# Near Drowning on Poudre - Middle Narrows



## rasdoggy (Jan 31, 2005)

*made the news*

This was on the news tonight, they said the boater was with friends, and was under water for at least 5min. and was alive thanks to CPR/Rescue Breathing when EMS showed up and evac'd him.

No other details.


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## El Flaco (Nov 5, 2003)

Update from KCNC:

http://news4colorado.com/colorado/CO--KayakerSubmerged-dn/resources_news_html

I hope he's ok....


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## ToddG (Nov 29, 2003)

My perspective from the front of the group ...

Our large group (9 paddlers in all) was running our second lap on upper/middle/lower narrows. We took forever in upper as most of the group was engaged in removing a huge log from the right side of Supercollider. This detail may sound ancillary to the story, but I believe it ended up playing a big part in the outcome of it. 

After removing the log, we continued down through the rest of upper & into middle with a much quicker pace. Just above "Swinging Bridge" or "Green Bridge" rapid, we came up on 2 separate groups of 2 paddlers. A member of one of the groups happened to be a friend of ours who was showing his friend down middle. Though we didn't stop our parade of paddlers to chat, the 2 peeled out in the middle of our group to join us in running the boof line in the right slot of Swinging Bridge. Eddy space is limited through here, & with such a large group, I only paused long enough to watch as 4 paddlers made it through the slot successfully -- the last of whom was one of the new "guests". 

From here, you typically move left & head toward a sweet boof along the river left bank. Just upstream of the river left boof is a large flat-faced boulder in the center of the river -- this is where the incident took place (unbeknownst to us in the front of the pack). I proceded through the boof line & looked back upstream as several paddlers made it through with no problems. Just downstream is a wave train flanked by two large eddies. This is where 2 people from our group, a straggler from a separate downstream group, & I convened. We noticed a break in the parade & then saw throwbags flying upstream. We got out & ran alongside the road to find that the rest of our group along with the other "guest" & both of the other group of 2 were pulling the second "guest" up onto a river-right pile of wet boulders. They began CPR & rescue breathing immediately after removing the victim's PFD & helmet. 

A vehicle was flagged-down immediately & instructed to call 911 from Mishawaka. From river-left it was unclear whether the victim was breathing. Regardless, he had to be moved across the river to the road, but the bridge for which the rapid was named was gated & protected by two burley locks. Another vehicle was flagged down & this one happened to have bolt cutters & a cordless sawz-all. We put them to work cutting through the gate on the bridge. This vehicle also had a small ladder that worked perfectly as a makeshift backboard. Around this time the brother of one of our group members happened to be cruising the canyon & stopped to help. He offered a big foam pad & a sleeping bag. 

We loaded the victim, who was breathing but unresponsive, onto the "backboard" & carried him out of the river, up into the woods, & across the bridge. Since by the time we'd gotten him to the road, emergency response had not arrived, we loaded him into the back of the brother's Pathfinder & sped him down the canyon with a lead car. We flagged down emergency response as they approached. The victim was then loaded into an ambulance which in turn met a chopper in Poudre Park. As of tonight, the victim is recovering in PVH & is reportedly doing well. 

In my mind, several things were critical in saving this guy's life: (1.) Timing. The victim was recovered & resucitated quickly by the members of our group who were onsite; (2.)Teamwork. As big as our rescue team became, every single person played a crucial role or duty in reviving & evacuating the victim. There was some heroic shit that took place to get the victim unpinned & out of the river, & the CPR & rescue breathing shifts that revived him & kept him alive. Small things like having enough people to carry his 250 pounds up & out became big things. And the fact that decisions were made without deliberation or chaos & panic was very important; (3.) Luck. Because we took so long through upper, our group met their group at a very fortunate time. What are the odds that we'd be able to immediately flag down a truck that had bolt cutters, a sawz-all, & a "backboard"? The brother that offered the foam pad, a sleeping bag to keep the victim warm, & a surrogate emergency vehicle ... The straggler from the downstream group who was in the eddy with me happened to be an MD. He rushed back upstream with his boat & was able to assist with resucitation. The victim was very lucky; (4.) Emergency response. Though they hadn't arrived by the time we got the victim to the road, they were surprisingly fast given how busy the canyon was Saturday. 

I'm sure the guys who witnessed the actual pin have more details as to how the pin occurred & how they got the victim out of it. I was at the front of the pack & came late to assist, so above is all I can really tell you. 

There are many lessons to be learned from this situation, not the least of which is LEARN CPR & RESCUE BREATHING. Learn swiftwater rescue. Those skills absolutely saved this dude's life. 

Pce,
tg


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## Phin Diesel (Oct 14, 2003)

Just wanted to say good job to all involved in the rescue, it seems we dont hear enough about these success stories so I just wanted to jump on here and say great work.
Patrick Phinney


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## tboner (Oct 13, 2003)

Todd's summation of the incident is right on. One thing Id like to emphasize and drive home (the news report got it wrong) is that there was no professional EMS on site that resuscitated the victim but it was done by fellow boaters. If we had waited for EMS to arrive he would have died. It sounds strange hearing that because he did die. He was dead, no pulse, no breathing, dark blue for what seemed like an eternity but in actuality was a mere couple of minutes. He died and CPR brought him back. The stars aligned in many ways for this man to live yesterday but if CPR wasnt a part of this story it would have ended on a very somber note.

I know a lot of us have had a class or two but perhaps not in the last few years. I for one have slacked. And you say, yeah I know dude.. it's easy, I'll remember... pump on the chest, clear the passage way, cock the head back and then a couple of breaths in the mouth, rinse repeat.. but it's not easy, and you won't remember. Especailly if it's your best friend that your pumping on...or your girlfriend/wife. When an event unrolls on you as it did us yesterday, things get really emotioanl and crazy. Having a recent CPR course might just be what you need to seperate yourself from the emotional situation and get business done.

Thanks everyone who participated in the effort yesterday, you guys made me proud, and thanks to everyone who knows how important CPR is to this community. -trev


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## Marty (Oct 14, 2003)

*Rescuers*

Thank's for the great post Todd. This was an outstanding effort by all concerned. The actions of the boaters around Ryan, without a doubt, saved his life. Ryan's family is very thankful that such a top group of boaters surrounded Ryan yesterday. They would very much like to get in touch with the people that helped him. Pease forward name and contact information to me at [email protected] so I can forward the information to his family.

Thanks, Marty


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## Marty (Oct 14, 2003)

*Unpdate*

The are a number of people asking how Ryan is doing, so here's an update...

Although he is still in critical condition he is expected to make a full recovery. There is no sign of brain injury, thanks to the quick rescue and immediate CPR response. He does have water in his lungs, which can cause complications, however, he is getting great care and is making steady progress.

Marty


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## Camiona (Apr 8, 2005)

I'm glad he's gonna be ok....

Did anyone see the pin happen? what were the events leading up to it? 

A friend of mine just got pinned on boulder creek a week ago and it scared the crap out of him (and me too!!!)... so I'm curious.

