# Drysuits?



## raftus (Jul 20, 2005)

I have a Kokatat GFER suit in size XL. I am 6'5" and about 200. I realize that the Kokatat may not meet your definition of reasonably priced, but it is a quality suit. The relief zipper is super nice and if you are a rafter dry socks are, in my mind at least, a must. 

When I guided in AK we used kokatat gore-tex suits for all of our commercial clients. 99% of people fit into the suits (we had up to 2xl). Only people at probably 350+ lbs. didn't fit into the dry suits. You shouldn't have any real problems finding a suit that fits.


----------



## hobie (Nov 3, 2003)

I have the Kokatat as well and am super stoked for spring. My first dry suit ever. Good-bye cold! 

hobie


----------



## GAtoCSU (Apr 18, 2005)

I'll second that the Kokatat Gor-tex drysuit is the best on the market. However, the IR and the Palm come in a very close second. I have the Palm drysuit atm and it does a good job.

The IR drysuit is my next drysuit.


----------



## rwhyman (May 23, 2005)

While we're on dry suits, how about the Kokatat Super Nova with the neoprene neck or the Stohlquist B-Pod which also has the neoprene neck. Since I'm a rafter, hopefully, I won't spend a lot of time with my head in the water and I think not having latex at the neck would be real plus in the area of comfort. Does anybody have any experience with either of these suits?


----------



## GAtoCSU (Apr 18, 2005)

If I buy a drysuit then I want it to be dry. Other than that...

A drysuit with gaskets on the arms and feet and not on the neck would seem to be a drowning risk to me. Lets say you take a bad swim, and are in the water for 5-10 minutes...leaking.... How much water would you have in your suit?

Bad idea in my opinion. But, I could be wrong.

Scott


----------



## oarbender (Feb 3, 2007)

I weat thr kokatat GFER suit as well, But, they arn't cheap. I used to have a mid 90's tat, that was a non-breather, and the difference is incredible.

its hard to justify spending the bucks on a drysuit, but if your going to have one, spend the money on a good one.

Primary use for mine, is just overall comfort, but if it helps you justify spending the cash, think about it as a saftey tool. the better preformance you get outta your suit, the longer you can be involved in a rescue situation, should the need arise


----------



## El Flaco (Nov 5, 2003)

I bought my first drysuit last year, in my 17th season of boating. Dumb not to get one before- such a difference in comfort. 

Anyway- Anybody got ideas as to how I might make the socks a little longer in my drysuit? I'm 6'4" as well and the length of the socks is just a couple of inches too short- of course it makes the entire suit a little tight all the way up to the shoulders. I could switch the legs out to ankle gaskets, but I gotta say I was loving the socks when I wore it for the first time on that fall Big Thompson release in November. The only thing I can think of is to buy another pair of waterproof socks and cut/glue onto the old ones. Seems pricey.


----------



## Uncle B (Nov 14, 2003)

Does anybody rent/demo dry suits? I'm doing a SWR class in April and don't want to freeze and I also can't afford to buy a suit on my teaching salary. Any ideas?


----------



## mazmoto (Sep 15, 2005)

*I have Super Nova*



rwhyman said:


> While we're on dry suits, how about the Kokatat Super Nova with the neoprene neck or the Stohlquist B-Pod which also has the neoprene neck. Since I'm a rafter, hopefully, I won't spend a lot of time with my head in the water and I think not having latex at the neck would be real plus in the area of comfort. Does anybody have any experience with either of these suits?


I think it works great for rafting. I have had a couple swims in it and it kept me warm and dry. I use it probably 15 to 20 times a year and found the $400.00 for a XXL sized model a super deal.


----------



## raftus (Jul 20, 2005)

El Flaco said:


> I bought my first drysuit last year, in my 17th season of boating. Dumb not to get one before- such a difference in comfort.
> 
> Anyway- Anybody got ideas as to how I might make the socks a little longer in my drysuit? I'm 6'4" as well and the length of the socks is just a couple of inches too short- of course it makes the entire suit a little tight all the way up to the shoulders. I could switch the legs out to ankle gaskets, but I gotta say I was loving the socks when I wore it for the first time on that fall Big Thompson release in November. The only thing I can think of is to buy another pair of waterproof socks and cut/glue onto the old ones. Seems pricey.


