# I think something is wrong with me?



## Jmannhei (Jun 25, 2009)

So I moved to North Carolina (from colorado) for the summer to do a post-bacc because I need money, not Asheville where I would otherwise be at home but Chapel Hill a primarily gated community of academic elites. I am here with some other highly motivated students who really only talk about science and graduate school. Most of them do not understand that I pretty much want to kayak all the time. I don't want to get a PH.d if it means not kayaking, I don't want to be an academic, pretty much all I want to do is kayak and mountain bike and ski sometimes on powder days. I often get derisive comments about how being passionate about kayaking and not a career is foolish and a waste of time, money, and effort. Now, don't get me wrong, I really don't care all too much because they are the ones missing out on life; but was wondering how many other boaters out there get this kind of flak about being devoted to this passion (dare I say lifestyle?)


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## glenn (May 13, 2009)

No one likes having negativity heaped on them, even if they don't fundamentally believe it. The academic world can be stimulating with young minds and bodies, fresh ideas, new research etc. It can also be a total drag with competition, elitism and single tracked thinking that can be tiresome in all avenues of life... including kayaking.

Ultimately this is a pit stop in life, not the destination so get it done and move on!


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## Ken F (Jun 23, 2004)

I used to live in Chapel Hill for about 12 years and liked it a lot. Why not get a PhD in surface water hydrology or computational fluid dynamics and combine kayaking with science. Just think of the research potential on bedrock stream flow, which would need to be field tested in a kayak.


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## Paul the Kayaker (Nov 7, 2004)

I've quit jobs to kayak/ride bikes/ski... I have a masters and a good job now but am considering quitting if I can get on a nice August river trip and guide a few hunters this fall. I have a hard time sitting behind a desk for more than a year before I loose it and need the attention of the mountains once again. It doesnt have to be a specific activity, but it has to include the mountains, at times it been the rivers, other times the trails, but mostly the rivers. Its a love affair really, that I'm not willing to keep closeted for long periods at a time. 

That being said, I am going to do my PhD as well, the juice is worth the squeeze when you become an associate professor and have summers & winters off, and spring and fall break... Stick it out man, be the weekend warrior and one day you'll be where you want to be!


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## caspermike (Mar 9, 2007)

Step 1 quit school, step 2 move to the goods, step 3 find a suger mama. Step 4 live life


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## jonny water (Oct 28, 2003)

While working on my doctorate, I paddled a bunch. You are in control of your time while you are a student and likely have more time to paddle than if you had a full-time job. The key is to do your own research and not your advisors research. That way you are in control.


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## lmyers (Jun 10, 2008)

caspermike said:


> Step 1 quit school, step 2 move to the goods, step 3 find a suger mama. Step 4 live life


Wow. I think I nailed it right on the head if those are the goals....


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## ENDOMADNESS (Jun 21, 2005)

I also went to Grad. School (Atlanta) and now live in the mtns. 

I also performed step #3 of CasperMikes requirements. However i hear about it all the time at family gatherings. Some folks are jealous and others can't believe the "opportunities" that i have turned down (huge family business back east).
I am happy and sounds like you will be also. Money is not shit without a river, a pow day and sweet singletrack nearby.


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## Paul the Kayaker (Nov 7, 2004)

"Move to the goods".... Casper? We'll settle for Bozeman... Any sugar mamas up there or do you have to go broke back style? Bring her to the race on Saturday, if she buys beers for all your friends you have a keeper!!


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## scannon (May 2, 2006)

Law school was like that too. In the end though, you're in their territory. It's not too surprising that folks in grad school in Chapel Hill are "highly motivated students who really only talk about science and graduate school." Maybe just find other folks to hang out with, cos it sounds like you're not going to change anyone's mind.

The good news is that you don't have to live their lives (thank god, right) and they don't have to live yours.

Edit: Re: your title: nothing is wrong with you and nothing is wrong with them, but you're probably going to have more fun in the long run.


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## tanderson (Mar 26, 2010)

Sounds a lot like my 20's except I was obsessed with rock climbing. Keep the stoke, but make sure to have a backup plan. Have something to fall back on when you are ready to chill a bit.


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## Andy H. (Oct 13, 2003)

If you're not passionate now about what you're studying, how do you think you'll feel in a year? Are you sure grad school is the right place for you at this stage of your life?


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## funrivers (May 14, 2008)

Got the Ph.D.. Got a nice stipend. Skied Alta, biked the Wasatch, and did trips on the MF, Main, Salt, Green every year (5) while in the program at Utah. Now I work 30 weeks a year, get to be with students, pay checks are nice--pretty good payoff!


