# Homeowner's Insurance and Replacing Lost / Stolen Gear



## Andy H. (Oct 13, 2003)

All,

Recently there was a stolen boat in the L&F and the discussion got me thinking about what I'd be out to replace my gear if someone rolled off with trailer, fully-rigged raft, gear, etc. if I were heading to the river for a multi-day. So I emailed my insurance agent and discovered they'll cover "$2,000 for a small watercraft."

This wouldn't even cover the rubber, much less the gear. I tossed the agent what I thought was a very generous amount for the replacement and he asked for a list and the replacement value. We kicked it around a bit and basically the deal is this:

They'll cover the $2,000 for "small watercraft" then coverage for "personal property" kicks in up to the policy limits. With my policy at least, it covers full replacement value.

Reading between the lines of this interaction, I think would be very helpful to have such an itemized list on hand and to have provided it to your agent. 

So while things are slow and you're putting stuff away for the end of the season it may be a good idea to take the laptop out when you *go through your gear, put together a list of all the stuff you've accumulated over the years, put some MSRP pricing with it, & send to your insurance agent*. Hopefully you'll never need to use it, but if you did, it'll be good to have for insurance agents that aren't really familiar with our stuff.

-AH


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## Will Amette (Jan 28, 2017)

I bought a boat policy for my raft and appurtenances. It was surprisingly affordable. It will not only cover theft but damage in transport or.... You know. While I don't like to pay the bill every year, it's just $84 for $10K of coverage. Well worth it if I ever need it; waste of money if I never do. I think I had insured my sea kayak for a while, but it didn't make sense because they had a minimum premium.

Insuring the trailer was even cheaper at under $16 and covers damage whether it's hitched to my truck or not.


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## B4otter (Apr 20, 2009)

Along with figuring out what your investment is, take some photos...


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## Andy H. (Oct 13, 2003)

B4otter said:


> Along with figuring out what your investment is, take some photos...


Thanks for reminding me - yeah, nothing like a photo showing that, yes I really DO have a gazillion straps of all these different lengths. Lay it all out and get photos, and don't forget captian's bags, PFDs, helmets, spash gear, river knife, sand stake, and all the rest of that stuff. Think about what you'd have to go out and buy if your rig got ripped off. It's pretty sobering and you'll be surprised at what you'd pay at full retail for all that stuff.

And the idea of insurance for a trailer whether it's hitched or not, sounds good because I've seen what thieves do to cars they steal.. The owner may get it back but it may never be the same again.

-AH


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## sarahkonamojo (May 20, 2004)

Yes. Experienced this first hand. 3 kayaks and 2 bikes stolen from garage. Bikes were covered but not the kayaks.


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## paor (Apr 21, 2008)

Andy H. said:


> Thanks for reminding me - yeah, nothing like a photo showing that, yes I really DO have a gazillion straps of all these different lengths. Lay it all out and get photos, and don't forget captian's bags, PFDs, helmets, spash gear, river knife, sand stake, and all the rest of that stuff. Think about what you'd have to go out and buy if your rig got ripped off. It's pretty sobering and you'll be surprised at what you'd pay at full retail for all that stuff.
> 
> And the idea of insurance for a trailer whether it's hitched or not, sounds good because I've seen what thieves do to cars they steal.. The owner may get it back but it may never be the same again.
> 
> -AH


I had friends who lost a bunch of their stuff (non-boaters but climbers, skiers, mt. bikers, etc.) due a house fire. They couldn't believe how much the "little" stuff was adding up. It was easy to identify the skis, boots, etc., but the smaller things ended up costing nearly as much.

Good reminder to inventory and photograph your stuff just in case.


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## Andy H. (Oct 13, 2003)

sarahkonamojo said:


> Yes. Experienced this first hand. 3 kayaks and 2 bikes stolen from garage. Bikes were covered but not the kayaks.


Wow, that's a drag. Why weren't the kayaks covered?


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## sarahkonamojo (May 20, 2004)

Andy H. said:


> Wow, that's a drag. Why weren't the kayaks covered?


In my case, State Farm? it was awhile ago. Maximum coverage on boats was $1k. Did not matter that there were 3. One boat was custom fiberglass, $2k. Good idea to check with your insurer!


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## Norcalcoastie (Jan 4, 2019)

Yep. I have a policy through State Farm for both my raft, rigging, equipment, trailer and my photography equipment. It's a bit of work to document all the high value items (including serial numbers, etc) but the cost is what I think to be crazy cheap. A 0$ deductible plan for over 15k in coverage is like 10$ a month. A few years back, after a long trip I found out the hard way that my camera bag (with over 5k of stuff in it) was water logged. A call to State Farm was quickly received, friendly, and a check was sent to my house about 10 days later. Couldn't believe how easy it was. Stranger, they let me keep the old water damaged equipment. I later sold some of it on ebay for parts. 

