# Lost Confidence After Lesson



## hell_on_heels

This is pretty long winded and I sound like a freaking mental case, but if you are able to get through this I hope you can offer some thoughts, advice, etc.

After paddling for 3 months, I have developed some bad habits and felt that they would hinder my progress as I work toward my goal of class III-IV whitewater. Just this weekend my boyfriend and I received instruction from a well regarded kayak instructor to help overcome bad habits and to "relearn" some of the basics. The instructor was fabulous and the day was packed with information, mild scolding and encouragement. However, by the time we moved on from the flat water session to the river session, the weight of my knowledge and skill gap crashed upon me. I sat there in the eddy looking at benign class II shoals (at the most) and was gripped with a level of uncertainty I had never felt before. He sensed this and gently urged me onward as we paddled through some class II+ water for a couple of miles (he totally gave me a chance to bail so this was my choice). During this time, I never felt the elation of being on the water as I usually do. My apprehension never turned into delight even when I did manage to make it through some tougher areas. While I made it down one of the steeper drops, I was flipped by the wave train at the end, tried to roll twice and finally wet exited. I never flip in wave trains! I love wave trains! I turn into a woo hoo girl on wave trains and everyone within hearing distance knows that I freaking love wave trains! I made it through the rest of the run without capsizing as the instructor stayed very close by, but I was very unsteady and was pretty relieved to get off the river even though it meant hiking up a steep rocky hill and running half a mile to get to the car.

With another weekend of paddling coming up, I am experiencing an unsettling lack of confidence. I thought a session with an instructor was supposed to build my confidence. Instead I feel like I just flunked a test. Perhaps my ego that thought he would be impressed with some part of my abilities? Instead to me it feels like everything has to be rebuilt from the ground up. He told me I need to toughen up, but at the same time he told me I was trying too hard to be perfect. I'm quite confused! I know this is a head game and one that I've allowed to have me give up on things in the past. What can I tell myself to move on and accept that I can still have fun without being exceptional at something? Will it just take a few days for everything to sink in? Is this a female thing or do macho dudes also feel this? I bet they don't want to eat a tub of ice cream over it.

If you've made it this far, I thank you for reading. I appreciate any words you can offer to help me get back on track.


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## Kendrick

A lot of would-be kayakers (most I'm told), give it up because they can't get their roll. 

I'll just get this question out of the way, have you seen EJ's Rolling and Bracing DVD?

I ask, because I think I would have possibly given up the sport if it weren't for that. I just started in July, and after that vid, had a pretty decent lake-roll. Prior to that, it was a losing battle, at least by my own standards, in taking the classes. 

With the long summer days, I went to the lake, typically on my own, but not always, after work, and worked on my brace and roll. On the weekends, I'd hit the playparks, and hope that I'd nail a few rolls, but it took awhile. I tried to actually hit some whitewater at least once a week, and for the most part, I did. 

Now, I can say I survived Foxton and Waterton (Class 3+ at this level, I think). I was the least experienced of the group, and flipped a lot, but nailed all my rolls, and didn't swim. Some of it was luck, but a lot of it was just the combat practice up to this point. Prior to this, I had near-swims, on Class 2-3 water. One where I attempted two rolls, and finally went for a third one and got it. At the time, I knew I would've gone for at least a fourth one, because I remembered to take breathes on my attempts. 

Also, it took me about as long to get my combat brace, as it did my roll. I thought I could brace, but until I saw the aforementioned dvd, I didn't realize that I had no idea what a real brace is; despite taking the classes. Sure, you can kind of brace without touching your head to the water, but that's not nearly as effective as real one.

Anyway, it's not you. I think it's the instructor. I don't care how reputable he is. Most people who get typical, professional instruction, give up kayaking. It's just the way it is. The people who can teach you a roll for the first time, in under 15 minutes, will show you the problem isn't you.


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## hell_on_heels

Kendrick said:


> A lot of would-be kayakers (most I'm told), give it up because they can't get their roll.
> 
> I'll just get this question out of the way, have you seen EJ's Rolling and Bracing DVD?
> 
> Anyway, it's not you. I think it's the instructor. I don't care how reputable he is. Most people who get typical, professional instruction, give up kayaking. It's just the way it is. The people who can teach you a roll for the first time, in under 15 minutes, will show you the problem isn't you.



