# New Rapid in Desolation Canyon????



## markdl

Joe Hutch Canyon flash flooded last August, which has made (from trip reports since then) the Joe Hutch Canyon rapid more difficult - the BLM now calls it a solid class III, but it's just now being seen with high water for the first time. I'm looking forward to seeing it myself here in a couple of weeks.


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## desertrat

We just ran it about a week ago at about 12,000 cfs. We ran left of center to avoid a large hole on river right and then moved towards the center to avoid pour overs and rocks on the left. It did not seem that difficult (maybe a 6 or 7 on the desert scale) but it would probably be a good idea to scout it. At 10-15k cfs its definitely the biggest rapid in DesoGray. 

You can't really see the line but I included a photo anyway.

Have a great trip!


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## bth

great photo- look like a blast!! 
im heading to deso on friday morning, and will certainly take plenty of photos as well.


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## shireen611

*Joe Hutch Canyon*

I'm running it the second week in June. When you get back would you let me know how it goes for you? Thanks. Have a great trip.




markdl said:


> Joe Hutch Canyon flash flooded last August, which has made (from trip reports since then) the Joe Hutch Canyon rapid more difficult - the BLM now calls it a solid class III, but it's just now being seen with high water for the first time. I'm looking forward to seeing it myself here in a couple of weeks.


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## shireen611

desertrat said:


> We just ran it about a week ago at about 12,000 cfs. We ran left of center to avoid a large hole on river right and then moved towards the center to avoid pour overs and rocks on the left. It did not seem that difficult (maybe a 6 or 7 on the desert scale) but it would probably be a good idea to scout it. At 10-15k cfs its definitely the biggest rapid in DesoGray.
> 
> You can't really see the line but I included a photo anyway.
> 
> Have a great trip!


Sounds awesome. Thanks


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## MacDaddy

I put on the 15th of June and will add to the Joe Hutch photo collection when I return,


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## rwhyman

We launch on Monday and I'm guessing that we will scout Joe Hutch. I'll try and get some photos up when we return.


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## markdl

Along with the photos that I'll take here in 2 weeks, I'm also going to shoot some HD video, which of course I'll share (if I can find someplace to host HD video....)


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## caspermike

vimeo.com


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## KnoxDeLion

This is really exciting, I think I wet my pants a little when I heard this...I have a June 4th launch.


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## rivermanryan

Can't wait to see it. I have a June 7th launch.


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## penguin

Got a June 18th launch, so I'm also excited to see any more pictures, tips, etc. 

We're taking some little ones down the river, so any tips will be appreciated.


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## yetigonecrazy

caspermike said:


> vimeo.com


vimeo isnt all that great for HD unless you spring for the Vimeo PLUS package. they only let you upload one HD vid per week with the free account. if you upgrade you get unlimited HD uploads, so long as it doesnt top the 8 gb a week upload limit.

ive got the basic but im going to upgrade as soon as I have the funds for it, i love my basic vimeo, but the plus is going to really kick ass! i cant wait....


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## lhowemt

Thanks for the photos. We're going in September, and it's nice to see that it will be easy for our scardy-cat dogs to walk the rapid. Thanks!


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## desertrat

*More picts*



desertrat said:


> We just ran it about a week ago at about 12,000 cfs. We ran left of center to avoid a large hole on river right and then moved towards the center to avoid pour overs and rocks on the left. It did not seem that difficult (maybe a 6 or 7 on the desert scale) but it would probably be a good idea to scout it. At 10-15k cfs its definitely the biggest rapid in DesoGray.
> 
> You can't really see the line but I included a photo anyway.
> 
> Have a great trip!


Here is a link to better picts of the rapid taken from river left on our early-may trip (~12,000 cfs). Some close ups of the river right holes too. 

*http://tiny.cc/FHR7Y* 

enjoy


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## markdl

Awesome picture! Did you pull out river left after the rapid and walk back up to take that picture, or pull out above the rapid?


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## desertrat

markdl said:


> Awesome picture! Did you pull out river left after the rapid and walk back up to take that picture, or pull out above the rapid?


We were on a geology research trip - we camped above the rapid on the left and hiked up to look at rocks which happened to give the prefect view of the rapid. The picts are from a fellow geologist.


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## markdl

desertrat said:


> We were on a geology research trip - we camped above the rapid on the left and hiked up to look at rocks which happened to give the prefect view of the rapid. The picts are from a fellow geologist.


How far above the rapid on the left did you camp? When I was down last year, I don't remember seeing any good campsites through there.


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## desertrat

markdl said:


> How far above the rapid on the left did you camp? When I was down last year, I don't remember seeing any good campsites through there.


I don't remember but the camp was marginal. We needed to camp there to get the research done. The camp worked but was nothing special.


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## Brushfire830

Great pictures of Joe Hutch, can't wait till our July 25th launch.


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## oldfatguy

at 18-19k it is by far the largest rapid in deso. 6-7 on the grand canyon scale. flipped some duckies. we lined some duckies on the right bank, that was very easy.


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## whip

left run down the tongue, face the left shore pull away. One of our dory's 
clipped a rock bottom left...no damage


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## MacDaddy

Whip,
How were the mosquitoes at sand wash?


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## basinrafter

Skeeters were fairly non-existent on May 14 - we slept on our trailer with no tent and had no problems.


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## rwhyman

We launched on the 18th, a few squitos around, but no big deal. 
Ran Joe Hutch at about 19K. Like Whip says, make a river left approach, take it down the tongue, then some big, somewhat confused waves and then pull away from the wall. Lots of huge smiles on all the boaters as we sat in the big eddy, river left, after the run. 
A couple of boats in our group tried a, close to shore, right sneak. One guy got tossed and the other boater said it was not the best choice.

One more thing, there are two Joe Hutch rapids. The first is JH Creek which is no big deal. The second is JH Canyon and that is the big one. It was great fun. It was my son's first trip with his own raft and he ran it fine.

Sorry, I never got any pix.


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## Brook

How many days/ nights are people typically doing it in at these levels. I have a July 6th launch but I haven't run it since I was 14 on a kayak self supported trip. If my memory serves me correctly 3 days? Sounds right?

As for Vimeo.com its actually pretty good you just have to learn about compression. H.264 if you can use Quicktime. IF your vid is more than 500 megs you need to learn to compress it a lot more. Video quality change to a little less than "high" quality and convert your audio into "mono" not "stereo" to compress further. Hope that helps.


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## shireen611

I've run it in open canoes at low water in August in 4 nights, but you can move through the flat water much faster in a canoe than in a raft. We also couldn't carry much water.

In high water we raft and like to have slow days with leisurely starts and time for side hikes so we typically spend 6 nights on the river with a layover day at some wonderful spot.

3 days sounds way fast to me but I'd be curious what others have to say.


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## basinrafter

We just launched May 15, and took 8 days/7 nights. Flows were between 16 and 19k, so we were able to have 2 layover days, and not that I had a watch, but I don't think we ever spent more than 3-4 hours on the river in a day. Three days sounds way too fast to me as well - gotta take some time to relax and soak up the experience!


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## shireen611

One of my favorite camps on Deso is (or perhaps was) a big sandy beach just below Joe Hutch Canyon at what was Cow Swim. With everyone talking about running left and eddying out on the left, I wondered if that camp still exists or is that gone too? 

