# Stepping Up



## Blade&Shaft (May 23, 2009)

Do it!


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## lncoop (Sep 10, 2010)

LOL. I suspect you were looking for a little more than that although it's certainly a valid opinion. I'd add "but not too fast". Check out the Arkansas Canoe Club message board if you haven't already. There are some top notch boaters in your neck of the woods who love to help other boaters step it up. It's also a great place to find trips to join and just hang out. 
Arkansascanoeclub.com â€¢ Index page


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## callum.mcmahon711 (Nov 4, 2014)

Haha I live in NZ and I had to lie about where I'm from to join the forum. I've been paddling the same grade 3-3+ section for years experimenting and getting worked in shit and in the last year I've been paddling the Kaituna River which is 3-4. I'm just second guessing myself due to comments made by another paddler. I have been holding myself back due too school and petrol money which has stopped me from paddling other rivers. 
My best paddling buddies are telling me to just man up and I'll be fine it's just the odd comment which is worrying me.


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## lmyers (Jun 10, 2008)

Don't let anyone pressure you into running whitewater your not comfortable with. You know if your ready. I personally paddle conservative with the attitude that I want to maintain this level of kayaking for another 30 years...


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

Don't let peer pressure push you into running something you're not ready for.
Don't let the odd person hold you back from something you're ready for.

Find a III stretch that has some IV rapids, especially if its a roadside run where you can easily get out and aren't too committed if you're not ready. Get them dialed before you jump headfirst into a river that is solid IV.

I paddled the same III- river (MF Flathead) for 13 years with a few runs on a III+ a few hours away (Alberton Gorge) before I stepped up to a nearby big water IV (the Lochsa) six years ago.

A LOT of my friends run the Wild Mile on the Swan, which is a IV+/V- depending on who you ask, but the shallow, bony, creeky water terrifies me. I'll stick to the Lochsa.


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## Ninja_Nico (Mar 28, 2013)

While I was making the III to IV jump, I found that a familiar stretch of III was invaluable. Every time I took another lap, I kept going for tougher and tougher lines (catching hard eddys, trying to get around that one rock WAAY over there, making big ferries etc.). You can turn III into IV sometimes this way and when you miss, you're still in III so the consequences aren't as bad. When you finally make that jump, you'll find many of the lines in IV are the same as III. 

Scout everything that you can, figure out what the water is doing. Pick a line and if you miss it, figure out why. Was there a feature that you thought would do one thing but did another? Did you miss a stroke? When you asses lines and reflect on what you did successfully and what you did unsuccessfully, you'll progress much faster. Then, you'll eventually realize that water features in IV (and even V) are the same as III, just bigger, more technical, longer, more hazards, or what have you.


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## bystander (Jul 3, 2014)

I think Ninja_Nico has the right idea. At least this is the way I've been pushed to learn. I have only been through 2 seasons now with my brother, but we often go with an old school paddler who routinely does class 5 stuff, and he has pushed us to ferry, surf and eddy all the toughest lines he can find. It's quite a challenge, but you can learn a lot from it. Unfortunately, my brother doesn't want to do class 4-5 rapids due to risks, but his friend keeps saying we are ready.

I guess the point is, even class 3+ water can be used to push your skill level, and is probably the first thing you should do, before moving up in difficulty. You'll be far more prepared when you move up.


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## lncoop (Sep 10, 2010)

callum.mcmahon711 said:


> Haha I live in NZ and I had to lie about where I'm from to join the forum.


That's funny! There just happens to be an Auckland, Arkansas too. Well, in that case I wouldn't recommend joining any Arkansas trips unless you just happen to be here.


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## gannon_w (Jun 27, 2006)

Incoop...do I know you?


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## callum.mcmahon711 (Nov 4, 2014)

I never knew that! One day I may come join one of your trips.


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## callum.mcmahon711 (Nov 4, 2014)

@Ninja_Nico @bystander I completely understand what you're saying and I think you guys are right and I might have to do a bit more so that I feel comfortable stepping up.


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## lncoop (Sep 10, 2010)

gannon_w said:


> Incoop...do I know you?


You do, but only as my alter-ego Deuce.


