# Anyone get busted for BUI?



## cheublein

I was just joking with a buddy of mine about this a little while ago. What is the law that got passed?


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## WestSlopeWW

cheublein said:


> I was just joking with a buddy of mine about this a little while ago. What is the law that got passed?


SENATE BILL 08-159

Basically says that anyone who is in control of a "vessel" (including rafts, kayaks, canoes, etc) is subject to a BUI...

Full version:
http://www.leg.state.co.us/clics/clics2008a/csl.nsf/fsbillcont3/4A9278BF2B038B3D872573DA007F9081?Open&file=159_enr.pdf


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## riverdoghenry

A lot of the rivers are on federal land and enforced by federal agencies. Will these be safe havens?


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## C-dub

Sounds like an absolute moneymaking bonanza. Wthout booze how is the paddle out on westwater tolorable? If you give your paddle to your designated boater buddy, are you alowed to continue boating hand style? Honestly, which legislator had their buddy injured(or dead) that prompted this? They ought to be banned from the comercial rafting circuit(no slight intended,point was non-boater).


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## hullflyer

I think that the bill was originally intended for motor-powered craft on lakes. I.E. it's all the front rangers fault! Hey just kidding, we're all in the proverbial same water craft now; doesn't matter what you are in if it's floating and in the public domain you are fair game. Watch it! It's not illegal if you don't get caught.


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## mania

if you mean Buzzing Under the Influence then yes I suspect most of our members are guilty.


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## J

That's not natural.


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## BTK.

damn it, time to start bringin' the kids.


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## benpetri

WestSlopeWW said:


> SENATE BILL 08-159
> 
> Basically says that anyone who is in control of a "vessel" (including rafts, kayaks, canoes, etc) is subject to a BUI...


So what if you're not in "control" of said vessel? Then they can't bust you right? I see a simple solution here. Leave the paddle at home and let the boat "control" itself. That way you're just the passenger!


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## Full_Tilt

They don't define Vessel at all in the statue, so the first couple of people that spot that in court are home free.


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## benpetri

C-dub said:


> Sounds like an absolute moneymaking bonanza. Wthout booze how is the paddle out on westwater tolorable? If you give your paddle to your designated boater buddy, are you alowed to continue boating hand style? Honestly, which legislator had their buddy injured(or dead) that prompted this? They ought to be banned from the comercial rafting circuit(no slight intended,point was non-boater).


Fortunately, Westy and Cataract are in Utah, so there you only have to brave Utah's strange liquor laws. Ruby-Horsethief however... 

Definately seems a stupid deal. They don't define "vessel" anywhere in the law, so in theory even operating a floating pool toy in a hot tub or swimming pool might qualify as "boating under the influence on the waters of the of colorado". Evidently they can "suspend" your "boating" privledges if convicted, and if caught boating under suspension, you can sentanced to up to 180 days in county jail.


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## FreeKickHero

Full_Tilt said:


> They don't define Vessel at all in the statue, so the first couple of people that spot that in court are home free.


Yeah, they don't define vessel in that particular bill, but in the first paragraph of page 12 of the bill the disclaimer of *FOR PURPOSES OF THIS SECTION, "VESSEL" HAS THE MEANING SET FORTH IN SECTION 33-13-102, C.R.S.*

And then in the complete Colorado Revised Statutes, under that particular section a vessel is defined as follows:

*33-13-102. Definitions*
(5) “Vessel” means every description of watercraft used or
capable of being used as a means of transportation of persons and
property on the water, other than single-chambered air-inflated
devices or seaplanes.

Pretty broad definition, but kayaks would fit in there.


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## yetigonecrazy

FreeKickHero said:


> Yeah, they don't define vessel in that particular bill, but in the first paragraph of page 12 of the bill the disclaimer of *FOR PURPOSES OF THIS SECTION, "VESSEL" HAS THE MEANING SET FORTH IN SECTION 33-13-102, C.R.S.*
> 
> And then in the complete Colorado Revised Statutes, under that particular section a vessel is defined as follows:
> 
> *33-13-102. Definitions*
> (5) “Vessel” means every description of watercraft used or
> capable of being used as a means of transportation of persons and
> property on the water, other than single-chambered air-inflated
> devices or seaplanes.
> 
> Pretty broad definition, but kayaks would fit in there.


yeah it sounds like the only thing that is safe would be a pool toy or an air mattress. my ducky alone has four chambers, so i would be pretty screwed......

watch out on the dolores is all i have to say. who cares if you have a groover or a firepan or anything else, you just better not drink or smoke


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## caverdan

FreeKickHero said:


> :
> 
> *33-13-102. Definitions*
> (5) “Vessel” means every description of watercraft used or
> capable of being used as a means of transportation of persons and
> property on the water, *other than single-chambered air-inflated*
> *devices* or seaplanes.
> 
> Pretty broad definition, but kayaks would fit in there.


Looks like tubing and Paco Pad floating are not covered. Maybe if we removed the baffles out of the old bail bucket boat.........


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## caspermike

a kayak technically is one tube.


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## Don

*BS!*

That's BS! I paddle better than I can walk.


