# Westwater...NOW



## gjbugtosser (Apr 12, 2011)

By "..a couple of guys that can paddle out front if needed", I assume you mean kayakers? If so, YES, bring them! The biggest I've run WW is at 24k. For the most part, the usual big rapids will be washed out, but thats a lot of water in a narrow canyon (understatement of the day : ) ). I would have at least 1 other raft and a few kayakers. Last year I flipped on funnel falls at 13k in a 16' self-bailer. It really humbled me, and I was especially grateful for the other 2 rafts and 3 kayaks in our group that got all 5 of us scooped up before skull. From what I heard from a reliable source (that knows people that were in the group), the WW fatality last week was from 2 rafts getting jammed up at skull and couldn't maneuver through the laterals, and got flipped. They were experienced rafters. Very tragic and sad. Not trying to freak you out, just be prepared, and don't go in with the attitude that you can run it in your sleep.


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## jalthage (May 11, 2006)

10-4,

Bad choice of wording "run it in my sleep" just have heard everything from "piece of cake" to "sell your permit!"..
Just looking for a well rounded answer.
Appreciate the advice.


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## gjbugtosser (Apr 12, 2011)

I hear you. In general, "the terrible teens", when flows are between 12k to 19k or so, is when the rapids are the biggest. At this level, I've been told there are laterals coming from the left as you are approaching skull, so obviously turn into them. When I ran it 2 years ago at 24k, I got spun right before skull because I wasn't prepared for them, but the wave train shot me off to the left, so I didn't get pushed into the wall. Be on river-left approaching skull. I've only run WW twice, so these 2 replies are the extent of my WW experience. I'm sure some others will chime in before you go. Have fun.


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## jeffsssmith (Mar 31, 2007)

Running it at that level isn''t that hard but having safety, back-up, clean-up for flips or swimmers is hard but essential. A nervous passenger would be a dangerous swimmer and multiple boats would increase your chances for quick rescues. If you are asking this question you may not be ready.


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## yesimapirate (Oct 18, 2010)

We're running it this Sat. I'll let you know how it goes.


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## Rainen (Feb 3, 2010)

yesimapirate said:


> We're running it this Sat. I'll let you know how it goes.


Very interested in your trip report. I have permit for 7/16 and we are still debating if we will be running it.


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## cataraftbetty (Sep 27, 2010)

At 28000 the left lateral in Skull and the Rock of Shock are your biggest issues. There is a long straightaway above Skull and you know you're approaching when a wall appears downstream where the river should be, because the river is going left at the Rock of Shock. The conventional run is* not* to start river left, but instead, come down the straight away with your nose to the right wall, or as close as you can get with the eddy lines boiling, As you approach the lip, you turn to a 45 degree downstream ferry angle and motor/aim for the soft spot in the left lateral. At 28 K, the soft spot is just left of the apex of the V.

If you get in a hurry and hit the wrong spot in the lateral, the lateral will stop you or flip you, or you will lose momentum and not be able to get out of the wave train. The wave train plows into the Rock of Shock, which is a flipping spot. If you break through the lateral upright, you continue pulling left and pivoting until you are pointing downstream. There is an eddy on the left where you can watch the rest of your group's run. Boats that flip will be motoring downstream, so be prepared to chase.

The biggest sources of problems are people not being able to hold their spacing in the straight away above Skull. If you clusterbunch in there you won't have room to set up for your momentum move left. You don't want to be so far apart you can't help each other, or so close together that you don't leave each other room.


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## jalthage (May 11, 2006)

Found this, probably very similar to what it's runnung now, is almost a perfect visual of what cataraftbetty is saying

YouTube - ‪Paddlers go swimming - Skull Rapid, Westwater Canyon 31800cfs 6/25/11‬‏


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## saline (Jun 14, 2009)

We ran it a few days ago (sunday) and it was a blast. I have never rowed it at that level and it was a bit different for sure. Skull is your biggest concern. We usually hug the wall river right and then pull left as you enter the upper tongue to punch the left lateral and avoid the hole. It was VERY hard to even get close to the wall at this flow. I wasn't as close as I wanted to be but was still able to pull left and avoid the hole. 
You do not want to run the Skull river right, it will not end well.


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## nightingale (Aug 12, 2007)

I ran it this weekend and found that you just need to keep it T-ed up to the laterals and try to avoid the whirlpools as much as possible. Just keep it in the middle and react accordingly. I actually thought Skull was easy at this level. Biggest problem is making damn sure you have a bunch of spacing. It moves super fast and you can be on top of ech other before you know it! We finished the canyon in about 20 mins!! You couldn't get in the ROD if you tried. Probably be different now since i saw it was at 25000 last night.


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## powdahound76 (Jul 20, 2006)

Nice oar work Nightingale! How are things for you? That is a badass WW trip for sure. Just spent 4 days on Poudre with Anthony. Was very sweet. Lets go boatin sometime soon.
Elija


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## mazmoto (Sep 15, 2005)

Ran it today on a commercial trip. Big water blast great hits at Funnel and Skull was the highlight of the trip as our guide did an Airplane Turn before hitting the shinnzz and kept us off the Right Wall and the Room of Doom. Great hike to Little Delores Falls. Thanks Justin and Jason.


