# Rated M for motors



## matt man

That was awesome! Thank you for sharing!
No such thing as to long of a Grand Canyon video, as far as I'm concerned
DUMPING again in the Colorado river head waters, hears to another awesome boating season!!


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## tanderson

Bravo! This was a great video. Thanks for such effort putting this together. Many people have a gro pro and camera, but few take the time to make something like this. Also, I guess I won’t be a real motorman until I rock a sleeveless shirt! 

Viva the motorized oar!


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## raymo

I don't know who was driving but that was a sweet move next to the big wall, swinging his nose back up stream than doing a slow 180°, than motoring away from the wall, nice move. May-June is high water month's for Cat, perfect water for the big-iron boats and so much fun. Enjoyed that great video. Thanks for sharing. Greg such a great guy, it's been a few years sense we've shared a bottle of JD together. My son-in-law's and daughters wanted me to go to Alaska over Memorial Day for some fishing also and I had to say no, my health is kicking my butt. So, thank you for the kind offer. Looking forward to the Cat video and that S rig your strapping together. We will have to get together with Greg and have a few cold ones, though.


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## 2tomcat2

Great escape, thanks, as I sit here with a splinted dislocated elbow/ulnar fracture...great job and fun times!


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## T.O.Mac

great videos @yardsells! thanks for sharing!


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## bcpnick

Awesome. Thanks for sharing that.


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## yardsells

ya'ller too kind. Thank you.

Raymo: That's Lloyd driving that boat. Heck of a boatman. He's bringing down some parts for the S this weekend. We'll be in Erie at our buddy's hangar on Saturday working on the S if you'd like to stop by. PM me and I'll give you the details.

tanderson: gun show on Cat!! I'll be breaking out the hillbilly tuxedo!


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## raymo

Know it well. PM to you, don't know if it went through. BJ's Strawberry Restaurant(Convair) there had some decent frog legs back in the days, it's not there any more I believe. Like to see that S rig at sometime, probably not today, though.


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## yardsells

Got your PM. I'll touch base with Yeager and make sure he brings the beer. If you're ever landing at erie, you'll see the s, cant miss it. It even looks big from the air.


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## NightFloater

Ahhh, the smell of two stroke in the morning....


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## yardsells

NightFloater said:


> Ahhh, the smell of two stroke in the morning....


Not on the Grand. 4 strokes only.

Unless you're a big concessionaire and then you can run e-tecs.


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## NightFloater

Yes, you are correct. 4 strokes have been required in GC for decades now...More of a comment about motorheads in general and the mention about Cat. Besides, I just like my 2 strokes better than my 4 strokes. They smell better  Hope everyone has a blast on the flood, we don't have big water every year!


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## raymo

John I was just at Erie, no body was home. Text me your telephone number.


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## okieboater

A really nice job on the video.

Many of us shoot the video but few take the time to organize, add music and all the best memory making images.

Thank You for sharing, many memories


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## noahfecks

where's the pics of the S?


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## raymo

Give Mr. yardsells some time to post some pictures, I have been out to the airport hangar twice, their S-rig is comming along beautifully. It looks like an aircraft carrier next to their J3 Cub airplane in the back 40, behind the hangar. It's going to be one slick S-rig.


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## yardsells

Well. Here's a video clip. A little dramatic but... hey, it's a big freaking boat. 



https://youtu.be/TRncyeEy7sQ


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## akgrowntoyotagal

Dang! And I thought our 22' snout was cool. Dam! Your S rig is a SERIOUS motor rig! Wowza! Curious - the front half of the frame - what are all the cross bars for? Structural support or are those giant removable tables??? Or structural supports topped with removable tables? At 0:22 it looks like you've got full size 8x4 banquet tables ready to roll. Impressive setup!


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## richp

Hi,

Nice looking rig. One quick comment/reaction.

On the J rigs I have seen, the transverse "weenie tube" was mounted down between the two big frame segments, to act as a hinge, rather than sitting on top them. What's the strategy here?

No criticism, just asking...

Rich Phillips


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## yardsells

akgrowntoyotagal said:


> what are all the cross bars for? Structural support or are those giant removable tables??? Or structural supports topped with removable tables? At 0:22 it looks like you've got full size 8x4 banquet tables ready to roll. Impressive setup!


They're removable counter height tables that double as decks under way. We figured why not double duty those babies. They're kinda crude emt tubing but for the money, hard to beat.
That "banquet" table is actually just 24"x72" low table we use for dish washing. We did steal the legs of an old folding table we found in a dumpster...


