# Shoshone Access Closed April 16th to May 26th



## GearDog

Just replying so I can be auto-alerted to updates.

Thanks, Lenny.


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## Gremlin

Ugh. Turning around at Hanging lake to head west and access Grizzly will not be fun on a crowded weekend. I'm predicting a mess in that parking lot.


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## JDHOG72

Only option is to run death!


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## LeftOfCenter

*Shoshone Closures - Public Meeting in Glenwood Spgs 4/7 from 4-6 pm*

I know this is last minute, but I am counting on the fact that none of you get anything done at work besides checking the 'buzz so here goes:

CDOT has an initial plan to close all boater and public access to the Shoshone put-in in Glenwood Springs Canyon from next week to the end of May for I-70 construction. While you would be welcome to walk up from Grizzly (which you will only be able to access from Westbound lanes), for those of us with big fat rafts that is a bit more of a logistical nightmare.

If you can, come to the Glenwood Springs Rec Center today (Thursday the 7th) to meet with CDOT and explain our concerns. It sounds like they are amenable to the idea of finding a compromise and were unaware of the difficulties this would cause such a large and vocal community. But we do need to be large and vocal.

Here is the Post Independent Article for more info: Glenwood Canyon concrete paving to begin April 16, continue through June | PostIndependent.com


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## LeftOfCenter

Oh, come to the Rec Center from 4-6 PM. That helps.


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## Chaser

Save Our Ramp!!! Lets come up with a workable solution. We especially need outfitters and guides, they will have the most pull.


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## raftus

From the article:



> Those with questions or concerns about the project may also call Tom Newland, public information manager for the project, at (970) 773-3457.


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## pinemnky13

It's an evil plot by the kayakers to turn us rafters into kayakers!


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## LeftOfCenter

raftus said:


> From the article:


Yes! Thank you for highlighting that. For those of you who can't make it to the meeting, you can call with concerns or questions. We'll post the results of the talk tonight.


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## GearDog

Just a post so that I can receive auto-updates to this thread.

Thanks, Lenny.


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## LeftOfCenter

Well. Here's the skinny that I gained from the meeting:

The dates for full Shoshone closure (for everyone, including commercial) are from April 18-June 1st. No one goes in or out but powerplant workers at 6 AM.

Once that phase is finished, June is only open to commercial companies. Let me say that again, no private boaters are allowed on Shoshone until early July.

So in the month of June, CDOT somehow plans to allow all the commercial trips in through the construction, but no private boaters at all.

A gray area was brought up that what if the private boaters hire a commercial shuttle company and have all their shit ready to drop in the river and go? They might have said yes-ish to that. Not entirely sure.

My question is how are they going to tell? Is the sign guy going to get to pull a Gandalf all summer? You Shall Not Pass! (Sorry)
Or are all the privates going to be attaching themselves to commercial trips like little, highly skilled, slightly drunk parasites?

So the wait now is for the official posting from CDOT of how they will determine who is legit for the run and who isn't. I encouraged them to be as black and white (and public) about that as possible 'cause otherwise we will clog up the whole interstate arguing with them at the exit ramp.

That is the very official (and apparently non-negotiable) word. 

Feel free to call Tom Newland at 970-773-4357. He is the 'public information manager' for the project. He seems quite friendly. The CDOT guy just glared at me most of the time.

So, happy Shoshone poaching!


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## Chaser

Bum rushin, sweat pourin, adrenaline induced, beer driven, Shoshone poachin time.


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## Gremlin

I requested they keep semis out of Grizzly and instate traffic control at both Hanging Lake and Grizzly during the duration of the project. They seemed open to that. 

It may be worthwhile to work with the Forest Service to create a schedule of times for the commercial groups to launch so we can work around them. In the past I have only received vague answers from the outfitters themselves.


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## Gremlin

How 'bout we all get door magnets saying, "Buzzards Boating Commercial Rafting" and caravan to Shoshone!


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## smurf

Can boaters put in at Hanging Lake and paddle Barrel through Shoshone during construction?


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## Gremlin

yes, feel free.


