# Black canyon experts



## Cutch (Nov 4, 2003)

Just boof you pansy. 

:roll:


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## erdvm1 (Oct 17, 2003)

Yep.... never run it but it sounds like a boof is warranted ......Do you plan on testing the Rocker bulkhead again Joe?........Why are you asking a question like that??? The question you should be asking is what's the biggest drop in the East Vail Chutes......or if I throw a Jelly Roll off Bachelors Saddle can I still pull off an inverted stale fish mute grab before I touch down?? Or does the October Hole run in November?


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## Mut (Dec 2, 2004)

you should just portage it. There is a trial on top of the rim, its buffed out and even has some nice overlooks to stop at.


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## cebel (Oct 10, 2003)

Joe,
I believe the rock is in the right 2/3 of the pile. I too have seen a couple pencil runs w/out piton... as I remember these guys landed in the less aerated water at the left of the pile. Probably the result of the teeter-totter effect of the rock at the left side of the lip. I don't really trust that landing under about 800. 

Cheers,
Charlie


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## Ken Vanatta (May 29, 2004)

*don't*

Bottom line -- don't run the river right lines. It is obvious that the LZ is a boulder field. Why anyone wants to risk obvious and probable injury is pretty rediculous. I'm sure that numerous a boof has been survived there now that extreme kayaking has attracted increasing numbers there. It seems rather pointless though. An injury in the bottom of the Black is a major inconvienance, endangerment, and potential expense to many people. 

When Jason Kreager, Boe Freeburn and I first ran it in '89 or '90(?) we used the name "Let's make a deal Falls". After having listened to the wonderous stories around the campfires told by Tom Nofzinger, Steve Morgan, and Todd Hebblewhite (early '80s BC vets), we were excited to finally tackle the Black. It is an incredible expedition style trip right in our own state. However, the three of us had no trouble agreeing that the right side of that falls was the wrong side. The left (second channel) is clean. I hope that the many adventerous boaters seeking this magnificent place will respect the remoteness of it. Be safe down there.


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## Curtis_Elwood (Apr 18, 2005)

*no BC expert, but...*

I've witnessed a shattered ankle on the middle chute (main line). Same line as pictured here. http://www.americanwhitewater.org/content/Photo/detail/photoid/5036/

The boater was took a leftie when she needed to take a righty. The rock is very obvious with spray coming off it. It's about 2.5 feet deep. As long as you're pointed left, you can dive deep. Boofing out is best, though. If you're really concerned, just cannonball yourself off the left side into the pool below and have someone lower your boat to you. Just don't swim into the sieve in the runout. Whatever you do, do not break an ankle in there. I speak from experience that it's a bad situation to deal with in there.


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## bigboater (Dec 10, 2003)

Its a bit of an enigma. My wife ramped up on the left side, but got too much rock and her boat pivoted 90 degrees as she went off. I watched in horror as she fell off bow vertical and pointed right with no speed. For sure we were going to be carrying her out. Actually she hit nothing. I think the rock must have a small surface area and your either lucky or not. Bottom line, if you're not 100% sure of your boof you shouldn't run it. You shouldn't even think of pennciling as an option. I've run it as low as about 500cfs successfully, but it took some serious flight control. My boat almost stopped on the lip.


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## Ken Vanatta (May 29, 2004)

*Thanks Elwood*

Hey, Elwood. Your comment on an injury and the link to the picture is much appreciated. The channel to the left in that picture is the recommended line. I'm really glad the topic came up on the buzz. The BC is not the place to want injuries to happen. Of course, they can happen anywhere through canyon. Let it be known, though, that the right side of this fall can be an ankle breaker. I've never heard of any injuries ever occuring in the second from the left channel, though. It is a sweet and enjoyable drop. The falls do not require portaging. The falls are runnable cleanly. Relish the moment. It is a bit like having your desert before your meal. The arguous portage begins shortly after.
Cheers!


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## CGM (Jun 18, 2004)

I'm with Kyle on this one Joe. 
Chris


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## JCKeck1 (Oct 28, 2003)

alright, C and McC - yah jackasses. I know the boof is the proper line, but the pic of Bryan O breaking his ankles got me thinking. It does look like a pretty easy boof at the right water levels, but when I was there we all passed because it was low and looked like you would dry out at the lip and teeter off. Plus, Bryan's boof doesn't look too bad, just not great (http://coloradokayak.blogspot.com/).
You guys want to get a beer tomorrow night?
Joe


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## Cutch (Nov 4, 2003)

Yes on the beer. Boof harder than not boofing hard enough. 

serious note: I put my paddle on the rock to take the boof stroke.


