# Good Ol Fashion Shit Talking



## Steve Kahn (Apr 17, 2004)

*regional styles*

Nice - 

as someone who hasn't got out of our area much at all, i'm way into checking out these regional differences and will keep my eye out for the states series. 

this reminds me of a book i've read for climbers, called "American Rock" - an awsome read, if you've traveled much. basically, it detailed each climbing hub, and the history/type of climbing in each area. the premise of the book (as i saw it) was that the regional type of rock had a fundamental influence into the local style/ethics that developed in each area. i wonder if any kind of book exists for kayaking, or even if the question is relavant for kayaking?

have different regions brought about different styles? ethics? maybe the first question is "are there different styles/ethics" then, if the answear is yes, you could ask if they are regional differences. 

are there more ways to climb a rock than descend a river?


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## gh (Oct 13, 2003)

great porn to go with my morning java and dam funny. paddling with rich grommits with cameras on their heads, man thats funny. thanks


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## boof512 (Oct 26, 2003)

*Poop talkin*

There is no need for any shit talkin. All you have to do is look at the state that produced the best guide book (out of any guide book ever made on any subject) and you will learn the state with the most goods. I just wish LVM would have shown some Colorado love and found a better looking guy to interview. I mean come on he looks like the offspring frpom LOTSA and lifes mom...
Patrick


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## Pizzle (Jun 26, 2007)

Yah, the Cali guide is definitely the best. Much props to Holbeck and Stanley


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## gh (Oct 13, 2003)

lol, nice try


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## COUNT (Jul 5, 2005)

Everyone knows the Cali guide is worthless because there aren't any pictures. Remember, most paddlers don't know how to read (especially those home-schooled southeast inbreds). Them NW prep boys just pay someone to read to them as they sip their double macchiato chai's and the Calibrahs are just too stoned all the time to care. They just look at the pictures and go if it looks fun.

COUNT


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## benpetri (Jul 2, 2004)

Steve Kahn said:


> i'm way into checking out these regional differences


Biggest difference between here any most other regions is other regions have water. I mean it. Water almost year around. We have tons of good shit but it only goes 3 month of the year (on a good year at that). Otherwise, the rest of the time its road trip to poach some goods from those stoners in california. Cali is sick.


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## caspermike (Mar 9, 2007)

*WYO SICK*

wyo is sick because of the amount of unrun whitewater.


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## ToddG (Nov 29, 2003)

whoa, i almost missed this entertaining thread .. been busy _*kayaking*_. 


you guys are hilarious though. 'specially you, pete. wish i had more time to think up snarky shit about how rad my home zone is .. but i gotta get my work done so i can enjoy yet another 3-day weekend of back-to-back waterfalls & splashy Ashlu goodness. you guys wouldn't like it here anyway .. too cold, too rainy, too much vegetation, too much water in the runs, etc. the holes are big here .. not fun. 


BTW, nice "dig me!" fishing portrait in the creeking gallery -- guess that's what it's come to. then again, it IS mid-summer (read: season over) in Colo, after all. now you only have, what, 3 months til the blue ice forms a "run" at keystone & loveland, & then it's -- yaaaay! -- ski season for the next 7 months!

suckers


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## boof512 (Oct 26, 2003)

*hi*

Lets not loose sight that no matter where we live North West, South East, Cali, Co. It could be worse.. It could be Kansas.. Or you could be stuck in BERLIN Germany like I am for the next 10 LONG white waterless months..
Patrick


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## doublet (May 21, 2004)

It could be *WAY* worse. TG just tries to bum us out since he lives in the PNW. Pretty much the PNW has a longer season, and a few places on the east coast have a longer season (but who would wanna live there). That's about it. Even the motherland of CA has a limited season. Sick boating, but the runs happening in April are about 10 hrs away from the runs happening in August. Plus you have to live in CA. Within a 10 hour radius we have boating from April-August too.

One day I'll probably move to PNW, run the shit year-round and in my spare time talk trash about CO. Until then...glad I'm not in Kansas.


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## jmack (Jun 3, 2004)

Alright, I usually stay quiet on these not-planning-to-go-kayaking threads, but its time that someone pointed out that the CO kayaking season IS NOT 3 MONTHS LONG. I paddled until November last year and started again in March. Show of hands- who didn't have fun at Gore last weekend?...

