# What should I do to train for a class 5 river this coming fall?



## ouachita (May 27, 2009)

Buy a shaft float


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## co_bjread (Oct 26, 2004)

Hehehehehehehe. :lol:


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## colorado_steve (May 1, 2011)

swift water rescue course


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## Blade&Shaft (May 23, 2009)

Class IV


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## boofyak (May 30, 2005)

The Tallulah is extremely committing, and the F-up factor is huge. I helped extract a woman from there with four broken bones in her legs  Go paddle the Chattooga and Ocoee about 50 times each, then maybe Tallulah! It's not worth ruining others paddlers days by being "that guy".


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## JCarrigg (Feb 18, 2012)

What are you currently using?


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## ranchman44 (Apr 16, 2009)

If you have to ask you are in deep trouble . First paddle with boaters above your sikills and they can tell you what river in your area to run . They can bring you up threw the levels until you are ready .
Good boaters are always looking for fresh meat - good luck


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## ranchman44 (Apr 16, 2009)

Go on a commerical raft trip down that river . Even then it is a real pucker river. 
then you will have the answer you are looking for.


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## JCarrigg (Feb 18, 2012)

I was going to say the same thing. It's only the new boaters who ask the question. I was way over confident....right up until I had my ass handed to me a couple times. But that's a good thing because you learn respect for the river. Work on hard moves on easier rivers. While that may sound stupid, it'll click when you need it to. Don't let your ego get you hurt....and I mean no offense just giving you a fair perspective.


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## ouachita (May 27, 2009)

I don't think they run commercial trips on the Tallulah.

Anyway, sorry for my sarcastic "shaft float" response. You have gotten some good replies. If you are close to the Ocoee get some good instruction on it and run the shit out of it. And as others have said try to find a good crew to boat with. With the amazing amount of whitewater in your area there is no need to rush into the Tallulah. It will always be there later.


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## adgeiser (May 26, 2009)

paddle a LOT.
right now it sounds like you are a class II to III paddler. 
Do more III's and then go for some IV- 
never forget it is a progression not a jump.

the other thing a recommend is build a solid crew that knows you and your abilities as well as you knowing them and theirs. Never underestimate the importance of the crew you paddle with and are a part of.


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## Skillkilla (Mar 29, 2011)

if your a SOLID class 3 boater, you need to also have-bombproof combat roll from both sides, excellent low and high brace, the ability to change direction and eddy out on a dime, great river reading skills, and above all else the ability to stay calm and apply those skills in a unforgiving and violent enviroment. class 5 isnt a joke, i paddle it all and 3 to me is a snooze fest. the difference from 3 to 5 is massive. a mistake in a class 3 is easily fixed, a roll , a bruise, maybe at worst a swim. a mistake or a missed line in 5 can cost you your life. progress from class to class and master each one. 10 rolls in a class 4 dosent mean you did it- no rolls means you did. paddle with boaters better than you and learn everything you can. have fun !!


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## montuckyhuck (Mar 14, 2010)

Class V is just like screwing a hooker. Strap on some protection and hope for the best...





(Joke)


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## coloclimber512 (Aug 29, 2009)

You might be able to reach your goal of paddling the Tallulah Gorge in time for the November releases this year. You will have to get a lot of days on the water though. You have plenty of time to hit easier whitewater and progress slowly through the spring and summer. Hit your class II runs a lot until you make them class III, then once you get comfortable on III start making harder moves making it III+ then start dabbling in some IV and so on. Move up to the next step once you feel solid on the sections of river you are running at the time. If you scare yourself or you have an issue take a step back for a couple days/weeks and work on what you were screwing up on easier less demanding water. Hook up with a crew that might have the same goals and start working towards them together. Stay safe. You will know when you are ready to take the next step. And remember using you brain is the best piece of safety gear you have on you!

Edit: also if you don't feel comfortable to jump on that run this season, there is always next. I portaged a drop on a run here 30 times at least over the past two years until I felt comfortable to run it.


