# I got $$$ which drybox?



## billfrenchvail

*RecreTec*

I really like RecrecTec. Their lids are way better than the shoe box style IMO . Give Timmy a call and he will take care of you. I'm waiting on a new box right now.


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## shappattack

madcatr


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## Sleepless

DRE! Not cheap but can take a beating!


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## tanderson

good tips...thanks.

I see that there is a difference between the two main designs. The closure that looks like a shoe box (where the lid surrounds the top of the box) and a regular lid that squishes upon the top of the box. Any advice from people with experience in both? All the companies claim superiority!!!!!

Look at AAA compared to the lid on Madcow metalworks.

AAA Inflatable Repair, Inc - The answer to all of your Whitewater Rafting and Float Fishing outfitting and equipment needs.

Aluminum Dry Boxes, Raft Frames, Custom Welding, Metal Fabrication | Mad Cow Metal Works


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## lhowemt

I have had both. Shoebox leaked in the tub brand new. It got returned and the new rolled lid one passed the bathtub test. They have much more flat surface area to hold the seal, and the lids are more rigid with that design. Mine is a recretec. The only thing I didn't like was the cable which holds the lid opened, it failed. I drilled out both rivets, and Replaced it with a piece of webbing. Neoprene washer from hardware store and aquaseal and it is good to go. I wasn't sure how long to make the webbing so I made it from two pieces and a plastic slider so it is adjustable


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## billfrenchvail

I would check these guys out as well they use thicker aluminum than the rest and charge the same worth a look IMO. DRE is super nice quality ( love their frames and tables) just not my favorite lid design , to each his own. I have had both styles on my rig. 

Aluminum Dry Boxes | Custom Welding | Contact Mad Cow Metal Works


I would look at the Materials , hinges , latches , handles , and lid design then make a choice.


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## wildh2onriver

tanderson said:


> good tips...thanks.
> 
> I see that there is a difference between the two main designs. The closure that looks like a shoe box (where the lid surrounds the top of the box) and a regular lid that squishes upon the top of the box. Any advice from people with experience in both? All the companies claim superiority!!!!!
> 
> Look at AAA compared to the lid on Madcow metalworks.
> 
> AAA Inflatable Repair, Inc - The answer to all of your Whitewater Rafting and Float Fishing outfitting and equipment needs.
> 
> Aluminum Dry Boxes, Raft Frames, Custom Welding, Metal Fabrication | Mad Cow Metal Works


The only two flips I've had (so far) involved the DRE 'shoe box' design. Both were not completely dry after the re-flip--but we're talking a sponge full of water. One involved several miles after flipping at Skull--maybe 30 minutes before we could get it out of the current at very high water. 

Keep the gaskets in good repair.


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## cataraftgirl

Partner Steel. Sturdy, no problems so far, custom size, middle of the road price, and super fast service. I'm up in Pokie fairly often, so I can stop in to chat with them if needed. They are shoebox style, so it depends on what you prefer.


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## Billy Goat

Give Ken at River Connection a call and ask about custom boxes...he hooked me super good. Sweet boxes, nice seal, any dimension, crazy low shipping.


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## slamkal

Own both. Think folded lip design is better than shoebox. The top lid seems much more rigid too, and it closes with less scraping

Both lids are reinforced to allow stomping on it. 

I dont know if either design is more prone to leaks cause i keep my shit right side up


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## climbdenali

I had my DRE drybox for 6 years. Took it back 3 times to have the corners underneath the lid re-welded; they kept cracking.

It was a monster sized box for my 18' Riken, and was good for keeping everything in. After that, though, I'm over the giant drybox concept of rigging, and I'm moving on to hatched drop bags and smaller side boxes. The "coffin" box was too big to keep track of lots of stuff in, was too big to move and load into the boat easily even with 2 people, and frankly, I didn't feel very comfortable knowing that if it got soaked, it was basically all the eggs in one basket. 

