# Read about the Green Race from a Women's Perspective!



## Anna Levesque (Oct 6, 2006)

Andria Baldovin, this year's Green Queen, shares insight into her race day. http://www.watergirlsatplay.com/trip_green_race.html


----------



## moshe (Nov 9, 2005)

*guy vs gal attitudes in article*

First off, great article. Rock on ladies!

But a couple of things struck me about the female/male difference in paddling:

1) I found it interesting that Andria mentioned the confidence gained with by paddling with her fiance for running the gnar. Myself and two of my other good IV girlfriends all went through a dependence stage on significant others in paddling and steppin' it up. We all three seriously lost our confidence after break-ups where these guys were no longer our safety net. We all eventually gained it back and became more independent, self confident, safety-aware paddlers. A very good thing - but the time getting there was hard. Have other females experienced this with significant others? Does this EVER happen with guys or is this just a chick thing? 

2) The self-preservation comment....I paddle predominately with guys who joke I have ovaries of steel...but they ring like bells on occassion. Is that why I will portage even when I know I am a better technical boater than my guy friends, but my guy friends will run it? What's the difference between strong self-preservation and plain ol' chicken?


----------



## teamamericawp (Jun 29, 2006)

Never happens_the only thing men depend on you for is sex!


----------



## moshe (Nov 9, 2005)

*not safe even in the betty buzz from tetosterone*

Suppose I should have known that would be a dude's response from the testosterone infected side of the Buzz. Woman are wise. I just did not write it all down and you missed what is inferred. So let me simplify it:

1) Woman know that guys only want sex.

2) Woman use you bad ass boaters as our personal safety guides/coaches to advance our skills. Guys are much more willing to pull our ass out of a hairy situation exactly because we are providing that much demanded service. 

4) Heck, running gnar is a pretty good turn on.

5) The point from earlier: Once that symbiotic relationship ends, if prior to the female having taken advantage of all the coaching, there is a transitional period to which I was referring. 

6) BUT eventually became more independent, self confident, safety-aware paddlers. A very good thing.

At this point guys, you should *pay attention*. Once we don't need you for paddling.....we can also go out and buy a good set of Energizer batteries. Treat us with a bit more respect eh? :wink:


----------



## erdvm1 (Oct 17, 2003)

It sounds like you do an excellent job of paddling for you....I have many times walked when I know that my skills are capable of nailing the line or I have seen a not so great paddler make it. The important issue is to paddle the rapid because you know you can and you feel "it". I have talked about this with many boaters....some that I highly respect which disagree with me.......I run the runs as if there is no one on the shore with a rope or in their boats as safety. I run the rapids as if I'm soloing. I paddle for me...........Some times I do things that people think are for sure out of the question but make sense to me....sometimes I don't paddle things that I've styled in the past ...even the day before. I paddle for me and it sounds like you do the same......Kayaking is amazing and we're all so lucky to have it.


----------



## Anna Levesque (Oct 6, 2006)

*Good Points Moshe*

I can relate to what you're saying. I didn't date another paddler until I was well into my paddling career, but once I started dating Andrew I really felt good about having him on the river -- especially running class IV-V. It may be because we feel that our significant other cares more than other people what happens to us so we have confidence that they're looking out for us. It can be a positive thing, but eventually it becomes a dependence that isn't healthy (in my opinion). I've met women who won't paddle without their significant other and they rely on their companion to tell them if they're ready for something etc.. 

So it's good to ween yourself -- it may be forced through a break-up or women can also just decide to start paddling with other people. That's why I think that paddling with other women can be such a confidence builder. A lot of us have had similar experiences and approach the sport in a similar way. We can support each other to independence. And, in my experience women are VERY supportive of paddling for yourself (like erdvm1 mentioned). And women are more likely to take their time on a harder run and to explore different options together. The more decisions you make for yourself the more confidence you build.


----------



## Steve Kahn (Apr 17, 2004)

i'll agree with you to an extent (moshe) - 

i think that this phenonema can and does happen with dudes, also - basically, i'd describe it as when i'm with competant boaters, i feel more confident and more ready to push my personal limit. most every boater that i boat with is better than I.

so when i'm out with lesser boaters, i don't feel that. 

obviously, sounds like you guys are going the right way, recognizing a potential reliance, and trying to be motiviated to not have that reliance. probably not a good thing for any paddler to be too dependent on someone else, but we all rely on our partners as a safety net to some extent, and that is probably a wise factor to consider when deciding to push it or not.


----------



## mountainbuns (Feb 19, 2004)

I agree that it is easy to slide into a reliance on boating partners who are more skilled. When Ive been with boaters who I trust fully, and especially the times Ive had instructors or guides being paid to watch my back, Ive pushed myself much harder and taken more risks.(ie the kind of risk where I could say well I might take a beating but I wont die and Im paying this guy to clean me up). 

I had whats probably the less typical experience for a female paddler, I never dated a kayaker until I was a solid IV boater (and after that, never dated one long enough to become reliant on their coaching). I often paddled with folks of my skill level or lower, so I became comfortable leading early on. I think this was great because it encouraged me to develop confidence and judgement skills. I think that one of the best things a woman can do is to start to lead early on and often (even if its on class II and you class V boyfriend is following your lead).

