# china rafts has anyone bought one



## rwhyman (May 23, 2005)

Since you asked, Yes, I have an opinion. Buy local. There are so great boats made in Idaho and Colorado. 
F#@k China.


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## BarryDingle (Mar 13, 2008)

You get what you pay for......


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## Snowhere (Feb 21, 2008)

Sounds like self-destruction at class II!


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## bretthaynes (Oct 12, 2009)

so what do you get if you pay so much for a hypalon raft, I found them for 1500 and less? if you say by local then why are they buying from the same guys in Korea or china. there are no real local there is just imports why not cut out the middle man other than the warranty but for the price you can buy one every year for 4yrs and still have money left over.


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## Snowhere (Feb 21, 2008)

Well, what are the stats? What denier are the floor and tubes? How many chambers and what type of valves? Where are the valves located on the boat? How is the boat assembled? You need to see if you are comparing apples to apples.


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## bretthaynes (Oct 12, 2009)

yes they are apples to apples cold hand glued same diameter tubes and baffles, removable thwarts, exterior valves, 1100 denier floor and tubes, front and rear handles and 12 exterior D-rings the only thing they dont include but can add is the quick drains. They do warranty the seams and boat too but I would have to ship back that is a down fall. so what about a NRS mexico built raft is worth 5k or more? I really dont know and the hole local thing to me is not worth 3500. can someone tell me?


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## bretthaynes (Oct 12, 2009)

rwhyman said:


> Since you asked, Yes, I have an opinion. Buy local. There are so great boats made in Idaho and Colorado.
> F#@k China.


so where are all the rafts made Korea, china, or mexico ( Home of all NRS made rafts) If there is a local I might consider I am an american boy born and bread....


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## nmalozzi (Jun 19, 2007)

bretthaynes said:


> so where are all the rafts made Korea, china, or mexico ( Home of all NRS made rafts) If there is a local I might consider I am an american boy born and bread....


u sure speak american... i bet you have a purdy mouth too.


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## Snowhere (Feb 21, 2008)

Local would be Sotar and Jack's Plastic. 1100 is for light weight rafts that usually see just fishing duty on flat rivers or relatively easy white water. 1680 tubes and 2520 floor is much more resilient to rock abuse in the tougher whitewater. To offer a boat so cheap, they are either using slave kids to assemble, cutting costs elsewhere or a combination of both. Go ahead and buy it if you want, just don't be surprised if it falls apart in short order. I have heard of people destroying the cheaper boats in just one season. I know I will get 20+ years out of my Hyside and if I sell it, I will be able to sell it for close to what I paid for it as long as I keep it in good shape. Either way I will get my monies worth with many hundreds of class IV and V boating miles. 

If you are just boating flatland Kansas, it does not matter if your raft implodes on the river. Not the sort of scenario one wants when rafting Gore!


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## bretthaynes (Oct 12, 2009)

whats up with the purdy mouth shit are you gay or something? And I am not saying I am going to buy the China shit this is a test to see what people think not there sexuality. Where are Hyside made?


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## Snowhere (Feb 21, 2008)

Not here, but that is not the point. Quality is quality, be it in boats or gear when it comes to sports like rafting/kayaking, skiing, mountaineering and ice climbing. Feel free to be the test guinea and report back in a few years on how it is. Personally I would watch the classifieds and if you look you can find good deals. I spent $2500 on a 1 yr old boat with no commercial abuse complete with electric and barrel pump, paddles, life jackets and helmets for 8. Not really stuff I will wear, but good enough for when I take friends down Browns. I watched the classifieds for 4 months and when I saw my raft I pounced. I ended up heading to the fort to pick her up and even skied Loveland on the way to make the trip more worthwhile!


