# Walmart driving Albertson's out of business in GJ



## cemartin

This is off the subject of boating, but I feel that this is worth saying. Yesterday I went into my local Albertson's grocery store near Mesa State College. When I went to pay for my groceries, the cashier told me that the store was most likely going to be shut down as a result of competition with Walmart in the next few months. They're trying to sell the building to another grocery chain, but he said that it will most likely be an empty building. To add to this, those of us in Grand Junction are expecting two more Walmarts to invade the Clifton and Fruita areas. I feel that this is capitalism gone wrong. It's really sad that a good and reputable business such as Albertson's (next to a college) would go under to Walmart. What do you think about this issue? What could be done to stop Walmart, or should it be stopped?
Curtis


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## WhiteLightning

No offense, but I always think it is funny when people feel sorry for companies like City Market, Albertson's, etc. being outpriced by Wal-Mart. Sure, it's one thing if we are talking about local stores that are family operated by local people, but trust me, Albertsons, Safeway, etc. are not any less corporate than Wal-Mart, they just have trouble having lower prices. Usually when that is the case, the consumer wins. There are some exceptions though-we got a Super Wal Mart up here in the past couple of years, and I do shop there, and get lower prices, and can do one stop shopping. The problem is that the service isn't as good, and I wait in lines forever just to find out what the sign says in Spanish is that I'm in a "rapido" checkout line, etc. That makes me happier to go back to City Market, maybe I pay $3 more each time, but no lines, English speaking customer service, etc.


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## KSC

How about next time you see if you can make your point without a racist comment.


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## cemartin

I can see your point that all of these stores are large coorperations, but there is a difference between Walmart and the other stores. For example, Albertson's offers healthcare plans and union wages in contrast to Walmart's anti union stance. Walmart will actually shut down a store rather than accept a union. Also, because Walmart sell's practically every day to day item, they're in competition with every place from Discount tire to Albertson's. Perhaps this is the way we as Americans want our ecomomy to be driven, but I think we're on a path to a giant Walmart monoploy.


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## eloveswater

Basically it comes down to this walmart sucks, but it is going to continue to grow because that's what people want. They want to be able to go to one store to get everything they need, its called convenience. Everyone rags on walmart and in no way am I trying to defend them, but they are only trying to cater to the laziness of people. Walmart strives because we as people let it! I do wish that there was something that could be done, however I think as long as they continue to out beat local grocers on prices they are going to out live.


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## WhiteLightning

KSC- 

I'm not racist, I just don't speak or read Spanish well. It is difficult to get good customer service if there is a language barrier between you and the signage and the staff. Sorry if that makes me a racist, or hurts your feelings.


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## mescalimick

What about the millions of poor folks that shop at Walmart that save $1.20 on a tube of tooth paste over Albertson's or City Market's price and can now afford a loaf of bread or a dozen eggs. 

And employee benefits are market driven. If your not getting benefits, get better skills. A fair amount of employees that work at WalMart are lucky to have jobs at all, let alone benefits.


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## Maya_

While I see your point that people without skills shouldn`t have a better wage I ask you to look at the marjority of people that are forced to work at Walmart. Most of which have had no choice but to work there because their previous employeer was put out of buisness. 

To all of those interested in the anti-Walmart movement I suggest this link:

http://walmartwatch.com/


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## parttimer

*albertson's is reportedly being sold to another grocer....*

as a result, they are closing a bunch of stores. while their sale and consequent stores is related to competition with wal-mart, it's not the direct reason for their stores closing, at least to my knowledge.

chris


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## PhilBob

Albertsons sucks. Walmart Sucks. You suck!



Philbob


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## conservative boater

I don't understand the rage and hate that is leveled at Walmart. They are the perfect institution for all you hippy liberals out there. They provide jobs for all those "underprivledged" citizens that liberals claim to want to help. They even provide jobs for all those "underprivledged" minorities and foreign citizens that liberals claim to want to help. They provide convenience and low prices to all those "underprivledged" citizens that liberals claim to want to help. Lets not forget that one stop shopping cuts down on driving time for all lazy Americans, which cuts down on oil consumtion, which all liberals claim to want to cut down on. Not to mention that whenever, and wherever a Walmart is opened, it provides windfall tax revenues, something that we all know liberals love. And these tax revenues can be used to help all the "underprivledged" citizens that liberals claim to want to help. Lets look at a case in point. The Walmart in Avon, CO is a perfect case to examine. It has provided all of the benefits to the community that have previously been discussed in my diatribe. Yes, it may put some mom and pop businesses out of business. But the result is a net benefit for the community. The mostly broke community that provide services for a few very well to do second home owners and tourists can fulfill their day to day needs without driving all over town, and burning up those nasty fossil fuels, at lower prices. This means that they have more money to spend at other places in town, including mom and pop businesses, and providing the government with more sales tax revenue. The Walmart provides more jobs than previously existed in the valley, including jobs to minorities, along with providing these people with benefits that they could not otherwise obtain at mom and pop businesses. Nuf said. 
And by the way. This site sucks. Can we talk about other things like,...oh I don't know,........boating?;


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## CGM

Typical.


