# Grand questions



## Sleepless (Sep 8, 2011)

Hey, all!

Headed down the Grand on May 3rd and being my first time I have some questions. 

1-Weather:
I haven't been able to pull up much on this besides the wind. Will it be hot as Hades, cold at night, lots of rain or all of the above?

2-favourite guide book?

3-Spares:
I know to pack extraSunglasses, hats, back up whiskey and the likes. I'm wondering about thinks like oar towers, locks, ect. Just a thought but unsure given my tendency to over pack. 

4-Beers:
Yep, I like'em. Gonna bring a bunch of'em. I usually just pack'em in my Everthing Bag. I want to get a few cases up in the front to shift weight forward. What's the best way to stow them so they don't go swimming if/when I flip? 

5-What else:
I've looked at 20 pages of past Grand threads but Im sure there is so much I'm not anticipating. What advise can you offer? What did you learn? What did you wish you had brought along? 

6-Thanking the TL/permit holder:
Must be a ton of work and lots of stress gettin a trip like this together. I'm sure he will read this so... Thank you, brother.


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## 2tomcat2 (May 27, 2012)

1) Likely all of the above. Warm base layer, wind/rain protection should see you through...tendency to get cold? Warm hat, neoprene gloves and booties or synthetic socks to wear with sandals...Mother Nature always prevails

2) Belknap's, "The Colorado River in Grand Canyon by Larry Stevens, "Colorado River Briefs by Lindemann

3) allen wrench

4) enjoy!

5) bandanas (for everything), wet wipes (or enjoy bathing in the silt), biners, straps, duct tape; wash and moisturize feet to avoid river crud. 

6) if TL is open to delegating, be available to do whatever, especially after the trip for cleaning equipment, etc.

Here's to a great Grand trip. Say "yes" to everything the Canyon has to offer, stay well (hydrated!) and pay it forward.


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## caverdan (Aug 27, 2004)

For guide books I would recommend Tom Martin and Duwain Whitis "Guide to the Colorado River in the Grand Canyon Lees Ferry to South Cave" along with Tom Martin's book "Day Hikes from the River". Both are excellent resources this Topo's and a ton of places to camp and see in them.

As for extra beer...I'd put it in a dry bag and hide it till you need it.


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## mrkyak (Jul 11, 2005)

Tom Martins river map is spot on with his suggested routes through the rapids. At 13-16K upset and 209 rapid are really really big.
Oaring into the wind for days on end is a right of passage, just don't let it be your your ticket to rotator cuff damage. I prefer a cat over a raft for handling wind, it lets wind pass underneath between the tubes. Either way take care of your back and shoulders or you'll end up a passenger.
Mind your finger tips, wear some type of glove that allows you to rig and handle cam straps and have a second pair. Once you have taped up thumbs and index fingers it's almost impossible to operate cam straps.
Fern Glenn has the nicest 1/4 mile long beach.
Have a grand time!


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## briandburns (Jan 12, 2010)

Sleepless said:


> 5-What else:
> I've looked at 20 pages of past Grand threads but Im sure there is so much I'm not anticipating. What advise can you offer? What did you learn? What did you wish you had brought along?



A product like "Skin Shield" liquid bandage is good to have along to help repair the cracks that open up at your fingertips from all the dry air and rigging chores. Some rafters use Super Glue for this, but the Skin Shield is also an antiseptic. Probably a little healthier...


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## tmacc (Sep 6, 2009)

We launched 5/8 in '09 and it was 105* at Phantom that day. The whole trip was hot. Only rained on one evening on day 15, but as other have mentioned, bring a extra layer or two.

Double ditto Martin-Whitis guide book for sure. Someone on MB suggested to bring two because they lost theirs in rapid or something. We put ours in one of those clears plastic ziploc map pockets that has d-rings on it. We then put a 'biner and a small loop strap that makes it easy to read w/o un-clipping it. We get the map pockets at REI. Liddemann's is a good guide too. Belknap not so much IMO.

Get a cheap military duffle bag at a surplus store to put your spare beer in. The Chinese/Korean ones are made of a heavy nylon material. Prolly $10. 

Get a plastic deadblow hammer (Home Depot) for smashing cans. Way more comfortable than using a rock. Get a feed bag ($2) from a farm supply store to put you smashed cans in so they don't puncture something. BTW we rinse the beer cans before smashing. Our friend brings an old NRS Bill's Bag to put the feed sack w/ the cans in and by the end of the trip it gets a little rank if you don't rinse. 

I've rowed our 18' cat and a 18' Sotar raft and they're both real pigs to row in the wind. on our first trip, got a whole 3 miles one day before calling it quits. 

Have a blast. We launch on 9/18.


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## peak (Apr 7, 2006)

leather gloves and tegaderm...prescription pain killers just in case. antibiotics?


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## Faucet Butt (May 11, 2008)

Bring two spare oar locks.

Electrolyte replacement drinks:emer-genC or gatorade...I like to have plenty of salty snacks to munch on during the day like smoked almonds or such.

