# Holy mother of beatdowns!!!



## deepsouthpaddler (Apr 14, 2004)

http://www.boatertalk.com/forum/BoaterTalk/1136396

Just saw this clip of this guy going over gorilla on the green and getting knocked out. Holy S*%&!!! This guy is lucky to be alive. The boaters who jumped in an did a tethered swimmer hand of god win heroes of the day.


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## COUNT (Jul 5, 2005)

Holy shit. Makes you realize the importance of a good safety crew.


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## tuberslickmysweatyballs (Sep 24, 2005)

holy shit.

i think watching a guy with a head injury/possible neck injury get pulled in by his helmet was as scary as him going over the falls like he did.

control the adrenaline and think clearly, people. fuck.


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## TennesseeMatt (Jul 21, 2005)

You all know that was at the Green Race right? So lots of folks were on hand. The guy in the video posted on boatertalk about the whole experience.


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## tuberslickmysweatyballs (Sep 24, 2005)

got a link to the thread? BT is such a fuckwad mess to find stuff on...


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## deepsouthpaddler (Apr 14, 2004)

http://www.boatertalk.com/forum/BoaterTalk/1136377

Link to Nick's story about his crash. It was during the Green race, and there was lots of safety. I guess it scared the shit out of me seeing an unconcious boater getting pulled in.


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## andy (Oct 13, 2003)

- Referencing the link below....

Here's an example of bad/ no safety. Seems they had the camera set up, but no ropes. 


This guy takes a serious beatdown.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xE5N52V3IRk&NR

-edited to make it clear I was not talking about the Green video


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## stillwaterpaddler (Nov 16, 2003)

pretty hard for an unconscious person to respond to safety don't you think Andy


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## jennifer (Oct 14, 2003)

I think I see a guy with a rope in the video. I don't think the boater would grab a rope, no matter how many are thrown at him.


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## heliodorus04 (May 31, 2005)

Speaking of the second video posted herein:

I'm not the kind of boater who runs stuff where you need to set up a safety, generally speaking, but that second video looks to me like an example of what NOT to do when running something so gnar. I'm not trying to be accusatory, but it seemed from my inexperienced point of view that 1) the second boat should have been told not to proceed, and 2) the safety was poorly organized.

Both rope throwers didn't seem to be set in a position that they could avoid getting pulled off the high rocks into the water had they needed to get some serious torque to pull the guy in the hole out.

How am I wrong?


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## yourrealdad (May 25, 2004)

I think the bad safety started long before the throwing/non throwing of the rope. Bad scouting or beta or cockiness. Why would you throw your paddle away on a hole that will re-circ a person? Yeah cool throw your paddle on a drop that might re-circ a boat but most likely let a person go. Theres no need to throw a paddle knowing that your probably not going to get out in your boat but also just yourself. Like I said bad scouting or beta someone should have told him how sticky the hole was. Cockiness, if some one did then he is just rolling some heavy dice.


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## COUNT (Jul 5, 2005)

I agree. I'd seen that second vid before and it pissed me off a little bit. They had plenty of people there to set safety yet it took them over ten seconds to get the first rope out. They should have stopped the second kayaker from going while the first guy was getting recirced. Then the paddlers came up to try and help but should have realized they would just be getting in the way of the attempts to get a rope out to the swimmer. It's lucky that one boater that got surfed didn't swim, making things twice as bad. Then that guy throws the rope to the swimmer _between_ the to kayakers just asking for everybody to get tangled up in it. And what the HELL was the guy doing when he decided to slide down the drop on his ass? That was just plain stupid. My .02.

COUNT


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## Cutch (Nov 4, 2003)

Regardless of what the safety is doing, the swimmer should be working on getting out of the hole using the currents. I didn't see a lot of effort to dive down deep and swim down to the river bottom. I personally would prefer that my safety waited to throw the rope for at least 10 seconds, because I'll likely need longer than that to get oriented and then attempt to swim back into the curtain of the falls. The last thing I want when I'm recircing in a hole is a rope to get tangled around me. I'll throw a hand in the air if I want a rope, but don't think that you have to throw a rope for even the first 30 seconds. 

Once I flush under the bottom or signal though, hit me. 

And throwing your paddle isn't that cool. Stomping the boof with a paddle earns more style points. 

Obviously, if a paddler is knocked out different rules apply. I'm only talking about the second vid.


