# had the peanuts kicked out of my shit today



## Skillkilla (Mar 29, 2011)

sorry bout the hard day ! just curious are you in a playboat or creek boat ??


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## JDHOG72 (Jul 18, 2007)

My question is are you mentally retarded? ....or someone in the medical field suggested socially autistic...start with a psychiatrist


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## bobbuilds (May 12, 2007)

creek boat.

JD, seriously. it's possible, but nothing good? maybe socially autistic.

are you a paramedic? is nate? I know you guys had to have done something right, no? You guys run some stout shit. how did you get there?


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## montuckyhuck (Mar 14, 2010)

JDHOG72 said:


> My question is are you mentally retarded? ....or someone in the medical field suggested socially autistic...start with a psychiatrist


Doesn't sound retarded to me. Just sounds like someone who took a beating when he was trying to step up. Keep at it Bob. You made the right call. Once the fear has you it doesn't like to let go. Not saying im a great boater but if the fear takes hold of me i try to think of it as a samurai battle. Not sure that makes sense....


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## Skillkilla (Mar 29, 2011)

i dont think you need a psychiatrist ! lol. but your right on a couple points, if your doin class 4- you should be paddling with class 4 boaters. your confidence will increase the more runs you complete without swimming (or rolling for that matter). i have also found that most problems on the river are caused by poor river reading or a wondering mind. when you bump up from 3, the river demands your full attention (and you usually pay if it dosent get it). knowing what the water is doing -and being able to understand what it is you need to do -is paramount to your success in kayaking.


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## caspermike (Mar 9, 2007)

Number one bob have fun bro if you aren't having fun pushing yourself chill out nothing to prove by running V we do it cause it's fun! 
Number two I smoke don't judge me. 
Number three work all the skills rolls and learnto take those beatings by dropping into random holes from time to time hard to know what to do if you aren't getting worked regularly
Number 4 when you crash you get your ass up you suck it up and get back in your kayak!
Number 5 shave your hair into a skullet, mullet is overrated!
Number 6 drink your bootie beers
Number 7 go gayboating it's not fun but it's good for your boating. 
Number 8 I'm out of shit to say cause in tired after a sick day with stafford at the real Big T. CHURCH

Number 10 kick Justin in the balls ¥


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## JDHOG72 (Jul 18, 2007)

bobbuilds said:


> creek boat.
> 
> JD, seriously. it's possible, but nothing good? maybe socially autistic.
> 
> are you a paramedic? is nate? I know you guys had to have done something right, no? You guys run some stout shit. how did you get there?


Cause I am a natural born badass and I let Nate ride my coattails....I also let him have my leftover sheep


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## glenn (May 13, 2009)

First things first, you took a beat down and that shit happens. If you don't want to take beat downs or you don't want to take CL IV beat downs or whatever then you should probably avoid that kind of whitewater. I think you know that, but it's worth stating.

Second there is a padding performance issue here. You missed the move. You need to work on some skills before that cleans up. Same advice you will always hear. Take the hard lines on the runs you know. Catch all the eddies, make the hard ferries etc. Most class III runs have a good handful of CL IV moves. When you have the opportunity for a the isolated CL IV on your otherwise CL III run lap it. Own it. Then when you have a full CL IV run you aren't overwhelmed by the duration of the intensity. Run different styles of whitewater. Big water, low volume, bed rock, rock garden, pool drop, continuous and all the combinations there of. Most CO runs are short so get laps to really boost your stamina. 

Third, you seem to have some mental issues. What works for me is to be excited and eager about whats happening and what's downstream. If things are pushier and bigger than they looked from the road (they always are) then I need to be excited about that. If I'm getting thrown around I need to be stoked that things are that loose. I need to feel that's why I'm paddling this stretch. If I'm worried about that, and I can't get my brain to switch the other way, then I should be looking for an exit plan, because it's a downward spiral exactly like you described. Maybe I can hold it together for a bit, but eventually I will collapse. If you are consistently finding yourself in the position of being overwhelmed then you need to really consider your motivations which is a bit bigger picture. It might be worth considering though. You said you have big doubts about the people you paddle with. Sounds to me like Josh was on it, so maybe in particular he is not an issue. You don't have a crew, and you are nervous about the IV's. Why put yourself through that stress? Are you bored with CL III/III+? If not why move on?