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## bretthaynes (Oct 12, 2009)

no no I wasnt saying you were gay someone has allready posted crap here and have nothing to say better. I am really still shopping around and checking all the postings on craigslist and here as well. this is just a sounding to get other peoples opinion thanks for your time. happy rafting


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## nmalozzi (Jun 19, 2007)

bretthaynes said:


> no no I wasnt saying you were gay someone has allready posted crap here and have nothing to say better. I am really still shopping around and checking all the postings on craigslist and here as well. this is just a sounding to get other peoples opinion thanks for your time. happy rafting


i wish you the best of luck with whatever raft you buy, and after you buy it... please stick around. i think you'd really enjoy it around here during the season :twisted:


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## dograft83 (Jun 16, 2008)

Oh how I miss colorado head waters made right here in Parker, Colorado. They were good people and close to home


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## brendodendo (Jul 18, 2004)

Brett, You asked a question and got a response. Probably not the response you wanted. If your set on buying a cheap raft, Buy it and let us know how it turnes out and what you end up running with it. BUT, I'm of the opinion that a used name brand raft will last longer than a cheap Korean/Chinese one.


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## dgosn (Sep 8, 2006)

I bought a Maxxon cat 4 years ago, first large inflatable I had ever owned. I beat the hell out of the thing learning how to row. I put over 100 days on in the first 2 years. I then upgraded to a Jacks Plastic cat. The JP cat is way better, but cost about 3 times as much.

I know the maxxon will start to come apart at the seams, but so far it is tough as shit. It's not pretty, I get shit all the time for having from gear snobs, but now I have a boat I can loan to friends. The Maxxon made several trips down the Piedra this year, no damage to the tubes, only my frame.

I bet the Maxxon tubes have close to 200 days on them, not bad for $700 comes to about $3.50 a day. They have hit every rock from Loma and Flaming Gorge to Powell, some several times. I have been impressed with it, learned to row with it, and abused it. Although my next little cat will be a Sotar, if you are on a budget look around at chinese inflatables. I think many people dont want to admit they paid $3500 - $5000 for a boat when you can get on the water, do same rivers for 1/3 of that. Sure the hyside is a way better boat, and would be my recommendation if you can afford it. I think the best boat to own is the one you are sitting on with your beer and gear.


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## kazak4x4 (May 25, 2009)

Do you have a url link to the boat you are thinking of buying, I am curious to see the stats on it.


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## bretthaynes (Oct 12, 2009)

the url is noahyacht.cn it is there drift boats. I am wrong on the denier of the hypalon it is higher than I stated. you will have to e-mail them to get the price and stats you want they will make any boat you want I copied the stats for a 14ft nrs boat to the letter and he said it would be $1180 USD with out shipping that was $100 to $200 by sea depending on customs and duties if any. just ask them they have been really good about e-mailing right back.


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## nmalozzi (Jun 19, 2007)

WIN:
Introduction-Inflatable boats/RIB boats/Yachts/Drifting Boats/Water Pleasure/Fishing Boats/Sport Boats/Boats


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## caverdan (Aug 27, 2004)

bretthaynes said:


> the url is noahyacht.cn it is there drift boats. I am wrong on the denier of the hypalon it is higher than I stated. you will have to e-mail them to get the price and stats you want they will make any boat you want I copied the stats for a 14ft nrs boat to the letter and he said it would be $1180 USD with out shipping that was $100 to $200 by sea depending on customs and duties if any. just ask them they have been really good about e-mailing right back.


Why buy one from overseas when you can get the same thing here for about the same price (cheaper in this case) with a warranty and free shipping.:mrgreen:RM Rafts, LLC - River Supply and Rental

Funny how cheap and China are always found in the same sentence.:mrgreen::mrgreen::mrgreen:


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## Jensjustduckie (Jun 29, 2007)

caverdan said:


> Funny how cheap and China are always found in the same sentence.:mrgreen::mrgreen::mrgreen:



Funny how toxic environmental devastation and China are always found in the same sentence too. OK, maybe that's a stretch...


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## caverdan (Aug 27, 2004)

Not that much of a stretch Jen................


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## kazak4x4 (May 25, 2009)

I must say I have seen a few Saturn rafts in my party down Deso and Westwater and impressed with their performance. My friends have 3 of their rafts and pretty happy with them. Can't beat the price either.


