# Desolation Canyon Ute Land Closure



## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

That is very informative.


...and also really difficult to read.


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## Riverwild (Jun 19, 2015)

I meant to post this one as well, much easier to read.


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## lmyers (Jun 10, 2008)

Those changes to Desolation are a real bummer, some of the best campsites in the canyon are on river left. Unfortunately it's the same situation everywhere. A few disrespectful individuals ruin it for everyone else..... 

- "The entire Ute reservation on river left of Desolation/Gray Canyons is closed to ALL use. That includes camping and hiking. The reasons given for this closure includes two private river trips removing elk and deer antlers from the reservation, illegal (nonpayment or permit) camping and hiking, damage to structures, theft of artifacts. No option for relief of this restriction was given by Ute Fish and Game.
{Desolation Canyon from above Sand Wash to Swasey’s Rapid has been designated by the U.S. Supreme Court as non-navigable. The United States retains title to beds of all federally non-navigable inland waters when the state within which they lie is admitted to the Union. In Utah that basically means if a river has been determined to be Navigable then the Utah State Sovereign Lands (Utah Division of Natural Resources; Division of Forestry, Fire and State Lands) has management oversight on that part of the bed of the river from its centerline to the ordinary high-water mark (OHWM) on the Utah shore, unless it is in a dedicated land (National Park or Monument, Indian Reservation, etc.)."-


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## Litig8r (Mar 23, 2011)

*closure*

That sucks for sure. It'll be harder to find a decent spot on river right now. 



We were out there this summer, and the most disrespectful group we came across was two boats of Ute rangers. When a bear started ambling down river, they shot AT it. It was still hundreds of feet from them, and hadn't even noticed them. A warning shot is one thing, but they were firing toward it. AND, they were firing through brush, up river. Any group that came down stream would have been in danger. Fortunately, they were the last group that came down that afternoon, but it was early enough that another group could have passed. They continued firing in its direction until it swam across the river. They fired a couple more shots at it even when it was on BLM land. That chased it right through our camp and towards a commercial trip a bit down river. Then they blared their music (god awful thrash metal) all night. I get that maybe that was to prevent the bear coming back, but it made for a terrible night. They also had an enormous fire in the middle of the fire ban. Do as we say, not as we do, I guess. 



We broke camp before them. I was shocked by how messy their camp was. They certainly weren't practicing leave-no-trace. 



Those rangers aside though, there's no excuse for the private groups that felt it was ok to remove artifacts, deface property, or violate the rules in general. If the rangers made contact with those groups, then they shouldn't be allowed to get Deso permits in the future. 



That's my .02


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## okieboater (Oct 19, 2004)

I have been blessed to run Deso Gray three times. Every time we had great camps on BLM land. Bottom line, if the Ute Tribe does not want probably good income from non Tribal members from camp / hike fees - let them find income some where else. On the other hand actions as described above by Ute Tribal Police should get them a fine and time in jail - if Ute Tribal Elders were informed, my bet is they would discipline bad actors. Same for non tribal members doing similar things on either side of the river. 

My opinion, wild land areas especially in the climate in the South West take decades if ever to recover from trash or messing with tree growth or even disturbing the soil. If people who get to float these SW Rivers do not take care of the land, floating them is going to get more difficult with more rules.

I recently enjoyed a late season float on The Green thru Canyon lands. We camped on sand bars. Very comfortable for us and my guess is our tracks will get washed away by spring flows.


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## 2tomcat2 (May 27, 2012)

As said above, the land must be taken care of. Overuse of river right now that left is closed? LNT principles are essential now, more than ever.


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## jbolson (Apr 6, 2005)

It's quite possible that the Utes decided they could make more money by arresting trespassers on their land.


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## Beaver Whisperer (Sep 26, 2011)

Once the rafting season starts again, the Ute tribe may change their minds and issue camping permits. I've seen this several times before.


Bottom line is do not disrespect their lands, not matter what.


