# Salt & Verde



## AZJefe (Jun 3, 2009)

It's raining below 7000' on the snow that fell last week. Sunday or Monday might be good days to take advantage of a pulse in flow. Expect cold water, messy roads, and wood. Be safe out there.


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## InflatableSteve (Jun 12, 2013)

Sweet. Here's to hoping.


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## Dusto5 (Oct 20, 2013)

So far, nothing is really happening... we'll see what happens over the next day or so. A good friends is running with the Verde River Rangers this weekend from Beasley to Childs, so I'm definitely keeping an eye on the flow.


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## topbud (Apr 9, 2010)

most of the snow that fell last week is already gone. Here's to hoping!!


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## sleighr (Nov 14, 2011)

yeah, Parks AZ here.... not much water just yet....


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## AZJefe (Jun 3, 2009)

*Today*

Looks like today was the day. Oak Creek is pushing 1000cfs at the Tlaquepaque gauge.


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## InflatableSteve (Jun 12, 2013)

AZJefe said:


> Looks like today was the day. Oak Creek is pushing 1000cfs at the Tlaquepaque gauge.


Wow! Wish I was out there.


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## DesertRatonIce (Jan 1, 2015)

I see on the weather channel that show low is getting some snow. Does this help the Salt?


Woke up this morning at 10:13.


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## Dusto5 (Oct 20, 2013)

It's close and kinda representative of the area that feeds into Cibecue Creek. A lot of the area east of Showlow affects the Salt upriver of the runnable section and Black River.


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## sleighr (Nov 14, 2011)

I am sayin tomorrow should be good too... we got a couple good showers today. every low spot is running...


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## InflatableSteve (Jun 12, 2013)

848 CFS at the Camp Verde gauge right now.


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## InflatableSteve (Jun 12, 2013)

Now at 1100! This is crazy.


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## AZ boater (Aug 29, 2014)

The forecaster says it will fall like crazy: 500 tomorrow morning, under 300 by end of day. 
CBRFC Conditions Map


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## InflatableSteve (Jun 12, 2013)

Any of you ever take a raft on the Verde? If so what size boat and what was the flow? I have seen pictures and videos of people who have, but I am not sure what the water level needs to be since it is such a narrow river.


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## AZ boater (Aug 29, 2014)

The sign at Beasley says rafts need at least 900.


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## InflatableSteve (Jun 12, 2013)

AZ boater said:


> The sign at Beasley says rafts need at least 900.


Thanks


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## amv48 (Mar 27, 2011)

I ran a 12' aire trib a couple times from Beasley to child's. Best if over 600. But the first time started at 800 and ended up about 400 and scraping over rocks. Second trip we ran R2 from Beasley to Gap Creek at about around 800. Fun Except for the hike out.


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## moetown (May 8, 2007)

*Rowing the Verde*

Over the years the Verde has become quite overgrown with midchannel willows in some places. It is possible to get a row rig down the Verde but the higher the flow, one wants to be careful in a few places. After gap creek there is a riverwide line of willows. I haven't seen the willow fence in a few years but the last time we were through we found the best alley and then as we approached we shipped the oars and hoped for the best. You could easily portage around as the Verde doesn't gorge up like Tonto Creek or the Salt. It was at 800 cfs so not to pushy and doable. After sheeps crossing is another area with similar complications.

Paddleboats are much easier to handle due to the currents and middle channel trees in alot of areas. During the high water season one is sure to find an abandoned canoe wrapped around a tree. 

The Verde channels pretty good at lower waters as much of the time it is running 100-200 cfs. I have taken a 14 foot boat down at 400 cfs but I am very tolerant of portaging the falls, and jumping off the boat to get her unhooked from a rock in the shallows below the eagle nesting area and above palisades. After Childs you can get a bump from the East Verde.

Mini mees are the ultimate.


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## moetown (May 8, 2007)

*Tonto Creek*

Rye Creek to Tonto Creek is another fun one for a daily. The shuttle is super easy, and the river goes from Verde style to Salt River Gorge Style. Back in the 80's-90's there was a death when some folks tried to run it at high high water. We've run it from 500 to 2K. Anyone ran it higher? What did you see?

Our 14 footer just cleared the slot width")

Another particular spot the river closes in, and runs smack dab into a rock that comes off the right shore with no escape to the right as it looked. (this is at the spot with the foam, sorry no better picture) At higher flows( we ran at 2k) it seems this would be a troubling area. Depending on what's rapped on the rock underwater, and how much flow( above 2K ) puts you back in the current the potential for suckage is great at high water. It would be interesting to see the hydraulics going on at this spot?!?


