# ARK at FLOOD is WORLD CLASS!



## yetigonecrazy (May 23, 2005)

^ amen! i love climbing onto the top of a massive wave train and looking over and seeing youre even with the level of cars on the highway........i must confess the Ark at 5,000 is easily up there on my list of best river trips ever!


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## bvwp1 (Oct 27, 2003)

Ran Browns last night at 4500, most fun ever on that run, not any harder, just faster and bigger. A must do


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## chepora (Feb 6, 2008)

The wave in bottom of staircase (I think)...HUGE!!!!! Brown's was just amazing. I'm not sure if I'm ready for the Gorge at over 4000...I've run it a 3000 fine but even at 3 it was awesome!! Hugging waves the whole way


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## CUBuffskier (Jul 7, 2005)

I agree, world class for sure. If only I wasn't at work today. Brown's is possibly the most kick ass class III on the planet right now. Just when you get through zoom and think its the biggest on the water, it just gets bigger and bigger the more you go down in the run.

I highly suggest Brown's for those that haven't earned all their stars like me for a high water numbers run.


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## Jahve (Oct 31, 2003)

Ya know I have been sayin it for years .....

Glad you boys had a good time.


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## jmack (Jun 3, 2004)

Agree 100%- Browns at 4500 is the best play run I have ever done. Big easy rapids and amazing surf everywhere.

Pine Creek/#s at 3400 was pretty good too...


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## Jahve (Oct 31, 2003)

My arms are like noodles but I try and get in a section every day as this will not last long.. It does look like we will have these super high flows for another day or two..

IMO right now the #'s can not be beat for big play.. Outstanding! 

In other high water news.. The upper spot came in here in BV! One side is this big green wave that is so smooth and fun. Staricase spot is a super fun surf/loop/blunt spot but then comes the next hole.. As if we needed yet another treat here in the BV park the 3rd feature is flat out unbelieveable! It is the best spot in a great park and one of the best on the entire upper river. If you have not got a chance to ride it you need to. Then the 4th spot has a great steep green wave on the river left.. The 5th spot or the lowest one is still fast bouncy fun but has mellowed and can be caught from the river right eddie. All 5 are great and when taken in one sitting are world class for sure - dont miss out! 

Also if you are beat from paddlin and lookin for something to do head up to the cascades on chalk creek. Very impressive..


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## Mike Harvey (Oct 10, 2003)

USGS Real-Time Water Data for USGS 07087050 ARKANSAS RIVER BELOW GRANITE, CO

looks like a drop today. They are still releasing 1400 from Twin but the river is down a fair bit since this morning. Is it cool up there today NEK.


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## Mike Harvey (Oct 10, 2003)

Detail Graph
never mind, there is your answer. they shut off Clear Creek.


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## pcrawford (Apr 13, 2005)

Predictions?? - Do i skip work tomorrow to get some of this or wait for the weekend. Will we see these flows this weekend?


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## xena13 (Mar 21, 2007)

*Don't wait!*

I'm ditching tomorrow. It's already coming back down.


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## Mike Harvey (Oct 10, 2003)

pcrawford said:


> Predictions?? - Do i skip work tomorrow to get some of this or wait for the weekend. Will we see these flows this weekend?


Hard to predict. But there is a lot of water in the river so it is hard to imagine it falling too far too fast.


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## Mike Harvey (Oct 10, 2003)

not at boating site, but Greg who write this is one of the savviest guys around when it comes to Arkansas River plumbing. I would guess he is close to accurate although it is a little hard to understand why Clear Creek is not putting out any water today. 
Fishing Conditions Report


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## Ken Vanatta (May 29, 2004)

As big as Pine, Browns, and the Gorge are at 4-5k, I think the Numbers are optimum at around 2600. Which, is forecasted again soon and could last for a little while. See Advanced Hydrologic Prediction Service: Pueblo: Arkansas River at Wellsville

The goods are good and will be really good again in a couple of days.

Cheers!


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## rg5hole (May 24, 2007)

4 days, highest water in over 10 years on the ark and we got it ALLLLLLLL!

capped it off with a haggered paddle down #'s at 4200 this morning!

If you guys have not yet done so you need to drive down to the royal to get some BIG water. tomorrow should be over 5K again (last day for that), and let me tell you how good that is...bacon, ben and jerry's ice cream, an orgasm, and every other kayak run you have done do not even compare...get some before it is gone! right to center on sunshine, left at sledge, left to right at the ledge in the narrows, and hard right at boat eater...that is it, all the rest is chocolate 7 layer cake, with ice cream, and a cherry on top.

