# Suggestions to Increase Forward Momentum on a Cataraft or Raft?



## slamkal (Apr 8, 2009)

Lighter boat, learn to read the river better, and lots of push ups

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## SpeyCatr (Aug 14, 2013)

I'm just waiting for someone to say install a mirror and row backwards lol


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## slamkal (Apr 8, 2009)

Get a hot chick with big boobs and large sunglasses to face you. You wont even notice the sunglasses are totally ineffective.

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## restrac2000 (Mar 6, 2008)

I do seem to notice a difference with quality carbon fiber and fiberglass oars, compared to my old carlisle. The flex they have does seem to provide extra power right near the end of the stroke. 

Using your skeletal structure and not just muscle, i.e. putting your body into it. Learning to use my core muscle strength to keep my body aligned has given me a lot more power over the years. (Its also what helped me realize I have really bad posture in general). Doing both of the above will give your longer oar strokes which can provide more power and are more efficient. 

Rowing catarafts taught me to balance out my strokes (left/right orientation). I had a stronger side like most people and the extra power from the one would throw off my ferry angle = ineffective power. I still have to remember to focus on balance when I get stressed.

Hope that wasn't too redundant with what you already know....looking forward to see if there is anything others contribute that I have missed in the past.

Phillip


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## glenn (May 13, 2009)

Buy a kayak.


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## SpeyCatr (Aug 14, 2013)

glenn said:


> Buy a kayak.



Sounds like a copout!


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## Rich (Sep 14, 2006)

restrac2000 said:


> I do seem to notice a difference with quality carbon fiber and fiberglass oars, compared to my old carlisle. The flex they have does seem to provide extra power right near the end of the stroke.
> 
> *Using your skeletal structure and not just muscle, i.e. putting your body into it. Learning to use my core muscle strength to keep my body aligned has given me a lot more power over the years. (Its also what helped me realize I have really bad posture in general). Doing both of the above will give your longer oar strokes which can provide more power and are more efficient.
> *
> ...


^^^This^^^ Use your whole body, not just your arms.
Have a foot bar that allows you to "lock" your feet in place so you can 
use full lower body power. A strong core allows you to still maintain power by staying in position and in your seat when the boat is not level.

But the best way to increase forward momentum is to pick sections of river with maximum vertical, Dagger Falls, Slaughterhouse Falls, Gore Canyon etc.


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## Whitewater Worthy Equip (Dec 11, 2013)

You can increase the leverage on the oar by sliding it in 6-12". It works best with rope wrapped and stops on your oars. Your handles will overlap. This technique is why you see all the drift boat guys in the NW put their stops at the very top of their rope wraps. I still row on my stops and just slide them in when I need the extra power. It takes a while to get comfortable with using this method but makes a huge difference.


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## BmfnL (May 23, 2009)

Some forward momentum tips:

1. You MUST have lumbar support. Rowing off the top of a cooler with no rolled up paco back there or anything to shove off of is powerless.

2. As you read the water, put those oar blades in the best, forward moving tongues. You will benefit from holding off on a stroke for half a second to avoid putting that blade into a micro-eddy behind a little rock. As I'm driving in toward a feature my oar strokes become separated as each blade seeks to maximize purchase and keep the boat teed up.

3. Experiment with your cockpit. Moving the oar towers a little farther away may favor the shove over the pull, especially if your arms are long. Find a way to tilt your seat forward a few degrees. Place some gear under your seat that your heels can press back against in an alternate shoving stance.

4. Fatter blades are more powerful, but will get more violently tweaked around in hidden currents. It's a tradeoff, but narrow blades will never achieve the same forward momentum as the fatties. With practice feathering the blades can help them escape those chaotic moments that get you thrown out of your seat.


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## Osseous (Jan 13, 2012)

I learned (the hard way) the value of rotating the bow downstream and pulling at an angle to ferry in very powerful, fast moving water. Standard ferry technique got me sucked right into the face of a big wave and I swam.....a lot

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## GC Guide (Apr 10, 2009)

Use locks. Stand up and push leaning the whole body weight on each oar. Takes a lot of practice but very effective. With proper form the oar blades will never leave the water (ie. feather).


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## cataraftgirl (Jun 5, 2009)

Rich said:


> Use your whole body, not just your arms.
> Have a foot bar that allows you to "lock" your feet in place so you can
> use full lower body power. A strong core allows you to still maintain power by staying in position and in your seat when the boat is not level.


+1 on this advice. Try not to let your elbows come behind you on the backstroke. Bring them about halfway, then push forward and lean with your upper body. Use your larger back and core muscles. Bringing your elbows too far back is asking for shoulder problems down the line. Having a good foot bar to brace against and to be able to lock in your toes is important. I always rowed my cat from a seat, so I agree that having a seat to push against is helpful. Now on my raft, I'm rowing from a dry box, with no backrest. I haven't found it to be terrible so far, but I do kind of miss my seat a bit.

