# Main Salmon Questions



## isever (Apr 29, 2012)

First time on the Main, ran low water Middle Fork 2x. Any advice will be appreciated. Put in on the 19th, day before quotas. Is that a crowded event?
How will the flow be by then, easy to find camps? Have a healthy crew but a little weak on raft experience. Two 16 footers myself and other boatman have two Grand Canyons trips under our belts, passengers should be good assist if needed. Hoping for a "recommended" flow by then. Any tips for running rapids?Thanks "I"


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## cataraftgirl (Jun 5, 2009)

Too much info to impart in the thread. I'll send you a PM.
KJ


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## isever (Apr 29, 2012)

*Main Salmon*

Thanks for all the input and enthusiasm. Will look at that book too. What is the jet boat impact on running a rapid? I understand they have right of way, could get interesting on a big rapid.
We just lost on of our gals on the trip, want to run it big? Also how is the river at the end of the season, late Sept.? Would love to do a floater in my mini me. Have a great season. "I"


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## cataraftgirl (Jun 5, 2009)

Thanks for the invite, but early July will be my first trip this year. I'm rehabbing after knee surgery. Floaters have the right of way in rapids and the jet boats are very good at waiting above or below rapids to let your group run. Try to keep your group together so that you get through the rapid as quickly as possible so the jet boat can proceed. It's helpful if your lead boat lets the jet boat driver know how many boats you have so they know when the way is clear. The one thing your never want to do is enter a rapid if the jet boat is already committed to running the rapid. All their steering and maneuverability comes from the forward momentum of their jets. If they stall out or have to stop in the middle of a rapid they can be in serious trouble. They are pretty cool to watch going upriver through a rapid, so be patient and watch. If you hear or see a jet boat coming, yell "Jet Boat" and pass the message to the rest of your crew. You should all pull towards one side of the river (but stay in the current) to let them pass. You will probably see around 4-5 jet boats a day. Remember that in an emergency they can really be helpful. Be courteous to them and they will return the favor. Have a great trip.
KJ


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## Monto (May 15, 2012)

Cataraft girl, 
Any chance you could forward me that PM? I have a main trip in a few weeks and im curious about all the good advice i'm sure is in there!
Aaron


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## brandob9 (Jun 13, 2010)

I second the motion to post the PM. I have a trip coming in late August and would love any info you can offer.


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## swiftwater15 (Feb 23, 2009)

*Main Salmon*

Hey Brandob:

I'll send you a PM. Pretty sure its my trip you are coming on.


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## cataraftgirl (Jun 5, 2009)

I'll post my PM info tonight. Just basic stuff, but nice info to know if you haven't done the Main Salmon before.


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## idahofloater (Feb 23, 2011)

Ya, i think it will be a bit crazier that previous years. The flow will be right. And there is a TON of out-a-state boaters over here right now. Your experience is not an issue to me. With two boats you should be able to easly find a small camp. You will need a plan and a bit of luck to get the nicer camps. But with a small party you should have no isues finding a little something special. Bring shade and sunscreen. Also, I don't know if its just me but I have seen more snakes than usual this year. All drops are stright forward. Ya just line up and maybe pull left or right. Becareful. enjoy.


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## cataraftgirl (Jun 5, 2009)

OK, here are my words of wisdom. The Main Salmon is my favorite multi-day trip (closely followed by the Middle Fork). I have run it at least once a year for the past 10 years.

Guide books - the best one I've found is by Eric Newell, blackcanyonguides.com. Good info, GPS coordinates for camps, good descriptions and drawings of rapids.

Water level - The best way to find out the water level is to call the North Fork Ranger station. There is no gauge reading for Corn Creek on the USGS website. The highest I have run is 2.5 feet, so I have no real "high water" experience. My friends have advised that at high water the hardest thing is keeping your group together, especially if someone swims/flips & catching eddies for camps because of the river speed & smaller eddies. Some rapids wash out at high water, some get much harder. Elkhorn, Whiplash, and Chittam are a few that get nasty at high water. Anything above 4 feet is considered high water, and above 7 feet is considered extreme. There are two new rapids that formed last year.....Alder Creek & Black Creek. Black Creek is a kick in the pants, but it's formation has covered one of my favorite rapids.....Salmon Falls 

Camps - The Main Salmon has lots of great camps. This river is on a partial reservation system. Certain camps can be reserved and the rest are first come first serve. Reserve camps are designated as small group (1-11 peeps) and large group (over 11 peeps). Sometimes if a large camp isn't reserved by a mid-day launch they will let a small group have it. You can't layover at reserved camps. Length of trip is also designated by group size..... 1-10 folks is 8 days/7 nights, 11-20 is 7 days/6 nights, and over 20 is 6 days/5 nights. Since we usually have a small group, we mostly use non-reserve camps and do 1-2 layovers. We are an organized (but not obsessive) group, so we usually are on the river by 9:30 am so that we can get our desired non-reserve camp and avoid the afternoon wind. One word on the non-reserve camps.....they are First Come First Serve. Don't write them down on your desired camp form at the ranger hut and think this means you get them. You only fill out that form for reserved camps. For the past two years we have had groups float up to our camp at 4-5pm and whine because we are already there. If you want to get a desired non-reserve camp, don't hang out in camp until noon. Ok....I'll get off my soapbox now 

Shuttles - I have used River Shuttles out of Salmon for 10 years with no problems. Jet backs are common and can be fun if they work for you based on number in your group and your budget. Jet backs don't often run in late season at lower water levels.

