# 2019 Dolores River Thread



## mattman

Well, to early to tell shit probably, but since I am incorrigible and it is snowing...

Looks like El Diente and Lizard Head are at 114 and 132% snow water equivalent, respectively. From what I could tell looking at the DWC website, Mcphee is about 72' bellow Maximum Elevation. I don't believe they are able to fill it to absolute max elevation before being forced to let some out? 
Please correct me if I missed any important snow sites, or if I got them wrong, to! 

Long ways out I spose, may be tears and frustration again, as is often the case, but feel free to prognosticate, discuss, get your wheels turning, Etc. 
Where there is water, there is life, and where there is life, there is hope...

Hope you're not to overtaken by cabin fever and winter time blues, and may there be hope for Our Lady of Sorrow in 2019.

Cheers! :grin:

Matt Man


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## jamesthomas

Dude, you must be bored as you have been posting alot. Glad you had a good trip on the grand. Mother D is 50/50 at this time as far as I am concerned but if we continue to get snow it could happen. If it happens I will be there. Love the Dolores. Billy Crack is heading out on the grand in a couple of weeks. Planned for 30 days, 3 peeps two boats, sounds sketchy for 60 year old folks like me. I would go with but am recovering from a broken foot. They have room for another boat if you know anyone who would be up for it.


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## ColoradoDave

There's also a bit of runoff from the South into the Dolores between Lizard Head and Stoner from the North Side of the Babcock Peak massif. The Snotel Site for that is Sharkstooth.


The site shows the median for that at 78%


That peaks later than El Diente, which peaks later than Lizard Head. The 1-2-3 punch that keeps that run going a long time.


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## mattman

Haha! Ya, guess I have! Think it must be part of my defense mechanism for dealing with regular life again. Definitely something wrong with me, had a month off to go run the greatest river trip I know of, and now all I want to do is go boating again, when I really should be buckling down harder, and working my but off. Just don't want "fake life" anymore!

Awesome, awesome trip, with a huge thank you to Evercat for inviting me!!! Out of the Grand till 2020 now, per GCNPS regulations, hope Billy has a great trip though, and I'll keep it in mind if I think of anyone.

Sorry to hear about the broken foot James, hope you heal up soon!
It'll be spring run off and summer before we know it, fingers crossed that she goes this year!


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## mattman

Thanks Dave, that's good info!


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## rtsideup

No fuckin' way.
It's going to take a couple years of above average snowpack to get Mcphee back to full pool.
It's nice to dream though.


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## jgrebe

I'm in the no way camp. Last years drought was just too severe. It'll take a couple of good years just to replenish the ground water tables, not to mention the McPhee low pool that rtsideup talked about.


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## storm11

There is exactly a 0% chance that McPhee will spill this year, unless we have a miracle spring that bumps us to about 200% of average. Our ground water is severely diminished after last year and the reservoir is very low. Below the San Miguel will run, but not the middle stretches.


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## eddy hopper

10 to 1 odds it wont


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## mattman

Well, not enough yet to fill that gaping hole they got up there at Mcphee, but I was happy to find El Diente at 145, Lizard Head at 123, and Sharkstooth hanging in there at 94%, this morning. So we at least got some snow up there, and water for the upper D, plus good snow pack for the San Miguel, so bellow the confluence should be running. 
For the San Miguel, Dolores, Animas, and San Juan Basins, we are at 114%, with only 2 sites reporting under 100%, 3 sites are not reporting.

Things are looking up for the southern mountains! About time those folks got a little moisture down there


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## mattman

Never have actually run the Dolores above the Dam, would like to get up there some time, bet it will be kicking this year! If anybody wants a rafter do drag along, let me know! 

Run Gateway down several times, and I really enjoy that section. State line seems to get longer by the year, with the debris flows, bought 3 miles of class 4 and 3, now. Always seems to give fellow GC and Cat boaters some hesitation, sure do enjoy it out there, though! Let me know if somebody wants to go run Gateway! So far skunked on permits this year, still waiting on Idaho results....


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## jamesthomas

Yesterday the Durango Herald had an article which said that 135% of normal will fill the reservoirs but they were talking Vallecito and Lemon. Supposedly going to get another two feet between tonight and Tuesday and another big storm heading to next weekend. I'll bet 200% will make Mcphee spill. Could happen.


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## brwilzon

2019 McPhee Release Update :: Dolores Water Conservancy District


"it is still *highly unlikely that there will be a spill* (or managed release) in 2019. This is due to the extremely low carryover in McPhee coming out of the 2018 shortage."


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## fdon

The DWCD could not predict if a dropped rock would hit the ground anytime soon. That lake is not THAT big. I recall the same scenario happening a few years back. No chance of a spill they posted, so we brought class three canoes hoping for 100 CFS. The next morning we woke to 4000CFS, perfect for a raft. We launched knowing Snaggletooth would be a drag around but managed all others with strategic sneaks in our overwhelmed craft. Was a classic adventure regardless and we had the river to ourselves. Poke a hole in that dam! Of all the ones needing decommissioned, that's #1.


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## powrider686

Well... The DWCD is now saying there is a 10-15% probability of a "fill n spill", and those snow piles are getting big in the San Juan! More snow on the way! 

http://doloreswater.com/releases/2019-mcphee-release-update-2/


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## jamesthomas

134% of total average before todays totals. Probably be 140% on tomorrows snotel run. C'mon snow.


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## matt man

El Diente 171, Lizard Head 147, Sharks Tooth 126 now.... 
Gate Way canyon running @ 887cfs currently.


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## kb52

*Been snowing a bit*



matt man said:


> El Diente 171, Lizard Head 147, Sharks Tooth 126 now....
> Gate Way canyon running @ 887cfs currently.


Dumping all day at 7200'. At least 12" here today - and wet and heavy. And heavy rain yesterday. Its very soggy.


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## Azriverboy77

As of March 14 our snotel was 156% , we need 170% to have full irrigation allocation ,


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## matt man

Will be crossing my fingers for a good wet summer. Hopefully we can keep water in that thing, and then some going down the river, instead of irrigating so much. Maybe that wet glop down there will just saturate some fields early season?

Hope for the best, at least things are improving!


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## Joedills

Releases :: Dolores Water Conservancy District

This was updated about a week ago. 10-15% chance of a "fill and spill" release in late may. "So you're telling me there's a chance!"


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## Azriverboy77

Yeah , both my neighbors are on the dwcd board & apparently they are trying to leave water in the reservoir to irrigate for the following year instead of draining it and leaving little for the next year , so that actually bodes well for us rafters as it will stay at a higher level from now on ! 🙏


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## jamesthomas

C'mon DWCD all we want is 1500 cfs on weekends for as long as the water lasts. How many acre feet can that be. Dream on.


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## ColoradoDave

It's actually 5,950 Acre Feet per weekend or about 2.6% of McFee's use-able capacity.


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## jamesthomas

2.6% per weekend, that's it?? Geez those farmers and water managers sure a selfish lot. Seems like our tax dollars went into the construction of the dam and all the infrastructure tied to it. Our tax dollars continue to be spent on maintaining the dam and infrastructure. Seems to me that those conservative folks on the DRWC board and the farmers that benefit from the operation of the dam and infrastructure are "gasp" being subsidized by the government they they loudly proclaim to not need. Hmm.


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## ColoradoDave

I would have thought they would have figured it out when there were hundreds of trucks and trailers in Slickrock all of a sudden. Doh.


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## tallboy

http://doloreswater.com/releases/2019-mcphee-release-update/

50% of 2-4 week spill now...
100% of a 3 day?!?


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## DidNotWinLottery

tallboy said:


> 2019 McPhee Release Update :: Dolores Water Conservancy District
> 
> 50% of 2-4 week spill now...
> 100% of a 3 day?!?



Oh boy.......Going out to air the boat up.


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## jamesthomas

This mornings snotel says 144% of average yearly total. C'mon snowpack.


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## b.pi

McPhee needs 216,706 AF to fill, and the minimum CRBFC ESP forecast is 361,000 AF, so there's about 144,000 AF minimum out there. The CPC forecasts call for a warm and wet next 6-10 and 8-14 days, a pretty average April (windy, sometimes wet, typical spring stuff), and a wetter than normal April/May/June. The next few weeks should get the runoff started, and any additional rain events will just speed it up. I'm watching the Slickrock gauge to see all the mid-elevation snow melt off over the next two weeks, you could probably get a trip in somewhere if you did it quick enough. It was a very good winter at all elevations, and our drought is almost completely gone in the span of three months (it seems it will be gone from central CO this Thursday with just abnormally dry conditions as a relic of 2018's drought in the SW corner).

And if there's only 144k AF actually up there as a surplus, that is 36 days at 2,000 CFS......which seems really high to me. I know they'll be irrigating the same time they're filling this year, but the 50% forecast has 258k AF surplus, and the max (just shy of all time max) has 435k AF after you fill the reservoir. 

I can't see how it's not 100% at this point, and I'm guessing by the fact they're having a meeting on April 18 the DWCD is betting it's a sure thing.


