# Gates of Lodore: High water beta



## lodore (Mar 24, 2012)

Try giving the Park a call and see if they know what the dam will be releasing for the Green River when you go. Looks like they're doing "flood" releases right now but they probably won't do that for long. I usually just expect the release to be in the 800 or so range and then I can be surprised if it's bigger. The Yampa peaked yesterday so my guess would be that it'll be down to around 6000 or less by the time you launch so that, plus whatever is being released from the dam, will be your flow through Whirlpool and Split. I'm guessing you'll be looking at slightly higher than normal flows for that time of year but definitely not "high" water. When's your trip?


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## wyosam (May 31, 2006)

Bureau of Reclamation - Upper Colorado Region Water Operations: Current Status: Flaming Gorge Reservoir

You'll have well above the 800 base, looks like they are planning on staying above that all summer. Expect somewhere between 4300 and 8600.


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## goldenshowers (Jun 24, 2013)

wyosam said:


> Bureau of Reclamation - Upper Colorado Region Water Operations: Current Status: Flaming Gorge Reservoir
> 
> You'll have well above the 800 base, looks like they are planning on staying above that all summer. Expect somewhere between 4300 and 8600.


That's really helpful, thanks. Are there any specific features to look out for at those levels? We'll be putting in June 16


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## Paul the Kayaker (Nov 7, 2004)

Good to know as well, we're putting on june 20th. Would love that extra flow out of the Yampa so the bottom section is faster then normal, but not holding our breaths. Although anything more then the 0 CFS bump we got from the yampa last September would be nice.


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## denali1322 (Jun 3, 2013)

Paul the Kayaker said:


> Good to know as well, we're putting on june 20th. Would love that extra flow out of the Yampa so the bottom section is faster then normal, but not holding our breaths. Although anything more then the 0 CFS bump we got from the yampa last September would be nice.


Post some details of your trip and/or I'll try to shoot you a PM after you take out. I put at Gates on july 5. I've only run it once and it was around 800. I'm actually thinking it would be a quite a bit nicer at 3000 or so (much less bony), but I will have some kids (10-14) with me this time so if it's "game on" in certain sections, I'd like to know that heading in.


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## BrianK (Feb 3, 2005)

Paul when we ran Yampa in April we had 6k on Yampa and 850cfs from Lodore - for just under 7k through split mountain. The part below the confluence moves pretty quick at that level. If we are anywhere around that flow, or higher, (which I think we will be) we will be very good to go.


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## unlucky (Sep 2, 2012)

First trip on gates of lodore was 2500 CFS and I thought it was a great trip. My youngest was 5 yrs and she thought it was great! I thought it was a pretty forgiving level. Super stoked for the increased flows this year! Higher water looked like it had some interesting stuff, probably not appropriate for a 5 yr old but I'm not an expert on those flows.


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## lodore (Mar 24, 2012)

Let me know when you get back. I'm not as hopeful for your flows as some others are. Fingers crossed though!!! Have fun!


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## kazak4x4 (May 25, 2009)

The rapids you should pay attention to are:

Triplet rapid: You will have much higher hydraulic and will need to pull away from the boulder on the right. 

Hells Half Mile: Definitely scout it, but should be straight forward run and the rocks below should be under water to make it a safe run. At higher flow the Lucifier should be under water and you can ride over the top. To be safe, skirt Lucifer on the river right side to miss the hole right behind Lucifer.

School Boy and SOB on the Splitmountain will be pushy, so make sure to start pulling away from the walls early enough.

Moonshine hole will be huge (at least was at 16k). If you have big enough boat, it's a fun ride. You can skirt it on the left if you see it early enough and ride the tongue. The big boulder outcropping on the river right is a marker for the hole.

Ingelsby (last rapid on the splitmountain) will be similar to Funnel Falls on WW. Either ride the tongue in the middle or go left for a safe run. I've personally never gone left, already hit the tongue in the middle. If you mess up on the tongue a HUGE hole develops on both sides and you wouldn't want to be there.


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## Paul the Kayaker (Nov 7, 2004)

BrianK said:


> Paul when we ran Yampa in April we had 6k on Yampa and 850cfs from Lodore - for just under 7k through split mountain. The part below the confluence moves pretty quick at that level. If we are anywhere around that flow, or higher, (which I think we will be) we will be very good to go.


