# Left Stranded Along the River by the Rangers and the Police



## Ganjzilla (Mar 26, 2016)

I used to live in Colorado and spent 15 years paddling on the Poudre, the Ark, the Colorado and The Blue... Now I am in Pennsylvania. Here is a copy of the letter I wrote to the local news paper with the same title:

"Yesterday while rafting down the Lehigh Gorge in my Raft with my dog, I noticed that my rowing frame had a plastic weld in it that broke which left me literally helpless if I had to make any hard maneuvers in a rapid and the water yesterday was quite rowdy! So, I made the judgement call to pull off the river as I new the largest of the rapids were in the last few miles, I was about 8 miles into the 14 mile trip. (which in itself is not easy at this level as it is flowing at about 15-20 MPH in most places) I found a perfect flat rock to beach my raft on though and parked it on top of it. I proceeded to deflate my raft, detach the frame and make four trips up the steep 100 foot bank to the mountain biking trail which I had seen rangers patrolling in open bed pick up trucks, (perfect for a rescue like this) regularly on past trips and assumed that they would be a phone call away. In fact I always make sure I have a full charge on my phone, just for emergencies like this before I put on the river. 

So I call the Ranger office and the guy on duty tells me, "They are majorly understaffed and he is the only one on duty and he can't leave his office!" I ask him what am I supposed to do? He basically says you are on your own! I asked him if I hiked the remaining 5 miles down the gorge to the gate at the parking lot where my van was if he, or a policeman could meet me there with a key for the gate that locks off the trail to vehicles (it is about 12 feet wide in most places and easy for a truck and or bikes to pass each other easily) He said that was not a possibility and he seemed happy to tell me that he could not drive down there to rescue my gear either. (200 lbs of gear no way to carry it out on foot in less the 4 trips) I told him "Well I guess I might just run those rapids with a busted frame and then you would have a "Real Emergency on your hands" He casually said "I would not advise that". So I ask him "What am I supposed to do?" He says "I don't know" . I eventually got frustrated and hung up...

Then I called 911 and they said they would try to work some magic with the rangers or get a key for me, and at the end of the day (by the time I got done the 5 mile Trek about 2 hours later) they had the same message for me, "You are on your own, raft at your own risk" was the exact words the 2nd dispatcher had for me. So I was now in a real "spot" I had about $4000 worth of gear stashed beside the bike path out of site but surely not "Safe" for long. So I made the hard decision to go purchase a bike, and a wagon and then strapped the wagon on the back of the bike and rode the 5 miles up river, and then strapped all the gear onto the wagon and hauled the wagon which now weighed about 200 lbs the five miles down the gravel trail which was quite the work out of course after paddling 8 miles in the morning and 10 other previous miles of "logistics" 
Finally at 8:30 am I was in a local bar in Jim Thorpe sharing my Story with a few guys at the bar, one of which happened to be a retired cop. He said; "I am sorry you had to go through all of that. Your day was a bad example of "the law" not doing what they are paid to do" It is people like the ones you came across to day that give us all a bad name" "They should be a shamed of themselves" 

I had already had some choice words for these "Authorities" at the end of the day they all are just a bunch of "pencil pushing punks" Why we are forced (or voluntarily continue to pay our taxes) is beyond me. Our roads are destroyed, our rangers, and our police leave people stranded along the river and yet they still hide in the bushes along our destroyed roadways and prey on the same people that pay their salaries. "To Protect and Serve" Ha! I think NOT! more like : "To Harass and Disturb"!!!

I know I made the right call by taking off the river, with a broken frame before I got into the big III's and IV's that were waiting for me around the bend. Had I pushed my luck, the circumstances could have meant death, or a helicopter rescue as the other side of the gorge has no access to it. Shame on me for assuming the rangers had my back!

The private boating community needs to be aware that our "privileges" ( we pay for the maintenance and support of these rivers so they are NOT "privileges") are dwindling. Maybe it is not as bad in Colorado as it is out here? I left about 4 years ago, so I have no idea what its like in CO presently. I will say that the rangers on the Poudre, and on the Ark were top notch, and very supportive of our community and actually very friendly to ALL boaters. The "road" that used to be used by the rangers for patrol is now evidently too crowded with tourists on bikes, the local outfitters make a TON of money off of these "Mountain Biking Tours" (It is a flat highly-maintained fine gravel 12' wide road way (plenty of room for a car or a truck to get by without putting any bikers in danger) with about a 1-2% slope to it) There is nothing "Mountainous" about it! So they have opted to put a gate on either end that is locked for the "safety" of the people from the city, that really have no clue about what a real "adventure" is. It is a real shame that things have come to this on a river I really USED to love to paddle. We pay for this State Park to be maintained, and we should either have the support that goes along with the state owning this property or they should give us access to it for the reasons I illustrated above...

All due respect to all the other boaters out there who "get" where I am coning from...Haters, there is no room for you on the River...


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## jeffro (Oct 13, 2003)

Sounds like you had some type II fun. What plastic frame do you have? I've never seen one of those out west.


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## yukonjack (May 22, 2005)

You put yourself in the situation and expect someone else to bail you out? Yes you should hike all your gear out. You were not hurt and physically able to do it. Where do you read that rangers are responsible for your gear? You were safe that is their first job. Not picking up after your bad decisions.


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## zbaird (Oct 11, 2003)

So many things to say about this, but I'll refrain and grab the popcorn. SMH


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## Ripper (Aug 29, 2012)

No fun, and I would be frustrated as well… at that point I think I would have weighed my options on a new lock/chain and a set of bolt cutters though… might have been cheaper than the bike. 

Yukon - not in disagreement with you regarding his choice/responsibility, but you sound like a real hoot to hang around with… hopefully you should be so fortunate to never have to call on others. Cheers!


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## WillEChronic (Oct 4, 2016)

I appreciate reading the write up but the rangers are not there to be your burrow. It sucks your rig broke on you but the rangers need to sit idle so they can respond if there is an actual emergency. Yeah, to you leaving your gear in a precarious situation is an emergency but it is not for me or the other taxpayers.

Think if you did run the canyon and got hurt and needed ranger support, but the one ranger on duty left to unlock a gate for an unprepared soul.

Moral of the story is use the buddy system (not your dog lol) and to buy/build appropriate gear. I'd be happy you and your pup are safe and be proud of your bike wagon setup recovery!


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## Nanko (Oct 20, 2020)

I’ve never seen a plastic frame; is that a normal thing?


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## Quiggle (Nov 18, 2012)

I’ll bite. What if there wasn't a bike path easily accessible? What is this plastic frame you speak of? Do you carry a first aid kit? What about a patch kit? Or a spare oar lock? You should always be prepared for the worse and ready to fix a person or your equipment. Like said above, you were alive, clean up your own mess. You can’t treat every river like it’s road side.


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## Ganjzilla (Mar 26, 2016)

Ripper said:


> No fun, and I would be frustrated as well… at that point I think I would have weighed my options on a new lock/chain and a set of bolt cutters though… might have been cheaper than the bike.
> 
> Yukon - not in disagreement with you regarding his choice/responsibility, but you sound like a real hoot to hang around with… hopefully you should be so fortunate to never have to call on others. Cheers!


Yeah believe me, I thought about the "Bolt Cutter Idea" and or a cordless grinder, and even replacing the lock immediately when I cut the old one off, just to cover my "Tracks" but the risk of a "Felony Vandalism" or a $1000 fine (not sure if it would be that charge or that much, outweighed the fun of getting some revenge and an easy recovery as they already had my name and phone number.


