# Who be Roomin & Doomin?



## Blade&Shaft (May 23, 2009)

Ran Westy yesterday around 12.5k and there was a blue cat tied up in the ROD along with a bunch of gear swirlin around in the eddy. Definitely a full on level with a massive impenetrable eddy fence and the waves/holes/hydraulics were game on. I’d love to hear the story on who/what/when/why/how… the ranger at the put in said a boat had previously been in there for a minute and he had gone up with a snout and 90hp Merc to get it out. Sounds like ROD is doing a one-in-one-out policy.

Fess up, let’s hear the story!


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## tBatt (May 18, 2020)

Sounds like a different incident, but this just came up on the Westwater facebook page.


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## richp (Feb 27, 2005)

Westwater rangers have a high power snout now? 

If so, boy have times changed. When I was there, a 5hp Honda was all they trusted us with, clamped on the back of a 16' patrol raft.


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## Blade&Shaft (May 23, 2009)

I was surprised a snout was the craft of choice for uprunning, and still think getting into, or moreso out of ROD would be sketch at current level, regardless of type of boat


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## richp (Feb 27, 2005)

We had a rescue a decade or so ago where the NPS jet boat from Canyonlands NP was trailered up to Cisco, for an uprun to the Room.


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## Granite (Dec 2, 2012)

richp said:


> Westwater rangers have a high power snout now?
> 
> If so, boy have times changed. When I was there, a 5hp Honda was all they trusted us with, clamped on the back of a 16' patrol raft.


I believe they were doing that in one of DNR's boats.


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## Roseldo (Aug 27, 2020)

I think I'm speaking for all the non-facebookers that anyone who has info should please share!


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## Blade&Shaft (May 23, 2009)

Yea true that I’m not much on the social medias outside of here


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## Dave Frank (Oct 14, 2003)

The snout from Cataract gets the call, and can go upriver from Cisco, at least Kykler used to do that 20 years ago. 

One of my first raft trips was a private through Westy at 14K, in ‘94. We were cocky and ran right down the gut with predictable results. After righting and regrouping, the exit move involved roping the boat as far upstream via the low cliff, then jumping in to the stern to offer a rear paddle assist for the rower As they pull hard. I was hooked on whitewater and Westwater ever since.

I’ve had to ferry my kayak into the ROD to provide similar rope assist to an oar boat on a subsequent trip. It is not an easy move as level approach or exceed 10K. Pretty easy ferry at 5 to maybe 7 K

The splat wall/ pillow on the Rock of Shock is quite intimidating. I’ve also heard of boats der-rigging and carrying down steam and lowering back. I have no proof of that, but what a PIA that would be! Abandoned boats definitely happen there.


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## richp (Feb 27, 2005)

Story is that after Kyler left BLM and went to the NPS as a Cat ranger, he once took their big jetboat up in there for a rescue. With the boat only a few feet shorter than the Room is wide, he somehow managed to turn it around, and return to Cisco.


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## luke c (Apr 25, 2005)

The blue cat is still tied up in the room of doom! Some other stuff floating around also. 😂


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## Blade&Shaft (May 23, 2009)

Awesome update - What’s the whole status/rules/regulations per Coast Guard about claiming abandoned water craft?


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## westwatercuban (May 19, 2021)

Blade&Shaft said:


> Awesome update - What’s the whole status/rules/regulations per Coast Guard about claiming abandoned water craft?


Looks like it varies by state. Most states leaning towards no. But you could in theory put a salvage lean for removing it. At least in you can in most states I saw. I couldn’t find anything for Utah or Colorado specifically. I doubt blm would approve. But I guess it depends on what the legitimate owner says.


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## funrivers (May 14, 2008)

Blade&Shaft said:


> Awesome update - What’s the whole status/rules/regulations per Coast Guard about claiming abandoned water craft?


It’s not abandoned. Was part of a rescue. BLM is aware of it and watching it. Waiting for water level to drop so they can recover. Please respect and don’t mess with it.


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## Blade&Shaft (May 23, 2009)

It was more a theoretical question my daw, a conversation starter… I personally have no intentions of trying to get a cancellation permit and “messing” with that shit


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## Will Amette (Jan 28, 2017)

Blade&Shaft said:


> It was more a theoretical question my daw, a conversation starter… I personally have no intentions of trying to get a cancellation permit and “messing” with that shit


If someone comes to help you extract a boat and asks if it's a "salvage operation," say no. Maritime salvage law says that if someone helps recover a boat or cargo, the rescuer is entitled to a reward equal to the property rescued. This assumes the river you're on is subject to maritime law.


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## richp (Feb 27, 2005)

Aw come on... What ever happened to good will and helping your fellow boater? 

It's one thing if you find a nice oar embedded since last season in a mudbank with no identifying information. Fair booty.

But if there ever was a time when that quaint old Golden Rule applied, this surely would be one of them. If it was your gear of considerable value, wouldn't you want some capable and considerate person/s able to extricate it, to make every effort to return it to the rightful owner?


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## Will Amette (Jan 28, 2017)

richp said:


> Aw come on... What ever happened to good will and helping your fellow boater?
> 
> It's one thing if you find a nice oar embedded since last season in a mudbank with no identifying information. Fair booty.
> 
> But if there ever was a time when that quaint old Golden Rule applied, this surely would be one of them. If it was your gear of considerable value, wouldn't you want some capable and considerate person/s able to extricate it, to make every effort to return it to the rightful owner?


My guess is that's the most likely outcome from most people I meet on the river. I have met a few though... 

My post was just a warning to anyone who had an offer of assistance; there's certain words that mean more than you might think.


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

richp said:


> Story is that after Kyler left BLM and went to the NPS as a Cat ranger, he once took their big jetboat up in there for a rescue. With the boat only a few feet shorter than the Room is wide, he somehow managed to turn it around, and return to Cisco.


Snout won't make it up westwater, Sock it to me would be the stopper. The NPS jetboat on the other hand has done it 3 times that I can think of, one of those times was with Kyler Carpenter at the helm, and almost a 4th, but a tag along guide got the boat out before the jetboat launched. Pissed me off as I was going to get to go along for the ride, that didn't happen LOL.

Jeff Arbon with Utah State Parks takes his snout down all the time, and is on call for any rescue if he's available. He's a hell of a boatman. Westwater doesn't own a snout, Jeff uses USP's all the time down there for work trips and such. He has a small aluminum jet boat he runs too, but never heard of him uprunning the rapids in WW.. Western used to launch a snout regularly, but hadn't seen them there with one in a while.


