# How long does it typically take to load your raft for a multiday trip when "dragging" family along?



## theusualsuspect (Apr 11, 2014)

You should post pics of your setup or compare to the raft porn thread. I have a wife and 3 kids. I do all my setup at home over the course of a few days. I top off the tubes and am off the ramp in 5 mins. What kind of put ins are you using? Where are you based out of? Hours with a wife, grown kid and dogs seems outrageous to me. How you have your setup done will help people answer your questions.


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## Andy H. (Oct 13, 2003)

I didn't read the full post but am just replying to the question: I could spend all day.


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## jamesthomas (Sep 12, 2010)

Most folks take a long time to do the initial load on most trips I go on. You just have to be chill about it. As a trip progresses the loading process for most folks gets much faster. One guy I boat with never gets any faster. Seems he never loads the the boat the same way twice. Dude takes friggin forever.


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## patrick l (Mar 8, 2012)

Yes, way too long. I have wife, teenaged daughter and 2 dogs as well. 
mutiday trip at put in, we’re on in 20 minutes, breaking camp on river, 45 minutes if we’re solo. We’re efficient but enjoy a cocktail or 2 while rigging. Not a huge rush. Same deal with bro trips. I don’t preload my boat as well, but I have everything ready in back of truck for the quick transfer.
Couple thoughts..
-If you have a schematic for where your gear goes, you bring way too much shit.
-I’d lose the motor if your using it just to catch up to people, wake up earlier or something. That stresses me out just thinking about it.
-Dogs, I wouldn’t bring my dogs if I was worried about them falling in or them being good boys at the put in. Sounds like they might be pampered. But I do appreciate you having kid watch them at put in if they can’t chill by themselves, tons of bad dog owners with bad dogs running around at put ins. My point is, get the dogs lined out and you’ll have that extra body to help.
-Finally, you say “heated arguments“ at the boat ramp with the wife. My wifes job at the put in is keeping my drink full and chatting with other groups. At boat camp she and kid pack their personal dry bags and help with the kitchen, that’s pretty much it. Point being is you can’t have too many cooks in the kitchen, one of you is slowing the group down with over packing and over thinking. 
you said you’re relatively new, you’ll figure it out, or not. I agree with James above, I have a buddy that has done hundreds of multi days and is just as slow as his first time, pretty sure it’s a untreatable disease. 
good luck dude


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## Norcalcoastie (Jan 4, 2019)

I have a checklist. I made it on google sheets. It’s divided into:
Raft/Camping/Kitchen/Food Pack/Personal Gear

It’s 6 pages long and goes in a clipboard. I’m always messing around with its contents. There’s 2 columns: Have and Packed. Do we have it, and is it packed?

It takes me about 5-6 hours to get propane, shop for groceries, pack all our group and personal gear, load most of the boat(or boats; on a trailer) and put the rest on the truck. This is whether the trip is 1 day or 9 days. If it’s 10-15 people and I’m doing the group cooking, and the menu is set, it adds another 4-5 hours. 

I have never forgot anything super critical (but some small stuff) due to using a checklist. It’s only as good as your ability to use it. It keeps things really civil between my wife and daughter, friends and families. I share copies with my family and friends prior to the trip. 

I don’t have a diagram of where things go. That’s a changing target. In general if you know you have the gear you need with you, it’s less stressful. Bummer you can’t rig them on the trailer. I have a dedicated raft trailer and it’s a rare day I need 4wd or need to dip the axles. I just shove it close enough and drag it. 16’ fully loaded, with my wife. 

A checklist doesn’t make you not fun or nerdy. It keeps things fun by taking out the need to rely solely on our brains, which are already having to process transportation, navigation, meals, group dynamics and weather. 

Give it a whirl!


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## Hanny (Aug 2, 2020)

Arrive early, get a good spot, crack beer..... see how easy that is 😀


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## ski_it (Aug 27, 2015)

Ya- I was thinking it should take more than a six pack.


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## caverdan (Aug 27, 2004)

I'd say from the time I roll up to the ramp to push off on a multi day trip...........3 to 4 hours. 16 foot Avon with motor. Take an hour or so off that if someone is helping me. Lacing in the beaver tails is one of the more time consuming jobs. I've found that overnight or multi day trips require taking about the same amount of gear along, just less food and cooler space to worry about.

Pretty much the norm for me on any rafting multi day trip is to arrive as early as I can. I'm talking at least a day early, especially for Deso or San Juan. Nothing like pulling in at night and blowing up boats to help unwind from the drive.
The next morning its fun watching all the confusion and tension of the group's trying to launch that day. As soon as they all leave..........bring your boats and gear down from camp to an empty beach and finish rigging for an early morning launch. 😎


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## azpowell (Aug 14, 2014)

A few strategies to make things go easier would be to pre rig loop straps for strapping down things. an everything bag and some hatches can really speed things up. Adding a motor is Definitely going to complicate things at the put in and take out. A 16 foot boat has room for 2 hatches a cooler and dry box bay. If you are spending a ton of time rigging boxes and coolers into your frame you could speed things up by having tabs welded on your box and using a canyon prospector or navigator. 

Last thing to remember is you are on vacation enjoy the river, no need to argue or get frustrated at the put in or take out.


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## Roseldo (Aug 27, 2020)

Practice rigging 3-5 times in your yard with no time pressure. Should be able to get it down to 45 min.

If you’re only doing class I-II, rigging should be fairly straightforward, as you aren’t worried about a flip.

My one bit of advice is fewer, bigger bags.


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## HitMcG (Jun 6, 2018)

Not sure what the ramps look like where you're boating, but having a dedicated raft trailer would greatly speed your rigging time at the ramp. I can't remember the last time I've need 4WD to put my boat/trailer out. If you absolutely can't have the dedicated trailer, I'd make peace with it, get there early (maybe the day before?) and have a drink while rigging. It's better than being at work.


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## idahoriversrat (Jul 1, 2011)

I read your post and the last line is the most important. If you are really starting to dislike your happy place then then you really need to ask yourself "Am I happy to be on the river . . . . ?"


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## carvedog (May 11, 2005)

Wow. That much rigging for class 1-2? My first day of a multi day takes a bit to get it all figured out but after that not so much. Your 16 year old doesn't help except to watch the dogs? That sounds like a guest not a participant, send the wife to walk the dogs and make your kid help. Maybe send them both away and just do your thing. In terms of the arguing at the ramp...there can be only one 'captain'. You rig until you are happy and that is that. If she wants to help great. Have stuff there when it needs to be. Maybe let her do the rig and you assist but there really shouldn't be an argument about it before you even start. You have a diagram FFS, how hard can it be? 

I do find that color coding straps does help me. All my four footers are green, sixes are dark blue, 10 footers are light blue etc. I also pre-rig straps in their locations even if I am not tying the gear on before travel. Good luck, it can be a life long battle to get rigged, but take the stress out...it is what it is.


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

After many years sitting on the ramp at westwater watching people rig for class 3 and 4, I'd say most of them get it accomplished in 45 minutes to an hour. Husband and wife teams usually have a system, the husband rigs the wife brings. Now Ruby horse thief people de-rigging at the ramp can take anywhere from 2 to 4 hours, because it seems they bring everything they own! Huge piles of gear for an overnight trip. Never seen anything like it.

I would suggest pairing your load down to the absolute necessities, and some things that would be nice to have. Take a trip see how it works out, make a note and eliminate what you don't use but brought anyway. Agree with other people's observation that your wife should be taking care of the dog and your kid helping to rig. Spend a lot of time telling the kid where things go and when they end up there praise them by saying good job, repeatedly, it'll instill a sense of ownership into them, and make them want to do it again, and take pride in doing it correctly


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## kengore (May 29, 2008)

Early in my rafting days I was invited on a Gates of Ladore trip with a group of retired raft guides. They had been boating together for decades and had it down to a near perfect plan. On the ramp the boats were loaded and in the water in less than 20 minutes. During the trip they were loaded in less than 10 minutes. It was a thing of beauty, like watching a well oiled machine.

On the other hand I have friends that will take 4-5 hours to load and rig for the same trip. The difference is simply good organization and planning.

The experienced boaters showed up with all the dry bags and coolers packed. No rearranging at the last minute. They knew where the straps were stored and had them pre-sorted by length and size. They had a rigging plan (written down on paper!), they new where each piece of gear was to go. And one person was in charge of loading, the boat captain.

One of the best purchases I have ever made is a big 'everything bag' similar to this: Everything Bag Cut my loading time in half.

Having a bad time on the ramp can really be stressful and is a poor start to the trip. Here are some things I do to make the rigging a bit stressful
1) If possible I like to arrive the night before and get a good nights rest. Or at least be with an hours drive.
2) Arrive early, less crowd and less desert heat improve the ramp experience.
3) Have a good meal before rigging. Hungry, tired cranky folks don't get along as well. I always pack some snacks for the ramp, feed anyone that seems cranky.
4) Have good group coordination so everyone is ready at the same time. Communicate clearly, we will arrive at the ramp at 8:00, we will rig and launch by 9:30. So everyone is on the same page.
5) For me rigging is a work in progress. Each time I load the boat I get a little better at it. I have started taking photos of the well rigged boat to use as a reference on the next trip. I also wrote down my strap usage, no more guessing.

Want to have the worst day on the ramp? Arrive late, drunk or hung over. Drive 5-6 hours non-stop and arrive tired and foggy headed. Time it so you can be on a concrete ramp when the desert temperature will be well over 100 degrees. Pack in a rush and leave critical things at home. Don't use a list, just wing it. Skip lunch because you are running late. Forget to gas up so your shuttle driver has to do it for you. Don't pack things ahead of time so you can be sorting cloths, food and gear on the ramp in huge 'garage sale' pile while your stuff gets mixed in with other groups.


