# Which SOTAR Cat would you recommnend?



## Big_B (Feb 17, 2019)

I have a 14' wave destroyer. Big fan of smaller cats with a lot of kick, they seem to handle bigger holes better. That being said I would lean towards the legend and at least 24" tubes if you want to haul some gear. As for the frame, for what you described you might consider a sport frame and removable cargo modules.


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## dgoods (Jul 15, 2013)

Over the years I've used and owned a variety of cats-starting back in 1993 doing guide training trips on the Upper Animas and Piedra using Jacks Plastic 16'ers. I've owned 2 16' Aire Jaguarundis 1 14' Aire Ocelot, and now I own a Sotar Legend 12'6 w/22" tubes.

It sounds like for your needs, a 15' Sotar ST cat w/24" tubes would be perfect for all around use. If you're leaning more towards class 4-5 stuff, consider the 15' Legend-its a big cat-might not track as well as an ST due to the increased rocker...

My 2nd generation Aire Jag was similar in design to the Sotar ST cat-with continuous curve tubes and moderate rocker. I took that boat on many different rivers: the Salt, Upper Kern, Upper Animas, Piedra, Taos Box, Grand Canyon, Cataract, Dolores, San Miguel, Arkansas, Lochsa, Selway... super versatile design-not too big, not too small-the Jag had 24" tubes and they worked well. IMO, a cat is more forgiving than a round boat and generally out-performs one in all but loaded, multi-day trips like the Grand.

My Legend is a great little boat, but like you mentioned, it is more of a class 4/5 boat. I've done 8 trips with it so far on the South Fork Salmon-ranging in flows from low to medium/high flows. The boat punches and floats up over giant breakers and holes exceptionally well. In comparison, my old Ocelot would sub out more in the bigger, steep drops and then require precious seconds to resurface and become maneuverable. I use a Payette River Equipment frame with it and also have a trailer frame. I've done the Selway, MFS, along with simple overnighters on class 3,4,5 stuff around Colorado.

Hope that helps- cats are great-especially for shorter trips- enjoy the quest- always exciting getting a new boat!


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## zipkruse (Jul 20, 2016)

Great advice, and ideal from a guy who's got the gear. Thank you!



Big_B said:


> I have a 14' wave destroyer. Big fan of smaller cats with a lot of kick, they seem to handle bigger holes better. That being said I would lean towards the legend and at least 24" tubes if you want to haul some gear. As for the frame, for what you described you might consider a sport frame and removable cargo modules.


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## zipkruse (Jul 20, 2016)

Amazing, thorough advice right here. I really appreciate this, and it's precisely the reason I asked, being new to the cat game. 
From video I've seen, looks like South Fork Salmon is the perfect multi-day cataraft test piece.
Thanks so much!



dgoods said:


> Over the years I've used and owned a variety of cats-starting back in 1993 doing guide training trips on the Upper Animas and Piedra using Jacks Plastic 16'ers. I've owned 2 16' Aire Jaguarundis 1 14' Aire Ocelot, and now I own a Sotar Legend 12'6 w/22" tubes.
> 
> It sounds like for your needs, a 15' Sotar ST cat w/24" tubes would be perfect for all around use. If you're leaning more towards class 4-5 stuff, consider the 15' Legend-its a big cat-might not track as well as an ST due to the increased rocker...
> 
> ...


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## [email protected] (Jun 1, 2010)

I have and row a 15'6" elite st sotar 24' tubes. I love it. It has been on just about every run in the western US. Just did a 8 day Main salmon run and never touched a pump. 14 years old and it is so stable (or lucky) that it has never been on its top. It is fun to row when not the main gear boat with 2 or more passengers. photos of GC attached.


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## zipkruse (Jul 20, 2016)

Wonderful pictures and huge holes! 
I'm going to go a little smaller as our California rivers are lower volume. 
Still, I am psyched about getting a cat. Thanks!



