# Where would you move?



## farp (Nov 4, 2003)

Once again the wife and I are deperate to get the hell out of NW Penn. With renewed vigor due to the deporable living standards in the armpit of the east, we have two options that may rear their pretty heads. 

So from a paddling point of view where is a better place to live. 
Placerville, CA or Kalispell, MT. 

Your input could become a major influence in our final decision. 

I want to make a better choice than "Any place but here."

Thanks


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## cuzin (Oct 4, 2007)

I can't really speak for Kalispell, but Placerville would be an incredible place to live, boating wise. You essentially live on the South Fork American, which has 20 miles of year-round class III and good play. Upstream is Slab Creek, a class V stretch which is currently being relicensed to (hopefully) have releases several weeks a year. There's Golden Gate above that, which is solid V-V+ in the spring, and oh yeah, the South Silver is a half hour drive from your back door. Not good enough? You're within an hour of the Wild and Scenic North Fork American (Chamberlain Falls, Giant Gap, Generation Gap, Royal Gorge - how big do you want to go?), and have good access to the Mokulumne, Consumnes, Stanislaus, Yuba, and are an easy drive down to the Touolumne to hit Cherry Creek which runs all summer long or the lower T, an excellent Class IV one or two day. Willing to go a bit further still? You'd be within 3 hours of the Kings and the Middle Feather, each offering quite possibly two of the best multi day self support trips in the country. Of course, I hear Montana has cows, so that could be cool, too.


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## codyhoward (Feb 26, 2007)

I've lived in Missoula, Bozeman and Cali. So do you like winters? - MT Do you have a big budget? -CA This all is arguable, but if i could choose, it would have to be Placerville. Just because the long Montana winters where brutal for me (a SW guy). But if you can hang with that, then you have some of the best paddling around, with TONS of options in MT.


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## BastrdSonOfElvis (Mar 24, 2005)

I just watched The Shining and the opening heli shots following Jack's car as he drives from Denver to Estes Park were really filmed in Glacier National Park and the scenery is incredible. Not far at all from Flathead region.

I am a fellow NW PA expatriot. I have felt your pain. Get out of there and never look back. I do miss all the greenery, though.

Go Stillers!


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## mania (Oct 21, 2003)

hi I am from NW PA long time ago and I would pick MT.


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## David Spiegel (Sep 26, 2007)

Honestly, if you are moving out west from a strictly paddling perspective, you should move to washington sate. Western Washington/Seattle probably has some of the best paddling, especially creeking in the country, not to mention what I would claim to be the longest boating season of any region in the US. This, combined with excellent spring playboating only 2 hours away on the Wenatchee all spring makes it an ideal place for a boater to live.

So in my opinion, the areas around Seattle, WA or Eugene, OR are your best bets for good long paddling seasons out west.


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## farp (Nov 4, 2003)

BSOE-I think I remember reading you're from Venango County, PA. I don't know if you have Franklin or Oil City alliences (if any), but here's some Oil City footage from a game a couple weeks ago. You might find it humorous.

YouTube - Oil City vs. Erie East FIGHT!

My wife and I live in Warren. That's right, the bung-hole of NW PA. Thanks for your input. Hopefully SYOTR, but not the Allegheny.


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## BastrdSonOfElvis (Mar 24, 2005)

I'm from kind of between Franklin and Oil City in Seneca. You need 10X mag to see it on the map. I hope Oil City lost whatever game that was. YouTube is blocked by the guvvy firewall so I can't check it out.

Warren is actually very pretty. It's nice up there with the reservoir and all. Not much to do outside that doesn't involve something with fur dying.

Move to MT.

Peace.


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## paddlebizzle (Oct 15, 2003)

*Mild Thread Hijacking*

I am going to tag along on this thread - sorry for the slight diversion.

My wife and I live in Denver, but we're seriously thinking of moving. Frankly, boating and surfing are more appealing than skiing (gasp) to us now, and we're over winter :roll:

We're thinking of Charlotte, Raleigh/Durham, and Charlston, because I need a city with good roots in finance-related industries.

What is the job market like in Placerville? Anyone? Anyone?

Other places we're forgetting? This is where the thread gets hijacked, sorry. . .


