# Twickenham to Clarno



## Bwick84 (Apr 4, 2017)

We are doing this short John Day section this weekend with some young ones and was wondering if anyone had any links to gps coordinates for campsites/rapids/etc. I know it's going to be packed so we probably won't get any good sites, but any advice would be appreciated. I've heard there's not much camping for the last 10 miles.

Also, as a side question, are there any take out areas just after Clarno? Would love to drop the kids off and run the Clarno rapid if possible. We'll have a Super Puma with us so we could carry it for a little bit if needed. Is it even worth doing at this flow (4,820 as of today)?


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## mtrafter (Aug 13, 2007)

last chance to hike out is at clarno rapid,would be a 5 mile hike though, got off the clarno to cottonwood section a couple days ago only saw 2 other groups all week and the water level was awesome 

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## 90Duck (Nov 19, 2012)

*GPS waypoints*

I have some home-brewed GPS coordinates for Garmin - river miles, a few , camps, "rapids", and access points. Shoot me a pm with your email if you want them and I can send you a gpx file.


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## Bwick84 (Apr 4, 2017)

mtrafter said:


> last chance to hike out is at clarno rapid,would be a 5 mile hike though, got off the clarno to cottonwood section a couple days ago only saw 2 other groups all week and the water level was awesome
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Mountain Buzz mobile app


Ok, thanks. Probably not worth it with all the kids.


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## Bwick84 (Apr 4, 2017)

90Duck said:


> I have some home-brewed GPS coordinates for Garmin - river miles, a few , camps, "rapids", and access points. Shoot me a pm with your email if you want them and I can send you a gpx file.


Thank you! PM sent. I know there's not much for "rapids" which was the plan since we're bringing our 2 year old.


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## shappattack (Jul 17, 2008)

Get yo self the John Day River floaters waterproof map book. They usually have them at the Service Creek Store if it is too late to call the BLM and have them mail you one. That will show all.

However, I would highly highly highly (did I say highly) advise to avoid this weekend (memorial day). It will be an extreme zoo with good weather and flows.


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## Bwick84 (Apr 4, 2017)

shappattack said:


> Get yo self the John Day River floaters waterproof map book. They usually have them at the Service Creek Store if it is too late to call the BLM and have them mail you one. That will show all.
> 
> However, I would highly highly highly (did I say highly) advise to avoid this weekend (memorial day). It will be an extreme zoo with good weather and flows.


We weren't planning on going through Service Creek since we'll be coming from Boise. Would anyone else have it or is there a pdf copy anywhere?

Any good spots to grab Oregon invasive species tags once we cross the border in Ontario?

I know it's going to be really busy. It's fun to visit the zoo once in a while, right?


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## Wadeinthewater (Mar 22, 2009)

Bwick84 said:


> Any good spots to grab Oregon invasive species tags once we cross the border in Ontario?


Bi-Mart or any place that sells fishing and hunting licenses.


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## Bwick84 (Apr 4, 2017)

Wadeinthewater said:


> Bi-Mart or any place that sells fishing and hunting licenses.


Perfect, there's a Bi-Mart on the way in Ontario. Thanks!


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## slickhorn (Dec 15, 2005)

get yer camp by noon. 

I did a memorial day float years ago on this section, and I passed the last open campsite I saw at 1pm. At dusk we camped in the long grass 6" above the water at the only flat place I could stop a boat that we had seen in hours, miles and miles farther than we wanted to go. 

Every camp was booked, every potential camp was booked, it was the worst camp hunt I've ever had. 

Better yet, launch Sat, go short, lay over sun, takeout Tues. Find the void.


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## donutboy (Sep 13, 2015)

*Agree - with above - Camp by Noon*

We went last year over memorial day along with the entire state of oregon and finding a camp was stressful. So many people. 

Last year it was 1200cfs this year is looking like 5000. 

Forecasts are for High temps this weekend. Stay hydrated out there.


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## mtrafter (Aug 13, 2007)

I was on last year on memorial day and it was a nightmare for camps in any section, I would get on river as soon as possible and find a camp and stay there you can easily float out in one day with the short section you are doing

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## Bwick84 (Apr 4, 2017)

Thanks for all the tips everyone. Hopefully we'll be able to find something. With the high flows, how long do you think it will take to float a mile (assuming no constant oaring)? Just trying to plan in case we decide to float out in one day like mtrafter suggested.


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## 90Duck (Nov 19, 2012)

I try to do my JD trips by Easter weekend. The scenery is great and the campsites are really good, but once the weather warms up it definitely gets a bit overrun.

