# Why is that dog in you'r car?



## jpbay

Ok what gives,you go skiing or boarding and bring the dog so you can leave it locked in the car all day Does anyone think that dog likes it? Leave the dog at home or don't ski & take the dog for a long walk !


----------



## Bryan

Personally, My dog would much rather go with the family and wait in the car while we ski than stay home by herself. I usually check on her every few hours and let her out to run a bit. 
There are so many different dog personalities out there that you can't generalize what's best for all of them. 
I always find it interesting that people with ill behaved dogs usually keep them on a leash and get irritated at others for letting their dogs run around free.


----------



## lmyers

Bryan said:


> Personally, My dog would much rather go with the family and wait in the car while we ski than stay home by herself. I usually check on her every few hours and let her out to run a bit.
> There are so many different dog personalities out there that you can't generalize what's best for all of them.
> I always find it interesting that people with ill behaved dogs usually keep them on a leash and get irritated at others for letting their dogs run around free.


 
I agree about leaving a dog in the car. Sometimes I will take mine to the hill and come out every couple of hours and walk them and play with them...I'm pretty sure they are happier this way then sitting at home waiting.

However, on your other statement I must say something. I have always been a person who buys puppies, trains them well and allows them off leash 99% of the time. 1.5 years ago I got a male Golden Retriever from a Denver rescue, he had been through 4 owners and was only 2 years old...he has issues, lots of them, but I try hard to work with him to get better. I have to leash him because he can be unpredictable, sometimes a little aggresive. I like to try and socialize him with other dogs, but when a stranger runs up out of nowhere when I'm not looking it makes it tough to maintain the discipline I have worked so hard on....so all I ask is if your dog is under verbal command, try to keep them in view, that way you can give commands if a situation happens.


----------



## ~Bank

Yup...I've got a couple dogs, They love hanging in the car all day! If I leave the doors open, I know where to find em'...They would rather hang in a cozy plush den just like fox, coyote, and wolf. I think the only reason they leave the den is for food, water or to use your car & stuff for a bathroom. The only time I let them out is when it's above 120F. Had three dogs, all wild and off the leash without collars...I had to have computer chips implanted, in-case someone like you calls the pound...


----------



## RiverCowboy

OK, what gives, you go skiing or boarding and spend enough time walking to my truck (which is really far because I get there late) to see if my dog is locked in there all day instead of getting a good day in on the hill? My dog does like it because she thinks she is protecting my shit. Maybe next time I will leave the window down so you will try to pet her. She would be so much happier biting your ass because she thought you were stealing my shit than she would be sitting on the couch all day with no handi-sped to bother her. I understand you are concerned about the well-being of canines that have no control over the situations they are involved in, but I am only seconding Bryan's observation. My dog lays in the my seat to keep in warm for me, and eats people that touch my shit. She's earned the right to go wherever I go. Everybody understands if your teacup Chihuahua doesn't have that respect.


----------



## RiverCowboy

And I admit that now I am a handi-sped because "My dog lays in the my seat to keep in warm for me" sounded pretty ridiculous. "In my seat...keep it warm". Proofreading works!


----------



## BarryDingle

Yeah,I do think he likes it. My dog is infinitely times more happy riding up to the mountain w/ us,vs sitting at home. He knows the routine....play fetch,climb snow mounds and then happily jumps in the back of my truck to lay and wait. He gets relief every couple hours for safety meetings and lunch. At the end of the day he gets even more excited b/c he knows its his turn to go next and rip up loveland pass. He's faster than you,piss off


----------



## smoes

I usually leave my girlfriend in the car too. she cant ski and she doesnt want to be left at home.


----------



## jpbay

I see my dogs all week,I have a big house for them to protect.I leave the window open just to see some burglar's blood! Personaly I spend my ski day skiing not dog sitting.My point is of the animal neglect that I saw this weekend.Glad you take care of you'r dogs. The owner of the one i saw should have been arested an may have been!


----------



## ~Bank

*Indoor bathroom for a big house so you can leave all day to go skiing.*

~

~YOUR NOT HOME ALL-DAY DOG BATROOM VIDEO~

~INDOOR DOG BATHROOM~(for your big house) CLICK HERE TO PURCHASE


~


----------



## smoes

this might be a better place 

craigslist | personals

to post this...


----------



## Gremlin

That's why I know I am a cat person. They certainly prefer laying around the wood stove in the rays of sunshine beaming in. I don't need to wonder what they are thinking. They don't care if I'm working, skiing, or gone for the weekend. I don't think they meow all day when I'm not there. I MIGHT be wrong, but I KNOW my neighbor is wrong about his dog BECAUSE I CAN HEAR IT ALL DAY!


----------



## rtsideup

As long as she's not shitting in the skin track, or trying to bight my hand while I'm petting her in your car... I don't care what you do with your girlfriend while you ski.


----------



## Bryan

Smoes,
Was your girl friend hanging out in a Subaru today at Loveland? If so she could not have looked happier.


----------



## montuckyhuck

smoes said:


> I usually leave my girlfriend in the car too. she cant ski and she doesnt want to be left at home.


Classic.... but seriously all dogs would have a different preferance. I know dawgs that want to stay home and guard the roost. My dog gets more nervious at home, he will pace around or dig holes. In my car he feels like he knows what's up and usually just goes to sleep. Know your dog. I usually don't ride the lifts that often so days he can't come rippin bc with me he is content with a rest day.


----------



## jpbay

The sign on my driveway says never mind the dogs! look out for nice lady with the .357 There are to many animals here to leave them alone for more than 8 hours .The nice lady with the .357 does't ski but shure can have a great meal when ready in my BIG HOUSE when I get home from skiing 25-30 thousand vertical instead of dog watching.It's a great life. My dog days are not ski days


----------



## montuckyhuck

Congrats, you have a BIG HOUSE and a wife with a small gun. We call that a Montana pee shooter. But seriously dude, its great you have a loving wife to watch your animals while you are out being superradicalcoloradoskisteriotypeguy but not all of us have that. Don't jump to judge so quick. My dog is a rescue with some seperation issues. I also think he may have been beatin in his former life. When I first got him I lived in my truck, he rode everywhere with me and would sleep in the back of my BIG TRUCK with me. I give my dog more exercise than most dog owners I know, probably even you. I don't know of a ski area that the lifts stay open for more than 7 hours. I consider part of being a responsible dog owner being willing to cut my day 2 hours short for my beautiful German Shepherd/Pit X. Shits tracked by 2 anyway and I don't like doing back scratchers off of moguels. Not everyone has your life, your dog, or your "tude" broski.


