# Serious injury today on Blackrock



## deepsouthpaddler (Apr 14, 2004)

I'm hope he's OK. I think our group saw them at the blackrock takeout scouting yesterday. Scary and sobering.


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## bobbuilds (May 12, 2007)

good work, glad to hear of first responders. I wish him well.


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## redrock438 (Sep 23, 2005)

They were from Arkansas and all solid boaters. I was driving around trying to figure out what to paddle today as I'm visiting CO only this week. I was rather surprised to see a group of folks that I knew from back east, scouting the narrows.

I spoke to one of the members of their group and he invited me to join. Unfortunately, I had just had a large lunch and wasn’t up for boating at that time. I had just ran this section with two locals last night and was fairly familiar with the lines. I offered beta and two out of the 4 in their group began their run. One of their group set a rope at Mr. Bill. The fourth member of their group had already taken out and undressed. The gentleman in question came down first and eddied out above Mr. Bill. The second boater came down with a smooth line and caught the eddy as well. Boater 2 decided to walk the hole while the victim ran the extreme right side. When he went into the second hole, he ran the meatier right side which stalled him. By this time, his friend was in his boat. The victim continued down river for approx 50 yards and attempted to catch and eddy on river right. He bumped a rock and begins to flip and make roll attempts. I yelled to his friend that he was in trouble. He proceeded down river after him. The rope holder had begun his ascent out of the gorge and I yelled to him as well. As I looked downstream, I noticed the victim was attempting rolls, many more than most would before swimming. He literally rolled for 200 yards down the gorge, turning back over each time while being pushed into one hole after another. 

By this time, I had made it to the top of the road and ran down where I could get a look. I noticed he was limp, heads down, and still in his boat. I began to run downriver but decided to run back to my car and get a pfd and helmet as I was in civilian clothes. I returned to the car, grabbed my pfd out of the back and quickly put it on. I drove 3-400 yards downstream and jumped out, grabbing my helmet and throwrope. I made my descent down the side of the gorge and into the water’s edge. By this time, the rope holder and the other boater were dragging him to shore. When he came to shore, his head was still in the water. We did a quick check for vitals and found no breathing or pulse. When I initially pulled his head out of the water and opened his airway, I noticed a short (very short) gasp. Gear was immediately cut and removed. Rescue breathing and chest compressions were started while the other boater assisted getting him out of the boat. As I recall, it took about two rounds of compressions and about 6 rescue breaths before he made a heavy gasp and began to breathe on his own. 

By this time other boaters were coming down river and we signaled for them to call 911. His breathing eventually became heavier and gurgling. We tried to get him to cough or puke up the water to no avail. He was completely unconscious during this entire time. After several minutes elapsed, his color began to return but his eyes were glossy and rolled back. 

A local fire department training in swiftwater just down the gorge was the first to respond. The victim became somewhat conscious, screaming in pain, fighting, and rambling incoherently and exclaiming that he couldnt see. They local fire helped stabilize until we could get a backboard and stokes basket in place. Local fire set up a 2:1 or a variation and helped pull him out of the gorge. A chopper was called and I’m not sure where he landed...or when he took off. 

This whole thing seemed to take forever. Thanks to all the kayakers, emergency personnel, and bystanders that helped get him out. I have no idea about his current condition. I'm praying that he pulls through it! I'll try to contact some of those guys tomorrow and post an update. Let’s all keep him in your thoughts and prayers!


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## ActionJackson (Apr 6, 2005)

As of about 11pm, he was "ok but sketchy for a while" (per boating partner). No other info.


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## craven_morhead (Feb 20, 2007)

I know we have a few nurses on the board; can anyone guess/explain why he would be conscious but unable to see?


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## JCKeck1 (Oct 28, 2003)

First, nice work by all involved, including the CCFD/SWR guys. I've pulled a commercial boater out of Gore canyon in very similar shape. No breathing, couldn't feel a pulse. Did a round or two of CPR until he started twitching and agonal breathing. Then we loaded him into a raft and continued rescue breathing until the takeout. Met a chopper, he got flown to Denver. He was in the water for less time, but probably in worse shape physically. I had lunch with him a week later and he's now married with a kid!