Hope you get some stuff figured out. Only met you once but you seemed bubbling over with stoke for whitewater. Got a trip at the end of the month down your way maybe we can run something?


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## Theophilus (Mar 11, 2008)

Hey Bob here's some interesting reads from awhile back. 

http://www.mountainbuzz.com/forums/f26/tips-anyone-19970.html#post103345

The AW article is in an easier to read .pdf at PPWC Forum: Pikes Peak whitewater Club
if you're not registered hit me up and I'll approve you're user name.

Hit me up if you're coming to FiBArk and we'll paddle somethin.


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## bobbuilds (May 12, 2007)

Mike thanks man I really need to work on 3 and 4. I've been doing #7 more often, i need to just buck up and keep at it. it's really hard when i want to run rivers though. but a must. i get that now. seriously.

Glenn, I apreciate the advice about getting excited and using it positively. Staying excited and happy vrs. getting quieter and moving less, tensing up, zombifying. etc.
which is what i did. I will be trying that tomorrow along with my sword for the samuri, which also makes sense.

I need to be more agressive and positive in new situations. try to feel more confident and powerful. I try to boat in a relaxed calm state as it unfolds in front of me, but I realize now that clam state is only after i've run it a few time and can see it better.

I need to learn how to be more in the moment with the new stuff and harder runs that i'm trying for. I need to look at it harder and choose the right lines when we scout.

I do and will keep working as many new and challenging lines as i can with the runs i'm comfortable on, and continue to do this as i progress through the classes. very improtant.

I need to work on my cardio and get my ass kicked a few times at the play park.

2nd on my list tomorrow right after lawson.

I enjoy where I am headding and have had at least a taste of a few solid class IVs this past season to get me ready for what is comming. I want to be here, i love this shit. It just feels like a big step right now.

scott, i am reading now, also sent you a pm.


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## hojo (Jun 26, 2008)

caspermike said:


> Number one bob have fun bro if you aren't having fun pushing yourself chill out nothing to prove by running V we do it cause it's fun!
> Number two I smoke don't judge me.
> Number three work all the skills rolls and learnto take those beatings by dropping into random holes from time to time hard to know what to do if you aren't getting worked regularly
> Number 4 when you crash you get your ass up you suck it up and get back in your kayak!
> ...


Yes:
#1,3,4,6,7,10
No:
#5 (this suggestion is clearly the result of #2)


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## smauk2 (Jun 24, 2009)

Play-boating helped me advance a lot. It teaches you how to stay upright in strange circumstances. Your roll becomes bomber and bracing improves. Find features that are a bit intimidating and get trashed in a controlled environment.

Beat downs happen, it sounds like you heard what the river had to say, don't let it get you down.

I always have a gay old time gayboating. Gets fun when you can do more than blunt


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## Roy (Oct 30, 2003)

bobbuilds said:


> I love to paddle.


This is the crux of your post. 

Keep with it as long as it's true.


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## cayo 2 (Apr 20, 2007)

Bob,
Getting beat down is part of the game..If you are afraid to swim it don 't run it if it is at the edge of your abilities.Confidence is huge, if you are too gripped you will usually choke.If the downward spiral Glenn mentioned sets in, do yourself a favor, bag it for the day or go do an easier run. Mike 's advice is excellent.I f you are gonna do it don 't hem and haw and overthink it. Get used to getting trashed and staying loose in turbulent water /holes by playing.You boat a lot that usually is key to confidence.
You seem to worry way too much about "knowing /showing you the line " learrn to boat scout, read water, and adapt on the fly.
If it is any consolation to you, I have f 'd that same run up as bad . I duckied it high and stomped it several times years ago, but tried to kayak it around 350/375 a few years ago and sucked royale.Got spanked on easy stuff, could 'nt roll worth a damn,my foot got stuck in my Blunt ( too big for boat), head bounced off some rocks..Ran a little further swam again and called it a day.Also that run starts off with no warm up. You are in semi steep featureless but continuous mani right out of the gate, so it is good to do a pres boat warm up.If you are cold you feel shakier and react slower can go downhill from there.Being fit is huge for confidence.Getting fat and old did 'nt help mine.Lost. 40 lbs. Feel 10 years younger.

