# Smith River



## seantana (Mar 5, 2015)

I'll be damned, looks like I landed a 5/30 launch. Rad!


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## Oslo (Feb 15, 2009)

Not Successful.....


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## basinrafter (May 12, 2009)

Denied, denied, denied. Dang it.


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## jporter59 (Apr 21, 2009)

*Need a boat? Complete with rabid fisherman and beer*

I have a friend in Craig, Co that would give his eye teeth to do this one, 15 years of applications with Nada, should be preference points so you can eventually get one, or use a false Montana Address to have a better chance.


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## Fishnfowler (Apr 19, 2014)

My 15 y/o son drew a June 17 launch on his first application. Have to buy an electric fence charger now.


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## walterwhite (Jan 25, 2017)

Are your chances increased if your a Montana resident? I'm technically not a resident yet, but I didn't get a permit any ways.. Have many people had good luck calling the reservation line to get a launch date ?


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## Osseous (Jan 13, 2012)

How's the fishing July 17? Just found out my wife pulled!

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## walterwhite (Jan 25, 2017)

Might be good in a kayak or canoe..

http://www.mountainbuzz.com/forums/f43/smith-river-mt-july-17-a-62141.html


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## Jamesdking (Mar 14, 2016)

We got july 31... Pray for snow! Our group is more than willing to drag a bit and can make due if the area can get some more snow. SNOTEL shows the only place in the whole damn country to not have enough snow right around there. "Not so much here, but right here!"


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## Jamesdking (Mar 14, 2016)

Fishnfowler said:


> My 15 y/o son drew a June 17 launch on his first application. Have to buy an electric fence charger now.


Doesnt it have to be a certified ?IGBC? fence? Like the one Counter Assault sells but seems hard to find online>


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## elkhaven (Sep 11, 2013)

July 17...50/50 - keep watching the snotel, we usually get a lot of our snow pack in March and April... on the other side, we had a lot of low elevation snow this year and some mid snow still exists - so at least there has been a bit of water around and overall the snow pack is probably in better shape than the snotel indicates. 

July 28... We put in on that date in 2011 (one of our highest water years on record) and it was great. This year it's unlikely, I'd give it a 30% chance. 

If floatable in either case, the water is pretty warm by then and fishing will be ok but unlikely great. The river gets fairly mossy but their can be fair evening hatches and fishing around cooler springs can be better as well.

As for bear gear - the rangers typically payed little attention to us last year. Just asked how we were complying but did not look at the gear. Who knows what this year will bring but I do believe it's supposed to be IGBC certified. You can always hang your gear...(or at least say you will). in over a dozen trips I've never seen a bear in or near camp - I think the whole thing is an over reaction to a few problem bears.


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## kengore (May 29, 2008)

According to the current rules any fence or food container must be IGBC certified. I own a 'Counter Assault' fence and I notice the charger is a standard off the shelf fence charger by a name brand company. The mesh looks a lot like the electric fencing for poultry. I thought about the DIY version, but when I figured all the stakes, wires, clips, stakes caring case, tester and instructions I think I saved money and time by buying a ready made kit. While the Smith rangers are lax, I boat on other rivers that are more strict and at least I have a 'certified' unit.

I have been on two Smith trips, 2013 and 2015. We had bears in 4 camps between the two trips. One came to investigate the pit toilet while a child was using it. The bear problem is real, come prepared and keep a clean camp.

One fence will protect the food for an entire group, so compared to the cost of each boat in the group upgrading existing coolers & containers the $300 fence was much cheaper.


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## elkhaven (Sep 11, 2013)

kengore said:


> I have been on two Smith trips, 2013 and 2015. We had bears in 4 camps between the two trips. One came to investigate the pit toilet while a child was using it. The bear problem is real, come prepared and keep a clean camp.


Well apparently we keep a cleaner camp than you. In 18 Smith trips - no animal issues what so ever... save a family of stow-away mice that made a nest in my drop bag one night. I don't think fences are the answer - they breed laziness. Everyone I've ever seen used safely enclosed a veritable treasure trove of food attractants. Pans, laying on tables, stoves sitting on top of dry boxes, garbage bags tucked under the table, the list could go on. While presumably safe from ingestion, they certainly send out quite a scent cone and used as such WILL attract bears. The best option is to keep all your attractants put away, I don't care if the containers are bear proof or not as long as it minimizes attractive scent.