Lauren


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## Schizzle (Mar 26, 2004)

I was running sweep yesterday when the accident happened, so I saw the event unfold from the last man down perspective. After doing the boof and crossing under the bridge, I started going left to hit the boof Todd mentioned above. Ahead of me I saw a member from our group, still in his boat, working to unpin a yellow playboat. My initial thought was, "God, he's working hard to just unpin a stupid boat", but then I saw that he looked concerned beyond a simple gear rescue and figured there must be someone in the boat. Todd covered everything about the rescue, so I'll add some details about the nature of the pin. 

First, it was in low water conditions, the pineview guage was a bit under 2'. The rapid was not powerful, but the pin had some bad physics going against it. The rock is relatively square shaped with a flat side facing the current almost squarely, but not quite. The corner that created the pin was the furthest most upstream corner of the rock. 80% of the water hitting the rock pillowed and went left and 20% went around the right side. The bottom of his boat was facing upstream and for most of its length it was against the upstream side of the rock. The person, however, was pushed over his back deck and wrapped around the right side of the rock around the leading corner. From that angle the person could not reach forward to pop his skirt and because he was pushed onto his back deck he wasn't able get the leverage he needed to really be able to push off the rock either.

Anyway, that was my view of the pin. I would also like to throw my 2 cents into Trevor's observations. Since I was the last person down I didn't know how long the boat had been pinned. When the victim came out of the water he was totally purple and his eyes when we started rescue breathing where dead. He was not breathing and I couldn't find a pulse. I used my knife to cut his neck gasket and I think that was a big help in getting the air to him and giving his jugular vein some freedom. We had good group help. Two people held his legs out of the water and above his body to push blood to the head. Two guys on each side helped roll him whenever he puked (which he did after about two minutes of rescue breathing and then almost every minute after that) to clear his airway. And we weren't completely out of the river so they also stabalized him on the rock. On the head end of the body were three people. We took turns rescue breathing, holding his head while thrusting the jaw forward to clear the airway, and another person pinched the nose. This created a situation where every breath into him was going straight to his lungs without obstruction and the breather could supercharge the victim. Everyone was cool and no one wigged.



We camped up there that night and talked about what we did right and whether there was anything we may have been able to do better. One, of many, things we did right was to start rescue breathing as soon as we were able to stabalize the victim. Which because of how many people were present we were able to do on a round rock barely larger than a coffee table still 15 feet from shore. The second thing was that we didn't put anyone else in danger during the rescue.

CONSTRUCTIVELY, here's where I felt we could have improved. First, too many throw ropes got tossed. When I was running back upstream I saw what looked like confetti streamers going off on New Years' Eve. The guy who was in the water pulling on the victim only needed one rope. A great way to help him after that would have been to live bait in someone else to help with the 250 lbs. of limp body. He couldn't pull the body by the head, but if you pulled it by anything else his head fell back underwater. I wanted to livebait in but all the throw ropes were tangled. That being said, everyone saw this pretty quickly and went in sans rope and helped out. But in chest to waist deep water with no good footing that guy was so heavy, I think one guy attached to a rope on shore would have provided a lot of leverage.

Second thing that might have helped was to remove his drytop even quicker. Someone did some chest compressions and I am not sure they were over his chest because of all the gear between the chest and the hands -- I actually think his hands were over his stomach. Not that it matters much because I think the rescue breathing made the recovery, but if we would have had to get serious about massaging the heart I think clearer alignment would have helped.



In conclusion, about half the people there had taken a swiftwater rescue class. It was interesting to see how much less time was wasted because most of the people had practiced, really practiced how to do that stuff already. They kind of naturally saw what needed to be done and stayed calm. No one really became THE leader because everyone just knew what to do or they told the less certain people what to do. It was awesome. Someone went for help. Someone determined an evacuation method. Many people helped stabalize and aid the victim. Someone got blankets. When people were carrying him out and they got tired, another guy quickly came to substitute that person's place carrying the ladder/stretcher. Just awesome all around teamwork by EVERY person there. I went back again later and thanked those contractors who had the Sawzall and the ladder, that was awesome luck. BTW, they only had to cut one bolt on the bridge so the property damage was kept to a minimum.

My hope goes out to Ryan that he'll have a full and speedy recovery.


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## Punk Ass (May 16, 2005)

*Ryan's condition*

Sunday Evening 7:00 P.M. I had a chance to see Ryan at Poudre Valley Hospital. He is currently recovering in the ICU. He seemed to be in good spirts when I arrived. He is awake and alert! He is not able to speak due to the treakea tube down his throat, however, he was able to comunicate by writing messages back and forth to family and friends. 

His condition appears to be improving. The hospital ran a CAT scan and noticed that his brain looked good, but his lungs looked cloudy due to the water intake. The hospital is hoping that in the next day or two they will be able to remove his treakea tube.

The hospital is allowing gift cards, flowers, and good wishes sent to his room.

His family has been very supportive and appreciates the teamwork that it took to save Ryan's Life. His family wants everyone to know how thankful they are for the help that was given to there son. Thank You !!!!!!!!!

Ryan say's hi with thumbs up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## rasdoggy (Jan 31, 2005)

It was said he was in a playboat.
Would the pin have been as bad if he was in a different kind of boat?


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## bigboater (Dec 10, 2003)

Hard to say either way, but I can say that it wasn't the best equipment for the job. We are very glad to hear things are going well. He has some new friends that are conected to him in special way. Please keep the updates comming.
Thank,
Matt


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## JWA (May 16, 2005)

How experienced was Ryan?


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## Schizzle (Mar 26, 2004)

Pins _can_ happen at really low flows in any class of rapid. The important thing is to watch your team while you progress down river and don't leave someone behind. That did not happen in this case, but it's a pet peeve of mine when I'm in the rear and no one looks back after a drop to see if I am still behind them. How many times have you been on a casual river and lost track of part of your group? Are they still surfing somewhere behind you, or did they go on around the next bend up ahead?


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## ToddG (Nov 29, 2003)

To address a couple questions ... to the best of my knowledge, Ryan was not very experienced. This is not a dis. Nor is it to say that he wasn't capable of doing the middle narrows. However, I think that his inexperience combined with his size relative to the boat he was paddling (Kingpin) could have definitely played a role in how things happened. Perhaps if he were in a different boat he wouldn't have been so "submerged" during the pin. Perhaps he would have been better able to make the move around the rock ... speculation. I do think that for his first run of the year in a tiny boat, Bridges or even Filter Plant would have been a better call.

Schizzle's comments about being aware of your party is spot-on. Creeking is a team sport. If you're not paying attention to what's going on behind you, then you're probably in over your head. 

Tangent: 

I'd like to see more paddlers being more realistic about their skill level & the choices they make in running "hard" water. We've all been there, we've all gotten in over our heads whether on class III or class VI. I watched yesterday as a party hacked their way down through upper & lower narrows, giggling while missing nearly every line .. & I seriously thought we were going to have a replay of Saturday. Perhaps I was just edgy from the day before, but how do you politely say "Get a f###ing clue!". I for one do not ever want to be a part of another situation like Saturday.


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## Andy H. (Oct 13, 2003)

ToddG said:


> Creeking is a team sport. If you're not paying attention to what's going on behind you, then you're probably in over your head.


