# What goes in a pin kit?



## xkayaker13

2 pieces of webbing (6ft, 10ft)
2 4mm prussics
2 pullys
minimum of 3 *******
(ascendors and belay device if you're in a gorge)

more importantly you need to know how to use what is in there. you should take a swift water rescue class if you're not quite sure how to use this gear in rescue scenarios.


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## El Flaco

Also, a pin kit is practically useless without Spectra (high strength) rope. 

And I agree with xkayaker13. The Upper Taos Box is deceptively dangerous; with sieves and high pin potential, and you have long stretches where the Box has no easy emergency exit. If you're considering getting in there, I would highly recommend that you have a high degree of comfort using these tools via a swiftwater course.


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## lhowemt

I have 250 ft of static rope (1/2), 2 pulleys, 4 prussik's (6mm), 3 or 4 biners, 4 loops of webbing, and the little picture sheet since I'll probably not remember when I have to do one, how to do one (I didn't this spring, and I took a rescue class in September - duh!). I also carry a micro-pulley, 4 mm prussik, biner, and loop webbing in my pfd. Hubby carries the same, between us we have a mini-pin kit with the spectra rope in my waist throw bag.


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## sbratt

I would add a small headlamp to that. It's nice to have when you're pushing dusk on afterwork runs and shit hits the fan.


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## lhowemt

sbratt said:


> I would add a small headlamp to that. It's nice to have when you're pushing dusk on afterwork runs and shit hits the fan.


That's a sweet idea, I carry a flashlight always in my toolbox, but a headlamp is so much more useful.


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## dgosn

add an extra knife. Some thing that will cut webbing under tension. I have had the cut a main prussick once pulling a bucket boat off a rock, there was no way to release the system with out destroying the raft, instead I just dissembled everything except the main pulley and prusick, uncoiled the rope, cut the prusick and let the rope through the system. Not ideal, but its crazy what crashing water will do to a even a small kayak.

If you are in a kayak, I would get extra prussicks instead of assenders, add a 20ft section of 1/2 webbing aka super tape. often 6 and 10 foot sections of webbing are not enough to tie off rocks, last time I unpinned a boat all we had to tie off was a boulder size of a van. 

a unpin kit is useless unless you know how to use it. I have seen people with them that dont even know how to use them, make a possible rope hazard in the river. Practise a basic Z-drag, learn to tie a water knot, bowlin, figure 8, clove hitch, in the dark. If you can master those 3 knots, and 1 hitch, and the z drag you will be able to make 7:1, releasable systems, etc...

I recommend "Self Rescue" its a falcon guide, it is specifically for climbers, mostly aid climbers, but the information is invaluable. Covers everything from pulley systems to multi rope carriage systems. Or go find a aid climber friend, buy him a King Cobra and have him show ya some tricks, you can tell who's a climber when the unpin kit comes out....


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## [email protected]

I think that the sheet is a good idea but maybe you should practice a bit more, if you buddy is in trouble you don't want to have to look up how to set up a z-drag.
Also the 250 ft is for a raft right? for a kayak 75 feet should be enough.
I would also put the head light in a first aid kit along with other supplies.
-Tom


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## El Flaco

dgosn said:


> buy him a King Cobra and have him show ya some tricks


out of context, this is horrifying. :shock:


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## lhowemt

[email protected] said:


> I think that the sheet is a good idea but maybe you should practice a bit more, if you buddy is in trouble you don't want to have to look up how to set up a z-drag.
> Also the 250 ft is for a raft right? for a kayak 75 feet should be enough.
> I would also put the head light in a first aid kit along with other supplies.
> -Tom


Um, that's exactly what we were doing. 6 months off and my brain wasn't working. Spring freshener, yard practice! Plus, crisis's and adrenaline do weird things to people's body and mind. I'd rather be able to glance at the sheet, and start setting up right away. One less thing to have to figure out, there's enough going on in a rescue to waste brain function on that. One mis-try and the stress and adrenaline would go way up. Lastly, you don't know who might be using it, and they may need it. Be prepared, practice, and don't be afraid to use your tools, including a cheat sheet.

Yup, 250 ft is for a loaded raft. My waist belt might do a day-trip raft, or definitely a cat. But not if it is a far pull due to pin location, anchor point, etc.


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## D. Hippie

Thanks for the info. Much appreciated.


