# Smallest Cataraft for two people



## dirtbagkayaker (Oct 29, 2008)

Most cats that can carry two people are just as wide as your raft and drift deeper in the water than a raft. I would think that 14' x 24" would be good and just about the cut of. 

34" inside the tubes plus 48" for the tubes makes the craft 82" wide. That's almost 7' wide. How wide is your raft? Even a 12.5' legend which could work would be 6.5' wide. 

I thinking puma???


----------



## Jon-O (Sep 17, 2004)

The Aire Wildcat (13') also works well for this purpose. 
Getting ready to sell the tubes. 
Bluefunk PM sent.


----------



## cataraftgirl (Jun 5, 2009)

dirtbagkayaker said:


> Most cats that can carry two people are just as wide as your raft and drift deeper in the water than a raft. I would think that 14' x 24" would be good and just about the cut of.
> 
> 34" inside the tubes plus 48" for the tubes makes the craft 82" wide. That's almost 7' wide. How wide is your raft? Even a 12.5' legend which could work would be 6.5' wide.
> 
> I thinking puma???


I concur. I run a 14X24 cat, and I wouldn't go smaller for two people and overnight gear. Cats tend to lose their speed and maneuverability when overloaded. Maybe a 13 ft. Raft? If you want a playcat, that's cool. Just don't expect it to carry much without some conservative planning.


----------



## Bluefunk (Jul 15, 2011)

Oh forgot to mention that I not planning on trying to fit two people plus gear for overnighters. I just wanted the option of running two people for day trips. If I was going to take two people for a overnighter I would take my other boat.


----------



## Gumbydamnit (Apr 2, 2008)

13 footer can handle 2 people with no gear for sure. Take the girlfriend a few times on some splashy day runs and she'll be wanting her own boat soon enough. Then you can have your "sports car" all to yourself!


----------



## Avatard (Apr 29, 2011)

Bluefunk said:


> Oh forgot to mention that I not planning on trying to fit two people plus gear for overnighters. I just wanted the option of running two people for day trips. If I was going to take two people for a overnighter I would take my other boat.


If you go with the Aire the wildcat is 20" tubes. The ocelot is 22" plus an extra foot of waterline. The extra foot for lady space doesn't hurt either. Hard to find a frame setup that short that will comfortably support two

Maybe you can get a 12 or 13' boat and try and set it up to R2 it (side by side with paddles)


----------



## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

12.5' sotar legend would be great, many people do a passenget. It's comparable to most other 14' cats in load capacity because of blunt tips and bigger tubes. I'd think a more traditional 13', like the wildcat, would be getting a bit small.


----------



## restrac2000 (Mar 6, 2008)

Jon-O said:


> The Aire Wildcat (13') also works well for this purpose.
> Getting ready to sell the tubes.
> Bluefunk PM sent.


My friend has one.....I wouldn't imagine it would perform well with a passenger for class III-IV water for which the thread mentioned. The thing is dynamite with one person but would be awkward with the weight of a passenger, i.e. not broken up and dispersed.

My Aire Ocelot can be a great day tripper with passenger but I would still have to counter balance the passenger weight for it to behave in a way I would consider worthwhile.

Phillip


----------



## Bluefunk (Jul 15, 2011)

Avatard said:


> Hard to find a frame setup that short that will comfortably support two


I've been looking at the DRL River Gypsy frame, you can put a removable passenger seat in the back. Has anybody had any experience with this frame?


----------



## Don (Oct 16, 2003)

*Shredder*

Buy a Shredder from Airtight Inflatables. It's a perfect second boat for small tight creeky runs. It is the race car of rafts and runs lines like a kayak. No other raft performs that same. At your weight or really anyone with gear should buy the Big Rocker version. Peace.


----------



## Avatard (Apr 29, 2011)

Don said:


> Buy a Shredder from Airtight Inflatables. It's a perfect second boat for small tight creeky runs. It is the race car of rafts and runs lines like a kayak. No other raft performs that same. At your weight or really anyone with gear should buy the Big Rocker version. Peace.


No doubt fun but can you put a frame on it for single riders?

Regarding Drl contact Cravin Morehead. He's a big fan I think there might be some man crush going on there


----------



## Avatard (Apr 29, 2011)

Bluefunk said:


> I've been looking at the DRL River Gypsy frame, you can put a removable passenger seat in the back. Has anybody had any experience with this frame?


The problem is usually it gets too hard to get the weight distribution on a small boat because you run out of chafe to slide the frame forward. The optimal spot, IMO, is to put the passenger in the front and have their feet dangle or get some custom footbar that extends forward


----------



## mrett (Feb 17, 2012)

A 13' by 22.5-23" tubes will run two up for day trips quite easily. Sporty up to Class V single up, capable of two up for day trips. DRL/ Dusty has a nice combo frame that works for both applications. Demo'd a set of Wave Destroyer tubes last weekend from DRL. Great to drive before you buy. IMHO .


