# Smith River Montana GPS for camps Info



## spider (Jun 20, 2011)

I'm going down the smith April 11. I'll bring gps and mark waypoints of our camps. The group I'm going with has done it a bunch and knows the good camps. This will be my 2nd trip, the first one is pretty fuzzy.


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## okieboater (Oct 19, 2004)

Thanks Spider, hope the weather co operates and you all have a great trip.
dave


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## spider (Jun 20, 2011)

Any thing is better than the weather in north Dakota. It will be good fishing this time. Our last trip it rained hard for the whole trip. 1 fish 8" and we were fishing most of the time. Sounds like you have a prime slot.


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## okieboater (Oct 19, 2004)

Yup, a couple of us are fly rod fisherman. Having said that if it is legal to catch for the frying pan - we may bring a couple ultra light spin rigs as well.

Our first time up there and pretty excited about it.


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## spider (Jun 20, 2011)

I used to fly fish a lot. Now that I own a boat I find myself on the oars instead of fishing. When I fish now I use an ultra light spinner with rapalas, it's way easier to break out and stow away on the flats. You can keep fish on the smith just check the reg's on size restrictions. Are you comming from OK? If so you should hit the belt creek sluice box canyon. It's close to the smith and a super cool day float.


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## Billy Goat (Feb 3, 2011)

Nothing will come up on ya too fast. The majority of camps have signs. I have a list with what your looking for and will try to post it or send it to you. It's on an old drive. We will hit Belt Cr sometime.....probably...around 6/1,2,3..maybe earlier not later. As Spider eluded, it is a killer float, IMO better geology. 
I tried to give you a sample of pics of Belt Crk but I always get some F*in error msg. Not sure what the problem is...


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## glenn (May 13, 2009)

Somewhere on the web there is a comparison of Smith River flows as a barometer for Belt Cr. We ran belt last year on 6-09 and 6-10 with the smith reading 875 and 775 respectively. The flow didn't feel that different on belt, but I would consider either day bordering on the bottom end of worth it. The canyon is gorgeous, even with the mess all the mining left. I would look for the smith to 800 to bother. We saw a couple of groups out, mostly fishing types who weren't having any luck.

Also there is a ton of wood ready to move. Any kind of major flow event could shut down the whole run because of the nature of the lower box canyon.


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## Happy406 (Jan 13, 2013)

Billy Goat said:


> Nothing will come up on ya too fast. The majority of camps have signs. I have a list with what your looking for and will try to post it or send it to you. It's on an old drive. We will hit Belt Cr sometime.....probably...around 6/1,2,3..maybe earlier not later. As Spider eluded, it is a killer float, IMO better geology.
> I tried to give you a sample of pics of Belt Crk but I always get some F*in error msg. Not sure what the problem is...


Pls post it! I have a permit for May 31st. Gracias!


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## spider (Jun 20, 2011)

Billy Goat said:


> Nothing will come up on ya too fast. The majority of camps have signs. I have a list with what your looking for and will try to post it or send it to you. It's on an old drive. We will hit Belt Cr sometime.....probably...around 6/1,2,3..maybe earlier not later. As Spider eluded, it is a killer float, IMO better geology.
> I tried to give you a sample of pics of Belt Crk but I always get some F*in error msg. Not sure what the problem is...


That's when we hit it last year. Sweet camp spot on the right with a surf wave and Eddie. Pm me when you go my birthday is the 3rd I was planning to make it a tradition and doing it again this year. 

Hope the logs don't cause an issue. I always pack a chainsaw for wood anyway.


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## AirEms (Jan 16, 2011)

okie,
The GPS info you are looking for is on the float map you will get at the put in when you get your boat tags from the ranger. The map is called Smith River State Park & River Corridor Recreation Map. You may be able to get one online before hand at www.riverratmaps.com. The map has GPS for all camp sites and points of interest like pictographs and such. It also has lot of general floating and area info. Also if you google" Montana stream flow" you will get the USGS water flow site. Go to Upper Missouri River Basin and scroll down to Smith River, eagle Cr. and Smith R. near Eden. These guages are just below the put in and a little above the take out. Enjoy the float, it's a good one.


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## okieboater (Oct 19, 2004)

Thanks AirEms, I went to the website, found a retailer for the maps in Great Falls and sent them a email asking how to order.

Mountain Buzz members come thru again.

I appreciate all the information. The more I find out about Smith River, the more excited I get about the float. 

