# AW Preliminary Whitewater Fatality List



## nmalozzi (Jun 19, 2007)

What exactly do they mean be "Flush Drowning."


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## caspermike (Mar 9, 2007)

people are swept down stream and can not get out of the current and drown. condolences


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## nmalozzi (Jun 19, 2007)

Ok got ya, sorta what I was thinking, but I wanted to be sure. Thanks.


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## KSC (Oct 22, 2003)

Means it was a protracted swim where the victim died because they could not get out of the water and continued exposure, exhaustion, and dipping below the water surface contributed to death rather than something like a pin or sieve that might hold someone in place underneath the water.



nmalozzi said:


> What exactly do they mean be "Flush Drowning."


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## thogan (Jan 25, 2005)

Is it alarming that 9 of the 34 deaths were in colorado. Or just the sheer volume of boaters on our rivers. What is the yearly average for colorado?


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## Randaddy (Jun 8, 2007)

This didn't include the 2 deaths on the Poudre this season. There was a death on the bridge below BTO from a private boater getting pinned by a wrapped boat and there was a tuber with no PFD that died closer to town. I believe both have been discussed on this forum.


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## deepsouthpaddler (Apr 14, 2004)

Sobering news as always, but a good service to the boating community. Thanks for posting. 

Its amazing how many folks die from no PFD's. Thats one statistic that should be so easy to whittle down to zero, but yet it happens every year.

Its also interesting to see how many flush drownings were from commercial passengers or inexperienced boaters (IK on the colorado river). My gut feel is that a seasoned boater with good dry gear and good self rescue practice could get out of the river in many of these situations.

I think the large number of colorado incidents is due to high numbers of commercial passengers and a high water year. 

Hopefully the continued focus AW has on safety awarness will help reduce future accidents.


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## heliodorus04 (May 31, 2005)

My fiance took a commercial trip on the Ark over the fourth.
I wasn't along, as I was on the Taylor, so I told her "wear your PFD and helmet tight"

I was amazed when she told me that wearing a helmet wasn't mandatory (she wore hers, as well as all the gear they offered, at my insistence).

Commercial raft companies don't require a helmet?


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## Jay H (May 20, 2005)

heliodorus04 said:


> Commercial raft companies don't require a helmet?


I've seen several commercial rafts on the Ark with no one wearing helmets and I was surprised to see that as well...


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## xena13 (Mar 21, 2007)

On past commercial trips, I've always been required to wear a helmet in Royal Gorge and the Numbers, but not on Browns Canyon.


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## Jay H (May 20, 2005)

yeah you're right, it was browns where I saw the no-helmets


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## danger (Oct 13, 2003)

has there been a fatality on a commercial brown's canyon trip from a head injury? or any section of the ark? or any river? i've never heard of a commercial raft customer dying from a head injury. 

dan


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## craporadon (Feb 27, 2006)

*flush*

1. I don't know if it applies to any of these 13, I think sometimes Head Injuries are mistakenly called Flush Drownings because no one really witnesses them hitting their head, and all they see is them swimming for a while. 

2. I did'nt think Ben Earle was on a Class III river, it was a Class V creek. I think the rapid he actually got pinned on might have been Class III though. He was a really good boater that just happened to get hooked on wood and was unable to get off. 

3. Is there an actual database with magazine articles and possible pictures of the site for these accidents? Keeping a really good digital catalog of all these would be very helpful to the community and to future generations of people who might be trying to learn from history and make the sport safer.

3a. Where is more info available on these? Do you have to google each one yourself or is anyone collecting info and storing it in a central place?


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## heliodorus04 (May 31, 2005)

craporadon said:


> 3. Is there an actual database with magazine articles and possible pictures of the site for these accidents? Keeping a really good digital catalog of all these would be very helpful to the community and to future generations of people who might be trying to learn from history and make the sport safer.
> 
> 3a. Where is more info available on these? Do you have to google each one yourself or is anyone collecting info and storing it in a central place?


The American Whitewater website has a database; that's what Chuck Walbridge keeps. If you go to the site (which is apparently down at the moment, or my browser is acting up), you can see the accident reports (up to several years worth). Some have links, some do not.

Unfortunately, most of the links are sketchy on details. 

Anyone can report an accident (injury, near-miss, or fatality), and the Buzz community could help spread that word. THe more details, the more knowledge can be learned.