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## Electric-Mayhem (Jan 19, 2004)

2tomcat2 said:


> As said above, the land must be taken care of. Overuse of river right now that left is closed? LNT principles are essential now, more than ever.


I've been down Deso a bunch of times and I've never once stayed at a camp on the left side of the river. I think that is pretty typical of most trips so the right side camps get most of the use and seem to hold up fine. Most people don't wanna pay extra and go through the trouble of getting the Ute Permit.

I haven't made it down Deso in the last few years (too many other awesome trips to go on that don't have bugs and flatwater) so maybe that has changed. I'm not too worried about the few extra groups that would have used the left side camps once or twice during their trip.

At least for me...this makes basically no difference to any trip down there I would go on. Honestly, it seems the tribe does way more damage to the river corridor then river users with all the cattle grazing that goes on over there. Did a layover at a camp that I can't remember the name and while we were there a heard of cattle was literally tearing up the area across the river. Big dust clouds and lots of noise.

They are entitled to use the land as they want, but its kind of hypocritical to be have a problem with river runners when I see that kinda stuff going on over there.


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## zercon (Aug 30, 2006)

*Deso*

The commercials liked the left side (log cabin, etc) Any additional pressure on the right is going to be felt in the high water months. As someone pointed out they tend to change their minds about the regulations. I hope they change their minds again. I usually pay the Ute fee just so I can hike.


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## lmyers (Jun 10, 2008)

Both times I have been down I purchased the Ute permit and thought it was totally worth it. In my opinion two of the best camps in the canyon are on river left. Below Chandler Falls and Rattlesnake....


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## Electric-Mayhem (Jan 19, 2004)

Rattlesnake isn't on Ute territory so that is a non issue (the border of the reservation moves away from the river near Coal Creek). Deso was my first ever multi-day trip and I remember staying there with a huge beach that had a small river channel on the back side of it that you could swim in, but the last time I stayed there the beach was tiny and the Tamarisk had taken over a lot of the bench above what was left of the beach (and no river channel). Hopefully the beach came back...its been a few years so that is entirely possible. Cool camp and worth staying at. On my last trip down, we stayed at Rabbit Valley as the last camp I think...also a nice small camp with a big Cottonwood at the top of the beach for shade.

Haven't stayed at Chandler Falls but I'm sure its a nice camp. Plenty of nice camps on River Right though too. I remember liking Jack Creek and Lion Hollow camps. For a 3 person trip, we did a layover at a tiny sand bar just before Joe Hutch Rapid (the hard one...never understood why there were two rapids with the same name).

I'm sure there are attractions over there...but I've never felt like I missed out all that much by not going on Ute territory.


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## 2tomcat2 (May 27, 2012)

Actually 2 different names, Joe Hutch Creek rapid and Joe Hutch Canyon rapid.
Left side has many historic sites, inscriptions, awesome hikes and camps...I'm a history buff, so these places are interesting to me, glad I was lucky enough to visit them the past 20+ years, but sad that they may not be for others in the future.


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## okieboater (Oct 19, 2004)

'
we stayed river left Deso Gray at the bottom of rattlesnake sept of 2018.

Excellent camp. We got there mid after noon and it is a very nice camp. No shade on the beach but most of our rafts had tops to keep the sun at bay. We visited under the shade and finished off our remaining refreshments as this was our last river camp. Swimming off the beach was easy. salt cedar thick and gnarly right down to the sand.


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## 2tomcat2 (May 27, 2012)

Sounds like Poverty camp? Have enjoyed staying there as well.
Wondering if scouting will also not be allowed from river left...sent an email to BLM Price office to inquire.
Although this section of the Green is considered "beginner" by most, every water level; read and run is just not possible for some, Steer Ridge comes to mind.


