# November release Arkansas River



## lmyers

So, there have been rumors flying for a month that there is going to be a release of 1200 cfs for 2 days in November in order for REP to do a hydrologic study of the Silver Bullet before beginning redesign work.

Can anyone confirm or deny this? I was told by someone who said they heard it directly from Rob White's (AHRA manager) mouth....but at the same time I heard yesterday that Roy Vaughn (BOR water manager) told the Arkansas River Outfitter's Association at their last meeting that it isn't going to happen... Any additional information would be greatly appreciated.

On an unrelated note, the AHRA has completed improvements to the Grassy Knoll access site. They cut back a bunch of bushes and installed a fence post staircase down to the river making it significantly easier to carry a boat in and out.


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## Peev

I've heard the same thing from reliable sources. But I cannot confirm. 1200 is going to feel huge in November!

Kara? Anyone?


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## lmyers

Silver Bullet rapid re-do ready to start in November - The Chaffee County Times: Free Content

It is an interesting article, but says nothing of a release. At this point I'm guessing it's not going to happen. I was doubtful any way. The fishermen would have had a fit, it likely would have washed away the trout spawning.


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## AHRA

We are planning to release about 1000 cfs in mid November once the Silver Bullet rebuild is completed. I will post an exact date once we are a little closer to the completion of the project.


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## lmyers

Awesome, thank you! Please let us know as soon as you guys figure out dates... I want to make sure I take those days off from work. Good luck with the rebuild.


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## Dave Frank

I suppose weekend dates would be asking for too much?


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## Andy H.

No kidding, Dave, a 1000 cfs weekend release on the Ark in November would be sweet!


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## lmyers

I'm pretty sure a 1000 cfs release puts the target flow for the Silver Bullet around 1200, which would likely correlate to 1300+ in Browns. A fantastic flow for anytime of the year. Hopefully the weather isn't too nasty when they decide to open the gate...


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## Osseous

And AHRA- how about the trout? 

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## mikesee

Osseous said:


> And AHRA- how about the trout?
> 
> Sent from my SM-N900V using Mountain Buzz mobile app


Subscribed.


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## thaGoat

+1 for a weekend release. HA!


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## Andy H.

Imagine all boaters flocking to the Ark Valley and the economic boost provided for a weekend when it's normally dead down there....


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## Randaddy

Andy H. said:


> Imagine all boaters flocking to the Ark Valley and the economic boost provided for a weekend when it's normally dead down there....


Sounds terrible. I suggest releasing mid-week and not announcing the release at all. Just let it out and let the locals that check flows have the Ark to themselves for once! Rangers will be done for the season in November. Do we really want a bunch of Front Rangers getting their boats pinned at frigid temperatures without the AHRA rescue team around?


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## Andy H.

Randaddy said:


> Sounds terrible. I suggest releasing mid-week and not announcing the release at all. Just let it out and let the locals that check flows have the Ark to themselves for once! Rangers will be done for the season in November. Do we really want a bunch of Front Rangers getting their boats pinned at frigid temperatures without the AHRA rescue team around?


I trolled, you took the bait. Who in their right mind would actually associate any kind of economic benefits from a bunch of dirtbag boaters dedicated enough to come to the Ark Valley in November to boat?


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## miker

keep me informed.


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## Randaddy

Andy H. said:


> I trolled, you took the bait. Who in their right mind would actually associate any kind of economic benefits from a bunch of dirtbag boaters dedicated enough to come to the Ark Valley in November to boat?


A few hundred beers, ten tanks of gas, and a campsite fee or two. It might double BV's economy for November. ..

I'll post if I wash my car this month so you can come up and catch the runoff. ; (


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## Phil U.

