# Maravia Raft Bubbles? "Birth Marks"?



## rusty7400 (19 d ago)

Hi all,

Picked up our new Maravia Zephyr a few days ago and have several uncertain findings. Between what Maravia calls "birthmarks" and what also appear to be separations from d-ring patches and such. I have read a couple forums but I would ask, is this normal or going to create issues?

Thanks,

*UPDATE!!! 12/27 8 PM*

I received an email back from Maravia today. They were apologetic and very customer service oriented. They are building us a new boat while allowing us to use this one until the new one is built. While this should not have found itself ever delivered, crap happens, and mistakes happen. Maravia has always been a good company in our minds, and the customer service we experienced today proved that they are still driven by the same values they have had. While it sucks that we have to wait longer for a new raft, we still have an operable raft. 

Thank you to everyone who gave advice and shared their experiences. My desire with this post was to determine normality in rafts and in this case, confirm what I thought were abnormalities. I purchased the frame and raft through a dealer that genuinely cared about quality and helped me navigate the process for defects. If you need what I would consider the best frames in the industry, consider a Recretec frame from Corvallis. 

Thanks again, everyone. 

Rusty

Rusty


----------



## TruckeeSagebrush (4 mo ago)

I’ve had the same thing in mine, maybe not quite as bad. A few have developed tiny tiny pin holes after a few hundred miles of use. Maravia said that is “normal”…sitting in my garage it would lose 75% of air over the course of 3ish weeks .I dunno ….they said thry would fix them , if I cover the shipping…. I’m honestly not sure how I feel about the situation


----------



## TruckeeSagebrush (4 mo ago)

There are like 4 or 5 spots like this throughout the raft


----------



## mkashzg (Aug 9, 2006)

The little birthmarks are one thing, but if there is actually a separation already on the D ring that is a problem. I think that is unacceptable for a new boat and I would be contacting them to see what your options are. That really sucks! Let us know what you find out.

There are also several people who frequent this site that do professional raft repair, and they may have some opinions or suggestions also.


----------



## Mikec (Mar 8, 2019)

I’ve owned three Maravia rafts/catarafts over the last 20 years, all purchased used, and have never seen anything remotely close to this. I still have the 14’ cat(2006) and the Diablo(2008), love them both. Gotta say, I’d be concerned with the issues you’re experiencing, especially with a new build.


----------



## PNWWonderer (6 mo ago)

I bought a Zephyr late summer. Brand new... I've had similar issues. My floor valve had to replaced, Would [not] hold a seal. This was before I even used it. My tubes have also had issues being consistent with holding air. I even bought a couple Trib caps to monitor the pressure. When I called Maravia about it (DRE), they wanted me to pay for shipping on repairs. I'm really bummed about that level of service for a new raft. Regardless, I'm living with the very small what appears to be air slowly leaking. 

Reading this thread, I'm starting to think I'd be hesitant to recommend what my researched told me was a "bomber" raft.


----------



## cuzin (Oct 4, 2007)

A new raft that has pinhole leak is not acceptable. A raft should not lose 75% of its air in 3 weeks. That’s dumb. That is not a repair, that’s a manufacturing defect and I’d raise holy hell if the manufacturer wanted me to pay shipping to fix it. 

A good company should stand behind its incredibly expensive gear. You should expect your new gear to be damn near flawless. rusty7400 truckeesagebrush don’t accept Maravia’s fuck up and make them send you a new raft and they can pay shipping to send their garbage back to them.


----------



## Will Amette (Jan 28, 2017)

If you paid with a credit card, dispute the charge. A defective product that comes with a warranty is not acceptable if the warranty doesn't include a way for them to cover ALL the costs of making it right. Well, unless the fine print says so. In which case you were fully informed and will just need to get some lube because.... 

Surely they inflated it before they rolled it and shipped it. Once you get the card company to refund your purchase, Maravia might be willing to pay the shipping to have you send it back. Tell them they can have it if they come get it or pay shipping because it's not what you bought.

My 22-year-old NRS E-series has some "blemishes," but it didn't come from the factory with them.