[email protected] said:


> I have and row a 15'6" elite st sotar 24' tubes. I love it. It has been on just about every run in the western US. Just did a 8 day Main salmon run and never touched a pump. 14 years old and it is so stable (or lucky) that it has never been on its top. It is fun to row when not the main gear boat with 2 or more passengers. photos of GC attached.


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## LJPurvis (Apr 12, 2017)

I have always had a cat. I started with a 14' Jack's Plastic. LOVED that boat. Big tubes and easy to handle but a bit heavy. I then went to a 16' Aire Jaguarundi. I very much enjoyed that boat and it made many trips down Hells Canyon, Main Salmon, Middle Fork, the Yampa, etc. I have a 16' Aire DD round boat for family trips. I decided to get rid of my Jag and get a light cat for teaching the kids and for my crazy spring runs down the Middle Fork. I was leaning toward SOTAR. Great boats. I ended up going with a 14' Aire Wave Destroyer instead. I don't need to list my reasons but it doesn't have ANYTHING to do with Aire vs SOTAR as I feel both are awesome and you cannot go wrong. Before going with the Wave Destroyer I was leaning toward the Legend.
One thing that I do with my cats is maintain two frames: One NRS frame so I can pack a few more things when necessary and one "play" frame for the spring trips and the kids to train on. I can lift the Wave Destroyer up and put it on my trailer without any help when the play frame is on it. The NRS provides more flexibility and carrying capacity but it is heavier and I have to drag it onto the trailer.

EDIT: Thought I would throw a gratuitous picture on of Pistol at 5.8'







:


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## Ever_Cat (Jan 20, 2009)

I like this thread. I own a 2004 14'x23" Elite SP (same as the ST but in the limited edition tan color) and a 2015 12.5'x22.5" Legend. Both are great boats. The 14' SP shines as a multi-day rig for just me or a day rig with a passenger, or two. Class 4 is no problem. The 12.5' Legend is my solo play boat and go-to boat as long as I don't have to carry too much. It does easily carry enough gear for shorter multi-day trips without losing its sportiness. My frame for the 14' SP is longer (2 bays behind the rower's cockpit) than my frame for the 12.5' Legend (one bay behind the rower's cockpit). A sport frame with a trailer frame is a great option for cats.

Both of these cats are the "standard" Sotar tube diameters. Personally, I don't see the need to upsize the tube diameter. If more capacity is needed, get one that is longer (just my opinion). For multi-day trips with a passenger, a 15.5' version of either style would be the ticket. A friend of mine had the SL cat and wasn't a fan.

Zipkruse, before buying, I suggest calling Ted Day at Payette River Equipment (PRE). Ted has worked closely with Sotar on tube design and will give you the low down on tubes and help guide you toward the appropriate cat for your needs. Like dgoods, I run PRE frames. Ron at PRE builds a great frame, custom made to your specs. I have no affiliation with PRE; just a fan.

I think that an ideal all-around Sotar cat would be a 14'x23" Legend. Not as sporty as the 12.5', but more carrying capacity. Dial in a sport frame with a trailer frame and you are set for day and multi-day trips. I am attaching a few pictures for comparative purposes.

Stacked 14' SP and 12.5' Legend









14' SP rigged on a multi-day San Juan trip.









12.5' Legend rigged on a multi-day Cataract Canyon trip.









12.5' Legend ready to get wet on the Upper Animas.


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## dgoods (Jul 15, 2013)

Here is some Legend love...


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## zipkruse (Jul 20, 2016)

Loved your photo and terrific advice. I was thinking of getting two frames, as well, or a modular with separate pieces. Love the idea of a day frame and extended trip frame. 
I was considering the Aire, which seems cheaper. But I've always hated the idea of the zippers and bladders. Seems unnecessary when no one else uses them.
Wonderful advice, all! Thanks!



