# Teenagers



## COUNT

What type of advice are you looking for? I might know some people who could be helpful, depending on the issues.

COUNT


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## holley

Hey Dani,

Feel free to PM me if you'd like.

Holley


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## Cutch

Just ask here or pm. I started paddling when I was young, with my dad as well. It can be a different experience.


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## Geezer

OK... call me a knitpicker but Dani posted on the Betty Buzz looking for info from other girls and already 2 guys are jumping right in to help out. I wonder if she wanted help from the general community if she would just have posted on the regular forum? Reading the description for the Betty Buzz would think it was a place for women/girls to get together and shoot the shit about boating. Just some random thoughts this morning. :?


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## sarahkonamojo

*For real?*

If you need advice you might be more specific.

Hope you are catching a little of the adenaline spirit yourself. If not, make sure you let your Dad know when you aren't comfortable on the river. It is supposed to be fun.

Sarah


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## WW Lush

Geezer- I think she is posting on this forum as it is more comfortable for her to post. The guys who post here are looking to help her out, expressing that they are open to her questions and concerns, which is not always the case on the main forum. I think women in general can benefit from both types of advice. 
I like having this forum open to men and women, as all the advice is beneficial- sometimes in a different way. 
Tina


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## gh

Well said Lush.


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## AdrenalineRush

haha, wow i feel popular.
well, actually my main problem is my roll, i can hit them perfectly the first few times, and then i just lose it. Any tips on it?


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## holley

Hey Dani,

Check out this webpage http://www.creativepursuits.net/kayaking.htm for some dryland tips. Mandy is a kayak instructor and a very smooth paddler. I'm not sure if she's on to Betty Buzz yet, but hopefully she will chime in here soon. I would never have thought a dryland exercise would help with a roll till I saw this. Watch those little videos next to each exercise.

In my experience...9 times out of 10, when a roll fails it is because the person is picking their head up too early and it throws them back down. Also, if you can open your eyes while under water to make sure your paddle blade is in the right position, you might find that helps. You don't want your paddle blade vertically slicing through the water, or diving way beneath the water's surface, and sometimes you won't know this is happening unless you see it.


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## AdrenalineRush

thanks a bunch. usually twisting my paddle is my problem, so ill have to try that.
which actually brings me to my next question. what do people think about kayaking with contacts in? cuz its a pain to deal with when they move around but if i dont have them in, then i cant tell what im gonna be gettin into, until im midway into it.


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## gh

i was upgraded to a newer pair of contacts recently and they are great when dry and horrible when wet. i had to buy a seperate box of acuvue II just for paddling. this brand is older and not that good for your eyes but they are great when wet and i just use them on a limited basis.


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## Anna Levesque

*Lots of good advice*

Hi Dani,

You're getting lots of good advice in the replies to your questions. It's true that usually when you start losing your roll it's because you're bringing your head up first. If you try to be conscious of looking at your right paddle blade (if your on-side roll is a right one) as you're coming up, and especially on your finish, it can help keep your head in the right position for a successful roll. 

I'm really psyched to hear about teenage girls getting into kayaking because it's such a great sport for confidence building.


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## yourrealdad

Dani, 
It looks like your in the FTC so when the mulberry pool sessions start up I would hit those up, there will be a lot of people there that will be kind enough to help you out. Also if you can pass for an 18 year old hit up the CSU sunday night roll sessions, all you need to do is pretend you are a CSU student and bring $5.


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## EP

I feel you with the contacts. I have paddled since I was 13, my parents taught me as well. I am blind and have had to wear contacts everyday I have paddled. They can be a little distracting especially if you are not used to them, but it is really nice to see when paddling. My pointers for rolling and paddling with contacts would be do not open your eyes! Start to learn spacing in your boat and underwater with your eyes closed. You can slide your hand down the shaft of your paddle and feel with your pinkie finger if your blade is in the correct position and roll from there. When paddling up right through waves I find it helpful to wipe my eyes with the top hand on my paddle in mid stroke. That way you never let go of your paddle, but you can clear your vision. Have fun with your dad, kayaking is an amazing activity to share with someone like your dad.
--Eleanor Perry


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## AdrenalineRush

how do you roll if your skirt comes up?


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## COUNT

It's a lot harder. I find it works best to really try and slow everything down A LOT because you have to allow time for the water in the boat to slosh to the bottom as you roll it up (if you do a quick and powerful hipsnap, it will get the boat most of the way up but then the weight of the water in the boat will knock you back over).

COUNT


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## AdrenalineRush

but wont waiting fill it just the same?


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## COUNT

It's not so much an issue of trying to roll before you have too much water in your boat. By the time you're upsidedown without your skirt on, keeping water out of your boat is the least of your concerns. If you rush, you will not get up. By taking it slow, you'll at least get up and be able to paddle to the side and empty your boat, which you will have to do anyways at this point.

