# Losing your edge; River Nerves



## Airborne2504 (Jul 11, 2008)

Losing your edge; River Nerves...

I'm sure that this has happened to others out there...I' just wanted to hear your stories about it happening to you and what you ended up doing afterwards/about it. Thanks!

SO, a brief back-story; The beginning of this season has been great, and it is only the start of my second season. I've been gradually hitting the Ark as it has been comming up. Hit Browns at 2200-2300-ish, and also at 2510 during paddlefest weekend, both were very clean runs with one roll in Zoom Flume when the flows were at 2500-ish. Was also able to hit Foxton when it was around 320-350-ish, and had a clean run through there as well. Been hitting Parkdale multiple times in the 2000-2200 cfs range in my kayak w/o incident, and also been hitting it in a raft at higher flows (greater than 2200) as flows were rising. 

Up until last weekend (June 20th) on Parkdale at ~2500 cfs, I had NOT had a swim in a very long time, and I have been very comfortable and confident being on the river and reading and running. THE SWIM; I hit the hole right above 3 Rocks on my approach to the right channel, flipped, rolled up sideways facing the middle channel, no big deal, not enough time to correct and make it right, so decided to head for the middle channel. Ended up not being able to make the move quick enough, hit the small hole just before the pillow wave comming off of the center rock, flipped, and then got pinned/surfed on the rock for a bit. I waited to feel myself get flushed downstream to roll, but did not wait long enough. I pulled my skirt at the very moment that it finally flushed me down the right channel. I swam through the hole on the right, which some people know it as "Captain Crunch," and then swam out of the river on the right. I was swimming for maybe 30 seconds to a minute. This was my first swim in a really long time...maybe since last season. During the "off-season" I had hit Westy in November at 4100/4200 cfs and had 1 roll in Funnel Falls, and had many low water runs down Parkdale 'til the river froze over.

Today/LOST MY EDGE/RIVER NERVES, decided to meet up with some friends to run 11 Mile Canyon. I've done this at 236 cfs during my first season of boating, and also hit it at low water at ~153 cfs a couple months ago w/o any problems. There were 3 very experienced boaters with us today, 2 of which I boat with on a regular basis. We set safety for those 2 as they cleaned the top class IV lead in to the V-, and then set safety for them as they both cleaned the to class V-. We the rest of us put on right below the V-. I am normally a little nervous on the river, in the good kind of way where it keeps you alert and respecting the river. No problems. *BUT, *today was different, I had not ever felt this way before. I was straight up scared to be on the river, not able to read the river, hitting pretty much all of the rocks on the flats, where others were easily avoiding them, and I could feel how terrified my face looked. before getting to the first drop, I had already been contemplating getting off of the river...got some words of comfort from a couple of people, and decided to run the first drop in hopes that this scared feeling would leave me. Did the drop with no problem, but still felt just as scared. As we came to the big calm flatwater/pool above the second drop, I paddled around my emotions in the eddy on the right, next to the road. 1 by 1 the group started to head down the drop. One of the boaters we were with deciding to be sweep, looked over and asked me if I was alright, I had told him at the put-in earlier that I was feeling wierd and scared, more-so than normal...I looked over to him, and told him that I was getting out. he nodded and headed down. I walked up to the dirt road...met up with them below the drop, and for some reason, decided to get back on the river. PRIDE??? EGO??? BOTH?? Well, that didn't last long, paddled some small boogie to another big calm pool above the next drop. I was done...My brother looked over at me in the eddy and asked me if I was okay; I looked over to him, and told him that I was out, and that I had lost my edge, I had lost my river nerves. I felt that I was a danger to myself if I decided to stay on the river, and at the same time, I was a danger for the whole group. The safe/smart decision was for me to get off of the river...  

I'm sure that staying in this sport long enough that maybe this would have eventually happened anyway, right? Better now to experience this feeling early maybe? 

Just wanted to hear any of your stories about you all experiencing this, and advice, or what you did to get over it. Take a step back maybe and go back to what I am familier with?? I'm usually at complete peace when I'm on the river...

This kinda reminds me of that part in "Band of Brothers" where Winters has to retreat for the very first time. He looks at Nix, and says something along the lines of, "So this is what retreating feels like...I don't like it." Nix replies with, "There's a first for everything..."

Thanks!


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## milo (Apr 21, 2004)

*.....scared or extremely concerned?....*

...first, you've got 2 years under your belt(don't beat yourself up, the river will take care of that)...2nd, it's kayaking...3rd, welcome to the party!!!!4th, look at it as being extremely concerned(a positive) VS scared(a negative)...5th, your head space and your skill set will always be jocky'n for first place, it's best when they are in a tie for first....get my drift....now, i'm gonna go back and hide under the bed....old-washed-up-never-has-been420cb...


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## Theophilus (Mar 11, 2008)

I love you like a Brother and you did the right thing today. Sorry I didn't pick up on the vibe.  I wish I had some words of wisdom for you. Tomorrows a new day. 

