# The Perched River, or could the end of Cataract Canyon become not navigable with nowhere to takeout?



## Shaft (Aug 7, 2017)

Until recently I had no idea that the Colorado River just past the mouth of the Dirty Devil was hundreds of feet northwest and 140 feet higher than the historic river location/elevation before Powell reservoir and the "Dominy Formation" of silt. Could a Pearce Ferry style rapid appear upriver from the North Wash "ramp"?

The Dirty Devil drains about 4,300 square miles, could a large rain/melt event force debris out of the mouth steering the Colorado towards its historic channel leaving North Wash high and dry like Hite's boat ramp?

I don't know the answers, but the good folks over at Returning Rapids of Cataract Canyon have been presenting some facts, they recently released a presentation based on this area and the interesting changes wrought by the reservoir and resulting sediment. It's worth a read and my opinion is that this volunteer effort could use our support. (I'm not affiliated though I may donate/volunteer.)









A Cataract Take-out website version.pdf







drive.google.com





I have only been to the North Wash boat ramp on a river trip twice, including last year when it was in great shape after grading and very usable three years ago. If I manage to hitch a ride again this spring, I know that everybody on that trip will be prepared to go all the way to Bullfrog because some rigs are too big to carry if North Wash is a mess.

The Returning Rapids effort has been brought up before on this site last summer but that was before their website and excellent trip reports:








Cataract Canyon: Returning Rapids


If you have about an hour to burn this presentation is very interesting and well done. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lFfUbEuj6Q On a side note if you are doing a fall Cat trip I've never been and would be interested in joining up with a group with a motor. Have equipment, boat, truck...




www.mountainbuzz.com





(Apologies for the clickbait post title.)


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## Electric-Mayhem (Jan 19, 2004)

As the silt is eroded down, the rapids will certainly continue to return. In what form they will return is hard to say but my gut feeling says they will return more to what they were before and not something new like Pearce Ferry.

Pearce is a bit of an anomoly since it was never there before the silt deposits. As the river cut down through the silt it took a different path then it did before the dams and ended up hitting the Conglomerate bar that created Pearce Ferry Rapid. My understanding is that it used to go far to river right against the side of the mountains.

The topography of Cataract is a much different. The area around Pearce is wide open and while the lake was in that area it was quite wide. There are some wide points in Cataract too, but nothing like the Pearce Ferry area. I did a trip last year and I didn't see any indication that any major re-channeling of the river has or will occur.

So, slowly and steadily...the rapids will return. Side canyon floods and the debris they bring with them always have potential to bring rapids or make small ones bigger...but I wouldn't think the receding lake and the silt erosion should play too big a part in that. 

As the lake continues to fluctuate and that environment changes, they'll definitely have to keep adjusting the Dirty Devil takeout. I would imagine that, if the Dirty Devil take out becomes unusable they would come up with another option. Seems to me they could add to the Hite Marina ramp to get it to current lake level but its hard to justify for the amount of use it would get from just river runners taking out.

I agree that the returning rapids project deserves support...whether its contributing data and documentation or financially helping the main group of people doing so.


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## GeoRon (Jun 24, 2015)

I was at North Wash ramp in late October. We loaded three boats directly onto trailers. I was knee deep in mud at times fishing for sandals that were sucked off. We needed younger "volunteers", but even on Medicare I was about the youngest except for my SO. "Hey Sweetie, go out there knee deep" and deal with this. It just wouldn't work out right.

I need to read/examine the evidence but a takeout near Hite could become tough in the near future if the reservoir level drops much more.

Thank you "Shaft" for posting us.


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## Bootboy (Aug 25, 2020)

Th gradient simply isn’t there once you reach the Hite area. The last 20 miles of cataract are very flat, and they were that way before the reservoir. The river bed In that are is already down near its original level. As was stated above, the river has much less space to re-channel as the lake drops. Any rapids that would develop would quickly receded up canyon and wash out. For this to happen, the lake would have to drop faster than the silt is deposited, thus creating a gradient.


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## B4otter (Apr 20, 2009)

The OP's point doesn't seem to have been taken: the North Wash takeout is NOT on the original channel of the river, and as the reservoir fluctuates - and in current drought conditions, likely doesn't return to "normal" elevations of ca. 3600 feet ("fasl" - feet above sea level in the report) - you end up with what they call a "perched river" that could create a Paiute Falls situation. 

