# Best Shade Structure?



## markfortcollins

Hey Buzzards. Looking to see what people like for shade structure. I have looked into and read about several products, but figured it would be best to hear from our own community on their likes and dislikes. Also trying to kill two birds with one stone and take it with us to Baja on the beach for spring break. Ideas, pictures, curse words... all are welcome.


----------



## MT4Runner

Best I've seen by far is the Dragonfly tarp, but it requires a pair of oars or well-placed trees.


Not sure about self-supported.


----------



## 90Duck

We've got an REI Alcove. It covers a 10'X10' area which makes it great for a kitchen on a raft trip, and for car camping it will fit over the raised rear hatch on our 4Runner, making a nice sheltered area at the back of the vehicle. I also bought walls for it so it can be enclosed.

Downside is it is pretty heavy (steel poles) and relatively bulky when folded up. Also, the REI brand has been discontinued, but it appears the design has been sold to Kelty and you can get them for cheap right now on their website:

https://www.rei.com/product/115519/...MIxKWBkqva4AIVJRh9Ch1fvAqtEAQYASABEgKIAfD_BwE


----------



## MontanaLaz

I went through this last year.

I was trying to find the perfect thing for multiple uses for a family of four that was cost effective. I called manufacturers, asked friends, scoured the internet for trip reports and gear reviews, poured over catalogs, the whole nine yards. 

Spoiler Alert: I Failed

I went with a Big Agnes 3 Forks Shelter with additional side walls. Not dissimilar from 90Duck's REI option. It is free standing, sets up easily, can be used as a shade structure at a festival, rain and sun shelter on the river, as a tent that you can stand up and move around in...

It sucks in the wind (fold over and collapse with bent poles sucks), isn't waterproof, worthless if bugs are a concern, yada, yada, yada.

It got used for a 4 day early season Yellowstone float trip where it rained and was in the 40's, went on the Smith with me, a music festival in July, and the Main Salmon in August.

I tried, I really did. It was a terrible compromise at best. I made modifications, experimented with various guy line methods, different orientations to the prevailing wind, cots and no cots...

By the end of last season, I had determined that the 3 Forks will likely go along for those trips were you have to set up in tight conditions and want some privacy, like at a festival or some other outdoor event, but will otherwise stay packed up in the gear shed. I wanted a do it all shelter that cut down on packed space and set up fast (and it does do that, just not well) because it always seems like my river time is eaten up by set up and tear down while my wife looks after the kids. I am just going to have to grin and bear it until they are a bit older.

The current choice is an MSR Rendevous 200 Tarp with a couple of extra poles. If you've got good sand stakes it can be rigged up pretty bomber, but it is a PITA to set up really well in "challenging" conditions. I almost talked myself into a dragonfly, and still want one  but I needed to be flexible for non-river based adventures.

It's a whole other story, but don't try and go too cheap on your shelter either. I had a Kelty Noah's Tarp literally rip to shreds in steady but reasonable onshore winds while in Big Sur. I also dealt with a couple of gnarly shelter failures when building my cabin.

This has been a multi-year quest.

I'm beginning to think that I am going to simply deal with the sun and only set up a shelter when needed to have a dry place to prepare meals.


----------



## kayakfreakus

The Juice9000 - completely custom, sewn with industrial sewer. It is like one step up from siltarp I think. It actually takes a wind pretty well and minimal space on his cat. Reinforced grommets and webbing for all the attachment points and the poles tie into the system.

He said it is was a lot of work, not sure if he would do it again, but it is pretty awesome.


----------



## Managan

I too have enjoyed the Juice 9000 on my last Grand trip. It is a great shelter. I went for the Noah's Tarp 12 and do like it but have never used it in any real winds.


----------



## SigNewt

I have a 16' Noahs tarp that gave up the ghost along one seam last year on a windy/rainy Lodore trip. It was a great tarp (12-13yrs old). 



Replaced it with an NRS river wing. It looks to be of good quality but it was expensive and the poles are heavy and long (42" minimum). I have some MSR poles I will be using along with oars and leave the NRS poles at home.


----------



## caverdan

I take two or three of these along with a couple of nylon tarps for roofs if it's raining. Shade cloth work great on it's own or as walls to block the wind. If you double them up or use a couple of layers, you can cook in Deso winds.....no problem. I have MRS tent poles in an old chair bag I drag along if I don't have oars to rig to. https://www.amazon.com/Perfect-Sunb...ocphy=9029014&hvtargid=pla-368296881099&psc=1


----------



## markfortcollins

Thanks for all the responses. 

