# Lochsa River Whitewater Video!



## montana_wild (May 27, 2011)

Hey guys. This trip was my first whitewater trip and it was amazing. Looking at the river from the road and knowing I was about to raft that was a crazy feeling and jumping straight into Class IV and V rapids as a first timer was awesome! Anyways my brother and I took along a couple GoPro's and got some pretty sweet footage. Anyways just thought some of you guys would like to check it out. The river was running at 10+ feet that day and was pushing 20000cfs.

YouTube - ‪Lochsa Whitewater 2011‬‏


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## montana_wild (May 27, 2011)

Be sure to watch it in HD.


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## BarryDingle (Mar 13, 2008)

Was that the guide cussing the swimmer out? Or the paddlers?


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## glenn (May 13, 2009)

BarryDingle said:


> Was that the guide cussing the swimmer out? Or the paddlers?


I don't know, either way it's pathetic. He's making no effort to get closer to the swimmer and actually make a rescue even though the channel is wide open. If this is a training group though I get it.


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## montana_wild (May 27, 2011)

Ya the guide was yelling at the paddlers. One paddler is supposed to help the swimmer while the rest keep the boat in control and in the right part of the river because often the rapids lead straight into another. It's a bunch of bartenders and restaurant employees on the float so he knew he could get fired up with them and it's serious that they can get that person back into the boat when the river is running like that.


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## OleMissBoater (May 22, 2007)

Sweet left line in lochsa falls... Please tell me you didn't tip that guide!!


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## idaho_h2o (May 5, 2005)

Class V rapids?

As far as the left line at the falls, no commercials are going to run the main line at 10+ ft.

As to the guide yellling, not sure cussing was appropriate, but the swimmer was just floating and the paddlers weren't doing much to assist and the guide is pretty helpless in a paddle boat in that situation. Having swimmers at that level can get serious real fast. Even as a paying guest you are expected to get on your belly and swim as fast as you can. If you can't handle that you shouldn't be on the river at that flow. Sometimes people need a shock to get them going in that kind of situation.


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## tripple (Nov 4, 2010)

For all those panty lace and doily boaters out there that can't handle a F-bomb, get out of my boat! Commercial guiding can be a female canine when the Microsoft bus shows up with a bunch of DNFers on the local IV expecting a sunny spring booze cruise. When it comes down to it I'm gonna let you know how hard I want you to paddle or where you stand in the nature of things Staying up right or spending all my non existent tip money on paddler/swimmer/boat flip beer fouls that the brothers (and sisters) help clean up is and easy decision. Plus, it doesn't help when they tip you more after their "death defying" swim and their buddies stiff you for staying in the boat. Not a trash for cash kind of guy but you show up with a perm, eye liner, or gopro and it's game on!


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## krashhadley (Mar 13, 2008)

I hear you tripple, you have to do what you have to do. As a former giude, I would do the same in that situation. Even on a private trip. Sometimes you have to light a little fire under your crew's ass.


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## krashhadley (Mar 13, 2008)

glenn, have you ever been a pro guide? ever have a situation that seemed harmless get out of control real fast. if you had you'd appreciate the guide's tone a bit more. It may seem like he's just being rude, but that water is really cold and that swimmer is losing energy fast, it is important to get to him ASAP. That is why he yelled at his crew, if he cussed it was only to emphasize the urgency of NOW!!! Looks like a fun run though.


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## carvedog (May 11, 2005)

tripple said:


> For all those panty lace and doily boaters out there that can't handle a F-bomb, get out of my boat!





krashhadley said:


> glenn, have you ever been a pro guide? ever have a situation that seemed harmless get out of control real fast. if you had you'd appreciate the guide's tone a bit more.



It's all in the training. If you can't keep your crew under control, when something goes awry the fault lies with the guide not the custys. 

When you start to lose it, so do they. As far Glenn not being able to comment because he has or hasn't guided - he has every right. While I am not sure I would call it pathetic, it doesn't really help the situation. Tone and projection trump panic and swearing every time. 

