# Dolores River Guide



## 2tomcat2

PM sent.


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## Eric Anderson

Last June, the guy at Ridgway Outdoor Experience had several for sale.


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## tczues

I'd be interested for a fair price.


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## b.pi

Rumor has it the BLM is working on some publicly available maps prior to the spill.


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## CSHolt

Correct, I have heard that for sure the map section of the book will be available for download for free from the public lands site. Also for a small fee, the entire guidebook will be available for download as well.


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## jmacn

Ive become a fan of Gaia GPS for smart phones. First river trip using it was the D last year. You can download topo maps or sat photo maps at home, then when you're out on a trip without service it can still track your location on a map. Obviously technology doesn't substitute for having a paper map, & knowing how to use one. I bring a backup battery charger for my phone and really enjoy pulling one gizmo out of the watershed that takes photos & tells me exactly where I am. We did the whole trip from McFee to Dewey bridge and my buddy with the guide book would be flipping thru the pages pretty sure where we where. Anytime we actually needed to know I'd double check the phone and we would know right away our exact location. Pretty sweet!


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## CSHolt

jmacn said:


> Ive become a fan of Gaia GPS for smart phones. First river trip using it was the D last year. You can download topo maps or sat photo maps at home, then when you're out on a trip without service it can still track your location on a map. Obviously technology doesn't substitute for having a paper map, & knowing how to use one. I bring a backup battery charger for my phone and really enjoy pulling one gizmo out of the watershed that takes photos & tells me exactly where I am. We did the whole trip from McFee to Dewey bridge and my buddy with the guide book would be flipping thru the pages pretty sure where we where. Anytime we actually needed to know I'd double check the phone and we would know right away our exact location. Pretty sweet!


 
That's great advice!!! I have started using it for climbing and backcountry skiing, but this sounds a great application for GAIA... Cheers...


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## riverdoghenry

@CSHolt,

To clarify, is the old Delores river guide no longer available and out-of-print? If so, I have it and can probably scan it into a PDF and then some how share it. It's fairly short and brief. I would suggest you order some waterproof printing paper from Amazon and have Kinkos color laser print it for you. I've done this with custom maps. Cheers!


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## CSHolt

riverdoghenry said:


> @CSHolt,
> 
> To clarify, is the old Delores river guide no longer available and out-of-print? If so, I have it and can probably scan it into a PDF and then some how share it. It's fairly short and brief. I would suggest you order some waterproof printing paper from Amazon and have Kinkos color laser print it for you. I've done this with custom maps. Cheers!




Correct... I actually had a very awesome Buzzard (2tomcat2 ) send me a copy!!! THANKS AGAIN 2tomcat2 !!!!!


That being said, I am sure others would love to get their hands on a copy of this guidebook, since on EBAY, people are asking 99.00$ - 300.00$ for a used one. Book is dated, however still has very valuable information...


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## Rojo

*Dolores Slickrock takeout?*

So, how was the Slick Rock takeout situation ever resolved last year?
The old takeout on rr upstream of the bridge worked well, but private land owner had threatened to close access.
BLM offered an alternate further down stream that added miles of dirt road and poor access to river.
Is there a definite plan in place for this season?

I wasn't able to keep pace with the moving target of the release last year but settled for the high 4K release on the Chama instead.


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## jporter59

*Ralph's garage*

I used to boat with the authors back in the 90's and I bet Ralph has a few 100 copies in his garage in Jelm Wyo. I will see if I can get a hold of him and see, and will post again when I find something out. Amazon only wants $1026 plus shipping, my 2 copies make me rich!


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## 2tomcat2

Might try:

Out West Books
Grand Junction, CO

Out West Books « Books by, for and about the West Out West Books


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## ColoradoDave

Rojo said:


> So, how was the Slick Rock takeout situation ever resolved last year?
> The old takeout on rr upstream of the bridge worked well, but private land owner had threatened to close access.
> BLM offered an alternate further down stream that added miles of dirt road and poor access to river.
> Is there a definite plan in place for this season?
> 
> I wasn't able to keep pace with the moving target of the release last year but settled for the high 4K release on the Chama instead.