Isn't ANY sport in which your life may depend on your companions a TEAM sport?

This brings up an important issue - part of teamwork is having leadership that can balance the weaknesses and strengths of the individuals in a group, and having individuals who can remember their responsibilities.

The technical trip leader should set a run order that: 1) puts the more experienced boaters in lead and sweep positions, 2) puts experienced boaters near less experienced boaters in the middle so the novices can follow the lines of more experienced, and 3) ensures that if a novice goes for a swim, there's an experienced boater nearby to assist. 

All should be working as a team and remember their assignments and responsibilities. This may require veterens to check their egos and be very mindful of their "shepherd" role. Importantly, experienced boaters have to accept that they may be required to pass up the chance to take a really sick line or to play in a hole that a novice is following them into. The experienced boaters should be paying attention to the lead & sweep boaters and particularly to any novices nearby. 

A couple of examples of experienced boaters showing poor leadership:

1) I know a story of a hot kayaker leading a group into Sunshine Falls, then stopping to play while the others who couldn't see him from above followed him into a hole like lemmings. The hole would've been enough of a challenge for the less experienced boaters without first the leader, then the second, kayaks already in it. There was at least one really bad swim that could've been avoided and from what I understand, the swimmer never regained her confidence in Class IV water.

2) I watched as an experienced boater in a play cat made a really slick move at the top of Siedell's which his two novice rafter friends following had no chance of making. The lead boater stroked his ego but did so at the expense of his friends who both flipped their rafts. Ironically he'd been in too much of a hurry to stop and scout with the novices but was then delayed by righting their boats and regrouping.

No matter how good a boater someone is, if they can't look after novices and be willing to sacrifice some of their play experience for the sake of less-experienced companions, they still have a lot to learn. An experienced boater who is also an egotistical show-off can be more of a liability than an asset.

Be safe,

--Andy


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## Gary E (Oct 27, 2003)

Andy I disagree...I see the point your trying to make yet I feel It is YOUR responsability to make your own judgements regarding your level and safety...Like Todd said we have all gotten in over our heads,it's part of the learning curve we all strive to push past...When I go out with my creeking friends I don't look for the weak link in the group,I look and myself and make sure I keep my shit tight...Your life depends on your decision making for the most part(freak things do happen,yet for most accidents there was a mistake with an individual decision...Whatever it may be)Not your friends...The friends are there,so when something goes wrong you have options...But ultimately your decision effects you as your the only one in your kayak...What Todd was saying is in difficult(4+,5) water their should be NO sheppard role,the group should be comfortable enough to watch their ass and whats going on around them...Kayaking is not a team sport until the shit hits the fan..

As for being on a browns or royal gorge,waterton,play park I think most great boaters I've seen will help novices without blinking an eye...Paddle safe and nice job to the peps who were there for ryan....
Gary


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## Ken C (Oct 21, 2003)

*True Heroes*

Great Job to all of you who saved his life!!

I had a pin in the same section and I believe on the same rock about 10 years ago in a dagger cross fire in relatively low water. Fortunately my head was above water, and my paddling partner saved my butte quickly. AWA statistics posted here previously show the majority of deaths take place in class 2 water. Great feedback about what should happen and what did happen. You are all awesome. Don't let the second guessing that inevitalbly takes place on this forum make you think otherwise!!

Ken


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## medman (Mar 10, 2004)

First--helluva job to all those who took part in the rescue. This is one lucky guy considering that statistically speaking, CPR in a pulseless individual is almost useless. Odds of a good outcome are very slim so hats off to all of you sho kept your cool and saved this man's life.
I agree with all of the comments posted. I don't think that it's all team or all individual. YOU have to make the right decision as to whether YOU should be on that stretch of water, no one can make that for you, but....once you're on the water I think that we should look out for one another in a group and make sure that someone's not missing. This may mean a sweep position or missing some surfing opportunities ect. BUt, if you're not comfortable with that person in your group or taking on those responsibilities I think that you have a right to tell them that they should not be on that stretch with your group. I'm not a class V boater, not even a solid IV boater and so when I boat with my solid V buddies we have an understanding that it;s an educational/safety minded trip. However, I wouldn't be offended if they told me to sit it out b/c they wanted to play some more or do some harder sections and not have to "babysit". Teaching less experience boaters is how we can give back to the sport--we all had to learn. But, that doesn't mean we have to do it every time we're on the river--you have to be able to enjoy yourself too.


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## Brian @ the Mountain Shop (Apr 12, 2004)

Hey all-

I just returned from visiting Ryan. Here's an update:

His trachea tube has been removed and he's talking, aleit quietly, on his own. He and his family are psyched on all the support they've received from the Buzz and Fort Collins communities. Ryan is planning to be out of the hospital in two days and is already talking about the party to throw when he's feeling better!

I'm sure everybody is as psyched as we are at the shop that Ryan's recovery has gone so well to this point.

Be safe,


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## Andy H. (Oct 13, 2003)

Hey Gary,

From what I can decipher from your post, you seem to be missing the point of what I said. I don't know how you got the idea that I'm saying anyone doesn't have the responsibility to decide the level and safety of a river they boat. Of course they do. Folks need to be aware of what's going on around them and whether someone's in trouble. 

--Andy


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## Gary E (Oct 27, 2003)

Andy,what I got from your post is"experienced boaters screwed the Novice boaters" ect...I see some of your points and agree we have to look out for each other..What I don't agree with is your take on mother duck being responsable for baby ducks bad lines and ass beatings...There has to be ACCOUNTABILITY for your own actions/decisions in your boat,thats all I was saying...I think we agree that most if not all paddlers would act if someone is in trouble and do your best to help make it best case...

When I paddle with my friends I don't even know who "the trip leader"is,as I don't feel we have what you are talking about in the upper post(an alpha paddler)...I am accountable for myself and watch out for my buddy's...I guess we are just in different modes on the water...It's all good,be safe and glad we got to chat...
Gary


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## CORiverRat (May 17, 2005)

*Great job, great info, lessons to be learned*

Great job to all those involved in the accident. And thanks for all the well thought out and very informative posts about what was done, how it was done, and the well thought out evaluations by those involved of what was done, how it was done, what was done well and what could be done better if anyone ever finds themselves in a similar situation. We all get to learn from others successes and mistakes.

Thanks again and best wishes to all involved, victim and rescuers.

Roger


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## jaffy (Feb 4, 2004)

I'm glad to hear Ryan's doing well. It gives me the heebie jeebies everytime I see an ambulance tearing up the canyon; I'm glad this time it turned out ok.

Gary & Andy - I think you both essentially agree, you're just talking about two totally different situations. Having experienced boaters taking novices down class III is not the same responsibilities as a bunch of experienced boaters running class IV-V together. Beginners who don't know how to read water yet are trusting their experienced friends to either lead them down a line they can handle or help them scout the rapid so they know where they need to go. If you're taking someone down a stretch of river that they wouldn't run without your help and guidance, you HAVE to take some responsibility for their safety.


