# Heavy smoke and fire main salmon



## Happy Camper

Idaho Dept. of Environmental Quality is another good source of fire/smoke information. Their Facebook page has a good map showing where the smoke is coming from and where it's going. From today's report: 

Here is your July 8 #smoke forecast.
Several new #fires in the Lewiston area are adding to the existing smoke impacts in central Idaho today. Smoke continues to move into Idaho from fires in Oregon and California. Local fires, like the Dixie Fire, look to be filling the mountain valleys of the Salmon River drainage with smoke. North of #Lewiston should be most free of smoke through Friday.
South Idaho will see increasing smoke throughout the day and into tomorrow morning, though an overnight cold front will help clear the smoke from some of the larger valleys, including the Treasure Valley. Most areas will continue to see light to moderate impacts Friday morning.


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## Specialk

Large portion of the Main's right bank is now closed from Yellow Pine RM 36 to Sheep Creek RM 74 for the Dixie Fire.



https://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/fseprd929797.pdf


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## MT4Runner

Dayum


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## Specialk

MT4Runner said:


> Dayum


Yeah..was planning to put on July 22.


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## codycleve

I would talk to the river rangers. that map shows the river as open on that stretch . is there anything saying camps on that side of the river are in fact closed. anyone with a permit received a notice.. nothing on rec.gov or salmon challis NF site for floating the main salmon.


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## Specialk

codycleve said:


> I would talk to the river rangers. that map shows the river as open on that stretch . is there anything saying camps on that side of the river are in fact closed. anyone with a permit received a notice.. nothing on rec.gov or salmon challis NF site for floating the main salmon.


Yes, left bank maybe open, but does say to " centerline of Salmon River" for right bank. Just came out, so the government wheels may take a bit to process,... have not called rangers yet.

Area Defined within: Commencing at the junction of FS Road 222(also known as the point of beginning) and proceeding S approximately 0.4 miles to the junction with FS Road 468. Then proceeding E 13.6 miles on FS Road 468 until the junction with FS Trail 580. Then proceeding S on FS Trail 580 4.3 miles to the junction with FS Trail 503 at Boston Mountain. Then proceeding S on FS Trail 503 12.5 miles to the junction with FS Trail 96-1. Then proceeding 607 feet bearing S48°5’54.1” to the intersection with the centerline of the Salmon River. Then proceeding SW along the Salmon River to Mackay Bar. Then proceeding NW along the Salmon River to the junction with Sheep Creek and FS Trail 201. Then proceeding N and then E 12.2 miles along FS Trail 201 to the junction with FS Road 233. Then proceeding NW approximately 16 miles along FS Road 233 to the junction with FS Road 311. Then proceeding 9.86 miles bearing N83°37’8.64” to the point of beginning.

The area contained within this closure order contains 258,888 acres more or less

The closed area is shown on the attached map and is closed to all uses.


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## Utah78

Yikes. We have a July 19th launch on the Main Salmon. I will try calling the rangers tomorrow.


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## Pinchecharlie

Even if it's safe it'll be brutal if the smokes thick. I was in the rogue and it was really rrally smokey and it messed people up with allergies and their eyes. Iam not as sensitive and it was still pretty bad. I hope for everyone's sake they somehow contain it. I noticed today our western sky was disappearing into summer smoke haze.fingers crossed!


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## jasonpgoodman

I have a July 14 launch date. The Corn Creek rangers sent the camp assignment email at about 930 last night and said that all camps (both sides of the river) are open. Not sure how that works with the Forest Service closure of the river right side but that's what they said. I emailed back asking if they had heard anything about air quality in the canyon and this was their entire response - "poor and decreasing". I've been around enough fires to know that even if the river is considered otherwise "safe" nobody needs to breathe that for 6 days. I realize our problems as river runners are insignificant compared to the residents and firefighters in the area. Still, I hope the FS will consider this an extenuating circumstance and waive the 3 year penalty, because unless things change significantly we'll end up being a late cancellation.


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## MT4Runner

Specialk said:


> Large portion of the Main's right bank is now closed from Yellow Pine RM 36 to Sheep Creek RM 74 for the Dixie Fire.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/fseprd929797.pdf





Specialk said:


> Yes, left bank maybe open, but does say to " centerline of Salmon River" for right bank. Just came out, so the government wheels may take a bit to process,... have not called rangers yet.
> 
> Area Defined within: Commencing at the junction of FS Road 222(also known as the point of beginning) and proceeding S approximately 0.4 miles to the junction with FS Road 468. Then proceeding E 13.6 miles on FS Road 468 until the junction with FS Trail 580. Then proceeding S on FS Trail 580 4.3 miles to the junction with FS Trail 503 at Boston Mountain. Then proceeding S on FS Trail 503 12.5 miles to the junction with FS Trail 96-1. Then proceeding 607 feet bearing S48°5’54.1” to the intersection with the centerline of the Salmon River. Then proceeding SW along the Salmon River to Mackay Bar. Then proceeding NW along the Salmon River to the junction with Sheep Creek and FS Trail 201. Then proceeding N and then E 12.2 miles along FS Trail 201 to the junction with FS Road 233. Then proceeding NW approximately 16 miles along FS Road 233 to the junction with FS Road 311. Then proceeding 9.86 miles bearing N83°37’8.64” to the point of beginning.
> 
> The area contained within this closure order contains 258,888 acres more or less
> 
> The closed area is shown on the attached map and is closed to all uses.


