# Contaminated Waste Water - Animas



## rockmonkey

Animas River fouled by 1 million gallons in contaminated mine water - The Denver Post

Just posted a few minutes ago; it says it'll arrive in Durango in a few hours.

"The EPA recommends that recreational users of the Animas River avoid contact with or use of the river until the pulse of mine water passes," - San Juan Basin Health Department


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## Tyrrache

Disgusting.


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## Issip

*Fish Kill*

That plume won't be stopping in Durango, what a disaster. I hope there are still Native fish to protect in the San Juan after this, otherwise they'll just run the San Juan dry during irrigation season...

On the bright side it would have cost a lot of money to clean all that wastewater but now it's just been dumped in to the river for free.


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## mattman

Wow, sounds like the EPA inadvertantly released this contaminated water while investigating the abandoned mine, thats messed up, wonder what exactly they were doing that released it.


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## soggy_tortillas

Thick, radiant orange? That's awful. Probably too short of a time frame, but they could try to temporarily divert it and try to siphon it out before it contaminates too much... Sort of like when they divert the river to install a bridge or a culvert...


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## Tyrrache

Going to be very interesting to find out what the EPA did, it's not like someone was walking on the earthen dam and it collapsed. Will this flow unhindered into Powell? Worse time for it to as there isn't much to dilute it....


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## Bonker

Tyrrache said:


> Going to be very interesting to find out what the EPA did, it's not like someone was walking on the earthen dam and it collapsed. Will this flow unhindered into Powell? Worse time for it to as there isn't much to dilute it....


According to the article, they were investigating contamination with heavy machinery and disturbed(my word) some unconsolidated debris that was holding the contaminants back. Sounds like an accident...


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## yesimapirate

If the map in the article is accurate, this came out right by Silverton Mtn ski area. I've seen that drainage in late July a couple times. The stream was murky yellow/orange.


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## mania

Animas River closed to public


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## mikepart

I would expect burec to start dumping water out of Navajo to dilute it as it hits the San Juan.

Does any one in the area have any info on the state of things? Are dead fish visible yet?


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## dugger

*orange sludge*

So when the EPA is responsible for an "unexpected" train wreck who gets fined?


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## jbolson

The fish and wildlife


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## okieboater

If any other organization dumped this killer stuff in a major river, the EPA and talking heads would take that organization down. Plus enormous fines.

My bet is the EPA will get a pass on this and zero people will get penalized for this screw up. Local paper reports but will the major news outlets do the same.

Big time double standard here.


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## teletoes

Who does this? Crazy!

From Denver Post article


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## sjnovak3

FYI we increased Navajo's release this morning, in hopes of diluting the water as it hits the San Juan and pushing the plume downstream faster. It's a coordinated effort between Reclamation and the SJRIP (FWS). The release will go up to 1300 by 11am today, and will remain at this level at least through the weekend. There were many factors that went into making this rapid response decision, at this level and at this timing. I pasted the press release below. 

Susan

---
Susan Novak Behery, P.E.
Hydraulic Engineer
Reclamation
Western Colorado Area Office
Durango, CO
[email protected]
970-385-6560

BUREAU OF RECLAMATION
NAVAJO RESERVOIR RELEASES

SENT VIA FAX AND E-MAIL
August 6, 2015



As a result of a recent mine waste accident occurring high in the Animas River Basin, the Bureau of Reclamation has scheduled an increase in the release from Navajo Reservoir from 650 to 1,300 cubic feet per second (cfs) on Friday, August 7, beginning at 7:00 a.m. as requested by the San Juan River Basin Recovery Implementation Program. This release will occur in 2-hour increments, reaching 1,300 cfs by 11:00 am. This release will be ramped back down to 650 cfs on Monday, August 10th, beginning at 7:00 a.m. 

Releases are made for the authorized purposes of the Navajo Unit, and to attempt to maintain a target base flow through the endangered fish critical habitat reach of the San Juan River (Farmington to Lake Powell).

The San Juan River Basin Recovery Implementation Program recommends a target base flow of between 500 cfs and 1,000 cfs through the critical habitat area. The target base flow is calculated as the weekly average of gaged flows throughout the critical habitat area. 

This scheduled release change is subject to changes in river flows and weather conditions. If you have any questions, please contact Susan Behery at 970-385-6560 or [email protected].


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## BReds

Side by side.


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## duct tape

This is just tragic news for one of my favorite rivers. Hopefully it will wash out, maybe a few really big monsoon rains would help....

Any sign of fish kill yet, can't imagine anything would survive that?


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## stuntsheriff

curious how this will affect trips currently on the San Juan. 


Sent from my iPhone using Mountain Buzz


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## restrac2000

okieboater said:


> If any other organization dumped this killer stuff in a major river, the EPA and talking heads would take that organization down. Plus enormous fines.
> 
> My bet is the EPA will get a pass on this and zero people will get penalized for this screw up. Local paper reports but will the major news outlets do the same.
> 
> Big time double standard here.


Its already hit the national news circuit from NPR to HuffPo; I heard it on my local NPR channel today. 

No way the EPA is going to walk away from this unscathed and I bet at least a couple people will loose their jobs over the incompetent move, even though it was accidental. I support consequences for personnel and agencies in these situations but any calls for fines at the agency level will just be counterproductive.

That said, I also think it exposes the problems of the extraction industry and how easy it has been for them to walk away from their problems in the past. There is also an article about how Silverton residents have fought tooth and nail to prevent SuperFund designation because of how it would affect their image and tourism. If Superfund status would have happened more money and personnel would have been allocated to deal with the plethora of abandoned mines in that area long ago. 

Phillip


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## restrac2000

duct tape said:


> This is just tragic news for one of my favorite rivers. Hopefully it will wash out, maybe a few really big monsoon rains would help....
> 
> Any sign of fish kill yet, can't imagine anything would survive that?


Yeah, that is way too much pollution to not affect aquatic invertebrates and fish. That stretch of river won't be the same for years to come. What a horrible situation.

Phillip


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## Andy H.