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## MThikergirl (Jul 7, 2016)

I launched July 17 of last year, in fact I have a post about it. The water was super warm, low, mossy, and the fishing sucked, but it was 110% worth it. We didn't float rafts, but another party did. I don't think they dragged their raft at all. (we leap frogged them several times a day) I do know at one place they had to get out and walk, but just them getting out was enough weight loss to not have to drag.

We had no bear problems, but I keep a clean camp. Only curious deer at one. The rangers did actually check our bear cans, and had to make sure with "higher up" that our Ursacks were approved IGBC. Apparently he'd never seen or heard of them.


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## Sembob (Feb 27, 2014)

Lots of bear issues come from the previous campers. It may not matter that you keep a clean camp if the people before you did not. Elk of your 18 bear free trips how many were done pre dog ban?


Jim


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## elkhaven (Sep 11, 2013)

Sembob said:


> Lots of bear issues come from the previous campers. It may not matter that you keep a clean camp if the people before you did not. Elk of your 18 bear free trips how many were done pre dog ban?
> 
> 
> Jim


Most, for sure. I think that may be part of it but still most folks didn't bring dogs when they could. I agree, a lot has to do with recent use but I get tired of regulating our way through problems. I just feel the rangers don't even take it seriously and it gives a false sense of security.

I trust my preparations, not regulations that address only one small part of a potential problem and wrapping a fence around a dirty camp is not likely to keep bears from investigating. What happens when they can't find easy food? Do they start rooting around the boats, or worse? I think fences are great fir personal protection but doubt there effectiveness in abating camp encounters. 

Lastly, I still have yet to hear many first hand accounts of issues...Maybe a few folks on the interwebs but nothing in person. There have always been bears around and we managed to coexist without all this rigamarole before. As you know this is not a new stance for me and I've seen no evidence to change my perception. 

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## Sembob (Feb 27, 2014)

Yeah I've done a bunch of Smith floats and never had a bear in camp that I know of. 


Jim


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## walterwhite (Jan 25, 2017)

Has anyone been successful in obtaining a float permit by calling in? Everytime I call, I get an automated message.


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## elkhaven (Sep 11, 2013)

Not this year, but virtually every other trip I have been on was a cancellation permit.


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## walterwhite (Jan 25, 2017)

I was able to get through about 5 minutes ago. April 2nd and August 15 were the only permits available... Guess I'll be doing the South Fork of the Snake river.


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## elkhaven (Sep 11, 2013)

They'll keep opening up, not many people have cancelled yet, you just were getting what didn't get claimed in the initial lottery. Have faith - and the SF snake is fun too, no reason to do one or the other when both would be better.


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## Sembob (Feb 27, 2014)

It might be too early. The permit process is still going. 


Jim


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## walterwhite (Jan 25, 2017)

I guess I'll start calling in to see if I can obtain a permit.


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## Sembob (Feb 27, 2014)

You can still buy chances for the Super Permit. I just bought 10 yesterday. 


Jim


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## elkhaven (Sep 11, 2013)

Your odds are way better to just keep calling  The super permits are just cash generators for FWP. I have never really tried and failed to get a cancellation... I have failed with a couple of half hearted efforts, but if you really try I'm sure you'll find something.


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## Sembob (Feb 27, 2014)

Way better odds for cancellation. My issue is I have a pretty specific window this year. I am doing a Grand float and really shouldn't even be considering anything else. But if I can probably make a Memorial weekend float work. I also feel like it is a donation as well. The money stays in the Smith River Foundation or something along those lines. I'm sure it is a money grab but it's only a $5 chance and someone will win it. I'd much rather win the elk tag. But for me even that wouldn't be great to have this year. The Grand does limit what else I can do that's for sure. Good luck and you will get a cancellation if you aren't picky about when you go. 


Jim


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## walterwhite (Jan 25, 2017)

I see that Smith has 86% snow pack so far. Hoping for some time in June or early July?


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## elkhaven (Sep 11, 2013)

It'll all depend on what kind of late winter/spring we get. We could still build up some snow pack but it's looking like a light water year. Usually by mid july it's pretty low - doable but it can be a bit of work. The more open your time table is the easier it will be to get a permit. So don't be afraid of april and may either.


