# Most invaluable piece of gear...



## DoubleYouEss (Oct 4, 2011)

The launch date for my trip (Nov. 3) is fast approaching and the pre-trip stoke is starting to emanate more and more each day.

Well Buzzard's I pose to you this question:

*What is the single, most invaluable piece/item that you would bring on an early winter Grand trip? (Besides a drysuit.)
*


Discuss.


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## oarframe (Jun 25, 2008)

ok, I'll bite...but maybe some more info on your trip would help? If your going to be paddling that little yellow yak you won't have much room.

How about someone cute snuggly and warm?
Lots of alchohol
a flashlight and a good book (if #1 is unavailable)
A bigger boat would help.....


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## JustinJam (Mar 18, 2009)

Good whiskey.


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## salsasean (Apr 20, 2005)

A good Coleman Thermos to keep warm drinks accessible all day long. Oh and oversize muck boots that your down booties fit into. I was real happy last winter with both of those.


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## AZJefe (Jun 3, 2009)

> Good whiskey.


This.......^^^^^ 

November isn't that cold.


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## Avatard (Apr 29, 2011)

A permit


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## oarboatman (Jul 20, 2006)

Insulated overalls for camp


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## Ryanrugger (Jun 7, 2005)

Drysuit if you're in a kayak.


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## mtriverrat (Jan 29, 2012)

Avatard cracks me up. Besides the permit - a jet boil. Have it accessible - makes warming up after a swim much easier. Makes coffee happen faster in the morning too!


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## DoubleYouEss (Oct 4, 2011)

Oarframe, little bit more information on the trip. It's a 21 day, 13 person trip. For me this is my first Grand trip, but I have done many overnight rafting trips in my career. 

I'm pretty much set on the typical gear list, but I posed this question to the lurkers of the Buzz to see if there is one super,must have luxury item that you folks would stash in your drybag. I do like the muck boot idea and the thermos.


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## Andy H. (Oct 13, 2003)

This assumes you've got all the regular cold-weather boating stuff and are bringing lotion, good libations, gas log fire, decent camp amenities, etc. 

I second the thermos. Fill with hot tea in the am and it'll be gone by the time you get to camp whether anyone swims or not. I like a thermos of red Roobios tea dosed with honey and half and half so it's got some calories and fat to help keep the chill off.

Put one or two on each boat or, better yet, make them required equipment for everyone on the trip.


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## rivers2run (Jun 7, 2012)

Watershed dry bag. I flipped in the GC and my bag was upside down for 30 minutes, I opened it up and my bag was the only one that was completely dry. In November that would be essential. Also have a nice assortment of chalks or cams, sometimes it is handy for tying up a boat (Havasu), rescue, climbing etc.


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## Randaddy (Jun 8, 2007)

rivers2run said:


> Also have a nice assortment of chalks or cams, sometimes it is handy for tying up a boat (Havasu), rescue, climbing etc.


This has to be the least useful suggestion so far. How much shit do people need?

My suggestion is to take your clothing and personal accessories and cut the load in half. You'll be glad for the simplicity.

Also, good rain gear and a personal umbrella. Don't just assume your drysuit will be fine, you're going to want to get out of that thing! If it's raining in camp and you can put on shells and walk around with an umbrella you'll be happy exploring while everyone hides in their tent!


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## Osprey (May 26, 2006)

Luxury item I took down the grand that I don't normally take....full size pillow.


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## bigscottone (Jan 4, 2011)

antibiotics. i got an ear infection down there and was really glad i had a full course.


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## Avatard (Apr 29, 2011)

Zodi extreme 8170 and plenty of propane. Can get awfully funky in a drysuit. Nothing beats a hot shower


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## DoubleYouEss (Oct 4, 2011)

Any of the women of the Buzz have some input on female specific stuff? My girlfriend/fiancé will be going as well.


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## mrkyak (Jul 11, 2005)

River sauna.


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## basinrafter (May 12, 2009)

DoubleYouEss said:


> Any of the women of the Buzz have some input on female specific stuff? My girlfriend/fiancé will be going as well.


Personal pee bucket for by you tent so she won't have to go down to the river in the middle of the night.


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## Ryanrugger (Jun 7, 2005)

*Lots of luuuuuube!*

Lots and lots of luuuubbbbbe! Maybe a shamwow for cleanup. And yes the lube must be water soluble and biodegradable.



DoubleYouEss said:


> Any of the women of the Buzz have some input on female specific stuff? My girlfriend/fiancé will be going as well.


