# Deso Shuttle?



## pepejohns (Jul 14, 2014)

Hey Buzzards,
Just got word that River Runners won't be able to run my group's Deso shuttle in the second week of June (yes we know about the skeeters). They recommended we contact Jolley River Shuttle or River Access and Transport Services. Anyone have any experiences or preferences they would like to share? Thanks for any insights.


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## RidgeLivin (Apr 25, 2019)

Are they shutting down shuttles for good or is it just a timing conflict?


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## B4otter (Apr 20, 2009)

DIY and use Redtail back to Sand Wash. Awesome flight, $168 per person (3 person minimum).

I booked them for a recent solo Deso, called and asked when they had a group going to avoid the 3 pax minimum. They told me 4/29, which was a day earlier than I wanted but to save $336 I said "sure." Dropped boat @ Sand Wash after driving from Salt Lake, drove down to Grim Reaper and slept at Swaysey's (full moon - gorgeous!) after burger at Ray's, during which also arranged ride to "airport" in the morning to catch 7 a.m. flight.

Got to GR airstrip @ 0650, plane landed exactly at 7 a.m. and pilot turned out to be same who had flown me into Mineral March 24 - first flight into Mineral of the year! No one else around, pilot called contact # and was told other folks had cancelled 4 weeks previous. "Office problem, I just fly the plane" and we took off and had PERFECT flight into Sand Wash strip, no bumps, perfect weather. 

I've flown w?Redtail more than 40 years and they are GREAT! Plus if you drive yourself you have no one to blame for any mechanical issues...!!!


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## cdw24601 (Apr 6, 2021)

River Runners needs to be transparent about what's going on or take down their website. I don't care how long they have been doing it they never answered calls and now are off the Blm reccommended list. it's cool if you want to retire but for fuck sake turn off your website.


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## Roseldo (Aug 27, 2020)

Just got off a trip down there and we used River Access and Transport Services :


https://rivershuttleus.com/



I was pleased…vehicles arrived undamaged and they even vacuumed the floors and wiped down the dash


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## LRBBCO (Aug 6, 2018)

I second Redtail. Cheaper and a great time. I don't have much trust left for shuttle drivers on Wrinkle road and the TSA line goes quick at the Green River airport.


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

cdw24601 said:


> River Runners needs to be transparent about what's going on or take down their website. I don't care how long they have been doing it they never answered calls and now are off the Blm reccommended list. it's cool if you want to retire but for fuck sake turn off your website.


The scuttlebutt I heard was the BLM dropped them due to the overwhelming amount of complaints the generated, folks were calling the agency and venting when they had unresolved damage issues. This is rumor, I have nothing to substantiate it with, but it seems likely given their track record. RRT has been a lot of things over the years, but upstanding, forthright and transparent have never been their hallmark in MY experience. Yes, I'm aware that some have used them without incident..


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## Riverwild (Jun 19, 2015)

I don't think that is the case. I heard that their 10 year permit is up with the BLM and it's taking some time to get thru the red tape to get it re-issued. We used Dusty Jensen's operation a couple weeks ago out of Duchesne and he was great.


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

Well, being intimately familiar with how government and their processes work, if you have a permit, it's pretty much grandfathered in and renews automatically unless there's some reason for the government not to renew it... Is that the case in this instance? I can't say one way or the other. Just what I heard

As an aside, there have been numerous posts of RRT causing damage, among other things. The fact that they don't answer their phone says something right there... Dusty on the other hand has had nothing but absolutely stellar reports, replete with cleaning the vehicles and zero damage that I've heard of, or has been posted here. Absolutely no reason to look elsewhere in my opinion


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## okieboater (Oct 19, 2004)

I can vouch for Dusty Jensen. I met him on a Deso Gray float setup by a mutual friend. Great person to float with and Dusty helped me recover from an accident.


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## watersarah (Aug 24, 2009)

Another recommendation for Dusty @ https://rivershuttleus.com/ . He's awesome!!


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## 2tomcat2 (May 27, 2012)

MNichols said:


> Well, being intimately familiar with how government and their processes work, if you have a permit, it's pretty much grandfathered in and renews automatically unless there's some reason for the government not to renew it... Is that the case in this instance? I can't say one way or the other. Just what I heard
> 
> As an aside, there have been numerous posts of RRT causing damage, among other things. The fact that they don't answer their phone says something right there... Dusty on the other hand has had nothing but absolutely stellar reports, replete with cleaning the vehicles and zero damage that I've heard of, or has been posted here. Absolutely no reason to look elsewhere in my opinion


Not as familiar with BLM permits but Forest Service permits are not grandfathered in and are an enormous pain to apply for never guaranteed for renewal


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

It depends on the type of permit, and the type of activity. Something as simple as being a civilian contractor providing a service to the public, and paying no percentage to the gubbermint, with no tie to the government, but simply being allowed to conduct business where it originates on government land, there's not a whole lot of red tape to go thru, it's a rubber stamp process.