So I've looked pretty heavily into the Big Agnes Deep Creek Tarp (L). From what I have read it seems like a decent shelter with a good coverage area (275 SF). 

https://www.bigagnes.com/Deep-Creek-Tarp

For the sand anchor points I'm going to rig up something to connect to the Neso Tent Anchor bag. Hell... @ $2.00 each you cant really go wrong even if they are not worth a shit.... which they very well could be just that. 

https://www.nesotents.com/collections/accessories/products/extra-anchor-bag-and-rope-various-sizes

BA has an anchor (bag?) type system, but much more expensive. I figured I'd try the Neso accessory first.


----------



## portermoab

I have the BA Deep Creek tarp. It's nice. I've been using these for sand stakes and they work really well (and they're cheap): https://www.homedepot.com/p/Everbilt-11-in-Orange-Super-Spike-Ground-Stake-72886/206094317


----------



## Osprey

I've got the big MSR one as well and it's holding up well after a few years. For a couple hundo it's great. 

I don't think there's any way those sand bags are going to work in anything other than no wind, unless maybe they are buried. These things are big enough they take a lot of force if there's a decent wind, the anchors need to be super solid in my experience. Which can be hard to do in sand. Even the small toughstakes are pretty impressive. 

I've got a huge one of those amazon sun sails over my patio in the backyard, never thought of that for the river, not a bad idea at all!


----------



## markfortcollins

Osprey said:


> I don't think there's any way those sand bags are going to work in anything other than no wind, unless maybe they are buried. These things are big enough they take a lot of force if there's a decent wind, the anchors need to be super solid in my experience. Which can be hard to do in sand. Even the small toughstakes are pretty impressive.
> 
> 
> Yeah... I guess that is what you do with them. Fill the bags of sand, then dig a hole and burry them down deep. Seems like it should work... worth a try for $2 a piece. I'll have a look at the toughlstakes too.


----------



## athelake

I have been using 12" surplus military stakes from Ebay for several years. You can get 24 shipped for $30. They hold surprisingly well in sand, we even use them for a volleyball net on the Salmon.


----------



## Fly By Night

I've been wondering myself, I'd like to add the Whitewater worthy All Weather Tarp into the mix, they come on three sizes, are similar to a river wing and don't cost as much as a beater vehicle. 

https://www.whitewaterworthy.com/product/all-weather-tarp-shelter/


----------



## Fly By Night

athelake said:


> I have been using 12" surplus military stakes from Ebay for several years. You can get 24 shipped for $30. They hold surprisingly well in sand, we even use them for a volleyball net on the Salmon.


Thanks for the feedback, I've been eyeing those, have you tried wrapping rope in the middle of them and burying for soft sand?


----------



## codycleve

A couple years ago a guy built some great sand anchors... it was a sheet of flexible plastic "think trash can material". The sheets where about 8 inches wide by 20 inches long... each end had a loop of parachute cord attached to it... we just buried the strip deep leaving the 2 ends of the cord above the surface to attach your line to. We had a thunder storm and bad winds.. they never budged.. i plan on making somr this summer. They are Cheap an really effective 

Sent from my SM-G920V using Mountain Buzz mobile app


----------



## Whitewater Worthy Equip

Here is another option...

https://www.whitewaterworthy.com/product/all-weather-tarp-shelter/


----------



## athelake

Fly By Night said:


> Thanks for the feedback, I've been eyeing those, have you tried wrapping rope in the middle of them and burying for soft sand?


I usually just buried them deeper and put a rock on the rope. They hold pretty well.

I'd like to make some like Codycleve suggested.


----------



## codycleve

athelake said:


> I usually just buried them deeper and put a rock on the rope. They hold pretty well.
> 
> I'd like to make some like Codycleve suggested.


They weigh nothing, stack, and lay flat in the bottom of a drop bag, which is nice.. 

Sent from my SM-G920V using Mountain Buzz mobile app


----------



## kayakingphotog

Fly By Night said:


> I've been wondering myself, I'd like to add the Whitewater worthy All Weather Tarp into the mix, they come on three sizes, are similar to a river wing and don't cost as much as a beater vehicle.
> 
> https://www.whitewaterworthy.com/product/all-weather-tarp-shelter/


Hey Fly By,

Those are a great price point. Do you personally own one and can vouch for its toughness?

