# Your favorite Creek Boat



## JCKeck1 (Oct 28, 2003)

Hopefully this will be fun, educational and maybe bring out a bitch slap or two. I personally hate the Huck - I pearled the bow while safety boating the S-Turn and plowed it right into the Pine Creek hole. That was a rather embarassing surf. S Lee - I couldn't remember what that old ass boat was that you stomped the Source at 415 in or I would have added it to the poll!

Booyah - There's the Crux (looks good) and the Top Duo - what ever happened to those sickos that showed up several times at Gorefest with one?

I added Coran's designs too, but I've got to say that I don't see the point. Yes he pushes for innovative designs and is a sicko (check out NCRC), but are those really anyone's Fav Boat (reps excluded)?

The Diesel, Mamba, and Hoss series are not true creekers and are therefore excluded. Yes you can run Gorilla in a playboat or river runner- that does not make it a creek boat.


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## Electric-Mayhem (Jan 19, 2004)

You forgot a bunch.....like the entire Riot, Fluid and DragoRossi lines among others. Riot Big Gun, Sniper, and Magnum, Fluid Solo, Drago Mafia, oh and the Necky Crux. The Wavesport Diesel is another one that should probably be on there.


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## BastrdSonOfElvis (Mar 24, 2005)

Diesel's not realy a creeker...but where's the topo duo, holmes?


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## Electric-Mayhem (Jan 19, 2004)

How is the Diesel not a creeker? A good chunk of the class V boaters I know use it as such quite happily. It may have the flat bottom, but its got volume, response and friendliness, which in my mind makes it a creeker.


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## huckit21 (Nov 4, 2003)

Give it up joe, everyone knows that the Jefe is the best boat out there right now. Even you wanted that bnoat, only the Rocker was cheaper! you know you love it so stop lying to yourself!


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## BastrdSonOfElvis (Mar 24, 2005)

Sure, you can take it down a creek, but wavesport doesn't market it as a creeker. It's "The most versitile, all-river, all-conditions whitewater kayak evermade." That's from their website. Thus...it's not really a creeker. If you throw up the diesel, you have to include the Hoss and Lil' Joe, too. I'm not knocking the boat...never paddled one..just saying it's a "river runner".


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## mastreet (Jul 5, 2005)

*M3*

The m3 is so old school with latest technology.


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## ACC (Oct 30, 2003)

eric, just cause my good buddy gus spanked you doesn't mean its not still the best boat ever. joe - add the skream for s.lee


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## cdw (Mar 28, 2005)

*Prijon Rockit*

-Professor of the Old School


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## jonny water (Oct 28, 2003)

Blunt is my fav as far as all the boats I've paddled....however, I have been paddling the same blunt for at least 7 years! That tells you something about the blunt but it is heavy as hell.


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## flounderbuoy (Sep 18, 2004)

wasnt it the savage scream (s lee's boat)?


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## badkins (Oct 30, 2003)

Hmmm, 3 votes for the Rocker. Must be the semi-sponsored bro-deal Jackson kayak 303 poser posse, aka marty, darren, and matt.  Just kidding guys, I don't have to tell you that you suck, you know it well.

My vote is for the Gus, sucky paddlers don't like it, that's okay cuz they suck.

You should put a Phat on that poll too, there is a pretty dedicated group out there for that boat.


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## Caspian (Oct 14, 2003)

JCKeck1 said:


> Yes you can run Gorilla in a playboat or river runner- that does not make it a creek boat.


Apparently, you can run it in a Topo Duo also, as was done last year by two NOC boys who got bored with ESPN and Xbox. But I would still say a K-2 is not a creek boat, period - you can boof even a Crossfire, but not a Topo Duo.

Good poll idea!


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## thecraw (Oct 12, 2003)

Brian that is very funny you CREEKING GOD!!! Considering the constant piton that seems to happen EVERY time you take that Gus out, I am very surprised to hear you not bashing the Gus hard. If your broken ankle could only talk.... POS!!!

Yes, I voted for the Rocker, but I honestly believe it's the best creek boat ever. I was crazy for the Salto for years and still say it's the best next to the Rocker. From what I hear the Jefe is very good, but takes a bit of time to master the front end.