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## mustloverafting

Is this the final say? Why isn't there more public comment? How was the turnout to the meeting? I should be looking more at the Buzz at work!


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## chepora

One highly skilled, slightly drunk parasite ready for a host right here!!!


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## smurf

LeftOfCenter said:


> Well. Here's the skinny that I gained from the meeting:
> 
> The dates for full Shoshone closure (for everyone, including commercial) are from April 18-June 1st. No one goes in or out but powerplant workers at 6 AM.
> 
> Once that phase is finished, June is only open to commercial companies. *Let me say that again, no private boaters are allowed on Shoshone until early July.*
> 
> So in the month of June, CDOT somehow plans to allow all the commercial trips in through the construction, *but no private boaters at all.*"
> 
> 
> 
> Just a clarification question - When you say no private boaters are allowed *"on"* Shoshone, are you meaning we cannot park *at* Shoshone, or is the river closed to private boaters until July?


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## Gremlin

mustloverafting said:


> Is this the final say? Why isn't there more public comment? How was the turnout to the meeting? I should be looking more at the Buzz at work!


I asked that question and was told that by the time a contract has been written there is not much that can be changed. When I asked about the lack of public comment, they said they heard from the commercial companies and the general public was also invited but apparently didn't "show up" because it was the off-season and we weren't paying attention.


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## Gremlin

Just a clarification question - When you say no private boaters are allowed *"on"* Shoshone, are you meaning we cannot park *at* Shoshone, or is the river closed to private boaters until July?[/QUOTE]

The bike path will be open. The river will be open. The Interstate access to Shoshone will be closed to private users


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## pinemnky13

MOTHERFUCKERS!!!!!!! I am going to pay for a business license that will be in the name of Rafting galore and load up my trailer and van full of boats and people who want to run it.
If that doesnt work I'm gonna hire day laborers to help me carry my boat to the put in and tip them with Tecate after helping me carry my boat down to the put in. Then I am going to have em ride through Shoshone and get em back to where i got em.
Looks like my new rubber is going to have get baptized on the roaring fork to new castle run.
admins please feel free to put in colorful graphics for the first word in this post cause I am going to be saying it all night anyway


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## merritrd

Who are the Glenwood area Legislators? Give them a call and see if they can apply some pressure


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## Paco

This whole thing seems pretty poorly thought out. Maybe if they get a ton of calls they'll rethink.
I wonder who else might have some pull?
Town of GWS?
Chamber of commerce?

Bombard 'em with calls tomorrow.


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## LeftOfCenter

First of all: How 'bout we all get door magnets saying, "Buzzards Boating Commercial Rafting" and caravan to Shoshone!
Yes!

And yeah, sorry, it is only the ramp that is closed. I didn't mean to imply that anyone can bar access to the river completely...not yet.

As far as commercial schedules, that was one of the notes that I left for them- talk to the companies and figure out what their put in times will be and how many and if people are there at the right time, could they slide through, etc. 

But I didn't really get the impression that these fine gentlemen had ANY experience with either commercial or private boating. It is a world mysterious to them, and I don't think that they could really figure out what we were all so upset about. So keep that in mind if you do call- these guys do not have the same background and passion, so they would not respond well to buzzword-filled rants or accusations.

Folks and gentlemen, this is already in a contract, if someone finds a person that can put that much pressure on CDOT, that would be great, and I'm not saying don't try, but they've run their tests on 'traffic volume' and this is the supposed most ideal time for it.

On a rather more depressing note, those dates are their intended dates of completion. Consider a moment, if you will, any construction endeavor in which you may or may not have been involved. Did all the parts show up on schedule? Were they the right parts? Did overly optimistic cost estimates affect the progress? Did the weather hold? Did the union strike? 
I guess I'm just trying to say that even those dates might not actually happen. They will do their best because they do feel the pressure from Gwood, but, um, they might not make it. There is only an incentive to the contractor for every day BEFORE JULY 4TH that he/she is completed........

So those of us who tend hole up in town on our days off for the summer may have to take a few notes from the butt crack of dawn hike-to creekers and go somewhere...else?
Fortunately, we do live in a state with many excellent stretches of rivers, and at highwater, even rafters can do them!

