# Grand canyon Beer strategy



## mkashzg (Aug 9, 2006)

If they fit with your rigging I would go with them. I would also recommend using duct tape around the entire length of the 12 pack or case as it is a long trip and cardboard deteriorates.


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## zbaird (Oct 11, 2003)

Have you been drinking? Not sure what your real question is. Are you talking about legal concern? If so, the ranger wont give a shit about your milk crates.


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## John_in_Loveland (Jun 9, 2011)

Buy yourself an army surplus canvas duffle. Fill it with 5 or 6 cases of beer...more or less, and put it on the rear floor of your raft. As needed, fill your drag bag every morning with cold ones, then rig on top of the duffle. It protects the cans, keeps them cold and is low maintenance all at the same time.

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## John_in_Loveland (Jun 9, 2011)

Oh...dump all the beer out of the cases and ditch the car board at home.

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## DoStep (Jun 26, 2012)

2 30-packs fit in the same frame space as a rocket box (that is not to say they fit IN the rocket box), rendering the milk crates redundant. Wrap them on all three axes with duct tape before packing. The cardboard will last, we could pick them up by the handle even toward the end of the trip. Crushed empties go in a rocket box emptied of an early day's food, or perhaps your aforementioned duffle. Bring a safe and efficient can crusher. Rock on rock is seldom efficient or safe.


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## rhigh (Feb 8, 2011)

Of course I've been drinking.
I thought I'd heard about a group turned around because the crates say "use by other than registered owner punishable by law"
I had beer packed in a old canvas duffle, tore apart mid trip. Was a bit of a problem.
The drop boxes always seem to be full of room kettle boxes etc.
Might go with grain sacks, although they start to shed white fiber after a while.
Thank you for your input


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## Gardenvalleykayaker (Jul 23, 2011)

Invite a dory with a deck, they eat all the beer as ballast. It's awesome!!!! A 1,000 or so pounds of beer in the dory, rafts don't have to carry any, and it's refrigerated by the river being the belly of the dory is below the water. Yes, inside the army duffles. Just make sure your dory captain can navigate or there goes the beer!


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## zbaird (Oct 11, 2003)

If I was worried about it, I'd paint them.


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## trevko (Jul 7, 2008)

I would not worry about it at all. If you do use them remember to put the cans in upside down. That way any sediment collects in the bottom of the can and not the top. 


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## Raft Dad (Jan 20, 2017)

All the ranger wants to see is your permit, id, required equipment and have a little chat about your future over the following two weeks. They don't care about "borrowed milk crates" , what kind of beer is in said crates or whether you've had your morning dump. Don't sweat it. Go and have an awesome trip. P.S I've used hessian coffee sacks for this very purpose but you do get a few casualties. Go with the crates


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## raftus (Jul 20, 2005)

John_in_Loveland said:


> Buy yourself an army surplus canvas duffle. Fill it with 5 or 6 cases of beer...more or less, and put it on the rear floor of your raft. As needed, fill your drag bag every morning with cold ones, then rig on top of the duffle. It protects the cans, keeps them cold and is low maintenance all at the same time.
> 
> Oh...dump all the beer out of the cases and ditch the car board at home.


How do you stop the cans from rubbing together and exploding in this setup? I've tried this before and lost about 10-15% of my beer on trips much shorter than the Grand. I would fear losing 20-25% of my beer on a grand canyon trip with the cans loose in an army bag.

For some reason the Corona cans were especially vulnerable, the Heineken cans were the strongest when they were they 'keg' type cans. 

I now duct tape my boxes on all three axis and that has worked well for me. The cardboard (sans duct tape) can be burned. Milk crates also work well. I like the idea of putting the cans upside down to help keep the sediment off.


