# Rafts and wind



## peterk1234 (Feb 27, 2021)

Hi all. Continuing to learn about drift boats and rafts. While I am certain that a drift will be the best boat for fishing the Yellowstone and similar rivers, I keep leaning toward the versatility of rafts. The bulk of the time we will use the boat for fishing, but I can see us going out regularly as a family of four adults and just paddling away. 

One of my concerns is the wind that rips through the Yellowstone, especially in Livingston where we will be eventually living. How much of a problem is a raft in wind, and is a drift that much better? I also need to consider that this is something we will own for a long time, and my wife and I are in our fifties. I am not worried as much about me but I want my wife to be able to handle a boat as well so I can fish. 

While I am at it, is a drift that much easier to hold or slow its drift n a current? I am having a heck of a time finding out things like this online. Would appreciate advice and some good reading resources as well. 

Thanks

Pete


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## okieboater (Oct 19, 2004)

try this for a start for information

lots of experience rowing rafts, only rowed a bud's drift boat a few times on class 2 / 3 runs

My comparison is a drift boat reminds me of a motorcycle (easy to turn, fun to row and works best lightly loaded). rafts remind me of a pickup truck (will turn but not like a drift boat, fun to row and can carry a load). Based on my limited knowledge of a drift boat. I would buy the raft for all around fishing and tripping. In a ideal world a person would have both. (I am dreaming here).









Blog - Drift Boat vs Raft | Silver Bow Fly Shop


Raft vs Drift Boat for river like the Spokane, Coeur d'Alene, St. Joe is always an interesting topic of discussion.




www.silverbowflyshop.com


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## jamesthomas (Sep 12, 2010)

A drift boat is way easier to slow down to match the speed of your bugs. I have a 16 ft cat and it works well but a drift boat is vastly superior. A raft or cat is much more forgiving meaning that if you hit a rock you just kind of bounce off, the impact is cushioned and you don’t normally do any damage. In a hard boat you if you hit something you hit hard and I would guess that damage could result although most fiberglass boats hulls like Clackacrafts and Hyde’s carry a really strong warranty. Don’t know about aluminum boats. Tough decision, good luck.


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## jamesthomas (Sep 12, 2010)

Any boat becomes a handful on a windy day. There have been numerous times when I have been blown right into the bank and there is not a hell of a lot you can do except wait for the gust to drop off.


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## jgrebe (Jan 16, 2010)

If wind is a major concern stay away from cats. I've had one 25 years, so it's not like I don't like them it's just they are wind pigs. Between the raft and a drift boat, I think the others are correct. A raft will be more forgiving and multi-functional, a drift boat far superior for maneuverability and holding in a current - can even anchor in fairly swift water (but keep a knife handy). Might look at one of those purpose built fishing rafts with a raised "tunnel" floor. Kind of a hybrid approach. A raft is the best single boat quiver or you can do like me and get one of each haha


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## zbaird (Oct 11, 2003)

For a beginner/ novice a raft will have a much bigger forgiveness margin. Screw up in a drifty, and you can sink them pretty quick even in easy water. Anything sucks to row in the wind.


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## peterk1234 (Feb 27, 2021)

Thank you guys. All great info. Good to know that it is not necessarily a game changer having a drift boat when the wind kicks up. I am glad the drift guys suffer as well


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## jamesthomas (Sep 12, 2010)

Everyone suffers in the wind. If your fishing and trying to get a good drift... just give up and pull over and have a cold beverage. Down stream wind is ok cause your bugs just sail out there but the guy on the sticks has to work hard not to overrun the drift. Upstream wind... forgetaboutit.


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## jamesthomas (Sep 12, 2010)

Zach is right. Drift boats sink easy. A few years back we were fishing the green A section and floated over a white thing on the bottom of the river just downstream from little steamboat. Asked about it at the fly shop that night and some dude with no experience at all and a brand new 7+k Hyde drift boat went sideways into the rock. The boat did what all boats do when pinned, downstream side goes way up up stream side goes down. In a drift boat that means the stream side of the boat scoops in water and the boat turns turtle and sinks. I’m sure it happened appallingly fast. Rafts don’t sink. The dude was responsible for all salvage expense. They had to get the Bureau of wreck to drop the flow to minimums and a diver hooked a cable to it and they winched it out. Rumor has it that it did not come out in one piece.


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## [email protected] (Jun 1, 2010)

I own and row, all three, a raft, a cat and a drift boat. If you want a boat to use almost always for fishing a drift boat is far better choice. 5 minutes of prep 1 minute to launch, 2-3 minutes to load on trailer by myself. Easy to hold in a good hole, row up stream to make a second pass, anchors in a flowing water and stays there. The ease of getting on the water and off is huge. The only time I fish out of my raft or cat is on class 3-5 white water multi day raft trips. There is no one boat that does it all well scenario, just one boat that does it okay. A dory sucks in the wind a lot more than rafts or cats. They are so easy to row that they go where the wind goes. If you get a dory get a low side one they do better in the wind and are easier to get in and out of. All that said I have seen 2 drift boats sunk by newbies, so you have been forewarned once again.


