# Kokatat GMER vs GFER?



## kazak4x4 (May 25, 2009)

I am a rafter, not a kayaker. Should I wait for GFER to go on sale, or would I be happy enough with GMER? What are the main differences between the two?

Thanks,
Alex


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## mania (Oct 21, 2003)

I think the only difference of importance is the skirt flap. Are you sure you won't kayak or even sea kayak? if not gfer is fine and might be a little cheaper.


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## kazak4x4 (May 25, 2009)

NRS has GMER today for 20% off. I was going to wait for REI's 20% off coupon in spring, but if I can pick up a dry suit now, I was going to go for it. Does the skirt flap get in a way at all if you are not using kayak skirt?

I never kayaked, or sea kayaked... but you never know. Good point mania.


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## rwhyman (May 23, 2005)

For rafting, get the Supernova Paddling suit. It has booties, relief zipper and a more comfortable neck closure. Yes, I have one and no, water in the neck is not a problem. I wore it for one of Steve C's SWR courses and was in the water a lot.


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## kazak4x4 (May 25, 2009)

Well thanks... now I am more confused 

What's the difference between GFER/GMER and Supernova? Is it the fabric? GFER/GMER have socks and relief zippers.


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## rwhyman (May 23, 2005)

Breathable Tropos fabric vs. high-end Gore-Tex. And the neck closure. And the cost.


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## mania (Oct 21, 2003)

I primarily raft and have the GMER. the skirt flap does not get in the way. if you are doing a lot of really hard or cold whitewater you probably want the real drysuit with latex neck gasket and not the supernova which has only the neoprene neck gasket (more comfortable but a little water can get in especially if you swim or roll).


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## kazak4x4 (May 25, 2009)

A follow up question, do you get the size according to what clothes you wear, or do I want to get a size larger? If I am medium according to all size charts and Kokatat chart, should I get a medium dry suit or go large?

Sorry, never owned one, so no clue on this....


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## rwhyman (May 23, 2005)

Medium


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## [email protected] (Apr 26, 2006)

Depends on how big you are, I am 5f 11in and 170 lbs and I have the large and love it. you have to consider that when you use a drysuit it is going to be cold so your going to have some layers on.
Go with the kokatat over the NRS, imo NRS gear is not in the same balpark as kokatat stuff.


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## kazak4x4 (May 25, 2009)

Well just purchased SuperNova medium for me and Large for my wife, she gets way cold.

Tom at Clavey told me I can return it if it's a wrong size. TJ, I am your size (5'10" 165lbs), so maybe I should go for Large. But I do hate lose clothes, I really like the stuff tight on me.

BTW for the help guys, Buzzers always come through on decision making


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## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

I recommend you make sure to try it on with a LOT of clothing (at least 1 layer fleece, 2 LJ's, maybe even more) underneath before you decide it's the right size. And get down on your butt, do a bunch of scrunches and twists and flail your arms around. Basically check out that you have complete freedom of movement, with a bunch of fleece on underneath. I hate the way my drysuit looks, but you know, function is fashion, it's got to work or you've wasted a wad of money. When I was shopping, everyone I consulted with told me to go BIG. And I am glad for that. Swimming sucks enough, I am glad my drysuit isn't restrictive at all. And FWIW, I LOVE my neoprene gaskets (no latex, suit by OS), and have had the pleasure of testing them in a few beat-down swims.


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## cataraftgirl (Jun 5, 2009)

Let me know what you think of your Supernova and the sizing when you get it. I'm thinking og getting one myself. Did you get relief zips / drop seat ?
KJ




kazak4x4 said:


> Well just purchased SuperNova medium for me and Large for my wife, she gets way cold.
> 
> Tom at Clavey told me I can return it if it's a wrong size. TJ, I am your size (5'10" 165lbs), so maybe I should go for Large. But I do hate lose clothes, I really like the stuff tight on me.
> 
> BTW for the help guys, Buzzers always come through on decision making


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## kazak4x4 (May 25, 2009)

I just got the supernova yesterday. It fits perfect, I am glad I went with the Medium. My wife got Large, thinking she'd need more clothes under it, but it seems too big, I think we will send hers back. She is about 5'8" 130 lbs. I am 5'10" 167 lbs and the Medium fits very nice and I have plenty of space for polyester lining.

I am very impressed with the neck gasket. It's very tight but comfy, I can see how latex would be annoying over a long period of time. You definitely want nice river boots to go with the dry suit, it's would be easy to puncture the attached booties on something sharp.

I pumped a bunch of air into the dry suit and zipped up, it was holding the air for a long time. If air has a hard time escaping, obviously the water will stay out. 

This is my first dry suit, so I don't have as much experience as others, but so far I am impressed. The relief/drop door is perfect! My wife is sure happy.


