# Middle Fork Salmon campgrounds: book day of departure?



## Avatard (Apr 29, 2011)

I've never arrived at Boundary in time for the pow wow. I've always been happy with the campsites on the trip. Yeah, every so often you wind up with one not up to the usual standards, but there are few that you will say "boy did we get screwed"

I've stayed overnight at boundary every time, once arriving at 1am. It's about 1:15 from Stanley I think, and if you are driving from boise you can be at boundary about the same time you roll into Stanley.

You should reconsider. You can be rigging and launching your boats while someone is organizing breakfast. If you are launching in August, especially this season, you will want every minute you can be on the water

With a 10 person group in August you will have your choice in sites on the first night. I would recommend you stay at the first hot springs (cant remember the name) but its after Velvet. Unless of course you can score Sunflower


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## Wadeinthewater (Mar 22, 2009)

penguin said:


> 1. Do you think that the campsites would be badly picked over if we wait until the launch day to make our choices, since we'd be choosing from leftovers?
> 
> 2. As our party size is less than 10 people, do you think that nice campgrounds would be left over for us since most parties are greater than 10 people? The list above implies that many sites are for 10 or less people.


I wouldn't get too twisted up about getting to Boundary Creek the day before just to reserve campsites. You will still choose campsites on your launch day. It probably will not make much of a difference because you are a small group and the USFS will not let you reserve the larger sites even if you are there the day before.

We often camp on the South Fork Payette, have a nice breakfast at the Sourdough Lodge (8406 Highway 21, mile post 84, 11 miles East of Lowman), drive to Boundary Creek and launch that day.


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## idahoriverguide (Mar 30, 2011)

OK I'll throw in my 2 cents here.

If you can't make it for the 3:30 pick, I'd tell you you'll miss some great camps, but the point was spot on before me- you're a small group and the FS won't let you take big camps in that meeting anyways. Side note: if you're nice and the camp is open that morning they'll let you score it as all the other groups passed it up.

The hot spring is Trail Flat, it's after Big Bend and Velvet. Warning here, great hot spring, it's a bitch of a pack up that hill and with low water you'll be packing up 100 yards of rocks before you even get to head up the hill. Still it's a good camp and after a long day on the top end you'll welcome it. 

Sunflower- it was mentioned, I LOVE this camp- in JUNE!! By August it's over run with ivy, so be careful. It's got the best kitchen on the river, period. The view while you cook can't be matched. It's between the 2 eddies up on like rock over look. Problem is with the ivy and 9 people, you'll be sleeping in the trail just to have room. 

Getting there the day of isn't an issue, you'll be good. Going to Stanley is out of your way and I would almost advise against it. Stay in Boise or camp in Lowman, tons of sights on the way, if you're a hot spring lover head to pine flat, it's on the way, look it up.

As for water- it'll be gone so get on the water ASAP, give yourself 2+ days on the top, you'll thank me later. Plus the fishing is EPIC on the top, this year it should be killer if it doesn't get too hot. If you're not on the water by Noon I would not go more than 12 miles...


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## montana_field (Mar 28, 2011)

How about Sheepeater Hotsprings? If you can't get it camp at Scout and short hike to Sheepeater. Then, when at Sunflower, camp across at Lost Oak and ferry over to Sunflower


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## okieboater (Oct 19, 2004)

*For what it is worth*

If memory correct, last years trip down the middle fork was my 6th trip.

I am sure I have not hit all the camps but think I have hit most of them.

Including a couple located on the last night's section that I had been told were just awful. Turns out the landings are a tad more difficult than others but not that bad.

Not a bad camp ever.

Enjoy your trip. This is a classic river trip and you are lucky to get a permit no matter where you camp.


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## OregonianRG (Jun 14, 2010)

Why drive to Stanley and then backtrack to Boundary? We leave Portland at about 10 am, drive up through Banks, party in Crouch, and stay at the Sourdough Lodge ( has nice hot tub) in Lowman. 2 hours from there to the put in and you can gas up and have a nice breakfast in their restaurant. Don't drive up 21 (way too many curves), go up 55.

I think it is much less stressful to get there a day early and pick your campsites and get your boats rigged the day before launch. The people who get there at the 3:30 time should have campsite priority over the groups who show up the day of launch. You could ask to share some large campsites with other groups or you can challenge (coin flip) for a campsite if you really want it, but the people who picked their campsites the day earlier really do have first dibs. I think that is bad river karma to come in late and ask for a coin flip. Nicole (the head ranger at the put in) said she has only seen 5 coin flip challenges in her 3 years of working at Boundary.


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## Avatard (Apr 29, 2011)

You may be able to phone the ranger, give them an idea about what larger camps you may want to split with a smaller group, and what day or days you might reach that point.. Maybe during the powwow another small group requests those larger sites, maybe they would be willing to split with you in your absence.