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## speadlight (Jul 26, 2005)

Successful
2017 SMITH RIVER LAUNCH APPLICATION
- 06/18/2017 was your 1st choice

To my surprise I got a June 18th permit on my first try a this lottery! Ive tried for Salway and GC permits for years but never pulled. Feels good to actually pull on for once. 15 of us will be driving up from Tennessee for 2 weeks running around Montana. I cant wait, hopefully things wont be to blow out. This may be a ridiculous question but I wanted to make sure I didn't now need to "RSVP" (for a lack of a better word, I emailed FWP but havent heard back). I noticed they were offering cancellation permits and wanted to make sure mine didnt end up being given away because I didn't verify something. I didn't even realized I won a permit until a outfitter sent me a postcard congratulating me. I figured FWP would email me if I won but I got nothing. Has anyone gotten their permit letter in the mail yet?

Thanks in advance!


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## walterwhite (Jan 25, 2017)

You get a letter in the mail. I called again this morning and the lady said there were only some August spots available. She must hate her job right now, phone must be ringing off the hook ever sec for the next month. Wasn't really informative, but I guess I dont blame her..


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## River Malt (Dec 7, 2009)

Our group pulled two Extra smith river permits that we can't use. Are we able to transfer these permits or do we have to cancel outright and give a shot to someone else?


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## Sembob (Feb 27, 2014)

You have to cancel. But someone aware of your cancel time could pick it up right away. 


Jim


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## walterwhite (Jan 25, 2017)

What dates can you not attend?


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## walterwhite (Jan 25, 2017)

We've been calling; still no luck. July 15th was the earliest date and the ranger said it would not be ideal for a raft.


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## River Malt (Dec 7, 2009)

We won't be able to use our May 28 and a June 11 launch dates. I will post back here when these will be released.


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## kram (Mar 22, 2017)

Pulled for July 18, still trying to figure out what kind of boat to take. From reading previous posts and trip reports it sounds like we should prep for bony water, crappy fishing, and bear attacks. 

Would a small oar frame raft be worth it to let the passenger fish down the river or would two IKs be more fun since the fishing will most likely be terrible mid-day? Not too worried about having to hop out and drag the raft.


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## [email protected] (Jun 1, 2010)

Just pack light and bear proof. Fishing will be hit or miss. Take cash for a on the river 
ice-cream float (I pack Guinness stout and a large cup) just for that.


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## cjising (Mar 24, 2008)

I have an opportunity to launch 4/13. Anyone have any beta relative to whether it is even remotely floatable in a 14 ft raft in mid-April?


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## basinrafter (May 12, 2009)

Totally depends on the flows. We ended up with a mid-April permit a few years ago, and it went from 300 to 900 cfs while we were on the river. Fishing was terrible, because the water was like chocolate milk, but at least there was plenty of water! Plus, it was in the 60's and sunny every day, while it was blizzarding back home in Colorado. Our boats were a 14 foot raft and an 11 foot Outcast cat - we got hung up once or twice the first day, but smooth sailing after that. Those permits are so hard to get - I'd say if it looks like there's enough water, go for it! Even if the fishing sucks, the scenery more than makes up for it.


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## elkhaven (Sep 11, 2013)

It's @ 178 hrs now and dropping. Typically my cutoff is around 200 depending on weather, trip length and the group in with. I've gone as low as 100 so it can be done much lower. Always in rafts. I would say odds are the water will bump up again but who knows. 

We did an April 10 a few years ago, just over 200 cfs. Best fishing I've seen in years on the Smith.

I'd keep it an option at worst. 

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## Jamesdking (Mar 14, 2016)

Well its the end of May and I have very poor prospect for the Smith this summer. Its below 300 CFS already and falling daily. Its gotta be the worst year on record despite the rest of the states great snowpack. Has anyone been down it lately to share their experience. We have a early August permit that has friends from all over traveling for. My guess is that its a bust unless there is a major July rainfall. Probably just diverting to the NF Flathead... Ten years of bad luck on the Smith and I've never been. Maybe when I grown up.


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## elkhaven (Sep 11, 2013)

I think early august is very unlikely, unless you're willing to go sub 100 cfs...hell maybe need to go sub 60 cfs. in 2011 we put on on July 28th, it was 300 cfs and dropped to 200 by takeout day. 2011 was an epic water year with snow accumulation throughout most of June. Last year it was 55 cfs on 8/1, with a rain event peak to 150 that boosted flows for a few days, then quickly back to 60 cfs. I see this year being much like last year... It takes an exceptional snow pack and slow release to take rafts down the Smith in August. for 2017 the snotel sites indicate most of the snow is gone, so floaters will be relying on precip for any bumps

I'd start making plans for the NF.


