# 2014 Desolation questions.... Bears, bugs, fires



## Sleepless

It's 40 min from pavement to put in according to the shuttle company. I remember it being longer but we it in after dark and took it slow the last few miles. 

Have and plan on camping at the put in this year. Might as well get an early start to get a jump on the flat water start. 

Bugs. Get a screened camp.


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## cataraftgirl

+1 on the screened cabin at the put-in. Life saver. We use River Runners Transport for shuttle. Melanie is great and she will answer many of your questions. Bring buy spray/bug hat/bug suit and hope you don't have to use them. Scout Joe Hutch aka Cow swim. Have fun.


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## panicman

So, i here all this bug talk. what kind of bugs? Skeeters,Knats, or biting flys?


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## readNrun

Lots of talk on the bugs. There also seems to be a prevailing opinion that the first week in June will be high enough water that the bugs won't be that bad. Thoughts?


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## cataraftgirl

Mostly skeeters.

I have done two June Deso trips. June 11 launch, and June 13 launch. Bugs were really bad both time. I came home covered in welts the first time. The second time I was prepared with a bug suit & tons of spray. I didn't get bit too much, and it was a more pleasant experience, but not great. We also booked a screen cabin at Sand Wash the second time which was a life saver. I have vowed never to do Deso in June again. If you catch it on the way up or peaking, it won't be too bad. When it's peaked and is on the way down, that's when the mosquitos are bad. Standing water + moisture + heat = skeeter mania. Timing & tolerance for buzzing critters will determine how you enjoy the trip. Go prepared, and be pleasantly surprised if it's not bad.


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## ENDOMADNESS

Never do a June Trip again !! 

This is my first time doing Deso also (end of June) is it REALLY that bad? i have been on rivers for the last 17 years and would never give up the oppurtunity to do a river at a better flow....i've seen black flies and skeeters before but never enough to be scared.

Is it like Alaska National Geographic TV show bad?? and its mostly the first 2 days correct? (20 miles)


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## kazak4x4

Bugs are bad the first 27 miles of the trip. After that you get into the canyon and bugs are much less.


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## cataraftgirl

ENDOMADNESS said:


> Never do a June Trip again !!
> 
> This is my first time doing Deso also (end of June) is it REALLY that bad? i have been on rivers for the last 17 years and would never give up the oppurtunity to do a river at a better flow....i've seen black flies and skeeters before but never enough to be scared.
> 
> Is it like Alaska National Geographic TV show bad?? and its mostly the first 2 days correct? (20 miles)


Never in June is my personal choice. My tolerance for getting bit or living in a bug suit for a week is low. On my two June trips, the bugs did not disappear after the first few days. They were less than biblical after day two, but still there, and still biting me. I now do Deso in late April or early May. It's much more enjoyable to me, and the flows are just fine. I don't need high water to have fun on Deso. This is my personal choice.....YMMV.


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## okieboater

Deso Gray float is in my opinion, a lot of fun -- after you get down stream of the put in.

My best advice is rig the day before, get a screened in hut to camp (higher up the hill the better) plan for a early departure. Eat a fast to prepare cold breakfast in the screened in hut, put on bug spray, put on a mesh bug suit (full coverage is super, coat/hood with sox-long pants etc ok) and make a dash to the rafts and push off.

For what it is worth, buying a bug suit is the best comfort item you can buy if you plan to rig at the put in. I also think some type of mesh bug free tarp setup for the cook and eating area is great insurance for the first couple of days. We had flows in the 12,000 cfs range and it was easy to get in the middle of the river and make good time to avoid bugs and make plenty of miles that first day. This was a mid june launch if memory correct.

If you get lucky and no bugs at the put in, give thanks for your good luck. Be prepared with a bug suit and full coverage pants, shoes, shirt etc under the bug hood just in case the bugs are there in force.

I remember at afternoon rig time, looking down at my arms (bug hood, long sleeve shirt and tons of bug spray on my hands - wish I had the cotton work gloves for my hands) and my arms were just covered with bugs doing their best to penetrate the mesh.

It is a great trip, just bug city at the put in - unless you get lucky or it is too cold at launch for the bugs to get going.


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## readNrun

So - anyone have a suggestion on a good bug suit they are happy with?


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## johnovice

I've read good things about thermacell (follow instructions -- can take 15 minutes to be effective). However, there is an acknowledged altitude issue for some of their products beginning around 4,500', and Sand Wash (a bit over that) is just high enough to make me wonder. Some of their products don't have that issue (I think the ones you light with a match). As said, I've "read" good things (and not just from the manufacturer), but no personal experience -- I'm thinking about it -- I too am on a mid-June Deso. A thermacell in the middle of the raft while rigging might just work.
Effective Mosquito Repellent for Outdoor Areas | ThermaCELL


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## Osprey

I’ve had great luck with Thermacells even at altitude.* Put one in the kitchen area and you are pretty much good to go.

*

We almost always do June trips, just the nature of having teachers and people from different parts of the country in our crew.* Yes, the bugs are Alaska/Canada type thick.** Personally, I find them to be more swarming than biting type but you get some bites.** Use some permethrin (do it yourself BugsAway) on your clothes beforehand and I particularly like Ultrathon by 3M.*** Headnet is about all the further I’ve gone but those can get annoying I usually just deal with it.*** Those little fan things with the repellent in them work ok for the kids too.

*

I’ve never gone without getting a cabin or at least sleeping in the back of the car.** *Not too big an issue once you are out on the water but if you try to camp before Jack Creek they are still pretty brutal.* After JC, you tend to get more biting flies and worst of the mosquitoes dies out.** Sometimes I take some of those bug candles too for around the kitchen.* Thermacells are great though and cheap.


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## cataraftgirl

Would the Thermacells work on yellow jackets? We've never had big issues with them on the Main Salmon, but all those reports of killer swarms from last summer has me thinking????

I found a pull over bug jacket with a hood that you could cinch closed around the face. I wore that, with long pants and socks & shoes. A bug jacket when it's hot really sucks. It keeps them from biting, but the constant buzzing around my head & face made me crazy.


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## Osprey

No idea on wasps, etc. Sorry, never used one in a place with enough to gauge it.


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## MrScamp

*Bugs on Ladore in June bad as Deso?*

I have Ladore trip first week of June. Are the notorious Deso bugs as bad up river during the same time frame?


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## gbalko

Is it unheard of to get a motel in Roosevelt or vernal to avoid the bugs at sand wash and show up fully rigged and put in ASAP?


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## David Miller

Bad idea! If you show up late and get a late start you'll camp right in the worst of it. Life is fine in the bug houses and the bugs are not as bad in the morning as they are in the evening. 

Some times the rangers will get you checked in the night before and you can haul ass in the morning. Get an early start and row your brains out the first day!




gbalko said:


> Is it unheard of to get a motel in Roosevelt or vernal to avoid the bugs at sand wash and show up fully rigged and put in ASAP?


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## restrac2000

It can be done. Long morning drive but much of it is paved now. 

Not sure I would want my rig bouncing around on that dirt road myself. A good portion of the road is in a flood basin, i.e. wash; they grade it regularly but its still a rough road for inflated rubber. As well there is not a classic ramp so you would still need to do a partial derig to get the raft in the water. Its a long thick muddy shallows at the put-in so driving the trailer far enough into the river to float your rig is unlikely. 

Best of luck.

Phillip


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## quinoa

It is totally possible to do that. A few years ago the majority of our group camped at Sand Wash. A friend and his family stayed in Roosevelt and met us in the morning at the put in with their boat rigged and on their trailer. The road is bumpy, but I know of many people who have traveled it, including me, with rigged boats on their trailers. It shouldn't be a problem to get your boat in the water if you have enough people to help. Get an early start. Have a great trip!


