# Vandalism of the Cenotaph



## Nanko (Oct 20, 2020)

Meh, fake news to begin with. At least fake in the confidence it claims. Vandalism wouldn’t be my personal answer, but I get it.


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## peak (Apr 7, 2006)

Subscribed!


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## uthbtr (Feb 28, 2021)

Who cares? For one they're probably right, and two it's not like they destroyed or defaced the red rock, just the plaque. The plaque is already basically graffiti, just official and fancy looking graffiti.


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## Electric-Mayhem (Jan 19, 2004)

I certainly don't condone vandalism of historical artifacts.... but I'll admit it kind of amuses me for some reason.

I'm kind of surprised that plaque is still there for many reasons. I mean, it was put up in 1939 nearly 100 years after the actual event happened and uses an often divisive nomenclature for the "Ancestral Puebloans", as Peggy was prone to say, for something they don't really know what truly happened.

For most of the Petroglyphs and Pictorgraphs I've seen.... I can't help but to see the graffiti of some bored kids/teenagers from 500-1000+ years ago. Not saying that means we should add to it or deface it, but that just pops into my head when I see them sometimes.


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## westwatercuban (May 19, 2021)

uthbtr said:


> Who cares? For one they're probably right, and two it's not like they destroyed or defaced the red rock, just the plaque. The plaque is already basically graffiti, just official and fancy looking graffiti.


Well I do. Regardless of intent, defacing a memorial/plaque/statue/painting/etc isn’t an appropriate way to communicate issues to the world. I don’t understand this generations lack of self control.


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## Bigwaterforeveryone (Feb 7, 2018)

How can you tell how old the defacer is?


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## jeffro (Oct 13, 2003)

OK Boomer


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## yesimapirate (Oct 18, 2010)

For those who don't know(like me)


i·ras·ci·ble
/iˈrasəbəl/
Learn to pronounce

_adjective_


having or showing a tendency to be easily angered.


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## BastrdSonOfElvis (Mar 24, 2005)

All at the same time I think it's kind of funny, very well true, and a terrible thing to do.


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## ChillyH20WV (Jul 5, 2005)

The plaque has been like that for at least a couple years. I was on an April 2020 trip when Diamond was closed. If you’re going to bring the perp to justice start questioning folks that were down there before then.


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## carvedog (May 11, 2005)

I came here prepared to be incensed at vandalism, which I despise, and found myself unperturbed and amused.


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## SheepEater (Jul 9, 2020)

westwatercuban said:


> I don’t understand this generations lack of self control.


Do you know the age of the vandal? It seems to me that someone who commits vandalism on federal property would be more likely to be of a certain political orientation than a certain age. See, I can make broad, unsupported claims to offend large groups of people and make myself feel better, too.


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## westwatercuban (May 19, 2021)

SheepEater said:


> Do you know the age of the vandal? It seems to me that someone who commits vandalism on federal property would be more likely to be of a certain political orientation than a certain age. See, I can make broad, unsupported claims to offend large groups of people and make myself feel better, too.


Generation may not have been the proper word. I just mean that in this day and age. Seems like people feel like they can do whatever they want. So they do..


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## SheepEater (Jul 9, 2020)

Fair enough, I can't disagree with that.


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## TJP (Nov 20, 2020)

westwatercuban said:


> Generation may not have been the proper word. I just mean that in this day and age. Seems like people feel like they can do whatever they want. So they do..


I dont know, in 1869 a guy got killed climbing to the north rim. In 2020 a guy sharpied a plaque, and in 2022 some people wrote on the internet about a sharpied plaque. 

We’re not too out of control.


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## Nanko (Oct 20, 2020)

westwatercuban said:


> Generation may not have been the proper word. I just mean that in this day and age. Seems like people feel like they can do whatever they want. So they do..


Most Western USA history has been shaped by people who felt they could do whatever they want. And they did.


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## westwatercuban (May 19, 2021)

Nanko said:


> Most Western USA history has been shaped by people who felt they could do whatever they want. And they did.


