# Shared Camp Gear and Setup



## Andy H. (Oct 13, 2003)

Delegate out the group gear when you're getting the trip together so you're not the only one bringing stuff, even if you've got it all. If you need someone to carry your gear, make sure they know well in advance. Your boating mates should have enough between them that no one should have to bring everything, if they're experienced and don't have their own gear, you're boating with the wrong people.

On my trips, I typically ask folks what gear they can bring, people volunteer, and if there is anything not claimed a week out, I ask folks if they can bring this or that item. Then they're responsible for carrying that gear and setting it up in camps unless they designate someone else to do so. This has been standard among lots of folks I've boated with. If Bob brings the kitchen box, he carries it on his boat, sets it up, and shows that night's cook crew what's in it. If Joanne brings the stove, she carries it, sets it up, and shows the cook crew how it works.

If you set the expectations for trip gear, cost, trip type (wild party or kid-friendly?), etc. early and make sure everyone knows them your trips will go much more smoothly. Remember: "unexpressed expectations are premeditated resentments."

-AH


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## jeffro (Oct 13, 2003)

You need better friends.


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## 50119 (Jan 17, 2016)

Sounds as though they need a refreser in the Little Red Hen parable - but as "adults" most likely would not appreciate the thought. That came to mind - just read to the grandkids last week.

It could be worse, someone could have complained about the equipment and your organizational abilities. Yes there's a personal experience there. I agree with jeffro.


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## zaczac4fun (Mar 21, 2018)

I bring a lot of trip gear too, not because other's don't have it, but because I don't mind, I like my gear, have the biggest boat, and everything already has a place on it (why reinvent the wheel). 
I used to find myself stuck in your situation. What I found helps immensely, if you still want to carry a lot of the group gear, is to set expectations the first day, at the first camp, right off the bat. 
As TL I'll do it, or the TL will do it for me: after everyone is pulled up and tied off: "Hey everyone, before we get to unloading personal gear, please give me a hand unloading the group gear!" and then I'll unstrap and pass off all the group gear to the line of volunteers. As they carry it up, they usually try to set it up, and I'll offer pointers if a hand is needed. In the morning, the process reverses, but usually without the announcement and the gear ends up in a pile on the beach in front of my boat (like most captains, I'm the only one allowed to rig the boat  ). Typically the reminder is only needed the first day, and now, since most of the group has been with me for a few years, it's not usually needed.


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## craven_morhead (Feb 20, 2007)

Seems like this is usually an issue with less-experienced joiners. In that situation, don't be afraid to become a dictator. As others have said, pre-planning spreadsheets are good to sort out who is bringing what. Also use that opportunity to let people know what group gear will live on what boats. When you're rigging and unrigging, give people jobs, particularly if you see them standing around. "Hey Bob, you need something to do? Sling me that red drybag, and then fetch the fire pan out of the truck." Rinse and repeat.


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## B4otter (Apr 20, 2009)

I'm in zaczac4fun's situation, like my gear and it all has a home. All I need is someone on shore to assist, and then several someones to scurry it around. Pretty much everything I run is straightforward so no problems setup or tear down, the one exception I make is I want to set up my stove and blaster. I figure most folk can handle on/off, even light the burners (flint lighters for torches work great, carry extra flints!) but I want to connect and disconnect the hoses... lot of experienced campers don't understand propane POL/OPD chicanery or appreciate what sand can do to brand new connectors/valves. Takes 2 minutes either way (connecting or disconnecting) and that way I can make sure hoses aren't too close to burners, monitor amount remaining in tanks, etc.
I'm old and have given up on ammos (except for groovers). Pretty much everything I have breaks down into sub-30 pound loads, my kitchen for 16 fits into two plastic boxes about 15X12X10 (that go in a "dry" box or under front hatch, depending on the day's rapids), the dutches (10&12, alu) nest in a snare drum carry bag w/zipper closure together with pizza pans for heat reflection and gloves, tongs, etc. Griddles go in a canvas carry bag, everything dishwash-related fits in one duffel. Break it down as you age or you will...
Took a couple on a Grand trip once who showed up with their 14' Hyside and had no room for group gear... they haven't been back. Cat boaters have been other offenders, I sympathize with performance versus weight tradeoff so try to give them bulky but not heavy stuff if that's an issue. On longer trips once a groover or trash ammo/whatever is full it's actually a relief to pack it away and know you won't have to rig/de-rig it again until takeout...