I'm not exactly sure of the pathophysiology about the conscious unable to see bit, but hypoxia in the brain, especially for an extended time of five + minutes can cause all kinds of brain dysfunctions. Some functions can recover before others. Also, there is a good possibility of a concussion, further complicating the situation. Five minutes is generally considered the amount of time the brain can be hypoxic before becoming fatally injured, but there are all kinds of exceptions, most notably in hypothermic cases (cold water drowning). 

All the best, get well soon.
Joe


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## chepora (Feb 6, 2008)

He probably hadn't fully regained a level of consciousness that allowed him to determine if he could or could not see. This could be a result either from head injury or simply from the lack of air for such a long time, both of which could actually result in temporary loss of vision too. Awesome job to those rescuers, its great to hear of a rescue that is successful ...was there a reason/theory as to why the victim did not punch sooner?


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## danger (Oct 13, 2003)

wow! great effort from all involved. i was soloing lower clear creek when i heard the ambulances. staying upside down in that creek is no good. i hope the paddler in question pulls through.

dan


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## ouachita (May 27, 2009)

Thanks to all of you on the rescue! James is a great guy and would have done the same for you.

Good job to everyone involved and heres to a speedy full recovery


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## CBrown (Oct 28, 2004)

Wow, I hope he is OK. I hit my head on the Slate a few weeks ago and broke my helmet and busted my head open through the helmet. He must have hit really hard to get knocked out. My helmet was 13+ years old. After going out and looking at newer helmets, I realized the padding and protection in my helmet was very thin compared to whats out there these days. I was on the fence about spending too much on a new helmet but after my experience and reading this thread, I'm sold.


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## Lazer (Jun 21, 2005)

I'm the one who was in the boat chasing him and first to get to him along with the other person in our group who was on the bank. Redrock438 joined us very quickly after. I'll post an account from my perspective later, still processing it all. 
Somewhere in the rapid he took at least one serious hit to the front of his helmet and was limp and blue when we got him out of the water. He is being treated for the head trauma and water inhalation, prognosis is good and he is awake and alert this morning. Thanks to everyone who helped us revive him.


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## caspermike (Mar 9, 2007)

i had a slightly similar physical trama experience... just not in the water... took a 35 table top/step up, took the meat of the knuckle to the left side of my rib cage, took a big bounce.. landed 10 feet down the trany and started sliding by this time i still knew what was going on but i had no ability to breath on my own for quite some time and heres my experience with shock and hypoxia... after about 30 or so seconds of downtime on the trany in agonizing pain i started getting cold fast and it almost felt like everything was turning black from the arms and legs up.. black out( my buddy was right behind me people on the lift stopped him from hitting it, threw his board up on the lip of the step up and ran down. by this time it been good 3 minutes, my bro said i was almost weezing/ choking like breathing and the legs and arms shaking, very unregular he said about at 5 minutes he said i popped up. incoherently i do remember saying "dude bro i'm tripping balls" and thats when i went unconscious again for another couple minutes shaking again, eyes rolled back,totally scaring the people riding the lift, where i regained again. this time i was able to sit up, somewhat confused i knew i just knocked the shit out of myself but ii asked my bro how long i had been out of it he said 10 minutes and to chill and that ski patrol was on the way.. i heard ski patrol and i buggied for some reason straight up stood up took a couple of steps still straped in of coarse and continued down to base full of adrenaline and natural painkillers. by the time i reached the bottom i was in the same condition i started, walking a bit to get to the ol lady to let her know what happened and walked up one of the carpets and passed out at the top, light headed, straight over, my bro had to help me up and to walk the remaining 20 feet to where i knew i fucked some shit up... couple months later ribs are still not 100%... as far as being unconscious i was still conscious in the brain...i remember it was just like a dream some weird and random thoughts but overall it was like coming out of the middle of a super intense boomer trip. oxygen loss is no fun lots of shit happens iim sure the shock of the hit put me into shock and thats the reason for the hallucenagenics but man on man what an experience...

hope you are okey brah... get back out there when you feel like it.. 

power to the bros that were involved. you guys are fucking awsome!


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## KSC (Oct 22, 2003)

I'm really sorry to hear about the accident. We met your group out there the other day and everybody was super friendly and psyched to be in Colorado boating. Great job to all involved in the rescue and best of luck on a fast and full recovery.


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## craporadon (Feb 27, 2006)

Vibes to all involved, so good the outcome was much better than it could have been because people were around and on top of it. Hopefully we can all learn from it.

