# Notoriously fatal river features



## smauk2 (Jun 24, 2009)

I have to give an informative speech and have decided to talk about deadly river features, their history, and proposals or actions taken to make the features more safe. 

If anyone knows of any notoriously fatal features I would love to hear about it.
I know of Dimple Rock on the Lower Yough, and Frog Rock on the Ark. I also remember reading somewhere about a rapid that was blown up by some raft guide, but can't remember the name of it. 

Please reference journals or articles that have some credibility. Also this is an INFORMATIVE speech so opinions are not needed, just facts.


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## Philthy (Apr 30, 2004)

your thinking of quartzite rapid on the Salt River. I don't know about fatalities but it was an arduous portage around the rapid.


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## glenn (May 13, 2009)

Dam's kill people and rivers.


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## Nathan (Aug 7, 2004)

You're thinking of Quartzite on the Salt, but I wouldn't necessarily call it a fatal river feature. I was blown up more for convenience of not having to portage it.

As far as other fatal features most low head dams would fit into that category. For your informative speech is may be a better tactic to talk about what the feature is and use the particular rapids as examples. I wouldn't call Frog Rock a fatal feature, but a rapid that contains a sieve that is a fatal feature. For credibility browse through the AW accident data base and you will be able to find lots of stats.


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## smauk2 (Jun 24, 2009)

Thanks Nathan, and surprised I forgot about low head dams, those are nasty.


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## Phil U. (Feb 7, 2009)

I think the rapid that was blown up on the Salt River was blown because rafts had to portage it and they wanted to change that. The guy spent time in jail for that.

There is an "easy" rapid on the Delaware River that has claimed a ton of lives but that is because it is so close to the megalopolis and inexperienced people decide to buy a kmart raft or borrow a canoe and run it after a big rain. The AW site only references 3 deaths but when I was living in that area seems like there was a death every year. The Wing Dam and the rapid below it.

American Whitewater - NWRI - Delaware Lambertville Wing Dam


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## hojo (Jun 26, 2008)

What Glenn is trying to say is that dams, especially low head dams, are quite lethal and often times overlooked. A search on google will bring up enough data to build a decent presentation. This is a great video as an example of what not to do. It's old and has circulated this list many times: YouTube - Crazy whitewater kayaker beatdown


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## barry (May 6, 2004)

Little Salmon river in Idaho has a nasty drop I have always called "the amphitheater hole." I don't know of any deaths or problems there, but, at high water, it sends a shiver to the core just to look at it. Although it is not man-made, it has all the same (deadly) features as a low head dam.


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## C-dub (Oct 7, 2007)

Could write a whole dialogue on low head dams. This particular one kills almost annually. This year we had our first kayak death(s). In the past it has generally been kids, tubers, canoeists, sevylor rafters, etc.
Jordan River deaths preventable, group says | Deseret News


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## onefatdog (Oct 25, 2003)

section IV of the Chattooga has had literally countless deaths after "deliverance" was released. I think the deadliest drop is woodall shoals class III. I read once that they lost count a long time ago of how many poeple got stuffed under the undercut in the center on that rapid.


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## leery (May 16, 2005)

Dont forget about Killer Bridge on the Poudre. Seems like that feature gets a raft wrapped around it annually, I can remember at least 2 stories of someone drowning there.


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## Tannhauser (Jul 7, 2010)

YouTube - Quartzite's Fall Short.mov

Excerpt from the film about Quartzite getting "blowed up"


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## caverdan (Aug 27, 2004)

Don't know if this counts as a feature.......but if your thinking about the man made kind like low head dams.......how about barb wire and or fences in general.......low built bridges and bridge abuttments


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## JCKeck1 (Oct 28, 2003)

What about Insignificant on the Gauley. It's killed a few.
Joe


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## smauk2 (Jun 24, 2009)

This info is great guys keep it coming


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## raftkat (Jul 20, 2007)

I would say that the most deadly "river feature" is ignorance and carelessness. You hear of deaths on the Upper Colorado in class II because of people not wearing life jackets. When you get into big whitewater, you get more experience out there but a lot of the time deaths are from people making bad choices.

