# Death on the ark?



## liquidchaos (Jul 11, 2005)

I heard that there may have been a commercial rafting death on the numbers.  If anyone has any info that would be great, my regrets to the family, friends, guides and the company. be safe out there!


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## gh (Oct 13, 2003)

not sure i understand the curiousity about this unless you were involved. i have seen a lot of these threads this year. are you reporters and just trolling for info? the tool song, vicarious comes to mind when people post these threads.


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## Jahve (Oct 31, 2003)

It does seem like liquidcaos is "johnny on the ball" when it comes to bad accidents. I am sure he started one if not all the threads about the other deaths on the ARK this year. 

So what givs caos - do you sit around and wait by the radio scanner for bad stuff to happen then post about it? Why such a fetish with death on the river? You seem to know just enough info, just soon enough - if you lived around here you would know what you are asking.

So again caos what gives? You love these unavoidable accidents or what?


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## liquidchaos (Jul 11, 2005)

Sorry you guys feel this way. I am not that guy who is on his scanner chasing ambulances. I am involved from several angles, guide, rescuer, and trainer. I know of some of the accidents from the rumor mill and from being out there. The incidents I am not on I like to have a location and a report of the scenario to help in teaching and hopefully to prevent any further mishaps if that is possible. So the information will never go from me to a newspaper or someone who does not need to know, simply for a learning experience to help prevent future tragedies. Once again my condolences to his family, freinds, the company and the guide. No one ever wants to deal with this.... feel free to pm me if you dont think this should be public.


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## gh (Oct 13, 2003)

I am not condemning your method just curious. There have always been accident reports on this site but its more of a report than a probe. It made me curious when the attitude changed. We report the incidents to AW and I think this is a good place to discuss these things openly and hopefully without condemnation.


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## soylent green (Jul 8, 2004)

Everyone who is judging Chaos also clicked on this thread. Human nature, we're all gapers.


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## paddlebizzle (Oct 15, 2003)

> Everyone who is judging Chaos also clicked on this thread. Human nature, we're all gapers.


Soylent - "Death On The Ark?" I can't count the number of friends yesterday out yesterday on Pine Creek to Numbers, and I'm not in the minority here.

It's a gross feeling reading a post like this in the past and then going upstairs to check my cell phone and seeing 25 voicemails that built up while I was blissfully sleeping in my bed. It's happened before.

Ironically I stoked some friends from grad school on rafting and kayaking, and convinced them to hire a trip on the Numbers yesterday. Thankfully, they're fine, but when I see a post like this, you're damn right that I'm going to read it.

These posts generate a huge number of hits. There are definitely a fair share of gapers, but I think that many buzzards are trying to find out if they knew the person and if not, a) learn from what happened, and b) get condolences and support out as fast as possible.

So. . . what the heck happened?


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## basil (Nov 20, 2005)

Yea, let's not be too harsh. Many of us are interested because we realize it could be us next time--and we want to learn from these incidents.


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## oopsiflipped (May 9, 2006)

basil said:


> Yea, let's not be too harsh. Many of us are interested because we realize it could be us next time--and we want to learn from these incidents.


There is a time for learning and a time for mourning. Give those involved some time for the latter before the former takes place.


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## Savage A.G. (May 28, 2007)

I suspect the best time for learning is when something is as current as possible. Unfortunately the only time a lot of people think about a swiftwater rescue course is they are faced with an immediate and often tragic reality.
Not all accidents and tragic outcomes are preventable, but wouldn't it be great if everyone had some modest rescue skills and basic competency.

I am eager to read about any and all serious accidents. I hope boaters that paddle the rivers and creeks I am on feel the same way.
-Dan


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## WhiteLightning (Apr 21, 2004)

This is a legit question. A lot of rumors and assumptions fly around out there, best to know what is going on. Also, if there was a hazard on the river that caused the accident, a head boatman for a raft company like L.C. (no, not a reporter) would want to know asap. Also everyone always wants to know if it was someone we know.


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## bobbuilds (May 12, 2007)

i just wanted to say that in my whole two seasons i've been paddling (this being in my second season we are current-ly in) ............ I'm a pro . 
no , but seriously why is it death in this sport is not talked of ? We die , newbees , pros , kayakers , tubers . i think it helps . one thing i have learned here is that we will progress with our abilitys as long as we relax in the mind . these people are amazing (pros) . but one bad party the night before or a bad morning or plane ride or just the pre-shit ritual in the woods goes wrong and your day goes sour . you need to feel it and if not walk , climb , or swim . In the case of some we need to judge our abilitys as we rent these kayaks and inflatables , and in booking your raft trips . you need to know the water levels and relative flows of these rivers . Don't just jump on a tube in the first week of june and drink balls down a river because man that water is moving fast . thank's for the beer though. Please i guess all i'm trying to say is be safe and dont probe for the wrong reasons because karma and that state of mental readiness is what keep us alive on the river . Thats what i belive and thinking back on my TWO veteran count that... Two , I have learned much humility and commit to my entrances with clean lines and a clean conscience . 

be safe


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## heliodorus04 (May 31, 2005)

All that being said about discussing river deaths...