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## El Flaco (Nov 5, 2003)

I absolutely agree with Gary- this particular case ended up with many folks from another party rallying to out together a phenomenal rescue. It's my understanding that Ryan was up there with one other person, but there were a number of other groups on the same section. Conditions and factors aside (flow, boat choice, rapid difficulty, skill), this was something that we can all look to as a fortunate outcome to an incident that should send all of us to Swiftwater courses and CPR refreshers.

In the case of high stakes boating (as Gary said, IV+, V, or wilderness boating) you have to look as much at yourself & your own limitations in the same way you look at your partners- because ultimately, you put your crew at risk if they have to get in the water to rescue you. In that regard, creeking / big water becomes part solo sport, part expeditionary team sport. It's your responsibility to know when to eddy out a walk if you're over your head- as much for your sake as for your partners. The "shepherd" role only applies as much as the info that the most experienced boater can provide a competent boater- he/ she is not making that must-make eddy for you. 

By the way- for those of you that don't know- for all his bravado & brash talk, Gary E is flat-out one of the safest class V boaters that I've ever paddled with, and I know he would risk his life to save mine. So he deserves to expect the same from you- I think that's all he's saying.


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## rasdoggy (Jan 31, 2005)

*Personal accountability*

Now that this topic has reached this point (personal accountability) there is something I want to say as a new boater, I have to decide on when I should get out and stay out or when I should paddle and maybe swim or take my beating and hopefully swim away. 
I personally dont have a roll yet and it maybe sometime before I do, it keeps me from paddling in some places I would like to, but it will not keep me from trying out some paddling experiences (where I feel I belong) but that being said how as a new paddler do I choose where I should go and shouldnt be? Common sense and education. When in doubt, stay out. 

Now as a Scuba Instructor and being used to taking responsibility for those around me I need to add this, when you are in an activity that could involve rescuing others you need to choose if you are able/want to, if you feel like you cant /dont, then maybe you should paddle only with people at your level or better yet alone, as even with your peers there could be a problem, I teach my students to rely on them selves but to be there for their buddy and for those close to them in the event of one even if they are not their buddy. 
Maybe Kayaking could take a lesson from Scuba in this respect???

In everything that I have read about kayaking/river running it says that you should have a strong paddler in the lead, taking turns leading and a strong paddler following, also taking turns. Anytime you have boaters going down a run they dont know.


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## ToddG (Nov 29, 2003)

my comment, "creeking is a team sport", has been a mantra for several years now. 

it relates to higher-end whitewater & the teamwork needed to tackle it safely. it applies as much to off-river situations as on. it means that each person on the team is entrusted to make smart decisions for themselves & for the team. it means that you always have someone you trust watching your back, & when shit hits the fan, there's some level of competence you can rely on. it means that if someone is not feeling it that day, they are able to either get their shit together mentally or admit that they're blowing it, & then make the right decisions for themselves & the team. it means that if someone who is not up to snuff is glomming onto the group/run, you politely excuse them & don't feel guilty about it. it means that if you are the liability, you are mature enough to accept that & make the right call. it refers to the tight bond that happens among a team that communicates well & works together to accomplish great things & HAVE FUN doing it. that's how you come back from a trip with good stories. that's all i mean when i say that


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## adrock (Apr 28, 2004)

*the ryan rescue*

I was second to last paddler in the group of nine (the todd G group). Here is what I experienced and some things I learned from the rescue. 

Firstly, I talked to punk ass (aaron) today as we were interviewed by nine news this morning at PVH. We went in to see Ryan afterwards and he looks good. Also, just FYI, FOX news came to my house this evening, why they came to my house or how they got my name I am not sure but I talked to them for 5 minutes and emphasized the incredible team effort.

Also, at the hospital, Ryan's family expressed their extreme and very sincere gratitude to everyone that helped.

As I came through green bridge in middle narrows I noticed a yellow boat pinned and saw ropes flying. I grabbed the slack water to the river right of the pin rock and worked my way up to ryan. He was frantically trying to get his head out of the water and it was extremely difficult to grab him as it was everything I could do to keep my position next to the rock. I grabbed his life vest and pulled as hard as I could. I grabbed his boat, pulled as hard as I could, nothing. At one point he was able to grab the top of my boat and get a breathe but the force of his weight just subbed my creek boat. Plus, he was super panicked so he didnt grab my loop or really see where exactly I was positioned.

Great rope tosses (yes, maby one too many) were floating across his body but he could not grab lines nor was I in position to attach a rope to his boat or body. Thinking back on it though, I would have directed a throw to me and beaned it to my vest or boat, and tried to then attach my leash (or hand) to his boat. Granted, his boat was pretty much upside down and I didnt have a visual on a security loop. The other thing I might have done is try to get on that pin rock and pushed on his boat from above (this would have been super tricky but worth a try.) This all happened so damn fast, the ultimate challenge was trying to be creative and stay calm. 

So Ryan pretty muched stopped struggling and I began shit myself (this is like 15 seconds after I pulled in next to the pin rock) as Matt jumped in the water from upstream and got between the boat and the rock. As matt pushed from river left upstream on the boat, I pulled on ryans body downstream. How Matt was able to position himself between the rock and the boat, and generate force upstream, is pretty fucking baffling to me. It was the crux move that pretty much decided whether or not Ryan had a chance.

As Ryan washed free of the pin I let go of his body and boat which Matt was now attached to. I had to bounce through some wierd junk semi-upside down and pull my shit together. Ryan's boat followed me and I plowed it to a broach rock next to shore. At this point I was forced to exit the river on the left bank as the right side had cliffed out. I ran up and watched the incredible effort to revive ryan, agonizing from the roadsize shore.

I then watched several calm paddlers pull together and bring ryan back to life with compressions and breathes. Absolutely amazing.

My little brother Cisco serendipitously showed up at the scene at the time of CPR and had a blanket and some pillows and a huge foam pad which we used on the ladder as a backboard. We also used his vehicle to get Ryan to the ambulance. Big thanks to him and his calm fast thinking.

I think my main lessons:

1. Dont give up. Even if someone stops moving, as freaky as that is. As long as you can keep the rescue from taking someone elses life, keep trying shit, new shit, old shit, talk to eachother keep it going.

2. I noticed that ryans vest was not a great paddling vest, I think it had less flotation then mine and I am 160lbs, he is 250. I think more flotation would have helped him get breathes and aided his rescue hugely.

3. get current on your cpr and rescue breathing ( I know, already mentioned). Along with that, put a mask in your dry bag, keep it with you on the river. Just ask the guys that gave breathes whom I'm sure can still taste ryan's puke in their mouths, not fun.

4. Always look back and stay somewhat close, no matter what you are running. As we all know, most of this shit goes down in the CIII or IV drops. If someone in your group gets pinned and has limited breathing ability, you are going to have to get to them very very fast. This is hard to do if you are 100 yards down stream.

salud and thanks to everyone, I think the river ultimately blessed us that day, even though it was probably one of the hardest emotional experiences for a lot of us.

-am


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## bigboater (Dec 10, 2003)

Thanks for that recount adrianmatthew. I have waited to give my account because I was not entirely sure what happened. In the heat of the moment I was operating on instinct and adrenaline so my memory is foggy.