Well.... The release will be nice. And I spose a weekend release all the better. But we ain't dead down here. There's 280 cfs in the Numbers this morning and its gonna be in the 70s this afternoon. You'd have to really work at it not to have a good time on the rio today. For those that would like to join an awesome local community for a day of riding, running, boating and partying, next weekend is the second annual Day of the Dead celebration here in BV. 

https://www.facebook.com/events/366230210218305/


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## tommycolorado

which begs the question to AHRA: Are you looking for some beta testers for Silver Bullet version 3.0?


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## Pro Leisure

I'll be looking for the announcement, thanks AHRA!


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## pinemnky13

AHRA said:


> We are planning to release about 1000 cfs in mid November once the Silver Bullet rebuild is completed. I will post an exact date once we are a little closer to the completion of the project.


Im in


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## DoubleYouEss

Maybe it can be my birthday present...


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## yesimapirate

November 11th is Veteran's Day. ....just sayin.


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## stupka

Christmas for Thanksgiving. Bring on the water!


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## rivervibe

Yay! Cold water!


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## SKeen

Let it flow! I am hoping for enough advance notice to take some time off work for this one.


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## gunnerman

Logan, please do keep us all informed on this event and lets have a party. I've been doing my best to come up with a catchy phrase for this event. So here they are: Silver Bullet Event Fest (SBE Fest), Silver Bullet Flow Fest (SBF Fest), or November Grand Fest on the Ark. I decided on Grand cause they are planning on around 1000 cfs. So get together with Phil and figure this thing out. Lets pray for that Indian-type warm weather in Nov. to show up. I'm sure there will be a boat-load of people coming.


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## GratefulOne

Flo-vember Fest!!! or Fall Flow Fest!


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## Salidaboater

I think that is impossible with the Brown Trout Spawn that is going on. With my boating hat on I would love it.

But I'm also a fisherman and the Ark is now Gold Medal they can't do anything to mess that up. Browns spawn in the shallow sandy areas and it would destroy their spawning habitat. So my guess is no way.


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## tommycolorado

Really? Don't chill my stoke!! Just got a drysuit for the release, ready for beta testing bullet v3.0. Anyone from AHRA wanna clarify?


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## Phil U.

From a reliable source (solid gossip)... 1,000cfs on both the 15th and the 16th. That is a Sat and a Sun.


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## Blade&Shaft

Wow! If the pass is open and this really happens I'll see all yall there!!


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## Rockgizmo

Of course it will be! The weekend I'm at a wedding. 


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## bobbuilds

Phil U. said:


> From a reliable source (solid gossip)... 1,000cfs on both the 15th and the 16th. That is a Sat and a Sun.


boom baby!!!!!

Im throwin' switch freewheels off the bullet and cartwheeling all the way to the muffin!!!!!

ok, excessive, but i am running that shit till the sun goes down!!!


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## BrianK

Anyone have any idea how long it would take the water to get to the royal gorge? 

Also (warning - this is a dumb question) the release would be above the numbers correct?


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## rivervibe

About a day. And yes, it will be above Pine Creek and the Numbers. 


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## yesimapirate

Not that reliable gossip isn't good info, but any concrete dates posted yet?


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## Theophilus

Salidaboater said:


> I think that is impossible with the Brown Trout Spawn that is going on. With my boating hat on I would love it.
> 
> But I'm also a fisherman and the Ark is now Gold Medal they can't do anything to mess that up. Browns spawn in the shallow sandy areas and it would destroy their spawning habitat. So my guess is no way.


 More management of an non-native invasive species at the expense of the other user groups. One day maybe we can let well enough alone and just let nature take it's course.


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## AW-Evan

I like to kayak in November...


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## DoubleYouEss

Do we have an approximation on the flows, I am seeing anywhere from 1,000 to 4,000cfs rumors flying around.

As much I would love to see 4k roaring through the Ark, I really don't want to play boat/gear clean up all weekend...


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## Randaddy

BrianK said:


> Also (warning - this is a dumb question) the release would be above the numbers correct?


That is a dumb question considering your sworn oath to never again run The Numbers, which you have claimed is "worse than a needle in the eye."