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## rivergod

How about late Sept? Are the bugs better by then? I've only done Deso in April before they come out in the past.


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## restrac2000

We have never had bug problems on our many August trips so I would imagine September is fine.

It will be interesting to see what the bugs are like in June/July. I have my first last June trip. Having grown up in the south and spent some time in Alaska I am hesitant to believe the mosquitos are really that bad but we will go prepared considering the veracity of the warnings. On camping trips growing up in Virginia I would come home with 300 bites. In Alaska we installed mesh in our truck windows they were so thick (was sleeping in the truck while traveling). In Alaska we almost never left the tent and I carried a pair of tweezers for which I would attract a mosquito to the tent with my arm and then rip off their proboscis. I have never seen bugs so thick in my life. And I grew up with fog trucks coming through our neighborhood weekly to kill the little buggers. 

If the bugs are as bad as people say then I can see why people avoid Deso in June as some have advised. 

Phillip


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## cataraftgirl

restrac2000 said:


> We have never had bug problems on our many August trips so I would imagine September is fine.
> 
> It will be interesting to see what the bugs are like in June/July. I have my first last June trip. Having grown up in the south and spent some time in Alaska I am hesitant to believe the mosquitos are really that bad but we will go prepared considering the veracity of the warnings. On camping trips growing up in Virginia I would come home with 300 bites. In Alaska we installed mesh in our truck windows they were so thick (was sleeping in the truck while traveling). In Alaska we almost never left the tent and I carried a pair of tweezers for which I would attract a mosquito to the tent with my arm and then rip off their proboscis. I have never seen bugs so thick in my life. And I grew up with fog trucks coming through our neighborhood weekly to kill the little buggers.
> 
> If the bugs are as bad as people say then I can see why people avoid Deso in June as some have advised.
> 
> Phillip


I've never been to Alaska, so I can't compare. They are bad enough at Sand Wash, and for the majority of the trip to make me steer clear of June. If I had kids on a June Deso, I'd definitely look into some sort of bug hut for the group communal area.


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## restrac2000

My wife and I are bringing bug shirts.

We are doing the trip for a long time friend who has always wanted to take her kids on a multi-day rafting trip. We have advised them about the mosquitos from these reports and included the recommendation that they purchase a screen shelter. They don't seem to want to invest in one despite our sincere warnings (I would hate for the kids first multi-day trip to be only remembered for its bugs). Unfortunately my wife and I cannot afford to buy one this year nor do we plan on boating that time of year in Deso often as we normally do a birthday trip for a friend in August most years. We just had to purchase a new stove (just sucked it up and bought the 22" inch Partner Steel 2 burner) so our gear budget is shot for the year. 

I will pass on the recommendation again. My backup is to smoke 'em out with a smoldering fire. I am hoping we have something similar to my friend's June trip last year and the memories aren't all about bugs. Fingers crossed but going as prepared as out budget allows.

Phillip


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## restrac2000

*pass on = reiterate to friends again

i.e. not ignore the consistent warnings here ;^)

Phillip


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## melmorr

Mosquitos are non existent at Sand Wash right now. They usually don't come out until the water starts to recede but there are no-see 'ums and possibly biting flies.


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## okieboater

If I were on your trip, I would personally invest the money to buy those kids mesh jackets or at least a mesh hood for a ball cap and be sure they had long sleeve shirts, pants and sox along if doing the Deso in bug season. No matter what the parents do. 

If no bugs, consider the mesh as insurance for future trips. After you get to the Deso put in, no way to purchase anything. Long sleeve shirts and the mesh hood (I got mine at Army Surplus) and they are durable and work great. Having extra mesh bug hoods to offer at the putin will make you a hero for sure, if the bugs are out.

For sure, bring plenty of bug spray and for the kids apply it to their hats, shirts etc not directly to skin as some kiddos have bad reactions to bug spray.

Not meaning to give unwanted advice but there is nothing worse than seeing a kid just get hammered with bug bites when it can be avoided.


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## atg200

I've done Deso in April, late July, and early November, and i've never once seen a bug. Personally, I just wouldn't go from high water peak until there has been a moth or two of very hot weather to kill them off.


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## wchearst

Just got off of Deso, great trip! No mosquitos, bears and few races to camps. We did have a motor (Say what you want, i thought it was great). We went w/ the flight shuttle (9 ppl, 4 boats, 2 vehicles) seemed worth it to me. We did 5 nights, lay-over at the flats. Favorite camp was right at joe hutch rapid. Make sure you head right quick or you will miss it.


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## restrac2000

*Deso Update: Lotsa Bears & Moderate Bugs*

Just took off Deso yesterday and was shocked at the # of bear problems every group we encountered had. After floating for years we had never had camp problems until now. This trip we only had one camp encounter at the Upper Wire Fence Camp. It was a medium sized cinnamon colored black bear that swam across the river to enter our camp. It appears to be feeding heavily on the Skunk Berry:

Skunkbush (Squawbush; Sumac; Skunkbrush Sumac) - Arches National Park (U.S. National Park Service)

There a ton of these berries upstream of the camp and scat was everywhere. Rangers had an encounter with the bear at the camp just days before. It is curious by not aggressive at all. It ran from us when we grouped up and banged pots and pans and blew our whistles. It never swam back across the river and instead hunkered down in some thickets where the cliff pinches off by the river. It never returned after the initial encounter at 4 pm that afternoon.

Every group we passed and met at the takeout had multiple camp encounters that spanned the river from Jack Creek downriver. All had similar safe outcomes.

Please keep a clean camp, secure food, lockup you groover at night and secure trash (we hung ours from a tree). These bears seem to be acting wild and are not aggressive or accustomed to food yet. If we keep it that way they may survive the season.

Mosquittos were moderate to Cedar Ridge. We used our Original Bug Shirt at dusk and dawn a few hours a day. The Thermacell lantern we used helped eliminate most around dinner. That said, even the young boy on our trip who refused to wear long pants only ended up with 45 bites the first 2 days. A reliable seasoned source said the last bad year was 2011 with the 40k-ish floods and said this year was a 2 or 3 out of 10. The biting flies were out in moderate levels from Cedar Ridge downriver.

6k-7k seems to be a great level. Only saw 3 groups between Day 1 and Poverty, then we all collided as usual the last day.

Be bear smart and have a great summer in Deso.

Phillip


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## boatmusher

No dogs allowed. Increase in bear encounters. Hmmmm.....


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## restrac2000

boatmusher said:


> No dogs allowed. Increase in bear encounters. Hmmmm.....


Not sure we can jump to that conclusion....they banned dogs several years ago and it didn't seem to have much of an affect until now. More likely we are just seeing a classic bump in population connected to the slightly above average plant yield from finally experiencing an average year of flows. If they don't get into rafter food the next couple weeks I would predict they disperse more once the berry crops die off.

I actually see it as a sign of a healthy ecosystem....they are acting wild and leaving easily when confronted. All of them sounded like young bears who had never encountered or been fed by humans. We just happen to be attracted to the safe riparian areas this time of year. We are the visitors.

Phillip


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## kp2architects

*bears on Deso*

We took off of Deso on July 29th after a 6 day trip. We saw no bears nor any sign of them at all. Mosquitos were very bad from Sand Wash to about Jack Creek and from then on practically nonexistent. Gnats were annoying at Rattlesnack beach camp.


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## johnovice

Rotting cow farther up the eddy at Poverty stunk!
Fortunately the breeze was as usual up canyon.
That was back around June 19.


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## restrac2000

johnovice said:


> Rotting cow farther up the eddy at Poverty stunk!
> Fortunately the breeze was as usual up canyon.
> That was back around June 19.


Didn't see that one but there were many. Worst was at the scout for Steer Ridge, bad enough to gag.

