# gore canyon Whitewater Festival 2007



## stinky (Aug 21, 2006)

I just went to the rapidpulse website and they declared that they are no longer running the gore canyon whitewater festival due to lack of funding. Last year was my first time at the festival. 

What will become of the festival. Is there still a chance that it could happen?


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## TimWalker (Oct 25, 2003)

I'm sure some other sponsor will pick it up. What would be nice is if it got scaled down to the late 90's formats. But if anyone knows what's up, give up the beta.


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## caspermike (Mar 9, 2007)

no gore festival? than we will have to make one, all boaters meet up and have a giant boatercross event everybody start at once! carnage carnage and more carnage anybody up?


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## JCKeck1 (Oct 28, 2003)

Gorefest is always the 3rd (saturday) weekend in august. This year it's August 18, sponsors or no. Can't wait.
Joe


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## twitch (Oct 16, 2003)

*gore*

TM - not so much a sponsorship thing, though that likely was one contributing factor. Much thanks is owed to Mr. Mark Joffe for his efforts in recent years at Gore.

JK - Yup....see you there. What's the attire? Pink boat and a cape?


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## erdvm1 (Oct 17, 2003)

We'll be there
with Baby in Tow....................
GORE FEST GORE FEST GORE FEST!!!!


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## yourrealdad (May 25, 2004)

You know I will be there, and if it wasn't for a stupid broken paddle I would have beaten you all in my Kingpin. this year though I have a secret weapon. Things that make you go hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.


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## kclowe (May 25, 2004)

*GoreFest*

Hello,
I have actually been trying to get some information about this. Mark broke the news to me in March. I think the biggest issue we have currently is insurance coverage and the money to pay for it.


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## kclowe (May 25, 2004)

My last thread cut me off!
Anyway, I haven't heard anything since then. 
Mark, can you let us know if that was the issue?
I have spoken to Mike at New Belgium and they are still planning to help us out. I could probably handle the volunteers, safety, security, beer garden and the vendors if necessary. CW usually covers the permits, beer garden insurance (I think) and liquor licenses and does all of the paperwork (thanks a lot Patrick). Unfortunately, I can't do anything for the competition side of things. Also, we are going to have to deal with the legal stuff. Anyone want to handle that?
I don't see why we can't have GoreFest anyway. Mark did a great job and I'm sad to see him go. We'll definitely have to lose some of the frills, but who needs that anyway?
Feel free to PM me if you have some ideas or comments (please be kind).

Kim


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## raftus (Jul 20, 2005)

No matter what we are going to go to gore for the third weekend in August. I will volunteer to design the T-shirts.


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## Sam F (Jun 27, 2005)

Hello all,

Mark is in Korea right now at the IRF Worlds, so I'll cover what I can. 

Funding really was the big hold up for the organized event Mark has been running. In order to hold the event, Insurance was required for every participant, the BLM, the railroad and the overall event. My understanding was that Mark and the ACA had an agreement in the past for the paddlers, but it wasn't logistically possible this year so his costs went up.

There were also costs involved with the Permits from BLM, toilets, trash, etc. etc. Many thanks as always to those sponsors who brought in money or In-kind donations to help defray the costs.

Mark worked through the winter trying to secure a major title sponsor without success. The only other way to defray the cost would be to increase the entrance fees ($25-$30 higher per person?) Obviously that idea wasn't ever seriously considered. The average paddler is already tapped out. So the only choice was to cancel.

If a sponsor were to materialize, Mark would by all means produce something. Without a sponsor, the liability for Rapidpulse and Mark (without insurance) is too high.

Enjoy Gore its a blast right now.


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## shuttelhunny (Jun 4, 2007)

I am up to organize the comp........ who organized it last year??? Consider boater recruitment, safety, timing, and judges done, done and done- however permits may take a minute of work.......


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## randomnature (Jun 10, 2007)

*How much*

Any idea how much money we are talking about?


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## Sam F (Jun 27, 2005)

Posted for Mark:

"Mark Joffe here, the Gore Festival Event Organizer: It was a difficult 
decision to cancel the Gore Race. We have manged to build it up to a fun 
festival with some great racing and I was planning to make it even 
smother this year. However due to my loss of the insurance and also the 
need to put in better control for the event due to its growing size I 
could not take the risk as I had no serious cash sponsor in place. I was 
looking for $12,000 to make it happen which is an extremely small amount 
of cash for an event of this size. This along with entry fees would 
cover the the costs.
I do want everyone to know that people like Hobie, Mark at Keen, Matt 
Solomon and Teva where being very supportive in trying to make this 
happen but they to had trouble finding the cash necessary to make this 
happen. I also want to be very clear that the BLM has been nothing but 
supportive of this race and worked extremely hard to try and make it a 
success and are also upset it is not happening at this point. If I am 
able to find the cash I know we can work out a way to get the festival 
going.
I know people will be at Gore race weekend irregardless, but please 
respect the BLM and their regulations and stay off the railway at all 
times. I am in Korea and will be back in the USA July 5th. If anyone 
wants to email me directly please feel free to: [email protected].
Thanks
Mark Joffe"


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## randomnature (Jun 10, 2007)

*smaller sponsors*

What do you think the lieklyhood of getting a number of smaller sponsors? First Bank or Alpine Bank, Ginn, Local Businesses. 25 x $500 = $12,500. Liquor Stores?? I'd do some canvassing.


