# Oct 1 grand launches at risk



## mania

Government shutdown means no launches FYI.

10 ways a government shutdown would affect your daily life - CNN.com


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## captishmael

So if the Gov't will not pay to have an official there to check you in, will they pay to have someone there to make sure you do not get checked in?


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## mania

captishmael said:


> So if the Gov't will not pay to have an official there to check you in, will they pay to have someone there to make sure you do not get checked in?


Yes apparently.


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## JonasJ

Probably nothing but a sign. Probably reading something like; recreation trips prohibited beyond this point dangerous waters lay ahead, due to flooding in Colorado area closed to recreation.


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## Ranco

typical. I'm sure it doesn't cost any more to check people in then it does to keep people out.


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## David L

I read in more than a few places that years ago, in the same shutdown situation, there was a chain across the Ferry road and someone patroled there to enforce it. 

I can't say if that was true or not, or if it's a rumor that has kept on.....rumoring.


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## B4otter

Call the River Unit and ask: (520) 638-7843, or at least that`s the last / I have for them...


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## David Miller

Once in a lifetime chance to crash the gate!


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## studytime

So if you launch the 30th then you won't have to deal with any rangers on the river?


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## David Miller

Like to try the rappel from Navajo Bridge!


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## TriBri1

During the 1995 shutdown, the gates were closed at the national parks with someone sitting at the gate. At least that is how Joshua Tree was, I am sure they would do the same at Lees Ferry.


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## mania

studytime said:


> So if you launch the 30th then you won't have to deal with any rangers on the river?


You are good to go on the 30th. Oct 1 is gates locked and patrolled if there is a shutdown. the way congress takes their ball and goes home you know there is likely to be one. this goes for those people on cataract and anywhere else with a federal permit system.


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## tmacc

So, if you rig on the 30th and are at the boater's camp, what happens on the 1st. You're in there already. Hopefully, it won't happen. Our neighbor has a 10/1 launch date.


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## goldcamp

I can't imagine how devastating it would be to plan for years, spend countless hours in preparation, and plenty of money to be told at the last minute that your trip is cancelled. I postponed having children to make my Grand permit happen. I might respond like this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtyrDZG-eDo


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## CBrown

goldcamp said:


> I can't imagine how devastating it would be to plan for years, spend countless hours in preparation, and plenty of money to be told at the last minute that your trip is cancelled. I postponed having children to make my Grand permit happen. I might respond like this
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtyrDZG-eDo


Like.


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## Pro Leisure

mania said:


> You are good to go on the 30th. Oct 1 is gates locked and patrolled if there is a shutdown. the way congress takes their ball and goes home you know there is likely to be one. this goes for those people on cataract and anywhere else with a federal permit system.


Pretty sure cat would be good to go, if you even see a ranger he's only there to check up on you.


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## fella

*Same ole' S#1T*

Same standoff two years ago over the debt ceiling. I'm predicting same resolution.

These pathetic POS's in Washington are going to push it to the brink, but there will be no shut down.

The Repubs, even Cruz, know that a shutdown will hurt them more than the democrats, so I'm predicting Boehner and friends won't let it happen.

So, don't give up on your Oct. 1 Grand trip.... My 2 cents.


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## DoStep

Ya, go to Lee's ferry as planned, you already have the time scheduled anyway. Worst case is a nice roadtrip through the four corners region in fall, not a bad excursion in itself. 

I too think the bluff will pass as it did last time. Those congressional bastards have no idea how their ridiculous bipartisan bickering can affect us regular VOTING folk. Pay attention to who is blocking progress and for what reasons, and vote accordingly. This tripe wouldn't be happening if it were an election year.


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## Unordinary

*Phone call to Rangers*

Just got off the phone with Ranger at River Office. Not allowed to make any official announcements until shut down is official...