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## co_bjread (Oct 26, 2004)

Get your boat and start having fun, fun is the key. Progress as you are ready, you should be able to tell as you go. Also, this recent post is fairly similar, with good info too.
Good luck.

http://www.mountainbuzz.com/forums/f11/am-i-ready-for-class-v-43107.html


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## raftus (Jul 20, 2005)

Lots of good advice here. I'll add three things: 
1. People talk about seasons or years on the river. What's more important is days on the river. If guy A paddles 10 days a year for 10 years he has 100 days. If guy B paddles 100 days a year for ten years he has 1,000 days. Who do you think is going to be the better paddler? If you want to make the move to class V in a year - focus on the number of days you get on the river. 
2. Quality. There is a big difference between just running a section and practicing critical skills throughout a day on the river. While running the same section you could say hit ten eddies and avoid surfing all day. Or you could hit 100 eddies (including tiny hard to catch ones) and surf every chance you get. You could do 0 practice rolls, or you could practice both onside and offside rolls and braces. You can practice river wide ferries, throw bagging, setting up a z-drag, etc. You get a lot more out of quality practice while on the river than just running it. 
3. Variety. Running as many different rivers as you can fit into your schedule will also help a lot. Every rapid is different, rivers have different characteristics, and challenging yourself on _incrementally_ harder rivers will help you progress faster.


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## yak1 (Jan 28, 2006)

The move from class IV to Class V is move of the mind.....if you're good and confident in Class IV you probably have the skills. What you need for class V is commitment, confidence, flexibility, adaptability, and most of all total focus. The most important thing is to be able to look at a drop and accurately evaluate what it's going to take to get through the drop and be willing to put your boat on your shoulder and take a walk.


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## milo (Apr 21, 2004)

Yo shred, living on a class 2 implies that you were able to have a peanut butter and jelly sandwich sitting on your spray deck while you were boating..... Class 4-5 means you're not necessarily hungry at the moment....class five means you ate yesterday.... Do good and try hard on whatever "CLASS" you find yourself in.... Like somebody said, don't be that guy.... But we've all been that guy before.....Milozadik wishecouldski 420 CB


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## El Flaco (Nov 5, 2003)

Wow- surprising restraint for the offseason Buzz on this thread. Good advice all around.


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## GeorgiaGuy (Jan 12, 2013)

ouachita said:


> And as others have said try to find a good crew to boat with.


I dont have a "crew" lol 
the only people I know who paddle live 50 miles away and live on the same river I did, the Cartecay.

They are more like long lost friends, who have full time jobs and wives and kids.

I joined this site last night to find other people who were serious about paddling


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## JCarrigg (Feb 18, 2012)

My "crew" live 11/2-2hrs away. We make plans to meet and ride together or we may meet at the put in. There are tons of good boaters on these rivers that go out consistently. That really is key when trying to push yourself. Get on local or regional forums...meet people....ask questions. The only problem for you I could see is some of these people can't spend more than a day or two on the water at a time which holds you back a little.


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## bjett (Jun 30, 2005)

So...you don't have an actual whitewater boat yet but want to run the Tallulah. Interesting.
I'd start posting on BoaterTalk. But prepare to get flamed. Its just how these things work...
If you are serious and not trolling you will find paddlers near you on BT willing to help you out. But once you get a WW boat you will need a year or two running class II-IV before jumping on anything like the Tallulah. 
The Ocoee in the summer will be your friend. Be patient, enjoy yourself.

BoaterTalk: BoaterTalk


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## caspermike (Mar 9, 2007)

Hey buds I would say don't worry about class. Worry bout fun! If you ain't having fun why do it. Start small find a nice couple surf feature and learn simple understanding and respect for the river than work up boss. Having a positive attitude is a great way to meet boaters on the river and number three you gotta go and be there if you really want it I am from Wyoming crews can be tight or you can have the entire community as your crew I prefer the options.. Lastly get a whitewater rescue certification to help save your buds life aswell your own.. Have fun come to montana and we will do some boating man. Sounds like you found your sport if you be asking questions just remember like a river most progress and don't have giant waterfalls so take it slow enjoy the eddies and make some fun moves.


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## lmyers (Jun 10, 2008)

GeorgiaGuy said:


> I dont have a "crew" lol
> 
> I joined this site last night to find other people who were serious about paddling


Everyone who has replied to your thread, and 90% of people on this forum are extremely serious about paddling.... like our lives revolve around it. Unfortunately, I don't believe any of us are in Georgia. 

The suggestions of using Boatertalk is a good one. I would also suggest finding some sort of whitewater festival in your region and meeting as many people as you can. You have to make contacts to find people who are on the same level as you and have the same goals, and that really is key. Taking a course or two is also a great way to learn proper technique and safety, while meeting other paddlers. 

Good luck, and welcome to the world of whitewater.


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## JCarrigg (Feb 18, 2012)

I'm actually in South Carolina. Not far away and we'll probably be hitting the same rivers. Or at least the same region.


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## smauk2 (Jun 24, 2009)

Was checking out The Tallulah Gorge when I found this video of The Chattooga! Head-cam footage of swimming through a sieve... gross. 

Be careful!

