# Lost nerve in paddling



## David Miller

I've had both hips replaced and from my point of view you need to get that knee replaced so that you can get back in the game. Good luck to you.


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## UserName

Boating is about... having fun - among other things. Boat at a level that is comfortable and fun for you. These levels change for a variety of reasons. When the time comes to step it up further you will know.


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## MT4Runner

Sounds bad enough that it might be affecting other area of your life. Get your knee fixed!

And if III is sufficient challenge for you this season, by all means, boat class III!! Winter is long (and good surgery recovery time)..bank some memories this season to get you through it!


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## David Miller

God bless you. I've been where you are. The longer you wait the longer it will take to rehabilitate. Bite the bullet find a good surgeon and do it. I have friends who are skiing now who have had their knees fixed. My hips are great.


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## Kendrick

brenda said:


> I am not sure if these feelings are because I am afraid to swim (and bash my knee - not much of a patella left) or just make a total ass of myself.


Sadly, I feel you. After my swim down lower clear creek (mainly due to making a total ass of myself), I banged up my lower half pretty bad; knees, shins, thighs, tailbone, you name it. No where near the level of knee-hurt you had, but still. Couldn't quite walk right for a few days. 

I hit up Black Rock and Bailey after a couple of weeks break, but it was stressful as hell for me and I still made an ass of myself more or less, on both trips. No one was hurt, no equipment lost; I didn't swim, but still. Didn't come away thinking 'that was awesome/fun/let's do it again' like I normally would, but more or less 'glad that's over/we made it/no one was hurt/why did I have my worst lines ever?'. 

I'm dialing it back a bit now and plan to have at least knee and shin pads before I paddle through blast-rock-hell again. I'm not one to swim normally anyway, but still. Also need to be SWR certified before I'm at least partially-responsible for anybody on Class IV+ again.


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## yourrealdad

First, if you are afraid of making an ass of yourself then A) Don't swim, B) get with a different crew that doesn't make you feel like an ass, C) Quit worrying about you ego like you are 16 yrs old.

Second, If going above class III makes you nervous about swimming it should, thats how you get hurt. The solution is A) again. You shouldn't be going above III if you plan on swimming anyways.

Third, Get you knee fixed. I have had both done and need to go back for more, who cares if you don't have a patella left if you are replacing anyways, Do it now while you have met deductible.

Fourth, Your fears are irrational. All fear is irrational. Do you fear driving your car? Or walking down a sidewalk? Far more likely to get hurt doing those. Once again injuries will be less likely if you refer to A)

If you truly love boating do whatever you can to get out there. This is coming from a guy who is typing one handed because I have literally lost my nerve to kayak (in my hand) and wants nothing more to be able to be on the river.


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## caspermike

Kevin, put your weiner down and you would have two hands....


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## D-Sieve

caspermike said:


> Kevin, put your weiner down and you would have two hands....


HAHAHA!

I have fun in class 3.


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## hojo

To the OP. If feels like you are making the classic mistake of relating your injury experiences to the likelihood of getting injured. The "fear" should be that every time you swim or go kayaking, you could get injured. That fact remains for all of us despite any past injuries. Many people never return to a sport like kayaking after the first injury. The realization that they are susceptible to injury comes crashing home. As far as making an ass of yourself, that's all in YOUR head. If that's something you're worried about then you're not focusing on your skills, you're focusing on what other's think of you. That's your own stigma.

You identified the things you need to do. Get in shape, work on your fundamentals, and paddle what's in your range of comfort for now. Many never get beyond class III so while it might suck for you, so be it. May it be a motivator to get in shape! As far as your knee goes, I have no idea what you need to do. I do know knee injuries suck and I hope you get it fixed so you can get back into the game!


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## caspermike

Don't write checks your ass can't handle paying. Meaning if you don't have the skill don't pay the bills


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## KSC

One practical suggestion: you might consider wearing some sort of knee pad/armor. I've seen people wear some motocross-type gear below the waist when creekboating to protect themselves in case of a swim. That might help psychologically and physically.

I'd take medical suggestions over the internet with a grain of salt. I know enough to know that there are significant limitations and frequent complications involved in knee replacement, so work carefully with your health care professionals and align that with your own expectations and goals before deciding what to do. Once they cut your knee out of your leg, there's definitely no going back.

Good luck.


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## yourrealdad

caspermike said:


> Kevin, put your weiner down and you would have two hands....


It needs 3 hands all the time Mike


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## caspermike

I figured it looked like the extra normal
Body creature from total recall the original and had its own hands...

If you are wearing Motocross gear you need to start from the beginning again! False security are not safe


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## rboater7

I'm with KSC on this. I wouldn't rush into surgery without being really sure that you can't do all right without it. I'd be working with a good physical therapist and give it some time to see if it's getting better or not before making the call. Besides, the longer you wait, the better they get at these procedures. Good luck!


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## d.e.

Paddling with a knee injury can be tough. The natural sitting position in a kayak puts a fair amount of strain on the inside of the knee. When you're rolling or playing the torque can tweek your knee pretty good. I've had issues the last couple of years since having a meniscus clean -up which turned into osteoarthitis. The Doc told me I had to have a major surgery or else I 'd have to have a full knee replacement within three years. I got a second opinion and that Doc recommended a partial knee replacement. I've managed to strengthen it and wear a soft brace when I do outdoor stuff like skiing, biking and boating. It fits in a kayak fine and gives me a little more confidence. It feels pretty good at this point, but I also realize that I have to approach things a little differently nowadays so as not to really jack it up. It comes with the territory. You play hard, you get hurt. You don't get hurt, you're not playing hard enough. ;-)


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## brenda

Thanks KSC. I plan on waiting as long as I can before getting surgery. Cartilage does re-grow VERY SLOWLY. I am seeing another specialist in August and will make my decision then. In the meantime I am biking and doing everything physio tells me. As far as phantom fears...I did paddle yesterday and chose the river according. Big water...no swims. I think it takes losing something to really appreciate the little things.


