# Etiquette Question



## drewski (Jul 5, 2017)

Float fished upper C yesterday from Pumphouse to Radium, busiest I have ever seen it. Floating through the canyon and fishing our way down and a guy chews me out for “being in the way” saying I should eddy out to let his raft and another raft get by. I could understand and if I was backrowing in order to fish but I was staying in the fastest current possible and maneuvering the boat in order to get down stream safely. Our boat was a 14’ cat with large tubes and 3 adults. One boat was another oar rig with two people and the other was a paddle boat with 4 or 5 people that seemed to not know what they were doing. 
wondering what proper etiquette is? I would’ve thought it is similar to skiing in that down river boat has right of way, I know general maritime law talks about least maneuverable vessel having right of way. There wasn’t a lot of opportunity to eddy out in the section we were in and I will admit I treated them like someone tailgating me after they flipped me off and cussed me out (at that point I wasn’t going to work hard to get to an eddy and felt they could go pound sand). Eventually they passed with plenty of words said. Same guy tries to stare me down when we see them a few hours later at the hot springs. 
wondering if I am in the wrong and should immediately get out of up river boaters way. It was unfortunately an unpleasant interaction that put the damper on an otherwise enjoyable and excellent fishing day.
I should add, I totally understand a fisherman backrowing to fish would annoy someone trying to move down river swiftly but this was not a case of that.


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## Conundrum (Aug 23, 2004)

It’s nice to get out of the way if you can. It’s also nice to politely ask to pass if you’re in a hurry as it’s pretty easy for the lead boat to get in slower water and the faster boat throws a couple oar strokes in. From your story, I’d say whoever was impolite first was the asshole.


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## Conundrum (Aug 23, 2004)

I’d add if someone treated me that way and kept it going at a hot springs later, I’d make sure to point out in front of all parties that the only day he is ruining by being an ass is his own. Go to the river to get away from all that and dismiss those who bring it with them. And get to the side for faster boats…nothing wrong with going slow and enjoying the river for a little longer.


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## Will Amette (Jan 28, 2017)

A few years ago on the Rogue, I was floating through Kelsey Canyon when I noticed a commercial bag boat gaining on me. I wasn't in a particular rush. I was keeping the boat in the current, but I wasn't rowing hard. He would have passed me no matter what, but why make his life hard? I pulled into an eddy and let him by. He thanked me, then recognized my boat and asked, "How often do you come here anyway?" That was the year I did five Rogue trips. Nice to be nice, and nice to have it returned.

Turns out he set up camp right at Kelsey and had a lot of leisure time before his custies showed up. We camped nearby. He took a swim and hiked back up to his camp through ours. He stopped to chat a bit. Nice fellow.

I've also come upon other groups of folks who weren't really rowing and were clearly going slower than I. I try to get past in the flatwater between rapids. Some folks help by letting me have the current. Others start to row harder to keep me from passing. Er.... All that does is maximize the time we have to mix our groups together. We'd all be better off if they just let me through. I get around anyway, but have to fight an eddy current to do so. It's fine. It's the river. I don't cuss at them, though. They just don't get it.

If there's no good place to pull out of the current, then how the hell could you? That's what you do in the flats.


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## Andy H. (Oct 13, 2003)

Sounds like someone's got bigger issues than a slow boat in front of them. Bummer to hear that you had to deal with that, and I think it's part of the reason I avoid the Upper C like the plague. Personally if someone's coming up behind me I like to pull over and let them by. Paddle boats always seem to go a lot faster and anytime I've got one coming up behind me I start scanning for an eddy to let them by. If I'm the faster boat or trying to make miles and I'm coming up on someone, I stay back and wait until we get to a good spot, or ask them if I can pass on the next opportunity. Taking the high road instead of taking the bait when someone's an asshole also goes a long way.


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## zaczac4fun (Mar 21, 2018)

Conundrum said:


> I’d say whoever was impolite first was the asshole.


This. 
Even if you were in the wrong, it's easy enough to say "hey, I'd like to get by when you've got a moment." "Oh sure, one second lemme catch the eddy at the bottom."
Sounds to me like they didn't know what they were doing or how to slow their boat and were covering for their inadequacy by being rude.


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## okieboater (Oct 19, 2004)

Sign of the times we live in. Same stuff happening on high ways and city sidewalks.


