# Ideas on making the GF more comfortable in the water.



## Paul the Kayaker (Nov 7, 2004)

I'd say if your plan is to swim her to make her more comfortable in the water she may not be your girlfriend for long... 

On a more realistic note, get her a drysuit, a better higher float PFD, and a really good helmet. Make her feel safe and warm and keep her at the top of the water when she swims. 

Good luck though, hope you report back in July after a few good June swims.


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## Fly By Night (Oct 31, 2018)

I don't think swimming her is a good idea. There are enough people on here with wives and kids I bet there are some techniques to making the transition.


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## Andy H. (Oct 13, 2003)

Paul the Kayaker said:


> I'd say if your plan is to swim her to make her more comfortable in the water she may not be your girlfriend for long...
> 
> On a more realistic note, get her a drysuit, a better higher float PFD, and a really good helmet. Make her feel safe and warm and keep her at the top of the water when she swims.


^^^^^This, for starters - the drysuit, good PFD and helmet, warm booties, gloves, be ready to suit her up until it's hot out. The next thing would be scale back your ambitions of having her challenged from the word go. Get out on some mellower water. Remember that she may not be as gung ho as you and may be doing the whole thing out of her love for you, rather than for excitement and thrills. If she loves you enough to do stuff that scares the hell out her, maybe you should be ready to spend time with her on mellow desert floats and places where the scenery is more of an attraction than the whitewater.

If you really want her to swim a rapid, the Little D wave train on Westwater is a good swim in July or August when the water's warm and the flow's down.

-AH


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## DoStep (Jun 26, 2012)

Durango has a sweet river park right?

I'd go down there weekly on a nice hot summer low-flow day with PFD's (wetsuit too?) and lots of people around (mostly way younger than us) and an IK and/or a SUP and/or boogie board and/or whatever other river toys are available and just build confidence in a low risk setting.

That strategy was very successful while I raised school aged kids, and their training definitely incorporated the 'swim her' method more than once, and always within controlled conditions. But breaking in grown-ups can be a different story. Good luck!


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## gazzy902 (Dec 21, 2018)

Giver her some vodka and huck her in the drink!!!!


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## k2andcannoli (Feb 28, 2012)

Swimming rapid for fun will absolutely help with confidence. Surfing the holes at the Animas play park will help. Those babies will chunder the hell out of ya at higher water. Practice hanging out in an eddy, swimming into the current and getting back to shore within a certain distance down stream.


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## Spintowin (May 23, 2018)

Is this question for real? Sounds like you have already scared the hell out of her bud. I don't think the concern at the time should be getting her comfortable with a swim but rather you being more comfortable with the water you are taking her on (if she even wants to go on, this should never be something forced). Proper training on your end and also appropriate water for her comfort level and your skill level should be a primary focus.


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## jamesthomas (Sep 12, 2010)

Spintown has it right. Does she have a legit phobia about water? If she does you are asking alot. Like taking someone with a fear of heights up El Cap in Yosemite. You need to find out exactly what's up with her fear of water before you try to "swim her". If she has a legit phobia about water you are probably never going to get her over it. Legit phobias are kind of hard wired into the brain stem IMHO. By the way, if she does have a true fear of water and she's willing to go boating with you she really gives a shit about you.


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## 2tomcat2 (May 27, 2012)

Phobia or not, a fear of any type of situation, from public speaking to running Lava, may be helped by doing the "What if ?" scenarios. In a safe environment, she can talk out, visualize and come up with possible solutions to the situation of taking a swim. It is often the not knowing what might happen that creates anxiety.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

Paul the Kayaker said:


> I'd say if your plan is to swim her to make her more comfortable in the water she may not be your girlfriend for long...
> 
> On a more realistic note, get her a *drysuit*, a better higher float PFD, and a really good helmet. Make her feel safe and warm and keep her at the top of the water when she swims.


The drysuit is key, and make sure it has booties.

