# AIRE Super Puma for low water Middle Fork



## GeoRon (Jun 24, 2015)

Low water MF rig. Yea.

Fun, fun, fun. How are you going to do your perimeter line. Just asking.

Your frame choices in some respects may be limited by backlog at some sources. Since you are in ID go NRS. There is also a backlog on quality dry boxes in some areas so good luck. Please update me if I'm wrong.

Forgive me for being stupid, is SP seat position? Sorry Super Puma.

Eight foot oars depends a bit on your frame. If you do a slightly wider frame making it compatible with a future/previous larger raft then 8.5(9.5?) is not out of the question. But I'm not getting into that discussion except that I have a barrel full of 2 piece 9's essentially unused I'd love to sell here in Colorado. They are Carlisle but you should go better.


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## gnarsify (Oct 5, 2020)

I have a super duper puma that I use to run week or so long trips. I have a 4 bay NRS frame and it works just fine. Dry box was the hardest to find, and unless you have it custom made, Frontier Play is the only source I found for a 30" dry box. I have 9' or 9.5' oars (been skiing all winter I can't remember). The Canyon Outfitter 75 cooler fits perfect but the Yeti should be fine. I'm currently toying with the idea of adding sideboards and would be curious to see how other folks rig their Pumas.


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## EatFish4Life (Feb 8, 2020)

I run my Super Puma with an older 3 bay DRE Gunnison fishing frame. 8.5' oars.
I change it up on a lot of trips, but for a few nights with limited fishing, I keep the drop bag in the front bay under the poly deck, add taco pad on top for comfort, and just fill it up with smaller dry bags, pump, etc, then I fill up the back with my bags and strap on two smaller dry boxes, one on either side of the captains seat (missing on this pic). Just added some small poly decks on the side of captains seat to better mount the dry boxes. 
The Yeti 65 should fit ok, think I used to have one, but not sure on the 75, may be tight.
Hope this helps and good luck!


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## GeoRon (Jun 24, 2015)

I'd always go DRE but that requires thinking ahead. True quality and perfect custom fitting requires getting in line.

You are likely going to have to satisfy at this time for less.


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## gnarsify (Oct 5, 2020)

Nice setup EatFish4Life! My setup is constantly changing to match the trip and whether I'm fishing or not.

I looked around and found a photo of my boat rigged for a 5 day Smith River trip. Added the captains box and a 25L Yeti and left the fishing seat on.


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## codycleve (Mar 26, 2012)

If you struggle finding a frame and dont want NRS and dont mind taking a trip or 2 to salmon hit me up. My brother in law "lol as bad as that sounds" does some frames. Right now he's getting busy doing a lot of repair work for a couple the river outfitters in town. look up Engle custom fab there is a facebook page. one pic of a super puma or super duper puma raft frame and some pics of the most beautiful sweep boat frame i have ever laid eyes on. looks like your in Boise so not a short trip by any means but you could hit some rivers along the way.


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## GeoRon (Jun 24, 2015)

As I said, take what you can get. A quality DRE perfect purpose frame would have been a drive or shipping. Best of luck.

There are several whack offs of DRE frames built on the east and west slope of colorado to consider.,


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## Utah78 (Apr 28, 2018)

Last year was my first season with a Super Puma. We ran it on a 6 day main fork Salmon with a DRE frame that was 54 inches wide and 68 inches long (this is the size of frame that DRE recommends for the Super Puma) and 8.5 foot oars. The setup felt perfect to me for oar length as far as gearing and maneuverability. A few weeks earlier we took it down Alpine Canyon on the snake with 8 foot oars and that felt fine too, but the 8.5 foot felt much better. On the Salmon we used my friends Yeti 65 as the oarsman's seat and it was perfect, and a Canyon Cooler 55 as the front seat. 

Fun stuff. I mostly row the Aire 143R and my wife rowed the Super Puma, but whenever I switch and oar the Super Puma I feel like I am flying around on that thing.


