# Raft guide



## treemanji (Jan 23, 2011)

Choose what areas and rivers you would like to work and start applying. The best time to apply is after the new year but before mid Feb. Go the companies you choose web page and fill out the app. and apply.


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## GoodTimes (Mar 9, 2006)

How early in the spring will you be available?

A lot of them start training in March/April...traveling to water, etc. Training can be pretty time consuming...most expect you to spend some time on the stick...not to mention the state training requirements (50 hours on the water I think), before you'll be taking customers down.

If you have the time, it's an awesome way to spend your summers!!! BV/Salida area has the most rafting companies. But there are A LOT of people with the same idea. And as a first year guide...you won't get as many trips as the seasoned peeps (i.e. you may need another job).


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## climbdenali (Apr 2, 2006)

Check back here in the classified section this fall and winter. I think the company I work for is going to start training some guides. Some other companies also post here.

Other than that, get on websites all over and look for info. Keep in mind that first year guides don't make much money, by the time you pay for training, buy gear, and then not getting as many trips as the senior guides. I know a lot of rookie guides who have just broken even over the whole summer. If you can stick with in for a few years though, it can be great.
Good luck!


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## Dirty q tip (Oct 14, 2012)

GoodTimes said:


> How early in the spring will you be available?
> 
> A lot of them start training in March/April...traveling to water, etc. Training can be pretty time consuming...most expect you to spend some time on the stick...not to mention the state training requirements (50 hours on the water I think), before you'll be taking customers down.
> 
> If you have the time, it's an awesome way to spend your summers!!! BV/Salida area has the most rafting companies. But there are A LOT of people with the same idea. And as a first year guide...you won't get as many trips as the seasoned peeps (i.e. you may need another job).


I could be available in march. Not really looking to really bank any cash just have a little coming in for beer money lol!!!


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## RockyMt.Razorback (Apr 19, 2012)

If you aren't worried about making much money the river is for you but my suggestion is to forgo being a guide and be a photo kayaker or safety kayaker, your skills as a boater will explode and you wont have to hang out in a boat with customers all day. The money is even less then a guide makes but still enough to buy beer if that is all you are after. The Arkansas River has a lot of companies and a lot of them use kayaker's as safety. 

P.S All you need is a boat, gear, and a car to sleep in!!


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## raymo (Aug 10, 2008)

Dirty q tip said:


> How does one get hooked up with a raft guide position anybody have any info on this. I live in Kansas City and frequent Colorado to paddle white water.. I have the option to not work spring and summers with my work.. Just think this would be a great way to build my skills and make a little extra while I enjoy my summers in Colorado on the rivers..


 When you get hooked up you are going to love it. Some of the best day's of my life. When I started it was 99% multi-day trips, so three square's a day( rib steaks, baked potatoes etc.) and a great place to sleep. Plus some pay in your pocket. Have fun!


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## salsasean (Apr 20, 2005)

Not to go against what rockyrazor said, but I don't see too many companies hiring people solely as safety kayakers. However, it is a great thing to be able to do to get extra work and gain extra miles. It is the type of thing that you will want to inquire about as you are deciding which companies to apply for. You might also want to inquire about housing(camping), how experienced the rest of their staff is, days off requests, and how many rivers they might run. Most places in Colorado will start their training in May. Another way to have a leg up on the others is to have your First Aid/ CPR certs, and if at all possible a WFR, companies tend to look highly at that.


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## lmyers (Jun 10, 2008)

salsasean said:


> Not to go against what rockyrazor said, but I don't see too many companies hiring people solely as safety kayakers. However, it is a great thing to be able to do to get extra work and gain extra miles. It is the type of thing that you will want to inquire about as you are deciding which companies to apply for. You might also want to inquire about housing(camping), how experienced the rest of their staff is, days off requests, and how many rivers they might run. Most places in Colorado will start their training in May. Another way to have a leg up on the others is to have your First Aid/ CPR certs, and if at all possible a WFR, companies tend to look highly at that.