Matt is out of town... hasn't voted yet I am sure, not sure about Darren, but he has yet to paddle it.

Crawdad


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## 217 (Oct 27, 2003)

gus does well by me!!!
I wish it was a little shorter for my style (my size however wont allow it)but i got used to it (took a little while to get used to alot on this boat but once i did i was thankful for the tricky aspects cause they've made me a better boater).
I haven't owned another creeker so i only have boats I've tried as a comparison. 
Diesel is a creekboat as far as I'm concerned as is the Wavesport Stubby!!
I've seen sicker stuff run in those two boats then i care to at this point which in my opinion makes them damn fine creek boats.

-aaron


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## hobie (Nov 3, 2003)

Nomad. I see them everywhere now and paddlers love them. Designed to run burl shit.

hobie
Dagger Kayaks


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## Livingston (Jan 8, 2004)

Yeah, with all the T-shirts, visors, sweatshirts, etc., you'd think I'd vote Rocker, but wrong again Brian. I declined to vote because the Gradient wasn't an option. I don't think the Rocker's a bad alternative though... I just haven't had the time to work Craw on the price. Come to think of it, I haven't seen Craw swim out of a Rocker yet. That says alot!

-d


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## fatyak (Sep 8, 2005)

What kind of survey is this? If someone's "creeker" is a Diesel or something that the manufacturers don't specifically say is a "creeker" we could be missing out on some valuable info. Like maybe there are some really good creekers out there that aren't "creekers" but people are creekin in them and doin a damn fine job of it, not just bombin down by the skin of their teeth even though they might have the latest "creeker."


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## cdw (Mar 28, 2005)

double-a-ronwrote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Diesel is a creekboat as far as I'm concerned as is the Wavesport Stubby!! 
I've seen sicker stuff run in those two boats then i care to at this point which in my opinion makes them damn fine creek boats. 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

By that logic, the dancer has to go on the list, as more first D's of things that are still seldom run (Le Taureau, Horsepasture, etc) were done in the great pencil-boat of the 80's.

I say whatever you creek in, that's a creek boat.

-mr. rockit


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## JCKeck1 (Oct 28, 2003)

Seems as though I can no longer add boats to the list, otherwise I'd give it up for the Stubby, Phat, and Skream. 

My no-so-educated belief is that the Diesel, Hoss line of boats, Mamba, etc are generally made of thinner plastic, have hard chines and flatter hulls - therefore putting them in the category of river runner. Not to say that the diesel can't go big - Robert made an excellent boat. It would be my prefered one for the Fu, but definitely not for SSV. For me the plastic and pinning strength are all the difference in the world.

On a very exciting note, the new Eskimo Saltos have hit the states! I'll drop a post as soon as I get my hands on one.


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## Bryon (Apr 22, 2004)

*Fluid Solo!*

I can't believe that the new Fluid Solo is not on the list. The boat is the highest performing creekboat on the market! Yes that is a biased respose. (I'm the US distributor and did quite a bit of the prototyping on the the boat.) The boat is fast, supper stable, and is more manuverable than any creekboat out there. Be sure to give this boat a test paddle before you mark it off your list.

Check out www.justfluid.com and www.fluidkayaks.com for all the info as well as some sweet pictures and video of the boat in action. The article "Upper Cherry with the Dogg", on www.justfluid.com, has a really sweet video of the boat in action on the east coast and in California.

See you on the river,
Bryon Dorr
[email protected]
443-722-4953


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## gh (Oct 13, 2003)

Hard chines are a matter of taste. Out west the H3 is a big time creeker so I agree that eliminating the diesel is a mistake. Given the choices, I chose Nomad.


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## kayaker (Oct 29, 2003)

*questions for the converts*

My solid vote is for the Blunt.
My question is for other voters:
If you picked a newer style boat (like the Rocker or Jefe) did you convert from the Blunt?

Since I've not had the opporitunity to paddle the Rocker nor the Jefe, I'm wondering if there are any current Nomad, Jefe or Rocker paddlers who were previously stoked on the Blunt?

Anyone?