The rapid sounds really exciting! We launch June 5th. It was 21K this morning. Amazing!


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## whip

No bugs at put-in. No noseeum bites 3 days post trip. We had great camps. Firewater intrigued me the most of those we passed. Saw some big lion tracks above Rabbit "very fresh" and some recent kills of sheep.


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## kazak4x4

whip, what was your average speed would you say? I am launching on 28th of May and was wondering if I could make it to Jack Creek in 5 hours or so?

What sites would you recommend for a bigger group (21)?

Thanks for the update on bugs!

Alex


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## widewhale

Cow Swim: Fun. It pushes hard into the rock wall at the end, but it is probably my favorite Deso rapid now.


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## mtcarys

We just got back friday from a 6 night trip. The river was running 15-18,000. Joe Hutch was pretty straightforward-not much options unless you slide slowly down the far right but then face potential hangups on a few rocks. Just run the huge wave train on the left and pull right as you approach the lower wall of rocks. If you haven't run big water and waves before just wait a bit and someone will run it. Watching someone else do it first will build your confidence. Just don't get sideways in that wave train!


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## Beardance42

Great shots desertrat. Looks like the run is down the extended tongue on the left, ferry off the wall starting about midway.

It's a shame to watch Cow Swim disappearing - one of the best beach spots on Deso...  

Any sense from the BLM if the rapid is changing much in the spring runoff? I saw pics from the first few days after the flash, and it looked VERY rocky.


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## JBL

We have a June 30th launch and are taking a bunch of kids down Deso. 

Question: can all the bigger rapids (II+ and up) be scouted and walked around by the younger kids if necessary? I haven't done Deso in 20 yrs. and can't remember. 

Also, what kind of water level can we expect in late June? 

Thanks for any info.


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## Beardance42

Three Fords, which _was_ the biggest drop before (apparently) the new Joe Hutch, would probably be the longest hike, way around the left side. I've never walked it and never seen anyone do it, but I imagine it can be done. 

Coal Creek would be a pretty tough one, too - again, a long trek over boulders on the left. Neither rapid has terribly acute consequence, although both merit a look at the 6-8K you're probably looking at. 

Rattlsnake would be a long walk on the left, and Steer Ridge would be a _very_ long walk on the right, although the run is fairly straightforward along the wall. Wire Fence is just a drop into three or four haystacks, not worth the walk. Start pulling over to the right side immediately after Wire if you want to scout Three Fords. If you want to walk the kids around Three Fords, you'll need to paddle across the lake to get over to the left - it'll be a workout. 

The more minor rapids - Chandler, Snap, etc - no need to scout, IMO.

As always...use your judgment and YMMV. Have fun!


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## Skyman

We had three children walk left around three fords rapid. Not easy, but doable. Rapid is pretty straight forward. The walk around was very deep mud in spots. Also watch for bears. The wife and children saw one just as we retrieved them.


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## JBL

Beardance42 said:


> Coal Creek would be a pretty tough one, too - again, a long trek over boulders on the left. Neither rapid has terribly acute consequence, although both merit a look at the 6-8K you're probably looking at.
> 
> Rattlsnake would be a long walk on the left, and Steer Ridge would be a _very_ long walk on the right, although the run is fairly straightforward along the wall. Wire Fence is just a drop into three or four haystacks, not worth the walk. Start pulling over to the right side immediately after Wire if you want to scout Three Fords. If you want to walk the kids around Three Fords, you'll need to paddle across the lake to get over to the left - it'll be a workout.
> 
> The more minor rapids - Chandler, Snap, etc - no need to scout, IMO.
> 
> As always...use your judgment and YMMV. Have fun!


Thanks for the info. 

What's "long"? 100 yds? Half a mile?


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## Osprey

JBL said:


> We have a June 30th launch and are taking a bunch of kids down Deso.
> 
> Question: can all the bigger rapids (II+ and up) be scouted and walked around by the younger kids if necessary? I haven't done Deso in 20 yrs. and can't remember.
> 
> Also, what kind of water level can we expect in late June?
> 
> Thanks for any info.


JBL, we've got a June 30th launch as well and will also have a bunch of kids. See ya at the put-in. i've got a blue Vanguard.


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## Skyman

We launch June 23rd. Anyone else here launching then?

Skyman


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## Beardance42

JBL said:


> Thanks for the info.
> 
> What's "long"? 100 yds? Half a mile?


Hmm - all the ones I mentioned are well over 100 yards. I would imagine all are a quarter mile or so. Rattlesnake might be a bit shorter, and Steer Ridge a bit longer. Thing about Steer is that 80% of the river channel is constricted by a rightside rock/driftwood pile that forces the runnable channel all the way left. You don't want to mess with this, so you'd probably want to drop off your passengers high on the right side, so you have enough room to get over left. THe water is pretty slow up there, before the drop. 

Sounds worse than it is - my only point is that Steer may be the longest hike of all of them. Been years since I've run Steer at 6K, but as I recall it's pretty clean and straightforward at that level - a few splashing waves at the top, and Surprise Hole down near the bottom, easily skirted on the right.


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## lhowemt

Thanks so much for the "walking beta". The buzz is so wonderful, where else can we get so much information, so useful, and in such a welcoming manner?

We're taking our pups in Sept, and expect to have to walk them on some rapids (III+ and above). We learned our lesson on the lower salmon, where walking around Snowhole was worse than running it. It ended up more of a swim and a rock climbing event for Jeff and the pups. We want to avoid that in the future, and this information will be along the trip with us so we can have fun, the dogs can have fun, and we don't get ourselves in trouble cliffing out trying to walk.

Awesome!

Any more picture of said rapids that might be good for walking, specifically of what would be walked? I was psyched to see the Joe Hutch photos, for the visual on walking.


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## atg200

This is the entry to 3 fords. Looks easy to walk around on the left.


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## Ron

Sure seen a lot more people hurt walking around rapids than running them. Would really have to be worried about the skills of the boat men to walk them. Have walked back up to run other boats though on 3 Fords, Wire Fence, Coal Creek. Not bad hikes, but sure easy to turn an ankle or break something on the rocks. Ron.


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## lhowemt

Ron said:


> Sure seen a lot more people hurt walking around rapids than running them. Would really have to be worried about the skills of the boat men to walk them. Have walked back up to run other boats though on 3 Fords, Wire Fence, Coal Creek. Not bad hikes, but sure easy to turn an ankle or break something on the rocks. Ron.


Agree, more injuries occur when you touch the ground, (landing, scouting, camp) but I think we're mostly talking about walking kids and dogs, not rowers skill issues. I imagine one of the main reasons (besides safety) to walk kids is similar to why we want to walk our dogs, to avoid scaring them, but with kids it might be to ensure a lifetime of love of whitewater.


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## MacDaddy

Ihowemt, I dont know what size of boat you are rowing or what your skill level is or how old your kids are but if you scout the rapids you are concerned about and skirt anything big that you feel would scare them it will be more exciting for them as well as a great confidence builder for the next trip. I took my kids at the age of 5 and 7 a few years ago they were nervous in steer ridge and three fords and coal creek. It sucked because I wanted to hit the holes in both SR and CC but skirted them the advantage was the next year they were totaly jacked about all the rapids.You need to do what you think is best for your kids but this is what worked for us.

