# Cat frame... Who do I use?



## kdub (Mar 11, 2015)

I am looking at purchasing Aire Jag tubes but need a frame to go with it. I have tried to contact Canyon Inflatables but they have not responded. I really like their swiftwater frame. Any ideas on who else to go with? I am located in SW WA.


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## English Bob (Jan 17, 2009)

Try DRL, I just bought a new frame for my Wave Destroyer from Dusty. Super easy to work with and really nice frame at a good price!


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## Sembob (Feb 27, 2014)

There is also Madcatr in Washington. Dave is great to work with. 
There is also Whitewater Machine Works. Guy is great to work with. 


Jim


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## CanyonWhitewaterINF. (Jun 26, 2014)

Hi Kdub 

We are working through emails and phone messages as fast as possible. All of our workforce is in the shop and we don't have a dedicated secretary for answering phones. We receive around 30-50 new boat inquiries daily and try and return calls or emails in the evenings and early mornings. We can probably put that whole package together for you as an OEM manufacturer we have access to all major brands on the market and it usually saves quite a bit over buying frame and inflatable seperate.

We have a huge wait list at this point so it depends on your time frame if we can to take on your project. We are currently doing boat packages for multiple people on mountainbuzz. Dave is a great guy and fabricator but is specialized in smaller playboat frames and often sends customers to us for bigger boats as we
have been sending people to him on the smaller frames during our backlog

Anyone highly qualified in Aluminum and Titanium work , CNC operator or experience operating laser bed cutting equipment we are hiring. We are looking for another full time welder highly experienced in TIG process. 
Canyon


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## duct tape (Aug 25, 2009)

Add my name to those speaking highly of Dave at Madcatr. His loaner frame was great and he's been great to work with while building my new frame. Just a great guy on the phone. 

- Jon


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## SPARELINK (Feb 25, 2015)

kdub said:


> I am looking at purchasing Aire Jag tubes but need a frame to go with it. I have tried to contact Canyon Inflatables but they have not responded. I really like their swiftwater frame. Any ideas on who else to go with? I am located in SW WA.


I would stay clear of Canyon Inflatables. I know of a few people in the last year that have gone there and had lots of issues. mostly taking months longer that estimated and not getting everything that they paid for. He runs a scam of selling you Custom Canyon tubes but then give you Maxxon tubes when delivered.


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## Brotorboat (Apr 14, 2009)

Here we go again...


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## Wavester (Jul 2, 2010)

Check out Recretec, they make nice frames, boxes etc.
Madcatr makes nice day frames if you don't mind waiting a year. Nice choice with the Jag, but you're going to be needing a larger frame, probably a 4-5 bay.


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## slamkal (Apr 8, 2009)

You didnt mention what type of boating you want to do. Primarily gear or play or combo. I have a friend selling a used steel one but I have no details on it. hes selling it with the lion tubes but would probably seperate. Pm me if you are interested.


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## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

SPARELINK said:


> I would stay clear of Canyon Inflatables. I know of a few people in the last year that have gone there and had lots of issues. mostly taking months longer that estimated and not getting everything that they paid for. He runs a scam of selling you Custom Canyon tubes but then give you Maxxon tubes when delivered.


I second this. 

Madcatr makes the bestest frames, but his turnaround time is now into 2016 from what I have heard. Dusty at DRL is a solid guy, I second recommending checking him out. Neil Nikirk out of California is also repping some frames that look interesting, pretty simple but they break down really small which may be a bonus. You can find him on the google by searching for something like nocoolers. He is also on facebook.

Edit- I see that you are talking about a frame for a Jag. I'm talking more playboat frames. If I were you I'd probably just get an NRS frame so it is flexible. Heavy, but flexible. I don't like that they don't have scout bars but I'm guessing with a Jag you want a floor so scout bars are a moot point then.


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## swiftwater15 (Feb 23, 2009)

*Frames*

If you are looking at steel, expedition-type frames, recretec or DRL will hook you up within a 90 minute drive of ridgefield. I have recretec 4-bay with a trailer frame has been bomber.