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## craven_morhead (Feb 20, 2007)

I flipped my 16' round boat in Skull shortly after the Cat arrived in the Room. Started my move too early, paused, and then restarted too late. Took a deep, spooky swim in the seam/eddy fence and resurfaced right in front of the rock of shock and was typewrightered into the Room. I caught myself on the blue cat, and I think I passed its owner while trying to get up to the cliff wall to signal to my friends I was okay. Two other rescue operations were in the works by the time I got to the top of the cliff wall. Exciting day.


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## whip (Oct 23, 2003)

I know of a group that de-rigged and rope hauled an oar framed raft out in the 80's. Re-inflated and continued.


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## Pinchecharlie (Jul 27, 2017)

Now…this something a new guy would say/ask…but when I was on the gauley the creature craft guys where sticking them selves in the hole at sweet falls and just getting surfed indefinitely. Granted they are different crafts but they had these little parachutes they’d throw in with a line and it would help drag them out. They where actually sailboat sea anchors or something the sailboat guys use for rough seas ?? Any way if you just had to get out of the room of doom and you just had too,would something like that work? Of course it’s dangerous and there’s a line in the water etc etc but would the main current carry the boat out ?


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

One of the only ways to get a boat out of the room over 6K, past carrying it up and over, is to set up a line across the river to the scout, pull the boat up to the apex of the eddy line, as close to skull hole as you can get, and pendulum it out. Have had to do that at least 5 times, maybe more when people hiked out and left their boat in the room. Call in the morning, Hey, listen, can you guys get my boat out of the room... Always thought, why didn't they just come back to the ranger station and ask "Hey, can you guys HELP me get my boat out of the room".. Either way, it was an efficient way to remove a boat when it can't be rowed out.


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## Preston H. (Jun 25, 2008)

I was in the river left eddy after Skull when Craven flipped and watched the whole thing. He did in fact pass Blue Cat Guy on the hike out. Blue Cat Guy was trying to yell things to me from the top of the hill downstream of the Room, but of course there's some rapids in there that render such methods of communication ineffective. So his story floated away like a fart in the wind. Anyway, there was a boat tied up river right after the hike so guess that was his group. Another group member signaled to me from up on the hill that they were OK. I think Blue Cat Guy's boat is a standard JPW El Tigre. This event may end up as another testament to the durability and craftsmanship of JPW products, which perform even of their owner does not. 

Scuttlebutt at the ranger station on Sunday, 6/19 was that Blue Cat Guy forgot his keys and wallet down in his boat and could not make the trip back down there to get them, and that Bob hiked down for them the next day or so. I have not confirmed this with Bob as he was not on duty Monday morning when I left.

It was a real shit show in there on 6/11. 

If Blue Cat Guy's raft is still in there, I think someone should get it out ASAP. Flows are plenty low. Even if we don't apply maritime law here, a large reward from Blue Cat Guy is in order.


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## Blade&Shaft (May 23, 2009)

Haha. Blue Cat Guy. Sounds like he made all the wrong moves. Super curious about his entry into the ROD, assumedly unflipped but with his boat… must’ve been a helluva ride between the wall and skull hole that day, it was damn near river wide. And yeah, he’s gonna owe some beer fines at the very least.


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## Preston H. (Jun 25, 2008)

He was in there before I got there but I did get to watch four rafts run while I was in the eddy. Most instructive was a 16’ cat that ran the hole straight on and benefitted from no significant intentional propulsion after the hit. The hole won’t flip a big raft coming straight on at that level but it will direct it right into the Rock. 16’ cat hit the rock with some left angle and slid around, but could just as easily gone into the Room. I am guessing something similar happened to Blue Cat Guy. I look forward to hearing from him on here. 

Also, I haven’t considered this because I run a 14’ raft - straight into the hole with speed and then pull with a left upstream ferry seems like a legitimate plan at 11,500 cfs.


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## Blade&Shaft (May 23, 2009)

I couldn’t disagree more. Why flirt with danger and hit the hole at all? Too much risk/consequence. The standard right to left, turn and pull away from Skull is all you need to know, assuming that you know. No business hanging out on the right and being anywhere near the stuff you need to miss.
As for Blue Cat Guy, I’m guessing we won’t hear from him here. Aside from wallowing in shame and self-doubt, I’m guessing he doesn’t contribute to the Buzz else we would have heard from him by now. Great story with an epic walk of shame out though. Then you realize you left shit you need down there. Jeeze.


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## Preston H. (Jun 25, 2008)

I don’t think we disagree at all. Right to left is always the line. I’m just saying there’s another way, albeit not one that I would choose. As for Blue Cat Guy, I know we won’t hear from “him” but we may hear from “not him.”


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## Pinchecharlie (Jul 27, 2017)

Since iam the guy learning everything from the internet… isn’t there a bad sieve river left at skull rapid? Iam asking because I want to not regurgitate bad info


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

Pinchecharlie said:


> Since iam the guy learning everything from the internet… isn’t there a bad sieve river left at skull rapid? Iam asking because I want to not regurgitate bad info


Nope


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## mr. compassionate (Jan 13, 2006)

Pinchecharlie said:


> Since iam the guy learning everything from the internet… isn’t there a bad sieve river left at skull rapid? Iam asking because I want to not regurgitate bad info


There is a protrustion(if that's the right word) of land that causes a lateral that pushes you toward skull hole. Basic move is to pull left and break the lateral. I didn't do so well on 6/4 and flirted with the left side of skull hole, eventually had to stop ferrying and pulling left, square up and dig my oars in. Quite a big wave to say the least, was a pretty thrilling ride!


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## Blade&Shaft (May 23, 2009)

On 6/14, peak, I believe the day the shit went down, I was rowing my 10.5' Hyside w/frame, holes and waves weren't an option for that small of a boat. We ate lunch at Hades before the canyon and saw the gaggle of red commercial boats and hodgepodge of blue boats/cats go by as we ate. For Skull, I took a decent piece of the right side of the top left hole to bust through the lateral, one scissor to spin, and two pulls away from Skull and was done. Was then in the swirly water immediately adjacent to skull and hung out for a minute with good view of the hole, ROS and ROD. Not saying that's the line, just sayin... that's the line.