Mac


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## raftintime

I just ran it yesterday at 21,000 cfs. Actually I ran the sneek on the right side and still had problems. I scouted it and the rapid looked like a mean monster. I am a scoutmaster and had 16 boy scouts in 8 tandam IKs. I just had them portage the IKs. I was concearned about how to get my three rafts down and ran into a guy that was really cool and he offered to have him and his friends get them down. In trying to bring them closer we found we couldn't stop close because it was too deep water to get out and try to tie them up. Just had to run it. We did ok. Turns out the guy that was really cool was Bill Parks, owner of NRS. I asked him after his run what class he thought that new rapid was and he said definately a 4+ on a 6 scale at 21,000 cfs. I took a video with my camera of Bill running the left center run (I will try to put on you tube) . By the way, the ranger at the putin told me to have my boys run left of center in the IKs. They must not know what Joe Hutch Canyon looks like at this high flow. The boys got to throw a few rescue bags and grab a paddle for one of Bills friends who was trying the right sneek in a IK. The right sneek was tricky because there is a pour over just as you enter and several holes after.


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## rwhyman

I think I have to disagree with Bill Parks on the his rating of Joe Hutch. We ran it last week at about 19K and I can't think there is a lot of difference between 19 and 21K. The only people in our group, as well as the group that followed, that had problems were the 2 boats that tried the right side. The total boats in both groups was about 18 boats. If you line up and hit the middle of the left tongue with a little momentum, the only real moves you have to make is to keep it straight and pull away from the wall on the left after the big stuff. Of all the boats that I saw, no one seemed to have much trouble avoiding the wall. And that would include my son who was rowing his own rig for the first time, but I should add the disclaimer that he has been on quite a few big water trips including the Grand and MFS and has spent quite a bit of time on the sticks of my cat. But Joe Hutch was definitely the biggest rapid he has run.

I would rate it a III+


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## cadster

Got off the river today.

Joe Hutch Canyon's rapid approach is far left as you round the point above the drop. You won't see the complete rapid until you round this point. 

You can either stay left or drive across the tongue to the right. It'll be hard to miss the big standing waves at the bottom of the tongue if you move to the right, but you won't have to pull away from the left wall at the bottom. These standing waves weren’t breaking two days ago, but a backwash might form as the water drops. They were as big as any in the Grand Canyon.

Scouting from the right doesn’t give you a great view of the rapid since the tongue is on the opposite side and behind the big hole in the center.


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## pat bernal

came off Deso this last thurs. hutch was big ....2200 cfs. should be scouted .....Deso with this change is no longer classed 3 river....I would put Hutch at a 6-7 on a 1-10 ....


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## bookmillone

I just came off deso on 22nd May, I agree they need to re-classify this rapid. Not sure bout the 6-7 out of ten though. Perhaps a nice 4 on the 1-5 scale though. It is certainly worth scouting now, just to see the boulders that did not make it into the river if nothing else. ps. nice butter line on the left, just not too far left. ran it a 20500


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## rwhyman

Don't you just double the number to change a 1-5 rating to a 1-10 rating?

III is a 6,
III+ is a 7,
IV is an 8
and so on.

Anyone care to chime in here?


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## gapers

Fuck,we get it. It's a class III+ rapid that should be scouted. The same thing applies for every river. When in doubt,scout.

7fuckin pages about a class III+ rapid......

DISCLAIMER: Rapids DO change.


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## rwhyman

gapers said:


> Fuck,we get it. It's a class III+ rapid that should be scouted. The same thing applies for every river. When in doubt,scout.
> 
> 7fuckin pages about a class III+ rapid......
> 
> DISCLAIMER: Rapids DO change.




Sorry to get your panties all up in a wad!!!

I thought this was a forum for talking about river issues. 
I didn't know there was a page limit.


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## raftchef

*Joe Hutch*

Hi Shireen-
I ran Joe Hutch last september (about 2500cfs) and a couple weeks ago (probably 20,000cfs or a little higher).
At low water it is a right hand run but at high water it is definetly a left hand run-although I would recommend scouting at any level to double check. Maybe in the teens it's different that above 20K.
There is an obvious tongue on the far left, I took the tongue and went straight through the big wave train. Be ready to pull right, away from the wall at the bottom-it pulls you in. When you look at the left hand run, there are two large waves at the end of the wave train that look a little tricky. Just hit them straight on-I will try to get some pics up but they really don't do the rapid justice.
A couple boats in our party tried for a right hand run, they thought they could "sneak" it. One almost flipped and the other boat launched it's rower as they got pulled into the hole.
It is a fun rapid, just needs a bit more attention than the others on Deso.
Have a great trip!!
Just remember it's the second Joe Hutch rapid


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## Beardance42

Personally, I'm glad for the accounts here. I've run Deso over a dozen times, but haven't seen the new rapid yet. I usually run low water - 3K or less, in September. 

Keep 'em coming, folks.


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## lhowemt

Beardance42 said:


> Personally, I'm glad for the accounts here. I've run Deso over a dozen times, but haven't seen the new rapid yet. I usually run low water - 3K or less, in September.
> 
> Keep 'em coming, folks.


HI Beardance-

I just boated with some new friends this past weekend, and they told me that a fall trip on Deso is like a lake. she described it to me as "you know where they show rapids, that's where the only current is". We have a Labor Day permit, and were really looking forward to a desert trip, but don't want it to be like being on the lower Snake where it is row, row, row, row. I know the first 20 miles or so is a push, almost at any level, but how's it in early Sep? We're not looking for big whitewater (it's a dog trip which means III or less), but don't want to be miserable and have to work the entire 7 days.


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## rsmiller

bring a small motor


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## Beardance42

lhowemt said:


> HI Beardance-
> 
> I just boated with some new friends this past weekend, and they told me that a fall trip on Deso is like a lake. she described it to me as "you know where they show rapids, that's where the only current is". We have a Labor Day permit, and were really looking forward to a desert trip, but don't want it to be like being on the lower Snake where it is row, row, row, row. I know the first 20 miles or so is a push, almost at any level, but how's it in early Sep? We're not looking for big whitewater (it's a dog trip which means III or less), but don't want to be miserable and have to work the entire 7 days.


Hi lhowemt - 

My late wife and I used to run over or near Labor Day frequently, from early 90's to '03. We always thought it was the best time to go...no (or few) bugs, reduced crowds, cool nights, usually dry weather, more sandy camping. 

As far as it being a "lake", I won't lie. The first 26 miles are a very stiff pull, especially if it's breezy. 

Once the moving water starts - around Jack Creek or a little past - it moves pretty well until after Three Fords, then gets a bit lakey up until Rabbit. The row out - last 12 miles or so - is also a bit lakey. 

I haven't done the Lower Snake. so I won't compare. But the rapids are generally II - II+, splashy and moderately technical (rocky), and the camping in the moving stretches is great. 

In my view, the key is to leave yourself enough time. We never did it in less than 6 days, sometimes 8 - you can do it in 5, but it'll be a workout. Four days is masochistic. 

