# DIY Groover options



## Chewbacca (Nov 1, 2005)

I am thinking of making my own groover for upcoming MF Salmon and John Day trips this summer. I know about all the commercial options (they're all great and all are at least $350+ with an extra tank, so simply can't afford that this year with other gear need to buy this year).

Right now I am thinking two 20mm ammo cans and a toilet seat, but never actually done that without the eco-safe inserts. 

How does the toilet seat fit on the can/what type of toilet seat? 
On the MFS requirements page they mention sanding out and painting the inside of the ammo can and coating with a non-stick spray. Any recommendations on type of paint for this? 
Let's hear some shiat ideas...


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## Wadeinthewater (Mar 22, 2009)

You could go the heavy, sharp ammo can route or get a 5 gallon bucket and a Luggable Loo seat. Bonus - Doesn't cost much.


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## Electric-Mayhem (Jan 19, 2004)

All you really need is a durable sealed container and a seat. Seat is a relative term... depends on how much you like the other people on the trip I suppose.

I've seen more then a few rocket boxes with a DIY toilet seat. The whole plastic container like an ecosafe part is completely optional really...as long as you have a way to clean the thing out. Most of the Grand Canyon painless private companies do it that way. A piece of aluminum with a couple bends and seat screw on.They provide a riser once the tank fills up so you aren't having TP and the stuff on it tickling your behind as you go. I've seen it done with 2x4's too. Maybe make it out of something that can get wet, then just put it a mesh bag so you can rinse with ease.

I've been on a number of trips that just use wag bags and a 5 gallon bucket with a gamma seal lid. You can get at least 3-5 uses out of each bag. and they can store in the bucket after use.

I did a Dolores trip a while back and just brought a rocket box and some foam plumbing insulation with a slit cut in it (the round stuff for going over pipes) and it did the trick. Just about as cheap as you can go.


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## BenSlaughter (Jun 16, 2017)

I prefer just a rocket box with a seat. Never cared for the funnel\shelf aspect of the ecosafe vault.

I've gotten by with the crappy(pun!) seat that came with my 5 gal bucket system, but it's not ideal. Need to just get one from a big box store that's light weight. I like the notion of a riser...


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## Electric-Mayhem (Jan 19, 2004)

I agree about Ecosafe...its my least favorite. Of the commercial ones I definitely prefer the Johnny Partner, then the Selway, then the Coyote. Plain ole rocket box with a decent seat is probably between Selway and Coyote.

The riser definitely allows you to fill it higher. Found a picture of the GC groovers with a riser installed... I know CEIBA, PRO and CanyonREO all use these....


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

Back in the day, there was a guy in Flag that made a mold for a fiberglass seat that fit perfectly on the groover box (rocket box) and as well fit in a rocket box vertically for storage and transport. Used this system for years, till I finally bit the bullet and got a johnny partner, for 1/2 of what they are selling for now. Sorry, but 1000$+ for a box to sh*t in, well.. Am not rich, but I do like the partner system, a LOT. My friend has 3 tanks and me 2, so GC trips are covered. I hate the eco system for so many reasons, I won't go into that here, I'd MUCH prefer to use just a plain rocket box. 2 pieces of 2 inch PVC pipe slitted so they fit over the edges work amazingly will, until the box fills up some. 

Ceiba has photos of the "riser" they use on their site, it's a great idea, but needs a seat of some sort to work. All in all, for the biggest bang for the buck, that will pass inspection on ANY river, the plain rocket box is the way to go in MY opinion. When it gets super nasty and rusted, 30$ buys a new one. Have seen folks powdercoat them to make cleaning easier, as well as spray aerosol cooking spray on the insides, but I've never had a problem with off the shelf boxes..


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## Riverlife (11 mo ago)

We have used the slotted PVC on a plain rocket box too, and I think it’s better than a toilet seat in terms of comfort, stability, and easy storage. Really helps minimize any “aim issues” from less seasoned groovers too! WAG bag option is nice for small groups, but not approved fo a number of rivers.


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

Riverlife said:


> We have used the slotted PVC on a plain rocket box too, and I think it’s better than a toilet seat in terms of comfort, stability, and easy storage. Really helps minimize any “aim issues” from less seasoned groovers too! WAG bag option is nice for small groups, but not approved fo a number of rivers.


