# Bringing the Baby



## Marco Esquandolis (Mar 15, 2010)

I usually attach mine to the boat with 20' of heavy duty steel chain. If it's starts crying I place it on top of a paco pad and let it out on a hundred feet of prussic cord.


----------



## montanaskye (Apr 5, 2010)

That works too


----------



## Riparian (Feb 7, 2009)

You're going to hell! Me too, since I laughed really hard at your post.



Marco Esquandolis said:


> I usually attach mine to the boat with 20' of heavy duty steel chain. If it's starts crying I place it on top of a paco pad and let it out on a hundred feet of prussic cord.


----------



## Fuzzy (May 25, 2005)

I straped a car seat to the decking on my frame. Let my little one chill in that with a hand on her and mescaline


----------



## jgrebe (Jan 16, 2010)

Leave the kid at home. Seriously. I've bee rafting for 40 years and I can tell you no matter how safe the water appears, shit happens. It's crazy to expose anybody who can't swim to that risk, but when they are too young to decide for themselves it's criminal - literally. If there was an accident you WOULD be charged with child abuse


----------



## TakemetotheRiver (Oct 4, 2007)

8 months might be kind of young for a multi-day, but only you can make that decision. What do 8 month olds like to do? Touch things, crawl, taste things, etc. How much of that goes on on the boat?

I started taking my son on the town run (2 hour trip) at 18 months. By that time, he wanted to paddle, wanted to wear a PFD, and loved the water.

He is 5 now and has only been on 3 multi-days. He still needs toys (a kite with an upstream breeze is amazing for everyone) and other distractions (fishing pole, paddle, etc.) on the water.

Maybe take your baby camping or hiking and stick to day runs for a while. But again- only you know your child, your ability, and your level of patience with his/her level of impatience.


----------



## kazak4x4 (May 25, 2009)

I didn't start mine until almost 5. I have had my son in swimming classes for 3 years prior to that. 

If you end up going through with it make sure you provide shade for the mother and the child. I like bimini tops much better than umbrellas. Bring lots of extra clothes, I was amazed how much clothes my kid went through on Deso. Luckily, my wife over packs.


----------



## bth (Oct 31, 2005)

*little ones on the boat*

i'll throw in my 2 cents here. 
first of all, there are people that feel strongly on BOTH sides of this issue- and differences of opinion are what make the world go round. disagreeing doesnt mean that anyone is right or wrong. 
that having been said, life is full of calculated risks. i, for one, FULLY support getting kids out on the river as soon as possible. i have two girls- one just turned three and the other just turned one- and i've done many, many overnight floats with them. the keyword there is FLOATS. 
to me, the rewards of watching your kids play in the sand, gaze at the stars, chase little lizards, etc. when they COULD be glued to a television set or video game system outweigh the risk associated. runs like ruby/horsetheif (you can even WALK blackrocks on a well-maintained trail if you're not comfortable with the flows, etc.) labyrinth, etc. represent AMAZING opportunities for some family time "away from it all." of course, people might give you strange looks at the put-in when you're strapping your car seat to the frame. i've gotten the same looks with my girls on my back at ski resorts. again, it's calculated risk. the truth of the matter is that the car ride to the put-in was statistically FAR more dangerous than your time on the river, assuming that you're paying close attention to your child's needs and safety. 
my bottom line is this: trips with young kids aren't the time to be boozing or running big water, but done correctly, the'yre invaluable experiences for the young ones and the old ones alike.


----------



## Dump truck (May 22, 2008)

*Car seet with an unbrella*

We started our kids at 5 and 6 months. For sure strapping a car seat to the frame works, then hook up an umbrella for shade. It really is a great way to spend quality family time. The San Juan when the waters warm is a good multi-day trip. wading in the river with your baby opens up a new world for them they love the feel of the river currents and the mud baths! When they get older the Paco pad on a prussic cord is the trick.


