# Mnt. Miser?



## stinginrivers (Oct 18, 2003)

Word on the street has it that they are closed. Definately a bummer for the boating community.


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## highspeed (Oct 12, 2003)

Telemarktips has all but confirmned the sad news

http://www.telemarktalk.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=16829


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## Powderpinhead (Jun 28, 2005)

The Mountainmiser is one of the best shops in the state and will truely be missed. Best of luck to David and all of the staff at the Miser. 

David, I will meet you under chair one.....Kensel


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## Dan5280 (Jan 13, 2006)

*Mountain Miser Closed?*

Tragic. Kensel, it's not only one of the best in Colorado, it's easily one of the very best in the country. Where else are you going to see such a wide range of top notch equipment? Kansas? Florida? Ohio? 

He'd better not be moving back to Texas. If I recall, his lease should be up around now. 

Chair 1....see you soon.


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## Kris M (Oct 22, 2003)

Wishing them well is fine and good but they were in the process of doing a warranty replacement on my EZG! They called a couple weeks ago and told me it would be another couple weeks before the new boat was to arrive. If anyone knows how to get in touch with them please post or pm me. 

I did drop an e-mail to wavesport, but if anyone knows who the rep is these days, let me know.

Kris


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## WhiteLightning (Apr 21, 2004)

Their web site is still up. Do you think there will be a closeout sale?


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## Dan5280 (Jan 13, 2006)

*Kris M*

Kris,
my email is [email protected].
They deserve a chance to take care of it, but if for any reason you get no response, email me and I'll get you in contact with the owner. 

D


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## cecil (May 30, 2005)

Kris M check your PM's


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## Geezer (Oct 14, 2003)

Good luck David with whatever you do. We will miss you and your shop.


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## stiff (May 23, 2004)

It's a shame. I'll especially miss the gear swaps.


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## Phillips (Feb 19, 2004)

Pick up your consignment gear at Edgeworks on 8th and Broadway and give Matt a big hug. If he doesn't have your stuff, you can email miser at [email protected]. Good luck!!

Kent


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## Guest (Jan 17, 2006)

*Let this be a lesson to us!*

Everyone should take notice of this trend. We need to support our local shops and be strong with holding out on conveinent internet price gouging. It seems we have some options. Make a conscious decision to purchase as much paddling apparel that meets your needs with the local shop you like, or you might be out of luck with that same day purchase you need to go boating. What happens when you slice your only spray skirt and want to hit your favorite creek run that is finally releasing. What will our options be if BOC, Alpineglow, Golden River Sports, and Confluence go the way of the Dodo? Keep this in mind when you order your boat online new for $100 cheaper than your shop can provide it for (taxes and shipping).

Not everything that you may need will be at your local shop. But when you do a price comparison (of something they have in stock) or search for a certain product and then choose to shop online because it is cheaper, you are putting your local store out of business.

This shop was not only kayaking obviously. But with the rise of e-comerce and e-bay these guys that take care of us will have to rely on their loyal locals! Lets not miss the real point.

NH


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## BastrdSonOfElvis (Mar 24, 2005)

Just wait til walmart sells boats :twisted:


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## WhiteLightning (Apr 21, 2004)

I think that a lot of the people you buy stuff online from are people like www.mountainmiser.com. I think people like them who have brick and morter stores and add the e-com element are the most successful. It is so easy now to set up e-commerce that a lot of the people you are buying from online are the same mom 'n pop shops that are in your neighborhood. I guess my point is that shopping online isn't selling out or anything, especially when you are still supporting someone's local shop who happens to have spent some time setting up a web site. 

If it weren't for eBay and boat swaps, I probably never would have been able to start boating, either.


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## johnny portage (Apr 17, 2005)

I always had good experiences with Mountain Miser, I can't say that about the rest.

-jp


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## Bobby Whitit (Dec 15, 2003)

I agree with big Nick

Think globally shop locally. When you have great mom and pops in your area, buy from them. And do not ask for Brodeals. Brodeals don't pay the bills. Many times the good deals on line aren't such good deals. When
you need service and warranty help.

Chad and Earl do a great job with E-Sales. But they are hitting the parts of the country that do not have the great kayak stores like we have here.

David good luck and sorry to see the shop go.


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## mountainmiser (Jan 13, 2005)

Kris,

This is Gary, I was the Kayaking department manager. I was out of town for the first part of the winter and you ezg 42 came in while I was out of town. Please give me any info; full name, dates, etc... and I will work with the wavesport guys to get you your new boat.