I've been running Cat since 1976 and try to go several times a year (until last year... and while I didn't go, according to the data in the report it saw the most private users since 2017 - wonder why?!!!). I've several times taken out at Hite when the traffic at North Wash meant waiting hours (talk about "ramp etiquette"... no shit show like that circus, dozens of boats spread all over mud and semi-mud bars, stuck vehicles, etc.). Not gonna' reveal how you do that, but the bottom line of the report is there's only two solutions: improve North Wash (with a jetty to keep improvements useable) OR extend Hite ramp (which would have to go well over a couple hundred yards and might not be useable for power boats since the gradient isn't enough to launch...).

Agreed the rapids in Cat will return to pretty much what was there before the damn dam (wish I could live long enough to run Dark Canyon!) but the flatwater section might be significantly altered by the Dominy Formation below Mille Crag Bend (Narrow Canyon) and especially below the White Canyon bridge (where the airstrip is). Which could have big implications for takeout, especially if reservoir levels drop and stay mostly below 3550 "fasl." Take a look at the photos of the takeout in 2013. I ran a trip in April and again in September that year and both times it was hours and hours of mud slog to get gear to where we coould load it into vehicles. 

The conveyor belt option is not mentioned but gets my vote...


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## Shaft (Aug 7, 2017)

In this part of the video linked from the Buzz post back in July from theusualsuspect, the Returning Rapids guys mention that a possible solution is returning the river to its original channel 140+ feet below the current height of the North Wash ramp and extending the ramp at Hite. Based upon my amateur grasp of geography and hydrology, I tend to agree. This would be a full-on civil engineering project that the powers that be (Bu-Rec?, Glen Canyon NRA?) might write-off as unnecessary because the reservoir level _may_ rise again and cover everything with silt.

I'm sure that interests at Hite would like to see the ramp extended given that they could once again be a working marina even if it is just for river trips. _When_ (if?) the reservoir level is higher, Hite could be the closest marina to Salt Lake/Denver where you could launch your plush-ass houseboat on Powell. Commercial Cataract operators would probably appreciate a concrete ramp for their takeout that isn't Halls or Bullfrog. (I don't have a dog in this fight other than being a part of a private group that continues to want to run Cat...)


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## Electric-Mayhem (Jan 19, 2004)

B4otter said:


> The OP's point doesn't seem to have been taken: the North Wash takeout is NOT on the original channel of the river, and as the reservoir fluctuates - and in current drought conditions, likely doesn't return to "normal" elevations of ca. 3600 feet ("fasl" - feet above sea level in the report) - you end up with what they call a "perched river" that could create a Paiute Falls situation.
> 
> I've been running Cat since 1976 and try to go several times a year (until last year... and while I didn't go, according to the data in the report it saw the most private users since 2017 - wonder why?!!!). I've several times taken out at Hite when the traffic at North Wash meant waiting hours (talk about "ramp etiquette"... no shit show like that circus, dozens of boats spread all over mud and semi-mud bars, stuck vehicles, etc.). Not gonna' reveal how you do that, but the bottom line of the report is there's only two solutions: improve North Wash (with a jetty to keep improvements useable) OR extend Hite ramp (which would have to go well over a couple hundred yards and might not be useable for power boats since the gradient isn't enough to launch...).
> 
> ...


Doh...that is what I get for only reading the OP's post and skimming the presentation.... I apologize.

One thing is clear...there certainly isn't an easy option. My trip last year in August definitely was kind of a clusterfuck but it was at least mostly dry and not too muddy. I think there were two or three groups taking out and maybe 15-20 rafts...which was not ideal with the steep dirt ramp. It was pretty clear to me that something different needs to happen there. Seems like you could make a new concrete ramp at Dirty Devil, with the Jetty...but if you actually wanted to keep the 2-3 degree rule it would need to be 1/4 mile long to deal with the water height fluctuations.