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## riverdoghenry

*Got Paco?*



yetigonecrazy said:


> yeah it sounds like the only thing that is safe would be a pool toy or an air mattress.


Last summer on the Deso, I saw this guy from another party passed out drunk floating down on a big fat wide Paco Pad. He was not in control at all and made it about 7 miles.

His Paco would meet the "other than single-chambered air-inflated
devices" requirement. 

I would love to be in court observing a Paco Pad argument!


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## asleep.at.the.oars

Does anyone know what started this? I'm assuming some drunk idiot in a rowboat on Cherry Creek managed to challenge his ticket because he had neither motor nor sails, or was there more to it than that?

Time to start classifying your kayak as a seaplane...


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## Mr Beaver

If someone started a political action committee to change this, I might have to contribute.

Its just wrong.


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## tony

*other than single-chambered air-inflated*
*devices* or seaplanes.

Thank god I can still get drunk and pilot my sea plane around leagally!


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## Snowhere

*It is the flatlanders (front range) fault!*

Didn't a boat capsize or collide with another boat, a year or two ago on Chatfield Res and some people died? I remember alcohol being involved.


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## TakemetotheRiver

riverdoghenry said:


> Last summer on the Deso, I saw this guy from another party passed out drunk floating down on a big fat wide Paco Pad. He was not in control at all and made it about 7 miles.
> 
> His Paco would meet the "other than single-chambered air-inflated
> devices" requirement.
> 
> I would love to be in court observing a Paco Pad argument!


"Your honor, I was most certainly not operating a watercraft. I was on my inflatable sleeping pad which happens to float. I thought the middle of the river would be a nice place for a nap."


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## benpetri

Mr Beaver said:


> If someone started a political action committee to change this, I might have to contribute.
> 
> Its just wrong.


Probably a losing proposition. I can't imagine many pols getting behind an effort to rescind a law they just passed, especially when they'd be accused of making it easier to drink and boat. Mothers against drunk driving (MADD) is a considerably more powerful lobby than Kayakers in Favor of Floating Debauchery.

I am now curious what other sorts of crazy state laws might refer to "vessels" as defined by CRS 33-13-102. It still seems dumb to subject a Dagger Kingpin to the same laws as a speed boat with a 60 horsepower engine.


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## caspermike

i thinki know who started this one. where's yakgirl i think she is needing another turkey/ rescue.


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## Jensjustduckie

Do you think we could also use the argument of define "Operating"

I wouldn't consider what I do drunk on my raft "operating" but more like screwing around.


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## Mr Beaver

People that have seen me row my raft will guarantee I was not operating it.


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## Jiberish

I would be curious as to what your rights are in terms of determining if you are drinking. If you refuse a test in a car, they can take you to jail, and if you refuse a test their your driving license gets revoked, however if you refuse a test on the river, would it revoke your license? Then the matter would go to court, and would the officer say your boat was crossing lanes in the river? Also, if its a raft of many people, who would be the driver? 

I heard of people getting BUI's but most got dropped in court. I had a cop tell me technically a person operating a wheelchair drunk, and in public could get arrested for it.......

my 2 cents.....
Ben Guska


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## Eddy Groover

Last year my buddy and I floated through town on a booze cruise. It was in the middle of the summer when all of the floatillas of college students were out getting hammered. The sheriff's department was motoring upstream checking them and handing out tickets. Most of them were being ticketed for underage drinking, though. They left us alone, I think, because we had proper gear and we didn't raise a cold one while they passed us and of course we are a couple of old men. It definitely made us think!


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## mr. compassionate

FreeKickHero said:


> Yeah, they don't define vessel in that particular bill, but in the first paragraph of page 12 of the bill the disclaimer of *FOR PURPOSES OF THIS SECTION, "VESSEL" HAS THE MEANING SET FORTH IN SECTION 33-13-102, C.R.S.*
> 
> And then in the complete Colorado Revised Statutes, under that particular section a vessel is defined as follows:
> 
> *33-13-102. Definitions*
> (5) “Vessel” means every description of watercraft used or
> capable of being used as a means of transportation of persons and
> property on the water, other than single-chambered air-inflated
> devices or seaplanes.
> 
> Pretty broad definition, but kayaks would fit in there.


You could also blow the baffles in your raft then it would be a single chambered air inflated device.


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## mr. compassionate

caspermike said:


> a kayak technically is one tube.


Not air inflated though


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## calendar16

Sooooo...essentially what this law says is that a single air chamber is cool...

So I can tell said officer that my raft has blown baffles henceforth making it a single chamber and I will be on my way...

OK...still lame...

One time I visited Crested Butte when I was 10 years old and I saw in a store they had Pepsi can logo stickers (I was wondering at the time, huh?)...you simply could wrap the sticker around a can of beer and joula it's a Pepsi...maybe there is a new market for them stickers? hmmm.


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## WestSlopeWW

Does a blow-up doll have just one chamber, or is the head a separate chamber?


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## calendar16

WestSlopeWW said:


> Does a blow-up doll have just one chamber, or is the head a separate chamber?


Can't remember because I was pretty drunk last night...but I think the lips are a separate chamber?


