# Middle Fork of the Salmon



## RiverShuttles (May 8, 2015)

I spoke with a gentleman today who had just came off the Middle Fork of the Salmon. There is a river wide log between Jump Off and Goat Creek. They said Kayak runners could get through, but they lost a boat there. Just a heads up! I also heard some Kayakers were going into Boundary Creek Road yesterday and they were taking chains and shovels. Don't know if they got through the summit and the avalanche area. Anyone know?


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## restrac2000 (Mar 6, 2008)

According to the USFS a high clearance truck made it through on Wednesday



> Boundary Creek: the road still had an icy snow floor in places (May 6th photo courtesy of Blackadar Boating), but a high-clearance 4-wheel drive vehicle made it in Wednesday night. The bottom boards of the Boundary Creek boat ramp have been lowered, but the office will not be staffed until May 21st. The water has not been turned on yet. Camps will be first-come, first-served until you pick up your permit at Indian Creek.


Be safe out there!

Phillip


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## screamingeagle (Jun 14, 2011)

*log*

Interesting about the log, I can't help but wonder if the MF will get any higher this year to move it, probably not, river runners will have to probably move it. That's definitely a spot where you would let your guard down, after jump off you have that big slow pool where you would relax after running all the rapids above. Sketchy.


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## restrac2000 (Mar 6, 2008)

Any further word on the log? 

Phillip


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## sbarker (May 2, 2008)

Launching on Thursday. Road is 100% clear. Here is a pic of the log, tight but doable. We are going with gear to cut it out if it is still there. I will post an update as soon as we are off.
Here is a link
Salmon-Challis National Forest - Water Activities .


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## codycleve (Mar 26, 2012)

Just came across this pic of the logs

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## slamkal (Apr 8, 2009)

Easy peasy. See it and go left or right


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## the_dude (May 31, 2006)

slamkal said:


> Easy peasy. See it and go left or right


Not so fast. As the water drops, your options will become fewer.


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## mania (Oct 21, 2003)

Logs and trees are amongst the most dangerous hazards on a river trip even when it looks easy and should never be taken lightly. I'll post an update on this hazard after our trip next week.


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## slamkal (Apr 8, 2009)

the_dude said:


> Not so fast. As the water drops, your options will become fewer.


easy peasy today or if that is what I saw when I came on it. on the left side its resting on that big rock. the right side is probably wedged into the bank. If the "runoff" (do we have such a thing this year) doesn't clear it, it will become more exposed and the likely slower shallower currents arent' going to displace it any more than it already is.

Is that center rock accessable from the left bank? what this wilderness area needs is a good old chainsaw exception where hazards are involved.

how about from the right bank, doing a Z drag to pull the top of the tree out of the bank and sending it all downstream?


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## BoscoBoater (Jul 11, 2006)

slamkal said:


> Is that center rock accessable from the left bank? what this wilderness area needs is a good old chainsaw exception where hazards are involved.


Nah.... we don't need no chainsaws.... Just invite that nice Amish family down the road on your next permit.











Easypeasy


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## screamingeagle (Jun 14, 2011)

*Protocol*

In my eye the Forrest service set a precedent on their involvement with hazards when they cleared the blockage at pistol creek years ago. That they will remove hazards from the wilderness area and they have an obligation to do so because they issue the permits that allow access. However two years ago when that tree was just up from Veil Falls and it killed that woman, they wouldn't remove it. And in fact when an outfitter removed it from the river onto the bank and chained it. The Forrest circus was going to send a river patrol down to remove the chain so that it may flow free. A couple seasons ago when there was a tree across the river at tepee creek, the ranger warned us before launching and they had a river patrol launching as well. I said well at least you'll have it cut out by the time we get there right. He answered well no, we don't have a saw. I responded well surely you have a come along. He said nope we don't have one of those either. I just don't understand why they can't hire some competent folks that can remove these deadly hazards.


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## restrac2000 (Mar 6, 2008)

I am not sure them removing the Pistol blockage has any real "precedence" legality-wise. And how many days worth of launches were there before they decided to act? And I am not certain permitting "access" is the same as permitting safe and efficient passage; I would wager its not considering agencies offer permits for many hazardous and potentially fatal experiences on their resources. 

Maintaining the character of wilderness is definitely not as black and white as it may seem and who knows how they will proceed if these logs don't shift and the water comes down to a level that eliminates natural change. 

There is a potential slippery slope when arguing for removal of natural hazards in wilderness. Its not a certain recourse but it does open the opportunity for stakeholders to push for further reduction of perceived hazards. For the Middle Fork that extend to eventually chain sawing dead snags, or "widow makers", from historically popular camps because of the potential hazard they present. 

