# Basic Questions



## ob1coby (Jul 25, 2013)

I'm probably going to step on some peepee's here and get yelled at but I'll say it anyway. IMO you will not find solitude in the outdoor scene anymore. Most especially in Colorado. Everyone and their mother and their dog and their mothers dog and their sisters-in-law and their old buddy from back in the day and that guy from down the street is moving to Colorado! I was raised in the San Luis Valley. The San Juan and Sangre De Cristo used to be some of the most remote and tranquil ranges in the US but now, even if you go there on the least expecting weekends you will find paved parking lots packed full of vehicles. The mountains are basically an amusement park now. And with the states getting in on how popular it is as a revenue source it will only get worse. Can't blame people. The mountains are the best so I gave up on solitude years ago. The rafting scene is no exception. Go through this forum and look at how many "What raft to buy for a newbie" post there are. 

That said, On a five day Deso trip we only saw one group of people. We saw them over and over again, but it was only one group. FWIW

FWIW.


----------



## DoStep (Jun 26, 2012)

While much of that is true, I generally don't have much trouble finding my solitude in the outdoors whether it be in the mtns or on the river. Just gotta know where to go and when. Summer can be trying, but I've been spoiled my whole life, so no complaints here. If it gets to be too much, one can always just stay home.


----------



## lmyers (Jun 10, 2008)

ob1coby said:


> I'm probably going to step on some peepee's here and get yelled at but I'll say it anyway. IMO you will not find solitude in the outdoor scene anymore. Most especially in Colorado. Everyone and their mother and their dog and their mothers dog and their sisters-in-law and their old buddy from back in the day and that guy from down the street is moving to Colorado! I was raised in the San Luis Valley. The San Juan and Sangre De Cristo used to be some of the most remote and tranquil ranges in the US but now, even if you go there on the least expecting weekends you will find paved parking lots packed full of vehicles. The mountains are basically an amusement park now. And with the states getting in on how popular it is as a revenue source it will only get worse. Can't blame people. The mountains are the best so I gave up on solitude years ago. The rafting scene is no exception. Go through this forum and look at how many "What raft to buy for a newbie" post there are.
> 
> That said, On a five day Deso trip we only saw one group of people. We saw them over and over again, but it was only one group. FWIW
> 
> FWIW.


Funny you say that. While in principal I agree, I have a ton of days a year on the Ark (probably the most popular river in the state) where me and whomever I am paddling with see no one...but I felt like there were a lot of people (like 10+ groups) on Deso the one time I ran it...

Beyond the rivers don't climb a 14'er mid summer, and don't ski on the weekends if you are trying to avoid crowds.


----------



## iceclimb (Apr 24, 2013)

And get up earlier. Been out on some super popular 14ers and really crowded River stretches lately. Like Grizzly to Two Rivers, don't see many folks at 6 AM floats, even on the weekend. 


Sent from my iPhone using Mountain Buzz


----------



## Whetstone (May 17, 2013)

Sad


----------



## Medic-5150 (Feb 15, 2010)

Everything you guys said sounds about normal...We are morning people for sure. We only climb fourteeners if it's overnight or for a sunrise at the summit. We generally stay away from the fourteeners as a whole though. 

It sounds like if we are up an at 'em it's not too bad. The river is generally shared with at least one other group during the day, my big thing is not camping right next to them at night.

Would anyone be interested in sharing some insight on kayaking? I know very little about kayak design and where a good place to start is.

Thanks


----------



## Ken Vanatta (May 29, 2004)

Medic-5150 said:


> Everything you guys said sounds about normal...We are morning people for sure. We only climb fourteeners if it's overnight or for a sunrise at the summit. We generally stay away from the fourteeners as a whole though.
> 
> It sounds like if we are up an at 'em it's not too bad. The river is generally shared with at least one other group during the day, my big thing is not camping right next to them at night.
> 
> ...


 First, complete solitude can be uncertain in a growing number and prosperous society. Nevertheless, while you may not have things all to yourself, you can still enjoy sharing many places with relatively few people around. As for where it might be most possible, the river is often one of the best locations to find fewer users and some feeling of solitude.