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

kengore said:


> Early in my rafting days I was invited on a Gates of Ladore trip with a group of retired raft guides. They had been boating together for decades and had it down to a near perfect plan. On the ramp the boats were loaded and in the water in less than 20 minutes. During the trip they were loaded in less than 10 minutes. It was a thing of beauty, like watching a well oiled machine.
> 
> On the other hand I have friends that will take 4-5 hours to load and rig for the same trip. The difference is simply good organization and planning.
> 
> ...


A hearty second third and fourth and fifth for the everything bag, worth every last penny, toss it in the bag cinch it up throw a strap over the top of it and you are done. For what it's worth I think your pooches will like sitting on top of it as well because they can grab into the mesh with their toenails and it won't hurt a thing


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## mcfarrel (Apr 1, 2006)

MNichols said:


> Husband and wife teams usually have a system, the husband rigs the wife brings.


My wife and I also have a system. She has a cocktail or coffee and I do all the rigging.


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## B4otter (Apr 20, 2009)

"...dragging" and boating are not a good mix...


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## craven_morhead (Feb 20, 2007)

Sounds like a goddamned shitshow.

Before we had a trailer we were at about 1.5 hours to inflate and rig for an overnight trip.

Have a general idea where things will live. Though your mention of "hanging dry bags off to the sides" has me puzzled. Do you mean you're hanging dry bags to the outsides of your tubes? Like dangling near the water??

Anyway, have an idea of where you'll rig everything. Then, my approach for rigging is that Boat Captain is in the boat in the water and Assistant is ferrying gear from shore. "Ok, now hand me the green dry bag. Now the stove. Paco pads will be next, then the red dry bag..." Once you get some practice at it (particularly on, say, day 4 of a multiday float), Assistant should have a good idea of what bits come next. The approach avoids asses-and-elbows on the boat, and should cut down on all arguing.

As for how things are setup in my boat: Bow is for passenger legs and a couple snack drybags attached to internal D-rings. Front bay is for heavy things (water, metal), covered by a table, covered by pacos for a passenger seat. Then a big drybox (food and kitchen, plus other sundry shit). Then captain's foot bay with a day cooler to one side, first aid/pin/misc. captain's box to the other. Seat over cooler in Bay 4. Stern has a floor, it gets the soft things + sometimes propane bomb, covered by a mesh beaver tail.


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## IDriverRunner (Aug 18, 2015)

I would 100% recommend looking into a Pacific River Bag from Cascade River Gear. It's a game changer if you're looking to speed up loading/securing cargo in the boat.

_EDIT_ also: crack a beer when you first get to the ramp (time of day is not relevant). It helps put everything into perspective that you're there to enjoy where you are at and who you are there with.


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

IDriverRunner said:


> I would 100% recommend looking into a Pacific River Bag from Cascade River Gear. It's a game changer if you're looking to speed up loading/securing cargo in the boat.


For what it's worth, the offering from tuff River stuff is built better, and much easier to use. I've seen them both and the Cascade offering isn't bad, but it is more expensive and more difficult to use.. not to mention that tuffriver stuff makes things right here in the good old USA in Salida Colorado, is a veteran owned business, and the owner despite suffering from multiple sclerosis is still putting out river gear...

Just saying..


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## yesimapirate (Oct 18, 2010)

1. OP, you say teenager must watch dogs. Why not leave them in the van with windows down? Or tethered to van/trailer/tree/post/boat? .....at least for the critical items that you need assistance with. 

2. Kengore's advice is spot on. The right gear and prepping. 

3. I have to remind my spouse quite often that you can make an intense situation TRIPLE as intense if you add anger. (or whatever negative word you want to put in that sentence) I'm far from a marriage counselor, but it's not just the gear that makes it a slow messy process. Preventive human mentality measures must sometimes be taken too.

4. Don't be afraid to ask for help. It's not always true but Tina Turner's words are what come to mind - People on the river are happy to give.

5. If only doing class 1-2, why can't some of the less essential rigging happen while floating?

6. Rig while she's shuttling?

**None of these mean my rigging times are in the Guinness Book of Records, but I strive to not be the last ready **


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## IDriverRunner (Aug 18, 2015)

MNichols said:


> For what it's worth, the offering from tuff River stuff is built better, and much easier to use. I've seen them both and the Cascade offering isn't bad, but it is more expensive and more difficult to use.. not to mention that tuffriver stuff makes things right here in the good old USA in Salida Colorado, is a veteran owned business, and the owner despite suffering from multiple sclerosis is still putting out river gear...
> 
> Just saying..


Interesting! I've never come across a Tuff River bag like this, I've only seen the "Everything Bag", which looks like it is just step 1 of a 2 step closure system of the Pacific River Bag (I like the big clam shell over top of the cinched up bag). I replaced the straps with loop roller cam straps to make securing that make easier. I am genuinily curious how this is more difficult than a Tuff River. I'm always open to new ideas (especially if they make life easier!!).

Also, being a veteran myself, I am a HUGE fan and supporter of Veteran owned businesses!


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

IDriverRunner said:


> Interesting! I've never come across a Tuff River bag like this, I've only seen the "Everything Bag", which looks like it is just step 1 of a 2 step closure system of the Pacific River Bag (I like the big clam shell over top of the cinched up bag). I replaced the straps with loop roller cam straps to make securing that make easier. I am genuinily curious how this is more difficult than a Tuff River. I'm always open to new ideas (especially if they make life easier!!).
> 
> Also, being a veteran myself, I am a HUGE fan and supporter of Veteran owned businesses!


Tuffriverstuff.com invented the evwrything bag 20 years or more ago, everybody copied it added to it quote unquote improved it, it does not have the clamshell on top, but truth be told it doesn't need it. It's just one more thing to strap down, and if you get a big pile of gear in the back of your boat then it makes strapping that clamshell down a bit of a pain, also the tough river stuff offering is made from a stronger, and more for lack of a better word porous fabric which allows it to drain faster









Everything Bag


Tuff River Stuff offers top quality and custom made bags and cargo systems. The Revolutionary Everything Bag. Extremely Tuff River Gear and Camping Equipment, custom made vehicle and Pinzgauer covers, durable outdoor gear and whitewater rafting equipment




www.tuffriverstuff.com





I highly recommend it, but truth be told any offering from anyone else is better than nothing. I just find what Ray at tuffRiverstuff has to sell to be of a higher quality, and I too enjoy supporting USA made products, especially by veterans...

Yes, Ray is my friend, I first met him when we were both commercial boatmen in the Royal gorge on the Arkansas and he was making straps in his living room, which I might mention are also the best straps money can buy, each one with a d-ring near the buckle which provides a convenient attachment point. He is my friend, and I will shamelessly promote his business, but not just because he's my friend... For all of the reasons mentioned above


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

HitMcG said:


> It's better than being at work.





idahoriversrat said:


> I read your post and the last line is the most important. If you are really starting to dislike your happy place then then you really need to ask yourself "Am I happy to be on the river . . . . ?"


^^^
You are at the river to enjoy your time. Be way more Zen about it.



MNichols said:


> I would suggest pairing your load down to the absolute necessities, and some things that would be nice to have. Take a trip see how it works out, make a note and eliminate what you don't use but brought anyway.


Ruthless reductionism is a thing, and it is a good thing.
The less shit you bring, the less shit you have to deal with day after day. 
If it gets cold, you should be able to wear ALL your layers and be just warm enough. Don't bring so much "just in case" stuff. You don't need most of it.
Don't pare down your emergency stuff too much...but you don't need 2 pairs of jeans, a hoodie, a puffy, a shell, a sweater, and a couple t-shirts for a summer trip. For a fall trip, maybe one pair of pants and the puffy. Add inner thermal layers (smaller/lighter) than more outer thermal layers.

Find the joy in having less stuff, and nailing more and more trips with a "just right" load.

If you're unpacking stuff from a trip, take note of all the stuff you never used. You really need to question if it gets packed next time.



kengore said:


> One of the best purchases I have ever made is a big 'everything bag' similar to this: Everything Bag Cut my loading time in half.





MNichols said:


> For what it's worth, the offering from tuff River stuff is built better, and much easier to use.


Either version is better than a mess of straps. I agree, the TRS gear is bomber burly built. Tougher than the one I made for myself, for sure.

Loading gets a lot more simple when everyone knows where the stuff goes. Day 2-3 of a river trip, people can largely drop their own bags in order if you have a good sequence. Maybe it pares down a little during the trip as you consume food, or morphs in other areas when you create trash/recyclables. Having a big Santa Claus bag makes rigging a million times easier because you can just drop all the little bags in and not have to worry about rigging a strap through each.

I don't have a perfect pic of mine, but I just lace mine up the back and across the top, then spider straps over the top.
Oh, and back in to the beach. The majority of your stuff is in the back of the boat. Why carry it the length of the raft? Your bow passengers can walk down the boat and hit the beach, everything else that comes out nightly is in back. Maybe you climb on your boat to hit your cooler...but if you're sharing cooking duties, you may not be in your cooler several nights and then hit it heavily the couple nights its your cooking duty.

















It would take me ~1.5 hr to rig with straps, ~45min to rig with an everything bag, and under 1/2hr to rig a dory - throw gear in and slam hatches closed.
So it's not just your rigging skill or communication (or lack thereof) with your wife...it's also your rigging system that will make an enormous difference in rigging time and stress.
Not gonna lie, I love packing my dory. It's just 6 big connected floating dryboxes.












yesimapirate said:


> 1. OP, you say teenager must watch dogs. Why not leave them in the van with windows down? Or tethered to van/trailer/tree/post/boat? .....at least for the critical items that you need assistance with.


Absolutely tether the teenager if they're unwilling to help rigging!



yesimapirate said:


> 3. I have to remind my spouse quite often that you can make an intense situation TRIPLE as intense if you add anger. (or whatever negative word you want to put in that sentence) I'm far from a marriage counselor, but it's not just the gear that makes it a slow messy process. Preventive human mentality measures must sometimes be taken too.


Having been married for almost 25 years I've learned that some preventative humility also goes a long way, too. If you can admit you're hangry or grumpy before insinuating she is...hopefully she becomes part of your solution rather than a new problem.

