# Is Mountain Buzz Dead?



## lagoonia

Amen Grif. It's terrible now.


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## rtsideup

Word


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## JPG87

Agreed. I've bought a raft, two frames, a kayak, and countless more gear off of here. I prefer it to facebook, but damn it's gone to shit.


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## Fly By Night

I'd expect the sales section to be dead after being useless for 6+ months. I thought about starting a forum with a heart and soul for everyone you migrate to for awhile.


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## Whitewater Worthy Equip

Fly By Night said:


> I'd expect the sales section to be dead after being useless for 6+ months. I thought about starting a forum with a heart and soul for everyone you migrate to for awhile.


If you do, Please come up with a better price point for small business' to participate. The current price point does not make good business when evaluating cost vs revenue.


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## griz

It must be dead.

How do I know?

The pink Yeti cooler has been discontinued yet not a peep of foul play from a single Buzzard!

That’s how!


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## twoguns

*Easy Now*

It is having some trouble, but still works for me.
Does take some tricks to post.
I prefer to facebook or Craigslist.
Hadn't heard about the pink Yeti.....moment of silence here


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## Priceless

If you want to buy this website and create a good job for yourself running it, Private Message me for start up funds.


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## MT4Runner

Fly By Night said:


> I'd expect the sales section to be dead after being useless for 6+ months. I thought about starting a forum with a heart and soul for everyone you migrate to for awhile.



Please do.


After seeing this and another of my favorite forums sold to Vertcial Scope (The evil Maple Syrup Sucking Empire from the Cold North), the forums run on their own inertia pretty well for a couple of years, but slowly die as the "soul" is just not there as it is when it belongs to a human and they nourish it like they would a child or a garden.





Whitewater Worthy Equip said:


> If you do, Please come up with a better price point for small business' to participate. The current price point does not make good business when evaluating cost vs revenue.


It's an insane pricing structure. Our industry is small businesses.

Facebook is OK for discuSsion, but HORRIBLE for archives. And I'd rather donate my intellectual property to another boater than to zuckerberg.


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## BGillespie

MT4Runner said:


> After seeing this and another of my favorite forums sold to Vertcial Scope



RIP PBB.


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## MT4Runner

BGillespie said:


> RIP PBB.



That MT4Runner guy was a dick. Good riddance! Long live MT4Runner!


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## raymo

Well I still enjoy Mountain Buzz, it's not perfect and I understand the other points, boaters have with it too. I personally have learned a lot from the excellent knowledge that is shared on here. One instance is my knowledge of leave-no-trace was definitely lacking, I explained the technique I thought was acceptable to do on the river and a poster explained to me, I was fucking the river up by doing it that way and explained the correct way. Much appreciated. The knowledge and skills of rafters posting here, to me is very enjoyable. Thanks to all, I will hang tight with MB.


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## copperdale

Please, please, please, please no Facebook!


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## Dejan Smaic

Sorry, but Facebook rules with paddling discussions and sales.


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## lmyers

Grif said:


> You can't sell shit here anymore. There's a couple dozen participants that haven't discovered Facebook yet. The archive answers almost any questions the community might have. We've all seen the ads. I think it's time to grow up or shut down!
> 
> Owners: do you want to sell it to someone who cares? Email me. Otherwise, quit half-assing something that used to be cool.



Yep....... you don't see any of the old school members anymore and all the posts are newbs. You pretty much hit the nail on the head.


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## IDriverRunner

I've tried to contact the company that owns this site with intent to buy, but I've never heard back.


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## MNichols

copperdale said:


> Please, please, please, please no Facebook!



AMEN to that..


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## steven

it would be great to have a place WHITEWATER KAYAKERS go to find very up to date info on hazards, rapid changes, meet-ups when traveling through different areas, gears sales, access issues, trip reports, new and obscure runs, and general WHITEWATER KAYAKING info for our region without all the discussion of rafting coolers and bullshit like that. Does this type of thing exist on facebook or anywhere else? What are options for non-facebook, non-social media savvy folks? The Buzz used to be just that years ago. help....


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## Ninja_Nico

Facebook is completely lacking for searchable content. Every post is seen as equal with comments displayed as sub-tier. Posts are sorted chronologically (I think, but I know their algorithms do some monkey business) not by most recent comment as they are in a forum. You cannot filter by content such as river hazard, lost and found, general discussion, classifieds, etc as you can on a forum setting. It's a huge problem that the paddling FB groups are lacking.

But I suppose most people have FB as part of their daily routine so it's easy to move paddling discussions there. 

As a long-time lurker, rear poster, I can commit myself to contributing more to discussions here. More involvement from the community would help keep this thing alive.


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## richp

Hi,

I don't know much about what else is going on, but the Buzz sure used to be a lot more rowdy...

Rich Phillips


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## okieboater

If one of the buzzards have the technical expertise and time to maintain this site, I will be glad to start up a members fund to buy this site.

This site has been a source of information, sharing, laughter and place to buy and sell stuff. I hate to see this site die.

The story goes on. I had the same password for years and yesterday it would not work. I followed instructions several times to reset and the reset link did not get to my email, then late in the day it showed up but the link would not work. I kept getting the error msg and finally gave up. Then this morning I did the reset again, the link showed up in my email and the email reset link worked. Weird stuff happening.


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## rbrain

I had a very brief chat with the owner of the company that runs this site a few years back. There were a few ideas thrown around how the buzz and riverbrain could join up and do some things together (from a technical and software side). Nothing ever really went further than that. From what I could tell that company owned a bunch of niche forums like this. I suppose their main revenue model was around the ad space.

From a pure business perspective, there's not much $ to tap into from the river community. It's a smaller market than say skiing or mountain biking at this time. I pretty much fund and keep riverbrain alive at this point for personal and philanthropic reasons. Mountain buzz will have to determine its reasons for continuing to fund and maintain this site. Maybe with the lack of attention lately they've figure it's not worth it.


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## landslide

So MountainBuzz is full up? No more room for newbies? Jesus, as if we don't hear enough of that Nativist shit in real life! I came to the Buzz a few years ago as a refugee from a great WW kayaking site called Professor Paddle. Professor Paddle is dead. Deader than a door nail. So how did that happen? 

Well, IMO it was a combination of things... the owner/admin got tired of all the time and money it took to keep the site functioning (the gauges no longer updated, the classified section quit working, etc., etc.) and I'm pretty sure the site got hacked and attacked with malware a few times and I think the owner also got personally sued by someone just trying to stir shit. Seriously, who wants to deal with that shit? 

But that wasn't what really killed PP, IMO. What really killed it was the "old school" members from the early days who did their best to drive away newbies and lurkers and people who only post a dozen times a year. (i.e., people who have real lives.) It would take me 30 or 40 years to tally up 1,000 posts. Some of you have three or four times that many posts. Unlike FB, the content you added is still available in the archives, so if you actually said anything useful, I'll be able to search it and read it years from now. Do newbies ask stupid questions about things that have already been discussed to death? Of course they do. But without newbies, this site will die. 

Y'all want to go to FB? Be my guest. Go be Zuckerberg's bitch. FB is a cancer on our society and most of the youngs are like, "Metastasis is so cool!" At least when I post something on the Buzz I don't have to worry about all the contacts on my phone being uploaded and sold to the highest bidder. At least not yet.


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## MNichols

landslide said:


> Y'all want to go to FB? Be my guest. Go be Zuckerberg's bitch. FB is a cancer on our society and most of the youngs are like, "Metastasis is so cool!" At least when I post something on the Buzz I don't have to worry about all the contacts on my phone being uploaded and sold to the highest bidder. At least not yet.



Well said, and an adept explanation of the Zuckerburg business model. 



Interesting read on Zuck and FB and the latest FTC probe...
https://www.chron.com/news/article/Federal-Facebook-investigation-could-hold-13779470.php


It amazes me that given all the negative aspects of FB, that people still use it at all.


