# Liquid Logic's Warranty? Broke my kayak



## idahofloater (Feb 23, 2011)

I wouldn't hold my breath. You might get lucky and there may be a defect in the manufacturing process that LL will honor. I did warranty work for an archery manufacture years ago and it all depended on my boss' mood of the day. Keep a positive energy flow going and maybe karma will help you out. 

LL, WS, and JK are all so hype drivin. They will tell you or do anything to get you to buy thier boats. Even make shit up. I consider any boat from these folks as "buyer beware" and "As is, where is" more so than other companies. These companies make the best boats, but they really don't care much about customer service in the big picture. They will tell you they do, but they don't and given your boat is near end of warranty. They might pro-rate your boat and sell you a hull. But they will tell you your boat was 75% used or something. IMHO

Warranty policies have zero weight on any of my purchases. Tupperware is preaty soild technology these days. just saying.

I have seen pyranha replace an aboused hull for free. And LL replace a 9 month space cadet hull for $400. 

Good luck,


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## pretender (Dec 23, 2008)

I've dealt with LL twice for cracked boats...I went straight to the source and e-mailed LL but I believe they would rather you go through the dealer where you purchased your boat.
Like you I was the original owner and had registered the boats on their site, both boats were less than 1 year old and both times the breakage was NOT a manufacturer's defect, lots and lots of use and some bad luck and both times I paid for a replacement hull and got them in a couple of months time from my first contact with them. With shipping to the west coast it came to $400-$500 per hull.


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## Aroberts (Apr 20, 2009)

Ouch!!!! $400-$500 per hull. 

I had a recent experience breaking a Jackson 4 months ago in the exact same scenerio (bought it new, paddled it for 16 months etc.)and experienced nothing but top notch custmer service.

I'm going to keep it optiomistic and hope LL are in the holiday spirit still


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## okieboater (Oct 19, 2004)

Good luck. My bet is if you are lucky you get a replacement hull, maybe a factory second. So, be sure to save all your existing outfitting including screws and bolts. I have been paddling demo factory seconds mostly used in a dealer's clinics for maybe a season for a number of years now. So far so good. My thoughts being if they last for a season of clinics they are probably ok. New boats are really nice, just priced higher than I am willing to pay in this economy.


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## eklars (Mar 28, 2006)

gotta disagree with idaho. I've warrantied the same original Jackson hull twice, the first time for free, the second time for $100. Each arrived direct to my home within 1 week or contact. You just can't complain about that level of service. Check my past posts for more details if you want them.


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## Anchorless (Aug 3, 2010)

My friends have had great customer service with LL. They know the local rep well so maybe it's that, but from my experience LL and their customer service is solid.


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## caspermike (Mar 9, 2007)

A warranty isn't giving away free shit. If the boat was made with something wrong and wasnt caught during inspection, and possibly baked to long than that's something. To get a warranty over. If you boat bash and abuse your kayak and it breaks than that's your fault not manufacturer. I'll gladly buy replacement shells over used or new boats anyday. You can't expect a kayak company to shell out free hulls to everybody that breaks one. I'm sure you were doing some quality rock boofing most of the Jackson that are warranties were playboats that had manufacturer defects, like a bad bake more than likely. How did you crack your remix


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## Nessy (May 25, 2009)

I broke my Mamba this summer and filed a claim with Dagger. They did not replace my boat. It's really too bad boat makers don't offer a protection plan they way, say, Apple does for the iPhone. I would pay $150 extra for a new boat knowing that I could get a new hull within 24 months of the original purchase for, say, an extra $150 plus shipping on top of the $150 protection plan price.

Also, I'd like to add that Dagger and CKS made no mention of selling me a replacement hull. In fact, all I got from CKS after my claim was rejected was a "$100 in-store discount" offer if I were to buy a replacement boat at full retail. Thanks guys!


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## DoubleYouEss (Oct 4, 2011)

Boat warranties are tricky, I attempted to warranty my Nomad last year (at 12 months and 23 days from purchase). Dagger (Confluence Watersports LLC.) told me that I would be able to get a new boat at a pro rated price of 20% of the cost retail price plus $115 for shipping. I went through my local dealer, signed all the paperwork, left him my cracked boat (minus some outfitting) and went on my way. Once they verified the warranty, and shipped the new boat to the dealer, the guy tacked on some additional fee to make the boat almost $700. 