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## westwatercuban (May 19, 2021)

Nanko said:


> I’ve never seen a plastic frame; is that a normal thing?


I’ve only seen a plastic “frame” on a raft like this. So idk wtf he’s talking about.


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## Quiggle (Nov 18, 2012)

American white water says it’s a 2/3 section.


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## caverdan (Aug 27, 2004)

A few years ago you started a rather strange thread........this one is topping the last one. 
You basically lost me at the plastic weld breaking.......please pass me some of that popcorn, zbaird.....🐴


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## spencerhenry (Jun 21, 2004)

So you take crap gear on a class IV with no other boaters, then bitch that someone didn’t come hold your hand and give you a lollipop?
It’s no one’s responsibility to give you a ride, break the rules, or anything else to save you from your own doing. And the childish statements telling them if they don’t help you znd you finish the run they might have be a real emergency to deal with, is unbelievable. You should buy real gear, boat with a buddy or stick to some ponds. 
Plastic frame? Are you cheap, or???


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## Nanko (Oct 20, 2020)

Quiggle said:


> American white water says it’s a 2/3 section.


But it goes 15-20mph!


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## foreigner (10 mo ago)

Great username though


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## Ganjzilla (Mar 26, 2016)

Quiggle said:


> I’ll bite. What if there wasn't a bike path easily accessible? What is this plastic frame you speak of? Do you carry a first aid kit? What about a patch kit? Or a spare oar lock? You should always be prepared for the worse and ready to fix a person or your equipment. Like said above, you were alive, clean up your own mess. You can’t treat every river like it’s road side.


 All respect like I said in my original post. The frame was PVC and one of the welds broke on it. (yes I get it, PVC is not Aluminum, but it is VERY HEAVY Gauge PVC) Shame on me for not having any PVC glue with me! And yes part of that 200lbs was the other safety items you mentioned. The Rangers used to patrol this gorge religiously, and so I had no reason to believe that I was making a bad choice by hauling all my gear out of the river when I did. I really thought I was making the right choice and I still do. 

I see that most of the replies are hating on me. (I doubt most of you that are hating would have been able to even haul the 200lbs of gear five miles on a gravel path with a Walmart Wagon with 6" wheels , but this is the "on line world, I get it, Trolls live under every "Bridge!" fortunately they are never seen on the water ) Which is fine. By the way, I have about 300 river trips under my belt, not one injury, other than a sprained ankle on a rock at Swedes Falls on the Gauley while eating lunch which was not due to any lack of river related skills of course. Many riverside repairs in the midst, this its the one incident that I did not have the ability to fix on the river. BTW, These "Rangers" are were also notorious for harassing the private boaters every tine they could at the put in and take outs. I have witnessed this also. And I bet they will be back out in FORCE the second commercial season kicks back in. As the off duty cop said a bunch of useless....


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## westwatercuban (May 19, 2021)

Ganjzilla said:


> By the way, I have about 300 river trips under my belt, not one injury, other than a sprained ankle on a rock at Swedes Falls on the Gauley while eating lunch which was not due to any lack of river related skills of course.


Do you want a gold star??


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## Nanko (Oct 20, 2020)

I think most of the “hate” you’re gonna see on here isn’t that you got yourself in that spot, or for the manner in which you got out of it (nice work). It’s that your story comes across as pretty entitled. I think most people would assume it’s their job to fix the situation if there isn’t grave injury or a safety risk.

might be a troll and if so great job!


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## kayakfreakus (Mar 3, 2006)

I’m calling best troll of 2022 so far


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## Quiggle (Nov 18, 2012)

If you have 300 river trips and haven’t figured out that things break on the river and it’s your responsible to self rescue you deserve to hike your 200 lbs of gear out of the canyon to a bike path.


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## Riverlife (11 mo ago)

Ganjzilla said:


> . By the way, I have about 300 river trips under my belt, not one injury, other than a sprained ankle on a rock at Swedes Falls on the Gauley while eating lunch which was not due to any lack of river related skills of course. Many riverside repairs in the midst,


300? That’s it?


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## Gremlin (Jun 24, 2010)

WE NEED A TURKEY LEG!!!


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## Nanko (Oct 20, 2020)

Did the newspaper publish your letter?


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## ChillyH20WV (Jul 5, 2005)

kayakfreakus said:


> I’m calling best troll of 2022 so far


I second. This has to be a joke


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## ChillyH20WV (Jul 5, 2005)

Really…good ole Swede’s Falls on the Gauley huh? That’s the funny thing I’ve heard all day. Thanks for the laughs


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## Pinchecharlie (Jul 27, 2017)

Remember the lady "who almost drowned" post lol. (If it was real I would not laugh out loud) . you Should've r1 'd that shit with an oar like a man! All fucking wrastln' that big oar while puttn in cool draw strokes and sending the gnar meat brah! Never carry heavy shit down the path of most resistance jack doodle squat thrust mofo! And just for fun...you thought it would be better to buy a bicycle and shit than just fix the frame and send the sendy class v-? Dick prenicky is gonna kick your ass in the afterlife lol


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## ArgoCat (May 14, 2007)

Dick Proenneke. Lest people get confused. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Proenneke

But yes, best documentary ever


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## rtsideup (Mar 29, 2009)

Gremlin said:


> WE NEED A TURKEY LEG!!!


And a Schlitz!


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## caverdan (Aug 27, 2004)

Was that frame made with "Greenwall" plastic pipe and "Entity" fittings? 👽


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## Nanko (Oct 20, 2020)

caverdan said:


> Was that frame made with "Greenwall" plastic pipe and "Entity" fittings? 👽


It’s classified.


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## zbaird (Oct 11, 2003)

caverdan said:


> Was that frame made with "Greenwall" plastic pipe and "Entity" fittings? 👽


Of course not, or he wouldn't actually have received it silly.


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## Willie 1.5 (Jul 9, 2013)

This reminds me of Poe's Law. Is there a term for this kind of trolling?


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## Conundrum (Aug 23, 2004)

The humanity...


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## Ganjzilla (Mar 26, 2016)

Yes well...90% haters... As they Say Sticks and Stones... I'm good and I will continue to help all boaters on the river as I always have. I have one trip out of several hundred that I had to rely on someone else and I am the "idiot"? The only stupid thing I had ever actually done on the river prior to this unfortunate incident was once leaving a dry bag with our set of keys for our shuttle vehicle sitting on a rock at Zoom Floor while eating lunch...I regret sharing on here now actually... 

I had every reason to believe in a situation like this I had the support of the Rangers I had seen patrolling this road in years past on a regular basis. It would be as if you were rafting down the Poudre and you had a similar incident, and not one person or boater or ranger would help you. (The road runs right beside the Poudre the whole way down the canyon BTW) 

Meanwhile, take the "Ranger Support on the River" out of this. I hiked the five miles down to the trail head where my van was parked. Neither the Police, or the Ranger's could even take 20 minutes, later that day or the next day to get an escort, to help me get my gear out of the Gorge, and all it would have taken was meeting me at the gate, and either letting me drive up there later in the evening or early in the morning the next day when there were no "Mountain Bikers" on the trail, and no one to put in any kind of "danger". But they could not even do that.


