# Westwater permit



## Electric-Mayhem (Jan 19, 2004)

You call the BLM office in Moab and ask for one. Its a first come first served system, and dates open up 2 months in advance.

They keep a availability calendar here...

https://www.blm.gov/sites/blm.gov/files/utah_westwatercanyon_privatecalendar.pdf

The Westwater BLM website is here... https://www.blm.gov/programs/recreation/passes-and-permits/lotteries/utah/westwatercanyon

Its mostly likely pretty iced over right now, plus the government shutdown effecting things, but once it starts to warm up you should be able to get a permit if its within two months of when you want to launch. Weekends fill up fast, so jump on them quick if you want them.


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## trueblue (May 27, 2018)

all info on this page:
https://www.blm.gov/programs/recreation/passes-and-permits/lotteries/utah/westwatercanyon


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## Andy H. (Oct 13, 2003)

Call the river office two months before you want to launch, hope you get through and get a permit...


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## blueotter (Nov 30, 2018)

Thanks guys. That was exactly what I was looking for.
The site mentioned that the campsites are assigned by the ranger at check in; first come, first served. Anybody have any favorite campsites...ones I could hope for?
Probably be a smaller group in Aug or Sept.

Also, what are the best take outs? Do any of you like to go all the way to Moab, or is Cisco best?

Thanks again for your responses & insight.


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## Amoon (Jun 5, 2018)

i don’t know anyone that has done the float between Cisco and Dewey Bridge. My understanding is that it is miles and miles of flat water with little to no current. Also, I’m pretty sure there are restrictions on certain parts of that stretch for wildlife (bird) refuge. Restrictions meaning stuff like “stay on the water” or “take this channel around an island”. The BLM office will know for sure.

Even the first several miles from Dewey bridge to onion creek are very slow. As are the final few miles from big bend to Moab. I’m August/September I have to guess the whole stretch between Cisco and Moab will be really slow. 

My opinion: even the Moab daily (onion creek to take out beach) is only fun above 12000 cfs. Really better above 17000. In August you’ll be around 4000 - 6000. Riding a rubber raft at a snails pace. Feeling like you’re inside a toaster oven. 

Westwater is fun at lower levels still. Makes the high temperatures worth it.


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## Electric-Mayhem (Jan 19, 2004)

Different strokes for different folks. I used to be totally anti-flatwater, but I've started to come around to accepting it for what it is.... a nice relaxing way to have a day on the river. Don't get me wrong...its gonna be slow going, but depending on what you are looking for it may be a great way to extend the trip. It does eventually meet Highway 128, so you'll have eventual road noise. There is camping, but it is maintained BLM campsites along the road so you'll be sharing space with Car campers.

I've never been super compelled to continue on, but I know people do it fairly regularly. Having a motor to help speed up the flatwater might be a thing to consider as well. Frankly, I'd rather do a Westwater overnighter, then go back and do it again rather then continue on to Moab.


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## blueotter (Nov 30, 2018)

You guys are amazing! Thanks a lot. That's pretty much what I thought regarding going past Cisco.
Sounds like the best way to extend the trip is to do it pre-Westwater in Ruby Horsethief, which I've done a couple times.

How about the camps within Westwater...any favorites?

And thanks again for the replies.


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## blueotter (Nov 30, 2018)

Electric-Mayhem said:


> Frankly, I'd rather do a Westwater overnighter, then go back and do it again rather then continue on to Moab.


Wait...we can do that?


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## eddie (Apr 12, 2005)

Most of the camps in WW are pretty good. The main thing you will need to decide is if you want to camp before the rapids or after. There are pros and cons to both. Just a couple of examples, others can pitch in more.. if you're doing Ruby/Horsethief it can be a long morning against the wind to reach the WW ranger station, where you will have to check in with the ranger. In this case it's nice to get one of the upper campsites in WW so that the day isn't too long. Or maybe you're putting in at WW and you want to get one of the lower sites. This way you run all the rapids, have a great party at camp, then only have a short float out the next day. This gets you off the river earlier since most folks have a bit of a drive to get home from Cisco.


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## blueotter (Nov 30, 2018)

eddie said:


> .. Or maybe you're putting in at WW and you want to get one of the lower sites. This way you run all the rapids, have a great party at camp, then only have a short float out the next day. This gets you off the river earlier since most folks have a bit of a drive to get home from Cisco.


This...for sure.

Thanks


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## mikesee (Aug 4, 2012)

Electric-Mayhem said:


> Its mostly likely pretty iced over right now



I haven't had eyes on it but I'd be amazed if it's iced over. Just hasn't been cold in these parts this winter.

I ran it end of January last winter and there was virtually zero ice -- basically tiny bits on shore rocks adjacent to a few calm pools, but nothing stretching onto or over the river. Wasn't cold last winter either.


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## wildh2onriver (Jul 21, 2009)

I don’t know for sure, but based on the iced over areas along HWY 128 this morning near Dewey Bridge as well as downstream, I would not bet on there not being ice in a few of the pond sections in Westwater.




mikesee said:


> Electric-Mayhem said:
> 
> 
> > Its mostly likely pretty iced over right now
> ...


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## DoStep (Jun 26, 2012)

Parts of the inner canyon do not see sun for a few months. 

I know the GJ guy has some local knowledge, but I'd expect ice in WW Canyon through February.


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## caverdan (Aug 27, 2004)

blueotter said:


> Wait...we can do that?


You can if you get the permits.