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## nmalozzi (Jun 19, 2007)

danger said:


> has there been a fatality on a commercial brown's canyon trip from a head injury? or any section of the ark? or any river? i've never heard of a commercial raft customer dying from a head injury.
> 
> dan


The company I worked for in PA did not supply helmets to their customers. Although in the 30yr history of the company the only death was a heart attack, I'd be willing to bet most of our injuries were due to blows to the head. Whether the blow was from falling out of the raft, slipping getting in or out, slipping walking to put in/from take out, or taking a T-grip to the head. 

A fellow guide had to help helicopter out a customer who took a shot to the head. 

So even though there aren't many documented deaths from commercial rafters hitting their head, it seems like all companies would want to keep helmets on them. Even some cheap-o ones, anything to just keep the morons from falling over and bleeding all over the place.


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## mvhyde (Feb 3, 2004)

*Let us not forget stupidity*

My kid and I were paddling down at Confluence about 2 weeks ago, in the course of taking a break, some father put his 9 or 10 year old on a tiny float tube (plastic thingy for a baby) without a helmet or PFD. The kid flipped and almost became a flush drowning as he got recirc'd 4 or 5 times in the 4th drop down. I dove in after him and had to fight to get to the side where my kid helped get him out of the water. The victim was hysterical and had water coming out. We got most of it out of him, but he got a lung full for sure. I think the kid's dad took him to the hospital. But the guy looked at me like I was from another planet for yelling at him about helmets and PFDs. The water wasn't all that high, maybe 600 cfs, but it sure isn't a place to swim at that level as the eddies are pretty strong for a kid or adult.


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## nicmayer (May 19, 2007)

Jay H said:


> yeah you're right, it was browns where I saw the no-helmets


 
I think anyone under 18 should be required to wear a helmet but once you are over 18 you are an adult. If you choose not to wear a helmet that is your choice as long as the people on commercial raft trips are armed with the knowledge of potential danger. If an adult who has all the knowledge of potential risk chooses not to wear a helmet and harm comes from that then that should be chalked up to an adult making a bad decision. It sure is easy to blame commercial companies for their clients not wearing helmets but the adults need to take some responsibility too. I wear mine regardless but it is a choice I make.


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## craven_morhead (Feb 20, 2007)

re: rafts and helmets, sure, some of the culpability belongs on the shoulders of the people in the raft, but to be fair, they're often entering a pretty foreign environment. Think of all of the raft customers who think that they won't get wet or that it's completely appropriate to wear blue jeans. Lots of them just don't really understand what they're in for.


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## Randaddy (Jun 8, 2007)

If driving is statistically more dangerous than rafting, why don't we wear helmets to drive?

Sure helmets are a good idea, but in class 1-3 water in many places I'd hardly call them necessary. I sometimes stop wearing mine on class 3 raft trips when the water drops. I don't think that makes me stupid; I'm an experienced and educated guide. 

There are also legal and safety reasons that some companies don't require them. A helmet can be a hazard if the chin strap gets loose (which it does on so many of the old helmets commercial outfitters use) and end up being a strap around the neck. They can also add to the already disorienting array of stuff that customers are wearing. In a swim, I'd like to know that the customer has peripheral vision and can respond to things like ropes flying at their head. 

Many outfitters tell people that helmets are available if they choose to wear them. 2 of the companies I worked for told me not to specifically recommend helmets but to let the guests know that I prefer to wear one and that they are available. 

It still baffles me how many Texans will bring little kids and not make their kids wear a helmet. That said I still think it should be optional at the lower end of the spectrum...


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## craven_morhead (Feb 20, 2007)

R-Daddy, don't your arguments against helmet wear in >III water apply to adults and the children of texans equally?


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## nmalozzi (Jun 19, 2007)

I'd have no problem having them be optional on the lower end of the danger spectrum. I was simply stating that it wasn't even an option at the company I worked for. I had at least 1 or more customers on every trip asking me why us guides were wearing them, and they were never offered.

I usually just told them I wore one to protect myself from the customers, not the river, haha.


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## mania (Oct 21, 2003)

nmalozzi said:


> I'd have no problem having them be optional on the lower end of the danger spectrum. I was simply stating that it wasn't even an option at the company I worked for. I had at least 1 or more customers on every trip asking me why us guides were wearing them, and they were never offered.


wow. on our class II-III run we dont require helmets but never say no if a customer wants one. the guides never wear them.

on our class IV-V or on any IK trip we require them at all times.

last time i was on the grand I got to the put in and realized i forgot my helmet which i like to wear for the big drops. oh well it was fine.

mania


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## oopsiflipped (May 9, 2006)

danger said:


> has there been a fatality on a commercial brown's canyon trip from a head injury? or any section of the ark? or any river? i've never heard of a commercial raft customer dying from a head injury.
> 
> dan


I think there was a head trauma fatality on a low water upper gauley ducky trip in the last few years.


