# Dory kit / plans - Timber Boatworks



## Contor (Sep 10, 2018)

Good luck on your endeavor. It should help more folks get into building dories. 

What type of self bailing system do you like?


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## beaversnot (12 mo ago)

Contor said:


> Good luck on your endeavor. It should help more folks get into building dories.
> 
> What type of self bailing system do you like?


Thanks!
The current boats both have the middle section drain to the rower footwell and through a vertical tube out the bottom, like a Briggs boat. One previous one was built for thinner water and had drain tubes out both sides, so it could slide over shallow spots without hitting the tube.

the stern drains out holes on each side, just above the rear floor (about 8” above the water) originally I had flaps covering these but it works just as well without, so they aren’t there any more.

for the passenger footwell I like a scared passenger with a bucket


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## Bobthegreat (Mar 3, 2019)

nice Lines. What do you think a set of printed plans will cost?


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## LZMJRAFT (May 3, 2021)

Just curious what is the empty weight on one of these?


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## Contor (Sep 10, 2018)

Thx, sounds like a good design. Right now my boat has no drains or scuppers. I’m beginning to look at options. Good to know you could remove your flaps on the back at 8 inches above the water line. If you had them in the front well, the flaps might be nice. I’m assuming you want a raised floor if side drains are used in the forward well. 
What size pipe or tubing do you recommend for the oarsman’s footwell drain? 
I’m considering options now, thanks for sharing your approach. It’s nice to hear about a design that is working well on the water. I am a little nervous about drilling holes in a sound hull. Quite a bit of fiddling to repair flawed designs once they are installed. 
Admirable scuppers on surf dories, but that design is not likely best for a river dories.


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## beaversnot (12 mo ago)

Bobthegreat said:


> nice Lines. What do you think a set of printed plans will cost?


The long term plan is to just sell kits, since the CAD design and CNC fabrication allows for some pretty cool and time saving tabbing and other joinery / nesting. For the plans only, if you can get them printed yourself locally (requires a 48" plotter, many shops only have 36-42" capacity), I'd probably do it on some sort of "pay what you think it's worth deal," especially if you're willing to share photos for the builders manual. Send me an email or PM and we could discuss further.


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## beaversnot (12 mo ago)

LZMJRAFT said:


> Just curious what is the empty weight on one of these?


It depends a bit on the laminate schedule. The original one I built weighed a bit over 300 lbs. That boat had 6oz S glass inside and out on decks and bulkheads, 8 oz S glass on the inside of the floor, and a cumulative 32 oz on the bottom of the floor if I remember right (20 oz triaxial E glass over 6 oz S glass with a 4oz E glass outside to hold the graphite and smooth it out. The seams were single 6oz tapes with tape doubled up on the floor / sides joints and at the bow. The floor on that boat was vaccum bagged, but that isn't at all necessary. 

The production boats will have a recommended laminate schedule and materials list, but folks can go heavier or lighter depending on where they want to run it and how many rocks they plan to hit. The target weight is 350#, but I haven't built one to the exact laminate schedule that we will spec. Chris and Dan guessed that their boat is in the 350-400 lb range, but haven't weighed it. Hope that helps. 

The 14' boats that I'm planning next should be significant lighter, mostly saving weight with fewer and lighter bulkheads. The floors on all of the boats are 2 layers 6mm meranti with offset puzzle / scarf joints. The inside layer has tabs for bulkhead alignment while the outside is laminated on later. This slightly thicker floor will allow for a bit less glass than the original boats had. For people running in shallow spots or hitting lots of rocks, Dynel or Kevlar are a good idea. Graphite is specced for all floors.


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## beaversnot (12 mo ago)

Contor said:


> Thx, sounds like a good design. Right now my boat has no drains or scuppers. I’m beginning to look at options. Good to know you could remove your flaps on the back at 8 inches above the water line. If you had them in the front well, the flaps might be nice. I’m assuming you want a raised floor if side drains are used in the forward well.
> What size pipe or tubing do you recommend for the oarsman’s footwell drain?
> I’m considering options now, thanks for sharing your approach. It’s nice to hear about a design that is working well on the water. I am a little nervous about drilling holes in a sound hull. Quite a bit of fiddling to repair flawed designs once they are installed.
> Admirable scuppers on surf dories, but that design is not likely best for a river dories.


If you have a standard footwell with the forward, side and aft decks draining to it, a drain will make your life so much better! If you run somewhere that you won't slide over too many gravel and cobble bars, I'd put it through the bottom since it drains fast and is simple. 1.5" hose should be sufficient, although my Briggs boat has two of them on either side going straight down, each 1.5". Thru hull fittings with hose barbs can be epoxied and glassed directly into the hull, so that there is no protrusion on the top or bottom (nothing to catch on the bottom, or keep water from draining on the top). These are the ones that I've used before: Flush Head Marelon Thru-Hull - Fully Threaded - Forespar | Fisheries Supply If you're worried about draining fast enough, just put in two like Jerry Briggs did on his later boats. 

