# E-Bike as to shuttle back



## peterk1234 (Feb 27, 2021)

Is anyone using one or do you folks think that it is too slow as a form of transportation? Thx Pete


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

People use regular bikes...so...why not?!

Saw an electric motorcycle this weekend as a shuttle. Was impressed.


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## atg200 (Apr 24, 2007)

I got a mountain ebike specifically to shuttle trips in the middle of nowhere that don't have a shuttle service like the san rafael river or muddy creek in utah. i figure it'll pay for itself pretty quick not driving two cars. they are great fun to ride.


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## peterk1234 (Feb 27, 2021)

atg200 said:


> I got a mountain ebike specifically to shuttle trips in the middle of nowhere that don't have a shuttle service like the san rafael river or muddy creek in utah. i figure it'll pay for itself pretty quick not driving two cars. they are great fun to ride.



What did you get? The prices for them are all over the place it seems. From $1500 to $5000. Of course, the same can be said for mountain and road bikes


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## Osprey (May 26, 2006)

I put one of those gas motor conversion kits on a bike, the little 80 cc kits or whatever they are. I mean, light and cheap, easy to transport, easy to lock up at the put in or take out. But yeah, kinda slow, takes awhile, if you aren't a biker can kind of beat you up on rough roads, a bit nerve wracking on some two lanes. Overall worked pretty well but the older I get now I'm thinking more about a motorcycle mount for the trailer and going that way. I think an ebike would be much nicer to use than the gas, but the gas kits are only like $150 and I picked up an old mountain bike on craigslist to put it on.


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## atg200 (Apr 24, 2007)

Hell, you can spend 15,000 on one. I got a Specialized Turbo Levo. They are expensive, but it is an amazing bike and a joy to ride. I train by sitting at a computer all day and then dinking beer at night, and i can smoke my 6% body fat friends on conventional mountain bikes. The shuttle for Muddy Creek goes over a big sandy hill so I really wanted the mountain bike capabilities. The speed will make long bike commutes to work fun once that is a thing again.


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## Rightoarleft (Feb 5, 2021)

atg200 said:


> I got a mountain ebike specifically to shuttle trips in the middle of nowhere that don't have a shuttle service like the san rafael river or muddy creek in utah. i figure it'll pay for itself pretty quick not driving two cars. they are great fun to ride.


I got involved in a discussion over the cost benefits of cycling versus driving a small sedan. It quickly became clear that on a cost per mile basis, the only way a bicycle is cheaper is it forces you to travel less miles. The calculations assumed a cyclist can get 30 miles per burrito and the sedan gets 30 mpg. Sedan is cheaper. Then I compared purchase price to lifetime miles. Sedan wins. Then I contrasted maintenance costs. Just in tires alone, a bicycle is more expensive per mile than the maintenance costs of a typical sedan.

There are many good reasons to ride a bike, but unless you have to pay for parking or high insurance, saving money isn't one of them. And that concludes today's marginally interesting and totally irrelevant fun facts.


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## Electric-Mayhem (Jan 19, 2004)

Rightoarleft said:


> I got involved in a discussion over the cost benefits of cycling versus driving a small sedan. It quickly became clear that on a cost per mile basis, the only way a bicycle is cheaper is it forces you to travel less miles. The calculations assumed a cyclist can get 30 miles per burrito and the sedan gets 30 mpg. Sedan is cheaper. Then I compared purchase price to lifetime miles. Sedan wins. Then I contrasted maintenance costs. Just in tires alone, a bicycle is more expensive per mile than the maintenance costs of a typical sedan.
> 
> There are many good reasons to ride a bike, but unless you have to pay for parking or high insurance, saving money isn't one of them. And that concludes today's marginally interesting and totally irrelevant fun facts.


You can't hang your sedan on the back of your truck though. All of those calculations increase if you are towing a vehicle or having to drive two vehicles places.

Definitely tempted to get a small lightweight dual sport motorbike or one of these ebikes. Small 250cc motorcycles aren't too hard to find cheap and should be allright for most sub 50 mile solo shuttles.


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## Rightoarleft (Feb 5, 2021)

Electric-Mayhem said:


> You can't hang your sedan on the back of your truck though. All of those calculations increase if you are towing a vehicle or having to drive two vehicles places.
> 
> Definitely tempted to get a small lightweight dual sport motorbike or one of these ebikes. Small 250cc motorcycles aren't too hard to find cheap and should be allright for most sub 50 mile solo shuttles.


In Oregon, any vehicle operated outside of designated OHV areas must be street legal, registered and insured. Needless to say, you don't see many dirt bikes or ATVs around here. It's pretty much the opposite of Idaho and Montana. 

I guess that's okay because I can't think of a shuttle I would use a motorbike anyhow. Too long, too fast, too sketchy to leave behind. Besides, shuttles give the lookyloos something to do besides stand around and watch you swear over the cooler straps coiled up in your sun hat... that you left sitting on the workbench back home.


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## atg200 (Apr 24, 2007)

Rightoarleft said:


> I got involved in a discussion over the cost benefits of cycling versus driving a small sedan. It quickly became clear that on a cost per mile basis, the only way a bicycle is cheaper is it forces you to travel less miles. The calculations assumed a cyclist can get 30 miles per burrito and the sedan gets 30 mpg. Sedan is cheaper. Then I compared purchase price to lifetime miles. Sedan wins. Then I contrasted maintenance costs. Just in tires alone, a bicycle is more expensive per mile than the maintenance costs of a typical sedan.
> 
> There are many good reasons to ride a bike, but unless you have to pay for parking or high insurance, saving money isn't one of them. And that concludes today's marginally interesting and totally irrelevant fun facts.