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## 50119 (Jan 17, 2016)

Priorities are the key, especially on the Grand with rental gear and new boaters. Still there are take away's/reminders for privates also:

1. As stated in other posts - communicate.
2. The kitchen, groover, fire pan, hand wash & etc., are all set up before ANYBODY hauls their personal gear to their LZ for the night. Get the
personal stuff off close to the boats to get to camp gear.
3. The cook's and or dishwashers have first choice on tent site/'s for that night.
4. The "main" gear boat if there is one deserves all the attention for unloading and loading each day - give that guy/gal a break. The last grand trip
the person assigned to me to load unload everyday no matter who rode with me that day on rotation - I elected to re-assign him to assist with the
"kitchen boat" swamping for the 21 day's. He was just in my way truth be told.
5. Leave political bagage at home.


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## OregonianRG (Jun 14, 2010)

I like to bring all the gear. That way I know we won't be missing anything, especially in the kitchen. If people refuse to carry any of the group gear, they usually don't get invited back. I like to give people the garbage test also. I once ask a woman to carry 1/2 bag of garbage after the first night. She refused, saying her boat was full, even though she had the lightest packed boat on the trip. I didn't boat with her again. I don't really care when the kitchen is set up, especially if you get to camp early on a hot day. Most people rush to set up their tents, which is fine, especially if they are a family. I usually set my bedroll up last, so I can stay away from the snorers. I do like to pick the kitchen site and arrange the tables. Most people I boat with are very helpful and will carry anything they can. I do have a question as to when a child is considered old enough help out. It really pisses my off to see teenage kids doing nothing the whole trip and their parents don't mind.


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## cnalder (Jul 7, 2016)

OregonianRG said:


> I like to bring all the gear. That way I know we won't be missing anything, especially in the kitchen. If people refuse to carry any of the group gear, they usually don't get invited back. I like to give people the garbage test also. I once ask a woman to carry 1/2 bag of garbage after the first night. She refused, saying her boat was full, even though she had the lightest packed boat on the trip. I didn't boat with her again. I don't really care when the kitchen is set up, especially if you get to camp early on a hot day. Most people rush to set up their tents, which is fine, especially if they are a family. I usually set my bedroll up last, so I can stay away from the snorers. I do like to pick the kitchen site and arrange the tables. Most people I boat with are very helpful and will carry anything they can. I do have a question as to when a child is considered old enough help out. It really pisses my off to see teenage kids doing nothing the whole trip and their parents don't mind.


This year my kids are 9 and 12. They have been helping for many years. We have a rule that once boats are unloaded they can play. They also help with dishes morning and night.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

I told my kid on her first multiday the same thing my Dad told me the first time I went with him hunting in the backcountry: "You pitch in and you'll always be invited back."

The points chiefstilh20 posted are fairly "standard" or should be. Even if your TL runs things slightly different, start out by assuming that's the norm and pitch in. If you don't know, ask!


If you are the TL, you can easily put these points in the group email:
1. The kitchen, groover, fire pan, hand wash & etc., are all set up before ANYBODY hauls their personal gear to their LZ for the night. Get the personal stuff off close to the boats to get to camp gear.
2. The cook's and or dishwashers have first choice on tent site/'s for that night.
3. The "main" gear boat if there is one deserves all the attention for unloading and loading each day - give that guy/gal a break.
4. Leave political discussions at home

As AndyH said, IMHO it's easiest to delegate and lay out your expectations well before anyone gets to the river. 2nd easiest to do the first day of the trip. After the horses have fled the barn, it's a million times harder.