If you run somewhere shallow I would put two thru hull fittings in either side of the bottom of the footwell and drains epoxied just above the chine on either side panel. That way you can slide over shallows without worrying about catching the drain hole fitting. 

The scuppers only work well if you don't have a footwell. The stern of these boats is designed so that the passenger sits on the stern hatch looking forward, with the lowest point about 8" above the water fully loaded. I would not put them in a standard footwell that extends to the bottom of the boat, like in the front of the 15'8" design or on both ends of a standard Briggs boat. If you don't think your passengers can bail fast enough, I'd think about either an electric bilge pump, or preferably a permanently mounted high capacity Whale Gusher or Edson diaphram bilge pump with a long handle. The large Edsons are expensive but move either 18 or 30 gpm with a long handle and will never break. The Gushers are far more affordable and are rated in the 12-18 GPM range- more if you have enthusiastic passengers.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

Very cool. Beautiful lines.

My 16’-9” AndyH GC dory is a BIG 530# boat and overkill for NW rivers. Think about dory sizes the way you think about rafts…14-15’ would be ideal for PNW day trips, weekends, the Salmon, and still big enough for the Grand.


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## beaversnot (12 mo ago)

MT4Runner said:


> Very cool. Beautiful lines.
> 
> My 16’-9” AndyH GC dory is a BIG 530# boat and overkill for NW rivers. Think about dory sizes the way you think about rafts…14-15’ would be ideal for PNW day trips, weekends, the Salmon, and still big enough for the Grand.


totally agreed- everyone needs a quiver of dories 

These smaller boats- 14-15’8- are really designed to fill a hole on the market. There are awesome options for bigger boats and doryaks, but I haven’t seen much in the middle, which as you say is pretty versatile, a bit lighter, and fun to row!


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## Contor (Sep 10, 2018)

Beaversnot
I love your CNC tab idea. Genius.


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

Contor said:


> Beaversnot
> I love your CNC tab idea. Genius.


And me, being more of a trad guy, I'm thinking, cool, but not for me. 

I'd be more interested in things like pre made ribs, hatch frames, and especially a transom and bow post with rolling bevels than a whole "insert tab a into slot b" sort of thing, and I don't think (and yes, I've seen it done) that I'd want a boat made out of corraplast or any of it's similar materials.. 

Good old wood, warm, strong, easy to repair, and for me, historically correct. Yes, they didn't have all the polymers and such we have today, no cyanoacylate adhesives, no CNC router tables, this whole idea of a mass produced CNC boat, everyone the same, well how the hell does the boat "fair" itself? 

Where's the pride in ownership that comes from hand building a boat? So many ways I can poke holes in this, in MY OWN MIND, FOR A BOAT I WOULD WANT TO BUILD, For me, this is more of an emotional dilemma I guess than you guys..


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## Contor (Sep 10, 2018)

To MNichols
I understand your sentiment. To some, plywood, epoxy, resins, fiberglass and other modern non-traditional materials and methods are acceptable. For others, a traditional wood boat can only include natural wood and natural oil finishes. The tab and slot plywood idea widens the continuum of choices for wooden dories, but will certainly not be for everyone.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

MNichols said:


> And me, being more of a trad guy, I'm thinking, cool, but not for me.
> 
> I'd be more interested in things like pre made ribs, hatch frames, and especially a transom and bow post with rolling bevels than a whole "insert tab a into slot b" sort of thing, and I don't think (and yes, I've seen it done) that I'd want a boat made out of corraplast or any of it's similar materials..
> 
> ...


You gonna build that boat with epoxy at the chine and resorcinol in the plywood?

If you want traditional, you darn well better be using hide glue, cotton caulk, tar, pitch, clinch nails, and no carbide-tipped power tools.





If Buzz Holmstrom did it in the dirt basement under his mom's house (from a log he drug off the beach), you can do it!
Just sayin'!


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

MT4Runner said:


> You gonna build that boat with epoxy at the chine and resorcinol in the plywood?
> 
> If you want traditional, you darn well better be using hide glue, cotton caulk, tar, pitch, clinch nails, and no carbide-tipped power tools.
> 
> ...


You know damn well what I'm talking about you smart ass sob. I don't have anything against Meranti, or liquid snot when it's used where it's needed. You know who taught me how to build boats LOL.. 

Somebody, and it may even have been you, or john, or Kevin, sent me a link to an article on face crack about some gal that CNC cut a boat out of something very similar to corraplast, was completely and totally neat, came out beautiful, but it wasn't something I would have done, not something I would have bought, and I probably would have rowed it just to see how it handled, just not my thing. It's fine for you LOL just like them beautiful plastic oars that you cast...