White-water rafters survive close call on Sixmile Creek: Outdoors | adn.com

(Disclaimer: I am not saying only stupid people who make bad decisions die in whitewater. Just saying that many river related deaths could be prevented if the general public had a greater respect for the power of rivers)


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## JHimick (May 12, 2006)

I don't know if it's notorious but I think the picket fence in Blossom Bar on the Rogue has taken several lives. May be hard to argue that it's a natural rapid though because the gold miners blasted it quite a bit back in the day. Hell, now that I think of it, several people have lost their lives in Mule Creek Canyon, also on the Rogue.


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## smauk2 (Jun 24, 2009)

Im not opposed to unnatural features, they are still fatal features.


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## caspermike (Mar 9, 2007)

Nothing needs changed besides judgements. Some bad that lead to bad outcomes..... trees are scary than the other shit to come up. They constantly move with volume


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## eljim (Sep 19, 2007)

*New Sunshine on the Ark*

In 1995 a faux pas from the Air Force rafting company, and +7000cfs flows changed class V Sunshine Falls into class IV Sunshine. The resulting ledge collapse created an entrapment spot bottom river left above the Hemorrhoid Rocks. The death slot is located river left below El Deinte Rock (the big rock in the middle of the river) @ around 2000-2300cfs when rafts hit Bump Rock on river left a swimmer falls into the entrapment spot. Above 1900cfs it is a good idea to enter river right, its easier, and risk versus reward it's worth it. Think about it before dropping in.


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## Paul (Oct 11, 2003)

I had also heard that Confluence Park in Denver was created when one or more dangerous man-made drops were modified to make them friendlier. Not sure if people had died there, or if the city of Denver was just being proactive. Not sure of the source...maybe the CRC says something about this?


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## Xtraheat (May 10, 2010)

JCKeck1 said:


> What about Insignificant on the Gauley. It's killed a few.
> Joe


Really?? I've always thought that that was about the safest hard rapid on the Gauley (I've even swam it before)


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## lmyers (Jun 10, 2008)

The low-head just outside of Salida is notorious...these are just from this season:

Man ignores warning signs, injures shoulder

Second victim dies


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## tjib27 (Jul 28, 2009)

*I think he means Initiation rapid on the Gauley*

the one with the bad sieve


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## boatdziner (Jul 7, 2005)

Not Insignificanton the Upper Gauley, Initiation. Initiation is the first class III drop on the Gauley below the lower put in. It has a beautiful surfing wave at the top of the rapid with a nice stagging eddy on river left. The problem is that there is a sloping shelf of rocks that creat the drop on river right just below the wave. That shelf of rocks has a crack that runs the same direction as the flow of water. If you surf the wave and get washed off to the right (or just run the right side of the rapid) you can get pinned in the slot in the rocks. Not sure about fatalities there but I know that there have been several close calls there in previous years.

Clam rock at the bottom of Lower Railroad on the New River Gorge is another well know entrapment site for kayakers.

Dan


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## kuuskv (Nov 28, 2008)

on the chattooga, woodall shoals is a sliding drop that develops a nasty terminal hole at high water. you could die there, but it's not the most notorious death spot on the chattooga. I think a dog died there a few years ago.

I believe that the rapid that the other guy was referring to is crack in the rock, where a large rock creates three channels in the river complete with wood and sieves. crack is sketchy, and I've always walked it, although middle crack gets run by lots and lots of people with questionable skills.


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## bamackc (Mar 19, 2008)

Foot/leg entrapment is the first thing that comes to my mind, it can happen even in tamest of class 1 on almost any river.

Then sieves.

Hell, when you think about it the water itself is the deadliest feature.

We all like to breath.


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## gannon_w (Jun 27, 2006)

I'm not a rafter but can someone explain why the guy in the raft at 1:42 in the quartzite falls video seems to be not trying to paddle out of the hole? He just kind of stands there takes 3 strokes then ditches? 

Remember I've never rafted and don't know what its called but why can't he turn around (backside facing downstream like crew rowers) and paddle using his more powerful trunk extensors to at least try and paddle out?


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## BoscoBoater (Jul 11, 2006)

gannon_w said:


> I'm not a rafter but can someone explain why the guy in the raft at 1:42 in the quartzite falls video seems to be not trying to paddle out of the hole? He just kind of stands there takes 3 strokes then ditches?



Looks like panic to me.


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## UserName (Sep 7, 2007)

I think 'COLD' has probably taken the most... You often hear of cause of death as heart attacks.. so this is really a function of existing medical condition, triggered by the sudden immersion and shock to the system. This would also be intimately related to the stress of the event.. but I think you cannot overlook 'Cold' as a river feature that has contributed significantly to river deaths.

