# Family Camper / Trailer???



## deepsouthpaddler (Apr 14, 2004)

Hey Buzzards...

Looking for some input on pop up campers vs. travel trailers for camping with the family. Looking for something to sleep 2 adults and 2 kids, something I can pull with a truck (under 9000 lbs trailer weight), something that has cooking facilities inside as well as a toilet.

We've tent camped for the last couple of years, and the wife wants a little more comfort / warmth / options. We looked at a couple of the larger POP up campers (2 beds, kitchen, slide out dinette, mini toilet and shower), and some travel trailers in the 24-28 ft range. Both seem to fit the basic requirements, but I'm not sure what would be the best for us. We rented a pop up and an RV (same amenities as the trailers for the most part) last year to test them out.

We plan on using the set up for colorado camping, some National Park road trips to UT/AZ etc.

Any thoughts or experiences?

Thanks!


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## tczues (Mar 20, 2011)

I've had both and prefer the hard shell. Remember that bears can rip through the pop-ups. You can pull into any Walmart and sleep in the hard shell without having to do any work.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

tczues said:


> I've had both and prefer the hard shell. Remember that bears can rip through the pop-ups. You can pull into any Walmart and sleep in the hard shell without having to do any work.


 
Standard RV's are made with thin aluminum siding, 2x2's, and thin paneling. Bears could rip through them, too...they just don't know they can! :lol (yes, pop-ups make more inviting targets).

Completely agree on the "Walmart rationale".


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## deepsouthpaddler (Apr 14, 2004)

Good point. I wondered about the Popup cooking thing. Seemed like you were essentially cooking inside a tent, which sounds like a bad idea for bears etc.


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## Osprey (May 26, 2006)

My buddy has a hard side and he left some mini-snickers bars in there in the offseason….bear just pushed in one of the windows and destroyed the cabinets to get to them. The extra safety is really mental but I think most people get overly worked up over bears anyway.

With the hard side you get a bit of better insulation though and of course the ease of not having to setup. It’s just more convenient, especially if you are moving around. Depending on the size, you can get a little more privacy and separation of the sleeping areas with a travel trailer. Generally nicer kitchen and probably an oven, which a lot of popups won’t have. Much bigger fridge, and you can get to it. In a popup it’s generally not worth the hassle and I take a cooler.

On the other hand I do have a popup for about 13 years now. Easy to tow, I can take it down crappier roads and into places I don’t see travel trailers, if that’s your thing. It’s enough to get me off the ground and have a heater and sink and that’s about all I need. Except for coffee and hot water, I generally do end up cooking outside just to not smell up the inside and make the mess outside. Biggest drawback is if you are moving a lot like on a road trip, setup and takedown everyday is a little bit of a pain. Base camping though it’s great. With a couple people setup/takedown it is pretty fast. If storage is an issue the popup is easier as well. For the basics a popup is pretty nice, if the wife wants some more creature comforts and a bit more ease of everything, I’d go for the trailer.


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## El Flaco (Nov 5, 2003)

The other thing I've heard about hard sides is that it generally extends your seasonal comfort range by a month on either side. They hold heat better (duh) and will also better insulate against the noises of other campers. If you have young kids that go to bed early, that might be a big plus.


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## blutzski (Mar 31, 2004)

I went with a pop-up so that it could be stored in our 3rd car garage. This is great for convenience and weather protection. If you are going to be storing it outside or at a storage yard, I'd look into getting a hard side camper. All campers are pretty light, but popups seem to always have something breaking or ripping. A torn window is a major expense. I also went with the popup because they make high clearance versions that can be taken placed you can't take a travel trailer. 

Popup pros:
Store in your garage (less hassle getting away, weather protection)
Larger interior space once popped up. 
Off-road versions can get you back into areas where travel trailers can't go. 

Hard side pros:
Not as loud in wind
Better insulated
Better noise insulation
Better theft protection while away (but not by much)
Better bear protection 
Less moving parts to break.


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## raferguson1 (Feb 13, 2007)

*Towing concerns*

You did not say what you would be using to tow this, but if you have an SUV, it would be unwise to tow a 24 foot travel trailer, let alone a 28 foot.