----------



## mprobst (Oct 13, 2003)

We took our son down the upper c a few times when he was just a few months old. ruby horsethief also. we did the strapping the car seat to the frame method. we also kept an empty bay with just a mesh drop bag in it for playing with some toys. also he loved to play in the water where the floor laced in, just sit him down there and let him go nuts, just had to watch he did not get too cold. the only bad part was the trains waking him up at night. The San Juan is a great river for kids. Mine love floating in the river in just life jackets, and on paco pads. now at 5 and 7, they dont understand why I have to work and we cant just go rafting and camping every day. As he grew and became mobile, my wife had to cut the bottom couple inches of material off of his lifejacket and re-sew it so he could actually sit up without his face crushed. We also started our kids in ISR (infant swim research) when they were 6 months old. I really recommend it. at 6 months old, if our kids fell in a pool or river, they knew how to turn over and float face up. Luckily we have never had a real test of it.


----------



## alanbol (Jun 3, 2005)

*We started at 6 months, too*

Car seat and an umbrella. Stay on flat water.

Carry a mesh bag full of sand toys (but some spoons and yogurt containers will do). When you're camped on a beach, bring them water to play with in a 5-gallon bucket, especially if there's any current.

I think the most dangerous period is when they first get mobile - you can never take your eyes off them. Ever.


----------



## Bryan (Feb 3, 2005)

The car seat is a good idea although we never tried it.
Make sure they are not strapped in because they would certainly drown in a flip before you could free them from the seat.
We always held our kids when they were infants or laid them down on the deck when sleeping. Mine is 24"x42" with foam camping pad glued to it for comfort. Now they sit on the deck when not rowing or stand in the floor.
You have to watch them at all times since they are never prepared for a bump from a rock or shore and would topple right over in the water or hit their head on the frame or something.

The other thing I woul recomend is to make frequent stops for snacks, and play time so they don't get bored and cry all the time, which with an infant is highly possible seeing that life vest ride very high on their face and really piss them off.
An umbrella is a nice addition also for desert floats.
Our kids are anow 5 and 2 and have been practically rafting since they were born. The hardest thing now is finding enough quiet time where they are not hounding me to let them on the oars.


----------



## jgrebe (Jan 16, 2010)

bht. Well said - there should be room for discussion and disagreement and I don't mean to insult anyone who has different feelings. Having said that I think you are vastly underestimating the risk. You are talking about straping an infant into a car seat and floating on moving water. This is not akin to skiing with a kidpack - make a mistake on water and they are dead, not hurt. My kids were on the raft by 3 or 4 but they could swim - and on one occasion they had to while we were on class 1 or II water - I got distracted and hit a rock. I don't see any responsible boaters strapping THEMSELVES onto a raft with no ability to release themselves in the event of an accident so why would they think it's OK for an infant? There are MANY way to share the outdoors with infants and todlers that don't involve fatal consequences for a mistake


----------



## mprobst (Oct 13, 2003)

For atleast me, I strapped the car seat to the boat, but never actually buckled the kid into it, we used an old car seat bought at second hand shop and removed the straps. I agree that would be scary. we just had the wife sitting right next to it or holding him, and always had someone whose whole job was watching the kid.. Our sons seemed to prefer sitting on the floor or in a drop bag used as a play pen in an empty bay on frame if we were not holding them. I was worried about letting them sit on the padded board we use over the front bay, if I bump a rock or anything, way to easy for them to go in, did not do that until they were 2 or 3.


----------



## jbolson (Apr 6, 2005)

*Portable indoor fencing*

We used portable indoor fencing to make a playpen for times off the river. This worked great, especially after mobility. It kept our daughter contained until she was about 4 years.


----------



## HeadWound (Sep 2, 2009)

Bring a pack-n-play, especially if they're already used to one. It gives them a secure place to play or sleep after they've had enough of the sand, water, etc.. and gives you some hands free time to make food, tend to another child and so forth


----------



## yathnk99 (Mar 31, 2010)

Well being from MT myself, I grew up on the rivers as did my siblings and other children... my nephews have been floating with us since they were 3 months old.... (always on a calm stretch).....the car seat is a great idea also another idea that we use now that they are older 18 months is a booster type high chair (the kind you can strap down to a chair...these work great as well as long as they can sit up on their own and always have someone by their side....its a great way to grow up and I wouldn't change it for the world, especially on the rivers in Montana.....


