# Camps between Pumphouse and State Bridge???



## threepin (Oct 22, 2005)

So, some friends of ours asked us to take them down the Upper C from Pumphouse to State Bridge next weekend. Man, I haven't boated this mellow section for at least 5 years, and have no idea of any overnight beta. Any help would be greatly appreciated! 

So, we were thinking of running shuttle & launching from Pumphouse on Friday, and taking out at State Bridge or Rancho on Sunday. What would be best two camps on night one and two??? Was thinking of floating it solo and setting up some tents in select spots the day before the launch of our raft trip. Are there still any camps w/ pit toilets??? Would pack the groover if necessary, but would rather not.

Thanks!


----------



## SummitSurfer (Jun 23, 2010)

As the levels drop, uncovering the warm goodness of the hotsprings I would stay at the site above the springs are .25 mile down on left, so u can walk up to the springs to hang out after diner. 
The Second night I'd stay at "Island" just after Yarmony on river left. Big trees privacy etc, next a little further down is "Benches".....I like the last one cause you can set up ur tent in the trees and get plenty of shade through out the day and has a nice beach!
Hope this helps. 
****


----------



## SummitSurfer (Jun 23, 2010)

Opps sorry! Yeah the have fault groovers but they have not been maintained in a year, so bring a groover. 
As far as setting up tents the day before, some might think that to be inconsiderate of people wanting to camp that night. I completely understand your motivation and have been tempted to do the same, but think in the end it would be considered "poor form"
Hope ya have a blast! 

****


----------



## rafterswhite (Jul 9, 2009)

threepin said:


> Was thinking of floating it solo and setting up some tents in select spots the day before the launch of our raft trip. Are there still any camps w/ pit toilets??? Would pack the groover if necessary, but would rather not.
> 
> Thanks!




Nothing is more irritating than floating down looking for a lunch or camp and finding sites with a tent and a chair set up with no one around. If you're launching on a Friday, you'll be fine without hogging sites ahead of time.

Most of the pit toilets have been pulled, BLM is encouraging the use of groovers or wag bags. Likely to be required in the near future.


----------



## threepin (Oct 22, 2005)

Thanks for the advice! I am all about being kind to other boaters! So, we'll just wing it...


----------



## threepin (Oct 22, 2005)

SummitSurfer said:


> As the levels drop, uncovering the warm goodness of the hotsprings I would stay at the site above the springs are .25 mile down on left, so u can walk up to the springs to hang out after diner.
> The Second night I'd stay at "Island" just after Yarmony on river left. Big trees privacy etc, next a little further down is "Benches".....I like the last one cause you can set up ur tent in the trees and get plenty of shade through out the day and has a nice beach!
> Hope this helps.
> ****


U are referring to the hot springs above Radium...are you not???/ I was thinking of putting in at Pumphouse, so this would ne more that 1/4 mile downstream....correct???


----------



## bigben (Oct 3, 2010)

i seem to recall about 1300 being the magic number for the hotsprings just above cottonwood camp(about a mile above radium). there's a good camp site on the left just below the springs. the rocks poke out around 2k, but the pool still fills with river water.
bench 3 is a great campsite. probly my favorite. no pit toilet there anymore tho


----------



## Davisoz (Sep 18, 2009)

I hope you like to listen to trains. We camped one night on that stretch of river and had 13 trains come through. I would NEVER camp in there again.


----------



## SummitSurfer (Jun 23, 2010)

Yep! I was referring to the campsite on the river .25 miles down from the springs on river left that would allow you to hike/walk up to the springs. 
Auto spell correct messed up my first post but yeah we are on the same page sorry for the confusion.


----------



## Mizzo (Jun 29, 2011)

Yep, bring some ear plugs for sure!


----------



## Beardance42 (May 12, 2008)

rafterswhite said:


> Nothing is more irritating than floating down looking for a lunch or camp and finding sites with a tent and a chair set up with no one around.


Agree...100%


----------



## caverdan (Aug 27, 2004)

Beardance42 said:


> Agree...100%


What if they are out doing a lap and plan to raft back to camp that night? With a run that short, I've done laps before where you float down and set up camp for a few days. You float out......take your shuttle vehicle..... go get your rig.....leave your shuttle and load up for pumphouse.....float back to camp and do it again....... if your time allows. You can do two or three laps if your only running to Radium.


----------



## rrb3 (Sep 30, 2009)

threepin said:


> Was thinking of floating it solo and setting up some tents in select spots the day before the launch of our raft trip.


Definitely not cool! There are plenty of campsites this time of year...


----------



## caverdan (Aug 27, 2004)

rrb3 said:


> Definitely not cool! There are plenty of campsites this time of year...


 I do agree this is NOT a good idea.


