# Kayakers and fisherman



## Salidaboater (Nov 5, 2013)

How can we educate Kayakers that if they see a fisherman it is common courtesy to go to the other side of the river, and not just Kayak right down the lane of the fisherman.

Had 3 Kayakers do that to me today.


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## kayakfreakus (Mar 3, 2006)

I fish, I kayak, I raft, I tube, I canoe - will never SUP, F*ck that noise.

Sharing the river means interacting with others. Sometimes that is not the “perfect” way for either party. Yes, if at all possible kayakers should not disturb a fisherman and keep a distance. Fisherman sitting at a play spot or the only navigable river channel should expect to be disturbed. Don’t know the details or your interactions but everyone should be giving a little and respecting other users.


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## LSB (Mar 23, 2004)

How can we educate fishers that if they see a kayaker it is common courtesy to go to the other side of the river, and not just fish right down the lane of the kayaker.

Had 3 fishers do that to me today.


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## Will Amette (Jan 28, 2017)

I fish. I paddle kayaks. I paddle canoes. I row rafts. I even do a little grabbing crabs and spearfishing. Some anglers prefer kayaks to go far to the other side from where they are standing, but some anglers are FISHING the opposite side, and they want you to hug the bank near them. I always like to ask if anything's on the bite as I approach and ask WHERE they want me to go. If possible, I oblige.



I can't count the times that after we've gone by, an angler gets FISH ON. Surely when Steelhead are running, they move and hold, move and hold. They bite when they're on the move. If a kayak goes over where a chromie is holding, it often will move it out of the eddy, and then angler gets a bite.


Years ago there was an angler fishing in one of the very few play spots on a local river. Our group had stopped there for lunch. There was plenty of room to fish the eddy and the seam -- not just on the play feature. I had an angler try to hit me with his lure -- bounced it off my deck. What an f-tard.


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## tango (Feb 1, 2006)

Salidaboater said:


> How can we educate Kayakers that if they see a fisherman it is common courtesy to go to the other side of the river, and not just Kayak right down the lane of the fisherman.
> 
> Had 3 Kayakers do that to me today.


Maybe try talking to them in person instead of crying on the internet.


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## mikesee (Aug 4, 2012)

Salidaboater said:


> How can we educate Kayakers that if they see a fisherman it is common courtesy to go to the other side of the river, and not just Kayak right down the lane of the fisherman.
> 
> Had 3 Kayakers do that to me today.



Engage them. 

I fish and I boat. If I'm playing a fish or casting to one as boaters approach, I either pull my line out and wait, or if I'm right into something I'll engage them and ask them to hold up a second.

They can't read your mind. They don't know where the fish are, nor do they see the river the way you do. 

You have to engage them and help them to understand.


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## Dejan Smaic (Jul 22, 2017)

Fly fishermen need to understand river etiquette...play spots need to be shared. Boats coming from upstream have the right of way.

Last year, I had to do a wet exit because 8 rafters kept bumping into me as I tried to roll up for a 3rd time. I swam with my paddle into a fisherman to keep from going over a low head dam...this was serious survival mode. I was screamed at by the fisherman. He did not get it.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

Will Amette said:


> I fish. I paddle kayaks. I paddle canoes. I row rafts. I even do a little grabbing crabs and spearfishing. Some anglers prefer kayaks to go far to the other side from where they are standing, but some anglers are FISHING the opposite side, and they want you to hug the bank near them. I always like to ask if anything's on the bite as I approach and ask WHERE they want me to go. If possible, I oblige.
> 
> I can't count the times that after we've gone by, an angler gets FISH ON. Surely when Steelhead are running, they move and hold, move and hold. They bite when they're on the move. If a kayak goes over where a chromie is holding, it often will move it out of the eddy, and then angler gets a bite.
> 
> Years ago there was an angler fishing in one of the very few play spots on a local river. Our group had stopped there for lunch. There was plenty of room to fish the eddy and the seam -- not just on the play feature. I had an angler try to hit me with his lure -- bounced it off my deck. What an f-tard.


This, all of it.


