# Please let me know what you all think...BOC Review



## Bubbles (Dec 2, 2003)

*BOC*

I used to shop at BOC alot because Boulder doesn't really have any other paddle shops. However, two out of the last three times I have been in, I have been over charged for sale items. It's not a huge deal and they were always quick to fix it, but its still an inconvenience. To be perfectly honest, it has made me really wary of shopping at the BOC. De la Boot is also right on with the old stigmas - you will probably have your work cut out for you.


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## rasdoggy (Jan 31, 2005)

*New Kayaker*

This winter the g-f and I went boat shopping. We went to ALL the Kayak shops from BV to the Fort and everwhere inbetween...

Did alot of research online like everyone today does even found some useful info on this forum, thanks people!!!

Went To BOC and had a very good experience with a couple of the sales people there. Found some posts of used gear there and saw the post about the gear swap there.
Went to it, Well the good experience ended there.
I asked a sales person about some foam they had posted here that was being givin away was told they didnt have any, asked an other person and he went to the back and got me said foam, Asked about a drytop they had on their website and was told they were sold out and wernt getting any in, another sales person found me one. Got some used float bags out a box with a price on it and was told at the counter the price was per bag even though the box said per set which was the same price as a new set I went and got the box and was givin the price on the box. needless to say I wasnt that pleased with my shopping experience that day but wrote it off to being a gear swap rush day but that is not an excuse for poor customer service.

Well a couple of weeks ago I called BOC and asked if they still had some used float bags, as the g-f found a boat at the Miser boat swap and was told yes, I asked if they were still for sale at the gear swap price and was told yes I asked if I could come get them and was told sure. After Driving up to Boulder I walk in and was told they didnt have any bags for sale, Well I pushed the issue and noone there knew who talked to me and it was basicly implied that I was making it up. So with other customers in the store I figured what do I have to lose so I started to make my displeasure known alittle loudly. Well the sales person found the box with the bags in it but tried to charge me 20.00 per bag instead of the per set price I paid and when I told him what I paid he told me I couldnt have, that the bags cost the store more than that. these were used floats with 2003 written on them and I don't care what they cost the store... when a customer is told a price that is the price the item is to be sold at I have worked in retail over 25 years and that is the way things are done.
I ended up paying 22.00 dollars for the set and that was after I told the sales person that is the price I found new ones for online.

I for one WILL NEVER AGAIN shop at BOC for anything!!!!


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## FLOWTORCH (Mar 5, 2004)

I gotta say, I've had problems with the staff there at BOC as well. Then again, theres barely any shops you go into in Boulder where you dont have to deal with elitist shop snobs. Save the attitude, nobodys impressed. If this isn't you I'm talkin about, then you might wanna give your fellow coworker bro-heads a good talkin to.....even the chic behind the counter had an attitude.


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## l-dot (Dec 20, 2003)

Hmm.. I've never been to BOC, but I just got a job in Boulder so I figured I'd check it out. This thread isn't really encouraging me to do so. Perhaps opening yourself up to everyones complaints on a public forum isn't the best way to get new customers. Just a thought. I'm sure I'll get over it and check it out anyways.


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## m0110 (Apr 3, 2005)

I appreciate all your honest opions. As one reader noted, maybe this wasn't the best public forum to be asking or discussing this. But as a fellow athlete I know that "word of mouth" is one of our main forums for discussing gear and current events. Whether the opinion is negative or postive doesn't concern me - I just want to know what people are thinking about it because these comments explain a lot and without them, how can there be a push for change and better standards.

Please don't be shy about your comments, be truthful. Thanks again, M.


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## alex (Mar 29, 2005)

If I were your boss, I would not be particularly happy about you collecting feedback in this way, especially without checking in with me. The danger is that you set up a "vent about BOC" thread which turns off other potential customers who have never visited the place. And people who have had mildly pleasant experiences will not be as driven to post as those who have had very negative experiences.

If you want to be the best in customer service, take a trip over to McGuckin's and observe what they do. University Bikes apparently decided, some years ago, to adopt this very customer-friendly attitude, and they have survived when a lot of Boulder bike shops have closed down. McGuckin's will survive even when Home Depot opens down the street, because of this superior knowledge and service.


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## Peev (Oct 24, 2003)

The few times I've been in there I've had to deal with the "elitist shop snob" as well. And everytime it's been someone different working, same attitude though.


