# SPOT vs. Sat phone



## wasatchbill (Apr 9, 2007)

Endless bad reviews about SPOT on REI.com
SPOT II Satellite GPS Messenger - Special Edition Holiday Kit at REI.com
"The SPOT II has failed and the SPOT folks are difficult to work with. Bad attitudes to be polite. Don't buy SPOT, they just aren't worth it." 
Also a $100 annual fee, they break, don't work, etc. 

This Coast Guard guy says to get a 406MHz PLB:
SPOT Personal Tracker at REI.com

Here is a good article for paddlers. Seems a bit dated; the REI prices are lower now. 
Review Personal Locator Beacons paddlers wilderness survival rescue PLB | Canoe & Kayak Magazine
Here is what REI.com sells right now for 406MHz PLBs. They are $250 to $500. 
Personal Locator Beacons at REI.com

Here is a very interesting article on wildsnow.com called: The Problem With PLBs, ACR, Spot Messenger, Etc. Its about false alarms. 
The Problem With PLBs, ACR, Spot Messenger, Etc. - The Backcountry Skiing Blog

Sat phones look like they are a couple thousand$$$, plus expensive service plans.

Some of the PLBs have a GPS chip, but it sounds like they can't be used as a GPS; its only for their homing signal. I am not sure what other GPS unit functionality may be out there along these lines. 

I would prefer a device that was basically more like cell phone coverage (or text). Too bad SPOT does not sound like a reliable or reputable company, from the reviews. 
The $250 McMurdo unit REI stocks has some good reviews.


----------



## rockinRio (Jul 3, 2006)

My wife's work uses the SPOT for their 40-day courses in the Wyo Wind Rivers Range. They also carry Sat phones. Here is my upshot.

They have had trouble getting a signal with the Sat phones at times. But once they find a good spot communication is fair. Usually use Sat phones for situation evaluation, or coordinating a non-life-threating evac. 

The SPOT sends signals everyday without much of a problem, and I haven't heard any complaints from instructors or course coordinators.

While not every course carries a Sat phone, each one does carry a SPOT.

They've never had to use the SPOT for emergency evac. so I can't say how that fairs.


----------



## okieboater (Oct 19, 2004)

No experience with SPOT, but experience with Sat Phones.

Sat phones are great for letting folks know that you may not get out the day you planned or need some help getting off earlier. Have been on trips where the Sat phone made bad situations manageable without calling out the authorities.

We have rented Sat phones for trips and will continue to do that until prices drop which they should do fairly soon.

I have a friend with a SPOT and she and her folks enjoy it as it plots where she is on the Internet. Not aware of any emergency use of her SPOT. My take is the SPOT system is a great idea, needs more time in the field to get all the bugs out, but the idea is great.

Bottom line, given a choice I would take a Sat phone, because you can use it in so many ways even to get scores of the big game back home. SPOT would help in situations where you need the rescue chopper for sure, but reading various message boards, SPOT users have called out the rescue teams by mistake many times. Kind of like all the home alarms going off and at least in my town, police do not race to the home alarm and some are charging if no true breakin etc.


----------



## brandob9 (Jun 13, 2010)

I have one of the first gen SPOTs, and I like it. It has accurately reported the coords everytime I've hit the button. The trick is that it needs a clear view and about five minutes to get the info off. 

I can't speak to the 911 button's effectiveness personally, but I know someone who had to use it, and I'm happy they did. 

Coast Guard rescues rafters in Aniakchak National Monument | Coast Guard News


----------



## Randaddy (Jun 8, 2007)

I have used the SPOT all over the west, from Ladore to Grand Canyon and many other places deep in the earth. Of the HUNDREDS of check-in/OK signals I've sent, I'm fairly certain that all of them were received. I even imported them into Google Earth after a long trip and took a virtual tour. It's pretty cool.

Rangers and SAR people would prefer you have a satellite phone so they can get more information from you. I'm kind of frustrated with the Grand Canyon rangers right now, because I was told in 2009 that "SPOTs work great! Every time one has been used the evacuation has been successful and the GEOS insurance has been reliable for reimbursing evacuation and SAR fees." This year the rangers told our trip leader that SPOT devices are inadequate and that they highly recommend Sat phones to give detailed information.

My opinion is that they obviously want you to be able to communicate better, but they aren't the ones paying for it. If your "911" and "help" features are prepared with adequate information (i.e. I know where the nearest downstream landing zone is, I know how to prepare a landing zone, we have X medical experience, this is why we will push this button, etc.) they can get adequate info with your inexpensive SPOT device. 

It's probably frustrating when any SAR team gets a generic emergency message. Just be detailed in your information and have a competent emergency contact.