The resstop sytem bags fit perfectly in a rocket box... Or on top of a 5 gallon bucket WITHOUT the gamma lid, you might could stretch it to fit, but it would be testing the limits of the plastic.


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## Chapmatterson31 (May 4, 2021)

If looking for durable bucket ideas, one could get a yeti bucket and throw a seat on that! Less expensive than a normal groover set up, plus I'll buy you a beer! (All kidding aside from my understanding the one area that the yeti does actually do better than a $5 HD bucket is it wont split when water/liquid freezes in it)


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

Chapmatterson31 said:


> If looking for durable bucket ideas, one could get a yeti bucket and throw a seat on that! Less expensive than a normal groover set up, plus I'll buy you a beer! (All kidding aside from my understanding the one area that the yeti does actually do better than a $5 HD bucket is it wont split when water/liquid freezes in it)


For a hundred bucks, I would certainly hope not!..


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## Andy H. (Oct 13, 2003)

If you live in the land of scat machines, plain old rocket boxes and buckets are awesome. If live in the land where the only option is RV dump stations then they suck because you have to get 3 or 4 gallons of raw shit out of the box, into a hole, and then wash the whole thing out. As one who lives in the land of RV dumps, I'm jazzed to have the EcoSafe system where I plug in a dump hose and garden hose, open the valve, and 5 minutes later it's all done and I hit the road again.


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## hooligan shmulligan (Jan 31, 2020)

Grand canyon rental places use a 20 or 30 rocket box with seat and riser. I like this setup best. Will work on a scat machine. For an RV clean out find a extra lid and weld in bungs for a water hose and 3-4 inch hose. This is the route I'm going to if I find a deal on some rocket boxes.


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## Chapmatterson31 (May 4, 2021)

MNichols said:


> For a hundred bucks, I would certainly hope not!..


Are they $100 now!? Last I saw they were going for about $50.


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

Perhaps not quite, last I saw they were 80, but for a gd plastic bucket? Uhhhhh...


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## Chapmatterson31 (May 4, 2021)

MNichols said:


> Perhaps not quite, last I saw they were 80, but for a gd plastic bucket? Uhhhhh...


If it's as durable and bullet proof as all the reviews say, best I can do is $30. And that's with the lid.


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## ptwood (May 4, 2004)

I use 30mm ammo cans, love the stability, CFS welded up the super riser, a quick trip to the local wastewater treatment plant and they are clean. With the 30mm you can safely count on about 75 uses.


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## k2andcannoli (Feb 28, 2012)

You can always poop in a pvc pipe, cut to the right length and it's like having a third leg. Just drop it off at any ol construction site on the way home 😉


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## AgainstBetterJudgement (12 mo ago)

2nd the 5 gallon bucket but with a gama lid.


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## VanHalli (May 5, 2020)

AgainstBetterJudgement said:


> 2nd the 5 gallon bucket but with a gama lid.


Do these pass BLM reqs? I'd way rather rock a 5 gal over a rocket box but always heard rangers didn't consider the gamma seal a true sealed container?


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

VanHalli said:


> Do these pass BLM reqs? I'd way rather rock a 5 gal over a rocket box but always heard rangers didn't consider the gamma seal a true sealed container?


Correct.. is up to interpretation, they aren't leak proof when crushed, but they use them all the time on the MFS..


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## Chewbacca (Nov 1, 2005)

VanHalli said:


> Do these pass BLM reqs? I'd way rather rock a 5 gal over a rocket box but always heard rangers didn't consider the gamma seal a true sealed container?


That's what I've always been told about the 5-Gal bucket- many rangers don't like them. So even if they let you go on that, they may look through other things harder. And it makes sense, if a boat were to flip or wrap, a 5-Gal bucket will be one of the first items to be crushed, potentially leaking poo all over.


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## B4otter (Apr 20, 2009)

Lomotil.

Camp where you can use another trip's setup. Nothing better than stealth groovin'!


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## malmsmith (Mar 19, 2018)

I like the 20mm rocket box with larger plastic pipe slit along the length for a seat. I do believe in the riser for longer trips like the grand in which case you might as well bring the toilet seat too.
Since the scat machines are always broken my friend made an additional rocket box top so that it could be used at a dump station or your own sewer clean out. He cut holes for an rv fitting that accepts and locks in the out take hose and a plumbing fixture that connects the male end of a garden hose. Brilliant and easy to use, and tried and true. You can leave it in the shuttle car until you get off the river.


