# Rafts, rafts, and rafts... (fishing)



## Hypobaricstalker (Jan 4, 2012)

I found mountain buzz after doing some research for my first "fishing boat" aka raft. I've been looking at Streamtech which uses some Maravia rafts, NRS frames in
Which we can use different rafts and down river frames as well.

With a raft holding 700-800lbs (2 anglers, oarsman, frames and gear) what rafts would you suggest for maneuverability and won't blow around vs other rafts.

I understand they're rafts and will blow around, and the maneuverability thing, but some should have advantages over others, right?


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## BCJ (Mar 3, 2008)

There's a good deal on a use Avon Pioneer self-bailer with frame and oars, etc. on West Slope Craigslist. The boat is about a 13' I think. The frame is not really a fishing frame, but you can change that. Good used Avons are hard to come by. This one has the old Avon-gray original fabric too. Wish I could afford to put it in my fleet.


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## Hypobaricstalker (Jan 4, 2012)

Does Avon still make quality rafts?


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## BCJ (Mar 3, 2008)

Well, I don't like to dis' anybody's gear, and there are a lot of good boats out there, so here's what I know/think from my own experience: I started running rivers in the late 70's. At the time, Avon was the best out there. Campways came along with some pretty good rubber, but Avon still had that double-sided hypalon that no-one else had, and it was durable. (Still is). Along came maravia. As it progressed, I think Maravia makes good boats. Then came Sotar. Again, solid boats. Maravia and Sotar are, however, a different kind of fabric, more PVC or similar, whereas Avon, Achilles and Hyside all continued with hypalon. NRS, by the way, uses hypalon (or it's equivalent, since DuPont stopped making it a few years back), so that may say something. Hyside came along with a double-sided hypalon boat too, and those are holding up really, really well. Sometime in the mid-80's, Avon did lighten it's fabric, i.e., it went from a roughly 9 mil thick double-sided hypalon to a 7 mil, built the same way. Still seemed to hold up very nicely. In the mid-90's, Avon continued with that same fabric, but changed the color to a lighter gray. Sometime between then and now, Avon, apparently, has gone to a different fabric, that is still perhaps calendered hypalon on the exterior, but neoprene on the interior. The key to this is knowing whether the fabric is calendered (pressed between rollers at high pressure) or laminated. The laminated variety of boats (Campways, which became Riken, and Achilles, although I would say Achilles are among the best of the best, calendered or not) had more of a tendancy to de-laminate over time, as well as, depending on the specs, become porous over time. This is not true of all, but of some. Avon, on the other hand, still do not seem to accumulate any of these problems, in my experience. I currently own a 1993 model year Avon, and it is solid as a rock, despite being almost 20 years old. I have not seen that many other brands around that last that long. It is quite hard to dispute that fact. BUT, I have not seen the later model year Avon's in service for that long either, so I don't know if the new Avon fabric will have the same longevity. I suspect, however, that you will still find Avon to be one of the longest lasting, best made inflatables out there. (PS I forgot to mention AIRE. Some friends I know have them, especially the catarafts, and they are quite durable. My problem with the AIRE rafts is, to me, they're flippy. I don't like the hull shape.)

More recently I've heard good things about Rocky Mountain Rafts, which are PVC.

I'm a brand-loyal person (been driving Volvo's about as long as rowing Avon's, 32+ years) so all this is just my experience and I could be wrong on any number of points. 

But you can't go wrong with an Avon. And if I had the bucks and needed a small fishing boat, I'd grab that Pioneer on Craiglist. It's the old Avon fabric (proven for nearly 30 years) and looks pristine.


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## riverrunr77 (Aug 17, 2011)

The whole streamtech thing is odd to me as to why people would buy these. Maravia makes the raft,Cambridge welding makes the frames . Essentialy you are paying the middle man who doesn't build squat. I find it hard for these guys to brag about something that they don't even make. Part of the pride of calling it your boat brand would be building it. This guy writes a check to everyone slaps it together with minimal mechanical skills and takes someones money. Couldn't we all just order our own raft and slap a frame on it???  Just my thoughts on streamtech


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## BCJ (Mar 3, 2008)

Though I'm an Avon fan (no kidding?), for fishing, the Maravia or Sotar boats, with that flat drop-stitch floor, may be the better bet. Avon has a ribbed floor. My uses are largely big whitewater. Actually, a real drift-boat may even be better. We picked up a used Smokercraft 14' a couple years ago and it's been a great boat. My buddies row it. Lots of opinions and things to learn. Buena suerte.


