# Dying on a cat track



## Ture

To the guys who are going so fast down green cat tracks and overcrowded pre-season cruisers that they are dying on impact when they lose control: thank you for not taking a little kid with you, you flaming assholes. You are the reason I cringe when I ski early season with my family. Have fun being dead.


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## kayakfreakus

While your point is very valid, your statements make you look like the flaming asshole.

Good luck with your own karma.


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## kclowe

I agree with your sentiment even if your delivery could use work.  I am avoiding the hill until later this season because of that very reason. Its too dangerous for the 5 yr old and I just got a shiny new acl and meniscus. Hoping the resorts get the lifts open soon.


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## Jahve

Yea I don't ski front range resorts pretty much ever - just not worth it. 

Also you will never ever find me on a "white ribbon of death" - ever. I think that there are Mr Rogers re-runs on all day and I would rather fill my time enjoying the show than dodging "rangers" on a ice chunk that resembles Minnesota more than Colorado.

It sucks - but you choose to put your life in peril when you choose to ski the anywhere on the I-70 shit show.. 

Just the way it is and it is not going to change.


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## jennifer

Thought your post was rather harsh Ture, but I then I tried to ski at WP today (Sunday). I survived 2 runs without injury or death, and I consider that a big accomplishment for the day.

Usually we have about 10 runs to choose from for every lift taking you to the top, but today there was 2 lifts going to the top for one run!!!!! If they can't increase the downhill capacity by opening more runs, then they should decrease the uphill capacity by only having 1 lift. 

Then you look at the people on the slopes, and realize most everyone fits into one of two categories: either snowboarders with testosterone levels 20X their IQ levels, or beginner skiers who think if they can go really fast in a straight line, then they really aren't beginners anymore. Wow, scary! If other resorts are looking the same, then I'm surprised there were only 2 deaths last week.


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## adgeiser

didn't i see this post last year about this time.....
....and the year before.

oh yeah and your yeti cooler works in the back of your subaru/tacoma.


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## mommydevo

Point taken about dangerous early season conditions and people skiing too fast, but if you knew anything about the skiier that died you may have a little compassion. It was indeed a freak accident. Your comment just physically made me feel sick, you insensitive ass.


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## BarryDingle

Seems to me that's it's the summit county brah's that are the reckless ones. But then again I'm just making a broad generalization,like everyone else on the webz. People that live in the mountains,or ski,couldn't possibly be out of control,you're all far too rad to ever be questioned. I hope one day I can live in mountains and finally be core. I already know which pair of Mountain Khakis I'm gonna rock everyday too. Mountain people are tough,and knowledgable when it comes to all things. They're infallible. It's science


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## Pizzle

GOBACKTOTHEFRONTRANGE.COM remember that site, it was sweeeet! 

Pump House is sick
Barry Dingle rocks mountain khakis and drives a range rover. 
This thread is super lame.


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## wheretheriverflows

Hell of a way to start the season, no? You people hate, hate, hate. Did I mention that you hate??? I also got sick reading the start of this thread - Ture, Pizzle, RdNeck - eat a dick. All of you guys act like your shit doesnt stink - you are the same as anyone who goes to the mountains to recreate - you had to learn to ski, raft, kayak or whatever you do, so show a little respect and try TEACHING skills, ADVOCATE the skiers code and receving training and try SMILING at the wonderful people - the tourism dollars that are spent at ANY ski resort in this state provide for the towns we live in, the roads we drive on and the businesses that keep us here - unless you have a trust fund to spend - maybe that's how you can afford being "core" and living in the mountains? I have bills to pay and a gas tank to answer to, so I will spend my time at the Vail resorts on I70, Loveland, WP, Copper and Eldora and I will be sure to smile at the people, even if they are still learning. And I will do that on the weekends, since I have a regular job and have to be at the office at least 40 hours a week. If you want a lesson, let me know - I am a very patient teacher. I remember when I knew nothing about skiing - and the awesome people who taught me how to ski. What do you remember - how awesome YOU are? 
My condolences to the family of the young man from CU who died recently.