Dave


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## Billy Goat (Feb 3, 2011)

A couple Belt Crk shots. As Glenn eluded, wood can be an issue. Fortunately, it is a state park and the rangers will attempt to survey it pretty early and even clear it if necessary. It is very vertical in the Sluice Box section with incredibly deep undercuts, when it's low there are caves you can enter entirely coated with crystals. At floatable levels you don't even know they are there. The only other hazards are old metal and concrete bridge piers. There used to be a railroad that went through this valley. Take home message is "stay in the boat!"


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## spider (Jun 20, 2011)

belt creek

Theres a sweet boat cave river right at the top of the canyon, we put 3 boats in it and checked out the crazy big room in there. It looked like folks had camped in there but it was a bit musty and there was a dead rat in there.


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## rbrain (Aug 30, 2010)

You may have already seen this but I noticed that the Montana crew has been hard at work. This was recently added with some GPS points for camps.

Smith River - Camp Baker to Eden Bridge - River Brain


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## mtriverrat (Jan 29, 2012)

My favorite camps are Indian Springs, Sunset Cliffs, Canyon Depth, and Ridgetop. There are few camps that are awful, these are just the prettiest.


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## spider (Jun 20, 2011)

*Is that boat overloaded?*

heres a couple of the smith, I thought I had some of the campsites but I guess not. I'll take some pics of the camps in 10 days when I go


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## mtriverrat (Jan 29, 2012)

I love the wood pile. We're going in April and I keep telling my hubby I want a pile of wood like that. Of course I would have to put him or me in the duckie to do it, but I think that's workable....


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## spider (Jun 20, 2011)

mtriverrat said:


> I love the wood pile. We're going in April and I keep telling my hubby I want a pile of wood like that. Of course I would have to put him or me in the duckie to do it, but I think that's workable....


On that trip we didnt even need to bring wood, the wind blew trees down all over the place. We had plenty to keep us warm during the rain storm that lasted the whole trip.


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## okieboater (Oct 19, 2004)

Great photos and thanks, really enjoying them

Keep on posting your photos!!

dave


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## David Miller (May 23, 2010)

*National Geographic TOPO Maps*

I use my gps a lot for rafting and for backpacking act. If you're willing to go the 100 bucks a state it works great. You can follow the map on your computer screen and create waypoints anywhere you want. At the highest resolution you are using USGS Quads so you have the detail necessary to find almost anything.

When you have you route all laid out you just download the waypoints to you GPS and away you go. If you have waypoints from another source you can move the pointer and watch the coordinates change on the bottom of the screen or you can just enter them numerically and it will move the pointer to that spot then just save the waypoint and download.

One caution if you use Mac the new operating systems aren't compatible with the software. Last supported OS was Snow Leopard 10.6.


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## spider (Jun 20, 2011)

This new garmin oregon 650 would be nice, just snap a photo and it marks the waypoint and the camera is pretty nice. I cant bring myself to buy one yet @ almost 500$. so far I've lost one to water in Scull, never worked after we got worked and broke another one so I am skeptical about getting another one but they sure are sweet.


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## okieboater (Oct 19, 2004)

I have a Garmin GPSmap76CXs for several years now. It is supposed to be waterproof but the snap in caps over the various contacts don't look waterproof to me. I use it in the raft but stick it in a ziploc going into rapids. It has been down a bunch of rivers, trails etc etc and works pretty good. 

It lays dowm waypoints along the river but creates routes from way point to way point in a straight line. So miles between way points is off to some degree. Or at least I have not found a way to make the routing function to follow the river bed from way point to way point. But, I also have the Garman Mapsource computer app that looks like a toposheet but scale is a bit larger. 
when I use it on the river I can get pretty good estimates as I put in rapids river mile posts attractions camps etc. I find it very helpful going down a river the first time or any time there is a hike to an attraction along the way.

There is a outfit called RiverMaps that does guide books with GPS data and they are really nice to work with.

I hear the Delorme GPS units newest model is pretty good and their map system is just like topo sheets. But feed back is they are hard to figure out with confusing instructions. I will stick with my Garmin till it dies. I have had it really wet from splash and so far it has survived just fine. I would not drop it in the water tho, that is the reason for a ziploc and it goes into a rocket box entering rapids.


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## David Miller (May 23, 2010)

*IMO cheaper is better*

Have had a Garmin ETrex for years. Does everything I want. I wouldn't buy the more expensive models. Waste of money unless you use the extra features and memory. 

I do keep it in a ziplock.

With some GPS units you can adjust the rate that waypoints are added while you are laying down a route and you will get a better track at the expense of using more memory.


