# Boundary Creek Road Opening Date 2022?



## trevorhaagenson

I’ve been waiting for the speculation to begin as to when the Boundary Creek road will open this year. Last I checked the Salmon drainage was at 84% of normal snow pack and Banner Summit was at 48” snow depth and 19.3” SWE. 
I have a 15 May permit. Anyone like to shovel and have a permit prior to that? I’m going one way or another so let the speculation begin.
Cheers,
Trevor


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## MT4Runner

Am told that 11" SWE at Banner is the time it generally gets opened.
Look at past years with similar curves. We had a 5/15 launch in 2015, but snowpack was in the upper 70% range.
Now that March is pretty well past, the chance of any significant accumulation is low, so it's just a matter of how fast it melts or if there's any high elevation rain.

I'll say you have a 60% chance of driving into Boundary.


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## athelake

https://www.wcc.nrcs.usda.gov/ftpref/data/water/wcs/gis/maps/id_swepctnormal_update.pdf



Currently the snow pack is 78%.


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## Idaho_ski_bum

Snow is melting fast in Idaho right now. Unless something changes drastically, I think you will be driving in by May 15.


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## MT4Runner

athelake said:


> https://www.wcc.nrcs.usda.gov/ftpref/data/water/wcs/gis/maps/id_swepctnormal_update.pdf
> 
> 
> 
> Currently the snow pack is 78%.


Similar to 2013 or 2020:


https://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/stelprdb5364381.pdf


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## River_Otter

We have a May 23rd and this link has been shared before and i've found it to be really helpful comparing SWE to gauge height. This year looking a lot like last

https://www.usbr.gov/uc/water/hydrodata/stf/Lower Snake/Mf Salmon R at Mf Lodge.html


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## IDriverRunner

River_Otter said:


> We have a May 23rd and this link has been shared before and i've found it to be really helpful comparing SWE to gauge height. This year looking a lot like last
> 
> https://www.usbr.gov/uc/water/hydrodata/stf/Lower Snake/Mf Salmon R at Mf Lodge.html


That's the one I use as well.

If I had to guess, I would guess that the road will be passable for the OPs May 15th permit. Things are looking warm and dry.


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## Cheeks

River_Otter said:


> We have a May 23rd and this link has been shared before and i've found it to be really helpful comparing SWE to gauge height. This year looking a lot like last
> 
> https://www.usbr.gov/uc/water/hydrodata/stf/Lower Snake/Mf Salmon R at Mf Lodge.html


Do these exist for other rivers out west? It's awesome!


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## Awesome_Otter

Cheeks said:


> Do these exist for other rivers out west? It's awesome!


They are really hard to find via search. 

Check out:

https://www.usbr.gov/uc/water/hydrodata/stf/

They are labeled as "snow to flow" maps on the bureau website. Updated essentially continuously and its neat to see the historical trends.


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## Pinchecharlie

How do you read those?


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## carvedog

MT4Runner said:


> Am told that 11" SWE at Banner is the time it generally gets opened.
> Look at past years with similar curves. We had a 5/15 launch in 2015, but snowpack was in the upper 70% range.
> Now that March is pretty well past, the chance of any significant accumulation is low, so it's just a matter of how fast it melts or if there's any high elevation rain.
> 
> I'll say you have a 60% chance of driving into Boundary.


I know it has been done at 11" of SWE. But that was also in mid June after a much bigger winter than we are having now. Angle of the sun vs time of year and duration of arc of sun over the road will change everything. And there was still over 40 inches of snow for what seemed like a 1/4 mile.

In early May the arc of the sun is lower and it seems like the snow is deeper in the curves before the long uphill and the last couple of curves before the summit push even at 6 to 8 inches of SWE.

That said it may well be good to go by then.


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## TFVandal

Following this link, snowpack very similar to 2021 and 2007.


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## codycleve

A local guide just ran Marsh, not a lot of a trip report but of note, Marsh has 3 to 4 snow bridges. marsh is as messy as he has seen it in 50ish runs. lots of wood. Also a really bad river wide log at the bottom of hells half mile. had to boof over it on very edge.


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## UseTheSpinMove

It's also pounding snow around these parts today! Wild April storm... we'll see how much it amounts to...


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## Devon Barker

Does anyone here have a MF May 18 or 19 permits that would be willing to take two people? I try to run a Marsh/Middle/Main each year but have not gotten a cancelation permit yet.


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## Count Me In

Devon Barker said:


> Does anyone here have a MF May 18 or 19 permits that would be willing to take two people? I try to run a Marsh/Middle/Main each year but have not gotten a cancelation permit yet.


I canceled a may 19th today. If you don't find it try asking again under a new post to draw more attention. Cheers


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## Devon Barker

Count Me In said:


> I canceled a may 19th today. If you don't find it try asking again under a new post to draw more attention. Cheers


Thank you. I will try that.


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## Count Me In

Devon Barker said:


> Thank you. I will try
> 
> 
> Devon Barker said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you. I will try that.
> 
> 
> 
> Check the most recent post. Looks like dangerfield is holding it to let expire. Good luck
Click to expand...


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## Dangerfield

There be a May 8th MF showing now (still) 12:59pm Pac Time


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## Dangerfield

Winter is back, snowing in Stanley ID now along with much of the PNW to varying degree's.









Live Webcams - Stanley Sawtooth Chamber of Commerce


City of Stanley City Clerk / Treasurer P.O. Box 53 / Highway 21 Stanley , ID 83278 Tel: 208-774-2286 Fax: 208-774-2278 Office Hours: Summer – Monday thru Thursday 8 AM – 5 PM, Winter – Monday thru Thursday 9:30 AM – 5PM Stanley City Website Mayor and City Council: City Council Meetings are held...




stanleycc.org


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## Devon Barker

Dangerfield said:


> Winter is back, snowing in Stanley ID now along with much of the PNW to varying degree's.
> 
> 
> 
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> 
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> 
> 
> Live Webcams - Stanley Sawtooth Chamber of Commerce
> 
> 
> City of Stanley City Clerk / Treasurer P.O. Box 53 / Highway 21 Stanley , ID 83278 Tel: 208-774-2286 Fax: 208-774-2278 Office Hours: Summer – Monday thru Thursday 8 AM – 5 PM, Winter – Monday thru Thursday 9:30 AM – 5PM Stanley City Website Mayor and City Council: City Council Meetings are held...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> stanleycc.org


Dangerfield,
Did you pick up May 19th?


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## Devon Barker

Dangerfield said:


> Winter is back, snowing in Stanley ID now along with much of the PNW to varying degree's.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> Live Webcams - Stanley Sawtooth Chamber of Commerce
> 
> 
> City of Stanley City Clerk / Treasurer P.O. Box 53 / Highway 21 Stanley , ID 83278 Tel: 208-774-2286 Fax: 208-774-2278 Office Hours: Summer – Monday thru Thursday 8 AM – 5 PM, Winter – Monday thru Thursday 9:30 AM – 5PM Stanley City Website Mayor and City Council: City Council Meetings are held...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> stanleycc.org


Snowing in Riggins too. Dangerfield, did you pick up the May 19 permit?


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## Dangerfield

Devon Barker said:


> Dangerfield,
> Did you pick up May 19th?


No, just let it go back. Someone picked it up shortly after I said it would come back on live.


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## Dangerfield

I wonder if this (snow/cold) is partly influencing the many pre season permit returns for the 1st part of May?


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## Pinchecharlie

I bet so. There's three dates open now. I've ne er been is there no road access this early like selway "over snow" deal? Snowmobiles? Lol


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## Conundrum

You can either sled, Marsh, or fly to Indian.


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## Dangerfield

The 21 day cancellation policy also applies on the pre lottery season, that would play exactly into these dates showing up.


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## Pinchecharlie

Last dumb question fir now- do these pre season post season dates become available at the regular lottery times? So you just pay to have a chance at a pre control date or is it free or? If it's pre control then why is it permitted or easier still-how do you get a pre or post season permit?


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## BenSlaughter

Pinchecharlie said:


> Last dumb question fir now- do these pre season post season dates become available at the regular lottery times? So you just pay to have a chance at a pre control date or is it free or? If it's pre control then why is it permitted or easier still-how do you get a pre or post season permit?











Middle Fork Of The Salmon (4 Rivers), Salmon-Challis National Forest - Recreation.gov


Explore Middle Fork Of The Salmon (4 Rivers) in Salmon-Challis National Forest, Idaho with Recreation.gov. Welcome to the remote and rugged mountains and rivers of Central Idaho, where over 10,000 people float the Middle Fork of the Salmon River each year. The 104 mi




www.recreation.gov




Just scroll down to the "Important Dates" section, Charlie. It's pretty clear(well, as clear as the guvmnt can make anything🙄)


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## Devon Barker

Dangerfield said:


> I wonder if this (snow/cold) is partly influencing the many pre season permit returns for the 1st part of May?
> 
> View attachment 75155


 That would be early for the road to be open and the airstrip at Indian Creek will be closed that week. Unless you are set up to run Marsh Creek that early, you would turn your permit back in.


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## Dangerfield

Devon Barker said:


> That would be early for the road to be open and the airstrip at Indian Creek will be closed that week. Unless you are set up to run Marsh Creek that early, you would turn your permit back in.


I should have remembered that airstrip closure. I was the one that posted on the notification a while back. Case of CRS on my part.


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## IDriverRunner

Keep in mind Indian isn’t the only airstrip to fly into. I’ve got a buddy that flew into Thomas Creek last month (yes, March) and floated down from there.


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## Pinchecharlie

Since iam "that guy" and I don't do my own research. At what elevation is the put in at boundary and or thr air strip? Just curious how full on winter it might be in March /April ? We had a low of 6 this week and that would be cold on a river...


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## TFVandal

Winter has returned to Idaho. I think the ramp is like 6,400 ft. Stanley area mountains could receive up to a foot of snow by Sunday according to last night's forecast.


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## Wadeinthewater

Pinchecharlie said:


> At what elevation is the put in at boundary and or the air strip?


I don't know where I got this.

*7,200 ft.* Middle Fork at the confluence of Bear Creek and Marsh Creek.
*6,280 ft*. Boundary Creek. (RM 0.0)
*5,515 ft.* Joe Bump Camp. (RM 11.8)
*5,000 ft.* Greyhound Creek. (RM 15.9)
*4,760 ft.* Pistol Creek Rapid. (RM 21.4)
*4,650 ft.* Indian Creek. (RM 24.7)
*4,415* *ft.* Thomas Creek. (RM 34.5)
*4,000 Ft:* Loon Creek. (RM 49.3)
*3,770 ft.* Camas Creek. (RM 59.9)
*3,600 Ft*: Flying B ranch. (RM 66.5)
*3,400 ft.* Big Creek. (RM 77.9)
*3,260 ft.* Ship Island Camp. (RM 84.5).
*3,027 ft.* Middle Fork Salmon confluence with the Main Salmon. (RM 96.3)


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## Pinchecharlie

So basically you need to be a hearty soul to be going up there this early ! Lol.