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## JagDaddy (Apr 11, 2014)

I was new to cats when I put together my Jag. We were running the tight and tech rivers of MT, ID and CO at the time and now we live in the SW doing the Colorado, San Jaun, Yampa and are planning on tbe Salt and Verde ect.

We bought a NRS 72"x120". I've practically worn the the nuts and u-bolts out changing it around so many times. It's been rigged sparse and it been rigged geared and heavy. Rowed front, back and center. 

It's been a good experience IMO. After a few years of turning bolts and sliding bars, switching seats, coolers, drybox's, plywood decks, trampolines and passengers around.

I almost feel like I know what I would want in a welded frame


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## Bobby Ladd (Jan 28, 2014)

Don't forget about Riverboat Works down here in rivertown Salida. Great folks and have had great experience with their frames.


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## kdub (Mar 11, 2015)

Thanks for the information... Got in contact with a few guys. For the record Canyon actually returned my original call yesterday.


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## dgoods (Jul 15, 2013)

You'd think that with how busy Canyon is with new orders and pushing frames out the door as fast as they can make em, it might make just a little sense to hire a person to man the phones... customer service is kinnnda important.


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## SpeyCatr (Aug 14, 2013)

I always thought Orto was their customer service?!?!


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## GilaRobusta (Mar 19, 2015)

*Sorry for Intruding*

Forgive my intrusion. I have been a long time listener, but first time caller on the Buzz. I enjoy the antics and down right frank discussions every morning over coffee. This is the first time I have felt the need to post, since the topic is near and dear to my pocket book, and truthfully I'm very concerned. 

I have had a Canyon boat on order for a year. They cashed my deposit check on March 11 2014. They have been unresponsive to phone calls and e-mails for over three months. No radical changes to plans, no funky requests just a stock well made American boat. I have almost given up hope of ever seeing a boat or my deposit again… Since this and a Oregon Board are the only place I've seen life from CWI I thought I would try.

Please again forgive my intrusion. 

Be smart with your money, some lessons are down right spendy.

J.Mazzone


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## Osseous (Jan 13, 2012)

How much do they require for a deposit?

Sent from my SM-N900V using Mountain Buzz mobile app


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## zcollier (Jan 1, 2004)

Yes, Dave from Madcatr makes the best frames in the business - especially if you're into Class V expedition style trips. The only downsides are that they're probably the most expensive and have long wait times.

Dusty at DRL make beautiful frames that are well designed, more affordable, and available.

Both Dusty and Dave are great guys who are legit boaters.


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## GilaRobusta (Mar 19, 2015)

1500 smackers. Industry standard, 50% (-ish)


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## Osseous (Jan 13, 2012)

"Industry Standard" is to build what you said you'd build.....time to step it up if it's my coin they're holding

Sent from my SM-N900V using Mountain Buzz mobile app


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## duct tape (Aug 25, 2009)

GilaRobusta said:


> 1500 smackers. Industry standard, 50% (-ish)


Your total cost was $3000? Is it gold plated?


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## GilaRobusta (Mar 19, 2015)

For a small cat, frame, oars, dry box, etc. it is in the market range… Sotar equivalent is approx. 3500. Other brands using lesser tubes are in the 2k range.. Gold plated at this point seems a mute point.

I was hoping this would bring them out of the closet so to speak. It seems if you are local you get your boat, if you are not a risk of bumping into at a boat ramp in the Pac Nw your low priority. I just would like the situation resolved fairly.

Again I did not mean to troll your fine board, but I've started to feel my options are limited.

J.


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## duct tape (Aug 25, 2009)

Oh sorry. Was thinking frame only. Agree with your main point and hope CWI hops back on here and resolves the issue.


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## spider (Jun 20, 2011)

From Canyon whitewater inflatables home page
PROJECT STATUS

•Customers with products on order-You can check on the status of your project here. With heavy phone traffic it is severely cutting into production answering calls to advise on project completion dates. Current customers email for a password,new customers will be issued one at the time of securing your order.

says also if they don't respond to call after 48hrs.
Seems like they need a 10$ hr secretary if they can't answer the phone.


