# Ruby Horsethief COVID Beta



## wamsley (Feb 28, 2011)

Hi all-

I have a Ruby Horsethief Permit coming up. I was curious how entering/leaving Utah was for setting up shuttle (we are setting up our own shuttle) and leaving post trip. What were your experiences?

Yes, I am aware of other COVID measures- permit is under 10 people, limit travel, etc. For this specific trip I feel confident we are within reasonableness of government orders. Please only respond if you have personal information about the above question.

Thanks.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

You might also check Colorado regs and see if your state expects you to quarantine upon your return.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

A response in the Deso-gray post today:




chiefstilh20 said:


> In addition if you are from out of state you have to fill out a form before entering Utah. ...
> 
> _*Motorists entering near state borders will receive an alert that will direct them to fill out a health declaration, or form.
> Following a recent executive order from Utah Gov. Gary Herbert, Utah will, for the first time, deploy a targeted wireless emergency alert (WEA) on certain highways that cross state borders into Utah. The alert will direct motorists to fill out a brief declaration, or survey, that is available at entry.utah.gov.
> ...


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## Nubie Jon (Dec 19, 2017)

I thought Utah pulled that tech because it rarely worked and people at home were being asked to enter info. I read that somewhere I think.


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## gdaut (Jul 30, 2019)

Nubie Jon said:


> I thought Utah pulled that tech because it rarely worked and people at home were being asked to enter info. I read that somewhere I think.


Correct. Utah has abandoned that program.


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## 2tomcat2 (May 27, 2012)

This was updated yesterday at 4:10pm:

"Mobile travel alerts were instituted last week in an effort to track who was entering the state of Utah so health officials could coordinate in case those people needed treatment or assistance.

The alerts were intended to be pushed to mobile devices for people who were driving into the state in certain highway areas just inside the border.

However, the system didn't work as officials hoped, according to Utah Department of Emergency Management spokesman Joe Dougherty. The alerts were pushed to some people who were in their homes, sometimes far away from the border, he said.

As of 12:17 p.m. Monday, the alerts have been canceled, and the state does not anticipate using such a system for pandemic-related purposes, he said.

"It was a really bold experiment," Dougherty said, noting that Utah was the first state in the nation to attempt any sort of mobile notification system for travel orders.

Some people received the alert at their homes in St. George, the Uinta Basin and Oneida County, Idaho, according to Dougherty. People were receiving the alerts 15-20 times, with some people reporting they received it 30 times, he said.

The department of emergency management narrowed the areas where alerts were being pushed, and the system showed signs of improvement Monday, but officials ultimately decided to cancel the alerts, Dougherty said.

Moving forward, people will still be asked to voluntarily fill out the declaration at entry.utah.gov, but will be notified using electronic Utah Department of Transportation signs along highways, instead of mobile alerts, Dougherty said.

Several thousand people completed the travel declaration as a result of the alerts, which helped the health department gather some important data, Dougherty said.

Though the mobile alert technology won't be used again for coronavirus purposes, the technology is available to the state and may be used in other future scenarios, he said.


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## GeoRon (Jun 24, 2015)

Great concept. I always appreciate my severe weather notifications and Amber alerts. Of course you can always turn off these notifications, I think.

May I humor myself by mentioning that some people received 15-20 notifications. Maybe if someone received 15-20 times the notification "GO HOME" that they'd get the message.

Sorry, this didn't pertain to your question.


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## GeoRon (Jun 24, 2015)

"It's just Ruby Horsethief. We won't need any first responders." a person might say.

I wonder if these hikers were boaters, after all, Mee Canyon's mouth is Ruby-Horsethief. Of course there is the other end which is also a great hike.

Please be safe. Not necessarily for your sake but for the sake of first responders who don't want to deal with out-of-towners from a hot bed of the pandemic, Denver. Well,,,, please do be careful. No want want you hurt either.

