# Small boat tips Grand Canyon?



## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

That's sick.

I've seen small rafts with small oars/frames. Hadn't seen an "R1" video, let alone on the Grand. Thank you for posting it!

Not sure I'd love his diet, though: I had 20 days food up front in the bow compartment @ 2lb/day. No stove (1lb buckwheat to soak, 1/2lb dried mangos, 1/2 dried bananas, 1 pack wild caught tuna, 1 pouch almond butter, REPEAT).


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## Andy H. (Oct 13, 2003)

Rig to flip, dress to swim.


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## flite (Mar 31, 2013)

That video is AWESOME!!!! I have a 9'6" saturn raft I've wanted to take through the Canyon but I always end up rowing big boats. How did you get it back over? my boat is easy to re-flip but I usually have other people to help me pull over. Did you just refill mid river? totally bad ass!! thanks for sharing that


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## codycleve (Mar 26, 2012)

Beware of eddy lines.. I have a 10.5 RMR storm I have taken down hells canyon. It ran the rapids great, and I got to take it through the green room.. none of that phased the little boat but some of the eddy lines damn near flipped me. I had a fair amount of bouncing from tube to tube to keep her upright.


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## mattman (Jan 30, 2015)

Nice vid! That you??

Never taken anything smaller than my 14 down there, but in general with my 11' cat on other runs, and my big 14' boat on the larger water, I feel like the up and over strategy is what gets me through right side up, timing my strokes so I stay on top of the water instead of crashing into it. That, and some high siding and moving my weight a bit, more like a kayaker would run something.

Let me know if ya ever need another boat down there, been lucky enough to go the last three winters. The 14' really is starting to not feel all that small down there anymore, bet you could do good with yer little boat, at least many places you can sneak through, and rapids like Chrystal and upset, I really think are easier the smaller your boat is.

Cheers!


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## Electric-Mayhem (Jan 19, 2004)

Smallest boat I've seen in person down there was a Shredder with an Oar Frame. Chatted with him for a while and he said he only flipped twice. Once was bad timing with a wave crash in Lava and the other was when a crazy lady named Mama D (Boise local...I'm sure some of you know her) commandeered his boat and rowed them both through the middle of the hole in 209 rapid.

I had taken my Avon Pro (16') boat the first two times down, and took my 136DD last time. It was way sportier, but other then a rough run through lava that was more due to bad line plus a few close calls messing around in class 3-4 (GC level) rapids...it did great a was a ton more fun especially in the easier class 4-6 (GC scale) rapids. Its also way easier to make moves in that boat...I had no problems making whatever line I wanted. I mention the 136DD...because I'm seriously considering taking my Mini-Max next time just for the fun factor and wonder if it will be to the same difference as the Avon Pro was to the 136DD. 

I bet little boats are a hoot in big water. I may bring it to let people R2 either way...I guess we'll see.

That guy who did the r1 solo is a badass but also a glutton for punishment. After watching a friend try it down Westwater...not sure I'll ever try it myself.


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## mattman (Jan 30, 2015)

Jon the welder, who occasionally posts on hear, has taken his Max down there a few times, with only a flip or two I think.

Holy shit! Our 14' WD surfed the shit out of that hole in 209 last month! It was glorious!! A bow rider on each tube, I was running safety, and so thought I was going to get to pick up peaces, but they totally forward surfed it for a good 30 seconds  Fun times.


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## John the welder (May 2, 2009)

Actually it was a mini-me. One flip ( bad line my fault) and ejected at Lava and the boat did't flip. I had a couple of good kayakers with me just in case. The solo guy is really impressive! The thing I took away from the video was how he learned to anticipate the waves, shift his weight to high side before the hit. I think the biggest lesson is to be ready to move forward when going into holes and laterals. At the put in I ask the ranger what she thought and she replied that I would be fine except maybe Lava, she was right.


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## raymo (Aug 10, 2008)

I agree that video is Awesome! Thanks for posting. Yes, he definitely had a game plan on shifting his weight around, for maximum effect, not his first rodeo for sure. Too much fun.


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## Floatin mucho (Mar 25, 2012)

I took a mini-max down, and can't recommend the small boat aspect enough. It was way more fun than a big boat, and I actually had an easier time than the 14' on our trip. I flipped once in a smaller rapid, but it was due to being lazy and not teeing up to a lateral that looked smaller than it was. Other than that I had a clean run. The 14' on our trip flipped 3-4 times, and had many ejections. The eddy fences were the most unpredictable part of the trip, and they weren't bad compared to some other runs like the Main Salmon at 6'+. My biggest tips would be: get a Tuff river stuff everything bag (they make one sized for mini rafts), and pad everything so that you can be aggressive while high-siding. Also, pay attention to weight distribution and ensure you are not stern heavy. The grand was an eye opener, and I am basically only using bigger boats for trips passengers going forward.


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## nlv5 (Dec 29, 2015)

Any comments on Sotar Legend 12.5' vs 13' Sotar SB for GC? Never rowed a cat before, but have time to get adapted. No passenger, and no gear hauling responsibilities, decadent I know, please don't hate me! Swim averse, but also a realist....Any enlightenment appreciated, thanks


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## Electric-Mayhem (Jan 19, 2004)

nlv5 said:


> Any comments on Sotar Legend 12.5' vs 13' Sotar SB for GC? Never rowed a cat before, but have time to get adapted. No passenger, and no gear hauling responsibilities, decadent I know, please don't hate me! Swim averse, but also a realist....Any enlightenment appreciated, thanks


Both would be a ton of fun...but if you really have no passenger or gear obligations I'd take the Legend every day of the week. That would be a ton of fun down there. Go anywhere you want, hit the big stuff with minimal consequence or skirt stuff easily.

The 13'er might be a bit better as a home base if you might want to sleep on your boat and such though. Kinda nice to have a bit of personal space at camp and a raft with sideboards is great for that.


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## nlv5 (Dec 29, 2015)

Thanks! Your comments are a reassuring sanity check. I am leaning towards the Legend, in part because it seems to have advantages in terms of safety, and is easier to right. Just a bit apprehensive to switch to a cat after decades in bucket boats & self bailers. My sons have graciously released me from a gear load, except some water jugs for ballast. I also have the option to hop in one of the larger boats if I do not like what I see when we scout, and I think the Legend would be a lot more convenient if that happens. Think it is time to try something new!


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## zbaird (Oct 11, 2003)

Nice thing about the grand is for the most part you can bite off as much as you want. There are some exceptions but you can deal with them and no question get a little boat through without a flip if you are good. No reason you can't nail the dory slot in lava and miss the biggest hits. One of the things you'll have to play with is how much to miss and not get thrown into some of the big eddy lines on the edges. You can skirt all the real big hits that you can take in the big boat, but you can make the smaller stuff more fun for sure. Since I mostly run stuff that makes the little boat fun, I think its arguable that I can have more fun in the big boat by running the big water instead of the sneak lines and taking big hits that would dump me in my 12' no question. I have contemplated taking the 12' a couple times and could this spring but will probably take the 16 anyway. Its easier for a couple to live off of the bigger boat and I don't like hauling all my shit up into the sand. Im also not down there to run all the sneak lines.


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## nlv5 (Dec 29, 2015)

Agree Zbaird! Eddy lines and hydraulics are one of my main concerns, as well as breaking through laterals to get to a more conservative route. My circle of competence is NW technical low water, and I rely on agility and finesse. Did GC as a passenger with WiWo back in 78, so know what I will be seeing. Will have some adapting to do for sure....Excited to revisit the Canyon in a small boat.


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