# Andy & Bax Dropped RMR



## ShouldBeFloating (Jan 11, 2022)

I went to purchase a RMR raft and was going to have it delivered to the Andy & Bax store here in Portland since it's close to me. I was told by RMR that Andy & Bax dropped them. 

Does anyone know why? I want to make sure it wasn't a problem with service or product inferiority before I go ahead and order a RMR through other means. 

Thanks


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## elkcmp (Mar 14, 2021)

Not sure why Andy & Bax got rid of them but I did see that Next Adventure is now carrying them in their Portland Paddle store.


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## caverdan (Aug 27, 2004)

ShouldBeFloating said:


> I went to purchase a RMR raft and was going to have it delivered to the Andy & Bax store here in Portland since it's close to me. I was told by RMR that Andy & Bax dropped them.
> 
> Does anyone know why? I want to make sure it wasn't a problem with service or product inferiority before I go ahead and order a RMR through other means.
> 
> Thanks


The only way I see to answer your question..........is to ask Andy & Bax.🐴


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## ShouldBeFloating (Jan 11, 2022)

caverdan said:


> The only way I see to answer your question..........is to ask Andy & Bax.🐴


And I plan on calling them tomorrow. Boat shop closed Mondays.


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## VanHalli (May 5, 2020)

ShouldBeFloating said:


> And I plan on calling them tomorrow. Boat shop closed Mondays.


Let us know what you find out, eh? Interested to hear what went down.


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## Whitewater Worthy Equip (Dec 11, 2013)

I can’t answer the original question but I still work with RMR in southern Oregon. I’ve got a 13’ and 16’ in stock and can order any thing else you might want.


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## ShouldBeFloating (Jan 11, 2022)

Talked to Andy & Bax. Would not give reason as to why they dropped RMR. Person I talked to said it was "owners decision" and that's all the info I was able to get. They now work with tributary and Star/NRS....


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## Andy H. (Oct 13, 2003)

ShouldBeFloating said:


> Talked to Andy & Bax. Would not give reason as to why they dropped RMR.


Which is really as it should be. I have zero inside knowledge of what's going on, but IMHO there could be all sorts of reasons that a shop and any particular manufacturer cease doing business with each other. And I bet that the vast majority of those reasons have nothing to do with the boat quality, warranties, or a whole host of issues that actually matter to us end users, but that folks here may be jumping to conclusions about.


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## ShouldBeFloating (Jan 11, 2022)

Andy H. said:


> Which is really as it should be. I have zero inside knowledge of what's going on, but IMHO there could be all sorts of reasons that a shop and any particular manufacturer cease doing business with each other. And I bet that the vast majority of those reasons have nothing to do with the boat quality, warranties, or a whole host of issues that actually matter to us end users, but that folks here may be jumping to conclusions about.


Agree and not jumping to conclusions. Just doing my due diligence before dropping $$$$ on a new RMR


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## TJP (Nov 20, 2020)

For what it’s worth, I got a pandemic raft from RMR last summer. 16’DS. Got in two weeks of floating the desert. No quality concerns. I know that’s only one experience.


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## caverdan (Aug 27, 2004)

RMR is built to last using much heavier material than stars or tribs. All of them are PVC. For that price point of boats I'd buy RMR over a star. 😉


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## jamesthomas (Sep 12, 2010)

My buddy Keith’s RMR 14 seems really stout. Inflates tight as a drum, no leaks. He bought it used. Seems bomber to me. I wouldn’t hesitate to buy one as long as the company itself is sound.


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## caverdan (Aug 27, 2004)

I met the owners when they first started the company in Colorado Springs. I thought they were standup guys. I think they moved to Utah, but they have been in business a long time.


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## ShouldBeFloating (Jan 11, 2022)

I believe they are now located in AZ near Phoenix. At least that's where I sent my money for a 16ft SBDS boat. As in everything else, plan ahead because most everything is on backorder. I wont see the boat most likely until March....hopefully.


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## k2andcannoli (Feb 28, 2012)

Probably just mad at Joe Manchin 😉... Gotta punish WV anyway possible!


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## VanHalli (May 5, 2020)

ShouldBeFloating said:


> I believe they are now located in AZ near Phoenix. At least that's where I sent my money for a 16ft SBDS boat. As in everything else, plan ahead because most everything is on backorder. I wont see the boat most likely until March....hopefully.


Not sure where their offices are located, but the warehouse that my boat shipped from back in '20 was in WV. My experience was great, great company to work with. Their warehouse guy (can't recall his name unfortunately) that I set up the delivery with was super friendly and after reading my address knew my area in CO pretty well. After 2 full seasons of 60+ days on the river each (most of which on classic bony, low-water Rocky Mountain rivers) and many a hang-up and games of bumper boat, haven't had an issue yet.


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## griz (Sep 19, 2005)

ShouldBeFloating said:


> Agree and not jumping to conclusions. Just doing my due diligence before dropping $$$$ on a new RMR


I remember when the owner/one of the owners of RMR came on here some years back. I seem to recall about 1 in 25-33 boats needed warranty work out of the box by the numbers he gave at that time. it wasn’t a number to instill much confidence. He sure didn’t, as well. RMR became a brand I’ll never own or recommend after that thread.


