# Banjos



## SpeyCatr (Aug 14, 2013)

Since it's the semi off season for some with cabin fever starting to set in I'm wondering if you can tell me of a time when you were out on a river when you thought you were going or you should have heard banjos? What happened and what did you do? 


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## oarframe (Jun 25, 2008)

Picked up my uke and played along...
then ran like hell


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## mattman (Jan 30, 2015)

I paddled faster!!


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## Quiggle (Nov 18, 2012)

Forks of the Kern, California:
So a few days before we meant with the mule packers to get our gear down to the river, There was an incident in town (Lake Isabella I beleive) where two men shot a police officer. They then disappeared into the Sequoia National Forest and a man hunt was issued. A day later the getaway vehicle was discovered at a trailhead on the east side of the river; Rincon Trail to be exact. Now Rincon is a very Rugged trail that will bring you near the Forks of the Kern but not easily, Back to the river.
So we launched on a 3 day trip of very amazing, committing class 5 white water. The Forks is about 22 mile of consecutive class 3-5 whitewater, with a 2 mile hike into the remote canyon. The trip was full of all kinds of incidents how ever the first day left us all with questions.
Im not positive the exact location either somewhere near the freeman's or Downhill and Slalom, but we came up on two men, on the east side of the river appearing to be building a raft out of drift wood, their clothes were tattered and dirty and they looked like we surprised them. One of the party went over to talk to them but wasn't given a friendly welcome, and he warned them to be safe and carried on. We had lunch at Durwood lodge (RIP), and we couldn't stop talking about what they were doing, how the hell did they get down here, and most importantly were those the men that the man hunt was issued for? We set up camp a few miles down stream and we discovered we had video of them on a go pro. We decided as a team we should get this footage to the police, so the next day a crazed member of our crew ran up the canyon to a homestead to try to get the footage to local deputies. Once he came back we continued on.

Wen we got back to town we went to the local bar and ran into the two men. They we're thankful to see us as they believed we had saved there lives. They were inexperienced folks went hiking and got incredibly lost. They were rescued by SAR shortly after we had the video delivered. Would have been alot cooler if we caught the guys who shot that police.


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## k2andcannoli (Feb 28, 2012)

Check out this story, you'll like it.

Shootout At Sang Run - History of the Upper Yough History of the Upper Yough


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## SpeyCatr (Aug 14, 2013)

I thought you guys might like this story by Burt Reynolds about the infamous scene in Deliverance lol: http://www.subgenius.com/bigfist/FIST2002-1/Movies-TV-Books/X0034_Took_the_Method_way_.html


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## lmyers (Jun 10, 2008)

Deliverance and the whole "I hear banjos, paddle faster" marketing gimmick is super fucking lame. Probably the dumbest cliche associated with whitewater.


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## SpeyCatr (Aug 14, 2013)

I view it less as a marketing gimmick and more as a warning to protect yourself. You never know who you are going to run into and before you know it you're squealin like a pig. You probably just jinxed yourself!


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## okieboater (Oct 19, 2004)

Now living in Oklahoma, I grew up in North Georgia and was blessed to float many of the amazing streams of the NC, TN, GA area. Some higher power had to look out for us as we had zero skills starting out and just had fun mostly in Grumman canoes and surplus military little rafts .

The movie was indeed something else. Hollywood's version of area tall tales.

The post about protecting yourself is for real. Applies today I think.

At the time the movie was produced, you could drive down to woodall shoals. Like the hwy 76 bridge crossing, woodall was a fun spot to spend the day outside or take out for the boaters who made the run down from the bridge. While boaters knew the run below woodall was dangerous, it was that long paddle across the lake that prompted many of us to take out at woodall. This was a popular spot in the summer time.

At woodall, a group of what we would now call a gang got into it with people hanging out with lunch etc and there were injuries. Local law enforcement got involved big time and the attacks went on for hours till LEO's broke it up. Made the local news outlets big time.

Bottom line here is the movie was a lame but entertaining depiction of one heck of a great river (most of the movie was actually shot on another local dam flow controlled run). The idea of boaters being aware of where they go and taking reasonable steps to take care of them selves is a good thing in my opinion.