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## LSB (Mar 23, 2004)

As long as your grades are where you want them you can tell those pencil neck nerds to fuck right off... unless theyre hot,,, if so turn them on to the good life.


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## Don (Oct 16, 2003)

*K1*

Get a really rich girlfriend,or suck it up and take one for the kayak team. Shoot past cougar Son and move right into dragon slayer mode. Find one way past her prime and one that likes to travel with her girl pals. Every trips she takes with them is one that you'll be free to kayak. Sure you might have to lotion some scale dogs, but hey you got a roof. Live the dream.


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## upshitscreek (Oct 21, 2007)

Jmannhei said:


> ......and not a career is foolish and a waste of time, money, and effort.


i remember being young and stupid like that. now i'm only type a about being type b. or at least, a careful real world, no-sugar-mama-havin' balance of the two anyway.

life's too short to just work.


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## JohnR (May 23, 2005)

I'm not sure anyone ever totally solves that problem, just the character of work and the world, plus there are many, many people in the world with a need to make themselves feel good by making others feel bad. Also, a defined benefit pension beats hell out of a rich girl friend, but it takes longer to get one.


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## carvedog (May 11, 2005)

Your description of the school sounds like a special kind of Hell. Don't drink the koolaid.


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## mdignan (Dec 26, 2010)

I live in Chapel Hill and really like it here, outside of the fact that the mountains are too far away (but manageable for day trips). I prefer to hang out in Carrboro rather than the Chapel Hill end of Franklin St. If it rains, there is some decent class III water locally, the Haw, Little, Flat and Eno. Also, Falls Dam on the Neuse if it releases over 1500 is good for park and play. Hit me up if you see any of those running and want to boat.

If you want to travel a bit further, Wilson and Watauga are both about 3 hours away. I'm planning on Wilson on Saturday if you can get out there (I'd offer a ride but I'm heading to Charlotte on Sunday and not back to Chapel Hill until Sunday night).


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## iceclimb (Apr 24, 2013)

Nothing is wrong with you. I had some similar feelings getting my MFA, although I was going part time, which made things a very different experience than the full time students. They'd talk about how I couldn't understand what it's like to have such pressure to produce. Then I'd show up at crit with as much or more work as them... and I had a full time job. 

The key for me was aligning my research with my other passions. I would say that I put as much time into caving, climbing and boating during that time as I did any other time in my life.... just made it applicable to my work. OR.. I'd bust hump for 4 days and then take 3 to go to the river. (Or vice versa... )

My wife was getting her PhD in Astrophysics at the same time, and she'd carve out time for play too. A lot of science research is based on coding now... so if you can set up 12 processors on 12 algorithms that are gonna take 4 days to run... what are ya gonna do? Set the machine up to text you if it errors and head out to paddle!


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## Otterwolf (Feb 24, 2013)

Question: What good will this Phd do ya??

Out here, you might be able to get a job in a conveinance store or something, meaning they are a dime a dozen.

The trick is securing a job that allows you to live your life.

I got lucky.
I work 2nd shift in a factory 40 hours a week, the rest of the time I'm either kayaking, free diving, or with my dog.

You can do it too - just figure out what really matters and what you need to accomplish that.
Then you go about deciding how to pay for your way of living.

Don't get me wrong, there are times I can't stand what I am doing - but I love having my mornings and early afternoons always free, not too mention 5 weeks vacation (I've been there a long long time) and just being able to live my life as I see fit.

In the end, that's all that really matters 

Enjoy !!


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## Jensjustduckie (Jun 29, 2007)

I come from a family of medical professionals, they were all highly disappointed when I dropped out of college and I caught a lot of flak. I was told my dream of becoming a massage therapist was silly by my entire family (this was in 1995, and I didn't end up going to massage school) and I was basically forced into going to regular college. I was also paying cash for my college education and the prospect of going into massive debt for my education didn't seem realistic to me so I dropped out when my cash ran out.

Despite not going to college I live debt free and make a really good living, enough that my husband doesn't have to work. Sometimes things work out well, even if you didn't listen to what everyone else told you.

Ultimately it is YOUR life, what other people think is right isn't always right for you. In fact the general theme of American life with car payments, mortgage payments, insurance payments etc. isn't actually all that fun. Sure my family is disappointed in me but I chose a different lifestyle than they did. Instead of a constant car payment I buy kayaks, rafts, SUP's etc, I spend my money on gardening not my lawn.

I drive an old car, don't have fancy stuff or buy expensive artwork, that stuff doesn't define me, my experiences do.