Get on the water early on the first, second and last days, pull over and take a breather if you get wind-throttled, and don't fight it - negotiate with it. I've seen screaming and despair and heartbreak from other parties in big winds out there, and there's no need. Yes, it's some work....the second day and the last day are usually the most flat water rowing, but you can manage 4mph pretty easy in the moving stretches the rest of the time. Set up a decent camping/mileage plan, try to stay on it or ahead of it, and have a good Plan B. Plan to make your miles early in the day. 

Having said all that, in the interests of full disclosure, my trip in Sept '07 was notable for one afternoon of _the strongest_ upstream wind I've ever seen in 20 years of paddling, when we were between Florence Creek and Rabbit. The lake above Rabbit had 3'-4' swells. It was utterly soul crushing. We ended up making it to Rabbit and camping there, and not a breath of wind the next day for the row out. Deso can be like that. 

I wouldn't presume to judge your tolerance for rowing toil - Deso below 3K is an earned privilege. 

I'm jealous of your date - I may not be able to go out there again until next year. Enjoy!


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## markdl

Just got off the river yesterday. Ran Joe Hutch on Thursday afternoon at 20,400cfs. The 3 big waves look mean, and as everyone has said, you have to pull hard right after the 3rd wave to stay off the cliff on the left side. We were loaded down pretty heavy, so decided to do the right sneak. Couple of nasty pourover rocks that need to be missed (we missed the first one, the second one spun us around backwards), but other than that, the right side didn't seem too bad. 

Ratings wise, I'd probably describe it the way that Steve Chirstensen (Utahrafters) describes Westwater rapids - solid class III or III+ with class IV consequences if you screw up. Nothing good would come out of hitting it. 

I'll post pictures tonight, and hopefully have the HD video I shot up on Vimeo later this week, both of the scout and the run through the right side.

Mosquitoes - not horrendous at Sand Wash on the 25th but present, worse on the 26th camped at the Turtle Fossil camp (the 2nd MM camp after Rock House in the Whitis guide), present but not bad at Mushroom Rock on the 27th, and then never saw another one the rest of the trip. 

Water was averaging 6-7 mph in the flat sections all the way from Sand Wash down.


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## pat bernal

gapers said:


> Fuck,we get it. It's a class III+ rapid that should be scouted. The same thing applies for every river. When in doubt,scout.
> 
> 7fuckin pages about a class III+ rapid......
> 
> DISCLAIMER: Rapids DO change.


 you are one rude dude .....


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## lhowemt

rwhyman said:


> Don't you just double the number to change a 1-5 rating to a 1-10 rating?
> 
> III is a 6,
> III+ is a 7,
> IV is an 8
> and so on.
> 
> Anyone care to chime in here?


I don't think this is the case. I wouldn't say there is anything close to a V on the Grand, and aren't Lava, Crystal, Hermit, and such considered 10's?


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## rwhyman

According to the River Maps guide, Lava is a 9, Crystal is a 9, Hermit, Granite, Horn Cr and Hance are 8's. I think everything else is a 7 or less.

But like any river, it just depends on the flow.


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## JBL

gapers said:


> Fuck,we get it. It's a class III+ rapid that should be scouted. The same thing applies for every river. When in doubt,scout.
> 
> 7fuckin pages about a class III+ rapid......
> 
> DISCLAIMER: Rapids DO change.


Settle down, Francis. 

If you don't want to read a thread, don't click on it. It's that easy.


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## lhowemt

gapers said:


> Fuck,we get it. It's a class III+ rapid that should be scouted. The same thing applies for every river. When in doubt,scout.
> 
> 7fuckin pages about a class III+ rapid......
> 
> DISCLAIMER: Rapids DO change.


Sounds like SOMEONE needs to get some boating in!


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## raftchef

*Pics of Joe Hutch*

Hi Shireen-
These pictures were taken from the eddy below (on river Left) Joe Hutch Canyon rapid. You can see the wave train on the right hand side of the photo ie, the left run. Each picture has a blue cat above and at the entrance of the rapid. The picture does not represent the size well at all but hope it helps.


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## markdl

Here's a panorama that I took last Thursday, May 25th at about 2pm of Joe Hutch at 20,400 cfs. Working on the video next.


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## markdl

And a closer version of the 3 big waves on the left run.


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## markdl

And here's the video that I just posted on Vimeo. Should be HD, although I'm not sure that it's showing up as HD yet....

Joe Hutch Canyon @ 20,400 cfs 5-25-09 on Vimeo

Not sure how to embed it directly like others do with youtube videos, or if even can be done....


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## mtcarys

These 2 photos are of Joe Hutch a couple of weeks ago at 17,000


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## kazak4x4

Joe Hatch at about 19,000 cfs a few days ago

Left run:
YouTube - Desolation Canyon - Joe Hatch rapid

First person perspective:
YouTube - Desolation Canyon - Green River - Joe Hatch rapid

Right of center run:
YouTube - Desolation Canyon - Green River - Joe Hatch - John running it


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## rivermanryan

So the scout must be on the left. Can you scout on the right and still make it to the left side tongue, or is the water moving too fast for a ferry? We will have heavy rafts with kids, so I am thinking of taking a quick look from the left. Opinions?


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## kazak4x4

The scout is on the river right actually. I guess you could scramble up to look on the left...

There is plenty of room to get from river right to river left tongue. All my 3 newbie captains got across without any hassle. We had every boat full of kids, everyone made it down fine. Take the tongue, catch a couple of hay stack waves, point left and pull away from the rock wall, pretty straight forward.


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## Beardance42

Kazak - great footage, thanks for posting!

Looks like you got in pretty tight left at the bottom, was that intentional or is it just that pushy? The ride looked pretty sweet.... 

That middle acreage really looks nasty now. Joe Hutch wasn't nothing before the flash flood - there _were_ some pretty decent little drops in there, but much, much shorter.


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## kazak4x4

Ya I got carried away a little too much enjoying the wave train, I could have started pulling earlier, but then I saw the strong current by the rock and knew it would carry me away from the wall. So I let it float a bit longer. 

I did run it very conservatively if you could tell. I had my wife and my 6 year old boy in the boat on their first whitewater adventure, so I wanted to play safe. Plus I was leading a group of 6 boats with 3 new captains who were watching my line. Didn't want to get too fancy. 

Joe Hatch is a fun one now. Gets the butterflies flying in the gut... good feeling!


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## Skyman

So where's the big Grand Canyonesqe hole that everyone is talking about? From the footage, looks like you could go about anywhere? Just looks like big waves to me?

Skyman


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## kazak4x4

Skyman, it's there, hard to see on my video. Also, from another website discussion sounds like at lower level it gets bigger (12k or so). It's not that huge, but it's the biggest on Deso. I wouldn't be surprised if we get reports of people in smaller boats flip in it.


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## lhowemt

Skyman said:


> So where's the big Grand Canyonesqe hole that everyone is talking about? From the footage, looks like you could go about anywhere? Just looks like big waves to me?
> 
> Skyman


Remember things (rapids) usually look much easier on video.


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## Skyman

lhowemt said:


> Remember things (rapids) usually look much easier on video.


Yes, I understand that. But in comparison, I does not look like going by Skull or anything. Looks like a pretty straight forward rapid. The laterals look like they could be a little inconsistent and tricky.

