# Westwater Dog Alert!



## mrbrejcha

This is true.


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## StyleChief

*Westwater rangers are not your friends*

No need to apologize to the Westwater rangers. Those guys are NOT very friendly to begin with. Their attitudes tend to breed hostility, not foster cooperation. I used to live in Grand Junction and was there all the time. They seem to take great joy in harrassing folks that even have all of their sh-t together and have followed the rules. It is ridiculous that they claim you can't have dogs at Cisco. If we want to risk our pets, that's our business isn't it?


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## yukonjack

Hey I've had problems with the rangers also (To loud, wrong pfd) but these guys are just doing their job and I have found if you treat them like you would want to be treated they are fair. They are smart guys and see a lot of things people try to get away with and when you are a smart ass to them they know. As for your dog they have a lot of problems with them and I hope people don't keep messing it up so were not aloud to bring them down the river anymore. That is there next step no dogs aloud on westwater or at the put inor take out. This is would be a shame because some people think they know better than what the rules are. If you can't take you dog with you he/she should not be there.


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## PhilBob

sorry for posting my opinion.


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## jacksplasticraft

*Phil Bob dont tell others what is right for them!!!!!*

Phil Bob I agree with the rangers decision but to tell dog owners not to take their pets on the river the only reply I have for you is"SHUT THE FUCK UP"I am a dog owner who cleans up after my dog every where we go.Its people like you who are the reason why we have such screwed up laws,just take care of yourself and stay out of other peoples bussiness.P.S. You Suck stay in N.M.


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## Guest

Here's the thing... most people are idiots. And dogs unfortunately being the loving creatures they are go along with their idiot owners. 

You can't make a single rule for everything. Key point here. Yes, some people are great, but as we've all been hearing since the first grade... the jackasses always ruin it for the good kids. 

If people have good dogs and are smart owners and know how their dog reacts in certain situations (ie, on the river) then it's fine to bring fido, or woofie or whatever, BUT I hate seeing Big Billy Bob and his missing brain bring "Comando" on the river when the f**%^&ing dog hates it and is scared shitless and I have to paddle by looking at his tired eyes while he tries to swim to my boat because he's about to drown. No, that's not my idea of a fun day on the river. 

It makes me sick. And since we can't make a law called "the if you're a dumb ass don't bring your dog, but if you're responsible and your dog wants to be there" river law, maybe it is best to not have dogs.

And jackwackcraft... that's awesome that you're a gold star dog owner and all, but can you honestly say that you've never seen some moron doing stupid stuff with their dog? How about the guys/girls in the raft that are so busy opening another beer they forget that Foo-Foo is trying to scratch her way up the raft or the dog tied at the put in who's patiently waiting for dumb and dumber to return and get him out of the burning sun? That's right. So if you were smart, you'd reread your post, shut your pie hole and then apologize to philbob, because while I'm sure your point was good when you thougt about, you sound like you're ten... "you suck..." blah blah.

I love taking my dogs places. I don't take them on the river because I'm kayaking and they don't like it. Not every dog likes the river. Get over it, and leave your dog at home if that's how it is.

It sucks that people don't get it. But they often DON'T.


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## ryguy

PHIL BOB Why are you such a closed minded and selfish idiot?? When ever I am on reasonably safe class III/IV in a raft, I take my Labrador along. He is by far one of my best river pals, he never complains, doesnt drink any of the beer, and he is always happy to jump out and retrieve a stray cooozy! (easy on the Drunk Rafter comments, I kayak 98% of the time) He is also my only boating partner that I can spoon with in my tent!

I have two dogs, one likes the river and the other does not. So as a responsible guy, I only take the one who does, and he always has his PFD on. Notice I PFD, not Life vest, I know there is a risk involved. There is a risk for myself as well. This is why we all love the sport. 

There are a ton of people on MB that have had to pull bodies from the river. Why not outlaw rafting all together?? Hell, most boaters smell worse than dog shit. 

I know that some people really screw it up for others, but please realize that there are people out there who really cherish their right to be on the river with their dog. 


I feel that you should give up river sports, hiking/ Camping as well. Stick to the golf course, you will never have dog problems there.


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## PhilBob

sorry for posting my opinion.


