# Smith River Bear proof containers?



## [email protected] (Jun 1, 2010)

I would talk to the ranger, not rely on any opinions here about using non certified/homemade bear proofing. An electric fence (certified) is always a good piece of equipment to have on most rivers. I have seen bear or bear scat on every river I have been on. Had them pass through the camp more than once. Only had one try to make him/herself at home in camp.


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## seantana (Mar 5, 2015)

Just bring a bear fence, you can rent or buy, but it's way easier to deal with than worrying that all your containers are certified.


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## elkhaven (Sep 11, 2013)

I didn't go last year so I don't know if things changed, but 2 years ago, they simply asked "how are you planning on complying?" - no inspection, no hassle. We used a fence. They did mention you could get things approved at the regional forest service offices - they were talking about home made containers or retrofitting. I'm not sure how it would apply to the Engle, er NRS cooler but I'm pretty sure if you can lock it, it'll be fine...I doubt they are going to check it against a list. 

Most sites have trees but not all - that's going to end up being an issue in the long run, if people actually comply using the hanging method, it's going to put a lot of stress on the best trees at each site. My guess is folks will say that's what they are going to do, then never do it. Think about how much stuff you'd be hanging on a typical river trip... We hung our stuff on a SF Flathead trip and it was like 200+ lbs a night going into a tree. It was actually fun at first but did get a bit old by the end of the trip.

The fence is really the way to go, but it still has it's drawbacks. In my mind being bear compliant on the Smith is a complete rethink of packing and rigging as I usually have things stuffed all over (especially beer) and having to totally unpack the boat every night is a PIA. Historically I'd leave my stuff in the boat and get what I need, when I need it. I'd have stuff in drop bags under benches, buckets, dryboxes and coolers. Now, to be truly be truly bear compliant, all that stuff either needs to be in a locakable box or cooler OR come up and get hung or put behind a fence, again kind of a PIA. 

The fence is nice as you can just surround your kitchen... put everything in the kitchen then wrap a fence around it. That doesn't mean you should leave food laying out inside of containers within the fence as that is still an attraction. The best way to avoid bear problems is to keep a clean camp - the rest of this is all BS really. Clean camps all around = no bear problems but unfortunately there are obviously folks not heeding to that.

My fear about all this, especially with fences, is that people will still be slobs and will still attract bears and this whole issue will get worse... At least if you're forced to put everything in a box or in the air, your forced to clean up every night.... with the fence I see way to many people just surrounding their mess for the night. I'd rather see them not worry about bear compliant boxes but worry about clean camps every night. If all the food is put away, even if it's in a wood or plastic box, it's less likely that a bear will be attracted in the first place... it's just that simple.


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## patrick l (Mar 8, 2012)

Agree with elk on all points.
I’ve been down 4 times since they started this new rule and have only had my gear checked once,but I would recommend u having the right gear, there’s always different rangers. 
The bear fence is somewhat practical, hanging your stuff is not at all in my opinion, I have a Mad Cow “bear” box and it’s sweet. 
The problem by far is the garbage/messy camp issue. The last few years, I’ve never seen it so bad. 
Get this, 6/2016 we get to our camp (upper Parker) and there’s 3 different piles of shitty toliet paper laying right in camp, and in another camp earlier the was a half of a fucking watermelon right next to the fire ring. Unbelievable, it did make for a interesting dice game to see who got to pick up the ass wipe.


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## seantana (Mar 5, 2015)

patrick l said:


> Agree with elk on all points.
> I’ve been down 4 times since they started this new rule and have only had my gear checked once,but I would recommend u having the right gear, there’s always different rangers.
> The bear fence is somewhat practical, hanging your stuff is not at all in my opinion, I have a Mad Cow “bear” box and it’s sweet.
> The problem by far is the garbage/messy camp issue. The last few years, I’ve never seen it so bad.
> Get this, 6/2016 we get to our camp (upper Parker) and there’s 3 different piles of shitty toliet paper laying right in camp, and in another camp earlier the was a half of a fucking watermelon right next to the fire ring. Unbelievable, it did make for a interesting dice game to see who got to pick up the ass wipe.


That's fkn gross. Hopefully you noted it on your floater log (heheh) and let them know at the takeout. From what I was told, they take that kind of thing seriously and will locate the permit holder than previously occupied the site.


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## elkhaven (Sep 11, 2013)

seantana said:


> That's fkn gross. Hopefully you noted it on your floater log (heheh) and let them know at the takeout. From what I was told, they take that kind of thing seriously and will locate the permit holder than previously occupied the site.


Unfortunately who knows who did it - probably not the group that camped there the night before. Most likely someone at lunch...or something? At any rate it's pretty hard to know who f'd it up.


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## kengore (May 29, 2008)

With a bear fence you can meet the regulations for a whole group for about $300. I can fit all the coolers, food and trash for a group of 12 inside. Other solutions I looked into were far more expensive.

I used the bear rules to justify buying a Yeti cooler, which is certified bear proof with a padlock. I can leave the cooler in the boat and not need to haul it inside the fence each night.

For trash I modified some 20mm rocket boxes to make them bear resistant (added U-bolts so they can accept a padlock.) You can get your home made modified rocket boxes certified with an inspection, but inside the fence they don't need to be certified.

I'm not sure I trust the fence to discourage a determined bear. So I figure the best practice is to keep a really clean camp.