If gov shut down Lees Ferry will be gated and closed, no scheduled launches allowed.
The people who are down there today maybe able to launch tomorrow, (if rangers look the other way,or they may be asked to leave if someone takes a hard line).
No plans to allow any rangers to volunteer their time to check people in.
No plans for rescheduling launches if gov. is shut sown is still on during your launch date.

How sad is all of this???


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## Tom Martin

Hi all, the following is in other forums, yours, tom

RRFW Riverwire - Lee’s Ferry to Close if Government Shuts Down
September 30, 2013

As a United States Government shutdown looms large, plans are now in place to close all National Parks across the country on October 1, 2013. The closures will impact all recreational opportunities at Lee’s Ferry, Arizona, including the cancellation of all river trips.

According to Grand Canyon National Park officials, river runners who have already launched downstream into Grand Canyon National Park will be able to complete their river trip. Glen Canyon National Recreation Area officials, who operate Lee’s Ferry, note that should the government shutdown go into effect, the closure of Lee’s Ferry will start with a “soft closure” beginning at 8:00 am, with a hard closure from noon on, after which no river trips will be allowed to launch.

Kansas river runner Hilary Esry won the river permit lottery last year for an October 7, 2013 launch date after first becoming interested in running Grand Canyon twenty years ago. “We have friends flying in from as far away as Alaska on non-refundable tickets and have spent over $17,000 so far in NPS fees, food and equipment rental. I have a contract with the Federal Government allowing me to launch, and so far, I have not been contacted from the National Park Service at all about a pending closure of the Colorado River in Grand Canyon” she said. “We expect to be on our own and except for the mandatory orientation at Lee’s Ferry, we do not expect to interface with anyone from the NPS. I can’t tell you how nerve wracking this is for our trip.”

The Grand Canyon National Park web site states there are sixteen river trips scheduled to launch in the first seven days of October. Thirteen of those trips are public trips while three are concession guided river trips. There are sixty-one river trips scheduled for the month of October, twelve of which are concessions trips and forty-nine are public trips.

Officials at Glen Canyon National Recreation Area also stated roadwork on the Lee’s Ferry road will continue, as the funds for that project are non-appropriated funds. River runners who have parked their vehicles at the long term parking lot at Lee’s Ferry will be allowed to retrieve their vehicles but this will require a law enforcement escort.

Fishing at Lee’s Ferry, including from the bank and by boat, both public and guided, will not be allowed. The smooth water concessions river trips from the base of Glen Canyon Dam downstream to Lee’s Ferry will also cease operation. 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~
 RIVERWIRE is a free service to the community of river lovers from River Runners for Wilderness. To join, send an e-mail address to [email protected] and we'll add it to the RRFW RIVERWIRE e-mail alerts list. 

Join RRFW's listserver to stay abreast of and participate in the latest river issues. It's as easy as sending a blank e-mail to [email protected]

Check out RRFW's Rafting Grand Canyon Wiki for free information on Do-It-Yourself Grand Canyon rafting info http://www.rrfw.org/RaftingGrandCanyon/Main_Page

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Visit us on Facebook at http://www.facebook.com/RRFW.org and https://www.facebook.com/groups/raftgc/
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~


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## PARKER

Shut Down. Fuck. Now what to do with 3 weeks of free time? Guess I could just go to work.


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## Tom Martin

This sucks. Go to visit with your congressional rep's staff and explain your situation. Ask for assistance with getting another launch date out and or refund of the NPS!


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## smauk2

PARKER said:


> Shut Down. Fuck. Now what to do with 3 weeks of free time? Guess I could just go to work.


I can't imagine! I have a launch date on the 26th and I really can't imagine what it would feel like to have that taken away. I've already put about 600 dollars into the trip and have taken the time off of work. The cost of this is ridiculous, but losing the experience would be the worse part.

I'm really sorry, complete bullshit.


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## PARKER

Hopefully they get thier shit together for your launch. Looks like we'll be trying salvage the trip w a big group ride in the desert...