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## John_in_Loveland (Jun 9, 2011)

raftus said:


> How do you stop the cans from rubbing together and exploding in this setup? I've tried this before and lost about 10-15% of my beer on trips much shorter than the Grand. I would fear losing 20-25% of my beer on a grand canyon trip with the cans loose in an army bag.
> 
> For some reason the Corona cans were especially vulnerable, the Heineken cans were the strongest when they were they 'keg' type cans.
> 
> I now duct tape my boxes on all three axis and that has worked well for me. The cardboard (sans duct tape) can be burned. Milk crates also work well. I like the idea of putting the cans upside down to help keep the sediment off.


That's interesting because I have had maybe one can break on multiple trips. They are on the floor and not subject to any kind of real abuse either from the raft or passengers. The duffle is also made of an extremely heavy duty cotton canvas.


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## Fruita Boater (Jan 15, 2015)

*Two weeks beer in 3 ammo cans*

So glad you made me think about this most important topic: beer packing for those two week trips. I'm assuming you already have a cooler full of good food with some premium/standard beers & are looking for supplementary space/packing for beer. Really it comes down to: how many beers do you (honestly) think you'll drink a day? The 20, 30 or 40 MM Ammo Cans, inmho, are all good bets for storage. 30 mm ammo can is approx. 17" X 8.75" X 14" & is actually larger than the 20 or 40 mm cans volume wise. 30 mm cans provide good protection for the cargo and great places for the crushed cans later, don't forget the plastic mallet. However, each 30 ammo can is about $40-50 and 20 lbs when empty, so there's some money & weight consideration vs say milk crates. 

It seems like a 30 pack fits well in a 30mm rocket, give or take. Let's say you drink 4-6 beers per day for 14 days + 20% for giving away to fellow travelers or for "extra-allowances" we'll say, gives you 67-100 beers. 3 ammo cans, would give you about 90 beers worth. If packed correctly, your precious cargo will be protected from impact & involuntary shotgunning sessions! Although, maybe you want those involuntary sessions anyway? I don't know. Bring a small day cooler & fill a few inches with cold river water (once your ice runs out) or bring your drag bag (do pull it up before going through rapids though). The only better thing than 3 ammo cans is, of course, a second cooler full of just cold beer (I just like saying 'cooler full of just cold beer '  ) or, if you can't do that but means and space still permit, a dry box full of beer. Have fun weighing the options and have fun on the trip! 
cheers & syotr


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## TonyK (Jul 20, 2010)

raftus said:


> How do you stop the cans from rubbing together and exploding in this setup? I've tried this before and lost about 10-15% of my beer on trips much shorter than the Grand. I would fear losing 20-25% of my beer on a grand canyon trip with the cans loose in an army bag.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Corona, Heineken? The thread is about how to carry beer not mineral water. In my kayak I carry cans and crush them with my heel.


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## climbdenali (Apr 2, 2006)

I like using minimal duct tape- that is, not coating the box all around. Then I stack them in a drop bag as efficiently as possible, followed by emptying some cases into the drop bag to fill any extra spaces. Never had more than about 2% breakage this way.

I've moved away from rocket boxes for storage, other than groover. They weigh 25 lbs empty, and hold only about 5gal of stuff. I've started using crates for things that can get wet (canned goods with labels removed, for example). I just can't stomach an extra 100-200 pounds of "nothing" being on my boat- that's a passenger! In fact, a rocket box and a 30 pack of beer weigh the same!!


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## B4otter (Apr 20, 2009)

Actually, 20mm (standard "rocket box") weighs just over 17 pounds, a 30mm (the "extra wide" version) is just under 20#. 
IMO, packing beer in ammo cans is overkill and just makes it harder to get to... 
Time-honored and -tested formula for just about any river trip is "...a beer a mile." 
I'll share, but I'm not going to run out...
And, "of course I've been drinking" is a given - you can't row efficiently unless/without...
For Grand trips, I've rigged 5 or 6 thirty packs (= 150 or 180 miles) without any duct tape or reinforcement of cardboard down on rear "beaver" board and the other three in dry box or under front hatch. You can fill spaces in "second half" stuff with individual beers, if that is a hatch or box or bag you won't get into for awhile don't hold back to pad out as full as possible.
Got "de-beerdyrated" once - back in the 70's kayaking - won't ever happen again...


