# Gore Canyon



## Randaddy (Jun 8, 2007)

Can you do 20 push ups? Can you do a pull up? Can you run a mile? Have you ever swam in a fast river and got yourself to shore?

If you answered yes to all of these, call Arkansas Valley Adventures and ask for Kenny Kiley to take you down. If you answered no, you're probably not ready for that experience.


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## boatingbuss (May 22, 2008)

producerchik said:


> I've been rafting all summer long, and everyone's telling me I HAVE to raft Gore Canyon. I hear it's the most complicated run in the state, maybe country. First of all, when will Gore be open to commercial rafting. And my second question, should I be scared? I had one person tell me I need to make sure I have life insurance. Then I had one raft guide say he refuses to do Gore Canyon. I've seen lots of video of Gore Canyon. With a great guide, I totallly think it will be awesome.


i thought it sounded like fun as well, but skipped it because i would never want to swim there. but that's just like my opinion.:mrgreen:


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## producerchik (Jun 2, 2008)

Randaddy said:


> Can you do 20 push ups? Can you do a pull up? Can you run a mile? Have you ever swam in a fast river and got yourself to shore?
> 
> If you answered yes to all of these, call Arkansas Valley Adventures and ask for Kenny Kiley to take you down. If you answered no, you're probably not ready for that experience.


I know I can do it. I'm not worried about that one bit. I'm in shape and a very good swimmer. Not to mention, I have had to swim some this summer. What does it compared to other Class V whitewater in the state? By the way, I tried to do a trip with you guys on the Poudre. I called several times, and no one returned my phone calls. I even called other outfitters, and had the same issue. I guess the Poudre isn't getting any love this summer. Too bad.


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## producerchik (Jun 2, 2008)

boatingbuss said:


> i thought it sounded like fun as well, but skipped it because i would never want to swim there. but that's just like my opinion.:mrgreen:


Yeah, I'm not a big fan of swimming in class V whitewater either. But if you make it through it just fine, I feel like the experience will be well worth it probably.


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## xena13 (Mar 21, 2007)

I've done Royal Gorge, Pine Creek and the Numbers, the Upper Animas and Gore Canyon on commercial trips. Gore is much more challenging than the rest. I also recommend AVA for this trip and Kenny is a great guide. All the guides for AVA that do Gore are great.


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## cayce weber (Jun 27, 2007)

I thought this was a boaters forum but I guess its ok for it to be a guide to commercial companies. Never mind Ive had a few drinks.


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## sj (Aug 13, 2004)

She's asking about a specific river. And she is asking about commercial. I don't see anything wrong with it. I am however amused at the initial description. 

You could get hurt but if you are in above average shape tend to embrace mishap instead of dread it. You should do fine. sj


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## Andy H. (Oct 13, 2003)

It seems like just a couple of weeks ago that there were folks complaining about commercial rafting clients getting in over their heads by booking trips without a clue what they were getting into. Even though a lot of us don't take the commercial rafting experience very seriously, I'd call Gore a serious run and have to say producerchik's doing better than the other 99.9999% of commercial rafters by asking the folks who run it regularly for the beta. She's stepping it up - good for her. 

I'll add, here's a member of the media learning about boating and we've got a chance to show her what private boaters do and the culture of safety we have that makes us different from most of the whitewater casualties her industry reports on (i.e. tubers & yahoos on pool toys w/o PFDs). Hopefully while she's on the river she'll learn about some of the real issues like Colorado's hydrography and its often-dysfunctional water allocation system, our uniquely bad riparian trespass laws, pressing environmental issues, etc.

SYOTR,

-AH


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## jmack (Jun 3, 2004)

Can you write your name in the snow? Can you get a stripper's attention without a dollar bill? Can you look a really ugly child in the eye without laughing?

More importantly, are you okay with the possibility of taking an extra-shitty whitewater swim? If you are, fire it up (with a guide who know what he or she is doing).


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## whitehouse3001 (Jul 6, 2007)

I've only seen videos of gore canyon, and I didn't realize that it had such a reputation for bad swims/life insurance/etc. What is it that makes for such a nasty swim there?


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## whip (Oct 23, 2003)

*Gradient...*

and all the big rocks the railroad dropped in when they punched the line thru there.


