# Creek Safety Kit- What's in yours?



## Meng (Oct 25, 2003)

So.....

What's in your ultimate creek safety kit?


----------



## climbhoser (Apr 12, 2005)

Wasit throwbag; in-boat throwbag; pin kit including two light pulleys, four prusiks (two long, two short), four locking Omega D's, four webbing pieces (five foot, 2-ten footers, twenty footer); breakdown paddle; duct tape by the oodles; extra foam; hiking shoes or Chacos; Extra downy fleece getup in a drybag including socks; waterproof matches; small baggie of dry starter tinder (when you boat the NW you know this is a good thing); whistle; knife; folding saw; extra NRS cam strabs for holding things together...

If you are in the right area a rappel rig is useful, too. With a spectra bag, a harness, an ATC or figure 8 and a locking'biner you can get tons done. Be sure to clip your boat to your belay loop and not to the harness proper.

First aid kit: Sam splint, CPR mask, occlusive dressing, cravats galore, gauze, tape galore-duct and medical and curlex, iodine, advil and percoset, epi-pens, neosporin, burn salve, space blanket or two-maybe a bivy sack if it's winter or early spring, iodine tablets for drinking water

DON'T FORGET THE ENERGY BARS/PACKETS

And, actually, one of the things I got into doing on longer trips is to bring a small canister stove in a drybag and a pot. When it's a long, wet day and you have a cup of tea to relax at lunch or some ramen it makes it really nice. Yeah, a fire on the side of the river works just as well, granting you can get one started even if it's raining and it's worth it to you given time constraints, but the stove is really simple and nice to have if you can fit it in the boat. 

I also take packets of Emergen-C. One of the tricks I learned mountain guiding was that often times when people are bonking they're just low on electrolytes. Boil a pot of water with two Emergen-C packets and have 'em slurp it down and it can really do the trick. Stuff is AWESOME!

I often think that the epic prevention kit can be whittled down to just a basic un-pin and fix kit and you can avoid most problems. Yeah, the cut you got on your face from that rock might get infected, but you take that risk, eh?


----------



## gh (Oct 13, 2003)

damn...i need to boat with you


----------



## climbhoser (Apr 12, 2005)

He did say ultimate.



climbhoser said:


> Wasit throwbag; in-boat throwbag;


Ever been in a siteation where your buddy boats ahead of you, pulls into an eddy below a hole and you end up stuck in the hole unable to escape and you end up swimming and he's desperately trying to pop his skirt and reach for the bag? I have, and it sucks, so a waist bag is well worth it. So is having an extra, long standard bag.



climbhoser said:


> pin kit including two light pulleys, four prusiks (two long, two short), four locking Omega D's, four webbing pieces (five foot, 2-ten footers, twenty footer);


I took a SWR course with a guy that thought pulleys were overkill and you only needed a couple of 'biners. He's probably right, but I like having the pulleys along anyways, and the little ones take up minor space. We all know what the rest of the stuff is for.




climbhoser said:


> breakdown paddle; duct tape by the oodles;


Obvious again...paddles break or get let go of. Helmets break, skirts tear and duct tape and elbow pads can make awesome emergency helmets (thanks to the Cobra crew in Steamboat for your story on the Elk).



climbhoser said:


> extra foam;


Ever had your hip pads float away in a nasty swim? I have, and it sucks boating down the river in a modified bath tub.



climbhoser said:


> hiking shoes or Chacos;


For the inevitable long hike out.



climbhoser said:


> Extra downy fleece getup in a drybag including socks; waterproof matches; small baggie of dry starter tinder (when you boat the NW you know this is a good thing);


When your boat breaks and you're miles out and you're soaking wet you'll be glad you have something warm and DRY to put on...and also start a fire. The fleece might be the bulkiest thing I carry, but it's many uses make it worth it. Also nice when the weather turns bad and your little polypro getup under your drysuit(top) isn't doing it anymore...or you realize the water is just plain colder than you thought.



climbhoser said:


> whistle; knife; folding saw; extra NRS cam strabs for holding things together...