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## xkayaker13 (Sep 30, 2006)

I agree after watching that second video that safety was poorly set, disorganized, and was not using very wise judgement at all. However, as far as being cocky on a serious drop goes... I don't know if I would label it that. Anyone with a basic understanding of river hydrology should be able to easily swim out of a very low voulume pourover. And more importantly, if you are going to run drops like that, you should have already practiced how to swim out of a ledge-like pourover in a less serious situation or swiftwater rescue course. 
Of course, rapids in a video always seem to be way less signifigant, and I've never scouted or more importantly tried to swim out of that paticular rapid. Personally, having practiced swimming out of very similar ledges, I would think that if you knew what your doing, that rapid would not be much of a saftey concern at all. Obviously, regaurdelss of how serious that rapid really is, they should've set saftey and handled the rescue much differently. 

Also, on one other note, why was the person behind the camera still filming? By the end it was obviously becoming a life-threatning situation. Even if your not a kayaker, and you don't know what your doing, you should still put down your camera and see how you could assist the rescuers. 

And just to draw out my post a litle longer... everyone does it. It's easy to talk shit (myself included) about what other people are doing wrong setting saftey. But seriously...
How many times have you half-assed setting saftey?
Or been disorganized as a group about whats going on?
Not had a pin kit or a throw rope?
And ecspecially, not communicated as much as you should have?
I know I've done these things before.

I mean honestly, how many groups of paddlers talk before they put on about what hand signals they use, or get together before a big rapid and make a plan? I'd say for the most part it does't happen.

Communicating with your group, setting saftey, getting trained, and having the proper gear are things that most people think about, but just put on their to do list until one day they really need to use it, and it's too late. 

Just some fuel for though...

Peace,
-Christian


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## JCKeck1 (Oct 28, 2003)

Here's some other things that pissed me off about the second video.

1. I'm pretty sure that the guy with the rapel rope on the cliff didn't have a pfd on. Correct me if I'm wrong. If you don't have a pfd you are a liability in any river situation. 

2. Never, ever create another victim in a rescue situation. Homeboys in their boats can try for a grab at you, but don't fuck that one up and get in the hole yourself like they did. 

3. The guy going over on his ass looked like he had a rope to his vest for a strong swimmer rescue attempt. Even if he managed to grab swimmer #1 the person holding the rope would only be able to pull them both back into the falls. They needed a different setup, but right idea especially if the swimmer becomes unconscious. If the guy didn't have a rope tied to him with a rescue vest, see #2.

4. Carry a rope with you every time you get out of your boat. I can't count the times I get out to scout a big rapid with less experienced paddlers then they want to watch my line, but they didn't bother getting their rope out of their boat to set safety. Also, the Astral bags that fit into your jacket and the waist bags are great to have in a dire emergency, but they are generally on 35 ft or so. That wouldn't have helped the dude in the video - nor will it generally work on your local river. When you get out of your boat, carry your big bag. I also have 3 biners, prussiks and pulleys in my jacket along with a daisey chained webbing around my waist. That way I always have all my rescue gear, even if I swim. Always carry a knife.

5. All that gear is worthless unless you have the understanding and strategy to make it work. Guy in point #3 is the perfect example. He's got all the gear for a strong swimmer rescue and no technique. One of the best pieces of advice that I ever received was to go to the opposite bank from your partners if something goes wrong. This way people are on both sides of the river and can set up a tag line or pull a Z-drag either direction. Take a swift water rescue class. Wigston generally sets one up every spring. I haven't taken it, but I'd bet it's worth it's weight in gold.

6. I also wanted to mention that sometimes I don't use the perfect safety set up. There are many reasons, but the top are efficient river running and confidence in a drop. Just make sure to analyze the drops and realize that you are making a conscious decision to not set safety, instead of a lazy decision.

I love to run the shit and I love to see other people run the shit - I work on safety to ensure that continues for all of us for a long time. Realize though that nothing is ever guarenteed, especially in the shit.
Joe


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## jmack (Jun 3, 2004)

In the spirit of constructive criticism, I'd like to offer some some suggestions about what they should have done to prevent this from becoming such a shitshow (other than not throwing your paddle):

1. Have someone on shore who can see the rapid and the boaters waiting in the eddy above. This would avoid the two boaters in the hole situation. I personally hate waiting in the eddy above a drop with no idea whether the person in front of me is clear. It looks like they had plenty of people to do this.