That's what I thought. 

The season here is 8 months if you want it to be and the skiing is pretty kick-ass the rest of the time. I know the PNW kicks ass but the season here is pretty good too if you are willing to make a little effort. Paddling in the snow is actually kinda fun. Quit your bitchin people- the season is not over.


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## theprofessor (Mar 7, 2007)

I live in the PNW but I don't shit talk about the CO boating. There are goods everywhere, I just feel bad for folks that have a higher Drive to Boating ratio. 

The thing I don't get is why the PNW is so much different of a culture than the east coast. Do you have alot of Open Boaters in CO? We have hardly any and I can't remember the last time I saw an open boat on a run in WA. What about wood paddles? No one up here uses em, well maybe like 1 or 2 folks. But from my understanding its the other way around in the east.

So what about in CO, open boats? wood paddles?

Am I missing the true roots of the sport or did they forget to upgrade?


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## the_dude (May 31, 2006)

theprofessor said:


> So what about in CO, open boats? wood paddles?


i'll occasionally see an open boat but not many wood paddles, at least on the runs i do. those that have them are originally from the SE, or at least that's been my experiance. i was told that owning a wooden paddle in the SE is kind of like a rite of passage: when you know how to boat, you get one.


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## tboner (Oct 13, 2003)

the rocks are too sharp for wood paddles in CO... and too sharp for the unskilled.


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## HuckinAZ (Nov 18, 2006)

*depends on what you like*

if you like big slides, waterfalls, mean holes, epic whitewater for days on end coupled with the most amazing scenery of you life, california is the way to go.

if you want to wake up at noon kayak til 9pm and then go out for beers, CO is what's up.

if you want to chase rain for 2 years until you finally get on an epic 1st D, head to AZ

you want consistent gnar with bomber locals head to Udaho

...

as far as shit talking...
-cali doesn't even know what a guide book is, 
-co needs to get more than a 4 drop park and huck, 
-arizona needs to stop bragging about how amazing the water was in the 1970's it's f'ing 2007
-and i've never been to Udaho because everyone runs the same damn thing OVER AND OVER

... 

with that said, kayaking is the shit and i don't care where i am if i'm in my boat above a drop


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## d.e. (Apr 5, 2005)

Ya know,Colorado sucks, especially the southwest corner of the state. The paddling sucks, the mountain biking sucks, the skiing sucks, the fishing sucks,the hunting sucks, the sunrise's sucks, the sunset's sucks, the beer sucks, the 300 days of sunshine a year suck. The mountains really suck. Everything about Colorado sucks. For those so inclined, keep on dissing and hating and leave us to our poor pitiful delusional (delusional about how good we think we have it) life.

Suckers
P.S. Yes, this is sarcasm. Peace.


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## ToddG (Nov 29, 2003)

d.e. said:


> Ya know,Colorado sucks, especially the southwest corner of the state. The paddling sucks, the mountain biking sucks, the skiing sucks, the fishing sucks,the hunting sucks, the sunrise's sucks, the sunset's sucks, the beer sucks, the 300 days of sunshine a year suck. The mountains really suck. Everything about Colorado sucks. For those so inclined, keep on dissing and hating and leave us to our poor pitiful delusional (delusional about how good we think we have it) life.
> 
> Suckers
> P.S. Yes, this is sarcasm. Peace.



nice DE .. i can't figure out why anyone's trying to be serious or logical or reasonable or PC on a thread entitled "*good ol fashion shit talking*" which was started by the jedi knight of shit talking to draw attention to Grace's incessant shit talking & to stir up even more shit talking about other regions ... hmmm. 


having said that, there is a serious, logical & reasonable explanation why there are a bunch of kids from california, the east coast & the rockies camped out alongside the ashlu road for the past month. here, lemme just help you do the math real quick:


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## rmpeddie (Apr 8, 2007)

ToddG said:


> having said that, there is a serious, logical & reasonable explanation why there are a bunch of kids from california, the east coast & the rockies camped out alongside the ashlu road for the past month. here, lemme just help you do the math real quick:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Kato (Oct 13, 2003)

i hate you todd. why did you have to start posting pictures? dick.


