# River Etiquette



## Chico (Apr 18, 2017)

Hi all, I'm fairly new to the whitewater community and I'd love to hear the communities thoughts on river etiquette. My general impression so far is very positive. Give space help people out and be friendly. Kayakers and rafters seem to compliment each other on the river with their capabilities. There doesn't appear to be any negative undertones. I'd also like to hear stories of interaction between private and commercial boaters. Looking forward to your comments and etiquette suggestions/unwritten rules of the river. 


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## shappattack (Jul 17, 2008)

Seams like the old golden rule is all you need to follow.

Also, about 10 years ago, a friend and I were on a 1 boat trip down the lower Salmon. When we hit lake Snake, it was getting late and we were looking for a camp. We passed an outfitter cooking dinner. They hailed us over and asked where we were going to camp that night, then offered us to camp with them. Long story short, they fed us and gave us all the booze we could drink, though we did the dishes. it was their last night on the river and they lost some custies at Pitsburg Landing (unexpectedly) and had more food and booze than they knew what to do with. It was a great party night, their custies were fun to hang with, and we had a big drunken sumo/pugalisttic match with dry bags filled with soft goods, among other shenanigans. I rate this experience as gold standard etiquette. One of the single best river nights I ever had.


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## Andy H. (Oct 13, 2003)

Chico,

Welcome to the Buzz! Like Shap says, the Golden Rule is where it all starts. There are lots of other things and if you do a search on the topic, you'll find lots of stuff to read on it.

Here's a good discussion to check out.

Enjoy!

-AH


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## CSHolt (Jun 4, 2011)

This is awesome!!! I love hearing stories like this!




shappattack said:


> Seams like the old golden rule is all you need to follow.
> 
> Also, about 10 years ago, a friend and I were on a 1 boat trip down the lower Salmon. When we hit lake Snake, it was getting late and we were looking for a camp. We passed an outfitter cooking dinner. They hailed us over and asked where we were going to camp that night, then offered us to camp with them. Long story short, they fed us and gave us all the booze we could drink, though we did the dishes. it was their last night on the river and they lost some custies at Pitsburg Landing (unexpectedly) and had more food and booze than they knew what to do with. It was a great party night, their custies were fun to hang with, and we had a big drunken sumo/pugalisttic match with dry bags filled with soft goods, among other shenanigans. I rate this experience as gold standard etiquette. One of the single best river nights I ever had.


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## shappattack (Jul 17, 2008)

Everyone likes pictures to go with a story



shappattack said:


> Seams like the old golden rule is all you need to follow.
> 
> Also, about 10 years ago, a friend and I were on a 1 boat trip down the lower Salmon. When we hit lake Snake, it was getting late and we were looking for a camp. We passed an outfitter cooking dinner. They hailed us over and asked where we were going to camp that night, then offered us to camp with them. Long story short, they fed us and gave us all the booze we could drink, though we did the dishes. it was their last night on the river and they lost some custies at Pitsburg Landing (unexpectedly) and had more food and booze than they knew what to do with. It was a great party night, their custies were fun to hang with, and we had a big drunken sumo/pugalisttic match with dry bags filled with soft goods, among other shenanigans. I rate this experience as gold standard etiquette. One of the single best river nights I ever had.


Oblivious to the knowledge of the golden good times that lay ahead as we approached lake Snake:



















The outfitter and guides' shall remain nameless to protect the guilty.


















The debauchery as it ensued:


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## duct tape (Aug 25, 2009)

Good story and pics. Thx.


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## Chico (Apr 18, 2017)

Thanks for your replies. Great stuff. Just as I suspected. You are my people. Looking forward to fun days ahead. 


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## DoubleYouEss (Oct 4, 2011)

Don't suck.


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## shappattack (Jul 17, 2008)

*poor etiquette*

Another story from the same lower salmon trip, only about poor etiquette, but with good luck it turns out. 

On our first night we stayed at the put in at Hammer Creek and rigged our boat. The neighbors in the camp site next to us were from Winthrop, WA and had donated a trip to an auction for a river stewardship organization. They were awaiting the auction winners for launch the next morning when we also were intending to launch. They appeared very friendly. We had a 3 gallon jug of margaritas freshly made and shared with them profusely. We had a fun party with them all evening, thought we had made some new friends. We launched early and said good bye to them seemingly on great terms with plesentries exchanged all round and in ample supply. 

We fished slowly down the river for bass and the group from Winthrop passed us by at some point. Along about 4:30pm we started looking hard for a camp site, before we reached Cougar Canyon. Once in Cougar Canyon there is little chance for a camp site for another fairly slow 5 miles, so we were looking hard. There are 2 huge campsites on river right just upstream of the start of Cougar Canyon (packers creek and killer goat camps). Just before we get to these 2 huge camps the weather gets super duper shit balls, hail, rain, heavy wind and as we roll up on to those 2 huge sites, the Winthrop folks have just landed at the upper camp and are just getting unloaded. They have about 5 boats total, not a huge group and you could easily camp an army at their site alone. So we think great, we are going to snatch up the lower site. As we start rowing to the lower site in the shit balls storm, one of the guys that was most friendly from the party night before starts running down the beach and waving us off. We thought to our selves, what the hell is going on. We get to the bank and he yells to us that they are using both sites in a stern voice, mind you while it is hailing and raining like hell, reminder - we only have 1 boat and 2 peeps total. 