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## BastrdSonOfElvis

If this site sucks then take your conservative bullshit elsewhere. If you only want to talk about boating, that's cool...then don't chime in on an off topic thread.

...you sound like medman. Call me Matlock, but I aint fooled by your new name. Then again, all you greedy bastards sound the same. Whoever you are, piss off.


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## conservative boater

That's the kind of response I would expect from a lib. All emotion, no fact. You can't even refute the knowledge that I am laying down for you. So you simply tell me to piss off, AND hurt my feelings with you're cold words. And I thought liberals were supposed to be such caring people. And by the way, Matlock, you need to work on you're investigative skills, because you are way off.


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## BastrdSonOfElvis

Laying down knowlege? Ninja, please. You know who walmart is good for? The Waltons. And the shareholders. And just like all big business, some consumers may benefit incidentally but lets not pretend the objective is make lives easier or help anyone out. We don't even have the coldwar veil of needing to "preserve our way or life" by defeating the communists anymore. Capitalism is exposed for what it is...a game with players who are out for blood...for money...and for nothing else. They don't give a shit who is crushed in the process.

Walmart exploits the people that work there. These folks sadly have no other prospect (fast food industry notwithstanding) and the execs know that...they hire a cheep labor force..pay them shit and treat them like shit. And you and every other "conservative" I've ever had the misfortune to speak with could care less about the plight of the underpriveledged (putting that word in quotes so many times was dick) because a)you've never been there and therefore b) you must be somehow superior...immune from these kind of problems. That's if you even "lower" yourself enough to put on their shoes and realize the kind of problems they have. The have nots have not for a reason and whatever that reason is you're above it. It's that sense of entitlement that oozes from every word you jackasses spout that burns my ass and puts fire in every liberal's belly. And no amount of dialogue can convince any of you that Ayn Rand is full of shit and that greed is BAD. So I tell you to piss off because it's easier than wasting my breath.


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## Rushis Right

BastrdSonOfElvis why is that you assume those people working in these stores are under such plight that they can't take care of themselves. They have jobs. Some people that work at WALMART make plenty of money and started from the ground up. Thay also have the ability to quit and work somewhere else. They don't need some liberal hippy sticking it to the man for them. The may not have a sweet job by trustfund standards but they're not all stupid.


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## BastrdSonOfElvis

Rushis Right? Hilarious. Another medman pseudonym.

Certainly never said they were stupid...that's your word. And the vast majority of those who work at walmart would be hardpressed to find another job, especially after all the other retailers go under.

A trustafarian's job is to...have no job at all.

I'm no hippy. No hippies in the military.

And Rush Limbaugh is not only wrong, he's fat, arrogant, annoying, all-around unpleasant and if memory serves a bigger drug addict than lots of hippies I know.

One last thing...I'm no democrat but the way I see it, there are only two reasons to be republican: greed and stupidity. I'm not sure which is worse.

Elvis has left the building, yall, your rhetoric is tired and I'm tired of reading it.


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## conservative boater

what's up with your location? You live at my mom's house? You're so original. Lets get off mom's cause I just got off yours, fucker.


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## gnarfish

Cut the ad-hominem shit conservative. It's okay to be wrong.


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## cecil

the thing that makes me sick about Walmart is the fact that they are the largest retailer in the nation (probably the world) and yet, in some states, they offer training classes to their employees on how to collect welfare. I mean come on, the largest retailer and they expect the tax-payer to help pay the way for some of their employees. Make me want to vomit. BSOE you are a pretty funny dude


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## sj

Hate to break into this political love fest with facts but. My wife has been in consumer products for the last 20 years. And the sad truth is Albertsons is the least competent of the major players. Wether you work for Kraft,Coke or a Produce Supplier a sure sign your part of the next lay offs is being asigned to the Albies account. From store cleanliness to pricing and purchase power they are always last. Their demise has been talked about for the last 10 years just not enough room. Also when Kroger and Safeway started buying regional playes in the last decade Albies only move was to grab Cub Foods the shakiest of the regionals by far(Kroger bought Fred Meyer as an example).

This is about nothing but free market and Competence. Had Walmart not nocked them off in the Junction Area. Kroger(City market) would have. Steve ps people who need multiple user Id's to state their case are lame imo


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## sandoz

We need someone to delete useless posts like this! If I ever wanted to talk politics, I would go shoot myself! Go preach to someone who cares and please do it somewhere else...............................


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## sarahkonamojo

*Limited*

Convenience? Choice? Closing a neighborhood market and replacing it with a super whatever lacoated at the nearest field just adds to to traffic and lack of choice. If you only eat processed preprepared food I'm sure Walmart will do. I have not enjoyed the Walmart experience and do not shop there. And I'm willing to pay the price. 

If I don't shop at Walmart, I can ride my bike to the store and not shop as if for armageddon.

Not that Albertson's are the greatest, but I prefer choice and prefer not to have to drive to an overcrowded, overstuffed store, with tons of choice that is no choice at all, and a really poor produce section.

Sorry if you can afford to kayak/raft/canoe/boat you can afford to make wise choices that reflect the community in which you want to live. Unamerican, yep.

