# NRS Frames and Aluminum rubmarks



## seantana (Mar 5, 2015)

My frame is all NRS with forged lopros, and after 4 years it's not leaving marks. The end caps do start to deteriorate and leave black marks everywhere, but they're cheap and easy to replace.


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## Skyman (Jun 26, 2006)

They will eventually leave rub marks. Even if the aluminum is anodized. The coating wears off after a while. At least on mine and others that have NRS frames that I have seen. Just get some magic eraser and remove the rub marks.


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## Critter70 (Nov 22, 2016)

I HAVE A Bright red boat with a non anadized frame that leaves horrible marks all over it. Mr. Clean magic eraser pads take it off reall easy, boat looks good as new.


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## Ezcruzr (Feb 27, 2008)

My nrs frame left dark marks all over my raft until I covered the lopros with white gorilla tape. No more dark marks on my raft.


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## Dr.AndyDVM (Jul 28, 2014)

On my NRS frames that are only a few years old, the dark mark culprits are the black rubber end caps. They leave bad black marks all over my rubber. I would love to have an alternative that was non marking and didn’t involve duct tape. Maybe a harder plastic made from TPU?


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## codycleve (Mar 26, 2012)

Dr.AndyDVM said:


> On my NRS frames that are only a few years old, the dark mark culprits are the black rubber end caps. They leave bad black marks all over my rubber. I would love to have an alternative that was non marking and didn’t involve duct tape. Maybe a harder plastic made from TPU?


Solution? 

https://frontierplay.com/collections/frame-fittings-save/products/quick-fit-end-cap

Sent from my SM-G920V using Mountain Buzz mobile app


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## Whitewater Worthy Equip (Dec 11, 2013)

codycleve said:


> Solution?
> 
> https://frontierplay.com/collections/frame-fittings-save/products/quick-fit-end-cap
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920V using Mountain Buzz mobile app


You can also buy those directly from Hollander or their online retailer buyrailings.com


As an alternative you can do a rope wrap on the frame where it contacts the boat or build your side decks under the frame.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

You can powdercoat an NRS frame.


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## SherpaDave (Dec 28, 2017)

MT4Runner said:


> You can powdercoat an NRS frame.



Be careful about doing this. Depending on the temp to cure the powder it will take away the strength of the alloy.


Cheers,
Dave


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

Good advice, SherpaDave.


Powdercoating is often at ~400°F. At what temp is the alloy temper/anneal an issue?


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## John the welder (May 2, 2009)

400 F is where you begin to worry. It's a time and temperature issue. If the powder coater knows what they are doing you might loose 5% if not they can loose 30%.


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## SherpaDave (Dec 28, 2017)

6061 is typically aged @ 350-400° so you should be fine if the cure temp is limited to this. Unfortunately a lot of powder coaters have limited experience with aluminum and steel is much less temperature sensitive. However, more shops seem to be getting more work on aluminum wheels and some of the cure temp are even coming down to the 350° range.


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## Electric-Mayhem (Jan 19, 2004)

....the real question is.... what percentage of the pipes/tubes strength does typical or even extreme rafting use?

I suspect that even a 30% (or higher) reduction in strength wouldn't make a difference for rafting use. The only damage I've seen to a frame is in situations that would cause that damage regardless of whether its a perfectly alloyed 6061 tempered to a t6 or compromised by a bit of time in a powdercoating oven that is above ideal temps.


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## k2andcannoli (Feb 28, 2012)

The real question really is why does a few rub marks on your boat matter? I can think of alot of shit I'd rather spend my money on that PCing.


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## Electric-Mayhem (Jan 19, 2004)

k2andcannoli said:


> The real question really is why does a few rub marks on your boat matter? I can think of alot of shit I'd rather spend my money on that PCing.


ha...that too. Though...with my white boat its more noticeable and irksome...but I knew that when I got it.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

Electric-Mayhem said:


> ....the real question is.... what percentage of the pipes/tubes strength does typical or even extreme rafting use?
> 
> I suspect that even a 30% (or higher) reduction in strength wouldn't make a difference for rafting use. The only damage I've seen to a frame is in situations that would cause that damage regardless of whether its a perfectly alloyed 6061 tempered to a t6 or compromised by a bit of time in a powdercoating oven that is above ideal temps.



If you don't have to lose strength...why risk it?




...but if you can have both, it's worth considering. Locally, I think it costs ~$250 to get all the parts powdercoated. Looks really sharp.


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## SherpaDave (Dec 28, 2017)

Electric-Mayhem said:


> ....the real question is.... what percentage of the pipes/tubes strength does typical or even extreme rafting use?



The more significant material property is the Modulus of Elasticity (E) of the pipe. The is the resistance to bending or the ability to bend and return to it's previous shape. This is unlikely to change much in powder coating.

This thread is all teed up for Gary to chime in 😁


Cheers,
Dave


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## Zoner (Apr 21, 2010)

I would rather have the alum wear off on the rubber than vice versa...coatings might wear the rubber.


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## [email protected] (Oct 11, 2018)

NRS unbendable frame pipe is Class III hardcoat anodized, so will not mark until the anodizing is worn away. We've changed the material in the frame plugs so that awful black depositing is now gone!


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## Kilroy (Oct 23, 2011)

Clean with an SOS pad. Comes right off. My SOTAR frame does the exact same thing. 

