# Smith River MT - self shuttle possible?



## AirEms (Jan 16, 2011)

Hey Okie,
I'm going to PM you my phone #, easier to chat and get you the info you're looking for that way.


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## spider (Jun 20, 2011)

get the shuttle, way easy and you get a free wash and detailing of your rig


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## okieboater (Oct 19, 2004)

Just had a great telephone conversation with AirEms out of Great Falls. 

Answered all my questions and a fun conversation about Montana Rivers. All sorts of information from one of the Smith River locals.

Proving again what a great bunch of folks we have on this message board.

Thanks Mark!!!!


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## yodeloper (Jul 11, 2013)

Hi ya. I'll going to the Smith in June. I have the same questions. AirEms, still available? Thanks


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## AirEms (Jan 16, 2011)

Hey yode,
What info do you need? By the way, I was born and raised and went to school in Missoula (Go Griz!). 
Mark


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## yodeloper (Jul 11, 2013)

Hey thanks for the reply. Go Griz!.. Just wanted to find the right shuttle and contacts and maybe best camps for a 5 day float, etc. Thanks again


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## okieboater (Oct 19, 2004)

AirEms for sure knows his stuff on smith river shuttles. Gave me a bunch of facts and advice.

I spent time looking into Smith River self shuttles. I feel it is true a group can do their own. I also feel no matter how you setup your self shuttle it is gonna take a lot of time and driving.

After looking at the facts, our group is going to use the shuttle services of the outfit whose parking lot is a short distance from the smith river take out. Our group contains a lot of Smith River repeat boaters and that outfitter gave us above expected service. One time the roads were muddy and when we picked up our trucks at the take out they were washed and clean. A first to see from a shuttle service in my experience.

Our group is made up of folks living out of the beautiful state of Montana. With drives from one to two days to get there. We felt the services of the shuttle service were worth the money and made our vacation time at the Smith more enjoyable.

Pull into the put in lot. Park your vehicle. Take your time rigging. That shuttle service for us took over and our trucks were clean and parked at the take out. No worries. Not gonna mention them by name but they are the ones that advertise their lot is right at the takeout.


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## king00 (Dec 4, 2014)

This seems like a very interesting thread. join the learning to hopefully get enlightenment


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## elkhaven (Sep 11, 2013)

"Smith River Shuttles": not sure why no one is naming them by name but just ran a shuttle with them last month and as always or rig was way cleaner than when we left it. Great people. If you want one of the great montana gravel road drives, run the gravel road on one leg of your journey (weather permitting). It's really not that sloppy, so baring massive rains it should be well worth your time. 

Sent from my SM-G900V using Mountain Buzz mobile app


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## RAM1961 (May 17, 2015)

New here and launching 6/13. There's 2-3 shuttle services I'm aware of, and have them take the pavement vs. the gravel. Worth the extra few bucks.


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## okieboater (Oct 19, 2004)

This is my third year in a row to do the smith in the early june time frame. We launch june one this year. Man alive I am a lucky river tripper and have great river buds as far as Smith River is concerned.

We used Smith River Shuttles on all trips. 
This year one of the first time trip members wanted to do self shuttle.
I started this thread and got a lot of information. Thanks Buzz members.

Bottom line is Jody and Caroline Cox run Smith River Shuttles Home - Smith River Shuttle | Great Falls, Montana. I just set up our shuttle with Caroline yesterday and you could not ask for a better more customer oriented person. I know they took great care of our trucks on previous trips and what a bonus to get in your truck and it is washed and clean at the take out.

Caroline told me they give folks the option of taking the long route paved of 160 miles that has a section of 12 miles gravel or short route 70 miles all gravel but for 7 paved miles. There is a small up charge for the long route. Our group has taken the short gravel each year and no problems. This is due to the quality drivers used by Caroline I think. Jody and Caroline run a ranch there on the Smith. This is a family run operation. I think they are in the shuttle business for the long haul and take care of their customers, expecting repeat business. 

Bottom line is yup you can do the smith shuttle yourself. After a lot of fact finding on my part, our group choose smith river shuttles and the shorter gravel road option. I have zero knowledge of the other shuttle companies but from personal experience with smith river shuttles have to say they are at the top of customer service of all the shuttle companies I have used over many decades of floating.