They've always been accomodating to our small groups, and we've only had two bad sites in three trips (bees and flys)


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## Avatard (Apr 29, 2011)

You can search online there is a site with pictures of the river campsites


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## mordeeb (Sep 27, 2012)

penguin said:


> Hey all,
> 
> I'm a permit holder for an early August launch at Boundary Creek on the Middle Fork Salmon. From our location in California, this trip can be very long when you combine the drive on both sides, so we're driving in one day from Truckee to Stanley, and then going to Boundary the morning of our launch. There are nine people in our party.
> 
> ...


I can't get enough of the MF, just wrapped up a May 29 float. Totally awesome outside of a rude encounter with a total jerk taking out at Cache Creek behind us. In thirty years of running rivers it was my first encounter with such behavior. What topped it all was we made a huge effort to rescue his boat at Otter Bar and barely got it back to camp. Left it untied on shore. He was running the river solo, this guy, his wife, and 3 dogs walked down river from Cradle to Otter hoping they would find it. Totally insane! I mean what would this guy have done had we just let it float on by? I would suggest if at all possible you arrive at the South Payette River at least 2 days prior to launch. Arriving at Boundary at 10 o'clock the night before or the day of launch is crazy. Camp at Pine Flats 5 miles east of Lowman, great hot springs. Arrive at Boundary the day prior to launch, grab a breakfast at the Sourdough Lodge 10 mile west of Lowman. You can reserve a campsite at Pine Flats or Boundary ahead of time at Recreation.gov. You will have very low water this year in August, I mean bad. Keep an eye on the conditions, you may have to fly into Indian Creek if you have big boats.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

mordeeb said:


> Totally awesome outside of a rude encounter with a total jerk taking out at Cache Creek behind us. In thirty years of running rivers it was my first encounter with such behavior.


What did he do at the takeout?


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## mordeeb (Sep 27, 2012)

Told us to get out of the way so he could get his rig down the ramp (we arrived 15 minutes ahead of him). We basically gave him a continuous tongue lashing at that point (explicitives deleated) and helped him get his gear loaded.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

mordeeb said:


> We basically gave him a continuous tongue lashing at that point


Sucks to be put in that situation on a river trip...but bottling it up to complain on the internet later wasn't going to do you--or him--any good. Good for you for taking the opportunity to let him know his river karma bank account was seriously in the red. 

I like the fact that you helped him load at the same time. :lol:


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## flythetons (May 30, 2009)

> He was running the river solo, this guy, his wife, and 3 dogs walked down river from Cradle to Otter hoping they would find it/QUOTE]
> 
> Was this the guy with the red aire and the everything bag of death? Did he flip or just loose his boat from cradle eddy?


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## tmacc (Sep 6, 2009)

Yeah, there are jerks on every river. Last year on the MF, some guy punched a hole in the floor of his borrowed Avon on the first day. I gave him my roll of Tear Aid and never got a thank you or any offer of compensation. Even a beer. Then he sat across the river when we were at camp catching some sun checking out my GF with binoculars. Which really wasn't a big deal to us, but he felt he had to comment to her at Cache Bar. Thankfully 90% of the folks we meet on the river are fantastic.

To the OP, we sat in on the 3:30 campsite meeting and really didn't get any of our first or second choices, so I wouldn't sweat it. We still had great camps for our small group. I don't think I'd stay at Cliffside again at 4.6' though. I think another small group scored Sheepeater on the morning of our launch when none of the larger groups took it. This was in early June, so the commercials may not have been launching that day.


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## mordeeb (Sep 27, 2012)

mordeeb said:


> Told us to get out of the way so he could get his rig down the ramp (we arrived 15 minutes ahead of him). We basically gave him a continuous tongue lashing at that point (explicitives deleated) and helped him get his gear loaded.


Maybe that's why his raft left, his karma was already spent.


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## mordeeb (Sep 27, 2012)

flythetons said:


> > He was running the river solo, this guy, his wife, and 3 dogs walked down river from Cradle to Otter hoping they would find it/QUOTE]
> >
> > Was this the guy with the red aire and the everything bag of death? Did he flip or just loose his boat from cradle eddy?
> 
> ...


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## carvedog (May 11, 2005)

penguin - you got it right. Do your own thing. Just because everyone else wants to get there and choose camps two days ahead of time doesn't mean it's the only way. 

And what part of - and here is his quote "However, we don't really want to camp at the put-in the night before -" do you guys not understand? Camping takes time even in August. Time to find a flat spot, tent up which may not be necessary, Dewy gear in the morning you have to dry. And there may be others on the trip who have acquiesced to sleeping on the ground for a week but want a motel the night before. 

I am lucky in that I live about 2.5 hours from the put in. I usually have everyone show up the night before but for a couple small trips we drove in the morning of. It's actually pretty awesome to sleep in a good bed and get a shower after you finish loading right before you drive. 

Being a small group you will have some awesome camps that are not available to the others. You will want some extra time to pick your way off the top. 
Good luck.


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## lll100 (May 11, 2011)

Picking camps at boundary may be moot point anyways. With the low water this year, the rangers may have moved down to Indian Creek by that time as a majority of trips will be flying in. We usually fly in 800-1000 lbs of gear to Indian Creek on the late season floats. Costs $200 and makes the upper river alot easier. Good luck.