Humans as assholes. Humans have rewrote history in every part of the world to fit their agenda a needs. You guys act like this is strictly an American thing. Regardless of what’s fact and fiction, the act still doesn't make it right. Two wrongs don’t make a right.


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## Nanko (Oct 20, 2020)

westwatercuban said:


> Humans as assholes. Humans have rewrote history in every part of the world to fit their agenda a needs. You guys act like this is strictly an American thing. Regardless of what’s fact and fiction, the act still doesn't make it right. Two wrongs don’t make a right.


Agreed. I do have a hard time caring about writing on a racist sign installed post-Hoover (the TRUE Canyon vandalism). But yes you are correct. No argument here. I was just pushing back a bit on the point that this entitlement is some sign of the times. It’s a fine Western tradition and the reason this region is what it is, for better or worse.


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## upacreek (Mar 17, 2021)

I think in the Grand scheme of things, the difference between a "pioneer" and a "vandal" is all in the perspective. To the First Nations for example, I doubt they saw the "inscriptions" all along the Colorado River (that are now considered as historically significant artifacts) as much more than white man's graffiti.

In this case, I'd say the sign damage is relatively harmless, seems reversible, and dare say actually _corrects _the original plaque pushing a revisionist version of Western expansions/settlement. Though this is def the kind of thing that riles up a certain class of self-important American that still feels we Manifestly tamed the frontier as was our Destiny to take it all from the natives. But by god the Mormons indeed did their fair and square share of killing to get/keep what they wanted..


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## BastrdSonOfElvis (Mar 24, 2005)

upacreek said:


> Though this is def the kind of thing that riles up a certain class of self-important American that still feels we Manifestly tamed the frontier as was our Destiny to take it all from the natives.


Sounds like somebody needs to give his house and the land it's on back to the Utes.


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## gnarsify (Oct 5, 2020)

ChillyH20WV said:


> The plaque has been like that for at least a couple years. I was on an April 2020 trip when Diamond was closed. If you’re going to bring the perp to justice start questioning folks that were down there before then.


I was down there in September 2020 and remembered seeing this vandalism. Looks like someone touched it up between then and now...


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## Dangerfield (May 28, 2021)

Wasn't scribed/chiseled into the plaque or stone - fairly harmless. Hey wait, I know someone that likes to use Sharpie's.


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## upacreek (Mar 17, 2021)

BastrdSonOfElvis said:


> Sounds like somebody needs to give his house and the land it's on back to the Utes.


Actually I've got Niwot's Curse to deal with over here, bud. But with that kind of binary thinking maybe there's a bigger problem with smaller minds over there on the Bestern Slope.


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## Electric-Mayhem (Jan 19, 2004)

.... and now its getting personal. 

Yeah.... I'm out.... have fun with all your guys usual bullshit.


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## BastrdSonOfElvis (Mar 24, 2005)

Naw, it just gets old listening to the virtue signaling of the holier-than-thou myth of the noble savage types who love to preach but can't practice is all -- as though they don't reap the benefits of the history they decry. I wouldn't call it personal.


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## Nanko (Oct 20, 2020)

upacreek said:


> I think in the Grand scheme of things, the difference between a "pioneer" and a "vandal" is all in the perspective.


Yeah, not exactly a clear line especially with a rolling baseline for protected items. Soon there will be federally-protected Mountain Dew cans.


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## Pinchecharlie (Jul 27, 2017)

Was t it Kurt vonegout jr (sp) who said , someone somewhere right now is scribbling fuck you on something. As a guy who’s job is to clean off graffiti (school facilities worker) I can tell you the absolute number one hands down scribble on something your not supposed to is a penis with squirts coming out the pee hole. Someone go down there and right the wrong.


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## Nanko (Oct 20, 2020)

Pinchecharlie said:


> Was t it Kurt vonegout jr (sp) who said , someone somewhere right now is scribbling fuck you on something. As a guy who’s job is to clean off graffiti (school facilities worker) I can tell you the absolute number one hands down scribble on something your not supposed to is a penis with squirts coming out the pee hole. Someone go down there and right the wrong.


All your findings would make a real nice coffee table book one day.


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## tetoncounty (May 19, 2016)

20,000 people a year, myself included, piss in that river. I'm just tryna keep a little perspective here.


