# RAFT Recommendations



## cschmidt1023 (Jan 27, 2015)

First thought was a 16 ft may be tight but should work

However you would definitely be more comfortable in an 18 ft. You can't go wrong with Avon, AIRE, Hyside, Maravia, NRS, SOTAR. 
JPW is quality and in your neck of the woods but idk if they make 18 ft rafts.

You're looking at well over 10K to get everything you need new. You may be able to find a GC worthy used rig for around 5K - and from now to early march ''tis the season to find a good deal.


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## griz (Sep 19, 2005)

Looks like cschmidt and I posted the same time but....

Well don't get anything shorter than 16ft, for sure.

Probably 18ft be best for all those people and gear.

Always buy for it's largest task. So six people out for several days. That's a damn big load for one raft on a multi day.

I'd get a Hyside Pro but the sticker price on the window might make you cry...or not.

You might want to state your budget so you don't get a bunch of useless suggestions too.


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## SpeyCatr (Aug 14, 2013)

If you got another semi competent rower (or someone with potential) you might consider 2 smaller rafts over a larger raft. Would be more money sure but you got some built in redundancy for safety and a smaller raft if only half your family wants to come out some days; lugging an 18' raft with 3 people is a tall order. A 14-15 not as much


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## lncoop (Sep 10, 2010)

SpeyCatr said:


> If you got another semi competent rower (or someone with potential) you might consider 2 smaller rafts over a larger raft. Would be more money sure but you got some built in redundancy for safety and a smaller raft if only half your family wants to come out some days; lugging an 18' raft with 3 people is a tall order. A 14-15 not as much
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Mountain Buzz


I have no boat recommendations but will say if you decide to do this The Boat People will give you a significant discount for purchasing more than one boat.


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## markhusbands (Aug 17, 2015)

Augmenting a raft with one or more IKs is something I've thought about as kids get older and more independent. Seems like 18 is pretty big for a lot of CO rivers. I'm new to it all with a family of four and a 14er, and thinking of ways to stretch the boat for longer (now hypothetical) trips. Cheers.


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## [email protected] (Jun 1, 2010)

SpeyCatr said:


> If you got another semi competent rower (or someone with potential) you might consider 2 smaller rafts over a larger raft. Would be more money sure but you got some built in redundancy for safety and a smaller raft if only half your family wants to come out some days; lugging an 18' raft with 3 people is a tall order. A 14-15 not as much
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Mountain Buzz


 I 2nd that thought. Depending on ages of family members one could be paddle raft and one gear boat


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## cschmidt1023 (Jan 27, 2015)

An 18 is big, but it's not "too big" for CO. It will be much roomier for the whole family. Sure you will want a trailer you can sink, but you will want that for a loaded 15 or 16 too (unless your family is chock full of big/burly athlete types) 

I do like the idea of a raft (15/16) plus a ducky or 2. Another good option like bighorn said would be a paddle raft and an oar rig. You could get a 10.5-12 and a 14/15 that way.


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## jwcrews (Nov 28, 2016)

Thanks for all the feedback. I really like the NRS E160, but after all accessories I may go another route. My family is young, no burly athletes, however my 5 yo just did 11 push-ups with good form. Any more advice is appreciated!!
Thanks again everyone,
jw


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## tanderson (Mar 26, 2010)

18 foot marivia bucket boat in grand junction at the consignment store called the gear junction for 750


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## royal (May 6, 2016)

Another Vote for Jacks Plastic Welding(JPW). not affiliated, just a satisfied customer. Lots of custom options and excellent honest business practices.


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## ob1coby (Jul 25, 2013)

I would echo what everyone else has said about 16-18' boats and push you more tward the 18. The number one lesson I have learned is that as soon as you get a boat you'll wish it was a couple feet longer. 18' means 6 people will be more comfortable and you will not have to stack gear as much (which will catch wind) and it is surprising how small it feels once your in the rowers seat. 

One last thing is that 18ers don't carry the resale value as well so your likely to find a great deal on one if your looking used. 

Welcome to the San Luis Valley. I'm from Alamosa and I love and miss it.


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## caverdan (Aug 27, 2004)

Personally.....I'd stay away from bail bucket boats. Get you a self bailer. Bail bucket boats and kids do not mix well....unless you like to bail the water out yourself. They are harder to resale when you find out what a pain in the ass they are. The perfect boat would be a 16'Avon. The NRS you mention would be a great choice too. Remember.... PVC boats are harder to store and don't roll up very well...if at all. Hypalon is the way to go.