This isn't anything like my use case though. These are remote 4WD roads, and a small group can take 1 jeep instead of 2. Each trip saves $100 in gas alone.

The other issue with your example is comparing the cost per mile. Part of the reason to ride a bike is to cut down on emissions, so burritos are out.


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## mikesee (Aug 4, 2012)

atg200 said:


> i can smoke my 6% body fat friends on conventional mountain bikes.


Wow -- crazy. It's almost like you have a motor.


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## Rightoarleft (Feb 5, 2021)

atg200 said:


> This isn't anything like my use case though. These are remote 4WD roads, and a small group can take 1 jeep instead of 2. Each trip saves $100 in gas alone.
> 
> The other issue with your example is comparing the cost per mile. Part of the reason to ride a bike is to cut down on emissions, so burritos are out.


Yeah I wasn't trying to drive a point. I just find it interesting when "common sense" falls in the face of math. I love mountain biking and it makes me wish I had a place for it in my shuttles, but I don't. But if I did, I wouldn't eat burritos either (wink).


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## pmillerblaster (Jan 3, 2012)

I have a Juiced Bikes Camp Scrambler. It has fat tires that soak up bumps on rough roads no problem. I put on the off road kit so the bike will hit 25-26 mph on flat but I am also a bit large at 220lbs. If I was 175 the bike might get close to 30. It works awesome and is only about 50 lbs and most of that weight is in the battery. I went with a bike that has a removable battery because almost all of the cost is in the battery, to buy a second battery for my bike it would be 1,100$ and I paid 1,500 for the bike. So when I lock it up I remove the battery, toss it in a dry bag, and bring it with me on the water.

I used a smaller dirtbike a few times in the past but at that time I didn't have space on my trailer for the bike so I put the bike into my van. Let's say having a carburated gas bike in my van while driving was not ideal. Smells like crap. I also did a few floats with the dirtbike and put the bike into my raft (solo float) because it was small enough to lay it down across my front bench. But that bike was about 160lbs and when it was laying flat in the raft the carb leaked gas onto the floor of the boat. Again not great. So electric is the way.

I researched electric bikes a lot before buying the Camp Scrambler. I wanted it only for shuttle and some light around town stuff and I wanted more of the old school moped/scooter look instead of a traditional bike. I also learned that pedal-assist is an absolute must! I was looking at a Super 73 Z1 but it has no pedal assist so you either ride it like a normal bike or use the throttle. The reason the pedal assist is so key is because of the one drawback of the electric bikes. They lose power going up steep hills big time, or at least the Camp Scrambler does. I used that bike to shuttle the Pumphouse to Radium section on the Colorado and it worked great but that hill coming out of Radium was a bear. I was probably down to 10mph going up that and maybe even slower with only throttle. Being able to pedal to help push the bike alone on a steep hill is key. If your shuttle is mostly flat the electric bikes would be fantastic!

The last comment is on the range. The Camp Scrambler gets about 20-25 miles under normal conditions. I also found that when going up steep hills you suck power for sure. I bet I could get two shuttles on the Pumphouse to Radium section with one battery. It sucks power going up that hill but uses no power coming down the hill. I have a van with a power system so I am going to look for an adaptor to be able to plug in my battery on extended trips where I might be camping and doing multiple floats on the same section. But getting a second battery is always an option but an expensive one.


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## Jim Bob (May 19, 2020)

I have a buddy running shuttle on the Snake on a one wheel ( all bike path).


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## jaffy (Feb 4, 2004)

Rightoarleft said:


> Yeah I wasn't trying to drive a point. I just find it interesting when "common sense" falls in the face of math. I love mountain biking and it makes me wish I had a place for it in my shuttles, but I don't. But if I did, I wouldn't eat burritos either (wink).


I'd like to see the math. Your calculations sound kind of half-assed. Not trying to be offensive - maybe "back of the envelope" would be a better way to phrase it?  I mostly commute around town on my bike, and just what I save in gas would buy me a new bike every other year, and my bike maintenance costs are easily less than $50/year. That's basically one oil change. Your food consumption isn't going to go up appreciably either biking vs sitting in a car. It's not like biking down a road takes a lot of energy.

Regardless, though, convenience is what primarily drives my shuttle decisions, not economics.


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## Rich (Sep 14, 2006)

Pl


Jim Bob said:


> I have a buddy running shuttle on the Snake on a one wheel ( all bike path).


What section of the Snake would that be? TIA


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## Jim Bob (May 19, 2020)

Wilson to S. Park in Wyoming.


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## Rightoarleft (Feb 5, 2021)

jaffy said:


> I'd like to see the math. Your calculations sound kind of half-assed.


Oh it's totally half assed. Expenses cover a wide range and that makes it hard to pin down. So even if it is unlikely, nobody can say it's impossible. 

Tires for my MTB are $100 per set. A cheap set of tires for a small car is $320. I can get 60k miles on the car tires, and about 2k on the bike tires. Tire cost for the car is half a cent per mile. For the bike is 5 cents per mile. That's an order of magnitude more expensive. The math may be sloppy, but it is compelling.


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