Rivers are loud, skirts snag, strainers happen to good drops and boats crack. I seriously saw a guy fix a three foot piton crack that ran lengthwise down his boat with three cam strabs and gobs of duct tape. Finished the rest of the day in style!



climbhoser said:


> If you are in the right area a rappel rig is useful, too. With a spectra bag, a harness, an ATC or figure 8 and a locking'biner you can get tons done. Be sure to clip your boat to your belay loop and not to the harness proper.
> 
> First aid kit: Sam splint, CPR mask, occlusive dressing, cravats galore, gauze, tape galore-duct and medical and curlex, iodine, advil and percoset, epi-pens, neosporin, burn salve, space blanket or two-maybe a bivy sack if it's winter or early spring, iodine tablets for drinking water


I am, after all, an EMT and an ex-ski patroller. Ask the other patrollers here how nasty it can get fast and how nice it is to have old reliable in your stern bag. Oh, and iodine tablets...I survived a climbing week in the Wind Rivers with iodine tablets and nothing else. If you really wantd to make it a survival kit you could throw in some fishing hooks, a baggie of powerbait and a couple hundred feet of 10 weight line...takes up almost no space at all.



climbhoser said:


> DON'T FORGET THE ENERGY BARS/PACKETS


We all get hungry. Even on short trips when you're exerting yourself hard you can get surprisingly hungry. Burning food and sugars can also help heat the body in the cold and potentially stave off hypothermia/shock.



climbhoser said:


> And, actually, one of the things I got into doing on longer trips is to bring a small canister stove in a drybag and a pot. When it's a long, wet day and you have a cup of tea to relax at lunch or some ramen it makes it really nice. Yeah, a fire on the side of the river works just as well, granting you can get one started even if it's raining and it's worth it to you given time constraints, but the stove is really simple and nice to have if you can fit it in the boat.


There's no real justification/need for this. It is a true extravagance. However, when you whip out the hot tea on a 12 hour boating day in a really far out canyon your buddies will promise to buy you heaven, guaranteed. A Jetboil is tiny, and the pot doubles as a container for holding things like first aid necessities or elements of your pin kit or, heck, your socks and fleece shirt! 



climbhoser said:


> I also take packets of Emergen-C. One of the tricks I learned mountain guiding was that often times when people are bonking they're just low on electrolytes. Boil a pot of water with two Emergen-C packets and have 'em slurp it down and it can really do the trick. Stuff is AWESOME!


I saw many a flatlander come to life at 12,500 feet after bonking hard enough to convince them they would not be summitting that day. It's like a second wind in a pouch. Most people don't realize how many electrolytes they need and that they also need it for the body to utilize water effectively. Without it water just sits outside the cells...put in a little electrolyte stew and the cells start drinking it up!



climbhoser said:


> I often think that the epic prevention kit can be whittled down to just a basic un-pin and fix kit and you can avoid most problems. Yeah, the cut you got on your face from that rock might get infected, but you take that risk, eh?


This statement was to imply that yeah, an ultimate creekin' kit is just that, ultimate, but is in no ways the necessity. You have no idea how many days I've headed out with a buddy to scout a river and some drops and we end up putting in for a four hour gnar fest replete with bad swims, nasty pins and cuts and bruises. Those are the days you rethink what you should ALWAYS have in your car for "just in cases" as you run the steeps with little more than a single throwbag between two of you and a couple of 'biners and some webbing for anchors. 