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## climbdenali (Apr 2, 2006)

I used to be a hypalon only kinda guy. After spending a season guiding in plastic boats, I'm a convert. They just perform so much better, in terms of maintaining a stiff form, tracking a line, etc. Disagree that you can't roll them- I have an 18' SOTAR rolled up in the garage right now- no larger than my 200qt cooler.

I would also say that an 18' boat will go a lot more places than many people think, and is better suited to multi-day trips than 16'. 14-16' boats are what I call in between boats: They don't do the small creeks very well, and they don't haul lots of stuff very well. 

Lastly, I will say that even with an 18' boat, you will be tight with 6 of you and all your gear for a multi-day trip. I would put the comfortable capacity of an 18' boat loaded with >4 nights stuff at 4 people. You'll make it work for 6, but as those kids get bigger, I would think you'll want another boat, both for space/capacity, and for the peace and quiet!


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## CaptBiggler (May 14, 2015)

A main question would be do you plan to mostly run an oar boat on these trips? If you have paddle age kids and are mostly looking at day trips, then why not run a paddle boat?


My opinion is an 18' boat is way to big for small trips in CO. I would go the 14'-15' range which would be great as a paddle boat for the whole family, and if you do a long trip once in a while then you can get a couple IK's for the older kids.


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## jimr (Sep 8, 2007)

18' in Colorado I would say hell no. That said I do have a friend with a 16 that goes almost anywhere in the state even on low water. 

Also have a friend with 15' decked out and a family of 5. He goes on many multiday trips, usually solo (no other boats). He has a mini max for his two boys now good option. You'll also prolly want a Bimini. 

His setup- 15' aire with a sealed floor, cooler, dry box, captains box, two amo cans behind capt chair, everything bag, and has a dre table that goes over a storage bay. Plenty of room. and as other have said ik, sup or mini max as an addition. 


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## climbdenali (Apr 2, 2006)

Hey Jim,
I'm guessing the mini me came about because the 15' boat was feeling a bit tight for 5 people and gear for multi-day trips. I agree that 18' is big for most of the day trips Colorado has (Royal Gorge, Animas, Clear Creek, Poudre, etc), but that said, my 18' has been down the Royal Gorge as low as 1200cfs, Westwater as low as I've ever seen it (2000 cfs?), Dolores below 1000cfs, etc etc. Point is, unless you're looking to run very small stuff, 18' works just fine.

Now, if your goal is to run lots of day trips, I totally agree that 14' paddle boat is probably the way to go. Gear just takes up room, and it's no fun to have to play tetris with gear with kids melting down.

JW- How old are your kids? That could make a big difference, also. All little ones, and I'd lean more toward the bigger boat, run as an oar boat. Kids at/approaching old enough to be legitimate paddlers (~12), and I'd lean toward the 14'.


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## mattman (Jan 30, 2015)

tanderson said:


> 18 foot marivia bucket boat in grand junction at the consignment store called the gear junction for 750


That could make a decent rig at a great price, depending on what you plan on running, or if You find your one of the folks that prefers bucket boats. 

A 16 and a 13 sound like a great combo to me to. Personally I would love to have an NRS E-160, I run an E-140 for 2 person trips of a week or 4, and it has been a GREAT boat. Would be nice to eventually have a 16' for some extra space, or maybe even an 18. There are a lot of advantages to having a bigger boat for gear hauling when you have the river for it. They float higher, and give you more manuverability, and les draft when it's shallow, they do catch the wind a little more though.


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## SpeyCatr (Aug 14, 2013)

I just want to elaborate a bit more on why I think 2 boats is a better option that I as well as others have pointed out. 
And keep in mind we are being picky here because you're at the point where you can be picky as you haven't decided yet, any day on the river regardless is better than no day in the river and I'm stoked that you're gonna get your family out experiencing the river regardless of what you end up with. That's what it's all about. 

IMHO an 18' boat is appropriate if you had to have one boat. It's the big jack of all trades with more "JACK" than you may need most of the time for day trips. I really think 2 boats will offer you more versatility, redundancy, and safety. 

- With 2 smaller rafts/catarafts (say 2x 14's, or 1x 15-16 and 1x 12-13 or 1x 15-16 and 1x 14' cat or something like that) you have boats that can make a lot more rivers fun. Smaller/narrower rivers, lower class water, etc. 