The lack of major rapids makes it very accessible for all skill levels and suitable for younger children to get a taste of river life. The BLM tried and then gave up on limiting entry over the busy summer months a few years back. I'm not a big fan of permit lotteries, but they do serve a valid purpose. High use on the JD on summer weekends will make it inevitable sooner rather than later, and for those who are fortunate enough to get a permit it will be a better experience.

Bwick84, at the current 5,000 cfs you should be able to make 4 mph pretty easily without much more rowing than course corrections.


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## Bwick84 (Apr 4, 2017)

90Duck said:


> Bwick84, at the current 5,000 cfs you should be able to make 4 mph pretty easily without much more rowing than course corrections.


Thank you for that as well as the GPS coordinates and other great tips. I really appreciate it.


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## 90Duck (Nov 19, 2012)

Bwick84 said:


> Thank you for that as well as the GPS coordinates and other great tips. I really appreciate it.


Sure thing, hope you have a great trip!


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## shappattack (Jul 17, 2008)

Bwick84 said:


> It's fun to visit the zoo once in a while, right?



1000% not fun


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## rivers2run (Jun 7, 2012)

There is a put in below Clarno it is used in low water. That was a private ranch but a conservation organization has purchased the ranch you might contact the FS for specifics. There was a charge for using it. Also Clarno is extremely easy to walk around. Your wife could easily walk the kids around it. I had some canoeists and they elected to portage it was very easy.


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## rivers2run (Jun 7, 2012)

Here is the article on the purchase and the access from the ranch. Western Rivers Conservancy buys another John Day River ranch; future public access possible | OregonLive.com


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## shappattack (Jul 17, 2008)

rivers2run said:


> There is a put in below Clarno it is used in low water. That was a private ranch but a conservation organization has purchased the ranch you might contact the FS for specifics. There was a charge for using it. Also Clarno is extremely easy to walk around. Your wife could easily walk the kids around it. I had some canoeists and they elected to portage it was very easy.



Not feasible to use 30 mile ranch put-in for ditching the fam just to run clarno, 30 mile ranch is 30 miles from Clarno put in (i.e. over 20 miles downstream of Clarno rapid), and a long drive around to get back too.


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## mtrafter (Aug 13, 2007)

just looked at the blm calender it shows almost 40 groups putting in on Thursday and Friday

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## Bwick84 (Apr 4, 2017)

Are there just not that many spots to camp? From the videos I've seen it seems like there are a lot of flat areas right along the river. Are many of them too rocky? I understand there are some spots that are the best and I understand it will be hard getting those. We just need a somewhat flat spot that's not all rocks.


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## shappattack (Jul 17, 2008)

Bwick84 said:


> Are there just not that many spots to camp? From the videos I've seen it seems like there are a lot of flat areas right along the river. Are many of them too rocky? I understand there are some spots that are the best and I understand it will be hard getting those. We just need a somewhat flat spot that's not all rocks.


The BLM map book shows all the camps and has a list of coordinates for each. There is no electronic PDF I am aware of on the web. I just counted 44 campsites on the map from Twickenham to Clarno. There are very few camps with decent flat spots not shown on the map. In fact, many of the camp sites actually shown on the map actually suck, and are as you describe, just a relatively unappealing flat spot that one could camp at. The whole reason the BLM tried to implement a limited entry system was for this very fact, for peak weekends, there are more parties than possible camps (possible camps in the sense that there is a flat spot to pitch a tent). Of course there are inumerable scrappy, slopy rocky spots that one could sleep over night, but would I drive 6 hours with the wife and kids, and wade through a zoo just to camp at some scrappy slopy rocky spot, well if it was the Upper Chetco and I was sleeping in my IK, then yes, on the John Day, no way. 

If I was you, I would definitely get a hold of the Service Creek shop, make sure they have some of the map books, and take a little extra time to go through that way to pick one up. Otherwise you will be wondering where the hell is the next camp after you pass camp after camp after camp that is occupied. This is no joke, it is simply how it will play out.

I get that it is frustrating, that you have a plan that you didn't research appropriately far enough a head of time, and that the answers are not to your liking, but it is what it is. Camps of any quality will be tough to come by period.