Our group decided it was worth the cost to just drive to the put in and use smith river shuttles. Usually the lead driver from smith river shuttles will come by or at least they have on my trips and make sure things are setup before you launch. This gives you time to relax and get on river time. And for us knowing our trucks were parked on the shuttle company lot at the take out is a good thing.

Probably more detail than you want on this, but this is my experience.


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## RAM1961 (May 17, 2015)

Okie, when's your launch date in June?


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## okieboater (Oct 19, 2004)

June 1

hoping for good weather and good water level

dave


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## RAM1961 (May 17, 2015)

okieboater said:


> June 1
> 
> hoping for good weather and good water level
> 
> dave



How was your trip? Water level should've been good - appears you may have a slight monsoon the day you launched.


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## okieboater (Oct 19, 2004)

Seems to me like few of the river trips stay in my memory bank when every thing is perfect. We will be talking about this Smith River float around a lot of future camp fires.

Looking back this was another great Smith Float trip with some exciting events along the way.

I have a couple of original Moss Tarps. Taken care of these things last many years and many trips. I have the outfitter version for people and the smaller parawing for the kitchen. With out them this trip would have been miserable.

We had rain some times during each 24 hour period. The Smith weather pattern for me has been short but heavy events with just beautiful periods after the event and this was true for this trip. When the sun was out it was just awesome and things would dry out fast. And, it would be hot. Nights were cool tho and I took a winter weight sleeping bag along which was just perfect un zipped.

For us, we got lucky in setting up camp and breaking down camp as far as rain events giving us time to stay dry making and breaking camp. 

One night early in the trip we got camp set up and planned for a Dutch Oven dish. 
We were setting up the kitchen and DO stuff when wind started and we left that to put up tents and the big tarp. Got both jobs done. We all gathered under the big tarp and enjoyed the rain. After a while, thunder, lightning, hurricane force winds came up. Rain started blowing inside the tarp as wind shift was blowing directly in the openings. Even the normally solid Moss design started flapping big time. So we opted to run for our tents. For maybe 30 minutes it was constant thunder, big time lightning flashes, rain in monster drops wind solid with gusts the blew down one tent and inside my tent it was shaking constantly. I actually put on all my rain gear and put my sleeping bag in a dry bag. Thinking my tent might blow down. It did not and I was happy for that. Big storm passed on but pretty serious rain continued. One of the Dad's (we had 7 young kiddos and 8 adults on this trip) and I went back to the big tarp. Others stayed in their tents. The Dad AKA Eric and I discussed dinner and he allowed he had two big bags of frozen stew for a later dinner. We decided to get that out and I got the stove set up. We began the process of melting the frozen stew and getting it hot. This took a while. Eric took bowls of soup and wheat bread to the kids in the tents came back and did the same for the Mom's who were keeping kiddos happy. We got the other frozen block of stew out (regardless of what you read the old Yeti coolers work great) and did the thaw and heat routine. The other guys came out of their tents and we got every one bowls of outstanding stew. Eric had big chunks of South Dakota venison, chicken along with many veggies and man that was great soup. We men added shots of hot sauce to the bowls and cleaned up all the soup. After a short visit, we all ran back to the tents for a rainy night. Morning broke clear and warm as it often does and we enjoyed a great day with one brief thunder storm with tiny hail - since we were all dressed for the weather it was not a problem.

I have been through a bunch of western storms over the years. This Montana one had the combo of rain, wind, thunder and lightning at max levels all going on at the same time, that I have never seen. You Montana locals are no doubt used to this type of storms. Oklahoma has some violent weather during tornado season but Montana has these mountain storms that rival Okie Tornado events in blowing things around.

River was at bank full and fast so no trouble hitting rocks etc that normal Smith floats face. Water was muddy so a lot of money was given to Montana fish and game for fishing out of state license for our group. None of us fished altho we saw a few people with fly rods out but we never saw any fish caught.

When it was not thundering with rain, the trip was about as good as it gets anywhere. We saw game all the time. Many deer, eagles, ducks etc etc. The river rangers do an awesome job with the pit toilets at each camp site. None of them had toilet paper so future Smith Trippers take plenty of T/P in zip locks just in case.

