# Salt River Apr 24th '08



## ritatheraft (May 22, 2007)

Hello, I pulled a permit for apr 24 this year. I know that the Salt has tendancy to lose its momentum but are there any thoughts about this... smart to plan and cross fingers... or is the risk of rock dodging/ dragging ridiculous? any beta would be appreciated- thanks


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## storm11 (Feb 10, 2006)

We ran it last year first week of March when it was an average flow of 280 cfs. We had to put on at Gleason Flats and skip the upper 20 miles as well as line the rafts through Blackrock. (we had a fully loaded 16 footer as well as one 15 and a couple 14s) There was definitely a bit of pushing over a few gravel bars, but aside from that it was an awesome trip. I think minimum for the upper 20 miles is probably about 750-800 and you could run Blackrock as low as about 650 or so. But it's an awesome trip, so go!

(I just scored a March 28th launch as well...stoked!)


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## kingofzulu (Aug 29, 2007)

rita the raft sounds like a hot boat. i wonder if ill be able to catch a ride on her one day....again. drunk times thursday. you in?


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## TakemetotheRiver (Oct 4, 2007)

That is pretty late in the season, but the permitted season goes through May 15th, so with a good water year like we're having you'll probably be fine- hard to tell with the Salt. Check out this table and you'll see the flow is extremely variable.
When did you get your notice BTW? I applied but haven't heard yet- I'm dying to know! 



ritatheraft said:


> Hello, I pulled a permit for apr 24 this year. I know that the Salt has tendancy to lose its momentum but are there any thoughts about this... smart to plan and cross fingers... or is the risk of rock dodging/ dragging ridiculous? any beta would be appreciated- thanks


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## ritatheraft (May 22, 2007)

you bastard. Rita is not some rubber town "bicycle" you know.


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## ritatheraft (May 22, 2007)

Take Me to the... I got my permit in the mail the 18th... I didn't get my first 2 choices and wonder if the april 24 got transformed from april 04... either way, it is a good option to have. I noticed the chart in my earlier research. Have you run it before?


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## storm11 (Feb 10, 2006)

Keep and eye on this graph once you get closer to your launch date. Pretty accurate flow predictions.

Advanced Hydrologic Prediction Service: Phoenix: Salt River near Chrysotile -Salt River Canyon


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## TakemetotheRiver (Oct 4, 2007)

I haven't run it yet, but I've been waiting for this one all winter, so I've done tons of research. I hope the delay doesn't mean I didn't pull a permit.  



ritatheraft said:


> Take Me to the... I got my permit in the mail the 18th... I didn't get my first 2 choices and wonder if the april 24 got transformed from april 04... either way, it is a good option to have. I noticed the chart in my earlier research. Have you run it before?


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## ritatheraft (May 22, 2007)

I don't know, I wish you luck though. What are some of your research findings, if you don't mind? I am more than happy to keep you in the loop for this trip, if you would be interested. You can take King of Zulu's spot. hahaha.


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## ecjohnson (Nov 6, 2007)

TakemetotheRiver said:


> I hope the delay doesn't mean I didn't pull a permit.


Now that I know people have pulled permits, I am hoping the same thing! Johnny... did you pull one?


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## TakemetotheRiver (Oct 4, 2007)

Most of my research has been word of mouth and stories and books, but here are a few sites from an esteemed colleague and fellow river rat:

http://www.americanwhitewater.org/content/River/view/ Great!


http://www.eddyflower.com/ Awesome picture of the Salt


http://southwestpaddler.com/index3.html Sometimes this site will not pull up. Good descriptions of rapids

http://www.whitewatercampsites.com/ Awesome! Just found it. Good pics!

http://www.allaboutrivers.com/us_rivers/map_of_us_rivers-US.html Good for logistics & some pics.

Also just found out that we pulled at least one! Thanks for the offer BTW, but I have to go over my Spring Break which is late March. 

SYOTR -Kjirsten



ritatheraft said:


> I don't know, I wish you luck though. What are some of your research findings, if you don't mind? I am more than happy to keep you in the loop for this trip, if you would be interested. You can take King of Zulu's spot. hahaha.


