# Elections have consequence for river runners---Montana River Access



## GeoRon (Jun 24, 2015)

I have moved here entries that originated on "Rafting | Trip Planning > On the wrong Side(camping on private/prohibited land)"

While I feel my entries to that thread where timely and appropriate, no doubt they were very political. The entries I moved pertain to river access, river trespass, river safety and in many cases were specific to Montana.

At debate is the appropriateness of politics on Mountain Buzz. I consider MB the perfect place to discuss river running related topics and you cannot sanitize all river access and river conservation topics of politics. Usually such topics differentiate political parties in general.

The 2019 election in Montana changed the governor to republican. The former democratic governor lost his bid to win election to the US senate for Montana.

This election may put at risk the current Montana laws that permit river corridor access to all who cherish rivers and not just the owners of the land through which the river passes.

Also at risk is legislation proposed by Jon Tester(D) to add wild and scenic status to many Montana rivers. This legislation would have been much easier if Montana had two democratic senators and a democratic governor.

Elections have consequences. Every vote counts. Sometimes unfortunately rivers (runners) lose.


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## GeoRon (Jun 24, 2015)

[email protected] said:


> Could we all try to keep politics out of mtn. buzz for a little while please, it gets old and tiresome. The words Republican, Democratic, socialist, liberal, conservative have no place here in my opinion.


*I strongly differ with you bighorn. You cannot separate river access and river conservation from politics. Consider these links detailing proposed legislation and potential actions in Montana. *









Montanans For Healthy Rivers


Montana’s healthy rivers and clean water are critical to our state’s prosperity, our unmatched way of life, and to our flourishing fish and wildlife. Now is the time to conserve the most important headwaters streams on Montana’s public lands.




www.healthyriversmt.org








__





American Whitewater


The primary advocate for the preservation and protection of whitewater rivers throughout the United States and connects the interests of human-powered recreational river users with ecological and science-based data to achieve goals within our mission.




www.americanwhitewater.org





*Compare the above proposed legislation by John Tester(D) to the actions previously linked to concerning the new governor of Montana.*









The Fight for Public Access to Rivers in Montana


Greg Gianforte, the Republican candidate for governor, threatens the state's unique angler-access regulations




www.outsideonline.com





*You cannot discuss river access and trespassing in Montana or anywhere without considering politics. Remember, I did not bring up the topic of trespass in Montana and hence I don't mind getting down to the brass tacks of that issue.

Current affairs are often the topic of threads on MB and when you analyze the considerations of the threads it frequently boils down to politics. 

Please do not trespass. When you trespass on a whim or intentionally it makes it more difficult for the rest of us river runners when we have to do it during an emergency.*


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## GeoRon (Jun 24, 2015)

The thread topic is trespassing and a confession of having to have done it. Regrettably, some people bragged about frequent and intentional trespassing. They where deservedly shamed.

The subtopic became favorable river access in Montana. Based upon recent events notification was given to be aware that may change.

From that point it became mostly obfuscating on the part of the proud trespassers. (Sorry to be so blunt.) In grade school it goes like this: Teacher catches Johnny doing something bad and points out bad behavior then Johnny rather than being contrite and saying I was wrong prefers to obfuscate and say so-and-so did worse things. The worse thing was politics and critical river access issues in Montana. I'm not ashamed.

As I said, I'm not ashamed to make river runners aware of critical boating issues occurring right now in Montana. Would I have preferred to do it during some less obviously appropriate time,well... Like trespassing during an emergency, the proper time was here and now. Sorry it had to happen and I'm willing to accept the consequences of better judgement.

Please do not trespass.


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## GeoRon (Jun 24, 2015)

[email protected] said:


> I like to think and hope I have always done a good job of not using any of political references when posting to mtn. buzz. GeoRon, you cannot separate river access and river conservation issues from political labels, but hopefully I can. When I write a letter to the politician opposing legislation I do not agree with, I will not start the letter with Dear Republican, just Dear Whomever.


Two things when writing to politicians.
1. Do not be on record as condoning trespassing.
2. You'd better be aware of the issues and the players and their politics before writing letters intent to influence politicians. In Montana, I have provided that basic background.

I'd be happen to move this entire thread to the eddy forum. I know it can be done.


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## GeoRon (Jun 24, 2015)

It wasn't like a game of chess. I had no idea where this thread was going to go except to say that trespassing was wrong and hearing two valued posters say otherwise was very disappointing.

Once Montana access rights were mentioned it became obvious that a Montanan should know local significant access issues they might not have been unaware of.

Perhaps the whole thread should be moved over to as you suggest River access and safety. There, mentions of emergency access vs trespass could be appropriately considered.


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## okieboater (Oct 19, 2004)

Take this topic to The Eddy


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## GeoRon (Jun 24, 2015)

okieboater said:


> Take this topic to The Eddy


This is the Eddy.


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## okieboater (Oct 19, 2004)

oops, my mistake

when I opened the buzz this post showed up.

