# Vandalism of shuttle vehicles - Green River



## Amethyst Farm (Jul 14, 2008)

Just an FYI for Green River boaters using shuttle. All of our vehicles were vandalized when we took out Monday. A group coming in after us had been warned by the rangers at Lodore of this - nothing was said to us when we talked to them. All vehicles had gas/diesel thefts, several ran empty before reaching the nearest gas station in Vernal. In addition, any loose gear in trucks including toolboxes and hitches was taken. Is the park service doing anything about this at all???


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## rwhyman (May 23, 2005)

What section of the Green were you running? Lodore? Where exactly were the vehicles parked?


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## DurangoSteve (Jun 2, 2006)

What a drag. You'd think with the takeout being inside the monument they could police it a little better...


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## Amethyst Farm (Jul 14, 2008)

*Vandalism at Vernal take-out*



rwhyman said:


> What section of the Green were you running? Lodore? Where exactly were the vehicles parked?


We put in at Lodore and had our trucks shuttled to Vernal UT for take out. We were told that vehicles with locking gas caps had holes put in their tanks...

By the way - great trip, perfect weather!!!


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## Chad Brendel (Feb 26, 2007)

We were in the group behind you Amethyst Farms. We had 4 trucks 2 of them were completely emptied and the other two didn't seem to have anything happen to them. I talked with the shuttle company and they put our trucks down at Split Mtn. on Friday night. I also just called the Park Service and he is giving the police my info and they will contact me. Hopefully they can stop it from happening in the future.


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## Chad Brendel (Feb 26, 2007)

I will also second that perfect weather. It couldn't have any better.


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## go2water (Dec 20, 2003)

A few years ago we had the drive shaft from one of our vehicles swiped from that lot.


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## boatmusher (Jun 18, 2008)

I'm tired of leaving my truck and worrying about assholes like that. Those bottom feeders need to be taught a lesson. Wouldn't it be sweet to teach them one? I say we create a set-up and....


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## DurangoSteve (Jun 2, 2006)

A little "vigilante" surveillance of the takeout could net some Vernal douchebags...


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## boatmusher (Jun 18, 2008)

I got a roll of duct tape, tweezers and a 12 gauge. You ready?


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## DurangoSteve (Jun 2, 2006)

Tweezers? Sounds like cruel and unusual punishment.

I'm in!


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## boatmusher (Jun 18, 2008)

lets start cleaning up at loma. work our way west


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## Chad Brendel (Feb 26, 2007)

We need to find a way to disconnect the main gas line and have it go to a second tank with sugar in it. They should find them about 2 miles away with a blown engine.


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## DurangoSteve (Jun 2, 2006)

Monkeywrenching the douchebags. Nice touch!


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## BarryDingle (Mar 13, 2008)

This aggression will not stand,man. Seriously,someone needs to set these bitches up and teach em a lesson. If i lived near there i would've by now,I got the time........


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## carvedog (May 11, 2005)

boatmusher said:


> I'm tired of leaving my truck and worrying about assholes like that. Those bottom feeders need to be taught a lesson. Wouldn't it be sweet to teach them one? I say we create a set-up and....


get medieval on their ass. 

Sorry this is NSFW due to language. 

YouTube - Pulp Fiction - Ving Rhames


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## boatmusher (Jun 18, 2008)

I'm heading down Ruby/WW this weekend. Maybe I should go a day early and "meet" the neighbors. 

If vigilante justice was still around... People would be on much better behavior. You know what ol' Cactus Ed said, "We should bring back the art of dueling. It would improve manners around her." I'm sure he would be up for some "night work"!

Seriously, what is wrong with people?


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## Jensjustduckie (Jun 29, 2007)

Does anyone make an electrified car kit? Like an electric fence for your truck, I had a CJ-5 for a long time and alway wished I could electrify the steering wheel or rollbar as I saw more than one person peeking under my seats and in my tub while I was in a store or school.

Is this possible or am I just too inebriated?


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## Slunk (Jul 12, 2008)

Chad Brendel said:


> We need to find a way to disconnect the main gas line and have it go to a second tank with sugar in it. They should find them about 2 miles away with a blown engine.


Diesel fuel seems like it would be more effective in my mind... I'm not a motor head, but wouldn't their fuel filter clog before any real damage is done if sugar was used?