The people who live up the hill by the highway bridge let people park there and put in / take out just down stream of the bridge, river left for a small fee. I think $10 or so. they said they had over 200 cars there at one point.

The take out could be just a little fast, though, for heavy rafts at higher flows. Last year that didn't really matter at peak of 1200 or so.


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## ABusMaximus

Anyone have a Dolores River Guide book to lend or sell? I know they're a rare/hot commodity but I thought I'd check just in case. 


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## 2tomcat2

PM sent.


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## 86304

PM me if you still need one.


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## 29singlespeed

i would be interested as well.


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## 86304

sorry, sold.


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## jporter59

*The map portion*

I spoke with Ralph Devries one of the authors of the guide and he didn't care if we made copies of the map part and resold them. I am still trying to contact Stephen Maurer and see what he thinks. If he doesn't care I believe we will see what one of the copy centers will charge me to copy the map portion on water proof paper and put it on a spiral ring thingy. I'll keep you posted, I won't be back from spring break until the 23rd March. It won't be the whole guide so it won't have all the other info but figured the map was what most folks were after.


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## 29singlespeed

That would be great!
I would love just an electronic PDF copy of the map as I can print one here. 

thanks
Travis


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## jpiersons26

I am hoping to run the Dolores soon. Does the guide book mention reliable fresh water along the river? I hear the river proper is a bit salty.


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## jpiersons26

To be clear, if riverdoghenry is still offering a free pdf version of a $200 out-of-print book on Amazon, I will happily take it.


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## Badazws6

29singlespeed said:


> That would be great!
> I would love just an electronic PDF copy of the map as I can print one here.
> 
> thanks
> Travis


I'll second that.


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## ianpbarrett

I'm pretty certain the blm is going to release one... printable pdf. Might even work on your phone.


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## bigwatertoby

For what it is worth I was in Moab over the Xmas holiday's and the visitor center in town had 2 brand new copies sitting on the self............I already have 3 copies so I left them for some lucky river rat to stumble across. Hopefully someone can get them if still there.....


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## riverdoghenry

jpiersons26 said:


> To be clear, if riverdoghenry is still offering a free pdf version of a $200 out-of-print book on Amazon, I will happily take it.


PM sent to you


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## b.pi

jpiersons26 said:


> I am hoping to run the Dolores soon. Does the guide book mention reliable fresh water along the river? I hear the river proper is a bit salty.



Between that and the silt I'd plan on bringing all of your potable water. There are numerous Creek's but the low elevation ones are running right now and not reliable for when you're going.


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## Snow4us

If anyone is taking pics of their guide book to make a PDF, would love a PM for the link.

Cheers!


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## ColoradoDave

jporter59 said:


> I spoke with Ralph Devries one of the authors of the guide and he didn't care if we made copies of the map part and resold them. I am still trying to contact Stephen Maurer and see what he thinks. If he doesn't care I believe we will see what one of the copy centers will charge me to copy the map portion on water proof paper and put it on a spiral ring thingy. I'll keep you posted, I won't be back from spring break until the 23rd March. It won't be the whole guide so it won't have all the other info but figured the map was what most folks were after.


Someone with a physical copy should verify that behind the title page it lists the authors as the copyright holders and that it was not assigned to the publisher.


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## 2tomcat2

ColoradoDave is correct; copyright laws are in effect here. I no longer have my
copies, so if someone would please verify this info, thanks!


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## riverdoghenry

ColoradoDave said:


> Someone with a physical copy should verify that behind the title page it lists the authors as the copyright holders and that it was not assigned to the publisher.


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## Chief Niwot

Not a river map, but Nat Geo has put all of there topo maps on line for free printing.

National Geographic Maps


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## ColoradoDave

Woop. There it is.

Southwest Natural and Cultural Heritage Association is the publisher and copyright holder for that book.

You will need to get their permission to copy and put it in the public domain, not the authors.