----------



## whip

TROLL


----------



## jpbay

To quote Paul Harvy: And now the rest of the story. ( From1990)While patroling We brought in a patiante with a fractured femur.He was skiing by himself and had his dog in the suv.We offered to shuttle his truck down the mountian to his family members(they had no way to do it at that time) The dog was a lab mix and had other thoughts about someone taken that truck,The dog went Montana size guns about it.The dog chewed the seats to shreads!The sheriff was called in. bad seen A family member made the drive up the mountian and was able to control the dog.Anyway thats almost the same thing as what happend this weekend.Ski safe ,raft safe ,you'r dog can't drive the truck! PS montuckyhuch the .357 is just her pee shooter too!


----------



## montuckyhuck

Ok, well we seem to be on a similar page. I get pissed off at bad dog owners and people who lump all dog owners as bad. I have a dog that looks mean and acts like a kitten. I trained him to be cool with most everything. He would let a stranger in my truck. I just know he likes to be there more than my house. I don't need a guard dog. In fact I think no bark no bite is the only way a dog should act and train accordingly. I understand the concern for ill treated dogs but I don't think all dogs left in cars are the aformentioned. You and your gun wielden wife are welcome to come shred pow, rivers, and shoot high powered weaponry in MT. Any time you please.... for the record I have a short 12 guage, 30-06, 44 carbine and whene I have the money will get a .454 black hawk. Bring the arsinal and let's go shoot shit and boat!


----------



## dograft83

I think the buzz should have a gun form as well. Guns always come up. Just saying. I like guns a lot.


----------



## Canada

*This one made me angry*

I used to have this awesome chocolate lab. Alot of people on this site knew her by name and didn't know me. She hated being left at home and loved hanging out in the car. So, I would bring her along on ski days. I even put a dish in the back so she would have water. One day I came back to my car at Keystone (yes rip away) and some tool had scratched leave your dog at home on my window. At the time, I was much poorer than I am today. I had to replace the window. To this day, I would like to find the self rightous tool that did that and give them a bit of justice. 

Dogs are pretty adaptable. I'm not the let them run on the lot guy, like many used to do at the beach at the basin. Many dogs really do love being out there. Even if it is just watching the activity of the parking lot from inside a car. 

I think a better question to throw out on a web site might be "What is it about certain ski patrollers that make them self rightous judgemental tools?"


----------



## MtnGuyXC

*Dogs Stay or Go*

I have two dogs who are truly my best friends & they go practically everywhere I go that is feasible...They absolutely prefer staying in my truck over being left behind...it's like it is their second home..They sulk when left home but when it's " Load Up" they could never be happier...Their loyalty is to be where ever I am & as close as possible...The one male who is 15.5 yrs & still going fairly strong has logged over 275,000 miles in his rig.....They are both Blue Heelers & yes.. just try to get in my truck...I rarely lock it..Ha...


----------



## Ture

jpbay said:


> Ok what gives,you go skiing or boarding and bring the dog so you can leave it locked in the car all day Does anyone think that dog likes it? Leave the dog at home or don't ski & take the dog for a long walk !


We travel with our dogs. Putting them in a kennel would cost as much as a human motel every night.

I live on one side of the mountains, my parents live on the other. When we go to visit we stop and ski. The dogs are in a crate in the car with a down sleeping bag. I come down at lunch and walk them. 

They love going for a ride and they love their crate. But they hate people who aren't minding their own business staring in at them when they are in the car. Hate it. Drives them nuts.


----------



## Theophilus

Dogs don't wear wrist watches. They don't know if they have been left in a car 2 minutes or 2 hours. That being said I care more about the dogs than many of the bad owners who leave them in the sun with the windows rolled up and no water. If you aren't that guy; great, you're a good owner.

Last year at Hecla we saw a dog left in a truck that was dying right before our eyes. The heat in that truck cab must have been over 150 degrees. Pretty sorry ass of whoever left him there thinking their dog was having good time while he/she was running Brown's Canyon. Closest I've come to smashing a window out of a truck. If it were a child the parent would be in jail. Most dog owners will say "my dog is like my kid". It leaves me to wonder how some of them care for their children. I've met bad dog owners who feel their dogs are just property to dispose of as they see fit and maybe this owner just didn't know any better. 

Many don't think it gets "that hot" in a parking lot of a ski resort in winter. They should put a thermometer on their dash sometime and check it. Wise owners put sunguards in their windshield, crack windows more than 1/16th of an inch, and leave water before they go off to play without their best friend. Some animal cruelty simply comes from a lack of knowledge. 

Sorry for the long rant, but I love dogs.


----------



## Fry

You will see my dog in my car. Leave him and me alone.


----------



## swedgen

I agree with the majority. My dogs would rather be in the car than left in the house.


----------



## carvedog

jpbay said:


> To quote Paul Harvy: And now the rest of the story. ( From1990)While patroling We brought in a patiante with a fractured femur.He was skiing by himself and had his dog in the suv.We offered to shuttle his truck down the mountian to his family members(they had no way to do it at that time) The dog was a lab mix and had other thoughts about someone taken that truck,The dog went Montana size guns about it.The dog chewed the seats to shreads!The sheriff was called in. bad seen A family member made the drive up the mountian and was able to control the dog.Anyway thats almost the same thing as what happend this weekend.Ski safe ,raft safe ,you'r dog can't drive the truck! PS montuckyhuch the .357 is just her pee shooter too!


your read makes mine head hurting. 

What r Montana.size guns to a dog?gone weird righting styles you have hears. 

I used to leave my dog in the car. Totally happy. Loved it. Always sleeping when I got back to the car. Park in shady, quiet spot of the lot. Sun shades, windows cracked. 

I also did a really irresponsible thing (even for an extremely well behaved social dog) - I just left him at the base area to run wild for a couple hours. He got so many treats and was so happy. He didn't puke that night either, so that was a bonus. I would do cruise bys to see if he was around. One time he had the whole D team snuggling him. Another it was a flock of teenage snowboarders. No one called me. He didn't get put in jail. Sure seemed to enjoy it too. Bad Dad. Sit.