----------



## Dave Frank (Oct 14, 2003)

Riley's been doing overnights since he was 8 mos. It is not for everyone and probably isn't the safest thing you can choose.

That being said his closest calls were always on the beach, not in the raft.

He still loves boating and camping. He is 8 now and usually kayaks.


----------



## Toni (Sep 18, 2006)

Marco Esquandolis said:


> I usually attach mine to the boat with 20' of heavy duty steel chain. If it's starts crying I place it on top of a paco pad and let it out on a hundred feet of prussic cord.


Man, I needed that laugh today...thank you.


----------



## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

Did you see this in the Missoulian a bit ago? Not useful for logistics of taking the baby on the river, but it seems like a good idea for future boaters, especially for the very young.

http://www.mountainbuzz.com/forums/f14/getting-the-kiddiies-swimming-29395.html

There have been more than a few passionate threads about this topic, babies on boats. Get creative with the search function and you might find some good info on top of what people post now.


----------



## Kendi (May 15, 2009)

Impressive that you all want to bring your young children on the river. I hesitate to even bring my 8 yr old! Not because I fear for his safety- but I fear for my sanity! Seriously- how relaxing is it going to be going on a mellow float trip with a kid that is probably going to be hot, thirsty, and filling up lots of diapers? 

But- you may have a different kid. 

FWIW- I used to be a swim instructor for 18 years. Young children do not have the reasoning ability to know what to do (ie swim) if they fall in. They just don't. Even if they can swim in a pool- they lack the ability to have good judgement enough to save themselves. Just thought I'd put in my 2 cents on the matter even though it's been discussed before.


----------



## caseybailey (Mar 11, 2008)

jgrebe said:


> bht. Well said - there should be room for discussion and disagreement and I don't mean to insult anyone who has different feelings. Having said that I think you are vastly underestimating the risk. You are talking about straping an infant into a car seat and floating on moving water. This is not akin to skiing with a kidpack - make a mistake on water and they are dead, not hurt. My kids were on the raft by 3 or 4 but they could swim - and on one occasion they had to while we were on class 1 or II water - I got distracted and hit a rock. I don't see any responsible boaters strapping THEMSELVES onto a raft with no ability to release themselves in the event of an accident so why would they think it's OK for an infant? There are MANY way to share the outdoors with infants and todlers that don't involve fatal consequences for a mistake


I find it interesting that you decided that 3 years old was the age at which your child was able to understand the risk. Gives you the heads up of the subjectivity of this topic. Typically the law goes in brackets of 0-7, 8-14 and 15-21 as far as decision making and parent responsibility goes.


----------



## the_dude (May 31, 2006)

Kendi said:


> Impressive that you all want to bring your young children on the river. I hesitate to even bring my 8 yr old! Not because I fear for his safety- but I fear for my sanity! Seriously- how relaxing is it going to be going on a mellow float trip with a kid that is probably going to be hot, thirsty, and filling up lots of diapers?


I want to get our little guy out because I want him to experience the same things we experience and to grow up doing and -hopefully- liking them. And I don't want to be a parent that gives up every one of my before-kid hobbies and have my life revolve around him.


----------



## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

the_dude said:


> And I don't want to be a parent that gives up every one of my before-kid hobbies and have my life revolve around him.


Most parents that I have know that said this drove themselves bonkers and to exhaustion, and then really missed out on the few years of kid-centered things that you won't get any other way than slowing down and seeing what's going on in their little world. There's plenty of time, you'll get back into it. Plus, things don't have to be so black and white, there's a whole world of color in between. It also matters if both parents work, if they, and the wife ends up with the brunt of the work both in the house and preparing for trips, she's the one that goes bonkers. For her sake, I hope you're as committed to being a full household partner as you are to maintaining your hobbies.


----------



## Toni (Sep 18, 2006)

Couple other threads on the topic...I personally like my posts 

http://www.mountainbuzz.com/forums/...seeks-advice-and-some-random-stuff-29423.html

http://www.mountainbuzz.com/forums/f11/how-young-is-too-young-26319.html


----------



## brendodendo (Jul 18, 2004)

My related post from a few years ago:

*How old should a child be?*

And Blake is loving it now. As you can see in my avatar, he wants to be just like his daddy. And like my sig says, he wants to call the shots to. All Forward.