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## freexbiker (Jul 18, 2005)

The problem is...I could bet on it that they are putting it in a can instead of a car tank.Although it would be righteous to screw somebodies car to shit but you wouldn't be able to catch em... Boss and I were talking about this and what we would do. It would cost a bit but it would be worth it. Go get some octane booster and mix it with gas to unreasonable levels. When you park it there switch out your regular gas with the Super octane. Sooner or later when they finally use the gas the engine would be completely blown. Seems like it would work but there is still the cost of buying all the stuff.


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## brendodendo (Jul 18, 2004)

Why make it hard on them. Leave 5 gallons of gas with what ever additive seems right, in a cheap jug in the back of your truck. They will have to steal it. When they dump it into the engine of their choice, they will destroy it. You might not catch them, but youd sure wreak their fun.


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## WyoPadlr1 (May 5, 2005)

Wow, what a drag. Just finished reading all these posts. At least this sounds like dirtbags/meth-heads stealing from boaters instead of boaters stealing from boaters. Seems a little more prevalent down in CO than up here. Had some stuff stolen from me up on the Poudre Narrows once, from Cross Mt. takeout once. But then, we had our cars broken in to in the public takeout lot on the Salt (AZ), and we had a car broken in to at the takeout for the Tuolumne in Cali. 

I've always wanted to rig up a .45 or 9mm on some sort of revolving "auto-tracking" turret inside my car/truck that activated when I locked the doors, and any "unauthorized" entry resulted in the felon being shot. But, then I thought about having to break in to my own vehicle if I lost my keys.......

I agree: set the bastards up and go medieval on them. Nothing else sends a clearer message.


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## El Flaco (Nov 5, 2003)

I had a buddy that kept having his stereo stolen from his soft-top Jeep. After finding the second one ripped out of his dash, he got medieval; we he installed the third one, he secured some straight razors to the backside of the stereo where the wires connect - a few months later he came out in the morning to find blood all over the seats and console....but still had a stereo. 

Had to spray some blood out of his CJ, but said it was totally worth it....:twisted:


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## BrianK (Feb 3, 2005)

I think most of these suggestions are just jokes, but since I just learned about this in my Torts class I thought I would share. 

Your privilege to use lethal violent force to stop trespassers and theives is only applicable when life or personal injury is at stake, and you can't (legally) rig up a spring gun or other passive defense system to protect property alone. Although you should be able to. The supreme court is pretty strict with this one, because they don't want kids or other innocent parties getting shot. This is probably common knowledge, but I just don't want to see any of you vigilante types going to jail for a meth head.


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## WyoPadlr1 (May 5, 2005)

BrianK said:


> I think most of these suggestions are just jokes, but since I just learned about this in my Torts class I thought I would share.
> 
> Your privilege to use lethal violent force to stop trespassers and theives is only applicable when life or personal injury is at stake, and you can't (legally) rig up a spring gun or other passive defense system to protect property alone. Although you should be able to. The supreme court is pretty strict with this one, because they don't want kids or other innocent parties getting shot. This is probably common knowledge, but I just don't want to see any of you vigilante types going to jail for a meth head.


Not sure how many dirtbags are going to be eager to prosecute me for protecting my property, but I'll remember to not hire you as my defense laywer if it happens. Besides, you obviously know what they call 1000 lawyers at the bottom of the ocean: a good start, but not nearly enough.


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## BrianK (Feb 3, 2005)

Calm down, I didn't write the law, and im not saying that the law is correct, im just letting you know what it is. 

Its not the protecting of property thats the problem, its that if you rig up a system that system has no discretion. If you want to sit in your truck and shoot meth heads thats perfectly fine.

Also when the family of that meth head calls the prosecuter to press charges for manslaughter, and it is the law, the prosecuter can't really decide not to prosecute that.

once again no need for insults I'm just adding what I know on the subject.


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## BarryDingle (Mar 13, 2008)

Well,whats the law say about beatin the shit out've em? Or at least cutting the backs of their ankles with box cutters??


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## caspermike (Mar 9, 2007)

i was getting some cd's ripped off from my old truck when i was living in a crummy part of town. it happened 2 times and the third i put a bear trap in the backseat were the culprit was coming through the back window and it never happened again.


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## gh (Oct 13, 2003)

> Not sure how many dirtbags are going to be eager to prosecute me for protecting my property, but I'll remember to not hire you as my defense laywer if it happens.


I dont think they have to press charges. I think the DA will. Setting unmanned traps for violators is pretty frowned upon by the law. You may not like it but there it is. I am not a lawyer but I have seen the inside of a courtroom (you figure it out). Lets take the electrified jeep concept. Little kid sees it and tells his parents he wants to sit in it. They say no, he insists. They look around, see no harm in it. You know where its going and you spend the rest of your life in an 8x8.....wait thats the size of my cube.


