# Where the best place to live?



## Krynn (Jan 20, 2004)

Of course I would love to stay in Denver, but...

I am graduating from Medical School in 9 months and I need to apply to Radiology Residency Programs. There are roughly 190 programs scattered across the country. I am looking for advice on the best place to live. 

My primary hobby is kayaking. (Thats why I am asking you guys for advice.) I would love to stay close to some class III-IV-V runs. 

But I also enjoy snowboarding, mountain biking, running, and fishing. Other important factors are length of commute, and safety. I would like to find a good safe place to start a family. 

I grew up in Idaho. I am going to school in Denver. I am familiar with the west, but would not be opposed to moving to the south or northeast. 

Any advice or opinions would be appreciated. Thanks 

A few of the choices are:

Birmingham, Alabama 
Mobile, Alabama 
Phoenix, Arizona 
Tucson, Arizona 
Little Rock, Arkansas 
a dozen California programs 
Denver, Colorado 
New Haven, Connecticut 
Jacksonville, Florida 
Savannah, Georgia 
Indianapolis, Indiana 
Iowa City, Iowa 
Kansas City, Kansas 
Wichita, Kansas 
Lexington, Kentucky 
Louisville, Kentucky 
New Orleans, Louisiana 
Shreveport, Louisiana 
Portland, Maine 
Baltimore, Maryland 
Rochester, Minnesota 
Jackson, Mississippi 
Columbia, Missouri 
St Louis, Missouri 
Omaha, Nebraska 
Albuquerque, New Mexico 
Rochester, New York 
Valhalla, New York 
Durham, North Carolina 
Winston-Salem, North Carolina 
Portland, Oregon 
A bunch of Pennsylvania programs 
Providence, Rhode Island 
Charleston, South Carolina 
Knoxville, Tennessee 
Memphis, Tennessee 
Nashville, Tennessee 
Quite a few Texas programs 
Salt Lake City, Utah 
Charlottesville, Virginia 
Richmond, Virginia 
Burlington, Vermont 
Seattle, Washington 
Spokane, Washington 
Tacoma, Washington 
Morgantown, West Virginia 
Madison, Wisconsin 
Milwaukee, Wisconsin 

A full list at http://www.ama-assn.org/vapp/freida/pgmrslt/1,1239,,00.html 

Thanks in advance.


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## willpaddle4food (Oct 11, 2003)

Where would be the best place to live for an outdoor minded, kayakin' graduating med student. Hmm. Well, there's this thing I read about rivers, where you're supposed to 'point positively', point in the direction the person SHOULD GO. My life ain't been that way, but I have survived some real shitholes, and at the very delicious risk of pissin' anyone in this forum off, I'll gladly tell ya where NOT to go:

Don't go to New Haven Connecticut. Having spent two years around there, I can tell you in a word: NO. But one word don't even begin to describe the disgust and outrage I feel at having wasted two perfectly good years in that godawful state fulla inbred, entitled, enfeebled, uppercrust trustfundin' blueblood batch o' dissaproving morally upright boring snooty backward dweebs whom resemble nothing so much as yard dogs barking frantically at imagined intrusions into their dubious paradise. Highways suck too. Graft and corruption amazingly high. Oh yeah, kayaking sucks too.

Don't go to Kansas. Grew up there. Nice people. Boring boring boring. Humidity very high. Few national parks. No moving water. Even if they pay you five million dollars a minute don't go to Kansas. Or Connecticut. Or Rhode Island. Ditto Saint Louis, MO and Columbia. 
I once fought the Front Range sprawl and the I70 corridor and all the horrors it contains on an icy day, and moved south. I'll tell you now: Phoenix is right fucking out. Don't even think about it. It's where the old people go to nurse their arthritis and STAY INDOORS. It's a gridlocked sweltering anthill of debased humanity. No moving water anywhere. Tucson sucks slightly less but it has less than zero to offer a whitewater enthusiast.


