# Can My Little Brother Handle the Grand Canyon?



## boatshredder (Jul 25, 2013)

When I got my grand canyon acceptance letter, the first person I thought about was taking along my little brother. We haven't spent much time together over the past few years and I thought this would be a great way for us to spend some quality time together. Now that I'm thinking about it more, I'm skeptical on taking him.

My brother doesn't have much camping experience. If he does, its probably a handful of car camping trips. He's also never been rafting. As a pretty well versed outdoorsman myself, I was pretty exhausted and ready for home after my first 5 day raft trip. Thinking in the best interest of my brother, I wonder how he will do on an 18 day grand trip....

Do I have any veteran boaters out there willing to shed some experience down to me? Can anybody share some stories?


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## briandburns (Jan 12, 2010)

Humans are very adaptable. If he wants to go, do it!


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## ccombs (Mar 17, 2004)

Treat him like anyone else you would be introducing to that enviornment and rafting. Take him on a short trip like 3 days on Ruby and West Water and give him a taste before your Grand trip and let him decide if 18 days plus travel sounds like fun.


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## restrac2000 (Mar 6, 2008)

How old is your little brother? What shape is he in? Does he enjoy car camping (which is pretty much what raft camping is)? How does he handle being dirty, sandy and hot most of the time? Etc, etc, etc. 

Beyond him I would consider the others you are inviting and how they will adapt to a relative newbie. Most river folks are more than welcoming to such people. But it also depends on what you want to the trip experience to be about.

Is it possible.....most definitely! Should you? You know him better than anyone else. The Grand and most multi-day river trips can be great experiences for folks if they know what the are getting into. Also know (depending on age) that he can always hike in or out at Phantom if the entire 18 days is just too much for him. Its not a 50/50 split on length but it does give some options. Rafting lends itself to providing a myriad of conveniences to compensate for many needs and desires.

And the trip is spectacular and life changing. 

Phillip


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## Learch (Jul 12, 2010)

I think the sum of the group will have a great impact on wether you will have success in taking him or not. If you have a group that otherwise is known to be self sufficient, and you have a good relationship with your brother, I'd invite him. 
If you need every person in their group to pull their own weight, and your relationship is strained, I probably wouldn't. It could jeopardize the relationships you have built with the rest of your group, if they end up viewing him as a liability. 
You have to remember, bad things can happen on any trip, and he needs to be able to respond and help. We had two broaches with our gear barge and witnessed two medivac rescues (both from guided trips) and the private trip that launched after us had a multitude of flips with the smallest raft in their group. 
I've heard of some married couples getting so mad at one another that one of them almost walked out at Phantom ranch. I'm not a brother, but I could see a sketchy relationship with a family member get tested also. 
Those are things to think about. Honestly, it's a once in a lifetime trip for most of us, so you would be offering him a gift that he wouldn't be able to fully appreciate until your feet hit the ground at the end. I went when I was 16, and I am about to turn 35. I am just starting to think applying for myself. (My Dad applies for the middle fork every year, and I get nervous and excited when the drawing comes up. No luck yet!) 
It is a once in a lifetime trip, and stories will be made either way.


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## Learch (Jul 12, 2010)

restrac2000 said:


> How old is your little brother? What shape is he in? Does he enjoy car camping (which is pretty much what raft camping is)? How does he handle being dirty, sandy and hot most of the time? Etc, etc, etc.
> 
> Beyond him I would consider the others you are inviting and how they will adapt to a relative newbie. Most river folks are more than welcoming to such people. But it also depends on what you want to the trip experience to be about.
> 
> ...


Very well said.


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## cataraftgirl (Jun 5, 2009)

boatshredder said:


> When I got my grand canyon acceptance letter, the first person I thought about was taking along my little brother. We haven't spent much time together over the past few years and I thought this would be a great way for us to spend some quality time together.


If you and your brother haven't spent much time together this could go either way.....great bonding time, and wonderful experience....or trip from hell, with you guys never speaking again. When is your GC trip? Can you get him on a river for a weekend to see how he likes it and how he responds to the demands that wilderness travel brings? Maybe invite him and a few of your friends to see how he does and how the vibe is with your friends. I haven't done a GC trip (yet), but I've done a lot of 1-2 week trips, and I know that a good group dynamic is key to a successful trip. If your GC group are folks who are happy, helpful, and like to share their love of the river with others it will go a long way to making his trip a good one. We've taken lots of newbies on week long trips, and 95% have absolutely loved it, and can't wait to go again. The 5% who weren't totally loving it still had a good time, and were fun to have along.


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## okieboater (Oct 19, 2004)

Some one mentioned Ruby Horsethief and Westwater Canyon. A great way to introduce your brother to raft based camping and a taste of rapids as well. You can easily make this into a 3 or even 4 day trip. Make decisions after that.

My take on the Grand Canyon is most of the time it treats newbies very well on the water with the big issues being living in sand, hot sun and wind for an extended period of time. On the other hand I have seen the Grand Canyon even to experienced boaters turn what should have been easy thing to do into life threatening. Don't get me wrong here, the GC is magical and if there is a natural DisneyLand type wonderful place, GC might be it. Unlike DisneyLand if something does go wrong help may not be as fast as a 911 call to the local fire department at home. But, help is usually there if the trip is prepared for it.

