# Berthoud Pass guidebook?



## badkins

I could have sworn there was a guide book/bible out there for the Berthoud Pass backcountry but I am striking out googling it... So what is the title and where can I buy it??? Por favor...


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## soylent green

PM Shan on Telemarktips. He seems to have the most info. If you search you may find a thread with all the info too.


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## Killclimbz

There is a book for Front Range spring descents. It covers some stuff on Berthoud pass. Otherwise I don't think there is a guide for the place, and it should be that way. No worries, the pass is easy to figure out. The nice thing about it is you can "discover" what it has to offer as you go on. Hook up with some people at the top of the pass and do a tour with them. I do it all the time. I generally look for the people who are coming avy prepared as they tend to have a better chance of having some bc knowledge than all the bootpacking snowboarders and skiers. 
Now a days I am generally the one giving the tours, still there is a ton of terrain out there. I am looking forward to doing more exploring this year. 8)


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## soylent green

I know that I saw an online guide at one time, I couldn't find it again. It was on one of the Friends of Berthoud Pass type websites.

Hah! Found it.
http://boc123.com/berthoudpass/berthoudpass.cfm


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## Killclimbz

It was Coloradofirstrax or coloradofirsttrax.com. Long since gone. You might be able to find it on some of those web archive pages. Good stuff on there about BUtler Gulch, Wolf Creek, and some other spots. It is a bummer they are gone.


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## soylent green

Everyone really misses Coloradofirstrax! That was a great website.


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## badkins

Damn, I could have sworn someone told me there was a bible for that pass, oh well, I did start to figure out some of the better areas of the pass last year but was hoping there was a comprehensive guide. Jonesin' hard if you can't tell!!!


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## soylent green

badkins here's your guide
http://boc123.com/berthoudpass/berthoudpass.cfm
not a bible, but nice


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## 22West

http://www.avalanchemapping.org/avatlas.htm

Scroll down to the Avalanche Atlas Map of Berthoud Pass.


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## Killclimbz

I also found Coloradofirstrax on the web archives. Good info is there on other backcountry objectives. Enjoy!


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## Vargo

I was wondering if anyone knows who maintained Coloradofirstrax when it was around. I am in the process of putting together an online guide similar and was wondering if I could ask them some questions.


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## Killclimbz

Dave Sauer was the main man behind Coloradofirstrax. You might be able to get a hold of him placing a thread on the Telemarktips forums. He was a big telekook, most of the online types hang out there. It would be very kewl to resurrect this webpage in some form.


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## Vargo

I am in the process of putting it together right now. Hopefully I will have it done by this winter. I will keep everyone posted with updates.


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## Killclimbz

Vargo said:


> I am in the process of putting it together right now. Hopefully I will have it done by this winter. I will keep everyone posted with updates.


F-ing schweet! Looking forward to seeing it.


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## g-pow

Blast from the past ... Just found this thread. And now for some shameless self promotion ... I've been working on an interactive guidebook to Berthoud, and hope to expand it to other areas in CO and beyond. The site is called Grand Lines and you can find it at http://grandlin.es or http://berthoudbackcountrybeta.com. Right now it has ~100 lines around the pass and I'm working on getting images, descriptions, and trip reports for all of the different lines. Hopefully someone finds this useful ... Feel free to report me if this feels too spammy.


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## glenn

Jordan Lipp has wrote a book called "Backcountry Skiing Berthoud Pass" which is good but still leaves a lot to discover on your own.


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## g-pow

Yeah. That is probably the "bible" that was referred to on here. But they did a limited run of printing and it's increasingly hard to come by for anyone that doesn't already have a copy. I'm making a point of not giving away too many details, exploring is half the fun. But mostly want to help people make good decisions about where to ski and stay out of trouble...


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## skipowpow

What's wrong with Backcountry Coalition ?


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## g-pow

Nothing wrong with it, and I think it's an awesome resource in general. If you look at http://berthoudbackcountrybeta.com I think that type of map interface is super helpful for an area like Berthoud where there are tons of different lines. Without knowing what's what it can be difficult to orient yourself based just on text descriptions, even for people who know the area well. For example I would have a pretty hard time describing to someone, even someone who has a basic knowledge of the pass, how to get to and ski Nelson's and Sam's without showing them pictures or maps. This is definitely more of a niche thing than Backcountry Coalition even if I expand to other areas I'd like to keep it more of an interactive guidebook concept where if you're looking for beta for a particular area you can count on getting everything you would need for that area in one place. To me it seems like a pretty different approach, to other people it may seem redundant.