Travel down Cataract will almost certainly continue to rise. Too many other permitted rivers are filling up and the flatwater is proving to no longer be as much of a barrier for entry as it once was. We only saw a few canoe trips on the Green, but when we got to the Colorado basically all of the camps between the confluence and Spanish bottom had a trip in them. Some were canoe trips that would get jet boated back up to Moab...but many were going into Cataract. It was fairly challenging to find a camp below the rapids too... kinda limited spots and due to the "unemployed" status of a lot of people in 2020 it turns out some groups were spending 2-3 days at each camp. I wouldn't be surprised to find a change in permit policy for Cataract in the next couple years.


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

B4otter said:


> OR extend Hite ramp (which would have to go well over a couple hundred yards and might not be useable for power boats since the gradient isn't enough to launch...).


When we did Cat last year at 32K CFS, you could see Hite from the river in a couple of spots, it was at least a mile or more from the actual river, that would be one heck of a feat to extend it that far. We took out at Bullfrog as the canyonlands ranger we spoke with said North Wash was a mud pit, and we were in snouts. Turns out North Wash was just fine, and one member of our trip backed right down to the river and took his boat out, we had already shuttled to Bullfrog and just kept going. That was memorial day last year, I can't imagine the reserviour has risen or will rise this year.


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## B4otter (Apr 20, 2009)

You trusted the ranger...???


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## GeoRon (Jun 24, 2015)

The "Returning Rapids Project" is doing outstanding work. 

Do they have a Go Fund Me site?


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

B4otter said:


> You trusted the ranger...???


It was TBerry, he's been there forever, at least as long as I can remember. Helluva guy..


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## Shaft (Aug 7, 2017)

GeoRon said:


> The "Returning Rapids Project" is doing outstanding work.
> 
> Do they have a Go Fund Me site?


It appears they have hooked up with Glen Canyon Institute for donations and will eventually be a part of that non-profit.






Donate — Returning Rapids of Cataract Canyon







www.returningrapids.com


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## Shaft (Aug 7, 2017)

MNichols said:


> When we did Cat last year at 32K CFS, you could see Hite from the river in a couple of spots, it was at least a mile or more from the actual river, that would be one heck of a feat to extend it that far. We took out at Bullfrog as the canyonlands ranger we spoke with said North Wash was a mud pit, and we were in snouts. Turns out North Wash was just fine, and one member of our trip backed right down to the river and took his boat out, we had already shuttled to Bullfrog and just kept going. That was memorial day last year, I can't imagine the reserviour has risen or will rise this year.


Marshall, I saw the exact same thing you did, mostly because I was on the grey snout on that trip. 
-Rob


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## GeoRon (Jun 24, 2015)

Shaft said:


> It appears they have hooked up with Glen Canyon Institute for donations and will eventually be a part of that non-profit.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you, I just became a sustaining member. 

They do superb work to directly benefit and inform the boating community; and an excellent interface to the government agencies.


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## yardsells (Jul 14, 2014)

MNichols said:


> Turns out North Wash was just fine, and one member of our trip backed right down to the river and took his boat out,


Uh, that's only because the guy who took his snout out there has the most badass snout trailer I've ever seen. His trailer never touched the water so he didn't have to deal with all of the north wash mud bull [email protected]!#. That trailer seems to have been built as the IDEAL north wash snout trailer.
I'm secretly copying it this winter. Although, not as pro style. mine is literally old bedframes, top rail and salvage bearings.

im afraid with the falling lake levels, the Paiute falls / Pearce ferry thing will just be the norm. This is my 1st time witnessing a dying reservoir so i dont know what the heck to expect. Hey that rhymes...


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

Shaft said:


> Marshall, I saw the exact same thing you did, mostly because I was on the grey snout on that trip.
> -Rob


Ahhh, Howdy Rob.. been practicing up on the hula hoop? Lol


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## Shaft (Aug 7, 2017)

yardsells said:


> Uh, that's only because the guy who took his snout out there has the most badass snout trailer I've ever seen. His trailer never touched the water so he didn't have to deal with all of the north wash mud bull [email protected]!#. That trailer seems to have been built as the IDEAL north wash snout trailer.
> I'm secretly copying it this winter. Although, not as pro style. mine is literally old bedframes, top rail and salvage bearings.
> 
> im afraid with the falling lake levels, the Paiute falls / Pearce ferry thing will just be the norm. This is my 1st time witnessing a dying reservoir so i dont know what the heck to expect. Hey that rhymes...