Hey guidebook authors that bridge at Vistenz Smith Park has been changed since before CRC 2. I had no ttrouble going under it at 6'4" in a ducky at 630,so kayaks should have no trouble.


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## colorado_steve (May 1, 2011)

sounds like you could have used a nice long "time-out" on a friendly rock after that swim and before continuing on, you might have felt better if you took a breather to collect yourself.... my 2 cents


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## mjpowhound (May 5, 2006)

Fear will mess up your paddling so fast. If you're super nervouse your brain starts to make irrational decisions for you and you do things like "just drift by" when you should be fiercely paddling. My brain once invented a sneak on the left side of Triple Drop just below Moonpie on Pine Creek at 2500. Turns out it wasn't a sneak but a massive hole. I had run that section at similar and higher flows several times before but was scared that day and my sneak chundered me and I swam. After the swim in the boogie water leading to the #s put in I was almost completely unable to make decisions on lines, waiting until I was about to get plastered on a rock before deciding to go left or right. It was an awful feeling and I learned to recognize when I should stay off a particular run or rapid. You can learn to overcome those fears but until you do they will kick your ass.

That section of the Big T starts off with the crux. It's a great read and run stretch and good practice for continuous heads up boating. Will this be your first time on Lawson? That's another fantastic read and run section that will build skills and confidence.


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## Miller Time (Apr 3, 2009)

Hey Bob, 

Knowing you for awhile I thought I might reply, since you're going to get everyones feedback. 

There aren't many ppl on the buzz like you that can take this much feedback with an open mind. 

I agree with some of the comments above for you. 1. beat downs WILL happen to us. It's how you react to them that matters. Mike said it best for you-get your ass back in the boat and take control. 2 stop thinking so much. I know you have spent a lot of time too focused and less time smiling. Relax when possible; get serious when you should. 3 WW courses are good for all us. Go do it. 4. Get your offside roll/brace perfect. Confidence booster. 5. Cardio fitness makes a huge difference in Our capabilities and confidence. 

You've come a long way since I've met you. Don't let a hiccup slow you down or kill your buzz. It was probably past due Bob. Hit me up sometime.


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## coloclimber512 (Aug 29, 2009)

Bob.....I had a good time with you last night running this section. New section for the both of us, at a good flow! I just wanted to remind you that you are a good boater. I like that you are always excited about getting out and doing some paddling. I respect the fact that you’re a safe boater and always think safety. Beat downs happen, even on runs that we become comfortable on. You just got to learn from the experience, put it behind you, and try not to do it again.

I am also nervous when I put onto a run especially a new one. The excitement of what’s downstream or around the next bend or.....this is bigger than it looked! It gives you something to look forward to, it’s an adventure, and this anticipation of what’s next is what keeps most people coming back for more. You are going to have these feelings doing anything that is outside your comfort zone weather it be: boating, climbing, skiing, anything where you’re putting yourself out there and something is on the line. The key is to turn this nervousness or anticipation into a positive. Use this energy to increase your focus level and make clear thoughts. If you’re having a bad day, just know that you can eddy hop the stuff you feel comfortable on and portage the stuff you don't. This continuing on and completing the run, I feel is good for the head. Just knowing that you bucked up and completed the run even with a few portages is good confidence builder after beat down. When you start doubting yourself is when things start to slip away and take turn for the worse, confidence wise. 

Another confidence builder I have found is to lead new runs that are at your ability. Runs you don't know much about and you have to pick lines and read the water. Not relying on others information about a particular and completing it will give you the confidence that “hey *I* *CAN* put on water at my ability without any beta and navigate down with my crew to complete the mission” without feeling overwhelmed. Also learning and feeling comfortable boat scouting from eddy to eddy opens up a lot of opportunities and is good for the head. If you’re in the eddy and you still can’t see the line, get out and have a scout.

