# North wash take out. rated M



## duct tape (Aug 25, 2009)

The ramp varies with the weather, use and flow. Last time I was there, two years ago so sorry not current, we had to winch our boats up on roller tubes or carry, with trucks/trailers kept up top. But reason I’m posting is I’ve read recently of changes downstream of North Wash which make route finding difficult with a story of one group getting stuck. If I can find any details will post, but maybe search ?


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## duct tape (Aug 25, 2009)

Here’s some info which might help, under two links:





Trip Reports — Returning Rapids of Cataract Canyon







www.returningrapids.com




.


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## duct tape (Aug 25, 2009)

Forgot to address rest of your question. At our flow, maybe 12k and lake level maybe 3610?, there wasn’t much of a gap b/w the bottom of the gravel ramp and the water, although the rest of the ramp was an eroded mess. But don’t step off to the upstream side! Bottomless mud, at least then. Also the times I’ve been there the river chanel moves closer and away from the ramp.


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## yardsells (Jul 14, 2014)

My rule of thumb is 3600 ft lake elevation and northwash is decent for my snout. If not I run to bullfrog or halls.
Might ask canyonlands or [email protected] eddyline welding.


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## azpowell (Aug 14, 2014)

Whoever is responsible for this amazing document deserves countless free ice cold beers... this is probably one of the coolest things I've come across!! Thank you for the link!!


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## azpowell (Aug 14, 2014)

yardsells said:


> My rule of thumb is 3600 ft lake elevation and northwash is decent for my snout. If not I run to bullfrog or halls.
> Might ask canyonlands or [email protected] eddyline welding.


 Speaking of your snout... it was your amazing videos that sealed the deal for me on pursuing a snout. Have a ton of work to complete so I can be ready for high water cat 2022


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## IntrepidXJ (Jun 27, 2008)

I stopped by the ramp at the end of January and it was steep but went straight down into the river, from what I recall.


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## BGillespie (Jul 15, 2018)

azpowell said:


> Speaking of your snout... it was your amazing videos that sealed the deal for me on pursuing a snout. Have a ton of work to complete so I can be ready for high water cat 2022


@yardsells is the Snout Shaman...


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## yardsells (Jul 14, 2014)

azpowell said:


> Speaking of your snout... it was your amazing videos that sealed the deal for me on pursuing a snout. Have a ton of work to complete so I can be ready for high water cat 2022


Uhh... I'm blushing 😊

2022?


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## zbaird (Oct 11, 2003)

When I called to book last week , Kris at coyote shuttle said the the devil takeout is unusable right now. Not sure what It looks like to put in. Hopefully some dirt gets pushed around soon. Please report back if you have eyes on it.


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## azpowell (Aug 14, 2014)

yardsells said:


> Uhh... I'm blushing 😊
> 
> 2022?


I have a grand trip this year May-June and will most likely miss high water cat this year on the snout... definitely plan on running cat in mid July with an oar rig since we all got skunked on everything else


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## B4otter (Apr 20, 2009)

Lake elevation 3570, looking pretty dismal... Supposedly even Bullfrog Main launch is not operational although I haven't called to see. Halls Crossing viable, it's just out of the way unless coming from south or east... 

4100 cfs inflow markedly less than current release (Glen Canyon Damn), which means continued drop in lake elevation. Snowpack in both drainages is WAY below "normal." My gut - first ran Cat in '76 - tells me what runoff we'll get will be early and not much...


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## scrtsqurrl (Feb 21, 2014)

B4otter said:


> Lake elevation 3570, looking pretty dismal... Supposedly even Bullfrog Main launch is not operational although I haven't called to see. Halls Crossing viable, it's just out of the way unless coming from south or east...
> 
> 4100 cfs inflow markedly less than current release (Glen Canyon Damn), which means continued drop in lake elevation. Snowpack in both drainages is WAY below "normal." My gut - first ran Cat in '76 - tells me what runoff we'll get will be early and not much...





azpowell said:


> Howdy everyone, wondering if anyone has had eyes on the north wash take out in the last month or so. We are planning on launching 2 snout boats from there for a lake Powell trip to shakedown our snouts (northwash to page). Im aware that it is steep, but was curious if there was a giant mud flat between the channel and the ramp...
> 
> Thanks for the input



Jan 27th

The angle doesn't do it justice. Those ledges are 2-3 ft tall.