As mentioned, I was on the river left side of the rock so I was unaware of what was happening on the river right side. I paddle to river left and ditched my boat. Someone else was also in that eddy and got out of his boat too. I jumped in and swam to the rock. I was almost in arms reach of his boat when the current started to pull me back. I was clawing at the rock when ropes came at me. I grabbed a rope and pulled my way to the bow of Ryan's boat. Using the rope as leverage with one hand, I was able to push the bow of his boat with the other hand freeing the pin. When the boat was unpinned (keep in mind the rock was blocking my view of Ryan and all that was happening on river right) I didn't know he was unconscious. I got pulled around the rock with him and his boat. I realized he was unconscious and pulled his skirt and pulled him out of the boat. We both got washed up on the wet rocks down stream. Exhausted from the swim, I couldn't pull his body up onto the slick rocks. I will never forget the frustration I felt and how helpless I was when I couldn't pull him up onto the rocks. Others came to help, one person swimming from upstream and another from shore (I think?). This is where the details are foggy for me. I have no idea who was who and who was doing what. We pulled him to shore with help from more people on river right and started CPR. I think the rest can be summed up in the other posts. 

I need to know, did I interrupt anyone elses attempts at successfully rescuing him? I have been running the scenario through my head over and over wondering what I might have done better or if I did something wrong. Now I realize that there was another attempt going on the other side. I would very much like to have a reunion so we can compare notes and piece together the whole story. This has been an overwhelming emotional experience to which I have never felt before. The few memories I have run through my mind over and over every minute of the day and they aren't getting weaker - but stronger.

Great job to all! I am amazed at how everything just came together. It seemed like 10 or so people were just doing their job and everything pieced together like a puzzle. It was an honor to work with you all. I look forward to meeting Ryan and telling him he's horrible kisser.
Matt


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## Marty (Oct 14, 2003)

*Article in Local Paper*

http://coloradoan.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050517/NEWS01/505170319/1002


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## adrock (Apr 28, 2004)

*ryan rescue*

Matt, just a quick note. You went above and beyond and I think ultimately saved ryans life. It was a team effort and you did not interfere with my efforts on the other side, you aided them. I was not able to pull him off by myself, and dont know if I would have been able to...

The 'other things I could have done' keep cycling through my head as well, I think it is a great idea for us all to get together and put together a detailed account. 

Maby Todd could organize this.

Matt, feel good, feel great. We did it. We all saved his life.


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## Livingston (Jan 8, 2004)

Since I started creeking, I've always duct taped a 3 ft piece of flexible plastic tubing (I think it's called Tygon) to my bulkhead. Ryan could not have gotten to the tube as I understand the situation, but a rescuer might have been able to get theirs to him before he inhaled water and lost conciousness.

I've only had to rip it out of my boat once on Willow creek when a friend tried to run over a log and got squirted. We pulled him free and didn't need the snorkle, but I was positive of his survival due to a simple piece of tube that costs pennys per foot at any hardware store. 

I don't remember the statistic exactly, but most whitewater drownings occur in pretty shallow water with the victim's head mere inches or a couple feet from the surface.

After reading all the accounts of this incident, my crew can expect to have some tube and duct tape at the next put-in.

Note: Don't get the tube too long or too large a diameter, you need to be able to purge a whole tube full of water with whatever air you have left in your lungs. Too small and you will have trouble getting enough air through in a paniced state. 3' and 3/8" ID is about right.
*If you have the tube and valve that Rapid Air sells, be warned that the way that the valve works, you will not be able to clear the tube of water. The double check valve works great with the pressurized air, but doesn't really make sense for a snorkle.*

-Darren


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## gh (Oct 13, 2003)

To you people that were there, you guys did an amazing job. I would see it as a priveledge to boat with any of you or to buy you a beer.
Thanks for the great recount as I hope it will help me and others if they are presented with this situation in the future.


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## gapers (Feb 14, 2004)

It says in the coloradoan that they were met by an EMT in the canyon. Does anyone know what he looked like? Possibly a big, jolly ol man that kinda looks like Santa Claus, with a big grey beard??


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## redbeard (Nov 6, 2003)

good point about the tubing, I think I will include that from now on, even tho I'm no IV V boater!

great job everybody, I think I'll go look into a CPR refresher...


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## JWA (May 16, 2005)

I appreciate all your comments, been on the water all my life but very new to this sport. This mishap can make it very scary. Helps us new guys understand more about it all. Seem like a very tight and helpful bunch.


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## Don (Oct 16, 2003)

*Quick Air*

Darrin,
The hose might work for a little bit while testing on dry land, but it's not the same in the water. The human lung can only displace a certern amount of volume by breathing deeply. And, when it comes to exhaling where does it go? Back into the tube. So, in all reality your rebreathing your own air. With each breath you reducing the amount of O2. Within a few minutes you would get dizzy and possibly passout. Plus, the added weight of the water on the body reduces the amount of air volume that can be sent into the lungs.

Solution: Quick Air. From Rapid Products (the same guys who make the Rapid Air). They have added their mouth piece to the maximum length of hose that can be used. Now you can breath from the hose, and exhale through the mouth piece. No need to remove the mouth piece from you mouth between breaths. You get full airborn O2 with each breath. Just what the doctors ordered. We sell them at the shop. I feel that every Creek Boater should have one in their boat. They are cheap, tested, and work. Give one a look the next time your in.


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## TimWalker (Oct 25, 2003)

Don,

I appreciate your boosting of professionaly made breathing devices, but the tubing is worth having. Purge it, breathe in through your mouth, out through your nose. I remember in the Arkansas, at the entrance to the Royal gorge, a guy died pinned on that old tree by Dvoraks. When the accident happened his lone paddling buddy was holding him up, he was stable but the one guy couldn't pull him out of the boat by himself. From what I was told by the paddling buddy that survived (I'm not gonna bring his name into it), they decided since he was stable that the other would run up to Dvoraks for help. Something happened and the boat shifted just enough to take his head under water. He probably could have held the tube out of the water and used it to breathe all by himself. So, I'd suggest it as it could make enough of a difference. However, I also think the breathing device is a good idea!


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## TimWalker (Oct 25, 2003)

To all those involved in the accident, you should be proud. I know that your story evokes emotions all across the paddling community. I'm happy to hear all worked out in Ryan's favor and am so happy for his family. God Bless! Whoever you god is.


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## rasdoggy (Jan 31, 2005)

Don's statement about the length of hose is true, depending on the depth of the lungs in the water. The avarage Scuba snorkel is 17'' to 20'' do to the compression of water on the chest over 24''+ most people can't inhale fullyand for co2 build up. The breathing in thru the mouth/tube out thru the nose would work to stop co2 but not much deeper than 24'' for the lungs to expand with the breath, so you couldn't even give rescue breaths to a person below that depth, But shallower than 24'' It works great, back in the olden days of Scuba training we did snorkel to mouth breating in training class before the pocket mask came along.


