# Grand Canyon Rigging for a 15' in Sept..



## Bongo (Sep 10, 2014)

Running a 15' NRS in early Sept on the Grand (1st time and longest raft trip to date for me) with no passengers and thinking about rigging options with weight and volume issues in mind. WE are are a party of 16 with 9 boats (mostly 14's, a 16', and an 18')...out for 23 days....trying to imagine the amount of food, bags, and crap but can't see it all yet.

I am using an NRS frame with 3 bays (cooler, dry box x2) plus cock pit. 

1. It seems like I would want a lot of weight up front for ballast in light of no passengers. What are others' thoughts on loading the boat for bigger water and stability versus being lighter and more maneuverable especially with this river in mind?

2. Ever used extra water jugs to fill and empty depending on the type of rapids being run that day?

3. I do not have boxes competing for space with me in the cockpit. I am thinking about pros/cons of space for me versus space for crap. Thoughts?

4. Anyone have an awesome crap holder right in front of them for very easy day access while you are rowing -- like a mesh dish rack that closes and straps in well...for sunscreen, maps etc...

5. What is your best advice for back country margaritas on day 20 and does the river really cool your beer well enough?

Cheers and thanks community! - Bongo


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## jmacn (Nov 20, 2010)

One could write a small book detailing all the tricks of the perfect GC oar rig. I say just keep a balanced load, push downstream, and if you have plenty of room in the footwell keep an extra 20 mil or two for the boatman's closet. Whiskey, bring extra whiskey...


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## mtgreenheads (Jul 15, 2011)

Great organizer for exactly what you are describing, made by awesome folks in Flagstaff.

Junk Drawer with Zipper Pocket, Wet Dreams River Supply


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## 90Duck (Nov 19, 2012)

Here is my 14' rigged for flip at the scout for Hance. There is a 5 gallon camelbak water bladder backpack in the very front, a Yeti 120 cooler strapped into the footwell below the small yellow pad, a kitchen box under the larger yellow paco, NRS Big Sky 146 under the blue paco (with a soft-sided NRS cooler as a "trunk" to put helmets and such in on top); the cockpit has a Canyon 22 cooler as a day cooler on one side (under the silver foil), and a 5 gallon Scepter water jug on the other, another drybox I sit on, then the Pacific River Bag full of all the rest. My wife rode along on the paco lounge up front. A folding Bimini top is that thing across the bow.

You will end up using every available space for something. Check the raft porn thread for a picture of all the boats in our group from above and mine with the convertible top up for shade.

I got a Captain's Quiver from Cascade River Gear as a Father's day present just before leaving for the trip. It works great for containing and providing quick access to miscellaneous stuff that can get wet.

Captains Quiver Mesh Bag | Cascade River Gear

Have fun on your trip.


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## OCFry (Jul 29, 2015)

Balance your boat, I would not run extra weight. NO DRAG BAGS! The eddies in the Grand Canyon are heinous. I kept my boat aired up on the hard side, kept her balanced front to rear, side to side, and hung NOTHING out of the boat into the water. 

The rapids are NOT the hard part of the Grand Canyon! It's the damned eddies after each one.


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## 90Duck (Nov 19, 2012)

OCFry said:


> Balance your boat, I would not run extra weight. NO DRAG BAGS! The eddies in the Grand Canyon are heinous. I kept my boat aired up on the hard side, kept her balanced front to rear, side to side, and hung NOTHING out of the boat into the water.
> 
> The rapids are NOT the hard part of the Grand Canyon! It's the damned eddies after each one.


+1 on this. I quit dragging on the river after the first day and just dropped it over the side while in camp. This was after losing several perfectly good beers to breakage (lesson: always remove the rigid six-pack holder) that ended up leaving me short on beer and a bit grumpy by day 15.

The water is plenty cold enough for beer the first week or so, but then warms up enough to be just adequate towards the end. The solution for cocktail ice late in the trip is to ask the motor rigs if they have any extra. They will generally oblige since by the time you will need it they are nearly done with their week-long trip. They should still be running in Sept. We got 8 blocks of precious cocktail ice from motor rigs over our last 5 days. These were especially appreciated for G&Ts at that point since I'd run out of any beer due to drag bag breakage! 

