# Where to go boat? decisions, decisions



## krashhadley (Mar 13, 2008)

Hey buzzards, looking for some good beta on god places to go work as a raft guide next summer. I live in the CO now, and there are ample places to boat within our borders, but I'm thinking about the other 47 states nearby. My mom lives in San Francisco so being that we have a 3 year old girl, Cali might be a good option. If it were you, where would you go. I want a good mix of water, I want to scare the shit out of myself on some runs but also have family friendly options. Living in an RV is an option.


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## BarryDingle (Mar 13, 2008)

krashhadley said:


> looking for some beta on god places to go work as a raft guide next summer.


Keep god outve California!

Why does Cali always get overlooked? Well,I know why,but... It sounds like Cali has everything you want. NorCal it is...


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## 2tomcat2 (May 27, 2012)

You might check out South Bay River Rafters, runs out of n. cal...had my first paddling experiences with them in the 70's, great guides; in fact, 'ole Sidewinder Ed (24 years guiding for SBRR) looks like he is still around.

Whitewater river rafting trips - Adventure, Nature and Fun!


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## dirtbagkayaker (Oct 29, 2008)

I'd go get myself a real job that is year round and can pay the bills and take care of that 3 year old. Grow up and be a man. Take care of you family. Thats where I'd go if I were in your shoes.


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## krashhadley (Mar 13, 2008)

Interesting opinion dirtbag. If more money is your only definition of taking care of family, then yeah you're right. But in my experience " the more money we come across the more problems we see." I don't a lecture, just good beta. Keep your judgements to yourself, and for the record, my little girl will always be fed clothed and sheltered before I am. Have fun at your real job


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## krashhadley (Mar 13, 2008)

BD, and Tomcat, thanks for the beta, and if anyone else has any beta please post away. But if all you want is to tell me how to live my life, well it'll be in one ear and out the other, so you might as well save your energy for boating. Interestingly enough, this was my wife's idea, I just happened to think it was an awesome idea.


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## ranchman44 (Apr 16, 2009)

Hay Great idea do the river thing while you are young -your daughter will love the life style and will grow up thanking you for the experience . My kids were raised by a river rat -me and they are into whitewater -so are my grand kids. you might look at the Nantahal out Door Center in Bryson City North Carolina . They run river at all levels and are very good people to work for . The rivers there are all levels from 5 to 1's . Good luck and listen to your wife !!


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## ranchman44 (Apr 16, 2009)

Oh by the way it takes a real man to make the decesion to live the river life style and be a family man you are on the right track. you and your clan will never regret this path and if it doesn't work just change gears and do something else. Life is to short to not enjoy


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## krashhadley (Mar 13, 2008)

ranchman44 said:


> Oh by the way it takes a real man to make the decesion to live the river life style and be a family man you are on the right track. you and your clan will never regret this path and if it doesn't work just change gears and do something else. Life is to short to not enjoy


I agree Ranchman, that is my hope and plan. And if it doesn't work out I'll find another way. 
I'd love to check out appalachian runs, but the lady wants to stay closer to home, at least for the first year or two of our little adventure. But I hope we can steadily venture further and further and meet more and more people along the way. We might do Cali only because that is where my mom lives and we'd be borrowing her RV to live in. That thing costs about $700 to drive from CO to CA, the Subby costs about $150 max. But as we get better at budgeting farther destinations will become feasible.
The boating community is full of great people who raised their families on the river. everyone I've ever met who was raised this way has had the three attributes that I want my daughter to have, happiness, kindness, and confidence.


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## ranchman44 (Apr 16, 2009)

You might look at betty buzz on this site . Lots of families


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## dirtbagkayaker (Oct 29, 2008)

krashhadley said:


> Interesting opinion dirtbag. If more money is your only definition of taking care of family, then yeah you're right. But in my experience " the more money we come across the more problems we see." I don't a lecture, just good beta. Keep your judgements to yourself, and for the record, my little girl will always be fed clothed and sheltered before I am. Have fun at your real job


 
Sorry! Didn't mean to piss you off. Its not about the money. Its about being a man plain and simple. Providing health care and a stable place to live and build a future and grow friends. you can't do that as a guilde. unless you buy the company. you wouldn't get it. You will later in life. I suggest you print this thread and read it to yourself in 15 years. Coming from a father of two girls and you have no idea what your getting into. Later. :mrgreen:


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## GoodTimes (Mar 9, 2006)

dirtbagkayaker said:


> Sorry! Didn't mean to piss you off. Its not about the money. Its about being a man plain and simple. Providing health care and a stable place to live and build a future and grow friends. you can't do that as a guilde. unless you buy the company. you wouldn't get it. You will later in life. I suggest you print this thread and read it to yourself in 15 years. Coming from a father of two girls and you have no idea what your getting into. Later. :mrgreen:


To each his own...while that is the status quo, it's not everyone's definition of a happy life.