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## Pinchecharlie (Jul 27, 2017)

Oh man sorry! We thought you where just kidding! Shit iam a gonna call those dirty pig bastards at the ranger station and give em the onion. Seriously you should carry a regular paddle for emergencies. I broke my set up once too and had a rough go at it. I had to use a strap to hold mine together but it's WAY more manly to r1 a boat through the gnar gnar . Hope you can forgive us we just mis understood!


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## okieboater (Oct 19, 2004)

Please post a photo of that plastic frame and note who built the frame.


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## yesimapirate (Oct 18, 2010)

I do not consider myself gullible, but I feel like I'm one of the few people left on the buzz that will stick up for the guys/girls who have out of ordinary stories. For this guy, I believe his set of unlucky incidents occurred. I believe the authorities did a shit job basically saying NMFP. Sadly, I think the humanitarian standard is on a downward trend in general(authorities included).

However, I also believe you put yourself in a position to end up in a bad way, Ganjman. You did boat alone. You didn't have ability to repair this PVC frame(would like to see that too). You didn't mention a backup paddle/oar option. If you truly have a large amount of boat experience, I would hope you see that a plastic frame will have limitations. I'm going to assume that you had a lot of frustration/anger in your comm's with authorities since you say you hung up on the ranger. If not, good on you for keeping cool. If so, that's another factor. The sad truth is even in professional positions we feed off emotions. Overall, I'm sorry you had a sucky experience, but I hope you learn from it. 

On a positive note, sounds like you got a new bike and a wagon! I'd be interested to see that setup.


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## FatmanZ (Sep 15, 2004)

_"Lessons that come easy are not lessons at all. They are gracious acts of luck. Lessons learned the hard way are lessons never forgotten."_
Donald E. Williams, Jr


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## Dangerfield (May 28, 2021)

Did someone already say that some PVC primer/glue/hacksaw & pipe was cheaper than a new bike? Possibly no hardware store - just a bike shop. As usual I am confused.

(got any spare PVC stuff you could donate Zach?)


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## jwburdge (Apr 9, 2014)

I just have to chime in:
You called 9-11??!
Seriously! An emergency service? The only emergency being you didn't want to hike your gear out? I get it, carrying gear is hard- but 9-11?
I work in a level 2 trauma center in Colorado and there is no shortage of people misusing emergency services. It should be a crime. (But it is job security.....)
I'm not going to touch the rest of the ridiculousness of this story but I hope it was never published! I don't want the rest of the reading public to think all river runners are equally as entitled.
One more:
I have been down the Lehigh gorge numerous times when I started kayaking. I have run it at flood stage and it never ever rated higher than III. Not III+. And definitely never IV.
For shame.


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## jwburdge (Apr 9, 2014)

I just read the OP's other contribution to the buzz.
Clearly a fabrication. I fell for it. I actually got a little worked up! Well done sir.


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## Davenport (May 19, 2016)

I think this is best troll of the year so far. Gotem


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## cnalder (Jul 7, 2016)

Theres always two sides to a story. Be interesting to hear the other side.


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## nolichuck (Mar 11, 2010)

I take issue with your comment ..."I doubt that most of you that are hating would have even been able to haul the 200 lbs. of gear 5 miles on a gravel path.....". When I was 68 three friends and I hauled well over 2,000 lbs. of boats and gear a total of 15 miles in one day (3 trips) when we portaged Virginia Falls on the Nahanni River. The trail was very steep and it was 96 degrees. This is not intended to be braggadocious but simply to make a point. The other point I would make is that it is not smart to float whitewater by yourself. I admit that I have done it myself but only on rivers that get heavy use.


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## Bigbearrug (Sep 19, 2020)

In my humble opinion the only time a ranger or "authority," should be involved is it you cannot actively save life or limb of yourself or of another. Personal gear is 120% personal responsibility. That is the line in the sand in my mind.

If a boat or gear is pinned, broken, beyond saving, etc. you save yourself the others, and call it in. When time is available (on your dime) rangers or police may come help evacuate your gear. 

Sounds to me like you made a great choice stopping your trip and where able to hike your self out to safety. I am glad you are safe. Your gear, however, at the end of the day, is the least important part or this story.


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## Dangerfield (May 28, 2021)

jwburdge said:


> I just have to chime in:
> You called 9-11??!
> Seriously! An emergency service? The only emergency being you didn't want to hike your gear out? I get it, carrying gear is hard- but 9-11?
> I work in a level 2 trauma center in Colorado and there is no shortage of people misusing emergency services. It should be a crime.......
> ...


I have never been there nor will I in the future, but in _defense_ of the OP, everything should be rated a class IV when your depending on a PVC frame.


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## jonas_f (May 31, 2007)

LEO are there to enforce laws not play contingency support. Sorry (not sorry) when you raft, you assume risks and responsibilities associated with skill and equipment, and shit happens scenarios (where was your repair kit with gorilla tape?). If someone is there that is willing and able to help, you are simply lucky and you can take that good fortune, BUT don’t ever plan on it. That’s not hate, that’s reality.


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## Pinchecharlie (Jul 27, 2017)

So now I just gotta know what the actual definition of troll is? I thought a troll was a bully?


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## Andy H. (Oct 13, 2003)

Pinchecharlie said:


> So now I just gotta know what the actual definition of troll is? I thought a troll was a bully?


I went to the excruciating effort of typing in "Internet Troll" into my search bar and came up with this: Internet Troll

The current thinking is that we're dealing with the "insincere" variety here.


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## Bigwaterforeveryone (Feb 7, 2018)

Trolls come in many shapes and forms. The most common trolls use aggression to sow chaos. Others present themselves as the ultimate expert wielding outrageous superlatives and dissing any naysayers. While other trolls ply their trade using absurdity with nearly plausible posts to sow outrage and distraction. Trolls are shapeshifters. They travel the digital lands seeking marks to get their rocks off. It is generally advisable not to feed trolls.


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## Dangerfield (May 28, 2021)

Andy H. said:


> I went to the excruciating effort of typing in "Internet Troll" into my search bar and came up with this: Internet Troll
> 
> The current thinking is that we're dealing with the "insincere" variety here.


I sprained my fingers too.


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## caverdan (Aug 27, 2004)

zbaird said:


> Of course not, or he wouldn't actually have received it silly.


Which makes perfect sense why he was running a plastic frame........silly me......😁


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## Pinchecharlie (Jul 27, 2017)

I didn't know you could search! 
(Trolling?)


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## Dangerfield (May 28, 2021)

Pinchecharlie said:


> I didn't know you could search!
> (Trolling?)


That sounds insincere


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## foreigner (10 mo ago)

nolichuck said:


> I take issue with your comment ..."I doubt that most of you that are hating would have even been able to haul the 200 lbs. of gear 5 miles on a gravel path.....". When I was 68 three friends and I hauled well over 2,000 lbs. of boats and gear a total of 15 miles in one day (3 trips) when we portaged Virginia Falls on the Nahanni River. The trail was very steep and it was 96 degrees. This is not intended to be braggadocious but simply to make a point. The other point I would make is that it is not smart to float whitewater by yourself. I admit that I have done it myself but only on rivers that get heavy use.


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## Ripper (Aug 29, 2012)

Trolls do come in all shapes / sizes... But most importantly you have to look out for the Troll Toll!


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## foreigner (10 mo ago)

Trolling aside, I would never expect LEOs to help me in that situation, but that's because most LEOs are dickheads, not because they have more important responsibilities.