Here's the AW press release on the spill:

Colorado Mine Accident Closes Animas River

Apparently Cement Creek and the Animas below Silverton were already pretty dead due to the chronic problems with the mine drainage there.


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## Floatin mucho

The fishing in Durango below Smelter Rapid on the Animas is gold medal water for trout I believe. Or was...


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## DoStep

This happened in Leadville back in about 1984, the Arkansas ran that color all the way to Pueblo Res. EPA stepped in and hello Superfund Site. 30 years later the AHRA was 'awarded' gold medal status. Not sure how long it took to get a viable fishery going again, but things seemed ok when I started boating in Brown's shortly after the incident. The lead and especially the zinc in the sludge had the most significant impact on the fishery, as they are very hard on the bugs, thus reducing the food supply for the fish. Will have to wait and see what's exactly in that slug of orange water, but I'd guess it will be a couple years of diminished water quality at the least. Here's hoping for a little luck with what contaminants are involved.


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## Tyrrache

The solution to pollution... Here's hoping for a heavy snowpack in the San Juan's this winter


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## Hunderman

Here's a good summary including EPA's fact sheet providing background, need, and anticipated results of the (failed) project. To sum up: Silverton had long battled superfund designation fearing negative impacts on it's tourist economy. EPA and Silverton agreed to avoid superfund designation contingent on cleanup of the mines (that have been increasingly leaking into the river). EPA was going to plug a different mine and, aware that such actions would affect the nearby mines, began taking actions to replace the Golden King mine's "unconsolidated debri" (aka not concreted loose dirt and rocks) plug with a permanent one that could be used to measure impacts of the project. They expected water to be behind the plug, but not 12' high and under pressure. Once the plug was compromised there was no stopping the hydrostatic head. This would've happened on it's own had the plug not been bothered. It's Incredibly unfortunate they hadn't been prepared for such a scenario. The river is... it's bad right now. Hopefully this is the last straw and Silverton will get its deserved designation and large scale cleanup of ALL the dirty mines will get going.


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## Hunderman

http://www.kunc.org/post/why-was-environmental-protection-agency-messing-mine-above-silverton


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## paulster

okieboater said:


> If any other organization dumped this killer stuff in a major river, the EPA and talking heads would take that organization down. Plus enormous fines.
> 
> My bet is the EPA will get a pass on this and zero people will get penalized for this screw up. Local paper reports but will the major news outlets do the same.
> 
> Big time double standard here.


Actually, if a large energy or mining company did this, they'd have a small fine assessed, appeal that, and never actually pay it.....


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## Issip

*Native Fish*

Thanks Hunderman, it seemed incredible at first, but given how it happened it all makes sense. 

I haven't seen any news on fish kill, the Ph drop seemed pretty severe to me, but I'm not a wildlife biologist so I have no idea what Ph fish can tolerate. The native fish can generally handle some silt (although the Dolores recently saw a huge fish kill from just normal flashflood runoff silt).

Normally I am against dilution as the solution to pollution. In general we've filled up the planet such that concentrations are building everywhere and there's no more room for dilution, however in this case I think releasing water from Navajo is the best chance for the native species in the lower San Juan to survive and I'm glad to see the quick response.

I hope they are working overtime - they may need to start working on an emergency fish recovery before the plume reaches Shiprock or this little mess could end some species. Best of luck to the speckled dice, bluehead sucker and speckled chub and/or whatever's left of the fish that existed before the dams.

I'm also curious if they're going to close the San Juan permit sections... anyone launching this weekend?


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## ppine

*Waste release*

This is an unfortunate accident. I am a retired environmental consultant and worked on mining projects throughout my career. Most of the issues with mines are from those that were mined pre-law, before the 1970s as they were largely unregulated. Since that time, there are lots of laws on the books to control environmental degradation. It takes about 40-50 permits in place in order to legally move any earth. Mining companies are required to put up large bonds to ensure that they are in compliance.

Extractive industries like mining and logging supply our economy with raw materials, that people use every day. They supply important jobs in rural economies. We are fortunate to have a society that emphasizes environmental quality.

The Animas R will recover quickly. Most of the visible color in the river is from suspended sediment. The residence time of the pulse of contaminated water can be measured in hours, maybe a couple of days. It is being diluted with increased flows from Navajo Res. The river and the aquatic life that depends on it are likely to recover quickly.


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## DES

As one of the kayakers in the photo published by the Durango Herald, and now in the national spotlight, I have to say its quite disturbing when reaching the take out to hear from a photographer that you just paddled through toxic acid mine release. The 3 of us launched into Baker's Box (Pandora's box) thinking the discoloration was from a heavy rain event near Silverton. Its not that unusual for the river to discolor during such times, or heavy runoff. I'm going to be pissed if I don't get spiderman powers out of this one...


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## Andy H.

Des,

I just heard from a geochemist friend that does lots of mine environmental cleanup consulting work. Good news for you and anyone else that was in the river that day - she says that it's unlikely touching the water ("dermal contact") is an issue. She also said the passage below "sounds about right" so I'm kind of proud of the post below that I hammered out in a post to the GCPBA's FB page the other night describing the basic fate and transport geochemistry of the metals in the river.

So here's a bit about the contaminants and what we can expect to happen to them. 



> I'm just shooting from the hip here from what I know about mine drainage and heavy metals in water. Generally speaking the contaminants are going to be a lot of heavy metals (As, Cr, Cu, Cd, Ni, Mn, Se, Fe, Pb, etc.) dissolved in the water. These typically aren't a big exposure threat via skin contact but are bad to drink. The dissolved iron will oxidize very rapidly and precipitate, forming coatings on the bed gravel and fine particles (flocculent) in the water. The precipitated iron oxide that's created (rust, basically) causes the orange color of the water shown. The other dissolved metals in the water will tend to fix (adsorb) to the iron oxide particles which will then tend to either settle out on the bottom of the river along the way. A lot will still travel in suspension just like the clay/silt/sand does during runoff. What's still in suspension at the lake will settle out when it joins the still water of the reservoir.
> 
> Next spring when the flush hits, the high water will mobilize a lot of the iron oxide particles (with the heavy metals still adsorbed to them) that settled on the bottom of the river in eddies and on the bottom and send most of it downstream to Lake Powell. The only practical or possible response here (this horse is out of the barn and can't be stopped) will be to shut water intakes and diversions and let it continue past to Lake Powell where it'll settle out and become buried by more sediment next year, along with all the other toxic sediment that's been washed into the lake over the decades. How to clean up that entire mess there (if it's in dangerous concentrations) is another big and expensive question completely... On the bright side, I suspect Mercury is probably not a significant contaminant as the water was from the mineshaft and not a processing mill dump where it would have been used to separate the gold out from the ore.