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## stonefly (Feb 23, 2007)

*On Cali and Montana...*

The things that you would probably like about NW Montana in comparison to Cali are changing fast. Kalispell/Glacier/Whitefish area is under MAJOR HIGH SPEED DEVELOPMENT with no end in sight. The area is quickly becoming homogenized with the good ol' mainstream American stripmall-style sweetness that we all love to hate. It will be a tourist trap meets retirement community meets suburban nightmare in the very near future with enough imitation authenticity to make Wall Drug blush. The area, of course, has plenty of great things to offer paddlers, and any outdoor enthusiast for that matter, but it may no longer be what you were expecting. Nothing gold can stay... 
Season is much shorter for paddlin' but there are great runs all over the state and tons of excellent stuff in Alberta and BC(Don't let that border fool you into thinking the Canadian Rockies aren't right there) with very few paddlers in between. I prefer less crowds and more wilderness these days, but the better "whitewater" with the easiest accessibilty is clearly in Cali. The better quality of life, in my opinion, is still to be found in Montana. Which is why Californians still come here in droves....
Good l uck to you.
Dave


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## northfwestg (Feb 23, 2006)

*cali or bust*

well now farp, so ya wanna come to montucky where the paddlin season is three months long, glaciated water that never gets above 40 degrees, or class three, 8 solid months of winter,10 days of sun all ski season long, 1000 inches of snow, megatropolis slutpuppy of KALIHELL, bitch ass rich sister WHITEFISH next door and people who take shots at you during hunting season, hell no go on to cali where you can live that dream young lad, be safe choose cali, do it for your family...


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## moabmic (Apr 13, 2004)

South Main


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## benpetri (Jul 2, 2004)

This thread has already been pretty beaten to death but I'll pitch my 2 cents anyway.

Your two options are almost complete opposites. I haven't truely "lived" at either destination, but I had family that lived in Auburn and Folsom out in cali, which is only some 20-30 miles from Placerville. This part of the family is very outdoorsy, and after living out there some 20 or so years, they got fed up and moved to... Pinedale Wyoming. Which is not radically different from montucky, and they love it there. Both are great boating destinations, but it depends on what kind of boating you're looking for. The attitudes of people in the two destinations are also very different. In Cali, you're going to run into more of the "get the &$%# out of my way!" type, while Montucky is a lot more laid back. 

If you're hoping for a year round work out creek, cali is more likely to give it to you than montucky (although oregon / washington state is even better). However, you will have to be tollerant of all the suburbia shit you have to drive through, usually traffic jammed, to get to said creek, and although there is boating to be had year round, in the winter you will still be confined to only a few dam release or low water runs, or face a long drive to the northern edge of the state where there is water that time of year. Even in Placerville, you may find yourself spending an incredable amount of time on the road just trying to get to the S. Fork American. I should say though that cali runs are of the highest quality though, once you get to them.

If you're looking for high adventure runs where griz outnumber the other paddlers on the runs, montucky is a better bet. Plus I think having Alberta / BC close at hand would be priceless. But you pay with a long winter. I'm tollerant of winter, and also a wilderness rat, so if I was faced with the choice, I'd give MT a whirl.

As for the development in Kalispell, unfortunately thats the scene all over the west at this point. Remember its California that set the bar for such shitty development. I love my family, eventhough they might have contributed. So the pace of destruction looks about like this

California = Thoroughly destroyed, but there's still a few rivers left to be dammed (N. Fork American?)
Colorado = well on its way to thorough destruction, Californians have been moving here in droves for 20 years now
Montana/Wyoming = Threatened Frontier - californians moving there for about 5 years.


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## jmack (Jun 3, 2004)

From a paddling point of view, the central sierras would be a five star destination. There are really too many runs to list but check out a wet state, cacreeks, and caliproduct. Everything from Class III to however big you want to go. In a good year, there is natural water from December through June, plus dam releases, lots of them. And Northern Cali is only weekend drive away. Be forewarned, however, that the area will probably be full with people you don't like, it won't be as cool as it used to be, and "development" will completely destroy your ability to enjoy the kick-ass whitewater that surrounds you in every direction.


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## northfwestg (Feb 23, 2006)

*mantana dont want you*

well farp, just two days ago i was scoping a secret wave on public property near kalispell, and was shot at twice. If i were you i would stick to cali, you would rather deal with development and cali attitude than a double barrel. true story bra


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## Yonder_River (Feb 6, 2004)

Just get it over with and move to the PacNW. Ya, it's grey a lot during the winter but who cares, sunshine is overated when you know you can paddle on the weekend. 

I can't decide what class V run I should paddle this Saturday, hmm...maybe Robe, Top Tye, Canyon Creek, Foss, Money since they'll all be running. And meanwhile, the snow is starting to pile up at the passes. Life is tough.