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## BCJ (Mar 3, 2008)

I think your original question was about wind? Here's my take on that - - lighter, slicker, stiffer boats that sit higher in the water will be more manueverable, but also more susceptible to the wind. Frankly, when it blows hard I don't think it makes much difference. My dory gets blown around pretty good too when it's real windy. That said, I've heard it been said, that hypalon boats, which are generally not as stiff as PVC or the Sotar fabric, don't surf as much. Who knows. I would comment, tho, that the AIRE boats seem to sit pretty high in the water and be, for that reason, a tad flippy. If dumping headlong into a big hole, I'd rather be in the rubber than the PVC, but I like cavier too.


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## carvedog (May 11, 2005)

I love Avons, I have and love a Maravia. And have several hundred days in each. For fishing the stiffness of the floor is preferable in the Maravia. For a raft it is my favorite fishing platform. A buddy has an Aire Puma which looks to be a great fishing floor as well. Haven't run that one but it looks good. 
If you get a frame with the decked fishing floor the boat material would be less important.


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## Robpineau (Dec 21, 2009)

I do a bit of fishing as well as white water rafting. I would suggest not buying a raft, get a CATARAFT! A well built cataraft will have much less drag on the water compared to a raft which will allow you to make one more time to cast into those favorite holes. Catarafts are a much more stable platform to cast from than a Drift boat (dory). If you go with a PVC it may shave a few pounds off and may be a little bit slicker for sliding over rocks during low flow floats. You would most likely want to look into something over 14’ with 3 people If your rivers have enough flow to accommodate it. Just my two cents.


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## Hypobaricstalker (Jan 4, 2012)

Please keep the info coming guys, I'm loving it. Thanks so much.


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## carvedog (May 11, 2005)

Robpineau said:


> I do a bit of fishing as well as white water rafting. I would suggest not buying a raft, get a CATARAFT! A well built cataraft will have much less drag on the water compared to a raft which will allow you to make one more time to cast into those favorite holes. Catarafts are a much more stable platform to cast from than a Drift boat (dory). If you go with a PVC it may shave a few pounds off and may be a little bit slicker for sliding over rocks during low flow floats. You would most likely want to look into something over 14’ with 3 people If your rivers have enough flow to accommodate it. Just my two cents.


I guarantee you that a PVC raft will outperform any cataraft pound for pound in low water, sliding over rocks, low flow floating. Have you actually fished from a cat? As in standing up? and compared to fishing from a raft? either can be done. The raft wins every time for me.


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## Robpineau (Dec 21, 2009)

I have a 14' sb raft I use; I have a whitewater frame that I row from and fish of the bow and stern. I like wedging my feet in the corners and leaning my shins against the tubes to cast. 

My last trip was a 4 days on the big horn MT were we used my buddy’s cat which has a hip bar up front and a swivel seat in back with a full plywood deck. It was easy to cast and walk around. 

We also can float the cat in much less water than my raft, (ie private water with shot gun concerns) 

BTW this My buddy bought the cat after he pinned a dory (read drunken fishing debacle) a few years prior on the green river, and uses it exclusively for fishing.


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## scout1 (Jul 27, 2011)

Check out the FishCraft supercat. I put another 500 miles on mine this year and as far as fishing goes its hard to beat.


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## Whoapiglet (Aug 23, 2010)

Rafts generally draft less water than a cat due to the additional displacement/buoyancy of the floor. 

As to fishability, you were comparing fishing out of a whitewater raft to fishing out of a specially designed fishing cat. Apples and oranges. Put a fishing frame with floors and lean bars in your raft and it will fish at least as well as the cat.


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## jimr (Sep 8, 2007)

Aire Super pumas are sweet but flip easy. My opinion is go as small and light as possible. I bought the decked out DRE and let me tell ya the frames are sweet and durable but super heavy, I roll their San Juan frame stripped down now because of the weight my buddy has a nrs otter with a nrs fishing frame, super light weight, not impressed with his frame set up though.


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## dirtbagkayaker (Oct 29, 2008)

I have found that Aire boats with the drain holes in the floor really hold a line in the wind. 