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## thecraw (Oct 12, 2003)

Josh, you are hilarious...


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## Ture (Apr 12, 2004)

whitehouse3001 said:


> I've only seen videos of gore canyon, and I didn't realize that it had such a reputation for bad swims/life insurance/etc. What is it that makes for such a nasty swim there?


Any swim in any class V rapid is very dangerous. I don't run much class V because it is at the very limit of my abilities and I know from experience that the price for a mistake can be HARSH. Besides the near drowning experience, I find that the shins and knees on the rocks is just about unbearable.


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## Andy H. (Oct 13, 2003)

*Rapids Rating System*

You should read up on a bit of the history before you go - Capt. John Adams' first descent and Fletcher Anderson's first "successful" descent would be a good start.

Here's an oldie but a goodie: the swimmer's rapid rating system, I think the Class V description below probably reflects what to expect on Gore:

***************************************************
Someone once asked an anonymous boater about his class IV comfort level and his answer was something like "I'm comfortable that I can usually find an eddy to swim to." Thus, the interviewer was inspired to offer this revised International Scale of River Difficulty:

Class I: Easy
Fast moving water with riffles and small waves. Swimming is pleasant in the warm water and any rocks are smooth and rounded, shore easily reached. A nice break from paddling. Almost all gear and equipment is recovered. Boat is just slightly scratched.

Class II: Novice
Straightforward rapids with wide, clear channels which are evident without scouting. Swimming to eddies requires moderate effort. Climbing out of river may involve slippery rocks and shrub induced lacerations. Paddles travel great distance downstream requiring lengthy walk. Something unimportant is missing. Boat hits large rock leaving visible dent on frame or new gash in plastic.

Class III: Intermediate
Rapids with moderate, irregular waves which may be difficult to avoid. Water is swallowed. Legs are ground repeatedly against sharp, pointy rocks. Several eddies are missed while swimming. Difficult decision to stay with boat results in moment of terror when swimmer realizes they are downstream of boat. Paddle is recirculated in small hole way upstream. All personal possessions are removed from boat and floated in different directions. Paddling partners run along river bank shouting helpful instructions. Boat is munched against large boulder hard enough to leave series of deep gouges. Those high-end sunglasses you bragged about getting from your friend's buddy who's a rep? They looked really cool in at the put-in this morning - next time you'll be wearing el cheapo shades from the gas station.

Class IV: Advanced
Water is generally lots colder and rockier than Class III. Intense, powerful but predictable rapids requiring precise swimming in turbulent water. Swimming may require 'must' moves above dangerous hazards. 'Must' moves are downgraded to 'strongly recommended' after they are missed. Sensation of disbelief experienced while about to swim large drops. Frantic swimming towards shore is alternated with frantic swimming away from shore to avoid strainers. Rocks are clung to with death grip. Paddle is completely forgotten. One bootie is sucked off your foot. Hydraulic pressure permanently removes waterproof box with all the really important stuff. Paddle partners running along bank look genuinely concerned while lofting throw ropes 20 feet behind you. Paddle partners stare slack-jawed and point in amazement at boat which finally gets pinned by major feature. Climbing up river bank involves inverted tree. One of those spring loaded pins that attaches watch to wristband is missing. Contact lenses are moved to rear of eyeballs. You won't really miss that lost bootie on the hike out because your foot will be numb from the cold until you get back to the car.