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

When I used to ranger there, I would tell people to try and hit the lateral as low as you possibly can, and if you don't break it just keep rowing.. I've been bounced out into the middle on more than one occasion, and as long as you're still rowing for the left wall you can drag the bow of your boat right over skull hole, and row right into the eddy


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## Blade&Shaft (May 23, 2009)

MNichols, when did you last ranger there? You look familiar and kinda like a ranger I ran down with many years ago, say, 2008/2009ish


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

Blade&Shaft said:


> MNichols, when did you last ranger there? You look familiar and kinda like a ranger I ran down with many years ago, say, 2008/2009ish


Coronavirus pretty much killed the volunteer ranger program at West water, that and ranger Bobby.. my last year there was 20/20 if memory serves and I have been doing it for 20 years. I've run down with many a private boater, especially in high water with people that were hell bent on going, but didn't have the experience to do it safely by themselves.. very good possibility I ran down with you...


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## Blade&Shaft (May 23, 2009)

Cool man! Yea, the guy we ran down with was a volunteer, and actually ended up partying with us quite a bit, before and after the rapids. If memory serves correctly, I believe he wore an old-school style high float PFD and that particular trip water was up around 16k. The ranger was solo rowing but I cannot remember the craft. Could've been you!


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## craven_morhead (Feb 20, 2007)

MNichols said:


> When I used to ranger there, I would tell people to try and hit the lateral as low as you possibly can, and if you don't break it just keep rowing.. I've been bounced out into the middle on more than one occasion, and as long as you're still rowing for the left wall you can drag the bow of your boat right over skull hole, and row right into the eddy


That was... not my experience.


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

Blade&Shaft said:


> Cool man! Yea, the guy we ran down with was a volunteer, and actually ended up partying with us quite a bit, before and after the rapids. If memory serves correctly, I believe he wore an old-school style high float PFD and that particular trip water was up around 16k. The ranger was solo rowing but I cannot remember the craft. Could've been you!


That sounds like Arlo.. I never partied when I was on a patrol trip, against the rules for one thing, and for another, it wouldn't do for someone to need my help, and me being unable to provide it, especially in a boat with BLM on the sides in big black letters!

Now once I was in camp, and off the clock so to speak I've been known to have a beer or four 😁


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## Roseldo (Aug 27, 2020)

MNichols said:


> When I used to ranger there, I would tell people to try and hit the lateral as low as you possibly can, and if you don't break it just keep rowing.. I've been bounced out into the middle on more than one occasion, and as long as you're still rowing for the left wall you can drag the bow of your boat right over skull hole, and row right into the eddy


Definitely agree with breaking through low. I ran it at about 15.5K this year and hit the lateral too high, failed to break through and got typewritered back to the middle. Still managed to pull left of skull hole, but there was a lot more suspense than I'm usually looking for.


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## mikesee (Aug 4, 2012)

richp said:


> If it was your gear of considerable value, wouldn't you want some capable and considerate person/s able to extricate it, to make every effort to return it to the rightful owner?



If it was my gear of considerable value, I wouldn't leave it there unattended to begin with.

If circumstances absolutely, positively mandated that I leave it there, I'd be damn certain to compensate whomever got it out, with whatever they felt was appropriate.


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

mikesee said:


> If it was my gear of considerable value, I wouldn't leave it there unattended to begin with.
> 
> If circumstances absolutely, positively mandated that I leave it there, I'd be damn certain to compensate whomever got it out, with whatever they felt was appropriate.


You sir, are in the 1% of people that get stuck in the room of Doom. Most, not all, but most generally find their way out of the canyon, I've heard every manner of story, the most unbelievable one was they floated all the way to Cisco in their pfds, called the Moab field office on Monday, and asked if we had gotten their boat out of the room of Doom. Not called and said hey, can you guys help me get my boat out of the room of Doom, there's a big difference in the mindset of people that go down to rescue gear if somebody's asking for help, or wanting you to do it for them...


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## Pinchecharlie (Jul 27, 2017)

Is there a sieve river left wher people have been entrapped? Is there a cave where someone went in and resurfaced but was trapped and ultimately was retrieved? These are stores that a Moab guide told me lol!


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## mikesee (Aug 4, 2012)

MNichols said:


> You sir, are in the 1% of people that get stuck in the room of Doom. Most, not all, but most generally find their way out of the canyon, I've heard every manner of story, the most unbelievable one was they floated all the way to Cisco in their pfds, called the Moab field office on Monday, and asked if we had gotten their boat out of the room of Doom. Not called and said hey, can you guys help me get my boat out of the room of Doom, there's a big difference in the mindset of people that go down to rescue gear if somebody's asking for help, or wanting you to do it for them...



Either you quoted the wrong post, are talking out your ass, or have no idea what you're talking about.


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## Blade&Shaft (May 23, 2009)

People have been body pinned on the shock rock, if I remember right, in circumstances where their gear went into the ROD and they got tangled up in rope and went left. Yo Pinche, nothing left dude, just a big eddy. Maybe you're referring to the Magnetic Wall in Sock it to Me, where you can indeed wrap a boat or a person.


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

mikesee said:


> Either you quoted the wrong post, are talking out your ass, or have no idea what you're talking about.


Well gosh, thank you for the kind words. He said that he would compensate somebody that got his boat out of the room of Doom, having ranger there for 20 years I feel I am qualified to say that he is in the 1% of people that need help getting their boat out in that he would compensate someone.


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

Pinchecharlie said:


> Is there a sieve river left wher people have been entrapped? Is there a cave where someone went in and resurfaced but was trapped and ultimately was retrieved? These are stores that a Moab guide told me lol!


You got to quit listening to commercial guides Charlie...


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

Blade&Shaft said:


> People have been body pinned on the shock rock, if I remember right, in circumstances where their gear went into the ROD and they got tangled up in rope and went left. Yo Pinche, nothing left dude, just a big eddy. Maybe you're referring to the Magnetic Wall in Sock it to Me, where you can indeed wrap a boat or a person.


There was a gentleman named Max who died when his foot got entangled in an improperly stoned bowline at least 10 if not 15 years ago, his boat went to the outside of the room of doom, he went to the inside of the room of Doom, did not have a knife, many people tried to climb down to get to him, but nobody was able to reach him..

A very sad day, and the body recovery.. not fun at all..


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## Blade&Shaft (May 23, 2009)

Yep, that's the one. Super rough.