Liquidlogic has never done me or my paddling group wrong with warranties, they are always prompt with getting us new shells or boats. I will probably never deal with Confluence again after that horrible attempt at a warranty.


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## t up (Dec 11, 2011)

I basicly just did the same thing to my jefe. from what ive read and heard from a friend that owns a shop is were SOL.. he said make a snow sled out of it.


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## caspermike (Mar 9, 2007)

Save the guts and get a new shell a brand new shell fresh out of the oven for less than 500 bones makes a difference when it's shit you can rely on. If you don't want to fork out the cash weld your kayak and try not to complain. I'm on 3rd jefe shell. Can't get a new kayak for the price of two new shells. And once again maybe you should beat the boat if you can't handle the consequence of a broken kayak. Many people sport welded kayaks as their Mank boats that's another idea...


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## t up (Dec 11, 2011)

Honestly that was kind of a joke about turning it into a sled. Caspermike is right in your case just get a new hull, in my case ( broken at the front of the cockpit at 45 degrees). Im in need of a new boat.. Any thoughts on the stomper 90? Or a villan?


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## Nathan (Aug 7, 2004)

Nessy said:


> Also, I'd like to add that Dagger and CKS made no mention of selling me a replacement hull. In fact, all I got from CKS after my claim was rejected was a "$100 in-store discount" offer if I were to buy a replacement boat at full retail. Thanks guys!


Kayak shops like CKS don't sell just shells so it's not really fair to call them out. I know you can get shells from jk and ll. I've had good luck with warrantee issues with jk and pyranha, never owned a ll boat and haven't broke a wave sport (Confluence). This summer I broke a blade on an AT Super Duty (Confluence) that had lifetime warrantee on the shaft and was rejected. The paddle was 6 days old.


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## pretender (Dec 23, 2008)

*Villain*



t up said:


> Honestly that was kind of a joke about turning it into a sled. Caspermike is right in your case just get a new hull, in my case ( broken at the front of the cockpit at 45 degrees). Im in need of a new boat.. Any thoughts on the stomper 90? Or a villan?


After two broken Remixes in just over two years (one broke due to lots and lots of use and the other to a bad swim where the boat went down on it's own through continuous class 3&4 and one big class 5 for well over a mile, also I have no complaint with Liquid Logic warranty and to my mind their warranty is completely fair...not to mention they make great boats boats).
I thought I would try something new and with Jackson's rep for customer service being even better then LL I bought a Crosslink Villain based on warranty alone, and I can't say I made the right choice. It may be a great boat (I haven't spent enough time in it yet to decide) but I hate the outfitting, I know lots of people like it but it's just not for me and every time I'm in it I think "how can I get rid of this thing and get another Remix or a Stomper or a Nomad"
The point being; warranties are important but they ain't everything. 
.


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## GAtoCSU (Apr 18, 2005)

Aroberts said:


> I broke my Remix saturday. I have owned it 16 months (I have my receipt), bought it brand new and registered it with LL. I brought it to my local dealer, we did all the paperwork and now its a wait and see. LL's warranty is very vague so I'm in the dark as to what expect.
> 
> How much does a companies warranty policy weight in when you buy a new boat?
> 
> Thanks,


Buy a welding gun. 16 months is a long time to paddle a plastic kayak and expect a warranty repair for the damage that occurred. I say this as I have personally broke 2 boats in the past. My current boat has 2 fresh welds on it.


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## Nessy (May 25, 2009)

*No shell offer*



Nathan said:


> Kayak shops like CKS don't sell just shells so it's not really fair to call them out. I know you can get shells from jk and ll. I've had good luck with warrantee issues with jk and pyranha, never owned a ll boat and haven't broke a wave sport (Confluence). This summer I broke a blade on an AT Super Duty (Confluence) that had lifetime warrantee on the shaft and was rejected. The paddle was 6 days old.


Yeah, but CKS didn't even bring it up over the phone. They only wanted to sell me a new boat. The guy I spoke with could have said, "One option to buying a new kayak from us for $1000 is to contact Dagger and deal with them directly. They might be willing to sell you a brand new shell for $400 plus shipping. That way you could reuse your existing hardware."