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## heliodorus04 (May 31, 2005)

COUNT said:


> Everyone knows the Cali guide is worthless because there aren't any pictures. Remember, most paddlers don't know how to read (especially those home-schooled southeast inbreds). Them NW prep boys just pay someone to read to them as they sip their double macchiato chai's and the Calibrahs are just too stoned all the time to care. They just look at the pictures and go if it looks fun.
> 
> COUNT


So is what you're saying, Count, that while I learned to boat in Colorado, and I mainly boat in Colorado, I'm really a California boater?
Shoe fits. Guess I better wear it. Plus I'm a native to there anyway.


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## jeffy (Sep 17, 2004)

jmack said:


> Alright, I usually stay quiet on these not-planning-to-go-kayaking threads, but its time that someone pointed out that the CO kayaking season IS NOT 3 MONTHS LONG. I paddled until November last year and started again in March. Show of hands- who didn't have fun at Gore last weekend?...
> 
> That's what I thought.
> 
> The season here is 8 months if you want it to be and the skiing is pretty kick-ass the rest of the time. I know the PNW kicks ass but the season here is pretty good too if you are willing to make a little effort. Paddling in the snow is actually kinda fun. Quit your bitchin people- the season is not over.


 Hell yes.


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## HuckinAZ (Nov 18, 2006)

*OK I was just trying to be nice before but...*

Colorado: CO guys are calling the range life lazy? EH? Isn't Evan S part of that crew? Where is Evan located (I got the impression it was CO). I can't remember the last time I did a run in CO where we put on before noon. CO boaters are the laziest boaters I've seen hands down.

California: OMG SCOTT STOP TALKING! How many people know what SL looks like? HOW MANY PEOPLE KNOW WHAT HE SOUNDS LIKE? WTF? - "Does he still kayak?" No, he's gone from narrating his kayaking to narrating shit talking on LVM. 

(Anyone seen Aerated? What do you remember? Massive slide... why? NO TALKING! JUST KAYAKING)

North Carolina: North Carolina has AWESOME women, sweet runs, but their downfall: LVM. LVM sucks, didn't you see the stickers? 

Arizona is the shit! Meet an Arizona paddler when they just learn to roll and when you see them a year later they're paddling class V. We love kayaking and we'll travel far and wide to feed our passion. Plus our short season produces some of the best kayaking through granite and wilderness ever.


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## benpetri (Jul 2, 2004)

Colorado is mostly a bunch of lazy ass fair weather boaters who bitch about the water temperature when its under 60 degrees and claim its downright crazy to paddle in a May rainstorm with the water rising. Thats one of the reasons they can't get their asses on the river before noon because they have to wait for it to warm up, the dew to dry off of their gear and day's peak flow to start ebbing before they can manage a run of the numbers. The reason for this is because most of the Colorado river rat crowd is transplanted from lame states like the East, Midwest, Texas or that Southern Cali pit of hell LA, instead of Colorado natives like myself. You can tell a native because he'll be boating Clear Creek in a snowstorm with a shorty top on and sweating cause its so damn hot:twisted: . I don't think many of these transplants could hack it in the PNW. I don't think the temp out there ever gets above 45. The only ones worse than Colorado boaters for fair-weather lameness are Southeast paddlers. Any less than 80 degrees and they bust out their drysuits. 

Colorado fair-weather paddler's only redemption is at least when they finally do make it on the river, no one else is as good at tearing up wood infested low volume sharp rocky super mank. In the PNW, any run with less than, well like 2000 cfs, and they just don't mess with it.


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## caspermike (Mar 9, 2007)

learning to roll and running class 5 a year later? what's this bullshit spewing from your mouth, you can have your bath tubs and foamies to yourself, wyoming gots the goods so good they are actually to good for tao himself!


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## HuckinAZ (Nov 18, 2006)

*what's a foamie?*

i don't think there is a single arizona paddler who even know's how to make a foamie, and most wouldn't even know what they were if not for Adidas videos.


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## COLDFEAR (Apr 20, 2004)

*Wyoming!*










Wyoming First D's.........


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## HuckinAZ (Nov 18, 2006)

*FIRST D!*

Arizona FIRST D! oh wait i forgot the 'S' "1st D's" as in plural, more than one


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## rmpeddie (Apr 8, 2007)

caspermike said:


> wyoming gots the goods so good they are actually to good for tao himself!


That's right ya'll WY gots the goods. Stay off my wave Tao!


