# AT, Tele, or Splitboard???



## arkriverrat

Alright all you backcountry powderhounds, I am looking to cut in on a little of your bounty this year and am trying to size up just the basics of the setup I want to get. AT gear creeps me out a little... seems chincy and less supportive than the DH gear I am used to breaking. I love tele but am mutch better on DH boards or a snowboard (Have been off the summit of Mt. Washington through Tuckermans on all three though:mrgreen: ). And finally what seems to me to be the most attractive option right now is the split board. Looking for pros, cons, and epic adventure stories to get me psyched for a season that I believe will be unrivaled! 
Thanx,
Tim


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## Force

AT - get the fritschi bindings. grip it and rip it.


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## Ryde164

Good to see I'm not the only person this side of the Mississippi whose riden tucks. 

Splitboard.

Actually I'm that guy with approach skis and a snowboard. Why not all three? with all the money you'll be saving on not buying lift tickets. Hands down nothing floats like a snowboard in the deep stuff though.

I'm new to the CO. BC scene and most the people I've met out this way are inbounders only. Are there any clubs or other message boards to pick up on the out of bounds beta? (other than the website formally known as couloir.com)

If you're gonna go AT, NAXO's might be a little heavy but they are built strong like bull.

Dave


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## Robt

I'd go AT. That is to say I went AT in pretty much the same situation, except not as much snowboarding. The split board would be a good option, but I'm a skier at heart. 
I've had no problem with Naxos, mostly BC, but a quite a few days in bounds too. An AT set up is not a DH set up, but they have gotten pretty close these days. If you are worried about burlyness of bindings and gear check out the Marker Dukes, and alpine boots don't tour quite as well as AT's, but do just fine. 

Rob


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## dvanhouten

*AT*

Go AT--I've seen both broken Fritschi's & Naxo's, but both are pretty bomber. Also allows you to use alpine boots with either binding (save a bit of money).

Doug


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## peak

"I'm new to the CO. BC scene and most the people I've met out this way are inbounders only. Are there any clubs or other message boards to pick up on the out of bounds beta?"

check telemarktips.com and teton gravity research (tetongravity.com)


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## Kendarflugen

As a snowboarder w/ a splitboard, I say that skis are the way to go in the BC. When I'm on the splitboard, I can usually keep up w/ skiers going up-hill. The advantage I see to skiing (AT or Tele) is in touring. Even for short sections on the trail, going downhill in ski-mode w/ a splitboard isn't that easy... can't weight the tips & only one curved edge. Plus, taking time to clean snow & ice off of the boards to switch back to snowboard-mode is a pain in the a**. It's time consuming and it's hard to do w/ gloves on.

I had about 4 days at the area on downhill skis last season and rented AT for a hut trip in the spring. I'm making the switch to skiing this season mostly so I'll be able to ski in the BC instead of snowboard. BTW... I tried Tele a few years ago and it didn't click for me like downhill did (I'm prolly just not tough enough to Tele  ).

Anyway... IMO AT & Tele are both better than a splitboard, especially since you already know how to ski.

-R


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## FLOWTORCH

God, you guys are all way off. Snowshoes are the way to go!

Hehe, so uh, just shootin from the hip here so here ya go...

There is no definite way to go in the BC. Do what you wanna do. If you wanna split, do it. Cant speak for the AT/Tele gear but I can promise you that splitboards are most definitely a viable option for the BC. 

I keep up w/my tele/AT crew of friends just fine as do the other 5 or so splitters I know. Dont care for that argument. 

The only con to Splits is they are slightly heavier, so what, gets your ass in shape.

Splittin downhill just takes time, practice and form. I love to ski my split downhill(when touring obviously). And traversing isn't that much harder than the other options, with *good* technique. 

Taking time to clean your edges and transition your board to ride mode should take all of _two_ minutes, if that. Hardly a pain in the ass. Once you get your routine down, really-it's not a problem at all.

