# Salt River - is it worth the drive from Seattle?



## [email protected] (Jun 1, 2010)

Invite me and my rafting buddy and go. It is like nothing else you have probably been on.
Just check the flow before leaving town and pack light and take small rigs if you have any.


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## griz (Sep 19, 2005)

At the end of you’re life, you’ll be glad you stayed home and watched Oprah.


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## Electric-Mayhem (Jan 19, 2004)

Unless some last minute weather happens...this year is gonna be a hit or miss on when it actually happens. April could be great...or it might be too late depending on when the melt starts. I think for it to be decent this year its gonna take a rain event flushing the snow out of the mountains...which will also make it a short season.

All that said... the Salt is probably in my top three favorite runs I've done with the Grand Canyon and Middle Fork being the other two of the top three (haven't run the Selway or any PNW/West Coast rivers like the Rogue...but its on the list). Access is great, shuttle is easy, and it has a very unique feel to it. 

Its certainly a haul from Seattle though. I had the "pleasure" of doing a similar drive up there and back a few months ago to pick up my Dory and its certainly a long trip and it took it out of me. I did it basically round trip back to back though...so having a river trip in between certainly makes it better. Its kind of too bad you don't have a permit at the beginning of the permit season, as the Salt is a great river to do back to back trips on.

I found that its a great trip to combine with a Grand Canyon trip. I did it that way in 2017 and it was a great way to wash the cobwebs off and warm up for the Grand. That was with a good water year and a big snow/rain storm that had come through and raised the levels to about 6000cfs. We put on a few days after that storm came through and it was probably ~3500cfs and dropping as we went down.

So... to me...I think yes is the answer... its a great early season trip and worth the drive. 1000cfs or higher and basically anything will make it down. Below that...small craft are better but I've heard stories of people still taking a 14' boat down. I had a buddy who took a little cataraft down at 300-400cfs and he said he thought it was still too big till he saw a group with a fully loaded 14'er that had managed to get down somehow.

I'm not sure what is available to rent in the area...but I'd be awfully tempted to fly to Phoenix and borrow or rent a boat. Kinda tempted to do it that way even from Denver...which is about a 12 hour drive. Its only 2 hours away from Phoenix...so pretty doable. You could fly to Flagstaff and rent a boat there too...about 4 hours from there to the river. Harder and more expensive to fly there though...tiny airport.


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## bcpnick (Jul 16, 2015)

I say definitely worth it. The Salt is probably my favorite run so far, even up against the likes of Middle Fork, Yampa, Lodore, Cataract, Westwater, Deso, and the Tat-Alsek. I am particularly fond of the desert though, and rafting amongst the saguaros and awesome geologic features is uniquely special.


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## davbaker (Aug 4, 2013)

Thanks for all the thoughtful replies. I am really tempted to stay at home and just watch Oprah as Griz recommends but man if flows are favorable it sure will be tempting!


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## Fly By Night (Oct 31, 2018)

Is it worth it? Well depends on wheather or not I'm in invited....

Seriously though it's epic. 

I agree it might be worth flying in and renting gear.

If you invite friends from say Durango perhaps they could grab some rental boats for you on the way down. 😉


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## Jdsampsonite (Dec 7, 2015)

I would say its worth the trip but early March it is much more likely to be flowing then in April. Very hit and miss that late.


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## okieboater (Oct 19, 2004)

Over the years I have been blessed to run many of the classic rivers in the US.

Multiple trips down the Salt. Salt is one of the Classic Runs in my opinion.

I have always done Salt floats when the weather was warm days cold nights. Hitting the Salt with good CFS and weather is always hit or miss. If you get lucky go !!

Camps are really good, rapids interesting and while the Salt is different from most other rafting rivers, the Salt is in the top runs in the US for me.

I have run the Salt in kayaks and 14 ft Aire self bailers and every run was super fun.

Living in the Tulsa OK area, I am used to long drives to and from the good runs. 

The Salt is worth the drive no matter the time it takes.

I have run rivers like the Rogue and others in that area. If you have river buds who can help you get gear, Flying to / from the Salt (Phoenix maybe) makes for a even better time.


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## codycleve (Mar 26, 2012)

I made the drive last march from Salmon, Idaho and it was well worth the drive. 2 days getting there and 2 days getting back. we used moab as our midway point. I had friends come from grants pass. I have a lot of the classics in my back yard and loved it.. It was snowing when I left so it helped me escape winter i bit early. it's a very cool river and if the water is there go.


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

It's worth doing, I've been down a couple times, earlier is better for water, low water is a complete rock dodge with a LOT of pushing and pulling, we got snowed on once, about 6 inches, was cool looking at the cactus in the snow. The Indian fees are off putting though and while I haven't been there in years, the put in is sorta a pain.