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## deepsouthpaddler (Apr 14, 2004)

Well everyone knows that kayaking in the states blows anyway... Trying to argue about which state is better is like trying to figure out if you like your left nut kicked better than your right nut. With that said, each state / region sucks in its own special way.

Colorado
Colorado's season is shorter than your average summit county gaper's johnson. The blast rock is so sharp that you'll probably break a creek boat every week for the couple of weeks that shit is actually running. Then you'll break a creek boat every week for a couple more weeks trying to run rediculously low shit, cuz nothings running. You will have to amputate your fingers from frostbite unless you wear pogies up to your elbow. One of the best runs in the state (big south) is fricking gated up for over half the nano-second long season too. To top it off, the traffic is so bad in denver, that most metro denver boaters miss the runoff entirely, because they are stuck in traffic on I-70. Thats why clear creek is so popular, not because its good, but because you can abandon your vehicle on I-70 and boat back to denver and hope the traffic is less next season. 

Arizona
Now arizona does have the grand, aka the big ditch, but you'll have to wait 435 years to get a permit. Your only other option is to kiss some old bearded rafters ass for a month straight while you clean his shitter, cook dinner and listen to him bitch about kayakers not carrying their load. Other than that, its takes a 100 yr rainstorm on top of above average snowpack, a powerball ticket, and psychic to actually get the creeks to run and be there at the right hour. Most hardy AZ creekers will camp at their favorite creek all year looking at the water every day to see if it will run. They are usually rewarded with an epic run about every decade. 

California
Sure there is great kayaking somewhere out there, but you need to hijack a gas truck to keep enough fuel around to even think about getting the shuttle done with a car. When you do finally get to the put in you have to hike half way to neveda to even get to the run. You will probably find the level too high, at which point, you either run it anyway and end up hiking out of some heinous gorge, or you hike back to the car. Kayaking is california is actually hiking with a boat, there is not much water involved. The hot shots run the shit with helicopters and sherpas imported from everest and then take a picture with their boat on their head looking like they are hiking very hard to try to fool people into believing that they actually hiked all that way with their boat.

Southeast
You are just as likely to find some hick's shotgun in your face as you are to find cold takeout beers in the southeast. Thats if you make it to the takeout (aka the get out) without getting sodomized by the inbred grandson of the dude that gave burt reynolds and company some hillbilly man love. While it is true that they run the green 4369 times a year and look pretty bad ass, they can't actually run anything hard if they don't have the lines memorized down to every last paddle stroke, so they just go back to the green again. When they have a drought (often) their only hope is to go get run over by a raft on the ocoee. Their idea of a first descent is to get Gomer to hose down a large slab of rock and slide down it. They they kind of get gripped, cuz its more water then they have seen and its too pushy. When they make their pilgrimage to colorado for the two weeks that colorado runs, they need to wear depends diapers because everythings huge and they can't find the eddys. The do get some good water when a hurricane comes, but the entire gulf coast has to get destroyed for them to get some decent water.

Wyoming
Well there are more antelope in wyoming than kayak runs, and counting antelope along I-80 is more fun than being a kayaker in wyoming. Sure they have a few nice runs. You have to hike all the way up to the camp where the bear will eat one of your crew to get to the put in. Wyoming boys know this so they always bring some sucker from colorado with them, put some bacon on his tent, and sacrifice him to get the goods. Thats why you actually never hear anything about wyoming, because no one lives to tell about it. Rumor is that there is a class V ditch that runs when a farmer irrigates his field. Beta is to boof all the barbed wire, run 50 miles of flatwater and then swim out of the huge class V. Get your vehicle shot at by cowboys who have been out there since their grandpappy's pappy was rustlin cattle back in the good ole days when a mans word could be taken to the bank, at which point he would promply rob said bank.

Utah
The skiing is great, but thats where to good stuff ends. The colorado does run through utah, but your kayak will melt at the put in, so most trips end there. If you do manage to ice down your boat at the put in to prevent melting you can look forward to weeks and weeks of flatwater. No one has ever actually seen a whitewater rapid in utah. Westwater doesn't count, thats acutally colorado. 

