# Ramp Manners



## Gremlin

I don't mind politely educating people who might not recognize other people's needs. Usually, it hasn't occurred to them because they might not be familiar with trailering, for example. That said, I'm going to call out Lakota/Glenwood Adventure Company for taking out at 3:00 Friday and driving just to the top of the South Canyon ramp to strap down. We were all in duckies and were able to carry them up so were unaffected but I saw trailers backing up waiting for them to get out of the way. It didn't take them more than 5-10 minutes but they should know better.


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## jgrebe

With more and more people boating every year this is a good thing to start trying to educate people about. My biggest peeve is people who let kids (and dogs) roam the ramp. A few minutes waiting is one thing but hurting a child is a whole nother level of irresponsibility. If I see your unsupervised kid in my rear view mirror while I'm backing on the ramp you can expect to get an earful. Kids and dogs belong on the ramp ONLY to load and unload then get them to a safe place while you rig your boat


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## smhoeher

I guess I just felt like venting after my experiences yesterday. Courtesy and good manners go a long way until getting ignored or treated rudely. Most of the commercial groups are pretty good though I do see some act like bullies; they think they are more important than privates. We all need to remember that boating is FUN.


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## shappattack

I don't like to really be around a lot of people in general on the river, whether they are packing efficiently and using the ramp correctly or not. Pretty easy solution, don't go where other people are. Start self support kayaking, then you won't care what is going on at the ramp. Start boating (rafting or kayaking) on shoulder seasons. There is a lot of multiday boating to be had all over the west at the right time and place when people are generally not present at all.


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## lmyers

Try using the ramp at Hecla Junction mid-day July 4th or FibArk weekend. That will give you a new perspective of busy..... but I digress, there are issues everywhere that would be alleviated by simply being respectful of each other. I've seen fist fights break out over ramp space, it's silly. Be quick, friendly and take only the necessary amount of real estate.


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## PhilipJFry

this seems to be more of a problem in Colorado than it is in Idaho.


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## Andy H.

Remember, Only You can prevent Ramp Rage. 

good stuff above.

Chill, let folks know what you're up to, and don't be THAT guy...


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## Learch

I had to walk away from a fight with a drunk guy this season all ready. Having my kids there probably saved that guy from an ass whooping he wouldn't have truly felt until morning. I'm with Shapp, I dream of doing the Rogue in July or the Middle Fork Salmon, but the crowds keep me at bay. I'll stick to spring and fall on the Rogue.


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## mattman

Been really starting to dig the wintertime boating partly due to that reason, it's getting pretty bad. During summer I try to find something unpopular that I've never done before.

At least you are not on the confluence section of the Potomac and Shanandoa with the tubers, now those are some REAL drunk Baligerent A-Holes by the end of the day. Kind of always hoped a couple of 'em would miss the take out and float over Great Falls when I drove shuttle there, hey wait, didn't Neely do a cartoon of that?


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## SKeen

I am very conscious of ramp etiquette, but what peevs me is when the ranger at the filter plant put in on poudre reminds you of the 15 minute limit _every time_, even if it is obvious you are moving very quickly and your gear is not blocking anyone else's equipment. What bothers me about this is not just the reminder, but the fact that they back up the request by reminding me a private trip will be coming through "at some point."


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## Learch

SKeen said:


> I am very conscious of ramp etiquette, but what peevs me is when the ranger at the filter plant put in on poudre reminds you of the 15 minute limit _every time_, even if it is obvious you are moving very quickly and your gear is not blocking anyone else's equipment. What bothers me about this is not just the reminder, but the fact that they back up the request by reminding me a private trip will be coming through "at some point."


I understand your point, and that would piss me off too. But, I would imagine that attitude comes from a lot of shit shows on the ramp they have to deal with. It really sucks to plan and put forth the effort just to get treated like that when you are the good example they would like to use.


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## Grifgav

PhilipJFry said:


> this seems to be more of a problem in Colorado than it is in Idaho.


Well, I have seen lots of verbal altercations at the cabarton ramp on busy days...and heard of the sheriff having to be called because of fights. Mostly though folks here just lend a hand to help folks get out of the way, which keeps things friendly.