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## iliketohike

just chiming in hear, and I didn't read the whole thread so give me a break if you guys already covered this, but...

if you got a BUI in a raft would all of the rafters get it, or would just the person in the guide's position get it? I mean a raft certainly isn't 'driven' the way a car or motor boat is, as there really isn't one person responsible for its trajectory (big word, impressed myself). Also, it's logical not to have people driving drunk because they can run into other people and kill them, but in the case of a raft on raft, or raft on kayaker collision (my favorite, hucking rafters) it's hardly going to amount to someone dying, or at least no more causal than a raft flipping. That's just the nature of the river, rafts run over kayakers.

This is too funny!


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## caseybailey

WestSlopeWW said:


> Just curious if anyone has got nailed for BUI after a few beers in their raft or kayak, and what the consequences were with Colorado's lovely new law passed last year?


So after alot of whining and psuedo lawyering, no one has still answered this guy's question. I also would like to know the answer. Are they really enforcing it or is it just on the books to see how many people they can get whining on the buzz?

Personally, I've been free from getting prosecuted on this one. 

p.s. I'm amazed at how many people don't know what runs are in CO (especially when they claim to have run them).


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## Snowhere

I would think you would have to have a serious incident where someone got seriously hurt for you to get busted on the river. I mean, come on, if you are rafting/kayaking class 4, how many of you are swilling beer? Now if you are doing just a float, a ranger would give you a hard time if you are three sheets to the wind anyway. So just don't get shitfaced and you should be O.K. 

I for one, will still be having a beer or two on the paddle out of Westwater. Then again, it is tough to drink much when you are paddleing into the wind!


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## WestSlopeWW

Snowhere said:


> I for one, will still be having a beer or two on the paddle out of Westwater. Then again, it is tough to drink much when you are paddleing into the wind!


Good thing Westwater is in Utah, because I will certainly be having more than one or two!


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## cracksmeup

A guy got busted for dui of a motorized bar stool (no joke) so it's all possible. I got busted for illegal thermal bathing once, I have that one framed on the wall! It all crack's me up.


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## WestSlopeWW

cracksmeup said:


> A guy got busted for dui of a motorized bar stool (no joke) so it's all possible. I got busted for illegal thermal bathing once, I have that one framed on the wall! It all crack's me up.


What the hell is "illegal thermal bathing"?


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## Snowhere

Yep, you got me on that, I was just saying that for the hell of it as we all know everyone brings a beer or two in one's kayak and more if one has a raft!


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## TakemetotheRiver

caseybailey said:


> So after alot of whining and psuedo lawyering, no one has still answered this guy's question. I also would like to know the answer. Are they really enforcing it or is it just on the books to see how many people they can get whining on the buzz?
> 
> Personally, I've been free from getting prosecuted on this one.
> 
> p.s. I'm amazed at how many people don't know what runs are in CO (especially when they claim to have run them).


On the Dolores last year, a river supposedly notorious for being tough on drinkers and smokers, Ranger Rick told us, as long as you're not messing around, I'm not gonna mess with you. The implication was that he could be a dick if he wanted to. I've heard the same from a Westwater ranger, a Deso/ Gray (both Utah, but still) ranger, and a town cop in Durango.

They are not going out of their way to enforce it, but it does tip the scales more in their favor if you are bothering them. The Deso ranger said he takes beer away all the time because people are being assholes. Fortunately he just offered to haul the trash we had accumulated so far out with him.


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## caspermike

i blame it all on yakgirl.


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## wreckoftheairefitzgerald

Looks like another unenforceable law to make it seem like they are doing some good. I would not worry about it.


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## Mr Beaver

yakgirls fault? WTF?

If Grif wasn't such a dick and would put down the can of Schitz and his turkey leg for a moment to save a life we wouldn't need laws like this one.


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## riverdoghenry

caseybailey said:


> p.s. I'm amazed at how many people don't know what runs are in CO (especially when they claim to have run them).


What my Deso trip wasn't in Colorado? No shit, really? Was I really drinking that much? Damn! But I swear Ray's Tavern can't be more than few miles outside Grand Junction!;-);-)


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## Smurfwarrior

I believe it might be more of an "after the fact" liability CYA issue and a method to point the finger of blame with more authority. Say a drunk boater needs rescue and rescue personnel drown in rescue attempt... in the past (before the law) how could they show that the boater is liable for the death? He was participating in a legal activity and lack of training on the rescuers part might be said to be the major factor, not the fact that the drunk boater should not have been in the situation to need rescue in the first place. Now, if that happens, bet your ass that the boater will be charged with BUI and that will be the nail in the coffin for the civil liability issue when the deceased rescuers family sue the boater for wrongful death. Despite the Eric Cartman "respect ma authoraTEE" attitude of some of the cops out there, no cop is going to want to be the test case in arresting an otherwise legal boater (that is, if the cop is not put on the spot to "do something" as a result of a third party complaint). Even if it came to that, there is a very good chance the prosecutor would either drop the case or allow it to be plead down to something very minor like disorderly conduct or public intoxication as he, most likely, won't want his name on the test case either. Then you get to the issue of field sobriety tests and how to conduct them on the river or in that environment in a timely fashion, dont even want to go there...