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## zbaird (Oct 11, 2003)

second the pee bucket for her and the zodi for the group. 

minimal schminimal its the grand, in the winter. heavy boats are good and clean, warm, happy ladies are better.


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## raftus (Jul 20, 2005)

Mucks boots.


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## Stiff N' Wett (Feb 18, 2010)

shrooms?


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## Avatard (Apr 29, 2011)

DoubleYouEss said:


> Any of the women of the Buzz have some input on female specific stuff? My girlfriend/fiancé will be going as well.


A better mate?


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## Osseous (Jan 13, 2012)

Warm and toasty camp footwear that doesn't require socks. Kind with built in fleece....


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## atom (Jan 14, 2004)

*Thermos*

Take 2 thermos. One for your tea or coffee in the morning and one for hot soup for lunch. A pee bottle for night and have a nalgene handy to put boiling water in. Slip it into your bag near your feet at night and it will be nice and toasty. Drink the cool water in the am. 
Have a fantastic time...


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## DoubleYouEss (Oct 4, 2011)

Stiff, I'm consciously ignoring the 'shroom posts, but thanks for the suggestion


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## SuicideKing (Sep 19, 2012)

Gary.


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## SuicideKing (Sep 19, 2012)

Have a great time and be safe..look forward to hearing how the trip went..


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## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

3 times as many baby wipes as normal. One thing many on my last trip learned was skin problems, lots of people got rashes and super angry skin from sitting wet on boats esp in splash gear. Anti fungals and strong steroid cream. Not otc stuff. Thank god we had a doc. A hard plastic pee bucket. Soft sided ones suck, use small ones that are like 1 gal. I'll look at my list later and update on any more fem stuff. Many more contacts than you think you'll need. I had a problem with mine and wish i had a pair for every 3 days AND rx sunglasses would have been the bomb. Keep a peli with handi essentials, lotion, contacts stuff, spare meds, sunglasses, etc etc thinking of stuff that you may find you need once the boat has rigged (toothbrush is nice there too).

Spare chair (breakage) , spare sleeping pad (even pacos can blow away) for the group.

+1 on both thermoses.


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## Badazws6 (Mar 4, 2007)

We did a winter trip a couple years back and it was well below average temps. The big luxury item we took was a mr heater and a extra 20 lbs of propane. Really nice to be able to get a tent HOT! I helped justify it by calling it a "safety" item if someone is going hyperthermic.


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## mrkyak (Jul 11, 2005)

River sauna


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## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

Looking at my notes the only other thing I can think of that is not typical advice is that I found cough medicine in capsules. Esp with a winter trip, where the odds of getting a cold may be higher, getting a bad cough in the canyon would suck. I didn't want to haul liquid cough syrup and was surprised to find the same med in capsules. 

Heat extra water in the AM on really cold mornings, in case any of your straps or other rigging is frozen, you can pour warm water over them to thaw.


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## briandburns (Jan 12, 2010)

lhowemt said:


> Heat extra water in the AM on really cold mornings, in case any of your straps or other rigging is frozen, you can pour warm water over them to thaw.


I was on a GC trip a couple of years ago when it got down to 9 degrees Farenheit overnight at Granite. 
All our rope knots, cam buckles, dry box latches, valve covers, etc. were frozen solid in the morning, but we found that simply pouring river water over them loosened them up enough to undo. Fortunately, it then warmed up nicely into the 40's during the day.


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## DoubleYouEss (Oct 4, 2011)

What are the groups thoughts/opinions on the small solar panels? I am considering picking one up for this trip and subsequent trips mostly for charging camera batteries.


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## MikeThulin1972 (Mar 23, 2012)

Don't do it... Unless you are really going to spend a extended period of time .. Like weeks.. I've worked with alot of different modal am they just don't make sense unless its a zombie apocalypse ... It would take you a week to charge a iPad with sunlight 24 hours a day for alot of systems..


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## Badazws6 (Mar 4, 2007)

I doubt you will see enough direct sunlight for solar panels to work worth a darn.


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## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

The lack direct sun is important to know ahead of time, possibly especially so for your gal. I've not done the grand in the winter, but a friend did it last Dec and said the sun rarely came over the rim walls. That is after Marble Canyon, which runs N/S and you get a little shot of sun every day. Once you turn West it's rare until later in the trip when the canyon widens. It can be hard for some people to stay warm without the sun.

Try a gel battery instead.