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## Andy H.

My curmudgeon part is screaming that somehow, knowing the DWCD, they'll figure out a way to release that much water in a manner that would be almost totally unboatable.... Maybe release 6000 cfs for a day, then back to 95 cfs for 3 days. And so on...


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## jamesthomas

Seems I read somewhere last time it ran that the max they can release through the penstocks at Mcphee is 5000 cfs and if you remember the debacle at that dam in Ca you can't let it just overflow down the spillway willy nilly, so you have to stay ahead of the game and start running it before the lake is full. It's a tricky business. Like I've said before, once they get the situation under control, do weekend releases like they do at the dam on the Chama at Elvado. Nice dream.


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## matt man

I share your sentiments on that one, Andy.

I really believe that DWCD, considers people boating the Dolores a threat to there Bottom line.
The more folks that get down that river and see it, the bigger the public push becomes to stop holding every last drop of of water, in that reservoir. 

And that means less money for the utility company.


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## eddy hopper

"do weekend releases like they do at the dam on the Chama at Elvado. Nice dream"

It's not just a weekend run, It's anywhere from a day run to a ten day run. If it were just a weekend run release good luck getting a permit because it would pretty much have to be permitted. Like the Chama. 

I like the current management (mis-management) of no official announcement until the last minute. Makes it more of a locals run.


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## jamesthomas

Yeah Jeff I agree but, can you imagine hanging out at one of the killer campsites until the water comes up next weekend and having the river/campsite totally to you and your crew? Pretty cool if you ask me. No matter what don't start dissing on the DWCD because the Dolores River Advocates have finally got them communicating which is one step away from having input. Do I think they are hoarding water and hurting their their own communities economies and screwing up a unique ecosystem, absolutely, but going off on them is not going to help. If it does run, play nice and tip well because if anything is going to change their policy local people showing up the the board meeting and being on our side would be huge.


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## b.pi

Canyons downstream of the dam are starting to melt out. Slickrock gauge up to 200 CFS. Next few days you may be able to squeak a rocky duckie ride from Bradfield if Narraguinnep melts out......would be nice to know if there's any new rockslides out there....just sayin'


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## MR. ED

There's definitely a "use it, or they'll take it" mentality around here. I've heard everything from the Walmart family wanting more water for their ranch somewhere downstream, to Phoenix wanting to buy shares to export water there, lot's of paranoia. 
I think they're finally starting to realize what a precious commodity water is. Over the last couple years more of the ditches are getting put in pipe and buried, and more ditches will be buried in pipe from here on out. For years there was a laissez faire attitude around here and it's starting to change. 
Mattman.. I agree that they feel somewhat threatened by recreational use, for whatever reason. 
Remember....whisky's for drinking and water's for fighting...:-D


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## kayakfreakus

718 in Dolores canyon and 1,100 @ gateway...guessing some is natural melt but releases started?


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## DanOrion

kayakfreakus said:


> 718 in Dolores canyon and 1,100 @ gateway...guessing some is natural melt but releases started?


Nope. Note yet. Detail Graph


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## matt man

Been looking at that to.
Since it is still 40 cfs up by Bradfield, I’m thinking it’s just low level snow pack, melting off down some of the side Canyons bellow McPhee, as well as the San Miguel, adding some.
My guess is that both will drop for a while, then bellow the San Miguel will go, more or less, for whatever it’s gonna run for. I think the Miguel historically runs a bit later??

Wouldn’t be surprised if there is at least a pack raft/ small boat window coming up quick, might leave ya dry though, so use caution if ya go!


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## jamesthomas

I have lived in sw colorado for 20 years and this years mid/low altitude snow pack has been bigger than anything I have seen so far. All the rivers in this corner of the state are going to rip starting soon. Piedra went over 1000 cfs today. Weather is supposed to stay warm until mid week then another extended period of cold snowy up high rain low down for 2 weeks. Will be a big year for all the rivers around here. C'mon down and get some. Dolores is almost a sure thing. My guess is that it will be early/mid may when the DWCD folks realize that they have got to start spilling and depending on the storms between now and then it could be bigger than 2017. Keep an eye on the news from DWCD after their meeting on the 18th of this month. Matt, let me know what your plans are, it would be awesome to get on the river with you again.


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## matt man

1100 @Dove crick right now, going up 40 cfs an hour.


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## wsmckinney

*Intriguing....*

This interest me very much... Can someone post a link for the gauge near Bradfield bridge, I can't seem to find one online... The one I found says 40cfs, but also says disabled. Cheers!


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## rtsideup

Guage at Bradfield is likely correct. 40cfs is what DWCD said that they'd be releasing.
I'd be packing the truck right now to hit up Big Gyp to Bedrock if I didn't have access to a weather forcast. Looks like a cold and snowy next couple days.


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## kb52

Big discrepancy at 9:00PM tonight between Slickrock and Bedrock gauges. Which one to believe?


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## matt man

59’ left in that big hole up there, before there is absolutely no space left to store water. That’s up from McPhee being about 72’ low, back in early Feb. 
Still a lot of snowpack left, we shall see...

kB, that looks like just the daily bubble from temp fluctuations through out the day, since all but 40 cfs is natural flow from side streams.

James, not sure when I will get out there, but hoping that it will be soon! If nothing else, Gateway section will be in, if upper sections are running, and I can pull it off, will probably go for those if I can make timing work. 

Really happy to at least see some dam water go down that river right now, even if no one boats it, the river eco system needs a river...


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## powrider686

Can any tell me about rafting below Bedrock? The Gateway section or all the way to the Colorado? Or if there are any other stretches down that way that a fun to do as a single or multi day? I've never been down that far but thinking it would be a fun place to explore. 

Thanks in advance!


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## blucat

*2019 is gonna be a good year*

Hey guys, I'm planning a run down the Dolores this year (just Slick Rock to Bedrock). I've never run this section. My understanding is that it is over grown given its lack of use over the years.

I'm interested in finding information on campsites, landings, etc given that it got some use in 2017. Any info you can provide will be helpful.

thanks in advance


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## matt man

blucat said:


> Hey guys, I'm planning a run down the Dolores this year (just Slick Rock to Bedrock). I've never run this section. My understanding is that it is over grown given its lack of use over the years.
> 
> I'm interested in finding information on campsites, landings, etc given that it got some use in 2017. Any info you can provide will be helpful.
> 
> thanks in advance


If you can’t catch an eddy, catch a willow!! 
Things are usually pretty choked out by the vedge, including campsites and eddys, so be ready to grad onto something if you need to stop, and flows are up just a little.
It is fairly mellow through that section, class II-III, but you do need to be on your game a bit and pay attention, partly since things get congested from side stream debris, and vegetation encroachment
Check out Dolores River Boating Advocates. I believe they have an interim map that they were working on in 2017 when it last had water.

It is challenging to make maps of a river that often has no more than 40 cfs for the “ down stream fishery’s” ( if that is not a joke, I don’t know what is).

Also, please consider helping support the work DRBA does for the Dolores, as well as organizations such as American Whitewater. The Dolores needs all the help we can give it, just to have a shot at even BEING a river.
I don’t think any other river in the west, has been so over allocated, and 
mis-managed, from a water use standpoint.....

Have a wonderful time if you go! Dolores is simply an awesome little river when it runs.


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## WyBackCountry

Paddled 2 miles of the San Miguel to the confluence and then about 20 miles of the Dolores towards Gateway. Was great scenery


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## ColoradoDave

My theory is that the snowpack is melting, but filling up the aquifers that are dry from last year. I see the glistening on the high snow every day, but no real river flow increases.

When they are back to full, it will cut loose meaningfully because it is late in the sun cycle by about a month vs. 2017. At 150% I would think they should get full again to 2017 levels, and then some.
Or I could be wrong. Time will always tell.


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## matt man

A little less than 53’ bellow max reservoir elevation now.


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## boatingbuss

AzPackrafter said:


> Paddled 2 miles of the San Miguel to the confluence and then about 20 miles of the Dolores towards Gateway. Was great scenery


Hi there. I saw your post about floating the miguel to the dolores. We are packrafters from Flagstaff and are looking at a number of runs for Saturday-Wed of next week. I am super interested to hear more about your trip. Specs? Did you run into barbed wire in the river? -Sarah


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## jamesthomas

I have floated that stretch a couple of times. Put in at the Uravan site there is a huge flagpole there that you can't miss. I think it's six miles to the confluence with the D. About a mile after the confluence there is a camp on river left with a very short hike to a very cool feature. Landing comes up fast, be ready. River right around the corner, maybe a half mile is a camp that has wild asperigus about this time of year. Plenty of room on this one. Almost all of the float is roadside if that bothers you. Very little traffic. Mile 125 river right is the last shady camp before Gateway. It's not on any map. Scenery is fabulous the whole way. Only one real rapid as I recall which runs right. Awesome stretch of river with a short shuttle. No barbed wire anywhere. Go for it, you wont regret it.


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## blucat

Thanks for the input. I'm starting to get the traction I need to get this thing going. That being said, I do have another question.