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## climbdenali (Apr 2, 2006)

B4otter said:


> Actually, 20mm (standard "rocket box") weighs just over 17 pounds, a 30mm (the "extra wide" version) is just under 20#.


Not sure about that. I am wrong about them weighing 25lb, but I don't think they're quite 17lb light. Not trying to nit-pick, I just always want to have a clear picture of what I'm really hauling across the country and down rivers, so I looked around for some sources.

I now believe they're more like 19+lb:









OR:

Weighing a Rocket Box (Skip to 3m15s)

In any case, if I dedicated even 1 bay to rocket storage at 17lb each that's still 102 lbs. of steel along for the ride.

Agree with you that rockets are overkill for beer (and just about everything else, too), and that getting debeerdrated is a terrible thing!


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## tripple (Nov 4, 2010)

*.02*

My .02 on beer for the grand.

1)Make sure to stock up on our local favorites close to home. Sure I stocked up on the sweet micros before leaving town but try and buy a Rainer tall boy in southern ID and you realize how valuable your local swill is.

2) When you see weird schwanky swill, just buy it. For some reason Stella Artois sells these over priced 4 packs. Well, got two of them for no good reason until I realized I had one of those fancy wine drinkers as my 2nd mate. Happened to be kinda a big deal in the real estate market. Pulled one of those suckers out once a day before camp so he could wet his whistle on something civilized. Kinda nice to buy a house without that 3% fee. Just saying you never know what your passenger may like...

3)Prepare for the unexpected. Had some middle age (okay more late aged but had the bolt-ons and free spirit clothing standards to make them seem younger) gals that had a NO sugar dietary needs. All fine and good until they realized how good Bud Light Lime tastes at river temp. Never under estimate that. Beer flavor at river temp! They would not touch anything else. Bro and I had planned for these to be our late trip stash when we were done with all the goods. We find these two rooting through our CANVAS MILITARY BAGS to stock their drags with over sugared wheat juice like hummers to 3:1 feeding water. And they were hiking out half way! Never thought I would give a rats rear end about Bud Light but we had a little talk about rationing and personal space. I think it may have been the first time boobs couldn't cash their checks.

4) Always be the person to set out the recycled can bag. It can be canvas or a box but a couple things make this a family secret. 
Cans can be washed out and therefore don't smell. 
Cans can be crushed and therefore smaller than they originally were.
Both of these points make them better than garbage and therefore when you become the recycling boat, you are not the garbage boat.

Words for the wise.


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## seldomseen_mark (May 1, 2016)

We just used heavy duty mesh bags which were about the size of a duffle bag, filled them up and tethered them to the raft and threw it in the water. It floated and was kept cold. 

As a rapid approached, pull it in the raft, quickly secure it. Once the drop was over throw it overboard again. 

That's one of many ways.


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## Duce (Sep 5, 2011)

[QUOTE=B4otter;Time-honored and -tested formula for just about any river trip is "...a beer a mile." 
I'll share, but I'm not going to run out...
And, "of course I've been drinking" is a given - you can't row efficiently unless/without...

Mic-Drop..


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## gcbighorn (Aug 12, 2016)

Gardenvalleykayaker said:


> Invite a dory with a deck, they eat all the beer as ballast. It's awesome!!!! A 1,000 or so pounds of beer in the dory, rafts don't have to carry any, and it's refrigerated by the river being the belly of the dory is below the water. Yes, inside the army duffles. Just make sure your dory captain can navigate or there goes the beer!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Mountain Buzz


Yes, dory hatches are awesome for conveniently storing beer and other beverages at river temperature. Also great for fruit and vegies in crates.Your beer will be safe in a dory. You will not need to worry about the dory captain drinking on the river, as he/she will be way too focused on getting a beautiful boat through the Canyon without any mishaps!