Of course there's a guest room and hot coffee for you in Leadville if you've changed your mind about this.  And yes, the releases come from above the Numbers.


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## lmyers

DoubleYouEss said:


> Do we have an approximation on the flows, I am seeing anywhere from 1,000 to 4,000cfs rumors flying around.
> 
> As much I would love to see 4k roaring through the Ark, I really don't want to play boat/gear clean up all weekend...
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Mountain Buzz


According to the AHRA's post they are going to release 1000 cfs on top of native flows. I haven't got a confirmation of dates or flows yet, but I will inquire about specifics at the 25th anniversary celebration on Friday.


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## Osseous

Theophilus said:


> More management of an non-native invasive species at the expense of the other user groups. One day maybe we can let well enough alone and just let nature take it's course.


"Invasive"?

You willing to see all the wildlife go away, or just the ones you don't care about? If you want to re-establish Cutthroat you're gonna see far more strict and disruptive water management practices than you are "suffering" now.

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## henrylightcap

If we were to "let nature take its course" what would the flows be like November 15th. How about the voluntary flow program, doesn't that benefit boaters. Playparks? Hell, the grand canyon probably would have a lot of unrunnable days if it weren't for the dam.


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## benR

I'm planning on boating Saturday only, and the opportunity to run Browns without a constant stream of commercial rafts will be my first choice. Hopefully we end up with an exact time when they plan to turn on the release so we can approximate when the flow will hit the different sections (for example, it sounds like flows probably won't hit Royal Gorge on Saturday). I assume we'll have more details in the next few days. Looking forward to it!


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## Theophilus

Osseous said:


> "Invasive"?
> 
> You willing to see all the wildlife go away, or just the ones you don't care about? If you want to re-establish Cutthroat you're gonna see far more strict and disruptive water management practices than you are "suffering" now.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N900V using Mountain Buzz mobile app


Want to see anglers really cry like rats eating onions lets talk about putting otters back in the river and I still remember plenty of days of 600 CFS in Eleven Mile Canyon before it was "managed" exclusively for fish and pissed away year round a 100 CFS at a time. BTW - The Browns in Eleven Mile were doing just fine when I was catching them. The powers that control those flows will now never agree to giving even one weekend a year to recreational boaters. 

The Ark is being managed with angling as its top priority and it is what it is. The private boating community in our state has no voice and Wildlife runs the show not Parks.


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## BrianK

Randaddy said:


> That is a dumb question considering your sworn oath to never again run The Numbers, which you have claimed is "worse than a needle in the eye."


I have to say that I made two separate trips to run the numbers this summer, and enjoyed myself both times. When/if I made the above statement I may have been exaggerating. It's a fun run.

I have problems with the Numbers, but we don't have the time or space to go into them here. 

Also, I can't complain about November boating opportunities.


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## henrylightcap

"Plenty of days of 600 cfs in 11 mile before it was managed exclusively for fish" Come on Scott, you've been boating since 2008 how many times in that 6 years was 11 mile really running at 600 cfs? Let lone, how many times did you run it at 600cfs? Do you think the fact that it hasn't run that high recently has anything to do with the drought we've had or maybe Denver Water or both? If your "institutional memory" went back for 15, 20 or maybe even 50 years, you might have some valid points.


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## Osseous

I've been fly fishing for more than 40 years- I cannot recall encountering one other fly fisherman who would not be stoked to see otters on the river. Not one. The Ark is a multi-use resource and it is managed as a multi-use resource. I enjoy it that way and take advantage of its many moods, different levels and different seasons.

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## rivervibe

So does anyone have real dates for the release yet? 

Also, higher the better. Let many of the fish be washed down to Pueblo. If there are fewer fishermen turn out along the banks next summer it will be better for my boating. Conversely, if the same number still come to the Ark and then are all sad and morose because they couldn't kill or maim as many things as they had hoped maybe they will then spend more money drinking their sorrows away in town. Now that would actually help the local economy.