Oh sure, you'll say to yourself: "But the career advancement opportunity is so great. There's a house there for sale, reasonable, and the crime rate in that gated community is so LOW. There's a runner's club, and someone there knows someone who once paddled on a canoe with someone's uncle." But moving is a drag, it gets old, it costs money, and a few years down the road you'll be in some flyblown, mosquito infested, still-water hell, surrounded by people who think YOU'RE weird for not enjoying bass fishing enough, or golfing, for God's sake.
On the other hand, you'll be an actual doctor soon enough. You'll be playing golf inevitably, admit it now, or not. Face it, dog: The next ten years of your life will be a frantic sleepless blur of pissed-off patients, pending neurotic malpractice suits, steeply rising insurance premiums, sleep deprivation, irritated and neglected family members, and no time for aught but a distant memory of free time and the days when the outdoors was something besides where you had to go to get from work to your car, and your car to your well-appointed but curiously unsatisfying nice house. The immediate past, spare as it may have seemed up till now, will become 'the good old days' and henceforth is the millstone of professional improvement and career advancement. You're fucked. Shoulda just been a river guide or a construction worker.
That said, well, uhhh....Albuequerque isn't all that far from Taos and it's whitewater, or the state of Colorado. Salt Lake City isn't too far from some spectacular outdoors and rivers. Madison and Louisiana and Portland are pretty cool places to be, although not necessarily for the outdoors. Shit, with the homicide rate in New Orleans, you should be able to learn plenty about trauma in a hurry.

Oh. Wait. I just looked again at your question. Residency? You'll probably be moving afterwards again anyway. Not a life sentence then. Hell, relax and have some fun. Try to spare some time and make your first marriage last and don't let that title go to your head too much in the first ten years.


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## Dave Frank (Oct 14, 2003)

That was fantastic.


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## willpaddle4food (Oct 11, 2003)

Thanx. Yeah, I bitch and moan way better than I boat.


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## Andy H. (Oct 13, 2003)

No Shit! What a hoot!


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## FlyingFluke (Jun 13, 2005)

Kind of depends on the season. Want to spend the Winter paddling? Got to go where it rains...want good skiing in the mix...pans out to be the Northwest. Or Tahoe/Truckee. California has a couple of boater forums that are worth checking out: www.boof.com and www.cacreeks.com. Maybe the folks in cali are a little bit more cooperative and point you the right way. Ignore all the envious people above.


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## leery (May 16, 2005)

I'll give my $.02 on the south since i've spent some time down there. From May - Sept its hot, humid, and muggy. I'd stay clear of Mississippi, even people from Alabama make fun of Miss. So that would leave you with Tennessee or bama. The good points are: 

1. good kayaking on the Ocoee
2. reasonably close to the coast
3. lots of lakes for fishing, skiing, sailing, 
4. cost of living is pretty cheap
5. Girls are extremely attractive (if you can stand the southern accent). 
6. The pace and attitude is similar to CO. People take their time and are exceptionally friendly.
7. The food is good, but it will kill you. I lived in a dorm for awhile and all the natives insisted on having a fry daddy in their room. Idiots.

Beware of: ********, heat/humidity, and psychotic football fans

I've also spent some time in Oregon and think its pretty much like CO. Probably about the same distance for your mountain commute. 

Willpaddle4food: one of the best rants I've read on the buzz. danka.


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## PhilBob (Jun 30, 2005)

hands down its gotta be portland oregon. There are literally hundreds of rivers in the NW, and the ocean as well. They get a lot of rain so something somewhere is always running.'

As a second choice I would probably pick the North Carolina ones. There is also quite a few good rivers and creeks there.


Denver sucks ass.




Phil.


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## DanOrion (Jun 8, 2004)

> surrounded by people who think YOU'RE weird for not enjoying bass fishing enough


great stuff! :lol: 

If you like colder than death winters, unintelligible local accents and rainy summers, Vermont is a great pick. It's kind of like Scotland with more cows.

Vermont is really beautiful, great accessibility to all sorts of outdoor activities. It's a big change in scenery that would be worth checking out. Awesome hiking and backpacking. Buyer beware though, all comments above do apply.


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## stinginrivers (Oct 18, 2003)

willpaddleforfood, that was awesome. 

For some good east coast year round paddling check out morgantown w.v.
Close to the Cheat, Big Sandy ,and the top, upper and lower yough.

The Tygart isn't too far for some great park and huck waterfalls 3 15-18 footers in a park that you can run them and walk a couple hundred yards back up and do it again. Plus the Gauley is only an 1 hour or so south.

Yea you have some ******** but they are super nice ********. 
Plus you have some good old homestyle cookin, oh yea. Country fried steak, biscuits and muffins, grits, just about everything the surgeon general will warn you not to eat.

Snowshoe resort isn't too far away and they actually get some snow.

