# Welfelt Fabrication Raft Frame (Mini Me / Mini Max)



## SkySkiDuck (May 28, 2012)

Does anyone have any experience or reviews on the Welfelt Fabrication Raft Frame for both the Hyside Mini-Me and Mini-Max rafts?


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## sammyphsyco (Aug 15, 2012)

How sturdy is it with no front cross bar?


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## bmagtutu (May 29, 2009)

*John's Frames are bomb proof!*

I posted this on a previous thread, hope this helps.

In response to oarframe, I think you need to see and experience John's frames in person. John and many others may share a different view of perfection. To quote Antoine de Saint-Exupery, "Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away." I have one of John's frames and use it regularly, around 30 to 50 times a year, to run all kinds of rivers. We run remote hike in runs like the Gunnison Gorge, and Black Canyon. We run extended multiday trips like Cataract, the Grand and the Dirty Devil. John has mastered his set up. He can load his boat with his kitchen, food for four for 6 days, a fire pan and wood, drinking water, his overnight gear, and all the other gear(safety/repair/first-aid) into his Hyside mini-me and not look overloaded. In fact every trip we go on where there is a big boat, for us that means bigger than 10.5 feet long, the rower of said raft generally is in awe of what John's frames can do. I have seen him convert around 20 big boaters into mini-mers. In fact Hyside has focused on his frame in the last catalog and according to them because of John's frames Delta CO is currently the World Capital for Mini-mes. His frames are also bomb proof, at 14 lbs he has found away to make them almost indestructible. I love my frame and he is currently building me one for my new mini-max. The best part of the frame is it is so collapsable that two people can carry the frame, the boat, the raft/fishing gear, and even overnight gear. We can be anywhere in only one load. But, they aren't for everyone. Which is good for me, because if everyone had one it would be much harder to get to rivers void of people.

On a side note, John used his frame and mini-me to do a 30 day self support (meaning he carried his own gear and food) down the grand at 40,000 cfs.


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## Grifgav (Jun 20, 2011)

bmagtutu said:


> I posted this on a previous thread, hope this helps.
> 
> In response to oarframe, I think you need to see and experience John's frames in person. John and many others may share a different view of perfection. To quote Antoine de Saint-Exupery, "Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away." I have one of John's frames and use it regularly, around 30 to 50 times a year, to run all kinds of rivers. We run remote hike in runs like the Gunnison Gorge, and Black Canyon. We run extended multiday trips like Cataract, the Grand and the Dirty Devil. John has mastered his set up. He can load his boat with his kitchen, food for four for 6 days, a fire pan and wood, drinking water, his overnight gear, and all the other gear(safety/repair/first-aid) into his Hyside mini-me and not look overloaded. In fact every trip we go on where there is a big boat, for us that means bigger than 10.5 feet long, the rower of said raft generally is in awe of what John's frames can do. I have seen him convert around 20 big boaters into mini-mers. In fact Hyside has focused on his frame in the last catalog and according to them because of John's frames Delta CO is currently the World Capital for Mini-mes. His frames are also bomb proof, at 14 lbs he has found away to make them almost indestructible. I love my frame and he is currently building me one for my new mini-max. The best part of the frame is it is so collapsable that two people can carry the frame, the boat, the raft/fishing gear, and even overnight gear. We can be anywhere in only one load. But, they aren't for everyone. Which is good for me, because if everyone had one it would be much harder to get to rivers void of people.
> 
> On a side note, John used his frame and mini-me to do a 30 day self support (meaning he carried his own gear and food) down the grand at 40,000 cfs.


That response wasn't even remotely like an advertisement...not at all


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## Stiff N' Wett (Feb 18, 2010)

No kick bar? Do you just pile the gear on floor?


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## fourtyfloater (Aug 26, 2011)

What type of water will you be running? Day runs or overnights? I have owned one of John's frame for a year now and it is a great frame for my mini. I have not used it for multi day trips but know several people who have with no problems. The main advantage is the weight and very simple design. Have fished using it mostly. If you are interested in rowing one then just PM me. Always looking to get out. Spring run off is coming soon!


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## jspoon14 (Aug 5, 2012)

That is a lot of money for a little frame, that is close to the cost of the the frame for my 14'er.


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## mervo (Dec 29, 2014)

As a person with a 10.5 footer, I would love to see John start a "light is right" thread. 

This style may not be for everyone, but for those of us that wonder how he has packed for Grand trips, etc., it would be awesome to see his set up, i.e what bags he uses, food, stove, groover, fire-pan, etc. 

Just my opinion, which isn't worth much.


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## John the welder (May 2, 2009)

I think there could be a forum for small boats and going light. Between the pack rafters, mini-round boaters and small cats there has to be a bunch of us out there. I started out with home made river running float tubes (before there were pack rafts) and did 16 day river trips in Alaska. We went backpack style and when I got a mini-me it seemed huge. Now most of our trips are semi-backpack style, all the comforts of a big boat and the size and weight of a small boat. Nice for those rivers that have not the best put in or take out.


