# Tube destroyer in the Lower Blue Below Green Mountain!



## LongmontRafter

Last Saturday (9/13) at least two floaters experienced catastrophic tube damage while floating the private property section of the Lower Blue river below Green mountain reservoir. It is believed to be in at least one or more of the first couple diversion dams below the canyon section of the river.
My boat experienced a 3" slice thru the bottom of the left front tube. Looked like a cut made by a utility knife...Another floater had a 4 foot gash thru his outer shell...Flows were ~750 cfs

Beware floating the lower blue!


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## Fuzzie

Wow! Very bad news. Sorry to hear of this bad situation. What do you suppose it is? Trash, Bad wood, random sharp rock? Did the cut look ripped or sliced? I usually get in there each fall. I have some reservations now...


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## cdcfly

I wonder if the property owner put some hazard in there to discourage boating?


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## LongmontRafter

My boat had a definite slice all the way thru the tube. Later on I noticed what looked like a section of box tubing that had been pounded into the riverbed and was sticking up from the bottom about 8-10" right in the center drop of one of the diversion dams...something like this could have done it and it would appear that they are in multiple locations...bummer...


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## danny_750

Thanks for posting LongmontRafter. I am still very sad and heartbroken about the damage to my Aire and my lost rod/reel. My damage is more of a tear/rip not a clean slice/cut. Definitely from one of the first few weirs. Be on the the look out!

I will get my boat fixed and I will continue to float the Lower Blue. Razor wire will need to be stretched across the river before I stop floating it!


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## SROB34

LongmontRafter said:


> It is believed to be in at least one or more of the first couple diversion dams below the canyon section of the river.


My buddy and I were discussing this today, I don't think the first couple diversions are part of Blue Valley Ranch. They are still private water, but part of the Spring Creek area I believe. Not that it matters, if someone still put up some raft-ripping paraphernalia in the river that really sucks. Anyways, don't go bashing Mr. Jones quite yet, could be some other guy with a vendetta upriver...

Had a friend float through there last weekend and he didn't report anything of the sort...


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## jbolson

Wow, that is a frightening thought that someone would be purposefully sabotaging the river.


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## thinksnow

Sounds like a job for American Whitewater.


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## LongmontRafter

We were well within the Blue Valley ranch when I noticed my deflated tube. As much as Danny_750 indicates his damage occurred in the first few Weirs, I think there are a few booby traps in there...fyi


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## pepejohns

Question is, what are we gonna do about it? This aggression will not stand, man. And I want to run that stretch soon...


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## pepejohns

Nathan from AW has posted in the other thread asking for more information and/or pictures. If someone can post detailed information on the location of these hazards, I can get that information to the right people.


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## LongmontRafter

I did get a decent gopro vid of the first few drops out of the canyon...I will review it tonight to see if anything shows up...


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## CROE

what is "box tubing"?? thanks, Chet


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## LongmontRafter

*box tubing eg.*

image attached...I only got a quick look at it as we floated over...it could have been just a piece of steel fence post...


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## Andy H.

Here's Nathan Fey's post asking for photos so AW can look into the issue:



> If anyone has plans on going down there this week, please try to take a picture of the location and the metal object. Send to nathan at americanwhitewater dot org


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## thinksnow

Thanks to all for getting Nathan/AW involved.


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## LongmontRafter

*slice...*

Here is picture of the damage...looks metallic to me...? Working on a video of the trip...will post when finished...


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## powrider686

Any updates on this? Thanks!


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## bluebtr

SROB34 said:


> My buddy and I were discussing this today, I don't think the first couple diversions are part of Blue Valley Ranch. They are still private water, but part of the Spring Creek area I believe. Not that it matters, if someone still put up some raft-ripping paraphernalia in the river that really sucks. Anyways, don't go bashing Mr. Jones quite yet, could be some other guy with a vendetta upriver...
> 
> Had a friend float through there last weekend and he didn't report anything of the sort...


I am pretty sure all of the weir structures below the bridge are on BVR property.I live in Spring Creek (Blue Valley Acres 1) and I don't know of any of my neighbors that would do such a thing, most of us float that section and fought tooth and nail with Mr. Jones to retain access to the river when he bought off the powers that be during the land swap several years back that gave him private control of the then public property. Do I believe that he has put devices to damage boats in those weirs on purpose? No. Would it surprise me if he did ? No.