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## Pinchecharlie (Jul 27, 2017)

Ugh, I may have gotten skull and sock it to me mixed up. I did it in April at 1700 ish. I was stressed about skull but it was pretty simple but I was with a commercial guide training group and they told me what to do. Didn’t even get a splash at that level and the top hole and big rock where easy to miss. I actually somehow swam off the oars in the v-wave at sock it to me and washed around the corner. The boat was circling in the eddy above. A ranger was around the corner doing something and pulled me in his boat and then A guide trainey jumped in my boat and brought it down all better! I was impressed by that river and thought it was spookey like kapoo spookey. Who’s skull was it? And when did it go away?


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

Blade&Shaft said:


> Yep, that's the one. Super rough.


Indeed...


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

Pinchecharlie said:


> Ugh, I may have gotten skull and sock it to me mixed up. I did it in April at 1700 ish. I was stressed about skull but it was pretty simple but I was with a commercial guide training group and they told me what to do. Didn’t even get a splash at that level and the top hole and big rock where easy to miss. I actually somehow swam off the oars in the v-wave at sock it to me and washed around the corner. The boat was circling in the eddy above. A ranger was around the corner doing something and pulled me in his boat and then A guide trainey jumped in my boat and brought it down all better! I was impressed by that river and thought it was spookey like kapoo spookey. Who’s skull was it? And when did it go away?


The v-wave in sock it to me gets a lot of people, at certain water levels you can sneak it on the extreme right, and around 6000 CFS magnetic rock below the rapid on the left gets a lot of people. The secret to the v-wave is to pick one side of it or the other and square up to it. Center punching it many times will stall the boat out, and the volume of water there will turn it sideways, and most times just dump trucks The boatman out, but I have seen flips there...
Skull rapid did not go anywhere Charlie, it's still there...


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## Blade&Shaft (May 23, 2009)

Pinche, you crack me up man. 

Glad you were impressed by the "Mighty Colorado."


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## Pinchecharlie (Jul 27, 2017)

There was a human skull there right?! Sitting somewhere like,,,”beware!” Right?


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## mr. compassionate (Jan 13, 2006)

Pinchecharlie said:


> Ugh, I may have gotten skull and sock it to me mixed up. I did it in April at 1700 ish. I was stressed about skull but it was pretty simple but I was with a commercial guide training group and they told me what to do. Didn’t even get a splash at that level and the top hole and big rock where easy to miss. I actually somehow swam off the oars in the v-wave at sock it to me and washed around the corner. The boat was circling in the eddy above. A ranger was around the corner doing something and pulled me in his boat and then A guide trainey jumped in my boat and brought it down all better! I was impressed by that river and thought it was spookey like kapoo spookey. Who’s skull was it? And when did it go away?


I've heard it was named that due to a cow skull that sat on the rock at some point in the past.


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## Pinchecharlie (Jul 27, 2017)

Oh man shit! Iam so gullible…
I thought the natives killed some tourist and placed their head there ….BEWARE! I swear though that place is spookey ! BEWARE!


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## Acheron (Apr 5, 2021)

Pinchecharlie said:


> Oh man shit! Iam so gullible…
> I thought the natives killed some tourist and placed their head there ….BEWARE! I swear though that place is spookey ! BEWARE!


This whole place is haunted. You'd think the US was built on ancient burial grounds...oh crap!!!


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

Pinchecharlie said:


> Oh man shit! Iam so gullible…
> I thought the natives killed some tourist and placed their head there ….BEWARE! I swear though that place is spookey ! BEWARE!


I went and found the section in West water lost and found, the book by Mike Milligan, I took photos of the two pages that address how skull got its name, here you go


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## luke c (Apr 25, 2005)

I think we as a community we have failed to answer the most valuable question. Is the cooler of the blue cat full of beer. If yes why has it not been removed by consumption? If no where did the beer go or was there any at all?


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

Page 2


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## mr. compassionate (Jan 13, 2006)

MNichols said:


> I went and found the section in West water lost and found, the book by Mike Milligan, I took photos of the two pages that address how skull got its name, here you go


Wow, never heard of that book-just ordered it!

Thanks


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

mr. compassionate said:


> I've heard it was named that due to a cow skull that sat on the rock at some point in the past.


According to milligan, it was an entire skeleton, human...


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

mr. compassionate said:


> Wow, never heard of that book-just ordered it!
> 
> Thanks


It's an outstanding read, and very well researched. I met the author on two occasions while I was out at the ranger station, very pleasant guy, that knew way more about the area and the river then I did, by a long shot. Learned a lot from him


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## luke c (Apr 25, 2005)

luke c said:


> I think we as a community we have failed to answer the most valuable question. Is the cooler of the blue cat full of beer. If yes why has it not been removed by consumption? If no where did the beer go or was there any at all?


I suppose I have failed to answer some of these questions my self. As I noticed the blue cat last Saturday, my 1st thought was beer in a cooler and can I make it in and out of the ROD. Of course after taking a realistic look at the situation and soiling my 1400$ dry suit I passed at the opportunity. I have failed!


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## mkashzg (Aug 9, 2006)

Very good book! Great history of the Westwater area.


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## Blade&Shaft (May 23, 2009)

Maybe, hopefully, possibly, there is some whole milk in the cooler. I call dibs on it if there is.


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## Pinchecharlie (Jul 27, 2017)

See I was right! 
keep out!
Beware!


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

Pinchecharlie said:


> See I was right!
> keep out!
> Beware!


Sadly, no Charlie, you weren't.. Close, but old {or new} stories from guide's, well, perhaps not the most reliable info.. 

Do you know how you can tell when a guide is lying Charlie?


His lips are moving...


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## mr. compassionate (Jan 13, 2006)

Blade&Shaft said:


> Maybe, hopefully, possibly, there is some whole milk in the cooler. I call dibs on it if there is.


What-are you one of the two McPoyl brothers on Always Sunny in Philadelphia?


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## mikesee (Aug 4, 2012)

MNichols said:


> Well gosh, thank you for the kind words. He said that he would compensate somebody that got his boat out of the room of Doom, having ranger there for 20 years I feel I am qualified to say that he is in the 1% of people that need help getting their boat out in that he would compensate someone.



Your intent was good. Your internet skills not so much -- you quoted me, not him, in your response.


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## Pinchecharlie (Jul 27, 2017)

There’s lost boat posts on f.b all the time. Here it’s to humiliating lol! So if some all business sailer asks ,” permission to come aboard?” Just say no. Kinda like “not guilty” ??


