# How un-potable is Deso water?



## ohioboater (Jun 14, 2016)

This has been in the back of my mind ever since running Deso last summer...

The ranger last year told us to plan on carrying all of our water for the entire week, because the main river is polluted with petroleum industry chemicals, and the side creeks would not likely be running. No problem, we packed all of our water; however, we passed two different solo travelers, one in a ducky, the other in a Stinger. Both were traveling very light and appeared to be carrying no more than a couple of Nalgenes for water, so I assume they were filtering the main river each day. 

Is the river less nasty than the ranger made it sound, or were those folks just rolling the dice that whatever toxic crap is in the Green would not build up enough to harm them during a week long trip?


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## carvedog (May 11, 2005)

Sweet Jeebus. I wouldn't drink that water, even with filtering, alum and more filtering.


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## restrac2000 (Mar 6, 2008)

ohioboater said:


> This has been in the back of my mind ever since running Deso last summer...
> 
> The ranger last year told us to plan on carrying all of our water for the entire week, because the main river is polluted with petroleum industry chemicals, and the side creeks would not likely be running. No problem, we packed all of our water; however, we passed two different solo travelers, one in a ducky, the other in a Stinger. Both were traveling very light and appeared to be carrying no more than a couple of Nalgenes for water, so I assume they were filtering the main river each day.
> 
> Is the river less nasty than the ranger made it sound, or were those folks just rolling the dice that whatever toxic crap is in the Green would not build up enough to harm them during a week long trip?


Visually, its one of the grossest to think about finding potable water from on a rafting trip. 

I know the water sources sampled in the Green River districts of Utah BLM lands tested consistently outside exceedence levels in a study in 2010-ish. The streams and rivers in that region carried way too much phosphorous and nitrogen. I assume that is related to the agriculture throughout the region.

I have been told about minor to moderate spills from the wells along the Tavaputs, though I think it was mostly byproducts not anything oil. Still, the number of wells in that drainage (Green and White) is staggering and the type of products they use are not anything I want to ingest.

I would drink it in a last ditch effort to stave off dangerous levels of dehydration but nothing else.


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## Electric-Mayhem (Jan 19, 2004)

Its questionably legal to walk up to it since its owned by the Utes and I've heard the water quality is questionable too, but there is a spring/spigot at McPherson Ranch/Ouray Lodge that might be a good alternative to filtering out of the river itself. 

Probably better to just bring what you need with you though.


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## Liquido (Feb 27, 2012)

ohioboater said:


> This has been in the back of my mind ever since running Deso last summer...
> 
> The ranger last year told us to plan on carrying all of our water for the entire week, because the main river is polluted with petroleum industry chemicals, and the side creeks would not likely be running. No problem, we packed all of our water; however, we passed two different solo travelers, one in a ducky, the other in a Stinger. Both were traveling very light and appeared to be carrying no more than a couple of Nalgenes for water, so I assume they were filtering the main river each day.
> 
> Is the river less nasty than the ranger made it sound, or were those folks just rolling the dice that whatever toxic crap is in the Green would not build up enough to harm them during a week long trip?


Yikes, I barely want to float Deso, but drink it? No thanks!. This makes me think of seeing people drink water out of the San Juan....all the upstream farms, fertilizer and chemicals, not to mention oil and gas waste, old mining waste, cattle waste....yum. drink up!


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## smhoeher (Jun 14, 2015)

I launch in 3 weeks. I won't even think about drinking it. I don't even like the idea of using it for dishes and cleaning but we're not going to carry that much clean water.


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## caverdan (Aug 27, 2004)

So what you guys are saying is that using a filter such as a Sawyer filter system, does not totally remove pollutants?


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## kengore (May 29, 2008)

Filter systems like the Sawyer work like a very fine mesh, they will remove undisolved particles from the water that are below a certain size. Depending on the mesh size of your brand they will remove stuff like giardia (a viral cyst) and harmful bacteria _but will not do anything for dissolved chemicals or heavy metals._

*From the Sawyer web site...*
Does the Sawyer filter remove taste, chemicals and heavy metals from water?

Taste
The Sawyer filter removes taste that comes from bacteria, dirt, and green matter.

Chemicals
The Sawyer filter does NOT remove iron, sulfur, other chemicals, or simple compounds. Taste can be masked by using flavor additives like Gatorade or crystal light (filter needs to be cleaned immediately after using them).

Heavy Metals
The Sawyer filters are not made with charcoal. While other portable filters have charcoal, they lack in amount of media and adequate dwell time. Therefore, they only remove small amounts of heavy metals, pesticides, etc. (when used in real life applications). Try using better sources of water, if possible.