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## hartle

dont ski with your kid if your nervous. i bring my 3 kids 2,3 and 5. and they are the flaming assholes


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## DanOrion

You guys seem a little tense. Maybe you should head down to Pucon and go kayaking with me.


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## MikeG

hartle said:


> i bring my 3 kids 2,3 and 5. and they are the flaming assholes


Wow, must be fun to be your kid. Such a term of endearment.


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## palidog

I bet that Ture is the same guy that gets his pass pulled for going too fast or ducking ropes, and then has beers with Dingle to discuss how all ski patrollers are dicks. Very articulate arguments from the both of them.


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## carvedog

and to think that I thought this was going to be about waxing to carry speed on the cat roads. 

Try switching to decaf. More weed than alcohol and don't go out to play when the loonies are out. If it's full time all the time, try a different spot. Maybe even one that doesn't ****gasp**** have high speed quads. Your kids might like to see you a little more relaxed. 

If none of that works than you might try CHILLING THE FUCK OUT. 

That's all i have.


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## caseybailey

As you become more familiar with early season skiing in colorado, you will discover that this is the norm. Lots of people are chomping at the bit to go skiing, but most areas only have a handful of runs open. 

As a parent, your kids are your responsibility...they are not the responsibility of the people who are going 200 mph on a cat track. Obviously, you see the danger and now, as a responsible parent, you should avoid taking your child into the dangerous situation or accept the risks.

To take to the buzz and think this will rectify the situation is unrealistic. Put your kids safety first and your job as unofficial ski patrol/policeman second.


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## Cutch

caseybailey said:


> As a parent, your kids are your responsibility...they are not the responsibility of the people who are going 200 mph on a cat track. Obviously, you see the danger and now, as a responsible parent, you should avoid taking your child into the dangerous situation or accept the risks.
> 
> To take to the buzz and think this will rectify the situation is unrealistic. Put your kids safety first and your job as unofficial ski patrol/policeman second.


Actually, the buzz (snowriders) is probably an ideal forum to discuss snow riding issues in our local society. The entire point of a forum is to discuss everything in and around the sports of skiing and snowboarding. If more people were aware that this is an issue, it might not be an issue. Just because you feel that everyone in Colorado already knows that people riding too fast is an issue doesn't mean that we should then tell the youth that, "hey, skiing is great, but since I have to let you risk your life to participate then you can't, because in order to be a responsible parent I have to keep you away from uncontrollable risks." 

Plenty of us enjoy riding fast. As a knuckle dragger that hates getting stuck on cat tracks, I understand the need to maintain speed, and have pissed off or scared more than a few people over the years. When it comes to speed enforcement, most patrollers can tell the difference between someone hauling ass at the edge of their ability, and someone hauling ass that is in complete control and could stop quickly. As a parent, I get a bit nervous when people go hauling ass by my daughter, but just as concerning and problematic is when my daughter gets nervous and starts making wider turns than others. I've spent plenty of time riding behind her as a blocker from all of the crazies. In short, people that ride out of control are assholes that put others in risk. People that ride in control can and do occasionally get in the way, or haul ass by you, but they are taking the responsibility of being in control, and for that it's worth just chilling out and sharing. More parents could use some time in the hut. 

The mountain resident vs front range is hilarious shit talking at times, and at other times people are complete assholes. Max was the man, and thus was thoroughly enjoying his job and time on the front range when he authored GoBackToTheFrontRange . com to make fun of gapers and yuppies and anyone else who thought they were cool. I'm more native and local to Colorado than the majority of you mountain folk (admittedly I spent a year of elementary school in Farmington, NM, so you might have me beat). I live in downtown Denver because its a great city to live in and I like some aspects of city life. I dig the outdoors and sports so much that I recreate in the mountains all of the time and clog up I-70 every weekend during the winter. This winter I plan on parking my POS ski van (yeah bitches) in front of your summit county condo like I own the place, and it will be even more obvious that I'm not as local as you, just sicker. And proud to represent from Colorado and Denver. See you in the lift line.


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## marko

Cutch, 

You can park your POS van in front of my house up here in Breck any day of the week... I'll even buy you a beer or two. But I'm gonna have to ponder whether or not I will share my secret pow stashes with a knuckle-dragger.