Best big raft trailer I have ever seen, I put plenty of work into my small trailer but it's still a POS, by the way yardsells my blinking trailer lights were caused by the loss of ground when the tilt bed bounced, apparently the pivot point is insulated. Salvage bearings are the only way to go on a trailer, right? They are just gonna get wet anyway...



MNichols said:


> Ahhh, Howdy Rob.. been practicing up on the hula hoop? Lol


Howdy back atcha Marshall, I hear your snout is coming along nicely!

For the TL;DR crowd, let's look at the worst case scenario, assuming the Colorado drainage continues to have a below average snow pack, the reservoir is not gonna rise much and the river will continue to scour silt from the new channel until it hits rock. Any rapid or waterfall occurring at the "Possible First Waterfall Location" may be enough to shut down Cataract launches. Thanks again to the Returning Rapids folks for the research, I've beaten the horse enough...


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## JEPerry (Mar 27, 2017)

In 1964 we took out by rowing up White Canyon among flooded trees. I believe this was the vicinity of Hite Ferry. The road in could accommodate a school bus. 

Circa 1968 - 1971 the takeout was on the downstream side of North Wash; the road across and down to it could carry trucks pulling pontoon trailers. That iteration of the ramp was a fairly smooth slope with the boat-ravaging traction that comes from covering with old CB interlocking metal landing-strip liners. 

The Hite Marina Ramp was then extended out to the lake surface and had all the smooth convenience that comes from kowtowing to cabin-cruisers; a piece of cake for rafters, it was usable as late as 2001, though as the lake receded driftwood and exhumed wire fencing were a problem for motors and tubes respectively. It was not easy to keep desilted enough to use. 

In its early form the present ramp was bad enough that you longed for a winch, to get the boats on the trailer and the units up the ledges. Other than the flocculate silt just subsurface, I think it's now a pretty good ramp for a single party, but the dismality coefficent increases with the third or fourth power of the number of parties trying to use it. 

As to bringing the old ramps back to life, I think the most promising is the one downstream from North Wash, but the access road may not easily be resuscitated after 50 years under.


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## GeoRon (Jun 24, 2015)

JEPerry said:


> As to bringing the old ramps back to life, I think the most promising is the one downstream from North Wash, but the access road may not easily be resuscitated after 50 years under.


Thanks Earl for some background.

They would likely also need to resuscitate the former river channel to use the former ramp. If the reservoir continues to drop, the current course of the river will soon(?) flow over emerging cliff bands creating possibly impassible waterfalls, hence, a perched river. The cliff bands are shown in orange on the map above.

To excavate/dredge and permanently maintain the former channel would likely require dropping the reservoir perhaps another 100+' which I doubt the higher powers are interested in committing to. If you did excavate you'd have the problem of 150'+' or taller silt banks. (Please don't check my math. Just throwing out numbers right now.)

Whatever the future I'm glad that someone is already defining it in detail such as the presentation that Shaft turned us on to. As the report concludes, "It is a complicated situation."


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## Shaft (Aug 7, 2017)

Looks like the GCNRA superintendent is at least thinking about a new takeout up by Hite...









'A lot of risk for a little bit of gain'


Last month, a post appeared on a discussion forum on the Wayne’s Words website under the headline “Dangling Rope permanently closing.”




lakepowellchronicle.com


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## Andy H. (Oct 13, 2003)

I didn't have time to read everything above, however, in case no one mentioned it: My understanding is that on the San Juan below Clay Hills, there's now an unrunnable waterfall where the river channel shifted when Lake Powel water levels fell after silting up when lake levels were high.


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## B4otter (Apr 20, 2009)

Paiute Falls. Seem to recall a boat or two getting away at Slickhorn or Grand Gulch camp and running it a few years back. Think there was a post here w/photos - not pretty, but was basically totaled.

