# Cat and gear in the Room of Doom



## steveskinner

Saw an abandoned cat and all the fixins in the room of doom on Monday, May 9. Apparently the incident happened on Saturday. Does anyone have any details?


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## SKeen

Room of doom on which river? There are many...


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## steveskinner

*Westwater*

I only know of one Room of Doom and that's at the bottom of Skull rapid in Westwater Canyon of the Colorado.


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## Floatin mucho

I believe there is a room of doom on the Gauley also... The one below Skull is much more significant.


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## dirtbagkayaker

steveskinner said:


> I only know of one Room of Doom and that's at the bottom of Skull rapid in Westwater Canyon of the Colorado.


Me too! but it seems that everywhere I go someone is talking about the room of doom as through it is a river feature?? Like a eddy that's hard to get out of. I heard someone referring to the ROM in pistol rapid on the MFS last week. IDK, I think I'm getting old because all the new schoolers have renamed everything or maybe I just had the names wrong all along.


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## spencerhenry

it did not happen saturday. it happened at least after 11:00 on sunday, that is when myself and two other cats went past there. there was some gear in the room of doom on sunday morning. it looked like a red PFD and maybe a couple of other small items. water on sunday was running right at 12k. we passed no other camps that morning and only passed one camp the night before, i do not recall if that camp had a cat parked there.


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## Blade&Shaft

Junk show yard sale


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## pinemnky13

My girlfriend call our boudoir the room of doom, that spot on Westwater below skull is known as the Australian funnel


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## steveskinner

The ranger said that it happened on Saturday. There was a lot of stuff in the room, including a cataraft that was beat to shit - aluminum frame, broken oars, ammo cans, dry bags. Came to the edge of the eddy and then spun back. Depending on your timing and whether you were looking, you may have missed seeing the boat.


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## steveskinner

The ranger said it happened Saturday ...


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## Tyrrache

dirtbagkayaker said:


> Me too! but it seems that everywhere I go someone is talking about the room of doom as through it is a river feature?? Like a eddy that's hard to get out of. I heard someone referring to the ROM in pistol rapid on the MFS last week. IDK, I think I'm getting old because all the new schoolers have renamed everything or maybe I just had the names wrong all along.


There's also a "Room of Doom" on the Upper Taos box. 

Maybe it's time to rename the feature below Skull Rapid as it is so unique?

Satan's Eddy?

Hell's Eddy Fence?

Satan's Split?

Faust's Eddy Fence?

Dante's Dungeon?


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## miker

So there is a Cat just sitting in the Room with no owners or anyone trying to pull it out? Weird.


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## azpowell

so are they leaving it in there until after high water? it seems odd that no one in that group tried taking it out over the wall....


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## spencerhenry

i saw something red in the room from above, as i went by i tried to see if there was a person still in it. it appeared to be just a few small items. if there was a cat in there, it was deflated and below the surface. i rowed back up as far as i could and looked trying to determine what was in there for several minutes. there was nothing floating higher than a couple inches above the water, the red pfd was the highest thing out of the water.


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## nemi west

Room of doom of Fikes creek. Tributary of the Big Sandy, tributary of the mighty Cheat


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## captishmael

There is only one Room of Doom. It is on the Colorado in Westwater at the bottom end of Skull Rapid, river right. All others are pretenders.
Someone told me there are other Skull rapids also. Might as well tell Lebowski there is more than one dude.


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## Bmcgary

Hi Steve, 
I was on that cat. We flipped in the hole at Skull on Sunday afternoon, probably around 1:15pm. It was a pretty crazy afternoon. We just picked up (what's left of) the tubes and frame, got one Paco pad and two dry bags. Sounds like it was released sometime Monday night, and the boat was spotted by a commercial down by Dewey bridge on Tuesday afternoon. Had another group scoop up a dry bag by the room on Tuesday. It's been wild, slowly picking up the pieces. Heard there's still a white yeti, red dry bag and possibly some ammos still floating in the room, if anyone grabs them, please let us know. Hope you guys had a good run! Cheers, 
Blair


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## Blade&Shaft

What a mess! Hope you get all your shit back!


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## RYGUY78

I saw it flip and go in with my own eyes. It happened Sunday around 2pm. We had a swimmer who ended up in there just before the cat went in. We roped her out from above. As soon as I eddied out, I looked upstream and that cat was flipping and went in. We talked to the owner at the cisco takeout and he said that two of the cone chambers popped and it was about to sink etc.


