# Split Buzz into Rafting forum and Creek/Freestyle/SUP forum?



## craporadon (Feb 27, 2006)

It seems like this board has become mainly about rafting. Skiers and snowboarders don't go to the same forums. It would make sense to separate rafting and kayaking on here since "What cooler should I buy" has become the hottest topic on here since Range Life stopped posting. I like rafting, I like just about every rafter I've ever met and even feel a brotherhood to rafters but the forum synergy is just not there. 

Maybe I'm missing the point and all the kayakers have migrated to fb anyway and forums are just obsolete. All the kayakers were reading about Hendri for 3 days before it was on the today show and a rafter posted about it on here. Rush's sick new video trailer has been out for a week and no one bothers to put it on here since everyone has already watched it on fb. Guess I just answered my own question, RIP to talking shit on the buzz.


And as any kayaker knows, buy whatever damn cooler is cheapest so you have more money for beer.


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## gh (Oct 13, 2003)

Why not just post the video?


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## stubby (Oct 13, 2003)

craporadon said:


> And as any kayaker knows, buy whatever damn cooler is cheapest so you have more money for beer.


As long as it's cold.

And I conquer. Probably be best if we split up for a while, ya' know, have our own space.


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## Randaddy (Jun 8, 2007)

It's called the Boater's Forum because people in a variety of crafts enjoy going on the river together. Kayakers go on long overnight trips with rafters, rafters often also kayak, we all hang out at the same bars, and all enjoy the sensation of reading whitewater and floating on the current.

Should we also make a Canoe Forum, an IK Forum, how about a River Board Forum. Sorry Crap (I hope you don't mind me calling you Crap), but that's a stupid idea. We're all boaters on here and it's a small enough niche.


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## latenightjoneser (Feb 6, 2004)

Agreed, but put SUP with rafters


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## Kendi (May 15, 2009)

Best reason- FB is blocked at work and MB isn't! :-D


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## boatdziner (Jul 7, 2005)

I always find it interesting when people complain about lack of content on a forum. Dating way back to RBP and the Sponsons threads people were complaining about why there is so much junk on the forum and not enough interesting threads. It's as if the forum is there so that other people can post stuff that will entertain you.

If you want to have interesting discussions on the Buzz in regards to kayaking then start posting some interesting threads. Last I checked, nobody was stopping you from making a new thread. I can understand a gripe with people posting cooler questions in the boating forum since all of that belongs in the Gear Talk space but if you are talking about river trips then it belongs on the Buzz.

It's the middle of winter right now and most of us are staring at lots of snow and at least a few months before the paddling gets back in motion. I guess most of the kayakers are either out there getting it done on the slopes or they have moved to warmer climates. The rafters are all getting permits filled out and thinking about upgrading their rigs for the coming season. Therefore there are a lot of posts about rafting and nothing about kayaking. Sorry.

BTW, we all know that the people that have the time to post are the ones that aren't out there doing it!

Dan


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## okieboater (Oct 19, 2004)

randaddy, in my opinion, has it right.

I raft, kayak and canoe. It's all boating to me. Just depends on what boat gets the trip done.

Leave the Buzz as it is.


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## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

Doesn't this get brought up every off-season? 

For many reasons, it's nice to keep it together. There's enough bullshit in life splitting up factions, let alone having to make the Buzz another one where we can't mix. If we can't even share a stupid internet forum, how are we going to share the river? I like bumping into kayaking threads, often they contain a lot more info about rowdier boating and safety, which is interesting to me as I continue to progress into more difficult runs.

This forum, as every other, is what we make it. If there's nothing going on that you like, start something yourself. If you get tired of cooler or any other type threads, just ignore them. If you don't have any control over your mouse finger or what you look at on the internet, join a gym to tire yourself out and quit whining, or head over to Boatertalk.


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## mania (Oct 21, 2003)

I think the time has come to split. there is way too much talk about coolers, oar length, 6 bay frames, tube diameter, motors, trailers, straps, turkey legs, etc for kayakers to weed though (and I am primarily a rafter).


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## nmalozzi (Jun 19, 2007)

i think we just all need to get better searching for raft info, and when someone does post a question that's already been answered we need to reply with a link to the appropriate thread and close the new one. also, it seems like threads posted in the wrong forum just need to be moved by staff. i honestly never ever look at the buzz in forum view. just "most recent" so i never really notice where topics are in particular. are threads not being moved to the correct forum in a timely fashion?


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## shappattack (Jul 17, 2008)

I raft, I kayak, I snowboad and tele ski, I trad climb, I sport climb, I aid climb, I fly fish, I fish with a worm, I fish with a plug. Maybe you should diversify and have a lot more fun.


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## glenn (May 13, 2009)

Oh this thread again. They aren't going to split. Get over it.


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## Andy H. (Oct 13, 2003)

This comes up about every year; sometimes getting a little more attention or volume. Usually the Buzzards come to the consensus pretty quickly that lots of folks do both and, as Randy so eloquently stated above:



Randaddy said:


> It's called the Boater's Forum because people in a variety of crafts enjoy going on the river together. Kayakers go on long overnight trips with rafters, rafters often also kayak, we all hang out at the same bars, and all enjoy the sensation of reading whitewater and floating on the current..


In the words of one of the great philosophers: "We don't want this to be like a skier - snowboarder thing."

*For future reference:*

*What to do when someone's posting in the wrong forum:*
You can report a post using the little triangular red and white button under the poster's MB ID and summary info, to the lower left of the post. If you see something that obviously belongs in a different forum, please report it and one of the mods will dive into a nearby phonebooth and come out ready to click some cursor and put that errant post where it belongs. 