Sounds like your really leanin towards the Split, you wont be disappointed with what it brings you. Just get informed, take avy classes, get good gear(from your gloves to your layers to your shell-the higher exertion you put into touring demands a different set up than at the resorts)Talk to experienced people, etc. Voile, Never Summer, Prior, Venture all make solid splits. 

oh ya, splitboard.com


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## thumper

Although I've never tried splitboards, I think I would agree w/ Kendarflugen. If you wanna board in the bc, just pack along some snowshoes, since you would have to take the board off anyway to put it back together and re-configure the bindings at the top. Smallish shoes will keep you from postholing and will be easy to pack in most bc packs. Just try not to screw up the skiers pack-trails too bad!
After many years of inbounds and bc boarding, I picked up tele a few years ago strictly for the bc convenience. I found tele on hardpack to be way closer to boarding (think toe turn, then swicth toe turn on a board being similar to tele turns), at least on the groomers and hardpack. The chop and powder of the bc is way different, probably similar to downhilling in pow (but I wouldn't know).


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## FLOWTORCH

Slowshoes are absolutely *not* the way to go in the Backcountry unless your just planning on hiking hard packed trails maybe. Plus the AT'ers, splitters and the Tele crowd will despise you for wrecking their skin track.


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## purpleyak

So I would agree with the feedback from all the AT'ers out there but have to represent the Tele crowd and say that I have not had a bad day either touring or skiing both in luscious powder or busting a thick crust where you clinch your butt cheeks so hard that they hurt for three days. 

In the end I would go with what you enjoy most. The technology out there is equal across the board these days no matter what your preference (This is my opinion only)

Splitboards certainly will slow you down when all of your buddies are waiting for you up the trail, plus moving from place to place without necessarily having to take the time to switch out from riding to hiking is nicer on skis. But I have never been on a snowboard, nor do I think I will ever try, this is only an observation. The boarders I ride with bring snow shoes or ski when the days are going to be longer. If you are riding Berthoud, then you could get by with just a board and bootpack.

Skis, either or based on preference. Teles are nice just because they rock and touring is a cinch, but AT is pretty much the same.

most important is riding what you like.....or like one said...buy all three and never ski inbounds again.


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## goldcamp

*naxo vs fritschi*

Its your choice what to ride but if you go AT get the Fritsch's. Im a big guy 6'3 210 and when touring on soft snow with 0' angle the flex of the ski makes the binding catch. It doesn't happen that often but is a pain in the ass. The Fritsch are designed different and don't have that problem. I think both brands are bomber. The naxo probable tour better under normal conditions with the 2 pivot points.


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## COUNT

Randonnee=French for Can't Tele.


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## iliketohike

I dunno. whichever you like. At and Tele are comparable, and I've met some boarders that can kick like a skate board and keep up with either without any compromise. It's all a matter of style. I tele cause it made skiing fun again, after skiing since a little kid, and just like making the turn, and I can hike easy like. But I got mad respect for snowboarders who can kick, and most AT/Alpine people seem to be more aerial agressive, so I got props for them too. Scared of extreme air, I'll tele cause ILIKETOHIKE. HA


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## arkriverrat

*Thanks for all of the great replies*

Thanks all for chiming in and the good sugestions and opinions, I'm still leaning toward the split, but I have to go check out some other setups and try on some boots I guess... I predict that winter is going to come early and hard, I can't wait, the water is almost gone!


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## dgosn

*AT, Tele, Split.....*

Well in Colorado there is an endless variety of choices. I have skied my whole life, went the tele route for a while and went back to AT. I have only snoboardeded a few times and was never good enough to even think about powder. However many of my friends have splitboards.

Tele -- Good for touring, and if you have the skills excellent for skiing, however it seems like I always feel safer in tight icy chutes with a fixed heel. Also think about snow pack stress, if you cant cut it on teles do you really want to take a face plant and dig your selfout in a less than desirable snowpack(Like most of colorado)? 

AT -- My favorite. I own Naxos and Freerides. I like my Naxos better as i have found the toe release is much better than Fritchis. I cant really say one tours better, the Naxo's double pivot kicks ass for flatter terrain, but seems no different than Fritchis after you start using the big climbing bar. Actually the Fritchis may be better at the high setting. I eventually ended up breaking the cocking lever on my Naxos, but it was my fault, I stomped on it when it was close to -25F, most plastics are weaker at this temp. I personally think that the Naxo is a stronger safer binding, but Fritchis is by no means bad or unsafe. 
There are new Marker AT binders. I have yet to see one, but word is they are BOMBER(Salomon users flame away..). But the Marker is HEAVY and not something you want to tour with unless you find yourself hucking 50 feet onto hardpack.
As far as AT binding go, I have the large sizes, which means they have a high DIN (on NAXO at least). But if you have smaller feet odds are you are shorter, weigh less, etc. and have less need for a high DIN

