# Is anyone else having trouble trying to pick up a Dinosaur cancellation today (3/6)? The Rec.gov website says available on 3/6. No way to even look!



## caverdan (Aug 27, 2004)

It's not 8:00am yet........🐴


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## Grandie (Nov 13, 2015)

No, but you should be able to look at the calendar and see what is available...


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## caverdan (Aug 27, 2004)

I'm in the same boat as you. I can't see it either. Waiting for 8AM.


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## Grandie (Nov 13, 2015)

Yep... Got my timer going. Was hoping to at least know what was out there. Now it will be a scramble. Unless is a typo, and they won't be released until 3/16.


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## caverdan (Aug 27, 2004)

What you're saying would normally make sense.......but were talking wreck.gov.


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## Pinchecharlie (Jul 27, 2017)

Their all gone allready! Sucks but how it is. Go skiing or buy your wife a nice breakfast and better luck next year!!


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## Grandie (Nov 13, 2015)

Well I guess it came and went and I did not get one. Sigh.


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## craven_morhead (Feb 20, 2007)

Y'all are fast. They released this morning but I was a few seconds too slow to snatch one up.


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## Paul_Beckford (Jun 12, 2010)

Gone in seconds. Another year is a bust!


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## Electric-Mayhem (Jan 19, 2004)

Managed to snag a low use permit in October.... I guess I got lucky on my timing.


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## Pinchecharlie (Jul 27, 2017)

Omg! Karma came and got my ass! I got one then it said my password was wrong and locked me out for 30 minutes! Wtf! Le petite Jesus!!! So August 8th is available!


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## Electric-Mayhem (Jan 19, 2004)

Pinchecharlie said:


> Omg! Karma came and got my ass! I got one then it said my password was wrong and locked me out for 30 minutes! Wtf! Le petite Jesus!!! So August 8th is available!


Gotta sign in BEFORE they become available.


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## caverdan (Aug 27, 2004)

Snagged a early September launch on the Yampa. Hope there's enough water to float my boat.


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## wack (Jul 7, 2015)

Drat! Saw lots of good dates pop up but always gone by the time my human fingers clicked


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## DidNotWinLottery (Mar 6, 2018)

There were a TON of great dates that popped, but I missed them all. I grabbed a 3/29 Yampa, but guessing that is too early to have any real chance?


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## Pinchecharlie (Jul 27, 2017)

Haha!! We're all competing with each other for the scraps!! Can not believe I missed a early summer date lol! That's what I get for being such a dick lol!!


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## caverdan (Aug 27, 2004)

DidNotWinLottery said:


> There were a TON of great dates that popped, but I missed them all. I grabbed a 3/29 Yampa, but guessing that is too early to have any real chance?


Bring your winter boat and snow clothes.


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## erschwenk (11 mo ago)

How is it in November? I see a few open dates.


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## Electric-Mayhem (Jan 19, 2004)

🥶


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## IDriverRunner (Aug 18, 2015)

Got a June 29th this AM for Gates of Lodore. Don’t shoot me.


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## John_in_Loveland (Jun 9, 2011)

April 10th Lodore. Upgraded internet finally paid off


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## jsheglund (Feb 20, 2021)

My MacBook crashed when I hit refresh at 7:59:59am and still won’t turn on. I was quick on my phone but only stuff left was in Nov. I want to be warm on a trip someday.


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## wack (Jul 7, 2015)

John_in_Loveland said:


> April 10th Lodore. Upgraded internet finally paid off


Funny John.... I tried clicking on that date when it popped up...glad to hear a fellow Lovelander got it.


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## John_in_Loveland (Jun 9, 2011)

wack said:


> Funny John.... I tried clicking on that date when it popped up...glad to hear a fellow Lovelander got it.


Zach, we should talk. You and I have talked about boating together for a while now. Are you interested?


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## shortbus (Jun 22, 2006)

I read somewhere that people have built algorithms to snatch up desirable dates as soon as they are available. I clicked on Sept 6 as it was available but it said there was a problem with my date selection. I refreshed and it was gone. All this at 8:00 and 30 seconds.


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## IATNR (Oct 2, 2013)

shortbus said:


> I read somewhere that people have built algorithms to snatch up desirable dates as soon as they are available. I clicked on Sept 6 as it was available but it said there was a problem with my date selection. I refreshed and it was gone. All this at 8:00 and 30 seconds.


It is real for sure, but who drops $200 on a November 26th Yampa permit?? Available dates are exactly the same on Gates and Yampa so this is smelling a lot like software fuckery.


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## RabbitEars (Mar 12, 2021)

DidNotWinLottery said:


> There were a TON of great dates that popped, but I missed them all. I grabbed a 3/29 Yampa, but guessing that is too early to have any real chance?