----------



## gbmaz (Oct 7, 2007)

I have been trying to figure out the same choice for myself. Both for rafting trips and for solo motorcycle trips. I have read many good and bad things on the SPOT. No conclusion yet on my part.

This thread from the ADVrider motorcycle websiite has some interesting info from someone who actually works at the company that makes the SPOT. He explains a number of technical issues pretty well. The info is buried in the 155 pages of posts, but is worth looking for.

The Great Big SPOT Thread - ADVrider

(Note that this is a huge multi year thread that started in 2007, but has had regular contributions and questions. If you think Buzz folks can go on and on about gear, you should see some of the 3000+ page threads on certain motorcycle models.)


----------



## Ole Rivers (Jul 7, 2005)

Google and check out Lightsquared at What We Do - LightSquared and maybe do a Google Alert to follow its progress.

It's a new company that will offer combined 4g LTE broadband wireless and satellite services via retail outlets such as, possibly, Walmart, Target, and any company that wants to retail it at competitive prices to, say, Verizon, etc. rather than Lightsquared retailing it. Lightsquared will only wholesale the service and not compete with the retailer, according to their model.

Denver is one of the first markets to get it, if it gets through all the hoops, by 2012 and maybe as early as 2011.

The satellite was launched November, 2010 and, after a glitch that prevented the antenna to totally open, is now ready to go and just needs to go through the process and get more funding. Still a tall order to make it but this looks like it could be the answer for remote communications.


----------



## ~Bank (Jul 31, 2010)

*PLB = personal locater beacon*

I have an ACR 406mhz PLB with a 121.5mhz honing signal waterproof beacon. You can customize your distress signal. If I activate mine it sends the msg "I am not lost, I am seriously injured". I haven't had to use it. I hope it will work if I need it. Anybody have any experience? Mine has no monthly fees and can not send updates that I am ok. It retails for $650 I found it new for $278 on amazon...


----------



## wasatchbill (Apr 9, 2007)

Hi Brian, 
Thats exactly the kind of unit the Coast Guard guy recommended here:
SPOT Personal Tracker at REI.com
I see that I need to clarify my previous post: go to that link, then click on Reviews. The first one is by "SAR Responder"; read that. Here is an excerpt:

"Save your money for a real 406MHz beacon! You'll spend just as much once you add the cost of the annual subscriptions and extra services!

As someone with Coast Guard Search and Rescue experience who is very familiar with SPOT, (also an AT and PCT alum) I wanted to add my review from the perspective of someone who has responded to distress beacons. I am a fan of any device that enhances safety, and I first learned about SPOT with an open mind. 

However, I have since found many reasons to dissuade mariners and others from using the device. I can't stress strongly enough the need to go with a 406 MHz beacon, such as an EPIRB / ELT / or PLB as the distress-alerting device of choice. As a reference, I'll point to SPOT's own web site.

Unfortunately, it is full of half-truths and other misleading information." Go to that link and read the rest. 
Yes, SPOT can work, they have a fancy website that tracks where you are, and there are one or two glowing reviews from people whose lives were saved. But an 406MHz beacon would have saved those peoples lives just as well, with a more reliable satellite system (the SPOT system has gone down in the past), no annual fees, etc, etc. 

At the SPOT II link in my first post, click on Reviews again. 
SPOT II Satellite GPS Messenger - Special Edition Holiday Kit at REI.com > Reviews
Here is an excerpt from one of the reviews:
"The device is small and seems well manufactured. The device is easy to use albeit its very limited in function.

The shocker comes when one is about to activate it.
This is a unique device and hence escapes the radar that regulates fair consumer polices regarding cell phones. 
The hidden policies of Spot is a bit of a shocker considering they are illegal if it applied to cell phones. 

For one thing, to activate the unit, one "MUST" agree to auto renewal, which gives Spot the right to charge the credit card about a month before it the subscription expires. 

Second, Spot has the right to change prices at will and NOT inform the customer about the change in price. 

Third, if the customer wants to cancel auto renewal, he must also cancel the rest of the year in which he had already paid. Spot claims that the customer can request a refund for the months he did not use. I have a feeling this process is filled with bureaucracy. 

Fourth, the customer has to request that the auto renewal be canceled 45 days before the end of the subscription period."

This gives you an indication of what this company is like. Read the other reviews if you are still thinking about getting a SPOT.


----------



## Randaddy (Jun 8, 2007)

To add to wasatchbill's comments, the auto-renewal is a pain in the ass. I just made sure to pay with a card that was going to expire during the year. They kept my device active and emailed me a month in advance to let me know my card was no good. No heads up before the charge attempt though... An annual service should have an option to automatically pay, not a requirement!

Also, if you call their customer service you'll hold for hours and get someone not in the US. They don't send mail in rebates in time, and seem to be pretty small-time for having such global rescue abilities.

