# Creeker question



## ktkayaks (Oct 4, 2004)

Ok this spring I wanna do some creeking. Im starting to browse at boats and am torn between a big water river runner (LL LilJoe) or diving in with a true creek boat(Pyranna M3 or? ) Im a smaller boater(@140 )looking for a responsive boat to get the job done...doubt Ill be doing alot of gnar Class 5 stuff just 4/5 stuff. Any suggestions or comments of runnning a river boat as a creeker or advise in general on good starter creeker runs would be very helpful. Good on the Numbers in a playboat looking towards Piedra/Animas and whatever else?! COME ON SPRING!!


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## gh (Oct 13, 2003)

Based on people I know that are close to your size and weight I would think the Java would be good if you want something with a displacement hull. Several people have told me that it is a great boat if you can find one. No personal experience but I trust the people that liked em.


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## badkins (Oct 30, 2003)

The Prijon Creeker 225 is a good boat for your size.


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## mrekid (May 13, 2004)

To creek or not to creek, that is the question? When I began boating everything was a tweener. Today boats have become so specific it is difficult to know what to buy, partticularly if you dont have years of experience under your belt. I believe you need to ask yourself a fundamental question, do you want to run the s&[email protected] I ask this because you will not enjoy paddling a creek boat unless you are running creeks. generaly they dont surf or play well. So if your intention is to progress to running rivers at a class 4+ to 5 level get a creek boat and hold on cause it gonna be a bumpy ride. On the other hand if your intention is to run primarily class 4 to 5- and you are more interested in finding the good surfing waves in gore rather than running the infinite number of unique lines to be had, go with the tweener. Simply put buy a boat for what you aspire to paddle, if you arent interested in creekin dont get a creek boat. 
Good Luck, Dano


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## bowen (Feb 10, 2004)

For your size I'd look at these in creekers:

Jefe (maybe a bit longer than your used too but paddles really easy)
M3 233 (classic design, smaller package, great ckeeker)
prijon creeker (maybe your best overall option as badkins says)

river runner:

Lil Joe
Diesel 65
new Pyranha "Burn", new H3, out this spring


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## ktkayaks (Oct 4, 2004)

*Hmm*

I want to creek, waterfalls the whole nine yards. Actually have done Mx waterfalls(@20ft) in a Siren. Shh dont tell the siren it wasnt supposed to run that stuff. Im just having a hard time giving up my edge and moving to what I am envisioning as a barge. So... I need to go volume, boofability, and all that makes a creeker and leave a playboat a playboat...huh! Be the log!


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## Schizzle (Mar 26, 2004)

Demo a Prijon Cross, too. More edgy, but faster than most creekers. A lot of the class 4 rivers/creeks in CO are not really creeks in the sense that you're not skittering off boulders and scraping down slides. For the Animas/Piedra/Encampment/Pine Creek and Clear Creek of the Ark, I think that holding a line and having speed to punch holes is more important than resurfacing.


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## wildh2o (Jun 21, 2005)

You could also try the Fluid Solo S. I am 130 lbs and kayak class IV+ V regularly. They are changing the outfitting this year which will make it better. Several of my friends have also been in a demo We all like it. Fast, easy to roll, predictable, boofs well, handles great in big water. (North Fork of the Payette) I also paddle a Pyranha H2 245


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## ScottBarnes (Feb 7, 2006)

*modern creekers with speed*

you can get a little bit of speed out of some of the modern creekers.
try the medium Solo instead of the smallest one. You're big enough to handle it. 

Also, my best recommendation would be a DragoRossi Mafia
It is the best balance between speed and manueverablility (however you spell that strange word...) It was designed with both the tight low volume stuff in Europe in mind, as well as the big water creeking of Quebec. So it is truely a balanced machine. (and the price just went down a bit I think)



The LLGUS is great for big water, but just doesn't turn as well as others. It is made to "point and shoot" (relative to it's larger size)

Don't go for a compromise boat like the Hoss or Diesel. Get a dedicated creek boat so that you are all set up for creeking. You can't have it all (regarless of what the spin doctors say). The "do everything" boats do nothing well. They don't surf as good as a playboat. They don't creek with as much safety or ability as a creek boat. They paddle class IV, cruising, nothing special, well. 

