# Eagle County Boaters - heads up>>>



## El Flaco (Nov 5, 2003)

*Somebody had better reach out to this guy ASAP.*

9NEWS.com | Sheriff mulls boating ban after multiple river rescues

VAIL (AP) - A slew of rescues on the Eagle River had Eagle County Sheriff Joseph Hoy mulling this week whether to enact a boating ban as the river swells with snowmelt. OAS_AD('ArticleFlex_1'); 
National Weather Service meteorologist Jeff Colton says mountain rivers are at their highest levels in 10 years, though the Eagle River should start receding by mid-June. 
Sheriff's office spokeswoman Shannon Cordingly says a boating ban isn't something Hoy wants but that he will enact one if the office keeps getting rescue calls. 
On Monday, 19 rafters were rescued after three commercial crafts capsized near the Eagle County Fairgrounds. Two weeks earlier, rescuers helped two women and their dogs after their raft had trouble in the same rapid. Everyone was OK.


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## liquidchaos (Jul 11, 2005)

attempts have been made to disueade him. it is a slow painfull process to even talk to him. I dont think he will go through with it, if you ask me. I will be the firs tone to float it when he does though. 
P.S. all rescue efforts underneath him are volunteer... interesting.


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## Caspian (Oct 14, 2003)

He cannot do it under state law - law enforcement has the power to close a river to non-boating recreation only. They can ban tubing and swimming, but not kayaking or canoeing if I recall the statute correctly.


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## Porkchop (Sep 19, 2007)

While I seriously doubt the river will be closed (too many paying customers). Nobody has brought the fact up that this raft flipping hydraulic is man made, and was placed below the take out of a poplar class II-III run. Maybe Eagle County should pay attention to people changing their rivers for irrigation and make sure it doesn't conflict with those using it for recreation


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## stumpster (Jul 23, 2006)

Ya!


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## Targos_2 (Apr 9, 2008)

Amen Pork Chop!


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## Full_Tilt (May 3, 2004)

or why don't you argue on the premise that a sheriff cannot close a federal navigable water way , it may be something american whitewater could look into if they do.


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## Dahlia (May 21, 2008)

Cheyenne posted the statue last week when this came up. 

If I'm reading it correctly the Sheriff does have the authority to close the river to kayaks and rafts if he deems it to be "hazard to human life or safety". But then again when is a river not a hazard to human life or safety?

I think that they should stress the use of caution and only those who are advanced and confident in their skills should use the river at this time. Although who am I to talk, I'm just the woman who needed to be rescued a few weeks ago. I just started the rescue season off. 

This is statue he posted in this thread:

http://www.mountainbuzz.com/forums/f11/county-sheriff-vs-raft-cos-on-cbs-4-a-19247.html

There is a Colorado State statue that limits when an agency can close a river to kayaks and multi-chamber rafts.

Quote:
Colorado Statutes : TITLE 33 WILDLIFE AND PARKS AND OUTDOOR RECREATION : PARKS AND OUTDOOR RECREATION : ARTICLE 13 VESSELS : 33-13-111. Authority to close waters.

33-13-111. Authority to close waters.
Statute text

(1) (a) The board shall promulgate rules to prohibit the operation of vessels on any waters of the state and ordering the removal of vessels from any waters of the state when such operation constitutes or may constitute a hazard to human life or safety.

(b) For purposes of this subsection (1), "vessels" shall not include whitewater canoes and kayaks except in the case of:

(I) A state of disaster emergency pursuant to section 24-32-2104 or 24-32-2109, C.R.S.;

(II) Disaster relief efforts that are underway and that may include debris removal;

(III) An accident or other emergency that occurs in or immediately adjacent to the water body;

(IV) Rescue efforts for victims that are actively underway and such efforts would be hindered by additional waterway traffic; or

(V) Active construction or transportation projects authorized under state or federal law.

(2) Any parks and recreation officer or other peace officer as defined in section 33-10-102 has the authority to enforce the provisions of this section under the rules promulgated by the board.

(3) Any person who fails to obey an order issued under this section is guilty of a class 2 petty offense and, upon conviction, shall be punished by a fine of one hundred dollars.
History

Source: L. 84: Entire article added, p. 904, § 2, effective January 1, 1985. L. 95: (3) amended, p. 973, § 22, effective July 1. L. 2003: (1) and (3) amended, p. 1948, § 24, effective May 22.
Annotations

ANNOTATION
Annotations

Am. Jur.2d. See 12 Am. Jur.2d, Boats and Boating, § 6.

