# Sea kayak to run Desolation



## mudhut (Aug 3, 2005)

A friend and I want to do a self-support kayak trip through gray and desolation canyon of the Green. We could just take two duckies, but that would be too easy. Is it possible to fit everything for 5-day trip in a sea kayak? I'm sure I will need to pack light, but a groover and fire pan are required. Would I be able to handle the rapids in Late May or Early June? 

I'm a strong class III paddler.

I began to think it might be possible seeing this:
http://liquidlogicpisgah.blogspot.com/2005/12/taking-pisgah-in-rough-water.html

Any recommendations on the types of boats that might work? I'm thinking a 14' foot rec/tour type?


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## alanbol (Jun 3, 2005)

The short answer is yes. 

I've seen plans for a kayak groover that involved 18" of 4" PVC pipe with a screw cap. poop in a paper bag and drop it in. 

deso never gets very hard. As the river comes up, it just gets wider. Never more than class 2 or 2+.

With a boat that big, it should be no trouble to pack. If they insist on a firepan, get a big disposable aluminum roasting pan and fold it up.

cheers,
alan


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## farp (Nov 4, 2003)

Strap the fire pan to the bottom of your boat and tell the rangers it's a self-righting mechanism.

Now that's funny.


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## richp (Feb 27, 2005)

I did Sand Wash to Hite last October, and on the day above the Confluence, we met two folks in sea kayaks who were doing just fine. They had their groover strapped to the top of one of the boats. 

A couple of days later, we encountered a self-supported (typical whitewater) kayak trip that had just run the rapids, including the Big Drops in Cataract Canyon. They had stuff strapped on the decks as well -- pretty sure at least one of them had a large water container on his deck.... 

FWIW

Rich Phillips


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## Southern Skier (Dec 12, 2006)

ExChile does lots of multiday self supported sea kayak trips down class II/III rivers in Southern Chile and Patagonia. Many times the kayaks are fully loaded with all kinds of stuff strapped to the top...

http://www.exchile.com/seakayak.html


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## JayG (Mar 24, 2004)

*Deso Kayak self support*

I have used a Prijon Yukon with small groover in a hatch, or ahead of feet in cockpit. No problem with gear or water. Use MSR 10 liter bags, between legs or behind seat. there are a couple of springs in Deso with some hiking,. A pump or clorox and a laminated map can help to drain water from rock crevice springs. Have done this and supported another Prijon WW boat with stow float in back and sleeping bag in front of bulkhead. We lived high off hog-no crap on deck, its a pain in rapids. There is room for beer & wine if you play it cool. The Yukon will surf waves pretty well for its size. Avoid boats with pillars or bracing between legs. If you have shorted yourself, just pull up to a float-n-bloat trip and beg.


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## peterB (Nov 21, 2003)

Check the requirements. On Catarct they said that you only need a fire pan if you plan on making fires. A couple of good grovver options are a one gallon plasitc jug, or pop bag from restop. Don't run rapids with stuff on the decks. 

Peter


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## peterB (Nov 21, 2003)

The pisgah would rock. Becareful about rudder lines. On Cat I had a boat that filled up just through the rudder lines. Make sure that the kayak has a high deck. hardcore sea kayaks have low decks to limit the effect of cross winds. I found that I could fit more in a T-canyon than a 16 ft sea kayak and the T-canyon surfed better. The Yukon Expedition is great. We had a variety of boats. If you have more than five people you might consider bringing a double for the rescue aspect. We paddled a person out that dislocated her shoulder.

Peter


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## rock_ski_cowboy (Aug 11, 2006)

Just get a sea kayak with compartments that have hatches on them and construct a toilet seat to fit over the hatch and shit in the hatch. 
:lol:


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## mudhut (Aug 3, 2005)

Thanks for all the advice and humor. I'm tempted to try using a compartment for a shit hold, especially if we use rentals, but I don't think two people could shit that much in 6 days. Plus I don't want to be the person to pump out the smelly mess. Seriously, you all have some creative ideas. I'm thinking the jug or pipe idea will work. 

Carrying water sounds like the biggest problem. Are there some good spots to filter or resupply on the river?

I'm going to start looking for some old school whitewater boats or a rental that will work.


Judd


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## johnny portage (Apr 17, 2005)

The shit hatch is brilliant.

You could also clip a poop tube onto the stern security bar / carry handle and let it float down behind you ... I gotta admit, the shit hatch is way better.

On a more serious note, if you're actually thinking of the shit hatch then use bags! That way you don't have to "pump out the smelly mess." Have a fun trip.


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## rock_ski_cowboy (Aug 11, 2006)

mudhut said:


> Carrying water sounds like the biggest problem. Are there some good spots to filter or resupply on the river?


