# Grand Canyon Climbing



## PhilM (May 19, 2009)

Hey Guys, 

I've tried searching but can't seem to find anything relevant....

I'm going on a 21 day Grand Canyon trip in April / May and had heard that there may be some climbing to be had from some of the camps on the way down.

Does anyone have any more info. as to where and what gear to bring? There are about 4 climbers in the group, probably climbing between 5.6 and 5.11. We have 5 rafts and 7 kayaks on our trip, but I don't want to burden the rafts with too much gear, especially if it won't be needed. 

I was thinking of keeping it to a minimum and taking rope, harness, chalkbag, shoes and a set of nuts and just doing some toproping, but if it's worth it I could toss in some friends and a bit more gear for leading....

Any info. would be much appreciated.

Cheers


----------



## nemi west (Jun 22, 2006)

tommy caldwell - Google Search


----------



## boof512 (Oct 26, 2003)

*nemi*

Look at you Nemi.. Promoting a guy who owes you 15 bucks.. It´s good to see you got over it.


----------



## coloclimber512 (Aug 29, 2009)

There is a ton of climbing potential in the canyon. I know some of the temples have routes up them. I'm sure you could find something to climb at just about any camp as well. I would go with a FA mindset, triple set of cams to #3 BD Camalot, small set of wires, a hand drill, some bolts/ hangers and some cord for anchors. 

Good luck, here's a bit of info on MP.
Mountain Project: Climbing Northern Arizona > Grand Canyon National Park


----------



## Leland (Jan 25, 2004)

coloclimber512 said:


> ...a hand drill, some bolts/ hangers and some cord for anchors.


Are you really suggesting drilling bolts in the GC?? I personally think that is totally unacceptable. The canyon is hammered enough by people already without having holes drilled in it. What's more, most of the rock is so soft that I would be wary of taking anything more than a toprope fall on a bolt down there anyway.

I suggest just taking shoes and bouldering around a bit.


----------



## coloclimber512 (Aug 29, 2009)

Leland said:


> Are you really suggesting drilling bolts in the GC?? I personally think that is totally unacceptable. The canyon is hammered enough by people already without having holes drilled in it. What's more, most of the rock is so soft that I would be wary of taking anything more than a toprope fall on a bolt down there anyway.
> 
> I suggest just taking shoes and bouldering around a bit.



Yes, Leland. With no dis respect, I have suggested putting in some bolt anchors for those guys if they do attempt any new routing. Which there are plenty of new routes to be climbed in the GC. Of all grades. I take it that you haven't done much climbing in the past. But typically unless there is a walk off decent you will probably need to rappell down at some point. Bolt anchors are strong in ALL types of rock, as long as the installer is using the right gear for the type of rock being climbed. In my opinion most of the rock quality in the GC is pretty good. There are some formations that probably would not react to climbing so well. ie: the Tapeats Sandstone formation. But the limestones, granite, and more durable sandstone formations are very good for climbing. Also, most of these anchors you wouldnt even see unless you are looking for them or knew their exact placment. So I doubt this is going to ruin your experience. I'm sure there is few sets of anchors in the canyon already. Didn't see them on my trip down. The only bolt anchors I vaguely remember from my trip down were for rafts to be tied to at Havasu, I could be mistaken though as it didn't concern me much and we were not rafting so didn't need them.

Although, I have only been down the GC once I did not see that the GC was getting hammered by people let alone being ruined by a couple bolt anchors to get off of a climbing route. I was surprised by the lack of trash, including micro trash for the entire length of the trip. Which I thought was awesome! Considering the thousands of people that go down each year. That could be the time of year we were in there or most people are just responsible and clean up after themselves. 

I feel that climbing in the GC would be a great time. I would do it responsibly, use bolts or anchors only where needed, use natural or clean protection as much as possible. Try to excersise the walk off decent if its there.


----------



## stuntsheriff (Jun 3, 2009)

Grrrrrrrrrrrr


----------



## moetown (May 8, 2007)

*Bolts Illegal*

Bolts are illegal within the GCNP. Basejumping is also illegal within the GCNP as found out by McNamara on the TOmmy Caldwell trip. He was banned from the Park for 5 years and given a hefty fine. If the Park was lucky enough to catch you in the act, the TL and trip might get a free helicopter ride out. 