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## adamread (Aug 31, 2011)

I also fail to see the point of the plastic liners for ammo cans. I'm not a big guy, but man, there just isn't enough room to do your business with those things! 

I'm kind of old school and like the basic 20mil vaults, risers and seats. Got the riser and seat from PRO, but they'd be pretty easy to make. Full 20mils are really heavy already, so using bigger ones isn't appealing. Plus those 30mil or wider cans are really nice to have, hard to find, and super expensive.

In terms of painting the inside, I've tried Pam spray and other stuff, but have had the best luck so far with the spray-on Flex-Seal stuff (or Gorilla equivalent). I used black, since white would be nasty in no time. Its pretty thick, flexy, and seems to have different wetting properties than paint. The boxes clean up easier than with anything else I've tried, and the coating seems to stay intact just fine.

A friend of mine years ago added a hose fitting and an RV cleanout fitting to a 20mil lid for me. It works great,. especially after getting a RV dump hose (at Walmart maybe) that screws right into my cleanouts at home (see pic). It doesn't leak and works great if you're a little patient. In this photo, I don't have a vacuum breaker on the water hose, but that has since been corrected and really isn't a good idea.


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

adamread said:


> Plus those 30mil or wider cans are really nice to have, hard to find, and super expensive.


Tuffriverstuff.com had a pallet of them not long ago, IIRC they wanted $40.00 each, but i could be wrong, i bought so much stuff from them for a grand trip. I remember the price didn't make me flinch though, they don't weigh that much more than the standard ones. 

The RV fitting in the lid has been a standard "fix" for the dumping problem, and ditto on the busted ass SCAT machines. Never have gotten a chance to use one that actually worked, but seen a LOT of them.


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## malmsmith (Mar 19, 2018)

adamread said:


> I also fail to see the point of the plastic liners for ammo cans. I'm not a big guy, but man, there just isn't enough room to do your business with those things!
> 
> I'm kind of old school and like the basic 20mil vaults, risers and seats. Got the riser and seat from PRO, but they'd be pretty easy to make. Full 20mils are really heavy already, so using bigger ones isn't appealing. Plus those 30mil or wider cans are really nice to have, hard to find, and super expensive.
> 
> ...


thanks! a picture's worth a lot more than words!


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## caverdan (Aug 27, 2004)

Funny story about using plastic buckets for groovers. At the end of a high school Desolation Canyon trip, I asked one of the kids to carry one of the full groover buckets to the top of the ramp. He was none too pleased. After some persuading.......he stomped off carrying the bucket. When he got to the top he dropped the bucket on the ground. I could hear a teacher screaming and cussing. The bottom of the bucket cracked and it's contents were starting to ooze onto the ramp. The teacher basically tried to wrestle it into the outhouse and dump the contents. It turned into a hell of a stinky mess to clean up. Never again will I store shit in a bucket. 💩💩💩


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## Will Amette (Jan 28, 2017)

Rogue allows a bucket for now. I used one on a one-boat trip. Usually just a rocket box. A friend told me they got to Smullin and somehow didn‘t have their shitter and the rangers loaned them a bucket. 



https://www.blm.gov/sites/blm.gov/files/Scoop%20on%20Poop%202019.pdf



GC regs don’t seem to ban bucket systems, but I think they aren’t ranger-approved.

I certainly have broken buckets before. I sure wouldn’t want to break one that was full of shit.


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## Wadeinthewater (Mar 22, 2009)

Will Amette said:


> A friend told me they got to Smullin and somehow didn‘t have their shitter and the rangers loaned them a bucket.


A few years back the BLM banned buckets with snap lids on the Rogue, but they were giving people gamma seal lids which are still OK with them. The MFS allows buckets with any kind of lid. The Grande Ronde is just grateful that you are not pooping in the bushes around camp like many other folks on that river..


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## Wadeinthewater (Mar 22, 2009)

VanHalli said:


> I'd way rather rock a 5 gal over a rocket box but always heard rangers didn't consider the gamma seal a true sealed container?





Chewbacca said:


> And it makes sense, if a boat were to flip or wrap, a 5-Gal bucket will be one of the first items to be crushed, potentially leaking poo all over.