Map also says "Open: Salmon River".
My interpretation would be that if you planned to hike/backpack the Salmon River trail, you're SOL. If you're boating, you should be GTG.
As others have noted, check in with the Salmon river rangers; if you have a permit, check in with the Corn Creek staff (you have their email).
The FS will be too busy with the fire to write citations, I would say if the river rangers say OK, don't try too hard to find someone else to tell you "no". And if the river rangers say "no", that's it.

And also agree that that much smoke is not good for your lungs, even if you are healthy. Especially when you hit a few good rapids and your heart rate and respiratory rate go up and you're really sucking it in. I too would hope the FS would waive the late cancellation penalty due to fires...they did for the 'rona.

But pretty skies/photo opps!! haha


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## codycleve

I would not expect any improvement or containment.. on the sit report they say expected containment 9/30/21 so pretty much going to burn until the weather changes..


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## codycleve

Also fire is over 11k acres now and containment dropped from 30 something to 17%. I imagine next update will be over 15k acres... they have a type 1 management and I'm familiar with the location... thick thick timber not looking good.


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## Nugs

Does anyone know if the smoke is affecting the Middle Fork canyon as well?

Thanks


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## BlueTurf

I took off the Main Salmon on 7/7/21. The smoke was bad from the 5th on. We did not experience any closures nor did we see any columns of smoke. The current fire map puts the fire much closer to the river now though. Be safe out there.





|


Incidents Page of for the Inciweb site.




inciweb.nwcg.gov


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## cain

We are launching the 19th also. Have to wait and see what happens between now and then. Let's hope for all crews working this fire they stay safe and healthy.


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## cnalder

Just got off today and was camped at Upper Yellowpine on the 5th. We watched the column grow above us and had decent ash fall that evening. Stayed next night at Teepee. Amazingly large column. Anyone going should expect heavy smoke. Stayed clear until today.


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## Electric-Mayhem

Reminds me of my trip in 2017...










We all wore hankerchiefs over our faces and everything smelled like BBQ (including my truck) after the trip. Definitely saw firefighters and some fire next to the river but nothing stopping us from going down the river. I did a trip earlier that year and the section from Black Creek down about 8-10 miles had a bunch of trees on fire right next to the river too.

I just took off the MFS as well and it was noticeable in the air in the straight sections where you could see a ways from the 4th and 5th or so and we really noticed it on the 6th and 7th to a degree where you could smell it in the air. Not bad...but noticeable.

It being Idaho... I think will have to be really serious to shut down the rivers. Whether you wanna go or not is up to you. That 2017 trip was the worst smoke I've encountered...but it wasn't so bad it ruined the trip.


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## BAYUTAH

Ditto 2017 on the main. Hope it improves. We launch 8/30.


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## FatmanZ

In my experience the only way the FS will waive the 3 year penalty for late cancellation is when the road becomes closed due to fire and you're unable to launch. If the road is open it doesn't matter how low the water is or how bad the smoke and fires are, you'll still get nailed if you cancel late.


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## cain

We where on the Main in 2017 also and the ranger that checked us in asked that we not stay at Bargiman camp or the camps right before it because the fire fighters were staying there fighting the fire but told us they couldn't stop us from staying there. When we got there nobody was around and there where tree stumps still burning. The fire had jumped the river there. We ended up camping there and watched the fire burn up the hillside across from us the whole night. It was kinda eerie and the smoke was so thick you could barely see 50 feet up or down the river. Once we got past that area the sky cleared up and was clear as could be.


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## codycleve

This is a great map for where your smoke is coming from and air quality... salmon and the middle forks smoke the last couple days was actually coming from 600 miles away from the bootleg fire in Southern oregon... looks like wind changed and now it's bad from more local fires like Dixie and all the ones around Lewiston. Fire and Smoke Map I was in salt lake yesterday and it was bad but that is coming from California Nevada border


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## Sparks1000

Following.


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## Utah78

Has anybody else taken off in the last day or two? I'd love to get more info if anyone has personal experience. My group launches July 19th and we are still debating whether to cancel or not. We are following as many of these incident sites and air quality sites as possible, but I'd love to hear more info from people who are taking off the river.


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## zoemaster

Nugs said:


> Does anyone know if the smoke is affecting the Middle Fork canyon as well?
> 
> Thanks


Just got off the Middle Fork today and unfortunately the smoke was pretty bad the past few days and getting worse


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## MT4Runner

codycleve said:


> Also fire is over 11k acres now and containment dropped from 30 something to 17%. I imagine next update will be over 15k acres... they have a type 1 management and I'm familiar with the location... thick thick timber not looking good.


