# Westwater help



## julius (Jul 28, 2015)

I searched around on old threads thinking this topic had already been discussed, but without any luck. I am interested in heading to Westwater Canyon sometime soon but haven't been before. I'm looking for some advice for a first time trip. Is it unreasonable for a group of novices who have never been on this stretch to run it on our own? I would be running it with a 14 foot AIRE Super Duper Puma and a 2 person IK. Should I go with one of the commercial companies first so that I could have a feel for the tricky parts before going down with my own group? Are there any Westwater regulars that could be bribed to let me join their posse for a day?

I am a thirty something family man (but not bringing the family on this trip). I don't have a ton of river experience (yet) but I am hooked. The River trips I have taken are: Moab Daily, Jackson Daily, Ruby Horsethief, day trips on the Salmon near Shoup. 

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Julius


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## melted_ice (Feb 4, 2009)

My advice is to go with someone who's done it before and wait until after high water. The water will be much warmer if things don't go well and you can go at a more desirable flow. Late summer/early fall trips are awesome.


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## kazak4x4 (May 25, 2009)

WW is the most discussed on this forum, I am surprised you haven't found much info.

Also search on Youtube, ton of stuff there. I, alone, have nearly 10 videos of different levels.

Anyways, do you have a permit yet? Depending on what level you are going at, the danger level changes.

If you are doing 3-6k cfs, you will live. If you are doing 11-16k with no experience, you will die. Higher than that, gets way too fast and with no experience I wouldn't recommend it.

From the list of rivers you listed, Westwater will be much more techy. The rapids themselves aren't too bad, but how close they are and how fast things happen is what throws people off.

When I was starting on Westwater, I was looking for invites on this forum (and utahrafters group). So I can ride in someone elses boat or tag along with mine. I wouldn't recommend going to westwater without someone who has been there before with your list of rivers (no offense).


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## julius (Jul 28, 2015)

Thanks for the tips. No offense taken Kazak, I am not under any delusions that I am a rafting badass. I plan to err on the side of caution at this point. I'll see if I can join along with someone else first.


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## rivh2o (Jan 17, 2013)

Kazak he doesn't mess with words. You might get lucky at the 11-16 but this isn't Vegas and Westwater at that level is called the "terrible teens"
for a reason. I would find other boaters that have been down Westwater before and learn the ropes. Myself I have over a hundred trips and I always get butterflies on every trip no matter the level there is something that can flip you and then it is going to be trouble.


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## kazak4x4 (May 25, 2009)

I didn't mean to offend you by any means, but the first time I showed up at Westwater's ranger station in 2006 with two IKs and 15k cfs. Ranger told me he can't stop me, but he will call S&R once I launched. I took his advice and did Moab Daily instead, where we had a bad rescue on White Rapid as it is, since the river was wild.

Westwater is a great learning river, but you should try to hit it at 3-6k level and with a group who knows the lines and can help with the rescue.

Like rivh2o, I get butterflies just thinking of dropping into Funnel Falls even at 5k level.

PS: and if you think my warning is bad.... come to one of my river safety talks before the rapids!  I scare the living shit out of people. Fear keeps you on track.


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## captishmael (Feb 8, 2008)

Ohhhhhhh, Nooooooooooo.

The closest I came to flipping on WW was at 3950 cfs, I will never forget that level. SITM develops a hole on the backside of the wave that goes almost to river bottom. For your first time, if you row your own boat, be part of a larger group with more experienced skippers. With the boats you mentioned, a rescue will be very difficult and maybe not possible until you are past Last Chance.


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## Flohotter (Jun 22, 2010)

I agree with Kazak the "teens" can crush and would not be advisable. When are you specifically planning on going?


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## grumper13 (Jan 14, 2008)

melted_ice said:


> My advice is to go with someone who's done it before and wait until after high water. The water will be much warmer if things don't go well and you can go at a more desirable flow. Late summer/early fall trips are awesome.


Ditto this. First time, go with folks who've done it before and when the water's warmer, in case someone swims.


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## wildh2onriver (Jul 21, 2009)

I've seen so many new/or lame boatman make it through. And then I've hiked back up and over twice now to help to help people stuck in the Room. It wasnt easy at those levels to get them out. The trail on top is well defined.


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## QuietHunter (Jun 8, 2010)

My first time was as a two boat party with another person who had never run Westwater and was at 11k. We did have quite a lot of technical whitewater experience between us, and did enough research ahead of time to know what to run, how to run it, and what to scout (we only scouted SITM). We had a great run with no problems. 

I have since ran it at levels from 3k - 37k. Above 20 it starts to wash out and becomes a wild ride. The consequences are significant at anything above 12. Each rapid can have some strange dynamics at different levels. I have never had a problem at Funnel or Skull, but I have seen others who have. I have lost passengers on SITM at 3700, and fished others out below Little D, Skull and SITM at a variety of levels.


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## cschmidt1023 (Jan 27, 2015)

I would not recommend a ducky for first timers. You will be fine with the experience you already have in the raft.

If the water gets above 10K I would advise you to wait till it drops back below that. Swims get pretty dangerous above 10K (more like 12-14 but since you're a family man and it's cold still). The Magnetic Wall is probably the #1 boat flipper from 6K to 10K, so be ready to pull away from that (after SITM). Skull will definitely flip you if you try running the hole as well. The safest line on Skull is to get as close to the right wall as you can and then pull hard left at the top of the lateral.