I read the article, think improved takeout for Cat in 2022 is wishful thinking. Late October I ran on out to Bullfrog w/4 boat flotilla rather than deal with slippery yuck at North Wash (rained hard the night before our takeout). 5 gallons gas using Honda 5, about 12 hours total running time to cover the pretty close to 50 miles. Beautiful. No one there until 5 miles from Bullfrog. Takeout was clear water and hard "sand," a couple houseboats launched while we were packing up...


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## dsrtrat (May 29, 2011)

2018 article about Piute falls with photo. 









Piute Farms Waterfall On Lower San Juan - A Tributary Of Lake Powell on Wild About Utah


Piute Farm's waterfall is a 25-ft high cascade that has formed along the San Juan River and spans its entire width. The location is a remote spot in an…



www.upr.org


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## bob london (12 mo ago)

JEPerry said:


> In 1964 we took out by rowing up White Canyon among flooded trees. I believe this was the vicinity of Hite Ferry. The road in could accommodate a school bus.
> 
> Circa 1968 - 1971 the takeout was on the downstream side of North Wash; the road across and down to it could carry trucks pulling pontoon trailers. That iteration of the ramp was a fairly smooth slope with the boat-ravaging traction that comes from covering with old CB interlocking metal landing-strip liners.
> 
> ...


A VERY interesting post, JEPerry. You say the "The Hite Marina Ramp was then extended out to the lake surface ... " This is the 'new' Hite Marina, right? 

What year are you talking about and what year was the 'new' Hite Marina concrete ramp first poured?


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## B4otter (Apr 20, 2009)

I don't know exactly as I was out of the country from 1986-2012 (mostly, returned for Cat and Grand trips every couple years...), but pretty good guess is the long ramp at "New" Hite was built in late mid- to late-90's to accommodate houseboats and power boats. (The NPS office and visitor center went in same time just upstream of the ramp - all this stuff is still there, just not in use...). I know I used the ramp in '98 for a takeout and I believe it was extended in the early 2000's. I'm talking about the way long ramp built upstream from the marina, where the docks and gas pumps remained. The marina goes back to the 70's when it was re-located from across the river at North Wash.


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## richp (Feb 27, 2005)

I was on an NPS science trip in 2002 or 2003, using a snout. 

We took out at the concrete Hite ramp, but as I recall, the paved surface already was short of the water. However, the terrain beyond the ramp was such that trailer could still be backed into the water to retrieve the boat. 

Rich Phillips


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## bob london (12 mo ago)

B4otter said:


> The marina goes back to the 70's


Right ! That's what I thought. 1973 probably, although I don't have any definite proof of that. 

The reservoir level was hovering around the 3600 mark at the beginning of that year and by March 1974 had risen to 3650 which is, pretty much, the elevation of the bottom of the ramp at Hite. By July '74 the elevation was 3665 (remember that?) which meant the end of the ramp was 15 feet under water.

I reckon they poured that, now iconic, slab of concrete through the spring/summer of 1973.

I'd be fascinated to hear from anyone who has pictures, memories, anything to do with the early days of the 'new' Hite Marina.

Was the 'first' marina, on the opposite bank in Glen Cove, still in use as late as 73/74? I haven't found any photographs of that area later than 1969. I'll have to do some more digging.

Cheers. Bob.


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## Shaft (Aug 7, 2017)

Looks like something is emerging from the muck starting last October...
















Here

EDIT:
Probably just the Dominy sediment pushed out of the mouth of the Dirty Devil mentioned in the "1921 USGS Survey through Cataract 100 years later" trip report here.


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## B4otter (Apr 20, 2009)

Yes, the river used to run over on the right against the bank at the mouth of the Dirty Devil, now there is a large and gooey silt bar that pushes the river over to the left. I know because I eddied out in the lee of it (downstream end) to see how the crowded the takeout was on the morning of October 28, 2021 - and then decided to run on out to Bullfrog.


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## Bootboy (Aug 25, 2020)

Shaft said:


> Looks like something is emerging from the muck starting last October...
> View attachment 73097
> View attachment 73096
> 
> ...


The only significant difference in those 2 pictures is water level. You can actually see the sediment bar at the DD in both. That’s the alluvium from the big flood last September. There may be minor changes, but there haven’t been any significant events since then, and the rate of change is slowing now that the gradient has moved well downstream. It will work it’s way back up but it’s a multi stage process.