I don't fish, but I try to stay on the far side of the river. Make eye contact and a friendly wave. If they want you to come under their rod, it's on them to say so...but should be an easy ask if you've established eye contact and are moving toward the opposite shore to show your intention.

It's a shared resource. The guy fishing a play spot and expecting to remain undisturbed, and the guy who paddles directly over the lure in an open channel are both arseholes.


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## carvedog (May 11, 2005)

Dejan Smaic said:


> Last year, I had to do a wet exit because 8 rafters kept bumping into me as I tried to roll up for a 3rd time.


Why were you upside down in a raft lane?


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## Dejan Smaic (Jul 22, 2017)

MT4Runner said:


> This, all of it.
> 
> 
> I don't fish, but I try to stay on the far side of the river. Make eye contact and a friendly wave. If they want you to come under their rod, it's on them to say so...but should be an easy ask if you've established eye contact and are moving toward the opposite shore to show your intention.
> ...


I certainly don't think the kayaker paddling over a lure into a play spot is an asshole. Sometimes, you have no choice but to drop in. Usually, paddlers coming into a drop yell out coming through...at least I do. Anyone can be a fisherman, not everyone can be a kayaker. With that said, kayakers understand | have a better sense of river etiquette.


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## jaffy (Feb 4, 2004)

You get assholes in every sport, but in my experience a higher percentage of road bikers and fishermen think "sharing" means everyone else should yield to them.

This is not meant to be a comment aimed at the OP. When going by a fisherman, I think it's common sense to try and avoid the area they are fishing if possible. 

If someone is fishing a play spot, on the other hand, they should expect to need to share with boaters.


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## mcfarrel (Apr 1, 2006)

*Make way for Tonnage!*



carvedog said:


> Why were you upside down in a raft lane?


In a recent news release issued by the United States Coast Guard Auxiliary, the Coast Guard and the Auxiliary wanted to educate boaters, specifically recreational boaters about the dangers of playing in traffic.

Traffic, as defined by both the release and the federal navigation rules are "narrow channels" that "restrict the movement of vessels, which are constrained by their draft". Herein lies the tale of why us small boaters should not play in traffic when the big boats are there.

Source: American Boating Association:Bigger vessels have right of way


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## Dejan Smaic (Jul 22, 2017)

jaffy said:


> You get assholes in every sport, but in my experience a higher percentage of road bikers and fishermen think "sharing" means everyone else should yield to them.
> 
> This is not meant to be a comment aimed at the OP. When going by a fisherman, I think it's common sense to try and avoid the area they are fishing if possible.
> 
> If someone is fishing a play spot, on the other hand, they should expect to need to share with boaters.


As a cyclist who competed at the elite level most of my 30 yr career, I can say share the road. I am also heavily involved with the national racing scene as an motorcycle official and photographer. Being hit by a motorist who thinks otherwise suck while lying on teh road thinking your dying, and costs the motorist legal bills, and possible jail time. Personal experience.


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## dirtbagkayaker (Oct 29, 2008)

When I'm fishing and ppl float through, I go on smoko. Just saying.....


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## Elvez (Mar 29, 2005)

Try running Blackarby rapid on the Mickey Mouse section of the SFCW sometime when the water bumps up in March for an early season run.
A dozen steelheaders crossing lines from both banks, fishing through the meat and tail of a rapid with one line. You in an eddy 50 yards upstream trying to get them to notice you, let alone give a shit. It's a gauntlet with 6/0 hooks on 30# test.


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## wack (Jul 7, 2015)

Dejan Smaic said:


> Anyone can be a fisherman, not everyone can be a kayaker. With that said, kayakers understand | have a better sense of river etiquette.


Spoken like an entitled road biker who likely rides 2-3 abreast up/down canyon roads in the mountains.... (hwy 7, 36, 34, 119) then gets pissed when someone passes them a bit too closely.


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## jaffy (Feb 4, 2004)

wack said:


> Spoken like an entitled road biker who likely rides 2-3 abreast up/down canyon roads in the mountains.... (hwy 7, 36, 34, 119) then gets pissed when someone passes them a bit too closely.