Thanks, David


----------



## Voodoo003

Big fan of these guys. They are from New Zealand and are now in Washington. The batwing is bomber and the price is pretty good. I like their gear.

https://luxe-hiking-gear.com/collec...tents/products/batwing-group-lightweight-tarp


----------



## Fly By Night

kayakingphotog said:


> Fly By Night said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've been wondering myself, I'd like to add the Whitewater worthy All Weather Tarp into the mix, they come on three sizes, are similar to a river wing and don't cost as much as a beater vehicle.
> 
> https://www.whitewaterworthy.com/product/all-weather-tarp-shelter/
> 
> 
> 
> Hey Fly By,
> 
> Those are a great price point. Do you personally own one and can vouch for its toughness?
> 
> Thanks, David
Click to expand...


I cannot, I've come accross those wile looking for rigging, I am curious about durability and ease of set-up with oars myself. If they are solid (which I suspect they are) I'd like to get one for my San Juan trip in July. I've also wondered how the bigger sizes do in wind and how small tney pack down.


----------



## Osprey

It looks like the difference of the whitewater worthy ones vs some of the others mentioned is that it is a polyethylene tarp material. more of what you think of as a tarp...blue tarp, silver tarp. thick reinforced plastic material. the batwing/msr/kelty whatever are a polyester fabric with coating, more of what you think of with a tent fly.


----------



## almortal

Is anyone going to mention anything practical for a poverty boater with kids?

There is always the option of the pop up event style tents. Yeah, they are bulky but they can be found cheap and go up quick and easy. Some of them have attachable walls. Those light expensive tarps are great and all but they are not fun to set up on the beach if the weather is already unpleasant and you have kids to juggle. One person can easily set it up in the wind and rain. And they don't collapse on the kitchen if children running around trip over the guylines (good luck not swearing like my drunk grandmother when that happens). They may be big, but they are stress free if you have a 7 and 9 year old, are weather resilient and easy to move if the sun does (which I guarantee you it will as it always does). They aren't light and don't have the "cool gear" factor, but they are way more affordable (a NRS River Wing is $400) and are more practical if you are not on an ounce-counting adventure. Free standing is the way to go if you are setting up with kids.
for example there are hundreds of options under $100 like https://www.walmart.com/ip/Best-Cho...-Height-Wind-Vent-Carrying-Bag-Blue/265252056

Another option that I have become fond of and would recommend if you care about bulk but still want the quick setup is the massive sportbrellas. They have guylines and are very wind resistant. If you want beach shade they provide complete cover for four people when on their side. And when the sun moves you can move them. Last year on Deso we spent a while setting up the fancy tarp shelter and the sun lowered half an hour later and it provided no shade to the seating/cooking area - we moved everything else because we didn't want to set it up again. If you need instant rain cover, like boating in monsoon season, they are the easiest. We got hit by a monsoon right as we set up the kitchen on the Grand last summer and our group had three of the same 9 foot sunbrellas (coincidence) and managed to create almost complete cover for the work station in minutes. And if you don't have a bimini then you should already have an umbrella stand on your boat and aren't giving up any space by using this option.
https://www.amazon.com/Sport-Brella-BRE01-XL-070-Parent-X-Large-Umbrella/dp/B01M9CHLXE


If you are determined to spend a frustrated 15 minutes setting up a non-freestanding tarp with a bunch of long poles, guy lines everywhere, and stakes that won't stay where you want them, while arguing with Santi and Chris about what angle the oars should be at and how far the lines should go out, there is always the option of the regular ol' big green truck tarps (the good ones). They are bomber, inexpensive, and the one I found in my garage (no idea where it came from) even has little corner pockets that fit oars perfectly. And the eyelets give so many options for tie out arrangements while those fancy pants tarps have pretty limited setup options. And you probably have one in your garage.

If you are a weight weeney or gear junkie ignore everything I said - I love my two pound MSR shelter but I feel like a monster when I tell my five year old I don't want her to help the adults set up shelter while thinking I could already be drinking a (2nd) beer if I had packed a pop up shelter. Also, you could buy all three of the things I suggested for less than the price of a Big Agnes Deep Creek Tarp (which as a gear junkie I do really want). The kids can help (and not be a nuisance) with options 1 and 2. As a river parent you have to get past the cool factor and be practical and budget conscious.