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## peterholcombe (Mar 8, 2006)

idahofloater said:


> LL, WS, and JK are all so hype drivin. They will tell you or do anything to get you to buy thier boats. Even make shit up. I consider any boat from these folks as "buyer beware" and "As is, where is" more so than other companies.
> 
> Good luck,



Jackson Kayak has been simply amazing to deal with on the two boats I have had issues with. The last one was replaced right away when I showed it to EJ at Paddle Fest. Ian at JK has been really helpful also. They really understood the urgency in getting me going again in the peak of the season. I couldn't disagree more with the comment above in regards to Jackson Kayak from my experience.


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## DoubleYouEss (Oct 4, 2011)

FYI, Confluence told me on the phone when I was warrantying my Nomad that they do not sell the hull alone, as it is "unsafe" for them as a retailer.


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## Aroberts (Apr 20, 2009)

The reason I started this thread was to get experiences from people who have went through the LL warranty process before. Their website doesn't say much so that's why I asked. I was hoping to get an idea of what to expect but it sounds like it could any way from a new boat to your SOL.
The fact is I bought this boat brand new. I didn't even get 40 days on the water before it cracked below the seat and most of those days where high water in Idaho. If I got 2 years and/or even 60 days I would weld this boat up and never look back. 

I really like LL and will most likely keep paddling their boats regardless of the outcome. The only thing I can see me doing differently is not buying their boats new. I like to think I am a very level headed buy I completely understand the consumers side as well as the manufacturer's side. 

I'm going to stick to being optimistic and see how the chips fall.


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## DoubleYouEss (Oct 4, 2011)

That's the best way to look at it. If they deny you a warranty, buy a heat gun and welding rods. Liquidlogic has a great how to video on boat welding.


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## idahofloater (Feb 23, 2011)

peterholcombe said:


> Jackson Kayak has been simply amazing to deal with on the two boats I have had issues with. The last one was replaced right away when I showed it to EJ at Paddle Fest. Ian at JK has been really helpful also. They really understood the urgency in getting me going again in the peak of the season. I couldn't disagree more with the comment above in regards to Jackson Kayak from my experience.


I am so glad that you have had positive experiences with JK. You should really consider yourself lucky.


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## caspermike (Mar 9, 2007)

First off I'm still wondering how you broke it. Your kayak isn't going to crack from high water alone. If you are beating your kayak off rocks don't expect a free one. Make sure you don't store your kayaks in the sun or strapped to a car. I also wouldn't consider the option to buy a new shell sol. If you don't buy the new shell it's not there fault you are crying cause you want a free kayak. Not that easy.. How did the kayak crack I've never had a boat crack from just kayaking you have to be rubbing lots of rock...


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## Aroberts (Apr 20, 2009)

caspermike said:


> First off I'm still wondering how you broke it. Your kayak isn't going to crack from high water alone. If you are beating your kayak off rocks don't expect a free one. Make sure you don't store your kayaks in the sun or strapped to a car. I also wouldn't consider the option to buy a new shell sol. If you don't buy the new shell it's not there fault you are crying cause you want a free kayak. Not that easy.. How did the kayak crack I've never had a boat crack from just kayaking you have to be rubbing lots of rock...


Honestly, I don't know how I broke it. I didn't feel any impact but maybe I wasn't concentrating enough on the feel of the boat. Thanks for the physics on how to break a kayak though. You must have gotten LL stock for Christmas as you seem personally invested in my warranty experience. 

I would consider $500 for a new shell SOL when they only last 16 months and less than 40 days. 

Again, I was curious as to what other people's experiences were with LL's warranty policy. I didn’t ask for opinions on what should and what shouldn’t be warranted. Let’s leave that up to the professionals at LL.


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## Anchorless (Aug 3, 2010)

It's a legit question. 

From LL's perspective, I'm sure everyone who somehow damages their boat feel their situation is unique and deserving of warranty repair/replacement. Some are and some aren't. 