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## BenSlaughter

Screenshots I took from either here or Facebook a few years ago. 
That's Marsh Creek flowing under avalanche debris. I believe it was an April trip.
I'm pretty hardcore. I'm NOT that hardcore!


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## Pinchecharlie

Yeah thats definitely hardcore. I say now (to myself) just how life threatening is this day going to become and that is about as life threatening as it gets! But looks fun too! Let's do one! I have a hot tent and some wool socks! I have snowmobiles too ! Woot woot! Somewhere there's a trip report on dudes who skied over and then pack rafted ect...


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## BenSlaughter

Let'sdoit Charlie!
I need to get a smaller boat first, though. Portaging my barge isn't an option!


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## Pinchecharlie

I got ya covered if you didn't mind a smaller cat? Be fun and wild. Like the old days! My guys are doing a may selway on a pre season deal. So there's that too but that's more scary er . But it seems that early and late and maybe canceled is how it may be .


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## Idaho_ski_bum

Winter is back with a vengeance in the high country. Spent yesterday skiing thigh deep pow and it's dumping again today. A week ago it was 60 degrees and sunny. The Boundary creek road opening may be pushed back significantly. This amount of snow over the hard snow surface underneath could cause some big slides!


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## Devon Barker

Riggins today at 1500 ft. on the Little Salmon River just up from the junction of the Salmon. It feels like springter. Still, I am in need of a MF Salmon permit for May 18 or 19. It will be a snowy Marsh Creek launch with some portaging if the snow bridges are not melted out yet. Please contact me if you have one that I can join or if you are going to give it up. Many thanks.


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## Thrillhouse16

Have a May 25 launch and praying for road to be open despite this snowy white dream. Will offer up beer money for crews to dig in early.


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## IDriverRunner

Thrillhouse16 said:


> Have a May 25 launch and praying for road to be open despite this snowy white dream. Will offer up beer money for crews to dig in early.


With the temps jumping right back to mostly-normal I would bet you'll be just fine.


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## mikesee

Devon Barker said:


> Riggins today at 1500 ft. on the Little Salmon River just up from the junction of the Salmon. It feels like springter. Still, I am in need of a MF Salmon permit for May 18 or 19. It will be a snowy Marsh Creek launch with some portaging if the snow bridges are not melted out yet. Please contact me if you have one that I can join or if you are going to give it up. Many thanks.




I bet the bridges are gone already.

It was snowy down in GV last week, too.


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## GROH

oh this May 28th launch date is looking so good right now!!


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## riverboatinghannon

Thrillhouse16 said:


> Have a May 25 launch and praying for road to be open despite this snowy white dream. Will offer up beer money for crews to dig in early.


We have a may 21 launch. I'm hoping we will be able to get to boundary


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## JakeH

(Following). 5/23 launch


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## 572engr

I know the guides are going in 6/7 for a launch


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## trevorhaagenson

Do you know how the 7 May trip is getting in? Marsh? Flying? Over the snow vehicles? I would hire a snowcat for my 15 May launch if anyone knows of someone in the area that would want to take that on.


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## Pinchecharlie

Marsh doesn't look all that bad really . Just the possibility of bad wood is really all (and a portage my suck) looks fun. Giant boogie water! Fun stuff! Dagger falls looks stout though! Yikes!


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## carvedog

trevorhaagenson said:


> Do you know how the 7 May trip is getting in? Marsh? Flying? Over the snow vehicles? I would hire a snowcat for my 15 May launch if anyone knows of someone in the area that would want to take that on.


There was a guy who tried to run over the snow shuttles with a tracked van several years ago. It didn't work out that well. The first four miles is where you need to go thru or over the snow. Then you have something like 13 or 14 miles of mostly dry road to get past. Oh yeah but there may be snow lurking on the hill that separates Ayers Creek (Bruce Meadows) from the Dagger Creek and Boundary Creek downhill. A tracked vehicle traveling on a partially melting road could cause a lot of damage and likely tear the tracks up too, but I am not a snowcat expert so maybe they do ok on dirt, rock mixed road.


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## Dangerfield

The USFS is really up tight when it comes to road damage. Tearing up roads when soft no matter what the equipment will get their attention and could lead to other restrictions. I had to sign my life away so to speak every year I had to get into a facility 8 miles back on one of their roads and needed a special permit from them each time.


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## Bigwaterforeveryone

Wadeinthewater said:


> I don't know where I got this.
> 
> *7,200 ft.* Middle Fork at the confluence of Bear Creek and Marsh Creek.
> *6,280 ft*. Boundary Creek. (RM 0.0)


I'm pretty sure the bottom of the ramp at *Boundary Creek is at 5,700 ft*. elevation


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## Wadeinthewater

Bigwaterforeveryone said:


> I'm pretty sure the bottom of the ramp at *Boundary Creek is at 5,700 ft*. elevation


I believe you are correct. I just copied the information and did not check the elevations. Topo maps show the bottom of the ramp at about 5640 ft.


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## GratefulHeads

5/15 Marsh-middle-main booked. Wondering if anyone has info on the tree situation in Marsh. There will probably be too much snow to drive in to Boundary; we are still nordic skiing in McCall at 5100'. Plus you get to descend 1500' and 18 miles of river. Last year Marsh creek wasn't dire in a kayak. In a raft it would be extremely dangerous.


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## Dangerfield

One of USFS Notifications for the Middle Fork. 


Middle Fork boaters have reported the following hazards to the River Office this season:
4/19/22 - Lots of wood in Marsh Creek. Tree in left channel at First Bend. River-wide tree at Hells Half Mile. River-wide tree below Sater Cabin.


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## carvedog

GratefulHeads said:


> 5/15 Marsh-middle-main booked. Wondering if anyone has info on the tree situation in Marsh. There will probably be too much snow to drive in to Boundary; we are still nordic skiing in McCall at 5100'. Plus you get to descend 1500' and 18 miles of river. Last year Marsh creek wasn't dire in a kayak. In a raft it would be extremely dangerous.


Do you mean 1,500 feet on Marsh? You actually only lose about 800 feet of elevation. I think it is 48 feet per mile.


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## skiingonskis

This was earlier today. Snowing really hard and 4-5” already on the ground. Much more snow than a month ago. If you have a trip in the next few weeks, it’s time to have a plan B.


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## IDriverRunner

Thanks for the pic! I'm still feeling pretty confident for my May 27th. Once it starts melting it normally goes pretty quick.


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## carvedog

I have not been up to look at the road but it has been cold and steady with more precip coming next Monday and no significant warming after that for a bit. Not enough info to predict but those third week of May launches are not likely to drive to Boundary at this point. Maybe the fourth week too unless someone goes all hog wild and shovels a road in. I do plan to get up there in the next ten days or so and may have a better report. SWE is not budging.

Brush up your rescue game for Marsh or fly in is looking more likely. Sorry won't be able to help heading for a large crack in the ground in Arizona.


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## mrbaum

Rollin with yer confidence, got a May 25 . Carve dog we will miss your sagacity and encouragement


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## carvedog

mrbaum said:


> Rollin with yer confidence, got a May 25 . Carve dog we will miss your sagacity and encouragement


This is what I wrote to someone else with a date right around there. Keeping in mind with the forecast I don't expect the SWE to start dropping until next week sometime and then not much. This conversation revolves around the correlation between Banner Snotel SWE and temps and conditions on Fir Creek summit...

"""
So…..
It is not looking great for your launch to be honest. Another solid week of precip before some mild warming. 

If it starts getting into the mid 60s you will see melt rates of about .5 inch of SWE per day. It is not until you get in the mid 70s and the snow is isothermic that you get the inch per day melt rate up on Banner. If it doesn’t start to thaw until May 6th or 7th when it starts to warm up a bit according to forecasts. I used to laugh at the forecasts but in the last 15 years they have gotten increasingly more accurate.

For a serious attempt at the pass it should be under 10 on the SWE and it can still be very hard at that depth. And that is if there is not an avalanche on the other side. 

To get under 10, you will need to lose about 14 inches of SWE in 17 or 18 days. Not impossible it temps go up, just how hard you want to work. 

Unfortunately I won’t be organizing anything as I am headed to a large erosion crack in the ground in Southern Arizona. This will be my second Grand Canyon trip and it only took me 24 years between. 

I have to drive up and see what is going on for myself in the Sawtooth Valley and beyond, but the pic I saw of the road turnoff the other day was pretty deep. 

If I get more info I will certainly share. """"


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## Dangerfield

Here's the Stanley ID 10 day forecast. While it might not be exact, it show's a downward trend of cool wet weather in the area.





__





Stanley, ID 10-Day Weather Forecast | Weather Underground


Stanley Weather Forecasts. Weather Underground provides local & long-range weather forecasts, weatherreports, maps & tropical weather conditions for the Stanley area.



www.wunderground.com


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## carvedog

Dangerfield said:


> Here's the Stanley ID 10 day forecast. While it might not be exact, it show's a downward trend of cool wet weather in the area.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stanley, ID 10-Day Weather Forecast | Weather Underground
> 
> 
> Stanley Weather Forecasts. Weather Underground provides local & long-range weather forecasts, weatherreports, maps & tropical weather conditions for the Stanley area.
> 
> 
> 
> www.wunderground.com


That is actually Ketchum, which does correlate better to Banner for temps.

I use this to see what weather is like for the day...





__





AWC - Satellite


Aviation Weather Center Homepage provides comprehensive user-friendly aviation weather Text products and graphics.




www.aviationweather.gov





This is the NOAA which most forecasts are based on it seems. 





__





10-Day Meteorological Forecasts Used In NWRFC Hydrologic Models






www.nwrfc.noaa.gov





12Z is 6 AM MST the next day.


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## Dangerfield

Good to know. June appears to be looking better for decent flows this year, but I hope it doesn't come off all at once. Really crazy weather (snow, cold wet) in the PNW lately.


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## sbarker

Well..........I follow this closely. We got a team for May 17th. Not too optimistic. The SWE is the highest I have seen this time of year. I did hear someone report that on this sight that a team was digging in on May 14th, but I can't find it. Normal years my motivation would be high to get it open, not looking good. Will keep this group posted on our efforts. Carvedog, let us know if you get up there. Thanks for the help.


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## sbarker

Any word on wood in the middle fork? I heard there was two logs......any pictures?


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## TFVandal

Once more into the breach sbarker! Rooting for you!


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## GROH

You can do it!!!!


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## sbarker

Dangerfield said:


> One of USFS Notifications for the Middle Fork.
> 
> 
> Middle Fork boaters have reported the following hazards to the River Office this season:
> 4/19/22 - Lots of wood in Marsh Creek. Tree in left channel at First Bend. River-wide tree at Hells Half Mile. River-wide tree below Sater Cabin.


Does anyone know if this a portage for rafts???


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## GROH

sbarker said:


> Well..........I follow this closely. We got a team for May 17th. Not too optimistic. The SWE is the highest I have seen this time of year. I did hear someone report that on this sight that a team was digging in on May 14th, but I can't find it. Normal years my motivation would be high to get it open, not looking good. Will keep this group posted on our efforts. Carvedog, let us know if you get up there. Thanks for the help.