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## caverdan (Aug 27, 2004)

I got to check out a Saturn over Memorial Day Weekend. A group camped with us at Mee Canyon the first night. One of the guys had one on the other trip. He loved it and he got on the water for *Chinese cheap*. From what I saw...it looked pretty solid as long as you keep it away from sharp sticks and rocks and such......I'd run it down West Water.......I'm sure I could flip it as good as any other boat I've had through Skull.  It would be a lot easier to turn over than a fully loaded Avon. :mrgreen::mrgreen::mrgreen: 

_( the nice thing about being a gear boat for a bunch of people....like kayakers......is you have lots of help getting that thing unflipped......I've seen it take between 4 and 7 people to reflip a loaded 14' Avon.)_


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## bretthaynes (Oct 12, 2009)

to RM rafts I am considering buy one from you but it is not cheaper or any diff. The same raft from china is only $650 or $700 shipped to KC and any color of my choosing. and not just standard colors either. the hypalon is about the same price as your PVC and there is a warranty too. i am not saying your rafts are bad I am really intrested and think you have a good product.


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## bretthaynes (Oct 12, 2009)

here is the color choices given to me to choose from. There are also two pics of the raft design and color choices I have made. From Noah Yacht.


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## Skyman (Jun 26, 2006)

I don't think one can just assume that just because it came from China, that it is crap. There are many, many quality products being produced in China and around the world. Its all about quality control. Also, if it is a legitimate company, the employees are happy making a few bucks a day. It can go a long way in their economy. The boat looks like it would be a nice boat.

Skyman


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## cemartin (Oct 11, 2003)

WAKE UP AMERICA!!!!


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## tomrefried (Oct 12, 2003)

Skyman said:


> I don't think one can just assume that just because it came from China, that it is crap. There are many, many quality products being produced in China and around the world. Its all about quality control. Also, if it is a legitimate company, the employees are happy making a few bucks a day. It can go a long way in their economy. The boat looks like it would be a nice boat.
> 
> Skyman


 Can you name a few high quality products from China? I'm drawing a blank trying to think of some. 
I know Arcteryx has been making gear over there lately but there is a definite difference in the Chinese made stuff and the stuff made in Vancouver.


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## cemartin (Oct 11, 2003)

*WAKE UP AMERICA!*

WAKE UP AMERICA!!!! Is trading with China "Fair Trade"? Not in the slightest! Last year's trade deficit was $180 billion dollars with China (to clarify that is 180 thousand millions just in one year). By the way... it's been increasing substantially every year. In order to boast these massive trade deficits, we barrow money in the form of government T-bills from the Chinese once again. Thanks to horrible trade practices and an idiotic war in Iraq, we now owe the Chinese over 5 trillion dollars (or 5 thousand billions), which is a substantial portion of our national debt. 

Why we shouldn't trade with China under current circumstances:

They export products too cheap for their factories to produce to flood US and other markets to destroy local industries

Their currency is undervalued by approximately half of market value. This means that their exported goods are half as expensive as they should be in US markets (closing domestic industries) and US goods are double as expensive in Chinese markets (less incentive to buy imports in China). 

The US rightly has a set of reasonable environmental and safety standards that the Chinese don't have to adhere to making our goods more expensive than theirs. In contrast many other nations adhere to strict environmental and safety regulations.

It costs a lot of energy to transport goods from China. We should be doing everything we can to reduce our trade deficit in oil consumption which is it at $400 billion dollars annually in oil imports. 

Everyone is under the impression that we are a rich nation, when in fact we are an indebted nation with a dwindling job market and an increasing population. It's time to support our own country by making every effort to demand American products.


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## TheCanyonWren (Aug 22, 2009)

"Can you name a few high quality products from China?"

Patagonia uses factories in china as well


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## tomrefried (Oct 12, 2003)

TheCanyonWren said:


> "Can you name a few high quality products from China?"
> 
> Patagonia uses factories in china as well


 I think Patagonia has gone way down hill in the last 10 years, I still have my 25 year old hardshell and it's still waterproof, I can't see thier new stuff lasting like that. I haven't bought anything from them in quite a while, Your just paying for the name and the little tag.