I'm not as discouraged about not consistently getting my roll as just generally feeling that I suck at practically everything involved in kayaking! I only swam twice this summer (before the lesson) so I felt like I must've been doing something right even if my roll wasn't there. Lessons just made me see how incredibly wrong I was to think that maybe I wasn't a total failure at something. 

As for the video, indeed I do have it and its certainly been helpful in the short time I've had it. You know those dive in movies? I want some pool to display that DVD while I practice rolling. My memory just isn't doing a great job of holding in that information by the time I get to roll practice. Ah, the joys of aging.

I really don't think it's the instructor. Not trying to be self centered here, but I know I'm a bit of a mess when it comes to criticism even the constructive kind. You should hear me after performance reviews at work! Hot mess! It's not an instructor's job to do a complete psychologically evaluation before training. And he certainly did take a different approach once he figured out what he was dealing with.


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## glenn

I'm curious to know the specifics of the skills you were working on, that got you so distracted. It might help to know why you flipped or were intimidated.

These might help:

1. Stay loose. I tell myself to stay loose before any rapid I am challenging myself on. It's hard to teach, and sometimes the message gets lost while working on other technique issues. For instance, you caught an upstream edge because you were tight in the hips, but you will get the feedback to edge downstream. The river is more powerful than you by far and you are just along for the ride. So don't try to fight it.

2. Paddle with confidence even when you are scared. Before you paddle into a rapid tell yourself you own it. Paddle in like the best thing that has ever happened to the rapid is your arrival. When your mind is in the state, you sit tall like you should and you take big sexy strokes like you should. This greatly improves how you do in a rapid. The exact how to of shutting out the fear and anxiety and what ifs is the topic of many discussions. I just listened to this one the other day http://traffic.libsyn.com/inbetweenswims/Heather_Final.mp3 . I have a very specific mental process that helps me, but it might not be the same for you. Heather's presentation does a better job of helping you find your own way to get to that mindset.

3. Many women find group dynamics in kayaking to be a stumbling block. There are many classes and camps setups to specifically deal with that. You may want to look into one if paddling with your boyfriend or having a male instructor makes you think less about kayaking and more about anything else.


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## OpusX

It's all in your head. The apprehension will make you paddle like crap, which will make you more apprehensive. I remember going straight from learning to roll in a pond to a class IV run, for my first run. I did fine. I paddled a few more class III's and IV's without incident. Then I flipped in a IV, got beat down, lost my paddle, almost lost my brand new boat. Then I became very apprehensive/nervous to get on moving water, but still attempted several III's. I got my @$$ handed to me on all of them, multiple times. Lost 4 paddles in 3 weeks. I then went down some "boring" class II runs (they weren't boring, I just thought they would be), and for once worked on the basics, learned to roll in moving water, got my confidence back, and was back at class III's and IV's by the end of the season.

Just paddle what you are comfortable with. Flip upside down once in a while in slow current (if you're feeling comfortable doing so), and try to roll. Just have fun with it again.

I still get apprehensive once in a while before a run, even if it's a run I've done 100 times. If it's a dangerous run, I usually sit out that day, or decide to run something else, because if I have that feeling and still paddle that run, it seems like things often get ugly. The worst beatings I've ever taken occurred on days I felt some sort of apprehension or anxiety, and considered not boating that day.

These things come and go for most kayakers...if you stick with it, you will get over this round.


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## Kendi

While I have taken a kayak class years ago, my main thing is rafting. A couple of years ago on the 3rd day of guide training I was ready to give up. I kept hitting rocks- couldn't make the boat go where I wanted etc. I came home crying that night. The next weekend I was apprehensive. Took the green-est of green lines. About mid-way on that 4th day I looked around me and thought- screw it! I'm just gonna do what feels right for me- to hell with how should I hold the damn paddle. If it doesn't work- I'll figure out what does.

Guess what? It did the trick. I started to trust myself again. I came home the next day flyin high and excited to get back on the water.

