# Most classic North American Runs?



## glenn (May 13, 2009)

What do you consider the most classic rivers in N. America? Totally subjective but I'm trying to get a game plan together for the next 5 years of paddling. I would be interested in hearing about any grade whitewater but I'm personally only up for IV-V paddling on the upper end of the scale. I will probably focus my efforts in PNW, ID, CA but I've got some interest in Canada and Mexico as well.


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## Schutzie (Feb 5, 2013)

#1 Dolores in South Western Colorado
#2 Grand Canyon (duh)
#3 North Platte -Northgate canyon at flood


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## smauk2 (Jun 24, 2009)

Little White Salmon, White Salmon, Eagle Creek, Canyon Creek, The Rogue, Celestial falls. PAC NW is awesome.


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## glenn (May 13, 2009)

Might be good to give your criteria for classic as well. I'm surprised at a few picks already.


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## yak1 (Jan 28, 2006)

The Big South Fork of the Poudre


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## paulk (Apr 24, 2006)

Kind of depends on your definition of classic. Personal? Well known? Scenary? Most of my experience is in CO but I'll lend my favorites up to IV-V

Class III-IV day stretch
South Payette, ID
Lochsa, ID
Stevens Down Poudre above 4 feet, CO

Class III-IV multiday
Cataract, UT
Middle and Main salmon, ID
Selway?- never done this, ID
Grand Canyon, AZ

Class IV-Vish
Upper Animas, CO
Gore, CO
Bailey, CO
OBJ, CO
Poudre Gnarrows, CO
Clear Creek, CO (~1000)
Wind, WA
Canyon Creek, WA
E fork Lewis, WA
Farmlands, WA
Green Truss, WA
Opal Creek, OR


Want to do:
Middle fork feather (multi), CA IV-V
Cal-Salmon, CA IV-V
Skykomish, WA III
North Fork Payette, ID V
South Salmon (multi) IV-V
Jarbidge/Bruneau
Selway, ID
Gauley, WV

BC- all of it
CA-granite Road trip
Futaleufu
Pucon, Chile

Too many more to add, good start though


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## jmack (Jun 3, 2004)

I'll put in a vote for the Middle Fork Feather (CA). Pretty much the pinnacle of IV-V overnighters. 49-B on the S. Yuba is one of the best day IV-V runs I have done. The Northern Sierra has lots of other great options in that range: Mill Creek, Deer Creek, Butte Creek, N. Yuba, Giant Gap.

The Columbia River Gorge is the other obvious choice, with Canyon Creek and the Farmlands/Green Truss being world class IV-V.

As far as Colorado goes, the Big South (Poudre) is the best IV-V run in the state.


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## Villainista (Jul 28, 2011)

Forks of the Kern
Giant Gap, N Fork American
Cal –Salmon
Garlic Falls, Upper Kings
And the run to top all runs: The Mighty South Fork American!!
A true California Classic !!!


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## [email protected] (Apr 26, 2006)

Day runs: Big south, gore at 2500, 49-b on s yuba is some of the best 4-5 anywhere, south silver, middle kaweah, cal salmon, white salmon, rogers creek, calahan, upper cheakamus

Over nighters: hellsgate on tonto, black canyon, devils canyon of middle feather (the best 4-5 overnighter around), south salmon (not at high water), upper cherry and s merced if you walk some stuff, 

Ultra classic class 3 trips: grand canyon, salmon drainage, selway, jarbidge bruneau, salt, owayhee, and if you find yourself in alaska the tatsashini or alsek are hard to beat


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## TheFlophouse (Apr 1, 2012)

I will let you borrow this Glenn, if you don't already have it. It should provide a lot to think about...

The River Gypsies Guide to North America on sale for only $19.95!

-Zak


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## fiya79 (Feb 9, 2010)

I like that the Selway made it on a class III list and a class V list


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## DoStep (Jun 26, 2012)

The Arkansas has 100 miles of varying difficulty between Granite and Canon City. About half is class iii and up, the other half about class iii and below. Pine creek, numbers, brown's, and royal gorge are the former, a short stretch below Buena vista and from Salida to the entry to royal gorge is the latter, More or less.


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## glenn (May 13, 2009)

I've got the book but they don't do much to sort the classics from the standards if I remember correctly. Mostly I want to hear the impressions of the buzzards on what the most classic runs are.


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## colorado_steve (May 1, 2011)

lower dolores and westwater canyon get my votes


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## Roy (Oct 30, 2003)

The Embudo needs to be in there for a classic V day trip, and while I haven't done it, the Clark's Fork Box has gotta make the list for classic V multi-day.