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## griz (Sep 19, 2005)

we really need a zombie apocalypse to thin the herd abit.

the easier the run, the more dipshits you’ll run into.


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## jbLaramie (Feb 1, 2021)

Sounds a bit like they were pushy and thought everybody should automatically make way for them without basic etiquette. When we’re the fast boat, usually politely ask/yell what’s the best way to get around them so we don’t mess up their fishing and then do it. Easy peasy even with the territorial fisherman on ABC. When I’m the slow one, usually do what we can to get people past so don’t have to keep thinking and watching out for them behind us.


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## psu96 (May 9, 2006)

I find it's best to offer than wait to be asked. It's hard to assume the situation but if you knew they were catching up to you, a simple eddy catch, sip a beer etc... may have avoided the situation. After the event if it's still bothering someone then that's their own emotional EQ and issues, learn to let it go and enjoy the day.


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## SomeYeahoo (Jul 27, 2020)

I don't like being near anyone, so if I'm catching up to someone, I'm likely to eddy out and let them gain or row hard and try to pass them quickly. If someone caught up to me, I'd pull over. But I agree the obligation is on them if there isn't room to go around you, to ask if they can play through.


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## TonyMancuso (Jun 27, 2016)

I anticipate assholes on the most crowded reaches. Just 'cause it's real don't make it right.

When I want to pass someone, I row up close enough to let them know my intentions (w/o shouting). 60% of the time they're super cool everytime.

If I want to pass someone but I can't even catch up to chat, how the hell do I think I'm capable of passing them in the first place?

Comms fam. Comms.


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## blueotter (Nov 30, 2018)

Usually when I pass fisher people I slap my oars in the water and turn up the boom box to 10. Then maybe I'll do a cannonball to cool off.
Cuz that's how I roll....


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## Benjamin W. (Apr 2, 2020)

Rudeness is never acceptable and it sounds like the guy behind you was being an ass. That said, I always try to pull over if someone is coming up on my rear faster than I am floating. I also appreciate it when they do the same for me.

If you're the person pushing someone else downriver, don't just ride their ass and expect them to get out of the way. Be polite about it. Give them space and some opportunity to pull over. If they aren't or haven't noticed you after a bit, holler at them and ask if you can squeeze past them.


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## Benjamin W. (Apr 2, 2020)

There's not always an eddy, but there is always slackwater or slower current.


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## drewski (Jul 5, 2017)

I appreciate the responses, thanks!


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## jonas_f (May 31, 2007)

Down river traffic has right of way. Just like paddlers in play holes or waves need to move out of the way of down river traffic has always been my expectation. I will be polite with a, “hey folks, you mind if I pass, I’ve got a camp (or river miles) I want to make”? And then I’ll offer them a beer and keep truckin’. Or if they are taking me over, I’ll offer a beer or a joke. We’re here for a good time, not a long time…


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## westwatercuban (May 19, 2021)

I’m sorry you had a bad experience. Never fun. If what you said is true I don’t believe you’re in the wrong. Today the wife and I were doing the town stretch and there was a decent amount of folks on the river. This stretch of the Colorado is wide enough I Never have problems passing besides a few small rapids. I usually keep my distance when it’s narrow or spicy on any river. And when I have the opportunity I pass folks I take it gracefully. Passed a lot of people today. Politely nodded and told a dad and his two girls a joke. Nothing but smiles for miles.


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## Heywood (Apr 12, 2019)

If the guy couldnt pass you then he sucks and should be better. You are not required to pull over if he wants to pass, he needs to make that happen. If he cant then its his problem. It is polite but not necessary to pull over. I generally pull over when this happens because why end up with some annoying asshole ruining your day but its not your responsibility. With that being said, if you see commercial rafts coming up behind you, it is very polite to catch an eddy. They are out there working and probably getting sick of trying to entertain their guests so give them a break if you can.


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## hysideguy67 (Jul 15, 2021)

We row like hell when we see a 28' boat with 52 drybags, 40 sleeping pads and tents and someone on the sticks you can't see cuz they're in an 8' hole coming up on us


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## hysideguy67 (Jul 15, 2021)

Otherwise, agreed. If some gooch is on my ass I pull over, just easier and I'm rarely in that big of a hurry


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## Conundrum (Aug 23, 2004)

Especially if you’re there to fish.