As an example, we had a day during flood in the UP where we went to run a creek that had been run a sum total of once before. Actually, we started by going to scout it (hike it with boats) and we had about two hours before dark. It's not long, but the put in and take out are far enough from each other that a hike out would be miserable. We had one bag and I had two 'biners (luckily) and a five footer of webbing still in my vest. The run was *mostly* uneventful until we got into the thick of it. It goes V, V, V+, V, V+. We were so honed in on the drops (after deciding to do it) we barely noticed the time when it started getting dark. We were three drops from the take out when we noticed. One bad swim by my buddy led to a really cut badly leg. We didn't have much, so just kept going. We were in a deep gorge and the only way to hike it would be back up the creek, so we just kept on it. Last drop before the mile long hike out and I took a really bad swim. Hit a sieve, boat pinned and I grabbed the rope in the nick of time. Paddle was 15 feet under water in the sieve...minimal pin kit with a trucker's hitch got the boat out, and I hand paddled the last 1/4 mile to the take out. It was pitch black (which reminds me about how useful a headlamp is for the "ultimate creekin' kit") when we took out and started the hike under the stars.

We were cold, hurt, rattled and jazzed on what we had done, but we realized really quickly that there are roadside park and hucks and then there are creeks in boonie country. 

Granted, I drive a CFS and have the room to take the ultimate kit, but I think it's worth stuffing a lot of that in there for those long days. I know that years after my learning experience and the value of my ultimate kit has provided me with enough comfort to make me think about even more (could I fit my Crazy Creek in there, too?). I know I read about the 1 day descent of the Stikine where they took a long a starter log soaked with gas and had a quickie bonfire...stuff like that can make or break a big trip, even if only a day trip.

Anyways, that's enough, you guys get the idea.


peas


----------



## Gary E (Oct 27, 2003)

LOL, Jessssus! WOW, climb you haul the shit around. That's more than I take to upper cherry or middle kings.

Day of creeking- 2 pulleys, 3 prusiks, 2 5ft 8mm rope tied in prusik, waist throw bag, dry bag, baggie of cut up bike tubes and lighter, wp matches,gum, duct tape and an apple. Over nights different stories and depends the trip and climate. For instance no need for bivy in cali in june july, ect..

Gary


----------



## Caspian (Oct 14, 2003)

Whatever. All I need is my GPS.

Gary I take it the tubes are for fixing cracks - what's your routine for that?

I'm actually more curious to know what people carry playboating than creeking. We all know creeking requires more thought and care, but what about play runs? I stopped using floatation in my playboat years ago to improve the balance when cartwheeling, but I tend to carry hand paddles and Chacos. Throw rope on the PFD and a few locking biners - that's all I tend to take on play runs. Probably ought to re-evaluate that.


----------



## climbhoser (Apr 12, 2005)

On a play run it depends...play runs can actually be just as remote as a creek run if you think about it...it's just the style of the river that differs. That said, I don't generally take as big a kit for play runs and for a couple of good reasons:

What do I need a saw for on established play runs like the Gorge? Impromptu and unplanned strainers are few and far between on play runs. I also don't generally need the backup fleece because I generally run creeks in the cold spring. Think UP in April when you're running creeks in 30 degree weather with four feet of snow on the ground. That's creek season, not playboat season. 

My un-pin kit is usually smaller. I feel I can get by with two 'biners and a piece of tubular webbing 10' long and a trusty bag. Always have a river knife. I like a good first aid kit, and take that on play runs...my first aid kit includes the Emergen-C and iodine tablets for water. I don't need a stove, and I take a nalgene wrapped with many feet of duct tape. 

I also don't usually take a breakdown paddle, but probably more for space saving reasons than overkill reasons. They are nice to have in a pinch. I always bring my Chacos in my stern.

No need for a rappel rig, still always have some WP matches, even on a play run, it's part of my first aid kit, as is a space blanket. 

So, much less on a play run. 

Also, I don't get how flotation unbalances your boat for cartwheels. Bladder or not it's air trapped in your boat. In a bladder it's just sectioned. I carry a small stern bag.

Also, I like having a waist bag for creeking or running anything big, but for playboating I hate having it on my person. So, I don't take the waist bag, but sometimes I think I should. Running something like the numbers it can be nice just to make sure your buddy isn't going to have a long swim. 

So, to sum it up:
Light unpin kit-two 'biners and some webbing
throwbag
Chacos
First aid kit including WP matches, Emergen-C and a space blanket
River knife
Water
Maybe some energy bars or gu
Small stern bag

Now, if it's park and play all this stuff stays in the truck!