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## RYGUY78

Bmcgary said:


> Hi Steve,
> I was on that cat. We flipped in the hole at Skull on Sunday afternoon, probably around 1:15pm. It was a pretty crazy afternoon. We just picked up (what's left of) the tubes and frame, got one Paco pad and two dry bags. Sounds like it was released sometime Monday night, and the boat was spotted by a commercial down by Dewey bridge on Tuesday afternoon. Had another group scoop up a dry bag by the room on Tuesday. It's been wild, slowly picking up the pieces. Heard there's still a white yeti, red dry bag and possibly some ammos still floating in the room, if anyone grabs them, please let us know. Hope you guys had a good run! Cheers,
> Blair



That's awesome that it came out. We talked at the takeout as our large group was gearing down. I hope you can recover your stuff man. Good luck, be well.


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## spencerhenry

i went by a few hours before this event took place. whatever the red thing was, it was not a part of this event.


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## RYGUY78

spencerhenry said:


> i went by a few hours before this event took place. whatever the red thing was, it was not a part of this event.


...random red PFD


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## Bmcgary

spencerhenry said:


> i went by a few hours before this event took place. whatever the red thing was, it was not a part of this event.


There was a red pfd in the room when we went in.


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## mattman

Glad it sounds like your all okay, and hope ya get your stuff back! No, there is no other ROD, rest are miss named.


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## azpowell

so where you guys taking the hero line down skull?


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## RYGUY78

I was solo, entered a little right of center, surfed those laterals a bit then pulled like hell and eddied out when my buddy just ahead of me blew the whistle. Sooooo, kinda. Haha.


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## DoStep

That sounds like it was an exciting run.

Looks like things are going to really start running, time to put on the big pants for the next month or so. Yampa is already over 14K, so Cataract must be at/over 30K. Another Pacific storm coming our way next week too. Rig for flip to say the least.

And ya, there is only one room of doom.



My group often refers to the sock-it-to-me eddy as the 'closet of doom'.


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## dirtbagkayaker

Bmcgary said:


> Hi Steve,
> We flipped in the hole at Skull ..........Sunday around 1:15pm.
> 
> 
> ........ it was released sometime Monday night,


This is why there is only one room of doom. There can be no others! :mrgreen:


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## spider

Room o doom is no joke. There is only one. And WTF with those silly cones on nrs cat tubes????? Just say no to caulk.


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## spider

RYGUY78 said:


> I saw it flip and go in with my own eyes. It happened Sunday around 2pm. We had a swimmer who ended up in there just before the cat went in. We roped her out from above. As soon as I eddied out, I looked upstream and that cat was flipping and went in. We talked to the owner at the cisco takeout and he said that two of the cone chambers popped and it was about to sink etc.


See above. I'm assuming cone chambers means nrs cones.


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## Rich

DoStep said:


> Looks like things are going to really start running, time to put on the big pants for the next month or so. Yampa is already over 14K, so Cataract must be at/over 30K. Another Pacific storm coming our way next week too. Rig for flip to say the least.
> .


I wonder if there is a gauge malfunction somewhere.
Cross Mtn shows 8700 and the Yampa at Deer Lodge Park shows 14,300?
Hard to imagine 5600cfs in the Little Snake River.


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## Fishn

Sent from my iPhone using Mountain Buzz


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## tommycolorado

Holy crapola!! Can't wait to hear the full story!!


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## Rich

Fishn said:


> View attachment 11495
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Mountain Buzz


Had no idea the Little Snake ever hit those levels in a normal year.
Always seems it is more in the one to two thousand range.
Thanks


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## Tyrrache

captishmael said:


> There is only one Room of Doom. It is on the Colorado in Westwater at the bottom end of Skull Rapid, river right. All others are pretenders.
> Someone told me there are other Skull rapids also. Might as well tell Lebowski there is more than one dude.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqcLjcSloXs

Couldn't resist


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## BLM_Moab

The flip occurred on Sunday and the boat, badly damaged, was returned to the owners yesterday. The boat floated out of the Room of Doom on its own and made its way down to Dewey Bridge before being picked up by a diligent commercial outfitter. I suggested that they make a post on here in case others find any of their gear. I do have contact information for them and I would be happy to return any gear folks find in an effort to keep good river karma for all.


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## jakebrown98

I live in Oregon. I've boated Westwater only once, more than a decade ago. 

I knew exactly the spot that was begin discussed in the first post. 

THE Room of Doom is only at Skull. 

You Rocky Mountain/Canyon Country boaters enjoy all that big water.


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## Phil U.

So, here are a couple questions for all my provincial western boater friends... Which river do you think was boated first, Westwater or the Upper Gauley? Is one more worthy than the other? How many have been in the room on both rios? Which is more dangerous? IMHO, its the perfect name for both features...