----------



## smoes

GUNS! Thanks for bringing that up.. So my girlfriend (who doesnt like to be left at home) does enjoy shooting stuff so when I go shooting. Usually I let her out of the car to shoot with me and my friends. Dont freak out; i still keep her on a leash with one of those easy-leaders attached she is just allowed out of the car for 10-15 minutes to squeeze off a few .22 rounds and then she goes right back in. Windows up.


----------



## JustinJam

*Snow vs. Sun*

Most owners train their dogs well, the dogs like to hang with them, and they will often treat their car as a den so they have their own personal space. Agreed that people should be aware of both the cold and the sun at the ski areas and prep their car appropriately.

During summer on the river is a different story. Temps inside a car can quickly raise to a lethal level. 

A friend of mine worked security at the Oregon Country Fair one summer, his main job was going around and breaking windows of cars to save dogs lives. It amazes me how many idiots are out there believing their dogs are fine in the car on a 90 degree day with the windows up.....I always wanted that job.


----------



## Robin

Fry said:


> You will see my dog in my car. Leave him and me alone.


Agreed. One day we went kayaking and like our typical routine we let our dogs out to swim in the river at the put-in, then the dogs hop into the back of the truck and they're shuttled to the take-out and the truck is parked in the shade with the side windows open, in the evening. We are also in a canyon down by the river folks- it doesn't get hot. When we arrive after boating, we find the back of the topper opened and a bunch of sticks jammed in there and a nasty note about how we are terrible dog owners for leaving our dogs in the back of the truck.

I ask you this, what if our dogs would have jumped out through the sticks and ran into the road and been hit by a car/truck/semi? Don't be a self righteous jerk!


----------



## Riparian

*WHY* is that apostrophe in *you'r*?


----------



## montuckyhuck

Smoes, my dog is not as well trained as your gf. That's just kinda weird.


----------



## raymo

I think this is why my uncle owned a three legged hog as a pet. It would do everything a dog would do, tricks,fetch, it was house broken and it loved to ride in cars. He would take it shopping and leave it in the car and no one ever complained, even if it was hot or cold out side. But he was very careful not to be away to long. One day I asked him why his hog only had three legs and he said a hog that good, you hate to eat all at one time. Yes, it is a joke but it has merit.


----------



## raymo

raymo said:


> I think this is why my uncle owned a three legged hog as a pet. It would do everything a dog would do, tricks,fetch, it was house broken and it loved to ride in cars. He would take it shopping and leave it in the car and no one ever complained, even if it was hot or cold out side. But he was very careful not to be away to long. One day I asked him why his hog only had three legs and he said a hog that good, you hate to eat all at one time. Yes, it is a joke but it has merit.


I forgot the hogs name was porkchop.


----------



## lmyers

Robin said:


> We are also in a canyon down by the river folks- it doesn't get hot.


It gets hot in the Poudre Canyon too in the middle of summer, especially inside a vehicle.


----------



## Toni

Riparian said:


> *WHY* is that apostrophe in *you'r*?


I so love the entertainment I can find here when I need a laugh!


----------



## BrownTrout

*Dog owners*

I think it all depends on the weather. Dog owners, if taking their dog everywhere should sit in the car for a bit while checking on their dog. If you need to roll down the window because you are too hot, well then your dog should not be in there. Think about it, fur and no sweat glands adds up to a hot dog. I also think it's funny that people write things to the effect of saying my dog loves it. Your dog loves being fed it does not have human emotions, it's called personification, but I am glad that you and your pet have developed such a bond. Back to the hot dog thing, just use your head.


----------



## carvedog

BrownTrout said:


> I think it all depends on the weather. Dog owners, if taking their dog everywhere should sit in the car for a bit while checking on their dog. If you need to roll down the window because you are too hot, well then your dog should not be in there. Think about it, fur and no sweat glands adds up to a hot dog. I also think it's funny that people write things to the effect of saying my dog loves it. Your dog loves being fed it does not have human emotions, it's called personification, but I am glad that you and your pet have developed such a bond. Back to the hot dog thing, just use your head.


Could also be anthropomorphization. But that's not what it is. So you are saying dogs don't do happy? Or sad? Or guilt? 

BROWN TROUT DOESN'T KNOW SHIT. Just making sure everyone hears because you obviously don't know squat about dogs. Maybe they don't know "love" in the sense that we do. But dogs definitely 'love' to do things. 
They dislike things. They have bonds and attachments that we don't understand. "They" also say dogs don't remember things beyond a couple of months. Bullsquat. I had a buddy dog that moved away and I hadn't seen him in a couple of years. When he came back for a visit saw me he totally flipped out in a good way. His owner said he hadn't done that ever that she could remember. 

Now if you are talking about trout, they are as simple as chickens in a way. Hungry, bug, swim, let's screw this fisherman up by spitting his fly at him. That's about it.

You are right about rolling down the windows and testing by sitting inside..


----------



## mr. compassionate

Riparian said:


> *WHY* is that apostrophe in *you'r*?


 

The Troll is back...where have you been Rip. In jail for pedophilia or necrophilism?


----------



## BrownTrout

*Personification*

Dipshit with the most....
You are right, dogs have emotions and actually there are dog psychiatrist out there that you can take your dog to so it can deal with all the mixed emotions it must have. I actually am a dog psychiatrist, my fee is 250 for the first hour session with your dog and 200 every hour after that. I guarantee that your dog will leave my office living a happier more full life. Does your dog do a spin jump when it sees you? Mine does and that means he is very happy, the funny thing is though, when my dog eats another dogs shit he acts the same way. People of course your dog is going to show signs of being pleased going with you wherever you go, I would be happy if the person in charge of feeding me took me along too, that means I am getting fed. Dipshit, that public education system in Idaho must be lacking, you know with all the skinheads you have in your state and all, so I am not surprised to hear you say that dogs have emotions that could be quantified by humans. Have you ever heard of Pavlov? Did the dog salivate cause it was hungry or because it heard the bell? I always get it confused. Also, who are the "they" you keep bringing up to validate your idiotic points.
I am not against taking your dogs with you wherever you go, I am against people leaving their dog in distress because it is too hot in the car while they go skiing or boating, both of which cool the participant down, while Fido bakes. Why not just tie them to a tree if it's too hot WITH some water?


----------



## lhowemt

Toni said:


> I so love the entertainment I can find here when I need a laugh!