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## erdvm1 (Oct 17, 2003)

Just throwing my 2 cents in.......As an event organizer it is very hard to come up with money in such a short period of time. From my position (Not speaking for Mark) If everyone is serious about offering to help then you should just Go for it......Gain some major Sponsorship commitments (ie $$$) then present it to Mark after you've got the commitment and see if he can still pull it off.....Time is for sure running out. It's a lot to ask Mark to pull off in such a short period of time but with some real aggressive and motivated people getting the cash in hand GORE FEST could still happen. (anyone have a super rich uncle that wants to be the guest of honor??) Call or email me and I can help you put together a marketing packet for you sales pitch!!!


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## Livingston (Jan 8, 2004)

*unsponsored please*

I say keep it small. Informal race with everyone bringing their own $10 timex to see who won. Start whenever you want, no need to wake up early. No shutting down the river to non-competitors or whatever stupid shit would happen this year. Who needs all those cops and drug dogs? And why pay for beer that you should just be pulling out of your own cooler anyway? I hate wearing wristbands. 

-d


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## RP (Aug 25, 2004)

The gore race is not a small race no matter what you want to think. It has grown in size and as such the reality is there needs to be a descent structure in place to make it an enjoyable experience for everyone. This includes small things like making sure people are there to help you park your car so there is space for everyone and you dont get stuck out in the overflow lot because someone took 4 spaces. It stops probelems before they happen so there is never any need for the cops and dogs. Also for all of you at Gore last year I think this issue was completely resolved and there was a lot of support and balance from the BLM. 

As for the beer it has always been my philosophy to support the industry that supports me. Every cent made from the beer sales went to non profit organizations to help protect rivers like the Colorado or the US mens and womens raft teams. None of it was ever used to support rapidpulse or the event itself. Everyone should be lining up to buy beers in this instance so you can ensure the right to paddle rivers as a kayaker when you want. 

I also remeber the free shuttle services for the kayakers to help them get to the river last year which meant no closure of any kind.

In regards to the race there is nothing wrong with trying grassroots but do you know what it takes to do an emegency evacuation in case of an accident and who is involved from the boaters to all the various private and government agencies. Do you realise the negative effects boaters will have to incur if people walk on the railway tracks? It is the reason the dogs and cops where at Gore in 2005. 

I would hate to see all the good that the comunity has done in the past 2 years building the necessary relations go to waste and back to square one. 
I beleive that all the people that attended the last gore races should be proud of being a part of a great festival and that they where part of a good thing that had positive results.

If you all get togehter and make a race happen please work with the BLM, Union Pacific and each other so it remains a good place for all of us now and in the future.

Mark


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## Livingston (Jan 8, 2004)

I somewhat dissagree with you Mark. It is my opinion that it is the circus tents, New Belgium keg truck, bands, and advertising that bring the crowds. Without all of that, you won't have pedestrians walking up to Gore or Tunnel rapid or the need for cops and dogs. The weekends before and especially after the race will see very few cars at the put-in. I was one of 3 groups the 4th weekend of August last year. Never saw more than 9 cars at the put in other than the race weekend itself. 

As for the emergency evacuation. It would be as it is every other weekend at Gore or any other river in Colorado for paddlers simply running it. Racers though are different, I agree. If there ends up being a grass-roots race, there either needs to be well organized safety or the racers better be familiar with the run and aware of the consquences. It has been repeated many times that this is the weekend to try out Gore because of the additional safety. Something new organizers need to take into consideration.

I think we are mainly dissagreeing about the Gore festival not the Gore race. The race is always well staffed, organized, and executed. I prefere to watch from Tunnel and take my time as I run it (my only race back in 01 or 02 resulted in a swim at Tunnel and second to last place with a time in the 40 something minute range). BTW, I am an AW member and drinking a New Belgium Skinny Dip right now.

-d


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## akblair (Apr 27, 2004)

*Update?*

Does anyone have any new information on this?


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## raft3plus (Apr 24, 2004)

*Will there even be a race at all?*

Thanks for bringing this up again. Some of us are trying to plan for the fall season ahead, OR, ID, gauley, peru, etc.. and it would be good to know what exactly, if anything is going to happen on that 3rd Saturday next month.

..so there won't be a festival, that appears to be clear based on Mark and Kim's comments. Will there be an official/unofficial race, is AW showing up, is anyone even interested in running that Saturday, are people doing their own timing if so, anyone, Bueller?