Lest we forget....they are only "deadly" hazards because we choose to run rivers (for most of us that includes previous knowledge of). How we mitigate said hazards is part of the wilderness experience. Portaging is a valid option in many cases (this one??) that eliminates the deadly part and puts it solely into the inconvenience category, even if in the royal PITA section. Lining is another option. Mitigation all depends on the variables on the ground which for most of us right now are just speculative. According to one member the run is currently "easy peasy". 

I for one hope they don't alter the feature in any way that involves mechanical devices. If some river runners decide to go at it with the legal tools they have its hard to complain much. That said, its so rare to experience the natural variables of places like the Middle Fork I would hate to see agencies begin to eliminate such risk so soon in its existence. My one and only MF run involved a nasty snag and strainer at Tappan III and it was and remains an essential aspect of the trip and memory. I was frightened and ran a different line than would have been ideal under normal circumstances but that is part of the wilderness experience. 

So it goes; mileage may vary. Only time will tell what happens to this log and then the USFS actions.

Phillip


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## tmacc (Sep 6, 2009)

Phillip,
I believe they do go in and cut hazardous dead trees down at some of the camp. Now, they do use an ax or maybe a bucksaw in keeping with the "no mechanical devices doctrine".

At least, I think it was on the MF that I saw the results. That or the Main. Cause those are the only rivers we go on that have conifer type trees on them. Or could have been the Selway.


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## funrivers (May 14, 2008)

sbarker said:


> Launching on Thursday. Road is 100% clear. Here is a pic of the log, tight but doable. We are going with gear to cut it out if it is still there. I will post an update as soon as we are off.
> Here is a link
> Salmon-Challis National Forest - Water Activities .


Dana, Let's buy Barker a beer if it is gone by the time you get there. I launch on the 31


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## bucketboater (Jul 9, 2012)

slamkal said:


> easy peasy today or if that is what I saw when I came on it. on the left side its resting on that big rock. the right side is probably wedged into the bank. If the "runoff" (do we have such a thing this year) doesn't clear it, it will become more exposed and the likely slower shallower currents arent' going to displace it any more than it already is.
> 
> Is that center rock accessable from the left bank? what this wilderness area needs is a good old chainsaw exception where hazards are involved.
> 
> how about from the right bank, doing a Z drag to pull the top of the tree out of the bank and sending it all downstream?


 Half the people I've come across on the mfs struggle with the river let alone using a chainsaw on a pinned log. Last thing I want to do is deal with some noob in the middle of nowhere with a life threating chainsaw wound.Not sure if you are aware of the forces involved with pinned log but very few people could make the correct cut. Setting a z drag is most likely more dangerous then avoiding the log too. Logs are part of boating, leave it be unless it's totally blocking all passage is my vote. I'll be out there Monday and report back.


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## restrac2000 (Mar 6, 2008)

tmacc said:


> Phillip,
> I believe they do go in and cut hazardous dead trees down at some of the camp. Now, they do use an ax or maybe a bucksaw in keeping with the "no mechanical devices doctrine".
> 
> At least, I think it was on the MF that I saw the results. That or the Main. Cause those are the only rivers we go on that have conifer type trees on them. Or could have been the Selway.


Wasn't aware of that (any of those would be wilderness if I remember correctly). Are you sure it was for campsite and user safety compared to suppressive wildfire efforts? I know a buddy of mine spent time in the wilderness areas (I believe) and other places like the south fork fighting fires about a decade or more ago. Never heard of those types of efforts by USFS for campsite safety, though I could obviously just lack first hand experience or knowledge of such actions.

Thanks for clarifying. It puts their actions if different light if it was preventative for camper safety.

Phillip


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## tmacc (Sep 6, 2009)

All I can say is, the dead trees were down and there were ax chips around the stumps. Could have been a safety conscious private boater......naw.  They were decent size trees, too.


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## bucketboater (Jul 9, 2012)

restrac2000 said:


> Wasn't aware of that (any of those would be wilderness if I remember correctly). Are you sure it was for campsite and user safety compared to suppressive wildfire efforts? I know a buddy of mine spent time in the wilderness areas (I believe) and other places like the south fork fighting fires about a decade or more ago. Never heard of those types of efforts by USFS for campsite safety, though I could obviously just lack first hand experience or knowledge of such actions.
> 
> Thanks for clarifying. It puts their actions if different light if it was preventative for camper safety.
> 
> Phillip


 Several campsites were off the list for hazardous tree removal on my June 5th trip in 2013.


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## Wadeinthewater (Mar 22, 2009)

tmacc said:


> All I can say is, the dead trees were down and there were ax chips around the stumps. Could have been a safety conscious private boater......naw.  They were decent size trees, too.


