# Advice on Middle Fork Salmon (RIVER DOG)



## deeptraxx (Feb 28, 2011)

Hey everyone, can anyone give me (SERIOUS), advice on whether or not I should bring my 6 year old Black lab (REALLY IN GREAT SHAPE)
AND great swimmer!! 
He has been on 20+ multi day floats with class 3/4/5 rapid rivers and for some reason likes to swim the rapids if I let him and has never had problems except 1 time he chased a PBR CAN of BEER threw a class 4 (cant remember the rapid name) on the Main Salomon, and went under and came out with it in his mouth, NOT wearing his life jacket!!! since we were at camp.
(ABSOLUTLY NOT JOKING)!!!! 
swam to shore and was just fine.(just a little winded as was I because I chased him barefoot down the cobble stone beach and dam near broke my ankle going after him. He has a very high end life jacket that works great!
I very much understand there are always risks, that being said... we do have seven boats and one safety kayaker. Any and all advice and thoughts are very much appreciated. Thanks everyone!!

Launch date on the Middle Fork Salmon is July 6th, take out July 13th.
water flows should be around 4+ maybe 5.


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## shappattack (Jul 17, 2008)

As a preface, I love dogs, currently have 2 dogs, we take them on many river trips. I have also done the MF Salmon. 


I would not personally take my dogs on the MF Salmon, no matter how much boating the dogs have done. Not for risk factor per say, but for a lot of various reasons. About the only exception is if I was doing a late season trip to hunt chukar and wanted to bring a chukar dog.


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## Whitewater Worthy Equip (Dec 11, 2013)

May 22 trip with a peak at 8'. Flew in to IC. Keep them in the boat.

Photo was at camp...yes they wear CFD's. We carry the EZ dog brand and have all sizes in stock. 

QUOTE=deeptraxx;571505]Hey everyone, can anyone give me (SERIOUS), advice on whether or not I should bring my 6 year old Black lab (REALLY IN GREAT SHAPE)
AND great swimmer!! 
He has been on 20+ multi day floats with class 3/4/5 rapid rivers and for some reason likes to swim the rapids if I let him and has never had problems except 1 time he chased a PBR CAN of BEER threw a class 4 (cant remember the rapid name) on the Main Salomon, and went under and came out with it in his mouth, NOT wearing his life jacket!!! since we were at camp.
(ABSOLUTLY NOT JOKING)!!!! 
swam to shore and was just fine.(just a little winded as was I because I chased him barefoot down the cobble stone beach and dam near broke my ankle going after him. He has a very high end life jacket that works great!
I very much understand there are always risks, that being said... we do have seven boats and one safety kayaker. Any and all advice and thoughts are very much appreciated. Thanks everyone!!

Launch date on the Middle Fork Salmon is July 6th, take out July 13th.
water flows should be around 4+ maybe 5.[/QUOTE]


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## deeptraxx (Feb 28, 2011)

forgot to add photo of my rig, if helps the advice. 16'Hyside. 5 bay frame.


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## deeptraxx (Feb 28, 2011)

shappattack said:


> As a preface, I love dogs, currently have 2 dogs, we take them on many river trips. I have also done the MF Salmon.
> 
> 
> I would not personally take my dogs on the MF Salmon, no matter how much boating the dogs have done. Not for risk factor per say, but for a lot of various reasons. About the only exception is if I was doing a late season trip to hunt chukar and wanted to bring a chukar dog.


If not the risk factor then WHAT "VARIOUS REASONS"
this doesn't help me make a decision at all!!!


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## cmharris (Apr 30, 2013)

*Dogs*

Our dog has been down twice. He stays in the boat and is always with either me or my wife on the front seat through the rapids. Upon arrival at camp, I check for snakes. He had his rattlesnake vaccine last Saturday. Our tent is just large enough for 3 pacos, 90 inches wide, so we all sleep safe and comfortable. I have a sand mat. We don't let him wander. He does what we tell him, most of the time. We only take him on lower water trips. I have done some solo Deschutes trips with him but I know that river pretty well. We are careful but there is always some risk and added complexity. So far, so good.


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## shappattack (Jul 17, 2008)

deeptraxx said:


> If not the risk factor then WHAT "VARIOUS REASONS"
> this doesn't help me make a decision at all!!!


thats a lot of !!!

You asked whether or not you should bring your dog, I said I wouldn't. You didn't ask for a detailed list of reasons. I bet you are going to do what you want anyway regardless of input based on all the info you initially provided about what you have done with your dog in the past. 

Some reasons not to bring your dog on the MF Salmon:

The river is highly regulated, a lot of people don't like dogs and you will interact with other groups on the river, and potentially encounter other folks that pass your camp on the trail, there could be horses/pack stock coming down the trail behind your camp, how does your dog do with horses? How does your dog do with snakes? You have already commented a bunch on how bad ass your dog is if it swims, so I don't think any reasons about dogs coming out of the boat in significant-long-complex rapids is going to resinate with your brain. Have you asked your other group members what they think about bringing your dog, what if your dog does get get out of the boat in a big rapid and causes the group to have to take significant/risky measures to save? Is your dog under 100% voice command control even in tense/chaotic situations? 