Sarah


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## Rushis Right

Sarah, thats just we need is another lib chiming in. Albertsons is still a corporate entity. Couldn't you find a real neigborhood market with great produce and family owned. Sorry you might have to ride your tubby little self a little further.


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## sj

Rush is right goes right to the typical and usuall pale male conservative argument. Mean spirited personel attack. Ris R we realize to be a Bush Christian you have to be Sexist and Racist but if you could keep your hateful drivel off this site it would be appreciated. Steve


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## Rushis Right

Racist? Against fat people come on, youv'e got to be kidding me. Sexist, what are talking about. How about you grow a pair Steve.


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## newby0616

Boy, SJ, looks like "RisR" told you.... :roll: Rush, maybe I'm a little off-base here in jumping to conclusions (you know, tree-hugging outdoorsy overeducated self-righteous pot-smoking xanax-popping liberal that I am-- just to spell out anything you might want to call me on in the future... oh, and I'm sure you're probably creative enough to add some personal shit in there too.... since obesity's already taken, looks like I'm headed for being the token truckdrivindieseldyke in this discussion), but don't you think a better plan for winning friends and influencing people is to at LEAST charm the pants off of them while you're blatantly screwing them from behind or throwing 'em under the train? I mean, seriously.... whatever happened to that good old fashioned sly and manipulative reptilian angle the Republicants used to be so fond of taking? It used to be that the bottom-feeding man in the $2000 suit would smile sweetly and be all charm and sparkle while he quietly pocketed your grandmother's social security check and double-checked his blackberry to confirm that lunch meeting with the nice lobbyist he's accepting kickbacks from to ship your uncle's job overseas to China. Now, it's all about personal attack, bile, venom, and vitriol.... sigh... kinda makes ya' wish for the good ole' days of Newt & Reagan, eh? 

Puh-lease.
Take your trolling somewhere else. If you wanna go boating/ boarding/ out to play in that landscape your party seems so hellbent on destroying sometime, hook us up with a post or two. If not, fuckin' *yawn*......

Flame away. BSoE, not that ya' need it, but you know the rest of us got ya' back, baby.


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## Yonder_River

Just watched an interesting Frontline special on PBS about Walmart and it's practices. I'd recommend everyone taking a look at it, even the bloated dittoheads out there. 

Here's a good example on how Walmart helps American's. An American manufacturer of flat-screen tv's located in Tennessee was having trouble competing because China was dumping (later found to be illegally dumping) large quantities of below market priced tv's into the U.S. This was a clear violation of free trade agreements already in place. The manufacturer filed a lawsuit to save the company and it's thousands of employees from certain unemployment. 

Who do you think good ol' Walmart sided with? The US of A? Fuck no. They supported China all the way. Luckily the U.S. manufacturer won the lawsuit.

That plant could have easily shut down, taking thousands of $16/hour jobs with good benefits with it. Then they'd put up a Walmart in the small town and offer the recently laid off workers $7.50 with no benefits. Sounds like a benefit to our country huh? The thing is, this isn't uncommon and most of the time, Walmart wins. 

For the life of me, I can't understand why righties blindly defend this place without opening their eyes a bit. I'm not against profit or corporations by any means, but it's nice to see some corporations who have a good balance between what's good for their shareholders and what's good for the country.


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## sj

Trolling a troll he he he.  .Look pal for all I know you could be a bored hippy in Boulder. Dabbing pachoulie oil on your privates as you surf between teen fatties and the buzz. But who ever you are you went to the trouble of multiple id's to mess with liberals on the board. And then wer'nt bright enough to know when you were getting messed with. He he he. Calling women who don't agree with you fat and challenging the man hood of men that don't agree with you. You've most likely been out of 7th grade for awhile time to act like it little man. heeheeheee sj


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## newby0616

SJ,
Good to see we're both operating under the same policy-- why should MedMan/Rush/NeoCon Boater get to have all the baiting fun?? 

I'm bored at work (read: already too busy and trying to ignore it).... watching people take themselves FAR too seriously and make asses of themselves is far more entertaining-- I figure I've never been much of one for just standing around blithely on the sidelines anyway.


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## conservative boater

I am sick of the fact that to be right, you have to be a liberal or democrat. And that conservatives and republicans are mean spirited, greedy, evil and flat out wrong. And lets not kid ourselves about the ad-hominem arguments here. I have been acused of being greedy, stupid, etc., all in an attempt to discredit me, and my arguement. But the bottom line is that I am not wrong, and greed is good. Its human nature to be self satisfying, to want the best for yourself; before you can look out for the needs of those around you. Maybe we all wish that we could be a little more giving every day, and a little less greedy and a little less self serving. But the fact is, I'm not giving you the shirt off my back if its my last one. And if you disagree with me, go put yourself in that situation, and then come talk to me. This is the game that we play, and its a harsh one. There is no room for those who can't take the heat. If you don't like it, get out. Go to Europe and enjoy the economic decay. I'll stay here in an environment that champions the free market, which more than ANYTHING has made this country great, and will continue to make it great, carrying everyone from Walmart consumers, to Walmart execs and stockholders with it.