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## kengore (May 29, 2008)

Here is a link to a .pdf that lists a number of bear certified products, including some modified ammo cans.

http://westernwildlife.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/resistantproducts.pdf


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## missiongravity (Jun 10, 2007)

I'll follow up on Elk and say that they don't inspect thoroughly. However that is no reason to not be compliant. The bear fence is by far and away the easiest way to comply. Find a friend who has chickens or any other bit of livestock and they probably have 20ft of electric fence net you can grab off of them or just grab some at your local feed and seed. Get a piece of rebar for your grounding stake and a solar/battery powered fence charger and be done with it. Takes us 5 minutes to set it up each night. Hell most of the time we just stretch it around the kitchen and be done with it. Peace of mind and can be done for less than $100. That saves the trouble of owning a ton of "bear proof" containers and coolers or stringing shit in a tree.

Fence it. It costs next to nothing. Add in $5 for everyone on your permit and let them buy you a fence. Then you have it going forward.


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## MThikergirl (Jul 7, 2016)

Bear fence is the way to go. The first year we used Ursacks and a bear keg, then we bought a bear fence. I won't ever go back to not having one, well worth the cost. And I was inspected both trips by the ranger. First year because he didn't think Ursacks were approved (he even admitted he'd never seen one before), so he had to check. The second year, he had us actually open the bag to see the fence. Stated that another trip earlier in the year stated they had one, but the rangers who floated found that this party did not have one or any bear proof containers nor did they hang stuff.


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## BAMBAM (Nov 15, 2013)

Thanks for all the input. I think I will go with an electric fence, my cooler is lockable already so that will help.

What brands of electric fences do most people use?

MThikergirl: PM me if you have an interest in renting me your fence set up, I live in Darby. I know you can rent them in White Sulphur Springs but spendy.


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## kengore (May 29, 2008)

I'm using 'Counter Assaulate' like below...
https://www.cabelas.com/product/Cou...VC2x-Ch15QAAuEAYYASABEgKePPD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

Note: most of the components are available at a good Farm Store. The fence netting is sold for poultry fencing and the charger is a standard name brand battery powered unit. I considered buying off the shelf to save money, but the 'counter assault' name brand printed on the stuff sack case will resolve any 'certified' compliance issues with the rangers. (many rivers are adopting bear restrictions) 

The specs an the charger are good for something like a mile of fence, so you could easily expand.


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## [email protected] (Jun 1, 2010)

Back when I was researching bear fences I was told to make sure your charger is 7000+ volts and .09+joules to really discourage the bears. Watched some videos of bears and fences, the fences won. There are so many people (rafters) anymore I do not think they (bears) are very concerned about us being around anymore. Carrying bear spray would not be the worst idea either. Just my two cents.


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## Neffs Whitewater Customs (Feb 8, 2018)

Sending dry boxes in for certification in April when the bears wake up.


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## MThikergirl (Jul 7, 2016)

BAMBAM

I have a counter assault fence, got it at Cabella's. I tried to get Bob Wards to get one in but that was a no-go. 

Depending on when you go I might be able to swing something. I have a few different trips planned where I will need it.


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## BAMBAM (Nov 15, 2013)

*MThikergirl*

My permit is for 4/18. would need charger it 4/17-4/22.


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## missiongravity (Jun 10, 2007)

PM sent BamBam


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## almortal (Jun 22, 2014)

[email protected] said:


> Carrying bear spray would not be the worst idea either...


Just be careful not to spray yourself. That stuff is impossible to get out of quilted Carhartts.


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## okieboater (Oct 19, 2004)

To follow up on almortal's post, last summer I had a bear spray canister that was well out of date. My back yard is next to a green belt. On a windless afternoon, I went to the back fence, held the canister at arm's length and released a few seconds burst away from me. Almost instantly I could feel big time irritation in my nostril's and next breath, big time irritation in my lungs. I dropped the canister and left the area until I was sure things had cleared out.

Bottom Line: I have never used bear spray on a bear, based on the experience above bear spray is really powerful on humans. BE CAREFUL if you play around with bear spray in a non emergency situation !!!!!


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## almortal (Jun 22, 2014)

okieboater said:


> Bottom Line: I have never used bear spray on a bear, based on the experience above bear spray is really powerful on humans. BE CAREFUL if you play around with bear spray in a non emergency situation !!!!!


Also, don't put bear spray in your pocket while sitting in a captains chair trying to cook on a stove on the ground.


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## LSB (Mar 23, 2004)

My wife uses a portable electric fence setup to corral her horses in the back country. She got it at murdochs for about 150$. I've taken it on a few trips but never been checked or had a bear test it. The battery powered charger that comes with it isn't very strong so I take the solar charger off the pig pen. The pigs learn not to touch the wire after the first shock. So they stay away after that. Maybe the bears would too. This is the charger that I use


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## kengore (May 29, 2008)

Counter Assault uses 4 D cells, and is supposed to be good for 30-40 days. I have never needed it for more than 8 days and always start with a fresh set of batteries. The charger unit is designed to accept D cells or a 12v DC input.

The long battery life is because the unit charges up a capacitor to deliver the high voltage shock, but uses a low voltage trigger current in the fence wire. 
It uses a lot of juice when it trips the high voltage shock and not so much in standby mode.

Wet grass blowing in the wind or some other vegetation can be enough to trigger constant shocks. This condition will will drain the batteries quickly.

So check the perimeter for touching leaves, listen to the charger unit (you can hear the high voltage fire off, makes a snap) And keep some spare D cells.


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