If it is a kokatat you should call them and see what they would charge to do it for you. For $50 or $75 it might be really worthwhile.

As for the neoprene neck gaskets - I have heard from friends with them that they might let in a few drops of water, but that they are quite dry overall.


----------



## randomnature (Jun 10, 2007)

*Kokotat Gore-Tex*

I've had a Kokotat for over ten years. I originally bought it for Winter seakayaking in Maine and it made the transition to rivers well. I use it for early season rafting on the Eagle and it works great. I take care of it and it has lasted well. Very tough too. If you have a swim in very cold water, you will not regret it. If you have find yourself having to be in cold water for a long time, you will want it.


----------



## rwhyman (May 23, 2005)

Both Kokatat and Stohlquist claim that in a swim very little water gets in the neck through the neoprene. Unless your getting thrashed in a hole, I would think that your PFD would hold your neck out of the water so you are dealing mainly with splash, not underwater pressure. I was just hoping to hear from someone with experience with one of them. As you can tell, I'm not totally sold on this yet.



GAtoCSU said:


> If I buy a drysuit then I want it to be dry. Other than that...
> 
> A drysuit with gaskets on the arms and feet and not on the neck would seem to be a drowning risk to me. Lets say you take a bad swim, and are in the water for 5-10 minutes...leaking.... How much water would you have in your suit?
> 
> ...



Mazmoto, Thanks for your input


----------



## GAtoCSU (Apr 18, 2005)

If it's anything like the IR tops that lack the neck gasket.. It's not the driest piece of gear on the block.

Spend the extra $200, get a real drysuit, and hopefully get one on sale.


----------



## Yonder_River (Feb 6, 2004)

raftus said:


> If it is a kokatat you should call them and see what they would charge to do it for you. For $50 or $75 it might be really worthwhile.


I had Rainy Pass up here in Seattle replace some old latex booties with gore-tex ones in an old Kokatat of mine. It cost at least $125 from what I remember.


----------



## El Flaco (Nov 5, 2003)

Yonder_River said:


> I had Rainy Pass up here in Seattle replace some old latex booties with gore-tex ones in an old Kokatat of mine. It cost at least $125 from what I remember.


Thanks for the suggestion- i'll check into that. This is a Palm with the stockingfoot fabric socks (not latex), so they don't stretch. The fact that I paid $130 (STP clearance plus a 20% coupon code) makes them a great deal, but I'm reluctant to double the cost to extend the feet. If that's the cost, I'm thinking I might aquaseal an additional waterproof tunnel where the stocking connects to the suit, near the calf. Maybe I can find a cheap pair of hip waders to salvage material from...


----------



## crackeryaker (Oct 15, 2003)

Flaco, where did you find that on clearance? Stp?


----------



## Dave Frank (Oct 14, 2003)

crackeryaker said:


> Flaco, where did you find that on clearance? Stp?


STP = sierra trading post


----------



## MtnGuyXC (Jul 20, 2006)

*Drysuits??*

I suppose I should have clarified that I would be using the suit 99% of the time for kayaking. Raftus the GFER that you have does it have a outer tunnel? I would think from yaking stand point you would want that feature. How about you Hobie... which Kokatat model did you end up with? Any feedback on NRS Mission Drysuit or a IR suit?..............Also what about the foot/sock situation....These suits with goretex or latex socks....do they have any traction/tread on them?... or for creeking/portaging situations do you still end up wearing some sort of shoe over them? 
Thanxs for all the feedback

MynGuyXC


----------



## GAtoCSU (Apr 18, 2005)

I have the Palm Torrent (blue w/ booties and a tunnel) and love it. I've spent ~30 minutes in the water pulling trees out of creeks and remained dry and warm (Joe Wright Creek in May).