If I ever do change my mind and get another big drybox, it won't be DRE.


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## BCJ

Go custom too, whatever you choose. You can get 3-6" more inches on each side if you order it the interior width of the boat, and you can shorten it so it won't stick way up above the height of your frame. All the standard boxes are 16" high. 15" and you can keep the whole box, except the lid, below your frame, if you put your butterfly latches on the side corners, instead of in front where the frame bar interferes. You're always gonna have straps over it anyway, so moving those latches won't hurt.


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## BryanS.

Does anyone have any experience with the EddyOut dry box that NRS sells? The reviews on NRS's site are positive and it looks solid.


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## eze420

Just upgraded from a Trib 14' to a 156R last fall. Had a DRE box in the Trib for 6 seasons no problems.

Nothing against DRE, but did some research went with Todd at Aluminum Dry Boxes, Raft Frames, Custom Welding, Metal Fabrication | Mad Cow Metal Works

Got my main box and 2 captains...these are far superior quality for the same $$. Check it out.


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## BCJ

I hear a lot of talk about "solid," "leak," "seal", "lid" but if you don't plan to be upside down in your raft most of the time focus more on size. Most of them are made with similar strength alumi, they may have different lid designs, and they usually don't take on water from splash and thus, are called dryboxes. In a big hairy flip or wrap situation, though, they're not Pelican cases - - they can and do leak. Over time you'll find that size and how it fits on your boat become the main focus, IMO. I ran for years, commercially, with dryboxes made from plywood. Not as good as alumi, but they functioned and kept most water out. 90% of the purpose of a so-called "drybox" is having a large storage area to put things in without a lot of straps necessary, and if it keeps rain, splash and waves at bay while boating, all the better. The rest is fluff.


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## ENDOMADNESS

I have one from Cambridge (almost 15 years old). 

It is a kitchen box that has tables that attached to both sides. I have yet to see one like it since 9it was a wedding present and obviously custom). The side tables are so useful and stow away together in a perfect small assembly that holds the legs also. tables are about 36" x 10".


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## lhowemt

BCJ- it sounds like you have a flip a-coming with a dry-goods food laden raft!


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## fancyplants

I hate to say it- but don't get a Frontierplay box (I know that they are a sponsor, but.....) They warrantied the first box (thanks for that) but both the first and second (replacement box) failed on their first use. Bummer!


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## TriBri1

BryanS. said:


> Does anyone have any experience with the EddyOut dry box that NRS sells? The reviews on NRS's site are positive and it looks solid.


I have an Eddy Out box. I picked it up from NRS last year. I have also had a Recretec custom made on my old boat. Both were high quality and similar in build and design and airtight. I learned the hard way when I closed it up at the takeout on a hot day and drove home and had a hard time opening it when I got back to sea level and Portland temps.

it is worth asking about custom sizes, I think the Recretec only cost a few bucks more to go custom.

Ditto on Frontier Play boxes. If you need a box and you need it cheap then go for it, but I found issues with the latches and the hinges.


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## BoilermakerU

BryanS. said:


> Does anyone have any experience with the EddyOut dry box that NRS sells? The reviews on NRS's site are positive and it looks solid.


I have the Eddy Out kitchen box, and I really like it so far. It's never been submerged (knock on wood), but it's been sturdy and I prefer the folded lip design. Just seems better to me.


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## wildsoles

*love our dryboxes*

We have used Frontier Play dryboxes for years and have been really happy with them. We do little rivers and big water, with both rafts and catboats, so they've seen a lot of river miles. The gaskets seem to hold up better than some of the bigger brands we used to use.


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## dgrogue

My choice was one from Canyon Inflatables. Great Box, Great Sevice!

Dryboxes


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## tanderson

good advice. Thanks to all for their suggestions!!!