----------



## rpmcolorado (Jun 8, 2011)

We just ran the run this past weekend. There were plenty of campsites along the way. We camped at a nice beach site just across from the cliffs at the warm spring. Easy swim across to the springs, or you could just ferry it on your raft. The train was definitely loud, as were some of the late night campers that hiked in from above and were camped on top of the cliffs, and we would probably camp elsewhere next time, but it was a fun camp right near the springs. The springs pool was just a little warmer than the river, but will probably warm up more as the river drops. 

Further down, Cabin camps and the Island camps looked really nice, but we were only out for one night so didn't stay. Also saw multiple other unnamed camps on other islands and on the banks too, that looked great with shade.

I would not recommend setting up a tent at a spot unless you are staying there that same night. In my opinion, leaving your stuff at camp all set up is fine if you are running laps.


----------



## kclowe (May 25, 2004)

Caverdan,
I don't think that "lapping" the run would be considered hogging a campsite. I really agree that it is wrong to go out the day before and set up a tent, but I don't see anything wrong with floating in, setting up camp, and then making another lap. As long as you don't intend to leave the camp "unused, but saved". We've done that before. We raft in, set up camp, and then make a lap in the kayaks or paco pads.


----------



## Beardance42 (May 12, 2008)

Sorry...I think 'lapping' a campsite is hogging it. It would be perfectly fine with me if the BLM had a rule that unattended camps were subject to forfeiture. ... but it would be pretty much impossible to enforce. I know people would disagree with this.


----------



## rafterswhite (Jul 9, 2009)

Beardance42 said:


> Sorry...I think 'lapping' a campsite is hogging it. It would be perfectly fine with me if the BLM had a rule that unattended camps were subject to forfeiture. ... but it would be pretty much impossible to enforce. I know people would disagree with this.


Have to agree. If your recreational experience requires that much driving, camp at one of the river access sites and leave the river camps to those that are after a little more solitude.


----------



## caverdan (Aug 27, 2004)

So I guess you guys are against lay over days or occupying a campsite for more than one night. What if the whole group went hiking for the day and didn't leave anyone in camp? Wouldn't this be the same as running a lap? Just curious.


----------



## Chance G (Jul 13, 2011)

For me the difference is the boats being gone. 

Is that cheap tent and chair still sitting at Island?


----------



## rafterswhite (Jul 9, 2009)

caverdan said:


> So I guess you guys are against lay over days or occupying a campsite for more than one night. What if the whole group went hiking for the day and didn't leave anyone in camp? Wouldn't this be the same as running a lap? Just curious.



If your enjoying what that camp has to offer, great it's all yours. If your off enjoying what other parts of the river have to offer, let someone else enjoy what that camp has to offer.


----------



## Beardance42 (May 12, 2008)

caverdan said:


> So I guess you guys are against lay over days or occupying a campsite for more than one night.


On Pumphouse, on the weekend, during the high season....yeah, I'd be against that.


----------



## SummitSurfer (Jun 23, 2010)

I'd have to respectfully disagree with you beardance....
I think that if you boat into a campsite and want to spend a day or two there after setting up camp, do a hike in the area or do a kayak lap or two, then return to the site to cook sleep rest for the night.....its fair game.
If you go and set up a tent, to keep someone out of the site, don't use it at all that night or day and come back the next day, then thats wrong because your not using it at all and just preventing anyone, including yourself for the night from using it.

But hey.........thats just my two cents.

****


----------



## skipowpow (Mar 1, 2011)

Beardance42 said:


> *On Pumphouse*, *on the weekend*, *during the high season*....yeah, I'd be against that.


Agree. It is called being considerate. Besides, what day hiking is there really where you all are going to leave the site. Occupy or vacate.

November - you can live at island for all I care.


----------



## kclowe (May 25, 2004)

Help me out here. We leave our camps unattended on lots of overnight boating and car camping trips. We aren't "saving" them, we are using them. If we float in and set up camp then go off and do something fun, I don't see the issue. I don't think it matters if it's a hike or a float. This is common practice. If you are saying that the camp must be occupied the entire time, then I feel sorry for the guy that gets stuck "holding" the camp. I don't consider this the same thing as someone floating in on Thursday and setting up a tent and chair so that they can claim the camp for Friday night. It is two completely different situations. One is trying to "trick" other boaters into thinking the camp is already taken and the other is not. I think intent is important in this situation. If you are keeping someone else from using a site and don't plan to use it yourself right away, then that is screwed up. BUT, if you just want to leave camp and go have a little fun for a while, then I think it's fine. Am I looking at this wrong? Is this rude?


