# Shoshone Run + Carnage



## liquidchaos (Jul 11, 2005)

Hilarious; I loved it when the boat landed right on the poor girl in tombstone, ouch... but seriously they couldnt clean it up a little quicker, it looks like guide training. I had soo much fun the other day just wrecking, pretty friendly holes and easy swims. Some of the best 8 second raft rides I'v had in a while.


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## basil (Nov 20, 2005)

Cool vid. Need to watch it in high def mode.


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## blurredelevens (Jun 23, 2005)

Kinda sketchy seeing the girl in that hole in tombstone just chillin' there.


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## WhiteLightning (Apr 21, 2004)

The thing that scared me the most was the 50ft of anchor rope on the floor of the non-flipped boat...

It's hard to see in the vid, but it is running pretty fun at those levels (4500ish). The river left lateral in Man Eater is really big now. Beginners beware :evil:

I guess everyone held on to the flipped raft for way too long. That is a respectable swim from twin holes (it looked like for the flip) all the way to near Grizzly Creek before everyone was out of the water if I understand correctly. Note to self: bring own boat when rafting with Crazy Dave.


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## WhiteLightning (Apr 21, 2004)

Doug, did you take the new guys out for their first Shosho training trips? I can imagine some nice 8 second sessions with them at the wheel, especially if you guys went for the extra fun in the 13 footers.


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## possumturd (Jul 13, 2006)

*shoshone*

I ran that on Sunday as well.

What is the name of the second to last section: had a big breaking wave just after the start and right in the middle of the river.


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## WhiteLightning (Apr 21, 2004)

Probably Tombstone. In the video, that's where the two swimmers are getting kind of surfed.


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## ENDOMADNESS (Jun 21, 2005)

that is a nice sized swim for them folks that stayed with the raft. Guy captaining the upright boat kept wanting to break (eddy pullout and trying to pick up folks on the bank)...he was pretty tired. Guy videoing was on it....

great video.


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## h2obro (Apr 22, 2004)

*sometimes ya gotta take the rookie out*

That rookie was on the sticks far too long. Experiential Ed is good except when people are in the water. Seconds count and explaining why that is in an eddy is not an option. Save the lessons for the takeout and get those swimmers!


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## h2obro (Apr 22, 2004)

*good video though.*

what kind of device was that captured on?


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## jbarnow (Sep 10, 2007)

I believe helmet cam.


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## carvedog (May 11, 2005)

h2obro said:


> That rookie was on the sticks far too long. Experiential Ed is good except when people are in the water. Seconds count and explaining why that is in an eddy is not an option. Save the lessons for the takeout and get those swimmers!


+1 on that. Understand that it looked like no blood, no foul, but once that boat was over, lets catch another gear and get the fuck down the river.

Eddy out for an oar? I mean if it was my oar then that would be ok, cuz I am such a great swimmer and all. But I would either be stuck to the bottom of the raft like a lion on a wildebeest or out of the river by then. 

Does the river have a concrete bank there the whole way? Any cars ever land on anyone? The bike path made it easy for those smart enough to get out to trot on down hill.


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## h2obro (Apr 22, 2004)

*I mean which brand*

Was it a "go pro"? Just trying to see what kind of footage they produce.


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## Mut (Dec 2, 2004)

Good entertainment. The finger pointing to the side is great. I'm sure the swimmers were looking right at the hand.

Did the upright boat EVER help the flipped raft? In a couple of the shots, the oarman on the second raft was not ever rowing. That cleanup should have been way faster. Glad no one was hurt.


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## WhiteLightning (Apr 21, 2004)

So my friend, the guy videoing and talking actually isn't even a boater, but he's a former ski patroller and dive master and has pretty good sense. He was riding along with the guy who was rowing his own raft, he was kind of a friend of a friend. The guy on the oars seemed a little rookieish to me too, but at least he didn't do the classic post-carnage flip while forgetting to keep his own boat upright. I'll ask him what kind of camera he was using, I thiiiink it was his regular digital still camera in video mode, but it did seem like a helmet cam.

Ideally, they would have tried to run their formation tighter, could have bagged a couple of swimmers, or whatever. My friend with the camera did end up getting to the other boat and no one was seriously injured it sounds like. 

The guy in the front boat, Crazy Dave, has some grand trips, and lots of years of boating under his belt. I think a lot of his experience might be blue-side-down though  and there's a reason he is "Crazy Dave"!