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## TakemetotheRiver (Oct 4, 2007)

I also have a 7 page document on rapid beta from the same friend, but I'm not sure what the best format for posting it would be. Could email it probably easier.

The same friend shared this story with me this morning. Sorry, Brian, too funny to not share- and shows how far we'll go...

"It’s killing me too. It was way complicated for me to even get a permit app. turned in by the 15th. I found out on the 14th that the apps. were due on the 15th and that they must be received, NOT post marked. 

SOOOOOO, I filled out the application and faxed it to the office but they wouldn’t accept a debit card. I then called my buddy in Phoenix that put me in touch with his brother who put me in touch with his friend from Mexico that lives in Safford, AZ. I talked this college kid into driving my $10 fee to Globe in exchange for some future beer money. Anyways, I hope that the office received everything okay, knowing my luck, my paperwork is still pile of faxed junk."


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## JBL (Jun 7, 2006)

I've ridden Rita...several times. She's a hottie for sure.


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## jenneral (Aug 28, 2006)

*Given the heismein trophy*

I've had permits for the last four years and gotten the heismein each year. Last year canned two days before our April 4 date with no water. Good luck to all and if you have an extra spot, pm me.


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## ritatheraft (May 22, 2007)

Thanks for all the help... or lack there of... zulu... jbl...hope to see you guys soon. anytime.


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## COUNT (Jul 5, 2005)

Contact Oarboatman (Jake) on here for a bitchin' bound topo guide with rapids, campsites and landmarks. Very high quality.

COUNT


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## storm11 (Feb 10, 2006)

Might want to read the date on that article... Snotel has the upper Salt River basin at 132%

ftp://ftp.wcc.nrcs.usda.gov/data/snow/update/az.txt


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## UserName (Sep 7, 2007)

oops!, post removed...


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## willieWAO (Jun 14, 2005)

Make sure you talk to the indians and get your permit legit-ified, OR you may find every car at the take-out broken into, and if your lucky get a car or two stolen, no more no less....

Sorry, had an excellent trip 'bout 4 years ago, but everything that is post script DID IN FACT happen at the takeout.....

I.E. dont keep ANYTHING worth ANY sort of value in your car at the 
takeout! 

kinda lost my stoke on the salt


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## ritatheraft (May 22, 2007)

Gross. That sucks- point taken and will heed advice if trip is a go. It is, unfortunately, not the first sliver of salt info that has been negative... but the good with the bad, I suppose.


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## maine boater (Dec 22, 2007)

i have been guiding down on the salt since 01. here are three things that will make your trip a little easier.

1. Don't worry about the water. 
the salts flows are way unpredictable. don't even look at the level until about a week before your trip. anything over 500 put in at first camp, below that i would start at second camp or hodoo. the river narrows after gleason flats but its a four-wheel drive adventure to get there.

2. Buy your permit from the Apaches as soon as you arrive.
the store at the bottom of the canyon is closed. last year they had a self issuing permit box down there, use it. you will have to buy a two day boating permit for everyone in your group $30 each. the apache rangers roll down to first camp every morning and check private boaters permits. they are very cool and will not mess with you about anything, as long if you have permits. if not, good luck.

3. Use one of the outfitters down there to run your shuttle.
there has been a ton of break-ins at the 288 bridge, its not the Apaches but meth-heads that live in a trailer park about two miles past the bridge. we don't take your cars there until the day of your take-out, so they don't sit overnight. 

one last thought, april 24 is going to be hot, like 100, be sure to bring lots of adult beverages. 
good luck,i hope this helps.


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## TakemetotheRiver (Oct 4, 2007)

Great information and thanks for countering the earlier position that the "indians" break into the vehicles. Just to clarify- the Apache Wilderness permit is $30 total, not $30 per person, right?



maine boater said:


> i have been guiding down on the salt since 01. here are three things that will make your trip a little easier.
> 
> 1. Don't worry about the water.
> the salts flows are way unpredictable. don't even look at the level until about a week before your trip. anything over 500 put in at first camp, below that i would start at second camp or hodoo. the river narrows after gleason flats but its a four-wheel drive adventure to get there.
> ...