I've been on a couple of MFS trips where the River Bank toilets filled with water and leaked in someone's boat.


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## BenSlaughter (Jun 16, 2017)

Yeah, my first groover was a 5 gallon bucket system. Bottom split(in a non-critical situation) knew I'd never trust one to carry shit.


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## Nanko (Oct 20, 2020)

Will Amette said:


> Rogue allows a bucket for now. I used one on a one-boat trip. Usually just a rocket box. A friend told me they got to Smullin and somehow didn‘t have their shitter and the rangers loaned them a bucket.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


those smullin rangers should get hazard pay with how much shit they have to smell on a daily basis.


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## Will Amette (Jan 28, 2017)

Nanko said:


> those smullin rangers should get hazard pay with how much shit they have to smell on a daily basis.


They are always efficient, professional, and friendly.

Do NOT bring your shitter into the ranger office for inspection. They would much prefer to step outside. I have observed people who apparently hadn’t thought about that.


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## ekkemu (Jun 14, 2016)

I haven't read all the replies, so apologize if I am repeating info. I recently used this:









Clean Mountain Can


Camping and outdoor showers, horse washers, pet washers and portable propane water heaters, Shower enclosures, privacy tents, portable toilets and complete camp bathrooms.



www.hotcampshowers.com





On a self support Grand Canyon packraft trip 12 days. I was a bit skeptical, but I am now sold. It worked really well. We were 8 people all using the same system, nobody had issues. Depending on poop size, you can fit 12-16 poops in one. We used 1 bag for each poop and magic poo powder. All the bags went inside a LokSak which is smell proof and fits perfectly. Didn't have issues with smell and the Clean Mtn Can is made for Human Waste so should pass any regs. Oh, I ended up sitting on the can with the plastic bag around the edges, it worked well so no need to poop on the ground as I initially envisioned it. Yours truly:






I know you said DIY but it sounded like the price was the issue.

Take care
Adrian


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

Wow, I'm impressed. Seen a lot of things come across the buzz in the years I've been here, but never before a "Poop Update in Dolby Vision" 

Thinking it'd be best to chrome cast this to the 60 inch flat screen with 7,1 surround sound for the full effect..

Lucas studios would be proud.. First time for everything, and now I can say, I've seen it all, well at least as of this morning.


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## VanHalli (May 5, 2020)

adamread said:


> A friend of mine years ago added a hose fitting and an RV cleanout fitting to a 20mil lid for me. It works great,. especially after getting a RV dump hose (at Walmart maybe) that screws right into my cleanouts at home (see pic). It doesn't leak and works great if you're a little patient. In this photo, I don't have a vacuum breaker on the water hose, but that has since been corrected and really isn't a good idea.


Man this is a sweet set up. Do you know how he attached each valve? Are those welded in? Not a lot of scat stations where I'm at so cleaning out the rocket box is never a good time.


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

It's a flange with 4 screws for the 4 inch tv adapter, the house adapter had a nut and washer that goes on the end of the fitting thru the 1 inch iirc hole for it.


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## VanHalli (May 5, 2020)

MNichols said:


> It's a flange with 4 screws for the 4 inch tv adapter, the house adapter had a nut and washer that goes on the end of the fitting thru the 1 inch iirc hole for it.


Well hot damn, I know what I'm doing this weekend now... Thanks for the advice.


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

Glad to help your local hardware store should have all you need


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## adamread (Aug 31, 2011)

MNichols said:


> It's a flange with 4 screws for the 4 inch tv adapter, the house adapter had a nut and washer that goes on the end of the fitting thru the 1 inch iirc hole for it.


Just so: silicone on the RV flange, rubber hose washer on the water fitting. Has been solid for 20 years. Use a lid that has a good gasket and seals tightly. Also, seal the ends of the corrugations on the inside of the lid with silicone.


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## adamread (Aug 31, 2011)

My general routine when I need to empty a groover vault is to fill it with water and let it sit (lid on) overnight to loosen everything up before attaching the cleanout lid. Then I connect the water hose drain it a time or two, shaking a good bit between fills. After that, I add some laundry soap and let that sit for a while. Drain that, hose down any lingering poo, and drain again. Then fill with water, add maybe a 1/4 cup of bleach, and let that sit. Drain again and dry upside down.