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## riverrat

benpetri said:


> It still seems dumb to subject a Dagger Kingpin to the same laws as a speed boat with a 60 horsepower engine.


You've never seen me paddle. 60 horses at least. jk. Wasn't there a guy who put a jet engine on the back of his kayak? Gotta cover him. Don't get shwasted and paddle your jet engined kayak...good law.


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## Rich

Let's just hope that whoever enforces the BUI law does not read the "beer on the river" thread on this forum. They could get the impresssion that boaters are a bunch of drunks!


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## DangerousDave

The National Park Service loved to hand these tickets out. I got one for possession of alcohol by a minor for blowing a 0.01 when NPS cops ordered our raft off the river in the Chattahoochee National Recreation Area near Atlanta. A few years later, one of my friends was floating in a raft and the park cops ordered them off the river. He was rather inebriated so he got hauled to jail for BUI. He had to sit in jail until the judge came in on Monday morning. He only got a small fine, but this was 15 years or so ago. I'm betting it would be a lot more these days. That may have been the way that NPS enforced laws in Georgia, so it might vary state to state. Luckily, I don't have any more experience to verify this one way or the other.


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## Grif

Mr Beaver said:


> yakgirls fault? WTF?
> 
> If Grif wasn't such a dick and would put down the can of Schitz and his turkey leg for a moment to save a life we wouldn't need laws like this one.


I was acquitted of that shit. Turns out yakgirl was all gussied up on designer drugs and thought the Gunny was the Golden Play Park. 
When she tried callin' for laws to be made, the judge just dismissed the whole affair. I hooked him up good afterward with my special homemade sauce.


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## stillkicken

I've seen a few drunkin idiots on the river where might have been a lot safer for them any everyone around them if they where in the drunk tank rather than on the river.

However, while yes, I suppose one could get busted on the river for BUI, I think you'd have to be really stupid about it. This is pretty much aimed at power boaters and jet skiers on lakes and other congested areas. The carnage and chaos at some of those places has gotten to the point where the LEOs needed a tool to get the drunks off the water before someone gets killed.


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## youngpaddler06

BTK. said:


> damn it, time to start bringin' the kids.


Thats a solid dd right there.


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## riverodent

stillkicken said:


> I've seen a few drunkin idiots on the river where might have been a lot safer for them any everyone around them if they where in the drunk tank rather than on the river.
> 
> However, while yes, I suppose one could get busted on the river for BUI, I think you'd have to be really stupid about it. This is pretty much aimed at power boaters and jet skiers on lakes and other congested areas. The carnage and chaos at some of those places has gotten to the point where the LEOs needed a tool to get the drunks off the water before someone gets killed.


Agreed. I've been floating the Ark for quite a few years and have yet to see anyone really wasted. Compare that to the class I-II canoe rivers in the Ozarks that see a thousand rented canoes a day, half of them piloted by drunken obnoxious jerks who have never paddled anything bigger than a ping pong ball. The rangers are thick as flies back there, lurking behind the trees dressed in camo with binos, and chase boats hidden all over the place. Lots of BUI's, lot of $$ for the county. But it appears to me that "most" boaters in real whitewater know better than to get on the river when they're truly impaired.


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## petes334

I would never drink and bout in white water. You are just asking for trouble then.


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## TakemetotheRiver

petes334 said:


> I would never drink and bout in white water. You are just asking for trouble then.


Sometimes drinking leads to a bout. Sometimes whitewater leads to a bout such as who had the best line or who wasn't paddling. But I agree drinking and bouting while in whitewater can be dangerous.


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## Riparian

I recall a bout of drinking on a boat once upon a time. But that was years ago, long before I embraced Zoroastrianism. _I think._


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## tango

they would never pass this law in west virginia. i don't think i've ever seen any private rafters who were sober taking out at mason's branch on the gauley.


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## Kendo

Is there any other way to really enjoy a class2 with beginners on a raft?It seems as as though the when and where might be a bit to complicated to actually govern, although the governed part needs to be remissed! dont just about all of our boats say "at your own risk"?

Or shall we all forget that fine print? i am just saying..


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## NoCo

riverodent said:


> Agreed. I've been floating the Ark for quite a few years and have yet to see anyone really wasted.


 im sober untill the paddle out of the gorge...ill be wasted by the park...of couse thats if im not driving shuttle...then back to the hill with me


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## jeremy_warner

that's completely ridonkulous.... If i couldn't have a beer while at my favorite play spot with a bunch of friends while listening to music i'd simply go crazy


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## SimpleMan

*Real Intel...*

Went to DUI class last time with a guy who got a BUI for paddling a canoe. Bad news for him was that they took his DRIVERS LICENSE just like they would for a DUI. It was in the city limits of FoCo.


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## yakkeranna

We had a guy get wasted at the put-in for Lodore and pass out on a raft that was docked at the put-in. He didn't get a bui but we did get our whiskey confiscated because it was an "open container".


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## shappattack

Had a guy last year on the remotest desert river in Oregon get a $500 ticket for some green while sitting in camp. Sneeky ass cops. These pigs where in the middle of now where, there aren't hardly any people of any kind. How they justify the tax dollars to make that trip I do not know? Luckily in Oregon possession is no longer a criminal offense.


