# Boat rigging pet peeves?…



## Pine (Aug 15, 2017)

After following Mtn Buzz for a while now, I’m pretty sure there must be other people on here like me that are borderline OCD when it comes to rigging.

My particular pet peeve is unrolled paco pads. I slipped on one once, and nearly busted my rear end. Ever since, I’ve kind of declared war on rigging them unrolled. Everyone thinks I’m nuts, but they don’t go on my boat unrolled, especially if we’re fishing. I’m also a bit fanatical about symmetry.

What other pet peeves do people have? I need some extra examples in order to prove to my SO that I’m not crazy about rigging.

I know a boater that is a pilot who has a weight and balance sheet for his boat.


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## Montet202 (Aug 22, 2020)

I generally don’t care how anyone rigs their boat. But it drives me nuts when they don’t hitch their straps, or use loop straps and have no plan to their rigging. So when they unrig, they have a pile of loose straps in their boat making rerigging an incredibly drawn out process. When they rerig they are reinventing the wheel every damn day.


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## jbLaramie (Feb 1, 2021)

It’s hopeless with kids. They’ve either ditched to ride elsewhere or there’s a bunch of other kids with them on ours. Planning for that shift in several hundred pounds is more about how many rice crispy treats you’ve got on your boat.

Edit: we usually inflate the raft at or near the launch but have the frame pre assembled on the trailer. Like to have almost all needed straps already attached to the frame while at home to simplify rigging at the launch. One time came down to the ramp to rig after parking the truck and found all my pre-placed straps in a nice pile on the ground. Wife and kids had removed all of them to “help”. Lol


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## jamesthomas (Sep 12, 2010)

I’ll cut you a lot of slack rigging the first day or two. After that, not so much. I have a river bud who “reinvents the wheel” every damn day. Painful to watch unless you have a cold/hot beverage in your hands and a chair.


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## jamwin33 (May 20, 2008)

Pine said:


> After following Mtn Buzz for a while now, I’m pretty sure there must be other people on here like me that are borderline OCD when it comes to rigging.
> 
> My particular pet peeve is unrolled paco pads. I slipped on one once, and nearly busted my rear end. Ever since, I’ve kind of declared war on rigging them unrolled. Everyone thinks I’m nuts, but they don’t go on my boat unrolled, especially if we’re fishing. I’m also a bit fanatical about symmetry.
> 
> ...


I rarely post - long time member but just usually watch and listen. I used to get tense watching all sorts of people rig their boats, but decades of boating later, I offer the following:

First - if I ever called my wife my "old lady" I would either be divorced or a eunuch. I'm not her "old man", and we will be together until the end of time. Personal rant here...
Second - How do you bust your rear end ?
Third - rig your boat the way you want to rig your boat. If others in your flotilla are taking more time rigging, sit back, put on your sunscreen, and have a breakfast brew - you don't have to row their boat. Aren't we out there to enjoy our time ? Balance sheet ? WTF ? But if that's what trips their trigger, more power to them
And fourth - if you are that perplexed about the people you're rowing with, you're probably rowing with the wrong people. Only two things can f__k up a river trip - bad weather and bad people. We can control one. And if have the right people, bad weather isn't an issue.


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## wdeutsch (Apr 27, 2020)

I'm pretty borderline OCD on my boat, and have spent WAY too many hours sitting on the frame in the garage trying to get it dialed. BUT, as long as you're ready to shove off at the agreed upon time, your boat is your boat to rig as you please. If you wanna get up an hour earlier and futz all morning long, you do you. I'll sleep in, have the extra cup of tea and have my boat ready to go at the same time. Now, if you make me wait for you because you are going full-on Clampett style and missed our departure time.... That's another beast.


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## Montet202 (Aug 22, 2020)

jamesthomas said:


> I’ll cut you a lot of slack rigging the first day or two. After that, not so much. I have a river bud who “reinvents the wheel” every damn day. Painful to watch unless you have a cold/hot beverage in your hands and a chair.


Hey, I boat with that same guy!!! It’s like Groundhog Day, every day!

Lackluster skills at one thing, or another, is no reason to excommunicate a member of your crew.
The particular fellow I have in mind is one of my closest friends since we were toddlers, as were our fathers. He is an absolute gong show when it comes to rigging. Otherwise he is a ball to have around. Hilarious, easy going and a baller of a cook. He’s the first call when I snag a permit. Does he drive me nuts with his rigging? Yup. Do I enjoy a beer and love every minute of relentlessly taunting him while he swears at NRS straps? Also yup.
I worry about some of you with hard fast rules for jettisoning friends because they don’t meet muster over trivial things.


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## Rick A (Apr 15, 2016)

People who roll Paco pads. Seriously as long as you don't have a yard sale if you flip, I approve of your rigging.


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## caverdan (Aug 27, 2004)

I hate when someone unstraps something on my boat and doesn't put the end of the strap back in the cam. I've lost a lot of straps over the years because of this. 🤯


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## Paco (Aug 3, 2007)

caverdan said:


> I hate when someone unstraps something on my boat and doesn't put the end of the strap back in the cam. I've lost a lot of straps over the years because of this. 🤯


This!


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## mcfarrel (Apr 1, 2006)

Poorly rigged drag bags... it needs to be rigged somewhere close to the passengers for easy access and on a short enough leash that it doesn't end up flipped over my oar in a rapid. Also it needs to be secured closed so we don't lose any beers.


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## mcfarrel (Apr 1, 2006)

caverdan said:


> I hate when someone unstraps something on my boat and doesn't put the end of the strap back in the cam. I've lost a lot of straps over the years because of this. 🤯


THIS!!!! this is actually the most infuriating thing when someone helps me get gear out of my boat.


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## Montet202 (Aug 22, 2020)

caverdan said:


> I hate when someone unstraps something on my boat and doesn't put the end of the strap back in the cam. I've lost a lot of straps over the years because of this. 🤯


This is exactly why every single strap on my boat is either a loop strap, or is hitched.


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## Rick A (Apr 15, 2016)

caverdan said:


> I hate when someone unstraps something on my boat and doesn't put the end of the strap back in the cam. I've lost a lot of straps over the years because of this. 🤯


Girth hitch the strap to your frame or a D-ring and it's no longer an issue.


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## Nanko (Oct 20, 2020)

When people show up to the ramp with a vehicle crammed full of disorganized gear. Then get flustered and spend forever finding everything.

“Has ANYONE seen a 4-foot strap!?!”


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## GOTY2011 (Mar 18, 2018)

Fiddlef#*king with gear is a time-honored tradition. But not at the launch, have some civility please.


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## Grifgav (Jun 20, 2011)

this thread reminded me that I need some new loop straps. Thanks folks!


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## Montet202 (Aug 22, 2020)

GOTY2011 said:


> Fiddlef#*king with gear is a time-honored tradition. But not at the launch, have some civility please.


Man, I’m usually boating with my two kids, who do help a lot, but if my poop isn’t in a pile, it makes trips exhausting. A well organized gear pile makes a trip so much more enjoyable. To each their own, but I can’t understand how guys can be so disheveled.


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## KellyTrimming (Aug 26, 2020)

My pet peeve is other people tightening my straps:
1. Just before I drive over a mountain pass, with low inflation.
2. Early on a cold morning just before the hot sun hits my tubes.
3. While I am strapping on my raft frame, so it gets pulled too far port or starboard and I have to loosen them again to center the frame. This reminds me of people who crank down on the first fkin lug nut after they change a tire. When I rig, I start with all straps loose.

This particularly annoys me when boat inspectors do it, or strangers do it. Keep your hands off other people's boats unless you have permission.

Also, I like my cam buckles in a direction that I can pull to tighten from inside the cockpit.

Also, if I am carrying your gear (kayakers), please don't be the last one to break your camp.

I also don't like it when passengers crush and throw their beer cans on my drop-stitch floor or when they drop cherry pits and other trash. Put it in your pocket or ask me where to put it, please.


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## BenSlaughter (Jun 16, 2017)

I run a pretty tight rig.
Everything has a specific place.
I can see using paco's as seat pads, but can't get behind the idea of sitting on a stack of 3-4 of em. Mine get rolled and strapped in the gear pile, although now that I have cots, they stay home.
Keep yer hands off my rig. There's a 97% chance I'm going to have to undo whatever you tried doing.









Aside from strapping the beer coolers to the trays up front, and unstrapping it from the trailer, that's completely ready to go in the water.


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## BenSlaughter (Jun 16, 2017)

Also, don't ask to borrow straps.
Everyone knows strap borrowing is just strap theft.


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## gnarsify (Oct 5, 2020)

Oohhh! I want to play!

My first pet peeve is when people think they're being 'helpful' when leaving camp and just start piling shit on my boat. Then I have to unload and reload all the gear because the 'helpful' person doesn't know my system.

My second and biggest pet peeve is when I give someone two drybags (a day bag and an overnight bag) and tell them to put everything they need for the day in the small drybag and all your overnight stuff goes in the big bag. Inevitably, someone puts their rain jacket in the overnight bag and it starts raining and I have to stop and spend 10 minutes digging out their overnight bag so they can get their rain jacket. 

The empty cans just thrown onto the floor of the boat drives me crazy, especially when people crush them first.


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## Conundrum (Aug 23, 2004)

Safety hazards. If it’s a non-locking carabiner exposed to where a rope can catch it, that’s a problem. I know carabiners are handy and the more you have hanging all over your shit the more outdoorsy you look. But as the guy who usually carries the z-drag, I will judge you for it.

Not that my ire should matter to you.


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## Idaho_ski_bum (Jun 22, 2018)

Not really rigging, but NO SAND IN THE BOAT! I have a small bucket that lives in my foot well and I'm constantly splashing sand out of the boat.
My peeve is with the dry box. If it's not latched shut, it's not a dry box. If you open it, close it properly. And those two straps that go over the top aren't just for looks. Cinch those babies back up every time. I like my box and all the stuff in it, so let's make sure we hang on to that thing.


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## Riverwild (Jun 19, 2015)

Yeah non-lockers are a problem in my book as are crappy dangling perimeter lines. Cinch your stuff tight people. It also is a personal pet peeve when I see people run their spare oars blade forward. In my experience you're just asking for a broken blade if you go sideways into a wall like in say Powerhouse on the MFS.


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## Cocktail Dave (9 mo ago)

Ok im in
Dont Freking Ask for" Xtra Straps bro" 
Beer cans on the floor is where i throw ur ass in the river !!
but that is just me


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## Montana Cat 65 (Jul 31, 2013)

I love my brother and SIL, and would rather boat with them than anyone else, but dammit, once i get the load dialed in, DO NOT decide to change around what goes in what bag. Especially musical instruments and weighty stuff.

The only way to help is the hand me the bag I ask for when I ask for it. Do not let it get sandy while waiting -- the gear is usually staged somewhere to keep this from happening -- do no helpfully move the gear to the beach right in front of the boat.

To the OP: Man, you're not going to convince your wife you're not OCD/nuts. Just admit it and accept the title.