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## asleep.at.the.oars (May 6, 2006)

I got a GoalZero Nomad 7 Nomad 7 Solar Panel - Ultra Compact Power for You | See Goal Zero, it charges my phone as quickly as a wall outlet - or at least it did in the summer... We used it on an extended bike trip - lots of camping without power but in cell range. Go ahead and judge me, I know I did. With a little aiming I could get a charge pretty easily at 4 or 5 in the afternoon, which is probably pretty close to noon in November. 
Having a back up power source sure beats trying to figure out how to juggle multiple batteries and being extra careful with usage instead of just going nuts and spending some flatwater time with the panels out.


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## The_Jackal_Of_Gnar (Dec 14, 2010)

Whisky!


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## kennyv (Jan 4, 2009)

I did a trip down there in November and had reasonable temps. We were rolling boats at Diamond Ck. in shorts, but it can be cold. The two must-haves are a thermos and good shin high ditch boots. The best ones I've seen are called Extra-tuf and they're used in AK by fishermen. Flexible at the ankle with a felt liner of some sort, no steel toes or shanks to freeze your toes either. With the rise and fall of the tides you will be in these EVERYDAY. For camp shoes many on my trip used Ugg boots (even guys). I suppose they're great with plush lining and no holes to let in sand, but the worst part about wearing Ugg boots is having to tell your fiance that you're gay. Have fun.


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## little chief (Mar 24, 2012)

May sound weird, but a dust mask can be useful in camp. Can be windy and the silt blowing around some camps can wreck havoc on the lungs and make sleeping, even in tents difficult.


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## caspermike (Mar 9, 2007)

Paddle bong


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## heytat (Jan 5, 2009)

*Really?*



Randaddy said:


> This has to be the least useful suggestion so far. How much shit do people need?
> 
> My suggestion is to take your clothing and personal accessories and cut the load in half. You'll be glad for the simplicity.
> 
> Also, good rain gear and a personal umbrella. Don't just assume your drysuit will be fine, you're going to want to get out of that thing! If it's raining in camp and you can put on shells and walk around with an umbrella you'll be happy exploring while everyone hides in their tent!


 
Randaddy, 
I think it is really useful to have some cams or chocks for tying up in all kinds of places. Havasu, Matkat, luch spots in Marble Canyon, etc. They take up very little space, can be very useful in a rescue, and dont really have much of a downside as far as I can see. 

Im not sure what it is about the internet that makes people so judgemental and confrontational. Lighten up and contribute positive input.

Have a nice day.

S


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## oarboatman (Jul 20, 2006)

Time management and a group of people that are motivated to do what ever it takes and willing to get up in the dark. ... Think of it as a working vacation.


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## boatingbuss (May 22, 2008)

Extra tuff ditch boots and a couple hanky/bandanas (for your gal,wet underware at camp is the worst when it is cold). They dry off fast. My boyfriend thinks it is gross, but peeing in the river when it is cold out sucks!


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## DoubleYouEss (Oct 4, 2011)

I am intrigued by the number of folks recommending ditch boots. That is something that I never ever thought of.


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## shoenfeld13 (Aug 18, 2009)

Hard workers. I just got off of a great Grand Canyon trip and we had a lot of very hard workers who made the trip really easy. Everyone did their share.

I saw a couple boats with nuts, as in climbing nuts. I was told they were useful for a couple spots like Havasu and Matkat. There were so many pieces of fixed/stuck nuts with runners/slings on them that we had plenty of options to clip to. There is no need to bring your own gear.


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## David L (Feb 13, 2004)

DoubleYouEss said:


> I am intrigued by the number of folks recommending ditch boots. That is something that I never ever thought of.


Until you start bringing them you don't realize how useful they can be. I take them on every trip. One example is that they make it easy for my wife to step in the water to go get something off the boat, when she wants to keep her feet dry. She's not always keen on stepping onto and walking along the boat. Others usually ask if they can borrow them for the same reason.


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## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

Wellies work well too, and pack a bit smaller than irrigation biots.


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## sleighr (Nov 14, 2011)

A fist full of "hot hands" those shake up hand warmers.


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## Randaddy (Jun 8, 2007)

I second the jetboil and several wash cloths packed in a small steel bucket. The best reason for this is washing up in camp. Soaking your hands and feet, washing them with Dr. Braunner's, and then treating all of the little cuts and cracks with antibiotic ointment and fresh bandages will make a huge difference and prevent staph, which is getting more and more common down there. Bring an easily accessible personal first aid kit with LOTS of band-aids and tape. Not a "hope I don't need it" kit, but a "gonna use it daily" kit for this reason. If you don't have a small camp stove you can heat up the water on the fire - but doing this clean-up on your own time frame is very nice.


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## Randaddy (Jun 8, 2007)

Also if you're renting bring extra straps and then a few more!


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