As far as waking up fighting, I had a similar experience to Casper, except I was standing on a 90 foot table top and Tanner Hall caught an edge going off and dropped 40 feet out of the air straight down to flat on the table top on his side. He was out cold for over 1 minute of us slapping him and trying to get him to wake up. When he did, he was literally swinging at us and swearing like you would'nt believe. He did this for 10 minutes till he sort of came to and felt bad for being so combative.


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## jonny water (Oct 28, 2003)

It is possible that a full-face helmet could have prevented this incident. Anyone paddling class V, especially the mank here in Colorado should do everything they can to get one of these. I, for one, am going to look at one today.

Great to hear that James (Robinson) is recovering. I am hopeful and am praying for you bro! Great job to all involved. I wish we could have made things happen quicker, but nobody was freaking out and everyone was respectful.

Please keep us posted as the situation progresses.

Jon


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## deepstroke (Apr 3, 2005)

It's a good thing he wasn't soloing or he'd be dead. I sometimes solo difficult whitewater, but now I'm thinking I should quit that practice. I do feel much more confident bombing a run with a solid crew. I'm glad he was with good peeps. Here's to a speedy recovery.


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## okieboater (Oct 19, 2004)

*feedback*

Some one on the board asked about the not seeing but being conscious.

Back in 1991 January, I had a similiar river kayaking situation except I was under water for estimated 10 to 15 minutes.

CPR is what brought me back around.

First thing I remember on coming back to life is the pain. Felt exactly like I have heard a heart attack feels in that my chest felt like a football player was stomping on me.

Next I could hear my buds talking and attempted to talk back and tell them I was ok. Shortly thereafter my limbs started working and I was trying to both talk and stand up. My buds said I was talking but words were not complete and I was shaking violently and crawling around.

I finally got up right and started stumbling around not in control.

Finally, I could see and things started working better. I got very arguementative and wanted to get back in my boat. One of my buds finally got in my face and told me to shut up and get in the front of another Bud's solo canoe with deflated air bags and they would take me across the river to a road that ran along the river. I calmed down and did as I was told.

Finally, my Bud Jon Harrison took me too the hospital where they stripped me bare and hooked up oxygen and all sorts of heart and blood pressure monitors. Some time in the AM they got my oxygen percentage in my blood where they wanted it and let me shower and go to sleep just hooking up the oxygen and a heart monitor.

James experience sounds a lot like what happened to me.

The icey cold water helped me a lot according to the doctors. 

Looking back coming back to life was a lot harder than going under.

My take is when the brain wakes back it has a sequence of things it can do. The simpler things get working first. Seeing must take a lot more brain power than the other physical things we do.

My heart goes out to James and I am glad he made it.

My thanks go out to those who helped him when he could not help himself.

One of the greatest things about boaters is we look out after each other, no matter what.

Again, thanks guys for taking care of one of our own.


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## deepsouthpaddler (Apr 14, 2004)

Lazer mentions a hit to the helmet while upside down. Was there any indication that the hit was to the forehead or the face that caused unconciousness, or did it seem like a shot to the helmet only? Any idea what type of helmet he was wearing?

Hopefully a good whitewater helmet can take a big hit without knocking a boater out. I have heard a few stories about boaters getting knocked out when hitting rocks with their helmets. For the sake of safety analysis it would be interesting to know what types of helmets, foam and padding were being worn in these types of accidents. It would also be nice to use some of this data to strive for continuous improvement in helmet energy absorption and dissipation, foaming protection etc. I've noticed a huge variation in the amount of foaming and energy absorption between various helmets.


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## jonny water (Oct 28, 2003)

He had a noticeable mark between his eyes that was about an inch long and extended up his forehead slightly. He also had at least one tooth knocked out (I saw a tooth in the back of his throat and blood in his mouth) indicating that he took a face shot. I picked up a helmet on shore to shade his face while waiting for emergency personnel and I am assuming that this was his helmet. I am pretty sure it was a camouflage WRSI helmet (not a full-face helmet).


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## GAtoCSU (Apr 18, 2005)

Any hard hit on the head can affect your vision (Optic nerve damage, lens separation, occipital lobe injury, etc). Being hypoxemic can also result in visual disturbances and/or acuity loss (more of a perfusion issue though). I've seen data that suggests neuronal injury follows a cardiac arrest and/or hypoperfusion state, which may injure several nuclei in the midbrain (relay center for vision, hearing, sensation, etc). 