As for kayaking, it is certainly one of the best recreational sports there is. However, it is not for everyone. Kayaking, like many others, is a risk sport. People do not breath well under water and rivers are powerful forces that don't necessarily let you easily say "Stop, I want out now". Still, with a definite respect for whitewater, education, and practice, kayaking can be an incredible activity to enjoy, feel alive with, be fulfilling, find some escape from civilization, solitude, and enjoy YHWH's creation. It is physically demanding and is a tremendous core workout. It is not a very good sport for overweight or out of shape people. However, the key to kayaking is learning to work with the river, not trying to over power it. Finesse and agility are favored. Women are often some of the most graceful and capable kayakers on the river. Although, combining strength generally increases one's success. Which, kayaking will definitely help develop strength. All in all, it can give great enjoyment ... or it can give you death (but so can other things). Which, the inability to get off the ride when it's gone bad is probably the main reason so many give the sport up early or never pursue it. As stated above, education and practice are key to success. 

Cheers!

Ken


----------



## Ken Vanatta (May 29, 2004)

Ken Vanatta said:


> First, complete solitude can be uncertain in a growing number and prosperous society. Nevertheless, while you may not have things all to yourself, you can still enjoy sharing many places with relatively few people around. As for where it might be most possible, the river is often one of the best locations to find fewer users and some feeling of solitude.
> 
> As for kayaking, it is certainly one of the best recreational sports there is. However, it is not for everyone. Kayaking, like many others, is a risk sport. People do not breath well under water and rivers are powerful forces that don't necessarily let you easily say "Stop, I want out now". Still, with a definite respect for whitewater, education, and practice, kayaking can be an incredible activity to enjoy, feel alive with, be fulfilling, find some escape from civilization, solitude, and enjoy YHWH's creation. It is physically demanding and is a tremendous core workout. It is not a very good sport for overweight or out of shape people. However, the key to kayaking is learning to work with the river, not trying to over power it. Finesse and agility are favored. Women are often some of the most graceful and capable kayakers on the river. Although, combining strength generally increases one's success. Which, kayaking will definitely help develop strength. All in all, it can give great enjoyment ... or it can give you death (but so can other things). Which, the inability to get off the ride when it's gone bad is probably the main reason so many give the sport up early or never pursue it. As stated above, education and practice are key to success.
> 
> ...


 Correction: Overweight is inaccurate. I'm probably overweight. Most American's probably are. Especially after celebrating July 4th. What would be more accurate is to say that an obese physique will generally be a substantial hindrance to anyone aspiring to accomplish class III, IV or V whitewater. The sport does require the ability to really crunch forward and twist. Achieving the ability to roll a kayak to upright one's self is essential to enjoying the sport. Also, having the ability to self rescue if one does swim is needed. Kayaking is not Disneyland. Your not on tracks engineered for your protection. Things can and will go wrong. It is a sport that, for whitewater in particular, demands an enjoyment for water, the ability to swim, and courage. Most people that do not possess these characteristics may attempt the sport, but usually abandon it after a bad experience. Which, is a great way to acquire slightly used boating gear cheap. That said, though, class I and II may fulfill their ambitions and enjoyment just fine. Even though they can still get in trouble in easy water.

I think it was William Neely who also described the sport something like,: "If you're the type that can enjoy a good car wreck, you might enjoy kayaking."  It is physically and mentally demanding, but can be so much fun. It does become addicting. Start boating early each season and boat often to get ready for high water and/or more challenging sections of rivers. Enrolling in kayaking lessons (i.e.: RMOC) would be recommended to get started.

Hope that helps you a little in deciding if you're up for it.

Cheers!

Ken


----------



## Roguelawyer (Apr 2, 2015)

I was one of those that got into kayaking a little then decided it wasn't all that for me. I just don't particularly like to go underwater. I thought I would love it as I generally love most adrenaline generating sports. Even after I was able to roll decently I always found it to be a really unpleasant, water up the nose sort of thing.

I would recommend finding a community college or small university nearby and checking into classes. They usually have classes and sometimes have boats you can use. That way you can get acquainted with the sport without spending a whole lot.

I would also say keep at it for a while. I have noticed that the learning curve can be a bit steep for some people.


----------



## Roguelawyer (Apr 2, 2015)

Oh . . . the one cool thing about kayaking is you get to drink the rafters beer.


----------



## openboat (Jul 13, 2004)

If you don't need whitewater and you want solitude, go out past Grand Junction and do an overnighter and run the Colorado from Loma to Whitewater through Horsethief and Ruby Canyons, but not now. Wait until well after Labor Day and go mid-week. You will go through some amazing scenery. For a day trip, do the Upper Colorado from Pumphouse to State Bridge, and you get a little whitewater (II) and a hot springs pool. Right now both stretches are circuses, but I've done both in the Fall when nobody else was ever seen.


----------