*What about driftwood? *I would think there would be an abundance, but what is the expected approach to fire wood here. Should I bring some or is there driftwood to be used?


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## crispy

*any updates on the Dolores outlook meeting last night?*

did anybody go? curious how the discussion went and what the flow outlook might be...

nothing posted on the conservancy district or advocacy sites yet....


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## powrider686

The Slickrock guage hit 1,970 CFS this morning and ~1,800 yesterday after being asleep during the last cold front. Today and tomorrow warm before another storm moves in Sunday. How much low elevation snow is left out in that area? Anyone care to guess how long these flows will last? They definitely are low elevation snow melting, it dropped below 1,000 overnight then popped up quickly. Would be fun but having it drop out mid canyon could suck...


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## jamesthomas

Lots of firewood. Not so much driftwood but old dead stuff in thickets etc. If you have loppers and a pruning saw you are golden.


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## b.pi

The lower may have a few days left in it yet. Yesterday's cloud cover slowed the melt but looking at seventies by the end of next week at 7k, it'll be hot down low. 

In upper Dolores news, ran Bear Creek down yesterday and cut out two strainers. All clear below Bear Creek.


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## brwilzon

The lower Dolores was rocking on Saturday and State Line was no joke at 4k.


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## Andy H.

*DWCD Meeting on the 18th?*

Wasn't there a meeting on the 18th at which they discussed the prospect of releases that we could take advantage of?


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## angelabyrd

Andy H. said:


> Wasn't there a meeting on the 18th at which they discussed the prospect of releases that we could take advantage of?


I didn't make the meeting but just spoke to Ken at the Dolores Water Conservancy District. He said, even though April has seen a decrease in precipitation from March, there will still PROBABLY be a release...but it won't happen until late May at the earliest. I guess this is the earliest they think the reservoir could fill. Of course, if we see a succession of hot days this could change, as we've seen spur-of-the-moment "uh-oh" releases in the past, right? They will make an announcement on May 7th or May 8th on their website:Releases :: Dolores Water Conservancy District


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## pcrawford

*Dolores*

I'm trying to get on the Dolores for a May 1 launch. Right now is it boatable? The McPhee Dam report says its only releasing 40 CFS but Bedrock is showing 1100 cfs. 

https://www.americanwhitewater.org/content/River/detail/id/387/

Is that all small Tributaries coming in? If so are they below Slickrock and above Bedrock? 

So long story short is May 1 launch going to be doable? 

Thanks!


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## rtsideup

Please read thread before posting stupid questions.


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## pcrawford

So I have read through the threads and I'm not exactly familiar with the rivers down there so either I'm really stupid or I just missed the info. Previous questions still stand if someone could please help me out.

Thanks


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## Joedills

The short answer is the Dolores below the dam will likely not be running May 1. My girlfriend went with a small group from the dove creek pump house to slick rock this past weekend and had a great time. Currently we're seeing boatable flows from low elevation snow melt, which isn't likely going to last very long. Right now they've put the odds of a boatable release from McPhee at 50/50 and I'd say those odds are decreasing with the lack of precipitation we've had the past month. A friend attended the meeting they held in Dolores on the 18th and as far as a boatable spill they didn't say anything new. It is at this time uncertain.


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## b.pi

https://the-journal.com/articles/135850-boating-release-very-likely-on-dolores-river#slide=0 

It probably won't be boatable May 1, most of the mid and lower snowpack is melting/gone, Slickrock gauge keeps going down every day. 

Can anyone explain why they only think there's only 130k a/f at the CRBFC 50% forecast? 

CRBFC 50% forecast = 425k a/f
To Fill McPhee = ~160k a/f

Irrigation will ramp up shortly and be taking while it's filling, but still, it seems kind of low.

And last thing, their 40k to 130k a/f spill levels equate to 20 to 66 days if you just let it go at 1000 cfs. They obviously won't, but at a minimum it's seeming like a 7-12 day spill is almost a sure thing, and I would be surprised if it isn't much longer.


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## matt man

Can anyone explain why they only think there's only 130k a/f at the CRBFC 50% forecast? [/QUOTE said:


> “Conserving and developing the Dolores river for DOLORES and MONTEZUMA county’s, in southwest Colorado”
> 
> I believe the Dolores Water Conservancy District, really does not want people boating the Dolores. Every year that there is a possibility of a release, they say, “ no, no, no, it probably won’t run”. They do not want people down there on that river, the more people that boat it, the more momentum for changing how the river is managed, or mismanaged. And that is against even there very mission statement, and point of existence, keeping as much of that water, as absolutely possible, IN Dolores and MONTEZUMA county’s, selling off the river for max profit, conserving it from going down stream.
> 
> I believe the only way things will change, is through a LONG effort, of changing public sentiment ( or a house boat and some dolphins), especially near by to the Dolores river.
> Things like getting kids in the area out on the water, so that they can see the river for being a river, not just an irrigation ditch to be exploited. So they can see boating as a good thing, not just a bunch of damn fools out there splashing around and waisting a resource, by allowing some water to go on down stream, instead of growing some more Alfalfa.
> 
> I think it is of the utmost importance if we want there to be a river, to do what we can, to change how people see the river.
> Organizations like Dolores River Boating Advocates, are doing some good work to forward this cause.
> Or anything else you think you can do to help.
> 
> Opinions of the public, will help shape the future, for good or bad.
> 
> End soap box for Matt Man.


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## thunderfoot

I have been running the River of Sorrows since way before McFee. Back then it went well into August. Mcphee is the changeling, read some books. A Story that Stands Like a Dam, Cadillac Desert, anything that explains the BuRec projects that started in the 1920's. Wayne Aspenall projects that McFee was the last of. 
NO Water is is being released from the dam... (50 cfs) as usual. The flows that are there are from the runoff of high mesa snowmelt, (downstream) from the good winter we had. Which will end soon, and way before 200,000 acre feet gets to the res.
Just look at the Rico, and Dolores gauges, and the release gauge.
Education is understanding, comprehension, and knowledge.


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## b.pi

matt man said:


> ...
> Things like getting kids in the area out on the water, so that they can see the river for being a river, not just an irrigation ditch to be exploited. So they can see boating as a good thing, not just a bunch of damn fools out there splashing around and waisting a resource, by allowing some water to go on down stream, instead of growing some more Alfalfa.


I've been doing just this since they were 6 weeks old and 2 weeks old. We also have friends that work for DWCD, and others that are farmers. Like all things in western water, it's not so simple, and law is on the side of irrigators.

Mine was an actual question to any buzzards with a hydrologic bent. From what I can discern, there's more water in the hills than is being incorporated into the release forecasts. DWCD has a notoriously bad reputation for accurate forecasting of releases, but there hasn't been a trip on the lower that I haven't seen the folks in charge of the dam at Bradfield smiling and interacting with boaters, and in many cases going down the river themselves. 

And to thunderfield's point, the philosophy is spot on, but the dam isn't the only release point, you have to incorporate all the ditches plus the dam, and those add up to 200 CFS as of today and will only go higher as May goes on. So I guess I need to look at mean flows of all of the ditch outlets and incorporate those into my best guesses.


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## matt man

I figured you were asking an actual question, b.pi, and had a pretty good feeling that you have been trying to get the next generation out there to appreciate the river for what it is. I was trying to make a bit of a point to people about the need to work at changing things, I hope I didn’t come off the wrong way to you.
I appreciate the work that YOU have been doing, friend!

Sounds like we have a very long, and complex issue to work at, that may not be solved entirely, in our own life times.


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## Kelmuse

Thanks for all the informative posts. I’ve been running southwest rivers since 83 but somehow missed running the Delores. I’d love to see it at least once. Sounds like it’s tricky to time it just right, even if it does run, which sounds unlikely this year.


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## basinrafter

Save the Colorado posted a link to this article on FB last night....maybe there's hope for a boating season on the Dolores this year? 
https://the-journal.com/articles/13...T-ghX7McJbb4VncF26zHICYzGrZF6S11n9q_TsAruEKe4


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## crispy

and a similar message on the dolores conservancy district site:

Releases :: Dolores Water Conservancy District


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## heytat

So, if it happens is it a daily? An overnight? What the plan for a newcomer?


Thanks in advance


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## b.pi

There's a large tree across the normal right channel on the upper in town. Not a crazy move required to avoid but something to look out for and avoid.

37.475005,-108.486127

Upper is forecast to be nearly 4k on Wednesday morning, with up to two inches of rain on top of the snowpack Monday and Tuesday. Could push flood stage in town which isn't a good thing. Lost canyon is posting record flows. My math says May 24 it'll be full unless they start making room soon. 

heytat you can do a daily or a twelve day to the Colorado. Lots of inbetweens. Snaggletooth is a solid IV and stateline more than that. Otherwise read and run except maybe diversion dam....lots to pick from.