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## mikepart (Jul 7, 2009)

Come on folks, 20 million people drink, shower, and cook with that water every day and the majority of our countries produce is irrigated with it. If you need to, settle and treat it and you will be fine.

That being said, I usually carry most of my water and if I need more, I use springs/ clear tributaries because it tastes better and takes less settling, but if i needed to, I would treat and drink Green River water without hesitation.

By the way, if anyone finds or knows of any reputable sources that have reported about dangerous levels (or even measurable levels) of petroleum industries chemicals in the Green River, I would love to read about it. I don't doubt that there is some impact, but I have never actually seen it reported.


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## BCJ (Mar 3, 2008)

We have been filtering and drinking water out of Rock Creek, the spring at McPherson, and even Range Creek when it flows, for decades. We have been cleaning and rinsing dishes with settled Green River water as well. The only reason we did not try to filter river water for consumption is how much more time it takes to settle and filter, because it is almost always turbid (muddy). We have also eaten catfish from the Green for decades. Hope I survive. IMO, a public official is never going to recommend using river water, as a matter of policy.


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## restrac2000 (Mar 6, 2008)

mikepart said:


> Come on folks, 20 million people drink, shower, and cook with that water every day and the majority of our countries produce is irrigated with it. If you need to, settle and treat it and you will be fine.
> 
> That being said, I usually carry most of my water and if I need more, I use springs/ clear tributaries because it tastes better and takes less settling, but if i needed to, I would treat and drink Green River water without hesitation.
> 
> By the way, if anyone finds or knows of any reputable sources that have reported about dangerous levels (or even measurable levels) of petroleum industries chemicals in the Green River, I would love to read about it. I don't doubt that there is some impact, but I have never actually seen it reported.


Can you show me support for the idea that 20 million people water directly from the Green River from this section (ie, above confluence with Colorado River)? As well, could you also show me that any of the populations use the river as a water source without multiple means of industrial filtration. Most culinary water sources in the area are separate from the river from what I understand. Agricultural water is a different story. 

I just know of the Utah DEQ report about the Green River region streams but that does not include petrochemical information. There have been spills in the area:

https://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=30081832

Per drinking, I never recommend pulling water from the final source but instead from the highest order (springs or streams). The reality is even Rock creek likely has some pollutants but clearly not as many diffuse and point sources as the Green after it travels through hundreds of miles of territory. I mean I have seen all sorts of garbage floating downriver along its course, from minor like water bottles to moderate like chemical containers to large appliances. That is not a source I would recommend anyone filter from unless its an emergency.


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## mikepart (Jul 7, 2009)

restrac2000 said:


> Can you show me support for the idea that 20 million people water directly from the Green River from this section (ie, above confluence with Colorado River)? As well, could you also show me that any of the populations use the river as a water source without multiple means of industrial filtration. Most culinary water sources in the area are separate from the river from what I understand. Agricultural water is a different story.
> 
> I just know of the Utah DEQ report about the Green River region streams but that does not include petrochemical information. There have been spills in the area:
> 
> ...


It seems as if the figure is actually 27 million people and 4 million acres of irrigated farmland. Of course, you are correct that the figure is for the Colorado River Basin as a whole, of which a little under half of the mean annual flow comes from the Green River (The remainder coming from basins with similar land use issues). 

I am not sure, but I do believe that the town of Green River, Utah pulls municipal water directly from the Green River below Desolation. I am certain that the town of Clifton pulls it water straight out of the Colorado near Grand Junction. Vegas, Pheonix, and So Cal all pretty much use straight up river water. 

While you are correct, those 27 million water users are downstream of EPA regulated municipal treatment plants, it has been my experience that those plants are a lot less high tech than you would hope for. Generally, they are little more than floculant, sand filters, and the addition of a disinfectant. I don't think that they take corrective actions for industrial pollutants unless conventional filtration does not meet EPA standards, but hey, I am going out on a limb there and I prefer to keep things in the known.

Like I said before, I don't doubt that there are some industrial pollutants in the Green River, but I have never seen any documentation that suggests that the water in Deso is unsafe to filter and drink. Seriously, I would love to read any reports.

What bugs me is that people look at a river and mistake turbidity and suspended solids for poor overall water quality. Case in point, people tend to turn their noses at water from the Green River, while folks often will readily filter the clear water below Glen Canyon Dam in Grand Canyon which of course is a lower order stream in the same basin and made up of about 40% of the same Green River water.

I agree, I usually take water from higher order streams and springs if possible, but even then, a clear spring coming right out of the rock could well be full of selenium, aluminum, natural arsenic, mine pollution, fracking chemicals, fecal chloroform, ect... 

The Green River has it's issues and needs our help, but just because it is beautifully turbid and muddy, does not necessarily mean that it carries any more pollutants than any other river.