LJPurvis said:


> I have always had a cat. I started with a 14' Jack's Plastic. LOVED that boat. Big tubes and easy to handle but a bit heavy. I then went to a 16' Aire Jaguarundi. I very much enjoyed that boat and it made many trips down Hells Canyon, Main Salmon, Middle Fork, the Yampa, etc. I have a 16' Aire DD round boat for family trips. I decided to get rid of my Jag and get a light cat for teaching the kids and for my crazy spring runs down the Middle Fork. I was leaning toward SOTAR. Great boats. I ended up going with a 14' Aire Wave Destroyer instead. I don't need to list my reasons but it doesn't have ANYTHING to do with Aire vs SOTAR as I feel both are awesome and you cannot go wrong. Before going with the Wave Destroyer I was leaning toward the Legend.
> One thing that I do with my cats is maintain two frames: One NRS frame so I can pack a few more things when necessary and one "play" frame for the spring trips and the kids to train on. I can lift the Wave Destroyer up and put it on my trailer without any help when the play frame is on it. The NRS provides more flexibility and carrying capacity but it is heavier and I have to drag it onto the trailer.
> 
> EDIT: Thought I would throw a gratuitous picture on of Pistol at 5.8'


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## zipkruse (Jul 20, 2016)

Fantastic photos! You all have me leaning Legend. Great-looking boat.



dgoods said:


> Here is some Legend love...


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## DRL River Gypsies (May 19, 2010)

I've had 15'6" x 24" ST tubes, 15' x 25" Legend tubes, and 14' x 24" Legend tubes, in that order too. In my opinion, a 15'6" - 16' cat isn't exactly a sports car and you might as well be in a 14' raft where you can haul way more weight and it looks you you might already have a round boat anyway? I'm afraid a bigger cat would be too similar to a smaller round boat. With the 14' Legend tubes, I typically bump them up to 24" diameter which ends up being nice size. At 14' long, they are short enough for solo day or light overnighters on the SFS or Illy both of which can be pretty tight at lower flows. Then on easier class IV expedition runs, you can add a passenger module in front with a big cooler and a passenger for your expedition trips. 

As for Legend or ST, the Legend's design definitely excells in class IV-V water over the ST's. If going Legend, I prefer a little shorter because the waterline on a 14' Legend isn't much shorter than a waterline on a 15'6" ST. To keep the overall footprint shorter, I'd rather go larger diameter 24" or maybe even 25" on 14' or 14'6" tubes than going 15'6" with 24" tubes. 

It also comes down to what are you going to be doing the majority of the time. If most the trips are going to be class III-IV expedition trips, then just get the bigger 15'6" tubes. If the majority is SFS and Illy then I'd go 14' x 24" Legend tubes. If you're going to be 50/50, then maybe 14' or 14'6" x 24" or even 25" diameter. 

Lastly, if you're wanting a Sotar for next year, you need to get on the ball asap! They are already booked into July next year. As a dealer I've bought a handful of reserved build dates and I'm sure the other couple dealers have done the same, but those will likey all be spoken for by early next year. 









14' x 24" Legend with passenger module setup for expetition trips









14' x 24" Legend, Illinois


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## GeoRon (Jun 24, 2015)

Great thread. Great pics. Love the Illinois. Been there 5 times and regret I'll not likely return. Love the Upper Animas( lost count); and of course the Grand.

My experience is to recommend the largest diameter tube per length for cats regardless of use. Go big then you can go bigger!

Skinny tube cat and low on the water double tube each side cats(such as Aire Cougars and Tigers); I do not recommend. They are miserable wet rides and notorious flippers. Just adding to the conversation and possibly sorry for disagreements concerning these rigs.

The larger the diameter cat per length will allow you to skim across the water when necessary. The only down side I can think of is wind exposure.


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## Zboy403 (Sep 12, 2018)

I have 14x 25 NRS tubes. I don’t have any other bias to go off of, but here’s what I’ve learned. 

Nice shallow draft when its the wife the dog and I for day runs. I do sit tall in the water. Which is kind of nice for float in scouting. It’s a very stable craft 35” between tubes. The Tuolumne at 3k was a hoot. The width still squeaks through the Sqeeze. It’s run the Snake at about 55k, waves fit for the Grand at those levels. NFA is a blast on it. It truly has seen a full spectrum or water and has proven to be very versatile.