So yeah, this sucks for casual weekend booze cruises, but maybe it's an opportunity as well....

Yeah...sorry, that was WAY too positive...


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## Gremlin

I agree that they don't have a clue what impact this will have on rafters. If the shuttle time is longer, we sit waiting longer at the put-in, further clogging things up. Maybe more people will opt to shuttle at the end, meaning more trailers at Grizzly. That is why I asked them to keep semis out. (They said they would not stage any equipment at Grizzly.) It is going to be a mess at Hanging Lake as well,with school buses pulling trailers through a parking lot full of oblivious tourists. I told them they need to be especially cognizant of the busy weekends and the construction focused contractor spokesman assured me they would be working weekends. They just want to be isolated from the public to get the project done.


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## Paco

I don't think the problem is longer shuttles. The problem is NO acess to the Shoshone Ramp for all of May and June. How many times are you going to carry your boat (raft or kayak) all the way from Grizzly?

I just got off the Phone w/ Tom -(970) 773-3457-- and he seemed quite reasonable, but I definitely got the impression that the more folks he hears from, the more they'll try to mitigate the impacts (such as opening it up on weekends.)

Even if you don't use Shoshone much, you should call, b/c all those boaters have to go somewhere, and they'll be crowding your boat ramp.


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## jasons

*Walk*

I have walked up from Grizzly Creek to the top of Upper Death 4 times this year. It only takes 45 minutes and is the easiest walk with a boat for 45 minutes you can get. The bike path is now closed. I simply walked around the gate. When you get to Shashone, you have to climb around a chain link fence as of yesterday. The week before it was wide open. The climb around the fence is kind of sketchy. 

I'm sure one of these days I will get caught and given a ticket, but quite frankly this is another example of the government protecting one group (bikers on the bike path) and ignoring the rest of us. 

Bet the cops watch me run the rapids before flagging me down to write the ticket.

Anyone want to bring a new pad lock and bolt cutters to the chain link fence that would be sweet. Cut the old lock, put our own on, hang the key from the railing on a 10 foot string. Bet no one will ever notice. When it comes time to open it they will probably think they just have the wrong key and cut the lock off.


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## muttster

Hey Paco... Can you provide some info on Tom, who does he work for? Does he have enough pull to help, or is he a low level human mail box just there to take calls?


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## Andy H.

ADMIN note: Shoshone threads merged.


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## Paco

muttster said:


> Hey Paco... Can you provide some info on Tom, who does he work for? Does he have enough pull to help, or is he a low level human mail box just there to take calls?


I think he's the go-between between CDOT and the contractor.

He seemed to have some pull, and was talking about potential solutions (such as opening up on weekends.) 

Maybe someone who went to the meeting could chime in.


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## Gremlin

this is the email I received from Tom Newland of Newland Project Resouces, Inc:

To All:

Thank you for attending the Open House Thursday night. I would like to summarize the issues you all brought up and tell you how we (the project team) will try to address your concerns.

Issues:

The main issue we heard was that the closure of the Shoshone Power Plant Exit (Exit 121) has a large impact on your ability to access the Colorado River for kayaking and rafting. You explained that the Shoshone exit is extremely popular during the time when the project is taking place, primarily because it is the only stretch of river in the general area of Glenwood Springs that has adequate and enjoyable water volumes at this time of year. 

I think that you all understood the reasons why CDOT has to close this exit to public access for the duration of the project. To summarize these reasons are:

·All traffic is being rerouted to the westbound lanes from No Name to the Hanging Lake Exit. Because the eastbound and westbound lanes are separated vertically in the canyon, these locations are the only place to divert eastbound traffic on to and off of the westbound lanes;
·Although access to No Name (Exit 119), Grizzly Creek (Exit 121) and Hanging Lake (Exit 125) will remain open for westbound traffic, the Shoshone exit does not have a westbound off-ramp and therefore cannot be accessed from the westbound travel lane;
·Work on the section of eastbound lanes between Grizzly Creek and Shoshone will be concluded by the beginning of June and CDOT will allow commercial rafting and kayaking companies to access Shoshone from Grizzly Creek once the work is done. However, the general public will not be allowed to access Shoshone until the project is complete, primarily due to worksite safety concerns. Lindsay, who was at the public open house, brought up some good points about this particular issue. Her comments are attached to this email for your review.
·This time of year has the lowest traffic volumes on I-70 in the Glenwood Canyon. Therefore, this period of time is the safest time to conduct this project from a traffic management standpoint. 

