# Rigging advice for newbie appreciated



## Conundrum (Aug 23, 2004)

Not bad for free.

1-yes, but personally I would drill holes and router the edges of those holes. You could use those holes and run short cam straps to the bars underneath and that would create a hinge and way to open the table to the drop bag.
2-your frame is adjustable. I'd move the dry box back to the end on the side tubes on the frame. Your rowing cockpit looks cramped unless you are very height challenged.
3-it's okay to row rear of center. Many people do. It's a personal preference where your oars are in relation to the boat. My raft is rearward and my cat is forward.


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## luckylauren (Apr 3, 2016)

*Take your time*

Things to consider, practice rigging on shore, it'll make rigging on the water and much more efficient pattern.

More straps! When ever you rig something, don't underestimate the power of moving water. If it is something really important, like your kitchen box, or all your food for the trip, take the time to make sure you have it strapped with multiple straps. Straps can blow out, and rafting gear is expensive, straps by comparison are relatively cheap.

Make sure you rig your frame to multiple d-rings, so if one of those bad boys blows, you don't lose everything.

You know those sketchy pick-up trucks rolling down the interstate and you don't want to follow behind them because that mattress is begging to fly off, use that as your example of how not to rig your stuff. Shoot for a tidy rig, with multiple anchor points, that'll hold when upside down.


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## yardsells (Jul 14, 2014)

I like the floor inflation valve in the bow. Too hard to get to when your stern is loaded on multi-days.


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## Pinchecharlie (Jul 27, 2017)

Hey thanks for the advice! I tried to set up the seat/footbar/oars , so when I was at rest the oars where slightly in front of my knees and a couple inches above? Thought I read that here lol. So yeah iam short . When I was young I boxed professionally , I weighed in at a heavy 106! Now about a buck 35 at a towering 5'5".😂. I actually hate those little face things sorry. Anyway so I feel comfortable at rest and set up the seat to give myself the ability to push hard and or fly backwards a bit. I will use lots of straps and carry extras.good advice. I have a lot of them from work and life. One thing that I was wondering is are the kinds of straps I call "cam" straps dangerous or something? I never see them on boats and they work alot better? You know the ratcheting kind? I will try and make slots for the straps too that sounds better than just flat straps on the table/ seat. I have a beaver tail I made for fishing too for the back or just a net floor I dunno? You gotta be rich to have all the cool stuff! Keep the tips coming I really enjoy being involved and like to see what people who know what they are doing do. Thanks again Charlie


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## kengore (May 29, 2008)

All straps and buckles are not created equal. Durability and resistance to sand are critical for boating. There are various grades of webbing as well, nylon will stretch when wet, polyester not so much. Here is a good info page on strap material pro/con.

Hints and How-To's for Strap Projects - Strapworks

Western desert rivers are incredibly hard on gear. Those cheap straps you see at Home Depot are not up to the task. The straps literally hold your boat together, they are an integral structural component. Don't skimp on your straps, especially the ones that hold the frame and tubes together.

You will need a large number of straps in various sizes, I prefer to use ones that are color coded or marked by length. Makes sorting stuff a lot easier.
( I need 69 straps for my cat rig, over 30 for the bucket boat)
Straps come in two styles, regular and loop to loop where the ends of the straps have sewn in loops that you can wrap around the frame. I prefer the loop style since they stay attached to the boat and are less likely to go for a swim.

some general strapping tips...

1. When possible take two or more turns around the frame, this prevents the strap from rolling when you tighten it. Use extra wraps to take up slack and minimize loose tails.
2. Arrange straps so you can tighten them from within the boat. A lot of noobies rig on dry land then find out all the cams are pointed so you have to get out of the boat to pull on them.
3. Redundant tie offs are good, when possible get at least two ties downs to a loose object.
4. Keep the ends neat and well heat fused, fuzzy straps are a pain to thread.
the quickest way to beat up your straps is to leave loose tails when you drive on the highway. The 60 mph winds will beat them to pulp.
5. If the end of the strap is too small to get a good grip, just clip another buckle on it to give yourself a hand hold. You can tighten stuff with just a 1/2" sticking out.
6. Save yourself a lot of rigging headache and purchase an 'everything bag' or similar product. Everything Bag - Raft Rigging Made Easy - Tuff River Stuff
7. Mark your straps with spray paint to keep track of them. I spray the buckles a bright lime green. On hectic ramps gear gets intermingled and most of us buy the same brand of straps. It's easy to say 'all the green ones are mine'.
8. When loading or unloading I use a simple rule, never leave a strap loose. If you unbuckle one to remove gear you immediately replace it or loop it around a frame and buckle it, never just set it down. Loose straps *will* swim.
9. Straps that pass through a routed hole or D ring are much more secure that a strap that just loops over something. You can cut holes, add D rings, footman loops or sew in loops of webbing to your gear to help with this.