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## scooby450

shappattack said:


> Had a guy last year on the remotest desert river in Oregon get a $500 ticket for some green while sitting in camp. Sneeky ass cops. These pigs where in the middle of now where, there aren't hardly any people of any kind. How they justify the tax dollars to make that trip I do not know? Luckily in Oregon possession is no longer a criminal offense.


Time to move to Oregon!


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## billfish

I first read about of this BUI stuff somewhere a few years ago. I'm not sure where the article was published but it was refering to the laws reguarding alcohol consumption while boating being changed in national parks (Jackson Lake in Grand Teton national park was specifically mentioned and the article may have been in the local paper). One of the main issues was liability. If a park ranger stopped someone for some kind of bad behavior on the water (hard to imagine but it happens) and the ranger suspected that the driver of the motorized boat was under the influence and did not remove that person from the water, could the park service be held liable if that person went on to injure or kill another boater, swimmer or himself?

The natural progression of law (ever expanding and refining itself to not leave anyone out) is to next include open container laws and add non motorized boats on any federal waters be it river or lake, national park, forest or BLM. And then comes the states. I'd be intersted in hearing more as I just picked up a Deso permit for this spring.


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## twmartin

Fellow paddlers: I am NOT your attorney.

Some food for thought:

1) Any boater is entitled to request that a blood test or a breath test be administered, this would involve a trip to a police station or a hospital for the use of an intoxilyzer machine or a blood draw. As there is little legal background for this new law the courts would look to DUI law for guidance. DUI law says that if a cop does not provide a blood or breath test the case may be dismissed as a driver has the right to a chemical test if the driver does not refuse. I would LOVE to see the rangers in Ruby/Horsethief cut short their patrol and take somebody all the way back to the Fruita police station. REMEMBER, the test MUST be given within 2 hours. This would be a wee tough in the middle of the Dolores canyon.

2. If you are convicted you lose your priviege to operate a Vessel. This could ruin the income of many professional guides. There is an argument the revocation only applies to Colorado so it might not screw up money already invested in a multi day trip in another state, but don't count on it. It would also end your paddling season. Take NOTE that boating while your privilege to operate a VESSEL is revoked has a mandatory jail sentence that gets significantly longer each time they catch you.

3. If you are arrested for BUI or Boating under Revocation, be aware that the donut jockeys will take you to jail and release you at the jail, many miles from your car and your very expensive boat filled with your very expensive gear.

4. Be aware that "actual physical control" in the DUI statue applies to parked vehciles with the engine off but the keys in the ignition. So a ranger pulling up on your camp and finding you sitting on your boat tied to shore could ticket you.

If anybody actually gets charged feel free to contact me. I would LOVE to take this on.


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## samsara

Or better yet, save the drunkeness for the shore after the boats are unloaded. Hard to fathom I know, but just a thought.


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## cemartin

Fuck all these worthless god damn cops. What a waste of taxpayer money.


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## RiverCowboy

*Court admissible screenings*

It sounds like although this gentleman is not your attorney, he may well be one in his Mon-Fri life. Item #1 is exactly where my head is at, and to edify further: an intoxilyzer at the station or a blood draw are the only court admissible screenings. The PBT, or portable breath tester, not court admissible. It only provides the LEO with evidence to justify arresting you and asking you to consent to admissible screening. So, if someone asks you to blow into their little thingy on the water or at the ramp, I would suggest that you respectfully refuse (because although the reading is inadmissible in court, the LEO can testify that it lead him to believe you were intoxicated). I would probably suggest that in any conversation with an LEO, you respectfully refuse to answer any questions without an attorney present (say hello, nice day, whatever. When he asks if you've been enjoying a few frosty beverages, respectfully refuse).



twmartin said:


> Fellow paddlers: I am NOT your attorney.
> 
> Some food for thought:
> 
> *1) Any boater is entitled to request that a blood test or a breath test be administered, this would involve a trip to a police station or a hospital for the use of an intoxilyzer machine or a blood draw. As there is little legal background for this new law the courts would look to DUI law for guidance. DUI law says that if a cop does not provide a blood or breath test the case may be dismissed as a driver has the right to a chemical test if the driver does not refuse. I would LOVE to see the rangers in Ruby/Horsethief cut short their patrol and take somebody all the way back to the Fruita police station. REMEMBER, the test MUST be given within 2 hours. This would be a wee tough in the middle of the Dolores canyon.*
> 
> 2. If you are convicted you lose your priviege to operate a Vessel. This could ruin the income of many professional guides. There is an argument the revocation only applies to Colorado so it might not screw up money already invested in a multi day trip in another state, but don't count on it. It would also end your paddling season. Take NOTE that boating while your privilege to operate a VESSEL is revoked has a mandatory jail sentence that gets significantly longer each time they catch you.
> 
> 3. If you are arrested for BUI or Boating under Revocation, be aware that the donut jockeys will take you to jail and release you at the jail, many miles from your car and your very expensive boat filled with your very expensive gear.
> 
> 4. Be aware that "actual physical control" in the DUI statue applies to parked vehciles with the engine off but the keys in the ignition. So a ranger pulling up on your camp and finding you sitting on your boat tied to shore could ticket you.
> 
> If anybody actually gets charged feel free to contact me. I would LOVE to take this on.