Probably shouldn't be climbing overhead if you can't build a traditional anchor. The Canyoneers have become quite proficient in traditional anchors. One technique they use is drystacking a pile of rocks with webbing around it:0 Pretty hard to do for the first time if you've been rapping off of bolts.

If you can con your trip into camping at Badger, there's some multi pitch cracks that go way high. Bring OW pro. Every once in awhile you will hit a solo bat that will send the tinglers up your back hairs 

I've found, unless your trip is all about climbing, you will have a hard time encouraging the group to wait for someone climbing except bouldering at stops or in camp. 

Checkout Grand Canyoneering by Todd Martin, best guidebook I've seen!

Brady


----------



## coloclimber512 (Aug 29, 2009)

moetown said:


> Bolts are illegal within the GCNP. Basejumping is also illegal within the GCNP as found out by McNamara on the TOmmy Caldwell trip.


Where have you read that bolts are illegal in Grand Canyon National Park? I have checked the NPS website and I didn't see where it stated that or had any information for climbing. Secondly, there are sport climbs within the parks boundaries published on the link I posted above. So I doubt there is a bolting ban within the park, if there was it would most likely be noted on their website as well. If there is I will stand corrected. With that said, most National Parks DO NOT allow motorized drills. That is why I recommended bringing a hand drill. Because they do allow bolts to be placed by hand. 

BASE jumping however, is illegal in the park. That why he was banned for five years. Not for placing bolts.

With the rack I described above and the OPs group climbing in good style. They will have fun or maybe they will be enjoying the river so much that they won't have time to climb. But, the gear is on the raft.


----------



## nemi west (Jun 22, 2006)

boof512 said:


> Look at you Nemi.. Promoting a guy who owes you 15 bucks.. It´s good to see you got over it.



I figure if I keep promoting him he can pay me the 15 bucks....... I was his agent for the talks to get him on the Citibank commercial. Alex agreed to do it for 37.00 and new tires for his van and free low alcohol beer in Moab. 

And I agree..... unless your group is all about climbing it will be hard to get a lot of climbing in on a Raft trip without a motor....... but not impossible, and there is a shit ton of sick walls down in there.


----------



## toney (Jan 1, 2013)

The beach at tuckup canyon has a nice wall, i have done some bouldering there but you could top rope it and make some nice routes.


----------



## 3d3vart (Apr 15, 2010)

Grand Canyon Summits Select by Tomasi

Can be hard to find, but it's a gem.

Grand Canyon summits select: An obscure compilation of sixty-nine remote ascent routes in the Grand Canyon National Park backcountry: Aaron Tomasi: 9780971088009: Amazon.com: Books


----------



## richp (Feb 27, 2005)

Hi,

Google isn't my helpful friend on this, but I have a hard time believing that the Park would allow any drilling for bolts. Being as virtually the entire Park outside the river corridor is a wilderness area, it seems highly unlikely any permanent modifications of that type would be OK.

Yes, there are some fixed hardware items at river level in a couple of places. Quite frankly, I'm surprised the Park hasn't removed them. They seemed to be awfully concerned about Shorty Burton's memorial pie tin being nailed into a rock below Upset. 

FWIW, and I could be wrong.

Rich Phillips


----------



## F.A.A.C. Slim (Jan 14, 2010)

As I understand that the recent GC flood flows failed to distribute the desired amount of sand to the desired spots of beach etc. I'd say drill baby drill and you ought to get the NPS to pay for your trip because you will be contributing to the sand distribution. Or, as Ed would have said, "don't wory about damage from a few bolts when there are 2 damn dams completely ruining the whole river".


----------



## Leland (Jan 25, 2004)

coloclimber512 said:


> I take it that you haven't done much climbing in the past.


Actually, I climbed 100+ days/year for about 5 years, drove around the country living in my car and climbing every day for months on end several times, taught rock climbing all summer for 7 summers, etc.

And I definitely do not believe that bolts should be drilled in GCNP, especially in the river corridor where lots of people go, especially so that people can climb a route once and then leave their trash in the rock. Either figure out how to protect it with trad gear, nut up and run it out, or climb somewhere else.


----------



## TriBri1 (Nov 15, 2011)

richp said:


> Hi,
> 
> Google isn't my helpful friend on this, but I have a hard time believing that the Park would allow any drilling for bolts. Being as virtually the entire Park outside the river corridor is a wilderness area, it seems highly unlikely any permanent modifications of that type would be OK.
> 
> ...


