# Looking for MF updates- beta only



## thatonefishingguide (8 mo ago)

Anyone with new and (preferably) confirmed beta on potential portages (how many/distance), problem logs in subsequent rapids, and boating issues please lend us your most up to date information. 

I know there is another thread on the subject that has turned more into a discussion on wilderness river ethics rather than information on what is actually occurring on the river. We are just looking for actual conditions, not opinions and speculation.


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## gnarsify (Oct 5, 2020)

On going discussion here: Ramshorn Creek blow out on the Middle Fork


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## Inertiaman (Jun 4, 2021)

There is a lengthy thread about the Rams_horn_ (not _head_) situation here:
Ramshorn Creek blow out on the Middle Fork

Despite some of the tangential off-topic discussions there, perhaps best not to get two parallel threads going.


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## donutboy (Sep 13, 2015)

I could be wrong here but some outfitters can't fly in because they don't have breakdown equipment and they alway go off the top.


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## Inertiaman (Jun 4, 2021)

thatonefishingguide said:


> I know there is another thread on the subject that has turned more into a discussion on wilderness river ethics rather than information on what is actually occurring on the river. We are just looking for actual conditions, not opinions and speculation.


The other thread is hardly "a discussion on wilderness river ethics." Yes, there are a few lengthy tangential posts on that issue, but the vast majority of posts are about the conditions and how people are planning to react.
There are photos, for example, of the very blockage that caused this situation. Actual photos, not "opinions and speculation."
Besides, until we hear back from a party that pushes through the top and can report on portages, any "beta" will ALL be speculation. Do you really think that starting a parallel thread will magically attract someone who has your answers, but hasn't been posting in the other thread?


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## Pinchecharlie (Jul 27, 2017)

Just go and run it! Take an extra day or two and pretend that your going down a river when all of a sudden you gotta do something that river runners do! Be fun! Way better than going to my shitty job and or not getting laid after my shitty job or eating a black bean burger! Yeah ! Would you rather do a itty bity portage or eat a black bean burger? There you have it! 4 miles seems like not much and you came this far just fly in? Or is it crazy expensive? Another good reason to just go run it and do the do! Be fun! And saves money. In the top 4 are you gonna flip? You could just kinda rig so when you get there it’s easier?


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## duct tape (Aug 25, 2009)

Hmmm, getting wrapped in an unrealized sweeper halfway down a rapid in a bend in the river with no eddy to pull out? I’ll take the black bean burger. Thanks.


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## Pinchecharlie (Jul 27, 2017)

By this point they will be well documented don’t you think? The waters so low don’t you think you’ll have time to understand and make it pretty easy )except carrying boats) ? Otherwise yes, a surprise strainer at high water would be terrible lol.


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## carvedog (May 11, 2005)

Inertiaman said:


> The other thread is hardly "a discussion on wilderness river ethics." Yes, there are a few lengthy tangential posts on that issue, but the vast majority of posts are about the conditions and how people are planning to react.
> There are photos, for example, of the very blockage that caused this situation. Actual photos, not "opinions and speculation."
> Besides, until we hear back from a party that pushes through the top and can report on portages, any "beta" will ALL be speculation. Do you really think that starting a parallel thread will magically attract someone who has your answers, but hasn't been posting in the other thread?


Well you know he's a fishing guide...so this isn't about anything but the fish count....come on. No ethics discussions allowed. 

I've seen some really great photos that look to show Velvet and a couple of other places looking really full of wood, but I didn't take them or know the provenance so it could be photoshop. No real beta here.


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## ski_it (Aug 27, 2015)

Not Beta - but I say embrace the portage.
While portaging keep in mind that in "Journey to the Polar Sea" by J. Franklin (of Northwest passage infamy) there is a good description of his 400 mile (or so) portage across the Barren's of northern Canada during the onset of winter with almost no food. Many died on this expedition and the rivers in the area carry the names of these people. That portage is a suffer-fest that makes Endurance seem rather relaxing.....


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## Paco (Aug 3, 2007)

I love that this thread has turned into a discussion NOT about current conditions. 
Welcome to the Buzz!


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## upacreek (Mar 17, 2021)

C'mon.....doesn't anyone here care about the Custies?


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## Pinchecharlie (Jul 27, 2017)

If I REALLY wanted to kno I’d call them I think.
CHEVY!!


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## ski_it (Aug 27, 2015)

Idea- what about asking for a few extra days from the top to do the portages? Curious what the FS would say.


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## nlove (Mar 6, 2007)

All clear from Boundary to Cache Bar. We had a trip 8/5-11 and no issues at all. Plenty of low water tech throughout. All the bigger rapids were class III. Cove and Cramer were the biggest feeling but still no issues.


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## Inertiaman (Jun 4, 2021)

nlove said:


> All clear from Boundary to Cache Bar. We had a trip 8/5-11 and no issues at all. Plenty of low water tech throughout. All the bigger rapids were class III. Cove and Cramer were the biggest feeling but still no issues.