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## theusualsuspect

I lurked on MB for a long time, I post from time to time, I found and continue to find use for it. 

I was a young kid without two nickels to rub together so I really did read and find use on the "how to rig your trailer" threads. Myself and a friend self taught how to get into a raft and row it down a river. I used the archives to decide if I could run the stretch, and youtube to scout the rapids. I've gotten a ton of enjoyment of being on the river and all of my knowledge is from this website or personal experience. I don't like facebook, and I've never been akin to large group settings. 

Now I have a few nickels to rub together, and a family to boot. I'm getting them into boating and teaching them the things I learned from here (how to rig a trailer, how to strap a frame to a boat, the difference between a eddy line and a bowline). 

I'm thankful for all the knowledge in the archives here, a place to post dumb questions, and to post drunken stuff to incite a riot. To the experienced people, I understand your frustration but also thank you for your time over the years, there are many people like me out there you have helped beyond what you can comprehend. (As a side note I still miss stupid guide tricks). 

I'm in for a members fund if that becomes a reality. I'd like local and small vendors to have a place to showcase their products as I have found some amazing stuff through their advertising here. 

If it is time for it to die I will shed a tear. I believe the knowledge here exposed me to something that gives me tremendous joy and something I will share with my children and those close to me until I myself die someday. We shall see what happens.


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## griz

lmyers said:


> Yep....... you don't see any of the old school members anymore and all the posts are newbs. You pretty much hit the nail on the head.


This place has been weak for a very long,long time. The new owners suck dick,sure. However,the previous owner’s family friendly vision sucked dick,too. The over moderation enforcing that lame ass, family friendly vision sucked dick. 

And poof...ten years later, you guys sit around wondering where all the cool,edgy fun shit and posters have gone? 

Enjoy the cooler discussions, gents...you guys earned it after all the years of hard work on castrating this place.


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## PoppyOscar

Screw FB, bailed on that cesspool years ago. Mountain Buzz is a great resource for the boating community.


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## protechie

I’ll echo all of these thoughts. I continue to regularly use the MB to get beta (even if it’s old), search the classifieds, and check out gear. Probably couldn’t have gotten so into rafting as I have with out this website, or at least it would have been much harder. I check MB regularly and post occasionally. I’ll continue to do so and I hope the site lasts and improves. 



theusualsuspect said:


> I lurked on MB for a long time, I post from time to time, I found and continue to find use for it.
> 
> I was a young kid without two nickels to rub together so I really did read and find use on the "how to rig your trailer" threads. Myself and a friend self taught how to get into a raft and row it down a river. I used the archives to decide if I could run the stretch, and youtube to scout the rapids. I've gotten a ton of enjoyment of being on the river and all of my knowledge is from this website or personal experience. I don't like facebook, and I've never been akin to large group settings.
> 
> Now I have a few nickels to rub together, and a family to boot. I'm getting them into boating and teaching them the things I learned from here (how to rig a trailer, how to strap a frame to a boat, the difference between a eddy line and a bowline).
> 
> I'm thankful for all the knowledge in the archives here, a place to post dumb questions, and to post drunken stuff to incite a riot. To the experienced people, I understand your frustration but also thank you for your time over the years, there are many people like me out there you have helped beyond what you can comprehend. (As a side note I still miss stupid guide tricks).
> 
> I'm in for a members fund if that becomes a reality. I'd like local and small vendors to have a place to showcase their products as I have found some amazing stuff through their advertising here.
> 
> If it is time for it to die I will shed a tear. I believe the knowledge here exposed me to something that gives me tremendous joy and something I will share with my children and those close to me until I myself die someday. We shall see what happens.


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## LSB

Definite better beta here. 
The only thing FB is good for is looking up pictures of old girlfriends to see how fat they got.


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## cayo 2

Yeah ,besides much better boating related content,we used to have a lively debate in the eddy ...now we have people offended by anyone talking politics on here or on trips..would not want to confront any Trump apologists with fact based reality...nothing but coolers,frames,permits the dirty gov would not issue for the handful of runs rafters do,no stud kayakers insulting doorknobs like me,we actually had people discussing @$$%&ing umbrellas( had to ,sponser and all,)no Mr.F'ing C to chime in with abject misinformation about Venezuela( please please bring it on neo Nazi repubs please!!!!!)...still can't look away,hoping for something worthwhile....I commend Mikesee for posting excellent content....


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## okieboater

If you do not like what is posted on Mountain Buzz, do not visit


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## Dejan Smaic

Facebook is currently the most popular media platform. With that said, I and other prefer FB for "more current" beta, crews, and creek conditions, as well as pics of girlfriends taking a swim. Just sayin...the ads section is non-existent. I've sold all my gear on FB, and there is a reason why. Adapt or die.


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## MNichols

Adapt or Die? Little Harsh there.. But I do get your point. The whole theory behind that statement is what Zuckerberg would love you to latch on to, it's what made him rich selling the data you willingly provide him. 



I'm glad it (FB) seems to work for you, most of the boaters I know that DO use FB are super careful as to what sort of information they post. I went and created a fake account to see what all the hoopla was, and was very surprised at what I found. 



Out of the 10 or so boating pages I visited the sole page that had any worth (for me) was the whitewater dory forum. The rest seemed to be filled with the very same trolls that used to frequent the boating yahoo groups before they died. I think that was one contributing factor to their death, before too long folks tired of the same people repeatedly attacking others with the same vitriol. Shame, as they used to provide a useful forum, that was searchable and archived. 



I guess the old adage, change is inevitable, except from vending machines is appropriate, but I'm going to hang on to the old, and still valuable resource that is Mountain Buzz. . 



My 2¢, your mileage may vary..


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## Gremlin

I used to post a lot. The discussions were lively. i decided long ago to stay out of the arguments and to only post helpful information or a joke. never joined Facebook so I continue to look at MountainBuzz regularly but haven’t had much to add that is already searchable. And a lot more people seem to be asking about fishing than whitewater so I’m no help. I do miss wasting a lot of time on this site though.


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## dirtbag69

Facebook is the devil!


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## iSki

*Thank-you for saying what we've all been thinking*

Griff,


Thanks for finally calling out what we've all been thinking. You've got my vote for best thread of 2019.


MB has not changed in years, the classifieds suck and the latest "feature" is that i now get a worthless email about the posts that are "trending."


The owners need to put some love into the site or release it back into the wild. I've met tons of cool people through MB, researched beta for trips and loved hearing about trips i want to do and watching the videos. 



It would suck if our only option is to bow down to Zuckerberg and his evil empire selling our data. 



Question is what are the options?



Do the new owners even use MB? Can't wait until they weigh in on this post.


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## co_bjread

Darn, I don't want MB to die, I have gotten too many good laughs,too much good info and too many eye rolls from it. I've had my fingers crossed that it was just winter, and once the snow melts and starts filling the rivers, the buzz would come back to life. 

Here's to still waiting.

And I'm always in for a good groover thread, those make me laugh the hardest, and actually have taught me a lot too.


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## co_bjread

Perhaps, I'll just have to sign up for a Groover Seminar.
Hehe


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## markfortcollins

theusualsuspect said:


> I lurked on MB for a long time, I post from time to time, I found and continue to find use for it.
> 
> I was a young kid without two nickels to rub together so I really did read and find use on the "how to rig your trailer" threads. Myself and a friend self taught how to get into a raft and row it down a river. I used the archives to decide if I could run the stretch, and youtube to scout the rapids. I've gotten a ton of enjoyment of being on the river and all of my knowledge is from this website or personal experience. I don't like facebook, and I've never been akin to large group settings.
> 
> Now I have a few nickels to rub together, and a family to boot. I'm getting them into boating and teaching them the things I learned from here (how to rig a trailer, how to strap a frame to a boat, the difference between a eddy line and a bowline).
> 
> I'm thankful for all the knowledge in the archives here, a place to post dumb questions, and to post drunken stuff to incite a riot. To the experienced people, I understand your frustration but also thank you for your time over the years, there are many people like me out there you have helped beyond what you can comprehend. (As a side note I still miss stupid guide tricks).
> 
> I'm in for a members fund if that becomes a reality. I'd like local and small vendors to have a place to showcase their products as I have found some amazing stuff through their advertising here.
> 
> If it is time for it to die I will shed a tear. I believe the knowledge here exposed me to something that gives me tremendous joy and something I will share with my children and those close to me until I myself die someday. We shall see what happens.