Some of my old time rafting buddies don't use cam straps. They prefer military tubular webbing in 5/8" or 1" sizes. They cut to length and use bowline and truckers hitch knots to rig. You can buy bulk tubular webbing cheap on-line. I prefer straps, but this can be a good way to try out several rigs and see what size and length you need.


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## kengore (May 29, 2008)

Most rigs are 'works in progress'. I modify my rigging a bit for each trip depending on what I need to carry. On multi day trips I might not get it just right until day 3 or 4. When you do get it just right, pull out the camera and make a record of what goes where with which size straps. Make the next rigging much easier.


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## spenceuiuc (May 28, 2008)

What make/model is your new boat? Apparently I'm shopping at the wrong grocery stores!

In general, while rigging you want to minimize loose ends/tails that could wrap around a person/get folks tangled in a flip. I also try to look at my setup and think about places that a foot/leg/arm could get wedged in a flip, and minimize those types of situations where practical. 



Pinchecharlie said:


> One thing that I was wondering is are the kinds of straps I call "cam" straps dangerous or something? I never see them on boats and they work alot better? You know the ratcheting kind?


I think you are confusing 'ratchet straps' and 'cam straps.' Don't use the ratcheting straps. Stick with the 'NRS strap' style cam straps for sure. If you don't need it all to match, then check out Salamander's grab bags of straps: https://salamanderpaddlegear.com/product/grab-bag-cam-straps.

Also check out loop straps for strapping your coolers/box/seat to the frame- they make for quicker rigging: https://www.nrs.com/product/1444/nrs-1-loop-straps.

You also need to make sure you are carrying a spare oar (3 total), and might consider rigging with spare oar keepers, or a couple small NRS straps: https://www.nrs.com/product/1425/nrs-spare-oar-keeper

Looks like you are currently letting your cooler sit on the floor. Ultimately you'll want to suspend it so it sits up off the floor, with either drop bags/straps/etc.

Also consider adding a drop bag under that seat to hold more gear. Space is precious- you don't wanna waste it.

Get at least 1 throw bag for rescue. I like to have 1 in the captains bay and one in the bow for rescue. Get a separate bowline bag that you'll tie up the boat with when at shore. Don't use your throw line to tie up your boat at shore. MAKE SURE ALL ROPES ARE IN BAGS/NO LOOSE ROPES ON THE BOAT.

If you're gonna have carabiners, make sure they are locking. You don't want a carabiner to clip to you/your pfd unexpectedly in a flip. Lockers prevent that.

Lastly, consider taking a swiftwater rescue course. They are a lot of fun and you'll learn a ton about being safe on the water.

Have fun and be safe out there- it's really a great sport you're getting into.


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## kengore (May 29, 2008)

After looking at your photos in more detail, a few suggestions...

- Round over all the edges on your plywood pieces, sharp corners will scrape you up. It's not just flips you need to be planning for, white water will bounce you and passengers around a lot. Soft edges when ever possible.

- I would cut a bunch of holes in the all the decking to provide tie down points for gear. For example you might want to put a PACO pad or something on the seat and some extra holes let you tie things on without disturbing the table. If you are using cam straps it helps if the holes are big enough to pass the buckle. Tiny little slots are difficult to thread, esp. when the boat is full.

- As other suggested, you don't want stuff directly on the floor (causes pinch points when you hit rocks) Suspend the cooler on some straps, add a drop bag to the front seat. Use your beaver tail or a mesh floor in back. If you cut holes in the deck at the right places you can use a short strap around the frame on one side as a hinge, easy access to gear below.