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## Rushis Right

Hey CB. I just got a sweet deal on a TV at Walmart.


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## sj

You're not wrong about the free market. look at my first post in this thread. Where the right has gone sorley wrong is your support bush or you're a terrorist attitude. If non conservatives could support the economic and war polocy of of the right with out having to also embrace a huge intrusive federal gov. and the use of the Constitution to discriminate. You might be suprised at the support the first 2 would get from the rest of the country. sj


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## cma

Can we all just agree that WalMart sucks as a store period, I'm not talking about their policies or anything, just their store, you get what you pay for.. Therr are also many other chains out there that don't provide benefits and insurance for part time employees as well, that is pretty much the norm in retail as well as hospitality. Now and then you can find someone that does but it's pretty rare. Mom and Pop shops are pretty hard pressed to offer these benefits to thier employees as well. I also don't feel sorry for Albertsons, they are listed as the second largest retail chain behing Walmart and they can't get their act together just like Sears and KMart. They will be swallowed up in their own incompetance. I think Target has ok benefits, nothing outstanding as well as Costco.. I would like to see the plans of all these companies compared to see what the real norm is and then where do you draw the line there? Do you protest and try to bring down every company with the same policy no matter how small? or do you just continue the status quo of only Walmart sucks?


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## Yonder_River

[ But the bottom line is that I am not wrong, and greed is good. Its human nature to be self satisfying, to want the best for yourself; before you can look out for the needs of those around you. Maybe we all wish that we could be a little more giving every day, and a little less greedy and a little less self serving. But the fact is, I'm not giving you the shirt off my back if its my last one. [/quote]


No one is saying to give the only shirt off your back. Your making a mountain out of a molehill. 

Greed is good to a certain extent, but economic prosperity and a level playing field for everyone, no matter what circumstances they were born into, is needed to ensure a strong, safe, and prosperous country. 

And can you please explain further by what you mean with European decay? They have their share of problems too, but at least they aren't owned by China. Do you have any concept of how much debt we have with that country (over 500 billion)? If they wanted to, they could send us into an economic tailspin like no other. What do you think is financing this war and what fiscally responsible politicians are administering all of this? 

I don't think Republicans are always wrong, nor do I think Democrats are always right- but your party has changed direction quite a bit from the days of Eisenhower. Fiscal responsibility, accountability, etc..


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## BastrdSonOfElvis

"I am sick of the fact that to be right, you have to be a liberal or democrat. And that conservatives and republicans are mean spirited, greedy, evil and flat out wrong. "

I'm sick of that fact, too. Sure wish it would change. Doubt it will any time soon, though. 

And my mom would break your little pencil dick like a match stick. She did ride the King, after all.

And your mom aint much to look at, but she says some dirty shit in bed! I like that. Doesn't mind the paper bag, much either...at leas after I cut some eye holes in it.


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## El Flaco

double post


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## El Flaco

Yeah, you gotta love a company whose corporate strategy includes allowing the Federal Government via Medicaid (yes, that would be our tax dollars) to cover the uninsured...so they can post a larger profit. It's a fact- a Wal-Mart exec was bragging in an email that they can easily shift the cost of employee insurance to taxpayers. They keep the number of part-time workers deliberately high in order to do this. Talk about being on the government teat; although that has long been a neo-conservative contradiction. 

"In Florida, where the company has received more than $51 million in incentives since 1981, Wal-Mart, has more employees and family members enrolled in Medicaid than any company in the state. That means state taxpayers - many of whom live paycheck to paycheck - foot the bill for more than 12,000 workers and dependents. In West Virginia, 452 people  the most for any employer in the state  listed Wal-Mart on their applications with the states Childrens Health Insurance Program. And in California, a study showed taxpayers spend $32-million a year providing health care to Wal-Mart workers and $54-million a year in other assistance such as free school lunches and food stamps." It's not like they can't afford it - almost $300 billion in sales last year - they only care about eking that last fraction of a percent out of their profit margin. Right for the shareholders? Arguably, yes- although their might come a time when their socially irresponsible practices begins to hurt their business. Right for American taxpayers? Not unless you like giving a subsidy to a $300B /yr company, and you believe in a fair economic playing field. 

What about the Wal-Mart workers that do get insurance? Even with health insurance, the deductibles, which range from $350 to $1,000 for a single person, make a doctor's visit a financial nightmare for those "underprivileged" workers. There is a six-month waiting period for full-time employees to become eligible for coverage, and a two-year waiting period for part-time employees, whose dependents are never eligible for coverage under Wal-Mart's health insurance plan. (Anyone who works less than 34 hours per week is considered part-time.) I don't know about your company, but most provide coverage in less than 3 months, some immediately.

Oh, and immigrants? Wal-Mart uses them to take jobs from "underprivileged" Americans. Take this with a grain of salt, because it IS from that liberal rag "Forbes Magazine": http://www.forbes.com/business/services/2005/03/18/cz_mm_0318wmt.html 

Let's not forget that they're being sued for gender bias in their hiring practices too: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A62004-2004Jun22_2.html

I have no problem with the defense of the free market system- but it's ignorant to believe that it's ever been totally "free"; just like there's no pure democracy. If shareholder wealth were held above all over values, RushConBoater's 8 year old children would be filling painkiller tablet orders at the Wal-Mart pharmacy well into a 60 hour workweek. And if they didn't like it, their job would be given to the immigrant child happy to take it. The fact remains that if industries are left totally unfettered and unregulated, society pays the price- from worker safety in Mining to avoiding insurance for Wal-Mart employees. 

