# Kayaking and Risk



## Caleb125 (Oct 25, 2012)

Kayaking is obviously an inherently risky sport. I have a lot of discussions about this with friends and my parents and they can never understand why I kayak when there is so much risk involved. I try to explain it to them but it never seems to work. For me I keep kayaking simply because I love doing it and hate not doing it. For most people, however, that is not a simple enough answer. They just don't understand it! 

Whenever I go to run a rapid I always weigh risk and reward. Obviously if the risk outweighs the reward I will always walk. Even if there is more risk than I am comfortable with I walk, even if the reward is higher. 

I guess the point I'm trying to make is that people don't understand kayaking. It makes it really hard to talk to people about it because they just think I'm crazy and have a death sentence. In my mind, however, it's almost a death sentence to not kayak, metaphorically speaking. So how do you guys deal with this? What do you tell people when they don't understand kayaking? I would love to see how I should change the way I represent our passion!


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## Learch (Jul 12, 2010)

Statistically, you are more likely to die driving a car, or die while working at your place of employment. Yes, rivers can be dangerous, but most of the people I boat with have common sense, ability, and have some form of training to mitigate the risk. I have never been a class v boater, never will be, but I have a lot of miles under my belt. I figure just by miles paddled I am more likely to get hurt or killed, or witness/ get involved with something along those lines at some point. I have had one really bad close call in 26 years of river running. (Foot entrapment, I nearly drowned, seconds from passing out) 
I don't take unnecessary risks, and my personal limit is I won't paddle something that I don't think I could survive swimming. I see a lot of people running stuff that I couldn't imagine swimming, and that is fine by me. We all get to work up to our limits in WW. I might still die boating. Heaven forbid I do, I will have died doing something I love, with people I cared for and respected, and I know where I'm going when I die.


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## dthurbs (Mar 11, 2010)

*Just take 'er easy*



Caleb125 said:


> people don't understand kayaking. It makes it really hard to talk to people about it b


Likely, because they don't care. This isn't something that's unique to kayaking. It goes for mountain biking, snowboarding, mountaineering, jetskiing, hell, it probably goes for quilting. It would be awfully tough for me to listen to someone go on and on about quilting precisely because I don't share that passion. But if someone I care about is clearly invested in a quilt project, I just may take the time to ask them about it. If you want your family to take some interest in your passion for kayaking, let them start the conversation.

As I've become more acutely aware of just how little people care when I get rad, I've personally responded by not talking about it as much. After all, the reason we paddle and decide to challenge ourselves in risky situations should never be with the motive of telling stories about it to earn respect. Anyone would deny that their decision making is influenced by the prospect of notoriety, but then we tend to talk about ourselves anyway when we're taking a break from editing our footage from the day. Try keeping the conversation about your exploits within your group of paddling partners and you might get some insight of you own into why you've been taking certain risks.

That's my strategy at least. I keep the stories to myself unless someone asks. If I have a swim, I humbly admit the mistakes I made. If I have a close call, I certainly don't talk about it with pride of the disaster I just dodged. Aside from those two events, there really isn't much place in a discussion for me to describe particular risks with someone who is unlikely to ever face it themselves. Showcasing dangers is often a way for folks to quantify an accomplishment, so if that's been the case for you, perhaps focus your conversation on all the other elements of your excitement for kayaking. The people you meet, the places you travel to, and perhaps a photo of something other than waterfalls, bootie beers, and brown claws. 

I probably sound a bit presumptuous here, so sorry for where I'm wrong. Just personally, I've realized that when people have gotten frustrated with my incessant paddle-banter, it's because I was being a bit of an egomaniac and making conversations all about myself. This goes nowhere. Maintain some mystery around this whole kayaking thing you're into and it'll build some curiosity among friends and family. And if it doesn't, oh well. Talk about something else.

If you haven't seen this before, it's well worth the read. Written by one of the best kayakers you've never heard of.
Style | Site Zed


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## lmyers (Jun 10, 2008)

^ Awesome first post ^


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## bobbuilds (May 12, 2007)

We all share the same fate, it is what we do with the time in between. 

I have learned to appreciate this.


also great post^^^


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## yak1 (Jan 28, 2006)

When they call you nuts just smile and ask if they have ever texted while driving, talked on a cell phone while driving, looked away from the road for 2 seconds. If people where 1/8 as aware of their environment while driving as kayakers are while on the river there would be close to zero traffic accidents. All it takes is one magic moment of stupidity to change your life irrevocably.