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## CO.rafter

Todays SUMMIT DAILY NEWS has a small article about this weekend coming up, I'm guessing Saturday, Sunday June 25th & 26th. The enforcers will be out on the rivers. They are calling it "Operation Dry Water". Go to, Breckenridge & Summit County Colorado | SummitDaily.com News look in the bottom left of the homepage. They say "there will be arrests made this weekend"


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## slavetotheflyrod

A little more food for thought...

Every boater is entitled to refuse any field sobriety test, or other related search. IF THEY HAD PROBABLE CAUSE THEY WOULDN'T BE ASKING.

Which brings me to another point -

Don't give em probable cause. - If you're not openly consuming and not acting inebriated they don't have probable cause to search without consent or effect an arrest. Put a coozie on your can, keep your cocktails in plastic cups, keep empties and bottles out of sight, say as little as possible. 

Cops like to ask lots of questions - always give yes or no answers and nothing more whenever possible. It's pretty tough to slur a yes or no.


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## Avatard

Noosuuur!


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## raftus

Also remember that the Fifth Amendment of the Constitution protects you against self incrimination. If an Officer asks you how many drinks you've had you have no legal responsibility to answer. The Officer cannot use your refusal to answer as probable cause or to build probable cause. 

The Standardized Field Sobriety Tests are voluntary - as is the portable breathalyzer. Usually these tests are used by the officer to establish probable cause to arrest and charge you. Rarely is it in your benefit to agree to these tests. There is no legal consequence to refusing them. However refusing the test (either breathalyzer or blood draw) at the police station/jail/hospital can result in your license being revoked for one year administratively. Even if your case gets tossed out in court the revocation is still there.

P.S. I'm not a lawyer, this isn't legal advice - just my understanding of Colorado Law.


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## cmike1

slavetotheflyrod said:


> A little more food for thought...
> 
> Every boater is entitled to refuse any field sobriety test, or other related search. IF THEY HAD PROBABLE CAUSE THEY WOULDN'T BE ASKING.
> 
> Which brings me to another point -
> 
> Don't give em probable cause. - If you're not openly consuming and not acting inebriated they don't have probable cause to search without consent or effect an arrest. Put a coozie on your can, keep your cocktails in plastic cups, keep empties and bottles out of sight, say as little as possible.
> 
> Cops like to ask lots of questions - always give yes or no answers and nothing more whenever possible. It's pretty tough to slur a yes or no.


Speaking as someone who gave up booze years ago I find it pretty easy to tell if someone has been drinking, even when they are maintaining fairly well. It can be subtle, but noticeable. You don't have to be stumbling down shitfaced.


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## Avatard

cmike1 said:


> You don't have to be stumbling down shitfaced.


It only helps if you are


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## dgosn

I can only imagine the rangers would be looking at the uber popular rivers, Ark, Upper C, RH, etc..... 

I also echo the idea of refusing a field sobriety test and asking for a blood test. I know 2 people that avoided a DUI because of the extra time afforded to them waiting to get to a hospital for a blood draw. Even if you are in the clear ask for a blood test, tie up the ranger for a few hours, make him fill out tons of paperwork at the hospital, and he wont be bothering other boaters. Better yet does anyone know if you get to the hospital and have less than .08BAC can you demand to be taken back to where they got you since you aren't guilty? Would they stop at a liquor store along the way so you can get your pre-ranger buzz back?


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## cake

There's an article in USA Today about it too. While it was geared more towards motorboaters(hehe) it said that the police and rangers would have judges on site to get search warrants for blood tests. 

I think the best advice is to stay under the radar- Put your beer in your nalgenes and your mixed drinks in your camelbacks. Most of you river rats here seem like the type that wouldn't mind sacrificing a bladder for this kind of thing..


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## pinemnky13

The judges will be in Texas according to the article:
States crack down on drunken boating - USATODAY.com

Just play it smart at the put in and on the river and at take out. Go get bomed after running back to camp


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## mlmercer

weekend forecast


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## Sagebrusher

Sometimes the river rangers are buzzed, too


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## Tele til yoor Smelly

Are you guys really boating *drunk*? I always have a beer by my side, and probably drink a sixer over the course of a day before getting to camp, but I doubt I ever get close to .08 on the river. Now don't ask about in camp- that's why I think most river accidents happen on shore . . .

Point being, don't confuse open container laws with BUI. Open container laws when they apply (like in some city river segments) is just a ticket (in CO anyway), no big whoop. An actual B/DUI would be a bigger deal, although it probably wouldn't even be unless someone got hurt because of it. I know a guy who got a BUI in CO- in his case biking under the influence. He fell off his bike running a red light in a left turn in front of a cop car. He got a deferred judgment, so he had to pay some court costs but otherwise suffered no consequences like a DUI would have been. I really wouldn't worry about this much.


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## Waterwindpowderrock

if a river ranger stops you & you refuse a breathalizer... how does that work? They bring you to the takeout on their boat, bring you to the hospital, then bring you back to where you were?

Seems an odd situation. I'd like to know how they actually deal with this on the river.

also... is it THAT hard to not be drunk when boating?? REALLY?