----------



## Caspian (Oct 14, 2003)

climbhoser said:


> Also, I don't get how flotation unbalances your boat for cartwheels. Bladder or not it's air trapped in your boat. In a bladder it's just sectioned.


That's what I thought before I tried it. I had a friend who said it made a difference so I tried it and it did. Of course playboats were longer so the floatation weighed more, and modern boats have less swing weight. Might not make so much of a difference now that I am a better playboater but even then I wasn't swimming out of my playboat so it didn't matter really. I know it sounds kinda loony and I thought so too until I tried it. Not something to do until you know you aren't going to yard sale, or your friends will be pissed.


----------



## iliketohike (Nov 29, 2006)

don't forget ganja

and i like how climbhoser reminds us to leave the safety equipment in the truck when playboating. I want to see the loops with the kit in the boat and without.

but seriously, his final summary seems pretty good. I don't have all that stuff, but a few of the people I boat with do, and maybe someday when I get a job I'll have it all too. For now I'll follow those that do. And I must say how impressed I am with the extremely detailed post. 

I think the Deputizer is stoked safety equipment was around last week.


----------



## &d (Apr 28, 2006)

iliketohike said:


> don't forget ganja
> 
> I want to see the loops with the kit in the boat and without.


hmm, anti-thruster, it sort of makes sense, throw some weights in the bow and stern and get the ends deeper

I like my arcteryx shell for emergency gear, it takes up virtually no space, its coated with super micro fleece.

I am having a hard time imagining why someone would need prusseks and loops of webbing, when you need to tie some knots, and you have a rope otherwise, doesn't a flat or circular prussik rope equally well?


----------



## IkayakNboard (May 12, 2005)

&d said:


> I am having a hard time imagining why someone would need prusseks and loops of webbing, when you need to tie some knots, and you have a rope otherwise, doesn't a flat or circular prussik rope equally well?


Webbing is the fastest (and incredibly strong) way to get an anchor point...be it around a tree or a boulder, you don't want to cut your long rope to set up an anchor point with a pully/biner to run the rest of the rope through (unless you have to). Takes more time, and you loose rope length. Prusseks are used for pulling on the rope. When you have a taught length of rope and you need two or three people to pull on it, unpinning a boat that has over 2,000 lbs of pressure holding it against a rock, having some prusseks to the line make it much easier to pull. You definately don't want to tie knots in your line to pull on (obviously you couldn't once taught anyway)...it weakens the rope and they wouldn't go through a pully/biner (if that's what you meant by "you need to tie some knots").

Take a SWR course. They will show you how to use all the gear mentioned above in a rescue situation.


----------



## climbhoser (Apr 12, 2005)

The guy I took my SWR course from, and I mentioned this above, didn't believe prusiks were necessary. If you have a spectra bag you can easily tie a trucker's hitch in it and not compromise the weight and use that instead of a prusik.

The main problem with that is that it doesn't move like a prusik will. So, when you're taking in 3 feet of rope for every 1 your boat moves you realize very quickly that your Z-drag uses all it's space and you need to reset your hitch. With a prusik you can just slide it down. With a trucker's hitch you have to tie the system off, find a way to take some weight of the main line and retie the hitch way down...no good.

In my "ultimate" kit I like to carry four prusiks because they take up minor space, prusiks break, and cordage is always nice to have an abundance of. 

The webbing is, of course, for anchors. I don't see any way around that one, really, short of carrying some nuts, but that's just stoopid.


----------



## iliketohike (Nov 29, 2006)

amen. webbing is essential. I wouldn't even know how to start setting up an anchor point without it. I know how to, but it is no where near as fast as girth hitching a tree or chock, and from what I can imagine, if you need a z-drag for rescue, you need it 5 minutes ago.


----------



## deepsouthpaddler (Apr 14, 2004)

Good discussion. In addition to the standard it, I have iodine water purification tablets, an emergency shelter bag, and a headlamp for hikeout, overnight situations. These could also be of use to an injured boater waiting for help to arrive.