This was my third trip on the Smith. I have been blessed to run most of the permitted multiday runs in the US. The Smith is not for the adrenaline white water junkies out there even tho the raft captains need pretty much constant water reading for the lines and to avoid hidden under water rocks. Also a ton of under cut cliff shots to take care of.

Put me down as a big fan of the Smith and Montana. After seeing the endless grass covered rolling hills and surrounding snow capped mountains, I think this is about heaven for buffalo and grass eating animals. Perfect for the native americans with horses. No wonder why the locals fought so hard to keep these lands from the miners and settlers. This country just would not be right sectioned off with barbed wire or mine run off. There is still a lot of freedom in Montana and I hope it can be kept for further generations to experience.

Bottom line, another awesome trip for our group. Thanks to all the help I got from you fellow buzzards. I hope I can repay that help. By the way, another super shuttle from Smith River Shuttles. Great to have trucks right at the take out clean and shined up for the drive home. We also stopped at the Heaven on Earth Ranch for ice cream. The owner came out, went back to the main house to get us a monster bucket of home made ice cream so we could do floats with root beer and double chocolate stout. He then sat with us and told us the history of the ranch. If you have the image of the perfect Montana Ranch Cowboy - he fits the bill perfectly. Told adults the history and the kids about the horses in an adjacent holding area.

As you can tell, I am now a big fan of the Smith River and Montana in general.


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## elkhaven (Sep 11, 2013)

Great write up, glad you had a memorable trip - for all the right reasons. 

I guess I'll be the first to pass on the age old weather adage: "If you don't like the weather in Montana, wait 5 minutes...it'll change". I've related a story about my bimini on several threads recently and from the sounds of things they were similar storms (minus most of the lightening for us) but you were in camp and we were on the water. It can get downright brutal on that river at times and it can be as near heaven as I'm ready for right now.

Did you get the chance to drive the Millegan Road? If not here's a taste:


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## elkhaven (Sep 11, 2013)

Oh, one more thing just to note for folks. FWP has never supplied TP, so it's nothing new, just plan on bringing your own just like everywhere else...

FWIW


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## daledevon (Jun 10, 2013)

I have done the self shuttle. One year the rain made the gravel road very wet and sloppy, it probably took at least 2 hours to get all the mud off the trailer and raft. If there is no rain, it is one of the prettiest drives you will ever do, however most floats are in June, which is the wettest month in Montana. Just one last note it is not go griz, it is GO CATS.


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## RAM1961 (May 17, 2015)

I talked to Jody with Smith River Shuttles the other day - says they haven't taken Millegan Rd. for two weeks now due to all the rain. I see the river is dropping again after the monsoon on 6/1 - clarity should improve by our launch date this Saturday assuming nothing else rolls in.


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## BReds (Oct 29, 2014)

*Flows Tanking*

Looks like the flows have tanked from 800+ to 350ish. We have a July 2nd launch..... hopefully the Smith Gods are kind the next couple weeks.


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## okieboater (Oct 19, 2004)

It was flowing big time when we were there week of June 1.
Muddy tho.
Hopefully, it will be clear when you get there.
Be sure to stop at Heaven On Earth Ranch for ice cream. Awesome treat for adults and kiddos.
We had a few intense rain storms, so take a tarp and very strong stakes. 
Smith River Shuttles did a good job on our vehicles.
Rangers have assigned camps with pit toilets - remember to take toilet paper with zip loc bags to protect from rain.


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## RAM1961 (May 17, 2015)

Yes, the flows have dropped dramatically. 420 cfs when we left Sat. (6/13) and creeks downstream were not dumping a lot of water in. We pulled out yesterday (6/17) and cfs was only 400 at Eden Bridge. Very disappointing flows - we had to drag over gravel bars every day. Water was still fairly murky the whole trip - not a lot of fish caught. Saw several bears although none bothered us at boat camps. The rapids on the last day are all showing rocks big time - go left to avoid first batch at Upper Givens.


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## BReds (Oct 29, 2014)

Thanks for the update, folks. We are pulling the rip cord on this trip. July 2nd put in is not going to happen. Too bad.