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## Bwick84 (Apr 4, 2017)

shappattack said:


> The BLM map book shows all the camps and has a list of coordinates for each. There is no electronic PDF I am aware of on the web. I just counted 44 campsites on the map from Twickenham to Clarno. There are very few camps with decent flat spots not shown on the map. In fact, many of the camp sites actually shown on the map actually suck, and are as you describe, just a relatively unappealing flat spot that one could camp at. The whole reason the BLM tried to implement a limited entry system was for this very fact, for peak weekends, there are more parties than possible camps (possible camps in the sense that there is a flat spot to pitch a tent). Of course there are inumerable scrappy, slopy rocky spots that one could sleep over night, but would I drive 6 hours with the wife and kids, and wade through a zoo just to camp at some scrappy slopy rocky spot, well if it was the Upper Chetco and I was sleeping in my IK, then yes, on the John Day, no way.
> 
> If I was you, I would definitely get a hold of the Service Creek shop, make sure they have some of the map books, and take a little extra time to go through that way to pick one up. Otherwise you will be wondering where the hell is the next camp after you pass camp after camp after camp that is occupied. This is no joke, it is simply how it will play out.
> 
> I get that it is frustrating, that you have a plan that you didn't research appropriately far enough a head of time, and that the answers are not to your liking, but it is what it is. Camps of any quality will be tough to come by period.


Ok, thanks for the info on the campsites. I did do plenty of research including asking questions here back in April. I was told here that there are plenty of spots to camp and I wouldn't have an issue finding a place to sleep even on Memorial Day weekend. 

I just wasn't aware that there was a campsite map available. However, there is a BLM office here in Boise so we are going to swing by that today to see if they have a map.


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## shappattack (Jul 17, 2008)

Bwick84 said:


> Ok, thanks for the info on the campsites. I did do plenty of research including asking questions here back in April. I was told here that there are plenty of spots to camp and I wouldn't have an issue finding a place to sleep even on Memorial Day weekend.
> 
> I just wasn't aware that there was a campsite map available. However, there is a BLM office here in Boise so we are going to swing by that today to see if they have a map.


You were told that by 1 person on a thread you piggy backed onto, which was extremely poor advice. I indicated in that thread in response to you:

"You, your wife, 3 kids and parents - and about a zillion other people. I would avoid the lower John Day on memorial weekend, I would avoid the Grand Ronde on memorial day weekend as well. Yes you will have issues finding camps as the masses will be out if the weather is at all decent. The last 2 John Day management plan EIS's reported the highest use to be on memorial day weekend I believe."

You were also focused on Clarno to Cottonwood in that thread, not Twickenham to Clarno. Twickenham to Clarno will have even more concentrated use than Clarno to Cottonwood, due to its shorter distance that can be completed in the 3 day weekend. 

I would be extremely surprised if you find that map at the Boise BLM office. The John Day is managed out of Prineville, Oregon BLM. Completely different regions.

The notion that plenty of research was done is so absurd as to be unbelievable as follows: 

The first place that comes up when googling "john day river rafting"
is:
https://www.americanwhitewater.org/content/River/detail/id/3034

It says right on that page (which is only 4 paragraphs long) The BLM also publishes the John Day Recreation Guide which has detailed river maps. They also include a link to the BLM website on that page. That is the same link that you had to go to do acquire/pay for your permit for your trip.https://www.blm.gov/or/permit/

On the front of the BLM webpage that you had to visit to buy your permit, there is a header that says "know before you go" and a bullet link that says "order maps and guidebooks"

You click that link and boom:

The following maps and guidebook may be ordered by phone from the BLM Prineville District Office at 541-416-6700. Visa/MC and debit cards accepted. (BLM, 3050 NE Third St, Prineville OR 97754)

Mainstem
2005 John Day River Recreation Guide ($6)
Kimberly to Tumwater Falls Spiral-bound waterproof floater's guide. Highly recommended.

That was some thorough research.


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## Bwick84 (Apr 4, 2017)

Did I do something to upset you? Not really sure why you are trying to bash me because I'm asking questions on a public forum. Yes, I saw the guide when I was looking into this. What I didn't know is that it included campsites in the guide. Should I have bought it anyway? Probably, but I'm known to make mistakes here and there.


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## jbomb (Apr 10, 2015)

shappattack said:


> You were told that by 1 person on a thread you piggy backed onto, which was extremely poor advice.


My "extremely poor advice" was based on actual experience of having run Clarno to Cottonwood last Memorial Day. Camping was not an issue at all. Permit numbers are looking similar this year for that section. A few years ago we did Twickenham to Clarno in the rain on Memorial Day and had lots of trouble finding camps.


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## shappattack (Jul 17, 2008)

Bwick84 said:


> Did I do something to upset you? Not really sure why you are trying to bash me because I'm asking questions on a public forum. Yes, I saw the guide when I was looking into this. What I didn't know is that it included campsites in the guide. Should I have bought it anyway? Probably, but I'm known to make mistakes here and there.