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## crispy

jakebrown98 said:


> THE Room of Doom is only at Skull.


Indeed, nowhere else can you find the Skull to rock-of-shock to room-of-doom combo!


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## snowjunkie

Just hanging around


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## snowjunkie

http://www.mountainbuzz.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=11500&stc=1&d=1463083684


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## Electric-Mayhem

Phil U. said:


> So, here are a couple questions for all my provincial western boater friends... Which river do you think was boated first, Westwater or the Upper Gauley? Is one more worthy than the other? How many have been in the room on both rios? Which is more dangerous? IMHO, its the perfect name for both features...


Looking at videos of the Gauley one....I don't think there is much comparison. The Gauley one is tiny in comparison (more a breakfast nook of doom) and unless you act kinda dumb looks pretty easy to escape from. 

The Westwater one, at least for rafts, is a big deal if you get caught in it at certain flows. Low water its fine, just get some momentum and paddle out. High water and its not hard to get flushed in there and its pretty much impossible to get out without de-rigging the boat and carrying all the gear up and over a sketchy cliff face (or hoping you get lucky before the raft gets torn apart). Oh, and if you do manage to row your way out, the current pushes you directly into a big undercut wall that can easily flip a boat and there isn't much time before the next rapid to recover so its going to be an epic experience. I'll admit that it might be much easier for Kayaks to get in and out of there, so its mostly "doomy" for rafts and catarafts.

People can call stuff whatever they want....but for me the Westwater one is the one I think of when someone says "Room of Doom". Your results may vary.


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## seantana

Electric-Mayhem said:


> The Westwater one, at least for rafts, is a big deal if you get caught in it at certain flows. Low water its fine, just get some momentum and paddle out. High water and its not hard to get flushed in there and its pretty much impossible to get out without de-rigging the boat and carrying all the gear up and over a sketchy cliff face (or hoping you get lucky before the raft gets torn apart). Oh, and if you do manage to row your way out, the current pushes you directly into a big undercut wall that can easily flip a boat and there isn't much time before the next rapid to recover so its going to be an epic experience. I'll admit that it might be much easier for Kayaks to get in and out of there, so its mostly "doomy" for rafts and catarafts.


You mean like this? 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhWtGeGYwsw&ab_channel=CodyStout


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## SKeen

You western boaters are probably gonna talk a bunch more shit but don't forget the room of doom on the Winny. 

American Whitewater - 2. Cross Mill bridge road to Franklin, Winnipesaukee New Hampshire, US


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## Gremlin

seantana said:


> You mean like this?
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhWtGeGYwsw&ab_channel=CodyStout


One more pull Harold!!!


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## Phil U.

Well, I've swum into the room on Westwater, something about a big rubber undercut wrapped in front of me. Used my boat to fend/pivot off the wall as in Nealy. You western boyze may not understand that reference. Did not like the looks of that pillowed wall. But the room on the Gauley has a sievey slot in the back of it that scares me much more. There are other Rooms of Doom, some much, much more dangerous but nobody gets to claim ownership of a name. IMO, if those that went before named a feature then that's what its called. The Upper Gauley takes a back seat to no river in terms of history and tradition in the boating world. But I love me some Westwater too...


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## RYGUY78

crispy said:


> Indeed, nowhere else can you find the Skull to rock-of-shock to room-of-doom combo!


Sounds like the first set at a metal show. Hahaha!


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## RYGUY78

seantana said:


> You mean like this?
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhWtGeGYwsw&ab_channel=CodyStout


I his defense, he did get out.


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## Andy H.

Y'all might notice in the video of Harold flipping out that just before he makes his exit an upside down blue boat comes floating into the room. If I recall correctly, that blue boat did not get out of the room for a few days and was in tatters when it finally flushed. Not sure what happened to the rest of the frame and kit.

So, yeah, I'd much rather be Harold than the owner of the blue boat that took his place.

-AH


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## badkins

You inspired me to upload my video from last year, I think it was running about 11k. We had two very bad/embarrasing runs of Skull, but nobody flipped or lost gear so there's that. 

Run 1: A great example of why you don't try to row forward across the lateral wave at the top. Then I proceeded to do some stability testing in the hole. Fortunately we got spit left and despite some blue language it wasn't that bad. 

Run 2: A great example of why you don't hit the lateral wave sideways. The boat-women is knocked out of her seat, then there is a frantic futile scrambling as the boat runs the rest of the rapid without her. I didn't get it on video, but she totally redeemed herself by rowing out of the room on her 1st try and without flipping.

https://vimeo.com/166576947


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## Blade&Shaft

Meh. OKAY run in line one from video above, way to manage...