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## Randaddy (Jun 8, 2007)

I heard that the Mormons did it themselves.


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## yesimapirate (Oct 18, 2010)

Banksy?


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## Wallrat (Jan 19, 2021)

tetoncounty said:


> 20,000 people a year, myself included, piss in that river. I'm just tryna keep a little perspective here.


For what it’s worth, the fish do even worse.


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## tetonadam (Apr 30, 2019)

mrbaum said:


> My buddy sent me this picture after his recent grand trip, really makes me
> Irascible when stuff like this happens.


It seems to me that it isn’t vandalism. Just a simple correction.


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## Randaddy (Jun 8, 2007)

I would have liked to see someone petition to have the inscription changed, because it is inaccurate and offensive. Then a public discussion could surround the action, and make sure it doesn't just reflect the views of one person.

Changing it yourself is selfish and weak. No different than knocking over a statue or spray painting a piece of art in protest, IMO.


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## tetonadam (Apr 30, 2019)

tetoncounty said:


> 20,000 people a year, myself included, piss in that river. I'm just tryna keep a little perspective here.


My piss last April was highly diluted with Bud Light. It’s the IPA piss that really causes a stink.


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## dsrtrat (May 29, 2011)

mrbaum said:


> My buddy sent me this picture after his recent grand trip, really makes me
> Irascible when stuff like this happens.


If you look carefully the newer white marker is covering an earlier scratched in word that has been there for at least the last 20 or so years. It was partially removed but was faintly visible. It's been scratched in and removed a few times over the years.


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## dsrtrat (May 29, 2011)

History of the plaques if anybody is interested.



https://static1.squarespace.com/static/61d3bc4beef7c3126df06d78/t/61feaf7fcc856f2102208766/1644081024564/The-Boys-Left-Us-From-the-Powell-Memorial-to-the-Plaques-at-Separation.pdf


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## Therealjohnjohnmiller (May 5, 2021)

Randaddy said:


> I would have liked to see someone petition to have the inscription changed, because it is inaccurate and offensive. Then a public discussion could surround the action, and make sure it doesn't just reflect the views of one person.
> 
> Changing it yourself is selfish and weak. No different than knocking over a statue or spray painting a piece of art in protest, IMO.


some statues need to be torn down my guy


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## rkb1489 (4 mo ago)

mrbaum said:


> My buddy sent me this picture after his recent grand trip, really makes me
> Irascible when stuff like this happens.


Ever heard of the mountain meadows massacre when mormons dressed up as Indians and killed a whole bunch of settlers? There's indications that the men who departed from Powell's expedition were not murdered Indians. This isn't an indictment of all mormons, but history is written by the winners, not the victims.


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## von Bose (5 mo ago)

mrbaum said:


> My buddy sent me this picture after his recent grand trip, really makes me
> Irascible when stuff like this happens.


Maybe they thought it was like Wikipedia where you can update it. I was looking into the history and found this: 

"They say there's some evidence to suggest that Mormons killed the adventurers thinking that they were in fact, Federal spies. Some scholars point out that the Indians' own admission that they committed the murders was relayed to Powell through a Mormon interpreter, who possibly altered the story."


American Experience . Lost in the Grand Canyon . People & Events | Howlands & Dunn | PBS


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## Randaddy (Jun 8, 2007)

Therealjohnjohnmiller said:


> some statues need to be torn down my guy


I agree! That's what the public discourse and legislative process are for. Just tearing down a statue or vandalizing a plaque because you think it needs to happen is selfish, childish, and immoral by any standard.


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## TheAlaskan (Aug 9, 2015)

I oppose anyone leaving a trace of themselves on the river. Takes a lot of entitlement to do it so brazenly.


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## mforce (Sep 26, 2010)

A big nothing. Could do without the plaque being there.


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## mountain boy (Aug 20, 2021)

mrbaum said:


> My buddy sent me this picture after his recent grand trip, really makes me
> Irascible when stuff like this happens.