Scott


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## kayakfreakus (Mar 3, 2006)

This is so much a mental game its unreal IMHO. I think every paddler who sticks with the sport goes through this at various times. Personally, I know I have dealt with it several times and about the only thing you can do is get your head right. There is nothing smarter than trusting your intuition and get the F* out of the water if you feel you are a liability. If you do not see yourself making the drop do not run it, I have made this mistake so many times out of either pride, machismo, or whatever else is wrong with me and paid the price.

I have taken a couple approaches to fixing this.

1. Fall back a grade - go to a lower rated river run or flat water. Prove to yourself you know how to paddle a boat, roll, and recover form the "oh shit" instances you find yourself in. Hit the class 4 lines in a class 3 rapid. Make it a hard game of how you dissect the river, hit every eddy, and style every rapid.

2. Go back to the top of the drop that schooled you and hit your line. If it takes four times and swims then so be it (safety considered of course) but sometimes for me that's been the only way for me to progress and feel good about it.

If you are already hooked then the lure of being on the river will make you get through it......


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## Airborne2504 (Jul 11, 2008)

Theophilus said:


> I love you like a Brother and you did the right thing today. Sorry I didn't pick up on the vibe.  I wish I had some words of wisdom for you. Tomorrows a new day.
> 
> Scott


 
It's all good Scott. Good Lookin out. I'll be back on the river tomorrow in a raft, then back in the kayak when the next trip arises. Have fun tomorrow.


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## UserName (Sep 7, 2007)

Familiar with 3 Rocks, but not sure I read your situation. What strikes me is that the boat didn't flush right after you exited but because you exited. Again hard to read what happened from your description but I suspect your exiting action created the drag necessary for the boat to flush. For what ever reason your boat was hung up, upside down, in some state of stasis, in a bad place on the rapid. 

Stress, being gripped... Most adventure sports, a bit of stress actually heightens awareness and increases performance; to a point. At that point as stress increases performance tanks dramatically. And we make stupid mistakes, just don't perform effectively. It is correct to get out of the fire at that point if it is an option. Don't beat yourself up for that, regardless of the 20-30 year old male demographic taunts. That is all ego and dosen't serve anyone in an over stressed situation. It only builds the stress and compounds the issue, as does running the rapid in this condition. So, boating to your comfort level or just above is good. When your comfort level is way maxed out, bad. You will be performing at 50% when you really need 120%. Knock it down a few steps and get your legs under you again.

Find your current comfort level and shake it off there, gradually building your comfort level up again. Been there Bro.


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## Airborne2504 (Jul 11, 2008)

*Hooked!*



kayakfreakus said:


> This is so much a mental game its unreal IMHO. I think every paddler who sticks with the sport goes through this at various times. Personally, I know I have dealt with it several times and about the only thing you can do is get your head right. There is nothing smarter than trusting your intuition and get the F* out of the water if you feel you are a liability. If you do not see yourself making the drop do not run it, I have made this mistake so many times out of either pride, machismo, or whatever else is wrong with me and paid the price.
> 
> I have taken a couple approaches to fixing this.
> 
> ...


Yep, pretty much hooked, and the lure of the river is definately still callin, and she shall see me again. Thanks for the advice.


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## Sawtooth (Jul 13, 2008)

Guy, who are you? Cougar? You're hanging on too tight. Drop your balls back in that batwing sack of yours and get back in the saddle.


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## upthecoast1 (Dec 17, 2008)

G'day Air!

You've come an awful long way very quickly in your paddling. Well done!

Being able to tell people that you have suffered a set-back, using the scared word, shows us all that you are both very courageous and smart.

Hey, I'm a very ordinary paddler, a couple of seasons old too, and I'll never achieve what you have already. (Oh, and I get scared too!)

Try reading a book available on the net by Doug Ammons, _Whitewater Philosphy_, it might help you regroup.

All I say as an obvious non-expert is that we paddle to have FUN. So retrace your steps a little, enjoy a sunny class 2/3 river again and laugh out loud while you do it. You'll be back running the big stuff before you know it.

Cheers and best wishes from Mick in Australia.

PS Starting paddling at 48 may have dulled my competative edges a little but I wouldn't have missed this stunning sport for all the world! Enjoy! :grin:


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## JHimick (May 12, 2006)

I think you need to ask yourself why you do this. What is it that you get from kayaking class IV/V? I think there are situations where controlling your fear allows you to take your paddling to a higher level, but you need to know why you want to go there. On the other side there are situations where you need to understand the root of your fear and walk away if things just don't feel right. There are people who have done everything right and still died.

Also, if you haven't already, I think taking a swiftwater rescue course will give you more tools to assess the risks and decide a little more objectively on the reward... not to mention, you'll get a hell of a lot more comfortable swimming. Swimming is a good thing, it keeps you humble. Too bad there isn't more pool drop in CO.