Cant agree more! I learned how to kayak in 1998 at Colorado State University (Go Rams!) and after becoming a husband and father, my wife explained, in not so subtle terms, that while wwkayaking was a wonderful and challenging sport, it wasnt really a "family friendly" experience and that we WERE going to buy a raft. I was a bit resistant to the idea of becoming a "rafter", but my love of the rivers and commitment to my wife and boys helped me make a good decision to embrace something new. I would have never imagined how much rafting would change me. Now, nearly 5 years into the conversion (well... not entirely... I still kayak as much as possible and run a non-profit veteran's program for kayaking), I am absolutely consumed by raft trip planning. 

I used MB way back in the day as an early boater, bought gear, linked up with other boaters, etc... after nearly a decade working overseas, I've circled back around to tap MB for boater help again. 

Though the site is old... clunky, and downright frustrating as hell sometimes, I still use the hell out of it. Last year I linked up with new friends via the site for a first time MFS trip, learned a ton about boat trailers, rigging, tables, kitchen, shit... almost every aspect of rafting. 

Hope that whatever happens with the site, that the archive content is still available.


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## Gremlin

and I hope someone writes the novel “Bout Lost My Life Yesterday”


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## LSB

Gremlin said:


> and I hope someone writes the novel “Bout Lost My Life Yesterday”


Agreed,,, No entertainment like that of FaceBook


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## Rivers

I sincerely hope MB is not dead. I don’t post often very few times but I read everything voraciously I guess like a lurker but no shame in that. I didn’t think I was lurking but I’m not PC compliant!! . I have the app but it doesn’t and hasn’t worked for a long time. I’m not a computer person at all and I don’t do FB not even signed up (personal protest) but the amount of river beta that I’ve gotten off MB is amazing. it’s my go to before leaving for a river trip in Idaho. I identify with rafters other than that I’m a loner and generally don’t do ‘chats’ or groups or subscribed emailed sorts of things. MB moderator told me a while back that I was on a post from last fall regarding the MF salmon and to start a new one but I’m not that great with this stuff and anyway wanted to reference the last post from Fall. So I was sorta impressed with the organization aspect they wanted me to follow and I got a lil lecture about it, but I guess it coulda been a bot ? Anyhow just my two and a half cents if anyone reading this. Please keep MB up and alive.


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## twmartin

What is/was PBB?


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## Livingston

If you don't tell Mark Zuckerman 'bout it, it didn't happen.


-d


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## BGillespie

twmartin said:


> What is/was PBB?


Pirate 4x4--was the shiz for everything off road, prior to the sale to VS. Went from crazy number of active members to dead in no time.


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## waterdude

The archive here is unrivaled in the boating community, but I agree this site has gone waaaay downhill in terms of running on long-outdated code, lackluster maintenance, and increasingly pointless ads. It looks more like MySpace than Facebook, but I digress. 

Would LOVE to see for example Down River take it over, or at least spearhead an effort in getting it into the hands of an entity capable of providing the attention deserved. In terms of a suggestion of how to get there....what about starting a fundraiser to pull it away from a cyber squatters that currently are letting it toil in neglect? Doubt I would be alone in a willingness to donate a decent chunk of change to support this change. 

As to me this site has potential to be more like AdventureRider (advrider.com), which went from just a basic forum to a bustling community for the adventure motorcycling crowd. Membership is always free, but there are affordable tiers that offer a few bonus features along with reasonable ad rates that keep it all going.


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## walterwhite

In the short time I've been here, I have noticed a drop in activity on this forum.


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## desertSherpa

If Google serves me right, this place is owned by "Social Knowledge"
http://www.socialknowledge.com/assorted/


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## matt man

No.
It is seriously Fucked that the ownership does not seem to care, whatsoever, about the site. 

But there still is useful information, some comrodery, even some amount of “ bull shit” for the people that really enjoy that “crap”.
I even got to go down the Grand Canyon last winter, because of this site ( THANK YOU!!) and met some new boaters on Browns this spring because of Mtn. buzz, to.

I would say, it’s not dead yet, much like a Monty Python line. 

The owners should probably decide to give a shit, about there site, and take care of it, though, if they want to continue to have one........................


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## mr. compassionate

LSB said:


> Definite better beta here.
> The only thing FB is good for is looking up pictures of old girlfriends to see how fat they got.


 

Damn straight, they got so fat and ugly I had to decommission my Facebook account! 


I think the site died along with Cayo's irrational promotion of Venezeula and its utopian socialist society. Ask Cayo how that is going these days, but he's probably out schlepping for some stupid candidate like most the leftist Democrats are these days.


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## mr. compassionate

LSB said:


> Definite better beta here.
> The only thing FB is good for is looking up pictures of old girlfriends to see how fat they got.


 

Damn straight, they got so fat and ugly I had to decommission my Facebook account! 


I think the site died along with Cayo's irrational promotion of Venezuela and their perfectly working socialist society. Ask Cayo how that is going these days, but he's probably out schlepping for some stupid candidate like most the leftist Democrats are these days.


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## richp

Hi,


I might have missed it, but I would have thought that by now someone from "management" would have chimed in with some helpful, encouraging explanatory information.


There may be a message there all on its own...


FWIW.


Rich Phillips


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## willpaddle4food

Well the site has certainly gotten tamer than back in the days of Chunderboy, but after 20 odd years boating, I just yesterday found an old thread about how to shorten cataract oar shafts (thanks avatard!). Damn. I thought it was just me had gotten older and more boring, not Mountainbuzz too.


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## cayo 2

Not much time to argue ,at the moment.Let's just apply your 4th grade reasoning ability to other countries:how are things going in capitalist Honduras,Guatemala,Haiti,and El Salvador.And those govs were propped up by,not undermined by ,the US ( in blatant collusion with the opposition and Columbia).Another idiotic bullet point being bandied about,mostly by righties but the Dems aren't much better on this issue,is the rhetoric about Venezuela having been a wealthy oil state before Chavez.Yeah ,they should have been,but the right wing oligarchy that ran the country for most of it's history did little for the common person ,invested little of the proceeds domestically,and racked up massive debt.Then they succumbed to neo-liberal dictates to privatize,deregulate,and give tax cuts to the wealthy and foreign investors ,while cutting holes in the meager safety net and putting austerity measures on the poor.That is what brought Chavez to power in the first place.

Contrary to right wing nonsense ,the majority of the economy is not even under Maduro's control.2/3 of it is still in private hands,including food production and distribution until the opposition started using food shortages they created against Maduro ,in the run up to the elections a couple of years ago.The proof was that the stores were miraculously full soon after and the expiration dates on the products indicated they'd been shelved.Maduro then came up with his own failed food program.His handling of inflation made things worse.His approval rating was down to 17%.It is time for him to go.But we have no right to install Guiado as our puppet.His party only holds something like 14 seats in the Assembly.The right's economic plan was rejected by 61% of the people not long ago and overwhelmingly in multiple elections under Chavez.

Unfortunately,there are not many good guys to support there now.But our excessive meddling,lying,undermining,and outright interventionist imperialism,absolutely does not deserve to be rewarded in any way.I hope the international community intervenes and has early elections with neither Maduro or Guaido on the ballot. Maduro can go into exile somewhere.

No one ever claimed anything Utopian or pure Marxist style socialism,they attempted to emulate Norwegian style use of oil revenues.But as Greg Palast once put it, " it just drives Washington crazy when brown people demand Scandanavian priveleges" and our knee-jerk reaction being something like Pavlov's dogs salivating every time they try to.