Was there one on the Ark this weekend?


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## ystrdaysmilk (Mar 8, 2007)

Yes, there was a death on the Ark on Saturday. It happened after a commercial raft flipped in the boat chute or silver bullet rapid just south of town. The victim floated all the way past the the US 285 bridge until she was brought to shore with the help of a private raft. CPR began immediately and continued for over and hr. The EMTs arrived within 20 minutes of the call going out. It's not clear when the victim went unconscious but she was unresponsive as she floated face down past the US 285 bridge.


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## mania (Oct 21, 2003)

Woman dies near Silver Bullet Rapid


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## OleMissBoater (May 22, 2007)

mania said:


> Woman dies near Silver Bullet Rapid


Thank you for the article link.

I don't think it's necessarily morbid of one to want to know how a bad accident turned out... 

And let's face it - there aren't a lot of places to turn to for news about such an accident.

I'm sorry to hear about such an accident, my thoughts and prayers are with their family and guide.


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## Id725 (Nov 22, 2003)

I have encouraged many friends and family members to raft in the past.
And I typically have said something like "Yes, it can be dangerous (like anything), but rafting deaths in class 3 and class 4 water are very rare. If you're healthy and listen to your guide, you'll be fine."

Except, at least this season, rafting deaths are not rare. There have been a handful at least -- At least one in Royal Gorge, at least one in Brown's Canyon and now one near BV (is this the Fractions?).

So can anybody tell me -- is this an unusual season? Or are there a number of deaths every year on the Ark, and they're just getting more exposure this season?

As an avid kayaker and somebody always trying to get more people onto the river, I just want to know what I'm talking about so I don't mislead anybody.
So how rare or how common are these incidents? Can any longtime Ark Valley residents help with this question?

My genuine sympathy to those that have lost loved ones this year on our beautiful river.

-Mike Griffin


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## OleMissBoater (May 22, 2007)

Id725 said:


> I have encouraged many friends and family members to raft in the past.
> And I typically have said something like "Yes, it can be dangerous (like anything), but rafting deaths in class 3 and class 4 water are very rare. If you're healthy and listen to your guide, you'll be fine."
> 
> Except, at least this season, rafting deaths are not rare. There have been a handful at least -- At least one in Royal Gorge, at least one in Brown's Canyon and now one near BV (is this the Fractions?).
> ...


I don't think there is a lot of rhyme or reason why it happens or doesn't happen. 

All of last season there was one death... now there have been 3 by the middle of June this year.


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## tellutwurp (Jul 8, 2005)

@Id725, this is below the fractions...I think they call it the town run or Milk run or something.


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## mountainbuns (Feb 19, 2004)

Id725 said:


> So can anybody tell me -- is this an unusual season? Or are there a number of deaths every year on the Ark, and they're just getting more exposure this season?
> 
> -Mike Griffin


 
In high water years accidents tend to go way up. In 1995, a very high water year, there were ~ 14 boating deaths in Colorado, including several with commercial companies. I'll check the stat at home and repost... I've got a newspaper clipping from that year, when I was a guide based on the Ark.


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## yetigonecrazy (May 23, 2005)

was it last summer or was it the year before that there was 11 deaths in CO alone?

bottom line- its a dangerous sport, and i think most people know that and acknowledge it. i think most people read these reports just so they can find out if they have lost a friend or a loved one- and not from morbid curiosity.

my condolences, and everyone be safe out there.


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## basil (Nov 20, 2005)

The rapid that caused the flip isn't the Milk Run. The Milk Run starts at Johnson Corner. 

The rapid is the notorious boat chute on a diversion dam between BV & Johnson Corner. I've heard that this boat chute is tricky. I've never seen. Does anyone have a picture of it at this water level?


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## heliodorus04 (May 31, 2005)

yetigonecrazy said:


> was it last summer or was it the year before that there was 11 deaths in CO alone?


My first year boating, 2005, there were a lot. I believe the Eagle, or was it the Yampa, claimed 3 in one day, plus a pair on another day, IIRC.

Id, if you go to the American Whitewater (cough cough JOIN cough cough) website, you can check all the fatalaties in any given region of the US. There aren't many, nation-wide, from my perusal (I guess I'm the really morbid one).

Interestingly, the last year I checked for, 2006, there were more fatalaties in Class 2-4 than Class 5. Statistics being what they are, that makes sense - more people doing those sections.

I don't have any problem recommending my friends raft any part of the Ark at all.


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## Nathan (Aug 7, 2004)

Technically the section is the bv town run, everything says it is class II, III but that does not give the boat chute credit for what it is. I think this was a weird accident from what I have heard on it and I'm curious to see what the report comes up with. Be careful out there and respect the rivers.