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## leif (Jul 11, 2009)

Ninja Nico is spot on, but I would add the idea of taking a paddling trip. Running new runs with no expectations or preconceptions can open up your horizons, and you might find when you come back that you ran new stuff that was harder than your local run. The trip itself may or may not actually build your skills, but I often find that my big steps forward happen at the beginning of trips or right when I get back.

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## jaffy (Feb 4, 2004)

I've had the same experience as Leif - I've come back from a couple trips with a big confidence boost from trying different things. I also started learning to playboat 2 years ago, and spending some time at playparks and in the pool has upped my river running skills too.


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## Southernsherpa (Sep 21, 2014)

I stepped up my game by paddling green water solo until I felt comfortable running C3 rivers solo. At that point I would be very confident on C4 with a group 


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## yetigonecrazy (May 23, 2005)

lmyers said:


> Don't let anyone pressure you into running whitewater your not comfortable with. You know if your ready. I personally paddle conservative with the attitude that I want to maintain this level of kayaking for another 30 years...


This ^^ is great advice. Also know that there is no rule that says you HAVE TO get better or that you HAVE to graduate to class 5 at some point. If you feel like you are maxed out at class III or IV, then that's fine. Enjoy that for the rest of your life and take the stress out of it. There are plenty of rivers in that category for a lifetime of exploration.

For example.....I don't think I will ever run class 5. I just have no desire. Sure, I may try to run an easy waterfall at some point in my life, but as far as running something like Gore Canyon or Valliceto, I know that there is a 99.9999% chance I will never run those stretches, and I am fine with that. I am perfectly happy being a class III-IV boater, and know that I can enjoy a great lifetime of boating amazing rivers and sharing them with amazing people.

I've seen people leave this sport because they feel pressured to "get good really fast". And that is missing the whole point of paddling. We paddle because it's fun; not because it's a ladder that we all have to climb. Some people will always be class I junkies and love every minute of it. Some people will find the hardest V/VI- rapids they can find and still not feel like they are reaching their peak. We are not all Laemmler Brothers.

Find what you love to do and keep doing it. Progression comes differently for each person and finding your own comfort zone, AND being happy in that zone will make you enjoy the sport for a lot longer than if you constantly feel pressured to do things you don't want to.

That being said, if you want to level up, my advice is to find a river or two that offer mostly the level you are at, but with one or two drops that you can work up on. For example, in CO, if I was a class IV boater looking to step up a notch, I might consider doing the "Pine Creek" stretch of the Arkansas- it's got a fair amount of class III and IV, but there is one class V rapid in there that's a good step above everything else on the run. So it would be a good training ground for someone looking to step up. But, as I said, everyone accelerates on their own pace, so make sure you just stay true to yourself and let the progression happen naturally and don't get pushed into going too far too fast, because then you might just end up being pushed away from the sport altogether, and nobody wants that to happen. Good luck!


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## soggy_tortillas (Jul 22, 2014)

I can definitely attest to not caving to pressure from others, but sometimes the confidence other people give you is what you need to push yourself. My first year kayaking all I did was goof around on flat water, work on strokes, rolling... maybe run a couple class II rapids. 

Second year, long story made short (nobody wants the long version): My boyfriend maybe gave me a few too many confidence boosters and talked me into running some stuff that I thought I wasn't ready for. Had a super successful run until the unfortunate but relatively low consequence swim at the end. Lost my boat for a few hours and ended up with some blisters on my feet. But it scared me enough to the point that for the rest of the season I was pretty panicky even on lower, slower water. I yelled at my boyfriend for making ripples in front of me, making a wake... Had a freak out one day and made him solo the rest of the run and come back for me. 
I'm not sure how or when I actually got over all of this. I guess at some point this season (third) is when it happened. I think running Steamboat multiple times at so many different levels really helped me. I've been able to choose new lines and push myself a little harder, play around and relax because I know the run. If anything does happen the friggin bike path is right there! Plus I only had three swims this season, two of em were on the same day... within minutes... but three swims out of maybe 50 river trips??? That's pretty good for a beginner. I'm gonna toot my own horn here, I've got a good brace!
And we did the lower blue, which is about the same grade, but you're in a pretty inaccessible canyon and some of those waves are pretty darn big, considering. Those few runs down the blue really made me feel good about my skills (no swims), and again, running it multiple times and remembering lines and trying new ones... I feel comfortable on the river again.
Next year I plan to work my way up to a IV, hopefully do Cross. :shock:
Plus I'll be in a new river runner or maybe a creeker as opposed to an old playboat... that might make a difference!