I have a modular frame that I can add a two bay passenger module if I’m on an extended trip or taking more people. The main frame still can haul two, a drybox, cooler, two rocket boxes, plenty for a weekend trip. Versatile boat. I have about 5 different iterations I can use depending on the trip.


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## Zboy403 (Sep 12, 2018)

Zboy403 said:


> I have 14x 25 NRS tubes. I don’t have any other bias to go off of, but here’s what I’ve learned.
> 
> Nice shallow draft when its the wife the dog and I for day runs. I do sit tall in the water. Which is kind of nice for float in scouting. It’s a very stable craft 35” between tubes. The Tuolumne at 3k was a hoot. The width still squeaks through the Sqeeze. It’s run the Snake at about 55k, waves fit for the Grand at those levels. NFA is a blast on it. It truly has seen a full spectrum or water and has proven to be very versatile.
> 
> I have a modular frame that I can add a two bay passenger module if I’m on an extended trip or taking more people. The main frame still can haul two, a drybox, cooler, two rocket boxes, plenty for a weekend trip. Versatile boat. I have about 5 different iterations I can use depending on the trip.


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## zipkruse (Jul 20, 2016)

A really sage set of comments and awesome photos! I am definitely going to go with the 14' or 14'6" x 24" Legend. 

The modular frame idea, too, is excellent. I was thinking of two separate frames. But this is a great compromise. We're in NorCal, so most of what we do will be Tuolumne, MF American, etc. Also, I'm sort of getting the cat for my kids (14 and 17). When we do friends & family trips, they'll likely row the cat and I'll take the crew in the other boat. But I still want to get the cat on some class IV/V stuff I haven't done yet; Illinois, SF Salmon, etc. 

Thanks so much for thorough advice! 



DRL River Gypsies said:


> I've had 15'6" x 24" ST tubes, 15' x 25" Legend tubes, and 14' x 24" Legend tubes, in that order too. In my opinion, a 15'6" - 16' cat isn't exactly a sports car and you might as well be in a 14' raft where you can haul way more weight and it looks you you might already have a round boat anyway? I'm afraid a bigger cat would be too similar to a smaller round boat. With the 14' Legend tubes, I typically bump them up to 24" diameter which ends up being nice size. At 14' long, they are short enough for solo day or light overnighters on the SFS or Illy both of which can be pretty tight at lower flows. Then on easier class IV expedition runs, you can add a passenger module in front with a big cooler and a passenger for your expedition trips.
> 
> As for Legend or ST, the Legend's design definitely excells in class IV-V water over the ST's. If going Legend, I prefer a little shorter because the waterline on a 14' Legend isn't much shorter than a waterline on a 15'6" ST. To keep the overall footprint shorter, I'd rather go larger diameter 24" or maybe even 25" on 14' or 14'6" tubes than going 15'6" with 24" tubes.
> 
> ...


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## LJPurvis (Apr 12, 2017)

zipkruse said:


> Loved your photo and terrific advice. I was thinking of getting two frames, as well, or a modular with separate pieces. Love the idea of a day frame and extended trip frame.
> I was considering the Aire, which seems cheaper. But I've always hated the idea of the zippers and bladders. Seems unnecessary when no one else uses them.
> Wonderful advice, all! Thanks!


To tell the truth, weight was my primary reason for leaning towards the SOTAR. Historically the AIRE tubes were heavier. However, when I purchased my 14' Wave Destroyer I did it because (at that time) the 14' Wave Destroyer was lighter than the equivalent SOTAR. I didn't believe it until I looked it up on their respective websites. That was the only reason I went with AIRE on that purchase.

As for zippers and bladders, my friend had a major rip on his AIRE boat on the Middle Fork this year; about 6' of rubber and 2' of bladder (jagged T-shape). We unzipped it, put in a new bladder, stitched it up, and headed out. This would have been a tough repair without a spare bladder.


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