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## zbaird (Oct 11, 2003)

The best drift boat sinking story I have is a buddy of mine. Very experienced rower, been rowing since he was a kid. On the maddi in MT. He was anchored up in some fairly good current (aqs far as aching goes) and the boat started swaying a little, no biggie. His buddy in the back of the boat freaked out and grabbed the anchor line. That pulled the back of the boat under, current ran it sideways and flipped them in an instant. All three were ejected and the fairly new Hyde tumbled down the riverbed with the anchor dragging, much $$ gear was lost and the boat was not in one piece. So, even a great rower on the sticks of a drifty can't always keep it upright if your passenger is a numnuts.


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## jsheglund (Feb 20, 2021)

zbaird said:


> The best drift boat sinking story I have is a buddy of mine. Very experienced rower, been rowing since he was a kid. On the maddi in MT. He was anchored up in some fairly good current (aqs far as aching goes) and the boat started swaying a little, no biggie. His buddy in the back of the boat freaked out and grabbed the anchor line. That pulled the back of the boat under, current ran it sideways and flipped them in an instant. All three were ejected and the fairly new Hyde tumbled down the riverbed with the anchor dragging, much $$ gear was lost and the boat was not in one piece. So, even a great rower on the sticks of a drifty can't always keep it upright if your passenger is a numnuts.


This is why I have oar rights on my driftboat. They are up the shaft where I don't use them while rowing, but on anchor I let the oars slip down and lock in a vertical position, parallel to the current to act as rudders. This eliminates that sway that will walk an anchor downstream or swing a boat into trouble.


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## [email protected] (Jun 1, 2010)

zbaird said:


> The best drift boat sinking story I have is a buddy of mine. Very experienced rower, been rowing since he was a kid. On the maddi in MT. He was anchored up in some fairly good current (aqs far as aching goes) and the boat started swaying a little, no biggie. His buddy in the back of the boat freaked out and grabbed the anchor line. That pulled the back of the boat under, current ran it sideways and flipped them in an instant. All three were ejected and the fairly new Hyde tumbled down the riverbed with the anchor dragging, much $$ gear was lost and the boat was not in one piece. So, even a great rower on the sticks of a drifty can't always keep it upright if your passenger is a numnuts.


My story is on the green A section flaming gorge near Little hole takeout at midnight. We fished until we ran out of flying ant imitations. Rowing out in the dark the boat got sluggish, than I heard running water, looked down and it was half full of water. My numnuts passenger in the back had kicked out the plug and not noticed the column of water shooting up between his legs. I yelled plug the hole. He started looking for the plug in a foot of water at night (hopeless). I said cover the hole, he did and we made it to little hole ramp (barely). I did not fish with him much after that.


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## peterk1234 (Feb 27, 2021)

Okay, you guys convinced me. Raft it is. Now I just have to figure out If I go with an NRS Otter or the supposedly nimble Aire Super Duper Puma. Does the SDP row that much better than other rafts of a wider girth?


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## jamesthomas (Sep 12, 2010)

Yep, numb nuts generally don’t belong on the river.


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## cnalder (Jul 7, 2016)

peterk1234 said:


> Okay, you guys convinced me. Raft it is. Now I just have to figure out If I go with an NRS Otter or the supposedly nimble Aire Super Duper Puma. Does the SDP row that much better than other rafts of a wider girth?


A super puma is the sports car of rafts. It’s agile but is also less stable than a regular raft. You see a lot of them set up with fishing frames. Probably the closest thing made of rubber/pvc to resemble a drift boat. Enjoy


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

zbaird said:


> The best drift boat sinking story I have is a buddy of mine.
> His buddy in the back of the boat freaked out and grabbed the anchor line.
> All three were ejected and the fairly new Hyde tumbled down the riverbed with the anchor dragging, much $$ gear was lost and the boat was not in one piece.


I'll bet $20 that story ended like this one
vvv



[email protected] said:


> I did not fish with him much after that.


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## zbaird (Oct 11, 2003)

They were longtime buddies, he still fishes with him, in a raft now tho. Drifty was never replaced. Pretty sure that was the first time he had him on the boat. Dude definitely still gets shit about it.

PM me for address to send the 20, LOL.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

I'm good for it, Paypal work?


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## okieboater (Oct 19, 2004)

My drift boat flip story happened on a June Smith River MT Float a couple years past.

We were in camp cooking dinner when a gent walked into our camp.

Said he and two other fishing buds were doing just fine till their drift boat some how ran into one of the sheer rock banks pretty common on the Smith. Boat turned sideways water came rushing in and all three were in the water. All three somehow made it to shore but every piece of gear was lost. Fishing and camp gear all gone. Wearing only the clothes they had on they walked to the next camp which was just above ours. The folks in that camp doubled up and they did have a tent to spend the night in. This gent asked if we had space to help get them down to Heaven on Earth Ranch where they would hire a ride out. We did. Our group had plenty of raft space. I was on the raft this gent rode down to the ranch. The entire story was scary. He said it all happened in a split second, he had on waders and immediately went in over his head. Fortunately, shore was very close and he somehow made it to shore as did his two buds.