Don't be one of those couples arguing on the ramp that others stare and laugh at.



yesimapirate said:


> 5. If only doing class 1-2, why can't some of the less essential rigging happen while floating?


IMHO if there's inessential stuff...it doesn't need to go on the trip in the first place.


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

MT4Runner said:


> ^^^
> You are at the river to enjoy your time. Be way more Zen about it.
> 
> 
> ...


Very well put.. 

Tethered teenagers though? Nice idea, but stuffing them into a Yakima space case cuts down on the noise at the ramp...


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

MNichols said:


> Very well put..
> 
> Tethered teenagers though? Nice idea, but stuffing them into a Yakima space case cuts down on the noise at the ramp...


Old old conversation on rec.boat.paddle newsgroup ...even before I had kids, was a debate older than draining coolers... about the proper way to restrain a kid on a rooftop rack. One poster suggested the Yakima box, but the consensus was to put a single strap through the teenagers' mouth, but _put a single twist in the strap_ to cut down on howling.


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

I remember usenet and rec.boat.paddle.. Damn, I truly didn't need that reminder of how old I'm getting lol...


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

"Sonny, I was arguing about boating with strangers on my 11" VGA green screen before your mammy ever met your pappy in an AOL chatroom!"


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

MT4Runner said:


> "Sonny, I was arguing about boating with strangers on my 11" VGA green screen before your mammy ever met your pappy in an AOL chatroom!"


You young whippersnapper!
I was using a teletype when you were just a glint in your pappy's eye!

I backed everything up on my paper tape punch 😂


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## gnarsify (Oct 5, 2020)

carvedog said:


> I do find that color coding straps does help me. All my four footers are green, sixes are dark blue, 10 footers are light blue etc. I also pre-rig straps in their locations even if I am not tying the gear on before travel.


However, if you just stuff your straps in a bag with no system in place, you can just ask your significant other to sort the knotted, tangled straps while you rig. That keeps them busy, focused, quiet and feeling like they're contributing.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

Dammit, you have me beat there.

I was using usenet through a terminal on a VAX/VMS mainframe...but am too young to have done punch cards!
(but did use a paper punch to make 5.25" floppies double-sided)


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

MT4Runner said:


> Dammit, you have me beat there.
> 
> I was using usenet through a terminal on a VAX/VMS mainframe...but am too young to have done punch cards!
> (but did use a paper punch to make 5.25" floppies double-sided)


You are a youngun.. I'm talking about a paper tape punch and a paper tape reader, spools of paper tape that when you use them it looked like braille but with holes instead of raised dots.. not a precursor to magnetic tape drives, but appeared on the scene at about the same time...


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

Oh, MT4 and myself are sorry about hijacking your thread. Back to our regularly scheduled programming


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## yesimapirate (Oct 18, 2010)

MT4Runner said:


> Having been married for almost 25 years I've learned that some preventative humility also goes a long way, too. If you can admit you're hangry or grumpy before insinuating she is...hopefully she becomes part of your solution rather than a new problem.


This is a valid point. Perhaps I should recalibrate to say that the mental check is for both parties of a relationship rigging.



MT4Runner said:


> IMHO if there's inessential stuff...it doesn't need to go on the trip in the first place.


Less essential item examples that I fiddle with after launching: The latest beer coozy gadget. The music device of your choice. The water guns. The kids' 3rd snack in the last hour. The 4th adult beverage and crazy creek for your passenger. That personal dry bag that you like clipped in a certain spot. You get what I'm saying. Things that shouldn't hold up launching, but always do. Similar to what others have said - I boat with a certain someone who will remain nameless that must have all items in their EXACT spot and securely fashioned before setting out for 5 miles of flat water.

Also, I don't have the affiliation to TRS that MNichols does, but can agree their products are quite bomb proof.

Also also, I don't claim to be old but I do have memories of 8 tracks tapes.


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## Ripper (Aug 29, 2012)

The arguments with the spouse will hopefully subside as more experience is gained. At least that was my experience... A root cause to our arguments was that she felt like she was in the way initially. I am fairly particular as most are when it comes to rigging... Have some patience, and get your spouse involved/explain why you like it a certain way. This went along ways with my spouse, and our timeliness once I realized the issue. 

Color coded straps, and drop bags (I hate NRS cooler/drybox brackets) will also help greatly. Frame straps are great as well, and will help in the rigging process greatly as you can leave them on with minimal strap flap during transport, in addition to the drop bags! At the end of each trip try to set yourself up for success on your next outing by being organized when you break down. Thoroughly cleaning gear, inspecting it for defects (repairing before the next launch if needed), and being organized with straps will help in the frustration. Also, coming up with a system to load your car/truck will help when offloading to the ramp. That way you are pulling the items to rig out of your vehicle in the order you want to rig the boat to minimize your footprint at the ramp. The truck loading took me a couple of floats to figure out... nothing is worse than having to pull everything out for the item you want to rig 1st.

I leave the dog tied up to the truck, and make the 8 yr old work. He typically works on topping off the raft while we rig. It helps with the time crunch of getting off the ramp, and gives him a since of ownership in the process as well. We pre-pack our bills bags, and load them with the cooler, drybox and whatever else at the ramp. Our trailer doesn't have rollers, so offloading a completely rigged boat doesn't always work with three of us to offload/load due to the weight.

Repetition and experience will greatly expedite the process over time! On shorter floats where we are setting our own shuttle, we will drop the boat and set shuttle while the other rigs it that is an option. This is where explaining how you like the boat rigged will really play into your favor.

The initial rig/setup at the begging of the season typically takes a few hours as I sort out last seasons mess... Once the season is underway we typically take about 15 minutes while waiting in line at the ramp, and 15 minutes at the ramp once the boat is in the water.

Stick with it, and it will get easier! Arguing with the crew at the ramp while rigging is exhausting! Save that energy for head winds!

Cheers!


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## GROH (Nov 10, 2013)

IDriverRunner said:


> Interesting! I've never come across a Tuff River bag like this, I've only seen the "Everything Bag", which looks like it is just step 1 of a 2 step closure system of the Pacific River Bag (I like the big clam shell over top of the cinched up bag). I replaced the straps with loop roller cam straps to make securing that make easier. I am genuinily curious how this is more difficult than a Tuff River. I'm always open to new ideas (especially if they make life easier!!).
> 
> Also, being a veteran myself, I am a HUGE fan and supporter of Veteran owned businesses!


the pacific river bag is not more difficult by any means and with the added clam shell over the top its bomber, and USA made also. Dude was just plugging the tuff river bag as superior, but not really. Both get the job done and help with loading bags quickly.


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## SpudCat (Aug 24, 2020)

Single parent w/ a 10 year old and 12 year old. I have a 16' cataraft that travels w/ tubes rolled & bagged. The three of us can typically be rigged and on the river (for multi-day) in 1 hour-ish.


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## powrider686 (Aug 12, 2009)

Crack a beer and make a cocktail before you do anything else and enjoy the time on the ramp rigging. It takes time to get it all dialed and enjoy the start of your vacation!


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## gnarsify (Oct 5, 2020)

Don't have much to add to all the good advice already posted. I'm not as meticulous as some of you guys, it sounds like, but we run a super duper puma so we have to rig relatively efficiently for anything more than 1 night. I do remember a few rough rigging sessions our first couple times going out, but as someone else said, if you practice at home with no pressure you'll know where things fit and not have to play tetris at the ramp. 

Also, you might be surprised how much your partner will notice just handing off gear while you rig. One of the best moments I've had rigging happened when I was asked by a stranger to run a quick a shuttle for them (they were taking out from a day float, as we were putting on for an overnight). I asked my wife to unload the truck and get things ready so I could rig quickly when I got back. I pulled into the parking lot to find her backing the trailer down the ramp with the boat rigged perfectly (I didn't even know she could back a trailer up!).


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## cnalder (Jul 7, 2016)

On launch day it can take an hour max. Once on the river even quicker. After you’ve done enough trips, you should get fairly efficient about how best to load your boat. Best part of a river trip should be enjoying the floating, cocktail hour, lounging, etc and minimizing the work part - packing, unpacking, camp setup/takedown.


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## graycloud (Jun 4, 2016)

Travel from Tennessee arrive at western boat ramp blow up raft load gear ready to go in one and half hours.Longest witnessed rigging was two guys at corn creek last year five and half hours.


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

graycloud said:


> Travel from Tennessee arrive at western boat ramp blow up raft load gear ready to go in one and half hours.Longest witnessed rigging was two guys at corn creek last year five and half hours.


How long did it take you to patch your raft after you blew it up?

Personally I've always had much more success inflating rafts, but that's just me lol


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## AbnMike (May 14, 2020)

I’ll spend a day prior in the driveway mock rigging and working everything out.

never spent more than 30 mins to an hour on site. I hate hate hate hate being the reason someone else has to wait so I back in, drop off, and get the fuck out of the way. Then once I’m off the ramp I fiddle around with last minute tying down.

Every time you return write down everything you brought but didn’t touch: from food to clothes to the extra tampon or can of dip.

next time either justify why you had it and didn’t touch it and need it again (bear spray) or had it and didn’t touch it and don’t need it (seal lined winter boots and the 35th extra can of Dinty Moore beef stew)


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

graycloud said:


> Longest witnessed rigging was two guys at corn creek last year five and half hours.


First, I'm shocked they took so long, and second I'm shocked you had the time to witness them for that span!! haha


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## LJPurvis (Apr 12, 2017)

I think if I had to wait behind anyone of the ramp for 3-4 hours I would not be too happy. I rig my boat as much as possible prior to leaving the house. There have only been a few times when that was not possible; mostly due to my raft going on somebody else's trailer a day or two before we leave. When that happens I have my coolers, dry box, dry bags, and miscellaneous stuff packed. Once on the ramp we put in the coolers, the drybox, then pack everything in the Barney Bag and we are ready. I don't have to blow it up and attach the frame; just load it. I would say that is about 30 minutes. If I had to blow it up and attach the frame then I would add another 30-40 minutes. But I would try to do the blowing up and frame attaching off to the side and not block the ramp.


