# Water filter or folly?



## DidNotWinLottery (Mar 6, 2018)

My Emergency back up is to just drink the water in the West. But I am crazy like that. I have drank from many western streams along rivers. Life is better unfiltered!


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## caverdan (Aug 27, 2004)

I bought one of these and carry with me on all my camping trips......... be it lake, river or car camping. Works like a champ , but you still need to settle the water before filtering. 

Stream


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

Aqua Partner.. Everything else pales in comparison, and yes, they are spendy..


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## Wallrat (Jan 19, 2021)

Filtered. Always. Because giardia sucks.


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## Big Wave (6 mo ago)

Wallrat said:


> Filtered. Always. Because giardia sucks.


Agreed. When I was growing up my father owned a big sheep ranching operation. We never carried canteens we would just drink out of what ever body of water was available regardless of whether 2000 head of sheep might be upstream. I was in my 20’s before I ever heard about giardia. 
I drank right out of the river quite a bit when I guided in Grand Canyon. Then norovirus came along and although I never got it. Filtered Always.


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## Wallrat (Jan 19, 2021)

I’ve had giardia several times. It’s really nasty…and undignified. Like you’ve got compressed air and a waterhose coming out your backside. Damn. It’s just nasty. Think of nonstop projectile vomiting, then swap ends.


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## Electric-Mayhem (Jan 19, 2004)

The trick in the video was more to remove sediment than make it safe for drinking.... so it would be an alternative method to a floculant like Alum or Water Wizard or the like then something that would make it safe to drink from a biological standpoint.

I'm definitely gonna try it next time I'm on a river beach.


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## mkashzg (Aug 9, 2006)

Big Wave said:


> Agreed. When I was growing up my father owned a big sheep ranching operation. We never carried canteens we would just drink out of what ever body of water was available regardless of whether 2000 head of sheep might be upstream. I was in my 20’s before I ever heard about giardia.
> I drank right out of the river quite a bit when I guided in Grand Canyon. Then norovirus came along and although I never got it. Filtered Always.


I used to drink the water in GC also for the first day or so but never below the LCR. Up until maybe 2007 or so the water coming out from the dam was cold and bacteria fee but then the lake warmed and 'flipped' and those days ended.


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## jerseyjeff (Apr 16, 2016)

Wallrat said:


> I’ve had giardia several times. It’s really nasty…and undignified. Like you’ve got compressed air and a waterhose coming out your backside. Damn. It’s just nasty. Think of nonstop projectile vomiting, then swap ends.


You know, if they put that quote on water filter displays, they would triple the sales instantly. On trips I fear norovirus, ecoli, and giardia above almost all else. Sucks that you had try it a few times. Great way to lose weight though.


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## Wallrat (Jan 19, 2021)

jerseyjeff said:


> You know, if they put that quote on water filter displays, they would triple the sales instantly. On trips I fear norovirus, ecoli, and giardia above almost all else. Sucks that you had try it a few times. Great way to lose weight though.


It was in a foreign country. Before filters were readily available. I lost 25 lbs. in three months there. No more fat American!


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## Shaft (Aug 7, 2017)

I've posted this before, but I'm carrying these for the handwash and as a backup water filter...









Amazon.com : P&G Purifier of Water Portable Water Purifier Packets. Emergency Water Filter Purification Powder Packs for Camping, Hiking, Backpacking, Hunting, and Traveling. (12 Packets) : Sports & Outdoors


Amazon.com : P&G Purifier of Water Portable Water Purifier Packets. Emergency Water Filter Purification Powder Packs for Camping, Hiking, Backpacking, Hunting, and Traveling. (12 Packets) : Sports & Outdoors



www.amazon.com


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## tBatt (May 18, 2020)

I generally carry these.









Amazon.com: Datrex Emergency Water Packet - 3 Day/72 Hour Supply(12packets) : Tools & Home Improvement


Buy Datrex Emergency Water Packet - 3 Day/72 Hour Supply(12packets): Screwdrivers - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases



www.amazon.com





and mix it with this


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

OMG, say it ain't so. 

Do you guys not know the deadly facts about water ?!?!?!?!

FACT
Water can be chemically synthesized by burning rocket fuel !!
FACT
Over-consumption can cause excessive sweating, frequent urination and even death !!
FACT
100% of all serial killers, rapists and drug dealers have admitted to drinking water !!!
FACT
Water is one of the primary ingredients in herbicides and pesticides !!!
FACT
Water is the leading cause of drowning !!!
FACT
100% of all people exposed to water will DIE !!!


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## Wallrat (Jan 19, 2021)

That’s it. I’m sticking strictly to beer.


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## Paco (Aug 3, 2007)

I just think it's funny that the OP threw out an interesting video for discussion and was met with exactly one response to said video (Electric Mayhem for the win. Not for the first time) and a bunch of "well I use this kind of filter" and "this is the best kind of filter" and "I shat my pants once..." 

Good ol' Mountain Buzz!


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## TJP (Nov 20, 2020)

Paco said:


> I just think it's funny that the OP threw out an interesting video for discussion and was met with exactly one response to said video (Electric Mayhem for the win. Not for the first time) and a bunch of "well I use this kind of filter" and "this is the best kind of filter" and "I shat my pants once..."
> 
> Good ol' Mountain Buzz!