I don't think the NPS has a law of the land that oversees all parks as far as drilling goes. Most parks have a ban on power drills but hand drilling is ok, some have a permit/approval by route system and others have a moratorium unless it is to replace failing bolts. I have drilled up my share of routes, but I would not waste the time or the money to bolt up a face that so few people will ever climb.

I considered bringing climbing gear on my last trip and decided against it. I felt I would be hauling a ton of gear down the river so I could climb maybe once or twice if it happened to work out. I did bring my climbing shoes so I could boulder and left the chalk at home. I bouldered a little, but played it super conservative since that last thing I wanted to do was roll and ankle. The only time I wanted to climb was on the hike at Fern Glen when I got cliffed out. There looked like a great 5.7 crack that would have kept me going a bit further.

If you really want to do some technical climbs than go for it. I think you will find plenty of routes were you don't need to hang fixed gear. If you don't bring your gear, you won't miss it much. There is so much hiking, bouldering and exploring to do without gear, you'll have a blast.


----------



## coloclimber512 (Aug 29, 2009)

Wow, a bolting debate on the Buzz. I'm not talking about putting up a sport climb or even a supplementary bolt. The anchors I was talking about was for rapping the route if there is not a walk off or natural anchor available. Hence, First Accent mindset. Not always do you need to put in fixed gear. But sometimes it is required. I suppose one could leave a couple hundred dollars worth of cams behind, possibly might be able to fix a wire, or down aid the pitch if thats possible to retrive gear. Not sure about you but I am not willing to stack some rocks on top and rap a 100 foot pitch as suggested by another poster. Those tactics are not very realistic when repelling of most climbing routes. 

I'm not looking to high jack the OPs thread nor get into a bolting debate. He asked what gear to bring and I listed what I would bring with me. The fact is when using a hand drill you can place bolts to your little hearts content within the GCNP and the river corridor. There are no bans in place other than you can not use a motorized drill. The rules are the same for most National Parks as well as Wilderness Areas. Luckily, the mindset of most climbers these days is to use bolts sparingly, while bolting on lead. If people established some decent routes I'm sure if they were documented they would get climbed again. 

OP, After reading Tommy Caldwells TR I would say don't take any climbing gear, the routes and rock in the GC suck.


----------



## fella (Jul 29, 2008)

*If I recall*

I believe John Middendorf established a whole bunch of routes in the GCNP. Probably alot of dicey hard aid stuff. 

Anyhow, you might google his GC efforts. There might be some beta / insights on Canyon Climbing.


IMHO, though, unless you are willing to committ a whole lot of time to scoping, exploring, FA'ing a route or two, it is not worth it to half-ass it gear wise, and time wise. In my recollection, the rock that looked really worthy also looked like a lot of effort.

Good luck.


----------



## moetown (May 8, 2007)

*Grand Canyoneering*

Grand Canyoneering | Dan Ransom Photography

Recently Canyoneers have been on the forefront of anchor ethics and exploration in the Grand Canyon. With boldness, and intelligence they are etching out the immediate future of Grand Canyon Exploration for descenders AND ascenders. Nothing they are doing cannot be reproduced on a ground up ethic. In fact, the climbing forefathers started this traditional movement years ago but....

The future is the next generation. Hopefully climbers that step forward will do so with boldness and open mind,

Brady


----------



## coloclimber512 (Aug 29, 2009)

moetown said:


> Grand Canyoneering | Dan Ransom Photography
> 
> Recently Canyoneers have been on the forefront of anchor ethics and exploration in the Grand Canyon. With boldness, and intelligence they are etching out the immediate future of Grand Canyon Exploration for descenders AND ascenders. Nothing they are doing cannot be reproduced on a ground up ethic. In fact, the climbing forefathers started this traditional movement years ago but....
> 
> ...


Brady, Did you miss the part around 3:09 in the video where they were fixing a sling for an anchor? How is that the forefront of anchor ethics?


----------



## moetown (May 8, 2007)

*Anchor Rules, Breakout your Juevos Especiales! Ole!*

GCNP Rules clearly allows the use of black webbing. No bolts. The Sling is around a temporary chockstone(preferred anchor technique), not a bolt. Drystack piles (for a lack of better words) are legal. Obviously this technique is for rapelling only as a fall would probably precipitate anchor failure. 

Your bolting suggestions are illegal Sorry? 