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## thegoodpuppies (May 14, 2021)

kengore said:


> Early in my rafting days I was invited on a Gates of Ladore trip with a group of retired raft guides. They had been boating together for decades and had it down to a near perfect plan. On the ramp the boats were loaded and in the water in less than 20 minutes. During the trip they were loaded in less than 10 minutes. It was a thing of beauty, like watching a well oiled machine.
> 
> On the other hand I have friends that will take 4-5 hours to load and rig for the same trip. The difference is simply good organization and planning.
> 
> ...


Thank you for the "Everything Bag" tip...I will definitely look into that! It looks like if evenly packed even a dog could sit on top comfortably- plus it takes the work out of tons of NRS straps & bags hanging off of the raft. I also appreciate your less stressful #1-5 tips! I tend to get all caught up on getting on the river as fast as possible, and usually rush everyone through #1-3! I can't say I'm not the problem sometimes! 

Thank you!


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## thegoodpuppies (May 14, 2021)

B4otter said:


> "...dragging" and boating are not a good mix...


That's what it feels like! We all want family time together before the adults are too old to paddle and the teenager runs off to enjoy her own life, but it sure seems like I am dragging them along!


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## thegoodpuppies (May 14, 2021)

IDriverRunner said:


> I would 100% recommend looking into a Pacific River Bag from Cascade River Gear. It's a game changer if you're looking to speed up loading/securing cargo in the boat.
> 
> _EDIT_ also: crack a beer when you first get to the ramp (time of day is not relevant). It helps put everything into perspective that you're there to enjoy where you are at and who you are there with.


Thank you for the tip about the Pacific River Bag! I just looked into the other brand from another Buzzer and they both look beneficial for cutting down some of the load time! I'm a high strung person so I'm sure the beer(s) will help 🍻

Thank you!


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## thegoodpuppies (May 14, 2021)

MT4Runner said:


> ^^^
> You are at the river to enjoy your time. Be way more Zen about it.
> 
> 
> ...


You did an awesome job on touching upon many of the great perspectives pointed out to me! Being car campers for the past 5 years, everyone is used to bringing the kitchen sink- so downsizing is a huge thing we have to work on. And, I completely agree...I have so many damn straps that I could make a bridge across the river! Grant they are pre-placed; they are still a huge burden.


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## thegoodpuppies (May 14, 2021)

gnarsify said:


> Don't have much to add to all the good advice already posted. I'm not as meticulous as some of you guys, it sounds like, but we run a super duper puma so we have to rig relatively efficiently for anything more than 1 night. I do remember a few rough rigging sessions our first couple times going out, but as someone else said, if you practice at home with no pressure you'll know where things fit and not have to play tetris at the ramp.
> 
> Also, you might be surprised how much your partner will notice just handing off gear while you rig. One of the best moments I've had rigging happened when I was asked by a stranger to run a quick a shuttle for them (they were taking out from a day float, as we were putting on for an overnight). I asked my wife to unload the truck and get things ready so I could rig quickly when I got back. I pulled into the parking lot to find her backing the trailer down the ramp with the boat rigged perfectly (I didn't even know she could back a trailer up!).


I'd love to live in your world, but a few days ago I left my spouse at the launch ramp while getting gas for the motor and came back to them chilling out drinking a beer enjoying the river! Apparently, they know how to live and I somehow have my priorities screwed up!


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## thegoodpuppies (May 14, 2021)

jamesthomas said:


> Most folks take a long time to do the initial load on most trips I go on. You just have to be chill about it. As a trip progresses the loading process for most folks gets much faster. One guy I boat with never gets any faster. Seems he never loads the the boat the same way twice. Dude takes friggin forever.


Thank you for your understanding...I guess we are all Padawans at some time. Your friend sounds like my spouse...abstract and always trying new things, which isn't bad it is just hard to watch sometimes. I'm linear and need focus.


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## thegoodpuppies (May 14, 2021)

HitMcG said:


> Not sure what the ramps look like where you're boating, but having a dedicated raft trailer would greatly speed your rigging time at the ramp. I can't remember the last time I've need 4WD to put my boat/trailer out. If you absolutely can't have the dedicated trailer, I'd make peace with it, get there early (maybe the day before?) and have a drink while rigging. It's better than being at work.


I'd love the idea of a dedicated trailer but I'm down here in Southern Nevada and only get up to the Class I-II rivers a couple times a year. So my raft trailer doubles as a camping gear trailer the other non-water trips. Also, the rivers and lakes in the SW U.S. are taking such a huge hit from the drought that even Lake Mead's docks are a mess. The put in at Ruby-Horsethief (via Rimrock) was way too steep of a drop for my trailer. We slid the raft off onto the embankment, then lined up the cargo on the shore 3 feet up... still somehow at least two hours went by. Thank god Rimrock has a huge beach so we didn't irritate anyone! 

Anything is better than being at work even attempting to load the kitchen sink on a raft for hours in the desert sun while fighting with my spouse!


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## thegoodpuppies (May 14, 2021)

idahoriversrat said:


> I read your post and the last line is the most important. If you are really starting to dislike your happy place then then you really need to ask yourself "Am I happy to be on the river . . . . ?"


I guess that is why it is "my" happy place and not my family's! Hopefully things will cool down and all of the great tips I've gotten on this thread will mend their way into making rigging a more successful and pleasant experience. 

BTW- there are no other happy places out there... it is the river 🌊 or nothing!


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## thegoodpuppies (May 14, 2021)

yesimapirate said:


> 1. OP, you say teenager must watch dogs. Why not leave them in the van with windows down? Or tethered to van/trailer/tree/post/boat? .....at least for the critical items that you need assistance with.
> 
> 2. Kengore's advice is spot on. The right gear and prepping.
> 
> ...


Thank you for the breakdown of how to help! Sometimes just laying it out plain is simple makes things a bit easier to tackle and try!

Referring to #3.... we usually have a pre-crap show with the 7-9 hr drive to the night-before-the-launch campground, a crappy night's sleep knowing we have to repack all of the sleeping stuff back into the raft, a bit of indigestion from fast food on the road, and suddenly we have a recipe for disaster filled with tension! 

#4 We have met some amazing people at the launch ramps and a few buttheads. For what it is worth, we have always tucked ourselves away from the main launch area (dragged our cargo to a thin section of the beach) so we don't make anyone wait on us to get out of the way. River and lake people are awesome...sometimes I can't believe genuinely friendly people as such still exist! 

#5 great idea! We will try it!


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## thegoodpuppies (May 14, 2021)

Ripper said:


> The arguments with the spouse will hopefully subside as more experience is gained. At least that was my experience... A root cause to our arguments was that she felt like she was in the way initially. I am fairly particular as most are when it comes to rigging... Have some patience, and get your spouse involved/explain why you like it a certain way. This went along ways with my spouse, and our timeliness once I realized the issue.
> 
> Color coded straps, and drop bags (I hate NRS cooler/drybox brackets) will also help greatly. Frame straps are great as well, and will help in the rigging process greatly as you can leave them on with minimal strap flap during transport, in addition to the drop bags! At the end of each trip try to set yourself up for success on your next outing by being organized when you break down. Thoroughly cleaning gear, inspecting it for defects (repairing before the next launch if needed), and being organized with straps will help in the frustration. Also, coming up with a system to load your car/truck will help when offloading to the ramp. That way you are pulling the items to rig out of your vehicle in the order you want to rig the boat to minimize your footprint at the ramp. The truck loading took me a couple of floats to figure out... nothing is worse than having to pull everything out for the item you want to rig 1st.
> 
> ...


Thank you for your positive thoughts! I admit I have a "personal" problem with patience and just assume an adult would know what to do, which is completely arrogant of me. I assume my passion, being out in nature and on the river, is their passion, of which it is not. Gratefully, my spouse states that even through all of this crap they come with to spend time with myself and our daughter. Thanks again for the positive vibes! As my spouse would say- "no one ever went to college wearing diapers!"


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## thegoodpuppies (May 14, 2021)

SpudCat said:


> Single parent w/ a 10 year old and 12 year old. I have a 16' cataraft that travels w/ tubes rolled & bagged. The three of us can typically be rigged and on the river (for multi-day) in 1 hour-ish.


Keep your bragging to yourself 😁... we are a work in progress! Just kidding, there are a ton of awesome people here that have it down and your family is part of that group! My family is in the trial-and-error-group. Lots of errors so far...


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## coult45 (May 14, 2020)

coach your child and spouse on how they can help instead of being high strung and becoming frustrated by their every move. Seriously, if you teach them how you want it done, you’ll be the one sitting on the river bank enjoying a beer while they are buttoning up the final hatches.


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## AbnMike (May 14, 2020)

thegoodpuppies said:


> I admit I have a "personal" problem with patience and just assume an adult would know what to do…


We are the same but I still expect it.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

Hey @thegoodpuppies, you got some really constructive advice (not all of it fun) and you took it in stride. I hope you feel less stress on subsequent trips and everything gets more and more amazing for you.



thegoodpuppies said:


> I'd love to live in your world, but a few days ago I left my spouse at the launch ramp while getting gas for the motor and came back to them chilling out drinking a beer enjoying the river! Apparently, they know how to live and I somehow have my priorities screwed up!


Hey, looks like they took the next step before you--get with their program!! That's awesome. Sounds like you picked a good spouse--you can shift your own priorities a lot quicker than you can shift a spouse! haha


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## gnarsify (Oct 5, 2020)

thegoodpuppies said:


> I'd love to live in your world, but a few days ago I left my spouse at the launch ramp while getting gas for the motor and came back to them chilling out drinking a beer enjoying the river! Apparently, they know how to live and I somehow have my priorities screwed up!