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## EZ (Feb 10, 2004)

*Do Not Mess Around with the Indians*

The Apache permit is per person per day while on Indian land. Remember that you will need 2-3 days to get to Gleason Flats and you will need permits for all those days, including the night before launch if you camp at First Camp (The Put In). 

It seems like a lot for the Apache Permits, but do not try to skimp on this because the Indian Rangers will not cut you any slack and they are the law down there. Absolutely do not mess around with them.


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## TakemetotheRiver (Oct 4, 2007)

I don't really believe in poaching, so just to be sure- $30 per person per day for at least two days? I don't usually carry a lot of cash on trips so I want to be sure we're ready. Thanks



EZ said:


> The Apache permit is per person per day while on Indian land. Remember that you will need 2-3 days to get to Gleason Flats and you will need permits for all those days, including the night before launch if you camp at First Camp (The Put In).
> 
> It seems like a lot for the Apache Permits, but do not try to skimp on this because the Indian Rangers will not cut you any slack and they are the law down there. Absolutely do not mess around with them.


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## CWorthy (Jun 22, 2005)

No, it's $15 per person per day, but you need to get 20 miles downstream to get off the Indian land, so plan on two days (these days occur BEFORE your official launch date). Four years ago, we had a boat wrap at mile 2.3 and had to haul 17 miles the next day to stay within our 2 day permit . 

Last year, we were lucky to hit it just right for flow due to rain, but we still had our share of pulling the boats off rocks the first two days, so plan on at least two days on the Indian land.

The Salt is a blast - 29 rapids in the first 42 miles, so it definitely keeps you on your toes! I'd recommend waiting 'til camp to enjoy multiple adult beverages and mainly, run everything right 

Have fun!


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## ecjohnson (Nov 6, 2007)

CWorthy said:


> I'd recommend waiting 'til camp to enjoy multiple adult beverages


That's just about the silliest thing I've ever heard.


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## TakemetotheRiver (Oct 4, 2007)

The best thing about multi day river trips is that we get both days of drunken flat water and at least one day of sober and _sobering_ kick ass rapids.



ecjohnson said:


> That's just about the silliest thing I've ever heard.


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## ecjohnson (Nov 6, 2007)

TakemetotheRiver said:


> The best thing about multi day river trips is that we get both days of drunken flat water and at least one day of sober and _sobering_ kick ass rapids.


Isn't that true... then you get the guy that wakes up at Spanish Bottom and instead of curing his hangover from the flatwater with water; He cures it with beer, whiskey, and more beer... then proceeds to run all the rapids in Cat totally housed. But we didn't flip a single boat that trip.


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## benpetri (Jul 2, 2004)

CWorthy said:


> No, it's $15 per person per day, but you need to get 20 miles downstream to get off the Indian land, so plan on two days (these days occur BEFORE your official launch date). Four years ago, we had a boat wrap at mile 2.3 and had to haul 17 miles the next day to stay within our 2 day permit .
> 
> Last year, we were lucky to hit it just right for flow due to rain, but we still had our share of pulling the boats off rocks the first two days, so plan on at least two days on the Indian land.
> 
> ...


No kidding! If its low water you'd better be paying close attention that first day or you'll get hosed. I ran it last year with about 400 cfs and rising and didn't know to stay RIGHT at the rapid known as "Overboard" (as in 6 inches from the right bank starting 100 yards above the rapid). This rapid did not send me overboard. As a matter of fact, it didn't send me anywhere at all. No grinding a raft over that cobble bar at 400, not even with a z-drag. Ended up completely derigging.

The funny part of it was there wasn't anything in the "middle" of the river that I could tie up to while we reloaded the boat on the other side, so one of my buddies decided he'd just hold it. That was fine with an empty boat but as I loaded it up in the current, it got harder and harder to hold. The urgency of the situation sunk in, and not wanting to leave my gear in the middle of the river, I just started throwing heavy shit into the boat faster and faster. Right as I got the last of it in, I jumped in and it was too much, and my buddy did a face plant into the river holding on. Hilarious!