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## Pinchecharlie (Jul 27, 2017)

So just for fun say that this was real or even better it was more real as far as equipment failure or I dunno a strained wrist or some real reason to not safely carry on. Let's say the situation was however the same with access and un willing ranger/police would you guys think I was a big dick if I waited till they (law enforcement) was gone and drove around the gate and got my stuff?


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## foreigner (10 mo ago)

Pinchecharlie said:


> So just for fun say that this was real or even better it was more real as far as equipment failure or I dunno a strained wrist or some real reason to not safely carry on. Let's say the situation was however the same with access and un willing ranger/police would you guys think I was a big dick if I waited till they (law enforcement) was gone and drove around the gate and got my stuff?


Nope, but there are some people on here that scolded a guy for getting a speeding ticket, so ..


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## Bigbearrug (Sep 19, 2020)

Pinchecharlie said:


> So just for fun say that this was real or even better it was more real as far as equipment failure or I dunno a strained wrist or some real reason to not safely carry on. Let's say the situation was however the same with access and un willing ranger/police would you guys think I was a big dick if I waited till they (law enforcement) was gone and drove around the gate and got my stuff?


...I 100% would have risked the ticket to make my life easier, but hey...I am a gambling man


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## 84683 (Mar 29, 2021)

So ranger D here. Do you also want me to come down and hold your hand when you decide to walk around some real water? maybe do your portage for you? Yessem sir! Or make sure you make it out ok maybe call your mommy when you are done. (Or when I find you blue on a strainer). You do know I have more better things to do than save a dumba$$ and his dog who’s to lazy to hike a little. Maybe if you take a little responsibility for your actions I’ll start to give a shit about my 15.00 hr job to save your dumb a$$.


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## caverdan (Aug 27, 2004)

I've had to go through a locked ranch gate before. Be smart and bring a lock with you. Cut the chain link, not their lock. Use your lock to relock the gate behind you. Drive in ......get your shit......lock up behind you. They will never know and years later you might find your lock is still part of the chain........like I did. 😉


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## jwburdge (Apr 9, 2014)

Dangerfield said:


> I have never been there nor will I in the future, but in _defense_ of the OP, everything should be rated a class IV when your depending on a PVC frame.


It is still a class II-III swim at any level....


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## zbaird (Oct 11, 2003)

caverdan said:


> I've had to go through a locked ranch gate before. Be smart and bring a lock with you. Cut the chain link, not their lock. Use your lock to relock the gate behind you. Drive in ......get your shit......lock up behind you. They will never know and years later you might find your lock is still part of the chain........like I did. 😉


Good grief man, dont share that information with common folk.


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## Pinchecharlie (Jul 27, 2017)




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## westwatercuban (May 19, 2021)

caverdan said:


> I've had to go through a locked ranch gate before. Be smart and bring a lock with you. Cut the chain link, not their lock. Use your lock to relock the gate behind you. Drive in ......get your shit......lock up behind you. They will never know and years later you might find your lock is still part of the chain........like I did. 😉


What do you do about the trail cam? 🤔


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## jonas_f (May 31, 2007)

caverdan said:


> I've had to go through a locked ranch gate before. Be smart and bring a lock with you. Cut the chain link, not their lock. Use your lock to relock the gate behind you. Drive in ......get your shit......lock up behind you. They will never know and years later you might find your lock is still part of the chain........like I did. 😉


because talking about trespassing is an equally good contingency as waiting for someone from 911 to save you? Doode…


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## zbaird (Oct 11, 2003)

westwatercuban said:


> What do you do about the trail cam? 🤔


Bunch of rookies in here these days! You moon them!


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## 2tomcat2 (May 27, 2012)

84683 said:


> So ranger D here. Do you also want me to come down and hold your hand when you decide to walk around some real water? maybe do your portage for you? Yessem sir! Or make sure you make it out ok maybe call your mommy when you are done. (Or when I find you blue on a strainer). You do know I have more better things to do than save a dumba$$ and his dog who’s to lazy to hike a little. Maybe if you take a little responsibility for your actions I’ll start to give a shit about my 15.00 hr job to save your dumb a$$.


In July 2002, our group of 6 was on the Green River near Flaming Gorge, when we had to evacuate from the Mustang Ridge Fire
My experience with BLM rangers, Forest Service and local sheriff department was that they all acted and assisted in ways that were above and beyond
expectations...from transporting and storing our river gear (our take out shuttle vehicle was a Subaru), to the hot shots who bulldozed around our truck at Little Hole
saving it from the fire, to the frequent communications and arranging an escort to our saved vehicle; I have great respect for those who work in these positions and gently remind the OP, please take responsibility for your actions, be aware of the consequences of solo boating, reduce risks by having equipment in good condition and plan for unexpected incidents


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## caverdan (Aug 27, 2004)

westwatercuban said:


> What do you do about the trail cam? 🤔


 Did they have trail cams in the 70's?


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## Dangerfield (May 28, 2021)

I want to hear the dog's side of the story. Starts off with a relaxing trip with master and ends up hoofing it THREE trips for 15 miles? The OP should have tested the wagon out on the return trip to retrieve his "Raft" ( note capitalization) with the dog in the wagon at least. I wouldn't worry about the law, rather than the S.P.C.A.
Double - for shame!!

Edit: He should take chickens on his Raft the next time, so they are available to fly his Raft out of the next situation.


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## westwatercuban (May 19, 2021)

Dangerfield said:


> I want to hear the dog's side of the story. Starts off with a relaxing trip with master and ends up hoofing it THREE trips for 15 miles? The OP should have tested the wagon out on the return trip to retrieve his "Raft" ( note capitalization) with the dog in the wagon at least. I wouldn't worry about the law, rather than the S.P.C.A.
> Double - for shame!!
> 
> Edit: He should take chickens on his Raft the next time, so they are available to fly his Raft out of the next situation.


I assumed he was the chicken..


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## Pinchecharlie (Jul 27, 2017)

Years ago I got all excited and shot a elk almost 8 miles from my truck....a cow no less lol. I remember fondly looking up after she layed down at my buddy who was in slow motion and silently mouthing WHAT THE FUCK ... YOU DUMBASS... . 
Iam not a fan of that kind of punishment these days. So I'd have to think hard on the odds and the real threat of injury/death before I walked out. Are there any REAL stories on here where guys trips went sideways and they had to eat their dead trip mates? Therrs an interesting video filmed at the Banff mountain festival where they talk about the ethics of rescue and how people now are not accepting their risks and getting rescuers killed. Anyway it's a good round table discussion and easy watch. This guy is obviously just practicing his creative writing (c) . That's another fun idea! Could have a thread for tall tales! Go ahead and lie just make it believable and with the correct details and facts? I don't like mud season do you guys? Not worth hiking for this snow, rivers are low here anyway. It's kinds just cold and stupid lol. Whats another dangerous expensive hobby I could do during mud season?


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## Wallrat (Jan 19, 2021)

I don’t usually boat with a frame, but when I do…I make sure it’s a cheesy plastic one that will break on me.


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## okieboater (Oct 19, 2004)

pinchecharlie asked for wild river stories.

Here goes one that I experienced.

This is a long story with links to various places. Be sure you got the time to spend reading.

I hope you enjoy, I started the story and the details just kept on coming out.

First some history.



I grew up in North GA spent many years having fun in the areas around Bryson City NC.



I was into canoes and just for fun joined the Georgia Tech Student Outdoor Club to build a fiberglass kayak. A craft all my canoe buds thought was more of a coffin than a boat. Little did I know that this kayak introduced me to more fun trips and fine boating buds than I ever thought possible.