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## topbud (Apr 9, 2010)

Brady,
I saw you guys just ran Tonto at 1100 on the 1/22. What gauge do you check?I had my eye on Tonto above Gun Creek USGS Current Conditions for USGS 09499000 TONTO CREEK ABOVE GUN CREEK, NEAR ROOSEVELT, AZ
and it seems as if it didn't get above 70 or so. I may not be checking the correct gauge, but would love the correct site. I'd be down if you ever get there again. I keep an eye on gauges( obviously the wrong ones). Thanks
Tony


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## jmacn (Nov 20, 2010)

*Fun boating in AZ last week*

I didn't check the Tonto last week as I was too focused on the spike Oak Creek had. Tonto is such a great run! We got one run in on the Slide Rock section (Hoels-Manzanita) and a low water Indian Gardens-Sedona lap the following day. All rapids on those two sections were runnable. Oak Creek always has wood hazards, and we found that some of the mid stream logs had moved and others had shown up. Each of the logs that span most of the creek had a way to scoot around through the shallows without portaging. Oak Creek is a run that requires careful progress each time it's in, as wood will always be the biggest hazard. 

I also had a very fun weekend adventure on the Verde wilderness, Beasely-Sheep Bridge. The road into Sheep Bridge is one of the most beautiful 4x4 roads I've experienced in AZ. I'm glad I experienced it, and would return there as a camping trip. I won't use it as a takeout again because it makes a LONG shuttle MUCH LONGER. Taking out at Horseshoe Lake is more practical. Last year we did a Beasly-Horseshoe trip at base flow and it was awesome. Anyone with the winter boating blues should consider the Verde Wilderness! Keep an eye on the forecast and go during a warm spell.


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## Dusto5 (Oct 20, 2013)

Running Child's to Sheepsbridge with a small group starting Tuesday. Can't wait - haven't run in since 2013. We prefer the Sheepsbridge takeout if the group is small enough and we can find a driver. I personally love the Bloody Basin Road shuttle! It's long, but for one it beats having to paddle the lake, and the scenery and history/archaeology are great!

Missed the wave thru Oak Creek. You were able to negotiate your way thru lower Mormon Crossing? That's by far the worst spot.


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## jmacn (Nov 20, 2010)

We took out at Tlaquepaque on the Indian Gardens run. Is lower Mormon crossing downstream? I've never run below Sedona on Oak Creek, although I'd like to. I know there's some good surfing at higher water. But yes, for the two commonly run sections in Oak Creek Canyon, there weren't any mandatory portages. There is always lots off wood & strainers, and some typical manky rapids, but they were all navigable last week in kayaks. I portaged twice on the slide rock section, but others in the group ran everything...


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## AZJefe (Jun 3, 2009)

moetown said:


> Rye Creek to Tonto Creek is another fun one for a daily. The shuttle is super easy, and the river goes from Verde style to Salt River Gorge Style. Back in the 80's-90's there was a death when some folks tried to run it at high high water.


Wesley Hall died in there in January 1993. A couple of weekends in January and February of that year gave floods of record in AZ. He and a partner put on Rye Creek in extremely high water (~20K.) I was on the body recovery 2 days later. There is a memorial plaque above the gorge. Very sad situation.


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## jmacn (Nov 20, 2010)

Childs to Sheep Bridge would be an epic drive without any help from separate shuttle drivers. Hopefully you can line up some help! We had good water last weekend 600+ falling to 400ish. We were able to launch at Beasley and camped at the hot springs day 1. Sooo nice!!


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## AZJefe (Jun 3, 2009)

jmacn said:


> We took out at Tlaquepaque on the Indian Gardens run. Is lower Mormon crossing downstream? I've never run below Sedona on Oak Creek, although I'd like to.


There used to be an awesome ender hole below the Tlaquepaque bridge but ADOT fucked it up when they put in the new roundabout. There are good surfing ledges for a couple of miles below there. There's good ledge waves to play on near Red Rock Crossing and in the section near the Dry Creek confluence, past John McCains house, and down to near Page Springs. Dry Creek is real fun when it runs too. The Mormon Crossing area is choked with giant reed and full of gravel. It needs a good flushing but when it's clean there are great wave/hole combos made by outcrops of basalt bedrock below the low-water crossing there.