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## storm11 (Feb 10, 2006)

Hey Maine Boater,
Which outfitters run shuttles?
Have never had my car broken into, but then again I really haven't ever done it at "peak season". Did seem like a sketchy take-out spot though and have encountered the methed-out sketchballs hanging around the bushes while deriging.


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## storm11 (Feb 10, 2006)

Never mind... found some info from Canyons and Coastlines.com

Upper Salt River

The Rock House Store ~ 1 mile from the take-out will store your vehicle on their property, and have been helping paddlers with shuttles for 20 plus years!
(928) 467-2484 TJ Tanner
[email protected] 

June Barton will also deliver your vehicle to the takeout the day you get off the river. Many NAZpaddlers recommend her...says she's a GREAT gal!
June Barton and her son 
928-467-2367 

Mike Hanaberger 480-983-9162 
Salt River Bridge to Bridge.
Flexible on Arrangements 

Ed Lewis 928-425-5112

Rick Johnson 928-425-7573 

Dennis Stevenson 928-425-3352

Tim Wheeler 928-467-2688


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## floaty22 (Dec 3, 2003)

Ethan, need your #. I got a march fourth too. Looks like we'll be havin'a huge floatilla through horseshoe bend. You guys are bringing costumes right? Nasty!


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## ecjohnson (Nov 6, 2007)

Hell yeah... river flare is a requirement. 

970.846.2468
or
970.375.2710 (my cell doesn't work in the boonies). 

E



floaty22 said:


> Ethan, need your #. I got a march fourth too. Looks like we'll be havin'a huge floatilla through horseshoe bend. You guys are bringing costumes right? Nasty!


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## pasta (May 17, 2006)

*salt last year.*

We ran it last year in mid march. 900cfs at the ramp. four rock draggin days latter the water came up. to 2000cfs lucky us. we floated right through everything pretty easy. we were all in 14 footers and duckies. In my opinion 15' boats might have a bit of trouble in a few spots, especialy that hard right at the top of Quartzite falls. And anything under 2000cfs you have to take the drop at Rat Trap. or pull your boats over the cascade to the right.
If you were watching the flows this month did you notice the January run-off @10,000cfs ? I thnk there will be some water there this year but when and how long are the age old question.
If there is anything else I can tell ya'll just ask.


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## ecjohnson (Nov 6, 2007)

The email doesn't work... it got returned as undeliverable. I am going to call tomorrow to see what the deal is for my trip. I also saw, on the Salt River Rafting website... (where it tells about how sketchy the take-out is and that you should shell out $195 for the first car and $125 for each addtional car) that the store at the bottom of the canyon is closed this year (no year mentioned and I don't know if the site has been updated), and that we need to get camping permits elsewhere. Is this true, or did this already happen?



storm11 said:


> Never mind... found some info from Canyons and Coastlines.com
> 
> Upper Salt River
> 
> ...


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## storm11 (Feb 10, 2006)

I think it's been closed for a while now. I remember reading about a self-pay permit box somewhere at the put-in, but I don't know for sure.


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## floaty22 (Dec 3, 2003)

Hey, if the self-pay isn't up you have to go to the one gas station between show low and the salt river bridge (put-in). It's about a twenty-five minute drive and everyone has to buy there own individual permit and sign for it. Cash only. I think wilderness aware was allowed to sell permits at the put-in though. See you there. Juanny


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## floaty22 (Dec 3, 2003)

Matt, hope you went skiing. My phone is F'ed. Can only recieve. I bought a new one and should be here tues.


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## floaty22 (Dec 3, 2003)

Check this out.

