# Reality Check



## buster (Aug 21, 2004)

Hey all.
Some friends of mine were recently at the M wave checking it out when they saw these guys doing some awesome tricks and took a digital picture at which point an prominent member of team Dagger (YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE, AND SO DO WE!!!!!!!) starts yelling and screaming WHY don't you just get in you fucking *******!!!! This is completley UNacceptable as those guys work in a gear shop that sells dagger and promoted the new movie this foul mouthed kid was in. It is a horrible representation of what it is to be a pro kayaker that gets paid and sponsered to do what you love. I hope this kid reads this and feels like a supreme ass for mis representing the boating community. I have met this person before and thought he was a super nice guy but now am very disapointed.


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## gapers (Feb 14, 2004)

I'da shoved my paddle up his ass lengthwise if he said that filth to me.


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## howlie (Nov 24, 2003)

The boy you speak of is normally a nice guy, but he is very sensitive about the M wave. My guess... eventually the location and hype explode in the next few years and he and everyone else will lose access, or lines galore. This is his home turf, and you were in his backyard so he lost it. Every time I hear something bad about this kid, which is often, it is always because of the M wave. The man needs to try and show a little more respect in confrontations like this being the size he is....not to mention, he represents a company. 

Sorry for what happened man, but I bet the little Dagger homie could care less because of his history with this.


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## El Flaco (Nov 5, 2003)

"His Backyard"? Not sure how to take that, but I personally think there's no room for localism in kayaking - the only person that has the right to stake any claim to the M Wave is the landowner - not the boater in question. As a boater, it too bad that he has apparently accepted an attitude that has taken something away from surfing as an inclusionary activity. As a sponsored athlete representing a company, I'm very sure that it's not the way the folks at Watermark would like their company represented. As someone in Marketing that sponsors athletes in a different sport, I would suspect that they would not be pleased with this behavior at all. 

Outdoor companies don't make their profits from elite-level, hair boaters and play specialists. They survive from introducing new paddlers to the sport and cultivating their relationship with the average weekend boater. The pro paddlers are paid to inspire others, not to chastise someone for not jumping into a scary, fast wave in a ditch in the middle of nowhere. He needs to grow up & realize how the outdoor industry works, or he won't continue to be paid by it. Might need to memorize this line: "You want fries with that?"


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## steven (Apr 2, 2004)

access is sensitive and he does have permission from the landowner while few others do. landowner has said that when too many start too show up--it will be shut-down. i understand his feelings, and some ribbing is okay, but he shouldn't have called anyone a ******. pussy maybe. show up to surf [not hangout] and then leave. would like to have access to this spot for a long time, and it is worth educating [nicely] non-locals on how we can acheive this.


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## buster (Aug 21, 2004)

my friends that were there came to surf and they did, but they were checking out the other groups awesome tricks. They got in a played not stood on the sidelines you are mistaken. :?


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## Gary E (Oct 27, 2003)

*PUNKS*

Anybody spews that shit to me,they are gonna be eating apple sauce through a straw...I don't care if they are little,have glasses or in a wheel chair....What a bunch of punks!

Every time I hear shit like this,I'm glad I'm not part of the kayaking scene...I would have posted the punks name....

Gore was awesome this weekend,Nice work to the racers and folks running the event...To all you rafters,it would have been a little better if you folks through in a little more carnage...Just something to work on for next year....

Gary


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## steven (Apr 2, 2004)

hey buster--i meant generally show up and surf, not directed at your group. and i was being funny about the pussy part. that thing scared the crap out of me when i 1st went. i have always shared alex's frustrations with this spot, but have not agreed with his actions. steven


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## suigeneris (May 25, 2004)

*trade*

Tell me where the M wave is and I'll give up the goods on the T wave.