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## lmyers (Jun 10, 2008)

That's interesting. I think it's totally unnecessary to carry a firearm on the river unless you are in grizzly country, or possibly on a multi-day that has a history or aggressive bears (Desolation). Outside of wildlife issues my experience has been that they generally cause more problems than they solve....

I would be interested in hearing what other buzzard's take on this is. Do you carry a weapon when boating?


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## climbdenali (Apr 2, 2006)

I carry on the river sometimes. Depends on what river, the group, etc. I don't think I'll ever need it, but it's small/light enough that, like a patch/repair kit which will also likely never be used, it's hard to justify not brining it on account of size. It lives in the bottom of my personals bag, and doesn't come out for anything unless there's an emergency.

I have a friend who carries now on almost every trip, after having to fight a bear off another trip member with sticks. It's not just Grizzlies that attack- black bears do, too. On that particular occasion the black bear wasn't even being aggressive- the human and bear were equally surprised by one another, and it just so happened that this time the bear fought back, rather than running off.

I also have a friend who has had a fairly close encounter with a violent felon/fugitive on the river. I think he carries just about every trip now.

I guess I feel like I'm heading into the wilderness, far from help if we need it. We all carry first aid kits because we are far from medical care, and I don't see carrying a pistol as being much different- it's emergency equipment that I likely will never need.


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## Andy H. (Oct 13, 2003)

Like lmyers, I've never carried a firearm and don't see any need to. In over 20 years of river running, I've never felt threatened by wildlife or other people I've encountered. The only time I've ever dealt with firearms on the river was to visit a neighboring campsite and ask a shooter to put away the gun they were doing target practice with. The guy shooting was completely hammered and barely able to stand, but he put the gun away and we didn't hear another shot during the trip.

If you're hunting or in serious bear country, that's one thing, but otherwise, it's just an added and quite unnecessary risk IMHO.

Keep it real,

-AH


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## okieboater (Oct 19, 2004)

Having grown up on a farm with a Dad who taught me hunting and fishing skills real early in life. I have a lot of respect for the responsibility having and using a fire arm has. Bottom line the responsible use of fire arms is a big deal to me.

I am a decent pistol shot. Bottom line for me is having a powerful enough pistol to stop a charging bear (black or griz -does not matter) is pretty iffy if not zero. Any time I have a pistol on a trip it is for a really bad person not a bear.

On the other hand, I understand the danger bears have and think we boaters are in their home space meaning the danger is there in bear country. I found a decent bear spray with videos showing it working. For a number of years I have a can of that spray handy on my raft and in camp. Last summer I had a expired can that I tested out in the back yard on a windless day. A short test burst away from me left my lungs burning. I think this spray is the way to go for bear protection. Much safer and easier to carry than a bear stopper pistol. I think maybe a well experienced Alaskan or African game person could stop a charging bear with a pistol, I doubt it happening every time tho. Charging bears are just way too fast and many people have shot bears multiple times with big caliber rifles and still got hurt.

My bear spray puts out a big circle of orange gas drops my guess is up to 20 feet in front of me and a charging bear would probably run into it big time. Same for a bad guy. On the same topic if I was on Deso and a bear was chewing on me on my cot, I would like my Bud to hose us both down with bear spray as opposed to unloading a pistol of any caliber. 

Bear spray good for bears and people protection - pistols maybe on people but iffy there. Decide your self what works for you.


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## elkhaven (Sep 11, 2013)

Thread fully hijacked... I carry a handgun most times, it's not particularly for protection but that is a small consideration. For the most part, I keep it around for the same reason as a first aid kit.... if I need one I'd hate to not have it around. We rarely shoot on the river, never when folks are near. 

I have used my pistol a handful of times putting down mangled animals on the side of the road. I hate watching animals suffer and I've hit several on my own and stopped by random folks each with a deer with irrecoverable injuries. Everyone has been thankful I could release the animal from it's suffering.