Ya Brian I'm hoping for more water. The more the better on the lower section. Last fall we had 800 on the upper and I think 750 on the lower, ya 50cfs was probably flowing back up the yampa, or so it felt. 2 long windy days to split mountain were brutal, and the sand bars in the maze or whatever everyone calls it were rough, luckily for us we had 12 dozen beers so it was ok...

You riding with us out there? I'll have the trailer and room in the SUV for 5. Tight in the back seat, but doable, 3 girls they should be fine. We could also leave a car in Craig at walmart and just squeeze 5 in from there. Pack all the gear in the trailer so we don't have to adjust anything from that point and just split the shuttle costs, not fuel.


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## F.A.A.C. Slim (Jan 14, 2010)

goldenshowers...is it really flowing 176000 below the confluence??? if so I am suddenly very concerned for my daughter who launched at Deerlodge this past Saturday....


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## goldenshowers (Jun 24, 2013)

F.A.A.C. Slim said:


> goldenshowers...is it really flowing 176000 below the confluence??? if so I am suddenly very concerned for my daughter who launched at Deerlodge this past Saturday....


Typo- it's running at 17600 according to AW


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## bob larrabee (Apr 4, 2007)

I am going tomorrow. I have no use full info to add to this post, I just wanted to share my happiness.


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## PBR62 (Feb 17, 2014)

denali1322 said:


> Post some details of your trip and/or I'll try to shoot you a PM after you take out. I put at Gates on july 5. I've only run it once and it was around 800. I'm actually thinking it would be a quite a bit nicer at 3000 or so (much less bony), but I will have some kids (10-14) with me this time so if it's "game on" in certain sections, I'd like to know that heading in.


We launch July 6 at Gates. My first time, but we have seasoned oarsmen on the trip. Seems like "some more" would be preferable to "bony hell". Will be looking at reports up to launch. Woo Pig Sooie!


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## palidog (Apr 28, 2005)

Putting in on Thursday. Really looking forward to this trip.


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## quinoa (Jul 5, 2009)

Steady 9130 cfs release happening now. Should be really exciting!


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## cataraftgirl (Jun 5, 2009)

The big flush from Flaming Gorge Dam started Friday 6/6, and will be at full bypass (8600 cfs or so) for a couple weeks. At least that's the word from the BOR. We're headed to the Gorge for a campout this week, and the fishermen in my group are pretty bummed. They were hoping to walk or float section A and fish. 

All you folks have a great trip on Lodore & stay safe. It should be a hoot.


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## palidog (Apr 28, 2005)

I think I rafted at this level about seven years ago. I remember just fun and splashy. I hope all of our camps aren't underwater. Bugs should be minimal. 


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## goldenshowers (Jun 24, 2013)

bob larrabee said:


> I am going tomorrow. I have no use full info to add to this post, I just wanted to share my happiness.


Got any useful info now after the trip?


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## paulk (Apr 24, 2006)

I would also be curious to know what it's like out there. More specifically whether to bring the long boat to surf glassy waves or a playboat if there are any fun features.


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## Paul the Kayaker (Nov 7, 2004)

Also interested to get any info on camps. Are they under water? Excited about the flows though, love "above recommended" levels!


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## itwco14006 (Jun 5, 2013)

*High water beta*

Ok buzzards, I just came off Lodore. All the camps are fine we stayed at pot 2 rippling brook 2 limestone and the cove.as for the rapids winnies rock was covered. Upper and lower Disaster are now combined into one long rapid it had several large boat eater holes and very large grand canyon style waves and laterals. The water is big and pushy. The landings in camps are pretty tough. Triplet was a hard pull to the left with a large hole at the bottom. Hells had a nice clean line right down the gut through some waves that look like they will crush you. Harp falls was a giant wave train. There was current all the way from put in to take out. We made 15 miles in 3 hours. Whirlpool was cake. Split mountain was easy, very washed out just pushy current. HAVE FUN BE SAFE.

levels i ran were 8900 in lodore. at right about 20k below the confluence.


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## Paul the Kayaker (Nov 7, 2004)

Thanks for the report! Sounds fun, can't wait, launch next Friday.


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## palidog (Apr 28, 2005)

I just got off Lodore as well, and I might add a few things. Harp was huge. Four really fun haystacks that reminded me of Hermit. They got bigger as the wavetrain continued; completely runable. We were moving so fast that we missed the scout for Upper Disaster. Two big diagonals off the left could flip somebody drifting and not teed up. It was fun to see big green tongues of water again. Hells was diddle-diddle.
On a different note....The mosquitos were the worst I have ever endured there. Cove camp was a nightmare. Bring a screen house if you have one. The mosquitos here will laugh at your Skin-So-Soft. They vexed us all the way to Rainbow.