- I would stretch out the bays and use the full length of the bars, your rowing bay looks small, but it depends on your anatomy not mine. If you are shorter you might want raise your sitting position for more leverage.

- if you don't expand your bays consider purchasing shorter side rails. I think NRS sells the raw pipe for about $6 a foot. The ends sticking out look like a puncture or entrapment hazard to me. If you backed hard into a rock those might go through the tubes and you could lose both chambers in an instant.


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## spenceuiuc (May 28, 2008)

kengore said:


> - if you don't expand your bays consider purchasing shorter side rails. I think NRS sells the raw pipe for about $6 a foot. The ends sticking out look like a puncture or entrapment hazard to me. If you backed hard into a rock those might go through the tubes and you could lose both chambers in an instant.


For that extra frame length, I'd consider either trimming the existing rails to fit your current setup, or pushing the footbar forward until it hits the cooler, then sliding the drybox forward the same distance, and adding an additional cross bar to make a 5th bay behind the drybox.


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## Pinchecharlie (Jul 27, 2017)

*Thanks!*

Wow awsome advice! 
Ok so don't scrimp on straps! 
Iam ordering the drop bag and some other fun accessories from stiches and stuff (?) Recomended here and I'll order straps from them too.
The cooler is actually "sitting" on the pipes. It has a molded 1/4 round from manufacturing and I was told it was the cool way. To be honest though it ain't all that great because the pipes kinda interfere with the latches on the cooler top. Iam bad about trusting guys at shops and buying to much stuff. Good news is it was under 300 bucks so it's a good begginers set up. Out local pro shop had yeti miss it's order last year and the owner got pissed and went over seas and made his own cooler line. He is well trusted and apparently was a inovater/Pioneer in whitewater in the 70's so maybe it's a good product? Who knows but I own it so Bob's your uncke.
I'll go ahead and use a hole saw and make strap holes in the seat and boards . I made slots last night and they are a hassle so very good advice.
I think I'll add a bar at the back just for now so if for what ever reason I might need a drastic change the side bars will still be there. Easier to remove than add right? I think there might be room for the slings that carry ammo cans or water jugs or Grover in that "bay" or I can do another drop bag? Or? I have an aluminum floor I built for standing on for fishing. What's best - a net floor, a hard floor or hanging bag off bars?
Excellent advice on all safety related items!
Iam signed up for rowing/guiding school (going to suck at 50!) And my neighbor wants to do a swift water class in the spring so I'll join in .
I have had some kinda bad experiences in whitewater as a kid and I can honestly say my family will not be doing that if I can help it and I can say no now (When I was young I couldn't)

Throw bags and raft flip bags!
No , zero, obvious entrapment hazzards and redundant systrms!!! 
To be honest I can't even imagine taking this thing down the grand canyon! So I think class 3 at moderate levels is all I aspire to do.
I surfed g-land last summer 6 times over head and was smiling from ear to ear (after it was over)
I've run off a 9k foot peak with a hang glider
And iam a beekeeper (it's scary lol!)
And Iam still way more aprehinsive about whitewater especially with my kids!!!!!
In fact iam planing a bunch of flatwatet trips first.
Ok keep the tips coming iam having fun learning!


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## kengore (May 29, 2008)

Drop bags, wood or alum. drop floors, cooler straps, mesh floors all have pros and cons. Pick what works with your gear, adjust as needed.

Sometimes the non-rigid solutions (bags, mesh etc) will deform and you get more of a round than flat bottom that wastes space. Solid floors don't drain as well, sometimes your gear gets wet. Strap hanger systems for coolers are adjustable, nice to raise the cooler a few inches to clear the lids. But they can also slip and rotate in use so the cooler starts to fit crooked in the space.

If I am carrying soft goods, dry bags and such, I would lean towards the mesh bag/floor solution. Easier to fill the nooks and crannies.

For rigid regular shapes like ammo cans and coolers I like a piece of plywood cut to size and hung from straps. The flat rigid bottom stacks better without the load shifting. A light piece of ply in the bottom of a drop bag give the same effect.


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## Roguelawyer (Apr 2, 2015)

It all looks good to me. The suggestions above are all great ideas. In my opinion you should find an easy local river, strap some camping gear on your rig and take it out for an overniter.