Not being in a hurry really helps I think. This isn't my favorite post-trip job, but it's easy, sanitary, and really not a big deal. All that being said, the cost of renting vaults for the GC is a bargain at any price. Those rental vaults fit my setup too, so that's another plus for the basic rocket box groover system.


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## Pine (Aug 15, 2017)

Poop in a bucket!


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

Pine said:


> Poop in a bucket!


Holy shit.. literally.. someone made a song? Damn


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## zbaird (Oct 11, 2003)

Toilet seat on a 20mm is the ticket. No eco safe shuffle.

Seat is any toilet seat with 2 pieces of angle aluminum attached (short screws or rivets) to keep it from sliding side to side. Bonus if you cut an inch or so off each side of the seat so it fits in another 20 mil easily with all the supplies. Another bonus for a riser if you wanna get sporty with topping off the boxes.




adamread said:


> View attachment 73440


Thats the dump rig right there. Set up for scat machines when they're working, or an RV/ at home dump. As PT said you can take the boxes to some municipal water treatment plants for them to dump as well (helps to get in if you're the mayor). Only thing to do different is (looking at the picture) is the dump hose is mounted as far down as possible, the garden hose fitting is as far up as possible and the sewer hose is cut about half that length or less so you don't have to rinse 10 feet of hose when you only need 3'.

The eco safe seat/hole was created by a woman who wanted to punish men.


#stoptheecosafemash
#socialdistancemynuts
#balldraggingsucks


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

zbaird said:


> #stoptheecosafemash
> #socialdistancemynuts
> #balldraggingsucks


Perfect. I hate, well it's beyond hate that system. Nothing good about it at all, nothing. It's not even cheap,,

He's not the mayor anymore, now he's running for county commissioner. God help Chaffee County..


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## adamread (Aug 31, 2011)

zbaird said:


> .. Only thing to do different is (looking at the picture) is the dump hose is mounted as far down as possible, the garden hose fitting is as far up as possible and the sewer hose is cut about half that length or less so you don't have to rinse 10 feet of hose when you only need 3'...


If I were to make another cleanout lid, I'd follow zbaird's advice on putting the cleanout fitting as close as possible to one end. Mine requires turning the whole box upside down to get that last little bit drained. I haven't really had issues with the hose inlet, but I've thought about putting some kind of simple sprinkler head on the inside of the lid. Seems like it might clean out a little faster that way. I do like the longer cleanout hose though, because you're not on a short tether that way. Plus, you could shorten it if you spring a leak you can't easily fix.


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## AgainstBetterJudgement (12 mo ago)

Pine said:


> Poop in a bucket!


Jimmy was one of the good ones! God bless his soul.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

AgainstBetterJudgement said:


> Jimmy was one of the good ones! God bless his soul.


Wish I had known him. Rest in peace, Jimmy.


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## jsheglund (Feb 20, 2021)

Maybe make your own similar to the Coyote system. Some similar boxes here Tamco® Square & Rectangular Utility Tanks | U.S. Plastic Corp.
or
6 Gallon Natural Polyethylene Tamco® Tank with 5" Lid & 3/4" FNPT Polypropylene Bulkhead - 12" L x 12" W x 12" Hgt. | U.S. Plastic Corp.

I was going to try but then walked into 4corners and the real deal was right in front of me so i bought the Coyote.


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

I love US plastics.. if it's made out of plastic, they likely have it, in 6 or 7 different levels of quality and price...


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

jsheglund said:


> Maybe make your own similar to the Coyote system. Some similar boxes here Tamco® Square & Rectangular Utility Tanks | U.S. Plastic Corp.
> or
> 6 Gallon Natural Polyethylene Tamco® Tank with 5" Lid & 3/4" FNPT Polypropylene Bulkhead - 12" L x 12" W x 12" Hgt. | U.S. Plastic Corp.
> 
> I was going to try but then walked into 4corners and the real deal was right in front of me so i bought the Coyote.


That’s a brilliant idea. The coyote is a good toilet, just a little too small. Would be a great idea to build something just like the coyote, but have a larger opening in the seat. Maybe even make it compatible with Partner seats.


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## bfish (11 mo ago)

MNichols said:


> I love US plastics.. if it's made out of plastic, they likely have it, in 6 or 7 different levels of quality and price...