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## George_Washington_Hayduke (Apr 24, 2016)

Yeah dude, totally worth it. One of the coolest wild rivers out their if you can get the flows. Here is a video of my trip down the Salt from March 2019 

https://youtu.be/FcMMsI8Q-o0


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## Fly By Night (Oct 31, 2018)

Sweet video! 

That makes me want to go boating even more.


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## Andy H. (Oct 13, 2003)

Looks worth it to me!

Shucks, I'd love to go.


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## blueotter (Nov 30, 2018)

Cool song, too


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## [email protected] (Jun 1, 2010)

Here is a video at about 1800+ CFS to show you how much the river changes with different flows. GW Hayduke's was about 1000 CFS more than this one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdZ9VoqBLxo

Me and my Nephew 2017


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## codycleve (Mar 26, 2012)

here is my video from last march. one of the earlier rapid names repeated and is wrong. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5WjaxJ2GN4&t=925s


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## davbaker (Aug 4, 2013)

George_Washington_Hayduke said:


> Yeah dude, totally worth it. One of the coolest wild rivers out their if you can get the flows. Here is a video of my trip down the Salt from March 2019
> 
> https://youtu.be/FcMMsI8Q-o0


Hey George. Awesome video. After all the input I have received I have decided it is worth the trip if the flows are running. It seems the consensus is that the Salt is definitely worth the drive

Dave


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## davbaker (Aug 4, 2013)

codycleve said:


> here is my video from last march. one of the earlier rapid names repeated and is wrong. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5WjaxJ2GN4&t=925s


Hey Cody

Nice! I had already found your video on Youtube. Super cool. Thanks for your advice, and all the advice you have given me on the Main Salmon in the past. Hope all is well in Salmon!

Dave


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## codycleve (Mar 26, 2012)

Always glad to give out any info that I can and help someones trip come together. 

I just checked the stats for the video and it went from 1 to 3 views a day to 63 on the day permits where released. It's kind of fun to watch, i expect the same for my low water middle fork video come tomorrow.


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## GeoRon (Jun 24, 2015)

"Salt River - is it worth the drive from Seattle?"

Yes, you will in short time, real time be able to say "We ain't in Kansas(or where ever your are from) no more".

It is worth rolling the dice up to the last few weeks to commit to going. That is the nature of the Salt. 

Having been there a half dozen times or more, Salt is the spice of life and the best way to kick off a year of boating.

The combination of culture, ecology, geology, locality, diverse camp sites and fairly unique whitewater it is worth every effort if for no reason other than to say, been there, done that, and it was sublime.


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## Chico (Apr 18, 2017)

Make it about the people and the journey and not about the river, and it will be worth it!


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## davbaker (Aug 4, 2013)

codycleve said:


> Always glad to give out any info that I can and help someones trip come together.
> 
> I just checked the stats for the video and it went from 1 to 3 views a day to 63 on the day permits where released. It's kind of fun to watch, i expect the same for my low water middle fork video come tomorrow.


Yep, I expect my crew has helped pad your Youtube stats a bit for the low water MFS vid - I have it saved and shared with some friends. We have an off season MFS permit in September this year. It will be my first time on the MFS - I am sure I just need to memorize your lines and I will never get stuck. Counting on it.

Dave


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## davbaker (Aug 4, 2013)

GeoRon said:


> "Salt River - is it worth the drive from Seattle?"
> 
> Yes, you will in short time, real time be able to say "We ain't in Kansas(or where ever your are from) no more".
> 
> ...


Hey GeoRon

Well put, and a really compelling argument for making the trip. Now I am just praying for snow/snowpack. Hey BTW, and I can't recall if I asked you this before, but did you and your wife run the MFS in hardshells in August 2018, followed by the Main (you in a dory, your wife in a hardshell)? If so, we met at Corn Creek then again at the Black Creek scout, and various points along the river. We were a group of 4 boats, one IK, and a gaggle of kids. My wife and I often talk about you guys as we plan our ideal retirement. If it wasn't you, excuse the digression.

Dave


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## GeoRon (Jun 24, 2015)

davbaker said:


> Hey GeoRon
> 
> Well put, and a really compelling argument for making the trip. Now I am just praying for snow/snowpack. Hey BTW, and I can't recall if I asked you this before, but did you and your wife run the MFS in hardshells in August 2018, followed by the Main (you in a dory, your wife in a hardshell)? If so, we met at Corn Creek then again at the Black Creek scout, and various points along the river. We were a group of 4 boats, one IK, and a gaggle of kids. My wife and I often talk about you guys as we plan our ideal retirement. If it wasn't you, excuse the digression.
> 
> Dave


That was Infidien. I'd loved to have had his life and retirement. I was with him as far as Corn Ck that year in hard shell shelf support where he(picking up his dory) and Patty continued on. He is on the Grand now doing me the favor of ground truthing my Sunrise/Sunset graphs. I got a text from him yesterday(Garmin Inreach) from Bass saying that all is well. I'll text him your regards.