One Dead, One Rescued hiker in today's paper. Link provided.

https://www.denverpost.com/2020/04/13/hiker-death-grand-junction-mee-canyon/


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## 3d3vart (Apr 15, 2010)

GeoRon said:


> "It's just Ruby Horsethief. We won't need any first responders." a person might say.
> 
> I wonder if these hikers were boaters, after all, Mee Canyon's mouth is Ruby-Horsethief. Of course there is the other end which is also a great hike.


They hiked in from the top, as did the hikers that found them and resulted in the saving of one person's life. Maps of body location were published elsewhere, as was a quote from the Sheriff stating thanks for the hikers that found them. All is not black and white.


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## 3d3vart (Apr 15, 2010)

GeoRon said:


> Great concept. I always appreciate my severe weather notifications and Amber alerts. Of course you can always turn off these notifications, I think.
> 
> May I humor myself by mentioning that some people received 15-20 notifications. Maybe if someone received 15-20 times the notification "GO HOME" that they'd get the message.
> 
> Sorry, this didn't pertain to your question.


I received numerous notifications and I don't live in Utah nor did I ever set foot in Utah when I received the notifications. And, the notifications don't tell you to go home, btw. They tell you to fill out a short survey on your symptoms, if any. Utah is not closed to entry, this was just an attempt to track the virus and its spread. Laudable, and bold, but ultimately it didn't work.


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## StyleChief (May 19, 2004)

*Just got off, and didn't have a problem...*

We got off Friday and encountered no problems. WW was a ghost town. I-70 was eerily quiet, just semis mostly. Only 2 other trips encountered on the river, but we were there during the week. We saw 2 Mesa county sheriff's dept. jet boats blast down, then back up one day. They waved. Probably a training exercise. The Mesa county web site made a point of saying you needed no documentation to be on the roads, as they are assuming everyone has a legitimate purpose. The amendment to the Governor's order states explicitly outdoor activities are allowed "without limitation".

It's a great place to isolate! have fun.


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## americanspiritcarshuttle (Mar 17, 2020)

wamsley said:


> Hi all-
> 
> I have a Ruby Horsethief Permit coming up. I was curious how entering/leaving Utah was for setting up shuttle (we are setting up our own shuttle) and leaving post trip. What were your experiences?
> 
> ...


This is what I know about that: The sign at Loma says "Alert: Camping Closure All Colorado Parks and Wildlife campgrounds are closed effective March 26, 2020 until further notice". That means you can float Ruby / Horsethief, but must do it as a one-day. The BLM is issuing only one-day permits for Westwater.


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## blueotter (Nov 30, 2018)

StyleChief said:


> We got off Friday and encountered no problems. WW was a ghost town. I-70 was eerily quiet, just semis mostly. Only 2 other trips encountered on the river, but we were there during the week. We saw 2 Mesa county sheriff's dept. jet boats blast down, then back up one day. They waved. Probably a training exercise. The Mesa county web site made a point of saying you needed no documentation to be on the roads, as they are assuming everyone has a legitimate purpose. The amendment to the Governor's order states explicitly outdoor activities are allowed "without limitation".
> 
> It's a great place to isolate! have fun.



Did you do RH as a 1 day, or did you camp at all?


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## StyleChief (May 19, 2004)

*Ruby multiday*



blueotter said:


> Did you do RH as a 1 day, or did you camp at all?


Good question, I should have been more specific. Yes, we did a 4 day trip with a layover at BR 9. 
Regarding the other post about CO Parks and Wildlife: This is not a CPW area. I can't speak to why someone posted that at Loma, but this is a BLM regulated area. CPW has zero say in this, only CO BLM Mesa county, I believe. 

If folks are hesitant to park/launch at Loma, remember that Fruita has a dirt ramp by the bridge, NE side. You may be able to pay someone at Rimrock, just across the river, to use their ramp too. The state park ramp is currently under construction, and IS CPW regulated, so isn't an option.

Other posters are correct about WW: you have to do it in 1 day, because of Grand County policies for COVID. This is not true of R/H, as there are no camps in UT.


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## Electric-Mayhem (Jan 19, 2004)

Westwater is currently completely shut down...they cancelled and refunded all permits as of a few days ago. That is likely why Westwater was a ghost town.

From the Deso thread...