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## craporadon (Feb 27, 2006)

*K2, Marmot, Black Diamond*

When K2 moved production to China they claim their quality went up and their returns actually went down something like 50%. Black Diamond makes a large portion of their products in China. Like the other guy said, its about quality control. If its a quality company like K2, Black Diamond, KEEN, Marmot, Chaco and Patagonia, their stuff is quality regardless of the country it was made in. You can make crappy products in the US, Detroit(Ford-Found On Road Dead) or in Asia. A Toyota made in Japan, China or the US is better than a Ford made in Japan, China or the US. It seems to be more about the quality of the brand and the company than the place of manufacture.

On your raft, if it is from a brand you trust, then it will be quality whether its manufactured in the US, Mexico or Asia. If it's not you can return it. If you don't know and trust the brand, then it may suck whether its made in the US, Mexico or Asia and you may not be able to return it.

With Patagonia you know you can trust the Brand. If you do have a problem with anything you send it in and get a new one or refund right away. Quality Outdoor Brands mostly stand behind their products and when making a purchase decision, that is what matters. I have used a chinese made Marmot tent for 10 years. It has worked awesome on many trips, through the years, the fabric tore and poles got bent. I just sent it in and got it back fully repaired and almost new. 

Buy brands you trust and you will be happy, not the cheapest you can find.


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## caverdan (Aug 27, 2004)

What do they call a good fishing boat in China.........





































Quality Cheap Chinese Junk :mrgreen::mrgreen::mrgreen::mrgreen::mrgreen:


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## caverdan (Aug 27, 2004)

Brett.......If you can get that boat in Hypalon........I'd say go for it. Quality must be seen.....not heard.


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## Porkchop (Sep 19, 2007)

"Everyone is under the impression that we are a rich nation, when in fact we are an indebted nation with a dwindling job market and an increasing population. It's time to support our own country by making every effort to demand American products."

so is it my fault for buying "fill in the blank" made in china to have fun or is it the american manufacture's fault for having "fill in the blank" made in china to make more money?


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## tomrefried (Oct 12, 2003)

Porkchop said:


> "Everyone is under the impression that we are a rich nation, when in fact we are an indebted nation with a dwindling job market and an increasing population. It's time to support our own country by making every effort to demand American products."
> 
> so is it my fault for buying "fill in the blank" made in china to have fun or is it the american manufacture's fault for having "fill in the blank" made in china to make more money?


Your telling the greedy bastard that it's ok to send jobs over to china as long as you can get a cheap product.


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## td (Apr 7, 2005)

craporadon said:


> When K2 moved production to China they claim their quality went up and their returns actually went down something like 50%. Black Diamond makes a large portion of their products in China. Like the other guy said, its about quality control. If its a quality company like K2, Black Diamond, KEEN, Marmot, Chaco and Patagonia, their stuff is quality regardless of the country it was made in. You can make crappy products in the US, Detroit(Ford-Found On Road Dead) or in Asia. A Toyota made in Japan, China or the US is better than a Ford made in Japan, China or the US. It seems to be more about the quality of the brand and the company than the place of manufacture.


I don't buy K2 skis anymore because the first pair I bought made in china was vastly inferior to the pre-chinese K2's, and the BD skis I bought last year are no where near as good as the BD skis that came out of the Austrian factory. That being said, just about everything is made in china these days and some of it is high quality if the company that orders it spends enough time overseeing the factories they subcontract the production to. It's almost impossible to not buy anything made in China, but when you are buying it, you usually support the negative economic, environmental, and human rights issues listed in previous posts.


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## Jensjustduckie (Jun 29, 2007)

Icelantic Ski's and Neversummer Boards are both made in Denver and aren't going to cost you a grand like some of the other high end stuff made today. 

Why can't more companies manufacture in the U.S. and still manage to make a profit?


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## bretthaynes (Oct 12, 2009)

did anyone see NRS face book pictures of the boy in the balloon(box) in CO funny shit


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