As for the anchors, I have two webbing slings. One is the perfect size to rig a sit harness with for extractions, or rappels.

Also, even though hoser calls it stupid, I put a single climbing chock in my kit that looked like it would cover the largest variety of rock crevices. It's small, super light, and when there are no trees or good rocks (or they aren't in the right places), it might come in handy. The whole kit is about the size of a canteloupe with first aid, pin kit, headlamp, etc. 

The kit is probably a bit of overkill, but I'd rather be over prepared every day, than underprepared one day.


----------



## Livingston (Jan 8, 2004)

Weed and Condoms


----------



## Ture (Apr 12, 2004)

One thing I learned in a SWR class that I really liked was "keep your pin kit on your body". This advice helped my Z-drag my own boat out from under a log once.

I lost my first pin kit that I kept in my boat. If you keep it on your body then you are forced to think hard about how much crap you really want to bring with you because nobody wants dead weight in their PFD pocket. It helps you to keep your gear simple and easy to reach which I think is good in an emergency when you only have seconds to react. 

My pin kit is locking biners, a single pulley (I want to add one more), a long web strap (around my waist with a locking biner) and a few loops of cord to tie prussiks with (and I forgot how to tie them when I had to do a real Z-drag last year so I need to practice). I also carry a pair of tibloc ascenders because I can set up a Z-drag super fast with those things and they are super small and light, but I have heard they can cause the rope to snap under a lot of tension so I'm considering moving away from those...but I keep them in case my brain freezes and I can't set up a Z-drag any other way.

I like the idea of a small flashlight or strobe for the walk out. That is definitely something you would want on your body as opposed to in a bag in your boat that has gone down the river. Same thing for a lighter or matches.


----------



## Caspian (Oct 14, 2003)

deepsouthpaddler said:


> I put a single climbing chock in my kit that looked like it would cover the largest variety of rock crevices.


Have always tied off to a Chouinard Stopper when having lunch in the Room of Doom (in raft, not kayak, obviously).

I have Tiblocs and prussiks in my kit, but I've always wondered if they might not shear the wrong rope too. The few times I've used them for boat recovery, they have been great, but I think I would use a prussik if it was a rescue situation.


----------



## climbhoser (Apr 12, 2005)

I hear ya, Ture...

My SWR guy who is devoutly against pulleys and prusiks also says carry it in your vest. He carries three locking D's, two five footers of webbing and, even though he never uses it, a single prusik. That way it's not stuck in your boat when you swim and it gets pinned.

My opinion is that's why EVERYONE has a pin kit with them. Simple is nice, but I've seen boats so badly pinned that the only way to get to them is with a Tefler Lower and a W-Drag, taking multiple pulleys and anchors.

As for not taking a nut...Did you know the ethic in the Frankenjura is to not use nuts while climbing but knotted slings instead? AND they climb barefoot, which is irrelevant, but the point is that a knotted sling can do just as much as a nut. Also, what size nut should I take? An RP? A #4? Or a #13? Why not just take my whole rack? 

I know my kit is overkill, but I, too, draw the line at sensible somewhere. Never heard of a Tibloc snapping the rope under tension, but that may be because of the rope being a small, static. I'm used to seeing them with dynamic ropes in simul-climbing or rescue situations. Pruisiks are slower, but work so well...when in doubt the Kleimheist is a solid friction hitch, too...just wrap the cord on the rope and tie off...it does it in a pinch. 

Oh yeah, don't forget the chainsaw


----------



## Caspian (Oct 14, 2003)

#00 RP with a Screamer.


----------



## gh (Oct 13, 2003)

The Tibloc abraids the rope and weakens it over time. Dont believe it would snap it. Seems to be a good tool for the job.


----------



## iliketohike (Nov 29, 2006)

yeah they are awesome for emergency use. But not for all the time if you pay for your cord, methinks. But prusik is more versitile. You can use them as runners if you buy the right stuff. Combine them to sling things...But if you got's tons of money, why not got tybloc, I bet they are actually close to the same weight. But can use a prussik without a biner, whereas the tybloc needs a biner to function, =more wieght. 

hey anyone wanna go ride bikes...