Pick a local river that has road access close or alongside. That way if you run into trouble you can get out fairly easy. Pick a run that is more of a day trip run but has a place on the bank where you can camp. So long as you are reasonably safe then trial and error will be a great guide. Move the cockpit forward and back and see how you like it. Try loading stuff different ways and see how the raft performs.

I happened to have hundreds of day trips in different types of craft before having an over night trip (not saying that's what should happen, that's just what happened in my case). On my first over night trip I rigged everything on the trailer not really thinking it through. I wasn't used to carrying camping gear. I strapped the bulk of the gear in from the stern when it was chest high sitting on the trailer. When it came time to unstrap everything I realized that it was extremely difficult to access the cams from my cockpit. Just a long somewhat pointless story to illustrate that you just need to get out on the water and you will figure it out.


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## Pinchecharlie (Jul 27, 2017)

Great idea! And just so happens we have done several over nights a bunch of long days. Before we just kinda through everything in because we knew the rivers and wernt worried about getting wet or whitewater. We've done alot on the Yellowstone and , big hole, Missouri and the north fork flathead. We're doing a 2 night on the main flathead below polsen in September (slipping whitewater stretch) great advice and now iam trying to move away from the car camping gear and the junk show barge and copy cating you guys! Well see how it gies but id like to maybe plan a green river through the stillwater trip for next year too? Thanks again for all the great advice and helping a people our. It's nice to be on a firm where the trolls seem to be at bay!


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## jakebrown98 (Mar 4, 2008)

Your set up looks nearly ideal for a beginner. There is lots of good advice above. I didn't peruse it all so some of this might be redundant:

I've rigged dunnage on the floors of self-bailers for over 15 years without a problem. I used to do it with coolers too, commercially. Basically that back hexagon (or whatever shape it is) should get all your drybags, stacked neatly, and cinched down to the floor. If you have a beaverboard, great! So do I and I don't use it unless I have a bunch of groover or food cans that won't fit elsewhere in the rig.

Consider stretching out that front bay to take milk crates under the seat in a lengthwise position in a dropbag. My 14er will take 3 of them that way. I have come to love the front dropbag for dishwashing stuff, fruit, bomb, handwash, firepan, etc. 

Your seat (hatch cover) can be a table which is ideal. If you glue and screw some thin verticals (thin aluminum angle or 1x2s) on the underside that ride between the two supporting crossbars everything will lock in tightly.

If you've got space for a fifth bay to take two groover can's behind the seat box they could be suspended in a dedicated drop bag or on a board (much cheaper, I use oak with three coats of Helmsman Spar Urethane).

I really prefer sitting on the cooler to sitting on a drybox. I like that I can tilt it a little and slide farther forward or backward to adjust my distance of my torso to the locks. Also, sitting on the paco pad that insulates the cooler is nice....

My locks are always aft of center and I prefer it that way.

The best news is you have adjustable crossbars and as others have said, you really just need to throw a bunch of gear in the boat and set off. I've heard tell that there are some damn fine Montana fisherman that have class V skill at the oars from all that time on their backyard class II stream. Even if you're not one of those guys, don't stress on the rig, just go do it. There are folks on here that will tinker all winter long trying to find the perfect setup for their copious amounts of equipment, tweaking this and that, and thinking thinking thinking. If that is fun for you, by all means do it. But it is not a prerequisite to getting on the water--the setup you have is more than ready for that.


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## outathaboatBruce (Mar 2, 2017)

Frequent swimmer advice.... buy the best life jacket that money can buy. The raft looks pretty sweet to me. I have seen people hold down decking with hose clamps that they put through a piece of automotive heater hose. Tactically positioned for sure,but a very economical solution. Routered edges I agree. Secured cooler for sure. Soft cooler for right now beers. Looks real nice.


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## kengore (May 29, 2008)

Hose clamps aren't tough enough for whitewater. I might use them for a rod holder or the clips on my oars but after seeing some flips in big water I wouldn't use them for decking.

Use cam straps (NRS says 1" strap has 1500 lb breaking strength, 2 wraps = 4 strands = 6k!) or the NSR stainless steel U bolts. The NRS bolts come in two length are just the right size for one or two layers of 3/4" wood.