- Even 6 average size adults lugging around an 18' unloaded raft is a tall order on anything but a straight flat walk to the river. You'll probably be restricted to rivers with better launches where you can get closer or directly to the river with a trailer. With smaller rafts it opens up less developed rivers and/or rivers with poorer quality or lacking launches or places where you would have to hand bomb the raft with your family a bit, to put in/take out. 

- The redundancy factor is a big one. Having 2 rafts in close proximity to each other over one single raft (assuming you don't raft with others regularly) offers a measure of safety should one of your kids fall in and they get separated from the raft (as the currents deeper down tend to be stronger which may push them away form the boat or make swimming back to the boat more difficult). You may want some training on safety signals, using your whistle, etc. here. There is a bit of an asterisk attached here though - where the 18' may be more beneficial is if you got into situations down the line where you wanted the sea worthiness of an 18' over a 14-15-16 say. 

- You said fishing, a smaller raft with a rowing/fishing frame with bow & stern seats for fishers (oarsman in the middle) is much nicer for the oarsman to maneuver the boat into fishable water than a big 18' as well as for anglers to fish out of (easier to net fish as tubes aren't as big, a bit closer to the water, etc.). Many of the streams you may fish out of such a craft may be smaller and/or more rural/less developed. Remember that when fishing out a boat the the oarsman is every bit as responsible for the anglers success as the anglers themselves. If they can't keep you in the good water or get you or hold you in the good water then your ability to effectively put the fly or lure where it needs to won't be there. Having a smaller raft is much less work in this regard for the oarsman. 

- As I originally pointed out, if you got those days where only half your family wants to go rafting, an 18' is a tall order for such a trip, a smaller raft is more appropriate. 

If I were you I'd be looking at a 15-16' raft and a 12-13 raft' or a 14-ish foot cat with some seats.


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## azpowell (Aug 14, 2014)

definitely an 18' if you want to keep all 6 in the boat, if the kids are a little older i would say go with a 16 and maybe a double ik, i have a tributary 16 hd that is 16.5' with slightly diminished tubes. i wouldn't want to have more than 4 large people in it with a multi-day load (honestly gear pile never really changes from 2 days to 5, the cooler just gets a little heavier and the groovers weigh more, +beer). 18' is a big boat and it will make everything you run seem small, and they swallow so much gear it is crazy. 
i have seen a few big 18' cats on the river that had big woven platforms that ran from the frame to the tips of the tubes that looked like they could carry a big family on multi-days.... 
maybe try renting a 16' and then on your next trip rent a 18' see what fits your family and style!!


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## mattman (Jan 30, 2015)

Ya Know.... You DO have the perfect excuse for getting a SNOUT RIG.


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## mikepart (Jul 7, 2009)

tanderson said:


> 18 foot marivia bucket boat in grand junction at the consignment store called the gear junction for 750


Meh, I am pretty sure that is one of the boats that Bob was giving away free about a year ago. Those were decent boats 15 years ago when I knew them, but I can only imagine what it has been through since then 
(100+ days a year on the Moab Daily). I wouldn't pay more than $250 for it, personally.

https://static1.squarespace.com/sta...c2ffd7/1471725114063/IMG_3919.JPG?format=750w


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## Cascade River Gear (Aug 12, 2014)

jwcrews said:


> My family is new to S CO and we are looking for recommendations on a quality raft for a family of six.
> We will likely do day trips, occasional overnight camp 2-3 nights and light fishing.
> I've canoed and kayaked my whole life, but am new to rafting.
> THanks for any advice,
> jw


Hi JW, 

We have some great sales right now on Maravia, AIRE, NRS and Rocky Mountains! If you purchase a boat through us you get 15% off of all your accessories for 90 days after purchase. If you buy a frame at the same time as the rubber you will also get $150 Cascade Cash to use towards your accessories purchase and 15% off your frame as well. We also have a DEMO fleet we are still selling off. Let me know if I can help work up any quotes for you so you can take a look at options. Have a fabulous day! 

Renee 
800.223.7238


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## jwcrews (Nov 28, 2016)

THanks for all the great input. My oldest is 5, so no other paddlers but me and wife(sometimes). The two boats is a good idea, just not at this time. I really like the NRS E160 and may bite the bullet if I cant find something else. Y'all have given me a lot to think about and I appreciate it. Hopefully Santa will be as nice.


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## DanOrion (Jun 8, 2004)

A 16 would be perfect for floating the Rio near Creede, but you'd want an 18 for anything overnight. Once you get an idea of what you want, keep your eye on the classifieds. Getting a new raft is like a new car - major depreciation off the lot. There are lots of rigs in great shape that can be found used for a fair price...if you're patient. For example, after 6 months of looking, I found a perfect Aire 156 for my family of four last year. 