Thanks for sharing. If I ever have to retire and replace my boat, or if I want a smaller one, I won't look to Maravia unless they can fix their process. What happened over there? Did they lose their good boat builders to better work during the Great Resignation? 

Tell them maybe to cover all costs of a local repair, plus 20%, and maintain the warranty and see if they'll do that. Then you'll get it fixed with a few bucks in your pocket and still have the boat you really wanted.


----------



## jbLaramie (Feb 1, 2021)

Agree with above, those are more than “birthmarks”. Disappointed to hear of this given Maravia’s reputation. Think about stuff like this in terms of how they’d affect resale. My old saturn didn’t leak any air over months and would have flipped my gourd if my new hyside had ANY problems. You saved $ and waited for this baby so shouldn’t have to settle.


----------



## Whitewater Worthy Equip (Dec 11, 2013)

Talk with the manufacture before inviting in the shitshow we call the internet. At least give them the opportunity to address the issue. I hope you are able to get this addressed. They make a good product. 



rusty7400 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Will Amette (Jan 28, 2017)

Whitewater Worthy Equip said:


> Talk with the manufacture before inviting in the shitshow we call the internet. At least give them the opportunity to address the issue. I hope you are able to get this addressed. They make a good product.


He said he did, and they told him he would have to pay to ship it.


----------



## PDX Duck (Mar 17, 2015)

My input having owned a brand new Maravia circa 2010. Please note I have little to no technical manufacturing / fabrication skills and would never do a repair myself.

- Picture 2: I assume this is just a gap between D-ring and raft; crevice created from application of urethane topcoat; probably not an issue but could have been easily been filled in with any semblance of “Pride of Ownership”. I have looked at pictures of my raft, had views of 50%+ of D-rings and most thwart knuckles and nothing remotely like this

- Picture 2 Bubbles: I recall having some of these, but very minimal; my issue with this area given the D-ring crevice is that they did not spray a sufficient thickness of urethane here

- Picture 3 and 4: F*ck that - absolutely my raft did not have these manufacturing errors / poor workmanship. In other words, birthmark my ass! I would return immediately.

You could have bought a supposedly inferior product and saved almost 50%. You did not - and because you paid a premium you should get a premium product.

Please note that I am not a Maravia hater by any means - loved that raft and only sold it because I was leaving the country / needed a larger boat anyways. In my mind it was always the best boat on the river - your boat does not strike me as such and certainly not the same build quality.


----------



## Electric-Mayhem (Jan 19, 2004)

Will Amette said:


> He said he did, and they told him he would have to pay to ship it.


The person who started the thread did not say that.... he just asked if what he is seeing on his new boat is normal.

Another poster, Truckee Sagebrush, said he's seeing signs of a new boat that he has used for a few hundred miles develop pinhole leaks.

I agree that one should definitely give the manufacturer the opportunity to make it right first before posting but I also agree that boats with these kinds of issues shouldn't have left the factory in this state either and if they aren't willing to make it right then take more drastic measures.

My understanding of the Urethane coating process is that its gonna be pretty hard to fix these issues without it being very obvious to a level where I would consider the boat to be a cosmetic blem afterwards. Its pretty hard to get the colors to match well and I'm guess it'll take a bunch of sanding the urethane coating off to make it work. Perhaps they can just sand the blem spots off and respray the whole boat, but that is gonna add weight and make it even harder to roll then it already is.


----------



## Wallrat (Jan 19, 2021)

If this is the quality of workmanship that’s going out the door, you’re absolutely correct to post the hell out of it. I’m awaiting delivery now of a pair of their 13’ cat tubes…will they look like this? In 2023, those cat tubes will cost nearly $4k, with delivery being extra. The flaws you’ve shown don’t look like something I’d want to spend that kind of money on.
The first two pictures look to me like the urethane wasn’t put on heavily enough. The “birth marks” look like pinhole leaks in the pvc fabric that caused the urethane to bubble when it was wet. I’d be very interested to see what happens when you put some soapy water on those. Bad.bad.bad.
By way of comparison, my Star Kima cat tubes (13’ also) hold air forever. For $1500.