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

You curmudgeons, you.

But I admittedly use a LOT of epoxy in my oars...laminated rather than carving them out of a single solid plank. It's stronger than trusting the grain in a single board, it uses less wood, and I'm also able to use harder/heavier, stiffer/stronger, and lighter woods selectively where they make the most sense. That wouldn't happen without glue.


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

MT4Runner said:


> You curmudgeons, you.
> 
> But I admittedly use a LOT of epoxy in my oars...laminated rather than carving them out of a single solid plank. It's stronger than trusting the grain in a single board, it uses less wood, and I'm also able to use harder/heavier, stiffer/stronger, and lighter woods selectively where they make the most sense. That wouldn't happen without glue.


That would be me  

I know all about your oars, owning a set, or don't you remember ? Sweetest rowing oars I've ever rowed. Simply without equal.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

beaversnot said:


> totally agreed- everyone needs a quiver of dories
> 
> These smaller boats- 14-15’8- are really designed to fill a hole on the market. There are awesome options for bigger boats and doryaks, but I haven’t seen much in the middle, which as you say is pretty versatile, a bit lighter, and fun to row!


Strange but true comment on a quiver. Guilty here!! I have 13', 15.5' rafts, and (had) a 14' cat. Now have 10.5' and 16.8' dories and a 14.8' drifter.

But if you had to choose a SINGLE raft for most of what you do from daytrips to overnights to multidays with 2-3 people, most people would go 14'.
And for similar reasoning, if you wanted a SINGLE dory, 14.5-15.5 should be perfect for most people. Smart of you to realize there is a hole in the market.


And strange coincidence, just met an old NW Dories guide last week who designed a 14'-9" (or 15'-9" double ender) back in 1989 or 1990. Friend of mine bought one last fall, and we met the designer this past week. He had the exact same rationale, and has taken his on the Main, Middle, Grand, Snake, Smith, etc...



I really dig the lines of your boat, and the drop rear footwell is a brilliant idea. May need to plagiarize that on a retrofit on my big boat....would be a great secure spot for dogs.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

MNichols said:


> I know all about your oars, owning a set, or don't you remember ? Sweetest rowing oars I've ever rowed. Simply without equal.


I'm just owning up to my "frozen snot" dependence.


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## westwatercuban (May 19, 2021)

MNichols said:


> You know damn well what I'm talking about you smart ass sob. I don't have anything against Meranti, or liquid snot when it's used where it's needed. You know who taught me how to build boats LOL..
> 
> Somebody, and it may even have been you, or john, or Kevin, sent me a link to an article on face crack about some gal that CNC cut a boat out of something very similar to corraplast, was completely and totally neat, came out beautiful, but it wasn't something I would have done, not something I would have bought, and I probably would have rowed it just to see how it handled, just not my thing. It's fine for you LOL just like them beautiful plastic oars that you cast...


Come on Hemp plastics are not detrimental for the environment! Just think about it you could have an eco green boat! Imagine yourself floating down the river in your cloroplast boat knowing you did your part to protect the environment lol


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

MT4Runner said:


> I'm just owning up to my "frozen snot" dependence.


And I've used it as well, where needed, sparingly. I buy it by the quart, you by the 30 gallon drum..


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

Not far off...15gal kits.


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

westwatercuban said:


> Come on Hemp plastics are not detrimental for the environment! Just think about it you could have an eco green boat! Imagine yourself floating down the river in your cloroplast boat knowing you did your part to protect the environment lol


See the thread on electric motors, that's about as far as I'm willing to go LOL


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## Idaho_ski_bum (Jun 22, 2018)

I'd be interested in checking out your plans! I'm hoping to build a dory this summer.


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## jeffro (Oct 13, 2003)

Sounds sweet. Someday I'll build one and this would be a great intro. And now I'll duck out before MNichols squirts me with the hose and yells to get off his lawn!


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## beaversnot (12 mo ago)

MNichols said:


> And me, being more of a trad guy, I'm thinking, cool, but not for me.
> 
> I'd be more interested in things like pre made ribs, hatch frames, and especially a transom and bow post with rolling bevels than a whole "insert tab a into slot b" sort of thing, and I don't think (and yes, I've seen it done) that I'd want a boat made out of corraplast or any of it's similar materials..
> 
> ...


MNichols- I totally hear you. I've spent a lot of time sailing and working on very old, leaky wooden sailboats. Just because the America's Cup is raced in soulless carbon foiling monsters doesn't mean there isn't a place in the world for old, traditionally built wood boats. Same with dories. I'm just trying to offer something different and maybe a bit more accessible. There are great options out there for traditionally built dories- in fact it seems like the vast majority of new builds are being done with framed construction. That form of construction is well suited to hand work- the machinery required for pre-cut rolling bevel bow posts and frames just doesn't make sense to me when compared to hand shaping solid lumber. 