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## Waterwindpowderrock (Oct 11, 2003)

I went from class III to V+ in my second season (one swim in that time, W.fork next to my house) I ran everything with complete confidence & rarely had an issue, I then switched boats 2 years & 16 cracks in my hull later(same type of boat, got a new hull) and never got the feel in the new boat, I pretty much never got my confidence back & haven't really creeked much since then. 

I'm sure I'll buy a new creeker & it'll go away, but in the meantime I just run everything in my playboat & I'm fine.

I understand how you feel though, I think a small step back & some time will probably cure the nerves, just build on positive experiencees for while.


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## Electric-Mayhem (Jan 19, 2004)

I totally know where you are coming from dude. I had a nasty, cold, high CFS swim a few years ago in Upstate New York at the Inner City Wave on the Black. Snowing and cold, and there is a damn about a 1/4 mile down from it that I almost swam over. Oh, and it was snowing.

I will say that I am still recovering from that 2 years later. Before that, I was totally comfortable on class IV and competant enough to do pretty well on class -V. Bailey was my favorite run and I could run pretty much all of it no problem.

In many ways it was sort of a wakeup call and made me realize I was mortal. I was never the hardcore knar creek boat dude, but I was getting comfortable with class V water. There is nothing like a good drubbing in a hole or a nasty long swim to make realize that its no all pancakes and daisies out there. I started boating when I was 12 and the Pirouette was both the "big time hardcore" playboat and the coolest move most people were making. In that time, I have "lost" my role at least twice, and its all due to confidence.

I'm always amazed at how much a difference a bit of confidence makes in boating. I'll echo the advice another post gave in this thread, and say that taking a step back and starting again with where you feel most comfortable. If you are scared on class IV and freak out, then take a step back to Class III stuff. Go spend a bunch of time at the playpark trying tricks that make you flip over and have to roll. Do it somewhere safe where a swim isn't gonna make things even worse again.

Lastly, for me, I have realized that I'll probably never do Class V stuff again. The last time I went on Bailey I swam twice, once in Dear Creek, and again on some boogie water where I really shouldn't have had an issue rolling, but freaked out. I'm just not in the frame of mind to think about that stuff anymore, and don't need it. I'm glad I experience those years of pushing myself on harder water, but it got to a point where I really started getting uncomfortable. I no longer need to do the hard stuff to have fun. Maybe I've "matured" in my late twenties or something, but I just don't need it. So I'd say have a look at what you really want to get out of boating, and whether doing the harder water is something you still want to do. If it is then awesome, you have a goal to work towards. If not, then thats awesome too, and you shouldn't feel like you are "pussying out". There are so many awesome rivers that don't push your limits too much, so go enjoy those.

Oh, and yeah, doing class V water in your second year of boating is pretty unusual. There is definitely one thing I've seen with boaters who do that, and there is sometimes a lack of respect for the water, since they have progressed so quickly. When a situation like you had happens, it all of a sudden is forced on you and your "survival" brain kicks in. I've seen it with a lot of begginers that learn their roll in the pool over the winter before they really start boating. Since they don't have those obligatory swims that most begginers do, its a big deal when they have their first big one in a real rapid. I think its also the major difference between your average boater, and the guys who go throw themselves off huge drops in remote locations. You get to certain place where to go further it takes more balls then skill. I think I have the skills to be able to do a huge drop, but I certainly don't have the confidence or desire to do so, which is the more important part I think. Lose the confidence and the skill goes away.

Ok, I'm rambling on a bit so I'll end it there. Go do some fun easy runs and get your play on, I bet it will do wonders for getting the confidence back.

JH


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## hojo (Jun 26, 2008)

Have you been practicing swimming though rapids on a regular basis? Even if you have a bomber roll and you're paddling any a given stretch of water accidents can still cause a swim: flip in a hole and a skirt implosion, a pin, etc. If you practice swimming on a regular basis you can be better prepared when the real deal happens. As far as losing your edge, take it back to formula and paddle the easy stuff until you feel comfortable again.


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## raymo (Aug 10, 2008)

When fear and anxiety rush throught your body (enjoy it) training, practice and experience ( T.P.E ) must kick-in. That is the difference between a novice and a professional. The only way to close that gap is through pushing yourself to the next higher level and mastering each one. Identifying your weak points at each level and making them stronger will help you focus and create talent needed to over come the natural feeling of fear (being scared). That first auto-rotation from 200 ft. always scares the shitttt out-of-you, but with T.P.E. it becomes more of a true sporting event than a threat. Hope this helps to put things in prospective. Plus you are an adrenaline!!! junky, face-it. You will always look for more, day or night. There is no help for us. P.S we don't always do the safe/smart thing.


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## gh (Oct 13, 2003)

Some good advise here though but for me, taking an SWR class where I did quite a bit of swimming of rapids and that was huge difference for me. You gotta decide what you are feeling anxious about, if its holes or swimming then go work on it. Several different solutions and you will find yours but my ideas are, go to a ww park and get in a hole in your river runner boat and learn more about holes. Also you can chuck your ass in and swim some rapids or features at a park. Let your friends know what you are doing and have em look out for you. Dont test your limits at this phase just learn more about what your issues are and do it in a fun manner.