Staying warm and dry inside during and after the swim makes things a LOT less unpleasant. It's sometimes the memories of being near-hypothermic that people associate with the unpleasantness even more than the swim.





jamesthomas said:


> Spintown has it right. Does she have a legit phobia about water? If she does you are asking alot. Like taking someone with a fear of heights up El Cap in Yosemite. You need to find out exactly what's up with her fear of water before you try to "swim her".  If she has a legit phobia about water you are probably never going to get her over it. Legit phobias are kind of hard wired into the brain stem IMHO. By the way, if she does have a true fear of water and she's willing to go boating with you she really gives a shit about you.



^^^

My wife is not a water bug. We've been together 24 years, and I've been fortunate to get her snorkeling 3x on tropical vacations (the first one was not fun, the next one was 8 years later). 

She's run the Lochsa with me 3x in 11 years...first time was the first year, raft she was in flipped, she swam, and it was another 6 years before I got her on again.

See the theme? People with water phobias aren't willing to just jump back in and conquer their fears.

I've never had her on a multiday, she's afraid to camp in tents near bears. I'm crossing my fingers to get her on a Main trip in the next few years to show her a really fun multiday.


I'm fortunate that she loves to go with me to the Lochsa and camp in the motorhome and she's willing to run shuttle, stay up late, drink beer, and sleep by the river. 

As jamesthomas said, if you can get her on the river at all, you're doing well. Stick to mellow class II-III runs and get her a drysuit. If you want to try to get her swimming in comfort, find some rad women to take her out and get her swimming in easy rapids. You should be nowhere near the scene, or just run shuttle. It's NEVER a good idea for spouses/significant others to train each other, and women will have a more supportive/encouraging environment for her than you could ever envision.


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## Conundrum (Aug 23, 2004)

Practice swimming in a controlled environment. Then take her out on a raft, make it fun, and show her you're competent.

I'm not afraid of water and I don't like duckies that much. I'd rather be on some oars or in a kayak. If I were afraid of water, I think about the only time I'd be okay is on the front of raft with someone who knows what they're doing taking me down. And I'd like a day cooler with my favorite beverages at my feet, a comfortable bed at night, and good food.

I'm not implying you're not good at rowing. If you're not an expert which is okay, stick her on the front of a boat with someone who is. Phobias are tough...give her every chance to have fun and maybe get over her fear. She may never which makes a lame trip for both of you.


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## shappattack (Jul 17, 2008)

you knew this was coming, unless you own a house together or have kids, life is too short.
if she is just a girl "friend" get another girl "friend" that likes what you like (mostly). and vice versa, you like what she likes (mostly).


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## [email protected] (Jun 1, 2010)

shappattack said:


> you knew this was coming, unless you own a house together or have kids, life is too short.
> if she is just a girl "friend" get another girl "friend" that likes what you like (mostly). and vice versa, you like what she likes (mostly).



I could not disagree more. I have the perfect wife. She hates camping, fishing, rafting, snowmobiling and being outdoors in general. Since that is what I spend 1/2 my life doing, it makes the time we do spend together much more special. 


PS: My 50th wedding anniversary is June 20th 2019, so we must be doing something right.


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## FlyingDutchman (Mar 25, 2014)

I love the conflicting opinions from shapp and bighorn...LoL. Both say it perfectly.

If you love ‘er, I recommend only boating with the lady when it’s warm and sunny. I she loves you, she’ll drive shuttle and reads a book on the poor weather days.


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## elkhaven (Sep 11, 2013)

Fly By Night said:


> Hey everyone,
> 
> My GF has has some issues with water in the past (I forget what happened). She did well on my ducky going through some descent water last year, as I get into boating this year I'd like to get her more comfortable in the water for when she swims, do you have any suggestions? I know I worried much less about falling out of a boat after swimming through a few rapids.


Do you guys read? She did well last year in some decent water.... he's looking to make her more comfortable. It it was a serious phobia, I doubt she would have tried at all last year.... This isn't a should I take her question....!!!