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## glenn

... Berthoud isn't that hard. Drive up the pass and take pictures everywhere you can. Hike 10 min up each side from the top of the pass and take pictures. Compare your pictures to maps and satellite images. Start picking off lines. Rinse and repeat from each new perspective. Don't ski on other people and be aware of others who would ski on top of you.


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## foreverhard

I read g-pow's reasons for wanting to share his knowledge of Berthoud Pass, but I have to take exception. I don't know who g-pow is because they didn't list their name. But I do know that this world is overpopulated; and once a line has been skied, it is ruined for everyone else until it dumps again. It's not like kayaking where everyone gets fresh water. And it never dumps anymore. And everybody that I can think of who got fucked up on Berthoud knew the area and still made a mistake (no judgements intended with that blanket statement, as I've made mistakes over the years).

I always tell people that if they want to ski something I've skied, then I'll happily show them where it is, and that will be when I ski it again with them when conditions are right. But I wont tell them where it is without me being there. They can figure it out for themselves just like I did (or someone did that I was with) if they can't wait for me, but why would I invite other people to ruin the lines that I might want to ski? Can I please convince you that this be your new m.o.?

I don't understand the "come and crowd-out the reason why skiing Berthoud was good in the first place" reasoning. I'm just putting it out there that there's a reason why some people climb snowy hills in the winter, even if it's just around Berthoud Pass, and that reason is the exact opposite of wanting to see crowds (or anyone else at all really) skiing the same lines.

What do you really get out of this, g-pow? I don't believe in altruism.


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## moxie

I applaud g-pow's sharing. There are places you can go to ski alone, but Berthoud Pass isn't (and hasn't been for some time) one of them. On that note, follow glenn's advice and don't ski above others and watch for others that would ski above you.


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## glenn

moxie said:


> I applaud g-pow's sharing. There are places you can go to ski alone, but Berthoud Pass isn't (and hasn't been for some time) one of them. On that note, follow glenn's advice and don't ski above others and watch for others that would ski above you.


It was my experience while I lived in WP that the stuff in the guide book and to a lesser degree the obvious stuff right next to the road would get tracked and/or be occupied while much of the less obvious stuff/things not in the guidebook got very very little traffic. Lots of good easily attainable stuff as long as you didn't need someone holding your... which is why you're in the BC in the first place right?


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## moxie

Shh... don't let out the secret!


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## Jill_BCo

*the berthoud pass ski descents author is jordan lipp*

google on jordan lipp; he was a patroller at berthoud pass when it was lift operated and then went back country after it closed. He lives in Denver so you may be able to contact him directly if you can't find the book for sale online. I think Bent Gate may have it.


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## chepora

I have a copy of the book, it's outta print now but the guidebook is sweet. 
It shows most of the major lines, gives avy info, and aspect/time of year info for skiing most stuff on the pass. PM me and I can help you out with getting info from the guide.


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## twmartin

Lipp is an attorney at Davis Graham & Stubbs in Denver. I met him a number of years ago and he was a decent guy. You could try contacting him there.


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## purpleyak

foreverhard said:


> I read g-pow's reasons for wanting to share his knowledge of Berthoud Pass, but I have to take exception. I don't know who g-pow is because they didn't list their name. But I do know that this world is overpopulated; and once a line has been skied, it is ruined for everyone else until it dumps again. It's not like kayaking where everyone gets fresh water. And it never dumps anymore. And everybody that I can think of who got fucked up on Berthoud knew the area and still made a mistake (no judgements intended with that blanket statement, as I've made mistakes over the years).
> 
> I always tell people that if they want to ski something I've skied, then I'll happily show them where it is, and that will be when I ski it again with them when conditions are right. But I wont tell them where it is without me being there. They can figure it out for themselves just like I did (or someone did that I was with) if they can't wait for me, but why would I invite other people to ruin the lines that I might want to ski? Can I please convince you that this be your new m.o.?
> 
> I don't understand the "come and crowd-out the reason why skiing Berthoud was good in the first place" reasoning. I'm just putting it out there that there's a reason why some people climb snowy hills in the winter, even if it's just around Berthoud Pass, and that reason is the exact opposite of wanting to see crowds (or anyone else at all really) skiing the same lines.
> 
> What do you really get out of this, g-pow? I don't believe in altruism.


This is great......next your task should be convincing all the riders that ski loveland pass to not tell anyone and continue with the notion that you know all the sweet lines but you'll only show them to people if you are there....

If you are looking for the outdoor experience where you are on your own, stop skiing in areas that are crowded by nature and ease of access and let the others share their knowledge in efforts of safety and companionship....

The world may be overpopulated but is that a reason for exclusivity? share the wealth and help others find their way, same as you did once....

Not a believer in altruism? Find somewhere else to build your ego strength and let people share their skills/knowledge by helping to educate others....

My two cents....


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