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## Avatard (Apr 29, 2011)

lll100 said:


> Picking camps at boundary may be moot point anyways. With the low water this year, the rangers may have moved down to Indian Creek by that time as a majority of trips will be flying in. We usually fly in 800-1000 lbs of gear to Indian Creek on the late season floats. Costs $200 and makes the upper river alot easier. Good luck.


If nobody is at Boundary do you launch two days early to be at Indian on your launch date? Or is there someone to notify that you may be two days late arriving at Indian?


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## lll100 (May 11, 2011)

Just launch on your date and get the permit at Indian Creek when you get there.


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## carvedog (May 11, 2005)

lll100 said:


> Picking camps at boundary may be moot point anyways. With the low water this year, the rangers may have moved down to Indian Creek by that time as a majority of trips will be flying in. We usually fly in 800-1000 lbs of gear to Indian Creek on the late season floats. Costs $200 and makes the upper river alot easier. Good luck.


Early August the rangers will not have abandoned Boundary. Of that I am certain. 

Where do you get 1000lbs flown in for $200? Your own plane? The best I know of is closer to $400 and out of Challis.


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## lll100 (May 11, 2011)

I did some checking and you were right on the plane load, we did have a good buddy deal. McCall to Indian Creek is now $517 for 900 lbs. ouch. 1600 lbs. is $820. All through McCall Air. Hope we still have that buddy.

Launched a couple years ago mid/late august with no rangers, we were only group at boundary.


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## mordeeb (Sep 27, 2012)

flythetons said:


> > He was running the river solo, this guy, his wife, and 3 dogs walked down river from Cradle to Otter hoping they would find it/QUOTE]
> >
> > Was this the guy with the red aire and the everything bag of death? Did he flip or just loose his boat from cradle eddy?
> 
> ...


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## flythetons (May 30, 2009)

Don't know Darin. We met the couple and dogs at Boundary and saw them several times on the river. Last time being the day they were supposed to camp at Cradle. Saw them again hauling gear up to their car at Stoddard. Was wondering how they got their boat out at Stoddard with her having a broken wrist but they must have just dumped a bunch of gear there and picked it up. Kind of felt sorry for the dogs but she stated he'd been down 100 times or so. Do you know the story behind the awol boat?


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## mordeeb (Sep 27, 2012)

flythetons said:


> Don't know Darin. We met the couple and dogs at Boundary and saw them several times on the river. Last time being the day they were supposed to camp at Cradle. Saw them again hauling gear up to their car at Stoddard. Was wondering how they got their boat out at Stoddard with her having a broken wrist but they must have just dumped a bunch of gear there and picked it up. Kind of felt sorry for the dogs but she stated he'd been down 100 times or so. Do you know the story behind the awol boat?


You must have been the group ahead of us taking out at Cache Bar. We saw them parked on the Main using the facilities as we passed by. She stayed behind, he came down to the take out alone. Don't know the situation about how their boat got loose, but they lost it at Cradle. We invited them in to camp with us and offered them dinner. Had an issue with their dogs running all over the place, they wouldn't leash them and headed diwn river at near dark. Stopped by the FS office in Challis on my way home to see if this guy had a permit, he did. The river manager knew exactly who I was talking about. He told us he'd been down the MF 82 times. He gets his permits from no shows and last minute cancellations like Johnny on the spot. Must be a local dude. Rather odd he runs solo, I now know why.


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## stuntsheriff (Jun 3, 2009)

Do dog owners pack out the dog crap ? Just wondering.....


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## mordeeb (Sep 27, 2012)

My guess would be only the most consciencious of boaters pack out dog poop, and only if its around camp.


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## bucketboater (Jul 9, 2012)

penguin said:


> Hey all,
> 
> I'm a permit holder for an early August launch at Boundary Creek on the Middle Fork Salmon. From our location in California, this trip can be very long when you combine the drive on both sides, so we're driving in one day from Truckee to Stanley, and then going to Boundary the morning of our launch. There are nine people in our party.
> 
> ...


Just got home from the mfs.On the day of the launch at 10 am we were denied all oursmall party launch picks. No biggie all camps are good with the exception of johns camp.Its a burning hell thats devoid of any living organisms, makes the sahara seem like a lush landscape. The only chit camp on the river imo. 
Wherever you put in bring a very,very,little boat.Its going be a bumpy ride. Have fun


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## Wyldman (Jun 11, 2013)

bucketboater said:


> On the day of the launch at 10 am we were denied all our small party launch picks.


What camps were you trying to get?


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## TOMATS52 (Feb 22, 2012)

Making Boundary the night before for the campsite choosing is no big deal unless you're dead-set on particular sites (which you may not get anyway). As previous posters suggested, if you are travelling that far, camp or stay in somewhere along the way like Boise or Lowman (Pine Flat is good too). Going to Stanley, you'll be backtracking in the morning. The big thing to remember is that the water will be very boney at the top. We are launching at Boundary a couple days before you and "high boating" or "deadheading" (single oarspersons in unloaded boats) down to Indian Creek where the rest of our group will meet us. Idahoriverguide's sage advice above - allow extra time to get down the top is very true.


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