Oh yeah and they have 7.7 and 10,7 gal buckets with lifelatch lids.


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## co_bjread (Oct 26, 2004)

I think the Life Latch lids look awesome. I've been using a gamma bucket for 6-7 years now, and when I started looking at other groover options, I concluded that I like buckets the best. 

If you use buckets, glue 2 buckets nested together, so you have a double wall setup. This way if it gets hit or dropped, the inner bucket remains intact.

I also looked into making a groover from a Yeti bucket, but I don't trust the Yeti lids, no way to seal them down, and gammas don't fit Yetis. I even wrote Yeti and asked them to make a leak proof lid... still waiting.

So, I think my next one will be a double walled ultimate pail, and I really like the flip out handle for cranking it closed. Stay tuned to see how well it works, it's my spring project.

Oh, and for dumping them out, it was certainly awkward at 1st, but I bought a good size road cone, trimmed the cone to fit the dump station better, and made a great funnel. It washes up easy too, so really not a big deal.


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## co_bjread (Oct 26, 2004)




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## Electric-Mayhem (Jan 19, 2004)

Love that video.... if not for any other reason then it was clear the writer got dragged down the canyon against his will. found that a few years ago and bring it on my tablet and show it to people on the trip. Pretty awesome.

I've had few friends who gave presentations to their kids school about a Grand trip and they said it always grinds to a halt when you start talking about the Groover. The kids always get to ask question at the end and I guess ALL of the question were Groover related.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

co_bjread said:


> Oh, and for dumping them out, it was certainly awkward at 1st, but I bought a good size road cone, trimmed the cone to fit the dump station better, and made a great funnel. It washes up easy too, so really not a big deal.


That's a brilliant tech tip...especially for rivers where the SCAT machine operation is unknown (or known: not working!)


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## B4otter (Apr 20, 2009)

Think I'd want full HAZMAT suit if I ever had to resort to the road cone scenario...


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## adamread (Aug 31, 2011)

B4otter said:


> Think I'd want full HAZMAT suit if I ever had to resort to the road cone scenario...


Yeah, sounds truly grim!


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

adamread said:


> Yeah, sounds truly grim!





adamread said:


> Yeah, sounds truly grim!


So, you're both saying it could be a "shitty" situation ? 

Sorry, couldn't pass that one up


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## weekendalpinist (Jul 16, 2012)

Groover seat option that works pretty well if you aren't trying to fill the can to the top. Not a perfect seal but good enough. Heavy






enough it won't blow off in the wind. This one could use a bit more shaping, but I didn't have an angle grinder when I made it. Easy to stow. And if your labor is cheap, it's cheap.


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## co_bjread (Oct 26, 2004)

That's a good looking seat. For my bucket system, I bought a standard seat at the big box hardware store, and I got a couple rubber stoppers. Drilled holes in the stoppers, so I could bolt/ screw them to the underside of the seat. The stoppers and the nubs that come on the seat fit it pretty securely to the rim of the bucket, so they stay in place.

Regarding the grim proposition of dumping it all down a road cone funnel. I think iver been dumping somewhere in the ballpark of 140 user-days for the last 6 or 7 years. So, I do get that it sounds awful, and conceptually, it probably is, bu the reality, at least for me, really hasn't been that bad.

I also came to the realization that I use it enough that I could certainly justify a manufactured one, and gave them all a serious consideration last summer. I was just able to whittle something away at every one of the manufactured grooves, that left me liking the old bucket system best.

So, I'm going to build a new bucket groover, using those US plastics pails, and the lid that has the handle built in. I am optimistic that it will function significantly better than the gamma seal lid, but that is yet to be determined. 






White Non-Spout Lid for 5 Gallon Ultimate Pail for Liquids | U.S. Plastic Corp.


The first ever screw top with built in turning handle for ease of opening and closing. Life Latch® lid creates a vacuum-tight seal to pro...




www.usplastic.com


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

co_bjread said:


> So, I'm going to build a new bucket groover, using those US plastics pails, and the lid that has the handle built in. I am optimistic that it will function significantly better than the gamma seal lid, but that is yet to be determined.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Dude that doesn't look NEARLY as expensive as the Yeti bucket and lid at $70.00 plus shipping !!