We had a 3/29 launch last year. Ice came off a week prior and had just enough flow for our small raft. I imagine the season will be like last year where the Yampa peaked mid April. I live in steamboat and we have much less snow this year than last year.


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## Nanko (Oct 20, 2020)

DidNotWinLottery said:


> There were a TON of great dates that popped, but I missed them all. I grabbed a 3/29 Yampa, but guessing that is too early to have any real chance?


i could be wrong but I think that’s 1 permit monument-wide and the NPS will let you switch it to Lodore if the Yampa isn’t ready for you.


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## Jim Bob (May 19, 2020)

Refresh, refresh, refresh, go go go, in cart, book, shit…I wasn’t fast enough this year either.


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## tBatt (May 18, 2020)

RabbitEars said:


> I imagine the season will be like last year where the Yampa peaked mid April. I live in steamboat and we have much less snow this year than last year.


Huh? Yampa peaked 5/24 last year.


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## Easy Tiger (Jun 22, 2016)

Nanko said:


> i could be wrong but I think that’s 1 permit monument-wide and the NPS will let you switch it to Lodore if the Yampa isn’t ready for you.


Is this true during high season as well? We have a July launch on the Yampa this year but given how the snowpack is looking there may not be enough flow. Switching to Gates would be a nice option


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## Riverwild (Jun 19, 2015)

Easy Tiger said:


> Is this true during high season as well? We have a July launch on the Yampa this year but given how the snowpack is looking there may not be enough flow. Switching to Gates would be a nice option


No you cannot switch rivers if the Yampa doesn't work out for you. Its hilarious that people think a September Yampa is a thing, it's not. The season is over by early July for the most part.


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## theusualsuspect (Apr 11, 2014)

Easy Tiger said:


> Is this true during high season as well? We have a July launch on the Yampa this year but given how the snowpack is looking there may not be enough flow. Switching to Gates would be a nice option


No. 

During High Use Season only 300 permits for launches are issued. 

May 9 – May 18: two permits issued per day 
May 19 – July 9: three permits issued per day not to exceed two launches per river 
July 10 – September 9: two permits issued per day 
During Low Use Season only one permit is issued per day for either the Green or Yampa rivers.

I did a November Lodore this year and it was 65 degrees and gorgeous the entire time. Totally lucked out.


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## Nanko (Oct 20, 2020)

Easy Tiger said:


> Is this true during high season as well? We have a July launch on the Yampa this year but given how the snowpack is looking there may not be enough flow. Switching to Gates would be a nice option


Sheepeater explained it to me here









Help me understand Dino permits.


There are 2 high use permits/ day July 11-Sept 10. These end up as Lodore permits for obvious reasons. Here’s my confusion: Why do I see August Yampa permit cancellations on rec.gov from time to time? They are only available for the Yampa not Lodore. What’s up? I’m baffled.




www.mountainbuzz.com


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

jsheglund said:


> My MacBook crashed when I hit refresh at 7:59:59am and still won’t turn on. I was quick on my phone but only stuff left was in Nov. I want to be warm on a trip someday.


A word of advice. Linux Mint OS will run on your apple, it's 10 steps above the MacOS and doesn't have near the issues that the MacOS does.. I abandoned all the MS crapola months ago, and never looked back, no regrets at all. You can download a live image to a USB stick, and run it that way to see what it is before installing it. Worth a look.


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## jsheglund (Feb 20, 2021)

MNichols said:


> A word of advice. Linux Mint OS will run on your apple, it's 10 steps above the MacOS and doesn't have near the issues that the MacOS does.. I abandoned all the MS crapola months ago, and never looked back, no regrets at all. You can download a live image to a USB stick, and run it that way to see what it is before installing it. Worth a look.


I will give that look, thanks!


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

shortbus said:


> I read somewhere that people have built algorithms to snatch up desirable dates as soon as they are available. I clicked on Sept 6 as it was available but it said there was a problem with my date selection. I refreshed and it was gone. All this at 8:00 and 30 seconds.


I hadn't heard that, but it's completely possible, and doable. Would be little more than a simple batch file executing commands in a if/then scenerio. Automation these days is forefront in coding, and if there's something to be exploited for personal gain, well that's the human way..


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## Electric-Mayhem (Jan 19, 2004)

I don't know if I would call it an Algorithm as much as a script file that just "scrapes" rec dot suck for open dates and notifies you when they become available. Rec uses basic identifier numbers, so you just set the script to run and check the permits/campsites constantly and when it finds one available it lets you know. 

I know enough about computers to know HOW it works, but not enough of a coder to actually make it work. Ideally you'd get the script to check for open dates and then "click" on it thus setting off the 15 minute reservation period they give you to complete the booking and then send out an alert.

