# DUI's on Gates of Ladore



## CASE

Just got off a trip on the Ladore which included my worst experience with a park ranger and just wanted to give folks a heads up. To put this in perspective the majority of the boatman were experienced class 5 boaters and i used to be the river ranger for the gunnison gorge and am not anti cop. We were loading a fair bit of alcohol for a five day float, more than we could drink because we were going straight from the take out to a wedding and in general just bought more than we needed because we had room... Anyway the ranger told us that she sent a ranger into the canyon to issue DUI's to the last group that put on with a lot of alcohol; five DUI's were issued to that group for rowing intoxicated. I asked if the people were belligerent and she said they had been drinking and because we had alcohol she was going to send someone after us in the canyon. We follow all of the rules and are a very LNT group, it sucked to go into the wilderness with the feeling that someone is coming to get you-not the experience anyone is after on this type of trip. I am an active advocate for protecting these places and even these rangers jobs with my money and my time. HIDE YOUR BOOZE AT THIS PUT IN AND AVOID THESE RANGERS!!!! you will be profiled and threatened


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## jgrebe

Sounds like a solution in search of a problem.


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## Paul the Kayaker

Did you talk to the 5 people that were ticketed? Were they breathalyzed? Were they arrested? Just wondering if there are most specifics on this, seems ridiculous that the rangers would go through this trouble because they packed a few extra beers at the put in. Were they doing anything else illegal to draw attention to them like shooting guns, or flaunting drugs, or out of control drunk? 

Really sucks this is what the rangers are spending their time doing, but something had to have started this response from them, maybe the long summer out there, isolated is messing took its toll.


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## Riverwild

That is ridiculous, I don't know why the folks at Dinosaur have to be such hard asses about everything. It seems like the key would be not to flaunt your booze at the put in as these rangers have an over critical eye. With the upcoming fee changes and possible BUIs a trip down Dino could be getting really expensive. For those interested I pasted in the CO state law below. 



Colorado State Law

"While it is not illegal to have alcohol on a boat, driving or boating under the influence (BUI) is prohibited. Colorado takes these offenses extremely seriously and a conviction for BUI is punishable by up to a year in prison, suspension of boating privileges, up to $1000 in fines, and community service. There have been recent changes to the law and the legal limit for a boat operators blood alcohol content (BAC) was lowered in 2008 by the state legislature from .10% to .08%.
Although a BUI charge is so named for “boating” while intoxicated, before you and your friends get out a Jet Ski or canoe, know that it is not just boats that you are restricted from operating while under the influence. While this was not always the case, under current Colorado BUI laws, _any_ vessel or watercraft which is physically controlled by a person under the influence of alcohol can result in BUI charges. For example, if you are operating a non-motorized canoe with a BAC of .12%, you can be hit with a charge for boating under the influence. 
BUI laws are commonly compared to charges for driving under the influence (DUI), and while the offenses have similarities, they are far from identical. In Colorado, unlike other parts of the country, boats are not included in the state definition of a motor vehicle. This means that charges for BUI are (1) not handled by the DMV and (2) are not influenced by DUI charges. Similarly, the points accumulated on your license will not be affected by potential charges for BUI."


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## CASE

I don't have any other info on the other folks but would love to hear their story. We were respectful and not drunk, but were not hiding anything-also she clarified that she issued DUI's not BUI's because ore boats are mechanical like a bicycle (apparently our kayaks and alpackas were fine to get drunk in). Drink a beer on the river-lose your license- lose your job...


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## phillersk

Yeah, that's a crock. She was trying to scare you into not being a shit show. Tell me how after you receive your citation. Do they they evac you from the river to put you process you for your eventual visit with a judge (DUI process)? They cannot release you after issuing a DUI, law enforcement has decided you are a danger to yourself and others. BUI's are designed for motorized lake dwelling craft. Convince me that a raft is more mechanized than a Bayliner. You also are NOT on a road, no federal judge would uphold that charge, also please provide a case where it worked. 100% bullshit. 