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## pablo1652 (Apr 15, 2013)

*looking for boats or bodies ??*

have 18' cataraft. would love to float more. if you're lookin for rubber or bodies for your permit let me know. not lookin to get paid. pay expenses like everybody else.


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## denali1322 (Jun 3, 2013)

Question on the mosquitos. You mentioned they were bad at cove, but I have heard they are frequently bad at Cove/Big Island/Island park. Did anyone have any issues at Pot Creek, Rippling Brook, or Jones Hole? Those are my sites for an early July launch. 

Hoping the skeeters aren't a huge downer. With the river flow so high, actul time in camp may be much higher than in years past.


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## B4otter (Apr 20, 2009)

We stayed @ Rippling Brook #1 exactly a week ago (6/10) - no bugs. Saw a deer swim from just upstream of our camp to river left bar. Jones Hole #1 next night (6/11) - no bugs. Cove for last night (6/12) place was lousy with skeeters and they were hungry. I finally doped up and let another 20' out of bowline so boat was out in current, but got no peace until I killed maybe 500 or so... Bad all around Island park and all the way to entrance to Split Mtn. None at takeout. But I pity Gray-Des floaters in next few weeks... take bugs nets, DEET, and neutron bomb if you have one...
P.S. We had 9600 at launch and over 20k when Yampa came in. Took less than an hour to float Island Park, still had skeeters on the boat at 9 AM... Rapids in Lodore were GC style, water was big and fast and you needed to make moves WAY earlier than you thought. Flows down now but be safe, discuss rescue scenarios and "what if" BEFORE you need to make decisions.


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## roberts81 (May 18, 2013)

*Sunken Drift Boat*

Did you see a partially (or fully) sunken drift boat at the runout below lower Disaster Falls? It belongs to a family friend of mine who ran it with me two weeks ago when the Green was around 4600. He had flotation compartments in the bow and stern, but after flipping in the big water in Lower Disaster, it wasn't upside-down-floating very well and pinned on a near-surface rock in the class II below and the river flowed over the top. The front of the boat went over the rock and the back caught and the boat settled over the rock, so it was basically upside down with the rock right in the middle of the boat, and was 95% submerged. There wasn't anything we could do with it at that level. At that level, you could have passed it in a raft without noticing it was anything but a rock if you didn't look closely. It seemed like at least one of the compartments hadn't maintained airtightness because it really wasn't floating much before it went down. With the big spike in flows last week I assume the wreck either dislodged and "floated" downstream until the next pin or echo park, or is just totally under water and won't be retrievable until much lower flows. 

It was definitely a tough and expensive learning experience for my friend--that boat was definitely not qualified for a high water Dolores trip. I wouldn't want to be rowing anything less than a Grand Canyon Dory at those levels, as far as hard boats go. We had a big enough group that it didn't totally ruin the trip, the food and critical gear was on rafts. He did lose a pricey boat and a nice partner stove, though (at least for now).


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## palidog (Apr 28, 2005)

It is still pinned where you describe. You could barely make out the hull. 


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## peak (Apr 7, 2006)

i want pics and/or vid of 9k in lodore...surely somebody has...please share


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## B4otter (Apr 20, 2009)

What palidog said... on June 10 at launch ranger told us about pinned drift boat in lower disaster. I never saw it, only some goofy looking water in the runout that could have been caused by pinned upside down boat - or other stuff. Keep us posted on what NPS tells you has to be done to remove the "obstruction" - they surely will...


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## roberts81 (May 18, 2013)

I'm not directly in the loop, he is a friend of my Dad's. But the Ranger at the takeout was sympathetic and kind to him and just said it was his responsibility to get the boat out--to keep in touch with the guide companies to track the status of the boat, and once low water returns, assuming its still there, to get on a permit and go down and take care of it (which he'd want to do anyway).


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## Paul the Kayaker (Nov 7, 2004)

Quick question for those of you that just took off. Leaving tonight and just wondering what the weather has been like and how cold the water is/how wet did you get rowing? Shorts and light shirts on the river or dry tops and neoprene? Thanks, sorry to sound clueless, but Lodore is normally a hot sunny, where's the shade type of trip, high water sounds more exciting though, should we bring river gear?