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## l-dot (Dec 20, 2003)

Hey Nick, Aren't the guides there in kayaks? That would be the why the guides where helmets. That is how we did it when I trained on the lehigh.


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## DanOrion (Jun 8, 2004)

nmalozzi said:


> I'd have no problem having them [helmets] be optional on the lower end of the danger spectrum.


What, like paddling on a lake...ooooh! sorry couldn't resist.  Great photo, but getcha some whitewater in the background mahn!


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## danger (Oct 13, 2003)

it seems that a lot of people pick up on small inconsequential aspects of personal protective equipment and miss the bigger picture. many (most?) of the deaths that occur on rivers and creeks are from drowning or cardiac cause. so instead of requiring everyone to wear a helmet, let's stress the importance of swim ability. maybe have a swim test like some of the companies on gore canyon. also, stress self rescue instead of the whitewater swim position. on the gauley some of the big companies have a safety video produced by professional actors that portray the risks of whitewater rafting and what to do in the case of an emergency. this provides a consistent message for the guests.


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## leesonka (May 29, 2008)

do not forget about the lady who fell into beaver creek, after her horse stumbled. I believe she still has not been found. I know she was not boatin', but just shows ya how quickly things can go bad around swift water. Hopefully we can all learn from these accidents. Be safe y'all!


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## deepsouthpaddler (Apr 14, 2004)

I completely disagree on the no helmet issue for class III or easy water. I look at risk as the combination of probability and consequences. Yes the probability of a rock hit to the head in a class III rafting trip may be low, but the consequences are very high. A hit to the head can knock anyone unconcious and that can lead to a fatality. Why mess around with not wearing a helmet when 1) they are cheap, 2) they are easy to wear and fit, and 3) they can save lives. I really don't understand the mentality. Also, in a raft you can get hit in the head by oars (seen it happen), or you could get hit in the head on a frame / cooler.

The mentality that I feel like its safe so I will lower my level of protection is what gets people hurt very often. People underestimate consequences and percieve the risks to be lower than they actually are. I am a proponent of always wearing the proper safety gear, beacuse it will always lower your risk. 

If I took family or friends on any raft trip, I would ask them to wear a helmet.

As to why not wear helmets in cars, I have air bags and seat belts. Race car drivers wear helmets as do many folks who do the more intense driving sports.


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## danger (Oct 13, 2003)

ian, i'm not saying don't wear a helmet when rafting. i wear a helmet when i raft browns. probably don't need to but it's a habit. what i am saying is that requiring companies that raft brown's to start requiring their customers to wear helmets won't save lives. however having having said customers jump out in a calm stretch and swim across the river might familiarize them with whitewater swimming technique and what to expect if they fall in and in turn might save a life. education needs to focus on the cause of deaths not the possible cause of deaths.


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## Randaddy (Jun 8, 2007)

danger said:


> on the gauley some of the big companies have a safety video produced by professional actors that portray the risks of whitewater rafting and what to do in the case of an emergency.


HAHAHAHA!!!! I'll try to upload it tonight. I'm one of these professional actors. We were sooooo blazed and I played the role of "Rescue Randy" the safety specialist. Best time I had out there....









As for the question above about Texans and Texan children, I don't think they should wear helmets _OR _PFDs!

"Here I sit, cheeks a flexin', giving birth to another Texan."


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## nmalozzi (Jun 19, 2007)

mania said:


> wow. on our class II-III run we dont require helmets but never say no if a customer wants one. the guides never wear them.


Yea the company I worked for didn't even offer them. We had about a dozen nasty old thin plastic helmets in the wet suit room, but normally those were always checked out by new guides who didn't have all their gear yet.

And yes the reason us guides had helmets was because we were in kayaks. Telling the customers the helmets were to protect me from them was more fun then explaining the dangers of kayaking.


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## nmalozzi (Jun 19, 2007)

DanOrion said:


> What, like paddling on a lake...ooooh! sorry couldn't resist.  Great photo, but getcha some whitewater in the background mahn!


Maybe if I get bored at work today I'll photoshop some whitewater into the background since my girlfriend keeps forgetting her camera when I do get on some.


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## COUNT (Jul 5, 2005)

I find it interesting that it breaks down as:

Unknown- 7
I- 2
II- 2
III- 10
IV- 9
V- 2
VI- 0
Dam- 1

The high numbers in III and IV most certainly reflect:

-The increased number of private paddlers in that skill range
-The high volume of commercial trips on III-IV
-The somewhat relaxed and complacent attitude some people take to easier rivers.

