# Kayak for the Grand Canyon



## GoodTimes (Mar 9, 2006)

I paddled it at about the exact same flows in my Liquid Logic CR250 which is most comparable to your superfun. I wished I had a faster boat...there were some waves I just couldn't catch. I'm not a superstar playboater and hole riding isn't really my thing...so I was a little disappointed I couldn't catch and/or stay on the bigger waves.

My .02


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## ccombs (Mar 17, 2004)

I'm in a similar situation except I will have to row the raft through the harder rapids and will only get to kayak the easier rapids unless my raft partner picks up his rafting game. My choices are between a LL biscut, Dagger Super Ego, Pyrana S8, Blistick Mystic. I'm comfortable in all these boats and I'm leaning towards the S8 because its fast but still somewhat playful for surf. I'm hoping it will allow me to catch those bigger waves on the fly, not planning on doing too much hole surfing but you never know. If I had your choices I would take the diesel.


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## Ryanrugger (Jun 7, 2005)

I paddled it in 2011 @ 21000 and took a superstar. It was awesome, but I wish I had a bit more speed. So the super fun would probably better. Most definitely take a playboat style boat if it is comfy. It's gonna change your whole prospective!


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## johng (Apr 25, 2005)

I'm in my mid-50's and recently paddled the big ditch in an RPM. I'm convinced it's the best boat ever made for that sort of trip - big water, fast current, not very difficult. The RPM has exceptional hull speed, it's comfortable, and easy to roll. The whitewater isn't difficult, but the current is very fast so you really want a boat that helps you catch waves. Even with a fast boat, you'll probably miss most of the waves you try to catch. 

In my opinion, none of the boats you listed fits the bill as a great GC kayak. Of the boats you listed, I'd probably just take which ever one is most comfortable. But if you can borrow something that's fast, I'd recommend doing so, especially if this might be a once in a lifetime trip - go for it!


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## ldemuth6 (May 31, 2009)

Was down last Jan and though I had a biscuit55 and jefe, I grabbed a RPM for shits and giggles. Loved the RPM, was able to surf just about anything and had one helluva time in it....
That said, next time I'm taking something more along the lines of a playboat: my biscuit was just too small for extended river time, so I'm looking a the new FUNs and the LL Freeride (anyone have a used Freeride....)? hope this helps some


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## MtnGuyXC (Jul 20, 2006)

*Grand kayak*



Ryanrugger said:


> I paddled it in 2011 @ 21000 and took a superstar. It was awesome, but I wish I had a bit more speed. So the super fun would probably better. Most definitely take a playboat style boat if it is comfy. It's gonna change your whole prospective!


Hey Ryan...could you elaborate on what exactly you are saying regarding it's gonna change my whole perspective...Perspectice of what?
Thanxs


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## MtnGuyXC (Jul 20, 2006)

*Grand Kayak*

I know people luv their RPM's for fast glassy waves... I've been around them when I couldn't catch anything in either of my Jacksons & they were surfing away 
I considered trying to find an Axiom which is like the new version of an RPM but haven't found a used one in my size. Anyone paddle one?


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## Ryanrugger (Jun 7, 2005)

You're right! I did mean perspective. My bad. Any who, Life man! Life! It will change your whole perspective on life.


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## pretender (Dec 23, 2008)

*Axiom!!!*

I have one and love it...river-running surfing machine, I have the 8.5 at 5'11" 185 nekid and it fits me great . One more thing don't be put off by the stern...it's not catchy unless you want it to be. check this out;
www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOI4aG_30MC


MtnGuyXC said:


> I know people luv their RPM's for fast glassy waves... I've been around them when I couldn't catch anything in either of my Jacksons & they were surfing away
> I considered trying to find an Axiom which is like the new version of an RPM but haven't found a used one in my size. Anyone paddle one?


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## blutzski (Mar 31, 2004)

I second (or third or fourth) the RPM. So much fun looking over your shoulder and catching waves on the fly in Hermits and gutting the holes at Crystal and 209(?) and doing seemingly endless stern squirts in the whirlpools. (You can tell I'm not a hotshot playboater if I get off on front surfs and stern squirts) The RPM is an awesome GC boat. I would check out the Axiom too. Plus I paddled the whole length, so comfort was key. My legs fall asleep in my playboat. 

A friend had an old Prijon Fly and that was fun too but I liked the RPM better.

In my opinon, it would be worth buying a used RPM for the trip rather than taking one of the boats you listed.

The other thing about the comfort. It is so blazing hot down there that I did not want to spend any time on the rafts. Being in a kayak where you are covered and can cool off any time was the way to go. Which rules out uncomfortable playboats and riding the rafts between the rapids.

By the way that's my RPM on Page 58 of Whitewater of the Southern Rockies. God I want to go back soon! Have a great trip!