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## David Spiegel

I would advise that you take a swift water rescue course. Take on from Nick Wigston. He is the man and so are the rest of his instructors. He teaches a really practical course and you will come away feeling comfortable with your skills and equipment. If you need a chart in your kit to figure out what to do you should take a course from him.


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## RealitySheriff

xkayaker13 said:


> 2 pieces of webbing (6ft, 10ft)
> 2 4mm prussics
> 2 pullys
> minimum of 3 *******
> (ascendors and belay device if you're in a gorge)
> 
> more importantly you need to know how to use what is in there. you should take a swift water rescue class if you're not quite sure how to use this gear in rescue scenarios.


I couldn't agree more. If you're out there fumbling around with gear you don't know how to use properly you're buddy is either dead by the time you figure it out or you are just gonna be in the way.


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## UserName

Basics; Rope, Pulleys, Webbing, Prussics, ******* (Locking Only!!!), A Good Knife

Other things that are nice to have; Figure 8, Pliers, leather gloves, Hershey bars. 

Practice until you really don't have to think about how to set up your systems. Then practice a few weeks later. 3:1 is standard, 4:1 is very useful. Set up several different ones, this will teach some principles. understanding the principles will go a lot further than just memorizing how to set up a Z-Drag. 

Look at your system and identify the weakest link. Where would it be most likely to fail? How much load can that link handle? Having thought about this a bit ahead of time may help prevent unwanted consequences at show time. You may prepare for specific situations, but they may not be the ones you're presented with.

When that is all down, spend some time with load sharing / self-equalizing anchor systems. {How much load can a d-ring handle...}


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## benpetri

Also upgrade to a rescue vest if you haven't already.


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## lhowemt

benpetri said:


> Also upgrade to a rescue vest if you haven't already.


It is recommended to only do so once you've had formal training, which takes us back to the Swiftwater Rescue Tech training. Highly recommended, it's good to learn how little you know (before and after), and how much practice you need. It's better to eat your humble pie in training and practice, than when you are trying to save someone or yourself. Live bait is dangerous, even if you have had training and lots of skills/practice.


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## SilverBullet

*Random Stuff*



> I would advise that you take a swift water rescue course. Take one from Nick Wigston. He is the man and so are the rest of his instructors. He teaches a really practical course and you will come away feeling comfortable with your skills and equipment. If you need a chart in your kit to figure out what to do you should take a course from him.


I agree completely. 

These guys(Kayak Instruction, Swiftwater Rescue, Colorado - Downstream Edge) are doing basic and advanced River Rescue classes at PaddleFest in Buena Vista. John Grace (LVM) is doing and overnight prep. class that may touch on rescue too. I think living in the depths of Gorilla on a cable cam has gotten him pretty dialed in.

You can actually get a pin kit from CKS:
NRS Kayak Pin Kit

and take the class in BV on Memorial Day Weekend:
CKS PaddleFest 09′ » Educational Courses

*Ska beer in 12oz. cans* to revive you and *live music* afterwords.


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## iliketohike

I would recomend everyone using prusiks upgrade to the petzl tibloc instead. The tibloc is a light weight piece of metal which is a mechanical prusik that weighs nothing and is much much easier to implement in a rescue situation. Prusiks, although cheap, light and effective are somewhat difficult to set up, as you have to rap them around the rope you are pulling on. The tibloc just slips over the rope and you clip a biner to it and wall ahhh you have a mechanical prusik. 

The system I am experimenting with is 2-3 tibloks with a reverso, or ATC guide set up to autolock the follower as the first point of contact. This system automatically holds itself, so if you let go of the rope you don't loose your progress, especially when reseting the prusiks for another pull. It can be loosened, and I think, will be what everyone uses once the river community catches up to fairly recent advances in climbing equipment. It is also just as fast, if not faster to set up. 

We like to think all of this will work, but I garuntee if you have to look at a card to set this up while your friend is pinned and drowning, he will drown. Practice this system. 

further, a solid anchor is the corner stone of this system and if you can't find and build a natural anchor in little or no time, or if you pick a bad anchor you just made the situation much much worse.

1 more thing. Corey Volt pointed out a very good thing; if you don't keep you pin kit on you, in your vest, it will be virtually useless to you. Mine goes in my rescue vest so if I need it its there, and it fits just fine


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## dgosn

Tiblocs are a great tool, but they are harsh on a rope. I have personally destroyed a sheath(static rope) using a tibloc, have also seen a 20ft+ free fall onto a tibloc with little consequence(dynamic rope). Once you wreck a sheath it bunches up. I wouldn't use a Tibloc for unpinning a large raft. They would work great for a kayak or smaller load. 