----------



## thunderfoot

2000 cfs going into Mcphee as of 4/ 27 2019. That is a bit less than 4000 acre ft per day.
mcphee is well over 200,000 acre feet low.
That flow will of course ebb and flow... but times 30 days 120,000 acre feet is waaay short of a fill up.
Even if the mighty D went to 4000 CFS for 30 days, which is about as likely as an Ibex fart hitting you in face in Frasier, Co. it would still fall short of full pool or spill level.
While the Dwcd tries to do good for all concerned, their hand is NOT on the lever.
Aquifers are not just low, but dry in the SW. A lot of runoff will never see the river.

The speed of light is 186,000 miles per second. The speed of ignorance, like the speed of dark, lies beyond our comprehension, apparently.


----------



## b.pi

McPhee needs 139k af to fill. The median crbfc forecast is 419k af. It’s accumulated 80k af to date. Snowpack has lost five inches swe since the melt started leaving it still at 2017 peak values. 2000 CFS is half the forecasted peak, and probably much lower than the actual one given a ripe snowpack and a rain on snow event en route. You also haven’t accounted for the mid elevation melt, and lost canyon doing about 1500 af a day on its own, as well as the 4 non gauged inflows.

If every day were like todays 6 day forecast, it would be 29	days until a spill, or on	5/26/2019
McPhee needs to fill 37.13	feet until spilling	
At CRBFC's Median Forecast, there is an estimated 199,487	Acre Feet of water to spill	
At CRBFC's Median Forecast, there are 101	Days of spill at 1,000 CFS	
At CRBFC's Median Forecast, there are 50	Days of spill at 2,000 CFS	
At CRBFC's Median Forecast, there are 34	Days of spill at 3,000 CFS	
At CRBFC's Median Forecast, there are 25	Days of spill at 4,000 CFS	
The most likely spill duration is 52	Days	

But yeah, my ignorance is beyond comprehension as well so you should go with your gut and not come down for the non existent spill....it’ll suck for sure.


----------



## benrad

I like those numbers. Just wondering are you including the flow going to the farmers? I assume that is going to be fully open shortly.


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## thunderfoot

*Dolores River*

Benrad, there is about 200 cfs being diverted at this time, for irrigation and the Toawac power station. This fluctuates and will be on the rise. Insignificant for fill & release. Kyles Conversions is a good site to convert CFS to AF/Day.
Bipi- wasn't trying to piss in your cheerios. The res will certainly fill this year- especially with the coming two day storm, today and tomorrow increasing flows!
With 4 decades on the mighty D, pre and post dam, the interesting thing to me is the fervor to run it- understandable- as it is maybe the most diverse, interesting, pleasant,challenging rivers around. Used to be the least visited, too.
The question is the spill - when and for how long?
The dwcd has recognized the boating demand and tries to accommodate.
In the 80s ( before rafting was as popular as now) and the river was dry, they spilled and those who were aware jumped on it. The dwcd did not spill for rafters then - just for the Lake level and to make room for inflows.
Then they turned it off. I have several friends who were left stranded with rafts and gear above the de-salinization plant when that occurred.
The USGS has attended DWCD meetings cautioning them to be careful of predictive spills as their reliability track record had left a lot to the imagination.
Since then they have improved a lot. KUDOS! Ramped spills and improved time frames, since the boaters were creating mayhem if it did not happen.
2 to 3 week spills every 3 to 5 YEARS did little to flush the canyon, so about 4 years ago they let a pretty good flood loose to clean things out. 
This was magnanimous and helpful, as the DWCD had recognized boater use and economic impact. But not enough to restore years of un-impeded Tamarisk growth and silt accumulation.
The BLM even toyed with the idea of permits... but was shelved as you can't create a permit system when no one knows when to go!
Bottom line: When it happens weekends will be a zoo. Mid-week less so. Campsites that were beautiful and easy are overgrown - bring loppers. Go in small groups as more camps are available than a 4-6 boat 20 person group.
And yes you are right... you will not see me down there. Mostly because i remember running Brad to Bed and seeing 3-4 other boats the WHOLE time, if that.


----------



## blucat

*Firewood ?*

Please tell me you're not talking about dirty _stinky old_ Tamarisks!


----------



## jgrebe

"That flow will of course ebb and flow... but times 30 days 120,000 acre feet is waaay short of a fill up. Even if the mighty D went to 4000 CFS for 30 days, which is about as likely as an Ibex fart hitting you in face in Frasier, Co. it would still fall short of full pool or spill level."

"The res will certainly fill this year- especially with the coming two day storm, today and tomorrow increasing flows! The question is the spill - when and for how long?" 



That feeling when you realize you suck at math


----------



## b.pi

If every day were like todays 6 day forecast, it would be 31	days until a spill, or on	5/30/2019 
McPhee needs to fill 33.82	feet until spilling	
At CRBFC's Median Forecast, there is an estimated 185,984	Acre Feet of water to spill	
At CRBFC's Median Forecast, there are 94	Days of spill at 1,000 CFS	
At CRBFC's Median Forecast, there are 47	Days of spill at 2,000 CFS	
At CRBFC's Median Forecast, there are 31	Days of spill at 3,000 CFS	
At CRBFC's Median Forecast, there are 23	Days of spill at 4,000 CFS	
The most likely spill duration is 49	Days	

thunderfoot's right, the releases for irrigation aren't a ton right now compared to the inflows, but once they ramp up my days to spill number will go up but be tempered by the higher runoff around that time. You could probably figure out when they typically do their releases and how much and build it in, but it's filling much faster than they can get rid of it, and so far they haven't started in earnest. 

The res filled over 10k af since the last time I looked (10 feet in six days). The copious rain we're getting now isn't going to hurt, nor is the warmup again after the rain.

Just need time and it'll happen. Even at CRBFC's minimum forecast there's a 35 day spill still up in the mountains. 

The dam changed things, just like every other river with a dam on it. The river is certainly not what it was pre-dam, but I wouldn't know since I wasn't alive yet. For a non-permitted multi-day trip, I'm having a hard time thinking of a better place. Sure, the put-ins get crowded, and can get frustrating. Be courteous, rig on your trailer, and go. Outside of that I haven't had a bad interaction with another group, and there are a ton of campsites within the gorge. They're certainly more overgrown in the WSA stretch, but nothing a good pair of loppers can't help. 

But seriously, don't rig on the ramp. You know who you are. And especially if you've taken out at the new Slickrock ramp, that place sucks and you can easily miss it if a junkshow group has decided to take the entire thing. I'm going to have to start tagging those kind of groups gear with "LODO RAMP SHITSHOW 2019" stickers. Any graphic designers want to help out?


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## coloradoajm

*Gateway to Dewey Bridge*

Has anyone run from Gateway to Dewey Bridge at this water level. It's running at 4,000 to 5,000 CFS. I'm considering doing shuttle friday night and running this on Sunday. Can you do this in a day? 



How crazy is it down there at big water? I'm curious if high water washes some of these rapids out, or makes them bigger.


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## benrad

Runable in a day but the camping after state line and 3 mile or whatever it is is really nice.


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## angelabyrd

*DWCD says possible spill the week before Memorial Day*

Friday May 3, 2019 McPhee Release Update with PS :: Dolores Water Conservancy District


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## matt man

thunderfoot said:


> Bottom line: When it happens weekends will be a zoo. Mid-week less so. Campsites that were beautiful and easy are overgrown - bring loppers. Go in small groups as more camps are available than a 4-6 boat 20 person group.



Yes. 

You are way better off, if you do get the opportunity to run the Dolores, if you keep it to a small, experienced, group. 
It’s really not a conducive river for the big, invite anyone, party, type trips. The camps tend to be small and grown in, hard to find do to the rampant vedge. You might get skunked trying to find a spot for the night, and have to share, especially on weekends. 
Keep it small, be flexible, if you do end up going!


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## Droboat

For the math challenged, McPhee will probably keep rising 1.5-2.5 feet per day IF it stays warm. Subtract backward from 6920 for the release date. 6898.5 now. Puts my guess in at May 15, with two day lead time from DWCD and the Wrecked Bureau.

Expect that DWCD will only give the order to release water to keep the dam for overtopping, and their own greed will probably cause them to believe the low-ball estimates they are publishing. The release calculus will ignore the likelihood of a rain on snow May 23 while the Dolores is raging at 6000 cfs and it is too late to dump enough through the penstocks. Not sure if plywood will be enough to correct for their mistakes. What is the speed record for Bradfield to Gateway?

Good year to cook up a batch of mussels and pinto beans on the banks of the Dolores, and wash it all down with a good Chianti.


----------



## eddy hopper

Droboat said:


> Expect that DWCD will only give the order to release water to keep the dam for overtopping
> raging at 6000 cfs and it is too late to dump enough through the penstocks. What is the speed record for Bradfield to Gateway?


I'd expect some kind of a spill soon to prevent the overflow. But to see 6,000 again would be really good for that river canyon. I think it was 1979 when it ran that big.

My girlfriend and I rowed from Bradfield to Moab in 4 days at 1,400 at 6,000 It'd be fun to try that one again.


----------



## blucat

What about at the Put in? I've assemble a small group and we will be launching mid-week in an effort to avoid the weekend show.