If they have a Type 1 team going in, it's serious.


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## Mountainmikey915

Anyone have any info on how bad the smoke is on the main/lower Salmon? Supposed to launch on the 17th, we are on the fence about cancelling. Corn Creek to Shorts Bar. Trying to assess whether the smoke will be bad for the whole trip or just a couple days. Any experience or info appreciated!


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## cnalder

Both Salmon and McCalls AQIs are over 150 this morning. Also given the Dixie fire is backing to the river, it’s at about river mile 40 from Corn Cr, expect smoke. They are forecasting more extreme heat this weekend and next week, so plan on it to be plenty smoky.


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## codycleve

There is a new fire up panther creek that is directly west of salmon.. panther creek is the other main drainage that comes in from the left before the middle fork. it is over 5k acres now, between that the dixie fire and the snake river complex down by lewiston you will have bad smoke the whole way.


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## MT4Runner

Where's that Snake River complex...down by Asotin? On the river?

We just got off the Main/Lower/Snake on 6/29. Crazy to realize it's blown up so much in only 2 weeks.


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## Specialk

MT4Runner said:


> Where's that Snake River complex...down by Asotin? On the river?
> 
> We just got off the Main/Lower/Snake on 6/29. Crazy to realize it's blown up so much in only 2 weeks.


Pretty much the entire peninsula of the Snake / Lower Salmon confluence to the north. As well as large fires to the west of Asotin.


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## MT4Runner

Dayum. It sure is dry down there.


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## Pinchecharlie

It's about to be bad here as well. My buddy who lives above alberton sent me pictures of all the fires near him and its not looking good. Had my daughters in a kid raft camp on gorge that just got canceled due to smoke and potential fire danger. Bummer


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## Utah78

I talked to the office in Salmon (or Challis?) this morning to get more info (208-879-4100). The lady there was helpful. Here is a summary of what she said; however, since I am not an authority please confirm information for yourself where you feel necessary:

1. She said they will not close the river. To me, it sounds like this is a decision based on them just thinking the river should stay open, rather than that they think things won't get any worse. It is possible that changes if the fire gets to the access roads for the takeout or put-in. But the lady said they will not close the river.
2. check in with the rangers at Corn Creek and they will make sure that we don't get assigned a campsite that is on fire.
3. The fire did jump the river, so there may be fire on both sides as you float down. She said this was around Mackay Bar (mile 56-ish?). 
4. said there will be no penalty of any kind and we can get a refund. We should cancel at least 1 day in advance if we do.
5. There will be no rollovers until next year no matter what.
6. The ranger said "it will be fun but smokey. Better than going to work"
7. I asked more about the smoke. She did say that is can get pretty bad, but didn't give any further details worth noting.

My biggest worry is the smoke. If its a bit smokey that's one thing, but if its severe, that will make for a bad trip with potential health consequences, especially for those with asthma and other breathing issues (make sure you don't go into the backcountry with a case of COVID, but especially during fire/smoke season).


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## Specialk

From Dixie Fire Update @ 1000 PDT today: 

Salmon River “Keep on Floating” Order 
Effective today, recreators on the Salmon River are asked to stop at Whitewater Ranch to obtain information about the fire and receive a safety briefing. Between Whitewater Ranch and Jim Moore Campsite, floaters are directed not to stop or camp on either side of the river in order to avoid fire activity and firefighting operations. The Jim Moore Campsite is included in the no-stopping area, please move past it to clear the restricted area.

Dixie Fire Update- July, 13, 2021 - InciWeb the Incident Information System (nwcg.gov)


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## codycleve

Just a heads up. They are setting up an incident command post for the Mudlick fire here in salmon. That means a whole lot of extra fire fighters and overhead. firefighters are generally tented up but overhead can take up a lot of hotel space depending on team and overhead. So make sure if you are planning on a hotel you have it lined out well ahead of time. i'm not sure how they are accessing the fire. They may be going down the salmon river Rd and going up panther creek or up and over Williams creek summit and down into panther creek.. I have been on fires in the past where one route is takin to get to the fire and one route is to come back to mitigate oncoming traffic.


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## Utah78

Utah78 said:


> I talked to the office in Salmon (or Challis?) this morning to get more info (208-879-4100). The lady there was helpful. Here is a summary of what she said; however, since I am not an authority please confirm information for yourself where you feel necessary:
> 
> 1. She said they will not close the river. To me, it sounds like this is a decision based on them just thinking the river should stay open, rather than that they think things won't get any worse. It is possible that changes if the fire gets to the access roads for the takeout or put-in. But the lady said they will not close the river.
> 2. check in with the rangers at Corn Creek and they will make sure that we don't get assigned a campsite that is on fire.
> 3. The fire did jump the river, so there may be fire on both sides as you float down. She said this was around Mackay Bar (mile 56-ish?).
> 4. said there will be no penalty of any kind and we can get a refund. We should cancel at least 1 day in advance if we do.
> 5. There will be no rollovers until next year no matter what.
> 6. The ranger said "it will be fun but smokey. Better than going to work"
> 7. I asked more about the smoke. She did say that is can get pretty bad, but didn't give any further details worth noting.
> 
> My biggest worry is the smoke. If its a bit smokey that's one thing, but if its severe, that will make for a bad trip with potential health consequences, especially for those with asthma and other breathing issues (make sure you don't go into the backcountry with a case of COVID, but especially during fire/smoke season).