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## 2tomcat2

Superintendent David V. Uberuaga
Grand Canyon NP
P.O. Box 129
Grand Canyon, AZ 86023


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## JHMainer

My group has a launch date on the 12th, after last night I am losing faith that will happen after having the permit for over a year and a half.


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## mania

2tomcat2 said:


> Superintendent David V. Uberuaga


Um sorry but he has no say in this. Try The United States House of Representatives · House.gov


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## Tom Martin

Hi Folks, 

If you could take a moment today to call the Governor's office and ask Governor Brewer to reconsider her position and use her powers to keep the Grand Canyon open, that would be great. Explain how much you have worked to get your boats to Lee's Ferry, with time off work, plane tickets purchased, boating gear and food purchased, money paid to the NPS in access fees and rental fees. you know what you had to do to get your trip together. Her Phoenix number is (602) 542-4331, press option 4 to speak to a real person.
Thanks, yours, tom

Brewer meeting with cabinet for shutdown preparations | Arizona Capitol Times

Brewer: State won't pick up tab to keep Grand Canyon open during shutdown

By Jeremy Duda and Hank Stephenson -
<mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]

Published: September 30, 2013 at 4:03 pm

Arizona Gov. Jan Brewer explains during an impromptu press conference following the passage of her Medicaid expansion plan that she and her advisors had considered having the legislative leadership ousted in order to pass it.(Photo by Evan Wyloge/Arizona Capitol Times)

Arizona Gov. Jan Brewer (Photo by Evan Wyloge/Arizona Capitol Times)

Gov. Jan Brewer met this afternoon with members of her cabinet to discuss preparations for a possible shutdown of the federal government, which would affect a wide array of Arizona agencies and services, and even the Grand Canyon State's namesake.

President Obama and Congress have until midnight to reach an agreement on a continuing resolution that would fund the federal government, which congressional Republicans say should be contingent on the defunding and delay of the Affordable Care Act.

If they do not come to an agreement and the federal government shuts down, federally funded sites in Arizona such as the Grand Canyon would be shuttered.

Brewer was a lawmaker during the last federal shutdown, in 1995, when then-Governor Fife Symington negotiated with the U.S. Department of the Interior to keep the park open on the state's dime. The feds later reimbursed the state for its efforts.

But Brewer won't be following Symington's lead, she said.

"I don't know if the Grand Canyon is a high priority for the state of Arizona. We have a lot of other priorities out there like our National Guardsman and children," she said.

Brewer Spokesman Andrew Wilder said times were significantly different in 1995. Today, Arizona doesn't have the financial resources to pick up the tab for federal programs, he said, noting the governor has a "strong desire" not to use the more than $450 million currently in the rainy day fund to fill the gaps in federal funding.

Several state agencies, such as the Department of Economic Security, Department of Health Services and the Arizona Department of Transportation, are heavily reliant on federal funding and could be compromised depending on how long the shutdown lasts.

Each agency will be affected differently by a showdown, with some feeling the crunch immediately and some will be able to for weeks or months without federal funds, he said.

The Department of Economic Security, for example, receives more than 80 percent of its funding directly from the federal government or through federally operated programs.

However, many federal entitlement programs are forward-funded, meaning the appropriation for the first quarter of federal fiscal year 2014 was already included with the federal fiscal year 2013 appropriations.

In those programs, federal funding should continue to be available after September 30 and the Department does not anticipate a disruption in services, according to Tasya Peterson, director of communications for the Department of Economic Security.

"(I)n the short-term, the Department will be able to continue normal operations for most programs for a short period of time," Peterson wrote in an email.

However, two major programs providing assistance to low-income people will be affected immediately.

The Temporary Assistance for Needy Families block grant funds cash assistance payments averaging $207 per month to approximately 16,300 Arizona families. In the absence of a federal budget, these payments would cease beginning October 3.