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## Airborne2504 (Jul 11, 2008)

*Quick clarification*

Just wanted to clarify that I was not, nor am I, boating class V stuff. I'm definately not to that level yet. I was just setting safety while two of people from our group ran the top V-.


Thanks for all of the great advice, very helpful. That _Whitewater Phiosophy _sounds like a fun read/good read. I'll see if I can pick that up.

I have taken a Swiftwater class already, took it during a weekend in the beginning of May.

Why I boat? It is partly for the adreniline rush, not gonna lie there, I've always been attracted to rushes, hell, I jumped out of planes in the Army for 4 years, HAHA! But, mostly why I boat, is b/c of the "spiritual" aspect I think. I'm completely at peace on the river (well, mostly, LOL), out with good friends, experiencing beautiful scenery, and life's worries seem to disappear while on the river; no bills, no school work, no work issues, no girlfriend/wife/significant other issues, etc. I also enjoy the the mental, physical, and spiritual challenge of the sport too, I just think it got the best of me yesterday. I think I'd eventually like to get on the bigger, more challenging stuff. 

I'll be getting back in the saddle again soon, when we plan another trip(Hopefully in the next few days or so), or if there is a trip posted here that I think I can handle.


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## brenda (Aug 10, 2008)

I agree with practising swimming. Take a swiftwater rescue course...they make you swim everything. I submitted a post last year similar to yours call "I can't just give up". It took me a while to recover, but with all the support and advice from others, I am back to loving the water and am paddling better than ever.
P.S. I didn't start until I was 50!!!


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## mjpowhound (May 5, 2006)

I've been in a funk for little while too. This if my fourth season and I think it started two years ago when I got worked in a sticky hole for the first time. Until then, I went into every feature on the river I could find, and got lucky I guess 'cause I never really got stuck. I didn't swim that day, but I gained respect for holes and started avoiding them like the plague.

Then last year I took my first real swim on Lower Mish after getting stuck in some random hole. That freaked me out a little and I paddled like crap the rest of the day. Since then I'm definitely more nervous on the river and am not having as much fun. It's worst right before putting on or right before a big rapid. Once I'm in it the fun returns, but it's constantly going back and forth. 

Last weekend I took my second swim at the top of Triple Drop (below Pine Creek). I've run that rapid probably 10-15 times. I walked it the last time I was there because I wasn't feeling it, but ran it without incident every other time. I really wasn't feeling it this time either but I was determined to conquer my head issues. To compensate, I tried to avoid the ferry to the right by taking a line I though existed on the left. It only exists if you like boating into large sticky holes. It was a violent mofo and wouldn't let me go, so I swam. This swim was in a much worse spot than the Poudre swim and I was scared shitless when I first pulled. But I got out pretty quick and actually felt good about the swim. So I wholeheartedly agree that swim practice is a great idea. I'll also say that my fear was the direct cause of my swim, since I was trying to "sneak" it. I've tried to sneak a particular hole on Lawson for the same reason and got flipped and banged up both times. The river does not respond favorably to fear.

I can't give you any advice, but I can sure sympathize. FWIW, I'm going to get a bigger boat to get that crucial false sense of security on the bigger stuff. I'm also going to playboat a lot more to get reacquainted with holes and rolling. Its tough, because most III is not much fun anymore and most IV gives me the willys. The worst part is I'm paddling better this year than ever if you go by the number of times I roll.


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## DurangoSteve (Jun 2, 2006)

I'm not a kayaker (rafter and duckiest), and I don't aspire to Class V at this point in my life (geezer), but I certainly understand fear and sports.

Many years ago I had just returned from climbing my first big wall in Yosemite and was climbing at a solid 5.11 level. I was totally fit and absolutely in the groove mentally. My girlfriend (now my wife) wanted me to teach her to climb, and I was pretty pleased about that. We headed out to Eldorado Canyon to do a mellow one-pitch 5.6 for her first technical climb. As I was roping up to lead the climb, I heard someone scream "falling!" I looked toward the sound and saw a climber bouncing down a blank and poorly protected pitch. He went all the way to the ground. I untied and ran to help. The victim was contorted into a shape I had never seen a human body in. He had at least one compound fracture that I could identify and a nasty headwound. His belayer/partner was completely in shock and utterly useless, so I stabilized his friend as best I could and ran like hell for the ranger station. The ranger grabbed his gear and fortunately another EMT happened to be bouldering on the base of The Bastille. The three of us ran back to the victim, and in less than 10 minutes he was being treated by pros.

I was pretty shaken, but I scrambled back up to the base of the climb I was starting, didn't give my girlfriend any gory details, and proceeded up a really straight-forward crack system. I struggled with incredibly basic moves and was scared shitless. I kept picturing the twisted body I had just seen and couldn't stay focused on the rock. Long story short, I topped out, brought my girlfriend up, and went home for several beers.