This wasn't something she did the first year of boating, it took a couple seasons and both of us acknowledging what works and what doesn't. Our first year, I'd considered it a great rigging session if I was left alone and she was enjoying a beer by river. I just wanted her to have fun and enjoy the river, and I actually enjoy the process of rigging, so I was happy being left to my own devices. Eventually, she started to come over to try and help (mostly to see if we could get on the water more quickly), at first this was hard because she didn't know the system I had come up with to rig by myself. My strap-bag comment was an actual technique, she wanted to partake in the process so I'd give her busy work while I did my thing. This slowly evolved into her handing me cargo and learning the order of how things are loaded (funny sidebar - she learned a good lesson on how to pack when she asked for her rain jacket that was packed at the bottom of her overnight bag, which was buried at the bottom of the gear pile), then helping strap things down, then her rigging the front bays where she spends most of the time, to finally surprising the hell out of me and getting the boat on the water without me there.

Long story short, be patient and make sure your family is having fun (what's the point if everyone is grumpy?). Learn to love the problem solving and creativity that rigging can require, look at how other people load and rig, keep asking questions especially when boating with other people, and make sure to enjoy a beer or three while rigging up.


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## BenSlaughter (Jun 16, 2017)

Patience is paramount.
Don't sweat the petty things(.......)
Last morning on an 8 day Main Salmon Trip(our 11th total multi-day boating together) I barked at the girlfriend when she tried handing me camp chairs(which go on last), before anything else.
I expected that she'd know the order that things got loaded by then, but she didn't.
We all have different expectations. I shouldn't have been short with her, but she probably could have paid more attention to the process.

She ended up getting drunk that day, culminated in her standing in the hallway of a nice hotel, buck nekked, hollering after me when I went out to feed my dog. 😄

Still makes me chuckle...


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## B4otter (Apr 20, 2009)

And watch out if you pet the sweaty things...


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

B4otter said:


> And watch out if you pet the sweaty things...


I didn't hear anyone offering to pet you lol


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## B4otter (Apr 20, 2009)

I'm choosy that way.


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

B4otter said:


> I'm choosy that way.


I'm not thinking that your choice plays any real role in it...

Bwahahahaha!
😎🤣


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## Pine (Aug 15, 2017)

My goal is to be off the launch ramp in less than three minutes. Everything is pre-loaded and pre-rigged in the boat before it even leaves the garage. Once launched, we might spend 15 minutes topping off the boat and rigging up fishing rods. On my last Middle Fork Trip, at the take out, we had the boat out of the water and tied to the trailer in under 90 seconds. When I finally get my electric winch installed, I think I can get that down to under 60 seconds.


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## Pinchecharlie (Jul 27, 2017)

Iam a little late to the party but as a new boater and a father of two I can relate and I suck at organization so... I have the absolute privilege of boating with three girls and two really dumb dogs. Iam also the only gear head and I get super fussy about my stuff and fussy about where it goes. So I gotta do a whole lot to make them care and I gotta do all the pre travel work, row and most of the heavy lifting. My girls do their own gear and sleep stuff but that's about it. After pissing and moaning and being butthurt that the girls weren't hardcore senders I decided that it's on me to just not care. I get it all ready and I leave early but otherwise it is what it is and I'd rather my wife walk a dog and my kid throw rocks at stuff than be all bent outa shape my rigs not rockn on time. Helps to breath and if you yell at your wife at the put in she may snub your advancements at lay over camp (and even longer) just sayn. Here's a before and after gear pile for a seven day trip at home. I do a pile for each system; sleep, camp, emergency cook ect ect. I give the girls a small dry duffle for themselves and I do everything else. After I do my piles I do a check list and a shopping list. Go shopping check the list as it goes into boxes and get everything in piles in the truck where it goes on boat. Ie- ist box 2nd box , gear pile ect ect.. Then it's two boxes , cooler and a gear pile a few straps and we're off.i also leave the straps on the boat. If iam really stressed I just go a day early, wake up at 5am and load the boat with a headlamp. No anger no wtf, kids are fresh and takes less than a hour with parking. Wife gladly accepts advancements at camp and we all live happily ever after. Except the dogs who roll in shit.


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## Gchapman (Feb 26, 2018)

Lots of great suggestions for getting off the ramp quicker, but my question is “Who cares?” Our society loves to turn everything into a competition, but I’ve not seen any gold medals or extra testosterone awarded for short rigging time. The company I work for has joked for years that we’re the first on (the ramp) and last off. Does that make us worse boaters or mean we don’t have as much fun? I really don’t think so. Drop your gear out of the way and take your time rigging and enjoy the beautiful outdoors. It’s STILL better than working.


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## thegoodpuppies (May 14, 2021)

gnarsify said:


> This wasn't something she did the first year of boating, it took a couple seasons and both of us acknowledging what works and what doesn't. Our first year, I'd considered it a great rigging session if I was left alone and she was enjoying a beer by river. I just wanted her to have fun and enjoy the river, and I actually enjoy the process of rigging, so I was happy being left to my own devices. Eventually, she started to come over to try and help (mostly to see if we could get on the water more quickly), at first this was hard because she didn't know the system I had come up with to rig by myself. My strap-bag comment was an actual technique, she wanted to partake in the process so I'd give her busy work while I did my thing. This slowly evolved into her handing me cargo and learning the order of how things are loaded (funny sidebar - she learned a good lesson on how to pack when she asked for her rain jacket that was packed at the bottom of her overnight bag, which was buried at the bottom of the gear pile), then helping strap things down, then her rigging the front bays where she spends most of the time, to finally surprising the hell out of me and getting the boat on the water without me there.
> 
> Long story short, be patient and make sure your family is having fun (what's the point if everyone is grumpy?). Learn to love the problem solving and creativity that rigging can require, look at how other people load and rig, keep asking questions especially when boating with other people, and make sure to enjoy a beer or three while rigging up.





Pinchecharlie said:


> Iam a little late to the party but as a new boater and a father of two I can relate and I suck at organization so... I have the absolute privilege of boating with three girls and two really dumb dogs. Iam also the only gear head and I get super fussy about my stuff and fussy about where it goes. So I gotta do a whole lot to make them care and I gotta do all the pre travel work, row and most of the heavy lifting. My girls do their own gear and sleep stuff but that's about it. After pissing and moaning and being butthurt that the girls weren't hardcore senders I decided that it's on me to just not care. I get it all ready and I leave early but otherwise it is what it is and I'd rather my wife walk a dog and my kid throw rocks at stuff than be all bent outa shape my rigs not rockn on time. Helps to breath and if you yell at your wife at the put in she may snub your advancements at lay over camp (and even longer) just sayn. Here's a before and after gear pile for a seven day trip at home. I do a pile for each system; sleep, camp, emergency cook ect ect. I give the girls a small dry duffle for themselves and I do everything else. After I do my piles I do a check list and a shopping list. Go shopping check the list as it goes into boxes and get everything in piles in the truck where it goes on boat. Ie- ist box 2nd box , gear pile ect ect.. Then it's two boxes , cooler and a gear pile a few straps and we're off.i also leave the straps on the boat. If iam really stressed I just go a day early, wake up at 5am and load the boat with a headlamp. No anger no wtf, kids are fresh and takes less than a hour with parking. Wife gladly accepts advancements at camp and we all live happily ever after. Except the dogs who roll in shit.
> View attachment 70317
> View attachment 70318


Thanks for the pictures! I can totally see order in the madness- referring to the top pic! Obviously the bottom is much more in check- maybe it's a perception thing. I swear I have twice the amount of your stuff! 

I see a canoe barrel in the background...do you use that on your raft as a misc catch-all or a food-catch to prevent wild animals from nibbling through your bags? I contemplated buying one instead of a bear bags...do you like yours?


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## thegoodpuppies (May 14, 2021)

Gchapman said:


> Lots of great suggestions for getting off the ramp quicker, but my question is “Who cares?” Our society loves to turn everything into a competition, but I’ve not seen any gold medals or extra testosterone awarded for short rigging time. The company I work for has joked for years that we’re the first on (the ramp) and last off. Does that make us worse boaters or mean we don’t have as much fun? I really don’t think so. Drop your gear out of the way and take your time rigging and enjoy the beautiful outdoors. It’s STILL better than working.


I agree to a point- my family is still novice in this whole rafting thing so we have to make sure we have enough time to get our butts out of a bind (losing crap, forgetting stuff, a hole in the boat, passing the intended campsite) before nightfall! 

And, you are so right, I'll probably be back here next year asking "what do you do when you arrive early to your river campsite that is pressed into a canyon wall and there's no hiking available?" If I'm not physically moving, I start drifting off! Ironically, I was cruising around other Buzzer posts and ran into a book that I just "needed" to buy In Praise of Slowness: Challenging the Cult of Speed by Honore. Our society has definitely turned even beer drinking into a competition! IMHO- that just means less to drink later; at least later you can actually enjoy the rich flavors and serenity of the river!


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## thegoodpuppies (May 14, 2021)

gnarsify said:


> This wasn't something she did the first year of boating, it took a couple seasons and both of us acknowledging what works and what doesn't. Our first year, I'd considered it a great rigging session if I was left alone and she was enjoying a beer by river. I just wanted her to have fun and enjoy the river, and I actually enjoy the process of rigging, so I was happy being left to my own devices. Eventually, she started to come over to try and help (mostly to see if we could get on the water more quickly), at first this was hard because she didn't know the system I had come up with to rig by myself. My strap-bag comment was an actual technique, she wanted to partake in the process so I'd give her busy work while I did my thing. This slowly evolved into her handing me cargo and learning the order of how things are loaded (funny sidebar - she learned a good lesson on how to pack when she asked for her rain jacket that was packed at the bottom of her overnight bag, which was buried at the bottom of the gear pile), then helping strap things down, then her rigging the front bays where she spends most of the time, to finally surprising the hell out of me and getting the boat on the water without me there.
> 
> Long story short, be patient and make sure your family is having fun (what's the point if everyone is grumpy?). Learn to love the problem solving and creativity that rigging can require, look at how other people load and rig, keep asking questions especially when boating with other people, and make sure to enjoy a beer or three while rigging up.


