# Grand canyon cell sevice



## jkisraft (Jun 8, 2009)

After a diligent search on the Buzz, I could not locate a post I am sure I read last year regarding cell phone service in the canyon down to about carbon creek or that general area. Any info on if and where service is available in the canyon. Thanks in advance.


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## Electric-Mayhem (Jan 19, 2004)

There was strong 4g signal (at&t) at Lee's last February... but I wasn't really paying attention to where it actually went out of service. I would personally be surprised if it lasted very far into Marble Canyon and certainly gone by Badger. Perhaps intermittently in spots or possibly if you hike up out of the canyon, but at river level no. 

The GC locals on my trip in March swore if you hike a mile or two from Phantom that you got cell signal.

I think its safe to say that you shouldn't rely on cell service once you push off from Lee's Ferry. Maybe it has changed and its more reliable now though.

Be prepared for someone to come in here and make remarks about "unplugging and just enjoying the wilderness" or similar.


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## richp (Feb 27, 2005)

Hi,

There have been reports of a signal when Desert View is in sight, and if you hike out of Phantom to the high ground toward Clear Creek. No personal experience with either location. 

Not that I want it to happen, but I'm amazed somebody hasn't persuaded the Park to let them put a cell repeater at Phantom --
as a public safety measure, of course.

FWIW.

Rich Phillips


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## Electric-Mayhem (Jan 19, 2004)

richp said:


> Hi,
> 
> There have been reports of a signal when Desert View is in sight, and if you hike out of Phantom to the high ground toward Clear Creek. No personal experience with either location.
> 
> ...


I'll be honest... it would take a certain level of stress out of my life if I could do a quick check to see what emails I missed and could call in to a few family members real quick. I know there is a phone down there that you can use calling cards, but that is a pain. 

I know the last time I went down, my mom (who is starting to get forgetful and mixes up dates easily) called the NPS and freaked out because she thought I died or something even though it was a week before I was supposed to be back in Civilization.

Very seriously considering getting an Inreach device before my next trip because of that. I think a sat phone is too expensive, and might freak her out when it drops out.

Interesting to hear that there is a few spots. I guess I could understand the possibility at Desert View.


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## mikepart (Jul 7, 2009)

It you walk past phantom up to the sign for the clear creek trail, you should have weak cell service by the big rock. If not, continue on the clear creek trail up the hill a bit until you have a clear view of the south rim and try again.


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## Electric-Mayhem (Jan 19, 2004)

mikepart said:


> It you walk past phantom up to the sign for the clear creek trail, you should have weak cell service by the big rock. If not, continue on the clear creek trail up the hill a bit until you have a clear view of the south rim and try again.


Cool...good to know. I thought it was further then that. Not to be picky...but is this true for all major carriers?


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## sarahkonamojo (May 20, 2004)

Call me curmudgeon, but please no cell service in the Grand. Please let there be somewhere that social media, NSA, and the tech giants aren't following you. Next thing you know amazon prime drones flying into phantom to deliver party favors.
Sat service is enough. Useful, but expensive enough not to use after every drop.
The end of days.


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## Gremlin (Jun 24, 2010)

Electric-Mayhem said:


> Be prepared for someone to come in here and make remarks about "unplugging and just enjoying the wilderness" or similar.


...and there it is ^^^^^^^^^^


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## almortal (Jun 22, 2014)

sarahkonamojo said:


> Next thing you know amazon prime drones flying into phantom to deliver party favors.


Do you think the drones could deliver ice?


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## Livenswell (Sep 19, 2016)

*Go InReach!*

Very seriously considering getting an Inreach device before my next trip because of that. I think a sat phone is too expensive, and might freak her out when it drops out.

+1 on the InReach suggestion. Good reliable way to keep all your folks in the know on your whereabouts. Our upcoming Canyon trip has decided to go with an InReach device rather than renting an expensive sat phone.


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## daairguy (Nov 11, 2013)

almortal said:


> Do you think the drones could deliver ice?


and more whiskey


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## okieboater (Oct 19, 2004)

On a canyon float in 2012, I had a life threatening injury. I would not be here today if our trip leader had not invested in a sat phone and it worked to get a chopper for my rescue and a ride to Flagstaff. 