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## Dusto5 (Oct 20, 2013)

Yeah, Mormon's Crossing is almost halfway between the Page Springs bridge and Windmill Park in Cornville. It's prolly around a solid class III. A buddy of mine ran the same run you're talking about, pretty much the same day and thinks at that level it's a solid class IV. The lower run I'm referring to would probably bore you


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## dsmoake (Apr 2, 2010)

*Verde*

I just got off the Verde this past weekend. We had 240ish all weekend which is the minimum I need for a decent Soar trip. There were 3 of us, a hard shell, IK, and I rowed a Soar with an oar frame. We portaged the falls but everything else was fun. Here are some silly pics from our trip.

Dave

https://plus.google.com/photos/+sam...con&utm_medium=chrome_app&utm_campaign=chrome


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## Dusto5 (Oct 20, 2013)

Nice pics Dave! Thanks for sharing.


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## moetown (May 8, 2007)

*2011*

Unfortunately I missed all the hubub on Oak Creek last week  I don't think Tonto was running. My photos were from 2011ish I think. I had high hopes on a true Nino year this year. I called the USGS to see if the gauge in CHevelon and East Clear Creek are working and they think they are but some moisture would help. I'm thinking the rain and snow will start soon?  Crickets...


Josh,

Did you see any willows that would stop a raft from Childs to Sheeps Crossing? Were the tubs at Sheeps crossing operational?

Have they done any work on any new campsites upstream of the power plant at Childs?
Brady


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## lmyers (Jun 10, 2008)

Here's a few shots from the run on Oak Creek below Sedona at 700 cfs in 2010. Brushy, but fun. Hopefully this weather pattern changes and you guys get some moisture. I'd love to come boat in the AZ desert again.


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## jmacn (Nov 20, 2010)

*Class Tree*

Josh,

Did you see any willows that would stop a raft from Childs to Sheeps Crossing? Were the tubs at Sheeps crossing operational?

Have they done any work on any new campsites upstream of the power plant at Childs?
Brady[/QUOTE]

There are the typical tight, reed filled channels that are dicey in kayaks/IKs, and plenty of them. I've seen the FS down there with lightly loaded Puma sized rafts w/ oar frames. I don't know how they do it. I wouldn't consider rafting the wilderness Verd because as the water gets high enough to think raft, the narrow tree lined channels would be scary as shit! I guess at most flows you could do it with a little pushing here and there. A rapid I think is called "Nasty Rock Bar"(?) was the mankiest by far. As for improved campsites, I didn't notice any. The tall reeds are the biggest factor in finding good camping. The FS map is helpful for keeping track of where you are, but the labeled campsites are pretty outdated. The tubs at Sheeps Xing are not good right now. The road into Childs was closed briefly when we launched so we had the Hotsprings to ourselves...


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## InflatableSteve (Jun 12, 2013)

Looks like we will get another bump in flow. 1120 cfs at Oak Creek. Probably see a bump near Camp Verde tomorrow.


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## Micah Ruth (Jun 28, 2012)

A buddy and I just ran the Verde from Beasly to Horshoe dam a couple weeks ago. Flow was around 200-350CFS (it rained on the way down). I would agree that there are many very narrow channels with lots of strainers. Not sure how a raft would get through there, but an IK or paddle cat would be ok I think with the right flows. We had packrafts, and even then strainers caused a few swims. That said we saw a crew of rangers on the river (they had IK's) and they were working on removing vegetation. Maybe things will improve. Verde falls was the only thing we portaged because it looked super boney at that level. I think maybe there was a line though. Maybe.

On the positive side, we saw lots of river otters, bald eagles, bighorn sheep, and plenty of other birds. Plus the scenery is great and the bonus of having 2 hot springs and one warm spring on the way is cool as well. The tub at sheep bridge is operational, but it is hidden in the reeds. From the river, someone chopped a tunnel trough the reeds to the tub (made of stones). It feels very Indiana Jones going through that way. You are crouched down super low and it is very dark in the tunnel. Alternatively, you can go to the west side of the bridge and drop down to the springs - just look for a trail. 

The rest of the way to Horshoe was beautiful except there was one nasty strainer that got my buddy and he took a long swim. Throwbag rescue ensued. The reservoir was almost completely empty so we had flow all the way to the take out. I much prefer the horshoe take out over the marathon drive to and from sheep bridge. 

Great trip all in all I think. Some huge, beautiful, and remote country out there. Just be careful of the vegetation.


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## Peev (Oct 24, 2003)

Well is anyone getting it? The Salts over 5000.


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## Micah Ruth (Jun 28, 2012)

I am going to hit Tonto creek with some of the peeps that are on this thread tomorrow. Or the upper salt if Tonto falls too much. 


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## okieboater (Oct 19, 2004)

Watching the Salt gage and wondering just how all this rain will effect places like Hannigan Meadows snotel numbers. Any Salt Canyon or Show Low locals have opinions.