Bring a decent day pack for some of the longer hikes you might do. 

On rig/derig days if its super hot you might want to have a pair of elk skin gloves for handling frames and general rig work... I like em for rowing too.

Good headlamp w/spare batteries plus an extra back up light.

Guides- I usually bring the Stevens guide- I have an old Lindeman guide I like cause it has notes of past trips and lines at various levels...

Plenty of rope-some of the camp tie-offs are far away- and for places like Havazoo if you stop there...

A good insulated mug for preserving the ice in your cocktail.

*Cooler maintenance: pretty crucial topic- be sure to drain/maintain coolers. Consolidate when you can-a full cooler is much more efficient than one that's not. Try to buy good ice-not the airated crap that most places sell- get solid ice-it'll last much longer. Also, pick up some bulap sacks to keep wet and keep on top of coolers for convective cooling. Try to bury your coolers with pacos over them. I like to double insulate my coolers with closed-cell foam-like having a cooler within a cooler w/foam on top too for a better seal. 
*There are several threads on this topic on here-worth a read.

Good chair.

Extra chacos-you never know when you'll blow out.

Clothing: bring a little of everything-hot, cold, rainy, in-between...

Beer cuzzy.


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## rehamxela (Jul 20, 2008)

20 mil ammo can holds like 52 or 54 beers and protects better than a dry bag! also ammo can is great for extra trash after you drink the beer!


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## rr28 (Apr 20, 2009)

*Beer storage*

For beer storage, we ended up using feed sacks from the local Ag. Co-op store. Put a 12 pack in each sack duck tape it closed and store it in the bottom of your everything bag. We ended up using the empty sacks for recycling throughout the trip. Enjoy...


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## 86304 (Apr 15, 2008)

get all your gear out and make sure it works right. fix, clean and lube everything.

get your chemistry (repair) kit out and glue down any loose d-ring patches, corners, etc. play with it. make sure it works.
(i just got mine out to do the same, only to find that my new glue, purchased 6 weeks ago, was bad. better to find out 2 weeks before launch than on a beach below House Rock)

get yourself ready. doing daily pushups and situps for 3 months before a grand trip are a pain but so are pulled muscles. get your hands ready, too. for a week or 2 before the launch, i start lubing up the hands with lotion before bed. (prefer neutrogena hand cream myself) and take plenty with you. (bag balm is also good)

beverage rule of thumb - 1 six-pack per person per day.
throw a couple rows of duct tape around the 12-packs to hold them together when they get wet.

bob


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## carvedog (May 11, 2005)

black light to scare yourself with the scorps at night. 

2nd on the leather gloves for rigging or carrying kitchen box or coolers anything like that. 

I never had any problems with my hands or feet cracking but I had come off a summer of guiding. Actually it seems like I did do some bag balm and socks on my feet a couple of times.

A bucket. Even with a bailer or a cat. To throw water to cool it down and to keep the cooler wet.


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## Tom Martin (Dec 5, 2004)

You might find the Rafting Grand Canyon WIKI site helpful. It is here:Rafting Grand Canyon

Have a GREAT trip! Yours, tom


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## mtriverrat (Jan 29, 2012)

Super glue and Burt's Bees hand salve. You'll thank me later. Spare camera battery too.


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## Sleepless (Sep 8, 2011)

carvedog said:


> black light to scare yourself with the scorps at night.
> 
> 2nd on the leather gloves for rigging or carrying kitchen box or coolers anything like that.
> 
> ...


I'll skip the black light! I don't even want to know! Had a baby rattler in camp on our Hell's Canyon trip last year. Was a day when everyone but us cooking got "weird" so it was interesting. I'll drink some whiskey for you Carvedog!

Tmacc- I love the millitary bag idea! Sold! Thank you!


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## tmacc (Sep 6, 2009)

Sleepless said:


> Tmacc- I love the millitary bag idea! Sold! Thank you!


Shoot! I love 86304's idea of duct taping the cans together. Brilliant! Although it could be a recycling issue at the end of the the trip. Dale's Pale Ale puts the plastic 6-pack holder about a third of the way down the can, so they don't flop around as much.

One more thing. The water temp at Lees Ferry is friggin' freezing when you're wading in to rig your boat. I got some tall easy pull-on type HD rubber/neoprene boots to wear at the the ramp for our Sept launch. Bogs is the mfr. I think there's a brand called Mucks as well. Similar design.

The wiki site Tom Martin mentioned has some good stuff and www.stupidguidetricks.com has some good tips too.


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## mrkyak (Jul 11, 2005)

Hey,new rule, no more catch and release. It's feast on trout time. Don't forget
Your pole, flys,spinners,eggs and lemon.