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## jacksplasticraft

*Phil Bob,Vile Gurl*

After rereading your post I think you should join PETA they are one of the top terrorist groups actively tracked by our FBI.Sounds like you might fit in.Breaking in to other peoples cars is illegal.Phil Bob you seem to condone this course of action.Im sure you all are better than everyone else and should take matters into your owne hands at any time you see fit.
Like I said I agree with the rangers at West water (Alvin).Do you want to tell me that when I take my dog up Quandry to ski the south chutte it is animal crulity?She always has her beacon on and on the river she has a PFD.Just food for thought.I will defend my right to take my dog where I want when I want and there are some places that they dont belong but it sounds like you just want to push peoples buttons and be smug.So Be uptight and offended if you want but life is to short to not spend time in the wild with my friends and my dog.........


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## puffaluffagus

Alvin is an asshole.
and on another note
Some people don't have dogs cause they don't want to deal with them.
Why do you dog owners have to bring those beasts everywhere you go. I would love to go just once to a play spot and not have it feel like I'm visiting the kennel


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## jeffro

PhilBob said:


> dog owners lack of respect for other people


Thats a real inteligent overgeneralizing insult. It's like saying all peeps from Taos are pretentious uptight selfish bitches. Do you have the same views on people that bring their kids out in public??? Those damn smelly squelling buggers...keep them at home.....

Dog owners shouldn't be the only ones out there enjoying themselves, but you aren't either.



PhilBob said:


> And in a democracy the majority rules


There was a time that lynching people was pretty popular. I think we can agree that lynching people are bad

puffaluffagus-
You've NEVER been to a play spot without feeling like your at a kennel. I find that hard to believe. Most I've been to are dog free.


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## puffaluffagus

yeah yeah you are correct I have been to alot of playspots that are dog free. I guess my point is that at times it can be annoying when there are a buncha dogs loose on shore. I am a dog person. I have made a choice not to have a dog cause they are too much of a responsiblity. and it is usually friends of mine that bring the damn dogs. That said, it just sucks when your sandwhich is consumed by a dog or you step in shit or if while hanging out all ya hear is barking. Some people with dogs should try to respect those that don't have dog by leaving the dogs at home


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## PhilBob

sorry for posting my opinion.


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## jeffro

Which statement was taken out of context?

And as for the lynchings, the point is that you really shouldn't rely on a majority to back up your beliefs. A majority can clearly make the wrong decision. Especially with uneducated people making decisions.



> take your dog somewhere and kill it thats animal cruelty


Does this include taking my dog for a walk and having a drunk driver plow us over? Does this include taking fido to the vet for his yearly check up and something killing him. Everywhere I take my dog--including my backyard--there is a chance that the dog will die. There is also a chance he would die on the river. Why do you feel you have the ability and right to access which activities are too risky for my dog?

I enjoy living in a democratic society. Personally, I would prefer that I lived in one that relies on personal responsibility, not morons making laws for everybody else.

Thanks for checking my spelling. Be sure to let me know what I mispelled this time too!


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## PhilBob

sorry for posting my opinion.


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## jeffro

PhilBob said:


> When you shorten a sentence to leave out the parts you want thats called taking it out of context.


I'll quote the whole damn paragraph if that makes you feel better.



PhilBob said:


> I respect your right to bring your dog just as I respect your right to respond to a post on a message board, do you respect my right to have some places dog free? You obviously dont have any respect for a persons feelings the way you turned this into a personal attack. Which is at the core of the problem; dog owners lack of respect for other people.


My repsonse is still the same. Thats a overgeneralizing insult.

I am not attacking your right to free speech. Where do you get this idea. I am however disagreeing with the stuff you're saying.



PhilBob said:


> If you honestly cant tell the difference then I feel sorry for you.


This really is not black and white. There is a whole continuum of risks that you can expose a dog to. I still feel that you don't have the ability or right to decide which of those are appropriate risks for my dog and I. Even you have 26 years of experience and however many documented river miles.


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## downshiftbarbie

philbob, you're really one to be calling people out on spelling. Been a while since high school English? Try using an apostrophe or comma now and then.


