# Bailey Fest 2014 Canceled



## gannon_w (Jun 27, 2006)

Dang!


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## Nathan (Aug 7, 2004)

Thanks for all the effort you put into Baileyfest. I'll be there next year.


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## Skillkilla (Mar 29, 2011)

tragic. Was looking forward to it.


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## spthomson (Oct 18, 2003)

Maybe DW can get the releases into Elevenmile up into the 400 area instead, then?


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## tango (Feb 1, 2006)

Dammit. It would be nice if the release from Cheeseman reservoir into the main South Platte could be cut in order to allow a Roberts Tunnel release. They both flow into Strontia Springs (Waterton) below the confluence.

Nevermind, just looked and realized cheeseman is at full capacity, around 79,000 acre-ft. They have to send what's coming into the res into the south platte. Shit.


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## -k- (Jul 15, 2005)

Say it ain't so man, say it ain't so.

http://youtu.be/ee925OTFBCA



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## BrianK (Feb 3, 2005)

Sad. 

So does this mean we won't see any boatable releases out of Roberts this year, or just that they can't plan on a release?

Thanks for all the work you do with Denver Water.


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## Captain (Sep 8, 2013)

Sorry Ian, I cannot even imagine how much work you put into the event, next year will be great. Thanks for all your efforts.

So... does this mean there will be twice as much beer for next year's Bailey Fest?


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## smauk2 (Jun 24, 2009)

Ironic that too much water would cancel Bailey Fest. I'm sorry to hear this Ian, looking forward to next year.


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## cmack (Oct 15, 2006)

Ian... I just wanted to say thanks for all the effort you put into this fest every year. I hadn't missed one yet and wasnt planning on missing this year either. This is one of the things I look forward to most all paddling season. 

Bummer.


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## nemi west (Jun 22, 2006)

smauk2 said:


> Ironic that too much water would cancel Bailey Fest. I'm sorry to hear this Ian, looking forward to next year.



This makes it clear to me that Denver Water still is not fully cooperating with the paddling community They do not see the value in whitewater. 
A few hundred more CFS for 16xtra hours will cause no harm. 
Lake Dillion is full..... It won't draw down its level. There is no flooding downstream to contend with. 

But yes....... I do thankyou for your work with DW and look forward to an even better relationship. I remember when I moved here....... No communication took place. I did also catch Bailey at 800! Much to Pats surprise..... No swims. 
P.S. When I do paddle Bailey I do so with silent protest over my water being stolen and pumped east.


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## craven_morhead (Feb 20, 2007)

Awww, sad to hear it Ian. Thanks again for all of your hard work.


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## Joel_G (Jan 17, 2008)

Damn! This was going to be my first, and I was really stoked. Thanks for all of your hard work Ian. Sorry it didn't work out. Catch you next year.


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## steven (Apr 2, 2004)

thx Ian. Do they understand the planning that went into this based on their commitment to move the water, and that this is pretty last minute for them to back out? surely 2 days of minimum flows would not have messed up their entire system/plan? Sounds like they are not as cooperative/helpful as we had thought, but i'm just venting, and you know the real deal. Thanks again for your efforts, big telluride crew now bummed. looks like gore….


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## steven (Apr 2, 2004)

anyone we can call at denver water to voice our opinion, or would that do more harm than good?


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## streetdoctor (May 11, 2012)

Joel_G said:


> Damn! This was going to be my first, and I was really stoked. Thanks for all of your hard work Ian. Sorry it didn't work out. Catch you next year.


+1

Sorry this happened. It has to really suck with all the work you put in.


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## jmack (Jun 3, 2004)

Sorry it did not work out this year. 

For folks with the inclination to be upset with Denver Water, don't be. They are not providing water because they can't. Denver Water is not an all powerful government agency that gets to move water around as they please. They are just an appropriator (albeit a large appropriator) that has to follow the rules of the prior appropriation system. They have a water right on the west slope for municipal use in the front range. If they can't put the water to that use, they can't bring it over. 

