# Recent boating accidents on the Ark



## Salidaboater (Nov 5, 2013)

Last week we had 2 accidents one death and still looking for a missing woman which I am sure won't turn out very good.

The first death mid week a friend and Salida fixture at the play hole saw a lone man getting ready to put in at the boat ramp in his duckie.

My friend said he almost said something to him just seeing if he was OK he was by himself and looked a little unsure and out of place, he didn't say anything and a few hours latter he turned up dead in the canyon.

Over the weekend a group put in at 4:30 in the afternoon at fisherman's bridge in a raft and were headed to Salida. (crazy to think they could make this in daylight) They ended up in the dark and went over the low head Dam a very dangerous place.

I am not sure how to help or prevent these accidents but from now on if I see something that looks a little weird or off, I am going to inquire in a nice way and try to help.

Lets all help prevent these tragic accidents. This are foolish things people are doing, but there are a lot of foolish people out there. That probably don't want to die.


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## gunnerman (Jun 6, 2013)

In the case of the rafting accident, there needs to be a good investigation on the owner of the boat. He took it upon himself to guide this young group (all of them in their early 20s) and should have known about the damn. If this man knew this danger exsisted and still ran this at night then charges need to be filed. Accidents are one thing, but negligence is totally different. Most people know the risks in normal conditions, but this was totally avoidable. Guiding during the day is one thing, but rafting in the dark is just plain stupid. People need to be accountable.


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## glenn (May 13, 2009)

gunnerman said:


> In the case of the rafting accident, there needs to be a good investigation on the owner of the boat. He took it upon himself to guide this young group (all of them in their early 20s) and should have known about the damn. If this man knew this danger exsisted and still ran this at night then charges need to be filed. Accidents are one thing, but negligence is totally different. Most people know the risks in normal conditions, but this was totally avoidable. Guiding during the day is one thing, but rafting in the dark is just plain stupid. People need to be accountable.


At 20 you are old enough to get out of the boat on your own volition. Unless this was a commercial or pirate trip I fail to see why negligence would be brought up.


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## Learch (Jul 12, 2010)

I learned that lesson a few years back. Yes, I say something if things look wrong. Some times they still don't listen, but we can only do so much. I've had it turn out really well, where we had some college kids join our group, and we were able to help them out along the way. They were smart, took our instruction well, and we all had a great day. 
Earlier that same season we said something to a couple who were going to solo a big coleman lake canoe down a river they had no business on. They broached on the first rapid, and needed assistance. We might have prevented a disaster that day, (aiding them in rescue) but at the time it was frustrating. They were unprepared and helplessly stuck without someone intervening. 
If I see any safety issues with kids involved, I feel the need to speak up. I don't really care who it pisses off. Typically I see the most problems on the class II beer floats in our area. People don't take those parts of the river seriously, and are generally underprepared mentally and physically.


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## Salidaboater (Nov 5, 2013)

gunnerman said:


> In the case of the rafting accident, there needs to be a good investigation on the owner of the boat. He took it upon himself to guide this young group (all of them in their early 20s) and should have known about the damn. If this man knew this danger exsisted and still ran this at night then charges need to be filed. Accidents are one thing, but negligence is totally different. Most people know the risks in normal conditions, but this was totally avoidable. Guiding during the day is one thing, but rafting in the dark is just plain stupid. People need to be accountable.


I just learned the owner and oarsman of the boat was approximately 60 years old, and an experienced boater. Some people I know did the Grand with him years back. He supposedly knows the Ark and has run it many times before.

Although I believe alcohol might have been a factor. In my opinion this man just killed someone. When people come to town and I take them rafting they are trusting me to do the right thing they don't know. Especially 20 year olds with an older man.

I have had a lot of guests in town lately that I have taken for various floats, but I know they are completely trusting me to do the right thing.


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## Salidaboater (Nov 5, 2013)

glenn said:


> At 20 you are old enough to get out of the boat on your own volition. Unless this was a commercial or pirate trip I fail to see why negligence would be brought up.


