# push my luck



## l-dot (Dec 20, 2003)

I can't really help, but I do recall some posts a few years ago from a paraplegic working in his role. For some reason I recall him saying he was a T2 paraplegic. Maybe he is still a buzzard and will chime in.


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## COUNT (Jul 5, 2005)

I paddled with a guy a few years ago who was a parapelegic. He had no use of his legs below the knee but could still use his hips and thighs (don't know if there's a term for this or not). He was a kickass playboater so know that it can be done. He was very careful river running simply because of his limited ability to help himself in certain situations. He would paddle class III and would do the occassional IV with a solid crew that he knew well. Thought I heard about a similar guy who paddled class V but that may just be a myth. I would say go for it but make sure you take the time to develop the necessary skills and not get in over your head. There's that River Runners organization for wounded vets, too, they may have some good tips.

COUNT


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## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

*Lesson?*

Have you checked with any local shops to see what they would do for a lessons on rolling? That might jump start you and perhaps open up a social network to go boating with. You might also think about talking to some commercial groups about tagging along in your own boat on some of your first river trips. The benefit with that is the professional rescue experience and "rent a friend" aspect. I recently did this sort of a thing to learn to run the Lochsa, found a great crew of commercials, had a blast, and now I'm ALMOST comfortable with the river. Sure, commercial trips aren't ideal, but if you want to get "into" boating and don't have your own connections set up, they can be a great way to break in.

Have fun in your quest for whitewater!


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## BKC (Apr 18, 2004)

*River Runners*

I have a friend in St. Louis that works with the River Runners organization. Sounds like a great organization with chapters across the US. Here is one site I found: http://www.teamriverrunner.org/welcome.php

If you don't have much luck there, e-mail me and I'll call my friend for you: [email protected]

I also read somewhere about someone in the PNW area who is doing exactly what you are interested in. The PDX yahoo group might be a resource as well.


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## Ture (Apr 12, 2004)

I saw a parapalegic kayaker at the takeout for Westwater: Westwater

I couldn't tell until he got out of his kayak and dragged himself up the boat ramp using his arms.

I'd say go for it. Start in a pool with a certified kayak instructor and see if you can get a roll working. When you get on moving water make sure you have an experienced kayaker with you.


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## J (Nov 6, 2003)

l-dot said:


> I can't really help, but I do recall some posts a few years ago from a paraplegic working in his role. For some reason I recall him saying he was a T2 paraplegic. Maybe he is still a buzzard and will chime in.


I remember this too, but the buzz search is turning up nothing. 

Admins????


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## schubutt (May 24, 2007)

*Kudos*

While I really can't help too much with advice, I'd like to say I really applaud your attitude. It sounds like you have a good head on your shoulders for not (pardon the pun) diving right in, and I applaud not letting a handicap hold you back.

While whitewater is a blast, have you looked into Sea Kayaks as they're a lot of fun as well? It may be a good place to start to learn general boat skills, although not all of them would apply to whitewater. The other thing I would try is a roll class in a pool, or even better on a lake. It's a safe enviornment (for anyone) to learn some of the basics. Not knowing you well or how much functionality you have, there may be issues with coming up with a good roll. Paddling on a lake will also let you get the feel of paddling a whitewater kayak, which is quite different than a raft. You may find after a roll session, you don't like being upside down with water clogging your ears and the like.


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## J (Nov 6, 2003)

Also, if you are OK swimming, don't let a lack of roll stop you. I spent my entire first summer swimming pretty much every time I went upside down and still had a blast. Wouldn't want to be in any serious whitewater swimming, but as a beginner its kind of a rite of passage.


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## schubutt (May 24, 2007)

*J's absolutely right*

We all swim a lot. Ok, I swim probably more than most, since I still suck.

Absolutely, you're not going to have a good roll for probably your whole first season, but being able to swim well is essential.


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## Randaddy (Jun 8, 2007)

Would Tonka want to consider some leg flotation? When most of us swim we have to be a little bit conscious to keep our feet up...

Something to think about. 

Tonka, you might want to talk to the Breckenridge Outdoor Education Center or the group at Idaho State (C.W. Hoggs?). There are also lots of other resources for disabled outdoor athletes. I know a girl with a prosthetic leg that TEARS IT UP on the slopes. 

Side note: This isn't just impressive that someone with seriously challenged mobility is trying to get out there, it's depressing to think about all of the able bodied, yet lazy pieces of garbage out there that drive to the mailbox every day....