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## matts (Oct 29, 2003)

Nomad.

fast downstream. strong. responsive. boofs itself. plows through holes. lands softly. should i keep going?

matt


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## Electric-Mayhem (Jan 19, 2004)

I think you will find that the Diesel would hold up as well as any creeker out there, espeically since they started putting the "Y" creek seat in it. To be honest, I think they called it a River Runner purely for marketing reasons. Yes, it has a flat hull, but so does the Blunt, CFS, H3, and others. Its got all the volume a creeker needs and seems to be quite at home doing the hard stuff. It think the main difference between it and boats like the Hoss and Lil Joe, is that they have less volume in the stern, making them alot more tail happy (not that they are particularly, just more so). The Diesel, except for the drop chines, is much more akin to the traditional creek shape then it is to what most would call a river runner. The Mamba and Hoss are much more thin tipped and pointy with a scooped deck. Regardless, its all about what makes you comfortable. A large amount of the class V boaters that I know of are paddling that boat quite happily. Hehee........and this is coming from someone who doesn't even particularly like the boat. Its allright, but I'd much rather have my Mafia or the Jefe. I do think that it fits well into the creeker status, and moreso then the Hoss, Mamba, and even H3 (I don't like the H3 at all, I had to worst swim of my life because I couldn't roll it in Kirshbaums in Gore Canyon, and it wasn't my role....honest).

JH


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## BastrdSonOfElvis (Mar 24, 2005)

The blunt has a flat hull? News to me and I've paddled one for years. In fact, if you look at the blunt specs (necky.com, look under "retired models") they look a lot like the Jefe specs. Length, volume...distribution even looks pretty similar. And the post before that talked about the blunt's indestructibility...hell yes. It gets my vote. The only drawback is it does weight a shitload and makes long hikes a bitch.


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## erdvm1 (Oct 17, 2003)

I just got back in town from watching the DAWGS beat the Cocks. And I will have to say that I would vote ROCKER. Craw....I didn't even get a hat, t-shirt or visor, where's the love. 

Size XL Buddy :lol:


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## Electric-Mayhem (Jan 19, 2004)

BastrdSonOfElvis said:


> The blunt has a flat hull? News to me and I've paddled one for years. In fact, if you look at the blunt specs (necky.com, look under "retired models") they look a lot like the Jefe specs. Length, volume...distribution even looks pretty similar. And the post before that talked about the blunt's indestructibility...hell yes. It gets my vote. The only drawback is it does weight a shitload and makes long hikes a bitch.


First off, no denying that the Blunt is a great boat and is doing you very well. But its definetly got a flat hull, at least as creekers go. I looked up pictures of the thing just to make sure.

http://www.arrepions.com/tienda/BRAVAS/BLUNT.htm

Not saying that a flat hull is bad or anything, just thats its there. Its certainly no H3 with playboat edges stuck on a creeker deck, but its still quite flat. I'm definetly bummed to see that its been discontinued, especially seeing as they made a much smaller and more size restricted replacement for it.

That said, just because the specs are similar does not mean that a boat will behave at all the same. Length and volume are relative and only give you a very rough idea of what a boat will be like. Take the SuperEZ and the Diesel65 for instance. The SuperEZ is 62 or 63 gallons and is a playboat, albight for rather big dudes. The Diesel is definetly not a Playboat, but its only slightly longer and has only a few more gallons. Also, most playboat these days vary only slightly in basic measurements, but most behave quite differently. I think most people have begun to realize these points, but its always interesting to bring them up. As I said, the Blunt is great, its just a distinctly different boat then a Jefe.


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## knu2xs (Sep 12, 2005)

This will most likley be subject to the same debate over "river runner" versus "creeker" as the Diesel. Far and above, after paddling quite a number of creek boats, I am convinced a H2 or H3 255 (actually prefer the H2) is my favorite of all time. At just under 80 gallons, the 255 is oversized for me as a river runner (165#), but is perfect in the gnarl. It embodies exactly what a creek boat should be, it responds exactly as I expect with no surprises.


