# Cat Frames



## richp (Feb 27, 2005)

Hi BS,

I've used NRS standard cat and universal frames on 16' tubes, and found them pretty versatile. I like the way I can shift cross-bars easily and re-rig for different kinds of trips.

I also built a two-piece 12' long frame for my 20' Jack's tubes, using NRS fittings and 1.25" schedule 40 pipe. Also very good for versatility and strength.

FWIW.

Rich Phillips
VP, GCPBA
gcpba.org
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gcpba/messages


----------



## rwhyman (May 23, 2005)

I have DRE frames on both of my rigs. One raft and one cat. I, too, seem to move things around a bit while I search for the perfect set up. Not sure I found it yet.

This is the frame I use on my cat.
Down River Equipment

Here is another option, but I've never dealt with or seen these frames.
American Whitewater Products - The finest frames, trailers, and accessories for the boating and rafting industry. All American frames are made custom.
Looks like the "Hummer" of cat frames.

Also, this guy comes pretty highly recommended from the Idaho folks. Again, no experience, just passing on info I have collected.
MADCATR Creations - Custom Fabricated Stainless Steel and Aluminum Rafting Equipment


----------



## El Flaco (Nov 5, 2003)

Just to give you more options, I always thought that the RecReTec frames looked well-made and well-priced: Cascade Outfitters Whitewater Rafting Equipment: Rec 72 Cat Frame=
That being said, I like DRE because they're local (to Denver more than Aztec, to be sure), they break down & are modifiable. They can make you a custom design as well, and they're good people.


----------



## bshock (Jun 15, 2007)

Thanks for the info and insight so far.

Have you guys used a smaller rowing frame with one or two smaller cargo frames as an option for overnight trips? I saw these on the Madcatr website. If so, do you use a deck board over the top of one for passengers? It seems like a good idea for easier transportation (de-rigged) and offers more combinations for different runs (day runs vs. multi). Would suggest going with one of the bigger frames from either DRE or NRS?

Thanks,
Brian


----------



## richp (Feb 27, 2005)

Hi Brian,

My first private GC trip I used a standard 9' NRS cat frame on 16' tubes, with 24" trailer frames front and rear. The boat was way overloaded, but I managed it. I had rigged a solid aluminum floor, so I had a bit of air under the load on the flats at least. 

The latest GC trip I did was with the 20'/30" Jacks El Tigre tubes. That time I had a 12' central frame (basically an extended NRS cat frame) with one 24" trailer and two 18" bow/stern trailers. Those were units with sloping floors to help punch a little, instead of the flat surface of my boxes hitting the waves. The 12' frame showed signs of flexing in big water, so I split it into two 6' sections. I have an 11" drop to the floor -- again giving me lots of air under the floor for the flats, even with a the heavier load this boat can carry.

I use a 5 hp Honda on the flats when the wind is up. Easy to rig. I also can and have run up to 18 hp of four stroke on it (Cat last fall) and it motors pretty well. But I rowed the entire Grand last year no problem. Well, actually, with the big tubes, there's more boat than boatman there, but I still like it a lot.

Generally, I really like the flexibility I have with the NRS-based frames, even though they may be a little heavier than some others.

FWIW.

Rich Phillips
VP, GCPBA
gcpba.org


----------



## bshock (Jun 15, 2007)

Rich, thanks for the info, that helps alot. 

Anybody have some advice on how to convince your wife that you need another boat in the worst way???


----------



## richp (Feb 27, 2005)

Hi,

In my case, as long as the wife can buy stuff to keep her quilting addiction going, I can buy river gear. 

But for this one, my man, you're completely on your own.....