Skyman


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## thunderfoot

as the above stated Joe Hutch flashed last Aug. The flood pushed the alluvial fan out into the river quite a bit along with several large hole making boulders.This squeezed the river to the left against the wall and left an island in the tail waters.I ran in April @ 3000 and it was the biggest on the river.How it changed after high water is likely removal of the island.Run it on the left of the v, punch the lateral and go forth. I smeared honey on myself, after 28 beers and made it through without scouting.Definitely try this at home


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## Matty

The big hole is just to the right of the tongue towards the top(in the POV video). At 15,500 when we were there the beginning of May, the tongue pretty much ended at the big hole, followed by a bigger wavetrain. Looks like it is a bit easier at 19,000, but could be the whole smooth line on video thing. Strong work 4x4!


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## Shotgun Eddy

*up the wash...*

My wife wanted to ask if anyone has hiked up that flash flooded wash very far or knows about any petroglyph history in that canyon. She worked for Outward Bound in the summer of '07 and said she came across a huge sandstone boulder about 1/2 mile up the wash on the left that looked as though it had shifted recently (extremely heavy rains) and revealed a spiral petroglyph. Does anyone know anything about this solitary petroglyph? She is familiar with the other panels throughout that canyon and said it seemed to match style and authenticity, but she admits to not being an expert.


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## markdl

Here's my POV video of the Joe Hutch run down the right side:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0w7S4jVKoBo


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## kazak4x4

I miss Deso already


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## markdl

Me too! But, I've got the San Juan next week, so that's some consolation!


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## Skyman

kazak4x4 said:


> I miss Deso already



We're from SLC also. Launching on the 23rd. A couple of people have bailed. May have room?

Skyman


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## kazak4x4

How many days are you doing?


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## Electric-Mayhem

Skyman,

I might be interested in taging along on that trip. I don't have a raft, but I'd be willing to help row as long as I can bring my kayak for a bit of play. I ran this a bunch as a late teenager, but haven't been back in like 10 years. Shoot me a pm if its a possibility.

JH


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## Skyman

kazak4x4 said:


> How many days are you doing?


It will be a quick trip. Put in on Tuesday, take out Saturday. We usually do 6-7 days, but we have a couple of doctors on board who need to be home by Sunday.

Electric, rafts are full. Not sure if we could fit gear.

Skyman


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## kazak4x4

5 days isn't too quick. I did deso one year in 2.5 days (one of the passengers got sick and had to get off the river). Hmmm, very tempting. You launching Tuesday right?


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## Skyman

kazak4x4 said:


> 5 days isn't too quick. I did deso one year in 2.5 days (one of the passengers got sick and had to get off the river). Hmmm, very tempting. You launching Tuesday right?


Yes, Tuesday the 23rd. Group dynamics are always interesting. Never boated with anyone outside our little circle. PM me if you are really interested. I think we may have two spots for sure, maybe 3 after today.

Skyman


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## elkcreek

Anyone been down Desolation / Gray recently? Looking for any new Beta on Joe Hutch rapid-we launch next week, June 14th.


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## rwhyman

elkcreek said:


> Anyone been down Desolation / Gray recently? Looking for any new Beta on Joe Hutch rapid-we launch next week, June 14th.


Did you read all 10 pages? There is plenty of info. Scout and make a plan!


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## caverdan

rwhyman's right.....look back through this thread........there's videos and rock by rock discriptions of how to run and scout the whole thing.


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## kazak4x4

caverdan said:


> rwhyman's right.....look back through this thread........there's videos and rock by rock discriptions of how to run and scout the whole thing.


This is what you do:

1. Record yourself reading this thread in audio book format
2. Put mp3 player on
3. Blind fold yourself
4. Launch your boat and listen to your audio book 
5. You should have a perfect line!

:wink:


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## Osprey

Anybody come off in the last week or so? Wondering how the bugs are now that the water is coming down and any other info you care to share? Thanks


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## joecoolives

I took out on the 15th of june. the squitos were bad untill after jacks creek. we put on late on the 7th because I was rigging a new raft, and had to figure out stuff. we camped 12 miles in and got eaten so I sugest skiping that unpleasantness.

Joe Hutch was kicking! I elt like my 14 foot raft was the same size as the 2 huge waves at the bottom. It was 16000 when we started but comming down quickly. it was 14,000 when we did joe hutch. there was a huge hole at top middle, the tongue was on the left and swept everything into the waves. I got swept into the wall hard enough to crack my spare oar. But my raft, dory and 3 duckies all made it with the floor down. It did flip a 9 foot paddle raft while I was scouting. if you get into the eddy in the middle before the wall at the bottom on the left you could have a hard time getting out. i saw a raft stuck and pullin hard to escape.


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## MountainDog

Here's some photos and video of us going through Joe Hutch on June 4th running around 20,000cfs. We didn't see any routes river-right due to rocks. Paul took the raft first and figured he'd go left and then head right before the big rollers. The water was too fast though so he just took them. Ran it fine.
Paul on the oars of his 12.5ft Avon. Tom sitting pretty.





















































Video of me going through in an 8ft Pac800 pontoon.
After the rollers my right oar popped out so I had to struggle with getting that back in and staying straight.

video
(Sorry, can't get Vimeo to embed)

All photos of Deso Trip


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## rivermanryan

As always, the bugs were bad (although not a dense) from Sand Wash to Rock House. After Jack's Creek, they were not as bad, but they were there. They were still present to some extent all the way past Rock Creek. There were a lot along the banks of rock creek. On a trip I did 3 years ago, this was not the case. This year it seems like they are not as thick at the beginning, but are present for much more of the trip. We launched June 6th and took out on June 13th.


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## Osprey

Great info and awesome pictures! Thanks guys


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## cataraftgirl

Just got home from Deso yesterday. We launched June 13th at 13,000 cfs. Skeeters were really bad at Sand Wash, and for the first two days. Not too bad after that. Weather was sunny / overcast mix, not too hot, no thunder showers, just some sprinkles and strong afternoon winds. Best to get on the river early in the morning. Joe Hutch Canyon was impressive. Huge haystacks middle left, and huge holes throughout the middle. Most of the larger rafts were attempting to run the left tongue and pulling away from the haystacks. Some made it, some didn't & flipped. We had one Cat in our group run far left. She got sucked into the haystacks, but stayed upright. She did get banged against the wall at the bottom. The rest of us ran the right side with no problems. We had to run some holes and dodge some rocks, but it wasn't as bad as getting swept into those haystacks. We had a novice canoe team who ran right with no problems. You definitely want to scout this rapid !!!!!


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## rafter1234

Memorial Day @ 20,000cfs +/- the run was left through a big wave train. Pull off the wall... 2 tried to sneak the right side and got sucked into a rather large hole. Cat got beat up, I swam...Must change quite a bit at lower levels...Buck


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## cataraftgirl

I was surprised, because most folks on this site (and the ranger at Sand Wash) advised running left and pulling off the wall. But at 13,000 - 12,000 cfs, the left side wave train had 2-3 haystack waves that were standing up & flipping 16 ft. rafts. It seemed like after the rafts entered the left tongue, they were trying valiantly to pull towards center to stay away from the biggest waves, but the river flow was taking them right into the big waves. The far right hand run had quieter water along shore, but some rocks to get around. We entered mid-right side, went just left of the rocks, through a couple medium-sized (but not terrifying) holes, and were home free. There was a medium-sized hole at the top right entrance that we either went through or just to the left of. Our novice canoe boys did great running the right hand line. The top middle of the rapid was a churning, nasty mess of huge holes. I'm sure this rapid will be evolving a lot as the summer goes along. I'd be curious to see it at low water. I'd advise everyone to stop and scout, as it's a very impressive rapid. Take a look & pick your poison.