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## mikesee (Aug 4, 2012)

I'd take the Salt 10x out of 10 over the Rogue.


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## GeoRon (Jun 24, 2015)

mikesee said:


> I'd take the Salt 10x out of 10 over the Rogue.


But then we must remember, the Illinois is next door to the Rogue.


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## mikesee (Aug 4, 2012)

GeoRon said:


> But then we must remember, the Illinois is next door to the Rogue.




Totally different conversation.

But while you're changing the subject, I'll note that the LCR is on the way from Seattle to the Salt...

...and I'd take the LCR over anything that's been discussed in this thread. Every time.


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## GeoRon (Jun 24, 2015)

mikesee said:


> Totally different conversation.
> 
> But while you're changing the subject, I'll note that the LCR is on the way from Seattle to the Salt...
> 
> ...and I'd take the LCR over anything that's been discussed in this thread. Every time.


While we are off subject, I'd love to know more about the LCR even though it is now out of my league.


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## mikesee (Aug 4, 2012)

GeoRon said:


> While we are off subject, I'd love to know more about the LCR even though it is now out of my league.



Someday I'll get around to that TR.

You don't have to paddle anything harder than class III.


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## GeoRon (Jun 24, 2015)

mikesee said:


> Someday I'll get around to that TR.
> 
> You don't have to paddle anything harder than class III.


Thanks for the pics. They give me an instant feeling of the Jarbidge-Bruneau/Deepcreek area, an intimate river between towering walls.

"You don't have to paddle anything harder than class III" is a lot like a river in your backyard, the Black Canyon. The portages are Class VI though.

Back on topic, below is a pixel hydrograph of the Salt. In this one graph is the entire history of the Chrysotile gauge. It illustrates why to plan to go until it is obviously a no go. Green is good to go. Above 1k most boats can make it. Small boats can consider it down to .5k. Beware that if it is dropping fast at low flow it can get pretty boney in there as you will end up with more rocks than river. 

USGS raster hydrographs for western rivers can be viewed by clicking on symbol "4" in the daily flow report posted here on MB. It is always in column 35. If you click on symbol "5" you will download the file used to make the raster hydrograph. That file contains the average daily flow for everyday that the gauge has been in operation. That file is good to use to refresh you memory. For example, "I launch on April 5th last year(or anyday) but I can't remember the flow." The file will provide that info.


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## kayakingphotog (May 25, 2007)

*This from Steve last year at this time. If I am not mistaken the snow pack this year is running at about the same as then. However we had two fantastic late spring snow events that pushed the Salt to better then ever. Plan plan plan....and hope hope hope.....and just go go go.....*

Greetings Waterborne People:

I am sending you this email because you applied for a permit to boat through the Salt River Canyon this season. If you wish to be removed from my email list please feel free to be creative in the subject line telling me. Let’s either go with sugary sweet, or downright rude.

Somebody asked me if I was going to send out another email blast, which I didn’t know I had been doing, but was really glad to hear that I could still blast.

This is a quick note to tell everybody that today is the last day to pay for the permit if you were selected. You pretty much have to do all that stuff to accept and pay on your rec.gov profile. I don’t have much control over their servers, so if you have payment issues you have to contact their help desk.

At this point, if it was me I would pay, and then watch the snow pack and weather and make the call, three weeks or more out, when you still have time to get the permit fee back. If your permit is in early March, and you don’t have three weeks or more, it’s a dice roll; I would roll the dice (but maybe that’s because I don’t live in my truck anymore, and, like many boaters, I have high risk tolerance).

If you want to transfer a permit to someone else:
First, have whoever got drawn pay for it.
Please wait until after February, 22nd to contact me about it.
Write me an email from the premittee’s email address, used in the application, requesting the transfer, and including all of the relevant information on the front of the permit for the new permittee (Name, address, and stuff).
Modify your copy of the permit to reflect the change, and I will do the same on our end so our rangers stopping by to visit you will know what’s up.
Then give me a call on my cell if you have questions: (928) 595-1647
You do not need to do this if you are going to be on the trip. You need not be the trip leader to be the permittee.

I recommend buying you permit form the White Mountain Apache Tribe (2-days, $25 a day) online before the trip. It also allows you to camp at the put-in the night before your trip: https://wmatoutdoor.org/purchase_permit.html

It has been cold here and it looks like we are going to have some water this year. We are showing 8.6 inches of snow water equivalent (swe) at the Hannigan Meadows gauge so not too bad, and I think that this may be reading low (it may be more like 10 in swe). Tomorrow we are supposed to get hit with a large cold snow storm with the snow level down low enough to snow here in Globe at 4,000 feet. It has the potential to add a foot or two of snow to our basin; very exciting.

