# New First Descent in Phoenix, Arizona



## Hydroholic (Mar 7, 2006)

*regarding the 1st d on upper tonto*

my friend mike and I ran the upper section of tonto in march of 2005, (horton creek down) which is way before these guys claiming it and I know it has been run before us. (please be careful when making claims on first ds). as for salome, you guys nabbed a good one that we were getting ready to hit, good for you. one question, where did you guys put in on salome? or far did you guys walk up the creek?


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## codyhoward (Feb 26, 2007)

Hydroholic, i'll clarify that story on Huckin Huge for you...that description is the FIRST d. 
That particular descent description and photos are from Jan 05...reference Tyler Williams new book Paddling Arizona for further clarification on that run and the first descent. 

-Cody


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## Hydroholic (Mar 7, 2006)

*first d*

i know it sucks once you claim somthing on paper, but let me clarify it one more time; we didint even get the first d on that run. IT WAS RUN BACK IN THE LATE 90's


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## codyhoward (Feb 26, 2007)

Damn i really hate to start this again....reference:

http://www.mountainbuzz.com/viewtopic.php?t=12639&highlight=huckinhuge+com
(Props to to both crews there-i wish i could have been there!)

But the particular run you are talking about (horton creek down) has been run. In fact it was run by Jim McComb and Rob Rieterman in 1993. These are the two responsible for my kayaking obsession. They ran from horton creek all they way down to Tonto's Lower Box. One of Arizona's best multi-day creek runs, if not the best. The name of that run is "Tonto's Hells Gate". 

This particular run (Headwaters Tonto) see: http://huckinhuge.com/Tonto_Creek_Headwaters_Story.html

It starts from above I206 down to bear flats (christopher creek's take out) Bear Flats. In fact, you have to run the lower box if you want to run full Christopher. And it had never been done, due to little to no water. 

Enjoy the creeks...they'll be flown soon.

-Cody


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## codyhoward (Feb 26, 2007)

(sorry) haigler....typo....that was the one run in 93. you are correct with horton.


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## Hydroholic (Mar 7, 2006)

*my bad*

my bad, i did misread the article, but seriously, there have been underground descents of creeks in az for a long time. most kayakers from az never really paid attention to claiming any runs until an article appeared in paddler'about west clear creeks' first d in 98. and then the chris creek story on the buzz. 

believe me, there have been descents of many creeks in az, but because of some legal issues and the fact that information was never passed on like it is now; first ds were unknown til now. i started paddling in a mirage and learned how to paddle on the verde and salt; the first play boat (whiplash) i bought was from a guy (who will remain nameless) who first deed the friggen upper upper, or as some know the flying v gorge of the salt. he was talking about tonto (in its' full glory) back around 96, 97. so believe what you want


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## codyhoward (Feb 26, 2007)

for sure....and there are still more to come....thing is, one great paddler, Dugald Bremmer, who tragically pasted on the Silver Fork American, ran most of this solo....pretty cool story. Check out Paddling AZ and read the history of paddling in Arizona....documented from The Beginning from the most notable paddlers and reference when it comes to boating and what not in AZ (tyler williams and jim mccomb) 

oh, and i p.m.'ed you another message....

-Cody Howard


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## bob gnarley (Mar 23, 2007)

*salami creek?*

Sorry to bust your bubble, but my Friends and I slayed that turkey back in 01', in pack rafts. I am shure she wasn't a virgin then either. In fact I think the first D belongs to a tweeker from punkin center, an inertube and a case of beer. The thing is we were so immpressed with the canyon that we decided to keep it on the DL out of respect for it's beauty. Arizona is full of those type of paddlers so look before you shoot next time. P.S. your video looks awsome I loved it. NIce job keep up the good work. If you wana see some more AZ boatin video look no further.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRy_o_paVAQ
All Best man 



codyhoward said:


> warning: the video is short.
> 
> i just submitted the footy of our recent first descent of Salome Creek, AZ. Sweet sweet granite...amazing run. Great first d.
> 
> ...