Good luck


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## newby0616 (Jun 16, 2005)

*The best place to live?*

As someone who was born in the South, raised in the South, and thankfully redeemed herself by going to school overseas and being saved from what could have been a pitifully boring existence as the kept society wife of some stuffy, overmoneyed and undersexed piece of "decent" breeding (WillPaddle: you still have me beat by a long shot! I'm not even gonna try to compete!  ), I'll also throw my hat in the ring for where NOT to go:

Don't go to Mobile, AL. Sure, they have good programs there, I have a cousin who's practicing nephrology there now, and an uncle who's a very successful orthopaedist (the likes of which I think I described above), and it's a pretty town. It's also dying, the water is filthy, and there's nowhere to play that doesn't require a substantial drive. Florida makes for a nice road trip, but wouldn't you rather live closer to the beach than have to drive there every weekend? Also, Florida is that much closer to Georgia, which is the closest whitewater paddling to either of those states.

I second the opinion on Phoenix, BTW-- never lived there, but my godson's mother did. The most vivid memories I have of the place are the 115 degree heat, and a vivid mental image of my friend having a "pregnant" moment and going off on a couple of wanna-be gang-bangers for a good 15 minutes on end one sweltering afternoon.

Little Rock, AR - what can I say.... more family there, too... they all live in NORTH Little Rock because Little Rock itself is too dangerous. Didn't you see that HBO documentary on "Bangin' in Little Rock" a few years back?? I don't know much about their med programs, but Arkansas is a flat, boring, backwater state, and I wouldn't personally want to live there. That being said, HOT SPRINGS and the Ouachita Mountain area (about 45 min from LR) almost make it seem you aren't in Arkansas. It's pretty, the people are friendly, but you do run the risk of being overrun by tourists, especially on Derby weekend. The Cossatot River (class III, goes up to III/IV in th spring) is nearby, as are a number of fairly challenging bike trails. Lake Ouachita is one of the prettiest bodies of water you'll ever set eyes on, and the guys at Ouachita Outdoor Outfitters are great about getting creative with hiking, paddling, camping, and biking activities that make good use of the region. 

Savannah, GA - Pretty city, but dying, too. More folks going out than in. Proximity to Atlantic beaches is a plus, but proximity to Atlanta a minus. Even if it is several hours away. You'll have to travel to paddle, and will be limited in options in TN and NC. verdict: you could probably do worse, but you could also probably do better.

New Orleans, LA - see "homicide rate" posting above. It's sweltering, dirty, and reeks of booze, vomit, and death on a Sunday morning, and lord knows you don't want anything to do with the River in that town... unless, that is, you want your kids to be born with three eyes and deformed genitalia.

Shreveport, LA - There's nothing there. Decent proximity to Ouachita area in Arkansas, but otherwise... hmmm.... do you enjoy the smell of paper mills, by chance?

Jackson, MS - NO. no no no and more no. You don't want to go here. There's nothing there? There's nothing in the whole state?? I was born there, for chrissakes. I don't live there now. Closeminded people, lots of old-south, old-money, pedigree-bred politics, and no where to go play. Hot and humid, with mosquitos the size of hovercraft. Only has two seasons: hot and less hot. Also, no snow-- EVER. What fun is that?

Memphis, TN - I saved Memphis for last. Take all the bad from all the posts above, subtract the good and then some, and you've got Memphis. I lived there for years, and never felt safe once. Lots of gang activity, very high crime rate, violent crime rate against women is about 20 times the national average, there are at least 12-20 carjackings a day, and the per-capita murder rate is thru the roof. I have a disabled grandmother and a disable aunt who live there now, and it scares me to no ends. I've seen people shot and bleeding out in the floor of a quickie mart, been in a coffee shop when it was robbed at gunpoint, and had friends who were literally stuffed in the trunk of a car, one who disappeared without a trace, and another who was murdered for $3 and change. The crime rate alone should be enough to keep you out-- and for whatever it's worth, I'm in public health myself, and didn't even consider UT's graduate programs because their medical campus is in Memphis.

If you have your heart set on TN, though, Chattanooga can't be beat, and Nashville's not that bad, either.


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## manofthehouse4now (May 7, 2005)

Glenwood Springs Colorado


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## Roy (Oct 30, 2003)

Having never lived in the east, I won't comment on anything right of the Rockies. Besides, you did say you like snowboarding, and if that's a requirement then you don't wanna go that direction anyway. So from your list in the west, I'd say to focus on:

a dozen California programs

First and foremost, stay the hell out of LA! Other than that, closer to the coast and you'll be more surf oriented with a few hours drive to the Sierras, and vise versa. Tahoe would be awesome. If you need a city, Sacramento wouldn't be a bad compromise geographically, but you may have to buy a Camero and grow a mullet. 