As for traction, I wear my my Nike ACG's over my dry booties and a pair of mid-weight Capeline socks from patagonia.

I haven't used the NRS but I would be hisitant. Their products are not known as the most dry on the market including their top of the line dry tops. IR is known for a quality product and according to them, they will make sure it's right. I have no doubt in my mind that they have THE BEST customer service in the business and there's a reason why people love their product (I have their drytop, pants, etc.).

Kokatat, IR, and Palm are the 3 companies tha I would look into with the last two being the best value for the buck.


----------



## JCKeck1 (Oct 28, 2003)

The Kokatat GMER is absolutely the shit. Dry as a bone and breathes well. I have enough confidence in mine that I only brought my paddling clothes on a three day class V run. It's that dry. Spend the money and get booties and a relief zipper. Your paddling days will be 88% better.
Joe


----------



## El Flaco (Nov 5, 2003)

crackeryaker said:


> Flaco, where did you find that on clearance? Stp?


Yep- the only downside besides the length is that it doesn't have a tunnel- I'm just going to throw a shortie splash top over the sprayskirt tunnel and put a sponge in the creeker. 

Now all I gotta do is book my date with the Magnetic Wall on Escalante, and I'm all set for Spring.


----------



## raftus (Jul 20, 2005)

The GFER dosen't have a tunnel, you need to get the Meridian GMER if you need the tunnel. I am a rafter and have no idea how much, if any, water gets in your boat without the tunnel.

http://www.kokatat.com/product_drysuits_meridian.asp

The socks are just normal gore-tex fabric or latex and in no way suitable for portages. You need something over them - most people either wear sneakers or some type of neoprene bootie. 

Latex socks are cheaper, but don't breathe. Personally I think that the extra cost for the gore-tex is quite questionable. If you wear a neoprene bootie over the sock how does it really breathe? My feet always end up a bit damp with my gore-tex socks. I have had kokatat replace then and I have done numerous aquaseal patches on them as well. With the latex you can fairly easily replace the socks yourself, but again after a long day paddling your feet do end up damp from sweat. Personal preference really.


----------



## Claytonious (Jan 17, 2008)

I know the Kokotat suits are better than NRS ones hands down. The cut on the Kokotat suits is just a step above. But you said you were looking for reasonably priced suit. I bought a large NRS suit with the relief zipper and attached socks last year. I am 6'' 165 lbs and the large suit is pretty big on me. Other than that it is a decent suit. I have not had any issues getting wet in it. I have even swam in it in the middle of winter and stayed totally warm and dry. 

If you do go with an NRS suit, go with one size smaller than you normally would.


----------



## northfwestg (Feb 23, 2006)

*i got your drysiut nrs extreme*



MtnGuyXC said:


> I am looking to purchase a drysuit: I am 6'3" 215lbs. Any big guys out there have any recomendations for a reasonably priced suit that is durable, comfortable, & good range of movement. I am basically just looking in the NRS & CKS catalogs at this point. Any input no matter what your size would be appreciated.
> Thanxs,
> MtnGuyXC


yo mtnguyxc i got a drysuit for you, nrs extreme, size xl, used 8 times, 225 shipped to you, gaskets are all perfect, flawless suit, its what i wear but i wear a large for commercial trips, they hold up great, thanks 406-250-8890 color is grey, new 500 dollars plus


----------



## caspermike (Mar 9, 2007)

Uncle B said:


> Does anybody rent/demo dry suits? I'm doing a SWR class in April and don't want to freeze and I also can't afford to buy a suit on my teaching salary. Any ideas?


buy $100 nrs top from cks great last season deals and fleece up the legs. wool socks and sandels?


----------



## peterB (Nov 21, 2003)

just got the IR drysuit. I paddled barrel on Sunday in the snow and I was sweating,even with all the mad loops I was hucking. Okay I rolled after a few attempts. The relief zipper worked well. I was able to zip and unzip the back zipper with minimal wresting and did not notice it when I was paddling. Not cheap but I was loving it. I have no relationship with IR. Nothing to compare to and it was so new that the water was beading up on it.

