# Lavro Whitewater Dory. How many are out there?



## Idaho_ski_bum (Jun 22, 2018)

There has to be some of these boats out there. I'm curious how many were produced and if anyone has first hand experience with one. It looks like a really cool rig.


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## aselig24 (May 8, 2020)

Saw one this summer on the Green! It was an awesome old boat


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## mkashzg (Aug 9, 2006)

It looks like they went out of business about 5 years after he turned it over to the kids.... imagine that. Below is a link the owner started here awhile back. MT4Runner probably knows more.

16' Lavro WTD


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## Idaho_ski_bum (Jun 22, 2018)

Some good reading. He didn't exactly get a warm welcome to the Buzz though...








Lavro WTD16. Whitewater Touring Dory (SOLD)


Unfortunately, It's time to put the Lavro up for sale. I'm looking at new adventures and I won't have the time or space to use it like I should. Only about 50 of these were made between 1980 and 2010, when Lavro went out of business. Here's a link to the original Lavro webpage...




www.mountainbuzz.com




From this old classifieds posting it sounds like only around 50 were ever built.


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## jamesthomas (Sep 12, 2010)

Only 50 made ever? From picks they look really good. You think your cat is maneuverable try a well designed hard chine drift boat. Absolutely no comparison and I would bet the weight carrying capabilities are similar. Only drawback IMHO, if you fuck up and smack a rock, there is NO give/cushion thus possible hull damage. I have bounced my cat off a bunch of rocks over the years. If you ever get the chance to drive a driftboat jump on it, You will be impressed.
,


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

Lavros are bomber burly. They’re the drift boat choice of fishing guides in low water…will take WAY more abuse than a Hyde or Clackacraft or my woody.

too bad he didn’t get a better reception


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## Will Amette (Jan 28, 2017)

There was one on a lowish water Middle Fork trip I was on several years back. It took a beating, but it looked like it would be a fun boat. I possibly could have pried the owner out of the seat for a mile or six. My friend did. I was still transitioning from paddling to rowing, and I didn't feel up to risking a glass boat to my novice rowing skills even if I could read water. I actually rowed his Avon Pro that trip because I had just bought my own boat and didn't have it ready for a trip yet. He loaded it pretty heavy for me; it's what hooked me on rowing.

He also loaded the Lavro pretty heavy, and we had to unload some of his weight for him to maneuver. I think he only broke one oar.

I am sure he repaired the damages and keeps it running. Nice boat. Wish I had one.


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## LLubchenco (Nov 23, 2016)

my stepfather has some experience with building dories and has mentioned the lavro style was known to be quite tippy. Something about the chines being a steep angle and the hull not being very wide. Made them drive like a dream, but were easy to flip. Also, easy to unflip, so I guess there's that. Never seen one first hand, but I'd love to row one someday!


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

LLubchenco said:


> my stepfather has some experience with building dories and has mentioned the lavro style was known to be quite tippy. Something about the chines being a steep angle and the hull not being very wide. Made them drive like a dream, but were easy to flip. Also, easy to unflip, so I guess there's that. Never seen one first hand, but I'd love to row one someday!


It’s a Mackenzie hull design, not a Rogue/Briggs hull design. Both are proven, both have advantages and disadvantages. McKenzie boats will have a narrower sheer line for a given bottom width and continuous rocker in the floor. Rogue boats have a wider sheer and more flare in the side panels, giving them more stability when you really lean them over. The flat spot amidships lets you carry more gear and track straighter at the loss of some maneuverability.
McKenzie boats first ran the MF salmon in the late 1920s. Briggs boats are the Grand Canyon gold standard since the early 1970s And have been on the Rogue in their current iteration since at least the 1940s, and as Rogue River log driving boots much earlier than that.


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

MT4Runner said:


> Lavros are bomber burly. They’re the drift boat choice of fishing guides in low water…will take WAY more abuse than a Hyde or Clackacraft or my woody.
> 
> too bad he didn’t get a better reception







The music is hilarious..


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## Aerocam (Jul 11, 2011)

I've owned two of these over the years, including the one that was for sale above. They are very tough boats and I never had issues with the hulls and rocks. The only repairs I ever did were to the gunnels where the deck and the hull were joined. They didn't like to act as bumpers very well.... 

They rowed very well even when loaded down with my portion of group gear on the Canyon. Mostly I took it on the Rogue and Hell's Canyon. Super fun! It rode like a rubber ducky over all the waves unlike a raft which wallows through stuff. It had an integrated ballast tank that you could fill with water for more stability. I only used it that way for day trips, but it was very effective. When loaded for overnights, I kept all the heavy stuff low and didn't need to use the ballast tank except for beer storage...