So, do you want to sacrifice your safety and handling ability when creeking?
Or, do you want to sacrifice the little bit of surfing you'll get?

Get a dedicated creek boat and use it for creeking and big water. 
Get a playboat if you want to play. You'll have much more fun this way.

Think of it this way. 
You have one boat that is a compromise everything that you want to do. It does nothing well,but everything kinda acceptably. You wear it out in two years, and need another one.

OR. you have a dedicated creek boat that will give you all the perfomance you need when creeking (MAFIA), and you can grow in your confidence on things that are at the edge of your abilities, allowing you to keep growing, and having more fun. 
Also, you have a surf/playboat that just plays like a monster, and you can do more tricks, catch more waves, have more fun than you thought possible. 
You have split your river hours between two boats. So, each boat would (in theory) last 4 years, because you are only putting half of the mileage on them than if you had only one boat that did everything mediorcre and nothing well. 
The choice is yours. :wink:


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## GAtoCSU (Apr 18, 2005)

I'm 5'10 and 145lbs. Here's my take on those boats. I have paddled for a long time (since 93ish), raced slalom, and am currently being helped out by Liquid Logic for creekboating. Anyways, with that bias out of the way...

Java:

The Java was a good design in it's day but it was defiently not for me. I've spent several days in this boat on class 4->5 creeks and was not impressed at all. It's very shallow (almost felt like a slalom boat size for me) and it's defiently not fast. The outfitting is archaic and the volume is way too low for it's size.

Creeker 225:

It has a keel. Why would anyone put a keel on a small, manuverable design? Kinda defeats the purpose of having a small, slow boat.

M3: 

If you get this boat, get the 243. There is no reason that you should get the smaller version of this boat. I have spent time in both and I defiently prefer the length, speed, and volume of the larger boat over the smaller version.

Diesel:

Great boat. It's not a hardcore creeker but does that really matter? I don't think so. I would take it on any river on any day. Very similiar feel to the M3. I would take the M3 over the latter.

Jefe:

The Jefe is the best creeker that I have ever been in. I've paddled a ton of boats and fell in love within the first few strokes. The boat is sickly fast, high volume so it's going to float like crazy, the rocker in the front makes boofing and planing out easy to say the least. 

The best thing I like about the Jefe is the feel on the water. It's speed is matched with a turning radius that makes your neck snap. It paddles in a straight line if you keep the hull flat. Then, aggressively lean the boat in to the inside of a turn and wooh! it turns on a dime. I don't care how fast I'm going either. I can turn on a dime in the fastest of water. Eddy catching is fun once again!

To make a long story short, there are some boats that I would stay away from and others that will get the job done. The Jefe, in my opinion and many others, is the sickest boat on the market right now. But, if it's not for you and/or you can't find one (did you want used?) then go with the M3 or the new Salto.

Just my 2-cents. If you have any questions feel free to PM me.

Scott


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## Force (Apr 27, 2004)

Dano,

What a load of crap. Telling someone to think for themselves, shit. I'd tell this person to buy the lastest greatest creeker from the company that hooks me up so I can try to ride that gravy train as long as I can. Sounds similar to another post on playboats doesn't it.


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## GAtoCSU (Apr 18, 2005)

Force said:


> I'd tell this person to buy the lastest greatest creeker from the company that hooks me up so I can try to ride that gravy train as long as I can. Sounds similar to another post on playboats doesn't it.


Yo Force, is that last part directed at me? I disclosed my backing before I even entered into this post.


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## gh (Oct 13, 2003)

You wouldnt have to review very many posts on this topic to see that the Jefe is a well liked boat. I wonder though if the Jefe would be a little large for the person that iniated this post.