Many of us have already stated that LL's customer service is pretty top notch. Since you're in the Boise area I assume you are dealing with Idaho River Sports, correct? They are also pretty top notch, but if you're not getting anywhere with them as if you can speak with the area LL rep (I know him but I'll let you go through the proper channels, in fairness to IRS and him) and see what he can do for you. 

But, if you're a Boise boater than you know damn well how solid LL boats are, as 90% of the boaters here paddle a Remix.


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## caspermike (Mar 9, 2007)

I'm just aware of the warranty process, one because I am a liquidlogic customer first. I've gone thru the warranty multiple times and have dealt with the guys first hand. Number 2 I don't get free kayaks. Not as many people a you think do. Doesn't mean I don't support LL fully. Third your kayak isn't just going to crack homeboy. More than likely it will be 450 plus shipping its just the way it is. And I wouldn't complain if I were you.. If you don't want to pay for new shell buy used. I'm not going listen to some negative rant how you are sol cause you won't fork the doe for something you did. Hence the consequence of a broken kayak. That's life bro hopefully you take the great deal on the new shell and get back out there.

The only way to get a free kayak would be if they messed up making your kayak. But they have outstanding quality control.


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## Aroberts (Apr 20, 2009)

As a Boise boater I do realize how rock solid LL is. That is exactly why I decided to buy one. I'm not bashing on them in the least or ranting about anything. I have no reason to do that. I completely understand the natural of what these boats are put through day in and day out. I'm also not asking for a free kayak and don't expect one. I actually have no idea what to expect as to why I posted this thread. 

When people ask me how I like my Remix I tell them how badass it is and how much I enjoy paddling it. It's a awesome boat and nothing will change my mind on that. I'm not some 13 year old girl who gets pissed off and holds. I respect LL's decisions and won't flame them in the least. That's not how I operate. 

Anyway, it will be intersting to see how this pans out as the options are endless


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## asshole (Sep 6, 2011)

Aroberts said:


> I'm also not asking for a free kayak and don't expect one.


Why not? It's not free you already paid for it when you bought new.

Part of kayaking is hitting a rock here or there and I have seen LL boats as well as just about every other brand crack with limited use. Prijon plastic seems to be much stronger but it cracks too. 
I suggest playing the warranty game. If your warranty is up in a year than take action before it cracks. Take photos of a crack that is the same color as your boat and email it direct to the company. If it gets approved than jump through the rest of the hoops but play the game. That's the whole reason to buy new IMO.


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## idahofloater (Feb 23, 2011)

Aroberts said:


> As a Boise boater I do realize how rock solid LL is. That is exactly why I decided to buy one. I'm not bashing on them in the least or ranting about anything. I have no reason to do that. I completely understand the natural of what these boats are put through day in and day out. I'm also not asking for a free kayak and don't expect one. I actually have no idea what to expect as to why I posted this thread.
> 
> When people ask me how I like my Remix I tell them how badass it is and how much I enjoy paddling it. It's a awesome boat and nothing will change my mind on that. I'm not some 13 year old girl who gets pissed off and holds. I respect LL's decisions and won't flame them in the least. That's not how I operate.
> 
> Anyway, it will be intersting to see how this pans out as the options are endless


Aroberts, see what happens when you post anything that could be seen as negative feed back in any way to to LL, WS, or JK on this forum? 

You get bashed. 

Anyway stay positive and may the river gods bless you with a sweet run in a new boat.


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## KSC (Oct 22, 2003)

I suspect their warranty policy is written with ambiguity by design. I think they usually take care of people whose boats break under reasonable conditions, but not sure what their policy is after a year. I once broke a Jefe hull within a year and they took care of me, although the process took forever and required some prodding on my end. 

This info is good to know before you buy a boat, but in your situation, what else can you do but start the process and find out what they'll offer you?


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## Anchorless (Aug 3, 2010)

I think people just want more information, given the little that has been posted and the experiences most of us have with these brands. I don't think anyone is being overly negative toward Aroberts; just a bit suspicious is all. 

Most of us are protective of LL and JK because more than most they churn out quality products and actually do have a great presence and customer relationship in the industry. LL reps and team members have a significant presence in Idaho during the summer on the North Fork, and are all great people. The Jacksons are who they are been have been solid whenever I've seen them around and their boats are legit... there's just no other way to put it. The proof is in the pudding. 