Holly's Chattooga Swim at Hydroelectric Rock 09-25-2011 - YouTube


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## SimonMW (Dec 23, 2010)

> Really want to go down the Tallulah Gorge in the northeast corner of Georgia. I have a good 2 years under my belt, practically lived on a class 2 river last summer. I've managed many class 3 rapids with no difficulty, but I'm looking at buying an actual whitewater boat.
> 
> Besides getting used to the new boat, what should I do to better prepare myself for a much more exciting river without jumping off the deep end and crossing my fingers?


Everything that everyone here has suggested. Stop chasing grades of river. Just have fun on the water. If you can nail every intended line on a grade/class 3+ without swims, try to nail class 4. Then class 4+ (there's a big difference between 4 and 4+, and then another big jump to 5).

Personally I don't really have 5's on my list because I got into kayaking to have fun, not to prove a point. I also have family to think about. Some people love the adrenaline rush. For me I do kayaking because I enjoy the river environment no matter what the grade of river, and I enjoy the banter and company of friends. The grade of river is secondary for me. I've done 4's and I know that even attempting a 5 is waaaaaaaaay off even if that was my aim.

My ultimate question to you would be, what's the hurry?


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## lemsip (Sep 11, 2009)

smauk2 said:


> Was checking out The Tallulah Gorge when I found this video of The Chattooga! Head-cam footage of swimming through a sieve... gross.
> 
> Be careful!



You can hear someone shouting "swim left", "let go of the boat" (I think).


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## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

The "good crew" recommendation is absolutely critical. If you want to step it up, ideally you have some good boating friends, mentors, who are willing to take the extra time while you get on more and more difficult runs. Secondly, good boating friends that are of comparable skill that are looking to step it up together. Keep putting yourself out there and you'll meet people. You risk flaming, but many of my favorite boating friends and me tors came either directly or indirectly from internet forums and plenty of flaming came with it. I knew no one who wanted to boat the rivers that I did, and it took some time to meet people that were if similar mindset. Also, willing to just introduce yourself to people at put ins and take outs. That is the fastest way to meet the local crew with local knowledge. Good luck, and just keep working at it.


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## Skillkilla (Mar 29, 2011)

wow . holly has no buisness on that river, lol- didnt even attempt to roll ! over and out ! tragic.


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## JCarrigg (Feb 18, 2012)

Wow! A simple mistake....she could've easily drowned. Glad she's ok.


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## rivermunkey (Dec 30, 2011)

In your area, check out the Georgia Canoe Association, Atlanta Whitewater Club, and the Foothills Paddling Club. You'll meet plenty of people willing to help you progress.


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## shonuffkayak (Feb 2, 2011)

Skillkilla said:


> wow . holly has no buisness on that river, lol- didnt even attempt to roll ! over and out ! tragic.


Everyone starts somewhere. My first trip on the miracle mile I bail quick too.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

co_bjread said:


> http://www.mountainbuzz.com/forums/f11/am-i-ready-for-class-v-43107.html


Can't emphasize that thread enough. OP, read it from start to finish.



yak1 said:


> The move from class IV to Class V is move of the mind.....if you're good and confident in Class IV you probably have the skills. What you need for class V is commitment, confidence, flexibility, adaptability, and most of all total focus. The most important thing is to be able to look at a drop and accurately evaluate what it's going to take to get through the drop and be willing to put your boat on your shoulder and take a walk.


 
That makes sense if you're giving advice to a Class IV boater.

No offense to the OP, but it won't be relevant to the OP's II/III frame of reference.



GeorgiaGuy said:


> I joined this site last night to find other people who were serious about paddling


X3 on the BoaterTalk suggestion. Not that anyone is trying to give you the brush-off. Both these forums are somewhat "regional". BT has a heavier emphasis and more participation from members on SE rivers. The Buzz has a heavier emphasis on Western rivers.

Definitely find a crew...find some people who have similar (or slightly better) skills than you who want to run some III and play in some III and find some new challenges. Grow together.




lhowemt said:


> You risk flaming, but many of my favorite boating friends and mentors came either directly or indirectly from internet forums and plenty of flaming came with it. I knew no one who wanted to boat the rivers that I did, and it took some time to meet people that were if similar mindset.


I was lucky and found a lot of people who wanted to run the MF Flathead (III-) when I did. Recently, I've been lucky to find people on here to boat with in their local areas.



> Also, willing to just introduce yourself to people at put ins and take outs. That is the fastest way to meet the local crew with local knowledge.


Absolutely. Bring beer and chips to share.