BLM_Moab said:


> BLM-managed campgrounds within the Moab Field Office will not accept any new arrivals. This campground closure is *consistent with the Southeast Utah Health Department’s public health order issued on March 16* and is subject to change as new guidance is developed. Moab Field Office-managed restrooms have been temporarily closed. The BLM is committed to the health and safety of recreational visitors and our staff. The BLM will continue to closely monitor the situation and respond as conditions change.
> 
> *Consistent with guidance from state and local health authorities*, the BLM is canceling all private river permits and commercial launches for the Westwater Canyon Special Recreation Management Area (SRMA) within the Moab Field Office until further notice. Refunds for private permits will continue to be issued. In addition, all commercial use of Labyrinth Canyon of the Green River and the Moab Daily section of the Colorado River is suspended. The health and safety of recreational visitors and our staff is our number one priority. The BLM will continue to closely monitor the situation and respond as conditions change.


Good to hear that Ruby Horsethief is still good to go and that the enforcement peeps are being reasonable. Sounds like I'd get more flack driving there then being on the river itself. Need to get my Dory out for a test run...might have to go there.


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## blueotter (Nov 30, 2018)

Thanks StyleChief


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

Sucks, everything is shut down, and from what I'm hearing will continue to be shut down for some time. My wife was accosted at the local farm and ranch store as her vehicle has AZ tags on it (we can't change to CO as the DMV is closed), when she went in to get some drugs for the cattle.. 



Have heard of others being "shamed" cause of this too. They just shut down Sand Dunes Natl Monument due to increased visitation... WTF, nobody seems to be getting the stay the Fu*k at home memo... I'm just as stir crazy as everyone else, and each time the tones drop for an ambulance call my stomach sinks, but please, please, stay the FU*K at home...


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## markfortcollins (Aug 20, 2015)

StyleChief said:


> The amendment to the Governor's order states explicitly outdoor activities are allowed "without limitation".


I want to get out and about (espeically on a river) soon. Wondering about your quote of "without limitation". This is what I read from the state website (https://covid19.colorado.gov/stay-home-except-essential-needs):

"Can I travel to other places in Colorado, like to the mountains or resort areas?

Do not take a “Colorado vacation” or go to your second home. Limit activities to your immediate community. Do not travel to mountain areas or the Western Slope. This is to prevent disease spread."

Sounds fairly "limited" to me. do not travel to the Western Slope.


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## wamsley (Feb 28, 2011)

Thank you Style Chief, I appreciate your post.

And all others- I would please ask you to read my first post. If you would like to have a discussion about the ethics of doing a Ruby Horsethief trip, or boating in general, please start a different thread.

Thank you.


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## americanspiritcarshuttle (Mar 17, 2020)

americanspiritcarshuttle said:


> This is what I know about that: The sign at Loma says "Alert: Camping Closure All Colorado Parks and Wildlife campgrounds are closed effective March 26, 2020 until further notice". That means you can float Ruby / Horsethief, but must do it as a one-day. The BLM is issuing only one-day permits for Westwater.


I mistakenly said the Ruby/Horsethief was closed to camping, based on the sign at Loma. It was brought to my attention that the river campgrounds (on the Colorado side) are not shut down and rec.gov is issuing camping permits. Sorry for any inconvenience! As always "stay safe and have fun."


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

markfortcollins said:


> I want to get out and about (espeically on a river) soon. Wondering about your quote of "without limitation". This is what I read from the state website (https://covid19.colorado.gov/stay-home-except-essential-needs):
> 
> "Can I travel to other places in Colorado, like to the mountains or resort areas?
> 
> ...



Do not travel period.. Sounds a lot like "Stay the F*ck at home" to me.. The county I live in is closed to tourism, as is Gunnison and Chaffee.. You wouldn't know it though from all the tourists, mostly from the front range..


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## StyleChief (May 19, 2004)

wamsley said:


> Thank you Style Chief, I appreciate your post.
> 
> And all others- I would please ask you to read my first post. If you would like to have a discussion about the ethics of doing a Ruby Horsethief trip, or boating in general, please start a different thread.
> 
> Thank you.