----------



## skipowpow (Mar 1, 2011)

kclowe said:


> Help me out here. We leave our camps unattended on lots of overnight boating and car camping trips. We aren't "saving" them, we are using them. If we float in and set up camp then go off and do something fun, I don't see the issue. I don't think it matters if it's a hike or a float. This is common practice. If you are saying that the camp must be occupied the entire time, then I feel sorry for the guy that gets stuck "holding" the camp. I don't consider this the same thing as someone floating in on Thursday and setting up a tent and chair so that they can claim the camp for Friday night. It is two completely different situations. One is trying to "trick" other boaters into thinking the camp is already taken and the other is not. I think intent is important in this situation. If you are keeping someone else from using a site and don't plan to use it yourself right away, then that is screwed up. BUT, if you just want to leave camp and go have a little fun for a while, then I think it's fine. Am I looking at this wrong? Is this rude?


I'll clarify a bit. The Pumphouse to Catamount stretch late July - early September, I think it is uncool to occupy a river site (not the campgrounds or other backcountry site) for multiple days while you run laps or have folks swing by on the weekend.

Other places or other times, not a big a deal at all.


----------



## kclowe (May 25, 2004)

I also don't see anything wrong with camping for multiple nights in the same place (that is not permitted or regulated) and still having a good time on the river during the day. I guess we will just have to agree to disagree.


----------



## caverdan (Aug 27, 2004)

Interesting discussion.......It never crossed my mind that people were offended by this type of camping and river use.


----------



## kclowe (May 25, 2004)

News to me, too. I don't mean to offend anyone. I just don't see anything wrong with it.


----------



## Jensjustduckie (Jun 29, 2007)

I think it's the MASSIVE disappointment of seeing no raft at your favorite site on the river - only to pull up and see some crappy Wal Mart tent set up and your entire nights dreams are crushed. It sucks ballz.


----------



## J (Nov 6, 2003)

It's considerate, but not required, to camp at Radium or Rancho or Pumphouse if you plan on doing laps in the high traffic season. Leave the river sites for those just passing through for a night. 

I don't see any problem if you are boating into a campsite, hiking for the day out of the campsite or just enjoying camp and staying for 2 nights or whatever. That's fair game.

Poaching a site on Thursday night, and not sleeping there, so you can use it Friday night should be punishable by death.


----------



## Eagle Mapper (Mar 24, 2008)

I agree that it is disappointing not to get a campsite in your favorite area or where you had wanted to camp but those are the breaks. You see this very same thing in developed / undeveloped campsites if someone stays for more than one night. You can't be mad b/c someone got to the camp before you. The idea that someone has to stay with the camp to make it legit is just ridiculous.


----------



## threepin (Oct 22, 2005)

Very interesting conversation! I definitely agree w/ all involved re: hogging space and setting up a camp to reserve space. This is a problem on 2 sections of the CO River (Pumphose and Ruby/Horsethief) where camps are taken by others that overstay their welcome. Personally, I see absolutely nothing wrong w/ staying in the canyon, and running day trips on Pumphouse. Someone mention leave it for those who are passing through...... Where are they passing through from???? Did them and their family just run Gore?????

I will not be saving any space for anyone on Pumphouse this weekend, but will be in the area and running day trips. The sheer volume of boaters, and the beginner boaters w/ absolutely no etiquette when it comes to time used at the boat ramps are the very reasons I have stayed away from this section for so long!

Thanks again for the interesting debate!


----------



## kclowe (May 25, 2004)

Yeah, that does suck and it makes me crazy when it happens to me. I usually leave the rafts at camp and lap the run with my kayak. Either way, there's usually so much stuff there it's obvious that people are actually camping there. We don't travel light these days  The site savers are jerks, but that's a different situation.


----------



## rafterswhite (Jul 9, 2009)

kclowe said:


> I also don't see anything wrong with camping for multiple nights in the same place (that is not permitted or regulated) and still having a good time on the river during the day. I guess we will just have to agree to disagree.


Gray area... camp well utilized, and yet on this stretch with all the day use, limits lunch spots. If you get three groups doing this below radium and two commercial groups get down there and take spots for lunch, every one else ends up eating on the weeds. (Which I often strive for while fishing, but if you have guests, sometimes the established sites are nice). I have a hard time deciding to pull in and use someone's camp for my lunch spot. Pushing on poor etiquette.


----------



## Eagle Mapper (Mar 24, 2008)

I would think if someone has a camp taken but they are out running a lap, it would be fine to stop and have lunch as long you don't distrub their belongings. I am curious what other peoples thoughts are on this topic.


----------



## Beardance42 (May 12, 2008)

From my perspective, I don't see much difference between the night-before site savers (who may be elsewhere in the canyon - who knows?) and the camp-then-do-a-lappers. How far away do you have to get from the river before you're saving a site? Home? The other side of the Trough road? Whatever's convenient? What time do you have to return to your tent to make it a legitimate spot for the night? And if you don't return...who'll know?

The other issue, which may not be germaine, is whether the unoccupied tent you see up at 10:30 in the morning will be there that night, or if someone plans to break down after their day lap is over? If no one's around, you can't even ask. 