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## Jones (Apr 5, 2005)

To put in a good note. I went in to the BOC during your gear swap and bought a new boat. I was donating my old boat at the time, so I was able to get the gift certificate for a bit. I found that the staff was really helpful, at least one of the staff was new, but still did a good job at helping me out. When I got home that evening I realized that the bulkhead was not there, so I went back a couple of days later, and the staff pulled one out for me, no questions asked. 

The only thing that didn't go great was that the way the boat donation worked did not make the most sense to me. It seemed like the web site implied one thing, but wasn't completely accurate. The overall experience was good for me though.


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## Loaner (Sep 18, 2004)

alex said:


> If I were your boss, I would not be particularly happy about you collecting feedback in this way, especially without checking in with me. The danger is that you set up a "vent about BOC" thread which turns off other potential customers who have never visited the place.
> 
> 
> alex said:
> ...


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## cma (Dec 19, 2003)

I would say that I have had both good and bad service, the thing that allways irked me about BOC is that you go to the swaps and various sales and for instance a year ago I went to the winter clearance spring swap to check out your winter rental gear, BOC was selling the avy beacon rental fleet for full retail price, that was supposed to be a deal? buying a used rental beacon for the same price as a new one elsewhere? I've had a lot of similar gear issues, however I will say that any/all leasons that I have taken there have been excellent.


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## Suze (Mar 1, 2005)

I'm in Boulder but I do a lot of on-line ordering or shopping while elsewhere kayaking -- or if in Boulder, I go to the other shop - the in-stock selection is less, but they are more welcoming and very helpful - they have messed up an order on a paddle and the owner apologized and gave us a deal on it to make up for it. I feel much more welcomed at that shop -- its just more down-to-earth, they quickly learned my name... BOC is okay, I haven't had problems with them, but they are sterile more than anything I think.

I did take a class through BOC about 5 years ago and it was well-run with good atmosphere overall, but it was tacky that instructors hooked up with their students during the 3-day class. Just for that I would recommend a different, more professional school.


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## GE (May 21, 2004)

I've been buying boating gear at boc for past 10 years. I've always had a positive experience. Theie boats for kids program is the best way i know of for getting a good deduction off the price of a new boat. Donate an old worthless boat, like a mr. clean to the program and they give you something like $200 dollars in store credit. Plus the boat goes to a good cause, possibly helping kids get into boating that otherwise wouldln't get a chance because of the start up costs. I don't know about everyone who has worked there, but i haven't run into any employees exhibiting the elitist snobbery mentioned. Eric, the owner, certainly doesn't fit into that catagory.


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## De la Boot (Apr 21, 2004)

Wow, I guess you got more responses than I thought, although I'm not surprised that most of them are negative. 

Although I have to agree with others that the training classes are pretty good and fun. Funny that Suze mentioned it because I too remember an intructor hooking up with a student about 5 years ago, although at the time it was the student who was hot for the teacher. Nice 8)


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## Dave Frank (Oct 14, 2003)

I have always had positive experiences with the BOC. The one thing that would be helpful (though I understand difficult) would be getting help that you could enncourage (compensate) to stick around for a little longer. I rarely recognize the face behind the counter.


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## jonny water (Oct 28, 2003)

GE posted that the BOC accepts boat donations and gives in-store credit. Is this still going on? I have a couple boats that need to be donated. This sounds like a plus for BOC.


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## m0110 (Apr 3, 2005)

Yes, we do offer store credits with boat donations. The boats are then passed down tokids who do our classes; they get to use them for their first year of learning to encourge them to get into the sport, then if they decide to stick with it, they get to keep the boat. Feel free to give Eric a call @ the shop, he'd be happy to give an idea on numbers and such. Thanks for your inquiry. Thanks, Malia


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## Camiona (Apr 8, 2005)

*BOC*

My opinion is the "elitist, snobbish attitude" should not be a problem any more- the one who I think is being referred to is no longer at the shop. 

the boating for kids boat donation program is great, though I found it confusing.

I have had great experiences in BOC classes- I got my roll finally after trying for 5 years unsuccessfully!!!

I found that it depends on who you talk to and what day it is with regards to attitudes encountered at the shop. There have been days where people there have been very friendly and helpful, and there have been days that people seem to be grumpy and rude. It depends on the day.


