# Need advice on first raft purchase please!



## GosuPaintballer (Aug 26, 2011)

I've been researching and reading forums about rafts until i'm blue in the face and my head hurts. The difference between pvc vs hyp., warrenties, glued vs welded, etc. etc. One thing i want to hear from those of you that raft a good bit, is I'm looking at getting a raft for single day use only. I want to be able to fit 4 or 5 at the most adults in it, but also be able to R2 it if i want. Also, the use will be for class 3, 4, and possibly 5 (if we figure out what we're doing over the next few years lol). Most stuff where i live (south east) is a lot more low volume water compared to what you guys are running out west. And i want a boat I can "play in" vs just a big barge going down the river. From what i've read it looks like a 10 or 12 foot raft would work best for this? Also, what brands (and length) should i be looking at from what i've described on what i'm gonna use it for?


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## johnovice (Jul 17, 2009)

Rent a few or at least go to a shop and look/sit to get a size idea. I am a novice to rafting, but can tell you I have a 10.5' Hyside Mini-max that one COULD put 5 paddlers in, but it would be VERY tight. I think 12 is dirt minimum for 5 paddlers and still fine for R2. For the southeast, you could go a tad narrow. I'll let others with more experience chime in -- they may say 13' is minimum!

Edit: if you do a search on mimimax, I know someone here posted a pic of 3 in that boat -- it would give you some idea. Raft pictures on websites most often show a raft that could be 8 ft. or 18 ft. -- no reference objects!


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## GosuPaintballer (Aug 26, 2011)

johnovice said:


> Rent a few or at least go to a shop and look/sit to get a size idea. I am a novice to rafting, but can tell you I have a 10.5' Hyside Mini-max that one COULD put 5 paddlers in, but it would be VERY tight. I think 12 is dirt minimum for 5 paddlers and still fine for R2. For the southeast, you could go a tad narrow. I'll let others with more experience chime in -- they may say 13' is minimum!


 
One thing is i can't go to a shop or try out different brands. All the outfitters near me are 3 hours or more drive except for the WW center in Charlotte (they use NRS rafts). And the outdoor stores that are close (an hour - 2 hours away), and sale WW stuff only stock kayaks and canoes.


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## love2ski2fast (May 21, 2007)

My advice for what little it is worth is this:

A good R2 boat that will also take 5 not gonna happen, if it will take 5 comfortably and safely it will not R2 well, and if it R2 well it is not gonna take 5 yada yada yada....

My advice buy either the minimax -- a very good r2 boat that will take 3-4 down river, or just go for the gusto !!! and buy a shredder a ripping R2 boat, but it will alwyas be a R2 only boat.

I find it is hard enought to find a single good r2 partneer, forget about gettting 4-5 others to raft with you.... harder to get the groups together than you think it would be in my experence.

The hyside paddle cat is a very stable fun boat great for s.e. rivers, after all it was for easteren rivers that the orginal airtight shredder was made.

Shredders roll up very small, they are super light (i think mine is like 45lbs) so you can take them on a airplane to costa rica or where ever, they are VERY stable and forgivving on the water, while still be very quick manuvering, I run everything from class III to V here in colorado in my shredder and have a BLAST !!!!

hope that helps

"shredder" Scott


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## love2ski2fast (May 21, 2007)

Hey why do say this is your raft purchase when you have what looks like a very nice sotar for sale here ????


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## BarryDingle (Mar 13, 2008)

Consider an Aire Super Duper Puma. Versatile, Narrow,14fter that maneuvers very well and can hold 4 or 5. Two people can carry or r2 it fairly easily. All Puma's are good...

I agree w love2ski,having to put together a small army to go boating gets old real quick. R2 it or row it


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## love2ski2fast (May 21, 2007)

Hey

Why did you say this your 1st raft purchase when you have a nice sotar for sale here SOAR 12 - Mountain Buzz Gear Swap

honsety is still the best policy


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## GosuPaintballer (Aug 26, 2011)

love2ski2fast said:


> Hey
> 
> Why did you say this your 1st raft purchase when you have a nice sotar for sale here SOAR 12 - Mountain Buzz Gear Swap
> 
> honsety is still the best policy


Because a SOAR is an inflatable canoe which is very much different then a raft!

Little bit of advice for you, Read carefully and be knowledgeable of what you read before calling someone a lier. www.soar1.com


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## matt cook (Dec 15, 2009)

Any 12 or 13 footer would probably suit you well around here, even r/2ing. In the SE it all about what you can find as there aren't as many raft owners and the boats tend to get used hard. That being said I would recommend a puma or superpuma. the puma might be a little more sluggish w/ 5 people but it is the ULTIMATE playboat/surf machine! they are very maneuverable and are a bit narrower than most, making low water floats and creeky type runs easier but they can be a little easier to flip in bigger water. I would check the gearswap at boatertalk.com for used boats closer to you or check out the new place near watershed in asheville, he has a few boats.


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## GosuPaintballer (Aug 26, 2011)

Although from what i've read on the Puma's (they sound nice and bomber proof) but also read they tend to let _crap get inbetween the zippered outside and internal bladders and are a pain to get out and clean? Also have read they are harder to roll and roll bigger then other rafts when they are rolled up? Also, is it true the floors tend to hold water more then other rafts which make them sluggish?_


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## matt cook (Dec 15, 2009)

None of that is really true/an issue. Very fine sand can get between the bladders and shell but that is really only an issue for those floating extremeley silty southwestern rivers, and even then they just need to be cleaned out once every few years. opening them up and cleaning them out is way easier than most people make it out to be, all in all takes 30 minutes. I have done this with at least 4 aires that I have bought and sold, and have never had to do it with one that has been used exclusively in the SE. They fold more than roll, but you can still get them small enough. In fact I have mailed several pumas through UPS as they are just small enough to fit their size/weight limit. as for water in the floor, you are talking maybe 30 or 40 lbs max with a soft floor. If you missed what I said earlier, they are the ultimate playboat raft-VERY maneuverable. If anyone has ever described a puma as sluggish they are full of sh!t!