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## AirEms (Jan 16, 2011)

Hey BReds,
If you're giving up the permit for July 2nd I'll be looking for it. I have put on as low as 152cfs and had wonderful trips. I think it will be in the 200 range. You just go light and it's right. The fishing is also the best then. Okie, I just read your TR and boy oh boy did you guys hit the Montana monsoon or what! That was some wet weather we had then, but as you said It's all good! 
Later All!
Mark


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## elkhaven (Sep 11, 2013)

I did 225 this spring and had no problems what so ever... you always have to drag a little (like 20 yards) below Rock Creek when the waters below 250, but it's not bad at all. If you keep your eyes downstream occasionally you shouldn't be dragging daily... And realize that the deepest channels are usually near the banks not in the middle.

FWIW I've done 2 sub 100 trips in rafts. One was hellacious because we were really loaded. The other was great but we were pretty light... still had beer and chairs, just kept the rest very simple and went no more than 2 people per boat.

I'm not trying to rob airems out of a trip (not that there won't be plenty more cancellations that time of year) its just if you're prepared for low water it's really not that bad, you just have to watch for the damn little sleeper rocks that don't show themselves.


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## lindazco (Jul 6, 2004)

*July 7*

July 7th put-in - pray for rain! Thanks for letting us know it's possible at low flows. We'll be, in the words of WSP, travelin' light!


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## elkhaven (Sep 11, 2013)

lindazco said:


> July 7th put-in - pray for rain! Thanks for letting us know it's possible at low flows. We'll be, in the words of WSP, travelin' light!


If it does approach your lower limit watch for T-storms... A good storm can give it a fair bump that usually takes at least a few days to drop back down. A couple evenings of storms can bring it up 100 cfs or more and give you another week - so if possible hold off till the last minute to call it.


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## lindazco (Jul 6, 2004)

Thanks- that's our plan



Sent from my iPhone using Mountain Buzz


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## okieboater (Oct 19, 2004)

Thanks AirEMS for a long and productive phone chat on the Smith. Much appreciated.

Sure hope you get a Smith cancellation along with good fishing in.

As mentioned above, our group put some money in the Game and Fish coffer but due to muddy water no fishing gear was broken out.

Having run most of the big rapids run around the US, now having found the Smith, man I just love that little stream and area. It is one of the few floats with delicious home made ice cream a few days in the float.

I will relate one part of our float that gave us all a ton of fun. We had seven youngsters mostly pre teen. Excellent addition to the trip. One of the uncles on the trip had a big round raft. He became the kid wrangler and all around youth organizer.
Each day he loaded up his raft with most of the kiddos. He would pick the spots but except for the wall shots, that big yellow raft was oared most of the time by the kids. Sometime two on one oar! It was a hoot to watch them bounce down river what ever with every one having a great time. The high water cushioned every thing and made this kid raft captain action possible. The kid wrangler also organized all the kids into junior river rangers with prizes for the most micro trash picked up per camp site. It was a hoot to watch. Competition at a high level for sure.

I have been on a lot of river trips, do not remember laughing so much as we did on this one. It was constant action till the Mom's commanded 'Tent Time Kids" then it was quiet for the adults to visit a while before we hit the tents.

Being such a kid friendly trip is another of the special treats we get from the Smith.

You Montana boaters are lucky to be able to pick and choose on cancellations and plus having the skill set to run low water with no problem.


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## elkhaven (Sep 11, 2013)

Boy, I just looked at the water temp and it's getting up to 68. That's not good for the future - It'll probably be hitting the 80's by August...I sure hope we don't have another 2001 and a huge fish kill. It was just getting back to normal.


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## BReds (Oct 29, 2014)

Our group has pulled the plug on this. I would have been super disappointed but we did it last year and hopefully things will align next. Unfortunately, our group drinks way too much beer to go super light with low CFS. 

Anyway, thanks for all of the tips and updates, folks. There will be a July 2nd coming up for those of you who are looking to take on the lower flows. It's not my permit but I'll post up here when my buddy cancels provided he tells me. Probably next week I'd guess.

On another note, the dudes trip on the Smith was supposed to back into a trip with my wife. She and I are still going to head up to Montana around July 6th. We'd like to do a multi day trip on the Big Hole (maybe 2 x 2 day trips or something). Any advice would be helpful.