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## LongmontRafter

*BVR is huge...*

The following link shows the breakdown of private/BVR/BLM land...

http://www.blm.gov/pgdata/etc/media...ley.Par.98924.File.dat/BlueValleyE_100web.pdf

bluebtr is correct, most of the land is BVR property...had no idea of the expanse of this guys property...

As to the intent to damage boats I can only speculate. I've managed to float this stretch a few times over the last couple of years and haven't had a problem til now. Like I said, I did see what looked like a fence post sticking up from the bottom of the river in one of the dams... it wasn't sticking up high enough to damage a boat but it was there and would come into play at lower water...


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## thinksnow

Any more info about the raft ripping fence post on the section below the Green Mtn Res?


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## dafewillis

I'd also love to hear an update, if anyone has one. Contemplating one more float this season, if flows cooperate. Thanks!

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## powrider686

Ran it today top to bottom and didnt have any issues. Didn't see anything either. Bet it's something natural but who knows. Did see some sharp rocks that we're barely covered.


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## thinksnow

powrider686 Thanks for the 411.


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## Riemo337

I floated this today in an IK and saw what appeared to be a pipe sticking out of the water 3" or so on the left side of the first diversion dam you come across. It certainly looked like it would do some damage.


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## GratefulOne

Thanks for that update riemo. 

I am going to do it in a new IK tomorrow so im trying to be very cautious. I will probably just portage the first damn. was it easy to miss in your IK?!?! Thanks! 

anyone else have an update? is it still there? anyone else had any problems?!


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## Riemo337

Grateful - My plan for the trip was to stay right when in doubt especially when approaching the diversion dams. If I remember correctly, I don't remember seeing it until I was fairly close to the diversion dam - 30 feet or so, but I was also 30 ft or so to to the right as I approached it. I can tell you that my friend in a raft didn't see it all so I suppose my lower perspective helped to a certain degree in spotting it. I would think if you stayed right, you wouldn't have any issues, but I certainly wouldn't want to risk my boat if I had any concerns.


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## Andy H.

There also may be a trespass issue if you scout / portage. My understanding is that Lord Tudor Jones and the Sheriff of Knottingham have their minions patrolling the forest up there.


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## lmyers

I am going to float this stretch tomorrow with a couple Buzzards and will be sure to bring my camera and inspect the drops closely...


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## Ole Rivers

Andy H. said:


> There also may be a trespass issue if you scout / portage. My understanding is that Lord Tudor Jones and the Sheriff of Knottingham have their minions patrolling the forest up there.


The upper diversion entirely in USFS land. From the head of the lower diversion then going in a line across the river is the North boundary line, I believe, between USFS and BVR.

LongmontRafter's http://www.blm.gov/pgdata/etc/media...ley.Par.98924.File.dat/BlueValleyE_100web.pdf
reference of two weeks ago shows the boundaries. Check out Parcel 10. Then check out Parcel I. Those are the two key parcels, in my opinion.


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## Ole Rivers

lmyers said:


> I am going to float this stretch tomorrow with a couple Buzzards and will be sure to bring my camera and inspect the drops closely...


Public land on both sides downstream to USFS/BVR boundary in line going across river at the head of the lower diversion. Confirm with Summit County Assessor's parcel maps. Grand County, too. Accordingly, for pics of the ripper area, you should be good to go for pics on the upland.


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## LongmontRafter

*1st diversion vid*

Here is an excerpt from a video I put on YouTube earlier. I don't believe that my damage occurred here but here it is...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjsZCuiNWCs


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## Ole Rivers

Upper and lower diversion pics. Is the ripper in one of these diversion areas?

See that yellow marker in the lower diversion? Pretty sure that's the boundary marker, then in a line to the head of the dam then across to river right where there's an old downed fence section that I believe makes up the North boundary line between USFS/BVR. Yellow marker is not there anymore.


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## GratefulOne

we took a good long look at both diversions today, and found nothing of much significance. At the first , I did find something that looked like it could be a rusty fence post. It was on the left side of the weir. pretty far from center. I waded out, and pulled it out. it turned out to be a sharp stick. but it could have easily been mistaken as a fence post. 

I don't think this stick would have been able to shred a raft. and it was pretty far left of center.

Other than that we didn't see any man made hazards, and no boats had any incidents... 

have there been any other incidents besides two in one day?! 

The Lower Blue Rocks! Ill be back!