The game changer will be the runoff this year (if there even is one). A decent runoff year (maybe next year, sight) will really rearrange things.


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## bob london (12 mo ago)

'The game changer will be the runoff this year (if there even is one).'

The runoff last year raised the reservoir level by less than twenty four inches. 

So far this year, the Upper Colorado snowpack had a promising start but has flatlined since early January:










The weather is fickle - anything could happen between now and April - but, to be honest, it's not looking good for Powell in 2022.


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## Shaft (Aug 7, 2017)

Easy to see how floods/debris flow from the DD over the millennia pushed the river to the south instead of where it is now...


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

bob london said:


> 'The game changer will be the runoff this year (if there even is one).'
> 
> The runoff last year raised the reservoir level by less than twenty four inches.
> 
> ...


And don't forget, they're going to put some of this year's runoff water and all of the upstream reservoirs that they drained to keep the turbines spinning and the cash flowing in Powell last year..


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## tBatt (May 18, 2020)

New post on IG from Returning Rapids, pic of a hole below North Wash from 2005. 


__
http://instagr.am/p/CaKwM1ELmlw/


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## Shaft (Aug 7, 2017)

The photography from the same trip is great, worth a read too:








As Lake Powell shrinks, the Colorado River is coming back to life


Scientists studying the scenic waterway are finding a quickly changing environment that’s reminiscent of a life lived before the Glen Canyon Dam. By Zak Podmore | Photography by Francisco Kjolseth



local.sltrib.com


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## Shaft (Aug 7, 2017)

Some interesting reading: https://wayneswords.net/threads/good-conversation.7238/


Paladin at Waynes Words said:


> Most recently I had the honor and privilege of a conference call with Superintendent Shott regarding the current state of affairs at Lake Powell and the Glen Canyon Recreational Area.
> <snip>
> Hite will be rebuilt to support a massive influx of floaters, rafters, paddle boarders and kayakers.
> He stated clearly that an RFP was issued and the vendor accepted and that they will start construction in the very near future.


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

Wow. I call bullshit on most if not all of paladin's post, Hite rebuilt ? yeah, when the levels in the reservoir raise another hundred plus feet. Not a thing that is in his "report" is economically feasible, I can't fathom that the agency has a spare trillion dollars laying around to invest in infrastructure that if their, BuWreck and WAPA's wishes come true, will be underwater in a couple years. And his estimation of snowpack, well if wishes were horses, beggars would ride. 

It's my understanding (from the guy that was the captain of the boat I rode on on our memorial day trip) that they are only looking to rebuild / lengthen the "executive" ramp at Bullfrog this year, and while they are looking at options with an engineering firm, I'm betting there's not a great deal of $$$ available, especially with inflation at 8%, diesel fuel at +$5.00 a gallon, to do any of it. 

My 2 cents, YMMV


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## bob london (12 mo ago)

MNichols said:


> Wow. I call bullshit on most if not all of paladin's post, Hite rebuilt ? yeah, when the levels in the reservoir raise another hundred plus feet. Not a thing that is in his "report" is economically feasible, I can't fathom that the agency has a spare trillion dollars laying around to invest in infrastructure that if their, BuWreck and WAPA's wishes come true, will be underwater in a couple years. And his estimation of snowpack, well if wishes were horses, beggars would ride.
> 
> It's my understanding (from the guy that was the captain of the boat I rode on on our memorial day trip) that they are only looking to rebuild / lengthen the "executive" ramp at Bullfrog this year, and while they are looking at options with an engineering firm, I'm betting there's not a great deal of $$$ available, especially with inflation at 8%, diesel fuel at +$5.00 a gallon, to do any of it.
> 
> My 2 cents, YMMV


From what I can tell, the gentle folks over at Wayne's Words are mostly shills for the BoR.

They, like their paymasters, have their heads firmly stuck in the sediment.

Schott spouts BS to anyone who will listen. He has a clue wtf is about to hit him but chooses to lie through his teeth in the hope the Spring runoff will cover his arse - which it won't.

Even I can see that from here in London.

There's going to be access to Lake Powell for a few short weeks via one, hastily extended, ramp and then what?