Class V: Expert
The water in this rapid is usually under 40 degrees F (if it doesn't classify as a supercooled fluid) and rocks are sharp and plentiful. Most gear is destroyed on rocks within minutes if not seconds. If the boat survives, it needs about three days of repair. You'll later reflect that term "swimming" is just a quaint misnomer here as it takes everything you've got just to make frantic movements to keep from becoming one with the rocks and to get a breath from time to time. Terror and panic sets in as you realize your paddle partners don't have a chance in hell of reaching you. You come to a true understanding of the terms like "chundered," "maytagging," and "pinballing." That hole that looked like nothing when you scouted has a hydraulic that holds you under the water until your lungs are close to bursting. You come out only to realize you still have 75% of the rapid left to swim. Swim to the eddy? What #%^&*#* eddy!? This rapid usually lasts a mile or more - before the next one. Hydraulic pressure removes everything that can come off your body within the first few seconds. This includes gloves, shoes, neoprene socks, sunlasses, hats, and clothing. The rocks take care of your fingers, toes, and ears. That $700.00 dry suit, well it might hold up to the sharp rocks. Your paddle is trash. If there is a strainer, just hope it is old and rotten so it breaks. Partners on shore are frantically trying to run and keep up with you. Their faces alternate with horror as they stare at how you are being tossed around and relief that you finally flushed out of that hole! They are trying remember how to do CPR (is it four compressions then a breath or the other way around?!?). They also really hope the cooler of beer is still intact because they are going to need a cold one by the time they get your carcass and boat out! Climbing out of this happens after the rapid is over. You may need the help of a backboard, cervical collar and Z-rig. Even though you have broken bones, lacerations, puncture wounds, missing digits & ears, and a concussion, you won't feel much because of the severe hypothermia. Your recovery time give you a chance to get caught up on those old TV shows you never had time to watch and write letters to old friends.

Class VI: World Class
Not recommended for swimming.


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## Randaddy (Jun 8, 2007)

producerchik said:


> I know I can do it. I'm not worried about that one bit. I'm in shape and a very good swimmer. Not to mention, I have had to swim some this summer. What does it compared to other Class V whitewater in the state? By the way, I tried to do a trip with you guys on the Poudre. I called several times, and no one returned my phone calls. I even called other outfitters, and had the same issue. I guess the Poudre isn't getting any love this summer. Too bad.


What time did you call? If you call any of the companies during business hours you shouldn't have any trouble booking a trip. I don't know what's so hard about it... I'd say try again, but the water is dropping fast and you won't get the experience you're looking for.

As for Gore, you're going to love it! It's the scariest, craziest, funnest commercial raft trip around. But I'm serious about being in shape. Every tourist that waddles into the shop tells me that they know they can do it. Self confidence and self awareness are two very different things. I'm not saying that you can't, or don't have what it takes. You've been rafting, you're young, and you're asking the right questions. I'm just trying to answer them as honestly as I can. 

If I recall your previous post you mentioned swimming Seidel's before. That's not a swim, that's a dip in the pool compared to a 1/4 mile of Gore beat down! Of course you will probably portage Gore Rapid, and if you're followed my advice about who to go with you might just stay in the boat the whole time!

Maybe you should call AVA and tell them you want to run Pine Creek/Numbers with them and have them evaluate you for a Gore trip. They can help you make the decision while running a genuine class 5 rapid.

Have fun.


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## WhiteLightning (Apr 21, 2004)

Call Lakota and ask for Alan B. (970)-845-RAFT


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## randomnature (Jun 10, 2007)

*link.*

MyFoxColorado


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## wayniac (Mar 31, 2007)

producerchik said:


> I've been rafting all summer long, and everyone's telling me I HAVE to raft Gore Canyon. I hear it's the most complicated run in the state, maybe country. First of all, when will Gore be open to commercial rafting. And my second question, should I be scared? I had one person tell me I need to make sure I have life insurance. Then I had one raft guide say he refuses to do Gore Canyon. I've seen lots of video of Gore Canyon. With a great guide, I totallly think it will be awesome.