The Fully-Loaded Bucket


YETI




www.yeti.com


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## PDXposter (12 mo ago)

caverdan said:


> Funny story about using plastic buckets for groovers…the bottom of the bucket cracked and it's contents were starting to ooze onto the ramp. The teacher basically tried to wrestle it into the outhouse and dump the contents. It turned into a hell of a stinky mess to clean up. Never again will I store shit in a bucket. 💩💩💩


 Been there, cracked that! Main Salmon takeout I set the poop bucket down on the sand, and heard the “crack” from a hidden sharp rock cracking the bottom. With brown goo dripping, the only solution seemed to be inverting it. Thank the gods the lid and seal held! I called for a bucket, and someone dashed over. We transported the cracked bucket in a half-full outer bucket mess on the trailer to the scat machine.

NEVER AGAIN WILL I USE A POOP BUCKET!


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## fajawiebe (Sep 9, 2016)

I learned a new trick for making the groover easier to clean out at the end of a river trip: no TP in the groover. For some it seemed a bit gross to put the TP into a garbage bag but we all got used to it and it was not a deal. Also, no TP in the groover means you need less groover space. We were 23 people on a 7-day Deso trip and only needed one tank for the poop. Afterwards it was a very easy clean up as there was no paper to clog things up.


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## RDW1 (Jun 4, 2016)

Does anyone know the cone dimensions on the new ecosafe square seat? I've been wanting to upgrade from the bucket for awhile. I've used Selways before and they are awesome. $500 is just more than I want to spend. So I'm thinking of buying the tank in the image below and a new ecosafe square seat. The tank has a 5" lid. I'll have to install a bulkhead type RV fitting but that should be straight forward. I'd basically end up with a coyote style groover and maybe a better seat? At $120 for the tank and $30 for the seat I figure I can put together a decent shitter for a fairly reasonable price.
Thoughts?


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

My only thought, is those square corners would make it a pain to clean, especially if feces got packed in them, you would be hard pressed to clean the upper inside corners. Why the Jonny Partner has the sloped angles on top I believe.. But past that.. The little 5 inch hole to aim at would be about the same PITA mess that you'd have with the Ecomess box. It might be cheaper, but I think I'd want some sort of pressure relief valve, especially as the tank is black. Are they available in white ?


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

I think the Coyote has a 6" hole. Bigger than the Ecosafe.

Coyote corners are a pain (but not impossible) to clean. They don't clean initially...needs a bit of soak...fill partway and let it soak upside-down.


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## RDW1 (Jun 4, 2016)

MNichols said:


> My only thought, is those square corners would make it a pain to clean, especially if feces got packed in them, you would be hard pressed to clean the upper inside corners. Why the Jonny Partner has the sloped angles on top I believe.. But past that.. The little 5 inch hole to aim at would be about the same PITA mess that you'd have with the Ecomess box. It might be cheaper, but I think I'd want some sort of pressure relief valve, especially as the tank is black. Are they available in white ?


They do have white. I just found an old eco tank in our warehouse. The inside diameter of the hole is 6". My only worry with the coyote is the lack of cut out for man junk. I see the new ecosafe square design at least has a junk cut out.


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

RDW1 said:


> They do have white. I just found an old eco tank in our warehouse. The inside diameter of the hole is 6". My only worry with the coyote is the lack of cut out for man junk. I see the new ecosafe square design at least has a junk cut out.





RDW1 said:


> They do have white. I just found an old eco tank in our warehouse. The inside diameter of the hole is 6". My only worry with the coyote is the lack of cut out for man junk. I see the new ecosafe square design at least has a junk cut out.


All you say is true, for 35 years I used a plain rocket box, and made a flush lid for it, have a fiberglass seat that someone in Flag used to make specifically for rocket boxes. A regular wooden seat cut down with a couple HDPE blocks screwed to the bottom works well, it's what Ceiba / Moe / Pro give you. Was happy wtih that for years, till I used a buddy's Jonny Partner setup, now I own one. 

Don't think anything could make me want to deal with an ecomess system at all, not that the tank is a bad idea, but their seats suck in so many different ways. It doesn't look like it's changed much over the years, still has that shelf that womenfolk dribble on, that my nutsack rests on when I'm sitting. They are cold in the morning, the seats, not my .... To me anyway, it's about as unsanitary as one can get. 