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## DaveScott (Jul 12, 2017)

The back area looks almost perfect depth for a couple rocket boxes horizontally
+1 for the floor inflation up front
+1 for counting the number of straps you could possibly use and double it
+1 for painting the buckle or pick an obnoxious color from Strapworks... hint - nobody steals pink
+1 for using locking carabiners


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## Sherpa9543 (Jul 22, 2014)

You'll get better at it with time, or as your multiday trip progresses. Each trip/load/rig is usually slightly different. Make sure it's tight, no entrapment hazards, and think how it would perform upside down. 


Sent from my iPhone using Mountain Buzz


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## Liquido (Feb 27, 2012)

Great advice on this tread. I really like Jan's Everything bag as it's easy to load/RTF and access. Home for Whitewater Rafting, Float Fishing , Kayaking Gear

I'd also suggest having a system so on multi-day trips you can rig in under an hour. My general rig time is around 30min or less. There's nothing worse then sitting in your boat waiting to float and watching somebody take 2 plus hours to rig. I did a trip last year where this guy who thought he was an experienced boater would look at each strap as if it's his first and then spend 5min trying to figure out what to do with it. His boat was an overloaded shitshow with each morning being as if he'd never rigged a boat before. Have a system, don't bring unnecessary gear, and rig the same every morning. And do RTF! 

Have fun! Good lines and good times!


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## wildh2onriver (Jul 21, 2009)

I run my 14' with a drop bag under the table up front with a paco pad for passengers to sit on when I have them, and no bag in the front. My boat takes less then 15 minutes to load in camp and an hour to rig at the ramp.


Sent from my iPhone using Mountain Buzz


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## outathaboatBruce (Mar 2, 2017)

Top fuel dragsters hold their engines in with hose clamps. Just a little factoid. White water, 4000hp probably pretty close.


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## kengore (May 29, 2008)

If your using racing motor mount clamps at $15.00 each you might have a point. They have solid stainless steel straps with a welded screw housing.







MOTOR MOUNT CLAMP, FITS 1-3/8" SADDLE ON 1-1/4" FRAME RAIL,

The rest of us are talking about the $15 per dozen worm drive clamps at the big box store. These use a perforated strap with less than a 1/16 of solid material each side.









Not really a fair comparison.


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## MountainmanPete (Jun 7, 2014)

Also consider where you are gonna put your beer when it's time to row. Beer rigging is an important part of the entire rigging ethos. This might not seem important now, but on day 6 when your buddies are still quaffing Milwaukees finest you will be drinking powdered gatorade because you spilled 10 beers going through snagetooth and chicken raper. 

That said, there are many options. One is to cut beer can+koozie diameter holes in your deck boards above your tubes, as the tubes act as stops. There is also the beer koozie lanyard as well. This combined with a snap cap can topper makes for a beer assembly that would make Chuck Norris way jelly. It prevents the beer from getting into the river and the river from getting into the beer. Also, on long trips a day cooler is a responsible way to preserve ice. Get into your big cooler in the morning before the sun hits it and fill that small cooler. The equation for how many beers is complicated. It factors many variables such as river miles and flow, coefficients of water and wind friction, freeloading kayaker friends, etc. 

My last bit of advice is save the good beer for shore. Drink the piss on the river and you won't even notice when a little bit of Silverton, Durango, Pagosa, Aztec, Bloomington, Farmington, and Shiprocks spent wastewater treatment water gets in your beer.


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## elkhaven (Sep 11, 2013)

Welcome Charlie, 

Looks like folks have got you heading down the right path. The best advice so far (beyond the safety items) is to get out there and figure it out, which it sounds like you have some good experience. In the long run most rigs are in a constant state of evolution... as jakebrown says some folks love fussing over their rig and some folks don't...(I wonder if he was making fun of me???:roll. My guess is you're the fussing type. If so just keep messing with things, You'll figure out what works for you. Don't be afraid to try different setups - at worst you'll learn what you don't like. 

Locks - As was said most folks run their locks behind center a bit. I've found that this helps the boat track a little better; it kind of acts like a pendulum whereas having the locks at center allows the boat to pivot easier. Each are valuable, you just need to find the balance that works for your uses. 