I was waitin' to see whod' call that out. Rip never lets' us dow'n.


----------



## Theophilus

Maybe these dogs are suffering from Stockholm Syndrome.


----------



## Riparian

mr. compassionate said:


> The Troll is back...where have you been Rip. In jail for pedophilia or necrophilism?


Hi, Benny! I've missed you so much! How are things in Conifer?

Been making any subprime loans lately? Silly question. I guess that scam you were involved in has been effectively shut down by better-late-than-never regulations. 

So, how much do you have to drink at night to get to sleep?


----------



## LeftOfCenter

BrownTrout said:


> I also think it's funny that people write things to the effect of saying my dog loves it. Your dog loves being fed it does not have human emotions, it's called _personification_, but I am glad that you and your pet have developed such a bond. Back to the hot dog thing, just use your head.


Heh. Anthropomorphism. Personification only relates to inanimate objects. Sorry! I know, I know- not a grammatically perfect forum.


----------



## badswimmer

Dogs like cars. Dogs like to go ski. Don't fall down in the snow, they like to pee on citiots who can't ride. They like living out of my truck too. If they were cooped up all of their lives in your "Big House, little yard" I don't doubt that they would find a way to escape or commit suicide. You have built a prison out of your hopes and dreams, buddy pass, I-70 left lane and office job, a prison much more effective than any institution. Keep your rose scented ass away from me and my truck, my dogs might take you out and piss on your clean shaven face. Stay in the city, its a safe place, it loves your soulless companionship.


----------



## Fry

Wow badswimmer. You go.


----------



## carvedog

BrownTrout said:


> Dipshit with the most....
> You are right, dogs have emotions and actually there are dog psychiatrist out there that you ...blah, blah..... I actually am a dog psychiatrist, my fee is 250.....blah, blah, blah....... that public education system in Idaho must be lacking, you know with all the skinheads you have in your state and all, so I am not surprised.......blah, blah...


Hey Trollholio - not going to bite. Sorry that your life is so shallow that you can't see the spirit in your animal buddies. Your loss. 

In lieu of making a persuasive argument it is always good to attack with assumptions, innuendo and malice. Skinheads? Really? Well done. Are you in politics?? You should try, you'll fit right in with the shit slinging hordes. 

Not educated in Idaho. Not part of a traditional public education. Don't care what you think. But thanks for playing. Now you can crawl back under your rock. Or is it under a bridge?


----------



## lhowemt

carvedog said:


> Hey Trollholio - not going to bite. Sorry that your life is so shallow that you can't see the spirit in your animal buddies. Your loss.
> 
> In lieu of making a persuasive argument it is always good to attack with assumptions, innuendo and malice. Skinheads? Really? Well done. Are you in politics?? You should try, you'll fit right in with the shit slinging hordes.
> 
> Not educated in Idaho. Not part of a traditional public education. Don't care what you think. But thanks for playing. Now you can crawl back under your rock. Or is it under a bridge?


Claiming that a dog has no emotions (or most other animals) is just plain human-centrism (I hope this isn't really a word and that I made it up because I'm such a smart human and have so many human-only emotions about such skill). Slowly but surely animal experts are debunking these stupid claims. Emotions are one of the most basic brain functions, which developed long before logic. Never seen a dog scared of something that hurt it before? Still think they have no ability to reason or feel? Hell, they're now proving that animals think abstractly, just like humans. We are not so special, just more brutal.


----------



## Fry

My dog loves me. He has a soul. I feel sorry for anyone who has not experienced the love of a dog.


----------



## RiverCowboy

Yeah, my dog loves me too. And she loves to bite people that reach in my truck, because I left the windows down so she wouldn't overhead. Who needs to fix the locks on their truck when they have an insanely loyal cattle dog?

I do have to say how very much I have enjoyed this discussion and the one about GoPros. Damn, do we all need to get back on the river or what?


----------



## Fry

Yes let's get back on the river! Yampa May 30 baby!


----------



## scooby450

RiverCowboy said:


> Yeah, my dog loves me too. And she loves to bite people that reach in my truck, because I left the windows down so she wouldn't overhead. Who needs to fix the locks on their truck when they have an insanely loyal cattle dog?
> 
> I do have to say how very much I have enjoyed this discussion and the one about GoPros. Damn, do we all need to get back on the river or what?


I leave my dog in the car with the windows down so he can bite other people too. Recently, to add to my enjoyment, I have been mounting my GoPro on him so I can relive the event later after a day of shreddin'


----------



## RiverCowboy

scooby450 said:


> I leave my dog in the car with the windows down so he can bite other people too. Recently, to add to my enjoyment, I have been mounting my GoPro on him so I can relive the event later after a day of shreddin'


Now you're talkin'. At least we know how to keep our dogs happy and now we can have entertainment for ourselves too.


----------



## tj braunschweig

really lighten up a bit here folks, this is a river forum and you bitch about people bringing their dogs to the mountain. isn't that the reason they are here. for us as humans to enjoy. i am so sicK of boulderites and the like, smoking dope and bitching about stupid bullshit. and the rest of us acting like we care. My dog loves going where i go. and she may or may not have feelings. I DON'T CARE.


----------



## chepora

Most dogs do fine if responsible owners leave them in the car...however parking at the beach make some of those dogs go nuts inside the vehicles...they have to watch the other dogs run around all day. I'm sure that's stressful for them. I think the most impt thing is to know your dogs personality and go from there. This past summer 2 beautiful goldens died in a parked car at Keystone, windows rolled up too far and they overheated on a 70 deg day. As long as you are being considerate of the dogs needs and welfare, temp, food, water etc, I would think most dogs would enjoy hanging in the car.


----------



## FLOWTORCH

tj braunschweig said:


> really lighten up a bit here folks, this is a river forum and you bitch about people bringing their dogs to the mountain. isn't that the reason they are here. for us as humans to enjoy. i am so sicK of boulderites and the like, smoking dope and bitching about stupid bullshit. and the rest of us acting like we care. My dog loves going where i go. and she may or may not have feelings. I DON'T CARE.


Quoted for hilarity.

I still haven't seen Canada's question answered? And 25K+ a day!? No way. Can I touch you?

Browntrout, you're wrong about animal emotions.