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## BigSky (Apr 2, 2015)

BReds said:


> Our group has pulled the plug on this. I would have been super disappointed but we did it last year and hopefully things will align next. Unfortunately, our group drinks way too much beer to go super light with low CFS.
> 
> Anyway, thanks for all of the tips and updates, folks. There will be a July 2nd coming up for those of you who are looking to take on the lower flows. It's not my permit but I'll post up here when my buddy cancels provided he tells me. Probably next week I'd guess.
> 
> On another note, the dudes trip on the Smith was supposed to back into a trip with my wife. She and I are still going to head up to Montana around July 6th. We'd like to do a multi day trip on the Big Hole (maybe 2 x 2 day trips or something). *Any advice would be helpful*.


Bring bug spray. Lots of it. Like gallons.


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## elkhaven (Sep 11, 2013)

BigSky said:


> Bring bug spray. Lots of it. Like gallons.


??? The smith is the least buggy river in Montana or at least close to it. No stagnant water and very little grass. Sure there's some skeeters butt they're useualy not that bad. 

Are you taking from resent experience? They were horrible on the Big Hole last week!

edit and disregard my comment above
yeah, they were horrible on the big hole. ...I was stuck thinking about the smith but the BH is one buggy sob. On a positive note they seemed to react favorably to deet. Still annoying but fewer bites. sorry big sky I shouldn't post this late


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## BigSky (Apr 2, 2015)

elkhaven said:


> ??? The smith is the least buggy river in Montana or at least close to it. No stagnant water and very little grass. Sure there's some skeeters butt they're useualy not that bad.
> 
> Are you taking from resent experience? They were horrible on the Big Hole last week!
> 
> ...


Happens to the best of us.


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## lindazco (Jul 6, 2004)

Oakieboater - where's the ice cream on the Smith? Any other tidbits of advice? We are still going on July 7 unless flows are ridiculously low.


Sent from my iPhone using Mountain Buzz


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## BReds (Oct 29, 2014)

BigSky said:


> Bring bug spray. Lots of it. Like gallons.


Good to know. I've heard this about the Big Hole. Do you think it will be any better around July 10th? My wife will be with me and tons of bugs will not win me any points. 

For ice cream on the Smith, it's at the golf course. They have awesome ice cream sandwiches. I can't remember what mile but it's a couple days in.


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## elkhaven (Sep 11, 2013)

lindazco said:


> Oakieboater - where's the ice cream on the Smith? Any other tidbits of advice? We are still going on July 7 unless flows are ridiculously low.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Mountain Buzz


I know I'm not oakieboater but the Heaven on Earth guest ranch has ice, ice cream, a par 3 golf course, lodging amongst other amenities. It's an awesome place run be great people. They used to make this cocktail called the Deep Creek - YUM until some a-hole turned them in for selling it without a liquor license.

It's a mile or so above Bear Gulch (which coincidentally has a spring with potable water). River Mile 28, usually middle of the third day.

Pictograph cave is a doozy of a hike but well worth it. The trail is river left a little more than a mile below Lower Parker Flat camp. There is a large rock out crop sticking into the river with a creek coming in against the rock. Tie up in the eddy immediately below the rock. You will be able to see the cave way above you.

If it's really low there is also a spring for water at mile 6 (middle Indian Springs), usually the upper 12 miles is the skinniest so not carrying 50 lbs of water might help you float a little higher.

The last day is also skinny and often has upriver winds. It's usually advisable to get up and get going to beat the winds, plus it's usually amongst the longest days on a 5 day trip.


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## elkhaven (Sep 11, 2013)

BReds said:


> Good to know. I've heard this about the Big Hole. Do you think it will be any better around July 10th? My wife will be with me and tons of bugs will not win me any points.
> 
> For ice cream on the Smith, it's at the golf course. They have awesome ice cream sandwiches. I can't remember what mile but it's a couple days in.


The Big Hole is basically surrounded by large wetlands, especially up high and usually has a lot of bugs. They certainly won't be any better by early July, infact they'll probably just be bigger... They were tiny little bastards two weeks ago. They are usually much less of a problem down low (like from Browns bridge down to Pennington bridge. This would also be a good place for an overnighter. Stay at notch bottom or near it. 

There are not true overnighters on the Big Hole, it's all road accessible but there are a few really cool camp sites a few miles below Maiden Rock, river right; that take a lot of effort to get to in a truck. That area is generally refered to as the canyon (between Divide and Melrose) and is also likely to have somewhat fewer bugs as it has very little ponded water and wet grass).