*Which also brings up Spam Reporting:*
Reporting posts especially applies when you see someone hawking Nikes, Nokkias, or otherwise non-boating related stuff, and please don't hesitate to report drive-by whitewater advertising that belongs in the "commercial posts" section. We could also use a hand when you see a thread bumped from a couple of years ago with a post that seems like it was put up by someone who's never been on the water and joined up in the current month. 

Thanks,

-AH


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## goldcamp (Aug 9, 2006)

nmalozzi said:


> i think we just all need to get better searching for raft info, and when someone does post a question that's already been answered we need to reply with a link to the appropriate thread and close the new one. also, it seems like threads posted in the wrong forum just need to be moved by staff. i honestly never ever look at the buzz in forum view. just "most recent" so i never really notice where topics are in particular. are threads not being moved to the correct forum in a timely fashion?


I hate it when people suggest using the search feature more. It's like they're saying everything about a certain subject has been written... whats the point of these forums if we can't ask questions even they have been asked before.


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## nmalozzi (Jun 19, 2007)

goldcamp said:


> I hate it when people suggest using the search feature more. It's like they're saying everything about a certain subject has been written... whats the point of these forums if we can't ask questions even they have been asked before.


The point is if you have questions about "xyz" then search for it and see if it's been discussed already. Want more info on "xyz" then ask your question in the thread that's already started instead of having 10 "xyz" threads. Never said the discussion has to end because it was already asked. Just check to see if a discussion has already been started. I love when someone searches a topic and bumps an old multipage thread with a new question or updated info. I've learned more about rafting from that alone then anything. Gives everyone a chance to read up on what's already been said.


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## fatbob (Apr 11, 2008)

why have two forums? so we can put this "let's hold hands and get along" crap in the rafting-SUP forum. you can put it right under the "yeti makes good coolers" post.


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## gh (Oct 13, 2003)

lhowemt said:


> Doesn't this get brought up every off-season?


Yes, every winter.


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## craporadon (Feb 27, 2006)

Even girl kayakers get their own forum, Betty Buzz. So it just makes sense there should be a separate rafter forum as well as a seperate SUP forum. Just call them Airhead Buzz and River Blader Buzz.


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## steven (Apr 2, 2004)

i agree with the idea to split it up. some want to read/post about just kayaking, some rafting, some SUP. if you want to read posts about all, just go to each (potentially) seperate forum.


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## Smurfwarrior (Feb 23, 2009)

My god, is it too much trouble to look past the threads that don't interest you? Leave it.


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## mania (Oct 21, 2003)

It comes up every year because its VALID. why does saying "it comes up every year" somehow make it invalid?


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## doublet (May 21, 2004)

Split them! I'm tired of rafter talk!!!!

And post that damn Rush video. Apparently my facebook friends suck.


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## kayakfreakus (Mar 3, 2006)

Rush's River Roots trailer for Frontier:

river roots | home

Looks pretty sweet, and glad I browse boatertalk since I refuse to social network 

I say split the forums as well, helps keep things organized. It is just as easy to click into another forum as it is to ignore posts in the same forum. But my biggest complaint (which has not happened this year *yet*) is the overkill political arguing in the Eddy, when it happens I do not want to see those posts included in the most recent posts page that a lot of us use.


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## CGM (Jun 18, 2004)

Split 'em....rafters are d-bags and kayakers are prima donna's, no need to intermingle.
Mountain Buzz is dead anyway.
Doublet, if I hadn't quit FB, your daily feed would be much improved. Screw the internet...its for cubicle jockeys, tweeny-boper's and Sean Lee.


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## deepsouthpaddler (Apr 14, 2004)

I agree... create a rafters forum and kayakers forum. People who want to see all content can look at new posts, and its essentially the same as it is now. Kayakers who want kayak only content can have it. There isn't currently any way for kayakers who have no interest in rafting content to bypass it without wading through it. 

Its a legit request, one that would enhance the function of the buzz, and one that would make a lot of kayakers happy. 

Comments like "skip over it" are useless. If it was just one post, then it would be valid, but skipping over 50% of the content takes time, and computers... gasp... can be easily configured to make things quicker and easier. 

I personally would like to be able to check into the buzz... take a quick look and see what new kayak content is there, and if I want, explore further. 

There is no concensus... a good segment of the buzz would appreciate this type of change, and if done smartly, it wouldn't negatively impact function it would improve it.

While we are at it, whats the plan with the flows page? I'm a diehard AW supporter, but for flows, the AW page sucks. The old buzz had a really slick and condensed flows page that allowed you to assess flows across the entire state with a quick look. Eddyflower had great run content, but made checking the flows more complicated. It would be great to see a better flows utility. I'm a gauge geek and I know where to go to check the nitty gritty details of all the gauges I want, but it sure would be nice to get a simple flows at a glance set up again.


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## caverdan (Aug 27, 2004)

craporadon said:


> Even girl kayakers get their own forum, Betty Buzz. So it just makes sense there should be a separate rafter forum as well as a seperate SUP forum. Just call them Airhead Buzz and River Blader Buzz.


 We could call the kayakers....speed bump buzz:mrgreen::mrgreen::mrgreen:


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## lmyers (Jun 10, 2008)

mania said:


> It comes up every year because its VALID. why does saying "it comes up every year" somehow make it invalid?


Because it only comes up in the winter, when most rocky mountain kayakers are enjoying the snow. Nobody complains about it during runoff.


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## [email protected] (Apr 26, 2006)

My main problem with rafters on the forum is that they have to much logical discussions and not enough talk of meat huckin and shit talking, basically they are just a bunch of pussies.


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## rebel1916 (Aug 20, 2010)

I do both. Leave it the way it is.