Also, it is at the core still a wood boat, and if anything it is much easier to customize each boat since the design can easily be parametrically altered and pump out a new table of offsets, panel shapes, etc. As a number of Pacific Northwest boat builders (and others) have proven, high quality plywood combined with composites (usually glass and epoxy for dories), can make a surprisingly light, strong, and long-lived boat. The boats built by the Gougeon Brothers are still going strong- this is basically the same technology they developed. 

Anyways, to each their own. I'll still claim pride of ownership though, it's definitely an emotional dilemma whether frozen snot is involved or not. Come on a trip with Wallowa and I'll bet you'll agree that she has a soul.


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## beaversnot (12 mo ago)

Idaho_ski_bum said:


> I'd be interested in checking out your plans! I'm hoping to build a dory this summer.


There are some more renderings and line drawings on timberboat.works

Shoot me a PM or email and I can send over the printed plans that we used for Free Willy (updated to the new plan) and we can go from there. I won't be fully up and running until mid summer, so it may be a bit of a work in progress.


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

beaversnot said:


> MNichols- I totally hear you. I've spent a lot of time sailing and working on very old, leaky wooden sailboats. Just because the America's Cup is raced in soulless carbon foiling monsters doesn't mean there isn't a place in the world for old, traditionally built wood boats. Same with dories. I'm just trying to offer something different and maybe a bit more accessible. There are great options out there for traditionally built dories- in fact it seems like the vast majority of new builds are being done with framed construction. That form of construction is well suited to hand work- the machinery required for pre-cut rolling bevel bow posts and frames just doesn't make sense to me when compared to hand shaping solid lumber.
> 
> Also, it is at the core still a wood boat, and if anything it is much easier to customize each boat since the design can easily be parametrically altered and pump out a new table of offsets, panel shapes, etc. As a number of Pacific Northwest boat builders (and others) have proven, high quality plywood combined with composites (usually glass and epoxy for dories), can make a surprisingly light, strong, and long-lived boat. The boats built by the Gougeon Brothers are still going strong- this is basically the same technology they developed.
> 
> Anyways, to each their own. I'll still claim pride of ownership though, it's definitely an emotional dilemma whether frozen snot is involved or not. Come on a trip with Wallowa and I'll bet you'll agree that she has a soul.


Nice reply, thanks. And as I said, what you are building is way cool and innovative, I'm just an old fart that learned to build boats from Brad Dimock, a lot of what I believe comes from him and his teaching / reasoning. 

Ciao


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## MikeG (Mar 6, 2004)

Beaversnot, I would be very interested in beta testing. I've been considering building a dory for a long time but my woodworking skills are limited- not missing, just limited. I know enough to realize that minor mistakes can be forever headaches. Your CNC cut templates would help alleviate that tension. Seems like it could be a good first boat project. I might want to wait for the double ender. I imagine you can't put a specific number on it yet but what would you ballpark the kit cost to be? It sounds like that would not include glass, resin, or fittings? If that is the case, what would you estimate for the full cost to build?


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## beaversnot (12 mo ago)

MikeG said:


> Beaversnot, I would be very interested in beta testing. I've been considering building a dory for a long time but my woodworking skills are limited- not missing, just limited. I know enough to realize that minor mistakes can be forever headaches. Your CNC cut templates would help alleviate that tension. Seems like it could be a good first boat project. I might want to wait for the double ender. I imagine you can't put a specific number on it yet but what would you ballpark the kit cost to be? It sounds like that would not include glass, resin, or fittings? If that is the case, what would you estimate for the full cost to build?


MikeG- I'll send you a separate note about beta testing, that would be awesome! 

For cost, it's pretty hard to ballpark given the wildly fluctuating costs and availability of wood, resin, glass / everything. There's another great thread on here with costs from past builds that is really good. The first ones we built were all about $3,500-$5,000, but realistically it's more like $5,000-$7,000 today, depending on what material choices you make. That is without a trailer or oars / oarlocks. 

The kit will include plywood panels, building jig and cnc cut measuring tools, milled gunnel stock, bow post, hatch hinges, gutters, gaskets, aluminum oar towers, and a builder's manual. At this point you would be purchasing fiberglass and resin (although there is a list of materials), finishes, latches, and consumables. Depending on what you have, you are building you may also need some basic hand tools and clamps / straps. The hand tool requirement is just small hand saw, a good random orbit sander / vaccum, and possibly a small hand plane and router with a plunge and quarter round bit. 