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## DoStep (Jun 26, 2012)

MNichols said:


> The v-wave in sock it to me gets a lot of people, at certain water levels you can sneak it on the extreme right, and around 6000 CFS magnetic rock below the rapid on the left gets a lot of people....


There is a small eddy just above the magnetic rock that you might not ever notice... until you get stuck in it. We fondly refer to it as the "Closet of Doom".


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## Preston H. (Jun 25, 2008)

A friend of mine reports that the blue cat was still there Friday, 6/24. That’s two weeks in the Room. Said it was 10 feet above the water line and really beat up. One tube was probably still inflated. Bob said he was headed in there Saturday 6/25 to see if he could get it out. 

No word on the cooler or its contents.


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

The Room will do that to gear. If it's still in there 2 weeks later, that's likely a record. I can't imagine someone leaving their boat in there that long.. Perhaps his experience with boating on Westwater has dampened his desire to continue ?


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## Blade&Shaft (May 23, 2009)

That’s nuts. I’ll be back at Westwater next week and will get a further update.


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## Pinchecharlie (Jul 27, 2017)

I crashed a hang glider in the owens valley once and walked to the highway and hitch hiked to my truck!! Left that thing there and never did it again lol!


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

Pinchecharlie said:


> I crashed a hang glider in the owens valley once and walked to the highway and hitch hiked to my truck!! Left that thing there and never did it again lol!


Well there you go, perhaps they had Charlie's mindset. 

Why does it not surprise me that Charlie crashed a hang glider... 

Perhaps it was because he wasn't able to mount his favorite seat on it?


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## Bootboy (Aug 25, 2020)

Pinchecharlie said:


> I crashed a hang glider in the owens valley once and walked to the highway and hitch hiked to my truck!! Left that thing there and never did it again lol!


An unconscionable act of littering


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## Preston H. (Jun 25, 2008)

MNichols said:


> The Room will do that to gear. If it's still in there 2 weeks later, that's likely a record. I can't imagine someone leaving their boat in there that long.. Perhaps his experience with boating on Westwater has dampened his desire to continue ?


I would love to speculate about Blue Cat Guy. In fact, I suspect he has sparked future campsite discussions and I hope each boatman here will do his part to craft the myth. I am happy to provide several additional, useful facts to fuel the fire should anyone be moved to spin a yarn.


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## Blade&Shaft (May 23, 2009)

Provide


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## Preston H. (Jun 25, 2008)

Blade&Shaft said:


> Provide


Observations at the put in:

White male, not short or tall, did not appear to be an endurance athlete type. 
Boat and gear appeared shiny and new. 
He was wearing a blue, collared shirt, much like one you’d see a fly fisherman wearing and quite sporty if you ask me. 
Launched sometime after 9 and before noon. 
Not in a rush, seemed relaxed. 
Was with one other boat I think. 

Observations from the river left eddy below skull 

Pacing and perturbed on top of the hill between the Room and the small river right eddy 100 yards downstream. 
Repeatedly attempted verbal communication only, no signals. 
Boat was pretty stable in the far river right downstream corner of the room. Boat appeared lonely and concerned, but still optimistic, not unlike a dog left in the car a little too long. 

Does that help?


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## Blade&Shaft (May 23, 2009)

How exciting. I do indeed think that will help keep this juicy thread afloat…


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## gnarsify (Oct 5, 2020)

Preston H. said:


> Observations at the put in:
> 
> White male, not short or tall, did not appear to be an endurance athlete type.
> Boat and gear appeared shiny and new.
> ...


However, the other boat with him couldn't catch the small eddy and he was left behind.

Just as the sun was setting, he saw a silhouette on the river approaching Skull without stopping to scout. The mysterious boat ran a perfectly clean line and caught the small eddy. To the man's amazement, the mysterious boater signaled him to climb down and hop on his boat. It was a black cataraft...


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## luke c (Apr 25, 2005)

Please tell me the black cat was captained by the most attractive river queen of all time. I just want know she’s out there.


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## Blade&Shaft (May 23, 2009)

Looks like we could turn the Blue Cat Guy saga into a quality “Choose Your Own Adventure” campfire story… will he ever get out of the Room of Doom……….????


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## Blade&Shaft (May 23, 2009)

Rumor has it, five years later, that the Blue Cat is still in the Room of Doom, swirling around in endless circles, and no one knows what’s in the cooler and no one dares to look. And Blue Cat Guy was never seen or heard from again… but sometimes, at night, at the camps below the Canyon, a grown man is heard sobbing in the tamarisks….


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## gnarsify (Oct 5, 2020)

Blade&Shaft said:


> Rumor has it, five years later, that the Blue Cat is still in the Room of Doom, swirling around in endless circles, and no one knows what’s in the cooler and no one dares to look. And Blue Cat Guy was never seen or heard from again… but sometimes, at night, at the camps below the Canyon, a grown man is heard sobbing in the tamarisks….


_5 years later? You skipped all the good stuff..._

Blue Cat Guy hopped aboard the Black Cat, he looked at the mystery oarsman in the fading light, It was the most beautiful river maiden he had ever seen. But before he knew it, she held a rescue knife to his throat.

"You ever hear of the Black Cat Mafia?" she asked him.
"Uh, wha?" he stammered.
"Looks like you're in a bit of a pickle." she pressed the knife more firmly against his throat. "Before I pull you off this god forsaken rock, I need you to do something for me." She reached into the rear bay of her cat and pulled out a large, tattered dry bag. "Now, this rescue is not free. You need to go back to your boat, unload all the beer, place this drybag into the cooler and return the beer to me. Do NOT look in the drybag, understood?"

He felt a drop of blood trickle under the collar of his blue Columbia fishing shirt, and nodded. As he hiked back up to the Room of Doom, he pondered his options. He never thought he would experience something like this when he bought his raft using fraudulent PPP loans during COVID. He was starting to realize boating is not for the faint of heart, the rapids more powerful than he imagined, the hard work of rigging the boat under the desert sun, spending hours trying to bust through the eddy fence before giving up, and now a river pirate? He returned to his Blue Cat bobbing violently in the surging eddy, and pulled out the remaining case of beer from the cooler. He loaded the drybag into the now-empty cooler and not wanting to risk being stranded by the beautiful stranger, he did as he was told and didn't look in the drybag.