D


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## ski_kayak365

Just a note on the contact problem. I've never been able to use contacts on the river, always glasses, which is scary if you hit a rock. A new type of contact has come out within the past year: Its a hard contact, you where it only at night. Due to the extra thickness of the contact, and depending on your eyes, it will reshape the cornia and allow for perfect vision thoughout the day. If you have really bad eyes, they will work only for the day, and you will have to wear the contacts everynight. But its worth asking your eye doctor about.

If contacts arn't working out, you can always go with glasses and a facemask, as was my prefrence.


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## holley

This is a wild guess, but I'm thinking if your skirt comes off when you go upside down, it's an outfitting problem and something you can fix. I have had the experience of being in a boat that is too big for me, and when went over I just fell out of the boat and my skirt peeled off the cockpit. It happened because I was sitting so deep in the boat, without good contact between my legs and the thigh braces. Then when I went over I could not keep my legs in the thigh braces or my butt on the seat, and practically fell out of the boat. If you can't keep contact with the boat when you are upside down, you have no control and can possibly just fall out.

I have also seen this happen with a couple of beginner girlfriends that started out in boats that were way too big for them. If this sounds like part of the problem, you can fix it by adding foam hip pads and padding up your thigh braces, maybe even a little bit on your seat. Or try a few different boats to get an idea of fit. A well-fitting boat can make a huge difference.


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## AdrenalineRush

my boat actually fits really well, i was just wondering about the loss of skirtage issue because my dad was saying that it can help to know how to roll it, just in case you accidentally pop your skirt in an area where you wouldnt really want to swim.

and RE: the hard contacts, do you know where you can get them or what breand? because that would be really nice, i dont really want to wear glasses just because of past facial injuries, i have a slight irrational fear about glass and rocks near my head.


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## COUNT

Here's the link to the earlier thread about this form of corrective contacts (with a link to the company's website):

http://www.mountainbuzz.com/viewtopic.php?t=8163&highlight=vision+correction

D


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## ski_kayak365

Try the site that Count gave (thanks Count, good choice), If not there, talk directly to your eye doctor. If they can't help you, they can refer you someplace that can. They arn't contacts that you just pick up and wear, most ppl have to have them set just right. It took me about 2 weeks to get used to them and get just the right angle to perfectly. The whole cost is a little expense, but well worth when you look at long term costs. starting is high, but its very little every year after. Plus it forces you to get a good night sleep or they wont work as well. 

I've had them for over a year, and its better than glasses or contacts. A good choice when your eyes arn't ready for surgury yet.

I think everyone has a slight fear about rocks and our heads - good reminder for always wearing a helmet


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## AdrenalineRush

thanks for the helmet advice (i should wear one at all times, not just on the river).
however, mine doesnt have a mask, and i would like to either modify so that it does, or get one that has a mask (mostly becuase I've already broken my cheekbone twice and am not really ready to repeat the experiance)
any tips?


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## holley

A mask isn't always the answer, and people have lots of differing opinions on whether or not it's the safest option. If you do a little searching on this site, you'll see several threads on the discussion. My advice to you as a beginner is to get in the habit of tucking when you go over..."kiss the deck". You can protect your face while you set up your roll by bending far forward and trying to get your face on the skirt. You'll have to think about it quite a lot when learning, but eventually it becomes 2nd nature.

Rocks are an issue in Colorado rivers, so it's wise to learn good habits as a beginner. It was a visit to the E-room and a heap of stitches on my face that convinced me to change _my_ technique...much better now.


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## ski_kayak365

Stay will Holley's advice for rolling. A facemask is a good idea, but not for replacing a well done roll. Kiss that deck and you never need to worry about a facemask. 

I use mine all the time, but the only time I've ever really used it is on low water play parks and class V tight creeking.


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## AdrenalineRush

im just wondering about a mask because i have a history of busting my face up pretty good...
but does it interfere in anyway?


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## kiwi up a tree

i started early to. my rollin tecknigue is to move my knees and hipps just a little earlyer than your paddle. fully try.

squal


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## holley

Hey Dani,

There have been several threads about this in the past, but of course I can only find two now. The ones I've linked below discuss the kinds of helmets that are available. In terms of interference, I think the things that have been brought up include hooking a face mask on an underwater obstacle (such as a tree branch) or sustaining neck injuries. I doubt, however, that it would impede your roll. I'm sure there are others that can offer a better explanation, and hopefully they will chime in. It is a good option to ponder, and there are pros and cons for helmets with and without facemasks. 


http://www.mountainbuzz.com/viewtopic.php?t=8473&highlight=face+mask

http://www.mountainbuzz.com/viewtopic.php?t=4992&highlight=face+mask

Holley


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## mrkyak

After running Ft Collins Kayak School for three years I'd suggest having a skilled instructor observe your roll and point out the bad habits your have developed. There are numerous areas which could be causing your difficulties: boat fit, grip on paddle, head up first, lack of hip snap, poor body motion (sweep or c to c roll?). Bad habits with rolling are hard to break and are guaranteed to provide you an unhappy river experience sooner or later. With good advice and practice you should be hand rolling in the pool by next spring.