Applied in People v. Boyd, 642 P.2d 1 (Colo. 1982).


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## tboe101 (May 10, 2005)

Punish the guilty, not the innocent. Why not ban the comercial company who flipped three boats in Rodeo rapid. There was a serious breakdown in operating procedures if a woman hung on to a raft all the way to Gypsum. Where were their safety people with throwbags? Where were their drivers? If you're running people over a class IV drop in HIGH water where were safety kayakers? It was a shitty rapid before but now the county has really created a hazzard.


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## Mad_Hatter (Jul 13, 2007)

tboe101 said:


> Punish the guilty, not the innocent. Why not ban the comercial company who flipped three boats in Rodeo rapid. There was a serious breakdown in operating procedures .....


Whoa! Though I agree that there were poor choices made in running rodeo while the river was running highER, I would not say that an outfitter should be punished for the outcome on an isolated incident.....spend a day on the Ark while the water is up and this may seem less of a headline story. Unfortunately the media was there and painted a bad picture....did not help that the lady decided to extend her trip to Gypsum.

I do think the sheriff is over reacting about this...and I am sure he is getting pressure from some select individuals. Personally I think the Valley tends to over react to anything that happens out of the normal daily routine. I hear of hotel staff swaying folks about rafting as if this is the most dangerous thing out there.
Hopefully this will pass like the reaction everyone had after the "Edwards Incident" everyone remember that commentary barrage....folks falling in and swimming a short distance in shoshone....oh the horror...the madness.

Well this hopefully will be my last commentary on this topic....

Warm spell on its way...get out there and enjoy it everyone.


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## hobie (Nov 3, 2003)

Please, it is pronounced "Git-sum" not Gypsum. And whats wrong with a nice solo raft trip to the drywall factory? 

hobie

As for the river closure, shut er' down. Im still going. Paddlers just need to use sense and be honest with thier abilities.


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## Randaddy (Jun 8, 2007)

They should close down Gore Canyon, Pine Creek, the Narrows on the Poudre, and all the class 5 in the state. People have taken some swims in Brown's canyon this year. Gonna have to close that. These places are all very dangerous and should be illegal to raft or kayak! 

What else? Oh Seidel's Suckhole flips boats sometimes. Shut it down!


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## UserName (Sep 7, 2007)

A sherriff trying to ban private boaters is a really large bag of worms to open. I believe Eagle county tried this many years ago on Gore Creek maybe and it didn't go very well or very far. 

However commercial operations is a different matter. There are other ways to skin a cat with a commercial operation than with just an outright ban... The Arkansas river for example has some 'high water' limits in place on both The Numbers and the Royal Gorge. The way it is written I believe is as 'an agreement' with the outfitters not to run above certain levels, and I believe these agreements were written with the outfitters. 

One simple solution for the Lower Eagle is to take out at chambers park. A longer term solution would be to alter this river feature. There may be some legislation in place to support this already, however actually getting this type of thing done is another matter. Wouldn't it be cool to take this feature and make it into a river park, more features, friendlier features, benefit boaters, fishermen, etc... take a load off of the sherriffs mind... 

Bear in mind the Sherriff has some very real concerns here that he probably dosen't have a lot of experience dealing with. He could probably use some useful and constructive input from the boating community.


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## Dahlia (May 21, 2008)

Actually, I think I mis-read that statue. In the sub-sections, it says EXCEPT kayaks and whitewater canoes. I'm not a lawyer, can anyone confirm how this statue is read?

LiquidChaos (or anyone on SAR)(also again thanks for all you guys did to help me when I needed it!), I think you have a good point that you all are volunteers, so all these calls are not co$ting as much as eluded to, but it is costing time and resources. But I'm sure you and all the others are exhausted by all these. From your point of view are most of these calls ones that you should have been called or not? Maybe you are not allowed to say. Have most been people who have experience or are most newbies and tourists?

I think that there probably is more pressure on the powers that be from outside sources because of the media. I don't think that the flipped rafts with 19 swimmers would have gotten nearly as much attention had there not been 3 deaths on rivers in the days before. Well aside from the 5-6 mile swimmer, this is still bothersome that someone didn't have the common sense to get out out of the freakin! river once they realized NO ONE else was around!

I think the media is missing the boat (so to speak) by emphasizing the drama, instead of what people should be doing to stay safer - life jackets, pay attention to how the river changes in high water, SELF RESCUE, and skill level, ect.