Those swirling eddy lines are absolutely brutal.

Have fun!


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## buckmanriver (Apr 2, 2008)

+1 for balanced. 

I would also suggest going light. The heavier the boat the more energy it takes to row. And it you have 280 miles of eddies to row uphill out of.


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## restrac2000 (Mar 6, 2008)

When I rowed solo I had my gear on a platform in the front bay. I figured I had an extra 180+ lbs of my weight biasing the stern so it would help equalize the balance a bit.

A debated filling jugs for Lava but it's not gonna help. 100 lbs of static weight won't make a difference in the rapids of concern. Use your body dynamically and row aggressively.

I loved being solo in my boat for 15+ (wife hiked out St Phantom) days in Jan. Camp allowed me to be social while the boat allowed me to enjoy the solitude.

Have a great trip.


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## sleighr (Nov 14, 2011)

My fave ballast is a couple kegs... but that's in December 

Sent from my SM-G930V using Mountain Buzz mobile app


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## mattman (Jan 30, 2015)

Ya man, don't drag anything while running, saw my friends have a good entry turn into a long surf this spring, cause of a drag bag. Only have run higher water Cat so far, not grand, but the more I boat, the less I believe in extra weight being good.
2. Skip the extra water jugs unless you need them
3. I really like having a rocket box on each side of me, easy access, plus if you run a floor, side tables.
5. Ice picks with a wood board are awesome for breaking block ice, just don't perforate yourself in the middle of nowhere!!!

Have fun!


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## climbdenali (Apr 2, 2006)

1. Balanced and as low as possible. Avoid big gear piles. Lighter is more maneuverable, and better in my opinion.

2. I have used filled jugs before. I wouldn't again. You have enough weight anyway, and again, lighter is more maneuverable.

3. You'll put stuff in the cockpit anyway- might as well have something to hold it. I've used rectangle milk crates, either side of my feet, with a peli 1500 as a lid. Could easily fashion a different lid.


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## peakone (Apr 5, 2008)

14' boat. 3 square water jugs in front hatch, cooler, 2 captain drop bags, 5 ammo cans under seat, two propane bombs under back hatch. low profile, oars in center.


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## climbdenali (Apr 2, 2006)

Nice lookin' rig! 

Does anything else go on the back deck where all those straps are?


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## Bongo (Sep 10, 2014)

Thanks everyone ! -- good intell.. I will plan on keeping it light, filling the cockpit more and getting a captain's bag..and an ice pick! More answers welcome and appreciated! -- Bongo!!


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## peakone (Apr 5, 2008)

climbdenali said:


> Nice lookin' rig!
> 
> Does anything else go on the back deck where all those straps are?


Usually strap on paco doubled over, then drybags, chairs and soft stuff behind me on the decks. Then drop a large Bills bag in the center, and sleep on paco pads side by side. It works pretty good. Had a pretty cool queen size roll up foam thing that also worked great one trip.


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## 90Duck (Nov 19, 2012)

Bongo said:


> Thanks everyone ! -- good intell.. I will plan on keeping it light, filling the cockpit more and getting a captain's bag..and an ice pick! More answers welcome and appreciated! -- Bongo!!


I think "light boat" and "Grand Canyon" is a bit of an oxymoron. There is just a lot of stuff to carry for that length of trip. Maneuverability isn't priority #1 down there given the nature of the rapids, but some low-slung ballast certainly doesn't hurt things a bit when you miss your line and fail to get T'd up properly:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyI9X9eEHAY

Boat sleeping is the best. Here is our waterbed all set up to go:


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## Jim S (May 26, 2015)

Just got back from a run down the Grand. Rowed a heavy 18'. I think weight is good -- hole punching is required and maneuverability is secondary -- just look ahead and hit your line. As for eddies, look where you want to end up before entering the rapid and line up accordingly...some of the challenge of hitting the current after a rapid can be minimized by entering at the right place in the wave train...with that said, you'll still fight to stay in it, or even find it, at times. I ran a drag bag most of the way since cold beer seemed mandatory when drinking water became a chore -- did pull the bag in on big/shallow runs.