Denver Water never promised water for this event. They just told Ian that they would move their municipal water in a way that works for Bailey if they could. Ian has done a great job creating a good relationship with them, so let's not mess it up by making complaints about something they cannot change.

Anyway, see you all at the Gore Race.


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## Ka-Pow (Jul 14, 2013)

Noooo! I've been training so hard to be ready for BaileyFest. Hardly spilling a single drop from my booty beers. I was ready!


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## Nathan (Aug 7, 2004)

steven said:


> anyone we can call at denver water to voice our opinion, or would that do more harm than good?


I really think this would be counter productive and will do harm. I would advise against making complaints to Denver Water. Don't risk future relationships because the weather didn't work out for kayaking this year. Water is a complex thing and props to Ian for leveraging it for us to get some cheap thrills/drink beer/race foamies in August.


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## AW-Evan (May 27, 2014)

NOOOoooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!! Ouch it hurts deep down inside


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## cmack (Oct 15, 2006)




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## Roy (Oct 30, 2003)

I kept waiting for Ian to say "August Fools!" or something when he broke the news at Black Rock last night. Alas, it was not to be...


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## KSC (Oct 22, 2003)

+1 What jmack said. Denver Water always included this caveat in their agreement to provide a release for the event. They simply don't have the authority to change the release based on the uncommon water conditions this summer. I talked w/ Ian last night & they were as responsive as one can be planning an event around mother nature and have been really accommodating to the boating community. It's a ~5% sort of event whereby they wouldn't be able to do the release and we hit it this year. 

Gore's a better run anyway.


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## Pizzle (Jun 26, 2007)

Hopefully, Gore will hold in the high teens, for a nice friendly low water feel for all those planning on making the big step up to Bailey.


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## adgeiser (May 26, 2009)

I was training harder this year than the last few... All with dreams of crushing at the foamy race. 

Another dream crushed. 


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## deepsouthpaddler (Apr 14, 2004)

Thanks for the support folks. Appreciate it.

I want to say that Denver Water has been very cool with us, and that contrary to statements here... Denver Water ABSOLUTELY understands the value of whitewater recreation, and Denver Water is the ONLY water agency in the entire state that has voluntarily worked with the paddling community to help optimize whitewater kayaking.

Denver Water told me from day 1 that there was always a chance that this type of event could happen. I looked at 30 yrs of weather and flow statistics to pick my dates, and I concluded that there was a 1-5% chance that the event could get canceled. Its a risk I was willing to take.

Denver water can only divert water from the west slope when they can put that water to use and store it. Since cheeseman reservoir is spilling, they can't cut it back, chatfield reservoir is full too, so there is no where to store the water from the north fork, nor is there a need to pull it. It is simply ILLEGAL for Denver Water to bring over water through the tunnel in current conditions, its not about desire to help etc.

I'm doing OK here... much of my planning was able to be pulled due to Denver Water giving me a good heads up ahead of time. I am getting refunds on insurance etc and will not have a major out of pocket expense. Biggest regret for me is seeing how much people love the fest and how much folks will miss is. Someone mentioned last night that they were really looking forward to winning a creek boat at the fest, and I'm sad to say thats not going to happen.

If anything... we should all be graciously thanking Denver Water for 4 solid years of great flows that allowed paddlers from all over the country to enjoy Bailey... a huge deal for the paddling community. Denver Water is willing to do it again next year, in big part due to the relationship I have built with them, and my complete understanding that they could not do the event this year. I know that if they could, they would. Please do not try and contact DW or complain about this... its a gift not a right. 

Thanks!


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## fella (Jul 29, 2008)

Like most everyone, I'm really bummed that one of the best events ever is cancelled! 

But, big thanks to Ian for your continued hard work and commitment. Sometimes that's just how it goes. Lookin forward to next year's Baileyfest!


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## DanOrion (Jun 8, 2004)

Big thanks to Ian and big thanks to some particular Denver Water staff, who have gone far out of their way to make Bailyfest happen with 400+ cfs flows in past years.