This post is playing the long game. Next year when someone posts they tried it and it worked/failed we might all get a new tool in the toolbox. If we were all able to focus on the task at hand, there would be a lot less posting on the Buzz.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

TJP said:


> Maybe there’s something to this? Obviously not drinking quality, and would need some adjustments to allow for a larger quantity of water like digging down and putting in a concrete form tube to make a deeper, consolidated hole. Water wizard is more convenient in my opinion. Maybe an emergency backup? Thought it was interesting and possibly applicable for western rivers. Anyone tried something similar?
> 
> 
> __
> https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/comments/z3oghf


Interesting. It's getting out all the fine sediments...but if you had any bacterial contamination, you'd have already contaminated the initial pool. You could get some of the bacteria/microorganisms out, but not all of them.

Maybe start with two adjacent holes, put the water only in the first, and the second would only fill from the side?
Or if you started with rainwater in a single previously-dug pothole, dig a 2nd and 3rd hole as above.


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## Big Wave (6 mo ago)

Sorry for not staying on the thread but even though I’m not a rocket scientist I can pretty much guarantee that water would be contaminated. You could boil it and be good. 
I use alum to settle water and then filter. 
However a major problem for me with alum is that if you use water treated with alum to make coffee and enjoy creamer or half and half they will separate. So you could use that method for your coffee water. But I think it’s probably easier to just settle water for coffee in a bucket.
Now the big question is what kind of bucket. Round, square or Yeti and how do you keep them from sticking together. 
If I were ever to get stranded in the desert and needed to drink untreated water that is a cool trick.


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## Will Amette (Jan 28, 2017)

@Big Wave 

Maybe you're using too much alum. 

Those guys using the refill-the-sand-hole aren't drinking that water directly; the ARE making coffee, so they'll be boiling the water to kill organisms. Note also, if you decide to forego water and just drink beer, that's going to wreck your coffee, too. Yuck. OK, maybe I'll try it just for fun, but I'm thinking.... no bueno.


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## Big Wave (6 mo ago)

Will Amette said:


> @Big Wave
> 
> Maybe you're using too much alum.
> 
> Those guys using the refill-the-sand-hole aren't drinking that water directly; the ARE making coffee, so they'll be boiling the water to kill organisms. Note also, if you decide to forego water and just drink beer, that's going to wreck your coffee, too. Yuck. OK, maybe I'll try it just for fun, but I'm thinking.... no bueno.


Been using it a long time. Normally a capful off a IV bottle per 5 gal Tablespoon?How much do you use and that you don’t have that problem. I’m boating Colorado River basin.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

Big Wave said:


> Sorry for not staying on the thread but even though I’m not a rocket scientist I can pretty much guarantee that water would be contaminated. You could boil it and be good.
> I use alum to settle water and then filter.
> However a major problem for me with alum is that if you use water treated with alum to make coffee and enjoy creamer or half and half they will separate. *So you could use that method for your coffee water. But I think it’s probably easier to just settle water for coffee in a bucket.*
> Now the big question is what kind of bucket. Round, square or Yeti and how do you keep them from sticking together.
> If I were ever to get stranded in the desert and needed to drink untreated water that is a cool trick.


aah! And as the guys in the video (and Will Amette noted), they're making coffee...and they take their coffee seriously.

Maybe a parlor trick, but maybe also worth doing at least once to fully enjoy "river coffee".


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## Wallrat (Jan 19, 2021)

Coffee comes in cans too y’know.


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## Big Wave (6 mo ago)

Not my coffee. It comes in a pot.


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## Will Amette (Jan 28, 2017)

Big Wave said:


> Been using it a long time. Normally a capful off a IV bottle per 5 gal Tablespoon?How much do you use and that you don’t have that problem. I’m boating Colorado River basin.


There's an equation to get the dose in pounds. It is the concentration of the solution in mg/L times how many millions of gallons you are treating times 8.34 pounds per gallon. So you need to know the concentration of the alum solution you're using, and of course this is set up for a water plant in millions of gallons per day. I use liquid alum. You can make it at home from powdered alum by dissolving alum in hot water until some precipitates. It's then saturated. You can add more alum so you can top off the liquid and still have a saturated solution.

For alkaline water like from Grand Canyon, I add a tiny bit of soda ash to adjust the pH down just a bit. I pour maybe a third or a half of a soda pop cap into a bucket full of silty water. Then I stir it VIGOROUSLY with a canoe paddle; lots of splashing. This gets the sediment in contact with the alum and let the flocs get started. Then I swirl it gently with the paddle. For multiple buckets, I do the vigorous mode on them all first, then swirl. The swirling lets the floc continue to build in size but not break up. It usually settles really well within an hour. Decant to another bucket before filtering is best and if you have another bucket. Then run through filter of your choice and add two drops of 6% bleach per gallon and wait at least 20 minutes for the bleach to work before consuming.

The first time I used alum it was water that was already pretty clear, and I used way too much. It tasted awful.