Denver, Colorado

Good or bad, you know the story here...

Albuquerque, New Mexico

While this year was a great snow and flow year for Taos, but don't be fooled--dry spells are measured in decades. Besides, Albuquerque aint Taos.

Portland, Oregon

Great choice if you don't mind a little rain.

Salt Lake City, Utah

Pretty light on local rivers, but lots of pretty decent stuff in a 3 hr drive radius. Best damn snow in the lower 48 (or anywhere else that I know of), but as of today, the anti-snowboard Nazis won't let you on Alta (same w/ Taos). Social climate in SLC is a bit stifled by the LDS and I've heard that not being a member can be an impediment to career advancement, but there's a decent sized counterculter there too. 

Seattle (or Tacoma), Washington

Great choice if you don't mind a little more rain. Way bigger/more congested than Portland, but a cooler city, IMHO.

Spokane, Washington

This could be the ticket! Decent local rivers and good access to the whole panhandle area of Idaho. Great skiing nearby and a good sized (not too big) city.


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## Ken C (Oct 21, 2003)

*Salt Lake City ?*

I moved here from Denver two and a half years ago. I would put it way ahead of Denver area on all out of door activities with the exception of boating. Acessability to the out of doors is stellar, and when you are out the crowds are non existant. I commute to the city from Park City. It's half an hour on a bad day. My drive from Denver to Boulder had reached an hour on good evenings before I left. You have great biking right outside your door. Likewise with sking and fly fishing. 

Boating is tough. There are a few park and play spots, and you go out and don't see another boater ever. You can exhast yourself on a wave and never have to observe Golden rules. If your looking to meet up with someone at the river, make arangements in advance, because you could wait all day and not see someone. You can't just show up and join a group like you would on clear creek, the numbers, etc... There are alot of steep creeking opportunities, or class II-III stuff, but nothing real close of substance. 

Finally the LDS thing. I'm not out in the Bars anymore, but have not seen it be an issue yet. If you are in Park City or Salt Lake City, the majority is non LDS. If you were in another small town, it could be an issue, although they are some of the best neighbors you could ever ask for. 

Finally, I would stay away from Albuquerque. I was raised in Northern New Mexico and love it, but every young person I've known there is trying to leave. Crime, poor schools and poor wages seem to be common themes.

My two cents.

Ken


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## TennesseeMatt (Jul 21, 2005)

*Knoxville, TN*

Knoxville is really good if you're really into boating. Thanks to TVA some rivers run all summer and then once it starts raining in the fall the creeks come up, thus we get good kayaking all year. The location also puts you within 4 hours of most southern boating. There is also good mountain biking and fishing. As far as snowboarding goes, watch the weather and go on a good day or bring your ice skates. 

Matt


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## El Flaco (Nov 5, 2003)

Portland and Sea-Tac are pretty obvious first choices for boating. However, take a close look at Charlottesville, VA. By far one of the most beautiful towns in the Southeast, and it's centrally located to the WVA boating communities, as well as all of the NC mountains, and it's not that far a drive to the Potomac for lots of other year-round opportunities. There's no in-town boating options to speak of, but it's a mid-sized town with a world-class university and plenty of culture- and would be a excellent place to raise a family. Very safe, temperate climate, and your commute would likely be very short. Cost of living is lower than Colorado & California, but probably higher for the Southeast. Snowboarding is close, but it's not really worth mentioning since you've been out West for so long. Good mtn biking, trail running, etc.


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## alan (Jul 11, 2004)

For a boater choosing residency?? Important things to consider 
1. Where do you want to live following residency?
2. Residency program/other residents/education/fellowships
3. Cost of living/salary
4. Boating 

I did my residency (pathology) in Knoxville, TN, and give K-town two thumbs up. Cost of living is relatively cheap (way cheap compared to the west). We had a lot of contact with the radiology residents, and I think they were all pretty happy. We had to do lots of conferences together. It seemed like a good program. They also get to do quite a bit of interventional stuff the last two years. It isn't all that competitive to get into (at least it wasn't) I know two UT staff members that boat, one in anesthesia and one in ob-gyn. Lots of close boating in the smokies (close boating in just about every direction), and the Green is 2 short hours away for year around boating (although I hear that lately the green is becoming less reliable with weird flows and times).

