# Anyone have Rapid beta for the Middle Fork?



## kayakfreakus (Mar 3, 2006)

Get the guide from Matt Leidecker, MF of Salmon River comprehensive guide that has low and high water descriptions/routes. It worked out well for my first trip, and i just got the river maps guide to middle and main for a main trip and it looks decent. Between the two it should help out a bit.

Have a early June launch as well and this year looks to be more manageable then some, we will see how it plays out. Being a kayaker I can't speak to rowing the rapids but heard many say stay inside on every corner with high water and be ready for continous fast water. Can't wait!!


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## bucketboater (Jul 9, 2012)

rsmiller said:


> Have an early June launch... never rowed it. Looking for some rapid beta for the major rapids.
> 
> Anyone willing to offer some?
> 
> ...


 Try You Tube and then typing "middle fork salmon". A vid is worth a million words. Ill be at the put in june 5th.


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## BarryDingle (Mar 13, 2008)

Rubber is usually pretty large.


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## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

BarryDingle said:


> Rubber is usually pretty large.


except when it is not. Ran it under 2', didn't realize I was going into it (baby sheep distracted me, keeping the dogs from noticing them) and ran the right side of the rocks. Right side of rocks you say? That's what I said, then I read Matt's description and he said there is a sneaky line over there. Well I didn't sneak over there, it kind of snuck me over there.


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## Avatard (Apr 29, 2011)

lhowemt said:


> except when it is not. Ran it under 2', didn't realize I was going into it (baby sheep distracted me, keeping the dogs from noticing them) and ran the right side of the rocks. Right side of rocks you say? That's what I said, then I read Matt's description and he said there is a sneaky line over there. Well I didn't sneak over there, it kind of snuck me over there.


My experiences have been at 3.4, 2.2 and 2.1. Maybe its cause of my Cat but rubber was a tiny wave train. At 6' however?


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## BarryDingle (Mar 13, 2008)

Everytime I've seen it in the 4+ level,it was big. Usually felt like the Standout rapid. Watched it stand up a loaded Sweep boat at 4.5ft.


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## Brotorboat (Apr 14, 2009)

Rubber at around 4' and up is no joke. The laterals coming off the left wall can EASILY flip a boat.


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## carvedog (May 11, 2005)

FWIW Rubber is not so big at 7+ feet. At 4.5 to 5.5 it can't be munchy. As long as you keep Ting up to the left laterals ( there are two big ones) it is fun as shit.

Lake Creek wasn't mentioned in the OPs rundown which suggests old info. 

If you go into that section without knowing where and what it is. It is a pretty awesome hike from the river right scout to even hike over to Pistol Creek and see how that whole delta evolved into the river. I personally don't like to scout, but a cool hike for geologic evolutionary purposes is different. 

Unfortunately unless things change you will not see it over 4 feet in early June. 

4 feet is kind of where I cut off running right at Redside. The middle is busy but fun. Watch out for the submerged conical rock in the outlfow from the meat of the rapid. Run far left if you need or stay center. It is in the center left outflow. Grabby bastard too. 

Dora's rock is easy as long as you don't try too hard to go left although you can it is a tougher pull than it looks. There is an easy right run I think even down to three feet or lower. It gets bony(er) but better than being stamped on the rock. It is a very large black, flat topped, pickup sized rock that sticks up right in the middle of the river about two miles in. After a right turn and in the middle of bigger left turn. I've seen that one surprise a few people. 

And always go right in Jack Creek. 

Have a ball.


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## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

I agree with carve, 3.5-4' it is deep. At 6' it is smooth


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## rsmiller (Jun 28, 2004)

So just to be clear we are talking about this rapid. It seems like down the tounge with the bow slightly into the large left latteral should do it...

Rubber Rapid, 4 feet, Raft Flip - YouTube


Rubber Rapid, 4 feet, 16' cataraft - YouTube


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## 6FEETandRISING (Feb 15, 2012)

carvedog said:


> Dora's rock is easy as long as you don't try too hard to go left although you can it is a tougher pull than it looks. There is an easy right run I think even down to three feet or lower. It gets bony(er) but better than being stamped on the rock. It is a very large black, flat topped, pickup sized rock that sticks up right in the middle of the river about two miles in. After a right turn and in the middle of bigger left turn. I've seen that one surprise a few people.