Was she an armed ranger, supervisor, or volunteer with a badge? When we did Gates this year we were told the inspecting ranger liked to sleep in. We didn't have an inspection. Dinosaur put-in/take-out rangers are usually volunteers. Their armed law enforcement is the only type that can issue a DUI (they've got a gun). If not, I would complain to Dinosaur that they have employees going way past their pay grade and trying to intimidate patrons. 99% of federal park staff cannot write a citation, much less test you for a DUI. Not to say it hasn't or couldn't happen, but I wouldn't plan on it being a "thing". Unless there were deaths associated with intoxicated boaters I don't see them putting resources into it.


I have 0 beef with those working our federal lands. Last year's Gates trip had an AWESOME ranger (volunteer) who gave us HIS bug spray because he wasn't sure if we had enough. He was great and his donation saved us in early June. It sounds like you interacted with someone who doesn't want people to be successful in her version of a river experience. Sounds like someone who shouldn't be in that position. I know you were at her mercy to get on the river, glad you persevered.


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## daairguy

I cant wait to shotgun beers at the put in!


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## protechie

CASE said:


> I don't have any other info on the other folks but would love to hear their story. We were respectful and not drunk, but were not hiding anything-also she clarified that she issued DUI's not BUI's because ore boats are mechanical like a bicycle (apparently our kayaks and alpackas were fine to get drunk in). Drink a beer on the river-lose your license- lose your job...


She's either lying or those tickets are gonna be dismissed swiftly (probably lying). A DUI can only be issued for operation of a motor vehicle. One of the key aspects of the definition of a motor vehicle is that it is primarily designed for and used on the public highways (per Colorado Revised Statutes). Obviously a raft doesn't fit that definition. By the letter of the law, you can be cited for BUI if the ranger has probable cause that you are operating a vessel (IE raft) under the influence of alcohol. Technically the ranger does not have to prove that the influence is great enough to cause unsafe operation, just that influence was present. So observing you take a sip from a cold one while rowing would technically be enough to cite for BUI. Although this is just a technicality, it is actually quite a bit more restrictive than a DUI (which requires the influence to be enough to cause unsafe operation), but the consequences are less. There are absolutely no implications for your driver's license status in a BUI (same with a DUI on a bicycle, btw). They cannot compel you to take a chemical test (PBT or otherwise), and if you refuse to take a test your refusal cannot be used as evidence against you unless you are also cited for an additional crime beyond the BUI stemming from the same incident. They also can't compel you to participate in roadside maneuvers.

So her claim of writing those folks DUIs is total BS, and it sound's like she's just intimidating and threatening with no regard to how it affects the mood of your trip. It's a shame she can't just have a reasonable discussion with people putting in about moderation, safety, etc., wish them well on their journey, and let the normal river patrols do their job if they come across people who are out of control and unsafe. For her own sanity as much as everyone else's, she should probably seek another post if this is her attitude towards very normal and accepted boating practices. To someone's point below about who can write the tickets, gun/no gun is a good rule of thumb, but there are some limited-commission rangers/officers who are authorized to write these types of violations but are unarmed.


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## CBow

This does sound suspicious. While there have been well documented issues with overzealous and frankly dickhead rangers at Dinosaur in the past ( I know first hand) our trip at the end of July this year was not one of them. The lady ranger who checked us in was obviously a commissioned officer with fire arm but was as sweet as pie and gave us no problem at the put in. I can't remember if anyone was already drinking at the time but probably so and she never mentioned it or the large amount of alcohol we were loading onto our boats. We saw several river ranger boats go by at various times during the trip but was never accosted, they just smiled and waved. Same at the take out, the volunteer gentlemen were friendly and helpful. 

If someone was actually cited for BUI on the river how would they justify giving a citation and then not removing them from the oars. 5 people cited? I would also like to hear from someone who was there.


