# running safety at Super Collider - Upper Narrows Poudre



## Caspian (Oct 14, 2003)

Glad things turned out good for your group. I think it's important to note however that there are serious dangers in throwing a rope to someone who is or is about to get surfed: disclocated shoulders, choking and broken necks are very real possibilities. Make your own call, but if I'm in a hole don't throw a rope at me unless I call for it or am out of my boat. 

TIFWIW...


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## 217 (Oct 27, 2003)

agreed!!


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## adrock (Apr 28, 2004)

*rope*

He called for the rope toss, we made eye contact, we were on the same page. No shit there are dangers with ropes. There are dangers with running CV period. But if you are trained in using them and make a good throw, you can avert a more dangerous situation. 

I would say however, if you havent practiced using ropes then dont fucking use one in a rescue situation.

Have you run Super Collider?

If you havent, or dont plan to, please dont post anything on this thread.

I dont want this situation to be taken out of context into another what if? You could have... blah blah blah, 

Maby a breathing device would have been the way to go. I could have thrown him one and he could have used as he was surfing the hole and while he bounced down the rebar ridden right side.

This post is meant specifically for paddlers familiar with this drop.


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## latenightjoneser (Feb 6, 2004)

please submit kayaking resume prior to posting. . .


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## adrock (Apr 28, 2004)

*posting*

either that or pull head from ass before posting :twisted:


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## JJH (Oct 14, 2003)

Adrian,
Why do I feel like you and I are the only ones working right now. Everyone else is running Spencers.
I am sure our group could have used that technique the other night, if only one of us would have been on shore, not in our boats. We had a long hole ride the other night and a painful but short swim, because of Marty's rockstar skills on getting the swimmer out so damn quick. You are right, it is an easy toss and an easy way to avoid a major problem and nasty ass swim.


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## 217 (Oct 27, 2003)

adrian is an angry little guy. let me guess 5'4"?


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## adrock (Apr 28, 2004)

*work sucks*

My head is in spencers... I'm sure yours is too. Session at BTO at 5. I'll drive. Cold beer in van.


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## adrock (Apr 28, 2004)

*5 10 bitch*

dont worry, I'll let you swim. double aassss.


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## adrock (Apr 28, 2004)

*angst*

Sorry for the angst guys, I'm a little bit emotional right now. I think I'm getting my period. No but really, that whole rescue last week is up in my wheel house right now (as Todd G. would say), spinning and spinning. 

I guess I just got pist that people were taking my post out of context and putting a negative spin on it. 

I should have been more descriptive about the communication that happened with the paddler and I.

BUT, it seems like people chime in without enough context.

I'm getting my head out of this thread.

PEACE, be safe in the narrows.


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## 217 (Oct 27, 2003)

5'10" is sure gettin up there. maybe just short in stature?  dont let someones comments hit you in the heart. didnt your mom teach you to have thick skin....haha
it was a good warning and i'm sure his comments about rope throws werent directed at you but maybe at one of the newbies on the forum. chill/smoke a bowl relax 8)


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## Caspian (Oct 14, 2003)

Adrian - like I said, glad it worked out great for your group. I never said YOUR group's decision was bad. I pointed out the general dangers of which many people who read your post won't be aware.

I've never run Super Collider and I'm posting because lots of people will read your thread and some are going to get the idea that throwing a rope to someone getting surfed is a good idea, period. There has been a noticable spike in posts from newbies and class II-III boaters in the last couple months, people without the experience you, me, Aaron and many others of us have.

latenightjonser -- resume..."put it on the buzz"...lol


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## adrock (Apr 28, 2004)

*resume*

Oh, hey before I check out. Forgot to post my resume.

May 2005-
Slept with double-a-ron's mom (she taught me lots of lessons and made me feel dirty about my stature)

Just kiddin buddy

take er easy

relax is my middle name


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## 217 (Oct 27, 2003)

haha


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## 217 (Oct 27, 2003)

did you need a rope to get out of that hole?


