# Main Salmon campsite reservations Survey



## Whetstone (May 17, 2013)

The USFS is considering increasing the number of camps on the Main Salmon that can be reserved. Currently only certain sites in the wilderness section of the river are reservable. The Idea is to go to closer to 100% reservable sites like the Middle Fork is. Your input is being sought to help with that decision. I am not taking a stand for or against more camps being reserved. I would be interested to hear your thoughts but either way you all might want to take the survey so your vote is counted.

Link can be found on Cascade Outfitters FB page: https://www.facebook.com/CascadeOutfitters


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## cain (Dec 28, 2011)

Would this mean no more layover days on the main?


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## Whetstone (May 17, 2013)

Here is the link to the Survey: https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/campsitesMS

I am uncertain about how that would impact layovers. I suspect it would be like the MFS where layovers are hard during peak season but I just dont know. I have yet to find a source for info on what the actual plan would be.


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## Sembob (Feb 27, 2014)

I for one like the idea. At least with the largest desirable camps. Peace of mind IMO. 


Jim


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## Whetstone (May 17, 2013)

I just emailed the USFS to see if I can get any info on the survey, it's motivation and intent. I will be shocked if I hear back but thought it might be interesting to inquire. If i hear back I will share here.


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## cataraftgirl (Jun 5, 2009)

We rarely ever use reserved camps, do layovers on every trip, and always have a small group. Not sure I'd want to change things in a way that would prevent us from doing 1-2 layovers per trip. That would suck big time! I do understand the peace of mind thing though.


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## restrac2000 (Mar 6, 2008)

cataraftgirl said:


> We rarely ever use reserved camps, do layovers on every trip, and always have a small group. Not sure I'd want to change things in a way that would prevent us from doing 1-2 layovers per trip. That would suck big time! I do understand the peace of mind thing though.


I agree with this. I think the current hybrid system is the best of both worlds. Those who want peace of mind can often get most camps reserved ahead while those of us who like to lay over and have some freedom can mix it up. 

I know why the system exists on the MFS but the one time I was on a trip I found the system a bit stifling. Part of what I love about the river experience is being able to float on river time and make decisions with the information presented at hand. There aren't too many other occasions in life with that type of freedom and thoroughly enjoy that privilege. 

I hate that so much is filtered through FaceBook now. I deleted my account 1.5 years ago because I didn't like so many facets and one was data collection. Is there a direct link to a survey that isn't directed through social media?


Phillip


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## Sembob (Feb 27, 2014)

cataraftgirl said:


> We rarely ever use reserved camps, do layovers on every trip, and always have a small group. Not sure I'd want to change things in a way that would prevent us from doing 1-2 layovers per trip. That would suck big time! I do understand the peace of mind thing though.



I agree about the layover thing although I have never done one but do see the worth in them. 
Things get more complicated with bigger groups. I am only in favor of reserved camps that will accommodate large groups. And I personally feel that the larger more desirable camps should not be used for layovers. If that means that large groups don't get to layover so be it. 


Jim


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## Whetstone (May 17, 2013)

restrac2000 said:


> I hate that so much is filtered through FaceBook now. I deleted my account 1.5 years ago because I didn't like so many facets and one was data collection. Is there a direct link to a survey that isn't directed through social media?
> 
> 
> Phillip


Phillip,
Here is the Link: https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/campsitesMS I agree with you on the Facebook thing. That just was where it was sent to me from originally. I also agree with you on the hybrid system.


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## restrac2000 (Mar 6, 2008)

Thanks for the link. The one benefit to social media is it can get the word out faster. 

Phillip


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## Sleepless (Sep 8, 2011)

Multi day trips without a layover are incomplete in my circle. Not trying to tell anyone else how they should do their trips but if I'm on the water for a week I want a day that I'm not rigging and a night that I can relax and get into my cooler a bit more. 

I'm not a huge fan of assigned campsites. It seems that someone else always makes a mistake and now my group either must share our site with your odd ball group or try and figure out what isn't reserved ahead of us. If no one cheats or messes up then then I guess they are ok. I do enjoy the on the fly planning that comes with long multidays and open camping though. Some days you feel like being on the water longer. Some days you can't wait to get of the water or really need to get off the water. That's part of the freedom of rafting. I understand permitting rivers to avoid over use but lets not over think things and dictate how others have to spend their time on their trips. 

My two cents


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## cataraftgirl (Jun 5, 2009)

Almost all of the most desirable, large group sites are already reserve camps. Is the goal of this change to extend the reserve status to the desirable camps of all sizes? Is the goal to eliminate layovers? The reserve ahead, peace of mind thing seems to apply more to larger groups, than to small groups. Commercial outfitters are rarely in the small camp category, so they are already using the large reservable camps for the most part. Is the goal to eliminate any conflicts between those of us who understand the concept of "first come first served" and those who don't?

As for the Middle Fork. We run this almost exclusively in the post season, when layovers are allowed. Even in the fall, we rarely get out first choice of camps every night. Several of our favorites go to outfitters and larger groups. The last few years, on an 8 day MF trip, we get about 50-75% of our first choice camps. But most of the camps on the MF are great regardless, so it's no biggie.

Losing the ability to layover on either the MF or the Main Salmon would bum us out quite a bit. Layovers are an important aspect of our trips.


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## Whetstone (May 17, 2013)

Ill call the Salmon Challis ranger station tomorrow and see what I can find out. I dont think there is any cause for concern without further info. I must admit that at first I didnt think more inclusive reservation system sounded so bad but having heard the concerns here about layovers and flexibility, I am rethinking things.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Mountain Buzz mobile app


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## cmharris (Apr 30, 2013)

*Doesn*

Interesting. This doesn't look like a Forest Service sponsored questionnaire. I don't know what the objective is, or who is behind this, but it looks more like a private interest petition which will/may be presented to the FS to promote change. I don't see a link on any FS website encouraging input. I could be wrong but something isn't right here. Just speculation, of course. We will see.


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## Whetstone (May 17, 2013)

cmharris said:


> Interesting. This doesn't look like a Forest Service sponsored questionnaire.


I think your are right. I spoke with Donna at the Middle fork office today and showed her the survey. She said she was unaware of it and that it did not look like something from FS. I then called Larry, the Main Salmon Manager and left a message for him. Have not heard back yet. 

Who outside the FS would have an agenda that might benefit from a survey like this? Commercial Outfitters Groups/Organizations? Just curious! It does not seem mischievous.


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## Whetstone (May 17, 2013)

OK, Just off the Phone with Larry from USFS Main Salmon office. It is not a FS survey. It appears to be a third party survey put out in prep for the upcoming USFS/IOGA meeting scheduled for next week. Larry says that the Campsite reservation issue is a point of discussion at every meeting and that he is not surprised by the survey and it's timing. He was very curious to hear my feelings on the matter and welcomes input from all private boaters any time you want to call and chat with him. Super nice guy. PM me if you need his direct phone #.


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