Will you run Marsh instead, and have you heard of conditions? Running a May 28th launch and ready to run Marsh and Dagger if need be. Thanks for all your posts!


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## codycleve

Here is a short video from one of the guide owners here from April 7th.. shows some of the wood in marsh and log in hells half mile. Not my video. https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10220047700559426&id=1131450850


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## sbarker

GROH said:


> Will you run Marsh instead, and have you heard of conditions? Running a May 28th launch and ready to run Marsh and Dagger if need be. Thanks for all your posts!


No marsh this year........too much wood for rafts


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## sbarker

Where is Sater Cabin?


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## Dangerfield

I tried to check and the only reference was that the Middle Fork Lodge restored it. It could also be commonly known as the Little Creek Guard Station. Possibly close to them? I would call the USFS Middle Fork Office.


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## codycleve

I would guess it's the cabin right after STATE land right camp. Right by the bridge. Close enough to middle fork lodge is at the end of their airstrip. There was a river wide log around the corner last summer at hood ranch


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## Dangerfield

USFS will attempt to pinpiont bettter. They are just reporting from what they have been informed of - second hand.


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## Conundrum

Wasn’t there a pic from last year fall of a river wide log in the shoals below MF lodge somewhere? Same log maybe?


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## codycleve

Yes and it was late in the season. No real water to move it. Aireal view of where last year's log was and cabin in question.


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## codycleve

found the thread with a pic of that pondo in the river from last year Boundary Fire


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## Wadeinthewater

sbarker said:


> Where is Sater Cabin?


Little Creek Guard Station is owned by the USFS. I believe "Stater" is referring to the cabin owned by Idaho Fish and Game that is located about 100 yards upstream of the position of the log indicated on the aerial photo.


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## Dangerfield

The irony is pretty funny. At this point it's easier to locate the tree than the cabin that locates it. I "almost" hope it's still there so I can visit the cabin.


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## sbarker

Sater Cabin is below Sunflower and above Jackass.....couple of guides cut a hole in the middle of it. It's passable in rafts and kayaks with an easy move as long as your paying attention. Should wash out in a couple of days.


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## Dangerfield

Hope it doesn’t move to a blind corner and create a worse hazard. Thunder storms and blow outs could be bad in the future from the many drainages that were scorched last year.


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## MT4Runner

Dangerfield said:


> Hope it doesn’t move to a blind corner and create a worse hazard. Thunder storms and blow outs could be bad in the future from the many drainages that were scorched last year.


Not the first tree in the river, won't be the last. It's certain to move in the next couple weeks.

Yeah, as you noted, with the mass of trees that will fall in the river in the next 3-4 years following last year's fires a few will be problems for sure.


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## Dangerfield

Not a road report but Rec.gov re-posted updated notifications of USFS information on the M.F. permit page for Middle Fork & Marsh today as follows,


Middle Fork boaters have reported the following hazards to the River Office this season:
4/19/22 - "Lots of wood in Marsh Creek. Tree in left channel at First Bend. River-wide tree at Hells Half Mile. River-wide tree below Sater Cabin." [FS note: Sater Cabin is just below Little Creek Guard Station.]
4/29/22 - "Trees below Indian Creek were no problem. No problems at all."
5/5/22 - The River Office has continued to get reports that Marsh Creek has more wood than in the past. Expect to portage.
Also, the river is on the rise finally.


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## tBatt

Had some friends just run a self support kayak Middle Fork trip from Marsh. Definitely not feasible in a big raft rig.









Brooke Hess on Instagram: "The most intense class 2 whitewater of my life 😳 Marsh Creek is full of wood this year from last season’s fires! It’s definitely doable, but bring your A team and expect to portage your face off. Thanks @davegardnercreative for being our third. Setting safety and portaging loaded long boats was definitely easier with three people to help out. We took off the Middle Fork Salmon yesterday, skied the headwaters of the Main Salmon today, and launch on the headwaters of the Main Salmon tomorrow for @salmonsourcetosea 🙌"


Brooke Hess shared a post on Instagram: "The most intense class 2 whitewater of my life 😳 Marsh Creek is full of wood this year from last season’s fires! It’s definitely doable, but bring your A team and expect to portage your face off. Thanks @davegardnercreative for being our third. Setting...




www.instagram.com


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## BenSlaughter

Brutal....


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## Pinchecharlie

Yeah that's a young person's game lol. Why not just fly in? Isn't it only a day different? It's still winter up there !


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## Idahopotato

MF/MAIN Salmon, Hells Canyon, and Selway River Trip Information | Facebook Boundary Rd turnoff on May 7th


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## Infidien

tBatt said:


> Had some friends just run a self support kayak Middle Fork trip from Marsh. Definitely not feasible in a big raft rig.


Do you know what day they launched?


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## UseTheSpinMove

Idahopotato said:


> Boundary Rd turnoff on May 7th


I can't seem get in to see that photo without a facebook account. But if anybody has that photo or any others this spring, I'd love to see them. Cheers!


----------



## tBatt

Infidien said:


> Do you know what day they launched?


Weds 5/4


----------



## Infidien

tBatt said:


> Weds 5/4


So before the spike - 4.75' at MF Lodge. I'm wondering if Marsh Creek got any flush out of that. Hoping for another trip report before 5/22.


----------



## TheKrux

2 days ago..you can get about 80' and then snow as far as the eye can see


----------



## Pinchecharlie

Whoa! Going to be a good year up there!! We got hammered last night too. Be a good year for fall low water maybe? Wonder if a selway paddle cat trip should be organized ?


----------



## tBatt

Pinchecharlie said:


> Yeah that's a young person's game lol. Why not just fly in? Isn't it only a day different? It's still winter up there !


Momma didn't raise no rich bitch.

Marsh creek is 18 miles to Boundary launch and another 25 to Indian. I think they did a 3 day self support.


----------



## sfluckiger

[ADMIN NOTE - USER STARTED A SEPARATE THREAD ON THIS TOPIC, THREADS MERGED]
Is it too early to start the Boundary Creek launch road condition thread? For the locals up there, what are your projections. It seems as though the snow is sticking around a bit longer, at least relative to last year at this time. We have a June 5th launch.

Thanks!


----------



## JakeH

Check out this thread:








Boundary Creek Road Opening Date 2022?


found the thread with a pic of that pondo in the river from last year Boundary Fire




www.mountainbuzz.com


----------



## Riverwild

You got a good bit yet to go. But seems like Idaho is staying cold for now. Your date is gonna be real tight for Boundary. 128% of normal today, my guess is you might be flying in if it continues to stay cold. SWE at Banner is 21" today. I may be wrong but I think when it gets around 11 you can dig your way in. @carvedog would know. Good Luck!


----------



## Nanko

Anyone have further info on this (from the USGS gauge webpage)?

*“Due to the loss of ability to access this site, this gage will potentially be discontinued between late May and July of 2022.”*


----------



## tBatt

That’s kinda fucked. Looks like the MF Shoup gauge doesn’t have any warnings though. 
Anyways, I’m on my way to open the road. I’m sure this isn’t what the FS means when they say no heavy equipment.


----------



## carvedog

What an epic spring. So much white manna falling on us now. I know it puts some spring trips in challenging and uncharted territory, but the earth and river love to flex. So on a normal dry winter a June 5th wouldn't have trouble driving in. but here we are. The long range forecasts don't look particularly warm either and with more moisture. Also to have a wood moving flush we need a fullish snowpack and a regular warming to hot trend to bring a decent peak. I don't think we will see that. Obviously there will be a decent rise and flush of some kind but man Marsh is looking ugly. I know trips are launching with saws and rigging to maybe clear a better path, but that is tough, dangerous work and I hope everyone stays safe.


----------



## craven_morhead

I figured we wouldn't have any trouble with a June 10 launch. Now things are looking tighter than expected.


----------



## TFVandal

2014 had similar snow depth and SWE at Banner around this time, opened up May 29 that year, never know.


----------



## Thrillhouse16

tBatt said:


> That’s kinda fucked. Looks like the MF Shoup gauge doesn’t have any warnings though.
> Anyways, I’m on my way to open the road. I’m sure this isn’t what the FS means when they say no heavy equipment.


GO tBatt! Will chip in fuel money to open the road up if ya need any!


----------



## Dangerfield

Nanko said:


> Anyone have further info on this (from the USGS gauge webpage)?
> 
> *“Due to the loss of ability to access this site, this gage will potentially be discontinued between late May and July of 2022.”*


Working on an answer. Will post information if/when I receive it.


----------



## cadster

TFVandal said:


> 2014 had similar snow depth and SWE at Banner around this time, opened up May 29 that year, never know.


2014 melted out close to normal. Outlooks are for continued below normal temps and above normal precip for rest of May. Look at 2011 for an example of a delayed melt.


----------



## tBatt

Nanko said:


> Anyone have further info on this (from the USGS gauge webpage)?
> 
> *“Due to the loss of ability to access this site, this gage will potentially be discontinued between late May and July of 2022.”*


This has disappeared from the gauge page. Interesting.


----------



## BenSlaughter

cadster said:


> 2014 melted out close to normal. Outlooks are for continued below normal temps and above normal precip for rest of May. Look at 2011 for an example of a delayed melt.


2011 was great! We snagged a MF trip in late July at ~3’. One of the funner MF trips I've ever done! Hot n sunny, but still nice flow. Horseflies were cocksuckers (cockbiters??), though!
I doubt it repeats to that extent this year, but June could be fabulous!


----------



## Dangerfield

tBatt said:


> This has disappeared from the gauge page. Interesting.


Noticed that also. I bet the call's started to flood in on that one and I know of 2 that asked the Boise USGS field office what's up.


----------



## tBatt

cadster said:


> 2014 melted out close to normal. Outlooks are for continued below normal temps and above normal precip for rest of May. Look at 2011 for an example of a delayed melt.


2011 (Blue line), although a later melt, had a significantly better winter.


----------



## TFVandal

cadster said:


> 2014 melted out close to normal. Outlooks are for continued below normal temps and above normal precip for rest of May. Look at 2011 for an example of a delayed melt.


2011 had 29.9 SWE and 69" snow depth on 5/12.


----------



## Pinchecharlie

And now? Sorry not paying attention!


----------



## tBatt

47” snow 21” SWE
Banner Summit Snotel


----------



## cadster

TFVandal said:


> 2011 had 29.9 SWE and 69" snow depth on 5/12.


This spring is being compared to 2011 in terms of April and May weather. Not expecting as much runoff as then, just seems your belief of the road opening by 5/29 is overly optimistic.


----------



## TFVandal

cadster said:


> This spring is being compared to 2011 in terms of April and May weather. Not expecting as much runoff as then, just seems your belief of the road opening by 5/29 is overly optimistic.