Another issue raised was that with the closure of Shoshone, Grizzly Creek will likely experience a significant increase in rafting and kayak user access. In fact, the available parking spaces at Grizzly Creek will probably fill up quickly, especially during the weekends. This parking problem will be aggravated by the parking habits of some semi-truck drivers that block several spaces when they use the rest area to take a break from driving.

Follow-up:

After the open house myself, Josh Cullen (CDOT) and James Sampson (Lawson Construction) brainstormed about these issues and how to address them. The following was decided:

·After Lawson Construction has been on the project of a few weeks, the project team will assess the access situation at Shoshone and see if there is any way that both the rafting/kayak companies and the general public can be provided access to Shoshone after June 1st. 
·CDOT will consider closing Grizzly Creek to semi-trucks during the construction period in an effort to reduce anticipated congestion there.


Thank you again for your attendance at the meeting. Please contact me if you have any questions or comments regarding this email. I will keep you updated on the project schedule and on any decisions that might be made to address the issues you have raised.

- Tom 

(Lindseys letter was not attached)


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## Paco

Bump.


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## Chaser

Tomorrow is the last day to raft shoshone unless you want to hike your boat...


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## Gremlin

Anyone gonna be there? I got a big boat and treiler an nobody to git me back up after ashuttlin.


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## shrediknite

*Shoshone Closure?*

Did the putin really get closed yesterday?


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## Chaser

Today, April 17, is the last day. I got a few fun laps in on a mini me.


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## Geezer

Just another well thought out CDOT project. Total cluster right at prime season for that section of the river.


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## SummitAP

Gremlin thanks for that. It looks like after some dialogue they are trying to accommodate as best as possible. It sucks for us, but it's better than the first plan. What else can they do?


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## pinemnky13

I think we need to build some of these in a brakdown format to hit shoshone @ highwater:

http://www.mountainbuzz.com/forums/f15/raft-wheels-29631.html


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## BoscoBoater

Oh, those fully break down.  Just need an allen wrench. I just haul it put together cause I'm lazy and I got plenty o' room on the trailer. Besides, when it comes to dodging the rafting company traffic, it pays to be ready to go as quick as you can.


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## ksmclaughlin

So when are they going to let us access shoshone? Beginning of June...or July??


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## Gremlin

Beginning of June for commercial although they won't use it until the river drops to a "safe" level. Not until July, at the earliest, for the rest of us. 

I was told they would try to allow us access sooner, but they also said they would manage traffic at Grizzly and not allow semis to exit there. So far, semis are allowed to idle all day long in the limited parking spaces.


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## ScubaSteve

Ran Shoshone today and it was surreal! Not a soul in the water. Well worth the walk from Grizzly.


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## spencerhenry

i just sent a complaint letter to CDOT. the best water in many years and they have the only access closed, government stupidity at its best. no one drives to glenwood from 2 hours away to run grizzly. and even putting in at grizzly is a pain with the detour.
i didnt believe that the state could have the only access closed, so i went to go run shoshone yesterday. man was i pissed, all the hassle just to run grizzly down? no way, even at high water grizzly down is boring. 
shoshone is a great run, but not worth disassembling my boat and packing it a mile up river for a 20 minute run.


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## LeftOfCenter

"i didnt believe that the state could have the only access closed, so i went to go run shoshone yesterday. man was i pissed, all the hassle just to run grizzly down? no way, even at high water grizzly down is boring."

Really? 

I guess that makes sense though...One would naturally assume that even though the locals who showed up to negotiate with CDOT at a public hearing over a month ago were unable to barter access, somehow the pylons would miraculously part and the sign crew would lay down the red carpet when when someone from the Front Range went through all the 'hassle' of coming up into the mountains...