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## readNrun (Aug 1, 2013)

Ok..my .02. I know a lot of people say let everyone do themselves wrt rigging. That's fine if they are going at it alone but when their lack of proper rigging will impact: a) me b) their unaware passenger (possibly not kin or their friend) c)their rescuer (possibly me as well) or d) the safety of the trip _I draw the line_. To be honest this situation is few and far between and if this happens it's probably more in the camp of "know who you are going with". 

When I used to climb a fair bit, I used to say that getting out with fellow guides is a great way to find people to climb with....and people you *never* want to climb with. Same goes for being on the river. You don't like the way someone rigs...it's only one trip...just hope it's not a 22 day trip with just you and them ;-)


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## Tntslc (4 mo ago)

Guides hogging/ rigging on the boat ramp is my pet peeve


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## Pine (Aug 15, 2017)

mcfarrel said:


> Poorly rigged drag bags... it needs to be rigged somewhere close to the passengers for easy access and on a short enough leash that it doesn't end up flipped over my oar in a rapid. Also it needs to be secured closed so we don't lose any beers.


One time on a Grand Canyon trip, we were beached in a long eddy, getting ready for a side hike. Another crew was beached further down the eddy, they were away on the hike.

I was waste deep in the water next to my boat, when I noticed a long line of full beer cans floating right towards me. I started grabbing them and tossing them in a bucket. I think I got maybe eight or nine beers. Some one did a poor job rigging their drag bag, and it had come open letting the beers escape


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## Randaddy (Jun 8, 2007)

Wait, all of you "rig"? Straps are for the unconfident. I throw it all in, put the fire pan on top, and go for it! Sometimes for big Class Vs, I will use a couple bungee cords, in case the load shifts.


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## Baldy (Oct 23, 2015)

1. Not contributing for shuttles and beer.
2. Getting wicked high while I’m running a shuttle and your fishing gear hasn’t moved an inch during that time.
3. Sitting on your phone/ass at the ramp. Maybe try to help??
4. Asking “how long will we be gone” when pushing off. I’m not the reason you’re going to be late, we’ve done this plenty of times.


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## Cocktail Dave (9 mo ago)

Yea Randaddy i like ur style 
confession I have done this pile it up couple of straps and we r off


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## Montet202 (Aug 22, 2020)

Cocktail Dave said:


> Yea Randaddy i like ur style
> confession I have done this pile it up couple of straps and we r off


A few years ago a guy, in the group behind us, flipped his boat in (I think) Bailey on the Main Salmon. Two dry boxes and cooler were NOT strapped in. Talk about a yard sale.


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## BenSlaughter (Jun 16, 2017)




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## BastrdSonOfElvis (Mar 24, 2005)

For someone who hasn’t rigged a boat before but will be soon, threads like this are gold.
I do wish there was general consensus on some things, tho. Like spare oar rigging directionality. I’ve heard knowledgeable people make reasoned arguments for blades forward and for blades aft.
Is that one of those things that one just needs to try both out and decide what you like?


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## Will Amette (Jan 28, 2017)

Blades forward: some people find it's easier to jam a spare into the oarlocks if the blade is forward; you don't have to spin it.

Handles forward:

Handles on spare oars make a great place to park oar blades on the sticks you're using
Easier for passenger to hop in
You can rig your spare so you can unclip ONE buckle near you and pull the oar free. Yes, you do have to spin it around, but you don't have to move forward to release a second buckle
Some people are concerned about damage to the oar blade if you hit a rock hard.

Try both. Try to release a spare and shove it in your oarlock and see if there's much difference. 

Let me know when you get to 10,000 strokes; I can sell you some really good oar fluid.


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## Conundrum (Aug 23, 2004)

Randaddy said:


> Wait, all of you "rig"? Straps are for the unconfident. I throw it all in, put the fire pan on top, and go for it! Sometimes for big Class Vs, I will use a couple bungee cords, in case the load shifts.


Not everyone is as good looking as you. Some will pass, some won't.


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## PDX Duck (Mar 17, 2015)

To summarize - people suck / raft solo 🤣

My biggest pet peeve is me - bad communicator with high expectations of assistance. Hard for people to help when they aren’t given instruction on what to do; so I just end up grumbling silently to myself while doing all the work.

Rolling pacos feels a lot like putting decorative throw pillows on the bed


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

Don’t touch my stuff without asking
I don’t touch your stuff without asking
Rig your boat however you want, life's too short for me to worry about it. I’ll drink a morning beer and chuckle at you

Pet peeve: sand
Raft: I don’t like sand in my boat.
Dory: I really don’t like sand in my fvcking boat! It's coarse and rough and irritating and it gets everywhere.
Don’t set my gear in the sand by the boat. Don’t put your sandy gear in the boat. Don’t put your sandy feet in my boat. Don’t lay my oars in the sand, it sticks to my rope wraps.

I actually like sand on the beach, just not in my boat.


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## Rick A (Apr 15, 2016)

Will Amette said:


> Handles forward:
> 
> Handles on spare oars make a great place to park oar blades on the sticks you're using
> Easier for passenger to hop in
> ...


It doesn't matter to me at all which way you rig your spare but I will say:

You can "park" or ship the oars your using on the oar blades of your spares. So I see no benefit rigging your oars in either direction as you can rest your oars on your spares either way you choose to rig them.

Easier for a passenger to hop in, I won't disagree with that.

You can rig the spare to be removed by only releasing ONE strap with the blade forward as well. With the blade forward you don't have to turn around and it can be done while still seated.

As far as the hitting a rock and breaking or damaging your spare, this can also occur either way you rig your oar if you hit walls or rocks.

I prefer blades forward but have no problems or concerns with people who choose to do it differently.


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## Big Wave (6 mo ago)

Randaddy said:


> Wait, all of you "rig"? Straps are for the unconfident. I throw it all in, put the fire pan on top, and go for it! Sometimes for big Class Vs, I will use a couple bungee cords, in case the load shifts.


Nice someone else approves of the Gravity Rig. Bueno!


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## Idaho_ski_bum (Jun 22, 2018)

I used to rig blade forward. On a day trip with two passengers up front paddling they kept hitting the blade on paddle strokes. Now I rig handle forward. It seems to snag up the fly line loops less as well.


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## Will Amette (Jan 28, 2017)

Rick A said:


> It doesn't matter to me at all which way you rig your spare but I will say:
> 
> You can "park" or ship the oars your using on the oar blades of your spares. So I see no benefit rigging your oars in either direction as you can rest your oars on your spares either way you choose to rig them.
> 
> ...


I think it can be done, but I don't think it's as secure. 

I don't have to turn around to get my spare off the boat. I reach down next to me and release the strap that is on the blade end and just slide it out from the front strap. Just make sure that the strap on the handle end is between the oar stop and the handle or you'll have to fight the oar stop. I can see rigging the blade forward if you just strap to the blade rather than the shaft; it would still slide out. I think though that the oar could slide on its own and release the blade. The way I see most people rig blade forward they have to get out of their seat to release the strap on the blade in. The advantage of course is you can just jam it right into the oarlock without spinning the shaft around. I haven't found it hard to spin the shaft, although I would be happy if I never have to deploy a spare oar again.

Agree you can park your oars either way; I think they fit better on the handles than blades.

Either way - if you leave your oars strapped to your frame to trailer the boat, be sure the straps are INSIDE the oar stops. I had an oar bounce loose when I neglected this. Fortunately it was at very low speed and we saw it right away.


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## Shaft (Aug 7, 2017)

MT4Runner said:


> Pet peeve: sand
> Raft: I don’t like sand in my boat.
> Dory: I really don’t like sand in my fvcking boat! It's coarse and rough and irritating and it gets everywhere.
> Don’t set my gear in the sand by the boat. Don’t put your sandy gear in the boat. Don’t put your sandy feet in my boat. Don’t lay my oars in the sand, it sticks to my rope wraps.
> ...













Sand doesn't really bother me like it does Anakin and MT4Runner, I would hate it more if I had a bucket boat or a dory. Only auto-locking carabiners allowed on my boat these days

Pet peeves:

Pulling straps against rubber quickly and/or dry
Beer cans on floor or shoved between the paco and cooler, crossbar junk drawer type bags are there for a reason
PFD not clipped into boat/line when not in use


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## caverdan (Aug 27, 2004)

Personality........I use only non locking carabiners on my boat............so that nobody wants to ride with me. 🐴


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## yesimapirate (Oct 18, 2010)

Haven't seen any mention of cooler(s). Not necessarily just rigging problems, but just my "ughs".

1. Passengers including wife trying to tell me which direction to have cooler face. I'm the captain! I decide! But probably listened to friggin wife.
2. Passengers including wife expecting me to fill my already full cooler with their junk. (I've gotten better about proactively leaving space for this reason).
3. Delicate balance between this and #2, but passengers bringing their own cooler and then want me to find space for it. 
4. Multiday group members yelling out minutes before shoving off - "does anyone have space in their cooler for this big ticket item?" and of course looking my way because I'm the nice guy with big boat and usually big cooler. Then schlepping that item 5 days only to have them never utilize.
5. Multiday passengers digging thru cooler looking for their 1 item meanwhile losing precious coldness (and unorganizing my perfect organization) while holding the lid open for what feels like HOURS. I try not to get OCD about this, but I like cold beers. Not room temp chocolate milk.


Also, I roll paco pads. My decking is padded with faux SeaDeck. My experience is that wet paco butt has another name - swamp ass.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

❤


Shaft said:


> View attachment 83115
> 
> Sand doesn't really bother me like it does Anakin and MT4Runner, I would hate it more if I had a bucket boat or a dory.


So glad someone caught the reference!! 🍻

*Not like here.* *Here everything is soft and smooth.*


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

yesimapirate said:


> Haven't seen any mention of cooler(s). Not necessarily just rigging problems, but just my "ughs".


Best solution for you may be 2 midsize coolers. One for YOU and you alone to manage. A second for your wife and deadbeat no-cooler managing friends.

It's not a peeve of mine, I just keep silent about my cooler. But people get excited when I pull out hard cold clear ice on the 2nd to last day for cocktails.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

Will Amette said:


> I think it can be done, but I don't think it's as secure.
> 
> I don't have to turn around to get my spare off the boat. I reach down next to me and release the strap that is on the blade end and just slide it out from the front strap. Just make sure that the strap on the handle end is between the oar stop and the handle or you'll have to fight the oar stop. I can see rigging the blade forward if you just strap to the blade rather than the shaft; it would still slide out. I think though that the oar could slide on its own and release the blade. The way I see most people rig blade forward they have to get out of their seat to release the strap on the blade in. The advantage of course is you can just jam it right into the oarlock without spinning the shaft around. I haven't found it hard to spin the shaft, although I would be happy if I never have to deploy a spare oar again.
> 
> ...


Great description. Clearly you've tried it. And it's hard to describe and deserves more than internet discussion.