On a sidenote, as you scroll up the thread, most users have no avatars and in the rest you see 1 cool waterfall, a Nealy, Homer, Mr. T, and a guy in a hazmat suit. Can you really give the guy shit for being the only one with a picture of him with his kayak, even if it is by a lake? 

COUNT


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## deepsouthpaddler (Apr 14, 2004)

I agree with your point about swimming practice Dan. I think what you are saying is raft customers seem to be getting into the most trouble when they swim and flush drowning results. I agree that swim practice would help with preventing some of these accidents.

I still do not agree about not wearing helmets. Helmets are cheap, easy to wear, and WILL save someones life. I see this mentality a lot in the rafting community that "it easy water, I don't need my helmet, pfd etc". I saw a guy rafting on the middle fork of the salmon take of his PFD in the slack water class II, and put in on before every "big" rapid. 

My point is you never know when bad things will happen and if you don't have the right safety gear on all the time, you will eventually get caught in a bad situation without it. Just because its class II doesn't mean you can't hit your head on a rock, oar, frame etc. This is of course rare, but if it saves just one persons life (which I feel it eventually will) then isn't it worth it? 

Another good point was that how many people are called flush drowning who may have hit their head? We might never know.

Anyway, I'm not saying get everyone on class II a $1000 drysuit, I'm saying give the rafters a cheapie helmet to protect one of the most sensitve spots on the body.


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## Randaddy (Jun 8, 2007)

Deepsouth:

You're clearly wise beyond your years, but do you think people should HAVE TO wear helmets, or do you think people simply SHOULD wear helmets? There's a big difference. Do you believe in helmet laws for motorcylists? I don't, because it involves choice and risks only their own skulls....


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## DanOrion (Jun 8, 2004)

COUNT said:


> Can you really give the guy shit for being the only one with a picture of him with his kayak, even if it is by a lake?
> COUNT


Can and did, but feeling pretty bad about it now. I think I need a hug.

<---For your viewing pleasure, Nealy's hole rider has been replaced with weak downriver playboating.


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## heliodorus04 (May 31, 2005)

Randaddy said:


> Deepsouth:
> 
> You're clearly wise beyond your years, but do you think people should HAVE TO wear helmets, or do you think people simply SHOULD wear helmets? There's a big difference. Do you believe in helmet laws for motorcylists? I don't, because it involves choice and risks only their own skulls....


I'm a libertarian at heart - people SHOULD wear helmets, and people SHOULD be allowed to choose not to. 

My assertion is that rafting companies should require them for commercial trips.  Not requiring them is negligent from the standpoint of protecting their business, IMO. I'm not sure if it's negligent from a safety standpoint, but I'm sure some lawyers and juries can be convinced that it is... 

Commercial rafting is a case study in statistics, know what I mean? Improbable events become much more probable when the number of statistical events jumps, and tht's what raft companies are dealing with.


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## nmalozzi (Jun 19, 2007)

heliodorus04 said:


> I'm a libertarian at heart - people SHOULD wear helmets, and people SHOULD be allowed to choose not to.
> 
> My assertion is that rafting companies should require them for commercial trips. Not requiring them is negligent from the standpoint of protecting their business, IMO. I'm not sure if it's negligent from a safety standpoint, but I'm sure some lawyers and juries can be convinced that it is...
> 
> Commercial rafting is a case study in statistics, know what I mean? Improbable events become much more probable when the number of statistical events jumps, and tht's what raft companies are dealing with.


I agree 100%. A private boater should in fact wear all safety equipment, but should also have the choice to not wear it. In my opinion your a fool if you don't, but by you sure have the choice to be a fool. 

Rafting companies on the other hand are an entirely different ball of wax. Personally, if I was an owner I'd want helmets, PFDs, and proper footwear on every customer. Simply to cover my ass.

BTW: Count, thanks for the backup, haha.


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## deepstroke (Apr 3, 2005)

Canoeist dies after craft capsizes in Trinity River in southern Dallas | Dallas Morning News | News for Dallas, Texas | Dallas News


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## lmaciag (Oct 10, 2003)

*Lodore*

9NEWS.com | Colorado's Online News Leader | Boy drowns on Green River rafting trip

Very sad. My condolences.