As for the pain... CPR results in the breakage of 3-4 ribs/side of the body. It's not a pleasant or gentle event. When the patient regains consciousness, he is most likely writhing in pain b/c of these breaks. It's also possible to disrupt the pleural cavity during CPR by introducing a rib through the pleura, which could cause the lung not to inflate properly, and subsequent ventilation issues.

It sounds like you guys did everything that could have been asked of you. Cutting the top off was a great idea, one that is often not remembered in the wild.

I hope that he makes a full recovery!

Scott
Medical Student


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## jonny water (Oct 28, 2003)

I noticed that during the rescue, James remained at shore with some portion of his body in the river and people were supporting his back and neck. I thought that maybe the cold water was good in this situation although I know that you are supposed to cover someone that is in shock and keep them comfortable. What is best? He was not shivering.


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## GAtoCSU (Apr 18, 2005)

Out of the water and on a flat/hard surface. Keep him warm as well.

Cold water can help minimize the damage from an acute event, but it'll take down a trauma patient in a hurry. In a patient like the one above, the most important thing is to get an airway and try to restore a normal rhythm. I just had my life support training, and the big emphasis is being placed on a 30 + 2 series (compression to ventilation) for 5 cycles before you recheck for a pulse. The temperature issue is not the most pressing issue facing a person in a situation such as above. 

However, if you had an incident like this that wasn't roadside, once/if the patient starts spontaneously breathing (effective breathing) and has a pulse, keep him warm until help arrives.


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## shanshaw (Jul 1, 2010)

Just spoke with James and he has been released from the hospital and is doing well. He has no broke ribs from the CPR, He is not missing any teeth (that he was not already missing ) and has no major marks on his head or face. So besides a little sore neck and just not feel sassy, he is good.

I have seen pics of the helmet (camo shred ready,shaggy or super scrapy)and it did its job as best it could. Damage was located on the front crown. It took a major hit and has enough damage, that he will want to get a new one. But it looks like Shred Ready is hooking him up on that and wants the story and some pics of helmet. 

His paddle was lost and went on down river, so if anyone finds a black, graphite Werner bent shaft, post up here and I will get you in contact with him.

EMT's or ER folks cut off his Stohlquist drysuit (to shreds), his new gloves, his sprayskirt, and lifejacket. So he has his booties and his boat and a bill for a helicoptor ride in his future... but he is not complaining.


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## GAtoCSU (Apr 18, 2005)

Fantastic! Glad to hear that he is doing well.


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## jonny water (Oct 28, 2003)

Great to hear...what a relief, thank God. I was hopeful that because he was kind of communicating with us, saying things like, "where am I?, I can't see? and other random things that he was cognitive enough that he might be alright. I am really amazed that he spent that much time underwater and is OK!

Tooth: we saw something in the back of his throat and thought it was a tooth, could have been something he spit up. 

Blood: there was a small amount of blood in his mouth, maybe he spit it up.

Forehead mark: maybe this was already there?

Helmet: Camo Shred Ready, sorry....thought it was a WRSI.

I have someone's carabiner that came off of the black webbing and would like to give it back to the owner.

Way to hang in there James!


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## Don (Oct 16, 2003)

*Get well soon*

I met James on Tuesday at Golden. Seemed like a super nice guy. Get well soon and I hope you have a quick recovery.


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## shanshaw (Jul 1, 2010)

jonny water said:


> Great to hear...what a relief, thank God. I was hopeful that because he was kind of communicating with us, saying things like, "where am I?, I can't see? and other random things that he was cognitive enough that he might be alright. I am really amazed that he spent that much time underwater and is OK!
> 
> Tooth: we saw something in the back of his throat and thought it was a tooth, could have been something he spit up.
> 
> ...


Kind of looks like I was picking on you, did not mean to. Was just trying to comment on some specific things I asked James about after reading on here. I was not there and am not in CO so all of this is from phone conversations.

He does have a mark on his forehead, but said it was minor and they think it was from the helmet rim getting jammed back/down ???? In his self portait on Facebook this morning the mark is not obvious. From what they can gather and see on the video (some video of the beg. of his run only) they think he ran the drops clean and on-line, caught an eddy a little low, got flipped washing out the back and took a head shot then. All the roll attempts came as he was slipping into unconciousness.