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## sbratt (May 10, 2006)

*No formal race*

It's my understanding that the permit needed to be pulled 180 days before (not 90 anymore) the event. New gov regs. World's for rafting is every other year and this lines up with the off year (I think) so it's not a qualifier then. For the kayakers, it'll likely be a question of who shows up and bunch of folks having fun. Maybe a informal race but that raises the usual questions of not pissing off the railroad or BLM, etc. Be smart and have fun. Keep a good eye out for the weaker boaters if it's a madhouse in the canyon. Though with the recent policing on rivers, 600 + kayakers at the take out without permits may get some attention from the local law enforcement.
Fire it up!


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## ecarlson972 (Apr 24, 2007)

*Heads up*

I read this article a while back and all the talk about having an unofficial race made me think of it. I think it is a bunch of BS but I could see it happening up there

The Denver Post - Risking a ticket to ride


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## Waterwindpowderrock (Oct 11, 2003)

I'm sure the blm will have something to say about it, but we just need to explain that there's NO EVENT, just a get together among friends. Whether it's 10 or 100 it's just not a race or event.


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## caspermike (Mar 9, 2007)

*damn right*

im planning on being there already. festival or not, I have vacation days already lined out for that weekend. blm can't say "we can't all be down there" we are all private boaters. 

anybody know if the whitestrip (breck park and huck) has water right now


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## KSC (Oct 22, 2003)

It's an interesting topic. What constitutes a formal event that requires a BLM permit? Anyone know what the specific wording is? I mean yes, we could all just say we're private boaters happening to show up on the same day, but a) they're not stupid, and b) if you're reading this, it safe to assume someone from BLM is reading this as well.


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## ecarlson972 (Apr 24, 2007)

The thing that bothers me is that the BLM is most likely reading this and they will wait until that weekend and then write the tickets. Why dont they speak up in this forum let everyone know what they need to do?


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## Waterwindpowderrock (Oct 11, 2003)

ok, I'm boating that weekend so the rest of you just stay home, I don't want a ticket!!

this is BS


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## stillkicken (Nov 30, 2003)

At least with the Forest service so I'd guess it's the same with the BLM the difference between an event that requires a permit and a bunch of folks getting together is mostly charging and collecting fees and providing services for those fees. Another thing that might cause problems is broad based advertising like posters, newspaper ads, aricles in the paper promoting an event that sort of thing. 

A bunch of paddling buddies who use an internet fourm to keep in touch who get together to paddle Gore shouldn't a problem. What could be a problem is if a horde of people show up at the Pump House camp ground and exceed it's capacity and party loudly all night etc so that might be something the think about.


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## yetigonecrazy (May 23, 2005)

regardless of an official "event" status or not, bottom line, you get a bunch of kayakers and white water afficianados together and you will have the "horde of people show up at the Pump House camp ground and exceed it's capacity and party loudly all night etc". its human nature, especially among boaters, who are known to to have a good time both on and off the river......


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## stillkicken (Nov 30, 2003)

I wasn't attempting to say whether lot's of boaters on the river at one time or partying all night at Pump was was good or bad. I was only trying to answer the question of in my experience of promoting events on public lands, what actions might raise the ire of the BLM if a bunch of folks wanted to do a spontainious Gore Fest.

An informal DR race on Gore without entry fees shouldn't be a problem. A big all night party at Pump House might be different if the camp ground regs where being violated. (IE capacity, noise, drugs, etc) I suppose it would depend on if someone complained. 

As far as what human nature is I think I'll stay away from that one....


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## Caspian (Oct 14, 2003)

caspermike said:


> blm can't say "we can't all be down there" we are all private boaters.


But reality is that is exactly what they will say if you don't have a permit and your group is over whatever their size limit is. Try to dance around it as you might, the law is not blind to the true reality of a gathering like that. And by law I mean the court, not the rangers. Calling something an informal gathering of friends or saying that it's not 75 people, it's five groups of 15 won't hold any water at all. A judge will read between the lines quickly. Just the way it is.



ecarlson972 said:


> The thing that bothers me is that the BLM is most likely reading this and they will wait until that weekend and then write the tickets. Why dont they speak up in this forum let everyone know what they need to do?


So how's this for a radical idea...contact the BLM and find out what the regulation is? Then you don't have to worry about a showdown with the cops after the race...maybe kinda like the organizers have done in the past...crazy, I know.


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## yetigonecrazy (May 23, 2005)

but they might say no and then all the fun is over.....so lets steal the cookies first and plead ignorance later...thats the american thing to do isnt it?


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## caspermike (Mar 9, 2007)

*ahah*

so if 50 people from different areas all meet, how can they prove that we are not private boaters? just catching that last bet of the colorado season is what you should say. as long as you say private they can't touch you. what are they going to do, walk to the starting line? we the people have the right to peaceful assembly, no matter what! freedom of speech!


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## Caspian (Oct 14, 2003)

Well, for starters they can read this thread, right? You're not out of your gourd in your thinking, and you can certainly make an argument that it is _technically _a bunch of small private, unaffiliated groups. But it would still be really obvious that an event is going on, even if the BLM hadn't read the thread - but we also know that the management agencies do visit the Buzz. I don't think there is any doubt about that now. And in reality, an event _would _be going on, and that is the kind of thing where a judge (or jury) would still see through the ruse of being individual groups and uphold whatever citation was written. 