You might have some catching up to do. Alternatively, read any of this thread or the linked longer thread, and you'd quickly realize that there are multiple river wide blockages between Boundary and Indian after side creek blowouts on/around the 11th.


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## nlove (Mar 6, 2007)

Ah- good timing on my part! Yep- have fun out there 😳


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## duct tape (Aug 25, 2009)

Hey- edited- , still feeling strong about that “itty bitty portage”? 😀😳🤓

From the MF/Main Salmon FB page: view of Velvet Falls from below:


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## duct tape (Aug 25, 2009)

Good chance there are multiple other similar spots, all the way down to Pistol Ck!


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## Pinchecharlie (Jul 27, 2017)

Yeah maybe that’s more than I expected lol. Good news is that good advice trumped my bad here on the good ol’ buzz. Gone are the days of not knowing and finding out the hard way!! A young guy may still do it but probably not a “gentleman “ with a loaded boat lol!! Good on ya for calling me out. We’ll deserved and point taken!


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## duct tape (Aug 25, 2009)

Sorry, didn’t mean to be a dick. Should have left names out of my post.


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## Pinchecharlie (Jul 27, 2017)

No offense taken ! Just a reality! The debate on the other post is pretty good! If you just happened upon this you’d have to do something?!?! But if you had thousands of dollars and lots of plans and travel yada yada then…yeah maybe that’s to gnarly! I wasn’t expecting it to be so bad! So My new advice is- go for it if your just into the sufferfest adventure mode. You’ll be alone for sure and even that’s not as hard as hiking out your elks going to be!! BUT take a pack raft, kayak or minin max/phat cat !!!


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## COH20man (Jul 13, 2021)

I talked to the first folks that made it from the top... the river rangers. They were in a hardshell and a tandem ducky. They had some great aerial photos from the heli. They Identified where the bridge is in the middle fork. The alluvial fan was very impressive. They said that there was 4 blockages. The 1st at ramshorn was the longest I believe but they were able to use the trail. It looks like type 2 fun a best with small crafts and really difficult if not impossible with rafts in the allotted time. There were several commercials caught up there and all opted to heli out as far as I know. It rained a couple more times last week and continues to turned the river into a milkshake. We flew in and made the best of it


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## Ripper (Aug 29, 2012)

Beta update: I think there will be more permit availability in the near future for those scuzzy hard boaters from the top...


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## coult45 (May 14, 2020)

COH20man said:


> I talked to the first folks that made it from the top... the river rangers. They were in a hardshell and a tandem ducky. They had some great aerial photos from the heli. They Identified where the bridge is in the middle fork. The alluvial fan was very impressive. They said that there was 4 blockages. The 1st at ramshorn was the longest I believe but they were able to use the trail. It looks like type 2 fun a best with small crafts and really difficult if not impossible with rafts in the allotted time. There were several commercials caught up there and all opted to heli out as far as I know. It rained a couple more times last week and continues to turned the river into a milkshake. We flew in and made the best of it


We ran it last week. First group after the rangers. This changed a bit from when they ran it, as Lincoln blew out and created a new rapid. We called it Dr Jim’s D’light. It’s a nice wave train. Here’s Jim’s report he posted on Facebook. 

Putting out this report on the status of the log jams on the upper Middle Fork Salmon for those who may be launching soon. I was in a group 7 in inflatable kayaks who paddled from Boundary Creek to Indian Creek. The ranger at Boundary said we were the first to launch there since the blowouts. After some log-clearing we were able to paddle everything easily. A small raft would be challenging to get through some jams, but portages would not be horrible. Here are the debris flows and log jams.




1. Lincoln Creek deposited some debris on river right, but there is an easy passage on river left. (Dr Jim’s D’Light)

2. Ramshorn rapid has two substantial log jams. There were nearly clear passages through both on river right. We cleared some logs from both to make them passable. The first is a simple tongue with no obstructions in the water, but you have to dodge a shoulder-height log on the left. 50 yards of shallow rocky water brings you to the second. Moderate current flows into and through the jam and could be dangerous to a swimmer, but it’s simple to get to river right. A head-height log extends over the second chute. Easy to duck under in a kayak. One of our IK’s brushed up against a plank from destroyed pack bridge and tore an 8 inch rip in his boat…instant pop and swim. We removed the plank. Be wary of other debris from the bridge.

3. Spike creek debris completely blocks river left and has a river-wide log on river right. Simple to drag over in any craft. 

4. Velvet Falls had a river-wide log jam that now has a single chute through the center over an 4-5 ft drop into a weakly recirculating hole. Although the chute itself is wide enough for a small raft, there are shoulder-height logs on both sides limiting the gap to about 6 ft. The log on the right has a lot of water moving under and could pose a pin potential. It’s not hard to hit the line in a kayak. Portaging a small raft looks possible but not pleasant on river left.

5. A smaller blowout about a mile after Velvet put a lot of debris in the river for the next mile, but not block passage. 

No other obstructions past Velvet. Have fun and be safe.


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