Actually rereading this, it doesnt matter if its unmanned or not. As mentioned earlier, you have to meet your level of response with theirs. You cant get use a bazooka if they are throwing rocks kinda thing


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## goldcamp (Aug 9, 2006)

I like the easy steal 5 gallon tank with additives idea. You certainely couldn't get in trouble for that and destroying someones car is just revenge.

I've also heard that rigging defense systems for your vehicle that cause injury are illegal. I while back I read a story about a guy who rigged some kinda spring loaded 4x4. When the perp opened the door of the vehicle his femur was promptly snapped. Damn, why do love vigilante justice so much. :-D


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## raymo (Aug 10, 2008)

I second the 5 gallon gas can idea. Plus it utilize's the K.I.S.S.(Kiss-It-Simple-Stupid) method of payback.


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## Snowhere (Feb 21, 2008)

So let me see if I get this right. Our only defense is to have locking caps and weld some steel around our gas tanks to make it so they can't punch a hole in it to drain the gas? That and I had removed my tool box from the truck to not take any chances. I will have to take my 1 gallon can and mix up a coctail to leave in the back!

All of CO is not that bad. I left my truck at the Catamount takeout this past spring for three days. The catch is I accidently left one window down. Nothing got stolen at all. The Loma site gets a bad rep do to it's proximity to Grand Junction and being right off I70. It is just too easy for purps to keep a eye on it and notice when vehicles are left there.


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## Andy H. (Oct 13, 2003)

Its amazing that these thefts are happening in a place where there's not only a frequently-occupied campground a few hundred feet away but also in the Nat'l Monument where you have to pay a $10 fee to enter. My car has spent days there and never once have I worried about something like this happening because of the above.

Hitting a number of vehicles like this is pretty brazen, a federal offense, and takes a lot more than 20 seconds to execute. 

As a civil libertarian, I don't like to say it but maybe getting license plate numbers for vehicles coming and going would help solve this problem. I like the idea of the 5-gal can with either sugar or octane booster in it if the NPS can't police what's within their own boundaries. The only problem is how to dispose of it if it doesn't get ripped off before you get off the river.

-AH


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## Canada (Oct 24, 2006)

This was common place in New Mexico when I was growing up.

All lawyers are scum, but vigilante justice can be too. When I was a kid a neighbor had someone stealing from his barn. Ended up catching an 8 year old in a bear trap. Unintended consequences suck.


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## ecarlson972 (Apr 24, 2007)

*Sugar in the tank? Urban Myth!*

Pouring sugar in a gas tank will not ruin a motor like most of you think. But it will cause problems. Sugar does not dissolve in Gas. Therefore it stays a solid and will most likely be blocked by the fuel pump sock or the fuel filter. In the unlikely chance that any of the sugar particles would get passed either of the filters it may partially clog an injector. But on more modern vehicles the fuel system runs at high pressures and would most likely would just clear itself. 

http://www.snopes.com/autos/grace/sugar.asp

Also dont waste your money on octane booster. That will only make the car run sluggish. 

*Octane Rating:* A measure of a gasoline's resistance to exploding too early in the engine cycle, which causes knocking. The higher the rating, the lower the chance of premature ignition.

Basically the highr the rating the harder it is to ignite. 

Cheaper idea fill five gallon gas can with four gallons of water 1 gallon of gas. The gas is lighter so it will sit on top so when they open the can they will still get the smell. And will give the same effect if not worse than the octane booster.

I cant think of any fuel mixtures that would truly damage an engine. But you could leave a quart of oil filled with sand and oil mixture and hope they take that and use it in there next oil change.


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## DurangoSteve (Jun 2, 2006)

I believe Karo Syrup was used in the "Monkey Wrench Gang."


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## Chad Brendel (Feb 26, 2007)

I'm now really pissed I just went out to my truck to get som Bungee cords out of the tool box and they broke the lock with a screw driver or something and stole all my bungees, rachet tie downs, 15 feet of log chain, tow receiver and shackle, misc. tools and the worse thing of all my purple and gold Vikings football that I've had since I was 8 years old. I need more ideas on how to get even. I'm sure I'll get plenty Vikings comments also.


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## caspermike (Mar 9, 2007)

dude, chad do you have some bad karma going on or just a bunch of methheads hangin around your hood. id be siiting in the car with a screrw driver hiding out and waiting for them to strick again or go lookingfor those bastards chances are they are still commiting criminal acts.