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## gonetogamehenge (May 17, 2009)

I consider myself both a whitewater rafter and a float fisherman, but I disagree with most of the responses so far...

As others have said, it is _nice_ and _considerate_ to pull over for people behind you when possible but I don't feel obligated. The OP asked about proper etiquette. When I am rowing I treat everything in front of me as an obstacle that I must avoid, whether it is a rock, hole, strainer, or another boat. I do not believe it is my responsibility to move out of the way of people who cannot avoid the obstacles in front of them.

Now of course if someone politely asks me to make room I'm happy to oblige when possible.

I also make a point to keep a wide space between myself and any fishing craft as I believe it is rude to run my boat through the water they are fishing. If I cannot stay far enough away from them I make sure to pass on the side that they are not casting towards and let them know I am passing. This gives them a heads up to stop casting for a moment to avoid hitting me or my boat with their back cast.

After all, they were there first. They got up and on the water earlier than I did, and that entitles them to it before me. They get first dibs on launch ramps (that's a whole other can-o'-worms related to river etiquette), campsites, fishing holes, lunch stops, lines, etc...

From the OP's description, it sounds like it occurred near Eye of the Needle (Needle's Eye). The canyon can get tight in areas, especially at lower flows. In my opinion the OP was in the right and the other two boats were the a$$holes.


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## rangerdave141 (7 mo ago)

I was out doing that same run on the same day. Pumphouse to radium is so chill, there's no need for anyone to be upset. Like is the guy mad he didnt get down to the piss infested hot spring fast enough? its an area notorious for fishing/fish floating, the only rapid on the run is only really a rapid at high water. If you're looking to ricky bobby it, this is the wrong run for you. I expect to see a lot of people just casually floating down stream here, every time i go. Either so they can fish, or so they can drink.

I'm new to the rafting game, in fact this past weekend is the first time i've run a raft trip on my own (had two others that know nothing about rivers just along for the ride, ive been WW kayaking for three years now), so it is interesting to hear the conversation on what the etiquette is. But I just don't understand why anyone would be in a rush to do pumphouse to radium. It takes like 2 hours to run it.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

Around here on the MF Flathead the commercials are usually trying to do a 2-hr cycle on a 1.5hr float, so they're pushing the custies pretty hurd.
We generally let them play through and they're good about passing in the slack water and not the rapids.

Last year we were fighing a headwind so I kept the oars moving. I had the front boat of a commercial group try to pass me in 2 consecutive rapids even though I was still 1/8mi in front of their pack.
So I kept leisurely pushing and she kept whipping her crew trying to reel me in. We got farther and farther from their flotilla. I finally let her pass and then she realized where her flotilla was...and she eddied out to wait for them. I waved and smiled real friendly-like.


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## TheAlaskan (Aug 9, 2015)

Ita easy to tell if someone is gaining on you and overall floating faster. Just eddy out for 60 seconds and let them pass (if safe). I'd rather waste a minute than experience a longer time frame of annoyance/uncomfortability. Don't stay in the way out of principle if you can tell they want to pass.

Likewise, if someone isn't getting out of my way and I can't reasonably pass them and they arent taking the hint, then I will eddy out for 5-10 minutes to let them get more ahead. Maybe I'll just end up dealing with it again later when I catch up but who knows. It lowers my blood pressure in that moment.

The most annoyed it get is when a group/person decides to push off practically right in front of you.


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## LRBBCO (Aug 6, 2018)

My ASSumption is that they were playing go go Rabbit to get a camp below Radium and spent more time in traffic out of Denver than on the river. Maybe they had a fun evening, but those folk don't seem to have much fun on the water.
In my opinion there is some river etiquette, as decribed above, in such scenarios, but once someone digresses to the finger and rude commentary, screw 'em. They'll get around, sip your barley soda and appreciate that you're having fun, and they are... exercising?


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## Pine (Aug 15, 2017)

I'd say etiquette is similar to golf, let faster moving people "play through" even if there is no written rule. Personally, as soon as some on is on my tail, I grab an eddy or slack water and let them pass and wait a couple of minutes to let them build some distance downstream. I consider it the most polite thing to do, plus I like to have my own elbow room when on the river. There are often times when I do solo or single boat trips, and I try to maintain a fast pace. I always appreciate it greatly when other groups let me pass, and I make a point of thanking them for doing so.