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## LSB (Mar 23, 2004)

Upper Gauley... If we're considering that side of the country to be part of N. America


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## Fuzzy (May 25, 2005)

#'s above 4'


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## k2andcannoli (Feb 28, 2012)

LSB said:


> Upper Gauley... If we're considering that side of the country to be part of N. America


Since were considering WV, The New River is certainly a classic.


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## Katboater (Apr 21, 2009)

Illinois River in Southern Oregon, South Fork of the Salmon in Idaho


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## bigben (Oct 3, 2010)

x2 for the salt.
cataract's gotta be on the list somewhere!!


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## Smokey Carter (Aug 31, 2005)

Broken down in terms of accessibility. Feel free to add/subtract

NA Classics in terms of ease of access:
Green--North Carolina
Embudo - New Mexico
Big South fork of the Poudre -- Colorado
Little White Salmon--Washington
Tumwater Canyon--Washington
NF Payette--Idaho
SF Payette--Idaho
Lochsa--Idaho
South Fork of the Merced--California
South Fork American Golden Gate--California
South Silver--California

Classics in terms of moderate (to this is a bitch) accessibility:
Linville Gorge --N.C.
Ravens Fork--N.C.
South Fork Salmon--Idaho
Selway-Idaho
Inner gorges of Lime Creek--Colorado
Crystal Gorge-Colorado
Vallecito Creek--Colorado

Classics in terms of ridonculous accessibility:
Upper Cherry Creek--California
Middle Kings--California
Devils Postpile--California
Royal Gorge--California
Stikine--NW Territories


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## Smokey Carter (Aug 31, 2005)

Roy said:


> The Embudo needs to be in there for a classic V day trip, and while I haven't done it, the Clark's Fork Box has gotta make the list for classic V multi-day.


agree with embudo but doesn't the box have way too many portages to be considered "classic"?


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## BrianK (Feb 3, 2005)

I like these lists. One of my favorites that hasn't been listed yet is the Alseseca in Mexico - the roadside section is awesome IV-V and there are solid class V sections above and below.


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## Max's Dad (Jan 5, 2010)

One definition of a classic could be a free flowing river. The following two rivers come to mind:
Yampa - the only remaining free flowing river in the Colorado River Basin
Yellowstone - longest free flowing river in the lower 48


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## dirtbagkayaker (Oct 29, 2008)

South Fork of the Salmon. Start with Sesech and push out to MacKay. The perfect goldilocks run and a classic that not many people get on!


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## cayo 2 (Apr 20, 2007)

Runs/rivers in Northern Central America and Mexico that could /should be considered classic (whatever that means)

Rio Cangrejal,Honduras -multiple contiguous segments from II to V..cheap kayaker accomadations
near upper (IV /V) put in /takeout...raftable sections (including commercial) ...other north coast rivers/creeks nearby


Lanquin -Cahabon, Guatemala -Cahabon is the most popular rafting river in Guat. ..1-3 days III /IV..hot springs..Lanquin is semi creeky III -IV (V plus /P) ..near popular tourist attractions Semuc Champey and Semuc Lanquin caves and pools..hundreds of other rivers in Guat. don 't know what

you'd call classic..Ocosito, Nil, and the Genesis Gorge of the Polochic sound pretty awesome to me...Las Conchas on the Chiyu is sort of the 'Micos 'of Guat., travertine III with one thirty footer .Nearby Rio Chahal recently first D 'd has a couple advanced sections....3 plus runs down river from La's Conchas..

Moho River Belize -candidate for best class 3 river on earth, 60 ledge drops up to 15-18 feet..epitome of plop and drop..pristine jungle, monkeys, iguanas, basilisks, true Mayan villages, other travertine hucks to explore nearby...Macal made Paddler magazines 12 best jungle rivers in '99( so did the other rivers mentioned above) but only bits and pieces remain runnable due to dams


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## doublet (May 21, 2004)

Smokey Carter said:


> agree with embudo but doesn't the box have way too many portages to be considered "classic"?


The box only has 6 portages. And there are individual rapids in the box that are better than the entire Embudo. 

There are so many rad places to float rivers in North America that compiling an all-encompassing list is pretty tough. An individual experience is colored by water levels, what you portaged/ran, and your crew. I've had a blast on mediocre runs with a great crew, and I've had lousy days on mega-classics because I portaged my face off and/or had lousy flows.

Some of the most meaningful river moments for me have been on non-classic runs. I've also had some pretty pedestrian days on runs that are generally considered "classic". I don't know if I'd call the Devils Postpile a classic, but I had moments in there that I will still remember when I'm 80 years old. 

