# Lower Salmon Run



## Turner (Oct 10, 2006)

Yes. Get an early start and camp around Maloney Creek 1st night, somewhere in or near Blue Canyon the second night and motor out on the Snake the last day. Might be some long days but it's possible, there are a few flat spots you could use the motor on the Salmon too...


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## idahofloater (Feb 23, 2011)

Hell yes. motor boats do it all the time.


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## noot (Jan 24, 2012)

Turner 
How many hours do you concider a long day floating? also how long do you think it would take to motor out from the confluance to heller bar?


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## Turner (Oct 10, 2006)

Sorry, I see that you are going the end of July. You should still have a decent flow then and you shouldn't have too long of days. But Pine Bar to Maloney Creek is about 22.5 miles, about 15 miles downstream is the mouth to Blue Canyon. If you stayed at the entrance to the canyon you'd have around 5 miles left of the Salmon and 20 miles on the Snake. Or you could stay at Half and Half Rapid the first night which would put you at mile 17.5 for the first night. Anyway, with a 5hp motor it takes me around 2.5-3 hours to motor from the confluence of the Salmon and Snake to Heller Bar. Usually it is the one motor for 2 or 3 boats tied together. Let me know if you have any other questions, I have run that section many, many times


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## noot (Jan 24, 2012)

who would you reccomend for a shuttle?


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## mcfarlandandrew (Apr 8, 2006)

Www.allriversshuttle.com
Located in whitebird on the way in so very convenient. Have always provided us with great customer service.


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## noot (Jan 24, 2012)

is there a good place in whitebird or riggins to rent a river toilet? I heard that the rangers are sticklers for the right pooper


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## mcfarlandandrew (Apr 8, 2006)

Not that I know of. Possibly a commercial outfit in riggins but very unlikely in whitebird. And yes you need an approved waste system along with all the other requirements listed on the usfs site like fire pan, strainer, blah blah. There are way too many 'cheap groover' threads on here to show up without at least a gamma/bucket/wag bag combo.


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## ksmilbrath (Aug 12, 2009)

Pine bar run in 3 days is doable but pretty long days. Luggable Lu bags with 5 gallon bucket and pack bags in Rocket box. No issues with the Rangers. Been inspected several times with no issues.


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## Turner (Oct 10, 2006)

You can buy the 5 gallon buckets and gamma seal screw top lids at the discount store for cheap in Grangeville, which is 15 min. up Hwy 95 from Hammer Creek. Wash it out at the SCAT machine in Asotin for $1 then reuse it or throw it away. Much cheaper than bags, plus any bag system is not allowed:
Fire Pan and Portable Toilet Information
it needs to be SCAT machine compatible. I don't know of anyone that rents them but you could try the outfitters in Riggins: MRO, Exodus, Epley's, Brundage, EPIC. Or Hughes in Cambridge might have them.


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## noot (Jan 24, 2012)

Any guesses what the flows will be the first weekend of July? do you think it compairs to the Main Payette at 10500 as far as size of rapids and difficulty?


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## Sully1987 (Jun 12, 2012)

*shuttle for lower salmon*

Central Idaho River Shuttles also would shuttle the lower Salmon for you. Call 208-983-0049


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## idahofloater (Feb 23, 2011)

noot said:


> Any guesses what the flows will be the first weekend of July? do you think it compairs to the Main Payette at 10500 as far as size of rapids and difficulty?


20 to 25k as a guess. And at that flow its nothing like the Main Payette at 10k. rapids are spaced out and a good deal of them are washed out. The slide become a contender for sure. You may very need that motor. 17k offers my fav flow with lots of continued wave trains and the slide is "somewhat" doable in a smaller 14' boat. With luck it could get down that low.


