# Cataract counterbalance shafts vs weighted handles



## jberg421 (Jul 19, 2020)

Does anyone know if the counterbalanced sgg shafts from Cataract get you the same counterbalance as the handles would? Looking at 10’ shafts and noticed the un weighted shafts to be less expensive? Thanks all


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## flipper42 (Apr 8, 2011)

the counterbalanced sgg are plenty of weight to counter with havent tried just using the weights but if it's any heavier it's gonna cause issues my 2 cents!


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## jberg421 (Jul 19, 2020)

flipper42 said:


> the counterbalanced sgg are plenty of weight to counter with havent tried just using the weights but if it's any heavier it's gonna cause issues my 2 cents!


Heard, shoulda been more specific with saying I may do the unbalanced with the heavy handles. So I wondered if anyone had experience with both.


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

If you're buying oars, do yourself a favor and look to Sawyer, counterbalanced composite shafts and ash fir blades. Or square tops... Past the handmade wood ones I have, they are simply the nicest oars to row with made, and the coating won't degrade and expose the fiberglass wrap like the Cataract shafts. Yep, they cost more, but it's very much worth it at the end of the day, you won't be sitting in the eddy choking ibuprofen cause of your sore shoulders. Both Sawyer and AC are made in the US, OR and UT respectively, but if it matters, Sawyer Oars almost got burnt down in the fires this summer, huge impact to their business, and likely would really appreciate any business you threw their way. 

No matter what you buy, make sure they are set up so you're using good body mechanics to row with. The best oars in the world won't counter a shitty setup.

My 2¢, YMMV


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## jberg421 (Jul 19, 2020)

MNichols said:


> If you're buying oars, do yourself a favor and look to Sawyer, counterbalanced composite shafts and ash fir blades. Or square tops... Past the handmade wood ones I have, they are simply the nicest oars to row with made, and the coating won't degrade and expose the fiberglass wrap like the Cataract shafts. Yep, they cost more, but it's very much worth it at the end of the day, you won't be sitting in the eddy choking ibuprofen cause of your sore shoulders. Both Sawyer and AC are made in the US, OR and UT respectively, but if it matters, Sawyer Oars almost got burnt down in the fires this summer, huge impact to their business, and likely would really appreciate any business you threw their way.
> 
> No matter what you buy, make sure they are set up so you're using good body mechanics to row with. The best oars in the world won't counter a shitty setup.
> 
> My 2¢, YMMV


I'm nearly convinced haha. There is definitely some sticker shock with them, but the more I hear about em, the closer I get to treating myself. I've been rowing carlisles and they're not the most _pleasant_ to say the least. 

composite shafts or square tops? Probably about 75% fishing/25% Class II-III


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

Either or, the square tops are classier, but they are mostly there for weight, I like them both but would likely get the square tops as I like the look. Oars are your sole mechanical interface with the water, if you're going to spend money on anything, spend it on your oars! You'll never regret it!


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

MNichols said:


> Yep, they cost more, but it's very much worth it at the end of the day, you won't be sitting in the eddy choking ibuprofen cause of your sore shoulders.


Wood is way easier on your body than composite. I had a set of Carlisles when I was in my late 20's and they hurt my shoulders then. Glad I went all wood and never looked back. I'm nearing 46 and wood still feels awesome on my joints.



MNichols said:


> Either or, the square tops are classier, but they are mostly there for weight, I like them both but would likely get the square tops as I like the look.


Wood is neutrally buoyant. jberg, a square top is a counterweight that won't sink your oar to the bottom of the river if it comes detached. If you need justification, just realize if you sink one counterweighted oar and have to replace it, the squaretops are now cheaper.

Or getting a shoulder replaced in 30 years is far more expensive than any oars. Not saying that composites will destroy your shoulders, but they can contribute.


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

I'm a big fan of wood oars, but not everyone has your skillset to build oars as sweet as the ones you do....