What about the upstream reservoirs that are being drained to prop up Powell? The boat owners there are going to be livid that they've lost another season.

Regarding Hite: There will never again be enough water to launch there - the ramp extends down to ~3650, 130 feet above the current elevation of the reservoir and over ten miles from it.

If there's any new development there it will be to do with giving floaters the facility to get off The River in an orderly fashion - ie blading a path from the existing concrete ramp down to the Colorado as it now sits.

This simple nod to the floaters wouldn't cost a bean compared to the money being thrown to ensure some rich dork's floating gin palace can launch at Wahweap, Bullfrog, whatever.


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## dgoods (Jul 15, 2013)

I recently did a backpacking trip in southeastern Utah and on route, we stopped at Hite to check it out. The last time I was there was probably back in 2001 after running Cat. The place is surreal now-an eerie site with the river 1/4 mile from the ramp and then a huge silt cliff-inaccessible, to the river far below.

Meanwhile, the Colorado continues to reemerge as the reservoir continues to drop. The Returning Rapids project is doing a great job of documenting the return of Glen Canyon and it is a very interesting time-when a man-made folly is obviously becoming defunct and nature is coming back.

The "Fill Mead First" initiative emphasizes the logic of draining Powell and putting the water into Mead. It's a deeper, narrower reservoir that would not loose as much water to evaporation. Of course, all the yahoos w/house boats will argue that idea till the very end.


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

dgoods said:


> I recently did a backpacking trip in southeastern Utah and on route, we stopped at Hite to check it out. The last time I was there was probably back in 2001 after running Cat. The place is surreal now-an eerie site with the river 1/4 mile from the ramp and then a huge silt cliff-inaccessible, to the river far below.
> 
> Meanwhile, the Colorado continues to reemerge as the reservoir continues to drop. The Returning Rapids project is doing a great job of documenting the return of Glen Canyon and it is a very interesting time-when a man-made folly is obviously becoming defunct and nature is coming back.


We floated by Hite 2 years ago, there was every bit of a 30 foot tall silt cliff between the "top" and the river, and Hite was a TINY little spec in the distance. I think your 1/4 mile estimation is off by about 2-3 miles from what I saw on the water.. It's a LONG way away, and many feet below "Ground level" to the water. 

The returning rapids project is most cool.


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## B4otter (Apr 20, 2009)

Stopped at North Wash returning from Clay Hills takeout at 6:30 p.m. on Wednesday, 3/30/2022. Hard to take photos with sun at that low angle and I'm terrible at it anyway, but here's a couple shots. Not much change - certainly no new blade work and the front end loader is in same spot it was - since our trip stopped there on October 28 last year (and we then continued on to Bullfrog, which is currently closed while they extend the ramp). The level is about 10 vertical feet lower today although the lake elevation has fallen 30+ feet in the meantime. 

North Wash still looks feasible, maybe a little better than last October due to friendly eddies right at the foot of the "ramp" that can accommodate maybe 4 boats instead of two. With roller tubes and a good anchor/strong 4WD/winch it would be totally doable - unless it rains. If/when that happens, North Wash becomes an accident waiting to happen... which is what caused our geriatric group to go on to Bullfrog last time (heavy rain the night before we got there, a big group of 20- and 30-somethings from Jackson already having a tough time, etc.).

As for the fantasies in the wayneswords.net post, I have a sticker on my trailer "Believing bullshit will not make it come true." Weather and climate prediction is all about probabilities, and the odds just aren't in favor of gaining ground on storage capacity in any of the dams this year. Sure, we all (or most of us, anyway) hope for a repeat of 1983/84 when we got BIG April and May snow and rain - but it doesn't look good today. And there are twice if not treble the number of people living in the drainage and dependent on it for water. (The post from "paladin" rankled from the beginning with the "confidentiality" - privilege - assertions when at least 6 or 7 of the participants in the call are paid by the taxpayers...). But sure, houseboats and motorboats are people, too.... 