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## Mike Harvey (Oct 10, 2003)

When I was at the M-Wave last week I started thinking about how there is this air of inevitability with that site. Everyone always says "it will get shut down eventually". That sucks. That f-ing wave is unreal. The best in the state really. Shipley and I spent an hour with surveying equipment just trying to understand how it works. And I doubt it could ever be replicated. So why not do something to preserve it? I understand Alex's frustration. But lets channel it. What if a group of paddlers (maybe led by someone who knows the landowner, although the sign says the landowner is the feds so we should confirm that) approached the powers that be and offer to work out a solution preemptively. I can think of a bunch of things right off the bat. Offer to buy an easement that could be maintained by some organization, CWWA or AW maybe. Or work out a "management plan" that has paddlers self policing and doing volunteer work to keep the area from being destroyed. There are most likely some liability issues that need to be dealt with but I would think that we could figure those out. In fact I would be more than willing to use the Ark River Trust's 501c3 to raise money or be a clearinghouse for a save the M-wave effort. 

The reality is more and more people are getting into the sport and no one is going to be able to keep a spot secret in this dry ass state so either throw up your hands and say fuck it, or we could try to make it work long term. Any thoughts?....


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## sj (Aug 13, 2004)

Nice post Mike. it is time to put up or shut up. I for my part will just stay away not even go look. But for you people that go ther and want to go there. it's time to be proactive. you just got an offer to work wiht a curent effective WW advocacy group. Put up orshut up both sides i say this matter a factly not with malace to either side. as far as yelling and name calling by sponsered athletes. Will I use it as a deciding factor when i demo next year probably not. Will I remember when it comes time to buy you bet. peace out all sj


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## jeffro (Oct 13, 2003)

hey buster....how bout you not be a little whiny bastard??


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## steven (Apr 2, 2004)

my guess would be if we get proactive and try to help manage the site, we will be shut down very fast. i would definately be into helping whatever effort gets going, but it is in a government ditch and is very dangerous. i think the higher profile it gets, the faster it goes.


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## cosurfgod (Oct 10, 2003)

I love the M-wave. What a cool place and an awsome wave. I was there all day Sat and didn't see a sole. I would be open to doing anything that would help preserve it. The only thing I have done to help is I have never take anyone there. I thought it was Government land, is that incorrect?




PS- SSSHHH


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## jeffro (Oct 13, 2003)

I believe that it is private land. The Uncompahgre Valley Water Users Associaton owns the ditch and has an easment on the property. UVWUA is not government.


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## gh (Oct 13, 2003)

This needs to be done cause the word is leaking out. I had heard the wave mentioned here several times but no one was leaking info. While in California this spring some paddlers gave me the lowdown. The two reasons I have avoided it are that it is a long way from my house and I dont really want to deal with the whole 'its my wave' crap. My point is that I am about as far removed from being on the inside as anyone so if I know then lots of people do.


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## Mike Harvey (Oct 10, 2003)

I think the short answer is always no when you are dealing with something like this. But if it is owned by the water district then the approach would be to have someone who knows the right guy (somebody with influence who is not scared of their own shawdow) and approach them one on one at first. The reality is that they have to know the paddling is going on and are not dealing with it because they don't see it as a problem yet. Maybe there is a creative partnership that allows paddlers to use it under suitable conditions and they get some good press, tax breaks, money...I am just brainstorming someone who knows what is going on over there should speak up, I am just talking out of my skinny white ass...

Maybe no one wants to do anything I just think it would suck to have that thing get shutdown or worse...Pete Akitson was telling me last week how the boys over in GJ used to have sweet spots in ditches all over the place until they got too popular and the ditch owners went in the winter and demo'ed all of them.

Oh and if anyone is wondering if this spot is blown...I was in Montreal last week surfing Lachine and the French Canadian kid that worked at the local boat shop knew about two places in Colorado the Grand Canyon (he did not get the difference between Colorado River and Colorado) and the M-wave.


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## Jahve (Oct 31, 2003)

Mikes plan of attack is the best for keeping this spot open and it is becoming obvious that this wave will not stay like it is for long - too bad. 