My apologies to wamsley, as this post is off topic too. I agree that ethics discussions belong elsewhere. 
The link posted above does in fact say in the YES column: "Outdoor fun, with people physically distanced at least 6 feet apart at all times". Everyone will interpret this differently, and that's understandable. The amendment to the Governor's public health order 20-24 to which I referred above says this: 
Section III A.3
"Engaging in outdoor activity, such as, by way of example and *without limitation*, walking, hiking, nordic skiing, snowshoeing, biking or running. For purposes of outdoor activity, State parks will remain open to the public to engage in walking, hiking, biking, running, and similar outdoor activities but all playgrounds, picnic areas, other similar areas conducive to public gathering, and attended areas shall be closed. For other parks, *check with the local jurisdiction* and follow any requirements for that jurisdiction. Additionally, the permitted outdoor activities in this PHO do not include activities that would violate the Social Distancing Requirement s defined in Section III.F, below."
Note that this is only a state order and has no direct applicability to federal lands such as BLM, but serves as a solid guideline for those operating in this state. Mesa county, the local jurisdiction, is clear about this:
"Stay at Home Order: The Mesa County Sheriff’s Office is operating under the presumption people who are out in the community are doing activities that are necessary and *permissible under the Governor's Stay at Home order.* "
I didn't go boating without deep contemplation and significant research. As a state-certified member of an emergency services organization, I must say that you must take responsibility for your actions and assume that you are on your own. 
My opinion FWIW: the greatest risks were gas pump handles and credit card slots. PPE was employed. Credit cards were immediately decontaminated with commercial grade EPA approved sanitizers, etc.
Be thoughtful. Be prepared.


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## hwood (Jul 9, 2011)

Just took out from Ruby Horsetheif today. No trouble getting in or out of Utah. Stay safe and have fun!


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## sarahkonamojo (May 20, 2004)

wamsley said:


> Thank you Style Chief, I appreciate your post.
> 
> And all others- I would please ask you to read my first post. If you would like to have a discussion about the ethics of doing a Ruby Horsethief trip, or boating in general, please start a different thread.
> 
> Thank you.



This is MountainBuzz. You get what you give. Don't like it, don't read it. At this time, ethics are important and need to be discussed. As they would say in the early internet days, It is a discussion board.


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## Electric-Mayhem (Jan 19, 2004)

sarahkonamojo said:


> This is MountainBuzz. You get what you give. Don't like it, don't read it. At this time, ethics are important and need to be discussed. As they would say in the early internet days, It is a discussion board.


What do you have to add that hasn't been said a hundred times already on here?

I think its completely reasonable to leave the social morality topic out of a discussion right now. It has truly been beaten to death on here and its become a socially acceptable level of bullying to make someone feel like shit for wanting to get out of the house in a safe and reasonable manner.

This isn't gonna last forever....and we have less then 10 days till the Colorado Stay at Home order will be up for review and, if things keep trending as they have been, lockdowns and restrictions will start to get relaxed. 

So...maybe give people the benefit of the doubt that they will do their best to mitigate while traveling and take precautions to minimize risk.


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## rtsideup (Mar 29, 2009)

Electric-Mayhem said:


> What do you have to add that hasn't been said a hundred times already on here?
> 
> I think its completely reasonable to leave the social morality topic out of a discussion right now. It has truly been beaten to death on here and its become a socially acceptable level of bullying to make someone feel like shit for wanting to get out of the house in a safe and reasonable manner.
> 
> ...


This.


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

Coronavirus guidelines (maybe rules). You may be prosecuted for breaking these rules depending on the county and state in which you live. However, always remember that the federal government is in charge.

1. You cannot & should not leave the house for any reason, but if you have to, then you can. You are free to stay home, you are not free to leave home. So STAY HOME. But it’s important to go out sometimes.

2. Masks are not useful if you are sick, but maybe you should wear one, it can save you, but it is mandatory as well. You will definitely not get sick with a mask, but you may still die. When you do go out, which you shouldn’t, keep a social distance of 6 to 100 feet. You must be 6 feet behind the next person in a line, however, you can be right next to the person in the line right next to your line. The virus does not travel side to side.