As for documentation etc.. AW Accident Database


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## caverdan (Aug 27, 2004)

gannon_w said:


> I'm not a rafter but can someone explain why the guy in the raft at 1:42 in the quartzite falls video seems to be not trying to paddle out of the hole? He just kind of stands there takes 3 strokes then ditches?
> 
> Remember I've never rafted and don't know what its called but why can't he turn around (backside facing downstream like crew rowers) and paddle using his more powerful trunk extensors to at least try and paddle out?





BoscoBoater said:


> Looks like panic to me.


Looks like he really gets slammed hard going into the hole. It seems to take him a few seconds to get his senses back and realizes he is being sucked back in. He is on his knees trying to push hard and not getting anywhere soon.

It appears when the rope comes to him and he grabs it ..........he was wanting to stay with the boat......but got pulled out before he could get a good brace with his body on the front tube........that's my take on it.:shock::-o


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## CanyonEJ (Jul 28, 2008)

gannon_w said:


> I'm not a rafter but can someone explain why the guy in the raft at 1:42 in the quartzite falls video seems to be not trying to paddle out of the hole? He just kind of stands there takes 3 strokes then ditches?
> 
> Remember I've never rafted and don't know what its called but why can't he turn around (backside facing downstream like crew rowers) and paddle using his more powerful trunk extensors to at least try and paddle out?


He is pushing. He's standing up and putting all his weight into it, the river is just pushing so hard on him that it's not doing much. I've been in a lot of wind where you just put your oars in the water, push with all you have and stand into the oars and they don't move. It's all you can do to keep the boat from going backwards. At that point, if he were to try to turn and pull, he'd lose anything he had gained (not much) and get sucked straight back in. There's a point at which trying to do something else will cause more problems.


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## BobN (Mar 28, 2006)

To the OP - Don't know how long your talk needs to be, but I think you would actually be helping educate people more if you talked about types of river hazards rather tahn specific "deadly" rapids. Probably top three, imho, would be low head dam, foot entrapment and sieve/strainer. You could then use specific rapids or incidents as examples.


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## onefatdog (Oct 25, 2003)

kuuskv said:


> on the chattooga, woodall shoals is a sliding drop that develops a nasty terminal hole at high water. you could die there, but it's not the most notorious death spot on the chattooga. I think a dog died there a few years ago.
> 
> I believe that the rapid that the other guy was referring to is crack in the rock, where a large rock creates three channels in the river complete with wood and sieves. crack is sketchy, and I've always walked it, although middle crack gets run by lots and lots of people with questionable skills.


there is a gnarly undercut sieve in woodall right in the middle. the write up in the southeastern whitewater book talks about it and the grappling hook attempts to dislodge trapped bodies that really just dismembers them.


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## deepsouthpaddler (Apr 14, 2004)

Angry drunk locals with shotguns


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## smauk2 (Jun 24, 2009)

deepsouthpaddler said:


> Angry drunk locals with shotguns


I might just make my entire speech about that


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## smauk2 (Jun 24, 2009)

BobN said:


> To the OP - Don't know how long your talk needs to be, but I think you would actually be helping educate people more if you talked about types of river hazards rather tahn specific "deadly" rapids. Probably top three, imho, would be low head dam, foot entrapment and sieve/strainer. You could then use specific rapids or incidents as examples.


Not a bad idea I'll keep that in mind.

Had to be 4-6 min, so not a lot of time.


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## onefatdog (Oct 25, 2003)

also i think the entire whitewater section of the rogue river in oregon has been blasted for safe boating.


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## willieboater (Sep 8, 2006)

onefatdog said:


> also i think the entire whitewater section of the rogue river in oregon has been blasted for safe boating.


 Glen and co. got tired of carrying their wooden boats over the rocks, especially Blossom... *Boom*


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## rhm (May 16, 2006)

i'm not so sure about trying to make dangerous river features safer. i think that doing so could open up a big can of worms for who ever tries to make a feature safer. for instance, what happens if someone like the national park service fills in an undercut rock on a river so that nobody ever drowns there again. then somebody else gets killed under another undercut rock on the same river that they didn't fill in. the park service would then be liable because they made one feature safe but didn't make the other one safe. they can't make every rapid safe, so therefore to keep themselves out of the courts they just don't try to "fix" any dangerous spots.

like others have said, i'd stick with talking about safety and how to avoid the dangerous spots, or what to do if you find yourself in a dangerous spot. those dangerous spots are what make whitewater rivers and creeks fun in the first place.