That's not to say other boats aren't great too. But when you have two of the most popular boats on the market (Remix, Star series) you'll have a variety of experiences; it just happens most of them are positive. 



idahofloater said:


> Aroberts, see what happens when you post anything that could be seen as negative feed back in any way to to LL, WS, or JK on this forum?
> 
> You get bashed.
> 
> Anyway stay positive and may the river gods bless you with a sweet run in a new boat.


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## idahofloater (Feb 23, 2011)

Anchorless said:


> Most of us are protective of LL and JK because more than most they churn out quality products and actually do have a great presence and customer relationship in the industry. LL reps and team members have a significant presence in Idaho during the summer on the North Fork, and are all great people.
> 
> you'll have a variety of experiences; it just happens most of them are positive.


I am really glad that you enjoy the pros in Idaho and that most of your experiences are positive. The last positive experience I had with LL pro boats on Payette SF was just a few months ago to catch the deadwood run off. I was hiking up to skinny dipper for a noon soak and there they were; peeing in the soaking pool and video taping it. They didn't even have the balls to look me in the eye when I asked them WTF! They really are a fun group of thoughtfull people.


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## Anchorless (Aug 3, 2010)

I doubt it would have been the LL group that I know (were there any females in the group?), but even so... it's not like 7/10 people that go hot springing in Idaho aren't disrespectful, belligerent anus discharge anyway. It's why I don't go hot springing unless it's pretty remote. Must be something about alcohol and hot water. 

Every time I've been on the MFSR Loon and Sunflower have been absolute s--tshows with some of the people soaking there, worthy of a GGW collage. So I take it for what it's worth. 

That said, I'm not an apologist for them. If it were the LL group and they were acting like dingleberries, then that's pretty ridiculous.


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## shortbus (Jun 22, 2006)

aroberts-

I don't think a new hull is $500, more like $300+freight. In all fairnes, I work at a boat shop that sells LL. We have only had one hull warranty and we just ordered a replacement and passed on the wholesale cost to the customer, we did not make anything off of it, but lost nothing either, and everybody was happy, hopefully it works out for you.


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## idahofloater (Feb 23, 2011)

Anchorless said:


> I doubt it would have been the LL group that I know (were there any females in the group?), but even so... it's not like 7/10 people that go hot springing in Idaho aren't disrespectful, belligerent anus discharge anyway. It's why I don't go hot springing unless it's pretty remote. Must be something about alcohol and hot water.
> 
> Every time I've been on the MFSR Loon and Sunflower have been absolute s--tshows with some of the people soaking there, worthy of a GGW collage. So I take it for what it's worth.
> 
> That said, I'm not an apologist for them. If it were the LL group and they were acting like dingleberries, then that's pretty ridiculous.


None of them were girls! I didn't know there were many female pros in Idaho. I know Devon out of McCall we grew up together and attended the same school in lewiston. 

It was the group in the newer black bottom fad to white top delivery style van with pictures of yellow LL kayaks on the side. 

Maybe you touched on something. Maybe its not pros that bug me, maybe its the "I'm cool, disrespectful, I don't give a rip, newbe college attitude" that drives me nuts.


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## Aroberts (Apr 20, 2009)

Thanks shortbus,

As for being suspicious, there is nothing to be suspicious about. I told the local dealer exactly what happened and more. I was kayaking in my Remix on saturday. After a rapid I noticed my boat was full of water. I hit the next eddy, got out of my boat and before I had the boat all the way out of the water others noticed a huge crack. I'm assuming its from a rock but I honestly didn't feel it. 

I have lived in Boise for 7 years and have yet to experience skinny dipper. Stories like this is exactly why it doesn't appeal to me. The first turn off for me is the name. I really don't want some old dudes balls floating next to me


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## idahofloater (Feb 23, 2011)

Aroberts said:


> I really don't want some old dudes balls floating next to me


Thats too funny. I get cha, but thats just 25 shorts years before you own a pair old dude balls. LMAO


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## Flying_Spaghetti_Monster (Jun 3, 2010)

New hull is $300 call Obie at legacy, and he will hook you up.


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## Aroberts (Apr 20, 2009)

Flying_Spaghetti_Monster said:


> New hull is $300 call Obie at legacy, and he will hook you up.


