# Tarps: NRS RiverWing v. MSR Zing



## restrac2000 (Mar 6, 2008)

Hey Folks,

We are looking at getting a large, cantilevered tarp for car camping and rafting. We have narrows it down to either the NRS River Wing or the MSR Zing (previously called Outfitter Wing). Does anybody have experience with either? Feedback?

We have just pulled another Grand Canyon permit, this time in May 2013. I am prone to heat problems so having a shade shelter is keen to prevention above 85F. We also do a ton of off-season camping and rafting so we need a tarp that holds up precipitation.

Do either of these perform better for wind and rain? Does one hold up to UV degradation better (for the cost I want it to last)?

Thanks in advance.

Phillip​


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## malloypc (Jun 6, 2009)

Look into the Kelty Noah's tarps - much cheaper and just as functional.


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## DrBigDog (Apr 15, 2009)

*tarp*

I own an Outfitter Wing. It's huge. Good Quality. Depending on how you set it up, you may need a two other folks. MSR warranty is solid.
I also own a large Walrus (extinct I believe). Good quality and light. Buy one if you find it.


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## kikii875 (Oct 25, 2010)

I got the River Wing for our Grand trip last year. I was very happy with it. It stood up to some strong winds and worked well the one time it rained while we were cooking. It is very well built and although it is pricey it was worth it to me. It looks like it is built to last a long time.


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## Roddy (Sep 8, 2011)

I have the zing. I like it, I got it because it is lightweight, but I was disappointed to discover the seams are not taped. It has held up well the few times I have used it, including heavy rain on the Lochsa. I hope the seams hold up through time. The stakes that came with the zing are too small to hold up to much wind. I bought beefier stakes, which made the whole set up a bit heavier.


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## blutzski (Mar 31, 2004)

I have the NRS wing. I like it and it does hold up well in winds. The poles that come with it are nice, but when the wind really kicked up, the poles would bend. If the winds are heavy, you can use oars at the poles to prevent this from happening. The stakes that came with it held in strong winds, but were bent afterward. I will need to get some beefier ones. 

The Whitewater Innovations Big Duck shelter would also be worth considering if you are going with a big group. Anyone have experience with these?


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## farmer (Apr 30, 2004)

We had both on our grand trip, and I thought the msr was better built and would hold up longer. I had used both previously, and didn't think there was much difference, but after seeing them side by side I thought it was obvious.


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## restrac2000 (Mar 6, 2008)

malloypc said:


> Look into the Kelty Noah's tarps - much cheaper and just as functional.


I have been on a couple trips with the Kelty tarps and never found them as functional. They leaked every time, massively (two different ones each trip) and they just never seemed to as taut due to design (one side point versus 2-3) and therefor blew around a lot more than desired (and we all have minors in tarpology).

I have a design similar to the MSR in a smaller tarp and really appreciate the diversity of setup opportunities and ability to tie tautly. 

We went ahead and purchased the MSR tarp. We found it for $80 less than the others and I have always had good luck with MSR customer service (hopefully that is still true). Being a dork I also like how MSR provides the full dimensions and sketches with their products so I know exactly what I am purchasing.

Was curious about the Duck Tarps but they look much more complicated to setup and ultimately require an extra $50 in purchases to use to their full ability. It also did not look as modular in design but their website lacked much information. 

Thanks for all the input.


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## MountainMedic (Apr 24, 2010)

The duck is a cool system but is crazy heavy & bulky.

My kelty, and others i have hid from the rain under, work just fine in my book.


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## fdon (Jul 23, 2008)

The MSR as well as the NRS wings are great as they can be deployed in many different ways with the poles, lines and stakes provided. On high wind/heavy rain situations, I find additional comfort in setting a heavy line such as a rescue bag between heavy anchors and propped up with oars for additional support for the wing.


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## mrkyak (Jul 11, 2005)

On a grand trip I Had a nrs wing fail in heavy winds, the poles bent.
Check into getting a personal mister to help deal with the heat.


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## cataraftgirl (Jun 5, 2009)

restrac2000 said:


> I have been on a couple trips with the Kelty tarps and never found them as functional. They leaked every time, massively (two different ones each trip) and they just never seemed to as taut due to design


I used a Kelty Noah tarp for several years and had the same issues with lack of a taut pitch. I believe it's because of the way the tarp is designed. The catenary cut of the tarp lends itself better to a diamond pitch. I did find the Kelty to be well made, lightweight, well priced, and had no issues with leakage in the rain.

I wanted a smaller tarp for trips with a smaller number of people, and one that didn't weigh a ton. I now use a silnylon 12 X 15 tarp that I'm very happy with. It weighs under 2 pounds, packs small, and gets the job done. The MSR uses silnylon, and from the specs it looks to be lighter in weight than the NRS tarp. I think you will be happy with it.