I want to make one revision to my statement above. I am not sure about where the fire jumped the river. The lady on the phone said by Mackay Bar, so I even asked her if she was sure and she said yes. But it still doesn't sound right or align with the fire maps, so I don't think that is correct. I just wanted to amend that because I am really uncertain about that.


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## cnalder

Utah78 said:


> I want to make one revision to my statement above. I am not sure about where the fire jumped the river. The lady on the phone said by Mackay Bar, so I even asked her if she was sure and she said yes. But it still doesn't sound right or align with the fire maps, so I don't think that is correct. I just wanted to amend that because I am really uncertain about that.


The IR flight done at midnight last night showed it still on the north side of the river. If it does jump to the south side, the uphill run will be impressive with lots of additional smoke. Mackey Bar seams to be a ways downstream from the fire.


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## codycleve

I wonder if the meant at Campbells ferry. all around Campbells ferry was on fire in I believe 2015, we camped at groundhog and watched the fire racing up the opposite side of the river.


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## cnalder

Check here for the latest mapping. The IR flight is done at night and it maps heat so you can tell exact location of the fire. Index of /public/incident_specific_data/n_rockies/2021_fires/2021_Dixie (wildfire.gov)


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## MT4Runner

codycleve said:


> I wonder if the meant at Campbells ferry. all around Campbells ferry was on fire in I believe 2015, we camped at groundhog and watched the fire racing up the opposite side of the river.


Definitely looks like it:


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## suhlmann

I talked to the ranger earlier today. She said the river is open but you have to stop at the Whitewater Ranch Ranger Station before going to Corn Creek and she said that you have to "float through" the Jim Moore camp site as both banks/camping is closed there. She also said that there's no penalty for cancellations because of the fire.


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## Easy Tiger

We just got off the Main today. The smoke was, well, bad…


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## MT4Runner

That's beautiful light. Also nasty.

But fire is also a necessity for a healthy forest ecology. Still, I hope it doesn't char everything down to dust and glass--which isn't all that healthy.


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## Utah78

We decided to cancel our trip due to the smoke and some health concerns. Good luck to everyone who goes, stay safe, and have fun.


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## cnalder

Just talked to Mackey Bar Guest Ranch about a different trip. They said they haven’t been able to see across the river several mornings. They say smoke is thick.


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## codycleve

Just confirmed that hotel rooms in Salmon are very hard to come by with fire personnel being in town. Thought I would give a heads up.


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## Specialk

Canceled our 7/22 launch. Good luck!


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## Specialk

Specialk said:


> Canceled our 7/22 launch. Good luck!


...and its gone already!


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## FatmanZ

Is anyone else skeptical of the #4 statement - no penalty for last minute cancellation under the specified window? I've only heard of that once access to the river is closed preventing launch.


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## BlueTurf

I'm not skeptical at all. Last minute cancellations, and even transfers, of permits are always allowed for medical reasons. I've been on a trip were that happened. Really poor air quality seems medical to me. I have also personally cancelled a Selway trip 2 days before launch because the water was too high. No penalty. 

I'd take the rangers at their word. If you are really worried try to get it in writing (email) from the rangers. I would not give it a second thought.


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## Specialk

Got full refund minus some fees. No mention of 3 year ban.


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## carvedog

The Flying B webcams might help to gauge the amount of smoke on the Middle Fork and close to the Main.



Live WebCam – Flying Resort Ranches


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## suhlmann

There's now a Facebook page for the Dixie-Jumbo Fires with updates/info: https://www.facebook.com/search/top?q=dixie jumbo fire


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## athelake

Today's Dixie Fire update.

I have started the video at 7:25 for Salmon River info.

<iframe src="Facebook" width="560" height="429" style="border:none;overflow:hidden" scrolling="no" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen="true" allow="autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; picture-in-picture; web-share" allowFullScreen="true"></iframe>


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## Kirby

Any new updates on the smoke? Launching the 25th.


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## cain

We are launching on the 19th and the Ranger as of yesterday said the river is still open but there is about 4 or 5 miles that are a no stop zone. MM39 to 42 right now. The incident website is also calling for some wind change and the fire will continue to move both up and down the river corridor in that area. Smoke is really heavy from what I have heard with visibility in the several 100' range in areas. Waiting for todays update for the incident command center. Hard to believe the fire hasn't jumped the river yet in that area. God bless and stay safe to all fighting this fire.