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## CENoCo (Jan 26, 2021)

I ran a super puma for many years on small water. It’s a grease boat and is awesome. My two cents is to go with as long as rails as possible. Mine were 78” and allowed me to trim the boat well for varying loads and maximize storage options. The frame was a nrs.


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## carvedog (May 11, 2005)

Utah78 said:


> We ran it on a 6 day main fork Salmon....


The Main is not a fork. Or a spoon or knife for that matter.


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## Utah78 (Apr 28, 2018)

carvedog said:


> The Main is not a fork. Or a spoon or knife for that matter.


My bad, you are right. Its not even a spork.


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## IDriverRunner (Aug 18, 2015)

Thank you all for your helpful replies and suggestions! I would love a custom frame but since I don't really know how I want the boxes and gear arranged yet I'll probably end up going with a pieced together NRS frame for now. I picked up some 8.5' oars last week at Cascade River Gear for 10% off. Now onto some pictures (since everyone loves pictures, right?!:









Here is the large box that was delivered! Let the happiness begin!









Everything was neatly packaged inside.









The boat, floor, 2 thwarts, and the patch kit.









Rolled out for the first time.









Inflated enough to hold it's shape.









Flipped over and floor suspended with straps to help with the lacing. The boat came with white rope, but I like to be different. I used grey rope to lace in the floor. No one will ever know it's there... except all of us.









Floor laced in. Not hard and only mildly time consuming. It maybe took about 45 minutes?









Flipped back over.

Next up: Even though I primarily purchased this to turn into a low water Middle Fork boat I will also use it to have a good time on the Main Payette (or are we calling it "The Spork" now??). I will be laying out and installing thwarts later today. I have a decent system that I use on my 156R using carabiners and Sharpie'd straps to make future removing and installing thwarts a breeze. I'll try to document that as I go along. After thwarts? Figuring out and building my frame!!


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## IDriverRunner (Aug 18, 2015)

I installed the locking carabiners in the lacing for the thwarts.









Thwarts have been installed and the straps have all been marked with a Sharpie. Now I can pull them out and install them back in the exact same location with ease.


Next up: Perimeter line (3/4" PolyPro rope) and eventually NRS frame. I don't have all the pieces I need yet and some of the crossbars are sold out locally in the size I need. I'll probably end up buying what I can cutting them to size. I also need to track down a small drybox to sit on. Does anyone have any leads on a small (maybe 30" wide) box? How decent are Frontier Play boxes? Or, do I need to fork out $500+ for a box that will fit this?


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## gnarsify (Oct 5, 2020)

IDriverRunner said:


> How decent are Frontier Play boxes? Or, do I need to fork out $500+ for a box that will fit this?


You get what you pay for? They're decent for a chinese made box. I know several folks who have used them for years and I think a couple had to get some cracks welded after several seasons of heavy use. My box seems decently made and haven't had any issues with it and planning on getting a second this year. If you temper expectations I think they are worth it.


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## IDriverRunner (Aug 18, 2015)

gnarsify said:


> You get what you pay for? They're decent for a chinese made box. I know several folks who have used them for years and I think a couple had to get some cracks welded after several seasons of heavy use. My box seems decently made and haven't had any issues with it and planning on getting a second this year. If you temper expectations I think they are worth it.


Thank you for the feedback! I ended up getting a River Rat dry box from Cascade River Gear this morning. I believe they are made in Oregon. It's a true 30" box so it'll be a tight fit but will maximize what little space there is between the tubes. Sometime when I feel more ambitious I'll pick up some material from AIRE and glue it on the inside of the tubes to act as a chafe strip between the box and the boat.


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## Wallrat (Jan 19, 2021)

carvedog said:


> The Main is not a fork. Or a spoon or knife for that matter.


Uhh, sorry, but the Main Salmon is clearly a fork...of the Columbia.