Just looking at similar years, could be a chance, but looking more like first week of June


----------



## foreigner

The road will open by end of May 🧞‍♂️


----------



## 572engr

MT4Runner said:


> Am told that 11" SWE at Banner is the time it generally gets opened.
> Look at past years with similar curves. We had a 5/15 launch in 2015, but snowpack was in the upper 70% range.
> Now that March is pretty well past, the chance of any significant accumulation is low, so it's just a matter of how fast it melts or if there's any high elevation rain.
> 
> I'll say you have a 60% chance of driving into Boundary.


Guides going in 6-8


----------



## GratefulHeads

There are 3 of us putting on Sunday for the 3M. Some info I heard from a recent trip: lots of wood in Marsh but only a couple of mandatory portages. Lots of wood in Dagger, nastier than usual. Good luck to other folks and see you on the river!


----------



## trevorhaagenson

Dangerfield said:


> Working on an answer. Will post information if/when I receive it.


It appears the legacy gauge and website are being replaced with a different type of gauge and or webpage. I read a bit about it but still a bit unclear. It appears we’ll still have flow info….


----------



## foreigner

Curious.. if you run Marsh Creek, how does that affect your permit date? Are you supposed to enter the Middle Fork on the day of your launch from Marsh Creek or what?

nm. Found the answer:



> Permits are required to be on the waters of the Middle Fork of the Salmon River, starting at Dagger Falls. These are required year-round and can be reserved at Recreation.gov. When selecting the launch date, use the first day you will start on the permitted section, below Dagger Falls, not when you plan on launching from Marsh Creek.


----------



## GROH

oooh a nice 65 degrees in Stanley today! Lets get that Boundary road open!!


----------



## Thrillhouse16

Dear Gods of the river,
Plzzzz open the road
-thanks


----------



## JakeH

GROH said:


> oooh a nice 65 degrees in Stanley today! Lets get that Boundary road open!!


forecast has snow later in the week. And nighttime temps in the 20’s. Fingers are crossed however.


----------



## TheKrux

I have a May 28th launch, not looking to good. I'm going to try and link a short video from Saturday the 14'th, a quick mission to see what was going on with the road.
Boundary Road


----------



## Nanko

Not exactly on topic, but how do you go about predicting late season flows? Is this a fool's errand, or is it just based based on high elevation pack/ total SWE? Does a late melt on a mediocre total SWE bode well for August?


----------



## TheKrux

Nanko said:


> Not exactly on topic, but how do you go about predicting late season flows? Is this a fool's errand, or is it just based based on high elevation pack/ total SWE? Does a late melt on a mediocre total SWE bode well for August?


It's pretty hard to correlate any data at this point. I have launched at 1.8'/2.2' in august on cancellations. I figure if there are still a few outfitters running w/sweeps there will be a channel open, be vigilant and look hard. I did 1.8' in an old school Puma, it was fine - a fishing trip was running 14' round boats and a sweep - but it was their last trip of the season. Start looking at trend lines mid July.


----------



## GROH

TheKrux said:


> I have a May 28th launch, not looking to good. I'm going to try and link a short video from Saturday the 14'th, a quick mission to see what was going on with the road.
> Boundary Road


Ease into that snow see how it feels get comfortable! If I was able to peek at the road I’d also peek at the campground!


----------



## GROH

Watching some incredibly soft hearted men drive up to the edge of the snow at the Boundary Creek road is driving me crazy. Leads me to believe either, one these men are transplants from California, or two I’ve been giving the people of Idaho too much credit in relation to their ruggedness! The world needs more Wyoming Cowboys! Two trucks, whiskey, beer, and a tow strap! I’d do it for fun, I’d do it for free, by god I’d do it for America !!


----------



## Redcatr

GROH said:


> Watching some incredibly soft hearted men drive up to the edge of the snow at the Boundary Creek road is driving me crazy. Leads me to believe either, one these men are transplants from California, or two I’ve been giving the people of Idaho too much credit in relation to their ruggedness! The world needs more Wyoming Cowboys! Two trucks, whiskey, beer, and a tow strap! I’d do it for fun, I’d do it for free, by god I’d do it for America !!


I may be an Oregon cowboy but would be willing to charge in there and bust through some snow this weekend. You got that good ol Wyoming truck with the tow strap and some whiskey GROH?!? Let’s giddy up and open that road
I have heard some one has driven all the way in via Selway rig with flotation tires. So maybe not too much wood if any to clear. Just that dang snow.. anyone been in on sleds for recon?


----------



## Thrillhouse16

Cowboys TAKE ME AWAY!!!! And open the Daggum road!
Wherever the Sam Hill yer from!!


----------



## GROH

Redcatr said:


> I may be an Oregon cowboy but would be willing to charge in there and bust through some snow this weekend. You got that good ol Wyoming truck with the tow strap and some whiskey GROH?!? Let’s giddy up and open that road
> I have heard some one has driven all the way in via Selway rig with flotation tires. So maybe not too much wood if any to clear. Just that dang snow.. anyone been in on sleds for recon?


I’ve got a May 28th launch and could possibly try to get up the 26th for some whiskey and wheeling! I have a feeling another crew might grow some balls before then and get er open before I get the chance. Boy those water levels are starting to look good!


----------



## Redcatr

GROH said:


> I’ve got a May 28th launch and could possibly try to get up the 26th for some whiskey and wheeling! I have a feeling another crew might grow some balls before then and get er open before I get the chance. Boy those water levels are starting to look good!


Well our launch is the 25th… but we may be working on the road on the 26th too.


----------



## tBatt

Nanko said:


> Not exactly on topic, but how do you go about predicting late season flows? Is this a fool's errand, or is it just based based on high elevation pack/ total SWE? Does a late melt on a mediocre total SWE bode well for August?


Seems like other than a stout rain storm you’re at base flows of 1.5-2’ by mid August.


----------



## Nanko

=


tBatt said:


> Seems like other than a stout rain storm you’re at base flows of 1.5-2’ by mid August.


I spend way too much time looking at Western snow/ weather data, and was wondering if there was any validity in predicting late-season flows by total SWE, melt dates, etc. Will it hit 1.6 in Sept, or July? Probably a waste of time, but an entertaining one.


----------



## Dangerfield

Big jump in flows the last 3 days and apperars to be leveling off - for now. Thunder/rain storm in one of the drainages or warmer daytime temps?


----------



## tBatt

Sounds like a healthy dose of both.

Banner Summit Trend over the last 7 days
SWE: -1.4"
Temp Change: +19°F
Precip Change: +1.1" H20 (assuming that came in as rain)
Snow Depth Change: -3"

Not necessarily road opening trend, maybe I'll get bored after dinner and search some data on that, too, but here's SWE on 5/15 at Banner vs Flow (Stage height) at MF Lodge, 6/10, 6/15.


----------



## Redcatr

Photo from the road today. I did not take this so not sure, but beleive it was today.


----------



## Infidien

Here's a little research I did on previous year's opening dates (mostly from these threads):


YearOpening DateSWE20215/142.720205/167.720195/2710.820185/215.920176/170 (needed road repair)20165/156.120155/18020145/286.


----------



## BenSlaughter

Two weeks, I'd say. 

Best case.


----------



## tBatt

We have an army of MF hungry troops ready to go with Whisky and Shovels 6/7 if need be.


----------



## Count Me In

Infidien said:


> Here's a little research I did on previous year's opening dates (mostly from these threads):
> 
> 
> YearOpening DateSWE20215/142.720205/167.720195/2710.820185/215.920176/170 (needed road repair)20165/156.120155/18020145/286.


Wow! Thank you for sharing that. I have wanted to see that but just been too busy to put in my own due diligence. The peak that just came off is going to drop pretty quick. MHO. It may level off in a "step" up from the last spike. We are warming, but not significant. I live close to McCall. I have heard that La Nina is increasing, which may bode a continued cool spring. I am at my dinner table watching the snow on Tamarack not really melt but sort of just recede up the mountain. I asked a friend who runs the snow removal for Tamarack about his thoughts for run off as he is responsible for keeping drainage flowing and his thoughts are that the ground is dry and if we don't get temp spikes, the water may just go in to the round. I have been watching the Banner swe daily since feb. With all that I have read here from Carvedog and others I just don't see the road opening before June 1 at best. It might be longer. With reports of lots of wood in Marsh, i start to think a unusual winter might have dropped a avi or two on the road. All that said, god speed to all who try!


----------



## foreigner

Road will open by end of May. That shit is melting quick. 🧞‍♀️🧞‍♂️🧞‍♀️


----------



## GROH

Redcatr said:


> Photo from the road today. I did not take this so not sure, but beleive it was today.
> View attachment 76837
> 
> View attachment 76836





Redcatr said:


> Photo from the road today. I did not take this so not sure, but beleive it was today.
> View attachment 76837
> 
> View attachment 76836


Totally doable!!


----------



## jkisraft

Infidien said:


> Here's a little research I did on previous year's opening dates (mostly from these threads):
> 
> 
> YearOpening DateSWE20215/142.720205/167.720195/2710.820185/215.920176/170 (needed road repair)20165/156.120155/18020145/286.


----------



## jkisraft

We launched May 19, 2018. SWE was 7.5 at start of the day and dropped to 6.7 at end of day. Snow depth was 18"-16". In 2019 my notes say road opened May 27 with work. That year SWE at start of the day was 10.8 and end of the day 9.8. Snow depth was 23-21 inches. Depending on weather in the next few days could possibly open by the end of next week with effort.Snow levels are predicted to stay above 7500 feet I believe. Overnight temps above freezing are the key to quicker melt out. My two cents.


----------



## Idahopotato

Is this based on SWE on Banner Summit?


----------



## Dangerfield

tBatt said:


> We have an army of MF hungry troops ready to go with Whisky and Shovels 6/7 if need be.


Probably preaching to the choir but, don't let the permit holder do ANY work on the road that might injure/incapacitate them. You all need at least one supervisor - correct?
In an extreme case you might have to do a version of the "Weekend at Bernies" to get on the river.


----------



## Pinchecharlie

Why not one of these lol!?


----------



## tBatt

Dangerfield said:


> Probably preaching to the choir but, don't let the permit holder do ANY work on the road that might injure/incapacitate them. You all need at least one supervisor - correct?
> In an extreme case you might have to do a version of the "Weekend at Bernies" to get on the river.
> 
> View attachment 76867


I am not the permit holder but I’ve been doing snow removal at a ski area that averages 500+ inches of snow a year for a decade.

depending on how things look maybe I’ll head up Friday 6/3


----------



## jkisraft

Idahopotato said:


> Is this based on SWE on Banner Summit?


Yes.


----------



## cadster

Greater SWE now than either 2014 or 2019.


----------



## BenSlaughter

Well....better for the date, but far lower than the season peak.


----------



## TFVandal

cadster said:


> Greater SWE now than either 2014 or 2019.
> View attachment 76932
> 
> [/QUO


----------



## cadster

BenSlaughter said:


> Well....better for the date, but far lower than the season peak.


 My intuition is that season SWE peak affects late season flow more than the peak flow. Flow hit 5.3' today and still most likely peak forecast is 5.5'. 2019's peak was 6.6' and 2014 was 7.0' so maybe not. Still the longer the snow lasts the faster it should to melt.