I continued to climb fairly easy stuff the rest of that summer, but couldn't shake the image of the fallen climber. The next summer, my climbing partner and I took his younger brothers up to do several routes on Devil's Tower. Once again, I was gripped on climbs that I was more than capable of doing. I had lost my nerve. In my case, I never went back to serious technical climbing, but I continue to use my skills scrambling out in the canyons of Utah and on semi-technical mountains in Colorado. 

While I lost my nerve and never managed to get it back vis-a-vis difficult climbing, I recognized that it was for the best for me. You'll figure out what's best for you.


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## Gary E (Oct 27, 2003)

Air, it happens to everyone. Bad beating, long swim, bad pin or a death of a friend. A lot of good advice and although swimming drops won't help you figure out what's going on stepping back a grade will. Have fun!

This sport is so mental all the time and you have to be aware of that. If you think you can't catch an eddy you wont. If you think you're boating bad you will be. If you're worried about getting stomped you will. Reel the head games in and make them work for you.

I've been a multi day runs with no escape except paddling or walking for weeks. On day 3 of 5 I started the day with 5 rolls in two rapids that you can't be rolling in. I had 7 rolls for the whole trip. The head games started and I eddied out and signaled to my group I needed 10 minutes to give myself a pep talk. What you think while paddling is your reality and you wont be let off the hook. 

Props for leaving the river when you didn't feel safe. I've had to do this twice in the last 3 yrs. It's super hard to do and takes a lot of guts. You fight the feelings of not wanting to be that guy that can't get it done or whatever. That's an experienced call, so props. Every great boater you've ever heard of has walked off runs alone.

Also like the post above, I would set up camp and 3 rocks and fire that rapid up. Get in there and feel it, work with it and see what happens. It doesn't sound like you need to step back unless you can't get the above out of your head. If you do not believe, the water will reinforce your doubt. Believe, you can do it and you have before.

Good luck and be safe


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## Theophilus (Mar 11, 2008)

Public Service Announcement;

If you're gonna swim in the play park don't swim over the right side of Number 8 at Pueblo. I got monkey stomped there once and I know somebody else who did too. Look at it through polarized sunglasses at low water and you'll see the nasty scoured out hole.


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## canton (Oct 12, 2007)

*Thoughts on losing your nerve*

I don't post a ton. But this kind of struck me as I wrote an article for the Jackson Hole News about this very subject after a conversation we were having in Aaron Pruzan's shop (Rendezvous River Sports) about this exact subject back in probably 96 or so. Basically Dave Collins had made a point about paddling being different than most other sports like climbing etc because in those sports, if you aint got the goods, you aint getting on the rock... Paddling, any jackass can jump into any class 5 and the water will be glad to accept him/her and just as glad to trounce him/her once in. So too often we see boaters who are surviving runs at all levels who develop a false sense of security that just because they finished the run with all gear in tact and no injury, they "ran" it. And I guess I beg to differ. In many cases they survived it but they by no means ran it. And that "surviving vs running" is often a very personal thing that only you really know. So sure, you got sketched, maybe you have skills well beyond the move you missed/the stretch you were running etc. Maybe you were above your head that day and had some false sense of you ability based on the fact that you'd run it before or what ever. All i'm trying to say is that you've been in this great sport for 2 year and you want 20 more. Sounds like you're doing great and Geary's right cut your self some slack BUT also maybe there's a wake up call in here that says whoa, maybe your boating beyond your ability. And as any longtime paddler will tell you, Sure you might escape numerous runs at that level unscaved but eventually, well eventually it catches up with you. So please understand, I've never paddled with you, have no idea how good you are etc. I'm just throwing a thought out for you to think about . If there's nothing to what I'm saying, cool. Then power through and don't let the headtrip days we all have on the river get you down. Just recognize it for what it is. But if there's something else at work, make some adjustments. Because the most fun you're ever going to have won't likely be this season or the next but somewhere down the road when you're just out paddling to paddle and you realize WTF I just ran that shit and I didn't even crap my self.


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## Phil U. (Feb 7, 2009)

Good thread. D'Steve, that is a compelling story.

Most all of us are working personal edges in this sport. I see boating as a dance with the rio and dancing with style and grace is my goal. I'm always assessing where my game is at and carefully choosing what runs I get on at what levels and with what paddlers. Stepping back a class for a week or a season or the rest of yer career is all part of maintaining your balance and maybe even staying alive. IMO, recognizing the need to walk off the rio is a big step in maturity as a paddler. Kudos. There's no need to rush your progression, the rio will be there next week or next season. (Eleven Mile is so freakin beautiful its worth working at yer game just so you can get back in there!) Mostly, keep it fun and keep it safe. 
P.