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## julius (Jul 28, 2015)

Thanks to all for the input. It sounds like I will be better off to wait until later in the summer before I try and go. Would it be a crazy idea to try to get a weekend permit for July or September for a half a dozen people and try to recruit some Westwater veterans from the forum to join as it gets closer? I'm too new to know if putting a group together like that is a regular thing or a silly idea. I'd be happy to pay for the permit and bring beer or pay for dinner that night or something in exchange for some pointers from a few experienced boaters.


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## kazak4x4 (May 25, 2009)

julius said:


> Thanks to all for the input. It sounds like I will be better off to wait until later in the summer before I try and go. Would it be a crazy idea to try to get a weekend permit for July or September for a half a dozen people and try to recruit some Westwater veterans from the forum to join as it gets closer? I'm too new to know if putting a group together like that is a regular thing or a silly idea. I'd be happy to pay for the permit and bring beer or pay for dinner that night or something in exchange for some pointers from a few experienced boaters.



If you can snag a permit for a Fri/Saturday, you will fill a crew very easily. Organizing a WW trip isn't hard and most seasoned boatman will help you in the TL (trip leading) task and gear.


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## UTMIKE (Nov 25, 2013)

as said before, i would go with experienced folks first time down. And would wait til flows are down and water temps are up. A swim at higher flows will be very cold and long if recovery is not quick=badtime..
WW always gets the nerves runnin, no matter how many times you have been
Have fun when you do go!!


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## lmyers (Jun 10, 2008)

julius said:


> Thanks to all for the input. It sounds like I will be better off to wait until later in the summer before I try and go. Would it be a crazy idea to try to get a weekend permit for July or September for a half a dozen people and try to recruit some Westwater veterans from the forum to join as it gets closer? I'm too new to know if putting a group together like that is a regular thing or a silly idea. I'd be happy to pay for the permit and bring beer or pay for dinner that night or something in exchange for some pointers from a few experienced boaters.


September is a beautiful time of year to be floating in the desert, and the month in which I did my first Westwater trip several years ago. Had a veteran guide show myself and a half dozen first timers down.


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## dfresh (May 19, 2010)

July or September will be perfect. I agree that September is a pretty bad ass time to go, definitely my
favorite time of year to go. But why wait, or choose, do both if you can get a permit. 
Putting a group together, no sweat. For years we did the big 25 man group, but too many varying capabilities turned into babysitting when I wanted to get hammered drunk. My first 20ish trips were kinda blacked out drunk, but the seldom sober moments were amazing. Watch the videos of the Rapids, it's not that hard and there are always people running west water that could help out if you really needed it. People are making too big a deal about this. It's got some pucker factor, but without it, it be like tubing Ruby Horse and doin the choo choo signal with your arm when the train comes by, LAME


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## jaffy (Feb 4, 2004)

I have way less experience on westwater than pretty much everyone who's posted, but I never thought it was that big a deal. I've only ever done it at low water (3-6k), and at that level nothing was that difficult and if you do flip there's plenty of flat water to clean up. I kayaked it my first season, and it was one of the first sections I rowed once I got my raft. I'd try and get someone who's done it before (which shouldn't be hard), but if you can't that wouldn't stop me from doing it at that level.

At high water I can easily see how it would become really challenging though, especially in a raft.

I guess I should say that it's definitely a step up from what you have done though.


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## Andy H. (Oct 13, 2003)

From what I've seen, a lot of the texture gets a little washed out between about 5 to 9K cfs, then the teeth start to come out at higher water. Bowling Alley disappears above 5K.

Here's the USGS gage where you can see current conditions and check out statistical data for any day of the year, and also monitor it for the pucker factor, or just see when it gets back to baseflow (3K-5K). Westwater's not a fun swim once it gets cranking - unless you like getting spun around in vortices while being sucked down despite a big Type V PFD and the suspense of wondering when and if you'll come back up (my experience at 10K).

The first time I rowed itI was lucky enough to follow the lines shown me by the president of the Chickenshit Boaters Club, who'd also been running it since the 70's - he greased them all. It's highly recommend going with someone who's been down it before for your first trip.

Don't get complacent just because you got through Skull and have fun!

-AH


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## DanCan (Jul 22, 2011)

I am in Riverton, Utah... we will be doing a "family" run in Aug again this year with the levels below 6k. I'll make sure and send you an invite, you are welcome to come along with us.

I love WW, but part of that love is that it scares me some times (most of the time actually).

DanCan


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## julius (Jul 28, 2015)

That would be awesome DanCan! I would love to join you if I can swing it, my August schedule is a little crazy. Thanks.


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## Osseous (Jan 13, 2012)

I'd love to come- I've rowed it low and high, could use a run at normal summer level.

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## WWRE Joe (Aug 1, 2015)

If you end up landing your own permit, I'd love to join ya! I've got 4 years guiding commercially on Westwater, seen levels from 2,000 to 20,000 cfs, even kayaked it few years back privately. I'd love to show ya the canyon, plus I'm just a few minutes north of ya here in Centerville ha ha!


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