# the nazi camp at GORE



## adrock (Apr 28, 2004)

Firstly, I had a good time at gore this year and huge thanks to everyone that put time and energy into the event. 

NAZIS: The overwhelming law enforcement presence was a super buzz kill. The 'closing' at the put in between 11-1 was also bullshit (I was lucky and made it on at 10:59 with a ranger ready to break legs if I didn't). I am hoping we can get the ball rolling for some constructive feedback and ultimately make next year's event better.

Searches, spying with bonoculars, bullet proof vests, intimidation, shutting good ol gore camp fire fun down, what the F! Can we do anything about this, does anyone know who to contact at the BLM or state level to file a complaint?

AM


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## Paul the Kayaker (Nov 7, 2004)

I agree, that was bull shit. Turned the end of summer fest into a fucking summer camp. Closing down the river is crap. I drove from the fort only to make it there by 1105 and with the sight of a ranger truck blocking the road to the put in. I ended up having to run up the canyon to make it to tunnel on time to see any action. Its bull shit and next year it needs to go back to the way it was.


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## Cutch (Nov 4, 2003)

Unfortunatly, the law enforcement was definetly too intense. I firmly believe that there should be a couple of officers around to respond to any bad situations that may arise. However, the approach was much more hostel, and I think most would agree that the authorities did more to initiate bad situations than they did to keep things under control. The campfire they broke up, due to a noise complaint, was very poorly handled, and could have easily resulted in a fairly serious riot. 

I think a lot of this stems from the attitude of the officers. Instead of approaching the group professionaly, they immaturely puffed up there chest and got in the face of whoever they could, wherever they could. Even a bouncer at a bar knows better than to pick a fight with every drunk unruly person they see. Talking is much more effective. 

And yes, the put-in times were lame. What's the point of having a race that most people can't go watch? It's cheaper and easier to go solo Gore with a stop watch. 

Huge thanks to Mark Joffe and company for putting on the event. I hope we can learn from this years Gore fest and make next year even better.


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## trench (Aug 22, 2005)

Agreed... if anyone can provide some contact info on where to file a complaint/ suggestion that would be great! There has to be a way to keep control and keep people off the tracks without pissing everyone off and giving the rangers a bad image. They really are not all bad! But there were definitely a couple assholes creating a negative image. Hopefully this can be fixed for next year.


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## Sam F (Jun 27, 2005)

First off, thank you everyone for working with us by not heading up to the tracks. Arron and I had a great day at the ferry and the Union Pacific was very cool and happy with our efforts. Thanks Arron for stepping in to help.

Joffe will be putting up a summary of the issues that we need to look at for next year, but the BLM was very supportive overall. 

1. Their concern stemmed from the "usual" crowd they get out that way ie. Monster Truck and ATV/motorcycle gear heads, the type we've seen drunk and obnoxious in places like Ruby Mountain etc. Talks will progress, but it won't need to be this way always.

2. The river closure was due to some miscommunication. Obviously it doesn't help racers if there are other boaters in the way, but this will be addressed and improved. The closure was not Rapidpulse's idea.

Please address your concerns with Mark first. His email address is [email protected] All issues will be discussed and planning for next year is already underway.

Thanks for a great weekend.

Sam


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## Binge (Oct 14, 2003)

I agree that the event was fun and well run once you were able to get into the canyon. We showed up at 10:59 and got a fairly nice BLM ranger who respectfully told us that it was 11am and that we could not put on the river until 3pm. After getting over the initial shock and the usual trying to talk our way on (which failed) he told us to go ahead and turn around by where the bathrooms are. We headed that direction to turn around and ran into a real a-hole of a BLM ranger who "needed" us to get the hell out of there ASAP. A couple of bored armed cops decided that we were being uppity by trying to turn around there and were more than happy to add their menacing presence to the mix. 

We went to Kremling, paddled the extra couple of flat water miles on the Colorado, no problems. We also ran into a few others who just went up the put-in road a little ways and ran the Blue right past the put-in, supposedly they didn't have any problems either.

I think the main problem lies not with the ill-mannered and over-armed BLM cops, but with the shutting down of a public put-in. Rivers in Colorado have enough river access problems that we don't need anyone closing access for any reason. To me, the closing of the river by the BLM for any reason sets a very bad precedent that I would hate to see on any river.