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## River Schmee (Jul 24, 2020)

drewski said:


> Float fished upper C yesterday from Pumphouse to Radium, busiest I have ever seen it. Floating through the canyon and fishing our way down and a guy chews me out for “being in the way” saying I should eddy out to let his raft and another raft get by. I could understand and if I was backrowing in order to fish but I was staying in the fastest current possible and maneuvering the boat in order to get down stream safely. Our boat was a 14’ cat with large tubes and 3 adults. One boat was another oar rig with two people and the other was a paddle boat with 4 or 5 people that seemed to not know what they were doing.
> wondering what proper etiquette is? I would’ve thought it is similar to skiing in that down river boat has right of way, I know general maritime law talks about least maneuverable vessel having right of way. There wasn’t a lot of opportunity to eddy out in the section we were in and I will admit I treated them like someone tailgating me after they flipped me off and cussed me out (at that point I wasn’t going to work hard to get to an eddy and felt they could go pound sand). Eventually they passed with plenty of words said. Same guy tries to stare me down when we see them a few hours later at the hot springs.
> wondering if I am in the wrong and should immediately get out of up river boaters way. It was unfortunately an unpleasant interaction that put the damper on an otherwise enjoyable and excellent fishing day.
> I should add, I totally understand a fisherman backrowing to fish would annoy someone trying to move down river swiftly but this was not a case of that.


well, Crap! I had the same thing happen on the Upper C with a commercial paddle group. I was rowing. they passed so close in a tight stretch that it was inevitable that my oars tangled with their custies and i got an earful from the boatman. Having been a commercial, safety would have taken precedent over getting to my next launch, but that just ain't the way of the world. Since, i go in where the commercials ain't. and adopt the FISHMO philosophy: Fn3k it. S4!t Happens, Move on...


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## TonyMancuso (Jun 27, 2016)

TheAlaskan said:


> The most annoyed it get is when a group/person decides to push off practically right in front of you.


That can get dangerous on some runs. Anyone that oblivious I avoid entirely, hang back if I need too.


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## fkn newf guy (8 mo ago)

etiquette smiquitte
you git em?
or you need me to send you stickers?








In those instances, i like to push, eddy out and bust out 13' of spray stick and start scaniding 6" of 3 hooked articulated menages de tres sex dungeons onto rubbers with a "damn sent that one" comment
they tend to move on pretty quick when that happens


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## yellkayak (Jan 14, 2010)

On the river or on the mountain bike trail , if they catch up to me, they are moving faster, I get over and let them pass.


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## LJPurvis (Apr 12, 2017)

My response...it's situational. I have been on the Middle Fork at low water. Through many of the rapids there is only one run. If you start the run and somebody decides to hang at the bottom to fish...it is impossible to go around them. If there is space then I go around them and ask how their day is going. Alternatively, if somebody is catching up to me I will always pull over; I'm just not in a hurry.

If you are parked in the only line; don't. Move.
If you are in a spot with plenty of room to go around; fine.
If you are being passed, try to move out of the way (like playing through on a golf course).
If you are passing, hopefully they will be respectful. You cannot control that part.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

River Schmee said:


> Since, i go in where the commercials ain't. and adopt the FISHMO philosophy: Fn3k it. S4!t Happens, Move on...


Awesome


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## LuckyLadyBug (Feb 16, 2019)

I was the TL on a trip where a commercial group decided to start setting up their lunch on the beach our groover was on. We were at a campsite on the yampa that had just went from a day spot to a campsite (sea cliff). I gave them the benefit of the doubt and asked them to not set up lunch next to our groover and offered a spot for them just past our boats. The commercial group leader was pissed and argued with me that I shouldn’t be there that late (it was 11am and we had 6 miles to float). When they floated past us, my group members blasted a song by Big Sean on the speaker, I’ll let you guess which one. Moral of the story, just be nice, we’re all out there to have a good time.

You’re not wrong by not letting them pass and they should have kept their cool or asked nicely to pass. Also the Upper C is nuts and needs more regulation to keep dumbos off the water. I once saw a 6 person paddle boat take off with no PFDs and was horrified.


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