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## gobigohome (Jul 18, 2007)

*Mini and now puma frame*

Hopefully the video attached from GAuley Fest two years ago with the frame on the puma. The year before I had it on the mini me I felt like a giant in the boat.


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## gobigohome (Jul 18, 2007)

gobigohome said:


> Hopefully the video attached from GAuley Fest two years ago with the frame on the puma. The year before I had it on the mini me I felt like a giant in the boat.


I forgot to say. This is a riverboat works frame and has been great.


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## mervo (Dec 29, 2014)

John the welder said:


> I think there could be a forum for small boats and going light. Now most of our trips are semi-backpack style, all the comforts of a big boat and the size and weight of a small boat. Nice for those rivers that have not the best put in or take out.


Agreed. A "going light, small boat forum would be amazing!" 

How do we make this happen?!?!?!?!


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## dscott58 (Nov 4, 2014)

My 12 So tar should be hear next month... I started a thread a while back about going light and had some great responses which I've acted on already... would love that type of forum...


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## k2andcannoli (Feb 28, 2012)

mervo said:


> Agreed. A "going light, small boat forum would be amazing!"
> 
> How do we make this happen?!?!?!?!


That'd be great, as long as the kayakers know they're not invited.


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## Stiff N' Wett (Feb 18, 2010)

I've spent all week getting my mini rigged for a six day salt trip. It's been a lot if fun. I put all my contents in ammo cans into drybags except for one small ammo can repairi kit/tool kit. My drybox and dry food storage is a bucket with a sealed lid. We are leaving the partner steel and bringing either a few wisperlites or a smaller two burner. I made a small beaver tail strictly for cases of beer.I could go on forever but would love hearing other ideas. What do people use as groovers for the mini boats?


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## mervo (Dec 29, 2014)

Stiff N' Wett said:


> I've spent all week getting my mini rigged for a six day salt trip. It's been a lot if fun. I put all my contents in ammo cans into drybags except for one small ammo can repairi kit/tool kit. My drybox and dry food storage is a bucket with a sealed lid. We are leaving the partner steel and bringing either a few wisperlites or a smaller two burner. I made a small beaver tail strictly for cases of beer.I could go on forever but would love hearing other ideas. What do people use as groovers for the mini boats?


Pics of the final setup, rigged, would be awesome!


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## John the welder (May 2, 2009)

we use the old york boxes or the newer nrs canyon boxes under the seat for stoves and kitchen stuff. Light, has a seal and crush proof. Fits in a mini-me or mini-max.


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## okieboater (Oct 19, 2004)

any one tested those relatively new NRS york type boxes to see how waterproof they 
are?

NRS version looks like a better seal than the York boxes I still have and use


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## John the welder (May 2, 2009)

Yes they are better than the old York boxes but anything that has to stay dry during a flip gets sealed in something else. The boxes are nice to organize gear and aren't too heavy.


Sent from my iPhone using Mountain Buzz


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## mikepart (Jul 7, 2009)

John,
Exactly what services does your shop provide? I called a year or two ago to ask about some custom dry boxes and the guy told me that that they make electrical substations and he didn't even know what a raft dry box was. Do you typically work with rafters on custom stuff, or are you just doing larger projects and the mini me frames?

Sorry to hijack the thread.


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## John the welder (May 2, 2009)

As far as boat stuff we are set up for mini-me and mini-max frames. We could do dry boxes but I think there are shops that specialize in dry boxes and have proven designs. We don't make electrical substations but are certified aluminum pipe welders and travel all over the country welding in substations. We don't have the pipe bending equipment like Riverboat works and the other boat frame builders don't want to compete with them for that market. We do a lot of high end metal fabrication in Telluride, Aspen and other similar places. Give me a call and lets talk about what you have in mind.


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## jakemccoola (Feb 14, 2021)

John the welder said:


> As far as boat stuff we are set up for mini-me and mini-max frames. We could do dry boxes but I think there are shops that specialize in dry boxes and have proven designs. We don't make electrical substations but are certified aluminum pipe welders and travel all over the country welding in substations. We don't have the pipe bending equipment like Riverboat works and the other boat frame builders don't want to compete with them for that market. We do a lot of high end metal fabrication in Telluride, Aspen and other similar places. Give me a call and lets talk about what you have in mind.


Sorry to resurrect / highjack this thread but I have been doing some research on small frames and have heard nothing but great things about Welfelt frames. I am wondering if it would work for a RMR Thundercloud...it is a right between the mini-me and the -max in length but has a bunch more rocker than the -me. It seems I would have to either glue another thwart attachment to the center (as the thunderclouds thwarts are fore and aft) or run the frame on the front thwart attachment (which might be fairly weird- sort of like a bow-mount frame). 

This seems like it would work, right?


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