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## Chad Brendel (Feb 26, 2007)

This happend at Split Moutain some time between Friday night when the Shuttle Company dropped the trucks off and Monday afternoon when we pulled off the river. I just didn't look in the tool box until today.


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## rwhyman (May 23, 2005)

Amethyst Farm said:


> We put in at Lodore and had our trucks shuttled to Vernal UT for take out. We were told that vehicles with locking gas caps had holes put in their tanks...
> 
> By the way - great trip, perfect weather!!!


I'm still confused. Do you mean Jensen and not Vernal?


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## Chad Brendel (Feb 26, 2007)

Now that I look at a map. Yes it was at Jensen.


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## Canada (Oct 24, 2006)

The crime on the patch right now is bad. I've had crews have cat tractors and front loaders disapear with flat bed tracks being the only evidence. The problem is it is probably some of the same guys that are working for them during the day. The sheriffs are out their, but it will take some really good luck to catch them.

Karma will get them in the end.


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## tango (Feb 1, 2006)

might be worth it to ask the company shuttling your vehicles to drop them on the day that you take out, reducing the time they sit unattended. i worked for a raft company who ran shuttles on the Salt this year and that's the only way we did it.


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## boatmusher (Jun 18, 2008)

I'm just saying.... Imagine being perched a ways off in the bushes. Your car out in the open... Grand Junctions finest pieces of shit that they have to offer... Getting out of their car... Walking towards yours.... You Shoot out their back window....
Sending the scurrying for safety and cover... They freak out and take off....
Do you really think they'd call the police? Imagine.....

Thomas Jefferson said, Let no man be w/out a firearm at his side."


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## Snowhere (Feb 21, 2008)

F**K shooting out the window. A nice blast through the radiator and block with a high powered rifle. Then charge them with pistals blasting and yelling at them to drop or be dead. Duct tape them hand foot and mouth and then decide if you call the police, or drop them into the river....... 

Probably break a few laws, but we can day dream....


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## freexbiker (Jul 18, 2005)

goldcamp said:


> I like the easy steal 5 gallon tank with additives idea. You certainely couldn't get in trouble for that and destroying someones car is just revenge.


You can't get in trouble for it with out them admitting they stole it.
911 call
"Um ya my car just exploded,from the gas I put in it."
"Where did you get the gas?"
"I stole it from the back of some dudes pickup."
"I'll send an officer immediatly"
Personally I think it would be one of the best calls ever. But they would never be stupid enough to do that shit. 
Or are they...


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## caspermike (Mar 9, 2007)

Fuck it snowhere, just finish them off by throwin them in the river as a sacrifice to the river gods!


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## Snowhere (Feb 21, 2008)

Caspermike, I would hate to polute the river with their bodies!

Better still, just hike them in to the desert to die a slow death!


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## DurangoSteve (Jun 2, 2006)

No need for killin'. Ambush the perps and zip tie 'em to their bumpers. Drain their crankcases. Start their vehicles and let 'em seize up. Leave immediately. Mission accomplished.


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## Slunk (Jul 12, 2008)

Vengeance with heart
One of these: Holds 200 rounds








With a bunch of these: (four grams of extremely hot pepper powder (Capsaicin II) There used in riot control









Crank that Tippmann up to 350 fps, get 30 feet away, and wait. When the thief's show up, lay into them. 
Not only will they be blind, barely able to breath, and burning; they will have half dollar sized bleeding welts that will also burn like hell as long as you keep firing. 

I would have high doubts that the thief would fuck with anyone for a great length of time


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## ZGjethro (Apr 10, 2008)

ecarlson972 said:


> Pouring sugar in a gas tank will not ruin a motor like most of you think. But it will cause problems. Sugar does not dissolve in Gas. Therefore it stays a solid and will most likely be blocked by the fuel pump sock or the fuel filter. In the unlikely chance that any of the sugar particles would get passed either of the filters it may partially clog an injector. But on more modern vehicles the fuel system runs at high pressures and would most likely would just clear itself.
> 
> snopes.com: Sugar in the Gas Tank
> 
> ...


I second what ecarlson said. On the TV show, Mythbusters they tested sugar in the gas tank and the car just kept running. I do not know if damage was inflicted. What stopped the engine quickly was bleach in the tank, though water would be less detectable. Any mixture of octane boost would probably be pretty diluted when added to the gas in their tank.


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