Evidently a bear was feeding on one carcass at Ute side camp across from Cedar Ridge but was a no show the day we were there.

Phillip


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## Kris M

*Desolation questions.... Bears and fires*

Hey Buzzards. We are launching July 20 and looking for some info.

Bears...... What strategies have you used for coolers? I saw the electric fence thread but that isn't gonna happen for this trip. What do you do with a full cooler of food?
Leaving on the raft seems an invitation for the boat to be ripped apart by a hungry bear.

Also, anyone know if there are fire and/or charcoal bans in place.
Thanks for the info!!

Kris


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## kengore

The ranger spoke to us about bears prior to launch. There have been several bear sightings in camps recently, in one case the bear swam the river to get to the campsite.

He explained that the region has always had a large bear population but they had previously avoided the campsites. At this time the bears are acting curious but have not raided coolers or boats. Most likely drawn by food and trash odors.

The authorities hope that by more stringent camping practice we can prevent the bears from becoming a problem AND avoid regulations that require bear proof fences or containers. 

The ranger suggested...

1. Store all trash and food away from sleeping sights, NO food in tents
2. Clean kitchen and eating areas of all food and waste scraps immediately, don't linger on dishes and let the odor waft around
3. Pack all trash in tightly sealed containers to reduce odor, not just a plastic bag or two. Treat recycled cans the same.
4. Be aware that scented lotions, shampoos and other product also smell like food
5. Attempt to frighten off curious bears by grouping together (larger threat) and banging pots and pans, flashing bright lights etc.

Our trip experience....

No fire or charcoal ban in effect during our trip July 3 - July 9. Lots of drift wood available, but way too hot to even want a fire. Doing dutch oven cooking duty over hot coals was considered hazard duty on our trip.

No bear sightings. We left coolers on boats (all food in tightly sealed containers) but collected all open food and trash to a pile away from camp. Used 5 gal buckets and 20mm ammo cans with double plastic bag liners for trash. We dribbled clorox bleach over stinky garbage to make it smell less appetizing (wishful thinking?)


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## wookie

kengore said:


> The ranger spoke to us about bears prior to launch. There have been several bear sightings in camps recently, in one case the bear swam the river to get to the campsite.
> 
> He explained that the region has always had a large bear population but they had previously avoided the campsites. At this time the bears are acting curious but have not raided coolers or boats. Most likely drawn by food and trash odors.
> 
> The authorities hope that by more stringent camping practice we can prevent the bears from becoming a problem AND avoid regulations that require bear proof fences or containers.
> 
> The ranger suggested...
> 
> 1. Store all trash and food away from sleeping sights, NO food in tents
> 2. Clean kitchen and eating areas of all food and waste scraps immediately, don't linger on dishes and let the odor waft around
> 3. Pack all trash in tightly sealed containers to reduce odor, not just a plastic bag or two. Treat recycled cans the same.
> 4. Be aware that scented lotions, shampoos and other product also smell like food
> 5. Attempt to frighten off curious bears by grouping together (larger threat) and banging pots and pans, flashing bright lights etc.
> 
> Our trip experience....
> 
> No fire or charcoal ban in effect during our trip July 3 - July 9. Lots of drift wood available, but way too hot to even want a fire. Doing dutch oven cooking duty over hot coals was considered hazard duty on our trip.
> 
> No bear sightings. We left coolers on boats (all food in tightly sealed containers) but collected all open food and trash to a pile away from camp. Used 5 gal buckets and 20mm ammo cans with double plastic bag liners for trash. We dribbled clorox bleach over stinky garbage to make it smell less appetizing (wishful thinking?)


 I;ve used amonia on new painters rags that I had and put them on the door handles of my truck, the bear got in my f150 not sure maybe with his nose(the (2002 handles pull up) took a box of chicken, and full bag of toistatos (chips)In the morning the door was open, to the truck,but no damage Imagine , if the door had swung shut, they crap everywere then they think there traped.


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## wookie

Another time I left the Engels out side and it carryed both off,maybe 30 yards tooth marks(only a couply on the lid, but the latches torn right off,So its off to see Ron at River Boat Works, in salida, about $10.00 dollars apiece, but the coolers were fine.


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## restrac2000

Fire restrictions are popping up like crazy in Utah. Deso hovers between three fire zones/districts and 2 out of the 3 have officially restricted campfires and charcoal. For some reason Price BLM (Carbon County side of river) has not restricted use yet. So......theoretically it is okay to have fires/charcoal cooking from about 9 mile downriver on river left only; above there and river right its restricted. That said, all state lands and surrounding BLM have all banned fires which means conditions are dangerous right now. Considering we lost a prime campsite to a campfire last season it seems best to recommend we don't have fires in there as a community until conditions change (i.e. early autumn). That would definitely be in the spirit of what is going on (monsoon started around the 3rd this year).

Fire Restrictions


Phillip


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## restrac2000

We were the group at Wire Fence (upper) that had the bear swim across the river and check us out. It had come into the ranger's camp a couple days before but we assumed it had moseyed on. It took about a while but we scared it back upriver away from us.

We closed the groover when not in use; always had food stored in closed containers on the boat when not in use; cleaned all dishes and work surfaces immediately; and hung our garbage from a tall tree (15 feet-ish up). The bear never returned nor did we see him again.

Please keep clean camps and if concerned avoid the campsites most visited (Range is a perennial visitation). Its great to have a population of bears that seem healthy and maintain a wild behavior (i.e. curious but not aggressive until someone feeds them). 

Phillip


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## Alaskajim

*Bears will be bears.*

Most of my boating is in Alaska. Bears - Black and Grizzly - are a fact of life on every trip. We've had many bears approach our camps but none have ever behaved in a manner to warrant being shot. We do carry firearms and bear spray and know how to use both. One thing I know for sure about bears is that they are unpredictable. I also know that once a bear gets a free meal it will be back to your camp or someone else's. 

Much good advice given in other posts. I'll add, keeping your table and stove clean is important. I know it's a pain but recommend putting your clean dishes back in the box and keep the box on the boat. Ammonia or clorox helps but bears have good noses and can differentiate odor. A common mistake is not wiping down coolers after handling food - if you pick up that uneaten chicken breast, bag it and put in back in the cooler you will leave odor on the cooler. Wash your hands and wipe down the cooler every night. We keep all food, garbage, trash, empty cans, etc on the boat every night, keep them in a rocket box if you can. We rinse our empty cans. Despite extra weight and volume use as many tents as you have people - similar to advice about groups of people. If a bear does visit your camp/boat despite your best efforts do not be afraid to use bear spray (be aware of blowback) - it works. Many folks in Alaska prefer bear spray to firearms - bear spray is easier and many people are not well skilled in the use of high caliber handguns. IMO if more bears got a nose/eye full of bear spray they'd tend to avoid humans. 

All this said. It won't be one thing that keeps bears out of your camp - it will be the cumulative affect of all you do. Good luck and don't let Mr. Bruin keep you out of the woods or off the river.


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## Kris M

Thanks for all the information. It's helpful to know what others do. 
I did look on the BLM web sites and searched fire restrictions, but nothing current came up. I'm sure we will get the up to date info at the put in. 
We will be sure to keep a clean camp!!! 
Kris


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## quinoa

Sounds like the bears in Deso are behaving themselves recently, but with bears you just never know. Here's how it went once for us/me. Dinner time and a good meal was cooked and eaten by all. Dishes, pots, pans and all cooking utensils promptly cleaned, bleached/sanitized and stored in kitchen dry box on boat. Tables wiped down with bleach water and stored on boats. Trash stored in rocket box on boat. Coolers latched and strapped close on boats. Groover closed up in rocket box. Tents set up away from cooking area and boats. Time to go to sleep. I rub lotion on my sunburned arms and crawl into my bag for a good nights sleep. I am frightfully brought out of my slumber by a bear clamping down on my forearm looking for his next meal. I was lucky to escape with four large puncture wounds where the bear had bit me. It was my fault not the bears, I fu--ed up, and I realized my mistake as soon as it happened. You can never be to careful in bear country! Don't use a scented lotion before going to sleep!