I just got quoted $350 plus shipping so $400-$500 will be the total. I am dissappointed but after starting this thread its what I expected. 

As of right now i'm not sure what I am going to do. 

Thanks for all your input


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## biggb (Aug 1, 2011)

dry your tears and stop crying for LL casper mike...they are all grown up and can take care of themselves. Just like all manufacturers, their boats break too. 

ARoberts problem is no one makes a boat big/strong enough to properly float a 6'4", 230 lb guy.


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## caspermike (Mar 9, 2007)

biggb said:


> dry your tears and stop crying for LL casper mike...they are all grown up and can take care of themselves. Just like all manufacturers, their boats break too.
> 
> ARoberts problem is no one makes a boat big/strong enough to properly float a 6'4", 230 lb guy.


LL is outstanding they are hooking him up with a shell for same price as everybody else and it's not good enough for him. That's cool nobody is crying except Roberts and LL makes a big stomper and the remix for his size of people which should be fine... I've seen bigger dudes in them. With enough overnight gear for a week. LL is good shit always you can't buy a used boat for 450.


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## thecraw (Oct 12, 2003)

For anyone that is interested... Here is JK's warranty for ww and fishing. This is in print on the website under "4 Owners" on the main page. Importantly our warranty is not only for original owners, but anyone that owns a JK that has never been warranted before, and breaks in the warranty period. This includes demos that are purchased from our dealers at the end of the year. Demo's start with year two warranty based on the dealers being required to hold on to them for the first year. 




Jackson Kayak (JK) warrants to the current owner, upon proof of purchase by the original owner this Jackson Kayak to be free from any defects in material or workmanship, and to conform to the product specifications set forth in this owner’s manual if the product is used and cared for in the according to the instructions furnished, for three years, as outlined below, from the date of purchase by the original owner.
The warranty period for boats sold by Jackson Kayak as “demos” begins when the boat is first shipped from Jackson Kayak.
*Hull Warranty:*


First year Free hull replacement (or 20% of MSRP for complete boat)
Second Year 20% MSRP for hull (or 40% of MSRP for complete boat)
Third Year 30% of MSRP for hull (or 60% of MSRP for complete boat)
 *Outfitting warranty:*


First year: Free replacement
Second year: 30% of MSRP
Third year: 60% of MSRP
 Customer is responsible for all shipping and handling fees to and from Jackson Kayak’s manufacturing facility or some other place which Jackson Kayak may designate.
This warranty is void if the boat is altered structurally or subjected to stresses beyond the physical limits of the boat’s material. The warranty does not cover abrasion or abnormal use.


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## pretender (Dec 23, 2008)

thecraw said:


> Jackson Kayak (JK) warrants to the current owner, upon proof of purchase by the original owner this Jackson Kayak to be free from any defects in material or workmanship, and to conform to the product specifications set forth in this owner’s manual if the product is used and cared for in the according to the instructions furnished, for three years, as outlined below, from the date of purchase by the original owner.
> The warranty period for boats sold by Jackson Kayak as “demos” begins when the boat is first shipped from Jackson Kayak.
> *Hull Warranty:*
> 
> ...


Craw, this is the warranty for the new linear plastic boats, right? Does the original warranty posted for the cross-link still apply to them?


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## shonuffkayak (Feb 2, 2011)

caspermike said:


> LL is outstanding they are hooking him up with a shell for same price as everybody else and it's not good enough for him. That's cool nobody is crying except Roberts and LL makes a big stomper and the remix for his size of people which should be fine... I've seen bigger dudes in them. With enough overnight gear for a week. LL is good shit always you can't buy a used boat for 450.


I must say LL has an outstanding product and any dealings I've had with them is outstanding as well. I would recommend them to anyone. My guess whoever is bitching about them hasn't really felt with them.


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## thecraw (Oct 12, 2003)

Pretender... Yes. This warranty that you bought your boat with is not changing. 