I felt you did an awesome job from the start. I thought you looked solid on continuous water all the way up until you had an issue. Even afterwards as we were eddy hopping down I thought you looked good and were executing your lines and making the eddys. I think you just let the swim get into your head and you started to second guess yourself and your abilities. That's when you need to get your shit together and tell yourself "I can do this, I’m going to make the best of this situation". Don’t let this get you down man, you’re a good boater and I look forward to boating with you next time!


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## chepora (Feb 6, 2008)

Beatdowns suck and after last year, I find I'm definitely more comfortable with high water style boating than this shallow bs, but it's what we have this year so I'll deal with it. I second playboating as a great way to get more solid in holes, good minibeatdown practice. As a chick, I definitely know what you mean about feeling like I'm constantly worried about my safety and the safety of others boating with me. I go thru the same questions in my head...which is not always a bad thing. Controlling fear is a practiced art...try reading "A Rock Warriors Way" the title is totally goofy but the message inside applies to everything from backcountry skiing to stepping up your boating skills. Last year I was stoked to try my hand in Class V but as I stepped it up I got beat up as well, breaking 2 helmets, getting run over by a raft at the entrance to a rapid, and almost breaking my shoulder within a few months. This completely shook me up but made me realize, thankfully before I was in a class V rapid, that my head is what I need to work on most. Most of those incidents could have been avoided if I had focused on what I was doing instead of what was scaring me.


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## DanOrion (Jun 8, 2004)

Most of all, make sure you're having fun.


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## Nathan (Aug 7, 2004)

Bob, it sounds like you met what we call Blue House Hole. You're not the first person to get beat down there.


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## hojo (Jun 26, 2008)

Don't ever be afraid to get out and walk around something your uncomfortable with. If it feels sketch it probably is and you're probably not aligned with the river gods' plan of a beat down.


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## Canada (Oct 24, 2006)

We all have bad days.

Shit that is easy on those days results in swims. Just part of boating. 

Go to a play hole you know well and have some fun to get the monkey off your back.


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## KSC (Oct 22, 2003)

Bob, It sounds like you have some personal hang ups as well as boating hang ups. Not a big deal, we all do. Hell, I've been watching JD and Crazy Nate battling the sexual tension between them for several years and it's uncomfortable to witness (but so electric). Just don't take it out on your boating.

I say it's time to step it down a notch. I'm not a big subscriber to this whole mental toughness business. The way I see it, fear originates largely from things you don't understand and things you can't control. It's natural to encounter that sometimes in boating, but not constantly or overwhelmingly so. What people call mental toughness mainly comes from being well practiced and knowledgeable. In general, I don't quite buy this "I just need to nut up" attitude. What you need to do is focus, learn, rehearse, correct, practice some more, over and over and over again. 

Personally, I know I'll never be the best kayaker out there - I won't even become a great one. Yes, that irritates me sometimes, but so do a lot of things in life. But, I'm still going to try to give it the best I can and focus on incremental improvements and so far that's kept me interested in and enjoying the sport. Some people seem to have this attitude that they must be boating such and such a run on a particular timeline. That's silly. You have to tailor your progression to yourself and what you're ready for.

I've never seen you boat, but based on your story here and posts last year about trying to figure out obtuse ways to run Gore, it just seems like you need to be more patient with your progression. I consider Waterton an easy run for me these days, but I went there the other week and it took me 3 tries to catch a little eddy on the left I wanted to get on Green Bridge. There's ample opportunity to learn in easier water. 

I'll spare repetition of all the usual and good advise about how to progress. The main thing is to go out and implement some of that advice: practice and focus. Keep surfing it up and catching eddies while your buddies are pounding beers at the takeout. As you become a better boater - as you become a better person - people will gravitate toward you naturally. Focus on those things rather that what you have or have not run.


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## DanOrion (Jun 8, 2004)

Adding to the "keep it fun" mantra, I've found that planning on walking stuff before you even get on the river is a way to deflate all the anxiety from a day of boating. You've got nothing to prove to yourself, nothing to prove to anyone else. You're on the river to have a good time, just like it should be.

Kevin, when you finally caught that little eddy, did you surf the wave next to it? It's so fast and nice.


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## craven_morhead (Feb 20, 2007)

I just want to add as a caveat to Kevin's post, his becoming a better boater has not made him a better person.