I was there when NOC was created. Soon NOC started offering clinics. I started using my vacation to take NOC clinics in the 80’s. Still a fan and visit NOC every summer. Many boating legends spent time teaching at NOC. I got instruction from some of the greats like Chris Spelious and Ken Kastorff. But one young lady, Mary Hays became one of my favorite instructors. Over time I took most all the kayak clinics offered by NOC. Several twice. Back then you could get instruction from Olympic grade paddlers plus home cooking was outstanding. Mary continued to teach and on one of her classes Mary brought in her friend Phil Deriemer to help teach a class on the Ocoee. Little did I know that Phil and Mary would become life long friends and take me on many quality places to boat.



Week of Rivers at NOC





Mary told me that she and Phil had married and were starting up an outfitting company. At the time Mary had grown up in Panama where her father worked. Phil grew up all over South America with his father’s job. Both were excellent Spanish speakers. At that time Phil and Mary along with Larry Vermereen and Don Beveridge were riding buses all over Ecuador scouting rivers.





Phil and Mary created DeRiemer Adventure Kayaking or DAK. They organized a trip based out of the Ecuador’s Quijos Valley and the towns of Baeza and Borja. I volunteered for that trip. And was introduced to probably the finest place to kayak any type of run you wanted any where. Larry and Don went along on that trip as co guides. What a team of instructors we had. Later on on the river bank, Larry hand built one of the most luxury paddling compounds any where. Phil and Mary used that compound for many of the future trips to Ecuador that I would enjoy.



Larry created Small World Adventures, kind of retired back to Salida CO and Don now along with Darcy run SWA. If you want to see this area of the world, check them out.












DAK would start out in the Quijos Valley and later on move to the Tena Ecuador area. Next to the Quijos Valley another high quality place to kayak.



One of DAK’s favorite runs was the Upper Misahualli. Mile after mile of rocks the size of volkwagens creating some of the finest creek runs I have seen.












After a few days on Upper Misahualli we would finish up with a run on Lower Misahualli.



Back in the day I ran Land of the Giants it was a kayak run only. Now paddle rafts are doing the run. I found this video of a raft exiting the pool just below the entrance drop heading into land of the giants.














On maybe my second or third run of the Lower Mis, we headed out on a sunny beautiful day just outside Tena on a feeder river to the Lower Mis. Between the Upper Mis and Lower Mis several big water rivers combine to make the Lower Mis big water boating. Also this area is part of a national park one of the most isolated runs in Ecuador. You put in there at Tena and take out at El Jardin Aleman. a luxury resort above Pununo Misahualli Napo Ecuador that DAK used.



This resort is in the middle of one of Ecuador’s largest jungles. If any of you get to that part of Ecuador please treat your selves to a couple days. If you take your significant other on your trip, having them spend time at the resort while you boat will make your future boating life much easier.



http://eljardinaleman.com/indexingles.htm





As mentioned this run is usually the climax of your time in Ecuador and was pretty exciting. But it was a day time run. We had water and snacks in our kayaks plus mostly light weight capalene tops mostly as sun screens.



The put in run down to the Lower Mis junction was easy. When we hit the entry into the Lower Mis I saw my first ever foot high eddy wall. We discussed technique and busted out on the river.



Beautiful blue sky, colorful birds every where and the river was up in the river bank bushes.



It was big water boating for sure. After a while Phil spotted a big rock created eddy on river right. The banks at this area were almost vertical. Hundreds of feet high and covered with vegetation .



It was a good sized eddy. Phil and Mary were at the bottom in pretty serious discussions. Knowing them well over the years I more or less slid into a position next to both of them.



The high light of this run at the time was a rapid called Land of the Giants. A big entrance eddy, a river wide drop of house sized rocks creating what at the time was thought to be class 6. The run was to eddy out on the right. Then rope down people and kayaks into a mini pool. Next one by one you did a eddy out move close to the falls aiming for a chute wide enough for your kayak. Every kayak I have seen do that move including me has been sucked down into the crystal clear water only to emerge looking like a nuclear submarine doing a surface move big time.



Bottom line even at optimum conditions this rapid is not read and run.



I looked outside the eddy. Current and various bits of wood were going by at high speed.



I heard Phil say words to the effect if he pulled out of our eddy, no way could he come back.



The decision was made for us to exit the river, spend the night then try to walk out.



So we did that.



Using Phil’s climbing rope, we got out of the eddy, quite a distance above the river and tied the kayaks to the trees. Phil is an accomplished mountain climber and his expertise made this move safe for all of us.



We took our paddles, air bags and what ever else we had out of the kayaks. Started the climb up. This was mostly moving hand over hand from one bush branch to the other. Took a while but we made it to the top.



We stopped to catch our breath. We were standing on the side of an open field covered with some sort of waist high grass very thick.



I had what was at the time a state of the art carbon fiber kayak paddle. One with a knife edged blade. The discussion was snakes and who would lead.



Since I had what I considered a snake killer paddle blade had grown up in the woods filled with copperhead snakes, I volunteered to Mary that I should lead the file. Nope said Mary. Dave these are Fer De Lance snakes not your Georgia copperheads. These snakes are on the alert for prey and come to noise.



Phil is going to lead and you follow along behind me. I think Phil was not consulted. By that time I had known Mary for many years. Mary knew my wife and felt she needed to take care of me. Much appreciated by me.



So we moved out. On the other side of the field we found a trail. The question was should we go up river or down river. Up river Phil would have to swim a major river and hike into Tena.



Down river on river right we would eventually run into the resort El Jardin Aleman. Our destination for that nights luxury camp.



We had only a general idea of location and ended up heading down river.



The trail was good but only a couple feet wide. The jungle was so thick some one could have been on either side only a few feet away and we would never see them. I thought, man this is how our warriors in Viet Nam must have felt on patrol.



We ran into a parade of large ants crossing the trail. It was maybe three feet across.



One of our young paddlers, just graduated from one of the western outdoor oriented colleges was along. His parents gave him this trip as a graduation present. He was paddling one of the playboat themed kayaks of the time. And was paddling barefoot. Those of us with booties on discussed carrying him across the ants. He declined and made a run for it. He made the run but the insects left many bite marks on his feet. I though what a tough hombre this young man is.



Some time later we ran into a cultivated field several acres of yucca veggies. On one side was an elevated structure. Maybe 20 by 20 in floor area. A nice thatched roof. Semi walls of small branches and some ten feet above ground. Mary told us it was common for the locals to go into the jungle, hack out a field and plant a crop. The area and hut looked deserted and we saw no signs of any near by habitation.



Mary took inventory of our food. Rationed that out. Dug up some of the yucca roots from the fields. She found an old pan and cooked them over a fire pit under the hut. Most of us did a taste of this local treat but just a taste.



It got dark. Believe it or not the jungles get cold at night. Mist rolls in. Some of the most intense animals sounds echo. We went to sleep on the floor using our air bags for some padding. Some time in the AM hours several of the guys built a big fire under the hut. As the floor was wrist sized branches the heat went up into the hut. Really nice. I joined the gents at the fire to warm up.



Later on the sun came up. We had slept a bit. But were sure glad we were elevated above ground and had a storm proof roof as we did have a little bit of rain.



We had another discussion. Decided to hike back up to the point where we stashed the kayaks.