If you or another have the big gear boat, lay out the expectation that everyone helps unload and load.
If you don't want all the gear on one boat, it's easiest to delegate while at home. Have others responsible for specifics: kitchen box, stove, propane, fire pan/ash, hand wash, groover, etc. Then they can be responsible for that item for the duration of the trip. If they don't have a specific item, you can provide the item, but make them responsible for carrying/rigging/loading/unloading it. 

When it's known beforehand, you shouldn't ever get the "I don't have space" excuse on the ramp while rigging.


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## Albuquerque Doug (Sep 22, 2014)

I'm kind of with the folks who like bringing the gear! I've had to discipline myself, when I'm the TL, to let other folks contribute because they like their gear, too--that's why they bought it--and it makes the trip seem more like a group endeavor. You should be familiar with what kind of boats folks are bringing. On two trips this year, I brought my big cat so I could be Gear Pig. On one, I brought my 12' Wave Destroyer, which can carry me, my personal gear, a small cooler, a couple water jugs and that's it. But I'd cleared all that with the TL who knew that, if needed, I'd swap out and bring the big girl. Kayakers are notorious for bringing all sorts of crap for someone else to carry. But if I arrived at the put-in and was surprised that someone was bringing a little boat or had it filled with personal stuff to the point they couldn't carry group gear, I would put that on me. Should have known going in. And other folks are right, too--at the put-in, you need to set the standard that the kitchen and groover are set up before any personal sites get going, and kitchen take down is everyone's responsibility. One good rule of thumb is that personal tents sites and gear have to be taken down and brought to the beach before the residents of that tent get breakfast. Then, all hands are available for help later on.


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

I have a 10 point system that works very well for me, but no one else seems to like it. I don't know why.

1) Arrive at camp well after all the boats carrying the camp and kitchen gear. This assures that the work is already done.

2) Have a stash of cold beer in your own well-disguised cooler that you do not allow anyone else to even know about. Keep other beer in a drag bag and always fail to actually drag it by absent-mindedly leaving it in the rowing compartment. This insures that the beer you offer to others will be warm, and they'll stop asking you for beer.

3) If you happen to be asked to set up the groover, set it up near the kitchen in full view of everyone. Then, when someone asks about "privacy", tell them there really is no need for privacy on a river trip, instead it is a good time to lose your silly hang ups. This insures that you will not be asked to set up the groover again.

4) If asked to take down the groover, do it at first light. Set it in front of the boat that carries it (hopefully not your own). Then when someone complains about breaking down the groover too early, point at it. This insures that you will not have to take down the groover again.

5) If you actually get stuck on some cook team, politely explain that you are a poor cook and will gladly do all the dishes in exchange for not cooking. Then drink way too much during dinner prep so that you pass out shortly after eating, rendering you unable to wash dishes. This not only insures that you will not be allowed to wash dishes again, but will also relieve you of cooking duties as you will be kicked off the team.

6) If some wise guy thinks its going to rain and insists on putting up a tarp, file your objection with the TL vociferously and in such a manner as to discourage anyone from helping the paranoid lout with the tarp. Then put up your one person tent in the best family tent spot you can find, quickly, before it rains, which it's obviously going to do very soon. This insures that no one will find out you have an advanced degree in tarpology.

7) When rigging, always be certain to complain loudly about the amount of gear you have to carry and how having such a heavy boat is why you are always last to camp, and does anyone have any ibuprofen please, because you used all yours already taking care of your aching joints. To do this well, always carry a dozen or so various sized dry bags stuffed with crumpled newspapers. They don't weigh much, but it sure looks like you're carrying a lot of stuff.

8) Never volunteer for anything. I learned that in the Army, which of course I volunteered for.

9) Make sure everyone knows exactly how many Grand trips, Selway trips, Middle Fork trips, overseas and South American trips, huge class VI drops and first descents you have done. On about day 3 this will help support your explanation of not doing much of the work, because when your rescue skills and vastly superior whitewater reading and running skills are needed, you will be fresh and not worn out from the daily river trip grind. It doesn't matter that this is Deso. Anything can happen anywhere, anytime.

10) Enjoy solo trips. You're going to be doing lots of them.


