# High-Water Owyhee Advice



## shappattack (Jul 17, 2008)

Can Blarnystoner get "too high" 

I talked to Fred today on the phone.


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## Blarneystoner (Mar 23, 2016)

Lol... not in camp. I just heard. Thanks Jason!


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## mania (Oct 21, 2003)

Here is an older thread more discussing widowmaker section which is what I am planning but having a wait and see mentality. as mentioned by blarny some of the snowtel sites in Northern NV are 300-500%.

https://www.mountainbuzz.com/forums/f11/owyhee-high-water-inquiry-96095.html


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## davbaker (Aug 4, 2013)

I was about to post the same question. We are launching Friday - fairly experienced crew but the First time doing the Owyhee. Would hate to bail now but curious at what flows it becomes sketchy


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## shappattack (Jul 17, 2008)

Problem is, "sketchy" is a relative term. We had a glorious time on the upper owyhee at 18K cfs, while a family of 4 ditched all their gear and was rescued at Rustlers Cabin on the lower Owyhee.


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## davbaker (Aug 4, 2013)

shappattack said:


> Problem is, "sketchy" is a relative term. We had a glorious time on the upper owyhee at 18K cfs, while a family of 4 ditched all their gear and was rescued at Rustlers Cabin on the lower Owyhee.


Good point Shap

I shouldn't be so focused on some sort of imaginary line between safe and sketchy - clearly it is relative, and based on experience, familiarity with the river, etc. It's a new river for me so mostly interested in hearing experiences folks have had at higher flows. I know that certain rivers/rapids (like the Slide on the Lower Salmon) certain flows are reached and a rapid changes from a class 2 to a 5. I've done my research on the Lower Owyhee and that doesn't seem to be the case but curious how meaty the rapids get at 6 K, 9K, 12 K???

Dave


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## codycleve (Mar 26, 2012)

The highest i have ran it was 4800. Most features get washed out. The eddy lines do get strong especially in the canyon. There is one feature in there that is not mentioned much and i will do my vest to highlight it here... it is easily avoided but if not or you have a swimmer its game over... 

Image one shows an sat image showing whisteling bird rapid #4.... the box on top right is the area showing the next picture zoomed up.. #1 is a big rock face with an undercut.. really cool to row up to at 700cfs. #2 is the bat cave a must stop at lower flows for sure... #3 is a death sieve.. my next post will show images of these three.. just avoid the left hand side... at number one th current at 4800 will pull a smaller boat right into the wall and pancake it.. if you wash out the right swim right because you are headed for the sieve.. 

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## codycleve (Mar 26, 2012)

Image of the magnetic wall at 700 cfs #1.. great bass fishing at that level

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## codycleve (Mar 26, 2012)

Picture from inside the batcave #2.. i have stopped at 1000 cfs not sure what level it might be hard to stop but i imagine its really high before you cant. Just dont flip a ducky pulling in. 

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## codycleve (Mar 26, 2012)

Picture i got off the internet. #3 the water actually passes through and under the rock where the water runs in on the left corner. at 4800 water is almost running over the rock wall that runs out into the river... that corner turns into a giant whirlpool and stuff that goes in doesnt come out. Has to go 20 some feet before it comes out the other side... easily avoidable but a very scary piece of water. 

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## codycleve (Mar 26, 2012)

I dont think its an issue for bigger boats but keep an eye on your duckys. 

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## Willie 1.5 (Jul 9, 2013)

I've run it at 6500-8000. Class III at that level. It makes all the tough low water rapids easy and the "squeeze" in the canyon is not in effect yet Its fast so it all comes at you pretty quick, stay alert. Worst thing about it, is it is turbulent at those flows, most waves have three faces which makes for wet passengers.


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## shappattack (Jul 17, 2008)

or in other words, when water levels change, conditions change. Getting a little off the rails with the last picture of sub 200 cfs flows. 4800 cfs isn't what I would consider a significant "high" flow by any measure on the lower Owyhee.


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## IDRAFTER (Jan 14, 2013)

I've been down the lower above 10K, and thought it was the easiest flow I've ever done. Don't be asleep at Whistling Bird, and never stop pulling hard in Montgomery, and you'll be fine.


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## codycleve (Mar 26, 2012)

shappattack said:


> or in other words, when water levels change, conditions change. Getting a little off the rails with the last picture of sub 200 cfs flows. 4800 cfs isn't what I would consider a significant "high" flow by any measure on the lower Owyhee.


the last picture was merely to show a feature that is under water and is directly below one of the best stops on the river. purely for visualization of what could be. I agree that 4800 is not high water down there. Every trip i have taken on the owyhee the more water the easier it gets.


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## shappattack (Jul 17, 2008)

Yep, lots of stuff don't look the same at low to high water, for instance Cable Rapid on the Upper Owyhee from on of our trips at flood stage compared to lowish flow. Runable at flood stage, portage at low flow. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2TnkJ8_BmSI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXRb12V_-9k

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOpB-33lNNY


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## crossfox21 (Feb 27, 2010)

We just got off the Lower Owyhee last Wednesday. Levels spiked to almost 7000 due to all the rain/melt on Sunday. It was the easiest float I have had out of the 4 times running it. With higher water, you'll have more options for which path to take. I do agree with Cleve though...be very wary of the left side wall's undercurrents while going through the canyon portion. This is the section between Whistling Bird and Nuisance. I could see a smaller boat or IK having some issues.
Have fun!


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## shappattack (Jul 17, 2008)

Congratulations to those that hit the peak, get some now while you still can. That good snow pack went quick. Reservoir is about 6' below full pool (about 90% full) so there will be a lot of flat water if you are taking out at Leslie and don't have a motor.