Reversos are a great aoutolock device, but you loose a lot of mechanical advantage due to friction and its small radius. Most kayakers I know use spectra or similar smaller diameter rope. If using a smaller diameter rope ensure you have the smaller reverso used for skinny rope (7-9mm). They are marketed for ice climbing. Also a good ruleof thumb is to have your prusick be 2-3mm smaller in diameter than rope it is attached to, will prevent slipping and possible shealth damage.

One important thing to consider is how many people will be helping you. If you alone are unpinning a boat you are going to need all the mechanical advantage you can get, a Z drag in theory gives a 3:1 mechanical advantage, in reality using sealed bearing large diameter pulleys you will not get much over 2.5:1, a reverso would probably take this closer to 2:1

Another reason I reccomend carrying 1/2 webbing is that you can make a kleimheist, similar to a prusick. Another nice trick is a Garda hitch, it is a self ratcheting hitch that only uses your haul line but you need two identical size/shaped oval biners.

Again pracrtice is the only way to use this stuff, once you start making 5,7,9:1 hauling systems the geometry/angles of you rope in relation to the load and anchors is paramount.

I frequently use hauling systems at work to haul loads up to 400lbs, and with minimal gear can bring up a large load 300ft. in just a few minutes. I have known these systems for years as an aid climber, but it took using them daily at work to really feel proficient at them and to be able to make a system on the fly. Once you learn how all this works you will be able to get creative and tailor a system to your current needs. Having a laminated sheet with all this info invaluable. You should know it by heart, but if you are panicing, hypothermic, exhausted, or have to have someone else with less experience set it up any extra help wont hurt.

Good luck, i find rope systems fun and intriguing, but maybes thats just sick..

Scott


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## [email protected]

I think tiblocks are faster/more effective, if i'm pinned I don't care if my buddy destroys his rope getting me off. I agree that if just trying to rescue gear prusiks might be a better option. 
personally I carry both.


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## Awoody

*Note of Prussiks*

Over the last few months I've been refining, updating my pin kit. This might be more common knowledge than I thought, but one thing I have found was that if you are using a smaller diameter compact rope, as most kayakers do, (hopefully spectra for this application) you need smaller diameter prussik loops. The best guideline I could find is that for maximum grip your prussiks need to be at least 2mm smaller in diameter than your main rope, so as was mentioned a 4mm prussik would probably be your best bet for most of the 1/4" spectra ropes out there. 
Personally I think prussiks are simple enough and easy enough to tie, as well as having many applications/uses that I don't have any tiblocs. There are a variety of different types and configurations of prussiks that seem practical enough in a kayaking environment to make them worth some study.


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## iliketohike

dude was right tiblocks are harsh on rope... if you use them as ascenders for aid climbing. They are not intended to replace an ascender as many climbers try to use them. For the one time emergency use of unpinning someone, I don't care if I need to buy a new throw rope after. Besides, I just make the dude whose life I saved buy it. I can not see a tibloc causing a rope to fail when used in an emergency. 

As far as the reverso, the new reverso 3, and the ATC guide both can be used on ropes down to 7mm according to manufacturer, which in real world mean much smaller, plus, you can add friction to the system by using 2 carabiners with the reverso. Plus they can be released to lower. 

Also, the friction thing is interesting, because when you use the reverso where I stated, friction will not matter as when you activate the z-drag all the load is transfered from the reverso onto the z-drag untill the pull is stopped, at which point the load goes back to the reverso.


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## iliketohike

dgons gives good advice. I'm a kayaker not a gear hauling rafter. But I do carry a skinny line and a normal 1/2 inch rope in by yak. If I were unpinning someone it would probably be with the heavier line, but I think the system will work on the skinny line. I'll have to figure that out. I don't like the skinny stuff cause it burns the hands, but it is nice to have cord in my pfd

Is it 2:1 for one pulley/tibloc.? I was thinking going back and fourth 3 times. First to reverso set up as second, then to tiblock/pulley, to pulley, back to another tiblock pulley, back to pulley, back to reverso pulley -> pullers. I use a similar set up with my slack line and I can pull prettey hard, but it still takes 3 people to get a 50 footer up tight. It has a ton of friction because I just wrap it around a tree, sometime with a towel. I imagine without pulleys just using carabiners, with that much advantage I could pull in excess of 1000lbs myself. 