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## Anchorless (Aug 3, 2010)

I echo what most everyone else has said, but have one warning:

If you move anywhere out west that has decent paddling, be prepared for an extremely tough and/or limited job market. Most of the paddlers here are either doctors of some sort (some nurses), self-employed, or broke and underemployed. 

These are hard places to make a living.


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## Kendrick (Jul 8, 2010)




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## Schutzie (Feb 5, 2013)

Biggest mistake I made was to quit running and concentrate on my job

It's possible to do both, if you really want to

And take them eggheads on a trip; get em wet, drunk, and sleeping inna dirt. If they don't get infected you got the wrong friends.


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## David H (Oct 14, 2003)

Ken F said:


> I used to live in Chapel Hill for about 12 years and liked it a lot. Why not get a PhD in surface water hydrology or computational fluid dynamics and combine kayaking with science. Just think of the research potential on bedrock stream flow, which would need to be field tested in a kayak.


"computational fluid dynamics" Is that the study of fluid movement in a bootie beer


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## ranamafana (Jul 18, 2005)

There is nothing wrong with wanting to kayak all the time, regardless of your education, background, employment, etc. If you just finished your undergrad like it sounds, it's totally "right" on to take time to refresh your perspective on what you want from your life. I fell in love with kayaking when I was in college in N Cal, which led me to become a raft guide for many years. I found my "tribe" in the river, national park, mountain, climbing, powder hound, caving, firefighter, etc., outdoor seasonal work community, though my main place has always been the river. It's been great. There is nothing wrong with not being sure if you want to jump into grad school straight out of undergrad, doesn't mean you can't/won't make that decision at a future date, if it's right for you. Personally, after lots of seasons working on the river along with misc. mtn. town jobs the rest of the year, (which kept me healthy/happy, but poor,) I decided to return to school, and am in the final stretch of my doctoral studies. Grad school & outdoor fun don't have to be mutually exclusive. In the 3 years I've been at it I've managed to find time for a private Grand trip, paddling an hour or 2 (or 3 or 5) most days in the play park when there's water, backpacking, mtn biking, a road trip to Mexico, powder days, etc.. Sure I've had to miss some of the big storms, and river trips, but once I'm finished, I look forward to work that I love that will let me keep enjoying my life, with the added benefit of greater financial stability, something that is nice to have at certain point in your life. But if that's not something you're worried about right now, don't worry about it! have fun & go explore the world & paddle your butt off!


PS....you'd be better off falling in love with someone that likes the same kind of sugar(s) as you, than finding a sugar mamma


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## caspermike (Mar 9, 2007)

Kendrick said:


>


Ha that's a sad outlook! I don't know anybody like that photo. 

What good is money if you aren't living! Live first because you only get one shot so don't waste your time being unhappy. There's being smart and doing what you love and just being a total slave to society! I choose happiness anyday.

I love my wife and kayaking so you make do with what you have sometimes finding you and what you love is the answer don't let your passions go. Simple as that. Maybe I'm off in some views but you get what you get. I'd rather be living in a teepee on a UFO traveling the globe on a magnetic motor but sometimes it just doesn't work like that..


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## jmacn (Nov 20, 2010)

*Don't hesitate to call it a lifestyle*

I work for myself 6 mo out of the year. I couldn't have done it without continuing my education. My family is always wondering why I spend so much time without a job. You can't go boating if all you do is work. If boating is your work, you better spend more days private boating or you're missing out. 
All we have is right now. I'm as young today as I'll ever be.


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## Izza (Jul 20, 2005)

MDignan - I'm looking for some new boating partners after moving back to these parts after 12 years in Colorado. Can't do this Saturday but would love to check out a lot of these runs locally and in the mountains that I have never done before. Hit me up!


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## yourrealdad (May 25, 2004)

Whatever, everyone says there is nothing wrong with you, but there is. Probably a few things wrong with you, just like everyone else on this forum. Get your PhD and then enjoy life. Last thing you ever want to do is listen to Casper. His typing is proof that an education pays.