Table/seat/bag - it sounds like you cut some slots and rounded the edges - good move, that'll also save your straps. Making the front seat into a table is a great idea, you can never have too much table space in camp but I don't really like skid guard for a table, it's hard to clean. So you can make one out of ACX or marine, or MDO - what ever floats your boat so to speak... but it can be varnished or painted i.e. smooth, easy to clean) That can be your overnighter front bench and your existing one can be your day tripper. That's a great thing about being handy - you can build options.

An option for making the table/bench hinge is to use the drop bag straps to act as your hinge straps. I just use the outer two on the bow side of the bench, then I use 2 short straps on the back to tie it closed (in case of flip). So in the end you have the bench tied down on the 4 corners, remove two straps nearest the rower's bay and you're in... There are lots of ways to do strap down tables of course, I just try to get multiple uses out of my straps. 

If you can bend pipe you can add a few inch drop to the cooler bar that sits against the latches so that they are easier to access. I wouldn't wholly trust the small molded in lip of that cooler anyways, I'd suspend it from straps, at least partially. i.e. some weight on the lip, some on the straps it's just more solid.


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## Liquido (Feb 27, 2012)

MountainmanPete said:


> Also consider where you are gonna put your beer when it's time to row. Beer rigging is an important part of the entire rigging ethos. This might not seem important now, but on day 6 when your buddies are still quaffing Milwaukees finest you will be drinking powdered gatorade because you spilled 10 beers going through snagetooth and chicken raper.
> 
> That said, there are many options. One is to cut beer can+koozie diameter holes in your deck boards above your tubes, as the tubes act as stops. There is also the beer koozie lanyard as well. This combined with a snap cap can topper makes for a beer assembly that would make Chuck Norris way jelly. It prevents the beer from getting into the river and the river from getting into the beer. Also, on long trips a day cooler is a responsible way to preserve ice. Get into your big cooler in the morning before the sun hits it and fill that small cooler. The equation for how many beers is complicated. It factors many variables such as river miles and flow, coefficients of water and wind friction, freeloading kayaker friends, etc.
> 
> My last bit of advice is save the good beer for shore. Drink the piss on the river and you won't even notice when a little bit of Silverton, Durango, Pagosa, Aztec, Bloomington, Farmington, and Shiprocks spent wastewater treatment water gets in your beer.


2 beers per river mile is a good start. I say 3 beers per river mile just because. Great post!!!


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## Pinchecharlie (Jul 27, 2017)

*Wow thanks!*

Very nice of all of you to offer such good advice! I had to pull off the raft project for a bit butt i will take yor recommendation when I get back to it. So busy with life, where to start! 
Great idea to use drop bag straps for bench straps!! Will do for sure. 
Was thinking same thing about the no slip surface and meelting it with stove so right again.
I have about ten inches of frame to spare so rocket box slings or water jugs slings will work
Which do think is more practical or what have you?
Beer thing seems to be a universal theme lol!
I make cider alot (cause i suck at brewing) how about korny keys lol!
Bad news is ,iam your one one friend who does kinda dumb [email protected]$ when he drinks!
Ok so heres a loaded question that shows my inexperience!-
What other gear do I need and where exactly do bad ass river gurus put it?
Embarrassing but true- last trip we put our stuff, sleeping bags ,tent ect ect.. in garbage bags !!
So my neighbors saying things like, each person gets a so and so dry bag and then you use a so and so to do this that and the other and then he borrowed my mower and pissed off.
So how about telling me your preferred methods of Storage and where you like to stow it! for example- i have the drop bag but iam kinda at a loss as what to put in it. I mean anything in theres getting wet right? So..?
Better example- my wife and I give each kid a _liter dry bag for their _ and then we share a_ liter bag for _ and we like to use a duffle bag/dry bag/rocket box for _?
Iam just a bit shocked and confussed at the amount of stuff out there to buy!? 
And shit o dear I think iam going to have to trouble explainng the credit card bill !
And when you are done holding my hand would you help me wipe my nose too lol!!!
Going on a short over night Friday on the Yellowstone (garbage bags and all)
Thanks again and maybe someday some of you could make some "stickies" so us tourist wouldn't clog up the interwebs!! Cheers and happy eclipse!


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