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## ToddG (Nov 29, 2003)

re, river closure & setting a bad precedent: uh, ya think? far as i know, gore fest 05 sets THE precedent for cops shutting down river access during a river festival celebrating the river that's access-denied. seems kinda wacky to me, but i'm old fashioned ...

furthermore, private boaters have never been a major concern for racers & therefore cannot be cited as a valid reason for shutting down river access during a river festival. it's clear that it had everything to do with BLM/U.Pac.RR. fair enough, keep people off the tracks, but there are better was to address this. 

the cops were way oppressive/invasive & the organizers will have to make sure starting right away that festival attendees -- if there is in fact another festival -- are insulated from this shit in future events. these guys weren't "responding" to situations, they were causing them. 

the majority of the people that i talked to said that they will not be going to future gore canyon events because of the overwhelming cop presence this year. if i were one of the organizers, this would be a pretty big red flag &/or call to action. 

having said all that, you get a bunch of boater friends together & we will inevitably make it a good time no matter what -- i had fun when i wasn't being harassed. 

oh yeah, & the creature crafters got straight SCHOOLED by inner tubers ... discuss ..


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## robanna (Apr 20, 2004)

Just for the record, I was told at 9 am that I could not get on the river by the rangers at the put in. I was told it would be closed until 3-3:30 pm.

I tought it was very unusual that there weren't any race offiicials in sight to confirm or deny this closure.


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## kentv (Apr 3, 2004)

I agree, the river closure was about as lame as the choice of thongs the dude chugging bears late night at the fire wore.

We got lucky. After driving down from Steamboat, setting up camp and picking up many racers hitchhiking to the putin, we arrived at 11:06 and were promptly told to get out! Shocked, unempowered and devastated, I pleaded our case again and the ranger actually let us unload and drop in, a 100% reversal from his initial "GET OUTTA HERE, NOW!". The sym-pathetic ranger's guilt must have played on his conscious. 

We will be back next year to watch, play, party and get harassed if need be. But, we will be on time, that's for sure. 

Thanks to all, overall a fine job of organizing and once again a great gathering of the Colorado boating community.


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## jhalseth (Sep 20, 2004)

Hey Paul the Kayaker, aren't you a raft guide?...Douche bag


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## Electric-Mayhem (Jan 19, 2004)

Thats really weird, I got to the puttin at around noon and had no problem getting in. The ranger just waved me through. No idea why I didn't have a problem and others seemed to.

I too think that while they had the right idea Pumphouse, it was a bit harshly enforced. The rangers were swaggering about in a big group and being very unfriendly. I do realize that having to enforce a group that large with only a few people is intimidating, but being unreasonable is not the way to go about it. It felt like a combination of a power-trip and fear that something big and nasty was gonna happen on their part. If they had pushed much harder, do think it could have been the Gore Canyon River Festival and Riot.

JH


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## RP (Aug 25, 2004)

*Gore Issues are being addressed*

Mark here from Rapidpulse, the event organizers of Gore. I have been reading the posts re the law enforcement and river closure. Both these issues are being addressed at the decision-making levels of the BLM. I was not aware that the river itself would be closed on the day and fully agree it should not be. We enjoy spectators on the river to cheeer paddlers on. In regards to the law enforcement, I will strongly urge for a lesser presence next year. On both issues i will post updates as we have them.

I do want to make it very clear to everyone that the BLM--in particular the Kremmling office--have been huge supporters of the event and without their support or assistance this event would have been cancelled due to our history of spectators on the railroad. This is where it all began. 

Overall the event was a success, and we all enjoyed. I want to thank everyone for their support and for staying off the railroad tracks. All of us, including Union Pacific, BLM and the Grand County Sheriffs, learned a lot. Next year's event will be even better, and I am certain the 2 issues being brought up in this post will not be an issue in the future.

I am also happy to address anyone's concerns personally. Send an email to [email protected]. I hope to see you all at Gore next year.

Mark


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## blutzski (Mar 31, 2004)

I was not able to stay saturday night but from what I saw friday night and saturday during the race I'd say the Fesival is back on course. Thanks Mark. Like it or not, things aren't the way they use to be and we have to adjust if we don't want to get shut down entirely. 

Things I think went great:
1) The idea of allowing non-boaters to hike up and then get ferried across so they would stay off the tracks was genious. The maps showing closures and hiking options was way more realistic than saying "don't hike up to watch the race" in years past.
2) Closing the right shore to keep people off the tracks and minimize conflict with the railroad. Even though I originally bitched about being told to stay off the right shore, it wasn't that big of a deal. The cops were letting people portage Gore if they did it at river level and no one was told to stay off the right shore at tunnel or below where the tracks are way above the river. And spectating at gore from the left side was actually better than the right side.
3) Moving the race back to Saturday and the fesitval back to Pumphouse is the only way to go. I like the beer garden on friday eve too.


