# Ark winter H20 update



## Phil U. (Feb 7, 2009)

Thanks Logan. Do you know where the new launch sites and the campground are going to be?


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## lmyers (Jun 10, 2008)

The campground will be riverside and throughout the large flat area between the small hills near Scott's bridge and the current Number's parking area. The campground launch is supposed to be just around the corner of those hills where there used to be an old green gate and there is a grove of aspens. The upstream launch will be a boat ramp intended for commercials but open to the public. The final design will be determined by CPW engineers.


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## Andy H. (Oct 13, 2003)

Logan,

Thanks for the info on this. Could you please express a desire among the boating community for the launch to be a trailer-friendly ramp so folks can launch and get off the ramp quickly? 

-Andy


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## lmyers (Jun 10, 2008)

I can pass that along. I have a feeling the lower access, at the campground will be, but the upper access will likely depend on what the commercials want, or what the state parks wants commercial companies to use...


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## BeaterBoater (Sep 29, 2014)

Does this campground mean less free camping spaces now? What's wrong with how it was? Is it river right (accessed from 24?) Or where all the free camping is now? Is there really a demand for a campground?

To me, campground = more asshole non-boater tourists that leave trash everywhere with their 300,000 RV complete with separate 6' satellite and generator that runs all night.


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## lmyers (Jun 10, 2008)

It will be off 24 between #1 and the current Numbers launch. The campground will be located on land that was previously privately owned and off limits. It will be an ADDITION to the existing camping and should be a benefit to river users.


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## DesertRatonIce (Jan 1, 2015)

Its great to hear the about more camping. I know that driving from Railroad Bridge to Number 5 can be a real nightmare as cars and people are everywhere. I think this will really help to alleviate some of this. I plan to come up to bv as long as the release is still going on in February to do some winter boating. I have some new gear and it would be nice to try it out on a run I am very familiar with. If anybody is interested, let me know. 

I am so stoked to hear about Pink House down in Canon. That will be really nice not to have to go to town. 

Thanks for the beta logan

Victor


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## Phil U. (Feb 7, 2009)

That's beautiful right in there. That green gate was still there late this fall. There's an old jeep road down to a beautiful grove of big Pondo Pine. Trail down to a small beach, fire ring... When scouting for a low water putin that seemed the perfect access just above #1. There had been recent survey work done, pink flagging etc.. The "hill" that the road descends right there is a moraine and part of the cut from the GLOF of 10,000 years ago. Thanks for the info, Bro.


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## okieboater (Oct 19, 2004)

Logan,

appreciate the information.

more boater oriented camping is a good thing for us visiting boaters on a budget.

dave


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## Osseous (Jan 13, 2012)

Very cool!

Sent from my SM-N900V using Mountain Buzz mobile app


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## BeaterBoater (Sep 29, 2014)

Phil U. said:


> That's beautiful right in there. That green gate was still there late this fall. There's an old jeep road down to a beautiful grove of big Pondo Pine. Trail down to a small beach, fire ring... When scouting for a low water putin that seemed the perfect access just above #1. There had been recent survey work done, pink flagging etc.. The "hill" that the road descends right there is a moraine and part of the cut from the GLOF of 10,000 years ago. Thanks for the info, Bro.


Thanks for the detailed description, I know exactly where you're talking about now, I remember seeing the flagging as well. I'm all for the campground as long as we aren't turning free camping into paid camping which seems to happen quite a bit when areas become more popular. I try to pick up any trash I see around the free camping areas any time I'm down there in hopes of avoiding a pay system.


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## bdf48 (Mar 4, 2010)

The amount of free camping on BLM and USFS lands is practically unlimited. If you want a place to camp for free then it is not too hard to find, and additional paid campgrounds should not affect anyone looking for a free night.


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## jimr (Sep 8, 2007)

Um browns spawn in the fall not in April hope the people running the water knw this.


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## Id725 (Nov 22, 2003)

The more money the AHRA SPENDS, the more river users PAY. How much will the fees go up next year? To pay for all this new work?
How about simply aiming for MANAGEMENT and stewardship, rather than DEVELOPMENT?
-another deposit of my usual two cents.
-Hayduke out.