Riding 2-3 abreast on mountain roads is actually not as bad as riding 2-3 abreast on roads with bike lanes. If there is no bike lane, cyclists are supposed to take the lane, so having 2-3 abreast makes no difference than a single cyclist. When cyclists ride 2-3 abreast on roads with bike lanes, blocking traffic, that's pure selfishness (and I believe against the rules of the road).

I do think people are crazy to bike on curvy mountain roads with no shoulder and filled with buzzed drivers and RVs, especially with how little people pay attention to what they're doing these days, but they do have the right to be there if they're ok with taking on that risk.

I ride my bike at least 200 days every year, so I have at least a bit of perspective.


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## phillersk (Apr 24, 2006)

Right when we thought the buzz was dead.


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## Dejan Smaic (Jul 22, 2017)

jaffy said:


> Riding 2-3 abreast on mountain roads is actually not as bad as riding 2-3 abreast on roads with bike lanes. If there is no bike lane, cyclists are supposed to take the lane, so having 2-3 abreast makes no difference than a single cyclist. When cyclists ride 2-3 abreast on roads with bike lanes, blocking traffic, that's pure selfishness (and I believe against the rules of the road).
> 
> I do think people are crazy to bike on curvy mountain roads with no shoulder and filled with buzzed drivers and RVs, especially with how little people pay attention to what they're doing these days, but they do have the right to be there if they're ok with taking on that risk.
> 
> I ride my bike at least 200 days every year, so I have at least a bit of perspective.


It's 2 abreast, unless traffic is within 300' of the group. Motorists, by law, are required to give 3 feet between their vehicle and teh rider. Curvey mountain roads are not as bad as you think except for very touristy areas, where every out of state vehicle needs to stop in the middle of teh road to take a pic of bambi. 

But, the reality of it all is, when you have race pace packs (20+), it's pack mentality, and we are all guilty of it...it's all about attacks, chases, counter attacks, and piss breaks.


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## wack (Jul 7, 2015)

From CDOT: https://www.codot.gov/programs/bike...ed-manual/2008-10-official-bicycling-laws.pdf
(6) (a) Persons operating bicycles on roadways shall ride single file;
except that riding no more than two abreast is permitted in the
following circumstances:
(i) *When riding two abreast will not impede the normal and
reasonable movement of traffic*; or
(ii) When riding on paths or parts of roadways set aside for the
exclusive use of bicycles.
(b) Persons riding two abreast shall ride within a single lane.


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## Dejan Smaic (Jul 22, 2017)

wack said:


> From CDOT: https://www.codot.gov/programs/bike...ed-manual/2008-10-official-bicycling-laws.pdf
> (6) (a) Persons operating bicycles on roadways shall ride single file;
> except that riding no more than two abreast is permitted in the
> following circumstances:
> ...


Sounds about right, except it does not state motorists are required to give 3 feet.


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## SlipShot (Mar 26, 2018)

As a Fly fisherman I don't mind when kayaks or tubers come through as long as they don't lollygag. The fish are use to seeing this and will settle down in short order. What does bother me is when people fishing on rafts come through and slow down or back roll to fish where I'm fishing. Yes it happen way more than it should.


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## Johnny Yuma (Mar 8, 2017)

Well, 
I hate it when I am running the shuttle on my bike and some feller with a 16' rig on a 12' wide trailer complete with straps a flapping, comes within 6 inches of sending me to my maker. However, I just give them a thumbs up, albeit somewhat sarcastically, knowing Ill most likely see them on the river. I recon we have to share the rivers as well as the roads, and the trails. And, don't forget, we can also "Share The Women, We Can Share The Wine" -Jerry Garcia


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## jbomb (Apr 10, 2015)

I've always been surprised at how fishermen feel like it's just perfectly fine to stroll right through the middle of my camp on their way to / from the water... although it does generally remind me I haven't played fetch with the dogs lately.


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## 49101 (Jul 14, 2015)

Salidaboater said:


> How can we educate Kayakers that if they see a fisherman it is common courtesy to go to the other side of the river, and not just Kayak right down the lane of the fisherman.
> 
> Had 3 Kayakers do that to me today.