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## BCJ (Mar 3, 2008)

I have the Moss (now MSR) Outfitter Wing and have used it frequently for 10+ years. The factory poles did bend in high wind, so I tied 2" steel rings on the peak-ends to put oar handles through and thereafter only use oars. Worked perfect, and I think the NRS is already set up for that. The oars actually make it more comfortable by lifting up about 8-10" higher for headroom. I also have an NRS wing but have never put it up yet. All the comments about stakes are also dead on - - the factory supplied stakes are almost never beefy enough. I use 12" military aluminum stakes. Put a piece of hoopy or cord and a mini-carabiner on each sake and keep them all together and set up is easy. The guylines just loop through the mini-biner and are ready to be pulled taught with the cord-tensioners. By all means if the unit comes with plastic cord tensioners I'd replace them. The plastic ones slip. The metal (aluminum) cord tensioners are best.

I don't think you can go wrong with the NRS wing. The ZING, by MSR, is a replacement for the old Outfitter and is made with lighter/thinner fabric. OK, less weight, but I've heard they flap in the wind some. The old, thicker nylon Outfitter is pretty solid. So, even if the NRS is a bit heavier I'd go with it. 

Have also used the Kelty Noah. Works OK but not as versatile, durable or steady in high winds as the wing-type units. But can't beat it for the money. Just depends how often and how hard you intend to use it. I do lots and lots of off-season trips all over the west so having good kitchen shelter is a must for me.

Good luck


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## restrac2000 (Mar 6, 2008)

Thanks everyone. I will post my thoughts about the MSR Zing when I get the chance. 

Per the difference between the MSR and NRS....its odd they weigh so much different because according to the websites they are made from the exact same material and denier. MSR just specifies the use of a certain waterproofing technique. I assume it may be the type/use of seam tape and the additional weight of cords and poles that is causing the difference. 

I was really torn between the two and was bummed I didn't live closer to a real outfitter to compare the difference (SW Utah is a bit desperate for such equipment). Ultimately it boiled down to the fact that I have 10"x10' with almost the exact same design as the MSR and love it (its a different brand). I have found it to be the best for setting up wind and rain proof designs (in the Grand in Jan and Deso in summer). 

I also already own several of the beefier MSR poles for the tarp so they should help. Not to mention the quiver of oars we obviously have on every trip.

Hope gear hunting season goes well for all.

Phillip


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## [email protected] (Jun 1, 2010)

malloypc said:


> Look into the Kelty Noah's tarps - much cheaper and just as functional.


I second that, love mine. 
Kelty also makes aluminum super strong poles that are adjustble from 8' to 10' and break down short or you can just use oars.


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## brandob9 (Jun 13, 2010)

Option #3, since you are in the $400 range: 

Outfitter Wing Tarp | River Hardware

These guys are small, local to Hood River, rafters and make bomber goods.


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## malloypc (Jun 6, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> I second that, love mine.
> Kelty also makes aluminum super strong poles that are adjustble from 8' to 10' and break down short or you can just use oars.


I've been happy with my Noah 16 for a couple years now. 
Catenary cut so stays balanced in the wind, I just use oars at the corners and weight down the mid-points. 
Held up amazingly well during a fierce thunderstorm cell in Hells Canyon.
It did leak at the end of the first season when used for three straight days of rain on the Rogue.
Solved that by running through the washer with Wash-in waterproofing for clothing | TX.Direct Wash-In
Hard to beat for less than $100 (much less when on sale).


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## restrac2000 (Mar 6, 2008)

Just got the MSR Zing in the mail.

Sounds like they listened to some of the feedback and taped every seam now. 

Definitely a lighter material than I was expecting but is supposedly the exact same nylon as the NRS. Not sure where the NRS River Wing gains the extra 4 lbs? Poles and stakes?

Only downside I see is that the MSR Zing doesn't come with adjustable poles. Luckily I have 2 of the beefy Kelty ones if need be. That said, we rarely ever lower the height of the center poles below 6-7 feet and I have bought it for reasons that would negate needing to go too much higher. 

Will definitely need to be more careful around fires than with the beefier tarps made from pack cloth (Duck series). Just can't let it spark too much. 

Thanks for all the input. Look forward to lazing under the new equipment.

Phillip


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## rwhyman (May 23, 2005)

I have the MSR Outfitter. I always use oars on the point and middle of the back, then use the poles that comes with it on the sides in different combinations depending on what's needed. The stakes that came with it will not hold up in a wind, especially in sand. I carry snow pickets with a caribiner for stakes.
MSR Coyote Snow Picket from Backcountry.com


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## Faucet Butt (May 11, 2008)

*Tarp and a wing*

If you're on the river when a good storm rolls in I've found that it's nice to have two tarps- one for the kitchen- a coated nylon 12X12' tarp, and one for the people hang-out area-some kind of wing. 

I've used moss parawings (msr now)- very good quality and good in the wind, and I own a kelty noah tarp- bought it cause it was more affordable. If you've got the cash, I'd get an msr-they set up a bit more taunt- and then get on campmor's website and order up a 12X12' tarp. 

Kinda goes without saying but, with your tarps, also carry some extra hoopie or 5mil cord to make deadman anchors with in the sand using your good 'ol army surplus trench shovel. Know your knots: taunt-line hitch, bowline, square knot...

Tarpology is fun.


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