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## Conundrum

Am I the only one who thinks it's a little silly to continue to ask here for smoke and fire conditions instead of calling the ranger, whoever you have your shuttle scheduled with, or inciweb for the respective local river/forest knowledge if you have a launch coming up in the next couple weeks? The boaters with first hand knowledge don't have internet right now because they're there having first hand knowledge. By the time they get to the internet, the weather and fires could have changed. USFS doesn't usually plan fire road and river closures out more than a couple days. Much less more than a week.

If you're worried about air quality, just plan on that piece sucking for at least the next month or so.

I know that having a river trip coming up is exciting and occupies a lot of your mind the weeks prior...it's happening to me right now. If people just want to make chit chat, disregard my comments above.


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## MT4Runner

I can understand the desire to have frequent updates without wanting to bug the FS staff staff yourself twice a week


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## Conundrum

Me too but what is happening right now will be different on a launch 10 days from now. I get it though...I'm anxious as shit for a 7/24 MFS launch. I've probably looked at my gear pile 20 times in the last few days figuring out how to cut weight even though I've got a number of low water MFS trips in the can. Maybe I was a little harsh.


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## MT4Runner

Conundrum said:


> I've probably looked at my gear pile 20 times in the last few days figuring out how to cut weight even though I've got a number of low water MFS trips in the can.


I've never done a low water MFS, but you all keep talking about it. I'm intrigued! haha


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## Conundrum

It's like a medium or high flow MFS except you need to bring good shoes.


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## codycleve

I can post a daily picture from my deck in salmon... today is the clearest day in a while... we had a crazy lightning storm last night but did come with some rain... I know they have already had 4 or five new fires out of it but believe they caught them small. I expect more to pop up. the fire by lookout pass closed 42 for a while but it's back open. This is the road from the bighole Valley people coming from eastern montana should be aware it could close again.. gibbonsville is on evacuation standby... if you are familiar with ready, set, go. They are at ready. Keep an eye on this as it could close 93 north of salmon if thing go wrong.. The fire by panther creek is still growing.. they closed panther creek rd... they have heavy logging equipment making a contingency line on the ridge road. Which is the ridge above salmon. That's a long ways from the fire... all these fires are going to take a season ending event aka snow. Current Pic just taken.. it will change tomorrow.


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## codycleve

It's time to talk about the monsoon


As we approach the middle to the latter part of July, monsoon flows are almost expected across the Great Basin and Rockies. This is moisture that moves in from the Gulf of Mexico courtesy of the clockwise spinning high pressure that develops over the four corners region. This sub-tropical surge...




www.google.com





This might explain our recent thunderstorms and the smoke being pushed out of salmon today. If you look at the current smoke map "picture attached " you can see that same system pushing the smoke north. It will still setttle in the canyon at night.


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## suhlmann

Just got this as an email from Rec.gov:

Attention Main Salmon Launch Permit holders: 

We wanted to inform you there are* two fires in the Salmon River Corridor on the Nez Perce – Clearwater National Forest*. Firefighting resources are actively engaged in suppression operations on the Dixie and Jumbo fires; as of 7/15/21 the *Dixie Fire is at 23,706 acres* and the Jumbo Fire is at 1,244 acres. At this time the river remains open to boating and boaters will need to stop on river right at Whitewater Ranch (near river mile 39) for an additional briefing with updates about the fire and camping situation; certain camps or sections of river in the vicinity of the fire may be unavailable and these locations may change on a daily basis.

*Keep up with smoke/air quality updates and find current Dixie and Jumbo fire information here:*

Idaho DEQ Air Quality: airquality.deq.idaho.gov 

Weather and Smoke: Fire and Smoke Map 

Fire Information Email: [email protected] 

Fire Information Facebook: @DixieJumboFire 

Fire Information Twitter: @NPClwNFs 

InciWeb: Dixie-Jumbo Fires Information - InciWeb the Incident Information System 

*Key points to remember:*


Understand that this is an evolving and constantly changing situation.
Sections of river may be unavailable to camping. Groups may need to prepare to share camps, be courteous with other groups, and get creative with finding and utilizing the unnamed dispersed camps within the corridor. There are many unidentified camps.
Bring extra food and water.
Fire may occur on either side of the river.
*Fire situations and river management could change at any time. *As groups arrive to the Corn Creek launch site, river checkers will advise on the current situation.
*Things to know before you go:*


Expect rapidly changing conditions, including erratic winds that rapidly spread fire.
Fire can travel quickly. Check the current fire situation before your launch and heed safety warnings: Dixie-Jumbo Fires Information - InciWeb the Incident Information System.
Access points such as airstrips and roads may have closures.
Campsites may present hazards. Do not camp under or near burning or burned trees/limbs.
Smoky conditions may decrease visibility and disable aircraft and satellite service.
If encountering fire, assess whether to eddy out or float through on the opposite side of the river.
Watch for rolling, falling, or floating debris such as rocks and burned/burning trees and areas that may have burned underground and are therefore hollow. Stay clear of active fire suppression operations and crews.
Helicopters may be working in the area and dipping from water sources.
Be aware of heavy vehicles and increased traffic due to fire support vehicles when driving to/from launch and take-out sites.
There is increased risk of flash flooding.
For permit questions please contact the Corn Creek River Checkers at [email protected].