Definitely a moral quandary that I tend to land on wanting to do it the old fashioned "fair" way that anyone can do...at least anyone with access to the internet.


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## Nanko (Oct 20, 2020)

Electric-Mayhem said:


> I don't know if I would call it an Algorithm as much as a script file that just "scrapes" rec dot suck for open dates and notifies you when they become available. Rec uses basic identifier numbers, so you just set the script to run and check the permits/campsites constantly and when it finds one available it lets you know.
> 
> I know enough about computers to know HOW it works, but not enough of a coder to actually make it work. Ideally you'd get the script to check for open dates and then "click" on it thus setting off the 15 minute reservation period they give you to complete the booking and then send out an alert.
> 
> Definitely a moral quandary that I tend to land on wanting to do it the old fashioned "fair" way that anyone can do...at least anyone with access to the internet.


Bots, or whatever the right term is, are rampant for Yosemite campsites. Don’t see why this wouldn’t be the same for rivers unless we have a higher collective ethical sense than car campers. How Tech Decides Who Gets to Go Camping

I personally wouldn’t be able to enjoy a trip gained like this but I can understand the temptation. I barely can use MB but by all accounts it would be easy for someone with rudimentary tech skill to create a permit scanner. I’ve reached out to Rec.gov a couple times about any efforts to prevent this. Their responses have been inadequate to say the least.


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## sarahkonamojo (May 20, 2004)

*


https://www.reddit.com/r/camping/comments/aldq8k
*


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## jsheglund (Feb 20, 2021)

sarahkonamojo said:


> *
> 
> 
> https://www.reddit.com/r/camping/comments/aldq8k
> *


Damn. I’m truly disheartened... Fuck!


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## IDriverRunner (Aug 18, 2015)

I know a decent amount about a scripts, and had there been one in place, there would be a 0% chance of me getting the permit I did yesterday. I’m good, but I’m not that good. Haha


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## Rockgizmo (May 21, 2009)

Before the ClickFest on the 6th, only a few permits were available the first few days of March. After the Fest… look at all the days that will be unused since they were thrown back. Since most people don’t have time to put trips together that quickly.


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## cnalder (Jul 7, 2016)

IDriverRunner said:


> I know a decent amount about a scripts, and had there been one in place, there would be a 0% chance of me getting the permit I did yesterday. I’m good, but I’m not that good. Haha


Which did you pick up?


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

Any time you have anything that can be gamed, someone will try to game it. To the detriment of others. 

Wonder how we got the wonderful "Capcha" system that infuriates so many? Yep, this situation exactly. It may not totally stop it, but it sure does slow it down. In this case, the private contractor that runs wreck.gov apparently could care less that it's happening, as they are raking in the money as fast as they can. 

The government apparently doesn't realize there's a problem, or if they do, and if recent actions on other fronts are any representation, if we don't think about it, it'll go away.. 

What's really disturbing is this isn't just happening to river use permits, it's system wide, any federal land that's in the system is being gamed apparently.


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## cain (Dec 28, 2011)

Wrecked.gov is so f**ked up that if you booked a Ruby Horsetheif permit 60 days out and then get your group together it won't let you modify your group number to add people only reduce your group size. No wonder there are so many empty camps when you float it that showed taken on Wrecked.gov's website. The whole operation of Wrecked.gov is a joke.


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## IDriverRunner (Aug 18, 2015)

cnalder said:


> Which did you pick up?


June 29th
It’s perfect timing for me this summer. I’m still over the moon excited about this.


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

IDriverRunner said:


> June 29th
> It’s perfect timing for me this summer. I’m still over the moon excited about this.


Perfect date, June and October are my favorite times of year.


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## Kirby (Aug 14, 2013)

Grandie said:


> No, but you should be able to look at the calendar and see what is available...


I don't think you've ever been able to see the permits available before 8am.


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## Rockgizmo (May 21, 2009)

Kirby said:


> I don't think you've ever been able to see the permits available before 8am.


One of the 1st years the permit system went to rec.gov, there was a short period where you could see the permits coming up for grabs. It seemed liked a glitch in the coding. Everything popped up and then they all disappeared, before popping up for grabs. I haven't seen it happen since then.

On another topic, I would like to see the release more random over a window of time. rather than all at once. That's just my own opinion.


Kirby said:


> I don't think you've ever been able to see the permits available before 8am.


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## Kirby (Aug 14, 2013)

On another topic, I would like to see the release more random over a window of time. rather than all at once. That's just my own opinion.
[/QUOTE]

I've had luck the past three years with the 8am shitshow.. so I kind of like it. But I get what you're saying about the random pop up dates, that's how I got a July Lodore four years ago, just randomly checked the site and boom one available. Which was hot as balls and I'll leave July alone for others to enjoy.