I would guess the carabiner belongs to Lance (Lazer). He usually has black webbing and a biner. Him and James have headed back over to the Arkansas River area (BV) to meet back up with some other friends. I would say hang on to it and Lance will get in touch if it is his. 

James thinks he might even try to boat a little before they head home on Sunday!


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## ActionJackson (Apr 6, 2005)

shanshaw said:


> EMT's or ER folks cut off his Stohlquist drysuit (to shreds), his new gloves, his sprayskirt, and lifejacket. So he has his booties and his boat and a bill for a helicoptor ride in his future... but he is not complaining.





shanshaw said:


> James thinks he might even try to boat a little before they head home on Sunday!


Well shoot, that gave me a visual of him boating just wearing those booties and it ain't good! Ha ha. Seriously, hope it works out for him to boat a little on Friday. 

There are really several good stories in this thread. First, we were alerted of the incident, then more info and details were added. Skilled paddlers and caregivers were in the right place at the right time to do the right thing, with lots of people sending out well-wishes and positive thoughts afterwards. Reminded that bad things can happen to good boaters, even on an "everyday" run. Learned a little about physiology and the body's response to trauma. Most important, we had a great outcome from a REALLY close call - as good or maybe better than we could have hoped for. 

Bottom line: a caring, competent, and compassionate community. Does a heart good.


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## sealion (Oct 13, 2008)

Riveting reading.
Glad it turned out for the best. 
Sorry about the gear- if you don't get your paddle back(shameless plug coming up) I have a Double diamond bent shaft 194cm for sale in ads.
Man that rescue stuff seems to take forever when its happening, but you just can't seem to make it go faster. Good job to all present.
I just want to add a caveat -this thread will get a lot of exposure- one of my pet peeves- obviously he had not been drinking alcohol. Only a little bit of drinking makes that throat closure thingy not work. No alcohol means rescue breathing can work, alcohol means it won't. People I boat with save the beer for the stories at the takeout, but I see plenty of people having one at lunch- makes me nervous.


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## Phillips (Feb 19, 2004)

Could be alot of things. . . hard to know?



JCKeck1 said:


> First, nice work by all involved, including the CCFD/SWR guys. I've pulled a commercial boater out of Gore canyon in very similar shape. No breathing, couldn't feel a pulse. Did a round or two of CPR until he started twitching and agonal breathing. Then we loaded him into a raft and continued rescue breathing until the takeout. Met a chopper, he got flown to Denver. He was in the water for less time, but probably in worse shape physically. I had lunch with him a week later and he's now married with a kid!
> 
> I'm not exactly sure of the pathophysiology about the conscious unable to see bit, but hypoxia in the brain, especially for an extended time of five + minutes can cause all kinds of brain dysfunctions. Some functions can recover before others. Also, there is a good possibility of a concussion, further complicating the situation. Five minutes is generally considered the amount of time the brain can be hypoxic before becoming fatally injured, but there are all kinds of exceptions, most notably in hypothermic cases (cold water drowning).
> 
> ...


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## caspermike (Mar 9, 2007)

seen two boaters get knocked out but just for a couple secs each. one on bluegrass main event, he flipped at the lip and went upside down over the stout hit his head on the shelf floated up and ended up swimming, second one was a boater on deer creek hit his head while in a hole washed down another hole and swam out. both were not moving for a period of about 15 seconds. knock out while wearing a helmet... very possible! they more or less spread the inpact. you hit your self when you got your helmet on you still feel it.. ps man i got a dry top for you. used but free


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## Lazer (Jun 21, 2005)

Here's my account and thoughts:

A group of four kayakers (3 from Arkansas and 1 from Missouri) had been boating for several days in CO. Started in the Arkansas Valley with runs on Royal Gorge, Numbers, Browns. Then moved up to Clear Creek with runs on Dumont, Coors Falls and Lower. On Tuesday we scouted the Blackrock section and on Thursday put-in at Kermits for an upper/blackrock combo.

We were having a good day and everyone was boating well. We stopped and scouted Blackrock rapid once again, ran it and contined down to the Narrows and got out to scout under the bridge. While scouting, two decided not to run the upper part of the rapid and we also talked to Redrock238 who had pulled over, after seeing our vehicles at the pullout with our shuttle drivers. James and I went back down to run the rapid. One of our group set up safety with a rope at Mr. Bill. Redrock238 was farther up the hill watching. 