Splitboard -- With a short fat ski underfoot, these things climb like a machine. even better if you are breaking trail for skiers they lay down a highway. Unfortunately I have spent many a minutes on a frigid windy ridge as friends try to chip away ice and fiddle with the setup with frozen hands. If you can ski they can be lightly skied in that flats for gentler tours. However, every 5 minutes you F*** with your splitboard is 5 minutes towards your naxt lap. One downfall is you are in snowboard boots, they dont lend well to crampons or kicking steps. Also not having releasable bindings is not the best idea for Avi terrain.


Slowshoes -- Give me a break. I am actually all for slowshoes, users get so worn out they usually only make one or two laps. If you get Snowshoes, DONT WRECK THE SKIN TRACK. You will get yelled at, maybe worse. However shoes with good cleats do well in early AM spring conditions... Most snowshoers I see in also dont have beacons or probes, just a giant plastic shovel for building a "wicked, huge, narly kicker" which also seems to be invariably located in a slope starting zone aboce a terrain trap. Snowshoes may be a tool of social Darwinsim.

Better yet move to Utah or the Sierras where many people blindly bootpack in the footsteps of those before them.

Good luck, any thing that gets you to the top of a snowy peak is A-Ok
scott


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## rm&p

Seems like they all have their advantages depending on what type of snow, terrain, and touring you like to do. I ski freeheel gear because I like being able to basically have the same set up for resort skiing as non-resort skiing. I have friends who love the Dynafit stuff because it's lighter than anything else, but they all weigh under 200 pounds and don't ski super aggressively. I also know folks that love the Fritshci and Naxos and others that hate them. One common complaint is that they are too high off the ski. The biggest drawback I see to AT gear is the lack of an aggressive boot. Even the Garmont G-Rides and Adrenalines are toned-down versions of Alpine boots, so if you cant stand soft boots, you might want to opt for a T-Race or similar tele boot. Just make sure you get a boot with tour-mode as Scarpa stopped including that in the newer T-races. One other thing, despite what anyone says, you don't have to drop your knee when skiing on telemark gear. In fact, I think paralleling on tele gear in powder is more fun than on alpine gear. If you are only interested in skiing soft snow, a split board might be the answer. They're the shit for breaking trail in deep snow and as long as you get the conversion down you can keep up with your skier buddies within reason. If you're light on your skis(and bindings) you can ski them and have fun skiing them too. There are people who ski split boards as much as snowboard on them.


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## FLOWTORCH

purpleyak said:


> Splitboards certainly will slow you down when all of your buddies are waiting for you up the trail.





> you can keep up with your skier buddies within reason


Sooo, why is this? It just happens? What people are saying is I cant be standing on top of a ridge while I watch my at/tele friends show up after me cause I'm wearin a splitboard?? Cause it happens. Come on, it's not whats on your feet it's the individual. They're only as slow as the person using them, like anything. 

Again, the transition becomes second nature and should take less than two minutes. I doubt your skier friends will have already pointed it downhill and started another lap in that time. Dont buy that shit.

Regarding the boots like dgosn was sayin. You wont be goin with your typical resort soft boots. You can still use soft boots but they do lack in the kickstep department. And there are crampons out there that fit soft boots. Light and Rigid boots are a good idea. Like the Salomon Malamutes........_which I happen to have a brand new size 12 pair for sale, if your interested_......Better yet, if you drop the cash, hard boots are obviously excellent for climbing/mountaineering and ascending. I have a few friends that rock those and with the cants under your baseplate you dont have to have that lame hard boot style, you'll keep the soft boot snowboard steez. 

Look into the malamutes, they're pretty much the standard soft boot for alot of people. And if your around a size 12 i got a deal for ya. They're just too small for me.


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## teleboater5.13

I have to represent the tele crowd also and say that you should tele, although do whatever makes you happy. 

Peak as far as forums go for BC skiing in CO powderbuzz.com is a site equal to mountain buzz but for BC skiing.