Sean is giving you very good advice here. I would suggest Buena Vista or Ft. Collins for a first year guide. Lots of great companies to work for here.

I am sure you will get all kinds of responses here, but there is some good information you may want to read on these 2 threads also:

http://www.mountainbuzz.com/forums/f11/guiding-in-the-arkansas-valley-16083.html

http://www.mountainbuzz.com/forums/f11/did-instructor-training-help-your-boating-42290.html


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## Dirty q tip (Oct 14, 2012)

Man! Thanks for the input guys. What is average pay for a guide?


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## climbdenali (Apr 2, 2006)

Average pay for first year guide might be around $30 per half day trip on the Arkansas.

I second Sean's advice, as well.


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## 39571 (May 27, 2012)

30 a half day!!??? that is low balling for sure, thank god i do not work on the ark. Also DO NOT DO IT, Commercial guiding will kill your river sole


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## RockyMt.Razorback (Apr 19, 2012)

Don't listen to these guys guiding is weak just move to the river be a private boater!!! For money take pictures of your junk and put them on the internet. ha ha ha


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## lmyers (Jun 10, 2008)

RockyMt.Razorback said:


> Don't listen to these guys guiding is weak just move to the river be a private boater!!!


I am not a guide and didn't suggest he becomes one. He inquired, and I provided info. I would also suggest moving to a boating destination but getting a different job then guiding. A really sweet one just happens to have opened up at CKS:

CKS Sales Associate


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## MountainManJake (Apr 9, 2012)

I think being a guide is an awesome way to get to know the river better. No, you dont want to do it for the rest of your life but you'll make some great friends/connections and instead of getting a bunch of random advice, you are surrounded by people who have had professional training and experience. I've seen ALOT of sketchy behavior on the river, and regardless of how you choose to boat later on, at least you learned the right way to do things to begin with. Just apply early, and some backups. Also some companies offer free training some companies make you pay for it. you'll also have a list of required gear.

as far as where to raft, pick a river that looks like your speed, and a town you'll be happy to live in. Remember, an 8 on the front range is a 10 in the mountains. but living in the mountains is sick.

you need first aid and CPR. I highly recommend a swiftwater rescue course/certification as well. its a really awesome experience and you learn a ton of skills, however its not required until you want and have enough river miles to become a trip leader.


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## stuntsheriff (Jun 3, 2009)

expect 30 dollars a day tops. learn to play the banjo and you might get an extra dollar every trip !


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## Pizzle (Jun 26, 2007)

If your going to work on the Ark, better watch The HBO tv show Oz to better prepare yourself. Your either a bully or a fluffer son.


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## Randaddy (Jun 8, 2007)

Spaceghost said:


> 30 a half day!!??? that is low balling for sure, thank god i do not work on the ark. Also DO NOT DO IT, Commercial guiding will kill your river sole


I wouldn't take advice from someone who can't spell simple four letter words. As a ten-year raft guide who has worked on the Ark and the Poudre I think you're getting yourself into something great! The energy that comes with showing people the best day of their year is amazing and you'll constantly be amazed that you get paid for it!

Yep, you'll make between $30 and 40 for a half day and probably work 6 half days a week at first. However, you get TIPS - and I can't believe nobody has mentioned this. My average in my first year was probably $10-15 per trip and was nearly $40 in my 10th year. I know some guides that do even better than that. A six-day a week senior guide in Colorado, working for an ideal company can earn nearly $10,000 in a season with tips and pay combined - but it will take a long time to get there. Count on making about $3000 total your first summer and most of that in July and August when the water is a lot lower. 

As for where to go, this topic has been debated ad infinitum so I'l stick to advice where I've worked. The Ark is fun, and has a much deeper, richer guide culture - but Brown's Canyon is really easy and the work usually ends in mid-August. If you're looking to camp and party all summer it might be for you. Lots of boat traffic. The Poudre is a better (much more fun IMHO) river at high water, but doesn't have guaranteed flows like the Ark can. However, in a good snow year you can earn money running the same 2 miles over and over again all the way through August, which can mean a lot of cash to a rookie. Fort Collins is a cool town, but is a LOT bigger than B.V. It's hard to camp all summer, but there is more going on than just the river.