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## Curtiso (May 18, 2011)

I'm running WW next Friday and Saturday. How long is the trip from the put in to Cisco taking?


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## Paulkayaknenninger (Jun 3, 2007)

*flip at the 6 min mark*

http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNTWQErwKFo&feature=share&h=tAQC-_wHZ


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## steveskinner (Dec 19, 2006)

I have run WW 11 times this year, including last Monday. I agree that the big issue is lining up properly for a left pull at the right time and place at Skull. At higher water levels getting set up for Skull is difficult because if you are set up as usual the current can give your boat a half-spin and pull you farther left than you want to be at the entrance. Best to save your energy for this manuever, instead of fighting all the boils, roils and whirlpools upstream. I wrote a column about WW at high water recently in the Aspen Daily News...

Don


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## thaGoat (May 30, 2011)

Running WW on the 24... Just listening in to hear what other have to say...


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## Flohotter (Jun 22, 2010)

Did anybody watch that clip that Paul posted?


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## grandyoso (Aug 20, 2006)

Yep. Looked like a shit show to me...


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## kazak4x4 (May 25, 2009)

andru187 said:


> Did anybody watch that clip that Paul posted?


Wow was all I could say...


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## fredfish (Jun 27, 2005)

ditto


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## jalthage (May 11, 2006)

I shouldn't talk trash seeing as how I've NEVER done WW, but my favorite part of the video is where the kid in front is fumbling with the throw bag and if you pause it a couple of times you can see his paddle is tangled up i the rope!
Seriously though, thanks for all of the replies and advice, appreciate it!


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## Flohotter (Jun 22, 2010)

@ 9:49 when dude on flipped boat goes for another swim, this is when I decided i needed to turn on the volume to really appreciate this baby.


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## Rainen (Feb 3, 2010)

That is the best WW video I have seen in a long time. Full of win and awesome. So you and your boyfriend float off into the sunset with an oar and a paddle on a upside down raft and live happily ever after. 
Good stuff
Glad everyone made it out ok.


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## jalthage (May 11, 2006)

True, while entertaining, good to see you guys all made it out.


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## wildh2onriver (Jul 21, 2009)

Sundunce award for best short shit show documentary goes to: It's Better To Be Drunk Than Good! 

What's with the guy on the flipped boat with no pfd? How many beers less then 50 did each participant imbibe that day-- 5-10?

It's amazing to me that someone did not get hurt or worse, on that trip--at least from viewing that clip anyway...


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## David L (Feb 13, 2004)

jalthage said:


> I shouldn't talk trash seeing as how I've NEVER done WW, but my favorite part of the video is where the kid in front is fumbling with the throw bag and if you pause it a couple of times you can see his paddle is tangled up i the rope!
> Seriously though, thanks for all of the replies and advice, appreciate it!


And, somebody needs to tell that kid not to pull in people by their arms, but rather by the jacket.


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## Gremlin (Jun 24, 2010)

I saved the beer! (at 8:46)


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## kazak4x4 (May 25, 2009)

A great video for what NOT to do in WW and/or any class 4 river. The alcohol consumption before the rapids and all the brave screaming was priceless. Glad you all made it out ok. Thank goodness for that!


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## Gremlin (Jun 24, 2010)

Gremlin said:


> I saved the beer! (at 8:46)


That should be in quotes referring to the throw-rope-knot-tyer. Not "I" literally please!


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## willpaddle4food (Oct 11, 2003)

Ran it Saturday at about 30,000 and change. At that level skull hole was mostly gone and there was a large unfriendly left lateral which would flip boats; so there was no choice but to ride a big tongue of water straight at the rock of shock. At about ten feet away from the rock the left lateral had shrunk to about a foot high, and there was kind of a pillow or reflex wave coming off the rock of shock, and it was pretty easy to just let the back of your boat drift downstream river left and pull meaningfully away from the rock of shock.
ran it again monday and the same move worked at about 28,000, but I think it would have been easier to break the lateral.
All the other major rapids have washed out and the whole thing is probably easier than when in the teens.


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## SummitSurfer (Jun 23, 2010)

Anyone besides me catch the guy in the button up shirt, soaked as if he just came from the water and NO LIFE JACKET after the flip! Whats up with that???
Glad you guys are all safe but you dodged a major bullet!!!

NOTE: Reference the guy on the river right rear pontoon.


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## Andy H. (Oct 13, 2003)

wildh2onriver said:


> What's with the guy on the flipped boat with no pfd?
> 
> It's amazing to me that someone did not get hurt or worse, on that trip--at least from viewing that clip anyway...


Goodgodamighty.