The Social Services Block Grant funds a wide variety of services provided by local governments, non-profits, and other community organizations, including services for the elderly, domestic violence shelters and housing for the homeless. Grants normally made to these local entities on October 1 will be delayed if the federal government shuts down, according to Peterson.

Less than a week ago, the Brewer administration was bullish on the possibility of Obama and Congress reaching a deal that would avert a shutdown. But with the deadline looming and little progress made, the Governor's Office doesn't anticipate an agreement.

Brewer said Congress has a responsibility to negotiate a budget that can pass both chambers and be signed by the president. But she didn't place the blame solely on House Republicans who are demanding defunding and delaying that Obamacare be part of the negotiations.

"It's unfortunate that everybody down there, including the president, including Congress, that they can't come together and come up with a plan that works. In government we work under the theory that you have to compromise," she said.


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## lhowemt

Do you have an email? I can shoot an email today, don't want to deal with phone lines.


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## Tom Martin

Web site is here
http://azgovernor.gov/contact.asp
but they ask for an AZ address. Fax # is (602) 542-1381
Thanks!


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## Tom Martin

Hi all, a standoff has emerged at Lee’s Ferry, as the participants of two self-guided trips who launch tomorrow have arrived to rig. Three NPS vehicles are blocking the Lee’s Ferry road at its junction with Highway 89A. A commercial trip supposedly launching tomorrow is still intending to go to the Ferry early tomorrow to rig. A call out on the scanner for more backup has just gone out and the national press is involved. As we work on another solution to this mess, we stand with our fellow boaters oh-so-close to the put-in in their frustration in traveling thousands of miles and spending thousands of dollars only to be denied access.


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## okieboater

From the post above, looks like the "no negotiations" order is in effect in the Grand Canyon as well as the Administration and Senate.

Locally, we are told not only are the access gates to Buffalo River National River in Arkansas locked but no one is allowed on federal land hiking, camping or floating on the Buffalo River. Lock out!!

This entire situation is a SNAFU and every Federal Official in office plus both parties and the adminstration should be held responsible for making a bad situation worse.

Grand Canyon is a once in a lifetime trip for most of us and to be turned back at the gate fully geared to go is a real shame.

Hoping they work something out for the party at the gate.


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## Rustie

Any sightings of Hayduke near the gates? Surely...


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## TriBri1

Grand Canyon shutdown protesters dispersed at Lees Ferry

Camping out on the road is not a bad idea, they should have plenty of food and booze to last them a few weeks.


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## NorthernAZ

Festival?


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## Tom Martin

*Hi all, just back from a run to Marble Canyon. The trips that rigged out yesterday floated downstream this morning and are happily on their way. YAY!

The Lee's Ferry Law Enforcement Rangers, after orienting happy river runners, then headed to the junction of 89A and the Lee's Ferry Road and set up a road block. When the two groups of today's river trip riggers showed up from all across the country hoping to launch tomorrow, things got ugly at the roadblock and hot words were exchanged. NPS called backup, but cool heads prevailed all around. 

The two groups wanting to rig wanted to rig, and the NPS Rangers wanted them to rig too, but were under orders to not let them proceed down the road. No one was happy. Marble Canyon Lodge was kind enough to allow the river runners to set up camp in the Lodge parking lot, where the afternoon whiled away as hopes for a quick solution to this mess faded on the Nation’s capital steps. 

The standoff at the junction of 89A and the Lee's Ferry Road had an eerie resemblance to the standoff in Washington. In this case, the NPS is being totally and unrealistically inflexible. Self-guided river runners have a very good safety record, and the NPS Rescue Personnel are still on duty. 

After unsuccessfully attempting to get to Lee's Ferry, cell phones were used to speak with congressmen and congresswomen and their staffers, and the press. CBS sent up a film crew who will spend the night to see what happens tomorrow. 