I believe it was the USFS that fell a dozen or so dead trees at Trail Flat last year. Some other camps also. Sheepeater?


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## sweencat (Dec 26, 2008)

sbarker said:


> Launching on Thursday. Road is 100% clear. Here is a pic of the log, tight but doable. We are going with gear to cut it out if it is still there. I will post an update as soon as we are off.
> Here is a link
> Salmon-Challis National Forest - Water Activities .



The Northwest River Forecast Center is calling for a spike on the Middlefork up to about 5.3 feet around May 18. Might clear the log out.


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## restrac2000 (Mar 6, 2008)

Wadeinthewater said:


> I believe it was the USFS that fell a dozen or so dead trees at Trail Flat last year. Some other camps also. Sheepeater?


My bad for sure then. Seems inconsistent of them to tackle things like widow makers but not strainers. 

Live and learn. Sorry for having such a poorly informed idea in this case and thanks for correcting me.

Phillip


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## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

Widowmakers can fall on people while asleep, probably worse PR for the FS than a river hazard

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## boicatr (Mar 14, 2013)

Can...and have. The fs has a much more active roll (and stake) in managing the campsites vs the natural river conditions, given that camps are delineated and assigned. 

Stupid conversation in my opinion. If you are afraid of logs in the river or on the land then maybe stay home?


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## Whetstone (May 17, 2013)

boicatr said:


> Stupid conversation in my opinion. If you are afraid of logs in the river or on the land then maybe stay home?


HEHEHE   I'm more afraid of Avatards chickens on the river. Lil simonela shitters.


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## ortho11 (Nov 1, 2014)

*log masher*



boicatr said:


> Can...and have. The fs has a much more active roll (and stake) in managing the campsites vs the natural river conditions, given that camps are delineated and assigned.
> 
> Stupid conversation in my opinion. If you are afraid of logs in the river or on the land then maybe stay home?



Not afraid of logs. My cat frame has a log devastator on the front. Chews right through them as a result of superior welding and fabrication.


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## Outlaw (Mar 8, 2010)

Stupid conversation in my opinion. If you are afraid of logs in the river or on the land then maybe stay home?[/QUOTE]

That might be the single dumbest statement I've ever heard! If you're not afraid of logs, you're an idiot.


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## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

Hey Ortho, did you ever connect with Boicatr to shoot the shit??????

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## boicatr (Mar 14, 2013)

"oh no! Log blocking some of the river! Forest Service should cut it out! Cuz this one time at Band Camp they blew up some logs at Pistol and now they are responsible for my safety". 

Stupid fuc&ing conversation. 

This outlaw deals with logs and sometimes just cuts the fuc$ers out himself. 

Ted



Outlaw said:


> Stupid conversation in my opinion. If you are afraid of logs in the river or on the land then maybe stay home?


That might be the single dumbest statement I've ever heard! If you're not afraid of logs, you're an idiot.[/QUOTE]


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## boicatr (Mar 14, 2013)

And they scare the hell out of me


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## swiftwater15 (Feb 23, 2009)

.*

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## swiftwater15 (Feb 23, 2009)

Bump. Updates?


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## carvedog (May 11, 2005)

The logs were still there on the 23rd. Very easy to see and miss. We went right and no one even came close. The biggest challenge was riding the seam of the eddy on river right enough to go downstream. We also had a fierce headwind so I actually pulled into the current heading toward the logs and then pulled back to the eddy after being poised above the logs for what seemed like 10 minutes of being careful. 

It is so green out there right now. Amazing. And we only had rain at night a couple of times and about 20 minutes on the water. Have fun.


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## swiftwater15 (Feb 23, 2009)

Thanks carvedog. 

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## carvedog (May 11, 2005)

swiftwater15 said:


> Thanks carvedog.
> 
> Sent from my HTC One using Mountain Buzz mobile app


My pleasure. I should have posted yesterday but as usual the day after getting home, I could barely move off the couch. 

Have fun.


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## mania (Oct 21, 2003)

Here is a picture from my boat from Saturday. Like carvedog says it was not a problem to go right but could be harder as the water drops.


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## carvedog (May 11, 2005)

mania said:


> Here is a picture from my boat from Saturday. Like carvedog says it was not a problem to go right but could be harder as the water drops.


Great meeting you out there Mania. We sure lucked out. Next spring on Marsh Creek?


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## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

The two big trees at sheepeater are down. It is kind of sad. Camped there last week and there is tons of tall grass, I almost didn't recognize it. 

The log in Jump off is gone.

New log on left between Lake cr and Pistol. That one might get sticky at low flows.

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