I thought to myself, being expert river people both Phil and Mary thought all of us would be safer in kayaks than hiking the jungle. All of us customers were decent class 4 boaters.



Phil and our recent college grad decided they would go down the cliff. Check out the river level. Phil noted that these flash floods mostly went down pretty fast. Some time later we heard a hoot from the two. Phil noted the river was still as high as he had seen it. But, he saw eddies we should be able to hit. We went down the cliff, got in our boats and headed out.



Drinking water had long vanished. We had several medical doctors along. We saw clear water coming off the bank in jets. Doc’s allowed lets drink the water, If we get sick it will take at least a day and hopefully we will be off the river. We loaded our water bottles and the water was delicious. Note: to my knowledge none of us got sick from drinking that water.



It was another blue sky sunny day.



What followed was one of my best ever kayak days.



Phil would lead and before every major rapid would direct us to a safe eddy. Phil would scout. If he ended up on the other bank Phil and Mary had worked out a series of hand signals that was impressive.

They would exchange signals. Then Mary would explain the line and moves we must make. Then dispatch each of us out of our eddy. Phil would lead down the rapid and set up safety. I do not think Phil had to do a rescue that day. We all were paddling at our best.



Being the oldest and personal bud, I got to follow Mary down the rapids. What fun that was. I was amazed to see the route Phil had signaled and Mary explained was dead on.



We hit the Land of the Giants. Same procedure worked perfectly. Phil lead us into the setup eddy. We did the rope descent of boats and people. It was crowded for sure. One by one we did the move.



After Land of the Giants it was pretty easy.



We saw our driver parked on river right at the end of the short road from up from El Jardin Aleman resort.



We pulled in and man our long time driver friend was crying with joy. He had alerted the army but spent the night by the river so he could flash his head lights should we come by.



We pulled into the landing for El Jardin Aleman



Just awesome. Individual elevated casitas with hot showers.



A fast shower and we headed for the pool side eating area.



Water, tea and other drinks were on the tables.



We sat down, drank and ate big bowls of chicken and rice.



Awesome.



Mary announced to the group that she was so proud of us. She noted each of us did a day of class 5 moves and we all did the moves perfect. It is my belief that most of us who get to paddle with quality guides / teachers like Phil and Mary can boat a class higher water than they do normally. This is if they pay attention and do the moves Phil and Mary ask them to do.



Full of drinks, food and relaxing – we all were smiling and slapping each other on the back in joy.



After that meal we headed back to the casitas for naps or hit the pool.



At dusk another feast.



We decided no more river trip. We headed out after a day of rest. Stopped for several hours at hot springs. Then hit Quito and a first class hotel.



There is more experiences on that trip. But I have probably taken up too much of your time.



Phil and Mary are still doing trips. Give them a call if you want fun times in the USA and off shore.



HOME - DeRiemer Adventure Kayaking


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## westwatercuban (May 19, 2021)

Wallrat said:


> View attachment 75332
> 
> 
> I don’t usually boat with a frame, but when I do…I make sure it’s a cheesy plastic one that will break on me.


Shouldn’t you be on the grand currently??? 😂


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## Dangerfield (May 28, 2021)

westwatercuban said:


> Shouldn’t you be on the grand currently??? 😂


Detail Dick also noticed at least 2 days difference.


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## Wallrat (Jan 19, 2021)

We pulled out at Diamond…due to extenuating circumstances. One of them being that we had “that guy” on the trip. He’s a Buzzard, so I won’t say any more. Otherwise we’d be here for days talking about how many ways “that guy” had of being an asshat.
Fourteen days on the water, we split into two groups at day seven.


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## zbaird (Oct 11, 2003)

Ugh. That saddens me to hear. Such a great place to be to have a shit experience. I was on a GC trip once and we ran across another trip on about day three so we chatted about camps, etc, like normal. Guy said they already all hated each other, they weren't cooking as a group, most of them weren't talking to each other and they had a long way to go. 100% opposite of all my trips and one of them I didn't know a soul on it. Cant imagine dealing with that. Im launching here in about 5 days and hoping for another awesome crew, which I know it will be. Few wildcard passengers but I trust the captains that are bringing them to not do that to us.


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## foreigner (10 mo ago)

Let's get a full TR @Wallrat. What happened. Who did what? Which buzzard is the asshat?


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## tBatt (May 18, 2020)

He bailed from rafting and decided to sell his boat.


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## Wallrat (Jan 19, 2021)

I’m not sure I want to go there. I love a good fight as much as anyone, but he’s not here to defend himself, and frankly I don’t want to start a bunch of shit. However, I’ll say this: if a Buzzard named Nathan, from Bend, Ore. is trying to join your trip, pm me and I’ll fill you in. I owe the tribe here that much.


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## Pinchecharlie (Jul 27, 2017)

Live and learn I guess. Good news is you didn't have to have a helicopter rescue your broke shit and ride a bicycle pulling a garden kart back to montana !


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## Wallrat (Jan 19, 2021)

WTF Charlie! If you had come, we wouldn’t have invited him! Dammit! This is your fault……..or maybe your wife’s. Let me get back to you on that part of it. Bwahaha 
The Grand didn’t have anything with more drop or difficulty than Kitchen Sink (at the levels we had), and we run that shit all the time. You’d have had a great time.


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## spencerhenry (Jun 21, 2004)

While I am selling the tubes I bought for the grand, I am not the asshat. 
wallrat and I both noticed hours after meeting the asshat that we didn’t like him. 
Prior to rigging and before even on the ramp, asshat was exhibiting a shit eating grin like no other. Looking at my boat grinning ear to ear and laughing to himself. I found out AFTER asshat swam twice with one flip, that he was laughing at my setup as “catboaters always swim”, and my boat was “so narrow and I sat so high that it was a guarantee that I’d swim.” 
I didn’t swim, never flipped or even got close. I led probably 75% of the rapids. 
I laughed so hard when asshat got ejected in a class 2, no dry suit, first thing in the morning before there was any sun. I didn’t dislike him full value yet when he flipped in *******, a class 3. When he was on the boat that pulled him out of the water, his eyes were as big as saucers, he was scared to near paralysis. But, still never, ever, stopped talking smack.


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## Wallrat (Jan 19, 2021)

That’s a moment I’ll never forget.


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## jerseyjeff (Apr 16, 2016)

Wow. One thread and so much to think about. 
1) Is that the actual boat? Part of my brain thinks yep, I could see how someone thinks that is ok, but, that does not seem like 4k of material. if it was all wood, definitely, but PVC is still cheap.
2) 20mph on the lehigh? I looked up the levels. 1190 from the damn, 2650 on the section he was on. Just for a reference, my 10 year old is in a do it now, and I am in a lynx 2 with my 8 year old whooping it up like a cowgirl in front of me. It is a fun level. Some splashies, and maybe, just maybe III water. Definitely a III swim in some places. I have been on it when it has been fast, but that is when it is pushing 10-12K and that is a hoot. But I think they will shut down access over 9K after the debacles on section 3. There was a trip that went REALLY bad a few years ago, and the national guard was using blackhawks to try and find folks. 
3) The lehigh is my home river, and I love it, but because of ease of access I have seen some terrifying things, and told folks, hey your walmart raft has no business on the river. and those horseshoe pfds, yep, they are NFG too. But, We cannot stop them from putting them on, and then being compelled to help if something goes pear shaped. 
4) Sometimes you have to walk out. With the lehigh it is rather nice to have a rail trail to lump down. It is not a portage from hell. It is just long and flatish. I have walked out carrying a boat and gear in neoprene socks. It was Type 1.5 fun. Doing it with a raft would be less fun. I have also rolled up a no longer viable boat and floated them out too. Sounds like this was a solo run and at "20 mph" the river is in the trees, and a flip or swim especially with a pup could be a real mess. 
5) Wallrat sounds like you had a hell of trip. I really hope someone journaled every day, and we can get slowly fed stories. Sounds like lots of stories. and flips. The grand is such a magical place, and it really is a bummer when a trip gets tainted with personalities. 
I would love to see a 4K set up with a PVC frame. I am so curious.


