# MFS: Dagger has to be run for good form to be claimed, right?



## BmfnL (May 23, 2009)

Gonna get my first Middle Fork on this summer and I want to kick it off with Dagger Falls. Is there a way to put in with rafts/cats right at the falls or do I have to run ten miles of creek?


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## jrice345 (Jan 11, 2011)

There is a campground at Dagger Falls and you can launch above the falls from the parking lot. When is your trip? The road to Boundary Creek can be snowed in until late May or early June. 

Jason


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## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

Run Marsh, it is sweet. You run the creek for about 5 miles, then hit the MF for about another 5. I did it for the first time last year, and it was only at about 4'. I was told at higher levels that upper section of the MF is just filled with tons of Lochsa like waves. I'm looking forward to it again this spring!

I guess this depends on levels, 4' on Dagger was getting a bit munchy, and some boat-tearing rocks supposedly come out at lower levels. I wouldn't bother running Dagger if I wasn't running Marsh.


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## fdon (Jul 23, 2008)

Be advised that a spring Marsh run can be either a sweet and exciting run or one that takes equipment and lives. A friend with years of high water boating bout lost his life last year in Marsh. The wood report from the day before was all clear but they still had major carnage in a new log jam. As it was, all parties came out safely but they lost gear and had to take-out above Dagger. I would do it still. Friend said no way even though he had the run under his belt a few times before.


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## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

What date was that?


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## fdon (Jul 23, 2008)

Hi Laura, if your asking bout my tale, it was in late May. Don


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## BmfnL (May 23, 2009)

We launch June 17th. It will be big and munchy indeed.

Good info as always, buzzards. My entire party is probably not into Dagger Falls, so running all of Marsh involves separation anxiety. Good to know there is a put in at the Dagger CG. Like biking to work, I could be "one less boat" at the Boundary ramp, and get a thrill out of the falls. I talked to a sage old co-worker who used to run MFS back in the day. He said running Dagger was mandatory before the ramp. If he did it in the 80's in patchy rubber I really have no excuse.


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## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

I think you're getting some testosterone overdosing out of your coworker. I'm 95% sure they used to put in below dagger, even when that was the only campground (no boundary). Are you in a raft? Carrying a raft to above it seems like a lot of work, darn near a portage. I could be remembering wrong, but I recall a small trail from upstream, up a hill, lots of shrubs and places to stumble, and it didn't look like a fun portage. Much easier access to below, although steeper but closer and more open. 

Mid June, you're bound to be well after the regular peak and not too bad but you never know what the spring and rain will bring. At 4' it looked downright MEAN. Very vertical and potential to pencil in. I wasn't keen on running, but then I watched my friends and it was very straightforward.


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## Alphacyber (Mar 18, 2010)

Sure, it was straightforward for you, lhowe. You had the advantage of knowing what not to do after seeing me break 2 ribs when I thought I was out of the woods. 

And to chime in on running dagger before the ramp, that's an exaggeration. In fact, there used to be a ramp right below dagger, before the boundary creek launch was developed. It might have been mandatory before the road and fish ladder were built in 1960, but not after that.


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## GoodTimes (Mar 9, 2006)

Things are nice and wet up here and the snow pack looks pretty good. I think the headwaters area scored about 12-18" in the past 24....but that doesn't mean it's gonna be big come mid-June.

Marsh is awesome...and upon the confluence, the run down to Dagger is friggen great...send kayakers ahead with two-ways. Boundary should be open by then though. Unloading at the closest point and putting in above Dagger shouldn't be a big deal if you really want to run it.

I've rowed it 5 times above 6'....looked at it at around 4' and didn't think it was worth it.

Hope it's flowin' good for ya, it's the funnest damn rapid I've ever rowed!!


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## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

Yeah, I don't think I even let my right oar get anywhere near the water on the second drop! No way was Neptune going to smack me too! Er, at least maybe not in the same way.

You missed a great Wind weekend, 7.3' and 7' Stabler! It's looking like another one is coming up!


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## jrice345 (Jan 11, 2011)

Last year we launched on May 15th. The gauge at the MF Lodge was 3.3 ft. The water was too low to run Marsh. And the daggers at the bottom of Dagger Falls looked like they would have torn a swimmer or boat to shreds. So, after dragging our boats down 5 miles of Marsh, we portaged the falls. 

Thank the river gods for the layover day at Trail Flats and the awesome hotsprings!

This year we have a May 22nd permit and we're debating on Marsh.


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## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

We're launching on Marsh on the 21st, have a blast!