Were waiting on our second, 9 days overdue today, so we shall see what this summer brings for our family.


----------



## Jensjustduckie (Jun 29, 2007)

My parents have pics of me in diapers hanging out on a sandbar on the Missouri river, they had friends drop them off miles upstream of town and we would float back to town and camp a couple nights on the river.

If I survived I think other kids will probably be fine as well, if you'd car camp with your kid I don't see a reason you shouldn't overnight on a raft with them.

Also we were in canoes which are far more prone to flipping, even in flat water, than a raft.


----------



## El Flaco (Nov 5, 2003)

We took our 11 month old out on the Upper C, and decided we'd wait till he was older for the next time out. He's now 2-1/2 and we're doing the San Juan (Bluff-Mex Hat) in June. The issues we had, at his age, were as follows:

Nap schedule- If your kid desperately needs his/her naps, realize that you might be dealing with a meltdown.

Camp- If your child is still in the 'hand-to-mouth' phase, it's going to require constant work to keep them from putting sticks, sand, etc into their mouths. 

PFD's- Have them wear them a number of times before making them wear it on the river. Just because they liked it for 1 minute in your living room does not mean you won't have a screaming fit on the raft....especially if it's 2 hours past nap time because you launched 3 hours later than you planned.

Parent-On-Duty- The job of kid-watcher (mom, in our case) is pretty demanding and can make the raft trip kinda grueling at times for that parent. Because of his age, she held him the whole time (raft and camp) until he went to bed at night. 

For us, it was a lot of work and we decided to hold off for him until he was closer to 3. And since we had our 2nd last August, we didn't get the whole family out on the raft last year anyway.

I hear what some folks are saying about river dangers, but I would submit that playgrounds, the car ride to and from daycare, and, for that matter, daycare itself (RSV, strep, etc) provide more risk than a pair of watchful parents on a class I or II river. 

Some of my earliest and most vivid memories are when I was about 3 and cruising on my dad's sailboat out on a lake. Conversely, I don't recall much about the fact that my dad worked hellish hours, traveled a lot, and was rarely around most weekdays. The good stuff, while it might be considered 'risky', is what stuck and shaped me as a person.

Brendo- congrats on #2-to-be....


----------



## carvedog (May 11, 2005)

Kendi said:


> Impressive that you all want to bring your young children on the river. I hesitate to even bring my 8 yr old! Not because I fear for his safety- but I fear for my sanity! Seriously- how relaxing is it going to be going on a mellow float trip with a kid that is probably going to be hot, thirsty, and filling up lots of diapers?
> 
> But- you may have a different kid.
> 
> FWIW- I used to be a swim instructor for 18 years. Young children do not have the reasoning ability to know what to do (ie swim) if they fall in. They just don't. Even if they can swim in a pool- they lack the ability to have good judgement enough to save themselves. Just thought I'd put in my 2 cents on the matter even though it's been discussed before.


Wow sounds like you got stuck with crappy kids. My 8 yr old started at 1.5 yrs old and had a ball. Yes we had to put sunscreen on and keep a hat on her I think we went through three diapers that first day with her during a three hour float. Oh yes we had to let her drink too. That was such a pain to have a few juice boxes and sippy cups in the cooler. And had to have snacks. Then she slept for about an hour and a half. That was stressful. 

Do you go anywhere with a kid this age without having that stuff? I think not.

Not talking about class 4 here, just a float for God's sake. People get there underwear bunched up so easily sometimes.

I was actually trying to knock my 8 yr old in the water last summer cuz she was getting too cocky about sitting up on the edge of the boat fishing. I thought it would be good for her. After the first bump or two though she caught on and started watching carefully for rocks. At least she learned how to brace in. 

My little one is five now and she asked last night when we were going to go again. I take them to the local swimming hole and have been teaching them how to ferry swim for the last couple of years I think they could both make shore on their own if they had to. We have a rescue plan before we ever get to the boat, if the unimaginable happens. 