I'm a geologist and really don't know much about what the effects will be on the river biota, however apparently the upper reaches were already pretty dead because of the metals draining from the all the abandoned mines in the district around Silverton. If any stream biologists out there want to weigh in, that would be great and we could all learn something.

After reading some articles and comments elsewhere, here's something folks also should keep in mind. My understanding is that the EPA had tried for a decade or two to get in there and clean up the abandoned and mine sites, however the local government(s) had prevented them from doing this under Superfund which would have accelerated the work and also brought a lot more funding to address the problems there. While it's easy to blame "government bureaucrats" and "incompetent government workers" for what happened, they were likely doing the best they could with much more limited resources than what they really needed. I've seen a lot of finger pointing and armchair quarterbacking elsewhere on the webs. If the people of Silverton had allowed Superfund designation when the EPA first proposed it, it's likely a much better funded and more comprehensive cleanup would be well underway by now and this may have never happened. We'll never know what exactly might have happened, and we can speculate all we want, but if folks want to second guess the EPA and blame them for this, there's plenty of blame to go around once you get past the knee-jerk reaction and start digging into the history.

As for a "big-time double standard," the EPA screwed up, and owned up to their mistake immediately, warning folks all up and down the river to shut their intakes and stay our of the water. This mistake happened in the effort to clean up a poisonous mess that had been left behind by miners years ago ripping gold out of the earth with no regard to downstream impacts. It's not like the EPA was operating the mine for profit and cutting corners left and right. And cutting their funding will just mean less money in their budget to clean up other messes around the country, including the one in Silverton that had already killed parts of Cement Creek and the Animas.

-AH


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## gmmccalden

Andy H. said:


> Des,
> 
> 
> After reading some articles and comments elsewhere, here's something folks also should keep in mind. My understanding is that the EPA had tried for a decade or two to get in there and clean up the abandoned and mine sites, however the local government(s) had prevented them from doing this under Superfund which would have accelerated the work and also brought a lot more funding to address the problems there. While it's easy to blame "government bureaucrats" and "incompetent government workers" for what happened, they were likely doing the best they could with much more limited resources than what they really needed. I've seen a lot of finger pointing and armchair quarterbacking elsewhere on the webs. If the people of Silverton had allowed Superfund designation when the EPA first proposed it, it's likely a much better funded and more comprehensive cleanup would be well underway by now and this may have never happened. We'll never know what exactly might have happened, and we can speculate all we want, but if folks want to second guess the EPA and blame them for this, there's plenty of blame to go around once you get past the knee-jerk reaction and start digging into the history.
> 
> -AH


This is on point. And thank you for bringing it up. The town meeting yesterday was full of folks who just wanted to blast away at epa representatives instead of listen to what they were doing and ask relevant questions. While this shows how the community is feeling, it is completely unproductive. It happened, finger pointing gets us nowhere. 

The governor declaring it a state of emergency is a huge. Step in the right direction, but the states and tribes need to be communicating more effectively to be productive.

I was surprised to hear many members of the community were unaware of the state of things up there. "You mean there are more of these things up there!?!" Yeah, take a look around! Cement Creek has been orange for years.


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## Wendell

Andy


I agree that we engage on too much second guessing. But the known potential for water impoundment in old mine works and proximity to the Cement Creek and Animas River watersheds requires a level of diligence and exploration that was not taken. Similar floods have occurred in the district (Sunnyside Mine 6/4/1978). As investigators, we would want to put a couple of holes into the aquifer, which are the mine adits, and test for pressure, quality, and quantity. 
Contrary to popular opinion, ANY plan regarding the opening of sealed mine works by a private firm requires extensive regulatory approval thru MSHA, DRMS, EPA, BLM, USFS, USFW in this particular case, and likely county approvals too. IF any NEPA was done, those regulatory agencies would have had to review, require changes as necessary, and provide written approval. A process that takes one to several years with WEG and others litigating every step.
We will learn in the next several weeks how this went down at the Gold King. 


Wendell


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## yesimapirate

Andy, 

After reading your geochemist friend's words, I dug up a picture from that creek beside silverton ski area from 2010. You can clearly see the oxidized sediment she speaks about. It doesn't appear to be a huge flow, but this would confirm her theory.


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## Myka

All the people blaming the EPA are saps plain and simple. Epa was attempting to fix a problem created by the state of Colorado. The political twist tied to the economy was obviously more important than the environment. They turned down superfund status in an attempt to not seem as if there was a problem. Colorados version of th wizard from Oz is a better description...


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## readNrun

Recent article here.

Estimates are now up to 3 million gallons.


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## ziaec

The river people of the Arkansas Valley send their deepest sympathy to all our friends in Durango and the Animas River corridor.


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## Wavester

It seems the NIMBY's in Silverton have fought the EPA in its attempt to clean up this site for years. Although the EPA made a huge mistake here people worried about the bottom line seem to have some responsibility in making the EPA's job more difficult. I think this is one of the better written articles.
Why Was The Environmental Protection Agency Messing With A Mine Above Silverton? | KUNC


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## hullflyer

I would put the blame squarely on the San Juan County Commissioners who have battled the Superfund designation to get the mine runoff corrected and mitigated and those commissioners didn't want the Superfund designation (and Stigma) in Silverton to cause harm to the tourist economy there, which is essentially the only source of income for that town. So in their shortsighted greed for tourist dollars the SJC Commissioners office refused the Federal Gov't help and we now know what that result was and will continue to be until there is a lot more resources thrown at this problem.