By the time he returned to the Black Cat, the sun had set and it was dark. He handed the River Maiden the case of beer and stepped onto the Black Cat. The Maiden shotgunned the beer, gave a loud war cry and they both launched into the dark canyon...


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## westwatercuban (May 19, 2021)

gnarsify said:


> _5 years later? You skipped all the good stuff..._
> 
> Blue Cat Guy hopped aboard the Black Cat, he looked at the mystery oarsman in the fading light, It was the most beautiful river maiden he had ever seen. But before he knew it, she held a rescue knife to his throat.
> 
> ...


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## Blade&Shaft (May 23, 2009)

But good gawd what was in the dry bag…


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

Blade&Shaft said:


> But good gawd what was in the dry bag…


A new seat for Charlie!


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## Conundrum (Aug 23, 2004)

Has there been mention of condoms?


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

Conundrum said:


> Has there been mention of condoms?


Not till just now!
😂🤣


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## Heywood (Apr 12, 2019)

gnarsify said:


> However, the other boat with him couldn't catch the small eddy and he was left behind.
> 
> Just as the sun was setting, he saw a silhouette on the river approaching Skull without stopping to scout. The mysterious boat ran a perfectly clean line and caught the small eddy. To the man's amazement, the mysterious boater signaled him to climb down and hop on his boat. It was a black cataraft...


"Big Joe's the name!!" says the mysterious boater. They chat all the way down to Westwater where Big Joe says he is continuing on to Cataract. Big Joe gives him a cold sixer and tells him to share them with the rangers and rows downstream into the night.


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## gnarsify (Oct 5, 2020)

Blue Cat Man awoke with a start. How long had he been asleep? How far down the canyon had they traveled? He rubbed his eyes and surveyed the scene, it was so dark on this moonless night that he had trouble discerning the canyon from the water. The River Maiden was still gently rowing, but it was dead silent. Being a new boatman, he didn't know you could row so silently and he looked at the oars and noticed they weren't leaving the water, she was sculling masterfully as they made a gentle ferry towards the river bank.

"Don't make a sound," she whispered, "we're almost there".

Blue cat man could just barely see that they were ferrying towards a camp. As they neared the shore, he noticed it was a group of boats that had passed him earlier that day, or was it the previous day? Blue Cat Man had lost track of all sense of time. The River Maiden landed just upstream from the camp in a thick grove of Tamarisk, obscuring the Black Cat from view.

"Stay here." she whispered. She grabbed another, smaller dry bag and silently hopped ashore and disappeared into the brush. Blue Cat Man found himself once again alone. He had so many thoughts running through his head he couldn't make sense of them all.

"What the hell is going on?" he whispered silently to himself. He was starting to get impatient, why was he sitting here by himself as some stranger, a gorgeous stranger nonetheless, was sneaking around a camp in the middle of the night. Was she seeing if they could share camp? Was this an elaborate prank his friend had come up with? The whole situation was bizarre. Just when he was about to get out of the boat and wander over to camp to find out what was going on, the River Maiden silently emerged from the bushes. The dry bag she brought with her was bursting with children's snacks and she had somehow managed to carry 4 cases of beer with her. Without a word, she loaded the raft with the bounty and launched back onto the river. They were back in the current before Blue Cat Man had a chance to ask what was going on.

They silently floated passed the camp, and just before the camp was out of view, Blue Cat Man saw a headlamp light up the rafts. It was hard to tell at first, but after a moment he saw it. There were condoms on each raft's oarlocks and next to the boats in the sand were big letters "CAT BOAT MAFIA, STAY HOME"...


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

Perfect!


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## Preston H. (Jun 25, 2008)

gnarsify said:


> Blue Cat Man awoke with a start. How long had he been asleep? How far down the canyon had they traveled? He rubbed his eyes and surveyed the scene, it was so dark on this moonless night that he had trouble discerning the canyon from the water. The River Maiden was still gently rowing, but it was dead silent. Being a new boatman, he didn't know you could row so silently and he looked at the oars and noticed they weren't leaving the water, she was sculling masterfully as they made a gentle ferry towards the river bank.
> 
> "Don't make a sound," she whispered, "we're almost there".
> 
> ...


👏👏


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## Blade&Shaft (May 23, 2009)

Pure gold gnarsify…


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## richp (Feb 27, 2005)

Moderators, we need a new "Ad Libbed Fiction" forum.


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## tBatt (May 18, 2020)

I don't want to take away from the art that is being produced here, but I have to share this video.


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## tBatt (May 18, 2020)

Oh wait, there's more!






Strong work @yardsells.


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## Andy H. (Oct 13, 2003)

tBatt said:


> I don't want to take away from the art that is being produced here, but I have to share this video.


I liked the way her boat eddied out on the left after Skull to have a beer. Too bad she was on her second swim at the time.


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## Preston H. (Jun 25, 2008)

Woo doggie what a couple great videos! That footage of raft #1 alone in the eddy gives us some insight into how Blue Cat Guy's boat felt. Man would I love to see a time lapse of those two weeks.


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## caverdan (Aug 27, 2004)

That's a prime example of needing a rapid rung......... if you don't have the upper body strength to reenter your raft after a swim......🐴


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## mikesee (Aug 4, 2012)

caverdan said:


> That's a prime example of needing a rapid rung......... if you don't have the upper body strength to reenter your raft after a swim......🐴



She probably had plenty of strength to make the move. But it appeared that she had sooooooo much crap stuffed into the front of her PFD that she couldn't get over that hump.

If I had a nickel for every time I've seen that happen, then encouraged people to slim down in that pocket...


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## Pinchecharlie (Jul 27, 2017)

After my latest swim I realized I need to do some burpee’s too and make crawl straps . It’s crazy how strong the current is below the surface . She had a wild ride lol!! Where there motor boats in there? Go pro is hard for me to see


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## Pinchecharlie (Jul 27, 2017)

Oh never mind watched 2nd vid lol! Are those private boaters or rangers in motor rigs?


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## gnarsify (Oct 5, 2020)

The pair floated silently in the dark. It seemed every time Blue Cat Man was about to say something the River Maiden sensed it and would shush him. After what felt like several hours, the River Maiden guided the boat to shore and landed the boat behind a large rock, hiding it from view. She tied the Black Cat off, and gestured for him to come ashore. Blue Cat Man's legs felt shaky after being on the raft for so long without a break. He took a couple steps up the small sandy beach, when the River Maiden handed him one of the pilfered beers.

