# Help with getting started..



## TriBri1 (Nov 15, 2011)

I would recommend starting with rentals. Figure out what you like and what works for your family before jumping into a huge $$$ commitment. Then do lots of day trips. If there is a whitewater club in the area hook up with them and do a few club trips. If not then check out commercial companies and see if they have a guide training that you can jump into and learn to read the water. There are many fine stretches of river that do not require a permit.


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## melted_ice (Feb 4, 2009)

Rent or buy used and do day trips and local overnighters to determine true interest before going for "full" setup and the multiday trips. Dogs are not welcome on many of the permitted stretches .


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## JustKip (Dec 26, 2009)

I'm going to join the other 2 in recommending *renting* to start out. I also agree about taking guide training, unless you're already very proficient...and it seems like you wouldn't be asking in that case (no offense intended).

*IM*(often not so humble)*O*, a single raft isn't enough for 4 people without being part of a group. That way not every boat needs a firepan or groover or kitchen box or cooler. One of each for the group is pretty customary, unless it's a large group. A 14 foot is typically used for 2 people, their gear, and some group gear, but I've seen 3 peeps in a 13 footer more than twice.

And, with all that opinionated "expertise" spouted out, I just got back from a 3 day, ONE boat trip on the Rogue, with a friend...2 people in a 13.5 foot raft with all our gear in 3 drybags, a cooler and 2 rocket boxes. My passenger rides on the cooler and another passenger _might_ fit. I do that often, but it's a very Spartan trip using backpacking gear. For a pair of teenagers I'd recommend more "personal space" in the boat.


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## BoilermakerU (Mar 13, 2009)

I would say 14 footer is bare minimum. With the dog, I'd go with 16 footer.

I disagree that a single boat isn't enough for 4 people and a dog. I have a 14 footer for my wife and two kids (no dog), and I can comfortably get all 4 of us in it along with all the required gear (cooler, kitchen box, firepan, groover, captains boxes, dry bags, water jugs, etc). A 3-4 day trip in my boat for the 4 of us would be zero problem.

However, it is a lot more fun going with more boats and more people! Start with the basics (the boat, frame, etc) and join some others on some trips. Gradually add gear over time. Aside from spreading the investment out over time, you'll get a lot of ideas from those that you are with as to what gear to get.


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## cataraftgirl (Jun 5, 2009)

2 adults, 2 teens, and a large dog on one raft, to me = 16 ft. raft. However, if your teens are the adventurous types, they may be happier in a ducky, rather than on the raft all the time. Do you think your GF might like to ducky or maybe row her own? I'd rent one or two duckies along with a 14-16 ft. raft and see what your family likes. Maybe they'll all take a liking to it, and you could end up with a flotilla.....15 ft. raft, two duckies, and maybe even a small raft for the GF ??? Just a thought.


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## montana_field (Mar 28, 2011)

Ducky for the teenagers is a must. 15-16 raft and maybe even a small cat for GF


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## goldcamp (Aug 9, 2006)

I definately think a 16 footer is going to be most comfortable. Also I don't think you really need to spend 6K at a minimum to get into the sport. My first cooler cost was a 125 coleman extreme I bought at Walmart for $55, dry box from frontierplay.com $275, surplus ammo cans for $15 each, old small grill converted to a fire pan <$25, Walmart toilet seat and wag bags <$25. Either get a used boat or one of the cheaper brands ($1500-3000). Check out rowframe.com for the least expensive frames on the market (Four bay frame and oars for ~$700). A trailer is awesome, but also optional depending on what type of vehicle you have.


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## kazak4x4 (May 25, 2009)

Rent first, then get a full setup from mtnbuzz classifieds for 2-4k. Then once you realize what you want, invest your 6k+ into exactly what you want.

With that family , go with 16 for the first boat. Even with duckies, you will be carrying all kids/dog/wife's crap.... and their gear.


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## cls2nwantingmore (Mar 10, 2013)

*Response to "Help with getting started"*

I would like to thank all of you for the information and I appreciate all the feedback with do' s and don't s and gear information. With a Ducky I am interpreting that you mean a one or two seat inflatable kayak.. I am still up in the air with what brand of raft or even Ducky/inflatable kayak.. I feel drawn to AIRE for their 10 year warranty.. Thank you again this information it has been beyond helpful in planning my summers to come! 
Wes Salley


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## cls2nwantingmore (Mar 10, 2013)

*Thank you*

kazak4x4, 
Thank you for the videos, I just got off the phone with Directv and I just canceled all of my paid TV services and will sufice with loops of your playlist by Alex Korishko lol lol joking. I do appreciate the videos though so thank you for your links on your reply. It puts a nice perspective of what to think of the river in regards of family safety so thank you for taking the time to make the videos. I look forward to more responses to questions. 
Wes


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## JustKip (Dec 26, 2009)

cls2nwantingmore said:


> With a Ducky I am interpreting that you mean a one or two seat inflatable kayak.


Yes. That's right, and those can be rented too. Solo boats might be better for teens, and be aware that the tandems are often called "divorce boats", because of their ability to create conflict over who's fault it is.



cls2nwantingmore said:


> I am still up in the air with what brand of raft or even Ducky/inflatable kayak.. I feel drawn to AIRE for their 10 year warranty.. Thank you again this information it has been beyond helpful in planning my summers to come!
> Wes Salley


There are very few brands I wouldn't own, and those are entirely because of the manufacturing process. DON'T buy *glued* PVC. Other than that, they're pretty much all good, and books have been written on qualities of different material types.
I wouldn't hesitate to buy a good used boat.