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## Kendrick

> If you are wearing Motocross gear you need to start from the beginning again! False security are not safe.


To each their own. I found I never needed full-face or elbow pads, but when it came to actually swimming, it could have helped keep my my legs and stuff a bit more functional if I had more leg protection. I never seem to hit my elbows or face on anything, regardless of where I'm upside down though. Swims through blast-rock hell are so rare for me that I'm not really as methodical and skilled at it as I could be; so I do kind of need the protective gear to compensate (not just because I don't swim, but admittedly, because I don't get nearly enough miles on Clear Creek or anywhere). If I do need to jump in their and swim, or happen to be the guy swimming when he shouldn't be (which I never plan to be again, ever), I don't want to have to worry about protecting my knees shins, when they're busy protecting the rest of me. I don't want to worry about my knees and shins when I'm kicking either. 

Chances are, I won't have a swim like that again once I get the knee/shin guards, but I'd like to keep myself as competent as possible, when the time comes. Kind of like how all you really only need is a dry-top in cold water, provided you don't swim or have to get in the water and rescue a pinned boater.


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## caspermike

If you are worried about swimming you need to run easier whitewater simple as that... None of the gear we wear is any good if we can't stick a line. I'm telling you if you showed up wearing all that I get the idea!


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## Kendrick

Helmets are only for people that flip, mirite?


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## ApericotBlossom

My knees are fine but I've dealt with hesitation from shoulder injuries. I took it slow, got my confidence back by paddling with a good crew, and taking it slow. It took a LOT of patience for my limitations. (A good crew is one that has each other's back, doesn't get pissed and frustrated when anyone swims, considers the safety of everyone, but also one that doesn't let you punk out on things you KNOW you are capable but are unreasonably afraid.) I think the easier you are on yourself now the better off you will be in the long run. It took about a year for me to trust my shoulder and myself.
My suggestion is to keep in mind that paddling is a personal journey, and it's supposed to be about HAVING FUN. I agree with what was said about not worrying about your ego. Maybe you were class 5 at one point but accepting current limitations is part of the game. Also protecting your knee with padding probably couldn't hurt to try and see if it does anything for your head. If you're bummin about and looking for a good read check out A Rock Warrior's Way by Arno Illgner. It's geared towards climbing but the mental training it outlines is applicable to all walks of life. Dealing with fear is something I think we all go through, and yes, I agree that it is irrational. A healthy amount of fear is necessary to not recklessly go balls to the wall, but don't make decisions based on fear, make them based on facts, and accept where you are in your paddling journey. Confidence is not cockiness. And don't forget to have fun and don't worry about what everyone else thinks of you. High school is over (and it shouldn't have mattered then either )


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## Taters

*Knees and whitewater*

There is substantial risk after getting a full knee replacement and going in the river. I have had both knees replaced quite successfully (the technology and technique are improving almost daily). However, one of the biggest risks is banging an artificial knee on a hard surface (like a river rock). I went tubing down the Boise with my wife and her friend and was scared to death because of the rocks. I've been whitewater rafting and kayaking (inflatable) and for some reason hadn't considered the rock threat. I am now and am looking for knee pads that wouldn't be too bulky while protecting the knee(s). Ask your orthopedic surgeon to advise you. If you need a new knee by all means get one. I'm 1 1/2 years out and loving mine -- 67 yo, golf, hiking, whitewater -- living the dream.


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## dirtbagkayaker

UserName said:


> Boating is about... having fun - among other things. Boat at a level that is comfortable and fun for you. These levels change for a variety of reasons. When the time comes to step it up further you will know.


Best answer ever! wise advice


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## larryqp

Brenda, Sounds like as some have said, you have forgotten, why you paddle. You should be paddling because its fun, because it gets you outside in a beautiful place, because you enjoy the company of like minded people. Its not about river ratings and numbers. I have been paddling an open boat since the early 80s. In my prime I paddled solid class 4, due to some life choices, my opportunities to paddle decreased and I took quite a few years off, I started paddling again 3 years ago and completely enjoy class II and easy III, my goal now is to get the most out of every river mile, catch every eddy, surf every wave and arrive at the takeout, thirsty for a beer. Thats a fun day for me now, I don't need to be scared and worried about hurting myself. Discover the fun leave the fear and ego on shore.
Good luck


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## gannon_w

A few have said it but if you are worried about making an ass of yourself then you are paddling with either a bad mentality or crew.


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## hilbiliarkiboi

brenda said:


> Thanks KSC. As far as phantom fears...I did paddle yesterday and chose the river *according*. Big water...no swims. I think it takes *losing something* to really appreciate the little things.



which river is that? never been there.

did they tell you to lose some weight? I'm 280, and having a hard time just getting in a boat because I'm afraid I won't be able to get out.


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## brenda

hilbiliarkiboi said:


> which river is that? never been there.
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> It is the Adams River in BC, Canada. Most of it is pretty easy but it has a 3+/4 canyon section that has big waves coming from all angles. Basically the whole river compresses to about 16 feet across. It is really safe - nothing to hit and if you swim you will just flush out the bottom. Definitely an adrenalin rush.


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## hilbiliarkiboi

*big water*

Sounds like fun! Prep for grand canyon.


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