----------



## brendodendo (Jul 18, 2004)

For my raft I keep 2 throw bags on the boat (1 spectra and 1 poly) and a bagged flipline (DRE, twice knotted so it will not come out with out being pulled on). I also have a spectra waist bag on me. On my PFD I keep 2 omega ovals and 1 locking D. In my kit I have a 50 meter 11mil static in a bag. I also have 1 petzl fixe pulley and 1 mini traxion (pulley and tibloc in 1). I also have 6 more D biners and 2 locking D's. 1 figure 8 device. 4 prussic loops (2 4mil and 2 6 mil) <prussics should be 40 to 60% diameter of haul line>. 1 50ft 1in webbing, 1 15ft 1in webbing, 2 8ft 1in webbing and 2 5ft 1in webbing. 

This is a large setup and fits in a medium dry bag. This does not include the first aid kit that I carry as well. This is my large kit... I scale it down depending on what I am running and with whom. 

I have read that the traxion is not ideal, but find that it is small and can be used as a pully if nothing else. see this thread.


----------



## Warren (Dec 28, 2003)

*Patch Kit*

Now on the long or commiting days I paddle with a 9x9 piece of Bituthane (Ice & Water Shield) in a ziploc bag. Don't leave it in the boat as summer heat will do a number on it. Just throw it in for the run. Saved my butt on the Big South when I split my boat half way in. Random addition by another boater to his boat the day before. Thanks Clay! Not a save all but applied to a dry boat and left to adhere for a bit the patch will get you down.


----------



## Waterwindpowderrock (Oct 11, 2003)

Warren said:


> Now on the long or commiting days I paddle with a 9x9 piece of Bituthane (Ice & Water Shield) in a ziploc bag. Don't leave it in the boat as summer heat will do a number on it. Just throw it in for the run. Saved my butt on the Big South when I split my boat half way in. Random addition by another boater to his boat the day before. Thanks Clay! Not a save all but applied to a dry boat and left to adhere for a bit the patch will get you down.



I was just going to say don't forget the bitch! If you're doing on the river fixes then having a piece of shammy & a lighter in the patch kit helps make a strong permanent patch on the fly. I keep the bitch in a small drybag even in my playboat. Now that I think about it I never even take that bag or my hand paddles out anymore even when I'm playboating.


----------



## Chip (Apr 7, 2007)

*Don't forget the chainsaw?*

Actually, on trips where wood hazards are common, I carry one of those cheapo pruning saws that folds up (wood handles swell & crack— get plastic). Running the Escalante (UTAH) in 2005, I cut through a sweeper that caught our biggest boat (we had Pack Cats, an IK and a Jack's Cutthroat, which got snarled), and cleaned up some ugly logjams. (The BLM was cutting russian olives lower down and heaving 'em into the channel— fun.) 

Chip


----------



## climbhoser (Apr 12, 2005)

Chip,

I have one of those, too...if they're the same. Mine's about 10" long folded, and I picked it up at Gart Sports years ago when they still sold hunting gear. It was originally used to get through the breastbone on elk when cleaning them, but became a sturdy utensil for impromptu cleanups on creeks with unprecedented strainers. 

It sucks having to portage good drops, and it sucks even more when the only way out is down the river or hike back up to the put in and you wish you had just a basic saw to get the strainer out of the way.


----------



## El Flaco (Nov 5, 2003)

I'd add one more item that has come in handy for me- it's a wire saw like this one: commando wire saw










It can cut through a paddle shaft in seconds (as well as boat plastic, I imagine) and it weighs close to nothing. If you break a paddle blade you can pack out the pieces (as we did on the Big South) instead of leaving a 5' shaft in the woods. It'll cut through wood too. You can get something similar at the Home Depot for $5 or so in the Pipe section. 