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## B4otter

"Lodore" not "Ladore."
Something is not adding up here... don't want to excite the lawyers, and the DUI/BUI distinction is mostly irrelevant. Any LE professional needs to have probable cause to ask you to submit to a BAC or breathalyzer - that probable cause when operating a motor vehicle can range from failing a "field test" to allegedly smelling the "odor of alcohol." (If you want to pay for it, a no-holds-barred attorney can demand the arresting officer prove he/she can distinguish alcohol from other scents...)
Note this is different from the reason the LEA detains you - that can be a broken tail light on your motor vehicle, or sipping from a beer while rowing. But there has to be more to this story than folks loading "excessive" alcohol at the put-in. 
If you're staggering around during pre-trip inspection, that's one thing. An open beer 15 minutes before camp is another. Folks loading LOTS of booze @ put-in is not probable cause, and NPS flat out doesn't have the resources (budget&personnel) to dispatch a river patrol every time it happens...


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## NoCo

I got threatened just like this a few years back at the parkdale put in on the ark. What made this funny for me is we eddied for a beer at the bottom of sledge and while we were dinking a flipped cataraft came down sledge with the ranger running on the train tracks. We went to help him but the ranger yelled at us to not touch his boat. 

It is illegal to boat under the influence, a whole boat can get charged in the case of a paddle boat. Any one with a paddle can get charged. I've always worried more about being sober for shuttle cause a DUI is a new level of hurt with the recent changes to the law. 

Anyway I don't see how any of the charges on those boaters could stick since the little breathalyzer that cop carry is not admissable evidence. The breathalyzer at the jail has a much stricter calibration schedule. The doctor can also pull blood as evidence. I don't see how they could have done any of this in the canyon.

Still sucks


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## float2boat

I did a lodore trip early June. The ranger must have changed because the lady that was checking our gear also took group pictures for us... while we were pouring mimosas.


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## CASE

She was law enforcement, I did not get the impression she was lying about the DUI's, but who knows. She also had a law enforcement ranger sent to the take-out to "check up" on us-he confirmed he was sent specifically for us... He sat at the take out all day because we loaded too many beers at the put in. Tax dollars at work folk. The only reason i even put this out there was to give folks a heads up. Also remember this stretch floats from Colorado into Utah, which is all the more reason to stay off the bored rangers radar as various laws change.


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## yesimapirate

I get to attend a trip thru Lodore in the near future. So I thank you for the heads up. 

What volume of alcohol are we talking about here? 

Did you happen to inquire with the ranger what was a reasonable amount in her eyes?

I'm curious what amount of unopened beverages is her tipping point that she needs to address it with canyon-go-ers. And at what amount does she threaten a crew with stories of DUI's and putting a govt resource at the take out to twiddle his thumbs to wait on you.

I've been the permit holder, I've read the fine print on Dino's regulations several times, and never have seen a restriction related to alcohol volume. I'm sure they see their fair share of morons. So I don't see the need for bandwagon bashing. I do think there should be consistency and/or written req's if we are to get a lashing at the put in for going over some legal limit of unopened un-consumed adult beverages.

Bottom line - my crew will be aware and on "alert".


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## CASE

IDK how much we had it was a lot but we were not building beer pyramids or anything like that. Probably less than 2 30 racks per person and some cocktail stuff for a five day float. We were going to a wedding from the takeout so we brought it all. I would not sweat it too much, just keep a low profile at the put in and have a great trip. Stellar canyon


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## tanderson

Bring as much booze as you desire. Barney Fife cannot site you for lawfully having an abundance of alcohol. Just as you plan the trip months ahead, start working on your tolerance as well. If you hardly drink off river and then pound away on the water, you may experience a myriad of bad results. If you’re a light drinker, stay light on the water. 

My wife and I like to bring a 30 pack per person per day. Yes, 300+ beers for a gates trip. We also like to bring a bottle (wrapped in duct tape) to supplement. We very rarely get super drunk. 


I would like somebody that knows the party that was busted verify the facts 

Tda


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## Electric-Mayhem

The real answer is to be more covert about it. I was on a beer heavy trip recently, but most of the people kept them in their coolers so it wasn't super obvious...but maybe keep the drinking to a minimum at the put in...