Above the canyon there is little public land and what there is has fishing access on it, so you'll essentially be floating from campground to campground.


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## BReds (Oct 29, 2014)

Thanks, Elkhaven. That's some great info. I'd like to fish too so this sounds pretty good.... just need to get a couple gallons of bug spray.


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## elkhaven (Sep 11, 2013)

BReds said:


> Thanks, Elkhaven. That's some great info. I'd like to fish too so this sounds pretty good.... just need to get a couple gallons of bug spray.


They did respond well the bug spray. Once I sprayed I really didn't notice them again... my kids though, were another story. One of them was wearing a shirt with mesh vents....needless to say he had a bunch of bites wherever the vents were. They stayed away from what was sprayed, at least until they swam it off!

Royal Wolfe with a parachute adams or small cadis is always a good rig. Salmon flies are over and it shifts to smaller stuff. Lots of brookies and grayling up high (above wise river) browns and bows and some grayling to the canyon, then pretty much browns and bows below that. Whitefish everywhere.

Good luck.


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## okieboater (Oct 19, 2004)

Elkhaven covered the ice cream offer well.

I have to say tho, the home made ice cream sandwich is for a ice cream eater like me "Heaven on Earth" there is other ice cream products there as well. 

If you run short on tee shirts, fleece or vests - there is a small but nice selection as well. I was a little short on warm layers and picked up a vest that worked very well for me for the remainder of our trip and will continue to work on other trips.

The ranch owner recently installed several nice raft tie down posts on the store's beach. Current is a little fast here and this makes taking care of raft's much easier than before.

Already looking forward to next years trip - assuming our group gets lucky on a permit.


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## lindazco (Jul 6, 2004)

Thanks much! We are planning on filtering water so we can go SUPER LIGHT - it's dropping and super hot there right now, but t-storms in the forecast next week! RAIN, RAIN, RAIN is what we are hoping for prior to the 7th. What is the lowest anyone has done it? We have 14' Hyside with 2 people.


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## pearen (Apr 28, 2007)

It is done for the year. I highly recommend NOT GOING IN THERE!


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## elkhaven (Sep 11, 2013)

I've put in just below 100 twice. The first was in early June 2001 with a 16' gear boat I was running for an outfitter. 48 hours of hell, non stop rain, took us 11 hours to go 6 miles. When we got there the guide had pulled his boat out and tied it to a tree forming a lean-to for shelter. The next day it snowed all day, pulled into camp at 9 pm after 13 hours on the water in either rain or snow the entire time. That day I think we did 11 miles. The next day we did 19 miles in 5 hours to get back on track. 

The second trip was two years later in late April. We packed much lighter, but still brought plenty of beer, real food and a full kitchen but we had 5 boats to spread everything out on, 2 people per boat. It was a great trip, I did blow a hole in my old PVC boat on a sharp rock. That took a couple hours to fix, but I don't recall much dragging. Getting hung up on rocks, yes but not so much actually dragging.

The big difference between now and these two trips was that the water was rising (1st to 200, second to 140) so things got easier for us, not harder. With that said, the Tenderfoot river comes in at Mile 16, usually bringing quite a bit of water but not always. Either way it is always easier below the Tenderfoot, the river changes some becoming slightly deeper and slower with more long pools. The riffles are usually deeper and slower too. The river above that is damn shallow, usually deeper near the banks and there are tons of sleeper rocks that you will get stuck on. Looking a head helps a ton, it also helps if the bow passenger can read water and look out for the sleepers and gravel bars. You will be ferrying back and forth to stay in the deep channel so be looking for those changes.

The last day is usually a bit shallower than the preceding 2 but better than the top. There really is just a couple long shallow riffles that can get you cursing a bit and of course the wind. It always blows up canyon, the warmer the weather, the earlier the wind usually.

I have an unofficial cutoff of 200 with the kids and began soul searching to determine if it's really worth it below 150 on adults only trips. In reality I've been lucky, I've done the two at 100 (the first of which I had no clue and the second was planned for that level) and 3 or 4 right around 200 that were saved by rain a week or so ahead of time. If it's still dropping then for me 200 no problemo, 150 - yes. 125 proly; sub 100 - no.