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## desertSherpa

..... wrong thread buddy?


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## caverdan

I'm voting Mt. Buzz is still alive.


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## cayo 2

Oops! Doh! ,on calling out 4th grade reasoning with 2nd grade punctuation errors....my bad...How are things going in capitalist Guat.,Hond.,ES,and Haiti ? It was after the Nuggets game .I'd had a few.I would have liked to have added that Elliot Abrams ,Trump's point man on Vz, once appeared on Nightline,or a similar program,saying that people critical of Reagan era policies in Guatemala,like funding ,arming,and training the leadership,of right wing death squads who engaged in a scorched earth policy-literally burning and murdering 626 whole villages - were communist sympathizers.We've seen this movie before.

I'm not "irrationally promoting Venezuela".I am calling BS on the version of reality we are being fed.


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## cayo 2

Did you not read the whole thread ...buddy?


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## richp

Now it's the Buzz we used to know and love -- irreverent, irrelevant, and you know, sometimes off kilter.

Rich


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## cayo 2

Ok Rich...definitely off kilter ,but I'd say current affairs and humanitarian crisis ' are at least as relevant as threads about the proper ratio of tuna sandwiches to hand washing stations and condiments...hey it gives the people who do all the of ten unappreciated work a chance to vent and share ideas..thought I was the only person not on Facebook,apparently not..GOOD ...this is my only social media..we used to be able to walk and chew gum at the same time,boating talk and social commentary.


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## dirtbagkayaker

Not dead, just irrelevant! Not enough boating people to make a good profit margin so why develop this group of cheap asses when you can make more money else where with he same effort?? The NRS catalog over time shows the same trend. Sell clothes to girls to make money. Really hard to sell clothes to girls on the buzz.. If you buy from a buzz advertiser, tell them its cuz of the mtn buzz support that you bought.. Just a thought.


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## mr. compassionate

cayo 2 said:


> Not much time to argue ,at the moment.Let's just apply your 4th grade reasoning ability to other countries:how are things going in capitalist Honduras,Guatemala,Haiti,and El Salvador.And those govs were propped up by,not undermined by ,the US ( in blatant collusion with the opposition and Columbia).Another idiotic bullet point being bandied about,mostly by righties but the Dems aren't much better on this issue,is the rhetoric about Venezuela having been a wealthy oil state before Chavez.Yeah ,they should have been,but the right wing oligarchy that ran the country for most of it's history did little for the common person ,invested little of the proceeds domestically,and racked up massive debt.Then they succumbed to neo-liberal dictates to privatize,deregulate,and give tax cuts to the wealthy and foreign investors ,while cutting holes in the meager safety net and putting austerity measures on the poor.That is what brought Chavez to power in the first place.
> 
> Contrary to right wing nonsense ,the majority of the economy is not even under Maduro's control.2/3 of it is still in private hands,including food production and distribution until the opposition started using food shortages they created against Maduro ,in the run up to the elections a couple of years ago.The proof was that the stores were miraculously full soon after and the expiration dates on the products indicated they'd been shelved.Maduro then came up with his own failed food program.His handling of inflation made things worse.His approval rating was down to 17%.It is time for him to go.But we have no right to install Guiado as our puppet.His party only holds something like 14 seats in the Assembly.The right's economic plan was rejected by 61% of the people not long ago and overwhelmingly in multiple elections under Chavez.
> 
> Unfortunately,there are not many good guys to support there now.But our excessive meddling,lying,undermining,and outright interventionist imperialism,absolutely does not deserve to be rewarded in any way.I hope the international community intervenes and has early elections with neither Maduro or Guaido on the ballot. Maduro can go into exile somewhere.
> 
> No one ever claimed anything Utopian or pure Marxist style socialism,they attempted to emulate Norwegian style use of oil revenues.But as Greg Palast once put it, " it just drives Washington crazy when brown people demand Scandanavian priveleges" and our knee-jerk reaction being something like Pavlov's dogs salivating every time they try to.



Funny Cayo, the above is what you'd call projection! Blame everything on the Capitalist system huh Bernie! Those Central American countries are not capitalist, are you frickin' crazy. Nice barfing up of all the Chomsky lectures you listen to....


----------



## Grif

LSB said:


> Definite better beta here.
> The only thing FB is good for is looking up pictures of old girlfriends to see how fat they got.


True. Mountainbuzz has way hotter broads than Facebook. But now that I dun pleased most of 'em (takemetotheriver is the only one I never got to - she has a fella that could whip my ass!), what's 'ol Grif to do? 

Y'all's right. The archive has some good shit. I reckun the new owners are bankin' on that fer web traffic. Wish them bitches would email me so I could buy this dump. I'm thinking about turning it into a wild hog hunting forum called "getchasomedirtypigs.com". Hope the URL ain't taken.


----------



## Soup76

Grif said:


> True. Mountainbuzz has way hotter broads than Facebook. But now that I dun pleased most of 'em (takemetotheriver is the only one I never got to - she has a fella that could whip my ass!), what's 'ol Grif to do?
> 
> Y'all's right. The archive has some good shit. I reckun the new owners are bankin' on that fer web traffic. Wish them bitches would email me so I could buy this dump. I'm thinking about turning it into a wild hog hunting forum called "getchasomedirtypigs.com". Hope the URL ain't taken.


Damn Grif. That is some gold right there!!


----------



## Fly By Night

The fact we've been openly discussing a mutiny for 10 days and have not gotten locked, deleted, or a retort from ownership or a Mod gives you the answer to the thread title.


----------



## cayo 2

It's the history of Central America that has been whitewashed.You kind of missed the point,VZ is not pure socialism and the examples given may not be pure capitalism there are many factors at play not just generic labeling of economic systems.The fact remains that the examples given are countries where we have intervened,thwarted efforts at socio-economic justice,and imposed allegedly free market solutions.There is no free market all systems have rules.The rules of the capitalistic systems we have imposed are rigged in favor of the oligarchs and multinational corps.,pure and simple.

Projection huh...talk about calling the kettle black ! Hey thanks for comparison to Chomsky,I wish I was half as knowledgeable as him.I guess your heroes are Steven Miller,Alex Jones,Steve Moore ,Bolton,Art Laffer,etc.

Let's go ahead and put both capitalism and socialism on trial.This 2020 elections are going to be a full of debate about the efficacy of both.The supply side branch of capitalism has a horrible record,belongs in the scrap heap of history, shit does not trickle down it gets sucked up.

The northern European model of Democratic Socialism has an excellent record.They routinely outperform us on a wide array of quality of life indexes.Let's not pit fantasy capitalism against the worst examples of socialism/communism.Let's (the U.S. electorate) debate the merits of good models compared to the flawed system we currently have.Let's make capitalism more honest and fair and get over the cold war hangover that precludes anything labeled socialism, like a sensible health care system.The younger generations get it.You clearly don't.If Trump somehow wins again we are totally screwed,you will see the worst capitalistic practices given the green light.


----------



## cayo 2

Maybe in an odd way ,the site being neglected by the owners is not so bad.We can make it what we want.They might be receptive to some tech savvy buzzards volunteering to moderate.There used to be mods ..I don't know if they even exist anymore.I think some got fed up and left.More interesting content might increase traffic and spur more reason to improve the site....maybe not if they truly don't care.


----------



## okieboater

cayo 2 I could care less what you think of Venezuela or any other countries from Mexico on down south. I can say that over some 20 years or so, I visited many of them and while they are great kayaking destinations, none of their governments even come close to what the Unites States of America has given it's citizens. By answering your rants, I realize I am giving you incentive to rant again. But, I am sick and tired of people like you running down the USA that has given you the opportunity to enjoy a decent standard of living and the freedom to post what ever to a message board.

For me tho, I read and support this message board for it's boating content. Keep up the open versus pins and clips, cooler tips, groover maintenance and trip reports from rivers run.