I think EVERYONE needs to practice deploying a spare oar. It's not difficult, nor is it effortless. It deserves practice and not just in the driveway. Do it on your favorite roadside Class II before you need to do it on a wilderness multiday Class IV in the middle of a rapid.


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## Kirby (Aug 14, 2013)

Like others have said. Taking too long on day 2 or 5 to rig their boat. Not really rigging but folks who bring too much shit. I'm talking the 3 extra dry bags that never get opened. Dry box full of shit that never gets used and then they say something like "man my boat is slow". And I'll go out on a limb and say kayaks. "It's a flat water day mind if I throw my kayak up and ride with you?" Let me guess you don't have any straps...For the record I don't mind carrying their bags but like someone said, don't be the last one to bring it down to the boat.


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## yesimapirate (Oct 18, 2010)

MT4Runner said:


> Best solution for you may be 2 midsize coolers. One for YOU and you alone to manage. A second for your wife and deadbeat no-cooler managing friends.


For single day trips - I have started implementing soft sided coolers for this very reason. And don't even bother with big cooler.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

haha, this sounds too familiar, I started hiding a second cooler of my own when car camping with my wife.
I have two soft side coolers in my dory or drift boat for day/overnight runs. One for me, one for guests. Plus they fit better in the side and bow hatches anyway.

Maybe need small waterproof business cards to hand out.
_"I'm sorry that you're bad at thermodynamics, but you're not:_

_Putting your warm food in my food cooler_
_Getting into my cooler in the heat of day_
_Going to make me feel guilty for your poor cooler management._
_I'm glad we had this conversation, have a great day!"_
OK maybe too harsh..but funny!

Alternate idea: fill any remaining space in your main cooler with block ice. You have no room, but you can be generous with ice to replenish others' food coolers, or share ice for cocktails, or for others' beer coolers.


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## gnarsify (Oct 5, 2020)

yesimapirate said:


> For single day trips - I have started implementing soft sided coolers for this very reason. And don't even bother with big cooler.


How much shit are you bringing in your cooler on a day trip that you have it neatly organized and people have to dig for beers? On day trips my cooler has a case of beer, some sandwiches, ice, and maybe another snack if my wife insists on it. Multiday, I bring a small cooler to hold the day's beers and a little ice, load it up in the morning then no one touches the big cooler until it's time to cook.


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## yesimapirate (Oct 18, 2010)

Single day trips - not so much concerned about the being super neat. This summer I did one soft cooler my fam, and another for guests. That way the wife can pack her bit, and the other mom's get to have their say. 

Multi-day - I jump in and keep my shit organized. Also do the soft side as day cooler.


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## BastrdSonOfElvis (Mar 24, 2005)

Can I ask you guys what is likely a stupid question since we're talking a bit about spare oar management?

In a scenario when you're in a rapid -- let's say one of some consequence -- and you break an oar blade and need to reach for your spare in a hurry...what do you do with the broken oar? For better or worse (it seems to be a topic of some debate) I'm inclined to use tethers. BUT I can't imagine it's a good idea to purposefully abandon an oar that is tethered to the boat in a rapid. Although, neither can I imagine it's a great idea to toss your expensive oar shaft to the gods. And it's probably not very smart to waste time hauling it into the boat especially if you have passengers that can get hurt on the jagged pieces.

So...what do you do?


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## zbaird (Oct 11, 2003)

The situation will dictate the response. You'll figure it out at that time. Learning where not to put your oars is just as important as where to put them. Ive only had to truly combat change oars a couple times ever. Once the piece that was still attached to the tether got to hang there for a minute and recovered later the other time I wasnt running tethers and chased down the oar below the rapid. More often is an oar pops because you put it somewhere you shouldn't, you get it out of the water on its tether, jam it back in the lock and go on like nothing happened (of course deny it if someone saw you). I run tethers in whitewater, quick release ones that can go bye bye under tension if they need to. I use a loopy buckle on the frame and a 4' strap on the oar with it opened enough that it wont fit my blade through; keeps it from binding on there oar but will tighten when it goes under tension. I rig handles forward so I can undo the cam next to me and pull the oar backward sliding the handle out of the strap.


Oh and rigging pet peeves............


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## GOTY2011 (Mar 18, 2018)

No doubt, it’s a dealbreaker for many of my less than organized family and friends. I am the king of “Hey, what’s in that Palmer?” after we’re on the water at camp. 










Bonus points if you know why it’s called a Palmer. 



Montet202 said:


> Man, I’m usually boating with my two kids, who do help a lot, but if my poop isn’t in a pile, it makes trips exhausting. A well organized gear pile makes a trip so much more enjoyable. To each their own, but I can’t understand how guys can be so disheveled.


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## FatmanZ (Sep 15, 2004)

Unsecured gear strewn out along the beach / camp area shortly after rolling into camp. I've been on too many trips where a big wind storm rolls up unexpectedly and it's way too easy to lose personal and group gear if it's not secured. 

Side note: In my youth when I was a dirt bag poor kayaker, my friends and I used to "measure our wealth" or lack thereof by the # of straps someone had. To see some rafter roll-up to the put-in with a bag of straps meant you had to look twice to make sure they weren't a leprechaun with a pot of gold. These days, one of the best pieces of gear for rigging is a spider (cargo) harness...picked one up a few years ago for stiches and stuff and now I give them as post river trip gifts when I am invited on trips. I have also gifted oar tethers, but that's a different story.


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## Utah78 (Apr 28, 2018)

Regarding rigging, to me it surprises me to see boats with biminis run big rapids without taking down the bimini. I saw 2 separate boats this summer run class IV rapids with their bimini all setup. I don't own a bimini myself, but I always stow my sun umbrella before big water or anything dangerous in case of a flip. A bimini seems like it would be very scary in a flip situation.


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## cuzin (Oct 4, 2007)

More of a derigging pet peeve - when someone hits the beach and runs off with personal gear to snag the best campsite, while everyone else unloads group gear, sets up the kitchen, sets up the groover, etc. I like the “fire line” approach, where everyone gets all the boats unloaded together, helps set up the kitchen and groover so that nights cook crew can set up their tent and get changed.


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## DidNotWinLottery (Mar 6, 2018)

Waiting on OCD boat Captains for 3hrs to get rigged and missing 2 hikes that day. If you are slow and OCD set an alarm clock!


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## sarahkonamojo (May 20, 2004)

Pet peeve: The non-rafter boaters who show up with a cooler asking which raft will be carrying their cooler. 
And paco pads. Not a fan of them, rolled or flat.


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## DidNotWinLottery (Mar 6, 2018)

Good One. We typically seem to have 10% of what a lot of boats carry. Last trip we had a couple of giant bags with SUPs dumped on us to carry. Things were brutal to rig each day, and went nearly un-used...



sarahkonamojo said:


> Pet peeve: The non-rafter boaters who show up with a cooler asking which raft will be carrying their cooler.
> And paco pads. Not a fan of them, rolled or flat.


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## hysideguy67 (Jul 15, 2021)

DidNotWinLottery said:


> Good One. We typically seem to have 10% of what a lot of boats carry. Last trip we had a couple of giant bags with SUPs dumped on us to carry. Things were brutal to rig each day, and went nearly un-used...


Peeve... IKs being used once or twice on a multi-day with promises of "I wanna paddle the whole time" and then dishing them off to group boats


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## zbaird (Oct 11, 2003)

The IK thing is a real annoyance. I will say tho, they can be worth their weight in gold in an emergency. Getting a line to a wrapped boat, getting a swimmer across, etc. They can be carried back upstream, inflated and used accordingly. Hard to do with a raft. We have taken a ducky on the last 2 grand trips and never inflated it once. I though we were going to need it for a boat that had a botched crystal run but it worked out.


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## Montet202 (Aug 22, 2020)

zbaird said:


> The IK thing is a real annoyance. I will say tho, they can be worth their weight in gold in an emergency. Getting a line to a wrapped boat, getting a swimmer across, etc. They can be carried back upstream, inflated and used accordingly. Hard to do with a raft. We have taken a ducky on the last 2 grand trips and never inflated it once. I though we were going to need it for a boat that had a botched crystal run but it worked out.


Planning a March GC trip, and several in the group want to bring SUPs and duckies. I’m quite certain they will hardly get used and just be a rigging hassle for 25 days. Hoping to limit it to one of each.


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## DidNotWinLottery (Mar 6, 2018)

Good point on emergency use. Almost did that this summer for a badly stuck boat. On the Grand it is a BIG question. There are few IK or SUP friendly rapids. I did not find it worth while on our trip for one person to use just a couple of times. So much gear to haul, its just another burden for 3 weeks.


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## zbaird (Oct 11, 2003)

In march they will likely never get used. Make it clear to boatmen that are bringing them that it is their problem. If its passengers, tell them its their boat to paddle if nobody wants to carry it. Then reference the water temp, the air temp and that march is windy. Should shut it down for the most part. Not a bad idea to have one. Really suck the air out of the thing and roll it up tight as you can. Make sure the valves are closed and capped. if somebody can bury it in their pile, all the better. Good chance it wont come out and if it does it'll be below lava. There are some gung ho IK'ers out there but for the most part if its a "I think it'll be fun" thing, they wont get used, to much other shit to do.


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## jbLaramie (Feb 1, 2021)

Maybe a little off the intended line here, but when there’s a couple and one of them expects the other to do all the crappy menial tasks while the other lounges around or only pitches in for stuff they consider important. Workload is never a totally an equal thing, but it’s pretty evident over time when couples aren’t working as a team. The slacker in the couple is also often a slacker on the trip. My wife gets pissed when she sees the wife in a couple getting treated like this.


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## Pine (Aug 15, 2017)

zbaird said:


> The IK thing is a real annoyance. I will say tho, they can be worth their weight in gold in an emergency. Getting a line to a wrapped boat, getting a swimmer across, etc. They can be carried back upstream, inflated and used accordingly. Hard to do with a raft. We have taken a ducky on the last 2 grand trips and never inflated it once. I though we were going to need it for a boat that had a botched crystal run but it worked out.


I’m at the point where we do


hysideguy67 said:


> Peeve... IKs being used once or twice on a multi-day with promises of "I wanna paddle the whole time" and then dishing them off to group boats


Stand up paddle boards are even worse.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

I think this is a great application for a packraft


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## zbaird (Oct 11, 2003)

It is, but has it limitations compared to a ducky. Packrafts arent really going be good if you need to get people off of a boat or ferried across. Hell of a lot easier to pack and haul around tho.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

Stupid maybe good idea:

A lot of these peeves are due to passengers and rookie boaters and whomever has invited them on the trip (or into the sport) hasn't filled them in. We should add a page to the popular river trip planner on Google sheets. Tell people before the trip what to expect should the TL or the person who invited them neglect to.

*“You have been invited on a multiday river trip. Here’s what to expect:*

Be honest about your own abilities and expectations.