Pac NW
There is water and gradient up there, as the 3 kayakers who boat there will tell you, but you need to bust out your artic drysuit to have any hope of making a run without getting hypothermia. One of the main paddle accessories out there is prozac, because you won't want to go kayaking because you are so depressed because you never see the sun. Once you are fully medicated and you have all your artic gear, the season usually goes like this... 1) take prozac, 2) get soaking wet at the put in, 3) boat a pool up to a huge drop, 4) run a monster drop, 5) get a monster injury, 6) go to the doc, up the prozac and look forward to next season. You can post a pic of that one huge waterfall you ran on mountainbuzz and tease all those fricking blast mank suckers in colorado (who will be jealous). The best thing you can say about the pac NW is that its closer to canada where there is actually good boating.

Texas
Why anyone would claim to kayak in texas is beyond me. They put up some videos of them running a culvert while houston is drowning and they call it the best season in decades. Move somewhere that has water or pull out your six shooter and put one between your eyes. If you do move anywhere, you will be ridiculed incessantly, at which point you will move back to texas. Drop the kayak and focus on the things texas is good at, breeding presidents that ruin the country.

Mid west
Some delusional farm boy thinks he kayaks in kansas. That's all that keeps him from going insane while working on the farm. Every once in a while the entire mid west floods and you can boof off of houses in swollen rivers, but then you have to go all the way down to louisiana to get your house back.

Louisiana
Absolutely the worst state in the country to kayak and the worst place on earth to boat. Sure the biggest river in the coutry is there (mississippi, which is the indian word for "the kayaking blows here"), but the gradient is measured in millimeters per light year and the katrina recovery moves faster than any water in the state. The closest whitewater is 4 hours to a class I- riffle in mississippi. You get fired up to drive 10 hours to tennessee to get run over rafts on the ocoee a couple times a year. They you go home and drink yourself into a stupor while looking at your kakay wishing you could boat. The only time louisiana ever sees any whitewater is when a hurricane comes and the levees break. Your boat will get looted before you can run the 100 ft long gnar though, and then your city is ruined. Of course I know all this too well, as thats where I learned to boat. The best use for a kayak in lousiana is to fill it up with alcohol, hang it up and do monster shots out of the drain plug hole. 

Northeast
The best thing about the northeast is the freakshow you will encounter while boating there. Meet some guy at the put in and marvel at his gear... he has a paddle made out of sanded down 2X4, a hybrid birch bark dugout, fiberglass, squirt model he made 150 years ago. You won't be able to communicate on the river because he uses the indian names for river terms, but he will tell you cool stories of how he taught nealy to boat. You will need to take his straight to the old folks home after your run. 

Well thats about it. Its fairly obvious that the entire country blows. Time for me to go order 14 creekboats for next season in colorado, and thats just the boats I budget to break on bear creek for the couple weeks it runs.


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## deepsouthpaddler (Apr 14, 2004)

double post. even the fricking internet boating forums suck and don't work worth a shit


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## BastrdSonOfElvis (Mar 24, 2005)

Awesome.


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## craporadon (Feb 27, 2006)

Cold Fear's picture of a wyoming first d shows everything that is wrong with paddling in the rockies in 2007. If a first d like that gets you fired up then your in the right place in the rockies. 150 cfs, junky rock with bushes, yeah. Here is a quick video of what cali first d's are like in 2007. There's still gems to be found there and they're found like this every year. http://www.caliproduct.com/calisite.webpage/videos/movie2.mov


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## codyhoward (Feb 26, 2007)

oh man...
i'm just sitting hear crackin up and shakin my head. This is great.....I'm boofing free and clear of this one!!!! 

-Just adding in a little props to LVM for the new concept. I think that will be an awesome new view on some of America's new paddling destinations! Really looking forward to that one!!

Cody


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## caspermike (Mar 9, 2007)

i dont need to say anymore, we have so many first decents that no one wants to give them up to arizona ditch rats. way bigger verts than that lil 50cfs drop in your pic. and our creeking season starts in april and i think bluegrass could still be running

to deepthroater
Wyoming has more antelope than people in the state retard, and we aren't the only state we just didn't kill them off like colorado! you live in denver what the hell do you know about good runs? we have to hike because we aren't corporate america building roads and houses were ever the fuck we please. and the real men dont camp we sleep standing! and that class 5 ditch you are taking about has more perfect 15' boofs in it than all the front rangers in denver, which is also only 15 minutes from casper! 
and the amount of unrun water outnumbers the runs that are actually worth going to in colo!


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