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## DoubleYouEss

It's looking (all things considered) to be the 15-16th...


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## skico

Looks like typhoon Nuri off Alaska will put a huge drop in temps by next weekend if it does happen to release on the 15th-16th. Storm is so powerful models are pointing to a downward shift in the jet stream and impact Colorado temps. Damn I wish I had a drysuit.


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## lmyers

rivervibe said:


> So does anyone have real dates for the release yet?
> 
> Also, higher the better. Let many of the fish be washed down to Pueblo. If there are fewer fishermen turn out along the banks next summer it will be better for my boating. Conversely, if the same number still come to the Ark and then are all sad and morose because they couldn't kill or maim as many things as they had hoped maybe they will then spend more money drinking their sorrows away in town. Now that would actually help the local economy.


Dang, that's a pretty negative attitude Alan. I like to fish, and I respect the fish. When I catch one I am very gentle with it and release it alive. I know a lot of out of state fishermen are rough on the wildlife, but you shouldn't base your opinion of fishermen on them. Most of the people I know that have been boating for more than a few years have respect for, and partake in multiple recreational pursuits. I can understand and appreciate Scott's concerns for the river being managed more for fishermen, but there are opportunities available to discuss these concerns with the park managers and potentially alter the way things are handled through the still ongoing management plan revisions.


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## restrac2000

lmyers said:


> Dang, that's a pretty negative attitude Alan. I like to fish, and I respect the fish. When I catch one I am very gentle with it and release it alive. I know a lot of out of state fishermen are rough on the wildlife, but you shouldn't base your opinion of fishermen on them. Most of the people I know that have been boating for more than a few years have respect for, and partake in multiple recreational pursuits. I can understand and appreciate Scott's concerns for the river being managed more for fishermen, but there are opportunities available to discuss these concerns with the park managers and potentially alter the way things are handled through the still ongoing management plan revisions.


Fisherman and rafter here as well. Definitely don't torture fish. Heck I prefer wild native populations over hatchery fish as well. Never seen someone torture fish for sport myself. Most fisherman I know are ardent conservationist and ecologically minded (though I few I know want to horde and develop rivers just for them). 

Wish I had the gas $$ for a November run on the Ark. My wife would love to hop in her IK another time before the end of the year.

Phillip


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## psu96

rivervibe said:


> So does anyone have real dates for the release yet?
> 
> Also, higher the better. Let many of the fish be washed down to Pueblo. If there are fewer fishermen turn out along the banks next summer it will be better for my boating. Conversely, if the same number still come to the Ark and then are all sad and morose because they couldn't kill or maim as many things as they had hoped maybe they will then spend more money drinking their sorrows away in town. Now that would actually help the local economy.


typical, move to the area a few years ago and you know what's best. doesn't sound like the salida vibe I know


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## AHRA

*Update*

Construction has begun on the Silver Bullet Boat Chute. A date has yet to be determine for the release. Also the amount of water that will be released is still unknown. We are working to get this all figured out and we will post as soon as we know.


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## Phil U.

AHRA said:


> Construction has begun on the Silver Bullet Boat Chute. A date has yet to be determine for the release. Also the amount of water that will be released is still unknown. We are working to get this all figured out and we will post as soon as we know.


Thanks for this. I just got on here to say that after talking to several AHRA peeps today at the anniversary event in Salida that the gossip I reported earlier in this thread was part of a conversation of possibilities and not the final decision. Sorry for feeding the rumor mill info that wasn't as accurate as I thought.


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## lmyers

Thanks for the updates folks. Nice event today too by the way. All the kids seemed to have fun and the speakers were good.


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## tommycolorado

Thanks for keeping us posted. As long as we have a few days advance notice on the release, I'll be boat ready!


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## DoubleYouEss

Any word on this? I know that I have a small contingent ready to roll when the gates open...


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## jmacn

Weekend is coming in hot. Curious minds in NAZ want to know as well...