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## J Rock

Maybe I am just a liberal... oh yeah, I am, but isn't democracy and America about personal rights. Phil, you say that you don't want your rights to be dismissed and it's your right to enjoy the Public rivers and land without the annoyance of dogs. Fair enough. But what about the rights of dog owners who want to bring their pets with them while they enjoy the same public rivers and land? Who's rights are more important? I believe, and this may really be a stretch for some people, that personal rights aren't about what YOU can do or say, but about YOU accepting the things that others do and say which piss you off or make you mad. Acceptance of other's personal rights and freedoms is the greatest form of freedom we can give to each other. Dogs are on the rivers, like it or not. If you cannot accept that personal freedom being expressed by others than find a sport which doesn't allow dogs... I can think of many off the top of my head which require leaving the dog at home. Otherwise, accept the river sports for what they are dogs included. I agree that people who leave their K9 tied to the back of a truck or in a car while they boat are irresponsible. Probably shouldn't be a dog owner... but labeling of all dog owners or making a blanket law forbidding people to bring their dogs with them is irresponsible as well. Despite your claims, the rights of animals are not picking up much steam, except for in Boulder. If you don't live in Boulder, then your pet is still, by law, considered "property." Doesn't mean that animal control won't take your animal away for brutality or abuse, but unless a city or county has "Tether Laws" roping a dog to the back of truck isn't illegal. There are many municipalities who are trying to change this, but they are running into major legal problems along the way. I agree with your posts that some people are irresponsible dog owners and I am not going to call you names, because that isn't productive. I just hope you realize the irony of your statements. Phil, for someone who has used this thread to champion YOUR rights on the river, you seem very unaccepting of the rights of the OTHER people who call this great country home. But I agree, the name calling isn't good for either side of this debate.


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## 217

I keep looking in the constitution and in precedent set by the courts to find where it says that you have the "right" to own a dog....i just can't find it....someone help!!!! J ROck this is your specialty so please enlighten us. Maybe show me where it says you can enjoy the "parks and natural recourses" without interference from dogs....

-aaron


P.S. it does say something about being able to own a gun though....backasswards if you ask me.


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## WAVER

It's a shame, imo to see the childish behavior shown toward this issue. If you don't want to abide buy the regs for Westwater, go somewhere else or accept the consequences like an adult.


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## Doug Poudre

After looking over this thread, I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one at work slacking off. Maybe everyone needs to get off the computer and go outside or something. And respect from all sides would be another great idea. Yes there are some idiots out there who take their dogs places and either have no control over the dog or choose to have no control over the dog. Either one is wrong. By the same token, anyone who drives recklessly without a turn signal, cutting people off should be lynched. :wink: No seriously, they should. They are just an accident waiting to happen to someone else.

What it boils down to is respect for everyone, including the dogs, and taking responsibility for your actions, before they lead to negative consequences.

Hope all the spelling and punctuation was right, since I'm being graded.


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## BastrdSonOfElvis

I love dogs...they taste like chicken. General Tso's Chicken.


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## Guest

kewl topic guys


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## soylent green

"Denali! Denali! get back here, don't cross the avalanche slope." (screamed very loudly all day :x )

"Lochsa! Lochsa! Bad boy, Lochsa!" (screamed even louder by yet another dog owner that only thinks they have voice control of their dog)

"(insert stupid outdoor name here)! don't fight/steal food!" :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: 

Most dog owners really annoy me when they bring them in the backcountry and to the river.


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## jennifer

I love dogs, but I do agree with Philbob. There are some dogs that I would gladly welcome anywhere I go, including the river, but the vast majority would greatly degrade the outdoor experience for me. 

I stepped in dog crap 4 times last year - two times at the Golden whitewater park, and twice while hiking. Once I rode over a pile of crap with my bike, but didn't know about it until I threw the bike in my Subaru and then got to smell it for 3 months. Dog feces is NO LESS disgusting than human feces, and I'm pretty sure it would be a problem if I started craping all over the high-traffic paths, parks, sidewalks, and put-ins, so why do SOOOO many dog owners leave these little land mines to ruin someone else's day?

I also did NOT appreciate it when I was camping a few years back and someone else's beloved pets decided to use my brand new tent as a urinal for the weekend. This is ridiculous, folks, and I find it disturbing that so many dog owners are calling US the selfish ones.


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## soylent green

jennifer said:


> This is ridiculous, folks, and I find it disturbing that so many dog owners are calling US the selfish ones.


Hmmmmmm.......
Sounds similar to the public smoking/secondhand smoke issue.


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## FLOWTORCH

ah dude, dont get me started on annoying ass dog owners and their outdoorsy names. What about "Lhotse", "Chaco" or Yukon?! Lame!

I tried to get as far away from that as I could and named him after a conglomerate of Nascar names.


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## matty1971

I'd like to see someone free my buddy's old dog. The only thing getting free would be a turd in some dude's pants.


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## Steve Kahn

*dogs*

haven't we been thru this one already? i think i've read this same thread through the years a few times now. 

isn't there a more worthwhile topic to bitch about?