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## Roy (Oct 30, 2003)

Meanwhile, Clear Creek is flowing at an unseasonable 500 cfs, and Bailey's loss is Gore's gain--should have a nice, long Gore season if everything's full and they're not diverting through the tunnel. 

Git some!


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## -k- (Jul 15, 2005)

Ian,

As close as this event was to fruition I imagine there is a chance that you may have incurred some up front expenses that may not be recoverable. If that's a strain I am willing to contribute my initial entrance fee if it would be of any help.


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## streetdoctor (May 11, 2012)

-k- said:


> Ian,
> 
> As close as this event was to fruition I imagine there is a chance that you may have incurred some up front expenses that may not be recoverable. If that's a strain I am willing to contribute my initial entrance fee if it would be of any help.
> 
> ...



+1.


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## TonyM (Apr 17, 2006)

Just 'cause I can't make it this year doesn't mean you have to cancel the whole event Ian.


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## JnnyHart (Jun 3, 2014)

steven said:


> thx Ian. Do they understand the planning that went into this based on their commitment to move the water, and that this is pretty last minute for them to back out? surely 2 days of minimum flows would not have messed up their entire system/plan? Sounds like they are not as cooperative/helpful as we had thought, but i'm just venting, and you know the real deal. Thanks again for your efforts, big telluride crew now bummed. looks like gore….


Seriously! two days of water isnt going to touch denver water supply, fucked up! Tired of the colorado water rights bullshit. How is too much water, preventing them from releasing for two days!?


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## cmack (Oct 15, 2006)

JnnyHart said:


> Seriously! two days of water isnt going to touch denver water supply, fucked up! Tired of the colorado water rights bullshit, moving.


You really need to read the other posts in the thread regarding Denver Water. And 2 days of 400cfs in Bailey would egual approximately 1,600acre/feet for what it is worth.


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## JnnyHart (Jun 3, 2014)

cmack said:


> You really need to read the other posts in the thread regarding Denver Water. And 2 days of 400cfs in Bailey would egual approximately 1,600acre/feet for what it is worth.


nope sorry, I understand it completely, I work in it. the system is screwed by lawyers


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## Dave Frank (Oct 14, 2003)

This is a bummer, but understandable. Thanks for all the work Ian.

Is it even possible to buy acre feet from lake dillon, cause we sure don't need 1,600 of them.

100 cfs for 8 hours = 24 acre feet. With a base flow of 177, we only need 200 to be close to 400 in the channel, and we don't really need it for all 48 hours, as nice as that would be. 50 Acre feet released over 4 hours would be very boatable window.

a quick search of the price per acre foot varied by orders of magnitude. I saw from the low end of $50 to the high end of $7,000! even at the low end that's be $2,500.


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## jmack (Jun 3, 2004)

JnnyHart said:


> nope sorry, I understand it completely, I work in it. the system is screwed by lawyers


Break out the pitchforks!


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## chrispy (Apr 6, 2004)

liberal monkey movement would love to play gorefest if they need a band for free....

bummed about baileyfest


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## tango (Feb 1, 2006)

My dudes, 

I work for DW. If you need a scapegoat I will step up to the plate. If anybody asks you can tell them Tango canceled Baileyfest. My supervisor denied my request to get paid while lapping all you gapers like I did last year. 

The boss said, "Tango! You want to collect a paycheck while boofing past hordes of front range pansies who can't kayak without elbow pads, noseplugs, full faces, glasses, and Gopros?! And you want to drink all their beer and take their women?! Unacceptable! Cancel that shit!"




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## Nathan (Aug 7, 2004)

tango said:


> My dudes,
> 
> I work for DW. If you need a scapegoat I will step up to the plate. If anybody asks you can tell them Tango canceled Baileyfest. My supervisor denied my request to get paid while lapping all you gapers like I did last year.
> 
> ...



I think this conversation went more like this:

Tango: Boss, I lost my shit in the Crystal Gorge and don't want the front range pansies to paddle without me.

Boss: Don't worry Tango, I'll cancel that shit!