Where you want to live following resendcy is quite important when it comes to getting a job (unless you do interventional...then you can go where ever you want), because it often depends upon who you know when it comes to getting a job. So it is often easier to get a job in the region where you trained. 

I would recommend choosing your top two and doing rotations. I knew I wanted to go to knoxville prior to the match (after spending a month there) was able to list it as my only match program. 

Good Luck .

(BTW enjoy fourth year, shit gets a lot tougher once you start residency)


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## tboner (Oct 13, 2003)

stay here.. where else can you find a community of boaters like this???


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## Krynn (Jan 20, 2004)

*Thanks for all the great replies.*

We are still trying to figure out how important snow is in our future. We definitely kayak more that snowboard. Mountains are important. Hiking and biking. Low cost of living. Low crime.

Thanks for the good input on the best places to apply. We will likely end up applying to 30-50 programs. Then we will have to decide where the rank the places that offer interviews.

Thanks again everybody.


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## Kimy (Jul 1, 2005)

*Where to live*

Hey we're not done with you!
Enjoyed reading all of this as I am tired of my town! (San Diego, go figure).
I've been going to Summit County, CO to ski and paddle for 8 years and just spent a month there in June. So everyday I check Mountainbuzz, ...just to stay in touch with Colorado boating. What is that all about?!
We have our own damn river near San Diego (the Kern) complete with the 2004 Olympic Slalom Silver Medal winner and great ocean surfing,...but somehow I wish I were back in Frisco, CO. 

So here is the SoCal wrap up. 
San Diego is still a great town, though getting pretty crowded. We mountain bike all winter in shirt sleeves and kayak surf some big stuff in Jan., Feb. and March. Summer is one big beach party! Can't complain about that. But if you are passionate about mountains or river kayaking...its a long drive before you are in real mountains. Its 5 hours to the Kern and 7 hours to Mammoth.
Consider Redlands, CA and Loma Linda University 
Yeah, beaucoup pollution and its really LA, but its a lot closer to the Kern.


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## MONKEY#1 (May 11, 2005)

one word- *new jersey*


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## Camiona (Apr 8, 2005)

The ones I would look at: (stars= how good the opportunties are for your extracurricular activities )


****a dozen California programs 

Lots of good rivers and mountains in California, esp if you are in the eastern part of the state!

****Denver, Colorado

You know the pros and cons of denver!

*Savannah, Georgia

Okay, so there's not so much in the way of boating or snowboarding there, but I LOVE savannah  My grandma lived there when I was a kid and it's a great town. mellow, slow paced, and friendly people. Lots of rivers on the other side of the state if you're willing to drive 

**Portland, Maine 

snow and rivers  But be aware all snow on the east is really ice. If it's not on the powder days, it will be in a day or 2. may not be as bad up that far north though, never been skiing there.

**Rochester, New York 
**Valhalla, New York 

Dunno where valhalla is, but Rochester is close enough to the adirondacks that you can get some good rivers and mountains. See above for snow conditions though!

**Durham, North Carolina 
**Winston-Salem, North Carolina 

these are central north carolina, a couple of hours from the mtns, a couple of hrs from the ocean. I love north carolina. be prepared for 100% man-made snow if you snowboard there though! There are good rivers in the western part of the state.

****Portland, Oregon 

Only passed through but I hear there's year-round boating and long ski seasons too!

*A bunch of Pennsylvania programs 

Rivers and mountains, man-made icy snow though. the poconos are where to find most of the ski resorts. Lower, middle, and upper yough are south of pittsburgh, cheat and tygart are a bit further south in north west VA. Lehigh and Delaware are class 2/3 in the eastern part of the state.

***Burlington, Vermont 

See comments for maine. plus killington is nearby I think.

****Seattle, Washington 
****Spokane, Washington 
****Tacoma, Washington 

See comments for oregon!

***Morgantown, West Virginia 

mountains, rivers galore. Icy snow though! New, gauley, cheat, tygart, and all sections of the yough as well as the shenandoah and potomac too!

Hope that helps! 

Lauren


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## KWLARSON (Jul 31, 2005)

If you are still reading my vote is for Portland.

For rivers and creeks:
Check out http://www.oregonkayaking.net/ for an online guide with photos.