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## 2tomcat2 (May 27, 2012)

2 more book suggestions: 

"Ammo Can Interp", Shane Murphy with Gaylord Stavely (from Canyoneers)

Nothing to do with rapids...great flora book, "River and Desert Plants of the Grand Canyon", Kristin Huisinga (TL 2007!), Lori Makarick, Kate Watters (forward by Ann Zwinger


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## caverdan (Aug 27, 2004)

One thing I throw is a wrap kit with enough climbing gear to ascend and descend rope. In my kit, I have 200 feet of static 11 mil. caving rope along with a wall hauler and 4 or 5 pulleys, 1 steel and several locking carabiners and a rescue 8. 

On top of that, I put in my caving harness, croll, upper ascender with foot loop, cows tail and a micro rack. The chest harness I make with a cam strap. This system is called a frog climbing system. 

What I'm describing is not for lead climbing, but more for setting a rope above something and going down to it, or come up from below. For you rock climbers, your gear bag will be different than mine.

Stick it all in a clear dry bag so you can see it it gets wet inside during the trip. I use two small ones. One for the wrap kit and one for my climbing gear.

Enjoy and have fun.


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## Randaddy (Jun 8, 2007)

Sleepless said:


> 3-Spares:
> I know to pack extraSunglasses, hats, back up whiskey and the likes. I'm wondering about thinks like oar towers, locks, ect. Just a thought but unsure given my tendency to over pack.
> 
> 4-Beers:
> Yep, I like'em. Gonna bring a bunch of'em. I usually just pack'em in my Everthing Bag. I want to get a few cases up in the front to shift weight forward. What's the best way to stow them so they don't go swimming if/when I flip?


#3 - I would bring two towers and two locks, though it's unlikely you'll need even one. The reason, they fit in a repair ammo can easily and someone else in the group might need one. Also bring a good frame repair kit. Mine includes a hack saw, hand drill, pliers, extra pins and set screws, wire, etc. Basically bring everything you'll need to fix a mangled frame if a boat were to pin and bend the frame. There are more rocks every year and they aren't exactly releasing huge water right now to cover them up. This is pretty inexpensive catastrophe insurance and is a great companion to your broach/pin kit.

#4 - Most 12 packs of cans fit perfectly into the white woven poly rice bags that your local hardware store sells. Two of those fit perfectly into a milk crate. I put grommets around some PVC cloth to make a top for the milk crates and zip-tied them shut. They're super easy to rig and stack. When you open a case, put the beers in your drag bag and use the two rice bags for the crushed, empty cans in camp that day. Re-ziptie the lids back on and rig right where they have been the whole trip. You'll end up carrying more than your share of recycling for the trip that way and won't lose your beer or waste a drybag on it!

You'll notice that both of my suggestions have an element of "what's best for the group?" in them. I would suggest bringing simple personal equipment (I always regret bringing the extra clothes and "just in case" items) and planning on carrying and helping your group however you can. Your comprehensive raft/frame repair kit, your ability to carry lots of trash and recycling, and your commitment to doing just a little bit more than your share will help your group have a much better trip! If I had any other suggestion it would be to know the regulations well and to make sure that your contributions are absolutely within NPS rules and that you aren't the cause of trouble at Lee's Ferry because your groover/first aid/fire pan aren't to code.

Have a great trip!


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## Randaddy (Jun 8, 2007)

Oh, I almost forgot - hand care. A small metal bucket will allow you to heat some clean water for washing up whenever you want. Bring a ton of bandaids and first aid tape, plenty of Dr Braunner's, and keep hand and foot wounds clean daily. 

Also forget hand salve or lotion. Bring pure lanolin. You can buy it at Natural Grocers and it's worth every penny.


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## Sleepless (Sep 8, 2011)

tmacc said:


> Shoot! I love 86304's idea of duct taping the cans together. Brilliant! Although it could be a recycling issue at the end of the the trip. Dale's Pale Ale puts the plastic 6-pack holder about a third of the way down the can, so they don't flop around as much.
> 
> One more thing. The water temp at Lees Ferry is friggin' freezing when you're wading in to rig your boat. I got some tall easy pull-on type HD rubber/neoprene boots to wear at the the ramp for our Sept launch. Bogs is the mfr. I think there's a brand called Mucks as well. Similar design.
> 
> The wiki site Tom Martin mentioned has some good stuff and Stupid Guide Tricks Home Page has some good tips too.


Gonna duck them up before they go in duffle!

Thanks for the Bogs info! Have been looking at Muck boot but thanks to your suggestion I found a sweet pair for 50% off. Love saving money!


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## wildsoles (Feb 20, 2013)

Little things I consider critical:
- cap keeper for the wind (hard to catch a hat when it blows off at the top of the rapid and you have oars in your hands and laterals coming at you)
- liquid bandage
- spares: headlamp, river shoes, sunglasses
- pee bucket (way easier than stumbling to the river in the middle of the night)
- rapid map book (the one that shows you the routes through)
- sense of humor


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## OregonianRG (Jun 14, 2010)

Anti Fungal cream for crotch rot and or foot rot. spare batteries and light bulbs. There is a good tight left run at Upset.


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