Like it mentions else where in this message board take your political rants to the Eddy is what I would like to see you do. I agree, where are the moderators?


----------



## cayo 2

Can you right wing morons even follow an arguement? Yeah a *******'s perspective on other countries is well informed.You clowns are the disgrace to this country.You are in for a very rude awakening as the demographic changes you fear so much come to fruition. You can't even base a single argument on facts and vote for abject morons who base policy on Fox news nonsense.Go back to your caves.Utterly brainwashed idiots on steroids....I don't give a flying fuck what some ass backwards repub thinks either .Take your ill informed jingoistic American exceptionalist worldview and shove it up your greedy,lying, racist ass.

You don't get to make up your own "alternative" facts anymore!


----------



## bob larrabee

jingoistic. Cayo that's fantoistic keep it up.


----------



## okieboater

cayo 2, a "rant" is not a logical argument in my opinion.

This will be my last post on this thread. Reading your posts is a total waste of time.

If the management of this message board allows you to continue to post in the boating section when there is a recommended forum for politics, count me as another person taking my participation elsewhere. Where are the moderators?


----------



## shappattack

okieboater said:


> ....Reading your posts is a total waste of time.
> 
> If the management of this message board allows you to continue to post in the boating section when there is a recommended forum for politics, count me as another person taking my participation elsewhere. Where are the moderators?


Simple solution, don't read it. 

Cause there is SOOOOO much boating content in this thread


----------



## MNichols

Lordy Lordy, I take off on a motorcycle trip for a week and look what happens!!


WOW...


----------



## okieboater

good advice Shap! I am moving on


----------



## CGR4

Long live Chunder Boy!


----------



## kfalls

Steve Harvey lives with his wife in this gorgeous mansion.


----------



## lmyers

okieboater said:


> cayo 2, a "rant" is not a logical argument in my opinion.
> 
> This will be my last post on this thread. Reading your posts is a total waste of time.
> 
> If the management of this message board allows you to continue to post in the boating section when there is a recommended forum for politics, count me as another person taking my participation elsewhere. Where are the moderators?


I agree that Jay is ranting, and his politics belong in the Eddy, but I'm done wasting my time doing free work for the unappreciative owners of this forum.


----------



## lmyers

desertSherpa said:


> If Google serves me right, this place is owned by "Social Knowledge"
> Assorted - Social Knowledge


No. Social Knowledge Network was Andy's company. He sold Mountain Buzz to "Vertical Scope" the end of 2016. Things have gone downhill from there. Here was Andy's sign-off to the moderators:




Andy R said:


> Buzz Krew,
> 
> As you know I haven’t been around that much over the last couple of years. When I acquired the Buzz over a decade ago it was with a vision to try and foster discussions on more mountain sports (skiing, hiking, etc). I thought I would have a lot more time to invest in the site but unfortunately that never really panned out.
> 
> I have been spending most of my time trying to foster some very specific sites on the RV/Motorhome/Travel Trailer niche. This past summer I realized that I needed to focus my energy on the RV sites so I decided to sell a group of my sites (including Mountain Buzz) to VerticalScope. They are pretty much the same as Social Knowledge (my company) just bigger and more sophisticated.
> 
> I feel this is going to be a positive change for the community and our members. It’s my understanding that VerticalScope will run the community in a similar fashion as we have in years past, it should be business-as-usual. In the same way Janet helps me with the forums, a small team of support professionals from VerticalScope will take her place. Philip one of the team members will be posting an introduction and answer any questions you may have here in a bit.
> 
> From a forum members perspective this change should be seamless. Nothing is changing, the site will continue to run on the same vBulletin platform we have been on for years. VerticalScope invests heavily on servers so the site will mostly likely get faster. They also have an amazing mobile skin (which Social Knowledge had one as nice) so interacting from a mobile should improve.
> 
> The Buzz is a very special place and you all have been great stewards of the community. What I’m most proud of is our team, that we do step in when things go over the line, that we stood up to bullies and that the community today is more respectful vs the trollfest it used to be. To some members it might seem like less fun because they enjoy watching train wrecks. I, on the other hand, am honored to have worked with you all to resolve some tough situations with the best interest of the community and paddlers in mind.
> 
> I hope that you all will continue to serve the community in the same way for years to come.
> 
> Please welcome Philip and the VerticalScope team to our community!
> 
> Kind Regards,
> 
> Andy


----------



## lmyers

Here's some good stuff to remanence over, the old "Hall of Fame" thread:



https://www.mountainbuzz.com/forums/f21/does-the-buzz-need-a-hall-of-fame-34808.html


----------



## MT4Runner

lmyers said:


> I agree that Jay is ranting, and his politics belong in the Eddy, but I'm done wasting my time doing free work for the unappreciative owners of this forum.


Your efforts were appreciated, while I realize your ability to effect teh changes people wanted was limited.


See you on the river!


----------



## lmyers

MT4Runner said:


> Your efforts were appreciated, while I realize your ability to effect teh changes people wanted was limited.
> 
> 
> See you on the river!


Thanks for that. I'll admit there was a bit of heavy handed moderation at points in the past, but it was easy to do when Andy R. had a vision for this online community and worked directly with his volunteers to try and make that vision a reality. Since he sold the Buzz there has been very minimal communication on the backside of the forum. Hopefully things will change soon.


----------



## MT4Runner

As BGillespie and I noted, we've seen this happen on an even bigger forum that was bought out by VerticalScope. Even that one had some heavy moderation, but the owners had a vision and were personally involved. They blogged their own projects and paid writers to report on live events and bring informative tech reviews.
When it was sold (reportedly for 5-6 figures), the past owner promised that "Nothing will change."


He was correct. *NOTHING *has changed.
Communities change, and forums need to change with them. It takes a human's passion and right or wrong decisions to keep things living.

As a volunteer moderator (I've been one and it's sometimes thankless), you are involved to keep building this community you love. It's hard to step away.


I'm not holding my breath.


----------



## mr. compassionate

cayo 2 said:


> Can you right wing morons even follow an arguement? Yeah a *******'s perspective on other countries is well informed.You clowns are the disgrace to this country.You are in for a very rude awakening as the demographic changes you fear so much come to fruition. You can't even base a single argument on facts and vote for abject morons who base policy on Fox news nonsense.Go back to your caves.Utterly brainwashed idiots on steroids....I don't give a flying fuck what some ass backwards repub thinks either .Take your ill informed jingoistic American exceptionalist worldview and shove it up your greedy,lying, racist ass.
> 
> You don't get to make up your own "alternative" facts anymore!


 

Nice outing yourself for the millennial you are-everything boils down to race, sex and class! Good luck on winning an election on that bs. Nothing like hurling insults at someone to try and prove your misguided opinions of the differing levels of socialism. Cayo you stubbornly defended Venezuela for years but now backtrack? You don't look so smart anymore buddy...


I always know when a Leftist has been defeated, they immediately cry racism, racism and I know they are admitting defeat!


----------



## dirtbagkayaker

DBK response post.. Hehehehe Bahahaa just funing around, but not really.


Just MHO of what is see and why I left the left...... 




cayo 2 said:


> Can you right wing morons even follow an arguement?


Name calling is what you do when you don't have an argument.



cayo 2 said:


> Yeah a *******'s perspective on other countries is well informed.You clowns are the disgrace to this country.


Shaming is how women abuse and control men.



cayo 2 said:


> You are in for a very rude awakening as the demographic changes you fear so much come to fruition.


Threats are a last resort of the weak.



cayo 2 said:


> You can't even base a single argument on facts and vote for abject morons who base policy on Fox news nonsense.Go back to your caves.Utterly brainwashed idiots on steroids....I don't give a flying fuck what some ass backwards repub thinks either .Take your ill informed jingoistic American exceptionalist worldview and shove it up your greedy,lying, racist ass.


Bitch me tripping here! Typical repose of the lost man walking circles and can't find his way out of the woods as anger sets in.



cayo 2 said:


> You don't get to make up your own "alternative" facts anymore!