15 years of full time here including three years of running guide training for our company - can I comment?

To the OP - great little vid, with some fun editing. No class 5 on the day run of the Lochsa though.


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## krashhadley (Mar 13, 2008)

Touche' carvedogg. I understand your point and honestly I agree. However I don't think that the guide had completely paniced or anything. He was just trying to get his crew to paddle, and obviously he felt that in that situation he needed to get vocal. If you guided for 15 years and never dropped any bombs while trying to motivate a paddle crew then you are truly a saint. I was not trying to say that it is ok to cuss, or that a guide should in a tough situation. All I was saying is that, having been a guide, I can understand how a paddle crew not doing anything can make a situation bad real fast. I had a crew that stopped paddling on the 1st wave in Skull rapid on Westwater. No oars, just paddle boat. If they had kept going we would have had a great line through, but we got bumped right and then slammed against the right cliff. I got bounced out and swam the rest of skull in a sieve. I remember thinking "why isn't my PFD working." After a scary 3-4 seconds held under water the current let me go as I passed the room of doom. At higher water I may not have ever come up. Just because they stopped paddling, believe me, when I got back in that boat, I gave them a piece of my mind. It was a private trip, so I had a bit more freedom on my word choice, but the point I made would not have changed if it were commercial.


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## carvedog (May 11, 2005)

krashhadley said:


> Touche' carvedogg. I understand your point and honestly I agree.


Thanks mang. When I go back and read these posts they usually sound more confrontational than what I intended, which was a gentle chiding. 



krashhadley said:


> If you guided for 15 years and never dropped any bombs while trying to motivate a paddle crew then you are truly a saint. I was not trying to say that it is ok to cuss, or that a guide should in a tough situation. All I was saying is that, having been a guide, I can understand how a paddle crew not doing anything can make a situation bad real fast.


Agreed as well. Never had anything really bad, but in those swimming, near flip, near wrap, lost oars, running backwards, getting surfed, frothy white hole up to my neck ( in an oar boat and we weren't moving) - but in those situations that I didn't do the most I could to prepare the custys or my friends is when things started to go awry. At one point during high water I had an assigned ( biggest guy) on each side of the boat who would practice swimmer retrievals. And we practiced how when he quite paddlng how it would go and if there wasn't some compensation in paddle strokes we could get turned awry. When someone did swim it was super easy. I didn't do this in the middle of summer. The practice part anyway, but present the concept. 

Peace and safe high water to all.


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## Ryanrugger (Jun 7, 2005)

Rafters are special.


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## glenn (May 13, 2009)

krashhadley said:


> glenn, have you ever been a pro guide? ever have a situation that seemed harmless get out of control real fast. if you had you'd appreciate the guide's tone a bit more. It may seem like he's just being rude, but that water is really cold and that swimmer is losing energy fast, it is important to get to him ASAP. That is why he yelled at his crew, if he cussed it was only to emphasize the urgency of NOW!!! Looks like a fun run though.


I've done a little pro-guiding and been in enough of sketchy spots in and out of commercial trips. My comments are based on the fact that prior to the guide ripping his crew a new one, he is standing gawking, not calling strokes to pro-actively make a rescue, not paddling himself to make a pro-active rescue. Shit gets out of control when you sit around and watch stuff happen, and that's what I saw everyone in the boat doing including the guide. I expect guides to yell at custies to get them moving. I don't expect them to reem custies when they haven't been doing anything themselves and the boat is drifting along not positioned for a strong rescue of the swimmer. The boat wasn't making any strong moves around features in the wide open channel, and there was no reason not to call 1 or 2 strokes to quickly close the gap and make a rescue rather than wait for one to happen. When I was guiding we were reminding every single day to be pro-active and all I saw from the guide in question was reaction. 

Flame away.