If you have never been on a multiday whitewater trip before, both your trip leader and boat captain need to know. They can take the time to educate and inform you about what you haven’t learned before.
If it’s difficult water they may invite you for an easier trip or if there are too many new folks and not enough experienced boaters they may want to bring you another time when the ratio is better. It’s not personal, it’s a safety decision
If you are terrified of white water go on a whitewater day trip first. A multiday trip isn’t the place to see if you can overcome your phobias.
If you don’t like camping, maybe multiday trips aren’t the place to try it. Start with riverside car camping or a local overnight to see if maybe you could handle sleeping on the ground for more nights.
If you’re a passenger on someone else’s raft. They have invested thousands of dollars and countless hours building this rig.

Be respectful.
Don’t get in the boat with sandy feet. Don’t put sandy gear in the boat. Sand causes abrasion to boat fabric and straps. And a clean boat is a happy boat!
Don’t remove straps. They can easily get lost or sink.
Don’t leave dryboxes or coolers open, they might be forgotten and could result in a “yard sale” if a flip occurs.
Don’t rummage in the cooler during the heat of the day. There’s only one pack of ice and it needs to last all week
If you bring something that needs to go in a cooler, it MUST be pre-chilled before it goes in. Communicate before leaving for the trip so you know whose cooler it will fit in and they know how much space it requires and what night it’s needed (later meals pack lower/first)
Your boat Captain should “rig to flip” so that gear isn’t lost and so that a person can’t get trapped in a loose strap should a flip occur. Respect their system and don’t mess with it. The gear or life you save might be your own!
If you’re riding in someone’s boat other than the person who invited you, know that you’re a guest of both. Be flexible.
Don’t get into others boats unless invited. Know that other boat captains likely have their own expectations.
Personal boats

If you bring a SUP, IK or hardshell kayak, expect to paddle it all trip. A rafter doesn’t want to allocate space mid-trip because you got bored in flat water or scared in whitewater. Don’t bring it because it “might be fun” If you’re not going to use it, leave it at home.
Personal gear

This is a river trip, not a car camping trip. You can pack more than a backpacking trip but less than in your car. Follow recommended clothes/gear lists. They are a GREAT idea of both minimum _and_ maximum gear you should bring. You don’t need 3 pairs of jeans or your grandmother’s cast iron set. Only bring cookware if coordinated with whomever brings the kitchen
Have your personal gear ready to load BEFORE the Captain needs to rig it. If you take a long time to get ready in the morning or to pack this means you might need to get up with the early risers. If you like to sleep in, you need to be able to pack quickly. You can’t both sleep in and pack slowly.
Separate your camp/overnight gear from your day bag. Overnight gear includes dry camp clothes, sleeping system, pad, tent, etc. and it might/could/will get buried in the gear stack until the next camp. Your day bag should have your rain coat, hat, camera, lip balm, snacks, and anything else you need all day. Don’t ask your captain to tear into the packed gear because you packed your chewing gum in your camp bag. On trips with a store stop, put cash in your day bag (even if for that day) for ice cream or beer.
A river trip is an experience in group dynamics.

This is not a guided trip. Everyone needs to pitch in. Like my Dad once told me years ago on a hunting trip, “pitch in and you’ll always get invited back.”
Regardless of the dynamics in your own home: you, your spouse, and your kids all need to pitch in. This is a working vacation for everyone on the trip. If you’re slacking, trust me, everyone notices. Even if you’ve had a hard week/month/year it doesn’t mean someone else on the trip needs to pick up your slack. Pitch in, visit, enjoy the experience.
Help wash dishes even if it’s not your turn on kitchen crew
Wake up early a couple mornings to help get coffee going and watch the sunrise!
You’re living and working and playing closely with a bunch of other people for the duration of the trip. Little things can become annoying. Try not to be annoying. And try to overlook others’ quirks.
Share. Bring extra beer, soda, snacks, cocktails, candy or weed to share. There is joy in sharing openly with your community.
If you’re the last to use the groover, help pack it and the hand wash system.
Don’t be the last person off the beach. Have your personal gear packed and loaded. Have your wetsuit/drysuit/PFD on as soon as everyone else. Help other boaters to slide their heavily loaded boats into the water
At the take-out, help haul gear up to cars and get clear of the ramp so that other groups can derig


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## Tntslc (4 mo ago)

Oh how I dislike hauling a guitar. Awkward size/shape and fragile to boot. Maybe better with a burlier case, but I still dislike it. Even worse if the owner sucks and continues to “play” it every night.


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## Montet202 (Aug 22, 2020)

MT4Runner said:


> Stupid maybe good idea:
> 
> a lot of these peeves are due to passengers and rookie boaters. We should add a page to the popular river trip planner on Google sheets. Tell people before the tripwhat to expect should the TL or the person who invited them neglect to.
> 
> ...


Goes hand in hand with the group dynamics discussion a while back on another thread. Managing expectations is best done through good communication. If an experienced boater is peeved at an inexperienced boater…who is really to blame?


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## BastrdSonOfElvis (Mar 24, 2005)

Tntslc said:


> Oh how I dislike hauling a guitar. Awkward size/shape and fragile to boot. Maybe better with a burlier case, but I still dislike it. Even worse if the owner sucks and continues to “play” it every night.


At camp the next night:
“No, it’s not in my boat. Are you sure you didn’t put it in somebody else’s boat? Ah shoot, must still be back on the beach!”


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## Montet202 (Aug 22, 2020)

Tntslc said:


> Oh how I dislike hauling a guitar. Awkward size/shape and fragile to boot. Maybe better with a burlier case, but I still dislike it. Even worse if the owner sucks and continues to “play” it every night.


But if the guy can really play…I’m happy to haul the thing.


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## BastrdSonOfElvis (Mar 24, 2005)

Montet202 said:


> But if the guy can really play…I’m happy to haul the thing.


Haha, perhaps a pre-trip audition is in order.


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## JHUrbina (Aug 19, 2021)

Pine said:


> After following Mtn Buzz for a while now, I’m pretty sure there must be other people on here like me that are borderline OCD when it comes to rigging.
> 
> My particular pet peeve is unrolled paco pads. I slipped on one once, and nearly busted my rear end. Ever since, I’ve kind of declared war on rigging them unrolled. Everyone thinks I’m nuts, but they don’t go on my boat unrolled, especially if we’re fishing. I’m also a bit fanatical about symmetry.
> 
> ...


My only pet peeve is that folks seem to want to tighten up their boats when it is group work time, and somehow in a rented/outfitted situation seem to bogart things. Rig as ye please, just rig to flip please.


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## Quiggle (Nov 18, 2012)

Definitely beer cans/trash all over the boat. I used to care about sand but I have a kid and run mainly desert rivers, it’s everywhere anyways so I just embraced it. If it’s your boat rig it however you want. If your borrowing one of my boats I might have some expectations.
A lot of comments on the buzz lately about “don’t ask me to carry any of your gear” “my cam straps are only for my boat” kinda a bummer. It’s all about getting down the river as a team and enjoying it. Go boat by yourself if you can’t spare a 6$ cam strap to some one important to your trip in some form. I lend my straps out all the time and 95% of them come back. Straps and paddles are overhead costs if you raft alot.


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## merryruth (Aug 28, 2016)

Lot's of gripes here about passengers. I think these issues need to be dealt with before the trip, starting with the TL. I took five newbies on a trip last year, asking friends I boat with regularly to help. I dialed everything in for them on the front end -- we're talking several conversations about gear packing and etiquette on the boat and in camp. And I made sure they knew that every boatman has their own expectations/rules, and they should openly ask at the beginning of the trip what they need to do/not do. If you can't have these conversations in the first place, why are they on the trip? We had a great time. 

When I've had passengers on other people's trips, I've been upfront with them from the beginning about expectations. Number one is that they are self-aware and following instructions. And that they keep their hands off the oars unless I invite them to learn how to row in relatively flat water. Number two is to keep the bow line securely fastened. 

My biggest pet peeve, for everyone? Loose ropes really bug me, in the raft and in camp. It doesn't take much effort to neatly tuck your excess rope out of the way so people don't trip on it. Next biggest is an unclean kitchen. 

All this said, I have a lot of pet peeves but try to remember life is short. A zen attitude goes a long way!


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## Will Amette (Jan 28, 2017)

Quiggle said:


> Definitely beer cans/trash all over the boat. I used to care about sand but I have a kid and run mainly desert rivers, it’s everywhere anyways so I just embraced it. If it’s your boat rig it however you want. If your borrowing one of my boats I might have some expectations.
> A lot of comments on the buzz lately about “don’t ask me to carry any of your gear” “my cam straps are only for my boat” kinda a bummer. It’s all about getting down the river as a team and enjoying it. Go boat by yourself if you can’t spare a 6$ cam strap to some one important to your trip in some form. I lend my straps out all the time and 95% of them come back. Straps and paddles are overhead costs if you raft alot.


You would appreciate something a good friend said on a Grand trip that I'll never forget. He said, "I can carry that." His cat was already pretty well loaded. Then again, he's just a super duper guy all around.


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## DarOv (3 mo ago)

merryruth said:


> Lot's of gripes here about passengers. I think these issues need to be dealt with before the trip, starting with the TL. I took five newbies on a trip last year, asking friends I boat with regularly to help. I dialed everything in for them on the front end -- we're talking several conversations about gear packing and etiquette on the boat and in camp. And I made sure they knew that every boatman has their own expectations/rules, and they should openly ask at the beginning of the trip what they need to do/not do. If you can't have these conversations in the first place, why are they on the trip? We had a great time.
> 
> When I've had passengers on other people's trips, I've been upfront with them from the beginning about expectations. Number one is that they are self-aware and following instructions. And that they keep their hands off the oars unless I invite them to learn how to row in relatively flat water. Number two is to keep the bow line securely fastened.
> 
> ...


Exactly! It's good to be prepared for all the important things in advance. And less important things can be discussed on the way.


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## JHUrbina (Aug 19, 2021)

Montana Cat 65 said:


> To the OP: Man, you're not going to convince your wife you're not OCD/nuts. Just admit it and accept the title.


OCPD is obsessive compulsive personality disorder. My understanding is that this person knows they are obsessed and feels others should be too. Admit it, revel in it, and reflect on your civil liberties in your little floating bastion of paradise. It is a good thing


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## gnarsify (Oct 5, 2020)

My newest pet peeve is all these type-A personalities with long ass rule lists for their boats and being patronizing to newbies.

Oh, and fiberglass slivers from old composite oars...


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

Feel free to rewrite it to be friendlier!


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## gnarsify (Oct 5, 2020)

MT4Runner said:


> Feel free to rewrite it to be friendlier!


If it's your style to explain every little thing to a river newb, that's fine but seems a little patronizing and taking things a little too serious. 

Personally I'm fine with giving a first timer a safety chat (rule #1 stay in the boat, rule #2 stay in the boat, rule #3 have fun), tell them to relax and enjoy themselves and if I need help with anything I'll ask. Inevitably, they pick things up pretty quick and can start pulling some of their weight in the first few days (this is when you can start chastising them about straps and sand if that's your MO).