Through a minor communications snafu, we realized that two groovers never made it to the river so someone had to run back to Craig to pick a few up and we ended up just hanging out at the put in for 3 hours and no small amount of beer was consumed during that time. The non LEO Ranger that checked us in came over and pulled the TL to the side and gave him a talk about "keeping the party in check and that "You can get DUI's on the river". It never seemed to go anywhere, but she definitely made it clear that she could escalate things if she wanted to (though the TL said she didn't seem to want to but felt like it was her job to say something).

So yeah, maybe if its a beer/booze heavy trip, go out of your way to not be obvious about it and maybe start the party once you turn the corner into the canyon rather then while rigging or within view of the rangers office.


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## Roguelawyer

B4otter said:


> "Lodore" not "Ladore."
> Something is not adding up here... don't want to excite the lawyers, and the DUI/BUI distinction is mostly irrelevant. Any LE professional needs to have probable cause to ask you to submit to a BAC or breathalyzer - that probable cause when operating a motor vehicle can range from failing a "field test" to allegedly smelling the "odor of alcohol." (If you want to pay for it, a no-holds-barred attorney can demand the arresting officer prove he/she can distinguish alcohol from other scents...)
> Note this is different from the reason the LEA detains you - that can be a broken tail light on your motor vehicle, or sipping from a beer while rowing. But there has to be more to this story than folks loading "excessive" alcohol at the put-in.
> If you're staggering around during pre-trip inspection, that's one thing. An open beer 15 minutes before camp is another. Folks loading LOTS of booze @ put-in is not probable cause, and NPS flat out doesn't have the resources (budget&personnel) to dispatch a river patrol every time it happens...



In my experience here in Oregon. It is pretty easy for the LEA to be able to articulate probable cause for a DUII/BUI: strong odor of alcoholic beverage, bloodshot watery eyes, slurred speach and unsteady gait it what is normally recited. Furthermore, an intoxilyzer test is not required. In Oregon, in order to be found guilty of DUII or BUI the State needs to prove that the person operated a motor vehicle/watercraft while under the influence of intoxicants. A person is considered under the influence when their mental or physical faculties are impaired to a noticeable degree.

Law enforcement will argue that an unsteady gait is proof positive that a person is impaired. 

In most of the smaller towns I have practiced juries almost never go against the officer's testimony SOMETIMES but it is rare.

It really is the nanny state run amok. Hard for me to equate driving a speedboat on a crowded lake while at a BAC of .10 to rowing a raft on a class 3 stretch of water at a .10 but that is what the law does.


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## twmartin

In a National Monument administered by the NPS federal law would apply, not Colorado BUI laws.


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## NoCo

So it would be the same in Brown's canyon? And what are the federal laws? Seems like some good beta for us all to know. Are we sure this is the case?


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## daairguy

NoCo said:


> So it would be the same in Brown's canyon? And what are the federal laws? Seems like some good beta for us all to know. Are we sure this is the case?


I have heard stories of people getting a BUI for years now, but I've never met someone who has actually gotten one on the river.


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## protechie

twmartin said:


> In a National Monument administered by the NPS federal law would apply, not Colorado BUI laws.


Interesting, hadn’t considered this and it does appear to be the case. I did some research and found the following link which explains the federal BUI. Vessel includes non-mototirized watercraft, and you cannot be issued a DUI, just BUI. But just as with the Colorado laws, the BUI is very general. Federal reg states the effects of alcohol just have to be “observable”:


https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/33/95.020


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## markhusbands

twmartin said:


> In a National Monument administered by the NPS federal law would apply, not Colorado BUI laws.


Federal law allows agencies like NPS to adopt state laws for things like traffic violations and DUI so they don't have to write all their own code and so that these units apply standards consistent with surrounding areas.


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## protechie

markhusbands said:


> Federal law allows agencies like NPS to adopt state laws for things like traffic violations and DUI so they don't have to write all their own code and so that these units apply standards consistent with surrounding areas.