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## BastrdSonOfElvis

The revival of this thread makes me hungry for chinese food.

I named my dog "X-terra". Yeah...she's pretty extreme.


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## johndoe1962

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## jboats

Your all nutts, dog owners and non dogg owners. 
with the exception of dog owners leaving their dogs in the car on hot ass days. Punish those dinks....

Why does everything result in laws. I'm a non smoker and this new state wide law annoys me as a business owner. Tax me instead, so that I have the right to make the decision. Although your still influenceing my decision, it's still my decision... Once a law is on the books it stays for a long time. Laws on the books don't come off easily. 

Why not tax the dog owners? You have parking meters in dtown that have you pay to get the parking ticket, have a similar thing for the dog owners at the play parks. Where after you pay you get a ticket to place on your dogs collar. The money's can be used to deal with it then, maybe build a dog frienly hole with a kennel area, or put it into repairing the parks features, etc. . Laws are good but to many idiots are out there trying to enact dumb ass ones. Why must we join this crew?

Whitewater entusiasts are a small group and tightly knitt crew with mb's like this. Can't we use our heads to come up a solution with this park and play senario???

Stop making this personal and offer a good way to deal with it. non dog owners don't need to come up with the ideas the dog owners do and the rest will have to agree. Otherwise we lose all freedoms... beyond just the dog issue.......


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## &d

*dedicated dogs*

Just like people, some dogs are incompetant as either members of society or as (doggy)paddlers. Just like in river running, oversimplimatic, systematic approaches to lifes obstacles will run into innumerable barriers. 

Just my two sense, I love my dog, he obeys strangers, but that took about five months of my undivided attention to arrange.


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## Alex Hotze

*Heffer*

He Jeffro I Think you are a big fat smelly pussy that never calls me anymore! Just kidding. You have a dog now?? That is way to much responibility isn't it? We found a new playspot over here. It's way sicker than those front range piece o shit holes! Have fun in AK.


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## mizzcurrent

Hey, These Guys are Great! They have to follow alot of Stupid Asses down River, get very little pay, and have to deal with the idiots that don't even know what a PFD is. Cut them some slack. Someday, you may be looking forward to seeing them.


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## Badazws6

mizzcurrent said:


> Hey, These Guys are Great! They have to follow alot of Stupid Asses down River, get very little pay, and have to deal with the idiots that don't even know what a PFD is. Cut them some slack. Someday, you may be looking forward to seeing them.


Way to bring back a two year old thread...


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## nobody

To clarify:

Dogs are allowed at westwater. You are not allowed to leave them alone while you have a good time. (you might have gotten this from your childhood: when your mom went to go whore around and left you alone as a child; therefore you do the same with your dog). Dogs will not be allowed if people let them off the leash around the put-in and take-out, and do not pick up there shit. 

As for the comments about the rangers: If they have been a hard ass towards you, you deserve it. They have a job to keep the place in check, and when you fuc# up they should ban you a$$ so people that respect the area and rules can take your lame a$$ spot. 

For future dog runners: Keep it cool and control you dog and pick up there shit.

If you do not like dogs around the river, go back to the east-slope or front range, or better yet go back to the midwest where your trick a$$ came from. 

Peace


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## Andy H.

I hate to continue a 2-yr old post but.....

Also of note to remember is a new rule that's probably not in the stipulations you receive with the permit - if you wake up the ranger partying the night before, you'll launch last (if at all). 

They're enforcing the 10 pm quiet time very strictly these days so if you want to party til you puke, camping elsewhere is recommended.

-AH


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## Badazws6

Hey Andy,

Good hitting the water with you a few weeks back.

Matt R.


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## peak

one time at band camp this hot girl told me my fly was down and i was so embarassed i told her "i know" and walked off...


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## milo

*.....gayness happens....*

.........just read the entire post(yawn)...have had more fun at church....getta grip people.....the whole thing was gayer than two guys going in halves on a handbasket of lotion....ps.... i had a dog for 14 years...best thing ever....some things just get chaulked up as "a dogs life"....


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## riojedi

*I'll never die*

Please help keep this post alive. I've so looked forward to seeing it again this summer.


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## cdw

*are dogs allowed?*

Sorry to divert from the flaming/bashing going on, but per the website Westwater Canyon dogs seem ok when *Camping at the Ranger Station *if you are OK w/ "keeping your dog on a leash and picking up its waste" and there is nothing that I can say forbiding dogs on the agua, so I just wanted to check before I got a permit.
any answers to my question are appreciated
-c


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