# Why Colorado snowpack sucks



## Killclimbz (Nov 18, 2004)

Obviously you are resort bound. All I can say is that out of thirteen days out this season I have had nothing less than 10" of untracked snow and as much as 3ft. It's all a matter of perspective.


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## gapers (Feb 14, 2004)

Obviously i'm talking resorts. YES, i've been to the backcountry this season and already rode Wolf Creek for several days. Hell, i had knee-deep before Halloween. Its just not always possible or practical to go into the BC, ya know?


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## cstork (Oct 13, 2003)

Isn't Heavenly low and warm? The powder becomes wet cement and then ice real soon? I ski powder in Colorado 5 days after a dump. 

Isn't there another forum for these snow quesions? Try http://mountainbuzz.com/viewforum.php?f=11


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## cosurfgod (Oct 10, 2003)

I think your name says it all. The skiing has been great down here. Wait, just go to Vail.


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## gapers (Feb 14, 2004)

Sorry stork, i know how amazingly painful and irratating it is to read a post on the wrong forum, what the shit was i thinking. 

When you talk about Colorado powder, are you talking about those epic 4-5 inch dumps we get these days?

And i rode Heavenly powder last year....felt like powder to me.


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## gapers (Feb 14, 2004)

cosurfgod said:


> I think your name says it all. The skiing has been great down here. Wait, just go to Vail.


I think your name says your full of shit, and full of yourself


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## marko (Feb 25, 2004)

I think it has something to do with geopraphics and weather patterns. If it makes you feel better to say that Vail made a deal with the devil then that's great. 

Geographically speaking...how many mountain ranges does a storm have to go throught to get to us? 

This isn't a new thing. Cali, UT, WY always get more snow!


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## mattyb (Oct 31, 2003)

*I am thinking...*

you should quit gaping at the Western mountains and go there or at least quit complaining about the Mall-like qualities of the front range. It is frustrating for me to hear people complain about where they live incessantly and do nothing about it. Moving is always an option. 

Rummy has an intuition you should move to Mill Valley with the hippies... 
he also can't figure out why American soldiers don't Support Our Troops...?


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## rivermanryan (Oct 30, 2003)

I bet Utah is still seeding their clouds!


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## Electric-Mayhem (Jan 19, 2004)

rchristianson said:


> I bet Utah is still seeding their clouds!


Umm....Vail officially announced that it does cloud seeding programs. Not that big a deal. Hell, Colorado Water Board was glad they did it, cause it helped with the supposed drought conditions. Its just different conditions for different areas. Cali has the ocean, Utah, the Salt Lake (no idea if that is the reason but what the hey) and Wyoming has.....something. Colorado gets its days and some times it gets killer seasons that blow the rest of the country out of the water.

Just be glad none of you live in New England, land of entire runs covered in Blue Ice. I always heard New Englanders bitching about the ice, but I never got the appreciation for it till I spent three years there. You truly have it good living here, from an outdoor standpoint. So quit bitchin and just go out skiing, it can't be that horrible. As the slightly aged addage goes " A bad day skiing beats a good day at work".

JH


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## BozonePaddler (Sep 15, 2004)

*CO snowpack sucks???? Gapers is a D-Bag??????*

 What are you talking about???, in fact I will maintain brevity and say that yes you're right colorado snow does suck and you should definitely make sure to stay within the boundaries where all the good snow is(everybody knows that). People with your attitude should pack it up and take your shitty ass attitude up to Keystone and leave all the good snow to the riders with at least a little bit of drive and ingenuity to go out and find where the deep is BC or inbounds. I moved away 5 years ago and I still come back once a year and find freshies whether it is november 1st in the BC or mid febuary right under the lift. :arrow: If you want to find 500 inches a year move out to the coast and ski the oatmeal at hood or mt baker 
Missin the boat' in Montana
Ben


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## Phillips (Feb 19, 2004)

why all the name calling? Didn't Cyndi Lauper teach us anything? It doesn't really matter if you live in the mountains or the city, girls just wanna have fun right? So go home, take some bong hits, pop a few valium and chill. . . Think about the good ole days (late 80's early 90's) when none of the pow ever got tracked except by you and your brah's, brah's. All pow is good, create your own reallity, turn the other cheek.


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## ebaker (Oct 14, 2003)

I love you Kent


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## Phillips (Feb 19, 2004)

Baker. . . "all I know is that there are rumors that your into field hockey players." there are also rumors that we'll be kickin out the jams up in the boat monday the 20th. How about a little Buff pass action sometime while I'm up there. Better get that sled primed. Is that open mic thing stil on? If so we should do a little "Black haired girl"

Oh yeah. . . I love you to man.

kent

PS: Snowpack is always unreal, you just have to be in the right place at the right time. lady luck helps


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## ToddG (Nov 29, 2003)

ooh, nice _Doolittle_ reference!