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## Cutch

Hell yea Mark! It will be like old times but better. Instead of being the guy on your couch I'll be the guy with the van in your driveway. Let's talk about these powder stashes of yours over a beer.


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## hartle

Hey mikeG 
my little kids are going to flip you off if they see you on the mountain then run you off the cat track. they are great kids and i know its fun to be them


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## mommydevo

Wow, your kids know how to flip people off already? I waited till mine were 7 before I taught them that.


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## treehugger

I move faster than the flow of traffic on cat tracks and greens. I have been sliding down mountains for 32 yrs, Or since i was three. I am in complete control, much more than the noobs snowplowing at 3mph. Why would I slow down to thier speed? I have been yelled at by people who hear noise behind them, panic and fall, but that is not really my problem because i was watching them zigzag across the cat track, I know about when they are going to turn and a just pass them where they are not going to be. 
Now I know that testosterone poisoning is a leading cause of death among young men (esp the Bra's) and the people they crash into. But dont assume everyone out there who passes your slow ass is out of control.

PS Children are made of rubber, they bounce back well. And now they are wearing helmets. What are you worried about? I learned to ski at 3, with no helmet. The only lift was a T Bar that would lift kids off the ground for about 8 ft. I lost most of my babyteeth to that T Bar. I crashed into trees and generally just pointed em down hill and went as fast as I could. I crashed allot. My parents figured that kids will be kids, they are going to get hurt. They didn't try to protect me from every damn hazard, they never got upset because the lift kept knocking their kids teeth out. Life is pain, the sooner kids learn that the better.
I am sad to see the generations of coddled, soft children our society is creating. And WTF about child labor laws, I took my first job in the 5th grade splitting wood for a commercial firewood guy. Kids are just learning to blame everything on everyone else from their parents and you cant even develope good work ethics in kids any more because we have to protect them from everything. 

So just stick your kid in a bubble until they are 18 and see how long you have to ween them in their adulthood to get'em off the friggen tit.


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## billfrenchvail

*?*

Glad to hear you have been riding cat tracks and green runs for 32 years. I think it's a dick move to ski fast in the designated Slow Areas of the ski resort no matter how good you think you are. Not to suggest that all cat tracks and green run meet this criteria.


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## FLOWTORCH

treehugger said:


> I move faster than the flow of traffic on cat tracks and greens. I have been sliding down mountains for 32 yrs, Or since i was three. I am in complete control, much more than the noobs snowplowing at 3mph. Why would I slow down to thier speed? I have been yelled at by people who hear noise behind them, panic and fall, but that is not really my problem because i was watching them zigzag across the cat track, I know about when they are going to turn and a just pass them where they are not going to be.
> Now I know that testosterone poisoning is a leading cause of death among young men (esp the Bra's) and the people they crash into. But dont assume everyone out there who passes your slow ass is out of control.
> 
> PS Children are made of rubber, they bounce back well. And now they are wearing helmets. What are you worried about? I learned to ski at 3, with no helmet. The only lift was a T Bar that would lift kids off the ground for about 8 ft. I lost most of my babyteeth to that T Bar. I crashed into trees and generally just pointed em down hill and went as fast as I could. I crashed allot. My parents figured that kids will be kids, they are going to get hurt. They didn't try to protect me from every damn hazard, they never got upset because the lift kept knocking their kids teeth out. Life is pain, the sooner kids learn that the better.
> I am sad to see the generations of coddled, soft children our society is creating. And WTF about child labor laws, I took my first job in the 5th grade splitting wood for a commercial firewood guy. Kids are just learning to blame everything on everyone else from their parents and you cant even develope good work ethics in kids any more because we have to protect them from everything.
> 
> So just stick your kid in a bubble until they are 18 and see how long you have to ween them in their adulthood to get'em off the friggen tit.


This sounds pretentious. 




> PS Children are made of rubber, they bounce back well.


Sounds logical.



> I move faster than the flow of traffic on cat tracks and greens.


Thats almost signature worthy.