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## jonny water (Oct 28, 2003)

Like any good design, the Blunt will remain solid as a rock. Just like the Skream.....although they have been replaced by better models, you will always see them in the videos. In fact i think the skream still has it's place....like on the N. Fk. Payette....nonetheless....it is just an antique.

Livingston: Everytime I see the boat or just the name "gradient" it makes me cringe. That is the first (yet read: "ONLY") boat that resulted in a death on the Green in NC. I remember seeing that boat down near groove tube for at least a month wondering who would ever have the balls to paddle it the rest of the way out. :x


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## alabamacreeker (Jul 6, 2005)

*The Fluid Solo is the best in my opinion and it is not...*

even on here. I also like the Nomad 8.1, but the solo is the best. 
--Gavin
www.alabamasmallboats.com :lol: 
(800)874-5272


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## Bobby Whitit (Dec 15, 2003)

Aaaaaaaaaaa

If you asked Ben Stookesbury. No Big Names/Twitch fame. Who paddles nothing but the shit and nothing but the shit everyday.

He'll tell you Embudo and now followed closely by the Prijon Cross(not LL)

Soon to be many peps fav the Hercules !!!!


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## leadpipes (Feb 2, 2006)

Phat...Phat...PHAT!


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## bowen (Feb 10, 2004)

Sounds like some of you kids neeeed to get on a creek! I know I do. I'm cryin out loud to run something but find myself in the cold ass snow jonesin to paddle and talking on the buzz about the best creeker. 

First off I'd say go for something that fits your body and your paddling style. Simple, light and and durable outfitting...Steep creekers go round hulls and big h20 go for some edge. Theres a few super solid creek boats out there with most major companies standing behind their stuff...Creeking is hard enough on its own, so why run a shant-piece design down your personal first-D? 

From the looks of the poll the Jefe is the boat of choice for Colorado. I wonder how long it will be before other kayak companies choose design parameters for their boats that mimick the boss? I guess you need to go for what sells... props to LL for setting the bar.

I hope all this snow melts soon...

viva el jefe


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## Gary E (Oct 27, 2003)

Seans boat was the scream. He is probably looking for some more if anyone has them. He is running low (low = has none left)


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## Cutch (Nov 4, 2003)

To clarify what Bryan said about chines (edges, I'm old school)...

The reason you want edges is for better tracking and carving in and out of eddies. In short it gives you better control because the edge grabs the water. This is excellent for big water paddling, which is why boats like the Diesel have very pronounced edges, partially due to the flat bottom. This is a river running boat. 

NOTE: To make an edge sharp you either have to flatten out the bottom (sometimes only slightly), or flatten out the side wall (again, maybe only slightly). River runners tend to flatten out the bottom, because a flat and often nearly vertical side wall is more difficult to roll. And, both river runners and creek boats are designed to be easy to roll, requiring rounded side walls. 

Creek boats don't have sharp edges for two reasons. A) the edges catch on rocks, resulting in spectacular down stream flips and botched lines. B) if they have a sharper edge, then they probably have a flat hull, which won't roll off the side of rocks as well. The hull sits completly flat against a flat rock, and your abs often aren't strong enough to roll the edge of the boat off of the side of the rock. This is a shallow water type boof (Luke Hopkins did a writeup on this for LP). 

Hence, creek boats are made for shallow creeks, and river runners are made for larger volume rivers. That being said, if a 'creek' is flooded and has massive holes, wave trains, and hardly any rocks that you will be scraping over, then a river running kayak such as a deisel or h3 will probably perform better on that 'creek' but it still doesn't make it a creek boat. 

prof. cutch

ps. M3 kicks the bosses ass. haha


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## Brook (Nov 22, 2003)

*Best Creeker*

STUBBY!!!


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## cayo (Mar 20, 2005)

I loves me Blunt,see no need to go new.You still see them all the time in videos and mags on expedition boating,so the wieght must not be too much of an issue.
Wasn't the Savage Maniac another cult creek boat?The Beast was a river running playboat ,but thier marketing showed guys dropping falls and creeky stuff in it,I liked that boat alot ,would buy one if it was cheap.
Nomads outfitting seems awesome
Add an Aire Force to your quiver for ELF'in


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