I hope everyone understands the cost of the outfitting. Regardless what brand you are talking about. Outfitting is a huge cost to warranty along w shell if it was only a shell that broke in the first place. There is a balance there, meaning if for some reason your boat breaks in the first month or two after purchase, we don't feel the consumer should have to rebuild the outfitting and we may send a completely built boat for that reason, but that is a judgement call that Ian (warranty) has to make case by case. 
WW kayaking is a rather rough activity and bottom line the boats (and all gear for that matter) take a significant amount of abuse. Most independent brands do the best they can for the community and are also pushing designs and the sport in general. 
I personally feel that everything I invest my hard earned dollars in should be backed by the manufacturer and that a stronger warranty is a major consideration into my purchasing decisions. Do the math of total ownership cost, talk w others about their experiences w a particular brands warranty, but as mentioned earlier, it all comes down to whether the boat develops your confidence. The wrong boat, no matter how strong the warranty, invites more risk to your confidence in progressing and possibly injury.


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## Aroberts (Apr 20, 2009)

From my personal experience Jackson's warranty is far superior to LL's. 

I had a 16 month old Monstar Elite I bought brand new. I had 3 times the days on the Monstar than the Remix. Granted the Monstar never made it on the NF Payette but I ran alot of rivers in it at various flows. I cracked my thigh brace. The local dealer and I took pics and sent them off. 2 days later they stated they would send me a fully outfitted Monstar Elite for $0. Not only that but they didn't charge me for shipping. 

Jackson's warranty might have been different if I had a Villian/Zen and broke it the same way as the Remix but at this point its very hard to not lean that way and take my chances.

I think we all know how my LL warranty experience went


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## caspermike (Mar 9, 2007)

You are comparing playboats to creek boats and something that was taken down the north fork. Those boys aren't idiots as a boat doesn't just brake itself, specially after being used for 16 months prior. If you put a death scratch in your hull than it cracked from cold water rock bashing they shouldn't have to give you a free kayak it wasn't a manufacturers defect you used the kayak for 16 months. If you can't handle a broken kayak than take better care of them... As far as Jackson is concerned sweet man, but don't expect LL to have a bunch of kayaks laying around in backstock. LL won't send you something you don't want you pick your color that's why it takes so long cause of the back order cause everybody knows its good shit.. LL is gonna hook up a shell for basically cost. I'd take it you can get another for same cost after that three new kayaks for less than the price of two.. I guess it's not free though but you are paying for what you get. Sorry you personally feel you had a bad experience but it's WW kayaking it's not snowboarding or backcountry.com

I am pleased as well as hundreds of other kayakers due to the fact it's product you can count on. Outstanding customer service cause Obie is the shit. They know how the boats are being used they aren't stupid. If you need help welding it back together give a holler. LL is super easy to weld cause it's not crosslink
Like you said you took it down north fork what do you expect to happen


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## Aroberts (Apr 20, 2009)

Thanks for everyone's input, even you CasperMike 

I'll be stopping by the local dealer and ordering my new hull today. 

One thing I wish they would do is give a guy a buy back option for his old hull. I would love to keep that hull & weld it so I don't have to worry about breaking another boat on the NF. I understand why they don't but I can also see a big advantage for both parties if they would. Just a thought.


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## eklars (Mar 28, 2006)

that's a weird policy. I've only warrantied from Jackson, but they require you to mail in a 12" square from the hull. I kept the rest of the hull and its a sweet planter in the yard.


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## Aroberts (Apr 20, 2009)

eklars said:


> that's a weird policy. I've only warrantied from Jackson, but they require you to mail in a 12" square from the hull. I kept the rest of the hull and its a sweet planter in the yard.


They have the same policy as Jackson requiring the broken area to be cut out. I was stating I wish I had the option to buy the broken boat before it was cut into pieces. The reason I own a Remix is for the NF and the NF is boat abuse so I would prefer to take my welded Remix down the NF versus a brand new Remix.


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## KSC (Oct 22, 2003)

The boat destruction policy is a shame. I thought boating companies were supposed to be environmentally conscious. Isn't it much better to keep using a boat as long as possible by welding it rather than putting it into the trash heap. I guess if they allowed that, your existing boat would be spared abuse and last longer therefore delaying the purchase of your next boat. Along the same lines as why they don't just use stronger plastic to begin with. 

Anyway, my 2 cents from lots of shuttle time talking about broken boats and warranties is that nobody seems to ever complain about Jackson warranties. Other manufactures elicit mixed results with the exception of Prijon because nobody can break their boats.