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## brzcr

I spoke with BLM Price office yesterday and fire restrictions went into effect on the 10th: Charcoal in a fire pan or propane only. DOW in CO had previously rec'd to me using an air horn for a problem bear. It worked like vodoo magic.


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## Schutzie

The Alaska ranger I talked to once advised wearing bells on your shoes and carrying bear repellant.
He also advised knowing how to spot bear scat, and how to identify the type of bear...........

A black bear is generally less aggressive, and eats berries, twigs, and such. In black bear scat you will see berry seeds, twigs, and so on.

A brown bear or grizzly is more aggressive, and in addition to berries and such, will eat meat. His scat will have berry seeds, twigs, smashed bells and crushed cans of bear repellant...........


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## geobucket

We put on at Sand Wash on the 8th, and took off on the 15th. Saw 2 bears, and heard reports of a couple others from passing groups. Tracks and scat near or at some other camps. Rangers will pretty much provide the same advice seen in this thread. We carried bear spray and an air horn.

Since we volunteered that we wouldn't have fires or charcoal, that part of the discussion was abbreviated.

Bugs: Not bad anywhere, but some everywhere. A few mosquitos at SW, annoying gnats (especially at Mushroom), some biting flies mostly in the lower half.


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## [email protected]

Schutzie said:


> The Alaska ranger I talked to once advised wearing bells on your shoes and carrying bear repellant.
> He also advised knowing how to spot bear scat, and how to identify the type of bear...........
> 
> A black bear is generally less aggressive, and eats berries, twigs, and such. In black bear scat you will see berry seeds, twigs, and so on.
> 
> A brown bear or grizzly is more aggressive, and in addition to berries and such, will eat meat. His scat will have berry seeds, twigs, smashed bells and crushed cans of bear repellant...........[/QUOTE
> 
> Since I am pretty sure there are no "Brown / Grizzly" bears in Colorado or Utah there is not much reason to worry about their eating habits.


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## restrac2000

Another report from a friend about bears....

Non-agressive encounter at Mushroom Rock camp of a bear that came into camp in the middle of the night and sniffed his tent. Scared off but not far. 

That is the 2nd encounter I personally know of at that camp as it is a friend who stated this and my wife floated by a young one there in May. 

Be safe....they luckily still seem to be skittish and shy...hopefully we can keep it that way.

Phillip


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## MOJO

*deso and bears*

All the posts has anyone had one in camp or cause a problem?


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## Andy H.

ADMIN NOTE:

A bunch of recent Deso threads are now all combined into this one. Here's yer one-stop Deso Q&A place. Please bear (yuk, yuk) this in mind when reading the thread.

have fun!

-AH


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## restrac2000

MOJO said:


> All the posts has anyone had one in camp or cause a problem?


Ours came into Camp at Wire Fence but was easily scared off (with 30 minutes of antagonism on our part). Ranger's had an encounter with bear in this camp a couple days before us. Same results.

Friend at Mushroom Rock had it come into camp and sniff him in his tent. Scared it away from tent but stayed closer than wanted so he packed up (way) early in the morning and floated down river a bit. Wasn't an aggressive bear but he was being cautious as a solo floater.

Phillip


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## lmyers

I have a permit for September 10th. Wondering if the bears will still be loading up on berries for the hibernation, or will have already moved on by that point? Planning to bring bear spray and air horns regardless...had a friend attacked a few years back though so I am a little concerned. Thanks.


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## rivers2run

We raft a lot on the Rogue and find electric bear fences work very well. Most of the camps on the Rogue have electric exclosure fences. We also have a very portable set we put around our boats. We stick the rods in our frames and put it around our boats. It has been very effective, we camp frequently in bear country so definitely worth the cost. The BLM should set up some exclosures they can contact the BLM on the Rogue for more information. You can purchase on line or visit your local Grange or farm store. Worked very well on the Tat in Alaska as well. Rogue loans out a set for rafters.


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## restrac2000

lmyers said:


> I have a permit for September 10th. Wondering if the bears will still be loading up on berries for the hibernation, or will have already moved on by that point? Planning to bring bear spray and air horns regardless...had a friend attacked a few years back though so I am a little concerned. Thanks.


Can't think of any native berries that would still be going crazy that late but maybe someone else will more localized experience will know better. I doubt they are hibernating that early as the nighttime temps are still rather moderate; I would expect they enter their unique form of hibernation in that region sometime in mid to late October (I still saw a bear at low elevation in the High Uintas last October while thru-hiking the high line trail at 10k-ish).

My guess is you won't have many negative encounters with bears unless they get fed this summer. Thus far there are no reports of that happening but that could be incomplete and there is still some summer left. I would keep an eye here and then call the Price district and ask about recent reports as time launch approaches. From what I understand the bears that have been reported to interact with humans in Deso were either previously fed by careless campers or attracted to food or scented items in the tents (rumor is the OB trip attack years ago was from a guy who had food product in his dreads). 

I am a little less concerned about bears but totally understand going prepared differently considered the experience of your friend. I hope its nothing but a pleasant float. Would love to hear a TR when you get back as we are going as a one boat anniversary trip in October and we have never been in the autumn. 

Take Care.

Phillip


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## NathanMaxon

On July 11, 2014 a black bear approached our party while having lunch in the cottonwoods about a mile below the Price river confluence. He was a dark male and weighed about 250 pounds. We had to throw rocks at him before he would leave. Don't forget the bear spray.


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## TUNACAT

*2 Bears*

Just took off last night. Camped at Jack Creek, Log Cabin and below Wire Fence Rapid. Sitting in camp below wire fence (after swimming it multiple times with our kids) and someone spotted the bear right above the rapid on river left. We thought he was just getting a drink, then he started swimming and went down wire fence. We figured with the current he would end up right in front of us before he got out, so we started banging on pots and pans and he visibly started swimming faster. Got out just above us and started running into the bushes. Next day we saw another bear (wasn't the same bear), 1 mile below Wire Fence on river right. 

We talked to Western who said that they stayed the same place the night before and had an aggressive teenage bear that wouldn't go away. They had to spray with pepper spray and take shifts to stay up all night.


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## PoppyOscar

*No bears, some skeeters, biting flys.*

Just got off Deso Thursday morning with Kris M.
Put in Sunday Morning with some skeeters. A little bug spray solved that, did bring a bug hood just in case.
No bear sightings but lots of tracks mostly small, one set was fairly large. We scouted each campsite for berries, scat and tracks. Felt the less of each reduced the likely hood of a bruin visit.
The biting flies were minor but ganged up on the last day of the float starting at Rattlesnake. I can only assume that they must have morphed and acquired a taste for Cutters repellant.


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## MOJO

Biting flies were nasty a few weekends back on the green river daily!!! Put in deso the 17th August I hope the berries have dried up and bears have moved on if not oh well always brings excitement to a camp at night!!


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## ENDOMADNESS

Late June. Sow and cub river left camp below Joe Hutch. We were camped river right (standard camp). Both camp sites were in full bacon cookin mode.

The commercial trip (left camp) had to scare them off pretty good, right in camp (pots,pans, paco pad slamming). The bears proceeded up the cliff that overlooks the rapid (left)....was scary to watch. 