I will do my rain dance tonight, cause heck we need it anyways! Best of luck on your trip, I sure do hope it comes up (or at least quits dropping).


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## elkhaven (Sep 11, 2013)

pearen said:


> It is done for the year. I highly recommend NOT GOING IN THERE!


That's one way we get lots of cancellation trips.


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## RAM1961 (May 17, 2015)

elkhaven said:


> I know I'm not oakieboater but the Heaven on Earth guest ranch has ice, ice cream, a par 3 golf course, lodging amongst other amenities. It's an awesome place run be great people. They used to make this cocktail called the Deep Creek - YUM until some a-hole turned them in for selling it without a liquor license.


They were serving the Deep Creek a couple weeks ago when we passed through. I believe I had four. They simply asked for a donation - $5 each seemed to be acceptable. Good thing the river police didn't see me weaving down river afterwards...oh wait....we call that ferrying......


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## elkhaven (Sep 11, 2013)

RAM1961 said:


> They were serving the Deep Creek a couple weeks ago when we passed through. I believe I had four. They simply asked for a donation - $5 each seemed to be acceptable. Good thing the river police didn't see me weaving down river afterwards...oh wait....we call that ferrying......


That's great news! I can tip 'em back but 5 might do me in... I'd definitely be "ferrying".


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## lindazco (Jul 6, 2004)

It's at 128 and some slight chances for T-storms in the next few days - to pull the plug or not, that is the question! The folks from MT Parks and a local guide say it is done. Water is too warm and too low.


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## elkhaven (Sep 11, 2013)

Id have to agree. The water is way warm, catching fish will kill them. I can't believe fwp hasn't closed fishing, at least after noon. I talked with a guy that came off last weekend and he said it's pretty thin. The first day was tough but still enjoyable. I wouldn't go if things don't change and the odds of something changing are dropping fastwe than the water.


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## BReds (Oct 29, 2014)

*Smith Memories Video*

Apologies in advance for going off topic but this is a cool video on the Smith and the proposed mine: 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BX1KHSOjepE


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## elkhaven (Sep 11, 2013)

BReds said:


> Apologies in advance for going off topic but this is a cool video on the Smith and the proposed mine:


I'm sure this will get interesting but be very wary of videos that present NO actual data but show lots and lots of pretty pictures and have lots of stories about how much people love the river. I love the river too but I'd like to hear more facts, not the plucking of heartstrings.

Don't just run off an sign some petition without informing your self and making an educated decision. That is all I have to say on the matter.


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## elkhaven (Sep 11, 2013)

*The fish have a much more immediate threat than the mine...*

On topic, sort of...since this thread was originally about shuttles...

I'm sad to say the river reached 78 degrees at Camp Baker last week and it's just barely July. The last time something similar happened was 2001 when she got down to 25 cfs (reportedly) and highly caring individuals were found 4-wheeling up the river well outside the normal fords. There was a massive fish kill that year and it's taken the past decade to recover from it... Sad prospects for the near future for sure.

Off topic...

We woke this morning to a valley of smoke. I could not see a single one of the 7 mountain ranges we normally have in view. Fortunately for us at this point the smoke is from the poor bastards to the west, but I fear our time will come soon enough.


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## BigSky (Apr 2, 2015)

elkhaven said:


> On topic, sort of...since this thread was originally about shuttles...
> 
> I'm sad to say the river reached 78 degrees at Camp Baker last week and it's just barely July. The last time something similar happened was 2001 when she got down to 25 cfs (reportedly) and highly caring individuals were found 4-wheeling up the river well outside the normal fords. There was a massive fish kill that year and it's taken the past decade to recover from it... Sad prospects for the near future for sure.
> 
> ...


Definitely only a matter of time unless we get a major rain event. I wouldn't be at all surprised if somebody ignores the fireworks ban and sets half of western MT ablaze.


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## lindazco (Jul 6, 2004)

I talked to the ranger and a Smith outfitter. The outfitter pulled off the river early this week and took their clients to the Missouri. FWP says they are close to closing the river. Some folks who put in at 150 cfs (and dropping) said they were dragging rafts for 2.5 days and fishing was slow at best. I think we are heading to the Flathead despite the North Fork forest fire, which is mostly under control for now - they are letting the interior portion burn itself out and the perimeter is controlled.


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