# Alto Alto... potentially the best runnable water on the front range...



## craven_morhead (Feb 20, 2007)

Craw, I got my first run in on AA last weekend, and was kind of... whelmed. The crux section was fun to be sure, but I'm not sure about the New Testement's proclimation that it's one of the best class IV runs in the area. One good IV rapid does not a great class IV run make.


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## tellutwurp (Jul 8, 2005)

not sure of the difference in between 750 and 1000, but we are able to miss the huge hole at the bottom of rail road rapid earlier this year. It is rocky just below. Tuck hard and roll fast.

It is a great run and just close enough for after work play.


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## thecraw (Oct 12, 2003)

Craven... I hear yeah. And if I didn't have the experience last night, I would agree fully. 1000cfs was a tremendous difference from the most I had been in there in the past... roughly 550ish.
To clarify my point, I am talking about right now... The big T takes Alto by a mile when it's running 550 and up. Boulder Creek even takes it once it's 500 and up... Black Rock at 800 etc... but not much is running strong at the moment, and nothing at a 1000.
A good portion of my stoke on last nights run was the surprise. But bottom line, it was challenging, wilderness, and some real seat of your pants hole dodging.

Looks like it's starting to drop... get after it.


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## jmack (Jun 3, 2004)

Bailey at 750 is about 100 time better. Go to Bailey.


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## Melrose (Nov 2, 2005)

Our crew also did A/A last night. Fun to do something else, definitely not Bailey at 700. We took a safety break and hiked the mini gorge rapid for second lap. We put-in at the Jumbo Mountain picnic area. Anything above this worth paddling?


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## arkriverrat (Apr 11, 2005)

What time of day do you leave for an "after work run"? If it is 6ish I'd be down for it today, never been on it at this level, but several runs 500-750ish. 
Tim
303-562-5484


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## jmack (Jun 3, 2004)

There is one worthy drop about 10 miles upstream. Solid step up from the AA run. You go through two culverts, down a slide, and then into a manky rapid...and repeat. Might be beefy at 1000. I've run it around 500.


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## Livingston (Jan 8, 2004)

I had only been in there at real low water. Can't remember the flow but if you click on the Eddy Flower description you can see me on my one and only run in my new Gradient, spash-top, used paddle, and cheap ass helmet, scraping down my 2nd or 3rd creek run ever. Circa 2001. Lots of rocks visible. 








(newbie)

I was initially bummed we were running Alto-Alto last night. Even had a beer before we put on. Let me just say my perception has been alter-altered. I'd probably take the creekboat in there at that flow next round.
At that flow, gear recovery is a serious issue and leashes are sketchy with no eddys. You gotta grab for trees and bushes.
Gotta love Craw calling out Mag's swim in public though. That'll learn him.
-d


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## PhillyBoop (Oct 30, 2003)

I remember that day, I was in a Kinetic! When I was still a "boater". That was my second run down of Alto Alto. It was like 175 Cfs (Benny described it as a Hockey Match)

That was my first "creek" in 99 or 2000. Benny (in an Prijon Alien) almost got pinned after the second gorge and swam, Darren was in WS Z and flipped between the tunnel and last drop, rolled up like a champ. I was sh#ting myself in the Kinetic running clean up and after the final drop , had to get out of my boat and rethink life for 5 mins. It was only running at 300 cfs!  The old testament said fun fact "wave trains", we thought is was a class 3 play run.

Glad Magovern is in one piece.
-J


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## CapnWishy (Apr 21, 2005)

It was really cool in there. Over the head water in a small gorge. Too bad I got the beat down and lost my paddle. If anyone finds it please call me. 303-618-1278. Werner Powerhouse bent shaft, red blades w/ WildWasser poggies. Thanks.

Oh... the hike out pretty much sucks ass. Don't wear play booties if you plan on swimming and loosing your paddle.


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## brandf (May 4, 2004)

Anyone want to go do lower Alto-Alto...down to Gross? Probably won't find that paddle, but most definitely will find some hair.


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## craven_morhead (Feb 20, 2007)

Or, more generally, don't wear play booties on a wilderness run.


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## JHimick (May 12, 2006)

I ran Alto last Saturday with some folks I found on the Buzz. None of us had seen the run. I think all of us were surprised how big the water was. Definitely stompy in the sections Craw described and as he said, some real seat of your pants hole dodging. In the second gorge the play boat (S6) in our posse got stuffed hard and resulted in a swimmer. At the bottom of the rapid another of our motley crew swam which resulted in me chasing a Burn to the take-out. Fortunately our swimmers were okay, save for one goose egg on the forehead, and we didn't loose any gear in the end. Few eddies for sure.

Say, Bob... where's my beer? And Nate, I think Mike is thirsty too.