Either way it is 100% Tango's fault.


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## duct tape (Aug 25, 2009)

deepsouthpaddler said:


> Thanks for the support folks. Appreciate it.
> 
> I want to say that Denver Water has been very cool with us, and that contrary to statements here... Denver Water ABSOLUTELY understands the value of whitewater recreation, and Denver Water is the ONLY water agency in the entire state that has voluntarily worked with the paddling community to help optimize whitewater kayaking.
> 
> ...


Impressive, mature response. You clearly have your shit together.


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## steven (Apr 2, 2004)

Ian- thx for providing better understanding of the water situation. please let us all pitch in to cover any of your unrecoverable costs. hope to see you at gore, and definitely at baileyfest 2015!!!


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## Miller Time (Apr 3, 2009)

A sincere thanks to OB, jK, and the other sponsors that were willing to help with another year. Please let them know we appreciate the generosity. Now cough up that garage full of beer over to us pirates.... 

+1 for covering my entrance fee if it helps recover sunk costs. 


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## lmyers (Jun 10, 2008)

Thanks for everything you do working DW and organizing the fest Ian. I will be looking forward to 2015.


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## deepsouthpaddler (Apr 14, 2004)

Really appreciate the offers on sunk costs, but I'm good, thanks. Most of my costs are refundable or only payable when used. Right now it's looking like I'm out of the hole. 

I was planning on picking up sixty something cases of beer, but that's been canceled too. No garage party!

One thing we can agree on is that it's tangos fault. If he was half as sick at Denver water as he is in a creek boat he would have the tunnel at a grand right now. 

P.S. Gore rules!


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## chrispy (Apr 6, 2004)

*if there is a garage party... Liberal Monkey Movement wants to play music.*

Rock on.
Like us on F.B.


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## stubby (Oct 13, 2003)

Late to respond but sad to hear. Already knew this was a possibility and looking at the recent events and rain thought it might happen. Sad to see it go this way this year. 

Thanks for all your hard work Ian. The man hours you've put into this baby are enormous and without your hard work and Denver Water's willingness to work with you we wouldn't have any Bailey Fest. 
I'll be at Gore to paddle for a day for sure. 


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## mattoak (Apr 29, 2013)

After all, moving water through a tunnel drilled through the mountain is not at all natural. It would open a whole can of worms with more than just water rights if agencies could move around resources at will.


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## deepsouthpaddler (Apr 14, 2004)

Want to keep this fresh to make sure everyone gets the word...


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## streetdoctor (May 11, 2012)

Watertonfest? lol...


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## Preston H. (Jun 25, 2008)

JnnyHart said:


> nope sorry, I understand it completely, I work in it. the system is screwed by lawyers





jmack said:


> Break out the pitchforks!


Screw you and your rights! Those west slope people weren't going to use that water anyway!


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## DanOrion (Jun 8, 2004)

It's funny how lawyers always get the blame. People fighting over stuff, including water, tend to be assholes. They just pay lawyers to be the public face of their assholery. 

With regard to the west slope, I could really use some more trans-mountain diversions right now. 2400 in Gore has a little too much mustard.


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## yourrealdad (May 25, 2004)

Ian,
Wasn't going to make it this year but still appreciate all the hard work you do. Lets get a gore lap or two in still. I don't know what my life would be if I didn't do at least one run with you this season.


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## deepsouthpaddler (Apr 14, 2004)

Gore lap next weekend! Let's do it.


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## Dave Frank (Oct 14, 2003)

Ian, are you at all optimistic about fall releases, or do they have enough water stored downstream to fill autumn calls without moving anything through the tunnel? I assume they prefer to store any water they can, as high in the system as possible.


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## deepsouthpaddler (Apr 14, 2004)

Not too optimistic on future releases from the tunnel this year. Might end up being the year I don't run bailey. With all the surplus water in the south platte system right now it looks like the tunnel won't be needed much. Always a potential for dw to turn it on later but lower natural runoff and typically lower demand later in the year translates to lower likelihood of runnable flows. I'll let you know when I hear different


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## miker (Jan 26, 2006)

I hear chessman got approved to fill up to capacity. When and where will that water come from? 


