# Where to go?



## AdrenalineRush (Oct 18, 2006)

couple questions for anyone who cares to help.

1) anyone know what steamboats like right now? were heading skiing somewhere this weekend, but not sure of reliable snow reports.

2) heading to crested butte for xmas, whats it like? any detail will help

and finally 
3) any freestyle skiiers out there?


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## COUNT (Jul 5, 2005)

I skied with Team Summit Freestyle for the last 5 years competing in all mogul events and aerials. I spent a year on Devo before I moved up to RMF where I competed in almost every competition (probably 90-100 comps over the years if you include Devo, Rocky, Divisionals, Junior Nationals, and non-USSA scored events). I won't be training or competing full time this year but will definately make a few stops on the circuit. I'd love to talk freestyle (haven't seemed to be able to find many buzzards that follow freestyle closely) if you've got any questions.

I've heard Steamboat is still pretty marginal for cover and terrain but haven't been there yet this season, myself.

If you like steep terrain, you will love Crested Butte.

COUNT


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## vaultman14 (Feb 3, 2006)

cb should be good over break thats when we get our dumps hit me up if you want someone to ride with
josh
303 9073124


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## AdrenalineRush (Oct 18, 2006)

any particularly good runs up there?
or places to avoid?


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## COUNT (Jul 5, 2005)

You changed your post before I could reply. Still wanna talk about freestyle?

COUNT


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## AdrenalineRush (Oct 18, 2006)

yeah... im actually thinking of turning it into a physics project. 
so any tips/info/hints, whatever will help


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## 217 (Oct 27, 2003)

this is a joke right?


-aaron


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## COUNT (Jul 5, 2005)

Hmm...where to start talking about freestyle? There is just so much to say. If you're looking at getting into it, I would highly recommend it. It was the best thing that ever happened to me. It's a really supportive community (somewhat unlike what I experienced when I raced competitively) and just about everyone knows everyone. You would want to choose what area of freestyle you are interested in but I would recommend getting into the mogul skiing side of things because that is what will do the most to make you a better all around skier. You do a lot of mogul training and jumping but we also did a lot of freeskiing as a team and really had fun out there. The best way to get into it is to find a ski team and join it. If you just want to try it out pretty much all teams will let you ski with them for a few days if you contact the coach. There are also some great ski camps at A-Basin in April and May for you to get some exposure to the sport and some coaching. I recommend A-Basin Carson Camps with Chris Carson in April and the Team Summit May Camps also known as Camp Babic.

Physics: I know of a number of physics projects that have been done, attempted, and suggested. But a few highlights are as follows:

Studying the trajectories of skiers hitting the jumps in mogul courses(what works, what doesn't, and how "popping" off the jump affects the trajectory).

Looking at the differences between the sliding and carving turn theories in mogul skiing.

Talking about how slight changes in body position (and therefore center of mass) affects the rotation of jumpers on different axes (best to look at aerialists and new school jumpers for this).

I always found it fascinating that the pace-set (time calculated by pitch and length that determines how many speed points a mogul skier gets) says that for full points a mogul skier should have an average speed of 9.8 m/s (that's the same as the speed you reach in the first second of a freefall) down the entire course.

Some cool and helpful websites:

USSA-http://www.ussa.org/
USSA Freestyle-http://www.ussa.org/PublishingFolder/232.htm
Rocky Mountain Freestyle-http://www.rockymountainfreestyle.com/
Cool Freestyle Clips-http://www.marcohofstetter.ch/worldcupvideo/
World Cup Footage (as soon as it happens)-http://www.skidebosses.com/

Hope this helps. Feel free to shoot me any questions, maybe that would help give me some direction in what to talk about.

COUNT


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## AdrenalineRush (Oct 18, 2006)

wow, you are amazing. thank you so much.

why do moguls make you a better all around skiier? just more work? or is there something specific?


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## COUNT (Jul 5, 2005)

Why does mogul skiing make you better skier compared to the other competitive disciplines of racing and freestyle? Well, first off, realize that I certainly do have a bias (and I may catch a little flack for this, too). In racing, you learn to carve your ski and go fast while maintaining control. In the other disciplines of freestyle (aerials, halfpipe, slopestyle, etc.) you will become a great jumper but that is it. In mogul skiing, you will learn to turn using multiple turn concepts. You start by learning to ski the bumps using sliding turns but then as you progress, you will begin to carve more and more in the bumps like a racer does in slalom course (check out Toby Dawson and Luke Westerlund for the most complex and technically clean carving turns in the world; Hannah Kearney and Michelle Roark for sliding turns). As an all around skier, I think it is important to have both of these turns in your bag of tricks for skiing steep and technical terrain. 