So for the trouble,

Gary
[email protected]


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## basil (Nov 20, 2005)

Here's the Denver Post article:

http://www.denverpost.com/business/ci_3412182


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## marko (Feb 25, 2004)

First of all, I am sorry to the owners of Mtn Miser. I never shopped at the store, but it is always a bummer to see a local business have to shut down. 

I just want to chime in and disagree with what NHINDS posted. So, as Ron Burgundy says, "I agree to disagree"

Whitelightning's post said it very well! Most of the online kayaks shop ARE the local mom and pops stores, and are NOT big corporations. The kayaking industry is very, very small; therefore, it is only natural for these businesses to adapt to the competitive market and build online websites. With the increase in e-commerce shopping worldwide, it would seem logical and intelligent for a local shop to build an online store. For these shops to sit back and wish everybody shopped locally would be a great way for their business to never make any money or to become extinct. It is not fair to blame consumers for wanting to shop online. Especially if these consumers don't have a local shop or prefer a certain shop because they receive extrodinary customer service, a variety of choices, and, yes, competitive prices. 

There are way to many other factors that contribute to the growing trend that NHINDS mentioned. Labeling online shopping as the sole problem to a local business shutting down is not a fair statement.

Later


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## Guest (Jan 20, 2006)

San Diego was not named after a whale's vagina? 

Marko you do have a great point! My statement was a comment on the actions of some consumers throughout the nation. CKS is a great store and I was not calling you all out. Going online is a necessity for survival, that is certain if you are a shop and want to sell a lot of product. That is a fact of life these days. You will see CKS is not the type of store I am talking about in my below clarification. 

I speak with small shop owners daily and try to help them sauce out their marketing strategies. Many speak to me personally about a certain type of customer that will come in the shop and use the knowledgable staff for advice. They use the small store to get the right information on what they may need, like a novice kayaker for example. 

If they went to one of the large stores (like REI, EMS, Gallyans is the prime example in CO) they might have the cheapest prices, but a real problem with product and overall paddlesports knowledge. The can offer great deals and sell products cheap cause their parent corporations buy in bulk. Their sales staff rarely will sell the right thing to a person who is unsure what they are really looking for. Client has a bad experience and is not interested in paddlesports or whitewater.

Some customers will get the info on what they need from a store (taking valuable time away) and then go directly to the web and purchase it for a cheaper price. That is there right as a consumer in a capitalist economy but is it right as a boater in the community? 

I am not saying don't buy online. I am saying that maybe you should check out your local shops price (and even maybe their online site) before going to another large outlet style retailer. Especially if you want that resource around for your immediate needs in the future.

I guess I started ranting in my first post but I think it is worth pondering. Being in the lucky position of testing most products I use and not really purchasing much over the past 2 years, it is hot air from me. But I hear of stores having trouble and going out of biz every week. Many local boaters are bummed by this type of trend in their area.

Nick


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## marko (Feb 25, 2004)

Nick
Thanks for your clarification, and I agree with it as well.

And, just for my clarification, I am currently not working for CKS anymore. I was just posting from my own perspective. 

See ya around,
Mark


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## WhiteLightning (Apr 21, 2004)

Below is an interesting article from today's Vail Daily. Locally here in the Vail area, we live in a relatively small fish bowl of shopping choices. One of the people interviewed in the article says something like "we either have wal-mart for clothes or the tourist cashmere and fur store, there is nothing in between, so we go to Denver or shop online". Anyways, some of this applies to what you guys are talking about, and the rest is unique to some of us in the mountains.

From the Vail Daily:

Locals hit the road, or go online


Valley shoppers try to support small stores but sometimes discouraged by lack of variety



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Click to Enlarge

Browse Vail Daily Photos 
Sarah Heilig of Minnesota looks thriough a t-shirt rack in Vail Village. Some locals think the area's stores cater mostly to tourists.
Preston Utley/Daily file photo


Nikki Katz
January 18, 2006

Comments (0) Print Email

EAGLE COUNTY - Kandi Smith of Edwards is an avid Internet shopper. She buys clothes online because she likes the variety and the low prices - things, she said, that Vail doesn't offer.

"You go to llbean.com and see a shirt you like for 40 bucks. At the small boutiques, they're charging $280. That's a big difference if you work for a living," Smith said.

And because Wal-Mart doesn't carry what her daughter wants for her birthday, she'll probably look for it online, Smith said.

"If I can't find it, I'll look online, and I would consider going to Wishes - I like to support my community - but it's the only toy store around here," Smith said.