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## caspermike (Mar 9, 2007)

Randaddy said:


> Side note: This isn't just impressive that someone with seriously challenged mobility is trying to get out there, it's depressing to think about all of the able bodied, yet lazy pieces of garbage out there that drive to the mailbox every day....


Im getting back on the short board again..... very impressive to say the least.


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## GoodTimes (Mar 9, 2006)

I would recommend getting in a ducky. I paddled with a parapelegic last weekend and he had outfitted his to accommodate his exact needs (back support, etc..). It was at the First Descents benefit in the Pueblo Play Park. Nice thing about duckies is you can still paddle just about any class III, some IV, they're MUCH more forgiving....AND you can still have about the same experience as a hard boat.


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## J (Nov 6, 2003)

GoodTimes said:


> I would recommend getting in a ducky. ...


Now that is a great idea, or at least one to keep in your back pocket if the roll thing becomes an issue.

I bet the First Decents folks would be a good place to get some info as well. website: http://www.firstdescents.org/cms/

Please keep us updated on your journey into whitewater. very, very cool.


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## tonkatruck (Jul 7, 2008)

man thanks foreverbodys input, it sounds like if i have any problems you guys got my best interest inmind thanks alot, tonk


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## oliverdeshler (May 8, 2008)

*Go for it!*

I personally know a parapalegic who is a class V paddler. His name is Greg Mallory and he lives in Portland. While living out there I paddled the Little White Salmon with him and Canyon Creek at high water - both class V. He learned how to kayak and run class V having never been able to scout. He just relied on his friends to give him good descriptions. His friends help him portage (in his kayak) and this can involve ropes in many situations. Recently Greg went to Burma and ran some hard rivers over there also. If you have the desire and some good friends you can do a lot in a kayak. Just take it really slow (swimming isn't as much of an option for you) and make sure you go with some trusted friends. I'm truly amazed at what Greg has done and I'm sure he would tell you to go for it!


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## Yonder_River (Feb 6, 2004)

I've seen a parapalegic boat the Canyon Creek of the Lewis up here which is a class IV/V steep creek. I've also heard he has done the Green Truss (minus BB and BZ) which is also the same class. I believe he lives in the Portland area. Fucking ballsy. Keep it up and you might be in that league someday.


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## Kimy (Jul 1, 2005)

I can try and hook you up with Team River Runner folks in Seattle. (PM me with your address) 
TRR really knows a lot about teaching paras and amputees to kayak...but ummmm, web site that was recommended above needs a bit of work. I am really involved with the San Diego TRR group and I know they are starting a group in Seattle. It is aimed at teaching Iraq , Afganistan vets to kayak, but they will know of folks in the area who are familiar with adaptive paddling. The ACA also has a class for teaching adaptive paddling, you might look for an instructor. ALso the Idaho version of the Buzz (http://www.kayakidaho.com/) would also be a good place to look for folks. 
AND if you are ever down here in San DIego, the guy who runs Infinity Wave Skis take paras out all the time. There are some incredible para paddlers surfing every weekend here in SoCal. Very cool article here
http://www.paddlermagazine.com/issues/2004_5/article_254.shtml
One big tip in learning how to roll is to get your boat outfitting right to help you out. 
AND one last resource is a program for paras and so forth at Loma Linda UNiversity. I can hook you up there too. 

kj


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## clearh2o (Jan 29, 2008)

*Don't let anyone tell you that you can't paddle.*



tonkatruck said:


> so i'm a parapelegic and i need to kayak...
> i don't have a death wish but i don't know my limits either, so
> does any one out there have thoughts on my situation?
> recently i bought a 13ft raft and i've been out a dozon time the problem i'm having is i'm not close enough with the water and a raft no matter the size seems tankish, so blaah this is where i am. help........:twisted:


I have a friend that is a Quad and he paddles. There is certain levels but he has some function and can not roll. When I paddle with him if he does flip I do the hand of god and roll him back up. There is also a guy in Oregon that is a parapelegic and he runs class 5. He does roll and is more solid than most paddlers I see on the river. I will try to get you some contact information on these outstanding individuals. Keep it up. I am in winter park for a couple of weeks. If your near the area and want a roll lesson I would be happy to work with you.