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## scrtsqurrl (Feb 21, 2014)

scrtsqurrl said:


> Jan 27th
> 
> The angle doesn't do it justice. Those ledges are 2-3 ft tall.
> 
> View attachment 63296


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## B4otter (Apr 20, 2009)

Water level was 7 feet higher when your photos were taken... If there's been no work on the ramp, it's only worse - and the only way to find out about ramp work is to contact Hite GCNRA ranger, or maybe Hite store (if it's open).


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## scrtsqurrl (Feb 21, 2014)

B4otter said:


> Water level was 7 feet higher when your photos were taken... If there's been no work on the ramp, it's only worse - and the only way to find out about ramp work is to contact Hite GCNRA ranger, or maybe Hite store (if it's open).


Canyonlands reservation office is probably a better bet. I don't think there is even anyone at Hite to answer the phones.


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## pwolfehagen (Sep 18, 2018)

azpowell said:


> I have a grand trip this year May-June and will most likely miss high water cat this year on the snout... definitely plan on running cat in mid July with an oar rig since we all got skunked on everything else


Seems that new snout should be running the Grand this May-June.


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## azpowell (Aug 14, 2014)

pwolfehagen said:


> Seems that new snout should be running the Grand this May-June.


I am taking the 18' dib down the canyon this may-june... if they didn't cut the trip short when you bring a motor I could see myself making a case to the permit holder but i would be a busy man trying to get it ready in time....


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## B4otter (Apr 20, 2009)

I had a look at North Wash yesterday (Sunday, March 7). Photos tomorrow - just got home - but a new ramp is being constructed about 15 yards upstream of the old one (which is unusable). Right now the new ramp is within 25 feet of the river and would be feasible for rafts and a tarp to tarp drag up to a trailer. Snouts, not so much... (maybe with roller tubes AND one heck of a winch.
If you used North Wash in last 3-4 years you may know the location of the new ramp as the furthest upstream point you could take out. It is now marked with one white metal fence post buried in the silt together with a green one. There is also a nice point bar just above that seems to be pretty much eliminating the gooey yuck. All in all, I was encouraged, especially since equipment is on site and work appears ongoing...


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

And it doesn't look like it's going to get any better soon. From our local paper this morning...


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## B4otter (Apr 20, 2009)

Here's photos taken Sunday, March 7 - it was late afternoon and I had to shoot into the sun, particularly noticeable on the first few (upstream looking down). It's about 20-25 feet from the foot of the new ramp to the edge of the river... Last couple of photos are of old ramp - note sqrtsquirrel's earlier pix, the ledges are now 6 feet at least.

The new ramp is even narrower than the old, meaning ramp etiquette will be critical... if you're going to take out here, please note:
1) See the bridge in the background? That's about 10 minutes away, maybe 15 at lower water. *You should have a plan* by the time you go under the bridge... 
2) Unless and until the ramp is extended, you're likely going to have to Sherpa loads off your raft to lighten it for the drag across the unimproved portion (currently only about 20-25 feet, but as river drops - reservoir elevation declines - it will get longer). So *have your stuff untied and ready to unload/carry*. 
3) There's plenty of room above the takeout to pull over and hang while the ramp clears... leave some space, take your turn, and be patient. While the gooey yuck wasn't bad when I was there, it can reappear when the level drops or if it rains - *be prepared to deal with it.*
4) When it's your turn, go for it and *don't stop until your boat and your stuff are out of the way!*

Don't mean to rant but I have seen way too much clueless behavior at this ramp in past few years. It's not 4 lane like Cisco or 7 lanes like Split Mountain - it's a narrow, one boat/trailer/rig at a time in a wild setting where no one wants to watch you struggle. So don't... if you need motivation, go use the planet's grossest bathrooms in the upper parking lot - that will make you want to get outta' there!