I hope you two can make the trip as any GC trip will be talked about for many many years between you two.


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## treemanji (Jan 23, 2011)

I would take him on a pre trip trip, 18 days is a long time for someone's first trip with limited outdoor or boating experience. 18 days is also a long time to be with someone that might not know what to expect and be 100% up for such a journey.


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## richp (Feb 27, 2005)

Hi,

Lots of variables here, but Treemanji said it in a nutshell. 

Do some shorter trial runs to size up his adapatability to the physical conditions, and then let him tell you how he feels about fitting into the river/camp routines. 

FWIW.

Rich Phillips


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## carvedog (May 11, 2005)

We need some details man. Cough them up. 

When??? 

As far as being tired after 5 days. That is usually about when I hit my stride or stroke as it were. My Grand trip was 21 days and I didn't want to stop. It seemed like the group was working like a well oiled machine after about 10 days and it got easier. Also you become conditioned to it physically. Some people from my trip were sooooo ready for civilization - I couldn't have cared less. I was used to bucket baths and a fine layer of dirt on everything. It was awesome. Also if that was your first thought then I would trust your intuition. 

Also he would likely be a passenger and while the trip can be demanding if not used to camping, it is much easier as a passenger than a boatman. Not sure what your role was on the 5 day trip you describe but as a passenger naps are more possible and you just don't have the mental and physical pressure to perform. 

There is a really funny guide to preparing for the Grand but I can't find it right now. Will keep looking.


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## David L (Feb 13, 2004)

Him having some days when he can sit on other people's boats might be a good thing. Then you sit at camp with a beer and swap stories of the day.


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## GameOn (May 14, 2009)

*Best time with my brother...*

It was Memorial Day weekend a couple of years ago. Heading to the Yampa River, 20k+ flows, rain and snow predicted. He shows up from South Carolina with T-shirts (cotton) and shorts only. We had enough gear to outfit him correctly. All those things that make one nervous were happening...leaving gear bags and dry boxes open to the elements, not drying wet gear, fussy diet, etc. We got rain and snow and cold (hands down the worst weather on any trip I've ever been on) and the guy had the time of his life. He was a boating, hiking, camping mad man.

So the things I remember (we are both 40+):
- Making him wear my old spandex pants. Paybacks for sure. (Started the trip with this for the blackmail picture.)
- Buying a ton of cold meat and cereal so he wouldn't starve if he didn't like the river menu. When we hit the take out, he hadn't touched any of it. He tried everything.
- Running up and down the mountains. He came back once with this sheepish look and told me he had tripped and had fallen in the cactus, could I pull the thorns out of his leg and butt.
- Coldest weather ever and not one complaint...not one. Just a big grin.
- He drank all my beer first (Tecate)...and left me the Bud Light.
- Waking me up in the middle of the night to borrow my toothbrush because he couldn't find his. I did find his the next morning in the groover lid....in a zip lock...but still. 
- At the takeout, declaring to everyone that the next trip he was going to row his own boat.

Now he's asking if we've got permits for next summer yet and how old do the kids need to be to go...watch out, you may unleash a monster. (And yes, I had the best time sharing part of my life with him.)


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## DocDC (Aug 18, 2010)

I took my older brother and we had the greatest time together. He's 8 years older and we only became true brothers and friends in adulthood; the Grand trip was an awesome part of that. He had recently had back surgery and was a bit clumsy the first couple days and he couldn't do all the hikes but I pushed hard for him to do Matkat and he did a great job. We exchanged life stories as if we just met because there hadn't been much overlap. After 16 days he still expressed wonder, gratitude and deep appreciation-for the Canyon, for my taking him, and for our friendship. I wouldn't trade it for anything.


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## liquidphoto (Oct 22, 2010)