The cub was about 10 feet from the top ledge when it was just gripping on for its life...they retreated and found another route. Lucky our little kids didn't have to watch the cub swim Joe Hutch


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## PoppyOscar

*cub swim*

I can sympathize with the cub swimming Joe Hutch. My 12 footer didn't work out so well punching through the second hole. Ejected and still sporting a scrap on the helmet with a cherry on my left leg.


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## MOJO

PoppyOscar said:


> I can sympathize with the cub swimming Joe Hutch. My 12 footer didn't work out so well punching through the second hole. Ejected and still sporting a scrap on the helmet with a cherry on my left leg.


Tell me more about the hole your talking about. I got invited for this trip was told it was a booze cruise!!! I'm in a 10"9 boat.


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## David Miller

Joe Hutch is on a curve in the river and you can't see what's coming if you just read and run. I know because I tried it. I almost hit a large rock. Best to scout this one. If you do you won't have a problem avoiding the hazards. People do this in small boats and Duckies all the time.


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## MOJO

Will due don't want to lose my brew!!!!


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## PoppyOscar

MOJO said:


> Tell me more about the hole your talking about. I got invited for this trip was told it was a booze cruise!!! I'm in a 10"9 boat.


We ran Joe Hutch at 3500 ish. There's is a sizable rock at river right causing a hole. Scout it stay left and you will be fine. My swim was more from looking at my rowing instead of where I wanted to row.

There are three that follow worthy of scouting. Three Fords being the one requiring a close eye. My coach laid out a line from right to left.

Just take the crests head on, dig deep and let out a whoop when you top each wave. 

The others are less drops but more rock gardens with FU rocks that will hose your line if aren't looking.


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## cataraftgirl

I did Deso last spring at 5000 cfs in a 12 foot raft and had a blast. Movin & Groovin in the little boat was a ton of fun. +1 on scouting Joe Hutch.


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## Gremlin

Just got off Deso today. Bears are everywhere. We saw four and the other groups we shared the river with all had their own sightings and stories. Our first was at The Log Cabin #2. An adolescent walked up the right bank across from our rafts and we watched him run out of real estate against the cliff and swim across to Log Cabin #1 and then head up the side canyon. No one else was camped at the Log Cabin sights and we didn't see any tracks or scat so we guessed he might be hanging around Rock Creek and just was heading upriver and passing through. We kept the camp clean and never saw him again.

The second bear we saw was just above Joe Hutch rapid. We stopped to scout after passing him and watched him get in the river and swim across a half mile upriver. We were at the rapid early in the day and the only tracks on the scouting trail were the bears. Had we arrived a few minutes earlier we would have encountered him on the trail. That day, we stopped at McPherson Ranch and also scouted Wire Fence and both stops were full of tracks.

The Rangers had asked that people not camp at Wire Fence because of the problems recently with an aggressive bear so we floated down to Range Creek #1. We walked down to #2 to see which camp we would pick and looked for any signs of bears and saw nothing so we stayed at #1. While mixing up chocolate cake batter inside the screen shelter I saw a furry back passing on the other side of the table just outside the screen! My wife grabbed the air horn and he hightailed it into the hills with her blowing the horn up his ass until she realized just what she was doing. We had brought an electric fence and set it up around the kitchen. We brought the coolers and dryboxes up from the rafts for the night. We slept far away from the kitchen. In the morning we found he had been zapped and he dug deep into the sand and ran off. We were more surprised to find he had also jumped onto the boats! He tasted my waterproof map case and perforated my map! He also got up on the second raft and bit holes into an empty water jug! That bear knows that rafts equal food! 

The fourth bear was a few miles down at Rabbit Valley across from a group camped there that was chasing it off.

Definitely a fun and exciting trip and... NO BUGS!


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## PoppyOscar

Gremlin said:


> Just got off Deso today. Bears are everywhere. We saw four and the other groups we shared the river with all had their own sightings and stories. Our first was at The Log Cabin #2. An adolescent walked up the right bank across from our rafts and we watched him run out of real estate against the cliff and swim across to Log Cabin #1 and then head up the side canyon. No one else was camped at the Log Cabin sights and we didn't see any tracks or scat so we guessed he might be hanging around Rock Creek and just was heading upriver and passing through. We kept the camp clean and never saw him again.
> 
> The second bear we saw was just above Joe Hutch rapid. We stopped to scout after passing him and watched him get in the river and swim across a half mile upriver. We were at the rapid early in the day and the only tracks on the scouting trail were the bears. Had we arrived a few minutes earlier we would have encountered him on the trail. That day, we stopped at McPherson Ranch and also scouted Wire Fence and both stops were full of tracks.
> 
> The Rangers had asked that people not camp at Wire Fence because of the problems recently with an aggressive bear so we floated down to Range Creek #1. We walked down to #2 to see which camp we would pick and looked for any signs of bears and saw nothing so we stayed at #1. While mixing up chocolate cake batter inside the screen shelter I saw a furry back passing on the other side of the table just outside the screen! My wife grabbed the air horn and he hightailed it into the hills with her blowing the horn up his ass until she realized just what she was doing. We had brought an electric fence and set it up around the kitchen. We brought the coolers and dryboxes up from the rafts for the night. We slept far away from the kitchen. In the morning we found he had been zapped and he dug deep into the sand and ran off. We were more surprised to find he had also jumped onto the boats! He tasted my waterproof map case and perforated my map! He also got up on the second raft and bit holes into an empty water jug! That bear knows that rafts equal food!
> 
> The fourth bear was a few miles down at Rabbit Valley across from a group camped there that was chasing it off.
> 
> Definitely a fun and exciting trip and... NO BUGS!


This would be my size 13 teva next to tracks at McPherson Ranch beach.


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## mooreso

*Desolation Trip Report*

This is more personal narrative than trip report.
I had fun writing this. Maybe a few of you will enjoy the story. 
I know, I know; I shouldn't be on the river if I can't fix my boat. Please spare me the lecture.

July 21 - 26
CFS 3500 - 3000
Temps 97 - 103 during day/60's at night. The heat was stunning from about 2 -6pm every day
Bugs - A few mosquitoes early on, some nasty deerfly looking flies throughout
Bears - We saw none. Comrades saw a bear at Log Cabin jump in the river and swim over to Rock Creek

My wife and children (11 and 9) and I ran a friend's 16' Avon down Deso. We used River Runners out of Vernal for our shuttle; completely reliable folks. The last few miles of the road into Sand Wash had flooded recently and the drive in took an additional 45 minutes on slippery mud. We blew up the boat and wedged it among the others so as to be able to rig in the morning. The bugs were mostly gone but we were still glad to have the Bradley Cabin the night before launch.

Katie (sp?) the Ranger was bright and perky, and we launched under blue sky in light winds. A couple of motored groups passed by; I'd left an engine at home b/c I didn't want to deal with the fuel, mount, etc and b/c the forecast predicted mild winds. And so it was.

By late afternoon we were above Rock House Riffle when a loud pop/hiss/gurgle preceded the collapse of our floor. Suddenly we were in a bucket boat without a bucket. We pulled out at Stampede, unrigged, flipped the boat, sent Maggie underneath w/ the pump hose, soaped the floor and pumped. We found the leak underneath the floor’s 6th drainage hole on the front right of the raft, an awkward spot. It looked like a seam had separated slightly.

We opened my friend’s repair kit and immediately felt the tug of trouble. He is a former aircraft mechanic, prepared to fix anything anywhere, and the ammo box was stuffed with more glues than seemed necessary and a few tools we didn’t recognize and at least three types of valves and a variety of tapes and patches and, of course, no instructions. It was near dusk but still 95 degrees, we were all bitten, burned, hungry and cranky, we were filthy from mucking around on that muddy beach where our gear was strewn, and I had no confidence that we could fix the hole in our boat. But Michelle would have none of it. She remained upbeat and encouraging, she led a family cheer earlier when we found the hole, and now she insisted we could handle this. She gave us jobs, organized camp, and fixed supper before we lost light.
We then chose a glue and carefully dabbed at the hole. I only drank three beers that night instead of the four I’d budgeted for. I didn’t know when we’d get off this river.