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## jbomb

On the John Day once we got caught up in a standoff between those who think you get your trailer on the ramp first and then get your boat to the ramp and those who think the opposite. There was a line of at least 10 vehicles going to the ramp and 18 boats lined up on the water for the ramp all out of order. Noone was willing to let anyone cut. What a cluster.


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## DoStep

So which is better? A free for all with dozens of boats competing for very limited ramp space or a permit system with fewer people and more ramp space (That last option assumes revenue goes toward site improvements). User days are only increasing from now on, so don't expect conditions to improve without some kind of paradigm shift in the general population (preferred but unlikely) or public agency intervention.

As an example, the AHRA puts a quarter million people on the river every year. Like it or not that a gov't agency is involved, things generally go pretty smooth considering that number. I don't see it going nearly as well with no management.


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## Montana Cat 65

PhilipJFry said:


> this seems to be more of a problem in Colorado than it is in Idaho.


I was thinking that last weekend at the Ramp at Spring Creek on the Main Salmon when all went well and groups communicated. Then today I pulled in and was holding back to pre-rig before backing down the ramp, and a pickup with ID plates (5C?) pulled onto the ramp, dropped their uninflated raft, their frame, dry boxes and cooler in the middle of the ramp ramp and began inflating the raft, effectively blocking anyone else from using the ramp. 
Really pissed me off and I (probably foolishly, but what the hell) confronted them and offered to help them move out of the way, since rigging on the ramp is not allowed. The guy tried to say it wouldn't take long, but I wasn't taking no for an answer.

Sigh. I grew up in Idaho and can attest that there are plenty of jerks here as well.


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## walterwhite

Isn't ramp manners common sense? I'm fairly new to rafting, but I always pull to the side and out of the way in the parking lot. I make sure everything is good to go and topped off. Takes me only a few minutes to put in and get the boat anchored out of the way. I was on the Madison a few weeks back and I saw probably 50 boat trailers in the parking lot and about 20 ready to put in. Some people were rigging up their fly rods in the boat ramp. It's fairly annoying to watch at times..


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## wyosam

It is common sense, but common sense isn't that common. 


Sent from my iPhone using Mountain Buzz


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## SKeen

Learch said:


> I understand your point, and that would piss me off too. But, I would imagine that attitude comes from a lot of shit shows on the ramp they have to deal with. It really sucks to plan and put forth the effort just to get treated like that when you are the good example they would like to use.


Agreed! Just had to get that one off my chest after getting rushed for no reason multiple times this season.


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## Skyman

Nothing is going to change and crowds will only get bigger. We had to wait for an hour at the Carey Creek boat ramp on Thursday just to start de-rigging. We did have a large group of 18 with 8 boats. 5 boats needed to be deflated. We let two smaller groups that had trailers go ahead of us as we would have taken up too much space at the ramp. It was the most efficient decision for everyone at the ramp. In reading many of the posts it seems that everyone thinks this is just about them. This is usually when I see the altercations at the ramp. Assess the situation at the ramp and take your pill of patience and communicate with the other folks at the ramp. Sometimes this is not always possible though.


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## poverty

Montana Cat 65 said:


> offered to help them move out of the way, since rigging on the ramp is not allowed.


 Is this true at this ramp or in a broader sense? I tried a web search and can't seem to find a reference to this restriction. I don't have a flatbed.


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## lmyers

poverty said:


> Is this true at this ramp or in a broader sense? I tried a web search and can't seem to find a reference to this restriction. I don't have a flatbed.


It's an unwritten rule of the river based on common courtesy.