But I'm not familiar with the put in and how/where we can congregate the evening before?


----------



## rtsideup

Where do you plan on putting in?


----------



## blucat

good question! I have a small group that will put in mid-week in June at Slick Rock. This is the main reason for my question and the information that is most needed.

But I have a smaller group that may put in up stream at Dove Creek a couple days earlier. If you have info for this site as well it will be appreciated.


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## rtsideup

I'm going to say that Slickrock is the only put in where you can't camp. AFAIK it's private property and a couple years ago they stopped letting people put in there. This has been resolved but, highly unlikely that you can camp there. 
Dove Creek Pumphouse; yes, good camping.


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## DanOrion

rtsideup said:


> I'm going to say that Slickrock is the only put in where you can't camp. AFAIK it's private property and a couple years ago they stopped letting people put in there. This has been resolved but, highly unlikely that you can camp there.
> Dove Creek Pumphouse; yes, good camping.


If I recall correctly, there is public access, camping and a nice boat ramp just downstream of slickrock at Gypsum Valley.


----------



## Electric-Mayhem

DanOrion said:


> If I recall correctly, there is public access, camping and a nice boat ramp just downstream of slickrock at Gypsum Valley.


Gypsum Valley is actually about 8-10 miles downstream. You miss little Glen Canyon which has a few nice camps, but it probably wouldn't ruin the trip to skip. Might be worth extending the trip to there if you did Bradfield down if for no other reason then having to pay to use the Slickrock ramp and easier access. It is a kinda rough road down to Gypsum Valley but your average unmodied 4x4 vehicle should make it unless its been raining a ton and gets muddy.


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## markhusbands

We're hoping to put in at Slickrock in June, but not planning to camp there. Do I understand correctly that it is acceptable to put in there?


----------



## Electric-Mayhem

markhusbands said:


> We're hoping to put in at Slickrock in June, but not planning to camp there. Do I understand correctly that it is acceptable to put in there?


Yes...it is a put in and takeout. No camping, but should be some not far downstream and in the surrounding area if you want to spend a night before putting in.

Its privately owned and the land owner charges a fee to put in or take out there. As I recall its a pretty reasonable rate, but some people don't like to pay to play so the other option is put in at Gypsum Valley or one of the upstream boat ramps (pretty far upstream).


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## ArgoCat

We ran it two years ago and just crashed on the ground/trailers the night before in the parking lot at Slickrock and then dropped the boat in the water. Jungle put in without a developed ramp, so be aware. We had to pay, and not sure if we paid extra to crash, but it was reasonable. Arrived after dark and there was someone there to collect our cash. Obviosuly, this could have changed. The one thing about putting in at Slickrock is that everyone that puts in at Gyp Valley is ahead of you and grabbing camps ahead of you.


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## markhusbands

Is the scenery worth it? I'd rather do 50 miles than 36 but a better developed ramp is preferable.


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## rtsideup

IMO the stretch from Slickrock to Big Gyp is the least memorable part of the Dolores. 
The down side to putting in at Big Gyp is the long, slow dirt road from the Hwy to the put in.
BTW the put in at BG isn't what I'd call "developed" (there's no concrete ramp) just a spot where they keep the veg whacked back.


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## MoabColorado

and Trump will never be President


----------



## jthan

So, is this enough flow for most lightly loaded 14-15' rafts, starting out May 26? J

Tuesday May 14, 2019 McPhee Release Update
Today, McPhee will begin running temperature suppression flows of about 100 CFS downstream in support of the fishery – this will be on top of the current fishery releases of 40 CFS, bringing the total releases to approximately 140 CFS. These flows will run until the beginning of the managed release or “spill”, which will start on Tuesday May 21st. Releases will then increase at a rate of about 400 CFS per day in order to achieve releases of 1,200 CFS by the morning of Friday May 24th. This rate will then be maintained through Friday, Saturday, Sunday, and Monday of Memorial Day weekend. On the morning of Tuesday May 28th, flows will ramp down to 800 CFS and will remain there at least through noon on Thursday May 30th. The managed release is expected to continue after May 30th for an undetermined period of time and at undetermined flow rates.


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## powrider686

Yea it won't be big enough for rafting till the 26th 8)


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## jthan

We'd be launching at Slickrock (or Gypsum), not higher at Bradford.


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## powrider686

Got it. Trying to gauge the speed of the release myself. Comparing how long the flows take to reach the various gauges in previous years is what I have been up to this afternoon.


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## griz

jthan said:


> We'd be launching at Slickrock (or Gypsum), not higher at Bradford.


I just got back from a 3 day solo IKy trip from Gypsum to Bedrock with flows ~280 cfs. It’s very channelized through that stretch and even with that little water 99% of it would go in a larger boat and a little skill at maneuvering. You’d definitely get stuck here and there in a few rapids and where rockfall in the river chokes it off abit. So anymore water and, uh,...more easy, IMHO. That all said, these current low flows are much better suited to kayaks, IKies, or small, light paddle rafts. I think a big wing span with oars might get a little old...or not, in places.

I went down there to give it a look at these low flows and at the least learn about the new-to-me river abit even if I didn’t launch. Not a damn soul or car at either the put in or take out parking lots or on the river for those 3 days. 

Heh, I’m almost reluctant to post the info but the river needs some love and attention, no doubt.


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## rtsideup

Gonna be close. I'd predict yer on the ramp, looking upstream for the swell like a surfer. Good plan as every other buzzard here is on your heels searching for unrecognizable camps. Shit fight in a beautiful place, hope everyone plays nice.
Me, I'll be on the Juan, hitting up my local D in the following weeks when the shit fight has subsided.


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## griz

Yeah, the stretch I did had very few good camps. A couple showed signs of maintenance, the rest not so much. 

And big groups...you’re fucked.


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## griz

DanOrion said:


> and a nice boat ramp just downstream of slickrock at Gypsum Valley.


Bwahahaha!!!

Here’s a pic of that “nice boat ramp” May 2019.


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## bdaly

Hey, does anybody know the status of river access in Slick Rock?


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## ColoradoDave

rtsideup said:


> Gonna be close. I'd predict yer on the ramp, looking upstream for the swell like a surfer. Good plan as every other buzzard here is on your heels searching for unrecognizable camps. Shit fight in a beautiful place, hope everyone plays nice.
> Me, I'll be on the Juan, hitting up my local D in the following weeks when the shit fight has subsided.



And avoid a lot of that annoying planning stuff. Ug.


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## rtsideup

Planning sucks.
SYOTR neighbor


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## blucat

Awesome Pics! I'm looking forward to seeing this canyon so much. And I plan on bringing a little TLC to the camps for future enjoyment.

What is the low end flow level that is comfortable for rafts with oars from Slick Rock to Bedrock?


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## bdaly

blucat, what size boat are you running?


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## blucat

14' hyside


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## cschmidt1023

Starting in Uravan on the San Miguel as it peaks is a good option for people stressed about what the Dolores flows will be upriver from the San Miguel confluence. The ~6 miles on the San Miguel are pretty fun as a bonus.

There is a little campground (can't miss it pretty much the only thing in Uravan), which does not have a ramp but it is extremely easy to just push off from the grass.


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## markhusbands

Still raining and snowing.


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## ColoradoDave

McFee release only ~50 cfs today, not 400. So, seems like a waiting game for this funky weather to pass. Maybe things will happen a day or 3 later than it seemed before. 



The gauge to watch is here : Detail Graph, and, of course, the thermometers upstream. 




DOLORES RIVER BELOW MCPHEE RESERVOIR (DOLBMCCO)


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## bdaly

ColoradoDave said:


> McFee release only ~50 cfs today, not 400. So, seems like a waiting game for this funky weather to pass. Maybe things will happen a day or 3 later than it seemed before.
> 
> 
> 
> The gauge to watch is here : Detail Graph, and, of course, the thermometers upstream.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DOLORES RIVER BELOW MCPHEE RESERVOIR (DOLBMCCO)


How do you figure? It looks like it's at 400 cfs and rising.


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## GeoRon

Sure looks like 400cfs on the gauge to me.

This is the official update:

Today’s update is largely unchanged from lats week’s. McPhee continues to release temperature suppression flows of about 100 CFS downstream on top of the current fishery releases, bringing the total releases to approximately 140 CFS. These flows will run until the beginning of the managed release or “spill”, which will start after noon tomorrow, Tuesday May 21st. Releases will increase at a rate of about 400 CFS per day in order to achieve releases of 1,200 CFS by the morning of Friday May 24th. This rate will be maintained through Friday, Saturday, Sunday, and Monday of Memorial Day weekend. On the morning of Tuesday May 28th, flows will ramp down to 800 CFS and will remain there at least through noon on Thursday May 30th.


----------



## Electric-Mayhem

bdaly said:


> How do you figure? It looks like it's at 400 cfs and rising.