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## DesertRatonIce (Jan 1, 2015)

I'm on my way to the salt put in. It's running around 2900 right now. I'm getting close to Globe. Stoked!


Woke up this morning at 10:13.


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## Dusto5 (Oct 20, 2013)

Lucky SOB!!

We just got off the lower Verde run yesterday. Great trip - even with rain for nearly 24hrs straight. Sought refuge in a cave - it was pretty sweet!


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## InflatableSteve (Jun 12, 2013)

Camp Verde hit 2510 cfs which apparently beat the record of the last 37 years set in 1993 at 2150cfs for this day.


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## Micah Ruth (Jun 28, 2012)

Ran Tonto Creek today. About 700 CFS. Great fun!


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## mania (Oct 21, 2003)

Launched Saturday on the Salt at 5600. There were no other boaters except a few kayakers doing the daily which they finished in 45 minutes. here is a pic of Quartzite from Sunday.


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## Doug.shapiro (Feb 2, 2015)

*Avon*

Does anyone know what a 93 Avon 14' raft is worth, that is in good condition.


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## lmyers (Jun 10, 2008)

Doug.shapiro said:


> Does anyone know what a 93 Avon 14' raft is worth, that is in good condition.


That's not an appropriate question for this thread. Create your own thread on the topic, or post it to a current "rafting gear" thread.

Well done Dana. I knew someone would be out there taking advantage. Did you run the whole thing in 2 days!?


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## mania (Oct 21, 2003)

lmyers said:


> Well done Dana. I knew someone would be out there taking advantage. Did you run the whole thing in 2 days!?


Pretty close. 18 miles in 3 hours on Saturday then 30 miles on Sunday and whatever was left on the last day. Heads up that most of the traditional camps are essentially gone - completely overgrown or turned into cobbles. River right cherry creek is a wasteland there is no chalk creek camp etc.


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## wildh2onriver (Jul 21, 2009)

Any changes of note to the rapids? Btw, nice pic of quartzite.

My favorite level was around 10k, but then I was in an 18' cat.



QUOTE=mania;385979]Pretty close. 18 miles in 3 hours on Saturday then 30 miles on Sunday and whatever was left on the last day. Heads up that most of the traditional camps are essentially gone - completely overgrown or turned into cobbles. River right cherry creek is a wasteland there is no chalk creek camp etc.[/QUOTE]





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## InflatableSteve (Jun 12, 2013)

mania said:


> Launched Saturday on the Salt at 5600. There were no other boaters except a few kayakers doing the daily which they finished in 45 minutes. here is a pic of Quartzite from Sunday.


Cool photo man! Wish I was able to get out there. I have permits in for this year. If I am successful (and there is water) it will be my first time down the upper Salt.


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## jmacn (Nov 20, 2010)

Cherry Creek on river right hasn't had sand for years...


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## snowjunkie (Jun 29, 2009)

Hey there folks. I think this is the right thread for my question....
I won a 3/27/15 permit and have not done the Salt, what is too low to go for a 16 foot cat loaded with kayakers' beer and gear? I am usually the gear boat (which I really don't mind) and had a terrible experience on a 250 cfs San Juan trip that I'll never repeat. Thoughts?


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## InflatableSteve (Jun 12, 2013)

snowjunkie said:


> Hey there folks. I think this is the right thread for my question....
> I won a 3/27/15 permit and have not done the Salt, what is too low to go for a 16 foot cat loaded with kayakers' beer and gear? I am usually the gear boat (which I really don't mind) and had a terrible experience on a 250 cfs San Juan trip that I'll never repeat. Thoughts?


This will be my first year on the Salt as well. The guide book that I have suggests anything over a 13' raft should have at least 1000 cfs. I think you could go lower than that, but probably don't want to go to much lower unless you want it to be like Jaun trip you mentioned.


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## wildh2onriver (Jul 21, 2009)

snowjunkie said:


> Hey there folks. I think this is the right thread for my question....
> 
> I won a 3/27/15 permit and have not done the Salt, what is too low to go for a 16 foot cat loaded with kayakers' beer and gear? I am usually the gear boat (which I really don't mind) and had a terrible experience on a 250 cfs San Juan trip that I'll never repeat. Thoughts?



For me, 1000 cfs would be the minimum I would run it in my 14' raft with a light load. That's the lowest level I've run the salt and I had to drag in several places because of shallows. I also got wedged on a left side Quartzsite run for a few minutes.