Cdog, funny story about animal memory.. I went home with my snow and water-_LOVING_ 95lb lab to my folks house at xmas a few years ago. It had been probably at least 6 months since he'd last been there with us. Soon as we got in the house he ran through straight to the indoor pool where he took a giant leap into it...empty of any water. They've since turned it into a garage. Poor boy still goes there expecting a pool. Memory, yes. All the smarts in the world, no.


----------



## mr. compassionate

Riparian said:


> Hi, Benny! I've missed you so much! How are things in Conifer?
> 
> Been making any subprime loans lately? Silly question. I guess that scam you were involved in has been effectively shut down by better-late-than-never regulations.
> 
> So, how much do you have to drink at night to get to sleep?


I figured it out! How are you Simon?


----------



## glenn

FLOWTORCH said:


> Cdog, funny story about animal memory.. I went home with my snow and water-_LOVING_ 95lb lab to my folks house at xmas a few years ago. It had been probably at least 6 months since he'd last been there with us. Soon as we got in the house he ran through straight to the indoor pool where he took a giant leap into it...empty of any water. They've since turned it into a garage. Poor boy still goes there expecting a pool. Memory, yes. All the smarts in the world, no.


Similar story, my parents had a boston terrier when I was young. We show up at grandma's house after several years away, and the dog remembers the way through the garage to get into the house and say hello to everyone. Between the garage and the living room there were 2 doors. One to get into the mud room then a 90 degree blind turn and then one to get into the family room. The first was open. The second was not. The dog sprinted full speed around the turn and head first into the second door and knocked herself out for a few seconds. Regained conscience then stumbled around like a drunk on four legs for a couple of minutes, still wagging her stubby little tail and saying hello to the family she hadn't seen in so long.


----------



## Riparian

mr. compassionate said:


> I figured it out! How are you Simon?


Nope, you figured out nothin'... which makes you incredibly consistent.


----------



## mr. compassionate

Riparian said:


> Nope, you figured out nothin'... which makes you incredibly consistent.


I guess so-wink.


----------



## BrownTrout

River Rats.....,
Does the dog who lives with a cigarette smoker like to smoke? Imagine little Fifi sitting on their owners lounge chair while their owner puffs away..... Will that owner tell you that Fifi likes to smoke too? Or people who smoke lots of weed will tell you that their dog is a little Rasta, as if they were lucky enough to be paired with a dog with the personality of rasta dog. Dude, my dog likes Bob Marley.....
People that say their dog loves me I challenge to stop feeding your dog and let someone else feed the dog, watch where the dog's loyalties will drift. Dogs were once a wild animal that people have domesticated. Another example.... A raccoon, a wild animal, keeps getting in your trash. Why don't you go out and explain to the raccoon, maybe you could shed a tear or something so it will be able to realize that when they throw trash everywhere it makes you sad. See if the raccoon comes back, I mean if animals have emotions and understand emotions then why can't we make emotional pleas to them to do something or not do something, they just must be very stubborn. Or what about the dog deaths at Keystone in the car mentioned by a poster. I bet those dogs were a happy pair, smiling, sipping beers, high fiveing, you know, the things happy dogs do.... They must have drank all the beers, because when the owners came back they were not partying, they were dead. I can just hear the owners now "Our dogs love to go skiing with us, we just wish they would have communicated with us, you know, with a frown or something to let us know they did not want to die in the car."
TAKE YOUR DOG TO THE RIVER, JUST DON'T BE UPSET WHEN SOMEONE BREAKS YOUR WINDOW ON A HOT DAY. They might interpret your dog's emotions as saying "let me out!" Lastly, dogs having a sprit and having emotions are two different things. 
Dipshit with the most,
There are skinheads in Idaho and your state has problems with racism. I was connecting the two to your comment. You chose to attack me (i.e. Browntrout is full of shit) without doing any research on the matter. It didn't surprise me that you chose to use such harsh words right off the bat, your surrounded by ignorant people, and you, it seems didn't fall far from the tree.


----------



## dograft83

Brown Trout is full of shit!!! That is not an attack just a fact. Dogs do know how to love, be happy and fear things. A dog learns how to have these feeling by its owner (or its pet) just like a child does. I know my dog loves me and my friends. He is happy when he gets to go on a run or swim. I know he hates baths (water out of a hose), the vets office, and people that are closed minded and think they know everything. Where are your facts that you clam that you have on that dogs have no feelings other than who feeds them. 
It must be sad to not be loved. But I will be more than happy to give you a hug and feed you so you can feel the love that me and my dog have for each other


----------



## ~Bank

*Browntrout's statements make him a dumbass!*

Browntrout, you might be more worthless than a dog...get lost!

Raccoons have love...

All animals have a bond with their mother... It's motherly love...

Don't be a fool; you're an animal also.


----------



## lhowemt

No shit a dog would leave if you quit feeding it, and move on to someone that would feed it. Just like if my husband lost his job and could no longer support me and my boating habit. Jus' kiddin'


----------



## scooby450

lhowemt said:


> No shit a dog would leave if you quit feeding it, and move on to someone that would feed it. Just like if my husband lost his job and could no longer support me and my boating habit. Jus' kiddin'


Can't....help...it.....does that make you a bitch?JK


----------



## BrownTrout

I'll start over with my point...
People get confused with their dog's so called emotions which leads to people making stupid selfish decisions regarding their pets. I.E. killing their dog in the car. That's all. Oh and I will break into your car if you leave your dog in there on a hot day and I happen to stop by, hope it's a nice new subaru that most of you trustafarians drive. So you can all can kayak, ski or whatever and do so with a stress free mind, knowing there are people out there who actually do care about pets and do not make selfish choices when it comes to them and will break into a car to save one. and.... and.... and....
Bank and dog raft, you guys are both mean people, but I still like you and don't tell you to get lost, or that you're full of shit, you hurt my feelings, or wait, are they feelings or complex chemical reactions going on in my body? I get so confused.... am I happy or is the serotonin pumping?
Have a nice day.

For you science people out there, you can read the following and find more info on what you consider emotions in your dog, which might very well be emotions, but not in the sense you think it is.

One should never mix their own emotions in with a scientific study. Humans would love to believe their little balls of fur are human, however they are not and never will be. It is studies like this one which can be very damaging when owners confuse dominance with emotion. Yes the other dogs had a reaction when another dog got the food, when the new baby arrived or when they were ignored, but the "WHY" is the question.

