# Potentially best 1/4 mile of ww in CO, potentially...



## sward (Dec 14, 2003)

Went for a hike this w/e and checked out lower Wolf Creek below the tunnel of love and the clean 20'er you can see from the road. Check out the goods in the galleries.
It is an unreal gorge with 4 sick drops in succession. The only bummer is the really sweet drops land on rocks that are too big to wash out. The access is easy and could be run for most of the year.
Anyone have some spare TNT?
Thanks to Smiley for the heads up on where to scout...

Steve.


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## yetigonecrazy (May 23, 2005)

sward-

i think youre onto something here. have you checked out the site where they canyoneer the upper and lower? there looks like there was siiiick runnable drops on the upper. also, how big of rocks are we talking in the landing?

this creek could be uber sick


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## ToddG (Nov 29, 2003)

no dis ... but "onto something"???

wolf creek, which is roadside near one of the paddling meccas of the country, has been on the radar for many years. like in videos & stuff. the stuff thats runnable has been. the stuff downstream (photos) lands on rocks. that's not "potentially the best" anything in colorado -- it lands on rocks. the stuff upstream of the normally run section is huge & *may* be doable on your best day. once the old growth has been removed. if you're on par with the best creekers on the planet. with a film crew. there are 2 or 3 individual drops that, again, *may* go, but they're surrounded before & after by unrunnable junk. there's a reason why it hasn't been run, & that reason is *not* because it's some obscure undiscovered gem.

i don't get it -- how come all summer long getting people to even consider lake creek or yule creek, which are both amazing & *clean*, is next to impossible ... and yeti, i love your sense of curiosity about all the creeks & gorges in colorado, that shit's awesome. but as a self described class III paddler, your credibility in assessing the runnability of high-end class V or VI is pretty much nonexistant. that's a safety issue in & of itself.


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## yetigonecrazy (May 23, 2005)

...


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## ToddG (Nov 29, 2003)

you totally took that the wrong way bro. i can see how my post would come off as dick-ish. sorry for that. relax though, your temper tantrum is out of line.

look dude, i've seen throughout your 5 pg thread numerous times where you've claimed this or that to be "runnable", when it ain't. that's all. this isn't about who's allowed near anything, & i absolutely gag on the word "extreme". you can totally help clean, discover, map, photo, whatever you want & whatver your crew will have you along for, and that's great. if i was in colorado, you could haul wood out of anyting that i was looking to do & i would buy you a donut. buuut, you saying wheter something super gnarly is runnable or not, based on a map or a picture, is a different story altogether. you sound like a young grasshopper. you'll learn. & again, i wasn't disrespecting you -- i admire yr drive to explore & yr, um, spunk. 

ps, if yr sick of the "same old runs", heres a clue: start exploring in places that don't have one of the densest boater populations in the world. you can go one state south or north & find TONS of unrun quality stuff. seriously.

edit: this whiney bitch has already been there several times, junior.


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## sward (Dec 14, 2003)

Again, I can tell it is going to be a long winter. My posting of the pics and my subject line may have been misleading, unless you own dynamite. 

Just posting some pics that I thought were cool from a hike. If you are in the area stop in and check it out. It is a pretty special spot and the access is easy.

Yeti, I appreciate the enthusiasm, keep up the good work. 

Todd, let's not kill anyone's joy. 

Steve.


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## ToddG (Nov 29, 2003)

Fair enough holmes. Enjoy the snow! I'ma enjoy some whitewater ..


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## d.e. (Apr 5, 2005)

if you could had read the e-mail i sent to steve initially,you might have understood the irony of his post.we were talking about the stuff above the hwy and i mentioned the gorge below. unfortunately for all of us, the rocks at the base of the 4 falls fell in when CDOT blasted the hwy,so up to that point this 1/4 mile section of whitewater could have, POTENTIALLY, been the best in Colorado.actually the whole section from the tunnel would have gone.i finished by saying it's all about the what if's. so check it out someday if you already haven't, it's a really cool hike and great fishing.