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## IDriverRunner (Aug 18, 2015)

I picked up some NRS frame materials today. Naturally, the sizes I needed were not in stock and no time frame on when they would be, so I got what I could. The foot bar was the only thing that was the size I needed. As seen, the crossbars and rails were all too long and needed to be cut down.









Here is the progress after the crossbars were cut down to size. Everything is just loosely siting in place while I figure out spacing. Once I get that dialed in I'll cut the railings down to size. 78" rails are too long due to the rocker of the boat. I still need to get that damn perimeter line installed also. I don't know why I keep putting that off..


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## check (Apr 26, 2007)

Beautiful job! After you cut the tubes how did you drill the holes for the LoPro attachment bolts? Thanks.


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## codycleve (Mar 26, 2012)

Not sure how he did it but when I have done it in the past I used this jig and a drill press. https://www.amazon.com/Self-centeri...keywords=pipe+drill+jig&qid=1617416665&sr=8-3


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## IDriverRunner (Aug 18, 2015)

check said:


> Beautiful job! After you cut the tubes how did you drill the holes for the LoPro attachment bolts? Thanks.


A drill press and the jig in that link would have been nice!

The process I used was pretty simple. I left one LoPro still installed on the newly cut length of pipe and laid it on the flat garage floor upside down (upside down so the LoPro will prevent the pipe from rolling). Then line up the second LoPro (also upside down) on the outside of the pipe. Stick a pencil through the LoPro fitting to make a mark on the pipe. The I used a hammer and punch on the marked pipe so the drill bit would wander. I drilled out one hole, put the LoPro fitting inside the pipe, then drilled through the pipe again, this time using the LoPro to guide the bit through the other end of the pipe. It was a pretty easy process and I am pleased with the results.


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## Inoturtle (Feb 13, 2021)

Following this thread is making me crave some whitewater. Good looking build.


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## gnarsify (Oct 5, 2020)

IDriverRunner said:


> Thank you for the feedback! I ended up getting a River Rat dry box from Cascade River Gear this morning. I believe they are made in Oregon. It's a true 30" box so it'll be a tight fit but will maximize what little space there is between the tubes.


That River Rat box looks sweet, but my wallet is glad I didn't find it before the FrontierPlay. Might have to save up a little extra and get one as my second box.


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## NativeDiver (Jun 7, 2017)

gnarsify said:


> You get what you pay for? They're decent for a chinese made box. I know several folks who have used them for years and I think a couple had to get some cracks welded after several seasons of heavy use. My box seems decently made and haven't had any issues with it and planning on getting a second this year. If you temper expectations I think they are worth it.


We have used a 36" one for years. I was very suspect at first, but it has held up REALLY well.


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## IDriverRunner (Aug 18, 2015)

gnarsify said:


> That River Rat box looks sweet, but my wallet is glad I didn't find it before the FrontierPlay. Might have to save up a little extra and get one as my second box.


The River Rat is solid but very pricey. Buy once cry once, right?? (Full disclosure: I am still crying)


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## kayakingphotog (May 25, 2007)

Wallrat said:


> Uhh, sorry, but the Main Salmon is clearly a fork...of the Columbia.


Ummm actually you are both wrong...the Main is a fork of the Snake which is a fork of the Columbia......which is a fork of the.......


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## IDriverRunner (Aug 18, 2015)

Small update. Today was mildly productive, I installed:
1) 8" oar mounts w/ Cobra oar locks
2) Two sidebags in the captains bay
3) 1.5” straps from the raft to the D-Rings
4) X-Small Pacific River bag from CRG (I have a much bigger one on my 156R and absolutely love it!)
5) NRS Adjustable Cooler Mount for my cooler

Still need to do:
1) Install perimeter line
2) Waiting on a back-ordered NRS Flip Seat Mount for my seat above the dry box
3) Waiting on a back-ordered NRS Universal seat mount and NRS Crossbar for a front passenger seat in front of the cooler
4) Cut the rails down to size after the back-ordered parts arrive

It should be a fun little boat!