I captured this image from the NRS page just now.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

Seems that the Ecosafe riser could be improved--slightly taller (so your junk doesn't hit the riser) and revise the shelf so it's not level.
That guy who has the urine-diverting groover idea should partner with Ecosafe to make a better Ecosafe riser with a urine diversion. Could be a real winner.










The riser could be as little as 2" higher to prevent _most_ peoples' nuts from resting on the shelf. Maybe an added 5-6" for the really old boatmen whose nuts stretch down to their knees.


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

MT4Runner said:


> Seems that the Ecosafe riser could be improved--slightly taller (so your junk doesn't hit the riser) and revise the shelf so it's not level.
> That guy who has the urine-diverting groover idea should partner with Ecosafe to make a better Ecosafe riser with a urine diversion. Could be a real winner.
> View attachment 80327
> 
> ...


I believe the echo mess design is the height it is, so that you can take up an entire 25 lb rocket box with a 1 lb seat.. cuz, I guess, you don't want the seat getting wet?


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

I wouldn't know. I've either put the seat in a drybag or just strapped to the outside of the load. Not worth the weight of hauling an entire second virtually empty rocket box.
And a good alternate riser should sit on the box walls and not the plastic tank.


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

MT4Runner said:


> I wouldn't know. I've either put the seat in a drybag or just strapped to the outside of the load. Not worth the weight of hauling an entire second virtually empty rocket box.
> And a good alternate riser should sit on the box walls and not the plastic tank.


I think they intended it to go into a rocket box, for one reason it's an awfully fragile setup... I would hesitate to guess that they were more looking to mechanically protect it then keep it dry, but one never knows. Almost everyone I know that has that disaster of a toilet system keeps their seat in a rocket box, and they filled the center with TP and supplies as they drop it down into the box..


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

@Ronald R Rupert sighted on the 'Buzz! There goes the neighborhood!


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## RDW1 (Jun 4, 2016)

After measuring and contemplating most of the day, I think I have a plan. I think I'm going with the tamco tank and will cut the top and add a 10" vented ring and cap. I measured the Selway tank opening and it's 10". I also measured a standard round toilet seat and they are around 8.5" opening. I'm going to get the white tank.


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

RDW1 said:


> After measuring and contemplating most of the day, I think I have a plan. I think I'm going with the tamco tank and will cut the top and add a 10" vented ring and cap. I measured the Selway tank opening and it's 10". I also measured a standard round toilet seat and they are around 8.5" opening. I'm going to get the white tank.


Question.

Are you able to close the vent in that lid? Most federal agencies require a leak proof washable reusable toilet system. If you can't close the vent, then it wouldn't be leak proof..


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## seydou (6 mo ago)

RDW1 said:


> After measuring and contemplating most of the day, I think I have a plan. I think I'm going with the tamco tank and will cut the top and add a 10" vented ring and cap. I measured the Selway tank opening and it's 10". I also measured a standard round toilet seat and they are around 8.5" opening. I'm going to get the white tank.


Let us know how it turns out.


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## RDW1 (Jun 4, 2016)

MNichols said:


> Question.
> 
> Are you able to close the vent in that lid? Most federal agencies require a leak proof washable reusable toilet system. If you can't close the vent, then it wouldn't be leak proof..


All of the tank lids I can find are either unvented or a fixed open vent. The one I'm looking at can be easily modified to open or close. To answer your question, it cannot be closed as purchased. Needs modifications.


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## RDW1 (Jun 4, 2016)

The groover is complete. Got the tank lid cut and mounted. The luggable loo seat works great but needs something to hold it down. It fits fairly tight as the lid ring is the same diameter as a 5 gallon bucket. But I don't want to have to hunt it down after a wind storm. I added some hooks to the side of the tank to fashion some bungees to keep it from blowing away. 
I do need to get some 1/8" rubber sheet and cut a lid gasket. I was able to run a bolt and wing nut through the vent to close it. Just loosen the wing nut a bit and it opens the vent. You'll also see that the tank ring had an inner facing chamfer. Looked like it would just catch poop so I cut it off. Pretty sure you could use a SCAT machine, but I doubt it would get it clean when upside down. Next project is to get some 3/8" steel tube and make a cleaning wand like for RV tanks. That way I can stick it through the hose fitting inside the tank and spray all directions. I'm happy with the results.


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## Pine (Aug 15, 2017)

Poop in a bucket!!!


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