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## esp (Jun 13, 2004)

To all those involved with Ryan's rescue,

You guys did an amazing job under incrediable circumstances to save his life. Feel good about that. As a firefighter/emt, i can say with total confidence that the operations of Ryan's rescue went perfectly. The otcome could not have been any better. If you look hard enough at anything you will find flaws, so what. You guys did a stellar job. That opperation required lots of man/woman power. You had it. That job required lots of expertise. You had it. It required lots of team work. You had it. 

I personally can think of hundreds of incidents in the fire service that dont go so well or even have the desired outcomes met. And this with people who are trained everyday to deal with these types of high stress incidents.

My point is this, don't keep rehashing this incident in your head. Do have a group de-briefing/reunion asap. Keep it positive. Celabrate life.

Again, great job to all of you.

Ryan, I wish you a speedy recovery, and hope to see all of you on the river.

Ed


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## Livingston (Jan 8, 2004)

All,

I probably should have started a new thread, appologies for the tangent. But I feel stongly about safety issues and thought the "tube" idea might save a life in the future and get more views here.

Don,

You are correct about the water pressure acting to collapse the lungs and making it more difficult to inhale the deeper the chest is in the water, Quick Air does nothing to improve that situation over a simple tube, but...

3' of tubing will keep the end of the tube out of any splash. Optimizing the length makes no sense to me. As stated above, in through the mouth, out though the nose. With the Quick Air, there is no way to purge the tube with a burst of air like you would with a snorkle. Using the Quick Air, you can either inhale it, drink it, or hold it out of the water to drain it, then keep the open end out of the water as you put it in your mouth. 

I am familiar with the Quick Air device, I am the engineer who designed the valve in question. But at the time, it was SPECIFICALLY designed for the Rapid Air device, which I think is a great product. I have no affiliation really to that company, all the work I did was done for free because I thought it was a good product. I didn't even ask for a sample/prototype. Jeff, a great guy and small business owner who I randomly met at Waterton one day and loaned my PFD to, needed a valve designed (my specialty at the time), so I volunteered. So being the engineer behind it, I've got a pretty good idea how it should be used. A tube is better. After this recent scare, and recently finding the valve used on Quick Air, I got concerned because I'd hate to see a product that I'm loosly associated with give a false sense of security or possibly cause more harm than without.


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## ToddG (Nov 29, 2003)

I'll work on getting everyone's availabilities for a get-together. I'm assuming Ft. Collins would be the best place. 

As for the EMT question ... I have absolutely no idea what the EMTs looked like or even how many there were. I had a very narrow focus during those moments.


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## Gary E (Oct 27, 2003)

Livingston,what the hell are you talking about"false sense of security"?Have you ever tried quick air?Probably not as you would not be posting the trash you are posting...My first time using quick air was in a pool and I stayed down for 6 minutes no problem,you could stay there until hypothermia sets in with the product...A hose has been tried by all of us and that my friend is a false sense of security...So you can purge the hose,think about everything you need to do too breathe through it---oh yeah and then deal with the stress of your bones breaking,being trapped whatever the pin your in,deals to you...Then where do you put the hose?Let me guess in your boat or are you holding it above water where minimal water will enter the hose..If your holding it above water I'll take the easy way to breathe everytime"quick air"...If your gonna have it in your boat,well then you better be the greatest purger in history when your skirt emplodes or you pull to try to get out...Most pins your head is 6 to 12inches below the surface and your mind set is not on anything but trying to breathe not remember how to do it right with a hose...

I carry quick air as do my friends and that product is well worth every penny you spend...It has a cap on it so you don't have to purge before you use it and I personally would take a swallow of water to breathe through quick air...It's easy and thoughtless,just what I want when I have eqaully important shit on my mind...When I take quick air to the east or west everyone tries to steal the thing...So you don't like the product Livingston,then use your hose,hopefully you never will need to know which is better,but don't come on here and spew about a product that would work in the above situation everytime...Sorry about the rant but for some guy to come on here and run his mouth about a great product that does work,pisses me off..

Be safe and paddle where you can breathe
Gary


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## LizaS (Apr 16, 2005)

I also wanted to throw in more thanks to all involved in the rescue. Im new to Denver and I havent been paddling much out here because I know all too well how important the entire group is to running a river. Although you may know the extent of your abilities, stuff happens. 8 years ago, when I was 16 I found myself in a similar situation. The rest of the group had hiked out to watch 3 of us run the rapid. I was lucky enough to be able to get a couple of breaths but couldnt get unpinned. One of the other girls got out of her boat and onto the rock and she was able to pull me out. 8 years later she is still my closest friend even though were lucky if we see each other once a year. You all did an amazing job and I hope you will someday understand the extent of what you did for Ryan. Sorry if that was cheesyLiza


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## Jones (Apr 5, 2005)

Not trying to add to a feud, but I read Livingston's post a bit different than you Gary. I read it as the hose with the valve attached is not as good as a plain hose. I don't think he was talking about the device that holds air. 

"Using the Quick Air, you can either inhale it, drink it, or hold it out of the water to drain it, then keep the open end out of the water as you put it in your mouth. "

This to me is talking about the hose that you can't purge when the valve is on it. With the self contained device you don't need to purge because water will not get into the hose. 

Livingston, I hope I'm not making to many assumptions as to what you were trying to say. 

In my opinion the self contained quick air device is the best bet, but if you don't have that, can't afford it a plain hose is better than the one with the valve attached to it.

ryan


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## Andy H. (Oct 13, 2003)

Simplicity is a good thing.

It seems to me that up to the point when you take that big last gulp, you should have enough air in your lungs to blow the water out of a 2-foot long piece of 1/2" ID hose. Or you could hold it above the water and sling it around a few times, then cap the end with your thumb before submerging it - and without a valve on one end it won't matter which end you've grabbed. 

The hose off a raft pump would work or you could throw down $2 for a piece of rubber radiator hose at the auto parts store (which could have another use if you caught a take-out bandit in action... :?). Whichever, you'd want something stiff enough that it wouldn't collapse when your out-of-breath lungs start sucking in precious air.

I hope I never need one...

-A


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## Gary E (Oct 27, 2003)

No worries Jones,something is better than nothing..If you have'nt tried the quick air then you wont understand how it works...You don't have to force air out when exhaling with the quick air..My point I was making to Livingston is,don't come on a forum where people share ideas and give good advice and say a product that definately works is a liability and "I don't want my name associated with the product"..I assume he has tried it since "he help design the mouth piece,but the way he posted I wonder if he has...Have you Liv?It is a great product that paddlers should at least try,make a decision whether it's right for them and go with their decision..

I'm with Andy and hope we never need one,yet I'm sure at one point or another in our paddling careers we all will wish we had a hose,quick air or whatever someone thinks up to get air in a bad position...I know of 2 times I would have had a little better of a day with anything that gave me options...Be safe folks and look out for your paddling partners and watch out for yourselves..
Gary


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## erdvm1 (Oct 17, 2003)

I would just ignore Livingston. I've known him for quite some time now and have noticed that he loves to make sh*t up and post it on the buzz. Nice one Livingston. Tell'em about that lens that you made for the Hubble telescope that's my favorite. :wink:


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## Livingston (Jan 8, 2004)

Well, shit. I really didn't want to litter this thread with this so I'm done after this. Again appologies, hope someone gets something helpfull out of this.