"You look like you need this" she said, as she cracked open a beer for herself. The beer tasted better than any beer he had had before and soon the first beer was empty. The River Maiden gave him a wry smile and another beer. This one went down just as fast, and the next, and the next. Every time he finished his beer, the River Maiden had another ready. Blue Cat Man hadn't eaten in some time and soon he was stumbling drunk. The River Maiden sparked a joint and handed it to Blue Cat Man, even though he never smoked pot the lack of inhibition and the strange circumstances enabled him to take a big hit. This put him one toke over the line, and he laid down and fell asleep.

The sun was bright, too bright when the Blue Cat Man woke up. He was nauseous and hungover and the intensity of the sun was too much, he needed shade and more sleep. He slowly sat up with his head pounding and took in his surroundings. He was on a small beach between two house sized rocks and the beach ended in a sheer cliff. The house sized rocks blocked his position from the river. He winced as he stood up and remembered the River Maiden. Where was she? There was no sign of the boat, and there weren't even any footprints in the sand, only the compression his body made when he passed out the evening before. It was like he dropped out of the sky and landed on this isolated beach.

"Hello!" he yelled, hoping the River Maiden was just a short distance away. But the only thing he heard was his own echo and the cry of a Redtail Hawk. He looked more closely at his surroundings hoping he would spot a game trail or some other route out from between the rocks. Nothing. He called out again, only for his echo to respond.

Rumor has it, five years later, that the Blue Cat is still in the Room of Doom, swirling around in endless circles, and no one knows what’s in the cooler and no one dares to look. And Blue Cat Guy was never seen or heard from again… but sometimes, at night, at the camps below the Canyon, a grown man is heard sobbing in the tamarisks….

_fin_


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

Pinchecharlie said:


> Oh never mind watched 2nd vid lol! Are those private boaters or rangers in motor rigs?


They are private boaters, in sport boats. One out of moab, one out of Denver, the one that did the rescue posts here, @yardsells...


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## Pinchecharlie (Jul 27, 2017)

Why did he have trouble starting the engine you think? And shouldn’t a boat like that have a littl consule to make it easier or how do rangers do it or let’s say if it was a perfect set up what would it be ?


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

Pinchecharlie said:


> Why did he have trouble starting the engine you think? And shouldn’t a boat like that have a littl consule to make it easier or how do rangers do it or let’s say if it was a perfect set up what would it be ?


It apparently got waterlogged.. Consoles with steering wheels can't turn the motor to steer nearly as fast as you can with a tiller...

Not to mention adding difficulty if one has to re flip it if the worst happens.. And they take up space, and add weight...

What @yardsells has is as close to a perfect setup as one can get, he's a true master of all things boating, on rivers anyway.. But then he's like that with most any endeavor he undertakes...


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## westwatercuban (May 19, 2021)

Pinchecharlie said:


> Why did he have trouble starting the engine you think? And shouldn’t a boat like that have a littl consule to make it easier or how do rangers do it or let’s say if it was a perfect set up what would it be ?


Too many different possibilities to know for sure. Flooded carb (if it’s carb), spark plugs got wet, water in intake, etc. it’s cranking so It’s not hydro locked.

On that boat design this is set up to use a hand tiller. Like small boats it saves space and is just as practical. You usually only see center or side consoles on bigger boats. It’s also cheaper. Less cables, wires, and electronics.

I personly prefer a console because I think They are more comfortable but I wouldn’t necessarily say one is better. I would rather flip up right a zodiac without a center console though.


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

It's one of those "clean" merc 2 strokes, I BELIEVE it's injected... I never took off the cover though to verify.... He says it guzzles fuel line no tomorrow, but that's the price you pay to have a "snappy" throttle response and a quick wind up...

And fwiw, the boat is an Achilles..


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## desertriverrat (Apr 4, 2010)

The "Blue Cat Guy" removed his boat on Saturday as planned with much assistance from Ranger Bob, and I have all the facts as it is my raft! The raft was not abandoned or in need of salvage, or any other bullshit you all came up with! The Westwater Rangers and therefore the BLM were notified the Saturday evening of when I ended up in the RoD. I was in constant contact with the WW rangers and my plan was to wait until the water came down to a level I could get back in and row it out! My mess, my problem! I was NOT asking for the BLM to solve my issues. Being that it was 12k I wasn't going to row it out that day. There was some discussion of a motor rig going in to get it at the high flows, but that did not materialize, and it was just a matter of being patient for the water to drop, but unfortunately it did a second smaller spike later that week keeping it too high to retrieve. I was in the area for the week and would have returned if the water had dropped. I currently live in NM and had to return home to wait for the water to drop while remaining in contact with the rangers.

I have been running WW since the mid 90's, have run flows from 1,300 to 51,000 cfs and everything in between, I started guiding there, I've done rescues in RoD both of gear and people at flows where you could row in and out. This was the first time I had an unplanned entry into the RoD. I say this NOT to brag or pretend to be an expert, etc., but to say that sometimes unplanned SHIT happens on the river to anyone! If any of you can honestly say you never ended up in a difficult unplanned situation, well congrats, but beware your day may be coming! You don't need to second guess or critique my decisions because you weren't there and know none of the circumstances of what led to them. I made the decisions I made based on my experience, knowing what resources I had and my 2 boating buddies had, and most importantly not doing something that would make the situation worse, or potentially hurt or kill me or one of my friends or others that may try to assist. Looking back I wouldn't change my decision.

We were a group of 3 with 3 boats and have been running rivers together for many years. We were having a great day on WW and after lunch we headed into the rapids. Below Funnel I was in the lead when I noticed a person from the commercial trip that passed us at lunch standing on shore. We went into assist/rescue mode and we picked up 3 of the passengers and notified the guides on both sides of the canyon cliff we had all their passengers so they could stop trying to work their way up river. At almost 12k, very limited eddies and hard to get in the ones that are there. To shorten the story, the 3 of us tried to pull into cocaine cove to regroup and return the passengers to the commercial company. Our last boat who had one of the commercial passengers didn't make the eddy and since I didn't have a passenger, I pulled out behind him so he won't be running Skull solo, while our other boat with 2 passengers waited for the commercial group to come down and reunite. He hit the lateral and got stood up a bit and I was concerned that there might be another issue, so I was watching to make sure I knew if they made it or not and they did, but I must have gotten off my line a bit while watching them and the lateral launched me off the side of my raft when I went to make the usual cut. I managed to hold on with one of my toe holds and oarlock. As I pulled myself back in I realized I was about to drop into Skull hole broadside and no time to grab oars so I highsided and held on and was flushed out the right side of the hole and got 1 oar in time to hit the right side of Rock of Shock and into the room I went.