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## Inoturtle (Feb 13, 2021)

If you don't mind, when you are all done, would you post an all in cost? I know prices fluctuate over time and location but I would appreciate a real world example cost to help myself budget for my dream boat in the future. I have built dream boat wish lists on the nrs website which come out to around 6k. Just wondering how realistic that is after an actual boat build.


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## IDriverRunner (Aug 18, 2015)

Inoturtle said:


> If you don't mind, when you are all done, would you post an all in cost? I know prices fluctuate over time and location but I would appreciate a real world example cost to help myself budget for my dream boat in the future. I have built dream boat wish lists on the nrs website which come out to around 6k. Just wondering how realistic that is after an actual boat build.


I can probably help with that. Not sure about the etiquette of posting prices here (I did get some stuff at a discount and/or on sale, so maybe I can just put current retail prices?). So are you looking for a breakdown of the entire build when I'm done?


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## Inoturtle (Feb 13, 2021)

No break down at all. Just a ball park. To the closest 1000 if that's acceptable with the buzz.


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## SpoonMan (Dec 26, 2017)

Nice looking rig! I have one just like it minus the river rat box but with added running boards and an anchor system.

I'd be courious how your oar length geometry with the 8" oar stands and sitting on the drybox is feeling for you. I'm using 8' oars and 10" stands, and my seat is on a crossbar. Mine rows great and was a giant leap forward from where I started with 6" stands. It was kind of tricky, at least for me, to get right on that narrow little boat. 

I just got an XS Pacific river bag for a super puma I recently acquired. I'm quite impressed with it.


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## SpoonMan (Dec 26, 2017)




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## SpoonMan (Dec 26, 2017)

Sorry. For some reason I had it in my mind that you were rolling a plain old puma. Super puma, I'm feeling like shorter oar risers will be better. I'm gonna try 6" but betting I'll need 8".


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## Endopotential (May 14, 2019)

Those are some beautiful side running boards, or whatever they are called.
Wood with black paint? How are you planning on attaching it to the frame, just a bunch of cam straps?
I'm in the final phase of fashioning my own set, so would love any thoughts or tips.


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## IDriverRunner (Aug 18, 2015)

Well, I finally pulled every back off the boat and got the perimeter line on. It took half a dozen tries of deflating the boat/retying/inflating the boat to get the tension just the way I want it. The end result is that the line is TIGHT but still allows the boat to be fully inflated. I used 3/4" solid braid multi-filament polypropylene from Amazon. I have the same stuff on my 156R and had no issues with it. I haven't cut any excess off yet, but will. It makes a nice bow line. Does anyone else do that too? If so, how much material do you leave?










This is knot that I used. I don't know the name of it. When I purchased my 156R back in 2012 the nice people at Aire (actually, it was Idaho River Sports when they had a second location at the AIRE factory) they gave me this short section of rope with the knot that they recommended.

Loose:









Tight:


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## Inoturtle (Feb 13, 2021)

I was taught this as a lovers knot when I made jewelry. Easy way to slip on a bracelet or necklace and still be able to tighten it down easily to a preferred fit. Makes good sense for a perimeter line.


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## gnarsify (Oct 5, 2020)

I've always known that knot as a double fisherman's knot. Very handy knot to know


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## SherpaDave (Dec 28, 2017)

I have a 30” River Rat dry box for my Spider. I’m happy with it.


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## SherpaDave (Dec 28, 2017)

check said:


> Beautiful job! After you cut the tubes how did you drill the holes for the LoPro attachment bolts? Thanks.


I’ve cut crossbars several times. I cut the vat then mount it on the boat having lined up the location of the LoPro hole. I start with a very small bit then progressively increase. The lLoPro hole acts as a guide. It’s not necessarily exact but it’s been successful so far.