With that long preamble, my top 5:

+Middle Kings: on my last trip someone described it as "a season's worth of class V in a single trip"

+Fantasy Falls: Huge flow window. Tons of variety, epic camping. Huge rapids that can be portaged. Slightly less-huge rapids in gorges that can't be portaged.

+North Fork Payette: Sometimes it's warm and mellow. Sometimes it's cold and terrifying. It's always good. Cool place to push yourself because the road is close, but also a high stakes place to push yourself because it's so continuous.

+Devils Canyon, Middle Feather: So good. So stacked. Like the Middle Kings but less scary. 

+Clarks Fork Box: Aesthetic and complex rapids, just enough to mank to remember it's the rockies, unforgettable scenery.


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## cayo 2 (Apr 20, 2007)

Chiapas!!!-Where to start?Well Agua Azul is. "Kayaker Disneyland " the world 's most extensive travertine formation over 500 waterfalls in three miles of river (multiple channels) just show up, almost always runnsble, scout and Huck what you want from scrapey III 's to blind 80 footers.Then there are spectacular upper sections.Many other rivers near Palenque /AA from mellow multiday rafting with ruins, the Usumascinta, to easy access day run with playspots then bigwater 4/5 then crazy stacked class 4 ledge drops, the Salto de Aghast section of the Tulija, to various 3 plus travertine... just northeast of there the roadside class 4 of the La Sierra to the committing narrow cliffed in canyons of the the Almanandro


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## cayo 2 (Apr 20, 2007)

South Central Chiapas the Santos Domingo (can you say Hotel Charley) and its sister the Tzaconeja are world class challenging class 5/6 travertine (some easier parts.) CHECK OUT the photos of the Santos Domingo (lower canyons) on www.mayanwhitewater.com. Pac Coast has many good but obscure runs around Tapachula...



Veracruz -Alsaseca and rest of the Filo -Bobos system depending on skills...the Antigua was the original Mexican whitewater destination

La Huasteca-Micos and El Salto are old classics ...Rio Verde...Mina's Viejas looks awesome, kind of creeky 4 plus travertine

Copper Canyon -true exploratory creekin 'or multiday rafting...I guess the Urique is the classic of the area...see Rocky Contos' book or SierraRios: Kayak, Raft, and Protect Rivers in Mexico and Peru


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## caspermike (Mar 9, 2007)

In all honesty Glenn Classic is a loose term.. My favorite power spots are.

In this order
The Black Canyon of the Yellowstone
The Box of the Clark fork of the Yellowstone 
Fremont Canyon North Platte River

All deep gorges that place you into a deeper realm than just kayaking..

A classic to me should be fun, as well as keep you honest. Nothing like a couple mandatory rapids in your life glendo..


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## cayo 2 (Apr 20, 2007)

ahh, bleeping spellcheck or whatever it is that changes your words on a tablet....

Santo Domingo

Salto de Agua section of the Tulija

Almandro (my bad)

Minas Viejas


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## JCKeck1 (Oct 28, 2003)

The Box is undeniably classic. 

A huge gaping hole that has been missed here is the Ashlu Box. That may be the best short run in North America. 

Joe


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## [email protected] (Apr 26, 2006)

The box and the ashlu arn't class 4-5 they are full on class 5.


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## glenn (May 13, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> The box and the ashlu arn't class 4-5 they are full on class 5.



While I'm looking for ideas in the II through IV-V realm I'm more than happy to hear about any grade classics.


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## Preston H. (Jun 25, 2008)

In Quebec Le Taureau (V) and La(?) Malbaie (IV/V) are classic long day trips. Info on Quebec runs can be hard to find, but here's a book: http://neguidebook.com/. I think AW has the Taureau but not the Malbaie.


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## jshap (Apr 29, 2011)

Yo Glenn, 

Slightly bias and mostly just trying to entice you into a road trip to the pnw. These were my favorite runs this year:

Lolo creek
Golden canyon
Ohanepacosh 
Upper upper cispus 
N fork Lewis 

Hollar!!


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## carvedog (May 11, 2005)

fiya79 said:


> I like that the Selway made it on a class III list and a class V list


While I haven't seen it at super low, there is nothing about the Selway that is class 3. Pretty much invalidates anything else they have to say. 

The Bruneau at 1K cfs is kind of class 3, but anything over 2K and you better have your gameface on.


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## captishmael (Feb 8, 2008)

It's well known that MFS and Lodore suck donkey dick. If you get one and cancel, I'll take it off your hands...........


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## paulk (Apr 24, 2006)

To clarify, I wasn't putting the selway in class III or class V, I just got lazy with my labels and put it in the list of runs I want to do. To be honest, I have no idea what it is like but have heard it depends on the flow. Don't really get too hung up on the rating unless it starts getting into the "I heard ... got beat down there" and ... is a better boater than I am. I just like to see cool rivers. 