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## smauk2 (Jun 24, 2009)

^ I'm not saying I agree with making rivers safer, just presenting information on the subject, hence informative not persuasive.


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## sarahkonamojo (May 20, 2004)

ELJIM,
I was corrected on this recently. It was a Petersen AFB rec program boat that wrapped in Sunshine in 1995. The AFA rafts assisted Petersen is extracting their raft. The collective effort of removing the wrapped raft is what moved the rock.
Sarah


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## Boilerblues (Jun 15, 2007)

rhm said:


> i'm not so sure about trying to make dangerous river features safer. i think that doing so could open up a big can of worms for who ever tries to make a feature safer. for instance, what happens if someone like the national park service fills in an undercut rock on a river so that nobody ever drowns there again. then somebody else gets killed under another undercut rock on the same river that they didn't fill in. the park service would then be liable because they made one feature safe but didn't make the other one safe. they can't make every rapid safe, so therefore to keep themselves out of the courts they just don't try to "fix" any dangerous spots.
> 
> like others have said, i'd stick with talking about safety and how to avoid the dangerous spots, or what to do if you find yourself in a dangerous spot. those dangerous spots are what make whitewater rivers and creeks fun in the first place.


I recall reading something about the NOC filling a foot entrapment spot on Nantahala Falls with concrete in response to one accident. I just looked in the AW accident database, but didn't find that specific reference. Might be worth checking with Charlie Walbridge.


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## jgrebe (Jan 16, 2010)

A bit of old history here. The Royal Gorge used to have a low head dam (for the CC water intake) that was nortorious for killing people. Back in about 1972 a couple of GI's from Ft Carson drowned, and the city had stopped using the dam so the army came in and blew the shit out of it. Problem solved and few people even remember it was there.


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## jgrebe (Jan 16, 2010)

I realize that the above reference was a man made feature and the discussion is about altering natural features for safety. INMO we alter almost every single aspect of of our "natural" environment for safety and ease of use. From bolts on rock climbs to trails in the backcountry. Why should a river be any different? I'm not advocating wholesale remodeling to turn our rivers into waterparks, but if a know feature repeatadly is killing people and the environmental impact is short term, why not deal with it? Just my opinion


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## Kendrick (Jul 8, 2010)

Are the two low-head damns on the lower Blue run safe? I ask because I've already paddled right through them, but nonetheless, I'm told they are lowhead damns, plus Eddy Flower says this:

*2 dams Class II*
_There are two diversion dams about 100 yds apart as you begin to exit the tall cliff section of the canyon. They are horseshoe shaped with the apex pointed upstream and made from piles of rocks. Keep some speed and roll over the apex. There is a sign warning you on the right for the first dam._


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## basil (Nov 20, 2005)

Those dams on the lower Blue aren't low-head dams. They are nasty, but not as bad as a low head dam.


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## SalidaRider (Jul 18, 2008)

I would like to point out that notoroiusly fatal river features are generally on popular whitewater sections. Your research might include accidents per capita for the rapids you discuss. For example the Arkansas, Gauley and Chatooga rapids and dams suggested have thousands of people that float through without any problems every year and other creeks and rivers that only a few hundred or less float per year take lives for one reason or another. 
Other inporatant data to include might be water flows, water temperature and experience/skill level of the victims.


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## Kendrick (Jul 8, 2010)

basil said:


> Those dams on the lower Blue aren't low-head dams. They are nasty, but not as bad as a low head dam.



Alright, thanks for the clarification. I figured they were alright, considering the slope through the big rocks. It was very easy to paddle through, but it looked intimidating.


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## mhelm (Jun 28, 2008)

onefatdog said:


> there is a gnarly undercut sieve in woodall right in the middle. the write up in the southeastern whitewater book talks about it and the grappling hook attempts to dislodge trapped bodies that really just dismembers them.


Still talking about Crack... Any of the 5 falls can be deadly on the Chattooga. Woodall Shoals has a terminal hole at higher flows and Bull Sluice has killed plenty of non-experienced swimmers. Raven's Chute has also killed, but Crack has had the grappling hook issues.