I would suggest making a list of companies in both towns and applying after you see what the snow is looking like in February. Big snow - go to the Poudre. Less snow - maybe the Ark. Of course there is commercial rafting on the Animas in Durango, other sections of the Arkansas (Royal Gorge, etc.) and all over the U.S. so don't stick to these two necessarily - I just wanted to give advice about where I've worked. 

Oh, and if you work in Fort Collins DON'T work for A1 Wildwater. The owner is SOUL-less trash and will literally trim those small paychecks so he can pay the bills on his riverside mansion. I'd recommend training with Rocky Mountain Adventures - the new owner seems great and there is a good balance of experience and youth these days.


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## wheretheriverflows (Mar 4, 2010)

You're funny Randaddy...you trying to keep newbies out of A1?  
Commercial guiding changed my life, so I say DO IT! Live in a tent, eat commercial leftovers day in and day out, get really sick of sandwhiches, NEVER get sick of your clients, get happy and never look back. Granted, I have a roof and cable now and bought my own boat, but that takes a god damn job! Im still saving up for the damn groover! Cheers!


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## The Mogur (Mar 1, 2010)

Dirty q tip said:


> How does one get hooked up with a raft guide position anybody have any info on this. I live in Kansas City and frequent Colorado to paddle white water.. I have the option to not work spring and summers with my work.. Just think this would be a great way to build my skills and make a little extra while I enjoy my summers in Colorado on the rivers..


I wouldn't do day-trip guiding for $30 a day--I paid my guides _twice_ that much _twenty years ago_!

Here's a great company that runs some of the best river trips you can buy. They run a river guide workshop in March, during the week that most colleges have spring break. New guides are frequently hired directly as a result of their performance in the workshop. 

Oregon Rafting - River Vacations and Adventures


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## climbdenali (Apr 2, 2006)

One thing to keep in mind when you say that $30 a day is lousy is that the Arkansas River has one of the longer seasons out there. This year my first trip was on April 15, and our last was October 6. It's also one of the most heavily rafted rivers in the country. A friend of mine mentioned the number of guests the whole river he works on 2 hours from NYC took, and it was similar to what one company out here does in a summer. So, even though you're not making much per trip, there's lots of work.

Also, I was talking $30 per _half-day_ trip. That's about 2 hours on the water, and $60 per day.


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## montuckyhuck (Mar 14, 2010)

Be super excited and you will get good tips. Learn local history and geology to talk about between drops. I banked 4k in tips alone my first summer guiding in Missoula, also got company record for most$100 tips in a season. Why? Because I'm frickin awsome at getting people moist and telling stories. I also worked 40 days in a row peak season.


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## synergyboater (Jan 5, 2008)

Working multiday trips in Co & Ut can provide really great experiences. There are still a few old school companies with small permits on several rivers çreating opportunities to see a lot of country. Pick up a WFR class and create some great memories. I started guiding in 84 and still work a couple of Grand trips each year. Marc


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## Dirty q tip (Oct 14, 2012)

Definitely need to give it a shot.. Sounds like a blast!


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## pyranha_rev (Aug 15, 2011)

Here's my two cents ; I have been been guiding for over 8 years and have around 7 000- 8000 miles of commercially guided trips! 

Guide on clear creek! You make more money than the Arkansas . I laugh when you make 30 a day! On clear creek you can guide three trips a day easily !!!!! I would clear around 5000 before tips a season and not work my ass off!! ( I work for a smaller company ) Clear creek is narrower, faster and has more gradient than the Arkansas. Meaning its harder to guide on , which in turn makes you a better guide faster!!! I guide can guide on any river I want now because of clear creek! 
In case any ark guide says shit; yes I've done pine creek and royal gorge at high water and no it's not harder than clear creek canyon!!! Send me a pm because we do train guides the first of may!! For around 300 but it doesn't mean you get a job we only take the best guides! But you can take the training and get a job on the ark pretty easily!!