I would gladly contribute to a fund to put cell towers in responsible locations to give cell coverage to the entire canyon. 

A lot of injured hikers would be found and search and rescue operations would be orders of magnitude easier if cell phone service was reliable through out the entire canyon. The cell program would probably save it's cost over time just from more efficient use of search and rescue personnel and equipment. 

If you do not want to be bothered by a cell phone, then turn them off. Trip Leaders should enforce responsible use of cell phones in group assemblies.

If the worst thing possible happens (and, it happens many more times in the Canyon than the average person thinks it does), help and or advice is just a few minutes away. 

dave


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## 2tomcat2 (May 27, 2012)

Had a flip in Lava 10 years ago, one passenger lost consciousness, opening airway and rescue breathing revived him, crew had to run all over to gain signal, it was terrifying to the younger passengers. Yes, it does happen more than you know; no, we should not rely
on outside communication...sure is a relief when the helicopter shows up.


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## sarahkonamojo (May 20, 2004)

Satellite phone are adequate. Carpeting the GC with cell reception will not make anyone safer. It will make people more stupid. Accidents happen. The problem is getting you out of the canyon, not getting in contact with the NPS. Relying on technology to solve your immediate life threatening problem, will only lead to less safe and less wise decision making. You will still be running around to get a signal.
Cell service will make the GC more like a front country experience rather than a back country one. If you really need your hand held maybe you should be on a commercial trip?
I have been on trips with inReach. You don't need more than that. We were requesting ice and shrimp for a drop at Indian Creek...


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## daairguy (Nov 11, 2013)

sarahkonamojo said:


> Satellite phone are adequate. Carpeting the GC with cell reception will not make anyone safer. It will make people more stupid. Accidents happen. The problem is getting you out of the canyon, not getting in contact with the NPS. Relying on technology to solve your immediate life threatening problem, will only lead to less safe and less wise decision making. You will still be running around to get a signal.
> Cell service will make the GC more like a front country experience rather than a back country one. If you really need your hand held maybe you should be on a commercial trip?
> I have been on trips with inReach. You don't need more than that. We were requesting ice and shrimp for a drop at Indian Creek...


Really good points here. I also agree that satellite phones are enough in the Grand. Do not go changing the dynamics of this amazing river trip!


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## okieboater (Oct 19, 2004)

I encourage the Buzz community that is interested in GC visits read the book “Over The Edge – Death in the Grand Canyon”. This is a book of facts written in a style that makes for easy reading. This book points out many deaths in the GC that could have been avoided with cell phone coverage. I also recommend Search and Rescue volunteers or professionals look into a device called Evac-U-Splint. This device is technology that makes transport of the seriously injured much easier and safer for the patient and rescue folks.


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## daairguy (Nov 11, 2013)

okieboater said:


> I encourage the Buzz community that is interested in GC visits read the book “Over The Edge – Death in the Grand Canyon”. This is a book of facts written in a style that makes for easy reading. This book points out many deaths in the GC that could have been avoided with cell phone coverage. I also recommend Search and Rescue volunteers or professionals look into a device called Evac-U-Splint. This device is technology that makes transport of the seriously injured much easier and safer for the patient and rescue folks.


That books also states that Grand is not an amusement park, even though people treat it as one.


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## B4otter (Apr 20, 2009)

Do you have any idea how many towers it would take to "... put cell towers in responsible locations to give cell coverage to the entire canyon"? I'm guessing around 30-40, but it's just a guess.
Thankfully, this isn't viable. While wilderness designation for approximately 1.2 million acres of the park has been "pending" for over 35 years (Congress hasn't acted, surprise, surprise...), the backcountry is still managed as _de facto_ wilderness and cell towers don't belong/exist in Wilderness (there are rare exceptions). 
You may only have signal on a sat phone for a few minutes, and you may need to climb up or move downriver to obtain signal in some of the more sheer wall sections, but sat phones and Inreach devices are generally reliable/sufficient to get to NPS dispatch if you have an emergency. 
To answer the original query, my cell phone has worked down to Navajo Bridge and a few times when downriver in the Furnace Flats area or in sight of Desert Watchtower. Phantom Ranch reception has been described, after that you're without reception...
If you have an emergency requiring evacuation, every trip you see is another resource. Pretty sure a few of the outfitters still carry radios, all carry sat phones.