We woke early, turned the boat over and rigged in the gray light. Our plan now was to manage the boat to Jack’s and look for help, thinking that Jack’s has a flat beach/work area where many groups stop to take stock. We hoped we could at least find someone to advise us. As we loaded, a raft drifted by with a young couple running it. It still wasn’t much past 7am. The girl said they had camped that night on the huge beach below Rock House Riffle, river left, and her dad had awakened before dawn and found one of their boats gone. He’d told his daughter and then jumped in a duckie to chase it down; they were now chasing after him about an hour later, w/ the rest of the group still at camp. The dad chased that boat all the way to Cedar Ridge, where he waited for his group to catch up. And now the best part: the missing boat had drifted 75 yards upstream in the beach eddy, where it had parked and waited.

We rigged the leaky Avon with all the weight on the frame, put the kids on the tubes and a few puffs in the floor, and pushed off. The long drift around Peter’s was easy enough, w/ a bit of a tailwind, and we bounced thru Jack’s without taking on water. The beach at Jack’s was empty, and after a half hour we decided to push on. The boat was a bit sluggish, the floor was flat, and water filled the raft when we stepped on the floor, but one way or another we had to take it downstream. We fought the pm wind and were happy to camp at Cedar Ridge 1 with its glorious shade tree. And that’s when the helicopter arrived.

The chopper came over the west wall and almost directly over our camp, with a long cable and a large bucket underneath. It hovered over the river above Firewater Rapid, very near the takeout for the moonshiner’s hike. The pilot lowered the bucket into the river, and in less than two minutes he was climbing out of the canyon behind Nutter’s Rock. He came back a half dozen times that afternoon, a noisy jarring disruption of our solitude, and a way cool thing to watch. I later found out firefighters were dealing with a large blaze about 20 miles west of our Deso campground that afternoon.
There seemed little chance of signaling the pilot and arranging for my crippled boat and tired family to be flown out of the canyon, so I began talking to passing floaters about our Avon. A two boat group landed at Cedar Ridge 3, and the TL agreed to come look at our boat after he’d set camp. Jake was just who we needed. He evaluated the damage, helped us unrig (again), helped us set the boat at an angle to drain and dry the spot. He came back an hour later, mixed glue, and using scissors, sticks and four hands managed to smear a half cup of glue in and around the hole. We then clamped the spot b/t an ammo can and a rock. Jake said goodnight as the light faded.

The next morning, our 3rd on the river, we rigged our boat from scratch for the 3rd time. We pumped the floor about half way and it held. Jake dropped by for the celebration and we were on the water.

The floor held up well for the next two days. I thought a big wave on the right might dislodge the glue, and I tried to baby that side. And so, of course, we kissed the wall at Lower Wild Horse, a rapid that seems to have more kick at lower levels. At Steer Ridge, you can’t go too far left at the entrance, but the rapid itself is pretty mild at this level. Below Steer Ridge the wind picked up and we were going nowhere. I was rowing from a paco pad laid across a box, a new experience for me, and I’ll never go back to a chair. Here’s why. I moved a little left on the paco and Michelle sat next to me. We each worked a single oar with two hands ineffectively for a few minutes, then found our rhythm and pounded that boat downstream. We did this three or four times in Gray’s; I like working next to my girl, and I felt stronger throughout the day because of her help.

We camped at Three Canyon with its football field beach and spectacular shade, but with the temp at 103 all Michelle and I wanted was a nap. The kids swam and played soccer and ran around the beach and generally made me feel crippled and old. That night we set the tent but slept out and watched the storms flash in the night. Around 5 – 530am we heard thunder up canyon, where a darker cloud now rumbled in the gray sky. Michelle and I decided to start packing up, and here is a vivid memory. It is 75 degrees, and we are naked, pink and brown, walking up and down this soft white sand beach under low light and low clouds with our belongings, and the clouds keep changing colors, and there are shafts of sunlight but no sun, and there’s lightning and thunder to the north, and the wind swirls and raindrops fall and stop and fall, and we are carrying our things to the boat, to leave. We were surprisingly inefficient trying to leave that beach: the strange light and weird beauty was distracting, but even more, the storm was oppressive, seeming to say Danger! Danger! Hide in the Tent Puny Humans. Getting on the water during a storm is counterintuitive, and it took some effort to stay focused on doing just that.

We were floating by 8am, under gray skies and on easy water. At Red Point, a small rapid, I took the right center channel and immediately hung up on two or three rocks; the run must be left. Michelle threw herself against the front of the boat, trying to inch us off the rocks. I stepped out of the back of the boat on to a rock, a move that spooked my kids (Where’s Papa going?). After a few minutes we finally jiggled and wiggled ourselves off the rocks and slid down the river to the first Joe Hutch, an easy channel between boulders.
I never used to scout the second Joe Hutch, either before or after the flood. The run was always down the tongue and have fun. But lots of groups seem to be taking a look beforehand, and we did too. And maybe it has changed, is less the wave train of the ‘90’s and more about three waves. We followed Jake and his wife into the rapid (we’d met up at the scout): left of the 1st wave (a thunderous run-able hole at high water) and straight into the 2nd wave. Except Jake went a little left and his wife went a little right and they both missed most of the 3rd wave on their respective sides. I took the tourist route, headfirst into both waves, pleased by the squeaks and screams of my family.

When we pulled into the eddy at McPherson’s for lunch, the floor was flat again, the boat filling with water with every step.

Johnny and Maggie took about 100 pictures on their cameras in Deso, and 80 of them are of the wreckage of the Ouray Lodge. The destruction is fascinating, and the presence of a bat in one room added to the charm. We took a picture of the four of us in the door way of the McPherson ranch house. It is the same picture Michelle and I took 21 summers ago, in 1993.

We slogged on down to Wire Fence, avoiding weight on and talk of the damn floor. The 1st two camps were taken, but the group that lost their boat the 1st night was lunching on the beach at the 3rd camp and waved us in. They soon moved on, and another group arrived with 20 folks on commercial rafts and a half dozen duckies. We invited them to share the beach and Halleluiah!: within an hour I had a cold Baba in one hand and a halibut taco in the other. The group was a couple of former guides, the families they’d raised, a friend’s family, a few current guides from the same company, a mix of personal and company EQ…. But damn the logistics, these folks could cook, and we enjoyed talking till sunset about parenting, rivers and recycling plants while all the kids splashed in the river and ran through the dunes.

We woke up early. I wanted to run Three Fords with this group in case we ran into trouble, but the floor had managed some type of magical self-repair in the night, and we cautiously pumped enough air in to let it slough water. Three Fords has a left of center entrance at higher levels, but on this day it was follow the current (not the bank) on the right, slip over the 1st wave, stay off the wall and hold on. And our floor held just fine. We floated much of Gray’s with our Wire Fence Friends, thru Range Creek (doesn’t look like you can get left of that rock, but you will) and Rabbit Valley. The push to Coal Creek was slow and slower, as usual.

Coal Creek seemed different to me. There was debris on the rocks coming out of the canyon and leading to the tongue, but I couldn’t tell if this was from high water or a recent flash in the canyon. The current leading to the rapid wasn’t as pushy as in the past; we were able to hang at the entrance for 10 – 15 seconds and pick a line, almost pool/drop style. The rest of the run was as always a straightforward maze of boulders, but the entrance struck me as broader, easier, less intimidating. Probably just senelity.