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## Kendi (May 15, 2009)

FWIW- I have an AIRE 143D (a little bigger than 14 ft long). I store it in a boat bag in my garage. I just used it as a prop in a high school assembly and was able to deflate and roll it by myself in less than 10 min. (and no- I'm not some burly guy). The water in the floor when on the river gets drained out before you drag it too far up the take out ramp. Again- I can pull a 14 ft boat up out at the ramp by myself if I have to so it can drain. A puma would be a piece of cake.


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## gnawdoow (Apr 8, 2005)

really most 12' boats would probably work. I would look at Jack's plastic works at the fat boy or dragon fly. RMR also makes a good raft. in general PVC rafts don't roll up as well as hypalon and area a bit heavier...


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## love2ski2fast (May 21, 2007)

GosuPaintballer said:


> Because a SOAR is an inflatable canoe which is very much different then a raft!
> 
> Little bit of advice for you, Read carefully and be knowledgeable of what you read before calling someone a lier. www.soar1.com


 
Hum....seems I made a mistake on the type of inflatable boat....but I never used the term "lier"

And I still feel that the paddlecat or shredder is the way to go

Scott


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## Brotorboat (Apr 14, 2009)

+1 on either the AIRE Super Puma or Super Duper Puma.

Anyone who complains about the silty zippers is lazy and doesn't clean their boat. Or, their buddies are lazy and don't clean their boats. People talk shit on here like a bad game of telephone. "My buddy who has a buddy (who is a lazy mofo) owns an AIRE and every year his zippers get stuck" If you clean your boat after a milk chocolate trip...your good to go. Aire's are faster to repair on the river and have THE BEST warranty/customer service on the market. Dig around...everyone knows this as fact. As for the sluggish floor, if you don't want it to take on water, get the sealed floor pocket. Problem solved. Questions? Just call them, those guys are the tits!


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## catwoman (Jun 22, 2009)

Big fan of Aire boats. Had a little cataraft, and now have a super duper puma. Hubby and I r2 the SD puma some and have run up to 3+ in it, but not sure how comfortable I'd feel r2ing class v in it, it is kind of big for just two people. If I was you I'd go for a super puma with two thwarts.


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## jrice345 (Jan 11, 2011)

Super puma.


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## spider (Jun 20, 2011)

Check out the Maravia spider. I love mine. Super bomber boat. Can do 3 days on river or fish 3 easy. I've had 5 on mine but it's tight and I was on a lake. I've done class 4s with no problem. I've got pics here and on the Maravia site. It has bigger tubes than a puma and a better floor.


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## pearen (Apr 28, 2007)

+1 for the Maravia Spider. R2 MACHINE! Boofs really well. Ideal rocker for landing off bigger drops. Have done plenty of R2, R3, R4 and R5 up to Class V on all. R5 on things like Gore and Cal Salmon at high flows and was super impressed. Large diameter tubes are great for stability and not wrapping. It does flip if you hit big features sideways due to the narrow width. My biggest complaint is Maravia boats are a little heavy, have a tendency to pinhole, and do not like to roll up.

I even have a little frame for it that takes a 36-38" cooler and drybox. Works great for the wife and I up to a week. 8'3" oars are the money length although that will depend on your frame geometry a bit. Fishes well, but it is no driftboat.


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## fourtyfloater (Aug 26, 2011)

There is a raft on the buzz right there in NC. Don't see a lot of you east coast guys so look at this "Maravia 13 foot Ranger self bailer with NRS fully outfitted fishing frame" for sale right here on the buzz.


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## Dan McCain (Jul 4, 2012)

If you want a smaller boat that will make smaller rapids seem big the Super Puma is a great choice. My buddy has one and he gets five people in it fairly comfortably and we have also r2ed a good amount of class 5 in it. You do give up a little stability on the class 5 though. I have a AIRE 13D series and it is an incredible boat and is highly recommended. We mostly use it for r2in and it has worked great in bigger water like tumwater and NF payette and has got us down many trips on the little white salmon and other small technical creeks. It is very easy to maneuver and handles the big stuff great. If you are gonna spend the money I would definitely get an AIRE boat due to there killer 10 year no fault warranty. They are the only company that will fix the boat no matter what happens no questions asked. I am finishing up a video of our run down Chelan gorge (a cool little gorge with technical class 5 drops) so I will try to post it in a week or so if this would help, as we had my 13D and my buddies Super Puma on the trip. Hope this helps!


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## PhilipT-N-TN (Jul 1, 2012)

I have a NRS Otter 120 SB, and I put a third thwart in it. I'm on the water twice a week with 4-5 people, the boat R2's like a dream. With 6 people you are sitting low. I typically run the New, Nolichucky, Ocoee, French Broad, Dirty Bird, and just got back from Gauley. No problems with stability, except large curl waves. By large I mean 6-10ft (east coast stds). They seem to be the direct result of my flips, but hell I've seen 15ft rafts flip on those large curlers. In hindsight I could have gotten away with a 13ft, but It wouldn't have the same fun factor or R2 as easily. Good luck!!!!


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