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## Dangerfield (May 28, 2021)

jerseyjeff said:


> Wow. One thread and so much to think about.
> 1) Is that the actual boat? Part of my brain thinks yep, I could see how someone thinks that is ok, but, that does not seem like 4k of material. if it was all wood, definitely, but PVC is still cheap.
> I would love to see a 4K set up with a PVC frame. I am so curious.


A 4k raft with a plastic frame is entirely possible. With the current market prices for recreational stuff, the OP most likely bought in during the last pandemic we never heard about.


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## duct tape (Aug 25, 2009)

Ganjzilla said:


> I used to live in Colorado and spent 15 years paddling on the Poudre, the Ark, the Colorado and The Blue... Now I am in Pennsylvania. Here is a copy of the letter I wrote to the local news paper with the same title:
> 
> "Yesterday while rafting down the Lehigh Gorge in my Raft with my dog, I noticed that my rowing frame had a plastic weld in it that broke which left me literally helpless if I had to make any hard maneuvers in a rapid and the water yesterday was quite rowdy! So, I made the judgement call to pull off the river as I new the largest of the rapids were in the last few miles, I was about 8 miles into the 14 mile trip. (which in itself is not easy at this level as it is flowing at about 15-20 MPH in most places) I found a perfect flat rock to beach my raft on though and parked it on top of it. I proceeded to deflate my raft, detach the frame and make four trips up the steep 100 foot bank to the mountain biking trail which I had seen rangers patrolling in open bed pick up trucks, (perfect for a rescue like this) regularly on past trips and assumed that they would be a phone call away. In fact I always make sure I have a full charge on my phone, just for emergencies like this before I put on the river.
> 
> ...


James, is that you? Trying to sell more of the “best“ technology and innovation to come out of Oregon?


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## Salidaboater (Nov 5, 2013)

Ganjzilla said:


> I used to live in Colorado and spent 15 years paddling on the Poudre, the Ark, the Colorado and The Blue... Now I am in Pennsylvania. Here is a copy of the letter I wrote to the local news paper with the same title:
> 
> "Yesterday while rafting down the Lehigh Gorge in my Raft with my dog, I noticed that my rowing frame had a plastic weld in it that broke which left me literally helpless if I had to make any hard maneuvers in a rapid and the water yesterday was quite rowdy! So, I made the judgement call to pull off the river as I new the largest of the rapids were in the last few miles, I was about 8 miles into the 14 mile trip. (which in itself is not easy at this level as it is flowing at about 15-20 MPH in most places) I found a perfect flat rock to beach my raft on though and parked it on top of it. I proceeded to deflate my raft, detach the frame and make four trips up the steep 100 foot bank to the mountain biking trail which I had seen rangers patrolling in open bed pick up trucks, (perfect for a rescue like this) regularly on past trips and assumed that they would be a phone call away. In fact I always make sure I have a full charge on my phone, just for emergencies like this before I put on the river.
> 
> ...


I am an active member of a Colorado SAR team and have been for over 30 years. Nothing worse than someone who gets themselves into a situation in the mountains or the rivers that is not an emergency just an inconvenience, and expects someone to automatically bail them out. You were not an emergency whatsoever and yet you dial 911. Stash your gear walk out get a car and come back for you stuff. Sheesh. Man up!!


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## DGDenver (Jun 21, 2006)

Unreal. Baffling.


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## wils_25 (Aug 10, 2010)

Ganjzilla said:


> I used to live in Colorado and spent 15 years paddling on the Poudre, the Ark, the Colorado and The Blue... Now I am in Pennsylvania. Here is a copy of the letter I wrote to the local news paper with the same title:
> 
> "Yesterday while rafting down the Lehigh Gorge in my Raft with my dog, I noticed that my rowing frame had a plastic weld in it that broke which left me literally helpless if I had to make any hard maneuvers in a rapid and the water yesterday was quite rowdy! So, I made the judgement call to pull off the river as I new the largest of the rapids were in the last few miles, I was about 8 miles into the 14 mile trip. (which in itself is not easy at this level as it is flowing at about 15-20 MPH in most places) I found a perfect flat rock to beach my raft on though and parked it on top of it. I proceeded to deflate my raft, detach the frame and make four trips up the steep 100 foot bank to the mountain biking trail which I had seen rangers patrolling in open bed pick up trucks, (perfect for a rescue like this) regularly on past trips and assumed that they would be a phone call away. In fact I always make sure I have a full charge on my phone, just for emergencies like this before I put on the river.
> 
> ...


This ranks right up there with Touching the Void. Glad you survived.


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## Rafter Larry (Aug 10, 2021)

Wallrat said:


> View attachment 75332
> 
> 
> I don’t usually boat with a frame, but when I do…I make sure it’s a cheesy plastic one that will break on me.


Thanks, I needed that.🤣


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## jspence01 (Nov 7, 2013)

That's Pennsylvania . For years the collect money to paddle the lower yough , kayakers rafters and you pay to do the river and pay to be shuttled out. Nice parking lot at take out no Restrooms.
taken many a kid down and after take out, i need to use the restrooms, go into the woods and watchout for copperheads and rattle snakes. now they build a tunnel under the road in ohiopyle for the bikers and tourist people that do not pay money unless they boat . still no restrooms or change rooms at takeouts. and millions have been collected


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## cdw24601 (Apr 6, 2021)

Ganjzilla said:


> I used to live in Colorado and spent 15 years paddling on the Poudre, the Ark, the Colorado and The Blue... Now I am in Pennsylvania. Here is a copy of the letter I wrote to the local news paper with the same title:
> 
> "Yesterday while rafting down the Lehigh Gorge in my Raft with my dog, I noticed that my rowing frame had a plastic weld in it that broke which left me literally helpless if I had to make any hard maneuvers in a rapid and the water yesterday was quite rowdy! So, I made the judgement call to pull off the river as I new the largest of the rapids were in the last few miles, I was about 8 miles into the 14 mile trip. (which in itself is not easy at this level as it is flowing at about 15-20 MPH in most places) I found a perfect flat rock to beach my raft on though and parked it on top of it. I proceeded to deflate my raft, detach the frame and make four trips up the steep 100 foot bank to the mountain biking trail which I had seen rangers patrolling in open bed pick up trucks, (perfect for a rescue like this) regularly on past trips and assumed that they would be a phone call away. In fact I always make sure I have a full charge on my phone, just for emergencies like this before I put on the river.
> 
> ...


Why didn't you call me?? I was already finished with your ex-wife, well at least round one. Your dog likes me better too, so that would have smoothed things out.