Last two are the foot of the old ramp and the old ramp with new in background, car for perspective... as a photographer, I'm kinda' like having two good men call in sick...


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

You may suck at photography, but a picture is worth a thousand words, and those photos speak volumes. Thanks so much for this, the only thing that pops to mind is it's going to get worse before it gets better... add a couple of days to the trip and head for bullfrog!


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## B4otter (Apr 20, 2009)

Talked to some power boaters who took out at Bullfrog and they said it's close to being shut down by GCNRA ranger... That leaves Halls Crossing, which is really scenic and about the same distance from Hite, but longer by road especially if coming from Salt Lake... Check reservoir level and call Bullfrog if in doubt. This webpage already says Bullfrog "unusable": Lake Powell Water Database

Note one year ago reservoir was *31 feet higher ! * And by Sells' rule of thumb old takeout would have been usable... I know you folks went to Bullfrog last year Memorial Day weekend, so you have good gauge of time/effort/gasoline required.


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

Certainly not good news. 31 ft lower you say! Wow... Looks like we're going to Halls this year...


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## B4otter (Apr 20, 2009)

As for launching a snout, and having done so @ Mineral a few times including at least once where it took 14-15 folks to get the beast floating, I'd say the new takeout is on the border of feasible if you have enough crew to move it on dry land. Even more important is whether it gets rained on or flooded - no way the gooey yuck will let it go...


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## duct tape (Aug 25, 2009)

At this rate, Dark Canyon, one of this biggest historical Cat rapids, will be reappearing someday, maybe soon.


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## scrtsqurrl (Feb 21, 2014)

Naw, not in our lifetime. Headward erosion has to work it's way down. We're clearing gypsum now. There's still +100 ft of sediment at Dark. Wish it wasn't so but we're in for a long slow process even with a low lake.


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

I have to agree, being up high on the lake, that's where most of the sediment started to build back in the day, and has done nothing but accumulate over the years. Would be cool to see though.....


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## azpowell (Aug 14, 2014)

duct tape said:


> At this rate, Dark Canyon, one of this biggest historical Cat rapids, will be reappearing someday, maybe soon.


Check out the link posted in the beginning of this thread... dark canyon is going to stay buried for sure if they don't correct the channel at the dirty devil confluence


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## B4otter (Apr 20, 2009)

Who is this "they" of whom you speak? NPS? The outfitters who run Cat? 
The Dirty Devil confluence is not the problem - the ramp is and always has been well downstream of that, and slightly upstream of North Wash. And to "...correct the channel..." is making an awful lot of assumptions without further study, as the report you cite makes clear. Also good luck on getting agreement on what is "correct"...

What is clear is that the river is dynamic, and it will take work and study to construct a solution that will last more than a few years. The river has shifted from its former channel, whether it maintains new course or goes back, who knows? Meanwhile, we can determine how deep the silt is at various points at the current takeout, construct a profile, and figure out probabilities. But a ramp where you can load directly onto a trailer isn't likely for the forseeable future, and maybe well past our lifetimes. And that's not necessarily a bad thing... 

The HIte ramp was extended in a big (well over $1M) project back when I was out of the country, I think late 90's or early 2000's. And how long was it useable? Not a good ROI...

As of Sunday, 3/8, what I saw looked pretty good, sensible, and practical. You're not going to put a powerboat in there without a lot of effort, a snout would be epic (although with roller tubes and some assistance, feasible) - but rafts can take out with some help from your friends and good organization. All this can change in one good rainstorm or if the reservoir level rises (not likely this year but we could still get some good big storms that would help the snowpack).


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## azpowell (Aug 14, 2014)

B4otter said:


> Who is this "they" of whom you speak? NPS? The outfitters who run Cat?
> The Dirty Devil confluence is not the problem - the ramp is and always has been well downstream of that, and slightly upstream of North Wash. And to "...correct the channel..." is making an awful lot of assumptions without further study, as the report you cite makes clear. Also good luck on getting agreement on what is "correct"...
> 
> What is clear is that the river is dynamic, and it will take work and study to construct a solution that will last more than a few years. The river has shifted from its former channel, whether it maintains new course or goes back, who knows? Meanwhile, we can determine how deep the silt is at various points at the current takeout, construct a profile, and figure out probabilities. But a ramp where you can load directly onto a trailer isn't likely for the forseeable future, and maybe well past our lifetimes. And that's not necessarily a bad thing...
> ...



