# Ultimate Cataraft Grand Frame??



## rsmiller (Jun 28, 2004)

Looking to modify my 16' Cat Grand Canyon Frame..... Its a big frame - 72"W x 120"L and has been modified some.

I am looking for ideas on how to haul rocket boxes. Current solution is a dropbag with a table over the top. However i'd like to add rocket boxes in the rowing compartment. Thoughts on how to secure?

Any photos of well thought out frames are really appreciated!

I like this raft setup as I rowed one of these last March... Any thoughts on bays versus no bays?


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## Avatard (Apr 29, 2011)

If you have nrs you can run two spreader bars about 15" apart and strap from the handles around the spreader bars back to the handles. An additional strap around the can will let you tension the first strap tight enough the shouldnt move. If you go this route then grind off any sharp edges on the cans. You probably want to put a solid floor as the space between the bars could pose an entrapment hazard

My plan is to to make custom webbing and run my 5gal military plastic jerry cans in the space there against the tubes. Much gentler on my body if i get thrashed around in my rower cage.


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## Gumbydamnit (Apr 2, 2008)

Jan at stitches N stuff can make you some custom drop bags that you could put some rocket boxes in. I had her make me one to haul my groover and it works great.


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## mrkyak (Jul 11, 2005)

I'm working on my 18' aire cat frame. Same size as you mentioned. Now that the river sauna is done, I got some ideas for the frame. One goal is to provide a passenger area up front with provisions for Keeping them dry as possible for our December grand trip. Maybe also have an alternative seat behind the oarsman, we'll see. I'll keep you posted.


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## Avatard (Apr 29, 2011)

mrkyak said:


> I'm working on my 18' aire cat frame. Same size as you mentioned. Now that the river sauna is done, I got some ideas for the frame. One goal is to provide a passenger area up front with provisions for Keeping them dry as possible for our December grand trip. Maybe also have an alternative seat behind the oarsman, we'll see. I'll keep you posted.


How many passengers are you taking? Sounds kind of ambitious as passengers eat up a lot of space and weight on the boat. Is this an 18' lion? 27.5" tubes?


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## mrkyak (Jul 11, 2005)

Aire leopard 26.5" tubes. One passenger on board. Ever heard of mounting two above frame flip seats and having two sets of oars? Sure some coordination would be needed but on the flat water and minor rapids of the grand the "passenger" would be able to oar a little and stay warm. On major rapids only one set of oars would be used. Kinda like a Viking cataraft. Where can I get one of those helmets with the horns sticking out. 
The passenger really only needs leg room if he's in a flip seat. Gear under his seat would be there anyways.
For front row seating I'd prefer him to be lower, ie sitting at frame height, that way he'd be easier to protect from splashing. I can see fabricating an enclosure in which his legs and feet were in which was water tight, sort of like a "side car" (self bailing) on a motorcycle but placed front row and center in the cat. A collapsible "wind shield" (fabric or aluminum) would be used for light to medium waves. 
The most frequent comment I've gotten about winter gandtrips is that it's really cold for the passenger. I'm trying to do what I can to keep him warmer and happier. We'll both be in goretex dry suits.
A Viking style cataraft.........am I a geniuses or what?


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## Avatard (Apr 29, 2011)

Makes sense you need four oars anyhow may as well move the towers and do two sets. Face each other and you get the advantage of opposing muscle groups and you can converse. Also rotate the boat 180 and work the othe muscles.

A true viking ship would have a min of four rowers, eight oars.

A drysuit on the passenger and they are not gonna be warm enough? I would have guessed water temps 45 and air temps close to 50? And fleece inside the suit?


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

How about some vinyl rain pants over the passenger's legs? Stop evaporative cooling off the Goretex. It wouldn't be able to breathe, but I'm guessing sweat won't be a huge issue.

x2 on what Avatard said about fleece inside the suit?!


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## Avatard (Apr 29, 2011)

MT4Runner said:


> How about some vinyl rain pants over the passenger's legs? Stop evaporative cooling off the Goretex. It wouldn't be able to breathe, but I'm guessing sweat won't be a huge issue.
> 
> x2 on what Avatard said about fleece inside the suit?!


Wear fleece inside the suit. I thought everyone did that?


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

:lol:

50ºF is a tough temp. Just a bit too cool for polypro and a bit too warm for fleece. Maybe 2 layers of polypro--one lightweight, one heavyweight, or lightweight polypro + very thin fleece?

I like just polypro under my drysuit in the high 50's-low 60's; 30's-40's are solid fleece temps, depending on exertion/expected immersion.

....and a neoprene beanie or hood under the passenger's helmet will also help regulate temps.