IMHO it was total negligence the leader of the trip put in at fisherman's bridge and was heading to Salida at 4:30 in the afternoon. That is stupid to begin with.

Once it became dark he should of eddied out and went to a plan B but heading through that rocky braided stretch with a dam a head of you is total negligence. Especially when you are 60 and experienced and the rest of the group is 20 and don't know the river.


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## glenn (May 13, 2009)

Salidaboater said:


> IMHO it was total negligence the leader of the trip put in at fisherman's bridge and was heading to Salida at 4:30 in the afternoon. That is stupid to begin with.
> 
> Once it became dark he should of eddied out and went to a plan B but heading through that rocky braided stretch with a dam a head of you is total negligence. Especially when you are 60 and experienced and the rest of the group is 20 and don't know the river.


Maybe the plan was to float at night? I fail to see how someone over 18 y.o. can't make their own decision. What does the age differential have to do with anything? The younger guys were complicit in the decision making although no one in the boat really knew what was going on or they would have hit the boat chute.


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## okieboater (Oct 19, 2004)

Very very difficult for me to question anyone's "boating" decisions.

After many decades of running mild to wild white water, including multiple runs down the Grand Canyon, I made a decision that at the time made sense to me. Turns out, that decision came as close to killing me (I give thanks to my buds, National Park Service Helicopter Paramedics and Dr John Hall at Flagstaff Medical Center for bringing my pretty much lifeless body back from the brink) as is possible. 

Based on my experience, I do not know what was going through anyone's mind on the ARK for the accident's day/evening we are now reviewing and even if I did, what I think may or may not count in their decision making process.

Bottom line: On most any WW run, if you get on the water craft, you made a decision and your experience may be good or bad.


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## streetdoctor (May 11, 2012)

At 20 years old you are not a kid.... Maybe they wanted/planned on doing a night float?


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## Phil U. (Feb 7, 2009)

Nooo... Condolences to those impacted by these tragedies. Education is the appropriate response, including at the putin, but no way should we start assessing blame and punishment to individuals on private trips. I just can't believe there was only one life lost with a raft running that dam.


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## Tannhauser (Jul 7, 2010)

So much speculation in this thread. Some jailhouse lawyering as well. Perhaps this should not be about blaming but trying to fix this as a system problem. 

You also forgot about the three duckies that ran the dam on 6/23.

Regarding the use of "negligence": "Five elements are required to establish a prima facie case of negligence: the existence of a legal duty to exercise reasonable care; a failure to exercise reasonable care; cause in fact of physical harm by the negligent conduct; physical harm in the form of actual damages; and proximate cause, a showing that the harm is within the scope of liability."

Is running over a river hazard in the dark negligent? Does your buddy have a Legal DUTY to do anything here? Also, until the details of this are released to the public there may be more to the story.


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## gunnerman (Jun 6, 2013)

Once again I think we are missing the point here. All I am saying is the accident happened because it was to dark to see the warning sign, and the oarsman of the raft totally missed the boat shoot, which caused the boat to flip in an hydraulic in a low-head dam and someone drowned cause of this negligence. That's why I,m just saying there needs to be a good investigation on this matter. Article is the the boater safety forum under June 28th Accident on the Ark. If and only if, this captain knew where the damn was and still fucked-up, he needs to be accountable. Kinda like missing the take-out on a Class III river, to only go over a 20' waterfall and saying, "I'm sorry", No, I don't think that's going to cut it!!!


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## psu96 (May 9, 2006)

Salidaboater said:


> IMHO it was total negligence the leader of the trip put in at fisherman's bridge and was heading to Salida at 4:30 in the afternoon. That is stupid to begin with.
> 
> Once it became dark he should of eddied out and went to a plan B but heading through that rocky braided stretch with a dam a head of you is total negligence. Especially when you are 60 and experienced and the rest of the group is 20 and don't know the river.



Do you know if the leader wanted to call of the trip but was persuaded against his better judgement. Do you know that the other members weren't fimiliar with the river? Do you know who was captain at the moment going over the dam? If you know more than the rest of us please tell otherwise your "IMHO" is really based on imagination, right? Glad your "IMHO" isn't law.