We all have to try to avoid each other, respect space, share the river, etc.
That being said, if you are fishing in the only reasonably navigable channel or standing out in the main current like a jackass chances are you will find yourself thinking that there are a lot of jerks out today.
The common denominator in all three interactions between you and the kayakers is you.


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## ColoradoKayak15 (Oct 7, 2017)

Most fishermen I have come across on the river are pretty nice but I totally understand that the kayaks should try to avoid the fishermen, once a fishermen passive aggressively cast his line right next to me because I got to close and that was enough for me to realize to go to the other side if possible


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## lmyers (Jun 10, 2008)

I don't really understand why this is so difficult. I see fisherman all the time and never have a conflict. Try to make eye contact with them asap. No need to speak, usually they don't want to talk. Go as far out of the way of their line as possible without getting into shallows where you bang off rocks. Smile. That is generally all it takes.


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## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

lmyers said:


> I don't really understand why this is so difficult. I see fisherman all the time and never have a conflict. Try to make eye contact with them asap. No need to speak, usually they don't want to talk. Go as far out of the way of their line as possible without getting into shallows where you bang off rocks. Smile. That is generally all it takes.


I love that you told the guys to "smile"!


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## Roguelawyer (Apr 2, 2015)

When it comes to talking about fishermen on a whitewater forum, the road bikers I prefer (whether on a windy narrow canyon rd or not) would be two breasts.

It has been my experience that most kayakers like two breasts and other peoples beer so when fishing have your girlfriend sit accross the river with some visible beer cans in order to divert the traffic out of the fishing lane. 

Probably won't need to worry about the rafts.


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## jeffro (Oct 13, 2003)

I'm in a raft. I give them space but don't try to get to the other side of the river. I avoid putting my oars in so that I don't spook the fish. Should I be doing more? I figure floating over the top isn't going to cause much harm.


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## LSB (Mar 23, 2004)

Fuck em! I have zero respect.
Anybody thats pestering animals that they dont plan to eat can stay the hell out of my way. They might as well be hunting with a paintball gun.


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## Ninja_Nico (Mar 28, 2013)

Roguelawyer said:


> It has been my experience that most kayakers like two breasts and other peoples beer so when fishing have your girlfriend sit accross the river with some visible beer cans in order to divert the traffic out of the fishing lane.
> 
> Probably won't need to worry about the rafts.


Still have to worry about rafts though as this tactic does not work with rafts.


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## bob larrabee (Apr 4, 2007)

There are many valid points here that are contradictory. Hunting with a paintball gun doesn't seem right to me but I bet it's really fun. The one thing I can't wrap my head around is how did the raft sneak up and run you over. Have you almost been hit on your bike by a steamroller?


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## [email protected] (Jun 1, 2010)

Kayakers/Rafters and fish have a great ally in fishermen/fisher-women. Their clubs like Trout Unlimited are constantly involved with working to improve river access, clean water issues, minimum flows and fighting to stop unnecessary dams. What is good for the fish is good for kayaking or rafting "usually". They spend their time and money on river and fish habitat preservation. I for one do not mind passing by quietly and as far as is reasonable out of their way. I have never had one not respect my privacy, space, peace and quiet, so I try and do the same.


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## bystander (Jul 3, 2014)

bob larrabee said:


> There are many valid points here that are contradictory. Hunting with a paintball gun doesn't seem right to me but I bet it's really fun. The one thing I can't wrap my head around is how did the raft sneak up and run you over. Have you almost been hit on your bike by a steamroller?


I don't know this particular situation, but rafts are not as slow as you might think. When the whole rafts paddles together, they are faster than most whitewater kayakers, unless they are trying to go fast. 2nd, it's pretty easy to get caught in a feature and have a raft run you over.


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## dirtbagkayaker (Oct 29, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> Kayakers/Rafters and fish have a great ally in fishermen/fisher-women. Their clubs like Trout Unlimited are constantly involved with working to improve river access, clean water issues, minimum flows and fighting to stop unnecessary dams. What is good for the fish is good for kayaking or rafting "usually". They spend their time and money on river and fish habitat preservation. I for one do not mind passing by quietly and as far as is reasonable out of their way. I have never had one not respect my privacy, space, peace and quiet, so I try and do the same.