I still have a lot to learn. I am aware of that. But I look at it now as a challenge as opposed to "I suck- I need to be as good as...." It really is a head game. Before hitting the river I listen to my loud obnoxious music and hit the put-in with the mind set Glenn (above) talks about. It works wonders! Make that river yours!


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## gannon_w

Saying you NEVER flip on wave trains or anything for that matter is not a good mentality. I learned on a class 2+, 3- FP of the Poudre and worked my way up to the gnarrows at low water 4+ when a friend wanted to run FP. I thought I never flipped even when I didn't know how to roll and guess what...screwing around I flipped! Never say never! that's my .02


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## hell_on_heels

gannon_w said:


> Saying you NEVER flip on wave trains or anything for that matter is not a good mentality. I learned on a class 2+, 3- FP of the Poudre and worked my way up to the gnarrows at low water 4+ when a friend wanted to run FP. I thought I never flipped even when I didn't know how to roll and guess what...screwing around I flipped! Never say never! that's my .02


So when you didn't flip, didn't you feel like you must have some innate skill or something? Like some awesome balance or spidey sense for squirrelly water? I didn't think I could never flip on wave trains. It's that I hadn't which gave me a little hope that even someone like me had some small amount of skill (I was that kid who always got picked last for kickball and was always the target in dodgeball). It didn't make me feel like I didn't need to learn how to roll, but it did allow me to keep getting out there on the water while I was still learning to roll (which is still a work in progress for me). That little hope that I was somehow good at even an element of something was what got me through the frustration of watching everyone around me nail their roll while I sat on the sidelines feeling so motion sick that even the sound of water lapping against the pool made me wanna throw up.


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## bobela4

i would like to add 'patience' to the list. the more crap you try to focus on while in the moment the more frustrated you will become. there are about 1 billion and 1 variables in this sport. you will have good days and bad days and your confidence will be shook up. but you can always count on a great story at the end of the day. give yourself some time to develop your skills and have fun with it.


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## chaac

*Eventually, it will click*

It wasn't until I was watching my 6-mo old grandson teach himself how to sit up did I understand why I wasn't consistent in my roll. He laid on the floor and rolled his hips over and kept his head down and up he came effortlessly. "OMG. That's what they've been trying to tell me," I said and with that, eventually came a handroll which saved me a couple of times when the river monster swiped my paddle. However, I still slip back once and a while to braindead, but that's only when my brain zeros in on my paddle's position or something instead of turning off my cognition and just roll intuitively, mostly when changing over to a different boat. Lighten up. Have fun.


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## RandyP

My.02 take it for what it may be worth, this is the most mental sport you will ever do. The best thing you might do is try to hook up with a female instructor if at all possible women just learn different than men. I'm not saying better or worse just different. Maybe you will feel more relaxed in a group of women and let your boat do what it should by relaxing your hips. As soon as you start worrying about being perfect you tense up and you start catching edges because you are so tight in the hips. You are putting to much pressure on yourself to be perfect and not just enjoying your time on the river. Each time you go out only work on one thing that way you don't go on overload working on to many things at once. Remember you are not competeing against the peolple you paddle with. Everyone will learn at a different rate we all have some swim time don't dwell on the things you do bad but take pride in the little things you do right!
RandyP


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## coloclimber512

I agree with Kendi. In this sport as well as many others sometimes you just have to go with what you feel comfortable doing. Sure, there is a right and wrong way to do things. But, if what you do doesn't make you prone to injury why not do it? Lessons are good for having someone close by to assist you learning a technique. They are in my opinion just an informational seminar. Kinda like the ones you attend for work. You take the information in, decide what you need and what you don't, and practice those techniques that work best for you. Come up with your own style and have fun. Learning new techniques and taking them to the river can be frustrating to say the least. Because trying these things can make you capsize, screw up your line, etc. But it you will find out what works for you and what does not. I remember trying to learn different paddle strokes and there would be times that I would capzize or almost capsize myself. It wasn't because I suck or my style was wrong, it was just because I was trying something new and didn't have it down yet.


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## Don

*Easy does it.*

Keep it simple.