I will say fly by night, that it would be imperative to "remember" what happened as that and the extent of her fear will undoubtedly direct your future route with her...IF and only IFF she is comfortable with it, swimming would be great, start in a small eddy, swim out to the current line float down repeat, get bigger over time... start with something she is totally fine and work her up. The fear of what could happen and the fear of the shock of being thrown in unprepared (again???) is very likely a large portion of her "issues". Most importantly, don't take her somewhere that she will accidentally swim until she's comfortable with that possibility....or yeah you'll be single again quickly!

My GF's son is petrified to swim but loves being in the boat and around and in water.... he just won't let his feet leave the bottom... it's caused me some stress as I and my boys (same basic age) have tried to get him to eddy swim and such with very limited success. We're bound for some pool time this winter to work on him.... in his case the fear is unfounded, nothing has ever happened to him and I think once he just releases he'll be fine... Just gotta be patient getting him there!

On the other note, I had a wife with whom I did everything with and in part, that's why the had.... separate loves and activities are important too. Now, my GF and I share lots of loves but also have things we do on our own, or share more rarely, that way we each get times to ourselves. It seems so much more sustainable to me. That's just my $.02 on that concept...


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

elkhaven said:


> Do you guys read? She did well last year in some decent water.... he's looking to make her more comfortable. It it was a serious phobia, I doubt she would have tried at all last year.... This isn't a should I take her question....!!!



Fine, but I stand by my previous statement:





MT4Runner said:


> If you want to try to get her swimming in comfort, find some rad women to take her out and get her swimming in easy rapids. You should be nowhere near the scene, or just run shuttle.  It's NEVER a good idea for spouses/significant others to train each other, and women will have a more supportive/encouraging environment for her than you could ever envision.


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## raymo (Aug 10, 2008)

Some specific situation's can be very unnerving to some people, be careful. When I had my first new born the trauma I went through was unbelievable. We went through birthing training (Lamaze classes ) for two months, read literature, ect. When the time finely came I was definitely not prepaired. She look at me and said you son-of-bitch, your did this to me, I will never forgive you this, it is all your doing, I will get even with you so don't close your eyes at night. So tread lightly in the waters with your GF it could scar you for life. Or she could be completely fine with it, a little bit of positive encouragement and slow exposure to the river environment could help both of you build many fun river memories. Good luck.


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## elkhaven (Sep 11, 2013)

I couldn't agree more on spouses training each other.... but I don't really see this as serious training issue, more of identifying fears and possibly working through them together... something that can be great for a couple, or catastrophic.... depending on communication.


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## Conundrum (Aug 23, 2004)

"Decent water in a ducky and getting more into boating".

That could mean a lot of things. Definition of "decent". Did he rent a ducky for some class II or is he some sort of self support class V duckier?

Not sure I'd get in a boat with the guy either until I understood his definition of decent water and his experience which sounds somewhat newish.


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## jgrebe (Jan 16, 2010)

Most/many people feel uncomfortable when they are not in control. Give her the sticks on some calm water. Teach her to read the water. Ask her advice heading into a rapid. The more she feels in control (or understands why you are doing things) the more comfortable she will be


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## shappattack (Jul 17, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> ...I spend 1/2 my life doing, it makes the time we do spend together much more special.


We do nearly all our big trips together, which makes 99% of our entire life more special 

I have had it both ways, we were married for several years doing all the trips together we still enjoy, kayaking, canoeing, rafting, hiking, camping, skiing, snorkeling, etc. etc. then my wife had a period of several years with a significant health problem that prevented her from doing just about all outside activities. I had to keep doing some trips just to stay sane (which see encouraged). Luckily over several years she learned how to manage the condition and it actually has gotten a lot better, and she eventually got back to doing the same outdoor activities. Having experienced years without her on big trips, its a no brainer, those trips are 1000% better with her there, than at home.

