# 4CRS Swap & Sale this weekend!



## 4CRS (Apr 16, 2010)

We're holding our annual Spring Swap & Sale this weekend (May 5 & 6) at 4Corners Riversports! Everything in the store will be 10-50% off and we'll have our parking lot packed with great deals on used gear. Doors open at 9 am on Saturday.

Used gear check in will be all day tomorrow (Friday) from 9 to 7. Check out 4CORNERS RIVERSPORTS | Kayak, Raft, Canoe, SUP, Gear, Rentals, Lessons for more info.

See you at the swap!

~4CRS~


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## Floatin mucho (Mar 25, 2012)

That is cool, you guys skim 25% off of the top of used gear sales, and everyone else pays inflated prices for the used gear to cover the commission. I would be more inclined to support a local business if you weren't charging 50% over retail prices for certain raft repair items in your shop. A local bike shop I talked to is only charging 10% for consignment, and they are giving up floor space in the shop for an unknown period of time. How much is a space in your parking lot for one day worth?Sincerely
Irritated local


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## Flying_Spaghetti_Monster (Jun 3, 2010)

Not sure if you know how that works man. Things are only worth as much as they are worth. A buyer can't increase the price of something just to cover his loss on the commission. Many stores do this, it is a way to bring business to the shop, and try to get the seller to use that money towards new gear. People buying used gear kills small shops, and this is a way to keep shops in business. I am not sure if 4Corners is doing this, but some shop will wave the commission charge if the person puts the money towards a new boat. As far as mark up, have you ever heard of overhead? It is not cheap to run a shop. 4Corners has always been good to me, and I have never had an issue. I would suggest anyone going to the swap, and to have a good time.


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## Floatin mucho (Mar 25, 2012)

I could be wrong, but I assume markup is built into retail prices (msrp). I agree things are only worth what they are worth. That is why it is irritating when I find something I need on the manufacturers web site with a msrp of 25$. I then look for a local dealer, and sure enough, 4crs is the one. So I ask them to order it for me, and they tell me that they have it in stock. Awesome. That will be 40$ plus tax. What? That is what I call price gouging, consitering there is already profit built into the 25$ price, and the msrp is supposed to insure uniform pricing across different dealers. Needless to say, I went with another dealer. The used gear market does compete with the new gear market, but someone like 4crs already made money when the gear was sold the first time. As far as the comission, I just feel that taking 250 off the top of a thousand bucks is a little excessive, for the services rendered, and that everybody would get a better deal using craigs list, or the classifieds on the buzz. There is commonly a difference between what someone will accept for used gear, and the subjective fair market value of said gear. This difference is known as a good deal, and adding 25% to someone's minimum acceptible price will increase the price, and decrease the possability of getting a good deal. If someone is willing to accept 25% less than what they are asking, they should just reduce the price by 25%, good deals usually go quick, and you are passing the savings on to a fellow boater. If you feel the need to make a donation to 4crs, that is cool to.


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## Brotorboat (Apr 14, 2009)

I don't know the specifics about 4Corners' Swap but a good example of a Swap and Sale is Down River's. The seller chooses between 85% back or 100% store credit. It is a decent avenue to take because folks can use a credit card for used boats and you can't do that on Craigslist or here on the Buzz.


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## shonuffkayak (Feb 2, 2011)

Floatin mucho said:


> That is cool, you guys skim 25% off of the top of used gear sales, and everyone else pays inflated prices for the used gear to cover the commission. I would be more inclined to support a local business if you weren't charging 50% over retail prices for certain raft repair items in your shop. A local bike shop I talked to is only charging 10% for consignment, and they are giving up floor space in the shop for an unknown period of time. How much is a space in your parking lot for one day worth?Sincerely
> Irritated local


Kinda have to agree with bulk of this thread. Bought a used kayak from you 4crs. It was a consignment boat 300$. Not bad and was happy till shipping got bumped from the original 75$ to 150. Still within my range but wont do business with them again. Class get all my business from here on out cause they been solid and no price changes in middle of transaction like I got with 4crs


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## shonuffkayak (Feb 2, 2011)

shonuffkayak said:


> Kinda have to agree with bulk of this thread. Bought a used kayak from you 4crs. It was a consignment boat 300$. Not bad and was happy till shipping got bumped from the original 75$ to 150. Still within my range but wont do business with them again. Class get all my business from here on out cause they been solid and no price changes in middle of transaction like I got with 4crs


* class in post was ment to read CKS as in Colorado kayak supply.


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## TonyM (Apr 17, 2006)

Floatin Mucho, we try hard to stick to MSRP, if you paid $40 for an item that had an MSRP of $25 come see me and I will refund you the difference. We also have a price matching policy in place so if you do find an item cheaper somewhere else we will do our best to give you the same deal at our store. As for the swap, it is a fun event, it has worked well for years and if you don't want to be charged a commission we have a bulletin board in the shop you can post your gear on for free. I also agree that craigslist is a great way to sell used gear. 