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## phillersk (Apr 24, 2006)

okieboater said:


> I encourage the Buzz community that is interested in GC visits read the book “Over The Edge – Death in the Grand Canyon”. This is a book of facts written in a style that makes for easy reading. This book points out many deaths in the GC that could have been avoided with cell phone coverage. I also recommend Search and Rescue volunteers or professionals look into a device called Evac-U-Splint. This device is technology that makes transport of the seriously injured much easier and safer for the patient and rescue folks.



While I understand your experience in the GC, life threats are part of the risk you take on that kind of a trip. Satellite phones are a more appropriate tool for that terrain. I think you've completely missed the point of "Over The Edge" by trying to say it advocates for cell service. It's a book looking at risk mgmt and human behavior. It discusses how if risks were better mitigated by users you wouldn't need the cell service (which, by the way, wouldn't help most people in the canyon), signs, walls, and eventual rescues. Most people who die at the GC wouldn't be helped by cell phone service according to the book. Most die falling over the edge by their own set of choices. 

The book does not advocate that cell service would help river users. They point out cell service would be most helpful for those above the canyon rim. It's a great read, I think most boaters would enjoy it if you've been down there before. You're also required to have a sat phone, so why worry about cell phones?


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## B4otter (Apr 20, 2009)

Uhm... noncommercial regs "strongly recommend" but don't require a sat phone (yet...).


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## dsrtrat (May 29, 2011)

I just want to relate a first hand experience on communication in Grand Canyon. On My last trip fall of 2017 we had a person badly bang up a knee in Horn Creek rapid. We camped at Trinity Creek camp just downstream of Horn and the next morning it was determined that we needed to evacuate the person. 


Initial contact was by a Inreach device to a person at home who relayed the message to the NPS dispatch. We determined to move down to Granite Camp as it provided better landing zone options.


As this wasn't a critical evacuation we then contacted dispatch with our plans via satellite phone and were given instructions regarding ETA and other instructions about preparing the landing zone. We also used the satellite phone to arrange with friends and family members for transport to the hospital in Flagstaff.


The park had other priority missions to perform so we had to wait about 3 hours for the helicopter to pick up our group member.


The park instructed us via satellite phone to trigger the Inreach when they were on the way to give the crew our GPS location. 
Evacuation was done by the great NPS crew.


Bottom line it was good to have the Inreach AND a satellite phone to facilitate this rescue. The Inreach proved useful for initial contact but the ability of being able to talk real time with NPS dispatch to time our LZ prep and get an ETA was helpful.


I felt that we didn't need any further devices and wouldn't want the Grand Canyon experience altered by the use of cell phones on the river.


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## Electric-Mayhem (Jan 19, 2004)

Having just ordered an Inreach device...I'm curious how you think it would have gone with JUST the Inreach. The SOS button on the side supposedly scrambles an emergency concierge service and the text messenging can be used to talk directly with the NPS to coordinate all of that stuff(I believe). Perhaps it isn't quite as realtime as talking, but it might be clearer and more reliable since I believe the Inreach only needs one satellite.

Just curious. I'll mostly be using it to send messages to my mom since she tends to worry (as I said already I think). Honestly, I'll probably use it to coordinate work once I get off the river. I promise to be descreet and not use it around the campfire.


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## mattman (Jan 30, 2015)

I don't think GCNPS can receive the text format, so info does need to be relayed via a friend back in civilization, at least that is what I believe the Ranger said at the pre trip orientation. 
Having a Sat phone on a trip in addition, would be really awesome, as both devices have advantages and disadvantages to them.


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## dsrtrat (May 29, 2011)

I personally don't have an Inreach but as I recall from our experience NPS dispatch cannot read your text directly. I didn't handle communications during our incident as I was providing patient care.