MikeG, that harle is like 12. And besides that, 2&3 year old kids can barely walk, let alone ski. Especially kids on the west slope. Dont feed the douche.


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## treehugger

Sorry didn't mean to sound pretentious. What I am saying is that I am going to move faster than a begginer, and I am only on the cat track/green to get to more interesting terrain. SO DONT FRIGGEN YELL AT ME FOR PASSING! I have been threatened with losing my pass at breck (I no longer choose to ride there) on a green. I wasn't going recklessly fast and I did not cut anyone off. I was in control doing nice carves. Trail wasnt crowded. But I got stopped and chewed out. Thats really overkill. Yeah if you see someone who obviously out of control and is a danger, do something. But dont bother people just cause they are going faster than your 2 yr old. It does not mean they are out of control and endangering everyone around them. 

If you are on a two lane rd with a passing zone and a 55 mph speed limit are you going to slow down to 25 mph and not pass when you come up on a tractor? No, if there is an opening you PASS. Does that mean you should get a ticket? No Same thing on a mountain.


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## treehugger

I learned to ski on the NH downhill iceskating mountains, not the west slope. you have to learn to use your edges there. 32 years ago in boondock (AKA Tilton) NH our local daycare was the ski area during the winter. 3yr olds can learn to ski and walk back there. I don't know about kids on the west slope, but at least they get to fall on snow.


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## treehugger

What you really need to watch out for are the Dumbass Texans on I-70 with their giant SUV's, tailgating in a snowstorm thinking that they can stop fast because they have 4 wheel drive. Thats the scariest thing about skiing in CO.


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## lemsip

treehugger said:


> What you really need to watch out for are the Dumbass Texans on I-70 with their giant SUV's, tailgating in a snowstorm thinking that they can stop fast because they have 4 wheel drive. Thats the scariest thing about skiing in CO.


Most of them seem to drive at 35 in the left lane when it snows.


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## twitch

> I dig the outdoors and sports so much that I recreate in the mountains all of the time and clog up I-70 every weekend during the winter.


I thought that was you in your pedophile van in the left lane you flaming Farmington / Front-Ranger! Now that you've discovered Denver, stay there!


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## treehugger

lemsip said:


> Most of them seem to drive at 35 in the left lane when it snows.


 
Yeah that may be the most annoying thing about driving I-70 during any time of the year. In the winter they are driving like morons in giant SUV's , in the summer they drive giant motor homes like morons. If only we could deport them to mexico......


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## caseybailey

treehugger said:


> If you are on a two lane rd with a passing zone and a 55 mph speed limit are you going to slow down to 25 mph and not pass when you come up on a tractor? No, if there is an opening you PASS. Does that mean you should get a ticket? No Same thing on a mountain.


I think an appropriate metaphor would equate a green run to a 25mph speed limit. Not 55. This misunderstanding of the color-coding system of ski-area runs may be what caused the patroller to speak to you in the first place.


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## treehugger

caseybailey said:


> I think an appropriate metaphor would equate a green run to a 25mph speed limit. Not 55. This misunderstanding of the color-coding system of ski-area runs may be what caused the patroller to speak to you in the first place.


The color code refers to trail difficulty, not speed limits. Maybe you should read the key to your trail map sometime.

If you are in control then it is reasonable to pass people and to move faster than people snowplowing. Like passing a slower vehicle. I have not hit anyone, i give them plenty of space but i am not going to slow down to thier speed. I am going to go around them and not hit them, just like i go around lift towers and trees.... 

I am not advocating going faster than you can maintain control (unless they are from texas, then they should go thru the trees at top speed, backwards while throwing a football). I am not saying anyone should smash thru noobs like they are gates on a race course (Unless the noob is from texas). 

What I am saying is don't be a flaming asshole just because someone passes you or your children. If their arms are flailing, they are screaming in panic and they look out of control fine, chew em a new one. But if someone weaves thru a bunch of people under control them leave them alone. 

I think think that not being a flaming asshole to people who are not hurting anyone would make the world a better place. It would also reduce prison overcrowding and make America the Land of the Free again. All good things. 

"Live Free Or Die" NH state motto.