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## twmartin (Apr 3, 2007)

BlueOtter:

Instead of proceeding downstream from Cisco Landing (WW customary takeout), I would suggest that you add to your trip by doing the Loma-Westwater run before your Westwater launch. You can launch at Loma and spend 2 nights in that section before getting to WW on Day 3. You can spend the 3rd night at a campsite at the WW launch and launch for WW on Day 4, and spend night 4 on the WW stretch. Advantages to camping above the rapids are that your crew can party their faces off all day until camp, and then run the canyon hungover the next day and drive home.

I prefer to run the canyon and camp below as I have a long drive home in a crappy old river truck with a heavy trailer. Leaving Cisco landing at 1 is a lot easier on me than leaving at 7. 

Even in the middle of summer, it is easy to get a mid-week WW permit only a couple of weeks in advance. I believe you can have multiple open permits at any time, but you can only have 1 unpaid permit at a time. I have had as many as three permits open at one time. You need to call at 8 am 60 days before a weekend launch if you hope to get a weekend permit.

Keep in mind that dogs are allowed on the Loma Stretch, but not Westwater. I used the layover night at WW to run my puppy up to a dogsitter in GJ the last time I was there. The WW rangers don't want to see your dog off leash.

It is very common for small groups, or single Boat trips to group up to run the canyon together. If you are to any degree hesitant about your ability to run, wait at Upper Little D campsite for other groups. The two times I have done single boat trips, I just traveled with people I met at the put in. It is only a problem if you camp together.

Good Luck.


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## blueotter (Nov 30, 2018)

TW,
Thanks for your thoughtful write up.
Your 1st paragraph is exactly what I'm planning now, thanks to everybody's input.
Can't wait.


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## DoStep (Jun 26, 2012)

*Do not waste a night of that trip at Westwater Camp.*

Rowing from Blackrocks to any Upper Westwater camp is not a difficult leg at any level. Just make a bona fide effort to locate the ranger on your way by, at the least leave a note that you used your permit, and take the first available camp that you like. Again, do not waste a night of that trip at Westwater Camp.


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## Electric-Mayhem (Jan 19, 2004)

blueotter said:


> Wait...we can do that?


Yes. You might have to have another person get the permit since I believe the rule is you can only have one permit at a time, but its definitely doable. You aren't allowed to put on twice in one day, but you can do back to back trips.

As for camps... all the Little D camps are nice. Lower is hard to get to at low water but is doable if you are willing to huff you gear 100 feet from the boats. Hades is great for a small group. If you are looking for a short first day, Miners Cabin is decent.

I think my favorite camp is Bighorn though...its after the rapids but its nice and secluded and is up against a cliff face so there is some protection from the wind if it kicks up.

At low water they are all pretty muddy but to varying degrees. At high water its all pretty good though. There are certainly a few down there that aren't great (always forget the one a little ways down from Miners Cabin but it has a super steep bank and not much room for anything down by the boats...no idea about whats up top though).


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## blueotter (Nov 30, 2018)

DoStep said:


> . Again, do not waste a night of that trip at Westwater Camp.


I was wondering about that camp.
How far from the ramp? Can you leave boats at the ramp overnight? Etc, etc...

You're saying not worf it, huh?


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

blueotter said:


> I was wondering about that camp.
> How far from the ramp? Can you leave boats at the ramp overnight? Etc, etc...



The camps are right at the ramp for the closest ones, and 30 paces for the far ones. $20.00 a night at the self serve kiosk at the vault toilets. You can leave boats tied up either upstream or downstream from the ramps overnight. As of last year, there is NO potable water available, and that's unlikely to change in 2019 from what I hear. 



It's either a great spot to camp, OR if the campground is fuller, a close encounter with up to 6 other groups, AND on weekends generally the rigging ruckus starts at daybreak. Sleeping in generally isn't an option, but I've seen worse put in camps, Bradfield Bridge and the Salt come to mind... Most of the time, especially during the week, there is only 1 or 2 campsites occupied, and is a very pleasant stay. 



Beware, the bicycle groups have found the campsites and I've seen a bunch of them monopolizing the campground, they do NOT have the same etiquette rules that rafters / kayakers have... Exasperating situations are common, and a "me first" mentality seems to be prevalent in most of them sorry to say. There are some genuinely nice cyclists, but they seem to be the exception. 



Texted with Bobby Brennan one of the permanent rangers last night, he's been guiding snowmobile trips this winter due to the gubbermint shut down, pretty much all personnel at the Moab River Office have been furloughed, he related to me that there wouldn't be any permits issued until something changes, and no personnel to check in / assign camps. 



I heard a rumor from an unreliable (lol) source in Moab that there's a possibility Utah will invest in partially funding the river due to Moab relying on river concessions for a large part of many businesses yearly revenue, but I really can't see that happening when Grand County won't even repair the roads on a good year. 



No permit, no trip. As far as enforcement, the Utah State Parks department LE folk will handle that, issuing citations to those that think they can launch without a permit despite numerous signs stating "Advance permits required to launch"... You gotta leave your car somewhere while you're on the river... 



As far as favorite camps, mine are in order of preference, and I go down a lot, would be #1) Bighorn Sheep after the rapids, above the rapids 2) Upper Cougar Bar, Hades Bar, Folley which is a great camp if you like stargazing, albeit exposed, and lastly Little Hole, which allows you to row up the eddy to Little Hole Canyon for a nice hike. The trade off is a steep approach to the camp, but fabulous tent and groover spots, very dispersed camping even for a large group. 



My 2¢, from a volunteer Westwater ranger of 19 years or so.


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## blueotter (Nov 30, 2018)

MNichols,
Thank you so much for your informative reply.
Much more than .02c


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