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## restrac2000 (Mar 6, 2008)

I think we likely agree on much of the information then. I just know the quality of water sources in the Green River District in Utah are some of the worst for measured indicators. Sadly, they only began measuring waters on BLM lands regularly in the last few years. But the water in that area is particularly stressed. And its not just the turbidity that effects my perspective. Like I mentioned, the amount of trash in the river alone is bad enough.

I don't pull water from the mainstem of the Colorado below Lees Ferry either. I have spent time on Lake Powell, its gross. Even on the Main Salmon or Idaho rivers I try to pull from springs or side streams.

I don't have a desire to demonize the silty rivers like the Green but just know the region around it well enough to not consider consumption worth the risk in average situations. 

I always thought the reason some filters and most municipalities use carbon and sand filtration is because it eliminates much of what we are talking about during the 5-15 minute filtration time. Is that not true? As was noted, many of the filter we use in the field have short filtration times and don't use mediums that purify those elements out of the water.

Don't most municipalities like Vegas pull from reservoirs further down the water column (penstocks?)? Does that have an effect on contaminants compared to surface sources (O2 concentrations, temp, etc)? Not as familiar with industrial filtration.


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## [email protected] (Jun 1, 2010)

Come on everybody, relax what is the worst thing that could happen if you drink the water, die? We are all going to do that anyway. Why not throw caution to the wind and take a chance.  Or you could play it safe and carry a few gallons of safe water.


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## azpowell (Aug 14, 2014)

haha this is what it has become? its not going to kill you... all you health nuts are going to look really dumb someday when your laying in bed dying of nothing...


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## Fumble (May 23, 2013)

Went on a trip with a water quality scientist and he wouldn't swim in the river. I took my changes being that I'm not swimming everyday of my life. I'd drink it in a pinch but if you have room bring your own.


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## [email protected] (Jun 1, 2010)

azpowell said:


> haha this is what it has become? its not going to kill you... all you health nuts are going to look really dumb someday when your laying in bed dying of nothing...


I do not think you recognize sarcasm or was I too subtle? Since carrying enough water so you do not need to filter or worry is easy, why not play it safe? I do not consider myself to be a health nut.


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## shoenfeld13 (Aug 18, 2009)

I would just drink less water. I did a trip where we limited people to 1 pint a day but only had to carry 3 gallons per boat.


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## Roguelawyer (Apr 2, 2015)

We carried most of ours (I think we had 57 gallons for 12 people for a 6 day trip) for our trip starting on July 19. We drew water from Rock Cr. And McPherson for cooking. Didn't filter or treat but only used a little on days 3 - 6 and boiled it for a long time. No issues. 

The research I did didn't reveal any water quality issues as far as chemicals. I would be interested in seeing such info.


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## azpowell (Aug 14, 2014)

[email protected] said:


> I do not think you recognize sarcasm or was I too subtle? Since carrying enough water so you do not need to filter or worry is easy, why not play it safe? I do not consider myself to be a health nut.


wasn't directed at you, i read your post as i think you meant it.... 


i live in page az and have been drinking lake Powell water my whole life (from a weathered garden hose most of my childhood)....if i'm still doing well the rest of y'all will be fine....

more likely to suffer health issues from the skeeters....


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## [email protected] (Jun 1, 2010)

azpowell said:


> wasn't directed at you, i read your post as i think you meant it....
> 
> 
> Sorry about that since you posted right after mine. I thought you took me seriously. Having swallowed more than my fair share of water with a flip and still being here to post is proof of that it is not usually deadly. Possibility of gagging and puking over the taste is much more likely.


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## Phil U. (Feb 7, 2009)

So odd to read boaters dismissing the value and importance of clean water and clean rivers.


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## ArgoCat (May 14, 2007)

Beer is like 90-95% water, just saying. Never had a problem with enough clean water as long as you have enough beer. Yes, I know it is a diuretic, but drink enough and pound a gatorade or two and you'll be fine. Launching on the dirty, evil, silt laden, arm pit of the green on the 29th and looking forward to it. It's not like it is the LA River or the Chicago, which of course they had to reverse to make sure that all the shit didn't flow into Chicago's fresh water supply. The key to pollution is dilution, and the green flushes every year. Of course the heavy metals tend to accumulate in the sediment....so I guess don't chew on mud.


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## lmyers (Jun 10, 2008)

I'm not going to read through all of these replies, but last Deso trip I did we kayak self supported and one member of our party did not bring any water. He had a filter, a collapsable settling bucket and alum. Filled the bucket each evening, added alum and let it settle overnight. Filtered in the morning. I personally filtered from side streams, but he didn't get sick or complain about bad taste.


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