Jason

541-490-7333


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## Para James (Jul 21, 2008)

*T12 para/ playboater/whitewater instructor*



tonkatruck said:


> so i'm a parapelegic and i need to kayak...
> i don't have a death wish but i don't know my limits either, so
> does any one out there have thoughts on my situation?
> recently i bought a 13ft raft and i've been out a dozon time the problem i'm having is i'm not close enough with the water and a raft no matter the size seems tankish, so blaah this is where i am. help........:twisted:


Hey, My name is James Smith and I'm a para. T12 to be exact. I'm also an ACA instructor now, as well as swift water rescue certified. I usually run the ark a few times a year but the southeast is getting more popular with me lately. 
I think if want to kayak you can, as long as your realistic with your goals and safety. It takes a bit more planning and support, but everyone should use a bit of this on the river. (not just paras) I've taught for the guys from team river runners and the guys from Arkansas canoe club. If I can help you get into whitewater with a kayak feel free to ask anything you have a question about. 
I think the first things I should ask you is about your injury level and what kind of boating you want to do. Lower level gives you more boat control, but as long as you have the desire and will, you can get into a kayak. As far as the type of boating you want to do you have to start out like everyone else and get some self rescue skills first. Wet exit, bow rescue, then your roll. I'm not hard on the order but the wet exit is most important. Anyways I'd love to work with you. I've worked with paras and amputees on everything from the roll to cartwheeling. Most important when your starting out is getting your outfitting right. You want to have the most efficient transfer of movement from your body to the boat. I can go into as much detail as you want. 

Email me 

[email protected]


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## qman (Apr 15, 2013)

great to hear about other paraplegics getting out there. I had a paragliding accident 5 years ago and broke my back. I was previously a grade 4 paddler in australia and have recently been on a journey to relearn to roll and kayak. 
Over the last couple of years i have paddled a couple of times a year on easy grade 2 ish water but pretty irregular. Since christmas i have been on a mission to try and regain my roll and paddle some more interesting ww. The roll has been a real struggle for me being much harder to regain than i thought. i have had some success but am far from having a useful combat roll. Here is some video of me recent successes. Paraplegic kayak eskimo rolling - YouTube 

I would love to say that i have been able to repeat this and prgress it but not yet. still a work in progress.


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## mrkyak (Jul 11, 2005)

Any kind of bracing or special arrangements you may need for the inside of your kayak I will fabricate for you out of aluminum, foam, etc. Just send me the specs. No charge for labor, materials or shipping. 
I'm a ACA whitewater instructor, been boating for 20 years and will do what I can to help you get on the water.


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## caspermike (Mar 9, 2007)

Dude you got skill don't give up you almost got it keep that head down brother! Nice eddies too btw the free pinky is key to a good stroke you got it!


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## paulk (Apr 24, 2006)

This reminds me of that post a few weeks ago. I wonder if you could get ahold of this guy and see if he has any recommendations for altered techniques that help him. 'Walk on Water': Paraplegic discovers kayaking after skiing accident | GrindTV.com

*edit* Woops this is posted down the home page right now. Still worth a shot. I am sure he knows more about what you need to do than anyone else.


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## qman (Apr 15, 2013)

thanks, especially mrkyak for his kind offer. 

I am paddling a really standard burn and with the correct fitout and the footrest under pressure i stay in ok. i little to OK maybe if you know what i mean. wet exits arent quite as easy as i would like. 
It seems to be a fine line between staying in and getting out. I have resisted the suicide strap as a last resort. 

i have been in touch with greg mallory which was helpfully he uses a foam block to keep his legs under the braces and when removed falls straight out. so i might look at that. 

after the successes in the video i have had a couple of sessions but havent been able to repeat it 100% so the journey continues. 

i definetly need to become more flexible. so will work on that over the winter.


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## brandob9 (Jun 13, 2010)

Gman - You might also want to pick Greg's brain about the ways that he has people get him in at the putin, portaged and out. He has a very specific set up in mind for each spot and a great degree of trust in those helping him. 

As example, I recall him being lowered to the Green Truss putin in his boat. It's a solid 100' cliff. I've also watched him, still in the boat, being pulled out of Canyon Creek by a rope attached to a car that slowly backed up.


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## qman (Apr 15, 2013)

yeah logistics can be a tough one but there are lots of rivers to paddle with relatively easy access put ins and take outs. usually 2 guys dragging is enough to sort it out. but i suppose as i get more adventurous that will become more of an issue. having a strong roll is really my focus as it removes a lot of potential problems and risk.


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## LSB (Mar 23, 2004)

Hey Tonka. I'm a Special Ed teacher so I have some experience with people with disabilities. I'm also on the board of a new adaptive rec. nonprofit in Missoula. We are setting up a rafting program and could use a safety boater when your ready. In the mean time I'd be happy to paddle with you to get you started. We're about an hour and a half apart on I90. If you're interested send me a PM.


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