I have always thought that rafts with deminishing tubes would be great for fishing but I have never actually rowed or fished from such a boat. Good Luck


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## jimr (Sep 8, 2007)

My opinion for a fishing boat is go as small and light as possible. Aire super pumas are sweet but they flip super easy. I have a DRE with the San Juan frame, personally I think their rafts are junk, frames are dope but kinda heavy with platforms. I stripped my frame down and it makes a world of a difference. Have fished and rowed a NRS otter with fishing frame super light but frame is kinda awkward. Drift boats are bomb but not practical in Colorado. If I could do it again I would roll a sotar or aire with a stripped down DRE frame. Also spending extra on oars is HUGE! Check out local dealers and go check out their setups, stand on the boats, fake cast, fake row ect see what is most comfortable for you.


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## jimr (Sep 8, 2007)

Sorry bout multiple posts iPhone has gone crazy.


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## Hypobaricstalker (Jan 4, 2012)

jimr said:


> My opinion for a fishing boat is go as small and light as possible. Aire super pumas are sweet but they flip super easy. I have a DRE with the San Juan frame, personally I think their rafts are junk, frames are dope but kinda heavy with platforms. I stripped my frame down and it makes a world of a difference. Have fished and rowed a NRS otter with fishing frame super light but frame is kinda awkward. Drift boats are bomb but not practical in Colorado. If I could do it again I would roll a sotar or aire with a stripped down DRE frame. Also spending extra on oars is HUGE! Check out local dealers and go check out their setups, stand on the boats, fake cast, fake row ect see what is most comfortable for you.


If you can go into ANY more detail about the NRS frame, that would be awesome. I've been contemplating an AIRE 146D with a San Juan Frame or the 14 Otter. Stream tech is another I have been looking at Hard. What's with the Sotars that are so good?


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## wildcat (Jun 30, 2010)

Advantages of going with NRS...
1. lighter than DRE 

2. Plenty of beefiness without the bulk. In my opinion, this is huge. When you are in a boat with a DRE frame they feel cramped due to all of the BULKY tubing. This means more space for gear, dry boxes, and for the captain's cockpit if you go with NRS. 

3. Cheaper of course....but still also offers all of the bells and whistles if you wish to add them.


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## Alectoris (May 19, 2011)

I have an Aire Super-duper puma with the fishing frame that Aire sells under their "outcast" line. The same boat would be a Outcast PAC 1400. I absolutely love it.

On real whitewater floats we don't use the fishing frame as it is too heavy, but it is great to fish out of on more casual floats. I second the comment about Aire wet floors and the wind. You will consistently outpace standard floors when fighting the wind and I have run some big stuff w/o flipping. On the other hand, w/o a headwind or if being pushed by a tailwind other rafts will pass you by. It also makes the boat a little heavier to load on a trailer.

I also second the comment that cats kind of suck to fish out of. If for no other reason than the fact that everything you drop is liable to wind up in the drink and that they draft deeper when loaded up and turn into a pig with a fat boy standing up front.

The Maravias with the Streamtech frame are nice. A little lighter than my boat. I fished out of a Spider with that frame the other day. It was solid. The textured coat they put on the Maravias is great this time of year when the raft is iced up solid.


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## jimr (Sep 8, 2007)

Personally I just don't like nrs frames, yes they are way lighter but their set ups just don't do it for me.(totally personal). I also disagree that DRE waste space but thats me. My buddy has a 16' cat with nrs frame which tends to flex if you are hauling a ton of gear. Sotar is bomber they are from Mercia and they do everything to your spec, super taxed though. I would roll an aire or otter if on a medium budget. Get some good oars bro


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## watermonkey (Aug 11, 2009)

Vanguard raft and NRS fishing frame. The Vanguards are bomber, floors so stiff you don't need the casting platforms, draft next to nothing and row really well. I don't like the front fishing seat on any raft so I have a recretec table across the front to sit on - makes a nice place for a coozie, fly patch, or a place to stretch out or get down out of the wind. Thigh bar is necessary in the front. Also, when I'm solo fishing from the boat, I can anchor and stand on the front table and cast a mile. Anchor systems from DRE or AAA are crazy expensive - NRS systems are cheap (relatively speaking) to add onto their complete fishing frame. If you're guiding for a living, I've heard more than one guide say that tips are better when clients spend the day in a drift boat than a raft, regardless of how good the fishing is.