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## medman (Mar 10, 2004)

Sorry I'm not a class V boater and I have not run that drop but I have something to say to adrianmatthew and all those involved in the rescue. I know there was an MD involved and I don't knwo what field he's in and hwo many "holy &*%$" type situations he faces but I hope you guys talked about moving on with your lives after this. I know, easier said than done, but it has to be done or it will eat at you for a long time as is readily seen in this post. Sorry, but I'm just observing and only with the best of intentions from someone who does have to deal with those kinds of situations regularly.


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## adrock (Apr 28, 2004)

*change is the only constant*

Hey medman. I appreciate your intentions, however, I dont feel like its really about moving on, but rather, working through. I will not repress or forget this (the Ryan rescue) for quite some time and I am glad. The experience has changed me, for the better and we are all dealing the best way we know how. By the way, take 2 vikadin for trying to be my counselor.

If I hadnt been involved with the rescue I would not have run safety at Super C the other day and homeboy would have had a gnarly barefoot swim (I offered him shoes, but people make their own choices).

Bam, already I am more safety conscious and ready to assist people at a higher level.

Caspian, I appreciate your concern for novice boaters but I think you framed your response to me in bad form. You made it sound like "well you guys may have gotten lucky but don't throw me a flippin rope dumbass".

A-ron, if you drop in to Super C (hole) right now you will not come out in your boat.

All I was trying to do with this postwas say "hey you might want to get someone on shore with a rope when you run Super C", I think novice boaters are smarter than to generalize about every situation from my single post. We were all there at one point right?

JJ lets go boating give me a call.

By the way A-ron, I have never felt higher in stature, having just helped save someones life.


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## medman (Mar 10, 2004)

Don't misunderstand me--I'm not saying to repress anything, I'm actually sayng the opposite. We have similar conferences in medicine where we get together adn discuss what we could have done better so that we learn for the next time. 
I was just saying don't let it eat at you foreverto the point where you become overly cynical. Not trying to be a counselor--in fact I'm in a field that most would consider farthest from it. 
Not quite sure what you meant by the 2 Vicodin comment though.
Peace.


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## 217 (Oct 27, 2003)

i meant did you need a rope to get out of my mom's hole....quick joke..haha


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## adrock (Apr 28, 2004)

*deep*

sorry dude, I totally missed it. The answer is no, Your mom's hole is clean and deep and it flushes on the right side. I did surf it for a while though. 

Happy Friday everyone, get the fuck off the internet!!!
I'm going boating.


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## adrock (Apr 28, 2004)

*vics*

medman, I smell what you're steppin in, no worries, thanks for giving a shit. I am am optirealist to the end. I was just kidding with the vicodin comment.


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## dzader (Apr 22, 2004)

*Throw ropes to holes*

Just a comment on throwing ropes into holes, If you are planning to throw a rope into a hole it is best to throw just enought to reach, This prevents many of the hazards associated with entanglement. It is definitely harder to throw just the right amount and quickly. If you are setting safety for a know hazard, its a good idea to throw your rope and recoil it or restuff it throw ropes have a tendency to become tangled over time. its also a great way to to figure out how much rope yoy need, and a good habitat so that you become proficent. I know that most people in colorado use throw bags exculsively. I tend to carry a nice fat laid (twisted) polypropelene coil rope that I use exculesively for setting safety. I safe that little throw bag for when I am running down the shore. The big fat rope tends to throw better and it is easier to recoil once its thrown also you can throw it to two poeple at once and you can even snag an unconcious person. just one mans opinion

Dave Zader
Swiftwater Rescue Instructor
Former Chattooga section IV river guide
Fort Collins resident (thought I had better post a resume)


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## rasdoggy (Jan 31, 2005)

I am part of that spike of newbies your refering to, That is why a couple of us started the Yahoo site, http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Coloradokayakers/

As a watcher of the videos and the people in the playparks you C/V level boaters make it look way to eazy for some of the "Newbies" out here that don't know the power of moving water...