SherpaDave cracked me up. True bout Gary! 

Sent from my SM-G960U using Mountain Buzz mobile app


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## Elvez (Mar 29, 2005)

*Holy shit, Clyde is that you?*

Glad to hear you're still with NRS. Maybe I'll make it back that way before too, too long. Say hello to the gang for me.

Also, for someone looking to have their stuff powder coated, you can ask your coater to cure your aluminum at a slightly lower temp but for a slightly longer amount of time. If you feel it's important to keep the aluminum below 400, the coating can still be cured at 385, it just has to go for 15 minutes longer. Depends on the powder, but almost all common powders are designed to allow shorter or longer cure times at up to 15 degrees higher or lower cure temp.


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## elkhaven (Sep 11, 2013)

SherpaDave said:


> The more significant material property is the Modulus of Elasticity (E) of the pipe. The is the resistance to bending or the ability to bend and return to it's previous shape. This is unlikely to change much in powder coating.
> 
> This thread is all teed up for Gary to chime in 😁
> 
> ...


He must be back on the meds...

I'm surprised no one has mentioned that the powder coating will wear through too.... it's not made of diamonds. Sure powder coating looks nice but it's not a preventative, just a punt for a few more years... I have aluminum tubing that is worn flat where it sits on my tubes... at least 1/16" of aluminum (and the original annodization) have been turned into black marks.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

elkhaven said:


> I'm surprised no one has mentioned that the powder coating will wear through too.... it's not made of diamonds. Sure powder coating looks nice but it's not a preventative, just a punt for a few more years... I have aluminum tubing that is worn flat where it sits on my tubes... at least 1/16" of aluminum (and the original annodization) have been turned into black marks.



Good point--the anodization is nearly as hard as diamonds.


Powder coating looks awesome...but is not nearly as hard. It will wear through with sandy strap rubs. Also hard to touch up.

I paint my own steel frames, haven't powder coated...but I'd rather have paint than bare galvanizing.





[email protected] said:


> NRS unbendable frame pipe is Class III hardcoat anodized, so will not mark until the anodizing is worn away. We've changed the material in the frame plugs so that awful black depositing is now gone!



Very cool!


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## Paul the Kayaker (Nov 7, 2004)

First, I agree the frame marks don't hurt the boat, but I don't like them either. 

Go to your local carpet shop and get 80"x8" (or your frame length) 1/2'' thick felt/wool carpet runners. I run them under my frame all the time, a pair costs about $30, I replace them every few years. Not only does it keep the marks off, I feel it helps lock the frame onto the raft, frame doesn't slide or budge at all, and adds another layer of rub protection to my tubes. Really kick ass on a single rail frame because the felt is easy to walk on and not slippery at all like your boat can be, on a double rail with decking, you won't even see it. 

Learned this trick from David, the guy who runs the GCBA, his boat was an 80/90's hyside and looked brand new, this was in 2013, the boat was probably 20+ years old easily. Lots of other killer tips I learned from him that trip! 

Forget powder coating or duct tape, this is cheap, simple, and actually works.


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## [email protected] (Oct 11, 2018)

Elvez said:


> Glad to hear you're still with NRS. Maybe I'll make it back that way before too, too long. Say hello to the gang for me.
> 
> Also, for someone looking to have their stuff powder coated, you can ask your coater to cure your aluminum at a slightly lower temp but for a slightly longer amount of time. If you feel it's important to keep the aluminum below 400, the coating can still be cured at 385, it just has to go for 15 minutes longer. Depends on the powder, but almost all common powders are designed to allow shorter or longer cure times at up to 15 degrees higher or lower cure temp.


Hi Ellis, good to hear from you. Was just thinking of you the other day! Please do swing by. Best to ya - Clyde


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## GeoRon (Jun 24, 2015)

Paul the Kayaker said:


> First, I agree the frame marks don't hurt the boat, but I don't like them either.
> 
> Go to your local carpet shop and get 80"x8" (or your frame length) 1/2'' thick felt/wool carpet runners. I run them under my frame all the time, a pair costs about $30, I replace them every few years. Not only does it keep the marks off, I feel it helps lock the frame onto the raft, frame doesn't slide or budge at all, and adds another layer of rub protection to my tubes. Really kick ass on a single rail frame because the felt is easy to walk on and not slippery at all like your boat can be, on a double rail with decking, you won't even see it.
> 
> ...


I've been doing the same trick as Dave for some time. Can't remember if he got the idea from me or the other way around. Regardless, it is almost a perfect solution. I just replaced the "saddle blanket" for my cat frame a few months ago. 

The outdoor carpet I use is more like 3/16" thick and felt on both sides. Ideally, for my cataraft it comes in a six foot width which when cut in half is a perfect three feet wide to drape over and protect the tubes from the top rail, drop bars and cam strap buckles rub. 

Not only is the felt less slippery than my cat tubes it retains water when wetting down the boat on blistering Grand Canyon intensely sunny days which results in a discernibly cooler microclimate around my boat. 

The felty outdoor carpet makes a huge difference reducing "frame rubbing/black" especially when transporting your rigged boat on a trailer which is when most of rub-off seems to occur(all that bouncing around going down Colorado roads(paved or otherwise (vote yes on Amendment 110!))).


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