I've met many people that have grown up in a more simplistic (and perhaps vagabond) lifestyle that seemed quite well adjusted and had plenty of friends.

I've gone the "responsible" route and sometimes think "simple" would be better...certainly less stressful.

I tend to think the measure of a man is greater than providing healthcare and an environment to make friends.


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## Favre (Nov 17, 2010)

GoodTimes, I couldn't agree more.

I have found a balance, but just like you, more work than play occupies my time as a 30 year old man.

As far as dirtbagkayaker, I question how much credibility you have to say those things when you have grammar errors (i.e. "take care of you kids) spelling errors (i.e. guide not guilde) and you won't even capitalize your fragment sentences. Not to be a dick, but...

I'm not buying the "you wouldn't get it" attitude. Plenty of real "grown up" men have chosen a rich lifestyle rather than a rich income/job. My elderly grandfather has told me more than once than the word "wealth" come from another language's word "weal" which means family. That to me suggests a completely different idea of what it means to be rich. Happiness is perhaps the most important thing you can pass on to your children. 

Although I don't want to foreclose on my house or quit the job I don't love but work at anyway, my desktop wallpaper is a reminder of what I have come to believe in life. *"The most dangerous risk of all - the risk of spending your life not doing what you want on the bet you can buy yourself the freedom to do it later." * 

There is a balance, but my father getting me involved with river sports was the single greatest gift he could have given me.


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## krashhadley (Mar 13, 2008)

Read at your own risk

I'm sorry that this thread has taken this route, I only wanted some good input on possible places to go that offer a bit of everything for us, but sometimes people just need to be reminded that hey don't get to make decisions for other people. Dirtbag, I'm talking to you.

As I understand the term, a dirtbag kayaker is one who spends more time living out of their car than in a house, more time on the river than in the office, and more time following the serendipitous course of events than judging the decisions of other men. Rivers flow downstream bro. Dirtbag kayaker, maybe you once fit the description, but it seems like now you're just that guy that used to live the life, until he "grew up." and don't worry you didn't piss me off, I just think it's interesting that you found it so offensive that someone would want to live life in a manner other than how you live, that box must be getting pretty cramped. Has the river taught you nothing? Maybe you should drop the term kayaker from your name, maybe now, you're just someone who kayaks, anyone can learn to roll and kayak and make it down a river. But kayakers are people who have been humbled by the river enough to know better than to think that they know best. Kayakers know that life is best lived moment to moment, and that no matter how good you read the water, the river will surprise you. That's a metaphor by the way 

I personally believe that success comes from happiness, not the other way around, and if their is one thing I care about passing on to my daughter that is it. You can make all the money in the world and have the best retirement plan, health plan, house, etc and be completely miserable, just take one look at the crap people watch on TV, can you believe that stuff gets good ratings. I have chosen a different path. For those who think I'm just some guy trying to dodge responsibility, well I guess that is completely dependent on your definition of responsibility. 

Thank you to all of you who have simply posted beta, I really appreciate it. And thanks to those of you who have lived the life I'm imagining and shared your thoughts on this thread, you have provided me with the inspiration to move forward. It's time for this squabble to be done, if anyone has any stories of raising families on the river or good beta on awesome places to try it, please feel free to send me a message. Otherwise, save your breathe.


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## krashhadley (Mar 13, 2008)

As one final closing statement, check my signature quote. that pretty much sums it up. Thanks Oscar Wilde


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## ranchman44 (Apr 16, 2009)

Nice reply but really don't take the buzz too serious . Concentrate on the positive and ignore the negative . not to say that dirt bag didn't have a different view but remember we all are different . 
I took a year off from a professional job when I was 30 and opened a float company in Jackson Wy It went belly up but I would not have traded that experience for the world .
I have been involved in being a retailer of paddling gear and an out fitter since that time and loved the people I have come in contact with . Yes there are the jerks but just let them paddle on down the stream .