I cannot believe the weekend I just had! I am thoroughly exhausted.


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## TimWalker (Oct 25, 2003)

Hit the Gorge tonight after work, just got home. It was good at 4970, but it was washed out in many spots. I think about 3800 is much better quality. I'm not complaining, but if you have to choose, go paddle the numbers and piney if you want even more excitement. I do have to say, the water temp in the gorge is optimal right now...refreshing but not too cold. The dam surf wave was great!


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## foulhooked1 (Mar 29, 2010)

*DONT KID YOURSELF*. Browns over 3000 is not the same little class III you are used to. Consiquences are way higher, water is pushier, waves and holes are bigger and there are eddie lines that can mystery move a boat into the next dimension. Take it easy, its super fun but this is not one you want to boat alone.


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## chepora (Feb 6, 2008)

foulhooked1 said:


> *DONT KID YOURSELF*. Browns over 3000 is not the same little class III you are used to. Consiquences are way higher, water is pushier, waves and holes are bigger and there are eddie lines that can mystery move a boat into the next dimension. Take it easy, its super fun but this is not one you want to boat alone.


So wait...the water gets pushier, and waves and holes are bigger at high water? Hmmm hadn't quite thought of it that way before. /sarcasm/


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## foulhooked1 (Mar 29, 2010)

Maybe understating conditions is not the best idea for novice boaters reading threads wanting to get their chops in big water.


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## Kyle K (Dec 17, 2008)

Paddled the Gorge yesterday at around 5100. New to CO so this was the first time I've seen it. The 3 of us ran Sunshine left/center from top to bottom, down the tongue. I backendered off the big wave at the top in my Superstar (2nd day in the boat - just sayin') but I rolled up in time for all the laterals at the bottom. Getting left at Boateater is paramount in my opinion: That hole is big and ugly. It's straightforward though; just head right. Other than that it was big, fun waves with some holes to dodge. I wouldn't want to swim in there though, it would be a long one with a lot of down time. 

The play wave at the dam was super fast and fun but I was pretty tired by the time we got there. Spins were easy. My more skilled partners were throwing nice blunts. 

We started at the put in about 10 miles above the Gorge run to warm up on that section, don't know the name of it. The whole 20 miles probably took less than 2 hours if you take out the play time. Overall a super fun run (when I wasn't feeling nervous).


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## Kyle K (Dec 17, 2008)

RE: Novice boaters in the gorge at high flows: This may be rated IV but a swim would be an ordeal. There are few good eddys (mostly full of sharp rock and man made debris) and there are lots of big waves and boil lines that could lead to serious down time. Flush drowning is very possible. Going for a ride (in or out of your boat) in the hole in Boateater would be an experience I wouldn't wish on anyone. 

My personal advice: If you don't have a _solid_ big water roll don't go in there. The moves aren't too hard but the consequences of a swim could be bad indeed.


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## foulhooked1 (Mar 29, 2010)

Kyle K said:


> We started at the put in about 10 miles above the Gorge run to warm up on that section, don't know the name of it. The whole 20 miles probably took less than 2 hours if you take out the play time. Overall a super fun run (when I wasn't feeling nervous).


The section above the gorge is called parkdale. the big rapid is "three rocks" called "reefer madness" over 5000. take center right line or make sure you packed a lunch. As big as anything in the gorge at this level.


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## Kyle K (Dec 17, 2008)

Thanks foulhooked1. Three Rocks _was_ very big. Hate to admit I cheated it on river left and didn't run the meat.


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## MustacheTheGauley (Feb 16, 2010)

Was in Browns yesterday twice. First run 4450, second 3850. Chased down a commercial boat that was upside down for more than 4 miles. Gappers had to walk it, I assume. First run Sidels was a monster. I was looking up at the top of the wave from my raft when I was down in the meat.
Second run Big Drop and #5, 7 were the show stoppers.
Good Times!!


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## rg5hole (May 24, 2007)

to be clear kyle, the move at boateater is a RIGHT move and it is approaching if not a class V move. (V-?)

no noob belongs in the royal at high water and the ratings stop at 3500cfs which is a solid IV+ rating. So at 5K you can do some math to get V- or even V out of it. Sunshine all the way to just past sledge is one rapid, with madatory holes and super violent currents and eddies that according to whitewater ratings that would classify as a V. Admittedly I do not think it is that difficult less the move around boat eater. But if you are upside down or swimming I think V is fair

I think hooked is talking more about browns as a noob may be looking to have some fun on what is normally an easy run. Just saying that the most difficult rapid (zume) is actually one of the easier ones at high water and it is as difficult as it normally is. So if you think about portaging zume, perhaps you should run shuttle on this one. Once again low water in browns is class III, high water rating stops at 2200 which is rated IV- (IVs), obviously at over 5K the rating would show more class IV.