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## pablo1652 (Apr 15, 2013)

everybody I talked to says they're getting wet.


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## denali1322 (Jun 3, 2013)

pablo1652 said:


> everybody I talked to says they're getting wet.


Was the water cold though? Green in past has been fairly warm (relatively speaking) - much more so than say Ark in June.


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## pablo1652 (Apr 15, 2013)

depends on what you think is cold. high 50's I believe.


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## Paul the Kayaker (Nov 7, 2004)

Thanks, that sounds toasty to me. Normal run off right now is fridged. Bringing some neoprene socks and pants, maybe a splash top, but the dry gear is staying at home.


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## itwco14006 (Jun 5, 2013)

the water was one inch cold two weeks ago.

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## itwco14006 (Jun 5, 2013)

one day I wore full neoprene and splash gear we has a high of 56 degrees

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## blazer (May 7, 2014)

Was on Lodore first week of June at 4600. Was glad to have my neoprene hydroskin pants for one day but generally it was hot enough and the water warm and flat enough that shorts were all I needed. Maybe more water in the boat at 8600 so hydroskin or splash gear might be worn more often. We only had one cold day and it was down at Split Mtn but that was mostly due to overcast skies and rain showers more than the water.


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## goldenshowers (Jun 24, 2013)

Just got done and we camped at Kold, a small beach 2 miles upstream of Jone's Hole, and Jone's Hole #4. Bugs were fine at each but an absolute nightmare through the Island Park flatwater. Water was pretty cold, but fine for a farmer John suit

The dory came out of the undercut in disaster and is now pinned on a rock in the middle of the river in the rapid below lower disaster (I think) upside down. I accidentally boofed it, but it looks like some entrepenuering guides attached a line to the downstream side of it and are trying to yank it loose on subsequent passes.


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## roberts81 (May 18, 2013)

goldenshowers said:


> J
> The dory came out of the undercut in disaster and is now pinned on a rock in the middle of the river in the rapid below lower disaster (I think) upside down. I accidentally boofed it, but it looks like some entrepenuering guides attached a line to the downstream side of it and are trying to yank it loose on subsequent passes.


That's actually where it originally pinned. And I assume the line on the downstream side is just the boat's bow line, worked its way out of its bag. Thanks for the update.


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## asleep.at.the.oars (May 6, 2006)

roberts81 said:


> I'm not directly in the loop, he is a friend of my Dad's. But the Ranger at the takeout was sympathetic and kind to him and just said it was his responsibility to get the boat out--to keep in touch with the guide companies to track the status of the boat, and once low water returns, assuming its still there, to get on a permit and go down and take care of it (which he'd want to do anyway).


I bet that's not the only option. The park brought in a helo to pull a dory off Winnie's a few years back. If I were still working out there I would be angling to take an unsold permit out just for the challenge of the rescue if I could convince the boss to let the boats free.


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## SchubeCM (Jun 23, 2014)

*Lodore*

At lower flows I have always believed Lower Disaster tough. Just need to enter left of center and slowly work to middle through boulder fields. After it narrows, again stay left. Triplet pretty much the same. The early portion before the triplet rocks is toughest. Hells, right of Lucifer and then work the lower boulder field center and back to left. SOB is toughest on lower section. Enter right center and work center. 

Anything over 900 in Lodore makes it much easier. Guided for years with BIG over loaded boats and made it. Anything Yampa puts in after confluence is gravy.


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## denali1322 (Jun 3, 2013)

Paul the Kayaker said:


> Thanks, that sounds toasty to me. Normal run off right now is fridged. Bringing some neoprene socks and pants, maybe a splash top, but the dry gear is staying at home.


Paul, let us know how it went. My group puts in on July 5. I don't have any campsites nearly Island Park (our last campsite is Jones Hole) so I am hoping mosquitos are not bad, but let me know any bug issues as well as whether your decision to leave dry gear at home was appropriate. Will bring wetsuits for kiddos just in case, but wanted to leave them behind for adults and just bring splash gear.

Also curious (anyone comment) why the water is dropping so much last few days. I thought someone in thread was expecting at least 4600 for quite a while. Seems to be dropping every day - hopefully not headed down to that 900 level - which I was hoping to avoid.


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## Osprey (May 26, 2006)

Going down to 1700 avg (1400-2300 flux) the flaming gorge dam ops site always has the latest info.