Cheers,

Troy
SLC, UT


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## FrontierPlay

As the owner of FrontierPlay I would like to add some information about our dry boxes and why they are unique. We've been manufacturing dry boxes for over 9 years. As simple as a dry box may seem we continue to add small improvements which add to the quality of our dry boxes.

Almost all the dry boxes on the market use rivets to attach the hardware such as handles, hinges, and lid cables. Over time the stress on the rivets become a weak point where water can and will enter the box. Rivets are so much faster and less money to use when building a box but affect the purpose of building a dry box, rivets leak over time.

We use a bolt with a rubber and metal washer which is smashed down with the nut. As simple thing as a rubber washer actually became a challenge. We wanted a large enough rubber washer that when smashed down created a large flat water sealing surface. We ended up creating the tooling equipment needed just to turn out this larger rubber washer.

Our latest improvement we went with a larger metal washer to give the special rubber washer more surface area to be smashed down.

An issue that we had with a lot of dry boxes before we got into the business is the rigid aluminum would split at the seams over time. We went with a softer aluminum which allows it to flex and not split at the welds. The softer aluminum scratches easier but it's just as rugged. 

Our biggest marketing battle is our price. People feel that our boxes must be cheap and not a quality product because our boxes are half of what our competitors are charging. We sell direct to the end user. We do not have a markup price for our distributor and then an additional mark up for the Dealer. 

Our core business is warehousing and transportation so the infrastructure is in place to save money which is passed on to the end user.

Wow I haven't even covered our double seal system. 

I wrote way too much, sorry for the long comment.


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## TriBri1

I truly appreciate the extra knowledge your shared about the way you build your boxes. The only issues I have ever had with your boxes is the hinge and the latch. 

Hinge: Why do you choose to use two small hinges instead of a piano hinge?

Latch: The locking tab on the latch, it constantly getting bent which makes it hard to securely close the box. Most often it is being hit on the frame or my knee... Have you considered another style of latch?


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## Avatard

TriBri1 said:


> I truly appreciate the extra knowledge your shared about the way you build your boxes. The only issues I have ever had with your boxes is the hinge and the latch.
> 
> Hinge: Why do you choose to use two small hinges instead of a piano hinge?
> 
> Latch: The locking tab on the latch, it constantly getting bent which makes it hard to securely close the box. Most often it is being hit on the frame or my knee... Have you considered another style of latch?


If you read his post you would have clearly deduced that the hinges, latches, and hodgepodge assortment of rusty bolts, nuts, and self tapping screws is the best way to create a dry-box

Regarding the lacerations to your leg, i refer you to frontier play's vendor of drysuit in Laos. 

They put an extra thick layer of tire tread on the calf to protect you from those superior latches. (Cause everyone i know on the river needs to padlock their drybox to keep their sidearms secure)


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## FrontierPlay

Yeah the original latches did come with a locking tab. We were selling to multiple end users who requested boxes they could lock. Apparently they didn't trust their friends while recreating. 

We went back to our core end user and switched to the standard Southco latch found on most dry boxes.

Guilty....there is a hodgepodge of bolts which isn't as cosmetically pleasing as a rivet. We wanted a box that would stay dry even though the hardware doesn't all match. A handle has a different strength requirements than a latch keeper or lid cable bolt. 

A piano hinge looks nice but adds additional holes that need to be drilled into the box for mounting which creates another point for water to enter the box. The lid hinges are solid. You don't see piano hinges on doors.


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## ajacobo

FrontierPlay said:


> Yeah the original latches did come with a locking tab. We were selling to multiple end users who requested boxes they could lock. Apparently they didn't trust their friends while recreating.
> 
> We went back to our core end user and switched to the standard Southco latch found on most dry boxes.
> 
> Guilty....there is a hodgepodge of bolts which isn't as cosmetically pleasing as a rivet. We wanted a box that would stay dry even though the hardware doesn't all match. A handle has a different strength requirements than a latch keeper or lid cable bolt.
> 
> A piano hinge looks nice but adds additional holes that need to be drilled into the box for mounting which creates another point for water to enter the box. The lid hinges are solid. You don't see piano hinges on doors.