The 8 yr old has already said she wants to be a guide. Not at my urging - I know what those river guide boys are all about. Takes one to know one. And she can already give a pretty decent safety talk, throw a bag and show the downstream floating position ( no need to beat that dead horse here ) when asked to. 

Do your best to prepare and mitigate safety hazards and then live your life unafraid. Or try to. Both of my kids know I will beat their ass if they get on the boat without LJs even when it is tied up and they don't fight about it at all. 

Go. Float. Live.


----------



## peak (Apr 7, 2006)

you didn't just call someones kids crappy, did you?
if theres ever been fightin words, them are...


----------



## carvedog (May 11, 2005)

peak said:


> you didn't just call someones kids crappy, did you?
> if theres ever been fightin words, them are...


Just the way she makes them sound. But yes you are right, I could have said it differently. 

I get a little peeved about people who try to talk others out of doing outdoor recreation with their kids, because of the "What ifs...." and the "It coulds....".

I guarantee you this would be a better country if everyone took their kids rafting every weekend starting at a yr old, instead of plunking them down in front of the Disney Channel.


----------



## peak (Apr 7, 2006)

I hear you. looking forward to my boys first FLATwater overnight next month. he'll be four months old at that point...we were going to try last weekend, but weather was crap...

ever heard of Free Range Kids?
FreeRangeKids


----------



## Jensjustduckie (Jun 29, 2007)

carvedog said:


> I guarantee you this would be a better country if everyone took their kids rafting every weekend starting at a yr old, instead of plunking them down in front of the Disney Channel.


Quoted for truth


----------



## Kendi (May 15, 2009)

Carvedog- I've got thicker skin than that. 

I've got 3 boys- ages 8, 6 and 4. My 8 yr old has been on the river (III)with me as has my 6 yr old (II+). It's not as relaxing with them there but it does have it's own merits. If I'm looking for time away from my kids I go to the river. I am with them nearly all the time- so my river time is for me.

Spent a good chunk of time last year having them practice the throwbag and swimming a in current. We don't have the disney channel and my 8 yr old just passed his hunter's ed class and is now legally considered mature enough to hunt alone (not that I'd let him until he's moved out!) So we do the "nature" thing already. Hells bells- he can even build a better fire with wet wood than I can!

Just wanted to put it out there that just because "dad" thinks taking a baby on a float sounds like fun, doesn't mean it will be all sunshine and roses for whomever is stuck taking care of the kids. Kids are a lot of work on any trip. Anyone who tells you different, didn't have to take care of the kids by themselves when they went out last.

As I said before, everyone's kid is different. When I've only got one kid- it's damn near a vacation....


----------



## carvedog (May 11, 2005)

Kendi said:


> Carvedog- I've got thicker skin than that.
> 
> I've got 3 boys- ages 8, 6 and 4. My 8 yr old has been on the river (III)with me as has my 6 yr old (II+). It's not as relaxing with them there but it does have it's own merits. If I'm looking for time away from my kids I go to the river. I am with them nearly all the time- so my river time is for me.


Thanks for not taking offense. I didn't have my rant aimed at you to be certain in spite of the quote. 

I have had my girls down the Middle Fork Salmon at 4 1/2 ( just the older one, but it was off the top - she slept through Velvet and Haystack ) and from Indian Cr down with both my girls at 3 1/2 and 7, and then again last fall at 4 1/2 and 8. These were the best trips I have ever done and the kids think so too. So does my wife for that matter. Caveats are that I have done this river a ton, I made them walk around a couple of things and they had a bunch of days on day trips before we ever considered doing this. We actually did an overnight on our day stretch near Stanley to get them geared up for it. 

My avatar is my oldest practicing dunking before I would let her go on that first trip. 

If someone is unsure of their river skills, rescue techniques or rescue swimming they should leave the mighty mites at home. We always had a plan of what we would do if the F word happened ( rhymes with skip). Who would go for which kid etc.. 
I don't think I have ever boated better than when my whole family was on board with me. 