If you use the SOS feature it is relayed by a third party. My satellite phone, an Iridium 9575 has this feature as well and it goes through a third party, GEOS in my case. 

Keep in mind that for non critical issues you may be triaged so it is handy to be able to communicate directly.

You are correct that a text requires a shorter satellite contact time and in Grand Canyon you WILL have dropped calls on a satellite phone no matter which brand you are using. I have done direct comparisons in Grand Canyon between Globalstar and Iridium and found no clear difference between the two brands. Globalstar seemed to have a quicker lock on time depending on canyon orientation, Iridium usually took longer to lock on but seemed to have longer time between drops. Both failed to lock on in some places.

I only get the phone out when necessary, as I like to be disconnected when on the river. I have watched device creep take over trips as technology has become available. On some trips people spent more time trying to charge devices than at the cocktail table. In my opinion a real waste of valuable river time.


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## raymo (Aug 10, 2008)

*Airborne Wireless Network?*

If this new technology get off the ground, commercial aircraft would be used as a substitute for ground base antenna's, for cellphone use where ground base repeaters are not available.very cool I think. The quicker you get your cordinate's to the aircraft and they enter it into their FMC and let it do its PFM to make the dot on their screen the quicker they can reach you.


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## johnryan (Feb 6, 2013)

I remember about seven years ago maybe sitting at Badger camp while a guy was on his phone posting pictures onto Facebook of our first day. I let him get away with it because of how excited he was to share being on his first Grand Canyon trip.

I'm glad he didn't get service anywhere after that!


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## Electric-Mayhem (Jan 19, 2004)

dsrtrat said:


> I personally don't have an Inreach but as I recall from our experience NPS dispatch cannot read your text directly. I didn't handle communications during our incident as I was providing patient care.
> 
> If you use the SOS feature it is relayed by a third party. My satellite phone, an Iridium 9575 has this feature as well and it goes through a third party, GEOS in my case.
> 
> ...


The Inreach devices use the Iridium network and GEOS as well. Seems like GEOS could act as intermediary between you and NPS. I'll admit it would be VERY nice if the NPS dispatch could use text based stuff directly. I'll have to look into it.

I'll admit I like my "devices" but I try to be subtle about it. I use my phone as a camera and for listening to music. I have an app that allows me to use it for GPS too and I download satellite imagery for the area too. I also bring a tablet that I mostly use for books and such, though I usually toss a few movies on it too. I mostly use that right before I go to sleep...so its not really around the campfire or camp. If people are wanting a more "frontier" minded trip I don't mind toning most of my device use back though.


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## SherpaDave (Dec 28, 2017)

sarahkonamojo said:


> Call me curmudgeon, but please no cell service in the Grand. Please let there be somewhere that social media, NSA, and the tech giants aren't following you. Next thing you know amazon prime drones flying into phantom to deliver party favors.
> Sat service is enough. Useful, but expensive enough not to use after every drop.
> The end of days.


I am looking forward to Amazon Priming my ice refill.


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## trevko (Jul 7, 2008)

As many others have said - satellite phones are probably best and can be rented for the trip. There used to be a few places that were dead spots but they were fairly small. There is no way you could cover the entire Canyon with cell coverage. The NPS doesn't have complete coverage with their radio system and repeaters. 


I remember (back in the day) when you had to have ground to air radios on trips. If something happened you would attempt to contact a flight tour or high flier on the emergency frequency. If it was a high flier the pilot would contact a air traffic control (usually in LA) who then called the park 911. Talk about the phone game....


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## dsrtrat (May 29, 2011)

(Quote) I'll admit it would be VERY nice if the NPS dispatch could use text based stuff directly. I'll have to look into it.

I would call the river office and ask. The ranger at check out indicted it was something planned to be added in the future. The NPS like all agencies has to manage their budgets and I doubt this is one of the priorities. There are over 11 billion dollars of backlogged projects in the parks at this point. 

Salt Lake city just got text to 911 this month so I expect it will be awhile until you see it in Grand Canyon.


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