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

No, but Sawyers/Smokers are commercially available, and not much more than Cataracts.


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

Well, based on the smokers I have, and the gulls on my little dory, they weigh a ton compared to the set I got from you, no comparison at all. I know we can grind down the blades and make them lighter, but how many folks would do that? I really like the composite Sawyer shafts I have with the ash fir blades, they are as close to what you build out of wood, as you can buy commercial, in MY opinion.. 

When was the last time you rowed Sawyer composite shafts with wood blades?


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## jberg421 (Jul 19, 2020)

MT4Runner said:


> Wood is way easier on your body than composite. I had a set of Carlisles when I was in my late 20's and they hurt my shoulders then. Glad I went all wood and never looked back. I'm nearing 46 and wood still feels awesome on my joints.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Checks out! And would you have good things to say about their durability? If I go the square top route there’s no replacing blades


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

They are as durable as any other oar... and you'd be surprised at what can be repaired with epoxy, wood and elbow grease.. now, bust the shaft in 2 and its the same as any other oar, you're SOL.. but the blades, yep. Oars are expensive, treat them kindly and they will last a long time.. come to think of it, the only blades I've ever broken were plastic.. FWIW


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## okieboater (Oct 19, 2004)

Based on this thread, I did some searches on sawyer square tops. Looked at their retail outlet and NRS. Man, NRS is expensive and the shipping costs are steep.

I have always used Cataracts oars. Way over the hill oarsman and any thing I can do to make rowing easier is a good thing.

Looking at the Sawyer retail site, a ton of options.

I have always liked the big Carlise outfitter blades on a Cataract shaft.

What square top set up would you or any square top veteran recommend for a beat up over the hill oarsman who still gets on a river when he can ?


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

SAWYER SQUARETOP OAR


Sawyer Square Top Oar - perfect balance and extremely light swing weight make this wood and carbon fiber oar the best rowing oar around.



www.paddlesandoars.com










V-Lam Oar Blade


V-Lam Oar Blades - Sawyer's lightest oar blade makes rowing easier.



www.paddlesandoars.com





would be my choice, but then the MXG shafts with the counterbalance are what I row on my Avon pro, and I'm an old guy too 😆


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## okieboater (Oct 19, 2004)

Many thanks
Now to figure out how to convince Santa I need new oars !!!!


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## jberg421 (Jul 19, 2020)

MNichols said:


> SAWYER SQUARETOP OAR
> 
> 
> Sawyer Square Top Oar - perfect balance and extremely light swing weight make this wood and carbon fiber oar the best rowing oar around.
> ...


Any suggestions for mostly fishing and the occasional whitewater day. I think I’m gonna get 9.5 footers. Just not sure which model. Thanks


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

Well, the square tops with the vlam blade i think would be the hot ticket, OR have MT4runner make you a custom set, I absolutely love the ones he made for me... Sweetest oars, and lightest I have ever owned..


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

Sorry, it wasn't supposed to be duplicate images and it won't let me delete one of them....

And all of a sudden, the delete function works LOL


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

okieboater said:


> What square top set up would you or any square top veteran recommend for a beat up over the hill oarsman who still gets on a river when he can ?


V-Lam's or dynelites. V-lams are laminated western red cedar core, dynelites are a foam core composite.
But recommending them because they're the lightest. Add a light blade and a counterweight on top and the combo is magic.

Too many people look only at adding a counterweight, but reducing weight in the blades reduces swing weight and does far more than a counterweight alone (because the blade end is a longer lever arm)


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

MNichols said:


> Well, the square tops with the vlam blade i think would be the hot ticket, OR have MT4runner make you a custom set, I absolutely love the ones he made for me... Sweetest oars, and lightest I have ever owned..


thanks buddy. I have fun building them.


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## HitMcG (Jun 6, 2018)

MT4Runner, those are some sweet looking sticks. You obviously take a lot of pride in your work.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

Thank you, I have fun working with wood, and even more fun building things I can use on the river!