Oh- and it slices, dices, and juiliannes....leaving nothing but fresh wholesome juice, the way Nature intended. :-D


----------



## ActionJackson (Apr 6, 2005)

Warren said:


> Now on the long or commiting days I paddle with a 9x9 piece of Bituthane (Ice & Water Shield) in a ziploc bag. Don't leave it in the boat as summer heat will do a number on it. Just throw it in for the run. Saved my butt on the Big South when I split my boat half way in. Random addition by another boater to his boat the day before. Thanks Clay! Not a save all but applied to a dry boat and left to adhere for a bit the patch will get you down.


Never heard of this stuff. Where do you get it?


----------



## Chip (Apr 7, 2007)

*when the going gets weird. . .*

I tried one of those cable saw thingies: the steel rings just about amputated my fingers. A couple loops of webbing will fix that. But if (under stress) you drop one in a muddy crick, it disappears. Zing!

If you get a bonus pruning saw (molded hollow handle & stainless blade) it floats, sort of. Plus you don't need to think— just whip it out and go. On the Pack Cat I rig mine forward, with velcro straps, opposite my throw bag. Saved me some ugly B&D on exploratory outings. 

Of course the smart tactic is to pull up, scout, cut the jams free, and go. (Repeat as required). 

For mega-jams (like the one on the Middle Fork) send in 100 nubile virgin kayakers with 48" Jonsered chainsaws strapped to their rear decks. 

And don't forget the videocam. 

Chip


----------



## Warren (Dec 28, 2003)

Action,
If you don't have friends in the building/roofing community that may have a scrap you can use I would suggest going down to your local lumber yard. Probably not your local Home Cheapo or Lowes. They may have it but doubtful. Ask for door/window water shield it usually comes in a roll about 9" wide but I'd get some buddies to split it with you cause you'll be buying about 75 feet of it. Also comes in the big rolls (Grace Ice and Water Shield) but the other will be the more cost effective way. Where ya at? If you're down Durango way I have an extra chunk I'll give ya.


----------



## Waterwindpowderrock (Oct 11, 2003)

Warren said:


> Action,
> If you don't have friends in the building/roofing community that may have a scrap you can use I would suggest going down to your local lumber yard. Probably not your local Home Cheapo or Lowes. They may have it but doubtful. Ask for door/window water shield it usually comes in a roll about 9" wide but I'd get some buddies to split it with you cause you'll be buying about 75 feet of it. Also comes in the big rolls (Grace Ice and Water Shield) but the other will be the more cost effective way. Where ya at? If you're down Durango way I have an extra chunk I'll give ya.


I think any retail place you go to will make you buy a full roll, What you mentioned is called Vycor plus, also made by Grace. I would guess it'd be about $25 (a roll of reg. Grace is over $100 now)
Btw, I have plenty that I could spare & can get as much as I want for free. I'm in Empire (Clear Creek co)


----------



## Cheyenne (Oct 14, 2003)

Find one of these -> Saber Cut Saw

Beats the little "wire" saw. 

It's basically a chain saw chain with the teeth pointing in both directions. Not quite as fast as the saw that I've seen Dave Frank carries at times, but it doesn't have the smelly gas fumes either.

I've used this during some wood clean up trips and have cut through some fairly large (+10 inches) logs.


----------



## darinm (Nov 7, 2005)

I generally bring some (but not all) of the aformentioned items, but here are a few other items worth considering.

Zip ties: so you can stop the crack from spreading and put the Bituthane on. Great for multi days where the boat is going to take a lot more abuse. Good for other random fixes and weighs next to nothing.

Needle + small amount of thread/dental floss/fishing line, whichever you prefer. Clutch for fixing the skirt gone bad, saw this save the day before I started carrying it.

$10-$20: Very handy, hike out, get a nice beverage or help motivate a ride to warm cloths and the take-out. Really nice for internatial paddling.

Pen + Paper: Priceless for international paddling if a member of the group isn't fluent in the local language and has to hike out, can help them a lot if a fluent member writes key words/phrases describing situation/what they need.