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## kazak4x4 (May 25, 2009)

Ducky = inflatable kayak (1 or 2 person). They are fun toys for kids to mess with.

The boat manufacturer is a tough one, especially on the buzz you will get all kinds of responses. The best advice I can give you is do your own research. Call and talk to the manufacturers and ask them why they think their product is better than others. There are way too many choices to consider when you are picking a manufacturer for your dream boat.

Some of the things to consider:

1. Are you going to roll it or store it inflated? (PVC vs Hypalon battle)
2. How close are you to the manufacturer for repairs?
3. Warranty
4. Extra options (d-rings, size of tubes, handles, etc)
5. What rivers are you going to be on mostly? (If you do southern rivers, AIRE will fill up with silt faster than you will blink)

Once you narrow it down on the manufacturer, it will be a lot easier to pick a model of the boat you want.

The manufacturers to consider:

Big boys: AIRE, Maravia, NRS, DRE, SOTAR
Cheaper guys: Rocky Mountain, STAR, Vanguard


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## kazak4x4 (May 25, 2009)

cls2nwantingmore said:


> kazak4x4,
> Thank you for the videos, I just got off the phone with Directv and I just canceled all of my paid TV services and will sufice with loops of your playlist by Alex Korishko lol lol joking. I do appreciate the videos though so thank you for your links on your reply. It puts a nice perspective of what to think of the river in regards of family safety so thank you for taking the time to make the videos. I look forward to more responses to questions.
> Wes


Awesome, glad you enjoyed it! I wish I knew more about making videos, I am a computer nerd by trade, so have 0 artistic side to me.


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## kazak4x4 (May 25, 2009)

JustKip said:


> the tandems are often called "divorce boats", because of their ability to create conflict over who's fault it is.


LOL So true! I love seeing newbie couples in tandems, just got to make sure a good shrink is on the trip and plenty of alcohol to heal the wounds after rapids.


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## kazak4x4 (May 25, 2009)

cls2nwantingmore said:


> kazak4x4,
> what to think of the river in regards of family safety
> Wes


Family rafting IS the best (and cheapest) vacation you will ever take with your family. The memories you will create with your kids will last a life time. Rafting and rafting gear is an investment INTO your family. Since you are buying a family boat, don't short change yourself and get quality, do research, ask silly questions and get everything answered.

Remember, there is no bad weather, there is, however, bad gear! 

I've taken my 6 year old down Yampa at 40 degree weather, we were snowed in and flash flooded. Get the right gear for you and your family, and you can weather through anything and have a great time.


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## CanoePam (Aug 16, 2013)

I am in a similar spot to the OP, though My husband and I are a bit older and have no children at home. We have taken numerous primitive camping trips in the Boundary Waters Canoe Wilderness when we lived in the upper midwest,but We live in Salt Lake City now. I love canoes, but I don't have the time to be a competent whitewater canoeist for multi-day trips. I love the big water and canyons of the West, and it seems like raft is the way to go. I've been on paddle raft day trips, but it looks like an oar rig might be more appropriate for 4-6 day camping trips with 2 people. How do I decide on size and type of raft? What is the advantage or disadvantage of a cat? I am very comfortable in reading rivers up to class III, but how long will it take to be able to put a raft on the right line reliably? After so many years of nimble canoes, I don't have a feel for how long it will take me to learn basic skills.

Can you tell I have lots of questions?


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## JustKip (Dec 26, 2009)

CanoePam said:


> I am in a similar spot to the OP, though My husband and I are a bit older and have no children at home. We have taken numerous primitive camping trips in the Boundary Waters Canoe Wilderness when we lived in the upper midwest,but We live in Salt Lake City now. I love canoes, but I don't have the time to be a competent whitewater canoeist for multi-day trips. I love the big water and canyons of the West, and it seems like raft is the way to go. I've been on paddle raft day trips, but it looks like an oar rig might be more appropriate for 4-6 day camping trips with 2 people. How do I decide on size and type of raft? What is the advantage or disadvantage of a cat? I am very comfortable in reading rivers up to class III, but how long will it take to be able to put a raft on the right line reliably? After so many years of nimble canoes, I don't have a feel for how long it will take me to learn basic skills.
> 
> Can you tell I have lots of questions?


"A bit older"? I'm 57 and I'm sure there are people older than me on the forum. I still load and unload all my gear in a pick-up by my self. I am looking at possibly buying a trailer sometime in the not too distant future.

Oar rig is definitely the way to go for gear hauling.
Advantages; Cat vs. Raft. Cat is more nimble loaded lightly. Also rides over waves that would stop a raft. Raft carries more, LOTS more.

How long to learn? You already read water, so 3-4 days will get you fairly confident. Twice that and you'll feel like a pro.


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## OldandBitter (Jun 11, 2011)

A few gear swaps going on. Downriver Equipment will be having one soon. You can get great deals on used equipment. Keep an eye out.


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## deets440 (May 13, 2012)

Renting is extremely good advice. If you are going self contained your boat size is about 16". If you buy all new you are between a 10 and 15k outlay assuming you buy all new top shelf gear and whether you get a trailer or not. If you do just one or two trips a year it will take 10+ years for any investment to pencil. You need to decide how you often you want to raft and if you have a family that is up for it. Renting for a few years before you decide to dive into the hobby is the best advice I can give you. If you decide that you want to spend a week + a year on the river, then it is time to start thinking about owning gear.


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