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## matobs (Nov 26, 2003)

if the rocks fell in when CDOT blasted - why weren't they required to remove them? I know the contractor working on the other side of the wolf creek pass near the class V section of the South Fork of the Rio Grande is under intense pressure not put ANY rocks in the river or face stiff penalties from the Corps of Engineers. That's in the contract and it caused the project to be delayed and rebid b/c noone wanted that liablity and engineering challenge of moving literally hundreds and thousands of tons of rock with blasts and not putting rocks in the river. The riverbed was actually videotaped before the project started. 

just a random thought ... but if anyone has more spare time than I do maybe someone could talk to the Corps or CDOT to see about getting them removed.


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## steven (Apr 2, 2004)

or go down late fall with a really big prybar, some manpower and come-a-longs.....


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## Cutch (Nov 4, 2003)

After driving over Wolf Creek pass the other day, it did look like some new rocks had been pushed in. Let's not forget that this can be a good thing. Yes, it sucks when a good drop is destroyed, just as much as when a good drop is naturally changed (Tunnel Falls used to offer sweet downtime, w/o the beat downs). 

The drops on the South Fork looked unchanged, but I think some new ones may be there. Just think of all of the great runs that have been at least partially formed by blast rock from roads, mining, or railroads in Colorado alone. SSV is top of my list, plus Big Thompson, Gore, Spencer Heights, Joe Wright, Clear Creek's Silver Plume to Georgetown (seriously, its not even in the natural river bed, and still fun), Bailey, Barrel Springs, Upper Fryingpan, Lower Crystal stuff, Gillman Gorge (can you say Slurry Pipe?), Homestake, and of course the forbidden M-wave (which is worth the drive about once every 4 years). Maybe we could talk to CDOT about where to place the rocks. A little to the left please sir, and that big one up there in the flats... They just need a little proper guidance. 

Yes, I know none of the above runs are "super super classic" or should I say clean. (Before I get flamed, Gore and Bailey are classic, but they don't compare to half the runs around Durango or in the Crystal Valley in my opinion). But sometimes we get lucky with a little blast rock. Keep the fingers crossed. 

Yeti, don't take anything the wrong way. We all enjoy searching for something new. Just don't feel that it has to be new to the world to be cool. It just has to be new to you. Most people would rather see you stop filming and setting safety, and drop into a gorge with them. 

Fuck that sounded lame.


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## sward (Dec 14, 2003)

Good thoughts Kyle,
CDOT did not do this 1/4 mile any favors, we really need TNT and a long fuse.

Steve.


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## Cutch (Nov 4, 2003)

Steve, I'm all about blowing some shit up... Read any good dynamite books lately? 

E-ross said you were huge in the Florida find. Can't wait to check it next spring. I was born in Bayfield, and my family still lives there, so I've been curious ever since fishing it with my dad.


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## yetigonecrazy (May 23, 2005)

...


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## steven (Apr 2, 2004)

yeeee haawww


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## ToddG (Nov 29, 2003)

OK, li'l buddy, whatever you say. 


P.S. I didn't have anything to do with the first d of Tatlow -- that would be some Canadians.


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## lotsawater (Nov 18, 2003)

I agree with Yeti, Todd is extreme. 

But not as extreme as a class V rafter, does running gore classify you as a class V rafter? I'm a great rafter as well, maybe we can go on a class V run sometime.


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## E-Ro (Mar 23, 2005)

Im just reading through and really dont wont to get involved and take anyones side. However like always here's another MB thred where people are bitching at each other, and I cant resist a comment.

Yeti just to touch up on your comment about Todd being spoiled for exploring in BC and flying around in a heli. Thats just you trying to mold him into a class 5, hot head so that you can continue ripping on him. Id bet that hes never been in a heli and if he was it wasnt for boating. Dont give him shit for exploring BC either, hes doing that with his own hard earned cash, in a since like your doing in CO. For that reason there should be nothing holding you back from exploring BC so dont give him shit about it.