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## Canada

*I'm a bit jadded on this subject. (So call me a Sap)*

Members of a prescribed burn team from the national parks lit a burn during a high wind advisory in Los Alamos and burned down large segments of the town. The only ramification for the decision was an early retirement with full federal benefits. (And yes, I irrationally place blame for the untimely death of my blind grandfather on this event and him being forced out of his home to an unfamiliar environment)

At what point does the negligence of a government worker become criminal? There has been toxic sediment going downstream from those mines for as at least a hundred years, and I know the river will correct itself, but damn this is one big screw up. I look forward to the investigation of the facts from the source and hope it wasn't something as dumb as not drilling a hole with a rock hammer through the plug before taking a backhoe to it and tearing it out.

I wish all of you downstream well.


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## ppine

*Animas R update*

Thanks to Andy for an excellent post. 
I used to live in Colorado but that was a long time ago. The mine in question closed in 1923 according to a recent article. The volume of discharge of the contaminated water appears to be larger than anticipated, and the dilution will taker longer than first expected. That is bad news for the macro-invertebrates and fish in the system.

The EPA really screwed up obviously, but the old mines are sometimes in a precarious state of affairs. Old earthen dams used to hold waste water and mine dumps, and tailings were not held to any standard when they were constructed and can fail at any time.

If there is anything positive about this event, it would be that we have learned a lot as a society since the early days of mining and now do a much better job of taking care of the environment. Old mine sites are some of the worst to clean up.


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## Wavester

There's a big push by republicans to close down the EPA, they will use this major screw up to make their case. You hate to see ammo given to a group who consistently fight against clean water and air.
However I predict some EPA heads to roll on this one.



Canada said:


> Members of a prescribed burn team from the national parks lit a burn during a high wind advisory in Los Alamos and burned down large segments of the town. The only ramification for the decision was an early retirement with full federal benefits. (And yes, I irrationally place blame for the untimely death of my blind grandfather on this event and him being forced out of his home to an unfamiliar environment)
> 
> At what point does the negligence of a government worker become criminal? There has been toxic sediment going downstream from those mines for as at least a hundred years, and I know the river will correct itself, but damn this is one big screw up. I look forward to the investigation of the facts from the source and hope it wasn't something as dumb as not drilling a hole with a rock hammer through the plug before taking a backhoe to it and tearing it out.
> 
> I wish all of you downstream well.


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## catwoman

Hi everyone,

I thought I would pass along the official EPA incident response page. There is a lot of information, photos, etc., on this page.

Site Profile

Also, the long term work the EPA has performed, and been planning (plugging the Red and Bonita adits), that lead to this release is discussed here:
Upper Animas Mining District | Region 8 | US EPA

While the release is terrible, please keep in mind that the EPA was working to prevent this very thing from happening. They didn't create the threat, it existed beforehand and they were trying to manage it. This wasn't something the EPA went into lightly. They have been involved with this site since the 1990's. Also, rest assured, that under CERCLA they will be responsible for remediation. They may even be held accountable for damages to the community that go beyond the environmental realm in court.

Some people are going to accuse me of working for the EPA; I don't. I used to be a river guide on the Animas, which has a special spot in my heart.


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## catwoman

Wendell said:


> Andy
> 
> 
> I agree that we engage on too much second guessing. But the known potential for water impoundment in old mine works and proximity to the Cement Creek and Animas River watersheds requires a level of diligence and exploration that was not taken. Similar floods have occurred in the district (Sunnyside Mine 6/4/1978). As investigators, we would want to put a couple of holes into the aquifer, which are the mine adits, and test for pressure, quality, and quantity.
> Contrary to popular opinion, ANY plan regarding the opening of sealed mine works by a private firm requires extensive regulatory approval thru MSHA, DRMS, EPA, BLM, USFS, USFW in this particular case, and likely county approvals too. IF any NEPA was done, those regulatory agencies would have had to review, require changes as necessary, and provide written approval. A process that takes one to several years with WEG and others litigating every step.
> We will learn in the next several weeks how this went down at the Gold King.
> 
> 
> Wendell


 Wendall,
I have been pondering the due diligence too. I wonder how many holes were drilled to determine water levels, at what spacing intervals, and how the holes related to known geologic structure. Pure speculation leads me to think that a collapse deeper in the tunnels had blocked flow and wasn't captured by the groundwater characterization. My guess is that this collapse gave way while work was being performed.


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## okieboater

Wavester said "However I predict some EPA heads to roll on this one."

I would be willing to bet no one in the EPA bureaucracy get fired over this. In the current administration, look at what is going on in the VA, IRS, Secretary of State office, previous Justice Department and I am sure there are others that are either telling lies or blowing tax payer money. Plenty of people doing bad things and getting away with it. Zero accountability in Washington DC in my opinion.


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## mvhyde

*Hmmmm well....*

If the Republicans had been in office, everyone would want their heads physically chopped off. But since this is the Oblama administration, I am more than quite sure there will be nothing done about it at all. F-ing sick of this POS EPA. They need to be all sacked and restructured and de-fanged. They are useless tools who make arbitrary rules and since when are these twatters experts on mines? I believe that lies within the purvey of USGS and Reclamation.


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## Tyrrache

Wavester said:


> There's a big push by republicans to close down the EPA, they will use this major screw up to make their case. You hate to see ammo given to a group who consistently fight against clean water and air.
> However I predict some EPA heads to roll on this one.


Front page Foxnews.com today: 'They're not going to get away with this': Anger mounts at EPA over mining spill | Fox News

True Fair and Balanced Fox Reporting, Not saying CNN or MSNBC are any better but proves the point quoted so well. 

Andy H's post was amazing (nothing new there). Looking at aerial pictures (google maps) you can see the Iron Oxide running off all those mountains. As much as I am not a fan of government overreach that area NEEDS Superfund status. 