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## benR (Aug 5, 2014)

To me, stepping up is one part of kayaking that is exciting and fun but its just 1 part of the equation. There's something to be said for building confidence on a local run and trying all sorts of different lines, micro-eddies, ferries, surfs, boofs, backwards, sideways, playboats, etc. that you would never think of doing in an unfamiliar place or while "stepping up". Getting super comfortable pushing yourself in a particular class of whitewater within your ability will make "just running" the next harder class seem within your skill range when you are faced with the opportunity. 

For me stepping up the last couple seasons has been pushing myself in Golden Whitewater Park and running it a bunch of times a bunch of different ways (slalom-style, surfing stuff no one surfs, different boats, etc.), and then "stepping up" to Boulder Creek during runoff last season and getting super comfortable there, and then stepping up to Waterton/Foxton and getting comfortable trying various moves in there. And that placed me comfortable "just running" some class IV stuff like Lower Clear Creek, Mish/Pineview (Poudre) and the Numbers (Ark) last season. Maybe toward the end of next season I'll step up to Bailey or just be happy where I'm at. At some point the risk/reward equation will stop me from moving into anything harder so if I do get to class V, I'll be very selective. (2 little kids at home changes perspective.)


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## danger (Oct 13, 2003)

Only those who will risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go.- T. S. Eliot

when i began paddling harder rivers i got in way over my head and frequently got destroyed and swam a lot. however, i didn't get hurt and i got comfortable being scared on the water. i learned to focus. if you're comfortable on class 3 then try out some easy 5's. then when you step up to the 4's, they won't seem so bad. also, when you jump right into 5's make sure it's with an unknown crew that you won't likely paddle with again. this way your regular crew won't think you're completely shady and reckless. i recall showing up to a decent class 5 in colorado that i'd never seen before and joined a group at the put in. i convinced them that i knew what i was getting into (i had no idea) and i was completely sketched and ran shady awful lines all day- what a great learning experience!


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## tango (Feb 1, 2006)

danger said:


> also, when you jump right into 5's make sure it's with an unknown crew that you won't likely paddle with again. this way your regular crew won't think you're completely shady and reckless. i recall showing up to a decent class 5 in colorado that i'd never seen before and joined a group at the put in. i convinced them that i knew what i was getting into (i had no idea) and i was completely sketched and ran shady awful lines all day- what a great learning experience!



You're being sarcastic right? Sometimes I'm sarcastic on the internet and somebody
doesn't get the joke, which turns out to be hilarious. 

Pretty much everything you said is the worst advice a new kayaker could ever receive. Don't show up to run hard whitewater without a clue. "Oh yeah bro, I run the Green all the time."


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## danger (Oct 13, 2003)

I simply offer an alternative to the usual, and predictable, advice offered to a newer paddler. I didn't play it safe in my progression and I often got in over my head. I frequently paddled hard water solo and swam a bunch.
I hope no one gets hurt following my advice. However, I found success in the sink or swim approach.


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## craven_morhead (Feb 20, 2007)

New perspectives are great and all, but newbies following danger's advice should know that the approach is exposing you to a ton of danger. It can also be difficult finding paddling partners if you gain a reputation for swimming and scattering your gear all over the river.


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## jmack (Jun 3, 2004)

I just can't agree with danger on this one. When you make the jump directly from class 3 to class 5, you want to be with a solid crew of dudes who are ready to beater it up, run some terrible lines, and yard sale their shit all over the place too.


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## hotchkiss (Jun 17, 2006)

Jesus! Danger´s recommendation is so bass-ackwards that it it helarious! Gotta love it! Suggest it to other people, no way, but love it, hell yes.


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## soggy_tortillas (Jul 22, 2014)

Hey guys! I'm looking to run some nice class V's in the area. I've got a TON of experience (although I still can't roll) on class III and I'm ready to step it up a couple notches! Who wants to throw me a rope numerous times while they watch me get recirculated in a hole I had no idea was even there, followed by chasing my boat and paddle and the rest of my yard sale down the river???? Sounds like a good time, eh?? Don't bother getting my number, cuz you're never gonna wanna paddle with me again!!!!!! MWHAHAHAHAHA! 


