# PFD buoyancy loss over time????



## Kendrick (Jul 8, 2010)

Thanks for bringing this up. I hadn't thought much on it but that's an important question. In searching for the answer, I found this practical advice on the matter:



Cheyenne said:


> The rule of thumb that I have heard is:
> 
> in a deep quiet pool "stand" vertically. If your nose is under water it's time for a new PFD.
> 
> Another way would be... if you start feeling uncomfortable with the PFD (i.e. it's nagging you) -- retire it and get a new one.


And...



rasdoggy said:


> I was told by a coast gaurd that if your PFD doesnt float you at chin level you need a one with more floatation.


 
From:
http://www.mountainbuzz.com/forums/f11/how-often-do-you-replace-your-pfd-4583.html


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## tanderson (Mar 26, 2010)

Great advice. Thanks.


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## mjpowhound (May 5, 2006)

Here is the very helpful response I got from Astral when I asked how often a PFD should be replaced. Note the part where they replace foam in their PFDs for free.

Hi Josh! 

This is a great question! We recommend approximately 300 days on the water, or 5 years; whichever comes first. At this time it might be good to examine your jacket to see what kind of shape it is in. If you feel that it could use some new foam, please contact us and we will re-stuff the jacket for only a $12 return shipping charge. At this point you may be able to get another season out of it. 

You will want to make sure to check the outer shell of the jacket, for any spots that have been/are beginning to wear out. To maximize the life of your PFD, try out some of the care tips below that we recommend:

-Do your best to thoroughly dry your jacket after use
-Do not keep you jacket in direct sun for long periods of time
-Avoid unnecessary compression of your PFD…like cramming it into a small storage container when you are not using it. 
-Do not store the jacket in extremely cold or hot spaces 
-You can scrub some of the dirt out of the shell by using a small nylon bristle brush and some gentle detergent. Rinse the jacket and hang to dry. 
I hope this information is helpful! But if you have any additional questions, please do not hesitate to ask! 

Thank you,
-Margie Matthai 


Astral Buoyancy Company
895 Broadway St. 
Asheville, NC 28804
P: 828.255.2638 ext. 306
F:828.255.2639


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## tanderson (Mar 26, 2010)

I have a hard time listening to any outdoor company counseling on the lifetime of products in which it sells. Far too many people listen to them and shell out more money only to find out that the "old timers" are still using their "tried and true" equipment from back in the day.

Over the years, I've found that some of the best equipment I have is over a decade old. I guess the outdoor industry needs food to grow.

-TDA
from the town where the giant outdoor geek festival is.....SLC


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## SimpleMan (Dec 17, 2009)

Individually packaged Rice Krispee Treats will provide the additional flotation you need man. Just throw them in your pockets.


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## Gremlin (Jun 24, 2010)

By "buoyancy" I think the employee meant "style". Update that shit!


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## Avatard (Apr 29, 2011)

My PFD buoyancy loss has been offset by my additional PBR buoyancy gains. Reason #123 not to go on that diet. A good PFD is expensive!!


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## raftus (Jul 20, 2005)

I bought a lotus in 2000 - by summer of '06 I sunk when wearing it (to be fair I had 500+ river days in that span). Bought a new jacket mid season, it's now in it's fifth season and still works - but i am floating a bit lower in it. 
The interesting thing is that if you don't swim often, and you are usually in cold rivers you may not notice a loss of buoyancy - mostly because you don't float in the river very often, if ever. I didn't notice my first jacket had lost buoyancy until I was in Tennessee for a wedding and was floating in the Ocoee to cool off after guiding a private trip. I jumped in, sunk, and didn't float up. Swam up and found that I could just sink back below the surface without swimming. Worth checking if your jacket is a bit older.


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## BruceB (Jun 8, 2010)

Been curious about this all season so I just weighted some of my old America's cup pfd's to see how much they would still float. A standard model from 1988 floated about 30lbs and the Ultrafloat version I normally wear, from 1992, floated 34 lbs! Those vests were rated at 22 and 25 lbs. Too bad America's Cup is out of business.

Also not sure why so many people are wearing pfd's with only 16lbs of floatation in the places many of us choose to boat. Do yourselves a favor and get something with 20lbs + next time.


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## mjpowhound (May 5, 2006)

Hey Bruce, there aren't many vests out there with more than 16 lbs of flotation (at least not from the NRS catalog). I've also heard that excess flotation can translate into hole bait.


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## kayaked56 (Nov 12, 2003)

They do lose boyancy, upgrade if unsure. Took a monster swim in Double Trouble to find that out.