----------



## PDX Duck (Mar 17, 2015)

I am certainly over simplifying but I would assume sand and respray of problem areas would be required. Personally I would not accept anything less than a new boat.

Would color match be that significant of a problem? Not a special order color and there are many Decepticon Green Maravias out there…


----------



## KlaustheK (Mar 20, 2021)

Both of my new saturns looked better than that when new. still do after several years of use. I think that is completely unacceptable.


----------



## rusty7400 (19 d ago)

Good morning all. To be clear, I am not posting to trash talk Maravia, just looking for guidance. I want to make sure this is not common and I am not being a "knot picky buyer". We too have had Maravia rafts over the years and loved them, this is a drastic change from normal I feel but was looking for guidance. I have coomunication out to Maravia and will update with their response. 

Thank you.

R


----------



## SheepEater (Jul 9, 2020)

I saw a couple of posts like these while I was waiting for my boat. I was scared it would turn out with the defects they keep describing, but luckily, there wasn't too much off about mine (one D-Ring was at a slight but noticeable angle, and the valves I had moved were clearly eyeballed instead of using a template, so they aren't perfectly symmetrical). But, I would have raised hell if there had been these on my boat, especially if they were leaking air. I like Maravia boats, but I probably wouldn't buy another one knowing this is a possibility and knowing how they've responded in the past. Or I should say I won't buy one without seeing it in person first.


----------



## SpudCat (Aug 24, 2020)

For what boats cost--especially high-end products like Maravia--I would expect nothing less than flawless construction. That looks like sloppy work and I would ask for a replacement that meets a higher standard.

They should do better quality control... letting something like this out the door as a full-price item is lame. It should be their bad for sloppy work and listed as a reduced-price blemished item.


----------



## SlimShady (Jan 8, 2021)

Dang. I would be bummed if that was how my new maravia showed up. I ordered a zephyr in January 2022 and received it around July. It has a few (I mean 2-3) that are the size of a pen tip. I also had a great buying experience with them, great service, clear communication and realistic expectations about when it would be built/delivered.

For 8k...I would call them up and try to get it repaired or replaced free of cost. They come with a 10 year warranty... pinholes out of the box is unacceptable. You may have to pay shipping out there, but set the expectation that if they see what you see, they reimburse you for it. Shit happens and sometimes things squeeze out the door that really shouldn't. Give them the opportunity to make it right.


----------



## rusty7400 (19 d ago)

SlimShady said:


> Dang. I would be bummed if that was how my new maravia showed up. I ordered a zephyr in January 2022 and received it around July. It has a few (I mean 2-3) that are the size of a pen tip. I also had a great buying experience with them, great service, clear communication and realistic expectations about when it would be built/delivered.
> 
> For 8k...I would call them up and try to get it repaired or replaced free of cost. They come with a 10 year warranty... pinholes out of the box is unacceptable. You may have to pay shipping out there, but set the expectation that if they see what you see, they reimburse you for it. Shit happens and sometimes things squeeze out the door that really shouldn't. Give them the opportunity to make it right.


I think this is realistic and I have a call and email in. Unfortunately it also has an air leak. I thought it was just perhaps how much air I added but after filling it twice, its 50 percent deflated after 24 hours. I like Maravia, I am hopeful they will honor their past practices and make it right.


----------



## twoguns (Jun 4, 2011)

I have owned four Maravia rafts. Loved all of them on the river but at the end of the day, they are still a plastic boat. That said, a new Maravia should hold air drum tight for weeks in a garage. $8K for brand new leaky boat is is an unacceptable new norm. What is shown in those pictures is just extremely poor workmanship. George would never have sent that boat out the door as a "new, normal" Maravia and I would not have left the building with that boat. Maravia can make a great boat. Hopefully people hold their feet to the fire on QA/QC.