Does anyone have any information on PRO dry boxes?


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## TriBri1

FrontierPlay said:


> Guilty....there is a hodgepodge of bolts which isn't as cosmetically pleasing as a rivet. We wanted a box that would stay dry even though the hardware doesn't all match. A handle has a different strength requirements than a latch keeper or lid cable bolt.


I don't mind the hodgepodge of of nuts and bolts as long as they do the job. I'm not planning on disassembling the thing...

Also thanks for your thoughts on piano hinges.




ajacobo said:


> Does anyone have any information on PRO dry boxes?


PRO boxes seem stout, we used the captain's boxes when we ran the canyon. Had two flips and I think they stayed dry. One thing to note, they don't come with latches, you use straps to hold them closed when they are rigged in the raft. With the way the boats are rigged, it seems to work well. Of course they have their systems dialed...


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## Merch

*Dry Boxes*

I'll build any size box anyone needs, completely tig welded aluminum no bending. You customize if you want. Durango, Chris


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## CBrown

AAA built me a sweet custom sized box for a 13'. It came out sweet and my kids like checking out the bird down there.


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## Kayakmedic

*I like them*

I have been using the Frontier Play dry boxes for a number of years now, sometimes putting close to 1000 miles in on one season (Grand, Yampa, Green, Middle Fork, and Hell’s Canyon to name a few). Right now I am building three new frames that I will be using on a Grand trip this May. What brand of boxes am I putting into them? Easy choice: Frontier Play! Over the years I have had a number of much more expensive “damp boxes”, and without a doubt the driest continue to be best value for my dollar, Frontier Play. The old saying “you get what you pay for” well sometimes you do get a lot more than you pay for.
Andy


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## Osseous

CBrown said:


> AAA built me a sweet custom sized box for a 13'. It came out sweet and my kids like checking out the bird down there.



Bird is no more- touchy subject


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## blutzski

Are Frontier Play boxes the best of both worlds? It looks like they encorporate both the shoebox and whatever that system recretec uses is called. I have a shoebox drybox (DRE) and have to say I was less than impressed with it's waterproofness after a flip.


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## TriBri1

I'm seeing a dryness test in my near future. I may have to ask around and see how many box manufacture boxes I can round up in the Portland area. I have an eddy out, I can get a frontier play and maybe a recretec.


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## Avatard

TriBri1 said:


> I'm seeing a dryness test in my near future. I may have to ask around and see how many box manufacture boxes I can round up in the Portland area. I have an eddy out, I can get a frontier play and maybe a recretec.


I've got a canyon inflatables and whatever they sell at Andy and Bax. Pm me


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## TriBri1

Avatard said:


> I've got a canyon inflatables and whatever they sell at Andy and Bax. Pm me


Andy and Bax either has Recretec or Eddyout depending on if they order from NRS or local. It would be good to get a line on a Cambridge. I think they sell them through river connection. I'm trying to think of a good way to test. At first thought is to put 5 gallons of water in each and see which one springs first. Of course with boxes of different sizes, you are not comparing apples to apples. Maybe calculating psi to lid seam.

Another test option would be to submerge the box and see how dry it is at the end of the time. It would be easy to measure the amount of water that leaks into the box after a given time.


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## GC Guide

This picture is of a 51X17X18X .080 box bottom after the foam has been removed. This box has been TIG welded on all sides except the top lip. Folding sheet metal makes it stronger! The bottom of this box has warped by more that half an inch due to heat from welding. Camper foam tape or any gasket like that will more than likely leak in a whitewater situation. The bottom line is..... You will get what you pay for! Cheers!


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## BryanS.

TriBri1 said:


> I'm seeing a dryness test in my near future. I may have to ask around and see how many box manufacture boxes I can round up in the Portland area. I have an eddy out, I can get a frontier play and maybe a recretec.