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## yardsells

richp said:


> What's the strategy here?
> 
> Rich Phillips


Laziness... The 16" gap between the 2 frames is technically the "hinge".The perpendicular tube is called a crush tube which as it's name implies, keeps folks from getting crushed in the gap between the frames. 
I picked up a crusty military roller tube, found an old leaky aircell, patched the aircell, threw zippers on the crush tube to facilitate the aircell install and that was about all the energy I had left. I figure it's length will work for now and if too many passengers complain, I'll consider cutting it down a little... Later.


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## noahfecks

I like it!


Looking forward to seeing it fully rigged out


Do you plan to run the Dick tubes all the time or just in flows above 80k?


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## yardsells

noahfecks said:


> Do you plan to run the Dick tubes all the time or just in flows above 80k?


I suppose we'll run em whenever they'll benefit the rig. I think part of the beauty of the S is the outrigger tubes. It's like al a carte. We can run them when we feel like it or maybe even remove them, throw some oar towers on and row her like Raymo used to in the day. I'd like to become a member of that club. 

But first, I wanna smash huge waves with 12 of my closest non-motorized buddies sitting on top of 1 thousand pounds of cocktail ice, 2 inch thick Ribeyes, and my favorite Speyside.


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## NightFloater

Looking forward to seeing all the Colorado flags in Cat this Spring!


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## noahfecks

Love it, having a motor rig for support can make certain trips great!


assuming that's a surplus 33? that would be a handful to row. Rowed a 27 once and it was a chore.


Was a commercial motorman on the upper CO and green years ago myself so it's neat to see some privates with the combustion oar


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## azpowell

man, i think this thread finally pushed me over the line.... time to build a snout!


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## yardsells

noahfecks said:


> assuming that's a surplus 33?
> 
> r


Yes it is.


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## yardsells

azpowell said:


> man, i think this thread finally pushed me over the line.... time to build a snout!



Muahahaha.


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## raymo

yardsells...." throw some oar towers on and row her like Raymo use to in the day." .... Ya, with a nasty hangover and another divorce, not a pretty sight, but exciting. Nice build up on that S-Rig, great river day's ahead for sure.


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## yardsells

raymo said:


> Ya, with a nasty hangover and another divorce, not a pretty sight, but exciting.


That's funny!!

Although I do believe ALL river folks are a hot mess in one way or another.


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## tanderson

I left the at motor home twice. Rowed my flexy 13 foot Carlisle oars. Thankfully they were flat water trips (labyrinth and San Juan). It was fun 
Government rapid was a squeeze. I would be gripped to row big water on a big rig.


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## MT4Runner

yardsells said:


> Well. Here's a video clip. A little dramatic but... hey, it's a big freaking boat.
> 
> https://youtu.be/TRncyeEy7sQ



Deee-e-cent!

Urethane or hypalon coating for the white?
No issues TIG welding over the rubber?


That's awesome. Serious rig.

Agree with teh other posters, great skill on the motor, too. Really appreciate the quickness with which you T'ed up to the big waves in Lava.


And also appreciate the quality of the edit.


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## yardsells

MT4Runner said:


> Urethane or hypalon coating for the white?
> No issues TIG welding over the rubber?



The white is a prototype alkyd spray system I'm playing with for neoprene. It works shockingly well with little to no prep or adhesion promoters. The durability is in question but this is a great test bed. If it fails, I'll just remove it and coat it with a proven system.

The durability and flame resistance of the neoprene came in handy on numerous occasions. These surplus tubes are surprisingly bomber.


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## MT4Runner

Nice, I use alkyd enamel hardener with Rustoleum in the gallon can to paint all my gear. Much thicker/harder than bomb cans. Are you seeing any durability issues, or you simply "don't know until you know"?

Not sure if I want to ask about the other occasions! haha


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## yardsells

MT4Runner said:


> Are you seeing any durability issues, or you simply "don't know until you know"?


We're kinda in the "read and run" phase. I'll definitely keep you posted.


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## BGillespie

azpowell said:


> man, i think this thread finally pushed me over the line.... time to build a snout!


https://flagstaff.craigslist.org/boa/d/page-26-motor-snout-rig/6853786665.html


Edit: not mine and have no clue about it, other than potentially influencing bad boating decisions...


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## yardsells

"https://flagstaff.craigslist.org/boa...853786665.html"

Dang It!
My wife would kill me... Please someone buy this so I don't have to.


