# First Time Grand Canyon....



## nightingale (Aug 12, 2007)

I'm going to be rowing the Grand Canyon for the first time end of Aug and just gathering tips to help with this.... I'm excited but nervous at the same time!

I have a 14fter, but think I should go with a bigger boat. I was thinking 16ft. It's a small group, so not a huge amount of gear, but still, you're going to have a lot for 3 weeks. Plus, I want the weight. Suggestions?

Also, what's a good flow for the Canyon? I'm not as familiar with the different flows, so don't know if it gets more mean at some levels and easier at others. 

Any thoughts?


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## BarryDingle (Mar 13, 2008)

Maximum cargo capacity is nice when your out there for that long. Plus,you get a nice sense of security and stability when lookin at the V-wave or splittin the horns:grin:. I took a 18ft Maravia on our 21day trip-loved it,except in the wind. Had tons of space and room left over. And that diamond plating all over the frame sho is nice to walk around on.In a 14fter your gonna be loaded down and pretty heavy,and more than likely you'll flip. You may not though if your a stud on the sticks. Plenty of people do it in 14footers and do just fine. I'll definitely be taking the same 18fter next year though! Shiits big. And i love having all that space...

Best not to worry about the flows,ya got not control over em anyways. It all depends on what time you hit the rapids and where they are in relation to the Dam and when the releases are and the pull of the moon and the tides and ranger peggy.....try not to think about it. I know we did try and hit Crystal at higher water though--gives you a little bit more room to pull right of the monster holes and not get hung up on rocks along the right shore.

With the tides,keep an eye on the boats overnight,esp during the first week or so,higher up in the canyon. Don't want your boat bein left high n' dry. 

Its an awesome trip. Enjoy the big shit. Its scary to look at but a blast once your in it.


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## cadster (May 1, 2005)

I was on a six person trip in March for 25 days. We had two 14' rafts and a dory. No one came close to flipping and we had no problems hauling our food and gear.


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## UserName (Sep 7, 2007)

"The more than likely your gonna flip" comment is uncalled for in my opinion. Nothing wrong with a 14'er down there. Trade off is 14'er is more maneuverable / 18'er more stable/holds momentum. I'd rather be maneuverable and in the right place faster than stable and still struggling to get there. Definitely arguments both ways though.


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## davedlg (May 22, 2007)

I took a 14'er down in March. My advice? No problem with the boat, but don't get too cocky. I made it through all the big rapids no problem, but flipped in a rapid no one has ever heard of thinking, "I can take a piece of that hole...". You can get away with almost anything down there in the bigger boats, you need to be very careful with the smaller boats. 

Having only rowed 18-footers down there before, I really enjoyed the smaller boat. It was a lot of fun in some of the big stuff - the waves in Hermit probably being the best. Everything seemed so much bigger in a little boat that I ever remember it being.

Don't underestimate the amount of gear you have. I have never been on a trip where we are loading at Lees Ferry and had lots of excess space. You can probably carry 3 or 4 times more gear on an 18-footer than a 14-footer.

If you do rent an 18er from Brady or Pro or someone like that, you likely won't regret it, they are really solid, good boats which rig up quickly and carry a ton of stuff. 

Oh yeah - don't go left in bedrock. :wink:


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## cadster (May 1, 2005)

Our boatman took the 14 footers on standard routes through most rapids except Crystal which they ran left of the hole. We also watched another group flip an 18 footer in House Rock so don't go expecting a bigger boat to be unable to go over.


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## peakone (Apr 5, 2008)

nightingale said:


> I'm going to be rowing the Grand Canyon for the first time end of Aug and just gathering tips to help with this.... I'm excited but nervous at the same time!
> 
> I have a 14fter, but think I should go with a bigger boat. I was thinking 16ft. It's a small group, so not a huge amount of gear, but still, you're going to have a lot for 3 weeks. Plus, I want the weight. Suggestions?
> 
> ...


I've rowed my 14' boat down the GC three times at various water levels. Havent flipped there (yet). I would say it has more to do with the boatmin than the boat...


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## oarbender (Feb 3, 2007)

14' will be fine, although I agree that having a little extra packing space is nice. If you pac light, don't take a bunch of extra stuff (trinkets, and toys) it will be just fine.

Its ALL about skill on the sticks.

OB~


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## BmfnL (May 23, 2009)

The Colorado in the Grand is basically a pool/drop river.

The drops are quite pleasant, but those darn pools wear on ya....


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## whip (Oct 23, 2003)

You'll want a copy of Lindemans Guide for your first trip.

I'm doin my 4th Grand in a 14 in Sept no worries.


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## CanyonEJ (Jul 28, 2008)

As said before, 14 footers are run down there all the time. 