As long as we are branching out of the northwest/west, I also want to check out the green in NC and some big water quebec stuff.


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## doublet (May 21, 2004)

glenn said:


> While I'm looking for ideas in the II through IV-V realm I'm more than happy to hear about any grade classics.


Reading comprehension fail on my part to miss the IV-V note in the original post. I was just stoked that people on the buzz were discussing kayaking in badass places and I got carried away.

But for IV-V kayaking you will be really hard pressed to find a better run than Devil's Canyon on the Middle Feather. So good.


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## DoStep (Jun 26, 2012)

Max's Dad said:


> One definition of a classic could be a free flowing river. The following two rivers come to mind:
> Yampa - the only remaining free flowing river in the Colorado River Basin
> Yellowstone - longest free flowing river in the lower 48



To use this definition would reduce the list dramatically. And while the Colorado is not a free flower, Cataract Canyon sure still behaves like one. I have that one high on the classic list. But nothing beats The Grand.


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## glenn (May 13, 2009)

DoStep said:


> Cataract Canyon sure still behaves like one.


Does it though? It benefits from year round flows due to releases. Peak runoff in many years happens after many of the storage facilities are maxed out but in other years when peak is early flows through cataract would be dramatically higher if not for dams.


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## jmack (Jun 3, 2004)

I'm not sure if Cataract "behaves like a river", but I would recommend checking it out if flows are at 50,000+ cfs.


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## NathanH. (Mar 17, 2010)

Out West:

Numbers above 2,000CFS (IV+)
Royal Gorge 2200+ CFS is excellent as far as scenery goes and it's definitly on the easier side for gorges.
Giant's Gap, N. Fork of the American (IV/V)- Just heard it's excellent.


Out East for Fun:

Section 4 of the Chattooga (IV/V)
Russell Fork Gorge (Flow Dependent)
Wilson Creek Gorge (IV/V)


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## NathanH. (Mar 17, 2010)

*Update*

^The guy who posted before me, what an idiot!

Since this thread still comes up on the first page when I am googling for classics in North America, I thought I'd update this with the additional years of paddling experience I have now (Plus we all have a little extra time on our hands).

PNW:
Little White Salmon (V)
Upper Wind (IV/V)- Flow dependant.
Payette (Can pick the best section based off comfort level)
Green Truss-White Salmon (IV/V)- Vs are walk-able except Upper ZigZag.
Upper Cispus (V)-Could have a easier day but Behemoth is a must run.
Robe Canyon (V)
Tumwater Canyon (IV/V)-Very flow dependent, you'll immediately know when you get there if it's going to be a Class IV or Class V+ day.
East Fork Lewis (IV)
Canyon Creek, OR (IV+)
Opal Creek (III/IV)-Flow dependent, ultra-classic.
Crooked River (IV+)-Probably the most debatable run on the list, runs 1 or 2 days a year and crews rally from across the PNW to get on the run while it's in. Runs right through Smith Rock State Park so the scenery is top notch.

CA
Giants Gap- North Fork American (IV-V)
South Silver (V)
Devil's Canyon- Middle Fork Feather (V)
Forks of the Kern (V)

Rockies:
Big South-Cache La Poudre (V)
Oh Be Joyful Creek (V)
Bailey- NF South Platte (IV/V)
Numbers (IV)-Above 2200 CFS
Vallecito (V)
Rio Embudo (V)

SE
Green River Narrows (V)-Can always walk the Big 3.
Section 4- Chatooga (IV)
Tallulah River Gorge (IV+)
Linville Gorge (V)

I know I am missing some runs on here but I just don't have an intimate knowledge of some of the runs that seem sure ballot to make the list such as Clarks Fork Box, Upper Cherry, Middle Kings, GC of Stikine, Ashlu Box, etc. I also feel there are definitely some classic in the NE that we're missing but I don't know a lot about IE Blackwater, Upper Yough, Sandy, GF of the Potomac,etc.


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## ArgoCat (May 14, 2007)

*Cataract Flows*

For the most part, the colorado through cataract still does behave like a wild river. Yes, the lowers are lower on average but many years are in line with historical averages in the pre-damn era, Flaming Gorge is the biggie in 1958, and the dates do not actually behave very differently either. In fact, the highest flow in the last 100 years was recorded in 1984 and was on May 27th, which is a pretty common date for high water pre and post damn era. Check out the chart to see for yourself:
https://www.nps.gov/cany/planyourvisit/historicflows.htm


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