A few people that have posted on this thread have reminded me of two great trips in my life.
1st trip, I took 2 of my nieces 11yrs and 16yrs old down the Green river 2 years ago at a post dam record flow of 42K. It was 8 days on the water. Neither had been camping. Neither had spent more than 5-7 days away from their parents. Neither had ever been on a raft or anything other than their dads 15' fishing boat. Neither had ever been out of the state of Texas or really strayed to much further than between Ft Worth and San Antonio, (Sea World) Other than one time to Ark. to visit an Aunt. The older of the 2 girls was, and still is, a girlie girl with all of a typical 16 year old ideas for a girl of that age (very neat, a lil gossipie, does nails, hair very important, thinks alot of what others think of her ect.) Sense they really never had been out of their somewhat shell, I decided to leave 7 days early and show them some of the greatest things the West has to offer! After I picked them up in Ft Worth we headed to Grand Canyon (South rim Desert View camp ground) for 3 days. Never dipped below the rim but they go to see pretty much all of the south rim. They where completely blown away. Unable to fathom the size of just one canyon among hundreds with in the main canyon. We even got to celabrate the younger nieces 12th birthday at El Tovar @ South Rim Village! Then it was off to Moab UT. On the way we took the off the beaten path drive. Moab of course grabbed their attention in a different way but still loved it! After Moab and the area for 24 hours, we met up with our group in Green River UT. the next day. Then launched on our 8 day rafting trip a day after that. Other than the misquitos at the put in at Deso Grey (which sucked ass for me rigging my boat) that was the only negative thing on our entire trip! The younger of the two, is a lot more of a tom boy than her sister, by a long shot! Both of them had a trip of a life time and want to go again! With all the animals that area has to offer, they saw it! 4 bears (2 of them cubs) rattle snake, rams, eagle, on and on! They still talk about it. I think that was awesome taking them both. They will be able to reflect on that trip together forever. 
My friends thanked me for bringing them on the trip many times. They said they had a hoot watching them just experience every thing from seeing the beaches to the rapids the animals, very old native art, hikes and of course night Bocce ball! 
The time is now Jan 2013, I was invited on a 18 day GC trip with a permit holder out of CO. to launch late May. A family trip. The TL had a daughter almost same age, seemed like a perfect fit. The older niece couldn't make this trip because of the typical list of things a young adult (17 years old about to be 18) has in her life at that time with high school coming to an end, work, new wheels, boys, and collage about to start. So, it is late May and my younger niece is jumping up and down w/ glee at Lee's ferry! Just 2 years prior she was standing at South Rim Village seeing it for the 1st time and now gets to run the best of the West and has heard many stories of this epic place and what it has to offer! A little nervous, but ready to launch as my passenger on my 18' boat. She only new me, and met one of my best friends that kayaked it as the 3 of us drove out to Flagstaff AZ. All the other people where all new faces for the 3 of us. I don't think she got tired of it or bored for one second? Every day was just more action and a new unbelievable adventure! Lots of animals that time of year! The people on that trip where fantastic. Everybody gelled well. When we where standing at our take out at Peirce Ferry on day 18, she said "Uncle B, when can we come back"?!! 
I'm quite sure she will have rivers in her sight for many years to come. 

As everybody is different, you never know what the out come will be? 
If he goes, post up and let the Buzzards hear about it. 
Where all just wishing we where on the trip anyway.
Cheers, Uncle B


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## sarahkonamojo (May 20, 2004)

Took my little sister down about 10 years ago, right before she started having kids (4!) We are 13 years apart in age.
She hiked out at Phantom to return to work.
Being the stupid older sister, I had a slight history of getting her into places that were a bit dicey. It was stressful. It was a lot of work to make sure it would happen. But it was all a lot of work. I was TL taking a lot (3) non-boater, first timers.
I was in a kayak for the first part of the trip. She jumped in different rafts. She rowed Grapevine. She hiked out on her own. It was an amazing achievement for her.
Luckily, the ugly raft flip happened at Horn.
So glad we made it happen. She had a great time. I had a great time. We are still sisters and good friends. And I have some amazing nieces and nephews.


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## Phil U. (Feb 7, 2009)

Thanks for that "Uncle B". You are to be commended. You and the rio have changed a couple lives for the better. How cool is that?

To the OP. I say make it happen if you possibly can. The potential upside is worth a lot of effort IMHO.


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## Canyonlover (Nov 27, 2013)

I just recently went on an 18 day trip on the Grand this June with my uncle and i was only 13.. it was fantastic! i had a blast, i dont know how old your brother is but i think he would have a great time. Trip of a lifetime. I hope to go again! I saw a group of kayakers from New Zealand on my trip who were a family. They had a 7 year old daughter and she was kayaking!!


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## Canyonlover (Nov 27, 2013)

haha in fact, that's my Uncle B lol


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## H2Obug (Oct 20, 2006)

My brother had never been on an overnight river trip, but he had a great time on our Grand trip. The only problem we had was that I gave some of our beers away to other people, we ran out at the end of the trip, and we reverted back to the old days with a fight over lack of beer. It was one of the best trips I've been on. I wish we could do lots more trips together, but now he's married, has 3 kids, lives on the East coast with an over-bearing, shopping-for-a-hobby-type wife and the odds of getting him on a river trip again are pretty damn slim.


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## titsikama (Mar 22, 2006)

I don't know how old your brother is, but I took my kids when they were 10 and 12. Of course I was VERY nervous about taking them for the same reasons you probably are with your brother-mainly their safety and can they handle the camping for that long? Granted my kids had many river miles and nights before then-but 21 nights? (we did a March trip). I am so glad we did it-it was remarkable bonding time and the canyon is indescribable. Like you, I am ready for a good shower and a good bed by the 5th or 6th night on a river trip, but really life on the canyon became just that life. My family was so into the routine the days just went by. So here is my advice-take your brother, but be prepared as you can to lessen any danger and have him as comfortable as he can. For us that was Dry Suits all the around (remember it was a March trip), good sleeping gear, advanced swimming lessons for the kids and rescue training for us, and a great small group of people. I am confident he will thank you forever!


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## catwoman (Jun 22, 2009)

Invite him. Tell him the deal and let him decide.


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