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## Schutzie (Feb 5, 2013)

Beer is ballast.
One cannot have enough ballast.
Storage of beer is a personal choice, whether in coolers, bags, boxes, or allowed to float freely in the bottom of the boat. Schutzie prefers a method that provides safe carriage but ready access.

If there are Kayakers about the best policy is to remember;
"It does not do to leave a kayaker out of your calculations if one is on your trip."
Kayakers will shamelessly steal beer.
Kayakers will take the last beer while complaining it is not their preferred brand.
Besides armed guards the only reliable protection is a well concealed dead fall.
Deadfalls are legal when employed to defend beer stocks from kayakers.

Burlap bags impart a flavor to beer that is undesirable. No amount of washing of the container before the beer is opened will change that.

A true guide will drink any beer, any temperature, in any condition, at any time, regardless of circumstance.
Everyone else will prefer wine in a glass with a side of cheese and little crackers.


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## Schutzie (Feb 5, 2013)

Beer is ballast. Remember that. 
For some reason burlap imparts a taste to beer that is objectionable even when one is drunk.
If you use a duffle bag make very sure your cans are well smashed before you put them in there; they will fill with water and make the perfect hidden hard object to break one's toes on.
If there are Kayakers lurking about you must always remember; they consider it appropriate to steal beer and they will take the last one, bitching it isn't their brand.


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## DanOrion (Jun 8, 2004)

Schutzie said:


> If there are Kayakers lurking about you must always remember; they consider it appropriate to steal beer and they will take the last one, bitching it isn't their brand.


truth


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## TonyK (Jul 20, 2010)

DanOrion said:


> truth




On my first long kayak trip rafters gave me beer every night. Each evening I had a different IPA. Tonight I'll raise a glass to them - thanks!

(Is this a convention - rafters giving beer to kayaker? Some sort of medieval homage thing?)


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## Schutzie (Feb 5, 2013)

No, not homage. Bribery. But it doesn't work; Kayakers will still steal beer at every opportunity


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## ptwood (May 4, 2004)




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## TonyK (Jul 20, 2010)

Could you send your lat/long and I'll paddle right over. These crossover kayaks have plenty of space for other people's beer. (IPAS please).

To actually add to the thread I froze 6-8 cans of beer last year. Then put them into a saucepan of water in the freezer, of just the right size for a cooler/drybag. My buddy froze 8 steaks and then I dropped the cylinder of ice/beer into the cooler bag + steaks + dry ice and first 4 days in the Green all was good - by then we'd finished it all. My crossover kayak (Jackson Karma Traverse can carry about 300lb including me).


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## B4otter (Apr 20, 2009)

ptwood, looks like you have a little extra - I'll be happy to carry 'em for 'ya... can just leave in the rushes there @ the Ferry, I'll catch ya' soon... 'course, beer mice been known to have gotten into beer on my boat. Seems to happen towards the end of trips for some reason...


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## duct tape (Aug 25, 2009)

Gardenvalleykayaker said:


> Invite a dory with a deck, they eat all the beer as ballast. It's awesome!!!! A 1,000 or so pounds of beer in the dory, rafts don't have to carry any, and it's refrigerated by the river being the belly of the dory is below the water. Yes, inside the army duffles. Just make sure your dory captain can navigate or there goes the beer!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Mountain Buzz


I have one, invite me! Beer will be kept safe and cool, possibly close to the same number as originally loaded. No promises about captain skills though.

Jon


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## smhoeher (Jun 14, 2015)

I used a plastic laundry bag I "borrowed" from Alsco and kept it in a net hanging under my seat. I also had a day drag bag for quick access. My first trip on the Grand was in July and the temp reached 115 every day but the H2O never got much over 50. I had cold beer until the end.


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## DoStep (Jun 26, 2012)

This was plenty for 8 ppl 22 days to to Pearce...


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## B4otter (Apr 20, 2009)

Fortunately - for everyone - I wasn't on your trip...


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