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Chris Mullineux, right of Ironwood, Michigan does some shopping in Vail Village with freinds Caryn Reib, left, and Lauri Neibauer both from Mellen, Wisconsin. Some locals say they shop on the Internet because cater more to tourists.
Preston Utley/Daily file photo

Browse Vail Daily Photos 
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She would love to see more stores in the area, particularly a Target, Smith said.

"It'd be nice to have more stores up here, but there are not enough people in this valley to employ, especially with the expensive housing," Smith said.

Mark Windels of West Vail rarely visits Vail's small stores. Windels said they are too expensive.

"Even if the Vail Valley had more stores, everything would still be too expensive because of the high property taxes," Windels said. "Shopping in Vail Valley is expensive. That's why people go to Denver - they take shopping trips on the weekends."

Small, specialty stores play a "risky role," competing with bigger stores and thriving on tourists, Windels said.

"Multimillion dollar homes are being built, and specialty stores cater to their owners," Windels said. "You see all this upscale furniture in stores - they've got the market cornered."

Jon Peterson, from Minneapolis, Minn., is outfitting his vacation home in East Vail. He said he's starting with the basics like pots and sheets.

"I wouldn't envision commodity goods being priced better than at Wal-Mart," Peterson said. "When I want more unique things, I'll go to the smaller stores."

Many locals said they would prefer to shop at smaller stores if the prices weren't unrealistic for their budgets.

"If I had the money I would shop at the expensive tourist stores, but I also think there's big value (in stores like Wal-Mart) where people get everything in one stop," said Tammy Brown of Vail.

Customer service is one of the biggest differences between shopping at small stores and shopping at big stores or online, said Tommy Lauhoff of Edwards.


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Local shoppers say they struggle to support local businesses and when faced with low prices at stores like Wal-Mart and a bigger election on the Internet.
Shane Macomber/Vail Daily

Browse Vail Daily Photos 
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"I like small stores, little 'mom and pop' places. At smaller specialty stores, there's usually customer service. They take better care of their customers," Lauhoff said.

Barbara Eichler of Gypsum turned to the Internet to buy presents during the Christmas rush. She doesn't usually go online to buy things, but she didn't want to have to travel to Silverthorne, Glenwood Springs or Denver to shop, she said.

"I don't like sitting in front of a computer, but I do go online if I can't find what I'm looking for in stores," Eichler said.

Many locals said they like to feel a product with their hands, read the back and compare it to other products before they buy something. When Matt Rigsby of Avon set out to buy a digital camera, he went to a store to check out a couple cameras before he bought one of them online.

"I wanted to touch it, feel it, see all its features, but it was cheaper online," Rigsby said.

Brown does almost all of her clothes shopping online. "Purses, shoes, jewelry --you can get cheaper name brands on eBay," Brown said. "There's not enough variety in Vail."

Rigsby said he would also like to see more variety in Vail.

"I would prefer more stores to go to, a Target, a mall or anywhere else to get better clothes," Rigsby said. "We've got small stores, which are expensive, and we've got Wal-Mart. We've got the low end and the high end but no medium."



Vail, Colorado


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## WhiteLightning (Apr 21, 2004)

P.S.

Source was 
http://www.vaildaily.com/article/20060118/NEWS/101180027/0/FRONTPAGE

You may have to register to read or post comments.

-d


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## cayo (Mar 20, 2005)

Hey BSOE,
Walmart already sells boats,the Sevylor Caravelle for like 30 bucks.I'll buy it for you if you let me watch you run upr.NSV in it.
will miss the miser


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## Electric-Mayhem (Jan 19, 2004)

I've been into Galyans and other stores like it, and the boats aren't any cheaper really. $25-50 bucks perhaps. The gear can be cheaper but its usually not the best and most desirable stuff. REI definetly isn't any cheaper and is often more expensive for boating gear then most of the local shops. So I'm not too worried about internet sales from that standpoint.

What does get me pretty hard core is what Nick was talking about in his last post. From someone who has worked in the industry on several levels (worked for Wildwasser on the manufacturer side and several different boating shops on the retail), its really annoying and disheartening to give someone alot of information, help them make a decision about what they want, and put alot of work into a sale, only to have them turn around and buy something online because it was $25 bucks cheaper. The worst part is, when the item they buy doesn't fit or it breaks, they never deal with the random internet sales company, they bring it to you. 