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## caseybailey

So you are standing by your metaphor? If green equals a 55 mph road, then what does blue equal? Black? Double Black? Triple Black? If the color code doesn't refer to speed limits, why did you include the speed limit in your metaphor?

Other questions for you:
-Who detemines if one is in control? The individual? The ski patrol? God?
-Who do ski areas and local sheriffs believe has the authority to determine who is in control?
-One place you're from Idaho, one place your from NH, and you complain about texans and I-70. Do you feel this is just? Should I start complaining about all the Bostonians clogging up I-89 on their way to Bretton Woods?
-Do you know that there are significantly less "rules" in the mountains surrounding the ski areas? In the west, these mountains are frequently on public lands and open to all. Doesn't it make sense to go to areas with fewer rules than to go to areas with more rules and complain about them?
-What does "tousch et li pude tu" mean?
-How many fibers are intertwined in a buscuit of shredded wheat? 




treehugger said:


> The color code refers to trail difficulty, not speed limits. Maybe you should read the key to your trail map sometime.
> 
> If you are in control then it is reasonable to pass people and to move faster than people snowplowing. Like passing a slower vehicle. I have not hit anyone, i give them plenty of space but i am not going to slow down to thier speed. I am going to go around them and not hit them, just like i go around lift towers and trees....
> 
> I am not advocating going faster than you can maintain control (unless they are from texas, then they should go thru the trees at top speed, backwards while throwing a football). I am not saying anyone should smash thru noobs like they are gates on a race course (Unless the noob is from texas).
> 
> What I am saying is don't be a flaming asshole just because someone passes you or your children. If their arms are flailing, they are screaming in panic and they look out of control fine, chew em a new one. But if someone weaves thru a bunch of people under control them leave them alone.
> 
> I think think that not being a flaming asshole to people who are not hurting anyone would make the world a better place. It would also reduce prison overcrowding and make America the Land of the Free again. All good things.
> 
> "Live Free Or Die" NH state motto.


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## treehugger

caseybailey said:


> So you are standing by your metaphor? If green equals a 55 mph road, then what does blue equal? Black? Double Black? Triple Black? If the color code doesn't refer to speed limits, why did you include the speed limit in your metaphor?
> 
> Other questions for you:
> -Who detemines if one is in control? The individual? The ski patrol? God?
> -Who do ski areas and local sheriffs believe has the authority to determine who is in control?
> -One place you're from Idaho, one place your from NH, and you complain about texans and I-70. Do you feel this is just? Should I start complaining about all the Bostonians clogging up I-89 on their way to Bretton Woods?
> -Do you know that there are significantly less "rules" in the mountains surrounding the ski areas? In the west, these mountains are frequently on public lands and open to all. Doesn't it make sense to go to areas with fewer rules than to go to areas with more rules and complain about them?
> -What does "tousch et li pude tu" mean?
> -How many fibers are intertwined in a buscuit of shredded wheat?


Yes I stand behind the metaphor. The overall speed is irrelevant, what is important is the speed of the moving objects in relation to each other. The speed limit mentioned in the preceding post was to give the reader a visual example. 

Since you have not refered to a trail map key as i recommended before i will explain the colors to you. Green = begginer, blue = intermediate, Black = expert the addition of black diamonds indicates increasing difficulty above single black diamond.

As for who determines whether you are out of control. I would say 1st the individual, 2nd the ski patrol if they can catch up to the individual and 3rd the almighty flying spaggetti monster may you all be blessed by his noodley appendages.

The man and the law always think they have the authority, fight the power. Don't let the man keep a brotha down!

I am from NH 21 years, lived in Colorado for 11 years then I got a job in Idaho. 

And yes I will complain about texans on I 70. I think that the high temps negatively affects the development of thier brain. And nothing good ever came from texas. They move to CO and try to change river access to match what they are used to in texas and they can't drive in the snow. 
Bostonians have made a science and an art out of aggresive driving. I would rather drive in boston than denver. Because Bostonians know how to drive. Though they have earned the nickname "Massholes" for a reason. They also clog up 93 going to waterville Valley etc. And yes go ahead and complain about them if you want. Its a free country. 