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## elkhaven (Sep 11, 2013)

I had to look up the dates, but In 2001 I put on June 2nd at 98 cfs. Climbed to 200 by the end of the second day but those first 2 days were BRUTAL.... Dragging a 16 foot gear boat from camp Baker to Indian creek took 11 hours.

That was the lowest year on record I believe... half the flow that's there now. There was also a big fish kill that year and a bunch of red necks got caught four wheeling up the river (well past the current road system).


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## Smaloney18 (Jul 5, 2012)

I understand its all speculative but any thoughts on a June 25th launch date with a drifty? Sounds like it could be tough the first few days..


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## elkhaven (Sep 11, 2013)

Not good.

I took a wood drift boat I restored down at about 300 cfs years ago... totally destroyed the bottom. It was a smallish boat (14') and we did have to put some load in it, but ever since I've discouraged people from taking hard boats below 400-500. It all depends on load and of course your tolerance for pain. If you have raft support and can run it day trip light you can get away with significantly lower flows, but if you have to carry gear you'll be drawing a lot more water than you're used to and will likely hit a lot of rocks... It's definitely a learning curve. There are so many little sneakers that sit just below the surface, deep enough for rafts but not DB's and they make almost no expression on the water surface. It drove me nuts and I decided any advantage that existed in the DB was lost to the constant attention required by the rower. Simply not relaxing.

With that said, I highly doubt it will be near 300 by the end of June. It's possible if things get wet again but it's dry as a popcorn fart around here now. My lawn is already starting to brown - a full month a head of normal. 

I'd suspect flows closer to 200 or below and I would definitely not take a DB down at that level. I know people do, but it's combat rowing.


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## GISguy (Jul 9, 2013)

I just got off on Monday. The level was 370 when we launched on Thursday and 280 when we got off. You really had to watch for rocks. If it keeps on going like this I don't think it will be much longer before it is pretty tough to get down it. We had 4 rafts and one drift boat that left a lot of paint along the way.
Saw one bear, no problems. Fishing was fair but the scenery was incredible.


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## kram (Mar 22, 2017)

Would you guys stick to the plan for a mid-late July IK float or plan something else at this point? Driving up from CO and the fishing should be good around here so it'd be sad to leave that for a week-long struggle on the Smith.


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## elkhaven (Sep 11, 2013)

kram said:


> Would you guys stick to the plan for a mid-late July IK float or plan something else at this point? Driving up from CO and the fishing should be good around here so it'd be sad to leave that for a week-long struggle on the Smith.


Fishing won't be great. It may have it's moments but the water will be very warm and very weedy. Dry flys in the tributaries or at dawn and dusk in the pools and glides. 

I've never done it in IK's, just not my thing but I know lots of folks do at very low flows so I think the floating would certainly be doable. If I were going that route and had nothing planned for mid September I'd punt on the July trip and do it then, the water will have cooled down and likely come up and the fishing will be better - all in all a better experience than in the heat of the summer.


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## Smaloney18 (Jul 5, 2012)

Thanks for the info Elkhaven. We have a group of rafts and one drifty. Sounds like we need round up one more raft.


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## MThikergirl (Jul 7, 2016)

The group that launched just before us last year were in IK (5-6) we caught them once at Indian springs and then never saw them again. I think they cruised down the river.


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## jwithers (Mar 18, 2011)

Floating June 6. Flows aren't looking good this year for that drainage and I heard it was only at 70% snowpack 3 weeks ago. Friends floated last week and the rangers thought the smith already peaked 2 weeks ago. I will be surprised if u can get a raft down the 3 or 4 week of June.


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## jwithers (Mar 18, 2011)

I'm floating a June 6. A buddy floated last week and beat his drift Boat up pretty bad the 1st day. The rangers thought it peaked 2 weeks ago. I bet it's below 200 mid June. It's a bad water year for the Smith.


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## rivers2run (Jun 7, 2012)

Which gage are you guys using the gage below eagle creek or the one at Eden? Which one does the Rangers use?