Full disclosure: I am an ounce counter and my backpacking setup tops off at 14 pounds. I got into rafting because sometimes I want the excess luxuries in the wilderness without being weight/space conscious.

If you read this post in its entirety, you will never be able to deal with struggling to set up an expensive ultralight tarp in the sand surrounded by kids without thinking about how nice it would be to have a free standing pop up arrangement.

So help me science, if anyone brings up "Made in China" sh!t I swear I will delete my mountainbuzz profile.


----------



## yesimapirate

How about a carport? Only a measly 60 lbs.

https://www.amazon.com/ShelterLogic...474&s=gateway&sprefix=carport,aps,205&sr=8-19


----------



## almortal

almortal said:


> ... They may be big, but they are stress free if you have a 7 and 9 year old, are weather resilient and easy to move if the sun does (which I guarantee you it will as it always does)...


Correction: the earth spins as it goes around the sun and therefore your relative position to its rays changes. Apologies for the scientific inaccuracy. Flat earthers need not reply.


----------



## SanJuanGuns

We LOVE our Dragonfly Tarp, and Matt is a really good guy, super easy to deal with and quick to respond. High quality gear/company in our book. The tarps are easy to use with oars or trees.... or he sells adjustable posts that you can drive into most grounds to go with the tarps. We just use our oars (2x9’ & 2x8’ ers) with rocks to anchor and trees and it has worked well for us, even in winds. We love our first one so much we talk about purchasing a smaller one to use for quick lunch shade set ups. I have also been on trips where we have used the Kelly Noah and it works great as well. We went with Dragonfly to support a small business and get a USA-made product.


----------



## co_biscuit

*Big Agnes will treat you right*

I too own a Big Agnes Three Forks shelter. Upside? Great customer service. How do I know this? One of the poles bent so badly on its first use that I asked for a replacement and BA delivered no problem. Left it up all day while fishing in Wyoming and it got a mighty windy. While it was still standing when we got back, it was a bit cockeyed. I think the river wing is the best for rafting, but wouldn’t use it for any other purpose. Like someone else said, the perfect multi purpose shade tarp just doesn’t exist.


----------



## MontanaLaz

almortal said:


> Correction: the earth spins as it goes around the sun and therefore your relative position to its rays changes. Apologies for the scientific inaccuracy. Flat earthers need not reply.


Weeeellll, the sun does actually move through the galaxy in an up and down orbit, but that's just nitpicking because it doesn't affect the position of the sun relative to the Earth's surface 

And to be fair, even though I was expressing my disappointment with the BA Three Forks, it is a decent product and BA customer service is great. The product in question simply didn't do what I wanted as well as I wanted. Namely, set up by one person in under ten minutes and stand up to inclement weather. I'll still buy BA gear in the future and I'm keeping my Three Forks, it just isn't going on the river with me anymore.


----------



## Dr.AndyDVM

Whatever you get, get a something dark!! Or get it with a silver lining on one side. UVB rays can go right through nylon tarps. UVB is what makes your skin feel hot in the middle of the day. The darker the color, the less UVB gets through, even if the fabrics are the same. So the same tarp, same fabric, darker color will feel a lot cooler than the lighter colored tarp. 

Buyer beware. Light colored tarps like the Kelty, Big Agnes, etc are not shade tarps. You will feel very little relief from the heat of the sun and will still get sunburned under them. They are rain tarps. 

I own two dark navy blue DragonFlys built by local Idahoan and buzzard Matt Nelson of Arco, Idaho. They are great. I have the 25’x18’ size. By far the best tarp I have seen. Catenary cut, shed the wind and rain. Mine provide excellent shade. But fun fact, he offers them in several colors, get one that is DARK. His standard offering is royal blue, which will beat any of the other grey or yellow tarps by Kelty or BA. But, you are better off getting a darker one like Navy Blue or Purple. 

I used to have a royal blue colored DragonFly. I bought it from Cascade River Gear instead of ordering another navy blue one from Matt like my first DragonFly. I thought it would be fine. I was so wrong. We camp on a beach on the Salmon near Riggins for a week in July every summer. Temps usually run into the 100°s. With both tarps set up side by side, I noticed that the royal let a lot more light through than the navy. It also felt 10-15° hotter under the royal blue DragonFly. In the end, it worked well for rain, but every one crowded under the navy blue tarp when it was sunny. I sold it and ordered another navy blue one from Matt. I’ll attach a pic of both of them side by side. 

