# best R2 R3 boat



## tombonanno (Mar 23, 2012)

Looking to get a boat to do some R2 and R3. Whats your pick and why? Thanks


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## thebog (May 25, 2013)

Super Puma! I've R2'd and R3'd this boat down Cherry Creek out in CA and done some milder class IV river running in it. It turns on a dime, and is narrow enough to have some punching ability with only 2-3 people in it. It may not be quite as stable laterally as some of the wider rafts, but you can't blame flips on the boat!

-Daniel


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## livin_tll (Apr 2, 2011)

Hyside MiniMax


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## johnovice (Jul 17, 2009)

http://www.mountainbuzz.com/forums/f15/puma-or-mini-max-38984-2.html

There is a photo near the top of this thread that show 3 in a minimax -- just to give you an idea of the fit.


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## neilman (Apr 16, 2011)

*Sotar*

Sotar makes a 10 ft raft with larger tubes than any other rafts I have seen which gives it more lateral stability. We have been taking it down Bailey canyon and it is a great boat.


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## carvedog (May 11, 2005)

Some buddies R2ed a 12 foot Rocky Mtn Raft down Marsh Creek and the Middle Fork Salmon this spring. They ran Dagger no problem. Punched the hole in Velvet at 6.5 feet and had one swimmer. Flipped in Rubber, but nobodies perfect. They rocked it and I was impressed with the raft for sure. I thought we would see a lot more carnage from them. 

I used to R2 a Williwaw 1 Maravia ( 13 foot ) quite a bit and had a ball in that.


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## BoilermakerU (Mar 13, 2009)

+1 for the MiniMax! We have one and have been R2ing, R3ing and R4ing that thing this summer. It's a blast. Best purchase I have made since I got into this sport.


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## wsmckinney (Jun 21, 2010)

*Rocky Mountain, baby!*

Tommy B!,

Glad you are entering the world of R2ing! I am the R2er Carvedog referred to. Most likely RMR 12' will perform exceptionally on anything you run, unless you're running the nasty, like Mania (a.k.a Vallecito!!). I cannot overstate how badly I have abused my 12' RMR and she is still as good as new. Not saying I don't get a chub every time I see a MiniMax or a Super Puma, but I am 100% satisfied with me boat. 

I live in Durango as well. If you want to take my boat out for a test splash shoot me a PM. 

Best, Wade


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## John the welder (May 2, 2009)

Mini-me or mini-max. Why? weight and the ability to pack into a small package.


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## tombonanno (Mar 23, 2012)

I have a 14'3" R Aire with frame for overnights. So i would like something to do the upper A and the pierdra. Puma or mini-max?


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## Flohotter (Jun 22, 2010)

Mini Max here. What stretches are you running?


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## raftus (Jul 20, 2005)

A Maravia Spider is the boat we took down the Big South Fork of the Cache la Poudre. It handled quite well but was a pain to carry out at the end (112 lbs.). It's fat 20.5" tubes, diminishing tube design and lots of rocker make it a great boat for running hard whitewater. At $4195 it ain't cheap.

I have a shredder and for R2 it is great. I'm not sure how it would handle waterfalls - i haven't tried yet - but its 46 lb weight is awesome and it's super maneuverable. It also makes a sweet mini oar rig and at about $1800 the price is right. The Aire Sabertooth paddle cat looks nice with it's fairy slipper design (like a SOTAR Legend or AIRE Wave destroyer), but at 80 lbs its heavy for a paddle cat. And both paddle cats are really for R2, not R3. 

A Hyside Mini-max is at a nice weight (67 lbs), price ($2,400) and capacity (4 people). The mini-me is so small the it's flips pretty easy and it's only $200 cheaper. My vote is for the Mini-Max. If you're running class V I would consider bigger tubes and a bit of extra width for stability - but the Mini-max is a sweet little boat.


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## carnuba (Jul 22, 2008)

10 ft otter supper stable for its size


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## tombonanno (Mar 23, 2012)

How do like the pin and thwart system on the mini max?


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## Flohotter (Jun 22, 2010)

tombonanno said:


> How do like the pin and thwart system on the mini max?


Frustrating at first, now I like them better than the other styles I have used.


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## Floatin mucho (Mar 25, 2012)

Mini max if you don't want to rely on the train, the hike out of rockwood will be less painfull with the lighter boat... The puma will probably be tougher tho.


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## sflanagan21 (Aug 20, 2013)

I have a mini max and a 12' Aire Trib'. The MM is more of creek style boat for me but it will hold up in most Class 5's. When I'm R2'n big stuff then I bring out the Trib and she is a BEAST! Ya can't go wrong with either in my opinion...


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## brendodendo (Jul 18, 2004)

I love my Super Puma. (biased) She is big enough to cram the family (Wife, 2 kids and dog) in for a night or 3 and small enough to run Slaughter House, Bogan Canyon and other tight and technical runs in CO. Super fun to row or paddle on bigger water runs like Westy or Cataract. Best $1600 bucks I ever spent (thanks Steven)

Ran a Mini Max (neoprene) down Bailey for the fest. Great boat. Felt really maneuverable and handled great. The boat did not drain as fast as the SuperPuma and felt like it had rock Velcro on the bottom. It wanted to stick to every rock that we hit and at one point (operator error) wrapped and disappeared under water. 

I'd buy a mini max if all I did was creek rafting. I'd add a large boat to the mix for overnights if it was in the budget (Maravia Willy 2 or Aire 156R/E or Sotar ST15). If I had to do it over again with one boat, it would still be the Super Puma.


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## planetsandman (May 23, 2011)

I love to R2 my mini-me, but have to agree about it being easy to flip. If you are planning on only one boat I would get something at least 11-12 feet long, from what I have seen and heard on the river the Super Puma is a favorite (at least out East).


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## BoilermakerU (Mar 13, 2009)

tombonanno said:


> How do like the pin and thwart system on the mini max?


It's the only thing I am not particularly fond of, but have gotten used to. I am used to the system on my NRS, which I really like. I wouldn't hold the Hyside system agains the Mini-Max though, it's not that bad. I'd buy the Mini-Max again in a heartbeat.

As a couple of others have mentioned, the weight is great too. My wife isn't all that strong, and the two of us have no problems carrying it around. Pulled it up out of the river bed on Clear Creek after running Beaver Falls (rather than going to the next take out), carried it down the bike path in Boulder, etc. Even my 9 year old son can help me carry it.

Throw a couple of paddles in it, a throw bag, and off you go!


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## Pinkturtle (Aug 4, 2011)

Having paddled a Puma, Mini Me and Mini Max this year.... I just bought a Puma. My wife and I R2'd the Ocoee yesterday (her first time R2ing) and I'm glad we went with the Puma. The Puma is more stable, IMO, than the Hysides -- I'm a guide and you won't often hear me say that an Aire boat is more stable than anything, but that's when I'm talking about taking clients (non-paddlers / non-swimmers) down a Class IV river. The Puma handled nicely, was responsive but didn't feel squirrely at all. The Hysides, to me, are sketchy. Hiwassee Outfitters in Reliance, TN has an air floor Puma for $1350. It's in good shape for the age. Call and ask for Charlie -- he'll negotiate better with ya!


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