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## Riverwild (Jun 19, 2015)

2tomcat2 said:


> Sounds like Poverty camp? Have enjoyed staying there as well.
> Wondering if scouting will also not be allowed from river left...sent an email to BLM Price office to inquire.
> Although this section of the Green is considered "beginner" by most, every water level; read and run is just not possible for some, Steer Ridge comes to mind.


My guess is no you can't set foot on their land. But every "major" rapid in Deso has the main scout on the right side. If you were to scout Steer Ridge on the left you'd barely be able to see it as the rapid is against the far right side wall.


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## 2tomcat2 (May 27, 2012)

It's true you cannot see "Surprise Rapid" from the scout on the left (have never scouted from the right!); it's a fairly long walk to over look parts 1 & 2, but a good vantage point to see far down river, as well as the often numerous logs and rocks at the top on river right.


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## caverdan (Aug 27, 2004)

Riverwild said:


> But every "major" rapid in Deso has the main scout on the right side. If you were to scout Steer Ridge on the left you'd barely be able to see it as the rapid is against the far right side wall.


I think you mean the run is on the "left" side of the river, up against the far left side wall. It's an easy read and run if you line up on the correct side of the river. The log jam at the top always gives it away.  I agree the river scouts are all on the right where the river passes through on their land. 

All the good camp sites are on the right side too. I always buy a permit, but I use it for hiking up to the moon shiners cabin and that's about it. It does make for a good back up plan. I've stayed at log cabin, but not by my choice. There is a reason that camp is nothing but sand. It's only good if the wind doesn't blow.


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## Riverwild (Jun 19, 2015)

caverdan said:


> I think you mean the run is on the "left" side of the river, up against the far left side wall. It's an easy read and run if you line up on the correct side of the river. The log jam at the top always gives it away.  I agree the river scouts are all on the right where the river passes through on their land.


Yeah your right I was thinking of Three Fords when I wrote that before. But I don't think I've ever thought of Steer as a real rapid to consider.


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## 2tomcat2 (May 27, 2012)

Response from BLM regarding scouting access:


"Please contact the tribe directly regarding access to and activity on river left."


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## FishingAddict (May 29, 2015)

This is what the Tribal proclamation says and here is the link:
https://www.utetribe.com/images/FishWildlife/permits/2018FishingProc.pdf

j. Desolation Canyon Camping: Permits may be obtained entitling the permit holder(s) and the group to camp at designated
camping sites, within Designated Angling/Recreation Areas on Tribal Trust Lands. Permit allows an access buffer of 75 feet
from the water’s edge. No hiking, sightseeing, or exploring beyond the buffer access. All permits must be used in
conjunction with BLM Special Recreation Permits. All BLM Recreation Special Permit stipulations shall apply. Contact
BLM at (435) 636-3622, or at their web site www.blm.gov/utah/price/riverinf.htm for more information.
2. Permit Fees: 2018 Non-member Tribal camping permit fees shall be:
a. Family Camping Family ............................................................... $20.00
b. Group Camping: Group of 1 to 10 persons .................................. $25.00
Group of 11 to 15 persons ............................... $30.00
Group of 16 to 20 persons ............................... $40.00
Group of 21 to 30 persons ............................... $50.00
Group of 31 or more persons ........................... $60.00
c. Desolation Camping: Group .............................................................. $150.00
d. Bottle Hollow Reservoir RV Park* ........................................................... $25.00
*Must Contact Ute Tribe Fish and Wildlife Department – Parks Office at (435) 725-4815 to purchase permit.


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## Riverwild (Jun 19, 2015)

$150 to camp on the Ute side in Deso. Thats Crazy! Nobody is going to pay that as it's just not worth it, plenty of good camps on the right side.


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## mikepart (Jul 7, 2009)

Riverwild said:


> $150 to camp on the Ute side in Deso. Thats Crazy! Nobody is going to pay that as it's just not worth it, plenty of good camps on the right side.



For a group of 10, that's 15 per person. A little steep, but not really that bad. What is crazy is paying rec.gov every year for lotteries that I never win.


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