# Middle Fork Salmon late August



## Shae (Feb 23, 2019)

Brand new member here and my first post. Wondering if we are asking for trouble attempting this adventure. A buddy and I received a non-commercial permit for the Middle Fork starting August 24th. Neither one of us (both in our mid-60's) have been on western rivers. Mostly flatwater canoeing and kayaking here in New Hampshire. I have calls into outfitters in Stanley, ID in order to figure out the logistics and options with no return calls from them at this point. Can anyone fill me in on if we are in way over our head both in our lack of experience and the logistics involved in making this happen. Can we rent kayaks and necessary gear from outfitters in Stanley or elsewhere and are the kayaks such that we can carry a week's worth of food and camping gear? Can we arrange transportation from Stanley (or from someplace else) to Boundary Creek? And return transportation from Cache Bar back to Stanley? Is the stretch from Boundary Creek to Indian Creek too tough to tackle in low water for inexperienced boaters? Any info is welcome from someone looking for a starting point. Thanks.


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## shappattack (Jul 17, 2008)

This is either troll, or else you just wasted a permit that someone else could have actually used. If not a troll, you have no business on this trip with your skill set. Decline the permit, so someone else can use it. But I am betting this is a troll - Canyon James perhaps?


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## SherpaDave (Dec 28, 2017)

If you have to ask the answer is clearly No.


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## shappattack (Jul 17, 2008)

This is one of the greatest trolls mt buzz has seen in a long time. Love it! excellent effort. Though it is so over the top no one is going to fall for it.


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## wildh2onriver (Jul 21, 2009)

It’s really not too bad. I mean if I can get down it in a fully loaded 18’ cat at 1.5” with 2 passengers, you’ll be fine.


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## JakeH (Nov 1, 2003)

I’ll bite. If this is a troll well played. If this is real congratulations on winning a coveted permit. It took me 20 years of applying. 

Get a guide book:
https://www.downriverequip.com/more...e-fork-of-the-salmon-river-liedecker-pid-1703

You can rent gear from Blackadar who I have used on multiple trips and they are excellent. They can also help with shuttle:
Blackadar Boating

My crew usually uses Boise as a base of operations and uses Caldwell Transportation for shuttle:
https://www.ctcbus.com

I had a very good friend who is an excellent boatman try to take a group of inexperienced boaters down last Aug and it was a sh!# show. By Aug flows should be low but passable. Keep an eye on snowpack. You may want to fly into Indian Creek which will help with low water passage. 

I would invite experienced boaters on your trip to help you with logistics and row boats. I am sure there are plenty on this board who would love to help you. Or DM me and I’ll try to connect you with some folks who might be interested. If you plan on rowing your own boat, invest in learning and get experience and a Z drag kit. It is a very technical River at low flows. 

If you are an experienced kayaker and are comfortable with multi day self support, you should be fine in small boats. Read the regs to make sure you have the required gear. In my humble opinion from a kayaker standpoint in Aug, there isn’t anything too hairy. I’d say competent class IV boater and you’ll be good to go. 

Be prepared for multiple camp options as there is a selection process pre launch. 

Good luck and have a safe and fun trip. The outfitters are seasonal and probably not returning calls as fast as summertime.


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## Shae (Feb 23, 2019)

My apologies for those who think my OP is/was a troll. We were encouraged to apply and are now trying to gather info so that if it's not going to work out, we can release the permit by March 15th. It appears that those encouraging us to apply (those with the NFS and US Fish & Wildlife) were not aware of our experience or lack thereof. We are experienced with multi-day, long distance hiking and have the appropriate gear. But it does appear that we should have contracted with an outfitter. Thanks again.


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## griz (Sep 19, 2005)

Look into buying some tandem inflatable kayaks and fly into Indian Creek. Cutting out the top, rather technical,low, low water section will make your life allot easier. MFS is no joke top to bottom but definitely easier from Indian Creek down.

Up until then... get after it. I went from an raft noob with ww kayaking experience to rowing a August MFS trip in less time, a long time ago. It can be done.


Lots of low water Youtube vids to watch and see if it’s your tea or not, too.

If not, post up on the buzz when you cancel to give the cubicle monkeys here a shot at picking it up.


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## NativeDiver (Jun 7, 2017)

My understanding if this permit is returned by the lottery winner, recreation.gov will not put it out to picked up in the free for all- too late in the year and a fish might get stepped on.


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## codycleve (Mar 26, 2012)

NativeDiver said:


> My understanding if this permit is returned by the lottery winner, recreation.gov will not put it out to picked up in the free for all- too late in the year and a fish might get stepped on.


This is only true if he cancled after march 15th.. if he cancels before that it will be reissued to someone. 

Sent from my SM-G920V using Mountain Buzz mobile app


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## SherpaDave (Dec 28, 2017)

shappattack said:


> This is one of the greatest trolls mt buzz has seen in a long time. Love it! excellent effort. Though it is so over the top no one is going to fall for it.




It’s only missing the Nigerian Prince who applied on their behalf.


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## shappattack (Jul 17, 2008)

"It appears that those encouraging us to apply (those with the NFS and US Fish & Wildlife) were not aware of our experience or lack thereof."

No experience and urged to apply by the fisheries management agencies that want all the permits to be canceled and not re-issued during late summer. Oh Shit, now you know its an over the top troll!  


Though I think there was a typo in the Trolls statement that should have read "NMFS and U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service". NMFS is the agency that wants to eliminate boating use during August and September and mandated that the Forest Service implement the rule to not re-issue canceled permits from Aug 15 to Sept 15.


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## fdon (Jul 23, 2008)

Shae,
You are new around here but welcome. Check your Private Messages please.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

Or consider inviting some experienced people and put a small group together. You have the permit they want, they have the experience you need.

(Not talking about slamming 20 people onto your permit..but maybe 1-2 rafts and another 4 people). 

And there are plenty of experienced 60-somethings who would likely be a great fit for you and your friend.


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## Shae (Feb 23, 2019)

MT4Runner said:


> Or consider inviting some experienced people and put a small group together. You have the permit they want, they have the experience you need.
> 
> (Not talking about slamming 20 people onto your permit..but maybe 1-2 rafts and another 4 people).
> 
> And there are plenty of experienced 60-somethings who would likely be a great fit for you and your friend.



Much appreciated. We are definitely looking at doing exactly that (putting a group of experienced 60-somethings together.) Lots of great suggestions on this forum and also in private messages. I'm meeting with my buddy today to put these suggestions together and keep moving forward.


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## Chunkylover53 (Feb 6, 2019)

Rent a 16' raft, pack light, and give yourselves 8 days. Launch from Boundary Creek and prepare for some dragging/hangups until Indian Creek and you'll be fine. As my grandpappy used to say, Go Big or go Home!


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## DLTooley (May 11, 2009)

It is not impossible, but I'd say no. The low water is relatively safe but also technically demanding. The risk of compounding problems on a 7 day wilderness trip is high. If a sat phone and a helicopter rescue is in your budget you might as well go with an outfitter. An outfitter might also support your own craft. 

If you are in very good physical condition you could be ready to go by August. There are long standing kayak programs on the Rogue that combine instruction with a four day wilderness trip conclusion.


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