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## Golden Girl

Can passengers that don't want to run this rapid get off the river and walk around easily or is that not doable?


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## Skyman

Cool! We put in on Tuesday. I wonder what it will be like with flows in the 7-8K range? Looks like those will be the likely flows.

Skyman


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## basinrafter

Golden Girl said:


> Can passengers that don't want to run this rapid get off the river and walk around easily or is that not doable?


Soooo easy to walk it - when you pull over on the right to scout, just keep walking down past the scout spot to the big eddy on right after the rapid. Assuming your boats stay upright, they should be able to get back to the eddy easily.


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## Electric-Mayhem

basinrafter said:


> Assuming your boats stay upright


Has anyone actually flipped a raft on this yet? I know someone punctured theirs on the rocks on the side at low water, but has anyone actually flipped in here? Seems like a big hole at the top that might, but otherwise nothing too scary.

JH


----------



## basinrafter

Electric-Mayhem said:


> Has anyone actually flipped a raft on this yet? I know someone punctured theirs on the rocks on the side at low water, but has anyone actually flipped in here? Seems like a big hole at the top that might, but otherwise nothing too scary.
> 
> JH


Cataraft girl said a few posts back that she saw a few rafts flip in the haystacks. We ran it at 18-20k in mid-May, and the haystacks weren't flippers then, but who knows - that rapid is definitely still evolving.


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## Skyman

cataraftgirl said:


> I was surprised, because most folks on this site (and the ranger at Sand Wash) advised running left and pulling off the wall. But at 13,000 - 12,000 cfs, the left side wave train had 2-3 haystack waves that were standing up & flipping 16 ft. rafts.


I dunno, read the above post.

Skyman


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## oarframe

Damm, I was really looking forward to Deso and had an early july launch, but scored a SJ cancellation for next week. Looks like I'm dodging sandbars rather than haystacks. Love that picture of the avon getting buried! 
Gotta love Mama Nature, she keeps it real!


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## cataraftgirl

basinrafter said:


> Cataraft girl said a few posts back that she saw a few rafts flip in the haystacks. We ran it at 18-20k in mid-May, and the haystacks weren't flippers then, but who knows - that rapid is definitely still evolving.


Yep. Watched them flip with my own two eyes. 16 ft. rafts and several duckies. The ranger at Sand Wash told us that there have been quite a number of flips. Standing at the scout on the debris field was entertaining and nerve wracking at the same time. But that's what running whitewater is all about.....right? Ecstasy & Anxiety.


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## elkcreek

We put-in June 14 and out today for a seven day trip. Bug scenario much improves the futher South you wander down canyon. Like everyone is saying, Jack Creek and below deliniates the human tolerance zone for mosquitos.

Picture is a 18' commercial paddleboat at the big wave in Joe Hutch/Cow Swim from 2 days ago. They catapulted over it and managed to keep the blue side up for the remainder of the run! 
On the left tongue some boats managed to bust right thru the lateral and remain right of the wave train, a few other boats went around the left side of the waves. Level was around 13,000 cfs.


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## latouche

Just returned from Deso a few days ago. I love the new rapid especially at 13,000 cfs! I went left, the two waves are steep but flushy, the second wave didn't even get us wet. The current took us away from the wall, didn't have to pull away much. The mosquitoes were really bad at the put-in and the 1st few days, after that not bad....maybe due to the high wind factor in the afternoons.


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## Mike Harvey

how should I drive to Sand Wash from Salida? I am paying for a shuttle so should I go north to Vernal or drive up from Green River? Thanks.


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## elkcreek

I would recommend 1-70 to GR, North to Price, and then on to Duschene/Myton. Less gravel road that way. Price has a Walmart, Smiths grocery store for last minute stuff like ice.


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## Ron

*Vernal?*

I'd consider going North from Rifle to Vernal if you aren't going to leave your outfit at the take out. You might check it on a map and see which is the best. Ron.


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## sealion

I ran this last fall and there had been a HUGE flash that brought in lots of stuff. the hardest part was not hitting rocks-unsuccesfully. Its worth scouting just to see the flash flood effects! At high water scraping over rocks won't be an issue, and maybe this will move some of the small stuff out of the way and make a channel for lower water runs.

Dave


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## penguin

Hey guys,

I realize that some are growing tired of this thread, but it's a relevant topic in this section river. Deso is loaded with Class II/III rapids that can be comfortably run by most novices, but this rapid truly changes the character of this section of river as it must also be navigated. It's way bigger than the rest of the rapids in Deso. 

So here's my story! I ran it (and flipped) last week at 13,000 cfs. While scouting I observed one dump truck and a near flip, and one success. These standing waves curl over on top and they were at least six feet from trough to crest - very big curlers on top with a big rock wall at the bottom if you screw up. 

In my view, the best run is right of center. I started out left of center. After the first couple of waves I started to ferry right, but I was pulling backwards and slowing my speed. I turned a bit too much sideways, allowing a wave to turn me 90 degrees by the time I hit Flipper. That wave flipped me so easily, too. 

I had my family in the boat. We were all fine, but I was fairly well-shaken considering I was responsible for exposing them to this danger. The river is swift after Joe Hutch, so it took me at least a quarter-mile to get the boat to shore. 

Thanks to the Outward Bound trip for retrieving us and the two guys who righted my raft, too.

My suggestion: run this without kids, go right of center (in these flows) and have a rescue plan in place with others in your party. 

A friend with a digital video camera was able to extract this photo from the video. I'll see if I can get the whole video. 

- penguin


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## JBL

Thanks for the info. How were the bugs?


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## penguin

Ah, almost forgot to tell ya about the bugs! Wicked bad for the first two days everywhere except on the water. They virtually disappeared by day three, around our 35th mile or so. Be sure to bring nets and covers in addition to at least one bottle of bug spray per person. Once we got the upper hand on them and resorted to misquito nets and massive application of spray it was quite tolerable.


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## cataraftgirl

Your story sounds like what we experienced last week at 13,000 cfs. Folks were entering the rapid on the left tongue and trying like hell to ferry right, away from the big waves. Seemed like all the flow was sucking them right into the waves anyway. The center of this rapid at that level was a nightmare. We ran right of center, working toward the right shore. It was no piece of cake either, but I figured I'd rather get hung up on a rock, 5-10 feet off shore, than mess with those boat flipping waves.
I agree with your comment about this rapid changing the complexion of an otherwise moderate trip.
And those Skeeters !!!!!!! If you weighed less than 300 lbs they were trying to carry you off. Bug jacket with hood saved my life & sanity.


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## rivermanryan

We ran the left line at 14,000 and I would do it again. 3 out of our 5 boats flipped while running that line, but I attribute most of this to inexperience. The right line can be done, but is much more technical. We saw a boat have a really difficult pin, which ended up bending the frame (so I was told). 

