# Boy Scout Trip on the Green River goes South



## [email protected] (Jun 1, 2010)

The scout leaders, parents and boy scouts all earned their merit badges for being stupid.
They are lucky, lucky, lucky.


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## LSB (Mar 23, 2004)

Maybe it's just me but I think they should have tested those canoes on a lake first ...


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## 2tomcat2 (May 27, 2012)

My granddaughter is in Scouts and has experienced this lack of knowledge, common sense and the inability of the leaders to research and plan safe trips. I grew up learning and practicing outdoor skills. I have noticed and read about Scout leaders who are very inexperienced in the out of doors. Maybe those who have this knowledge can think about offering up their advice and skills for the kids as well as the adult leaders.


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## Fly By Night (Oct 31, 2018)

That's crazy, those boats look very seaworthy.


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## caverdan (Aug 27, 2004)

In another six months they won't be Boy Scouts anymore. 

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo...ties-with-boy-scouts-create-own-youth-program


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## okieboater (Oct 19, 2004)

I was in the Boy Scouts in my youth. Lucky to have several young men in their mid twenties as leaders that took us on many over night camps and adventures. These gents were always doing things with our troop in the outdoors, safety was their main thing. None of us were injured.

It is sad to me that what ever the intent of these scout leaders, looks like these leaders had zero floating experience and did not ask for help/advice from experienced river runners that I bet were available in Green River or in their home town. These BSA adult leaders made mistakes that could have killed their scouts.

These BSA leaders were lucky no one died. HOWEVER, I hope potential BSA leaders learn from this experience, ask for help from folks who know what ever river the troop plans to float and practice river safety to get future scouts safe trips on rivers. 

I was lucky to have the BSA leaders with the experience, will to share and time to introduce me and others into what became life long fun trips in the outdoors. Hate to see current kiddos to miss out on trips because these leaders made major mistakes in planning and executing BSA float trips.


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## LSB (Mar 23, 2004)

caverdan said:


> In another six months they won't be Boy Scouts anymore.
> 
> https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo...ties-with-boy-scouts-create-own-youth-program


I cant help but think theyre breaking ties because of the policy changes like letting girls be Boy Scouts. LDS is afraid the BSA will allow gay kids next and they want out.


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## smhoeher (Jun 14, 2015)

The concept was great but poor leadership and management was a failure. With good leadership and some competency these kids could have had an awesome experience building and paddling their own boats.


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## raymo (Aug 10, 2008)

Not nearly enough Duck Tape, that stuff will hold anything together, for a longtime, plus it's water proof and strong. With the various colors, the application uses for construction projects is strong and reliable. Great for quick repairs and sticks to about anything. I'm glad they came out to float another day or two. Plus the PVC skeletal structure could of failed too (engineering design). Maby some outrigger action too.


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## raymo (Aug 10, 2008)

*Your on to something.*



LSB said:


> Maybe it's just me but I think they should have tested those canoes on a lake first ...


When I had sex for the first time, I new I should of definitely 
practiced on a water melon first, cause it definitely didn't go the way I expected it to work. Should of seen the look on her face!!


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## GeoRon (Jun 24, 2015)

What could possibly go wrong?

Nothing that about $10,000 worth of Tear Aid couldn't fix.


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## GeoRon (Jun 24, 2015)

I always wondered about those Popular Mechanics do it yourself "Now you can own your own .......". 

Send me $99.95 and you will receive in 10 work days or less the blueprints for your home project. For $999.95 materials will be included! Order while supplies last!

In all seriousness, the peoples of the far north build their home projects out of bones and skins. In theory these could and should have worked


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## panicman (Apr 7, 2005)

Should have used flex seal.


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## raymo (Aug 10, 2008)

I sure wish this adventure would of turned out differently. With headlines reading, BSA adventure with troop designed and built river boats complete Green River journey, that would of been great. That would of been bad ass. I'm sure next time it will turn out with great success.


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## jgrebe (Jan 16, 2010)

Ok so the execution was flawed but I give them major props for getting off their ass, putting the video games away and attempting a real adventure. Who on this site didn't do some incredibly stupid thing when they were young? Just makes for a good story … Remember the time we built a boat from PVC and ....


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## Mtnbuzzer (Feb 5, 2016)

Reminds me of the time we came into 8 foot rapid on the Upper San Juan and floated past 2 canoes wrapped on rocks. Turns out a boy scout troop had lost some of their mojo the day before. We didn't see any sign of them. Those boating merit badges are sure hard to earn.