SALT - ROOSEVELT, NR (SLRA3)

Projected 27,000 tomorrow. Probably will get to 35. Later


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## ecjohnson (Nov 6, 2007)

That's slightly annoying. Good to know before I show up with a wad of cash expecting to pay for everyone. 



floaty22 said:


> Hey, if the self-pay isn't up you have to go to the one gas station between show low and the salt river bridge (put-in). It's about a twenty-five minute drive and everyone has to buy there own individual permit and sign for it. Cash only. I think wilderness aware was allowed to sell permits at the put-in though. See you there. Juanny


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## floaty22 (Dec 3, 2003)

51000 and projected to 74 7:30 am. probrbly will get to 90? 110000? whose ready to ride? Juanny


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## dgosn (Sep 8, 2006)

*Salt Shuttle*

Be aware the Rockhouse store does shuttle and are reccomended by many people. Our experience was drastically different; The locked all the keys (five vehicles) in each individual car's ignition in plain view. We had told each driver to put them in one car, since the Take-out is so sketchy we all took our hide-a-keys off our cars.
When we got to the takeout to see all our keys locked in we called the lady, she said whe was "not responsible for what her drivers did". After harrassing her she cam down with a hanger to help. Well it seemed like this lady had been living pretty hard for several days and hadn't gotten a wink of sleep. She called her insurance to unlock one car, and then tried to convince us that since the locksmith was there we could all pay him to unlock the rest, well he wanted $75 a car, we finally convinced him on a lower price.
I will never ever use these people again if they arent responsible for their drivers. You might as well expect to see your car gone because someone saw the keys in the ignition. On the bright side you may be able to buy your car back at a discounte rate in a Globe chop shop........

scott


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## ecjohnson (Nov 6, 2007)

55k above roosevelt right now!!! 

edit: I mean at Chrysolite.



floaty22 said:


> 51000 and projected to 74 7:30 am. probrbly will get to 90? 110000? whose ready to ride? Juanny


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## TakemetotheRiver (Oct 4, 2007)

USGS said it hit 61000 this morning- new record high since 1916! I hope that doesn't mean no snowpack for run off in March.



ecjohnson said:


> 55k above roosevelt right now!!!
> 
> edit: I mean at Chrysolite.


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## storm11 (Feb 10, 2006)

Ski Sunrise, which is in the White Mountains, just got 16" with almost 2" of moisture in it. Snotel has the White Mountains at 148% and rising. 

Sounds like it snowed where it needed to snow, so I wouldn't worry about it.


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## JBL (Jun 7, 2006)

dgosn said:


> When we got to the takeout to see all our keys locked in we called the lady, she said whe was "not responsible for what her drivers did". After harrassing her she cam down with a hanger to help. Well it seemed like this lady had been living pretty hard for several days and hadn't gotten a wink of sleep. She called her insurance to unlock one car, and then tried to convince us that since the locksmith was there we could all pay him to unlock the rest, well he wanted $75 a car, we finally convinced him on a lower price.


What a shit deal. That really sucks.


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## bshock (Jun 15, 2007)

Here is site with a map of Arizona's SNOTEL sites. Click on Hannagan Meadows (one of the red dots in the White Mountains) or Baldy (the only blue dot in the White Mountains). These two sites are used to predict the Salt run-off. Once you click on one of them, click on the 7 day snow-water-equivalent data. This should give you an idea about the snowpack with all the recent rain. 

NRCS National Water and Climate Center - SNOTEL Map Based Network - Arizona

bs


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## benpetri (Jul 2, 2004)

Who's boating that stuff today? If I'm going to be stuck here in Golden then I want to see some pics!


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## TakemetotheRiver (Oct 4, 2007)

I don't think anyone would be around to bring the pics back at that level.



benpetri said:


> Who's boating that stuff today? If I'm going to be stuck here in Golden then I want to see some pics!


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## TakemetotheRiver (Oct 4, 2007)

80k and counting. I'd love to sit up high and watch that come through the canyon.


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## ecjohnson (Nov 6, 2007)

You're tellin me! I would love to see it too! I bet Juanny wants to paddle it right now. 



TakemetotheRiver said:


> 80k and counting. I'd love to sit up high and watch that come through the canyon.


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## Ice Water (Aug 28, 2007)

I am starting to get beyond amped to go... It's white water feaver around here! I'm hoping the snow melt holds out for the end of April... We are taking out on April 30th!


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