"They" would have to be someone under the DOI umbrella... I personally would like to see further natural sediment removal in the lower canyon... if the current situation persists for a while there is a possibility of a waterfall upstream of the current take out... (not sure where I found this picture, but found it interesting)... a large waterfall situation like what is below clay hills is personally not a situation i would advocate for. 

I have no problem bringing smaller rafts for cataract trips so the take out situation is easier. Or motoring down to another take out. 

While some of us discuss the condition of the ramp or ramp etiquette, it is good to know that folks are worried about the condition of the river or if that ramp will even be accessible due to waterfalls upstream and down stream... 

We will be launching from halls this trip because I will have to do some serious work for my snout trailer to be feasible at north wash. I think we could get my buddies snout in the water with his trailer and maybe 2 roller tubes... (I have trailer envy)


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## B4otter (Apr 20, 2009)

Yes, that trailer would work for launch on the ramp in current condition - pretty sure, 'tho I don't mess with snouts much anymore. Takeout, not so sure - even with rollers. Fill might not be compacted enough. If you absolutely had to launch at North Wash, could always put your snout on the ground, launch his, load yours, launch it... There's plenty of places right there where you could make gravity work for you...

The map from the study/report shows the DD "headwall" at 3670 feet elevation and it is well out now with the reservoir level 100 feet lower... and the location of possible "waterfall" (nick point) is BELOW the current takeout, not above. Which would make motoring on down to another takeout 'purt near impossible, if it looks like Paiute Falls... btw, somebody lost a boat that went over Paiute Fall a few years back - discussed here on the Buzz - not pretty.


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## duct tape (Aug 25, 2009)

azpowell said:


> Check out the link posted in the beginning of this thread... dark canyon is going to stay buried for sure if they don't correct the channel at the dirty devil confluence


Im the guy who posted the link.

There are 60’ high dirt walls below the last rapids right now. Between two years Imperial Rapid went from a ripple to huge waves with maybe 3-4 more rapids below it. It would only take a few high water springs to flush out the channel, leaving more dirt walls for more impossible-to-access campsites. The real issue is the lake prob will never drop that low as it would be well below the pen stocks.


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

duct tape said:


> Im the guy who posted the link.
> The real issue is the lake prob will never drop that low as it would be well below the pen stocks.


I don't think the runoff cares about the penstocks.. I as well rather doubt that the folks in AZ, NM, UT, CA et al have the ability to, or the willingness to cut their consumption to the levels that would maintain the lake if the current drought continues. I read an article last year, and I can't remember where, that stated that this isn't a drought, what we experienced from the 50s to 2000 was an above normal amount of precipitation, and that the current conditions are normal I remember thinking, I sure hope not.. I can always dream, ala "Seldom Seen Smith"...


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## yardsells (Jul 14, 2014)

We did a trip last season with an engineer who worked in water storage and transport and he told us the 5 years they chose to use in determining the viability of the powell project were the 5 wettest years on record in the affected basins. 

With municipal and agricultural growth in the west, the demand on the resource seems unrelenting. 

I think dead pool is 3300-ish feet.


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

200 feet to the river, woo hoo  At 30+ feet a year, which likely will increase exponentially as the canyon narrows, unless some epic rainfall happens, ala Noah's Ark epic, I'm guessing this will be an issue for years to come. 





__





Lake Powell Water Database


Lake Powell Water Database




lakepowell.water-data.com




3569 feet as of right this minute.. 

According to this 2018 article, It would reach “dead pool” at 3,370 feet 








Lake Powell could become a ‘dead pool’ as climate change, political wars and unabated growth drain its waters


<b>Bullfrog Marina</b> • Ever since the Colorado River began filling Utah’s Glen Canyon and its countless side canyons in 1963, conservationists have been calling for emptying the lake that now supports a recreation economy and power generation.




www.sltrib.com





So, at this juncture, 199 feet till "Dead Pool"..