I guess if their stuff is there, you forfeit the right to ask, since it's theirs until it isn't. I've pulled into Island on a Saturday around noon, with other people's tents up, and asked if it was okay if I hung out in the eddy until their party was ready to leave. The question answers itself if no one's there. 

Anyway...it's pretty clear that the already Darwinian fortunes of getting a decent place to camp on a Saturday night are simply that much tougher now. We don't even try anymore - we aim for Thursday night at the res or Pumphouse, and launch early Fri to camp Fri night. Costs a day off work, but it's worth it. It is what it is. 

It wouldn't be me, but I could easily imagine some nasty conflicts arising when a party pulls into a big camp (say, Bench 2), finds one tent and no boat...and decides to set up their stuff anyway. If it's regarded as 'common sense' that a single tent in an otherwise unoccupied campsite means that site is taken, how soon before it becomes 'common sense' that an unoccupied campsite is...unoccupied?


----------



## FrankC (Jul 8, 2008)

How about leaving a cheap Kmart tent and chair at Island campsite for the whole summer so you always have a spot "reserved" for your own usage? Seriously...it is first come first serve on campsites. What idiot would set up a tent on Thursday to hog a site for the weekend.


----------



## nicho (Mar 18, 2009)

threepin;
So said:


> Aholes and Jag Offs pull this BS on the river. Even worse two camp sites. Post when you plan on doing this, I know some folks who can use a new tent and chairs compliments of a real dbag.


----------



## SummitSurfer (Jun 23, 2010)

kclowe......your are 100% CORRECT. I couldn't agree with you more!

Plain and simple people, if you set up camp and plan on staying the night, ITS YOURS.
If you set up camp on Thursday night, leave, and don't plan on staying in that site until Saturday or Sunday.......your a douche bag!


----------



## kclowe (May 25, 2004)

Maybe I'll make up a sign that says "We're camping here tonight, but you are welcome to have lunch or even join our camp. If you are here when I get back, I'll make you a cocktail!"
I've never had a problem sharing my camp with other boaters as long as they don't start barking rules at me (yep, it happened). I certainly wouldn't have an issue with boaters stopping for lunch. 
Beardance, maybe we'll meet on the river at some point. You are welcome to camp with us if we are lucky enough to score one and you don't.


----------



## skipowpow (Mar 1, 2011)

kclowe said:


> Maybe I'll make up a sign that says "*We're camping here tonight, but you are welcome to have lunch or even join our camp. If you are here when I get back, I'll make you a cocktail*!"
> I've never had a problem sharing my camp with other boaters as long as they don't start barking rules at me (yep, it happened). I certainly wouldn't have an issue with boaters stopping for lunch.
> Beardance, maybe we'll meet on the river at some point. You are welcome to camp with us if we are lucky enough to score one and you don't.


THIS!!


----------



## Dave Frank (Oct 14, 2003)

What is BLM policy? I've been leaving a camp and lapping back to it, but have heard it is actually against BLM rules. Never seen it written anywhere.


----------



## kclowe (May 25, 2004)

THIS!!! What does that mean?
If it is against the rules, then I will stop doing it. I haven't seen any rules about it. Anyone else seen anything?


----------



## skipowpow (Mar 1, 2011)

kclowe said:


> THIS!!! What does that mean?
> If it is against the rules, then I will stop doing it. I haven't seen any rules about it. Anyone else seen anything?


It means that this is what I would like to see. I appreciate that you would share your site when the river is crowded and you are not at your camp. I also appreciate cocktails.

Here are the rules: 


> *Stay Limit: *
> Observe Camping Stay Limit: from April 1 to August 31 it is 7 days, and from September 1 to March 31, it is 14 days. Campers must relocate at least 30 miles and may not return within 30 days to a previous campsite. Camping is for recreational purposes only. Personal property may not be left unattended on public land for longer than 24 hours!​


​So lapping doesn't break the rules and sharing is fantastic!

IMHO if you leave your camp along this stretch of river, during the busy season, you forfeit the right to keep the site all to yourself. Setting up a "riverside backcountry base camp" for multiple days while you lap this stretch is frustrating for folks that want to have a simple multiday trip down the river. Getting along is going to be alot easier than getting a permit (see where this could go?).

Mojitos? I'll bring the rum.


----------



## kclowe (May 25, 2004)

hehehe!!!! I love you river people!


----------



## kclowe (May 25, 2004)

oh, and I'm sorry for you non river folk............


----------



## kclowe (May 25, 2004)

I miss it soooooooooooooooooo'


----------



## Beardance42 (May 12, 2008)

kclowe said:


> Beardance, maybe we'll meet on the river at some point. You are welcome to camp with us if we are lucky enough to score one and you don't.


Noted and thanks, we look forward to it.


----------

