# Family boating noob seeks advice and some random stuff.



## gbmaz (Oct 7, 2007)

BLott-

The run you are are looking for may be right in your back yard - White Rock Canyon on the Rio Grande. Check out the info posted in this thread from last April:

http://www.mountainbuzz.com/forums/f11/ideas-for-memorial-day-raft-trip-23831.html

It is definitely possible to walk any of the rapids, and the cow paths make it pretty easy. 

I unfortunately did not get a chance to run White Rock Canyon last year as I planned. Crappy weather shot our Memorial Day trip and then we bought a house. I am hoping to sneak in a trip in early May, but weather and work might interfere.

I hope this gives you some thoughts. For a warm up with the kids you could do the day run on the Chama and just break it up to be an overnight.

SYOTR,

George


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## BLott (Mar 27, 2010)

right, thanks! I have heard of the whiterock trip.. that is definitely on our list, and yes, it's right in our backyard!


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## Matt J (May 27, 2005)

firepans and oars can be tough to find used as people are more likely to break or lose one than upgrade, a frame on the other hand may be easier to find, just make sure you measure your boat well and know if it'll fit or not

you could always build one out of wood and paint it with urethane, the towers, pins, clips, etc. can be purchased at CKS, Down River, or that big company up in Idaho has 'em - if you're on a budget

good luck!


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## leo_amore (May 30, 2006)

I have a DRE King Sling and Cargo Floor that I am not using anymore and I am pretty sure that you just bought that boat from my neighbors. So getting them to Salida before you come up would be easy enough. Let me know if that is something you need and I will figure out what they might be worth. They are both barely used.


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## BLott (Mar 27, 2010)

MJ- Thanks for the info. I've spent some time on homemade wooden oar frames. I have ~$300 in our budget for a frame so hopefully I can score a deal on a Bighorn for that. If not, I'll just have to...ahem...change our budget. There is a rafting company local to me that wants to get rid of a bunch of stuff, including firepans, big dry bags, etc. I'm going by next week to scope the stuff and see if it's been through the wringer. I'm not going to get a bunch of abused gear, but he says it's all "lightly used". sounds good to me. Also says he has some Carlisle oars he'll cut me a deal on. We'll see if they're bent to shit and swiss cheesed blades. 

LA- is your neighbor R.A.? seems like a really nice guy, and really stoked about the boat. Actually, it came to him from a rafting company I used to work for...and we only had one Maravia (iin a fleet of Avons). About 11 years ago I wrapped that boat in the 'narrows' my rookie year. So I think I actually wrapped the boat I bought a decade earlier. crazy, eh? 

pardon my noobness, but 'not sure what a king sling and cargo floor are. you got a link?


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## slavetotheflyrod (Sep 2, 2009)

Don't forget supersoakers and water cannons for the kids - you'll thank me later


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## leo_amore (May 30, 2006)

LA- is your neighbor R.A.? seems like a really nice guy, and really stoked about the boat. Actually, it came to him from a rafting company I used to work for...and we only had one Maravia (iin a fleet of Avons). About 11 years ago I wrapped that boat in the 'narrows' my rookie year. So I think I actually wrapped the boat I bought a decade earlier. crazy, eh? 

Yeah that's him and he is a really nice guy....that is also a cool history for your new/old boat!

pardon my noobness, but 'not sure what a king sling and cargo floor are. you got a link?[/QUOTE]

Cargo Floor is suspended a couple of inches above the floor in the stern gear area and keeps gear from from rubbing on the floor. It also allows for free drainage under your stuff.
Down River Equipment

King Sling does the opposite, goes over all your stuff and keeps it in the boat.
Down River Equipment

My boat is just a little bit smaller than your new one so these should work for you if you are interested. My wife bought me one of these a couple of years ago

Revolutionary Everything Bag

and it's awesome (and I highly recommend it!) so they are just collecting dust. Like I said they have been barely used. Let me know and enjoy yourself. We are starting our 3 year old out on the overnight stuff this year as well. It should be good.


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## BLott (Mar 27, 2010)

thanks Leo,

i'll send you a PM about that gear.

Interested, especially in the floor.

We're looking at trying to time a Dolores trip (slickrock-bedrock). It looks like we could have some other families with kids. If you'd like to join, let me know. It'd be for ~ May 25thish, depending on spill releases from Mcafee, of course.


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## Matty (May 13, 2004)

Buy the king sling too, you won't regret it, they really make rigging a no brainer.


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## jeffvdgo (Dec 5, 2008)

It may not be in your budget this year, but shade is a big deal with kids on sw float trips. My kids got scorched on our first family trip down the san juan a few years back - made for a tough several days. After that I started River Sombrero to bring bimini tops to rafts that can mount to oar frames. Give me a shout if you want more info. www.riversombrero.com


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## BLott (Mar 27, 2010)

thanks, Jeffv cool idea.

we just ordered a big beach umbrella, but will keep your sombrero in mind. great product, good luck! maybe next year.