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## &d (Apr 28, 2006)

i went conservatively way left over this, angled way left, not quite rock boofing the shelf (at 800) and fell on my side, bracing back up (or was it rolling?) i scraped the rock pile (right side) with my paddle. i prefer my angle because if you miss the boof (by some horribly improbably factor) youre still pretty much in the clear


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## bowen (Feb 10, 2004)

Just charge the drop from right to left. I hit hard because I tried to boof the drop straight (with a little left angle), without any momentum from side to side. I'm finding that moving across a drop laterally is much better than a flat 2 dimensional move. You have more opportunity to charge the drop agressively and hit your line, keeping the nose up, and the its nice to land it a little on your side to displace the water on a boof like that. 

I'll bet you can run this one right off the middle at higher water (1200+)...the rock will be underwater.


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## WW Lush (Dec 26, 2003)

Unfortunately I can confess to missing my boof. I plugged it at 1200cfs and did not hit anything. I would not reccommend it but that may be a level you want it at, Joe, if you dont want to boof.


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## ski_kayak365 (Dec 7, 2003)

Joe, stop asking questions and just go get in there and try it for your self.
 You'll figure it out on the way down.


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## N. Wigston (Nov 5, 2003)

i really think they should put another one of those waterfalls at the end of the portage. I mean really.


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## &d (Apr 28, 2006)

that thing after the ferry pool looked damn near navigable to me


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## milo (Apr 21, 2004)

......anybody wanna get sum?......warm water, warm air, warm atmosphere........HIGH water......MONTOSE STYLE....roadside action!!!!!.....less than 1/2 day.....i wanna boat with JOE....FRESH burn MISSION medium......wanna test drive it....fresh in from PERU...****CALLS NOT MONITORED FOR QUALITY ASSURANCE******JRmuthafukinRANGER420cb......


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## milo (Apr 21, 2004)

......1st or 2nd ferry [email protected]


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## &d (Apr 28, 2006)

umm, *if* the second ferry pool is really the end of the world (id rather call it paradise now!) .. then i mean the first ferry pool.. 

at 800 the landing (to the big one after the ferry pool, at the end of the major portage) was behind a surface level seive, which might be an underwater hazard now .. if you mean there are two ferry pools in the major portage then im lost in the head-model . 

frankly .. my drytops are trash (more or less) and i wont go into a canyon this time of year without proper gear .. but of course that means im a neck gasket away from year round boating. plus im an athsmatic midget who smokes profusely off the water, i couldnt keep up with a determined parapalegic on the portage. spraining my ankles or worse during a portage is the biggest deterrant to black canyon madness for me. black canyon is a mandatory two days for me, even if i am less mellow than i like to be. harmonica jams until springtime, maybe a trip somewhere in december i dunno.


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## milo (Apr 21, 2004)

.....********THIS JUST IN*********....flows to increase to 1800cfs thru the month of december.....(who gives a fuck you say)....well, i do of course....as do several other kayakers.....it's running high right now and ramping will start soon(we'd like it before it gets to 18 hundo)......cold?-yes...too cold?-no....fun?-maybe....access?-closed by the VISITOR PROTECTION agency but, have located a SENIORrangerMONTROSE with promising information........for your information it's "low" elevation in montrose....warmer in montrose....going off in montrose.....sunnier in montrose....less snowy in montrose......sketchy in montrose.......ps i have the shuttle taken care of....mini stove for hot drinks if needed... i've run it as late as nov 22....no problems, overnighter without sleeping bag.....anyhow.....still in boat mode....scorching hot desert peruvian canyons to a less than warm montrose canyon......bingo.....JRranger420CB......where's JOE?........


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## JCKeck1 (Oct 28, 2003)

milo, I've been meaning to get out down south and meet a genuine JRranger420CB. I've got aspirations of maybe one day becoming a deputy JRranger420. I do have to admit that I'm a little timid about hitting the Montrose Box in december at high water... I ran gore two sundays ago and nearly froze to death. The 10 day weather looks like 37 degree highs. I wont make it this upcoming week, but there is a chance for the following week. What are your thoughts? Might as well git some...
Joe


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## freeheelintodd (Aug 7, 2005)

my parents are visiting this week, but this idiot might be in for a cold weather whitewater overnight extraviganza next weekend. pogies?


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## milo (Apr 21, 2004)

....i think the only extra gear would be poggies(portage pads).....socks.....extra thin top and bottom......maybe crack a few hand warmers open in your MAN-PURSE(drybag).....over nighter? nope......35 below a couple of days ago here at my house....one day blitz....KAYAKING IS DUMB.....jr.mf.ranger.420.cb.......


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## ACC (Oct 30, 2003)

Hey hey, my my . . . out of the blue, and into the BLACK . . .


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