One thing no one was mentioned is rowing position on the cat. Most play cat boaters appear to row from a forward position. This is supposed to give the rower a better ability to punch waves/holes/hydraulics etc. As a multi-day cat boater, I always preferred to row from the center. I felt it gave me the best position to pivot from for a push or pull stroke. Seating position is a very personal choice and depends on what kind of cat boating your are doing.


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## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

cataraftgirl said:


> +1 on this advice. Try not to let your elbows come behind you on the backstroke. Bring them about halfway, then push forward and lean with your upper body. Use your larger back and core muscles. Bringing your elbows too far back is asking for shoulder problems down the line. Having a good foot bar to brace against and to be able to lock in your toes is important. I always rowed my cat from a seat, so I agree that having a seat to push against is helpful. Now on my raft, I'm rowing from a dry box, with no backrest. I haven't found it to be terrible so far, but I do kind of miss my seat a bit.
> 
> One thing no one was mentioned is rowing position on the cat. Most play cat boaters appear to row from a forward position. This is supposed to give the rower a better ability to punch waves/holes/hydraulics etc. As a multi-day cat boater, I always preferred to row from the center. I felt it gave me the best position to pivot from for a push or pull stroke. Seating position is a very personal choice and depends on what kind of cat boating your are doing.


+2. Torso does nearly half of the forward stroke and the arms finish it. 

Properly sized (length/position/pivot point) oars, too long and you can't push, too short and no power.


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## whip (Oct 23, 2003)

I vote for reading the water and setting up a good line. I often think three strokes higher upstream can save you 30 or 300 further down.


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## k2andcannoli (Feb 28, 2012)

If you are still rowing your Outcast, I suggest moving your frame forward on the tubes. Speaking from experience, it'll greatly improve the boats ability to punch big holes. My boat will even look a bit front heavy when floating but that makes it catch eddys, surf, and slice through holes much better.


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## carvedog (May 11, 2005)

BmfnL said:


> Some forward momentum tips:
> 
> 1. You MUST have lumbar support. Rowing off the top of a cooler with no rolled up paco back there or anything to shove off of is powerless.


Disagree. Never had lumbar support and my forward stroke is mighty. It all depends on how braced in you are. Lumbar support locks you into rowing off of that 'hinge'. I tend to get my whole body into it. And as GC Guide suggests I stand up a lot, especially on the very big hits. Then instead of hinging off my lumbar I am exploding off of the whole box to the bow in one big extension of my whole body. 

Personally I think seats encourage static rowing. IMHO.


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## elkhaven (Sep 11, 2013)

Osseous said:


> I learned (the hard way) the value of rotating the bow downstream and pulling at an angle to ferry in very powerful, fast moving water. Standard ferry technique got me sucked right into the face of a big wave and I swam.....a lot
> 
> Sent from my SM-N900V using Mountain Buzz mobile app


I thought of your story and the whole push vs pull thread and finally "heard" carvedog yelling at me (even though I've never met him, I swear it was his words I heard...) a few weeks ago when faced with bad line to start kitchen sink: I was sliding sideways into herb's by instinct I was in the process of turning the bow to the rock to backrow when all of this hit me! What I heard was "push you moron, don't pull!" Two pushes and I was online, the rest of the rapid went easy-peasy, had I continued on my turn I'd probably had a much more interesting ride! I actually broke out laughing afterwards, it was a really strange experience. Carvedog, you clairvoyant?


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## carvedog (May 11, 2005)

elkhaven said:


> I thought of your story and the whole push vs pull thread and finally "heard" carvedog yelling at me (even though I've never met him, I swear it was his words I heard...) a few weeks ago when faced with bad line to start kitchen sink: I was sliding sideways into herb's by instinct I was in the process of turning the bow to the rock to backrow when all of this hit me! What I heard was "push you moron, don't pull!" Two pushes and I was online, the rest of the rapid went easy-peasy, had I continued on my turn I'd probably had a much more interesting ride! I actually broke out laughing afterwards, it was a really strange experience. Carvedog, you clairvoyant?


Good fun. I am glad I was able to help in some small way from afar. The whole changing of momentum to pulling can be a real line killer for sure. Sometimes it has to be done though. 

Not clairvoyant in the way most folks think of clairvoyance. But I do believe that energy comes in many more forms than most people currently acknowledge. 

It is amazing what happens when you refuse to accept other peoples reality. 
IE: 'the push stroke is a weaker' or 'the power or pull stroke is the only way to get out of trouble'

Sometimes for me it's not thinking in forward or backward or push or pull-just 'move boat there with these levers (oars)'.


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## cmharris (Apr 30, 2013)

*Standing*

If I need to get the most out of a push, I stand up and put my right knee on my drybox. It moves my center of gravity back a little, but the relationship between my body, oars, locks, water is perfect to get the most out of each push. Standing in front of the drybox is the next best position for my setup. When I push hard from the sitting position, with my heavy boat, I usually just beat up the water, scare the fish and generally make a fool out of myself with little progress.


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## restrac2000 (Mar 6, 2008)

carvedog said:


> Disagree. Never had lumbar support and my forward stroke is mighty. It all depends on how braced in you are. Lumbar support locks you into rowing off of that 'hinge'. I tend to get my whole body into it. And as GC Guide suggests I stand up a lot, especially on the very big hits. Then instead of hinging off my lumbar I am exploding off of the whole box to the bow in one big extension of my whole body.
> 
> Personally I think seats encourage static rowing. IMHO.