Things that need to be improved:
1) Closing the river from 11:00 to 3:00 was BS. Especially when they didn't tell anyone about it beforehand. I barely got on and would have been pissed if I drove all the way out and got turned back. Plus it sets a bad precedent for indiscriminant river closures. Was that even legal?
2) Sounds like the Police need to lighten up a bit the night of the party. Who the hell complains about noise at a party? The Police should be used to bitch-slap any whiners.
3) I missed the creature crafts and the tubers. I'd say send them down first as the warm-up act next year so no one misses them.


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## frenchy (Oct 10, 2003)

Mark,

Just wanted to say THANK YOU for all the time and energy you put into this event. That was a supreme effort on your part. If only we could harness all that energy from Saturday night and bottle it up, man that was priceless. Also I'm really glad you're reading these threads and are already planning on making adjustments for next year's event, that's true commitment.

Here's a thought on the cop thing. I wonder if one possible solution might be to shut down all campground festivities after a while, but then create a seperate zone for the after-hours parties? Let the tired folks sleep, and the partiers rage. Maybe the overflow parking is a better place for that? I don't know, just thinking out loud.

Anyways, thanks again for keeping the tradition and spirit alive. I can't tell you how much I laughed my ass off Sat. night, and how great it was to hang and party with so many friends all in one place. Hands down one of the better parties of the summer.

Thanks,
B


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## robanna (Apr 20, 2004)

> Here's a thought on the cop thing. I wonder if one possible solution might be to shut down all campground festivities after a while, but then create a seperate zone for the after-hours parties? Let the tired folks sleep, and the partiers rage. Maybe the overflow parking is a better place for that? I don't know, just thinking out loud.


I'm to old for all of that late night parting and that's why we camp at a different spot. we can go down and drink a few beers and then head back to our campsite when we're ready.

If you pull into pumhouse in the middle of the day and see the parting going on and think "this will be a good place to go to bed early and get a good nights rest"...


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## newby0616 (Jun 16, 2005)

Hey folks,
Seeing as I was in NC/ TN/ N. Ga. paddling this weekend, and obviously not at Gore (dammit dammit dammit!)  .... I think I'm gonna need a little clarification....

The "creature crafts"? ummmm.... maybe I'm showing my lack of experience here, but would one of you guys mind explaining?? gracias!!


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## Electric-Mayhem (Jan 19, 2004)

newby0616 said:


> Hey folks,
> Seeing as I was in NC/ TN/ N. Ga. paddling this weekend, and obviously not at Gore (dammit dammit dammit!)  .... I think I'm gonna need a little clarification....
> 
> The "creature crafts"? ummmm.... maybe I'm showing my lack of experience here, but would one of you guys mind explaining?? gracias!!



http://www.americanwhitewater.org/photos/archive/4311med.jpg

its a supposed self righting raft, but they don't seem to work very well. The creators are so confident of the fact that they will right themselves that they actually strap themselves to a seat on the thing with a seatbelt. Sometimes they do allright through Gore, but this year two out of four got their ass's handed to them. They got pretty chundered in Ginger, the big hole in Gore Rapid. The thing is a good idea, it just doesn't seem to work all that great sometimes. I also wouldn't want to have to paddle that thing across flatwater with a headwind, must be brutal.

jh


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## newby0616 (Jun 16, 2005)

JH--
Thanks so much for the clarification.... now I see where you guys are getting "creature crafts".... I don't know, if you asked me (which no one obviously did  ), the whole thing just looks a bit phallic.
 

I mean, if anyone else can look at those rafts **WITHOUT** seeing two gigantic, dueling penises (or is it "_penii_"?), more power to 'em!!  

I guess what I was almost expecting to see was something with a little more "homemade" flair to it, like what the cuban refugees put together to paddle to FL: 1952 powder-blue Ford street taxis, pimped out with a ring of inner tubes or something to absorb any blows, floating on a pad of shipping crates tied down to styrofoam by way of duct tape or something.... Don't ask: I don't know how you'd paddle something like that on whitewater, either! LOL


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## gh (Oct 13, 2003)

Uh, I saw a dog bone.


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## newby0616 (Jun 16, 2005)

You know, GH, to wax cliche for a moment....

... a dirty mind is a terrible thing to waste.....


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## gh (Oct 13, 2003)

No seriously, I saw a dog bone. On the hand I have a very dirty mind, trust me. Most of the things 'I see' with my dirty mind eye are not penis's though.


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## newby0616 (Jun 16, 2005)

GH--
I think I can explain the difference here.... you're a guy, right?

See, I'm not.... 