I ordered a Frontier Play box today. I really like their kitchen box, but it's too long for my boat. I'll test it out when it arrives and post results.


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## FrontierPlay

*Dry box test video*

Someone suggested doing a pressure wash test on the dry box hardware. Quality is not the best but the test is good.

FrontierPlay Dry Box Pressure Test - YouTube


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## BryanS.

FrontierPlay said:


> Someone suggested doing a pressure wash test on the dry box hardware. Quality is not the best but the test is good.
> 
> FrontierPlay Dry Box Pressure Test - YouTube


Nice. Taking my new boat with my new box down the middle Owyhee next week.


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## TriBri1

BryanS. said:


> I ordered a Frontier Play box today. I really like their kitchen box, but it's too long for my boat. I'll test it out when it arrives and post results.


Bummer that it is too long for the boat. I may have someone interested in buying it from you... I'll check with him and PM you if he is game.

So for a test I am thinking...

Place the box upside down in a bathtub with nothing in the box. Put some weight on top of the box. I'm thinking a full 5 gallon jug should do it. Then fill the bathtub to 1 foot, if the box floats then put more weight on the box. Wait 1 hour. Drain the tub, unweight the box. Open it up and measure the amount of water in the box with a measuring cup. Anyone who wants to try it, go for it and post your results as well as the type of box and size.

My guess is that all boxes will leak, it just depends on how much.


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## Avatard

Save yourself some time if you obviously don't have a complete gasket


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## TriBri1

For sh!ts and giggles, I'll soak a rocket box and ammo can too. I should have a chance to test this weekend.


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## BryanS.

TriBri1 said:


> Bummer that it is too long for the boat. I may have someone interested in buying it from you... I'll check with him and PM you if he is game.
> 
> All good man. I ordered the right size dry box. Just couldn't order the kithen box because I didn't think it would fit, but after receiving and measuring the boat(aire130d), the kitchen box would have fit. I may still get it if the first one holds up. I ordered the 37" box and it'll be here tomorrow.


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## blutzski

TriBri1 said:


> So for a test I am thinking...
> 
> Place the box upside down in a bathtub with nothing in the box. Put some weight on top of the box. I'm thinking a full 5 gallon jug should do it. Then fill the bathtub to 1 foot, if the box floats then put more weight on the box. Wait 1 hour. Drain the tub, unweight the box. Open it up and measure the amount of water in the box with a measuring cup. Anyone who wants to try it, go for it and post your results as well as the type of box and size.
> 
> My guess is that all boxes will leak, it just depends on how much.


I don't think any test will replicate the real life conditions of a raft flip; when the top of the drybox is forced upside down underwater by raft weighing a few hundred pounds and 60 pounds of dutch ovens, cookware, stoves, etc. are laying on the lid made of 0.080 aluminum.


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## lhowemt

blutzski said:


> I don't think any test will replicate the real life conditions of a raft flip; when the top of the drybox is forced upside down underwater by raft weighing a few hundred pounds and 60 pounds of dutch ovens, cookware, stoves, etc. are laying on the lid made of 0.080 aluminum.


That is correct, however it will give some measure of how/if water tight they are. As I mentioned earlier, my Cambridge one leaked upside down in a bathtub of water, Recretec did not. Guess which one I have now?


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## Avatard

lhowemt said:


> That is correct, however it will give some measure of how/if water tight they are. As I mentioned earlier, my Cambridge one leaked upside down in a bathtub of water, Recretec did not. Guess which one I have now?


Frontier?


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## GC Guide

blutzski said:


> I don't think any test will replicate the real life conditions of a raft flip; when the top of the drybox is forced upside down underwater by raft weighing a few hundred pounds and 60 pounds of dutch ovens, cookware, stoves, etc. are laying on the lid made of 0.080 aluminum.