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## BGillespie

If my garage wasn't full of boats and car projects, I'd be on the way down to Flag with a trailer right now.


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## akgrowntoyotagal

*Post up your snout rig - frame and trailer pics!*

So I had no idea there were so many other snout owners and when I saw yardsells YT video it was awesome to see a whole group of you on one trip! We are not alone!  

This thread seems to be a safe place to discuss motor rigs (and I love the thread title), which in some groups you get lynched just for mentioning the “M” word - “Motors” - gasp! I’d love to see what kind of snout setups everyone is running. If there is already a thread showing off motor rigs and setups, please let me know. Otherwise - I’d love to see some pics here. 

I am specifically curious about what trailers everyone is running and what your frame setups are. I love thinking and planning and dreaming of frame setups, is that weird?  

Our setup was inherited and we’ve been working to improve it, but my least favorite part is the trailer. I think it is a legit trailer park trailer house trailer and is horrible. But it works for now and it’s what we’ve got. I dream of a better built trailer that we could have an easier time loading and unloading the boat. 

Our frame setup is decent, but the worst part is we’ve got the dreaded surplus tubes with the valves on the left side of the tube so our right tube has valves on the inside of the frame. We run with a constant fear of the tube shifting and valves shearing off. 

I’m going to attempt to post some pics of our setup and I’d love to see what everyone else has. The water shot is just from a lake trip we just took to test out our motors and is not how we run the river, but just to give an idea of our rig.


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## richp

Hi,

For me, the sweet spot was 20 foot 36 inch Jack's Plastic El Tigre Grande tubes, with a frame I worked up myself with NRS fittings. 

Rowed or motored nicely, as these Lava pictures show. Loved that boat, but I'm a bit past my prime now, and it is in someone else's good hands.

I admit freely, however, to lusting a little over that rig in Flag...

FWIW.

Rich Phillips


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## akgrowntoyotagal

Nice shots in Lava!  

Has anyone seen the rig in Flag that is for sale??? I emailed and asked for more pics, but never heard back - we are trying to grow our snout squad. If it is a legit frame and tubes for $2500, that’s a great deal. But if the tubes are anything like our original tubes they might be worthless. Our original tubes were so old and required daily topping off, sometimes mid day topping off. We got lucky and scored a still crated set of tubes by a chance run in on a Cat trip. But even if that rig is crap tubes and a decent frame - might be worth it for just the frame.


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## richp

Hi,

Would be a little light for a 22 foot full snout, but a converted regular boat trailer worked well for my intermediate sized rig. 

Removed the tilt arms, put in some crossbraces, and then added longitudinal carpeted platforms on either side for the tubes to rest on.

FWIW.

Rich Phillips


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## akgrowntoyotagal

Cool! Thanks for the pics! I’ve been eyeing some pontoon boat trailers. Neat to see you adapted a regular boat trailer for your setup.


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## tanderson

Move the valves to the other side of the tube. I’m moving mine in a couple weeks. I’m sure somebody has photos of there’s moved. I have been more freaked out on the valves shearing than any of the rapids or rock dodging I’ve done.


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## pwolfehagen

Just closed the deal on the flagstaff.craigslist boat. Driving to Page for pickup later this week. Will post some photos when I get her back to the shop. Look forward to hanging with some motor people.


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## MT4Runner

richp said:


> For me, the sweet spot was 20 foot 36 inch Jack's Plastic El Tigre Grande tubes, with a frame I worked up myself with NRS fittings.
> 
> Rowed or motored nicely, as these Lava pictures show. Loved that boat, but I'm a bit past my prime now, and it is in someone else's good hands.



Cool "dualsport" rig!!




pwolfehagen said:


> Just closed the deal on the flagstaff.craigslist boat. Driving to Page for pickup later this week. Will post some photos when I get her back to the shop. Look forward to hanging with some motor people.



This crew is apparently a buncha enablers!




akgrowntoyotagal said:


> I am specifically curious about what trailers everyone is running and what your frame setups are. I love thinking and planning and dreaming of frame setups, is that weird?
> 
> Our setup was inherited and we’ve been working to improve it, but my least favorite part is the trailer. I think it is a legit trailer park trailer house trailer and is horrible. But it works for now and it’s what we’ve got. I dream of a better built trailer that we could have an easier time loading and unloading the boat.



How about a pontoon boat trailer?