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## SherpaDave (Dec 28, 2017)

IDriverRunner said:


> Small update. Today was mildly productive, I installed:
> 
> 2) Two sidebars in the captains bay


I’m interested how you like those side bags. I’ve seen them online and wondered how much they end up holding.


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## IDriverRunner (Aug 18, 2015)

SherpaDave said:


> I’m interested how you like those side bags. I’ve seen them online and wondered how much they end up holding.


I really like them. I have had them on my other boat for years. They have a mesh bottom and close with just a standard zipper, so they are not a waterproof bag, but they sure are convenient to stash things that you might need in a hurry (splash jacket, river map, wrench, straps, beers, etc). Just got to make sure you have a bay that is at least 24" wide for them to fit in.


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## jpurkiss (May 1, 2017)

IDriverRunner said:


> NRS Universal seat mount and NRS Crossbar


Why the universal seat mount and crossbar? Is the cooler too close for the oars? I just got my super puma delivered today and I am doing a similar build in the Boise area. Supplies are a bitch to come by.


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## IDriverRunner (Aug 18, 2015)

jpurkiss said:


> Why the universal seat mount and crossbar? Is the cooler too close for the oars? I just got my super puma delivered today and I am doing a similar build in the Boise area. Supplies are a bitch to come by.


Exactly. If the passenger was on the cooler I'd be punching them in the back with the oars.

Supplies are very hard to come by right now! I've been waiting for my flip seat mount for over a month and I found out yesterday that NRS is expecting to get 200-300 the first week of June... and I am #281 on the backorder list (out of 403)! Doubting I'll get mine in June..

Having said that, I am now planning on reclaming my garage space for awhile and will be putting this raft away for awhile. If you want to come by and check it out this afternoon/evening shoot me a message and I'll give you my address.


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## perryazevedo (Dec 1, 2021)

@IDriverRunner & @gnarsify — Looking into dry box options for my Super Duper Puma. Now that you've both had your 30" for a while, what are your thoughts on any rubbing or possible damage from such a tight fit?

I would like to get a 30" from Cascade, but I saw that Mad Cow makes a 28" dry box. If you had to do it over, would you go down to the 28" or stick with the 30"?


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## IDriverRunner (Aug 18, 2015)

It's only been out once, but I have no signs of wear with the 30". If I were to do it over I definitely would go with the same size again. If it eventually started to show wear I'd just glue some sacrificial material on the boat where it was rubbing (had to do that on my 156R because the box wasn't a tight fit so it actually moves and rubs against the tubes more).


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

perryazevedo said:


> @IDriverRunner & @gnarsify — Looking into dry box options for my Super Duper Puma. Now that you've both had your 30" for a while, what are your thoughts on any rubbing or possible damage from such a tight fit?
> 
> I would like to get a 30" from Cascade, but I saw that Mad Cow makes a 28" dry box. If you had to do it over, would you go down to the 28" or stick with the 30"?


given flows this year, the thread title sure doesn't fit!!! haha 😂

(but it was a good old post to bump for a legit drybox fit question, @perryazevedo!)


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## perryazevedo (Dec 1, 2021)

MT4Runner said:


> given flows this year, the thread title sure doesn't fit!!! haha 😂
> 
> (but it was a good old post to bump for a legit drybox fit question, @perryazevedo!)


LOL! For sure on the thread title. Hopefully, the later snow and extra rain we've been getting will translate to a reduced fire season this year.

As an update to my question above, I actually talked to Todd ad Mad Cow. He strongly advised not letting the boxes rub up on the raft sides for rafts like the AIRE Puma series. So, I decided to go ahead and go with their 28" wide box.


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## IDriverRunner (Aug 18, 2015)

perryazevedo said:


> LOL! For sure on the thread title. Hopefully, the later snow and extra rain we've been getting will translate to a reduced fire season this year.
> 
> As an update to my question above, I actually talked to Todd ad Mad Cow. He strongly advised not letting the boxes rub up on the raft sides for rafts like the AIRE Puma series. So, I decided to go ahead and go with their 28" wide box.


