# Fastest GC non-moto raft descent



## wsmckinney (Jun 21, 2010)

What's the fastest, non-motorized, raft descent in the Grand Canyon? I did 10 days to Diamond in March 2013, but I know there has to be faster. 

Flame if you must.


----------



## openboat (Jul 13, 2004)

In the Belnap GC Guidebook, p. 71, it says that in 1951 Jim and Bob Rigg rowed a Nevills cataract boat through it in 2.5 days.


----------



## richp (Feb 27, 2005)

Hi,

Read "The Emerald Mile" for an account of a sub-37 hour trip in a dory.

Rich phillips


----------



## wsmckinney (Jun 21, 2010)

*RAFT*

Raft amigos.....raft!


----------



## Shitouta (Apr 17, 2008)

I did in 4.13 days at 31,415 cfs in a 27.18' bucket boat back in 82 surviving on key bumps and gummy bears.


----------



## DoStep (Jun 26, 2012)

Try as I may, I just can't seem to beat my own record of 18 days! I just mustn't be trying hard enough...


----------



## zbaird (Oct 11, 2003)

12 days felt like a speed record for sure. Certainly one I hope to never beat.


----------



## wsmckinney (Jun 21, 2010)

Sigh...... I thought I heard someone mention a 7 day trip, but maybe I was high on the ganj. Disregard anything ever said by shitouta, he wouldn't know what cocaine was if it was piled high on stripper titties. 

I'm with Pizzle who said "One mans trip of a lifetime is another mans cross training." My brother and I can only swing 9 days off together this January, we live less than 5 hours from Lee's, so we'll take what we can get. 

2.5 days in a Cataract boat is pretty insane... I guess I should limit my inquiry to post dam and under 50k flow. 

Thanks for looking friends, happy boatin!


----------



## DoStep (Jun 26, 2012)

You may indeed be in contention for the January record if you only take 9 days in a row boat!


----------



## heavyswimmer (Dec 20, 2014)

Curious and off topic but... what is the fastest motorized descent?


----------



## zbaird (Oct 11, 2003)

9 days in January will be tough but doable. Low flows coupled with short daylight hours will make for a serious push. On our 12 day in mid May we launched before 9 everyday and showed up to camp late and cooked in the dark several days. With two of you getting out of camp shouldnt be an issue. Due to hiker and helicopter constraints we ended up with a couple lax days at the bottom after pushing hard through the best of it which wasnt ideal. With 9 days you wont be doing much daylight hiking but you could get through assuming you can row steady most of the day. Diamond or Pearce?


----------



## buckmanriver (Apr 2, 2008)

In a shredder you could easily do 7 days to diamond. only 37 miles per day.


----------



## Flying_Spaghetti_Monster (Jun 3, 2010)

I ask this about how fast could I kayak it, and got ripped apart by the people how act like I would miss seeing all the magically fairies, and unicorns that dwell in the canyon. Personally it made me not even want to run the damn thing. People act like you need to go in there for a month, and have some sort of spiritual experience for it to mean anything. And don't forget hiking. Can't run it with out hiking. The hell with it I will do it when I am 60, and can't run class v anymore.


----------



## buckmanriver (Apr 2, 2008)

Flying_Spaghetti 

I like your logic. However, I think it is a bit weak I would suggest people only participate in commercial trips. This is for my own selfish reasons, perhaps together we can convince people not to visit the place and demand for permits will plummet. If the paddling community actually knew how great it was to go every year in a kayak it would be impossible to get a permit. Better yet, change the rules to allow users a fixed amount of river days and without holding them to the one trip per year standard. That way with a 25 day permit you could do four back to back laps. 

Lets hear it canyon flamers! Would I be better to fly a helicopter down and splash water on my face? Dont get to work up I not going back until I am 80.


----------



## Flying_Spaghetti_Monster (Jun 3, 2010)

I am not saying it sucks. I have never ran it. I am saying the whole idea that you can not go with out doing all the little side adventures is ludicrous. At this point my goal is to run the Grand Canyon of the Stikine before the Grand Canyon of the Colorado.


----------



## Learch (Jul 12, 2010)

Flying_Spaghetti_Monster said:


> I am not saying it sucks. I have never ran it. I am saying the whole idea that you can not go with out doing all the little side adventures is ludicrous. At this point my goal is to run the Grand Canyon of the Stikine before the Grand Canyon of the Colorado.



I have done it once, 20 years ago last May. It changed it me. It was a spiritual experience. I would say anyone giving you advice not to rush your first trip is not to discredit your idea, but to help you realize what it is. People who have done it feel like they know something they didn't before. I was on an 18 day trip, I saw so much but missed so much more. We got a lot of highlights in on our 18 days. I want to see more, to enjoy more. I left there longing to go back.