Trailer house axles/wheels/brakes are awful. They're designed to make a single 1,000 mile trip and then get scrapped. Bad bearings that are uncommon sizes, uncommon 14.5" tires, strange wheels with Dayton hubs. Simply installing new axles with common brakes/wheels would be a significant upgrade...but a good deal on a used pontoon trailer would probably be a better investment.


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## raymo

*Nice!!!*



pwolfehagen said:


> Just closed the deal on the flagstaff.craigslist boat. Driving to Page for pickup later this week. Will post some photos when I get her back to the shop. Look forward to hanging with some motor people.


Excellent! I don't think we can wait till you get her back to your shop. Snap some photos in Page AZ and post them up here on the Buzz. We're so bad.


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## akgrowntoyotagal

tanderson said:


> Move the valves to the other side of the tube. I’m moving mine in a couple weeks. I’m sure somebody has photos of there’s moved. I have been more freaked out on the valves shearing than any of the rapids or rock dodging I’ve done.


😲 Moving the valves! Genius! I never even thought about that! Now I’d love to hear who’s done it, how hard it was and if they had any problems relocating them. And of course pics are always a bonus!


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## akgrowntoyotagal

MT4Runner said:


> How about a pontoon boat trailer?
> 
> 
> Trailer house axles/wheels/brakes are awful. They're designed to make a single 1,000 mile trip and then get scrapped. Bad bearings that are uncommon sizes, uncommon 14.5" tires, strange wheels with Dayton hubs. Simply installing new axles with common brakes/wheels would be a significant upgrade...but a good deal on a used pontoon trailer would probably be a better investment.


Yes, that’s what I’ve been leaning towards - a pontoon boat trailer, but I was curious if anyone else is running them. Oh my, yes - we’ve had our share of the above listed problems. Had our bearings burn up on one trip - removed the wheel and strapped up the axel - thankful we alteast have dual axels. The wheels are the weirdest wheels I’ve ever seen. As we are dealing with motor issues amidst our prep for a Grand trip, we had to make the decision to refurb our current trailer, but I still like to research and see what some other options might be. 

I took my share of screenshots from yardsells YT video trying to identify their trailers and scoping out their frame setups - figured I’d post the question here instead of trying to play YT screenshot detective. 😝


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## yardsells

So moving the valves is the way to go. No more stress of busting a valve.
Most of us surplus folks have frames that accommodate the right tube valves on the inside. I moved mine when the tubes were still in the raw.
Originally moved the valve location and installed mirada research valves with recessed boots. That lasted maybe 4 or 5 years and just recently I swapped the miradas for C-7's. Way happier now.

Here's a couple pics:


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## yardsells

My snout trailer is a 20 ft deck over flatbed. I just welded a winch post on the nose, attached a 12k lb electric winch and built a couple 8" rollers for the back. Works great.

The S rig trailer is a salvaged travel trailer. We stripped everything off the deck, the frame was bent so we straightened it and boxed the I-beam frame to beef it up. We added a 12k lb electric winch and no rollers. We figure the end of the trailer will be under water anyway, We did add a snatch block mounting spot on the rear to help drag the boat off the trailer at spots without a boat ramp. Like Ouray.

My buddies steve and lloyd use pontoon boat trailers. I don't remember where Steve got his but Lloyd's was picked up in Dallas. Tons of toons in Texas.
I kinda like their setups because they're a lot lower to the water and therefore easier to load and unload. I work around that with the electric winches. I just drag the dang things onto the trailer.


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## akgrowntoyotagal

Yes! Thanks! Exactly what I was looking for - thanks for all the info! Did you do the valve swap yourself or take it to the professionals? If professionals, who would you recommend? I like the idea of C-7’s! 

Good point about Texas - I will have to start looking there to see what I can find for a used pontoon trailer. Thanks!


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## yardsells

I did it myself but I used to do this stuff for a living.

I can't speak for any other repair guys out there but I do know that Inflatable Technologies works on a ton of these big boats and does the maintenance on a lot of commercial company rigs.


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## yardsells

richp said:


> Hi,
> 
> For me, the sweet spot was 20 foot 36 inch Jack's Plastic El Tigre Grande tubes, with a frame I worked up myself with NRS fittings.


Did you used to run a tohatsu 18 on her? I swear I've salivated over that thing somewhere.


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## richp

Hi yardsells,

Yup, grey Tohatsu 18 with a Nissan 9.9 strapped down for a spare. 

Here it is being pulled on a turnaround run in Dubendorf. I had seen Hance deliberately motored backward, and thought I'd try it for fun, but somewhere not quite as long and complicated.