The numbers over 4K, I have no idea, IV+ still? Maybe V-? I don't really know I guess.

What do you guys think?


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## FlipLine (Jun 8, 2010)

Does anyone have a contact for a shuttle service for Browns & The Numbers? I'm Scheeming a trip out of Northern New Mexico this weekend. Gotta get my brand spank'n new 16' Sotar Cat. wet!
Thanks,
--Cliff


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## Kyle K (Dec 17, 2008)

RG5Hole: Yes, the move at Boateater is definitely right. We aimed for and caught the eddy on river right below the hole. (I mentioned running left at 3 rocks way upstream - was that what you were referring to?)

I agree, the moves may be big water IV but a swim could be fatal. Not sure how I would rate it. IV moves with V consequences? This could get into a long discussion. Suffice it to say from my perspective it is a very fun run that deserves a lot of respect. It got my adrenals going, that's for sure.


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## CO_Patrick (Feb 22, 2008)

*Actually, you said left AND right at Boateater.*


Kyle K said:


> Paddled the Gorge yesterday at around 5100. New to CO so this was the first time I've seen it. The 3 of us ran Sunshine left/center from top to bottom, down the tongue. I backendered off the big wave at the top in my Superstar (2nd day in the boat - just sayin') but I rolled up in time for all the laterals at the bottom. Getting left at Boateater is paramount in my opinion: That hole is big and ugly. It's straightforward though; just head right. Other than that it was big, fun waves with some holes to dodge. I wouldn't want to swim in there though, it would be a long one with a lot of down time.
> 
> The play wave at the dam was super fast and fun but I was pretty tired by the time we got there. Spins were easy. My more skilled partners were throwing nice blunts.
> 
> We started at the put in about 10 miles above the Gorge run to warm up on that section, don't know the name of it. The whole 20 miles probably took less than 2 hours if you take out the play time. Overall a super fun run (when I wasn't feeling nervous).


*
Also, I'd say it's a Class IV move. It's pretty easy to cut across the lateral river right a bit above it and paddle around it with a wide berth. Although, I've heard it does flush and someone attempted to surf Boateater the other day.
*


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## rgAHOLE (Jun 8, 2010)

I think what rg5hole is trying to say is that if you are a "noob" then you have no business leaving the Denver Metro area. Period. 

I couldn't agree more. If you can't stomp the gnar like me and my crew then stick to the milk run. I'm tired of my laps getting ruined by chasin' down noobs that don't know their place. 

If you don't boat V then I suggest you run our shuttles until the shit drops out! No offense - you are either BORN a bad ass like me and 5hole or you ain't.

One more thing, noobs. Please try to remember to have our take out beer on ICE when we get there. If you do a good job we MIGHT let you paddle in June next year!

Peace!


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## Kyle K (Dec 17, 2008)

Doh! I stand corrected. I did write left (and right). Major blunder! I meant RIGHT in a big way. Thanks to you and rg5hole for pointing that out. 

I agree, the move wasn't too hard, there is plenty of room to get right. That said, that's one mean hole. I don't ever want any part of it.


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## Ed Hansen (Oct 12, 2003)

Kyle K said:


> Doh! I stand corrected. I did write left (and right). Major blunder! I meant RIGHT in a big way. Thanks to you and rg5hole for pointing that out.
> 
> I agree, the move wasn't too hard, there is plenty of room to get right. That said, that's one mean hole. I don't ever want any part of it.


Now that we have our right/lefts sorted out.....Where's the love for that hole that IS the right half of the river just above the top drop into Sledgehammer?  That one seems to want to rival boateater IMO. I don't recall seeing that bad boy ever look pretty at ANY level, especially now. I've never heard a name for it but it deserves one.... I hearby christen it "The Mallet", in the same tradition of it's namesake rapid, Sledgehammer. I'll sprinkle it with holy water (in the form of my spit) on the way by tonight so as to make it all official and sh|t.

You're welcome.

SYOTR


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## Roy (Oct 30, 2003)

If you've already got a Sledgehammer, what do you need The Mallet for? The Anvil would make more sense. Just sayin'...


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## foulhooked1 (Mar 29, 2010)

are you talking about bird-drop hole.


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## Ed Hansen (Oct 12, 2003)

foulhooked1 said:


> are you talking about bird-drop hole.