Really, we should be sending emails to the news stations & papers asking them to cover the safety precautions the general public should take. Also they should be talking about how many people are safely using the rivers and show some of you guys alive and well enjoying the high water with all the proper gear and skill. Pointing out what is being done right and emphasizing that it is a sport - there are risks and skill needed especially at these water levels. They should stress if you don't have certain skills, health issues, or proper equipment think long and hard about going on the rivers right now. But ultimately shit happens on a river, thats a part of the the sport and the challenge.


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## brendodendo (Jul 18, 2004)

I talked with some Eagle Co SAR volunteers at the Teva games the other day. They had to stop a sheriff from entering the water to retrieve random gear. He was dressed in his service uniform and had on his police issue utility belt. He was not wearing a life jacket or any white water gear.

I tend to believe that the sheriff is looking out for his boys with a closure. Right or wrong, It is up to us to help educate people on the river. If we see people doing stupid things, we need to let them know. This includes the general public in and around the river, police officers, commercial raft guides and other boaters.

Do the powers that be mandate swift water for peace officers or only firefighter and SAR personnel?


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## Cheyenne (Oct 14, 2003)

I'm not a lawyer...

but my reading of the statute is that a river can be closed to kayakers only for the following:

(I) A state of disaster emergency pursuant to section 24-32-2104 or 24-32-2109, C.R.S.;

(II) Disaster relief efforts that are underway and that may include debris removal;

(III) An accident or other emergency that occurs in or immediately adjacent to the water body;

(IV) Rescue efforts for victims that are actively underway and such efforts would be hindered by additional waterway traffic; or

(V) Active construction or transportation projects authorized under state or federal law.


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## yak1 (Jan 28, 2006)

A little history lesson. Back in the day when you had a choice of three plastic boats it was a favorite spring pass time for the sheriffs to close the rivers to all use during the run off. This practice came to a screeching halt when some Eagle county boaters who were attorneys called up the sheriff and said we're putting in here and were taking in out here. They were issued summons and it went to court. Judge William Jones declared that the sheriff did not have the knowledge base or skill sets to judge the river skills of white water boaters and it was the boaters constitutional right to go out and do stupid stuff. Thus the law that is now in effect came about. So if he does close the river feel free to take one for the team. By the way a declared disaster can only come from the governors office or a federal level for an act of terrorism. So I suppose you could have Vail arrested for their plot to capture all the snow in central Colorado by cloud seeding and then turning it all liquid in a bid to take over the planet.... well maybe


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## liquidchaos (Jul 11, 2005)

Rumor has it, the sherrif has had a lesson in history and the river will remain 'open'. unless there is another series of unfortanate curcumstances there should not be any more issues with this. I heart eagle county


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## Porkchop (Sep 19, 2007)

Can anybody tell me if these yahoos were actually trying to run the rodeo rapid or did they just miss the takout??? And I know its been said before but wouldn't it be swell if we we had a little play park down valley.... There are more and more boaters living down here and I've heard some of them have connections and even this one guy was in a kayak video. Come on down valley boaters lets make it happen, if avon, vail and glenwood why not us?:-D


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## randomnature (Jun 10, 2007)

*More on GIT-sum*

From the highway, there looks to be a river wide wave in Gypsym just before the exit. Has anyone tried boating it?


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## Jwss (May 21, 2008)

My understanding is that the sheriff understands he cannot shut the river to kayaks and canoests, but the law or whatever it is does not say anything about rafts. This could be the loop whole that the sheriff could use to shut it down to rafters both commercial and private. The "LAW" might need to be ammended to include rafts. Common sense would dictate that rafts be included with kayaks and canoes, but this is a government entity that we are talking about. Why is it that completely inexperienced people think they have the knowledge to "protect" the boating community?? Typical government thinking...if it makes more work for us then shut it down, using the guise of safety and concern for us but really they just want to push us aside and get us "out of there hair." The access issue at the Big T takeout reeks from the same foul government stinch...Laziness. Pull Your heads out of your asses, City, County and federal governments, the boating community is here to stay!!!


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## thogan (Jan 25, 2005)

randomnature said:


> From the highway, there looks to be a river wide wave in Gypsym just before the exit. Has anyone tried boating it?


Isnt that little sur. From CRC II


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## UserName (Sep 7, 2007)

I don't think the so called "ban" threat was ever pointed at anyone but commercial rafting.