My reason for asking is I am building this setup now, to replace prusiks for this season. I'd really like to test this stuff out and find out just how much force I can excert with the system. I'm just not convinced 3 prusiks and 4 carabiners is going to pull it off intime.


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## UserName

Don't find much use in more than 3:1 or 4:1. Only time I have used more is pulling trees out of the river. One problem is the more mechanical advantage/the less distance the pull/the more rope you have to pull. ;
ie. 3:1 means you get 3 times the force exerted on the pull, but also have to pull 3 times the rope (3 feet of pull for 1 foot of actual movement.) You get up into 9:1 and you need heaps of gear, Lots of rope/and or resetting your system constantly and maybe losing any gain when you set the break. More simply, you just dont get much bang for the buck. 3:1 & 4:1 are simple and effective. 

As to merits of tiblocs etc... that stuff is cool and all, I say keep it simple, Light & Fast ~~ Prussik knot is pretty damn simple. And i can cut it if I need to.


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## dgosn

UserName said:


> Don't find much use in more than 3:1 or 4:1. Only time I have used more is pulling trees out of the river. One problem is the more mechanical advantage/the less distance the pull/the more rope you have to pull. ;
> ie. 3:1 means you get 3 times the force exerted on the pull, but also have to pull 3 times the rope (3 feet of pull for 1 foot of actual movement.) You get up into 9:1 and you need heaps of gear, Lots of rope/and or resetting your system constantly and maybe losing any gain when you set the break. More simply, you just dont get much bang for the buck. 3:1 & 4:1 are simple and effective.
> 
> As to merits of tiblocs etc... that stuff is cool and all, I say keep it simple, Light & Fast ~~ Prussik knot is pretty damn simple. And i can cut it if I need to.


Agreed, once you complicate things you will definently need another set of hands to 'mind' the system, ie move prusicks, etc.... Mt experience with complicated systems come from vertical hauling, where gravity allows to have a self minding system, little different on a horizontal pull

with that extra set of hands, you could just uses a 3:1 and have 2 people pull. Never quantified it, but with solid footing 2 people can get close to 1000lbs+ of M.A. We unpinned a raft with a 3:1 and several people pulling, got to the point that even though we tied to frame corners(equalized) that another pull would have ripped off the d-rings or lost the floor.

When by myself, or with small group I carry a 3000lb come-a-long. Not very useful for a kayak, weighs about 10lbs, easy to use, and wicked strong, and releasable. Never used it on the river, but I am sure I could unpin my boat, as well as flip it over by myself... Got the idea from snout rigs, they are the people that need ridiculous amount of MA!


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## benpetri

I'm just curious if anyone here knows of a situation where a Z-drag was needed to successfully rescue a swimmer/pinned person? Speed is so important in such situations and Z-drags are generally slow and cumbersome to set up. Usually there is something much simpler, much faster that can and should be deployed to get the swimmer to safety. The Z-drag is usually the last resort. I've only ever used Z-drags for pinned boats (especially rafts), and when its just a gear rescue, there's usually no need to rush and definitely no need to trash my gear.


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## Claytonious

I carry a pin kit with a couple of pulleys, biners, prusiks, and webbing. I know how to set up basic mechanical advantage systems, but I have never actually had to use it. I have always been under the impression that a pin kit would be used to save a boat, not a person. The reason for this is it seems highly unlikely that anybody would have time to actually set up a Z-drag if someone were pinned underwater. I mean you would have to be very close to the person when it happened, get to shore, get out of your boat, get the pin kit out, find a suitable big rock or tree at the correct angle from the boater, set up your z drag. somehow get a rope out to the boat, and then get back to shore to pull. I know it is not impossible, just seems like one in a million. 

I am sure there are special cases where someone is pinned, but their head is above water, where it could work.

Has anybody actually saved a life with a Z-drag? I would like to hear.


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## UserName

Z-Drag would mostly be used for equipment. To use that much force on a person would be, well, damaging. Even to a body recovery. If you need to take the time to set up a Z-drag you may well be looking at a body recovery at that point. I do know of cases where a raft got wrapped with a person in between. No way to set up the system in time to save the person. Entrapments would fall under a whole other topic. As for pin kits, can be applied in a million ways depending on situation, but most use would be for pinned boats.


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