Those pop up self supported shades make great kites in the wind I’ve seen 3 fly high one over 50’ in the air. It is super scary when they come down. Luckily, no one got hurt but the tarp was trashed. 

UVB, it’s real.


----------



## sunshine

NRS River Wing is a great option with upgraded sand stakes. Excellent sun and rain protection. Multiple, multiple ways to set it up using just poles provided or adding oars. Takes practice to get it perfect, but worth it. I paid about $275 for mine 9 or 10 years ago, still going strong. I think they cost more now, but good shade can be the difference between a great afternoon and a shitty one with grumpy overheated folks.


----------



## shappattack

athelake said:


> I have been using 12" surplus military stakes from Ebay for several years. You can get 24 shipped for $30. They hold surprisingly well in sand, we even use them for a volleyball net on the Salmon.


I also been using those for about 12 years. They are great. Mine are painted orange so I don't loose them. I also have a bunch of them that are a bit shorter as well. FYI - They sell them at Andy n Bax if anyone is around Portland, OR


----------



## Dr.AndyDVM

Those are the stakes that come with the DragonFly. I haven’t had much luck with them in the salmon or the snake. They’re ok until the afternoon wind storm comes up and then they pull out. 

Truth is, none of the things I’ve tried have worked very well. I’ve tried those orange aluminum sand stakes (tuff stakes). They kind of work if you wet the sand down. So far, large rocks seem to be the best. I’m really interested in the plastic sheet with para cord. That sounds very interesting. Cody, can you tell us where you get the plastic from?


----------



## DarrylH

*Riverwing*

I struggled with the same shade/rain issues - never regretted purchasing the NRS Riverwing - it's worth the investment! 
I added extra aluminum extension poles (Kirkham's in SLC- they're tent specialists) for the side wings - they really expand the usable area underneath - and allow me to adjust the elevation of each guy-point to prevent rain pooling on the tarp.
I'm not a fan of using oars - too heavy, and I hate the extra rig/un-rig and haul to river & back.
I made up a set of 24" aluminum angle stakes that I use for the main anchor lines - they don't pull out. I also use a bunch of the aluminum military surplus stakes mentioned by athelake & shappatack for the other ropes.
Andy - What are the plastic jugs hanging from each of your wing poles? Are they filled with water with pennies inside for fly (insect) control?


----------



## Dr.AndyDVM

Daryl,
They are for ambiance and light. They are these little inflatable solar powered LED lanterns called Luci from an outfit called Mpowered. They have a photovoltaic cell and batteryon top. The ones I got are multi-colored. They each have 6-7 colors. You can pick which color or have them scrolling through all of them. This picture of my wife has a couple glowing red and one blue behind her.


----------



## DarrylH

Dr.AndyDVM said:


> Daryl,
> They are for ambiance and light. They are these little inflatable solar powered LED lanterns called Luci from an outfit called Mpowered. They have a photovoltaic cell and batteryon top. The ones I got are multi-colored. They each have 6-7 colors. You can pick which color or have them scrolling through all of them. This picture of my wife has a couple glowing red and one blue behind her.


Andy - Thanks! Those look like a great idea, and probably provide just enough light around the edges to keep from killing yourself falling over all of the stuff we gear-heads have on the periphery!
I carry several strands of LED string lights to accomplish a similar goal. 
The only thing I don't like about my NRS Riverwing is the skinny paracord guy lines - they're bright orange, but still not very visually discernable. Your strap style lines stand out much better.
Darryl


----------



## jonseim

Best stakes I’ve found are called sst pins, can get them from Kifaru, not cheap. Essentially a long piece of 3/8 or so emt, eyelet stilled through top to get hem out. Never had a set pull out, sst stands for sand, snow, tundra and i use them on the snow and sand for my tipi. Drive them in at a decently shallow angle and they have lots of resistance to the wind. Can be homemade for sure.
https://store.kifaru.net/mobile/snow-sand--tundra-sst-pins-p96.aspx


----------



## peernisse

I go with tarps and cord. I have seen too many expensive shade structures blow away. Cheers!