Don't mean to rain on yr parade but the mormon's were not and "are not" a peaceful "live and a let live" religious group, the Fetterman massacre, Jim Bridger hiding from mormons for 3 days in a tree who were trying to kill him and take his trading post, ect ect. In my home town they have tried to stack the city council with mormons. Go to one of their church's , it is like a corporate version of a place of worship, creeepy as all hell.


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## dsrtrat (May 29, 2011)

The Fetterman massacre had nothing to do with Mormons.


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## B4otter (Apr 20, 2009)

I think he means the Fincher party... Mountain Meadows.


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## Livenswell (Sep 19, 2016)

Jon Krakauer's book: "Under the Banner of Heaven" explores other mormon skullduggery but also gets into his research of the Mountain Meadows Massacre and is an excellent read on the topic with theories of what went down:






Jon Krakauer - Under the Banner of Heaven - Trade Paperback


This extraordinary work of investigative journalism takes readers inside America’s isolated Mormon Fundamentalist communities, where some 40,000 peop...




www.jonkrakauer.com


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## dsrtrat (May 29, 2011)

B4otter said:


> I think he means the Fincher party... Mountain Meadows.


I know what he meant; I live about 20 miles from the Mountain Medows site. The Baker- Fancher party from Missouri was attacked. I have a very distant relative who was killed. Just trying to set the record straight.


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## westwatercuban (May 19, 2021)

Therealjohnjohnmiller said:


> some statues need to be torn down my guy


I strongly disagree. Do ou know who else’s destroyed statues/monuments/books/artifacts?..

I think tearing down any statue/monument/plaque/etc is one of the worst things you could possibly do historically.

We all can agree that history was written by the winners. You are continuing that pattern by removing the said piece of history. I think it’s a perfect opportunity to educate individuals on the whole crazy story. You wouldn’t hurt anything nor anyone by adding to the statue/monument/plaque/etc. why take away and hide/remove the history regardless of if it was correct or not? I think history is very fascinating, there’s things we thought were true, and after more data/studies came to light we learned or realize the reality is something else. There’s things we will never know because the history was destroyed or erased.

Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it..


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## Nanko (Oct 20, 2020)

westwatercuban said:


> I strongly disagree. Do ou know who else’s destroyed statues/monuments/books/artifacts?..
> 
> I think tearing down any statue/monument/plaque/etc is one of the worst things you could possibly do historically.
> 
> ...


Your points are well-taken. I think a lot of what you hope to accomplish actually has been accomplished by the vandalism itself. I’d imagine it’s triggered many an enlightening conversation down there. As well as this conversation. Maybe we just slap this button on it and call it a day.


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## Pinchecharlie (Jul 27, 2017)

I know!!! A giant penis statue with squirts coming out the pee hole for every town square in the world and your done. Boom ! no more nonsense!


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## BastrdSonOfElvis (Mar 24, 2005)

Pinchecharlie said:


> I know!!! A giant penis statue with squirts coming out the lee hole for e wry town square in the world and your done. Boom no more nonsense!


It could be arfully done. I would welcome a stylized squirting member to my city square. It could be entitled "Life flows forth!"


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## GeoRon (Jun 24, 2015)

westwatercuban said:


> I strongly disagree. Do ou know who else’s destroyed statues/monuments/books/artifacts?..
> 
> I think tearing down any statue/monument/plaque/etc is one of the worst things you could possibly do historically.
> 
> ...


As usual, I strongly disagree with you. We will never forget the horrors of soviet authoritism, southern slavery, etc. We don't need statues and monuments glorifying the evil side of such times. The Germans erased nazi propaganda from their soils. The eastern Europeans tore down walls and commemorations of soviet occupation. We don't want statues in any city that were built long after the civil war by white supremist that symbolically represented Jim Crowism. If I lived in the south recently I'd like to think I'd be pulling on the ropes to bring those statues down because I did live there when I was young and remember signs that said "whites only" and worse. Jim Crow era statues have almost all been removed in the south and for a very good reason. No one will forget why the statues were there and why they were torn down. It is well documented in the history books you like and online at sites like Wiki. Google Jim Crow.

There are lots of battle site memorials, national monuments and national parks that respect the dead from both sides. Go to Gettysburg and you will see memorials to units on both sides who fought there respectfully recognizing their fallen.