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## t_woodling (Aug 28, 2018)

I cannot find the link, but the boys were only delayed. The original article makes them sound inept. The follow up article never made it out of the local news sections.

It said they got separated by the current and one boy tipped his canoe. Once they were reunited with help of the rescuers they emptied the swamped canoe 
they continued on. The camped for three days and completed their journey. Quoted as saying the worst part of the trip was the mosquito's! 

Also said this was not the first time they had done this trip successfully!


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## zbaird (Oct 11, 2003)

That is good hear. Leave it to the typical shitbag mainstream media to cherry pick what they want.


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## [email protected] (Jun 1, 2010)

zbaird said:


> That is good hear. Leave it to the typical shitbag mainstream media to cherry pick what they want.



I'm sorry about my earlier post about them being stupid. I should have known better than believe the news media report, that in hind sight was written with a agenda instead of accuracy.


That was stupid of me.


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## MontanaLaz (Feb 15, 2018)

Props on a cool trip plan and I bet the boys all came out of it with a much greater appreciation of what it takes to have a successful trip...that being said, those pictures of the canoes looked like they were stock photo's used in some Florida Man meme.

"Florida Man eaten by alligator after home made boat capsizes in Everglades..."


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## LSB (Mar 23, 2004)

[email protected] said:


> I'm sorry about my earlier post about them being stupid. I should have known better than believe the news media report, that in hind sight was written with a agenda instead of accuracy.
> 
> 
> That was stupid of me.


Im with ya Bighorn. I jumped to the same conclusion. A few years ago we had a scout leader drown on a canoe trip in Alberton Gorge. They had come down from Missoula on a multiday to Thompson Falls. Probably 60ish miles of class 1-2 and about 10 miles of 3+ (technical pooldrop at late summer levels) that they seemed unaware of. When they got to Cyr some guides warned them about the rapids and offered to shuttle them around. Scouts refused. At least they were wearing PFDs acording to the Missoulian. Worst part was the dead scout leader's son was on the trip.


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## GeoRon (Jun 24, 2015)

Gee Zach, LOL, calling Mike Bezemek of Canoe and Kayak magazine/Adventure Sports Network main stream media.


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## 2tomcat2 (May 27, 2012)

Interesting comments from a different forum:

Some boats don't float


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## 2tomcat2 (May 27, 2012)

And...comments from folks in scouting.

https://www.scouter.com/topic/31361-that-sinking-feeling-homemade-canoe-trip-green-river-ut/


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## okieboater (Oct 19, 2004)

Fake News strikes again!!!!!

I should have known better.


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## [email protected] (Jun 1, 2010)

Good news reporting below
https://fox13now.com/2019/07/12/boy...anoes-caught-in-green-river-how-they-got-out/


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## elkhaven (Sep 11, 2013)

As a Cub Scout leader with Boy Scout experience and my eldest in Boy Scouts (currently on a 10 day trip to Oregon) I see both sides of this issue, biased reporting not withstanding.

First, the LDS leaving is the primary impetus to allow girls into scouting (regardless of the formal rational, enrollment has been dropping for decades and the loss of revenue from such a large exodus could be crippling without some influx of new blood (read $$)). For the most part I support the idea of welcoming the girls; why should only boys gain the lessons and experiences offered in the BSA. Girl Scouts is great from what I hear, but it apparently still retains a distinctly "home-Ec." centric curriculum (based on discussions with the girls that have switched). On the other hand, why can't there be things that can be enjoyed without the added distraction/politics/not to mention hormonal issues associated with mixing the sexes. It's nice for the boys to get out with just the boys and not worry about all the rest.... but I guess it's just that, nice (that's my nostalgic rational, I guess). In this day and age it's more important that equality be instilled from the get go and that everyone has the opportunity to follow their own dreams and desires.

Second, on the leadership front it is sad to me that there apparently wasn't a shake down cruise (lake, day trip with a load, etc.) Any boatman worth their salt would do that prior to weighing anchor and sailing off into the wild blue... or shoving off and following the banjo's.... but I digress. I know we don't know the whole story here and there may have been more prep than appears obvious from the results, but a few quality (read tried, true and trusted) safety boats and boaters should have been in the plan (Be Prepared, after all). I am very glad that they persevered and finished the trip and left with lessons and smiles.