Related anecdote: My city slicker cousin-in-law came to visit and really wanted to raft. We took them on a day float and they immediately asked if we could do an overnight. My backyard river has some great 2-3 day stretches, so sure, no problem. While planning the overnight, it comes out that this person has never slept on the ground or outside. We say no problem, we'll make you comfortable and ensure you have everything you need. In the back of my head I'm questioning if this is a good idea or not, but my wife basically says she'll do all the kitchen/cooking/dishes if I can help cousin-in-law set up her camp (no problem, wife and I sleep under the stars so our camp is easy to put together). When we get to camp I have to set-up her tent, inflate her sleeping pad, et cetera, et cetera. She tries to help, but has no idea where to start so I have her do things like put tent poles together, help prep dinner, you know, the most easy, basic things. Things go great and she wants to try a 2 nighter. Cool, one night was great, two shouldn't be a problem. Same as the one nighter, things go smooth but I have to put in some extra work. We wake up on the second morning to a pack of coyotes chasing a black bear and two cubs across the river from us, something our east coast city slicker had never seen, much less imagined seeing. They go back home telling us how the river trips were perhaps one of the best experiences of their life. Fast forward to this last summer, and cousin-in-law comes to visit again. We do a two night float, and their attitude and competency was amazingly improved, they set up their own camp, kept themselves entertained, and contributed to camp chores. No long lists of rules, no mock boat rigging, no coaching, no hand holding, just some extra work on my wife and I's part and some extra patience to teach them the basics. They now are planning annual river trips with us. Point being, you don't have to have a stick up your ass about straps, boat trash, 'boatman rules', and what not to teach someone the craft of river trips. If you like spreadsheets and rule lists, that's great! If I'm on your trip I won't stop you, but you might catch me rolling my eyes a lot.


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## Montet202 (Aug 22, 2020)

I grew up on the river, in drift boats. Though perfectly at home on the water, the first multi day trip I did was an eye opener. I look back, now, and very much wish someone would have given me the information MT4Runner posted. Passing that information along isn’t t patronizing, unless you deliver it that way.
One of my closest friends has never done a multi day trip, but will be my passenger on a 25 day grand trip in March. He’s an incredibly capable guy and will have no trouble, but I’m also doing everything I can to ensure he is prepared and has a passable idea of what to expect, and of what will be expected. I can’t imagine any one would be put off by learning something new. Unless, of course, you’re an ass about it.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

gnarsify said:


> If it's your style to explain every little thing to a river newb, that's fine but seems a little patronizing and taking things a little too serious.
> 
> Personally I'm fine with giving a first timer a safety chat (rule #1 stay in the boat, rule #2 stay in the boat, rule #3 have fun), tell them to relax and enjoy themselves and if I need help with anything I'll ask. Inevitably, they pick things up pretty quick and can start pulling some of their weight in the first few days (this is when you can start chastising them about straps and sand if that's your MO).
> 
> Related anecdote: My city slicker cousin-in-law came to visit and really wanted to raft. We took them on a day float and they immediately asked if we could do an overnight. My backyard river has some great 2-3 day stretches, so sure, no problem. While planning the overnight, it comes out that this person has never slept on the ground or outside. We say no problem, we'll make you comfortable and ensure you have everything you need. In the back of my head I'm questioning if this is a good idea or not, but my wife basically says she'll do all the kitchen/cooking/dishes if I can help cousin-in-law set up her camp (no problem, wife and I sleep under the stars so our camp is easy to put together). When we get to camp I have to set-up her tent, inflate her sleeping pad, et cetera, et cetera. She tries to help, but has no idea where to start so I have her do things like put tent poles together, help prep dinner, you know, the most easy, basic things. Things go great and she wants to try a 2 nighter. Cool, one night was great, two shouldn't be a problem. Same as the one nighter, things go smooth but I have to put in some extra work. We wake up on the second morning to a pack of coyotes chasing a black bear and two cubs across the river from us, something our east coast city slicker had never seen, much less imagined seeing. They go back home telling us how the river trips were perhaps one of the best experiences of their life. Fast forward to this last summer, and cousin-in-law comes to visit again. We do a two night float, and their attitude and competency was amazingly improved, they set up their own camp, kept themselves entertained, and contributed to camp chores. No long lists of rules, no mock boat rigging, no coaching, no hand holding, just some extra work on my wife and I's part and some extra patience to teach them the basics. They now are planning annual river trips with us. Point being, you don't have to have a stick up your ass about straps, boat trash, 'boatman rules', and what not to teach someone the craft of river trips. If you like spreadsheets and rule lists, that's great! If I'm on your trip I won't stop you, but you might catch me rolling my eyes a lot.


Actually, I do love spreadsheets, but I don’t love rule lists.
i wrote it hoping to be helpful to others. It’s unlikely I will ever invite somebody who would need that list. I tend to keep my invites fairly small and don’t invite people who will make my life hell.


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## Conundrum (Aug 23, 2004)

New people need direction on four things and it's dependent on the new person. How to survive, how to be comfortable, how to have fun and a very important phrase they need to learn..."Hey, how can I help?". Now if bringing sand into a boat is worth an ass beating to you, how to survive is an important conversation up front.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

If you’re implying that it’s acceptable to give clueless people an ass beating, at first glance that seems a bit harsh, but think I can support you on that in some circumstances. 😂


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## Big Wave (6 mo ago)

Sat this one out for a while. I know I‘m anal retentive but over the years I tried to be anal retentive in a good way. After reading a lot of these posts I think I’ve succeeded.


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## BenSlaughter (Jun 16, 2017)




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## Montana Cat 65 (Jul 31, 2013)

"What other pet peeves do people have? I need some extra examples in order to prove to my SO that I’m not crazy about rigging. "

This is from the post that started this particular donnybrook. He says he wants to prove to his SO that he's not crazy about rigging, when it seems clear that he, likea lot of us is crazy about rigging, and that's perfectly normal.


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## gnarsify (Oct 5, 2020)

MT4Runner said:


> Actually, I do love spreadsheets, but I don’t love rule lists.
> i wrote it hoping to be helpful to others. It’s unlikely I will ever invite somebody who would need that list. I tend to keep my invites fairly small and don’t invite people who will make my life hell.


Just busting your balls, it was actually a good write up and I see it being useful in specific situations and I'm sure it will help someone new to river running


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## Ripper (Aug 29, 2012)

*A few rigging items that get on my nerves are as follows:*

mismatched straps especially if I can see them from the captains bay
long loose tails on straps
folks tying knots in my straps or bowline that are a PITA to undo after a load is put on them
people deciding they really did need that last call on the groover once I've rigged it into the bottom of the gear pile (I'm not a dick and will pull it back out, but I hate being the last one off the beach)
groups spread out in all directions at the get in or take out with no sense of urgency (the take out ramp is the biggest bitch when I'm just trying to load my trailer and get up to the parking lot to de-rig)... sort your shit out after your week plus trip off the ramp!
I always want my throw bag, and pin kit easily accessible (raft or kayaking)

*Passenger Items that get on my nerves:*

Don't keep asking me to grab a beer for you when I'm on the sticks, the day cooler or large cooler faces the passengers if I'm not alone for a reason
Folks wanting me to keep their shit in my day bag, when I loaned them one / or they have their own. I lost my cans of Copenhagen as result of this at the start of a Main Salmon trip once... I had to come terms with the fact it was my bag they were in, and I didn't double check they re-sealed it... I didn't like not having my own cope for the rest of the trip, or realizing I could have prevented it as well...
folks that complain about "cowboy cool" beverages... I like my beer cold as shit when I'm at the house, but damnit we are in the middle of god's country getting loaded... enjoy it!
Sand sucks, but I hate mud... help me spray gun that shit down! Sand and mud happens, but damn it we aren't pigs wallowing in shit!

*Items that go a LOOONNNNGGG ways in me inviting you back (I thought you were worth the effort / enjoyment if you made the trip to begin with):*

Sharing is caring, I'll pass a bottle or a hoot I brought, and appreciate the same in return!
If you can rat hole badass snacks and candy till later in the trip... see above about sharing (my munchie rages in the evenings are similar to that of a racoon... nothing is safe despite how long I tell myself I am going to "save" said items for later)
Good jokes, and a positive outlook even when the weather or situation turns shitty. Embrace the suck sometimes... it's part of it!
Not sleeping on me while I drive back through the night after getting off the river late
If you can come with new meal ideas, and help execute them with "Hell's Kitchen" type precision... again, I get the munchies and like to eat good!
You make a sincere effort to enjoy yourself and offer help when not asked

I really enjoy getting others introduced to river life! Someone took the time out their enjoyment / progression to extend the favor to me and I feel obligated to return it to those whom are genuinely interested! Straps / paddles etc. are the cost of doing business IMO. and I try to let that kind of stuff roll off my back... from my experience people who are new to the life will eventually ask the costs to get involved, and at that point I'll break it down for them. I enjoy watching their eyes grow for a few as I rattle off gear costs, but always end the conversation with it's the cheapest form of badass entertainment / adventure that I've come across and that if I can hook them, then I have another member to bring into the crew/fold!


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## Big_B (Feb 17, 2019)

Anything hard or metal touching the raft with the exception of the frame. Other than that I could really care less. I specifically leave my fucks at home when I head to the river.


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## BastrdSonOfElvis (Mar 24, 2005)

Big_B said:


> I specifically leave my fucks at home when I head to the river.


Best post in the whole thread.


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## TonyMancuso (Jun 27, 2016)

follow @dangerropes on Instagram


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## Montet202 (Aug 22, 2020)

TonyMancuso said:


> follow @dangerropes on Instagram


Woah!!! Sketchy rigs in those pics, for sure.


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## COH20man (Jul 13, 2021)

Not helping carry anything to the beach
Not handing you things in order that you ask
Saying things like "I don't know why it matters" when it has been explained on every trip you have been on
Putting on sunscreen and saying "I'm busy" so I have to get on and off the boat 10 times
Asking "have seen my chapstick"
Then wanting to row and get sunscreen all over the handles on the oars


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## Ripper (Aug 29, 2012)

COH20man said:


> Then wanting to row and get sunscreen all over the handles on the oars


That shit is the worst!!!


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

COH20man said:


> Not helping carry anything to the beach
> Not handing you things in order that you ask
> Saying things like "I don't know why it matters" when it has been explained on every trip you have been on
> Putting on sunscreen and saying "I'm busy" so I have to get on and off the boat 10 times
> ...


I hope you're describing a _former_ tripmate!!


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## tBatt (May 18, 2020)




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## Nanko (Oct 20, 2020)

One of my pet peeves is people that have excessive pet peeves. Safety is one thing, but, other than that, it’s vacation. So you got sand in your boat…sip on a beverage and stare at the walls for awhile. I promise it’ll be OK.