These trips are a powerful motivator for us and them to get all the swimming and swim lessons in that we can handle. Hasn't happened yet, but it will almost certainly if we keep doing this.


----------



## the_dude (May 31, 2006)

lhowemt said:


> Most parents that I have know that said this drove themselves bonkers and to exhaustion, and then really missed out on the few years of kid-centered things that you won't get any other way than slowing down and seeing what's going on in their little world. There's plenty of time, you'll get back into it. Plus, things don't have to be so black and white, there's a whole world of color in between. It also matters if both parents work, if they, and the wife ends up with the brunt of the work both in the house and preparing for trips, she's the one that goes bonkers. For her sake, I hope you're as committed to being a full household partner as you are to maintaining your hobbies.


Thanks for thinking of my wife. I'm sure she would appreciate that. In reality, I do about 99% of the packing for our trips. The only thing she has to do is pack her clothes, even in the summers when she's at home on summer vacation (she's a teacher) and I'm working.

And I guess "slowing down" would be why I only have 4 ski days this winter opposed to 20+ last winter and most winters before our son joined us. Or why I generally only ride my bike at lunch on weekdays now so that I can be home for the 2+ hours that he's awake after I get home from work. Or why I probably won't do much kayaking this summer and bought a bigger raft over the winter to accommodate the extra person now in our family. Yes life has slowed down for us quite a bit, but more importantly it has changed what we perceive as priorities in each of our lives.

Everyone else - good points, esp. about naps and eating sand and sticks on the beach. We haven't quite solved the nap on the boat issue yet and hadn't thought about the "hand to mouth" stuff.


----------



## TakemetotheRiver (Oct 4, 2007)

As they get older, nap time becomes less of a problem...


----------



## mprobst (Oct 13, 2003)

Another thing we have acquired as the kids get older is a pacific river bag. once they are big enough and want to climb around the raft, I had fears of a sandal getting caught in the gear pile or cargo net, and a head under water when they slip. when I saw the bag, I loved how it straps to the d-rings and frame, has a closure at the top, and then a nice big cover that also straps down to the d-rings, way less for the kids to get caught up on when they climb around. now just need to get some counterbalanced oars, and in a few years they can row the raft while I kayak again.


----------



## carvedog (May 11, 2005)

Something about being down around the flying B puts my kids to sleep.
Couple years before my oldest slept through Haystack.
This is my youngest - still holding on asleep at the B last September.


----------



## the_dude (May 31, 2006)

great photos.


----------



## Arn (Nov 8, 2003)

We took our daughter down Ruby Horsethief at 7 months and literally strapped the pack and play (open) down on the back bay of the raft. Worked great when she had to nap and could not stand being held anymore. Most of the time she was on our laps though and always in a life jacket. We still had fun and don't recall much drama. Just make sure you have others on the trip to give you a little break. The pack and play was also great on the beaches and in the tent.


----------



## GoodTimes (Mar 9, 2006)

My parents started taking me rafting when I was 3.....on class III....pops and grandpops rowed while mom (who is an excellent swimmer) held on to me. As I understand it (because I can't remember all the details) I had the time of my life....everytime.

So I'll be taking my kids rafting pretty early. Floats for the first few years because I see VERY VERY little risk in floating....then bumping it up a bit based upon my little ones comfort.


----------



## BLott (Mar 27, 2010)

thanks for the great pictures and info in this thread. We are introducing both of our kids to the river this year can't wait!


----------



## brendodendo (Jul 18, 2004)

Thought I'd post a couple to.









He has a blast on the banks and on the boat. At 2.5 years old, he was just getting the feeling of learning to paddle. Can not wait for more action this summer.


----------



## swiftwater15 (Feb 23, 2009)

*Kid Rafting*
















You have to start them early, before they become little video game addicts.