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## BruceB (Jun 8, 2010)

NRS has three under the NRS brand (Big Water Guide, Big Water V and Rapid Rescuer). All have 22 or 25 lbs floatation. Extrasport makes four or five and there are some other companies out there.

The hole bait thing is interesting. Anyone have firsthand experience being hole bait bacause of a high floatation pfd?


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## Rich (Sep 14, 2006)

I used my two nephews this weekend to check the buoyancy of my old PFDs.
Still have two nephews, so all is good.

I've wanted a high buoyancy, but all the ones I've tried on were very ackward.
Would not want to buy one online.


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## raymo (Aug 10, 2008)

tanderson said:


> A raft store employee told me that PFD's lose buoancy over time. I have both new and old pfds and the old one seems to provide great floation.
> 
> Is this true? Does age take its toll on them??? I have four that are about 15 years old.
> 
> -TDA


We called them sinkers. I don't know how long a pfd is good for but I can tell you how to treat your pfd. Do not use your pfd as a seat , do not use them as packing materal when loading your rafting equipment, do not put anything heavy'er than a pillow on them and load them last. Treat them like your life depends on them. The only way to know a 100% is to test them and not by just looking at them. I had a passenger jump into the river to cool off and she went right to the bottom of the river and never poped up like the rest of the passengers. Good thing I was watching, I had to remove my pfd to dive down to rescue her because the flotation of my pfd would not allow me to go deep enough to grab her.


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## Ed Hansen (Oct 12, 2003)

There seem to be two camps here.

In one corner: "My 50 year-old pfd is a family heirloom and with it, I am invincible!"

And in the other corner: "Toss it after 3 years if it just smells funny!"


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## BruceB (Jun 8, 2010)

Shit, I hope I didn't come off as invincible! I was just thinking about replacing all my pfd's when this thread came up. But no need, the fabric is in good shpae and they still have lots of floatation. I was very surprised.

Only issue is the "senior" gentleman at Westwater Ranger Station won't let you in if the "Class III" or "Class V" marking is worn off. He has mellowed over time, however.

Which camp are you joining Ed?


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## sealion (Oct 13, 2008)

The wearing off of the coast guard lettering is state regs, not personal preferences. If you think he's bad, try the lee's ferry rangers. A jacket looking funny is enough to get the axe.


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## Brotorboat (Apr 14, 2009)

Wanted to clear something up...

Jackets are rated by TYPE and not by any sort of "class" rating. 

Type III would be the most popular and Type V would be special use jackets like Rescue Jackets and the kind most commercial outfitters use that has the neck pillow.

Think of it this way...there are no rapids on the open seas.


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## Kendrick (Jul 8, 2010)

I've talked to a guy who stripped even his Whitewater-grade PFD (16-17lb I guess) off in order to swim out of a rapid that he couldn't get out of; he was being dunked under the surface repeatedly and would have drowned. Not sure if that was the best solution, but it worked. I've since read about similar stories where the PFD had to go.

Hope I never see the day when I have to make that choice. I have thought about getting a bigger PFD though. It's a conundrum.


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## jannypan (Jul 28, 2011)

I hadn't thought much on it but that's an important question.


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## carvedog (May 11, 2005)

BruceB said:


> The hole bait thing is interesting. Anyone have firsthand experience being hole bait bacause of a high floatation pfd?


Not being but seeing. It was horrible too. On the Tieton the rapid was Waffle Wall maybe. Been a while. Swimmers kept coming down and getting stuck in this fairly small but sharp hole. The 2nd one knocked the first one out until lucky #5 came down. She was small - tough to judge weight in this situation but I don't think she could have been more than 125. Large 4 buckle Americas Cup jacket. Looked the same as the universal ones that were popular at the river company I worked at. 

She was in there long enough that I had time to jog back to my car to get the second throw bag ( I only had one on me) as she was about 70 feet from me and I couldn't get to her. So I jogged the couple hundred yards to my car and back to try to double up the ropes to reach. I did this for about 15 minutes before she flushed out. 

Sign language from the other side indicated she was alive. She didn't look it, but I heard the next day she was all right. She spent close to 20 minutes surfing this very innocent looking feature. I really thought I was watching someone die. I don't think she was in a condition to remove her LJ but I think she would have flushed immediately if she had. 

That's all I have.


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## Kendrick (Jul 8, 2010)

Thanks again for this thread. I remembered to test my PFD last Friday, and thankfully, the waterline is below my chin. Got this PFD used a year ago. Probably has at least 3 seasons under it. (Stohlquist Wedge-E, I think)


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