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## jwithers (Mar 18, 2011)

USGS 06076690 Smith River Near Fort Logan


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## elkhaven (Sep 11, 2013)

I use the eagle creek Gage, its a few miles down from camp baker and most representative of the upper stretch, which is where the low water difficulties occur. 

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## seantana (Mar 5, 2015)

Just got back from a 5/30 launch, we launched at 270 and it was low and murky, you really need to be watching for rocks the first couple days. Weather was phenomenal, but the fishing was pretty slow for everyone. Great trip all the same, get to camp baker as early as you possibly can, we signed in at 1 the day before and were 7 of 9 on the campsite selection and ended up with a super short first day and a couple long ones after that.


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## kengore (May 29, 2008)

Just returned from a 5/28 launch. Flow was 275 at put-in. Upper section was very rocky and had several gravel bars I had to slide the boat across. Next 3 days had adequate flows, but just barely in many places. Great weather, slow fishing. It got into the 80's by the end of the trip.

There is a new outdoor shop in White Sulfur Springs, closest town to the put-in. The shop is named _Two Sisters Sports_ . They had a replacement stove (mine failed on the way down) and they rent rafts for those of us that brought out a drift boat and saw the water drop too low. Great folks I highly recommend them.

I chatted with some of the pro guides at the put-in, they thought there last trip would be mid June. Then the water would be too low even for a raft.


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## Patrick Lynch (Nov 20, 2014)

We put in on the Smith on 17 June, and I am glad to see the flow as of 6-5 -17 is 544 CFM, slightly under the median of 570. The trend is up, and the trend line of the low flows is now intersecting the trend line of the lowering median flow, so I will hope for the best. As a math teacher, the trend lines are what I am clinging to! At least our group has four rafts....but there are two pig rafts....my Aire 156D and my friends Sotar 16. My wife told me they start pulling irrigation water very soon, so that will undoubtedly have a negative effect.


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## Sembob (Feb 27, 2014)

It is going to be a tough week on the Smith snow pack. Temps reaching mid 90s. 


Jim


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## Rolling Thunder (Jun 10, 2017)

Patrick - you will not be happy with the 16 foot rafts at this flow. It's pouring rain today, but that h2o isn't going to last till the 17th.

You're going to be back to 300 cfs by then and trust me when I say that is too low for 16 foot boats, be prepared to do a lot of dragging.



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## denali1322 (Jun 3, 2013)

We got off on 6/9. According to gauge, we had flows up to 500. I was in 14 and other group in 16. I would not really want either back there at 300 or less. Yes, you could probably get a 14' through, but it would get really annoying/tiresome to drag your boat at times. 

We had great weather, great scenery, no biting bugs, and no whitewater. The maps will tell you there is class 2 whitewater at mile 47, but if that is class 2, I must be a class 5 boater (hint, I'm not).


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## elkhaven (Sep 11, 2013)

Rolling Thunder said:


> Patrick - you will not be happy with the 16 foot rafts at this flow. It's pouring rain today, but that h2o isn't going to last till the 17th.
> 
> You're going to be back to 300 cfs by then and trust me when I say that is too low for 16 foot boats, be prepared to do a lot of dragging.
> 
> ...


I don't agree with this. In reality it depends on how the boat is loaded, but if you load a 16'er with the same load as you would put in a 14'er she'll float a lot higher and you will drag less. If you bring every piece of cast iron, including the kitchen sink just because you have the room then you might end up dragging a bunch.

There is nothing particularly narrow on the Smith, maybe the boulder garden above Rattlesnake, but It's totally doable. So too big really isn't a problem, it's actually a benefit. That is unless you feel you must fill all available space.

If I had a 13/14er and and 16 footer, I'd take the bigger boat, every time. 

300 cfs is right in the wheel house. At least half of my trips are at or below this level. Yes you will likely drag, but you'll figure out where the channels run and will have a blast. Hint, deeper water is almost always near the banks when the river gets wide.


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## elkhaven (Sep 11, 2013)

Just checked the flows - you got a big rain bump... that should buy everyone another week or two. Currently running at 600 and still rising.


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## rivers2run (Jun 7, 2012)

We are scheduled to launch on Friday. Happy to see that rain come in! Sounds like today there will be rain also. We are in rafts.