----------



## oarframe (Jun 25, 2008)

*don't be blue*

Hey blue, what are you thinking of running up here? Carson, Truckee, yuba?
Bout the only thing left this year is the American, which is fine in a 16. My bud runs it in an 18 cat all the time. Of course you could go to the round side and get a small raft for elf trips. pm me if you ever need company, good to know other buzzards on the east side.


----------



## Duce (Sep 5, 2011)

I run a 14ft NRS barge and it handles 2 with full gear no problem. I think a 14 or above will be good to go. Frame selection being the key.


----------



## jnich (Jan 13, 2012)

*I'd go legend.*

I've got a 12'5" legend I ordered stretched to13' to give me room to move the frame forward or back. Back for single day trips or forward for a passenger or gear. I'm running a DRL frame with his passenger seat, I had him do the scout bars full length so I don't have to run a floor with a passenger for day trips.

Pic is my son on the Legend set up for gear, you can still see the passenger seat. River is the John Day with 4/20/13 launch at Clarno.

Jeff


----------



## Rich (Sep 14, 2006)

Avatard said:


> The problem is usually it gets too hard to get the weight distribution on a small boat because you run out of chafe to slide the frame forward. The optimal spot, IMO, is to put the passenger in the front and have their feet dangle or get some custom footbar that extends forward


Passenger or overnight load go behind the rower, not in front, IMHO.
I don't want anything between me and the river. 
I have a 12'-6" cat that is perfect for day trips with two, overnight (5-8 nights) for one, or Class V for one.
A 6' frame on a 12-13' cat has plenty of options for moving to balance load.


----------



## slamkal (Apr 8, 2009)

Rich said:


> Passenger or overnight load go behind the rower, not in front, IMHO.
> I don't want anything between me and the river.
> I have a 12'-6" cat that is perfect for day trips with two, overnight (5-8 nights) for one, or Class V for one.
> A 6' frame on a 12-13' cat has plenty of options for moving to balance load.


A 6' frame is about the min length you can run. That gives about 3' for the rower, 2' for the passenger (feet go below rowers seat bar) and maybe about 16" it so for a drop bag

On a cat that sized, the rower should not sit on a drybox or cooler. It will mess with the geometry too much, and cut into the leg space of the passenger. Pushing the passenger back further extends the frame length and throws the balance aft.

Not too many ways to counterbalance the fact that your CG of rower and passenger is maybe 8" forward of their torso when in the seated position with legs forward. So usually a lot of leg sticking out in front

IMo a way to make this work on most boats is if you have a frame where the rower footbar projects forward of the top rail. The oar towers have to be close to the front of the top rail. Not sure if anyone designs this type of frame


----------



## Pinned (Apr 19, 2012)

I run a 12.5' by 21.5" cat and it does great for two people on day trips. I have a 76" frame, which is about as long as my tubes will take, and I have plenty of space for two. The CG is shifted really far back when I have a passenger so i cheat the frame as far forward as possible. This setup is lots of fun up to class IV stuff with a rider.


----------



## catwoman (Jun 22, 2009)

I used to have a an Aire wildcat - I miss it. You know you can carry two people on a day trip, and you can carry some gear and a person on a longer trip, but performance decreases. It would also be a great boat for her to learn to row. I second the comment about having the rower forward and gear/passenger behind.


----------



## Rich (Sep 14, 2006)

slamkal said:


> A 6' frame is about the min length you can run. That gives about 3' for the rower, 2' for the passenger (feet go below rowers seat bar) and maybe about 16" it so for a drop bag
> 
> On a cat that sized, the rower should not sit on a drybox or cooler. It will mess with the geometry too much, and cut into the leg space of the passenger. Pushing the passenger back further extends the frame length and throws the balance aft.
> 
> ...


My frame is 68" and works well for one passenger. The very front rail of frame is the top bar my foot bar and my seat bar is passengers foot bar. Nobody sits on a cooler or drybox. My frame is a tunnel frame adapter from a DRE frame, but many Idaho frame builders make a similar frame (Madcat, PRE & DRL). Even a NRS frame could be adapted to this format.


----------



## raftus (Jul 20, 2005)

The shredder is a reasonable option - the big rocker especially. It is a 12' cat that only requires a raft style frame (lighter than a cat style frame). I've run mine with a frame and a passenger and it works just fine when I don't want to R2. I also row it solo which I think is easier than R1ing it. As a 12'x21.5" cat it isn't going to carry a ton of gear and the thwarts limit your gear setup options a bit. 

Does anyone know the specs/have photos of the SOTAR paddle cats? I just saw them on their sales hotsheet.