That said, it sure is great to paddle with accomplished women. One of my all time best memories is a misty 7 am run down the Bridges section on the Futalefu with Rachel Moore (a guide for Bio Bio Expeditions who equals any other guide on that river), no one else on the river. I was totally inspired by her confidence, skill and low key attitude, and simply the uniqueness of the experience.


----------



## gh (Oct 13, 2003)

I dont really see it as a gender thing but more about your confidence level with whomever you decide to follow and their readiness to help. I started paddling and a paddler took me under his wing and showed me the ropes. He moved to Virginia and I was lost. I realized that I had never picked my own lines or even really scouted. Now when people are following me I make it a point to scout an easy rapid and let them tell me the line and put them up front whenever they are ready.


----------



## WW Lush (Dec 26, 2003)

Great story about the Green- acknowledges many feelings I have had running class V. Learning to let go is a big part of it. I know I still need to practice and work on many of my skills to build my confidence on harder water. However lately I let my fear take over too often when I KNOW deep down I can make the moves necessary. The more this happens the more the fear grows- harnessing it is the hard but essential part. I have not been lucky enough to find other women to paddle with but hope this forum will give me some connections. I love pushing myself ultimately but it can be hard for me to do when I am surrounded by men who seem to deal with fear very differently. 

Moshe- self preservation or plain old chicken?? 
I like that question- I have to admit I am both. I tell my boyfriend and justify it out loud that it is about self preservation... but I know deep down that I am just chicken!! I agree with erdvm that going with whether you feel it or not is huge- however sometimes you just have to go. I ran Tunnel Rapid my first few times I ran Gore. One day I scouted with some others, got scared and decided I was walking it. After that I did not "feel" it for a while. Finally one day I had to say F--- it, I can do this, and just go for it again, even though I wasn't necessarily totally "feelin it". I have "felt it" and totally gotten my butt kicked- then I start to question that "feeling it" instinct... lalala- here starts the overanalysis which can paralyze me!

Kayaking with a significant other.......


----------



## erdvm1 (Oct 17, 2003)

You know "feeling it" Doesn't mean you'll make it. It means you ran it and you're willing to accept the results for the right reasons.........Kayaking is risky and taking the risks for the wrong reasons takes away from why I love kayaking. ...............This is one of the best discussions I've ever had on the Buzz........Are guys allowed in the Betty Buzz?? Or am I poaching?


----------



## holley (Mar 8, 2004)

Guys are definitely allowed on Betty Buzz! Glad you are part of it. It's those creepy comments directed toward women that we would rather not have to deal with on Betty Buzz. 

Speaking of...nice comeback, moshe. :wink:


----------



## nicoleg (Nov 14, 2003)

*male protection*

I feel more safe boating with my husband, no doubt. Most of the times I have pushed myself skill wise I made sure he was in the group, more from a safety than a confidence-inspiring perspective. I suppose part of it is because I know he's looking out for me because he loves me, but it's more because he really knows his shit with safety/rescue- way more so than my class III-IV boating friends that I regularly paddle with. 

On the other hand, I have been extremely frustrated boating with him- when I have felt like :shock: and he's floating backward through a rapid (hohum...). Drives me CRAZY! Plus I have this feeling that I want to impress him- a feeling I don't have when boating with paddling buddies at my skill level. I've found that I'm a bit harder on myself when I paddle with him too- a swim or wrong move seems to embarass me more or something. I want him to think I'm a good paddler.

I am really thankful that we can share together something that means so much to each of us. Most of the season we don't paddle together, which isn't such a bad thing either- I have a chance to learn at my own pace. And when we do paddle together, I get free lessons, which is great... but it's not like you want to be in student mode every time you're on the river.

my long 2 cents worth 

nicole wigston


----------



## Gary E (Oct 27, 2003)

Great article from Andria! I've paddled with her many times and seen her at her worst along with alot of shinning moments. She is a very strong willed woman. I've paddled alot with women in the past and think Andria hit alot of issues paddling as a woman that I have witnessed. Very nice to read she stepped up and cleaned up without her safety net.

Moshe, chicken? As you know walking is part of our game. My thoughts on your last sentence is this. Did I have clean lines til this decision? If yes, ask yourself 2 very important questions. 1-can I make the lines needed to run clean(skill wise) 2- can I deal with the consquences of missing them.(getting worked, swim, do you feel strong ect) if yes to these two questions, I say get in there and try. If no on either two, try again next trip. Somedays we want to push and some days we want to relax. It's suppose to be fun and sometimes you watch the show, other times you are the show. Either way it's great. Remember you're the only one in your boat to pay the piper or reap the rewards of riding the liquid train. So your decisions are yours.

Mountainbuns, are we hitting the NF this year? It's about time to boat together again?

Some of my best boating memories I have are with a couple Cali girls leading me down a high water purdons run. Boater girls make a great elimate a little better.

Good luck ladies


----------



## sj (Aug 13, 2004)

Nice posts Moshe. It's been 29 years since my first rapid. And i think some of the stuff you describe as female boating related is not really gender specific. Most of us had a mentor who helped us along then some became mentors ourselves. Altho payment schedules were obviously different :shock: . I too have watched young men with less of a skill level run stuff I walk. I call it just plain chicken but that's me. especially since I have had kids. Anyway enjoyed your posts. and don't get a big head about the verbal spanking you gave ole super patriot he easy  . sj


----------