We made it down to the eddy just above Mr. Bill, I hopped out to look at it from river level and decided to not temp the hole. Got back in my boat in the small river right eddy between Mr. Bill and the next drop. Got my camera out and watched James run the right side of Mr. Bill and the next drop without problems. I put the camera back in my PFD and heard Redrock328 say the James was over. I peeled out ran headed downstream, shortly I saw him right side up near the left cliff. I continued downstream to catch up. As he dropped into the next wave/hole he flipped and attemped several rolls throughout the remainder of the rapid. (5 to 7?) I kept charging forward and eventually got downstream of him in anticipation of a swim. I was thinking something was wrong (blown skirt, knee out of thigh brace or something else complicating the rolls) as he was more struggling for breaths than really rolling. 

At the bottom of the rapid, he fell over from his last roll attempt and almost immediately the paddle floated away, I thought 'ok watch for him', then no boat wiggle or visible helmet. Panic started to set in. I charged his boat yelling his name and hoping he would grab my bow and roll up. After a couple of bumps, I noticed he was hanging limp and then went into full bulldozer mode to push him toward the right bank. I noticed the other person in our group running down the guardrail and motioned for him to come down and continued pushing James' boat. James finally stopped in the shallow water about 25 yards above the island, the current carried me a few more yards down before I could stop, just infront of the log in front of the island. I hopped out and shoved my boat into the log and scrambled back upstream.

The other member of our group had made it down the embankment and out to James at the same time I was able to scramble back up to him. We rolled him up, he was blue and unresponsive. We quickly administered a couple of chest compressions and checked for pulse, then grabbed him and the boat and scrambled the 15-20 yards over to the bank. Redrock238 had made it down to us just as we got him to the bank. The three of us administered a couple rounds of CPR then James started showing signs of shallow breathing and light pulse. Shortly after, we signaled on of our shuttle drivers to call 911, which was already in progress by flagging down some passing motorists who headed downstream for service.

We continued to work to stablize him as another boater joined in and followed shortly by the first rescue personnel. It was suspected at the time that he had a head injury in conjunction with the drowning. Work continued to further stabilze him and then lift him up the steep embankment and on to the hospital.

Thankfully all worked out and his head trauma was minor and didn't get a lot of water in his lungs. He was released about 24 hours after arriving at the ER. Hard to say, but I think it was 2 minutes or less from the time he flipped over last to the time we got him over and the first chest compression.

After looking at the little bit of video from our shuttle driver, it appears James tried to eddy out on river right a little below the drop below Mr. Bill, just before the river cuts back to the left toward left cliff. He slipped out of the back of the leaky eddy and flipped hard into the rock on the bank. He rolled up and made it a little farther downstream, which is the point I first saw him. I think this is the hit that knowed him loopy but no out. He ran out of breath and passed out downstream after the roll attempts.

Thanks for all who helped!


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## ActionJackson (Apr 6, 2005)

Cool follow-up to this story...check it: Boating Community Rallies Around Injured Kayaker

Good on these companies - and boaters - for helping out!


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## us75n (Jul 12, 2010)

*ME...*

Hello to everyone... 
I am James ...thank's to all that were there and all that have taken the time to read. I will save you the lacking version of mine regarding this incident. 
I just want to let everyone know what is going on from this end... my(Arkansas paddler's "ROCK") local paddle group has collected funds to replace all gear and to help with the medical bills(WOW), I know this part has been the hardest for me to handle. Never have I experienced such out pouring from so manycry: tears pour when I think of it). Several of the gear companies have also taken action to help me recover and I will post more regarding this soon.

Thanks again,
James


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## Swank (Jun 20, 2009)

us75n said:


> Hello to everyone...
> I am James ...thank's to all that were there and all that have taken the time to read. I will save you the lacking version of mine regarding this incident.
> I just want to let everyone know what is going on from this end... my(Arkansas paddler's "ROCK") local paddle group has collected funds to replace all gear and to help with the medical bills(WOW), I know this part has been the hardest for me to handle. Never have I experienced such out pouring from so manycry: tears pour when I think of it). Several of the gear companies have also taken action to help me recover and I will post more regarding this soon.
> 
> ...



It's so awesome to see you posting here and still with us.


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