Even if the shop they bought it from was some other mom and pop shop that happens to do online sales, its still really crappy to deal with. So I guess what I am saying is that, if you try something on, ask a bunch of questions, and take up a bunch of someones time, then at least be decent enough to give them the business. I've finally escaped the retail life and am very glad for it, mostly because I don't have to deal with stuff like that.


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## benrodda (Mar 27, 2004)

I love shpping on the Internet! Typically I will do all of my research on the internet and then I will purchase from a local shop. Often the savings are lost in shipping unless you want to get the Item like 2 weeks later. By then I could have driven to the shop and have my shiny new thing. Yay for immediate gratification.

I will miss the miser. Bought a boat there and some other gear.

Is Confluence hurting? Good guys there too.

ben


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## Lurch (Jun 8, 2004)

It sucks to see a good shop go. I dropped a lot of change there in the last few years and made some too at their swaps. Any info on when the public will be able to pick over the remaining gear?


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## sundown (Jul 16, 2005)

Confluence is a good shop, I have always gotten good customer service there. Don and Jon are great. They take the time to actually sell you the right product or just BS about misadventures. The same can be said for Golden river sports and Alpenglow. All, have in my experience have been a pleasure to visit. So Thanks. It might not hurt to spread the word and get a few new folks into the sport.

Ry


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## Dirty Al (Oct 13, 2003)

*SOL???*

I sold my Kayak at Mtn Miser's last swap and still have a gift card with several hundred dollars left on it, does anyone know if there is anyway to recoup that money? I guess I may have just given my boat away! Thanks for any info.
--Al


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## Phillips (Feb 19, 2004)

From what I've heard, I don't think your gift card will be honored. They shut their doors and split. Nothing personal, just business. email them at [email protected]. I guess its worth a shot.

good luck and sorry
Kent


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## brendodendo (Jul 18, 2004)

As I spend most of my day online, it is easy to look up lots of info. When I make a purchase of something more tangible, I like to look, feel and try. My local shop (you can probabbly figure out) is not so helpful. They have high prices and poor service. On the other hand Alpenglow made my trip to Cataract Canyon last fall O-SO much Sweeter by figuring out a way to get me the gear I needed @ a price I could afford and FAST. I posted that I needed Oars on the Buzz and It came to pass that they were delivered from Denver. I will remember that the next time I have earned cash burning a hole in my pocket.


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## twitch (Oct 16, 2003)

Ben -

I'd chalk that one up to the individual who helped you and not to the shop.  The kid who delivered the oars to you actually worked for Mtn. Miser, he just happened to be a good friend. 

Glad to hear the trip went well though.


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## howlie (Nov 24, 2003)

Twitch- save lives, donate a coat.

call me


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## Kris M (Oct 22, 2003)

Seems there are lots of us that sold gear at the end of the season last year. I was waiting to use my gift card (was a PFD) for new paddling stuff this season. 

Hopefully I will have my warranty replacement EZG next week......


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## mountainmiser (Jan 13, 2005)

Kris,

The Colorado Rep. has all the info and I am hoping that things go through very fast. Please let me know if you have any trouble.

Gary
[email protected]


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## Mountain Shop PRK (May 5, 2004)

*mountain miser--support your local shops*

this just goes to show you how important it is to support your local shops. miser's situation is no different from what many of us face--increasing competition from the internet and big boxes. the market is small for specialty outdoor gear, and every sale really counts. 

the mountain shop in fort collins welcomes anyone looking for a shop similar to the miser. we carry backcountry ski gear, canoes and kayaks, climbing gear, backpacking gear, and lots of great accessories. having been around for 35 years, we'd like to stay around another 35. 

We certainly wish best of luck to David Goodman and his whole crew from the miser!!! We'll miss you guys at the shows.
---Matt


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## tboner (Oct 13, 2003)

here's my .02... for me and most all my bros, shopping online or at the big box isnt' an option. Here' s why
big boxes:
the stuff they have is usually the cheap crap that apply's to the lowest common denominator... which we aren't. Before I became a Confluence regular I was told at REI to go down the street to Confluence b/c "they have the best stuff and knowledgable staff" This was said to me by an REI employee!! THEY hooked ME up with Confluence!! 

online: nope.. can't wait for the item to ship nor do i ever want to deal with getting the wrong item or one that doesn' fit. this is gear you bet your life on and i need someone to stand behind it. the only time i ever hear of people buying online is with the big ticket items like a boat (mostly hard to find boats) and the savings far out weighed the alternative. and correct me if i'm wrong but I've always heard that kayak shop's bread and butter isn't in boat sales but smaller items with bigger margins anyway.

