# Need some help! Self Bailing vs. non-Self Bailing



## cheublein (Apr 7, 2009)

Hello Everyone!

This might seem like a pretty stupid question, but I need to get it answered. I am new to this and am wondering what the real difference is between these two types of vessels. Obviously the self bailing has eyelets in the bottom that release the water and the non-self bailing does not. 
I have seen a number of Hyside and NRS boats for very good prices, but they are the non-self bailing type. I just wonder what the downside to a non-self bailing boat is.
I plan on using my boat for fishing(The main reason!) and at the very most some minor day trips, maybe II-III with the family, at least until I get some experience under my belt. 
So, do I run the risk of sinking my boat or do I need to have a pump available to bail the water out if I go with a non-self bailing?

Thank you very much for the help

Chris


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## TakemetotheRiver (Oct 4, 2007)

I have friends who swear by bucket boats- they say they stay upright better, which may be true. The boat is not going to sink when it fills with water, it's just going to be a lot harder to move. They may stay upright, but the chance of getting stuck on a rock is greater because they are so heavy when filled with water.


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## WhiteLightning (Apr 21, 2004)

Self bailing is better. More time fishing, less time bailing.


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## Riparian (Feb 7, 2009)

To me, bailing bucket boats is a giant distraction.


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## the_dude (May 31, 2006)

bailing sucks. get a self-bailer. you'll thank yourself, especially if you're in a rainstorm.


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## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

If you're going to run such mellow water, you're unlikely to have to do much bailing. For your use, if the cost is a major factor, a bucket boat may be just fine. You can get little bilge pumps made for canoes and modify it so you just have to pump and suck the majority of the water out. But, your feet will almost always be wet.


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## UserName (Sep 7, 2007)

Picture sitting on a folding lawn chair, and someone throws 25-50+ gallons of cold water at you. Now picture sitting in a bathtub and someone throws 25-50+ gallons of cold water at you. Now picture both again with repetition.


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## Mr Beaver (Mar 8, 2009)

a bucket boat in continuous rapids is a huge bummer. It cuts down on my merrymaking/drinking and therefore I find it unacceptable.

But in Class II, on a warm summer day, it wouldn't be a big deal.

If you are taking the family, consider if you wife/kids will be ok with wet feet for 4-8 hours.


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## Andy H. (Oct 13, 2003)

> If you are taking the family, consider if you wife/kids will be ok with wet feet for 4-8 hours.


No matter what kind of water you're in, you'll probably have wet feet for most of the time you're on the river in a raft, whether its a bucket boat or self-bailer. If you're in Class II whitewater, you can probably run a bucket boat (non-self-bailer) and not have any trouble other than the occasional splash or two into the boat, which are then easily (mostly, but not completely) bailed out. If you're running Class III whitewater, you'll be getting a few bucketfulls of water into the boat on a regular basis. If its your first boat, there's no need to throw down a hefty chunk of your disposable income on a SB if you're just going to be fishing Class II water and taking the family on float trips.

The cost difference between a SB and a bucket boat will probably be about $750 - $1000 which will easily cover the cost of neoprene booties & socks for the family.

Here's a good deal for an Avon (which holds value better than any other brand) raft in the swap that you could buy, use and later sell the rubber for $500 easily and keep the frame and gear to use if/when you decide to upgrade to a SB:
http://www.mountainbuzz.com/swap/showproduct.php?product=12071&cat=3

That's basically $1200+ worth of used gear and the raft tossed in for $300. I don't think the babe in black comes with it though...

Or there's this SB starter package - though at this price it should be inspected very carefully before buying:

http://www.mountainbuzz.com/swap/showproduct.php?product=11923&cat=3

Good luck finding the right boat!

-AH


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## cheublein (Apr 7, 2009)

Thank you everyone for the reponse. Thank you AH for throwing some links out there. The reason I thought that I would ask this is because I saw some Hyside non-SB boats on Craigslist for $850. From the pics they look like they are in good shape.

I also did find this one.

http://www.mountainbuzz.com/swap/showproduct.php?product=11901&cat=3

Are Rikens decent boats or just a good entry level boat?

Also, can you guys give me some pointers on what to look for when I look at these boats. I have read that I should have the boat filled and take a spray bottle with soapy water, but have not really had any other input.

Thanx
Chris


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## Mr Beaver (Mar 8, 2009)

Andy H. said:


> No matter what kind of water you're in, you'll probably have wet feet for most of the time you're on the river in a raft, whether its a bucket boat or self-bailer. If you're in Class II whitewater, you can probably run a bucket boat (non-self-bailer) and not have any trouble other than the occasional splash or two into the boat, which are then easily (mostly, but not completely) bailed out. If you're running Class III whitewater, you'll be getting a few bucketfulls of water into the boat on a regular basis. If its your first boat, there's no need to throw down a hefty chunk of your disposable income on a SB if you're just going to be fishing Class II water and taking the family on float trips.
> 
> The cost difference between a SB and a bucket boat will probably be about $750 - $1000 which will easily cover the cost of neoprene booties & socks for the family.
> 
> ...


There is a difference between "wet" feet and "in" water. But thank you for clarifing. 

I have rafted in bucket boats and on longer runs with you feet actually submerged, is big difference than just the occasional splashing (from the rapids) I get in my Aire SB. Not a big deal in July, but it is in May at least in Oregon.


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## FatmanZ (Sep 15, 2004)

A couple suggestions:

1. Call NRS and ask them the pros/cons of the SB and non-SB, pros/cons of buying used vs. new, what to look for in a used raft, why size matters, etc: 877.677.4327 

2. Call AIRE and ask them the same questions: 800-247-3432

Both companies have excellent customer service and can help answer your questions. They each sell and use both types of rafts for fishing and more. 

3. Size of the raft is also important. For the primary use of fishing you may not want a 15' boat, you might want something smaller and more manageable, allowing you to catch smaller eddies and 'drift'. 

4. Condition of the Used Rafts - look for patches, wear spots, fading, peeling patches, poorly applied patches (ie. more glue than patch), seams that are starting to separate, operation of valves. As for frame, how heavy is it, if it's steel does it show signs of serious rust (external or internal), what condition is it in, does it easily break down, or will you need a trailer or rack system for it, are any welds cracked or broken, etc. 

5. Find a friend with experience that you trust to help you check out the used rafts/frames. There are used rafts out there for good prices that will give you years of enjoyment - and then there are other rafts out there that you can spend more time repairing than using. 

6. Consider renting - either to try before you buy, or as an ongoing solution. If you're only going to use it on a few trips a year - it might be worth it to spend a few hundred a year renting instead of dropping $2K-$7K up front. 

Cheers!


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