----------



## Whitewater Worthy Equip

Drain you cooler!!! Stay away from people that row pins and clips and buy a breakdown frame and you can skip all this shit and fly to IC. There would sure be a lot less permit cancelations. Or you could spend a 1/4 of your life perseverating on this topic. Do what feels good to you boo.


----------



## GROH

Whitewater Worthy Equip said:


> Drain you cooler!!! Stay away from people that row pins and clips and buy a breakdown frame and you can skip all this shit and fly to IC. There would sure be a lot less permit cancelations. Or you could spend a 1/4 of your life perseverating on this topic. Do what feels good to you boo.


A lot of fun between Boundary Creek and Indian creek.


----------



## Redcatr

Pinchecharlie said:


> Why not one of these lol!?
> View attachment 76868


I wouldn't be surprised if that is what has laid the tracks on the road already..
Who ever owns this rig could be a rich guy these next couple weeks running guys and gear from HWY21 to Boundary.. JMO


----------



## skivan

Pinchecharlie said:


> Why not one of these lol!?
> View attachment 76868


another idea @2:39 here:


----------



## Pinchecharlie

Yeah us guys need to nut up


----------



## Katboater

Nm


----------



## BenSlaughter




----------



## gregoriorossini

If anyone goes beyond that parking lot at HWY21 within the next 5ish days with some insight to what's beyond the first 200 meters... I have a loaded school bus with chains and 20ppl ready to try and dig & cut their way to a May30th put in.


----------



## athelake

These were posted on the MF/Main Salmon, Hells Canyon and Selway River Trip Information group on FB. They were taken on Marsh on May 14.

"There are several things in kayaking that scare the shit out of me. One of them is wood in the river. The Marsh Creek section had 6 wood portages and a hand full of holy crap moments. This was one of those holy crap moments. The video really doesn't do justice to the gradient of the river."










There are several things in kayaking that scare the shit out of me. One of them is wood in the river. The Marsh Creek section had 6 wood portages and a... | By Cody | Facebook


၂.၉ထောင် views, ၃၀ likes, ၃ loves, ၂၃ comments, ၁၅ shares, Facebook Watch Videos from Cody Redmond: There are several things in kayaking that scare the shit out of me. One of them is wood in the...




fb.watch


----------



## jkisraft

A lot of that wood will have moved since the 14th given an increase in flow of nearly 3,500 cfs at the lodge. To where? A new problem spot? Or it likely has cleaned up some.


----------



## GratefulHeads

Just got off marsh-middle-main. Put on the 15th, took off the 19th. Marsh was the usual, managed to do it with no portages but there was a bit of log limbo. Good flows on the MF. 2 logs in the left side of Dagger. Don’t take a raft down Marsh, though. A bunch of rafters flew into Indian Creek, thanks for the beers!


----------



## trl81z

gregoriorossini said:


> If anyone goes beyond that parking lot at HWY21 within the next 5ish days with some insight to what's beyond the first 200 meters... I have a loaded school bus with chains and 20ppl ready to try and dig & cut their way to a May30th put in.


If you get it open by the 28th we have a launch date and we will pay you for the plane flight we would have to take.


----------



## gregoriorossini

trl81z said:


> If you get it open by the 28th we have a launch date and we will pay you for the plane flight we would have to take.


Wish I could get it open by then. We would be rolling up on the 28th, most people coming from CO. Anyone locally trying to make $$$?


----------



## Redcatr

Does anybody on live in or near Stanley? Did it snow up there any of the past few nights adding to the snow on the road? It looks like we have another few nights below freezing up there but hopefully no more moisture.


----------



## IDriverRunner

Redcatr said:


> Does anybody on live in or near Stanley? Did it snow up there any of the past few nights adding to the snow on the road? It looks like we have another few nights below freezing up there but hopefully no more moisture.


Here is a link that shows webcams in Stanley. It's looking pretty good up there!








Live Webcams - Stanley Sawtooth Chamber of Commerce


City of Stanley City Clerk / Treasurer P.O. Box 53 / Highway 21 Stanley , ID 83278 Tel: 208-774-2286 Fax: 208-774-2278 Office Hours: Summer – Monday thru Thursday 8 AM – 5 PM, Winter – Monday thru Thursday 9:30 AM – 5PM Stanley City Website Mayor and City Council: City Council Meetings are held...




stanleycc.org


----------



## codycleve

Fresh snow around salmon last 2 days.


----------



## Andy H.

skivan said:


> another idea @2:39 here:


That may be good in powder, but the thought of dragging a boat over frozen corn snow brings to mind all the raspberries I've seen when folks skiing spring snow in shorts take a fall. You might be seeing scrim pretty quick.


----------



## madpaddlermike

Drove through Stanley from Boise today. Getting closer but still a fair amount of snow within a few hundred yards of the turnoff. It was about 55 degrees in Stanley.


----------



## Dangerfield

madpaddlermike said:


> Drove through Stanley from Boise today. Getting closer but still a fair amount of snow within a few hundred yards of the turnoff. It was about 55 degrees in Stanley.


That's a pretty exposed road start, so beyond in areas of tree canopy and shade from southern mountanis/terrain you can count on deeper snow for a longer duration. Before long there will be dust and vehicles to deal with.


----------



## Warwick

Just got off Marsh - Middle. Just over 5' when put on 19th, so able to float over most logs. Had to cut out a couple but no portages with two 16' cats and one 15' cat. Dagger clear of logs and no problems from boundary on down. Big log below little creek guard station from last fall is on bank now.


----------



## Warwick

Bring your A game if rafting Marsh. We met a group that had been in there 3 days and still hadn't made it to Bear Creek confluence.


----------



## trl81z

Warwick said:


> Bring your A game if rafting Marsh. We met a group that had been in there 3 days and still hadn't made it to Bear Creek confluence.


launching the 28th maybe 27th if we do marsh if the flow is lower would it be a no go for ya or just have to cut some more wood? Would love any info you got on it.
Thanks


----------



## GROH

trl81z said:


> launching the 28th maybe 27th if we do marsh if the flow is lower would it be a no go for ya or just have to cut some more wood? Would love any info you got on it.
> Thanks


Launching the same day, but we are driving/digging into Boundary the 27th....Join us!


----------



## Katboater

GROH said:


> Launching the same day, but we are driving/digging into Boundary the 27th....Join us!


When you plan on being there on the 27th?


----------



## Dangerfield

This recently posted on the rec.gov notifications for the Middle Fork (USFS).

5/20/22 - From a group of rafters regarding running Marsh Creek: "It is doable, but groups should expect to portage often and should plan to take their time getting down. Be extremely cautious. One boat lost to a puncture. Would not advise folks who are inexperienced to try it."


----------



## GROH

Katboater said:


> When you plan on being there on the 27th?


Leaving home around 5am should put us there around noon.


----------



## jmcdannel

Katboater and I plus 4 or 5 others will likely be there either late the 26th or early the 27th to try and get through.


----------



## Warwick

trl81z said:


> launching the 28th maybe 27th if we do marsh if the flow is lower would it be a no go for ya or just have to cut some more wood? Would love any info you got on it.
> Thanks


I wouldn't do Marsh if flow lower than 5 feet because there were a lot of trees we floated over no problem, but would be problem at 4 or maybe even 4-1/2.


----------



## GROH

jmcdannel said:


> Katboater and I plus 4 or 5 others will likely be there either late the 26th or early the 27th to try and get through.


Ill have chansaws, kinetic tow straps with soft shackles, shovels, static tow straps, beer, whiskey, and of course the DURAMAX rolling some fresh mud terrains!


----------



## Dangerfield

2022 "dig-out" documentary expected, with awards ceremony depending on outcome.

Edit: I wish the group well and above all, be safe out there.


----------



## middleforkpassion

jmcdannel said:


> Katboater and I plus 4 or 5 others will likely be there either late the 26th or early the 27th to try and get through.
> I am going with a commercial launch May 30 and REALLY want to go from Boundary. Is there a way I can help? Don't have a vehicle with high enough center; Have a chainsaw and shovel--and a propane camp stove and can prepare meals for the crew. Joyce


----------



## Katboater

GROH said:


> Ill have chansaws, kinetic tow straps with soft shackles, shovels, static tow straps, beer, whiskey, and of course the DURAMAX rolling some fresh mud terrains!


Who are u using for shuttle?


----------



## cadster

middleforkpassion said:


> I am going with a commercial launch May 30 and REALLY want to go from Boundary. Is there a way I can help? Don't have a vehicle with high enough center; Have a chainsaw and shovel--and a propane camp stove and can prepare meals for the crew. Joyce


Curious who's the outfitter for your trip and what have they been telling you about whether your launch will happen?


----------



## GROH

Katboater said:


> Who are u using for shuttle?


 All Rivers Shuttles


----------



## middleforkpassion

cadster said:


> Curious who's the outfitter for your trip and what have they been telling you about whether your launch will happen?





cadster said:


> Curious who's the outfitter for your trip and what have they been telling you about whether your launch will happen?


I have checked with several official and unofficial sources. No one seems to know the status. Guess they are waiting for the road to magically open itself.


----------



## cadster

Banner Summit dropped 4" SWE in the last week. Needs to drop another 4" to get to 10" SWE which has meant an open road previously. FB post states River Ranger planning to try getting to BC on the 1st which could coincide with 10".


----------



## GROH

Infidien said:


> Here's a little research I did on previous year's opening dates (mostly from these threads):
> 
> 
> YearOpening DateSWE20215/142.720205/167.720195/2710.820185/215.920176/170 (needed road repair)20165/156.120155/18020145/286.


did you find any beta on 2012? Just curious as some older posts indicated people were able to dig in with a Banner SWE around 13? Cool little chart though appreciate the info!


----------



## Hainleyd

Good luck and god speed. Does anyone know if someone will post here if they are successful? We have a permit launch for 6/1 and are all on the edge of our seats.


----------



## cadster

Hainleyd said:


> Good luck and god speed. Does anyone know if someone will post here if they are successful? We have a permit launch for 6/1 and are all on the edge of our seats.


Try contacting All River Shuttles. Posts above states they are being used for an attempted BC launch on Saturday. They also have an active FB page: Log into Facebook

Webpage: http://allriversshuttle.com/


----------



## jmcdannel

Hainleyd said:


> Good luck and god speed. Does anyone know if someone will post here if they are successful? We have a permit launch for 6/1 and are all on the edge of our seats.


I'll send you a message via inReach when I get to Boundary creek tomorrow to the 1st one to DM me your phone #. Then it's on you to update this thread. I also know someone going in today to help clear the road and he will be getting word out to me tonight about the status.


----------



## Dangerfield

A+ for enthusiasm & positivity - hope it works out.


----------



## Hainleyd

jmcdannel said:


> I'll send you a message via inReach when I get to Boundary creek tomorrow to the 1st one to DM me your phone #. Then it's on you to update this thread. I also know someone going in today to help clear the road and he will be getting word out to me tonight about the status.





jmcdannel said:


> I'll send you a message via inReach when I get to Boundary creek tomorrow to the 1st one to DM me your phone #. Then it's on you to update this thread. I also know someone going in today to help clear the road and he will be getting word out to me tonight about the status.


