# Playboat good for beginner?



## intargc (Apr 14, 2011)

I've been paddling a Diesel 80 but have had my eye on the new Freeride. I paddled the 67 on a river and liked it, but it was too big for me. I paddled the 57 in a pool and it felt much more wobbly and loose, but I still enjoyed paddling it.

I'm pretty new and have just started to get my roll down in a pool. I'm pretty good at rolling in a pool but haven't tried in current yet...

I've been told that boats like the Freeride or Fuse are good starter boats because they get you into learning hard things on easy rivers. I can see how thisnmay be, but I'm slightly concerned that this may cause some discouragement as well...

Has anyone started in a playboat Or have any opinion on using a boat like this for a newbie to learn in?


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## tskoe23 (Jun 19, 2010)

Im probably not the best person to give advice, but I just started and I have a Liquid logic big wheel. I learned how to roll pretty quickly and it seemed pretty smooth in the river.


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## NathanH. (Mar 17, 2010)

I can't give great advice either but I paddled a Vision 56 for awhile when I was a beginner and can say it def. makes you work harder and learn your skills with better form.

The only thing that matters is if the boat is comfortable.


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## chop217 (Jun 11, 2011)

i have never been in a playboat and probably never will be. don't like the idea of playboats. but that does not mean anything, they are great for some people to learn in. Heard it both ways, it all personal preference though, as nathan h said.


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## SummitSurfer (Jun 23, 2010)

I have a Fuse and love it! Good playing and river running a beginner friendly since it's forgiving! But you have to go with what is more simple to u! . Demo boats before I commit!


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## mdignan (Dec 26, 2010)

I think a river-play boat like the ones you mentioned is the way to go rather than a full on playboat. They won't be nearly as stable as a river runner but that's good for practicing your combat roll. I just grabbed an older Jackson 4Fun and took it out today, I would definitely recommend it.


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## chepora (Feb 6, 2008)

I started in a river runner/playboat and I think its great for a beginner. I would stay away from the high end play specific boats though...but that's just me


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## earthNRG (Oct 24, 2003)

Playboats have a steeper learning curve, but if you stick with it and learn fast, you'll likely do better in the long run. Unless you have a "go big or go home" attitude, the playboat will likely force you to stay on easier rivers until you have a solid paddling foundation and roll, simply because you won't be comfortable stepping it up. However, if you're easily discouraged, or don't learn quickly, then I would recommend you stick with the river runner.


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## intargc (Apr 14, 2011)

I think I have been learning pretty quickly so far. I got a consistent pool roll within 1 hour of teaching and picked up all of the basic strokes quickly. I certainly do not have a "go big or go home" attitude. I'm out there to just have fun and enjoy myself. 

Right now, the rivers I'm on are all Class II/III rivers. There is one river that has one Class III+ feature after a good rain. I handle II/III just fine in the Diesel, but that's a very forgiving boat. I handled Class II just fine in the Freeride 67! However, it was too big for me but it felt very stable. The 57 was a world of difference and just in the pool. I'm hoping to find a 57 for rent this weekend and see if it will be overwhelming or not... 

By easier rivers, do you mean Class III and under? Or maybe Class II and under? I'd like to at least hit some Class III. 

Thanks for all the help everyone.


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## earthNRG (Oct 24, 2003)

River class is very regionally subjective, and I've not paddled anything out east. If it's pool drop and you won't be beat to shit by a long swim, then easy III and under until you get a handle on the edgyness and squirlyness of a playboat, then it's up to you to decide on what you and your paddling buddies are comfortable with. Personally, I wouldn't move into class III/III+ until I had a solid river roll, but each to their own.


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## intargc (Apr 14, 2011)

Good advice.

Thanks.


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## DanC (Nov 19, 2010)

I think the rivers you paddle on might dictate boat choice. Personally I started on the Ottawa which is basically a 'play' river. I find that generally it's easier to take an experience playboater and teach them how to creek then the other way around. Playboating as mentioned forces you to use good technique or you are upside down. River runners are a bit more forgiving, less edgy and higher in the water but if you have no play around it's not really worth using a playboat. Just my opinion.

Dan Caldwell
Rapid Media TV Guy


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## Hans (Aug 21, 2008)

earthNRG said:


> Playboats have a steeper learning curve, but if you stick with it and learn fast, you'll likely do better in the long run. Unless you have a "go big or go home" attitude, the playboat will likely force you to stay on easier rivers until you have a solid paddling foundation and roll, simply because you won't be comfortable stepping it up. However, if you're easily discouraged, or don't learn quickly, then I would recommend you stick with the river runner.