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## COUNT (Jul 5, 2005)

Yeah, I don't know man. I mean, Alto-Alto is a lot of fun, but better than Blackrock at 500? Not to mention WFCC has been running solid for a while. AA's good. I'm not willing to concede that it's the best though.


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## Ture (Apr 12, 2004)

COUNT said:


> ...Not to mention WFCC has been running solid for a while. ...


Just so you all know.... there is a new (green leaves and all) tree all the way across the top of the crux rapid in lower WFCC (West Fork Clear Creek). I'm talking about the LOWER section, which you start in Empire and paddle to the confluence and then down do Dumont. This is the IV+ (V-) section below the class V stuff that lots of people think about when they think WFCC.

The crux is the biggest drop... you can see it near the pullout where the I-70 lane merges with I-40 going up the hill. It is that 8 footer that looks like it could kick someone's ass if they mess it up.

We didn't look upstream of that. We scouted and ran the rest of it below the crux and it was clean (thanks to a day of hard labor this winter).

I doubt anyone would ever run that section without scouting it first because that would result in getting stuffed under a log if you did that enough times, but I give a heads up nonetheless.

It will require a chainsaw and a come-along or some rope work to nibble on the trunk end, pull, nibble, repeat, until it is out of there. It is about 18" thick or so. The first cut has been made to get bottom of the trunk off but it still needs work.


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## ACC (Oct 30, 2003)

just so you all know . . . west fork clear creek is the mankiest run on the frontrange.


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## danger (Oct 13, 2003)

that sounds like a task for kaleb. the lower west fork is one of the most under appreciated pieces of mankness in the front range. along with turkey creek and bear creek below 100cfs, the lower WFCC caps a mank lovers trifecta soufflé.

also, the drop you mention is lovingly referred to as fur ball.

dan


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## Ture (Apr 12, 2004)

ACC said:


> just so you all know . . . west fork clear creek is the mankiest run on the frontrange.


LOL. Yes, I've been thinking about the definition of manky lately. I frequently hear people rating mankiness but I'm not sure what the criteria is. I have always assumed that manky meant "full of unavoidable sharp rocks" but that describes every creek I've ever paddled so I don't even use the term any more.

I tend towards low flows because pushy whitewater scares me so maybe I'm just a mankster? I like that because it reminds me of an old Too $hort song that I blew out the woofers on my roommate's speakers with back in the day. Replace "gangster" with "mankster" and you have my song:

"So you want to be a gangster.. all that shit
Smoke any motherfucker, dont even trip"


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## scabies (May 20, 2007)

JHimick said:


> Say, Bob... where's my beer? And Nate, I think Mike is thirsty too.


yeah i forgot! i'll take that beer whenever.

i liked Alto but it was over pretty quick, it was a lot of boogie water and no eddies at 600.


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## cayo 2 (Apr 20, 2007)

Lefthand belongs on the manky list,never done WFCC or Turkey but it is at least as manky as Bear Creek.Two attempts this year one at a respectable level, made it half way down past the second narrows the best part other than the crux and probably the mankiest part,then couldn't avoid some jagged ass fan rock in a mellow part and ripped a 10" gash in my ducky had to bail.Went back 3 or 4 days later,it was low 2 inches below the gauge ,we decided to run it thinking it would be easier,wrong there was an F U rock about every half a boat length had a lot of problems[ picture running a Dancer down Bear creek at low water] and a couple of short but brutal swims,shins and kneecap beat to hell.Jason stomped everything except a piton in the crux and alot of boat abuse to his Nomad.Still love that little fucker,most enduring memory was of Jason holding a bush with one hand and my boat with the other and yelling at me to hurry up as his arms were being pulled out of the sockets then saw a bear with 2 cubs at the takeout.

Don't know about AA that high but Foxton at 700+ is as good or better than AA AT 500 TO 600 like someone said it is just one good 4 and 2 or three big holes to skirt,i imagine they and the ones in Railroad Tunnel are way burly at 1000 + though.


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## Melrose (Nov 2, 2005)

*Thread lives*

Alto Alto is at that level....snuck in an after work paddle tonight, didn't leave boulder till 6:30pm. Fun big waves and holes to punch and skirt. Feels like some big water in those little gorges. Consider this run for your evening fix.

This thread made me laugh, I was gonna start my own or comment on a more recent one, but heck, this one includes the COUNT.


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## jonny water (Oct 28, 2003)

Great to hear about Alto-Alto as I love that section...and the COUNT! Would love to run that tomorrow or Boulder Creek.


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## Skillkilla (Mar 29, 2011)

tell you guys what, dumonts level was running at about 730 ,so this morning we ran it and kermits right after at about 835 and whooo ! that's a blast. real close too, bout 40 min away.


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