3. Stores are closed, except those that are open. Essential employees must work, even in stores that should be closed, but have chosen to remain open. Do not lay off any employees. The federal government will pay your employees so you don’t have to. However, if you lay them off, you may qualify for a federal grant which you may or may not need to pay back. See Rule 1.

4. You should not go to a hospital unless you have to go there. Same applies to a doctor’s office, you should only go there in case of an emergency, provided you are not too sick. Do not leave the house if you are sick. See Rule 1.

5. This virus is deadly, but not too scary, except that it will lead to a global disaster. We can contain it unless we can’t, then we will no longer try to contain it. If you want to be tested, breathe on a celebrity or professional athlete, and then wait for them to get tested.

6. Gloves won't help, but they can still help. You don’t need to wear gloves unless you want to live.

7. There is no reason for shortages in the supermarkets, but there are many things missing when you go there in the evening, but not in the morning. 
Sometimes. Also, only at risk people should go in the morning. Lastly, do not hoard toilet paper. However, even if you aren’t a toilet paper hoarder, you may want to hoard it because other hoarders are hoarding it.

8. All borders are closed unless you need to come back into the country from a foreign country or unless you need to travel to a foreign country. After returning to your home country, quarantine for 14 days with your family. Your family can still go out, but they should choose to not go out once a day if possible.

9. The virus has no effect on children except those children it affects. Schools should be closed until the end of March, no, end of April, no, end of May, no, schools should only soft-close. Schools will offer free breakfast and lunch, except the schools which charge. Your children must be with you to get a free meal from the school, but remember to not take children with you when you go.

10. Animals are not affected, but there was a cat which tested positive in Belgium in February when no human had been tested, plus a few tigers here and there. Dogs are immune so the World Health Organization (or WHO) let the dogs out. When you choose to go for a walk, all animals must be on a leash. Pets may go outside, but you should not.

11. You will have many symptoms when you are sick, but you can also get sick without symptoms, have symptoms without being sick, or be contagious without having symptoms. Those who are not sick are spreading the virus more than those who are sick. If you are sick, quarantine yourself for 14 days. If you lose your sense of taste, you have probably had the virus before it was known to be in your country.

12. In order not to get sick, you have to eat well and exercise, but eat whatever you have at home because it's better not to go out. Remember, heart disease is still killing more people per day than the virus, but there are days it does not. Lastly, please support restaurants by eating out three times per week.

13. It's better to get some fresh air, but you get glared at when you do so, and most importantly, don't go to parks. Don’t sit down outside, except that you can do that if you are old or pregnant, but not for too long. Do not travel the opposite direction on a one way sidewalk. If you walk past your house, go all the way around the block. See Rule 1.

14. You can walk around with a friend but not with your family if they don't live under the same roof. You may drive with your family, but not with your friends. Lastly, do not leave your county. If you travel across state lines, you may be stopped and questioned by the state you are leaving and the state you are entering. Truck drivers are exempted from rule 14, provided they have proper documentation, unless they are in the county of their residence, then no documentation is needed. See Rule 1.

15. The virus remains active on surfaces for 2 hours, no, 6, no, 14 days. It thrives in humidity, but not necessarily. It may die in warm weather, but it may also flourish in warm weather. We will definitely see a decrease in cases during the summer, but an increase in the winter, then a possible decrease next summer. 
This summer we will likely not see a slowdown in the number of deaths.

16 Stay quarantined until the virus disappears and then we can achieve collective immunity which, in order to occur, we must not be quarantined. The economy should be running fully by the end of May or Fall of 2041.

Got it? Clear as mud


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## GeoRon (Jun 24, 2015)

That was pretty good MNichols. Did you compile the entire list? Tough times for sure.


You missed one.
17. Obey your Governors directives because they are in charge of reopening except riot against Governors that I, King Trump, don't like.


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## sarahkonamojo (May 20, 2004)

ElectricBruise:


Just because you want it to go away and not exist at all doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Morality exists. A trip to Loma has moral implications even if there is no pandemic. Your actions impact the rest of us, pandemic or not.