Has a change in Mt Buzz programming been made ? Seems like when I used to open Mt Buzz, I went directly to the white water forum. 

But, my mistake, I will just click past posts like this one in the future.


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## k2andcannoli (Feb 28, 2012)

Yeah now its a thread of all new activity. You can go to the individual forums still but the main page is definitely different.


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## IDriverRunner (Aug 18, 2015)

It would be nice to completely unfollow certain threads so they didn't show up in the new activity.


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## GeoRon (Jun 24, 2015)

Simple solution.


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## IDriverRunner (Aug 18, 2015)

GeoRon said:


> Simple solution.


That's one way to look at it, sure. I don't come here for politics. Others may, and that's ok. Will I try to put someone down by implying that just because I don't want to read about politics on a whitewater forum that they should bury their head in the sand? No. I fully understand, and respect, that we all come here for different reasons. That's what I believe makes this site great.

For me, the ideal situation is to have the functionality to follow/unfollow certain threads from from showing up in the "What's New" section of this site. Seems pretty simple and unconfrontational to me, am I wrong?


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## GeoRon (Jun 24, 2015)

IDriverrunner,

The topic of the thread was obvious so why did you bother opening it? And once you were reminded of the topic the politically correct thing to do was to leave. But you couldn't do that.

However, I agree that the ability to tag threads that are not of interest such that they no longer appear is desirable. I believe it existed in the old system. Talking to management would have been the more productive approach. But truthfully that wasn't really what you were interested in now was it??

Anyway, The way this works is, the sooner you guys ignore this thread and quit adding comments the sooner it will roll out of sight. While it is an important topic, I'm not that invested in it to keep it active.


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## IDriverRunner (Aug 18, 2015)

GeoRon said:


> But truthfully that wasn't really what you were interested in now was it.


Actually, that was 100% all I was interested in...

Not looking to cause any trouble here, or engage with any further back-and-forth with you. I was simply stating my opinion on a capability I wish this site had. I apologize if I offended.

Best wishes and if I ever run into you in the river I owe you a beer.


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## 2tomcat2 (May 27, 2012)

"I fully understand, and respect, that we all come here for different reasons. That's what I believe makes this site great."
Thank you, IDriverRunner....


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## GeoRon (Jun 24, 2015)

The beer is on me.


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## okieboater (Oct 19, 2004)

my last post on this thread is :

The change that gave us this automatic set of topics from forums as determined by the programmers
should be changed to let registered members (or every one) select the forum they want to go to on logons.
or just go to the ww boaters general forum on logons which should be a pretty simple programming task.


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## GeoRon (Jun 24, 2015)

Rather than cluttering up somewhere you prefer not to be with comments not pertinent to the thread I have created a new thread where you can clarify your specific needs.

The more hits this thread in "Community Help" receives the greater the likelihood of a successful request.









Mountain Buzz







www.mountainbuzz.com


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## LSB (Mar 23, 2004)

Um.... the post is about river access in Montana, This is a river running forum, That's why we come here,,, to talk about rivers and issues that affect them.
I lived 20 years in Colorado where I couldnt get out of my boat in many places. Now I live in a state where I can. Our new governor has in the past tried to convince lawmakers to change that.
I for one, would appreciate every buzzard screamming THIS IS BULLSHIT at Gienforte every chance yall get.


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## Andy H. (Oct 13, 2003)

okieboater said:


> my last post on this thread is :
> 
> The change that gave us this automatic set of topics from forums as determined by the programmers should be changed to let registered members (or every one) select the forum they want to go to on logons. or just go to the ww boaters general forum on logons which should be a pretty simple programming task.


I've reached out to the tech folks about your request.

In the meantime, this is a river access issue and is quite pertinent to boating. I'll move this thread to the Access and Safety Alerts forum where it should be. Unfortunately river access and politics are often intricately intertwined, and the reality is: "those who don't do politics get done by politics." MountainBuzz has been used to mobilize support for river access in the past and hopefully will be used to support river access in the future.

Many of us live in a state where a swimmer coming ashore on private land, or someone who touches the river bottom as they float past a multi-million dollar third home can find the sheriff waiting for us at the takeout with an arrest warrant. We came close to having a legislative fix for that once upon a time and if it comes up again, you'll see the Buzz used to mobilize political support.

If that offends your sensibilities and you need a "safe space" please remember you always have the power to scroll right past any threads you don't want to read.

-AH


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## LSB (Mar 23, 2004)

"those who don't do politics get done by politics." 
I'll use that one,,,, Thanks


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## GeoRon (Jun 24, 2015)

Deleted by author


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

Andy H. said:


> If that offends your sensibilities and you need a "safe space" please remember you always have the power to scroll right past any threads you don't want to read.
> -AH


 And there's the ignore function too, which works great. You can "unfollow" a thread, I saw the link to do so somewhere on a thread I was following, but I was interested in it and didn't.


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## GeoRon (Jun 24, 2015)

Deleted.


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