No, that is about 1/2 mile down stream... and washed out at 5000.


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## Ed Hansen (Oct 12, 2003)

Roy said:


> If you've already got a Sledgehammer, what do you need The Mallet for? The Anvil would make more sense. Just sayin'...


Okay, The Anvil it is... and i'm out a here... we meet at 5:30 for this evening's run.


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## rg5hole (May 24, 2007)

I thought the move above boateater was difficult, and I watched 3 others miss it to the extent they got a piece of the corner and gave us a scare. That is one DAMN big hole though, 15-20' depression! Yeah, I guess you guys are right though, easy enough to make even if you botched a couple feet. There are some really big hits in there.

hansen you C Springs guys should go see the #'s, they are rockin and rolling. You guys play hard, in fact there might not be any play left when you get done! You can tell me what you think is harder #4 or #5 when you get back, highly recommended.


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## TimWalker (Oct 25, 2003)

Hey, I love the Gorge, it was a favorite trip after guiding fat Texan's down the river during my guiding days(when Sunshine was hard). But that was years ago. Simple fact is, I have to call bullshit on Boateater being a class V move or IV for that matter. Lining up and punching a lateral is class III, tops - nothing technical about it(except the right/left thing). The hole, that is a class V beatdown, no arguments, but so are 20 holes up in the numbers and that's why you miss them. If you know that Boateater is there, you shouldn't even be near it - um, um, Dan. If you don't know where it is, well you just might have a class V experience in a class III rapid.

The real deal is, if you swim in the gorge at high flow(or low flow for that matter), it can be ugly. Sharp rocks and man made debris add to the danger. I would agree that the swims are harder than the moves. That's why you load up, snap the hips and freaking roll, Don't puss out, do gain your composure, and roll because a swim is always gonna be harder than rolling up and paddling your kayak. Swimming, that is why I'm affraid to raft in big ass water!! I don't want to swim. This goes double at 3 rocks!!

Now, I'm going to finish my beer, remember the good old days, and feel good about my 40 year old body paddling an All Star down the gorge at 5K and hitting up the numbers last week. Feel humbled that I once again got to experience a historically high flow - other experience was in 1995 at 7200(yes, I'm aware of the historical data not supporting 7200 but the historical data is the mean score for the day so I'm sticking with the water talk info we had at the time). Feel the need to at least keep the "noob" populations rhetoric in check, with the caveat: everything I said is relevant to your experience. So, go experience but and be careful out there.

By the way, this is when I miss Chunderboy flamming things up. That shit was entertaining. RIP Chunderboy.


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## TimWalker (Oct 25, 2003)

Ed, you had me at mallet but anvil works, too. It was good paddling with you the other night. Sorry I can't make it out again anytime soon, I'm remodeling my house.


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## foulhooked1 (Mar 29, 2010)

Tim Walker, good point well taken. the fun does happen in the boat. I was a guide on the ark in 95. I was out on the afternoon in question. We spent that june watching the water rise up the staircase at FB from our beach accross the river. Top of the third stair. The reason historical data doesnt support flow is because the gauge at heckla doesnt measure over 6300 cfs. I have always called it 7300 anyone with a problem with that certainly wasnt out there that day. I remember looking down on the rr tracks from#5 in the staaircase and #7 may be the biggest wave ive run to this day. I was in the R3 12 foot star. if you were out there I was in the same pod since there was only one trip that launched that afternoon. Im assuming you worked for PT since they were pretty much the only other boathouse on the river with the balls to go out. good to know there are still a few of us out there that remember and reval in the memories of those times


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## fatbob (Apr 11, 2008)

jayhawk rock has the most epic wave to make surfing!! there is a barrell man.


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## BoilermakerU (Mar 13, 2009)

Pir8 Jim said:


> Was in Browns yesterday twice. First run 4450, second 3850. Chased down a commercial boat that was upside down for more than 4 miles. Gappers had to walk it, I assume. First run Sidels was a monster. I was looking up at the top of the wave from my raft when I was down in the meat.
> Second run Big Drop and #5, 7 were the show stoppers.
> Good Times!!


What's the best loine in a raft at these flows at Seidel's? It's flirting with 4,000 again today...


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## raftus (Jul 20, 2005)

Seidel's in a raft? Yesterday we had two boats run left and two boats run right. The left line requires punching through a lateral but not bouncing off the bank - otherwise you eat the meat of the hole. The right line means going just left of a large feature that's about ten feet off the right bank and punching the weaker right side of the main wave/hole. One of the boats that was on the right line was about ten feet further left than ideal, they got typewritered and turned a bit sideways but escaped w/o flipping. There were some good marker waves for the right line just above the main drop if you decide to scout.