One time when I was a newb, my then- 2yo daughter left the freezer door open when she was getting a blue ice to put on a boo-boo. We had 30-40lbs of meat that thawed. My wife and I spent an entire morning roasting and dehydrating and BBQ'ing what we could so it wouldn't go to waste. I met a lot of people that afternoon when I showed up at the takeout with 10# of sirloin steaks and margarita fixins. 9 years later people still laugh about that day.


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## DoubleYouEss (Oct 4, 2011)

Fantastic rescue, I like the barefoot guy and the dude with no helmet and his PFD unzipped...


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## brandob9 (Jun 13, 2010)

One of the other things that hasn't been mentioned yet is simple endurance. Each new step on the ladder comes with harder moves in harder water, all of which come down to more strength and longer endurance. 

As example, I considered myself a relatively capable Truss lapper, but I was one tired puppy after my Little White run. 

Since my shoulder injury, I've been using a hand crank machine at the gym to get strength back. You could do that and the rowing machine mid-week to speed your progress.


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## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

shonuffkayak said:


> Everyone starts somewhere. My first trip on the miracle mile I bail quick too.


Starting in the right place is key, and what most people are talking about. That girl was way over her head and a good example that to step it up (whether that means C IV or V) you not only need skill (yes, rolls are important) by experience and experience dealing with bad situations (why did she keep her paddle go back to her boat instead of shore? - maybe she didn't know about the sieve/risk and that's another problem.)


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## lmyers (Jun 10, 2008)

Do you know which section of the Chattooga that was? Doesn't look very difficult, just spots you don't want to swim into. Reminds me a bit of Elevenmile, I have seen people swim through 3 different sieves in that short class III/IV- stretch.


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## MikeThulin1972 (Mar 23, 2012)

Just moved out west from NC.. GA paddler if u can paddle both sections of ocoee and section 3-4 chatooga and u should be running rapids on pigeon and nanty backwards ..even though the only thing close to continuous in southeast is cheoah!!!
Run all this then go to tallulah ..


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

lhowemt said:


> That girl was way over her head and a good example that to step it up (whether that means C IV or V) you not only need skill (yes, rolls are important) by experience and experience dealing with bad situations


"You learn good judgement from experience; you gain experience by: exercising poor judgement." --Reg Lake












OP, exercise poor judgement (as we all do when we're learning) on mellow rivers where the consequences are easily dealt with. When the likely consequences of poor judgement on tougher rivers include fatality, you want to have an A game to bring.


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## ouachita (May 27, 2009)

lmyers said:


> Do you know which section of the Chattooga that was? Doesn't look very difficult, just spots you don't want to swim into. Reminds me a bit of Elevenmile, I have seen people swim through 3 different sieves in that short class III/IV- stretch.


 
That's Hydroelectric rock in Section 4. Somewhere on the interwebs is a good video about a guy that was wedged in there for a long time, was extracted, and resusitated! I think it's one of those "I Shouldn't be alive" type videos.

If you haven't seen it google Oceana on youtube to see the river the OP is referring to. It's a nasty looking thing.


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## MikeThulin1972 (Mar 23, 2012)

She swam hydro at pretty low water.. Less than a foot I would guess.. A rafter dyed there this season at 2 feet... So it's not to be taken lightly ..


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## ouachita (May 27, 2009)

Tallulah River - YouTube

Heres a good Tallulah video


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## DoubleYouEss (Oct 4, 2011)

Just remember, don't look at the Thing...


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## smauk2 (Jun 24, 2009)

Oceana is an incredible looking rapid, that hole is gnarls! 









Google









Google

The run looks like a classic.
American Whitewater - 5 - Tallulah Gorge to Lake Tugaloo, Tallulah Georgia, US

Tallulah Gorge - YouTube


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## glenn (May 13, 2009)

ProLines on Vimeo


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## JCarrigg (Feb 18, 2012)

I'm still curious about what he's been using other than a WW kayak. Duckie? Lower end kayak? Raft? 

I've been in this same situation when I was looking for other people to go out with and hit harder rivers. Truth is, I wasn't ready for it. These guys on a lot of these videos run this stuff like its no problem and make it all look effortless. This rarely a sport where you can go from zero to hero. Maybe you're better than I was. But after getting my ass handed to me a time or two it changed my perspective. I strongly urge a swift water rescue class and good knowledge and practice of safety equipment. 

Lastly, all of these comments aren't to bash you or discourage asking questions. It's all very good advice and should be taken into consideration. What ever you decide to do....put your safety and the safety of others first.