From the Denver Post: 

"The ban would not affect single-paddler canoes or kayaks, which are protected by state law — with some exceptions — from safety-oriented bans. It would prohibit commercial boating on the river, which supports a healthy stable of rafting companies."
Sheriff may ban boating on swollen Eagle River - The Denver Post

A mute issue as Peak Flow seems to have passed.


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## liquidchaos (Jul 11, 2005)

thogan said:


> Isnt that little sur. From CRC II


 I actually ran that the other day, wasnt planning on it, and I had an empty raft in tow. But it looked great, some good green, and a foampile. it didnt look like there was any eddy sercive though. to access it is an easy 2-3min walk from the git sum ponds. Give it a shot and let us know how it is!


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## cokayakn (Feb 26, 2007)

*Little sir?...*



thogan said:


> Isnt that little sur. From CRC II


That thang got eddy service? 

I seen it from 70 and figgered it might be nice too.

Might be nice to hit it and float on down to the new river-estaurante' there at the bridge for a marg.

PS - Sherrif Joe is a good man. Let him posture is needed to appease the public but, he'll do the right thing.

PSS - Ran from Wolcott down to rodeo on Sunday. What a beautiful under-rated section. sshhhh.

chris


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## t_boyd (Jun 11, 2008)

*Can't close it to us*

That boyd dude in "People vs Boyd" is my dad, and he's not much of an internet guy, but he wants everyone to know he got himself arrested and went to Colorado Supreme Court to make sure that no one can close the river to kayakers and canoers. 
We're all good,
tb



Dahlia said:


> Cheyenne posted the statue last week when this came up.
> 
> If I'm reading it correctly the Sheriff does have the authority to close the river to kayaks and rafts if he deems it to be "hazard to human life or safety". But then again when is a river not a hazard to human life or safety?
> 
> ...


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## Dahlia (May 21, 2008)

Cool. Be sure to THANK your dad for all of us!!!


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## liquidchaos (Jul 11, 2005)

thanks for the post Tommy, I hope to see you out there soon! be sure to thank your dad, and know that is the river is ever closed you will be one of the first calls I make to join us for a float. 

coyakin, the lower eagle is a great section, tons of fun and it doesnt see much action. Get it while its good.


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## blurredelevens (Jun 23, 2005)

Great!
Some fat donut chomping out-of-shape self important ignoramus is going to
say what is good for me. 

That's AWESOME. No wonder cops are so well thought of!

Police state=AWESOME!


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## SummitAP (Jun 23, 2007)

Thanks to your dad T Boyd!



cokayakn said:


> PS - Sherrif Joe is a good man. Let him posture is needed to appease the public but, he'll do the right thing.


A noteworthy point


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## rwhyman (May 23, 2005)

I am a very good friend of Sheriff Joe's brother (we were roomies back in the 70's in Steamboat) and I have met Sheriff Joe on several occasions and I can assure you that your description of him is way off base.
He is actually a very nice guy and the whole Hoy family is very much into outdoor activities.
So I wouldn't get my panties all up in a wad on media hearsay. You know the media, they will say whatever will sell or whatever they can do to get you to watch their news show.




blurredelevens said:


> Great!
> Some fat donut chomping out-of-shape self important ignoramus is going to
> say what is good for me.
> 
> ...


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## WhiteLightning (Apr 21, 2004)

I've heard he's a decent guy, and pretty reasonable, too.

I heard that Rodeo rapid was "redesigned" so someone can divert more water out of the river. I also heard that it was to make it more safe for boating, etc. Anyone know what the deal is/was? It used to just be a big hole, like the Eagle's version of Sidels but easy to skirt the meat. Now at high water there are some big ass breaking waves,and wave-holes and a sticky looking hole on the bottom left. The raft line options didn't look great at high water when I was looking at it at (what is hopefully only the first) peak water days.


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## blurredelevens (Jun 23, 2005)

rwhyman said:


> I am a very good friend of Sheriff Joe's brother (we were roomies back in the 70's in Steamboat) and I have met Sheriff Joe on several occasions and I can assure you that your description of him is way off base.
> He is actually a very nice guy and the whole Hoy family is very much into outdoor activities.
> So I wouldn't get my panties all up in a wad on media hearsay. You know the media, they will say whatever will sell or whatever they can do to get you to watch their news show.


Yeah, I have to agree that the media is usually way off....but for this to even be a consideration is akin to having the police say I can't ski a certain BC area because some gapers got caught in a slide there.

Don't mind me, I just have an issue with authority figures. :mrgreen:


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