Now a river outfitter, or a interp guide service such as horseback tours, things of that sort require a little more vetting, but if they have been operating on a 10 year permit, with no issues / problems, then it indeed is more of a going thru the motions sort of thing than anything else, with a pretty much guaranteed outcome. The gov't wants to insure insurance is intact, which they don't require of a shuttle service which uses independent contractors, so no workers comp etc, I suppose they could require the drivers to be licensed and such, but I simply don't see, in THIS instance that level of regulation. RRT by their own admission is uninsured, so...

I can't remember exactly then their name was pulled from the BLM site, but IIRC it was at LEAST 6 months ago... There were complaints they couldn't be contacted on this forum as far back as November IIRC. The review process would have been initiated at least a year before the permit expired, unless something untoward happened, like an accumulating list of complaints, or some abhorrent violation of government rules and regs. And that's even assuming they HAD a permit to conduct business. I've not heard of another instance where the shuttle service was permitted, I know in UT they just exist. What they were, that I'm sure of, is "recommended" on the web site. That's not the same as being permitted by an agency.

Like I said, my information is only gossip and innuendo, but to my way of thinking, it surely makes more sense than a paperwork snafu, and if it WAS a paperwork snafu, I find it very hard to believe that the managing agency would contact the website developer, which is usually a contractor, and have them remove their name from the list. Most likely they would just let it ride in anticipation of a renewal. Taking that sort of step, is a big step to take considering all the other things the understaffed and overworked agencies have to deal with.

The whole thing sounds fishy to me at the end of the day, but fishy is the mantra of RRT. I still love their disclaimer, which has been tamed down in the last year or 2. Never have I had to fill out something like this to get a vehicle shuttled

Knowing that the vehicle may be unattended before pick up or after delivery by Contractor, and knowing that there are risks involved in completing the job as instructed, which risks include, but are not limited to, theft, vandalism,auto accidents, cracked, chipped and/or broke windows, damage from fire or elements, and the possibility of hitting animals on roads, EMPLOYER HEREBY ASSUMES ALL RISKS of damage, loss or injury to any and all persons or property, including, but not limited to, the vehicle and their contents, resulting from Contractor’s performance under this Agreement which are caused by negligence or inherent risks with this type of activity.

Full agreement here. https://www.riverrunnerstransport.com/rrt-hiring-agreement.pdf

As a lawyer told me, it basically wouldn't hold up in court. You can't say you're not responsible for negligence, if you are indeed responsible.


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## gdaut (Jul 30, 2019)

Another recommendation for Redtail Air. Drop your boat (and maybe some of your party) at the put in, drive down to Green river, and fly back up tp the put in. If you are leaving some people overnight at the put in, book one of the screen houses.


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## Timsr (Mar 10, 2019)

We also give https://rivershuttleus.com/ the thumbs up. We used them in March, everything went well, nice note and a sticker when we got to it at Swazey’s, and - get this - they’d washed the trucks. After doing a Deso shuttle about every possible way I’ve gotten to really like best of all just parking it, leave all the keys in a lead vehicle, put a $20 tip in every truck, launch the next morning. (The Redtail flight is super cool though, but the turnaround drive back to Green River after unloading and rigging is getting harder.)


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

A washed truck beats a destroyed one any day! Dusty sure is making a name for his business, certainly not the name RRT has made for themselves..



Timsr said:


> We also give https://rivershuttleus.com/ the thumbs up. We used them in March, everything went well, nice note and a sticker when we got to it at Swazey’s, and - get this - they’d washed the trucks. After doing a Deso shuttle about every possible way I’ve gotten to really like best of all just parking it, leave all the keys in a lead vehicle, put a $20 tip in every truck, launch the next morning. (The Redtail flight is super cool though, but the turnaround drive back to Green River after unloading and rigging is getting harder.)


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## stony2275 (Apr 26, 2010)

cdw24601 said:


> River Runners needs to be transparent about what's going on or take down their website. I don't care how long they have been doing it they never answered calls and now are off the Blm reccommended list. it's cool if you want to retire but for fuck sake turn off your website.


We used their service last week to shuttle cars for a Yampa trip. Our group has been using them for as long as they have been around (Deso, Ladore, Yampa) and their service is alway stellar, they are responsive and our vehicles are well taken care of. I don't know what the current Deso situation is about, but we used them last summer with no issues.

For f**** sake give them a break. It is a tough business to operate.


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## Unca Walt (Apr 9, 2012)

pepejohns said:


> Hey Buzzards,
> Just got word that River Runners won't be able to run my group's Deso shuttle in the second week of June (yes we know about the skeeters). They recommended we contact Jolley River Shuttle or River Access and Transport Services. Anyone have any experiences or preferences they would like to share? Thanks for any insights.