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## Gremlin (Jun 24, 2010)

I followed a path that would not make me a ton of money but seemed like it would lead to a happier life. I went to college for 3 1/2 yrs. pursuing an Art degree. I grew up in Chicago and never made it west of the Mississippi until I was 24 when I first came to Colorado, packing my Coleman lantern inside my duct-taped 48 qt. Igloo cooler and flying into Stapleton airport. I camped at Rocky Mountain National Park and said to my girlfriend (now wife) that I could see myself as the person who drives the golf-cart around and sells firewood. She looked at me funny then but later cried about having to get on the return flight. I was working in retail and my girlfriend was an "office assistant" with a Psychology degree. We decided to take a chance and move west. It has been 17 years now. We have a 15 yr. old son who has had a much better childhood than I, our jobs are stable, no debt, house will be paid for in 3 yrs., and we have been on the river over 100 hours so far this year. Rafting was not my passion when I came to Colorado, hiking was, but following a path towards happiness has worked out well for us. I still think about what I would be doing if I never left Chicago and I know the answer: the same thing as all the other people who didn't leave Chicago.


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## raymo (Aug 10, 2008)

PHD what is that??? Sounds like something un-knowing to me. Quick your crying and go out and do it all. You are not crazy, just confuse.


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## gannon_w (Jun 27, 2006)

I think I read through most posts but isn't the obvious answer to get a degree/job in outdoor education or get a job guiding etc?


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## Gremlin (Jun 24, 2010)

Nope. Just be realistic about what sacrifices you are willing to make. The first five years of my son's life, my wife and I worked alternating schedules so we didn't pay anyone to raise our kid. After kindergarden we got a break for the schoolyear and could be together each evening. During the summer we went back to altenating schedules until we could leave him home alone. We made the most of the time were together and try to do so still, though he is very independent now.


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## Tindel (Jun 30, 2011)

My advise - do what you want to do - whatever that is... 

I've got a long story that takes several turns... but the bottom line is that I did what I wanted to do, and after my wife and I married, we did what we want to do. Have we made sacrifices - yep... with each choice we have made sacrifices... but with each choice our lives have gotten better too!

Good luck - don't worry about the haters in your town - it takes all kinds, and you're your kind.


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## marko (Feb 25, 2004)

"Your heart is free, have the courage to follow it."

I followed my heart and passions instead of succumbing to the societal pressures when I was 20. I skied and kayaked until my heart was content... and my body got too abused. Now I'm 37, finally finishing my undergrad, and headed towards law school. I wouldn't change the decision I made back then for anything. 

School will always be there... a 20 something year old body with fresh knees and shoulders and a good back may not be.


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## Jmannhei (Jun 25, 2009)

marko said:


> "Your heart is free, have the courage to follow it."
> 
> I followed my heart and passions instead of succumbing to the societal pressures when I was 20. I skied and kayaked until my heart was content... and my body got too abused. Now I'm 37, finally finishing my undergrad, and headed towards law school. I wouldn't change the decision I made back then for anything.
> 
> School will always be there... a 20 something year old body with fresh knees and shoulders and a good back may not be.


I like your story, everybody keeps on telling to do it the other-way around but youth is always an asset when being careless.


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## Jmannhei (Jun 25, 2009)

Thanks everybody for your advice. I think a lot of people echoed that balance is key. It's not that I do not enjoy learning I just don't enjoy the all nighters, test, and homework. For right now I think I am going to pursue a job in engineering and just see the other side of the coin see where life takes me. One things for sure, I am not going to stop boating but a little cash would be nice maybe I can finally buy a new Creeker


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## gmmccalden (Apr 23, 2013)

I feel you buddy. I've been in the same (figurative) boat for a while now. Right now I've got a "Great" job that I keep hearing is so good for my career, but when it comes right down to it I'm not actually doing what I want to do. I work so much that I don't have time for my artwork, which my true aspiration is to be a full time artist. Then, I don't have time to play in the mountains, which is the whole reason I live here in the first place! 

It is all about a balance. You have to make sacrifices no matter which route you choose. The key is to strive for the quality of life that makes you happy, whether that be boating, teaching, biking, or supporting your family.


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## Mark the dude (Mar 18, 2005)

marko said:


> "Your heart is free, have the courage to follow it."
> 
> I followed my heart and passions instead of succumbing to the societal pressures when I was 20. I skied and kayaked until my heart was content... and my body got too abused. Now I'm 37, finally finishing my undergrad, and headed towards law school. I wouldn't change the decision I made back then for anything.
> 
> School will always be there... a 20 something year old body with fresh knees and shoulders and a good back may not be.


I'm taking kind of a similar path. I had a job that I hated when I was in my 20's and quit it to become a raft guide/do some traveling, etc with the idea that I would just live it up and have fun while my body was still able to handle it. I'm now 34 and am starting graduate school this fall. I'm probably 10 years older than most of the other students in my program, but I have absolutely no regrets. If I could go back and do it all over I wouldn't change a thing. The only bummer is that I'll be living on Oahu for the next five years and won't be able to kayak. (I haven't been getting much sympathy from people about that though )


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## deepsouthpaddler (Apr 14, 2004)

Nothing wrong with wanting to paddle and be outside. 