This was my attitude towards learning, the more difficult the boat, the bigger the learning curve, the faster/better the skills were learned. As far as class of river to start in, maybe look at the consequences factor for eff ups. I'd pick no/low consequence runs at the high end of my abilities, throw myself in & get worked often. Basically that is what most play holes are... low consequences/high thrashing beatdowns & you can learn mad skills quickly. Of course if you want to keep your paddling partners... learn to T-Rescue as well, as if you swim too often & need to have you & your gear pulled out regularly, peeps will start "being busy" when you want to paddle.

have fun, get worked, have more fun! 

ps one thing i see often & makes it really obvious it's a new paddler, is barely touching the surface of the water with a paddle blade running a rapid --> envietable flip to follow --> 50/50 on the swim. sink that blade in the water... get your wrist wet (you're not going to melt no matter how sweet your grandmother thinks you are) & learn how much stability you gain/have from your blade. the opposite is true for rolls... punch your sweeping hand outta the water, feel the air, then start your roll.


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## sealion (Oct 13, 2008)

Will you be able to keep the diesel? If so, maybe go more playful in your boat choice, and play with the play boat and run rivers with the diesel. One of my boating buddies has been using the diesel for 5 or 6? years. He owns a boat shop and can paddle anything he wants, and sticks with the diesel. Go figure.


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## jonnynails (Jul 4, 2011)

I'm really new to paddling as well. Have a Jackson Super hero that I've been learning in on class II/III water. I'm probably not ready for the playboat skill wise, but I said what the hell and jumped right in as it looks fun and I saw myself wanting to get into it. Found a great deal on a used Jackson superstar. I've got a decent combat roll = really only miss when I get tired. Anyway, the playboat is a lot of fun. It rolls way easier - haven't even come close to missing a roll yet(only had it out twice in low consequence water). Seems like half as much effort as the super hero to roll. It is really unstable though and I had to get used to how far under the rapid it goes compared to the hero. I think it will help you become a better paddler because you can't get sloppy or you will pay for it. I've been getting worked a little and getting lots of roll practice and loving every minute of it.

I'd say if you can keep the Diesel then go for it. Take it in the pool the first day and get used to it. After that find some class II and try it out. Your going to love how easy it is to roll and for me I can really brace in it the way your supposed to with your head/shoulder slapping down in the water. I couldn't brace like that in the hero. Have fun and post pics of your first bow stall!!!!!!!!!


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## MaxInTexas (Jun 28, 2011)

since you are paddling the diesel, you could the w/s fuse a try. I prefer the ez series to the fuse series. Ideally I would look for a used big ez if you are under 220 lbs. Super ez if you are much beter. THe super ez are harder to fine. EZG50 would be good also


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## otis (Oct 6, 2009)

I have a Nomad 8.5 or Jackson Super Star for sale.
chris 720-290-29eight two


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## Anchorless (Aug 3, 2010)

I'm definitely an advocate of getting a solid playboat (Jackson Star, Pyranha Molan, Wavesport ProjectX) and just hammering it out until you figure it out. If you get a solid roll in a playboat, and then learn your edges and balance, take it to some easy waves or a playpark and start figuring out holes... that's the best practice you'll get anywhere. 

Even with a playboat you can learn waves and eddies and get your paddle strokes on a Class II / III-. Once you start stepping up to Class III+/IV I'd look into a better river runner/creeker, but I think learning on Class II with a playboat is just fine. 

Agreed with the above that I wouldn't be running III's until I had a solid roll.


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## DaarrnIt (Aug 3, 2011)

great question, I am living the answer these very days.

I started kayaking 2 years ago in a stubby, and very often I will rent a remix or a hero.

I consider myself capable, but have always heard that I need to learn in a playboat, so this weekend I picked up a freeRide 57 (excellent boat) and boy was I fooling myself.

Point A to B in a river became a whole new ballgame, and it was very apparent that there were skills that were never learned in a river runner, simply because the boat did it for me and I never needed to learn that particular skill.

I highly recommend a river/play boat as it can still get you downriver, but it's a learning experience the whole way. Yes, it may start out feeling unstable compared to that Diesel, but once you learn to stabilize the little boat you can go back to taking a nap in the Diesel

whatever route you go, enjoy!


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