This is true, but Federal lands administered by the NPS (specifically National parks and monuments) follow the federal regs, and all other federal lands follow the state laws.


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## markhusbands

protechie said:


> This is true, but Federal lands administered by the NPS (specifically National parks and monuments) follow the federal regs, and all other federal lands follow the state laws.


No, I'm specifically saying that a variety of CFRs allow for adoption of state regs, and NPS LE Rangers do use CFRs this way (36 CFR 4.2). Despite adopting the language of a state regulation, the charge comes from a federal court.

The real difference is jurisdiction, which is exclusive federal jurisdiction in most classic park settings, as opposed to concurrent jurisdiction on most lands managed by BLM or USFS and on some NPS lands. You can certainly be charged with federal charges on BLM and USFS administered lands, typically for crimes related to natural resources, archeological resources, violating the terms of a recreation permit, and so on, and you can end up in federal magistrate court for that stuff. But for most serious crimes the primary investigating agency would be the county SO and you'd end up with state charges of state administered by county courts. In a park with exclusive jurisdiction, the states and counties wouldn't touch it, and the investigation would by led by NPS with aid from entities like Park Police or even FBI.


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## lmyers

NoCo said:


> So it would be the same in Brown's canyon? And what are the federal laws? Seems like some good beta for us all to know. Are we sure this is the case?


Canyon of Lodore is a National Monument that is administered by the National Parks Service. Browns Canyon is a National Monument that is administered jointly by the Forest Service, BLM and Colorado Parks and Wildlife (Arkansas Headwaters Recreation Area State Park).

Any citations issued for infractions within the river corridor in Browns Canyon would be issued by a State Park River Ranger. I'm not totally sure how their hierarchy works, they are employed by the state and answer to the park manager (Rob White) but have to follow Department of the Interior regulations and standards of ethics....

I am not encouraging anyone to boat while under the influence, but I have never heard of anyone being issued a BUI on the Arkansas.


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## markhusbands

lmyers said:


> Canyon of Lodore is a National Monument that is administered by the National Parks Service. Browns Canyon is a National Monument that is administered jointly by the Forest Service, BLM and Colorado Parks and Wildlife (Arkansas Headwaters Recreation Area State Park).
> 
> Any citations issued for infractions within the river corridor in Browns Canyon would be issued by a State Park River Ranger. I'm not totally sure how their hierarchy works, they are employed by the state and answer to the park manager (Rob White) but have to follow Department of the Interior regulations and standards of ethics....
> 
> I am not encouraging anyone to boat while under the influence, but I have never heard of anyone being issued a BUI on the Arkansas.


Dinosaur National Monument is federal exclusive jurisdiction and therefore simple: it's all NPS presence, federal law, and federal court. Brown's Canyon is a wacky conjunction of federal and state land joined into the AHRA and then overlaid by the Monument status, which probably means nothing in terms of who does the enforcement, which is surely governed by MOUs between the three agencies. BLM site says: "The Bureau of Land Management and the U.S. Forest Service jointly manage the Monument. Colorado Parks and Wildlife (CPW), through the Arkansas Headwaters Recreation Area (AHRA), manages river-based recreation on the Arkansas River through Browns Canyon." Nonetheless, this doesn't mean that a BLM Ranger who encountered some illegal activity couldn't cite or arrest somebody on the river. It just means the state rangers are the ones actively patrolling. There's all kinds of agreements in concurrent jurisdiction areas that allow LE agencies to work together on SAR and LE activities. And let's say the State Park Ranger while on the river identified vandalized archeological resources on BLM land...they'd probably refer that to the BLM to investigate.


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## Recreation_Law

DUI in Colorado can be issued for riding a bike, riding a horse, on any type of transportation on any public or government way. Boating is the same thing. It all goes against your license also, in all states. 

Either an over zealous ranger or someone who thought they can scare you into not drinking.

A lot of the information posted is correct, but a lot is not.