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## Alaskajim (Apr 5, 2011)

*Flexibility is important*

I have a JAG - great boat. I live in Alaska so getting stuff up here is hard. We have a local outfit that sells NRS frames. I have enough pipe and stuff to rig for lightweight play boat or expedition rafting. Set up and flexibility is more important in my mind than anything else. Plain old NRS stuff will work fine and you can probably find a used set up at a swap.


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## RecreTec (Feb 22, 2009)

We would love to build your frame. With 41 yrs in business and a solid proven track record in top quality workmanship , reasonable prices and on time (3-6wks) delivery in season, we have one of the most loyal and positive followings in the industry. Dave at Madcaryr is a great guy and fantastic fabricator/frame builder too however if im not mistaken he just does it as side work which does take a fair amount of time Longer. Whomever you chose please chose carefully. I have many new customers this year that im going the extra mile to help out because they have either never gotten a frame they ordered and paid for last year or their frame built by another company has failed and the company refuses to repair or replace or refund. We too are an AIRE dealer and offer package discount pricing. Timmy RecreTec Mfg.


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## dogalot (Jul 6, 2005)

What? 3 pages and no love for NRS cat frames? Solid, dependable, adjustable.


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## RogueRat (Apr 29, 2015)

RecreTec said:


> We would love to build your frame. With 41 yrs in business and a solid proven track record in top quality workmanship , reasonable prices and on time (3-6wks) delivery in season, we have one of the most loyal and positive followings in the industry. Dave at Madcaryr is a great guy and fantastic fabricator/frame builder too however if im not mistaken he just does it as side work which does take a fair amount of time Longer. Whomever you chose please chose carefully. I have many new customers this year that im going the extra mile to help out because they have either never gotten a frame they ordered and paid for last year or their frame built by another company has failed and the company refuses to repair or replace or refund. We too are an AIRE dealer and offer package discount pricing. Timmy RecreTec Mfg.


 Recretec
This is an interesting post, you had posted on my other post about my Super Puma and frame I just ordered and said Sawyer has Growing pains that's why the delay on finding oars basically no big deal. 

My boating partner called you 4 weeks ago, you may remember looking for a frame for a Sotar SL 15, you spent the better part of the conversation trash talking Canyon and telling him about a cat frame they made for someone that broke the first day out. How you wouldn't get a boat from them and stay far away, they are pathological liars ,people have to wait forever and you are getting all their customers.

I have owned a Recretec product it was a great frame and boxes, it was purchased from Ron and Eddy in Springfield. The 41 years in business really has nothing to do with you as all those guys aren't there anymore. How long have you owned the company? that's what you are responsible for. Are you only going the extra mile now because it use to be somebody elses customer? That's what the statement sounded like.

After he talked with you for over 30 minutes he barely got any info on your product ,just canyon slams. He ordered his frame from Canyon, it was received in a 4 week time frame. Interestingly enough he obviously had concerns about the "broken " frame you spoke of and while we were there we got the whole story and also looked and sat in the supoposed "Broken" frame. The frame in no way had any issues especially not broken and the owner was refunded on his custom order just because he changed his mind after using it for months, it is now for sale as a demo in their shop if you would like to go see it. 

My point is, it is ok Sawyer isn't delivering oars that were ordered, it is ok to wait on a Madcatr for over a year, if you "Recretec" are behind its just growing pains. But if you wait on a Canyon frame for a year they are dirty bastards. I am guessing that's were this post is going you just made, spreading more BS on the internet this time. For your info I ordered my new Aire super P and frame from Canyon as well. 

Lying to people to get more business is not a good way to go, I don't see why manufacturers are always at each other, you would think it is much more productive to work together. If you doubt any part of this he would be happy to call you back today verify with receipts and through Sotar of when his SL boat was purchased and it now has an awesome frame sitting on it, Sotar was cool and Canyon was great with doing a frame on the Sotar boat. At least some can get along, its all about getting on the water for us not getting in the middle of vendor scraps.