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## xileff (May 27, 2009)

Dark Canyon was apparently biggish, but the old timers used to say that the Big Drops were always the biggest. And most of the lower canyon rapids were largely wave-trains.


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

xileff said:


> Dark Canyon was apparently biggish, but the old timers used to say that the Big Drops were always the biggest. And most of the lower canyon rapids were largely wave-trains.


I was kind of sort of thinking the same thing, and while I'm not an old enough timer to remember dark canyon rapid, I have to tell you big drops too and three at 40, 000 were way more than enough to get my clear and undivided attention...


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## B4otter (Apr 20, 2009)

Hardly anyone left who has run Dark Canyon... but the old timers I've known (Fred Eisemann, Jake Luck, Kenny Ross) put it right up there with the drops. The drops at 40k are still fun - at 60k they are terrifying. At 80k you feel "...like a little boy caught doing something you know you shouldn't 'oughta be..."


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

B4otter said:


> Hardly anyone left who has run Dark Canyon... but the old timers I've known (Fred Eisemann, Jake Luck, Kenny Ross) put it right up there with the drops. The drops at 40k are still fun - at 60k they are terrifying. At 80k you feel "...like a little boy caught doing something you know you shouldn't 'oughta be..."


Some trips, I get that feeling a lot lol rowing wooden dories through Grand canyon, that'll do her!

Excellent summation!


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## duct tape (Aug 25, 2009)

xileff said:


> Dark Canyon was apparently biggish, but the old timers used to say that the Big Drops were always the biggest. And most of the lower canyon rapids were largely wave-trains.


Take a look at Mile 86.1:








Cataract Canyon


Cataract Canyon is a section of the Colorado River between Moab above Lake Powell and the Grand Canyon. It flows through the heart of Canyonlands National Park, the largest national park in Utah and one of the most magical areas in the state. This remote region of the park is only visited by a...




www.whitewaterguidebook.com




.

edited from first try


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

Ummm, you mean 86.1?


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## dsrtrat (May 29, 2011)

Here is a graphic of Glen Canyon Dam showing dead pool.


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## dsrtrat (May 29, 2011)

3490 is the minimum elevation needed for power generation without air entering the penstocks. Elevation today 3570.


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## dsrtrat (May 29, 2011)

yardsells said:


> We did a trip last season with an engineer who worked in water storage and transport and he told us the 5 years they chose to use in determining the viability of the powell project were the 5 wettest years on record in the affected basins.
> 
> With municipal and agricultural growth in the west, the demand on the resource seems unrelenting.
> 
> I think dead pool is 3300-ish feet.


Dead pool is 3374' . I posted a graphic showing the dam structures an the end of this thread.


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

dsrtrat said:


> 3490 is the minimum elevation needed for power generation without air entering the penstocks. Elevation today 3570.


So, basically 80 feet till there's no reason to keep the dam ? Not that it'll ever go anywhere, but one can hope..


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## dsrtrat (May 29, 2011)

Lots of factors in play as the water would drop. Power head pressure loss, cavitation that would effect generation. Once the turbines are no longer running the river outlet works would be the only way to pass water around the dam. They can only pass 15,000 cfs until dead pool is reached. As the level drops less storage is available due to the topography of the canyon but also less surface area exposed to evaporation. It would be interesting to see but not likely in my lifetime.


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## BGillespie (Jul 15, 2018)

MNichols said:


> So, basically 80 feet till there's no reason to keep the dam ? Not that it'll ever go anywhere, but one can hope..


If anyone finds a golden lamp and gets three wishes, please make this one!


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## duct tape (Aug 25, 2009)

Regarding earlier comments about Dark Canyon rapid, take a look at the last few seconds of this video w lake at 3566. Small riffle forming.


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## craven_morhead (Feb 20, 2007)

Bumping this old thread: has anyone continued to Bullfrog lately to avoid the mess at N. Wash? If so, how'd that work out for you?