I do know that this is technically illegal and one day at a walk in hunting area I was harassed by a game warden who noted that I was using the same kind of shotgun shells as were laying next to a roadkill farther up the road. In this case I had nothing to do with putting the animal down and I reminded him that the local sporting good store had them on sale at a ridiculous price... not only I had them but everyone in our group as well. He reluctantly let us go and I resisted the urge to argue with him on the merits of what had been done.

A second story revolves around a dear that hit me. Driving on I-90 I crested a hill and saw several does in the middle of the icy hwy. I slowed way down and crept past them, as soon as I was passed I focused on what was a head when I saw a flash out of my eye then saw a deer run right into the middle of my front quarter panel. Shortly after the impact the truck lurched and two rear legs went flying from front to back (the deer had done a complete revolution around the wheel, knocking it off the bead in the process). I pulled over to see the dear crawling back into the middle of traffic (this was actually in the middle of the day), so I waved at the on coming cars and they all went around as the deer reversed coarse and headed for the borrow ditch on my side of the road. It was dragging it's hind quarters and spewing blood... So I grabbed my pistol, put it in my shirt and went down to inspect the animal, sure enough it was in BAD shape it's back was actually twisted 180 degrees - front legs pointing down, back legs pointing up. But as I got close it panicked and changed direction again back into traffic... I headed it off and it got into the ditch which it then tried to crawl out the other side but really couldn't. I couldn't take it anymore so I looked down the road and saw no one coming. I put one quick bullet in the back of the head and its suffering was over. As I turned around pistol in hand unloading it a fish and game truck wizzed by... I thought, Oh shit this is going to cost me. I quickly jogged to the truck all the while expecting brake lights and a cross median u-turn and flashing lights. But no all was well, for me any ways accept now I had to change a tire in the snow. The deer at least wasn't suffering any more. 

So long story short there are many, non-life threatening reasons to have a gun around whether on the river or elsewhere. Responsible use is the key. No shooting from camp, no shooting when wasted and many other rules should apply. But I'd always rather have one and never need it then need it and not have it.


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## [email protected] (Jun 1, 2010)

I am well trained in the use of firearms and have a CC permit. But and there is always a butt somewhere. I would always choose bear spray over a hand gun for aggressive dogs, muggers (assholes) or bears when possible. It is far better than a taser as well, IMHO. In over 50 years of rafting I have never fired a shot or even pulled my gun out.
Just really lucky that way I guess. I carry bear spray for my peace of mind.


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## lmyers (Jun 10, 2008)

I also carry bear spray, and a blow horn and a rather large and sharp river knife.... but like I said before every gun I have ever seen (not saying there weren't one's I didn't see) were being used in an unnecessary and generally obnoxious way. More power to you for whatever you need to do to feel safe, but please don't pull it on the banjo playing ******** chilling along the river bank


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## [email protected] (Jun 1, 2010)

lmyers said:


> I also carry bear spray, and a blow horn and a rather large and sharp river knife.... but like I said before every gun I have ever seen (not saying there weren't one's I didn't see) were being used in an unnecessary and generally obnoxious way. More power to you for whatever you need to do to feel safe, but please don't pull it on the banjo playing ******** chilling along the river bank


 The odds of you ever seeing a gun in the hands of a responsible gun owner is zero for the most part. You should never see a gun, knife or any other weapon in a persons hand unless they are defending their or someone else's life.


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## mattman (Jan 30, 2015)

I don't pack heat on the river, and so far I've never felt the need, I have however wondered if I should car camping. I've had people come up to our tent in the middle of the night, and not identify themselves till I asked, then by name only( who the fuck is Travis?) turned out to be the BLM, which gave me a big sigh of relief. Got me thinking though, what if it had been someone coming to murder us? 
Always feel safer on the river, but ya never know. 

Have to say, I'm glad when good people carry guns, especially river runners, keeps the possibility alive that if you go fuckin with people people minding there own business, you might get shot. For every fucked up event you hear about involving a gun, there are way more guns that stay in a dry bag for emergency's only.