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## spider (Jun 20, 2011)

Whitewatercampsites.com has photos of all the camps. Pretty cool site actually


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## spider (Jun 20, 2011)

Just got back. We did sheep wagon, frounhoffer, and lower givens gulch. Sunset was a nice camp for views. The rangers can steer you clear of the open exposed camps. Fishing was decent. Wind was a bit brutal on day 4. It snowed daily. It was a bit low on day 1. 18' boat went down ok.


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## okieboater (Oct 19, 2004)

spider, great to hear the trip went well.

Looking forward to our trip in June.

I did get the GPS waypoints and the map. So we are ready to navigate.

dave


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## Mick Zugaza (Mar 3, 2013)

Thanks! Very helpful.


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## spider (Jun 20, 2011)

Oh I forgot to mention, we had a boat break an oar. That's two oars on two smith trips where we had oar issues. Theres some tight turns in there. And you need to bring lots of wood.


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## spider (Jun 20, 2011)

Heres a couple pics.


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## andanna (May 18, 2013)

*help this first timer?*

Interesting thread as we have permit for 6/13. First time and excited but nervous for this adventure. Current plan is to use canoe. Is this a bad idea as I see from the FWP info only 10% do this. Have beginner rowing skills. See this site as more use of kayaks and rafts but know some of you have experience with the Smith. Loved hearing the feedback of those who have already been this year! Thanks in advance for any thoughts how using a canoe would be.


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## spider (Jun 20, 2011)

My buddy took a canoe down before he had a raft. I also saw 2 canoes in April when I was there. They roped them through the only rapid witch is encountered right before rattlesnake. You will be fine.


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## funrivers (May 14, 2008)

The Smith is not a great river for beggining canoist. While there is only one significant rapid, there are many obstacles--logs, rocks and cliffwalls to name a few. You should have good ferrying skills and a strong brace if you want to canoe the Smith. If you don't have the minimum skills, be sure to secure your load well, have plenty of dry clothes, and keep your matches dry!


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## mtriverrat (Jan 29, 2012)

Sounds like to me you need some experienced Smith people on your permit with you. May I offer my services as experienced, but unable to pull my own permit. Just kidding we have another trip planned for that time, but you pulled a super permit. The good news is you should have good water and usually the fishing is superb at this time. I have a raft and personally although I'm a great person in a canoe - I would never canoe it. It can be done - I had friends who went with me 3 years ago who did it. It is hard for even expert canoe people and the real reason is that it is so busy. You never get to rest, fish, drink beer and enjoy the scenery. We carried a bunch of stuff in our raft so if they did go in the drink they had dry clothes and tent. This being essential on the Smith because it can snow any day of the year in there. It is a beautiful trip and I'm extremely jealous, but take my advise and leave the canoe at home and bring a raft.


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## andanna (May 18, 2013)

Thanks for the replies. Hard decision for a first timer with no hitch on our SUV to make a raft transport possible...thus the canoe decision. Sad to think of not going but don't want to do it if it is not safe for beginners. Probably a lot depends on how fast it is flowing those days.


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## andanna (May 18, 2013)

mtriverrat,
I am taking your advice and back to a raft. If your plans change, let me know!


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## mtgreenheads (Jul 15, 2011)

Im interested to hear any reports from the year so far. Counting down the seconds until our June 19th launch, glad its cooled down and raining. Was a bit worried two weeks ago about a lack of water!


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## caspermike (Mar 9, 2007)

Last time I checked you can deflat the raft and roll it up and you can place them in cars..


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

caspermike said:


> Last time I checked you can deflat the raft and roll it up and you can place them in cars..


Really? We're trailering ours for the flight into Schafer.


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## mtgreenheads (Jul 15, 2011)

I'm getting a bit worried about our June 19 launch with these wimpy flows. Anyone have any insight? Hate to launch really low and consider skimping on groceries or beverages.


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## spider (Jun 20, 2011)

mtgreenheads said:


> I'm getting a bit worried about our June 19 launch with these wimpy flows. Anyone have any insight? Hate to launch really low and consider skimping on groceries or beverages.


Don't be worried untill sub 175 cfs.


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## mtgreenheads (Jul 15, 2011)

Appreciate it, 175 is what I had in my mind. But, folks who are renting a raft are shut down from the vendor @ 200 cfs. Maybe this cold, wet weather will build the snowpack a bit for us.


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## andanna (May 18, 2013)

caspermike said:


> Last time I checked you can deflat the raft and roll it up and you can place them in cars..


If you are renting a raft they don't recommend that you take it unless they inflate it. Would love insight I seem to be lacking.