To clear up any missunderstandings, the pressurized air device that is essensially a miniature scuba tank is called Rapid Air, the tube with a valve on the end is called Quick Air.

http://rapidair.net/

I gave Jeff of Rapid Products some engineering advice and drawings on the mouthpiece valve, specifically the exhaust part of the double check valve. I did this for purely altruistic reasons, the same reason I posted the previous replies on this thread. If I charged for it, it may have costed more, and that might have prevented a sale of a product I thought could save a life. I only mentioned my affiliation with the product to show credibility, that I wasn't just some yahoo.

In Ryan's situation, as I interpret it, I would actually prefer someone to have handed me a Quick Air rather than a tube. With a rescuer handing the device to victim, and maintaining control of the open end, the Quick Air is superior to a simple tube.

My concern with the Quick Air, and if you read my posts it should be evident, is that you are unable to purge the thing. If I'm pulling a Quick Air out of a pinned and swamped boat, blindly lifting it out of the water, popping the lid, and taking a quick breath, I think there is a good possibility that you could get a mouthful of water due to spray, slash, or popping the cap off too soon. It is unlikely that the water will be calm at the scene of a pin. If I've got a lung full of air, and I exchange that for a tube full of water, now I'm choking and that much closer to unconsiousness. This scenario is where I see the product "causing more harm than without." 

So it is my OPINION that not knowing how the pin is going to occur or who is in control of the breating tube (rescuer or victim), the simple tube is the better choice if I was going to carry just one.

Jones, you are right on with your interpretation.

Gary E, I guess my response to you is the same, "what the hell are you talking about?" Your posts seem to be talking about both the Rapid Air and the Quick Air at the same time, therefore making no real sense. If you meant Rapid Air in your first reply, we agree, you just missunderstood and should probably read a little closer (or write a little more legibly). But to say I shouldn't come onto this forum with my comments where people share ideas is contradictory. I'm simply advising this community of a possible danger. And to answer your question, no, I've only used the Quick and Rapid Air on land, not submerged. But getting all aggro at me is just a bit uncalled for. Please try to contain yourself. If you still dissagree, fine, at least you are aware now of the purging issue.


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## adrock (Apr 28, 2004)

*tubers*

indeed, lets try to keep a thread like this clean. No ego trips. No rants. Be tactful with your opinions. If this is your only outlet to talk to people about paddling, you need to go paddling more or get a life for that matter.

In the case of Ryan's rescue, none of the above metioned shit would have worked as he was pinned in deep (I would venture 5-6 feet) very fast flowing water, in the middle of the river. At the point I got to him he was completely panicked and would not have dealt with me putting something in his mouth if I could have even got something to his mouth in the totally precarious position I was in. Still in my boat, doing everything I could just to try to get close to him. Trying to get a tube out of my boat might have been a waste of precious time. 

In certain situations a tube or air device might be useful. I think it is great for us all to go out and do some research on our own on tubes and air devices, that probably would have been enough said on that topic.


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## gh (Oct 13, 2003)

Well if ya follow Gary E's logic then the pinned individual would have had a breathing device on him and would have been able to breathe for a while. I think the rapid air idea is worth checking out. I want to be careful about 2nd guessing what went on that day but if I understand Gary correctly then each member would have the rapid air in their pfd where it would be readily available.


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## adrock (Apr 28, 2004)

*rapid air*

I see your point, even though it sounds like somewhat of a marketing pitch and an impossibility. (that everyone would purchase one, and have it in their jacket).

Just to clarify. There was no chance for anyone else to give Ryan a rapid air, due to the circumstance of the pin.

$349 for a rapid air. kayakoutfitting.com. 

If Ryan had one of these in his jacket, there is a chance he could have used it, even though from my experience that day he seemed panicked beyond using any logic.

Has anyone out there actually used one (rapid air) in a real rescue situation?

Backing up, I think the first steps would have been more experience, some SR training, better boat, better jacket. Situation may have been averted.


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## esp (Jun 13, 2004)

Drop the rapid air/ quick air bullshit...

Did you buy every single piece of gear that existed when you were just learning?

If you want to talk off topic than take it elsewhere. 

Otherwise dont add to the emotional stress these great individuals are already dealing with, by throwing more well if you had this... than you would have avoided that bs at them. People die every day when seatbelts and air bags work.

If you were not there, shut the f*%! up.


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## shmoab (Apr 22, 2005)

Do these kind of events happen often or is this a once in a boaters lifetime thing?


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## adrock (Apr 28, 2004)

*depends*

responding to the question above:

This was my third/fourth encounter of this sort in paddling for 9 years and guiding for about 10 off and on. So I guess it just depends on how much you paddle and what you paddle. I think the more you run harder water, and the more days you spend on the river, the more you will encounter these situations. It is part of the sport. I think most of us have come to grips with that. The trick is being prepared for it by setting proper safety and getting rescue training (formal or informal).

This was definitely the most intense and lethal situation I have encountered in those ten years. I hope to go at least 10 more before dealing with it again.


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## ned (May 11, 2004)

I was one of the first boaters on scene. I am sorry it has taken me so long to tell my story, i guess I am still trying to figure it out. I was directly behind ryan when he was pinned, ryan rolled upside down right before the rock, he floated upside down into the rock in the worste spot possible. (I am still not sure if I actually saw this, however I have these visions in my head). The rock ryan floated into had a v like point, the boat was pinned on the left and his body was pined on the right, this imeadiately I knew this was serious. I ask myself if I was in that situation could I have gotten out of my boat, my answer at this point is no, his knees and body were on different sides of the rock, the tip of the v was in his waste. So far the posted details of the rescue are acurate to my knowledge. This event was scary as shit and extremely emotional. Ryan was able to keep his head out of the water for a limited time, we watched him strugle, I think he over exerted himself and passed out, at this point he was completely submerged. The scariest thought to me is what would we have done, without the bridge and the road. Things worked out extremely well, the situation could have been allot worse. I think we all did an amazing job. I was extremely adament about taking putting ryan in truck and heading towards the fort. was this the right thing to do??? my logic was (the sooner he gets oxygen the better his chances are). 
whitnessing this event was by far the most scary moment of my life, the dark feeling I had was undescribable and I wouln't wish if upon my worste enemy. My thoughts are still scattered. 
I will try my best to get together with you guys in the fort. 
ned


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## esp (Jun 13, 2004)

Ned,

I wouldnt second guess the decesion to go ahead and head towards town. Half, or more, of the guys in my department talk about how they are not waiting for the ambulance if the s*#t hits the fan. I am not dissing on ambulance services or any EMS personell. The rational is--I live and recreate in a rural area, so volunteeres are coming from home, to respond to their station, and then get on the road w/ the ambulance and/or fire truck and travel 5-40 miles, or more or less, that time adds up in a hurry. The intercept worked well for you all. That happens a lot around here. 

I am in no way advocating not calling for the ambulance or fire. You should always call for help when needed. When you get into rural/wilderness environments you just have to make discisions a bit differently, and that is why wilderness first aid does some things differently than traditional front country ems. You definatly made the right call on that one.