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## OregonianRG (Jun 14, 2010)

Excellent points Wadeinthewater. I bet at the takeout you hog the ramp, take your time, drink a couple of beers, accidently put someone's straps in your strap bag, play load music from your truck radio, then take off when you are done without saying goodbye to anyone on the trip.


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## Andy H. (Oct 13, 2003)

OregonianRG said:


> ....then take off when you are done without saying goodbye to anyone on the trip.


....While also "forgetting" to settle up your share of the trip expenses before driving off. Then responding to the "please pay up" email with, "Oh yeah, I meant to pay you but spaced out on that! Man, I was so high when I got to the ramp and you guys were mostly loaded up. Hey, dude, look, it's really no problem but I didn't think you'd be such a slave to the almighty dollar. How about this - I'll just bring you an extra case of beer and some weed on the next trip and we'll be even!"

And if there IS a next trip, and even if the beer DOES show up, it'll be Milwaukee's Best or something else so horrible it should be put back in the horse it came from...


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

OregonianRG said:


> Excellent points Wadeinthewater. I bet at the takeout you hog the ramp, take your time, drink a couple of beers, accidently put someone's straps in your strap bag, play load music from your truck radio, then take off when you are done without saying goodbye to anyone on the trip.


That was completely tongue in cheek, the post was originally posted 15 years ago by a friend on the idahowhitewater yahoo group lol. Just thought this thread needed a little levity!


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## 50119 (Jan 17, 2016)

Andy H. said:


> ....While also "forgetting" to settle up your share of the trip expenses before driving off. Then responding to the "please pay up" email with, "Oh yeah, I meant to pay you but spaced out on that! Man, I was so high when I got to the ramp and you guys were mostly loaded up. Hey, dude, look, it's really no problem but I didn't think you'd be such a slave to the almighty dollar. How about this - I'll just bring you an extra case of beer and some weed on the next trip and we'll be even!"
> 
> And if there IS a next trip, and even if the beer DOES shows up, it'll be Milwaukee's Best or something else so horrible it should be put back in the horse it came from...


Andy, did you have to bring up the "expenses" issue? While attempting to put the experience behind me of "totally funding" a 9 day Grand Salmon trip for an individual last year I have been _patiently_ awaiting a response for 14 months now. Everybody was informed of their share and as adults should be big boy's. I am a practitoner of Mafia revenge (payback between now and 100 years) and finding better friends. Gear responsibilities are just the tip of the iceberg for successful trips. I'll stop there....................


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## LSB (Mar 23, 2004)

To anybody who likes to bring all the gear. Invite me! You bring all the gear I'll bring all the whiskey.


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## B4otter (Apr 20, 2009)

You're going to need a bigger boat...


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## Paco (Aug 3, 2007)

Another way of making sure all the chuckleheads pitch in is to make kitchen set-up/ breakdown part of the work rotation. Cook crew for the night sets up the kitchen. That way they set to set it up how/where they like it. They cook breakfast and break it down.


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## dsrtrat (May 29, 2011)

Paco said:


> Another way of making sure all the chuckleheads pitch in is to make kitchen set-up/ breakdown part of the work rotation. Cook crew for the night sets up the kitchen. That way they set to set it up how/where they like it. They cook breakfast and break it down.
> 
> We do it the same way. Gear gets dropped at the kitchen spot and everyone goes off to select a camp spot, change out of their wet gear, etc.... I have never found a way to keep people from high grading camps so gave up worrying about that aspect of it a long time ago. Not worth the trouble to try and police it.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

dsrtrat said:


> We do it the same way. Gear gets dropped at the kitchen spot and everyone goes off to select a camp spot, change out of their wet gear, etc.... I have never found a way to keep people high grading camps so gave up worrying about that aspect of it a long time ago. Not worth the trouble to try and police it.


I don't spend a lot of time in my tent when I'm not sleeping, so I don't tend to worry much about where everyone else sets up.
Agree with you dsrtrat, the best kitchen spot should be selected first, then the best/obvious groover spot.

As long my spot is level, I'm happy. Frankly, I'll generally set up the groover and help haul the kitchen...from there I'll drink cocktails and usually find a sleeping spot after dinner but before dark.


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