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## blind mango (Jul 10, 2011)

*From Vinegar to Heller*

Hi - Since you've done this several times.. how many days with leisure paddling and camping for the Vinegar to Heller stretch? Or is it better to just do Vinegar to Hammer? Currently the flows are around 33K - we will be going sometime late July maybe early August so lower flows? Is the motorized traffic thick on this stretch or just until one hits the Snake? Lastly what are the rapids like? I appreciate any tidbits of info. I've been to the BLM site and see they have the river maps for downloading. Experienced boaters looking for some down time. Thanks again.



Turner said:


> Sorry, I see that you are going the end of July. You should still have a decent flow then and you shouldn't have too long of days. But Pine Bar to Maloney Creek is about 22.5 miles, about 15 miles downstream is the mouth to Blue Canyon. If you stayed at the entrance to the canyon you'd have around 5 miles left of the Salmon and 20 miles on the Snake. Or you could stay at Half and Half Rapid the first night which would put you at mile 17.5 for the first night. Anyway, with a 5hp motor it takes me around 2.5-3 hours to motor from the confluence of the Salmon and Snake to Heller Bar. Usually it is the one motor for 2 or 3 boats tied together. Let me know if you have any other questions, I have run that section many, many times


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## WhatWouldJesusBoat (Feb 26, 2011)

*Same trip in Kayaks?*

Sorry to hijack this thread but perhaps you could help. We are thinking of doing a Vinegar Creek on down self support kayak trip next week. We are bit unclear on the fire pan and waste system requirements, especially for kayaks. 

1. Are you required to bring a firepan if you don't plan on having a fire?

2. What is the best waste system for a kayak on this run? Can you use Wag Bags and a sealed PVC container? Or can you use a dry bag to hold the Wag Bags?

3. Does a PVC container work with a SCAT machine?

Thanks, we're new to the BLM regs. Any help is appreciated.


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## lll100 (May 11, 2011)

There will be no enforcement out on the water til flow is lower than 20K, Still three weeks out for that. Fire pan and shovel is required for ALL groups. Turkey pan works folded up it a small ammo can(Ash can). They are flexible on waste systems. 5 Gallon buckets work in the SCAT machine so PVC should be fine but will need to strap it in the machine some way. Can do 30-40 miles a day or more at the high flows. No motor required, the Snake will have a steady current all the way. Paddled out the Snake from the confluence in less than 2 hrs at few years back. Slide is a bit softer at 30K than 20K. Good Luck.


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## idahofloater (Feb 23, 2011)

1. Are you required to bring a firepan if you don't plan on having a fire?

Yes, I carry a couple heavy aluminum trukey pans and fire blanket. I fold the pans up in a square. If I use it for a fire. I rase it on rocks and center it over the blanket on top of a small pile of sand.

2. What is the best waste system for a kayak on this run? Can you use Wag Bags and a sealed PVC container? Or can you use a dry bag to hold the Wag Bags?

I use wag bags. I have a piece of 4" PVC pipe 1 1/2' long that I glued screw caps on each end. I use sticks to hold the wag bags and stuff them in the PVC pipe when done. 

3. Does a PVC container work with a SCAT machine?

A 5gal bucket does but not 4" pvc so much. I go to RV dump stations and wash out the pvc pipe after I have desposed of the wag bags.


You will also need a strainer for waste water even if you don't have wash tubs, invasive species permit, and lastly one pfd per person and your solid!


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## WhatWouldJesusBoat (Feb 26, 2011)

Thanks for the beta. Very helpful. We are looking forward to some good times out West!


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## Turner (Oct 10, 2006)

idahofloater said:


> 2. What is the best waste system for a kayak on this run? Can you use Wag Bags and a sealed PVC container? Or can you use a dry bag to hold the Wag Bags?
> 
> I use wag bags. I have a piece of 4" PVC pipe 1 1/2' long that I glued screw caps on each end. I use sticks to hold the wag bags and stuff them in the PVC pipe when done.


WAG bags are NOT allowed below Vinegar Creek to Heller Bar. The rangers are enforcing this, so come prepared...You must have a SCAT or dump station compatible system. No poo in the dumpsters, there have been fines issued and boaters not allowed to go on their trip.

Fire Pan and Portable Toilet Information


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