Again, I have owned dogs my entire life and they accompany us on many of our trips. I would leave my dog at home for a MF Salmon trip. Do what you want, but remember, your actions can impact other peoples experience, not just your dogs safety. 

And just for proof that I infact do have dogs and bring them on many rivers, such as the Main Salmon, Lower Salmon, lower Owyhee, John Day, NF John Day, Wallowa/Grande Ronde, and Deschutes:


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## Crazy Beaver (Mar 31, 2012)

I launch two days before you for the third year in a row. 4ft and above is serious water and I would be hesitant to take a dog on this trip because of the amount of boulders in the river and how long they could potentially be exposed to the water for. 2-3ft would be perfect for a dog. 


Sent from my iPhone using Mountain Buzz


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## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

I would not. We take our dogs down the MFS at 2-3.5 feet. With only 1 dog I'd go up to 4', but we have 3.....


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## dirtbagkayaker (Oct 29, 2008)

I'm fully in Shapp's corner on this one. If you're not hiking much in the timber and your dog sticks around you'll be good. But I would not hike 5 miles up Indian creek with a dog that will chase after.... say, a wolf. Just be mindful that there are small risks to bringing dogs into the wilderness. I don't bring my dog on the MFS anymore. For me is just too much with doing the duty patrol for 4 to 6 days and all I do is find other people's dog poo and then I feel obligated to pack their poop too because people may think it was my dog. It seems like it becomes a leash thing too when you're hiking into a HS or a group comes by. Dogs at home just seem to be easier for me.


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## cataraftgirl (Jun 5, 2009)

Our old river dog (Chocolate Lab - RIP old girl) went on about 6 or 7 MF trips. All but one were at low water and were fly-in trips to Indian Creek. She was better behaved in the airplanes than the humans. None of us in my group are hikers. We prefer to lolly gag in camp and nap/read/play cards. If someone did go for a short hike, she went with them. She was never much for chasing critters, but stuck to her humans like duct tape. She swam one rapid on the MF and one on the Main Salmon in her lifetime with no problems. She always wore her CFD. She was friendly and was well loved by most river folks who met her. In 10 years, I can't remember any negative encounters. On the one higher water trip that she went on, she swam after a near flip at Velvet. She was fine, but I don't think my friend will ever take a river dog on the MFS at high water ever again.

We have started a new river dog, and she has one low water MF under her belt so far. She's a good dog (another chocolate Lab).....as long as you keep your river shoes zipped up in your tent. She's a shoe thief


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## shappattack (Jul 17, 2008)

cataraftgirl said:


> I can't remember any negative encounters. On the one higher water trip that she went on, she swam after a near flip at Velvet. She was fine, but I don't think my friend will ever take a river dog on the MFS at high water ever again.


Lots of dogs are great, but we as owners sometimes don't realize how they may affect other people, even though they seam benign, or a situation seams benign cause everything turned out all right from our perspective.

Well what you describe above was a negative encounter/interaction for your friend, and apparently traumatizing or a pain in the ass enough that you state they will never take a river dog on the MFS at high water again.


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## cataraftgirl (Jun 5, 2009)

shappattack said:


> Lots of dogs are great, but we as owners sometimes don't realize how they may affect other people, even though they seam benign, or a situation seams benign cause everything turned out all right from our perspective.
> 
> Well what you describe above was a negative encounter/interaction for your friend, and apparently traumatizing or a pain in the ass enough that you state they will never take a river dog on the MFS at high water again.


Not a negative encounter or interaction. I think of those in terms of encountering or interacting with others, but definitely a negative experience.Negative enough that it would make him think twice about doing a high water MFS with a dog in the future.

My dog is 9 years old. When I got him, I was hopeful that he'd become my river dog. He's great in camp, a good swimmer, and doesn't seem to be afraid of water. However, he paces & whines so much on the boat that it makes for an unpleasant experience for me. My only guess is that he's an Aussie, a herding breed, and maybe he gets stressed out because his "flock"is separated from him by water on the other boats. Whatever it is, his distress on the boat caused me distress. After a couple of trips, I decided he was not meant to be a river dog. Bummer, but that's the way it was.

Not all dogs are river dogs. Not all owners can handle the risks & responsibilities of a river dog. Not all groups of river runners want a dog along. Not all trips are suited to having a river dog on them. Lots of stuff to think about.


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## walterwhite (Jan 25, 2017)

I would leave the dog at home and bring a cat.


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## cataraftgirl (Jun 5, 2009)

walterwhite said:


> I would leave the dog at home and bring a cat.


Now we're talking.....bad ass river kitty.


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