Rich


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## yardsells

richp said:


> Hi yardsells,
> 
> Yup, grey Tohatsu 18 with a Nissan 9.9 strapped down for a spare.
> 
> Here it is being pulled on a turnaround run in Dubendorf. I had seen Hance deliberately motored backward, and thought I'd try it for fun, but somewhere not quite as long and complicated.
> 
> Rich


That dang dubendorf is kinda my nemesis. I blew up a lower unit in there last year. I clipped that table rock just under the surface kinda left of center toward the bottom. I thought I had enough clearance... my buddy steve ran a nearly identical line to me but he cleared that bugger.

Yeah, I've seen your rig and thought "they clearly know what they're doing."


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## richp

Hi yardsells,

You're too kind. Every run there was a challenge to an old codger like me.

But I confess, it sure was fun. I enjoyed rowing it for its stability and predictable tracking, but a rig in that size range with a decent motor is pretty frisky and nimble, so it was sort of easy to maneuver out of pending doom.

Have a good one.

Rich


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## pwolfehagen

Aired her up today. Appears to mostly hold air. We'll see how it looks in the morning. Tubes are a bit rough and frame has numerous cracks. Frame goes to get stripped tomorrow so I can begin to address the bad welds.
Confident that I finish first in any ugly boat contest.


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## MotorMan27

yardsells said:


> Here's our trip vid from the Grand last year. Kinda long.
> 
> We're hoping to add more motor folks to our trips. I know you're out there.
> 
> Raymo: Memorial day Cat?!?! Sounds like Yeager will be there too. He's looking forward to seeing you again and catching up. Our S is almost done...
> 
> 
> https://youtu.be/AZAjKBosGRM


I'm a proud owner of a 27' pontoon.... working on some snout tubes for big Cats. If my middle fork trip doesn't go off in June bc of high water I'll be diverting to Cat bc 80k there doesn't scare me like 7ft on the middle fork.


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## BGillespie

pwolfehagen said:


> Aired her up today. Appears to mostly hold air. We'll see how it looks in the morning. Tubes are a bit rough and frame has numerous cracks. Frame goes to get stripped tomorrow so I can begin to address the bad welds.
> Confident that I finish first in any ugly boat contest.


Weld up the cracks, add some gussets, slap on a coat of paint and smash some high water Cat.

I'd rock the piss out of that boat with a big floppy hat and mai tai.


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## yardsells

BGillespie said:


> Weld up the cracks, add some gussets, slap on a coat of paint and smash some high water Cat.
> 
> I'd rock the piss out of that boat with a big floppy hat and mai tai.


Amen!!


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## pwolfehagen

BGillespie said:


> Weld up the cracks, add some gussets, slap on a coat of paint and smash some high water Cat.
> 
> I'd rock the piss out of that boat with a big floppy hat and mai tai.



That is exactly the plan. May 31st launch. Any motors care to join? Or oars for that matter. Planning 6 days.


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## AZJefe

Those look like surplus to me and not DIB tubes as the Craiglist post said. Still, helluva score and I think I'm totally jealous!!





pwolfehagen said:


> Aired her up today. Appears to mostly hold air. We'll see how it looks in the morning. Tubes are a bit rough and frame has numerous cracks. Frame goes to get stripped tomorrow so I can begin to address the bad welds.
> Confident that I finish first in any ugly boat contest.


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## yardsells

pwolfehagen said:


> That is exactly the plan. May 31st launch. Any motors care to join? Or oars for that matter. Planning 6 days.


I'd love to but I'm taking out of Cat on the 29th and then have a Grand launch 2 weeks later. I'd be cutting it too close for my wife's comfort level...:wink:


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## yardsells

MotorMan27 said:


> I'm a proud owner of a 27' pontoon.... working on some snout tubes for big Cats. If my middle fork trip doesn't go off in June bc of high water I'll be diverting to Cat bc 80k there doesn't scare me like 7ft on the middle fork.


Throw some sweeps on that 27 and get nasty on the fork!


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## MotorMan27

I rowed several yampas on a 27 commercially.... they were different beasts though... we called them 'spider boats' as they were much lighter than the 27's we motored. Even raced the holiday boys on island park.... a race I'd easily win unless the wind got over 2 mph.


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## CoBoater

how do you motor guys resist the temptation to zoom ahead of the honest folks on oar trips and steal their prime campsites they rowed hard all day for? just askin for a friend...