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## BLott (Mar 27, 2010)

thanks, Jeffv cool idea.

we just ordered a big beach umbrella, but will keep your sombrero in mind. great product, good luck! maybe next year.


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## Toni (Sep 18, 2006)

Super functional kids' outdoor clothes is a must. I have a very anal list if you want it.

Available, healthy, boat snacks. Beach snacks. Tent snacks. Put in and take out snacks.


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## leo_amore (May 30, 2006)

Toni said:


> Super functional kids' outdoor clothes is a must. I have a very anal list if you want it.
> 
> Available, healthy, boat snacks. Beach snacks. Tent snacks. Put in and take out snacks.


We have a 3 year old about to make his first multiday trips, _please_ post your "very anal list", I doubt that we are the only parents who could learn something from the experience of those who have gone before.
Thanks in advance for any advice as I am sure it will be valuable;
Ken


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## BLott (Mar 27, 2010)

Toni, ^^^^^ x2. we're pretty good at packing for adventures, but rivers are a whole new game for us. that list would be appreciated for sure.

Ken- pretty sure I'll take the floor/sling from you. I think you'll see RA this weekend? I'll be up there ~4/10.


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## telebrewer77 (May 16, 2008)

For a family trip, we did Labyrinth Canyon outside of Moab last year with 18 people, including a 3 and 4 year old. It does require a permit, but its not a lottery style permit system. We just downloaded the form from the BLM website, filled it out and left it with the ranger station at the put in at Green River State Park, no problems. It was a 5 day class 1 float, and as beautiful as it gets. We spent 4 days on the river and had 1 layover day in the middle for hiking and swimming. I would totally recommend it to any family boaters. The only thing I would do differently, is rent a sat phone. Labyrinth is extremely remote and especially with kids, better safe than sorry.


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## LloydSwartz (Jun 24, 2008)

I am located in Albuquerque. Currently I have a 6 month old, so he is not going anywhere this year, but myself and my brothers are considering the Espanola to Cochiti float trip, followed by some Arkansas river action for the 4th of July. I did quite a bit of Arkansas with a 9 year old a couple of years ago, and had a blast. Definitely open to some ideas though. We are currently using IKs.


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## BLott (Mar 27, 2010)

tb-
that sounds great. I was looking at Labyrinth and Stillwater canyons yesterday. good advice about the sat phone. 

either stillwater or Labyrinth are on the list for this summer. we're thinking dolores whenever there is the window, then try to to one of those runs on the green in June.


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## jamwin33 (May 20, 2008)

A little bit farther north of the San Juan - you can float Labrynth Canyon on the Green between Ruby Ranch and Mineral Bottom - no whitewater, beautiful canyon, no permit required. Also, an 18" diameter, 4" deep livestock feed pan from a feedstore (about $15) makes a great firepan.


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## Toni (Sep 18, 2006)

Here is my list. I'm sure it's missing something and I would love to see what others have to add, there's always room for improvement! Especially if it makes the trip easier and the kids happier.

Wool, fleece, poly, and/or nylon clothes only. It's important that there is no cotton, even undies and socks. The only exception would be when it's super hot and you want a cotton shirt to keep wet for cooling.

sunscreen 
California Baby | Natural & Organic Products | Official Site (love this stuff, esp the stick)

aloe
bug spray 
Natural Insect Repellent - Great against Mosquitoes, Ticks, Gnats, Flies, Ants, Black Flies or Organic Anti-Bug Balm by Badger - All Natural Insect Repellent

Sting Stop (for the nasty bites you'll always get) 
Great Homeopathic remedies - - By Company - Boericke & Tafel - Topicals - Stingstop Insect Gel

sunhat
sunglasses
water bottle
first aid (should have age specific things, such as homeopathy for teething or fevers)
wipes
beanie or balaclava (cold temp sleeping)
mittens/gloves
rain coat/pants (ponchos are questionable)
rain boots (no liners for quicker drying)
Kamik - STOMP

Keens (good for off and on river)
fleece lined jacket with outer wind layer
fleece shirt/pants
long undie shirt/pants
swim shorts
long sleeve swim shirt
quick dry sun shirt
quick dry sun pants
socks, thin and thick
bag for dirty clothes
beach towel

wetsuit
drysuit/drytop
helmet
PFD
paddling gloves
booties

Big Agnes Sleeping bag with pad pocket. It helps to keep them warm and on the pad. 

children's binoculars, compass, magnifying glass, headlamp
sand toys/water guns
favorite book
notebook/crayons
camp chair

Lots of fruit (grapes are great), yogurt, healthy trail mix, cheese & crackers, energy & protein bars
Keep a small lunch set of utensils handy in the dry box

REI sales are a good place to go, or second hand stores
Patagonia, Solumbra or Coolibar make some nice stuff, but pricy 
Sun Precautions,30+ SPF Clothing or Sun Protection Clothing For Children, Kids Sun Protective Clothing – Coolibar Inc.

