# "Sport" sweep - Goes where I point it - MFS 1.54 ft



## cnalder (Jul 7, 2016)

So how were rapids like Sulphur, the chutes, and powerhouse? Were you fully loaded or empty. Very interested. Title says 1.54’ but looks higher. 

I see that was powerhouse in video but was video at 2’?


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## BenSlaughter (Jun 16, 2017)

That's slick! Front sweep tied up, just steering with the rear. Frees up a guy's drinking arm! 
I think I need one...I want a round boat, though. We can compare performance!

How wide is that rig?
Do you trailer it inflated??


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## carvedog (May 11, 2005)

I saw a discussion about cats vs round boats for low water....did I miss the sweep boat post? The Firestone (20 footer) round boat that I ran some was a sports car for a sweep boat anyway. Rarely used the front oar...for me the discussion was always about tube size and how much weight per foot of boat.


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## rivh2o (Jan 17, 2013)

Pretty Sweep!


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## Pine (Aug 15, 2017)

Wadeinthewater said:


> There was a discussion on another thread about round boat vs cat designs for a sweep boat. I think the long parallel tubes allow a cat to track significantly better. My boat is built on 20' x 30" tubes. Below is some video from a recent MFS trip.


Is this a commercial boat or private?


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## missiongravity (Jun 10, 2007)

Superb handling skills. Serious question...have yall ever just considered taking less crap on the river with ya? Why such a huge ass boat unless you are an outfitter?


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## yesimapirate (Oct 18, 2010)

Wadeinthewater, would you be willing to share what your frame looks like? I obviously see part of in the video, but can't picture what the entire frame/bay setup would look like for sweeps.

And I will give my answer to the huge ass boat question. If I bring small boat, I can't bring all the group gear that I have without feeling REALLY overloaded. Therefore I bring my big lady(not the wife). I have a 15'x29.5" JPW Royal Flush with an AAA frame that I added two extra bays to for a total of 7 bays.


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## cnalder (Jul 7, 2016)

missiongravity said:


> Superb handling skills. Serious question...have yall ever just considered taking less crap on the river with ya? Why such a huge ass boat unless you are an outfitter?


I just floated the MF for the 7th time only this time in self support packrafts. We had so much time to enjoy the river, and didn’t miss all the extra comfort gear. It was the best out of our 7 trips.


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## nolichuck (Mar 11, 2010)

My favorite MFS trips were self-support in a canoe. Bad knees have caused me to go to a cat boat. Believe it or not, it was easier in a canoe because you can change directions quickly and there are sneaks that are not available to bigger boats.


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## Dangerfield (May 28, 2021)

Nice run Wadeinthewater. Look's to be a great low/high water multi purpose craft.


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## Wadeinthewater (Mar 22, 2009)

cnalder said:


> So how were rapids like Sulphur, the chutes, and powerhouse? Were you fully loaded or empty. Very interested. Title says 1.54’ but looks higher.
> I see that was powerhouse in video but was video at 2’?


Sulphur was good until I got stuck about 1/2 way down. Ran left, made the cut out to the right even beyond the boulder to the right of the log on the rock, then stuck. Got out, pushed, down the river.

No video of Powerhouse but it wasn't that much different than the one you looked at from two years ago at 2 ft.

The Chutes wasn't pretty but I made it without major mishap. I should have gone left instead of trying to straddle that big rock.






I had most of the group gear but my boat was a relatively light compared to a typical load. The sign at Boundary said 1.54 ft when we launched on 08/05.



BenSlaughter said:


> How wide is that rig?
> Do you trailer it inflated??


43 inches between the tubes and 8 1/2 feet wide overall. Touching both sides at Cove. Had to toothpaste through.

I trailer it inflated only short distances like to the McKenzie from Eugene or Cache to Boundary for back-to-back. I am not sure I could afford the fuel to trailer it inflated from Eugene to Idaho. The boat doesn't take that long to rig.











carvedog said:


> I saw a discussion about cats vs round boats for low water....did I miss the sweep boat post? The Firestone (20 footer) round boat that I ran some was a sports car for a sweep boat anyway. Rarely used the front oar...for me the discussion was always about tube size and how much weight per foot of boat.


Electric-Mayhem Post #9 in this thread.