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## daairguy

Recreation_Law said:


> A lot of the information posted is correct, but a lot is not.


Well, thanks for the clarification!


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## zcmyers89

I was on the trip the OP is referencing. There really wasn't even that much beer visible at the put in, the only readily visible beer was on my little 12 foot raft. The alcohol the ranger could see would have been extremely inadequate for the number of people that we had. When we got to the takeout the LEO ranger that was staring us down was going to issue us a huge citation for dumping recycling/garbage in one of the pit toilets. The ranger at the put-in that was laying on the threats about DUIs had said she was positive it was our trip that had dumped recycling in the toilets. Luckily the OP was able to convince the ranger that we are not total garbage dumping scumbags. Definitely a really stressful experience on either end of what was otherwise a perfect trip. I understand that these people deal with a decent amount of bullshit but there's no need to threaten responsible and experienced boaters that are there to relax and enjoy the canyon and then confidently blame them for something they didn't do, I'm pretty sure the fine for dumping trash in pit toilets is quite substantial.


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## Paco

Just for clarity- were you on CASE's trip, or the one before him that he was referencing: 
" Anyway the ranger told us that she sent a ranger into the canyon to issue DUI's to the last group that put on with a lot of alcohol; five DUI's were issued to that group for rowing intoxicated." ?


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## zcmyers89

Paco said:


> Just for clarity- were you on CASE's trip, or the one before him that he was referencing:
> " Anyway the ranger told us that she sent a ranger into the canyon to issue DUI's to the last group that put on with a lot of alcohol; five DUI's were issued to that group for rowing intoxicated." ?



Sorry, not the DUI trip, same trip as CASE, still don't know any details on the trip that the ranger lady was referencing


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## Brotorboat

I just got back on Saturday night. The Ranger (woman named Laura or Lauren?) who checked us in was very nice. She made a generic comment about safe boating and alcohol. Said something like, "I see some folks already enjoying alcoholic beverages, which is fine, but please make sure everyone in your group is sober while running the rapids."


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## jennifer

We launched a couple weeks ago on Lodore and it was the easiest and most pleasant ranger check-in I've ever experienced. The ranger was armed and wore glasses, but I don't remember her name. She checked that we had everything, but was very reasonable and helpful, and said nothing about the beer/booze we had. Sounds like we had a different ranger.


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## k2andcannoli

3 weeks out of the month, shes probably really nice...


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## Paco

lame


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## Phil U.

k2andcannoli said:


> 3 weeks out of the month, shes probably really nice...


And are you an asshole 4 weeks out of the month?


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## John the welder

We just got off and the lady ranger could not have been better. She wants to protect the resource and make sure everyone goes home safely. I'm on her side.


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## td

We were on a trip a few weeks ago and Lauren checked us in- she was super professional and pleasant to deal with. I'm sure there were pre-launch beers out and about but if you have your act together I don't think you'll have much of a problem with the rangers.


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## GOTY2011

Lauren went above and beyond for my group during a medical emergency in late June, transporting an injured member out to meet an ambulance halfway from Craig. She was empathetic, showed professionalism and expertise, and was straightforward in our options for launching given the several hour delay.

My daughter is a Game Warden in MT and I hope well-trained to recognize potential problems and prevent them if possible, so any steps that field professionals take to keep groups safe and keep themselves out of danger at the same time is smart and worth the interaction, IMHO.


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## k2andcannoli

Phil U. said:


> And are you an asshole 4 weeks out of the month?


To folks that think ya cant make jokes about women...ya probably. Im for equality bro...lets go boating sometime, ill ask before i try to Phil U up


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## Phil U.

k2andcannoli said:


> To folks that think ya cant make jokes about women...ya probably. Im for equality bro...lets go boating sometime, ill ask before i try to Phil U up


Keep digging.


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## CASE

k2andcannoli said:


> 3 weeks out of the month, shes probably really nice...


Don't be an internet troll, its never a good look


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## twmartin

Did anyone actually get a ticket or a charge in Gates for BUI?