I'm not saying don't do the event. I think many of these kind of regulations are stupid. (Although, I've picked up enough garbage next to Four Falls that I know that not all kayakers are as impact-free as we'd like to believe.) What I am saying is that if the event is done under the radar like that and the BLM shows up ticket-book in hand (which is what I would expect) then no one should be surprised when they get cited or that it gets upheld if they contest it. Maybe I'd be proven wrong, but I wouldn't hold my breath.


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## deepsouthpaddler (Apr 14, 2004)

I talked to the BLM today. The main guy to talk to (Andy) is out of the office currently. They are aware that the "official race" is canceled. I talked to another lady from the Kremmling office. She noted that dispersed camping on BLM land is OK, so I don't think that there will be an issue with numbers after the official campground is full. She didn't seem to think that there would be any big issues with a bunch of private boaters showing up and camping and boating (thats what the campground is there for!). 

I will call Andy back next week and talk to him about it. This seems like a good time to communicate proactively with the BLM to avoid potential problems. As long as we have minimal impact, play by the campground rules, bring the firepans and pick up our trash, there shouldn't be an issue. 

Issues for the boating community to sort out are shuttles and how to do an informal race.

My two cents is have racers bring their own waterproof watch with a stopwatch function. Have somebody at gear up eddy turn the stopwatch on and give it to the racer. Have somebody at the bottom of kirschbaum's stop the watch and record the time. Probably need to figure out safety at the different rapids as in the normal race etc. 

It would be a shame not to at least have an unofficial race...


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## cbrobin (Jan 21, 2004)

*Big Brother is Watching*

The BLM is definately reading the buzz. When we got to the Gore put-in yesterday a woman came up to us from the BLM and asked if we were the group from Mountain Buzz.

A liitle scary.


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## Ture (Apr 12, 2004)

cbrobin said:


> The BLM is definately reading the buzz. When we got to the Gore put-in yesterday a woman came up to us from the BLM and asked if we were the group from Mountain Buzz.
> 
> A liitle scary.


That's funny. There is no such thing as the group from Mountain Buzz. This is an online forum. A form of communiciation. The big difference between this and the phone is that we know for sure the government is watching this communication. With your phone you just kind of know but you aren't sure.


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## yetigonecrazy (May 23, 2005)

deepsouthpaddler said:


> I talked to the BLM today. The main guy to talk to (Andy) is out of the office currently. They are aware that the "official race" is canceled. I talked to another lady from the Kremmling office. She noted that dispersed camping on BLM land is OK, so I don't think that there will be an issue with numbers after the official campground is full. She didn't seem to think that there would be any big issues with a bunch of private boaters showing up and camping and boating (thats what the campground is there for!).
> 
> I will call Andy back next week and talk to him about it. This seems like a good time to communicate proactively with the BLM to avoid potential problems. As long as we have minimal impact, play by the campground rules, bring the firepans and pick up our trash, there shouldn't be an issue.
> 
> ...


hey man, big thanks for doing that. this is exactly what we needed to do, so thanks for getting that out of the way.

i think if a lot of people show up, maybe just have a big get together friday night and figure out some rules/shuttle/timing, etc the night before? certainly with as many educated people who are very flexible as there will be in the group it shouldnt be hard to figure logistics out for an unofficial thing....any thoughts?

as to the them reading the buzz, the worst thing we can do is trash talk the blm. if everyone follows the rules (mostly) then we should be ok, right?


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## cbrobin (Jan 21, 2004)

Quote:
Originally Posted by *cbrobin*  
_The BLM is definately reading the buzz. When we got to the Gore put-in yesterday a woman came up to us from the BLM and asked if we were the group from Mountain Buzz.

A liitle scary._

That's funny. There is no such thing as the group from Mountain Buzz. This is an online forum. A form of communiciation. The big difference between this and the phone is that we know for sure the government is watching this communication. With your phone you just kind of know but you aren't sure.



Thats what she asked us. If fact our group consisted of two groups living a few hundred miles apart that got together on the Buzz. It worked great. I don't put a whole lot of effort into correcting other people's english.


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## Jeff Harris (Aug 14, 2006)

*Gore feast*

I always figurered Gore Feast was Colorado's kayakings party! for people to celebrate running class 5! or just trying to step it up a notch.Just be my 5th year up there and it's on my calender. Last year was great even if i did get ID'd for beer born in 67 ? and sleept on top of my tent! All good lines on the river feuled my spirt's! not that a bad line!would have stoped me from having fun! Gone camping kayaking etc...see you up there.

Jeff H
.


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## PattyNYCO (Mar 21, 2005)

Hey all,

I've been told the guy to talk to is John Ruhs at the BLM out of Kremmling if that helps anyone who may be making calls.