DM sent. I’ll keep everyone updated


----------



## knute51

Word is the forest service plowed in to boundary creek last night to aid in the recovery of the boater that drown. So apparently the road is clear. We have a guy driving over this morning to double check.


----------



## Dangerfield

knute51 said:


> Word is the forest service plowed in to boundary creek last night to aid in the recovery of the boater that drown. So apparently the road is clear. We have a guy driving over this morning to double check.


If that is the case, the reason really bites. I am guessing here that the authorities are going to have priority for access and setting up for their recovery efforts. They might not want any other floaters in the area until they accomplish their mission. Flows are climbing steadily and are at approx. 5.75'.


----------



## Dangerfield

knute51 said:


> Word is the forest service plowed in to boundary creek last night to aid in the recovery of the boater that drown. So apparently the road is clear. We have a guy driving over this morning to double check.


FAKE NEWS!

I can dispel the rumor that the USFS plowed open the road and it's open to Boundary. They did not or would not do that - straight from the USFS.

Possibly somebody else attempted it, but without big equipment it's questionable.


----------



## BenSlaughter

Yeah, I would be somewhat surprised if any agency went to heroic measures for corpse recovery. It's unfortunate, but just doesn't make practical sense.
Anyone remember the gal who died in Blossom Bar maybe a dozen years ago? Her body was there for something like 3 weeks, if memory serves, while they waited for the water level to drop.


----------



## PDXposter

Dangerfield said:


> Possibly somebody else attempted it, but without big equipment it's questionable.


Yeah, I wish the dig crew the best, but I've got to think some of those north facing hillsides are going to have A LOT of snow to move. One year we had to wait a couple days for the road grader to get its starter fixed so it could clear up to the pass and we could drive into the Selway. I remember thinking "oh we can do this" and then we walked a mile of snowy road and realized we'd need an army to shovel that out, or one BIG chained-up grader! Fortunately after the grader cleared up to the pass and we passed it, there was just one puckering snow section, and it was downhill.

Still, digging in the snow with your friends can be a fun time, hope they take lots of pics and let us all know how it goes!


----------



## knute51

knute51 said:


> Word is the forest service plowed in to boundary creek last night to aid in the recovery of the boater that drown. So apparently the road is clear. We have a guy driving over this morning to double check.


So found this to not be the case. My friend said that it is not plowed and not open. He said there is still quite a bit of snow in the road. Sorry for the false alarm.


----------



## Rivernerd

knute51 said:


> So found this to not be the case. My friend said that it is not plowed and not open. He said there is still quite a bit of snow in the road. Sorry for the false alarm.


Yup. The reports of plowing are false. Drove to the turnoff today, and went as far as practicable with chains in 4WLo. About 1 mile from the turnoff, the snow is still way too deep to drive through. Estimate at least another mile of snow, all the way across the road and up to 14" deep, before you can reach Cape Horn Summit.


----------



## Dangerfield

jmcdannel said:


> Katboater and I plus 4 or 5 others will likely be there either late the 26th or early the 27th to try and get through.





jmcdannel said:


> I'll send you a message via inReach when I get to Boundary creek tomorrow to the 1st one to DM me your phone #. Then it's on you to update this thread. I also know someone going in today to help clear the road and he will be getting word out to me tonight about the status.


*Any updates from the crew?*


----------



## Pinchecharlie

If it's so important to so many why not hire a local guy to go do it? I have a small tractor with a 8 foot snowblower at work sure other guys do too! ?


----------



## Dangerfield

If folks don't want to do a high water float, rushing in there before a semi natural road melt off dosen't make much sense. It might make people greedy for an early trip that they actually might not be fully prepared for.
Current conditions - only getting more intense for who know's much higher/longer














.


----------



## Pinchecharlie

Yeah its on now. I'd say that would be big and fast and dirty! Lochsa went from 9k-18k in three days! Good thing my truck broke!! Lol


----------



## tBatt

This probably isn't going to help them.


----------



## Dangerfield

There's already been a fatality on the MF recently and wood will be constantly moving and potentially creating hazards that might not be easily avoided. 

It's reallly unfoutunate for the family of the deceased rafter not to have his body retrieved while it was located a few days ago. Now they will probably be in extreme agony not knowing where he is in the future. Hard to imagine what they are going thru.


----------



## Rivernerd

Pinchecharlie said:


> If it's so important to so many why not hire a local guy to go do it? I have a small tractor with a 8 foot snowblower at work sure other guys do too! ?


Using anything other than a truck and shovels to clear the Boundary Creek road is prohibited by Forest Service policy, unless a huge "road damage" bond is posted. A guy tried it once without posting the bond, and got fined. And, the Forest Service threatened to close the road. Not a good idea.

There is lots of debris in the snow, including rocks and fallen limbs. You would go through lots of shear pins with a snowblower (don't ask me how I know, using a walk-behind 24" snowblower a few years ago. But, a loader would work--if you can afford the bond.


----------



## BenSlaughter

Highest peak in a couple years. It'll be rearranging lotsa the logs in the river. Especially after last year's fires. Gonna be sketchy for a bit. Probably good the road isn't open...


----------



## Dangerfield

Rivernerd said:


> Using anything other than a truck and shovels to clear the Boundary Creek road is prohibited by Forest Service policy, unless a huge "road damage" bond is posted. A guy tried it once without posting the bond, and got fined. And, the Forest Service threatened to close the road. Not a good idea.
> 
> There is lots of debris in the snow, including rocks and fallen limbs. You would go through lots of shear pins with a snowblower (don't ask me how I know, using a walk-behind 24" snowblower a few years ago. But, a loader would work--if you can afford the bond.


Been there done that on the legal side, on a different USFS road/state. 23 hours in a D-5 on an 8 mile road with some clear sections is not enjoyable. 26 miles into Boundary is hard for me to fathom. Not exact conditions but not an apples to oranges comparison either.

Edit,
Stipulations I had to deal with were to leave a "buffer' level of snow over the surface of about 6". Thats really hard to do when you can't see the base surface. Any damage caused was to be repaired by me. Also, when the middle of the road is opened up and melts down fast to the soft surface, the berms on the sides melt un-naturally fast and tend to run down or pool in the middle of the road creating the potential of erosion and pot holes.


----------



## BenSlaughter

Anyone know how much the bond is?
One assumes it gets refunded so long as the road isn't too beat up...


----------



## athelake

Mi'chelle from All Rivers Shuttle posted this on her FB page.

"With The Middle Fork running 6.5' ish maybe it's a blessing in disguise that the road won't be open for a bit. I am hearing rumors that it's open, but according to the rangers - that is not true.
Snow is predicted in Stanley, Sunday and Monday 80-90% as well, so factor that in as well, if you are helping dig out the road.
I have retired forest service personnel who plowed many many roads on our rivers that we run now and they tell me if someone goes in with equipment and ruins the road they are looking at up to 10K fines. We are not talking about a few miles of road. There is much road that doesnt get any sun exposure. Its not just snow on the road either. There are logs, rocks, debris. It's great to bring shovels and ropes, but a chainsaw is what we bring every trip! - We've gone in and the road was open, and then pick up rigs and come out and voila - new trees have fallen!
The Selway is running very high as well, so I hope everyone running these early trips is honest about their abilities and is watching levels because they can rise so fast.
For those wanting to camp at Island Bar in Riggins, Idaho for the holiday - it is completely covered.
There is some log debris coming down the Lower Salmon into White Bird, and today at 52,k it will be like this for a bit I imagine. There may be a lil drop into the mid 30's by Wednesday but then the end of the week, right back up there to 50k levels.
Mother Nature's Colonic is about to begin.
Have a safe Memorial Day Weekend everyone!"


----------



## Raft Dad

Any updates? Buddy scored a June 5 cancellation. Carvedog usually has some accurate local intel. Anybody?


----------



## Redcatr

Raft Dad said:


> Any updates? Buddy scored a June 5 cancellation. Carvedog usually has some accurate local intel. Anybody?


You guys are going to be on the bubble. An outfitter told one of the guys on my group that they have committed to flying in on the 5th. We had a 25th launch that we had to cancel. But went up and ran the upper Main north of Stanley this weekend. The road still had a fair amount of snow on it. And it has been cold for the past couple days, snowing above 6000 feet. So what snow is up there is sticking around and maybe being added to. Unfortunately. The forecast has some warmth this week but cooling and precipitation coming this weekend. What a year! Ugh!! Best of luck if you can get in there.


----------



## bsimcoe

Carvedog is on an adventure so we won't be hearing from him for a few more days. I have a June 4th launch and most years a June 4th is not an issue, this year is way different than anything I've seen. The snow level in Hailey last night was around 6300 ft. Eight to ten inches on Galena Summit and probably that much or more at Banner summit. The forcast is the same for two more days. If you look at the flows in the last 48 hours the MF has dropped about 1.5 ft., meaning temps are below freezing and snow has been accumulating without runoff so if it warms up and keeps raining the river is going flush again. As for the road, after today in Hailey, I am very doubtful the road will open for at least another week. In my humble opinion of course. Be safe out there.


----------



## MT4Runner

athelake said:


> Mother Nature's Colonic is about to begin.
> Have a safe Memorial Day Weekend everyone!"


Truer words were never spoken!!


----------



## tBatt

Just got a text from my buddy who is a ranger. Road is open.


----------



## wbr1937

tBatt said:


> Just got a text from my buddy who is a ranger. Road is open.


You trolling us? Or is this for real?


----------



## tBatt




----------



## BenSlaughter

🥳


----------



## coult45

tBatt said:


> View attachment 77561


but can you really trust a guy over the internet named t3dizzle?


----------



## tBatt

Hey man that was from 2005. 
Hopefully I’ve grown up since 7th grade.
And hopefully that crazy chick isn’t still living in my woods.


----------



## coult45

tBatt said:


> Hey man that was from 2005.
> Hopefully I’ve grown up since 7th grade.
> And hopefully that crazy chick isn’t still living in my woods.


So are you going to rally for Thursday???


----------



## Conundrum

Should be a 6/3 popping up soon if it hasn't already.


----------



## Hopitrout

Just got off the river (afternoon of 5/31). I‘ll be brief as I need to get some sleep. Our party of 6, experienced Marsh Creek boaters, launched 5/26 on Marsh on a planned 4 day trip. We spent two extra days because of severe issues regarding wood in the river. 3 of our 6 catarafts got pinned to some degree in Marsh in one location. We partially cut the obstruction and lost some equipment (oars, throw lines, etc). It doesn’t matter where because it is ever changing. There is so much moving wood. We made it to the confluence of Bear Valley Creek by evening of 5/26. We intended to run Dagger the next day, as our group has only had to portage once previously because of near river wide wood blockage around the corner. Our hopes of running Dagger were dashed when we scouted around the corner and found a river wide log jam. At that point we unloaded gear and carried our cats up to the Dagger campground, knowing the location of the jam would not allow for a portage. We assumed that if the jam didn’t blow we’d have to wait till the road opened to get someone to help haul our cats to Boundary Creek. Mid morning 5/28 the left side (river left) blew out so we decided to finish our portage and re launch just below the campground.