I would strongly recommend also buying Russel and Ashlyn Brown's book "Epoxy Basics" https://www.amazon.com/Epoxy-Basics...ks&sprefix=russel+brown,stripbooks,255&sr=1-1


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

beaversnot said:


> MikeG- I'll send you a separate note about beta testing, that would be awesome!
> 
> For cost, it's pretty hard to ballpark given the wildly fluctuating costs and availability of wood, resin, glass / everything. There's another great thread on here with costs from past builds that is really good. The first ones we built were all about $3,500-$5,000, but realistically it's more like $5,000-$7,000 today, depending on what material choices you make. That is without a trailer or oars / oarlocks.
> 
> ...


What, no 100+ clamps ? If so, then Highland Woodworking, where bar clamps are ALWAYS on sale !! Can never have enough when it comes chine log and gunnel time..


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## beaversnot (12 mo ago)

MNichols said:


> What, no 100+ clamps ? If so, then Highland Woodworking, where bar clamps are ALWAYS on sale !! Can never have enough when it comes chine log and gunnel time..


There are still a bunch of clamps needed and ratchet straps too, but not nearly as many as for a framed dory build. The place you need the most is for the gunnel. Agreed though- you can never have enough clamps!!! I'm a big fan of the trigger style clamps that can be operated with one hand.


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## westwatercuban (May 19, 2021)

MNichols said:


> What, no 100+ clamps ? If so, then Highland Woodworking, where bar clamps are ALWAYS on sale !! Can never have enough when it comes chine log and gunnel time..


I'm gonna steal them from work lololol


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

MikeG said:


> Beaversnot, I would be very interested in beta testing. I've been considering building a dory for a long time but my woodworking skills are limited- not missing, just limited. I know enough to realize that minor mistakes can be forever headaches. Your CNC cut templates would help alleviate that tension. Seems like it could be a good first boat project. I might want to wait for the double ender. I imagine you can't put a specific number on it yet but what would you ballpark the kit cost to be? It sounds like that would not include glass, resin, or fittings? If that is the case, what would you estimate for the full cost to build?


First, building a boat is not quite as complex as it appears. If you look at the whole project, it seems daunting, but it's just a series of reasonably simple steps.

Honestly, mixing up a gallon or more of epoxy (don't do it all in one batch!) and glassing the bottom is one of the most committed tasks.
The longest part of the process is framing and building decks and hatches.
And you won't get away from either step by buying a kit.

When you get done, you'll realize that forming the hull was big, but one of the easier parts.
But if it's your first boat, it's a daunting step because it's so BIG, especially when you don't know what you don't know, and building from a kit is a good way to get past that hump and on to smaller steps.




beaversnot said:


> For cost, it's pretty hard to ballpark given the wildly fluctuating costs and availability of wood, resin, glass / everything. There's another great thread on here with costs from past builds that is really good. The first ones we built were all about $3,500-$5,000, but realistically it's more like $5,000-$7,000 today, depending on what material choices you make. That is without a trailer or oars / oarlocks.


Materials have gotten stupid. For sure add 30-50% of the costs I posted a year ago. Plywood, hardwoods, glass, epoxy, hardware...have all gone up, and they are probably not coming back down.


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## westwatercuban (May 19, 2021)

MT4Runner said:


> Materials have gotten stupid. For sure add 30-50% of the costs I posted a year ago. Plywood, hardwoods, glass, epoxy, hardware...have all gone up, and they are probably not coming back down.


On top of prices going up you may or may not have issues sourcing specific items that are not made in the US...Covid was the original issue...I sense there may be another issue preventing one to get some products..


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

Glass is made in the US, epoxy is formulated in the US, (doug fir) plywood and hardwood are made in the US. 

Only issue I could potentially see is hinges.


Go back to boatbuilding roots...build with what is locally available. There's no rule that says you must build with meranti or port orford cedar or white ash. Those were the best materials available in their respective regions and we've been spoiled to be able to mix them.


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## beaversnot (12 mo ago)

MT4Runner said:


> Glass is made in the US, epoxy is formulated in the US, (doug fir) plywood and hardwood are made in the US.
> 
> Only issue I could potentially see is hinges.
> 
> ...


MT4Runner, you are spot on in terms of time, materials, etc. In particular, folks shouldn't underestimate the amount of sanding and finishing, and if you don't have on already, budget for a good random orbit sander that you can hook to a vaccum. There are a bunch of budget ways to do this (a harbor freight vaccum and duct tape got me through many boats), or the premium options are Festool and Mirka. Both are spendy but very, very impressive. 

In terms of materials, the costs have gone up local, abroad, everywhere! Wherever possible though, we're as local as we can be. Good marine DF plywood is hard to get, as are the exotics. The solid wood (not plywood) components are easy, my day job is as a forester and we grow, harvest and mill all of the solid wood in these boats in our own forest. I'm also thinking about doing oar kits that will be 100% FSC certified ash and fir from Oregon. That will come after the boat kits.


