# Yampa High Water Raft Flip



## johnnywetuber (Aug 30, 2010)

Just under 20K mid June 2011 helmet cam through Warm Springs and a flip after the confluence on the Green in Split Mountain.

johnnywetuber shares some of his own carnage.

YouTube - ‪Yampa River High Water Raft Flip 2011‬‏


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## kazak4x4 (May 25, 2009)

Nice vid man! That's a cold swim for the flippers.


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## Ranco (Jun 18, 2010)

cool vid, nice work.


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## jirwindisc (Jul 16, 2010)

Nice Video work. I've got to get one of those Go Pros as that was some great clarity. Great work under fire keeping the shades.


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## openboat (Jul 13, 2004)

Fun to watch. Thanks for sharing. We did Warm Springs at 20k this year and your shots revivied those good memories.


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## johnnywetuber (Aug 30, 2010)

Just got the GoPro for this season. It's HD so yea the quality is good.
I did run out of space but the best footage would have been the 3-4 attempts trying to flip it back over in the rapids. Our first time boater fell in as one of our attempts failed and she did fine not panicking and got back on to help get it over. The second flip we ended up floating into the takeout upside down.


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## mrburns (Oct 8, 2007)

Great video! Thanks for posting!


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## powdahound76 (Jul 20, 2006)

Nicely done. How long did it take to right the rig? Looks like an awesome trip I need to do. someday.....


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## j2%=c6 (May 19, 2010)

Glad to see you saved the glasses.


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## johnnywetuber (Aug 30, 2010)

We flipped right before a long series of waves and tried towing it to shore but the current and rapids were too much(two rafts towing). So we finally made the decision to just flip then. I took two tries with two of us then piled 4 on it and finally got it over after about a mile and a half


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## powdahound76 (Jul 20, 2006)

Damn. At least the water was deep and you werent banging into rocks. Poor bastards on Clear Creek......


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## johnnywetuber (Aug 30, 2010)

yea clear creek was meant for Kayak's. Big water no rocks just HOLES to worry about.
the shades we found at the bottom of Lake Powell one year playin around with scuba stuff. Cheap ones that had memorable value just not your everyday $10 pair from the gas station


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## ilanarama (Jun 25, 2010)

Awesome. I am oddly charmed by the half-submerged picnic tables. 

How many oars got borked this trip?


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## BCJ (Mar 3, 2008)

Great video - - your team takes the prize for blood and guts runs!


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## johnnywetuber (Aug 30, 2010)

Only lost the one oar which actually had a slight bend which gave it a week point. It didn't hit a rock or anything just the force of the hydraulics was enough.


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## johnnywetuber (Aug 30, 2010)

Only lost the one oar which actually had a slight bend which gave it a weak point. It didn't hit a rock or anything just the force of the hydraulics was enough.


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## WillYates (Aug 3, 2007)

Launch tomorrow, can't wait!!!


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## Eagle Mapper (Mar 24, 2008)

Oh Will, I forgot to tell you we gave your spot away just this morning. Sorry bro, But I will take that cooler full of food you made.


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## powrider686 (Aug 12, 2009)

Nice vid but it seems you need to work on your flipping skills. Any competent guide should be back on top of the boat in seconds, especially with all that flat water you had right after the flip. What are you going to do when you raft a river with continuous rapids and flip?


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## matt cook (Dec 15, 2009)

powrider686 said:


> Nice vid but it seems you need to work on your flipping skills. Any competent guide should be back on top of the boat in seconds, especially with all that flat water you had right after the flip. What are you going to do when you raft a river with continuous rapids and flip?


 Wow, awfully critical aren't you? First off I never saw him claim to be a guide, second, he wrote in his post that they were trying to tow it to shore to right it. Third, you cant just hop up and flip a boat loaded with that much gear, like he said it took 4 of them.


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## johnnywetuber (Aug 30, 2010)

Thanks Matt, that's what I was going to say. And yes there was some "flat water" but we were in the beginning of a stretch of rapids and you'll notice we were headed for a hole which luckily we just caught the corner. I'm not a guide and have never been on one of those trips before so I don't know what "commercial" people do. Just learning from experience. Took an even bigger swim and flip in Cataract @ 60K. Made it through the Grand without flipping. And we tried flipping it with just two and couldn't get it over. Yes this was a gear boat not an empty tourist boat.


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## asleep.at.the.oars (May 6, 2006)

Looks like the flip was in the meat of Moonshine, and at those flows it's pretty continuous for the next mile (3 or 4 minutes?) until SOB, just not as big. Hardly flat water, at any rate.


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## upshitscreek (Oct 21, 2007)

fun to watch... thanks for that.