Always look where you want to go. And, take the guess work out of it... stay in control by never giving it up. Keep your paddle in the water as much as possible. An active stroke will add another sense to your paddling. You do not have to paddle as much as you think. Let the river do it's thing and you just sit-up and steer. Cool as a pickle.


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## Canada

*I've paddled for 25 years and never had a lesson*

I'm sure someone could tell me about the efficiencies of forward versus back strokes, and 35 different types of roll. I'm sure my Boof sucks and I know my head comes out of the water too soon too often. Point is, I have paddeled all classes of water all over the US and had fun. If you can keep it on line and make a roll, every thing else is just polish for guys trying to go through gates fast. Have fun and keep after it. The guy gave you alot of ideas. Lots of people have screwy golf swings and play good golf.


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## Theophilus

There are lots of ways to paddle a boat. The river is fluid and using a different technique doesn't mean it's "right' or "wrong". We don't all have to paddle the same. For me the the number one rule of kayaking is have fun. Life is too short for much else.I know somebody who has walked a mile in your booties and she'll be sending you a PM. Hang in there.


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## Kendrick

That's good you've got that DVD. 

You don't need to watch it while you're doing the practice. Remember, EJ said our brain only wants to think of about two steps at a time, and so on. 

What I would do, is just watch it again before practice, and find something you need to work on, in it. Maybe you've got your roll down, but need to work on brace. Maybe you've got both of those down, but could work on a sculling brace, or a brace, to flip, to roll without going to home base, etc. 

And what everyone else has been saying is true, I think. I mean, yeah, a sweep stroke is better for turning and maintaining speed, but you're not slalom racing, so I say, if a rudder works for you, do it. Just as an example. 

It's very mental, but it takes some time and commitment to get a consistent combat roll. I can't remember how many times I panicked, even in the playpark, and wet-exited. I still have my work cut out for me too. I could still do with some quicker rolls on the river that I don't go to home base for and stuff like that. It's a continuous progression. 

And I still think it's your instructor who was the problem. You shouldn't leave a lesson feeling like that. If it were properly paced, you would only come away feeling like you succeeded in some form or another. But if all an instructor does is say "No, that's wrong, do it like this..." you're going to come away feeling like your doing everything wrong.

Ps. I just realized I've paddled with like half the people in this thread. I should mention they are all better paddlers than me, so take their advice haha. It's my first season.


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## glenn

BE POSITIVE! If you are coming up to a rapid, great that's why you are there, be excited about it. You flip? No problem it's and opportunity to work on a roll in current. If you swim, awesome, no you can work on self-rescue techniques. All of these are learning tools. If you aren't having fun a looking forward to whats coming up, why are you on the river? 

If you style it, great, but maybe next time you pick a harder line through the rapid!

In the snow world we say if you aren't falling you aren't learning. It can be adapted for the water too. 

Seriously, have fun and make the best out of the situation, no matter what the situation is.


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## caspermike

Any true lesson Will deal with the fundlementals. First day of any lesson in kayak is stroke technique.... or so we are suppose to teach. Stroke technique equals paddle conscious. Which equals confidence.. take what you learned and work in pool or eddies or river...work strokes before you read there for you cam boat what you read which is equal to confidence... technique is key. 
Instead of bragging about bad technique Canada,you should fix if, you know what to fix .. and most of it comes with muscle memory. My wife found it best to paddle with other women to ease stresses.


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## afaust

*Are you having fun?*

I picked paddling up again back in June after almost 10 years. The first (and only) lesson I took was from an individual that probably wasn't qualified. He spent about an hour with me in the pool and then took me down a sharp, bony, and fast class 3 for the next hour. He put me on something over my head not to mention something with far more painful consequences than I should have been on.

After two painfully bloody and bruising swims (literally), I was wondering if I should have picked up paddling again. With my broken confidence I decided that I was going to take it slow and a bit more on my own or with friends. I started hitting the pool and a much more forgiving section of river once a week. I went with friends that took time to help me learn and encouraged me, but did not force me past my skill level.

Now looking back... I got on the water 2-3 times a week all summer. I feel loose and confident in my boat. I push myself more now because I took it slow to build confidence in the beginning. I am paddling more difficult runs and *enjoying myself*.