To be clear, my boat and equipment have their own policy. This is in addition to my home owners, cars, etc. policies.


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## Andy H. (Oct 13, 2003)

sarahkonamojo said:


> Maximum coverage on boats was $1k. Did not matter that there were 3. One boat was custom fiberglass, $2k. Good idea to check with your insurer!


Thanks Sarah.

Yowch! I just checked and it looks like they'll replace up to the my personal property limit in-country.

Glad I'm checking on this stuff now (and keeping the documentation I get from the agent!) instead of finding out the hard way later.


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## DoStep (Jun 26, 2012)

I had a good friend who suffered a house fire which was a total loss. While it seems the adjuster was cooperative, the policy called for 250K for 'personal property'. My friend was pleased with the offer, but the adjuster told him to not get excited because it likely won't be close to covering everything that needed replacing, including expensive camera equipment (which he photo/video logged), furniture, beds, appliances, kitchenware, clothing, and, and, and, ......... and so on. The guy was right and my friend shocked how far 250K did not go. His lesson to us: photo/video logs went a long way to making him whole and saved his ass.


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## Pinchecharlie (Jul 27, 2017)

This guy last week! I dont know if its a good option now but years ago when I was doing surf photography I got a AAA insurance deal for cheap for camera and sports gear. I had a large camera bag with laptop and all my water housing stuff stolen and they replaced it no worries. But now that iam adulting I think I'll call my regular guy cause it would cost alot to loose our stuff!


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## B4otter (Apr 20, 2009)

Apparently "adulting" and maturing are not the same thing...


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## Pinchecharlie (Jul 27, 2017)

(Fart noise)...😁


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## Baetis (Apr 1, 2014)

B4otter said:


> Along with figuring out what your investment is, take some photos...


Read about this suggestion a few years ago. I have taken pics of EVERYTHING in our house and garage, every room, every cupboard, every closet, nook and cranny.


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

Norcalcoastie said:


> Yep. I have a policy through State Farm for both my raft, rigging, equipment, trailer and my photography equipment. It's a bit of work to document all the high value items (including serial numbers, etc) but the cost is what I think to be crazy cheap. A 0$ deductible plan for over 15k in coverage is like 10$ a month. A few years back, after a long trip I found out the hard way that my camera bag (with over 5k of stuff in it) was water logged. A call to State Farm was quickly received, friendly, and a check was sent to my house about 10 days later. Couldn't believe how easy it was. Stranger, they let me keep the old water damaged equipment. I later sold some of it on ebay for parts.
> 
> To be clear, my boat and equipment have their own policy. This is in addition to my home owners, cars, etc. policies.


I have a policy that covers my Dory and trailer, 18 bucks a month thru my insurance, American Family, for 30K. The caveat is the boat isn't covered while it's on the river, and the trailer is only covered when it's attached to one of my covered vehicles OR sitting unattached, and then only with a driver that's listed on the policy. SO, shuttle drivers aren't covered if they cause damage to my trailer, however they ARE covered if they damage the tow vehicle, but that falls under the comprehensive / collission rider on my auto policy. 

I didn't know this until this thread, and the one on RRT shuttle causing damage, prompted me to check yesterday with my agent. I mistakenly thought I was covered on the water as well as on land, and the trailer was covered no matter who was driving. Might, for peace of mind, check the limitations of the coverage, terms and conditions. 

Now, in the interest of full disclosure, I purchased the policy when the Decker fire started, the minute I heard about it, as it was 5 miles away from me, the Dory is a 25K$ wooden boat, and I live in the mountains east of Salida. I was more interested in protecting it against fire when I purchased the policy.


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## Baetis (Apr 1, 2014)

MNichols said:


> I have a policy that covers my Dory and trailer, 18 bucks a month thru my insurance, American Family, for 30K. The caveat is the boat isn't covered while it's on the river, and the trailer is only covered when it's attached to one of my covered vehicles OR sitting unattached, and then only with a driver that's listed on the policy. SO, shuttle drivers aren't covered if they cause damage to my trailer, however they ARE covered if they damage the tow vehicle, but that falls under the comprehensive / collission rider on my auto policy.
> 
> I didn't know this until this thread, and the one on RRT shuttle causing damage, prompted me to check yesterday with my agent. I mistakenly thought I was covered on the water as well as on land, and the trailer was covered no matter who was driving. Might, for peace of mind, check the limitations of the coverage, terms and conditions.
> 
> Now, in the interest of full disclosure, I purchased the policy when the Decker fire started, the minute I heard about it, as it was 5 miles away from me, the Dory is a 25K$ wooden boat, and I live in the mountains east of Salida. I was more interested in protecting it against fire when I purchased the policy.


Wow. My policy covers the raft and trailer wherever it is, full replacement value AND if it should somehow flip in the river and needs to be recovered. $130/yr.