I'm just a nice girl with her mind planted solidly in the gutter; I don't know if this is something to brag about or be ashamed of, though!! LOL


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## FLOWTORCH (Mar 5, 2004)

Newby, yeah, I'm gonna have to go ahead and have you post or send me some pics. With all your "sexy shorts" talk, penil visions and gutter mind; you sound like my type of woman :wink: - plus you like smily faces


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## sj (Aug 13, 2004)

Please brag


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## gh (Oct 13, 2003)

Newby, that does explain quite a bit. I am trying to decide what to write here but everything that comes to mind is going straight to the gutter so I will refrain. 
The picture thing is a good idea, feel free.


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## newby0616 (Jun 16, 2005)

What if I told you boys I had my a$$ handed to me on the Ocoee this weekend?? Would you still be interested then?? 

I mean, it was only one swim, but still.... that's a III+ river, and I'm thinking a swim on something like that is probably pretty shameful by you CO boys' standards, no??


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## adrock (Apr 28, 2004)

*dirty*

I love a dirty conversation (thus many know me as dirty) but let's get back to subject here, I think we were talking about gore. Newby, please do cc me on those pics. And yes, by Colorado standards, for a chic anyway, thats a big swim, haha.


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## FLOWTORCH (Mar 5, 2004)

I dont know about these guys but this CO boy doesn't have any standards. Now make with the pics or the kidnapped puppy here gets it!! :mrgreen:


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## FLOWTORCH (Mar 5, 2004)

I dont know about these guys but this CO boy doesn't have any standards. Now make with the pics or the kidnapped puppy here gets it!! :mrgreen:

sorry back to the point


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## newby0616 (Jun 16, 2005)

Okay, boys-- let's play nice on the "chick" comments  ... for whatever it's worth, it wasn't a *bad* swim  

Even so, any more comments on "big" swims for you guys vs/ "big" swims for us girls, and I'm not posting any of the embarrassing shots I'm sure my friends were kind enough to take of me running double trouble upside down!  


Okay, like Flow said... back to the actual subject matter.... sorry for hijacking, guys! (be nice to that puppy, BTW... LOL)


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## adrock (Apr 28, 2004)

*trade*

Newby, you poked fun at my ethnicity, in return, I poked fun at your gender, whew! that's a lot of poking, I need a cigarette. I knew you would cool enough to not take it too seriously, now hand over the pics!
And good on ya for running double upside down. I have spent time in that drop upside down as well, good stuff.

[email protected] :twisted: 
I will send back some very worth while stuff.

back to Gore: Fuck the BLM, they stole my river knife!


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## kclowe (May 25, 2004)

*Thanks to all for a great weekend. BLM stats requested.*

I want to thank everyone who helped out at the beer tent as well as Mark and everyone else who spent so much time organizing the event. I had a blast and we raised a lot of money for the club. Although I completely support the intent of BLM and the sherrif's dept., I agree that the presence was excessive and somewhat hostile at times. I am sure this will be worked out before next year. I hope that everyone understands that the local BLM Rangers were "augmented" with outside help. I think a lot of the problem stemmed from the Rangers and Officers from other areas not understanding the type of people they were dealing with. I hope that we proved to them we can get together and party peacefully without their expected conflicts. I know there were several tickets issued for beer outside of the beer garden. Does anyone have any official stats on how many tickets, arrests, conflicts, etc. there were during the weekend? Also, did anyone have any situations involving drug-sniffing dogs or somwhat questionable searches? I've heard a few rumors that are a little disturbing. Any info would be great.


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## newby0616 (Jun 16, 2005)

Adrian,
Your "ethnicity"?
Unless the 'ethicity' you speak of is a pedigree in PERVERT, I'm not certain I know what you're talking about!! LOL


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## justsammer (Apr 16, 2005)

*Dangerous advice*

Hey hey, good stuff, you guys have been making me laugh. Okay, but here is something to add to the original discussion. Mark, you might want to caution the rangers about giving boaters advice on boating. At the put-in, besides being harassed on how much time I had left to get on the river, one ranger actually told me to "Get on the water, keep paddling, and don't stop paddling, keep going, don't stop!" Hmm, i thought, sounds like dangerous advice to give boaters on a class 5 river they are unfamiliar with. Now some of course know Gore well enough to do that, but many don't. Its sounded like horribly ignorant instructions to give to boaters, they should keep their mouths shut about stuff like that. We're boaters, and to be on Gore, we're practically experts, this is our event, not theirs. I appreciate what they were there to do, keep people off the tracks, but they should stick to that specific job, and otherwise stay out of the way, and out of the picture.


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## adrock (Apr 28, 2004)

*ethnicity*

newb,

I was eluding to your shot at us 'wimpy' (class III swimmin) Colorado boaters. Since I am from Colorado, that is my ethnicity so to speak. Lets not forget who perverted this thread in the first place (that'd be you, perversion instigator), I was just playing along. Still need that cigarette.