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## rivervibe (Apr 24, 2007)

Last time I ran the Grand some years ago I took the LL Vision 56 and had a great time. Most of the playboating consists of big glassy waves and often I was wishing I had a faster boat. When I go again next year I'm planning on taking my Fluid Spice. It's like a larger down-river playboat and I'm looking forward to a bit more speed. Comfort is good to consider as well. I guess if I had your quiver I'd take the Diesel... fast enough for all the waves and you're going to like the edges in the big water.


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## Canada (Oct 24, 2006)

*I'd buy a new boat*

Seriously, how many chances in your life are you going to get to hit the Grand? Get a modern river runner. I consider the RPM an old boat and my newest boat is a decade old. 

Look for something with a planing hull with speed. It will allow you to get out and spin on some of that green glass and not kill yourself on the flats. I think I would look for a boat that I could catch little D on westwater with, and then have fun on that wave. When I bring smaller play boats, I frustrate myself trying to eddy into that wave.

I think if you brought a diesel, it would be comfortable, but you would want something with a little, or alot more ability to play. There are so many boats that fit between jackson play boats and a diesel.

Just my two opinionated cents.


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## MtnGuyXC (Jul 20, 2006)

*Grand kayak*

Thanxs Folks...keep it coming.....
Yes Canada...I find Little D frustrating to get into with either of my Jacksons so I rarely even try anymore...I just get out.. hike my boat up & do the fun little seal launch & then I'm assured of preeetty much catching it every time...
Unfortunately I do not fit in old RPM...which I've seen plenty of for sale over time..Would have to find one of their 9.2's that they made for a few years..


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## MtnGuyXC (Jul 20, 2006)

*Grand kayak*

So far the focus seems to be on speed for catching fast glassy waves.....What about the aspect of a larger volume boat verse the smaller volume of more playful boats with respect to dealing with just big erratic/squirely water, boils, vortex's, weird eddy fences etc...
Thanxs


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## Canada (Oct 24, 2006)

*your running it at 14K peak.*

I bet you've run similar water in your smallest play boat?


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## MtnGuyXC (Jul 20, 2006)

*Grand kayak*

Well I guess everyone got tired of this thread...Certainly Understandable....I think I'll just take that Walmart innertube with the Dinosaur head on it I saw the other day..Cheers.


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## Preston H. (Jun 25, 2008)

MtnGuyXC said:


> Well I guess everyone got tired of this thread...Certainly Understandable.....


Probably because this is one of the most frequently asked questions here. Do a search and you will find hours of reading on the subject.

IMO, the faster the boat, the better. But it all depends on what you're into. Do you like a tiny boat in biggish water? Are you a front surfing maniac? Are you a squirt boater? Are there any squirt boaters left?


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## cosurfgod (Oct 10, 2003)

I'm headed down in August and I am willing to buy a boat just for the trip. The rpm sounds good but I was thinking of something a little slicier. 

-necky orbit (if it fits). Does anyone know how it fits?
-pyrahha s8 or s6. They seem hard to find. 
-riot dominatrix
-wavesport z or xxx

Any other suggestions or anybody have one of these for cheap?
Thanks!


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## rivervibe (Apr 24, 2007)

Dude, the XXX would be an interesting trip down the Canyon. I'm not a big guy and paddled one for years back when it was a new boat and developed bone spurs on the sides of my feet. There's just not a lot of room up there. Think of comfort for a whole trip. Also, in big water like that it would pretty much be like squirt boating the whole way. I'd love to see video of it done though!


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## eljim (Sep 19, 2007)

I took a Z and my New Wave Underdog squirt boat. I'm 6'2 190lbs. I paddled the squirt boat thru the rapids (except the Jems long 30 something mile day). I don't like round hulls for surfing. Tapeats creek looked good to go when we hiked to thunder river. Have fun!


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## Awoody (Nov 15, 2006)

22' snout rig with female pilots, and the following kayaks on board: RPM, Riot Techno and Glide, Orbit Fish, Rockstar, carbon slalom boat, Techline Sin and a ForPlay. And I wouldn't paddle a single inch of flatwater.


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## Daggerdave (Sep 21, 2010)

deseil. no question


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## cosurfgod (Oct 10, 2003)

Awoody, you know I'm a motor boatin son of bitch. Just looking for the right boat for the canyon. Diesel?! Seriously? Get a pair.


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## ZGjethro (Apr 10, 2008)

I used a Dagger vortex in 1995 and my wavesport Y in 2000. I have a comfy S8 now, but I might be tempted to take a faster boat.

If I was smaller, a boat like the old Dagger Redline (kinda like a flat bottomed RPM) might be and option for fast front surfing. My old Dagger outburst (10'-10") was the boat I wish I had had down there.


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