# Rule of thumb when you have to swim??



## eyecon (Nov 18, 2015)

Rule of thumb when you have to swim…other than trying to staying calm and not panic 


So when the time comes and you have to swim what is the proper way to do this? 


Should you go for the kayak/boat? If so how should you hold on to the kayak/boat? Do you keep it on your side or in front of you? 


Or do you focus on trying to get to the nearest eddy or closest shore? Leaving the kayak/boat behind


I understand every situation is different but what is your thoughts on this and why?


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## lmyers (Jun 10, 2008)

Generally, you want to be aggressive and get out of the water asap. This isn't always the case. If floating into a large rapid you want to assume the whitewater swimming position (on back with feet up) to avoid injury and foot entrapment.

Hopefully you have paddling partners with you to retrieve your boat. If possible you will want to flip the boat upright immediately and try to hold onto your paddle. The urgency with which you need to exit the river depends heavily on the difficulty and character of the particular river or creek you are on.

My suggestion is to take a swift water rescue course and get trained by a professional.


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## slaphappy (May 1, 2014)

lmyers has it right, I highly recommend a swiftwater rescue course. It really depends on the scenario, when I first started all the rapids I would swim on had very large pools to collect myself and gear. On more challenging rivers the first priority is for the swimmer to be okay. After that then you can start worrying about gear. 

I've typically found that when paddling with a group if you take care of your own safety eventually someone will grab your gear somewhere down stream.


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## dirtbagkayaker (Oct 29, 2008)

When to pull is the question? I guess as said above it all depends. There are some situations where swimming is just not an option and other times swimming early is a must. You have to be aware of where your at. When I'm out in normal class 2 to 3 and I know that the kayaker has made three attempts at rolling before swimming, then I wont come down too hard. Ya need to make at least one attempt.

The better the floation in the boat the more likely you can stay with your gear. But life before gear! If you can swim your boat to shore thats a plus.


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## gannon_w (Jun 27, 2006)

Rule of thumb...drink your bootie beer!


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## soggy_tortillas (Jul 22, 2014)

I try to self rescue as much as possible. Helps me keep my cool. Always try to stay upstream of your boat, don't get trapped downstream of your boat. If you can't get your boat, at least do your best to hang on to your paddle- sometimes you can use it to help you swim.
I wait to flip my boat over until I'm in a safe spot, otherwise it fills up with more water and is heavier to maneuver, plus when it's upside down it seems a little more stable and makes a bigger platform for you to push around.
Find a spot you're comfortable practicing wet exits and have at it. Self rescues are fun, and your pride will hurt a little less if your buddies don't have to spend the time gathering your yard sale.
And yeah, life before gear. For what not to do (and some lengthy laughs), check out the "bout lost my life today" thread.


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## SteamboatBORN (Sep 22, 2012)

+ Swiftwater Class!


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## climbdenali (Apr 2, 2006)

I'd say hang onto both paddle and boat until the boat's going to kill you. Then, hold onto the paddle until it's going to kill you. Boat's pretty easy for your buds to see from a distance, compared to a paddle, so if at all possible, hang onto the paddle. As said above, very situational, but if you can truly "self rescue" that's better than your partners having to help, even if they're more than willing.


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## mattman (Jan 30, 2015)

Plus on the swifwater class, that training is invaluable, and could save your life.


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## Learch (Jul 12, 2010)

Keep a cool head and roll with the punches. Every swim is different. I like to scout stuff as much for a potential swim as for a good line. Sometimes trying to stop will kill you, sometimes you can get out really fast. Keep your keep off of the river bottom, that almost killed me once. I was under a good 2 minutes before I self rescued a foot entrapment. It was class II, no joke. I've landed myself on an island and gotten my bearings and jumped back in to swim down to my boat. I've clung to a few rocks, out of desperation. Don't let go of your paddle. Sometimes practice swimming rapids in controlled conditions is the best thing. I learned by falling out of a ducky and getting my ass kicked. My two big mistakes often were trying to stop myself in the river and letting go of my boat and paddle. If you mean when to pull out of a hardshell, when you run out of air. Chasing hard boats sucks.