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## riverdoghenry

ColoradoDave said:


> Woop. There it is.
> 
> Southwest Natural and Cultural Heritage Association is the publisher and copyright holder for that book.
> 
> You will need to get their permission to copy and put it in the public domain, not the authors.


I did some online searching for Southwest Natural and Cultural Heritage Association found that they were in Arizona. The number I called didn’t work. I then did an Arizona State Entity Search and didn’t find any active registration. 

It appears the Southwest Natural and Cultural Heritage Association may be gone. Likely the reason the Dolores Guide has been unavailable for so long.

I’ll need to look in to copyright laws in regards to an entity that has been abandoned or dissolved.


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## ColoradoDave

I suspect the association may have been the authors and the BLM. If it was, the BLM will be the nut to crack especially if they are trying to charge for it in the future.

All members of the association would need to relinquish their rights to put it in public domain, though. I would recommend against that without approval especially if it can be traced back to an individual.

It's similar to when a compilation occurs and a lot of authors are involved.

Good luck with your search. Maybe J. Porter can speak to Ralph Devries again and ask what the association was.


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## rtsideup

Or you can just walk into Ridgway Outdoor Experience and buy one off the shelf. I think that many local shops have NOS of these. 
Seems to be an interwebs issue.


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## Electric-Mayhem

riverdoghenry said:


> I did some online searching for Southwest Natural and Cultural Heritage Association found that they were in Arizona. The number I called didn’t work. I then did an Arizona State Entity Search and didn’t find any active registration.
> 
> It appears the Southwest Natural and Cultural Heritage Association may be gone. Likely the reason the Dolores Guide has been unavailable for so long.
> 
> I’ll need to look in to copyright laws in regards to an entity that has been abandoned or dissolved.


It appears they changed their name to the Public Lands Interpretive Association...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_Lands_Interpretive_Association

My non-professional interpretation of the copyright page is that the BLM had some input and provided maps and info, but doesn't have rights to the copyright. I could be completely wrong since I'm no expert but it seems more like an acknowledgment then saying they have publishing rights.


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## wilddogz

Here's their contact info. I emailed them to ask if there's any plan to publish a new edition or if not, put an electronic copy in the public domain. PublicLands.org


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## riverdoghenry

*Fair Use Exemption*

Even if an out-of-print book is still protected by copyright, some uses of that book may be considered fair use. *Fair use is a statutory exemption that allows for works to be used for* criticism, scholarship and *other reasons that promote the public good.* For example, copying several chapters of an out-of-print book for a non-profit educational purpose would probably be considered fair use.However, fair use arises as a defense in a copyright infringement lawsuit, and the U.S. Copyright Office warns against using fair use as a substitute for obtaining permission to use a work.

I personally translate the fair use exemption in copying the guidebook (not for profit); falls well under the “reasons that promote the public good”, because the public is not able to obtain this guide book at a reasonable price. Copying this guidebook would “promote the public good” by allowing the public to safely navigate a potential more dangerous river without the pertinent information.

Cheers


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## tjligon25

Riverdog, feel free to do some good for the public for me with some Dolores maps 😀

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## tetonyeti

I'm also very interested in aquiring a copy of the Guidebook! Does anyone know where or when the downloadable version is hard about might be available? Or if someone can make a copy or sell me one I would love to chat. Thanks!


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## Solawetz88

*Dolores guide books found!*

After about a million phone calls I finally found a hard copy! If y'all read this thread someone suggested Ridgway Outdoor Experience in Ridgway, CO!! Low and behold he has ~10 copies as of yesterday. Let the race begin!


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## tmacc

Yeah, they want $50. I realize they're rare, but.......


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## smithk2ski

I know there has been some noise about the BLM potentially providing a downloadable copy of the map. Can anyone substantiate these rumors or have an idea of what the best BLM office/contact would be to ask the question of?

Folks are going to start hitting the water before too long and it will not do much good if they do put out an E-copy but not until July...

Thanks in advance.


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## riverdoghenry

A couple of weeks ago, we had a Salt Lake print center scan the map section and produce a small box of spiral bound copies on heavy waterproof paper. Unfortunately, the copy center just informed us that they didn’t keep a digital copy. However, they will scan it again for free and print, cut, and bind for another small run of them.