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## 30yearboater1 (Jun 19, 2007)

*I was there for the second half.*

I have remained silent long enough. This is Class V+ to wright.

First everyone that I met at the site did all that they could. From the private boaters in the cat that gave chase to all of the WA personnel that supported the final outcome. The emt's / fire fighters / ambulance crew / were first rate. 

Rarely do we as boaters (rafters / kayak er / ect) do we have access to such quick response as along the Ark. Many people take this for granted.

I learned very old school. Always respect the river, never try to beat it and never give up.

There is a lot of munusia out there on this this incident (as with most). Form the second hand knowledge I have (from the cat that gave case) the incident happened at the BV dam.

I was at WA's launch at JV. I threw a throw rope directly across the victims chest. (face up at the time). The victim was unresponsive.

My group topped off a boat and another person and I gave chase behind the cat. By the time we caught up to the other group (the cat) they had pulled the victim in and were doing CPR.

My point in all of this is you never know when you will be called on, always be ready, and know what you are in for. 

For all of you 10- no 15- year boaters you have not seen enough. It is not about the Class of river you are running, it is about the RISK factors. (water temp, age, health, type of river flow ect...) Learn from others.

I wish the family of the victim the very best.


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## Boat-ERS (Apr 15, 2005)

To the friends and family of the victim, I am truly sorry for your loss. 

From the 4 kayakers that were at the JV take out when the company came through later in the afternoon: we are truly sorry for invading in your time to debrief and grieve. We were not aware of what had happened earlier, if we had any idea we would have given you your space. We are sorry for invading during that time. Two of us are former guides and have both dealt with commercial deaths in WVa, it is hard thing for a company and a group of people (knowing how close you become with your co-guides). I don't pretend to know what you are going through because every situation is different. Now knowing some of the story we feel very dumb for not seeing the signs coming from your guides. Again we are sorry, and thank you for the ride.


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## Matt J (May 27, 2005)

*with all due respect*

To those of you that posted an inquiry concerning this or other recent grave incidents it is important to respect the nature of the situation. In what has become a very litigious culture please remember that emails or in this case forum posts are forever. It should be expected that those that were directly involved in a fatality are not running to their computer to report on the incident and so much of what you read immediately afterwards is heresy. I think you will find that many fatal accidents are reported on this forum as well as on Boatertalk in a timely fashion and without outside inquiry.

That being said the AW database is not a complete resource for whitewater accidents. The safety coordinator is diligent in incorporating information from these forum posts into the accident report database, but as you might expect some fatal accidents and near misses are never reported.

I write this only to encourage those of you that seek information for educational purposes to take the whole picture into account.

As conscientous whitewater enthusiasts many of us look for a lesson in the accidents that occur in our sport. This is not unique to riversport as many of you are familiar with "Accidents in Mountaineering" as published by the American Alpine Institute.

In regards to this accident I think it is fair to reaffirm that the breached structure known as the "Silver Bullet" is a very serious hazard and one not to be taken lightly whether being navigated commercially or privately. Hopefully we as a river community can work towards eventually mitigating some of the risk in this very unnatural hazard.

Might our best service be to take a moment to remember all the victims in this unfortunate incident and wish due prudence upon all participants of riversport.


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## raftus (Jul 20, 2005)

Id725 said:


> So can anybody tell me -- is this an unusual season? Or are there a number of deaths every year on the Ark, and they're just getting more exposure this season?
> 
> As an avid kayaker and somebody always trying to get more people onto the river, I just want to know what I'm talking about so I don't mislead anybody.
> So how rare or how common are these incidents?


AW came up with this: "We calculated a fatality rate of 0.86 whitewater fatalities per 100,000 boaters, or 2.25 private boater deaths per 100,000 and 0.45 commercial boater deaths per 100,000. The river with the greatest number of deaths was the Arkansas in Colorado, with 17 deaths in five years." These numbers came from study of 30 managed rivers that supplied data for 1994-1998.

So just over 3 deaths per year on the Ark is common based on the study data.

For reference you can check out a chart on boatertalk with fatality rates for other activities like driving, skiing, and various diseases: http://www.boatertalk.com/forum/RaftZone/1241253

aw link: American Whitewater - Whitewater is Safer Than You Think


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## Ed Hansen (Oct 12, 2003)

Id725 said:


> So can anybody tell me -- is this an unusual season? Or are there a number of deaths every year on the Ark, and they're just getting more exposure this season?
> 
> -Mike Griffin


 
I think that whitewater deaths are just occuring sooner in the calander year than usual. Remember when the rivers peaked toward the end of June? Now they start to rise a few weeks earlier, so the deaths are still occuring around the peak flows, only the peak flows (Global Warming?) seem to happen sooner. By the time you are mentally ready for high water, it has come, gone or passing.

Now someone could look back into archives and find me totally wrong, (I'm going by fuzzy memory, not research), but that's how it seems to me.


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