Thank you for the optimism! Five years of car camping and they still wait on me to point out where crap should go when loading the car or trailer 😭. I lurked at MountainBuzz posts for years trying to figure out (via the rigging porn posts) how people put all of their crap into 12, 14, 16 ft rubber boats... and still have room for the passengers. This perplexes me, but I'm pretty sure if I ever snapped a good photo many would say that I leave way too much empty space for the living objects (3 humans and 2 pups). I just want everyone to be comfortable. Hey, maybe I should get one of those Jorge Jetson mother-in-law pull behinds- that would solve some of my issues!


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## thegoodpuppies (May 14, 2021)

BenSlaughter said:


> Patience is paramount.
> Don't sweat the petty things(.......)
> Last morning on an 8 day Main Salmon Trip(our 11th total multi-day boating together) I barked at the girlfriend when she tried handing me camp chairs(which go on last), before anything else.
> I expected that she'd know the order that things got loaded by then, but she didn't.
> ...


Slightly off topic, but you mentioned your dog. So when you bring your co-pilot(s) what do you bring for him/her/them? We do desert trips so I bring two raised dog cots to keep them off the ground from scorpions (one of mine eats everything that moves and the other likes her "home base"), two foldable soft beds for the tent because the humans get something comfortable at night, ~20 lbs of dog food, dog coats, and then two dog blankets because I'm freezing so they must be too; oops almost forgot the tennis balls!. I can't leave them home, not for flat floats, that is sac-religious! (Two of everything because we have two rescue pups- a Collie love child and a Shepherd love child that have gone on every trip with us.) It may seem like I spoil them, but my pups are there through thick and thin, plus they never argue back  so I feel the need to take care of them!

Any thoughts on too much or too little for the pups' cargo?


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## BenSlaughter (Jun 16, 2017)

Your dogs definitely have it better than mine! 😀
I have a pad for Reuben, and food. I've been contemplating getting him a little tent for inclimate weather, but he's happy to sleep on a pad by my pillow, most nights.
I quit taking tennis balls after he lost a couple, so it's just driftwood sticks for fetching fodder.
20# of food seems excessive. I just portion it out based on days we'll be gone, plus some for contingency. I keep it in a 3 gallon bucket with a gamma seal lid. His bowl gets used to rinse the sand out of my boat in the morning.

He's the best friend I've got. Has been on every overnight trip I've done, save for the high water MF\Main trip I did a few years ago.








Oh, and his CFD. Although he typically doesn't wear it much.


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## Pinchecharlie (Jul 27, 2017)

Yep you gotta pack for everyone and pack everything they need lol. We have two waterproof thermorest looking dog bed deals. Think they where a Costco deal? They just get straped on top of stuff and dogs ride there then go on ground at camps. I did buy a few collapsible dog bowls for food and water and their foods in a big kittie litter style jug thing. Only thing that helps is leaving stuff behind lol and going light on clothes and "stuff". My little one has a giant art box that allways makes me go "huh" but she's a crafter doodler and so it goes lol. I feel ya it's a big job . So you just gotta get a head start and get up in the dark and get er done so your a hero! Canoe barrel has been deemed the "snack barrel" works good but definitely wouldn't stand a chance against bears. Like I said iam new and each time it gets easier. Now all the gear lives in the garage in "units" . I bet I could get ready in two days of after work for a big trip short of food. We even talk about deep freezing meals in spring so we can just load up and go short notice. Seems like the only permits are cancellation ones so better get good at short notice!! Keep on keeping on and she'll be right eventually and someday you'll be taking two boats lol!


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## jbLaramie (Feb 1, 2021)

Your post brings back memories for how we started doing this. Me, wife & kids (4, 5, 7) and without any rafting friends or family so on our own to figure it out. First trip was ruby horse thief & total shit show. 3+ hours to rig, fried tempers at 100+ degrees, skeeters to suck a fat man dry and stressed about making it to 1st night camp. Remember other rafters watching us and smiling. Few things we do to make it better:

Preassemble frame attached to trailer - pool noodles make great pads between trailer & frame. Pre-Attach Bimini and needed straps to frame where they go as much as possible
Dry bags pre-packed one for each person days before the trip
Drop bag for loose stuff
Minimize amount of loose stuff
Kids & wife assembly line gear from vehicle to beach that they can handle
I alone rig & one person hangs around to toss me stuff (can switch off). Kids play or eat lunch/snacks
Lower standards for perfectly balanced rigging if there are only class II or mild III for the first day. Throw crap in the boat, secure it with a net and get going. Nothing like being on the water to calm things down. Can fine tune the rigging the next morning with a lot less stress.
Find a good division of labor for on the river. Kids & wife lug, set up & take down tent and everything in it while I do the kitchen, cook & clean up. Nobody back seat drives.
Don’t bring every damn thing we own for contingency reasons. Bring what’s needed and make do.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

thegoodpuppies said:


> Any thoughts on too much or too little for the pups' cargo?


My 12 year-old rescue Labs were Alaska pups. They lay outside on my deck in the snow when they get bored inside, so I don't really worry all that much about blankets for them.
...they sleep on the sand wherever...but I do notice they tend to cuddle against me on my PVC pad during the night.

Like BenSlaughter said, rations for the days you'll be out plus one day. Plus some joint treats and doggy aspirin since they tend to exert more on the river than at home.


















My little alarm systems alerted me to a bear in camp on Sat night!


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

I don't see as much need for a CFD for my pups for flatwater, but it sure is easy when they have a handle in the middle of their back!


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## thegoodpuppies (May 14, 2021)

BenSlaughter said:


> Your dogs definitely have it better than mine! 😀
> I have a pad for Reuben, and food. I've been contemplating getting him a little tent for inclimate weather, but he's happy to sleep on a pad by my pillow, most nights.
> I quit taking tennis balls after he lost a couple, so it's just driftwood sticks for fetching fodder.
> 20# of food seems excessive. I just portion it out based on days we'll be gone, plus some for contingency. I keep it in a 3 gallon bucket with a gamma seal lid. His bowl gets used to rinse the sand out of my boat in the morning.
> ...


Beautiful pup! Looks like Reuben is a comfy place ! That's wonderful that you are able to take him with on your trips...I'm sure he greatly appreciates it; even if he is a bow ornament!

Sorry I should have clarified- I take a 20 gallon bug-proof food container and pack all of my two pups edible stuff in there: food, balls, pumpkin in case one has potty problems, rawhides, emergency kit for them, and a couple of small bags of treats.


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## thegoodpuppies (May 14, 2021)

Pinchecharlie said:


> Yep you gotta pack for everyone and pack everything they need lol. We have two waterproof thermorest looking dog bed deals. Think they where a Costco deal? They just get straped on top of stuff and dogs ride there then go on ground at camps. I did buy a few collapsible dog bowls for food and water and their foods in a big kittie litter style jug thing. Only thing that helps is leaving stuff behind lol and going light on clothes and "stuff". My little one has a giant art box that allways makes me go "huh" but she's a crafter doodler and so it goes lol. I feel ya it's a big job . So you just gotta get a head start and get up in the dark and get er done so your a hero! Canoe barrel has been deemed the "snack barrel" works good but definitely wouldn't stand a chance against bears. Like I said iam new and each time it gets easier. Now all the gear lives in the garage in "units" . I bet I could get ready in two days of after work for a big trip short of food. We even talk about deep freezing meals in spring so we can just load up and go short notice. Seems like the only permits are cancellation ones so better get good at short notice!! Keep on keeping on and she'll be right eventually and someday you'll be taking two boats lol!


Thanks for the reply- I guess I'll skip the barrel. I emailed one of the company's that makes those and they said although not bear-proof, they have never heard of any bear taking out of theirs. I'll play on the safe side and get a bear canister or bag. (I was just reading about bear activity at May Flats on RH.) The desert topography doesn't really have trees to hang the bags from so I was looking for another (larger) option. My search shall continue.

Also kudos to you and bringing your little one's art box!! One day she'll look back fondly and really appreciate the extra effort you made in ensuring her happiness! Maybe not next trip, especially not when she's a teen, but hopefully somewhere down the road! And, maybe you'll find a frame or some tape for those beautiful drawings and keep everyone reminded of the great times spent on the river!

As for the pups, the thermorest sounds like a nice option! Since we hang out in the SW desert most frequently, I got two raised cots online so the breeze can blow up through the bottom for my fur balls. 

One newbie to the next- Safe travels on your future adventures!


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## thegoodpuppies (May 14, 2021)

MT4Runner said:


> My 12 year-old rescue Labs were Alaska pups. They lay outside on my deck in the snow when they get bored inside, so I don't really worry all that much about blankets for them.
> ...they sleep on the sand wherever...but I do notice they tend to cuddle against me on my PVC pad during the night.
> 
> Like BenSlaughter said, rations for the days you'll be out plus one day. Plus some joint treats and doggy aspirin since they tend to exert more on the river than at home.
> ...


Your pups look like they have beautiful blessed souls! Wonderful to hear they are still your adventure partners! My terrier mix continued kayaking on Class II until she was 16 yr olds. We lost her last winter to liver failure. That old girl could outlast anyone in this family, plus she was happy at the launch ramps be it 30 minutes or two hours! Although being small and older, Santa brought her the snowsuit type doggie coat a few years ago- thicker than a human coat. We also carried the bottle of CBD with to take away any aches or pains, plus it was great to use for the humans too. Now we have these two new rambunctious rescues that are still learning the ropes, and how to cope with stressed out humans at the launch ramp. 

P.S. Extra treats and belly rubs for alerting you to bears in the camp!