Wow, you should research the Spokane Whitewater Park and how Trout Unlimited shut it down. And why? Then look at where the park was going. And what a red banded trout is. What Trout Unlimited says natural red banded trout spawning habitat looks like. Because all i saw was busted up concrete, re-bar, garbage, and bums. Still that way today. Super sad loss for Spokane as community if you ask me. The truth is Trout Unlimited wants kayakers off the water in the PNW. Just saying....


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## lmyers (Jun 10, 2008)

dirtbagkayaker said:


> The truth is Trout Unlimited wants kayakers off the water in the PNW. Just saying....


That is the furthest thing from the truth in Colorado. I can not speak to the PNW, but here the whitewater community and the fishing community work hand in hand on a plethora of issues. In fact many people are members of both American Whitewater and Trout Unlimited....


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## [email protected] (Jun 1, 2010)

dirtbagkayaker said:


> Wow, you should research the Spokane Whitewater Park and how Trout Unlimited shut it down. And why? Then look at where the park was going. And what a red banded trout is. What Trout Unlimited says natural red banded trout spawning habitat looks like. Because all i saw was busted up concrete, re-bar, garbage, and bums. Still that way today. Super sad loss for Spokane as community if you ask me. The truth is Trout Unlimited wants kayakers off the water in the PNW. Just saying....



I said "usually", there are always exceptions.


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## matt man (Dec 23, 2011)

I have had fisherman linger, while I twas trying to fornicate zby the side of the great stream....

Other than that, I have no qualms, just as long as they don’t try to kick me off the run, or keep The flows down to a trickle, I’m happy to share the river, and hopefully have an ally in conservation.

P.s.
Still got laid, in spite of that orvis wearing fuck....


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## mtnparty (Mar 20, 2014)

There is plenty of places to fish with no boating activity. When I fish boaty areas I accept there is going to be interaction of different people enjoying the river... it's trout fishing and who really cares... I mean how many trout have you caught in your life? Like a million? I cannot and will not take trout fishing seriously as it would ruin the fun for me.

Party on Wayne.


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## lmyers (Jun 10, 2008)

The only problems I've ever had were floating through the Wilder property on the Middle Taylor. Those fishermen are just plain assholes. I've never seen anyone spew vulgarities and make physical threats on a river like that. They truly believe they are entitled to a private experience because they paid big bucks. A few years ago they even installed vertical angle irons under a bridge on their property. According to them it was to discourage boaters, but it appeared to be an attempt to seriously injure or even kill someone....


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## dirtbagkayaker (Oct 29, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> I said "usually", there are always exceptions.


Fare enough, That "usually" probably comes attached with a motor boat launch for fisherman paid for mostly by us? hehehe. But, I wont support Trout Unlimited after their attack on the Spokane Whitewater park.


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## elkhaven (Sep 11, 2013)

Make no mistake, TU only cares about trout, not people, not boating, not even their members.... they'd sell their grandma out for 5 square feet of spawning habitat. If your needs align with theirs, then they'll be your best friend.... if not, they'll cut your throat.

As far as fishermen and boaters getting along.... some times they will sometimes they won't.... If you're boating in a popular fishing location, be prepared for some annoyed looks and the occasional warning cast off your bow but don't take it personally and try to give them room... if you're fishing in a popular boating locale, be prepared for some skittles to float through your line, be patient or go somewhere else; you don't need end up with surly sauce on your Flutie flakes. 

Normally, awesome boating and awesome fishing don't occur at the same place so it should all work out in the end.... but there are some real idiots out there so there will always be some strife, shrug it off and go on with your bad self.


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## Rick A (Apr 15, 2016)

dirtbagkayaker said:


> [email protected] said:
> 
> 
> > I said "usually", there are always exceptions.
> ...


Who do you mean by us? I am a boater as well as a fisherman and a hunter. Hunters and fisherman pay far more in taxes than boaters do. Have you ever heard of Pittman Robertson?