This is what one says when they have the lack of intelligence to understand and get the other side of an argument. You don't have to agree to understand..... Right??? 

But hey once the liberals impose a curfew on men so women feel safe at night, then you'll get my pov! 

:roll::roll:


----------



## LSB

Now we're getting fired up. The old Buzz aint dead just constipated. Casper Mike will be back to piss everybody off soon.


----------



## lhowemt

I'd just like to say that I love that DBK has blocked my posts and can't see them. The buzz is better for me!!!


----------



## shappattack

LSB said:


> Now we're getting fired up. The old Buzz aint dead just constipated


Well if Mt. Buzz was constipated, it just shit out a golden nugget:
https://www.mountainbuzz.com/forums...river-in-the-lower-48-a-97881.html#post730211


----------



## shappattack

What happened to the Sotar Sucks thread? Looks like it was deleted.


----------



## cayo 2

I agree flying off the handle is poor form.It gets extremely frustrating to deal with people who traffic so freely in misinformation and seemingly have no rational basis to their views. I assure you I know infinitely more about this topic than the respondents .When you have to resort to flag waving or religion in a debate,you may win the popularity contest but you have lost the intellectual argument.Okie completely distorted what I said,a form of lying.I suggested comparing our current form of bad capitalism ( supply side)to the results yielded on quality of life indexes in democratic socialist countries/social democracies like Scandanavia\northern Europe.I never said we should emulate ANY country in Latin America.

My defense of Chavez for years is based on exposing our undemocratic actions intervening in other country's elections and governance,and I appreciate what he was trying to do and the context events were occurring in.Maduro is in a clinging to power phase and doing undemocratic things,but any version of events that does not ,at least ,acknowledge our meddling and it's impacts is bullshit.

Repubs claiming not to be rascists,are you kidding?You elected Trump on race baiting over immigration.His campaign was run by Steve Bannon,champion of the alt-right.And is currently under the influence of Steven Miller.

Move it to the eddy ,that's fine with me.


----------



## cayo 2

You can add misogynistic to that list of qualities that define repubs...read DBK 's post and take a look at recent legislation passed in red states...funny DBK I have seldom, if ever,heard a conservative accurately describe Democratic socialist views in 40 + years of debating this stuff...I could argue your side of it better than you can,if I wanted to,we have all been indoctrinated with the conventional wisdom that puts capitalism,christianity,white people,and business,on a pedestal and white washes and sugarcoats our actions .For example, Mr.C has never mentioned ruling by decree,the most legitimate criticism of Maduro.It's all socialism bad -'Merica good,predetermined who is right and who is wrong ,no equal application of objective standards in assessing a situation.


----------



## dirtbagkayaker

cayo 2 said:


> ...funny DBK I have seldom, if ever,heard a conservative accurately describe Democratic socialist views in 40 + years of debating this stuff... ,no equal application of objective standards in assessing a situation.



hard to accurately describe the moving target motivated by feelings of a liberal person.. That's the beauty of liberals. They change there views every ten minutes: by definition! The liberal of the 70's messed up cali so bad they find solace in Idaho and have become the conservatives you despise because they see the error in their ways. They are changing by the millions. digest that one?? Trump will win the majority vote this time... Young people start out democrat and grow up to be republican. Just saying. Must be hard when you know everything and the whole world fits in the palm of your hands. :roll::roll:


----------



## cayo 2

Oh you are full of it..I have been extremely consistent in my arguments ,to the point of feeling like a broken record..go back into the archives and see for yourself,agree or disagree...there used to be conservatives like Helio and Blutski who put forth intelligent right wing arguments on this forum...


----------



## dirtbagkayaker

I agree that you have been extremely consistent in your rhetoric. Don't make it true, though??? Liberals are about change, always have been. My only argument against liberal ideas are results, mainly: "California!" Crooked politicians, homeless junkies, illegal immigration, gang violence, perpetual debt & taxes are the way of liberal ideas. Colorado, like Washington, is starting to die too. But, PPL today have a choice and they choose to move to republican states like Idaho, Montana, and Texas. I totally believe you, Your people will get there way in time. Thank god I'll be dead when that happens....


----------



## noahfecks

This is comedy gold, thanks for the laugh :beer:


----------



## MNichols

noahfecks said:


> This is comedy gold, thanks for the laugh :beer:



Amen !!!


----------



## cayo 2

You really have major reading comprehension problems,among other things.Basing policy on results is exactly what I was advocating.Republicans ,collectively, ignore fact based reality regarding health care results and costs compared to other countries.We pay upwards of 17% of GDP .Other advanced nations pay ,typically ,9 to 11% and get as good or better results.


So only California has those problems?You laud Texas then talk about crooked politicians.A lot the people moving to Idaho or Montana are doing it because of housing values.Median home values in Cali are outrageous,if you sell your home and move to a cheaper state you can pocket the difference.Some may like the culture more.Texas attracts business to relocate because of low taxes.Then you have to live in a state with poor services and the worst environmental( along with Louisiana) standards.

Debt,lol,yeah dems tax and spend on things they think are important.Repubs spend as much or more,then cut taxes ,thus raising the debt more.And they spend/waste the money on military misadventures and tax cuts stacked in favor of the wealthy.They deprive the country of needed revenue by defending bad policies like the step up in basis provision that leaves dynastic family wealth untaxed,absurdly low capital gains tax,historically low rate on the highest marginal tax brackets.Grover Nordquist and friends have political leverage that allows for a one way street ,only tax cuts never increases in response to need,just a race to the bottom.

Gangs?Any sociologist will tell you gangs are largely a function of lack of opportunity for youth.Which party favors more expenditure on education and youth programs?


You make it dam n difficult not to fly off the handle again.I stand by the earlier idiot comments.

Oh,and by the way the most crooked politicians in Cali are repubs Darrell Issa,the only convicted felon in congress,and Devin 'dumb as a stump 'Nunes.


----------



## 50119

I think they're just Russian BOTS just stirring things up. If not, a divorce is in order.


----------



## noahfecks

somebody buy Cayo a drink and get him laid, that guy has way too much pent up anger


----------



## cayo 2

the bots thing is sort of funny,unfortunately not true....I don't t hink lack of alcohol is the problem...I could stand to get laid though..it is the other guy whining about how pc women are so mean to guys like him...my main beef is the marginalization of facts and reason by conservatives and bad policies resulting from that type of thinking....


----------



## dirtbagkayaker

cayo 2 said:


> Gangs?Any sociologist will tell you gangs are largely a function of lack of opportunity for youth.Which party favors more expenditure on education and youth programs?


I think you have a limited view on gangs, so let us double your knowledge and start here.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_criminal_gangs_in_Los_Angeles

If you take the time to good look and do open minded research, you'll find most have Mexican roots. Maybe we should be educating Mexican citizens, huh?? That's a good liberal idea. Just saying...

I'd buy you a beer and get you laid but I didn't how what gender you identify with today. let a lone tomorrow??

Next we can do research on why ppl move out of cali. Personal safety and taxation are high on the list. 62% report homelessness as a big problem.

https://www.sfgate.com/expensive-sa...area-california-where-to-go-cost-13614119.php

Anyway take care little buddy. The world aint out to get ya. Trump aint a raciest and Russia didn't help him. Socialist ideas wont save the world. If they did, everyone would be moving to cali, but only homeless and criminals going there now. Hell, even the Raiders left. Super sad if you ask me.


----------



## cayo 2

Jeez gotta go to work...so you don't get that "largely a function of" means there are other reasons too?It does not matter the race of the people as much as the conditions they are under.Remember when Irish,Jewish, and Italian,immigrants were the gangsters?You made all the effort to look up just LA on wikipedia,better than nothing I guess..can't say I have not done it at times....