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

beaversnot said:


> There are still a bunch of clamps needed and ratchet straps too, but not nearly as many as for a framed dory build. The place you need the most is for the gunnel. Agreed though- you can never have enough clamps!!! I'm a big fan of the trigger style clamps that can be operated with one hand.


Highland woodworking!


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## MikeG (Mar 6, 2004)

MT4Runner said:


> Honestly, mixing up a gallon or more of epoxy (don't do it all in one batch!) and glassing the bottom is one of the most committed tasks.
> The longest part of the process is framing and building decks and hatches.
> And you won't get away from either step by buying a kit.


Thanks, I've done some glassing with kayaks so I at least have a sense of what that will look like.


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## MikeG (Mar 6, 2004)

beaversnot said:


> The solid wood (not plywood) components are easy, my day job is as a forester and we grow, harvest and mill all of the solid wood in these boats in our own forest. I'm also thinking about doing oar kits that will be 100% FSC certified ash and fir from Oregon. That will come after the boat kits.


Wow, that's really cool. It also answers my next question as I was curious about shipping vs. picking up materials. Nice to know you are in Oregon- where abouts?


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

MNichols said:


> Highland woodworking!


Someone already mentioned it!



MikeG said:


> Thanks, I've done some glassing with kayaks so I at least have a sense of what that will look like.


Awesome. My first boat project was a Chesapeake 17 back in 1997...then a Guillemot in 1999....and a hybrid Cormorant, and a folder, and a couple skin on frame Greenland-style boats.
A dory is just a huginormous kayak.


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## beaversnot (12 mo ago)

MikeG said:


> Wow, that's really cool. It also answers my next question as I was curious about shipping vs. picking up materials. Nice to know you are in Oregon- where abouts?


Still going to figure out shipping. At this point folks would be able to pickup in Timber, OR (about an hour from Portland). Once up and running we will have a shipping option though- it's basically a single 4x8' pallet and would ship freight. Our price would be FOB.


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## westwatercuban (May 19, 2021)

beaversnot said:


> Still going to figure out shipping. At this point folks would be able to pickup in Timber, OR (about an hour from Portland). Once up and running we will have a shipping option though- it's basically a single 4x8' pallet and would ship freight. Our price would be FOB.


I’m curious if it would be cheaper to sell a cnc router kit to build at home. Shipping is stupid expensive right now for freight. If you designed a simple setup I think you could also sell it to others who may not be in your current market, but would like to have a cnc router at home. Idk just a food for thought. I could be way wrong. You might just put yourself out of the market with the shipping cost is all.


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

westwatercuban said:


> I’m curious if it would be cheaper to sell a cnc router kit to build at home. Shipping is stupid expensive right now for freight. If you designed a simple setup I think you could also sell it to others who may not be in your current market, but would like to have a cnc router at home. Idk just a food for thought. I could be way wrong. You might just put yourself out of the market with the shipping cost is all.


Or sell the vector files that could be used on a commercial machine that's local to the purchaser. Meranti is still spendy, and there's still shipping for that, which runs about the cost of the wood, so there is that..


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## Pinchecharlie (Jul 27, 2017)

Man you guys are making me want a dory again. I tell you from the "not so gifted " tradesman perspective, it's the time that's hard to find. It's easy to find pleasure in all these tasks but it is getting harder and harder for me at least to find shop time more or less a ground up projects worth. I hate to say it but it would be nice (for me) to have a kit. I'll also say it goes against my nature and would I know ultimately piss me off that I bought something I could build but...I might otherwise never do it either?. So for that reason this is good news for some. I will say that I personally really dislike resins. In fact I think they are awful, itchy nasty toxic shite but I also get it. I once helped a friend build a dragster body from scratch and it was awful but so cool too. I dunno I think I like old school best leaky and all. I think we should all have the time to learn to do it from scratch including milling the wood and doing the hard layout thing (what's it called again, where you do the odd numbers and long flexible stick , nails ect..?) I also just last week , shot a damn piece of plastic cutting board (hdp?) Out of my table saw and across the yard through a window and into my house! Yes it was it was dumb but that's how accidents happen! Sad I knew it was coming and was out of the way but after I did it I was pretty ashamed. So what iam saying is it takes some skill and skills take time to develop and so another plus for this? Of course that's half the reason to do a dory project is the process too right? But is it worth a finger or two fir a non tradesman?So a kit would be good like that. I've watched you guys build these and love them and I actually think the lines you take are awesome too so iam a fan but I don't have time unfortunately....sucky I'd love to build a catamaran too and piss off into the sunset but alas I'd cut off my hand probably !