I see another thread on MB asking what the buzz is for and this thread is the truest example in my mind. We (the buzz) learned about this disaster before the plume even hit the Animas thanks to the OP. The has been one of the best threads I have read on any forum and hopefully this "mistake" will help raise the awareness needed to clean up our rivers.


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## catwoman

Great article.

When our river turned orange — High Country News


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## hullflyer

This is the government agency in charge of Mine reclamation in Colorado. http://mining.state.co.us/Pages/Home.aspx


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## pepejohns

The HCN article posted by catwoman is a good summary of the history of wrangling between State and Federal authorities as to a solution for the Silverton area. 

Obviously the EPA screwed up, but they did not cause this pollution in the first case, and using this as an impetus for further "de-fanging" them will only lead to worse problems in the future. 

Second, for those jumping on the Fox News "kill the EPA" bandwagon, keep in mind that there are many "good samaritans" out there that would love to purchase and clean up abandoned mine sites on their own dollar, but the current federal laws would not allow this without a ridiculous amounts of permits and approvals, making it economically unfeasible. When the idea of a "good samaritan" law streamlining these types of operations has been proposed, Republicans/anti-EPA folks in Congress have been eager to use it as a way to completely gut the Clean Water Act, so the law has never been actually proposed. 

Doesn't it seem ironic that the party of "personal responsibility" is ok with operators creating this kind of pollution and then simply walking away and leaving the American taxpayers to clean up the mess? Many of our business and corporate laws in this country are designed to allow people to escape liability for these actions. I guess personal responsibility and corporate responsibility are two different things... 

I don't work for the EPA, and I don't have a personal stake in this; I just hate seeing tragedies like this used for short-sighted political victories that do nothing to address the real problem.


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## catwoman

With respect to loss of income and employment:


*Claims process*
A claims process exists for compensating citizens who suffer personal injury or property damage caused by U.S. government actions. The process is available in the EPA’s regulations at 40 CFR Part 10, and includes guidance on documentation that may be required to support claims for loss of employment and loss of income, among other claims.
Claims for monetary compensation may be filed by submitting a Standard Form 95 specifying the nature of the loss suffered and the EPA actions, if known, causing the loss or damage to property, to either of the following contacts:

Richard Feldman
Claims Officer
U.S. EPA Office of General Counsel
1200 Pennsylvania Avenue, NW (MC 2399A)
Washington, D.C. 20460

Michael Nelson
U.S. EPA Region 8 Office of Regional Counsel
1595 Wynkoop Street (MC 8RC)
Denver, CO 80202

Alternatively, claimants may submit signed electronic versions of Standard Form 95 to the EPA for the Gold King Mine Release via e-mail at [email protected] beginning Tuesday, August 11, 2015.

The fillable PDF version of Standard Form 95 is available here (PDF).


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## mania

stuntsheriff said:


> curious how this will affect trips currently on the San Juan.


I called the BLM and they said we highly recommend you don't launch - well duh. I asked for a refund given the circumstances even though there is a no refund policy within 30 days of a launch date. They said they would get back to me. Then the called me back and said I might be find since my launch is Friday and they thought the orange stuff might be past Bluff by Wednesday. What? no thanks. I still want a refund. 

There is still no notifications on their website. They have had all day to update it. Talk about lack of communication. I mean heck the Navajo Nation closed the river and La Plata county closed the river until at least aug 17. If everyone around you up and downstream are closing the water they need to make a decision and take some actions.


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## Wavester

Except in both the IRS and VA screw up you mentioned people did in fact get fired. The person in charge of the IRS office involved was fired and the director of the VA was replaced. 
Probably wasn't covered on fox news though.
Not trying to defend the EPA at all, I just think this screw up is too big for someone directly involved not to get fired. 




okieboater said:


> Wavester said "However I predict some EPA heads to roll on this one."
> 
> I would be willing to bet no one in the EPA bureaucracy get fired over this. In the current administration, look at what is going on in the VA, IRS, Secretary of State office, previous Justice Department and I am sure there are others that are either telling lies or blowing tax payer money. Plenty of people doing bad things and getting away with it. Zero accountability in Washington DC in my opinion.


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## STD*

Floatin mucho said:


> The fishing in Durango below Smelter Rapid on the Animas is gold medal water for trout I believe. Or was...



Don't you mean gold metal water ? 


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## jmacn

Can't help but think the epic runoff we had this year played into this situation. Such a terrible thing to see...


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## mr. compassionate

restrac2000 said:


> Its already hit the national news circuit from NPR to HuffPo; I heard it on my local NPR channel today.
> 
> No way the EPA is going to walk away from this unscathed and I bet at least a couple people will loose their jobs over the incompetent move, even though it was accidental. I support consequences for personnel and agencies in these situations but any calls for fines at the agency level will just be counterproductive.
> 
> That said, I also think it exposes the problems of the extraction industry and how easy it has been for them to walk away from their problems in the past. There is also an article about how Silverton residents have fought tooth and nail to prevent SuperFund designation because of how it would affect their image and tourism. If Superfund status would have happened more money and personnel would have been allocated to deal with the plethora of abandoned mines in that area long ago.
> 
> Phillip


You're on crack if you think anyone will be punished. No one in govt ever is! Just look at Lois Lerner, Doug Schulman and the rest of the IRS hacks who should spend 20 plus years in prison-all still have a job. Ditto for the VA, our fucking government is unaccountable and ruining this great country.


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## 2kanzam

Interesting (but very sad) to see this play out in another state.

Many people posting here sound just like your average West Virginian. They blame the people trying to fix this stuff (i.e. the EPA and/or your state enviro agency)and fight them tooth and nail in proposing pollution limits by villifying said environmental regulation as "job killers". Anything really, involving the State or Federal government is met with contempt when we are the people trying to help fix issues that are remnants of the pre-mining regulation era (pre-70's) OR left by companies claiming bankruptcy and reneging on responsibilities such as pensions, benefits and remediation projects.

Meanwhile, the extractive industries (who are to blame) continue flattening mountains, filling streams with rock and sediment and creating AMD/heavy metal point source discharges while all of you are pointing the finger at "big bad gubbiment" tryin to take take away your jobs and energy independence.