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## snowjunkie (Jun 29, 2009)

This is why I love the Buzz. Great info thanks


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## wildh2onriver (Jul 21, 2009)

snowjunkie said:


> This is why I love the Buzz. Great info thanks



No problem. Keep in mind that my raft has more load capacity then a 16' typical cat and drafts less than an equally loaded cat. Go lite if it's at that level.




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## snowjunkie (Jun 29, 2009)

I agree that rafts have more flotation than cats. FWIW I have a 16' Jacks with 27" tubes. I will still take your advise for going light. Super fun boat to float but brutal to drag.


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## kayakingphotog (May 25, 2007)

The Salt is a sporty run. The San Juan really only has one rapid, Gov Rapid, The Salt has to many to list. I have taken my 16' jacks down the Salt many times and consider below 1K a min level. If the water is in that range I would tell the Yakers (thats primarily my preference these days) to forgo beer and bring tequila instead. As usual the permit gods were not nice to me and I promptly got me salt rejection this year. Sigh. Pray for snow.....


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## snowjunkie (Jun 29, 2009)

I didn't mean to miss lead about the Juan, apologies. I've screwed up many a line all over the Colorado river from Grand Junction to Pearce Ferry (minus the Moab Daily but I'll get to it sooner or later). I was merely trying to express that I do not want to drag my boat again and what is a decent flow. I am definitely looking forward to a great run on the Salt just need some additional beta for planning.


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## Dusto5 (Oct 20, 2013)

Anything is possible, but you might have missed that wave. Unless a huge storm comes in 2 weeks before your put-in and drops a ton of snow, I would come up with a plan "B". 
I drew a March 24th Salt permit. I'm anticipating the flow to be around 300ish, if we get nothing but a couple more rain storms.


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## abron (Nov 19, 2004)

snowjunkie said:


> Hey there folks. I think this is the right thread for my question....
> I won a 3/27/15 permit and have not done the Salt, what is too low to go for a 16 foot cat loaded with kayakers' beer and gear? I am usually the gear boat (which I really don't mind) and had a terrible experience on a 250 cfs San Juan trip that I'll never repeat. Thoughts?


So for a traditional trip, 1000cfs minimium is what i have heard as well. i would love to catch higher flows. I did a trip at 500>300cfs last year with Mr.French (whattup Mike.!! Call me sometime...! still got yer nalgene that was in my truck) 
But if you can dial it down and essentially run self support out of a 10'er and hardshells/duckies, its still totally feasible down to 400-ish. 300 kinda sucked on the last two days,out of the canyon, where it widens out. you might have to drag a bit if you chose the wrong channel ( it was a read and run 1st D for all 3 of us so we got broached a couple times. ) 
i know a couple from Santa fe/Durango who also guide the salt every spring,before Animas Rio grande season, and they have gotten 10' down well below acceptable levels...into the 2-300 range. It can be done ultralight selfsupport style. at low water it requires a healthy sense of adventure, and a boat thats not too heavy to drag. but just a bit... 

Shit we crammed all kinds of beers and cider cans in every crevice in our kayaks, and had bourbon marinated filet mignon the first night. (started frozen out of the cooler...) we had a blast. didn't really want for anything, albeit backpacking style camping instead of the raftstraveganza... (not that thats not fun too, i am outfitting a setup finally myself.) 

The rapids are totally legit III-IV at low water and would be Rowdy at high water. It reminds me a lot of the Rio Grande in some ways, and then is completely different, with incredible geology and riverbed/ drops, and saguaro characters...
Its totally worthy... 
anddddd....Only two brown recluse sightings... both near my drysuit and drying gear, the first night...:shock:


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## dsmoake (Apr 2, 2010)

*Salt minimm*

I have had my 14 footer down the wilderness section twice at 800. I would do it again. I had my gear and one passenger. Watch out for quartzite at that flow, its a flipper. It got me my last trip.
Dave


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## El Flaco (Nov 5, 2003)

Dusto5 said:


> Anything is possible, but you might have missed that wave. Unless a huge storm comes in 2 weeks before your put-in and drops a ton of snow, I would come up with a plan "B".
> I drew a March 24th Salt permit. I'm anticipating the flow to be around 300ish, if we get nothing but a couple more rain storms.