Keep up the postings about the places where I SHOULDN'T be paddling yet and posting the stories that go along with the problems that happen there, the best way to learn is from someone else's experiences, one of these days I hope to be able to meet/paddle with some of you till then it's Deckers for me!!! 

And remember without the Newbies the kayak instructors wouldn't be needed, and you wouldn't have anyone to laugh at while sitting in the playline at Golden :lol:


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## mike a (Dec 16, 2003)

Dzader,

I agree. It is important to minimize the amount of rope provided. You could often find a member of our party with the proper amount of rope ready at a hole such as that at SC, Rigor, Gambler, etc. If you hit someone with a 60' throw bag from 10' it won't do much good, and has potentially more danger to donate to the situation than safety. When we set safety, we often will pull out the 10' or 20' or whatever and have that ready. At some holes, a paddle will do, esp if the rescue person is tethered off with a second (works well at Gambler on Big T). It only takes a moment to re-pack the amount of rope necessary, and it is alot more pleasant to receive the end of a properly placed rope than an extra 5# of soaking rope in a bag. 

It is always more fun for me to get tugged out of a clV hole than to swim from one. Maybe that's one guy's perspective, but I've tried both. I'm a self-rescue type, but if a thrashing can be averted, why not?

Try this: before you set safety with a 50' rope from a rock at river's edge, look 50' down river and picture what your swimmer will encounter before she hits shore. How about 15'? Use your rope appropriately. Also, as stated, try to make eye contact before throwing. The best toss can be for naught if your swimmer is not ready for it. I have missed ropes that could have saved me from a nasty situation--it happens. Unless in a dire spot, wait for the swimmer to catch your signal b4 throwing.

Mike


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## adrock (Apr 28, 2004)

*ronny*

ronald reagan sucks (yes still).


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## Caspian (Oct 14, 2003)

How predictable.


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## adrock (Apr 28, 2004)

*predictions*

Hey Caspian, 

Ironically enough, it is also quite predictable that you have shown back up in this thread, where you shouldn't be, since you have not run Super Collider. :?: :!: :shock:    8) :twisted: :twisted: :roll: :wink: 

ronald reagan still sucks


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## adrock (Apr 28, 2004)

*info*

mike a, 

Good info, regardless of whether or not I like ronny.

I might be running the gambler this week.
I will keep your experiences there in mind.


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## Caspian (Oct 14, 2003)

Yeah, you're right. I'll stay out of your thread from here on out. I really don't know a lot about kayaking, reading water or running safety. Twenty-six years of boating whitewater isn't that much, and I've never gotten surfed in a hole in all that time anyway. And I sure didn't paddle straight into the meat of the hole at Crystal either. I'm clearly out of my league...what was I thinking...I don't even drink Red Bull.


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## suigeneris (May 25, 2004)

*posting restrictions*

I'm exercising my 1st Amendment rights. I also think I'll enjoy replacing the trimmer line on my weed eater as opposed to this discussion. Over and out, Maverick.


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## adrock (Apr 28, 2004)

*missing the point*

Caspian,

I have no doubts that you are a great boater, probably a better boater than myself - after 26 years of river running. I guess what I am getting at is somehow a post directed specifically at a particular drop (a drop veteran boaters will be running) got perverted into a class II-III ropes tutorial.

I think if we want to start a thread on how to use ropes, for novices we should do such, rather than twist my example into something it should not have been.

Irregardless, the info in this post is great. I hope none of us ever take any of this on-line stuff to seriously. Obviously the best classroom is the river and the best lessons will come with beautiful days spent with bros/sistas on the river. Maby you and I can paddle together sometime and share rope stories over a beer. I do work at a brewery.

Peace Casp, AM


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## Caspian (Oct 14, 2003)

Yeah, peace it is. We can always go at it in October when we're pissed off that everything has dried up - after all that's how it's done here I guess.


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