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## Issip

*Negligent Homicide*

Raft damage is one thing, but if someone were to take an accidental swim - well anything that can tar through an Aire tube would almost certainly do far worse to a swimmer. If these hazards were intentionally placed the person responsible could and should see some serious jail time, especially if someone is seriously injured (as is likely if people are intentionally placing raft damaging spikes in popular whitewater).


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## lmyers

We saw a swimmer in the first dam on Saturday. No injuries. As Gratefulone explained we thoroughly scouted both dams, twice, and saw no hazards. We also were paddling in a large group, and saw probably 8 or more rafts. No one had an issue. I wonder if the hazard was removed or somehow moved on its own?... For now I would not consider it as an issue when choosing to float this stretch.


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## thinksnow

How many miles/hours is it from Green Mtn Res to the Blue/Colorado confluence (raft take out). Thinking of doing my first float on this section this week. Thanks to all for the beta on the steel post in the river! SOUNDS GOOD TO GO


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## FishVailStevo

thinksnow said:


> How many miles/hours is it from Green Mtn Res to the Blue/Colorado confluence (raft take out). Thinking of doing my first float on this section this week. Thanks to all for the beta on the steel post in the river! SOUNDS GOOD TO GO


It took us ALL DAMN DAY and then some. We put in around around 9 or so. Had to drive from Vail. Of course we were fishing real hard and stopping alot. Got out well past dark around 10 (last weir in pitch black was a rush)

Ive only done it once (539cfs) but want go go again before winter actually comes.


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## jwburdge

I haven't had any issues this fall. I've run it about 6 times and usually an inflatable is in the group, although she has been portaging the second drop....


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## Jensjustduckie

thinksnow said:


> How many miles/hours is it from Green Mtn Res to the Blue/Colorado confluence (raft take out). Thinking of doing my first float on this section this week. Thanks to all for the beta on the steel post in the river! SOUNDS GOOD TO GO


Even if you don't stop to fish it will be a good 8 hours on the river. Bring lunch, beer, water and extra hands for the carry out. We've run it as a scenic float in October without fishing and it's still a long day.


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## Ole Rivers

thinksnow said:


> How many miles/hours is it from Green Mtn Res to the Blue/Colorado confluence (raft take out). Thinking of doing my first float on this section this week. Thanks to all for the beta on the steel post in the river! SOUNDS GOOD TO GO


Drove it today on the way to fish the Colorado. Approx 11 Hwy 9 road miles Heeney Road to take out not counting Trough Road. Updated take out pics to compare with pics taken in 2012 (See Blue River Put In thread) for erosion.


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## thinksnow

Thanks Ole Rivers,and FishVailStevo sounds like a big day!


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## yesimapirate

This past Saturday we definitely saw an object sticking straight up out of one of the diversion dams after the canyon and before the big ranch. It was river left about 1/3 of the way out from the left shore. We didn't stop to investigate, but it was vertical and had been there long enough for some river schmegma to pile up against it. Slightly round in shape, and was visible enough (barely) from above the dam that I was able to avoid it. 

I'm not posting to scare anyone off from the section. I just felt it was worth noting. And I'm kicking myself for not trying to do something more about it while we were there.


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## Ole Rivers

yesimapirate said:


> This past Saturday we definitely saw an object sticking straight up out of one of the diversion dams after the canyon and before the big ranch. It was river left about 1/3 of the way out from the left shore. We didn't stop to investigate, but it was vertical and had been there long enough for some river schmegma to pile up against it. Slightly round in shape, and was visible enough (barely) from above the dam that I was able to avoid it.
> 
> I'm not posting to scare anyone off from the section. I just felt it was worth noting. And I'm kicking myself for not trying to do something more about it while we were there.



Which of the two dams in post #33 is where the object is located that you saw?


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## yesimapirate

Of those 2 pictures, the first looks like it. It wasn't one of the bigger damns or the one in #32's video with the tree on river left.


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## GratefulOne

the object you are describing Pirate, sounds like the object I removed from the first weir. ( I removed it last saturday or sunday.) it was a stick pointing straight up, out of the water 2 inches. round and looked like a fence post. and the stick had def been in the water a long time.


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## Ole Rivers

yesimapirate said:


> This past Saturday we definitely saw an object sticking straight up out of one of the diversion dams after the canyon and before the big ranch. It was river left about 1/3 of the way out from the left shore. We didn't stop to investigate, but it was vertical and had been there long enough for some river schmegma to pile up against it. Slightly round in shape, and was visible enough (barely) from above the dam that I was able to avoid it.
> 
> I'm not posting to scare anyone off from the section. I just felt it was worth noting. And I'm kicking myself for not trying to do something more about it while we were there.