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## cdw24601 (Apr 6, 2021)

okieboater said:


> Please post a photo of that plastic frame and note who built the frame.


also please post a picture of your dog... if you do I'll post a picture of your ex-wife


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## ElGuapo74 (May 23, 2020)

Ripper said:


> No fun, and I would be frustrated as well… at that point I think I would have weighed my options on a new lock/chain and a set of bolt cutters though… might have been cheaper than the bike.
> 
> Yukon - not in disagreement with you regarding his choice/responsibility, but you sound like a real hoot to hang around with… hopefully you should be so fortunate to never have to call on others. Cheers!





Ripper said:


> No fun, and I would be frustrated as well… at that point I think I would have weighed my options on a new lock/chain and a set of bolt cutters though… might have been cheaper than the bike.
> 
> Yukon - not in disagreement with you regarding his choice/responsibility, but you sound like a real hoot to hang around with… hopefully you should be so fortunate to never have to call on others. Cheers!


Ditto but forget about the new lock and chain, just go home and get a pair of bolt cutters and your pick-up truck...


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## ElGuapo74 (May 23, 2020)

westwatercuban said:


> I’ve only seen a plastic “frame” on a raft like this. So idk wtf he’s talking about.
> View attachment 75246


Sweet Intex!!


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## Pinchecharlie (Jul 27, 2017)

Hey bro...the okie is 80 years old and a nice guy.


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## DidNotWinLottery (Mar 6, 2018)

The PVC frame thing is weird, I get it guys. But at the same time locking up a perfectly good road and being un-willing to un-lock in an emergency like this is complete nonsense. So quick to lock us out, but quick to unlock it for their own use to hand out tickets or what ever. That is just wrong.


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## DidNotWinLottery (Mar 6, 2018)

The PVC frame thing is weird, I get it guys. But at the same time locking up a perfectly good road and being un-willing to un-lock in an emergency like this is complete nonsense. So quick to lock us out, but quick to unlock it for their own use to hand out tickets or what ever. That is just wrong.


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## jerseyjeff (Apr 16, 2016)

It is a gravel rail trail without any real easy spot to turn around, so you would be backing all the way in or out. The rangers when patrolling will only run in a single direction, and they will use it to pull folks off in an emergency. In three decades I have never seen a ticket issued from the trail. I also think that it is hard to say broken gear is an emergency situation that merits a 911 call. It is a very easy walk in/walk out, and if the boat is no longer working it is possible to get a bike (as the op did) or a wheel barrow, c-tug or even a hand truck in to get the gear out. It also may have been possible to splint the frame too.


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## MikeG (Mar 6, 2004)

jerseyjeff said:


> We cannot stop them from putting them on, and then being compelled to help if something goes pear shaped


Wow, there is so much to say on this thread but I guess others already have. I would rather focus on this phrase: "something goes pear shaped". I love phrases like this where you know exactly what it means but have no idea why it means that. Why pear-shaped?


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## Wallrat (Jan 19, 2021)

MikeG said:


> Wow, there is so much to say on this thread but I guess others already have. I would rather focus on this phrase: "something goes pear shaped". I love phrases like this where you know exactly what it means but have no idea why it means that. Why pear-shaped?


Your next trip to Walmart should illustrate that perfectly. Try the aisles with the junk food.


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## jerseyjeff (Apr 16, 2016)

MikeG said:


> Wow, there is so much to say on this thread but I guess others already have. I would rather focus on this phrase: "something goes pear shaped". I love phrases like this where you know exactly what it means but have no idea why it means that. Why pear-shaped?


I think the brits have some hysterical sayings an pear shaped is a good one, I can't seem to find the origin story but can find a bunch of plausible ones, the best is here “Go pear-shaped”
The idea is a good pilot can pull a nice clean loop that looks like a circle, if you blow it, or are not a clean pilot you end up with something pear shaped. My uncle (since passed) flew in WWII in B-24s and he had a few stories, like " we clipped the church steeple with the wing, and then things went pear shaped fast" and that stuck with me.


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## jerseyjeff (Apr 16, 2016)

Wallrat said:


> Your next trip to Walmart should illustrate that perfectly. Try the aisles with the junk food.


But that pear shaped is not a sudden emergency, more of a slow consequence....


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## Wallrat (Jan 19, 2021)

jerseyjeff said:


> But that pear shaped is not a sudden emergency, more of a slow consequence....


True , but relevant here. Like the OP putting in on a river with his dog, on a crappy boat…with a crappy frame, and not being able to R1 it. A slow building disaster that comes from a series of bad judgements. Then expecting help to get out of the predicament.


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## Michael P (Mar 18, 2009)

As part of a Search and Rescue team we run into this quite often. We rescue people from injuries and situations that have put them at risk, even if the risk is low but they are beyond their abilities. We do not rescue gear. Police, Rangers are in the same boat, their obligation is to your safety, not to your financial loss or inconvenience.
You had a number of options, load your rig in another boat or as you dealt with it.
It's how you deal with those situations that makes you valuable in the wilds.
You have to suffer if you want to sing the blues!


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## LSB (Mar 23, 2004)

My wife is a forest ranger near Missoula. She routinely gets phone calls like this. The funniest ones are people who get lost on Squaw Peak. There's good cell service up there so they call into the ranger station and someone has to describe the landmarks and how to find the trail at timberline. But they never send somebody up for rescue unless there's an injury. You can see the ranger station from the summit but it's too far to throw a turkey leg.


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## westwatercuban (May 19, 2021)

LSB said:


> My wife is a forest ranger near Missoula. She routinely gets phone calls like this. The funniest ones are people who get lost on Squaw Peak. There's good cell service up there so they call into the ranger station and someone has to describe the landmarks and how to find the trail at timberline. But they never send somebody up for rescue unless there's an injury. You can see the ranger station from the summit but it's too far to throw a turkey leg.


Has no one thought to open google maps?…


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

westwatercuban said:


> Has no one thought to open google maps?…


I wouldn't think google maps for hiking, but I would think Topo USA


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## westwatercuban (May 19, 2021)

MNichols said:


> I wouldn't think google maps for hiking, but I would think Topo USA


I wouldn’t either, but I love how in “shitty” situations folks have tools at their disposal and they don’t use them. Any map app would be better than nothing. My phone has a compas built in. I’m sure others do too. Why would you call the rangers office for help, when you have cell service, when you could use any map app (that most folks already will have) to get the info you need…Or…hear me out…just be fucking prepared…

I used to be in sar, and it blew me away how many folks were either unprepared or how many people just didn’t want to rough it out. Like that’s part of the adventure. I’ve been in some shity situations, but I had to get myself out or my group had to put our heads together to get out. We had tools to ask for help. But unless someone’s life was in immediate danger, figure your own shit out. If you can’t handle that or don’t want too, then you probably shouldn’t be doing what you’re doing. People are getting softer and softer these days.


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## Taosgsr (Jul 15, 2017)

I do not know much about east coast river running but in the west if you get to the highway with your PFD on and start hitchhiking, you will be picked up pretty quick. We have all been there at one time or another.


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## LSB (Mar 23, 2004)

Taosgsr said:


> I do not know much about east coast river running but in the west if you get to the highway with your PFD on and start hitchhiking, you will be picked up pretty quick. We have all been there at one time or another.


Dont bother trying that at Mexican Hat. A better bet would be to buy a sixpack at the gas station across the street and start offering to trade it to locals that stop there for a ride up to the put in.


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## Village Lightsmith (Jul 14, 2021)

Help is often appreciated, but never to be expected. The only thing you can really expect is what you would get if you were alone. For those on the other side, helping one with a need is a purpose for life, and a privilege. For the grumblers and the users, you are on your own.


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