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## ToddG (Nov 29, 2003)

Nevermind. Lotsa, tooo funny. E-Ro, i have no cash. Help....


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## mrekid (May 13, 2004)

*Think about the outcome!*

OK, 
I want to preface this with the fact that I am a good friend of Todds but this has nothing to do with my response. Being that I am in the office 75% of my time I get a bit of spare time to review buzz. During this spare time I have viewed several pictures from Yettigonecrazy and I have to admit I have seen very little realistically runable drops. Now I have also watched Tao Berman run some sick shit that I still cant believe he got away with. But the point being none of it was clean and I dont really care for landing on rocks personally. Sure someone can scrape down rock and survive but does this mean this run will become the next whitewater gem of the state. I doubt it. I also think this talk about dynamite needs to be quelled. Modifying a river bed without the consent of the Army Corps of Engineers is a federal offense. Take a look at the outcome of the dynamite operation on the Salt. I dont think any kayakers I know would be happy as Bubbas bitch for the next five years. I am sure any court would look at this activity as malicious in nature given that there is a highway near by and in their eyes there is potential for structural damage. Anyway the point I believe Todd was trying to make is rather than daydreaming about runs that are really by all technical definitions unrunable. Lets focus our attention on runs that arent structurally impaired like those that land on rocks, such as runs with removable obstructions such as log jams. I dont know about the rest of you but in my opinion wood seems to be piling up faster than it is washing out. Or how about access issues last time I checked we are loosing the battle in the courts of Colorado for access to navigable waters. If we set a president in this state that we are willing to disregard the law for our own personal gain (dynamite or illegal access) then what kind of a message are we sending the people in power who can adversely impact our ability to recreate in Colorado. If legal president is established in this state allowing land owners to restrict access to navigable waters imagine the potential outfall. 
Sincerely, 
Dano 
P.S. Todd quit being such a dick, and yeti chill out if you can get past your wounded pride he makes some very valid points.


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## JJH (Oct 14, 2003)

lotsa, what the f*ck are you doing trolling right now. I just faxed you something much more important. 

All you other dudes. Chill out. Your all doing the same things, looking for ways to have fun. Exploring nature, getting out there and sharing info. 

Hasn't everyone realized, you shouldn't allow your feelings to get hurt on a forum. 

You all gotta learn to 'brush your shoulders off'.

TG-what did you do with your sled?


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## JJH (Oct 14, 2003)

ps. I think Prime Time is a great example of what might be the best 1/4 mile in colorado, but has a really bad log, that we must get outta there. cause that 1/4 mile always makes me smile.


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## d.e. (Apr 5, 2005)

ps. canyon creek-crazy steep-clean-scary. props to jed, toby and little dave for getting this one done.


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## kurfothich (Feb 28, 2005)

yetigonecrazy said:


> okay, heres my response to this:
> 
> Todd- i dont accept your apology at all, nor was my "tempert tantrum out of line"....you personally ripped on myself and my abilities with your statement about "being a safety issue". Thats a direct insult to me, and i dont take that kindly. and for your information, i dont just look at a map and some photos. if you had actually read my posts, you would find out i take EVERYTHING into consideration when talking about a new run. Length, Gradient, Local geology, local flora, other runs in the area, drainage basin size, etc. I dont just look at a map and say "this looks good". its an exhaustive process that i go through. i say "POTENTIAL" because that means theres POSSIBLY something there, and maybe there isnt. and if you know something isnt, how about instead of being a dick and saying "you think all these runs are awesome, and they aint".....drop a line and say "yo, such and such doesnt go". im not young and in need or learning; i have full confidence in my method. You are the one in need of something, and thats a damn ego check. dont even call me grasshopper or tell me i need to learn shit again. thats whack shit right there. as for other runs in other states, why should we settle for what we have in CO? theres plenty of sick lines left in this state that are un-run, and im sorry if you dont think so. i dont want to leave my beautiful state, and if dont have to, then im not going to. some of us arent spoiled enough to get to go scout shit by helicopter or find new runs in the british columbia wilderness. thats why i stay here.
> 
> ...


 yeti you need to check yourself because im pretty sure you need to learn your place in the boating community and as of right now your a rookie. And your giving paddlers from gunnie a bad name. So when you have been paddling for more than than half your life then you can talk shit espically ToodG becasue he is a really smart person, trust me i know! SO CHILL OUT and trust me on this one drop this argument.