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## spider (Jun 20, 2011)

Who are they renting from? Seems like the deposit is enough to take it where ever you want as long as you return it in the same shape. You can rent from rubber ducky in livingston and they let you roll em up. They are Montana river crap / star PVC boats.


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## andanna (May 18, 2013)

That is the place they said they don't recommend it. Took that for what it was and didn't ask why.


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## spider (Jun 20, 2011)

I recall being there to get some straps and listening to a conversation regarding rolling or renting a trailer a couple years ago. Maybe they want to make more money on there trailers. Or they are worried about there crappy boats falling apart. You could show up with a trailer rent it "for the Yellowstone" wink,wink,then roll it up to take it to the smith.

Marly is a shyster, selling over priced star boats to people with Montana river craft emblems on the side.


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## spider (Jun 20, 2011)

I hate to talk smack but a friend of mine bought a boat from him not to long ago and it started to show wear in the urithane (that needs no chafe strips because its so tuff),he told him to put duct tape on it. Nice customer service. Said boat has pin holes showing up all over it as well. Want to buy a Montana River Craft?


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## spider (Jun 20, 2011)

There's a consignment place out by 4 corners with some older boats with a big FOR RENT sign. I'm guessing they won't ask many questions.


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## okieboater (Oct 19, 2004)

For information and thanks to all who gave me information on Smith River. I just got home to the hot flatlands of OK after a week of time in the cool wet weather around Smith River Montana. We floated 21 June thru 25. It did rain quite often but rain only made the river better. We had from IK to one 14 ft Hyside oarboats and every thing did the float just fine. It was quite a drive from OK, CO, KS to get our group to the Smith, but it was worth it. I give the river scenery high marks, reminded me a ton of various sections of the Middle Fork Salmon River. All our camps were awesome. Only issues we had was at one of our most scenic camps, we had Canadian Geese poop all over but that did not take away the scenery we enjoyed. I took my old big Moss Outfitter Tarp and no matter what the weather forcast for the Smith, I recommend having a tarp sized for your group and waterproof tents for all. Thanks to Spider and every one else for the data. I plan to be back into the area next year permit or no. One thing that added to the trip was day 3 I think there is a river side outfitter store with ice and awesome Ice cream bars - so take some money on your trip!


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## Trout Hunter (Jun 4, 2013)

Did you fish? How was the fishing?


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## okieboater (Oct 19, 2004)

I did not fish since this was my first time in a Thrill Seeker IK that was loaded down with my gear.

We had several really good fly fishermen along and they fished but only caught a few.

We had serious rain the rig day and night before launch that brought the river up to a really nice level to float. But it was pretty murky. I won't say muddy but visibility in the water was measured in inches. So, my take is the trout could not see the dry flies we had unless it hit them just right.. The rain was coming in spots then it would be some time of beautiful blue with clouds sky then back to rain burst. For sure bring good warm clothes as well as sun type and be ready to change. Several nights and mornings were right down cold and extra layers felt good.

we ran into a few commercial fishing trips. Man, they are plush with big time camp setups and a fishing guide in each boat. We talked to a few of them and they said they caught a few but not what they usually caught.

That last 12 miles was reasonably clear weather and water but none of our folks fished that day. The day started out just cloudy and we hit the river early as we were in lower rattlesnake and one fishing group passed us but we soon caught up and passed them as they were fishing that last rocky section. Looked like the commercials had a private take out at the bridge at the 5 mile from the end bridge. That last 5 miles had a lot of logs in the water but looked to me to be a good to go fishing section but we saw no one fishing it.

Bottom line we had some rain each day or night which gave us excellent floating for the rafts but murky water for the fisherman. Like I said we got short rain sections followed by beautiful cloud spotted blue skies. Awesome scenery even in the rain showers. I will go back if we can score more permits. We hit the water levels just right according to the lady doing the take out permit info at the take out ramps. She allowed the week before the Smith was low and not many boaters.

Hard to believe the scenery is so good. A mini Middle Fork of the Salmon in many ways. One heck of a fine river to introduce someone to western river running as well. Montana State Parks and wildlife has done a wonderful job of management of this river as there are many private buildings to deal with. The private buildings tho did not take away from the feeling of being in the wilderness but did show up here and there. 

Sure glad we got lucky with the permit as one of the group said this river was a "major bucket list rated river to run" right up there with the classic runs like the Middle Fork just not as wild.


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## craven_morhead (Feb 20, 2007)

In case anyone else is looking, I took this data: Smith River Boat Camps
And added the campsite names. Public caltopo map is here; you can download gpx files from there: Smith Camps


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