so i think there's more to the Miser closing than meets the eye. this is a small community that has traditionally supported it's own. we as boaters love small shops, buy our gear from them religiously, find friends and boating partners when we're lost and lonely. get all the beta we need from them and all in all give more money to them than our wives/husbands/children. we find one we like and stick to them longer than most relationships we've ever had (next to my car mechanic).

so i think we need to stop blaming "the man" and look at actual issues the store may or may not of had. here's a couple off the top of my head... 
How much money do you think the Miser had invested in inventory??? holy sh!t i've never seen so much gear packed in a building like that. and it was all top notch stuff. not cheap people. they had as much gear packed in that building (which isn't what i would call a small mom and pop shop anyway) than the REI flagship store. i'll bet their inventory costs rivaled those of some box stores.

here's another more personal... when i buy gear it's usually planned on my way out of town on the day of the adventure. The Miser's location wasn't excactly what I would call convenient for me. but that's just me and we're i live.

so stop blaming "the man" and look at it for what it is.. perhaps it was a bad business plan. and all the cool vibes and bro-deals in the industry won't save them from that. 

-tboner


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## rasdoggy (Jan 31, 2005)

This was the down fall of the Miser. 
"Dude the shop down the street will sell me that for XXX$$$$$ will you match that?" if not I am going there.

Give me a break. 
Keep the car dealer mentality there, these small shops are trying to feed their employees and keep their doors open on a profit margin that barely keeps the light bill paid.


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## LoopDog (Apr 13, 2004)

It's survival of the fittest. Confluence has a better location, great staff, and they only do whitewater. Mtn. Miser had to much other stuff going on(hiking,climbing) and not as big of an inventory/selection as Confluence. 
It sucks the Miser had to go out, there were some really cool people that worked there, but Confluence has a better thing going on.
What's up with them not honoring their gift cards? Dirty Al, that's thirty cases of PBR they owe you!


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## Don (Oct 16, 2003)

*CK*

Thanks for pushing the shop. Miser's demise has a lot to do with catagories they were selling and the compition from Big Box stores and internet clearing houses like Ebay.

If you like to shop at local stores, put more pressure on the reps to not open up big box stores with specialty goods. Plus, there are too many dealers in the same area. How many kayak shops are there in the state of Colorado? The number of dealers does not increase the number of sales. It's the number of shoppers that drives business.

The kayak industry has different margins than say the clothing industry. Did you know that store like Norstrom can choose their margins based on what packaging they choose? It's true they pick margins from 50-400%. The kayak industry is based on 40% margins, but that would be in a perfect world. What the manufactures have on paper and reality are two different things. That 40% doesn't include shipping, wrapping, and fuel surplus charges. Those charges are paid for by the dealers. So, the realistic margins are closer to 20+%. So, you can see those end of year sales are not money makers. They are there to make sure we don't lose money on every boat.

The sad fact is that Miser is not honering their gift cards, because they are out of business. Holding on to store credits is a gamble. 

Confluence Kayaks will help out the local crew as much as we can. If you are holding a Mountain Miser gift card we will give you 10% Off your next purchase (sorry, does Not include boats). New 2006 goods are showing up every day.


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## cecil (May 30, 2005)

customer service goes a long way too. from my experiences, Confluence is very customer service savvy. Don and the crew understand how important it is to keep your customer base happy. shit, I drive across town to the same old dry cleaners every week just because they address me by name when I walk in the door. My experiences with the Miser were not has pleasant. Don't want to go into details, but I had to write letters to the owner due to poor service there. Not that that was the downfall, but I guaruntee the it didn't help the cause. In a world of ever increaseing compitition the thing that will make shops stand out isn't going to be their prices or products, it will be how they make each customer feel when they walk in the door. just my $.02


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## danm (Mar 29, 2005)

*mtn miser is doing business on ebay*

To all that feel sorry for D.G. he seems to be doing just fine selling the inventory without honoring the gift cards issued for gear sold at past swaps. At present he has 63 items in the telemark section. At least he could do is offer to refund money to long time customers that supported him in the past.


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## Leland (Jan 25, 2004)

*and maybe?*

maybe D.G. is selling that inventory to pay back banks and vendors to whom he owes $$ first, so that he doesn't wind up in collections with everyone. how do you know he's pocketing the money and running?

the guy really loved what he did - I'm sure this is hard enough for him without a bunch of people accusing him of doing it to take advantage of them and rip them off.

L


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