*Well keep it up and you too will be a state like WV where mineral, oil and gas rights mean more than the people and land itself*. Where it is ok to degrade a stream deemed "high quality water" up to 30% in the name of industry. Where streams run orange (like this) and have so for decades. Where kids, when given the option and crayons, draw streams in yellow, orange and red because that is what they know (they really do this). 

Perhaps most of you are too young to have spent anytime on the lower Cheat in WV when most of not all tribs used to run that color and were dead? These are streams where trout used to thrive...and many are still stained that way and still devoid of life. 

*The EPA and state enviro agancies are not the problem here. It's everyone fighting them...it is some of you.*


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## mr. compassionate

Wavester said:


> Except in both the IRS and VA screw up you mentioned people did in fact get fired. The person in charge of the IRS office involved was fired and the director of the VA was replaced.
> Probably wasn't covered on fox news though.
> Not trying to defend the EPA at all, I just think this screw up is too big for someone directly involved not to get fired.


 I would love to see details on this. Director of VA may have been replaced but guarantee with a golden parachute, that's not being fired.

Lois Lerner is still on paid leave. Please let me know the name of the person who was fired-probably low level fall guy. Bet you can't give me further info....


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## sjnovak3

I apologize if this link was already posted, but the Utah DWQ has a website they are updating with their WQ testing information on a daily basis. They don't give specific recommendations for recreation, but it may be of use to those making a decision about a trip, especially as this evolves.

Utah DEQ: Gold King Mine Release

Susan

---
Susan Novak Behery, P.E.
Hydraulic Engineer
Reclamation
Western Colorado Area Office
Durango, CO
[email protected]
970-385-6560


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## CoBoater

mr. compassionate said:


> I would love to see details on this. Director of VA may have been replaced but guarantee with a golden parachute, that's not being fired.
> 
> Lois Lerner is still on paid leave. Please let me know the name of the person who was fired-probably low level fall guy. Bet you can't give me further info....


blah, blah, blah, mr. c. all that shitstorm obscured the fact that a lot of the tax-exempt non-profit groups were actually engaged in political activities that should have been investigated and for which they should have been denied tax exempt status. but hey its the age of koch brothers and citizens united. we've got the best democracy money can buy thanks to mr charlie's tools like you


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## mr. compassionate

Wavester said:


> Except in both the IRS and VA screw up you mentioned people did in fact get fired. The person in charge of the IRS office involved was fired and the director of the VA was replaced.
> Probably wasn't covered on fox news though.
> Not trying to defend the EPA at all, I just think this screw up is too big for someone directly involved not to get fired.


 Wavester, Fox News didn 't report the Shinseke's VA firing because it never happened! He resigned telling Obama "the va needs new leadership, I can't fix the problem". Hmm, wasn't even forced to retire-Obama should have fired to set an example. I know the VA did change a law right after this allowing staffers to be fired. Laughable that prior to then it was against the law to fire them! Still waiting on you to show facts on the IRS supposed firing .

Before you open up your fat mouth with incorrect fact ala Donald Trump maybe you should shut the piehole.


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## restrac2000

sjnovak3 said:


> I apologize if this link was already posted, but the Utah DWQ has a website they are updating with their WQ testing information on a daily basis. They don't give specific recommendations for recreation, but it may be of use to those making a decision about a trip, especially as this evolves.
> 
> Utah DEQ: Gold King Mine Release
> 
> Susan
> 
> ---
> Susan Novak Behery, P.E.
> Hydraulic Engineer
> Reclamation
> Western Colorado Area Office
> Durango, CO
> [email protected]
> 970-385-6560


Thanks again for taking the time to keep us informed and up to date, Susan.

Pleasantly shocked to hear that testing had shown limited fish kill. Its good to be wrong sometimes.

Phillip


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## storm11

Just spoke with the San Juan River Office. They WILL be offering refunds for trips that are cancelled this week (at least).


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## mania

storm11 said:


> Just spoke with the San Juan River Office. They WILL be offering refunds for trips that are cancelled this week (at least).


Thanks Matt!


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## okieboater

EPA won't face fines for polluting rivers with orange muck - Washington Times

According to the Washington Times, EPA will not be fined. Seems like all of these bureaucrats are protected from the fines they levy on others. Now lets see who in the EPA gets fired, time off or keeps on doing what they do for the pay they get.


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## catwoman

While I think it is obvious that the EPA is unlikely to be fined, they (we-the taxpayers) will be accountable for cleanup and other costs associated with this mess. They (we) may also be sued by the Southern Ute Tribe for damages. They (we) will also be accountable for loss of income. This is an example of the road to hell being paved with good intentions.


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## restrac2000

Fining private enterprise makes sense as it allocates monies for cleanup by either the gov't or contractors. Fining the agency in charge of that process is counterproductive ad it makes the reclamation more difficult, thiugh that seems to be the historical goal of some third party instigators. 

Heads should roll, professionally speaking, and likely will 
Considering the bipartisan outrage. Just maybe not as fast as political opportunist desire in the warmup to a contentious 2016 election cycle. 

Sadly its already obvious entrenched folks are going to make this more aboutbpolitical grandstanding than solving the very real pronlem. 

Phillip


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## elkhaven

Fine the EPA? - That makes no sense. Who would do it? as it is the EPA answers only to Congress - what would we do, take money out of the EPA's budget or better yet out of their fine pool? Where would it go? That money is dedicated one way or another to cleaning up these very messes. (yes, I know there will be conspiracy theories about people getting rich from the EPA...) It's not like the EPA is a for profit business, it's a govt agency. For christsakes the public sits around bitching about how much money they waste and now folks are actually proposing that they purposely waste more? Ludicrous! Holy shit, I'm simply amazed at the notion!


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## catwoman

Navajo Nation has announced it intends to pursue immediate legal action.


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## craven_morhead

Adventure Journal has a nice writeup.


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## Andy H.