For play spots checkout:
http://www.playboatingnorthwest.com/gear_ear.html

I am not sure what program you are looking at, but Oregon Health and Science University (OHSU) is strong. I have friends and acquaintances that have moved here for various residency programs at OHSU, Legacy Health System and Providence Health System and they were pleased with their decision.

I have lived here 3 years and love it for skiing, kayaking, Mt Biking and all other outdoor activities. You also have the beach west of Portland and East in the Columbia River Gorge you have World class Wind Surfing and Kite Boarding.

Yes there is a bunch of rain in the winter, but that is why there is insane boating. If I can deal w/ the wet stuff moving here from living on the sand in Newport Beach, CA then most folks who love to boat probably can too. 

You can boat all year long w/ great park and play as well as class IV-V creeks and everything else in-between. 

Also, from where I live on the eastside I can be from my living room to sitting on a lift in an hour up at Mt Hood. For a bigger Mountain experience, Mt Bachelor in central Oregon is under three hours away near the town of Bend. I am less than 40 minutes away from Bobs hole and two miles from an easy section of the Clackamas River.

Hope this helps, 

Kyle


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## Hartje (Oct 16, 2003)

For the recreational WW paddler, Morgantown WV is the best paddling town in the U.S. hands down. I've been all around and never have I encountered so many different types of rivers and creeks, all quality, in such close quarters. Compared to being out west, you will put half as many miles on your car and you can sleep in a bed every night as opposed to outfitting your rig for the woods. When it dries up you have the Yough, Tygart, and Gauley to keep you wet. You'll find the boating communities are much tighter knit here than in Colorado, but once you figure them out you'll have a hard time leaving.

California has some of the best rivers with wilderness trips being the highlight, though most communities require you to become dedicated to the sport of driving and car camping as much as being a kayaker. Rare is the California boater who gets to boat during the week. It's a different lifestyle than the east or even Colorado, but if you get the chance to live here I wouldn't pass it up. Also, unless you exclusively paddle class V, you'll probably find the boating community in California to be somewhat detached and void of the spirit found at say BTO or one of the Golden community rodeos. 

When it comes to the overall whitewater community, Colorado is the most welcoming and tolerant by a wide margin. I don't know why this is, but I'm glad for the years I spent boating in Colorado for this reason above any other.


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## BastrdSonOfElvis (Mar 24, 2005)

Go to Oregon. It's the best state for my glaucoma. 

I know it was a long time ago..but that rant was hype. I feel bad for los medicos...no life and there's not even that much cash in it anymore. Does it even matter where you are in the country?

FWIW I'll second CT sucking and VT rocking. ME is pretty sweet, too.


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## tsavo (Aug 25, 2004)

*go to Alaska*

You won't regret something in Juneau, Alaska...or somewhere around Anchorage. The opportunity for some interesting living still exist in Alaska. Besides, people are always needing to be fixed up there.


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## h2ohm (Apr 7, 2005)

*I have the only correct answer!*

You should live wherever your good kayaking buddy Dave lives! That gives you two possible options in the near future: Longmont CO. or Portland OR.

Call me so we can discuss the Portland idea. 

Forget what these other guys say. They do not have your best boating needs in mind when they reply. I am the only unbiased advice you will get on this post...Ha Ha!

ohmmmmmm (sound of the universe baby!)


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## WAV1 (Sep 20, 2004)

I grew up in the south and find it to be excelent living. The people are much more friendly and the chicks are way hotter. Tennessee and Alabama have some awesome whitewater as well as many of the other surrounding states. Not much for skiing in that part of the country but if you like fishing for bass your in.


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## hanflynn (Jul 4, 2005)

*it may be cold but it sure is pretty*

Hey- just a little plug for the green mountain state. i learned to paddle in vermont- and its not a great place for beginners, but there are just incredibly beautiful creeks (new haven, middlebury, big branch) and a small but great community of boaters. so you have to start the season as soon as the ice breaks- its worth it.
mad river, sugarbush and stowe are only 45 min from burlington, good music, good beer, and good people. 
maine (kennebec, dead, seboomac) is a weekend trip away!
it sure beats the front range (do i sound homesick?)
not that you'll have time to enjoy it during a residency (im 2 months into an internship an denver and have gotten out to play only twice!)


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## jferrell (May 19, 2005)

charlottesville, VA. Great town, good paddling nearby, and paddling in WVa is only 3 hours away.


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