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## rasdoggy (Jan 31, 2005)

Sounds to me like everyone did what they sould have done, By transporting to the EMS you saved valuable time for him, I would have tried to do the same and have involving a couple of Scuba incedents, a training site was several (30+) miles from a main road and it was requested by the EMS to meet them.

About the air tank idea, It MIGHT work it MIGHT not the biggest problem with back up air systems is that the rescue could be delayed (he has some air) and that the person over breaths and drains it faster than you would think. We used a system Called a Spare Air and the air goes real fast during panic breathing.

That is my pennies... 

I would want to have you guys there for me....


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## adrock (Apr 28, 2004)

*get em down*

Ned, getting him going down canyon was a great call. 
I would say to anyone, we as a group were slightly torn about whether to keep him stabilized and wait the estimated 15-20 minutes for ambulance.

For one, he may have died if we waited. Two, who knows when exactly the ambulance would have showed up. I know initially I asked the MD in our group "do we keep him here, stabilized" We came to a consenscus: get him down the canyon, Kudos to little brother Cisco on that too for chiming in with "get him in the hands of professionals as soon as possible". 

So.... Get that person to med pros asap. As long as it doesnt put anyone in further danger. We also had a lead car dedicated to flagging the passing ambulance, great call. Nice drivin Todd G.


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## tboner (Oct 13, 2003)

hey.. we need to get the crew back together sooner than later. i'm tired of loosing sleep over this. and if the boys from Minnissota (Zachman and the blond dude) are reading this let us know so you can be invloved too. i'm sure it's eating you guys up and that's no way to spend a road trip. 

i'm available tonight (was planning on running the Source but this is on top the priority list) or any night next week.

Matt- I lost your number, PM me with your cell.
-trev


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## bigboater (Dec 10, 2003)

I second the motion to do this now. I will be leaving for a week to Durango area and I would like to do this before we go and before my memory becomes even foggier. I was planning on running Eldo but this is more important. Tonight would be good for me, Friday less so as we would like to be on the road. I would like to do this even if we can only get the Denver/Boulder guys together, worst case scenario. Ned, can you tear your self away from Summit? You made the right call brotha. I think all critical decisions were made correctly despite any arguing that might have taken place; the fact that Ryan is alive is a reflection of that. My email is [email protected]. My cell is 303-669-4543.
Matt


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## alan (Jul 11, 2004)

Like Ted, I apologize for not posting sooner, but I have had limited computer access this week. I am the MD in the eddy below, mentioned in Todd's original post.
I was just downsteam when the accident happened. We saw a bunch of throw ropes fly, and waited to see if everything was OK. About 2-3 minutes after we saw the throw ropes, we saw people doing CPR. We got my boat and ran upstream. I ferried across the river to assist with resucitation. I got there roughly 5-7 minutes after Ryan was pinned (I think). His face and neck were dark purple, and he was breathing once every 10 to 12 seconds. I couldn't feel a pulse in his neck, but after we cut away his drytop I could feel pulse of about 60 beats per minute in his wrist. In effort to get as much oxygen to his brain as possible, I continued intermittent rescue breathing for another 5 to 10 minutes. I think it is important to point out, although he was breathing, additional mouth to mouth was necessary. 5 or 6 breaths per minute isn't sufficent for a post drowning victim. As his color started to slightly improve, we started trying to figure out how to get him across the river. Fortunately, as already stated, Mike had flagged down the tool truck, so we didn't have to carry or ferry him across. By the time we got him across, his breathing rate was better, and his color continued to improve. By the time we got him to EMS he was starting to regain a little bit of consciousness. It seemed to me, the first EMS didn't have oxygen with them, but the second truck arrived about 2 minutes later. 
One thing I will do differently. I am going to buy a plastic face mask to carry with me at all times. This is my second experience with nonhospital CPR (first was not boating related). I have been meaning to get one for years. I'll post how to get one of these in the future. The masks are supposed to get a little better seal. More importantly, the respirations are blown into a small tube, instead of the persons mouth. It should to be easier also, so with a limited number of resuers, it will be less tiring.
I think carrying one of these could prove much more useful than any kind canned air etc. 
I would like say extend congratulations to everyone involved. I don't think a rescue could go much more smoothly or efficently.


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## El Flaco (Nov 5, 2003)

Here's a link to a site that sells Laerdal Pocket Masks ($10), as well as tons of other medical supplies. A pair of EMT shears is $3, and they can cut through anything (including skirts, drytops, even pennies) without a risk of cutting the victim. 

www.initialresponse.com


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## rasdoggy (Jan 31, 2005)

Here is a link for the pocket mask so you can see what it looks like.
If you choose to get one get it with the o2 fitting a few pennies more but worth it if needed.

You can get them at any Scuba shop, shop local help support local businesses.

http://www.nitro-pak.com/product_info.php/products_id/1200


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## Tim Kelley (Nov 20, 2003)

I'm certainly glad to hear Ryan is recovering, and my hats off to the teamwork that saved him. This is a great thread...all of it! Members of the rescue team being open and talking about how they could have improved on the great work they did...I look forward to Ryan's comments and what he can share that might help others.

Talking about how a "quick air" or a simple hose might have helped in this situation is also important. Just talking about the options and limitations are extremely valuable.

My disclaimer, I'm not on team Rapid Air. My comments on "quick air" are based completely on my experience with the product. I've been playing around with a "Quick Air" for about 8 months. 

No doubt Quick Air has limitations, just as Livingston describes; you cannot purge the the hose of water by blowing out. But you realize the limitations and learn the work arounds easily with just a little practice.

Gary E. is correct that you can purge a tube full of water by sucking it through the mouth piece and blowing it out the valve or just spitting it out (easier). It might actually be easier than purging a similar length of hose because once the water is out of the QA hose you are breathing good air instead of your exhaled breath that purged the water. I've done this also at the point of being almost completely out of breath...it is much tougher, but doable. 

The fact that you can take your mouth off the QA valve and the hose doesn't fill up is invaluable. The thumb trick doesn't work very well on a simple hose so you usually end up having to purge. QA allows you to move to work yourself free and come back and get a breath when you need it. 

I've also practiced breathing through it taking on some surface splashing through the tub. I would get about half a mouthful of water but had no pbm getting a full breath. It was like taking sips of air when your "working" a mystery move. When doing this partner assisted you can pretty much eliminate " accidental water" by the person assisting simply cupping their hands around the top of the hose. 

The short coming I think that limits quick airs affectiveness is the length of hose. Limiting the lenght by the max depth one can use this at is not seeing other possible scenarios. Scanerios such as being trapped by a strainer or undercut where horizontal distance and not depth prevents the end of the hose from reaching the surface. 

So how much more length should be added? A good rubber coupling could allow for an "extension hose" of say...six feet. Not sure if much more than that could be fished under something.

Quick Air is definatley worth the money as it is in my opinion, but nothing is as valuable as good decision making and a strong group. Again my hats off to the rescue team, great work. 

Tim Kelley
AW Safety Chair


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## gapers (Feb 14, 2004)

They sell the pocketmask at Jax for 25$


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