Yeah, somewhere between 50-60 were made over the 30 years. The last one was built in 2010 and retail price was around $20k. Not a big market for a specialty boat at that price. I talked with the Ron after the grandkids had gone out of business, He was trying to sell all the molds from the company including the ones for the WTD, (Whitewater touring dory). I only wanted the ones for the WTD and he said the jigs and molds for that model alone, would take a large Uhaul truck to move. Didn't follow through with it and have been kicking myself ever since.


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## Idaho_ski_bum (Jun 22, 2018)

Thanks for the replies! I would love to row one of those boats someday. My hope is that I find one for sale and I magically have some cash to throw at it. I ran across this Lavro drift boat for sale and I started doing research on it. That's when I learned about them going out of business and discovered the WTD model.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

I'm curious if the drift boats and WTD's have a similar hull shape. It would be reasonably simple to build a hatch go over the rear seat area...and deck the oarsman/passenger benches into cross hatches.
What's that one going for, ISB?


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## Idaho_ski_bum (Jun 22, 2018)

Drift Boat - boats - by owner - marine sale


Lavro 16ft RWE. Air tight storage under front seat and front hatch compartment.



spokane.craigslist.org





$3,500
It's way up in North Idaho (The 51st state)


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

Great price. My buddy paid $3,000 for his open Lavro drifter with trailer and Carlisle oars.
Want me to grab her for you?

I'd love to own it for a week or two just for the sheer WTF? factor from my wife and friends. 
HOW MANY DORIES DO YOU NEED?

ALL OF THEM!


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## Aerocam (Jul 11, 2011)

I saw that one too. (Lavro is one of my regular Craigslist searches..) I believe that one is a RWE," Whitewater Ends" Originally the stern compartment had a hatch cover. That has been removed to make it a fishing position. I have seen similar boats modified like you said, with added decks and hatches in the middle section. 

Fiberglass is easy to learn and it wouldn't take much to transform that one to a big water worthy boat. Or keep it as it is, replace the back hatch for lots of water tight storage and use it on most class III rivers. Either way it would be fun.


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## Aerocam (Jul 11, 2011)

MT4Runner said:


> HOW MANY DORIES DO YOU NEED?
> 
> ALL OF THEM!


THIS X 1000!!!!


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

MT4Runner said:


> Great price. My buddy paid $3,000 for his open Lavro drifter with trailer and Carlisle oars.
> Want me to grab her for you?
> 
> I'd love to own it for a week or two just for the sheer WTF? factor from my wife and friends.
> ...


I've got one ill sell ya....


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## Idaho_ski_bum (Jun 22, 2018)

Aerocam said:


> I saw that one too. (Lavro is one of my regular Craigslist searches..) I believe that one is a RWE," Whitewater Ends" Originally the stern compartment had a hatch cover. That has been removed to make it a fishing position. I have seen similar boats modified like you said, with added decks and hatches in the middle section.
> 
> Fiberglass is easy to learn and it wouldn't take much to transform that one to a big water worthy boat. Or keep it as it is, replace the back hatch for lots of water tight storage and use it on most class III rivers. Either way it would be fun.


That would be a cool one-off build. I would be curious to know if the current owner still has that rear hatch...


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## Idaho_ski_bum (Jun 22, 2018)

MT4Runner said:


> Great price. My buddy paid $3,000 for his open Lavro drifter with trailer and Carlisle oars.
> Want me to grab her for you?
> 
> I'd love to own it for a week or two just for the sheer WTF? factor from my wife and friends.
> ...


Believe me, I have thought about going up to get that boat. I could steelhead fish all the way home. My lovely wife would string me up though, so I'll have to pass on this one for now.
Being a rafter / skier / father of 2 freeloading kids keeps my finances on what might be called the "lean" side. Thanks for the offer though @MT4Runner!


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

We're empty nesters as of August, so I'm filling the lonely empty place in my home with boats.


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## Idaho_ski_bum (Jun 22, 2018)

MT4Runner said:


> We're empty nesters as of August, so I'm filling the lonely empty place in my home with boats.


We are getting close.... boys are 18 and 15. Their "toys" are getting to be as expensive as mine.