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## GeoRon (Jun 24, 2015)

If you want oars for mostly casual boating that are kind on your shoulders without spending a boat load of money or spending a boat load of time making(and doing periodic maintenance), checkout Sawyer Polecats. Nothing glamorous but they perfectly serve the purpose I describe, i.e. a wood feel that won't break the bank and they have Sawyer grip compatibility relative to internal counterbalancing and aftermarket ergo grips; i.e. Gilman Grips.

I've always strongly discouraged external Cataract counter balance weights. That mass of skull cracking metal is nothing I'd like to have flailing around during heavy water chaos for me or passengers but then again casual boating is a different situation.


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## GeoRon (Jun 24, 2015)

jberg421 said:


> Any suggestions for mostly fishing and the occasional whitewater day. I think I’m gonna get 9.5 footers. Just not sure which model. Thanks


Yes, Sawyer Polecats. They are offered as 9.5 footers. Cheap relative to what you are hearing. They are very kind on the shoulders equal in every regard to "wood".

The feedback you are getting is ego related. I wished I had the money or skill/time to be egotistic about my purchase or construction of oars. What you are seeing is artwork that frankly I'd pay happily for. Beautiful!!!

For less money, go with Polecats, 9.5 with upgraded Gilman counter balanced grips. All these guys will say "logical" affordable option.


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## screamingeagle (Jun 14, 2011)

jberg421 said:


> Does anyone know if the counterbalanced sgg shafts from Cataract get you the same counterbalance as the handles would? Looking at 10’ shafts and noticed the un weighted shafts to be less expensive? Thanks all


I think that the internal handles are the same weight as the eternal ones. But if you look at the cost difference it's way cheaper to get the built in ones if it's something you know that you want. It's also worth noting that Cataract did have a large issue with their handles falling off about a year or so ago. I know of a number of folks that had their handles just fall off while rowing thru a rapid, which is honestly just amazing to me that they could be that bad and a serious threat to safety! So, if you are looking at Cataract you might want to make sure they have solved that issue. I agree with buy once cry once. Squaretops are amazing and worth the money, just try and get them from a local dealer so you don't have to pay the shipping costs which can be crazy!


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## jberg421 (Jul 19, 2020)

cool, I think I’ve been convinced to go full fan boy and get some square tops or some customs from _MT4Runner_


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

How about square tops from MT4Runner?!! The bookmatched overlay he does is unequaled in beauty! Especially if you don't go the epoxy coated route and use boat soup, or LMTV, I like the warm look it gives the wood, a lot...

I hearald your decision, you surely won't regret it, your upper body will thank you with every stroke you take.


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## GeoRon (Jun 24, 2015)

jberg421 said:


> cool, I think I’ve been convinced to go full fan boy and get some square tops or some customs from _MT4Runner_


You'll likely never regret your decision. As was appropriately said, "Buy once cry once" but smile going forward each time you use them.


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## Chico (Apr 18, 2017)

Definitely check out Sawyer Square Tops. They get my highest rating. Totally worth it.


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## JimG (May 29, 2009)

So pre-counter weight days we used lead fishing weights to balance the oar (wrapped in duct tape, which eventually made a mess) then the external counterweights became available. The nice thing about the external weights is that they can easily be moved up or down to balance the oar with the blade on. The plastic lock screws could however could come loose and slip. Then came the internal counterweights, nicer looking, but harder to balance. Some times you have to move the oarlock post in or out to get the proper balance. Somebody mentioned that lighter blades reduce swing weight (mass), this can be helpful when you have longer heavier oars. I like my oars to be slightly blade heavy, at the point where I can easily hold level with two fingers pressing down on the grips. My wife likes them even lighter - just the weight of her hands resting on the grips will balance the oars. Spend the time to fine tune your oars. Your shoulders, elbows and wrists will thank you in the long term.


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