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## MotorMan27

There are a few scoundrels that do that in the GC I'm sure but the 2x I've motored the GC we were on hybrid trips and always communicated with the groups around us so camps weren't a problem. Cat is a lot different animal.... if you are down there without a motor of some kind you need your head examined and deserve to be aced out of a camp. Lol

Btw.... check out "Grand Canyon red white and blue" on YouTube, it's a video of my buddy and i motoring Crystal. Cavitation caused me to miss the cut and i put the ladies right in the bowels of the nail.


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## yardsells

CoBoater said:


> how do you motor guys resist the temptation to zoom ahead of the honest folks on oar trips and steal their prime campsites they rowed hard all day for? just askin for a friend...


#1. Generally just because folks have a motor, doesn't mean they're dicks. Although just like row boats, there are dicks out there. I wouldn't cut in front of your friend in a line at the grocery store and I hate being the guy who gets angry at the "late merge" folks in traffic but I do.

#2. Since we do wield tremendous power, we prioritize working with human powered trips. I also row/paddle. I have a Pro, Adventurer, and a Scout. I understand the perception of some row boaters and I empathize. Our motor group will slowly approach the last boat in a pod and ask if we can play through, generally discuss how their trip is going and talk about their camp plans and mileage hopes. Since our motor group are also row people, we strategize the least invasive way to pass the trip and execute in the most efficient manner. Once we're past the pod a reasonable distance, we barge up and discuss intel from the group we just passed and whether we need to modify our camp plans.

#3. It's funny how your friend's perception is that row boaters are honest and motor folks are not. I'm sorry your friend had a bad experience with a river motor person but rest assured, we're not all like that.


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## yardsells

MotorMan27 said:


> Btw.... check out "Grand Canyon red white and blue" on YouTube, it's a video of my buddy and i motoring Crystal.


Your buddy looks like Brent.


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## MT4Runner

yardsells said:


> #1. Generally just because folks have a motor, doesn't mean they're dicks. Although just like row boats, there are dicks out there. I wouldn't cut in front of your friend in a line at the grocery store and I hate being the guy who gets angry at the "late merge" folks in traffic but I do.
> 
> 
> #1
> #2
> #3



I'm a motor guy, but not a WW motor guy. Can't say how much I appreciate this thread and everything you've all shared, from technique, to video, to ethics.

If I'm lucky enough to get on the Grand, I'll be in a dory.

If I ever see you on the river, beer's on me.


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## MotorMan27

My buddy is Brent. .... every freaking body knows him.... some day he'll be in books and talked about along with powel, kolb, georgie. Lol


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## tanderson

Funny thing, I was devout oars only a mere 6 years ago. In fact, I donated to those anti-motor non-profits. I accidentally discovered the motor world. I will say that the motor-heads and associates are some of the best river folk I've met and ran with.

More than not, motor rigs are ran by very experienced rivermen and riverwomen that have years and years of running rivers coupled with great river etiquette and stories. 

When I pass row trips, I sometimes offer crisp cold beverages as a token of appreciation. After all, I have 400+beers!

We always ask them where they are heading to and navigate according to their destination. 


Motor rigs suck out of water but are heaven on. 

tda


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## cupido76

That video was awesome!

I have questions:

How many days do you take for a grand trip?

How much gas are you using, and how do you store it?

Have you ever popped a tube and had to repair on river? I'll bet that material is very thick a tough to work with.

Is there a way to lift/tilt the prop out of the water when you think you're getting shallow or are they fixed mount?


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## cupido76

Another question...

Have you ever flipped one? I imagine they would be a nightmare to try to right.


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## yardsells

tanderson said:


> When I pass row trips, I sometimes offer crisp cold beverages as a token of appreciation. After all, I have 400+beers!
> tda


I sometimes bring a freezer and offer row trips frozen margarita popsicles.


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## yardsells

cupido76 said:


> How many days do you take for a grand trip?


When we're strictly motor boats, we can take up to 12 days to Diamond.
If we're support and qualify for Hybrid status, we can take up to 14 days to Diamond.



cupido76 said:


> How much gas are you using, and how do you store it?


I typically carry 35 gallons in my fuel tank which in the video is located in front of me under my ammo cans and pelican. I can easily run Lee's to Pearce with 15-18 gallons to spare.



cupido76 said:


> Have you ever popped a tube and had to repair on river? I'll bet that material is very thick a tough to work with.