The rest of his advice is spot-on.


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## carvedog (May 11, 2005)

glenn said:


> Most class III runs have a good handful of CL IV moves. When you have the opportunity for a the isolated CL IV on your otherwise CL III run lap it. Own it.


QFT.

If you are 'running' Class 3 and relaxed about it, then create a class 4 out of it. 

Some good advice given when I was looking to step up to some 'easy' class 5: if you aren't ready and willing to play in class 4(+), then don't run class 5.

Surviving a rapid or run is a lot different than being comfortable in it. On your class 3 runs make it as hard as possible. Eddy out in the middle, go for micro eddys that look impossible to hit. Get spanked there before moving on. 

If it ain't fun, you aren't going to relax. I realized I am not a class 5 kayaker, but I love to surf. That is what I did. Ran some tough class 4s and that was ok for me. 

Good luck.


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## sarahkonamojo (May 20, 2004)

Been there. Even been in the same hole and swam out of it. And swam the next time, too. Only problem with swimming the BT is the shallowness. Beat down, then beat up.
I found the section above Drake, the section just below the gnar, to be a much better place to start. More distance between events/rapids.
Life ebbs and flows. Self confidence is the biggest safest tool around.
Step it down. Have fun. Meet people and paddle with them. Or the other way around. There are freaks of all sorts on rivers. That is one of the great things about it!
Cheers, Sarah


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## KSC (Oct 22, 2003)

Dan, of course I did - what kind of fool do you take me for? I surfed it even when I missed the eddy above the rock, just caught the one below the rock.



craven_morhead said:


> I just want to add as a caveat to Kevin's post, his becoming a better boater has not made him a better person.


Unfortunately, this is true. In fact, the quotients seem to be inversely proportional. The only consultation is I don't seem to be getting much better as a boater.


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## gh (Oct 13, 2003)

KSC has good suggestions, back off till its fun again. Next beatdown, take your time getting back in the boat. Rushing seems to be a natural reaction to a beatdown, probably the adrenaline. Everyone wants to jump back in there boat or as I have done, try to make a bad situation worse, take your time and catch your breath.


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## BrianK (Feb 3, 2005)

Kayaking has gotten much more fun for me when I realized where my comfort zone was and stuck with it. When I used to run Class V I was always shaky because fear controlled me. I boated poorly, got into some bad situations that could have turned out much worse, and I stopped enjoying kayaking as much. Now I try to stick to Class IV-IV+ with the occasional V- (although this is kind of a lie, because people who know me know that any rapid that I run is automatically downgraded to Class IV), and it has made all the difference. I am generally always in control, and I have much more fun with it. 

Everyone enjoys kayaking differently. Some people like to push themselves harder and harder, and that is great. However, I prefer getting out into beautiful areas with friends, and I don't need to max out on adrenaline. Find your comfort zone, and it will go a long way. 

I do want to discuss something that I have seen written and heard a million times. People always say that the best way to prepare for Class X is to make Class X-1 harder by running tougher lines, playing, etc. I think it is true that if you aren't comfortable enough in class III+ to play, eddy out, etc then you shouldn't be running class IV. However, some things just don't translate. 

The Big Thompson is a perfect example. None of the moves below the Gnar section are that difficult - most are what I would think of as Class III moves with a handful of Class IV sections. However, it is about as tight and continuous as Class IV river sections get. The speed of the river and the need to make move after move with sharp rocks and pin consequences is just something that is hard to prepare for. I just think that no amount of Class III will get you ready for it. 

That's just my opinion, I'd like to hear other thoughts on it.


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## glenn (May 13, 2009)

BrianK said:


> The Big Thompson is a perfect example. None of the moves below the Gnar section are that difficult - most are what I would think of as Class III moves with a handful of Class IV sections. However, it is about as tight and continuous as Class IV river sections get. The speed of the river and the need to make move after move with sharp rocks and pin consequences is just something that is hard to prepare for. I just think that no amount of Class III will get you ready for it.
> 
> That's just my opinion, I'd like to hear other thoughts on it.