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## streetdoctor (May 11, 2012)

psu96 said:


> Do you know if the leader wanted to call of the trip but was persuaded against his better judgement. Do you know that the other members weren't fimiliar with the river? Do you know who was captain at the moment going over the dam? If you know more than the rest of us please tell otherwise your "IMHO" is really based on imagination, right? Glad your "IMHO" isn't law.


+1 some ridiculous beliefs in here...


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## ridecats (Aug 8, 2009)

gunnerman said:


> .... If this man knew this danger exsisted and still ran this at night then charges need to be filed. ...


Charges? Charges put people in prison. Are you comparing this to getting behind the wheel of a motor vehicle while drunk? Then again, if alcohol was involved, suddenly it's a much better comparison.


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## spencerhenry (Jun 21, 2004)

natural selection at is finest.


people here were not children. adults can make their own decisions. if you were not there, you do NOT know the facts.


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## Soup76 (Aug 19, 2009)

Before this thread turns into a distorted argument about "law". I wanted to share a story.

I'll be brief.

17 years old. My girlfriend, sister and her boyfriend were wanting an adventure. My sis and her boyfriend decided they wanted to go rafting. We launched a 8' Sevylor onto class 2plus water. We had no clue what we were doing or where we Were going. We all were wearing pfds but We were the definition of fucking stupid. We make it about half way down and this guy in a 'nice boat' rolls by us. He just politely asks us how were doing, if we have been on that stretch of water before, ect. We told him the truth, but were too dumb to ask for help. He offered to let us follow him through the class 3 at the bottom of the run. We made it through thanks to that guy. 

I have been hooked on boating since that day.


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## tango (Feb 1, 2006)

Armchair quarterbacking at its finest. Point your fingers. Lay the blame.


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## zbaird (Oct 11, 2003)

Im not saying that boating at night is the best idea. Also not saying that it is just plain stupid. Is there an escalated risk, sure. Is it unreasonable and negligent for experienced people to boat sections of river that they know well or are well within the realm of their skill level at night. I dont think so. I routinely run the upper/ lower section of cataract at night, ruby horse thief at night, browns at night, salida to rincon at night, finished tons of trips after dark, have been the spotlighter for some great surf sessions on little d in westy at night, on and on . All have gone well, every bit as good as my daytime runs. You have to be more aware and alert at night for sure but to say that it is just plain stupid in all accounts is a knee jerk ignorant statement at best. Just because you arent comfortable boating at night doesnt mean that it cant be done as safely as any other boating under the right conditions and controls. This is a risky sport, period. If you or anyone else is uncomfortable with it, dont do it! I hate to see how you guys vote.

Tossing out this blame at the drop of a hat with half the story at best is ridiculous. Could he be negligent, sure. IMHO, if he was boating wasted, should he be? no. Who knows what happened that night. If you were there, lets have the full story. You guys talk about "IMHO" but what you are saying doesnt seem humble at all.


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## Osseous (Jan 13, 2012)

I have run that stretch if the Ark at night- it's pretty easy. I cannot fathom how anyone could miss that boat chute and go over the dam. It's slow water, obvious channel and signs.....this is a curious one for sure.

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## panicman (Apr 7, 2005)

Don't think gunnerman is going to get any boating invites anytime soon. Might get sued by him for messing up a line in a rapid.


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## 2tomcat2 (May 27, 2012)

Interesting read: "Deep Survival: Who Lives, Who Dies and Why" Laurence Gonzales

Two groups at opposite ends of the experience spectrum are most likely to take risks:
the extremely inexperienced and the extremely experienced.

"If you understand, things are just as they are. If you do not understand, things are just as they are." Zen verse


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## mr. compassionate (Jan 13, 2006)

2tomcat2 said:


> Interesting read: "Deep Survival: Who Lives, Who Dies and Why" Laurence Gonzales
> 
> Two groups at opposite ends of the experience spectrum are most likely to take risks:
> the extremely inexperienced and the extremely experienced.
> ...