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## yardsells (Jul 14, 2014)

I'm launching tomorrow. Should hit delta Saturday morning. I'll post report.


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## craven_morhead (Feb 20, 2007)

Appreciate it!


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## yardsells (Jul 14, 2014)

Ok. So the Section from Whites Canyon to Buoy 130 is totally runnable. Current all the way to the flotsam field at buoy 129b. Its a little sketchy in places but just pay attention. If you get beached, don't get out of your boat. It's like quicksand.
I posted our run out from Cat on you tube which is my delta run. Sorry for the wind noise. It was pretty breezy.
The lake elevation was at like 3533 yesterday. Cat was low to mid 20's.

EXTREMELY M rated.


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## tBatt (May 18, 2020)

Good to finally meet ya Sells.

Current at North Wash is super fast with a boily eddy access. I set up river L incase anyone missed the takeout. I could barely ferry across with my 20hp. We did see a snout rig and two sport boats take out there.


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

Still pretty steep and loose.. Thanks man, crazy how the current was ripping.. Not what I would have thought..


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## yardsells (Jul 14, 2014)

tBatt said:


> Good to finally meet ya Sells.
> 
> Current at North Wash is super fast with a boily eddy access. I set up river L incase anyone missed the takeout. I could barely ferry across with my 20hp. We did see a snout rig and two sport boats take out there.


Nice to meet you too. Let's do a trip sometime.

There's a vehicle at the waterline just down stream of northwash on river right. It is stabilized with ropes but heads up.









Body pulled from car that fell into Lake Powell, possibly there almost a year


HITE, Utah (ABC4) – Authorities in southern Utah have recovered a body from a vehicle in Lake Powell near Hite Marina. Sheriff Danny Perkins of the Garfield County Sheriff’s Office says…



www.abc4.com


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## tBatt (May 18, 2020)

This just popped up on Facebook 🫠


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## oarframe (Jun 25, 2008)

Yikes


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## tBatt (May 18, 2020)

I have a hard time believing that wasn't taken in the upper eddy. There is/was no vegetation at the ramp waterline.


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

If it's the same Anna Folks that's a guide for mild to wild that posted that, I've met her a couple years back, she'd likely know the take out from an upstream cliff, but then it is zuckerbook and anything posted there is suspect anyway, to me..


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## scrtsqurrl (Feb 21, 2014)

MNichols said:


> 78496[/ATTACH]


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## tBatt (May 18, 2020)

Welp. Turns out that’s the actual ramp. So much as gotten eaten away that it went all the way up to the vegetation. 

Woah scrtsqrrl beat me to it, I was just uploading that photo. 

Holy fuck. Sounds like bullfrog or bust.


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

Now that's pretty special. Thanks for sharing..


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

tBatt said:


> Welp. Turns out that’s the actual ramp. So much as gotten eaten away that it went all the way up to the vegetation.
> 
> Woah scrtsqrrl beat me to it, I was just uploading that photo.
> 
> Holy fuck. Sounds like bullfrog or bust.


I thought Stateline was the only one open ? Hadn't heard anything since 2 weeks ago. Either one is a long way away..


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## Shaft (Aug 7, 2017)

MNichols said:


> I thought Stateline was the only one open ? Hadn't heard anything since 2 weeks ago. Either one is a long way away..


Bullfrog executive ramp extension is open, houseboats are launching there...for now. No first hand experience but I check out the low water updates from GCNRA plus Yardsells took out there recently.

Just to add insult to injury:


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

Shaft said:


> Bullfrog executive ramp extension is open, houseboats are launching there...for now. No first hand experience but I check out the low water updates from GCNRA plus Yardsells took out there recently.
> 
> Just to add insult to injury:
> 
> View attachment 78505


Wow... Thanks for the update! Doesn't look like fun...


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## craven_morhead (Feb 20, 2007)

Correct, as shown it's the actual ramp that got eaten away. We took out yesterday. One commercial rig managed to get their snout rig up on roller tubes up the hand-carry "ramp" ("ramp" in only the loosest sense of the word). It was impressive but it took a lot of roller tubes and a lot of cable. The PVC pipes we brought weren't going to cut it. Fortunately there were a number of private and commercial groups taking out so we were able to de-rig and hand-carry boats. Took us about 3 hours to help the commercial crew take out and then take out ourselves.