As far as buster grow up and have the respect to approach a person face to face and talk out your issues  to post this way on the net is plain chicken sh**t  and so are you  to single out and attack any individual in this way it out and out wrong  handle your business with that person and let it end  buster you should change your name to rat or narc - that is what you are  grow some tougher skin and quit crying that you and all your poor, poor, friends were called a name (gasp)  or get in and throw down to the best of your abilities  that is how to earn respect  I for one will give none to anyone like you who singles out one local in a very complex issue for controversy - 

One thing to think about is that if this spot gets shut down you and I loose a day or two or four a season  the locals loose their home spot  respect this and show respect for the locals they are the ones with the most to loose  I imagine that buster et al. showed a severe lack of respect so the true keepers of the spot did what they had to do  I have been fortunate enough to session many times when locals were there and beside them throwing down on my head they were very respectful  anytime that I ran into the person you talk of has always been a great host. Also remember that Pro kayakers have to train to keep up their skills and if this pro local looses his spot then he looses his ability to train or will have to move away from his home to train - when someones lively hood or home spot is at stake I for one can see why this person acted like they did and right or wrong I respect him for it.


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## Ken C (Oct 21, 2003)

Don't forget the history. We, all users of this forum, were called out by this individual a number of years ago on this site. (In similar fasion) Don and a few others politely told him to shut up as he was at the time looking for sponsorship. He promptly put up a post which was alot less confrontational and made the point that has been rehashed here so many times since. In summary "Awesome wave, it is at risk, be respectful and keep it quiet." I have family in Montrose and want access to make my visits more fun. I'm on board for any efforts to help in that regard. To the boater in question, grow up!! It's your job when your in your gear to "be cool". I'm a hot head my nature. My mouth has gotten me into many confrontations in life. But never once have I gotten into it with someone on the river. If you want to call people out and have an attitude, do it at the Sonic with the other highschoolers. Not on the river. We all have too much to fight for to waste our time fighting each other.

If anyone needs some legal resources to help with efforts preserving access, I would be willing to offer time.

Peace,
Ken


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## thecraw (Oct 12, 2003)

Great offer Ken... 

I too am willing to help out in any way that I can. To be honest, I have never been there, but that is primarily because I don't playboat that well and I do just fine on a # of playspots on the front range.

I do however feel a need to comment on Rdnck's post. ...

Rdnck, your point is very much true and I for one respect that position on how delicate it is. Especially in a place as dry as Montrose, any play spot near there needs to be respected/protected as much as it can. That means litter, noise, bad parking, the whole kit and kaboodle (sp?).

BUT, please don't tell me that it is even slightly OK to call people *******. "Them there is fight'n words"... And especially to other boaters???This guy has had immature fits of passion regarding mwave on BUZZ in the past that the whole world was witness too. Although I was not there, it is very easily believable that he was far out of line again and bottom line... it does nothing but rial every one up as we are experiencing again here now. 

As a person who cares very much for the boating world and especially our community, I probably would have called Dagger myself to inform them of what their team is out there promoting and left it at that, but posting on BUZZ is still OK with me. Not everyone likes to go and get in a fight when they are enjoying the water...

Go ahead and flame away...


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## erdvm1 (Oct 17, 2003)

Totally OT. Craw ran the Chattooga two days ago, The Ocoee today (hell Hole was going off and I'm willing to give you directions on how to get to it) and the Green is on the horizon (hoping the man works on Wednesday) See you soon.


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## Jahve (Oct 31, 2003)

Clarification on my point  I agree that the term ****** should not be used in civilized conversations and it was a poor choice of words by the boater to get his point across. That term is in the same league as the n-bomb and the c-word. My point is that while considered unethical it is just words. I would not have let it ruin my day. Maybe it comes from my background but shit talkin is just that talk. It looks to me as if a uber sensitive boater got their feeling hurt (so sad). This type of activity is no different from a local surfer protecting their home break. Is this where kayaking is going? Only if people like buster push it there. 

Buster and the way that he handled this situation is flat out wrong. In my opinion buster demonstrated far less class than the boater. It is boaters like buster not the local boaters that will get us shut out of this place. It saddens me to see that any person would be so vindictive as to try to underhandedly discredit this person over 1 statement. Buster needs to learn respect and the ability to handle his own problems. If he is going to directly attack and undermine another persons life and or livelihood at least do it face to face. 

What the boater did was not the best example of river ethics. That aside we all have buster (not the local boater) to thank for bringing this to a boil, on the buzz no less, and getting us all 1 step closer to the elimination of this spot.