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## powrider686 (Aug 12, 2009)

Well didn't mean to be harsh but I believe you have no business running rivers at 20-30-40k without the necessary experience to know what to do when shit hits the fan, that's how people die. Granted everyone doesn't need guide training but one should have understanding and practice of what to do in such situations. Who cares about the sunglasses when you should be worried around righting the raft and collecting your people. Ever heard of a flipline? Or better yet a double pronged one( in the shape of a "y") that allows one person to flip over a heavily loaded boat on ones own? I understand that coming into a hole with the boat flipped is not fun but if you had the necessary experience you probably could have had the boat flipped back over by the time you were upon it. Also, at that high of water, wouldn't it be prudent to have taught everyone in your group how to flip a raft back over or to at least assist with it? At those levels you need to be confident in your ability to right the boat on your own or else you are putting more than just your life in danger, your putting everyone who was "towing" your boat to shore into danger as well. If you don't mind me asking how were you attempting to flip it with two people, or four for that matter? 

@Matt Cook- Yes, I am being critical. Anyone guiding a boat down rivers at 20k should have some sort of training, be it from friends or a professional course. They also should have practiced said techniques and be proficient in using and implementing them. Also "trying to" tow it to shore doesn't cut it when your in continuous whitewater, flipping the boat back does. And third, yes you can if you know what you are doing and are implementing you plan correctly. It might be tough with one, but with two it should be no issue at all. 

If your running rivers at 20k + with no experience or idea what to do in flip, wrap, dumptruck, rescue, etc. circumstances, it looks like the theory of evolution is hard at work. Just my 2 cents.


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## jevc (May 10, 2009)

powrider686 said:


> Well didn't mean to be harsh but I believe you have no business running rivers at 20-30-40k without the necessary experience to know what to do when shit hits the fan, that's how people die. Granted everyone doesn't need guide training but one should have understanding and practice of what to do in such situations. Who cares about the sunglasses when you should be worried around righting the raft and collecting your people. Ever heard of a flipline? Or better yet a double pronged one( in the shape of a "y") that allows one person to flip over a heavily loaded boat on ones own? I understand that coming into a hole with the boat flipped is not fun but if you had the necessary experience you probably could have had the boat flipped back over by the time you were upon it. Also, at that high of water, wouldn't it be prudent to have taught everyone in your group how to flip a raft back over or to at least assist with it? At those levels you need to be confident in your ability to right the boat on your own or else you are putting more than just your life in danger, your putting everyone who was "towing" your boat to shore into danger as well. If you don't mind me asking how were you attempting to flip it with two people, or four for that matter?
> 
> @Matt Cook- Yes, I am being critical. Anyone guiding a boat down rivers at 20k should have some sort of training, be it from friends or a professional course. They also should have practiced said techniques and be proficient in using and implementing them. Also "trying to" tow it to shore doesn't cut it when your in continuous whitewater, flipping the boat back does. And third, yes you can if you know what you are doing and are implementing you plan correctly. It might be tough with one, but with two it should be no issue at all.
> 
> If your running rivers at 20k + with no experience or idea what to do in flip, wrap, dumptruck, rescue, etc. circumstances, it looks like the theory of evolution is hard at work. Just my 2 cents.



powrider
it sounds like you just graduated from guide school. congratulations.


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## raymo (Aug 10, 2008)

Nice vid.,thanks for sharing. Every big gear boat flip I have ever seen or been involved in everyone is standing around looking at it like a dog stairing at a clock, myself included. But somehow we get them turn around and back on the river.


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## matt cook (Dec 15, 2009)

powrider686 said:


> Well didn't mean to be harsh but I believe you have no business running rivers at 20-30-40k without the necessary experience to know what to do when shit hits the fan, that's how people die. Granted everyone doesn't need guide training but one should have understanding and practice of what to do in such situations. Who cares about the sunglasses when you should be worried around righting the raft and collecting your people. Ever heard of a flipline? Or better yet a double pronged one( in the shape of a "y") that allows one person to flip over a heavily loaded boat on ones own? I understand that coming into a hole with the boat flipped is not fun but if you had the necessary experience you probably could have had the boat flipped back over by the time you were upon it. Also, at that high of water, wouldn't it be prudent to have taught everyone in your group how to flip a raft back over or to at least assist with it? At those levels you need to be confident in your ability to right the boat on your own or else you are putting more than just your life in danger, your putting everyone who was "towing" your boat to shore into danger as well. If you don't mind me asking how were you attempting to flip it with two people, or four for that matter?
> 
> @Matt Cook- Yes, I am being critical. Anyone guiding a boat down rivers at 20k should have some sort of training, be it from friends or a professional course. They also should have practiced said techniques and be proficient in using and implementing them. Also "trying to" tow it to shore doesn't cut it when your in continuous whitewater, flipping the boat back does. And third, yes you can if you know what you are doing and are implementing you plan correctly. It might be tough with one, but with two it should be no issue at all.
> 
> If your running rivers at 20k + with no experience or idea what to do in flip, wrap, dumptruck, rescue, etc. circumstances, it looks like the theory of evolution is hard at work. Just my 2 cents.