*Mine Tunnel Blowouts*

Wow, some of the toxicity in the bleachers rivals what's in the river. I gotta wonder what the point of fining the EPA would be. Maybe take money away from the group that was working on the Gold King cleanup, so then they'd be forced to try to do the same job, even more safely, with less money to do it with? Doesn't sound very sensible to me, but then there's not much sense in spite and malice. 

I just happened to be talking with a former colleague who worked on the Argo Tunnel cleanup. He once worked for the EPA contractor that designed and built the water treatment plant that cleans up ~250 gpm of water draining from that tunnel. Now fish can live in Clear Creek. He was saying that back in the 50s or 60s, the Argo tunnel blew out with enough pressure that, according to newspaper accounts, the jet of water blasting out of the shaft extended across Clear Creek, and the metals-laden killed killed fish all the way downstream to Arvada. According to this story, the Argo Tunnel was 12 feet wide at the mouth. Just did a search on it and didn't find anything from that period but did find a reference to this:



> In 1985, a surge of contaminated water from the Yak Tunnel near Leadville killed aquatic life for 60 miles in the Arkansas River, and a 1943 blowout at the Argo tunnel near Idaho Springs killed four workers...


Interesting note on the Leadville tunnel discharge that is probably the same alluded to above in this thread. My colleague was probably thinking of the 1943 blowout at Argo. 

Hopefully the Gold King blow out won't be as bad as either of these. At least no one was killed.

Something else that occurred to me is that with the stigma of Superfund designation, also come restrictions on lending (banks aren't thrilled to loan money to buy property in a Superfund site) and other activities. So it's natural for communities to work to avoid the designation. I once spent years working on a site where the host city implemented a special tax district (TIF) to head up the cleanup rather than have EPA designate a Superfund site there. 

-AH


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## Canada

The designation as a superfund site triggers a response level that may be unattractive to the community. While I only have a law school basic knowledge, I seem to remember stories of dirt removal versus capping and a lot of options that were opened by avoiding super fund status. In one case the community was able to avoid years of truckloads of dirt through the town and a projection of deaths associated with the accidents with those trucks. So, the root cause can be things other than greed.


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## restrac2000

Canada said:


> The designation as a superfund site triggers a response level that may be unattractive to the community. While I only have a law school basic knowledge, I seem to remember stories of dirt removal versus capping and a lot of options that were opened by avoiding super fund status. In one case the community was able to avoid years of truckloads of dirt through the town and a projection of deaths associated with the accidents with those trucks. So, the root cause can be things other than greed.


But those other root causes require due diligence to address the existing problem; avoidance is not a valid solution though it often triggers the Superfund classification. The regional powers that be have known this was an issue for decades and had plenty of time to come up with alternatives.

I am all for private or local remediation. It should be Plan A. But it wasn't. And sadly decades of neglicence conspired with some type of poor action on the part of the EPA to flood our rivers with 3 million gallons of material yet to be fully identified. Luckily initial reports indicate the biota faired resonably well; lets hope that continues to be broadly true. Hopefully the toxins of concern will abate and human use can resume sooner than later.

Watching the links with a curious eye.

Phillip


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## COcfs

*I'm Confused*

If 1,000,000 gallons equals 133,680 cfs. Why wasn't there a bigger bump? 

Also- why not drain Lake Knighthorse to help with the dilution?


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## mikepart

COcfs said:


> If 1,000,000 gallons equals 133,680 cfs. Why wasn't there a bigger bump?
> 
> Also- why not drain Lake Knighthorse to help with the dilution?



CFS are units of flow. Gallons are units of volume. You can convert cubic feet to gallons, but you can't convert cubic feet per second to gallons.

If you add a unit of time to the measurement of gallons, then it becomes a measure of flow. I.e gallons per second.

A gallon is equal to 0.133680 cubic feet, therefore, for a 133,680 cfs bump, the entire discharge from the mine (3 million gallons) would have had to go past the gauge in just 3 seconds.


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## okieboater

What is interesting to me is the spin techniques used to quantify the cause and amount of damage this spill is or will create down stream. Next is who is responsible and what should happen to them. 

Spin example that I read is only one fish in a tank in the river has died so far stands out as an example used of how much damage has happened. Makes for a good news release but I question if it is much of a long term indication of damage.

What worries me the most is the long term effect this spill will have on people, plants and animals who have to drink this water. Interesting to me will be the Navaho Nation's response. My bet is a lot of their people and life stock have no other water source for drinking. I bet those raft and fishing guides down stream of the spill think this spill is a lot more serious than the general public.


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## restrac2000

Navajo Nation is already taking action as they are claiming loss of water at a critical time for crops, if I remember correctly their elected official said blue corn in particular. Not sure if they brought up other long term complaints.

Per the 1 fish....its not simple spin when you run a quick field study to quantify effects. Granted its not statistically valid (n=1) but it is still usable and telling about the initial effects. The fish would have likely shown more immediate kill considering the sensitivity of their gills. Plants and invertebrates will likely need longer study considering the way the precipitates are predicted to affect the river bed, especially in eddies. I don't think anyone would argue a net benefit from the release but its definitely not as bad as initially feared from a short term ecological perspective. 

Phillip


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## Bonker

okieboater said:


> What is interesting to me is the spin techniques used to quantify the cause and amount of damage this spill is or will create down stream. Next is who is responsible and what should happen to them.
> 
> Spin example that I read is only one fish in a tank in the river has died so far stands out as an example used of how much damage has happened. Makes for a good news release but I question if it is much of a long term indication of damage.
> 
> What worries me the most is the long term effect this spill will have on people, plants and animals who have to drink this water. Interesting to me will be the Navaho Nation's response. My bet is a lot of their people and life stock have no other water source for drinking. I bet those raft and fishing guides down stream of the spill think this spill is a lot more serious than the general public.


FYI, none of the test fish died from the plume.

"In the absence of scientific data, the agency wanted to see if the fish would survive the polluted waters. Biologists checked on the three cages several times a day. *With the exception of one that died immediately from unrelated causes*, all the fish survived, said Joe Lewandowski, spokesman for Colorado Parks and Wildlife."