That's a bummer to hear- I pulled the day before yours (23rd) and was going to sit and research the Snotel reports compared to flows this weekend. I thought I saw that all the percentages in that drainage was lousy down low, but OK up higher. I was hoping that would mean we'd get some flow by late March, but you sound a lot more pessimistic. :-(


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## Dusto5 (Oct 20, 2013)

Haha! I began my post with, "Anything is possible..." It's the most optimistic speak I know of! 
No, really it's hard to tell. Last year at this time it hadn't precipitated since early December. this year we're getting moisture, but it's mostly been rain, melting off what little snow they had up there. Rain alone can bring the flow up, but it's not a sustained snow run-off. The rain hits, it spikes, then drops back down in a matter of days. If we're lucky, a nice wet snow will drop this month or the early part of March. If not, and we only get more rain, it'll peak quick, then settle back down into a medium/low-flow range.


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## DesertRatonIce (Jan 1, 2015)

You gotta be a gauge watcher this time of year. 


Woke up this morning at 10:13.


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## InflatableSteve (Jun 12, 2013)

DesertRatonIce said:


> You gotta be a gauge watcher this time of year.
> 
> 
> Woke up this morning at 10:13.


What gauges should I be watching for upper Salt (HWY 60 - HWY 288 )?


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## El Flaco (Nov 5, 2003)

Latest Snotel report shows some middling numbers in the basin:

















Need that El Nino to kick up some wet snows soon; but it seems at least the stations that are lagging are either lower in the drainage or not as critical. Eyeballing the map, I'm not sure why Coronado Trail and Nutrioso are counted in the Salt region....


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## Mr French (Aug 21, 2013)

Salt @ crysotile is the gauge for real time.
Black river + white river by fort apache gives you a 12+ hour heads up (add corrizo if its raining hard in that area).

http://waterdata.usgs.gov/az/nwis/u...at=gif_mult_sites&PARAmeter_cd=00060&period=7


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## InflatableSteve (Jun 12, 2013)

Mr French said:


> Salt @ crysotile is the gauge for real time.
> Black river + white river by fort apache gives you a 12+ hour heads up (add corrizo if its raining hard in that area).
> 
> USGS Current Conditions for Arizona


Thanks! I thought that was the one, but wasn't sure.


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## InflatableSteve (Jun 12, 2013)

Are any of you familiar with FS road 303 leading to Gleason Flat? How ruff is the road? I have a friend that will be joining the first two days of our Salt trip from HWY 60 to Gleason Flat before the wilderness section. We are trying to figure out weather he can park his car/truck near the campsite before the run, or if it is best for someone to pick him up that day. If he parks his vehicle for a couple days, are any other permits required? If he has someone pick him up do they need to get a permit from the Apache as well?


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## AZJefe (Jun 3, 2009)

I call that "The Road Too Far" It used to be heinous and I think it is no longer passable to even high-clearance 4WD vehicles.



InflatableSteve said:


> Are any of you familiar with FS road 303 leading to Gleason Flat? How ruff is the road? I have a friend that will be joining the first two days of our Salt trip from HWY 60 to Gleason Flat before the wilderness section. We are trying to figure out weather he can park his car/truck near the campsite before the run, or if it is best for someone to pick him up that day. If he parks his vehicle for a couple days, are any other permits required? If he has someone pick him up do they need to get a permit from the Apache as well?


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## InflatableSteve (Jun 12, 2013)

AZJefe said:


> I call that "The Road Too Far" It used to be heinous and I think it is no longer passable to even high-clearance 4WD vehicles.


Well shit. Are there any places to get off the river near Gleason Before the wilderness area?


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## AZJefe (Jun 3, 2009)

InflatableSteve said:


> Well shit. Are there any places to get off the river near Gleason Before the wilderness area?


There is a road on the Apache side of the river that goes to Gleason but you'd need to check with the tribe about access and permits. There's also a road that gets down close to Walnut Creek Falls below Ledges.


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## Mr French (Aug 21, 2013)

I've driven the road to Gleason a couple times late 2013. The last quarter to half mile in def four wheel drive and no space to turn around (older tundra made it). Theres a nice drop off about a hundred feet before being able to turn around at the end that is a bitch to go back up. Might be able to park a vehicle before the last part and walk up the hill upon take out. There's a ranch close to the end of the dirt road and up to there the road isn't (wasn't) bad.


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## DeanHill (Feb 13, 2015)

Anyone have experiance with leaving a vehicle at Horseshoe dam? Is there a good place to park? Any safety concerns? 

We are planning on putting in a Beasly Flat on the 23rd and packrafting to Horseshoe in 7-8 days.