WOW, hypercritical much? But I thought it was "flatwater"? It is also amazing that you can estimate the amount of weight in the boat and how easy it would be to flip. Also, I don't recall watching them right it in the video, so we don't know how they did it or what kind of flip line they used. Have you ever righted a 1500 lb raft by yourself? There are some youtube videos of it, check them out, most of them take more than 2 people. Nobody got hurt and nobody died, maybe this experience will help them learn to do it more quickly and efficiently in the future. See, you can be critical (and even helpful) without attacking people. Johnny I'm glad you are all ok after making what I am sure is the single biggest mistake in your life (), and nice video, but work on your superman guide skills will ya, we don't want to give powder a heart attack from screaming at your poor ferry angle on the next video.


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## melissawd (Apr 20, 2005)

I think flipping gear boats back over is a bit tougher than Powrider thinks. I've done it many times, mine and others. It's hard to flip a gear boat in mid current- for sure. The most important thing is for you to get on top of the upside down boat - not just clinging to the side. Cold water saps you fast, and you are more heads up once on top, and from there you can deal. (I have tought guide school many years back) You can ride along relatively safely and an upside down raft is even more stable than a right side up one! LOL. But, again, great save on the shades. Looks like a super fun level. I'm jelous. Great vid. Thanks.


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## johnnywetuber (Aug 30, 2010)

Hey Pow. You're correct in every sense of the word. I agree with what you're saying. Preparedness is the name of the game. The sunglasses save was just a joke. Did you see the 15-20 swales we were in. I was assessing the situation trying to find what was coming up next. My concern was more for my rider. Our flip lines were not attached at the time(my mistake) but yes we did use them to right it. And two of us made two attempts and then had to get 2 more to help. We probably could have gotten it with the two of us but it was a heavy boat. 
As far as my right to be out there and preparedness I've been riding the rivers since before your mom met your dad. I've had emergency preparedness training through firefighter school, Eagle Scout, Scoutmaster and did you not hear Cat @ 60,000 (4 cat trips) the Grand, Salmon, Snake, Deso, San Juan, Rio Grande, Gates of Ladore, 50 Westies and only 4 career flips. 2 of them here. I swam laps at the pool for weeks and got up to a mile swim to prepare for the trip.
Our trip leader had his safety talk before we left as we always do.
Yes I should have been up on the boat sooner but you shouldn't talk to your elders that way.


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## matt cook (Dec 15, 2009)

DAAAAAAAAAAMMMMMMNN! Digital bitchslap!


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## powrider686 (Aug 12, 2009)

Matt you must not know how to read if you believe that was a digital "bitchslap". If anything that was johnny saying things could have been done differently and maybe the outcome would have changed. He also said he didn''t have a flipline on( at 20K?) and i'm not really sure that eagle scouts counts as river training. i'm actually pretty sure that doesn't cover it because I was an eagle scout at one time and nothing we ever did constituted any kind of river safety training, maybe first aid but that's about it. And johnny, how were you assessing downstream when your upstream of the boat and can't see past it? Somethings not jiving here. Also just because you have run at lot of streches of river doesn't mean you know what you are doing or doing it correctly. Think about taking a guide class for shits and giggles and see what you can learn, might make your river trips that much better. And my parents met before you started rafting, f.y.i. And if my elders were doing things correctly I wouldnt have to talk to them this way

Anyways it was a helpful thread to a few people(johnny) until the mountain hick from carolina joined in with nothing constructive to say. So next time you say digital bitchslap make sure you read the post and actually comment on it. 

Matt- Have you ever flipped a gear boat or just watched youtube videos of it? Maybe before you judge difficulty and try to blast others you should do it yourself so you know what your talking about. I have flipped heavy gear boats plenty of times and while it's not fun it's perfectly doable especially if you have practiced your technique and know what your doing. Nice try, but don't try to talk about things you don't know about. 

Jvec- sounds like your a douche and you should go to guide school and learn river safety. I went 7 years ago and have been competently rafting rivers since. Thanks though. 

Melissa- At least someone on here recognizes what to do in the event of a flip. I have flipped over heavily loaded gear boats and it is not fun but it is doable. Also getting out of the water should be your first concern as you said. It's always easier when you can see down river and your not suffering from hypothermia.