.080 is not stout enough for this size box IMHO. .100" or .125 is much better for larger size boxes. Also consider that white water wil put pressures on a box that may not be able to be simulated very well in a bathtub or other vessel. Maybe try the pressure washer underwater while in a bathtub. (just not in my house!)


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## MT4Runner

If it leaks in the bathtub, it WILL leak in the river.

If it doesn't leak in the tub, it only might leak in the rio.


If 0.125 Al is the material of choice, then why not just go to 20ga steel? That thick and you've given up aluminum's weight savings. May as well go to steel that is more easily fabricated, tougher, less fatigue over time, and use the savings to get it powder coated. Use a relatively thin wall angle or square tube to fabricate a bomber lip.


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## TriBri1

Maybe I'll drive my boxes out to the Clackamas, fill them up, tie them to a throwbag and toss them in Bob's Hole. Let them chunder for 20 minutes or so then pull them out. That should do it.

I figure the bathtub is the most controlled test and would be the closest to a flip that takes a while to right. It would not at all represent a wrap or any other more dynamic water event. Hopefully, the worst a box will go through is a flip. If you end up with a wrap, you should just be happy to recover your gear in any condition.


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## GC Guide

MT4Runner said:


> If 0.125 Al is the material of choice, then why not just go to 20ga steel? That thick and you've given up aluminum's weight savings. May as well go to steel that is more easily fabricated, tougher, less fatigue over time, and use the savings to get it powder coated. Use a relatively thin wall angle or square tube to fabricate a bomber lip.


20 ga. sheet steel (A36) will warp significantly from welding, just like .080 aluminum. Over time, the sheet steel will develop rust under the powder coat and longevity would be significantly compromised.


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## MT4Runner

Yes and no. Continuous beads will warp--stitch welds won't. Good point about long-term rust. 

If you clamp the part securely while welding, it won't warp as much.


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## Mcnasty

Cambridge welding In Idaho makes the best dry box ever his name is Cy Wert his number is 1 (208) 257-3589.


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## MT4Runner

I'm guessing you've seen a lot of dry boxes, GC Guide. Ever seen any fiberglass or wood boxes (glassed) that have held up over time, or is aluminum pretty much the best solution overall?


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## Mcnasty

MT4Runner said:


> I'm guessing you've seen a lot of dry boxes, GC Guide. Ever seen any fiberglass or wood boxes (glassed) that have held up over time, or is aluminum pretty much the best solution overall?


The only thing that I can speak for is the aluminum.


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## Wavester

I agree, those are the best I have seen...fyi AAA in Denver uses Cambridge to weld their boxes, both custom and their standard sizes





Mcnasty said:


> Cambridge welding In Idaho makes the best dry box ever his name is Cy Wert his number is 1 (208) 257-3589.


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## GC Guide

As for Camridge, they use camper foam style gaskets (not good) and their boxes warp like no tomorrow from the welding heat, see my previous post. Mt4, I have looked into molding dry boxes with carbon fiber, unfortunately in my tests it does not hold up and will crack with point pressure such as a sharp rock. If you were to stitch weld that would reduce the overall warping but fabrication time would go up significantly waiting for each stitch to cool. Yes MT4 I have seen, built, tested, used and repaired 100's of dry boxes of all shapes, styles and manufacturers! Also, clamping the bottom of a 15 -18" deep box can be very challenging, indeed!


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## blutzski

GC Guide said:


> Yes MT4 I have seen, built, tested, used and repaired 100's of dry boxes of all shapes, styles and manufacturers!


So then back to the original question... What is the best commercially available drybox. Inquiring minds want to know!


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## GC Guide

blutzski said:


> So then back to the original question... What is the best commercially available drybox. Inquiring minds want to know!


Blutz,
I would not be able to comment on that as I am not a "partner". But there is a company out of flagstaff that makes boxes to keep $100K+ equipment safe for Grand Canyon Monitoring and Research Center (USGS).


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## BryanS.