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## 86304 (Apr 15, 2008)

haven't been there for a few years but there's a large parking lot.

as far as leaving a vehicle there......
it's pretty remote and unprotected. perfect for tweekers and the like (sorry to say).
i would not leave my vehicle there anymore. (used to but that was 30 yrs. ago). after getting broken into at the take out at the salt, i'm not so trusting any more. 
that said, you can do what feels best for you. it might just be fine. 

bob


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## AZ boater (Aug 29, 2014)

What Bob said: it may be just fine, but I have heard there has been vandalism up there. Also it looks like SRP is trying to partially fill up horseshoe, it is at 27% and rising; so you may be looking at quite a paddle across the lake. No big deal if conditions are right, but high winds can make that paddle troublesome. 


Sheep's bridge may be a safer alternative, but there's no guarantee the tweekers and the like cant make it up that difficult, but passable road.


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## 86304 (Apr 15, 2008)

just a heads up, the road to sheep's bridge on river left is officially closed by the forest service till sometime in March. fines and all that. 

the Bloobly Basin road on river right, from I-17 to Tangle Ck is as bad or worse as it's ever been (as of January).

the 7 Springs rd from Cave Ck to Tangle is pretty good (as of January).
haven't been past there (down the rest of the way to Sheeps' Bridge) in a while.

maybe someone else can fill in the blank.

of course all these roads turn into greasy messes when it rains. 

bob


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## MrScamp (Mar 19, 2013)

I have an April fools day Salt permit, the irony. I own a 13 ft raft and tandem duckie. If I'm reading this post right the raft would be good >1000 and ok at >800 if we go ultra light. Sound about right? Also if I'm reading the vibe right I have slim chance in hell of either of those flows. 

What about a tandem duckie with one person and gear? What level would be ok and what would that trip be like? I've never really done class IV in my duckie and certainly not with gear. Hmmmm.....

Thanks for any tips!



Sent from my iPad using Mountain Buzz


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## AZ boater (Aug 29, 2014)

AZJefe said:


> There is a road on the Apache side of the river that goes to Gleason but you'd need to check with the tribe about access and permits. There's also a road that gets down close to Walnut Creek Falls below Ledges.


I just spoke to the tribe about the road to Gleason, on the Apache side. The guy recommended four wheel drive, but the road is passable. He also indicated it would be quicker to come from Roosevelt, which appears to be Forest road 203 (cherry creek rd.) from my outdated map; then from Gleason you can drive to the Hwy 60 bridge on the Apache side.

He indicated you just need the 2 day tribal permit, none from the forest service if you takeout at Gleason.


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## 86304 (Apr 15, 2008)

you can portage most everything, corkscrew might be a prob. never looked at it to portage. others may have and can chime in. eye of the needle might be a tough portage but the right side could be an easy pour over in a duckie, depending on the cfs.

how many people in duckies? with a few it gets easier and safer.

BTW, i have run it in a 13' Maravia Spider @ 400 in May (launched @ gleason) but no gear, just repair and 1st aid, toilet and fire pan and sleeping bag and some minimal food, backpack stove, instant coffee, no beer. you know the routine.

lower corral, black rock, and corkscrew were the worst. the rest was just boney and mostly a bunch of rock dodging and spin off's. only had to get out and push a few times in the lower end.

yeah, i don't know if that's helpful or not. i figure you're probably trying to figure out whether or not to spend the money on the permit. 
tough call. you'll have to make that one on your own! good luck. 

the one thing i remember, is that at least everything at that level was happening in slow motion!!! :wink: 

bob


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## InflatableSteve (Jun 12, 2013)

AZ boater said:


> I just spoke to the tribe about the road to Gleason, on the Apache side. The guy recommended four wheel drive, but the road is passable. He also indicated it would be quicker to come from Roosevelt, which appears to be Forest road 203 (cherry creek rd.) from my outdated map; then from Gleason you can drive to the Hwy 60 bridge on the Apache side.
> 
> He indicated you just need the 2 day tribal permit, none from the forest service if you takeout at Gleason.



Thanks!


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## Dusto5 (Oct 20, 2013)

Huh? Where?


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## Stiff N' Wett (Feb 18, 2010)

Can anyone tell me what the water temp of the Salt is around mid March. If we go I'll be taking a small boat with limited cooler space and I'd like to know how cold my beers will be. Thanks


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## DesertRatonIce (Jan 1, 2015)

It's cold. Snow melt, so upper 40's or so. Maybe higher a bit.


Woke up this morning at 10:13.


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## Zoner (Apr 21, 2010)

Salt Minimums:
16' 8-850 CFS
14' 6-650 CFS
12' 4-450 CFS

Low water has it's own set of challenges.


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## InflatableSteve (Jun 12, 2013)

Camp Verde Gauge is at 738. Why does this keep happening on weak days? Not having a car sucks when the river is flowing.