Why not a good downstream ferry PULL through the top lateral and then you're home free and in the relative slackwater on the left. Second run was terrible and got lucky.

I've run Skull a good few times with nothing exciting happening, fortunately. Needless to say the terrible teens is when the action typically happens.

These videos help debunk the lines and are good prep for the rising water to come. Have fun and stay safe out there, but this rapid gets quite a bit of hype and really isn't that technical it's just scary looking and scary to think about. Horror stories of boats getting shredded in the room of doom along with dead livestock don't help too much, but I guess it's all part of the fun


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## daairguy

Blade&Shaft said:


> These videos help debunk the lines and are good prep for the rising water to come. Have fun and stay safe out there, but this rapid gets quite a bit of hype and really isn't that technical it's just scary looking and scary to think about. Horror stories of boats getting shredded in the room of doom along with dead livestock don't help too much, but I guess it's all part of the fun


I do not see skull as a technical rapid and it's not too tough to stay out of the hole. I see it as a rapid with consequences if you do not make the right moves.


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## LSB

Phil U. said:


> So, here are a couple questions for all my provincial western boater friends... Which river do you think was boated first, Westwater or the Upper Gauley? Is one more worthy than the other? How many have been in the room on both rios? Which is more dangerous? IMHO, its the perfect name for both features...


If my foggy memory serves me, the Room Of Doom on the Gauley is the closest size eddy at the top left of pillow rock. I unintentionally eddied out in there once at low water and had a little trouble getting out. I don't recall the level but it was low enough that we were able to throw endos on Volkswagen rock (yes it was a while ago) I have also paddled into the ROD on westwater several times and also seen it a few times when I wanted nothing to do with it. Despite the sieve in the one on the Gauley it inspired no where near the awe that the one on westwater does. I know the Fayetteville boys would would holler Bullshit but I say Westy has the more legit claim.


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## cschmidt1023

You say Skull is not technical, then to that I say you haven't rowed an 18 foot boat through it below 2500 CFS lol! I would have to agree that it is not technical at the levels that chart at the put in indicates it is. Definitely high consequence but such an easy "must make" move. 

PS I'm truly shocked both of those runs ended fine from that video. I have lost track of how many times I have rowed Skull when it is at a consequential level, but I ALWAYS push in to the right wall and then PULL left to break the lateral. You can literally ship your oars once you hit that slack water.


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## Blade&Shaft

cschmidt1023 said:


> You say Skull is not technical, then to that I say you haven't rowed an 18 foot boat through it below 2500 CFS lol!


Are you kidding dude? Of course I haven't done that. If I owned an 18' raft I'd be taking it elsewhere if the water was that low. I also haven't paddled the Arkansas at 50cfs but I'm sure it's technical at that level too.


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## tallboy

snowjunkie said:


> http://www.mountainbuzz.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=11500&stc=1&d=1463083684


That is my cat and our junk show in the room, it took a number of attempts to get out with all the logs in the way but it was worth the beers in there! Best bachelor party river trip yet.


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## jaffy

badkins said:


> https://vimeo.com/166576947



Ok, help me out here. I've never run westy in the terrible teens, but this makes skull look easier than it does at ~5k. It's all washed out. I get the water is moving fast, but is the only "must make" move to avoid the room of doom?

Is it just that Skull is always class II if you're on your line, but the rest of westy gets tough in the teens?


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## Gremlin

Funnel Falls in the teens is the one that has given me trouble. If you shoot down the tongue and the 5-O wave crests it will stop you in your tracks. Flipping there would be a bad swim.

Skull requires you to put your boat nearly sideways to the hole to make the pull across the lateral. It isn't difficult, it just feels "wrong".


Sent from this thingy using Mountain Buzz


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## Sam Arnold IV

Room of Doom Upper Gauley,WV. Photos are taken by good friend Emily Grimes!


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## Phil U.

Thanks for the images, Sam. Here's another question. Can boaters on another continent use the name or do the Westwater Room advocates claim global ownership? And, if another Room of Doom is clearly substantially more dangerous then does that mean we need to rename the one on Westwater? There's a world class river in Chile called the Futaleafu. Google it. I mean I guess its no Westwater but some people think its kinda worthy. There's a rapid there called Zeta. On the outside of a hard bend with a hard move is an eddy called, yup, The Room of Doom. Its actually similar in size to the "one and only". Thing is, it flushes. Flushes as in, like a toilet. Pretty much a terminal eddy. You know, you die if you blow the move. I've only run that section twice and I walked it both times. At low water on the portage you can see that the rock there is like swiss cheese. I've watched world class kayakers run it and I've watched them walk it. Maybe the Futa Room is the one with the "legit" claim to the name. What do you think?


