# Need help from all the AIRE-heads



## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

156R owner here. I haven't ever been in a 156D, but my good friend has a 143D.

6 people is going to be a huge load for overnight/multiday in any boat, but very comfortable in a 156 boat for day trips.

Your needs will change in only a few years. Your 8 and 10 year-olds will be rowing on class II-III in 4 or 5 years, and IV in maybe 6 or 7. All 4 will be getting bigger. I would recommend against dropping $4,500 on a brand-new raft when in a short period of time you will more likely want a quiver than a single raft. Shop for a used one!!

Go for the SFP for cleaning/storage and maneuverability. I went from a Maravia with a dropstitch floor to my 156R with the regular floor pocket. I preferred the maneuverability of the slick, no-ballasted floor.

Short term, you're probably going to be most comfortable in a real 16. You're not going to get a ton of wave action, but you've also got two smaller kids and you DO NOT want a flip. A ways down the road, you might find that a pair of 14's or a 13' and 14' and a 156 or 160 fits your needs better. My old Maravia was a true 16 and I took it down a lot of narrow rivers in the 8 years it was my only boat.


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## wildh2onriver (Jul 21, 2009)

Diminishing tubes gives you more interior room in front and back, but less flotation and a splashier ride for passengers. 15.6 is a great sized boat for smaller/medium sized rivers if its not overloaded.


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## coloradopaddler (Jun 16, 2005)

*E160!*

I went from a 143D, which was awesome, to an E160. I had to upgrade for the growing family too. There are usually two adults and three kids on my boat for trips. They are nine, six, and two. There was no way I could comfortably carry passengers and gear with my old boat, comfortably. I was afraid of the E160 being sluggish and huge compared to the 143D but it isn't at all. I love it and suggest you go that route. Lots of room to move about is good for everyone.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

coloradopaddler said:


> I went from a 143D, which was awesome, to an E160. I had to upgrade for the growing family too. There are usually two adults and three kids on my boat for trips. They are nine, six, and two. There was no way I could comfortably carry passengers and gear with my old boat, comfortably. I was afraid of the E160 being sluggish and huge compared to the 143D but it isn't at all. I love it and suggest you go that route. Lots of room to move about is good for everyone.


Could you comfortably add an additional 10 year-old and still be comfortable/safe for overnight trips?


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## Avatard (Apr 29, 2011)

Look at the inside width and compare to std cooler sizes and dry box sizing. I think 44" is a std long dry box and 40" is typical large. 38 or 36" is std. Not to say you can't add a water jug alongside


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## Gumbydamnit (Apr 2, 2008)

I had a 156 D and you can fit a lot more in the R series. The D series gets real narrow real quick in the bow and stern which makes it hard to rig in my opinion.


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## coloradopaddler (Jun 16, 2005)

I do add water jugs to the sides of my coolers/dry boxes. Our last trip we had two more little ones on our boat for most of the float. I just like the fact that that I can make a paco dance floor on my bow and have a low gear pile in the back with my new boat.


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## verendus (Nov 4, 2012)

Thank you, everyone for the feedback. I will certainly take all the advice into consideration. I will be going with an old serial boat that has warranty. Another boat I am considering is RMR 16' that is full 7'6" with 47 inch inside just like the E160. I don't think I can afford a brand new NRS at the moment. 

I feel like the 156D is a good compromise between size and maneuverability. My biggest concern is whether I will be able to put 4 little kids + wife + frame/gear for 3-4 day trip on flat water with a few class II-III. I will mostly likely let the kids hike on any rapids. 

I am used to living minimally. I think 1 cooler, 1 drybox under my seat, and a dropbag with table/seat in the bow, and the rest of the gear on the stern will do, but the narrow width of 40" and the point that gumbydamnit made worries me. 

It looks like the E160 or any full 16 footer is a huge step up from 156D.


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## verendus (Nov 4, 2012)

Gumbydamnit said:


> I had a 156 D and you can fit a lot more in the R series. The D series gets real narrow real quick in the bow and stern which makes it hard to rig in my opinion.


Is this in comparison to 156R or a full 16 footer? I can't imagine 156D being much smaller than 156R given that R has 22" tube front and back.


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## DRL River Gypsies (May 19, 2010)

My vote is for the D series. It has more rocker to it which should make it handle better. Since you already pack light, you shouldn't need the extra capacity and the D series will have a little more room up front for the little ones to play in. It will be a wetter ride which equals fun too! Until they get cold of course, then you'll never have to worry about them coming again and then you'll be wanting a 13' solo cat boat.

I've had both in the 143 version. The R series held more stuff I didn't need, but the D series was much more enjoyable. There's my .02.


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## Randaddy (Jun 8, 2007)

160DD. The best of both worlds in a boat that can handle some serious weight. Look at Aire's website, it's bad ass. If not, look into the RMR or the Clavey 156R deal posted on a thread here recently.