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## latenightjoneser (Feb 6, 2004)

Class IV & V kayakers can be diabolically opposed to rafters/PUSsers. I am not sure admins recognize this. Its like letting skate skiers into a snowboarder party. In a sense, this is a skier vs snowboarder thing, and for good reason. And no, we dont have to get along.


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## BoilermakerU (Mar 13, 2009)

deepsouthpaddler said:


> ...Its a legit request, one that would enhance the function of the buzz, and one that would make a lot of kayakers happy...


Oh, by all means then. Whatever it takes to keep the kayakers happy... 

I say leave it. At least it gives us something to argue about every winter... LOL

One thing a lot don't seem to get at places like this is that stuff takes time to develop and moderate (putting threads in their "proper" places). Maybe not much, but these admins and moderators do this stuff in their free time, time I am sure they'd rather be doing something else. So, from that aspect alone, I'd say leave it. 

You can't please everyone anyway...


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## hojo (Jun 26, 2008)

If people used the forum structure properly they this wouldn't be an issue. Gear talk exists for a reason.


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## TonyM (Apr 17, 2006)

*Leave it*

Leave it alone. Is it really that bad to see what other aspects of river recreation are being explored? Broaden your scope, learn some respect for what other people are doing. Only by being a unified front will the river community be able to overcome obstacles that like the BS on the Taylor, access to Bakers, ect...


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## Canada (Oct 24, 2006)

*I find the blend interesting*

I am amazed at how much thought goes into frame design, oar lentght, etc. I'm frankly envious they have something to tinker with on winter nights. One of the SUP videos last year had a guy that was ripping it up and was very cool. So, I would vote to leave it as is. Even the cross talk garbage from the Eddy seems to have dissipated of late.


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## freexbiker (Jul 18, 2005)

Canada said:


> I am amazed at how much thought goes into frame design, oar lentght, etc. I'm frankly envious they have something to tinker with on winter nights. One of the SUP videos last year had a guy that was ripping it up and was very cool. So, I would vote to leave it as is. Even the cross talk garbage from the Eddy seems to have dissipated of late.


That's because caspermike troll extrordinaire has a job and can't push all the eddybuzzard's buttons constantly.


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## ednaout (Jun 3, 2005)

> Even girl kayakers get their own forum, Betty Buzz.


I mean if EVEN the girls....


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## studytime (Oct 4, 2010)

You know you Kayakers could set up a Vanilla website super easy. I can even help you. Its a great format that is super easy to use and very personal. I have a few different ones. None of them have ads etc so somebody would take on the hosting fees. Which would maybe be $10/month. 

I have http://www.californiawhitewater.org/forum/ and a couple private ones for friends. 

Feel free to play around with it and if you decide you want your own let me now I can help set it up. I never really cared for the mtnbuzz format. Theres too much going on and too many ads. I like more personal forums. Its also never blocked by work.


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## chellebelle (Dec 3, 2007)

Why mess with a good thing? Please - leave it as it is!


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## glenn (May 13, 2009)

studytime said:


> You know you Kayakers could set up a Vanilla website super easy. I can even help you. Its a great format that is super easy to use and very personal. I have a few different ones. None of them have ads etc so somebody would take on the hosting fees. Which would maybe be $10/month.
> 
> I have California Whitewater - All Discussions and a couple private ones for friends.
> 
> Feel free to play around with it and if you decide you want your own let me now I can help set it up. I never really cared for the mtnbuzz format. Theres too much going on and too many ads. I like more personal forums. Its also never blocked by work.


Was this the spamming talked about earlier in the thread?


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## studytime (Oct 4, 2010)

What is Spam about that? 

Im just offering the Kayakers another solution. I dont get anything out of it. Californiawhitewater.org is just a place I write trip reports to share. I dont really care if anybody else ever uses it. But you can play around with it and decide if its something you would want for kayakers. It doesnt support advertising so i could never make money from it. Most of these forum templates that are free require you to have google ads. Which sucks. But for somebody with no website building skill you are kind of stuck with it. Which is lame. Im sure the forum moderators know this. 

The Vanilla format for writing is much better tham mtnbuzz and much more personal. I have two other Vanilla forums that are private membership only forums as well. They are super easy to set up and Vanilla is an open source program. In fact by offering you help with setting it up would just cost me time which is money. So consider it a charity. 

Offering a solution for people to use that is free to build and free from ads is actually the opposite of Spam.


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## afaust (Jun 14, 2010)

I vote no change and I am a paddler. Sounds like we need an official poll...


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## CGM (Jun 18, 2004)

studytime said:


> You know you Kayakers could set up a Vanilla website super easy. I can even help you. Its a great format that is super easy to use and very personal. I have a few different ones. None of them have ads etc so somebody would take on the hosting fees. Which would maybe be $10/month.
> 
> I have California Whitewater - All Discussions and a couple private ones for friends.
> 
> Feel free to play around with it and if you decide you want your own let me now I can help set it up. I never really cared for the mtnbuzz format. Theres too much going on and too many ads. I like more personal forums. Its also never blocked by work.


I think the rafters, SUPer's and snowboarders should be made to use their own chocolate/vanilla whatever website....and mountainbuzz should only be allowed to be used by class V/VI bad asses who have real boating to discuss.


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## lmyers (Jun 10, 2008)

Canada said:


> I am amazed at how much thought goes into frame design, oar lentght, etc. I'm frankly envious they have something to tinker with on winter nights. One of the SUP videos last year had a guy that was ripping it up and was very cool. So, I would vote to leave it as is. Even the cross talk garbage from the Eddy seems to have dissipated of late.