Jet Boats - You will see them every day. If you treat them with respect they will do the same. If they see your group preparing to run a rapid, they will wait for you to finish. Be courteous and keep your group together and get through the rapid as quickly as you can so that they can go. It helps if your lead boat lets them know how many boats are in your group so they know when you are done running the rapid. If you are eddied out to scout, wave them on through. It's cool to watch them run the rapids. If you encounter a jet boat on the river (not in a rapid), have everyone pull towards the side of the river to give them room, but you don't have to eddy out. Jet boat folks can be super helpful if you have an injury/emergency on the river. In 10 years I have never had a bad jet boat experience. They are just part of the Main salmon experience.

Most folks run from Corn Creek to either Vinegar Creek or Carey Creek. We always take-out at Carey Creek so that we get to run Vinegar rapid. This year we are floating down to Spring Bar to add an extra day on the river. There is a scat machine at the Chevon station on Riggins.

Must see stops - Legend Creek pictographs, Barth hot springs, Buckskin Bills (ice, water, soda pop, beer, ice cream, t-shirts, and a cool place to see), Mackay Bar (more ice cream, drinks, t-shirts, flush toilet), Jim Moore, Campbell Ferry, Reho Wolfe, Polly Bemis, and Shepp Ranch homesteads.

Dogs are allowed on the Main Salmon. You will see a fair number of them and my personal dog experiences have always been good. We bring ours and she loves it. Clean up after them. Don't let them be annoying at the put-in & take-out. Don't let them chase wildlife. Be a responsible owner and they will have continued fun on the river.

Weather - It can be hotter than hell from July to September. But I have had cool wet trips in August. Be prepared. Bring shade tarps & lots of sunscreen. The water is awesome for swimming at camp.

Have a great trip and be safe


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## MountainMedic (Apr 24, 2010)

Whiplash @ 8+ is the single hardest hit i have ever taken in a loaded gear boat! T up & push for all you have, keep er straight!


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## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

Dogs on the main. Be prepared for tons of poison ivy. It is he primary reason we're not rushing back. We didn't pick any up from them, lots of baby wipe rub downs and river bahs (friction, no soap) did the trick. However i got really tired of it.


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## cataraftgirl (Jun 5, 2009)

lhowemt said:


> Dogs on the main. Be prepared for tons of poison ivy. It is he primary reason we're not rushing back. We didn't pick any up from them, lots of baby wipe rub downs and river bahs (friction, no soap) did the trick. However i got really tired of it.


Maybe we've just been lucky but we've never picked up PI from our dog. We don't do anything special with her except take her swimming. No wipes down or special precautions.
Me on the other hand.....I pretty much try not to touch any green plant for the week on the MS :smile:


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## Monto (May 15, 2012)

Cataraftgirl, thanks for taking the time to post all that detailed info. 12 more days!


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## cataraftgirl (Jun 5, 2009)

Monto said:


> Cataraftgirl, thanks for taking the time to post all that detailed info. 12 more days!


You are very welcome. 19 days & counting for me. Have a great trip.


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## jrstrauss (Jun 13, 2008)

*camps*



cataraftgirl said:


> OK, here are my words of wisdom. The Main Salmon is my favorite multi-day trip (closely followed by the Middle Fork). I have run it at least once a year for the past 10 years.
> 
> Guide books - the best one I've found is by Eric Newell, blackcanyonguides.com. Good info, GPS coordinates for camps, good descriptions and drawings of rapids.
> 
> ...


Cat, We have a Main 7 day trip, small group. What camps, non reserved, do you like and where do you like to layover? Floating down to Spring Bar sounds good although my river guides do not go that far. We have lot's of river experience, first trip on the Snake in 1966, but only once down the Main. Thanks, Jerry, Golden, Colo.


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## cataraftgirl (Jun 5, 2009)

jrstrauss said:


> Cat, We have a Main 7 day trip, small group. What camps, non reserved, do you like and where do you like to layover? Floating down to Spring Bar sounds good although my river guides do not go that far. We have lot's of river experience, first trip on the Snake in 1966, but only once down the Main. Thanks, Jerry, Golden, Colo.