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## elkhaven (Sep 11, 2013)

lmyers said:


> .... but like I said before every gun I have ever seen (not saying there weren't one's I didn't see) were being used in an unnecessary and generally obnoxious way. More power to you for whatever you need to do to feel safe, but please don't pull it on the banjo playing ******** chilling along the river bank


You've unfortunately been around the wrong gun owners...I know you posted this before Big Horns post, but his is solid truth. 

Unfortunately you've been exposed to bad gun owners... and there are few things worse during a weekend in the woods, but please don't condemn the rest us due to the morons of your past. You've probably bunked with more gun toter's than you realize. As Bighorn states, we responsible ones rarely advertise our cargo...

Edit - And I agree whole heartedly on bear spray. It is a deterrent, an extremely effective one, guns are an execution (if you're lucky). Spray before slay.


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## BlueTurf (Mar 9, 2013)

Since the thread has been completely jacked (I like the banjo stickers BTW, mildly amusing).....

During my 320 mile trip on the Salmon/Snake last year (Boundary to Heller) I carried my 20 gauge/.22 over/under Savage in a dry box on top. I did not need it in the 25 days I was on the river but I'm still glad I brought it. 

That was the first time I carried a firearm on the river. I generally don't because I know others in my group are so I don't need to.


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## SpeyCatr (Aug 14, 2013)

Yes, I notice the thread, which was intended to be open ended in the variety of replies and could have gone any way has been effectively skewed towards whether you carry guns or not while out on the river, but it is a completely relevant conversation with respect to banjos. Many replies are examples of people giving up reasons why they carry guns out on river trips and "just in case" seems to be the big one. But everyone is afraid to say the real reason why (the "elephant in the room"): We all know that since many of us saw that movie, banjos bring up a lot of anxiety in the river running community. Clearly the gun is there to protect your anoos! There, I said it. Now continue the thread!


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## climbdenali (Apr 2, 2006)

Mattman- I'm with ya on the car camping, but I'll add that I've had some pretty creepy people show up at river camps uninvited, too. A busy summer weekend on Stillwater (or was it Labyrinth?) comes to mind. Since there's no whitewater to keep the riff raff away, some drunk dudes in canoes pulled up to our camp fairly late one evening, I guess thinking that they could share camp with us.

Now, I'm usually pretty inviting, but these guys just seemed shady, so we hinted that they needed to move along. It took some doing (like when you're trying to convince your hammered buddy that it's not a good idea to drive home, but they're utterly convinced that they're fine) but they finally left without incident. It's that kind of interaction that makes me really think of what might have happened had they been less jovial, had a gun themselves, etc etc. No one on that trip (to my knowledge) had a gun, but it's past interactions like that that sway me to carry, sometimes.

I fully agree that if someone chooses to bring a gun on the river it shouldn't be seen, and that bear spray might often be a better choice. However, to say that bearspray is effective and therefore no gun is needed is like saying that since I have bandaids and gauze in my FA kit, and since there are risks to using qwik clot, I don't need to bring the qwik clot.

Whatever your personal choice, be safe out there, everybody!


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## IATNR (Oct 2, 2013)

squawk 7500


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## lmyers (Jun 10, 2008)

Good input. Thanks all. I don't judge anyone's opinion of what they need to do to feel safe as long as they don't obnoxiously flaunt their weapon in an obviously inappropriate way. I still feel the OP's statements about having to worry about getting butt raped by people playing banjo are either a stupid attempt at comedy or a ridiculous excuse for unjustified paranoia that have no baring on the totally legitimate conversation of firearms. I simply wanted to know if the people on this forum thought it was necessary to carry a firearm for safety on the river.


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## SpeyCatr (Aug 14, 2013)

Lmyers, I apologize if you got hurt feelings from what I said and can't take a little sarcasm. Only issue is you probably gotta pay to have them checked at the hospital. 


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## Andy H. (Oct 13, 2003)

SpeyCatr said:


> Lmyers, I apologize if you got hurt feelings from what I said and can't take a little sarcasm. Only issue is you probably gotta pay to have them checked at the hospital.