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## PDX Duck (Mar 17, 2015)

People who drink coffee

People who drink dark beer in +90F heat

Backing up a trailer

Vladimir Putin


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## gnarsify (Oct 5, 2020)

PDX Duck said:


> People who drink dark beer in +90F heat


You know who does this? Psychopaths do this... I'd argue that's an uninvite from any future trips 😜


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## Conundrum (Aug 23, 2004)

I remember when Dales and Old Chubb were the only canned micros available and the one time I tried an OC on the Main in late July. It still haunts me.


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## jamesthomas (Sep 12, 2010)

Old Chub is NOT a warm weather beer.


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## semievolved (Nov 12, 2011)

Montet202 said:


> This is exactly why every single strap on my boat is either a loop strap, or is hitched.


NRS sells some things I think they're called strap slides that are cheap and perfect for this. And because the strap can't pull out in either direction it effectively makes one strap act as two (if one side breaks, other side is still attached). Takes about a foot of strap length, only drawback.


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## gringoanthony (Jul 4, 2009)

Loose perimeter lines, coiled ropes on the bow (or any rope, anywhere on a boat, that isn't in a bag) and non-locking biners.


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## catraftyak (Feb 25, 2014)

People talking incessantly, especially when I'm paddle guiding. If we're coming into a rapid everyone needs to hear ME, not you. I now incorporate the topic into my safety talk because I've dealt with it so often.
As far as empty cans, as soon as the first full one comes out of the cooler, I make it clear to everyone, as soon as you finish it, it goes from your hand into the cooler.
Also, anyone who closes your valves too tight. I have an Achilles which someone overtightened the military valve unknown to me at the takeout when we were rolling and deflating it. At the next put-in I discovered the rivet was broken and wouldn't hold air.
Not having your keys at the takeout because you left them in someone else's rig. Won't even debate this one.


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## PDX Duck (Mar 17, 2015)

Keys - ha ha - why I carry 3 sets now!

Dales - this I remember!


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## peernisse (Jun 1, 2011)

My main rigging thing is I do not do a gear pile in the stern, unless I absolutely must do because of overflow gear on the trip. In those cases I put items like trash/recycle, wood, buckets etc. back there, or unused kayaks/rolled duckies. I prefer my dry bags attached to the frame solidly, and that they act as padding. Why I do not roll with the stern gear pile - it rarely is possible to secure things as bomber like that compared to attached to the frame; it looks goofy; it affects the spin, draft, and trim of the boat; it impedes people getting on and off, or back in, the boat; it affects the response in windy conditions; I like to hit shore for scouts and at camp with my stern and sometimes need to hop out quickly to catch the boat and a gear pile prevents this. I know this is probably an unpopular opinion, I am just mentioning it and I do not disparage the gear pile technique at all, it is just my personal preference.


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## peernisse (Jun 1, 2011)

zbaird said:


> The IK thing is a real annoyance. I will say tho, they can be worth their weight in gold in an emergency. Getting a line to a wrapped boat, getting a swimmer across, etc. They can be carried back upstream, inflated and used accordingly. Hard to do with a raft. We have taken a ducky on the last 2 grand trips and never inflated it once. I though we were going to need it for a boat that had a botched crystal run but it worked out.


Good call. I once had to blow up a rolled IK on my boat to paddle it and some equipment into the room of doom to help my coworker who had flipped in skull hole and was upside down in the room with his 4 passengers. The IK was the only way I could have gotten in there to help them.


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## peernisse (Jun 1, 2011)

cuzin said:


> More of a derigging pet peeve - when someone hits the beach and runs off with personal gear to snag the best campsite, while everyone else unloads group gear, sets up the kitchen, sets up the groover, etc. I like the “fire line” approach, where everyone gets all the boats unloaded together, helps set up the kitchen and groover so that nights cook crew can set up their tent and get changed.


Yes! I agree with all of this!


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## peernisse (Jun 1, 2011)

Tntslc said:


> Guides hogging/ rigging on the boat ramp is my pet peeve


A good and organized commercial company will be on and off any ramp in a flash. And they should have it dialed, they do it all the time. I hate when I see a commercial company taking up the ramp and disorganized as if they were a private trip. That is not a good company...


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## Conundrum (Aug 23, 2004)

peernisse said:


> My main rigging thing is I do not do a gear pile in the stern, unless I absolutely must do because of overflow gear on the trip. In those cases I put items like trash/recycle, wood, buckets etc. back there, or unused kayaks/rolled duckies. I prefer my dry bags attached to the frame solidly, and that they act as padding. Why I do not roll with the stern gear pile - it rarely is possible to secure things as bomber like that compared to attached to the frame; it looks goofy; it affects the spin, draft, and trim of the boat; it impedes people getting on and off, or back in, the boat; it affects the response in windy conditions; I like to hit shore for scouts and at camp with my stern and sometimes need to hop out quickly to catch the boat and a gear pile prevents this. I know this is probably an unpopular opinion, I am just mentioning it and I do not disparage the gear pile technique at all, it is just my personal preference.


Honest questions...how much gear do you bring that your stack gets that high? Here's a 15' boat for two on an 8 day with all the group fire, 2 5-gal water jugs, stoves, ash, safety, part of the kitchen, hand wash buckets, room for trash, and shade tarps plus personal gear. Not too tall and I would say as secure as anything. Ever worry about what happens to all the soft dry bags up high if you flip your boat?

No judgement on your preference as I also wonder what people have in the giant santa bags that are shoulder height on some peoples boats.


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## peernisse (Jun 1, 2011)

BastrdSonOfElvis said:


> For someone who hasn’t rigged a boat before but will be soon, threads like this are gold.
> I do wish there was general consensus on some things, tho. Like spare oar rigging directionality. I’ve heard knowledgeable people make reasoned arguments for blades forward and for blades aft.
> Is that one of those things that one just needs to try both out and decide what you like?


To give one piece of rigging advice that will serve you well on your rigging journey, try to use hitch straps or girth hitch your straps in place so they are always there for the whole trip and the rig the same objects in the same place with the dedicated, hitched strap(s) each day. That one thing alone sets you up for success. As far as spares, I see it either way. I run the blades forward, some of my friends run the handles forward. I do think if you needed to get your spare free in a hurry, it is easier if the handle is forward because it will slip out of its strap whereas a blade often gets stuck unless you leave the strap loop quite loose, and you have the blade in your hand meaning you can set it right into the oarlock, pull the oar backward through the oarlock until it sets then grab the handle and you are good to go. Enjoy the life-long journey that is raft rigging...


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## peernisse (Jun 1, 2011)

caverdan said:


> I hate when someone unstraps something on my boat and doesn't put the end of the strap back in the cam. I've lost a lot of straps over the years because of this. 🤯


This is why all my straps are hitched in place. And when not in use, I do NOT want the strap end in the buckle because it creates an entrapment loop.


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## peernisse (Jun 1, 2011)

Conundrum said:


> Honest questions...how much gear do you bring that your stack gets that high? Here's a 15' boat for two on an 8 day with all the group fire, 2 5-gal water jugs, stoves, ash, safety, part of the kitchen, hand wash buckets, room for trash, and shade tarps plus personal gear. Not too tall and I would say as secure as anything. Ever worry about what happens to all the soft dry bags up high if you flip your boat?
> 
> No judgement on your preference as I also wonder what people have in the giant santa bags that are shoulder height on some peoples boats.
> 
> View attachment 83256


Yeah if I need to use the stern, I have a plywood beaver tail to suspend-rig as a floor and I will keep the load at a height like is shown in the photo. I am thinking of the towering piles I see folks with sometimes. Also, I am an ex guide and we always had passengers in the stern as well as the bow so maybe I am just accustomed to it for that reason.


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## TJP (Nov 20, 2020)

peernisse said:


> My main rigging thing is I do not do a gear pile in the stern, unless I absolutely must do because of overflow gear on the trip. In those cases I put items like trash/recycle, wood, buckets etc. back there, or unused kayaks/rolled duckies. I prefer my dry bags attached to the frame solidly, and that they act as padding. Why I do not roll with the stern gear pile - it rarely is possible to secure things as bomber like that compared to attached to the frame; it looks goofy; it affects the spin, draft, and trim of the boat; it impedes people getting on and off, or back in, the boat; it affects the response in windy conditions; I like to hit shore for scouts and at camp with my stern and sometimes need to hop out quickly to catch the boat and a gear pile prevents this. I know this is probably an unpopular opinion, I am just mentioning it and I do not disparage the gear pile technique at all, it is just my personal preference.


I’d be curious to see a picture of your setup if you have one to post.


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## peernisse (Jun 1, 2011)

Conundrum said:


> Honest questions...how much gear do you bring that your stack gets that high? Here's a 15' boat for two on an 8 day with all the group fire, 2 5-gal water jugs, stoves, ash, safety, part of the kitchen, hand wash buckets, room for trash, and shade tarps plus personal gear. Not too tall and I would say as secure as anything. Ever worry about what happens to all the soft dry bags up high if you flip your boat?
> 
> No judgement on your preference as I also wonder what people have in the giant santa bags that are shoulder height on some peoples boats.
> 
> View attachment 83256


"Honest questions...how much gear do you bring that your stack gets that high?" -- My post was saying specifically that I do not roll with a high stack...
Good points though. I found this photo from a MF trip. I definitely have group stuff in my stern on this trip, and my wife's rig bag on top was pulled up for a minute, I was getting into it for a shirt I think. I am mostly thinking of the towering gear piles I see sometimes, I avoid that. I don't worry about dry bags on the frame corners and they are padding and nice to lean on. Cheers.


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## peernisse (Jun 1, 2011)

TJP said:


> I’d be curious to see a picture of your setup if you have one to post.


This shows my boat in what I consider a pretty tight rig without a towering gear pile in the stern...This was a 5 or 6 day Salt River trip.


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## BenSlaughter (Jun 16, 2017)

peernisse said:


> This shows my boat in what I consider a pretty tight rig without a towering gear pile in the stern...This was a 5 or 6 day Salt River trip.
> View attachment 83260


That's impressive! I definitely roll with a gear pile, not sure how else I would do it. Honestly, I like having it back there, to lean on.
The stern of my boat contains(on average)
Groover
Buckets
Propane tank 
Dog food bucket
Chairs
Clothes bag(s) 
Camp bag(tent, sleeping bags, therma rests, pillows, etc)
Cots
Roll-a-table
Blaster...
And a few misc items.

Water jug goes on the captain's floor.
Charcoal gets rigged up front. Front dry box is my kitchen, and with my dog\a passenger + beer coolers balances the load very well.

I don't see how I could distribute it elsewhere, without looking like the Clampets. 
Impressed that you can make it work!








That was a solo MF\Main trips few years ago. 13 days, I think.


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## Paco (Aug 3, 2007)

jamesthomas said:


> Old Chub is NOT a warm weather beer.


I have a friend who still gets shit about the time he only brought Old Chub on a July Yampa trip. 
He figured Old Chub is so good, everyone else would be happy to trade him some lagers for it. 
Even thought he might get 2 to 1.