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## powdahound76

Boating with BAL >0.08 = Darwin was right. Having had direct access to portable breathalyzers several years ago and knowing how I feel at 0.08 I should not even be near the water, let alone trying to paddle a boat. Unless you are a professional, (measured by the ability to walk and talk with relative clarity with a BAL above 0.350) please keep the beer/drinks to a minimum until you are out of your boat for the day.
Dont get me wrong, I love beer, and whiskey, and vodka, and did I mention beer?


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## catwoman

Let' all keep in mind that in the eyes of the law you are drunk and driving with BAC of 0.05, which equates to a DWAI. DWAI has serious consequences, only slightly less onerous than DUI. A 0.05 is about 1 beer every two hours. And, the law doesn't care if you can walk a straight line, say the alphabet backwards or how you feel. It all comes down to BAC. I suspect all the same rules apply to BUI, whether the B stands for biking or boating.

That said, I really like beer.


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## CUBuffskier

If you feel too buzzed to boat then just tether up to a boater that isn't and let him guide you down.


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## Jensjustduckie

This thread is 2 years old, the title is *Anyone get busted for BUI? *and no one has said "I have" so far. 

Until I actually see LEO on the river (We wait for the float part before imbibing) I think I'll just not worry about this issue.


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## WestSlopeWW

Jensjustduckie said:


> This thread is 2 years old, the title is *Anyone get busted for BUI? *and no one has said "I have" so far.
> QUOTE]
> 
> Yep. Two years go by and no answer. No news is good news. Other than the people who chime in about how bad it is to drink while rafting. These people obviously have never floated a desert river where there is 20 miles of flat water between rapids. Its literally impossible not to drink a beer. Or fifteen beers for that matter. Luckily most of the rivers I float are in Utah where this dumbass law doesnt apply anyways.


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## badswimmer

Everyone Binge Drink & Boat= Darwinism Revived= Tranquil Solitude(my precious,haha)& Teetotaler/Stoner Domination, dammit, teetotaler's suck as bad as drunken citiots. Save the Planet and Kill Ourselves, you go first, especially if you're a LEO!!!

Unfortunately huck-n-hitch runs may take longer.....


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## slavetotheflyrod

Waterwindpowderrock said:


> if a river ranger stops you & you refuse a breathalizer... how does that work? They bring you to the takeout on their boat, bring you to the hospital, then bring you back to where you were?
> 
> Seems an odd situation. I'd like to know how they actually deal with this on the river.
> 
> also... is it THAT hard to not be drunk when boating?? REALLY?


It works like this - 

River ranger and/or LEO: How much have you had to drink today?

Boater "Not a drop, sir."

Ranger/LEO "Would you mind stepping over here and taking a few quick field sobriety tests for me?"

Boater: "Yes I would mind actually, see I'm on this river trip here and I'd hate to ruin it by submitting to you're little rigged dog and pony show, but thanks for asking and have a nice day officer."

Ranger/LEO : "Wait, what."

Boater: "You heard me, I'm refusing to consent to any voluntary searches, and if it's not too much trouble I'd like my I.D. back and I'd like to be on my way."

Ranger/LEO : "Uh, well then I guess that's you're right"

Boater : [under breath, of course] "Fuckin' right it is."


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## pinemnky13

slavetotheflyrod said:


> It works like this -
> 
> River ranger and/or LEO: How much have you had to drink today?
> 
> Boater "Not a drop, sir."
> 
> Ranger/LEO "Would you mind stepping over here and taking a few quick field sobriety tests for me?"
> 
> Boater: "Yes I would mind actually, see I'm on this river trip here and I'd hate to ruin it by submitting to you're little rigged dog and pony show, but thanks for asking and have a nice day officer."
> 
> Ranger/LEO : "Wait, what."
> 
> Boater: "You heard me, I'm refusing to consent to any voluntary searches, and if it's not too much trouble I'd like my I.D. back and I'd like to be on my way."
> 
> Ranger/LEO : "Uh, well then I guess that's you're right"
> 
> Boater : [under breath, of course] "Fuckin' right it is."


 
Boater, umm my ID is in the truck at take out and excuse me cause I need to poop.

Last year on the Arkansas they were hanging at zoom and giving lectures on boating and drinking but not asking people to blow into their little penis. Just stay you boat and dont let em get on it to talk to you, the boat is a personal spot and they have no right to get on it unless you give them permission to board.
just my 3 cents


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## Waterwindpowderrock

slavetotheflyrod said:


> It works like this -
> 
> River ranger and/or LEO: How much have you had to drink today?
> 
> Boater "Not a drop, sir."
> 
> Ranger/LEO "Would you mind stepping over here and taking a few quick field sobriety tests for me?"
> 
> Boater: "Yes I would mind actually, see I'm on this river trip here and I'd hate to ruin it by submitting to you're little rigged dog and pony show, but thanks for asking and have a nice day officer."
> 
> Ranger/LEO : "Wait, what."
> 
> Boater: "You heard me, I'm refusing to consent to any voluntary searches, and if it's not too much trouble I'd like my I.D. back and I'd like to be on my way."
> 
> Ranger/LEO : "Uh, well then I guess that's you're right"
> 
> Boater : [under breath, of course] "Fuckin' right it is."



yeah... and you miss the part where not allowing a breathalyser revokes your license for a year. Also, it's fun to talk smack on a forum, but the LEO has rights too, like the right to remove your azz, and bring you to get a blood test. That's the part I'm curious about.