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## erdvm1 (Oct 17, 2003)

I had many great experiences when the BOC was in the OLD shop near Pearl and the Foothills Pkwy. The selection was better then and the customer service was wonderful. Whne they moved some new blood came in and the place went down hill. I will still go in occassionally and find the prices are high in relation to others which I would still pay if the customer care was even present. One last topic is the selection on most everything is extremely limited. Bottom line is if you could change out all of the "bad customer care givers" and start from ground zero it is possible to sell overpriced gear with a poor selection. Start there.

Matt Booth


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## Lurch (Jun 8, 2004)

My girlfriend and I took your classes last year when we starting out and were very impressed with your instructors and always had a good experience when we went into the shop. But we wound up buying a boat from another store because BOC didn't carry the boats we wanted. I realize it's hard and not very efficient but you should look into expanding your boat selection. It might be just my observed impression and not reality but I think the other Front Range stores carry far more boats.


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## JCKeck1 (Oct 28, 2003)

I've never really had personal problems at BOC and enjoy going in, but I too find that there is a lack of selection. BOC could use more selection on everything - river shoes, books, dry tops, paddles, paddle pants and helmets. The things I buy there are stickers, nose plugs and foam - not the sort of things to keep a shop in business.


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## Electric-Mayhem (Jan 19, 2004)

I don't shop at BOC. This mostly stems from personal accounts of people I know who work there. I think the primary problem is the management, which I will say has changed in recent years, and the people they decide to hire. They are often either completely new to kayaking and know nothing about it, or are knowledgeable and tend to ignore you. 

I know that a primary perk of working at a store is the pro-deals you get, but there is a reason they give them to you, so that you talk well about the company and make the shop look professional. Its not so that you can have cool stuff and ignore the customers. 

Anyways, I think the people who were causing the problem have since left. However, I think that I will continue to take my business elsewhere, as I have had tremendously better experience elsewhere. If it means anything to you all, the University of Colorado Boulder Kayak Club stopped using BOC as its club shop and now instead uses Confluence Kayak in Denver, because while BOC screwed up orders, was uncooperative, and just hard to work with, confluence has been very much up to the task. Me personaly I go to the mountains for my stuff.

Josh


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## JonS (Sep 9, 2004)

*Boat Donation*

What is the deal with the boat donation? Several people have mentioned that it's confusing. It might be helpful to use this space to tell us how it works. Oh, if you need more instructors then I might know somebody....

Jon


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## m0110 (Apr 3, 2005)

*Boat donation & new boat in-store deals*

Ok, folks, here is the deal on boat donations: Depending on the boat & condition, you can receive an in-store credit in exchange for your "donated" boat. This boat is then passed on to our school and/or kids program. The kids that complete a class with us have an option to keep one of the donated boats for one year of use - to help them deicide and also encourage them in the sport. If they decide to stick with it, we let them keep the boat, if they haven't been using it, then we take it back and the cycle begins again.

New boat deals: Right now, the buyer has 2 options to take advantage of when purchasing a new boat. One, they can purchase the new baot at the advertised price - which reflects a $100 instant rebate, example: advertised $899.95, actual $999.95, or they can purchase the boat at actual price and receive a $200 in-store gift certificate which can be used on anything, for anything, or even sold or given to someone else; example, actual $999.95 & receive gift cert. $200. 

Hope that answers questions... I really do appreciate all of you who have taken the time to respond. And, honestly, all of the issues that have been brought to my attention, I was already aware of in my short time here. We are striving as a company to remedy these issues and provide you all with the best customer service and competitive prices. Sorry, that sounded "salesman-ish..." but true. Being a local business, we want to known and recommended by our locals.


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## whip (Oct 23, 2003)

*So...*

who does own BOC these days?


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## m0110 (Apr 3, 2005)

Eric Bader has always owned the BOC and still does.


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## whip (Oct 23, 2003)

*I remember posts from years back that he had sold BOC...*

did that happen and it fell thru or was it just a reorganization?


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## m0110 (Apr 3, 2005)

I guess I don't quite understand your question. Did what happen or fall through?, could you please expand so I can answer appropriately.


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## h2ohm (Apr 7, 2005)

Since I am new to the area I do not have a long history with the BOC. However, I did buy some new boats and gear there recently and I felt the people treated me well and provided good costomer service. I also dealt with Eric on several of those purchases and I found him easy to talk to. Overall I was happy with the BOC. Maybe they have had some employees in the past that were less than helpful, but the employees I met were friendly and helpful. Since I moved from Oregon my only complaint is the high sales tax (ouch!), but that is not the fault of the BOC. I would also like to see a larger selection on items such as paddles, PFDs, helmets, etc. I will not complain about the boat selection because I was able to find the boat I wanted.