The issue is the length of the wheelbase of the truck vs. the length of the travel trailer. The standard rule basically says if your Tow Vehicle has a wheel base of 110" you can tow a 20' trailer and you can safely tow one additional foot for every 4" of wheelbase. This issue is stability, not weight. 

Using that rule, to tow a 28 foot trailer, you would need a wheelbase of 142 inches. A Chevy suburban has a 130 inch wheelbase, so the rule says max 25 feet. Unless you have a full size pickup, I bet your wheelbase is shorter than 130 inches, maybe much shorter. So what is the wheelbase of your tow vehicle?

Can you tow longer trailers? Maybe, if you are careful and if it is set up exactly right, with 12% to 15% of the weight on the tongue, and appropriate equalizing hitch, etc. There are some exotic and expensive hitches that you could buy that would probably help. Once you start to exceed the rules of thumb, your margins start to disappear.

A friend of mine flipped a travel trailer and one of the large Ford Broncos in Wyoming on I-80, started going back and forth, (yaw) and it just kept getting bigger until it flipped. Basically the tail wagged the dog. This was his first trip with the trailer; he bought it in California but never made it home with it. He was not hurt, but the trailer and truck were totaled. I don't remember exactly how long the trailer was. The Broncos were pretty large vehicles, but the wheelbase was only 104 inches. Of course the wind blows in Wyoming, and lots of other places in the western US.

The salesmen will tell you that you can tow a 28 foot trailer with an SUV, but it is just unwise, even if you are within the weight limits.

Remember that the specifications for vehicles and trailers lie, using a stripped down unit. The unit you buy will be heavier, and therefore can carry and tow less. I bought a Ford F350 and was furious when I weighed it and found that I lost 800 pounds of carrying capacity compared to the brochure. You should put your SUV or truck on a scale before you buy any sizable trailer, and find out how big the lie was. Newer trailers have a sticker inside giving the actual weight, which is generally a lot more than the spec weight, even before you add water and personal equipment and people and boats and ......

Spend some time hanging out on the RVer forums before you try to tow a large travel trailer with an SUV. Ask this question there and you will be told in no uncertain terms that this is a very bad idea. Mountainbuzz is not really the place to ask towing questions, it is the place to ask boating questions.

Of course, if you have a full size pickup with extended cab or a long bed you probably can tow a 28 foot travel trailer, if you don't exceed the Gross Combination Vehicle Weight Restriction (GCVWR). If you don't understand what GCVWR really means, it is time to start reading.

My two cents.

Richard


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## deepsouthpaddler (Apr 14, 2004)

Not looking to pull a big trailer with an SUV. Original post says I want to pull something under 9000 lbs with a truck. Thanks for the caveats on towing capacity. 

Main thing I was interested to hear from buzzards was what they use (camper vs. trailer), why they like it, what the tradeoffs are etc.

I've done some digging around in the RV forums, but I'm interested in what boaters are doing with campers and trailers around Colorado since I'm a boater and will primarily use it in CO.

Thanks for the info to the folks that replied.


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## oarframe (Jun 25, 2008)

Maybe a Four Wheel Camper? Slide in like a hardshell camper, pop-up keeps the weight down, mileage up. Weighs about 1000-1500lb dry. Some models have a toilet. You'll want a granby or larger.
check this site out:
Wander the West -> Four Wheel Camper Discussions

Oh, and bears will go right thru a big motorhome as easy as getting in your house, tent or garbage can.


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## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

We sold our pop up this past year. It was luxo, and we loved it, but every year we used it less. The biggest hassle was that you had to basically load your gear 4 times. Once into the car, then at camp into the trailer. When you break camp do it backwards. It doesn't sound like that much, but it got to be just enough that we didn't use it often. We also cooked outside, and so there was minimal benefit to having a camper stocked with kitchen equipment, you still had to carry it out and back. It certainly was a drag camping for one night, and breaking camp the last morning seemed to take forever. Although I fondly remember the first time camping in it in a downpour, we were so stoked! Now we're back to tent camping, and have just bought a huge popup awning that suits us fine. Next time we'll get a hard side (if ever) so we can load our gear into it directly right at home.