"and you can't get someone to run with you on the Poudre" HMMMM- Perhaps you should add to your rafting resume Granite/Pine Creek, Crystal, Cross, and certain sections of Clear Creek before you do this- then and only then will should you even consider Gore Canyon. Maybe not even then. I like the suggestions here to PAY MONEY and run it commercially when it's being run. May just save your life. Better yet, call Clear Creek Rafting and PAY to run the class 5 sections of Clear Creek- that should give you some sort of an idea of what you are getting yourself into. At least THEY know what it's like to run Gore- they participate in the race every year. And if you can't find folks to run it, ----- pay attention here--- maybe they are keeping your best interests at heart- and remember- they aren't inviting you on the Poudre either. What's up with that? And the Poudre isn't even a good warmup for Gore. Over the years, I've personally turned down plenty of people who wanted to run it with me. And as far as the 'scared' comment--- you really need to stop the BS here and consider the swims. I've swam gore falls after coming out of a raft, and was lucky enough to have someone hit me with a bag. I guess you could say I was 'scared'- focused might be a better word. Are the people you are going with (unless you are considering running solo(?)) able to nail you with a throw bag the first time- because there will only be a first time- or none at all. SERIOUS rafters do run Gore- and some- a rare few---- have run it successfully more than once- and at least one I know personally rafted it MANY times- in an oar frame, and most of those runs were solo- but that doesn't mean that other rafters should run it at all. So here's a good question- what have you SWAM? Maybe that's a better qualifier. Choose your crew wisely if you go- you may just have to rely upon them to save your life. Oh and with regard to your sources talking about Gore being the "toughest" in the "country'- what country? If you really want your butt kicked in raft, try Tumwater canyon outside of Leavenworth, Washington- or Icicle Creek in the same area, or any class V high volume river in the state of Washington- or Idaho- or maybe the Upper Box in Taos--- if you REALLY are willing to really put it all on the line. But it shouldn't just be about putting it all on the line should it? I personally like to do my runs with style- not just survive. If this sounds harsh, its only because I speak from experience. Boat safe and Good Luck.
wayne


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## xena13 (Mar 21, 2007)

Randaddy said:


> Maybe you should call AVA and tell them you want to run Pine Creek/Numbers with them and have them evaluate you for a Gore trip. They can help you make the decision while running a genuine class 5 rapid.


This is a great idea. If you want to run the entire Pine Creek Rapid, wait until the water level gets below 1000 cfs. They portage the 1st part of the rapid and put in right by Pine Creek hole at levels higher than 1000 cfs.


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## Coon (Jun 25, 2007)

*You sure you're ready?*

In my opinion, I would really consider getting some more miles under your belt before taking on Gore.

I was a raft guide for many years, who feels confident in my paddling skills and I would feel queasy about taking on Gore...
just the thought of swimming there makes me want my mommy (Kinda kidding, kinda not) :mrgreen:

What worries me is that you don't own your own watercraft, but instead rely solely on commercial outfitters to get you down the river. 
The only reason I point that out is because that tells me that you have minimal experience depending on yourself on the river. 
Ie, getting outta trouble, reading water etc. 

The fact is, even if you're guide is stellar, you have to be prepared to swim and okay with that notion.

My intention here is not to tell you what you should do....I guess I just read your post and I felt I had to respond.
It would be devastating to hear that something happened to you because you didn't have all the info to make an informed decision.

P.S Gore isn't going anywhere, it will be there next year...I promise 

All the best
~Julie


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## BrianK (Feb 3, 2005)

commercially they portage gore, and the rest is solid class four with the exception of tunnel which lands in a pool. While swimming in scissors or kirschbaums would suck if you are in good shape you're probably gonna be ok. Paddle hard and swim to shore. It'll be big, scary, and fun. I say go for it.


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## WhiteLightning (Apr 21, 2004)

Producerchick probably has as much or more experience then the other commercial yahoo customers (no offense anyone) that hit up Gore. The outfitters do a reeeeal good job pre-screening custies for that trip. Gore rapid is typically a portage for the guests. Bottom line is like any trip, know the risks, swims are very possible, maybe even 50/50. 

Expect safety kayakers, and guides with a gazillion miles of class IV and V experience. FYI- the stats in Gore Canyon commercial fatalities are a lot better, probably due to the pre-screening, extra safety, experienced guides, customer training, etc. (Zero so far vs. average of one or two per year on Brown's Canyon)


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## producerchik (Jun 2, 2008)

I appreciate everyone's advice on this post. I will take everyone's comments into consideration, before making my decision whether or not to do the run through Gore Canyon. There are some people who have made some uneducated comments toward my post. That's because they haven't kept up with my blog, like some others have. Most of the comments were regarding my experience. Don't get me wrong, I am by no means a certified raft guide. But for the record, I have 16 days on the river this year alone and have already done most of the runs suggested to prep me for Gore Canyon. Thanks. If I end up doing Gore, you bet you're sweet a$$ it's gonna be talked about on my blog. So stayed tuned. I'll let everyone know what I decide.