It would be hard to imagine having a life partner that you couldn't share the experience, challenge, and beauty of the MF Salmon off the top from Boundary Creek in late August, the remote and rugged Dirty Devil River in February, the moment you uncover a 7 million year old camelid femur at the top of Lambert Dome on the Owyhee, a canoe chain in Alaska living off rice and fish you caught for a week, These are life changing experiences. You are not the same after you return from these types of trips. If you had a significant other that did not share those same experiences, something in you will have changed, but that would have not happened within them.

50 to 60 years ago I imagine more women were content at home with the kids while the men were out doing "men" stuff in the woods. I suspect that bighorn probably has children with his wife. I wonder if they did not have children to tie them together if after 50 years spending 1/2 his time away would have the same results. 

Heading to costa Rica together shortly for the 20th wedding anniversary to do some jungle exploring, IK and sea kayaking, snorkeling and dirt bagging in the Corcovado for a couple weeks. 

One tip of advice for the younger ones, do not, and I repeat, do not try to teach your significant other how to do anything (driving, kayaking, skiing, cooking, anything). Finding a club that can teach, a friend, or pay for lessons, it is well worth it


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## Fly By Night (Oct 31, 2018)

Wow its been quiet around here but this sure livened everyone up! 




shappattack said:


> you knew this was coming, unless you own a house together or have kids, life is too short.
> if she is just a girl "friend" get another girl "friend" that likes what you like (mostly). and vice versa, you like what she likes (mostly).


After reading and thinking about all the replies I received this advise really resonates with me. When she gets home tonight I'm thinking of the following "Hey babe you don't really float my boat, pack your bags" then "Hazzahh! You've been Shappattacked" While karate chopping in the air. :wink:

Now for phase 2, looking for chicks that don't shower or shave at the health food store.


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## stewart242 (Sep 18, 2015)

Wow, this thread has become a wealth of points of view! Okay, here goes one of mine...


One thing I found really helpful for getting more comfortable swimming whitewater was swimming at the beach (SoCal). I'm not sure how to compare the POWER of ocean waves with river waves, but a good deal of the waves you run into on popular Rocky Mountain Rivers runs aren't much bigger (or even as big) as beach waves you find in SoCal. Splashing, getting tossed around by, and getting crashed on by beach waves I found really helped. You can assume the defensive swimming position when rollers come crashing in, for instance. Now the rocks you get in rapids add another complication, and river waves come at you a whole lot more frequently than ocean waves, but the beach might not be a bad place to start...


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

Seems we've all missed the obvious, "Get her drunk/try mushrooms" post. 

Winter Buzz is seriously slacking.


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## Fly By Night (Oct 31, 2018)

Thanks everyone for the input, I got some great advice, especially from those that are still coupled up. I especially like idea of starting to float in eddie's and slow current and work from there, hopefully my SanJuan permit goes through. We also talked about running the white water park in Durango weekly as the water goes up to slowly get more comfortable with bigger and bigger stuff.

The root of all this was an incident when she was a kid, she went to swim under some of the square floaty pads in a lake, got stuck under them and panicked. She has reservations about the water to be sure but I wouldn't say has a phobia. 

Last summer we ran the Durango white water park a few times in my ducky and she did great even sitting up front and looking smelter right in the teeth. I think so long as she stays in the boat everything is good, it's the swim scenario that I think will freak her out. For you not familiar the Durango white water park is rated class III-IV, it was lower water when we ran it last year so I'd say it was in the class III range. 

I duckied the Salt two years ago and survived, I'm certainly not an accomplished IK'er but I can hold my own.


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## lncoop (Sep 10, 2010)

Fly By Night said:


> "Hazzahh! You've been Shappattacked" While karate chopping in the air. :wink:


Just choked on my water. You've been Shappattacked LOL! I will say I spent 21 years with someone who had absolutely zero interest in going "out there" with me. Zero. We had other issues for sure, but that divergence played a large role in the eventual demise of our marriage. Just under three years later we get along much better and I have a GF who lives for our trips "out there". There are times she can't go, either because the trip's a bit much for her or it just doesn't work out logistically, but it sure is nice sharing all that with her.