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## jevc (May 10, 2009)

*powrider*

you bring up a lot of good points. and I think I would like to run a river with you. I am sure we could all learn a thing or two from that experience. I have never been to a guide school and I am not an expert at righting rafts or running big water. But I have been on big water a couple of times and I have had a hand in righting rafts from 14 ft paddle boats to 36 s-rigs (it took 30 people and two other moter rigs to right that s rig). Should have had the flip lines out I guess. I dont know. does CAT at 105,000, WW at 50,000, Yampa at 34,000, the Grand at 60,000 or the middle fork at 7.8 feet count as big water? maybe, maybe not. It seemed big to me, but we douch bags look at things in a different light. I should probably get enrolled in one of those schools soon before I hurt someone. Have you seen the picture of the 27 footer that endowed in warm springs in 1984? If only I had some flip lines out I probably could have self righted it before we got too far down river. Have you ever run a gear boat or is your experience limited to paddleboats? Thats what I thought. 
ps. great video. I enjoyed it. nice save on the sunglasses. and great lines in warm springs. good to see you run some meat and then make a move. sweet!


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## blutzski (Mar 31, 2004)

anyway..... nicely edited vid. Thanks for sharing.


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## chop217 (Jun 11, 2011)

looks fun. 

water after the flip looked pretty mellow don't see what all the fuss is about... didn't seem super urgent to re-flip.


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## Beardance42 (May 12, 2008)

Great video, thanks for sharing that. Looks like that swell just rose up out of nowhere and broke at exacly the wrong time. 

No criticism on recovery from me. Bigger stuff than I've done.


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## matt cook (Dec 15, 2009)

Geez pow-pow, just f-in with you a little because you came across as kind of an asshole. I called it a digital bitch-slap because Johnny sounds like he's had more experience than any "guide School" could ever hope to provide. It's funny that you come on here talking shit and telling people how they should react, then get all upset about people giving you a little criticism in return. Take a chill pill, we boat to have fun not so we can berate others to boost our egos. I have flipped some oar rigs, not loaded to the brim though. My point was that you don't know what it weighs, where its center of gravity is or how hard it would be to flip just from watching a video. Also, I would say the amount of water Johnny has successfully run DOES mean he knows what he is doing and is doing it correctly, its called learning. I would trust anyone with years of experience over some cocky young kid who thinks they're ready for any thing because they graduated from guide school. And whats up with this mountain hick shit? Not that I take it as an insult, but the fact that you are throwing out regional slurs shows your lack of maturity and intellect. I probably have a better education than you, and when did living on a mountain begin to derive a derogatory connotation? Don't you live in Colorado? Want some advice? Next time you try to give some of your own, try not to sound like such a dick. remember, CONSTRUCTIVE criticism.


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## ch678 (May 6, 2007)

Fun to watch. The last time I saw water that high up in the cottonwoods at dearlodge was in the early 90's I think it was. Your vid brought back memories of my Rock Springs buddies. Fun times.


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## ch678 (May 6, 2007)

First time rafter? Through warm springs, no less? She had a impressive run thru it.


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## johnnywetuber (Aug 30, 2010)

I'm glad you all liked the video. It was intended to show the big water. Love the Critics!
We all have our own paths. I always say "you don't go to the dance to not dance". The big water is dangerous. Everyone should have respect for it. I do. No buddy got hurt. We were successful at flipping the boat back over and I'm glad everybody shared their opinions of what should be done. That's one of the benefits of Mountain Buzz is to learn and educate through sharing.
Peace and safe floats to all!
Pow! Love ya man! No hard feelings. I did have river training in Boy Scouts @ age 11 and learned how to right a swamped canoe. It was called "canoeing" merit badge.
here's a link for reference.
Canoeing - MeritBadgeDotOrg
The water wasn't that cold otherwise I sure as heck would have been out sooner. I've also been told not to be in front of a heavy boat in the water as you don't want to be pinned or run over by your boat.
As far as educating myself more. Someday I wouldn't mind taking the swiftwater rescue course. In my opinion everybody could always use more training. For me I do have the right, I do have the skills, I have had the education and the "on the river experience". I'm not perfect and nobody is. And there is no better educator than experiencing first hand what to do in a situation. Remain calm!


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## dport (May 10, 2006)

ch678 said:


> Fun to watch. The last time I saw water that high up in the cottonwoods at dearlodge was in the early 90's I think it was. Your vid brought back memories of my Rock Springs buddies. Fun times.


Rock Springs buddies! I have a few of them, they have been taking me down rivers for the last 5 or 6 years now, would not have the trips if it were not for them folks. Wonder if they are some of the same river ratts...


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