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## WhiteLightning (Apr 21, 2004)

Look forward to reading about your trip! :-D


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## Tim Kennedy (May 28, 2004)

*Gore Canyon rafting info*

Call an outfitter that runs Gore commercially on a regular basis (not ones that just advertise it in their literature). They can answer any questions you might have about the trip. 

*Timberline Tours* is one of the pioneers of commercial raft trips in Gore Canyon. They have been running it commercially since the early nineties and have run more commercial trips through the canyon than any other outfitter (as few as 12 per season and as many as 50). As soon as the water level at Kremmling drops below 1250 cfs, Timberline will book commercial trips on Gore. (disclaimer: I am more than a bit biased towards Timberline as I used to guide and manage for them. I guided and safety kayaked on Gore from 1994 to 2006) 1 800 831 1414. 

* AVA* has been running Gore as well for quite a few seasons. AVA usually starts running trips regularly on Gore after the Ark drops (Aug 15th). 1 877 RAFTING. 

The Adventure Company, Lakota Guides, Nova and Up tha Creek also run trips in Gore, but not as often as Timberline and AVA.

Gore is probably the most technically difficult stretch of commercially rafted whitewater in the state and arguably one of the top three most difficult regularly run commercial sections in the country. Lately, it's rare to see a commercial raft run of Gore Rapid. The current has changed a bit since some wood got parked on the left bank at the "meat" entrance a few years ago. It really pushes into the hole (Ginger) now. All the "stars" have to be in alignment to prompt a commercial raft run through the meat. Most companies have their guests walk at river level on river right to the eddy above decision rock or just above Scissors, while the guides line/portage/drag the boats along the right bank. All trips also scout Tunnel Falls and give their guests the choice to run it or not. It's rare to run a trip in Gore Canyon where nobody swims (but it happens more often than you'd think). Although, sometimes there have been trips where everyone swims and some people swim more than once. 

Previous class IV and V rafting experience is not as important as being in good physical shape and willing to take instruction. Are you active? What other sports do you participate in? ("running, hiking, skiing and biking" are better answers than "golf, softball, bowling") Are you able to hike/climb over rocks? Can you swim? Also, having a positive mental attitude and decent sense of self preservation can serve a swimmer much better than how many rivers they have rafted. And most importantly, do you have any existing or previous medical conditions, allergies, or injuries that can be affected by rafting or affect your ability to participate in a rafting trip? Please include any medications. We also like to know your height and weight, not just as a gauge of fitness, but for wetsuit sizing. Wetsuits are mandatory (included in trip price) for all commercial guests for flotation and padding as well as warmth.

Also, ask to talk to guides who guide commercial crews through Gore Canyon for honest informed opinions. I know of quite a few guides who have only guided "training boats" (boats with other guides as paddlers) and have come out of the canyon with unfavorable opinions of rafting in there. I personally would much rather guide a commercial crew through Gore Canyon rather than a boat load of other guides and guide types. Commercial crews are much more predictable and easier to train than a boat full of raft guides and experienced river types.

See you up there,
TK


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## caspermike (Mar 9, 2007)

whitehouse3001 said:


> I've only seen videos of gore canyon, and I didn't realize that it had such a reputation for bad swims/life insurance/etc. What is it that makes for such a nasty swim there?


 
gore would bea super nasty swim, same with tunnel. i don't think i would enjoy a swim through kirsch either. have a good time and hold the fuck on....


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## sj (Aug 13, 2004)

Just for the record it does suck to swimm kischbaum


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## erdvm1 (Oct 17, 2003)

I may be wrong but this looks like some weird advertising scheme................

This thread seems absolutely bizarre


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## caspermike (Mar 9, 2007)

I will volunteer. you can ride in my walmart raft with me.


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## raftus (Jul 20, 2005)

I think that Tim Kennedy nailed it. Use his advice.


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## Badazws6 (Mar 4, 2007)

Have you thought about what you want to do after you have ran the hardest piece of commerically run whitewater in the state? Personally I'm willing to bet you will have a blast but will want MORE aftewards. Think about learning to kayak or raft yourself and you can have so much more fun for so much less money. It's kinda like the difference between riding in a race car and driving one yourself.

Have fun, be safe out there.