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## boatingbuss (May 22, 2008)

Jason at Wet Dreams River Supply can build anything you want and you could pick it up before your trip. His store is downtown here in Flagstaff. I had him build both of my drop bags for my hatches. I needed shallower bags, because they were for an ocelot. He does work for all the river companies in town who all use 20 mils for day boxes and groovers. Just call him and he'll tell you exactly what you need.
Drop Bags, Wet Dreams River Supply


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## rsmiller (Jun 28, 2004)

So any thoughts on using lids on the bays like in the above photo?


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## Avatard (Apr 29, 2011)

I'd avoid rocket boxes at all cost. They weigh a ton. I'm thinking the lid advantage is you can lay or stand across the platform and it keeps the contents from falling out


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## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

Avatard said:


> I'd avoid rocket boxes at all cost. They weigh a ton. I'm thinking the lid advantage is you can lay or stand across the platform and it keeps the contents from falling out


Agree, 15. Lbs apiece!


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## Avatard (Apr 29, 2011)

Thats for the smaller boxes. 20mm cans (50 use eco safe sized) are about half the weight of a drybox.


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## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

I'm pretty sure that's what i weighed, but mu memory could be faulty as it's been a long time since i put one on my boat. Other people's boats, now that's different!


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## rsmiller (Jun 28, 2004)

So here is my plan for the rig... Frame is 120x72

*Front 2 Bays* - no floor, only drop bags with lids like the Ceiba rig above. For carrying fruit veggies, propane, rocket boxes etc. Can put paco over lids for passangers or sleeping. Table can also go over lids during the day.

*Rowers Bay* - Set up like the photo below. Only Diamond plate in rowers bay. Room for rocket boxes or dry box on each side.

*Rear 2 Bays* - Mesh SNS floor with a cross bar at the top of frame. Can be used for dry bags or dry box suspended off frame using the cross bar.


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## Pro Leisure (Sep 19, 2011)

rsmiller said:


> So here is my plan for the rig... Frame is 120x72
> 
> *Front 2 Bays* - no floor, only drop bags with lids like the Ceiba rig above. For carrying fruit veggies, propane, rocket boxes etc. Can put paco over lids for passangers or sleeping. Table can also go over lids during the day.
> 
> ...


Where does the cooler go?


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## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

Don't expect a table to sleep on. They're used in the kitchen and it's just extra work rigging if you put in on at night and then have to rig things under it in the am.


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## rsmiller (Jun 28, 2004)

Planning to have lids like the Ceiba rig in the first post. I'll sleep on the lids. The table will just be rigged over one of the lids.

As for the cooler... it can go in one of the front bays or one of the rear bays. I'd prefer to use it as a seat.

Any thoughts on altenatives to steel or alum lids? How many run lids on their bays with drop bags? 

I really liked this set up last march. Any cons to this?


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## sledhooligan (Mar 12, 2009)

I run a 5 bay frame on my 16 NRS kodiak its alittle under 120. Bays are front to back= dry box-rowing bay-cooler with flip seat bracket-dry box-drop bag w/table over it. My father runs a very similar setup with a 6 bay setup that is right at 120. front to back=dry box-rowing bay-cooler w/flip seat-dry box-drop bag-drop bag w/table. When he has a passenger he leaves the first drop bag empty so they sit on his table and put there feet in the empty bay. You could even set the back dry box back another bay and let the passenger sit on it. And for an 18 footer running a 7 bay 140inch may be an option. The picture shows my fathers boat with the a 5 bay so just imagine another 16inch inbetween his rear dry box and table.


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## Avatard (Apr 29, 2011)

Obese tubes


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## boatingbuss (May 22, 2008)

Yampa?


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## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

The con is simply excessive weight. I enjoyed the rigging of a rented 18' pig on my fist grand trip too. Then i realized how much less work it is to row a lighter boat. Rockets sure rig easy though, but don't forget buckets and vittle vaults.


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## bobkeating8585 (10 mo ago)

mrkyak said:


> Aire leopard 26.5" tubes. One passenger on board. Ever heard of mounting two above frame flip seats and having two sets of oars? Sure some coordination would be needed but on the flat water and minor rapids of the grand the "passenger" would be able to oar a little and stay warm. On major rapids only one set of oars would be used. Kinda like a Viking cataraft. Where can I get one of those helmets with the horns sticking out.
> The passenger really only needs leg room if he's in a flip seat. Gear under his seat would be there anyways.
> For front row seating I'd prefer him to be lower, ie sitting at frame height, that way he'd be easier to protect from splashing. I can see fabricating an enclosure in which his legs and feet were in which was water tight, sort of like a "side car" (self bailing) on a motorcycle but placed front row and center in the cat. A collapsible "wind shield" (fabric or aluminum) would be used for light to medium waves.
> The most frequent comment I've gotten about winter gandtrips is that it's really cold for the passenger. I'm trying to do what I can to keep him warmer and happier. We'll both be in goretex dry suits.
> A Viking style cataraft.........am I a geniuses or what?


yes!


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