As I write it is 1,660 at the put-in and dropping. Here is the graph for the put-in from the Colorado River Basin Forecast Center (CBRFC), which looks pretty accurate to me:

https://www.cbrfc.noaa.gov/station/...1.0.1.0..10.10.0.1.0.0.0.0.0.0..0.H...0.0.png

With the low elevation snow that is here now, and about to be added to, I think it will come up to runnable levels pretty quickly in March. It should be noted, however, that I am frequently wrong.

Here are some websites you may wish to visit if you want to follow along that many of you have seen in my previous emails:

The website for SNOTEL data is: http://www.wcc.nrcs.usda.gov/snow/
For the Salt River, under Snow (SNOTEL and Snow Course) click on “Data”. Click on “Daily SWE Report-Current Water Year: By SNOTEL Site”. Click on the drop-down list of states for Arizona and then scroll down to the “Hannigan Meadows” site. Simple, no? Sometimes I also look at “Baldy” which is also in the Salt River Basin. The historic values are also on this site if you want to compare to other years.

For website for current streamflow data in Arizona is: http://waterdata.usgs.gov/az/nwis/current/?type=flow
Scroll down to the Salt River Basin. The put-in is “Salt River Near Chrysotile” and the take-out is “Salt River Near Roosevelt”.

If you want someone smarter than me to predict the river level, this is the website for the Colorado Basin River Forecast Center: http://www.cbrfc.noaa.gov/ Click on the blue dot for “SLC: Salt, Chrysotile, NR” and view the forecast. Click on the forecast if you wish to change the parameters of the prediction.

I usually look at the weather forecast for the coming week on this webpage right before I leave town: http://www.weather.com/maps/planner

And this one:;https://www.wunderground.com/intellicast I search for Globe and then hit the 10 day forecast tab. I look at Alpine AZ for close to the snow pack.

Or there is this colorful one from NOAA: http://www.goes.noaa.gov/goes-w.html

And here is a link to the free map on our websitehttps://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/fsbdev3_018592.pdf 
You can use it to start the fire when you are done with a page.

And one more thing, I stand corrected; I guess I was kind of winging’ it. Anyway, please see Larry’s slightly edited response to my previous email, which I found to be very informative:

Don,

Larry here, I’m the retired NOAA/NWS boater that you interacted with in 2017 about the CBRFC’s forecast for the Salt, and I did run the Salt in late March that year.

Just reading your email. Although there has been a pretty good southern storm track this year and it looks like it’s going to continue, technically the El Nino has not formed yet and the tell-tale coupling of the atmospheric pattern to the warm ocean has not yet been observed. NOAA/NWS Climate Prediction Center issues a monthly bulletin on El Nino (http://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/analysis_monitoring/enso_advisory/ensodisc.shtml) and they are still expecting it to happen, but most of the winter will have passed by then. A forecast of El Nino gets a lot of media coverage, but sometimes the media forgets to follow up.

Larry 

I love this job. Thanks Larry.

Thanks for stopping by. Now let’s go boating.


Forest Service Shield

Don R. Sullivan 
Wilderness River Manager


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## Ever_Cat (Jan 20, 2009)

GeoRon,
That is an awesome plot. I don't often download your reports (a bit more than I usually need when just wondering about a flow), but I am going to start poking around these to see what other gems are embedded. Good stuff and thanks.
Ever_Cat


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## davbaker (Aug 4, 2013)

GeoRon said:


> That was Infidien. I'd loved to have had his life and retirement. I was with him as far as Corn Ck that year in hard shell shelf support where he(picking up his dory) and Patty continued on. He is on the Grand now doing me the favor of ground truthing my Sunrise/Sunset graphs. I got a text from him yesterday(Garmin Inreach) from Bass saying that all is well. I'll text him your regards.


Thanks GeoRon, and sorry for the confusion. Please pass on my comments to Infidien. What a life!


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## kokoroltd (Apr 12, 2015)

Hey Dave, like many here I've done most of the major trips from the rogue to the tuolumne, hell's canyon, all the salmons, the grand, yampa, etc. I Love the salt. Done it multi times. Something real cool about rafting among the seguaros. April can be real "iffy " but I have been down it many times in the early part. Though I haven't done it on the salt, if it is real low I would take a tandem ik with backpack gear. Done that on north Platte many times and, others. Last time I went down, my wife and I took the narrow 14ft nrs. Didn't load huge but we were loaded. Kitchen box for 10, 120 qt cooler, dish wash kit, and dry bags/wammo cans, 1st aid kit, etc.
You won't be sorry. I like it way better than the San Juan. 
Gary


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