----------



## Jamo (May 27, 2021)

I had a similar situation. I had a MF permit and wanted a bigger raft. I ordered my Williwawa II with custom graphics from the Trailhead in Missoula. When I went to pick it up the first thing I saw was a defect, aka blemish, in the urethane. I looked at the other Maravias in the showroom and did not see anything close to what my raft had. To say I was totally heart broken. I refused to pick it up. Thinking that once I took possession, it would be harder to get any kind of satisfaction. 

Here was the owners response. 


> Not entirely sure of where you want to go with the boat at this point.
> For us it is a custom boat with custom paint and logos and the additional spray on the floor, not something easily resold should you determine the birthmarks are a deal breaker. We also gave up a build slot and canceled one of our "stock boats" to get this built for you in a reasonable time frame. They are slow to produce boats and that factor limits how many we can sell because of the timeline and custom options they offer.
> While I understand your disappointment I think the big picture here is you have an amazing boat, one that will last a lifetime off use and to balk at buying it because of the imperfections seems like an over reaction. Especially given it would be next year before a replacement (likely with similar marks) would even be available and on a new boat you would need to deal with them directly as I would not be willing to accept the risk of a second refusal and the costs associated with doing a refund. (we pay cc fees both on sales and on refunds so as an example if we take a 3000 deposit we pay about $55 dollars for that transaction and another $55 if we refund it later).
> Please feel free to reach out to me directly if you want to talk through it or have more questions
> ...


I contacted Cascade River Gear directly. I prepared myself for the worse. I was overwhelmed by their customer service. They went above and beyond to remedy the situation. As for the Trailhead, I have spent roughly $10k in the store. They didn't even try to help me. I for one, won't shop there.


----------



## Wallrat (Jan 19, 2021)

I can’t even understand why they’re asking you to eat the shipping on a return. Haven’t you already paid shipping once? I’d be on the warpath before conceding paying for that. Again.


----------



## Will Amette (Jan 28, 2017)

Electric-Mayhem said:


> The person who started the thread did not say that.... he just asked if what he is seeing on his new boat is normal.
> 
> Another poster, Truckee Sagebrush, said he's seeing signs of a new boat that he has used for a few hundred miles develop pinhole leaks.
> 
> ...


Mea culpa. I retract my statement. Sorry Jake. I agree with you now that my error was pointed out.


----------



## IDriverRunner (Aug 18, 2015)

Jamo said:


> I had a similar situation. I had a MF permit and wanted a bigger raft. I ordered my Williwawa II with custom graphics from the Trailhead in Missoula. When I went to pick it up the first thing I saw was a defect, aka blemish, in the urethane. I looked at the other Maravias in the showroom and did not see anything close to what my raft had. To say I was totally heart broken. I refused to pick it up. Thinking that once I took possession, it would be harder to get any kind of satisfaction.
> 
> Here was the owners response.
> 
> I contacted Cascade River Gear directly. I prepared myself for the worse. I was overwhelmed by their customer service. They went above and beyond to remedy the situation. As for the Trailhead, I have spent roughly $10k in the store. They didn't even try to help me. I for one, won't shop there.



That's wild! I would do exactly as you did and contact CRG directly. As someone that spends way too much time and money there they have always gone above and beyond. I'm shocked by the OP's pictures, but I'm sure that CRG/Marvia will do all they can to fix the situation.


----------



## PDX Duck (Mar 17, 2015)

Jamo said:


> I had a similar situation. I had a MF permit and wanted a bigger raft. I ordered my Williwawa II with custom graphics from the Trailhead in Missoula. When I went to pick it up the first thing I saw was a defect, aka blemish, in the urethane. I looked at the other Maravias in the showroom and did not see anything close to what my raft had. To say I was totally heart broken. I refused to pick it up. Thinking that once I took possession, it would be harder to get any kind of satisfaction.
> 
> Here was the owners response.
> 
> I contacted Cascade River Gear directly. I prepared myself for the worse. I was overwhelmed by their customer service. They went above and beyond to remedy the situation. As for the Trailhead, I have spent roughly $10k in the store. They didn't even try to help me. I for one, won't shop there.


you dropped $8K and he is talking about “I want my $2!!!!”