Darin
Team JK


----------



## blutzski (Mar 31, 2004)

If you use prusiks, make sure they are the right diameter for the rope you're using. We had to unpin a boat on Bear this season, and the prussiks I use with my regular throw bag wouldn't grip on smaller diameter rope of the waist bag I had that day. Luckily I had tiblocs also and they worked great. And the tiblocs didn't do anything to the rope even with six guys hauling on a Z-drag.

Here's mine:
2 pulleys
One webbing loop sized to make a climbing harness
One webbing loop sixed to be waist worn with a self-locking biner.
One additional webbing loop
2 tiblocs
2 spectra prussiks
2 additional locking biners
bear claw knife
whistle
safety vest with belt
food
filter bottle
bitch-u-thane
break down
first aid kit


----------



## Caspian (Oct 14, 2003)

I don't think this has been mentioned yet, but one thing to be aware of with Spectra is that it has a much lower melting point than nylon and it is much more slippery. Gurus in the climbing world say never to use it for a Prussik knot. That is why you can only buy Spectra runners pre-sewn and not Spectra webbing by the foot. Not sure about the kernmantle-style Spectra line, it may have a sheath of a different fiber to alleviate that problem. This is also a potential problem for people like myself whose throw bag contains Spectra - less friction on the Prussik to start with, so I might do a couple extra wraps with the perlon/nylon Prussik on a rope like that.


----------



## darinm (Nov 7, 2005)

Caspian said:


> I don't think this has been mentioned yet, but one thing to be aware of with Spectra is that it has a much lower melting point than nylon and it is much more slippery. Gurus in the climbing world say never to use it for a Prussik knot. That is why you can only buy Spectra runners pre-sewn and not Spectra webbing by the foot. Not sure about the kernmantle-style Spectra line, it may have a sheath of a different fiber to alleviate that problem. This is also a potential problem for people like myself whose throw bag contains Spectra - less friction on the Prussik to start with, so I might do a couple extra wraps with the perlon/nylon Prussik on a rope like that.


 Yeah it can be a issue, we had a 1/4" Spectra rope on a pinned boat and got no love from Spectra or nylon prussics, no matter how many wraps. Ended up using a Tiblock which worked like a charm and did no damage to the rope. 

Once I also was pulling on a dry static line with a prussic and it was slipping a lot, ended up borrowing a tiblock and had no issues after that, sold me on them. So imo if you carry a spectra bag, one or two tiblocks would be a good investment too.


----------



## schase1967 (May 24, 2008)

*Anchors*

I just finished reading this thread. I noticed that a lot of people are carrying a great deal of webbing to make anchors with. I am assuming you are using the anchors in association with a mechanical advantage system of some sort. Also, I noted that the majority are carrying two throwbags.
Just a thought, but what about using either the end of the rope for an anchor and building a 3:1 or 5:1 off of the remainder or using your second rope bag as an anchor. In fact, even a prusik loop can be used for an anchor or how about the cam straps your carrying. You could double up a couple and use that webbing to build and anchor.
One pice of webbing say 10ft or so would convienent, beyond that carrying 40-50 feet of 1" tubular webbing can get heavy and bulky. 
In addition, how often do you replace your webbing? How many hang your wet webbing outside to dry when you are doen at the end of the day? Webbing exposed to UV is subject to degradation. Webbing is one of the fastest pieces of climbing to be damaged by UV.


----------



## El Flaco (Nov 5, 2003)

schase1967 said:


> One pice of webbing say 10ft or so would convienent, beyond that carrying 40-50 feet of 1" tubular webbing can get heavy and bulky.
> In addition, how often do you replace your webbing? How many hang your wet webbing outside to dry when you are doen at the end of the day? Webbing exposed to UV is subject to degradation. Webbing is one of the fastest pieces of climbing to be damaged by UV.


 I keep my kit in a Watershed Bag, so that the webbing and prussicks stay dry. I also keep a hand chain saw in there, and keeping it dry is pretty key..


----------