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## DurangoSteve (Jun 2, 2006)

Just as soon as I clicked "submit," I realized that my climbing story wasn't remotely encouraging as far as you sticking with kayaking. OK, I'll try again. In 1980, my climbing partner and I spent several months bumming around the West, climbing in the Tetons and Sierra Nevada. We were fairly new to the sport but young and bulletproof and fit. Late in the summer, we decided we were ready for the NW Face of Half Dome. 

We hiked in from the Valley and I took off up the first pitch. It was early morning, and cold and dark in the shadow of that massive monolith. Rocks were whistling past, knocked loose by climbing parties above us. I got a bad feeling as I climbed and was second-guessing the wisdom of committing to this multi-day climb. Anyhow, I got to the first belay ledge and set up the anchor. Meanwhile, on the ground my buddy was having his own doubts. Neither of us wanted to say anything or appear "weak," but we both wanted to retreat. Eventually I started to stammer out my doubts and my buddy interrupted and said, "Thank God, let's get the fuck out of here!" I happily rapped off, we packed our packs, and hiked back to the Valley floor to do many other challenging day climbs over the coming weeks. 

The point? If you're not "feeling it," by all means don't do it. Kayaking, like climbing, is a head game. 

Postscript: It turns out that our instincts were absolutely right. We were totally off-route and things would have gotten very complicated very quickly. We went back four years later and styled that climb when we were truly "ready."

Pushing yourself is good. Rushing ahead before you've had time to really learn the subtleties of water is not so good. There's no hurry. Take a break or step back a class, as many have advised. Be patient, be safe and enjoy.


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## MikeG (Mar 6, 2004)

*chiming in*

Since the original post asked about losing the edge I'll just add that I have lost it and gained it back countless times in my 'career' and now I'm to the point where it is really a daily estimation of where I am. I find myself more and more reluctant to run class V because I can have such a great time on class IV without the heebie jeebies. I think that's just a function of seeing and experiencing just how many things can go wrong. I used to confidently, and foolishly, huck myself down just about anything (Super Collider on the Poudre Narows in a Vertigo comes to mind) and I could not have survived without some skill and a lot of confidence but it becomes more and more apparent that luck is a pretty big piece of this too. Unfortunately, it takes only a second or two of bad luck or a mess up to catasrtophically change (end?) your life and those of the people around you. I always wrestle with the sentiment "at least he died doing something he loved." That may be very real for some people and I deifnitley drank that Kool-Aid years ago but it has become clear to me that I don't buy it anymore. Kayaking has influenced my life perhaps more than any other force but I would rather walk away from it tomorrow than die doing it. There's too much else out there to experience. Of course that is a personal decision and I fully respect those who come out on the other side of the cost-benefit analysis. 
The other piece that I wanted to throw in, Air, is that water levels make a big difference. Running Parkdale with a lot of water in it is nothing like a low water run. Its easy to lose sight of that but we often get in trouble beacuase we tend to see 'class III' runs at lower water levels and then when they spike up we have similar expectations. Even if the consequences aren't dire, big water can feel pretty overwhelming, whether that is making the moves you want to make or getting trounced in a monster hole. Stick with your goals of clearing your head and spritual communion and find the joy of making difficult moves in rapids with lower consequences. You'll know when you're ready to step back up.


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## Rhynocerous (May 19, 2009)

Just wanted to say MIkeG- your quote is the shizzle.


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## craven_morhead (Feb 20, 2007)

I was part of a club in the midwest that had big problems with people getting in over their heads way too fast. It was dangerous; I was part of the sloppiest, scariest rescue I've seen with that group. Anyway, it's definitely worth paying attention to whether you're having any fun on the river. There's a big difference between being a little gripped because you're near the edge of your comfort level (as long as your comfort stops short of your ability level), and not having any fun at all on the river. If you're not in the right headspace to do something on a particular day, don't do it.


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## Sleepy (May 11, 2009)

Been there, I believe the advice above is enough. I get scared crossing the street nevetheless paddling v, love it though. The fear keeps me in check.
In friendliness,
Sleepy


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## lmyers (Jun 10, 2008)

I can understand your issues Airborne, I jumped out on the Arkansas my first two seasons without so much as a feable brace or any semblance of a roll. Consequently I have swam damn near every rapid on the river, at most levels. Similarly, I had a shittly swim through 3 rocks a couple years ago that really hurt my confidence...getting a bomber roll and practicing has taken care of that, but I can relate to how you felt about 11 mile. I just ran it yesterday for the first time and I, personally, think it is tougher than a low water #'s or Gorge trip, I came out with a very bruised shoulder, a split chin, and a very large dent in my helmet...anyway, if your interested we have a group organized for a trip to run the upper Rio Grande and Mesa Canyon on the upper San Juan next weekend, good stuff for having fun and building your confidence back up...
keep at it


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## glcasson21 (Apr 16, 2009)

*well done*

Well, there is a ton of good advice that you have received on here and I have very little to add, but I'll share my experience too. 