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## krashhadley (Mar 13, 2008)

Cool glenn, but you only saw a small segment of what that guide was doing, 1-2 seconds, maybe he called commands and his crew was just laughing at their buddy in the water. We weren't there so it really isn't fair to judge him. I guess that is the point I've been trying to make. And despite anyone's opinion of professionalism, we are all human, we make mistakes. To call his reaction to a hairy situation "pathetic" when not being a witness is like claiming perfection on your part. Is that really the case? During your time as a guide I'm sure that you ran across some dicy stuff and maybe you didn't handle the situation perfectly, but you learned from it and adjusted your behavior for the next time.


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## krashhadley (Mar 13, 2008)

Sorry the thread look this line, the video was sick, and I wish I was there. Everybody be safe out there, it's going to be an awesome year.


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## montana_wild (May 27, 2011)

^ya it's funny the direction this thread took. I just wanted to get some people stoked to get on the water.


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## glenn (May 13, 2009)

Sorry for the shit show MW. Lochsa looks fun right now. Big friendly waves. Gotta get out there sometime. Job interview today means I might actually have money to make it happen before the water totally disappears.


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## carvedog (May 11, 2005)

krashhadley said:


> Sorry the thread look this line, the video was sick, and I wish I was there. Everybody be safe out there, it's going to be an awesome year.


It's ok the thread took this direction. If it helps one person to be better prepared to retrieve a swimmer at high flow in the shit, then all is good.

Practice assigning a 'retriever' on each side of the boat. Practice paddling when someone besides the front paddler is the 'lead' paddler and setting the stroke. My crews were seemed really good about doing this and highsiding and all the other little things that if they have done it once they have an idea of where and what needs to be done. 
Stay prepared. 

Still an awesome video of a great day on the Lochsa.


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## mcoper8901 (Mar 28, 2011)

Ryanrugger said:


> Rafters are special.


they truly are haha


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## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

Lochsa at these levels are not big friendly waves, and you really better have Class V rescue skills. I didn't see a single commercial company out there two Sundays ago when it was 8.5', there is ample opportunity for an inexperienced swimmer to flush drown even on that lower section if it happens in the wrong spot. However, as your group did, you can skirt most of the meat making it much less brutal, but if you swim you don't have a choice which line you swim. Be careful out there, don't be stupid.


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## Rich (Sep 14, 2006)

krashhadley said:


> Touche' carvedogg. I understand your point and honestly I agree. However I don't think that the guide had completely paniced or anything. He was just trying to get his crew to paddle, and obviously he felt that in that situation he needed to get vocal. *If you guided for 15 years and never dropped any bombs while trying to motivate a paddle crew then you are truly a saint.*


 
Carvedog, are you going to take that shit from krashhadly???

He called you a SAINT!, on MountainBuzz!
Holy shit man, you have a reputation to maintain,
you can't have somebody callin you a frickin SAINT!!!

(I missed Memorial Day on the Lochsa too)


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## carvedog (May 11, 2005)

Not a saint, and pretty sure I let a couple fly over the years. I don't really scream at my paddle crews or swear that way. Going sideways over the earthquake rock in Jack Creek I said 'we are f***ed'.

More usually it was something more like, "shit, shit, shit, paddle harder, shit, shit, shit, just made it.... and forward 2 ....and rest."

Not a saint, just a river dog.


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## montana_wild (May 27, 2011)

I hope you'd drop some bombs on the river. You gotta let em know you mean business.


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## mcoper8901 (Mar 28, 2011)

montana_wild said:


> I hope you'd drop some bombs on the river. You gotta let em know you mean business.


you gotta use a few racial slurs once in a while to get the punters to spring into action.


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## krashhadley (Mar 13, 2008)

Yeah, nothin like a bit of bigotry to really let em know who's boss. A guide's gotta do what a guide's gotta do. lol.


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## montana_wild (May 27, 2011)

Nothing like a good "GET BACK IN THE KITCHEN!!!" to get her rowing haha


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