# Question about Holes



## kayakfreakus (Mar 3, 2006)

I thought this thread was pretty good:

http://www.mountainbuzz.com/forums/f11/scouting-reading-holes-24299.html

I think Horseshoe is a pretty sticky hole, so I have to agree with your friends ratings. Dodging/Punching/Boofing holes is a pretty necessary skill on the river so as you progress you get to experience more and come up with several ways of trying to deal with it. 

Deckers would be a good section if your comfortable on the filter plant, also the Upper C.


----------



## rockinRio (Jul 3, 2006)

Hit a play park. Head to Golden or Lyons. Don't be timid. Get into a hole on purpose try to surf and learn how to get out. Play boating is the fastest way to get comfortable in features, also great roll practice.


----------



## Jensjustduckie (Jun 29, 2007)

Are Horseshoe hole and Red House Hole the same Hole?


----------



## kayakfreakus (Mar 3, 2006)

No, horseshoe is up on lower mish, red house is on bridges.


----------



## esingleton56 (May 31, 2009)

*Horseshoe v. Red House*

I have never done bridges out of fear of killer bridge. How does horseshoe compare to red house/ the holes in bridges? Do people consider bridges a safer run than lower mish? The 100 yards or so leading up to horseshoe is the only part of lower mish that has given me any kinds of problems. 

And is horseshoe considered a dreaded frowning hole?
And could my traumatic experience be because this is an especially bad hole/place to go for a swim? I hear raft companies call this area "the quarter mile of chaos" b/c they have issues there?


----------



## kayakfreakus (Mar 3, 2006)

Lots of talk of Poudre holes lately.....

http://www.mountainbuzz.com/forums/f11/red-house-hole-poudre-river-26231.html

I think for both of the holes if you are on your line your fine, I ran bridges before I ever went above Pineview. I think Bridges is a little more continuous than lower, not sure I would give either a safer than the other rating. Most beginners seem to like lower better.

I think the best advice is from rockinRio - go to a park, get comfortable in a hole - that's the best case scenario so you can think clearly when stuck and not intentional.


----------



## esingleton56 (May 31, 2009)

*Holes Holes and More Holes*

What about water level. Are horseshoe and redhouse still sticky as the water goes down?


----------



## GoodTimes (Mar 9, 2006)

esingleton56 said:


> What about water level. Are horseshoe and redhouse still sticky as the water goes down?


No....redhouse really loses it's "stickiness"....horseshoe still kinda has some bite but becomes much easier to avoid (but a few rocks pop out that make it a little more technical).

I'd say Horseshoe is a little more intimidating and an uglier hole than redhouse at most flows......although when the lil' poudre gets above 4.5 or so.....redhouse gets fugly.


----------



## BrianK (Feb 3, 2005)

they are less sticky as the water goes down. For a while just go around those holes and work on boofing, surfing, and dealing with smaller holes. Those are two of the worst holes on the stevens down stretch, just learn where they are and avoid them. Below 3 feet they definitley get a lot less sticky. 

I think lower mish might be a tad easier to survive for a beginner boater, but bridges is more fun and has a more variety of features including lots of good places for a beginner to practice surfing and other playboating. Just get around killer bridge and don't go into red house and you'll be fine.

Also red house is scary because it will surf a person without a boat for a while, whereas I think horseshoe is flushier for a body.


----------



## rockinRio (Jul 3, 2006)

FYI AW has a photo of horseshoe.

American Whitewater - NWRI - Cache La Poudre 07. Mishiwaka Inn to Poudre Park Picnic Ground

I wasn't sure which feature was horseshoe until I looked it up.

I think Horseshoe looks and feels bigger, but Red House is more sticky. Just my opinion. My buddy and I always hit the meat of Horseshoe, we get squirted, and I usually end up upside down but flush just fine. I'd say 3.7 and below you can boof center right, otherwise there isn't a boof and you ride the tongue into the hole. Also you can go far right to miss the hole. I don't ever remember going left so don't know what that looks like.


----------



## Jay H (May 20, 2005)

First, congratulations on stepping it up! Remember that there are good days on the river and then there are not so good days on the river, and they all add to your learning and ability. And the play park advice others have mentioned is a must...

I don't know about anyone else, and I'm certainly not the best at reading water, but I find that scouting as many different rapids/holes as you can helps a lot. Scout out stuff that's harder than would run right now, as close to river/boater eye level as you can, from both downstream and upstream, and visualize your line through the rapid. Holes are almost always hidden behind a dome or bulge in the water as seen from upstream at boater level, then dropping off precipitously behind the dome. The more familiarity you get by seeing a variety of holes from different perspectives helps you recognize where to go and not to go as you read and run more difficult water.

If you do get in a hole, try to work your way to one shoulder or the other with forward or back strokes, bracing in the foam pile.

and if you get windowshaded in the hole, usually just lifting (lowering?) your paddle to about chest height a lot of times will allow a paddle blade to catch the green water underneath and allow you to roll up in the hole for another attemp to work your way out--so don't immediately give up when you flip in the hole

also, the Nealy book is an amazing resource for understand rapids behavior and characteristics.

this is just my $.02, but I've been in my share of holes and it has worked pretty well for me. others may have different techniques

Idaho spings town run is a good, fairly continuous run that you might also try as a moderate step up


----------



## esingleton56 (May 31, 2009)

I really appreciate all this great info. Never would have thought to hit a play park b/c I thought they were only for "good" kayakers, whichj I do not consider myself one. Also where are Upper C and Deckers based on eddyflowers listings. I know they are on the Colorado and South Platte but I'm not sure what put in/take out to use?

Thanks again,
Evan


----------



## Jay H (May 20, 2005)

esingleton56 said:


> I really appreciate all this great info. Never would have thought to hit a play park b/c I thought they were only for "good" kayakers, whichj I do not consider myself one. Also where are Upper C and Deckers based on eddyflowers listings. I know they are on the Colorado and South Platte but I'm not sure what put in/take out to use?


 
If you don't already have these, get copies of Colorado Rivers and Creeks, and Whitewater of the Southern Rockies--great reading and they have all the beta for most any runs you can think of...


----------