2. They needed to think in advance about where to be with a rope. There is more to setting safety than just being in the general vicinity with a rope. You need to be in the best place to help given what the most likely hazard is. Here, the hazard was a sticky hole. So the person with the rope needs to be downstream so they can pull a swimmer out of the hole.

3. They need to be more patient with their ropes. As soon as they got their rope out, they started throwing them around like it was the goddamn circus. A throw rope doe no good if the swimmer does not grab it. The swimmer did surface periodically. Wait until the swimmer surfaces on the boil line tothrow the rope and there is a much better chance he will grab it. Get eye contact if possible. One good throw is better than several bad ones.

4. To touch on the possibility of a strong swimmer rescue that Joe mentioned, this was perfect situation for it and they were in the wrong place. To do a strong swimmer rescue, you need two people downstream. One of them needs to have a rescue vest and the other needs good footing because he will [hopefully] be pulling two people out of the hole.

I'm sure I missed something- chime in guys.

Josh


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## andy (Oct 13, 2003)

Just to make it clear: My previous comments were about the link I posted, not the Green River knockout.

Those guys on the Green performed like pro's and should be commended.

The guys in the link I posted definitely did not.


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## 217 (Oct 27, 2003)

i knew exactly which video this was just by the posts here because its definitely memorable

although i agree with the above posts about the things these guys did incorrectly, some things to consider:

throwing the paddle- who the f knows, but with progression of the sport people will be pushing the limits in ways much like this. to think that certain things weren't thought boatable but are now being done on a regular basis. a few more flash over substance instances include wavewheels over drops, hand paddles, ect.

second boat over the drop- he is not the same boat that is sitting in the eddy above when the video starts, so we don't know the whole story. he may not have even been with their crew, we don't know.

safety setup- at least two boats in the water below the drop, multiple boaters on the shore above the drop, and at least two people on the shore below. the guy repeling over the side had a rope and had a nice angle to pull someone into the eddy horizontally (although no footing?!?!?!?!), which can be easier then pulling someone out of a hole downstream. definitely not perfect but most safety setups aren't.

boaters heading to the hole- at least they are acting, much like giving cpr, effort can be better than nothing. also, i've seen at least five swimmers rescued just the same way out of tough rapids and all were successful. this one however wasn't, so i'm not sure exactly what to make of it. 

live bait attempt- not that strange to enter the water from above but i would think the guy connected on the shore needs to be downstream. 

this was a cluster f^ck. but many of the serious rescue attempts i've seen, have been. not all, in fact i remember one on the Upper A that was carried out nearly perfect. A lady who was boating with us was incredible in the clutch. while the rescue was perfect, the safety set-up was not there. N.Hinds and crew had stopped for lunch and had their throw ropes out of their boats and on them. thank god.

so it is possible to "style" a rescue but the fact is that most are messy and the best we can do is look at both the good and the bad and try to train ourselves so that when the sh!t hits the fan, we do the best we can


that is all

-aaron


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## 217 (Oct 27, 2003)

oh and just to play devils advocate a little more,

major issues with the green race rescue: 

grabbing someone who is out-cold by the helmet and pulling on them is horrible and the guys standing up in the water are certainly suspect to getting themselves in trouble. 
but hella fast reaction and very good safety set-up!!


-aaron


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## Curtis_Elwood (Apr 18, 2005)

tuberslickmysweatyballs said:


> holy shit.
> 
> i think watching a guy with a head injury/possible neck injury get pulled in by his helmet was as scary as him going over the falls like he did.
> 
> control the adrenaline and think clearly, people. fuck.


Good observation, but remember your ABC's. A = Airway. Stabilizing the spine does no good for a victim with no airway. The first guy was having trouble getting Nick rolled over and the second grabbed for whatever he could to get him rolled over. Sometimes, you just have to get them up and worry about stabilization later. Someone in the safety team later told Nick to keep his head still, though, hands should have been on his head. Reading the whole story and talking to Nick, he wanted to keep boating. Having a cooperative victim is necessary if you're going to stabilize their spine.


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## stof (Aug 28, 2006)

I love it. The guy goes down Gorilla upside down, gets knocked unconscious, and when he gains consciousness, he wants to continue the race. 

It's a fine line between bravery and stupidity. 

Yea, I was uncomfortable with the safety guy grabbing the helmet, but getting his mouth/nose above water was a priority. 