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## BrianK (Feb 3, 2005)

Sections of Clear Creek are definitely harder to raft than the Ark - but that doesn't make them better. Rafting is not kayaking - commercial rafting in Colorado is always better with more water, and Clear Creek has a serious lack of water for most of the summer in normal years. If you want to work day trips in Colorado - split the difference - go to the Poudre. It has more water than Clear Creek (more than the Ark in good years), and you can make much more than $30/day. The Poudre also has better kayaking options than the Ark, plus its a college town with college women.


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## idahofloater (Feb 23, 2011)

Ever think about just being a shuttle driver? It seems that every year some river goes off and there is not enough shuttles in that area. The owyhee was that way two years ago. A friend made bank running shuttles there. If you have freedom to move and a good driving record you should be able to do your own thing and make enough to provide a good hang over. In Idaho guided trips were down 18% in 2012 and 15% in 2011. So, if this continues??? But non-guided trips are flat. so just maybe shuttle services are an option.


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## salsasean (Apr 20, 2005)

Just throwing a few more thoughts out for your consideration. I think you should go somewhere will you have the ability to learn to row as well as paddle guide. I know on Clear Creek they are not commercially rowing trip and I am not sure about the Poudre. It is a great skill to learn in case you do ever want to get into multi days for work or pleasure. I have been down the grand twice now, once in my kayak once rowing a raft and I will take the raft next time. Now as far as kayaking after work, the Buena Vista area is probably the best place to be. I personally would not like to guide everyday on Brown's but for the after work boating, Pine Creek, Numbers and play parks are all right there. You are also very centrally located for taking day trips to the numerous other rivers in the state. While I agree, to some extent, that Clear Creek will make you a better guide, I think the Ark will give you plenty of great experience your first season with better after work kayaking options. I worked up there my first 4 seasons in this game and have come out a pretty decent guide, I hope. Also the $30 is for a half day, not including tips and you can do 2, sometimes 3 trips in a day. Research different companies about there training class, hiring policies, pay and amount of work you might be able to get. When you narrow it down to a few companies and locations you are interested in, ask on here about them. You'll get more than enough answers. It is a great thing to do for a summer, I just finished my 16th.


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## The Mogur (Mar 1, 2010)

pyranha_rev said:


> Guide on clear creek! You make more money than the Arkansas . I laugh when you make 30 a day! On clear creek you can guide three trips a day easily !!!!!!!


Now we've gotten to the heart of the matter. Do you want to guide three trips a day? Or would you rather get to know people and enjoy the outdoors with them? (This isn't a test, and there isn't a wrong answer.)

Most of my guides preferred doing the 4 and 5 day trips over doing day trips. They liked people (a primary requisite for being a river guide, by the way) and they liked taking them into a world that most of them had never known.

I've probably spent as much time guiding day trips as I have multi-day trips. I enjoyed both (or I wouldn't have done it). I had some guides who would do only day trips, and others who refused to do day trips.

We were mostly a multi-day trip company (Rogue, Lower Salmon, Owyhee, Deschutes, Grand Ronde, John Day, Klamath) but we also did a lot of day trips (Clackamas, North Santiam, North Umpqua, Deschutes), so the guides had some flexibility.

You should reflect on what kind of guiding suits you best.


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## 39571 (May 27, 2012)

Oh randaddy, I am glad you see the shit light at the end of brecks tunnel. I told you he would screw you! As far as my spelling goes thanks for making fun of the dyslexic kid, do you beat up kids in wheel chairs as well? 

