# frame geometry and rowing question



## SERE Nate (Feb 1, 2019)

For up front seating, I was thinking about getting one of these Crazy Creek chairs vs a paco pad. 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00HQEGXP4/ref=ox_sc_saved_title_6?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1

A guide in the area makes these seats and I have heard nothing but great things, so I was going to try to figure out a way to make a flip seat over the cooler so I can still get into it fairly easily.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

24" is a good working dimension for the rower's bay. A lot of people use that. I'm 6'-6" and it's a tad short for me. If you're under 5'-6", you could probably cut it down to as little as 20".




SERE Nate said:


> So if I have 81" to play with, 18" for the cooler/seat - 24" for the rowing bay, leaves me with 39 inches in front of the captains bay. I was thinking that the next bay would also be 18" in case I want to eventually put my cooler there and row from a dry box in the future. That would leave a 21" table on the front.



Couple more points to consider while you're visualizing:


If you have a 4-bay frame, you have five crossbars. Use 1.6" for easy math. You lose 8" in bars....so that leaves only 34" of openings up front.


20mm cans are 14.75" high, so they'll stick up above your decks...they look more flush on a larger raft with bigger/deeper tubes. If you don't do a drybox, those are your only dry storage spots, and they're narrow enough that space inside them is rather limited.


You may need to plan on having a bulge behind your seat with drybags (consider an Everything bag)...it's not all going to fit belowdecks in front of you.





SERE Nate said:


> Does this put me too far back from center? For the most part it will be just me and the wife and dog.


The boat will always pivot around its center of lateral resistance. You could be in a stern frame and the boat will generally pivot around its center...your body just won't be in the same location. It really doesn't matter where the oarlocks are, but it does depend on where the weight of your body balances the boat.


Having your cooler and your butt both a couple feet behind the center of the boat will also tend to "squat" the boat a bit. Not an issue in Class II, but could be annoying in Class IV where you typically want your weight a bit farther forward to punch waves and holes.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

By the way, my frame is 84" overall. 18"-18"-24"-18" inside plus crossbars.

You're welcome to grab it for a week or two and set it on buckets to think about where stuff will go while you're "bench rowing".


I also have 20mm boxes, table, cooler, etc you can play with.


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## SERE Nate (Feb 1, 2019)

MT4Runner said:


> By the way, my frame is 84" overall. 18"-18"-24"-18" inside plus crossbars.
> 
> You're welcome to grab it for a week or two and set it on buckets to think about where stuff will go while you're "bench rowing".
> 
> ...


Thanks! I was also worried about having too much weight behind center. I'm 200 pounds, wife is 100 pounds and a 60 pound dog.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

Duh, feed your dog more, or get an additional dog! 


Oh, and my 84" double-rail frame has radiused outside corners, so it would come pretty close to fitting on an 81" flat. Like I said, you're welcome to borrow it. Easier to take something physical and decide what you like or don't like and take measurements than it is to try to figure it all out in your head. There are a LOT of interconnected variables so this is why a tinker-toy frame is easiest to start with.


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