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## WillVolpert (Apr 16, 2008)

The old launch used to be immediately after Dagger. Another option is putting in at Fir Creek Campground on Bear Valley Creek. It's a little bit of a shorter run than running all of Marsh. And it would be easier than putting in at the top of Dagger. And there is an awesome hot spring just a mile or so after you put-in.


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## jrice345 (Jan 11, 2011)

Are there still logs on Bear Valley Creek just upstream of the confluence with Marsh Creek?


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## WillVolpert (Apr 16, 2008)

It has been six or seven years since I have put-in there so I'm not sure what the current wood situation is. If you are putting in on Marsh due to the road being snowed in then Bear Valley Creek is not an option.


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## raftus (Jul 20, 2005)

Last year the river wide blockage of logs was still on Bear Valley Creek if my memory serves me. We launched May 18th 2010 and ran down Marsh, close to 4.5 and rising on the gauge. Got stuck several times on Marsh, but were able to push off each time and got down Marsh in a fairly easy day (late launch - 12:45 pm, got to dagger by 5 pm or so). 

Dagger is a serious rapid and only you can choose after scouting it if it's right for you to run. The portage trail is very well established. Personally after looking at it I have decided to run it several times per trip. My raft, other peoples rafts, and a shredder so far  All but one of the runs have been smooth, when in doubt go further left than right!


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## Rich (Sep 14, 2006)

lhowemt said:


> We're launching on Marsh on the 21st, have a blast!


 
We're launching on Marsh Creek May 31. 
Will you be on the Lochsa Memorial Day Weekend?


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## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

Rich said:


> We're launching on Marsh Creek May 31.
> Will you be on the Lochsa Memorial Day Weekend?


You bet! We take off Thursday and will be at WG. Campsites C23 & C24.


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## Ben Bade (Aug 14, 2009)

Hey there Laura, Josh was telling me about your MF-main trip. That sounds like an excellent trip and what an awesome way to end it on the lochsa! We're trying to run the Illinois this weekend if the flows cooperate.


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## carvedog (May 11, 2005)

Even back in the day guides weren't that stupid. I am sure that some of the guys would get all worked up and carry a boat or two to above the drop. Not great access as has been mentioned but it is downhill. That way when you stumble your stuff goes right to the boat.

It seems like the rapid would be a good boat ripper at low flows too. I think they winched boats down that lower embankment at the downstream end of bench.

Usually my first strokes of the year are out of the eddy at Boundary and I am ok with that. Plus I have nothing to prove and I am a pansy. I always take the easiest lines. It's ok to be there I just don't need to get too riled up about it. 
If I knew my first stroke of the year was about 50 feet above the drop in Dagger I would piss my pants. Go for it though if you feel you must. Set safety and kayaks below. There has been lots of flips at Dagger and most get put back together by the ramp or at the ramp.


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## slamkal (Apr 8, 2009)

Anyone know roughly what date the boundary creek put in becomes unstaffed and you have to do the check in at the Indian airstrip???


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## raftus (Jul 20, 2005)

Boundary's unstaffed until the road opens, and again after the water drops and most people start flying into Indian - vaguely mid-August - depends heavily on flows. The check in at Indian is easy, float into the eddy and walk up to the ranger hut on the runway - or at least it has been the two times I've done it early season.


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## Rich (Sep 14, 2006)

lhowemt said:


> You bet! We take off Thursday and will be at WG. Campsites C23 & C24.


Saw the other post about MFS & Main. Is your plan to do both before Memorial Day? See you on the Lochsa!!!


Is it to early to start guessing when the road will open and when the river will peak?


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## dgosn (Sep 8, 2006)

Rich said:


> Is it to early to start guessing when the road will open and when the river will peak?


Seems like the MFS peaks on the day I am supposed to launch... But i didn't get a permit or invite this year, so another high water cancellation is in the cards. 

My guess is a peak of May 28th at 7.1ft, but I would like to see 8.0; at least I think i do....... Last year at 7.3ft was awesome.

I should be at WG as well, in the B-loop. I can't remember the site, but it's next to Mttodd, which is good I know he'll be stocked up on rum.


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## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

Hey Ben-

I think we're back to just a 6 day MF trip, 7 for MF/Main would be a bit too much and would split our group up (which I don't want to do).

Illinois? Damn, have fun, that is on my list for someday. It's like 16 hours of driving for me (although would probably include carpooling from hood river or portland with others), and I am trashed from driving the last two weekends. With it's variable nature (even more so than the Wind I hear) it might be a while before I get it. I'd like to do a back to back, if I'm going to drive that far, why not run it twice if the levels hold?

See you Memorial Day! She should be HUGE.

L


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## jrice345 (Jan 11, 2011)

We were supposed to run the Illinois this weekend too. Forecast is for rain and water levels will be spiking the next few days. Boo...