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## Paul the Kayaker (Nov 7, 2004)

Took off yesterday, the 23rd, the weather was amazing, no need for dry gear. We did get pretty wet but the water is pretty warm in my opinion (compared to colorado creeks right now) and we were dry quick due to the warm sunny weather. Neo maybe for kids, but honestly I was in board shorts and no shirt most of the time.

As for the bugs, none at the put in, we camped at Pot Creek 2, Limestone and Jones Hole 2. Pot creek and Jones hole were fine, I would recommend light bug spray for those areas, Limestone was bad, everyone got eaten up, bring lots of bug spray! And if you're unlucy enough to be camping anywhere past Cove good luck to you. The whole island park float was miserable, cant even imagine what it must have been like to be on land. Passed a group rigging at Cove in the am on our last day and they were in full jackets and pants, some even had nets so it must have been lousy.

Lastly and most importantly, the dory has been dealt with, kinda... We came up on it in disaster still pinned and upsidedown. We righted it and tried to get all the gear out safely. We hoped to tow it down to camp but the situation was a bit sketchy so we got all the gear we could for you including your huge green drybox and took it to Pot Creek 2, where it sits now waiting for your return. We didn't have enough room to take it down stream with us sorry, but anything that was left on the boat is in that box high up on shore at pot creek 2. As for the dory, we had to leave it right side up in disaster, we couldn't tow it out. There are a few dents but overall I think shes fine. The bright side of the story is, that night the flows came up and she floated out and the next morning we saw her right above triplet, must have gotten stuck in an eddy or something, because she didnt go through the rapids, and the commercial trip ahead of us pulled her up onto shore on the river left near triplet campground. There she waits for you. Someone with extra oars may be able to row her out if you can find anyone willing, or if you can get on another trip somehow, you shouldn't have a problem getting it out, even if its just down to echo park. Maybe you can offer a reward to someone launching soon to get her to echo park where you could drive in and pick her up. Good luck.


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## roberts81 (May 18, 2013)

Thanks a ton, Paul! Very kind of you guys to go to all that effort. I've let the Dory owner know, and I imagine he'll be in touch.


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## denali1322 (Jun 3, 2013)

Interesting Pot creek was ok and Limestone wasn't. I don't recall Limestone but is there something unique about that one? I thought they were both in the canyon. We'll plan for misery through Island Park area, but thankfully only on boat.


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## Paul the Kayaker (Nov 7, 2004)

Ya I mean limestone wasn't as bad as any of the island park sites would have been but there were more Mosquitos there for sure then our other two sites. Bearable but you'll want spray for sure. Island park you'll probably just hang out in your tents, bring a screen house if you're camping down there. 


P the K
www.class5carvings.com
www.rontosfolly.com


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## duct tape (Aug 25, 2009)

Dear BLM,

I am the owner (nod nod, wink wink) of all of the stuff currently littering your fine Lodore canyon, including the dory, green dry box, etc. Please PM me for contact info so you can send me a new permit and I'll go down and take it out!!!





Nice work on the recovery Paul. 

- Jon


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## Paul the Kayaker (Nov 7, 2004)

Haha ya me too nod nod wink wink. I'll go back in for a recovery mission if I could get on another permit. And in the end it was only kinda a recovery, everything is still in the canyon so... I wouldn't call it a recovery until it's on a trailer and heading home but at least it out of the water. 


P the K
www.class5carvings.com
www.rontosfolly.com


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## duct tape (Aug 25, 2009)

No bugs on the main Salmon. Nice water level too. Maybe a schedule change is in order.


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## PBR62 (Feb 17, 2014)

We have Limestone and Island Park. Guess we'll deal with whatever there is.


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## PBR62 (Feb 17, 2014)

Paul
How long to float from Kold to Split Mountain?


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## Paul the Kayaker (Nov 7, 2004)

Ya limestone wasn't the end of the world, but I'd say if you can call and change to a jones hole or stateline it would be worth your effort to stay away from Island Park... Or bring a bug bomb and some screen houses. Took us 4 hours from Jones 2 to the take out, with a quick bathroom break at Rainbow.


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## paulk (Apr 24, 2006)

I agree with the other paul. Limestone is manageable. I think if we had been at island we may have packed up and left in the middle of the nigh rather than deal with the bugs


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## denali1322 (Jun 3, 2013)

Just got off Lodore

Put in - mosquitos were bad!
Pot creek & Jones hole - both had some mosquitos, but with bug spray, it was fine.
Island park - did not have a campsite here, but biting flies were on us regularly while on river. Glad didn't camp there


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