So my .02, stay loose, take it slow, and enjoy yourself. Paddling is meant to be fun


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## Todd

Lots of info posted already so I'll keep it short. 
1. The fact that you took a lesson shows that you care about improving and I think this creates some level of expectation about your boating skills. Before, it didn't matter too much and you had fun. I agree with an above post, go in small groups or just with your boyfriend on an easy section with the goal of having fun.
2. Yes it sounds like you need to go back to the basics - we all do - and it doesn't matter wether you are paddling class 1 or 5, you are still going to use the same basic strokes and body positions. Start in class one or in a pool and do the strokes correctly and repetively with someone who know the correct skills and hierarchy (there are many good kayakers that don't know how to teach). Don't focus on the wave train, focus on the wave.
3. It is typical that you want to run the river during a lesson but I find it is better to go to particular site on the river which has a little current flowing in the center and two eddies on either side. When you get tired (playing and learning) you stop. This lets _you_ set the expectation, not the length or difficulty of the river.
4.Back to the big picture; the two problems here are the mental game and the skills, right? The good news is that skills can be learned through repetition and muscle memory so focus on your skills (as I stated in #2) and perfect them through repetition on the water that you are comfortable on.
5. Finally, don't rush it, make small advances. Yes, some people can jump in and paddle class 3 on their first outing but seems like you have already tried that. Not to mention that they often never learn the skills correctly.


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## hell_on_heels

caspermike said:


> Any true lesson Will deal with the fundlementals. First day of any lesson in kayak is stroke technique.... or so we are suppose to teach. Stroke technique equals paddle conscious. Which equals confidence.. take what you learned and work in pool or eddies or river...work strokes before you read there for you cam boat what you read which is equal to confidence... technique is key.
> Instead of bragging about bad technique Canada,you should fix if, you know what to fix .. and most of it comes with muscle memory. My wife found it best to paddle with other women to ease stresses.



If you were teaching a couple and it was obvious that one was a little better than the other, do you think suggesting they paddle with other people is going to make the one who is struggling a bit more feel confident? Whether its true or not, do you think saying that to the couple who have only gotten this far because of each other is constructive?

My boyfriend and I have similar goals and the same amount of time to devote to kayaking (ie mostly on weekends because of our jobs and distance to water). We know several people who just can't get out much because their SO isn't into it or they are single. We feel very lucky about this. But we also know that at some point our goals will differ. When that occurs we should be at a level where its easier to find others to paddle with. Right now, for both of us, the thought of paddling separately is unsettling because we just aren't at that class III-IV level that the majority of the people we've met are doing. Getting into kayaking has also been great for our relationship. We are healthier and happier in general. Can you see how suggesting we do it separately might make me feel like a big old loser?


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## caspermike

No but He should be willing to take it slow, but aswell you shouldn't hold him back if he's progressing.. its not a bad thing to find a chick partner and go rally I think it would open your mind allow you to grow your sport as an individual... because it is you in your boat.. I'm sure he'd drive your shuttle, just like skiing.. why take somebody down black of they can't fly... my wife got really frustrated because I already knew how to boat. so she took full advantage of extra hours to have fun and progress before long she was wanting other runs. She did this with other women boaters at the play park. Personally its more sketchy taken a person that's scared down the river. There's good scared and locked up scared and this is the other half of Kayaking, being mentally tough enough to be an individual in the water. So don't get your self in over your head you are not a loser! Everybody learns different, and I'm almost certain, the more fun, the more you Will paddle and the more you will progress.. chicks are rad to boat with. They give me confidence just watching..gets me all fired up. I'm sure the confedence will return.


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## hell_on_heels

caspermike said:


> No but He should be willing to take it slow, but aswell you shouldn't hold him back if he's progressing.. its not a bad thing to find a chick partner and go rally I think it would open your mind allow you to grow your sport as an individual... because it is you in your boat.. I'm sure he'd drive your shuttle, just like skiing.. why take somebody down black of they can't fly... my wife got really frustrated because I already knew how to boat. so she took full advantage of extra hours to have fun and progress before long she was wanting other runs. She did this with other women boaters at the play park. Personally its more sketchy taken a person that's scared down the river. There's good scared and locked up scared and this is the other half of Kayaking, being mentally tough enough to be an individual in the water. So don't get your self in over your head you are not a loser! Everybody learns different, and I'm almost certain, the more fun, the more you Will paddle and the more you will progress.. chicks are rad to boat with. They give me confidence just watching..gets me all fired up..