----------



## caverdan

For cooking in the wind, shade cloth is the way to protect the kitchen. It cuts the wind way down, or put up a couple of layers to be wind free.


----------



## ACheateaux

I use the 90% shade tarps in Baja exclusively. Won’t help with a torrential downpour, but light storms it keeps the rain off. The mesh let’s breeze through so it stays really nice and cool under. I pitch mine so if I needed to I can pull a Noah’s tarp over it for a storm or expand the footprint out.


----------



## okieboater

I found some aluminium angle stock and made some sand stake shade tree mechanic style. they work. I have also used those big orange plastic stakes from box hardware stores, but they take up a lot of space.

I looked at the Kifaru sst pins and they look like EMT pipe with a eye bolt thru the top.
Looks like something a buzzard could do at home.

Any one used the Kifaru version and can give feedback?


----------



## jonseim

I’ve used them for my tipis and shade on beaches for years! They’re great. They do collect some sand/mud but a good soaking gets em clean with some shaking!


----------



## Bobthegreat

Go with the dragonfly tarp. Give Matt a call and he will hook you up. I bought one from him three years ago, and it’s still running strong. Does great in wind,rain, even snow. You can use it with some surplus tent poles if you don’t want to lug oars around. I got the big one, yes it’s expensive, but anything that can keep the kitchen and crew dry is worth every penny. Plus he will custom make it for you. I’ll try and get some pics up. ( my 2 cents)


----------



## Bobthegreat

Here are some pics


----------



## Bobthegreat

Nope I’m not that smart yet


----------



## Daryl

Got one of these cheap sun shades:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0739Z8VGC/ref=cm_sw_em_r_mt_dp_U_qHEGCbH4SP03Z

Used 11' oars with the blades in the sand and the handles would go through rings I made from thermostat wire. 4 guy lines to stakes and it worked great. Almost no weight


----------



## codycleve

I have posted this before but thought i would post it here.. i made these by doing a double wrap of p-cord so that they fit snug on your oar handle.. I uses them on an MSR zing that im happy with.. I think the dragonfly is the best fly out there. I used a big duck on my last trip that was nice but it needs i think 7 oars and is pretty bulky.. 

Sent from my SM-G920V using Mountain Buzz mobile app


----------



## codycleve

Here is another shot... i would do away with the carabeener and tie the ring straight to the fly.. that would do away with a bit of sag that i get.. also i did away with all the p cord tie outs and ordered 15' loop straps from strap works. They are awesome and make tentioning really easy.. the long lines stay attached to the fly and the loop and buckles go in the stake bag. 

Sent from my SM-G920V using Mountain Buzz mobile app


----------



## shappattack

You know what else works great is to just throw a clove hitch in your tie off line over the oar handle, then you don't need a ring or donut and its super easy to untie and/or adjust.


----------



## athelake

Has anyone tried the Nemo Shadowcaster? It's on sale at REI.

https://www.rei.com/rei-garage/product/151702/nemo-shadowcaster-165-tarp-shelter


----------



## Osprey

Nemo makes good stuff, I bet it's pretty good.

I also saw in MSR's new 2019 stuff they revamped the Rendezvous, looks like it might have some kind of sun shielding on the bottom layer now, hard to tell in the pics.


----------



## Dr.AndyDVM

From the picture on REI’s website, it doesn’t look very good. I’ve had an REI tarp that same grey color. The amount of light it blocked was minimal. It was super hot under the shade. And people put up with it for a few minutes until they started sweating and went and looked for shade somewhere else. 

Dark color or thick fabric. Those are the keys to blocking solar radiation. Chemical UPF treatments might make it so you won’t get sunburned but won’t make it feel cooler.


----------



## smhoeher

I've been on trips with and borrowed the old Moss Parawing. There's nothing like them but are hard to find. I would take a used one, in OK condition, over any others. The owner has had two forever and they are still in amazing shape. 
I've been on a few trips where the ghetto solution has been amazing too - tarps from Home Depot, rope, bungees, oars, and tamarisik. Challenge and creativity rules!


----------



## 90Duck

*wy'east designs*

I have a couple of rafting buddies with these bad-boys. They take a whole crew with an engineer supervising to set up, but deep shade and good rain protection with enough coverage for the entire crew. I'm not sure if they are even still available, but they are the real deal when you need group shelter.


