# How to value used rafts



## Junk Show Tours (Mar 11, 2008)

How much is he asking? Were they used commercially? On what rivers? Do the baffles work? How were the rafts stored in the offseason?


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## engine22 (Jun 18, 2008)

$3,300 a piece. 4 years of commercial use on the Lower Animas in Durango, which isn't too hard on boats. Baffles are good, boats are rolled in the winter.


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## GC Guide (Apr 10, 2009)

A 4 year old E series with good baffles, good I-beams in the floor, and not much wear could be a lifetime boat with 20 or so river days a year. It will also take some TLC to make this happen. The problem comes in where the outfitter selling the raft paid about 3500 bucks for it. 5300 retail. I would offer 3k for the best in the fleet. They WILL sell them regardless.


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## Junk Show Tours (Mar 11, 2008)

That doesn't sound like a smoking deal but it also isn't totally unreasonable. You should check the NRS Gearswap page to get an idea of what used rafts are going for these days. Prices span the gamut so its really just what a seller will sell it for and a buyer is willing to pay. If you are buying multiple rafts from him, I would think that he could do a little better than that, given that he probably got a pro deal on them.


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## BCJ (Mar 3, 2008)

GCGuide has a good point that the outfitter did not pay retail and also had the use of the boats for 5 years. Not sure what to say, but they are good boats. Two of my hard-core rafting buddies have E150's and they're working good and holding up well with proper care. If you're buying the fleet, offer 2200 each and hold firm to about 2600. If you're trying to buy just one, he may not dip below 3. Good used boats are hard to find, though, so if you need a boat pay what you're willing to pay and go have a good time. Like Dylan said - - "Don't look back."


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## BCJ (Mar 3, 2008)

PS, forgot to ask or mention - - are the boats painted with company logo? If so this really detracts from their value.


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## Avatard (Apr 29, 2011)

I hate people who rip you off because they can


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## carvedog (May 11, 2005)

didn't know an Nrs 15 footer 
NRS E-150 Self-Bailing Rafts at NRSweb.com

is worth $800 more than a 14 foot Avon. 
Avon Inflatables

There have some great deals here that have been popping up. An E-140 for $600 less and looks good if you can tolerate yellow. I couldn't.

NRS Self-Bailing Paddle Raft Package - Mountain Buzz Gear Swap

Here is a 14 foot Nrs Otter with oars and frame for $700 less
Show Ad | - 14' NRS Raft For Sale - CA - Kernville - USA - RaftsNRS Community

Sotar outfitter for $2500
Show Ad | - Sotar 14ft ST and 12 ft SL - CA - Angels Camp - USA - RaftsNRS Community

Do you need the 15 footer? Need to carry 3 people and you for a week at a time?
Are you day boating? Fishing? For light duty I would want a 13 or 14 footer. My buddy does 6-7 days and GC trips in his Avon 14 foot. 

A 15 footer would be perfect for me doing high water Middle Fork Salmon trips and very low flow fall trips. It's just a little big for day tripping. Unless you have six or seven people to put in a paddle boat. Just thinking out loud here. I don't know what you want to do. Have you done multiday trips? Getting ready? Then it is the right size. 

All depends.

For the original raft I think $2,200 to $2,500 would be my max. Take cash. Nothing talks like the Benjamins.


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## FatmanZ (Sep 15, 2004)

Outfitters pay what, anywhere from 25-40% below retail price, depending on volume? Retail raft prices increase somewhere between 3-5% a year. Plus what about tax depreciation. 
Most outfitters sell their used rafts for at least what they paid for them, if not more more, assuming they are in good condition, right? In short, they sell them for the going market rate. 

Does that mean they're ripping people off? Or are they doing what any business does, sell a product for the going rate?


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## TriBri1 (Nov 15, 2011)

FatmanZ said:


> Outfitters pay what, anywhere from 25-40% below retail price, depending on volume? Retail raft prices increase somewhere between 3-5% a year. Plus what about tax depreciation.
> Most outfitters sell their used rafts for at least what they paid for them, if not more more, assuming they are in good condition, right? In short, they sell them for the going market rate.
> 
> Does that mean they're ripping people off? Or are they doing what any business does, sell a product for the going rate?


I agree, the price is based on the going rate, not what the seller originally paid. Unless you have a hookup with an outfitter, you can't pay that price anyway. So it really does not matter.

One thing to add though, the outfitter warranty on NRS boats is only good for 5 years as opposed to the 10 year private warranty. As a second owner you may or may not get the warranty passed to you, but it is good to note that NRS believes commercial boats get run through the paces more than a private boat. So if the boats are in good shape then go for them and of course deal as low as you can go... Good luck.


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## Avatard (Apr 29, 2011)

FatmanZ said:


> Does that mean they're ripping people off? Or are they doing what any business does, sell a product for the going rate?