There were zero vehicles in the parking lot and no one around when I took these. Hard to believe no one is running Cat at the end of March (we did last year and had trouble getting the camps we wanted!) but that's apparently the case. T-berry (Cat river ranger) is neighbor to a couple on our San Juan trip and told them any improvement to the takeout situation is still in the talking stage. Extending the Hite boat ramp is WAY beyond the scope/income of the Cat
rafting "industry." Even if you tacked on a $100 surcharge per passenger, and applied it to privates as well, you'd maybe have 3-4 hundred thousand, say even $500k to apply towards ramp improvement. That wouldn't get you even a hundred yards towards the river from the foot of the Hite ramp, and it's a good half mile from the water. The problems with doing anything at North Wash have been discussed in this thread. 

BTW, Clay Hills is gooey yuck and a boat drag the last 10-15 yards even with light, small boats. That was at 600+ cfs on 3/30 (after two nights of light rain). I counted 24 times rowing back and forth across the river to stay in the "channel" from Steer Gulch (6 miles to CH). Took 2.5 hours...


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

Wow. Thanks man. T-Berry said the same thing to me, he mentioned something about private property and NEPA having a part in any solution too. I think your photos were perfect, thanks for sharing. Not sure I'm going to plan on taking the snout boat out there though.. a class IV river with a class VI takeout for that rig.


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## Electric-Mayhem (Jan 19, 2004)

Looks to be about 2050 feet if these aerial images are to be believed....









Edit: Sorry...not very legible... the text near the river bank says 2050ft

Non-trivial distance to put that much concrete down...but doable if there was support. Seems questionable on whether there is or not.

Definitely a challenging situation. I know on a late season trip last year the Northwash takeout SUCKED. Only option was a 45 degree slope up right down to the river which was sticky gross silty mud. Definitely too steep for a vehicle with a trailer without some kind of winch to pull you back up.

I'm no expert, but I don't expect Lake Powell to ever fill significantly again even if we had a couple of amazing years of snow pack in a row. If you had asked me a few years ago if we would have been in this position I woulda called you crazy...but its actually looking like it might be possible that Lake Powell and Glen Canyon Dam might be essentially dead.


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## yardsells (Jul 14, 2014)

This basically sums it up:









A waterfall could soon form on the Colorado River as Lake Powell drops


<b>Piute Farms Waterfall</b> <b>•</b> Each spring on the brushy banks of the San Juan River, a bucket brigade assembles twice daily.




www.sltrib.com


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## bob london (12 mo ago)

Electric-Mayhem said:


> Non-trivial distance to put that much concrete down...but doable if there was support


Why would you need to put concrete down? A bladed and compacted route to the bank of the river would suffice, surely?

We're talking about 4x4s with trailers and not juggernauts towing 120-foot houseboats, right?


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

bob london said:


> Why would you need to put concrete down? A bladed and compacted route to the bank of the river would suffice, surely?
> 
> We're talking about 4x4s with trailers and not juggernauts towing 120-foot houseboats, right?


If it were to rain, that silt will become bottomless super slick and impassable in short order with very little moisture.. think about what it's like on the River banks, where you step off your boat and end up in sludge up to your waist.. there would need to be some sort of surface, at the very least 10 or 12 inches of road base, and even at that...


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## bob london (12 mo ago)

MNichols said:


> If it were to rain, that silt will become bottomless super slick and impassable in short order with very little moisture.. think about what it's like on the River banks, where you step off your boat and end up in sludge up to your waist.. there would need to be some sort of surface, at the very least 10 or 12 inches of road base, and even at that...


The Hite ramp was built on bedrock. That same bedrock extends down to the original elevation of the river there.

Admittedly, the river is flowing in a channel over 100 feet higher than it should be.

Oh yeah. Reading what I've typed just makes me realise what a hugely costly project this would be.

As you were ...


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## bob london (12 mo ago)

yardsells said:


> This basically sums it up:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks for the link, John.

It's incredible to think there was a short-lived marina just upstream of the falls at Piute Farms in the late eighties. Even at near full pool they were floating on seven or eight feet of water:


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## Shaft (Aug 7, 2017)

Page 3-4 of the Glen Canyon Gazette:


> Moving forward, the park will be working with a contractor to take the conceptual drawings developed for the Antelope
> Point Public Ramp, Halls Crossing Public Ramp, and a primitive ramp and takeout area at Hite and develop schematic
> designs for those proposed projects while the park continues to seek the funding necessary for potential construction.


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