----------



## BrianK (Feb 3, 2005)

Flying_Spaghetti_Monster said:


> I ask this about how fast could I kayak it, and got ripped apart by the people how act like I would miss seeing all the magically fairies, and unicorns that dwell in the canyon. Personally it made me not even want to run the damn thing. People act like you need to go in there for a month, and have some sort of spiritual experience for it to mean anything. And don't forget hiking. Can't run it with out hiking. The hell with it I will do it when I am 60, and can't run class v anymore.


People with experience shared their opinion with you. You are free to disregard their opinion. Don't get mad at their opinion, and don't get mad at the grand canyon because you disagree with these opinions. It's not the grand canyon's fault.

The hikes/attractions in the grand canyon are amazing, but not mandatory. Do it however you want. Float through in 24 days or 24 hours if it makes you happy. The grand canyon is simply one of the most incredible places you can float through - that's a fact. If you get the opportunity, you should go. In fact everyone should go, it truly exceeds expectations. It's fine to have the trip you want fast, slow, etc. But stating that you aren't going to go because you got negative feedback on your idea on mountainbuzz is ridiculous. Honestly, why would these strangers opinions have any bearing on any river you want to run. 

Also it's not Class V and it's definitely not the Stikine, but I know a lot of Class V boaters who've run the grand, and to a person they all consider it one of the best river experiences they've had. 

Good luck training for the stikine, and I hope you do get on the Grand soon so you'll understand what the fuss is about.


----------



## B4otter (Apr 20, 2009)

Fewer people that run the Grand the better...


----------



## tteton (May 16, 2014)

Shitouta said:


> I did in 4.13 days at 31,415 cfs in a 27.18' bucket boat back in 82 surviving on key bumps and gummy bears.




BAAAHAHAHAHHAHA


----------



## Flying_Spaghetti_Monster (Jun 3, 2010)

BrianK said:


> People with experience shared their opinion with you. You are free to disregard their opinion. Don't get mad at their opinion, and don't get mad at the grand canyon because you disagree with these opinions. It's not the grand canyon's fault.
> 
> The hikes/attractions in the grand canyon are amazing, but not mandatory. Do it however you want. Float through in 24 days or 24 hours if it makes you happy. The grand canyon is simply one of the most incredible places you can float through - that's a fact. If you get the opportunity, you should go. In fact everyone should go, it truly exceeds expectations. It's fine to have the trip you want fast, slow, etc. But stating that you aren't going to go because you got negative feedback on your idea on mountainbuzz is ridiculous. Honestly, why would these strangers opinions have any bearing on any river you want to run.
> 
> ...


My question was years ago trying to find out what the least amount of time I could take off work, and still see the grand canyon. I got destroyed by people that felt I should take a month off to run it. I have no doubt it is a great run, and a beautiful canyon. I am not a spiritual person so I doubt I would have that feeling, but I would however be amazed by the geology. If I ever run it it will be a in the fall or winter because I can't stand the heat  Who knows if I will ever make it to the Stikine. I said that more as a joke than anything else.


----------



## fdon (Jul 23, 2008)

To the OPs ask:


I participated in a two raft 8 day LF to DC in early July a number of years back. Flow was 7k-11k. Off the beach about 10AM and in camp about 6-7PM. Mileage was 29-34 miles per day. We did not scout much.


Did a solo raft 21day trip LF to SC in January, also a few years back. Flow was 13k-17k. That trip I hiked my ass off with multiple layovers and even a three nighter at Racetrack. I tended to kick off the beach at first light and boat until the next camp sometimes covering 30 miles in a day. I do not recall having to be in the boat anywhere near sunset. I recall scouting Granite, Crystal, Upset and Lava looking for the cheat routes. Below DC, Pearce Ferry cause it was really a thumper that year!


7 days LF to DC in January is a tight call. In the boat at dawn every day rain, snow, wind, whatever comes your way. A flip or equipment repair could cost you a day+. One boat is a pretty thin trip. Two boats is just a little less thin. Simple but warm meals, quality winter boating apparel and camp equipment and very little alcohol along with very deliberate lines thru the drops would be my recommendations. Sounds like fun. Go for it!


PS: what are your January dates?