There are some old dam spikes(?) drilled into the rock somewhere around Red Wall Cavern?? That would be an awesome linkup for someone with the knowledge, skills and the juevos rancheros. Breakout the avos for a genuine Aztecan Bull fight.

So there was this American Climber that was traveling in Mexico. After weeks of digging through trashcans for food he came across this incredible restaurant beside a bullfighting arena. It was cheap, cheap. Se Vende JUEVOS ESPECIALES. Now if you don't know, Juevos especiales its a mexican specialty and fresh near any Bullfighting arena. Juevos Especiales!! Everyday he ordered the juevos especiales. They were Ginormous! Off breakfast juevos especiales alone he ate lunch and dinner. Everyday he would order the Juevos Especiales. One day after the big climb he traveled to the restaurant and asked the waiter for the Juevos especiales. The waiter said OK Senor, and brought him the smallest little juevos and took his money. The climber looked at his little juevos and grimaced. Waiter?? Everyday I come and get the greatest dish the juevos especiales and I eat for the total dia? But today these paltry juevos??I am so Hungry? What have I done?? THe waiter breathed a deep sigh and said SENOR, Not everyday does the Juevos come from the Bull. Today El Juevos Especiales de Jose!

Brady


----------



## coloclimber512 (Aug 29, 2009)

Brady, provide your source of the fixed gear regulations for GCNP. You seem to be the only one who knows them. Prove it, betcha can't. Because there is no rule. Sorry


----------



## TriBri1 (Nov 15, 2011)

To move away from "to bolt or not to bolt..." I found this trip report to be a fun read. I think I checked it out before my trip in 2010 as wellm 18 Days in the Grand Canyon - A climbing Trip Report :: SuperTopo Rock Climbing Discussion Topic, It would give you a good idea on what is at river level to be had.

On the "to bolt or not to bolt" grudge match. I have an email out to the park service asking what their official stance is and asked for documentation in their regulations. I'll keep you posted.


----------



## coloclimber512 (Aug 29, 2009)

At the bottom of the page are a couple videos too. The climbing looks pretty sweet!

Video Of Beth Rodden & Tommy Caldwell Climbing In The Grand Canyon | Climbing Narcissist


----------



## moetown (May 8, 2007)

*NPS in a pretzel hold*

Awesome video and photos!. Tommy's trip was specifically catered for climbers. Notice the camping in rocks, etc. Also, most camp chores were prolly handled by the guides, another plus as time is limited. If one wanted to do any extensive climbing (which I would be one), it would prolly work best if the whole trips was made up of climbers. Not your typical rivertrip.

Not trying to get in a grudge match, just the facts here Friday. People have been busted for bolts in the Canyon in the past. Sounds like someones doing the homework, so that will work out there

Last year a climber decided to rappel the Deer Creek Falls and got his rope stuck. Instead of taking care of his problem he just left it Canyoneers heard of the arrant rope and ran in to remove it. The rivertrip was fined, and Deer Creek Narrows was closed for good. So now no one will be able to visit that area again We should prolly be more careful and respectful of the area so more closures don't occur? It's good that someones checking with the park to clear up the rules because we wouldn't want to bring more restrictions than there already are?

Reminds me of Rocket the Climbing Rassler. There once was this wrestling coach PE teacher. Every year Coach gets beat by the rival school. This year it looks like there will be no change The coach has gone over it and over it. He was sure to lose by a match. While sulking one day in gym class he sees Rocket climbing the rock wall. He is amazing. One handed pull ups, two finger monkey swings HE IS STRONG! and physically smart. He can master any problem. Suddenly the coach has an idea! Rocket should wrestle. For weeks Coach trains Rocket for the big match. Now Rocket, Your wrestler Luigi is an exchange student from Italy, and he only has one move, but he is really good at it. He as pinned everyone with his one move. THE PRETZEL! If you can stay out of the Pretzel you will surely win. OK Coach. Well after days of practicing staying out of the Pretzel he gets to the big match, and Luigi and Rocket are the last match. It's tied. The match begins. For two periods Rocket is winning, he is too strong for the pretzel, and the coach is amazed. Finally after all these years we are going to win he tells the manager. In the next second Luigi has contorted his body around ROcket and he has Rocket in the tightest Pretzel anyone has ever seen A great sigh goes over the stands. Just when the Referee is about to slam the mat, a wrestler gives out a yell and all of a sudden Rocket jumps out on top and Pins Luigi the undefeated wrestler. The stands go crazy, and ROcket is showered with praise. Between all of the texting, and girls phone #'s being passed to Rocket the Coach asks Rocket, how did you do it? How did you get out of the Pretzel? You must tell me! Well coach, I was in the pretzel thinking I'm done, what can I do? when I saw these testicles right in front of my face? So I bit them as hard as I can!?! What?? Coach asked? You bit your opponents balls? That's not legal! Uh... no coach.. I didn't do anything illegal. I bit my own balls!! You would be amazed at what you can do when someone bites his own balls!!