One bit of ancient wisdom... "There are many paths to the top of the mountain, but all see the same moon from the top".

I've met a lot of folks that dropped everything to be an outdoor vagabond when they were young. Most seem to eventually grow tired of being poor and living in the dirt, so they eventually go back to school and try to get a better job.

My take is that a good balance is a good education that gets you a decent paying job that allows you to get a job right next to good outdoor opportunities. 

I'm an engineer, and I know lots of engineers who get out an paddle all the time. Its nice to have money for gear, and big trips. Its also nice to start saving some cash when you are young instead of waiting many years to do so.

Either way, follow what you want to do.


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## Anchorless (Aug 3, 2010)

The two people I admire most in the local paddling community....

One builds standup paddleboards right next to the park and play wave, and takes epic vacations all over the world. If you could model his work/career... you'd live every day happy. 

The other is a PhD scientist who studies rivers. She gets to paddle rivers all over the world. Her work time is virtually her own. 

Both have figured out ways to make solid livings doing what they love and incorporating kayaking into their lives and work.


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## eljim (Sep 19, 2007)

deepsouthpaddler said:


> Nothing wrong with wanting to paddle and be outside.
> 
> One bit of ancient wisdom... "There are many paths to the top of the mountain, but all see the same moon from the top".
> 
> ...


Agreed, and the ladies tend to stick around with you when all the bills are paid.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

glenn said:


> Ultimately this is a pit stop in life, not the destination so get it done and move on!


I completely agree. Unless you want to spend your life in academia, realize that it's only a stepping stone on your path to the real world. Academics think their school is the whole world, but they're just big fish in a small pond. Get some of the tools you need, and then head out--and realize that you will need a lot more tools when you apply yourself to your vocation.



jonny water said:


> The key is to do your own research and not your advisors research. That way you are in control.


:lol:

Or at least have experience doing someone else's job that will directly apply in the working world. :lol:



deepsouthpaddler said:


> I'm an engineer, and I know lots of engineers who get out an paddle all the time. Its nice to have money for gear, and big trips. Its also nice to start saving some cash when you are young instead of waiting many years to do so.


Unless you're one of the lucky few who can make plenty of money doing what you love to do, find a job you like to do so you have the time and money to do what you love to do in your evenings, weekends, and vacations. Money isn't everything, but unless you're good with your hands and are very resourceful, having no money isn't an easy path to happiness, either.


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## streetdoctor (May 11, 2012)

There was a big thread over on mountainproject about my life choices a couple years ago. I was in my early 20's, making nearly six figures in a job I loved. But I was stuck in Chicago... At the time I didn't kayak but I did a lot of climbing, the closest was nearly 4 hours into wisconsin at Devils Lake. I found myself driving up there once or even twice a week to climb for the day and come home. My wife and I decided to make a change. Luckily her job was easily transferrable (RN) so we weren't poor, but I went from 90k a year to part-time @ $15/hr. I spent about a year and a half busting my ass and trying to get certs transferred and I eventually landed the same job I had in Chicago out here. I make quite a bit less than I used to but I get even more time off, and the money will come with time. Follow your heart, work hard and everything will work out.


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## Kendrick (Jul 8, 2010)

caspermike said:


> Ha that's a sad outlook! I don't know anybody like that photo.


I don't see it as a sad outlook. I see it as a positive thing. I am going to live life (the sign on the right), and the rest will fall in place. To focus directly on money/fortune etc, doesn't make me happy. Maybe for some it does, like those crazy sales people before they snap; but not for me. :-o


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## Jmannhei (Jun 25, 2009)

mdignan said:


> I live in Chapel Hill and really like it here, outside of the fact that the mountains are too far away (but manageable for day trips). I prefer to hang out in Carrboro rather than the Chapel Hill end of Franklin St. If it rains, there is some decent class III water locally, the Haw, Little, Flat and Eno. Also, Falls Dam on the Neuse if it releases over 1500 is good for park and play. Hit me up if you see any of those running and want to boat.
> 
> If you want to travel a bit further, Wilson and Watauga are both about 3 hours away. I'm planning on Wilson on Saturday if you can get out there (I'd offer a ride but I'm heading to Charlotte on Sunday and not back to Chapel Hill until Sunday night).


I'd take you up if I did not have a work engagement on sat but I think I'll go to the National Whitewater Center on Sun. Your not going there perhaps?


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