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## steven (Apr 2, 2004)

CampLite All Aluminum Travel Trailer Overview by LivinLite

we got a 13' version of this. they will do custom work for you, like a steel basket on the tongue, or whatever. we are very happy with the purchase. not a fan of pop-ups for the family myself.....


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## Dave Frank (Oct 14, 2003)

Ian, did you get a truck? What is it?


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## g.soutiere (Jul 7, 2009)

Trail manor makes a hard sided pop-up. Looked easy to set up. Just another option. I use a class c, I love it got a good deal at century RV in longmont, they seem to be a good dealership.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

lhowemt said:


> We sold our pop up this past year. It was luxo, and we loved it, but every year we used it less. The biggest hassle was that you had to basically load your gear 4 times. Once into the car, then at camp into the trailer. When you break camp do it backwards. It doesn't sound like that much, but it got to be just enough that we didn't use it often. We also cooked outside, and so there was minimal benefit to having a camper stocked with kitchen equipment, you still had to carry it out and back. It certainly was a drag camping for one night, and breaking camp the last morning seemed to take forever.


If you like cooking outdoors and sleeping in the dry, I think a small teardrop or bread loaf trailer would be just the ticket. If you're resigned to tent camping, you often don't have a lot of headroom anyway, and the tent is only a dry, level place to sleep.

I've been thinking about building one with a low, flat roof that one could haul a raft on. The downside is that the raft would be up in the wind when towing.



g.soutiere said:


> Just another option. I use a class c, I love it got a good deal at century RV in longmont, they seem to be a good dealership.


Unless you like driving 45mph (in that case, get an older VW van and do it in style), the older Class C's bringeth the suck. Get the newest Class C you can afford--early 90's they got fuel injection and overdrive transmissions and can at least travel 65mph comfortably.

Class B's and conversion vans also look tempting.


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## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

You should see our tent! Family camper luxo-stand up model. We can always sleep in the van too if we want to be really dry. Part of the reason to get away from a camp trailer was the inability to bring the boat trailer, which sometimes brings a motorcycle. We looked at
Getting a folding trailer, but decided to simplify.


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## Avatard (Apr 29, 2011)

*Raft/Camping, Montana style!!*

here's how they do it in Missoula


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## deepsouthpaddler (Apr 14, 2004)

Yeah, getting a truck Dave. Thinking about a Tunda. Planning out some other toys too. 

I like the floating camper!


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## blutzski (Mar 31, 2004)

If you are family camping, I'd recommend against getting a motorhome or camper that slides into the bed of your truck. With a trailer you can run shuttle or take the truck somewhere while leaving the trailer and family back at camp. Once the kids are no longer camping with us, I'll go back to a Wildernest camper in the back of my truck. But for now, having a trailer as basecamp is the ticket. 

I'd also recommend against wasting floor space on a indoor toilet. The size of trailer you are talking about is small enough that you would be crapping in the kitchen. Most places you'll be camping have outhouses and the ones that don't you can easily bring a porta-pottie and set it up outdoors in a groover tent. On my Fleetwood Evolution E1, I also really like having the outdoor shower. This also saves space ont he interior. I just set up a Paha Que Tepee Aluminum, Blue next to the trailer for showers and the porta-pottie when needed. 

The other thing I like about the Evolution is the flatbed area at the front for bikes, firewood, trash, etc. You could probably even strap a motorcycle there.


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## LSB (Mar 23, 2004)

We have a nice one. 18' hardside w/ a bunch of comforts and we've hardly used it since the kids were in diapers. It's nice to have but it limits you to improved roads. We're sort of saving it for when the kids start traveling for sports. We got a giant tent that gets way more use.


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## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

blutzski said:


> The other thing I like about the Evolution is the flatbed area at the front for bikes, firewood, trash, etc. You could probably even strap a motorcycle there.


The Evolution is awesome for opening up available terrain, to respond to LSB's comment. We drug ours all over back-back-back roads. High clearance, real wheels/tires, it will go anywhere your rig can pull it.


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