# Possible Accident on Boulder Creek?



## BruneKayak (May 23, 2008)

Actually it was a friend and myself who lost our boats up boulder creek. We had to swim and then drove way down river and began to walk up to try and find our boats. Apparently they got stuck and people driving by called the police. Other than just getting banged up, were doing pretty well. Thanks for the thoughts.


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## STLAndy (May 23, 2008)

*I was hoping that's what happened*

Good news. Glad to hear you got your boat back too. 

And I guess it's nice to know those people on the bike path are paying attention, and bring their cells phones.


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## crackeryaker (Oct 15, 2003)

were you really not wearing a pfd?


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## aschmidt (Mar 18, 2007)

I would hope anyone who knows what PFD stands for would be wearing a PFD in that situation.

So were you really not wearing a life jacket?


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## GAtoCSU (Apr 18, 2005)

2 boats and 2 swimmers. Damn.. Find some unexpected pleasure in the canyon?


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## possumturd (Jul 13, 2006)

*paddle*

I saw a paddle laying on the bank just above the dam at the top of the WW course last night. Might still be there.


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## cma (Dec 19, 2003)

crackeryaker said:


> were you really not wearing a pfd?


where did he say he wasn't wearing a pfd?


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## crackeryaker (Oct 15, 2003)

aschmidt said:


> I would hope anyone who knows what PFD stands for would be wearing a PFD in that situation.





aschmidt said:


> So were you really not wearing a life jacket?




good point schmidt

cma, that was just what i heard from some boater at the park in town, defiantly a rumor, that’s why i was asking at the source...from what "this guy" said "these two guys got it the water above the buttres, one in something like an evo, one w/o a lifejacket, and then they both proceeded to swim with in five strokes, then they went home to get a car or something. Admittedly this sounds like an exaggerated account...


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## thecraw (Oct 12, 2003)

Heard the same things.... Cracker.. you must be Mike? 

Bottom line on this is that these boys are probably looking at several thousand dollars in bills for what happened after they bailed. There were two fire engines, scuba team, ambulances, tons of general rescue workers and people stopping traffic so they could use one lane in the canyon. My guess over 30 people for several hours.
Overkill yes, especially hindsite 20/20. BUT, the city's can't just "sorta react" when they find a boat in the river and no one that knows what happened to the paddler(s). I am sure they have a canned response since they have no idea if there is a body pinned above or below the boat. Think of it... the body could be f'n 10 miles up or downstream for all they know. With today's litigous(sp?) socienty... that a price that... well, they are going to pay for doing something that stupid. (leaving a scene of an accident of that nature).
I am glad they are OK, but I would be very surprised if their wallets aren't a lot skinnier...

Didn't Golden charge 3K to someone that did the same thing last year in Lower CC???


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## sundown (Jul 16, 2005)

That was a little freaky, glad everything worked out.


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## Dave Frank (Oct 14, 2003)

I was most impressed by the dozens of emergency workers and the need to block a lane of traffic in the canyon to get at the pinned boat, even though they were accessing the spot from the driveways on river left.

As we drove by the road block, I heard one of the firefighters say "there go our next victims".

I also heard one of the boaters was not wearing a pfd.

Dave


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## Gary E (Oct 27, 2003)

It's a good Idea for you Colorado Boaters or anyone planning on paddling there to go to REI and buy a 5yr hikers pass for 20 bones. It will cover rescue fees as this cards money goes to support rescues. Go get one

Gary


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## carvedog (May 11, 2005)

thecraw said:


> Heard the same things.... Cracker.. you must be Mike?
> 
> Bottom line on this is that these boys are probably looking at several thousand dollars in bills for what happened after they bailed. There were two fire engines, scuba team, ambulances, tons of general rescue workers and people stopping traffic so they could use one lane in the canyon. My guess over 30 people for several hours.
> Overkill yes, especially hindsite 20/20. BUT, the city's can't just "sorta react" when they find a boat in the river and no one that knows what happened to the paddler(s). I am sure they have a canned response since they have no idea if there is a body pinned above or below the boat. Think of it... the body could be f'n 10 miles up or downstream for all they know. With today's litigous(sp?) socienty... that a price that... well, they are going to pay for doing something that stupid. (leaving a scene of an accident of that nature).
> ...