Our friends camped at Coal Creek, and we floated down to Poverty for the night. Except there was no camping at Poverty; the long narrow beach was covered in logs, sticks, snags, and trees resembling Viking warships, with only a few patches of open sand at the downstream end. We coasted on to Rattlesnake, letting the kids swim behind the boat while holding the bowline.

I have bad luck at Rattlesnake. This day was no exception. Usually I run a paddleboat too close to that big mother wave and come out sideways and lose a passenger or hit a hole backwards or clip a rock or celebrate too early. On this day I pointed perfectly at what was a mild mother wave, pulled off the rock, and set my left oar to pivot. But the blade hit a rock. And stuck. The oar lifted out of my hand, out of the boat, stood straight up. I thought for a moment the entire boat might rise up on the oar, like a pole-vaulter, and crash back into the river. But the blade slipped free and the oar fell into the water, held close by the keeper strap. We pulled the oar up and slammed it into the oarlock, the water sloshing around my knees in the boat. It only took about ten seconds to regain control of the boat as we slid sideways thru the bottom of Rattlesnake, but during that brief time my sweet children heard some incredibly loud and extremely offensive language.

The group at the Rattlesnake camp had four or five boats stretched from one end of the beach to the other, a clear sign to other floaters, but I asked anyway. The TL, a Guy from Salida, said he’d shared the camp the previous night and did not want to again. The vibe was sullen and unhappy, and we were off the beach in minutes.

We camped at Nefertiti, as far downstream of the put-in as possible. The cottonwoods here are wonderful, and they come with a picnic table, a pit toilet and a parking lot. We thought the locals might come out to celebrate Pioneer Days with guns and beer and what-all, and there were the remains of two bonfires on the beach, but only one car came up the road all afternoon, at dusk, and it barely slowed before heading back downstream. What we did get was the Boys from Burma.

A middle-aged guy wearing a missionary’s smile and a dirty Hagger golf shirt walked across the beach. He talked about his trip for 15 minutes, and the short of it is: He and a handful of LDS guides had brought 30+ Burmese boy scouts/refugees/orphans down Deso. Some of the boys spoke some English, and a few of them had been on a river. Can you imagine: a mob of 16 year olds, eager, inexperienced, in the Utah desert, 12,000 miles from home. He said two of the boys oared boats thru Coal Creek, and two others took an IK far right on Three Fords and underneath the leaning rock. That’s hard to believe, but he said he had it on video and would post it. His group camped at the put-in and politely spilled across the upstream end of the beach.

Those boys were still snoring when my family took to the water the next morning. We knew the takeout would be busy on a Saturday and we chose to try to get down there early. The only boats to beat us out were two from the Rattlesnake camp that coasted downstream at about 7am. I had the thought that someone was running a semi-permanent camp at Rattlesnake, passing the beach on to friends and acquaintances, but that’s probably just me being pissy.

At Butler we saw a group packing to leave. On the front of one boat was a gigantic box, and onto it two guys were strapping the largest set of elk horns I’ve ever seen, skull attached. The group had a commercial logo on their boats, but none of the crew looked like paying customers. It was an odd scene that has stuck with me, something seeming fishy. Is it legal to remove things like this from public land?

The float to Swasey’s was easy, my kids each taking the oars for a stretch of slack water. We unrigged and ran, and there is nothing else to tell, because leaving the river is always a sadness into which I’d rather not delve. However, the return to civilization came with one consolation I never get on spring trips: the cantaloupe and honeydew from the Green River fruit stands.


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## Kris M

Mooreso..... Enjoyed reading the recount of your trip. 
We launched July 20 and took off July 24. We spent our last night (july23) camped on the beach at Rattlesnake... So whoever got there after us hadn't been there long, we had it all to ourselves ( and it seemed to be a rather large camp that could be used by a couple groups with little to no interaction between the groups). It was really hot inland, so we camped right on the edge of the river. and then at sleep time..... it started to sprinkle.... Put the rain fly on the tent.... Resulting in an uncomfortable last night and little sleep. 

I was concerned about targeting it (rattlesnake camp) for our last night, but after chatting with others we had leapfrogged down the corridor with, it worked out ok because they were shooting for higher camps. 
If there had been someone staked out there.... Would be a different story.... 
SYOTR
Kris M.


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## asleep.at.the.oars

mooreso said:


> Coal Creek seemed different to me. There was debris on the rocks coming out of the canyon and leading to the tongue, but I couldn’t tell if this was from high water or a recent flash in the canyon. The current leading to the rapid wasn’t as pushy as in the past; we were able to hang at the entrance for 10 – 15 seconds and pick a line, almost pool/drop style. The rest of the run was as always a straightforward maze of boulders, but the entrance struck me as broader, easier, less intimidating. Probably just senelity.


Took off 8/2. Definitely a recent flash flood putting some extra debris into the top left of the entrance pool. I didn't think the rest of the rapid was all that different though, and bet it's back to normal after next year's high water.


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## wyosam

asleep.at.the.oars said:


> Took off 8/2. Definitely a recent flash flood putting some extra debris into the top left of the entrance pool. I didn't think the rest of the rapid was all that different though, and bet it's back to normal after next year's high water.


Coal flashed on 7/15, we were camped at Nefertitti on our last night night and watched the debris flow by all evening. It was about a 1000cfs bump on the GR gauge- would have been cool to see it at the outlet.


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## unlucky

We launched the same day as mooreso. First night was at Jack Creek 1. Found this possible print in the boat about 6:00 in the morning. I was the first one up and the cobble at Jack Creek is not great for looking for other prints...


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## Snakerivershadow

*Beta on Deso, please*

We are launching the Aug 16 on Deso. Could I get any recent Beta on the river, bears, bugs and the water at Rock Creek, Chandler canyon, and McPhersons?

Thank you


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## Beeks

Just got off on Thursday. Definitely a low water float, we took seven full days. Saw two bears, didn't get harassed by any, but tracks at every camp. Bugs weren't bad at all, a few mosquitoes early on and biting flies further down, but not enough for bug juice most of the time. All of the side canyons showed evidence of recent flow, and seems like that's where the bugs congregated around the remaining standing water. Only place we looked for water was Rock Creek, it was silty due to recent rains but good enough for our purposes. A little wind, a little rain, but a great trip.


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## liquidphoto

Sasquatch was on my rig taking PBR's and throwing them to a bear. Jack Links where gone too?


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## trevko

We got off a week ago (8/11). Very few bugs, no bears (on a trip with 5 wildlife biologists -3 from AK!) and winds pushing us downriver. Trip down into Sand Wash was sporty due to a heavy monsoon over the area was all.


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## CBrown

We were down first week of August. We saw 3 bears walking along the river and prints here and there but none in our camps. We got hammered by hail and rain down there. Be prepared! No bugs. Awesome trip other than the pinball sized hail.


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## 6FEETandRISING

*Recent Beta*

Launching Sept. 18. Just looking for any recent Beta on the road conditions into Sand Wash. Sounds like there have been some recent flash flood activity in a majority of the side canyons. With all this monsoon moisture that utah has been receiving im curious as to how the roads are. Anyone been down in the last week?


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## Beardance42

mooreso said:


> Is it legal to remove things like this from public land?


I had to cancel my permit this year due to logistics, so haven't been out there for a few years now. But as far as I know, this is definitely NOT legal.


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## Osprey

In Utah, in Feb and march you need a permit to gather sheds, any other time of the year it's legal. However, antlers still attached to a skull as he described may not be picked up. This could be a sign of poaching.