While dogs *do possess emotions*, they are not as complex as human's. Dogs do however feel the emotions coming from humans. They feel them as an energy radiating from our bodies. The dog knows if you are sad, nervous, stressed, happy, calm, strong minded, confident, passive, anxious, hyper, or meek etc.. *However what we all need to understand is, a dog does not read negative energy coming from humans in the true meaning of the emotions.* They simply read it as a weakness and they react accordingly. It is a natural instinct for a dog to have an order in their pack. When we humans live with dogs, we become their pack. The entire pack cooperates under a single leader. Lines are clearly defined and rules are set. Because a dog communicates his displeasure with growling and eventually biting, all other humans MUST be higher up in the order than the dog. The humans must be the ones making the decisions, not the dogs. That is the only way your relationship with your dog can be a complete success.

More can be found at Dogs and Human Emotions

Now onto another debatable topic....
Do you all think that Cataract Canyon should hold a lottery for the permits? Or go about the current way where all permits are first come first served. There has been word from the Canyonlands ranger district that they would like to make the Cat a lottery permit system.
I say keep the Cat easy.....


----------



## ~Bank

Cool, you should have tried that approach first, then we wouldn't think you are dumb and full of shit...I work hard for my windows please don't break them...I can't afford insurance or new windows. I spent all my hard earned money on kayaking and skiing...I haven't met a trust-funded kayaker. They have found more expensive ways to spend time and money...like skydiving, shopping, sailing, and hot air balloon rides.


----------



## glenn

Except the dominance argument doesn't address the clear emotions dogs have such as fear and joy. Maybe they aren't manifested exactly like human fear and joy, but as mentioned before, dogs will clearly avoid things that hurt them before out of fear. Certain triggers and the dog is energetic and tail wagging at activities they clearly enjoy.


----------



## scooby450

BrownTrout said:


> I say keep the Cat easy.....


Well, that explains it: you're a 'cat' man!


----------



## BrownTrout

I'm not gonna argue with anyone any more, you guys are all mean spirited! Go ahead and and love your dog all you want but also go watch the movie "Best in Show." It gives a good example of all you neurotic dog lovers out there.


----------



## BrownTrout

*Looking at Scooby450's pic*

This picture is just another example of a long line of examples how rafters are better then kayakers. Rafters don't have to worry about leaving their dog in the car, they get to go along.


----------



## Jensjustduckie

BrownTrout said:


> I'm not gonna argue with anyone any more, you guys are all mean spirited!


Quoted for irony


----------



## lhowemt

scooby450 said:


> Can't....help...it.....does that make you a bitch?JK


Yes it would, if it were true.! Fortunately it's not. 

It may be worthy to note that the Lochsa is up to 5', and I am home ripping out our old kitchen floor. Good wifey, good wifey.

The movie, Best in show, is awesome!!! Hilarious! And a parody, on a pet-owning subculture, not the general pet owning population. Quit naming nuts!

And another thing Browntrout. Virtually all canine culture research comes from studying wolves in captivity. They have now found that unrelated wolves living together do not behave like a real pack, which is a group of mostly related animals. It's like putting humans in a concentration camp and thinking you're observing family dynamics. Fortunately dogs aren't wolves, so they merge a lot better with unrelated packs, including human members. The dominance theory (both it's relevance and applicability to training) is heading out the door, as researchers are finding a much more complex interaction between dogs and humans. Most of the time, Hazel is the boss in our house, but there are plenty of times when Lila takes charge. Sometimes the cats cannot be challenged, sometimes they can be chased. What we often consider dominance is usually fear-based aggression. Fortunately, most people don't read information like this (including my post) to learn anything, they are looking to have their beliefs affirmed. So I have no expectation that you will read or believe anything I have to say. If you are interested in the latest publications on canine behavior, I'd be happy to recommend some reading material. It's pretty amazing, what is so obvious once we pay attention has been in front of us for so long, yet discounted by our need to be superior.

Ah, back to ironing the floor.


----------



## BrownTrout

Ihowemt,
I'll say it one last time and try to clarify it more. People assume they know what is going through their dog's head. Do I leave fido at home because it is too hot for him to sit in the car or do I act selfishly because I like the feeling of having a companion with me? Fido likes the car so I will take him along. Ask yourself, especially in college, how many people did you know that had dogs that probably shouldn't of owned a dog but got one because they thought it was the next logical step in maturing and they liked the idea of having a companion that would be there through thick and thin? I knew plenty of these people, the sad thing though was that when they graduated or something else came up, they get rid of there dog because it just didn't fit in their life at the time. I have seen the other case as well where people are responsible owners and didn't feed the dog tasty nuggets from safeway. If you can follow me this far stick with me......
These people, the ones who own dogs for the pleasure it gives them rather than looking out for the well being of the dog as well, are probably the same people you will see with their dog in the car burning up while they enjoy their life. I was trying to point out that people will impose their feeling and emotions on a dog and think they understand the dog when as you point out it is much more complicated than that. I thank you for writing a respectful dissenting opinion. It is much nicer to debate things in an educated way. Much better than the heathen Raft, dip-shit in Idaho and all the others who go straight to comments like "full of shit," rather than research it or disagree in a respectful manner. You would think I just popped their raft with how they react, immediate and with no thought except what they themselves know to be true. I think all I wrote was something to the effect that I think it's funny when people think they know their dogs emotions, they might, but trust me your dog would rather be WITH you, not just a side bag that you carry around cause you think they would rather sit in the car than the house. If dogs have emotions similar to humans then ask yourself this, how would you feel if your mom and dad left you in the car at disneyland, coming to check on you every once in a while making sure your not too hot.


----------



## carvedog

This.......


BrownTrout said:


> Your dog loves being fed it does not have human emotions,


Plus this......


BrownTrout said:


> While dogs *do possess emotions*, they are not as complex as human's. Dogs do however feel the emotions coming from humans. They feel them as an energy radiating from our bodies.
> Now onto another debatable topic....


Some mindless crap about raccoons....


BrownTrout said:


> .... A raccoon, a wild animal, keeps getting in your trash. Why don't you go out and explain to the raccoon, maybe you could shed a tear or something so it will be able to realize that when they throw trash everywhere it makes you sad. See if the raccoon comes back, I mean if animals have emotions and understand emotions then why can't we make emotional pleas to them to do something or not do something, they just must be very stubborn.