It think finding the right lines on the right rivers helps... Continuous water is continuous water. Take your continuous CL III run and make it hard. Use the standing waves as markers for lack of eddies and rocks. Move back and forth in the river sometimes with the laterals sometimes against, sometimes just maintaining your position. 

Lots of boulder gardens have the mank lines that will provide an intro to very tight runs but without the steep pushy runnout. This will give you the same learning tools but in slow motion.

You are right in there is no substitute for the real thing, but if you worth through all the pieces ahead of time, it's just a matter of putting them together when you step it up. If you find a blinds spot in your skills then you need to go back and work on that specific area. From the sounds of it read and run skills might help a lot. Unfortunately there are only so many new runs but again new or weird lines on the common runs are a great way to help build those skills.


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## JDHOG72 (Jul 18, 2007)

KSC said:


> Hell, I've been watching JD and Crazy Nate battling the sexual tension between them for several years and it's uncomfortable to witness (but so electric)./QUOTE]
> 
> It's no secret that Nate had been trying to hook up with me for years. Who could blame him? I only let him hang around me so he will carry my boat up OBJ. But Kevin you know my affinity towards sheep


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## -k- (Jul 15, 2005)

I think we may be at a similar level of progression and one thing I would recommend is to learn to celebrate your mistakes. Now I haven't taken a beat down like you described but I have screwed up plenty. To me it sounds like you gave it a solid effort to fight your way through and made the choices you needed to to get yourself out of the situation. The lesson sucked, but you successfully navigated the beat down. Obviously an eye opener, but give it a fist pump for fortitude and chaulk it up as a lesson learned. Now if your getting into these situations often that may be a different story.


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## jonny water (Oct 28, 2003)

Scout for longer....choose the fool proof line or no line at all. Go upstream of the drop at river level (in the eddy you plan to begin your line if possible) and figure out landmarks or river features that will guide you to your line. Get out and re-scout the drop again right before running it. Paddle hard so that your boat is moving faster than the river so that you are in control, not the river. Nail the line or deal with the consequence and hold onto your paddle. Don't swim.


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## huck it (Jul 23, 2011)

Mmmmmmm peanuts!!!!


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## mhelm (Jun 28, 2008)

We all get beat down once in a while... some more than others... it's what you do after that matters. I've gotten the shit kicked out of my and stuck with it over the past 13 years of not swimming, but there's always the possibility of having a really bad day. I took some major beatings when I was learning. I wanted to hang with all the badass kayakers back east. I don't recommend trying the Green Narrows after 6 months of paddling, btw. Stick with your ability level and slowly progress by trying new or harder lines through rapids you already know. Thats how I got better. I'd jump into a trashy hole on purpose just to see if I could get out. After a while, I was able to paddle almost anything and not worry about bad holes or missing lines. Enjoy the sport, or it's not worth doing.

Is it weird I find myself mostly agreeing with CasperMike?


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## hojo (Jun 26, 2008)

mhelm said:


> Is it weird I find myself mostly agreeing with CasperMike?


I had to seek counseling.


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## lmyers (Jun 10, 2008)

Lots of good advice on this thread Bob.

Knowing you, and having boated with you some, I think we are pretty close to the same skill level and have some of the same issues with anxiety. One difference though, is that you seem bound and determined to get on class V as quick as you can.

The one suggestion I would add would be to go on more road trips to boat different styles of whitewater that are in, or just pushing your comfort zone. It is one thing to say your comfortable and solid class III/IV on runs that you have memorized, it's another to read and run your way down a new river, without a guide. That is what I have been doing to try and up my confidence level, as well as finding class III runs that have solid IV rapids that are pushing it a little for me, then I try and pick these rapids apart, practicing class IV skills.


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## Cphilli (Jun 10, 2010)

I'll never forget my first time on castle creek/slaughterhouse/ upper fryingpan. It was well within my comfort zone even though they were all crankin, and it was a class below what I generally enjoy paddling. Having never done any of these runs previously and having good water levels led to an awesome day(self guiding). Sometimes just seeing new horizon lines will get you to start focusing a little better.

Definitely some good info to work off on this thread. The way I look at it is you are the one that gets back in the boat, reflects on your experience, and decides where you would like to go from here.


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## bobbuilds (May 12, 2007)

All great advice, I appreciate it.