I agree with the effects of seats or lumbar support on my rowing. They can help me at times with forward motion but overall I have found them to harm the full-use of my body and skeletal structure for power. They significantly impact my pull-strokes. I can see how they may benefit some people on forward push strokes but I think many of us benefit more on learning to use our core muscles (which has a ton of secondary benefits in life). 

I started standing while rowing a few years back and believe its an underutilized technique. With the proper foot placement I am able to get some really strong push strokes......but I guess that might be harder when rowing a Cat. I have mostly used it on our 18 foot bucket boat in larger volume rivers.

Good stuff.

Phillip


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## ridecats (Aug 8, 2009)

Remove Oar Rights (if any).


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## elkhaven (Sep 11, 2013)

I stand as well, now that I can, as my old 13' boat was not rigged right for it (quite a few things added up). I'm still getting used to standing so its really not my go to power but I do like it. My main issue with standing is the oars go a lot deeper and that often isn't a good option up here in MT. So I've been playing with how to balance blade depth while standing which is another whole thought process (blades at waist level when standing isn't as powerful as at chest height).

A couple things to think about when looking into standing and rowing... you really need a lot of vertical throw in your locks so if rowing with NRS or equivalent locks you'll really need to dial the angle of your oar tower; find that place where you can still dig deep while sitting but will allow enough up angle on the oar (welded frame, guess your SOL)... or get cobra's (not sure about pro-locks, pins and clips or other styles). Second, I find that I'd rather my locks were farther from my seat when pushing or standing. But I row fishermen a lot and still spend 90% of my time backrowing so they're set up for that.

third- not sure how well it would work on a small cat, you'd need a floor or really low scouting bars (which would get tiresome quickly) both of which are probably not as much of an option. Small cats (like the OP is talking about on other threads) just aren't typically set up to promote standing and rowing...

I row from a seat and a bench depending on set up and I have a pretty strong push but like most rowing I find a greater number of quicker lighter strokes more effective. If you're making massive little whirl pools around your blade, your moving water not your boat; slow down, ease up and get more efficient. 

When forward rowing I often "walk" my oars, one oar at a time not both at once, heck I do that a lot when back rowing. 

Lastly, switch it up... you'll learn a lot by trying different things of course. What works for one probably isn't ideal for everyone...

like usual I wrote a book, sorry.


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## Schutzie (Feb 5, 2013)

*Dons his helmet and life jacket and jumps in*

Contrary to rumors, I can, have, and will use the push stroke as appropriate. Successfully. I just prefer to pull rather than push.

One key no matter your stroke is use of the current to your advantage. 
Inexperienced or inattentive guides tend to underestimate the power of the current and seem to battle it rather than work with it.


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## cataraftgirl (Jun 5, 2009)

Over the years I have used both a forward push stroke, and the old "pull away from danger" stroke. I've also used the double stroke "crawl" that Elkhaven described above. All have served me well in different situations. I have found that my problem comes when I fall in love with one particular stroke to the exclusion of the others. I've found that a mix of them all works the best. What gets me into the most trouble is indecision in which to use in a panic moment. I have tried in vain to power push myself out of a bad situation, only to be plastered against a rock. Looking back, I wished I would have made a pivot move and pulled for all I was worth. Hindsight.....you know what they say about that. My advice.....learn them all & use them all as needed. Experiment with what works best for you in those "Oh Shit" moments!


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## SpeyCatr (Aug 14, 2013)

I sincerely appreciate the input to date in this thread, it's been outstanding guys! Once again your experience & knowledge has been a great resource!


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## kengore (May 29, 2008)

I too have enjoyed this very technical discussion, can't wait to get on the water and try some stuff out. 

Thank you for the insights, let's please have more of this kind of talk!


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## Schutzie (Feb 5, 2013)

cataraftgirl said:


> Over the years I have used both a forward push stroke, and the old "pull away from danger" stroke. I've also used the double stroke "crawl" that Elkhaven described above. All have served me well in different situations. I have found that my problem comes when I fall in love with one particular stroke to the exclusion of the others. I've found that a mix of them all works the best. What gets me into the most trouble is indecision in which to use in a panic moment. I have tried in vain to power push myself out of a bad situation, only to be plastered against a rock. Looking back, I wished I would have made a pivot move and pulled for all I was worth. Hindsight.....you know what they say about that. My advice.....learn them all & use them all as needed. Experiment with what works best for you in those "Oh Shit" moments!


....... What she says, except I never had a "Oh Shit" moment, so can't comment on that.


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## cataraftgirl (Jun 5, 2009)

Schutzie said:


> ....... What she says, except I never had a "Oh Shit" moment, so can't comment on that.


Now Schutzie.......your nose is growing! (Pinocchio reference for you youngsters).


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## restrac2000 (Mar 6, 2008)

We could combine to threads....the way to increase forward push stroke power is ... to have a thunderstorm move right over top you.


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