Yesimapirate, is the dam location you describe upstream or downstream from Spring Creek bridge?


If upstream from SC bridge, there are only two diversion dams just downstream from the canyon's lower end "Wall" whitewater, the Upper dam (left pic) and Lower dam (right pic) in post #33. There's another diversion dam a few hundred yards downstream of Spring Creek bridge of which I also may have a pic (I have photo'd a bunch of pics from GM dam down to the confluence for scenery and documentation purposes).


Having a potentially dangerous situation, discovery, removal and/or clear pics are needed to resolve this. According to the original event's date and the following posts' dates combined with the historical flow data on the gauge, the flows were all around 700-740 or so (confirm), the stream levels are close to each other so, to get a really good pic or removal, somebody needs to boat, check and photo/video after, say, November 1 or so when the flows are historically reduced for the end of the growing season.


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## yesimapirate

Ole Rivers said:


> There's another diversion dam a few hundred yards downstream of Spring Creek bridge of which I also may have a pic (I have photo'd a bunch of pics from GM dam down to the confluence for scenery and documentation purposes).


Post this pic. I honestly wasn't paying attention to the bridges, but also haven't been on this stretch enough to name them anyway. 

And again, I'm kicking myself for not at least checking it out. We were past the damn when one of my passengers said - that thing's sticking straight up. By the time I was able to see this object, we were a good 20-30 yards downstream.

If you can convince the wife to watch kids for a 2nd Saturday in a row, I'll gladly go back and check it out this weekend!


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## thinksnow

Did a couple floats through the lower Blue last weekend with two boats. Second weir had a rooster tail left of center. Looked like a rock. Center of all the drops are fine... no problem. Just wish the fishing was a little better. Great float and 4 sure coming back!


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## miahski2

There is a piece of rebar sticking up just after the suspended concrete bridge before jones ranch. It's in the set of riffles just downstream of the bridge about 150ft, river left and about 20ft off the the left bank. At 715 cfs it was about an inch below the water surface. There was a little bit of paint or flagging on the rebar. I only noticed it because I was surfing my old school dancer in riffles. Hit it a few times with the boat and paddle to see if it would move, no luck.


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## Ole Rivers

miahski2 said:


> There is a piece of rebar sticking up just after the suspended concrete bridge before jones ranch. It's in the set of riffles just downstream of the bridge about 150ft, river left and about 20ft off the the left bank. At 715 cfs it was about an inch below the water surface. There was a little bit of paint or flagging on the rebar. I only noticed it because I was surfing my old school dancer in riffles. Hit it a few times with the boat and paddle to see if it would move, no luck.



If this is the bridge, it's well within the Blue Valley Ranch. Google Maps it to locate it but you have to zoom in to do so.

Kara just emailed that the water's going down (since yesterday) and will be at around a bony 300 by 3pm Saturday so the rebar would be more visible at even the current 500 flow. Attached pic taken above bridge looking downstream at 850 cfs in Sept/2009. If you boat it, take pics before and after removing it, then post here so we can collectively profile the placement and, if it's rebar, how it may have gotten in the river for future reference for these kinds of situations.

Since other posters in this thread have indicated other locations and possible multi hazards, keep an eye out for any/all as you boat down. You might also take/attach some sticks and flagging material to mark them should they be unable to be removed.


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## LongmontRafter

Thanks for sharing these photos Ole Rivers! 

I have studied the Google Earth maps and I believe this is likely where my damage occurred. I believe that there is only one suspension bridge like this on the whole run...

Would love to hear confirmation from miahski2!


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## Sherpa9543

Exactly which section of lower blue is in discussion here? Put in/take outs etc..


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## Sherpa9543

I should rephrase that last posted question. Is section in topic below the canyon section of lower blue?


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## theusualsuspect

Sherpa9543 said:


> Exactly which section of lower blue is in discussion here? Put in/take outs etc..
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Mountain Buzz


Green Mountain to the Gore Put in is the lower blue. This includes the canyon below the reservoir as well as the private property of the blue valley ranch.


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## lmyers

The section being discussed was below the standard whitewater takeout at Spring Creek. It was in the stretch commonly float fished on down towards the confluence.


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## thinksnow

The lower section. Below the canyon in the diversion dam sections is where the rafts torn


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## Sherpa9543

Okay, thanks. before now this was a little confusing, because there is also 2 diversion dams on the canyon whitewater section. 


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