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## solboater (May 9, 2011)

1 vote for a full tube-R boat and the biggest one you are comfortable running on your smallest rivers, i.e. 16'. I boat the State of Jefferson you mentioned on the Klamath and Rogue with my family as well. Not trying to come off like a nay sayer or jerk but how much experience do you have rigging a self-support gear boat for your family of six on a five day river trip like you mentioned? My experience says even with the best intentions of going minimal your load is going to be significant. Also, you mentioned you are not concerned about the diminished tubes and wetness, I personally would be if I were rowing 3,5,8,10 yr olds and my wife down the river on a multiday. I have found very few other ways to jam up the good vibes than have a wave break over the bow on a windy/cloudy day with the youngbloods getting drenched and the wife getting all kinds of p.o'd. PM me if you ever want any beta on runs north of you that you mentioned I'd be happy to help you out.


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## DoubleYouEss (Oct 4, 2011)

I would also go with the 156R, I have used them commercially for years as paddle rafts and overnight oar rigs. I was able to rig all the gear for a 3 day trip with 6 commercial guests and 2 guides in the 156R without having massive mountains of gear on the front stern bays.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

verendus said:


> I feel like the 156D is a good compromise between size and maneuverability. My biggest concern is whether I will be able to put 4 little kids + wife + frame/gear for 3-4 day trip on flat water with a few class II-III. I will mostly likely let the kids hike on any rapids.


A boat that big should be fine in any II and most III. If you know the riveres, you'll also get an additional level of comfort. Your older kids should be fine in the III stuff, but the younger kids might want their older siblings hiking with them.

How about the E series? Drier ride than the R and definitely drier than the D, and midway between the two for volume.


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## verendus (Nov 4, 2012)

MT4Runner said:


> A boat that big should be fine in any II and most III. If you know the riveres, you'll also get an additional level of comfort. Your older kids should be fine in the III stuff, but the younger kids might want their older siblings hiking with them.
> 
> How about the E series? Drier ride than the R and definitely drier than the D, and midway between the two for volume.


If I were to do more paddling, E would've been great. I think R is probably more suitable as an oar/gear, E as a paddle, and D in the middle. I think your advice makes a lot of sense. Hauling my entire family is really a short-term need. I can really see my two oder doing a ducky in a couple of years, and I will have enough space to carry the gear. I wish I had kept my 12' that I sold, but for now, we simply don't have the space to store two boats.


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## verendus (Nov 4, 2012)

DoubleYouEss said:


> I would also go with the 156R, I have used them commercially for years as paddle rafts and overnight oar rigs. I was able to rig all the gear for a 3 day trip with 6 commercial guests and 2 guides in the 156R without having massive mountains of gear on the front stern bays.


Wow, could you share how you rigged the 156R for 6 guests? I've been looking at some of the photos online trying to figure out rigging options. 

I am planning to get 4 bay frame, with 1 cooler in front of the rower, 1 drybox under the rower's seat, then all the gear in the stern, and under a deck panel for the front passengers, and put the family in the bow area. I can't imagine putting 6 adults with gear on a single 16'.


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## treemanji (Jan 23, 2011)

verendus said:


> Wow, could you share how you rigged the 156R for 6 guests? I've been looking at some of the photos online trying to figure out rigging options.
> 
> I am planning to get 4 bay frame, with 1 cooler in front of the rower, 1 drybox under the rower's seat, then all the gear in the stern, and under a deck panel for the front passengers, and put the family in the bow area. I can't imagine putting 6 adults with gear on a single 16'.


I would also go with the 156R, I have used them commercially for years as paddle rafts and overnight oar rigs. I was able to rig all the gear for a 3 day trip with 6 commercial guests and 2 guides in the 156R without having massive mountains of gear on the front stern bays. 



Yes I would like to see this too. 8 people on a 156R. Why were there two guides on a raft with 6 guests?


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## treemanji (Jan 23, 2011)

verendus said:


> Wow, could you share how you rigged the 156R for 6 guests? I've been looking at some of the photos online trying to figure out rigging options.
> 
> I am planning to get 4 bay frame, with 1 cooler in front of the rower, 1 drybox under the rower's seat, then all the gear in the stern, and under a deck panel for the front passengers, and put the family in the bow area. I can't imagine putting 6 adults with gear on a single 16'.





DoubleYouEss said:


> I would also go with the 156R, I have used them commercially for years as paddle rafts and overnight oar rigs. I was able to rig all the gear for a 3 day trip with 6 commercial guests and 2 guides in the 156R without having massive mountains of gear on the front stern bays.


I meant to multi quote my above post. Unless the custys were in another boat and the gear was in a gear boat.


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## eze420 (Jul 11, 2007)

We had an Aire Trib 14SB for 6 seasons...but just this past summer moved up to a 156R. Spent a fair amount of time researching AIRE models including the 160DD, but wound up buying the 156R.

Very happy so far!


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## pinemnky13 (Jun 4, 2007)

Go for the 156R, I bought one 2 seasons ago and I love it


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## Wavester (Jul 2, 2010)

156R because based on the width between the tubes with the 156D you end up barely fitting a 120 quart cooler and if you you have 6 people you will want the larger cooler for the trips you mentioned. A 156R is 15' 9", almost as large as a 16', I doubt your going to notice a "sporty" ride with a fully loaded 156R or 156D.


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