States are beginning to take action against Wal-Mart practices -Georgia (a Red state even!) passed a law to require companies to report on the number of employees enrolled in state healthcare systems. 

You would like to think that Wal-Mart is giving all those Americans a chance to start that American dream; but that's not in their financial interest to promote that. They don't need or want educated ambitious people to work for them. And to say that Wal-Mart "produces jobs" is not always the case- "A recent projection by the University of Illinois at Chicago's Center for Urban Economic Development concluded that the proposed West-Side Chicago store likely would yield a net decrease of about 65 jobs after that Wal-Mart opens, as other retailers in the same shopping area lose business. A study cited in Business Week as showing modest retail gains after Wal-Mart's open actually reported net job losses counting effects on warehousing and surrounding counties."

And it's not that a corporation can't be stewards of their own community and still post profits. Look at Costco: http://abcnews.go.com/2020/Business/story?id=1362779

The bottom line for Wal-Mart is this: We don't necessarily wish for its destruction. I applaud their effort in Aurora to make the switch to sustainable building materials. A democratic society has an obligation to keep the powerful (corporate or political) in check, and by putting concerns in front of the public eye, that in turn can influence shareholders to influence Wal-Marts management. If you want to support a company who chooses to continue to avoid the "right thing", go right ahead. But at least get your facts right, and if you don't care about worker's rights & corporate handouts; by all means, shop to hearts content. But when you make grand suppositions and anecdotal stretches to justify excessively greedy behavior, you can expect us to jump your shit with some facts.

You don't have to step on someone else's neck to be a successful company (or for that matter a successful society, or a successful individual. Or EVEN a true conservative). I'm not claiming that 'democrat' or 'liberal' is right- but the NeoConservative movement supports an unsustainable philosophy of greed-is-good to such a degree that a few will prevail (such as the Waltons, the Bushes, and the Kenneth Lays of the world) while the rest of the country will falter. The economy isn't made up of individual bootstrappers that make it through no help from anyone else- it's very much like a living ecosystem that functions best when all its parts are healthy. 

If democratic leadership is so bad for America, why are the periods of sustained and healthy growth so largely favor periods of democratic majorities and/or presidencies? The facts are here: http://www.eriposte.com/economy/other/demovsrep.htm
If you're so financially motivated, maybe that'll speak to you. Next time, bring some freakin' facts to an argument- if we want Talking Points we can tune to Fox News. 

PS- and by the way, I think I'll pass at a chance to actually go boating with you, RushConBoater- you might decide not to throw me a rope because of some financial cost to yourself.


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## rasdoggy

Just a ? here. 
I work and pay taxes, then draw unemployment/welfare or medicaid/mediccare for what ever reason, am I not getting back what I put in? Or is that sucking off the tax payers of America, which I was one of?

If you are looking for good products you go where they are sold, if you looking for kraft blue box you go to walmart where it is half the price of the local grocery store.
Simple as that.
Everyone has a bitch about something.


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## BastrdSonOfElvis

El Flaco for pres in '08! BSOE for...vice pres?


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## conservative boater

BSoE, did I touch a nerve? Don't be so sensitive because I'm you're father. That's right, just call me King, biotch. And I thought you had had enough of reading this thread!!!!? Peace out, to yo mama.


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## newby0616

Man, Wal-Mart's insurance deductable is only $350 - $1000? Where do I sign up?? Not kidding around here: I work for a division of one of this nation's largest HOSPITAL corporations, but healthcare is one of the most notorious fields out there for shafting their employees when it comes to benefits and insurance??? :evil: 

As a single person, I have a $1200 annual deductable, with $45 office visits, and $35 co-pays on scripts. NO LIE. I also have a "$1000 minimum payment" for any ER visit. I draw a reasonable salary, what some might even consider a good salary depending on your perspective. Howver, when it comes to healthcare, I feel like the epitomy of "working poor"-- I literally can't afford to be sick. The market in our geographic area is tilted towards the Frists' HCA-affiliated facilities, meaning that our company's facilities have no foothold in the area. 

Flaco,
Did you happen to see the PBS documentary on Wal-Mart several months back? Investigative reporters went to India(??) (maybe Indonesia or Malayasia instead-- I don't remember?) to inspect working conditions and factories, then after being cited for labor violations, those companies went back to Wal-Mart and tried to work something out to raise workers' salaries by literally pennies. There was an exchange that took place regarding adding $.02 -$.03 to employee wages-- to which Wal-Mart responded, "You know, we're glad you brought this to our attention. Actually, we need you to do it for $.03-$.04 *LESS* per person than you are right now, or else we'll take our business to China where they haven't had all these pesky labor reforms." Nice. The documentary included segments filmed in factory worker camps, replete with small bamboo homes housing 6 or 7 families each, filthy children bathing and drinking polluted water, people coming and going at all hours, women working 30 hour shifts, etc etc etc. The crowning glory was when the film crew brought a woman who'd worked in the factories to a Wal-Mart in the US, where she went inside and found a shelf of sweatpants she'd sewn selling PER PAIR for more than she made in about 6 months time.... makes you feel all warm and fuzzy inside, no?? :x


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## CGM

Now this is what I call entertainment for the work day! Keep the posts coming. I'm running out of ways to kill time, and am in danger of actually doning something today.