I totally agree with this. I am a kayaker. I love kayaking and that is my only river discipline... I do however appreciate all forms of river travel, and think that we all need to work together to solve the difficult issues raised by Colorado's "vague" water access laws.
MountainBuzz is the only major whitewater community forum that I am aware of for the Rocky Mountain region. By having a variey of users (even the fishermen) it allows us insight to otherwise unavailable beta, and provides us with different perspectives that are indeed valuable.



studytime said:


> What is Spam about that?


He was just messing with you. Don't take it literally, we all know when we see spam...

I like the Buzz as it is. Every other forum site I know of has side-forums for topics of lesser importence too, like the Eddy, Gear discussions, etc...


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## brandob9 (Jun 13, 2010)

Leave it - I was a kayaker who got into rafting, and guess what, the 16' stays at home most of the winter, when I'm kayaking!


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## Droboat (May 12, 2008)

*But we don't want the Irish!*

"By having a variety of users (even the fishermen) it allows us insight to otherwise unavailable beta, and provides us with different perspectives that are indeed valuable."

On second thought, I might think differently after a snort of Bushmill's and be open to even the Irish.


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## rebel1916 (Aug 20, 2010)

Droboat said:


> "By having a variety of users (even the fishermen) it allows us insight to otherwise unavailable beta, and provides us with different perspectives that are indeed valuable."
> 
> On second thought, I might think differently after a snort of Bushmill's and be open to even the Irish.


Excellent Blazing Saddles reference.


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## Shitouta (Apr 17, 2008)

"I think the rafters, SUPer's and snowboarders should be made to use their own chocolate/vanilla whatever website....and mountainbuzz should only be allowed to be used by class V/VI bad asses who have real boating to discuss."
I second that. I personally don't give two shits about discussing anything except platinum quality, class V+ big water. That's not a joke.


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## GoodTimes (Mar 9, 2006)

*BORING*

Please don't split it.....I so enjoy the kayakers whining that they have to actually read a post title and choose not to click it....and I also enjoy the endless threads about "which raft is better...check out my frame...how do I....check out my trailer" threads. 

I mean, that's the Buzz man!!! 

I kayak whatever, I raft whatever......maybe TRUE river people would LEARN how to be kickass at everything that floats on a river.

Just a thought......

I ski and snowboard too......

BLASPHEMOUS....winter and summer!!!


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## jeffsssmith (Mar 31, 2007)

GoodTimes said:


> I kayak whatever, I raft whatever......maybe TRUE river people would LEARN how to be kickass at everything that floats on a river.


 
I am kickass at everything that floats on a river but still am not interested in wading through the rafting threads. Having kayak only and raft only sections wouldn't mean that everyone couldn't still read, reply and participate, just that a quick glance at the buzz would be just that, quick, and would catagorize better for the ones that desire that.


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## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

Maybe all the tears of the kayakers will add some flow to the rivers this winter. Wah wah wah! :razz:

Nobody cares that you kayak. Just like nobody cares that I tele or catboat.


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## Shitouta (Apr 17, 2008)




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## BoilermakerU (Mar 13, 2009)

If this were to be split, then you have two (or more - raft, kayak, SUP, etc) of everything - two gear sections, two boater sections, two access and safety sections, etc. For those interested in more than one, that gets out of hand. It's also more work for the admins.

All you kayakers that are complaing, start your own kayak exclusive site then I guess.



Shitouta said:


> "I think the rafters, SUPer's and snowboarders should be made to use their own chocolate/vanilla whatever website....and mountainbuzz should only be allowed to be used by class V/VI bad asses who have real boating to discuss."
> I second that. I personally don't give two shits about discussing anything except platinum quality, class V+ big water. That's not a joke.


If you're so bad-ass, go start one then, you can do it....


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## craporadon (Feb 27, 2006)

I think the point that is being lost is that there is a noticeable trend of the buzz losing its relevance for kayakers. For rafters it seems to be gaining relevance as more and more rafters discover it. forums are very specific to their community. In skiing, if you are a hippie powder skier you go to tetongravity.com, but if you are a park skier you go to newschoolers.com. Nobody who skis powder wants to wade through the jibber topics on NS. And no one on NS cares how deep it was at Alta today. You really do have to connect with your niche or you end up connecting with nobody.


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## J (Nov 6, 2003)

There is a software solution here to keep everyone happy if the Buzz Admin dudes would entertain it... 

We could tag our posts - Kayaking, Rafting, Tubing, etc., then you can subscribe to whatever tags you want, or all of them. Don't know if this forum software supports it, but its a widely used methodology that solves this problem.

If something like that isn't possible, my vote is don't split it up.


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## OpusX (Jul 29, 2010)

BoilermakerU said:


> All you kayakers that are complaing, start your own kayak exclusive site then I guess.
> 
> If you're so bad-ass, go start one then, you can do it....


You mean like mountainbuzz.comhttp://www.mountainbuzz.com, that was created by a kayaker primarily for kayakers? Not that it really discriminated, but rafters and other river enthusiasts were few and far between...until it was sold. Maybe a little before. 

I agree with you though, we should get a new site created for kayaking again, considering you have taken over our kayaking site.


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## raftus (Jul 20, 2005)

Did anybody see the dying sport thread? If our sport (including kayaking, rafting, SUP, etc.) is shrinking won't segmenting the remaining chunks and seperating them work towards shrinking the sport even more? One of the reasons the buzz is successful is that there are new posts all the time even in down seasons. Having a ton of small sections that sometimes have long periods of inactivity will lead to less people visiting the site. Then that leads to fewer posts and still fewer people using the site. I hardly visit the raftzone section on boatertalk for that reason, and its crappy layout. Lets not do that to the buzz.


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## nmalozzi (Jun 19, 2007)

clearly the staff here has no intentions of splitting it up. so how bout this... those of you who want your own board:

start one up or stfu.