Fortunately I have never heard of that store but is worth mentioning you cannot find any Maravia products on their website now.


----------



## Montet202 (Aug 22, 2020)

SlimShady said:


> Dang. I would be bummed if that was how my new maravia showed up. I ordered a zephyr in January 2022 and received it around July. It has a few (I mean 2-3) that are the size of a pen tip. I also had a great buying experience with them, great service, clear communication and realistic expectations about when it would be built/delivered.
> 
> For 8k...I would call them up and try to get it repaired or replaced free of cost. They come with a 10 year warranty... pinholes out of the box is unacceptable. You may have to pay shipping out there, but set the expectation that if they see what you see, they reimburse you for it. Shit happens and sometimes things squeeze out the door that really shouldn't. Give them the opportunity to make it right.


I have had a similar experience. My two year old Zephyr was, as far as I can tell, damn near perfect and hasn’t needed topping off on any trip, so far. That said, had it had defects like the OP’s, it would have gone straight back for refund or replacement.


----------



## rusty7400 (19 d ago)

UPDATE!!!

I received an email back from Maravia today. They were apologetic and very customer service oriented. They are building us a new boat while allowing us to use this one until the new one is built. While this should not have found itself ever delivered, crap happens, and mistakes happen. Maravia has always been a good company in our minds, and the customer service we experienced today proved that they are still driven by the same values they have had. While it sucks that we have to wait longer for a new raft, we still have an operable raft. 

Thank you to everyone who gave advice and shared their experiences. My desire with this post was to determine normality in rafts and in this case, confirm what I thought were abnormalities. I purchased the frame and raft through a dealer that genuinely cared about quality and helped me navigate the process. If you need what I would consider the best frames in the industry, consider a Recretec frame from Corvallis. 

Thanks again, everyone. 

Rusty


----------



## Will Amette (Jan 28, 2017)

That's great news! Faith restored in Maravia!

And plus one on those Recretec frames. Seriously nice stuff.


----------



## Montet202 (Aug 22, 2020)

Great to hear. That’s the way it should be.
Recretec does solid work.


----------



## BastrdSonOfElvis (Mar 24, 2005)

Product leaving a manufacturer in that condition definitely raised my eyebrows. Those are obvious, severe flaws and someone made the decision to send it out the door and make it the consumer’s problem.

Maravia was a brand had considered — glad I went with a different manufacturer.


----------



## Jamo (May 27, 2021)

rusty7400 said:


> UPDATE!!!
> 
> I received an email back from Maravia today. They were apologetic and very customer service oriented. They are building us a new boat while allowing us to use this one until the new one is built. While this should not have found itself ever delivered, crap happens, and mistakes happen. Maravia has always been a good company in our minds, and the customer service we experienced today proved that they are still driven by the same values they have had. While it sucks that we have to wait longer for a new raft, we still have an operable raft.
> 
> ...


That is exactly how they treated me. Other companies may have a longer warranty, but their customer service is outstanding.


----------



## carvedog (May 11, 2005)

Good to hear Maravia is stepping up. That said my Williwaw 2 will lose 30 to 40 % of it's air after two or three weeks. Makes it hard to keep the tarp cover tight, but it is 32 to 35 years old.....so I don't complain. Those blemishes are pretty bad, hope the new boat is a little more perfect than that. For the Trailhead guy to complain about cc fees is pretty whack. Part of doing business...sometimes you are the bug, sometimes you the windshield. Shit happens. His refusal to say 'this isn't right - what do we need to do' tells me more than enough about them. I am not one of those 'the customer is always right' guys, but in this case certainly they are.


----------



## GreenRiverRat (4 mo ago)

I have owned nothing but Maravia rafts, owned 7 of them and currently have 4 in storage waiting for the next trip. They have always been very accommodating when I have special ordered modifications to their standard rafts. Would not buy from anyone else with my experience with them.


----------



## jgrebe (Jan 16, 2010)

That's not right or acceptable - obviously some quality control issues at the factory. Don't accept any excuses, Maravia positions and prices as a premium product so you should get a premium product.


----------