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## Patrick Lynch (Nov 20, 2014)

Currently (Tuesday the 13th) the Smith is at 688 cfm and it's still raining today. I think the weekend will be fine, and hope for clearing water. No doubt it's chocolate brown right now. We have run it at a little over 300 cfm without a problem. Even though we have a 156D Aire, I think we will be fine.....Weather forecast to stop raining tonight.  Now the weekend after the 17th I would be concerned, as this rain bump will be worn off, and the irrigation pulls will lower the river. Fingers crossed! As a math teacher and data nerd, I'm going to document this rain bump and the inches of water they got, and see if I can do some quick algebra on the new trend line.


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## elkhaven (Sep 11, 2013)

This is what I've done in years past: 








I originally made this for a late July 2011 trip, so I left those 2 years for reference. 2001 is the low year on record, I believe. If not it's close enough for this comparison. 

So to make this I just did a graphical fit (not math) to the drop in the 2003 data from the peak (Late May) out until the data merges with the majority of the other trends. You'll note that the data isn't updated through yesterday (doesn't have that 300 cfs bump in it) so, I put the crest of my prediction at 700 cfs, then rotate the prediction line so it intersects the low flow trend lines (out there around the first of august). It's not a robust analysis but it only takes a few minutes and is usually reasonable accurate. If there is another rain bump I just align my prediction to the top of that crest, rotate until it converges with the low flow trend. It's a fair, reasonably conservative guesstimate... If this bump crests at 800, I'll readjust and see what it looks like.

If this prediction holds up, the river will drop below 200 cfs around the 4th of July. That number isn't a hard breaking point, but typically around the lowest I'll launch with a mixed crew (Kids or other pampered people). With die-hards I'll go lower. With my sister-in-law, much higher .


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## Patrick Lynch (Nov 20, 2014)

Way cool interpretation of anticipated flows. I love the simple flipping of the line (I assume along a vertical line of symmetry, or at least that's how I am understanding it). Your prediction has us launching somewhere from 425 to 400 cfm, which would be just fine. It will be so cool to watch the flows and match them up to your dotted trend line.

Thanks mucho for such a great pool of data.


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## Sembob (Feb 27, 2014)

What is going on with Snotel? The Smith River Basin has been crazy. I've seen it go from 0% to 18% to 33% to 0% . Today it is at 100%. 


Jim


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## elkhaven (Sep 11, 2013)

Sembob said:


> What is going on with Snotel? The Smith River Basin has been crazy. I've seen it go from 0% to 18% to 33% to 0% . Today it is at 100%.
> 
> 
> Jim


Jim, 

The snotel sites all work off of a long term average for whatever period you are looking at (usually a particular day)... For the last few weeks, each site you've probably looked at had zero snopack, but in realitye each site would would still have an average SWE for any given date. Any new snow would register as an uptick on the current relationship to average SWE (percent of normal). So the jumping snowpack indicates new snow. Look at the precipation tab, it should show you how much snow fell.


edit: Sorry everyone, I've been up for 24 hours... I looked back and that paragraph is somewhat confusing, but alas, I can't seem to clarify it.


Good night.


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## dingdong (May 27, 2016)

how's the prediction going? need two more weeks of water 



elkhaven said:


> This is what I've done in years past:
> View attachment 19785
> 
> 
> ...


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## elkhaven (Sep 11, 2013)

Right on predicted trend


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## dingdong (May 27, 2016)

uh-oh....not looking good for later next week launch


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## elkhaven (Sep 11, 2013)

Flows are way under my prediction now. 167 a few minutes ago and dropping fast. It's gonna be a long hot summer for the fishes in the Smith.


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## dingdong (May 27, 2016)

i saw that. boy was I hoping your prediction was going to stay on track. appreciate the effort and info. I'm going to cancel this afternoon. hopefully next year.


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## Patrick Lynch (Nov 20, 2014)

Sorry the flows on the Smith are so low....we launched the 17th of June and had 497 CFM at put in, and I estimate between 350-400 at the end of our trip. We did have to navigate bony sections, but that's a good warm up for the MF later this summer (July 21 launch).....reading the shoal/rocky areas and moving the raft accordingly. Fishing was spotty, but we did have a day when we all hooked up on dry flies....I had luck with a squalla pattern with egg sack. Almost no rises then WHAM....fish on. My friend did very well with streamers on day two, and it was his best father's day ever....but none of us caught fish that day!


