# Burn VS. Hero VS. Ammo



## marcellern

Hello there. Would the Pyranha Burn or the new Jackson Hero be a better boat for a 5'8" 145 lb. female who is just beginning in the sport? Maybe the Pyranha Ammo? Whatcha think? Many thanks! Marcelle


----------



## Jensjustduckie

Personally I love Jackson's because they are so much easier to roll. I have a superEZ which I can roll but the jackson's built in thigh/knee holds give you way more contact with the boat. 

This is my 2nd season, 1st in a hard boat and I have a deposit down on a Hero because it's awesome.


----------



## gannon_w

I am 140 and 5'10" and I have a burn. Most people I teach and put on moving water for the first time use it. I'ts easy to roll...although I already knew how to roll when I got it so that may matter. Handles lines well and turns easily. So +1 for the Burn. Thats my 2 pennies.


----------



## SueCherry

*Try all three*

Well I demoed all three and bought the Ammo (medium). I'm 5'9" and 150. I was looking for a boat for high water and nothing more than class IV and something that would allow me on some creeks.

I agree that the Hero's outfitting allows for immediate great contact with the boat, but I didn't like the way the boat handled.

I paddled the Burn (small) on the Upper Gauley and felt immediately comfortable in the boat, but it seemed sluggish. I was later told that I should have been in the Medium and probably my weight was too far back. 

I don't like the outfitting in the Ammo, but bought it anyway. My reasoning was that I wanted an alternative to a play boat (kingpin), but wanted an easy transition between boats. I have paddled it twice since the purchase and may end up with a better opinion later in the season.

Having said all that, I wish I had tried the medium Burn before laying down the cash, but then that's just me always second guessing.


----------



## lmaciag

*Vote for the Burn*

I fell in love with the Hero at the pool. Super easy to roll, great outfitting... but then I demo'd it and wasn't so in love any more. I found a great deal on a M Burn and bought it w/o a demo b/c I knew I could sell it for what I had in it. I really like it so far, just need to work with the outfitting a bit. I lifted the seat by an inch or so and need to pad out the knees. I'm 5'8", 32" inseam and about 155-160 w/my winter weight. My playboat is a Fun. I bought the Burn for tougher class IV.

Sue - you can try out the M Burn anytime you want. Still need to hear all about Chile!


----------



## SueCherry

*Way to find the deals!!*

Laurie, way to go finding the used boats. I am more comfortable just adding scratches to a used boat. Probably the price tag has something to do with that.

Chile was awesome! I walked the class V, but loved the III/IV Futa. On subject with this thread, I paddled a Liquid Logic Remix. Hands down the best outfitting of the boats I've tried. I liked the speed of that boat and considered purchasing one. I was looking for something that was bit more of a creeker without the full committment of one.


----------



## Tracy N

5'2" and 125 Burn small works for me. Fast, makes tight eddy turns and easy to boof. Had to tweak my roll to reach more to the side because the paddler's chest+ women's PFD with all the bulk in front+ implosion bar+ high deck threw me off at first, but it is easy to roll once you know that. Also moving from a star to the burn required some refinement of ferrying techniques that oldtimers would be acustomed to already. Otherwise I moved from class 3 play rivers (Ocoee) to class 4 creeks in a weekend with this boat. (Then again maybe being 25 pounds overweight for my star was holding me back ;-)


----------



## demshitz

*Burn or Ammo*

Longer boats seem easier to roll. They don't swirl around as much when you are setting up. The Ammo is an awesome boat if you already have a good roll and you already know you like paddling something with a shorter bow because of its ease of manueverability. Stable, but you gotta know those edges. It forces you to learn good boat control, which is good, but be ready to do some rolling as a first boat. Really fun for paddling aggressively, surfing, spinning, and crazy stuff like looping HUGE, and freewheels. Also fun for familiar runs, grabbing tight eddies, like a play boat with some body armor.
The Burn makes it easier to route through whitewater and roll. And has a dynamic design with softer edges, that makes it easy to drive and accelerate through rapids, rather than just float through. Which can be really important when you are trying to get to where you need to be in whitewater. Good example is the Pine Creek rapid on the Arkansas in Colorado. You like those edges when you skirt past that bad boy! 
Your height and weight, Medium Burn. AND I paddle Medium Burn on everything and I weigh 145 5'4'' and put a little foam under my seat. When you outfit the boat try to imagine paddling and keeping your elbows from hitting the cockpit rim and your knees up past the thigh braces. Hope this helps. 
Team Pyranha Blog


----------



## David H

If the burn wins the competition you might want to buy a used H3 (the boat the burn replaced) I currently own both the differences are small and apparent only to an advanced paddler,
as a beginner you will never be able to tell the difference. Sizing is the exact same and you should be able to pick up a used primo one for about $400.


----------



## adrock

The Burn is your best choice... You will love this boat.
I would go medium if you are running higher volume stuff mostly and want to have the space for overnight gear, or small if you are running low volume/day trip stuff.
Its an amazing design, great company.


----------



## SkidStain

Hey Marcelle,
Wondering what you ended up going with?? Now that the water is coming up, any of you ladies have new opinions about these boats?


----------



## SkidStain

SueCherry said:


> Laurie, way to go finding the used boats. I am more comfortable just adding scratches to a used boat. Probably the price tag has something to do with that.
> 
> Chile was awesome! I walked the class V, but loved the III/IV Futa. On subject with this thread, I paddled a Liquid Logic Remix. Hands down the best outfitting of the boats I've tried. I liked the speed of that boat and considered purchasing one. I was looking for something that was bit more of a creeker without the full committment of one.


Sue,
I demoed the Liquid Logic Remix a couple of weeks ago as well and fell in love with it. So so fast. I agree that the outfitting is bomber. Its simple and comfortable. I wrote more details about what I thought about its performance here if you are interested
Liquid Militia Productions


----------



## GAtoCSU

Have you given any thought to the Trigger/Lil'Joe line of Liquid Logic boats? My soon-to-be wife has the Trigger and loves it. She's 5'3 and 115. While you're a bit too tall for the Trigger, the Lil'Joe has equally well reviews from women in your range.

Flat hull and lower volume than the Burn.

Scott


----------



## SkidStain

Ill try it, Scott. Thanks for the suggestion. Wish we had a sweet kayak shop to demo boats from here in the Fort.


----------



## marcellern

*Ammo*



SkidStain said:


> Hey Marcelle,
> Wondering what you ended up going with?? Now that the water is coming up, any of you ladies have new opinions about these boats?


I bought the small Ammo. So far I like it, although I've only taken it on III's a few times, so far. I find it stable, easy to maneuver, and I like all of the adjustments that are possible. I think it's a great little boat. Thanks for everyone's help.


----------



## shady

*Ammo*

Im a guy 5-8 180 and I have a M Ammo and love it. I have only paddled 3s with it but it is buy far the best boat I have ever been in. I think it rolls pretty easy and handels like a champ.Im a class 3+ boater and my roll sucked before my Ammo. Its a bit weird at first with the carving rails and the play boat hull with the creeker top but after I spent a few days in it Im in love. I have a New 2007 Fun that I have'nt even used once this season. I may end up selling it, its only seen the river 4-5 times and Im to heavy for it anyhow. I have not been in either the Hero or the Burn but I have nothing bad to say about my Ammo. Good luck finding a boat.


----------