Sending you a PM. Don't want to give away too many of my secrets.


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## jrstrauss (Jun 13, 2008)

*Thanks*

KJ, What a great reply! Your info is just what we needed. Our launch is 7/9, small group (8). You're right about small groups....the only way to fly. Would you take out at Spring Bar considering our 7 day. This group is layed back but we have no problem doing river miles. Jerry


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## cataraftgirl (Jun 5, 2009)

jrstrauss said:


> KJ, What a great reply! Your info is just what we needed. Our launch is 7/9, small group (8). You're right about small groups....the only way to fly. Would you take out at Spring Bar considering our 7 day. This group is layed back but we have no problem doing river miles. Jerry


This will be the first year that we are taking out at Spring Bar instead of our usual Carey Creek take-out. It adds 12 extra miles, with no real rapids. There are awesome sand beaches in this stretch, but most are on river left with access from the road, so often inhabited by locals. We wanted to add an extra day to our trip, so we are going to see how it works going to Spring Bar. We're hoping the Spring Bar take-out isn't as busy as Carey Creek???
We will be on a few days before you. I'm watching the water and silently praying that it goes down more in the next two weeks. 2 feet or less is my preference, but at least below 3 feet would be nice. Yep.....I'm a whimp, but I'm 2 months out from knee surgery so I'd like a more mellow water level.
Have a safe & fun trip.


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## Rich (Sep 14, 2006)

cataraftgirl said:


> This will be the first year that we are taking out at Spring Bar instead of our usual Carey Creek take-out. It adds 12 extra miles, with no real rapids.
> Have a safe & fun trip.


But it does add two great hot springs! 
Go on down to Shorts Bar or Riggins and add two big rapids (Ruby & Lake Creek)!
Plus save money on shuttle, gas and wear & tear. 
And avoid all the road construction.


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## cataraftgirl (Jun 5, 2009)

Rich said:


> But it does add two great hot springs!
> Go on down to Shorts Bar or Riggins and add two big rapids (Ruby & Lake Creek)!
> Plus save money on shuttle, gas and wear & tear.
> And avoid all the road construction.


Hot springs between Carey Creek and Spring Bar.....details please.
I'd love to go on down to Shorts Bar some time (my favorite steelhead fishing spot), but we don't often have time. I have run the stretch from Carey to Shorts once as a day trip, many years ago.....fun stuff.


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## rwhyman (May 23, 2005)

Rich said:


> But it does add two great hot springs!
> Go on down to Shorts Bar or Riggins and add two big rapids (Ruby & Lake Creek)!
> Plus save money on shuttle, gas and wear & tear.
> And avoid all the road construction.


I've heard about a hot springs in that section, but never had any luck finding one, let alone, two. Care to share any details?


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## [email protected] (Jun 1, 2010)

Could someone tell me what the bugs are like on the Main Salmon mid-August? Are they good, bad or really ugly?


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## Avatard (Apr 29, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> Could someone tell me what the bugs are like on the Main Salmon mid-August? Are they good, bad or really ugly?


When are bugs ever good (unless you are a bird or spider)?


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## cataraftgirl (Jun 5, 2009)

Other than annoying yellow jackets, there really aren't any bugs on the Main Salmon. I usually don't bring any bug spray.


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## nottalocal (Apr 15, 2009)

*Main in 3 days!*

Got a small crew (9 people) headed down the Main in 3 days. Running Corn to Carey Creek. I would love it if anyone can PM me their favorite small non-reservable campsites as this is our 1st Main trip. Thanks for all the info!


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## [email protected] (Jun 1, 2010)

cataraftgirl said:


> Other than annoying yellow jackets, there really aren't any bugs on the Main Salmon. I usually don't bring any bug spray.


Thanks for the info.
Its my first time on the salmon, can hardly stand the wait.


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## idahofloater (Feb 23, 2011)

rwhyman said:


> I've heard about a hot springs in that section, but never had any luck finding one, let alone, two. Care to share any details?


There is only one public hot spring below carrey. It is stright across the river from french creek. Just up stream from french creek where the big salmon road gets back along side the river. Look arcoss the river and you will see the ruins of an old town. There is a trail that goes throught the ruins and starts up the hill in the up stream direction. Continue up this only trail about 1 mile. You will walk right to a cave with 96 degree water and a 100 feet further is the bath house with a caved out log tub. 98 - 100 degrees. Cheers

Riggins hotspring is privite and just below alison creek.


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## scuzball (May 20, 2009)

*What kayak to take on the main salmon*

I'm leaving tomorrow for my first trip on the Main Salmon. I've been going back and forth about which boat to take. I used to be a solid class IV boater, but now I'd say I'm a good class III. Everyone else in my group (mostly stronger paddlers than me) is taking a longer boat-- mostly Dagger RPM's. Since I don't have an old long boat, I bought one at a local boat auction this spring--a Perception Super sport, which is a whopping 9'11" long. After paddling it a couple of times, I decided I wanted something shorter to take down the Salmon. I actually owned a Super Sport 14 years ago, but I'm not used to its length or hull shape now. 