It does make sense to go to mtns that allow for more freedom. That is one of the reasons I like A Basin and won't spend my money at Breckenridge or Vail. But I will still bash Breckenridge because it has to many rules and lines of speed facists. Might be because it caters to rich assholes who will sue over a broken fingernail. And I will also bash it because it is a free country. Save the Elk, feed the rich to the wolves!

Yo no habla frenchie. Does that mean "would you like rupture duck liver Pate with your freedom fries?"

I would have to guess that there are millions of intertwined fibers in a shedded wheat. Organized into hundreds of stands which are layered to make a shredded wheat.


A texan and an arizona rancher shares a fence along the border. THey are out checking the fence together and find a sheep with it's head stuck.

The Arizona rancher drops his pants and goes to town on the poor helpless sheep. When he finishes he says ok, your turn pardner.

The Texan then sticks his head in the fence.

Peace and love. cant we all just get along? It's all good bro and all that happy touchy feely peaceful crap. Merry kwanza. Happy Hooligan days.

Geez this has been fun..... hahahahahahahah


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## Fry

Skiing was ruined with the invention of the lift.


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## carvedog

treehugger said:


> The color code refers to trail difficulty, not speed limits...... Green = begginer, blue = intermediate, Black = expert the addition of black diamonds indicates increasing difficulty above single black diamond.


The complete lack of any kind of uniformity in the 'rating' system is the reason why we regularly pick up gripped tourists off of the Greens in Sun Valley. They commonly say 'this is steeper than our blues back at Mt Winterpimple' with eyes wide, tongue wagging, brow furrowed and peppered with sweat. Green is actually Easiest, Blues - more difficult, Black most difficult and Double Black is redonkulous difficult. To think that all runs would fit into a three speed with overdrive rating model is really stupid and to rely on the rating even more so. 



Fry said:


> Skiing was ruined with the invention of the lift.


Go eat some granola. Hippie.


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## Fry

carvedog said:


> Go eat some granola. Hippie.


I will! Thank you.


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## snakester

Although I generally agree with the tree hugger, you made some good points, since when does Texas and Arizona share a border? Skiing flat runs can be dangerous when it's crowded; everybody should wear a helmet but it shouldn't be a law.But if you mow someone down you should get your ticket pulled.


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## caseybailey

carvedog said:


> Go eat some granola. Hippie.


To only give the hippies credit for "true skiing" really pisses me off. Coming from a long line of old school Colorado skiers, I can assure you that the stories of piling in the model A and packing out a run pre-dates hippies by a long ways.

Justify your need to dress up cute and parade around 10 billion other people at an area some other way. Saying that you do so, just so people don't think you're a hippy only celebrates your vanity and would be more at home in the shopping mall.

Ski areas are great. Being able to travel freely in winter mountainous terrain is even better. Soldiers, ranchers, and naturalists are the foundations of our sport. Not hippies (or fat, lazy, lift-riding Americans)


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## carvedog

caseybailey said:


> To only give the hippies credit for "true skiing" really pisses me off. Coming from a long line of old school Colorado skiers, I can assure you that the stories of piling in the model A and packing out a run pre-dates hippies by a long ways.
> 
> Justify your need to dress up cute and parade around 10 billion other people at an area some other way. Saying that you do so, just so people don't think you're a hippy only celebrates your vanity and would be more at home in the shopping mall.
> 
> Ski areas are great. Being able to travel freely in winter mountainous terrain is even better. Soldiers, ranchers, and naturalists are the foundations of our sport. Not hippies (or fat, lazy, lift-riding Americans)


I didn't give anyone credit for "true skiing". You sure suppose a lot out of a simple sarcastic statement.

I have no need to dress up and I don't enjoy parading around anyone else. That's why I live in Idaho. Lot's less douche bag Coloradans with elitist anti-establishment, anti-lift sentiment. Or pro-lift holier than thou sentiment. I despise shopping malls too. Learned to ride in the backcountry not a ski area and I have a splitboard for the pass and points accessed from there up North. 