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## Jungle Jane

"Only you can prevent ramp rage..." That made me laugh...Andy H. or whoever said it. What makes me sad: I am perpetually on river time. That is real time. Its so nice, because wherever you are on a river trip (well, except entering center of lava ledge hole....) is just where you want to be. i am in no hurry to ever get to take out...& I'm amazed when others are, or bitchy, in a hurry..."gotta get there......hurry, up, gotta get home.....' Yes there is crowding...the 'secret's out' (but there's a real reason commercial companies continue to exist....("professional passengers...please stop scooping up all the permits and then looking for real boatman with thousands of $$ in gear, years of experience to take you on a river trip....you know wht happens with some real high or low water years? Peaople actually discover it does take skill, experience, and it is inherently dangerous (albeit much less than driving to put-in.) But there's never a reason for road rage ramp rage, any kind of rage! Simple, basic courtesy/education, and TICKETS if necessary (they used to ticket the commercial busses with 7 boats, taking out at parkdale in the 80's, if they were parked there longer than 15 minutes. Many of us do not have private trailers, but there's a ton of derigging you can do night before, or even on the float to take out, where ramps are small. Just look around you and be situationally aware. Its funny how many trips race to takeout....I sleep in, got ramp all to myself. (And if someone is really rude, just fill their groover with rocks if you see them on river again!)


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## poverty

lmyers said:


> It's an unwritten rule of the river based on common courtesy.


I haven't boated the upper Colorado, but any trip I've been on there are always some people inflating/deflating their boats, sometimes commercials. I can't believe this is now "not OK". Isn't this "rule" just an excuse to hate? I'm with Jungle Jane, tolerance is the best way forward.


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## seantana

poverty said:


> I haven't boated the upper Colorado, but any trip I've been on there are always some people inflating/deflating their boats, sometimes commercials. I can't believe this is now "not OK". Isn't this "rule" just an excuse to hate? I'm with Jungle Jane, tolerance is the best way forward.


Unless there is absolutely no shore access other than the ramp itself, there's no excuse for deflating/inflating or rigging/de-rigging in the middle of the ramp. As long as you're not impeding others, no one should give you a second look, but if there's open beach/shore to the side of the ramp, that's where those activities should happen. Ramps are for vehicles, and the active loading and unloading of those vehicles, not for spreading out your gear and impeding traffic. Tolerance and understanding are two way streets, after all.


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## Conundrum

There's also lending a helping hand to other groups to get the train rolling. I always try to help commercials load boats and offer them a beer if they are in front of me at the take out. Commercials have always offered to help me move boats too. No beer offers in front of clients and no beer offers at all for other privates-they should have brought their own. I still offer them help though.

If someone is holding me up because of rigging/derigging on the ramp and won't take the help, I comment on how they could be doing it somewhere else as a matter of consideration to those who are prepared to get on or off the water. If they don't move, I enjoy a beer while watching them f*ck around with things. If they'll still are not done, I pull my trailer down their lane of the ramp, carry our boat/boats around to the trailer and pull out of the way to strap everything up.

This really isn't a tough process. Some people just don't get it either because they're dicks or they just don't know any better. Remember, everybody has a right to be an a$$hole. It's unfortunate that so many people have to exercise that right. Just don't let them ruin your day. They going to ruin theirs on their own.


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## lmyers

poverty said:


> I haven't boated the upper Colorado, but any trip I've been on there are always some people inflating/deflating their boats, sometimes commercials. I can't believe this is now "not OK". Isn't this "rule" just an excuse to hate? I'm with Jungle Jane, tolerance is the best way forward.


I have never seen a commercial trip inflate/deflate their boat on the ramp. They load everything on a trailer and do that at the office.... and I've seen plenty of commercial trips. 

No hating involved. It's about showing respect for your fellow river runner and not taking up more space than necessary at crowded access points.


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## mischief

*Per the Upper Colorado River guide*

Boat Ramps
Your trip begins here, before you actually get on the water, and your experience here can set the tone for your whole trip. Wait patiently for your turn. Use the ramp only for loading and unloading; put your gear and boat together off the ramp. Allow others to go before you if all they want to do is put a loaded boat into the water and take off. Be friendly, helpful and considerate.


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## Andy H.

mischief said:


> Be friendly, helpful and considerate.


This is the key.


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## BlueTurf

lmyers said:


> I have never seen a commercial trip inflate/deflate their boat on the ramp. They load everything on a trailer and do that at the office.... and I've seen plenty of commercial trips.


Tell that to the not one, but two commercial outfitters that took up all 4 lanes (2 lanes each) at Carey while taking off the main Salmon in early July. My group patiently waited for over an hour while they de-rigged, deflated and rolled all of their rafts. One of them even served their customers lunch taking away from the guides breaking down the boats. 