Soon after we launched, somewhere between Boundary Creek and Murph’s Hole, we passed what we assumed to be Mr. Gray’s cataraft (the cat boater that unfortunately passed several days before). Just past Murph’s hole we encountered a very serious, very large partially submerged log that was moving vertically in the water column. As it rose up, it flipped two of us, and both of us AND our two cats ended up going under the log. I got rescued by a pal after a short but intense swim. My other pal caught his boat and using flip lines we right sided his in a small eddy further down the river. Though my boat was caught by my buddies several times, it was either released for safety (going through Velvet) or just couldn’t be held in small eddies upside down. It was finally caught, and right sided about a mile above Sheepeater in a very tight, dangerous log infested quagmire. It was beat up pretty bad including a puncture to its inner bladder (a wonderful old Aire Jag). I repaired it at Sheepeater the next day, after doing some minor repairs and temporary inflating about a half mile above the camp where we tied it off after its initial rescue the day before.

I need to also mention that there was a huge log on the rock at Velvet. It completely blocked the high water sneak on left and made it impossible to do the hard left pull around the rock to avoid the hole at Velvet. In other words you have to run the hole. We also scouted (which we never do) Pistol. It was clear but big. Below Indian Creek we had very good water, BUT there are many more logs in the river than usual AND it is ever changing now. Just because the road may open one of these days you better be prepared for very dangerous and shifting log conditions ANYWHERE. Please be careful out there.


----------



## Rockgizmo

Wow! Here’s a vid of the Velvet hole


----------



## Dangerfield

Hopitrout said:


> Just got off the river (afternoon of 5/31). I‘ll be brief as I need to get some sleep. Our party of 6 experienced Marsh Creek boaters launched 5/26 on Marsh on a planned 4 day trip. We spent two xtra days because of severe issues regarding wood in the river. 3 of our 6 catarafts got pinned to some degree in Marsh in one location. We partially cut the ......................Please be careful out there.


I might be helpful for others unaware of the dangers if you can provide first hand information to the Middle Fork Ranger Office at: [email protected]


----------



## Pinchecharlie

Maybe it's a good time to finish up that project you've been putting off..!!??


----------



## mikesee

Dangerfield said:


> I might be helpful for others unaware of the dangers if you can provide first hand information to the Middle Fork Ranger Office at: [email protected]



5 minutes after you pass each of these hazards they have already shifted, changed, evolved.

5 minutes later the whole river is different again.


----------



## Dangerfield

Correct you are. It just reinforces the dangers for those than might be clueless or not in tune with forums on the subject. Recently the USFS removed the warnings of Marsh Creek dangers and nothing is noted on their current MF "Notifications".


----------



## tBatt

coult45 said:


> So are you going to rally for Thursday???


Too rich for my blood. I think we're releasing our 6/10 launch as well. The 7/1 trip should be just fine, even if we aren't turning the corner.
Launching Friday for Cat instead.

@Dangerfield ranger office will have some firsthand reporting by Monday. Maybe some live updates if they send him with a radio or PLB.


----------



## Hopitrout

Dangerfield said:


> I might be helpful for others unaware of the dangers if you can provide first hand information to the Middle Fork Ranger Office at: [email protected]


Dangerfield we passed the info on to Audra who was running Indian Creek when we checked in, and as you suggested the MF river address and to Courtney Frost who took over for Donna with the MF Ranger District.


----------



## wbr1937

Still curious if there is confirmation of the road getting plowed. Shooting for a 6/6 launch and I need to make some changes if we can or can't get to Boundary.


----------



## tBatt

If you don’t believe the text I got from the river ranger you’re welcome to email the river office.

[email protected]

if anyone is interested in picking up our 6/10 launch PM me and I’ll get you in contact with the permit holder. I will be out of service 6/3-6/7.


----------



## foreigner

You can call them at 208-879-4101, then zero.


----------



## wbr1937

tBatt said:


> If you don’t believe the text I got from the river ranger you’re welcome to email the river office.
> 
> [email protected]
> 
> if anyone is interested in picking up our 6/10 launch PM me and I’ll get you in contact with the permit holder. I will be out of service 6/3-6/7.


Nope I believe you. Called Blackadar and they already sent a shuttle driver down into it. 

I just needed something a little more than a text message to make the moves I have to make over the next 3 days. 

Thanks though!


----------



## Dangerfield

Hopitrout said:


> Dangerfield we passed the info on to Audra who was running Indian Creek when we checked in, and as you suggested the MF river address and to Courtney Frost who took over for Donna with the MF Ranger District.


Happy to hear you made it out relatively intact and your post early this morning could potentially be a life saver. Welcome to the Buzz, you have the attention of many.


----------



## MT4Runner

Hopitrout said:


> Just got off the river (afternoon of 5/31). I‘ll be brief as I need to get some sleep.
> 
> BUT there are many more logs in the river than usual AND it is ever changing now. Just because the road may open one of these days you better be prepared for very dangerous and shifting log conditions ANYWHERE. Please be careful out there.


Agree with Dangerfield. Quite the first post, and very timely and useful safety information. WELCOME to the Buzz!
I'm not even going on the MFS this week let alone this season, and much appreciate you taking the time to post. 🍺


----------



## Hopitrout

Dangerfield said:


> Happy to hear you made it out relatively intact and your post early this morning could potentially be a life saver. Welcome to the Buzz, you have the attention of many.


Thanks Dangerfield and MT4Runner. Been a voyeur on the site for many years but only recently joined. I appreciate the sharing of information, especially the heads up on the safety stuff.


----------



## athelake

Mi'chelle from All Rivers on her FB page...

"If they can get a dozer in it's slow going - max work speed is 3 miles an hour pushing of snow.. This is not pushing rocks and debris
IF they use a motor grader, they can work it a lil bit faster, but with backing up and going forward, but once they plow the snow off, they have to allow the road to set, so it doesnt turn to crap.. so thats a few more days in addition to the week it'll take to grade it.
All depends on how much snow is on the summit and how much are in the thru cuts (shady areas and drifts)
I hope this helps to figure out logistics on people's trips.
My best guess is 2nd -3rd week of June, but hoping for the best!"


----------



## Hopitrout

And this was the log jam downstream and around the corner from Dagger Falls on Friday afternoon (5/27/22) just before it blew out (river left side) the next morning. I wouldn't be surprised if it reformed after we passed on through, so be prepared out there….


----------



## SunshineFalls11/16/19

Hopitrout said:


> Just got off the river (afternoon of 5/31). I‘ll be brief as I need to get some sleep. Our party of 6, experienced Marsh Creek boaters, launched 5/26 on Marsh on a planned 4 day trip. We spent two extra days because of severe issues regarding wood in the river. 3 of our 6 catarafts got pinned to some degree in Marsh in one location. We partially cut the obstruction and lost some equipment (oars, throw lines, etc). It doesn’t matter where because it is ever changing. There is so much moving wood. We made it to the confluence of Bear Valley Creek by evening of 5/26. We intended to run Dagger the next day, as our group has only had to portage once previously because of near river wide wood blockage around the corner. Our hopes of running Dagger were dashed when we scouted around the corner and found a river wide log jam. At that point we unloaded gear and carried our cats up to the Dagger campground, knowing the location of the jam would not allow for a portage. We assumed that if the jam didn’t blow we’d have to wait till the road opened to get someone to help haul our cats to Boundary Creek. Mid morning 5/28 the left side (river left) blew out so we decided to finish our portage and re launch just below the campground.
> 
> Soon after we launched, somewhere between Boundary Creek and Murph’s Hole, we passed what we assumed to be Mr. Gray’s cataraft (the cat boater that unfortunately passed several days before). Just past Murph’s hole we encountered a very serious, very large partially submerged log that was moving vertically in the water column. As it rose up, it flipped two of us, and both of us AND our two cats ended up going under the log. I got rescued by a pal after a short but intense swim. My other pal caught his boat and using flip lines we right sided his in a small eddy further down the river. Though my boat was caught by my buddies several times, it was either released for safety (going through Velvet) or just couldn’t be held in small eddies upside down. It was finally caught, and right sided about a mile above Sheepeater in a very tight, dangerous log infested quagmire. It was beat up pretty bad including a puncture to its inner bladder (a wonderful old Aire Jag). I repaired it at Sheepeater the next day, after doing some minor repairs and temporary inflating about a half mile above the camp where we tied it off after its initial rescue the day before.
> 
> I need to also mention that there was a huge log on the rock at Velvet. It completely blocked the high water sneak on left and made it impossible to do the hard left pull around the rock to avoid the hole at Velvet. In other words you have to run the hole. We also scouted (which we never do) Pistol. It was clear but big. Below Indian Creek we had very good water, BUT there are many more logs in the river than usual AND it is ever changing now. Just because the road may open one of these days you better be prepared for very dangerous and shifting log conditions ANYWHERE. Please be careful out there.


Was the left side of velvet completely blocked off, to where there is no possible chance of a boat going on the sneak? And were there any more rapids that were a potential hazard? I have a June 9th launch, so just trying to get as much information as possible to ensure a safe trip.


----------



## Wild_Bill

tBatt said:


> If you don’t believe the text I got from the river ranger you’re welcome to email the river office.
> 
> [email protected]
> 
> if anyone is interested in picking up our 6/10 launch PM me and I’ll get you in contact with the permit holder. I will be out of service 6/3-6/7.


For what it’s worth, Forest Service replied to an email of mine that members of the public have told them that the road is open, but they haven’t confirmed it’s open themselves.


----------



## Hopitrout

SunshineFalls11/16/19 said:


> Was the left side of velvet completely blocked off, to where there is no possible chance of a boat going on the sneak? And were there any more rapids that were a potential hazard? I have a June 9th launch, so just trying to get as much information as possible to ensure a safe trip.


SunshineFalls, yes, a large tree blocked the entire left high water sneak AND the left pull around the right hand side of the rock, leaving running the Velvet Falls hole the only option. Of the five cats still occupied and right side up at that point, all made it through the hole, but that is serious business as you likely know. There were far worse things out there then running the hole in Velvet though so pay attention to water levels and what I assume will be more current details on log movement as you get closer. The submerged log that got two of us below Murphs was very serious. Absolutely no report that you get now until the flows drop substantially should be considered current. Things were changing right in front of us. Be safe.