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## Andy H. (Oct 13, 2003)

Wow, Gapers, sounds like someone pissed on your Wheaties this morning! I know I've enjoyed riding the chairs already. I just have realistic expectations and don't expect big pow pow in the area this early in the season. The notion that November and December are big ski months was dreamed up awhile back by the ski area marketing departments after a good early season or two. They've been pushing early openings and folks have been disappointed ever since. If you're skiing the area on the weekend, this time of the season is for catching first lift, skiing real fast for as many runs as you can, and heading to brunch when the liftlines fill up. 

If you want to go places that are totally sick, the great thing about Colorado is that there's no one at the border stopping you. I remember a guy who did just that a while back - threw down for a place at the base of Kirkwood, bought the $1000 season pass, then was back in Breck in February because there wasn't enough snow that year to even open - they CANCELLED their season - and all the other areas nearby were hurting so bad...

Its lady luck - sometimes she smiles, sometimes not, but in Colorado its you'll have a better winter if you don't have unrealistic expectations. We don't have as many 30-inch storms as some places do but we usually have a decent season.

Like with anything else, attitude's the key. The best ski area in the world is the one you're at on that particular day...

-Andy


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## ebaker (Oct 14, 2003)

Like 14" at the summit this morning!! 

Later...


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## Mountain (Oct 11, 2003)

I'm surprised any one even touched this gapers babble..... Lets see how much snow did Eldora get a while ago so they could open early?.......
Powder to the people.
MM


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## mitgreer (Oct 22, 2003)

Three feet on Teton Pass.


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## sj (Aug 13, 2004)

vail and the Beav are great right now you should head on up. look up cyclitic in websters then talk to someone who lived here 83 thru 96. It'll be right again have faith. peace sj


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## aaron w (Oct 14, 2003)

Hey I'm always wishing for more snow, but bottomless is bottomless. Who cares how deep the base is when you can't feel it anyway? I got a good start on the season and I know that I can expect the same 'ol same 'ol today during my bc outing: soft and fresh. 

I will say though that my true "bottomless powder" days at a CO area have been few and far between. But no complaints from me because I know that my fresh line is out there and I just have to go and get it.


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## Jahve (Oct 31, 2003)

No snow in Colorado? Thats funny I could swear that I have been wading through 3 to 4 of fresh for the past 2 weeks. Colorado may not get the best snow in the world but I for one will be skiing bottomless POW in Colorado for the rest of this season.


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## Brook (Nov 22, 2003)

*Snowing plenty in WY*

Togwotee pass (sp) in Jackson was almost bone dry 2 weeks ago when we arrived. The ski area in town still had grass on it. We filmed there for the last 7 days and it was past our waist when we left! We got almost every sled stuck at one point or another.... Almost too much pow if there is such thing. Have no fear, we will get it sooner or later, (usually later than sooner). Its still early for CO.


Footage from Togwotee pass:
http://www.arcticcat.com/snowmobiles/downloads.asp


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## Phillips (Feb 19, 2004)

Nice attention to detail Todd G, I was wonderin who'd get that.

Kent


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## mitgreer (Oct 22, 2003)

Jackson Hole, strange weather going on here. Cold as shit, 3ft dump and then rain . Scary!!


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## Blumpkin (Oct 31, 2003)

Just be thankful you didn't move back to the DC area to go to grad school after having lived in Vail for 3 years. The skiing here is virtually non-existant. This sucks (although I can paddle year round without too much of a drive). Booth, stop leaving me voice mails about how much snow you guys just got or how many powder runs you just made. I'm starting to get pissed off - I'm gonna have to fly back out there to show you how it's done!


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## Killclimbz (Nov 18, 2004)

gapers said:


> Obviously i'm talking resorts. YES, i've been to the backcountry this season and already rode Wolf Creek for several days. Hell, i had knee-deep before Halloween. Its just not always possible or practical to go into the BC, ya know?


I've never had a problem getting into the BC. If I'm going to the resort I have enough time to hit backcountry. The resort will get their due. I've never had a problem finding knee deep powder at Colorado resorts, but then again I don't give up my stashes either.


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## JCKeck1 (Oct 28, 2003)

Yo Kent! Good to see you out and active in the community - I thought that the g-friend had gotten the best of you! We need to hook up and make some turns.
Joe 
303 594-9733

P.S. I gotta throw down a defense of Keystone, which happens to be my home mountain. It's true that in past years it was the red-headed stepchild of vail, but now good shit is going down. The KAT skiing tours are accessing all of the open above timberline powder. Also, the park will be awesome this year - the superpipe is nearing completion. Plus for all of you naysayers, I skiied shin deep powder on the outback all day on Friday.


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## Phillips (Feb 19, 2004)

Yeah Bud she's lettin me out for a little air. Only been up once this year but it was cherry. You know it takes me a week to recover these days after anything over a foot. Wolf creek was sweet a few weeks ago. I managed to get 3 hikes off Alberta chair and a couple somewhere else (I'm not really sure, but there was about 15 turns of 30 - 35 degreeish stuff). Yeah man I wanna get up and do some of that Kat skiin. Do I gotta deal with all the lifts and stuff at Keystone? They kinda make me nervous. I'm old and scared you know

Kent


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## gapers (Feb 14, 2004)

still sucks


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## Phillips (Feb 19, 2004)

yup. . . no reason to go up unless your really bored or like groomers way too much.


