# Kayaker needs Raft Advice



## Roy (Oct 30, 2003)

My advice would be to get a few more folks involved and make it a paddle raft trip. Not nearly as much skill involved in piloting a paddle boat. Either that or get out there a lot in the next couple weeks to get some river miles under your belt.

Back when I was young and dumb, myself and another beginner/intermediate kayaker with some experience in Brown's, but zero experience piloting rafts between the two of us rented a couple boats and paddles and took about a ten neophytes down Brown's at reasonably high water and it went OK. Of course, your mileage may vary...


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## UserName (Sep 7, 2007)

Can't agree that paddle boat is easier... Got to learn how to get commands out of your head and into words, in time for response, etc... Advise, set up way earlier than in kayak, make you angles more exaggerated than in kayak, Pulling away from things is much stronger than pushing, square up to big waves, If you're gonna hit a rock don't hit it sideways and/or make it so you roll off of it. Keep the black side down (assumes bottom is black...)


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## foy (Aug 4, 2004)

Hey, I went from raft guide to kayak. Believe me it is much easier to raft than kayak. Just go for it, you will make it, it won't look pretty but you'll have a great time. There will be a lot of people there to assist if need be. The nice thing is you have a lot of class II water before you get to the canyon. Don't go sideways in the rapids, hit it straight on, even the rocks. That is the nice thing about a raft, you can plow through or bounce off about any thing you hit, just hit it straight on.

Have Fun!


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## Dave Frank (Oct 14, 2003)

Josh you'll be fine in Brown's. Just 'cause roy had my raft pinned within minutes of taking the helm, he assumes it must be difficult.


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## De la Boot (Apr 21, 2004)

Thanks Dave. Here's some timely trivia, my very first multi-day kayak trip was a Frank-Especiale 3 day Raft assist down Delores back in 2000. The snaggler! Good times. Glad to finally have a raft myself and can't wait to get on Westwater and the other classics. Hope to see you on the water sometime.


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## benjordan1985 (Apr 14, 2008)

*Also have raft and Never-evers*

Would love to meet up with you over memorial day as we will be a group of kayak supported rafters. The goal is to bribe one of my raft guide friends into taking us down Numbers Sat., let several of us kayakers learn enough about rafting to get down Fractions and do Brown's Sun. Mon. See you in BV. 615-631-2354. 
Thanks,
Ben


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## Roy (Oct 30, 2003)

Dave Frank said:


> Just 'cause roy had my raft pinned within minutes of taking the helm, he assumes it must be difficult.


Seems like a reasonable assumption...:roll:


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## GoodTimes (Mar 9, 2006)

You know the lines, you'll be fine. BIGGEST thing to remember when getting on the oars compared to your kayaking experience is timing. You can never set up too early in a raft. Having said that, it's easy to "over-shoot" your line too. Just remember they're big ole, momentum gaining, crafts.....i.e. you may think you have to throw in a couple more strokes and before you know it you'll be past your intended line.

I also don't think a paddle raft gig would be easier for a raft newb. Actually a little harder IMHO. Atleast on the oars you're controlling the power.....you're at the crews mercy (mostly) in a paddle boat.....and it'll be harder to time the moves.

I went from oars as a kid to commercial paddle raft gig to kayaking.....and now do them all. I've taught a few kayaking friends over the years on the oars and I can tell you the biggest adjustment for them has always been the timing and flipping your mentality a little bit. That is......in a kayak you usually point your bow in the direction you want to go and paddle like crazy. On the oars your strongest stroke is going to be pulling away.


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## Snowhere (Feb 21, 2008)

benjordan1985 said:


> Would love to meet up with you over memorial day as we will be a group of kayak supported rafters. The goal is to bribe one of my raft guide friends into taking us down Numbers Sat., let several of us kayakers learn enough about rafting to get down Fractions and do Brown's Sun. Mon. See you in BV. 615-631-2354.
> Thanks,
> Ben


I would not suggest running numbers as newbe rafters this coming weekend. I R2 it Friday and Sunday and it was rowdy to say the least. It was in the 1800-2000cfs range and will spank any weak paddle crew. I expect it to be closer to 3G this weekend with all the hot weather we are going to get. It will be closed to commercial boaters in about 200cfs more then what is flowing today. It is a complete hoot at high water, but no place to make ANY mistakes or have any one swimming. 

Fractions/Frog Rock is much easier. I rowed it last year at 4G with out any problem. Browns is easy at high water too. Hit either of these two and see how you do before even thinking about jumping in Numbers at high water.


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## nicmayer (May 19, 2007)

Remember that rafts function much different than I kayak, which I am sure you know. As mentioned in an earlier thread you can not make last min adjustments in a raft like you can in a kayak. Keep you oars in the water when possible, this way you can make quick minor adjustments when needed. Remember: with oares you back stroke is your strongest stroke. 

Also, your lines in a kayak are often different than you lines in a raft. You can't sneak that big ole boat in places you can get your kayak. 

Rocks are often you bigest challenge in Brown's because with oras and a raft you are so wide. At the current flows a lot of the rocks are covered. Canyon Door and Pinball are read and run, pretty straight forward. Zume in a oar frame just requires a slight rightward movement through the rapid to avoid the rock/hole that comes in 2/3 you way through it. Fortunately in a raft the water wants to move you that way with with the correct approach. You said you know your line so Widow Maker and Rafter ripper are straighforward too. I have seen Raft Ripper give many an inflatable a rough time cuz the rock is harder to spot at 2k. 

If you are up for a good challenge take you at Stone brindge but I recommend scoutting Sidels. The left to right move especially with paddle assist should be no problem. Twin Falls below that is an awesome wave train that really gives newbies a ride. 

Enjoy. I will be out there this weekend too so when you see two girls in a shredder wave to us.

oh and one last thought, although we all know there will be a ton of people out there on Brown's this weekend do not rely on others to get you out of a jam. Give your newbies a good safety speach, teach them how to use the safety gear, express the importance of self rescue and more importantly... stay in the boat!


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## BarryDingle (Mar 13, 2008)

nicmayer said:


> Give your newbies a good safety speach, teach them how to use the safety gear


This is so true,safety meetings are mandatory. And be familiar with that gear...Nudge nudge.

We've got room on the Poudre for two girls in a shredder.....


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## nicmayer (May 19, 2007)

We've got room on the Poudre for two girls in a shredder.....[/quote]


When? I do love the Poudre


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## caverdan (Aug 27, 2004)

One thing that's saved me a time or two is..........spin to win.....go with the flow.....punch the holes. Oops....that was three.


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## UserName (Sep 7, 2007)

When in dobt go right


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## TakemetotheRiver (Oct 4, 2007)

UserName said:


> When in dobt go right


I thought it was, when in doubt, spin about.


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