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## LilaS (Jul 21, 2008)

*I rafted it awhile back with Timberline Tours*

They were great and we had option of portaging Gore Rapid. I and another woman decided to portage. Glad I did as 1 guy swam it and he did not enjoy the experience to put it mildly.

I popped out at the Falls but there is a pool there so not a bad swim.

Now my husband and I have our own raft. I prefer more mellow floats in our own boat!


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## cmike1 (Sep 10, 2006)

Mostly good advise. Previous class IV experience is helpful as others have mentioned, but I'll agree that being in good shape (and it sounds as if you are), being a good swimmer, following commands with enthusiastic vigor, and most of all, understanding what it means to swim nasty Class IV+. Even if you have a good guide, a good crew, and you do everything right, there is a good chance that someone or everyone in your boat will swim. If you do swim, you may get pulled right back into the boat or have a safety boater right next to you to help. Or quite possibly you may have to self rescue. You need to understand and accept that and be ready to deal.

All the ominous stuff aside, assuming you get a good company with a good guide and the rest of your crew mates are up to the task, you'll have an unforgettable experience. Gore canyon is an incredible place that pushes the limits of what's sane for a commercial outfit to run. Have a lot of fun!


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## seanlee (Apr 17, 2004)

i'll be tubing it in a couple of weeks....want to join?

we could do it in one of those double tubes together!

i'll rally some good kayak safety for us just in case....


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## producerchik (Jun 2, 2008)

Badazws6 said:


> Have you thought about what you want to do after you have ran the hardest piece of commerically run whitewater in the state? Personally I'm willing to bet you will have a blast but will want MORE aftewards. Think about learning to kayak or raft yourself and you can have so much more fun for so much less money. It's kinda like the difference between riding in a race car and driving one yourself.
> 
> Have fun, be safe out there.


I will probably continue to rate different rivers in Colorado, as they change with differrent levels. But I am actually thinking about buying a ducky. I had the opportunity to do some class III whitewater in a ducky, and had a blast. Right then, I knew I wanted to buy one.


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## producerchik (Jun 2, 2008)

seanlee said:


> i'll be tubing it in a couple of weeks....want to join?
> 
> we could do it in one of those double tubes together!
> 
> i'll rally some good kayak safety for us just in case....


Lol. Count me out on that one.


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## yukon cornelious (Jul 21, 2008)

*pics & video*

some gore pics and vid

Brian Binge - Gore Canyon


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## ritatheraft (May 22, 2007)

*Swiftwater Rescue*

If you love boating as much as it seems you do, you should take a shiftwater/ whitewater rescue course. They are usually a few days and provide knowledge that "16 days this season" cannot. Then, go hike the Gore Trail and check out what you'll be swimming or floating down. I agree with most of the other posters regarding 1. it will be there next year, 2. log some mileage in with other class iv runs
do westwater!


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## wayniac (Mar 31, 2007)

producerchik said:


> I appreciate everyone's advice on this post. I will take everyone's comments into consideration, before making my decision whether or not to do the run through Gore Canyon. There are some people who have made some uneducated comments toward my post. That's because they haven't kept up with my blog, like some others have. Most of the comments were regarding my experience. Don't get me wrong, I am by no means a certified raft guide. But for the record, I have 16 days on the river this year alone and have already done most of the runs suggested to prep me for Gore Canyon. Thanks. If I end up doing Gore, you bet you're sweet a$$ it's gonna be talked about on my blog. So stayed tuned. I'll let everyone know what I decide.


And uh yeah- some of these dummies who commented even took the time (after the reply of course) to ya know, really look at the blog and figure it out- and APOLOGIZE for their response- privately- not that I know these people. But screwups do happen. 
anonymous
aka
wayne


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## blutzski (Mar 31, 2004)

Swimming Gore sucks.

YouTube - Hole Ride in Gore Rapid...


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## COUNT (Jul 5, 2005)

Quality. I love Marty's commentary. It cracks me up every time I watch that video. Marty, you should be a sportscaster; it would make television so much more entertaining.