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## Yadwick (Jun 27, 2017)

We are supposed to put on thursday the 29th, in rafts. Do you think this would be doable or should we move the trip to another place? cheers. looks like its around 160 and got some rain today, not sure how much it will bump the flows....


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## Sembob (Feb 27, 2014)

I would not float at these levels. There are better options for sure. Just a heads up for all of you still holding permits, the Smith is almost never floatable this late and never will it fish. 


Jim


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## elkhaven (Sep 11, 2013)

Sembob said:


> I would not float at these levels. There are better options for sure. Just a heads up for all of you still holding permits, the Smith is almost never floatable this late and never will it fish.
> 
> 
> Jim


Sorry Jim, but I don't agree with all of your post. however I do agree with some of it. Floating now will be very, very difficult. And fishing will suck - moreover catching fish late in the day will kill the fish... so only fish in the morning if you decide to go for it. Fish only when water levels are cool.

I may not make any friends on the rest of this post either but I only partially agree that it's unfloatable. Floatablility is purely based on the level of effort you are willing to endure.

As for now, she's marginally floatable.... I don't know if I would launch next week. As I've said before it really depends on your crew. You CAN run the river with lightly loaded rafts at 160 cfs, even 100, but you ABSOLUTELY WILL drag, ALOT. There is no simple line to follow. At these flows the runnable channel bounces between banks, it will take great communication between you and your fellow boaters.

As far as comparable to ELF on the middle fork salmon, it isn't one. Not even close. There is literally nothing comparable between the two. The Smith runs at half the velocity (at maximum). The issues are in no way comparable. The Smith is long flat stretches only a few inches deep, You literally will have to drag (at ELF flows) through a series of riffles, then rest as you float through pools. The top few days (above the tenderfoot) are by far the most difficult. The last day has it's thin spots too, but nothing like the top. Technically, You can drag anything down the Smith....but it is exceedingly simple compared to the MFS. 

The MFS is long boulder fields, constant maneuvering, short technical rapids - and some longer rapids. The Smith has none of this. There is literally not even a slight comparison (water wise). Both are very beautiful and well worth exploration, just very different in terms of technicality, regardless of the flow.


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## Fishnfowler (Apr 19, 2014)

Patrick Lynch said:


> Sorry the flows on the Smith are so low....we launched the 17th of June and had 497 CFM at put in, and I estimate between 350-400 at the end of our trip. We did have to navigate bony sections, but that's a good warm up for the MF later this summer (July 21 launch).....reading the shoal/rocky areas and moving the raft accordingly. Fishing was spotty, but we did have a day when we all hooked up on dry flies....I had luck with a squalla pattern with egg sack. Almost no rises then WHAM....fish on. My friend did very well with streamers on day two, and it was his best father's day ever....but none of us caught fish that day!


I am the dude in this story, and I'm also the guy with the big boat. We had no problems and I caught a bunch of fish in front of my friends, best trip ever. I landed a 23" brown and four 21" fish. There were too many in the 16-19" range to count. Poor Patrick flogged the camp hole on my big day and when he was done, I hooked up on the first cast. It was technical fishing, but once I cracked the code, it was straight-forward.

MF salmon here we come.


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## Patrick Lynch (Nov 20, 2014)

I would write off Fishnfowler's comments as bravado, but unfortunately they are absolutely true. He caught many, many fish right in front of us and his smile was contagious. He did have the best father's day ever.


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## Smaloney18 (Jul 5, 2012)

Our group pushed off the 25th when it was 189 CFS. It was bony and we had to push in areas where got hung up but all in all it was 100 % worth it. Fish was good early and ran into a silly Drake hatch night 02. Fished all drys, dry droppers and smaller streamers/ wooly buggers. Loved the float.


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## MTBox (Feb 15, 2016)

What type of boats did you bring?


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## Smaloney18 (Jul 5, 2012)

MTBox said:


> What type of boats did you bring?


Loaded rafts with 2 people per boat. Had a group of 6 boats.


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## elkhaven (Sep 11, 2013)

Smaloney18 said:


> Our group pushed off the 25th when it was 189 CFS. It was bony and we had to push in areas where got hung up but all in all it was 100 % worth it. Fish was good early and ran into a silly Drake hatch night 02. Fished all drys, dry droppers and smaller streamers/ wooly buggers. Loved the float.


Glad you went and had a great time! You probably didn't see too many other groups


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