Have fun most of all!


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## Toni (Sep 18, 2006)

Here is my version of the right kind of boots


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## Toni (Sep 18, 2006)

And don't forget the sarong!


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## Toni (Sep 18, 2006)

Get them doing dishes early!

Wow, sorry for so many posts... good memories! He's 8 now.


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## catwoman (Jun 22, 2009)

lifejacket - of course. When our little guy was really little we went with a type III floation suit (life jacket and swim suit in one) that can be found at walmart. That way the life jacket was always on.

We also used his bike helmet on the river, instead of buying a specialized helmet, while he was really little.

Fishing pole - keeps him occupied for hours on flat water, even though he has yet to catch something - probably because we don't know crap 'bout fishing.

Always have the rain/splash gear and fleece at the ready. The little ones aren't working as hard as you and when they get cold, the crying starts, and when one starts usually the other isn't far behind. Being cold is no fun. Cold feet are particularly common - I reccomend wet socks, or seal skin socks with the sandals.

I think we will get a water stick (gun) this year for warm desert trips.

Second on the snacks, snacks, and more snacks. If they are sugary you will be in for trouble.


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## LloydSwartz (Jun 24, 2008)

I would definitely be up for the Dolores if it runs. Keep in touch, PM me and we can make contact some time.


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## BLott (Mar 27, 2010)

^^thanks for the advice all. We're pretty good with the snacks and activities part. Our kids spend lots of time at ski areas and camping...it's the raft-specific stuff that is most hopeful. Our 5 year old has a fishing pole also but has never caught anything. She's pretty excited to fish off the raft.


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## leo_amore (May 30, 2006)

BLott said:


> Toni, ^^^^^ x2. we're pretty good at packing for adventures, but rivers are a whole new game for us. that list would be appreciated for sure.
> 
> Ken- pretty sure I'll take the floor/sling from you. I think you'll see RA this weekend? I'll be up there ~4/10.


Toni- that's awesome...links and everything!
We are having dinner sunday with RA and I will hand off the goods.


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## Toni (Sep 18, 2006)

Happy to help! Have a great season.


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## telebrewer77 (May 16, 2008)

Oh, one more tip for the labyrinth trip. Make sure to bring plenty of 100% DEET!!!! We went on a high water year last year and got decimated by the skeeters!!! We went through 15 bottles in the first 3 days. As long as the water isn't as high as it was last year, i.e. 12000 cfm, you should be good though.


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## Toni (Sep 18, 2006)

Holy crap! You're only putting that on your clothes right? That shit's toxic.


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## kayakfreakus (Mar 3, 2006)

Toni said:


> Holy crap! You're only putting that on your clothes right? That shit's toxic.



100% deet will also eat through a lot of fabric types as well if I remember right, stuff is as nasty as it is effective. I think its like 30% or less when (if) used on kids.


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## Toni (Sep 18, 2006)

I guess it should go on your skin then, so you don't ruin your clothes.


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## BLott (Mar 27, 2010)

...totally off topic...but years ago I had deet in the same little zip-loc as my toothbrush. it leaked, I didn't realize it, and brushed my teeth with pure DEET. 

my tounge felt burnt and I couln't taste anything for a week.

but I digress.


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## BoilermakerU (Mar 13, 2009)

catwoman said:


> ...Always have the rain/splash gear and fleece at the ready. The little ones aren't working as hard as you and when they get cold, the crying starts, and when one starts usually the other isn't far behind. Being cold is no fun...


More importantly, have it ON them before they think they need it. My kids tend to wait until they get wet before putting it on, then they get cold, and the crying starts. They do much better when I insist they put it on before we go any further down the river. Float trips aren't as critical, but anything with some splashy wave trains or more, get it ono them while they are already warm and dry!

And you can never have enough snacks. Never. LOL


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## alanbol (Jun 3, 2005)

*Better late than never*

We've been boating with kids since they were 6 months old (flat water). 

Ruby-Horsethirf: Great midweek, a zoo on weekends. We've done several early season trips of 4 days staying at Cottonwood-Mee Canyon-Black Rocks. Mee has the best day-hike on the river. If you layover, I think it's better than Black Rocks.

And about those river clothes: kids always play in the sand (duh!). If you've got a little boy, cut out the mesh liner of their shorts, so their junk don't get so chapped!

Have a great time! You and your kids will have a blast.


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