Nathan, it would seem that i have a problem with holes named after colored houses, so if anyone would chime in on the location of yellow house hole and green house hole, i will work on my primary house hole colors, then move on to orange and purple etc...

thank you KSC, sarah, brian, jonny, k, mhelm, logan. all great advice that i need to engrain into my paddling. I am glad to have so many people help to remind me of the positive things that will keep me centered and paddling well into old age.

brian, i agree with you. i feel like class 4 is like pac-man after a few level advances. the courses arn't too much tougher but the speed is like whoa the first.

logan, I agree with your advice, and do try to get on as many different rivers as i can. That is a great way to know that any class 3-3+ run be it big water or creek continuous or pool drop in any state or country. I do feel like i can safely navigate these runs and it is great exposure.

I am not in ahurry, or maybe i am. I am 33 years old. I feel like i have only so much time to get comfortable with class 4-5 before age takes over and i become more reserved. I am not trying to be young and reckless, I just want to make up for the years i did not paddle as a youth and am looking to gain as much experiance as safely as i can before i turn 40. 

It is not about age, I just want to make up for all the years i did not kayak and was rather hoping to be a solid class V mortal paddler, i have no dreams of doing what these guys do today, maybe dreams. but just to get there and live out a decade as a class V boater would be more than enough, then i can go into my 50's and 60's boating gore and bailey happily, because i have the years and knowledge.

I'll get there, just takes time.

awesome.


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## Crazy Nate (Aug 29, 2008)

JDHOG72 said:


> It's no secret that Nate had been trying to hook up with me for years. Who could blame him? I only let him hang around me so he will carry my boat up OBJ. But Kevin you know my affinity towards sheep





KSC said:


> Hell, I've been watching JD and Crazy Nate battling the sexual tension between them for several years and it's uncomfortable to witness (but so electric). Just don't take it out on your boating.


You know what Kevin...I have run some shit...full decent of Gore at 5,350...Lake Creek...Lumbsten falls...blind...Gilman like 40 times...Black Canyon...Gore around 100 times...but you suck one dick...one dick...and your gay the rest of your life...for your information I was wearing a condom...no skin to skin contact...so it wasn't gay...plus everybody knows that JDHOG puts out if you carry his boat...


Bob, sounds like you might need some help with your mental game...I wouldn't know anything about that...


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## paulk (Apr 24, 2006)

The best thing you could do is quit your job and paddle a ton of days in a row or move somewhere with a longer season. Okay fine, This isn't too realistic and maybe I am just pissed about the lack of water, but It seems like the best boaters I know have gone on a boating sabbatical away from colorado. Don't get me wrong CO is a great place to kayak, but it seem like as soon as you are progressing, the water is gone. Maybe you can even plan a trip or two to the northwest during the winter to keep you fresh. It takes me a solid 10 outings each summer before I feel like I am confident enough to take on harder runs. Make sure you don't jump into things until you are feeling it. (Edit: Low Water Rant)

Also, Class V should not necessarily be the benchmark you set for yourself.This was the goal I set for myself, and, when I got there, I realized I was having more indigestion than fun. It is awesome to have the skills to make a relaxing gore or bailey trip, but I lost sight of the reason I was boating. I am not a gnar boater by any means but the best days I have had are on class III-IV trips with friends and many times on IV-V runs these days I am taking the far far right line (on shore) to make my day a little more stress free. This isn't skiing, you don't impress people by doing a DOUBLE BLACK DIAMOND, you impress people by being a sold boating partner who they can rely on when they need to. my two cents.

Oh and Brian, just because you are in a creekboat doesn't mean it is class IV_*
*_


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## JDHOG72 (Jul 18, 2007)

You left your sex wax in my car again you sick bastard. How many times do i have to tell you i dont want my wife to find that! Also, I am gonna need those tall rubber boots back that i let you borrow. Thanks for carrying my boat to the gore putin yesterday.

And Craig, Castle creek? Dont be such a pansy.....just cause we had to pull a boat out with a truck

Bob, we are running bailey today if you want to go.


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## Cphilli (Jun 10, 2010)

If I remember someone swam that day, and it wasn't Turtle.


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