I think you mean "Doors Rock" never heard it called Dora's. Doors Rock does catch a lot of people off guard as it forces you to choose which way to go around it. It is a significant wrap hazard in the upper section around mile 2 after Cable hole as the river swings around a corner hard left.


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## carvedog (May 11, 2005)

Just what I was told the name was. Door's Rock makes more sense as it gives you the inside or the outside Door. 

Didn't know who Dora was but figured she must have done something wrong to get that rock named after her.


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## Avatard (Apr 29, 2011)

rsmiller said:


> So just to be clear we are talking about this rapid. It seems like down the tounge with the bow slightly into the large left latteral should do it...
> 
> Rubber Rapid, 4 feet, Raft Flip - YouTube
> 
> Rubber Rapid, 4 feet, 16' cataraft - YouTube


That flip looks like the boater got turned and wasn't t-d into the wave. I think 5' its a lot bigger. I would assume when you launch it may be around 5. The river changes year to year. Boulders move, things get washed out. I would scout everything at least from your boat and exercise judgement when a more detailed scout is required (pistol, tappan, etc). I would never use a YouTube video as gospel


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## Avatard (Apr 29, 2011)

carvedog said:


> Just what I was told the name was. Door's Rock makes more sense as it gives you the inside or the outside Door.
> 
> Didn't know who Dora was but figured she must have done something wrong to get that rock named after her.


Yeah, she was an explorer who took it head on


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## carvedog (May 11, 2005)

When I see those big white frothy things I push like hell. What did he pull back for??


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## GoodTimes (Mar 9, 2006)

I don't think I've seen Murph's mentioned....???

About 1 mile from launching at Boundary on a sweeping left turn...following the flow will take you right into it....and it can be substantial above 5ft or so. Fairly easy to miss if you start pulling to the inside...but if you casually float into the hole...LOOK OUT!!  It can cause an interesting first 20 minutes of your trip.

Second Leidecker's...good book.


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## codycleve (Mar 26, 2012)

We launched at 4.28 and I went right through the middle of murphs hole... when I looked down into it I wasn't sure I was comming out... I went into it because I was to heavy but I also went right through it because I was heavy... same with velvet... rubber was big bet just square up for that first lateral that comes from the left.. I took the far right sneek on red side... if you can do it its fun... the one rapid that was almost a spoiler for me was as cannon.. I diddnt pay attention and got surffed in the ledge hole there..


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## festivus (Apr 22, 2006)

You forgot kramer creek...even though it is technically after the confluence it will be the biggest water when you run it. Not that technical but you will not want to be off line.


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## BarryDingle (Mar 13, 2008)

The rapids of the MF are the most fickle rapids,IMO. They change so frequently with the levels...cause everytime I've gotten to Kramer creek it's just been a big,glassy wave. couldn't flip if you tried. Not saying it doesn't get big,Cause obviously it does. just saying the rapids are always changing with the levels. More so than most rivers *it would seem*. Or maybe I'm just really lit right now...

Same (for me) with Hancock and Devils tooth. Those are two I can think of where you had that "THAT was it?" moment.

One things for sure,Dagger is big.


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## codycleve (Mar 26, 2012)

I just went down and looked at kramer two weekends ago..it looked nasty.. I think as a low level rapid it is nasty, but what you should see, at 3 or four it will be an awesome rollercoaster


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## festivus (Apr 22, 2006)

Dagger is in a different class for sure. I have not run kramer in ten years... last time i ran it though it was the only chundering i experienced and it flipped seven out of eight boats while i darted back and forth in my kayak shoppin the yard sale. I am guessing the rapid is clearing out with time since it was a blowout.