We went with RATS... they are in Duchene... $225/ vehicle, Dusty is great to work with


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## Birgit (Jul 10, 2011)

pepejohns said:


> Hey Buzzards,
> Just got word that River Runners won't be able to run my group's Deso shuttle in the second week of June (yes we know about the skeeters). They recommended we contact Jolley River Shuttle or River Access and Transport Services. Anyone have any experiences or preferences they would like to share? Thanks for any insights.


We used Dusty’s River Accra’s and Transport Services last October and were super happy with the service.

Cheers,
Birgit


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## jkr61 (Mar 13, 2015)

Talked to Melanie yesterday. I called at 10:30am she picked right up. They are not doing Deso shuttles. They still do Lodore and will also pick up from Little Hole. I’ve used them 3 times for Lodore in the last 10 years with them usually shuttling 4-5 vehicles for us each time. Have never had a problem. I flew with red tail once (mineral bottom to town of green river) definitely a cool way to go. All shuttle forms I’ve ever signed wether it’s for the salmon, Grand Canyon or others have similar language.


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## pepejohns (Jul 14, 2014)

Thanks for all the replies and great info. FWIW Melanie at RR told me it was a permit renewal/processing issue and they just wouldn't have the renewed permit in time for our launch.


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## americanspiritcarshuttle (Mar 17, 2020)

2tomcat2 said:


> Not as familiar with BLM permits but Forest Service permits are not grandfathered in and are an enormous pain to apply for never guaranteed for renewal


I operated a car shuttle mostly on the Ruby Horsethief and Westwater sections of the Colorado for 25 years. We had a permit with the BLM in Moab for many years when we also had a passenger transportation service, and had to maintain VERY expensive insurance anyway. The BLM registration is rediculous. The registration process and year-end reporting are the same as for outfitters actually using the river and BLM land. We were just driving our vehicle and customers' vehicles for a very few miles on BLM land. I'm sorry, but you are incorrect that there are no fees; they charged us 3% of revenue generated. They also required a $1M liability insurance policy, which we can no longer purchase without the passenger transportation service. It became so difficult we just gave up.
We never ran shuttles for Deso. I have no experience with RRs. But I have had experience with BLM permitting and reporting, and it is a PAIN. Also, the different sections of rivers can be overseen by different districts, which do not necessarily have the same permitting and reporting processes. Maybe the Deso section is just more difficult to deal with. Maybe they were effected by Covid, a heart attack, or some other personal difficulties that we cannot know. 
There were several alternate services recommended here. In my opinion you all should give RRs a break and use some other service.


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## americanspiritcarshuttle (Mar 17, 2020)

MNichols said:


> It depends on the type of permit, and the type of activity. Something as simple as being a civilian contractor providing a service to the public, and paying no percentage to the gubbermint, with no tie to the government, but simply being allowed to conduct business where it originates on government land, there's not a whole lot of red tape to go thru, it's a rubber stamp process.
> 
> Now a river outfitter, or a interp guide service such as horseback tours, things of that sort require a little more vetting, but if they have been operating on a 10 year permit, with no issues / problems, then it indeed is more of a going thru the motions sort of thing than anything else, with a pretty much guaranteed outcome. The gov't wants to insure insurance is intact, which they don't require of a shuttle service which uses independent contractors, so no workers comp etc, I suppose they could require the drivers to be licensed and such, but I simply don't see, in THIS instance that level of regulation. RRT by their own admission is uninsured, so...
> 
> ...


sorry, but you are absolutely WRONG in your opening statement. please see my full comment below


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## Osprey (May 26, 2006)

just thought I would update....talked to Melanie this morning and she said they still aren't able to run Deso shuttles due to the permit issues and she referred me to the two others. I picked up a 6/20 cancellation but she didn't say when they'd be back up and running. Found this thread and signed up with Dusty due to the recos here.


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## Lone Star (May 16, 2021)

Last week I saw more vehicles parked at Sand Wash than I've encountered before. It was absolutely nuts. Just a coincidence that RRT happens to not be running??


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## atg200 (Apr 24, 2007)

I think it is because more huge groups are launching. I've run Deso many times over the years, and usually most groups were fairly small. When I launched a few weeks ago there were multiple 20+ person trips launching that day, which makes for a lot of vehicles.


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

Osprey said:


> just thought I would update....talked to Melanie this morning and she said they still aren't able to run Deso shuttles due to the permit issues and she referred me to the two others. I picked up a 6/20 cancellation but she didn't say when they'd be back up and running. Found this thread and signed up with Dusty due to the recos here.


I called the BLM asking about information related to RRT, they were extremely tight-lipped, and what I got out of the deal was their permit wasn't renewed for a reason, but they aren't willing to talk about what that reason was. It's a good thing that Dusty has taken over, from all reports I've heard it's certainly a superior service


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