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## codyhoward (Feb 26, 2007)

*.*

I love it! I think I would enjoy nice beer as i swim class V.....lower salt tubers gone extreme....props


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## ski_kayak365 (Dec 7, 2003)

Bob,

I'm not here for the 1st D stuff. That youtube video though....those guys are nuts for one, but where is that creek. It looks sweet and fun to run.

Thanks,
Josh


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## bshoward (Mar 27, 2007)

*.*

it doesnt count if your in a gay raft. grow some balls and do it in a kayak.


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## steven (Apr 2, 2004)

"bshoward" nice 1st post. i think it does count actually.


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## bob gnarley (Mar 23, 2007)

*bs?*

Thanks Steven
In fact I think it counts twice, once for the first raft D and once more for the first swimming D. The second bieng a far more challenging and honorable task. Not that we are even claiming a first here either. Some kayakers are ethnocentric (bscody) and seem to be blind to any other form of boating that takes place on the same bodies of water. See the very root of kayaking is a method of transportation, a way for seal hunters to chase down their prey in the open ocean. Granted this is a far more romantic orgin then the intertube of a tractor tire but the end result is the same. Both the lowly raft and sacered kayak are methods of transportation. Infact an argument might be made that a intertuber/rafter enlightens themselves to a higher level by interacting with the water on a more primative level. See the thing is in kayak you use hard edges and hole speed to navigate a course across the top of the water. In a small raft or tube you are at the mercy of the water; you most travel with this wholy element on it's timless journey down through geology. If the river you chose to join become difficult and choked with boulders and your raft floods and flips you have no choice but to join the liquids of your body with those of the current all around you; and this my freind is counts. Every breath counts every strainer in the path before you counts. Unless you have gills and fins on your neck and back it counts. My toes aren't webbed my skin is not a mucus membrain, I just happen to be compleatly tranfixed with water in al it's forms and enjoy any chance I have to share anything with that beautiful composition of hydrogen and oxogen we call water. Dose that count?


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## bob gnarley (Mar 23, 2007)

*type O*

Cody-sorry about the name swap. The previous email was directed at 
(bshoward) my fault.


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## bshoward (Mar 27, 2007)

*,*

about the previous post.....i just have a very very sore spot from tubers on the salt and find it hard to accept them into the whitewater community. times are changing.


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## bob gnarley (Mar 23, 2007)

*take it easy*

No worries howard. Hope it isn't a Deliverance style sore spot?
Anyway, I am getting kciked off the buzz so whenever you guys want to do some boating (rafting or kayaking) drop me line. [email protected]
Cody, nice to meet you hope we can paddle this spring. Cheers


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## codyhoward (Feb 26, 2007)

hhmmm, i'm kind of at a loss of words here...

between all the posts, i'm still trying to figure out what just all happened.

Anyways, Bret, brother....i'm going to the Grand Cyn. I guess i talk to you late saturday night...boating sunday maybe?? txt or pm me.


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## bob gnarley (Mar 23, 2007)

*fossil creek*

Good news, I am not kicked off the buzz. Thought all you AZ river people might enjoy this new favorite. My friends and I had a great time on Fossil creek this spring. Springtime in Arizona is hard to beat. Howard bros,.. take a look at the left side line on the dam. It was a hard hit but my Alpacka took it quite nice. Did you guys start at the top on your line? I didn't quite sack up for the full ride and put in on the ledge. I was there one time when there was about 100+cfs going over the spilway and the line looked real good. Ps beware of undercut travertine formations. 
Cheers Bob
and enjoy. Todd this is not spam! |
\|/
V
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMkOlAQ4ZyQ


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## tuberslickmysweatyballs (Sep 24, 2005)

bshoward said:


> it doesnt count if your in a gay raft. grow some balls and do it in a kayak.


ah,well...karma will come back to bite you in the ass when you score that GC permit but nobody with a raft will run support for you.

suck it, tea bagger.


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## bshoward (Mar 27, 2007)

*.*

already been on gc with a couple rafts and they closed off permits for the time being


bret


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## tuberslickmysweatyballs (Sep 24, 2005)

so natrually you shit on the people who helped you out and made your trips happen.


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## bshoward (Mar 27, 2007)

*.*

i guess so...not sure why you are so bitter bout all this.


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