Bottom line, drift boats with low sides turned sideway to the current especially with a full load of people and gear can be tippy.


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## okieboater (Oct 19, 2004)

Forgot, I think they found a cooler. The boat was found severely wrapped on a rock and the rangers took care of it some days after the accident.


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## [email protected] (Jun 1, 2010)

okieboater said:


> Forgot, I think they found a cooler. The boat was found severely wrapped on a rock and the rangers took care of it some days after the accident.


I remember some other things. This was one of the two I saw a drift boat sunk that I mentioned in a earlier post. It was not their boat they had borrowed it from a friend and had not rowed before. Watched them at one point a day before and suggested they wear their life jackets and got a why? We were not all that surprised to see them boat less.
I believe we met up with them at again out the takeout trying to change a flat tire with no lug wrench or jack, can not remember which they did not have.........................Numnuts!!


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## Baetis (Apr 1, 2014)

Hmmm. Wondering if that was the same boat we saw pinned against a rock underwater a couple years ago in July?


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## DarrylH (Mar 10, 2015)

jamesthomas said:


> Zach is right. Drift boats sink easy. A few years back we were fishing the green A section and floated over a white thing on the bottom of the river just downstream from little steamboat. Asked about it at the fly shop that night and some dude with no experience at all and a brand new 7+k Hyde drift boat went sideways into the rock. The boat did what all boats do when pinned, downstream side goes way up up stream side goes down. In a drift boat that means the stream side of the boat scoops in water and the boat turns turtle and sinks. I’m sure it happened appallingly fast. Rafts don’t sink. The dude was responsible for all salvage expense. They had to get the Bureau of wreck to drop the flow to minimums and a diver hooked a cable to it and they winched it out. Rumor has it that it did not come out in one piece.


James' story has another witness: I was on the Green and saw the (almost) end of that. We came around the corner in my NRS E-160 and I saw a bunch of guys bunched river right working hard - then I saw a long cable stretched from the bank out into just past the middle of the river. Scared the crap out of me - it was the perfect boat/neck shredder - too low to go under, too high to go over. I started rowing hard left - when I got closer I saw the white hull of the drift boat completely submerged. They had a come-along tied to a tree - and a LOT of tension on the cable, wrenching away. The thought of that cable snapping simply added to my apprehension. The river was running pretty full, not low at all. I cleared on the left - I didn't see the boat come out - it was really stuck - that much force certainly didn't end well.

Peter - Sorry, you get all of these old boaters together we start telling stories... May I suggest you try renting a raft or two to get a flavor what you like and can handle. It's a truly infectious disease that we happily 'suffer' from. Welcome!
Darryl
SLC


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## Taku (Apr 7, 2016)

Have had rafts pretty continuously for about 30 years - for the reasons others have stated mainly for whitewater trips, rocky fishing rivers and because my wife really did not like banging a glass drift boat on rocks. Finally bought a 30 year old wood skiff a few years ago that needed some repair, it had previously been through a wreck when owned by a fishing guide was the story. Finally got the leaks and rotten wood taken care of and it is nice to have for flat water and ready to go in minutes. Both are great Pete, just need to know how to row and when to take which boat on the stretch of water you will be on. Been pushed back upriver in both boats by the wind, get a canoe or kayaks if you want a boat that can make some bit of headway against strong winds - or break out the scotch.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

DarrylH said:


> We came around the corner in my NRS E-160 and I saw a bunch of guys bunched river right working hard - then I saw a long cable stretched from the bank out into just past the middle of the river. Scared the crap out of me - it was the perfect boat/neck shredder - too low to go under, too high to go over. I started rowing hard left - when I got closer I saw the white hull of the drift boat completely submerged. They had a come-along tied to a tree - and a LOT of tension on the cable, wrenching away. The thought of that cable snapping simply added to my apprehension. The river was running pretty full, not low at all. I cleared on the left


Good story showing the reason to designate an upriver safety person.




Taku said:


> it is nice to have for flat water and ready to go in minutes. Both are great Pete, just need to know how to row and when to take which boat on the stretch of water you will be on.


Awesome for the shoulder seasons to keep your feet dry.


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## jamesthomas (Sep 12, 2010)

Plus a good drift boat just rows so sweet. I have rowed 2 briefly, a Hog Island. Which is aptly named cause that pig had to weigh 400 lbs easy and a Boulder Boat which was a joy. On a completely different level to compared to my 16 foot cat. I rowed upstream from the middle of secret riffle on the A section of the green. Had to zig zag a bit but could have gone the whole way. Of course it was just me in the boat too. Still I was blown away. That hard chine really bites into the river so tracking across the river seemed almost effortless. I’ve wanted a drifty ever since.


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## Montet202 (Aug 22, 2020)

Drift boats in wind only need a little ballast. Pull a plug, add some water. Wind is no longer an issue. And it's a ton of fun rowing easily down the Yellowstone watching others struggle.


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