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## GOTY2011 (Mar 18, 2018)

Selway, ID a few years back. I rig a little differently for eight + day trips but this was a solid four day job. Two dry boxes, Yeti 105 with a Hopper for a backrest, some shared kitchen gear, and fly rods. Pretty good Westslope Cutthroat fishing!


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## jhad (Mar 4, 2015)

gnarsify said:


> Oohhh! I want to play!
> 
> My first pet peeve is when people think they're being 'helpful' when leaving camp and just start piling shit on my boat. Then I have to unload and reload all the gear because the 'helpful' person doesn't know my system.
> 
> ...


What’s your empty can solution?
right into mesh bag/rocket box?
I usually throw them on the floor and clean up at camp however I just made a significant upgrade to my boating situation and intend on respecting my new raft a hella lot better than my old.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

jhad said:


> What’s your empty can solution?
> right into mesh bag/rocket box?
> I usually throw them on the floor and clean up at camp


You can smash your cans so they don’t have sharp edges. Press 4-5 diagonal wrinkles all around the side of the can and smash/twist. They then won’t slice your boat, your hand or your leg.

And if you drink all your beer, the cans don’t get drippy and sticky. If passengers don’t drink the last sip they should rinse their cans before smashing

A feed sack or light mesh/drag bag makes a good can bag.

Empty cans in my dory go in my oarsmans footwell in front of my footrest or in the side hatch


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## zbaird (Oct 11, 2003)

rinsed and into a mesh bottom captains bag if Im solo or extra drag bag that's clipped on in the passenger footwell.


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## DoStep (Jun 26, 2012)

Here's what a guy had on a recent trip. He made several cuts radiating from the hole, which was just a hair smaller than beer cans so they don't pop out. The bottom was drilled with many 1/2" holes to allow for draining and it doubled as a pretty good rinsing bucket. That particular boat went through a LOT of cans, the bucket was up to the task.


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## Easy Tiger (Jun 22, 2016)

DoStep said:


> Here's what a guy had on a recent trip. He made several cuts radiating from the hole, which was just a hair smaller than beer cans so they don't pop out. The bottom was drilled with many 1/2" holes to allow for draining and it doubled as a pretty good rinsing bucket. That particular boat went through a LOT of cans, the bucket was up to the task.
> 
> View attachment 83281


I made the exact same thing with a 2.5 gallon bucket, a PVC floor drain fitting and a round boat patch. We call it "Cangina" and it works great to keep empties stashed away. Fair warning, everyone on your trip will want to put their cans into Cangina.


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## gnarsify (Oct 5, 2020)

jhad said:


> ...
> right into mesh bag/...?


Bingo!


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## cupido76 (May 22, 2009)

DoStep said:


> Here's what a guy had on a recent trip. He made several cuts radiating from the hole, which was just a hair smaller than beer cans so they don't pop out. The bottom was drilled with many 1/2" holes to allow for draining and it doubled as a pretty good rinsing bucket. That particular boat went through a LOT of cans, the bucket was up to the task.
> 
> View attachment 83281


We use buckets with a hole as well... just clipped on the top of my everything bag.

Cheap, works great, no leaking onto my gear or boat, no sharp edges to worry about.


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## Montet202 (Aug 22, 2020)

Cans go in a mesh drag bag clipped into the cockpit. Then, at camp, they get smashed by a hood and proper can hammer and stowed.


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## upacreek (Mar 17, 2021)

Montet202 said:


> Cans go in a mesh drag bag clipped into the cockpit. Then, at camp, they get smashed by a hood and proper can hammer and stowed.
> View attachment 83343
> View attachment 83344


Woah, where can I get me one of those? 

How timely that I was going to post my pet peeve about giant groups cluelessly spread out across the lauch ramp. My most recent experience being at Sand Island in July where such a group had their stuff spread out everywhere so that even the ranger could barely sneak by to get his boat in the water. And as I was trying to push off to escape their sh!tshow, they started badgering me about whether had accidentally grabbed one of their deadblow hammers. You know, the same orange indistinguishable one was all have. Just laughed and rowed away...


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## BastrdSonOfElvis (Mar 24, 2005)

Montet202 said:


> Cans go in a mesh drag bag clipped into the cockpit. Then, at camp, they get smashed by a hood and proper can hammer and stowed.
> View attachment 83343
> View attachment 83344


Those are sick I want one!!


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## Montet202 (Aug 22, 2020)

BastrdSonOfElvis said:


> Those are sick I want one!!


Unfortunately they are pretty laborious. About ten hours each. So I can’t really sell them. BUT, I have found them to be great gifts for those that throw invites my way. 😉


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## jamesthomas (Sep 12, 2010)

Nice move.


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## PDX Duck (Mar 17, 2015)

So the question is - what price would you actually be willing to sell for so worth your time / effort? If there is a price…


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## Montet202 (Aug 22, 2020)

PDX Duck said:


> So the question is - what price would you actually be willing to sell for so worth your time / effort? If there is a price…


Probably a grand, depending on the wood used. The curly maple in those hammers is pretty cheap, and a few other of the woods aren’t too spendy, but one of them ( the closest in the picture of four) has well over $100 just in material. I’d be open to making more if someone really wanted one or more. I’m always game for bartering.


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## DoStep (Jun 26, 2012)

Here is my scrap iron multi tool in action. It sets sand stakes, levels tables, and anchors small boats. And I'm not afraid of marring it up like I would be using one of those beautiful wood hammers. Man those are sweet!


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## Montet202 (Aug 22, 2020)

DoStep said:


> View attachment 83359
> 
> 
> Here is my scrap iron multi tool in action. It sets sand stakes, levels tables, and anchors small boats. And I'm not afraid of marring it up like I would be using one of those beautiful wood hammers. Man those are sweet!


Yes! That thing is awesome.
Yeah, friends have trouble using my hammer, but it’s just a tool. Functional art. Just have to build them tough enough to last. Bang em up, nothing a little sandpaper and oil can’t fix.


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## Big Wave (6 mo ago)

DoStep said:


> View attachment 83359
> 
> 
> Here is my scrap iron multi tool in action. It sets sand stakes, levels tables, and anchors small boats. And I'm not afraid of marring it up like I would be using one of those beautiful wood hammers. Man those are sweet!


Sorry DoStep but I’m bored on a Friday night. Nice back drop but your still drinking cheap beer. But at least you still have some late in the trip. I assume you drained your cooler so you still had them ice cold. 🤣


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## Wallrat (Jan 19, 2021)

Montana Cat 65 said:


> "What other pet peeves do people have? I need some extra examples in order to prove to my SO that I’m not crazy about rigging. "
> 
> This is from the post that started this particular donnybrook. He says he wants to prove to his SO that he's not crazy about rigging, when it seems clear that he, likea lot of us is crazy about rigging, and that's perfectly normal.


My pet peeve is guys that try to be Old-Man-River…in that patronizing way of “this rapid eats a lot of boats. You’re probably not ready for it, but I’ll save you afterwards “. Try taking that guy down the Grand for a really good time.


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## Kickinback (Jun 19, 2014)

I don't like nobody touching my stuff. So just keep your meat-hooks off. If I catch any of you guys in my stuff, I'll kill you. Also, I don't like nobody touching me. Now, any of you touch me, and I'll kill you.


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## Montet202 (Aug 22, 2020)

Kickinback said:


> I don't like nobody touching my stuff. So just keep your meat-hooks off. If I catch any of you guys in my stuff, I'll kill you. Also, I don't like nobody touching me. Now, any of you touch me, and I'll kill you.


Whatever, Francis.


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## Kickinback (Jun 19, 2014)

You just made the list


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## Montet202 (Aug 22, 2020)

Hey man, I’m just here


Kickinback said:


> You just made the list


Hey man, I’m just here to avoid the draft.


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## Paco (Aug 3, 2007)




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## Big Wave (6 mo ago)

Wallrat said:


> My pet peeve is guys that try to be Old-Man-River…in that patronizing way of “this rapid eats a lot of boats. You’re probably not ready for it, but I’ll save you afterwards “. Try taking that guy down the Grand for a really good time.


After taking a well deserved beat down on another thread I’ll compromise with you Wallrat 
I’ll be Old-Man-River but I won’t save you afterwards. I saw the photos where you tried to kill Charlie. So if you run that shit your more ready than me.


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## BastrdSonOfElvis (Mar 24, 2005)

Kickinback said:


> I don't like nobody touching my stuff. So just keep your meat-hooks off. If I catch any of you guys in my stuff, I'll kill you. Also, I don't like nobody touching me. Now, any of you touch me, and I'll kill you.


You win the internet today. Well played!


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## Wallrat (Jan 19, 2021)

Kickinback said:


> I don't like nobody touching my stuff. So just keep your meat-hooks off. If I catch any of you guys in my stuff, I'll kill you. Also, I don't like nobody touching me. Now, any of you touch me, and I'll kill you.


Who TF is this guy? We’ve got to get him on one of our trips. He’ll fit right in. Only…..it’s decaf for him. For sure.


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## Wallrat (Jan 19, 2021)

Big Wave said:


> After taking a well deserved beat down on another thread I’ll compromise with you Wallrat
> I’ll be Old-Man-River but I won’t save you afterwards. I saw the photos where you tried to kill Charlie. So if you run that shit your more ready than me.


 In the instance I was so horribly peeved about we had to rescue OMR, more than once…not the other way around. If you can pull it off, we’re good. it’s always interesting to learn the names of every fish in the river.
And as to Charlie…he touched my boat. He was fucking with my straps…so it had to happen.


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## DoStep (Jun 26, 2012)

Big Wave said:


> Sorry DoStep but I’m bored on a Friday night. Nice back drop but your still drinking cheap beer. But at least you still have some late in the trip. I assume you drained your cooler so you still had them ice cold. 🤣


Guilty on all accounts!


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## dean999 (Aug 4, 2020)

I can't believe nobody talked about the other rafter with the perfectly dialed boat that won't take any of the weird hard to tie down stuff. I can forgive newbies and non-boaters for almost anything, but experienced guides that "can't" take that funky folding chair someone brought drives me nuts.

My other but minor pet peeve is not giving the tl a break. They seem to have twice the work on the river and way more pre and post trip work but not given a break on duty roster.


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## BastrdSonOfElvis (Mar 24, 2005)

dean999 said:


> I can't believe nobody talked about the other rafter with the perfectly dialed boat that won't take any of the weird hard to tie down stuff. I can forgive newbies and non-boaters for almost anything, but experienced guides that "can't" take that funky folding chair someone brought drives me nuts.


Please forgive my ignorance of river trip etiquette, I’m brand new to paddling craft that can carry more than a couple small drybags, a sixer, and a breakdown paddle, but is a captain that packs efficiently and has his/her boat dialed obligated to carry other people’s random gear? Group essentials I get, kitchen items, groover, firewood, hand wash etc etc — gotta save room for that stuff — but if I forego the luxury of a giant chair in favor of one that’s more compact and stows well so that my raft isn’t Clampett fabulous and somebody shows up with more crap than they can cram into their boat…am I really expected to carry their junk?