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## Xtraheat (May 10, 2010)

mhelm said:


> Still talking about Crack... Any of the 5 falls can be deadly on the Chattooga. Woodall Shoals has a terminal hole at higher flows and Bull Sluice has killed plenty of non-experienced swimmers. Raven's Chute has also killed, but Crack has had the grappling hook issues.


Bull Sluice has? Really? I used to run Section 3 and end at Bull Sluice when I was a lower-intermediate paddler and I've swam that rapid many many times, and it's not even a particularly scary swim. What has killed all these people?


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## jenneral (Aug 28, 2006)

The meat grinder on the crystal has caused a fatalities I believe.


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## ZGjethro (Apr 10, 2008)

The only death on the grinder that I know of was that of Henry Philip in very high water for that section. He was also boating solo but filmed at the time, with no rescue help available. This is a serious rapid which for the most part has epic swims but very few deaths.


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## brandob9 (Jun 13, 2010)

I know of two fatalities at Blossom Bar in the last few years. One was a middle aged woman who paddled right into the picket fence in a duckie and stayed attached. The second was an older guy from Eugene who's raft got stuck on the picket fence. He had a heart attack during his attempts to unstick the raft and died on the scene.


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## brandob9 (Jun 13, 2010)

Come to think of it, another notorious river hazard is the water temperature. When combined with uneducated swimmers, this turns deadly. There are two rivers very near to Portland that are popular with the public, the Clackamas and the Sandy. Both of them flow from the heights of the Cascades.

When the weather in town becomes hot, these see a flood of people, as a very small (>20%) of the buildings in the city have AC. People forget that even though the air temp is above 100, the water is still in the 40's. The people don't die from hypothermia, the dropping of core temp; they die from muscle seizure and sink.


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## lmyers (Jun 10, 2008)

brandob9 said:


> Come to think of it, another notorious river hazard is the water temperature.


Already mentioned, page 3 :



UserName said:


> I think 'COLD' has probably taken the most... You often hear of cause of death as heart attacks.. so this is really a function of existing medical condition, triggered by the sudden immersion and shock to the system. This would also be intimately related to the stress of the event.. but I think you cannot overlook 'Cold' as a river feature that has contributed significantly to river deaths.
> 
> As for documentation etc.. AW Accident Database


quite the long thread already.


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## mhelm (Jun 28, 2008)

Xtraheat said:


> Bull Sluice has? Really? I used to run Section 3 and end at Bull Sluice when I was a lower-intermediate paddler and I've swam that rapid many many times, and it's not even a particularly scary swim. What has killed all these people?


 
No boater that I really know of, but there is a sign there saying how many people have died swimming there. That is a pretty easy rapid once you're running more than class 3. I safety boated/raft guided section 4 for 7 years, and did see some crazy stuff all over that river. I never actually swam anything there, but there are plenty of undercuts, sieves, and potholes to worry about.


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## GAtoCSU (Apr 18, 2005)

mhelm said:


> No boater that I really know of, but there is a sign there saying how many people have died swimming there. That is a pretty easy rapid once you're running more than class 3. I safety boated/raft guided section 4 for 7 years, and did see some crazy stuff all over that river. I never actually swam anything there, but there are plenty of undercuts, sieves, and potholes to worry about.


There have been numerous fatalities all the way down the Chattooga. Section III has had fatalities in the Narrows, Sandy Ford/Dick Creek (at high water), and Bull Sluice (>10 fatalities).

Section IV is also a beast...

Woodall Shoals is NOT a class 3 rapid (where the hole is). That hole is easily a class 5 hole, with serious class 6 consequences (water level dependent). I've surfed that hole up to 1.5ft, and accidentally surfed the hole at 2.25. Very scary hole for sure.

The Five Falls section of the Chattooga is the famous section of river, and definitely the most notorious as well. Corkscrew generally causes people to swim into Crack in the Rock, a rapid which has killed over 10 people. Left crack used to be the main concern (where numerous body entrapments have occurred), but right crack has been the recent killer (20 feet deep above the slot, blocked by a serious of trees under the water). Bottom line- if you swim into crack in the rock you have a serious chance of not making it out.

Jawbone (numerous fatalities) and Sock'em Dog (numerous fatalities) round out the five falls section.

Sketchy river to be an intermediate boater on.


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## eljim (Sep 19, 2007)

And your point? Steel cable come-a-longs, anchored downstream. Sounds like a text book rescue.