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## pbowman (Feb 24, 2004)

*my 2c on NRS frames/packages*

i have an older 11.5' NRS otter that i fish from with the basic NRS fishing frame (only one person fishing in front). i also have a 15' NRS otter with the full NRS fishing frame (two people fishing, one elevated seat in front and one seat on the stern). 

i chose the NRS frames so that i could have maximum flexibility for different uses. i also row both boats for whitewater and overnight trips, so i can easily take the fishing seats off to rig the frame with a cooler, dry box, seat board, etc. the ability to reconfigure other frames such as DRE and AAA is both limited and cumbersome IMO, and the outcast frames cannot be modified at all. i have acquired a few extra cross bars for my frames, so i can just take the fishing seats off and put the straight cross bars in for whitewater with a cooler of beer. or i can leave the front seat on the big raft, and create some gear bays in the middle and stern of the boat to be rigged for a multi-day fishing trip.

my neighbor also has the 14' NRS Otter fishing package (included raft, frame, oars, lean bars, casting floors, etc) that he purchased in 2010, so i have fished on that several times. i don't find the casting floors and lean bars to be of much use for the type of water i like to fish in colorado, but that is admittedly my personal choice. if i were fishing slower water with very few rapids (like sections A/B/C of the green for example) more regularly, a casting floor may have more appeal to me. one thing to note here is that my neighbor sold a 16' cat with a NRS fishing frame set up (only one fishing seat up front) to buy his 14' raft package. he said he wanted the additional flexibility the raft would offer and he felt safer taking his kids in the raft instead of the cat.

if i were to only have one raft for fishing, i would choose a 13'. i think a 13' raft is large enough to comfortably fish with two people (one in front and one in back), but still agile and small enough to take out when the water gets a little low. my 11.5' raft is packed full for a day trip with just one person fishing, and it would be very tight (basically impossible) to put a stern seat on that set up. having fished and rowed my neighbors 14', i find it a little too big when the water starts getting low. it is also difficult to move around and get on the trailer if there are only two of us. 

given all of this, a 13' raft would be an ideal size for fishing colorado IMO. if i could only have one, i would choose the 13' NRS fishing package and get a couple extra cross bars to give me the flexibility to rig for whitewater and booze cruises. i would also get the NRS anchor system added to the package, it is a great addition for the money. this is all based on my personal preferences, experiences, and the water i like to fish, so i certainly respect the opinions and preferences that other folks have expressed here. the bottom line is that whatever craft and frame you choose you will be able to enjoy some great fishing.


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## riverrunr77 (Aug 17, 2011)

I have always used cats for fishing. No one out here really uses rafts at all. It's all drift boats or cats. In fact I have never seen a raft on any of the rivers I fish while I have been out.
I do know when it gets low the cats are very easy to get off of rocks or a gravel bar.
Of course Idaho guys have different ideas then us out here . You will never really see an erector set NRS frame on the water either. We can weld out this way:razz:


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## spider (Jun 20, 2011)

I have Maravia spider w stream tech logo on it but I have a NRs frame that I can run a fishing set up or remove a few parts and add a flat bar up front for white water and overnighters. I have done browns the gorge and numbers in my little boat with no problems. It has packed me and my buddy on a four day beer cruise down the tounge river with ease. I think there's a pic in my gallery of it loaded up. Maravia has great costumer service as well. I am going to get a bigger Maravia this year and weld m own frame.


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## Brotorboat (Apr 14, 2009)

riverrunr77 said:


> You will never really see an erector set NRS frame on the water either. We can weld out this way:razz:


That's good fun right there...

I really don't understand Wildcat's POV. Other than the fact that he really likes NRS frames. How does going from 1 5/8" - 1 7/8" pipe equate to "big and bulky" or "cramped". 

Getting back to the original questions...

I have to STRONGLY agree with riverrunr77 about Streamtech. I think it's sad that some guy with money came along and wrote up a deal with some folks to be the middle man. That company isn't doing a god damn thing besides stenciling their name on a Maravia boat and providing a really sweet website. They even targeted Facebook for a good bit...

So, if you want a Maravia, contact your LOCAL dealer. But, you should know that Maravias tend to be blown around a LOT. The only boat that has any advantage in the wind would be the (Standard Floor) AIRE. Which takes on a number of gallons of water and provides a ballast.

And as for the question raised earlier...Maravias are Urethane coated PVC. Sotar is a urethane fabric. AIRE also has introduced a Urethane fabric.

BOOM


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## Brotorboat (Apr 14, 2009)

**Mistake

Sotars are apparently either nylon or polyester and are coated with urethane.

It was discussed here earlier.


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