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## mattoak (Apr 29, 2013)

Just show them this:

https://vimeo.com/124103565


Also, 


Learch said:


> Statistically, you are more likely to die driving a car, or die while working at your place of employment.


If you normalized these statistics by the number of people who do them, I bet you're more likely to die kayaking.


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## Cphilli (Jun 10, 2010)

I just hate when there is more risk portaging than firing.


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## soggy_tortillas (Jul 22, 2014)

If they're curious enough about it try to get them to go boating with you sometime. That's the only way they'll ever really understand what they've been missing out on.

"Don't knock it till you try it, eh."


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## jbolson (Apr 6, 2005)

People fear what they don't understand. The only way to understand kayaking is to do it. So short of getting your family to try it, as others have suggested, you will have to live with their disapproval.


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## SteamboatBORN (Sep 22, 2012)

My wife is a religious woman (catholic) and tries to go to church at least once a week. I am not a religious person but she sees how much skiing, fishing, river, etc means to me. Flying through an aspen glade on skis at speeds that would rival a goshawk, using only my intuition, muscle memory, ability, and years of practice is my meditation, just like church is that for my wife. My brain turns off work, bills, kid, money, stress, etc and only focuses on me making the gap between the next set of trees, nothing else. There is a Buddhist monk who comes skiing here from time to time, and he compares skiing to meditation and says its almost one in the same. Same can be said for running a river, mountain biking, sky diving, etc. 

So we may be the 1% of the population that puts more risk on your lives by tearing down a snow covered mountain or cascading down a mountain creek, and most think we are insane, but to us its a Tuesday, its our meditation, our AA meeting, stress reducer, vice, death wish, what ever you want to call!

As someone commented above, as I get older I talk about these things less, and am becoming more humble. Just like church to my wife is one of the most personal/spiritual aspects of her life, she does not talk about it or preach it to others. Something to be said about that and something I am still learning.


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## glenn (May 13, 2009)

Exercise, meditation, flow state, motor skill development, an intimate dance with one of the most powerful and humbling forces on earth, access to remote wilderness areas and epic geology, a community that will literally put their life on the line for each other. Run a big rapid and the anti-depressant will work all week long. Without it I'm lost.


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## Phil U. (Feb 7, 2009)

glenn said:


> Exercise, meditation, flow state, motor skill development, an intimate dance with one of the most powerful and humbling forces on earth, access to remote wilderness areas and epic geology, a community that will literally put their life on the line for each other. Run a big rapid and the anti-depressant will work all week long. Without it I'm lost.



This!


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## deepsouthpaddler (Apr 14, 2004)

This is a common problem. You love kayaking, you want to share your stoke, and others don't understand and think you are crazy. The harder you try to explain how much you thrive on the adrenaline the less they will understand and the more they will think you are crazy.

I've learned the hard way that this doesn't work and will never work. I talk about kayaking not in terms of risk, class V, or adrenaline, but in terms of outdoor beauty, exploration, comradarie and friendships, and a hobby that provides a mental, physical and spiritual stimulation that I need to stay whole. I try to steer conversations away from risk and craziness.

Couple of thoughts... it won't help to show pictures and videos and try to get folks to understand what you do. The people that understand you are other kayakers. Share you amp stories with paddlers on trips or at the takeout or on shuttle. When you get home... you had a fun time, saw a bald eagle, and had an enjoyable paddle. This is a tough pill to swallow. It means that some folks who are close to you might never fully understand you. My wife has eventually come around after a decade that I need to paddle and I will paddle. On the path to that understanding were many misunderstandings about risk etc. 

Also... the whole driving is more dangerous than kayaking is bogus. I know more people who have died kayaking than from all other things combined. Kayaking is dangerous. This line of conversation won't likely work for you.


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## SKeen (Feb 23, 2009)

This is part of the reason that after 10 years of yakin' I decided to buy a raft. To share the stoke with my friends and family.


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## cadster (May 1, 2005)

We all have are own and likely different perceptions of risk. Even having boated whitewater for a long time, I wouldn't do what is thought of as "progressing" in the sport these days.

Here's an article that revels those different attitudes:
Good Driver Discount

And here's another that shows how our own assessment can change when we look at our experiences differently:
http://avalanche.state.co.us/got-religion-now/


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## shoenfeld13 (Aug 18, 2009)

Is it possible that you don't understand your parents concern because you yourself are not a parent? I did tons of risky stuff in my 20's and 30's and less in my 40's after becoming a parent. I rarely kayak anymore because of lack of time, and I tend to raft a ton more because I enjoy the trips. Assessing risk is a very complicated thing, both science and art. Many very good kayakers have died pushing themselves. They thought the risk was both measurable and reasonable. Unfortunately, it can very quickly go the wrong way once you are in the shit. From your post it says you have been paddling since 2013. That is probably not enough time to competently assess your risk. That is also likely why your parents show concern. Just don't be an Aaron Ralston. 