GeoRon said:


> Sure looks like 400cfs on the gauge to me.
> 
> This is the official update:
> 
> Today’s update is largely unchanged from lats week’s. McPhee continues to release temperature suppression flows of about 100 CFS downstream on top of the current fishery releases, bringing the total releases to approximately 140 CFS. These flows will run until the beginning of the managed release or “spill”, which will start after noon tomorrow, Tuesday May 21st. Releases will increase at a rate of about 400 CFS per day in order to achieve releases of 1,200 CFS by the morning of Friday May 24th. This rate will be maintained through Friday, Saturday, Sunday, and Monday of Memorial Day weekend. On the morning of Tuesday May 28th, flows will ramp down to 800 CFS and will remain there at least through noon on Thursday May 30th.


As posted in their release statement, it said it was supposed to go up about 400cfs a day starting yesterday. By the end of the day yesterday it had only gone up ~200cfs. It started at 140cfs yesterday and ended up at 350cfs or so. So...its definitely behind what they said right now. It should be 500cfs and rising...about.

Who knows if that trend towards being slightly behind will continue or if they will still hit 1200cfs by Friday.


----------



## Joedills

Looks to me like the gauge is at around 500 and rising

Detail Graph


----------



## ColoradoDave

Maybe the bear needs to be poked sometimes. 

Has gone up since the moment I posted that and back on track now. 600 is Kayak float trip flows Pumphouse to Slick Rock now. Around 5 - 6 hours traveling time for a day trip at 600.

If anyone goes tomorrow be sure and report back conditions.


----------



## Droboat

As folks cancel plans for early June, read the Dolores Water Lords' condescending and phony explanation why 15 inch snow water equivalent vs 5 in SWE doesn't matter. Know they have never, and will never, play it straight and will not do anything other than hoard water. WHEN it warms up, the Water Lords have pretty much greeded themselves into a corner, and some of that 15 SWE might go over the top.

"Also, there has been a statement floating around about this year being at “300% of snowpack”, and this has caused some confusion. What this means is that, _for this day of the year_, May 22nd – when most of our SNOTELS have traditionally melted out to zero – we are three times as high as we have been on average for this day in previous years. It does *not *mean that the current remaining snow is a record amount compared to the traditional snowpack peak dates, which are around April 1st of most years. It only means that what snow we have is lingering longer than normal."

Yes, that is your intelligence that is being insulted.


On the up side, even if these unelected water lords can't be trusted or reigned in, mussels are starting to show up on boats in Navajo Reservoir, so the damned era is one invasive step toward its inevitable demise. Kind of like mice, if you see a couple, you know there are far more that you didn't see.


----------



## tango

Are there any shuttles for hire? 

Hoping to blast a kayaks-only hot lap from Bradfield to Dewey Bridge. Possibly 5/28 to 5/30.


----------



## griz

Scroll down and there is a list of shuttle services. I used Ramona’s two weeks ago.answered the phone. Did the job. Cash only,no paperwork,etc.

https://doloresriverboating.org/


----------



## thunderfoot

*River of sorrows release*

Where does the water come from? And when. The conversation is not about "river lords".
There are other considerations.
Ramping up flows gradually is good for boaters and habitat, though I am all for a flood/flush. Which may happen this year.
In a weather year like this, (high snow pack - Low early run off,) when temps get to normal, big flows will happen.
Any time a dam is put in place it impedes flow, if we are as smart as we think...
But we are not. 
Look at Powell and Glen Canyon in 1982/83. I was there. Cataract went to 128,000 cfs. It is at 30 now, and will likely go to 60 by late june.
Cold temps, additional snow, and coming warm will bump things up to the point
that McPhee may not be able to release water fast enough to prevent overtopping. 
Not saying it will, but the water lords are thinking about it.
While I was a naysayer of fill, now I am looking at an inability to control the flow.
Runoff has not EVEN started yet.

But keep in mind, those diversions go towards growing food.

The river, be it the Grand, Cataract, San juan, Middle fork,or the Dolores, does not exist for your enjoyment. IT exists because of physics.
Nature, and the Earth. When we put dams on them we pretend to have control.
We do not. 
This year will stress a lot of control engineers as flow comes all at once later than predicted.
Predictions are guesses.
Engineers need to predict the runoff if all things are equal, to draw down the reservoir levels to accommodate inflow.
But when a drought happens and the reservoir is at historic lows, what would 
you do? I would fill it.
But... 
If runoff comes faster than release cabiblity, or if drouhgt brings levels to dead pool, do you want that job? 
Diversion, or boating? Food or fun?
The "Lords of the River" are just doing the best they can.
Cut them some slack.
The USGS is the ultimate arbiters
So relax. 
The flow and ramp up is happening.
The flood of people is there.
The destruction of the uniqueness of the canyon is well underway.
But by all means cut down and kill as many tamarisk as possible on your voyage.
The scourge of all western rivers.


----------



## jannelupe

thunderfoot said:


> But keep in mind, those diversions go towards growing food.



The McPhee dam provides water for irrigation- most of the water is used to grow alfalfa for hay. Alfalfa needs a lot of water and is not native to the environment. 

Also, the diverted reservoir water leaves the Dolores watershed and goes into the San Juan watershed, or evaporates in the canals. It's a use it or lose it system so people are throwing the water on the ground during rain and snow.
Meanwhile the lower Dolores canyon below the dam is getting choked with willows and the Ponderosa pines are dying, due to the extremely low water flows they release from the dam during most of the year. 

Yes some of the water goes for food for humans but most of it is for food for cows, resulting in profits for a few, and environmental degradation for all.


----------



## matt man

https://www.colorado.gov/pacific/sites/default/files/Colorado%20Agriculture%20Statistics%20Map_1.pdf

Yep, although Dolores and Montezuma counties grow beans and wheat for human consumption, these crops are dry land. The hay,(alfalfa) is the main crop that is irrigated.


----------



## ColoradoDave

Yeah. The Mussel thing. Colorado Parks jacked up the Boat registration by $25 this year ( Approx 50% ) citing this ' problem ' that they miraculously don't have here. Lake Powell did the inspections and decontaminations for years before finally admitting it was infested beyond control. The little buggers must have climbed the dam rather than come from upstream. They have given up now. I haven't been to Navajo recently, but probably the same there.


I did notice Blue Mesa doubled down on their release too despite being only 1/2 full. And Taylor did also a few days ago barely above half full. Ruedi ratcheting up too. And Ridgeway also. Same stories.


Oh well. Looks like good flows and good weather in the near future so SYOTR.


----------



## Andy H.

ColoradoDave said:


> Lake Powell did the inspections and decontaminations for years before finally admitting it was infested beyond control. The little buggers must have climbed the dam rather than come from upstream.


Umm, all it took was one boat with two mussels on it delivered by some asshole that said, "I don't have time for this boat cleaning shit, screw them government regulations." Then life just does it's thing.


----------



## griz

jannelupe said:


> Yes some of the water goes for food for humans but most of it is for food for cows...


we eat the cows.


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## Andy H.

griz said:


> we eat the cows.


Reminds me of this video by my spiritual guru (I thought I had a clever way to tie it in to the discussion, but I don't, but the vid's just too good not to share):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0O_VYcsIk8


----------



## Droboat

Not so much for cows as it is for people's hobby horses housed in Phoenix and Vegas, and mostly because the Water Lords claim a CRSP entitlement. 

Not sure why there is a taboo against eating them, with a side of mussels and dry land beans.


----------



## matt man

Ok, that was pretty fucking awesome, Andy!
Will admit that I was pretty distracted away, from all the great reasons to eat meat, by the vegetarian, though....


----------



## whip

*Hey!*

If you can't stay on topic I'm going to report you to a moderator!




Andy H. said:


> Reminds me of this video by my spiritual guru (I thought I had a clever way to tie it in to the discussion, but I don't, but the vid's just too good not to share):
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0O_VYcsIk8


----------



## jannelupe

You guys are funny. I was just trying to say that most of the water goes away from the Dolores watershed (thus ruining it) and also that the "food" is yes, mostly for cows, but not all of us eat cows (good video) because a lot of those cows are not to eat, they're just to raise "feeder calves" for the meat industry, well anyway- I don't want to get all into the meat vs. vegan thing, but it does seem a shame there's a dam- how about that for a new controversial subject? especially since all the kickass videos that boaters show (and worship) of the lower D. are before the dam. ha ha. Meanwhile, they are spilling now, Rico is 256 cfs, Dolores in town is 1280, and Slickrock is 1160 w/ the ramp down just beginning. But yes- there will be a second release... and perhaps the daytime temps will even be in the 70's. Irrigators are throwing water on their fields in the rainstorms (today) and the reservoir is (still) rising. Let's go on the lower D!!!


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## b.pi

The reservoir went UP 7" over the release....during cold temps...with over 20" SWE up there still.

I bet they're pooping their pants over those numbers today and will begin an anticipatory release shortly to make room once the BOR calls...

148,000 extra acre feet at least up there, 11.66 ft till full, and warmer than normal temps coming in early June. River may yet take the town with them finally adopting a ready set go system of evacs and having signs all over. Saturated soils as evidenced by the giant rockslide on 145 and another bout of rain today. Buckle up, BOR may come calling on McPhee this year to avoid another '83 episode.....a la GCD...but nobody learns so might be June 6 panic mode sudden release.