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## Wallrat (Jan 19, 2021)

Pinchecharlie said:


> I know!!! A giant penis statue with squirts coming out the pee hole for every town square in the world and your done. Boom ! no more nonsense!


Oh man…Charlie’s being a dick!!!!


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## Big_B (Feb 17, 2019)

Didn't know you could vandalize vandalism.


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## mr. compassionate (Jan 13, 2006)

Therealjohnjohnmiller said:


> some statues need to be torn down my guy


Maybe with a correct process through the government, but now by a bunch of woke, leftist dbags.


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## mr. compassionate (Jan 13, 2006)

Livenswell said:


> Jon Krakauer's book: "Under the Banner of Heaven" explores other mormon skullduggery but also gets into his research of the Mountain Meadows Massacre and is an excellent read on the topic with theories of what went down:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes, great book. There is a Hulu series right now loosely based on the book.


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## Pinchecharlie (Jul 27, 2017)

Wouldn’t have thought I’d have such a good idea..,mine was just internet bullshit his is…art. Well shite a day late and a dollar short.


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## Pinchecharlie (Jul 27, 2017)

In case you lost interest in my opinion


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## Nanko (Oct 20, 2020)

Pinchecharlie said:


> View attachment 83865
> 
> In case you lost interest in my opinion


There are many Asian countries including those with mere fractions of our GDP that put us to shame on the critical penis art front. Even the few Sheepeaters made some glorious dick renderings on the MFS that dazzle us to this day. 

Our youth show great promise as Charlie can testify. As a country we just aren’t fostering the talent and have long since fallen behind both foe and ally in the Dick Wars. This national shame must be corrected!


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## jeffro (Oct 13, 2003)

And in 11,000 years they can try to figure out what charlie was trying to say. Even file a story under the "culture" category.








11,000 year-old carving of man holding his penis is the oldest narrative from the ancient world


The oldest narrative carving in the world depicts a man clutching a penis and being flanked by leopards were found in Turkey.




interestingengineering.com


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## BastrdSonOfElvis (Mar 24, 2005)

Looks like a monkey jacking off as he's about to get eaten by dinosaurs.
And really, if you're about to get eaten by dinosaurs...


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## Nanko (Oct 20, 2020)

_“With a man holding his penis and flanking by leopards…”_

That’s a solid intro to a sentence right there!


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## Wallrat (Jan 19, 2021)

Maybe the leopards were a metaphor? Like Grok is such a stud. He’s surrounded by…leopards. After all they don’t have cougars in Turkey.


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## BastrdSonOfElvis (Mar 24, 2005)

Oh they have cougars in Turkey, my friend.


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## Therealjohnjohnmiller (May 5, 2021)

westwatercuban said:


> I strongly disagree. Do ou know who else’s destroyed statues/monuments/books/artifacts?..
> 
> I think tearing down any statue/monument/plaque/etc is one of the worst things you could possibly do historically.
> 
> ...


In New Mexico, there is a statue of the conquistador Juan de Onate that stands in the espanola valley - from wiki

"in 1614, Oñate was exiled from what is now New Mexico and charged with mismanagement and excessive cruelty, especially at the Acoma massacre in Acoma. In 1599, after killing 500 warriors and 300 women and children, he ordered the right foot be chopped off of all surviving 24 Acoma warriors. Males between the ages of 12 and 25 were also enslaved for 20 years, along with all of the females above the age of 12. When King Phillip of Spain heard the news from Acoma, Oñate was brought up on 30 charges of mismanagement and excessive cruelty. He was found guilty of cruelty, immorality, and false reporting and was exiled to Spain to live out the remainder of his life. 2014 marked the 400th anniversary of Juan de Oñate's exile from New Mexico. Despite his atrocities, Oñate is still celebrated today at the Española Valley Fiestas"

This statue stands on lands surrounded by native pueblos but is celebrated by the descendants of the conquistadors regardless of the impact on how it makes the native community feel. 

This statue has had red paint thrown on it and one of its feet has been chopped off by native protestors. 