Thanks buster


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## Alex Hotze (Aug 24, 2004)

*I will repeat myself!!!!*

Dear Buster, 
I would like to start by explaining to you what you might have seen to make you(your
friends?) think I called you a [email protected]$king [email protected]$$ot. Dustin Urban, Brooks Baldwin, Corey Volt,
Ben Guska, and I were all there filming with a new technique we had never used before.
Dustin, Ben and I were all paddling when these two guys showed up on the bridge that
overlooks the wave. They stood there for about 20min watching us and taking digital
pictures. One guy went to get his video camera and when he returned he began filming
every ride. This would be like me going to the DC SHOES ramp out in the desert and
filming Danny Way and his homies at their home spot. The only and I repeat only time
that a paddler(myself) in the water had contact with the onlookers was when I signaled
them not to film as we already had three cameras going at the time. 

All of my friends that were there, who are all trustworthy people will say that there was
no yelling and name calling or anything of the sort. We also had cameras rolling this
whole entire time and I have watched the tape over and over now and I was NEVER
yelling. I also would have been yelling really really loud which you know if you have been
to the wave because of the massive noise it creates.To further my point after we got out
of the water we all went up and talked to these two guys and reintroduced ourselves.
You would think if someone you hardly knew had just called you a [email protected] and then they
walk up and introduce themselves there had been a misunderstanding. Instead of
asking me if I was angry at them or if I called them names, they acted friendly and then
went on about their paddling. I think we even offered to hold their camera while they
were both in the water. I do apologize for asking you guys not to video but enough is
enough and some People just don't understand when they are intruding. If one of them
would have been on the water it would have been a whole different story. 

It is insane that these two paddlers could be so jealous as to say I called them names
when in truth we were just asking them not to film us. We never said they couldn't set
their camera up on a tripod while they were paddling and record for days and show the
whole world. Enough people know about the wave that it is not in my wildest to call
them sexually degrading names because they weren't paddling. Jealousy really comes
into this picture when all of the sponsor names are brought up by the author and
posters. I was in fact just trying to protect our footage and the companies that
represent that footage by making it unique. When our boys from durango go home and
show the footy of our camera system to their bros it all of the sudden becomes well
known. 
"Some friends of mine were recently at the M wave checking it out when they saw these
guys doing some awesome tricks and took a digital picture at which point an prominent
member of team Dagger" Why would you post a message for you friends about their
encounter. This shows that the message is in fact through a second party and has
almost no relevance. 
Once again I apologize for trying to stop you guys from filming us but this is no reason to
get on a widely seen board and claim a high profile athlete was calling you sexually
degrading names. I have the hard cold proof in my video camera( that was rolling the
whole time) that I in fact didn't call these people names and this is purely a personal
attack that should have been solved differently. 
I don't think people realize how important kayaking is to me and they see it as a way to
be famous or well known. Kayaking is my life and for someone to blatantly lie about
something that didn't happen for the sole reason of giving me a bad name is malicious. I
have witnesses and video proof that this incident was a misunderstanding and the
people involved went about solving it in completely the wrong way. I am currently having
this message tracked so I can get to the bottom of this once and for all. Buster, it would
be good for you to show your face. The message posted was an attack on my personal
rights and let it be known there will be legal follow up on this case. If you feel you want
to contact me before I find you, my phone number is 970 209 8881. 
Sorry for any trouble this misunderstanding caused! 
Alex Hotze


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## Alex Hotze (Aug 24, 2004)

*C'mon A little back up here!*

Dear Mountainbuzzers,
I know most of you who replied to reality check in negative ways were just waiting for the time to come when you finally had somthing on me other that being a pro kayaker. Well it turns out this statement made by buster was entirely untrue when in fact buster is just a shop employee in Durango that probably has never surfed the wave and definently wasn't there that day. There might have been two of them saying I called them names at the top of my lungs but there were 5 of us that say nothing of the sort happened. I have been courteous to every one that I see at the wave and I only get upset when people do stupid things that endanger the spot. I hope I haven't lost all credibility because one person that you'all don't even know was speaking up for their friends and in general trying to cause drama by telling straight up lies! To all my paddling friends out there, come surf your brains out and I might even let you stay at my parent's house!
Alex


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## Mike Harvey (Oct 10, 2003)

Props Alex, for stepping up and dealing with Buster's accusation. You have always been my homey because since you were knee high to a dogs ass you have been a true paddling fiend and it takes one to know one. I doubt anyone who has ever hung out or paddled with you has ever been fazed by some Internet mud-slinging. 