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## k2andcannoli

O please im not trolling anyone, unless the ol girl we all are talking about wants to chime in and tell us why she was being a b...I guess we'll make our own conclusions. 

As far as anyone getting a bui/dui...i think it was all just a bunch of hot air. She probably just wanted to talk to some folks, it gets lonely out at that ramp.

...and if we savaged the NPS/BLM folks we didnt like on here, mtn buzz is a big enough format, I bet we could bring about positive change. If you want to give them the benefit of the doubt then expect more of the same.


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## MT4Runner

k2andcannoli said:


> O please im not trolling anyone, unless the ol girl we all are talking about wants to chime in and tell us why she was being a b...I guess we'll make our own conclusions.



You're pretty well connecting the dots and leaving little leeway for everyone to pretty well come up with a similar conclusion of you. Dude...just stop!




> ...and if we savaged the NPS/BLM folks we didnt like on here, mtn buzz is a big enough format, I bet we could bring about positive change. If you want to give them the benefit of the doubt then expect more of the same.



Yeah, just like the poster who lost their fishing license on the Selway and came here seeking justice for the meanie LEO?


I seriously doubt that bitching on here will bring about positive change.


If you have a great LEO/Ranger/NPS/BLM interaction, call their supervisor's office and tell them. Some of these people work for peanuts, and getting praise from the public and their superiors can do wonders for having them stick around and become a great career person.



If you have a bad LEO/Ranger/NPS/BLM interaction, call their supervisor's office and tell them. (and you better have minded your own manners during the interaction).


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## Creature 1

In my experience, if you feel you have been treated unfairly/unprofessionally by a LEO and want to use a public forum to complain or effect change, it is much more effective when you also post the LEO's name and badge#. There is a reason they are required to provide that information upon request.


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## Liquido

I always like it when im asked for my fishing license or other documentation while in the wilds. I wish enforcement wasn't spread so thin.


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## CASE

Creature 1 said:


> In my experience, if you feel you have been treated unfairly/unprofessionally by a LEO and want to use a public forum to complain or effect change, it is much more effective when you also post the LEO's name and badge#. There is a reason they are required to provide that information upon request.


Creature 1 do you know how to get her supervisors contact info- I tried for about half an hour before i started this (possibly pointless) thread and could not find it. I would like to provide feedback to her and her boss. She seemed like a nice enough person and i don't think she should be fired or anything, but i think some direct and polite feedback would be a good thing in the long run.

Thanks


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## Liquido

Why not just call the river office?


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## benijana

tanderson said:


> My wife and I like to bring a 30 pack per person per day. Yes, 300+ beers for a gates trip. We also like to bring a bottle (wrapped in duct tape) to supplement. We very rarely get super drunk.


noted! please let me know if you ever have an open spot on any of your trips, good sir!


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## MT4Runner

CASE said:


> Creature 1 do you know how to get her supervisors contact info- I tried for about half an hour before i started this (possibly pointless) thread and could not find it. I would like to provide feedback to her and her boss. She seemed like a nice enough person and i don't think she should be fired or anything, but i think some direct and polite feedback would be a good thing in the long run.
> 
> Thanks


https://www.nps.gov/dino/planyourvisit/gatesoflodore.htm
(435) 781-7700

And if you google _that_ number, you might come to this page:
https://www.nps.gov/dino/learn/management/staffandoffices.htm




> *Monument Staff*
> Superintendent: (970) 374-3001
> Chief of Administration: (970) 374-3010
> Chief of Interpretation and Visitor Services: (435) 781-7702
> Chief of Facility Management: (970) 374-3031
> Chief Ranger: (435) 781-7731
> Chief of Resource Stewardship and Science: (970) 374-3064
> Human Resources Office: (970) 374-3005
> River Office: (970) 374-2468
> General Information: (435) 781-7700
> Public Information Officer: (435) 781-7702


Call the Superintendent, Chief of Interpretation and Visitor Services, Chief Ranger, or HR?


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