----------



## vardaddy (Jun 14, 2004)

My daughter is 14 months. She went down a section of the flathead river last summer on a short 2 hour float when she was 5 months. My wife held her most of the time either in a sling or on her lap. She had a blast when we stopped putting her toes in the water and looking at/picking up rocks when we pulled over to fish. Yes you do have to watch what they put in their mouths but I wouldn't say it was stressful. I recommend the first trip you do with them make sure it is fairly short and plan to even stop often. That was easy because that gave some time to fish. 
My daughter did her second trip an overnight on Ruby Horsetheif this October at 8 months. She again had a blast. We used a big tarp to solve the problem of sand and sticks. She got a little fussy the 2nd day but then fell asleep. Both times she has not had a problem sleeping on the raft. We used a little blow up duck bathtub that we stick in the bottom of the front bay of the raft which she enjoyed sitting in when sick of being held and played with toys. It helped keep her out of the water. I was planning to use an old pack and play and strap it to the raft but my wife gave it away before she knew what I had planned to use it for. The blow up duck worked great though. My wife was also breastfeeding on both trips so that helped with getting her to fall asleep. I plan to take her out this summer some more. My guess is it might be a little more difficult with her so much more mobile but she still enjoys someone holding her plenty as it is so not expecting a problem. 

Make sure your floats leave plenty of time for stopping but I also believe there are far more dangerous situations than a flatwater float. It is helpful to have at least a second passenger to help too in addition to you and your wife. Also umbrella important for the sun.


----------



## vardaddy (Jun 14, 2004)

Here is a shot of her playing on shore


----------



## vardaddy (Jun 14, 2004)

here is one of her on the raft


----------



## yak1 (Jan 28, 2006)

Hey the biggest deal with little kids is loss of body heat. They can float like a cork in your pfd or fall right out of it. Hypothermia is the killer if the PFD is snug and stays on. Figure out how to keep them warm in the water and get them a helmet. I don't think it's a great idea but it's your kid and the state has some fine institutions down in Canyon City if you screw up and the kid gets dead or daim bramaged. What ever you do make light of moving water. Remember a kid that small can drowned in a bath tub with a couple inches of water.


----------



## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

Sweet photos! There really is nothing like a family recreating together. Good for you all for making it work at whatever age. Seeing those little tykes rowing and paddling, so nice. Yeah, get them young before game-boys and such, and before they get distracted by puberty and want nothing to do with anything you do! Very good points. Good luck and smooth boating to all parents this season.


----------



## jgrebe (Jan 16, 2010)

Subjective perhaps but there are basic facts that are not really debatable. A 3-4 year old can understand the concept of danger - maybe not the nuances but at least understand that falling into the water is not a good thing. A 3-4 year old can understand verbal commands and react. If taught, a 3-4 year old can swim and should be relatively safe in flat water if they fall in (with a PFD of course). A 3-4 year old can enjoy the experienced for what it is - an exciting adventure, and can have interactions with their parents, other kids and nature. An infant can do none of these things. They are basically a package there for the pleasure and convienence of their parents. Sure, they receive stimulation, but at seven months they would benefit just as much from a camping trip or a hike, where the consequences of a moment of inattention by their parents is not generally fatal. In the end everything is a risk reward decision. I see very little reward for an infant on a raft and lots of risk


----------



## TakemetotheRiver (Oct 4, 2007)

Put them to work early too. He caught a 15" catfish on that willow stick.


----------



## carvedog (May 11, 2005)

yak1 said:


> Hey the biggest deal with little kids is loss of body heat. They can float like a cork in your pfd or fall right out of it. Hypothermia is the killer if the PFD is snug and stays on. Figure out how to keep them warm in the water and get them a helmet. I don't think it's a great idea but it's your kid and the state has some fine institutions down in Canyon City if you screw up and the kid gets dead or daim bramaged. What ever you do make light of moving water. Remember a kid that small can drowned in a bath tub with a couple inches of water.


Translation please? Hypo if the PFD stays on???? make light of moving water???

Huh?

BTW - sweet LJ for your little one vardaddy. I cannot let my daughters see that or it will be all new LJs as I told them they don't come in pink.


----------



## LloydSwartz (Jun 24, 2008)

Great information. I believe rafting is a family sport myself, and am jonesing with a 6 month old this season. I decided to wait until next year, and give some flat stuff a shot at 18 months, such as San Juan. We tend to be a little crazy though, as he has already been on 6 or 7 camping/ caving trips. Sounds like I wont be the most insane doing some trips at 18 months.....