We say nothing to this a-hole and proceed into cougar canyon expecting a long hard float to the next possible camp. But Karma kicked in and about 1/2 a mile right around the bend was a sweet small sand beach on river left. 2007 was a real low water year and it was so low that this small little beach was exposed for our taking, and I would imagine rarely ever available due to higher normal base flow. Normal median daily flow that time of year is well over 4500 cfs and it was about 3200 cfs on the Whitebird gage that day. The beach was just about big enough for a couple tents and a tarp in the tight little rocky-cliffy canyon. And a great camp it was. Actually glad for the Winthrop folks poor etiquette, cause the camp was sweet and was an excellent bass fishing hole. We never saw the Winthrop folks again the rest of the trip.

landing at the small beach just inside cougar canyon during the storm:











after the storm had cleared that evening:


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## Soup76 (Aug 19, 2009)

Good stuff Shap!

We had a similar experience on the Rogue a few years back. A few miles below Paradise there is a long camp on river right about the size of a footballfield.When we come around the corner wesee three boats parked at the top and 4 or 5 people total.It just a buddy and I (two boats) and we pull down to the very bottom of the camp where there is another very small beach.We park and check it out and noticed that one of the campers had parked a tent all the way down to the very bottom of the camp right by where we wanted to rest. We basically say fuck it, its hot out and we were done for the day. We’re sitting on our boats drinking a beer when a 3rd group rolls up and parks in the middle of the camp. A couple guys get out and start scouting tent spots.One of them strolls up to us and tries to scold us for being too spread out of our camp. We haven’t unloaded a thing from our boats and he is talking about the tent that the other group had set up above us. We basically laughed and just point upstream, politely letting him know that it’s not ours and that we think it’s the groups above us, but we are not certain. The two of them stomp up the beach to confront the other group.We can’t hear anything but we can see that thebody language isn’t very friendly by either group. Next thing we know there’s half naked (T-shirt,no shorts) man cursing and throwing shit out of the tent.He packed his stuff back up the beach. I’ll have to look up what camp that is. It might be upper Tacoma….


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## carvedog (May 11, 2005)

shappattack said:


> ...and we had a big drunken sumo/pugalisttic match with dry bags filled with soft goods, among other shenanigans. I rate this experience as gold standard etiquette. One of the single best river nights I ever had.


We played a similar game that was called 'Breakthrough and Conquer'. Soft drybags worn the same way but with goals about 20 feet behind each person. Some rough stuff with my crew. I think we all ended up bloodied. Maybe we need bigger drybags or more padding.


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## mattman (Jan 30, 2015)

Know I know why 90% of river accidents happen within 10' of shore!!
River games.


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## fajawiebe (Sep 9, 2016)

Soup76 said:


> Good stuff Shap!
> 
> We had a similar experience on the Rogue a few years back. A few miles below Paradise there is a long camp on river right about the size of a footballfield.When we come around the corner wesee three boats parked at the top and 4 or 5 people total.It just a buddy and I (two boats) and we pull down to the very bottom of the camp where there is another very small beach.We park and check it out and noticed that one of the campers had parked a tent all the way down to the very bottom of the camp right by where we wanted to rest. We basically say fuck it, its hot out and we were done for the day. We’re sitting on our boats drinking a beer when a 3rd group rolls up and parks in the middle of the camp. A couple guys get out and start scouting tent spots.One of them strolls up to us and tries to scold us for being too spread out of our camp. We haven’t unloaded a thing from our boats and he is talking about the tent that the other group had set up above us. We basically laughed and just point upstream, politely letting him know that it’s not ours and that we think it’s the groups above us, but we are not certain. The two of them stomp up the beach to confront the other group.We can’t hear anything but we can see that thebody language isn’t very friendly by either group. Next thing we know there’s half naked (T-shirt,no shorts) man cursing and throwing shit out of the tent.He packed his stuff back up the beach. I’ll have to look up what camp that is. It might be upper Tacoma….


That sounds like Half Moon Bar.


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## Soup76 (Aug 19, 2009)

fajawiebe said:


> That sounds like Half Moon Bar.


I looked at my map last night and I think we were at Upper & Lower Tate, just above flora del. I use the term 'beach' loosely. the camp had some shrubs along the water line but once your past those its a nice, big area. Stayed at the lower camp a few times with smaller groups on our last night.


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## OregonianRG (Jun 14, 2010)

*River ediquette*

People peeves:
People who don't laugh at my jokes.
People who don't let me sit in their chair when it is obviously my comfortable than mine.
People who don't share their ice and or booze with me when they know I have run out of one or both.
Guys who guard their hot girlfriends like a hawk, and won't let me snuggle up to them around the campfire.
People who don't let me pick the best tent site at each camp.
People who bitch about the hot dogs I brought for my group dinner meal.
People who think my voice sucks.
People who think I should carry group gear in my boat. My dry bag is heavy enough.
People who never invite me back on trips.


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