That's the thing about 'unwritten rules', you can't reference them so everyone has a different idea about what they are. Hammurabi would be ashamed.


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## raymo

*Dream loving!!!*

Stop living in a dream, it's not going to happen.


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## Hans n Franz

I can usually maneuver around stragglers and lot lizards at the ramp no problem. My day isn't hinged on their speed too much. It's my own group that kills me- another cig break, someone else has to poop now, forgot god knows what in the truck... drives me up the wall


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## FatmanZ

That's crazy they'd take up all four lanes at Carey - there's no need with those lanes being so long. With some multi-day trips where you have a single trailer requiring breakdown of the rafts and gear, there really isn't a good option other than to de-rig on the ramp, esp if you're stuck in a middle lane. However, there are ways to do it with great ramp manners. 
Last July with a big group 24 we pulled in to Carey with four rafts and five kayaks. The kids were all taken out of the way up and to the vehicles. Kayaks and small gear were all put to side of the ramp out of the way. Six of us then de-rigged rafts one by one on the ramp behind the trailer so as not to interfere with other lanes. We used the space between the trailer and the water, quickly breaking down the rafts one at a time, loading coolers and boxes into the trailer, rolling the raft, loading it and the frame, and onto the next raft. With the rafts we had in the water waiting to exit and de-rig, we kept them out of the way of other groups exiting. Once the big stuff was loaded we drove up and off the ramp to handle tie downs and finish work off the ramp. 



BlueTurf said:


> Tell that to the not one, but two commercial outfitters that took up all 4 lanes (2 lanes each) at Carey while taking off the main Salmon in early July. My group patiently waited for over an hour while they de-rigged, deflated and rolled all of their rafts. One of them even served their customers lunch taking away from the guides breaking down the boats.


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## LSB

These are the same jackasses who leave trash in the fire pit and poop behind a tree. They leave their bike laying in the trail when they stop and run their generators all night in the campground. And they all voted for Trump.


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## JustinJam

*A shout out for cool commercial group at Cisco*

I had a cool experience this week at Cisco. Local Moab guide service came in after we started derigging. Asked nicely if we could move our truck over so the could bring in their big trailer ( I was in the middle lane parked askew with other groups parked crazily). Main guide was super nice about it. I told pulled straight up so they could get in and load and get their clients moving. In the 3 minutes it took them to get their trailer down he organized his guides to help haul some of our bigger items up and helped haul our boat up the ramp. That type of consideration goes a long way in the boating community.


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## RiverRhino

North Umpqua Segment #1 a couple days ago. A company (with Whitewater in its name) guides pumping up their boats and giving his 20 minute safety talk on the ramp on his paddle boat. You know the boats that can be lifted and moved around quite easily by customers; While 4 oar boats waited on trailers. Asked the other two guides that were with him, if they could move to the parking area to be more efficient, fell to deaf ears. 
When it's a one lane ramp clear out!


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## Koffler

There was a comment about this earlier in the thread: What determines who is "in line first": The trailer at the ramp or the boat in the water??


I have my opinion (I also own a power boat), but I would like to hear what others have to say on this.......


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## [email protected]

Just got off the Snake at Pittsburg landing. We had 3 oar boats and were loaded and off the ramp (using 1 lane in 20 minutes. While we were doing that one lane was blocked by a power boater for long before we got there, till long after we left with a dead motor (not cool). We travel, load and unload rigged, stacking one boat. I'm embarrassed if we are on a ramp more than 30 minutes loading or unloading.


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## MT4Runner

JustinJam said:


> I had a cool experience this week at Cisco. Local Moab guide service came in after we started derigging. Asked nicely if we could move our truck over so the could bring in their big trailer ( I was in the middle lane parked askew with other groups parked crazily). Main guide was super nice about it. I told pulled straight up so they could get in and load and get their clients moving. In the 3 minutes it took them to get their trailer down he organized his guides to help haul some of our bigger items up and helped haul our boat up the ramp. That type of consideration goes a long way in the boating community.


Call them out by name. If anyone is ever looking for recommendations to hire a guide service out of Moab, it would be great to recommend a company who has great river ethics.