Unless the paddlers or someone representing them ( a wife, bf or gf) calls the authorities how can they bill them for this? Leaving the scene... is a motor vehicle law here in Idaho anyway. Applies to powered motor boats as well. I think even if you are on a bicycle and run into something causing injury or property damage the same law could apply. 

For losing your shit on a creek and not being able to find it - give me a break.


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## yetigonecrazy (May 23, 2005)

Gary E said:


> It's a good Idea for you Colorado Boaters or anyone planning on paddling there to go to REI and buy a 5yr hikers pass for 20 bones. It will cover rescue fees as this cards money goes to support rescues. Go get one
> 
> Gary


i was just gonna say.......save yourselves a boatload of trouble and buy that card!!! its not just for boating either.....


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## Gary E (Oct 27, 2003)

If you lose your shit, report it to the authorities so they know you're OK and have the color of the boat and who it belong to. Common sense, right Slee?

Gary


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## brettb (Apr 9, 2005)

yeah right! there is no way they can charge these gus!! 
well........ they can charge them!!! but no way will that hold up in court!!!!

plus its wrong!!!! unless THEY called for help!!!! or were actually on site and needing assistance!!!!!!

Imagine the next time you go for a trip and

only one person in the party swims and loses there goods !

everyone is safe and you leave to get freinds/support to help retreive a pinned boat?

and some touron from Texas decides oh boy someone might be in there!

do you really think you would want to be charged and that would be OK?

I can see calling the local authorities to try and eliminate a false rescue!

I would stay with the boat but if you cant get to it until the water subsides you will likely get a call from a tourist to EMS!

also many of us have the same make, model and colored boats and as it may be rare (maybe not) this could hamper a real rescue that is happening at the same time or even the next day if it were to get reported again! (if the boat could not be removed previously) tough call on that one!

I dont know?, this just sounds like a bad situation for both teams!!!
we have a certain responsibility to manage our situations on the river but to have someone freak out and call EMS is not a good deal for anyone!!!!!
and can compromise our personal responsibility!


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## Cheyenne (Oct 14, 2003)

*Reminder -- report to S&R folks if you leave a boat in or along the river*

*A repeat of what I posted in the Alerts... * 
Have the phone number for non-emergency calls to the local S&R folks handy. If you and your craft are separated, give them a courtesy call to let them know. 

Give the location, type of craft, the color, and any other identifiable information. Also, ensure them that the person who was in the boat is safely out of the situation. It might also be helpful to describe if there is a possibility that the boat may float free. It is probably helpful if you have at least your phone number somehow "attached" to your boat.

Remember that if they see or get a report of a kayak all by it's lonesome, they will have to assume that the owner is somewhere in deep doo-doo and will start a search for the owner in the most logical place (the river).

A simple call might save a lot of time that these folks spend searching for someone that is not there. 


City of Boulder the number is (303) 441-3333 for non-critical emergencies


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## BruneKayak (May 23, 2008)

*I was the kayaker*

Let me set this story straight. I have been kayaking for about 8 years and of course i had a saftey vest on or pdf. Where did you get that idea. After swimming we hiked back up to my car which took about 30 min because we had to climb the side of a cliff. When we reached my car we drove down past where i believed my kayaks and paddles could have floated to. When there is over $2,000 dollar worth of shit floating down river you don't want to walk down stream and hope that it stops, you go beloew where it should be and walk up. Also whom ever said we left the scene, we flipped over a half mile up river from where they found my boats, so even if we stayed at the scene we would have not seen the rescue, police ect because they were down stream of where we went swimming. While we were walking up the creek we sent my buddies twin brother to go ask around up by the park to see if anyone stopped the boats. When he got up there he saw a ranger and told him that it was our boats after they had been there for about 15min. However they insisted on staying for another 2 hours for no fucking reason but to dislodge a boat and make myself go chase it down river and jump in a get it myself. If every kayaker called 911 afeter losing a kayak and it prevented them from helping someone who was in need they would be bitching about kayaker tying up the phone lines. When my friends brother told them it was my kayaks they should have left but no they stayed and kept asking are you sure its your boats. Needless to say it is very nice that there are people out there to help us but when a kayaker tells the authorities that its their boat they need to just leave. I hope this better defines the events that occured that day.


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## brettb (Apr 9, 2005)

DONT GIVE THEM A PENNY!!!!!! (IF THEY TRY TO CHARGE YOU)


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## blurredelevens (Jun 23, 2005)

This reminds me wayyy too much of this incident.
K Chute Slide - Teton Gravity Research Forums

How about SAR/fire/police only respond when they're needed/wanted?