At first I thought that the guy without a PFD just had it on too loosely and got it sucked off in his swim - you know, like the guy that drowned recently on WW. But at the 0:40 mark you can see him during the water fight and he doesn't have a PFD on then either. It looks like that's as they're going through some real swirly water down below Miner's. Having done some pretty stupid stuff myself I'm not usually one to armchair quarterback but the oarsman on the red boat should be banned from any whitewater for a few years for letting someone on his boat go into the rapids without a PFD on, much less the fact that its against the regs. I've swam in WW at a lot lower level and been held under by the vortices for a looooooong time even with 25 lbs of floatation. Wally's damn lucky he didn't fall in on an eddy line and that he got to come back up in time to breathe again.

Even on flatwater, any time you see a big boil come up, ask where that water went down and what it would've been like to be without a PFD if you'd been there...

Alex nailed it - a good example of what not to do.

Be safe and not like these Darwin candidates. 

-AH


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## bigben (Oct 3, 2010)

wow. just wow. good thing you all ate your lucky charms that morning. that might have been the shittiest shit show that ever shat. and what was the point of that kid up front playing magic trick with the rope??...seriously, be thankful everyone made it out. 

ATTN. ALL DUMBASSES: WEAR YOUR FUCKING PFD. THEY WILL SAVE YOUR LIFE 
...i think i'm gonna slap the next person i see boating without a pfd on


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## Pcdc2 (Jan 24, 2011)

kazak4x4 said:


> Wow was all I could say...


Haha Im glad I wasn't the only that couldn't believe what a cluster that was. Too funny (in a man they're lucky no one got hurt sort of way).


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## Pcdc2 (Jan 24, 2011)

The kid pulling all the rope out of the throw bag rather than just throwing it was priceless.


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## kazak4x4 (May 25, 2009)

Pcdc2 said:


> The kid pulling all the rope out of the throw bag rather than just throwing it was priceless.


lol that's what I kept thinking, there has to be an end to the rope sometime.


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## yesimapirate (Oct 18, 2010)

I have to agree with Andy. Red boat's captain should be shot for letting Wally go with no pfd. Wally should be shot for not caring more of his own life. I'm still trying to figure out what the cameraman means by "grab him underneath the hooks". And I love the line - "Nappy, hold on for everything!"


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## TUNACAT (Jun 6, 2011)

I have a 16 foot oar boat and permit on JULY 22nd. However, Looking to jump on a permit THursday July 21st. Me and one other person. Anyone have room?


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## yesimapirate (Oct 18, 2010)

7-9-11 Report from our trip run at roughly 27K.

*Put in*: Class 4 mosquitoes
*Wild Horse*: Fast and some good swirls, but mostly washed out
*Little D*: Running the big wave train on river right sends you into the monster eddie. I stayed more center.
*Marble, Staircase, Big Hummer, Funnel, and Surprise*: washed out, main current pretty wide with serious eddies/swirls on both sides, couple good big waves. It was hard to distinguish between them 
*Skull*: The lateral at the top on the left actually has a monster hole at the bottom. The 16' cat in my group hit it head on, and came out up-right but was completely buried at one point. I stayed just right of that lateral, and just to the left of going over Skull. Skull's mess of after-waves pushed me towards the RoS pretty good, but with some pulls back it spit me out in good shape.
*Bowling Alley's and Sock-it-to-me*: Insane swirls, some decent waves where the canyon constricted, but no big holes. 
*Last Chance: *Fast water pushing towards the far wall around the bend, but no rapid.

*Flat water paddle out*: Not too bad with water moving so fast


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## Curtiso (May 18, 2011)

How long did it take to go from put in to take out?


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## steveskinner (Dec 19, 2006)

I'd guess around 2-2.5 hrs...


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## yesimapirate (Oct 18, 2010)

We actually stayed overnight. If we hadn't, I'm guessing 3.5 hours tops for start to finish.


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## nightingale (Aug 12, 2007)

powdahound76 said:


> Nice oar work Nightingale! How are things for you? That is a badass WW trip for sure. Just spent 4 days on Poudre with Anthony. Was very sweet. Lets go boatin sometime soon.
> Elija


Definitely Elija!! Love to! Shoot me an email and let's go boatin! Heading down the Ark on Sunday if you are around. We should catch up and I hope you and the misses are well!


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## TakemetotheRiver (Oct 4, 2007)

Not to say that wasn't the biggest shit show ever, but I think the guy was wearing a pfd- under his shirt!


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## RiverCowboy (Mar 14, 2011)

I wonder if they flipped the raft back over before Cisco...or just beached her inverted and opened the valves?


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## Curtiso (May 18, 2011)

Just got off WW and it was awesome, it only took us three hours to do the whole thing but it was a lot of fun! There are a lot of whirlpools, some waves. And Skull was a blast.


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## pinemnky13 (Jun 4, 2007)

Was that a Saturn?
If it was it is another reason to put on the list


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## Whoapiglet (Aug 23, 2010)

noticed that too- two of them! This trip was destined for disaster from the start!


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## pinemnky13 (Jun 4, 2007)

Taht and the air guitar paddle, sure sign of impending doom!


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## Paulkayaknenninger (Jun 3, 2007)

Yup, Dude was wearing a PFD under his Tall-T, For Style points I Guess?


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