If I am holding him back, he better effing tell me! Adam, if you are reading this, tell me when that time comes, ok? I most certainly do not want to hold him back. Neither one of us knew much about this when we started, but he does have better physical strength than I do. As far as finding other women to boat with, it's not that easy. All the women I do know are up on Cheoah, Ocoee or Chattooga while I'm still trying to learn the Nantahala like the back of my hand. If anything I know more men to paddle with at my level so I'm not quite sure I understand where gender factors in there.


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## Fallingup

Too funny...that the guys are always ready to jump in with answers!

I boat with my BF too. Our skills are different, not better than the other but each have strengths & weakness's opposite the other.
I boat for me, not for him and he does the same.
I use my fear as my guide, and I seek if for strength. I am a great paddler, but I lack a solid combat roll so I swim a lot!! In eddies, in wave trains, and even in shallow water! I never freak out or let it get me down. Its the nature of the game!
I have moved up to some great rivers this summer and that has been a huge confidence builder for me. But still lack that roll!
Women learn differently than men for sure. 
Dont forget why you are paddling in the first place, most women dont make it as far as you have. Thats why there are less woman paddlers in the first place.
So dont be so hard on yourself. Just the fact that you are out there makes you that much cooler!!
It will all come together for you, just as its susposed to!
check out anna's tips at www.watergirlsatplay.com she has some insight on women and kayaking


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## caspermike

Sorry most of us see it main screen rather than,look through all the forums...


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## hnw2

Heels,

I’m glad you brought this stuff up in a post because many people deal with the same issues while they’re learning to paddle. 
I have to agree with people on the thread who told you to set goals, stay positive, and find some chicks to boat with (might be easier in the South than it has been for me in Colorado). I was on the Gauley last week and was stunned and amazed at all the bad-ass girls rocking the Upper like they were born in a kayak. Fallingup’s post was great, though I personally don’t like the Girlsatplay “its ok to cry and do yoga on the river and lets all talk about our feelings and our periods” crap, but that’s just me, so if it helps, use it! And, its probably good you’re learning at the same time as your BF, because you know what they say, when a guy tries to teach his girl to roll and he tells her to keep her head down, she hears “I don’t love you anymore.” Its cool that you can grow together. 

The big thing for you is to not give up. I’m always trying to push my skills on the river, but I have gone through several stages, sometimes for months, where I was frustrated with slow improvement at a specific level before the practice pays off and I can finally get my boof or a cartwheel. It can take a long time to become a consistent class III or IV paddler with river-reading and self-rescue skills. The best thing to do is work at it: find a pool to roll and flatwater playboat in this winter until you can handroll on and off side. Playboat a ton to build your boat control skills and confidence. Play parks are also a great way to meet new paddling friends. Good luck!


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## hell_on_heels

hnw2 said:


> Heels,
> 
> And, its probably good you’re learning at the same time as your BF, because you know what they say, when a guy tries to teach his girl to roll and he tells her to keep her head down, she hears “I don’t love you anymore.” Its cool that you can grow together.


Due to my intense motion sickness, I'm far behind him with my rolling skills. Since I've discovered the right combination of medication and ginger teas I'm able to practice more so he has been helping me. I have to say it's more frustrating for him than it is for me when I can't roll. I suppose I'm a little different though as when he says to keep my head down or whatever I'm not doing correctly, I usually just curse at him a lot - I definitely do not feel that he doesn't love me anymore. The fact that he's trying to teach me when he is still struggling to have a consistent roll himself makes me know he cares about me even if we do end up cussing each other out.


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## hnw2

It also helps to have a bit of a sense of humor....


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## hell_on_heels

hnw2 said:


> It also helps to have a bit of a sense of humor....



A "bit" is an understatement. If we can't laugh at ourselves then what's the reason to keep on living? Life is too hard to be serious all the freaking time.