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## CGM (Jun 18, 2004)

I'd actually like to see the proposed kayaker forum sub-divided into a Guppy and Shark section so that I don't have to listen to weenie class III/IV boaters ask stupid questions about winter pool sessions or what boat to buy. There should be a password for the Shark section...and only Tom Janney will be able to give it out. All quality content, such as video's, pictures, etc will be limited to the Shark section as well so that I don't have to wade through Guppy shit like pictures of trailers and flat water ducky trips.


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## Rich (Sep 14, 2006)

OpusX said:


> You mean like mountainbuzz.com, that was created by a kayaker primarily for kayakers? Not that it really discriminated, but rafters and other river enthusiasts were few and far between...until it was sold. Maybe a little before.
> 
> I agree with you though, we should get a new site created for kayaking again, _*considering you have taken over our kayaking site.[/*_QUOTE]
> 
> Pretty funny line from a guy that joined in July 2010...just sayin...


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## Alphacyber (Mar 18, 2010)

If I'd ever considered living in Colorado because of the rivers that are there, this forum would have convinced me not to. If the sampling of boaters on this forum is representative of the population, I would hate those rivers regardless of how nice they were because of the other people who would be on them. I'll stay in the PNW where I can boat all year long with grown ups.


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## smauk2 (Jun 24, 2009)

Alphacyber said:


> If I'd ever considered living in Colorado because of the rivers that are there, this forum would have convinced me not to. If the sampling of boaters on this forum is representative of the population, I would hate those rivers regardless of how nice they were because of the other people who would be on them. I'll stay in the PNW where I can boat all year long with grown ups.


Its the internet, this is a forum, you are sensitive, you are pompous, stay where you are.


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## swimteam101 (Jul 1, 2008)

*No Worries*

http://www.mountainbuzz.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=3136&stc=1&d=1294795370


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## Andy R (Jul 3, 2005)

Since this topic is brought up so often we have been working on a solution and will get it rolled out in the next few days. Basically it will allow us to identify discussions by type (kayaking, rafting, SUP, etc) and also collect other information like drainage, creek or run so we can group threads in more ways.

Once this is setup you will be able to filter the results based on your preferences. If you don't want to see any SUP discussions just add them to your ignore list. If you don't want to see any rafting discussions just add them to your ignore list. We will also have quick links to take you to all the kayaking discussions or rafting discussions for each access when you surf to the site.

This will also give us a chance to organize discussions based on more granular topics allows easier ways to hone in on all the information flowing through the Buzz. We also have plans to organize discussions based on geography so people from Wyoming can see only the discussions about paddling in Wyoming or discussions started by other people from Wyoming.

We will start setting this up this week and then post some preliminary filters such as Kayaking, Rafting, SUP, etc. We will then look at adding more filters for things like creeking, rodeo, by rapid class, drainage, run, etc. Please be patient as we start slow and get the system tuned in and then as time passes there will be tones of ways to customize your experience here to increase the signal to noise ratio.


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## Shitouta (Apr 17, 2008)

Nice work, boss. And nobody listen to Alphacyber from the NW. I hear he's a catboater and therefore doesn't belong on this forum anyway.


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## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

Andy R said:


> Since this topic is brought up so often we have been working on a solution and will get it rolled out in the next few days. Basically it will allow us to identify discussions by type (kayaking, rafting, SUP, etc) and also collect other information like drainage, creek or run so we can group threads in more ways.
> 
> Once this is setup you will be able to filter the results based on your preferences. If you don't want to see any SUP discussions just add them to your ignore list. If you don't want to see any rafting discussions just add them to your ignore list. We will also have quick links to take you to all the kayaking discussions or rafting discussions for each access when you surf to the site.
> 
> ...


I can't wait to see how many of those flags get misapplied, and the admins asked to reclassify. Might you be creating something worse than just a few threads in the wrong forum (should be in geartalk, etc) and thus more work for admins? SOME people might have fun misflagging their threads, or posts. And what about when a thread goes OT, will it be reflagged? Just some thoughts, hopefully your plan will preclude more work for you all while making it better. More complication = more work.


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## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

Shitouta said:


> View attachment 3135


Love it! It doesn't quite beat out a similar Michael Jackson bumper sticker from Jackson. No one can lift their heel like MJ could! Good try!


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## raftus (Jul 20, 2005)

So lets tag this thread appropriately:

<html> 
<head> 
<title> Let the tagging abuse start!</title>
</head> 
<tags>
Rafting, kayaking, class I, Class II, Class III, Class IV, Class V, Class VI, SUP, Sean Lee, Whiny Kayakers/Rafters, Winter Buzz, Caspermike, Trailers, Videos, Trolls, My way of getting down the river is better than yours, North Fork of the Gnar Gnar, Bitches, Winter Time Flame War, Admins, I've been on the Buzz for two weeks listen to me!, I hate Kayakers, I hate Rafters, I hate beginners, I hate myself because my Dad abused me
</tags> 
</html>
What happens if a thread is both tagged as say something you like (topless women) and something you hate (but they're wearing life jackets because even on flat water the ranger gives them tickets) - does the Buzz just blow up?


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## okieboater (Oct 19, 2004)

Hope the admins are willing to handle extra work.

The more rules, the more complex the work.

Leave the Buzz alone!


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## BoilermakerU (Mar 13, 2009)

OpusX said:


> You mean like mountainbuzz.com, that was created by a kayaker primarily for kayakers? Not that it really discriminated, but rafters and other river enthusiasts were few and far between...until it was sold. Maybe a little before.
> 
> I agree with you though, we should get a new site created for kayaking again, considering you have taken over our kayaking site.