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## Waterwindpowderrock (Oct 11, 2003)

I've got to stop by there on sat to pick up my permit for gore, do folks think that it's worth it to talk to them? Or do we just play dumb?

I don't mind talking to them, but at this point is there anything positive that could come of it?


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## deepsouthpaddler (Apr 14, 2004)

When I called the Kremmling office, I was told Andy Winsor was the guy to talk to and that he would not be back in the office til next monday. I planned on calling him back then. I can ask about the other guy too.

If you are going to be up there, it doesn't hurt to talk to them. They might just say wait for the main guy to get back. Proactive, friendly discussions can't hurt.


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## freeheelintodd (Aug 7, 2005)

The BLM is in charge of special use permits within their area.(like mountain bike races, running races etc.) If there is a race, they will most likely find out, so the permit would be legally required. There are 2 legal ways around it: 1. get a permit 2.just gather, boat and party. I think by this point the BLM knows where and when so being proactive and trying to work things out would be a good bet. Ill be there to atleast boat.


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## farp (Nov 4, 2003)

freeheelintodd said:


> The BLM is in charge of special use permits within their area.(like mountain bike races, running races etc.) If there is a race, they will most likely find out, so the permit would be legally required. There are 2 legal ways around it: 1. get a permit 2.just gather, boat and party. I think by this point the BLM knows where and when so being proactive and trying to work things out would be a good bet. Ill be there to atleast boat.


I agree. Remember the Rainbows up by Steamboat last summer? That pissed the Forest Service off something fierce. 

I'm not comparing a bunch of hard-core boaters to the Rainbows, but I think notifying the BLM and trying to work with them is a much better idea than thumbing your nose at them.


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## Waterwindpowderrock (Oct 11, 2003)

my concern is that the permit process is long gone at this point, so one possibility is that we just make them more aware that we're going to be there & create more of a problem. Normally I would be all for proactive discussion, but I'm concerned about the timing.


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## caspermike (Mar 9, 2007)

*trust is the problem*

we need to take on the responsiblilty and show the blm that we can be trusted. 0 injury for and unoficially event would be awsome. how it all plays out at the camp ground and put in is how the blm will probably determine our attitudes towards them and the land. 

everybody treat the land with respect and lets have a lot of fun.


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## Paul the Kayaker (Nov 7, 2004)

Here is my concern, and I would love to see if anyone thought it was important. Usually with the race and the festival sponsored we have plenty of water at the end of the year, is this because the water board helps us out for the national raft race. It always seems to be around 1200 for the race week, or do they just start to release at the end of summer. My worry this year, without the national race, and the sponsored festival will there be water. I mean Gore right now is a sorry little creek in my opinion, and 1000 is pretty much the cut off in my book. So where do you think we stand on water for the end of august.

PtheK


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## gh (Oct 13, 2003)

Is the festival usually the 3rd weekend of August?


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## Fuzzy (May 25, 2005)

Does anybody know if Justin Cyder is gonna race this year??


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## Marielle (Jul 14, 2007)

It would have been Aug 17-19. I'm wondering who all is still planning to go out there and have a good time? Even if people can't or don't want to run Gore - who's going anyway?


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## jmack (Jun 3, 2004)

Regarding Gore Canyon Aug 17-19, things to be worried about:

1) getting pounded at Tunnel.
2) getting arrested by the BLM.
3) the sanitary condition of the shitters by Sunday morning.

Things not to be worried about:

1) Whether kayakers will show up and have a good time.


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## Marielle (Jul 14, 2007)

Excellent....


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## kclowe (May 25, 2004)

*Be safe and have a great time!*

I am not planning to head out there this year. I am very sad that the festival isn't going to happen, but the area just can't support that many people without the extra "amenities". Everyone be safe and have a GREAT weekend. Please be kind to the BLM rangers because they have been very helpful getting GoreFest back on track after it was "derailed" (sorry about the pun). I am hoping that we can maintain the good relationship and have the festival next year. Never too early to start planning.
I would advise working out bail before you leave town:roll: 

Kim


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## KSC (Oct 22, 2003)

So far the only information I've heard beyond speculating is from Deepsouth, who called BLM and was told that it should not be a problem as long as the dispersed camping is used after the Pumphouse grounds are filled, and one guy from the forest service who guessed that an informal race organized on the internet would be no problem as long as loud partying at the campground was kept in check. 

Honestly, I haven't heard a thing to scare anyone off. Stay off the railroad tracks, bring a groover, use the dispersed camping, and be chill. Sounds like no problem to me, even a bunch of dumb boaters can follow these rules. Should be good times. I'm leaving bail money at home.


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## randomnature (Jun 10, 2007)

*Self policing*

It will be interesting tor see what happens when our corner of the world turns in to Rocky Mountain National Park,Washington D.C., Bad Lands, Arches or any other beautiful national park. 

I really do think that the BLM wants only three things:

1) That people have fun and can enjoy the public lands 

2) That people are safe (from others and themselves) 

3) That they do not have to clean up after people.