If I win? you have to bite your own bean bags? Hee hee

Brady


----------



## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

Perhaps the person to contact is Rich Rudow regarding not just the rules but the philosophy of the ethics in the park regarding anchors and bolts. The webbing is only slightly contentious, and bolting outright scorned if not disallowed. At least he could give a "locals" viewpoint of someone who is a leader in group of people favoring descending the canyon on 400' rappel's from webbing anchors. He can be messaged from the gcpba yahoo group.


----------



## coloclimber512 (Aug 29, 2009)

I appreciate everyone's advice on this topic. I will await TriBri's reply. It appears to me that GCNP does not even have a climbing management plan in place. Why, you might ask? Because nobody really climbs in the Grand Canyon. So the park service does not feel the need to put regulations in place. As of right now there really is no need for one. I like how blown out of proportion this thread has got. It's pretty simple to find the fixed gear regulation on the NPS website for every other NP. Usually the climbing management plan for bolting looks like this:

Yosemite
Bolting Policy & New Routes - Yosemite National Park

Black Canyon of the Gunnison
http://www.nps.gov/blca/planyourvisit/upload/BLCA_climbing_plan.pdf

Arches National Park
Rock Climbing - Arches National Park

Mount Rushmore National Park
http://www.nps.gov/moru/parkmgmt/upload/Climbing-Regs46.pdf


----------



## shappattack (Jul 17, 2008)

Not that I am in favor of bolting in the Grand Canyon, but I have put up long multipitch routes in other areas (mixed routes with bolts in wilderness). I have even put up a couple routes in the Main Salmon River Canyon, leaving some fixed pins to rap. In all of these cases no one but a climber would have a chance of even noticing any fixed gear what so ever. It is very possible to leave fixed gear that is camoflouged and that would go complete unoticed by anyone not looking to repeat the route.

For example, the giant wall below has several hundred hundred bolts on it (all done by hand drill) with several routes from 8 to near 20 pitches long, and no body but a climber would have a chance of ever seeing them let alone make it to the base of this wall, even though a hiking trail passes within about 1 mile of the base (as the crow flies). It is in a wilderness.










Here is another crag. There are fixed rap anchors at the top, it is in a wilderness, can you see the anchors, are they offensive?


----------



## Leland (Jan 25, 2004)

Here are some more thoughts on this.

First, I don't think the management plan has that much bearing. Just because something is not expressly forbidden by law doesn't mean you should do it.

Relating to the quality of rock in the Canyon - I've spent a lot of time in there: 23 days on a river trip, 5 different week-long backpacking/canyoneering trips, and another 26 day backpacking/canyoneering trip. I took shoes with me on all trips, and on all but one of the backpacking trips we had ropes and small trad racks. What you find with regard to quality of rock is mostly that the water eroded surfaces along the river itself and on the lower walls of the side canyons have the best rock. No matter which formation, all of the wind eroded surfaces tend to be pretty crumbly (with a very few exceptions). What this means is that most of the decent climbing is by nature pretty much right where most of the people travel, and the place you would most likely leave a bolt to rap because the rock gets crappy is about 50-60 feet off the deck in plain view of where many people are having the most remote wilderness experience of their lives. That is the main reason why I don't think it's appropriate to take a bolt drill on a river trip in GCNP.

As far as gear goes, active cams are king down there. I have rarely (if ever) found a nut placement that I was super stoked about because even the water eroded rocks are crumbly. In fact, I tend to go as close to over-camming my placements as possible because in most cases the rock will grind off to some degree and the cracks widen when you weight them.

Because the really solid rock generally only extends 50-60 feet off the deck in the canyon (I'd say that Caldwell article somewhat backs that up), your best bet is to enjoy bouldering and perhaps some climbing in the context of canyoneering in the slot canyons.