It's MOUNTAINbuzz.com, not kayakerbuzz.com.... seems like it's current form is very approriate for "our" site...

Andy and others, kudos to you guys for your work in keeping the place up at all, and for taking whatever measures you are to address everyone's wishes and desires. I hope it doesn't cause you guys more work in the long run, I am sure the pay isn't all that great... LOL


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## Canada (Oct 24, 2006)

*boaters*

Boaters are some of the best people in the world. I have never seen a group pof boaters that wouldn't go to great risk to help another boater in a time of need. This forum has had west slope versus front range, rafters v kayakers v fishermen v texans and Casper versus anyone that uttered anything political over a period of decades. I've enjoyed it all while ultimately knowing I could count on boaters, whether rafters or front range or whatever to pull my butt out of whatever bad spot I managed to wedge it into as a result of my mistrokes. Thats all that really matters in the end.


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## Jahve (Oct 31, 2003)

Canada said:


> Boaters are some of the best people in the world. I have never seen a group pof boaters that wouldn't go to great risk to help another boater in a time of need. This forum has had west slope versus front range, rafters v kayakers v fishermen v texans and Casper versus anyone that uttered anything political over a period of decades. I've enjoyed it all while ultimately knowing I could count on boaters, whether rafters or front range or whatever to pull my butt out of whatever bad spot I managed to wedge it into as a result of my mistrokes. Thats all that really matters in the end.


You forgot the Buena Vista vs saliver thing - I mean come on .....

I guess this thread means that - yep it is Jan 13th...


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## afaust (Jun 14, 2010)

It does seem like this thread is sort of an outlet for off season boating angst. The rafters get the opportunity to tinker with stuff in their garages and the kayakers surf the internet,watch sick trailers, and... wait for spring. Sort of seems like kayakers get the bum deal in the winter.

That being said we can also go kayak sledding which would be less than enjoyable in a raft. Still not much of a consolation prize for having all our rivers low or frozen.

This thread will likely be forgotten and shoved away once the spring thaw starts trickling its sweet addictive fluids into our creeks and playspots.


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## mr. compassionate (Jan 13, 2006)

So let me get this straight. You want to seperate rafters from your forum but want to collaborate when you need a groover and beer.


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## mr. compassionate (Jan 13, 2006)

I have a request as well-can you seperate douche catarafters from us real rafters. Those things are the easy way that requires no skill and should be in the tubing section.


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## yetigonecrazy (May 23, 2005)

split it.

its funny that people mention that this issue gets brought up every year and it needs to stop.....

well.....

the same boring posts about rafting GEAR like groovers and frames and trailers that rightfully belongs in the GEAR TALK forum always seem to come up every year too. like merlozzi or whatever his name is said, until people start to utilize the SEARCH BAR then it will continue to be a problem. this has been an issue every year since Andy opened up the buzz to search engine traffic- thereby turning it from invite only to as many as we can cram aboard, and it will continue to be a problem as more and more people find this site.

its not a disrespect to anyone. kayakers really just dont care, and the rafters are taking this all way too personally. we dont want to censor you, and were not saying our matters are more important. but yours are not more important than ours either. theyre equal. so why cant we have two EQUAL but SEPARATE forums? Because rafters get butt hurt, thats why.


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## glenn (May 13, 2009)

So what you're saying is there is a place to put the stuff already so we don't have to wade through it, and there is a method to find existing topics. So we should add another sub-forum even though people aren't using existing tools and moderation hasn't been terribly strict about it?

As posted before, if things aren't where they should be report it. If you don't care that much quit whining. 

We all run the same stretches, we all can meet up and run them together, we can use each others beta. Why would we want to get rid of all that good that comes from the mixed group.

Coolers, rigging, oar length etc etc etc should no doubt be kept in the gear forum, and you can do your part by reporting posts so they get moved.

These threads asking for the split should stop because the moderation has repeatedly stated that they will keep it as is and no change will be made.


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## gh (Oct 13, 2003)

If we decided to get strict we would move this to feedback forum......and the whining would begin about that.


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## mr. compassionate (Jan 13, 2006)

gh said:


> If we decided to get strict we would move this to feedback forum......and the whining would begin about that.


 
The best idea so far-can mods form this feedback forum please!


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## Randaddy (Jun 8, 2007)

Kayakers should all be put into camps.


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## Andy H. (Oct 13, 2003)

Randaddy said:


> Kayakers should all be put into camps.


And only allowed to drink PBR when they want a beer! 

Oh... wait.... Never mind...


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## Emmielou (May 1, 2007)

A rafter taught me how to kayak, a kayaker taught me how to raft. When our raft runs out of beer, a kayaker paddles to another boat to fetch some more. When a kayaker gets tired of the flat water or starts to feel soggy, he climbs up on one of our rafts and we strap his boat to the back, or tow it along. 










I think the filtering idea doesn't sound like much of a pain, but at the same time, there is a lot of overlap across the two sports. If I just want to read posts about rafting, I may miss information about a new hazard in a kayaking thread, or vice-versa. Wait, maybe that belongs in the safety forum, but it was originally a post about how someone just got their offsides combat roll in their new Jackson...


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## nmalozzi (Jun 19, 2007)

how about we eliminate all catagories/forums/filters all together and just let everyone post in on big forum with the old tree/hierarchy view (i'm sick of clicking into threads, i want it all right away). while we are at it, let's just move all this into a yahoo or google group. Keep It Simple Stupid.


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## doublet (May 21, 2004)

Ideally we'd ban all rafters, ducky-ers, and gapers from the buzz. I don't think that'll happen so maybe for now we just create two forums.


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## Chief Niwot (Oct 13, 2003)

Man, I am glad us canoers aren't getting called out in the thread. .