After circling for like 45 min 2 guys appeared up above and hollered down asking if there was another person in the room with me. There wasn't but I asked them to come down and help me land my boat. Lots of wood and debris, but no other equipment at this point. They did help me land my raft and got it tied off. When we got to the top they took off looking for their friend (who actually was on my buddies boat at this point) and then another guy came running by heading down river. I looked over the cliff and there were 2 new boats in the eddy but not my two buddies so I knew they would be down river and started heading that way. I ran into one of my buddies who was heading to see if I needed help. We headed back to our 2 remaining boats and ran the remaining rapids and a late take-out.

It turns out there were at least 3 flipped boats that day with several swimmers, and me and my raft floating into the RoD

We went back to the ranger station and I notified them of what had happened and gave them all my contact info. 

Big thanks to Ranger Bob for all his assistance and going above and beyond!


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## mr. compassionate (Jan 13, 2006)

desertriverrat said:


> The "Blue Cat Guy" removed his boat on Saturday as planned with much assistance from Ranger Bob, and I have all the facts as it is my raft! The raft was not abandoned or in need of salvage, or any other bullshit you all came up with! The Westwater Rangers and therefore the BLM were notified the Saturday evening of when I ended up in the RoD. I was in constant contact with the WW rangers and my plan was to wait until the water came down to a level I could get back in and row it out! My mess, my problem! I was NOT asking for the BLM to solve my issues. Being that it was 12k I wasn't going to row it out that day. There was some discussion of a motor rig going in to get it at the high flows, but that did not materialize, and it was just a matter of being patient for the water to drop, but unfortunately it did a second smaller spike later that week keeping it too high to retrieve. I was in the area for the week and would have returned if the water had dropped. I currently live in NM and had to return home to wait for the water to drop while remaining in contact with the rangers.
> 
> I have been running WW since the mid 90's, have run flows from 1,300 to 51,000 cfs and everything in between, I started guiding there, I've done rescues in RoD both of gear and people at flows where you could row in and out. This was the first time I had an unplanned entry into the RoD. I say this NOT to brag or pretend to be an expert, etc., but to say that sometimes unplanned SHIT happens on the river to anyone! If any of you can honestly say you never ended up in a difficult unplanned situation, well congrats, but beware your day may be coming! You don't need to second guess or critique my decisions because you weren't there and know none of the circumstances of what led to them. I made the decisions I made based on my experience, knowing what resources I had and my 2 boating buddies had, and most importantly not doing something that would make the situation worse, or potentially hurt or kill me or one of my friends or others that may try to assist. Looking back I wouldn't change my decision.
> 
> ...


Nice play by play! Glad things turned out well for you although a lot of time involved!


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## Preston H. (Jun 25, 2008)

This is amazing and perhaps one of the best things that has ever happened here.

To begin with, could you tell us about your trip on westwater at 51,000 cfs? Wow man that sure is a lot of water and I’d like to hear about it.


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

Preston H. said:


> This is amazing and perhaps one of the best things that has ever happened here.
> 
> To begin with, could you tell us about your trip on westwater at 51,000 cfs? Wow man that sure is a lot of water and I’d like to hear about it.


The highest I ran it was 44,000. Everything was flushed, the only water feature was a 3 foot tall eddy fence on the room of doom. FLushed thru in about an hour, then took out and drove to the Moab Daily, ran that and was back at the ranger station for dinner.. I've heard that a couple thousand CFS at those levels can create "interesting water features" though..


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## Preston H. (Jun 25, 2008)

Oh, when you have time could you describe the condition of the raft after its time in the Room? I’m also curious about your raft recovery plan. Was the plan always to abandon the raft until Bob was ready to retrieve it or were there other plans to get in there sometime during those two weeks?
Thanks for filling us in on things.


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## Sparks1000 (Jul 5, 2018)

Preston H. said:


> Oh, when you have time could you describe the condition of the raft after its time in the Room? I’m also curious about your raft recovery plan. Was the plan always to abandon the raft until Bob was ready to retrieve it or were there other plans to get in there sometime during those two weeks?
> Thanks for filling us in on things.


But what was in the cooler?!?!


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## Preston H. (Jun 25, 2008)

I have a WW for tomorrow that I have to drop. Message me if you want to go.


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## DoStep (Jun 26, 2012)

MNichols said:


> The highest I ran it was 44,000. Everything was flushed, the only water feature was a 3 foot tall eddy fence on the room of doom. FLushed thru in about an hour, then took out and drove to the Moab Daily, ran that and was back at the ranger station for dinner.. I've heard that a couple thousand CFS at those levels can create "interesting water features" though..




I also saw WW at 45K, I could discern a slight 'ramp' at Marble Canyon, a few random 'small' waves that can flip most rigs, Skull seemed like boiling water with a HUGE pillow on the rock (may god have mercy on your soul if you ended up in the ROD), and another slightly perceptible 'ramp' at Last Chance. It seemed to happen about as fast as I typed that. The 'interesting' swirls and boils were 20' across and 4' deep/tall, as the water in WW goes up and down as much or more than it moves forward. I instructed my people to STAY IN THE BOAT. If one were to fall in, they would almost certainly resurface, it was just a matter of when. We were amazed to see the huge piles of driftwood that used to be perched 20-25' above the 'normal' water level had disappeared.


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## Bootboy (Aug 25, 2020)

DoStep said:


> I also saw WW at 45K, I could discern a slight 'ramp' at Marble Canyon, a few random 'small' waves that can flip most rigs, Skull seemed like boiling water with a HUGE pillow on the rock (may god have mercy on your soul if you ended up in the ROD), and another slightly perceptible 'ramp' at Last Chance. It seemed to happen about as fast as I typed that. The 'interesting' swirls and boils were 20' across and 4' deep/tall, as the water in WW goes up and down as much or more than it moves forward. I instructed my people to STAY IN THE BOAT. If one were to fall in, they would almost certainly resurface, it was just a matter of when. We were amazed to see the huge piles of driftwood that used to be perched 20-25' above the 'normal' water level had disappeared.


2011?


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