The Durango Herald 08/11/2015 | Test fish removed from Animas River


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## okieboater

Thanks for the news link.

In two weeks, the newspaper stated test results will be available. That will be interesting.

It will also be interesting to see test results form Navaho Nation and State of New Mexico.


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## restrac2000

Thx for sharing. Sounds like it was set up differently than i thought i read a few days ago. Could be n of 3 which would make more sense for statistical analysis. Sounds like they are studying alot more than initial fish kill. Don't know enough myself about water chemistry to know how any of the toxic metals would bioaccumulate in trout yearlings. I assume they believe the trout have consumed enough of the affected invertebrates to have developed any health affects hence why they concluded the survey. 

Will be interesting to see what the toxicity study of the fish shows. I am guessing the state of Utah has a DNR team collecting fish samples on the Juan as well considering its a vital corridor for sensitive and endangered species. 

Phillip


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## elkhaven

COcfs said:


> If 1,000,000 gallons equals 133,680 cfs. Why wasn't there a bigger bump?
> 
> Also- why not drain Lake Knighthorse to help with the dilution?


So, I think you're misunderstanding was covered well by others - but the graph got me thinking.... 

First off, I don't want to belittle this event in any way, but in reality 3,000,000 gallons is not very much water in the grand scheme of things. For example; looking at this river at 500 gpm (roughly the average around the time of the spill) 3M gallons flow past the gauging station every 13 minutes. If you average the 3M gallons over the length of the discharge (2 days, looking at the bump) it comes to approximately 1040 gpm or 2.3 cfs. I'm sure that most of the flow came out in the first pressurized plug and this is simplistic math but it might behoove folks to think about the scale of the issue as well. In reality, this discharge in comparison with the ongoing discharge noted by others above is a drop in the bucket. 

Actually I'll present an example (maybe 2). A 1 cfs leak (I imagine that's a feasible number given the discussion on nearby streams noted above) will result in 31,540,000 cubic feet of discharge or 235 million gallons per year. A leak as small as 5 gallons per minute (that's your garden hose) equates to 2.6 milion gallons per year. I bet there's lots of garden hoses leaking out of mines up there...

As for dilution - I hope my examples show that it's already there - plus at this point a massive discharge would only chase the contamination down river - yes it might mobilize some of the contaminated sediment and flush it down prior to next years runoff but would that be worth the cost to other users?


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## Juan De Confluence

*A video with some perspective*

Here is a cool video that shows a mine reclamation project in the neighborhood. This producer has a number of youtube documentaries that address the long term impacts of mining in the area.

As elkhaven and others have suggested, the Animas has suffered from years of dispersed, non point source acid mine drainage. This accident just highlights the extent of the problem. Hopefully this will lead to increased efforts to mitigate these old mines.


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## catwoman

Elkhaven, 
With respect to the feasibleness of your 1 CFS estimate, you are pretty correct. Cement Creek abandoned mines (American Tunnel/Sunnyside, Red and Bonita, Gold King, and Mogul) combined annual flow average was approximately 1.3 CFS in 2011. Although it is important to keep in mind that the American and Mogul have bulkheads to block/slow the flow, ultimately pushing water out the higher adits, namely the Gold King, as the "bathtub" behind the plugs fills.


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## elkhaven

catwoman said:


> Elkhaven,
> With respect to the feasibleness of your 1 CFS estimate, you are pretty correct. Cement Creek abandoned mines (American Tunnel/Sunnyside, Red and Bonita, Gold King, and Mogul) combined annual flow average was approximately 1.3 CFS in 2011. Although it is important to keep in mind that the American and Mogul have bulkheads to block/slow the flow, ultimately pushing water out the higher adits, namely the Gold King, as the "bathtub" behind the plugs fills.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Mountain Buzz


Good thing this wasn't in the American or Mogul then. ... I wonder what volume might be behind plugged bulkheads? 

I usually like being right but not this time...


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## catwoman

http://blog.yourwatercolorado.org/2015/08/10/the-orange-animas/


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## zbaird

Fish are way more tolerant to heavy metals than the bugs are. They live, you just don't want to eat them. The short term fish kill studies dont say much. I mean its great that the fish aren't dying right now but what about the bugs. The bugs are what is important for sustained fish numbers and we wont really know about any of this for some time. 

Are they doing any bug retrieval/studies alongside the fish traps?

Any fisherman been down to the river to look at hatches or lack there of?


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## Wavester

Three people lost their job in 2013 at the IRS or resigned. Same outcome. As far as names try using your Google Box genius. Apparently a lot of people were fired at the VA including the resignation of the director.

VA says it is firing 4 senior officials - CNNPolitics.com

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IRS_targeting_controversy#Resignations



mr. compassionate said:


> I would love to see details on this. Director of VA may have been replaced but guarantee with a golden parachute, that's not being fired.
> 
> Lois Lerner is still on paid leave. Please let me know the name of the person who was fired-probably low level fall guy. Bet you can't give me further info....


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## ppine

*Animas R*

The EPA has wanted to turn this mine site into a Superfund site for years, but resistance from the San Juan Co Comm has prevented it. Now we have theories about the EPA moving the plug in the old earthen dam on purpose.

I am a retired environmental consultant and worked on mine sites my whole career as a hydrologist. The benthic macro invertebrates (bugs) are an excellent gauge of long term water quality. We used to sample the bottom sediment and literally have some grad student from CSU key out the bugs and count them. Monitoring of water quality is obviously going to be very important going forward. The potential threat to humans, livestock, and wildlife from ingesting river water will diminish rapidly over time. Measuring the constituents is the best way to evaluate the public health threat.


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## ppine

Update. The worst is over. The river is now suitable for human contact, livestock use, and irrigation with a few exceptions. It is not suitable for use as drinking water yet. The recovery of the system will continue.


The situation on the Animas R should be a wake up call for anyone that lives near old mine leftovers, especially before the 1970s. Newer mines are managed much differently and should not be put in the same category as the old mines.


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