Laurie


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## surgass01 (Jul 11, 2008)

*Justin Brindley*

Justin was on the rocks when we passed by him. He was not wearing a helmet. I'm guessing even if he would have had one on while on the river he would have taken it off when he was standing there. It was very hot 95 or so. Speculation is that he was walking on the rocks w/o shoes because they were lost he slipped and hit his head and fell unconscious into the river. We found him with two head injuries one over his eye and the other on the back of his head. If he obtained them before he fell in or after we will never know.


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## huckafreewheel (Apr 3, 2006)

On the subject of should vs. required to wear helmets...its not the dude with the head injury that has to deal with the head injury. Everyone should be required to wear helmets. You can't have whitewater without rocks and I will personally bitch out anyone on any river with rocks sticking out for not wearing a brain bucket.


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## extremekevin (Jul 20, 2008)

Lets put it this way. People are suspose to wear seat belts in case their car crashes. Chances are low that might happen, but if it did, and they were wearing their seatbelt, then all they might have is a bruise or two. The same goes with helmets. The chances are low you will hit a rock with your head, but if you do, that helmet might save your life. 

There is also the counter arguement that helmets might actually add to fatalities. Helmets can also give people a sense of "Oh I'm invisible, nothing will stop me with this helmet on," so they decide to go raft, kayak, canoe, or whatever down a stretch WAY above their ability. What I'm trying to say is, you can wear all the protective devices known to man kind and still die. Just because you wear a helmet doesn't mean you won't die. 

I agree with the swim ability check idea, even for lower class rivers. Once when you fall into the river, nothing will help save your life more than yourself!!! People need to understand that rafting is fun, but has dangers, just like driving or walking down the street. Nobody will know what to do unless they are trained to do it. Take ten minutes out of everyone's lives and show a video, do a flip drill, or something like that!!! Either that or go to elitchs and spend lots of money on something that is overpriced, wait in long lines, and still go on something that can cause you to die.


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## hojo (Jun 26, 2008)

*Shoes*



surgass01 said:


> Speculation is that he was walking on the rocks w/o shoes because they were lost he slipped and hit his head and fell unconscious into the river.


It is interesting to note that a great deal of moving water drowning victims lose their shoes in the current. This has been my experience with drownings on the Mississippi. I'm referring to shoes and not booties here. Not that this has any impact on this particular situation...


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## Randaddy (Jun 8, 2007)

huckafreewheel said:


> On the subject of should vs. required to wear helmets...its not the dude with the head injury that has to deal with the head injury. Everyone should be required to wear helmets. You can't have whitewater without rocks and I will personally bitch out anyone on any river with rocks sticking out for not wearing a brain bucket.


Required? That's a bad word buddy....

Do you wear body armor around the house? Most people die in the home...


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## Jwss (May 21, 2008)

Private vs. Commercial, thats the real issue here. Commercial customers come to a company looking for guidance and experience. Helmets should be required for commercial guests, why not, especially on smaller, more rocky rivers. The opportunity not only to hit rocks while in the river is there, but how about being thrown around in the boat and all of those T grips?? The insurance company would be happier with your company, wouldnt they, knowing that you as a company are taking all safety precautions that are in your control. Now, private boaters of any craft on any water, but especially on rivers thats another matter. Lets just chalk it up to natural selection. The gene pool does not need people who do not feel and understand the instinct inside of them that is telling them to survive and evolve...apparently SENSE is not as COMMON as we would all like to believe.


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## Theophilus (Mar 11, 2008)

Randaddy said:


> Required? That's a bad word buddy....
> 
> Do you wear body armor around the house? Most people die in the home...


If most people died in the home from gunshot wounds, I'd wear body armor. It seems relative.


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## basil (Nov 20, 2005)

Any more word on what happened with the 9 year old kid on Gates of Lodore?


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## riverrat (Jan 20, 2007)

deepsouthpaddler, I agree with you that many people underestimate the river, especially class II's. but I don't think your quote can be followed to it's logical conclusion. "My point is you never know when bad things will happen and if you don't have the right safety gear on all the time, you will eventually get caught in a bad situation without it. Just because its class II doesn't mean you can't hit your head on a rock, oar, frame etc. This is of course rare, but if it saves just one persons life (which I feel it eventually will) then isn't it worth it?" I agree that bad things can happen anywhere, but...people die every year from slipping in the shower and hitting their head on something and then drowning. (don't know it for a fact, but i imagine) Although by wearing booties, a helmet, and a life-jacket may save someone's life in the shower, I don't do it, and would probably think anyone who did was paranoid.

About the guy taking off his life jacket...a class II float is the perfect way to get rid of my "sports bra" tan that I get from wearing it on harder stuff. just kiddin.


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