----------



## jpwinc (Sep 19, 2008)

We have a small light weight and narrow cataraft system that we call the cutthroat series. There are a number of frame configurations, but this page tells you what oars you need and what you can do with the frames that are standard. 

http://www.jpwinc.com/pages/cutftc.html

The visual content consists of drawings from solid works design software. If anyone wants the 3d version they should read this, and then contact me for the configurations they are interested in.

http://www.jpwinc.com/pages/solidworkssoftware.html

Because we are in the Southwest, we tend to specialize in low water smaller catarafts. you can give us a call anytime. 1800 742 1904


----------



## cravinmorehead (Feb 17, 2012)

Avatard said:


> No doubt fun but can you put a frame on it for single riders?
> 
> Regarding Drl contact Cravin Morehead. He's a big fan I think there might be some man crush going on there


Gee thx Lou...man crush?? I thought the politically correct term was bromance?? None the less imo the absolute best do all cat is the 12.6'x22.5" legend ... I had Dusty build my frame w/schedule 40 aluminum pipe(same diameter as NRS frame parts) so when I mount my passenger seat I use lowpro's w/a cross bar. This helps move the passanger to a more centered position, better weight distibrution and I move my frame forward 6"-8"...I have done 3 night Rogue trips w/my legend, I weight 315lbs and carry a canyon 90qt cooler and all of my own gear, just stack dry bags on tops of the tubes to balance weight...and now I'm trying to work out a front passanger module that the lowpro's will clamp to the front of the frame, so I have the option to move my passanger to the front, or back...


----------



## Bluefunk (Jul 15, 2011)

WOW!!!! Thanks guys and gals for all the great advise. Right now, unless I get a good deal on something used, I'm leaning toward a 12'6" Legend with the DRL River Gyspy frame. I think that will fit my needs great:
-Easier day trips with a passenger
-Getting after it on harder day trips by myself
-Still able to do overnight trips with gear

The only thing I'm worried about is the balance of the rig with a passenger in the back, but it sounds like if I move the frame up I should be ok. Thanks 

Does anybody know off hand the lenght of the DRL Gypsy frame or the flat section of a 12'6" legend?



oarframe said:


> Hey blue, what are you thinking of running up here? Carson, Truckee, yuba?
> Bout the only thing left this year is the American, which is fine in a 16. My bud runs it in an 18 cat all the time. Of course you could go to the round side and get a small raft for elf trips. pm me if you ever need company, good to know other buzzards on the east side.


Ya it has been a bad year for boating around the Sierra..... I want it to extend my season with the rivers around here, Carson, Truckee ect. I would like to do more tecnical rivers that my 16' couldn't do. Plus it is a pain sometimes to take my 16' and rig, move it around, ect for day trips. I also REALLY want to do the upper Owyhee and the Bruneau in the future. (Can't be next year because I will be on the Grand, unless it is a huge snow year or early or late melt) Always looking for new people to boat with. 



cravinmorehead said:


> I had Dusty build my frame w/schedule 40 aluminum pipe(same diameter as NRS frame parts) so when I mount my passenger seat I use lowpro's w/a cross bar. This helps move the passanger to a more centered position, better weight distibrution and I move my frame forward 6"-8"...I have done 3 night Rogue trips w/my legend, I weight 315lbs and carry a canyon 90qt cooler and all of my own gear, just stack dry bags on tops of the tubes to balance weight...and now I'm trying to work out a front passanger module that the lowpro's will clamp to the front of the frame, so I have the option to move my passanger to the front, or back...


How does the lowpro w/a cross bar seat center the position more? Do you have pictures? I would like to see what you are working on.

Bluefunk


----------



## cravinmorehead (Feb 17, 2012)

My frame is 67" long and hope these help...


----------



## Avatard (Apr 29, 2011)

cravinmorehead said:


> My frame is 67" long and hope these help...


I've seen that on the rio. It takes a 325 lb dude on the front to pull off that balancing act.
That crazy mofo tried to find every hole on the clack. Those ain't glory holes


Wink


----------



## roberts81 (May 18, 2013)

I run JPW boats and can recommend the super cutthroat 2 w/ 19 inch tubes as a great boat and is exactly what you're looking for. They're fun, fast, nimble boats and don't wear out easily. Plus, its nice to support an awesome, local manufacturer (Durango area) who's been doing this for a long time. 

Display Products
http://www.jpwinc.com/products/proddetail.php?prod=4365-cutthroat2-and-frame

The cutthroat 2 is a really fun, nice-sized boat for two people and a light load, or for one person and a significant load, although i prefer a "royal flush" or a daddy cat for multi-day big-water trips where I'm going to be hauling any significant share of the group gear. Jack is a great guy and the gear is bombproof and a great value for the price. (i'm not affiliated with JPW in any way besides liking their boats and having met Jack a few times). Also they don't flip as easily as similarly sized rafts in big water.


----------