A few photos are attached on the Rafting Grand Canyon Facebook Page at *
*https://www.facebook.com/groups/raftgc/*
*. At this point calls to the Arizona Governor’s office asking the Governor to reconsider her position on supporting the Park Closure are in order, as are calls to your Congressional Representatives encouraging them to end this stalemate. Yours, tom*


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## Lisa P

*Grand Canyon Launch*

I too am due to launch on Grand Canyon this Friday October 4. I am part of a group of friends that has been waiting for approximately 15 years. I want to express my feelings about the reactions of the community we are part of. 
I personally intend to place the blame where blame is due, not on the park employees. They are merely the messengers doing the job they are told to do. As frustrating as this can be, let's try to remember to focus our energy where it needs to go. In the end this method, I believe, will prevail to represent the community of boaters we are. We expect the government to come to resolutions in peaceful manners so let us start on a smaller level. Send your protests to the ears in Washington.


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## ranchman44

Well I just can't hold back !!Called my congressman to day and suggested that theycut the crap and really del with the major problems of this country 
1 Foreign aid be reduce by 90%[we are borrowing money to give to countries]
2 flat tax charged at register[5 % this would get us out of debt and illegals would pay their share]
4 that salaries of politicians be caped as well as retirement and benefits 
5 WE PULL OUT OF THE MIDDLE EAST [THEY DON'T WANT US ]

I know I will catch a lot of flack over this post but whats new . Take time to call your congressman and let them know your thoughts --It can't hurt


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## BrianK

The good people with launches this week are much more level headed than I would be. I would end up either on the river or in jail. More likely in jail. This is so dumb - the NPS doesn't do anything for 99.9% of trips once they launch. There is no government service to even shut down. They obviously have the resources to keep rangers at the put-in for security. Why can't these rangers just check the parties in, and let them know that there will be limited to no resources available to help them if they encounter trouble. Most river runners I know are comfortable with the idea of self reliance, and if they aren't then they don't have to go on the trip.


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## BoilermakerU

BrianK said:


> .....Why can't these rangers just check the parties in, and let them know that there will be limited to no resources available to help them if they encounter trouble. Most river runners I know are comfortable with the idea of self reliance, and if they aren't then they don't have to go on the trip.


Because they have orders not to. 

Pretty simple actually.

Their boss told them so.


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## BrianK

I understand that - I'm questioning the mandate from the NPS not the rangers themselves. It seems they have the personnel on hand to deal with the put-in. Apparently search and rescue is still in operation as well. I'm having a hard time figuring out what else river runners need from the government besides those two services.


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## David L

The problem with this, Brian, is that there is too damn much common sense in your statement for them to understand!



BrianK said:


> The good people with launches this week are much more level headed than I would be. I would end up either on the river or in jail. More likely in jail. This is so dumb - the NPS doesn't do anything for 99.9% of trips once they launch. There is no government service to even shut down. They obviously have the resources to keep rangers at the put-in for security. Why can't these rangers just check the parties in, and let them know that there will be limited to no resources available to help them if they encounter trouble. Most river runners I know are comfortable with the idea of self reliance, and if they aren't then they don't have to go on the trip.


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## mania

BoilermakerU said:


> Because they have orders not to.
> 
> Pretty simple actually.
> 
> Their boss told them so.


Not only that, the Laws dictate that Office of Management and Budget directs the Department of the Interior to direct the Superintendent to order the Rangers not to.


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## liquidphoto

ranchman44 said:


> Well I just can't hold back !!Called my congressman to day and suggested that theycut the crap and really del with the major problems of this country
> 1 Foreign aid be reduce by 90%[we are borrowing money to give to countries]
> 2 flat tax charged at register[5 % this would get us out of debt and illegals would pay their share]
> 4 that salaries of politicians be caped as well as retirement and benefits
> 5 WE PULL OUT OF THE MIDDLE EAST [THEY DON'T WANT US ]
> 
> I know I will catch a lot of flack over this post but whats new . Take time to call your congressman and let them know your thoughts --It can't hurt


No flack here!