If you're on a long trip, you can settle your dishwater, too. You'll get a good idea of the dose after the first day or two. Make a line of buckets and dose with the smallest amount you can, then a little more in the next bucket. You'll soon figure it out. If you only use what you need and nothing more, all the alum should be incorporated in the floc that settles out.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

Wallrat said:


> Coffee comes in cans too y’know.


Good heavens man, you do like to suffer, don't you?!


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## Wallrat (Jan 19, 2021)

I’ve always had an affinity for it. Suffering is good for you. Anyway, the man was talking about using beer to make coffee! There have to be limits in life! We have to draw the line somewhere.


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## Electric-Mayhem (Jan 19, 2004)

Will Amette said:


> There's an equation to get the dose in pounds. It is the concentration of the solution in mg/L times how many millions of gallons you are treating times 8.34 pounds per gallon. So you need to know the concentration of the alum solution you're using, and of course this is set up for a water plant in millions of gallons per day. I use liquid alum. You can make it at home from powdered alum by dissolving alum in hot water until some precipitates. It's then saturated. You can add more alum so you can top off the liquid and still have a saturated solution.
> 
> For alkaline water like from Grand Canyon, I add a tiny bit of soda ash to adjust the pH down just a bit. I pour maybe a third or a half of a soda pop cap into a bucket full of silty water. Then I stir it VIGOROUSLY with a canoe paddle; lots of splashing. This gets the sediment in contact with the alum and let the flocs get started. Then I swirl it gently with the paddle. For multiple buckets, I do the vigorous mode on them all first, then swirl. The swirling lets the floc continue to build in size but not break up. It usually settles really well within an hour. Decant to another bucket before filtering is best and if you have another bucket. Then run through filter of your choice and add two drops of 6% bleach per gallon and wait at least 20 minutes for the bleach to work before consuming.
> 
> ...


Water Wizard takes a lot of the math out of the equation, takes less time, and really isn't any more expensive. I think its like $15 a kit and it does 250 gallons worth. It comes with a syringe and you just squirt one syringe worth in a 5 gallon bucket, stir vigorously, and then let it sit and less then 20 minutes later its ready to decant.

This is what I think of when I think Beer and Coffee...yumm...










Still gotta try that sand trick though...if for nothing but curiosity.


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## Will Amette (Jan 28, 2017)

Electric-Mayhem said:


> Water Wizard takes a lot of the math out of the equation, takes less time, and really isn't any more expensive. I think its like $15 a kit and it does 250 gallons worth. It comes with a syringe and you just squirt one syringe worth in a 5 gallon bucket, stir vigorously, and then let it sit and less then 20 minutes later its ready to decant.
> 
> This is what I think of when I think Beer and Coffee...yumm...
> 
> ...



I agree, and I'm excited to try Water Wizard in the future. It is a slightly different chemistry, and it apparently works very well. Easy to carry. 

Coffee stout. Reminds me of a time back in 1993 or thereabouts. I was living in Utah and working at a ski hill. I'd often invite some of my coworkers to come enjoy a homebrew when we got back to town. I was brewing a LOT of beer back then because.... Utah. 

So there was this week where I was just not sleeping well. I couldn't figure it out. Then one day I looked in the closet where I stored the beer. The closet had an exterior wall, and our heat wasn't that good, so the beer actually stayed a really nice drinking temperature in the closet. Anyway, I looked at the shelf I had been pulling bottles from. Sure enough, it was an espresso porter. Head slap. That's it. I made several coffee beers. This one bit me back.

That's the ONLY way to have coffee and beer together. Boiling beer with coffee grounds is a bad idea, and no I'm not really going to try it even though I mentioned it because, as I wrote -- no bueno.


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## richp (Feb 27, 2005)

With silted water, if I have time I fill buckets and let them sit for an hour or two. Then you can carefully pour the much cleaner water off the top into a fresh container, and let the alum work much more efficiently.


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## Will Amette (Jan 28, 2017)

richp said:


> With silted water, if I have time I fill buckets and let them sit for an hour or two. Then you can carefully pour the much cleaner water off the top into a fresh container, and let the alum work much more efficiently.


In our water treatment plant, they just have to deal with whatever the turbidity is of the incoming water. The alum works efficiently at a wide range of turbidity if you have the dose right. The challenge for the plant operators is "catching up" if turbidity changes a lot between the time they shut it down at night and start it up the next day. We have two water plants; one runs 24/7, and the other turns on to make however much we need for the day to keep reservoirs at desired levels.

It takes quite a while for water to get through the process and out to the filters, so there's a "pilot filter" that runs faster so the operators can find the right dose quicker if the river has changed in turbidity a lot since the previous day.

Back in 1996 when we had crazy flooding, at least one of the operators stayed at the plant. Truth be told, he wasn't able to get home. The operators basically throttled the plant WAY DOWN to a very low rate since there wasn't a whole lot of water demand. By keeping the plant running, they were able to keep up with the dosage of alum. I suspect he also earned a crapton of overtime. 

The flocculant will work at a range of turbidities. It's all about the dose rate, and that's why it can be a good idea to just do some trial and error with the water you're getting during the one to four weeks of your particular trip on a silty river.


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