But seriously- Use the 'buzz. We posted this info to help the boating community of Denveropolis make informed decisions about where to burn their fossil fuels this summer. Your decision was either completely ignorant, incredibly lazy (if you're kayaking there is no reason you couldn't hike to), or else displayed a sense of entitlement rivaled only by a few tyrannical dictators and certain blond heiresses.


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## spencerhenry

ignorant? incredibly lazy? 

screw you douche bag.

first off i am not from the front range, i have lived in the RFV for 25 years. second, you must not be able to read, i said it was not worth disassembling my boat for a 20 minute run. (not much to disassemble on a kayak). third the hassle is driving in stop and go traffic all the way to hanging lake, then doing a u- turn with a trailer and 4 door truck, then going to grizzly, launching, then trying to find a parking spot, then after the run, doing the detour to hanging lake again to go pick up the truck. fourth, i stated that no one drives 2 hours to run grizzly as a point that the area is losing revenue because the biggest water around is inaccessible. locals spend their money here whether they hit the river or not, some people come here JUST to hit shoshone, with it closed, they go somewhere else.
apparently you think that only "locals" are the ones that have any right to the river. i am local, but that is irrelevant, the local economy is driven by TOURISM, that means, for those of you in Rio Linda, boater and skiers that come here to spend their money.
so in your tiny little mind, i am a "tyannical dictator". if i had prefaced my first post with "i am from glenwood", it seems you may not have posted such a ridiculous and insulting post. 

and YES, grizzly is BORING even at high water, if it reaches 15K or so maybe i will feel differently. i have run grizzly in a canoe many times, that is the only way for me that grizzly has any excitement.
so please, keep your holier than thou, i live here and therefore am better than you attitude to yourself.

it is so ridiculous that the state has closed off the only access to the put in for the biggest water in the area during the best run off in years, that i really hoped they would make some kind of arrangement so that rafters could still get on the river. obviously i was wrong, does that make me ignorant, or lazy?


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## pinemnky13

spencerhenry said:


> i just sent a complaint letter to CDOT. the best water in many years and they have the only access closed, government stupidity at its best. no one drives to glenwood from 2 hours away to run grizzly. and even putting in at grizzly is a pain with the detour.
> i didnt believe that the state could have the only access closed, so i went to go run shoshone yesterday. man was i pissed, all the hassle just to run grizzly down? no way, even at high water grizzly down is boring.
> shoshone is a great run, but not worth disassembling my boat and packing it a mile up river for a 20 minute run.


So what part about reading it news papers and here made you think you could just pull up go down the ramp and go for it? Dude go run the Roaring Fork to New Castle or hike your boat up on a dolly. CDOT and their contractor are going to "try to get it" open but everone has to deal with it. There are other rivers to go explore. Oh and before you go why not check to see if you can access it, it'll save you your time


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## spencerhenry

checked the level on the fork lately? no thanks. when the fork comes up to runable levels, i will run it. the lower fork is not exactly my speed, i dont have a canoe anymore.

my boat is too wide to fit up the bike path anyway, that is if i had a dolly. and i am sure cdot would have a major problem if i took it up the closed highway on a dolly. it is all just mental masturbation anyway, shoshone is good, but not worth the effort to deal with the b.s.


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## Chaser

It does suck that the access was closed, people who live in the roaring fork valley are not the only ones who are "entitled" to being upset over it. Why does it matter if someone lives on the front range, that does not automatically give you a reason to be incredibly rude to them. After all tourism is the ONLY industry that keeps this town running.

So anyone that is upset about Shoshone being closed this gives us an opportunity to run some other interesting stuff at record flow. Cemetery will peak above 10,000 this year and the crystal will be huge. You will be able to float from Basalt (or higher) to New Castle (or lower) in record time. 

Maybe we start a race day! Basalt to Rifle at peak, last one there buys first round at the brewery. Who's in?