----------



## markfortcollins

Big Agnes Deep Creek on the beach in Mexico this Spring break. Worked out really really well. Bought the sand bags from Neso Tents @ $2 each. Very good quality for the price. Took a bit of figuring out the configuration and positioning, but once we got it dialed... each day was a breeze... literally!
Wish I was back on the beach!


----------



## singler3360_2864

Has anyone tried the Neso Gigante? 








Neso Gigante Sunshade | REI Co-op


Large yet lightweight, the portable Neso Gigante sunshade is perfect for your next beach trip or other sunny destination. Stakeless anchors let you use available materials such as sand or rocks.




www.rei.com


----------



## Bobthegreat




----------



## Singler3360

Bobthegreat said:


> View attachment 73254


BobTheGreat, is this the 20’ or 25’ DragonFly tarp? This is the best pic I’ve seen with stuff underneath for scale. Thanks!


----------



## Bobthegreat

That is the 25


----------



## Bobthegreat




----------



## readNrun

I'll add in a vote for dragonfly (dark material but don't pick red). Matt has always stood behind his tarps and was great to work with. Stakes - depends on the what you are going into. My favorite is the MSR toughstake - it's a combo between a stake and a fluke (notice the wire). They're not cheap but they have lasted us years of boating and other times we've needed to set a stake in the sand. I typically bring a mix of stakes, toughstakes and some retired


----------



## Pine

athelake said:


> I have been using 12" surplus military stakes from Ebay for several years. You can get 24 shipped for $30. They hold surprisingly well in sand, we even use them for a volleyball net on the Salmon.


I use the same thing, they are awesome!


----------



## jonseim

May try the army surplus ones, where does one find the msr ones, web search shows a bunch of no longer available?
Thanks


----------



## Ransomed

jonseim said:


> May try the army surplus ones, where does one find the msr ones, web search shows a bunch of no longer available?
> Thanks


Those are some pricey stakes! 

This site shows them, on sale even. I have not purchased from that site...



https://www.mountainsteals.com/product/msr-toughstake-tent-stake_10550450


----------



## MT4Runner

MontanaLaz said:


> It sucks in the wind (fold over and collapse with bent poles sucks), isn't waterproof, worthless if bugs are a concern, yada, yada, yada.


Do the RTV silicone/naphtha coating? At least it could be waterproof.


----------



## readNrun

content deleted [see below]...because you can't delete messages :-(


----------



## readNrun

Ransomed said:


> Those are some pricey stakes!
> 
> This site shows them, on sale even. I have not purchased from that site...
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.mountainsteals.com/product/msr-toughstake-tent-stake_10550450


Yes - they are but I've been using them for the large part of a decade then other than their anodized coating coming off they still have a long life ahead of them. And they can be used as a fluke configuration or just as a standard stake.


----------



## yesimapirate

Pine said:


> I use the same thing, they are awesome!


Do you think the tops of these military stakes would slice thru a rubber mallet while hammering into ground?


----------



## readNrun

yesimapirate said:


> Do you think the tops of these military stakes would slice thru a rubber mallet while hammering into ground?


Rubber mallet or deadblow? Rubber mallet...yes...eventually - deadblow...not that I've found.


----------



## Pine

yesimapirate said:


> Do you think the tops of these military stakes would slice thru a rubber mallet while hammering into ground?


Not sure, it would probably depend on what type of ground you're on.

I carry a small Gerber axe that I use for driving in stakes and splitting firewood.


----------



## Bobthegreat

Everything eventually cuts through the harbor freight dead blows we all seam to use. Especially when it’s cold 🥶.


----------



## readNrun

Bobthegreat said:


> Everything eventually cuts through the harbor freight dead blows we all seam to use. Especially when it’s cold 🥶.


My estwing, although it cost more than other mfgs, has held up incredibly well. Going on 8 or 9 years now of both river and construction use.


----------



## Bobthegreat

Yes, there is something to be said about quality equipment. Estwing is on the list.


----------



## jamesthomas

Yeah, estwing hammers just have that “nice balance” thing going. My favorite is the short handled 4 pound sledge I use with a wedge for splitting wood. Hits SOOO hard.


----------



## Bootboy

As a general rule, strike like with like. Don’t strike aluminum with steel. Steel stakes tend to cut softer striking implements, so a small steel hammer is best for steel stakes. I use a deadblow for anchor stakes.


----------