 2tomcat, decent book and great point.


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## Paul7 (Aug 14, 2012)

Does someone have a picture or video I'm curious what this dam and boat chute looks like. Is this an extreme and dangerous feature? 

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## Andy H. (Oct 13, 2003)

*From the other thread on this topic*










that's the dam in the background, boat chute in the foreground.


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## Paul7 (Aug 14, 2012)

Thanks that helps, looks like if you hit the chute all is well correct? 

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## DoStep (Jun 26, 2012)

The photograph is a little deceiving in that the boat chute is farther left than you might think. It's not the most obvious entry into the chute, 2 small marker rocks are there, but you simply can't go too far left. 

Yes it is an extreme and dangerous feature.


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## lmyers (Jun 10, 2008)

FYI that photo is from very high water. 4k+ from the look of it. At current flows the low head is a 10 ft pour over/horizon line.


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## T1112 (Mar 10, 2012)

Some of the view points here are insane! Why all the talk about 18+ being able to make their own decisions? Even my 2 year old can make his own decisions. I am 35 and even at my age many of my decisions are based off information I get from others and I need to decide to trust that info or not. Everyone on the planet can not be expected to know everything. If the 20 year olds were told by the older rafting guide that all is well and they are safe then I do not blame them for trusting that person.


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## jimr (Sep 8, 2007)

Real question is were they wearing pfds and were they blacked out drunk, seems most the fatalities this year mention nothing about wether they were drunk or wearing proper gear


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## Phil U. (Feb 7, 2009)

Hmmm... Seems to me the real question is where the hell is our compassion? I know a little bit about this accident and it was just that, an accident, one with a very tragic outcome. It may be, at this point, that what can be learned from this is people can look the eff in the mirror and ask themselves what they can learn about themselves.


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## Andy H. (Oct 13, 2003)

Phil U. said:


> Hmmm... Seems to me the real question is where the hell is our compassion? I know a little bit about this accident and it was just that, an accident, one with a very tragic outcome. It may be, at this point, that what can be learned from this is people can look the eff in the mirror and ask themselves what they can learn about themselves.


Yes, this is the real question I've been wondering about too. Enough with the second guessing and showing the world how much you know and how right you are. I'll wait for Charlie Walbridge to write up the report be glad to avoid all the speculation, arm waving, and chest puffing here.

Thanks Phil for getting it back to what really matters at this point.

-AH


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## Paul7 (Aug 14, 2012)

I agree it's tragic I think all are motivated by the fact that they wish it never happened and are looking for reasons. 

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## Bulala (May 17, 2014)

Actually...I took the photo before peak. Water level was 2600 ish that day... Here is the chute entrance on rl. You can see the eddy we have the boat, while scouting. Not a super easy or large eddy but very clear signage....








Then the middle chute (which I already posted in main thread and was copied above)








And finally the run out of the chute


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## Cipherion (Apr 23, 2009)

*Rock or fish ladders?*

It would be great if they could make a series of fish ladders (play holes) or just add some type of rock feature to make the pour over less retentive. There will most likely be more issues in the future at the dam but if we worked on a solution to the man made problem that would be the best possible outcome from this tragedy.


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## Paul7 (Aug 14, 2012)

Does the dam still have a purpose? 

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## lmyers (Jun 10, 2008)

Paul7 said:


> Does the dam still have a purpose?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900V using Mountain Buzz mobile app


No. It used to feed water to the Shavano Hatchery, but they now use water from another source. I heard a rumor a couple years ago there are matching funds available to eventually remove it, but I think the Silver Bullet was the first priority. When I was told this I heard there were long term plans to improve the dam at Granite as well...

I floated through that stretch solo on my SUP at Fibark a couple times and didn't remember the water being that high in the bushes on the island separating the chute from the dam.(think it was 2700-3000)...guess I must have been concentrating pretty hard on not falling off my board...


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## Paul7 (Aug 14, 2012)

That's a big problem with infrastructure, it has a relatively short life span and for the most part it's just abandoned with out any efforts to restore safety and scenic value after its no longer in use. Here in North idaho we have seemingly countless old mines that are just left idle. 