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## BastrdSonOfElvis

If I can't be vice pres then could I be undersecretary of conservative boater's mom? (cuz she likes to be on top  )

(that's my "Oh" face, a la Office Space)


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## badkins

Newby0616, I think that was probably frontline.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/walmart/



> "If people were only consumers, buying things at lower prices would be just good. But people also are workers who need to earn a decent standard of living," says economist Larry Mishel of the Economic Policy Institute. "The dynamics that create lower prices at Wal-Mart and other places are also undercutting the ability of many, many workers to earn decent wages and benefits and have a stable life."
> 
> Economist Brink Lindsey of the Cato Institute sees it another way. "I think Wal-Mart is good for America," he says. "Wal-Mart is doing what the American economy is all about, which is producing things consumers want to buy  offering consumers a wide range of goods at rock-bottom prices. It is meeting the market test."


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## WhiteLightning

I think this post has been beaten to death. I challenge you guys to come up with something more interesting, preferably not politics. Then maybe we can move this below the top 5 for good!

Also, "liberals are dumb", and "your mom is dumb", and "that's not what she said last night" and changing screen names and shit is boring me too.

One off topic mention, that I guess in on topic for the site in general... I did manage to buy several monster "Ozark Trail" (walmart brand) PVC dry bags that so far have worked just as well as my NRS ones for super cheap. They come in different sizes and are in the camping section. 

Let's see if there are any non-lame threads we can start now.


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## sj

Well Mr. Lightning at least your Moms not boring! :shock: sorry couldn't resist sj


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## Rushis Right

I really don't understand why this an actual discussion Walmart is good and if you don't want to shop there don't. Money talks and bullshit walks. You won't change my mind because I'm the greeter at the Sheirdan Super Walmart, so say hello when you come in because you guys are full of shit and I know you shop there I've seen you. So shop where the Oxycontin is cheap and the women are cheaper. Later


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## newby0616

Dude, if we wanted to shop where the drugs are "cheap" and the "women are cheaper," we'd just save ourselves a trip to WallyWorld and drive to the corner where your sister works instead ......


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## BastrdSonOfElvis

Oh, yeah I forgot...I nailed his sister, too. What can I say, I get around.


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## El Flaco

I heard about that Frontline sweatpants story, but I haven't seen either the PBS spot or the Wal-Mart "High Cost of Low Price" documentary. Gotta see both of them. 

On a semi-related note, I highly recommend everyone see the new documentary "Why We Fight" by Eugene Jarecki, coming out on 1/20. 

http://www.sonyclassics.com/whywefight/

I saw this last year at the Sundance Film Festival. Powerful, and I believe it comes from a more grounded perspective than documentaries of recent years (a' la' Michael Moore). He includes interviews with some stalwarts of the NeoCon movement like Bill Kristol and Richard Pearle- although his conclusions regarding the rise of the Military Industrial Complex become obviously slanted towards a "warning", it comes as close to a balanced presentation that you'll find in a documentary. (Jarecki also directed "The Trials of Henry Kissinger"- also highly recommended.)

The reason I bring this up is that it speaks to some of the most basically philosophical ideas about what kind of culture we are, and where the ends of the political spectrum are trying to drive us in the future.


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## conservative boater

Well, I just gave your mom a douche and watched her crap it into you're dad's mounth. Fecofelia is disgusting. I'm done trying to hang out with you're mama anymore. And by the way, you sick pedifile, my sister is only eight. I bet you would......., you sick, sick man from a twisted family. Blaaaah!!!!!


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## conservative boater

That was for BSoE!!!!!!! This is fun!!!!! I feel like I'm 10 again.


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## conservative boater

Except I didn't know how to spell douche when I was 10. I still can't spell fecophelia(?)


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## El Flaco

:x triple post :evil:


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## El Flaco

Maybe I ought to switch back to Explorer- Mozilla keeps double posting. :?


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## El Flaco

For those who like to check out documentaries: http://www.freedocumentaries.org/


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## gh

Jeez medman, first you were a doctor and now a wm greeter?

El Flaco, netflix has it so i added it to my queue.


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## BastrdSonOfElvis

Dude, your sis slipped me some E and took advantage of me.

That documentary looks good...I wonder how far I'll have to drive to see it. Doubt it will play in Ecclesiastic Springs.


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## newby0616

Dude, BSoE, do you know what's *really* funny?


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## newby0616

Posting a post!


... then posting your own witty/ perverted/ coprophagic/ scatological response to it!


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## newby0616

-- Like this?

I know!

-- How funny!

