# Repost from RRFW Riverwire (via Tom Martin/RGC)



## mattman (Jan 30, 2015)

Thanks for posting this readNrun.
I also pointed out that the private trip season is MUCH longer than the commercial season,( some years, it is even year round) thereby spreading out private use over a much longer portion of the year.
It would not make sense to hold private numbers to even the same number as commercial trips, for this reason alone.


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## Andy H. (Oct 13, 2003)

Andrew - Thanks for posting this!

I just provided detailed comments and really appreciate being able to reference and also "borrow" language from the American Whitewater and Colorado Whitewater comment documents to revise and supplement my own comments.

Among other things I have asked for increased trailer-friendly access points from below Number 5 Rapid through Lake Pueblo.

In particular, some comments on more popular reaches:



> *10. Section 2b: Fisherman’s Bridge to Stone Bridge (Incl. Browns Canyon National Monument)*
> I frequently boat and camp on this section on weekends and am able to avoid crowds by simply timing my launch to avoid commercial fleets. I concur with the AW recommendation to increase private boating capacities in Section 2b to be equal to or greater than commercial capacities. I generally support the Proposed Action to increase both management and development of Browns Canyon. I strongly support enforcement of waste and firepan regulations at campsites and strongly discourage CPW from implementing a fee-based reservation system for camping unless absolutely necessary to protect the environment and the user experience from degradation. I have never been unable to find a suitable campsite on Brown's Canyon and feel that education is the solution to resource preservation rather than a permit system.
> 
> *16. Section 4b: Texas Creek to Parkdale*
> ...


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## Sherpa9543 (Jul 22, 2014)

mattman said:


> Thanks for posting this readNrun.
> I also pointed out that the private trip season is MUCH longer than the commercial season,( some years, it is even year round) thereby spreading out private use over a much longer portion of the year.
> It would not make sense to hold private numbers to even the same number as commercial trips, for this reason alone.



I'm trying to wrap my head around where you stand on this, and the point your trying to make. 


Sent from my iPhone using Mountain Buzz


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## protechie (Jun 16, 2005)

I think the point is that when comparing the number of commercial users to private users, private users are spread out over a much longer time period, so their impact towards busy river days compared to commercial users is even less than the data would suggest. At least that’s one possible point that I gathered from this statement.


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## Andy H. (Oct 13, 2003)

My understanding is the private vs commercial boat quotas are on a daily basis. So it doesn't matter that private boaters are spread across a longer season from AHRA's perspective. 

If I'm incorrect on this, please correct me. Logan?

-AH


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## mattman (Jan 30, 2015)

Protechie is correct, that is my point.

If Quotas for private boaters are by day, as they are for commercial trips, then it would make that point no longer valid.I am also interested to know if that is the case or not.

It does seem like a harder statistic to keep accurately. Outfitters are required to keep documentation of all there trips. To keep track of numbers for private trips you have fee stations and volunteers at some of the access points. You do not really know the numbers for ahra pass holders, or users of the none fee area river access sites.


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## mattman (Jan 30, 2015)

What Andy H said really does do a pretty good job of describing where I stand on the subject as well.

I don't think limiting private boater numbers on the Arkansas is needed at this time.
In my experience, it has always been possible to avoid the crowds by adjusting your launch time. Late afternoon and evening is a special time to be on the water, and far nicer then boating during the heat of the day, in my opinion. 

Education hear is key, not more regs.


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## Andy H. (Oct 13, 2003)

*Today's the last day to comment!*

Bump! Hey Folks, today's the last day to comment as I haven't seen anything about an extension.

Please go to the link below to post your comment. I recommend checking out the AW and CW comments before making your comments.

Thanks All!

-AH



readNrun said:


> To post your comments to AHRA, go to the following web portal:
> https://www.research.net/r/AHRA-MP
> 
> Copy your comments to the following critical representatives (even if you live out of state): They are unaware of this draft plan.
> ...


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## NoCo (Jul 21, 2009)

I commented on the sections that I run and asked for an extension. Everyone needs to be commenting since this will effect all of us for the next 20 years.


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