In mogul skiing, every course has two jumps. You have to be able to ski the bumps fast, get clean entry to the air, do your trick, and have a clean landing back in the moguls, then do it all one more time. In the other disciplines of freestyle, you are given a smooth take-off with a long consistent landing. You learn to jump really well but you don't get the same skills you do jumping in the moguls and having to land without so much as a bobble of the head or hands. When you can land a jump going 10m/s and take on that first mogul without even thinking about it, you can take on just about anything any mountain will throw at you.

I think the biggest reason so many of the best skiers come out of freestyle is that mogul skiing requires you to have the full package. You have to be a good skier in adverse conditions, it teaches you really good skills in recovery from mistakes, it makes you great jumper, and even more importantly, a great lander . Check out any World Cup or Olympic footage and I think you will see exactly what I mean.

If this doesn't get you excited, I don't know what will:
http://www.skidebosses.com/2004/videos/cm08/cm08_34H.wmv

COUNT


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## AdrenalineRush (Oct 18, 2006)

incredible


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## AdrenalineRush (Oct 18, 2006)

so...what does everyone ski/ride?

just curious cuz i got new skis.


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## COUNT (Jul 5, 2005)

I ski on snow (mostly) .

168 Rossi Mogul (a few different pairs)
168 Rossi Scratch
161 Salomon 1080
163 old school straight slalom skis with tele bindings for when I feel the need to release the heel.

COUNT


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## AdrenalineRush (Oct 18, 2006)

whats tele like? my dad does it...but it looks hard


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## danimal (Jul 14, 2004)

*??*

COUNT why do you ski on such small skis?


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## COUNT (Jul 5, 2005)

Mainly because I'm 5'1" and 130. My 168's are like 5 inches taller than me and most people who don't know me say they look too long for someone my size. Admittedly, the 161's are now a little short for me but they're a good pair of rock skis. 163 is plenty of length on my tele's because when you're down in a turn you've really got more like 190 on the snow.

AR:Telemarking is tons of fun and I love it. It is definately a lot harder than downhill but that's because I've been downhilling for 16 years and only tele-ing for 5. It's frustrating at first but if you stick with it through the learning curve, you will love it.

COUNT


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## Steve Kahn (Apr 17, 2004)

not to totally thread jack, but does anyone else find the whole concept of bumps and jumps pretty weird? 

i mean, the concept of trying to rip moguls, and quickly hit a jump, and land back into moguls seems kind of silly to me. seems preferable to have a freestyle comp., and throw down on a big table with a nice landing, acheiving much more spectacular and cool freestyle, since you're going big and landing on a nice slope. consequently, one could have a bumps contest, and still judge on speed and style, but not worry about a jump, where you don't get much air (relative) and pull stupid looking 1970's tricks anyways?

seems to me like mixing the two makes for a lower quality comp.


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## COUNT (Jul 5, 2005)

I know where you're coming from and this debate has gone round and round in circles in the freestyle competition committees for years. First, they do have those competitions; they're called Big Air, Slopestyle, Halfpipe, and Aerials. And honestly, how much *skiing* skill does it take to huck yourself off a ginourmous table? It takes amazing gymnastic abilities but there is actually very little skiing going on in between: all they have to do is be able to take-off and land centered on their skis and ride it out. Freestyle mogul skiing's goal is to make the best all around skiers. If a competition were just moguls, it would very quickly reach a plateau where skiers just can't go any faster and still make turns. As it is, these guys are skiing a 250 meter course with fast times for the day between 18 and 21 seconds. You can do the math. And that's with two airs. Just jumping isn't that hard and just skiing the bumps isn't that hard. It's putting the two together that makes the sport challenging. Check out the video links I posted above. It's no longer guys throwing boring 70's tricks. You've got Dave Babic throwing 1080 D-Spin in World Cup. Toby Dawson throwing a sick cork 7. Tapio Luusa throwing Misty 7 and Nate Roberts throwing back-full. Heather McPhie goes bigger on her D-Spin in the bumps than most guys have gone off of a table. And these guys actually do have a huge pad (the world cups have 10-15m pads _after_ a couple meter table). They're just consistently landing at the end of these pads. If you haven't been to a mogul comp in the last year, I would highly suggest going and checking it out. The sport has changed significantly every year for the last 8 years and is now completely different from what it used to be. New school has entered mogul skiing. You will see most of the tricks you can think of: backflip, front flip, loop, D-spin, Misty, back-full (a couple guys have thrown back-double-full in moguls, too), and all sorts of combinations of corks and off-axis tricks with any assortment of grabs thrown in (cross, mute, and tail are most common, though). You'll see guys doing everything from 180's to 1440's (if you're lucky). Yes, big air comps will have bigger harder tricks because they don't have to be able to turn right away when they land, but mogul comps will always have an amazing combination of skiing and jumping. Steamboat has a world cup and I think Telluride has a Noram this year. Definately check it out, I know I'll be there.