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## cschmidt1023 (Jan 27, 2015)

I would disagree that you "have to" run any holes. I got invited last minute as a bow fairy in a 13.5 ft raft and ended up rowing a 16 ft cataract after an injury in Crystal. Luckily that meant I got to skip all of the work/planning and just enjoy the trip!

Maneuverability is still important. All of our small boats were fine, our only flips were the heavier 16 ft "gear pigs".


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## tteton (May 16, 2014)

*All I got is WOW*

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyI9X9eEHAY



Land of the Giants sideways and barely trying to do a thing about it....WOW!
Nice clip!


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## 90Duck (Nov 19, 2012)

Hardly doing anything? I was actually very busy praying for our lives! 

I agree it seems like an eternity in the slo-mo between coming to the realization that I'd screwed the pooch and when I start doing anything again after we exited upright. I was so surprised to not be swimming that it took me a beat to come to my senses and get busy again.

By way of monday-morning quarterbacking, if you watch the full-speed version of the whole run the mistake was made in turning the boat to T-up too early into waves that were really inconsequential in comparison. In doing that I lost all of the right to left momentum I had worked to build up and just couldn't get it back when I turned it sideways again. Then, a bit of panic set in...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-uczsx9A9aQ

Not my finest moment on the oars, but it does make for an entertaining watch!


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## Schutzie (Feb 5, 2013)

Schutzie is jealous!
Kay.
First, don't over think stuff. You will, but stop it. Yes, its the Grand Canyon. Yes, it's your longest trip. Yes, it's going to be awesome. Yes, it can be scary. and yes you want to do it right. You most probably will get it right anyway, but overthinking everything won't change the outcome.

If you've done multi day before, you already know the basics of how to do this. You do not need to alter much. 

You are going to be amazed at the sheer volume of ............. stuff you have to carry. Take beer. We planned a 6 pack a person a day for a 15 day trip; there were 8 of us. That works out to 30 cases of beer. 30! And we ran out about day 11. Liquor is more compact but you really don't want anything in glass. Also, remember that a Gin and Tonic is really good, but by about day 12 you'll be wondering what else you could mix in there for some variety.
On both of my Grand trips I over packed clothes, and still smelled like a goat when we got to Las Vegas. Really think about what you need and want. Fashion should not be a focus below Lees Ferry. Comfort and utility should be.

You will find that creature comforts become more important; a soft place to lay your weary head; a comfortable place to sit. Dry shoes. Plan accordingly.

Plan your meals and consumables carefully; do not over pack, but do not skimp either. If your menu says 15 slices of bread for french toast, you take 15 slices; not 14, not 16.

Do not let Lava (or any of the big rapids) psyche you out. They will, but stop it anyway. The thing is, the Grand is all about BIG. Big rapids, big water, big holes, big rocks, but your itsy bitsy boat will have lots of room to avoid the really monster stuff, just pay attention to your lines, and remember that the currents can be really strong.

In Schutzie's opinion any ballast you could load on your boat will not make one bit of difference if you miss the line in Crystal or Lava. And, if your boat is heavier than you normally have it, you have a greater chance of missing the line anyway.

Just keep telling yourself; a lot of people have been here before me, and some of them weren't as good as me, and they made it, so I know I can as well.

Of course, a few of them didn't make it because the river Gods have a sense of humor.

Schutzie is truly jealous. You don't so much run the Grand Canyon as get swallowed up by it, and spit out the other end as a different person.

A grand trip is kind of like getting married; no matter how well or how long you plan, no matter how much you spend, something will not go as intended. But, it's what didn't go as planned that makes for the best memories. Take lots of pictures, TAKE AND KEEP A JOURNAL. If you can, get a copy of Edward Abby's "The Monkey Wrench Gang" and take it with you for reading. 

And one other thing; you will discover that a Big Mac tastes much better at Pearce Ferry than it does at Lees Ferry. 

Enjoy!


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## whip (Oct 23, 2003)

All you need to know: " Everyday is rig to flip day in the Grand Canyon!"