I have not put a hole in my tubes. The neoprene fabric is pretty thick on these things. I've also encapsulated my tubes with System 6 so they're even more stiff than usual but definitely burly. I did have a valve boot crack and leak last year but I was able to limp it down the river, which is always plan A with these things...



cupido76 said:


> Is there a way to lift/tilt the prop out of the water when you think you're getting shallow or are they fixed mount?


I run a manual jackass on my boat which allows me to raise the motor to varying depths without changing the angle. I have a couple buddies that don't run jackasses. I think that's the trend commercially too.
Jackasses seem to fall into the pin and clip vs. oar right type argument. 



cupido76 said:


> Have you ever flipped one? I imagine they would be a nightmare to try to right.


I have not flipped one in the wild. I've practice re-flipping it at home. I've seen pictures of them upside down and talked to folks that have had to deal with that situation. It isn't pretty.

I carry come-a-longs, mechanical advantage gear, Xanax and whisky just in case...:wink:


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## raymo

*Nice thinking.*



cupido76 said:


> Another question...
> 
> Have you ever flipped one? I imagine they would be a nightmare to try to right.


The standard rigging of 28 ft. to 33 ft. Pontoon boats in the day's was to have two wood frames made of 2x6's about 8 ft to 10 ft long, layed on top of the pontoon's and a four section plywood floor, with hinges along each section of the floor and suspended by chain's from the frame's to hold the floor half way up the tubes. The story I was told about two week after it happened was Outward Bound flipped a 33 footer, without outriggers in Warm Spring rapid. To flip it back over they removed the four section plywood floor and unloaded the cargo from the bottom of the boat, deflated one side of the boat halfway and flipped it back over. Nice thinking on their part. Whiskey was probably on the dinner menu that night for sure.


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## matt man

Quite a while ago, my friend that bought an 18’ Shoshone, told me that he was going to write the word “ Fuck” on the bottom of the boat, because “ if this boat is upside down, FUCK!”

With a snout, J, or S, I can only imagine!!!


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## MotorMan27

I once had the opportunity to assist a Tag-a-long group i was supposed to run the big drops with, right an 'A' rig that had gotten slapped around by a rogue wave in the North Sea at 78k. 3 boats worth of their crew & passengers, my swamper and me, plus a motor rig in the river pulling the other direction.... only took us about 3 hours after removing the weight we could get to. .... then we got to run the big drops alone late in the afternoon while they regrouped.


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## noahfecks

cupido76 said:


> Have you ever popped a tube and had to repair on river? I'll bet that material is very thick a tough to work with.


Just like throwing a patch on anything else while on the river, the size of the boat doesn't change the technique. I have gotten away with putting patch material over a hole the size of a dime and holding it in place with a cam strap, then re-inflating the tube. held air for a week without a top off.




cupido76 said:


> Is there a way to lift/tilt the prop out of the water when you think you're getting shallow or are they fixed mount?


Commercially we always had fixed transoms, the technique was to grab the motor and pivot it out of danger when necessary. You always have a spare and you learn how to rebuild a lower unit.





cupido76 said:


> Have you ever flipped one? I imagine they would be a nightmare to try to right.


We would practice it in the yard but never had to do it on the water. They are pretty stable boats, especially when outfitted with the dick tubes. I have seen pictures of Georgia White trips with flipped G rigs, talk about a mess


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## cupido76

Love this thread... I definitely can't afford it but I'd love to have one.


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## MotorMan27

Yardsells do you know anyplace to pick up a dependable mariner 30? I currently have a solid set of Tohatsu 30 4-strokes but I'd like to get a mariner 30 for big water in Cat bc nothing runs under water like a mariner.


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## raymo

Two river guides, diving in the river for the same quarter with their life jackets on, run under the water better than a mariner, during a slow tip season.


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## yardsells

MotorMan27 said:


> Yardsells do you know anyplace to pick up a dependable mariner 30? I currently have a solid set of Tohatsu 30 4-strokes but I'd like to get a mariner 30 for big water in Cat bc nothing runs under water like a mariner.


No. I know a bunch of folks than own them but none getting rid of any.


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## MotorMan27

Hey motor heads I'm in need of advice. I'm supposed to run my rig in deso 3rd week of July. What's the lowest any of you have motored it? To be specific I'm not asking about getting through the first 25, I'm talking about taking a motorrig through the whole canyon.