Sorry, coming from a beginner who has struggled through water I wasn't ready for and ended up having major psychological issues because of it, this is the dumbest idea you could possibly conceive. Whitewater is already dangerous enough without adding stupidity to the concoction. 
If I followed danger's suggestion, not only would I be a danger to myself, but in a class V situation I could easily be a liability and danger to all others involved.

Rant over. Now, who wants to play "rescue the newbie?"


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## hotchkiss (Jun 17, 2006)

I was wondering when someone was going to get really pissed at Danger´s comments!


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## BeaterBoater (Sep 29, 2014)

I think it's low water and some of you are really fucking gullible! 

Especially saying taking "danger's" advice would be... (wait for it) "dangerous"! 

hahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahah too funny. Lighten up. 


My advice-

Do whatever feels right to you and don't listen to the naysayers. I got all kinds of shit when I felt like I was ready to step up in my 2nd season.


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## KSC (Oct 22, 2003)

You people are way too gullible. But to the original poster's point, it's a pet peeve of mine that boaters think that the way to step up is to 'nut up.' You get there through lots of focused practice and sometimes doing stuff that's not actually that fun like paddling flat water or playboating. It's not in the videos, but I'm willing to bet you virtually all those people running the gnar for a long time have put in their fair share of hard work. 

Also ask yourself, what's the rush? Is your goal to paddle for the next 2 years and tick off all your dream runs, or to paddle for the next 20+ years? If it's the latter, then take your time.


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## soggy_tortillas (Jul 22, 2014)

Hmm... funny... I'm not really pissed or offended. I also don't think anybody is really that stupid. I actually thought my response was rather lighthearted, guess that's the "danger" that lies in text rather than speech.
People should move at their own pace, and learn with what they're comfortable with, and other people they know and trust to help out in sticky situations. That doesn't mean it's okay to put other people at risk because of your stupidity and ignorance to the potential of nature's brutality, especially without being honest about your own skill level. I wouldn't ask anybody to paddle Gore with me right now, and even if I did, I really don't think anybody would be interested.  Or would they?

I guess "Careful" is my middle name.


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## benR (Aug 5, 2014)

No one should expose themself to danger. But people do it all the time, especially in this sport. Which has got to be a bit psychologically overwhelming for him, so I give him a break for posting hilariously crazy advice on the internet.


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## hotchkiss (Jun 17, 2006)

I realize I have provoked some of the hilarity in this thread, but on a more serious note, I am not sure anyone asking if they should step up to class V should be stepping up to class V. If a boater does not know they are ready, then they are probably not. 

Besides that, running any rapid is a decision a person needs to make at the time. Look at the river level, scout the rapid, find a line, play out worse case scenario of a swim, then do or don´t put-in.

Not to mention, there are some excellent class IV + runs that will give a person a much better idea of whether or not they are ready for class V: Granite to the Numbers put-in; the center of Skull at 2,500; Taylor River at 3,000 plus; the Upper Yampa...


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## soggy_tortillas (Jul 22, 2014)

One thing's for sure, if you are gonna step up to class V, make sure you've got your whistle and the group you're paddling with has a spare turkey leg to through you while you're drowning and screaming for help because you're about to lose your life


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## Phil U. (Feb 7, 2009)

This sport is an art form. Progression in this sport can, and IMO should, be an elegant dance with the rio. I get that there can be a lot of testosterone involved but even the boyze going biggest are dancing more than they are hucking. I've said this here before but it bears repeating... The best boater I know has swam once in his life, when he was 12 and brand new. It takes an agro personality to even attempt this sport but deep respect for the rio and humility are some of the most important lessons to be learned.


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## soggy_tortillas (Jul 22, 2014)

Geez... that was supposed to read: turkey leg to throw you, not turkey leg to through you... it's not even the right past tense. I would have edited my silly spelling and grammar error but apparently editing is no longer allowed?


Or just for a certain amount of time?