Does this statue deserve to remain until the government decides it needs to come down or should the people impacted by the statue take matters into their own hands? In some cases yes, monuments need to be taken down and if they are taken down by the people who are most offended by the actions of the person the statue is glorifying then more power to them. To pretend that statues dont have power and that they dont reflect those in power staying in power is misguided.


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## westwatercuban (May 19, 2021)

Therealjohnjohnmiller said:


> In New Mexico, there is a statue of the conquistador Juan de Onate that stands in the espanola valley - from wiki
> 
> "in 1614, Oñate was exiled from what is now New Mexico and charged with mismanagement and excessive cruelty, especially at the Acoma massacre in Acoma. In 1599, after killing 500 warriors and 300 women and children, he ordered the right foot be chopped off of all surviving 24 Acoma warriors. Males between the ages of 12 and 25 were also enslaved for 20 years, along with all of the females above the age of 12. When King Phillip of Spain heard the news from Acoma, Oñate was brought up on 30 charges of mismanagement and excessive cruelty. He was found guilty of cruelty, immorality, and false reporting and was exiled to Spain to live out the remainder of his life. 2014 marked the 400th anniversary of Juan de Oñate's exile from New Mexico. Despite his atrocities, Oñate is still celebrated today at the Española Valley Fiestas"
> 
> ...


l Still disagree. See this is all about mindsets. The monument isn’t saying that guy is a bad ass. You can view it in that capacity, however acknowledging the history for remembrance is how we can remember the past. Again, add to the monument! Expand on the story, don’t take away. You can hide all the sad shit that has happened in the world, but really you’re doing a disservice to those whose story will never be told. Censoring or erasing the past will not get us anywhere besides silencing the true victims.


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## Pinchecharlie (Jul 27, 2017)

wow he wasn’t very nice was he. I say after knowing this about him it is within reason to draw a penis with squirts coming from the pee hole on said statue. Could in good taste and karma free scribble fuck you probably too. Wow. We talk a lot about African Americans but Holly Christ the poor indeginous people of that time man…


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## Wallrat (Jan 19, 2021)

I like that his foot got chopped off…it’s very fitting.


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## BastrdSonOfElvis (Mar 24, 2005)

Therealjohnjohnmiller said:


> but is celebrated by the descendants of the conquistadors


Who are the descendants of the conquistadors?


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## carvedog (May 11, 2005)

Why does this not surprise me that this happened in Española (valley)?


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## Therealjohnjohnmiller (May 5, 2021)

BastrdSonOfElvis said:


> Who are the descendants of the conquistadors?


Most new mexicans are either native, hispanic, or mestizo which is a mix of the two. Most families in new mexico can trace their direct lineage to the spanish conquistadors who came here in the 1500-1600s.


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## gnarsify (Oct 5, 2020)

westwatercuban said:


> l Still disagree. See this is all about mindsets. The monument isn’t saying that guy is a bad ass. You can view it in that capacity, however acknowledging the history for remembrance is how we can remember the past. Again, add to the monument! Expand on the story, don’t take away. You can hide all the sad shit that has happened in the world, but really you’re doing a disservice to those whose story will never be told. Censoring or erasing the past will not get us anywhere besides silencing the true victims.


Are those dog whistles I hear?

It's not about mindsets, it's about promoting whoever is being memorialized. If you think these statues of really bad dudes need to be preserved (whether it's a conquistador or General Lee or Stonewall Jackson) because it'll "erase the past", it makes me wonder whose "past" is more important? Why don't we replace this Onate guy's statue with a statue memorializing the Acoma's who were devastated and enslaved? Why does the bust of a really bad guy get to be the way we memorialize this history? Should we build statues of school shooters so we don't "censor the past"?

The whole argument that we shouldn't remove statues of people who committed wholesale atrocities because we're censoring a portion of history is just code for "I support what this person did, and you removing it upsets me". There is not a single public statue of Hitler in Germany and Nazi symbols and propaganda are against the law, but they still remember WWII...


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## BastrdSonOfElvis (Mar 24, 2005)

Therealjohnjohnmiller said:


> Most new mexicans are either native, hispanic, or mestizo which is a mix of the two. Most families in new mexico can trace their direct lineage to the spanish conquistadors who came here in the 1500-1600s.