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## DangerousDave (Apr 11, 2007)

*Class II-III to Tallulah*

It will take a lot of work to go from the Cartecay to Tallulah in a year. Here are some suggestions for marking your progress. Try the Nantahala, Section 3 of the Chattooga, Ocoee, Section 4 Chattooga, Tellico, Cheoah and maybe North Chickamauga. You should be solid reading and running everything easier than North Chick. Be sure to run Section 4 and Tellico at decent water levels (>2' on Chattoga and >2.5' on Tellico) before attempting North Chick.

You need to be able to read the water and pick your own lines and not simply follow the back grab loop of the boat in front of you.

To start, I'd suggest working on catching small eddies, playing hard and attaining easy rapids to make more boating sharper.

I'd recommend a park and huck at Baby Falls on the Tellico and at the bottom ledge of Bald River Falls near the confluence with the Tellico. These drops are miniscule compared to the big ones on Tallulah.


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## smauk2 (Jun 24, 2009)

glenn said:


> ProLines on Vimeo


Yes!


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## GeorgiaGuy (Jan 12, 2013)

JCarrigg said:


> What are you currently using?


 Potomac 100es


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## GeorgiaGuy (Jan 12, 2013)

JCarrigg said:


> I'm still curious about what he's been using other than a WW kayak. Duckie? Lower end kayak? Raft?


Recreational.. Potomac 100es


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## mhelm (Jun 28, 2008)

That is actually Jawbone in the Five Falls section on Section IV, which actually ends in the same lake as the Tallulah. The video is very low flow, and she is lucky there was no debris in there like I've seen on multiple occasions. That section is actually class IV-V depending on the water level, and has many undercuts and sieves. Above 2.5ft, it's a pretty rockin section of river, but still a lot less committing than the Tallulah Gorge!

I'd say stick with easier sections of the Chattooga, Ocoee, and even the Nantahala. The Cartacay River near Ellijay even has some good rapids at higher flows. Be safe, and don't jump levels too soon...


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## Mut (Dec 2, 2004)

"Besides getting used to the new boat, what should I do to better prepare myself for a much more exciting river without jumping off the deep end and crossing my fingers?"

Dude,
Simply post here a bunch and magically you turn into a class V boater. It worked for me.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

GeorgiaGuy said:


> Really want to go down the Tallulah Gorge in the northeast corner of Georgia. I have a good 2 years under my belt, practically lived on a class 2 river last summer. I've managed many class 3 rapids with no difficulty, but I'm looking at buying an actual whitewater boat.
> 
> Besides getting used to the new boat, what should I do to better prepare myself for a much more exciting river without jumping off the deep end and crossing my fingers?


I'm just baffled.
WHY do you want to run Class V? Are you enamored with all the cool videos of people hucking waterfalls and running continuous rapids? It's fucking terrifying.

You want excitement? Run Class 3 rivers, not just manage a single Class 3 rapid in an otherwise Class 2 run. Then run those Class 3 rivers with style. Surf every wave, play every eddy. Run it sideways and backwards. When all those little moves get easy, and you want some excitement, find some III+ and some IV-. Those runs have rapids and some holes that can still eat your lunch.

Then, as others have said, move to IV and IV+ and play them until you're blue in the face (figuratively). When you're ready for V, you'll know.

If it's excitement you want, I'm afraid you need to learn to find it yourself. You won't find it in a number.


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## coloclimber512 (Aug 29, 2009)

From reading the original post it didn't seem that he wants to run "class 5" as much as the title suggests. He simply wants to know how to train for Tallulah Gorge this fall. IMHO this is a reasonable goal. Whether it is achieved or not, nobody will know until November. That is plenty of time to get lots of days on the water to get the skills needed, and re evaluate closer to when you plan on giving it a go. And I'm talking like 50+ days. You might find that when the time comes you feel another season is needed to get to that level, big deal. Wait till next season. You will already have a season under your belt so another 50+ days and you will have a pretty good idea where your at. 

Every state has that classic hard run that new paddlers dream about getting on from when they start. Around here its Bailey and Gore. The early season new paddler that's a go getter, wonders if they will do either of these runs by the end of the season. Believe it or not some people do reach these goals and do it safely, while having lots of fun progressing to next level with their buddies.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

coloclimber512 said:


> Every state has that classic hard run that new paddlers dream about getting on from when they start. Around here its Bailey and Gore. The early season new paddler that's a go getter, wonders if they will do either of these runs by the end of the season. Believe it or not some people do reach these goals and do it safely, while having lots of fun progressing to next level with their buddies.


Here it's the Swan River/Wild Mile.

I finally ran it this summer after 15 years of boating. It scared me.
I'll stay on the porch with the other puppies and keep yapping. :lol:


OP, I hope this is a burning desire and a full commitment and not just a "no fear death wish". If you make it, I'll buy you a beer.


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