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## lmyers (Jun 10, 2008)

soggy_tortillas said:


> I try to self rescue as much as possible. Helps me keep my cool. Always try to stay upstream of your boat, don't get trapped downstream of your boat. If you can't get your boat, at least do your best to hang on to your paddle- sometimes you can use it to help you swim.
> I wait to flip my boat over until I'm in a safe spot, otherwise it fills up with more water and is heavier to maneuver, plus when it's upside down it seems a little more stable and makes a bigger platform for you to push around.
> Find a spot you're comfortable practicing wet exits and have at it. Self rescues are fun, and your pride will hurt a little less if your buddies don't have to spend the time gathering your yard sale.
> And yeah, life before gear. For what not to do (and some lengthy laughs), check out the "bout lost my life today" thread.


I absolutely encourage swimmers to flip their boat over immediately. It is less likely to fill completely with water and is much easier to move around. For a swimmer trying to self rescue it is substantially easier to push the boat into an eddy ahead of you. For other boaters in your party trying to get the boat out of the river it is also much, much easier. When the boat is upside down the current flows into the cockpit causing you to fight the water more than necessary when extricating the equipment...


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## soggy_tortillas (Jul 22, 2014)

lmyers said:


> I absolutely encourage swimmers to flip their boat over immediately. It is less likely to fill completely with water and is much easier to move around. For a swimmer trying to self rescue it is substantially easier to push the boat into an eddy ahead of you. For other boaters in your party trying to get the boat out of the river it is also much, much easier. When the boat is upside down the current flows into the cockpit causing you to fight the water more than necessary when extricating the equipment...


I'll have to test that. The only time I've ever flipped my boat over whilst still swimming, it was immediately swamped (with two float bags in the stern). I've had much better luck swimming my boat to shore when it's upside down because it gives me a good platform to push around and I can even climb on top of it for a more aggressive leg-kick-swim and a better view of what lies ahead. Plenty of grab handles... 
I know when someone else is getting your boat (hooking up with a tether) it's obviously better for the boat to be right side up for easier access to the grab handles...
I dunno. I'll have to test that out.

My theory... Seems like once it's upside down it's got a nice air pocket and there's not much additional water going in. If you flip it back over (right side up) in a rapid or before a rapid, then the water from the waves splashes into the cockpit and swamps the boat...
I have pretty good success leaving the boat upside down... I self rescue just about every time I swim... last year the only time I wasn't able to self rescue was Westwater... but I don't actually swim that often, so I haven't really put THAT much thought into it...
Meh, different folks, different strokes... or something like that. There's probably a lot of things I do that are considered "rather unorthodox."

One other thing I like to do... sometimes I just swim back and forth across the river, eddy to eddy... practice my body-ferrying and different ways to cross eddy lines. If you find a section of river you're comfortable on, just put all your gear on and go for a little swim.


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## dirtbagkayaker (Oct 29, 2008)

I too have have better luck with boat wrong side up. Don't know why but that's just my experience. Other results may vary.


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## lmyers (Jun 10, 2008)

Without a doubt, in my experience of pulling hundreds of boats out of the Arkansas the easiest way to get a loose kayak out of a whitewater river is to drive the bow of your boat into the cockpit and drive it hard into an eddy. This is only possible if the boat is upright. Perhaps swimming with your boat upside down is easier, but the goal shouldn't be to get on top of it or to swim extended distances with it. It should be to get into an eddy to stop down stream movement....but whatever works for you I guess....


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## dirtbagkayaker (Oct 29, 2008)

lmayer, That sounds like a good trick to practice in the summer. I have never purposefully tried that. Also as a swimmer you could hold the boat at a better angle for the rescue boat. I would think that if the boat were wrong side up that one could drop your bow under sinking boat into the cockpit. Probably easier to do in a play. I'm going to give this a try! thanks..