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## thegoodpuppies (May 14, 2021)

jbLaramie said:


> Your post brings back memories for how we started doing this. Me, wife & kids (4, 5, 7) and without any rafting friends or family so on our own to figure it out. First trip was ruby horse thief & total shit show. 3+ hours to rig, fried tempers at 100+ degrees, skeeters to suck a fat man dry and stressed about making it to 1st night camp. Remember other rafters watching us and smiling. Few things we do to make it better:
> 
> Preassemble frame attached to trailer - pool noodles make great pads between trailer & frame. Pre-Attach Bimini and needed straps to frame where they go as much as possible
> Dry bags pre-packed one for each person days before the trip
> ...


I'm glad I'm not alone rigging for 3 hrs- at least for the first couple times. No mosquitos when we went to RH a week ago, but bees and more bees. I got a nice souvenir to take home as I couldn't scrape out or pluck on the stupid stinger. I can checkmark the 1st two of your bullets after that it is a work in progress. Thank you for your tips! It sounds like you and your family have it worked out!


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## co_bjread (Oct 26, 2004)

Just found this post, and haven't been able to read all the way through yet, so forgive me if I say something that already came up. One thing that I think would help is for both of you to adjust your expectations. Once you show up, get your mind on river time, where it doesn't matter so much.

Another trick my wife and I figured out is that we don't ever state a desired departure or arrival time. We used to, but we found that put a lot of undue pressure on both of us, which lead to those types of arguments. Once we figured that out, we realized we don't have a lot of control over departure times, but we do have control over the time we start getting ready. So, now we'll state the time we are going to start getting our day ready, then accept that we will leave or be on the water whenever the work is done that gets us there. That simple change in mindset has made the work much easier, more relaxed, and has enabled us to become more efficient.


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## AbnMike (May 14, 2020)

thegoodpuppies said:


> Any thoughts on too much or too little for the pups' cargo?


We have two rescues:

A 7lb yorkie that kills prairie dogs - or did before she turned 15

A 60 lb Lab/spaniel/pit mix.

we bring dry food and they protest a day before eating since it’s not mixed with their regular wet, and a waterproof bed they share outside. They protest that too since usually they sleep in the house but they get over it.

If it’s freezing they’ll come in the tent. Short of that their job as dogs is to warn us of danger and be the first line of bear defense so we can protect our toddler.

our dogs go everywhere with us, but…they’re dogs.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

thegoodpuppies said:


> No mosquitos when we went to RH a week ago, but bees and more bees. I got a nice souvenir to take home as I couldn't scrape out or pluck on the stupid stinger. I can checkmark the 1st two of your bullets after that it is a work in progress.


Stung by actual bees? 
I always feel bad to hear of a bee sting and knowing the bee died. I hope none of you have anaphylactic reactions.

I love bees. But I abhor yellow jackets. They can all die in fire. Twice.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

thegoodpuppies said:


> Beautiful pup! Looks like Reuben is a comfy place ! That's wonderful that you are able to take him with on your trips...I'm sure he greatly appreciates it; even if he is a bow ornament!
> 
> Sorry I should have clarified- I take a 20 gallon bug-proof food container and pack all of my two pups edible stuff in there: food, balls, pumpkin in case one has potty problems, rawhides, emergency kit for them, and a couple of small bags of treats.


Holy schnikes, your dogs are spoiled!!!

Mine have a 1gal baggie of dry food and a couple blankets that they lay on either on the boat or ground. My male Lab chews up balls on the boat and loses them on shore, so they stay home.
Their reward is being right.by.me. and constant ear scratches and tummy rubs for an entire weekend.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

thegoodpuppies said:


> Thanks for the reply- I guess I'll skip the barrel. I emailed one of the company's that makes those and they said although not bear-proof, they have never heard of any bear taking out of theirs. I'll play on the safe side and get a bear canister or bag. (I was just reading about bear activity at May Flats on RH.) The desert topography doesn't really have trees to hang the bags from so I was looking for another (larger) option. My search shall continue.


Bear activity is up in general right now...bears are entering hyperphagia and looking for mass calories before they den up for the winter.


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## Flaco (Nov 18, 2014)

I have been That Guy. I know where I want everything on my boat, I know what size strap is needed in each spot. I spend hours staring at my boat, imagining how to achieve a tighter rig. Some times, I guess I have been rude...

When I finally look up and say, 'Ok, all aboard!' they are often looking at me like they just watched me strangle a bunny.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

Then I have to admit to having been the other That Guy.

I know where I want everything on the boat, but it's a personal race to be all packed, strapped, and lids closed, with a beer in my hand, ready to push off when everyone else is still pulling their hair out.
I may or may not have uttered the words "Gotta tell you: your dad's shit's dialed." followed by my daughter looking at me like I just strangled a bunny.


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## Pinchecharlie (Jul 27, 2017)

You guys are funny! I'll be saying "stop strangling bunnies! " now whenever someone's going all ocd lol!


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## B4otter (Apr 20, 2009)

Class I or II - even III a ways out - and including the Grand up to the "serious" rapids, throw that stuff on and rig while you row. Only downside is losing a few strokes to 
others who may be a bit more "ready." Everybody piles up to look at anything "serious." Strap while you float, drink while you strap...


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## jbLaramie (Feb 1, 2021)

thegoodpuppies said:


> I'm glad I'm not alone rigging for 3 hrs- at least for the first couple times. No mosquitos when we went to RH a week ago, but bees and more bees. I got a nice souvenir to take home as I couldn't scrape out or pluck on the stupid stinger. I can checkmark the 1st two of your bullets after that it is a work in progress. Thank you for your tips! It sounds like you and your family have it worked out!


We’re more efficient now for sure; about an hour to hour and a half depending on the ramp - like you, we have to inflate the raft on site. A change in my attitude and being more calm with the fam as well and making travel plans to arrive earlier (day before if possible) have been just as important as an increase in efficiency on the ramp. 

2nd on the everything and cascade river bags. Another option for now is the nrs cargo net over the crap in the back of the boat. Having a single 15’ strap that runs through all the D rings and ties the net down around the rear of the raft and a 9’ strap to connect the ends of the 15’ across the raft near your seat works loads better/faster than separately securing the net to each D ring with different straps for each attachment point.


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## Will Amette (Jan 28, 2017)

jbLaramie said:


> 2nd on the everything and cascade river bags. Another option for now is the nrs cargo net over the crap in the back of the boat. Having a single 15’ strap that runs through all the D rings and ties the net down around the rear of the raft and a 9’ strap to connect the ends of the 15’ across the raft near your seat works loads better/faster than separately securing the net to each D ring with different straps for each attachment point.



I am planning to add a bag to my kit really soon. Until then, my load is pretty secure and fairly easy to load after I figure out how to pack it the first day. Generally gets easier after the initial rig. Load varies depending on how many people and what gear we have to divvy up. I bought my boat as a lightly-used 17-year-old model. It came with some accessories including an NRS cargo platform (kind of a soft beaver board), a heavy duty net bag thingy and an NRS cargo net or equivalent. The big bag thing goes on the floor, and the load gets put in. I cinch up the bag and run a strap through it like a web to keep all the contents in. But it's not attached to the boat. The cargo net goes over the top. I attach a strap to the bar of the dry box I sit on with a girth hitch and another on the stern tube. The free end of one goes around one side and gets weaved through both the cargo net and the net bag as well as the D-rings. It gets secured to the buckle on the other end. Other side of boat gets the other strap. Passenger can help with one side. Then I run one more strap over the top. Belt and suspenders. And another belt. It's pretty secure, and it's not hard to rig, but it's a LOT longer to secure than an everything bag.

One of my GC trips a couple friends brought their 16' SOTAR; the rest of the rafts were 16' or 18' NRS boats rented from Ceiba. The couple who brought their own boat had an everything bag. The rest of us just had a lot of straps. My ex would get upset with them because they would be rigged first every day. We could have been just as fast if we had brought an everything bag.

Still not a fan of Barney Bags. I worry the zipper will fail from silt/sand/grit. They also don't have drain holes, so if they DO take on water.... Heavy.

My ex used to get upset at a couple friends who DID have an everything bag and were done rigging while everyone else was still loading.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

Will Amette said:


> One of my GC trips a couple friends brought their 16' SOTAR; the rest of the rafts were 16' or 18' NRS boats rented from Ceiba. The couple who brought their own boat had an everything bag. The rest of us just had a lot of straps. My ex would get upset with them because they would be rigged first every day. We could have been just as fast if we had brought an everything bag.
> 
> My ex used to get upset at a couple friends who DID have an everything bag and were done rigging while everyone else was still loading.


Well, good thing she's your ex now!! or was that the cause??! haha


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## jbLaramie (Feb 1, 2021)

MT4Runner said:


> Well, good thing she's your ex now!! or was that the cause??! haha


Rewarding way to be petty would be to buy an everything bag and send a pic. Nothing says moving onward & upward like a gear upgrade.


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## thegoodpuppies (May 14, 2021)

co_bjread said:


> Just found this post, and haven't been able to read all the way through yet, so forgive me if I say something that already came up. One thing that I think would help is for both of you to adjust your expectations. Once you show up, get your mind on river time, where it doesn't matter so much.
> 
> Another trick my wife and I figured out is that we don't ever state a desired departure or arrival time. We used to, but we found that put a lot of undue pressure on both of us, which lead to those types of arguments. Once we figured that out, we realized we don't have a lot of control over departure times, but we do have control over the time we start getting ready. So, now we'll state the time we are going to start getting our day ready, then accept that we will leave or be on the water whenever the work is done that gets us there. That simple change in mindset has made the work much easier, more relaxed, and has enabled us to become more efficient.


Thank you for you optimism in getting out there! One small problem in my household, I am a morning person- like crack of daylight or before and my spouse is a night person- doesn't like to/ they claim mentally ? unable to before 2am. I will definitely take your tip on mindset and see if we can work around what we do have control over!