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## pinemnky13

Ran it Saturday @ 1500, I see it went up to 2000 +( the westbank down) which is still a fun level if you go. And hell then you get to run the Wave and South Canyon and if you need to kill a little more time you can float to dinosaur rock which is fun run if you hit it the right way on the right side when it gets bigger. I ran my 156r and had no issues with it and it is just going to get bigger, well if the sun stays out which it's not going to it seems. But hey the eagle is going to go off and so is the blue. I kind like not having the "shoshone to where ever sounds good" every weekend blinders on 
Yeah it sucks about the closure but now that the road is torn up


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## LeftOfCenter

That came off way harsher than I intended. I meant to go with light teasing and it did sound more like a frontal assault of the foundation of your being. My mistake.


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## pinemnky13

Chaser said:


> It does suck that the access was closed, people who live in the roaring fork valley are not the only ones who are "entitled" to being upset over it. Why does it matter if someone lives on the front range, that does not automatically give you a reason to be incredibly rude to them. After all tourism is the ONLY industry that keeps this town running.
> 
> So anyone that is upset about Shoshone being closed this gives us an opportunity to run some other interesting stuff at record flow. Cemetery will peak above 10,000 this year and the crystal will be huge. You will be able to float from Basalt (or higher) to New Castle (or lower) in record time.
> 
> Maybe we start a race day! Basalt to Rifle at peak, last one there buys first round at the brewery. Who's in?


We did it last year at peak in 4hrs, but who wants to get off the river quick lets have a who ever gets to take out 1st has to buy the 1st round but we all satr together 1/2 mile befor take out and do anything but push an oar foward, we just gotta use em for keeping us away from hazards.


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## bobbuilds

10 more days...


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## Paco

*10 more days?*

Unless something has changed, my understanding is that thet are _trying_ to let commercials through starting in June. Privates not until JULY. 

And of course the commercials won't be putting any pressure on them anytime soon, as they don't run at high water.

I personally think people coming out here trying to get on the river is great. The more rigs we have clogging the highway, asking flaggers how to get to Shosone, the better. Might wake CDOT up.


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## spencerhenry

maybe i need to buy a smaller boat to make the fork more interesting. running the lower part of the fork at current levels of under 2k is for me .... boring. even at higher levels cemetary is just too short. shoshone at 10k is AWESOME. when the fork hits runable levels from slaughterhouse down, i will forget about shoshone. right now though, the only big water around is shoshone, with NO ACCESS. 
grizzly creek down could be good if the level gets over 15k. 

anyone tried to take an atv up the bike path with a boat trailer in tow?


i stand corrected, there is access to shoshone. if you want to disassemble and deflate your boat, pack it upstream a mile, reassemble, reinflate, and deal with the detour, then there is access. i just dont see spending half a day to get a 20 minute run.


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## Andy H.

*Bump - what's the situation at Shoshone and Grizzley?*

Here's what CDOT says:




> CLOSED TO TRAFFIC70 I-70 Eastbound / Westbound Glenwood Canyon Bike Path (Milemarker 123-129)Bike path closed Grizzly Creek to Hanging Lake rest area. High water. Road closure began July 23rd, 2011 at 4:04pm.


Not very enlightening...

Thanks!

-AH


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## pinemnky13

Andy;
The bike path got trashed in between shoshone and hanging lake, actually washed away a good section. The path between grizz and shoshone is walkable/ rideable. It's at a fun level right now but I wish I could of hit it at the peak of the season.


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## Mr. Shlitzenturkey

Ran the bike shuttle on Shoshone last Sunday, nothin like a little Peddle Paddle Peddle Paddle action.


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## Andy H.

Christian & Schlitz (or anyone else that knows...), 

Thanks for the scoop on the bikepath. What's the car/trailer access like at Shoshone & Grizzley right now? I'm assuming the boat ramp at Griz will have the post blocking access after 9 am, but can you drive to Shosho? Is Griz open from both eastbound and westbound lanes of I-70?

Thanks,

-AH


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## pinemnky13

you can get to Shoshone via the usual I70 way, carry boat down the ramp as usual. Grizz is open both ways from the highway. And yes, the pole is in the hole from 9 to 4:30 everyday until labor day. 
PM me if you need a hand at take out or I'll see you at Grizz @ 11 tomorrow


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