Also, you may want to "try-before-you-buy." Creede is a pretty small town and I'd imagine someone in town would be OK lending you their rig for a case of beer to test-run with the family; find out if you fit in a 16 and if you can drive an 18 on the rio.

Cheers. Say hi to Bristol Head for us.


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## caverdan (Aug 27, 2004)

jwcrews said:


> THanks for all the great input. My oldest is 5, so no other paddlers but me and wife(sometimes). The two boats is a good idea, just not at this time. I really like the NRS E160 and may bite the bullet if I cant find something else. Y'all have given me a lot to think about and I appreciate it. Hopefully Santa will be as nice.


If you buy the NRS E160, you can rest assured that your boat will last you a lifetime. With a family as young as yours, you'll have no problem fitting in the boat. 

Rafters tend to bring way too much stuff.....me included. 

Since your a kayaker and canoer I'll bet you know how to pack lighter than the typical rafter. Good luck and Merry Christmas.


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## bigben (Oct 3, 2010)

2cents from a longtime commercial guide.....
As others have said, in CO and 18er will be way too big for most sections in the state, especially at low water. Go with a 16er-it'll fit the whole family just fine. And spend the extra money for a self bailer, for sure. Bucket boats are the bane of my existence...

Everyone has their preferences, but for what you're doing hypalon will be better than pvc boats. It'll last way longer and be more durable on our rocky rivers. PVC's cheaper, but won't last you nearly as long...

Personally, I'd go for a Hyside over an NRS, hands down. One of the rivers we run commerially, we use NRS E-series boats. And they've been having some quality issues over the last few years. Wear and tear that just shouldn't come up for a decade or so is happening in 2 or 3 years. NRS's customer service is great, but you don't ever want to need it.

I've been guiding for 11 years. I have a Hyside and I love it. I think they make the best boats on the market today. I'd never get anything else, for what it's worth.

But if price is a real issue, RMR probably makes the best PVC boat out there.....

Whatever you go for, good luck, be safe- and most importantly have fun!!!


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## protechie (Jun 16, 2005)

With your kids being so little, 16' seems like the ticket for now. It will be a little tight but you can make it work, and it will prove to be much more versatile in the future than an 18'. Get mom real comfortable on the oars and then you can add a second boat right around the time the kids start outgrowing the 16'. Or add IKs as each kid comes of age.


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## Floatin mucho (Mar 25, 2012)

bigben said:


> RMR probably makes the best PVC boat out there.....


 Maybe in the budget boat market, but as a former RMR owner, and a current Aire owner, I can tell you that there are nicer plastic boats on the Market than RMR. I feel that the RMR plastic is soft, and doesn't hold up very well compared to the Aire material. my 5 year old Aire is in better shape than the RMR I sold at the end of this season after owning it for about 6 months. Both boats were purchased new, and neither was used commercially. The Aire probably has about 10X the use of the RMR, and was used on the same rivers. The RMR PVC seems to scratch and get torn up fairly easily by rocks in my experience. 

As far as the NRS vs Hyside debate, I am a Hyside fan. I think that they have the best rubber on the market. That said, Both of the Hysides I have owned have had very sloppy glue work (glue outside the seams, handles and floor tape pealing from lack of glue) and I don't feel that the build quality justifies the price, especially new. To be fair, both boats were from the small end of the Hyside outfitter line, and I have not seen the same glue issues on the larger boats I have checked out.

Just my .02


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## Treswright3 (May 20, 2013)

I'm kind of surprised by some of the advice on here, but some other folks seem to thinking clearly. Overall I got to tell you that an 18' raft is a terrible idea. WAY too big for Colorado or really anything besides a Grand trip. With a few exceptions, most rivers in Colorado are best in a 14'. The main problem here is that its nearly impossible for 6 people to be on a raft for overnight trips. Its just hard too pull that off unless you had another raft carrying gear (also its dangerous to do multiday trips with a family and only one raft).

In Colorado I would recommend a 14' raft maybe a 15' raft for your family size. You might be able to squeeze everyone on there for simple over nighters since your kids sound young so they are most likely small and light. Just remember how hard a big boat is to move around, trailer, load and unload. Its so much work that you won't want to go rating. Also a 14' raft feels to big for fishing to me so if fishing is a goal you will be looking at a different rig. 