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## BeaterBoater (Sep 29, 2014)

Id725 said:


> The more money the AHRA SPENDS, the more river users PAY. How much will the fees go up next year? To pay for all this new work?
> How about simply aiming for MANAGEMENT and stewardship, rather than DEVELOPMENT?
> -another deposit of my usual two cents.
> -Hayduke out.


Exactly my point. Look to climbing areas for proof. 

BDF-
You're wrong here. Perfect example look at Red Rocks outside of Las Vegas. It's now a pay area with a time limit on how long you can park there (night fall), so if you're having a bad day in the canyon rest assured you will come back to a ticket as well. 

Of course there's free camping out there- is it on the river or near where I want to recreate though? If I have to drive to FairPlay to find camping I'll just stay home and make the drive. The government doesn't do a very good job at managing anything so let's try to keep them out of it if we can. 

Obviously the campground in question (is it private?) doesn't sound like it will effect anything.... yet. More people = more trash = more rules and supervision.


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## lmyers (Jun 10, 2008)

Sorry, I meant the fry emergence, not the spawning jimr...

Personally I am in favor of turning places like Elephant Rock into pay camping because every year it seems to get trashed worse, and cleaning up after idiois gets old, so your argument against developed camping falls on deaf ears with me...but Rob (AHRA) and John (BLM) are constantly looking for input from the public whether they need to "harden" more sites, or if the community is satisfied with current access...


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## DesertRatonIce (Jan 1, 2015)

I'm all in for having some pay campsites. It keeps people accountable. I have camped at railroad bridge and Hecla, both are pay sites and both are on the river. The cost of the camps are not outrageous at all. 


Woke up this morning at 10:13.


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## DoStep (Jun 26, 2012)

lmyers said:


> Sorry, I meant the fry emergence, not the spawning jimr...
> 
> Personally I am in favor of turning places like Elephant Rock into pay camping because every year it seems to get trashed worse, and cleaning up after idiois gets old, so your argument against developed camping falls on deaf ears with me...but Rob (AHRA) and John (BLM) are constantly looking for input from the public whether they need to "harden" more sites, or if the community is satisfied with current access...


Those 2 guys do their job, and the staff I know and encounter do too. Seriously, about 1/4 million people use AHRA State Park annually. The park is about 100 miles long and maybe 1/4 mile wide. I can't even imagine the literal shit show it would be without some level of management. 

I've lived in the Arkansas Valley for 20 yrs and been boating it for 30, and I have yet to have a bad experience with park staff or facilities. They "inspected" my overnighter trip this summer to check for groover and firepan, and I was glad to see them out looking. 

Count fishers, rafters/kayaks hikers , miners, climbers, cyclers, irrigators, motor sporters, gun-shooters, picture takers, don't forget the homeless, and others among the users. A free-for-all would certainly destroy it for most.

I was lucky to be of the era (mid-late 80's) to enjoy mtn biking in the Moab area. Slick Rock trail and the surrounding area was open and unmanaged. It was already common to dig up toilet paper while digging catholes, campers would pile in on others, trees disappeared in the name of fire, etc, etc, and it kinda started to suck in that regard after a while. Public input and circumstances led to the managed system we see there now along the river and salt flats and everywhere else. My opinion is the experience has improved there.

The huge influx of Colorado ski bums started to raid that area during the awesome weather of shoulder seasons back then, and continue to do so. While I'm not proud of being a part of loving it to death, I am happy that lessons were learned. I've seen many other examples, and the few issues I've had in managed areas are exclusively with other private types who simply won't acknowledge there are other people in the world who just might be doing the same thing they are. I believe a minority of users bring on regulation.

I get my money's worth for $75/year in AHRA alone, forget the rest of CSP. But I'm not getting any more than I was at $50/year not too long ago.


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## Randaddy (Jun 8, 2007)

+1 for pay camping! What do you pay for your ski pass? A State Parks pass and several days of camping will cost about $100 and you can boat your ass off for that. That $100 is pretty well spent in Colorado - especially the portion that goes to AHRA and campsite upkeep. For the huge volume of traffic, I think the Ark is pretty well managed - and as someone who sometimes drives a bus to the Numbers, I say hooray for the new developments!!


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