It would be interesting to see the geneology of various groups. I'd be surprised if "the blood of the conquistadors" didn't flow through almost everyone to some extent, save the more recent transplants. I imagine that dudes that didn't think much about murder and dismemberment were also pretty rapey. The part about "all of the females over the age of 12" being enslaved makes me think that pure natives likely are no longer a thing. And then the general mixing that occurs after hundreds of years.


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## Pinchecharlie (Jul 27, 2017)

if you where to believe in contemporary genealogy, we’re all from the same mother…or maybe 6 ? Can’t remember but it isn’t very many. So my wife who is german likes to say she’s a pure breed and me iam mostly Cuban and Spanish . We’re actually from the same hapolog mother thing? Is that right? It’s not what I just said or even close to that but kinda like that! Lol….science!!


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## Wallrat (Jan 19, 2021)

Well, I know one thing: it’s a good thing that the native Americans never fought wars with each other, never took slaves, never tortured other Indians for sport, cut their hearts out, or any of that stuff. Because that would spoil the narrative. Everyone who went to university knows that’s a trait of White folks.


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## Pinchecharlie (Jul 27, 2017)

Did you know that the racial epithet “cracker” was a reference to a guy who had a whip? Just learned that. I thought it was white like a saltine. Makes it much more offensive I think! I like saying it now! You dumb ass crackers lol. Let’s all post the most offensive human or things that are statues somewhere! I have one ! I’ll be right back!


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## Pinchecharlie (Jul 27, 2017)

Off to a good start!! Jimmy savaille. Lol


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## gravelroad (Jul 16, 2021)

King George III statue in NYC being toppled in 1776 (did they have a permission slip? Oh, they just probably blamed it on the natives painted into the scene.).


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## BastrdSonOfElvis (Mar 24, 2005)

To be faaaaiiirr…he wasn’t a historical figure at the time.


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## Uncle Steve (May 2, 2013)

The statue in question has been removed


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## dmontez (Feb 12, 2014)

Nanko said:


> There are many Asian countries including those with mere fractions of our GDP that put us to shame on the critical penis art front. Even the few Sheepeaters made some glorious dick renderings on the MFS that dazzle us to this day.
> 
> Our youth show great promise as Charlie can testify. As a country we just aren’t fostering the talent and have long since fallen behind both foe and ally in the Dick Wars. This national shame must be corrected!


Cup wig shit


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## dmontez (Feb 12, 2014)

Uncle Steve said:


> The statue in question has been removed


There is no statute on that land an near my people’s land


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## Therealjohnjohnmiller (May 5, 2021)

You all are correct, I did read that it was removed but to be fair, it was removed after it was vandalized multiple times which opened the discussion of the impact of the statue aka what we are all discussing right now.


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## GeoRon (Jun 24, 2015)

The statue was removed in 2020.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equestrian_statue_of_Juan_de_O%C3%B1ate


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)




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## westwatercuban (May 19, 2021)




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## GeoRon (Jun 24, 2015)

I'm glad that we all agree that the statue glorifying oppression of indigenous people has met it deserved fate. 

Hopefully it is being melted down for bullets to help the indigenous people of Ukraine defy their oppressors.

"To be fair", the statue is a nice bronze-work but lacks the symbology of a body of an Acoma under the falling hoof of the horse. 

Being erected in the former heartland of the Acoma I'm surprised it lasted as long as it did. Sadly. I guess cutting the feet off people has an overly long lasting impression.


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## mountain boy (Aug 20, 2021)

B4otter said:


> I think he means the Fincher party... Mountain Meadows.


Sorry, I gave the wrong name for the massacre, thanks for the heads up.


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## BastrdSonOfElvis (Mar 24, 2005)

MT4Runner said:


> View attachment 83976


Season 11 in two days! Merry Christmas!


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## BastrdSonOfElvis (Mar 24, 2005)

GeoRon said:


> Hopefully it is being melted down for bullets to help the indigenous people of Ukraine defy their oppressors.