Oh yeah, because most of them are just looking for a little excitement/ego boost in their otherwise pathetic lives.


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## paddlebizzle (Oct 15, 2003)

brettb said:


> yeah right! there is no way they can charge these gus!!
> well........ they can charge them!!! but no way will that hold up in court!!!!
> 
> plus its wrong!!!! unless THEY called for help!!!! or were actually on site and needing assistance!!!!!!


I love it when everyone becomes a legal expert on this stuff despite lacking a JD or passing the Colorado Bar. Gimme a break...

Gary's right - 
1) buy your backcountry/hiker's pass for $20 and spare yourself the search and rescue cost. This goes for ski season too.
2) Call the authorita and tell them you're fine and that you are recovering your gear. Be very clear where you were, what color your gear is etc. That way they don't initiate the full brigade when bystanders call 911 for your orange boat but will do a search if for a call about a green boat in a different rapid.

That said, sounds like Brune did the best he could with getting in trouble in a high visibility area.


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## brettb (Apr 9, 2005)

paddlebizzle said:


> I love it when everyone becomes a legal expert on this stuff despite lacking a JD or passing the Colorado Bar. Gimme a break...
> .


Not looking to start an arguement!!!

Funny how people assume you have no law experience or just plain talking out ones ass!!!! ( but I guess a lot of people do that here )

Been working in the outdoor recreation industry now for 10 years and had to study the laws/ liaibility/ assumption of risk etc. for my Masters Degree.
also had to deal with some similar junk working for an organization out of state! 

but do your best like Paddle bizzle and Gary E say to eliminate any possible hassle for yourself and the EMS people!


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## paddlebizzle (Oct 15, 2003)

brettb said:


> Been working in the outdoor recreation industry now for 10 years and had to study the laws/ liaibility/ assumption of risk etc. for my Masters Degree.
> also had to deal with some similar junk working for an organization out of state!


That's great, and kudos for your work, but you don't actually have a JD designation or passed the Colorado Bar. That's all I'm saying....


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## craven_morhead (Feb 20, 2007)

I'm gonna have a JD in a year.

Just sayin'


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## TimWalker (Oct 25, 2003)

I'm gonna have a PBR in about 10 minutes.


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## paddlebizzle (Oct 15, 2003)

TimWalker said:


> I'm gonna have a PBR in about 10 minutes.


Hopefully not from a booty. Otherwise I'm jealous.

Speaking of laws, when do we get to start buying booze on Sundays?


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## kayakfreakus (Mar 3, 2006)

I think the "blue law" change takes place in June, I may be incorrect


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## Snowhere (Feb 21, 2008)

I believe it takes effect July 1st, just in time for the July 4th weekend.


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## IkayakNboard (May 12, 2005)

brettb said:


> yeah right! there is no way they can charge these gus!!
> well........ they can charge them!!! but no way will that hold up in court!!!!
> 
> plus its wrong!!!! unless THEY called for help!!!! or were actually on site and needing assistance!!!!!!
> ...


 
I'm really curious about your logic here. If someone was in serious danger, i.e. pinned upside down in their boat, or unconscious and floating down stream, etc...how can THEY call for help? With the number of deaths on Boulder Creek over the past several years, do you blame people for calling the authorities if they think there is a remote possibility that someone's life might be at risk? Would it be better if no one ever called unless they were absolutely sure someone was in danger? What if you had driven past a similar situation, later to find out someone died because no one contacted the authorities, and you're left with a feeling of "what if I had called, maybe they would still be alive"? I would rather a couple false alarms than not have help arrive if someone really needs it...and with the "victims" no where to be found, how could anyone be sure?

If you are in danger, and someone else calls the authorities to help you, can you simply say "I didn't need their help; I'm not paying them a cent. I would have eventually gotten out of the situation."? I'm genuinely curious, since you've spent so many years studying these laws, and I have not. Does the same logic apply to ambulance rides? If I get in a car accident and am knocked out cold, but otherwise okay, and wake up in a hospital courtesy of an ambulance, can I refuse payment for the ambulance ride because I didn't ask for the ride, and didn't really need medical attention?

Can you cite the laws that dictate a person is not liable for search/rescue services if they are okay and did not call the authorities? If I were to use an exclamation point after almost every sentence would I sound more convincing?


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