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## thegoodpuppies (May 14, 2021)

Will Amette said:


> I am planning to add a bag to my kit really soon. Until then, my load is pretty secure and fairly easy to load after I figure out how to pack it the first day. Generally gets easier after the initial rig. Load varies depending on how many people and what gear we have to divvy up. I bought my boat as a lightly-used 17-year-old model. It came with some accessories including an NRS cargo platform (kind of a soft beaver board), a heavy duty net bag thingy and an NRS cargo net or equivalent. The big bag thing goes on the floor, and the load gets put in. I cinch up the bag and run a strap through it like a web to keep all the contents in. But it's not attached to the boat. The cargo net goes over the top. I attach a strap to the bar of the dry box I sit on with a girth hitch and another on the stern tube. The free end of one goes around one side and gets weaved through both the cargo net and the net bag as well as the D-rings. It gets secured to the buckle on the other end. Other side of boat gets the other strap. Passenger can help with one side. Then I run one more strap over the top. Belt and suspenders. And another belt. It's pretty secure, and it's not hard to rig, but it's a LOT longer to secure than an everything bag.
> 
> One of my GC trips a couple friends brought their 16' SOTAR; the rest of the rafts were 16' or 18' NRS boats rented from Ceiba. The couple who brought their own boat had an everything bag. The rest of us just had a lot of straps. My ex would get upset with them because they would be rigged first every day. We could have been just as fast if we had brought an everything bag.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the visual walk through on how you tie it to the raft! 

And, I agree with your zipper thoughts- out here in the SW everything is silt and sand. 

As for your ex, I tell my spouse if you don't like something, do something about it- I'm willing to try out anything at least once. I love their input and value the slim possibility that they actually want to be on this trip as much as myself. God knows, being on a raft with someone pissed at you is no fun!


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## carvedog (May 11, 2005)

BenSlaughter said:


> Your dogs definitely have it better than mine! 😀
> I have a pad for Reuben, and food. I've been contemplating getting him a little tent for inclimate weather, but he's happy to sleep on a pad by my pillow, most nights.
> I quit taking tennis balls after he lost a couple, so it's just driftwood sticks for fetching fodder.
> 20# of food seems excessive. I just portion it out based on days we'll be gone, plus some for contingency. I keep it in a 3 gallon bucket with a gamma seal lid. His bowl gets used to rinse the sand out of my boat in the morning.
> ...


How many coolers do you carry? Three in this pic....not trying to sidetrack just noticing....


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## hysideguy67 (Jul 15, 2021)

carvedog said:


> How many coolers do you carry? Three in this pic....not trying to sidetrack just noticing....


He's never been known to run out of beer 
; )
Best thing the wife and I did was buy a nice rafting trailer w slick deck and roller, so +10 on that. We're fully loaded and strapped from home to put in and the 2 of us can push the pig off. It all came about when we switched up our setup to kitchen dbox, big dbox, and rtic145. We simply couldn't lift the fully loaded 145. Huge marriage & time saver and we don't mind derigging at take out. Of course this assumes back up access at put in and room to store at home


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## hysideguy67 (Jul 15, 2021)

Also, LOSE the straps and get a sling or santa sack for cargo bay!


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## BenSlaughter (Jun 16, 2017)

3 is correct.
125 Icy-tek & 2-54 Igloo Marine's
The Igloos are for beverages only, so the big cooler only gets opened once or twice a day.
It holds ice for a week+ no problem. But the Igloos are only really good for 3+ days. Re-stock ice at The B or Five Mile Bar
Plan is to upgrade them all to homemade foam n fiberglass....maybe this winter.


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## blucat (Apr 30, 2012)

Good luck with that! Probably more common than you think. Also more likely a good reason for your wife to NOT HELP. not sure whose idea that be.


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## riverrat2004 (Jul 8, 2021)

My partner and I can load 15 people’s worth of gear on our 2 boats in 30 mins. There seems to be an issue.


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## carvedog (May 11, 2005)

riverrat2004 said:


> My partner and I can load 15 people’s worth of gear on our 2 boats in 30 mins. There seems to be an issue.


Cool story. I don't want to boat with you, but I would like to see this. It takes me almost that long just to sort my straps out. The pressure would kill me.


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## Smoregon (Aug 14, 2017)

riverrat2004 said:


> My partner and I can load 15 people’s worth of gear on our 2 boats in 30 mins. There seems to be an issue.


I don't doubt it. The rabbits in the big gear boats do it all the time...

My gear pile changes size and shape every month (sometimes more often depending on who is on the trip and how often I can get out) but generally has the same configuration. Day one is the longest, but usually I can hit put in and be on the river in about an hour when I am loading for 4 or 5.


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## TheAlaskan (Aug 9, 2015)

My wife and I back the boat down to the water, I push it off the trailer and place it in the most reasonable open spot out of the way. We then unload all of our prepacked gear and move it in front of our beached boat. I park the truck and come back - then I stand in or at the side of the boat and she hands me gear as I ask for it (nicely). 

When we bring our young kids and dog, my wife will run interference with them while I grab gear off the beach and load myself.

We're usually on the river in about 30-45 minutes* even with kids. The only time it takes longer is when we're with others who aren't such a well oiled machine. But that just gives us time to pop a beer open while we help others.

But this system wasn't developed in one trip. We used to get in arguments because she didn't like being told what to do, but she learned that in rafting sometimes you simply need to do what is being asked. Conversely, I had to learn how to communicate and ask for things in a constructive manner. Fights were as much my fault for being snippy or short out of frustration... it would snowball.

The biggest issue with our ramp routine is probably just my angst trying not to mess up backing up the empty trailer.

Been rafting together for 10+ years, 6 years with our own rafts - we _still_ talk and strategize our ramp routine. We might be especially sensitive to it because we live in the front range and feel the pressure of mountain folk/local guides judging us.


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## peernisse (Jun 1, 2011)

Do you mean rigging at home or daily during the trip? First, rigging at home a couple hours to pack the food and get everything out and into the boat. At the put in I finalize in the parking lot on the trailer then launch the whole shebang spending a couple minutes on the ramp at most. During the trip it takes me about 20 minutes once I have the gear down at the beach. I am often kitchen boat so I often am waiting on the table that covers my drop bag and other kitchen gear. But ultimately yeah 20 minutes. I don’t load shit in my stern, everything has dedicated straps on the frame. I will load my stern if I must, but usually don’t. Cheers.


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## Quiggle (Nov 18, 2012)

45 minutes with a deflated raft, wife and kid in tow. Practice rigging on your yard. If it takes you three hours to rig while you and the mrs argue that would be the last trip we went on together.


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## peernisse (Jun 1, 2011)

My wife and I are both ex river guides and we have just one boat. This has made rigging pretty contentious sometimes haha. So I know where you’re coming from. Our rig is pretty dialed in after many years so everything has its place, and this makes it easier nowadays. If your teenager has a disability and cannot help I understand, but if not, they should be hustling the fuck to help. I would make them lift and carry all the heavy things haha. Hang in there and your system will get smoother the more trips you do. Also, you did not mention whether you have a trailer. If you do not, do. Peace man.


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## peernisse (Jun 1, 2011)

Pine said:


> My goal is to be off the launch ramp in less than three minutes. Everything is pre-loaded and pre-rigged in the boat before it even leaves the garage. Once launched, we might spend 15 minutes topping off the boat and rigging up fishing rods. On my last Middle Fork Trip, at the take out, we had the boat out of the water and tied to the trailer in under 90 seconds. When I finally get my electric winch installed, I think I can get that down to under 60 seconds.


Exactly!


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## mountain boy (Aug 20, 2021)

thegoodpuppies said:


> My spouse and I get into these crazy heated arguments, usually at the launch ramp, about how long it takes to load and unload our raft. And, why rafting is not that relaxing because it takes so much effort to get out on the river or lake. We can't "pre-load" the raft as our utility trailer is not set up for a good dunk and our van is only front wheel drive so if we couldn't get enough traction (wet, muddy or sandy) things would get ugly fast.
> 
> We have a 16ft raft with frame that is decent at accommodating 2 adults, 1 teenager (she watches the pups at the launch- not able to be a physical helper), and 2 medium size (40+ lb) pups- if set up with a "plan". We are desert rats so we freeze easily (aka- large sleeping bags, the tent is a necessity, warm clothes, etc). We tend to hang a lot of dry bags off of the sides (which prevents the dogs from falling out), and strategically set up for pups to walk around a bit. I admit we bring a lot of cargo, but if we didn't 40-60% of the occupants would be too much too deal with. Because we are newer to rafting we also tend to bring our motor with just in case (for winds or injury or when we leave 3 freaking hrs later than anticipated!!), which also requires set up time. We usually go for one to three nights and can't seem to spend less than 2-3 hrs loading the dang raft. At least 90% of the bags, coolers, dry box, etc. are set up prior to the launch ramp so really it is a lot of moving (from inside the raft on the trailer, under the raft, in the van), strapping the bags (we only do Class I-II), and leveling the pup areas. (Call me anal retentive, but I have also made up a diagram of where things should go on the raft so that my spouse and I don't get into another argument and also the raft than is mostly balanced.)
> 
> ...


Buy submersible tailights, I use a 16ft snowmobile trailer with a elevated crank winch stand I had built, get sealed bearings then you can stab that trailer as deep as you want. if you pull out slow without spinning tires front wheel drive shouldn't be a issue. You could actually build two 5ft ribbed plywood tire runs so then you wouldn't spin on sand (always leave them in the rig). Derigging a boat at the ramp sucks, I haven't broke a boat for 25 plus years, boat out of the water in 5-10 minutes, take another 20 minutes to rig for highway up in the turnout and away you go. My wife loves this as everybody is kinda whupped after getting off the river and stripping a boat when it is hot just makes it worse. I've been running a 18ft full gear boat on a trailer for ever. It is nice also at the put-in because the boat is ready to go, stab it in, park the rig for the shuttle folks and get gone. I also leave my boat rigged year around, just load dog, ice, beer, groceries and go. The kitchen, the johnny, sleeping gear, chairs are already rigged for the next trip. If your taking more than 20-30 minutes to jump on or off, rethink how if the boat is rigged fully loaded at home it simplifies getting in and out way faster. Good luck.


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