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## GPP33 (May 22, 2004)

That news paper up in Eagle might be interested in this.........

Nice footage, long swims though.


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## h2obro (Apr 22, 2004)

*Dont hand that shit to the media!!!*

The media has had a field day this summer with all the rio carnage. Tons of negative footage will only throw fuel on the bad press fire and the media will blow it way out of proportion. I can see it now ," I'm Ron Burgundy and tonight we take you live to the river of death that has yet again struck claiming the life of a Colorado touron. .Bla Bla Bla" This is not the press we need right now. Earlier this summer some idiot photographer from Zoom Flume on the Ark was saying in an Denver news interview how just about 3 of 5 rafts through either flipped or had some sort of issue. I believe he also said "Alot of broken noses". What a jackass. Talk about shitting where you eat.
Somehow the press fails to mention that the victim probably did little to save themselves during the swim or that they had a pre existing med condition and had no business being in the situation in the first place. The neg press is bad for all of us. especially the commercial side of whitewater. Besides, lets keep all the good carn footy for ourselves, those idiots cant really appreciate it.


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## WhiteLightning (Apr 21, 2004)

Agreed.


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## GPP33 (May 22, 2004)

Dude, joke. I assume you saw the article about how a couple rafts flipped on the Eagle and everyone got out ok? As if it was news worthy? 

I’m not sure I agree with your comments though. Who give a s*^t if people think our sport is dangerous? Who cares if some photographer told the news what they saw? Some people will get excited to go try it, others will get scared. End of the day no one really notices. It’s not like we have people successfully shutting us down left and right for being too dangerous so who cares what they think? I also don’t agree that it’s bad press. A rig off trail is bad press for the 4 wheeling community, a raft flipped in rapids is expected, and provided no one got hurt and no serious lose of personal property occurred it’s damn funny.


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## knappco (Aug 4, 2006)

that guy on the oars needs to chase down swimmers, that means push down stream not row up.


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## randomnature (Jun 10, 2007)

*bad press = no beer for guides*

The problem with bad press is that people read the paper and if they see a blow out of proportion article about the dangers of the river, they may think twice about getting in a boat. While this may be good for some (bubba vs. Gore), there are plenty of trips out there that are family friendly and safe. In the end, there are a number of people who try to make a living doing it and with a short season, they need all the help they can get. 

Imagine if guides had to live in their cars, eat leftover customer food, and drink cheap domestic beer in cans...


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## h2obro (Apr 22, 2004)

*I'm down about 35% for the summer*

Both trips and tips. Ya cant tell me the economy is completely to blame. Everytime there has been some news about the rio it has been completely blown out of proportion. Look at the Eagle incident you mentioned before. I saw the headlines. Somthing like 19 swimmers in 5 rafts flips on the eagle or somthing like that. And like was said earlier and you pointed out. NOT NEWS WORTHY. Exactly! Still.... they ran with the story on the front page complete with pictures. Most of us know there was no real news to the story. I person went to the hosp for observation. This is a joke story to us but not to those that have come to town to spend tourist $$$. "Well honey, There killing people on the river again,.....Lets go to Pikes peak instead". 
How many multiple stories have you seen on the dangers of 4x4 during the height of 4x4 season. come on dude. Its not the same. 
As for getting shut down. Some of the smaller companies may be struggeling to keep their heads above water and bad press just might be the straw that breaks the camels back
I agree with you here. It is fun to flip and it is to be expected as a part of rafting. I guess thats part of the point. We, as whitewater folks know that it mostly all good when rafts flip, but when not rio people see this stuff, needlessly over and over again, it scares the shit out of them and the only benifit is in the ratings for news 9 Denver, not the river community.
alose


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## GPP33 (May 22, 2004)

I guess the way I see it is river running takes a certain kind of mind set. If the thought of flipping scares you away then maybe you shouldn't have been there in the first place. When I take newbs out I can tell if they will stick with it or not after their first roll. They either come up with a big ass shit eating grin or scared as hell, like I said it's a certain mind set. People always ask me if I get scared going into big rapids. Hell no, you get scared and you'll get the crap kicked out of you, that's the time to start digging in. 


Let's look at a few incidents on the ark this year, multiple heart attacks and a 4 year old swimming. people that shouldn't be on those stretches of river in the first place. 


Would you rather have no one to take down or a death on your boat. you decide.......


The 4x4 comment was in regards to shutting it down, not loss of business, I didn't see it from that side in my first posts.


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