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## jannelupe

yep! let it flow... Evidently- according to oldtimers- the town won't be in trouble until Upper D is 7000 cfs... but they can't back up the reservoir much beyond the highway bridge and park anyway. Interesting for sure. Yeah, panic mode sudden release I'm sure!


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## matt man

El Diente 140%
Lizard Head 113%
Sharks tooth not reporting the percentage.


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## matt man

I have kind of a lot of work on my schedule for June, but maybe it is another good season for doing a bradfiield to Dewey run, I could just take 3 days to do it, instead of the 7 or 8 that I have taken in the past....


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## Andy H.

jannelupe said:


> Irrigators are throwing water on their fields in the rainstorms (today) and the reservoir is (still) rising.


Gotta love that "Use it or Lose It" part of the Doctrine of Prior Appropriation... 

The farmers will waterlog their fields, concentrate the salts in their soil, and flood out theirs and their neighbors' basements before they let anyone say they're not using all their allocation of water. They know it's wrong but they do it because they HAVE to if they want to keep their water rights under the system we've got.


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## thunderfoot

*Beef*

Once, in the 80's took a RN down when it was running good. Boating just for two. Packed all the gear and food and my 14'. Took care of the shuttle. Put in at Big Gyp, and cruised, no one around. Made a nice cliff overhang camp above Spring Creek. Fire reflecting off the wall, stars out, and grilled fresh Sea Scallops and Crab legs with pasta and asparagus with lemon and sauce.
Tucked in for the night, Paco Pads and blankets, 800 fill down comfort.
3 AM she got up and wandered off into the dark. Found some poison Ivy and to pee in and hurled.
Never talked to me again.
Should of brought rib eye and got layed.
BEEF! It's what's for dinner.

Oh well


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## Electric-Mayhem

I saw a bunch of "For Sale" signs on the drive through Dove Creek area on the way to Bradfield...I wonder how much land we would have to buy before we had enough water rights to then turn around and request that they be let down the river instead. Let the land go back to high desert status.


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## MT4Runner

The system sucks, but I just have to say THANK YOU to everyone who has run it this year and posted pics. I'm living vicariously through all of you.


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## b.pi

Releases :: Dolores Water Conservancy District

New release schedule is out. With a little guesswork and a peak of 2,000 (seems low), they plan on releasing ~63,000 AF over the first three weeks of June. Median forecast is showing 177k AF remaining, with a balance of 114k AF still over capacity. 

A relative warmup compared to the recent month is coming, and snowmelt will really get going on the upper, where about an entire peak snowpack is still locked up high. 

They've posted a schedule for 18 days of boatable releases, but at 2,000 CFS there's still another 27 days worth up in the hills. Even at 4,000 CFS you could have 22 straight days.....


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## steyely

"After June 9th, releases will remain at 1,200 CFS or more through Sunday June 23rd" holy smokes I thought that was a typeo! 

I've only done Bradfield to Slickrock, but for anyone who's done the whole Bradfield to Bedrock how many days did that take? At ~1200cfs I was estimating 5 days (on the water) would be reasonable to cover the whole section without pushing hard through the lower section.


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## WyBackCountry

MT4Runner said:


> The system sucks, but I just have to say THANK YOU to everyone who has run it this year and posted pics. I'm living vicariously through all of you.



Was an absolute zoo over Memorial day weekend but was still fun


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## QuietHunter

steyely said:


> "After June 9th, releases will remain at 1,200 CFS or more through Sunday June 23rd" holy smokes I thought that was a typeo!
> 
> I've only done Bradfield to Slickrock, but for anyone who's done the whole Bradfield to Bedrock how many days did that take? At ~1200cfs I was estimating 5 days (on the water) would be reasonable to cover the whole section without pushing hard through the lower section.


We were moving 4.5 to 5 mph most of the time last weekend with some light rowing. Did Bradfield to Big Gyp in two long, but not insane days (did not scout Snag). 
Advise taking your time, but I think 4 mph should easily be planned on.


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## thayes

We floated from Slickrock to Bedrock last Thursday-Sunday and averaged 4 mph without much work. Lots of drifting.


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## skiergirl

I run a minimax and can be self sufficient would love to go next week with some other people. I live in crested butte and like to have fun 420 and beer friendly hmu 970-596-9693


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## DidNotWinLottery

*Fathers Day Launch*

Thinking of launching for 4 Full Days on Fathers day with a 10 year old. Looks like great flows ( June 16th) Any other fathers want to team up?


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## Fly By Night

DidNotWinLottery said:


> Thinking of launching for 4 Full Days on Fathers day with a 10 year old. Looks like great flows ( June 16th) Any other fathers want to team up?


Father's day trip with a twist?


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## matt man

Well, you two have fun with that, fraid I can’t make it...


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## matt man

I’m so giddy!!!
Upper D just spiked up ta 3070, going into that Damn Dam!!!

Maybe I will just have to tell people July, when I send off all these estimates I have to do today!.........


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## matt man

There goes that early morning pulse of water again, at the west fork to McPhee gauge, 3610. Like an artery pumping blood, the pulse of the earth...


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## GeoRon

Maybe I missed an answer to this question and it's been a long time since I've done the Dolores. So please be kind if this is a really stupid question. Satellite imagery shows a good boat ramp put-in at Bradfield Bridge. Is it possible to pull a rigged boat onto a trailer at Slick Rock?


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## QuietHunter

GeoRon said:


> Maybe I missed an answer to this question and it's been a long time since I've done the Dolores. So please be kind if this is a really stupid question. Satellite imagery shows a good boat ramp put-in at Bradfield Bridge. Is it possible to pull a rigged boat onto a trailer at Slick Rock?


I think so. The worse thing about the takeout is that the water is moving a bit. Not horrible, but it is moving. The river access is through some foliage, but a boat should be accessible. There is a road going by and you should be able to back a trailer to the water if it is not too busy with other boaters. You might need some help if you are 5-10' short, but still should be do-able.


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## Juanto

Anyone have info on the Slickrock take out? Tough landing, cutbank height, trailer access?

Any info greatly appreciated. I juanto know.


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## GeoRon

I also want to know. Surely someone has been-there done-that recently. It would be very helpful.


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## markhusbands

Hopefully someone with direct experience will respond, but I've looked at Slickrock, Gypsum, and Bedrock on satellite and they all look preeeeetty rough.


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## Burl Haggard

The takeout at Slickrock is on a fast moving outside bend in the river. There is no eddy so it can be tricky. Space your boats out (farther than you might think) and be ready to jump off with a rope. The bank height is usually pretty level with the water at any boatable flow. You can pull alongside the river but can't necessarily back up directly to the water. It will be very busy so you usually just have to make the best of it. With a little de-rigging and a few strong backs you'll be fine. You'll only have to carry 10-20ft in most cases.


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## griz

markhusbands said:


> Hopefully someone with direct experience will respond, but I've looked at Slickrock, Gypsum, and Bedrock on satellite and they all look preeeeetty rough.


Gypsum had about a 2-3ft drop at the water edge @ 280 cfs. Not much of a staging area or tie off area at the water edge. Pretty small small access point at water edge. If it were crowded, you’d be having to just walk it down and launch. Didn’t seem like it would be too bad at slightly higher flows.

Bedrock had a STEEP 6 ft bank dropping into the water @ 280cfs. A little bit of current to make it a little sketchy and about 3ft deep standing in the water even at low flows. I was glad I didn’t have to drag out even an unloaded, framed raft there alone. Once you get over the edge of the bank, it’s a decent takeout though.

I’ve got nothing for slick rock. I looked at the area but didn’t have much info to go on and no cell service there to sort it out. The old upstream of the bridge one was long gated and locked and didn’t want to wander around on folks’ private property for figuring out the down bridge one. 

I posted this earlier but this is the gypsum launch. Small space at water edge though allot more further back. Chop some tamarisk if you got some time.


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## Prescott Fields

Launching on June 17 late in the day and taking out June 21. Looks like the flows should be 1500+ but who really know till you’re there. Question is with the days longer now go from Bradfield to slickrock with shorter days or shoot for Bradford to bedrock with longer days on the river. 97 miles in three full days with two partial days comfortably doable?


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## markhusbands

I'm doing the short Gypsum to Bedrock launching this Sunday. Flow and weather look great. My only worry is camp congestion.


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## sminifie

Hi Mark: I'm out here from Nevada planning on launching from slickrock on Sunday. I was hoping to have the river to myself! lol

Also, is the launch at slickrock something I should avoid? Maybe I'll see you out there.


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## markhusbands

I can't say from personal experience. All of the put ins appear to be pretty basic. Gypsum vs Slickrock? Not sure one is better than another (but other folks here might have an opinion). 

Mostly we just figured that if we had lots of time and not a lot of miles to cover it would make it easier to adapt in terms of open camps. Personally I had hoped to see some areas around the flume but that'll have to wait I guess.