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## [email protected] (Jun 1, 2010)

Quote shappattack: 50 to 60 years ago I imagine more women were content at home with the kids while the men were out doing "men" stuff in the woods. I suspect that bighorn probably has children with his wife. I wonder if they did not have children to tie them together if after 50 years spending 1/2 his time away would have the same results.

I thought I would answer some of shappattack's questions. Fifty or sixty years ago some women (where I lived) were enjoying the sexual revolution that was inspired by better birth control solutions. Some marched in support of Roe vs wade, some against it. Some protested the Vietnam war. Some camped and rafted (my wife included). Some danced to drums topless in the city park while smoking pot, or doing other less friendly drugs. Many women were not content with staying home to raise kids, although some certainly did choose to do just that. My wife decided she did not enjoy outdoor activities and thankfully never resented me having some different hobbies, interests than she did.
Shapp is correct, my wife and I have kids. We have two daughters and three grand kids by them. Both daughters (as do my grand kids), raft with me, fly fish with me, snowmobile with me, ski with other people (not me), and camp with me or their friends and other family members. My wife decided early on in our marriage that her favorite non-domestic activities included traveling with her gal pals that love shopping. Going to theme parks with the Grand kids, reading, Avalanche hockey games, etc. She put a large amount of effort into becoming a successful business person. She takes great pride in being her own independent person. She knows she can always count on me being there when she needs me, but also knows she does not have to rely on me or anyone else.
Would we still be together without kids? Definitely shapp we would. Kids, like rafting together, are not the glue that binds married people together. Just one of many bonuses of a great marriage. Not a necessity for one..


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## Uncle Skwid (Oct 7, 2016)

With so many wise and divergent possibilities out there, I thought I’d go ahead and spread my own bad idea all over the landscape, it being a slow Thursday night here on the east coast, and cold, and dark, and full of the kind of hope that consumed the ice age. But at some point in your thought process, perhaps you might consider, almost simply, Opening Your Relationship, and curbing this sort of toxic philosophy to which so many of us subscribe, that insists on that ONE magical superwoman—or superman—who will fulfill our every need and share our every interest (and you their’s!). EITHER your girlfriend becomes a dirtbag with you, OR you ditch her, OR you toss her in the drink (with ample alcohol and/or hallucinogenics), OR you give up paddling, OR you remain celibate on the river from here on out, OR some other such nonsense. What about all the interests you DO share with her? Perhaps let her come to paddling on her own? Perhaps leave her alone about the river already? 

I, for one, would never want to share a mortgage, or finances, or children, with a dirtbag paddler. I’ve had a wonderful wife for just those interests for these past twenty-seven years. My wife doesn’t share my interest in adverse vacations to what are often difficult places: days of driving, becoming SAND, the impossible slowness of what we want, the arduous work of having struggles and problems in the middle of nowhere... And I certainly do not FAULT her for that, nor do I attempt to convince her that she must join me or get banned forever to the next ice age in one ginormous chop. We have built a wonderful life together outside of the river. On the other hand, I MIGHT also enjoy spending two or three weeks with said dirtbag paddler (provided she gets dunked often and deeply in the cleansing waters of said desert—and provided one did not forget the wet wipes), sleeping in the desert, brushing off tarantulas, shitting in a tube, and getting trashed in gigantic holes at the bottom of deep canyons. And then: candlelight dinners over potted meat and ramens. It’s not for everyone—the desert, candlelight dinners, ice ages—I guess I mean to say. Or maybe I’m saying that you might consider a less rigid and perhaps a more multi-amorous approach, which is also NOT FOR EVERYONE. But you’re both adults, I would assume. You both have your own interests. You can both communicate in complete and logical sentences. You both have NEED SETS. Maybe talk about finding yourself a river girlfriend WITHOUT giving the ‘ole karate chop to the primary girlfriend, or nesting partner, or flippin’ wife or whatever in the hell she is becoming. 