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## AdrenalineRush

this summer we did the green though ladore, and i was working on my rolls with a bunch of fairly experianced kayakers, and I can hit my first one perfectly, and then none beyond that. but im starting to give up on paddle rolls (sweeps) since my hand roll is actually more reliable. anyone have advice on how to roll with just a hip snap? ive seen people do it, but cant manage to pull it off myself...


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## mrkyak

Your paddle is your best friend. Seek out an instructor for pool sessions this winter. Often too many cooks (experienced kayakers) can ruin the meal. If you are poor. I'd volunteer, if you can afford paying for one on one lessions, find a AWA certified instructor.


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## AdrenalineRush

I GOT MY ROLL! well, at least on one side. what other kind of rolls can you get? my hand roll (well, its actually more of a mad dog paddle) is stronger than my sweep. any ideas?


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## rhm

if you have a hand roll then you are probably just doing something wrong with your paddle when you miss your paddle roll. a hand roll takes a good hip snap or a good sweeping motion to perform depending on if you are doing a sweep handroll or a c to c handroll. if your handroll is strong you can start practicing a one handed handroll. if you are setting up on your left side, which is most common, just hold your paddle in your left hand up out of the water. then go through the handroll motion theat you are already doing with your right hand. this roll is usually taught to people who already have a good paddle roll, then when they miss the one handed hand roll they can grab their paddle and paddle roll if they miss. as for your question "what other kind of rolls can you get?" there are a ton of different rolls out there. you can do a roll from your back deck in a forward sweeping motion. in older displacement hull boats a hip snap only roll was a lot easier than in a lot of the newer planing hull boats. there is a roll that i only saw used once. after a friend missed his c to c roll about five times in a row i saw his paddle sticking way out of the water. he did the the red cross extended paddle roll. this is where you put one blade in your hand and then grab your paddle shaft in the middle somewhere with your other hand. this gives you a longer paddle and more leverage when bracing and snapping yourself upright. then there is the beer roll, or water bottle roll depending on your age. this is a hand roll. you take a drink, then as you tip over you set your drink on the bottom of your boat. then you reach around the other side of your boat and grab it with your other hand. then you do a one handed hand roll and take another drink when you are rightside up again. there was a video that i saw several years ago of a guy who had like fifty variations on the roll. hope this helps.


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## AdrenalineRush

thanks a bunch! sounds good...my dad was trying to teach me a back roll but i was confused outta my mind.


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## rhm

check out youtube. search for kayak roll. there are a bunch of different videos of people rolling. i was a visual learner when i was learning to roll. i was taught what to do, and was going through the motions that were taught to me. i was able to roll just fine, but did not really understand why it all worked. then i saw a video shot from under water of someone rolling. this is when it all clicked and i understood why it worked. this really helped my roll a lot. it may help yours too. there are some videos of chris spelius that are actual instruction videos. a lot of them are just people rolling with no explanation.


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## AdrenalineRush

thats a really good idea...thanks a bunch.

and totally random question...but how many boats can you conceivably fit on the top of a toyota 4runner?


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## COUNT

I've moved 16 with my '95 Subaru Legacy. 11 on the roof, 1 in the trunk, 1 in the passenger seat, 1 in the back seat (sticking out both windows), 1 tied to the trunk, and 1 strapped to the hood. It was sick!!! I'll post pics when I get them.

COUNT


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## AdrenalineRush

16?!
wow.
how'd you manage 11 on the roof??


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## COUNT

We had 5 creekers on the bottom (we had a person holding the one on the end as we put straps around them). Then we added a second layer of six boats going crosswise on top of those. I'm pretty sure I can do more, too.

COUNT


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## AdrenalineRush

i am in awe
but more than 16?? wow


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## rhm

did you drive down the road with all that, or was this just for fun. if you took a picture, i would love to see it.


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## COUNT

We did drive around like that. Actually, as we were backing out, a cop came by because someone had reported something about all the commotion going on :shock:. He looked at the 11 boats on the roof, 3 boats in the car, 1 boat on the trunk, 1 boat on the hood, helped us back out, told us to drive slowly, and wished us luck   . I didn't have my camera but there is photo evidence of this. As soon as I get the pics, I will post them.

COUNT


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## COUNT

Deserving of a new topic: For pics, scoring, and story, see

http://www.mountainbuzz.com/viewtopic.php?p=57807#57807

COUNT


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## freexbiker

Ya the link dont work for me
id like to this sh#t though


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## freexbiker

oh sorry for bringing up a really old post i just looked at the dates
sorry


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## COUNT

Since it was a good thread (in my humble opinion  ):

http://www.mountainbuzz.com/forums/f11/the-art-of-strappage-11465.html

The Count


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