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## Dave Frank

My maiden voyage into Westwater Canyon was at 14K as at total newbie in a borrowed bucket boat oar rig in '94.

(it is still unclear why the owner agreed to this loan)

After a quick scout and listening to people with actual river experience describe how they planned to make that easy pull to the left, our crew decided that was for wimps.

We wanted to experience all the glory of a meat line through Skull.

We ran down the wave train on the right side, directly into the hole. The boat stood on end, contemplating flushing through vertical but upright, before completing its back-ender to quick tumble flush in the hole.

After regrouping and righting the boat, we hatched a plan: from an upstream point on the low cliff wall, pull the boat as high upstream as the current allowed, then jump in to the bow to paddle assist the rower with the exit ferry. The ten foot high pillow on the rock of shock, looked pretty scary as we squeaked past it on the first try.

Since then, I have also kayak ferried into the ROD to use the same technique on another stranded oar rig at 12K.

Hitting that pillow is no joke. I heard of a raft that flipped there with the result of boat going one way and a kid who got tangled in a loose rope going the other, with tragic results.

Skull is an easy ferry, if you know right were to start your back pull, and literally one or two good, well timed pulls and you can ship the oars and watch the hole as you drift lazily past it, but the consequences for a bad line can be very real.


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## richp

Hi,

Dave's recollection is correct. Back in 2000 or 2001, a loose bow line around a fellow's leg, a flipped boat going downstream around the Rock of Shock, the swimmer going into The Room -- all combined for a tragic drowning. 

Skull is not a terribly difficult rapid. But at certain levels it requires just the right move to avoid problems with potentially grave consequences.

FWIW.

Rich Phillips


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## DoStep

daairguy said:


> I do not see skull as a technical rapid and it's not too tough to stay out of the hole. I see it as a rapid with consequences if you do not make the right moves.


He's right in the sense that only one or two well timed strokes in the right part of the upper lateral with the boat in the appropriate downstream ferry angle is all that is needed to skirt the hole on the left, and thus avoid the ROD. If successful it looks easy and the run is boring. If you don't nail the entry in that manner, it can become a lot less boring in a hurry if you can't make the corrections in time. 

I saw it over 40K a couple times and it more resembles boiling water than a wave train, no hole, just a 20' pillow on the rock of shock. I just pulled left like my life depended on it through the whole thing. The random eddies and boils were scary, even with a pfd it might be minutes or more before you popped up if one of them suck you down.


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## LeftOfCenter

*Reflection*

I remember one day last week, when Westie was running whatever it was running, and my three year old got super pissed at me because I said I was Captain America, but really HE was Captain America, but really we weren't.


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## mattman

Knowing which picnic table I was conceived on along the Colorado, really has not helped my own mental sanity.


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## CB Rob

If you have to get to somebody that is in the ROD, how do you walk/ climb to them? 
Can it be accessed by hiking back up to it?


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## yetigonecrazy

Phil U. said:


> There's a rapid there called Zeta. On the outside of a hard bend with a hard move is an eddy called, yup, The Room of Doom. Its actually similar in size to the "one and only". Thing is, it flushes. Flushes as in, like a toilet. Pretty much a terminal eddy. You know, you die if you blow the move. I've only run that section twice and I walked it both times. At low water on the portage you can see that the rock there is like swiss cheese. I've watched world class kayakers run it and I've watched them walk it.











img cred-> http://www.exchile.com/guide/images/d/dc/HazardsZeta.jpg

This is at low water during a drought year, terrifying!!!! :shock:


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## blutzski

Phil U. said:


> Thanks for the images, Sam. Here's another question. Can boaters on another continent use the name or do the Westwater Room advocates claim global ownership? And, if another Room of Doom is clearly substantially more dangerous then does that mean we need to rename the one on Westwater? There's a world class river in Chile called the Futaleafu. Google it. I mean I guess its no Westwater but some people think its kinda worthy. There's a rapid there called Zeta. On the outside of a hard bend with a hard move is an eddy called, yup, The Room of Doom. Its actually similar in size to the "one and only". Thing is, it flushes. Flushes as in, like a toilet. Pretty much a terminal eddy. You know, you die if you blow the move. I've only run that section twice and I walked it both times. At low water on the portage you can see that the rock there is like swiss cheese. I've watched world class kayakers run it and I've watched them walk it. Maybe the Futa Room is the one with the "legit" claim to the name. What do you think?


 How 'bout we let them have "La Habitacion de la Fatalidad". Kind of rolls right off the tongue.


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## steveskinner

Glad you are okay - thanks for the info - was worried!


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