Thank you for your patience,

Wilderness & River Program

Salmon – Challis National Forest


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## cnalder

Conditions mid last week.


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## suhlmann

*Salmon River Boater Advisory*
Dixie-Jumbo Fires Wildfire
Announcements – 6 hrs. ago
from inciweb:

*ATTENTION*
SALMON RIVER BOATERS
*Active Fire from Whitewater Ranch
to Mackay Bar *

The “Keep on Floating Order has been lifted between Whitewater Ranch and Jim Moore Place on the main Salmon River; however, the Dixie Fire remains active on the north side of the river from Allison Ranch to potentially Mackay Bar. Boaters are directed to STOP at Allison Ranch for additional briefing and updates on the fire situation.



Active fire is on the north side of the river from Allison Ranch to potentially Mackay Bar.
*Fire danger is very high, and firefighting activities are in progress.*
*STOP* at Allison Ranch for additional briefing and updates on the fire situation.
Designated camping areas along the river are *open for camping*;however, fire may occur on either side of the river.
Be alert for rolling, flaming debris in river canyon slopes.
Be advised that the current fire situation is an evolving and ever-changing situation.


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## codycleve

They are evacuating residents of lower panther creek due to Mudlick fire... panther runs into the main on your way to corn creek... we have a few new fires that it looks like they are not going to catch.. resources have been diverted from some of the larger incidents to try and contain new starts. Things are not going well on the home front. It's easy to get tunnel vision on the Dixie fire but there are other players in the game.


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## oarframe

The picture above says it all...
Just off the main today. Real Smoky from mallard to past 5mile bar. Had a 20 mile day to get below the closure. Jim Moore camp was our stop, but it was on fire. Smoke and haze all the way to carey crk. Be safe out there.


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## Poky

Mackay Bar Sunday


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## Acullwick

cnalder said:


> Conditions mid last week.
> View attachment 68193


When you were. On the Main was it consistently this Smokey? Trying to figure out if we launch on July 31???


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## cowboyclay

Poky said:


> Mackay Bar Sunday
> View attachment 68257


That looks miserable!


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## cnalder

Acullwick said:


> When you were. On the Main was it consistently this Smokey? Trying to figure out if we launch on July 31???


I was not on this trip, I was lucky enough to go the week before while things were still clear. I’ll ask my friends to see but looks like there are some others with first hand knowledge. Probably depends on jet stream and winds.

I’m out of McCall, and even with no fires nearby, it’s been real smoky since July 9th. Probably the same for Salmon. 

Expect some level of smoke until October, so think about whether to cancel.


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## carvedog

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Sawtooth Camera: Live webcam from Stanley, Idaho. Views of the Sawtooth Mountain Range.






sawtoothcamera.com







Live WebCam – Flying Resort Ranches


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## Pinchecharlie

It honestly doesn't look that much better here in bozeman and there's not to many close fires.


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## MT4Runner

Similar up in Kalispell..not consistently bad, but it comes and goes, sky hasn't been really blue in 8-10 days.


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## LSB

It's been pretty nasty on the Clark Fork lately. It'll be nice to get out of it next week for a while.


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## codycleve

we are currently doing pretty good in Salmon as a high pressure system has been moving right over the top of us forcing the smoke out.. Not sure how long it will last but for my sanity I hope it's for a while. It's good to see the mountains.


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## treewell

Acullwick said:


> When you were. On the Main was it consistently this Smokey? Trying to figure out if we launch on July 31???


We took off at Carey Creek 7/17. Middle of day 3 the smoke became heavy enough to sting the eyes. Camp was on fire as went by and fire fighters directed us to Gaines Bar for a 26 mile day. Only light smoke when we arrived. Then we could see dense plumes rising from back side of canyon ridge pushed up by wind. Then fire on top of ridge. Then fire at moved down toward us as air cooled and sank. Then it petered out still 1500+ feet above camp in area with little vegetation. Smoke that night was strong as it rolled down the ridge and down the river overall. Got up early and found fire fighters near camp running sprinklers to protect a few historic structures. As we left they were starting back fires. That was the worst of smoke. Remaining days were smoky in morning and increasingly clear in afternoons. All in all a good trip at historic low water levels.

July 31 is a ways off so you'll have plenty of time to evaluate. Not sure I'd drive 16 hours knowing in advance how smoky it would be. But once at the put in there was no discussion of bailing out. Never felt in any danger of fire itself. Smoke wasn't bad enough for long enough to be a health hazard.