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## restrac2000

That is the state law, but Deso has a regulation against collection of antler sheds:

_*"f. Do not remove, damage or destroy archaeological, historical, ecological resources, including antlers, or cause unnecessary or undue damage to the natural and cultural resources of the public lands."*_

Not sure how that contradiction works out in the long run. The Ranger's notes on the stipulations states that 

*"Most of Desolation Canyon is protected as a National Historic Landmark, designated in 1969. The rules for collecting are more controlled than other areas of public land. Please leave all the above listed items you find in place so that others may also enjoy the experience of discovery."*

I would recommend against collection of antler sheds in Deso unless you have express permission from the BLM to do so. That said, we see people breaking this rule all of the time during our multiple trips in there each year. When we get the chance we give people a heads up but its not always possible nor are all people the type I feel safe educating. 

For most of the state its okay according to the previous comments. Its a very common activity in the mountains. Some collect for personal use and others collect to sell at regional hubs, which are used largely for furniture as I understand it. I do know the largest of racks are often molded and reproduced.

Phillip


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## screamingeagle

6FEETandRISING said:


> Launching Sept. 18. Just looking for any recent Beta on the road conditions into Sand Wash. Sounds like there have been some recent flash flood activity in a majority of the side canyons. With all this monsoon moisture that utah has been receiving im curious as to how the roads are. Anyone been down in the last week?



This was a recent thread from last week.
http://www.mountainbuzz.com/forums/...r-camp-trashed-tent-wreckage-found-55199.html


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## lmyers

Update:

Just returned last night. There were heavy rains Monday/Tuesday in the entire region, but it did not really affect the Sand Wash road. However the maze of gas and oil roads in the shale up top were pretty terrible. Soupy with massive ruts from the 18 wheelers and a couple running draws to cross. We did manage to get a Tacoma and Forrester in, and River Runners got them out without issue.

Flows bumped up around 900 CFS while we were there and the river ran extremely red and muddy. There were signs that nearly every canyon and draw had run this season, some of them with this most reason storm. Foot prints had washed clean a couple days before, but we did not see a single sign of bears the entire trip other than some old dried up scat when hiking Rock Creek.

Kayak self support, 6 paddlers, 6 days. Camped at Rock House, Flat Canyon, below Chandler Falls, Range Creek 2 (only one with any bugs) and Rattlesnake. Only saw 2 other trips, both from Colorado. Fantastic trip through a beautiful canyon.


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## 6FEETandRISING

*road conditions*



lmyers said:


> Just returned last night. There were heavy rains Monday/Tuesday in the entire region, but it did not really affect the Sand Wash road. However the maze of gas and oil roads in the shale up top were pretty terrible. Soupy with massive ruts from the 18 wheelers and a couple running draws to cross. We did manage to get a Tacoma and Forrester in, and River Runners got them out without issue.


Sounds reasonable, I'm headed in on wednesday night, hoping to get in front of the coming storm for the drive into sand wash. One question.... Is there signage all the way into the sand wash BLM boat ramp? The dirt road section into sand wash looks like a maze that could pose some problems if you make a wrong turn along the way.


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## Phil U.

6FEETandRISING said:


> Sounds reasonable, I'm headed in on wednesday night, hoping to get in front of the coming storm for the drive into sand wash. One question.... Is there signage all the way into the sand wash BLM boat ramp? The dirt road section into sand wash looks like a maze that could pose some problems if you make a wrong turn along the way.


There is good signage. I drove the Forester in that Logan referred to. Very borderline. My first time in there. I managed to avoid bottoming out but had to run some very creative lines. We had water in the wash with us. Tried to come in on the Nine Mile Canyon road first and got turned back by some serious washouts. Should have been driving my Toyota truck. Rangers said Sand Wash runs 2 or 3 times a year, typically. Its run a dozen times this year. Wonderful trip.


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## restrac2000

6FEETandRISING said:


> Sounds reasonable, I'm headed in on wednesday night, hoping to get in front of the coming storm for the drive into sand wash. One question.... Is there signage all the way into the sand wash BLM boat ramp? The dirt road section into sand wash looks like a maze that could pose some problems if you make a wrong turn along the way.


Signage changes regularly due to road damage but was there at major intersections in June for us. 

Definitely keep an eye on that storm. It looks likes its likely to do more damage in the southern part of the state but that road in is the last place I would want to be if it chooses to sit over that region. There is a section that is pretty much in the wash for a couple miles that could be dangerous if the clouds are over the region and open up. I worked that area for 2 years and those roads on the plateau also tend to quagmire something nasty with rain.

That said, I love Deso with storms. Its such a dynamic environment.

We are a month out from our 2nd launch of the year and can't wait. 

Phillip


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## Phil U.

restrac2000 said:


> Signage changes regularly due to road damage but was there at major intersections in June for us.
> 
> Definitely keep an eye on that storm. It looks likes its likely to do more damage in the southern part of the state but that road in is the last place I would want to be if it chooses to sit over that region. There is a section that is pretty much in the wash for a couple miles that could be dangerous if the clouds are over the region and open up. I worked that area for 2 years and those roads on the plateau also tend to quagmire something nasty with rain.
> 
> That said, I love Deso with storms. Its such a dynamic environment.
> 
> We are a month out from our 2nd launch of the year and can't wait.
> 
> Phillip


Yup. That "road" was way more than I realized we were getting into. And the trip qualified as another "best trip ever".


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## restrac2000

Phil U. said:


> Yup. That "road" was way more than I realized we were getting into. And the trip qualified as another "best trip ever".


Yeah, that road is one of the reasons we own a truck and finally upgraded to expensive LT-rated tires instead of the P-rated ones we had on it. Utah roads are their own breed of crazy sometimes. If/when you return and can take the route through Nine Mile (talk about needing good weather) its worth the extra drive to see those world class rock art panels. Spent several years walking that territory and we always found rock art, manos and mattes, and lithic scatter. 

Phillip


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## Phil U.

restrac2000 said:


> Yeah, that road is one of the reasons we own a truck and finally upgraded to expensive LT-rated tires instead of the P-rated ones we had on it. Utah roads are their own breed of crazy sometimes. If/when you return and can take the route through Nine Mile (talk about needing good weather) its worth the extra drive to see those world class rock art panels. Spent several years walking that territory and we always found rock art, manos and mattes, and lithic scatter.
> 
> Phillip


Talked to a ranger and a woman in the Price BLM office the morning we headed in to Nine Mile and were told we would be fine if we drove "carefully". Then the rains returned and we were more worried about getting through than checking out the rock art. Dang! We drove out the Gates Canyon road per advice from some energy boyze after getting turned back by washouts. That road had us crossing and recrossing the wash while it was running close to a foot deep. It was stressful. Loved seeing rain in the desert but felt like we were on an unfamiliar edge. Can't wait to get back...


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## lmyers

Worth noting that we came in from Myton and Phil from Green River. Nothing but a trickle in Sand Wash when we came down, but it took nearly 2 hours from the turnoff 40 until we arrived. Weather was wonderful the rest of the trip. Might try and post a couple photos if I get the chance.


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## mikesee

Far from the only way to do it, but one way to avoid the bad road(s) in is detailed here:

Big Wheel Building: Dave's delight.

Cheers,

MC


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## restrac2000

Anybody been down in the last week or so? Looking for an update on bears as we launch in a little more than a week. 

Can't wait to see Deso in October for the first time.

Phillip


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## DoubleYouEss

Just got off yesterday, saw zero bears over the 7 days


Sent from my iPhone using Mountain Buzz


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## restrac2000

DoubleYouEss said:


> Just got off yesterday, saw zero bears over the 7 days
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Mountain Buzz


Thanks for the update. Hope you had a great trip.

Went ahead and bought a canister of Counter Assault and a Fog Horn. Hope to never use them but we do this stretch enough and the bear encounters seem to be getting more common each year. A cheap investment to keep us and the animals safe(r) if the need arises.

You had great levels for autumn with the spike we saw from the rains a few weeks ago.

Phillip


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