Your link stated that cost of living was the primary reason for leaving,housing costs and property taxes are part of that...don't really need to point out how ridiculous your calling California,home to some of the biggest companies in the world,socialist is...if you mean bad liberal policies have helped screw up the state,you have a case,but it is far more complicated than that...

You can stop trying to bait me with macho bullshit...congratulations you reinforced yourself as a racist,misogynistic,homophobic ,moron,yet again...


----------



## dirtbagkayaker

cayo 2 said:


> You can stop trying to bait me with macho bullshit...congratulations you reinforced yourself as a racist,misogynistic,homophobic ,moron,yet again...


No baiting here. Just like poking people full of hate that think everyone that disagrees is a "racist,misogynistic,homophobic ,moron,yet again..." that is the core of all liberal arguments. They all go there.. Some faster than others.


----------



## mr. compassionate

cayo 2 said:


> I agree flying off the handle is poor form.It gets extremely frustrating to deal with people who traffic so freely in misinformation and seemingly have no rational basis to their views. I assure you I know infinitely more about this topic than the respondents .When you have to resort to flag waving or religion in a debate,you may win the popularity contest but you have lost the intellectual argument.Okie completely distorted what I said,a form of lying.I suggested comparing our current form of bad capitalism ( supply side)to the results yielded on quality of life indexes in democratic socialist countries/social democracies like Scandanavia\northern Europe.I never said we should emulate ANY country in Latin America.
> 
> My defense of Chavez for years is based on exposing our undemocratic actions intervening in other country's elections and governance,and I appreciate what he was trying to do and the context events were occurring in.Maduro is in a clinging to power phase and doing undemocratic things,but any version of events that does not ,at least ,acknowledge our meddling and it's impacts is bullshit.
> 
> Repubs claiming not to be rascists,are you kidding?You elected Trump on race baiting over immigration.His campaign was run by Steve Bannon,champion of the alt-right.And is currently under the influence of Steven Miller.
> 
> Move it to the eddy ,that's fine with me.



Haha Cayo,


For someone who knows "infinitely more" than others, you were beyond drastically wrong on the utopia and success of the Socialist experiment. Typical of leftist, elitists like yourself to claim intellectual superiority. You and your ilk are so tiresome. Go bang on doors for you hero AOC and stop the drivel on Mtnbuzz.


----------



## mr. compassionate

cayo 2 said:


> You really have major reading comprehension problems,among other things.Basing policy on results is exactly what I was advocating.Republicans ,collectively, ignore fact based reality regarding health care results and costs compared to other countries.We pay upwards of 17% of GDP .Other advanced nations pay ,typically ,9 to 11% and get as good or better results.
> 
> 
> So only California has those problems?You laud Texas then talk about crooked politicians.A lot the people moving to Idaho or Montana are doing it because of housing values.Median home values in Cali are outrageous,if you sell your home and move to a cheaper state you can pocket the difference.Some may like the culture more.Texas attracts business to relocate because of low taxes.Then you have to live in a state with poor services and the worst environmental( along with Louisiana) standards.
> 
> Debt,lol,yeah dems tax and spend on things they think are important.Repubs spend as much or more,then cut taxes ,thus raising the debt more.And they spend/waste the money on military misadventures and tax cuts stacked in favor of the wealthy.They deprive the country of needed revenue by defending bad policies like the step up in basis provision that leaves dynastic family wealth untaxed,absurdly low capital gains tax,historically low rate on the highest marginal tax brackets.Grover Nordquist and friends have political leverage that allows for a one way street ,only tax cuts never increases in response to need,just a race to the bottom.
> 
> Gangs?Any sociologist will tell you gangs are largely a function of lack of opportunity for youth.Which party favors more expenditure on education and youth programs?
> 
> 
> You make it dam n difficult not to fly off the handle again.I stand by the earlier idiot comments.
> 
> Oh,and by the way the most crooked politicians in Cali are repubs Darrell Issa,the only convicted felon in congress,and Devin 'dumb as a stump 'Nunes.


 
Typical of libs hurl insults at people instead of talking policy! Are you kidding Cayo on the healthcare, the US by far leads the world in healthcare and drug innovation, we actually subsidize all of these costs for the rest of the world. Cherry picking health data such as average life span and birth rate morbity numbers are reckless at best. These data points are skewed due to the obese, drug addicted population in the United States which is directly related to the Liberal Policies over the last 40 years which have fractured the American family and the removal of religion from our society.


Keep talking-you know the old saying by Twain! You have definitely removed all doubt!


----------



## mr. compassionate

You can stop trying to bait me with macho bullshit...congratulations you reinforced yourself as a racist,misogynistic,homophobic ,moron,yet again...[/QUOTE]



Hilarious, another lost argument so immediately go with the racist, misogyny, homophobic thing. Congrats on admitting your failure, keep hurling insults snowflake!


----------



## MNichols

dirtbagkayaker said:


> No baiting here. Just like poking people full of hate that think everyone that disagrees is a "racist,misogynistic,homophobic ,moron,yet again..." that is the core of all liberal arguments. They all go there.. Some faster than others.



Hit the proverbial nail on the head dirtbag. 



*"Where there is a vacuum of ideas, paranoia slips in.* Much of the left's hate speech bears greater similarity to a psychological disorder than to standard political discourse. *The hatred is blinding, producing logical contradictions that would be impossible to sustain were it not for the central element faith plays in the left's new religion.* The basic tenet of their faith is this: Maybe they were wrong about their facts and policies, but they are good and conservatives are evil. You almost want to give it to them. It's all they have left. "



Anne Coulter



I will admit that this seems so strange to me, politics on a river forum. I NEVER allow discussions about politics on any of my trips, religion falls into that category as well.


----------



## Ninja_Nico

Does this mean we've answered the original question of whether or not the buzz is dead... ? 

Kayaking discussion has moved to FB but at least we're getting the relentless political ramblings on the buzz. Shut 'er down boys.


----------



## 50119

There's a June 6th Middle Fork permit up for grab's right now @ 12:30pm Pacific Time. Possibly that will change attitudes for a minute.


----------



## captishmael

Enough Politics! 
My invites on raft trips always include this-

_In the interest of Friendship, Mutual Respect and General Bonhomie, let me make one small request,

No Politics on the River!

I'm Old and Crotchety, You are Young and Fair, There is nothing you can say to change me, there is probably nothing I can say to change you, so why get into a pissing match over it?

Attend your Caucus, Put Signs in your Yard, and most importantly, Go to the Polls! But leave it at home when you go to the River!

Thank You Sincerely,_


----------



## captishmael

Now, back to the business at hand.........
Is MB Dead?
I don't think so, there is still a need for this forum, but it seems much less interesting the last few years.

When did it happen that MB became mainly a Lost & Found service? Sheeesh, I would be embarrassed to admit that I lost half the shit I see posted here! 

Oh Yeah, if you question your own abilities and/or your kids' abilities enough that you have to ask other's opinions if they are too young for a certain trip, then Yes. They are too young or your own skills/experience need improvement.

Coolers? They all work, get the biggest that will fit on your raft. If you can afford a Big Name as opposed to an Igloo, get it. If you can't afford the Big Name, get an Igloo and go. GO! That's what's important. GO! Now, before one of life's maladies comes your way. JUST GO! Don't you realize how fortunate you are to have a choice between going or not? 

Oar Length? A couple inches between the handles, then 1/3 In and 2/3 Out.
All other formulas are just variations of this. 

I think that covers 80% of the BS posts. Buzzards, where are you?


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## cracksmeup

Don't forget "pins and clips" or "oarlocks"? but my new favorite is should I wear a sarong?


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## MNichols

cracksmeup said:


> Don't forget "pins and clips" or "oarlocks"? but my new favorite is should I wear a sarong?


You should wear a kilt, especially when draining your cooler!