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## Idaho_ski_bum (Jun 22, 2018)

Aerocam said:


> I've owned two of these over the years, including the one that was for sale above. They are very tough boats and I never had issues with the hulls and rocks. The only repairs I ever did were to the gunnels where the deck and the hull were joined. They didn't like to act as bumpers very well....
> 
> They rowed very well even when loaded down with my portion of group gear on the Canyon. Mostly I took it on the Rogue and Hell's Canyon. Super fun! It rode like a rubber ducky over all the waves unlike a raft which wallows through stuff. It had an integrated ballast tank that you could fill with water for more stability. I only used it that way for day trips, but it was very effective. When loaded for overnights, I kept all the heavy stuff low and didn't need to use the ballast tank except for beer storage...
> 
> Yeah, somewhere between 50-60 were made over the 30 years. The last one was built in 2010 and retail price was around $20k. Not a big market for a specialty boat at that price. I talked with the Ron after the grandkids had gone out of business, He was trying to sell all the molds from the company including the ones for the WTD, (Whitewater touring dory). I only wanted the ones for the WTD and he said the jigs and molds for that model alone, would take a large Uhaul truck to move. Didn't follow through with it and have been kicking myself ever since.


Wishing I had seen your classified post when you sold it last year. $5,800 is a steal of a deal for a unique classic river boat. I hope it went to a good home!


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

MNichols said:


> I've got one ill sell ya....


You'll let Ashkii go that cheap?



Idaho_ski_bum said:


> We are getting close.... boys are 18 and 15. Their "toys" are getting to be as expensive as mine.


Pretty soon those toys will be theirs to buy.

...but you'll miss them a lot! I have 3 small-med drysuits hanging in my closet and one was worn for a single day this season.


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

MT4Runner said:


> You'll let Ashkii go that cheap?


You know darn well what I'm asking 😂


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

😂 
Hey, I'm looking for deals, not perfect boats.

See also: Teakettle!


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

Well, perfect she is, 30 year old canonita Dory built by Derald Stewart in Durango..

Oars, trailer, repair,all ya need lol


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

MNichols said:


> all ya need lol


that's literally the problem: I can't have just one.


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

MT4Runner said:


> that's literally the problem: I can't have just one.


Well buy mine and you'll have seven lol.. I'd even consider delivering it for another plate of those mussels at the golfin pasture lol


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## Idaho_ski_bum (Jun 22, 2018)

Apparently I n


MNichols said:


> Well buy mine and you'll have seven lol.. I'd even consider delivering it for another plate of those mussels at the golfin pasture lol


SEVEN?!? I knew you were a dory junkie MT4Runner, but I didn't realize you had six. Are they all your builds, other than Teakettle?


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

Slight exaggeration...I was up to four, but sold the Lil Bastard (built by my buddy Blake) in August.

I have a 14' fish/whitewater 2-3 seat boat on the drawing board...and am thinking about building some small ~9' nesting dories that I can toss on the water like sunflower shells and let my friends' kids row.


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## Idaho_ski_bum (Jun 22, 2018)

Aerocam said:


> I've owned two of these over the years, including the one that was for sale above. They are very tough boats and I never had issues with the hulls and rocks. The only repairs I ever did were to the gunnels where the deck and the hull were joined. They didn't like to act as bumpers very well....
> 
> They rowed very well even when loaded down with my portion of group gear on the Canyon. Mostly I took it on the Rogue and Hell's Canyon. Super fun! It rode like a rubber ducky over all the waves unlike a raft which wallows through stuff. It had an integrated ballast tank that you could fill with water for more stability. I only used it that way for day trips, but it was very effective. When loaded for overnights, I kept all the heavy stuff low and didn't need to use the ballast tank except for beer storage...
> 
> Yeah, somewhere between 50-60 were made over the 30 years. The last one was built in 2010 and retail price was around $20k. Not a big market for a specialty boat at that price. I talked with the Ron after the grandkids had gone out of business, He was trying to sell all the molds from the company including the ones for the WTD, (Whitewater touring dory). I only wanted the ones for the WTD and he said the jigs and molds for that model alone, would take a large Uhaul truck to move. Didn't follow through with it and have been kicking myself ever since.


Was the ballast system a battery operated pump? Did the boat self bail with pump or was it designed to drain by gravity?


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## Will Amette (Jan 28, 2017)

Filling can be done with a bucket. Emptying required a hand pump for the one on our trip.

The owner said we should put all our "extra" beer down there; it would stay cold and be part of his ballast. I had never heard of the term "extra beer" at the beginning of a trip.... But we put a lot down there.

After he bashed off a couple walls and broke an oar, we pulled a lot back out as well as he pumped out some of the water.

He was sure we'd get more snowmelt and the water level would come up. Said he knew a local pilot that said there was still snow on the ground. But watching SNOTEL, it sure didn't seem like a lot of SWE to me. The river didn't come up. He was a little embarrassed at the damage and said he'd have it repaired some place away from home so nobody had to know....


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## Aerocam (Jul 11, 2011)

The tank does have it's own drain also. The bottom of the tank is about 4 inches above the hull. The drain only works if you are out of the water, on a trailer or pulled up on shore. As long as the tank is above river level it drains fine.