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## pinemnky13 (Jun 4, 2007)

So if kayakers and rafters get split into 2 different forums can we at least get a third one also so we can heckle each other in or where my split personalities can bitch at each other for rafting/ kayaking? Plus just think of how boring it would be if we couldn't do it in just one forum and all those hours we would have to actually work at work since we will be losing our entertainment during the work week.


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## yetigonecrazy (May 23, 2005)

Chief Niwot said:


> Man, I am glad us canoers aren't getting called out in the thread. .


oh you silly kneelin' one bladed crazies, dont think we hadn't forgotten about you. we just havent gotten there yet!


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## coloradopaddler (Jun 16, 2005)

aj, i was wondering where we fit into all this! being from a niche of another niche sport, i would say don't do it. we're all in this together. most kayakers aren't that bad, and i love to row my family down the rivers in our raft.


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## leif (Jul 11, 2009)

Yes! Split! I remember last time there was an uprising like this, someone suggested that instead of splitting into a gapers' forum and a normal forum, we could split into an elitist jerk forum and a normal forum. I think that would be perfect, because then I could click on the elitist jerk tab (right next to gear talk) and filter out all the rafting posts.


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## jasons (Sep 29, 2006)

*This is so obvious*

There are many topics that don't mix that seem similar. Muslims and Christians share the fact they practice a religion, but you don't see Christians going to Mecca. Rafters, duckies, river boarders...get your own place to hang out. You may think we are similar, but we don't mix.

Leave the kayakers to topics we want to hear about. Class V and up runs, pain quests, sick videos, weird punctuation from MILO, taunts between Tom Janney and Sean Lee. If you are a rafter, chances are you don't even get half the shit we talk about anyways...especially if it is about TJ and SL.


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## bkp77 (May 9, 2004)

how about a forum for just for whiners? problem solved.


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## Randaddy (Jun 8, 2007)

jasons said:


> There are many topics that don't mix that seem similar. Muslims and Christians share the fact they practice a religion, but you don't see Christians going to Mecca. Rafters, duckies, river boarders...get your own place to hang out. You may think we are similar, but we don't mix.
> 
> Leave the kayakers to topics we want to hear about. Class V and up runs, pain quests, sick videos, weird punctuation from MILO, taunts between Tom Janney and Sean Lee. If you are a rafter, chances are you don't even get half the shit we talk about anyways...especially if it is about TJ and SL.


You're right. We don't get the gay little inside jokes between you and the couple of friends you name drop to look cool. Kayaking is a fucking weird little off-the-map mountain sport. Quit pretending it's so special and try to get along with the few people in this world that actually get what you're into.

What we (rafters) do get are discussions about flows, rapids, hazards, etc. We're impressed by watching videos of waterfall drops and enjoy hearing about crazy class 5 creeks, even if it's not what we're all about. 

What we post includes information about river access, information about travel, rescue courses, you know STUFF YOU'RE INTO TOO! Ask Tom Martin what he paddles. I bet it's not the new carbon fiber playboat. Yet here he is, contributing important information about the Grand Canyon. Should he only post in the Raft forum? 

By the way, we also carry the gear when you want to run long rivers in those little brightly colored toys of yours - because your kind often isn't adequately prepared without us. 

It's nice to have an interesting thread going on the 'buzz, but this is getting out of hand. I've been on here for years, have taken countless trips with people -planned on Mountain Buzz- in kayaks, rafts, dories, canoes, duckies, you name it. I've sold gear to kayakers and rafters on here and bought gear from both camps. I HAVE CARRIED KAYAKS FROM BUZZARDS ON MY RAFT FOR DAYS ON END.

The funny thing is that the elitist douche-bags that chime in and want their own special forums are probably the same weekend warrior gear-geek losers that I see every Sunday clogging up valuable wilderness real-estate with their matching cars and shoes and fucking stickers all over the car. They're all the same. They want to talk and talk and talk about their new boat and new shoes and sweet new hat. The real boaters I've met on here have spent enough time on the water to understand why we share a forum. 

I like Mountain Buzz. Please keep it the way it is. It works, is a great way for like-minded people to connect on their way to someplace special. I don't have a facebook or a myspace or a tweeter. I have flesh-and-blood friends, paddle (or row) over 100 days every year and LOVE the people I boat with. Don't segregate me!


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## studytime (Oct 4, 2010)

bro.


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## El Flaco (Nov 5, 2003)

Randaddy said:


> Kayaking is a fucking weird little off-the-map mountain sport. Quit pretending it's so special and try to get along with the few people in this world that actually get what you're into.


That's awesome.


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## Canada (Oct 24, 2006)

*Carbon fiber play boat!*

I bet it's not the new carbon fiber playboat. 


Pictures!!!


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## gh (Oct 13, 2003)

Randaddy said:


> You're right. We don't get the gay little inside jokes between you and the couple of friends you name drop to look cool. Kayaking is a fucking weird little off-the-map mountain sport. Quit pretending it's so special and try to get along with the few people in this world that actually get what you're into.
> 
> What we (rafters) do get are discussions about flows, rapids, hazards, etc. We're impressed by watching videos of waterfall drops and enjoy hearing about crazy class 5 creeks, even if it's not what we're all about.
> 
> ...


This thread is just about adrenaline junkies missing their fix. To my knowledge, we aint changing nothing. Offseason chatter, happens every year.


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## caverdan (Aug 27, 2004)

Randaddy said:


> You're right. We don't get the gay little inside jokes between you and the couple of friends you name drop to look cool. Kayaking is a fucking weird little off-the-map mountain sport. Quit pretending it's so special and try to get along with the few people in this world that actually get what you're into.
> 
> What we (rafters) do get are discussions about flows, rapids, hazards, etc. We're impressed by watching videos of waterfall drops and enjoy hearing about crazy class 5 creeks, even if it's not what we're all about.
> 
> ...