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## dgoods (Jul 15, 2013)

Lots of great tips on this thread. 

Clothing- as said already, bring a minimal blend of comfort and tech cloths: comfy camp clothes, good rain gear, 1 pair of river footwear plus a back up pair, small day-pack for hikes.
*I like using small different colored stuff sacks in my dry bag to stay organized and know where stuff is.

Rig-wise- low and tight. Try to rig so that your heaviest stuff is down low and fairly centered-front to back for faster pivoting with a bit bow heavy for punching. 

For strapping, rig so that if Godzilla picked up your boat and shook it around violently up-side-down, nothing would move. For stuff like heavy dry boxes and coolers I like to use 2 straps over the tops and 2 off the sides. Also, think about at camp are you going to have to completely un-rig your boat to get at stuff in the front and back- or just be able to de-rig one end of the boat and minimize your work. 
*Roller-cam straps are nice and bomber. 
*Use beefy straps for attaching your frame to boat-either wide poly straps or roller-cam nylon straps. 

Sleep system: I love sleeping on my boat in the Grand. It's way cooler than on shore and I just love my boat. A roll-a-cot w/a paco on it is comfy, but gets old setting up every day. Having a nice long deck to throw a paco on works well. On past trips I've brought tents for rain, but a Black Diamond mega-mid works good for shore and on-boat shelter-unless the wind is cranking. 

Misc...For a couple side hikes like mat-cat and havazoo it's nice to have some climbing chocks to set tie-up anchors in the rocks. Have a good shade system. I like to bring a weed spraying mister to cool off on long days - cost about $10 and are worth it IMO. Good water-proof camera with back-up batteries and memory card. 


Grand trips are awesome-especially in the fall. Keep your boat tight with minimal foot entrapment potential. Take your time, hike a lot, tee up for the big stuff, run the glory line at Hermit-even if boats in front of you flip, leave your watch at home, get into river mode!


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## BoscoBoater (Jul 11, 2006)

I like this version the best. The audio, combined with the short arm perspective, makes it seem like some random family vacation post from Jabba da Hutt. 

You can hear Jabba saying' "sweet dude! beer me!"..... or some shit like that. I don't know, I'm not really that fluent Huttese as of yet.Those rolling r's just kill me.






90Duck said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyI9X9eEHAY


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## trevko (Jul 7, 2008)

dgoods said:


> Lots of great tips on this thread.
> 
> For strapping, rig so that if Godzilla picked up your boat and shook it around violently up-side-down, nothing would move.


Because if you go into the Ledge Hole this is what is happening! I have seen some wicked carnage from there. On one trip I had someone in my group get lost at the top and went into the hole. The frame was torn off the raft, ripping webbing and tearing off D rings. Only thing we lost was our backboard table. 

I was running sweep - funnest damn thing to see coming up the tail waves and seeing the passenger trying to row the boat-less frame (the ammo cans and dry boxes floated it). Had to count boats 4-5 times until I figured out the frame was detached.....

But like Shutzie says, don't let it psyche you out.


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## GorgeWags (Aug 1, 2016)

*Lucky You*

I've done the Canyon 11 times in everything from a kayak to a 18' gearboat to a 16' Dory, but mostly in my 15' raft. There are a lot of good tips here, and I would second a few--you certainly don't need extra ballast, just distribute what you have so that you have an even trim. Maneuverability is good in a 15' boat. I believe it's much more important to square up to what's coming than to try and get out of the way. A fair sized sidebox in critical to my thinking, something that is very easy to get stuff out of quickly. It's still very hot in Sept. and you won't want a splash top or dry top 98% of the time, but the water is cold and the rapids plenty splashy, so I always keep a splash top in my left sidebox so I can whip it on and off quickly. I also wear Chaco's because they won't come off in a swim, unlike Velcro'd sandals. Stay in the flow and don't sneak, you may never get the chance to run the meat again. My favorite trip launched Sept 23rd--23 days, 286 miles solo in my 15' Sotar, I got it on 6 days notice when the hardware broke down for the fall make-up lottery....


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