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## cmack (Oct 15, 2006)

miker said:


> I hear chessman got approved to fill up to capacity. When and where will that water come from?


I thought Cheesman was already spilling? Either way, they are running almost 300cfs through Elevenmile, which will end up in Cheesman.


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## deepsouthpaddler (Apr 14, 2004)

Cheeseman is about 250 acre-ft above full capacity now, so it's already full and spilling what is coming in plus some. The water has come from flood event precip, high snowpack and monsoon rains. Pretty much all the reservoirs are full right now on the south plate end. Dillon and green mtn are full too.


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## jortsKing (Jan 9, 2014)

What's eleven mile like at that flow? Could you r2 a smaller raft in there?


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## lmyers (Jun 10, 2008)

I wouldn't recommend it, there are some tight moves in there....although I'm sure it can be done...


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## cmack (Oct 15, 2006)

jortsKing said:


> What's eleven mile like at that flow? Could you r2 a smaller raft in there?


I think at 300 and up, you can definitely get a small raft down it, but bring the smallest raft you got. There are a few drops that contain some very narrow slots that you could get hung up on and there will likely be a few lines that will be run a little differently. You will likely have a portage also, as there is a riverwide tree that fell into the river years ago which we actually boat over in kayaks, but the line is extremely narrow and barely goes at 300, so it will likely not go in a raft. Everything is easy to see from the road as well.


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## whitstraw12 (Mar 27, 2013)

Will they release water any time in the next couple months?



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## afox (May 10, 2004)

*water is expensive!*

So, I was curious how much it would "cost" denver water to basically give us 300 cfs for a day, the cost would be because the water would be "wasted" since it cannot be stored it would flow downstream to wherever...

Here's my math, please chime in and correct me if im wrong:

300 cfs = 595 acre feet per day according to this calculator:
Conversion Factors

I assume that is for 24 hours. Denver water charges $338 per acre foot of raw water (source below) so:
595 * $338 = $201,110 for 24 hours of 300 cfs. If this number is anywhere near the ballpark it really puts things in perspective for me.

2014 Rates Outside the Combined Service Area | Denver Water


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## BrianK (Feb 3, 2005)

afox said:


> 595 * $338 = $201,110 for 24 hours of 300 cfs. If this number is anywhere near the ballpark it really puts things in perspective for me.


I have $20 to contribute to this fund. 

Off topic, but is Elevenmile worth kayaking at 288cfs?


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## cmack (Oct 15, 2006)

BrianK said:


> Off topic, but is Elevenmile worth kayaking at 288cfs?


It goes. The top V is bony and flipping should be avoided at all costs. The rest of the run is fun IV-, mostly read-n-run creeking (excluding the bottom rapid). There are some shallow spots, some gravel bars and flatwater, but if you are looking for some fun, lower consequence, low stress creeking in a gorgeous canyon then it could be a good call. I wouldn't say it is worth a long drive though, unless you are desperate. 

It is low, easy and fun from 275-350. Starts getting much, much more fun at levels over 400.


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## deepsouthpaddler (Apr 14, 2004)

The cost of water is an interesting topic. One person asked me how much it would cost if we got some farmers to buy some water and get the tunnel to release. 

Just to clarify... Dillon is a Denver Water structure that stores Denver Water water rights. Farmers can't call up the tunnel and get releases, only DW can do this. DW can play with where they get their water because they have multiple sources, and they can trade etc. 

The main reason the tunnel is not on right now is that the south platte is at Free River status, which means there are no calls on the river and everyone with water rights on the south platte is getting all the water they need with some left over in the river. When that is the case, there is no need to divert water from the west slope, and its actually against the legal document that Denver Water operates under which is the Blue River compact. 

Anyhow... no releases, can't buy the water, done. But, gore is running!


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## basil (Nov 20, 2005)

A few years back, Golden claimed a water right of 1000 cfs through the Golden water park for recreation. 