Excellent post Randy........couldn't of said it better.

Why don't all you whining yakers use one of the other forums that aren't used as much......like Betty Buzz.


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## smauk2 (Jun 24, 2009)

Hanging out in the CSU library slightly entertained by the self destruction of rafters trying to sound mature and a few kayakers trying to sound hardcore. But seriously this thread is dumber than Randaddys in-bread family.

Leif your post suggesting rafters are elitists is just plain silly. They have spent years trying to create a device to poop in "groover" and have yet to have any success. Also I found your office, be on the look out.

Jasons, that comparison between religions reminded me of this christian guy who stopped me on campus, he was annoying. But I totally agree we should only ever ever talk about V+++ gnar and forgot about all the other beatiful scenic runs that wouldn't fall under this category. Maybe after running Pandora's box with SL and TJ we can circle jerk.

Of course this post wouldn't be complete without ripping on Yeti. I tried to read your post on this thread but holy shit its so damn boring. I might read that to my future children as a bed time story.

Where the hell is Capsermike?

To all the people saying, "its off season angst lets just chill" no shit, but imagine how we would treat our families without the Buzz to vent.


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## BmfnL (May 23, 2009)

Wait, there are kayak threads on this site?


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## CGM (Jun 18, 2004)

BmfnL said:


> Wait, there are kayak threads on this site?


Nope, not really much kayaking on this site...the best we can come up with are pictures of ditch diving in Westminster (wtf is that all about anyway?!). Maybe we should just move along and let the rafters take it over.


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## jasons (Sep 29, 2006)

We're not trying to segregate you, just your talk about rafts. And your comment about carrying our stuff and our lack of preparedness is insane. We carry our own shit. That is what my back, and the back of the kayak is for. 



Randaddy said:


> You're right. We don't get the gay little inside jokes between you and the couple of friends you name drop to look cool. Kayaking is a fucking weird little off-the-map mountain sport. Quit pretending it's so special and try to get along with the few people in this world that actually get what you're into.
> 
> What we (rafters) do get are discussions about flows, rapids, hazards, etc. We're impressed by watching videos of waterfall drops and enjoy hearing about crazy class 5 creeks, even if it's not what we're all about.
> 
> ...


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## jasons (Sep 29, 2006)

*scenery*

Pretty sure the harder runs are more scenic, especially since they are less likely to have a highway next to them. Lets see here, the Arkansas river with train tracks next to it and rafters everywhere, or North St. Vrain. There are less people, usually less trash, and definitely fewer rafters.

Jason 



smauk2 said:


> Hanging out in the CSU library slightly entertained by the self destruction of rafters trying to sound mature and a few kayakers trying to sound hardcore. But seriously this thread is dumber than Randaddys in-bread family.
> 
> Leif your post suggesting rafters are elitists is just plain silly. They have spent years trying to create a device to poop in "groover" and have yet to have any success. Also I found your office, be on the look out.
> 
> ...


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## Randaddy (Jun 8, 2007)

jasons said:


> We're not trying to segregate you, just your talk about rafts. And your comment about carrying our stuff and our lack of preparedness is insane. We carry our own shit. That is what my back, and the back of the kayak is for.


Grand Canyon, March 5. We might have an extra spot if you want to self-support. I'm serious.

Smau, just cuz my folks is cousins don't make me imbred. I'm cross-eyed cuz a horse kicked me and I resent the implacashun that my folks is any more than second cousins. Maybe third.


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## jasons (Sep 29, 2006)

*Here you go Chris*

This is a better pic. You....Norway...Waterfall.




CGM said:


> Nope, not really much kayaking on this site...the best we can come up with are pictures of ditch diving in Westminster (wtf is that all about anyway?!). Maybe we should just move along and let the rafters take it over.


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## afaust (Jun 14, 2010)

bkp77 said:


> how about a forum for just for whiners? problem solved.


Second the motion.


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## smauk2 (Jun 24, 2009)

jasons said:


> Pretty sure the harder runs are more scenic, especially since they are less likely to have a highway next to them. Lets see here, the Arkansas river with train tracks next to it and rafters everywhere, or North St. Vrain. There are less people, usually less trash, and definitely fewer rafters.
> 
> Jason


Of course harder runs are much more likely to be scenic, just talking some smack.

But there are also runs such as Zion Narrows which have stunning beauty without the class V rating.


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## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

CGM said:


> Maybe we should just move along and let the rafters take it over.


We already have. (insert kumbaya lyrics here) But we don't want you to go!!!


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## smauk2 (Jun 24, 2009)

Randaddy said:


> Grand Canyon, March 5. We might have an extra spot if you want to self-support. I'm serious.
> 
> Smau, just cuz my folks is cousins don't make me imbred. I'm cross-eyed cuz a horse kicked me and I resent the implacashun that my folks is any more than second cousins. Maybe third.


Glad to see someone has a sense of humor. Honestly do you guys know how much traffic this sight gets? Not nearly enough to split off into branches. If you want a website with pictures of Sean Lee running some disgusting waterfall with threads that never move because nobody posts new ones, or another with twenty pictures of some ugly couple and their ugly kid running filter plant in a ducky, then keep pushing for the split. 

Also to the poster above me, your picture reminds me of gone with the wind, and it leaves me with mixed emotions!


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## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

smauk2 said:


> Also to the poster above me, your picture reminds me of gone with the wind, and it leaves me with mixed emotions!


Good lord! Julie Andrews, The Sound of Music. I suppose it's time for the annual "change your avatar" thread....


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