Shonuffkayak, with used boats we only charge the actual cost of shipping, we make nothing above what the freight companies charge us. Sometimes it's $75, usually it's more. Our current system does not have the ability to have a shipping calculator figure it out online so we put a base charge in and call you with the actual freight charges after we contact several shippers to find the best rate. On new boats we have a little room to eat some of the shipping but on consignment gear the cost of shipping is the buyers responsibility and shipping kayaks is expensive due the the dimensions.


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## LBD123 (Apr 27, 2012)

*4 Corners can learn from Jagged Edge*

You know, in Telluride we have a little boat shop called Jagged Edge. They have a swap albeit small right now. But all proceeds go to the local club to support whitewater access, education, and improvements. I don't know what 4 corners donates these days they are a business in a big river community. Jagged Edge dramatically decreases their prices on selected items too to promote more participation. Such as, I picked up 4 carbon Head Trip helments for like $20 each!!! and other stuff. The boats are cheap too. Perhaps 4 corners could learn a little from this. Durango is much bigger than telluride but the communities all around the area here i.e. Ridgway, Doloras, Ouray, and yes even Telluride, really do support locals from time to time. Wouldn't it just feel better if all the proceeds were donated to the local whitewater club even at 25%???? I do agree that if they pocket this, (and I really don't know what they do) that seems like not a very community oriented thing to do. I mean come on...its a swap!!!! It's supposed to get folks into the sport not deter them.


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## F.A.A.C. Slim (Jan 14, 2010)

Hey there Buzzards lighten up a little...after all it is Durango, where they try to keep the FUN in dysfunctional


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## mania (Oct 21, 2003)

I can't speak for the owners but some of you guys act like a retail business is a charity of some sort for your own personal benefit, when it is often a struggle to make a living and provide jobs. you won't be buying, trying or renting anything locally if your local shop goes out of business. I do know 4crs is a big supporter of the durango kayaking club but they don't have to donate all their swap proceeds. I suggest you start your own boating shop here and try that I would love to hear how it goes paying your rent.


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## Floatin mucho (Mar 25, 2012)

I agree completly. I would gladly donate 25% or even more to a good cause, like ski swap does to the ski patrol. I just feel like the current setup doesn't benefit anybody but 4crs, at the expense of the boating community. They are already going to see profits from the increased foot traffic, sales of accessories to compliment used boats, ect. Share the wealth, or cut the average boater trying to sell some gear a break. When is the jagged edge swap?


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## jmack (Jun 3, 2004)

Mucho- you are still missing the point. Of course the swap benefits 4CRS. That is because they are a business, not a charity. If you don't think it is a good deal, then don't participate. If there are community organizations that are really important to you, then give them some of your own money.


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## [email protected] (Apr 26, 2006)

Floatin mucho said:


> I agree completly. I would gladly donate 25% or even more to a good cause, like ski swap does to the ski patrol. I just feel like the current setup doesn't benefit anybody but 4crs, at the expense of the boating community. They are already going to see profits from the increased foot traffic, sales of accessories to compliment used boats, ect. Share the wealth, or cut the average boater trying to sell some gear a break. When is the jagged edge swap?


This is why it is so hard to make it as a kayak shop, everyone thinks they should be getting some sweet deal. Do you barter for prices when you go to the grocery store and then bitch at them when they give away free food to feed the homeless?


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## Jensjustduckie (Jun 29, 2007)

"This is a business, this is not a charity. You know, I mean maybe one day Unicef will get into the impound business, but you know, until then, we're the people to see" -Greasy impound guy in Joe Dirt


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## dgosn (Sep 8, 2006)

Mucho,

This may come as a shock, but as cool as the guys/gals and owner of 4CRS are their main concern is to make $$$$. I know it's crazy that there isn't a charity designed to support your hobby. However much fun kayaking and rafting may be it's not integral to your biologic needs, ie 4CRS is not tasked with saving your life, keeping you safe, or even keeping you happy for that matter.

Cut these guys a break. Everyone there is an avid outdoorsman, and they try as hard as they can to be competitive. I know living in Durango is a hard task to do affordably, but the owners and employees also live here to and have to pay for the same things you and I do. 

If you don't like the way their swap is structured, don't go. Don't bitch because someone had the balls and took the initiative to risk everything and invest in a retail store in a community known for it's economic harshness towards stores that are supported by discretionary spending. 

In addition to providing a great retail store to the area, 4CRS has also been very instrumental in helping with river access (Animas Corridor Plan, etc...), been instrumental in supporting many community events/charities, as well as being a stable provided of many jobs in an iffy economy. 

I too wish things weren't so expensive and I could afford new gear and take more trips, but I can't and I don't bitch at the store/staff. In fact I love that I can buy most everything I need locally, or order through these guys. 

Check your attitude and be happy you live in a town where there is a river store, and be thankful that store is helping ensure you have river access across the region. Have you noticed how many American made products are in the store? To me that is worth a lot knowing I support local jobs and also help support American manufacturing.


The fact you registered a username a couple days ago just to bitch means you are too spineless to be up front and call this group of great people out. I suggest you stick to pool rafts from Wal Mart, and Natty light from Liquor World, but you should still be thankful 4CRS is still helping secure access for your drunken tubing down the lower Animas.