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## Andy H. (Oct 13, 2003)

So someone's dead because the hatchery neglected to clean up their junk. But there's probably no way to charge criminal negligence or even cite them for littering... That's the real crime here.


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## cadster (May 1, 2005)

Two other previous deaths due to dam reported by AW.

First seems to have happened prior to the boat chute being built.


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## denali1322 (Jun 3, 2013)

For what its worth, I have been boating for 4 years and head to Ark all the time. I have always skipped this section because it seemed like a dud from a WW perspective. I did not realize there was something like this on this section, albeit I had never investigated it, which I would have prior to boating here. I have the old AHRA booklet on river sections and there is very little mention of this or Frog Rock and the dangers they pose to otherwise relatively mild sections of river. Looks like in the version they published recently, these are both called out much more significantly, in RED. Doubt it would have saved this situation from occurring, but glad they have this emphasized better now. Much better emphasis on areas of safety concern in recent brochure.


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## lmyers (Jun 10, 2008)

2 more fatal accidents over last few days. Both private boaters. One incident occurred at Pine Creek and the other was on the Milk Run below Fisherman's Bridge. 

Stay safe out there folks. Use the proper gear and boat within your abilities....and look out for each other on the water.

Condolences to the families and friends of the victims.


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## whip (Oct 23, 2003)

Perhaps a solar panel, battery and flashing red light with illumination light for the warning signs?


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## Schutzie (Feb 5, 2013)

A quick story.

I had been a commercial guide for 6 years, including a Grand Canyon trip and a Cat high water trip. No flips, no injuries, no problems.

I built a cataraft......probably one of the first 10 to exist. It was 20' long, 26" tubes. I built the frame out of aluminum and wood, and on a nice spring day decided to check it out on the South Platte. We ran it over dead dog damn by the power plant. The three of us were wearing life jackets, everyone was an experienced guide, probably a combined total of 15 years experience. In other words, we knew what we were about, we had the proper equipment, and we were on a sissy river; the idea was to see how the new rig would float and handle, and how it would handle a bit of rough water.

Dead Dog damn is about 5' high with a small maytag at the base of the dam. I had been over much bigger, more dangerous damns before, notably on the Green river. The South Platte that day was low, this was before runoff had begun. I'd guess the main channel was no more than 3' deep.

In other words, a maiden voyage aimed at seeing how the rig would float, not much more than that. Certainly, not looking for adventure or a stress test.

The boat promptly came apart in the maytag at the foot of the damn. 

I was a competent guide, never said anything about a competent engineer. 

The maytag at the base of the damn quite simply kicked our collective asses.

For the first time, I was seriously concerned. It seemed no matter what I tried, I could not get loose. The other two guides were having the same problem; we were getting soundly thrashed. I probably rolled 5 or 6 times, being dragged down the face of the damn each time, with no chance to get a breath of air in between.

Finally in desperation one of us tried to stand up, and managed to get the other two to stand up. Turns out, the water was knee deep at the foot of the damn. We made it to shore, recovered the tubes and most of the frame, and made our way home to tend to our multiple scrapes and and humiliation.

The mutual agreement was that we got our asses kicked, we were surprised we got our asses kicked, and maybe I needed to rethink the frame for this rig.

The point is, all this nonsense about what woulda shoulda coulda been is just that; nonsense. Until we know the facts, and until we been in similar circumstances the mission should be to offer condolences, realize that "but for the grace of the River Gods............

And try to learn from others' mistakes.

Cmon people, you haven't ever done something dumbass before, or something that had an unexpected twist that could have turned into a tragedy but for dumb luck?


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## dirtbagkayaker (Oct 29, 2008)

gunnerman said:


> but rafting in the dark is just plain stupid.
> 
> .


 Damn, that is the best time to be on the water. Full moon up high. avoid the crowds.