Plus more contradictory psychobabble.......


BrownTrout said:


> I'll start over with my point...
> People get confused with their dog's so called emotions which leads to


Veiled threats. Passive aggessive, or agressive agressive?? All caps for emphasis......ooohhh.


BrownTrout said:


> TAKE YOUR DOG TO THE RIVER, JUST DON'T BE UPSET WHEN SOMEONE BREAKS YOUR WINDOW ON A HOT DAY.


Then add this......


BrownTrout said:


> Dipshit, that public education system in Idaho must be lacking, you know with all the skinheads you have in your state and all, so I am not surprised to hear you say that dogs have emotions that could be quantified by humans.


And this......


BrownTrout said:


> Dipshit with the most,
> There are skinheads in Idaho and your state has problems with racism. I was connecting the two to your comment. You chose to attack me (i.e. Browntrout is full of shit) without doing any research on the matter. It didn't surprise me that you chose to use such harsh words right off the bat, your surrounded by ignorant people, and you, it seems didn't fall far from the tree.


Means I stand by my original statement. 


carvedog said:


> BROWN TROUT DOESN'T KNOW SHIT.


I know it's hard to be wrong in public like this and all. But in the same way I would warn the rest of the crew not to follow if I saw someone going center left in Velvet at 7 feet, I warn others about you. Sorry you took it so bad. 

The funny thing is you are still trying to "win" the "debate" instead of realizing that you outed yourself. 

Good luck.


----------



## carvedog

BrownTrout said:


> your surrounded by ignorant people


You realize that your is actually a contraction of you and are right? As in you're....

Or are you being ironically, poetically funny? 
Since the most ignorant person I have "surrounded" myself with lately, looks like a genius compared to some of the pearls in this thread. 

Oh and about getting all butthurt on the internet cuz someone said you are full of shit - you have a very long row to hoe with that level of sensitivity. 
But good luck with that.


----------



## dograft83

So Brown Trout now that you have so facts let me ask you this. Where do emtions come from? Maybe the limbic system in the brain? Maybe this is the most Primitive part of the human brain but in all animals? All animals have some kind of emotions that come from the brain and the chemicals the brain makes. The human brain and body have devloped in ways that we are able to express these feelings. All mammals have feelings and emotions. Yes humans are the only ones that can truly express true love in the way that we know it. All mammals have fear, happines, saddnes and anger.


----------



## goldcamp

Holy Crap Brown Trout! How does it feel to be so completely owned. Ouch. 

To me, it is just self evident that dogs have a emotions. They like some things, they don't like other. They are excited when they see people they know and could care less about people they don't know.


----------



## ~Bank

*Browntrout knows what is acceptable and is smart?*

I did some research...Here is another thread started by Browntrout, This proves our suspicions, he's full of shit. Thanks Goldcamp for pointing out his stupidity.

Browntrout would make a good police officer!

Click here for Browntrout's thread; what-do-you-all-think-



.


----------



## BrownTrout

Ok ok ok, I am owned! What I wanna know though is where you people learned it's ok to directly, right off the bat ,call someone out with terms such as "full of shit" I can see "browntrout does not know what he is talking about" but you guys attack like it was a declaration of war. I am glad you all have a personal emotional relationship with your dogs. But don't let your emotions and your understanding of your dogs emotions lead you to leaving your dog in your car so it can overheat, is that simple enough for you? I mentioned that in my first post, depending on weather..... But you were more concerned with the attack of dogs having emotions and how bad ass your dog is or some story about how you once had a buddy dog. As for you carve dog you might think letting your dog off a leash in a parking lot at a ski area while you go ski is a funny thing ha ha ha. All I see is you wearing a badge of irresponsibility with honor. 
Dog raft, I don't disagree with you, all animals have emotions (not human emotions, but emotions.) I guess I messed up when i stated dogs don't have emotions, I should have stated dogs don't have human emotions, they have dog emotions. To round it off, I think it is a dis-service for people to place their human emotions inside a dog's head. My dogs are part of my family, so I treat them like I would a child. Looking out for what is best for them and not putting my wants and needs over their needs because they are a dog. If you wanted to get into cognitive development of a dog and a child you would know that you can't, as an adult, think the child or dog for that matter gets what you are thinking. Their brain is not developed enough for them to understand adult ideas and concepts such as emotions or the idea of right and wrong. 
I think many dog owners want their cake and want to eat it too, meaning the dog is their best friend unless something comes up then it is just a dog and they separate it from any HUMAN emotion. This all gets into religion with humans' supposed dominion over animals and transfers into one's view of the environment. Is it something you are a part of or is it there to merely serve your needs? There you will find the line, in my "owned" opinion, on how people treat their pets.


----------



## BrownTrout

Bank,
Thanks for being such a great member of the boating community, can't wait to have a beer with YOU someday. If you want to start that post on that raft guide and his pregnant wife over again, go for it. I think makin raftguide babies said it best when she posted "As a nurse, raft guide wife and mother, I have to comment. When you are pregnant, you know that will involve sacrifice. You don’t drink, smoke, eat sushi, or soft cheese. You also don’t ride roller coasters, fly in a plane the last month or go to high in altitude, because it’s dangerous either to you or the baby. You watch everyone around you do all of those things, and you hate them for it. You hate your husband most of all, but you abstain with a smile.
Why do we willing do this to ourselves? Because it’s nine months for me, and ninety years for my kid. If I’m not getting sufficient oxygen neither is my baby. It’s called an anoxic brain injury, Google it. *
I’ve cared for too many people, children and adults, who were in a vegetative state because someone else was stupid. I know in my house we will make different decisions, than this couple did. I look forward to a life time of healthy years rafting with my son. It’s worth waiting for him to be ready. Any raft guide worth his salt would agree you need to respect the river, you’ve all been it’s bitch. Don’t make your baby the rivers bitch too." 
Most of my post have been questions regarding safety on the river, like wearing a life jacket, not taking your pregnant wife rafting and "swimming" her etc. Let us continue to debate over these issues as they face the river community all the time. Possibly with debating these topics we can shed light on the importance of river safety when we enjoy our favorite activities. 
Like killing your dog in a car or swimming your pregnant wife, it all points to one thing.....responsibility.


----------



## ~Bank

Browntrout, you have no business telling others what is right and wrong. You should focus on making yourself a better person.