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## idahofloater (Feb 23, 2011)

I somewhat agree with dirtbag. You'll go broke working for a guidle company. You'll be lucky to get steady work as a guidle your first year. You should try to "Buy" one of the many outfit companies for sale. You are young and have time. *I think you should aspire to more than a "dirtbag" part time seasonal job lifestyle when raising childern.* IDK, maybe thats just me and dirtbag. but, not to be a dick, you should look into buying. Its easier than ever to start a new business. Work smarter not harder! If your 1/2 as smart as you think you are it will be a sinche!


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## kelloggshow (Jun 14, 2011)

*Totally Agree with my fellow GWS flee-err ...*

We are in the process of selling our house and moving into our RV full time, for an indefinite amount of time ... 14 of us, including a newborn and 2 dogs!! Did it all summer, it's incredibly freeing and liberating!! Wish we'd done this 18 years ago ... “Wealth consists not in having great possessions, but in having few wants.” ― Epictetus

KelloggShow.com | Living Off the Grid with Eleven Kids


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## ranchman44 (Apr 16, 2009)

WOW!! Kellog totally awesome read you blog and totally impressed we need a web site just for you to unfold your story .If you ever travel thru Ark or Okla drop me a line --I have a big house and you are welcome here ---Oh for a couple of days that is --LOL


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## dirtbagkayaker (Oct 29, 2008)

Here is just a small sample of research since Favre questioned my credibility. 

child well being and housing

income and child development

childern and housing

Just the facts.


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## BrianP (Nov 13, 2011)

Did you actually read those? They're saying that if you're poor and homeless (read: don't have enough to eat, don't have adequate clothing, education, etc) that your chances of a successful life/career are worse. To cite those studies is ridiculous, you have to look past the first paragraph that says, kids who live in homes do better than those on the streets..you don't need a study to tell you that. I don't think this guy is proposing to go live on the street and sell drugs to make it. It wouldn't be my choice for how to do things but live and let live.


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## Favre (Nov 17, 2010)

Thank you Brian..

And to the dirtbag, I actually think citing those studies further hurts any credibility you had..

Point is, don't judge and mind your own business.


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## BrianP (Nov 13, 2011)

And the whole income thing is only part of the equation. Low income families or homeless families tend to not be as stable as one with 60-70k and a mortgage. Taking a well balanced family with good morals, ethics, values, whatever, etc and putting them in an RV isn't going to make them a failure. Likewise, giving a drug dealing thug a nice house won't make him less of a POS.


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## Paul7 (Aug 14, 2012)

Ok you all need to go paddle! I've got kids and a house and a job and in my experience we are always changing and readjusting. There's seasons for everything in life.


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## krashhadley (Mar 13, 2008)

Ranchman, good point. positivity is the key. For the record, I'm a full time student working toward a teaching degree. Once completed and employed that will take care of the long term financial situation. Not planning to get rich, just pay the bills. And while summers off is a sweet perk of teaching, that is not the reason I want to teach. 

Dirtbag, you have your point, but I have to contend that the research you provided is all statistics and surveys, good for looking at the big picture, but not so great at analyzing individual cases. Think what you want, but I have always provided for my family, and I always have their best interests in mind. I would not consider this adventure if I thought it would hurt my family. Thanks for your input, but if we can make this happen we're going for it, and if we keep a positive outlook as the experiences roll in, we will have positive outcomes. Simple as that.


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## ranchman44 (Apr 16, 2009)

There are many teachers that are raft guides in the summer . Very nice balance .
Go for it !!


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## pilom (Dec 28, 2010)

To put this thread back on track...

I guided in Ohiopyle, PA for 3 years and it was a pretty awesome place to guide. Very consistent work May through September. Most customers don't come until the spring run-off is done so you get most of the big water and creeking to yourself if you want it (or you can volunteer as one of the couple guides actually working). The lower yough (III+) runs 365 days a year and the Upper Yough (IV+/V) runs most Fridays, Saturdays and Mondays. 

The coolest thing about working the lower yough is the Guide Assisted trip format. Its a class III river without a guide in every raft. One guide in the lead raft, one guide R1ing the sweep raft with lunches (get your paddle skills up to snuff, this aint no oar rig) and 2-3 kayakers in the middle setting safety and giving hand signals from big rocks. You'll deal with a flipped raft at least 1x a week, and often 2-3 flips per trip depending on waterlevels.

I will say if you want to kayak, work for Wilderness Voyageurs as pretty much every single employee (guides, photo staff, res, management) is either an accomplished kayaker or actively learning how to kayak more than 3 days a week. They do staff trips to kayak waterfalls in west virginia and a Gauley fest trip. 

Lastly, there is an 18ft perfectly clean waterfall that runs most of the season within walking distance of the outfitters. Eat your heart out!


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