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## JBradley (Feb 18, 2007)

Moabmic,

"South Main" can kiss it. That type of living is exactly what is wrong with this world. Reading the "stipulations of living" made me sick. C-U-L-T living! almost like the "perfect" town in Bigfish the movie. 

JB


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## farp (Nov 4, 2003)

Awesome feedback. Thanks to all. While it's still rolling let me ask this. Let's say a person has a banged up shoulder (not me, just hypothetically) where's a better place to live. Which has better things to do other than boating (i.e. for the wife).

P.S. Somebody mentioned Pinedale, WY. I've done some fishing up there and that's one of the greatest places I've ever been. The west is the best.


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## possumturd (Jul 13, 2006)

*pinedale*

visual here.

Pinedale Wyoming and Sublette County Wyoming Webcams, Pinedale Online

downtown pinedale:


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## northfwestg (Feb 23, 2006)

*sumthing to do in montucky*

aint shit to do in mantana, watch the cows, avoid the meth,clean the trailer,occaisionally rent the vhs from the fried goods deli down near the unemployement office go home to the sun lamps cause there aint no sunshine up in this biatch, wish i were in cali


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## Rick M (Dec 18, 2006)

California housing is expensive but the area around Placerville is very nice. Yes, traffic sucks and in general us California folks tend to move a little faster than most of the country. The boating community here is awesome, really great people. I won't go over the rivers here as that subject has been well covered but I paddle 12 months out of the year and not in snow either (a little ice once or twice though). There are so many people here because of the weather. Ya just can't beat it. I don't know what you do for a living but if you could make a living there I would look at Nevada City/Grass Valley, a little north of Placerville, a little slower pace and a little quieter.


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## moabmic (Apr 13, 2004)

Although I can understand your perspective there are two things worth considering: 1) Would it have been better to have a gated private access resort time share community on the site or a public access development with responsible architecture, green building standards, and a focus on community?

&

2) I would rather "concentrate" all of the transient high rollers into a community like South Main whereas their economic impact will now be focused into BV instead of the alternative of them buying 5-50 acre lots and putting monstrous energy sucking trophy homes down while driving allover the place. 

I think the model is right in emulating the historic towns of 100years ago when people would live close together for the synergy of community, lack of SUVs and other gas sucking transports, and the lack of internet to communicate (as opposed to talking directly to your neighbor). When gas hits $5/gallon a tight walking based community will appeal and being right on the river will be pretty sweet. Interesting reading for anyone wanting to relocate is : Peak Oil: Life After the Oil Crash

Over the next two years all of our lives will be changing in many ways....

Alright, enough! Flame on boys and girls!:twisted:



JBradley said:


> Moabmic,
> 
> "South Main" can kiss it. That type of living is exactly what is wrong with this world. Reading the "stipulations of living" made me sick. C-U-L-T living! almost like the "perfect" town in Bigfish the movie.
> 
> JB


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## Jahve (Oct 31, 2003)

South Main is gettin flamed by a arkansan! Someone from the "home of wall mart" is sayin south main is cult livin.....  

Super funny... 

Dont worry about us up here in BV... You have no idea about the good south main project has done for town of BV, the area (that used to be the town dump), or the river.. 

It is probably better for you to stay in Arkansas anyway... The whitewater park here sucks, no quality creeks in the area, mtn bike trails are unkept, the motorized single track is hard to find, there is no BC lines anywhere near here in the winter (pretty sure berthod pass is close), and in the spring it is cold until the 4th of july...


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## carvedog (May 11, 2005)

RDNEK said:


> South Main is gettin flamed by a arkansan! Someone from the "home of wall mart" is sayin south main is cult livin.....
> 
> Super funny...
> 
> ...



When I read about South Main, I did think Stepford Paddlers when I got done. But at least they are trying to do it right. Green construction can make a big difference in health too, it's not just about paying a guilt tax.

Surprised no body pitched in about Idaho. Of course there aren't big cities up on the Payette. Kind of like Montucky but with sun, more rivers and winter runs except for the coldest part of the year. Great ski resorts close by, mellow vibe lots of other stuff to do. Middle Fork and Main Salmon, Hells Canyon. Actually now that I am writing it down you have to drive too far, the locals will always try to outredneck you and the creeking isn't great.8) 

The NF Payette and Canyon are over rated. Too close to the road. The reasons just keep coming.....


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