However, they work. "911" doesn't call customer service in India, it calls 911. "Help" doesn't charge your credit card, it notifies your friends by SMS and email, that you need help. And the new device allows you to send detailed SMS messages from the field.

SPOTS are cool. I just wish different people were running the company.


----------



## raymo (Aug 10, 2008)

I made a similar post awhile back and purchased a older Spot device on clearance for 89$.(never used in the field yet). The 406 mhz devices is faster and more accurate ( 2 sec. to 3 sec. to get notice) and (search area 3 mi. to 5 mi.). I think the newer satellite is stationary (406 mhz) and not orbiting which makes a big difference. The older orbiting satellites connect time depends on when it is in position to detect your device.( sat. phone or pld.)and search area of 20 mi.. to 30 mi.). Plus search aircraft equipment is set-up for the newer equipment and can track straight to the device. I have used this new technology under different applications in the past and asked in ground school how it knows and the answer was PFM (purer fucking magic ). No sooner that you purchase one, a newer and faster one will come out the next day.


----------



## westereh (Jun 29, 2010)

They both have their place. When I do solo hikes/backpacking I carry a spot. Rafting where weight is not as much of an issue I carry a sat phone. Both have issues in canyons.

The nice thing about the sat phone is you know you have made contact w/ help (on less thing to be FREAKING OUT about when things have gone pear shaped) and provide updates ect. W/ the spot you just have to assume the signal got thru. 

W/ the spot while hiking thru forests the tracking signals where not getting thru and the antenna is directional, that is while it was attached vertically on the site of my back pack fewer of the tracking signals were making it out, once I laid it flat on top of my pack it worked like a charm.


----------



## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

gbmaz said:


> I have been trying to figure out the same choice for myself. Both for rafting trips and for solo motorcycle trips. I have read many good and bad things on the SPOT. No conclusion yet on my part.
> 
> This thread from the ADVrider motorcycle websiite has some interesting info from someone who actually works at the company that makes the SPOT. He explains a number of technical issues pretty well. The info is buried in the 155 pages of posts, but is worth looking for.
> 
> ...


NO kidding, my husband is an ADV junkie. He told me of a post a while back, maybe a year ago, where a woman was riding solo somewhere east of Riggins ID and wrecked. She was pinned under her bike and something was broken. A backcountry FS road, or maybe even just a trail, and she kept her SPOT on her body. Hit the emergency button, ended up getting rescued. They way he told me the story it was expected she wouldn't have gotten rescued without it. Maybe that story is in the thread you posted. As you say, those motorheads are yakkers (talk talk talk)! The used gear site is amazing, there's tons of gear useful for boating available at 1/4 of retail. 

Where I'm going with this, is she wouldn't have been able to get a sat call out, and we're probably going to get a SPOT (or similar, probably a PLB) soon for both boating and ADVing. Sat phones are nice if you expect to need to communicate (like a Dr I know who has to call in every day, or if you have plane shuttles or such) but other than that I would not buy one but would probably rent on extremely remote trips (AK or int'l).


----------



## oarboatman (Jul 20, 2006)

*Sat Phone*

If you decide to get a sat phone, check out www.[B]outfittersatellite.com[/B]. They have a huge rental program and sell used phones for half the cost of a new one.


----------



## Woodcock (Jan 4, 2011)

I always rent a satellite phone from Mobal (Iridium Satellite Phone). Every time I check the rental costs, they always come out as the best deal. 

I'm wary of trying the spot because if something goes wrong, I'd like to be able to speak to someone rather than relying on the spot to work correctly.

Also, a week's rental works out less than the $100 annual fee for spot - so it's a bit of a no brainer for me.

Woodie


----------



## tallboy (Apr 20, 2006)

Smartphone to SPOT pairing app

Just found this, not sure all the details on pricing, but it seems like a real possibility that a spot tracker will soon be incorporated into the phone. But in the meantime, especially with all the new verizon iphone junkies...check this out

YouTube - SPOT Connect Demo


----------



## Ole Rivers (Jul 7, 2005)

*Coming to Denver 2011*

This article says Lightsquared satellite/terrestrial cell coverage is coming to Denver in 2011...

Falcone’s LightSquared Has Accords With Five Customers - Businessweek


----------



## Blackshire (Feb 16, 2010)

*AT&T has a sattelight/cell phone*

TerreStar Genus is a dual-mode smartphone that uses AT&T's cellular service by default but kicks in with satellite reception as a backup in remote areas. The satellite service offers the standard mobile phone trio of voice, data, and messaging, so it can function as an overall smartphone.

Read more: AT&T launches satellite phone | Wireless - CNET News

This is a good sign, eventually prices will come way down. The AT&T service requires a 25$ a month fee plus 65 cents a minute while in sattelight mode....

Not bad though...


----------