Can the boating community do it without the BLM, Sherriff, and big dollar sponsors? Lets see...

Don't forget to bring LOTS of the Husky contractor bags.


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## hobie (Nov 3, 2003)

:-xFast race lines Sunday. See you in a couple weeks.


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## andyatBLM (Aug 3, 2007)

*BLM's Reply*

Hey guys, whether it’s the official or “unofficial” Gore Race, it needs a Special Recreation Permit (SRP) from the Bureau of Land Management. Without that authorization, participants face fines, jail time, and civil repercussions. It’s serious stuff, and at this point it’s too late for this year to get an SRP for August. 

Why? BLM issues SRPs to implement recreation management objectives and ensure fair return to the public for recreation uses on BLM lands and waterways. SRPs are required for commercial activities (e.g. outfitting businesses), competitive events (e.g. river races), organized groups (e.g. large groups that are not commercial or competitive), and for individuals in special areas (e.g. river permits for private parties in Westwater Canyon). The Gore Canyon Race – officially authorized or otherwise – is competitive and therefore requires an SRP.

So we’re asking that you help us out and hold off this year so we can ensure we have another great event next year. Gorefest is an increasingly complicated event that requires a great deal of planning and work up-front. We have a number of issues that make this a complex event - parking, camping, congestion at Pumphouse, and potential safety issues surrounding the event (Class V whitewater, the adjoining railroad tracks, communications, and emergency evacuations). We also need to do a great deal of coordination with the railroad, which has a number of concerns. These are all things that are worked out through the SRP process – that’s why it can take so long.

A little background might help. BLM met with Mark Joffee on February 21, 2007 to discuss the 2007 festival. Mr. Joffee presented his preliminary proposal and discussed possible changes to the 2006 operations. A schedule for meeting permit requirements was developed and agreed to by BLM and Mr. Joffee. By mid April BLM started hearing rumors that Rapid Pulse was not going to organize the event this year. A call to Mr. Joffee confirmed the rumor.

BLM did not hear any other news about the event until early July when I received a call from Lisa Reeder of Timberline Tours inquiring about a permit. Ms. Reeder had recently learned that a permit had not been secured for the race and wanted to know what would be required. I informed Ms. Reeder that BLM permit policy calls for applications to be submitted 180 days prior to an event. Based on the historic nature of the event and the progress that BLM, race organizers, and the railroad had made over the past few years, I told Ms. Reeder that I would talk to the managers in the office and see if BLM would make an exception. The decision was to not process a permit application. The decision was based on the complexity of the event and the need to maintain consistency with policy. BLM determined that it was unreasonable to issue a permit in such a short period of time. I informed Ms. Reeder of the decision and conveyed BLM’s commitment to work with her on a permit for a 2008 race. We agreed to start the process in January of 2008.

BLM has enjoyed a positive, and improving, relationship with both the organizers of past events and the railroad in the planning and administration of the Gore Canyon Race SRP. BLM commends Mr. Joffee and Ms. Reeder for their commitment to the sport of whitewater boating and the Gore Canyon Race. BLM Kremmling recognizes Gore Canyon as national whitewater resource and its importance to the whitewater boating community. We are committed to working with the whitewater community and event organizers to ensure the 2008 event is a safe and successful event.


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## crane (Oct 25, 2006)

Scary. The "Man" is everywhere!


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## cristal (Jun 29, 2005)

Dear BLM 
Please clarify for us all,
Does this mean that if I and a few friends show up at pumphouse on the weekend of the 17th, just as we might any random weekend of the year, to do a little boating and camping-again, JUST AS WE MIGHT ON ANY GIVEN WEEKEND, we're going to face harassment and ticketing by the BLM? Does the BLM plan on just shutting the entire area down from gore to statebridge for this weekend? Because I'm not really sure how the BLM would decide WHO to ticket, fine, arrest, whatever and who NOT to ticket, etc. We are all private boaters, how will it be decided who's there for "Gore Fest" and who might just be there anyway? Would the obvious clueless tourists get left alone? Should we all just speak with Texas accents and pretend to be fishing? 
(No particular offense meant to clueless people, tourists, Texans, fishers, or any combination thereof)


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## COUNT (Jul 5, 2005)

andyatBLM said:


> The Gore Canyon Race – officially authorized or otherwise – is competitive and therefore requires an SRP.



So if nobody races no permits are necessary, correct? A handful of people decide to run a classic [and public] stretch of river. No permits necessary, no tickets, etc.


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## deepsouthpaddler (Apr 14, 2004)

*Clarification...*

posted before I was finished....


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## deepsouthpaddler (Apr 14, 2004)

I spoke with Andy at length about the situation. He is reasonable and friendly and wants to see the Gore event prosper in the future. What I got out of the discussion was...



*No race*. Whether informal, formal, sponsored, unsponsered etc. Organizing any kind of race would violate the BLM's permitting rules and they will issue citations. They know about mountainbuzz, so shit talking, or trying to organize something underground will only strain boater and BLM relations. They have a job to do, and I respect that. Its a bummer that there will be no race, but the boating community didn't figure out a way to get it done this year. Time to start planning for next year to bring it back. 