:roll:


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## Rushis Right

Sorry douchbags I'm not madman but I am a Walmart Greeter. I don't know who medman is but he sounds pretty cool. Not some leftwing chump with bitchtits. Losers


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## El Flaco

Sad little man, "Rushis Right". Another non-boating internet ToughGuy neocon. Very predictible, just like your buddy ConBoater - the minute someone actually presents a reasoned argument with facts, you gotta resort to name-calling.

Feel free to fire away a few more silly epitaphs (golly, that 'loser' comment really hurt!). Anything else to add to the discussion? Or do you need to call Mr. Limbaugh in order to know what to think?


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## newby0616

...

Flaco, I'm sorry to have momentarily hijacked, seeing as your posts have been about the only intelligent, coherent thing going on this thread in a while. Unfortunately, it looks like just about all the fun's been sucked outta this one, as we're back to that reliable old name-calling and poop-chat again. :roll:


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## El Flaco

Yeah- too bad. I quite enjoyed administering a good ol' intellectual butt-whoopin'. :lol:


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## mr. compassionate

Bastard, you obviously have not even the most rudimentary knowledge of economics. Please do yourself and us a favor and read "The Wealth of Nations" by Adam Smith. You may not look like such an imbecile with a little education.


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## newby0616

Ahem,
Mr. Compassionate....

Perhaps before you go slinging your cartload of intellectual insults, you might want to check that attitude at the door (which is quite obviously the same place you left your 7th grade grammar textbook) and go re-read your post. As "obvious" as Mr. Bastard's purported lack of economic insight may be to you, it's clear to me that *some* folks around here are lacking even the "most rudimentary knowledge" of sentence structure and the English language. (Isn't this the same thing you conservatives are so swift to throw screaming tantrums over with immigrants? Their lack of understanding of, and/ or inability to correctly use our language....? But I digress.....) 

It's quite clear to me that one grumpy conservative was most likely out back smoking pot (with the same liberal hippie kids he's so quick to insult and "put in their places" today) the day the nice lady with the short skirt and long legs stood in front of his bland little suburban classroom and tried to teach a room full of bored youth all about dependent clauses and prepositional phrases. You see, Conservative, if that weren't the case, I would assume you _*might've*_ otherwise learned a thing or two about making a prepositional phrase agree with its object.... 

"You may not look like such an imbecile with a little education"?
Hmmm.... actually, it's not Mr. Bastard who looks like an "imbecile with a *little education*," my friend. I'll let you guess, however, who *does* look like the moron with a limited education. Otherwise, that person might've thought to structure their sentence so that our token "imbecile" was modified by the condition of his education, rather than described as having a small one. 

BTW, if you need some help figuring out how it _should_ read, it's: "With a little education, you may not look like such an imbecile," preferably followed by the words "after all"-- thus indicating to your reader that the imbecile's education would be enhanced as a result of completing the task at hand.


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## super.lucky.wonder.boy

*Wall-Mart*

Have any of you heard of social darwinism? (I hope I spelled that right)It's like survival of the fittest except in economy. The strongest company survives. It's nature, there is nothing you, or any one else can do about it. Reality is definitive, (OOH big words) if any one really cared about what is happening to "the little guy" then the vast majority of them wouldn't be shoping at that grand creation magiked down from the heavens. Hence that very small group of Wall-Mart haters or that really big group of hipocrits (thats probably you) are full of shit.


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## poudreraft

I don't like Wal Mart either and I just don't shop there. People will continue to go there because of the low prices, but maybe you can educate your friends why it is better to shop elsewhere. Kroger(city market, King soopers) is a huge corporation so it's not like they are a mom and pop store. Personally I started shopping at K-mart much more after watching Bowling for Columbine, I was impressed that they took the ammunition of the shelves, Wal-mart would never do that. Vote with your money, if you don't like Wal- Mart don't shop there, pretty much all you can do.


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## El Flaco

> Have any of you heard of social darwinism? (I hope I spelled that right)It's like survival of the fittest except in economy. The strongest company survives. It's nature, there is nothing you, or any one else can do about it. Reality is definitive, (OOH big words) if any one really cared about what is happening to "the little guy" then the vast majority of them wouldn't be shoping at that grand creation magiked down from the heavens.



I have heard of Social Darwinism. Contrary to your simplistic definition, it encompasses more than just economic theory. You're referring to almost pure laissez-faire economics - a theory that says that markets left to their own regulation will find equilibrium. Now, most capitalistic free market systems support components of laissez-faire theory, it functions poorly in practice. Civilized societies that protect the interests of the people by regulating industries that would functions adversely if left to its most profitable practices. If left unregulated, the energy industry would operated devoid of environmental controls, thereby increasing mercury levels in our food chain vis-à-vis fish, and Super Lucky Wonder Boy would have super-unlucky babies born without eyes. 

Now, that's an extreme example, but the Wal-Mart discussion is debatable. And, as the Maryland legislature proved last week, there is something we (society) can do about it. In this case, society (not the specific industry) is working to establish the equilibrium. Wal-Mart may decide that they don't want to do business in Maryland, and that's their choice. But there is an economic penalty for Wal-Mart (in lost profits from exiting MD) and perhaps an economic penalty for MD in lost jobs and tax revenues if Wal-Mart leaves. 