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## caspermike (Mar 9, 2007)

I know part of liquidlogics quality control is done using pieces of the cockpit that's cut out. You can tell how the boat was baked which I think is bad ass.. Smart thinking on rewelding the remix I took my jefe which had been welded once for big timber used for many laps than rewelded it for the Clark's fork box trip; pretty much welded three cracks up and taped both sides with gorilla tape. As long as your welds are good your boat should stand up.. Shark tooth rocks are nasty and will put a death scratch in your boat..


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## FatmanZ (Sep 15, 2004)

Interesting comment about the "scratch of death". I put several in my SuperFun over a couple years of low water abuse and thought for sure they would turn into cracks as some were deep. Mid summer during year four I found myself with wayyy too much water in the boat. I figured it would be one of the death scratches - but the 3 different cracks were no where near the death scratches. Instead I was scratching my head trying to figure out why one day it was fine, the next day it wasn't - during a time of year when the water was high and rocks were hard to find. With plenty of low water water abuse (at 250+ lbs - and the rocks just find me all the time) I was amazed the kayak held up as long as it did.


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## Aroberts (Apr 20, 2009)

The boat has been ordered. 

I wanted to thank Idaho River Sports and Liquid Logic for working with me on this and getting me taken care . They both went out of thier way to make things right. That goes a long way with me. 

Now hopefully Idaho gets some snow pack so a guy can kayak this year


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## Aroberts (Apr 20, 2009)

Crack #2, glad I wasn't in my 3 month old replacement Remix as I guarantee it would have broke. My weld on crack #1 is holding up well (knock on wood). 

This is the exact reason I spent extra $ to get a full replacement boat. It's nice to have a beater boat to keep welding. It saves LL & me money as well and the hassle.


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## caspermike (Mar 9, 2007)

when they crack once usually means they are pretty much done. you can almost always garantee more cracks after a first one appears.. as long as its a different shell its all good you can easily swap the guts in a couple minutes..dont really need two sets of outfitting even though that does make it extremely easier! 

are you stoked overall?


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## Aroberts (Apr 20, 2009)

I totally understand what you are saying but this was a huge hit on a very sharp rock. My new Remix would have broke guarentee'd. 

Why keep breaking new boats on a local road side run when I break broken boats. Way easier to take an hour, weld it and be done vs dealing with warranty. 

It's a good feeling to laugh it off and not have to spend additional money & time. With a little bituthene I was able to finish my run.


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## caspermike (Mar 9, 2007)

hell yeah new boats are rad but broken boats are clutch


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## Aroberts (Apr 20, 2009)

I'm stoked and think I have the perfect set up now. The new one will only get used on self support and out of town trips. If its a local road side run the welded boat will get the abuse. 

Plus I'll be a expert at welding boats soon.


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## caspermike (Mar 9, 2007)

thats a good skill to have even better to have a boat that can be welded. gotta be the worst thing about road side runs, the sharp rocks that you cant always help avoiding, hate the ones that look like good boofs, and you can feel the boat bend around it


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## elcaposwimteam (May 16, 2009)

I am glad you were able to resolve your issue with LiquidLogic. 
For future reference to those that have Mank boats or boats that need welding: Theres this company called Rec Repair that makes self adhering strips of plastic specifically designed to repair kayaks. It looks like a strip of plastic but when it is heated it becomes as malable as tape and is really durable. We have a couple of pieces on a cracked Jefe that are holding up superbly. They even have an "onwater" repair kit complete with an MRE heating pack so you can literally repair your boat on the banks of the river.


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## afaust (Jun 14, 2010)

link?


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## elcaposwimteam (May 16, 2009)

Google


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## Aroberts (Apr 20, 2009)

Rec'Repair

"Bituthene" is very effective as well. You might try googling Bituthene Mastic. It's hard to find and I'm still on a mission to find it. A buddy had some on sat when I cracked my boat. I emptied the water out of my boat, slapped a piece on the outside and inside and finished my run. It adhears to a wet boat so no need to dry it off. I look at this stuff as a must have for multi day boat repair kit. The only knock I can see is its a bitch to remove if its been on there for any lenght of time.


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