*OK to boat Gore.* It is OK to boat Gore and camp at pumphouse that weekend. The BLM facilities are set up for boating and camping, so its OK to do that. There could be problems with lots of people showing up with little organization, so the boating community needs to work together to do the right thing (which we would do anyway, right?) The BLM hopes that crowds will be minimized by not having "the race", but understands that boaters will show up that weekend regardless.



*Boating*
-Do not use the railroad tracks! Major issue! Spread the word.
-Be safe. Paddle with a solid group. Don't boat over your limits. There will not be organized safety this year. The BLM is concerned that boaters trying to step up could get into big trouble and that there will be no organized safety and evacuation set up. 
-Be cautious, be safe. 
-No race. The BLM takes this seriously. 



*Put In*
-Carpool and shuttle as efficiently as possible
-Do not block traffic on the road while parking
-Parking off the side of the road is OK as long as you are not on vegetation
-Allow space for commercial outfitters to access put in
-Consider having shuttle bunny drive vehicle back to takeout.
-BLM noted that if you are parked illegally or blocking access don't be suprised if you get towed.



*Pumphouse / Takeout*
-After campsites are filled, dispersed camping is OK
-BLM asked to limit groups in campsites to 10 or less
-Standard river camping practices: firepan, pack out trash, groover if you are dispersed camping away from pumphouse
-Minimize conflicts with other pumphouse users. Floaters, fishermen etc will be using pumphouse as a put in. Try to be courteous.
-There will be extra day parking at pumphouse to accomodate additional boater traffic.


*Other Issues*
-The BLM understands that boaters want to boat Gore and they don't want to stop that.
-The BLM is concerned that a large gourp of boaters could cause problems by having more people present than the facilites can effectively handle. In the past this has been managed with a lot of up front prep work, communication, volunteers etc. 
T-he BLM wanted to ask boaters that can change their schedule to boat on other weekends to help minimize crowds if possible.
-The BLM noted that there will be law enforcement there to enforce the regulations.


So if boaters show up, work together, shuttle efficiently, are safe on the river, clean up after themselves, keep things chill and have a good time, there should not be a problem.


It also sounds like any screw ups will not be dealt with leniently and that parking issues, camping issues, user conflicts, rail road issues etc will be dealt with by enforcement that are present.


Other good ideas mentioned were to carpool up to Gore from home if possible to minimize traffic.


I think that the boating community can come together, have a good time at Gore, and mind the few common sense regulations that we would follow on any big weekend, overnighter, etc. 

A good showing this weekend will be a positive stepping stone to setting up a proper event next year. 


The big question is who is going to do it next year. Joffe / Rapidpulse picking it back up? AW / CW organizations taking it over? It should be sorted out by the end of the year to start permitting it early next year.


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## cristal (Jun 29, 2005)

Thanks,
I wasn't trying to shit talk the BLM, just wanted to know if there was going to be some ridiculous gestapo-type scene if a few of us decide to boat and camp that weekend. The previous post by AndyfromBLM(?not sure) kinda made it sound like anyone showing up to run Gore was going to be accused of trying to organize a race without a permit and be subjected to fines, ticketing, and arrest. So I was a bit concerned. But it sounds like the BLM plans on being reasonable as long as everyone uses common sense and is respectful-which shouldn't be a problem for most of us, at least.


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## raftus (Jul 20, 2005)

Deepsouth - Thank you for taking the lead on getting this info and distributing it. Hopefully we can all have a great weekend at Gore.


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## miker (Jan 26, 2006)

I wonder how many days it would take to get a permit if we had $12,000? 



8-ballers gonna show? I dare you.


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## caspermike (Mar 9, 2007)

*blm bullshit*

blm bull shit 

spread out over weekends bull shit.

what up with the post earlier from blm about what was okay unofficial is unofficial whats the problem? people choose to run gore almost everyday just because a big group is running it all together how is this not any safer than before? 

blm = bullies, im staying away that weekend im good without being thrown in jail and harrassed. even though i took that weekend off in february but blm wants everybody to try to plan for other weekends. 

blm thinks they are the fucking FBI

its not like anything special is happening. 180 days bull shit for permits? must take a long time for that peice of paper work to make it from one side of the desk to the other! might have to quite playing the card games on the computer for 2 seconds!

straight up bull shit 

remember yourbill of rights
if you are approached and plead

1 .right to a peacful assemble. and we do have the right not to agree!

4.for you people that are going to get searched for stuff most of you wont have. 

5 don't have to say anything! 

8 xcessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted


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## deepsouthpaddler (Apr 14, 2004)

Easy on the BLM Caspermike. Harshing on them won't do anything constructive. The boating community had the opportunity to make the Gore race work and it just didn't happen this year. Its not the BLM's fault that sponsors and organization didn't materialize in time. 

