# Chama Pre-permit



## stewart242 (Sep 18, 2015)

*There might a weekend before permit season...*

Looking at last year's releases, you might get the weekend before permits are required with adequate water to make it down...though kinda barely (last year the weekend before permit seasons saw a flow of about 450 cfs). I know on the lower 8 miles from Chavez Canyon to Big Eddy 500 cfs was cutting it close. 

Here's the cfs chart from the end of April of last year:
USGS Current Conditions for USGS 08285500 RIO CHAMA BELOW EL VADO DAM, NM


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## lmyers (Jun 10, 2008)

stewart242 said:


> Looking at last year's releases, you might get the weekend before permits are required with adequate water to make it down...though kinda barely (last year the weekend before permit seasons saw a flow of about 450 cfs). I know on the lower 8 miles from Chavez Canyon to Big Eddy 500 cfs was cutting it close.


Why only look at last season's release? I have ran the Chama several times in the last decade the last weekend in April. What I would like to hear is some kind of reasoning as to why they will dump 1800 cfs in a drought year but only 350 in a year that has average snow pack. I haven't been able to figure a pattern to the late April releases, and would love to know what to anticipate...


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## deadlizard (Mar 10, 2008)

*Spoke with river ranger Mark Sundin last Friday*

He said he hated to be the bearer of bad news, but the information he had was that up to and through the 1st two weeks of the May, boating season was not going to happen.

After it was all over and done with, realized I had implied a rafting trip and not asked about kayak flows.

At the same time that conversation was happening, flows bumped from 70 to 170 (now 155).

So long story short is, I am as always, confused about driving 600 miles for a may or may not happen Chama trip.

Love this river though.

Gene


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## deadlizard (Mar 10, 2008)

*What is your minimum for an IK?*

Know most reports have stated 250 was perfectly fine. Would people who have done low flow go at 175-200?

Gene


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## Gremlin (Jun 24, 2010)

lmyers said:


> Why only look at last season's release? I have ran the Chama several times in the last decade the last weekend in April. What I would like to hear is some kind of reasoning as to why they will dump 1800 cfs in a drought year but only 350 in a year that has average snow pack. I haven't been able to figure a pattern to the late April releases, and would love to know what to anticipate...



I had a permit for a June launch in a drought year and assumed it wouldn't go. Surprisingly, we had 1000cfs. I was told the demand for water by ranchers downriver meant they would need to move more water from the upper reservoir to the lower one. Not sure if that is what is happening in April.


Sent from this thingy using Mountain Buzz


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## stewart242 (Sep 18, 2015)

It looks like last year was UNUSUALLY LOW. Here's data through 2009 - only one year was there a flow close to last year's (the river that year was 500 cfs on the last weekend of April). 

(2014) USGS Current Conditions for USGS 08285500 RIO CHAMA BELOW EL VADO DAM, NM

(2013) USGS Current Conditions for USGS 08285500 RIO CHAMA BELOW EL VADO DAM, NM

(2012) USGS Current Conditions for USGS 08285500 RIO CHAMA BELOW EL VADO DAM, NM

(2011) USGS Current Conditions for USGS 08285500 RIO CHAMA BELOW EL VADO DAM, NM

(2010) USGS Current Conditions for USGS 08285500 RIO CHAMA BELOW EL VADO DAM, NM

(2009) USGS Current Conditions for USGS 08285500 RIO CHAMA BELOW EL VADO DAM, NM


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## stewart242 (Sep 18, 2015)

lmyers said:


> Why only look at last season's release? I have ran the Chama several times in the last decade the last weekend in April. What I would like to hear is some kind of reasoning as to why they will dump 1800 cfs in a drought year but only 350 in a year that has average snow pack. I haven't been able to figure a pattern to the late April releases, and would love to know what to anticipate...


You're right!


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## deadlizard (Mar 10, 2008)

*Confirmed with Chama Reclamation folks.*

Spoke with Ed this morning to try and confirm the lack of early season releases. He said right now the plan is to perhaps start releasing recreational flows around Memorial day. Until then, it is "grim" as he put it. Said El Vado was in a storage mode only at this time.

Then asked about kayak only flows of in the 250 range. "Grim".


Gene


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## Rojo (May 31, 2012)

*Chama River Release info 2016*

Tidbits of Chama release info from Bureau of Reclamation 4/7 e-mail notice and meeting notice further down.

"Good morning to all of you. I hope this e-mail finds you doing well. I have received a few inquiries on planned Rio Chama flows for the coming weeks. Right now, because we are out of Artice VII storage restrictions, we are storing what we can at El Vado. And so far, MRGCD is not calling for any of its water from El Vado. So, the release at El Vado is around 80. It will likely remain between 80 and 100 for the coming weeks. I will let you know if anything changes. 

We will hold our Annual Operating Plan public meeting at our Albuquerque office (555 Broadway NE, Suite 100) on Wednesday April 20 at 1:30 p.m. We are also working on setting up a web-ex and call-in number. I will share another e-mail with that info when it is finalized. I will also be glad to share the presentation info following the meeting with anyone who is interested. 
Thanks and have a great day.
Mary Carlson
Public Affairs Specialist
Bureau of Reclamation
Albuquerque Area Office"

Short notice for 4/20/16 meeting in Albuquerque regarding Middle Rio Grande Water Conservancy District plans for 2016.





*Adobe Whitewater Club of New Mexico*







Reminder: TOMORROW, Wednesday - 4/20, 2016 1:30PM
Annual Operations Plan for 2016 impacting the release of water from El Vado for scheduled releases (as in the past) on the Rio Chama 
Where: Albuquerque: Bureau of Reclamation Albuquerque Office, 555 Broadway Boulevard NE, Suite 100, Albuquerque, New Mexico, Rio Grande Room or by web ex or conference call. 
... Why: To learn more about the process used for determining this year’s operating plan, water forecast, water storage, potential for water storage and release
The Albuquerque Area Office invites you to attend this online meeting. 
Topic: Annual Operating Plan Meeting 
Date: Wednesday, April 20, 2016 
Time: 1:30 pm, Mountain Daylight Time (Denver, GMT-06:00) 
Meeting Number: 806 550 456 
Meeting Password: wZb5Mi28 

------------------------------------------------------- 
To join the online meeting 
------------------------------------------------------- 
1. Go to https://ucbor.webex.com/ucbor/j.php… 
2. If requested, enter your name and email address. 
3. If a password is required, enter the meeting password: wZb5Mi28 
4. Click "Join". 
To view in other time zones or languages, please click the link: 
https://ucbor.webex.com/ucbor/j.php… 
------------------------------------------------------- 
To join the audio conference only 
------------------------------------------------------- 
866-916-4287 
Participant Passcode: 5287707 
AWC and other boating communities need to be represented.
1. Ways to get your Opinion heard:
2. Attend Meeting –
3. Sign in to participate in the webcast/teleconference – info in the above attached document

See More



US Bureau of Reclamation WebEx Enterprise Site
30
ucbor.webex.com


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## deadlizard (Mar 10, 2008)

*Thanks for the new contact information.*

Perhaps this will make it easier to get an idea on Chama releases.

Gene


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## stewart242 (Sep 18, 2015)

deadlizard said:


> Know most reports have stated 250 was perfectly fine. Would people who have done low flow go at 175-200?
> 
> Gene


Per the BLM website:

"The recommended minimum flow requirements for kayaks, canoes, and rafts less than 12' is 300 cfs. For rafts over 12' in length the recommended minimum from is 500 cfs."

Rio Chama Wild and Scenic River

I'd love to hear too what kinds of lower water runs folks have done!


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