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## codycleve

SCAT machine in Riggins is down. Sounds like power surges from the lightning storms knocked out the electrical. So hopefully not down for long.


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## cupido76

codycleve said:


> This is a great map for where your smoke is coming from and air quality... salmon and the middle forks smoke the last couple days was actually coming from 600 miles away from the bootleg fire in Southern oregon... looks like wind changed and now it's bad from more local fires like Dixie and all the ones around Lewiston. Fire and Smoke Map I was in salt lake yesterday and it was bad but that is coming from California Nevada border


I mean zero offense but that map is lacking. It shows a few fires up here in Canada but without a link to back it up you will have to trust me that there are WAY more fires up here than that map shows.... and they are almost certainly affecting the air quality below the 49th as well.

For context, there are no fires anywhere near me in calgary alberta right now, but the air quality warning a few days ago was at 10 out of 11 on our scale.

This problem has legs.


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## MT4Runner

cupido76 said:


> I mean zero offense but that map is lacking. It shows a few fires up here in Canada but without a link to back it up you will have to trust me that there are WAY more fires up here than that map shows.... and they are almost certainly affecting the air quality below the 49th as well.
> 
> For context, there are no fires anywhere near me in calgary alberta right now, but the air quality warning a few days ago was at 10 out of 11 on our scale.
> 
> This problem has legs.


I've seen past maps that seem to stop at the 49th. The problem doesn't stop there, but the data breaks there.

Only in Canada do the numbers all go up to 11


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## KDP

Has anyone heard what the most recent situation is on the Middle Fork Salmon? My trip starts this Friday, 7/30. Would greatly appreciate any reports or anecdotes from anyone recently up from the river, since this is my first trip.


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## JGee

Just got back, July 19 launch July 23 take out. Smoke was minimal. One red sunrise on July 21 but otherwise no issues. This photo was as bad as it got after smoke settled in the valley overnight. Back burning fires were smoldering across the river from camp. This was Mann Camp iirc.


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## KDP

Thanks so much for your response and the photo glimpse. It's encouraging to see the beauty of the river.



JGee said:


> Just got back, July 19 launch July 23 take out. Smoke was minimal. One red sunrise on July 21 but otherwise no issues. This photo was as bad as it got after smoke settled in the valley overnight. Back burning fires were smoldering across the river from camp. This was Mann Camp iirc.
> View attachment 68579


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## jscs

any recent boaters on main salmon?? smoke/visibility?


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## cain

Just got off Saturday. Really Smokey most the river. Cleared up at times and sank back in. Watched a wild ass forest fire burning really close to us one night. (Amazing). The fire was growing again when we took off. Don't know what the status is now but it was still worth floating the Main. The post above was one day ahead of us so he may have missed what rolled in one day behind him. I would keep up on the daily reports. At times you could barely see our other rafts in front of us at about 100'.


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## Earpster

We got off Tuesday. It changes day to day. For the most part the smoke wasn’t too bad except for through the burn area around Day 3 for us was super Smokey. We had to camp in an area that was recently burned and the smoke was still bad. You could see hot spots all over the hills at night still burning. But by the time we got further west we had a really nice clear day, then it settled in again each morning and would kinda clear out in the afternoons if the westerly winds picked up.


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## jscs

thanks for update!


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## codycleve

Great.. flash flood watch through Monday be careful out there.. if you know anyone going on or on the river give them a heads up.. 1 to 1.5 inch per hour slow moving storms..


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## Dangerfield

codycleve said:


> Great.. flash flood watch through Monday be careful out there.. if you know anyone going on or on the river give them a heads up.. 1 to 1.5 inch per hour slow moving storms..


This is probably important enough to have it's own thread so folk can be aware. I zero'd in on MF/Boundary and the forecast is basically the same.


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## codycleve

Done


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## codycleve

Land slide blocking salmon river road


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## Pinchecharlie

Does this mean that shuttle routes are blocked? Sorry I've never been and am going end of August. Thanks


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## codycleve

As of now yes.. you can't get to corn creek. Via car. Could add a day and float it... should be cleaned up by your launch.


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## Pinchecharlie

Thank you!


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## codycleve

Looks like it's been opened


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## Pinchecharlie

Is the rain helping you guys with smoke and fire? It's been raining hard here. Just curious as it's been so bad for you guys


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## Kirby

Got off Saturday, smoke wasn't bad at river level. At Bruin camp the smoke was thick but cleared out by the time we left camp. That was the worst for us on the trip. Kind of crazy seeing spot fires at night at Easter Egg and trees and logs still on fire.


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## H2oskierjb

Got off Main trip yesterday, (Monday Aug 2nd) unless you have extremely high sensitivity to smoke (e.g..being outside anywhere in the west smoke already affects you) I wouldn't now have the worry of smoke keep you from a trip. 

We had 2 days where the smoke was pretty noticeable, only time it was a real bother was Groundhog camp where it was still actively burning right behind camp (we were safe, large beach, firemen had cut down fire cored out trees already) wife felt a little nauseous, we wore a kn95 masks I took for good measure that night as we slept, and it helped and we were fine.