I don’t have the available time right now undertake this project again, but *I will loan my book to a local who is interested in taking this on. I will need a deposit that encourages that it is returned to me.* I’m not interested in selling the book and the deposit will be returned to the borrower.

This is a bigger 92-page guidebook that covers 171-miles and cost $30 each to have scanned, printed on heavy waterproof paper, cut and bound. The original cost $16 and is not printed on waterproof paper, so not really a bad upgrade for price. 

Cheers


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## riverdoghenry

tmacc said:


> Yeah, they want $50. I realize they're rare, but.......


Sadly, $50 is the best deal I've seen in some time. This guy wants $2,400.00 for his used copy:

https://www.amazon.com/Dolores-DeVr...490291193&sr=8-3&keywords=dolores+river+guide


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## smithk2ski

This is an excellent option. What was their minimum run size on this?

I may be down in SLC for a couple days next week, I will coordinate if it works out.

Thanks kindly.

-Sam


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## riverdoghenry

smithk2ski said:


> This is an excellent option. What was their minimum run size on this?
> 
> I may be down in SLC for a couple days next week, I will coordinate if it works out.
> 
> Thanks kindly.
> 
> -Sam


I believe we did a dozen copies for friends. The turnaorund was 3-days.

*Note to everyone: All of my copies are gone and were spoken for before they were printed.

*


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## 4CRS

Just FYI: Animas River Days is auctioning off a brand new guide here: https://www.32auctions.com/organizations/31593/auctions/38083/auction_items/978442


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## Liquido

Read and Run Baby!!! 

It worked last year! Tight lines and Good Times everyone!


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## riverdoghenry

*I Don't Have A PDF Copy*



riverdoghenry said:


> @CSHolt,
> 
> To clarify, is the old Delores river guide no longer available and out-of-print? If so, *I have it and can probably scan it into a PDF and then some how share it. *It's fairly short and brief. I would suggest you order some waterproof printing paper from Amazon and have Kinkos color laser print it for you. I've done this with custom maps. Cheers!



I’m getting a lot of PM requesting a PDF version of the guidebook. *Sorry, but I do not have a PDF copy.
*
We had paid a copy center to scan and print a handful for our river group. Unfortunately, the employee misunderstood and deleted it from their computer after they were printed.

Thanks!


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## Andy H.

Hey folks, the two threads on "Dolores River Guide" were merged.


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## Electric-Mayhem

For what its worth, I'd be happy just getting a copy of the guide book to the people at Riverbrain.com so they could fill in the Dolores pages better. Not sure how easy that is compared to getting GPS waypoints and such. All they have on there right now is the Launch locations.

I'd throw a few bucks in for someone to take a book in to someplace to scan into a PDF too.


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## st2eelpot

I think I've got one around here somewhere. If I can find it, I'm happy to share.


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## mtnkasper

Hey friends!
Im looking for additional beta beyond the river guide.
Can folks suggest books, guides, websites, etc for on Dolores river corridor use? We're looking for explorations and learning of historically significant sites, indigenous sites, history, geology, etc? Thanks so much! I'd also be way open to pm's on things to explore (with the greatest of respect of course). Thanks people!

Mtnkasper


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## st2eelpot

*Montrose BLM field office*

Contact the Montrose, Colorado BLM office. Ask for Edd Franz or Rooster [River Rangers] (assuming they haven't been slashed with all the administrative changes). They can certainly point you in the right direction.

Cheers,
Dave


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## st2eelpot

I should have the Dolores river map in hand this coming Wednesday or so.