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## jsheglund (Feb 20, 2021)

Seems like an at random release really hands it over to those gaming the system by having software alert them while I’m on the shitter looking at old playboys. At least for now I know to be there at 8am… I’ve scored a few cancellations by randomly checking in too though so who knows.


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## Nanko (Oct 20, 2020)

jsheglund said:


> Seems like an at random release really hands it over to those gaming the system by having software alert them while I’m on the shitter looking at old playboys. At least for now I know to be there at 8am… I’ve scored a few cancellations by randomly checking in too though so who knows.


I think this is right. Where the bots really have their power is the scouring for random release. I don’t know if they can click faster than me (probably) but they can for sure do a better job at scanning all right every night. That said, I’ve done pretty well with random release and not so much on the mass 8am thing.


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## paulster (May 27, 2011)

DidNotWinLottery said:


> There were a TON of great dates that popped, but I missed them all. I grabbed a 3/29 Yampa, but guessing that is too early to have any real chance?


I did a Mar 31 Yampa a few years ago and it was great. Cold but we had the place to ourselves and enjoyed a big fire morning and evening


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## zercon (Aug 30, 2006)

I did notice that all the March and November openings are available for the same dates on both Lodore and Yampa. There is something wrong with their calendar, they can't be the exact dates, and no one would paying for the Yampa in November.


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## SheepEater (Jul 9, 2020)

There isn't anything wrong with the calendar. One permit per day is available for either the Yampa or the Green during the low-use season. If a launch date is booked for the Green, it will also be unavailable on the Yampa, and vice versa.


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## Easy Tiger (Jun 22, 2016)

When do they release cancellations at this point? Is it random throughout the day or at 8:00am each morning?


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## DidNotWinLottery (Mar 6, 2018)

They seem to be very random. 8:00AM is just the unclaimed permits after the lottery. So, if you live in Moms basement but miraculously love river rafting you can sit there hitting refresh all day. For the rest of us working stiffs with lives.....sigh. However, I never win the click war at 8:00AM but can usually find a random cancellation closer to season by checking 2-3 times a day, every day for all the rivers.


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## Rafter Larry (Aug 10, 2021)

Electric-Mayhem said:


> Managed to snag a low use permit in October.... I guess I got lucky on my timing.


Unfortunately there will be no water at that time. You might be able to do it in an IK and paddle,drag, and walk your way down. I would suggest an early trip. There should be runnable water at the end of the month Where there are open spots. I once did a trip April 12 and I had 8000 CFS . Just bring warm gear and be prepared for a potential storm. I wish you good luck.


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## River Schmee (Jul 24, 2020)

erschwenk said:


> How is it in November? I see a few open dates.


many years back i did a 10/31 put it. snagged up on rocks often but the turning cottonwoods made it all worthwhile. you'l have VERY short daylight and LONG cold nights. drinking water froze on us. The day after the takeout, we drove home in a snowstorm. 17".


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## Electric-Mayhem (Jan 19, 2004)

Rafter Larry said:


> Unfortunately there will be no water at that time. You might be able to do it in an IK and paddle,drag, and walk your way down. I would suggest an early trip. There should be runnable water at the end of the month Where there are open spots. I once did a trip April 12 and I had 8000 CFS . Just bring warm gear and be prepared for a potential storm. I wish you good luck.


I'm not too worried about there being water in Lodore in October....I've run a lot of trips that time of year. Thanks though.


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## FloatMaBoat (Jul 8, 2021)

Electric-Mayhem said:


> I'm not too worried about there being water in Lodore in October....I've run a lot of trips that time of year. Thanks though.


Agreed. That's the only thing good about the Damn; guaranteed flow. Might only be 1500 cfs but you can get down the river without too much trouble.


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## tBatt (May 18, 2020)

Deso had a TON of openings, which all came and went in 45 seconds.


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

tBatt said:


> Deso had a TON of openings, which all came and went in 45 seconds.


Wonder if that had anything to do with the new cancellation policy..


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## Easy Tiger (Jun 22, 2016)

That was really quick for Deso Grey! Thought I had a few mid-June dates but I could never get them in my cart. Ended up with July 29… hot and buggy!


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## caverdan (Aug 27, 2004)

I scored a September date.......after bug season.


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## Pinchecharlie (Jul 27, 2017)

Awsome!! I got jack doodley cause I didn't even know it was today! More karma for being a dickheqd all these years!!


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## jsheglund (Feb 20, 2021)

i half assed tried to score one while driving, had a sept 27 trip make it into my cart but i forgot to log in first. by the time i logged in it was gone. oh well, i already had a late april deso booked so no need to be greedy!


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