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

Damn, the cost of a helo recovery in GC is covered for 130.00 a year? 

Who's your carrier ?


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## Baetis (Apr 1, 2014)

Markel. through USAA. And I also am in Salida.


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

Nice, I'm in Howard. I've been meaning to get a quote from USAA, but AMFAM has been SO good to us over 20 years I suspect I've become complacent and just pay the premiums.. Thanks for the intel..


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## B4otter (Apr 20, 2009)

I was with USAA for 30 years, switched a few years back for earthquake coverage (to Amica). Not everyone is eligible for USAA, and when I had insurance (additional rider for boats and RV) with them, they surely wouldn't pay for boat recovery from GC, because I asked them. If they do now, great!


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## Baetis (Apr 1, 2014)

It was one of the perqs they told me about when I was signing up.


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## DarrylH (Mar 10, 2015)

As part of my homeowners policy I have a rider that covers $22k of raft & gear for $124 per year - my agent asked for a general category list and value - it's amazing how much we've got invested (and I'm sure it doesn't come close). 
General rule for insurance companies is if it's unusual or expensive, they don't cover it - cameras, guns, jewelry, and collectibles are worth asking about. Will they pay for depreciated value or full replacement cost? Homeowners policies also cover general liability - you hate to think about ever needing it...
My trailer is covered similarly by rider on the auto policy for $24. Both policies are with Auto-Owners.


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

B4otter said:


> I was with USAA for 30 years, switched a few years back for earthquake coverage (to Amica). Not everyone is eligible for USAA, and when I had insurance (additional rider for boats and RV) with them, they surely wouldn't pay for boat recovery from GC, because I asked them. If they do now, great!


That's true, USAA is specifically for members of the US military and their families, they don't insure the general public at large. I'm going to check on this though, one thing in
Baetis favor might be that he went thru Markel Specialty Insurance, and USAA underwrote it, Specialty & Small Business Insurance | Markel Specialty is the link. Markel is a high risk insurer, motorcycles, horses, livestock, small business etc.

Markel is a specialty insurance carrier, and that may be the difference in the insurance coverage's and policy inclusions. Is north of 15 grand to have a boat choppered out of GC, unfortunately I know this first hand, so insurance, no matter how costly would have ended up being a good deal in my case. I've been down quite a bit, and never thought I'd need it (cause I'm gods gift to boating LOL) and then all the sudden, I did.. Sucked to be me then. Thankfully the NPS flew my happy ass out for free... 

Gonna check it out anyway, as I really need to shop my insurance, haven't done it in 10 years, will let ya all know what I find out.


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## B4otter (Apr 20, 2009)

Glad your "happy ass" is o.k. but it wasn't transported "for free." The lift to the rim is covered out of the $110 per participant NPS fee. As long as you have a legitimate medical emergency, the heli ride is covered. You pay for ambulance to Flag or whatever happens after that, as I'm sure you found out...
Way back when (until the late 70's ?) evacs from the Canyon were DIY (with notification to NPS). And the evacuee paid all the cost, which was hefty. But it got real complicated as numbers swelled, since coordination required between NPS, FAA, the companies handling the evac (mostly out of Page or Las Vegas), etc. So at some point the decision was made to just go have one central system, what is now Grand Canyon Dispatch (928) 638-7911.
But you're paying for those evacs through your permit fees. Just another example of that creeping socialism we're all so opposed to... (sorry, couldn't resist).


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

Thanks.. I guess I should have said, for no additional out of pocket expense.. I'm EMS in really rural Colorado, we use air ambulances all the time, and if you don't have the Air Med Care insurance, which costs 62 bucks a year and covers your entire family, the bill can be staggering, north of 25 thousand to fly 18 minutes from here to the front range. It cost me nothing additional out of pocket once the sedated me enough to actually get in the damn thing. As an aside, my friend that works for the NPS sent me this, and related I was lucky to be where they could land, or they would have dropped personnel from the chopper, put me in this rigging they affectionately call a screamer suit and airlifted me that way. 









I don't effing think so....


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

Ok, here's the scoop from USAA. They don't THINK they would cover a helo evac for equipment from GC, the rep I spoke to said he would have to talk to an underwriter to find out for sure. When I told them about Baetis's assertion that he was told they do cover that, and I'd want hard verbiage written into the policy, he waffled back and forth, with a whole lot of maybe's, and possibility's, and he'd have to check. He said it would help if he had the policy language that said that was covered. 

Said he'd get back to me in the coming week with an answer and my quote.


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## B4otter (Apr 20, 2009)

So if Baetis or Markel can give you the language you'd be able to get definitive answer from USAA?
Interested because I'm a member and would definitely go back to them if they cover boat evacs. As I said previously, I specifically asked about this back in the 2000's (maybe 2007?) and was told no, while they'll insure against theft, damage while traveling, etc. they would NOT cover recovery from rivers...


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