P.S. I really enjoyed our romantic dirt bike ride up trough road


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## bigben (Oct 3, 2010)

Randaddy said:


> Oh, and if you work in Fort Collins DON'T work for A1 Wildwater. The owner is SOUL-less trash and will literally trim those small paychecks so he can pay the bills on his riverside mansion..


x2. pretty sure he's assfucked every single person who's ever worked for him. he definitely worked over my petite lil' butthole 



Spaceghost said:


> P.S. I really enjoyed our romantic dirt bike ride up trough road


i always know you 2 would kiss and make up. wish i woulda been there to see you 2 spooning on a dirtbike... really does sound romantic


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## Randaddy (Jun 8, 2007)

Spaceghost said:


> Oh randaddy, I am glad you see the shit light at the end of brecks tunnel. I told you he would screw you! As far as my spelling goes thanks for making fun of the dyslexic kid, do you beat up kids in wheel chairs as well?
> 
> P.S. I really enjoyed our romantic dirt bike ride up trough road[/QUOTE
> 
> ...


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## DVKEXP (Aug 3, 2009)

Randaddy said:


> I would suggest making a list of companies in both towns and applying after you see what the snow is looking like in February. Big snow - go to the Poudre. Less snow - maybe the Ark. Of course there is commercial rafting on the Animas in Durango, other sections of the Arkansas (Royal Gorge, etc.) and all over the U.S. so don't stick to these two necessarily - I just wanted to give advice about where I've worked.
> 
> Oh, and if you work in Fort Collins DON'T work for A1 Wildwater. The owner is SOUL-less trash and will literally trim those small paychecks so he can pay the bills on his riverside mansion. I'd recommend training with Rocky Mountain Adventures - the new owner seems great and there is a good balance of experience and youth these days.


We teach an SRT course for RMA every season for their rookies and recerts and I'm curious does that river have Didimo? River snot if you will... I have seen it in New Zealand and it looks very similar to what is in the Poudre.


MountainManJake said:


> I think being a guide is an awesome way to get to know the river better. No, you dont want to do it for the rest of your life but you'll make some great friends/connections and instead of getting a bunch of random advice, you are surrounded by people who have had professional training and experience. I've seen ALOT of sketchy behavior on the river, and regardless of how you choose to boat later on, at least you learned the right way to do things to begin with. Just apply early, and some backups. Also some companies offer free training some companies make you pay for it. you'll also have a list of required gear.
> 
> as far as where to raft, pick a river that looks like your speed, and a town you'll be happy to live in. Remember, an 8 on the front range is a 10 in the mountains. but living in the mountains is sick.
> 
> you need first aid and CPR. I highly recommend a swiftwater rescue course/certification as well. its a really awesome experience and you learn a ton of skills, however its not required until you want and have enough river miles to become a trip leader.


500 miles to trip lead, and Rescue3 is the only internationally accepted SRT training course. Although a New Zealand Guide license seems to work pretty darn well too.



salsasean said:


> Just throwing a few more thoughts out for your consideration. I think you should go somewhere will you have the ability to learn to row as well as paddle guide. I know on Clear Creek they are not commercially rowing trip and I am not sure about the Poudre. It is a great skill to learn in case you do ever want to get into multi days for work or pleasure. I have been down the grand twice now, once in my kayak once rowing a raft and I will take the raft next time. Now as far as kayaking after work, the Buena Vista area is probably the best place to be. I personally would not like to guide everyday on Brown's but for the after work boating, Pine Creek, Numbers and play parks are all right there. You are also very centrally located for taking day trips to the numerous other rivers in the state. While I agree, to some extent, that Clear Creek will make you a better guide, I think the Ark will give you plenty of great experience your first season with better after work kayaking options. I worked up there my first 4 seasons in this game and have come out a pretty decent guide, I hope. Also the $30 is for a half day, not including tips and you can do 2, sometimes 3 trips in a day. Research different companies about there training class, hiring policies, pay and amount of work you might be able to get. When you narrow it down to a few companies and locations you are interested in, ask on here about them. You'll get more than enough answers. It is a great thing to do for a summer, I just finished my 16th.


Clear Creek is a great spot, but you are not likely to be getting awesome trips your first year, and that can be discouraging. The Ark has almost 70 companies (at least that was the number a few years ago, some grow some go) so there is plenty of options there. Salsasean is very correct in saying that you want to learn to row as well as spend some time after hours kayaking. No better place than the Ark for that really.
If you learn to row and you are a good fisherman then you can really set yourself up to cash out well in the summer. $100 a day in tips is standard and it's not uncommon to see upwards of $200 a day for multi-day trips if you don't suck at your job. I once got $2500 for an overnight fishing trip.