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## lmyers

It doesn't sound like its going to be this weekend. Word is the AHRA is going to issue a press release concerning the matter today. I am heading out now for the Citizen's Task Force meeting and will report back with any additional details.


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## tommycolorado

Not this weekend? Good. Didn't feel like rigging my boat in a blizzard. Will ski the freshies instead!


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## Phil U.

OK. Posting this at Logan's (lmyers) request. I would expect Andrew (AHRA) to have something to say right off here but getting the word out as quickly as possible. Logan is at the CTF meeting in Salida and this is what he sent me.

"Release will begin coming up in 200 cfs segments on the 24th. Looking to run 1200 at Wellsville all day the 26th then drop it back to 500-600 by the end of the day on the 28th." 

"This schedule is set. It came directly from Rob White."


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## paulk

Does this mean ~1000 to 1200 in numbers too or is this below there.


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## yesimapirate

Several questions come to mind - How am I gonna get the turkey fryer to stay upright and not slosh around through Canyon Doors? Is hot peanut oil with a flame below it really a fire hazard if there's water all around it? At what temperature will that oil melt/burn thru PVC???


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## Theophilus

Darn it I'll be kayaking at home in the PNW that week. Have fun!!


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## jaffy

This is supposed to be to test a new boat chute at BV right? Wellsville is pretty far downstream of BV...


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## lmyers

Wellsville is just the gauge they use during the winter because many are turned off, and its basically halfway down the "headwaters". Rob said they will release (I'm assuming from Twin Lakes, yes above Numbers) 200 cfs in the morning and another 200 cfs in the afternoon on the 24th, then the same process on the 25th, which with native flow should put approximately 1000 cfs in the Numbers and Silver Bullet with 1100+ in Browns and 12-1300 in the Gorge. They plan to continue this flow through the day on the 26th and start ramping down in 200 cfs increments on the 27th ultimately stopping somewhere around 500 CFS at Wellsville on the 28th which is target winter flow for awhile. 

Rob did say he could use a few test boaters to go along with his staff, but didn't specify how many or how to contact him. I will inquire about that this evening.

Nice little Thanksgiving treat!


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## lmyers

Also worth noting, Rob said that both his primary fishery biologists told him that by doing the release in increments like this, and the fact that it will be this late in November should have minimal negative impacts on the trout.


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## AHRA

*Update*

Here is the release schedule as of 11/14. I don't see this changing, but nothing is set in stone.

Wednesday Nov 19th add 100 cfs 
Thursday Nov 20th add 100 cfs
Monday Nov 24th add 100 cfs in the morning and add 200 more cfs in the afternoon
Tuesday Nov 25th add 100 cfs in the morning and add 200 more cfs in the afternoon

This will be a total of 800 cfs, we are predicting the flows to be 1000 cfs at the Silver Bullet and 1200 cfs a the Wellsville Gauge.

The ramp down is not set in stone yet, but this is what we think it will look like.

Wednesday Nov 26th reduce by 100 cfs at noon and another 100 cfs at 4pm

After Wednesday we are into the holiday and there may be an additional 200 cfs taken out on Friday the 28th. The rest of the flow reduction will occur on Monday Dec 1st 200 cfs a day until we are back to the beginning flows.


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## lmyers

Thanks Andrew. Is the target, post release flow going to be native, or will it go straight into the winter flows? Appreciate the update. Breaking it down even more into 100 CFS increments will probably be even better for the fish...


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## AHRA

The flows should return to approximately what we have now.


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## Mike Hartley

*Ice?*

Anyone know what the ice situation is in Browns or the Gorge?


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## lmyers

Hiked into the beginning of Browns today, no ice. I was at Pine Creek yesterday and there was a little ice, but nothing too significant. I imagine the release will blow the little bit that has formed out pretty quick.


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## DoubleYouEss

It won't matter what the ice situation is, it'll all be blown out when the water comes up...


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