And here I thought that people who lived in the mountains who needed to get from one place to another were the foundations of 'our' sport. I guess you could call them 'naturalists'. I know the 10th Mtn guys made it a lot more mainstream and popular. Ranchers? Really? Like towing bales of hay around to get it out to the cows or XC skiing to check on the stock. Hmmmm I don't follow. 

Upon rereading your post I actually don't have a clue what you are on about on most of it. Whatever conception of person that you have in your mind is not me.


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## JCKeck1

I figure maybe someone should actually drop a bit of nawlege on this post:

Colorado Skier Safety Act
33-44-109. Duties of skiers - penalties. 
(1) Each skier solely has the responsibility for knowing the range of his own ability to negotiate any ski slope or trail and to ski within the limits of such ability. Each skier expressly accepts and assumes the risk of and all legal responsibility for any injury to person or property resulting from any of the inherent dangers and risks of skiing; except that a skier is not precluded under this article from suing another skier for any injury to person or property resulting from such other skier's acts or omissions. Notwithstanding 
any provision of law or statute to the contrary, the risk of a skier/skier collision is neither an inherent risk nor a risk assumed by a skier in an action by one skier against another. 
(2) Each skier has the duty to maintain control of his speed and course at all times when skiing and to maintain a proper lookout so as to be able to avoid other skiers and objects. However, the primary duty shall be on the person skiing downhill to avoid collision with any person or objects below him.
(3) No skier shall ski on a ski slope or trail that has been posted as "Closed"
(8) Before beginning to ski from a stationary position or before entering a ski slope or trail from the side, the skier shall have the duty of avoiding moving skiers already on the ski slope or trail. 
(10) No skier involved in a collision with another skier or person in which an injury results shall leave the vicinity of the collision before giving his or her name and current address to an employee of the ski area operator or a member of the ski patrol, except for the purpose of securing aid for a person injured in the collision; in which event the person so leaving the scene of the collision shall give his or her name and current address as required by this subsection (10) after securing such aid. 
(11) No person shall knowingly enter upon public or private lands from an adjoining ski area when such land has been closed by its owner and so posted by the owner or by the ski area operator pursuant 
to section 33-44-107 (6). 
(12) Any person who violates any of the provisions of subsection (3), (9), (10), or (11) of this section is guilty of a class 2 petty offense and, upon conviction thereof, shall be punished by a fine of not more than one thousand dollars.


Or the short version: You are responsible for anyone down hill of you. If you hit them, they can sue you. If you hit them, then run, they can still sue you and the State of CO will tack on a criminal offense and $1000. Cutting 'Closed' ropes, skiing while drinking and cutting out of the ski resort not through a back country gate can earn you a criminal offense and $1000 fine. 

On occasion, I've seen someone out-run a patroller. But I've never seen them out-run his radio to the bottom... food for thought.

Safe turns and deep pow everyone
Joe


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## snakester

carvedog said:


> Ranchers? Really? Like towing bales of hay around to get it out to the cows or XC skiing to check on the stock. Hmmmm I don't follow.


The tenth mtn division was developed for WWII. But before that in Colorado, ranchers started skiing downhill, for fun. Not to get hay to the cows, they had other means for that. But real people who lived here in the winter wanted to try skiing, for the thrill. And ranchers, generally don't want to walk back up the hill, so they invented the rope tow, with a car or a truck or something on blocks with a wheel and no tire and a long rope spliced back together and another wheel at the bottom. Ranchers, innovators, pioneers of modern skiing.


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## CGM

snakester said:


> Ranchers, innovators, pioneers of modern skiing.


Color me skeptical on this one.


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## Fry

carvedog said:


> Lot's less douche bag Coloradans with elitist anti-establishment, anti-lift sentiment.


Wow I have graduated from hippy to douchebag. O well haters gotta hate I guess. 

The best thing that happens to ski areas? They shut down and quit running or pull the lifts. Berthoud is a good case in point. I could name a couple of others, but I don't want to see anyone else up there cuz, well, I guess I hate crowds. There you go.

Lift served skiing is a dangerous, crowded, exasperating search for fresh tracks.


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## lmyers

snakester said:


> Ranchers, innovators, pioneers of modern skiing.