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## RecreTec (Feb 22, 2009)

Well you are absolutely right i did get pretty upset but you must realize that in first off i have NEVER trash talked anyone but them and this is why. It became personal when close friends, shop owners and boaters of mine whom the owner of Canyon did not realize were my friends, came to me telling me how James from Canyon had told them 1) That he cut and formed ALL of our dry boxes for us....the exact design he copied to an absolute T that my company designed and built for over 35 yrs. 2)That he made our table frames. 3)That his "exclusive pro latch" was not only his design but exclusive to Canyon.....the latch system our original owner invented over 35 years ago when my company name was Cascade Frames. 
Lastly when Canyon lied and lied and continues to lie about SO many cases. He has NOT refunded Dave Breitenbach's money for the frame he refused to repair and now refuses to release to Dave because i offered to repair it for free. Not for personal gain but to help a fellow boater who has been taken severe advantage from. You see all this time ive kept my mouth shut until Canyon started taking peoples money and not producing product. I am passionate about what i do and who i do it for but my over zealousness can get me in trouble. 
Anyway, i apologize for any trash talk but its all just factual information that can be backed up by many many others not affiliated with me or my company....just look at ALL of whats going on ALL over the net or talk to any members of the OWA or to other whitewater equipment dealers and repair shops in Portland Oregon.


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## ob1coby (Jul 25, 2013)

Another AKA to add to Ortos' list. I hate the way you act like were too dumb to see it. J***s as I have tried to tell you before, just keep your head down and let your work speak for its self. You do good work, but every time you do this you make yourself look bad.


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## GC Guide (Apr 10, 2009)

He said, she said! Drama class has begun!


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## SpeyCatr (Aug 14, 2013)

Yup, another Orto alias. He's also been stirring crap as "CoastalDrifter" on another forum.


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## Kaseydc (May 10, 2014)

RogueRat said:


> Lying to people to get more business is not a good way to go,


I thought canyon was booked for the rest of the spring and summer and wasn't taking any more orders. I guess their website must be wrong if you were able to order a new raft package.


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## yesimapirate (Oct 18, 2010)

Nobody mentioned AAA Inflatables' frames. They will customize to your likes, and are quiet modular for modifications down the road.


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## Andy H. (Oct 13, 2003)

I'd also suggest you check in with Downriver Equipment, River Boat Works, and Whitewater Machine Works. These are all great folks who can customize a frame for whatever application you need for the whatever kind of boat you have. They also support the Buzz and are 100% drama free!

Thanks,

-AH


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## bloodhound (Oct 26, 2013)

I have a madcatr and l really appreciate how clean and simple it is. I purchased the frame for day runs but it could easily be set up for 2-3 nights. It is easy to stand on for last minute scouts. The only thing I don't like and it's petty is there is no beer holder on it like the DRL. My frame is not a custom and I'm sure you could add this feature. I also really like the DRL which is what I was originally shopping for. Like I said I just lucked into the madcatr. Canyon would also be a good choice. I recommend that you call over there and see what the time frame is if that is the way you want to go. All 3 of those frames are bomb proof.


Sent from my iPhone using Mountain Buzz


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## boicatr (Mar 14, 2013)

Timmy you are legit. Madcatr Dave you totally rock and you set the industry standard. Orto lets go have that beer some time. PRE frames are going thru some changes cuz Ronnie is getting out of it. A new frame collaboration between PRE and Class V products is about to 'go live'. Basically a PRE frame in aluminum only, with lots of cool features. Stay tuned. But one thing I will never do is trash on another manufacturer to promote something. This is a small industry and we all move it forward by supporting each other. Quality talks, bullshit walks. 
Ted


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## CB Rob (Feb 13, 2010)

I've got 20 years on my first nrs frame and it's still going strong. 
It's nice to be able to make adjustments as you gear, and your needs change. You can pick up extra top or bottom rails from your local metal supply company and have a setup for long trips as well as day trips.
You can also run with just the bottom rails and run you boat as a paddle cat.


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