Why did he go over Gorilla upsidedown anyway?


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## Curtis_Elwood (Apr 18, 2005)

Here's what Nick wrote about the crash:

http://boatertalk.com/forum/BoaterTalk/1136377

Basically, he was too far left going into the Notch and was rolled left. If you're never been on the Green Narrows, the lead-in to Gorilla is very complex and the Notch is super squirrly and causes the majority of crashes there. There is very little space between the Notch and the Flume (the main drop).

I paddled with Nick for the first time a week before the race on the Green. (He was racing when he crashed, BTW) He's a pretty gung-ho guy, but was safe when we boated. I won't speculate too much on how it all went down b/c I wasn't there and I wasn't knocked out, but I've had to roll up an unconscious paddler before and he was't the most friendly person in the world. When you get a concussion, you're not always able to think clearly/rationally. 

There's definitely a lot to be learned from this accident. Particularly, acting quickly and decisively can save someone's ass. On any other day on the Green, he may have washed down a bunch of more class V before he got help. No matter how many times you run a drop cleanly, it's always a good idea to set proper safefy.


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## heliodorus04 (May 31, 2005)

> Upon landing I was knocked unconscious, yet not ejected from my boat.* (So technically I didn't swim!) *I hit the back of my head hard. This scraped, scratched and knocked lose the internal foaming, yet didn't break the helmet as many believed. Thanks Grateful Heads!!! I broke three ribs, punctured my lung, which later collapsed and had to be re-inflated, cracked the upper bridge of my nose causing a sloppy red mess, dislocated my right clavicle, and really just got the whole life inside of me jingled up


But technically, he didn't swim...
Rock on brother...


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## JCKeck1 (Oct 28, 2003)

I think it was fine the way he was pulled out of the water, but I only watched the video once. Before c-spine precautions comes scene safety and in this case preventing Nick from going over class V Scream Machine (15 feet downstream for those who haven't been there) was more important than airway or c-spine. Once he's out of the water, then worry about airway and c-spine in the same thought. I know everyone is taught airway first in ABCs, but a great paramedic I know once said, "I don't really care to resusitate someone if I've made them a quad first." Excellent rescue and much better than the one in the other video.


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## Kimy (Jul 1, 2005)

Anybody know where beatdown num two was? The UCLA Californians have finally found it, and are curious.


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## Gary E (Oct 27, 2003)

Nice Job Toby. 

Quick thinking to jump in and go after the boat. Toby is a great,experienced paddler, and one, any one of you people would beg to have watching your ass on any type of water. An unconcious paddler floating beyond speed trap is dead, PERIOD! 

Don't critique a person making split second decision's in a envoirnment thats not a floor in someones office showing you how text book shit is suppose to happen. I doubt nick, even as dumb as he sounds cares how his life was saved and would gladly take the chance of getting his head ripped off in the same situation a second time.

Gary

ps- Nick sounds like a dumbass in his article. Second time running gorilla and in a race? Didn't swim? Yeah you died and came back to life. Because a serious, smart, veteran class 5 paddler made a split second decision to jump into class 5 after a boat he thought you still might be in.


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## Jiberish (Oct 20, 2003)

My friend got a speeding ticket going down floyd hill, when he asked why he was pulled over and not the people going around him they said "the kayaks were an easy target".

that sucks
BG


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## gh (Oct 13, 2003)

Gary, agreed. I would be happy to have Toby or Tommy look out for me. 

My understanding is that the first thing he said after he came to was that he wanted to finish the race. Too funny.


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## Caspian (Oct 14, 2003)

Gary E said:


> An unconcious paddler floating beyond speed trap is dead, PERIOD!


Back in '04 I watched a friend get surfed in Scream Machine at 150% and he ended up swimming out. Based on the hits he took just going over Nies' Pieces, I would say that is absolutely the case. (FYI don't angle right at that level!) Also almost watched a guy go over Scream Machine upside down after going over the bars at Gorilla. I thought we were about to start chasing a corpse, but he rolled up. Turned out he had the paddle ripped out of one hand somewhere in there IIRC. 

(Mike if you're reading, it was Putz and 8-Ball.)


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## benrodda (Mar 27, 2004)

ok so maybe I am kind of a sick dude... But umm how about some people posting more videos of people getting beat down. Its kind of funny, makes me feel good about myself, and and it gives all of the safety patrolers something to talk about. 

So um send us some more beat down videos!
ben


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