Best boat type for low water (<1.75’) MFS


Lots of talk about low flows but I’d like to hear which boat type is best for low flow conditions? Cat, raft, puma, length assuming there will be one passenger and no gear flown in. Thoughts?




www.mountainbuzz.com







Pine said:


> Is this a commercial boat or private?


Private. I've been using it on the MFS since 2008.



missiongravity said:


> Serious question...have yall ever just considered taking less crap on the river with ya? Why such a huge ass boat unless you are an outfitter?


Good point. On this trip I had most of the group gear for 10 people which allowed the MFS noobs to run very light. I often support IKers and other smaller boats on the MFS. But, I also have an old school Puma that I use on trips like a low water Selway or South Fork Owyhee and a Lynx 1 that I use on for "boatpacking" on low water Illinois and other small stream trips. Obviously I don't carry as much crap in those boats.



yesimapirate said:


> Wadeinthewater, would you be willing to share what your frame looks like? I obviously see part of in the video, but can't picture what the entire frame/bay setup would look like for sweeps.


One piece welded aluminum. 8 ft front bay and 4 ft rear bay. Pins and clips for the sweeps. Oarlocks for rowing into headwind or rowing the Grand Canyon.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

That's a really really cool rig, @Wadeinthewater. Appreciate the vid, too. Looks like a fun challenge.


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## raymo (Aug 10, 2008)

Wadeinthewater, the boat is nice but looks like your abilities to read the river and water are excellent. Nice video too. Thank you.


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## yojimbo (Oct 12, 2003)

I'm gonna rig my Wolverine as a sweep boat!


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## FatmanZ (Sep 15, 2004)

That's a neat frame and I like the versatility where you can swap to traditional oar right setup based on the need.


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## Wadeinthewater (Mar 22, 2009)

FatmanZ said:


> That's a neat frame and I like the versatility where you can swap to traditional oar right setup based on the need.


🤣 Oar rights? BLASPHEMY! Straight open oar locks all the way! But we can debate that for the umpteenth time on another thread. 🤣

PS - Thanks for selling me those pins and clips many years ago.


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## Andy H. (Oct 13, 2003)

I see the advantage of being able to have two oars in the water when sliding along rock walls, and the cat being able to straddle rocks.

However, maybe I'm missing something because the idea of having a downstream oar in the water as a required as part of your setup, on a shallow, rocky river, just seems like begging for broken ribs. Is there something about the sweep boat setup that prevents the possibility of hitting a rock with the oar and having said oar slammed into your abdomen? Or is reading where the rocks are to avoid this just part of the requisite skill of running a sweep boat? There were lots of moments when the oarsman was in line with that downstream oar and it seems like it'd be pretty dicey if the water were cloudy.


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## FatmanZ (Sep 15, 2004)

FatmanZ said:


> That's a neat frame and I like the versatility where you can swap to traditional oar right setup based on the need.


I should have stated that as "swap to a traditional oar setup" based on the oar towers on the located on the R & L side of the frame.


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## Hoomalimali (Aug 19, 2021)

Beautiful, you make it look easy ~ thanks for sharing.


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## Montana Cat 65 (Jul 31, 2013)

How is the traction on the (what looks like) diamond plate floor? Any trouble holding your position in steeper, splashier runs?


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

Andy H. said:


> I see the advantage of being able to have two oars in the water when sliding along rock walls, and the cat being able to straddle rocks.
> 
> However, maybe I'm missing something because the idea of having a downstream oar in the water as a required as part of your setup, on a shallow, rocky river, just seems like begging for broken ribs. Is there something about the sweep boat setup that prevents the possibility of hitting a rock with the oar and having said oar slammed into your abdomen? Or is reading where the rocks are to avoid this just part of the requisite skill of running a sweep boat? There were lots of moments when the oarsman was in line with that downstream oar and it seems like it'd be pretty dicey if the water were cloudy.


It's an Idaho thing. The blades on a sweep oar are angled so a rock strike _should_ kick the oar blade up and not into the oarsman.
But it also means you'd better pay more attention than you might otherwise in a normal raft configuration. (I find I don't have any time to drink beer on the river while in a dory for the same reason)


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## Endopotential (May 14, 2019)

Dave here. Thing of beauty, watching you pilot that beast Sunshine! 

I was lucky enough to accompany him on the MFS last summer. Once you have someone in the group in command of a supply battleship like that sweep boat, there's no going back. I'll be spoiled for life.