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## matt cook (Dec 15, 2009)

Woodall is definately a class IV or V with class VI consequence. I went down there this summer at 1.5 and was told by a number of boaters ( mostly guides and former guides) that we could run it in my Puma oar-rig. We stopped to scout, and since there was a commercial trip there portaging, we decided to run it. ran it far, far right, pushing hard into it and hitting the last 5 feet on the right side. it buried my girlfriend and the front half of the boat, we popped out with about 12 feet between the stern and the hole, and just like a conveyor belt it started sucking us back in. I pushhed twice, standing for the second push, and was still going backwards. I was about to tell my girl to bail and swim when the boat began to spin, so i cranked it the rest of the way around, pulled and was out. I seriously underestimated that rapid and its history, and in my opinion so did those who said I could run it. They were right, I did it, but we could have been one stroke away from dying there. I will never run Woodall again, nor would I recommend it. It is kinda scary that such a fun looking slide can suck you in so hard. Had we not been with boaters who had lots of experience on section 4, and if we hadn't talked with some of the guides before putting on, I probably would have dropped into the middle with no speed and got worked. All this being said, I think it boils down to being honest with yourself about your skills and experience, as well as doing your homework before running a new river. I thought that day while scouting that someone had made a mistake or had been too conservative in labeling Woodall Shoals a VI. Twenty yards later I had a whole new respect for guide books, terminal holes, class VI, Woodall Shoals, and any rapid that someone who isn't on my trip tells me I "should be fine" in.


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## mhelm (Jun 28, 2008)

matt cook said:


> Woodall is definately a class IV or V with class VI consequence. I went down there this summer at 1.5 and was told by a number of boaters ( mostly guides and former guides) that we could run it in my Puma oar-rig. We stopped to scout, and since there was a commercial trip there portaging, we decided to run it. ran it far, far right, pushing hard into it and hitting the last 5 feet on the right side. it buried my girlfriend and the front half of the boat, we popped out with about 12 feet between the stern and the hole, and just like a conveyor belt it started sucking us back in. I pushhed twice, standing for the second push, and was still going backwards. I was about to tell my girl to bail and swim when the boat began to spin, so i cranked it the rest of the way around, pulled and was out. I seriously underestimated that rapid and its history, and in my opinion so did those who said I could run it. They were right, I did it, but we could have been one stroke away from dying there. I will never run Woodall again, nor would I recommend it. It is kinda scary that such a fun looking slide can suck you in so hard. Had we not been with boaters who had lots of experience on section 4, and if we hadn't talked with some of the guides before putting on, I probably would have dropped into the middle with no speed and got worked. All this being said, I think it boils down to being honest with yourself about your skills and experience, as well as doing your homework before running a new river. I thought that day while scouting that someone had made a mistake or had been too conservative in labeling Woodall Shoals a VI. Twenty yards later I had a whole new respect for guide books, terminal holes, class VI, Woodall Shoals, and any rapid that someone who isn't on my trip tells me I "should be fine" in.


If you ran the rapid far far right, that isn't even where the hole is. The hole is on the left at medium flows and middle at high flows. That is a technical rapid, but far easier than most on downstream.


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## GAtoCSU (Apr 18, 2005)

mhelm said:


> If you ran the rapid far far right, that isn't even where the hole is. The hole is on the left at medium flows and middle at high flows. That is a technical rapid, but far easier than most on downstream.


I'm sure he ran the actual hole. The one there is to punch the left corner of the hole. Running the right side rarely happens, as you are more likely to end up stuck in the meat.

The line at Woodall is more difficult than anything in the five falls. Not many people every try the real line a Woodall.


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## matt cook (Dec 15, 2009)

Yeah I ran the right side of the hole, not the kayak line far river right. There is some gnarly shit on that section. Not that I've been a lot of places, but that is definately the most technical rowing I've ever done, with the most consequences. Whether or not Woodall is more technical than anything else down stream is a matter for debate, but It really has the potential to be dangerous to those who underestimate it, or who are simply ignorant about it's existance and history. It just looks so inviting and fun from the top, not so much from the bottom though. I spent a few minutes that day apologizing to the kayakers we tagged along with for putting them in such a potentially shitty situation. I dont think they thought I would really run it until they looked over to see me rowing into it like a fiend.


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## mhelm (Jun 28, 2008)

Definitely not too many people row that river... its more like creek rafting than river running. I miss my days down there! Its a very beautiful, adventurous, and erie place...


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