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## FallingH20 (Nov 10, 2015)

The rule of thumb about swimming is that there are no rules. You do what you have to do to make sure you survive. My best advice is to paddle with people who will have your back if you swim. Next, just get enough experience to be able to make plans for swiming relying on your friends to help you clean up the mess. Meanwhile, work on your roll so you swim less. It's a learning process. You will get it wrong, but that's how you get it right. Oh, and get a good breath on the way over, if you can. That takes practice, but you can practice that while setting up to roll on purpose. The trick is to shut your mouth before your head hits the water. Works most of the time.


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## Phil U. (Feb 7, 2009)

Every circumstance is different. Keep your head, make smart choices. Be willing to let go of your gear although since I paddle with a Jimistyk, a work of art, I never let go of it. Someone mentioned a tether, I would never clip into a swamped boat unless it was in a pool with no whitewater below it. I once swam in Skull on Westwater, my excuse was, ahh never mind, but I was very unhappy to see myself being pushed toward the wall that splits the rio at the Room of Doom. Not too fond of swimming in strong current as it hits a wall head on cuz some percentage of it is going to take you deep. At the last minute I remembered a William Nealy cartoon showing a swimmer using his boat in front of him to fend off a rock. Holding on to one end of the boat I held it in front of me and used it to pivot off the wall a good 10' from it. Keep your head. Do not die.


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## mattman (Jan 30, 2015)

William Nealy cartoons kicked ass!


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## KSC (Oct 22, 2003)

https://books.google.com/books?id=5Z1KAQAAQBAJ&pg=PA61&source=gbs_toc_r&cad=4#v=onepage&q&f=false


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## Phil U. (Feb 7, 2009)

KSC said:


> https://books.google.com/books?id=5Z1KAQAAQBAJ&pg=PA61&source=gbs_toc_r&cad=4#v=onepage&q&f=false


Awesome!


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## bystander (Jul 3, 2014)

I noticed the cartoon recommended leaving the boat upside down if you lack float bags to prevent swamping, and turning it upright if you do. Seems both have an application.


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## Phil U. (Feb 7, 2009)

bystander said:


> I noticed the cartoon recommended leaving the boat upside down if you lack float bags to prevent swamping, and turning it upright if you do. Seems both have an application.


Everybody should paddle with float bags. Its a courtesy to your paddling partners.


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## Jhit (May 31, 2005)

You have to swim when you are in a really big ledge hole or retentive feature. And you've been fighting it for minutes. And you have practiced being in and getting out of ledge holes.
And finally the pressure from the pour over pops your skirt and your legs come flying out. And there is no seam, or ramp to escape from. Then you swim. otherwise never swim. Don't hold on to your boat in the feature, its buoyancy kept you in there in the first place, holding on to it will keep above water for a bit but also keep you in the reversal. So, you got ripped out of your boat, enjoy the drowning I'm going to die feeling and go limp, always works for me. The river gods will hopefully take mercy and throw you rag doll style for a couple of circs and spit you out, where at this point, screw your boat and make your way to the shore like a scared wet little puppy dog. Count your blessings, let your bros or brogals get your boat while you recount the last 12 most terrifying seconds of your life. "I was in there for like 5 minutes man." Boats and paddles are replaceable, you are not. get out of the drink. Boof or swim, but learn how to make love to the seam. For the old schoolers you didn't boof the hole, you hit it and side surfed. know your holes. Old school kayaking videos have some great tips on how to avoid the swim. and phat soundtracks


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## Jhit (May 31, 2005)

this is what i mean don't give up on that stuff
https://vimeo.com/5492121


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## mattman (Jan 30, 2015)

Aw! Gettin trashed!
Scared wet little puppy dog, that's pretty good. 
Nothing like a shitty swim to teach anyone humility...


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## All4ward (Feb 21, 2016)

Agreed. Assess your situation. If it's safe-ish:
Flip your boat. Less drag means you can push it in the direction youre swimming and swim after it. 
Throw your paddle into the boat or an eddy/bank. 
Take some responsibility for yourself! 
And drink your bootie beer!


Sent from my iPhone using Mountain Buzz


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## RandyP (Mar 12, 2007)

First Rule of Swim Club is we never talk about swim club. Second rule is we never talk about swim club. rule number three if there is no pictures or video footage of said swim it never happened! :lol::lol:


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