Is there any way that we can hire a water lawyer and claim some water coming down the NF South Platte for recreation? This may establish a legal basis for diverting water through the tunnel in future years?


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## wyosam (May 31, 2006)

basil said:


> A few years back, Golden claimed a water right of 1000 cfs through the Golden water park for recreation.
> 
> Is there any way that we can hire a water lawyer and claim some water coming down the NF South Platte for recreation? This may establish a legal basis for diverting water through the tunnel in future years?


I would doubt a water right for recreation on a cross basin diversion- and in reality it would be tough to support even as a boater (maybe easier if Bailey were in my back yard). Was hoping to get on Bailey for the first time when I'm in CO next week, but not in the cards this year I guess.


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## lmyers (Jun 10, 2008)

basil said:


> A few years back, Golden claimed a water right of 1000 cfs through the Golden water park for recreation.
> 
> Is there any way that we can hire a water lawyer and claim some water coming down the NF South Platte for recreation? This may establish a legal basis for diverting water through the tunnel in future years?


Recreational In-Channel Diversions

On behalf of the State of Colorado, the CWCB reviews all applications for recreational in-channel diversions (RICDs), which limit water rights to the minimum stream flow necessary for a reasonable recreational experience in and on the water. The size and magnitude of flows protected by many of the RICD water rights to date have the potential to restrict future upstream development potential and may reduce the flexibility that Colorado has to manage its water resources. The RICD legislation was established in 2001 and amended in 2006 and may be subject to further legislation and court challenges. 

The CWCB Board’s review of RICD applications focuses on three areas: 
Will the application promote the maximum beneficial use of water?
Will the application impair Colorado’s ability to fully develop its compact entitlements?
Will the application adversely impact CWCB instream flow water rights?
The CWCB Board provides its findings to the water court after deliberation in a public meeting. The water courts must consider the CWCB findings. The water courts must also consider whether:
The water right sought is the minimum necessary for a reasonable recreational experience;
The RICD is accessible; and
The RICD is an appropriate stream reach.

http://cwcb.state.co.us/environment/recreational-in-channel-diversions/Pages/main.aspx
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I don't believe this really has any bearing on Bailey.


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## Preston H. (Jun 25, 2008)

basil said:


> A few years back, Golden claimed a water right of 1000 cfs through the Golden water park for recreation.
> 
> Is there any way that we can hire a water lawyer and claim some water coming down the NF South Platte for recreation? This may establish a legal basis for diverting water through the tunnel in future years?


You can't force Denver Water to turn the tunnel on for recreation. At least not until we get enough Californians in the state to pass the public trust ballot initiative.


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## njcasa (May 19, 2013)

Still Selling the Shirts?
the bailey fest un-fest 
I'd love to buy one in small


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## duct tape (Aug 25, 2009)

Was actually thinking the same thing the other day. I'd like to have a shirt to go with last year's.

- Jon


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## deepsouthpaddler (Apr 14, 2004)

Canceled the shirt order withing 24 hrs of printing them... so no shirts this year. If you want to make your own, I can send you some art work.

Don't think a RICD would work on bailey. Natural flows are barely enough to get the run going, and supplemental tunnel flows are key to getting it to run. Probably very tough to do a RICD for a diversion since its not an "in channel" thing, but a diversion through someone elses infrastructure.


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## DanOrion (Jun 8, 2004)

The only way to guarantee a great Bailey Fest every year is to foster sprawling suburban growth, vast lush golf courses and opulent lawns from Castle Rock to Fort Collins. And facking. Poseidic levels of hydraulic fracturing.


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## deepsouthpaddler (Apr 14, 2004)

Final friendly reminder... No Bailey Fest this weekend. And then there was gore!


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## deepsouthpaddler (Apr 14, 2004)

FYI, just got a response from Denver Water. They have read this thread, and they appreciate how I have communicated this event cancelation to the community here. DW has used this communication as an example of how this agreement works. Thanks again to Denver Water for working with our paddling community!


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