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## mtnmecca

The put-in at Slickrock is fine. You park above the river next to the host house and pay. You then drive down a steep rocky ~100’ road to the river valley. Once at river level you drive along a sandy road next to the river with several places to unload gear. The road continues a bit next to the river and loops back around to the beginning. I did this with a 2wd large ford transit and didn’t slip once going up or down. There is a large parking lot up top to view everything as well. 
I used the previous put-in years ago and I think the new one is just fine. I don’t prefer bradfield simply because of the long dirt road and primitive ‘ramp’. IMO The float from Slickrock to bradfield is part of why we raft anyway. It is beautiful in that section.


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## theusualsuspect

I used slickrock yesterday. It’s fine, I backed my trailer into the water and winched my boat onto the trailer. My wife jumped out of the boat onto shore and helped me land. Any real concern is unwarranted. 

The road from the parking lot to the river (200 yards) is a little steep with loose rock but any respectable vehicle should be fine. Have fun!


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## dmcgrew18

Hey folks! Anybody been on the Bradfied to Slick rock section at these higher flows? 2,000-2,600 CFS going on 3 full days now! How fast is your average MPH? How is the Snag? Will be putting back on 6/16 and off 6/20


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## MR. ED

Just did bradfield to dove creek in 4 hours at 2600. No stopping. Have fun


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## dmcgrew18

MR. ED said:


> Just did bradfield to dove creek in 4 hours at 2600. No stopping. Have fun


Thanks for the beta! Shooting for a Bradfield to Bedrock over 5 days but may shoot for a Dove creek to bedrock to play it safe and not have to push our days too late. But at 5mph, the entire section to bedrock may not be a hassle!


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## WyBackCountry

dmcgrew18 said:


> Thanks for the beta! Shooting for a Bradfield to Bedrock over 5 days but may shoot for a Dove creek to bedrock to play it safe and not have to push our days too late. But at 5mph, the entire section to bedrock may not be a hassle!



At current flow you will have absolutely no problems going Bradfield to Bedrock over 5 days. I ran that section over memorial day weekend over 4 days/3 nights and we had no problems.


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## dmcgrew18

AzPackrafter said:


> dmcgrew18 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the beta! Shooting for a Bradfield to Bedrock over 5 days but may shoot for a Dove creek to bedrock to play it safe and not have to push our days too late. But at 5mph, the entire section to bedrock may not be a hassle!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At current flow you will have absolutely no problems going Bradfield to Bedrock over 5 days. I ran that section over memorial day weekend over 4 days/3 nights and we had no problems.
Click to expand...

Awesome! Were you putting about 5-6 hours on the river each day then?


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## WyBackCountry

dmcgrew18 said:


> Awesome! Were you putting about 5-6 hours on the river each day then?



We were typically on the river by 9:30am and off the river by 4pm at very latest. We were packrafting though so probably moving a little slower than most water craft.


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## portermoab

Any predictions on how long the flows will hold out for Slickrock to Bedrock (for a raft)?


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## WyBackCountry

portermoab said:


> Any predictions on how long the flows will hold out for Slickrock to Bedrock (for a raft)?



Latest update as of June 10th, 2019:

McPhee Release Update for Monday June 10, 2019
POSTED BY ERIC SPRAGUE ON JUNE 10, 2019
McPhee is currently releasing approximately 2,600 CFS downstream.

Managers increased releases on Sunday to 2,600 CFS to abate reservoir elevation gain as inflows into McPhee Reservoir exceeded projected peak inflows over the weekend.
Releases are expected to remain at approximately 2,000 to 2,600 CFS through this week and next weekend, June 15th and 16th, as current model runs suggest the current near-peak inflows (around 4,000 CFS) will continue through Sunday.
Following the weekend, releases are expected to ramp down some as inflows recede, though timing and target flows are still uncertain.
Releases will remain at a minimum of 1,200 CFS through Sunday June 23rd, after which flows are yet to be determined. Based on the margin of error in current inflow forecasts, it is possible there will be additional rafting days – this should become more clear in coming weeks. Details on flows following June 23rd should be available the week beforehand. More details will continue to be announced on later posts.

On Sunday morning, inflows into McPhee reached a peak of 4,880 CFS. This peak was both higher and earlier than forecasted, filling McPhee faster than was expected when the last update was posted. Because of this and the continued higher inflows projected for the upcoming week, the lower releases (1,200 to 1,800 CFS) originally intended for Tuesday through Thursday of this week would have caused the reservoir to fill earlier than desired, reducing control over the remaining releases downstream. To avoid this, releases are now scheduled to remain above 2,000 CFS through the present week. Releases are still expected to be at optimal rafting flows or more for the weekend, June 15th and 16th.

McPhee is currently about 15,000 AF below full capacity and should fill steadily over the next two or three weeks. As demonstrated by the change in releases this week, there remains the possibility that, should inflows increase dramatically beyond what is forecasted, managers will be forced to increase releases to maintain the desired steady gain in reservoir elevation. Please continue to check back on this site regularly for new updates, primarily on Mondays and Thursdays.

Currently, a high-pressure system is present over central Colorado, and above average temperatures are expected through Friday June 14th; however, some scattered cloud cover remains over the Dolores headwaters. The high temperatures combined with the substantial amount of snowpack remaining at high elevations are expected to sustain inflows around 4,000 CFS through to the weekend.

If you have questions, the best way to address DWCD is through the “Contact” page of this website. Otherwise you can try calling 970-882-2164 extensions 5, 1 or 6.


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## MoabColorado

Would like to run the Dolores between Gateway and Dewey. Anyone have a scoop on the shortcut shuttle from Castle Valley? Is it passable yet? Thx!


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## River Finger

MoabColorado said:


> Would like to run the Dolores between Gateway and Dewey. Anyone have a scoop on the shortcut shuttle from Castle Valley? Is it passable yet? Thx!





We ran that section over memorial day weekend and shuttled on that road. it was a little muddy and had some pretty big tire ruts for a few mile once we crossed over the state line into Utah. As long as your vehicle has some decent ground clearance (we were driving an older tundra and a jeep wrangler) and it doesn't piss rain up there right before you go you should be fine.


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## dgogirlie

Hi all. We are running a day trip from Bradfield to Pumphouse tomorrow. We've done this stretch plenty of times before but never at these flows. We will have kids with us, ages 3-9. I've taken these ages before, but wondering if it seems too dangerous at this level? I'm pretty cautious with them-- never run Smelter, etc., and usually this is a mellow stretch, but I'm having some doubts this morning. Any thoughts?


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## kb52

Catching a stop for camp or lunch will be challenging.


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## GeoRon

On Wednesday the Slick Rock takeout, which is below the bridge on the left, was excellent and easy to winch a boat onto a trailer. Beware, it sneaks up on you. 

It would have been easier had not been for some yahoos casually farting about. In other words, they were fully rigged apparently waiting for a shuttle to return totally blocking the best and preventing easy access to the last of 4 possible low-angle dirt takeout ramps. This lame behavior flashes back to the topic of bad etiquette. Boat ramp mantra should be "get my job done ASAP and get my ass out of the way".

The average GPS moving speed over three days from Bradfield to Slick Rock was 5 mph, at times much faster. Rarely was the current slower.

Concerning children above the Pump Station, at over 2600 cfs miles of the river are very fast with few eddies and lined with flooded trees(dense hawthorn, red twig, rose, etc) and willows making self rescue difficult even for an adult. At worst, it is generally class II+ to III- but inexperience, an over weight boat, inattentiveness or just screwing up will get you in big trouble.

Landings required proper forethought made possible by a led boat finding narrow slots through the flooded dense growth along the bank. (There are NO beaches to speak of.) Most of the slots are not seen until you have already passed by. Allow enough space for the lead boat to get settled and to help land each sequential boat otherwise a CF will result. Double parking is required at many landings. While these practices may be common for some rivers, I just thought I'd give a heads up for people not used to such requirements.


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## matt man

No.
I would not take kids that young on the section at this flow.
(I personally would not at any level). Listen to your gut, and leave the kids at home, or run something mellower with them.


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## DidNotWinLottery

Planning Sunday afternoon Launch with a 10 Year old at Bradfield in a 14' raft if anyone else is launching then.


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## matt man

Right now;
El Diente 140% snow water equivalent
Lizard head pass 112% 
Sharks tooth not reporting % anymore, but still at 40”

On the 12th Mcgreed was at 6921.48’ out of 6924’ capacity.

My guess is that with current snow pack and continued warm weather, pthey are gonna run out of space in that reservoir pretty soon, and that it will go to whatever flows nature decides on, based on what happens up river.

Could get some bigger spikes in flows. 
Have fun, be safe, make good decisions up there, ya’ll!!


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## wack

With the ramping down in flows what's a run from Gateway>Dewey Bridge looking like in a lightly loaded 13' boat? I've seen that 800 is the base min flow for a raft. Looking at next Fri the 12th..
Doable in a single night? 
Considering this over Westwater in the terrible teens...
The published guide only discusses Bradfield to Bedrock.


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