COUNT


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## class 3 felon (May 14, 2008)

Wow, nice video of Gore Rapid, that's why you'll see my boat putting in at Pumphouse with a cooler full of beer, two dogs and a couple guy's fishing. I'll leave the Class V stuff for you hardcore guys and first year media types with 16 days of experience sitting in a commercial boat. Maybe I should go on 16 commercial trips to build up my skills and confidence. Nahhh! I think I'll keep my sorry ass on the class III stuff and hang with the dogs. Can't wait to "Check out your blog" after your Gore trip, then teir should be some content there. Go check out the Gore Festival and watch other's do it or the hell with all us naysayers and conservative types and just Do it. Nothing motivates me more than someone or everyone telling me I can't or shouldn't do something, plus in the end you'll never have a better feeling than completing it. That adrenaline rush should keep you high for a good 12 hours.


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## raft3plus (Apr 24, 2004)

Yet another Gore Vid; watch it in hi-res. Just made it today. From a run at 2500cfs with all rapids shown except Scizzors and Toilet bowl, cam mounted inside. That was from the run on 7/12.

As you can see, the water there is quite *busy*. Video makes it look a little easier. Go with people who have run it many times to get a handle on the particulars with each rapid. If this is your first year of serious rafting, maybe save it for a different year on a private trip or go during the festival as there will be plenty of safety on race day. Nice research work, well done! See you on the river.

YouTube - Gore Canyon 2500cfs Colorado, Creature Craft Inside Cam

The kayaker beating video was hard to watch. Yipes. Commentary style is awesome!


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## COUNT (Jul 5, 2005)

*My, How This Sport Has Evolved*

I just found this little gem and thought it was pretty entertaining:

From Jim Stohlquist's _Colorado Whitewater_, 1982


> The most difficult and technically demanding runable [sic] rapids on the Colorado are those in Gore Canyon. This canyon, unlike all others downstream [sic] requires the boater to be an expert, capable of handling dangerous rapids, painful portages, and emergency situations that runs like this one often create. If paddling the Gore for the first time without a guide, walking the whole section prior to boating is strongly recommended.
> The action begins at the first big drop 1 mile into the run. See photo. [book shows photo of Tunnel ] You'll want to portage at low flows...Class VI. The next rapid, called "The Gore" is a series of large drops commencing with a Class VI undercut situation. Portage. The drops below (within this rapid) should be individually scrutinized. The next dangerous spot is the waterfall adjacent to the third railroad tunnel. Do not enter the rapid without scouting first. A portage, river-left, is recommended. More of the same type of blind drops precede the last large rapid, Class V, named for Walter Kirshbaum. Kirshbaum was the man who's been credited with many first descents of western canyon runs. His rapid should be scouted from river-left.
> _*Special Note: *_This is an expert run. The sketchy description above is intended as a help for the expert paddler and is not intended for the advanced intermediate boater who is unqualified to make the run.
> Water conditions are critical. Below 1000cfs you'll probably make about 8 portages. Above 2500cfs you'll make one...the whole section. Use expert judgment when scouting drops to determine their runability [sic]. All drops have been done, but not all at any give [sic] water level, or with style. Be prepared for accidents. Bring safety equipment.


COUNT


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## COUNT (Jul 5, 2005)

I believe this was the first guidebook for paddling in Colorado. _A Floater's Guide to Colorado_ (I believe this was the next guide) calls Gore Canyon a "better hike than float."


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## blutzski (Mar 31, 2004)

That's awesome. Good find!


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## wayniac (Mar 31, 2007)

COUNT said:


> I believe this was the first guidebook for paddling in Colorado. _A Floater's Guide to Colorado_ (I believe this was the next guide) calls Gore Canyon a "better hike than float."


 Ah yes- the Floaters Guide to Colorado- along with Rivers of the Southwest- by Fletcher Anderson (god rest his soul) the books that stuck fear in many kayakers and rafters- and made me want to prove them wrong. But remember- they were talking about running stuff in u-disco rafts and other truly suspect equipment. So Cross was no place for rafts (I have helmet cam video of Cross if any one cares to see it) Gore wasn't for rafts (video available) Pine Creek was too small for rafts. The numbers too tights for rafts etc. etc. But what was truly impressive was Walt Blackadar running all this stuff (and way more) in a glass kayak. And this is what I kept in mind when I first ran this stuff- I was simply faking it compared to what he did.


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