The pioneers of skiing in Colorado are people such as Enos Mills, who was Colorado's first "Snow Observer" and a ski mountaineer in the early 1900's...and Reverend John Dyer who would carry mail over 13,000' Mosquito Pass on his 10' skis back in the 1850's.


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## CGM

Fry said:


> The best thing that happens to ski areas? They shut down and quit running or pull the lifts. Berthoud is a good case in point. I could name a couple of others, but I don't want to see anyone else up there cuz, well, I guess I hate crowds. There you go.
> 
> Lift served skiing is a dangerous, crowded, exasperating search for fresh tracks.


Fortunately, CO has alot of backcountry to explore and you can get away from the crowds. Its an aspect of the sport that I really enjoy. But I don't get the elitist backcountry dude-tude.


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## captishmael

Fry said:


> Lift served skiing is a dangerous, crowded, exasperating search for fresh tracks.


So it is, So it is. That plus ......................
the carving of lines in glistening snow, feeling as weightless as a bird, revelling in the brightest of sun that sea level dwellers only dream about. Unzipping your parka at zero degrees because you're skiing so hard that the sweat rolls down your brow. Taking in vistas where the visibility is measured in Tens of Miles, not Multiples of Feet. Going way too fast, stretching the limits of your ability, with the knowledge that Yes, It is dangerous, and that's why you don't let your guard down. Nor do you ever hit a skier below you. There is no excuse for that.
PEACE.


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## Fry

About the last thing this blown out old hippy feels like is elitist, but I guess I do have an attitude when it comes to sharing my stashes...

Happily there IS a lot of snow out there, enough for us all...


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## David L

captishmael said:


> So it is, So it is. That plus ......................
> the carving of lines in glistening snow, feeling as weightless as a bird, revelling in the brightest of sun that sea level dwellers only dream about. Unzipping your parka at zero degrees because you're skiing so hard that the sweat rolls down your brow. Taking in vistas where the visibility is measured in Tens of Miles, not Multiples of Feet. Going way too fast, stretching the limits of your ability, with the knowledge that Yes, It is dangerous, and that's why you don't let your guard down. Nor do you ever hit a skier below you. There is no excuse for that.
> PEACE.


Excellent, very well said.

I'll add...Skiing however I want with no rules. And, being able to turn around and watch my dog romp down in my turn tracks.


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## GPP33

Fry said:


> The best thing that happens to ski areas? They shut down and quit running or pull the lifts. Berthoud is a good case in point. I could name a couple of others, but I don't want to see anyone else up there cuz, well, I guess I hate crowds. There you go.
> 
> .


I never understand this viewpoint. If you hate crowds why don't you support resorts? They contain the masses. Force them to run wild in the BC and you can bet on two things: 

1) More crowds carving up the snow in your currently deserted stash.
2) The govt stepping in making rules to protect you as a result of the stupid situations the masses get themselves into.


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## Fry

I wouldn't say I am advocating shutting down lifts GPP, you make a good point. I am merely pointing out that IMO, lift served areas serve up inferior skiing simply by their existence.

However, I think if they all quit running there would not be a mass exodus to the B/C. Lifts get a lot of people who wouldn't otherwise be skiing to the tops of mountains.

I think that the migration to the B/C began some time ago and is currently accelerating. The people who are heading up under their own power are the ones who would still be skiing if the lifts all closed.

David L, man you pegged it. I love skiing with my dogs...


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## David L

Thanks Fry. Hey y'all - If you ever see a guy with an old, light red goretex jacket skiing Butler Gulch with a golden retriever, say hello to me and Ruby. Especially on Wednesday, my birthday!


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## Theophilus

Fry said:


> Lift served skiing is a dangerous, crowded, exasperating search for fresh tracks.


Quoted for truth. I'll choose an off-piste adventure every time.


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## Fry

Hey I skied Butler Gulch & Jones Pass quite a bit when I lived on the Front Range... Now you'll know I'm coming when you see a pair of goofy Redbones coming at you. I will be somewhere behind them in the Routt County B/C, truly some of the best snow on earth...

Merry Christmas buzzards! And David, give Ruby a bone & say good girl for me!


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