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## rg5hole (May 24, 2007)

we lapped sidels right down the middle in kayaks and that was awesome! the rafts we saw were 50%, all we saw were left lines. I heard a guide mention you have to go in with left angle punch that top lateral and then switch angle to the right real quick to avoid the flip. 

Good news is it is about the most forgiving hole in colorado at high water, no recircs, big ass pool at the bottom, hell if we had mack's raft I think the center line would have been exciting in it too. 

yeah Tim, you are right the Royal gorge is class III at MOST during flood stage, especially around boateater, everyone thinking about running shuttle for us in browns should make sure the beer is on ice and just put in at stone bridge, run parkdale through the gorge, it is super easy. we'll pick you up after we get done with our booty beers.


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## CO_Patrick (Feb 22, 2008)

Well rg, it probably helps that I knew where to go already at that level. But I also didn't wait until right above the hole to make my move either. Maybe I'm biased?

Tim, I am still considering consequences a little. Busting through that lateral isn't hard, you're right. But it's still pretty swirly on the other side of that lateral, and I could see blown balance or a brace if necessary leading to a panicked roll attempt to get up and out of the way before going into Boateater still. A shame I didn't get a chance to paddle with you and Ed, but even at huge flows I can still only stand so much of the Gorge, plus I love my creekboat more.


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## rg5hole (May 24, 2007)

Pat was that you in the pyranha? also, did I boat with you tim, were you the guy wanting me to throw ends in my Jefe? I know Ed, he's got chest hardware and an embudo for sale right? I'll look you guys up next time I'm in salida area, you do the same if you are down in the 4crnrs.


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## producerchik (Jun 2, 2008)

If anyone has video of Seidel's at this level, I really would like to see it.


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## CO_Patrick (Feb 22, 2008)

*Wasn't me. I was in my EZG. I haven't been down to that area of the state, usually the closest I get is Escalante. I want to get down there eventually though so I'll keep you in mind.
*


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## spiderguide (Jun 4, 2009)

Agreed. Worked commercially Oregon, & CO. 3000+river miles.
Browns at 4400 what a blast, super consistent, warmer, FAST, Big, on my top 3 list. - that is in a 13' Maravia Spider!!! (green)
Canyon Door #2!
Big Drop!
Q: For those Colorado veterans - how long has it been since the last 4500 browns flow?


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## GoodTimes (Mar 9, 2006)

'97, I believe?


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## Kyle K (Dec 17, 2008)

I suppose I shouldn't comment, being a noobie to CO, but I'm gonna. I had never run the gorge before so didn't know the lines or even the names of the rapids. The guys I were with were both long time veterans and knew all the lines so they just gave me verbal beta as we went down, although we did take a quick look at Sunshine. I had no idea the hole in Boateater was coming, or even existed, but simply followed one of my buddies right. He told me beforehand to follow him when he gave the high sign. After seeing the hole I was glad I was paying attention. 

Tim, you got me on the boat, All Star beats a Superstar for being more squirrely. I will take a_ little_ credit for only having ever been in a Superstar once before. I've got you on age though. I'll be 53 next month. Maybe us old guys can paddle together sometime?

All in all, a really great run. I'm liking CO a lot so far! 

Oh yes, Jon Kahn, one of the guys I was boating with, was there in '95 and he remembered 7k+ too. Must have been something.


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## rg5hole (May 24, 2007)

Kyle, welcome to colorado. Unfortunately, like my buddy RobinJ you are pretty screwed and will never want to boat the ARK again, 800cfs will be like the longest day of your life. 

It is fun at low flows, don't get me wrong, but the big water just puts a whole different perspective on it. Like us it sounds like you hit the lotto too! When we left Durango on Friday the ARK was barely medium! We figured it peaked a week prior. 

I am still jazzed about my 4 days on your river! Stoked on meeting about 20 new solid kayakers too.

robin J has some video of us lapping into sidels by the way, he said he would post soon.


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## maureen (Jul 22, 2008)

These last two weeks have been AWESOME!! The Jack Daniels tastes a whole lot better (if that's possible) after gutting every hole down the Ark. Face hurts from luaghing so much. Been a while since I've seen these levels and just wish they could stay.


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## rg5hole (May 24, 2007)

my buddy RobinJ took some helmet can of Brown's at ~4600cfs
this has canyon doors immaculate conception wave
rafts and kayaks gutting sidels
and other very, very fun footy, please enjoy...

Brown's Canyon at High Water on Vimeo


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