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## beaversnot (12 mo ago)

MNichols said:


> Or sell the vector files that could be used on a commercial machine that's local to the purchaser. Meranti is still spendy, and there's still shipping for that, which runs about the cost of the wood, so there is that..


westwatercuban and MNichols- at this point we'll probably stick with cutting everything in-house, primarily to guarantee the quality of the pieces. Other companies doing kits have taken a similar path (Chesapeake Light Craft, Pygmy, Chase Small Craft, PT Watercraft) since components like the puzzle scarf joints are a bit tricky to cut, even with a big heavy industrial CNC machine. I've contracted a number of projects out to commercial CNC shops and some do a fantastic job, and some don't. If we're selling the product, we want to make sure that the quality is very, very good, and that the kit goes together as easily as possible. 

The kits will be FOB Timber, OR, but folks are also more than welcome to come pick up a kit. It will fit in a standard SUV or pickup, or on a roof rack or trailer. Combine it with floating some NW Oregon coastal rivers! Our shop is just a few minutes from the Nehalem.


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## westwatercuban (May 19, 2021)

Pinchecharlie said:


> Man you guys are making me want a dory again. I tell you from the "not so gifted " tradesman perspective, it's the time that's hard to find. It's easy to find pleasure in all these tasks but it is getting harder and harder for me at least to find shop time more or less a ground up projects worth. I hate to say it but it would be nice (for me) to have a kit. I'll also say it goes against my nature and would I know ultimately piss me off that I bought something I could build but...I might otherwise never do it either?. So for that reason this is good news for some. I will say that I personally really dislike resins. In fact I think they are awful, itchy nasty toxic shite but I also get it. I once helped a friend build a dragster body from scratch and it was awful but so cool too. I dunno I think I like old school best leaky and all. I think we should all have the time to learn to do it from scratch including milling the wood and doing the hard layout thing (what's it called again, where you do the odd numbers and long flexible stick , nails ect..?) I also just last week , shot a damn piece of plastic cutting board (hdp?) Out of my table saw and across the yard through a window and into my house! Yes it was it was dumb but that's how accidents happen! Sad I knew it was coming and was out of the way but after I did it I was pretty ashamed. So what iam saying is it takes some skill and skills take time to develop and so another plus for this? Of course that's half the reason to do a dory project is the process too right? But is it worth a finger or two fir a non tradesman?So a kit would be good like that. I've watched you guys build these and love them and I actually think the lines you take are awesome too so iam a fan but I don't have time unfortunately....sucky I'd love to build a catamaran too and piss off into the sunset but alas I'd cut off my hand probably !


How did the wife take the broken window?


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

Pinchecharlie said:


> Man you guys are making me want a dory again. I tell you from the "not so gifted " tradesman perspective, it's the time that's hard to find. It's easy to find pleasure in all these tasks but it is getting harder and harder for me at least to find shop time more or less a ground up projects worth. I hate to say it but it would be nice (for me) to have a kit. I'll also say it goes against my nature and would I know ultimately piss me off that I bought something I could build but...I might otherwise never do it either?. So for that reason this is good news for some. I will say that I personally really dislike resins. In fact I think they are awful, itchy nasty toxic shite but I also get it. I once helped a friend build a dragster body from scratch and it was awful but so cool too. I dunno I think I like old school best leaky and all. I think we should all have the time to learn to do it from scratch including milling the wood and doing the hard layout thing (what's it called again, where you do the odd numbers and long flexible stick , nails ect..?) I also just last week , shot a damn piece of plastic cutting board (hdp?) Out of my table saw and across the yard through a window and into my house! Yes it was it was dumb but that's how accidents happen! Sad I knew it was coming and was out of the way but after I did it I was pretty ashamed. So what iam saying is it takes some skill and skills take time to develop and so another plus for this? Of course that's half the reason to do a dory project is the process too right? But is it worth a finger or two fir a non tradesman?So a kit would be good like that. I've watched you guys build these and love them and I actually think the lines you take are awesome too so iam a fan but I don't have time unfortunately....sucky I'd love to build a catamaran too and piss off into the sunset but alas I'd cut off my hand probably !


Is called Lofting..


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## Pinchecharlie (Jul 27, 2017)

Yes lofting! She was not very happy about it to be honest and of course it was cold so blah blah. Was trying to make a snowboard rack for my snowmobile lo could just buy one!?! I really love the doeies with frames and all the different angles and the process of making them. I suppose the other problem for the normal guy is you need a pretty physically large work space just to the scarfing nevermind the boat and having separateprojects going. I'd go to a dimock class if he still did one in the west. That would fun!! Iam the poor sod who thinks he can do anything just cause. I have more than a few un finished projects... with more in the planning stage lol!!