And seriously, what has not been said about Ruby/HT that hasn't been said a million times. If you don't want input, then don't post it on a public forum. Call the BLM instead. What? They don't answer the phone? Ohhhh.... they might not be in the office, I heard there was a pandemic around. It might be affecting their lives as well.


Get over your selfish self. Be sure to call your mother when you are in the canyon.


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## Electric-Mayhem (Jan 19, 2004)

sarahkonamojo said:


> ElectricBruise:
> 
> 
> Just because you want it to go away and not exist at all doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Morality exists. A trip to Loma has moral implications even if there is no pandemic. Your actions impact the rest of us, pandemic or not.
> ...


:roll:

Thanks for your input. Hope that made you feel better.

Please...keep up the bullying tactics... it is super helpful and really makes everyone feel awesome.


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## jsneeb (Apr 20, 2020)

How was it on the river Hwood, or anyone else that went so far this season? I've never done this section but have a permit for Thursday. What to expect? Looks like low water right now.
I have an aluminum canoe, or a cheapo amazon inflatable raft w patch kit. Which would you suggest to float on?


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## Sparks1000 (Jul 5, 2018)

Canoe would be fine. Cold water so don't flip! Be extra careful in Black Rocks. Gets pretty swirly in there.


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## GeoRon (Jun 24, 2015)

Get your mileage in early because the afternoons can get windy especially for a canoe.


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## jsneeb (Apr 20, 2020)

Thanks. The inflatable raft is a bit more stable because it's wider. The canoe stashes my gear better though and is easier to paddle.

I'll be sure to get early starts. ( How early? It's just me and I'm a morning person so I could be out of camp and moving downstream as early as first light, so 7:15 am )

Thanks, looking for an easy beginner float and hopefully this one is it.


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## dpwater (Aug 2, 2011)

The worst wind is going to the take out where the river is broad. I remember having to oar hard (pull) all the way to WW the last time I did it. Don't think you need to start that early though.

Can't believe the permit price increase from 2 years ago. I wouldn't have noticed but the rec site stores your records.


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## blueotter (Nov 30, 2018)

Paddle the canoe and tow the raft....


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## hwood (Jul 9, 2011)

The water is as low as I’ve seen, around 3600 CFS. The sun hits the canyon around 8am, it warms up a lot at that point. I wouldn’t try to leave before you see the sun. The wind picks up after noon, you’ll travel fairly quickly in the canoe. How many nights? I don’t expect you’ll be on the water more than a few hours each day between camps.


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## GeoRon (Jun 24, 2015)

Launch early as possible. Play late on the banks after getting to camp. For what it is worth.


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## Nubie Jon (Dec 19, 2017)

Emailed today:

Hello Ruby-Horsethief Boaters! 

We hope this finds you safe and healthy. Our system shows that you have reserved a permit for Ruby-Horsethief in the last year or you have an upcoming reservation. We would like to take this opportunity to remind you precautions to follow on the river and a new update. 

First, Colorado Parks and Wildlife (CPW) reminds boaters to keep social distancing in mind when boating. In a CPW news release from April 15 CPW said, "While boating is still open, CPW urges the public to only go boating in your local area." and to "only go boating with the people who are currently living with you. Do not invite your friends or extended family to join in during this time of social distancing."

Second, please limit your group camping size to ten or fewer people. Visitors should follow online resources from the CDC at https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nCoV/index.html and the Colorado Department of Public Heath & Environment at https://covid19.colorado.gov/ , as well as local guidance to prevent the spread of infectious diseases, including maintaining social distancing while out recreating.

Finally, Currently, Ruby-Horsethief Camping permits become available for advanced reservation 60 days ahead of the entry date at Midnight MT. Beginning April 28, 2020, permits will be available for advanced reservation 60 days ahead of the entry date at 8 a.m.MT/10 a.m. ET daily. This change will allow Ruby-Horsethief permits to become available both online and at the Recreation.gov call center at the same time.

As always, please contact us with any questions, 970-244-3000 or [email protected] 

Thank you!


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