Back to Gore, uh sweet advice, 'just keep paddling, dont stop till ya get to that stagnant poisoned dirt pond we milsleadingly named lake powell, you can stop there and join us for a shit sandwich and some good ol motor boatin' who the fuck are these BLM guys? They are like a cross between the CIA nitwit that couldn't pass the IQ test and some cop that got demoted to school crossings. Tax dollars at work!

I will post the footage I have of Todd G getting BUSTED! Pretty funny. I was shooting the whole thing (Sunday Morning - Todd broke out the motorcycle for a ride for jesus) and then a posse of BLEMS came up and told me to stop shooting:

BLEM: 'You gettin some good shots?'

ME: 'YEP'

BLEM (in my face this time) 'That's probably enough'

ME: 'Fuck you, I have rights bitch, and the rest of the world wants to know whats going on here, all the injustice and bullshit you guys are tossing around at our expense!' 

Well I didnt say that exactly but, I did shut the camera off and walk away and then they stole my fucking river knife.

I will post that shit here soon (a quicktime).


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## Mountain (Oct 11, 2003)

I didnt make it this season and was bumed out about it tell my friends that I usually go with got back and told me what happened. Nothing like hanging out with you crew around the campfire having a few beers and what not when the next thing you know your being busted for smoking pot by some jack ass rangers that have nothing better to do but spy on you. I can here them now " yep I think I just saw that group over there lighting somthing up that looks illegal we better move in fast and make the big bust....." I heard 18 busted in all for weed... If you ask me the hole gore fest as fun as it is, has been on a huge downward spiral for years now. What the fuck you got in store for us next year??? How about full body cavity searches.... Dont kid your selves that you are going to be able to work out any less of a police state for next season.... I know none of my local crew that have been going sence the beginning of the gore fest want to go next year!!!!
Well it was fun while it lasted, good luck Rapid Pulse selling the BIG BUST FEST for next year....
MM


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## akblair (Apr 27, 2004)

I saw the whole thing with the BLM rushing into the campsite next to us because of the motorcycle! The security was too much! We were visited by women with guns walking thru the camp with a drug dog. 
Word to self . . . Never try to be friendly with a police dog! "They are WORKING!" Great event tho! Can't wait for next year!


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## ToddG (Nov 29, 2003)

They rolled in 5-strong & heavily armed to write me a ticket for riding a dirtbike. The original cop needed backup because I was sketchy & coulda been a loose cannon. I thought i was gonna get tazered .. tazed .. or whatever .. seriously, it was some Rodney King '05 shit ...

All things considered, I'm probably lucky -- even though it was almost noon, I probably still could've been busted for a DUI ...


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## raft3plus (Apr 24, 2004)

Thanks to the organizers, you did a great job putting this together. You did provide us with a wonderful whitewater event. Thank you for your efforts, and thank you to all the people who chose not to walk along the tracks.

The tubers RULED!!! The rest of us in our protective gear stand tall to admire the brave. Thank you for taking on Gore; you have conquered it.

Speaking of which... Have been attending this event for years. Never have I seen with my own eyes anything like the Pumphouse Raid of '05 since observing the footage from Waco. They (subcontracted from the Dept. Of Homeland Oppression And Subversion? and cleverly trained in delivering psychological terror equal to all civilians) rolled into the camp and huddled in the overflow camp to and fortify their plan. Being on the other side of a tent near the entrance we found ourselves overhearing some of their quick huddle instructions. Some of us got in closer to listen but could only make out some of it. Then they set out in a series of formations; The first two rows of enforcers stepped forward without dogs, and the last with. By now this was surreal and scary to watch. The first group broke to their right, entered its first camp with flashlights and started questioning everyone when they spotted what could have allegedly been a bag of contraband. No one fessed up to the evil deed and the inquisition started. A half an hour later they moved on after gathering a few summons. (summonses?) A dog was about to be maced unless the owner had stepped in. In the meantime the others had already secured additional successful targets for more summons. By the time the raid was over, little more than an hour had passed on Friday night and everyone was a mixture of angry, upset, confused, outraged or all.

Did someone start a fight? No. Any major crimes committed there? No.
What was there, some kind of cess-pool? No, just hard-working people coming out on the river to test their skills are trying to have a good time without hurting anyone, including themselves.

Oh, for some reason I decided to forego the next couple years to avoid any hassle with whatever that was, sorry. The gauley festival next month ought to be a little more positive with possibly less intimidation techniques exacted onto the common folk.


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