Rich


----------



## rwhyman (May 23, 2005)

When I got my 2nd boat, "It was such a great deal, I just couldn't pass it up"


----------



## dogalot (Jul 6, 2005)

I have used NRS frames on both my 16' cat and 14' cat for the past 10 years. They are light, durable, and highly versatile. I prefer the wider (72") width model over the 66" width to be sure that big coolers fit. You will be hauling a big cooler on your Daddy cat, yes? Throw in a flip seat bracket and tall oar towers and you will be stylin. 

dogalot


----------



## dogalot (Jul 6, 2005)

Forgot to mention: I convinced my wife we needed another boat (the 14' cat) because IT WAS FOR HER! Now the challenge lies in convincing her to let me use it now and then....​


----------



## DanRauer (Jun 8, 2006)

If you are going to go with a Jacks Plastic boat, give Ron at Riverboat Works in Salida a call. He is a Jacks dealer and will cut you a deal on the whole package. I have had him build me a few frames and they are *always *the nicest frames on the river. He uses 1 7/8" tubing and slip joints so you can move stuff around etc. Downriver frames are nice too and made of the same material, they just generally cost alittle more. Check out Roverboat and give that a thought. I have been 110% happy with him and will always go to him for frame even if I am out of state. The only frames I have seen that I did not like at all were AAA Inflatable frames. The ones I have seen are 1 1/2", but for some reason the squeak like hell, which would drive me nuts. 

Hope this helps. The first thing you need to consider is the type or material you want. Sotar makes nice steel ones with sweetass webbing floors.


----------



## twolabs (Aug 9, 2004)

*AAA Inflatables frames*

I got my entire package from AAA in Denver a few years ago and have had no problem with the squeaking that was mentioned above. Mark and Judy were great and customized the boat to what I wanted. Best of all, it breaks down entirely so I can change it as I search for just the right set up. I have a 14' cat with a 4 bay frame that works well as a good compromise between extended and day trips.

Dale


----------



## Chip (Apr 7, 2007)

*Buy or Build?*

I'm a stellar fan of Jack's cat tubes: we've got four sets and despite all manner of hairball runs over almost twenty years have* never *had a puncture. Tough, and beautiful. 

I build cat frames (for my boats, not for sale). It's fun and costs 1/4 - 1/3 what you'll pay for a DRE or NRS cat frame (both excellent and highly recommended). 

If you look at the 'Similar Threads' box below the last post on this thread, you'll see 'Games with Frames'. Scroll through and you'll find specs for homebuilding and sources for materials. On p.2 you'll find photos of a homebuilt frame for a 15 ft. Jack's Flyer Cat with 19" tubes. It's been down our local runs hundreds of times, Deso (high water), Lodore, and Northgate Canyon on the North Platte, with no problem whatsoever. 

Using galvanized chainlink toprail tubing and SpeedRail joints, I've only had one bollix and that was an ultralight frame with only one front cross tube (both footbar and frame member- risky). One end torqued loose in a hole, but I pulled into an eddy and fixed it in a jiff. Twisting loads are a problem. I rebuilt the frame with two front crossmembers. 

On the Grand Canyon, the combination of heavy loads and many rapids can be tough on frames. So whatever you choose, check the joints and especially the straps that hold the frame to the tubes. A loose strap can break under a shock load and cause other straps to fail. 

Jack himself had a bunch of straps blow on Lava Falls— he was rowing his sister's Daddy Cat through and some straps were evidently loose. Spooky. It's easy to pull up to camp and unload and start the booze-up without checking your rig. But a quick go-round with a wrench and a jerk on every crucial strap doesn't take much time, and you'll sleep easier. 

In any event, good luck—

Chip


----------



## DanRauer (Jun 8, 2006)

I have also looked into building my own frames. When it comes to that, I decided that having someone that builds frames for a living makes me sleep better. Yes, tightening bolts and straps does too.


----------



## bshock (Jun 15, 2007)

*Building your own!*

Chip-

That is some *GREAT *work; it's obvious you have invested lots of time and thought into building frames. I'm trying to decide whether to buy a frame or start a new "project." It looks like fun trying to build your own frame, I'm just not sure how well I would do. 

Are there any odd tools required for building one of these frames? Do you need a welder?

Thanks for sharing your ideas!
bs


----------