I progressed quickly, like yourself. I unfortunately jumped the gun a little too quick and took some beatings. They all turned out ok at first but I eventually recieved bad beatings. 

About a year after I began kayaking, I lost my best friend of over ten years to the sport. He was an amazing kayaker and friend. Even as good as he was, he swam out to a pinned boat to help out and was pulled into an underwater, terminal seive that no one knew about. He was on our backyard run...probably ran it a thousand times. This is by far the toughest thing I have ever faced.

so, here I am four years later. I didn't even paddle for almost a year and contemplated selling my stuff and wondering if this sport is really worth it. I decided it was and gradually stepped myself back up to class V. Things have been going much better this second time around. I've even had a few clean lines thru the V's! 

All in all, I just wanted to tell you that getting out was an excellent desicion. If you were so freaked that more than one person saw it on your face, it's time to leave. The one thing you can't do in this sport is lack confidence. You have to believe in yourself. 

However, if you wanna step back go for it. But it sounds like your solid and just made one small mistake. it happens to everyone. These mental fights don't go away. That is the best part of the sport. It's just as mental as it is physical. 

I was feeling really good in my boat, tons of confidence and had never swam up to this day. Missed one small paddle stroke and got fed into a giant hole. It was my first swim and a horrible one. My late friend was there that day and quickly instilled confidence back into me. As I stood on the bank contemplating whether to run the next drop with fear in my eyes he says "this drop will be here, you can walk it now, but you can run it now and have redemption for the entire day. I think you should fire it up." 

good luck. sounds like your doing fine and just facing the normal battles.


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## 1srh (Jun 7, 2008)

Alex,

how did you do on your raft trip this weekend? Feeling any better?


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## islandertek (Apr 4, 2008)

*TWO WORDS FOR YOU!!*

SACK UP!!!


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## islandertek (Apr 4, 2008)

*The HOOLIGAN will ride again!!*

Just messin with ya Alex!! I feel ya my brotha!! I know your HOOLIGAN ass will ride again!! YEAH!! It's in our islander blood to be in the water. It happens to the best and worst of us!! Ha Haaa!! I had my little excursion (swim) in LCC at over 700cfs a few weeks ago. I thought I was done boating for awhile. I had to go back to union chutes to re-gain confidence. Hang in there, it'll get better!! For sure!! 

EPIC REPORT:
Yesterday Allan got sucked under the riverwide-house size boulder in 11 mile (I call it the key hole) and flushed completely through an under water tunnel or undercut........Words were unspeakable at that point. I just saw the paddle come out the other side, and Allan come up from under the rock. That was pretty scary for him and me!! It was only the two of us which made things a little more sketchy. "A" game definitely had to be present!! All in all......SICK!!!!

Can't wait to paddle with you again bro!! 

Cheers!!

-Nick


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## FreeKickHero (Jun 3, 2008)

Oh man Nick, how is Allan holding up? Alex and Cecil pointed out that a lot of 11 Mile is undercut. That must have been nerve wracking for the both of you.


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## IkayakNboard (May 12, 2005)

islandertek said:


> SACK UP!!!



LMAO! 

AB...you'll get it back. I had the same thing happen a few times throughout my kayaking career, especially in the beginning.

I will also add, it seems to me like if things are going to go wrong (me flipping, hitting rocks I shouldn't be hitting, or even swimming, etc), I had an "off" feeling either the whole day (including the drive to the river), or just before putting on, and a thought of "maybe I should sit this one out" crossed my mind before heading down the river (or a certain rapid). As others have said, trust your gut. When you get nervous, you get tense. When you get tense in this sport, you paddle like shit.


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## islandertek (Apr 4, 2008)

Allan is doing great now!! He did awesome on the run except for that little spot! Oh well, next time!! It was an amazing run as always!! Definitely a scary situation though!!

Let's hook up sometime soon!!

Cheers!

-Nick


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## Jay H (May 20, 2005)

this subject seems to come up every so often--everyone's replies have been pretty spot-on, so I won't belabor the point other than to reference this thread: http://www.mountainbuzz.com/forums/f26/tips-anyone-19970.html#post103644

from a while back. I didn't see it reposted, apolgize if it already was. There's a lot of similar discussion there, and in it I linked to some AW articles about fear.

As a semi-frequent swimmer, I have dealt with the fear thing also, and all the advice above applies--I seem to have a short bout at the beginning of the season every year. I did just swim this weekend incidentally in triple drop--craziest water I have ever swam in--no whistles, turkey legs, or schlitz though!

I wasn't overly scared at the put-in, in fact, other than the normal dry mouth, nerpoo feelings, I felt pretty confident. I flipped almost immediately though, and couldn't get my roll and swam, even though I've run triple drop a bunch of times, not quite at 3000, but over 2800, with zero issues--then ran #1 fine, but then flipped and swam again in #1 1/2 and called it a day...maybe over-confident, maybe having paddled the previous sat., mon., tue., wed., and thu., and not gettin' my butt to sleep before midnite wed., thu. and fri. had something to do with it, maybe it was those bootie beers I still owe for the other swims this season--I don't know what the problem was... BIG, BIG thanks to Dan and Steve though for rescuing my boat 2x!!