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## d.e. (Apr 5, 2005)

There are two sides to this sport. The physical - the skills needed - and the mental aspect. The skills progress fairly quickly for most people and are key to progressing to harder whitewater but the mental aspect is what determines what kind of boater you're going to be and just how good a boater you're going to become. The more you paddle, the quicker your paddling skills will come along. The mental challenge and sharpness comes from dealing with the unexpected difficulties that happen when you're paddling. Practice you're recovery scenarios in friendly environs ( play boating, eddy hopping, rolling in difficult currents, learning how to use boulders to make moves, boofing, and so on....) Also attention to detail and focus are key to progressing. Learn how to visualize and slow things down in your mind as they are happening and you will begin to attain the zen - like experience that hair boaters strive to achieve, the perfect moment, when everything happens in sync, where you relax and have complete confidence in what's about to happen. Of course it doesn't happen every time but it happens more often as you build your mental toughness and focus. It's an attainable goal, good luck with it.

Peace :grin:


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## d.e. (Apr 5, 2005)

And as much as possible avoid complacency, don't take the river for granted, even on easy water because complacency will get your butt kicked in a heartbeat in the strangest of ways................


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## BeaterBoater (Sep 29, 2014)

I'm of the mindset that some swims are good for you. A swim every now and then keeps you honest and keeps your imagination in check. I see a lot of new boaters that assume the bullshit feet up/down river position and float for 1/2 mile in nearly flat water because they don't know any better while everyone yells at them to swim to shore. Take that same person who doesn't have any experience in swimming and put him in class IV or V water and he's going to get a beat down. I've paddled some easier class V and I've never swam class IV. That frightens me a bit. 

I don't flip over very often and I have a bad shoulder so I don't do a lot of rolls. I enjoy play boating but it bothers my shoulder. If I haven't done a roll in a while it frightens me. Sometimes a roll is good. Sometimes a swim is good. My opinion.


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## Phil U. (Feb 7, 2009)

By definition, class 5 swims are almost never good. Class 4 rarely. One can learn how to swim rapids in SWR courses. Believe me, someone who paddles hard water and hasn't swam in 18 years isn't lacking in judgement or humility. I paddle a hundred plus days a year and have gone a whole season without a flip. "If you aren't swimming you aren't pushing yourself hard enough" is old school BS, IMO, says the old school boater.


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## eklars (Mar 28, 2006)

You should take Phil U's advice or better yet make the wintertime pilgrimage to BV to paddle low water #s with him, if he will have you. Its kind of like boating with an oracle or sensei.

I haven't swam in many a long year, and boat 100 days/yr. I boat mostly IV+ in my playboat when I have the option available. I like learning new skills, some of which are indeed only practicable in Class V environments, however I would urge any boater to avoid looking at boating a specific run as an accomplishment unto itself. 

Its more about the skills you rock, not the run you bested. Any more than this, its about the stoke! That said, if you want to run something, and I think you're going to swim and maybe get hurt, I'll still go with you, save you and your gear, hike out with you etc. As far as I am concerned thats all part of the fun!


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## d.e. (Apr 5, 2005)

I also want to add two more thoughts. Learn how to assess risk and consequences honestly and in an objectified manner. Then develop a safety protocol. I read a quote from Ed Viesturs once (big mountain climber) when asked why he had survived so many 8000 meter expeditions while scores of his peers had died, to paraphrase him " Based on my safety protocol there were times and conditions where I choose not to climb where others did and died". He didn't have a lower tolerance for risk - he took the same risks and accomplished his goals but in safer conditions. The same holds true for paddling. It's ok to walk some days. I did an Upper Animas trip at high water with a incredible paddler once who choose to walk the tracks out of Rockwood instead of dropping into the gorge because for whatever reason, he wasn't feeling it. This is a guy who has first descents around the world. It's okay to walk if you want. 
There all kinds of risks to assess on the river - weather, water temperature, water level, exposure, remoteness, gradient, sieves, strainers and so on. Your safety protocol should take all these of into account - stand alone and overall in conjunction with each other along with experience to guide your risk assessment process. 

Also, be honest in your abilities, your limitations and your concerns. It will help you progress however you want. Some people will move beyond and progress to more difficult whitewater while others will be satisfied with their status quo. It's all good- its boating

Peace


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## yetigonecrazy (May 23, 2005)

hotchkiss said:


> Taylor River at 3,000 plus


I'm assuming you meant 2,000 plus, because if the Taylor was at 3,000 plus it would be a flood of epic proportions and I don't think anyone would be running it. 

x2 on going and learning from Phil. That guy just understands and connects to the river in a way few do. Phil......maybe you should start offering two or three day soul boater lessons to try and impart some of your wisdom to cub boaters!


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