I haven't run that section so I don't know about water for resupply but we've filtered straight out of the sand juan and escsandlante using the following techniques: 

Get water in the evening in a bucket, let it settle all night. Carefully scoop out of the bucket without stirring up the sand on the bottom and pour that through cofee filter(s) into another container. The water should be filterable at that point, but make sure you have a filter you can clean off after every couple liters or so because it will still be a little silty.


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## El Flaco (Nov 5, 2003)

Not sure if the BLM allows it on Deso, but I bought a 4'x4' piece of welding cloth to use as a ground cover for a firepan- you could certainly make a fire on top of that. I got the welding cloth at Raftin Styles in SLC: http://www.raftinstyles.com/ - talk to JJ Suprise and ask him to sell you some welding cloth- he's an interesting cat. 

In the interests of not trying to poop in a 3" diameter tube, could you dumper-down into a wag bag and then stuff it into a pipe contraption? That would be my preference- aiming comfort.


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## richp (Feb 27, 2005)

For short trips, I do my business on a piece of paper towel, pick it up by the edges, and drop it in a one-gallon plastic mayonnaise jar. This fulfils the re-usable, cleanable requirements of most agencies, and it's relatively compact. This paper towel technique also could be used with the PVC pipe groovers described elsewhere, negating the concern about "hitting" the right spot..

FWIW.

Richp


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## Andy H. (Oct 13, 2003)

I'd think a wag bag or Restop for each day would work fine for 2 people and you'll even be legal just tossing them into the dumpster at the end of the trip. I'm not sure how well a fire blanket will hold up if used in lieu of a firepan. 

As for kayak self-support, I remember once meeting a German couple on the White who said they'd taken their old-school Prijons on a 9-day self-support trip, packing it all in and out. They were doing just a few days when we met them and they insisted on packing out the beer cans from the cold ones we shared with them.

Have fun!

--AH


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## asleep.at.the.oars (May 6, 2006)

To filter straight from the main stem, buy some alum. It's available in the spice isle at the super market (it's used for pickling). If you sprinkle just a little into a bucket at night all the sediment will drop by morning. If you're really bored or pressed for time, sprinkle in a little more and you can actually watch the water clear. Something about the slightly basic pH in plateau rivers is really conducive to the sediment flocculation with alum. Don't know why though, I didn't do all that well in chemistry... 

Or stop at Rock Creek for clear water.


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## COUNT (Jul 5, 2005)

a.a.t.o. said:


> If you're really bored or pressed for time, sprinkle in a little more and you can actually watch the water clear.


Somebody didn't have enough beer on his last trip, did he?

COUNT


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## yojimbo (Oct 12, 2003)

The water in Rock Creek is clear and tastes good (filter, of course, and you might want to walk up above the pools where everyone swims). There was a pipe (spring) up behind the buildings at McPherson and we have gotten water at Florence Creek, but the water is pretty alkaline or something and leaves white deposits on your pots.


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## caverdan (Aug 27, 2004)

There is a good spring at the moonshiners cabin at Firewater Canyon. It's on Res. land, river left, about two days down river. I've never had to filter it there. Check with the ranger at the put it to make sure it is OK to stop there. The next place would be Rock Creek, as others have mentioned. 

Just down river of the ranch buildings, check out the the first little side canyon (river right). Up high at the mouth of it, is a small grainery worth viewing. Check out the petrogliph panels up Rock Creek. You can easily spend the whole day there, hiking. Up a few miles on the left are two smiley faces with good color still in them. They are a ways past the first panel you come to. Past the resurgance by about two dry stream crossings up, if I remember right...........I mean left.......they are on the left side, by the mouth of a side canyon. The meadow just above the resurgance is the perfect place to sleep under the cottonwoods. Soft enough I didn't even use a pad.

McPhersons ranch is also on indian land, so once again, check with the ranger at the put it. The spring is up by an old water tank just down river of the buildings. Once again, no filtering needed. The old ranch building behind the run down hotel are really cool to check out. If you hike up that canyon for a mile or so, you come to a big blackish colored rock outcropping in the bottom of the valley. It has a really good petro panel on the back side of it. Further up that canyon are some graineries. Have fun........I can't wait to get back there someday soon.

We showed up once without a fire pan. The ranger sold us one of those aluminum foil, roaster pan ones, like they sell in 7/11.


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## caverdan (Aug 27, 2004)

Here is something I heard about and want to try next time I go. Try and purchase a fishing permit from the Indians. This is the permit you need to get first,in order to get the rest. With that you can apply for a hiking permit, camping permit, fire permit, ect. Then you can camp and hike both sides of the canyon. I heard this from an old rafter I met down in there once, who I'd seen camping on that side of the river. Not sure how true it is, but it might be worth a try.

I've guided on several trips with the high school group call senior seminar. They have had permission in the past to camp river left. Lot's of cool stuff on that side of the river if you have permission to be there. I've heard tale they will come into camp and take your stuff if your on that side without the proper permits.


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