The left line is the best line. What messes people up the most (and I am guilty too) is that you need to start to pull right just after the top of the tongue. There is some funny water and a spot that looks like a little pourover, but it isn't, you can go right over it. Continuing down the tongue does suck you toward the big waves, as I found out. I ended up hitting the right side of both waves and made it through ok.

In hindsight, I was a little left of my A-line, but I would ride those waves again, anyday! Isn't that why we raft rivers anyway? Why sneak it and miss all of the fun? The river below is moving, but there are two really large eddies on each side to recover gear. As far as difficulty, I would compare it to Skull on Westwater at low to medium flows (easy move if you know where your going, some consequences if not).


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## cataraftgirl

Your assessment of the problem with the left line is exactly what we witnessed. People started down the left tongue, and then were a little too casual, until they were halfway into it and headed for the flipper wave. Once they realized they were in trouble, then they started pulling like hell, but it was too late. This is such a wide rapid, it's hard to see everything from the right shore scout. Getting up on the bluff on river left would be an interesting view.
Like I said, the right hand run was no picnic. Lots of trouble to be had in this rapid.


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## DeeGardiner

I just got off Deso yesterday. We ran Joe Hutch Canyon on June 24th at just over 12,000 cfs. What an awesome rapid! A bit intimidating, but it was fun.
I was rowing a 14' self-bailer. My plan was to start on the left side of the tongue and ferry right as I came down the tongue, building momentum to pull left of the big haystack. But here is what happened:
The river bends left just above the rapid. There is a bush on river left further obstructing the view. So you can't really see the tongue until you are almost there. The left side of the tongue was more turbulent than I expected, and it is hard to get there due to the bend in the river. So I didn't get left as far as I planned, but still planned on ferrying right. I timed it well to exit the tongue near the bottom where there wasn't such a large curler fence. But as soon as I got in to the choppy water it was clear that ferry right was difficult at best. It was hard to even get in a solid stroke with the oars. So I bagged the ferry idea and decided to hit the waves straight. We hit the right edge of the biggest wave and thoroughly enjoyed the ride. Those waves are huge! Much larger than they look from shore.
Boat #2 was a 16' self-bailer. He had the same plan but started his right ferry too soon. He hit the curler on the edge of the tongue which pushed him back towards center. He hit the big wave dead center, but he wasn't lined up straight. The boat tilted and dumped 4 of 4 people out. I think they would have flipped if they people stayed on the boat, but it came down right side up. Two of them were trying to climb back in when they hit the rock wall. Their weight on the upstream tube almost flipped the boat there, and one of them fell back in. They were all safe (other than a few bruises) and had great stories to tell at camp.
Boat #3 decided to take the right run. He had to punch through about 3 small holes and dodge some rocks, but it wasn't much of a problem. This was another 16' self-bailer. I suspect as the water drops this right sneak will become more difficult.

We also watched another group run the rapid. They entered the tongue facing backwards so they could reverse row through the curler on the edge of the tongue. They punched through okay and completely missed the big waves.
They also had two one-man duckies. The first made it right of the wave and had a clean run. The second got pushed left of the big wave and then flipped afterwards. She got pushed in to the mini "room of doom" on river left. On her third attempt she was able to ferry across the current and escape. 

My daughter and her husband were in a two-man duckie and saw her duckie in the room of doom but did not see her (she was behind a rock). They tried to ferry over to rescue the boat, but didn't make it, so they flipped along the rock wall. Our other two-man duckie ran the haystack and had a clean and exciting ride.

With respect to bugs:
The bugs at the put-in were not as bad as I expected from prior years. But that may have been due to the weather. There were scattered thunderstorms and wind that day.
But the bugs were much worse down in the canyon. We had to use our bug hoods at every camp. In prior years we didn't have much problem below Jack Creek, but this year they were all through the canyon. The gnats were bad during meal times and then the mosquitos came out as the sun set.


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## DeeGardiner

I just posted a few photos of our Joe Hutch Canyon experience.

Picasa Web Albums - Dee - Joe Hutch Can...


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## MacDaddy

DeeGardiner, Great pics I am taking 18 scouts down on the 6th of July I am stoked cant wait!!


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## noschoollikeoldschool

We are leaving on Monday morning. Nervous for Mosquitos and Joe Hutch. It has been fun reading all of the posts coming from people just getting off of the river. Thank you all! Will post again about all conditions when we return!


----------



## bradj1

Just got off of Deso on Fri. 6/24. I thought it was running at around 11,000, but from posts here closer to 12,000. We had five boats in our group. All 14 foot self bailers and one 16 foot self bailer. From our experience at this level the best way is to hit the tongue in on the right side, fight through the turbulence, avoid the haystacks and fight through the turbulence to get ready for the wall. 

I guinea pigged the rapid first. Did everything wrong, but didn't flip. Once you are in the rapid it seems impossible to move. I hit the tongue basically in the middle instead of the right. The raft spun 90 degrees to the left and would not move at all. I took 3 hard digs to the right, but the raft would not move. Hit the haystack sideways and did not flip. I have no idea why, but think both of the waves were not crashing at that time. Pretty much a miracle. Better to be lucky than good, I guess. All of our boats made it through but one. This boat seemed to be more in the middle of the run. All three people were knocked out of the boat and down the river. The raft was in the eddy and didn’t flip. Our sweep boat pulled into the eddy right after the wall to have someone climb up the bank to row the boat out of the eddy and pass the wall. Glad it was the 14 footer as my friend said if it was his 16 foot boat he didn't think he could have made it out of the eddy.

Right after we pulled out the scout area to hit Joe Hutch there was a group of boy scouts that came up on us pretty fast. They were in 2 18 foot self bailers and an 18 foot cat. Right before Joe Hutch we saw some of them jump onto the cat. I believe they had about 7-8 on the cat plus most of their gear. They hit the wall sideways and flipped. I rescued 2 of them floating on coolers and one the "guides" didn't know that the rapid was Joe Hutch. 

The new rapid was nice feature to my fifth trip down this canyon. It seems that there have been a lot of flips in this section according to everyone that I have spoken to about Joe Hutch. I will follow this thread to see how this will run at lower levels later this summer.


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## Chicobeard

There seems to be two rapids in this discussion. There is Joe Hutch and Joe Hutch Canyon. 
Joe Hutch Canyon has been flipping boats at around 14-15 k CFS. Joe Hutch is rather straight forward. The JH Canyon however has a large wave train on river left leading up to a wall. There are sneak route river right but be careful. We had a great wrap and while we were Z dragging it off watch 3 boats from Durango flip. Our put in was June 8th. Just scout and decide.


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## Matty

Joe Hutch Creek is first, and nothing to worry about. Joe Hutch Canyon aka "Cow Swim" is the new feature.


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## edd23

So to add to much discussion about this, we just got off today (28th), running it on Friday (26th), probably around 11k. It was significant, to say the least. Our plan was to run down the left, main flow, and hit the big ones straight on. Our 14' SB was first, and he got a bit sideways at the second (bigger) wave, surfed left, went over the last wave totally sideways, but came out upright. Our 16' SB started further right, hit the first lateral and rode the wave train, hitting both the big waves head on with no hesitation on either. It's a hard pull to stay off the rocks, but came thru with flying colors. We then watched CRATE run thru with their 18'-ers. Their plan was as we run Skull - turn backwards and pull thru the first lateral, going right of all the big ones. Only two of the five boats did this successfully, with one getting so far right as to hit the wall twice - still don't know how she avoided a wrap on the pointed boulder. Taking this strategy should be easier as the water drops, as the lateral at the top will get get smaller and easier to break over, but you need to be comfortable pulling with your back to the rapid. By the way, they did not allow any of the customers to run their IK's thru.
If at all unsure, do scout. And if you don't have time to scout, you're on the wrong trip!
It's a hoot, and definitely changes the whole climate of the river. But the anticipation is always worse than the actual event. It was an rush, but not nearly as big as I expected.
Black side down!