Got my box just now. A little disappointed to see it's made in china. I prefer to keep my money here in 'merica. Top gasket is rubber, bottom gasket is cheap foam that has 2 holes in it. Going for the bathtub test now.


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## BryanS.

Got my box just now from FrontierPlay. Kinda disappointed to find out it was made in china. I prefer to keep my money here in 'Merica. Top gasket looks good. Bottom gasket looks like weather stripping and has holes worn in both front corners. Doing the bathtub test now. Oops sorry for dbl post. On my phone.


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## orto11

All that pressure washing and still couldn't wash the china stink off of it!  you would be really mad if you knew what they paid for that box. 

I think I would rather buy a usa box and get a good product and have someone make 100.00 off of me, then buy a chinese product that is ok and have them make 225.00 off of me. The whole rivet claim is BS, thats why they only bolt airplanes right?

Nice made in the usa raft though! The raft is like buying an escalade and the box is like putting hub cap spinners from walmart on it.

I am looking at that same raft for this season, what frame are you running?







BryanS. said:


> View attachment 5728
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> View attachment 5729
> 
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> View attachment 5730
> 
> 
> Got my box just now from FrontierPlay. Kinda disappointed to find out it was made in china. I prefer to keep my money here in 'Merica. Top gasket looks good. Bottom gasket looks like weather stripping and has holes worn in both front corners. Doing the bathtub test now. Oops sorry for dbl post. On my phone.


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## BryanS.

Had I known it was made in china, I would not have bought it. On a positive note: flipped box upside down and sat on it submerged in tub for 10 minutes and no leaks. Going to pick up a recretec frame now. I think its called spider. Will post pics on raft porn when I return tonight from Portland.


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## TriBri1

The Test:
One hour soak in the bathtub in 1 foot of water.

The Results:
Eddy Out Aluminum Dry Box 38L x 16H x 13D at NRSweb.com Purchased March 2012
At first I thought it was bone dry, but then when I looked again there was about 2 tablespoons of water trapped in the lip in the lid. It looks like the water came in at the lid seal. After an hour submerged, I'm of with that.

Rocket Box
Bone dry, the gasket is in fair shape

Ammo Can
Bone dry, gasket is in fair shape

Small Ammo Can
3/4 cup of water, to be fair though I use this can for firepan ash, I would guess the gasket has been heated a few times.


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## BryanS.

False advertising. So. The pitch for why these boxes are half the price: They cut out the middle man. I call bullshit. FrontierPlay is the middle man. The manufacturer is in china. FrontierPlay will not be getting any more money from this guy. If they are happy having their products made in china, they should own that. Tell people it's made in china. Look at pic. Handles are also tack welded in addition to nuts and bolts. Why not tack weld all the hardware to eliminate all holes. Because tack welds break.


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## slamkal

BryanS. said:


> False advertising. So. The pitch for why these boxes are half the price: They cut out the middle man. I call bullshit. FrontierPlay is the middle man. The manufacturer is in china. FrontierPlay will not be getting any more money from this guy. If they are happy having their products made in china, they should own that. Tell people it's made in china. Look at pic. Handles are also tack welded in addition to nuts and bolts. Why not tack weld all the hardware to eliminate all holes. Because tack welds break.


It's always good to know i can find spare hardware in my nuts and bolts drawer to replace these screws when they rust


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## mtriverrat

We just got two boxes from Mad Cow Metal Works in Bozeman. They are a thing of beauty. You can look at them in the Cascade Outfitters catalog or go to his web site. I'm telling you - I was very impressed.


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## mindyrivergirl

Madcow MetalWorks! Don't bother buying anything else!


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## Anchorless

I just picked up a MadCow box at the IWA swap. 

Daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaammmmmmmmmmmmnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn!


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## mindyrivergirl

I told you !!!!!


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## wildsoles

For what it's worth, we've used Frontier Play boxes for years, on big water trips and on multiple boats, and have been super happy with them.


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