----------



## tetonadam

Hopitrout said:


> Just got off the river (afternoon of 5/31). I‘ll be brief as I need to get some sleep. Our party of 6, experienced Marsh Creek boaters, launched 5/26 on Marsh on a planned 4 day trip. We spent two extra days because of severe issues regarding wood in the river. 3 of our 6 catarafts got pinned to some degree in Marsh in one location. We partially cut the obstruction and lost some equipment (oars, throw lines, etc). It doesn’t matter where because it is ever changing. There is so much moving wood. We made it to the confluence of Bear Valley Creek by evening of 5/26. We intended to run Dagger the next day, as our group has only had to portage once previously because of near river wide wood blockage around the corner. Our hopes of running Dagger were dashed when we scouted around the corner and found a river wide log jam. At that point we unloaded gear and carried our cats up to the Dagger campground, knowing the location of the jam would not allow for a portage. We assumed that if the jam didn’t blow we’d have to wait till the road opened to get someone to help haul our cats to Boundary Creek. Mid morning 5/28 the left side (river left) blew out so we decided to finish our portage and re launch just below the campground.
> 
> Soon after we launched, somewhere between Boundary Creek and Murph’s Hole, we passed what we assumed to be Mr. Gray’s cataraft (the cat boater that unfortunately passed several days before). Just past Murph’s hole we encountered a very serious, very large partially submerged log that was moving vertically in the water column. As it rose up, it flipped two of us, and both of us AND our two cats ended up going under the log. I got rescued by a pal after a short but intense swim. My other pal caught his boat and using flip lines we right sided his in a small eddy further down the river. Though my boat was caught by my buddies several times, it was either released for safety (going through Velvet) or just couldn’t be held in small eddies upside down. It was finally caught, and right sided about a mile above Sheepeater in a very tight, dangerous log infested quagmire. It was beat up pretty bad including a puncture to its inner bladder (a wonderful old Aire Jag). I repaired it at Sheepeater the next day, after doing some minor repairs and temporary inflating about a half mile above the camp where we tied it off after its initial rescue the day before.
> 
> I need to also mention that there was a huge log on the rock at Velvet. It completely blocked the high water sneak on left and made it impossible to do the hard left pull around the rock to avoid the hole at Velvet. In other words you have to run the hole. We also scouted (which we never do) Pistol. It was clear but big. Below Indian Creek we had very good water, BUT there are many more logs in the river than usual AND it is ever changing now. Just because the road may open one of these days you better be prepared for very dangerous and shifting log conditions ANYWHERE. Please be careful out there.


🤘


----------



## Dangerfield

Current info on the MF from USFS MF Notifications:


*Current Status of Boundary Creek Rd, Guard Station Offices, and Potable Water
Indian Creek Guard Station*: Office is open. Hours 7:30 am - 6:00 pm. Potable water is available. 
*Boundary Creek Guard Station*: Scheduled to open June 5. Hours 7:30 am - 6:00 pm. Potable water will not be available until further notice. 
*Boundary Creek Road*: It has been reported to the Forest Service by members of the public that the road is open. This has not been confirmed by FS personnel. 
Much of the Middle Fork of the Salmon River corridor has experienced wildfire, which increases the risk of falling trees, rolling rocks, and other hazards to that can be extremely dangerous. While the Forest Service strives to provide updated information, we cannot identify all hazards that may exist. Conditions are continually changing due to fluctuating water levels and weather events such as high winds and storms. In this dynamic wild river environment, boaters should always be prepared for encounters with a variety of potentially life-threatening hazards, loss of or damage to equipment and gear (including boats), and portages in difficult conditions over rugged terrain that can be extremely strenuous. 
Recent reports:
6/1/22 - Channel-spanning log about 1 mile below Sulphur Creek. Portage may be necessary. 
5/31/22 - In general, over the last few days, fluctuating water levels have caused different groups of boaters to encounter channel-spanning and partially channel-spanning logs in various places along the river.


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## athelake

From All Rivers...

Updated info per the ranger for MFS: 6/1/22 1:00 pm
FS went in and ASSESSED the road yesterday. That does not mean they are going to plow it. They were not able to get in. They are going to go back and ASSESS it again today.
The Forest Service generally likes to let Mother Nature take its course so they have no plans on plowing the road, but they will assess it first. So when they say they are going in, please don't confuse assessing with actual plowing....
IF they did, to plant trees or to open a site, etc... this would have to be done by the Salmon Engineers, not necessarily the Challis road crew. Its a whole lot of rules to plow or grade that so even if they did go in, read earlier post - it's going to be at least a week. Looks like warmer weather is on the horizon and I'm sure there will be some folks that will try to get in - along with digging out parties - but for most outfitters and guides.. they've been told 2nd week of June is more likely when it'll begin.
Donna L retired (
Congrats

Donna!) and there is a new MFS River Clerk named Courtney Frost who will also have updated info and her number is 208-756-5587
I hope this helps!!!


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## trizzlix

I went to the boat ramp yesterday. At least one group launched, some of them made it in with 2wd. 
Let it begin...


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## MT4Runner

athelake said:


> From All Rivers...
> 
> Updated info per the ranger for MFS: 6/1/22 1:00 pm
> FS went in and ASSESSED the road yesterday. That does not mean they are going to plow it. They were not able to get in. They are going to go back and ASSESS it again today.
> The Forest Service generally likes to let Mother Nature take its course so they have no plans on plowing the road, but they will assess it first. So when they say they are going in, please don't confuse assessing with actual plowing....
> IF they did, to plant trees or to open a site, etc... this would have to be done by the Salmon Engineers, not necessarily the Challis road crew. Its a whole lot of rules to plow or grade that so even if they did go in, read earlier post - it's going to be at least a week. Looks like warmer weather is on the horizon and I'm sure there will be some folks that will try to get in - along with digging out parties - but for most outfitters and guides.. they've been told 2nd week of June is more likely when it'll begin.
> Donna L retired (Congrats Donna!) and there is a new MFS River Clerk named Courtney Frost who will also have updated info and her number is 208-756-5587
> I hope this helps!!!


I sure appreciate M'Chelle and her updates!


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## Raft Dad

We have a June 5 launch and Blackadar just confirmed with me that the road is open.


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## mcfarlandx5

Here is the entrance to Velvet on 5/31 at about 5.5', taken from the paddle boat guide on our trip.


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## mcfarlandx5

Lowering into the slot on left side of Teepee hole strainer. the small left eddy that the kayaks and paddle boat caught above the strainer appears to be blocked by a new log in most recent aerial photos.


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## Rivernerd

I was advised this morning by Courtney Frost, the new Middle Fork Clerk, that an outfitter cleared the strainer log at Teepee Hole.


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## Roddy

Anyone know if the road to boundary is open? Is it good to go with a trailer?


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## carvedog

The road is definitely open, I talked to an outfitter yesterday that just launched his second trip from Boundary.


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## carvedog

Rivernerd said:


> Using anything other than a truck and shovels to clear the Boundary Creek road is prohibited by Forest Service policy, unless a huge "road damage" bond is posted. A guy tried it once without posting the bond, and got fined. And, the Forest Service threatened to close the road. Not a good idea.
> 
> There is lots of debris in the snow, including rocks and fallen limbs. You would go through lots of shear pins with a snowblower (don't ask me how I know, using a walk-behind 24" snowblower a few years ago. But, a loader would work--if you can afford the bond.


At least from my conversations with the area rangers a few different times over the years, this may not be accurate. 
And I have never seen anything that specifies just trucks and shovels or anything else similar in the FS rules and I went deep. Tracked vehicles and 'bladed' equipment needs a permit. To get a permit you have to post the bond. The least expensive one I could find was over a $1,000. That was ten years ago. Good luck now. 

Also the main part of the road that keeps it 'closed' does not have rocks or wood in it. The downhill side of Fir Creek summit at the bottom does often have avalanche debris buried in the snowpack. 




athelake said:


> Mi'chelle from All Rivers Shuttle posted this on her FB page.
> 
> "With The Middle Fork running 6.5' ish maybe it's a blessing in disguise that the road won't be open for a bit. I am hearing rumors that it's open, but according to the rangers - that is not true.
> Snow is predicted in Stanley, Sunday and Monday 80-90% as well, so factor that in as well, if you are helping dig out the road.
> I have retired forest service personnel who plowed many many roads on our rivers that we run now and they tell me if someone goes in with equipment and ruins the road they are looking at up to 10K fines. We are not talking about a few miles of road. There is much road that doesnt get any sun exposure. Its not just snow on the road either. There are logs, rocks, debris. It's great to bring shovels and ropes, but a chainsaw is what we bring every trip! - We've gone in and the road was open, and then pick up rigs and come out and voila - new trees have fallen!


Partially correct. If they go in with 'equipment' whether they ruin the road or not, they still can be fined. It is only really a few miles of road. She is correct on the chainsaw. One year we cut out 25 trees on the way in and 2 on the way out. Most could have been drug to the side, but when you have a saw you gotta Braaap.


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## Nanko

Does the river really have a 7.5’ peak left in it as forecasted?


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## MT4Runner

HYDROLOGY...An atmospheric river bringing intense precipitation to the region will occur and result in rising water levels for area streams, creeks, and mainstem rivers. Forecast rainfall amounts will range between 1.00 to 3.00 inches Saturday through Monday for north central Idaho and western Montana, particularly locations along the Montana/Idaho border. As a result, excessive runoff may result in flooding of rivers, creeks, streams, and
other low-lying and flood-prone locations. Creeks and streams may rise out of their banks. Rock and mud slides, debris flows, and landslips will also be possible during this time.


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## MT4Runner

It seems likely
What snow is left is going to melt by Monday 






National Weather Service Advanced Hydrologic Prediction Service


National Weather Service Advanced Hydrologic Prediction Service (AHPS)



water.weather.gov


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## Nanko

MT4Runner said:


> HYDROLOGY...An atmospheric river bringing intense precipitation to the region will occur and result in rising water levels for area streams, creeks, and mainstem rivers. Forecast rainfall amounts will range between 1.00 to 3.00 inches Saturday through Monday for north central Idaho and western Montana, particularly locations along the Montana/Idaho border. As a result, excessive runoff may result in flooding of rivers, creeks, streams, and
> other low-lying and flood-prone locations. Creeks and streams may rise out of their banks. Rock and mud slides, debris flows, and landslips will also be possible during this time.


Ah, thanks. Hopefully some high elevation snow sticks around. Be safe out there people. Sounds woody.


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## carvedog

Nanko said:


> Does the river really have a 7.5’ peak left in it as forecasted?


I don't think so. Those NOAA forecasts can suck it.


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## BenSlaughter

I see they just revised it.
Now showing a crest of around 6.7' Monday. Which is still plenty spicy!


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## 572engr

BenSlaughter said:


> I see they just revised it.
> Now showing a crest of around 6.7' Monday. Which is still plenty spicy!


I went swimming in velvet at 6.5, it was not fun, June of 2017, that water is very cold, be prepared to self rescue and I recommend a wet or dry suit!


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## UseTheSpinMove

NWSChat - NOAA's National Weather Service

the plot thickens


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## Dangerfield




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## MT4Runner

Lochsa was woody yesterday at 22-23k


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## Dangerfield

BenSlaughter said:


> I see they just revised it.
> Now showing a crest of around 6.7' Monday. Which is still plenty spicy!


Looks as though that prediction of crest was dead on the money..


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## roundboater

MT4Runner said:


> Lochsa was woody yesterday at 22-23k


We floated it the end of April and it was the lowest I’ve ever seen the Lochsa. What a difference a month makes


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