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## Wadeinthewater (Mar 22, 2009)

Montana Cat 65 said:


> How is the traction on the (what looks like) diamond plate floor? Any trouble holding your position in steeper, splashier runs?


Yes, a full diamond plate floor. It is not slippery at all. Traction may be enhance by abrasion from sand and gravel. I have anti-slip tape on my main dry box and front deck which are smooth aluminum. The boat is a very placid ride, even in bigger water. I can't tell you how many miles I have gone with forgetting to strap down the kitchen box on the side rail.




Andy H. said:


> However, maybe I'm missing something because the idea of having a downstream oar in the water as a required as part of your setup, on a shallow, rocky river, just seems like begging for broken ribs. Is there something about the sweep boat setup that prevents the possibility of hitting a rock with the oar and having said oar slammed into your abdomen? Or is reading where the rocks are to avoid this just part of the requisite skill of running a sweep boat? There were lots of moments when the oarsman was in line with that downstream oar and it seems like it'd be pretty dicey if the water were cloudy.


You bring up a good point about the front sweep. Being a self-taught sweep boater gave me plenty of opportunities to do it wrong. Yes I got punched in the ribs. As MT4Runner said "The blades on a sweep oar are angled so a rock strike _should_ kick the oar blade up and not into the oarsman." Mine is at an angle like this in the water. But that doesn't always work so I also use a strap to keep the sweep from killing me when I mess up. And yes, turbid water is a bitch.


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## Junk Show Tours (Mar 11, 2008)

Is that oar tower welded into your frame? Any reason you couldn't use a standard detachable oar tower for a sweep boat setup?


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## Wadeinthewater (Mar 22, 2009)

Junk Show Tours said:


> Is that oar tower welded into your frame? Any reason you couldn't use a standard detachable oar tower for a sweep boat setup?


Yes it is welded. I can't think of a reason you couldn't use a standard detachable oar tower.


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## carvedog (May 11, 2005)

Andy H. said:


> I see the advantage of being able to have two oars in the water when sliding along rock walls, and the cat being able to straddle rocks.
> 
> However, maybe I'm missing something because the idea of having a downstream oar in the water as a required as part of your setup, on a shallow, rocky river, just seems like begging for broken ribs. Is there something about the sweep boat setup that prevents the possibility of hitting a rock with the oar and having said oar slammed into your abdomen? Or is reading where the rocks are to avoid this just part of the requisite skill of running a sweep boat? There were lots of moments when the oarsman was in line with that downstream oar and it seems like it'd be pretty dicey if the water were cloudy.


Almost all of the steering can be done from the rear sweep. His front is loosely tied down in all of this I think. One of the first things you learn is how to do a flat hand down to the decking with the front sweep. It can be a real knuckle buster if you don't.


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## carvedog (May 11, 2005)

The sweep arms I ran were bent so your hand with normal rowing position was mid chest, to get the sweep blade barely out of the water it was at your waist or a bit lower. And to have it be a foot or so out of the water the handle hit the deck. So his geometry and leverage is a little different than I ran. Similar moves - jacking the rear end around whatever rock you don't want to get stuck on. Sweet lines dude. Watching the vids again the sweeps I ran had much longer arms and thus bigger movements up at the business end. You really had to kind of dance around, not stay in one spot. 
Dropped the front sweep arm once and my previously beautiful day went to shit in a hurry. Blade caught an eddy, the boat did a u turn and I smashed into the bank in about 2 seconds. I was just happy I didn't break the arm or blade off.


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## carvedog (May 11, 2005)

And in Pistol it is abrupt enough that have to get your back sweep out of the water or the ledge will smash it out of your hand.


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## zcollier (Jan 1, 2004)

Here's our 22' round boat at The Chutes just before Boundary closed


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## Wadeinthewater (Mar 22, 2009)

zcollier said:


> Here's our 22' round boat at The Chutes just before Boundary closed


 What a difference 2 ft and 1700 lbs makes. Freightliner vs Ferrari. How wide is your sweep?


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## zcollier (Jan 1, 2004)

Wadeinthewater said:


> What a difference 2 ft and 1700 lbs makes. Freightliner vs Ferrari. How wide is your sweep?


Our sweep is 22 feet long and 8.5 feet wide.


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