The best way to climb in the GC is to hike in from the top and then drop into the slots. That way you can leave your gear and fixed ropes, attempt to climb back up, and ascend your fixed lines if that doesn't work and take your gear with you, leaving no trace.


----------



## brandob9 (Jun 13, 2010)

I'm staying out of the anchoring debate, but we brought climbing gear on our canyon trip a couple of years ago, mostly as a safety item. We broke it out for a layover day at a camp on river right at mile 216. That camp backed into a 50-60' wall with a perch, and an easy walk around to the top to build an anchor around to the right. It was a grand old time.


----------



## richp (Feb 27, 2005)

Hi,

Here is a technical bulletin put out by the Park evidently in 2011, and available in the GCPBA listserv Files section. It clearly says new bolts are not permitted.

http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/IIMaUT...nyon Technical Canyoneering Site Bulletin.pdf

You can also access it via this forum

News Grand Canyon Technical Canyoneering site bulletin

FWIW.

Rich Phillips


----------



## coloclimber512 (Aug 29, 2009)

Good find Rich. 

That backs up Brady's claim for black webbing. He knows his stuff when it comes to Technical Canyoneering.


----------



## PhilM (May 19, 2009)

Thanks for all of the advice guys.

As far as our trip is concerned, bolting will definitely not be an issue due to me being generally against bolting and that we are trying to keep weight to a minimum. 

Leland, that's the exact info. I was looking for....It seems like for what we want to do our main focus will be bouldering, short routes with fairly straightforward descents and a bit of canyoning. I'm thinking 60m 10mm rope, one set of nuts, one or two sets of cams and a couple of slings.

It seems a lot of climbing interest (from Tommy Caldwell's article) is in the 1st 40 miles, plus the camp at mile 216 (thanks Brandob9).

Any further suggestions would be great, especially recommendations for layover camps.


----------



## natepelton (Feb 24, 2011)

*Parashant*

In early Dec 2012 we passed a rafting group climbing at Parashant (199) within view from the river.


----------



## Cookie (Mar 5, 2011)

I took shoes and a chalk bag on my first trip. Bouldered around a bit in the Redwall Cavern, at Above Nevills (75 mile canyon) camp, and a few other places. I mostly found the rock to be either very sharp or of poor quality, but I didn't look that hard. I think it would take a very dedicated group of rafting climbers to accomplish any worthy routes as the main goal is usually to drink as much as possible while on the river and then play bocce ball when you get to camp... that or hike as far as you can.

There are so many good hikes to do that I usually ended up passing up nice looking routes just because I wanted to see what was further up canyon! On my last trip I didn't take out my climbing shoes once, but I did see some enticing looking cracks, most notably a few moderate looking ones in the first 1/2 mile of Tuckup (smooth muav limestone), and a killer splitter just downstream of Lava Falls on river left (above Little Lava and probably best reached from the scout on river left or Just Above Lava camp).


----------



## moetown (May 8, 2007)

*Climbs*

Vishnu Temple 5.10 All day Summit out the back of Phantom

Monument Spire up Monument Canyon out the Back of Granite Camp All day required 5.12 to Aid I believe

Ruby Buttress(RL) at Ruby Rapid has been climbed 5.8 THere are more route opportunities there

Overboard Rapid(150 mile camp has dihedrals, and block roofs) Same rocks as Mat Kat I believe.

Travertine Canyon 229 (Grotto) Conglomerate High Ball Bouldering or Top rope from the top of the SLot

244 Sculpted Granite SLot Canyon ascension The Real climbing starts about 800 feet up in the amphitheatre 5.8 first pitch, 5.9 second pitch, the rest is up to you

244.5 RL Ocotillo Boulders to Books Camp Look up to the left just past the 244 slot canyon that climbs sculpted granite and there is a lone ocotillo on a flat rock 40ft above the river. Giant boulders wind up 600 ft to base of wall where there are granite cracks, and books

245 River Left 40 feet up 50 splitter crack splitting a Giant Granite Boulder FA

246 Spencer Towers Previously climbed, Granite wall over River downstream of Mouth of Canyon looks fun

249 Surprise Canyon Granite Cracks everywhere 200 yards up river RL 100 ft buttress with 5.7, 5.9, 5.11 crack and face climbing. There is a Giant Chock stone slammed into crack with webbing. Lots of potential for other natural anchors above all cracks. Lots of traditional protection available.