August water should be good fun. 14,000 - 18,000 or so last year, I think. Although every year is different, and there's no telling what they will end up releasing. If it's that high, the gorge will be fun. You should be able to split the horns in Horn. You can still split those at pretty low levels. The right run at Crystal will be a bit more open. Hermit will be a ridiculous amount of fun. Keep 'er straight, push like hell, and get out of the wave train before the 10th wave. At those levels it eats boats. Weight and momentum are your friends. Have Fun!!!!


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## lmaciag (Oct 10, 2003)

My raft is a little over 14' and I took her down in November after 6 months on the oars (but several years of kayaking before that). I was very happy with the size of the boat. No flips, but two swims in smaller rapids. One thinking I was past the sleeper hole in the runout (thus sideways looking up stream) and the other being distracted by a passenger and missed by one stroke. Almost got bumped by the V in Lava. I had a friend bet that I'd flip 5 times. He still hasn't paid up.

Pay attention. I was pretty heavy (an inch or two below the line at Lees), but think that was to my advantage. I was still able to move to where I wanted to be, but helped me punch in other places. It's all in the setup!

I thought about borrowing a 16', but decided to stick with the boat that I know.

Keep up with the map/guidebook... we spread out a bit above 209 and it resulted in a flip in that rapid b/c they didn't know where they were.

Some things are harder at low water, some at higher water.


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## BarryDingle (Mar 13, 2008)

UserName said:


> "The more than likely your gonna flip" comment is uncalled for in my opinion. Nothing wrong with a 14'er down there. Trade off is 14'er is more maneuverable / 18'er more stable/holds momentum. I'd rather be maneuverable and in the right place faster than stable and still struggling to get there. Definitely arguments both ways though.


 
Pffft,"uncalled for?" Waaah. I knew that there would be some jackwhip who would cry a river cause i said 14footers are more than likely gonna flip. Congrats,your him. Like i said,"PLENTY of people do it in 14fters and do just fine." Your odds of flippin are still greater in a 14fter.And a 14footer loaded to the max,and then some, is not gonna perform as well as you'd love to make yourself believe. I wish i could remember thinking of a spot,or even an eddy, that i was "struggling to get to" in my big,slow 18fter. 

Like a wise,old river bud told me-"Its always the Indian,never the arrow."

Edit: And if you wanna split the horns then scout it well. There's some rocks in there(not the horns) that you can't see from most places. And like lmaciag said---its all in the setup


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## Fuzzy (May 25, 2005)

If you can get your hands on the 16 why not. More beer room you'll need it


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## Mike Hartley (May 1, 2006)

I've been down there with 12' to 18 footers. I think a 16' is the best compromise if you have the option. They are all fun.


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## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

BarryDingle said:


> Pffft"


This is my favorite word today. It's one of those days.

We split the horns, no scout (we didn't scout many). That was freaking FUN! It sure helps to follow someone whose been down many times.

Shoot, we ended up split before 209 too. I had a relief rower. I looked up when I heard the rapid, asked her if she wanted to row it, then I saw the hole shoot a geyser for just a second. I jumped to the oars and I think I was about an inch away from it as I went by. Whew!


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## Newty (Mar 31, 2009)

Yeah, 209 is a boat eater, we don't even take Jrigs in there. The left run at Crystal is fun if you know where you're going. I did my first and only private in Oct-Nov of 07, we had 14 people and 8 of us were GCRG's. we had 4 18's 1 16' and one 14' and on kayaker (me) No flips,No swims. we were hurrying through some of the more popular spots, passed up elves, pulled into the mouth of havazoo and pulled right back out, trying to hit the spots we rarely see when working, had a couple other private groups tell us "Hey, slow down, there is a lot of canyon to see" Yep thanks for that, have fun up havazoo. So my advice is take your 14 if you're comfortable with it, if not get a 18 and load her down. Have fun, if you need Ice beg it off of western boats and tell em Newty sent ya!:grin:


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## slowgan (Jun 12, 2007)

You can get 250 lbs of beer in the front bay of a 16' (3 people, 25 days to Pierce, end up with enough beer for the de-rig). You can't get that much in a 14'. Cargo space is important if your group is not very conservative with the gear.

In the couple trips I've done, it's the 15' (Upset) and 19' (209) boats that flip, though the 14' give a sporty ride. As others said, it's far more about who is behind the oars.


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## ednaout (Jun 3, 2005)

Cheers to the 14 footer! I ran the grand in an 18' and thankfully didn't flip anywhere but sure wished for the maneuverability of a 14er in a couple of rapids....Bedrock, Horn...to name a couple. On the flipside (pun intended) I was thankful for my 18'er when i hit the V wave in lava and the monster hole after the V wave. Both sizes have prose and cons (getcher mind outa the gutter). Overall, 14 or 18, rain or shine, upstream or downstream winds, beer or coffee (or both), the GRAND is F*in awesome and you'll have a great time! 
Be sure to post some pics and stories when you return! 
Beth


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