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## Stiff N' Wett (Feb 18, 2010)

Looks like it's snowing in the mountains does anyone know if it's snowing much above the Salt?


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## snowjunkie (Jun 29, 2009)

How are you guys and gals feeling about the new snow fall? Is there a chance for 1000+ CFS in the end of march for the Salt? MMMMM to buy the permit or not is the question. I have a week and half to decide with more moisture in the forecast.


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## DesertRatonIce (Jan 1, 2015)

Buy the permit and enjoy the Salt. 


Woke up this morning at 10:13.


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## snowjunkie (Jun 29, 2009)

Thanks! Now I'm done with contemplation. Big risk equals big reward. C'mon snow!!! So we can all enjoy it.


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## doughboy (Mar 23, 2009)

Drove from Vegas to colorado yesterday and snowed most of the way. Heavy snow in Northern. March 30 permit so I still have hope.


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## Dusto5 (Oct 20, 2013)

My permit is bought and I'm pretty stoked! I'm predicting 500+ for our launch on the 24th.


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## DesertRatonIce (Jan 1, 2015)

500 was my first trip down. Loved every minute of it!


Woke up this morning at 10:13.


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## doughboy (Mar 23, 2009)

Hopefully 500 plus 500. Calling for snow all week in southern Colorado so hopefully it will snow in Arizona everyday also. Sitting in my ducky gets old after a few hours


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## InflatableSteve (Jun 12, 2013)

Was suppose to snow in Flag yesterday. It rained here, but today is sunny. The rain is suppose to be back this weekend.


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## doughboy (Mar 23, 2009)

DesertRatonIce said:


> 500 was my first trip down. Loved every minute of it!
> 
> 
> Woke up this morning at 10:13.


In raft or Kayak?


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## DesertRatonIce (Jan 1, 2015)

I was in a pack raft. Super Fun.


Woke up this morning at 10:13.


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## InflatableSteve (Jun 12, 2013)

1,790 now. The river seams to be a mistress I cannot ride.


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## Stiff N' Wett (Feb 18, 2010)

What gauge are you watching?


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## InflatableSteve (Jun 12, 2013)

Stiff N' Wett said:


> What gauge are you watching?


VERDE RIVER NEAR CAMP VERDE. We run about a 3 mile stretch just below Camp Verde.


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## El Flaco (Nov 5, 2003)

Zoner said:


> Salt Minimums:
> 16' 8-850 CFS
> 14' 6-650 CFS
> 12' 4-450 CFS
> ...


Thanks for this info. 

I've got a March 23rd launch and 16 footer, so I'm definitely on the fence. Duckie trip really isn't an option with the wife, she's got some back issues. I'm toying with the idea of finding a 14' boat to rent, but I don't feel like rigging different boat. 

Gotta pull the go/no go by Monday


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## DesertRatonIce (Jan 1, 2015)

I am seeing a Huge system coming into California. Anybody who lives in the AZ mountains, are you guys gonna get this storm?


Woke up this morning at 10:13.


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## InflatableSteve (Jun 12, 2013)

DesertRatonIce said:


> I am seeing a Huge system coming into California. Anybody who lives in the AZ mountains, are you guys gonna get this storm?
> 
> 
> Woke up this morning at 10:13.


I don't live in the mountains, but the folks at Salt River Rafting are expecting the storm to head this way.


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## topbud (Apr 9, 2010)

I live in Flagstaff, Town didn't get much snow, but the mountain claimed 32", it was great skiing!! There is supposed to be a storm rolling in and I hear it should be productive over the weekend. Hoping!! What stretch do you do below Camp Verde? Clear Creek to Beasley?


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## InflatableSteve (Jun 12, 2013)

topbud said:


> I live in Flagstaff, Town didn't get much snow, but the mountain claimed 32", it was great skiing!! There is supposed to be a storm rolling in and I hear it should be productive over the weekend. Hoping!! What stretch do you do below Camp Verde? Clear Creek to Beasley?


The put in is just south of town off Salt Mine road and we take out at Beasley.


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## lazy backpacker (Feb 12, 2012)

Check out Watershedmonitor.com. It has the Verde and Salt watershed gauges from USGS and SRP on all one site.


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## InflatableSteve (Jun 12, 2013)

Just did the Salt daily run from the Bridge to Hoodoo yesterday and today. Gauge was showing about 630 cfs on Saturday morning and we were told it was about 550 cfs this morning. A bit of scraping, but still tones of fun in our IK's. We talked with a couple of the guys from Mild to Wild and they said they run their rafts down to 300 cfs on the day run, and 400 from bridge to bridge.


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