As far as raft recommendations, I would recommend getting a raft that is priced low. I recommend Rocky Mountain Rafts, unbeatable quality for the price. You will undoubtably be spending far more money outfitting a raft than purchasing the rubber. Things like straps, Cooler, oars, frame, dry bags, kitchen stuff, safety gear, clothing adds up really fast plus you will need a trailer. Even with a $3000 raft you will be spending 8-9,000 by the time you have everything you need for multi-day rafting (if buying quality and new gear). 

Try to buy a used raft package deal and dont worry about the specific brand, you can upgrade later if you want. Just get something and start doing nice family day floats and you can work up to a better raft if you feel the need. Have fun and welcome to Colorado.


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## climbdenali (Apr 2, 2006)

So, hearing so many people saying flat out that 18' boat is way too big for a family of 6 in Colorado has made me wonder: What multi-day trips are you guys considering that would be appropriate for 4 kids under age 5? I can only think of a few in Colorado and surrounding states that I'd take my almost 2 year old: Upper C, Ruby/Horsethief, San Juan, Labyrinth/Stillwater, _maybe_ something on the Upper Bighorn Sheep Canyon on the Ark. With the exception of the Ark, all those are plenty big enough for an 18' boat. And even then, I'd be plenty happy with my boat on the Ark at anything above about 800-900 cfs.

Keep in mind: bigger boats draw less water for a given load. That means that as water drops, big boats remain more runnable than a smaller boat given the same gear, until the point that you have a narrow pinch-point.

To be clear, there are plenty of smaller streams that won't handle an 18' boat well, however to say that an 18' boat isn't appropriate for anything except the Grand Canyon is a gross exaggeration.

This discussion has also made me wonder how many of those who are recommending a small boat to the OP have kids and wives. I know that but for the equipment "needs" of a wife and toddler, I could take care of myself for 3+ weeks on a 13' boat. That space budget goes right out the window once my wife starts loading the car.

Lots of good advice here, though, and hopefully a good demonstration that there are so many factors that drive what boat or boats are best for people.

Last point I'll emphasize, that was made once on this thread, is that thanks to folks claiming that 18' boats are unrunnable, the prices on used 18' boats can be pretty low compared to similarly abused 14'-16' boats.


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## cschmidt1023 (Jan 27, 2015)

I have a feeling most of the people saying 18 ft is too big have never rowed one. Most of the classic SW trips are high volume and not steep/tight/techy.

A 16 foot raft is big too, another 2 feet of length and a foot of width are simply not going to make that much of a difference in terms of "fitting through the channel". However it makes all the difference in terms of comfortably fitting more gear / people.

One of the major downsides would definitely be the resale value since so many people believe it is too large. Don't buy a new rig unless you're sure you will keep it and use it for decades.


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## Treswright3 (May 20, 2013)

Good points, I guess it depends on what you want to do. Many of those trips named are permitted multiday trips. I know that I have a 14' raft now but I have plans to sell it for a 13' and a 16'. I love to do desert floats with tons of toys and beer but I would use a smaller boat for most of my rafting (Ark sections, Blue, Gunni, Eagle, ext.). Most of the rivers that an 18' raft can easily go on require a permit, Upper C is the only exception I can think of. I think of boats 16'-18' being used mostly on longer Utah type trips where cargo capacity is king. I also just dont think an 18 foot boat would be very fun to learn on either.


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## CaptBiggler (May 14, 2015)

I agree with Treswright. An 18' boat would be great for the high volume desert rivers and multiple days, but definitely not if you are doing day trips on the Arkansas, Blue, Eagle, Gunny, Poudre, Animas, etc. So I guess it depends on what you are doing. My 14' boat has been great with 3 adults on long multiday trips, 7 adults (as a paddle boat) and 2 adults/2 kids (as an oar boat) on the rivers I mentioned above.


Another thing to consider with PVC vs Hypalon is the weight and roll-ability. If you don't have a trailer, loading/unloading/rolling a PVC boat will be a pain and will shorten the life of it.


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## MaverickUSC (Jun 24, 2014)

I think you should learn how to row a raft through whitewater first. Then, renting is probably a better bet. If you are going to go often enough that you will want your own boat, then you will want to learn everything you can about rafting before buying your own boat. But, seriously... Don't take your family rafting in whitewater when you are new to rafting. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Mountain Buzz mobile app


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## garystrome (Jan 6, 2007)

*22 ft cat with 30 in hulls*

A 22 ft cat with 30" diameter tubes would handle that clan mighty fine. JPW Aztec NM. Choose a frame that make the overall width trailerable...102" on the outside maximum.


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