Can’t pass up an opportunity to virtue signal, even when there’s no connection. (Btw no part of loaded ammunition is made out of bronze).


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## GeoRon (Jun 24, 2015)

BastrdSonOfElvis said:


> Can’t pass up an opportunity to virtue signal, even when there’s no connection. (Btw no part of loaded ammunition is made out of bronze).


Yes, Statues to bullets is signaling. It is metaphorical. Sorry if offended, however, I did see the connection since we'd been discussing dismantling statues glorifying oppressors and Ukraine is being oppressed. But how about the New Mexico bronze statue recast into one of Zelensky? Or is that suggestion virtue signaling also? Actually, I did like the "virtue signal" to recast it into a tribute to the local indigenous peoples.

It is all signaling on a forum. Are you signaling your virtues to gun owners based on such a minor technicality. But thank you for the info. BTW, Remington Bronze Point Bullets 30 Caliber (308 Diameter) 150 Grain. Just a technicality.


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## GeoRon (Jun 24, 2015)

I went to find out about the separation and aftermath. I enjoyed Waterman's account of what the separated had to endure just to get out of Separation Canyon.

Seeking Hard Desert Truth


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## dmontez (Feb 12, 2014)

dmontez said:


> There is no statute on that land an near my people’s land


Fuck that pe


Uncle Steve said:


> The statue in question has been removed
> [/QUOT





Nanko said:


> There are many Asian countries including those with mere fractions of our GDP that put us to shame on the critical penis art front. Even the few Sheepeaters made some glorious dick renderings on the MFS that dazzle us to this day.
> 
> Our youth show great promise as Charlie can testify. As a country we just aren’t fostering the talent and have long since fallen behind both foe and ally in the Dick Wars. This national shame must be corrected!


bullshit


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## dmontez (Feb 12, 2014)

Nanko said:


> There are many Asian countries including those with mere fractions of our GDP that put us to shame on the critical penis art front. Even the few Sheepeaters made some glorious dick renderings on the MFS that dazzle us to this day.
> 
> Our youth show great promise as Charlie can testify. As a country we just aren’t fostering the talent and have long since fallen behind both foe and ally in the Dick Wars. This national shame must be corrected!


Bullshit


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## k2andcannoli (Feb 28, 2012)

Its fun to imagine what North America would look like today if the Europeans had not ventured beyond their own lands and waters. How long do you think it would have taken the Chinese to reach the east coast? Without pack animals the peoples of the Americas where destined for conquest, there no worse "spawn point".


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## GeoRon (Jun 24, 2015)

US military academy begins removal of Confederate memorials from campus


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## mr. compassionate (Jan 13, 2006)

1984...


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## Pinchecharlie (Jul 27, 2017)

Better than the handmaids tale…!?


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## LuckyLadyBug (Feb 16, 2019)

mr. compassionate said:


> Maybe with a correct process through the government, but now by a bunch of woke, leftist dbags.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woke 
Since you don't understand the word woke, "Mr. Compassionate"


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## mr. compassionate (Jan 13, 2006)

LuckyLadyBug said:


> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woke
> Since you don't understand the word woke, "Mr. Compassionate"


Not sure your point-yes woke dumbasses tearing down statues. That's what i met and it doesn't only apply to blacks, others like you can be woke as well. Maybe you should try being awake instead.


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## LuckyLadyBug (Feb 16, 2019)

mr. compassionate said:


> Not sure your point-yes woke dumbasses tearing down statues. That's what i met and it doesn't only apply to blacks, others like you can be woke as well. Maybe you should try being awake instead.











must be hard being you


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## GeoRon (Jun 24, 2015)




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## BastrdSonOfElvis (Mar 24, 2005)

LuckyLadyBug said:


> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woke
> Since you don't understand the word woke, "Mr. Compassionate"











Elon’s take is more accurate than Wikipedia, no surprise there. 

“Woke” is an infectious disease of the mind. A pathetic need to be “hip” predisposes the host organism to infection. It’s pushed by race-baiters of various colors, all of whom have vastly more fortune than we lowly oppressors could even imagine. It’s also a dying religion. People are catching on.


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