There may not be anything wrong with that—or there may be! Lawd there may be!—provided you can shake off social norms and provided everything is kept ethical, consensual, above board (the French method of keeping it all under board proves to be toxic, in the end, much of the time). Use your words. And then, remember, she might find it fun as well to find her own interests while you’re lost deep in the canyons, and you might have to be okay with that as well... But that is where the magic, and emotional growth, begins to happen, and you realize you don’t, in fact, have to be the perfectly complete Superman you always thought you were...

I mean, I’m not saying I SUBSCRIBE to this idea, just putting it out there as another possibility.


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## kanoer2 (Mar 5, 2011)

Years ago, best friend took his GF in an IK down a class 3+ run and she swam the first 2 drops. yes it was stupid, but the commercial guys were taking novices down said river. Basically she walked and dragged that IK the rest of the way down the river. She still married him, but hasn't been in any kind of boat since.

I think he pushed her way to fast, with the thought that inflatables are so forgiving it wouldn't be an issue.

Start real slow and work at her comfort zone, even if that means you're "struck" doing class1+ for a year. Remember, you too were a beginner and someone took you under their wing☺


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## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

Is she interested in boating? Have you asked her what she wants to do, and not do? Start there, listen to her as she is then only one that can guide you. Whereever she wants to start, go down one notch to really build her confidence. My hubby had/has some issues with water and wanted nothing to do with the Lochsa for years. Eventually, he did, and I started him very slow and conservative. Yes, SO instruction can work, as there was really no one else he trusted enough to stay focused with/on him. A big thing that helped was that each run I focused on what he needed and wanted, and I frquently checked in and asked him those questions. I made sure her knew he always had the option of stopping and taking out. He never did, but I believe knowing he really had the choice helped him keep going. Feeling trapped feeds fear. Doing something by choice is empowering. Now he is a rabid big water Lochsa fiend.

+10 on the high float pfd. They make swimming so much more pleasant.

Consider a swift water rescue class with her. Riverboarding is also a cool and less scary way to get the feel of swimming the river.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

lhowemt said:


> My hubby had/has some issues with water and wanted nothing to do with the Lochsa for years. Eventually, he did, and I started him very slow and conservative.
> 
> 
> 
> Doing something by choice is empowering. Now he is a rabid big water Lochsa fiend.



When I saw him down there 3-4 years ago with some other cat boaters and you weren't there...I knew he was hooked!!

I've decided it's not worth family harmony to push my wifey toward the Lochsa. I realize it's waymorebetter that she chooses to head down there and camp with me, but to keep her feet dry. I'd rather she join me for all the mellow times in camp than to resist fully and stay at home.


I'm pretty excited, though, that she's willing to do a Main run with me, and even put in for her own permit. In her mind's eye, all Idaho whitewater is the Lochsa, and I'm looking forward to showing her the gorgeous mellowness that is the Main.


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## Fly By Night (Oct 31, 2018)

lhowemt said:


> Is she interested in boating? Have you asked her what she wants to do, and not do? Start there, listen to her as she is then only one that can guide you.


She enjoyed ducky time last year, I think she'll be more excited about being on a boat. I haven't asked what she is and isn't into, she has limited experience on the river so I think most of it's an unknown for her, I want to explore with her in low risk situations and see what she gravitates towards. Maybe that ends up being just float and bloat multi days (she loves camping) but I suspect she'll take to more then that.


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## Fly By Night (Oct 31, 2018)

Thanks! I got a good chuckle out of that, I expected more of a reaction. 



lncoop said:


> Fly By Night said:
> 
> 
> > "Hazzahh! You've been Shappattacked" While karate chopping in the air.
> ...


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## James20 (Mar 6, 2019)

Haha good luck with that!


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