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## Jiberish (Oct 20, 2003)

Are there any new waves yeti knows about? Im down to listen 

Ben Guska


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## steven (Apr 2, 2004)

w/o knowing either of these guys--i would say yeti may be guilty of being overly enthusiastic. [not a bad thing] i would say todd was guilty of being a cocky dick. the boating community is full of both types. i would enjoy meeting and boating with either of you, be it class 3 play or class 5 business. next issue...


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## jonny water (Oct 28, 2003)

Will you paddle with me??? I can swim class II but I can swim real fast! Plus I really really really like doing it. really, really!!

Yeah, what he said :roll:


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## steven (Apr 2, 2004)

sure waterboy--how about another "clean" run down the lower narrows? seriously-- it's pretty good that that is the only thing i can think of to give you $hit about. how's the fam? another on the way yet?


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## 217 (Oct 27, 2003)

jonny-

you can swim!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? sounds perfect for a new adventure...talk to those peeps on the CU swim team...apparently they can swim/tube anything.....


-aaron


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## Cutch (Nov 4, 2003)

Just for the record, I was joking about the dynamite thing, hence the good book reference. 

Fight less, drink more.


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## steven (Apr 2, 2004)

i wasn't about the pry bars, ass, and come-a-longs. are the rocks that big?


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## smcboating (Mar 6, 2005)

*What the [email protected], Over...*

You people should be ashamed of yourselves for being pathic enough to generate 3 pages of bullshit over basiclly nothing... Do you not have lives, wives, or at least a TV?If not get one, pay some attention to her, or buy one. This topic isn't about boating its about who can have the last word. I feel sorry for people who have more fun fighting with their imaganry cyber buddies than dealing in reality. I know none of you, but from what I can tell Dude "Yete" went on a hike, saw some cool water falls, tried to let people know cause he thought they were neat, maybe accedently misrepresented some things about it, end of story. Quit reading so much into so little. I don't live or boat in Co, but from the pics I saw, its obvious some of it might go, some of it probably doesn't, enough said. Most people who don't boat can figure out that falling 30 ft onto rocks is not good. Do you all need to chime in and try to make up people's minds for them?Oh yea..and what if it did go? Would you all be talking as much shit as you are now? Or would you all be jumping for joy and praising Yete's name. Think it through...

Reality check Co boaters....next season is a ways off, move on

Dr Phil 

PS. Spell check is broken...Suck it


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## sward (Dec 14, 2003)

Yo, R2 shouldn't you be making weird noises and projecting images of Princess Leia?

The rocks are too big to move.

Steve.


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## yetigonecrazy (May 23, 2005)

for the record, im not angry because he said all the runs i find arent shit, i realize that....most of them time when i talk about a new creek, its going to have two or three runnable drops, maybe a small section, but most of mine are low-volume or high altitude....i was pissed because he went after me personally, but i said get off my back and he did, so my posts have been retracted, and i consider this whole bidness over


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## jester (Oct 14, 2003)

That's why I like M-buzz. This is comedy at its best!


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## Jiberish (Oct 20, 2003)

Jerry....jerryy.....jerry....jerry.....
haha
bg


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## ski_kayak365 (Dec 7, 2003)

Cutch, how can you be drunk or drinking on most of the recent topics Ive seen you on? 2 in the afternoon here, noon on lucky 7 posts, dam i wish i could be drunk all the time....stupid school.....


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