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## GAtoCSU (Apr 18, 2005)

gh said:


> You wouldnt have to review very many posts on this topic to see that the Jefe is a well liked boat. I wonder though if the Jefe would be a little large for the person that iniated this post.



I'm about his same size at 140-145 and it's sick. I know quite a few ladies that paddle it as well and love it.


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## sward (Dec 14, 2003)

I bought a Jefe last year and dropped into Treasure Ck. for it's first (2)runs and loved it. My freind (120#) boated it some and loved it.
I have no bias towards LL, they just hit the nail on the head w/ the JEFE.

Don't buy used Creek boats.

Steve.


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## paddle4life (Feb 8, 2006)

So I am 5'11" an 200 #I have paddled for > 10 years. I have spent most of my time in play boats the past few years paddling cl. III/IV stuff. I paddled Gore in a 230 and squirted all over the place. Not bragging, just qualifying. 

I'm looking at getting a creeker. I tend to like play boats that are in the mid range. For instance I'm in a space cadet now when by weight I should be in an airhead or a big wheel. I don't like the feel of the bigger boats, but we have added a child to our family and now I have to think more about safety. Is the jefe still the best boat for me? Any suggestions would be welcomed.


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## GAtoCSU (Apr 18, 2005)

paddle4life said:


> So I am 5'11" an 200 #I have paddled for > 10 years. I have spent most of my time in play boats the past few years paddling cl. III/IV stuff. I paddled Gore in a 230 and squirted all over the place. Not bragging, just qualifying.
> 
> I'm looking at getting a creeker. I tend to like play boats that are in the mid range. For instance I'm in a space cadet now when by weight I should be in an airhead or a big wheel. I don't like the feel of the bigger boats, but we have added a child to our family and now I have to think more about safety. Is the jefe still the best boat for me? Any suggestions would be welcomed.


Hey man. I know a lot of people that feel like you do. When you say you don't like the feel of a bigger boat...do you mean volume or do you mean length? On a creekboat, most people prefer a "larger" (aka more volume and length) then they would if it was a playboat. Cartwheeling on a creek is no fun. Neither is getting squirted around. So, let me know what you think and I'll see if I can point you in a decent direction.

Scott


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## paddle4life (Feb 8, 2006)

i don't like the volume and the length. But I know that I have to deal w/ this in order to get in a creek boat i was only stating that b/c it is the main opinion of boats I have had recently. I guess I want a boat that is stable yet turns well and has a good rocker. And doesn't squirt me, tough to see where you are going. I have a line on a huck but I a worried that it may not be the boat for me.


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## peterB (Nov 21, 2003)

I would definately not get a Huck at 200 lbs. I am pretty sure that Woody Calloway paddles a Jefe and he is 6'4'' 240lbs. Go on the LL forum and he will answer you quickly.

http://206.114.155.77/cgi-bin/ikonboard3/ikonboard.cgi?s=43eadaad00e5ffff;act=SF;f=1


I know lots of women who paddle the Jefe as well and like it. Go figure.

Peter


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## GAtoCSU (Apr 18, 2005)

Yeh don't go with a Huck. Even at 180 it's too small IMO.

Scott


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## paddle4life (Feb 8, 2006)

Thanks for the advice, I will take it. I also found a Paranha M:3 243 that fit well. I am looking for used boats and the Jefe is difficult to find used b/c it is so new. I think I may go with the M:3. I used to paddle paranha and feel comfortable going back to it.

TJ


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## gh (Oct 13, 2003)

Anyone have the info on the Burn? How much will it change from the H3 and does it still come in 3 sizes. Seems like this would be a boat that you would want to demo.


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## Caspian (Oct 14, 2003)

My homeboy is 5'8" 145# - he picked up a Jefe last year and he loves it. He says it saved his ass on the NF Payette more than a few times - ridiculous secondary stability. He's owned a lot of creekers and says it's the best he's had yet.

Ditto what was said about old posts on that boat - it's no secret people like it. Folks seemed to be pretty hot on the Diesel last year too. Can't wait to see the Burn.


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