I'm not gonna show a lot of love for outfitters after getting skunked on the MFS for seven consecutive years. Yeah, i could just pay another $1400 per person and go with an outfitter, but i dont want to subsidize the businesses that make these used boat deals possible while making my winning of the lottery "less possible" 

(bitter loser)


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## dirtbagkayaker (Oct 29, 2008)

FatmanZ said:


> Outfitters pay what, anywhere from 25-40% below retail price, depending on volume? Retail raft prices increase somewhere between 3-5% a year. Plus what about tax depreciation.
> Most outfitters sell their used rafts for at least what they paid for them, if not more more, assuming they are in good condition, right? In short, they sell them for the going market rate.
> 
> Does that mean they're ripping people off? Or are they doing what any business does, sell a product for the going rate?


Cool who offers 40% off large fleight orders? I have a customer who is looking at buying 15 boats. I haven't even been able to find 25% off. I found 20% but needed to be ordered in November. Any help would be nice.


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## TriBri1 (Nov 15, 2011)

dirtbagkayaker said:


> Cool who offers 40% off large fleight orders? I have a customer who is looking at buying 15 boats. I haven't even been able to find 25% off. I found 20% but needed to be ordered in November. Any help would be nice.


Ten years ago, NRS used to have a preseason discount around 40% for orders of 10 or more. With decreasing margins, those days are long gone. they still offer quantity discounts year round though. If you are a business then give them a call, they should be able to hook you up.


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## dirtbagkayaker (Oct 29, 2008)

TriBri1 said:


> Ten years ago, NRS used to have a preseason discount around 40% for orders of 10 or more. With decreasing margins, those days are long gone. they still offer quantity discounts year round though. If you are a business then give them a call, they should be able to hook you up.


I worked for NRS in the 90's as I was attending UofI. I don't remember them offering deep discounts like that to anybody. I am also good friends with Todd Benson @ NRS. I have already contacted him and I am hear to let you know that NRS doesn't offer those type of deep discounts. Nor have they ever! They just don't have a profit margin that allows that kind of pricing.


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## caverdan (Aug 27, 2004)

From the NRS web site, it looks like a new one is about $5400. With that as a starting point, just a wag here.... but I'm betting he paid less than $5000.00 a boat. I would start with an offer of $2500.00 and go from there. I too would have the green stuff in hand and buy them on the spot instead of striking a deal through E-mail or by phone. In person....cash in hand....money talks.


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## matt cook (Dec 15, 2009)

I think they're closer to 4k for outfitters, a little less for bulk orders. The outfitter's name wouldn't happen to ryhme with "piled to tiled" would it?


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## TonyM (Apr 17, 2006)

Does the color really matter?


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## carvedog (May 11, 2005)

TonyM said:


> Does the color really matter?


To me it does. 

White boat is ok. Yellow boat is not. I would still boat with those running yellow boats. When I see someone driving a yellow car it always makes me wonder........

To a lesser extent with a boat but it still is of some concern.


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## BCJ (Mar 3, 2008)

Boat value/price is an interesting topic. I've bought and sold 6 or 7 rafts and 4 dories in my 30 year boating history. So a few observations: Professional retail traders (cars, boats, stocks) observe - - you make your money when you buy, not when you sell. Point is to look at what something will be worth after you've owned it for awhile and get ready to sell it. Now, with something you intend to use for recreation, and it is not just for profit, you have to temper that theory with what the "fun"is costing you. The boat will depreciate, but less if it's good quality. Then there is opportunity - - how often do you find that boat for sale? Used Avons, for example, are extremely hard to find (wonder why?). So if you find one of those, pay a premium. They also don't depreciate as quickly. What about personal enjoyment? Better gear makes a river trip more enjoyable. Feels good to have a solid boat vs. "old sizzler." So if you spread out the cost of the gear, what does it cost you "per trip"? Amortizing the cost that way justifies paying a little more and takes the edge of that desire to get "the best deal." I.e., you can rationalize the cost, whatever it is, by focusing more on your ability to go boating. Last raft I bought was an Avon Pro SB and I paid $5K for the boat, frame, boxes, oars, etc. When I saw it I grabbed it - - did not hold out for a better deal because they come up very rarely. So now, after using it 5 years, I can subtract what I might sell it for (don't ask - - it's not for sale!) and calculate what it cost me per trip or per day on the river and it's not an issue. Even if I sold it for 1/2 what I paid (not a chance) it's only costing me $500 a season to have really good equipment. Final note, tradesmen also have a good rule re: tools (boat is just a tool): buy the best you can afford to be happy with the purchase. An outfitter thinks more about proift than a private boater. Bankers and real estate people tend to think everything on earth "appreciates over time" or at least shouldn't lose any value. This just ain't so with something like a boat.


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## TriBri1 (Nov 15, 2011)

carvedog said:


> To me it does.
> 
> White boat is ok. Yellow boat is not. I would still boat with those running yellow boats. When I see someone driving a yellow car it always makes me wonder........
> 
> To a lesser extent with a boat but it still is of some concern.


I think yellow is a fine color for a boat, I love the yellow Sotars. It is purple you have to worry about, remember boys are blue and girls are pink don't make purple.


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## idahofloater (Feb 23, 2011)

TonyM said:


> Does the color really matter?


Not really. My YELLOW boat does attract the bugs when they are out and reflects a good amount of light. My GREEN boat gets so fawken hot in the sun I can't touch the tubes without watering them down. So, color may matter???

@BCJ nice write up..


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