I am more interested in what we can do to preserve access at the sickest spot in the State. I would love to get your feedback on some of the ideas that have been tossed around. You know the m-wave better than anyone. Either respond here or e-mail, [email protected]. I am interested in seeing what, if anything, we can do.


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## badkins (Oct 30, 2003)

> I am more interested in what we can do to preserve access at the sickest spot in the State.


Ditto, enough with this soap opera bs. This is a world class playspot, in a very dry state with very little good play...


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## FLOWTORCH (Mar 5, 2004)

YEAH!!



I just wanted to be part of one the biggest threads since chunderboy


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## sj (Aug 13, 2004)

Way to step up Alex. The story is diffren't now that both sides have had there say. As far as wishing you to fail that's just not the case. had the story been true about the language used then yeah. but not becuse of who you are but becuse any sponsered kayaker acting like that is bad for the sport. What do you think about mike's offer you would probably be instrumental in making anything positive happen. Curious about your thought's. peace sj


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## Jahve (Oct 31, 2003)

Alex,

I have been courteous to every one that I see at the wave and I only get upset when people do stupid things that endanger the spot.

I have been at this spot many times when you were there and this quote sums it up for me  I hope that you can track down that buster character. It is good to hear both sides of the story. Keep rippin it up and I look forward to seeing that footage in next seasons video.


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## Ken C (Oct 21, 2003)

Alex,

Sorry.

Buster, I'm assuming this is true and your an idiot. Your joke could have cost Alex his sponsorship. He would be justified to lay you out.

Sounds like Gore race boxing needs to step back onto the card. 

Ken


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## chewie (Aug 26, 2004)

I think it's pretty interesting that the "professionals" are so passionate about protecting access at this playspot, and yet they take video footage of this very same spot. If they are "trying to protect our footage and the companies that represent that footage ", then I would assume that they're going to be trying to sell this stuff from every street corner. 

Doesn't sound too much like they're trying to keep this spot under wraps, and any sort of knock on other people about ruining access is pretty hypocritical...

Flame away


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## esp (Jun 13, 2004)

humm???? are chewie and buster as afraid of the water as their owner is?

oh s#*t, did I just say that without getting a new anonymous ussername?


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## chewie (Aug 26, 2004)

Huh?
esp - if you want to know my name, it's Doug. No world class kayaker here, that's for sure. Afraid of the water? Usually.
Peace


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## Lurch (Jun 8, 2004)

chewie said:


> Huh?
> esp - if you want to know my name, it's Doug. No world class kayaker here, that's for sure. Afraid of the water? Usually.
> Peace



I think what he is trying to say is that it's strange that a lurker's first post would be Flame Bait and that you probably have another username you did not want to use for this post just like Buster choose to do. 

To respond to your first post, how do we know that the video would endanger the spot? Every video has tons of waves in it. The footage might be shot in a way that you can't tell it apart from any others. Only the ones there know what the video looks like. I think this thread has done the wave the most harm. I had never heard of it up till last week and now I now the city that it's in, it's in a ditch and the name of the land owner. From all that info it would not take a rocket scientist to find it.


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## paddlebizzle (Oct 15, 2003)

I can't even surf M-wave yet, but lost water access isn't good for anyone. 

Here are some good resources that you can use if you are in intimate contact with the area and understand the politics.
1. Trail Access Fund: www.accessfund.org
This company mostly deals with mountain and hiking trail access, but ACG is a major funder, which is good for us. Maybe they can help us out.

2. American Whitewater Association
We raised over $1000.00 for AWA during the Young Gun Productions premier during Teva (ALEX!!!). I have contacts with AWA, and they should definitely be able to help out. 