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## Unordinary

*Supervisors*

And I can tell you from personal experience you do not get to be a Supervisor by using common sense or having a heart.

My heart is breaking for all those delayed and upcoming launches, having to stress so mightly, on what should be some of the best days you can imagine.

My hope is that the groups continue to congregate and get a chance to slip pass the rangers during a distraction.

Thank to Tom M. for acting as witness and reporter for the sad events at Lee's Ferry. If I was not so far away and working 3 jobs I would be right there with my support.


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## blutzski

ranchman44 said:


> Well I just can't hold back !!Called my congressman to day and suggested that theycut the crap and really del with the major problems of this country
> 1 Foreign aid be reduce by 90%[we are borrowing money to give to countries]
> 2 flat tax charged at register[5 % this would get us out of debt and illegals would pay their share]
> 4 that salaries of politicians be caped as well as retirement and benefits
> 5 WE PULL OUT OF THE MIDDLE EAST [THEY DON'T WANT US ]
> 
> I know I will catch a lot of flack over this post but whats new . Take time to call your congressman and let them know your thoughts --It can't hurt


No flack here either.


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## upshitscreek

lodge owner offers $25,000 to reopen grand canyon....

http://www.nytimes.com/news/fiscal-...ge-owner-offers-25000-to-reopen-grand-canyon/


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## brandob9

Here is the CBS news piece: 

Shutdown scuttles group's dream of Canyon float trip - WNEM TV 5


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## tanderson

The National Parks belong to us. They can have their system, but the land belongs to the people. They can't keep us out of it. Being somebody that has yet to draw a permit, I tear up with hatred and anger with the current events. Blocking the people from their land, who do these people think they are? Is there a put in a little higher that people could use that would enable them to float past this bullshit? My guess is that the Park System thinks they are absolutely mandatory to the enjoyment of the areas they are blocking us from. To let people go through and enjoy the canyon would show them that they are not entirely necessary. In fact they are worthless most of the time. It would insult their existence. What about rescue???? Put a big ass sign that says enter at your own risk and let the people float!

Down with the park service.


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## brandob9

NPR had an interview with Scott Lee as well: 

Want To Raft Through The Grand Canyon? Not During The Shutdown : NPR


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## blutzski

tanderson said:


> The National Parks belong to us. They can have their system, but the land belongs to the people. They can't keep us out of it. Being somebody that has yet to draw a permit, I tear up with hatred and anger with the current events. Blocking the people from their land, who do these people think they are? Is there a put in a little higher that people could use that would enable them to float past this bullshit? My guess is that the Park System thinks they are absolutely mandatory to the enjoyment of the areas they are blocking us from. To let people go through and enjoy the canyon would show them that they are not entirely necessary. In fact they are worthless most of the time. It would insult their existence. What about rescue???? Put a big ass sign that says enter at your own risk and let the people float!
> 
> Down with the park service.


Agreed. 

Why are unpaid park service people keeping people out? If they are unpaid, why don't they just go home and let people float? If they are paid, why are they considered "essential"? Really, what is essential about keeping people off the Grand????


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## mrkyak

Email to governor's office does accept non Arizona addresses.


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## sarahkonamojo

This sucks for everyone involved. 
A shutdown almost happened to us in 2011, but Congress resolved the impasse at the last minute.
Would also suck to have to enforce the closure when you aren't getting paid and don't know when you will be paid again.
Call your representative in Congress. Tell them what you think.


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## Schutzie

Park Service staff manning the barricade are paid.
It's illegal (really) to provide unpaid labor for government services. Government employees cannot even volunteer. It's illegal. They could (would) loose their jobs, and could go to jail. Really.

It's been pointed out that there are no savings by closing Lees Ferry. The very rangers who are manning the barricades are the same ones who would be checking groups in.

Emergency services are still running.

There is absolutely NO reason to close the park like this.


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