I would agree with Todd. Rubbing was/is the issue with that drybox in my 156, because it was just wide enough to touch the tubes in spots. The 30" in the Super Puma is basically wedged between the tubes (no constant rubbing).


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## IDriverRunner (Aug 18, 2015)

Last fall I had Stitches N Stuff make me a custom size drop bag for the front bay of the Super Puma. They did a great job on it and it works perfectly! Highly recommend them.

Over this last week I have been wanting something different upfront so I bought some HDPE and SeaDek to make myself a drop bag cover. I drilled and routed holes for the straps to secure it, notches for the cooler sling, and hand holds if I ever had a passenger up front. It also is easily removable and and span between to roll-a-tables for more kitchen space and somewhere to cook on.

Is it perfect? No.

Am I happy with the outcome? Yes

I was hoping to have it on the Middle Fork again next month, but the Ramshorn/wood situation is what is. So, looks like we are shifting over and doing the Main Salmon instead. Can’t wait!


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## jbLaramie (Feb 1, 2021)

I got to row this boat for a skosh during a rescue on a trip about a month ago. It's super fun, great setup. Have fun on the main IDriverrunner!


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## taylorkoenigtk (12 mo ago)

Been meaning to post here for awhile and give IDriverRunner a shoutout for the inspiration in building my SP setup last year - couldn't have done it without this thread and it's been nothing but a good time so far with this raft! Didn't get her on low water MF but the Main was an experience I'll never forget, looking forward to more this upcoming season!


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## IDriverRunner (Aug 18, 2015)

taylorkoenigtk said:


> Been meaning to post here for awhile and give IDriverRunner a shoutout for the inspiration in building my SP setup last year - couldn't have done it without this thread and it's been nothing but a good time so far with this raft! Didn't get her on low water MF but the Main was an experience I'll never forget, looking forward to more this upcoming season!
> 
> View attachment 84272
> View attachment 84273
> View attachment 84274


Nicely done! If you ever score a low water permit and need another boat in the group please don't hesitate to ask! These boats are a blast and I had a great time with mine on the Main in September.


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## taylorkoenigtk (12 mo ago)

IDriverRunner said:


> Nicely done! If you ever score a low water permit and need another boat in the group please don't hesitate to ask! These boats are a blast and I had a great time with mine on the Main in September.


Absolutely man, right back at ya!


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## dwjohnson (Mar 1, 2020)

IDriverRunner said:


> Thank you all for your helpful replies and suggestions! I would love a custom frame but since I don't really know how I want the boxes and gear arranged yet I'll probably end up going with a pieced together NRS frame for now. I picked up some 8.5' oars last week at Cascade River Gear for 10% off. Now onto some pictures (since everyone loves pictures, right?!:
> 
> View attachment 64229
> 
> ...


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## dwjohnson (Mar 1, 2020)

How do you attach thwarts with the caribeaners? Do you use the straps or d rings as attachment points? I have always wanted a more efficient way to swap out thwarts for frame depending on what I'm doing for the day r6 vs rowing on my 156R & now my puma for fishing frame or R2ing. Cheers on the new boat!


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## IDriverRunner (Aug 18, 2015)

dwjohnson said:


> How do you attach thwarts with the caribeaners? Do you use the straps or d rings as attachment points? I have always wanted a more efficient way to swap out thwarts for frame depending on what I'm doing for the day r6 vs rowing on my 156R & now my puma for fishing frame or R2ing. Cheers on the new boat!


Yeah, I have straps that go from the thwarts down to the carabiners. The carabiners dont come out so the thwarts go in/come out exactly the same everytime. I also marked on the straps exactly how far through the buckles they need to go. I have this setup the same on my 156R and Super Puma. It makes reinstalling the thwarts stupid easy. haha


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