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## jwhisenant (7 mo ago)

We took out a trip on North Wash yesterday... watching that snout go up the cliff was insane. 

We hand carried 3x16' rafts up – not pleasant, but not impossible. 

Thanks to everybody for helping us get out effectively. Hope we were able to do a little in return and get outta y'all's ways 

Only other thing to add is – watch that fast current through there! It is freaking tight! 

Unbelievable that there is really no solution to this. Just brutal.


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

jwhisenant said:


> We took out a trip on North Wash yesterday... watching that snout go up the cliff was insane.
> 
> We hand carried 3x16' rafts up – not pleasant, but not impossible.
> 
> ...


There's a solution to it, just add money. And an EIS, and the federal government...

Well... I guess there's no solution...


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## richp (Feb 27, 2005)

Seems like the outfitters and NPS could engineer and fund a reverse version of the launch ramp up on the Middle Fork. Didn't some kind of cooperative arrangement contribute to the ramp at Pearce Ferry?


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## jwhisenant (7 mo ago)

richp said:


> Seems like the outfitters and NPS could engineer and fund a reverse version of the launch ramp up on the Middle Fork. Didn't some kind of cooperative arrangement contribute to the ramp at Pearce Ferry?


There is this raging debate... Everybody advocates extending the Hite ramp. My question is... why don't you leave the original Hite ramp high and dry, run a little gravel road to the river, and pour a new ramp below Hite. Seems hard to build a real ramp at North Wash, based on the perched river and all the sediment. 

Idk, until then I feel like you either have boats you can break apart and carry up a cliff, or put enough hp behind your boat so you can bang over to Bullfrog in a few hrs.


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## B4otter (Apr 20, 2009)

Two lanes of the North Ramp are now open at Bullfrog, according to latest info on NPS website.

It's 50 miles from North Wash to Bullfrog, you will be hard pressed to get there in "a few hours" regardless how much hp you use to push a barge. And the faster you go, the more wear and tear on your boats. Under ideal conditions, you MIGHT be able to average 6 mph pushing a barge, more realistic given wind and waves on "Lake" is around 5. Individual boats can go faster, but motoring is general is much harder on them than rowing. Hull speed is not what rafts are built for, although some are better than others (the more "cat-like" the faster, generally).

Unfortunately I don't think any solution for North Wash takeout is imminent, likely will take serious injury or some other disaster to focus attention...


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## tBatt (May 18, 2020)

I’m curious what will happen first, an improved boat ramp or a lottery system.


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## KlaustheK (Mar 20, 2021)

Is using Hite realistic? That would be much more convenient if you could drive near the river without getting stuck in the muck. Is the muck dry enough now that it could be driven on?


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

KlaustheK said:


> Is using Hite realistic? That would be much more convenient if you could drive near the river without getting stuck in the muck. Is the muck dry enough now that it could be driven on?


Nope, not at all...


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## Bootboy (Aug 25, 2020)

KlaustheK said:


> Is using Hite realistic? That would be much more convenient if you could drive near the river without getting stuck in the muck. Is the muck dry enough now that it could be driven on?


Only if you have your own personal bulldozer waiting at the takeout. It’s a wasteland of bottomless, tamarisk infested silt deposits, and massive, unstable cut banks.


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## Whitewater Worthy Equip (Dec 11, 2013)

If only someone made rollers that could be installed in a rack system that could be adjusted to the current status of the ramp using rails from a railroad. Hum, I might know a guy.


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## theusualsuspect (Apr 11, 2014)

Bootboy said:


> Only if you have your own personal bulldozer waiting at the takeout. It’s a wasteland of bottomless, tamarisk infested silt deposits, and massive, unstable cut banks.


I tried to drive to the hite boat ramp this spring. It had concrete barriers placed across the road just passed the now closed gas station, couldn't get to the ramp.


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