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## rm&p

I'll clarify "within reason": your skier friends aren't doing little half-lap farmer runs where you have to convert 50 times a day or skiing somewhere that involves skinless traversing and side-stepping. I ski with split boarders who are ready go downhill faster than most skiers. Step-ins and/or mountaineering boot type bindings make the split board conversion quite a bit faster.


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## arkriverrat

*Leaning towards the split*

Hey, thanks everyone for your opinions, knowledge, and experience that I hope to gain. I am leaning heavily towards a split board right now, with the only drawback I can see as the crampon issue, but the only crampons that I own or have ever used are for soft boots anyway, so I think I'll be allright. (Crampons scare me anyway, I'd rather take longer cutting steps with an ice axe any day). On another note, anyone have suggestions on who to take an Avalanche level 1 course with? I have found several providers offering different experiences, with a minimal difference in price ($70 dollars difference over three days I can hang with). I just want the best training I can get. Allong with that, the earliest classes I have seen are in late December and early Jan. I want to gain knowledge and get out as quickly as possible, but is it worth doing some lift service early season, and waiting to take a course later in the season when the snowpack will potentially be more diverse? I just want to get the most out of the course I take that I can, and I don't know how much of it is book compared to actually looking at snow. I have 27 years experience w/ snow conditions, but I never paid much attention to what was causing them, or how they could react over time, though I am definately aware of the crystaline structure that is broken down to a ball bearing structure due to heat and pressure. Wow, just realized that the beer got to me and I'm ramblin'. Thanks again for the info.
Tim


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## teleboater5.13

I took my Level 1 class through Colorado Moutain School. I thought that it was a great class. They offer it in two locations, one in Winter Park and the other in Rocky Moutain National Park. I took the course at RMNP becuase it is a great opportunity to get to explore some bc in an area that you may or may not have been to before. There is also a hostel in Estes where you can stay for like $20 a night if you are in the class.


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## dgosn

*Level One*

No matter what you do take an avi class in a continental snowpack, Colorado is probably consistantly the "most continental" in lower 48, with steamboat being an exception sometimes. I have had friends take avi classes in OR and WA where faceted crystals rarely exist. You might as well learn in a dangerous place.....
I took my Level I and II at Silverton avalanche school. The instruction there is unbelieveable, with instructors from snow safety, CDOT, patrolers, forecasters, etc.... The San Juans are often the most unstable snowpack around. I know that most acredited level one classes in the state will be good to great.
I found my level one class did more to scare me than to help make my own choices based on risk/terrain/weather etc. After sking in the BC for a few years before my Level One I felt lucky to be alive after taking the class. 6 years after my level one I took a level 2 and actually felt I learned A LOT more. I think actual time on snow and with safe competent people is the most benificial training. 
The reality is that you can ski steep slopes, and you can ski during storms, BUT there has to be the right ingredients in place for it to happen safely. Level One does not teach that at all, it teaches a flow chart of what makes an avalanche and leaves the impression that BC is a dangerous game unless you ALWAYS avoid avalanche terrain.

Either way good luck, hope for a great winter!
Scott


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## Alpine Sports Outlet

You might want to check out the new marker Duke AT bindings. They are bomber strong and about the closest thing to an alpine binding out there. Should start hitting shelves about now (ours aren't here yet - should be any day now).


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## liquidchaos

Need I say more...


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## El Flaco

Just noticed a cheap splitboard on CL:

Snowboard, Voile Split Decision 178cm


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## rm&p

El Flaco said:


> Just noticed a cheap splitboard on CL:
> 
> Snowboard, Voile Split Decision 178cm


 
If this is in good shape and you have the cash for a strictly soft snow splitboard, I'd snag this one. I have the 195 swallowtail and when it's truly bottomless there's nothing better. I don't know if Voile's even making these anymore because it's too cool for the dorky backcountry skier/snowboarder market.


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## arkriverrat

*I went with the split...*

Ordered a Prior Khyber 165 today, as much as I love fall I can't wait for the snow to fall!!! I definately passed on the Volle add to a friend though, it might be just what he's looking for! Thanks again for all the great input, I hope to run into you all at some point or another in the woods or on the river!
Tim


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## Waterwindpowderrock

You'll love the prior, they make a superior board. In a year you'll be looking for a 170+ though!

and remember, Friends don't let friends ride Burton splitboards!


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