COUNT


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## AdrenalineRush (Oct 18, 2006)

anyone with some good mogul tips? especially for really widely spaced moguls and snowblindness?


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## COUNT (Jul 5, 2005)

Good mogul tips? Everyone's got a set of things that works for them. For me if I can keep my hands up and my eyes up, I ski well.

Widely spaced moguls? The most important thing is to be in a good stance centered over your skis. This will allow you to be patient and trusting as you slide (or carve) into the next mogul. If you aren't patient enough and turn your skis too early, you will also probably turn your hips and upper body away (which leaves you in an uncontrolled position with a bad line). I would focus on keeping your hands/hips/upper body directed down the fall-line as you patiently slide into the bump before you turn.

Snowblindness, eh? Get a yellow-lensed goggle (or clear works alright). Best investment I ever made, especially as a competitor. As for skiing, when visibility is low, it is even more important to keep an athletic forward stance and again be patient as you are waiting for wherever it is you want to turn, be it on a mogul or certain spot on the slope. You have to be especially mindful of what your feet are telling you because you will get more kinesthetic input than visual input. It is a natural tendency for people to want to lean away (into the hill) when the light is low but this is what you have to fight because it will put you in the absolute worst position for dealing with what comes at you.

It's hard to give advice when you're not there to dissect what's good and bad and show what positions are good but I hope this makes sense. Where do you ski? I'd be happy to hit the hill with you sometime.

COUNT


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## sj (Aug 13, 2004)

Count Back in the day(80 thru 88) I loved freestyle. And was lucky enough to ski or Bump as I use to say with some of the best of the day in Breck and at the Bird. I still follow the circut to keep up Hannah H. is my fav woman and still searching for the heir apprant to Jermy B. 

I still tell people that you have to embrace Bumps to be a true expert all around skier. Even if telemmark is your choice. sj


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## COUNT (Jul 5, 2005)

Well said. Haven't seen much of Hannah lately but wow, just thinking about it reminds me of how beautiful her turns were. It's hard to think of someone as the "heir" to a 22 year-old but I think we're going to see big things out of Dave Babic and Nate Robertson this year. The team lost a lot of its long-time members this year and we've got a lot of young blood. It's going to be an interesting year. I can't wait.

COUNT


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## AdrenalineRush (Oct 18, 2006)

i usually ski steamboat, but this year were doing a lot of copper too, since they have better snow. and tehn for christmas were heading to crested butte, but never been there before...so i have no idea what its gonna be like.


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## AdrenalineRush (Oct 18, 2006)

alright... so if i wanted to actually start trying some jum,ps and stuff for real (and i have never really tried before) how do i start?
i psych myself out really easily, and then never do it.
any ideas?


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## AdrenalineRush (Oct 18, 2006)

SNOWDAY!!
well, partial anyways.
PSD just got shut down an hour early!


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## COUNT (Jul 5, 2005)

Definately learn what it takes to psych yourself out so that you can make yourself go before that happens. As far as learning to jump goes, the friendliest way (in my opinion) is on a classic mogul jump because you don't have to worry about having to clear a table (you can go as big or small as you want). Learning in a terrain park is fine but when I was learning I always freaked out about not going too big but still going big enough to clear the table. If you're doing it in the park, get out there first thing and inspect all the jumps, slide up the transition to the lip to get a feel for the speed and check the size of the table. Realize that it will hurt more to undershoot and land on the table than it will to go big and crash. If you go out early, you will have time to check it out and then get some jumps in before everyone gets there. Also, the snow and speed will be very consistent in the morning. But yeah, ideally you'd go find a place in the woods on a powder day and just have fun with it. Having someone with you who at least kind of knows what they are doing will help, too.

COUNT


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## Steve Kahn (Apr 17, 2004)

*jump*

my 2 --

i have to disagree with count - i think learning to jump in the moguls is an odd idea. i can see how a huge table is intimidating, but i would say more friendly than jumping in a mogul field. 

find a smaller table, or crappy groomed run bump to kick off of. once you get the feeling, pony up at the table - watch someone who knows what they're doing, and match their speed/speed checks. 

you'll be surprised how smooth it will feel when you nail the landing. like butter!!!

i would say, if you don't have complete control over yourself, forget about freestyle or getting much air to keep from getting hurt. i don't know how many broken tailbones i've seen on the ass side of a table.

good luck!!


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