Only an idiot (or a extreme capitalist seeking a monopolistic play on a market without regard to society) would suggest the pure laissez-faire doctrine you're promoting. ALL governments have some component of regulation, and that's exactly what happened in Maryland. 

As for any of us being a "hipocrit", that would imply that we secretly shop a Wal-Mart. I think that's what you're saying, although generally you're a little hard to get a read on ("Reality is definitive"? How about, "Redundant is repetitive.....yeah....I like how that sounds!). Those who are critical of Wal-Marts practices are certainly in the minority to those who shop there, but the hypocritical action would be the folks out there who support unethical corporate behavior while professing to be "my brother's keeper". 

But thanks for playing.


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## cemartin

Hey everyone,
Thanks for the comments. Some were very interesting and some were cheap shots. I guess the bottom line is that we should educate our friends and family about Walmart, and hope some people realize what a bad company it is. Oh... by the way... the good news is that Albertson's has decided to stay open. I don't know why they reversed their decision, but I'm happy that they did.
Curtis


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## Dano the mano

every one seems to make walmart out to be this big evil coorporation but in actuallity it is a well thought out buisness and everyone is pissed because no one else is doing as well as they are this is capitilism at it best. mabey albersons needs to rethink there business plan and restructure. I won't lie competing with walmart prices is not easy. mabey albersons should move into distributing if they can't make it in the retail aspect of the buisness. the market will essentialy determan what will happen to albersons and albersons will be forced to move into a different aspec of the buissness and specialize.


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## El Flaco

Dano- 
I know this sounds harsh, but you ought to sue Ft. Leisure to get your tuition money back. Seriously. That was just plain painful to read. Your grasp on spelling and grammar underscores an even greater lack of understanding of business principles. Besides, this is a discussion in Business Ethics, not whether what they do is sound business strategy.


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## thedude1683

Walmart employs more people than any other company in America... Our citizens like to have jobs, get paid, feed their families etc. So whats the problem? not as good benefits? GO JOIN A UNION THIS IS A FREE MARKET ECONOMY!


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## El Flaco

> GO JOIN A UNION THIS IS A FREE MARKET ECONOMY!


Pay attention, this has been covered. This is not a "Free Market Economy" - it's a mixed economy with some free market principles like deregulation. Understand that what WalMart is accused of doing is deliberately passing on the cost of insuring its workforce to the Goverment, or to put in in plain terms, the TAXPAYERS - some estimates put this figure at around $2300 per employee. 

There are certainly other corporations and even government jobs (teachers, specifically) where this occurs, but Wal-Mart is the most visible because they are the largest & therefore have the biggest social and economic impact. 

As for Unions, WalMart is also accused of "Union busting"; including shading tactics like hiring temporary workers to skew union votes, or shutting down the store altogether. 

There's a fairly detailed write-up of Walmart's criticism here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Wal-Mart

Start by educating yourself and THEN decide you should criticize folks for boycotting Wal-Mart. If you're OK with: 
1. Covering the costs of health care for their workers while they post record profits
2. While "Providing jobs for Americans", they import billions of dollars worth of Chinese-produced goods- which in turn moves jobs from the US to China. Recent estimates show that the trade imbalance with China has resulted in the loss of over a MILLION jobs for Americans (not all Walmart's fault, of course, but their imports from China may reflect up to 10% of all imports into the US.)

..then by all means, shop at Wally World. But if you think that Wal-Mart is a great American company that is looking after Americans, it's a good idea to take a really close look as to how they could be a better corporate citizen.


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## wholesurfer

*wal mart*

hey i was jackin off the other day...when.....get my point..who gives a fu*k about grocery stores..this is river post...stick to it


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## Jobu

When walmart struck the deal to move into the Vail Valley, they got (and I can't quite remember how many) somewhere between 5-10 years where they will not have to pay taxes. 

Walmart sells cheap crap, the bottom of the barrel, however there are no other choices around here.

Walmart's meats, and produce are of sub-standard quality. So eat it, but just remember the word GIGO. =Garbage In Garbage Out.

They treat employees like shit and do not use business ethics. They are a company designed for making money. Period

Are they to blame??? Partly for starting a business like that in the first place. However most of the blame should be on us, because we dont have the will to not shop there and by shopping there we are supporting the unethical treatment of employees, the closing of other businesses in townships, and we are helping them to open new stores elsewhere. Its like a Spreading disease. 

I mean hey lets send a message to all the people in the usa and especially to the children that "Its ok if you fuck people over and do every wormy thing you can....as long as you get rich doing it" " Ya kids, forget all those morals we taught you, who cares as long as you get rich? "


Fuck walmart and fuck those 2 dickbags that are spamming up the post with pro walmart speeches. Like "greed is good", what the fuck is that? Pretend you were talking to a child, would you tell them that?


YEA UMM... LETS GO BOATING NOW....


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## El Flaco

Werd- I'll drop it. My main beef is with ignorant people anyway, not necessarily with Wal-mart defenders.

I'm fired up for an Escalante beatdown this weekend...see ya'll there.


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