I'm no puritan, I'm just wondering what the ACTUAL reality is. Btw, I've refused a search before. I was young, didn't smoke pot or anything, and told him I wasn't consenting, explained why (respectfully, I had been searched once before, they found nothing, and didn't replace anything they tore apart, so I told him no) and he let me go on my way.

The draw of boating flat water... must be like biking on the road. Something I'll just never understand I guess.


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## pinemnky13

they can only ban you from boating for 3 months it does not affect your drivers license


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## Waterwindpowderrock

pinemnky13 said:


> they can only ban you from boating for 3 months it does not affect your drivers license



ok, so totally different then. That's good. "ban you from boating" That's actually kinda funny!!!!


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## pinemnky13

note to self, if I'm gonna get a bui get it in december


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## powdahound76

Does that ban me from pool sessions too? That is my favorite place to kayak anyways. Love that chlorine aroma and knowing that 50% of what I am rolling in is pee. I was gonna say kid's pee, but who doesn't love to pee in the pool? And the pool is always flat water, I hate big wave trains, subbing through holes in my playboat, boofing in my creeker, hell, I might even take my raft to the pool, but I need double bungy flip-lines before I can do that safely, you know just in case some sober a-hole makes a wave that flips my raft. How drunk can I be in the pool and still be safe? Oop, gotta go get more coffee!


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## slavetotheflyrod

Waterwindpowderrock said:


> yeah... and you miss the part where not allowing a breathalyser revokes your license for a year. Also, it's fun to talk smack on a forum, but the LEO has rights too, like the right to remove your azz, and bring you to get a blood test. That's the part I'm curious about.
> 
> I'm no puritan, I'm just wondering what the ACTUAL reality is. Btw, I've refused a search before. I was young, didn't smoke pot or anything, and told him I wasn't consenting, explained why (respectfully, I had been searched once before, they found nothing, and didn't replace anything they tore apart, so I told him no) and he let me go on my way.
> 
> The draw of boating flat water... must be like biking on the road. Something I'll just never understand I guess.


You're a little confused here, duder. 

You have every right to refuse a field sobriety test and a portable breathalyzer and cannot be penalized for doing so. 

Now, if you're placed under arrest for suspicion of BUI you can be penalized for refusing to take a certified Breathalyzer (usually at the police stn or local hospital).


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## Waterwindpowderrock

slavetotheflyrod said:


> Now, if you're placed under arrest for suspicion of BUI you can be penalized for refusing to take a certified Breathalyzer (usually at the police stn or local hospital).


Exactly my point. You CAN refuse if you want, then they CAN then place you under arrest & remove you from the river. The logistics of which are what I'm wondering about. Curiosity, yes, confusion, not so much. duder...

SO, if you refuse a test, I'd recommend doing it in a less smartass way then what you suggested, as some people in the LE field just LOOOOOVE making life hell for someone who wants to be a smartass about their "rights".


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## slavetotheflyrod

Waterwindpowderrock said:


> Exactly my point. You CAN refuse if you want, then they CAN then place you under arrest & remove you from the river. The logistics of which are what I'm wondering about. Curiosity, yes, confusion, not so much. duder...
> 
> SO, if you refuse a test, I'd recommend doing it in a less smartass way then what you suggested, as some people in the LE field just LOOOOOVE making life hell for someone who wants to be a smartass about their "rights".


You're still missing the point, duder. 

The point is this: Without a field sobriety test (which is 100% optional) and/or a handheld brethalyzer (again, 100% optional), it's pretty much impossible for an LEO to develop the probable cause to make an arrest for suspicion of BUI, unless of course you're totally obviously wasted. 

If you're smart about it the logistics shouldn't mean fuck-all since it won't be your ass going to the clink in the first place.


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## pinemnky13

Well anybody get popped on this weekend of operation dry water?


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## Waterwindpowderrock

slavetotheflyrod said:


> You're still missing the point, duder.
> 
> The point is this: Without a field sobriety test (which is 100% optional) and/or a handheld brethalyzer (again, 100% optional), it's pretty much impossible for an LEO to develop the probable cause to make an arrest for suspicion of BUI, unless of course you're totally obviously wasted.
> 
> If you're smart about it the logistics shouldn't mean fuck-all since it won't be your ass going to the clink in the first place.



Ok, I'll give you that. I'm making the assumption (obviously NOT a given fact) that the LEO has observed by this point something which gives him/ her cause to believe that the operator IS under the influence. In a vehicle anyhow, this probable cause is pretty darn easy to create. "well judge, he was ROWING erratically... he even crossed the center of the river!"

Either way, good that this seems to be a pretty much theoretical conversation, but if someone really IS wasted at the oars, and endangering his friends... this law being enforced sure wouldn't break my heart.


Being smart about it will do you good... being a smart ass about it, likely to do you a pretty solid dis-service.


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