--I seem to have a wierd inconsistency thing, where I'll have a great run one day and crap the next--I can't quite seem to figure it out...

the wierd thing about swimming for me though, is I'm never scared at all when I do swim--even though triple drop was absolutely humongous on sat., and I was under water for some extended periods in triple drop with only nanoseconds in between to get a breath, I was calm and just knew that I had to get to business and stay away from the holes and get my self to shore as fast as possible--tried to hold my paddle--no chance on the boat--but lost that too...Big thanks also to Donna and her crew for recovering and returning my paddle!

--after my adventure swimming triple drop, I even had to swim back across the river, just below the regular numbers put-in where it's somewhat mellow, to get back to my boat, and I even enjoyed it! --but I do have to say that even though I didn't feel scared in the water, that was a scary swim thinking back on it, and I know I have to get back on it as soon as I rest up and build up a lttle confidence...

Everybody's advice here certainly applies, and the only thing I would add though is that it will pass--I can assure you!


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## lmyers (Jun 10, 2008)

islandertek said:


> EPIC REPORT:
> Yesterday Allan got sucked under the riverwide-house size boulder in 11 mile (I call it the key hole) and flushed completely through an under water tunnel or undercut........Words were unspeakable at that point. I just saw the paddle come out the other side, and Allan come up from under the rock. That was pretty scary for him and me!! It was only the two of us which made things a little more sketchy. "A" game definitely had to be present!! All in all......SICK!!!!


Saturday I ran 11 mile for the first time and took a full throttle shot to the helmet right above that rock (after hitting that curling hole above straight on instead of banking off the rock), all I could think about as I was upside down was that I didn't want to swim there...glad to hear he's ok.
Here is a good picture of that rapid:


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## Airborne2504 (Jul 11, 2008)

lmyers said:


> Saturday I ran 11 mile for the first time and took a full throttle shot to the helmet right above that rock (after hitting that curling hole above straight on instead of banking off the rock), all I could think about as I was upside down was that I didn't want to swim there...glad to hear he's ok.
> Here is a good picture of that rapid:


 
Yep, that looks like the spot to me! Great Photo of it.


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## Theophilus (Mar 11, 2008)

lmyers said:


> Saturday I ran 11 mile for the first time and took a full throttle shot to the helmet right above that rock (after hitting that curling hole above straight on instead of banking off the rock), all I could think about as I was upside down was that I didn't want to swim there...glad to hear he's ok.
> Here is a good picture of that rapid:


Not a great place to swim since just out of frame below is a river wide strainer with a chain sawed notch that some boof. It's a beautiful place to boat. What did you think of the section below the last bridge down to Messenger Gulch? It's a blast.


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## lmyers (Jun 10, 2008)

Theophilus said:


> It's a beautiful place to boat. What did you think of the section below the last bridge down to Messenger Gulch? It's a blast.


Loved it, I would have to call it one of my two favorites (along with Taylor Canyon). Here is a couple more pics of a couple of spots I liked, too bad I don't know what to call them...


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## Theophilus (Mar 11, 2008)

Great pictures. If you ever want to hit it again give me a shout. I live about 15-20 minutes away and if you’re going to Taylor Canyon I'd like to join you. I've wanted to have a local show me down that one for a while. During Paddlefest we went over and did the Taylor Park Run down to the reservoir when it was running med-high. We didn't know about the cross river 3 strand barbed wire in a couple of places. I caught an eddy just feet before being all amongst one of those fences. Good continuous fun though.
Scott


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## islandertek (Apr 4, 2008)

*That's it!*

Dude, that is exactly the spot! Yeah he's ok!! Awesome run! My favorite is the last section above the take out before the bottom class V. The little cascade into the slide drop! Then the s turn rapids at the tunnel are also alot of fun. 

Cheers!

-Nick



lmyers said:


> Saturday I ran 11 mile for the first time and took a full throttle shot to the helmet right above that rock (after hitting that curling hole above straight on instead of banking off the rock), all I could think about as I was upside down was that I didn't want to swim there...glad to hear he's ok.
> Here is a good picture of that rapid:


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## CoArkYaker (Sep 18, 2010)

Airborne2504 said:


> *BUT, *today was different, I had not ever felt this way before. I was straight up scared to be on the river, not able to read the river, hitting pretty much all of the rocks on the flats, where others were easily avoiding them, and I could feel how terrified my face looked. before getting to the first drop, I had already been contemplating getting off of the river...


Just moved here and decided to get back into boating. I've been off the river for some time now. Sounds like 11 mile is not the place I want to start over at.


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## caspermike (Mar 9, 2007)

Meyers the name for those two drops. Aka the shit between rapids.


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