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## cataraftgirl (Jun 5, 2009)

lhowemt said:


> I recommend you make sure to try it on with a LOT of clothing (at least 1 layer fleece, 2 LJ's, maybe even more) underneath before you decide it's the right size. And get down on your butt, do a bunch of scrunches and twists and flail your arms around. Basically check out that you have complete freedom of movement, with a bunch of fleece on underneath. I hate the way my drysuit looks, but you know, function is fashion, it's got to work or you've wasted a wad of money. When I was shopping, everyone I consulted with told me to go BIG. And I am glad for that. Swimming sucks enough, I am glad my drysuit isn't restrictive at all. And FWIW, I LOVE my neoprene gaskets (no latex, suit by OS), and have had the pleasure of testing them in a few beat-down swims.


Which OS suit do you have? What was the price? Is it breathable? Relief zip / drop seat?
Thanks
KJ


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## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

cataraftgirl said:


> Which OS suit do you have? What was the price? Is it breathable? Relief zip / drop seat?
> Thanks
> KJ


Very good questions, however I don't recall offhand the specifics, but I'll try. I did a sort of "build your own". I started with the surface/ spirit back entry economy, because I wanted the rear shoulder zipper and no internal suspenders, that zipper allowed me to do an external belt whereas the front zip wouldn't have. It is breathable. I also did the full custom sizing deal, which added a pretty penny ($250 pre-discount or so). I think I paid a bit more for the neoprene gaskets, but not much. I also added some pockets, relief zip and reflective piping. I wouldn't bother forking out the cash again for the relief zip, I don't use it even with one of those little gee-whiz things. It was looking like it was going to cost a ton, then they offered a 30% or so discount as long as I was a member of any "water" organization, and they accepted my membership with AW. I think it came in around $850 all told.


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## jmcdannel (Apr 22, 2009)

kazak4x4 said:


> ...I pumped a bunch of air into the dry suit and zipped up, it was holding the air for a long time. ...


Photo please.


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## cataraftgirl (Jun 5, 2009)

Got my Kokatat Super Nova suit today. Fits great, even with thick fleece. I took lhowemt's advice and did some yoga poses in the suit to make sure I had freedom of movement. I like the neoprene neck. Don't think I could have tolerated latex around my neck all day. What footwear do you folks suggest over the fabric booties?
Ready for some spring river adventures !!!!!!
KJ


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## rwhyman (May 23, 2005)

I wear NRS Attack shoes/Booties when I wear my Supernova.


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## dipper (Dec 10, 2011)

Man you guys have got me questioning myself, i was just about to buy a GFER but the idea of a neoprene neck gasket has me wondering, do they actually keep water out?

Ihowemt, you say you've tested the OS's neck neoprene, has anyone swam with Kokatat's neck neoprene gasket?

The idea of being on the river in January warm and comfortable seem too good to be true, if i get a neoprene neck gasket, will i constantly worry about swimming in the first 1/2 of the trip? I'm a class III / IV- paddler


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## kazak4x4 (May 25, 2009)

I swam Yampa in 35 degree water, swam WW through surprise rapid and swam on Deso through some minor rapids. The gasket definitely holds the water out. I was a bit wet on the inside, but I think it was all from sweat and condensation due to a flip and hard swimming.

On Yampa, I even threw my 8 year old in the water in that dry suit (Kokatat for kids) and he was fine.

So the gasket works, but if you are kayaking, you might be better off with a rubber.

One more thing about neoprene gasket, if you haven't shaved for a couple of days you might get a little rashy. I got minor irritation on the last day of 5 day trip once.


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## dipper (Dec 10, 2011)

man that is seriously tempting, the latex neck gasket on my old drysuit was the only thing about it that i didnt like, felt like my head was going to pop every time i bent down.


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## kazak4x4 (May 25, 2009)

Get it from an outfitter who will accept a return if you don't like it. I ordered it from CKS and the guys were awesome to work with. Gave me a deal and accepted a color exchange for my wife's dry suit. I know casscades has them as well and great to work with.

Buy it, wear it, climb in a bath tub and see how good it is!


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## nicho (Mar 18, 2009)

I talked to kayak academy a few weeks ago and they will send out a drysuit for you to try before you buy one, pretty cool.


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## cataraftgirl (Jun 5, 2009)

Big thumbs up for Kayak Academy. They rock. Good folks with a ton of knowledge about dry suits. One thing they offer....if you rent a dry suit from them, you get a $150 credit towards the purchase of a new dry suit within that year. I think a 30 day rental runs about $275, with a $200 damage deposit. They define a damaged return dry suit as....more than three holes, and more than two torn gaskets. Check out their website.
KJ


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## dipper (Dec 10, 2011)

thanks nicho and KJ, i talked with the academy a couple days ago, they told me about their rental deal, seems like a great idea


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## stubby (Oct 13, 2003)

Used GMER at geartrade.com $225, needs gaskets - $80 at Kokatat....sounds like a good deal to me.


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