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## captishmael

Oh man, pins & clips or oarlocks- how could I forget. 
Of course I also forgot left or right at Yarmony.
Answer those and that takes care of 90% of the BS


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## Panama Red

Drain the cooler in the groover. 
All liquid should go in the dry box. 
Extinguish fire pans with sand. 
Half hitches are great for tying off boats. 
Drink the bong water. 
Blow by all camps and take outs. 
Wipe with the right and shake with the left. 
Scatter all your shit across the ramp. 
Don’t bother putting your dog on a leash. 
Eat all the fungus I brought. 
Don’t go after Grif’s sloppy seconds. 
Anybody wanna go on a river trip. I have a permit and have rented all the necessary gear it’s only 1,000$ a person for a day trip.


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## jgrebe

The worst thing for me about the current MBuzz (beside douchebags arguing politics) is that it has turned into a lost and found page. At any given time more than 50% of the posts are lost and found related


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## captishmael

Moderators?
How about a separate Lost & Found Category?
Does MB still have Moderators?


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## hrussell

Just sold a boat from this place so you can sell shit here! but is MB dead well probably sorta of, everybody has gone to facecrook. get them creepy god damn ads that follow me around everywhere off! trying to sell me junk like I'm visiting a cheese ball site. and as far as moderators, well throw out some swear words! I dare you and they'll shut you down pretty quick go ahead, give it a try!


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## MNichols

hrussell said:


> everybody has gone to facecrook. get them creepy god damn ads that follow me around everywhere off!



No, not everyone is stupid enough to join Facesuck and make Zuckerberg even richer than they already have...


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## lmyers

captishmael said:


> Moderators?
> How about a separate Lost & Found Category?
> Does MB still have Moderators?


There is a separate Lost and Found forum. If you don't want to see posts from that forum go here: https://www.mountainbuzz.com/forums/f16/
then click on "Forum Tools" and select "Ignore Forum"....


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## Blade&Shaft

I miss the prolific amounts of shit talking. And Caspermike


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## dirtbagkayaker

CasperMike aka Myka??? and the box technic? bahahaha. Weeee Thank you Blade...... 

But ya people are all uptight, can't take shit talking, and then the gray balls demand respect and proper grammar on the forum. Like they own it or something. The buzz is not as fun as it once was. Pretty sure it was rubber pushing cat boaters that messed it up with liberal amounts of politically correct propaganda pumped in their tubes. 

guess the only good thing about the buzz these days, is that you can read the lost and found to see if there is anything you want to get to first.. Right????


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## Gremlin

I named myself Gremlin with the intent of tossing shit talk back in the day. I’m very disappointed to not be on the list.


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## carvedog

Most of this conversation belongs in the Eddy. I am leaving this thread open for now but will close it ( and take away all your cheap entertainment) if the personal attacks continue. I don't go in the Eddy and care what kind of crap you talk about there. The main forums are not for this type of politic bs. I have the ban hammer and will use it if necessary. dbk is not a russian troll and while I don't agree with him or Mr C on many points they don't resort to name calling. 

So please give it a rest. Warnings have been issued. I haven't boated since the beginning of June and not paid enough ( like any) to do this.


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## MR. ED

Wow. Starting to get sporty 🙂


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## Crazy Nate

I miss it...now I’m subscribed to 14 different FB pages...everybody used to just come here.


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## Gremlin

But really, I want to be on THE LIST!! Poo on you.


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## brendodendo

What the hell has this forum come to? DBK can't even talk shit to a newb. I miss the early days. Bastard Son of Elvis, Randaddy (yes G...um OP), Casper Mika, Hobie, Gnarquist and a host of other shit talking, name taking, AT paddle up the ass shoving, Boof hucking, rifle shooting in camp, raft loosing on the river, naked people wanting threads. This place is a ghost town. Made even more blahh by mods with no empathy and tool bags that row pinsNclips. Go drain you cooler, this place is done. Im going boating. See you all in the fall. BP out


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## raymo

You know what really burns my Ass, is a candle about 27 inches high!!! Well a bowl of pork green chili, made with a shit load of Jalapeno peppers does a great job, at that too. But I keep going back for seconds. We all still love big water. Never say, never.


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## PoppyOscar

raymo said:


> You know what really burns my Ass, is a candle about 27 inches high!!! Well a bowl of pork green chili, made with a shit load of Jalapeno peppers does a great job, at that too. But I keep going back for seconds. We all still love big water. Never say, never.


FYI Putting a roll of TP in the freezer the night before usually deals with the after after effects of a good bowl of hatch green chili.

See! MB still has value!


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## raymo

*Thanks "PoppyOscar"*



PoppyOscar said:


> FYI Putting a roll of TP in the freezer the night before usually deals with the after after effects of a good bowl of hatch green chili.
> 
> See! MB still has value!


Thanks "PoppyOscar" it's always nice knowing someone from MB, is covering my "six",, hate to have it just hanging out there when things really start heating up. Happy boating.


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## ExEssBoater

cayo 2 said:


> Not much time to argue ,at the moment.Let's just apply your 4th grade reasoning ability to other countries:how are things going in capitalist Honduras,Guatemala,Haiti,and El Salvador.And those govs were propped up by,not undermined by ,the US ( in blatant collusion with the opposition and Columbia).Another idiotic bullet point being bandied about,mostly by righties but the Dems aren't much better on this issue,is the rhetoric about Venezuela having been a wealthy oil state before Chavez.Yeah ,they should have been,but the right wing oligarchy that ran the country for most of it's history did little for the common person ,invested little of the proceeds domestically,and racked up massive debt.Then they succumbed to neo-liberal dictates to privatize,deregulate,and give tax cuts to the wealthy and foreign investors ,while cutting holes in the meager safety net and putting austerity measures on the poor.That is what brought Chavez to power in the first place.
> 
> Contrary to right wing nonsense ,the majority of the economy is not even under Maduro's control.2/3 of it is still in private hands,including food production and distribution until the opposition started using food shortages they created against Maduro ,in the run up to the elections a couple of years ago.The proof was that the stores were miraculously full soon after and the expiration dates on the products indicated they'd been shelved.Maduro then came up with his own failed food program.His handling of inflation made things worse.His approval rating was down to 17%.It is time for him to go.But we have no right to install Guiado as our puppet.His party only holds something like 14 seats in the Assembly.The right's economic plan was rejected by 61% of the people not long ago and overwhelmingly in multiple elections under Chavez.
> 
> Unfortunately,there are not many good guys to support there now.But our excessive meddling,lying,undermining,and outright interventionist imperialism,absolutely does not deserve to be rewarded in any way.I hope the international community intervenes and has early elections with neither Maduro or Guaido on the ballot. Maduro can go into exile somewhere.
> 
> No one ever claimed anything Utopian or pure Marxist style socialism,they attempted to emulate Norwegian style use of oil revenues.But as Greg Palast once put it, " it just drives Washington crazy when brown people demand Scandanavian priveleges" and our knee-jerk reaction being something like Pavlov's dogs salivating every time they try to.


And this reply is exactly why forums suck ass these days. Pricks like this have such thin skin that whenever anything remotely contrary to their personal doctrine is even mentioned ANYWHERE IN ANY FORUM OR CONVERSATION, they have to pontificate with the usual talking points and attack back with so many insults that it boggles the mind. Whether they are left or right, they all suck because they are thin skinned bitches that can't stick to a conversation without working in their political bullshit whenever they feel remotely offended, challenged, or called out for having such tiny penises (or titties if they're ladies). They just can't leave it be. 

This site used to be fun and relevant for BOATING and this other BS was kept where it belonged: in the groover. Yeah, I seldom post because I don't need to "express my opinion." Fuck you guys. Get outside and boat. The Ark was over 3,000 this weekend and yet the play hole in Salida was deserted at 2 pm on the Saturday of a LOONNGGG holiday weekend. On the drive from Salida to Denver this morning I counted 2, yes TWO vehicles that had whitewater kayaks on top. MB isn't the only thing dead: whitewater kayaking, private rafting, and common fucken sense n decency are DOA in 'murcia.

PS, I miss the adventures of Chunderboy!


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