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## lmyers (Jun 10, 2008)

From the Salida Mountain Mail:


Lowhead dam to remain
Dam is ‘valuable’ asset to Shavano Fish Hatchery
Posted: Friday, July 18, 2014 8:55 am | Updated: 10:03 am, Fri Jul 18, 2014.
Allison Dyer Bluemel, Mail Intern | 0 comments
Following internal discussion within Colorado Parks and Wildlife, officials indicated the lowhead dam north of Salida will remain a feature of the river at this time because of the value of the water rights to the Mount Shavano Fish Hatchery.
Arkansas Headwaters Recreation Area Park Manager Rob White and Mount Shavano Fish Hatchery Manager Matt Schehrer said officials decided the dam, built in 1956 and renovated in 1988, is a valuable asset to the fish hatchery’s future and protects a valuable water right.


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## thinksnow (Aug 21, 2013)

whip said:


> Perhaps a solar panel, battery and flashing red light with illumination light for the warning signs?


I like this idea too. Could have made a differance.


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## denali1322 (Jun 3, 2013)

thinksnow said:


> I like this idea too. Could have made a differance.


 
If this cost of all that is low, I would agree it is worth the spend. However, let's not forget this individual chose to boat at night on a river he did not know. Let's keep in mind personal accountability here as, at the very least, a contributing factor.


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## benpetri (Jul 2, 2004)

I've only run this section once, and it was awhile ago, but I do remember being somewhat surprised at the boat chute. I can't remember how it was marked with signs, but still I think I floated up expecting something different.

Just measuring it up on Google Earth now, the Salida boat chute is only about 15 feet wide at the top, while the river is about 150 feet across immediately above the drop, so the boat chute is only about 10% of the width of the river. Comparing to the one in Canon City, the chute there is about 30 feet across and the river is only about 100 feet wide above, so the chute is 30% of the width of the river. Furthermore, the entrance of the chute at Salida is upstream of the lip of the dam by about 90 feet, while the Canon City dam has the entrance right at the lip. In short, I can see how someone might mistakenly miss the entrance if they float up on the dam expecting something more like the Canon City chute. 

There is nothing wrong with the chute itself. Its an easy move and is easily navigable but you do need to recognize the entrance. As it is currently configured, it sort of looks like a diversion canal, which might be why some blow it. Other dams (confluence park for example) sometimes use a line of floating buoys above the dam to sort of "funnel" river traffic into the chute and it seems that something like that might help here. 

Floating at night is certainly a more risky proposition, but even in broad daylight there are some issues with this dam that might merit better markings.


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## wildh2onriver (Jul 21, 2009)

Good post, thanks for the info.


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## thinksnow (Aug 21, 2013)

Great detail on your % of damn sizes. I live in Salida and run that streach all summer long with my family. I can see the enterance being mistaken posibly as a diversion outlet... the enterance is tight for a 14' boat. I also like the idea of a floating buoys line or some type of marker to funnel traffic into the spillway. OR JUST TAKE THE DAMN THING OUT ESPECIALLY SINCE IT'S NOT BEING USED. If it saves one more life it is well worth the cost.


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## Phil U. (Feb 7, 2009)

denali1322 said:


> However, let's not forget this individual chose to boat at night on a river he did not know. Let's keep in mind personal accountability here as, at the very least, a contributing factor.


This is not accurate information. It would be awesome if we could all remember that we lost a fellow river rat and that a lot of people are hurting over this. Of course, uninformed judgment of others can feel good I spose...


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## Id725 (Nov 22, 2003)

A sign with FLASHING RED LIGHTS AT NIGHT?
Come on, seriously.
Perhaps we also should hang green signs above the river every 1/2 mile too, saying things like
"Number One - 3/4 mile
Scout eddy 1/4 mile left."

Maybe we could put stop lights at every major rapid in Browns for those crowded days.
An HOV lane? Perhaps a toll lane...

It's a whitewater river.
It doesn't need any damn lights at night.
Boat at your own risk.


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## Skikbum66 (Apr 5, 2014)

As stated before! The signage starts at Iona's bridge. One mile above the dam. Lights don't make a lot of sense. 8 months of the year they would be a waste.


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