Here is my extended take on the BLM, gore race, etc.

The BLM has a job to do, like it or not. I do not fault them for doing their job. Gore runs on BLM land and they are tasked with managing it. If Gore were on my land it would be a different story, but its not. If 150 boaters show up and race with no permit and somebody drowns, gets injured, had issues with the railroad etc. you can bet the BLM will take major heat for it. You can also bet that screw ups this year could potentially lead to the end of the gore race permanently and could potentially screw up access. Think about your actions and their reprocussions. The high school attitude of F the man and the system will only hinder access to Gore in the future. Its a gem for boaters all over the west and one of the few things going late season. We have great access right now, and usually a kick ass party at the end of the season. Don't screw it up! 

The BLM is charged with managing the land for multiple uses, not just class V kayak races. There are a number of users including fisherman, rafters, campers, the railroad, commercial outfitters etc that want to have access to the same land that we do on that weekend. The level of use on Gore weekend is beyond the capacity that pumphouse was intended to handle, and to make sure things go smooth, you need planning and you need extra organization and staffing. A lot of work goes on behind the scenes so that we can show up, run gore, party at pumphouse and have a great weekend.

Planning includes working with the railroad to see what track activity will be during the weekend as well as setting up potential logistics to get injured boaters out of the canyon via the tracks. You don't call up the railroad a week before and set this up. According to the BLM there are over 20 trains a day running through the canyon. 

Planning also takes a while to get volunteers, shuttles, road logistics etc sorted out. 180 days does seem like a long time, but its the BLM rules, and you have to play by them on BLM land. 

As for the permitting process, the BLM runs on rules and regulations. The permit is not a slip of paper to sign, its a process that gets the communication and logistics worked out by all the major parties including the BLM, race organizers, sponsors, insurance, the railroad, outfitters etc. There are a lot of stakeholders out there that need to be in the loop to make this happen smoothly.

In my discussions with the BLM, they are honestly concerned about safety. They know boaters looking to step up go to Gore weekend because there will never be another time when there is more safety. The race organizers had volunteer safety boaters at every rapid, and folks ready with ropes etc. There were communication protocols set up and evacuations plans to get people out of the canyon. The BLM is worried that if an accident happens that boaters might try to use the railroad to get out and could have some serious issues with the trains. Another option would be a search and rescue mission into the canyon with no prior planning. The BLM doesn't want either of them. So a large amount of boaters with super organized safety is way more safe than a large amount of boaters with no organized safety. Some may take gore lightly as a fun run thats not too difficult, but the BLM sees it as a serious class V run with serious potential consequences.

So be reasonable, be respectful, do the right thing, and it won't be a problem.

Showing up to try to race, be spiteful, or start shit could sour relations with the BLM and ruin access for us all. 

If the BLM wanted to, the could close the canyon to private boating that weekend for lack of a permit. They are not doing that, they are just asking for the community to be responsible and the work with them due to the fact that permits and organization did not happen this year. I assured the BLM that the majority of boaters would gladly work with them to have a fun, safe time and that we would take care of the issues that the BLM lined out.

I was looking forward to gore this year just like everyone else. I personally will try to abide by the wishes of the BLM, because I'd like to continue running Gore, and I'd like to have continued access to one of the best runs on the colorado river.

Don't underestimate the negative consequences for screwing up on gore weekend and realize that your actions could impact the entire boating community for a long time to come. 

Peace.


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## miker (Jan 26, 2006)

caspermike said:


> blm bull shit
> 
> spread out over weekends bull shit.
> 
> ...


Easy ghost man. You should stay away from Gore that weekend. Because with that temper you may get yourself arrested. But you may already know that.


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## JBL (Jun 7, 2006)

deepsouthpaddler said:


> *Pumphouse / Takeout*
> -After campsites are filled, dispersed camping is OK


I just checked with the BLM and you are NOT allowed to camp at the Pumphouse unless you are in a designated site. Once all the designated sites are full, you can camp along Trough Road but not at, near or around the Pumphouse take-out. If you set up a tent in the parking lot, on a boat ramp, etc., you'll be asked to move your tent or perhaps get ticketed. There are lots and lots of places to camp along the road between Pumphouse and Rancho del Rio.


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## COUNT (Jul 5, 2005)

I will be doing my part by not being there.


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## randomnature (Jun 10, 2007)

How bout we all go tubing on Shoshone INSTEAD!


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## caspermike (Mar 9, 2007)

miker said:


> Easy ghost man. You should stay away from Gore that weekend. Because with that temper you may get yourself arrested. But you may already know that.


thats not the only thing going to get me arrested , littering and, littering and littering, and smoking the reefer, (super troopers) i really don't like litterers. 


no additude just the truth my bretheran anybody up for an unofficial race through the top section of bluegrass if its still flowing that weekend lets upgrade the gore race! JUST FROM TUNNEL TO END OF MANK?


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## COUNT (Jul 5, 2005)

Dude, now that would FUN! Wish I was in town. I'd do it.


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