I have no problems with shopping at the BOC in the future as long as the service is good and the prices are good. My experiences over the last month have been positive.

Keep up the good work!


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## huckit21 (Nov 4, 2003)

I think that there are a lot of good comments included within this thread. I too have done my fair share of shopping at BOC and my experiences have been mixed. I think that is the key, and the lesson to be learned from this thread. BOC has the potential to service a large part of the Front Strange boating community, but there needs to be more consistancy. I think the comment about Mcgukins was spot on. People like to deal with friendly faces who know more than they do about the stores products. I think one major problem with BOC has been the "sell sell sell" attitude. Instead of entering the store feeling confident that the sales people were going to get me the gear/deal that was best for me, i have often ben made to feel like a sale, rather than a fellow boater. 

Another problem i have had with BOC is there selection. It seems to me that most of their gear is limited to only a few companies, there needs to be more variety. 

I wish BOC the best because i think it has the potential to be a valued boating resource for the front range.


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## danab (Apr 3, 2004)

*i'll chime in*

I live in boulder and have been in BOC countless times. I'd say maybe half of these times I've found what I needed. I'd say it's like having Suterland lumber as a backup for hardware shopping compared to say something like McGuckins. Sometimes when I'm desperate to get something, BOC will have it, often not. There was a guy that worked there that was nice to me and did me a couple of favors; don't know his name or if he still works there. Usually, I would have to walk by the office in back or look in way back to get some help. That attitude seemed kind of the standard. I have appreciated their canoe rentals and friends have rented boats there to go on trips with us. That is pretty hard to find. 

Yeah, pretty much like having a Sutherland lumber for smaller hardware around. The reality side is that boating is seasonal and it's a fine line to run a store like that--thus the snow side of things. That's why a store like the MOuntain shop in Ft. Collins does so well. It does the whole thing and it's kind of exciting to look at all the cools stuff when you go in there. 

It must be a difficult business. Major suggestion would be retihinking of inventory and having at least a couple of great sales people.


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## Livingston (Jan 8, 2004)

My first kayaking experience was on Deckers years ago with rental gear from BOC when they were at the old location. I called to reserve 4 or 5 boats and gear. A friend called to change some of the boats I'd reserved and they had no record of me calling. He made a new reservation and when we showed up Saturday, BOC had no record of either of us calling so we ended up with a fleet of sh_t and some antique equipment. From the other posts, it sounds like there might still be an organizational problem.

You are not going to get many seasoned boaters to leave the shop(s) that they are comfortable with at this point. When boaters are new, they will tend to stick with the shop that they had their first good experience. I've been pretty loyal to my local shop and don't even shop around when I need something new. I never experienced the attitude that 3 pages worth of boaters had a problem with, but that is not going to help you with beginners.

We also had to keep the gear until Monday because they were closed on Sundays. Seemed like odd hours for a weekend focused sport. Is that still the case?

-d


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## redbeard (Nov 6, 2003)

I'll chime in with good and bad. First off, I know it's hard to run a business in boulder due to higher overhead, etc. that seems to explain alot of it to me, as I would say across the board the prices are higher on new items. I appreciate the gear swaps, that's a plus.

I am a deal whore, if someone will cut me some slack I'm way more friendly toward the idea, even if it may be small. Last year I bought my lowfat skins there because the guy on the floor had the autonomy to decide on the spot to give me a deal. basically matched REI's price on the 100mm for 110mm's, and then allowed me to change out the rubber tip hooks (as what kind of ski needs 110mm skins and has a really sharp narrow pointy tip?!?!?) this kind of recognition of the details really pleased me and keeps me coming back.

the demo days on boulder creek will do wonders for your shop, getting in a new boat is dangerous to the wallet, and getting to try them for free makes it that much easier to get the jones on!!

best of luck you guys!!


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## mud0shark (Oct 18, 2003)

*BOC is fine*

BOC is a little bit unorganized but what boater shop isn't? As far as people saying that have "elitist attitudes" that's bullshit those guys are way more layed back than the rest of the Yuppies up here in boulder. BOC is the only real paddle shop in boulder so as a resident I support them! you should too!


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## De la Boot (Apr 21, 2004)

How many free RPM rentals did Eric offer you for that statement?


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