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## Wallrat (Jan 19, 2021)

BastrdSonOfElvis said:


> Please forgive my ignorance of river trip etiquette, I’m brand new to paddling craft that can carry more than a couple small drybags, a sixer, and a breakdown paddle, but is a captain that packs efficiently and has his/her boat dialed obligated to carry other people’s random gear? Group essentials I get, kitchen items, groover, firewood, hand wash etc etc — gotta save room for that stuff — but if I forego the luxury of a giant chair in favor of one that’s more compact and stows well so that my raft isn’t Clampett fabulous and somebody shows up with more crap than they can cram into their boat…am I really expected to carry their junk?


And the answer, my good man, is: Fuck NO. Don’t subsidize Clampett behavior.


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## Big Wave (6 mo ago)

dean999 said:


> I can't believe nobody talked about the other rafter with the perfectly dialed boat that won't take any of the weird hard to tie down stuff. I can forgive newbies and non-boaters for almost anything, but experienced guides that "can't" take that funky folding chair someone brought drives me nuts.
> 
> My other but minor pet peeve is not giving the tl a break. They seem to have twice the work on the river and way more pre and post trip work but not given a break on duty roster.


Dean999 used a bad example with the “Clampett” chair but not being willing to carry a odd piece of group gear doesn’t fly. 
A common characteristic of a good trip leader is the willingness to put more effort into a trip and not even think about it. It is the responsibility of trip participants to recognize this and offer help all the way through the process.


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## Wallrat (Jan 19, 2021)

Sorry, but the chair is a perfect example. If you bring a bunch of bulky stuff when everybody else is lean and mean, you should have to live with that. There’s no point in everyone else suffering for someone being excessive.
Of course we’re talking about extra stuff, not necessary group gear.


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## Montet202 (Aug 22, 2020)

Wallrat said:


> Sorry, but the chair is a perfect example. If you bring a bunch of bulky stuff when everybody else is lean and mean, you should have to live with that. There’s no point in everyone else suffering for someone being excessive.
> Of course we’re talking about extra stuff, not necessary group gear.


Seems like two different notions here.

No, you should not bring excessive stuff and expect someone to accommodate your excessiveness.

Yes you should certainly put a little extra effort into helping with group gear, even if it upsets your perfect rig. Ie: firepan, water jugs, etc…

Maybe three; if you are excessive and your excessiveness overloads your boat rendering you unable to accommodate any group gear of any size/shape, please load your boat and gear back into your rig and show yourself out.


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## Wallrat (Jan 19, 2021)

Montet202 said:


> Seems like two different notions here.
> 
> No, you should not bring excessive stuff and expect someone to accommodate your excessiveness.
> 
> ...


Zactly.


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## Big Wave (6 mo ago)

I guess I boat with the wrong people. None of the great people I boat with would even think about asking someone else to carry any personal gear of anyone they invited along. So that didn’t even register as a possible pet peeve. 
So my new pet peeve is people bitching about quirks of people like OMR who they invite along because no one else will go with them because of bad experiences like being threatened with assault for touching their straps.


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## BastrdSonOfElvis (Mar 24, 2005)

Ok, yeah, that's what I was wondering. Basically is "hey, man, I brought too much personal shit that only I'm gonna use and it won't fit in my boat, will you carry it for me?" something that I'm expected to accommodate vs. "hey, new guy, you're carrying the groover" which is something I completely expect.


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## BenSlaughter (Jun 16, 2017)

I've got a big boat and I'm strong enough to move it around when it's heavy.
I'll gladly bring the groover, kitchen, firepan and table, extra chairs for people to use and wouldn't expect anyone else to carry any of it.

But if you think I'm gonna pack the guitar you're just learning to play, or the IK you'll only use one or two afternoons, you can pound sand.

Unless you're a hot chick and sleeping with me.
Then it'll be my cots taking the pounding. 😎


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## Conundrum (Aug 23, 2004)

What if it's a hot chick not currently sleeping with you but there's potential? It's good to set expectations before you push off.


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## Wallrat (Jan 19, 2021)

You round boat beaters can haul all kinds of crap; 8 burner stoves, 400 gallon coolers, 100 lb. Propane bottles 60 lb. fire pans, wives, girlfriends (not on the same trip), _kids even_…the elite cat drivers have to be more careful.
A chair? You want me to carry a _chair????_ Are you crazy?


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## dean999 (Aug 4, 2020)

Just my pet peeve between a guide that says sure, give it to me and the other that won't mess up their pretty rig. I've had my share of Clampet rigs, enjoy the challenge but still......


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## BenSlaughter (Jun 16, 2017)

Conundrum said:


> What if it's a hot chick not currently sleeping with you but there's potential? It's good to set expectations before you push off.


That's a fine question.
There'd better be some pretty significant potential...


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## jamesthomas (Sep 12, 2010)

Is it just me or did the “hot chick thing” sorta derail thongs I mean things here?


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## Idatah (Dec 30, 2021)

peernisse said:


> Good call. I once had to blow up a rolled IK on my boat to paddle it and some equipment into the room of doom to help my coworker who had flipped in skull hole and was upside down in the room with his 4 passengers. The IK was the only way I could have gotten in there to help them.


I just need to know if it was Hhan? -KJJ


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## Pine (Aug 15, 2017)

dean999 said:


> I can't believe nobody talked about the other rafter with the perfectly dialed boat that won't take any of the weird hard to tie down stuff. I can forgive newbies and non-boaters for almost anything, but experienced guides that "can't" take that funky folding chair someone brought drives me nuts.
> 
> My other but minor pet peeve is not giving the tl a break. They seem to have twice the work on the river and way more pre and post trip work but not given a break on duty roster.


To me, showing up with some odd-sized piece of extra cumbersome gear, like a giant folding chair, then expecting someone else to carry it, would be a jerk move.

The way the crew I boat with works is: bring anything you want on your own boat. Everyone carries some group gear like groover, water, kitchen, tarp, etc, but this is planned and agreed on WAY in advance. All passenger gear goes on the boat of the person who invited them.

Good etiquette is for passengers to hump communal gear from beach to camp, volunteer for groover duty, offer to help with meal clean up (even if they aren’t on the meal crew), and to be johnny on the spot as a general swamper.


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## MR. ED (Jan 21, 2008)

Conundrum said:


> What if it's a hot chick not currently sleeping with you but there's potential? It's good to set expectations before you push off.


A true Conundrum...hmmm


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

Pine said:


> To me, showing up with some odd-sized piece of extra cumbersome gear, like a giant folding chair, then expecting someone else to carry it, would be a jerk move.
> 
> The way the crew I boat with works is: ring anything you want on your own boat. Everyone carries some group gear like groover, water, kitchen, tarp, etc, but this is planned and agreed on WAY in advance. All passenger gear goes on the boat of the person who invited them.
> 
> Good etiquette is for passengers to hump communal gear from beach to camp, volunteer for groover duty, offer to help with meal clean up (even if they aren’t on the meal crew), and to be johnny on the spot as a general swamper.


This is a great, succinct way to put it.


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## SomeYeahoo (Jul 27, 2020)

Conundrum said:


> No judgement on your preference as I also wonder what people have in the giant santa bags that are shoulder height on some peoples boats.
> 
> View attachment 83256


Mostly because there are 5-8 people's gear in the boat, not 2! Although my rig was that high (and I had another Santa sac in the bow) on a Grand trip. But that was 23 days...


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## DidNotWinLottery (Mar 6, 2018)

This has me thinking....next big trip I am invited on, show up at the put in with something truly ridiculous and ask for others to help carry. You know, get things started right. What to bring?............


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## Montet202 (Aug 22, 2020)

DidNotWinLottery said:


> This has me thinking....next big trip I am invited on, show up at the put in with something truly ridiculous and ask for others to help carry. You know, get things started right. What to bring?............


How about a stand up bass?


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## readNrun (Aug 1, 2013)

DidNotWinLottery said:


> This has me thinking....next big trip I am invited on, show up at the put in with something truly ridiculous and ask for others to help carry. You know, get things started right. What to bring?............


A backup full size firepan and a backup to that one.


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## Will Amette (Jan 28, 2017)

Toaster oven


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## Rick A (Apr 15, 2016)

You might be on to something with the toaster oven. I have a buddy who has an oven / two burner stove combo he brings hunting.

The guy loves his pizza rolls.🤣



https://www.lowes.com/pd/Camp-Chef/5013437351?cm_mmc=shp-_-c-_-prd-_-sol-_-ggl-_-PLA_SOL_119_Grills-_-5013437351-_-online-_-0-_-0&ds_rl=1286981&gclid=CjwKCAiA8OmdBhAgEiwAShr40zLC4-QJMzKbWqOOO_oMHnc_6lq4IF1x__pDiOzgsHQ1Zzub8ZkoEBoCB1MQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds


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## Will Amette (Jan 28, 2017)

I was thinking of an electric appliance. Totally useless on the river. It would likely go back into the truck after all the hairy eyeballs, but would be worth a laugh or two.

My ex and I used to joke about bringing something like an iron when we'd go stay in State Park campgrounds. I mean, they have an electric outlet there even though we would be in a tent. 

Even better would be a HEPA air purifier, ya know, in case there's wildfires.


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## Big Wave (6 mo ago)

Matt Geatz


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## BastrdSonOfElvis (Mar 24, 2005)

DidNotWinLottery said:


> This has me thinking....next big trip I am invited on, show up at the put in with something truly ridiculous and ask for others to help carry. You know, get things started right. What to bring?............


“Hey, buddy, I have a real bad back and I can’t sleep on the ground or in a cot but this mattress and box spring won’t fit in my boat…”


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## Montet202 (Aug 22, 2020)

Big Wave said:


> Matt Geatz


I’ll take him on my boat, but don’t get pissed if he doesn’t get strapped down very well and doesn’t make it to camp.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

DidNotWinLottery said:


> This has me thinking....next big trip I am invited on, show up at the put in with something truly ridiculous and ask for others to help carry. You know, get things started right. What to bring?............


Curling iron and a generator


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## caverdan (Aug 27, 2004)

I was thinking a log splitter would be funny. 🐴


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## BastrdSonOfElvis (Mar 24, 2005)

MT4Runner said:


> Curling iron and a generator


Wait a minute...how do you know my wife?


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## hysideguy67 (Jul 15, 2021)

Gigantic boombox


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## tBatt (May 18, 2020)

Montet202 said:


> How about a stand up bass?


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## Montet202 (Aug 22, 2020)

tBatt said:


> View attachment 84389


I stand corrected.


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## BastrdSonOfElvis (Mar 24, 2005)

tBatt said:


> View attachment 84389


Oh man, wish I was there right now.


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## tBatt (May 18, 2020)

Montet202 said:


> I stand corrected.


Commercial trip with Adrift and Pixie and the Partygrass last year. We camped next to them. They let us poach their show for a set.


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