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## brilittle (Apr 26, 2018)

ShouldBeFloating said:


> I went to purchase a RMR raft and was going to have it delivered to the Andy & Bax store here in Portland since it's close to me. I was told by RMR that Andy & Bax dropped them.
> 
> Does anyone know why? I want to make sure it wasn't a problem with service or product inferiority before I go ahead and order a RMR through other means.
> 
> Thanks


I can’t speak to RMR, but I can say Next Adventure is great. Deek is one of the owners and a boater. I have paddled with him for 15 years. I would not follow his lines but he is a stand up guy and stands behind anything he sells.

Ship the boat to Next Adventure. They will take care of you if there are any issues.


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## trialsize (May 11, 2018)

I may, or may not, have heard that Next Adventure once promised A&B that they wouldn't sell rafts when they opened their paddle sports store so as not to be in competition. But then they did, primarily with RMR, so maybe A&B are not happy with that. Again, total conjecture . . .


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## Bobthegreat (Mar 3, 2019)

I have a 16’ RMR, purchased in 2016. It averages 200-300 miles a year. I just ran it down the canyon ( 280) have had no problems with the boat. Highly recommend them.


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## Jamesdking (Mar 14, 2016)

Second this. I bought mine years ago (2017??)and it’s never had a single issue. It’s big heavy and tough. I got exactly what I paid for (or more). Probably close to 200 days out. 
And I stored it outside under a car cover for a couple years on the trailer.


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## YuenglingMan (12 mo ago)

As some suggested, store owner's decision could have been for a number of reasons.... most of which have nothing to do with the product. More likely personal differences. 


In my area, only one place to WW raft. Not impressive water but beautiful surroundings so it draws lots of people. Probably 10 different outfitters with hundreds of rafts. I spoke to a dealer who told me they had deals with a couple of the outfitters which accounted for quite a few rafts ordered every year. Owner and outfitter butted heads over some miniscule topic and that grenaded the deal. Broke ties, cancelled any future orders and that outfitter got others to join him in no longer purchasing the product. 

People are funny and do stupid things sometimes.


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## jamesthomas (Sep 12, 2010)

Ya think.


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## BenJam'n (Aug 17, 2021)

Bought a 14' drop stitch floor RMR in 2020. Super happy with the quality especially at this price point. Bomber gear, customer support has been awesome as well.


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## Sweetwaterboater (Jul 8, 2020)

VanHalli said:


> Not sure where their offices are located, but the warehouse that my boat shipped from back in '20 was in WV. My experience was great, great company to work with. Their warehouse guy (can't recall his name unfortunately) that I set up the delivery with was super friendly and after reading my address knew my area in CO pretty well. After 2 full seasons of 60+ days on the river each (most of which on classic bony, low-water Rocky Mountain rivers) and many a hang-up and games of bumper boat, haven't had an issue yet.


Linc Stalling was the warehouse manager then (not sure if he still is). Great guy to work with, answered any questions and had great advice on setup. He's an amazing R1 boater and offers R1 clinics as well. I've been very happy with my 9'6" Thundercloud. Checkout his Waterbound podcast.


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## shannon s (Feb 20, 2015)

griz said:


> I remember when the owner/one of the owners of RMR came on here some years back. I seem to recall about 1 in 25-33 boats needed warranty work out of the box by the numbers he gave at that time. it wasn’t a number to instill much confidence. He sure didn’t, as well. RMR became a brand I’ll never own or recommend after that thread.


I bought a brand new 2014 and it immediately developed a seam leak. Their customer service was horrendous to say the least. Two buddy's here (Colorado Springs) had older RMR's that basically fell apart on them. RMR offered them a pro deal on a new one, complete bullshit deal. No accountability at all. The owner showed up here and offered to take us out for drinks to chat. He blew smoke up asses and still didn't rectify the situation, dude doesn't even boat. They accidentally sent an internal email to a buddy, the jest of it was, "how do we get out of this warranty work." I wouldn't take a boat from them if they gave it to me. Buyer beware.


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## VanHalli (May 5, 2020)

Sweetwaterboater said:


> tions and had great advice on setup. He's an amazing R1 boater and offers R1 clinics as well. I've been very happy with my 9'6" Thundercloud. Checkout his Waterbound podcast.


That's him for sure, he was great. Thanks for chiming in I'll be sure to check out his podcast. Sounds like a few people in here are having radically different experiences with RMR... All I can say is that anecdotally, my boat has done everything I've asked of it and more, with zero issues. A good buddy purchased a 12', not sure what year, off someone on the front range. It had a pretty well known seam issue I believe, not 100% certain. Got a screaming deal. He contacted RMR and had an incredibly easy experience having them just swap out the boat for a brand new one. Another good friend, the one who convinced me to take a look at RMR's in the first place, has easily clocked over 1000 miles on his 16' with no issues. Not trying to be a corporate schill here but I'll happily stand behind RMR, until they give me a reason not to.


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## TboneCooper (Jul 8, 2019)

Take this with a grain of salt. I know Next Adventure and Andy & Bax had an informal agreement that NA would leave rafting stuff up to A & B. In the past few years Next Adventure started selling packrafts and IKs. I imagine the two stores negotiated something where NA would sell RMR stuff and leave everything else raft related alone. Anyways, purely speculation at this point, but as someone who has worked in the industry in Portland it makes sense to me.


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