To make a long story short(er), and a long boat short, I'm wondering if my Dagger G-ride 6.2 would be a good choice for the Salmon or if I might wish I had a longer boat. I tried surfing in an RPM (8'11") yesterday, and I could barely figure out how to carve it (even though I owned one of them years ago too!). I know my G-ride and am comfortable in it. I probably wouldn't take it on really challenging water, because it would be a pain to push around. Any thoughts?


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## idahofloater (Feb 23, 2011)

scuzball said:


> I'm leaving tomorrow for my first trip on the Main Salmon. I've been going back and forth about which boat to take. I used to be a solid class IV boater, but now I'd say I'm a good class III. Everyone else in my group (mostly stronger paddlers than me) is taking a longer boat-- mostly Dagger RPM's. Since I don't have an old long boat, I bought one at a local boat auction this spring--a Perception Super sport, which is a whopping 9'11" long. After paddling it a couple of times, I decided I wanted something shorter to take down the Salmon. I actually owned a Super Sport 14 years ago, but I'm not used to its length or hull shape now.
> 
> To make a long story short(er), and a long boat short, I'm wondering if my Dagger G-ride 6.2 would be a good choice for the Salmon or if I might wish I had a longer boat. I tried surfing in an RPM (8'11") yesterday, and I could barely figure out how to carve it (even though I owned one of them years ago too!). I know my G-ride and am comfortable in it. I probably wouldn't take it on really challenging water, because it would be a pain to push around. Any thoughts?


 
G-ride all the way 150%. Not even a second thought! The ww is streight forward. Rapids are not very long. Most are one hit or sneeks for kayaks. Tons of catch on the fly waves that the rpm type boats will hate. Now there is a TON of slow water that the super sport will cruze through better that the G-Ride. Most groups that I encounter on the main are boating play boats. :grin:


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## chile66 (Jul 3, 2012)

*Jetbacks*

Granted you would not be able to use them as late as September.
As someone who has boated the Main over the past 20 years I have witnessed, to my mind, the increasingly frivolous use of jet boats. They were originally grandfathered in to service the inholdings along the river. They have pushed that envelope way beyond anything remotely connected to pure "servicing." Unless you enjoy seeing more and more jetboat traffic, how can you in good conscience use them to avoid the shuttle. If you would prefer not to see more and more use suck it up and do the shuttle.
I might add that with increased use I have noticed less consideration for rafters.


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## scuzball (May 20, 2009)

*What kayak to take on the main salmon*

Thanks Idahofloater! That's really what seems to make the most sense. It helps to know what I'm going to have to deal with. Sounds like my biggest challenge might be keeping up with the long boats on the flat water. I guess that's why we have rafts with us.


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## Ranco (Jun 18, 2010)

chile66 said:


> Granted you would not be able to use them as late as September.
> As someone who has boated the Main over the past 20 years I have witnessed, to my mind, the increasingly frivolous use of jet boats. They were originally grandfathered in to service the inholdings along the river. They have pushed that envelope way beyond anything remotely connected to pure "servicing." Unless you enjoy seeing more and more jetboat traffic, how can you in good conscience use them to avoid the shuttle. If you would prefer not to see more and more use suck it up and do the shuttle.
> I might add that with increased use I have noticed less consideration for rafters.


 We just got off the Main and had no problems with the Jet boats. All were pretty courteous.


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## idahofloater (Feb 23, 2011)

chile66 said:


> Granted you would not be able to use them as late as September.
> As someone who has boated the Main over the past 20 years I have witnessed, to my mind, the increasingly frivolous use of jet boats. They were originally grandfathered in to service the inholdings along the river. They have pushed that envelope way beyond anything remotely connected to pure "servicing." Unless you enjoy seeing more and more jetboat traffic, how can you in good conscience use them to avoid the shuttle. If you would prefer not to see more and more use suck it up and do the shuttle.
> I might add that with increased use I have noticed less consideration for rafters.


 
I have never had any issues with jet boats in the 20 years I have floated the main. 

On a side note; there have been times where jetboats have willfully motored rafters out of the canyon than need medical attention. Is that not a service?? jetboaters have always been a part of the main experience. Let us not pit a us against them thing here. We will need to work together to insure success for both rafters and jetboaters on the river in the future.


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## Tandem (Jul 25, 2011)

Anybody gone all the way from spring bar to hammer creek? We are planning a marathon trip on the salmon - putting in at corn creek and taking out at Hellers bar (20 days total). Plenty of information on the main and the lower but almost nothing on the in-between section. Any info on rapids and/or camps would be greatly appreciated.


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