Now, with all that said..... It's incredibly difficult to get parents interested in helping with scouting. Some, the lesser number thankfully, simply use it as a baby sitting service. Others are simply not confident in their own knowledge and skills to teach their kids about community involvement, outdoors, preparedness and most commonly, respect and caring for those around you. They look to BSA to do that for them and when we leaders look back, we usually see faces in phones, or toes scratching gravel. I'm not making excuses for lack of preparedness, but saying that getting people involved to help is a 24/7/365 problem, we're often forced to go with the bare minimum number of adults to meet BSA criteria, or cancel the trip. Those stresses add up to under preparedness ultimately. I say all this as there are lots of folks on this site that love helping and sharing advice, information and their time and efforts.... please reach out to your local scouting pack or troop and extend that offer so these things or worse don't happen.

Brian


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## 2tomcat2 (May 27, 2012)

Elkhaven, what a thoughtful perspective! I do understand adults not coming forward to teach skills, and their reasons why, as this is the current situation with many Denver area troops. As grandparents, we have offered up equipment to loan, help with trip planning and, take our kidlets camping and rafting with us as much as schedules allow. They in turn, have been sharing their experiences and knowledge with their troop mates and,
with the leaders. Win win.


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## Krynn (Jan 20, 2004)

*The Scouts and the Church of Jesus Christ are splitting for other reasons*



LSB said:


> I cant help but think theyre breaking ties because of the policy changes like letting girls be Boy Scouts. LDS is afraid the BSA will allow gay kids next and they want out.


Neither the BSA's decision to have girls join or allowing gay leaders was the reason the Church of Jesus Christ decided to have an independent young men's program. I think the decision to split has been coming for a long time. 

The church has a program for the young women that was separate from the Girl Scouts or any other organization. The Girls have a girls camp every summer and achievements to work toward. So the young mens program will be similar to one the young women are following. 

The Church is worldwide. There are more members outside the US and Canada. The youth is other countries already had programs, service activities, camps and achievements. So, the young men here in the US will follow a similar program to youth in the rest of the world.

I agree with previous posters...Just because a boat floats does not mean it is ready to navigate a flood stage river. The leaders made an incredibly dumb decision.


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## caverdan (Aug 27, 2004)

I hate when a news paper and/or reporter starts a story but doesn't finish it. The reporter totally made it sound like they all pulled out at Crystal geyser. I'm glad to hear they made it happen. I call it building character. I'm an Eagle scout with more that a few squirrely adventures and camp fire stories to reflect on from a much younger day. Kudos to them for completing their journey and let bad karma deal with those reporting the wrong story in the wrong way.


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## raymo (Aug 10, 2008)

*Thanks, love good news....*



[email protected] said:


> Good news reporting below
> https://fox13now.com/2019/07/12/boy...anoes-caught-in-green-river-how-they-got-out/


Good to hear it from the other side. Reminds me of a time when the a huge Northerner snow storm hit the New York area, effecting EWR, LGA and JFK, airports. NY air traffic control (ATC), controlled all three airports, around 7 pm, when all the International Flight and domestic flights start arriving and landing clearances are few and far in between, ATC started giving holdings instructions to all inbound flights, they soon ran out of holds and had to make up holding patterns we never heard of. We are all sling heavy ice, figuring out bingo fuel, trying to figure out and find these elaborate holding points, ATC talking as quick as a auctioneer, a real pain in the ass. Then someone comes over the radio and say, I'm all fucked up, up here. ATC, snaps back and says, who said that. In a calm voice the pilot says, I'm not that fucked up. It's all relative, on what is perceived, depending on what side of the coin your on, I guess.


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## Albuquerque Doug (Sep 22, 2014)

Sorry to say so, but that story is absolutely hilarious! Ran into a scout troop driving out of Clay Hills on the lower San Juan. They built their rafts out of truck tire innertubes and plywood. But at least those made it from Mexican Hat to Clay Hills! A scout leader--when I was active in the troop as a scout leader also--organized a canoe trip down the Gila River during spring break. Daily dousings in ultra-cold water. Almost lost one scout leader to hypothermic schock. Years later, I started taking kids up Colorado 14er's. Not a single injury past a scratch. And when people asked me, "Isn't that dangerous?" I'd reply, "How much crap did you give Brent about the Gila trip, before or after? If the answer is none, go the ff away!"


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## PBR62 (Feb 17, 2014)

Okieboater'
How was your Smith river trip?


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