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## joshmunson

4CRS said:


> Dolores River Boating Advocates and RiverMaps LLC are happy to announce the new 2017 Interim Dolores River Guide!
> 
> This interim guide covers the 96 miles from Bradfield Recreation Area to Bedrock, including the location of over 130 potential camps identified over the years by the BLM river rangers. Because the Dolores River has not seen much use since 2011 many of these camps may be overgrown and difficult to easily identify. This interim guide includes observation made by DRBA and the BLM in 2016 related to the camps that we could identify and survey. This guide also includes the location of know rapids, other river features, directions to put-ins, and BLM requirements.
> 
> In the absence of an official waterproof Dolores River Guide, the Dolores River Boating Advocates (DRBA) in partnership with RiverMaps LLC and the Tres Rios BLM have created this interim guide. DRBA began the process of creating a new river guide during the 2016 river season when survey crews collected observations on camps and other features. RiverMaps LLC and DRBA’s goal is to produce an official waterproof guide for the entire Dolores River in time for the 2018 river season. Until that point, we hope that this guide will help you get down the river. This interim black and white, non-waterproof guide is printed on 8 ½ x 11 office paper and is stapled in the corner. Funds from sales of this temporary guide will go towards producing the official Dolores River Guidebook for 2018.
> 
> Order yours now at 4Corners Riversports! Guides will start shipping on no later than Monday, April 6th.
> 
> Order here:
> https://www.riversports.com/rs/product_detail/499/Dolores-River-Guide-for-2017-New-Slickrock-Bedrock






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## Jswell

*River info*

Planning on heading down and running Bradford to Slickrock over 2.5 days and looking for basic info, as the guidebook won't show up in time.

The BLM links I've found don't seem to be working. Can anyone layout the requirements for kayaks?

Fire pan needed even if no fire?
Human waste container, assuming yes
How about water? I know it's super silty below Gateway, how about this upper section? Filer/treat or are there other concerns?


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## BrianHolcombe

Hi folks, 

We just ordered a guide from 4 Corners. Stoked for the Dolores!

Question for you re: boat ramps. We're considering a time-compressed Slickrock trip next weekend, assuming flows are there. Is the Gypsum access open, or is the private Slickrock ramp the only option above Slickrock Canyon?

Cheers,

Brian


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## joshmunson

Brian, Glad you got the map!
Gyp is open.
Josh
DRBA VP


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## joshmunson

Jswell 
I believe the reqs are the same for all trips. Human wastes packed out, but wag bag work. No fire pan if you do not have an open fire. If you have a small bucket to settle water you could probably filter it. Because the river has not run for a while it is kicking up a lot of silt even on the upper end.
Josh


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## BrianHolcombe

joshmunson said:


> Brian, Glad you got the map!
> Gyp is open.
> Josh
> DRBA VP
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Mountain Buzz


Thanks Josh! Stoked for this weekend.

Brian


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## Jswell

joshmunson said:


> Jswell
> I believe the reqs are the same for all trips. Human wastes packed out, but wag bag work. No fire pan if you do not have an open fire. If you have a small bucket to settle water you could probably filter it. Because the river has not run for a while it is kicking up a lot of silt even on the upper end.
> Josh
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Mountain Buzz


Thanks for the info


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## tczues

I was wondering about collecting firewood ?


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## b.pi

tczues said:


> I was wondering about collecting firewood ?


Go for it, no regs against it from what I know. 

Also just to clarify, the only difference in regulations on the lower is that max group size from Big Gyp to Bedrock is 16 whereas all other sections are 25. Fire pan, strainer, groover, and dog feces collection are the other requirements everywhere.


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## 3d3vart

tczues said:


> I was wondering about collecting firewood ?


We just got off the Dolores (WSA stretch) yesterday. There is plenty of driftwood everywhere, especially in the lower canyon. Or burn some tamarisk. Places such as Coyote 3 show signs of recent Tammy removal, including large slash piles ripe for the burning (if you can handle the smell). 

But please bring your large fire blanket (or better yet, two) and use your required fire pan. No surprise, every camp we looked at (and we looked at many) was fairly to extremely overgrown, and the vegetation at ground level wasn't just new growth but the dried out stuff from last season as well. A misplaced ember could cause some havoc down there pretty quick, especially as all the low-lying veg dries up as the season progresses.


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## Hydrosquid

Troy at SW Raft and Jeep in Durango also has a few copies of the interim Dolores guidebook for sale- I picked one up yesterday. Thanks, DRBA!!


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