Understanding there are differing levels of sensitivity, for most folks I think you'll be ok now (though it is a changing situation / and can be variable).

Suggest taking a mask and some saline solution for eyes as a prudent precaution, but for most folks it shouldn't now preclude a trip as may have in days earlier in my opinion.

Was interesting at the one section we went by that had an active fire how the interior of the trees can burn out, photo below.


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## Conundrum

Got off MFS last Friday. Top half was blue skies and starry nights. Started to get a haze around Marble. Not terrible. Actually nice to keep the sun off a little. Only smelled smoke a couple times. It did get a little thicker as we got closer to the confluence but nothing even close to keep a trip from happening. Can't comment on the main though. Between low water and the potential for smoke, I think a number of groups bailed. Was nice to see less people on the river. Only ran into one, one boat, private before Indian. Outfitters were dead heading so not much traffic there either.


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## codycleve

The last 2 days have been the clearest we have had... storms pushed it out... however all the blowouts reached salmon... river is a brown as I have ever seen it. Looks like sludge.


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## Conundrum

If that chocolate milk is on the MFS, those lower water trips are going to be tricky. Assuming same trib blowouts there too.


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## MT4Runner

That's in town in Salmon city, but it wouldn't surprise me if the MFS had similar conditions.


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## Pinchecharlie

Will it be full of debris is the worry?


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## MT4Runner

Harder to see the really skinny spots!


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## Dangerfield

The MF has seen a bump up.


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## Conundrum

Well, the fishing trips are f'd.


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## Conundrum

Pinchecharlie said:


> Will it be full of debris is the worry?


Could be. A lot of larger trees already leaning from the banks that might tip with that much water at once plus the stuff in the tributaries that didn't flush in the spring coming down. No way to know til you're there.



MT4Runner said:


> Harder to see the really skinny spots!


Yep. Hard to see the lurker rocks and really hard to jump off the boat to push off the rock you're stuck on when you can see how deep the water is or what you're stuck on. That is, if you get stuck.


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## Pinchecharlie

Yeah didn't think about those two things!


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## codycleve

I think most of the mud came from a blowout at Malm Gulch in challis.. It's typically a dry wash, it turned into a raging torrent there was a facebook video but i cant seem to find it.. I would suspect it didnt add much wood. if you look at malm gulch, challis idaho it's pretty much desert.


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## Pinchecharlie

Ok humor me.. what's a intelligent guy do if he's on the river with no way out but down and an event like this happens but extreme with lots of debris.iam seriously asking.


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## Dangerfield

Personaly, I would not risk any lives by trying to make a scheduled camp or other timeline. If I were to come upon a sidestream with an obvious blow out I would proceed with caution below with good look outs on the lead raft. Any blind corner need to be respected and scouting should be considered, hand signals and other communication a must. A emergency electronic device (if available) could send information on log jams and the appropriate agency might/could send assistance. Case in point a blowout of Lake Creek (MF) that blocked Pistol Creek Rapids years back that had to be blasted out by the Forest Service.


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## Conundrum

Boat scout anything you can see from the river with time to safely pull over and bank scout what you can't. If something is impassable, portage or wait for an outfitter to show up. MFS and Main will have plenty of commercial trips with head guides that will know what to do next.

Don't rush and don't boat above your ability. Private river trips rules-1. survive 2. be comfortable 3. have fun. Comfort is subjective when seeking type 2, 3, and 4 fun.


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## jrice345

Anyone know if the canyon is smoked in again? We're debating our launch on 8/18.


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## codycleve

Salmon has been pretty clear the last 5 days.. supposed get heavy rain again Friday Saturday


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## idahoriversrat

Are there any updates from any of the latest trip goers? Hopefully, the conditions are improving. Thanks in advance.


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## codycleve

Salmon is good.. I'm going up to cut firewood. From where I'm at I can see from the crags to the gospel hump. I will send a Pic from up top.


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## MT4Runner

Did you get the biblical monsoon rains we had over here on Sun/Mon?


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## codycleve

They closed the road with the better view on me this morning. I had to go somewhere else this is looking northwest from above salmon. But as you can see you can see forever... you can see blackbird mine and there is 20,000 fire right by it. Looking good.


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## codycleve

Not in salmon we have had about half an inch.. I went and visited a friend in challis and he got hit hard... attached is a picture of a hillside that pretty much looks like it got plowed... his little creek came up 4 feet.. will post a picture of the water line, don't mind the rugrats. River is still brown.


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## paor

WELL, I posted my message BEFORE seeing the post about the new fire near Boundary. So, all of my thoughts might not mean anything at this point. 


I just finished the Middle Fork and the skies were smoke free. Water is clear until around Marble and then it clouds up a bit (not enough to clog water filters or anything). There were plenty of sweep boats still making the trip last week.

The Main water was very cloudy, but the skies were clear at the put in.


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