Some companies in the Ark valley have on property housing and a lot of others will direct you to a campsite. Most of them have in house training, but this usually does not include SRT training ($375 course) or oar instruction (at least initially). 

The biggest question to ask yourself before becoming a river god is what your interests are. Do you want to see 7 different people every couple hours and hustle their fat A's down some riffles, or do you want to spend some time out under the stars learning the multi-day thing...

Shameless Plug: DVK has a May guide training that lasts 3 weeks and includes an SRT course and 4 different rivers right off the bat in your raft guiding career. We also have guide housing and food optionally included for those that are hired. This is probably the most expensive training around and due to that it deters some, but you must understand that your first trip is a 6 day Green River trip in Utah (clients pay a lot to go on that trip) and then you run 3 other rivers before your first work day. So at $750 it's not that bad of a deal. Usually our rookies have nearly 500 miles within their first month of work and from that point on you are entirely judged upon your skills. I. E. if you are competent in your first season then there is a chance we will check you out in the Royal Gorge or Numbers as well as give you some solid international connections to further your boating career. Many companies will not check someone out on a Grade IV section until at least their 3rd season.

Also if you scrub out of DVK for whatever reason (very few do) then you've got SRT Training and Echo or Noah's Ark will be all over your junk with that (it means you'd probably be the most trained at the company)...

Any questions you might have I'd recommend you ask SalsaSean he has been around and would definitely give you some good insight into the Arkansas or Clear Creek scene. Finally there is also 3 Rivers area near Gunnison and the Upper Taylor is really fun. We also SRT train their guides and they have a very smooth setup.

Smart move BTW hitting up the Buzz for some answers early on.


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## DVKEXP (Aug 3, 2009)

This defines Disco Night pretty well to BTW...

MACKLEMORE & RYAN LEWIS - THRIFT SHOP FEAT. WANZ (OFFICIAL VIDEO) - YouTube


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## liftedlimo (Aug 3, 2012)

40/day? No thanks!


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## eljim (Sep 19, 2007)

salsasean said:


> Not to go against what rockyrazor said, but I don't see too many companies hiring people solely as safety kayakers. However, it is a great thing to be able to do to get extra work and gain extra miles. It is the type of thing that you will want to inquire about as you are deciding which companies to apply for. You might also want to inquire about housing(camping), how experienced the rest of their staff is, days off requests, and how many rivers they might run. Most places in Colorado will start their training in May. Another way to have a leg up on the others is to have your First Aid/ CPR certs, and if at all possible a WFR, companies tend to look highly at that.


Jimmy Whiteside at Royal Gorge Rafting employee safety and photo kayakers. I am to old and crabby to put up with his little mouth breathers, but he is good people and pays the best.


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## lmyers (Jun 10, 2008)

eljim said:


> Jimmy Whiteside at Royal Gorge Rafting employee safety and photo kayakers. I am to old and crabby to put up with his little mouth breathers, but he is good people and pays the best.


As do many companies, but are they solely kayakers? All the companies I know of use senior guides who kayak.... other then RMOC.


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## Aerocam (Jul 11, 2011)

Don't forget California...

There's a different river drainage coming out of the Sierra's every 50 miles or so. The Kern and the American are the busiest, but find a company that does a bunch of rivers and have a great time.

Don't know what the current requirements are, but back in the old days, ('83-'96), CPR/basic First aid was all we needed. Anything over that made you pretty desireable. 

Good luck on your job search!


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## stuntsheriff (Jun 3, 2009)

oh yeah, don't be the guy that brags about your tips.


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## eljim (Sep 19, 2007)

Yep, just kayaking. You need to be very comfy in your boat a cut off levels though. If running the gorge with ranch dressing filled Texan trying to drown you doesn't sound fun then disregard my post.


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