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## messinaboutinboats (Feb 10, 2019)

Lotsa people love rivers, it turns out. Not all of them agree on etiquette. We don’t have a ‘right’ to recreate exactly how we want.

I wanted to run that one hole but there was a boat surfing in it? Woe is me, I have to miss that one. Won’t ruin my day. 

You want to fish at your leisure but a boat scares away the prize fish? Woe is you. Hope it don’t ruin your day either. 

Fist shaking and blaming the other party is definitely the answer when there is conflict.


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## [email protected] (Jun 1, 2010)

dirtbagkayaker said:


> Fare enough, That "usually" probably comes attached with a motor boat launch for fisherman paid for mostly by us? hehehe. But, I wont support Trout Unlimited after their attack on the Spokane Whitewater park.



"At the time of its cancelation of the grant, however, Recreation and Conservation Office officials stated that concerns over potential impact on redband spawning sites played no role in its decision."


Read the story here for a little more balanced view point:
https://outthereoutdoors.com/whatever-happened-with-the-spokane-river-whitewater-park-proposal/


https://spokaneriver.net/news/recreation/what-happened-to-the-whitewater-park/


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## dirtbagkayaker (Oct 29, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> "At the time of its cancelation of the grant, however, Recreation and Conservation Office officials stated that concerns over potential impact on redband spawning sites played no role in its decision."
> 
> 
> Read the story here for a little more balanced view point:
> ...


Did you read the second article that stated unplanned permits and red band habitat. 

Turns out, I was actually at many of the meetings and TU has a way to dragging something out to the point where people leave the project. TU used their pressure to push costs over the top, apply political pressure, and delay plans. TU is a group of bullies and the only reason the Spokane WW park failed. 

It was all these ad hoc extra permits that TU pushed for knowing they could not be completed in a few months required by the grant. TU had years before to come out and put their input into the project..

You are free to have your view and support the causes you wish. 

Take care, DBK.


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## dirtbagkayaker (Oct 29, 2008)

Rick A said:


> Who do you mean by us? I am a boater as well as a fisherman and a hunter. Hunters and fisherman pay far more in taxes than boaters do. Have you ever heard of Pittman Robertson?


Bahahaha hehehe weee, 

you think the gun tax goes to boat launches.. That's cute. :roll::roll:


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## Rick A (Apr 15, 2016)

dirtbagkayaker said:


> Rick A said:
> 
> 
> > Who do you mean by us? I am a boater as well as a fisherman and a hunter. Hunters and fisherman pay far more in taxes than boaters do. Have you ever heard of Pittman Robertson?
> ...


That's not what I said. I said they pay more in taxes and that money funds the protection of and access to the wild places we all enjoy. It has also been used to recovery of endangered species. The AIS sticker a boater might be required to purchase has not proven to be nearly as effective. So they have just as much of a right as paddlers to use river access points and the river itself for recreation.


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## Ever_Cat (Jan 20, 2009)

Like others that have posted, I boat, I fish and sometimes I boat to fish. Yesterday, the Saturday of Memorial Weekend, I opted for a day of fishing on the SF South Platte River, a VERY popular river corridor southwest of Denver. Crazy right?

As I drove past the Waterton Canyon parking lot, I happened on a couple of good friends gearing up for kayak run. A few miles upriver I found an unoccupied spot, settled in and cracked my first cold one of the day. Throughout the day, packrafts, kayaks, SUPs and even a mini (and funky) oar rig floated past me. I chatted with one group about the looming runoff and waved and said Hi to the others and they reciprocated. No antagonism. No angst. Just a diverse group of folks doing their thing while enjoying and sharing the river on a beautiful Spring day. As it should be.


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## theusualsuspect (Apr 11, 2014)

On the Saturday of Memorial Day Weekend I floated through Browns Canyon with 5,000 other people in boats and kayaks. I was the only boat fishing. 

I caught piles of fish, I pulled over about 15 times to let paddle rigs and kayaks pass so I didn't clog up the run and everyone was nice to one another. Like someone else said, a kayaker blows up some hole I'm fishing I move on or wait 5 minutes. They're god damn trout, get serious.


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