----------



## zbaird (Oct 11, 2003)

If the question is one or two boats I would go 2. I would pod together end to end, bow to bow for everything 3 or less and maybe some others (p. harding comes to mind). You'll have to judge your comfort level. The boat will move super fast with both of you rowing and will stay on line and keep going when one stops for an outfit change , pee or drink. Guy in the back steers and pushes, guy in the front pulls steady. Put buckles on 2 corners of each frame and use a piece of strap. You'll be able to pod and unpod in seconds above and below rapids without having trailing straps . On trips that I have done this we always end up WAY out in front of everyone rowing one boat, sometimes even launching in back. Safety is on the side of 2 boats as well. If you read the water well and don't get eddyfkd to often you can really haul some ass in that configuration. Momentum is a factor of L vs W and that will be on your side with the double rig.


----------



## DoStep (Jun 26, 2012)

So far, all trips 9 days and less mentioned herein have been in the summer. What is there in January for light, perhaps 10 hours? You will need all 10 of them every day to accomplish that time frame in January, and that assumes no delays for unforeseens like weather and flipping, and you can forget hiking. So up at least an hour before dawn daily (not too difficult). Breakfast and rigging in the dark have to be complete in time to launch at first light. Having only 1-2 boats is on your side, but this is a very ambitious undertaking. It'll be 25 mi/day every day (First camp -- Indian Dick!) including take out day, which is doable, but only you can decide if its worth it. Just know that schedule in January is a definite ball-bluster. 

That said there is something to be said for the concept that a ball busting trip is better than no trip.


----------



## fdon (Jul 23, 2008)

DoStep said:


> So far, all trips 9 days and less mentioned herein have been in the summer. What is there in January for light, perhaps 10 hours? You will need all 10 of them every day to accomplish that time frame in January, and that assumes no delays for unforeseens like weather and flipping, and you can forget hiking. So up at least an hour before dawn daily (not too difficult). Breakfast and rigging in the dark have to be complete in time to launch at first light. Having only 1-2 boats is on your side, but this is a very ambitious undertaking. It'll be 25 mi/day every day (First camp -- Indian Dick!) including take out day, which is doable, but only you can decide if its worth it. Just know that schedule in January is a definite ball-bluster.
> 
> That said there is something to be said for the concept that a ball busting trip is better than no trip.


 These are good words! 

I am looking at my trip log from a LF launch on 12-31-09. Time off the beach was 11:21AM and I camped night one at Above Tiger Wash RM 26.5 taking off the water at 3:50 PM. 


I dealt with Ranger Chris who was on temporary duty and he showed up at 8AM as I was rigging. After he chewed my ass for not being there a day early, he checked my gear, gave the talk and returned an hour later with my permit. It is not unusual to get your permit after noon so you might be forced into a short-mile day one. You might want to communicate your tight schedule to the river office to check out the possibility of an early morning launch day ranger talk.

Day two I left ATW at 10:00AM and camped downstream at Kwagunt, RM 56.5, taking out at 4:30PM

1-3-2010. Left Lava Creek Camp RM 65.5 at 8AM. Arrived at Schist Camp RM 96.5 at 3PM.

I had a number of other +30- days on the river with no problems, so I am convinced the 7-9 day LF to DC can be done in January. Again, the seriousness of the issues dealing with winter boating on such a short leash cannot be overstated.


----------



## wsmckinney (Jun 21, 2010)

*Thanks!*

fdon, 
Thanks and Kudos! 

It's looking like there will be 5 of us. I will be leading the charge in my magic RPM MAX, and the Atomic Athlete boys will be in 2-12' oar rafts. Super light, self support kayak stylie.

We Launch January 5th from LF and take out at DC on January 13th. 

Zbaird..... yes. We will be podding. Hope to cross paths with you on the rio someday. 

Do or do not, there is no try.


----------



## fiya79 (Feb 9, 2010)

I've subscribed to the old adage that it is better to go and hammer it out than to never go at all.

Have a great trip. Stay safe. bring back pictures.


----------



## RaftGoat (Jul 30, 2012)

*Emerald*

Great read about the fastest in a Dory. Check it out. Savages!!!


----------



## fdon (Jul 23, 2008)

Mac, you have time for a layover in that schedule


----------



## buckmanriver (Apr 2, 2008)

I am still baffled by the low amount of flaming in this short trip discussion.

I will also add that the rangers can be unpredictable no matter who you get for check out. Whats the earliest anyone has finished ranger talk and checkout on launch day? Even in the winter I have not gotten done with check out before ~10:30am. I also make sure to set all required equipment out night before in a small line so it is easy to inspect.


----------



## jmacn (Nov 20, 2010)

I was able to check out the night before my launch in December a few years ago. Left Lee's in the dark and got to each camp early. Below Buckfarm, below Hance, below Blacktail, below Tuckup, 208, takeout at DC w another private trip. I never used any camps. Fast trips are one more way to see the place differently. I'll do it again someday too, no regrets...


Sent from my iPhone using Mountain Buzz


----------