As for not understanding DTHURBS said it beautifully. No one really cares about your kayaking trip unless they are a boater. I stopped talking about my trips years ago. Keep on keepin on!


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## KSC (Oct 22, 2003)

Seems like you are combining a couple of different ideas in your question. 

Idea 1) Is kayaking dangerous? Kayaking can be safe or dangerous or in between depending on how you do it. Around Colorado I just compare it to skiing because most people understand that. You can go down some green runs in the area with some kids and old ladies (fairly safe), or backcountry down exposed 60 degree heli accessed lines in Alaska (fairly dangerous). The danger is also relative to your skill and preparation.

Idea 2) You do the dangerous kayaking - why do you do that? Harder, more philosophical question of course. I think the most interesting question here is, if something terrible happened to you - death, paralyzed, debilitating brain injury, etc. - would you regret your actions, or would you say it's still worth it? Reminds me of the current football debate. There's obvious serious long term repercussions for many pro football players and some say it was all worth it and they'd do it again and some say if they'd known the consequences they wouldn't do it or wouldn't tell their children to do it.

My take is that whatever you do in life someone will criticize you, so decide for yourself how you want to live yours. Determine whose opinions you respect and listen to those people. Ignore the others.


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## soggy_tortillas (Jul 22, 2014)

I'm not sure where I heard this one, but I have it floating around on a sticky note by my desk:

"The risks and adventures are the salt of life; an over-safe, monotonous living takes away the taste, the emotions of life."


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## Krynn (Jan 20, 2004)

*Risks vs regrets*

Risks vs regrets
I prefer taking small risks of an early demise so I could have the experience of running Gore canyon, crystal gorge, and the middle fork of the salmon.
To living to be 90 and looking back at a life with no story/experience.


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## -k- (Jul 15, 2005)

Simply put, there's risk in living. 

Some of us find more reward than others in those risks, but that does not necessarily make us reckless or careless with our lives. Others may find solace in paddling to express an element of control over other aspects in their lives, both are therapeutic.

I admit to being nervous most anytime I paddle. Often for myself and others I paddle with. It's not that I am a hard charger, but I realize that strange things can happen and that variables change every day. That perception of risk itself makes me more in tune with the present. As I paddle that nervousness begins to wash away to something remarkable though, an intimate interaction with the river and those around me. Few things make me appreciate the simplest of things in life or make me feel more connected than a day on the water. I think part of it is facing fears, wether rational or irrational, prepares us for our daily lives and helps us face other challenges, and at other times it just keeps things from getting too dull.


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## okieboater (Oct 19, 2004)

WW boating is like sky diving in that something can happen out of the ordinary and the person dies in seconds or minutes. Not much time to do what ever it takes to avoid injury or worse. 

I am not saying that a person can not control the risk factor. They can to some degree.

But sometimes shit happens and the person pays the price no matter how safety conscious they think they are .

If a person does any dangerous sport year after year, I believe the risk factor gets higher and higher no matter how much the person thinks they are immune from injury or death.


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## rivermunkey (Dec 30, 2011)

This was just posted on Boatertalk. Maybe it will help.

https://vimeo.com/124103565


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## mattoak (Apr 29, 2013)

rivermunkey said:


> This was just posted on Boatertalk. Maybe it will help.


Obviously did not read the thread. Look at post #7.


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## ag3dw (May 13, 2006)

Good thread, we always need a reminder of the risk in our endeavors and how we assess it. It is good you are aware of this early in your kayaking life and what I assume is your life in general. Even when, or especially when your impulse control is not fully formed. One caution I would make in your risk assessment is to not buy into the saccrine pabulum that you will die doing something you love. No, to use the skiing analogy, she died because lots avalanching snow crushed her against a tree. She died in agony and flashes of searing pain. 

Or in kayaking terms, fighting to get out of your boat and get a breath totally immersed in liquid. Or in a wheelchair, older after you landed that huge falls wrong. You wont love it in your last moments, as far as we know. The heuristics of avy safety are appropriate: peer pressure, accompanying experts, familiarity with the run, etc., are cautions we need to be aware of. Make it your study. For a long time. Have fun!


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