Brady


----------



## shappattack (Jul 17, 2008)

moetown said:


> 249 Surprise Canyon Granite Cracks everywhere 200 yards up river RL 100 ft buttress with 5.7, 5.9, 5.11 crack and face climbing. There is a Giant Chock stone slammed into crack with webbing. Lots of potential for other natural anchors above all cracks. Lots of traditional protection available.


Sounds like a winner!


----------



## Tom Martin (Dec 5, 2004)

Hi Phil, there is a lot of climbing to do in GC. Pick a wall, any wall, and chances are you will be pioneering a route, except at a few well known routes. 

As has been mentioned, Parashant is good because the climbing wall can be top roped and it is in the afternoon shade. As Brady points out, if you layover at Granite, you can climb the class 6 Monument up Monument Creek. Get your hands on Pernell and Aaron Tomasi's Grand Canyon Summits Select II for the best beta on that climb. 

Don't forget the Grapevine Buttress:
Regular Route - Grapevine Buttress - Grand Canyon, Arizona, USA

Sooo many wonderful climbs, but again, Brady has it right, your river team needs to be geared to climb. Like hiking trips need to be geared to hike. 

Do your own looksee at the maps before you head on out there. Climbing Vishnu from Unkar or Rattlesnake works, not from Phantom. 

And Brady was holding out by not mentioning Clay Tanks Castle in the west end. The write-up for that one is here:

Yahoo! Groups

So much wall and so little time... The rock is sharp, and will come off in your hands in big blocks, but once you get to know it, what fun can be had! Don't clean the routes though as you never know if the rock you just launched was the one you really needed! Oh, and leave your bolts at home :>)

All the best, yours, tom


----------



## moetown (May 8, 2007)

*Surprise Pre-Cambrian Schist*

After a check on Durango Bills site it appears the lower gorge climbing around surprise is Pre-cambrian schist. 

Grand Canyon 3-D Tour


----------



## PhilM (May 19, 2009)

Hey Guys.

Thanks a lot for all of the feedback; I really appreciate it and it's going to make an amazing trip even better! 

Last question - the outfitter we're using is based in Flagstaff, but there are 5 of us on the trip who need to fly out of Vegas, so were thinking of getting dropped off in Peach Springs on the way, and getting a private car pick up from there. 

I've tried calling a lot of companies in the area, but they either don't want to go that far from Vegas or don't have a roof rack....

Does anyone know of a limo / private car company with roof rack / trailer which do a good rate for 5 people from Peach Springs to LAX?

Or does anyone know someone with a decent size car with a few hours spare on the 4th May who wants to make a bit of cash?

Cheers
Phil


----------



## moetown (May 8, 2007)

*Green Car Company*

Phil,

Try the Green Car Company 928 607 3757

Let me know how it goes?

BRady 

Mountain Project: Climbing Northern Arizona > Zoroaster Temple

Zoraster Temple not Vishnu


----------



## PhilM (May 19, 2009)

Thanks Brady, I did call them but they said it would be $600 as I guess it's a bit out of their way. We've got a better quote from a company in Kingman at around $400 ish so might just go with that.

Thanks all the same.

Phil


----------



## moetown (May 8, 2007)

*River Runners*

Phil,

Is it River Runners Shuttle Service? rrshuttleservice.com?

Sounds like a great deal even without kayaks.

River Runners has been running a $55/person special from Pierce - Vegas this last year and it seems like a great deal too. If you are willing to sleep on the boats(no brainer for me), you can save $1200+ on Huali fees, and end up at Pierce which is only 1.5 hrs from Vegas. Being able to takeout at 7am also puts you back in Flagstaff at 1 pm. Folks at Diamond Creek have just hit the top of the road, and are 2+ hrs behind.

Brady


----------



## Elkhermes (Dec 23, 2012)

New to the buzz, first post here too.

Try desert river kayak out of Bullhead City. http://www.desertriveroutfitters.com/welcome.htm
I've used them a few times. The owner, Helen, has a great reputation. 
Don't know if they'll shuttle from Peach Springs to LAX, but worth asking.


----------



## HellenKellersGyno (Feb 6, 2013)

I dont know how the Hualapai feels about it, or what the fees would be. But there seems to be some established routes along Diamond Creek Rd if you're doing your shuttle to Peach Springs. I've never really looked at them closely tho


----------