Conversely, bad news deserves to travel as well. 

There is one in my area I will NEVER recommend (ROW) and several I will heartily recommend--3Rivers, Lewis & Clark, and MT River guides. As a private boater, it's unlikely I will ever spend any of my money with these companies, but I'll happily send acquaintances to boat with them.




Koffler said:


> There was a comment about this earlier in the thread: What determines who is "in line first": The trailer at the ramp or the boat in the water??
> 
> I have my opinion (I also own a power boat), but I would like to hear what others have to say on this.......


Both.

I'm both a rafter and a power boater. There is nothing more maddening than someone who ties up the ramp with a rig and trailer and the boat isn't ready to launch or load. There is also nothing more maddening than someone who ties up the ramp/dock with a boat and the truck/trailer is nowhere to be seen.

Drop your vehicle driver on shore near the ramp/dock and either tie up away from the ramp/dock, or drop anchor and wait for them. When your vehicle is backing down, motor/oar to your place and load quickly.

If you're rigging/derigging, rig/derig as much as possible on shore near the ramp. Sometimes this can even include staging coolers/dryboxes/oars if space permits.


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## jakebrown98

I’ve spent nearly twenty year loading and unloading and rigging with rolled up boats and I’ve never been in the way of the folks who choose to travel inflated and rigged. I’ve used ramps but only to unload quickly and off to the side. I never rig on a ramp and I’m aware of others’ needs. 

Over Memorial Day I finally did the whole flatbed thing on the Rogue around Hellgate and Almeda and damn if I wasn’t stymied by people rudely blocking the ramp on multiple occasions. I don’t even know what to say to people. I mean get out of the effing way. There are even marked places off to the side to do your prep or rigging. It is so obvious that you should be fast and some are so slow. 

I figure those are the folks the Sabre tooth cats used to take care of...


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## MontanaMule

MT4Runner said:


> Drop your vehicle driver on shore near the ramp/dock and either tie up away from the ramp/dock, or drop anchor and wait for them. When your vehicle is backing down, motor/oar to your place and load quickly.
> 
> If you're rigging/derigging, rig/derig as much as possible on shore near the ramp. Sometimes this can even include staging coolers/dryboxes/oars if space permits.


It really is this simple. Yet it's amazing how many people cannot figure it out.


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## smhoeher

I started this thread last year and there is still a lot of great commentary and like it. I can admit, lately, that my trailer backing is weak. Something I've done lately, to make things easier for me and all of you, is hook up me trailer and drive to a vacant nearby parking lot and practice, practice, practice. See you all on the river!


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## NoCo

I prefer to park sideways so my car battery is closer to the river. Scream up 4 boats layed parallel to the river so my cord on the screamer only has to go accross the boat not length wise. I leave my car and trailer in that possition while we rig so no one backs over my 4 dogs off of leashes or my hyperactive kids. Remember safety is my most important goal. It is always fn important to fn swear all the fn time so that when the shuttle drivers eventually leave they will fn know the fn importance of driving fast. I never worry about boats landing cause it's a put in and they are obviously chicken shit and may need a bit of encouragement to fn man up and run it. 

At the take out it is important to take up as much beach as possible so everyone can get there beer cans out of the boat (if any stayed in) without getting there feet wet this way there feet will be dry in the car. I always stack my boats as high as I can and get extra points if I can hit someone else's car with the metal end of a ratchet straps as I throw it over the big fn mess of a stack I got.

Remember everyone else on the river is not with you so f em!!!!! I pay taxes and my tax dollars pay for the river access! I don't know what everyone else's pays for but it's probably a bike lane in la junta or something so they can wait!

And it is always a good idea to throw your trash in the toilets. Co parks just puts those signs up cause they are lazy! 

And if you got a problem with any of this I'm always willing to staighten you out with a beating!


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## LeftOfCenter

*I'll Just Leave This Here...*

Ramp User Species
The phylum ‘ramp users’ is divided into three main genuses: kayakers, rafters, and flotsam & jetsam. Within each of these genuses there are myriad varieties of species.

...

https://community.nrs.com/duct-tape/2016/12/24/audubon-field-guide-native-ramp-life/


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