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## DeeGardiner

My daughter posted a more complete set of photos from our trip [link unavailable]. This includes some from the whole trip plus more in the sequence at Joe Hutch Canyon. The excitement level is still really high around our house. Now I just wish we had a tripod so our video wouldn't be so shaky.

Oh, and one more comment on the JHC haystacks - they break regularly, so whether you flip or not has a lot to do with timing - or luck.


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## jjcleeves

We launch next month, and in looking at the map, I'd like to camp above Joe Hutch Canyon rapid, at the site Cow Swim. Anyone know if the site is, indeed, above the rapid? Or do you run the rapid and then eddie out at the bottom to camp?


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## DeeGardiner

The Cow Swim camp is below the rapid, and it is mostly gone now. I suppose you could still camp there, but I think most of the beach got washed away.


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## edd23

I disagree. The camp is below the rapid on river right - really nice camp. We stayed there just last Friday and had lots of room - could handle 10-15 people - and a fun time watching groups run the rapid. Be aware that you'll have brief visits from folks walking around the rapid.


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## rivermanryan

Chicobeard said:


> We had a great wrap and while we were Z dragging it off watch 3 boats from Durango flip.


Glad we were able to provide some entertainment!


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## Skyman

We ran Joe Hutch/Cow Swim on Friday. Flows were around 11,500 I think. We did not see anyone flip. Although speaking with other groups, it is still flipping boats. Quite a few I think. I really wonder about the right hand sneak. Could be a bit risky, two or three hidden pourovers that could easily hang up a boat. All three boats in our party made it through just fine. Two of us punched right though the hole, 14' SB, and a 16' cat. The other 14'er barely went right of the big wave. I went into the tongue from the left, ferrying right before the tongue ends. I think hitting the wave more from the right causes less carnage. We took some good pics. I'll try and post some soon.

Skyman


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## DeeGardiner

I finally got around to posting some of my Deso photos...

Picasa Web Albums - Dee - Deso Best Of ...

And here are some specifically of Joe Hutch Canyon (previously posted)...

Picasa Web Albums - Dee - Joe Hutch Can...


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## muttster

Looks like a great time... One of the pics showed that you used an electronic mosquito repeller, how did it work, and if it did what was it? I'm always looking for ways to avoid the bugs.




DeeGardiner said:


> I finally got around to posting some of my Deso photos...
> 
> Picasa Web Albums - Dee - Deso Best Of ...
> 
> And here are some specifically of Joe Hutch Canyon (previously posted)...
> 
> Picasa Web Albums - Dee - Joe Hutch Can...


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## Skyman

Here are a couple of shots from Friday.







Skyman


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## DeeGardiner

The mosquito repeller is actually chemical rather than electronic. I tried electronic many years ago without success, and most Internet reviews said they don't work. While searching I found this chemical device called a ThermaCell.

ThermaCELL Mosquito Repellent

It uses a small butane catridge to heat the insecticide. I was really skeptical but decided it was worth a try. At our first camp (where the mosquitoes were the worst) I set it on our table in the kitchen area. My hope was to help the cooks survive while the rest of us were hanging out in the screen tent.

It takes 15-20 minutes for it to make a noticable difference, but it did seem to help. We had a very gentle breeze that kept shifting directions. After finishing dinner, when I exited the screen tent I was surprised that there were very few mosquitoes anywhere near the kitchen. If you walked 10 feet in any direction they would be thick, but if you walk back to the kitchen, there weren't many bugs.

To further test the device, the next morning I placed it near our port-a-potty which was near the river where the bugs were even worse. After about 30 minutes you could visit the toilet without getting eaten alive. I was impressed.

You can buy them at most sporting goods stores. I picked mine up at WalMart. I just bought a refill kit so I will be ready for our Lodore trip in a few weeks.

We also tried a new repellent with good results. In the past I have found that nothing works except DEET. DEET is still perhaps the best protection, but you shouldn't put it on clothing since it attacks fabric and plastic. In fact my glasses now have nice etch marks on the ear pieces, which I think was caused by DEET.

We tried a bottle of Bite Blocker Bio UD (which we also got at WalMart). My wife learned about it on a TV show. You can spray this on clothing, so we decided to test it out. It has some oder, but not too bad. It worked well and it was everyone's first choice until it ran out. Everyone liked being able to spray their shirts, pants, and socks.


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## Beardance42

Nice pics, skyman !


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## striker

We are launching sunday. It should be a bit lower by the time we get to Joe Hutch. I will try to get some pictures.


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## Mike Harvey

just got back today. the bugs are off the hook. I have never seen anything like it. For us they were no issue on night two at mile 63. If I had it to do over again I would have boated as late as it took to get out of the 26 miles of flat water. Night one we camped around mile 76 and it sucked. We had 8 kids under the age of 11 and they had to hunker down in the bug tent, no playing that night. I had Insect shield clothing and bug head nets for my kids and I am so glad I did. I wish I would have had socks and gloves too. Seriously I set a wag bag groover up in our tent the next morning so my kids could do there thing in peace.

Joe Hutch does not need anymore description all I will say is that I tubed it and paddle my SUP through it after I got my family's raft through. Tubing it was super fun and I highly recommend it. I was able to finish a PBR from the scout beach to the crest of the rapid...perfect. I am motivated to do more tubing. 

The SUP did not go so well, I'll post pictures. I got tossed at the big lateral on the right side of tongue and swam most of the rapid. I think I tore my meniscus as well so that was kind of a bummer. 

Amazing family river trip. Can't wait to do it again.


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## shireen611

It's been fun to read all the posts and watch the videos. Thanks for sharing. I had a good run on June 10th.


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## ritatheraft

Just got off Deso Tuesday 30th. The bugs were so bad the first night that I can't possibly express it in words. 12 people, 5 cans of bug spray, 2 small things of deet, aloe vera incense, lots of booze, swatting dances, and attempts to trick the bastards by climbing rocks... which actually works, for about 15 minutes. We loaded the boats as fast as possible the next morning, no food, no talk, just get the F out. The rest of the trip was bliss. Joe Hutch was fun as hell. no keeper holes, just big waves at that level between 9-11K don't know what it was exactly, but we smashed it in the mouth and lost our beer bag. Tragic but a small price to pay for an amazing time. layover day was like being in the bahamas. can't wait to go back. JH is really no fret. the water is so warm it really wouldn't be a bad swim. I can see a couple big rocks to dogde at lower water on the right, so maybe worth the scout but an obvious left run, follow the wave train, hang on to your beer. Had we had any honey, we would have followed someone's advice to smear honey all over us after the 12 pack that was well on its way down the hatch. Bring a sunshade for camping below poverty canyon. Hot as a mother.


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