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## Avatard (Apr 29, 2011)

Hate to be a dick but why are you giving Seinfeld advice. Be careful at Cramer Creek rapid if you take out past the confluence


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## codycleve (Mar 26, 2012)

Hate to be a dick but why wouldn't to youu take out past the confluence... unless you like pulling your bout up rocky banks when there are two great boat launches down river


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## Avatard (Apr 29, 2011)

Hate to be a dick but its a much longer drive back to Portland than to Salmon. Once I'm out of the impassible canyon the trip is over. 

They were putting a ramp in at the confluence did you happen to see it when you checked out Kramer?


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## festivus (Apr 22, 2006)

Klever quip


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## festivus (Apr 22, 2006)

As a side note, i googled some recent vids of cramer (kramer) creek rapid. It seems the recirculating hole has turned into a flushing wave over the years.


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## codycleve (Mar 26, 2012)

That wasn't a new ramp it was a new pack bridge... and yes I have checked it out...


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## apmcc (Feb 15, 2010)

At early June flows, lower Cliffside can be pretty massive. Hug the inside (left) and it'll be no worries.


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## cataraftgirl (Jun 5, 2009)

Avatard said:


> Hate to be a dick but its a much longer drive back to Portland than to Salmon. Once I'm out of the impassible canyon the trip is over.
> 
> They were putting a ramp in at the confluence did you happen to see it when you checked out Kramer?


It's only 3 miles between the confluence and Cache Bar. I'd hate to miss one of the highlights of the trip......Cramer Creek or as the local guides named it the year after the blowout.....Derigger rapid. It tried to derig your boat for you before you got to Cache Bar. I was through there last July and September. I saw a new bridge being built. Didn't see a new ramp at the confluence. Not as many folks take out there, and since Cache Bar ramp is so close, I doubt it's high on the priority list???????


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## Avatard (Apr 29, 2011)

Either way. Its about 14 hours travel back to Portland. Every year we've made it an option - whoever wants to continue on is welcome to do so - its another hour float if your raft doesn't get derigged, and there is the opportunity for mass confusion at the other takeout

Three trips, three votes for let's just take out here. Majority rules, unlike the Senate. Plus you can still see the middle fork while you derig!

Shit its a bridge? Thought they were upgrading the takeout. Maybe next time


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## cataraftgirl (Jun 5, 2009)

Avatard said:


> Either way. Its about 14 hours travel back to Portland. Every year we've made it an option - whoever wants to continue on is welcome to do so - its another hour float if your raft doesn't get derigged, and there is the opportunity for mass confusion at the other takeout
> 
> Three trips, three votes for let's just take out here. Majority rules, unlike the Senate. Plus you can still see the middle fork while you derig!
> 
> Shit its a bridge? Thought they were upgrading the takeout. Maybe next time


Yep, that would be sweet if it was a new ramp. But, since they're replacing a couple big bridges and doing road work on the other end from Carey to Riggins, I doubt that it's a priority. I have only run Cramer in the fall at low water so I don't know how it is at high water. We always stop to look at it on the way in the Corn Creek for the Main trip though. At low water it's not too bad. Run just right of the big ass hole, then pull away from the big rock on bottom right.


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## hand8272 (May 24, 2011)

I can't imagine tearing down and hauling gear up the bank. Totally not worth it to me when you can go one more hour get another rapid and back your truck right down to the water. What is one hour to the whole trip? Plus way, way easier.


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## Avatard (Apr 29, 2011)

Yep. Avatard


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## carvedog (May 11, 2005)

I run my trips just like Monsanto - you will take out at Cache Bar and you will like it. 

And if you try to take out at dirt bank I will crush you like the organic weed you are.


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## Avatard (Apr 29, 2011)

Ok I'm sold. Will take out at cache if i ever get another permit

Just used to Oregon where people are utter hillbilly idiots at the takeouts


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## Cutch (Nov 4, 2003)

If you really want to take out closer to Oregon, try somewhere near Riggins. Your trip will be twice as good, and get you closer to home at the takeout. Plus, shuttle cost is similar.


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## codycleve (Mar 26, 2012)

Taking out at the confluence and dragging your shit up that bank to skip cramer is like going to Disneyland and climbing over the fence to not ride space mountain...


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