The self bailing was by gravity. The cockpit floor was above river level so any water over the sides drained out from a spot in front of the rowing seat. Pretty cool system! At the start of our Grand Canyon trip there was some water slopping up from the drain because I was pretty heavy and riding low. 

They are super fun boats if you can get your hands on one..


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

How much water does she draw with a full GC load? (what's the floor height/ballast tank depth?)

(My Briggs boat draws about 5" empty, 8" with 4 people for an overnight and pushing 12" with 4 people and too much stuff)


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## Aerocam (Jul 11, 2011)

The floor is probably around 10" above the bottom. The water wasn't up to the top but the wave action in the rapids would burble up through the drain. I bet we were around the 8" level. That was with my daughter and I, all the charcoal, one of the 20lb bombs, two scepter jugs, personal bags and drinks. The side hatches were about 3\4 to the top with stuff. There's lots of room to stash things.

Click on the ad earlier in the thread and you can see the layout of ballast tank, drain, hatches, etc. Interestingly the two side hatches are interconnected under the ballast tank. Another thing is that the bulkheads have sections of rubber connecting to the hull that allow the sides to flex in and out without allowing water to move from one compartment to another. A lot of the design is to allow the boat to flex and absorb hits and not transfer the force to other parts. Another reason why the ballast tank was just above the hull.

I miss my boat......


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## T.O.Mac (Jun 6, 2015)

White water dory (lavro) - boats - by owner - marine sale


Super cool boat 18,000 OR BEST OFFER 1 of 64 originally made Handles just about any white water Boat has been kept outside and needs some tlc… would not take much to get the boat back to its...



rockies.craigslist.org





Here's a lavro if you're interested...pretty worn and still going for 18k


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

T.O.Mac said:


> White water dory (lavro) - boats - by owner - marine sale
> 
> 
> Super cool boat 18,000 OR BEST OFFER 1 of 64 originally made Handles just about any white water Boat has been kept outside and needs some tlc… would not take much to get the boat back to its...
> ...


Stored outside, what a shame.. someone has to want that really bad to pay 18k for it...


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## jamesthomas (Sep 12, 2010)

Seems like a lot. Boat does not look that beat up from looking at the pics but needs two or three weekends worth of cosmetic repairs. You would definitely want to look at it in person before making any decisions. 18 K ??? Seems like a lot.


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## jamesthomas (Sep 12, 2010)

Hell, half that seems like a lot.


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

jamesthomas said:


> Hell, half that seems like a lot.


Yep. Looking at it, I'd say 7k$ tops would be a fair price, but the seller seems to be counting on the fact that they didn't make a lot of them, being "rare" that it should increase the value. He doesn't know river folk all that well apparently, and just cause something is old or rare, doesn't make it valuable.. If it does, my old groover boxes should be worth a fortune


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

$6k-9k would be fair. 
$18k is a LOT for a boat that needs serious TLC.


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## Idaho_ski_bum (Jun 22, 2018)

Yeah man that's a lot of $$. I mean, look at the one Aerocam sold. It was in amazing shape for less than half the price. Rare and cool points for sure, but I don't have that kind of cash... Even if I did I could find a better way to spend it. It is cool to see another one still out there though!


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## Aerocam (Jul 11, 2011)

That one has been listed before. Curious of the year but since a brand new one was $20k in 2010 when they stopped making them, I agree that they're hoping for the "rare" factor to kick in.

If anyone goes to look at this, I can give you some things to watch for. Just based on the pics, it will need at least $2k worth of supplies and effort to get it back in shape. (if you do the work yourself). Fiberglass isn't hard to work on, just time consuming and itchy.....


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## jamesthomas (Sep 12, 2010)

F’n A it’s itchy but only if you are using glass cloth. Other than that it’s OK. Rubber gloves for sure and acetone for clean up and you are good to go. DON’T mess around with this stuff in a enclosed space!! (think your garage with the door closed) Ventilation is super important.


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## jamesthomas (Sep 12, 2010)

It’s really hard to tell from pics on the net but I would guess that it doesn’t need major glassing/gel coating. A bit of rubbing compound, elbow grease and lots of it, some wax on top and that sob would shine in all of it’s yellow… glory? 18 K??? Even a Boulder boat only goes 12k for a fishing rig although I have not looked at their website for a couple of years. Aren’t Hydes and Clackas still… 10 K new? 18 K??? PAH! Where did you get that?? Whaat??? That stuff your smokin.


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## barry hatch (Mar 26, 2006)

I have this one with all the additions. Still in good shape; never wrecked .Would like to hook up with other WTD owners for a Westwater or Cataract last week of June.


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