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## colorado_steve (May 1, 2011)

buy all my river gear at 4 corners. i will pay a little bit more to keep my money local and in durango


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## dbendell (Apr 8, 2012)

Floating Mucho,
hear ya but don't agree, 25% for a weekend is cheap margin for the amount of energy that goes into putting up tents, advertising, labor to staff, it all costs, the last time I went the event it was packed. It is a business and it is not required for you to sell your things. But, if you want exposure this weekend for your products then you pay the margin. Otherwise use their free board inside or Ebay or Craigslist or Mountainbuzz.

You stated your beef but move on, this is business not a charity sponsored event. I worked at FCRS from 1987 thru 1992 I know how much charity this company has given to the community and continues to give. They may not be perfect but they are damn good..


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## shonuffkayak (Feb 2, 2011)

TonyM said:


> Floatin Mucho, we try hard to stick to MSRP, if you paid $40 for an item that had an MSRP of $25 come see me and I will refund you the difference. We also have a price matching policy in place so if you do find an item cheaper somewhere else we will do our best to give you the same deal at our store. As for the swap, it is a fun event, it has worked well for years and if you don't want to be charged a commission we have a bulletin board in the shop you can post your gear on for free. I also agree that craigslist is a great way to sell used gear.
> 
> Shonuffkayak, with used boats we only charge the actual cost of shipping, we make nothing above what the freight companies charge us. Sometimes it's $75, usually it's more. Our current system does not have the ability to have a shipping calculator figure it out online so we put a base charge in and call you with the actual freight charges after we contact several shippers to find the best rate. On new boats we have a little room to eat some of the shipping but on consignment gear the cost of shipping is the buyers responsibility and shipping kayaks is expensive due the the dimensions.


I didn't have a problem with the shipping cost. My problem came with being told ( not online) that it was 75$ bought boat then once purchased told it would be double. I live in Ks and expect to pay for shipping its only fair. Boat was in great shape no complaints there. Just wish details of shipping where more forthright. If im in Durango and needed to purchase something I would shop there. However if ordering I will go through CKS as shipping charges don't seem to fluctuate as extreme. Thanks for my kayak and didn't mean to come across as totally negative just double on shipping threw me for a loop.


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## DurangoSteve (Jun 2, 2006)

This week I had to explain to two local small business owners why the ad agency I work for would NOT buy printing services on their behalf from online printing companies. We only use local printers. Period. "Buy local" isn't just a g'damned slogan, it's economic survival for small businesses, especially those in small markets. Don't be a punk, buy local. 4CRS is a great shop that has earned the bidness of the local boating community.


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## Flying_Spaghetti_Monster (Jun 3, 2010)

Most know I sell hand paddles, and I am constantly ask what is the pro deal. This is often by Class III boaters at best that have never hand paddled. Pro deals, and deals in general are to help companies market their product, and with the right boater I would give a pro-deal. The problem is everyone thinks they are Evan Garcia, and thinks they should pay below wholesale on new gear. I think that is absurd. I am a strong supporter of local shops as long as they are polite. I have talked with 4Corners many times, and even purchased my Sweet Rocker Full Face from them. It was on sale, and I paid around $250 shipping, and everything. I would give them my business any day. I am sure if you have an issue they would try to help you with it. Instead people think they should by pass common decency, and post on here. You have no idea how much time goes into a shop. Think about the hours of sitting there with no business, the amount of power used, paying others to sit there when business is slow, and rent. A few $9 noseplugs do not pay the bills. I bet kayak manufactures can build a kayak for around $300 then they have a mark up, then shipping, and then the shop marks up. Why? Because you can't sell stuff for what you make or buy it for. As a manufacture of hand paddles I sell at retail price regardless. You can either pay retail through me or retail through a shop. People get mad at me for not giving them deals, but it is hard enough with over head to continue to stay in business. Plus I can't undercut my dealers, because they have to make money as well. Maybe you should take a business or an economics class.


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## rg5hole (May 24, 2007)

in 1990 the scuba diving industry was realizing a sudden decline in local scuba shops. This was attributed to online sales of discount dive gear and a surplus of old and aging inventories. Not only did this result in manufacturers themselves failing, but the remaining manufacturers virtually stopped R&D, reef rehabilitation funding, and their funding of emergency services. Cost of a tank fill in 1990 = $3

Today (over an 80% loss of registered dive shops in Florida since 1990) if you can even find a dive shop to rent/fill a tank it costs around $10-15, and unfortunately folks, GarbageMart and the internet don't fill tanks!

we are lucky to have 4Crns! Guilty as I am of shopping elsewhere, even online, they are always happy to entertain me asking for a price match...

Thank you guys! Nice work on the swap this year!


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## mvhyde (Feb 3, 2004)

*Dang...why are all y'all ripping on 4Corner?*

I don't think the prices are bad at all. Next thing you river bums will want is free boats.

4-Corners has always treated my son and I MORE than fair.


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