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## jmcdannel (Apr 22, 2009)

I really hope the forecast is wrong, but I'm probably out of luck. We're running the Rogue instead if the prediction holds.


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## jrice345 (Jan 11, 2011)

The Rogue looks to get interesting on the 31st. The predicted water level jumps from approx. 5500 cfs (@ Grants Pass) to 17,000 cfs. Never boated it that high before. Have fun.


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## fiya79 (Feb 9, 2010)

IMO Dagger does not have to be run for a trip to be done in good form. For many water levels it just doesn't make sense to bother. I think most people indicated this.

Once you get there and see the shit storm that is boundary launch it just makes sense to rig and get out of the way instead of splitting the group, humping gear down to the launch and potentially blowing all of the plans to hell by screaming past boundary upside down, ripped or otherwise incapacitated. Even if you are comfortable on that rapid and things look good just consider the fact that you face 100 miles of decent rapids, excellent fishing, hot springs and scenery. Adding one more drop just does not change the trip significantly.



I have launched twice in august 12th and 15th. Rangers at boundary both times. The first time had a fairly thorough gear check and safety talk. The second time it was very cursory. Both were solo trips with minimal gear.
at 1.75 on the gauge I never had to drag my boat or get my feet wet against my will. go light, have fun, , run soft tubes and be prepared to dodge lots of rocks.

At june flows take what you want and be ready to deal with flips and swims in the top 20 miles.

I've never run marsh. sounds like fun to me.


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## Rich (Sep 14, 2006)

dgosn said:


> Seems like the MFS peaks on the day I am supposed to launch... But i didn't get a permit or invite this year, so another high water cancellation is in the cards.
> 
> My guess is a peak of May 28th at 7.1ft, but I would like to see 8.0; at least I think i do....... Last year at 7.3ft was awesome.
> 
> I should be at WG as well, in the B-loop. I can't remember the site, but it's next to Mttodd, which is good I know he'll be stocked up on rum.


 
Scott,

We have a June 1 MFS, driving down from Memorial Day Lochsa.
Small, experienced group of Colorado catboaters, all like it big.
Plan is to do Marsh/Dagger. Interested?

Richard


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## holstis (Nov 11, 2008)

I have a a June 4th launch. At this point it seems Marsh is the only option. I have run from boundry in June and late May with no problems. Marsh makes me a little uneasy. I would have at least one kayaker and if flows are right would plan on running dagger in a 16ft cat.


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## David L (Feb 13, 2004)

Dagger was a blast to run, especially after we made it fine below it after the anxiety of thinking about it during the approach. But, it was more gratifying that we did it after coming down Marsh, rather than putting in just to do Dagger.

As for the whole Marsh run, others have posted good info about the nature of the run. I'll just add my two cents about being sure that you can maneuver your boat quickly. When you come around the bends and see what's ahead of you you'll have little time to react!


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## carvedog (May 11, 2005)

holstis said:


> I have a a June 4th launch. At this point it seems Marsh is the only option. I have run from boundry in June and late May with no problems. Marsh makes me a little uneasy. I would have at least one kayaker and if flows are right would plan on running dagger in a 16ft cat.


If you are nervous you could plan a fly in option. Instead of $250 plus $100 for gas, fly out of Salmon in an Islander. 206s are $490 and an Islander is $790. The Islanders hold a ridiculous amount of gear. 
Guessing a couple hardshells, your cat and three or four people would go in one pretty easy. We did two of us, our sweep boat and a bunch of other crap. 

206s out of Challis are around $350. Pretty sure you would need at least two even for a smallish trip. 

With a fall back plan you can relax a bit. It obviously adds some cost but also peace of mind. Marsh is no place to be if not totatlly comfortable with your crew and the level. 

Good luck.


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## pearen (Apr 28, 2007)

May 1st Idaho snowpack report is out today:
Snow Survey Program | Idaho NRCS

Some of my favorite quotes:
“125 - 250% of average streamflow predicted across Idaho for the May - July period.”
“River runners and hard-core whitewater experts should get ready for a tsunami of a snowmelt runoff season.”
“Peak streamflows could be very high and depend on spring temperatures, consecutive hot days, non-freezing night temperatures, and if rain falls when the snow is melting.”

LHowe, Bogdan, McDannel - I may be launching on May 21st as well. 
Richard, I also have a May 31st, we should have coordinated, maybe we will jump on your 30th. Anyway, I will be at the lochsa for memorial.
Raftus, you headed out?

Selway early June should be rocking!

And finally, here is the requisite video from spring break 2009:
_Dagger Falls_, Middle Fork Salmon River on May 19, 2009
www.*youtube*.com/watch?v=QcbBKoOQ-VQ


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