I think you mistake a blunt no bullshit factual information presentation for bashing.


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## shappattack (Jul 17, 2008)

jbomb said:


> My "extremely poor advice" was based on actual experience of having run Clarno to Cottonwood last Memorial Day. Camping was not an issue at all. Permit numbers are looking similar this year for that section. A few years ago we did Twickenham to Clarno in the rain on Memorial Day and had lots of trouble finding camps.


One year of observation on Clarno to Cottonwood, a trend does not maketh. I happen to have the daily use data info for the last 2 decades, and that is not the norm on any section of mainstem JD on memorial day. 

Regardless, your observation about Twickenham to Clarno remains consistent with the actual trend.


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## Bwick84 (Apr 4, 2017)

Sorry to drag you into this jbomb. You clearly said the lower John Day, but I thought you meant the whole section from Service Creek all the way to Cottonwood. I understand what you were saying now and still appreciate you sharing your experience, despite not having 20 years of statistics.

Either way, we're still going to go. We might just do Service Creek to Twickenham, or maybe we'll just find a really rocky section and build a house for us to stay in while we're there, or maybe we'll camp at the launch and just dream about floating the river, who knows. We usually try to have fun in most circumstances.


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## jbomb (Apr 10, 2015)

shappattack said:


> One year of observation on Clarno to Cottonwood, a trend does not maketh. I happen to have the daily use data info for the last 2 decades, and that is not the norm on any section of mainstem JD on memorial day.
> 
> Regardless, your observation about Twickenham to Clarno remains consistent with the actual trend.


So does your daily use data show last Memorial Day 2016 had lower than normal usage on Clarno down? Please elucidate. I suspect it was in fact it had fairly normal use, as it felt like our 2013 and 2014 Memorial Day trips.


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## elkhaven (Sep 11, 2013)

We ran the Service cr to Clarno section a few years ago...in ealy June (definitely not memorial day) and had a hell of a time finding spots. We got one fair one, but the other 2 sucked - rock piles with thin spots in the willows as accesses. Based on that one data point, I wouldn't dream of being anywhere near that stretch on memorial day, but that's just me. I hope you enjoy your float, but I would take the advice to get your camp EARLY. Get up, get on the water and relax once there. That's not my favorite style (I kind of like relaxing in the morning) but I would certainly be an early bird in this situation.


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## Bwick84 (Apr 4, 2017)

We survived Memorial Day weekend on the John Day. Just figured I would give a little update.

It was surprisingly quiet. We launched Friday at Twickenham. Everyone recommended we were camped by noon so naturally we launched around 3pm. We did have to drive from Boise. There was one other group launching behind us, otherwise we didn't see anyone else the first day. We only went 5 miles the first day and found a great camp just above the Homestead rapids. This allowed us to run the rapids a couple times on the kayaks with the kids and then just hiked back up.

Day 1 camp



















Me taking the 4 year old on Homestead










We then had a pretty long day on the river Saturday. We did around 20 miles. We saw maybe a handful of groups. The Burnt Ranch rapids were actually pretty big compared to what I had seen on videos. Luckily no one was too concerned and everyone did great. My wife even oared the 143R through it for her very first rapid on her own. 

We ended up staying at the Last Chance campsites at around river mile 119. There were two other groups around there, one looked like a commercial fishing trip. There were a few much better campsites that we passed by but since we were driving back on Sunday we wanted as little time on the river as possible the next day.

There was also a rattlesnake that went right through our camp on its way to the water. Luckily one of the adults found it (almost stepped on it). We just chased it into the river.

Camp day 2




























The kid crew










All in all we had an amazing time. Even the take out wasn't very busy. There was a large group that was launching at Clarno but when we pulled up they moved to the side and we were able to get our boats up and get the trailer and get everything loaded right away. There was one other group behind us that came right as we were finishing up. I think taking out on Sunday made a big difference since I would imagine that most were taking out on Monday.

Thanks for everyone's advice, it was greatly appreciated.


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## elkhaven (Sep 11, 2013)

Awesome! Glad you had great trip! Such a fun place.

We often do the short first day on the Smith, it essentially puts you as the first group of the next days put ins. I wouldn't have thought of doing that on the JD for some reason.

Thanks for the update!


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## donutboy (Sep 13, 2015)

*That is great! Sounds like you nailed it!*

Thanks for posting those pics. Looks like a great trip for all


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