Peter


----------



## MtnGuyXC (Jul 20, 2006)

*Drysuits ??*

Northfwestg,

Thanxs for the offer... I appreciate it but I am convinced at this point that a front relief zip & a tunnel are worth the bucks.

MtnGuyXC


----------



## Schizzle (Mar 26, 2004)

Here's my $0.02.

Have an older model NRS suit with tunnel. Added a relief zip for a pretty penny (~$100-ish), but it's worth it. FWIW, I don't have booties, just ankle gaskets, and it's fine with me. I wear neoprene socks and creek shoes. I can see how on really cold, long trips booties would be nicer as the gaskets cut down on circulation.

I got the suit on the cheap from NRS because it wasn't breathable material. The next season they came out with the current model that uses breathable fabric and has some upgrades like stock with relief zip and I think booties, too. So far my suit worked out fine (once I added the relief zip) because I don't use it in warm weather and with a life jacket and spray tunnel, I wonder how much could I really evaporate out of the suit anyway? If I get hot, roll practice. That's my thinking on the issue.

I've never owned a breathable top though so I may not know what I'm missing. I do know one thing though, my regular NRS drytop is not breathable either and it's on it's 7th season this year, 3rd neck gasket, 2nd wrist gaskets, and still no leaks. The gore-tex materials seem to break down a lot faster as most of my friends' drytops leak after a few seasons. So there is a durability vs. comfortability issue to consider with materials, too.


----------



## Phillips (Feb 19, 2004)

Thanks Schizzle, I'm thinking about an NRS as well. I'm sick of being cold and wet in the spring. Guess I'm getting more particular the older I get. Any word on any other suits such as Stolquist?

Kent


----------



## raftus (Jul 20, 2005)

*Breatheable vs not*

Rafters perspective: Training a new guide up in AK on the Nenana I got to see the real value of Gore-tex compared to non-breathable (I call them bag) suits. It was a beautiful day for AK, about 65-70 and sunny. The trainee guide is working hard to keep the 18' raft in the right part of the current and make the relatively easy class II moves. He is sweating. About half an hour later he open the right wrist gasket of his bag - and sweat literally pours out. He repeats this with the other wrist and both ankle gaskets. During the next hour this gets repeated two more times. Bag suits and drytops are really like wearing a high tech trash bag - they keep outside water out and inside water, ie sweat, in. 

When you are working hard in moderate temperatures you sweat a fair bit, and gore-tex really does breathe. For a rafter who gets less wet than a kayaker the breathable fabric makes a real difference. That said a non-breathable drysuit is a heck of a lot better than no drysuit, and in really cold conditions with moderate or low work levels the benefit of the breatheability is minimized. 

It is also worth noting that if you mostly do 1/2 day to single day trips the side effects of being damp from sweat aren't huge, but your odds of ending up chilled at the end of the day increase. If you are doing a multi-day trip in cold conditions the benefit of keeping your insulating layers dry and effective can be huge.


----------



## deepsouthpaddler (Apr 14, 2004)

Kokatat drysuit (GMER) + Gore putin at 17F + lots of snow = warm and sweating a bit on the paddle in. Its worth it!

The booties really pay dividends on the very cold days. Late season / early season. Bear creek in the snow. Your feet are dry and you can wear wool socks. 

To add to the drysuit, I have NRS toaster mitts, neoprene mittens. Wayyyy warmer than pogies, and you don't have to take your hands out of them when you portage / scout in the snow. 

With a good drysuit, weather will not be the limit to paddling, ice and flow will.


----------



## Phillips (Feb 19, 2004)

deepsouthpaddler said:


> Kokatat drysuit (GMER) + Gore putin at 17F + lots of snow = warm and sweating a bit on the paddle in. Its worth it!
> 
> The booties really pay dividends on the very cold days. Late season / early season. Bear creek in the snow. Your feet are dry and you can wear wool socks.
> 
> ...


Ahhh Bear Creek in the snow and sweating. . . Can anyone loan me the cash for a Kokatat? Promise I'll pay you later


----------