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## raymo

I don't know how big a rig your pushing, if it's an S-rig leave the out-riggers home or a J-rig will be good. I've always had a Jack-Ass to attach the motor to, so I could always raise and low the motor as needed. That time of year it can get slow and low, for sure your going to hang up in the mud off and on. Keep you life jacket on and your bow line within arm's reach when you jump in to the river to slide your boat off, because when you jump into the mud you will sink up to your knees slowly and when you push your raft off it will float away leaving you stuck in the 4 way mud with your 2 way ankles like quick sand, but if you have your bow line within easy reach you won't lose your boat while your trying to free yourself. With your life jack on, you can lean back into the water after freeing one leg and than free the next leg to float out of the mud hell to get back into your boat. That doesn't always happen but if it does you will be ready. Nothing worse than being stuck in the mud watching your raft floating away without you and having to swim a couple hundred yards with no life jacket on to catch your raft, while you were running sweep. Other than those tips you should be fine. Have a nice trip.


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## yardsells

lowest ive run the snout is 10k.
lowest ive run 16' little boat with 5hp is 6500. Constantly on tilt or jackass. Setup early, get into tongue, pull motor.

What raymo say too. especially with big rig.


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## zbaird

When I was young a buddy and I took a snout in at 2k. We ended up switching off rowing the snout for 90% of it as we were worried about the motor. It was a brand new Honda 20 that his dad had just bought and sent us off with. We didn't have a jackass that allowed shallow enough drive; not sure there was one, LOL. It would have to allow the motor to push the raft with the prop half out. Wasn't my most fun rowing experience as I was all of a buck forty in those days. Lots of dragging and pissing and moaning. Youth has its advantages. I've got to imagine I would want at least 4 if not 5k to be talked into motoring it again.


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## wack

While this doesn't apply to snouts/S-rigs, for future reference of people searching, I've run Desolation Canyon in a heavily loaded 16' Boat at +-/1800 CFS. Day 1 was spent managing sandbars with a heavily loaded 14' Cat strapped to my bow and crushing beers... only other tight spots were near dripping springs and taking the wrong channel near range creek. YMMV


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## raymo

*Low water Desolation/Grey.*



wack said:


> While this doesn't apply to snouts/S-rigs, for future reference of people searching, I've run Desolation Canyon in a heavily loaded 16' Boat at +-/1800 CFS. Day 1 was spent managing sandbars with a heavily loaded 14' Cat strapped to my bow and crushing beers... only other tight spots were near dripping springs and taking the wrong channel near range creek. YMMV


Low water Deso is very doable, I agree. It's still a very beautiful canyon at any water level you float it at. Alot more bumping and grinding for sure, in different stretches of the river during lower water. We figured he was speaking of running a J-rig or large pontoon raft because he posted on this particular posting. We ran the large rigs because that's just the way we rowed, a large cargo boat carrying all the cook boxes, grill boxes, water jugs, coolers and passengers bags, while the passengers played in the paddle boats. Low water running and navigating the river was just our job, no matter the size of the boat, that we were expected to perform, not to mention the fantastic pay! At Sand Wash we use to fill up our water jugs there all the time, the glowing hands and feet at night, we just chalked it up to, too many beers and left handed cigarettes, before the sigh was up, water not suitable for drinking. Besides, what possibly could go wrong.


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## MotorMan27

I posted this on the general boating form but I haven't heard any replies I want to hear. Lol

According to what I'm reading power boats are allowed on the main salmon. They even have pictures that could easily mistaken for a bunch of green river residents on a memorial day friendship cruise. Have any of you taken a motor rig on the main salmon? Btw there's a good video of a s-rig running the slide on the salmon someplace below Riggins


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## pwolfehagen

Yardsells and I have wondered the same thing. The impression I get is they assume you are bringing a jet boat. But a motor is a motor yes? Anyone friendly with a Ranger up there?


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## MotorMan27

pwolfehagen said:


> Yardsells and I have wondered the same thing. The impression I get is they assume you are bringing a jet boat. But a motor is a motor yes? Anyone friendly with a Ranger up there?


Maybe the key is you have to apply for/request a powerboat permit? If you apply/request for a river permit then they are going to apply the 10 hp kicker rule to you?


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## BGillespie

I've had discussions with the Main Salmon Ranger's office, and motor rigs are sort of allowed, but limited to <10 hp (IIRC, could be 15 hp), as the spirit of the rules are drafted with oar powered rigs and a motor for pushing the flats. You can also run under a jet boat permit as well. Basically, motorized rafts are a grey area between oar rigs and jets boats for the Main and Hells Canyon.

Also, the S rig that ran was illegal, according to the Ranger's office.


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