----------



## BrownTrout

Bank,
What is the point of law in society? I have never told people what is right or wrong. I have urged people to wear a life jacket and I have urged (while sharing my opinion on the matter) people to not take a pregnant lady rafting, who cares about the lady, she's not intelligent enough to understand,let Darwin's theory take care of her, but you at least gotta get the kid up to some class 2 before you go throwing him in some class 3 and swimming him. And the argument of focusing on oneselves works well in personal situations. It does not work well when you share a resource like a river where as a guide I do not want to see a dead body, so I am going to do everything in my power to worry about other people and their irresponsible actions on the river. it affects me.
Maybe I can lighten the situation up a little and have you watch this then come back and debate some more.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4r7wHMg5Yjg


----------



## ~Bank

Law is a system of rules usually enforced through a set of institutions. The purpose of law is to provide an objective set of rules for governing conduct and maintaining order in a society.

  The rule of law requires that people should be governed by accepted rules, rather than by the arbitrary decisions of rulers. These rules should be general and abstract, known and certain, and apply equally to all individuals.


----------



## dograft83

haha that is pretty funny.


----------



## CGM

I think that you are ALL full of shit. How you like them apples. :twisted:


----------



## Jensjustduckie

LOL, "you think the Honey Badger cares? It doesn't give a shit"

nice


----------



## dograft83

But anyways back to dogs in cars. People that leave there dogs in cars during the summer are not the smartest of people. I group them with people that leave there kids in the car in the middle of summer and the kids even end up dead. But during the winter time I dont see this as big of a deal. For one people are always close and can check on the dog more offten then when they are on the river and dont have to worry about the heat as much. So before people go all crazy and start breaking windows and doing more damage than good wait check it out from afar so you dont bother the dog. If the dog looks like it is having problems get the resort to check it out and have them deal with it. During the summer I have filled water bowls for dogs that were leashed up and have even walked them down to the river on a leash if they were out so they cool off but I will never let the dog off leash because I dont want anything to happen to it. The only reason I could see breaking a window is if it really looks like the dog is dying and the owner is no place to be found. Thank god I have never ran across a need for that because I see ok to great dog owners and never really bad ones on the river. But really people need to chill and check things out before they go all crazy and make things up in there head and feel like they know what is going on with people property


----------



## dograft83

Haha CGM I was full of shit but I have just returned form the bathroom and am about half a pound lighter now


----------



## Randaddy

BrownTrout, it's my dog and I'll do what I want with it. If it dies I'll just buy another one. If I want to buy dog after dog just to make a mess of my microwave I will. If you break my window I will kill you.


----------



## Randaddy

By the way, I signed on here to defend you but I found out you were posting in the skiers forum. You don't want to make these people mad. They're real athletes, not like these kayak pussies. Be careful!


----------



## chepora

lol the rivers really need to start running soon


----------



## cfboomas

First of all learn how to spell. It's spelled "your" not you'r, you're (that's the other way to spell it) barking up the wrong tree and need to mind your own business. Did you sit there all day and wait to see if the owner was coming back to check on the dog? Did you leave a note voicing your concern? Did you call the cops? Maybe if you're so concerned you should have taken those steps rather than voicing your opinion towards those not owning that particular dog or car. I bring my dog and x-country skiis and we go for a long trek on the way home. Follow through or mind your own business.


----------



## carvedog

BrownTrout said:


> Ok ok ok, I am owned! What I wanna know though is where you people learned it's ok to directly, right off the bat ,call someone out with terms such as "full of shit" I can see "browntrout does not know what he is talking about" but you guys attack like it was a declaration of war.


Maybe it was the dismissive and arrogant tone about how ridiculous "we" are for believing our dogs are the wonderful enlightened creatures they are most of the time. Just like humans there are just downright bad dogs sometimes, but most are not. Dogs are here from God ( not an accident ) to show us the nature of true love and devotion. And whatever else we are willing to learn. You don't have to believe that, but there are many of us that do to different levels. 
I also don't trust people who don't like dogs. 
I think dogs can see 'energy', auras, peoples intent - whatever you want to call it. That is why I have had people, when after greeting their new to me dog friend have responded that their dog 'never' acts that friendly with a new person. Not that I some pure spirit, not even close, but I love dogs and it shows. 
They - dogs that is - are more than a pavlovian response mechanism. I resented the absolute authority with which you dismissed my belief system. So I responded. Sorry you took it wrong. Just as you chose your tone, I chose mine. 



BrownTrout said:


> As for you carve dog you might think letting your dog off a leash in a parking lot at a ski area while you go ski is a funny thing ha ha ha. All I see is you wearing a badge of irresponsibility with honor.


 Let's get one thing straight, I didn't let him loose in the parking lot - that was a half mile away - it was the base lodge area of one of the oldest and most well known ski resorts in the country. And maybe I wasn't just letting him loose, but that I had decided that this particular ski area on this particular day needed a little more dog in it. The mountain seemed to agree with me. 

All in how you look at things isn't it?


----------



## badswimmer

Right on Carvedog!! No one without the love of DOG can be happy. Leashes and citiots are the problem, socialize yourself & dog, maybe at the same time. It will help you learn to make friends that aren't bound by blood to tolerate you(mommy).


----------



## adgeiser

BrownTrout said:


> I'm not gonna argue with anyone any more, you guys are all mean spirited! Go ahead and and love your dog all you want but also go watch the movie "Best in Show." It gives a good example of all you neurotic dog lovers out there.


really? mean spirited? you were called full of shit. and YOU totally went off the handle calling people ignorant, uneducated and implying racist.... but everyone else is mean spirited... now that is funny.

And yes i take my dog (who loves me  ) with me most places if i can... and like most people do it responsibly. (if it's to hot he stays home.)

Lastly... please, as you are being so self-righteous and so highly educated, please remember that humans are part of the ANIMAL KINGDOM.... not that of the gods. I'm not an animal psychologist... (disclaimer ) but i seem to recall that scientist have sequenced the genome of the chimp and found that humans are 96% similar. (oh and since you want references that was in national geographic) ....i guess all of the emotions part are in that 4%.


----------



## chepora

adgeiser said:


> Lastly... please, as you are being so self-righteous and so highly educated, please remember that humans are part of the ANIMAL KINGDOM.... not that of the gods. ...i guess all of the emotions part are in that 4%.


AWESOME!


----------