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## ebaker (Oct 14, 2003)

Boo hooo....That's right, stay out of the hills...no fun to be had up here. Guess the only good news is that the avy danger is moderate-low around here. Merry Christmas to you and yours Kent.


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## Andy H. (Oct 13, 2003)

Yep, I made the mistake of going skiing this morning. I should have stayed home and cleaned the bathroom and reorgainzed my sock drawer! The snow sucks and won't be any good until April or May so don't bother geting off the couch anytime soon - just find those Bugs Bunny re-runs and pack another one... 

Hopefully the Grinch will be coming on soon!

--Andy


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## ID Surfer (Nov 6, 2003)

If it's any consolation, it pretty much blows up here as well. I here somthing may be brewin' up for the end of the week.


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## zhensley (Mar 12, 2004)

*all you have to do is look at the snow pack*

All the regions are below average.. That doesn't mean there will not be powder... yes it does still snow even though the levels are below average, and yes when it snows it does result in powder. Just don't expect a record braking year, for both powder days and flows in the spring.. Unless we start getting some more snow. Oh yeah and the snow pack at vail is 65% of average...


Zach


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## cosurfgod (Oct 10, 2003)

Where did you get your info? In the San Juans we are right at average and are expecting a big storm this week. All we need is average and we will have a great boating year. 

Sorry it sucks in summit county.  

frontrangers :roll:


The Arkansas is %102 of average, the Gunni drainage is at 106% of average and the Rio Grande drainage is at 101% of average.


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## ebaker (Oct 14, 2003)

It doesn't suck, you just have to look for it.


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## zhensley (Mar 12, 2004)

actually, I should restate.. all of the levels are AT or below average.. the most current info I found from. ftp://ftp.wcc.nrcs.usda.gov/data/snow/update/co.txt state that the levels in the gunnison river basin are at 101% and the ark is at 102% and the rio grande is at 97%. 

Yeah there will be water come spring time, but it is not going to be anything special, unless we start to get some snow. At the begining of the season everything started well above average but if you have been watching these snow pack levels it has been dropping.. Novemeber was a good month but December has been a week.

Front range or not.. I have a car.


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## Surfpimp (Aug 12, 2004)

Z... you got to have a little faith. You're talking about one or two percentages. December is usually dry. All that will change after this storm. Twist one up and go roll around in the powder, it will make you feel better.  

Colorado is getting over crowded, as "mattyb" says, you can always move.


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## zhensley (Mar 12, 2004)

yeah, I agree... need to have a little faith and I was pretty hopeful at the bgeining of the year. Supposedly this drought is supposed to last 10 years.. and we are on the 8th or 9th years or something like that. With more people moving here I think water is going to become a bigger and bigger issue.

I am a fourth generation Coloradan and now it has reached the point where you have to leave by 5:45 in the morning to miss traffic to go skiing at the "resorts". I have been kayaking for 12 years and the way the sport is going in 10 years you are going to have to wait in line to run a river. I am not one of thos huge pro colorado native folks... ie like the people that have lived here for 10 years and all of a sudden have a colorado native sticker on their car. I am all for people moving here from cali or wherever, although I tend to favor the females coming from cali a little more This state has definitely changed a lot in the past 10 - 15 years. Curious as to how the next 10 years are going to be but something like Monanta that represents the old Colorado might be a better place to live.


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## merry prankster (Mar 22, 2004)

Zach,
This part of the season doesn't matter as much as the february-April precip. That's the period that makes or breaks the Coloradon Basin and I am assuming the Platte as well. Here's a decent chart reflecting on slide 12 of this presentation.

http://www.cbrfc.noaa.gov/present/2004/caesars_new_2004.pdf

You can also plot individual years here:
http://www.cbrfc.noaa.gov/snow/snow.cgi

The physical difference in snow water equivalencey of only a couple of inches can make a huge difference percentage wise. Latter in the season, this isn't he case as average goes from 5 to 6 inches to somewhere in the neighborhood of 30. You've also got to take into account the elevation of the individual snowtel sites. Most of the lower zones aren't doing all that well, whereas the upper elevations have almost half of their season snowpack. PRPC2 -- Porphry creek -- is a pretty good example. These lower sites generally aren't the ones that give a decent indication for runoff on some of the more popular creeks.

Anyway. it's too early to know how the runoff's going to turn out. The rain in the San Juan basin from the remnants of Javier helped to fill up some of the soil tanks before the snow fell, and last summer was a pretty rainy one along the front range. Sit tight and do a little snowdance.


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## zhensley (Mar 12, 2004)

ok ok ok... good point... maybe I am being bitter guy here. I'm doing my snow dance..


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