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## beaversnot (12 mo ago)

For folks who are interested- I'm still making progress and should have dory kits out the door (fingers crossed) in June. Router in en-route to Oregon, revised plans wrapped up for the 15'8" with a transom (the design that we've built a few of already), and cut-files ready to get post processed for the router. Someone is committed to build the first 15'8" and there's been good interest in the smaller models- if you want to build a "demo" at cost and take heaps of pictures, let me know. I'm deep into writing a builder's manual now and plan to build a small dory to take all the photos. 

I now have a website- it will be refined over the next few months: Timber Boatworks

And an instagram account- @timber_boatworks

and an email list to keep folks updated on availability, pricing, etc: Contact / Signup – Timber Boatworks

Anyways, if you're interested, please don't hesitate to reach out ([email protected])


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## Pinchecharlie (Jul 27, 2017)

Great work man! I think it's really cool! I'll be calling you fir sure! I definitely need a dory! Maybe the divorce will slow tge progress some but that's ok lol!


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## westwatercuban (May 19, 2021)

Pinchecharlie said:


> Great work man! I think it's really cool! I'll be calling you fir sure! I definitely need a dory! Maybe the divorce will slow tge progress some but that's ok lol!


Charlie, once you get one you won’t want to go back! I’ve been on the river twice in the week I’ve owned mine!! Can’t wait to build this one up and build another one, or two, or three..


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## Idaho_ski_bum (Jun 22, 2018)

I'm saving my pennies!


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## duct tape (Aug 25, 2009)

I don’t want to be too much of a downer here, and I applaud everything new and innovative in dories, either design or construction, but I think it’s only fair to make clear to others new to dories that the creation of the hull (sides and bottom) and even the addition of gunwales is only a small step to completion. 

Even if building a frameless, stitch and glue boat, you still have a lot left to do, which really isn’t made clear here nor on your kits link in your web site. Conservatively, for my two builds, I was probably well less than halfway done at that point, assuming a decked boat is the final product. Kind of like when you frame a house - fast and looks great but……

Sorry to be a curmudgeon here. Your ideas look great, similar to a CNC build Kelly Neu did recently. I’m more of a frame boat builder now (don’t like glassing much) and have recently taken a preference to more hand tool over power tool use, so my comments may be out in left field for many here. Good luck with your progress.


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## beaversnot (12 mo ago)

duct tape said:


> I don’t want to be too much of a downer here, and I applaud everything new and innovative in dories, either design or construction, but I think it’s only fair to make clear to others new to dories that the creation of the hull (sides and bottom) and even the addition of gunwales is only a small step to completion.
> 
> Even if building a frameless, stitch and glue boat, you still have a lot left to do, which really isn’t made clear here nor on your kits link in your web site. Conservatively, for my two builds, I was probably well less than halfway done at that point, assuming a decked boat is the final product. Kind of like when you frame a house - fast and looks great but……
> 
> Sorry to be a curmudgeon here. Your ideas look great, similar to a CNC build Kelly Neu did recently. I’m more of a frame boat builder now (don’t like glassing much) and have recently taken a preference to more hand tool over power tool use, so my comments may be out in left field for many here. Good luck with your progress.


Duct tape- 

I completely agree that the hull is not the bulk of the work. In fact, for a boat with nice finishes, building the hull with CNC cut patterns is maybe 25% of the total hours involved (at most). The website is a work in progress - but also it would be pretty hard to overstate the amount of work involved in building any boat. What is notable about a CNC cut kit is that the hull goes together crazy fast (much faster than most other methods)- which can free up some time for finishes, detail, fairing, etc. It's a long way from hand planing frames, etc- but that's not the market that I'm looking at. The only power tool needed for these boats is really a sander- but you need it and will use it a lot- way more than on a framed boat. 

I'm working on the manual now- if it helps, I'm on pg 52 and haven't even started the hull construction steps. 

I'll keep flushing out the website and adding detail, and can hopefully capture some of your comment.


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## beaversnot (12 mo ago)

Hey Dory Folks, 

A quick update on the dories. 3 of the full kits are out the door and the CNC cutting has gone well. I've also made a better website and instagram. Timber Boatworks and Timber Boatworks (@timber_boatworks) • Instagram photos and videos

I'm also getting a batch of printed patterns for the 15'8" dory, and am selling digital patterns. Both come with the builder's manual (print and digital), which I am continuing to add details to. Those are available on the website. 

Finally, there is now a full composites kit with West System resins and additives, and high quality fiberglass. You can also get a RD Baker trailer at a slight discount if you're buying a wood kit and picking it up in Oregon. 

If anyone has questions or thoughts, I'm always happy to discuss. I'm also working on a 16.5' double ender and at least two smaller models. Super excited to build myself one of the smaller boats this winter and start getting more feedback. 

-Ben


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## Water and Wood (5 mo ago)

Nice looking boat kit. You have certainly invested a lot of hours in getting to your current stage. Best of luck with your endeavor.


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