Let me know if you want me to make phone calls. This goes for any river access problems. . . 

Jeff


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## Squints (Jan 18, 2004)

I hate to bring up a dead topic but i just read this post for the first time today, and it pisses me off that "buster" is say what happened really happened because i was there as a witness that it didn't happen, like Alex said we were there filming and the showed up and stood there for awhile taking pics and we said nothing to them. then one of the guys got out a video camera and started to film, Alex was down on the water and was signaling for them not to film and pointed at all of the cameras we had set up. He handled it very professionally i thought. 

I agree with him about the filming part and would you go to the vans skate park in the dessert and film them? I'm pretty sure they wouldn't apreciate it very much.

just my 2 cents 

Corey Volt


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## strive (Sep 15, 2004)

I am truly new to this forum, and hope I'm not picking at old wounds. It sounds like boater courtesy was in good form until the same paddlers got behind computers, which is typical. Still I wonder who has the legal right to film?
I recently read "if someone is shooting outdoor scenes in the City of Reno [where I work] , they must acquire a use permit in which all of the rights, privileges, obligations and restrictions that pertain to the film company are specified, as are restrictions on the citizens and visitors in the city. Use permits are negotiated with the City of Reno, which represents the interests of the citizenry as a whole. The area in which the filming is to take place is specified in the permit. It may or may not contain a buffer zone, and it may be renegotiated if exigent circumstances make it necessary. The movie set may be designated as a "Closed Set." If it is so designated, then the affected area must be posted to notify the public that they have no access while the film crew is working. The area is then considered to be private property in the sense that a rented apartment is considered the private property of the tenant; therefore, if an unauthorized person enters the filming area, (s)he can be arrested for trespassing ... As far as taking pictures of the filming activities is concerned, as long as the photographer remains outside the posted 'Closed Set,' (s)he may take as many pictures as desired, with any photographic equipment that (s)he deems necessary, for as long as the film supply lasts and no one can prevent him/her from doing so."

So my question is: is a legal document required on the land/water in question to grant the right to film privately?
-Mark


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## ZLSeth (Aug 17, 2004)

Until I read this thread, I knew there was a wave called the M-Wave, but I knew nothing about it.

I really don't follow the pro-paddling scene much, so I didn't know Alex Hotze's name.

At the beginning of the thread, I thought outright that someone a sponsored athlete, who behaves in the accused manner, should have their sponsorship dropped immediately. I was outraged and thought that Alex Hotze had no place in the pro-paddling community.

The entire thread turned around 180 degrees when Alex responded maturely and responsibly... and offered proof that "buster", probably aka "chewie", whose name may or may not be "Doug" (a lot of good that does, telling your first name), is a liar.

Just for the hell of it, I checked the profiles for "buster" and "chewie". Did anyone else notice that their profiles have no names and both accounts were created on the days that they posted their first posts.

In addition, "buster" claims to be a female, every indication in this htread indicates that buster is a male ([email protected] is a term almost exclusively uesd to insult males).

Finally, why the title "Reality Check" when reality had very little to do with it?

Strange as it may sound, Alex, this little weasel may have done you some good. After the truth came out, you have made yourself out to be a stand-up guy. When the footage you shot makes its way into a video or film of some sort, I'd like to see it (is the mew move as cool as it is made-out to be?). When your name comes up in the occsional video I watch, I will remember you and the people who defended your character.

buster-chewie-Doug can consider himself forgotten already....

Good luck to those who are taking action to preserve the M-Wave. Maybe, just maybe this thread will actually do some good there, too.


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## Western Slope WaterMan (Mar 18, 2004)

What makes anyone think they can tell me not to use my camcorder (in this situation)? I'll film any damn thing I wish, thank you very much. 
You can BET the location of the one remaining canal surf wave in GJ isn't EVER going to be posted here. (I guess I could call it the G-Spot :lol: )


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## Mountain (Oct 11, 2003)

I'm going to rearrange some rocks in the creek that runs out side my back door... and I will call it my Bung-hole, and you will all be welcome to come play in and film my Bung- hole.....
POWDER TO THE PEOPLE!!!!
MM


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