Odd - I don't see lmyers recent post as seeming butthurt at all. I also agree that the whole "banjos" theme is unrealistic, lame, and has been overplayed since the '70s. 

-AH


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## SpeyCatr (Aug 14, 2013)

Andy I took it as upset about something I said sarcastically. 


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## curtis catman (Sep 29, 2015)

Back in 1998, Myself my dad and Uncle and 6 other adults went on a 100 mile canoe trip on the New where it starts down in the Mountains of North Carolina. We were shuttling trucks every other day because the river was low and we could not carry all our gear in canoes. Any ways the 3 day Dad and his brother, both used to be pretty rough customers, stopped to ask permission to drop a truck on private property. The owners name was Tommy and it was pretty early in the morning and Tommy was already drunk. Dad asked him if he minded and Tommy told Dad that he would be needing the Gold tooth in Dad's mouth to park there. Now Dad being a veteran and Uncle Jimmy being a Veteran and Me being a veteran we all carry, not that Dad would have needed a pistol to take care of old drunk Tommy. But Dad resorted to diplomacy, being a responsible Gun owner that he is and asked Tommy if a case of bear would suffice. Tommy agreed and no guns left their holsters. It is like Elk and Bighorn said. You never see a responsible gun owners gun. But when I take my family into the back country I carry. I will be damned if I am going to let something happen to mine that could be prevented. Now if you don't approve then don't carry a gun, just don't try to convince me I don't need one. I have lived with guns my entire life. They have never hurt anything they were not meant to hurt. They don't go off all on their own. Just remember those of you that think they are bad, If you get into some situation that threatens your safety, the first person you would call is some law enforcement that have a gun. They are a long way off out in the woods and I doubt that by the time they arrive your attacker, man or beast, will wait for them to show up. Their is a bright side to this, hopefully someone you are with has the foresight to be prepared for all situations.


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## okieboater (Oct 19, 2004)

Every body posting on this msg board has an opinion and for the most part seem to be free to post it. My bet is most of us do not know all the facts of what prompted any poster to make any statement. It is all opinions! Probably worth about what the band width cost it took to do the post.

Having stated my opinion above, I could not have expressed my opinions concerning butt raping on rivers or guns on rivers any better than Curtis Catman did.

Swapping opinions on a msg board is one thing, being in the back country or even interstate rest areas or here lately watching TV in your home, having a verbal debate with an individual or animal (human or otherwise) who is out for harming others is another. News outlets are full of people hiking, traveling or in their homes getting attacked. The LEO's by definition show up after something bad happens.

One vote for Mr Catman's opinion from me.


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## okieboater (Oct 19, 2004)

*swuawk 7500*

6-3-4. Special Emergency (Air Piracy)

a. A special emergency is a condition of air piracy, or other hostile act by a person(s) aboard an aircraft, which threatens the safety of the aircraft or its passengers.

b. The pilot of an aircraft reporting a special emergency condition should:
1. If circumstances permit, apply distress or urgency radio-telephony procedures. Include the details of the special emergency.
REFERENCE-
AIM, Distress and Urgency Communications, Paragraph 6-3-1.
2. If circumstances do not permit the use of prescribed distress or urgency procedures, transmit:
(a) On the air/ground frequency in use at the time.
(b) As many as possible of the following elements spoken distinctly and in the following order:
(1) Name of the station addressed (time and circumstances permitting).
(2) The identification of the aircraft and present position.
(3) The nature of the special emergency condition and pilot intentions (circumstances permitting).
(4) If unable to provide this information, use code words and/or transponder as follows:

Spoken Words
TRANSPONDER SEVEN FIVE ZERO ZERO 
Meaning
I am being hijacked/forced to a new destination 
Transponder Setting
Mode 3/A, Code 7500


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## cracksmeup (Sep 3, 2008)

*weapon of choice*

The best weapon of choice while on the river and you hear banjo pick'n' is another banjo! That is the only honorable way to accept this dual. I'll let you in on a little secret though, it's good to have one of your buddy's back'n you up with a bow.


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