----------



## kazak4x4 (May 25, 2009)

Food for thought

ksl.com - Stranger rescues Utah family from frigid Colo. River

I am launching for a 5 day trip in 2 weeks taking both my 7 year olds. Be careful out there.

Alex


----------



## TakemetotheRiver (Oct 4, 2007)

kazak4x4 said:


> Food for thought
> 
> ksl.com - Stranger rescues Utah family from frigid Colo. River
> 
> ...


It didn't say what stretch. Is that the Daily? I've never heard of a rapid called Trash Compactor near Moab.


----------



## kazak4x4 (May 25, 2009)

They said somewhere else it was a daily, but I don't know what that rapid is. The only serious enough rapid to possibly flip a raft on there is White rapid...


----------



## Emmielou (May 1, 2007)

Think of how different that story would have been if it was the 11 month-old that got separated and not the father. If there is a feature big enough to flip a boat, an 11-month-old kid should not be onboard. Granted, in the end it's up to the parents, but this story could have easily been about a guy who drowned after jumping into the Colorado River without a PFD to rescue a toddler who had been separated from his family. 

Or maybe parents should be more selective about when they take their young kids on the river - i.e. not in early april when the river is only 50-degrees. A young child doesn't have the body mass to stay warm as long as adults, or even their 3-year old siblings.


----------



## FatmanZ (Sep 15, 2004)

Another version of the incident:

Passerby helps save Utahns from Colorado River rafting accident | Deseret News


----------



## summitraftgirl (Jul 23, 2008)

My husband and I have done the Daily many times, but we can't place where this rapid is. Can someone give more insight as to the location of the rapid? I agree with kazak4x4 - the only rapid I would think could potentially flip a raft would be White's, and I wouldn't think it would be that dangerous to a competent boater at these lower flows. I did check on Eddyflower and they do list Trash Compactor as a rapid, but there isn't a description and the picture shows a kayak playing in what looks to be a small hole that you could definitely skirt. Just wondering if anyone knows more about the rapid. Kind of surprised to hear about this happening on this stretch of river, but happy that everyone is okay.


----------



## kazak4x4 (May 25, 2009)

Last year we did manage to flip a 14' paddle raft in the flat section of Yampa, the guys managed to find a hole somehow! So anything is possible. From the picture it looked like the boat wasn't a paddle boat and had a frame on it. So must be one of those freak accidents. I wonder if the kids were in wet suits and/or dry suits.

I purchased Kokatat dry suits for my little ones, I got 2 sizes larger to make it last for them and I feel a ton better now about doing big rivers with them now.


----------



## Ikedub (May 30, 2008)

I just posted this on the access page. It has me wondering if I should bring the little one anytime soon. I've been "on the fence" for awhile about when the right age is. 

I just had a friend pass this along:

"If anyone is floating the Upper Dolores run between Big Rock and town over the next couple of days, bring some wire cutters! There's a 3-4 strand wire fence spanning the river about 1/3 the way down the run to town. The fence is about 100 yards past the dog-leg to the left that has a 2-3 foot drop on river right. When we floated it yesterday, the fence was about 6 inches off the water at river center, about 2 feet high at the river edges. If the river keeps rising, it may not be an issue. If it stays low, beware that you may have to do the limbo in kayaks or duckys. I found out the hard way that I'm not very good at limbo."

This leads me back to the topic of babies and boating. I have a 15 month old that was going with my wife and I on her first trip yesterday with this group until the water dropped yesterday. I've done this trip 50 times and figured it was a good time to bring the little one before some asshole strings a fence across the river. There aren't any livestock in this area.


----------



## ccombs (Mar 17, 2004)

TakemetotheRiver said:


> It didn't say what stretch. Is that the Daily? I've never heard of a rapid called Trash Compactor near Moab.


The trash compactor is a hole on river right about 200 yards down stream from big sandy beach. Its a great kayak play spot at around 3000cfs and turns into a wave at around 5000 cfs. when its a hole if you were to hit it sideways could flip a raft but it is super easy to miss, or just plow through.


----------