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## trbrts (May 25, 2016)

This is what widowmaker looked like last year at around 700cfs.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/SEdXVXrkwB29ShcC6

Here is some more video from that float. Great trip.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/VtjGf5QWyGBfCGYJ7


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## nolichuck (Mar 11, 2010)

We ran the lower Owyhee in May of 2011 and it was running almost 7000 cfs.
We had two 14' Aire cats and had a blast! I hit a whirlpool at the bottom of some huge standing waves which knocked me off my seat but no problems other than that. We were concerned about Montgomery but it was pretty much washed out. The first day it went from 80 degrees to 45 degrees in about an hour. Fortunately we had made it to camp and had our tents set up before the big storm. It stayed real cold for most of the the rest of the trip but any day on the river beats the heck out of a day at work!


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## codycleve (Mar 26, 2012)

trbrts said:


> This is what widowmaker looked like last year at around 700cfs.
> 
> https://photos.app.goo.gl/SEdXVXrkwB29ShcC6
> 
> ...


That first video is nuisance not widowmaker. widowmaker is on the middle owyhee.


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## Skyman (Jun 26, 2006)

So the flow has dropped to 2500 CFS. What is the optimal flow to run Rome to Birch Creek? What is too low? We're thinking of heading up there in a couple of weeks and are hoping there will still be enough flow.


Kyle


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## Keriray (Jul 5, 2013)

So did you go? What was it like? Level?


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## shappattack (Jul 17, 2008)

Skyman said:


> So the flow has dropped to 2500 CFS. What is the optimal flow to run Rome to Birch Creek? What is too low? We're thinking of heading up there in a couple of weeks and are hoping there will still be enough flow.
> Kyle


As posed this question is not answerable. 

What does optimal even mean?

What is too low? - depends on you, and a lot on what boat you are in.

I have heard Sheeple express that below 1500 cfs is not great and below 1000 is a shit show for a standard 14' oar rig.


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## codycleve (Mar 26, 2012)

We have taken full oar rigs down at 700cfs without trouble.. i talked to the state police that checked us on the river and they take 13' rafts down at 450cfs. IK trips can go low low. There is a video with a soar inflatable at 215cfs that looks like a ton of fun... 

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## shappattack (Jul 17, 2008)

codycleve said:


> there is a video with a soar inflatable at 215cfs that looks like a ton of fun..


Yeah, but they edited out the part where they flipped in the lead into Whistling bird and the woman up front swam through sieve at the top end and is very luck to be alive. 

If the state cops told you they run it at 450 cfs in 13' rafts they are bull shitting you. They have to wright some tickets and there ain't anyone to give tickets to when its that low.


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## codycleve (Mar 26, 2012)

shappattack said:


> Yeah, but they edited out the part where they flipped in the lead into Whistling bird and the woman up front swam through sieve at the top end and is very luck to be alive.
> 
> If the state cops told you they run it at 450 cfs in 13' rafts they are bull shitting you. They have to wright some tickets and there ain't anyone to give tickets to when its that low.


The low flow still looks like a lot of fun. and if your not running it in an ik at low flow because of whistling bird that is crazy. that would be the easiest portage in the canyon. 5 minutes max. 

The state cops might be full of shit but the BLM boat that we talked to through out very similar numbers..


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## shappattack (Jul 17, 2008)

Speaking from experience having boated the Lower Owyhee at 700 cfs (Rome to Birch) and in the 450 cfs range (Rome to Leslie), with no issues, these two flows are pretty different. Below about 500 cfs there are a whole bunch of sticky boulder gardens that pop up (particularly in the first 20 miles) that are pretty non existent at 700 cfs. On both trips we ran into some other groups having significant issues. I would not recommend either of these flows unless you like boating off the top at Boundary Creek on the MF Salmon in late August with a 14' foot oar rig, and like real bony rapids with significant pin/wrap potential. Just because I didn't have any problems doesn't mean I am going to recommend either one of these flows for someone I don't know anything about. I really dig low water bony runs and would like to think I am pretty good at it. Your experience may be drastically different. 

Every single low water Owyhee trip I have been on that was sub 1200 cfs there has been a boat that pinned badly in Nuisance Rapid (not part of our group though). 

The bottom line, whatever you think a minimum flow is for any given river, someone has probably gone lower. Does that mean its a good flow for your skills and your boat, only you can evaluate that.


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## Skyman (Jun 26, 2006)

shappattack said:


> Speaking from experience having boated the Lower Owyhee at 700 cfs (Rome to Birch) and in the 450 cfs range (Rome to Leslie), with no issues, these two flows are pretty different. Below about 500 cfs there are a whole bunch of sticky boulder gardens that pop up (particularly in the first 20 miles) that are pretty non existent at 700 cfs. On both trips we ran into some other groups having significant issues. I would not recommend either of these flows unless you like boating off the top at Boundary Creek on the MF Salmon in late August with a 14' foot oar rig, and like real bony rapids with significant pin/wrap potential. Just because I didn't have any problems doesn't mean I am going to recommend either one of these flows for someone I don't know anything about. I really dig low water bony runs and would like to think I am pretty good at it. Your experience may be drastically different.
> 
> Every single low water Owyhee trip I have been on that was sub 1200 cfs there has been a boat that pinned badly in Nuisance Rapid (not part of our group though).
> 
> The bottom line, whatever you think a minimum flow is for any given river, someone has probably gone lower. Does that mean its a good flow for your skills and your boat, only you can evaluate that.



Thanks Shapp. I've run the MF from Boundary with a fully loaded 156R at 1.7ft with no issues. I'll take this into consideration. Hopefully there will still be some flow in a couple of weeks.


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