In any event, everyone's words here have powered me up! It's good to know that everyone goes through this and that people have found effective ways to move forward and keep on having fun!


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## brenda

Hell on Heels...the motion sickness you get from rolling will gradually decrease. It is just like a figure skater that can spin and spin and never get dizzy. It takes practice. Your body just builds up a resistence to it. When I first started to learn to roll, I would crawl out of my boat on my hands and knees, soooo...dizzy and almost vomit. Now I am fine.
My husband is also a good paddler and when I came to him 3 years ago and said I wanted to try, you can imagine his shock. I was 50 years old then and just had been his shuttle bunny for years. I took my first lesson this year (all women) and it was fabulous. They touched on the emotional side of paddling as well. I will never paddle harder then class 4 but that it OK. When I portage harder stuff, I take pictures of everyone else, so they are still happy to have me around...I THINK!!!


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## hell_on_heels

brenda said:


> Hell on Heels...the motion sickness you get from rolling will gradually decrease. It is just like a figure skater that can spin and spin and never get dizzy. It takes practice. Your body just builds up a resistence to it.



I hope you are right! I have always been a really motion sick person. I still get really car sick even at my age and cannot play first person shooter video games at all! Maybe if I build up a resistance, I can finally join my friends who spend hours playing Call of Duty!


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## chiefton

I'm fairly sure I was your instructor so you've already heard a lot of what I think. Just Kidding. Maybe. Kayaking is like learning anything else; there is absolutely no substitute for time on the water. I have some teaching experience, but more importantly I've been a learner for a while now. In terms of learning these kinesthetic skills that also have a hearty mental side there are a couple of challenges. First, whitewater doesn't really allow you to narrow your focus. Also, there are some real disincentives for poor performance. In the beginning it may be best to stay on a stretch that doesn't challenge you at all. You also may learn from teaching someone who is even more inexperienced than you. Keep the fun, heed the danger, and spend more time in the water. If you really want to improve you will. The learning curve all goes to the same place regardless of how long you spend in it.

Craig


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## SimonMW

I just found this thread after searching to see if motion sickness was brought up by anyone else. I'm a guy who started learning to paddle this year (I couldn't even swim until this year either so a double whammy of mind melt!)

Trouble is that while I have never been sea sick before, while learning to kayak I have been getting pretty bad motion sickness. Especially during rolling sessions. It has taken me most of this year to get my basic roll working, and the sickness has really held me back. As I mentioned, it is made worse by that fact that I never usually get motion sick on boats, which I find really weird.

Most guys I have met never seem to suffer from it or admit it (possibly the latter!)

Hell on Heels, I'd be really interested to find out what worked for you to help calm the sickness. I've tried ginger, which sometimes seems to work, but sometimes not.


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## hell_on_heels

SimonMW said:


> Hell on Heels, I'd be really interested to find out what worked for you to help calm the sickness. I've tried ginger, which sometimes seems to work, but sometimes not.


While I certainly have not completely overcome my motion sickness, there are a few things I've tried which have eased it.

-Ginger gum - for me this was more effective than gnawing on a big stringy root of ginger while paddling and is obviously much easier to carry. It has some large amount of ginger extract which is probably enough to flavor a gingerbread house metropolis. Halfway through the trip I pop a new piece in my mouth.

-Dramamine - I've tried the less drowsy kind which helps a lot, but it stays in your system for 24 hours. It makes me rather depressed or spacey the next day, but may not affect you the same way.

-Still to try - short acting Dramamine - This is the old skool kind your parents gave you to keep you quiet and zonked out for a few hours on a trip. I thought maybe my excitement while paddling would overcome any sleepiness on the trip, but have not been on the river since I acquired it.

-Less caffeine - For me, if my stomach is a little jumpy and I add the excitement of paddling, I can become more easily nauseated. Would love to find out if this is true for other sea sick people.

Acclimation - I haven't noticed it on the river yet, but I have been able to tolerate watching first person shooter games a lot better since I started the sport. They usually make me sick within 5 minutes, but now I can watch them longer. I have to think that one day that will translate into a longer period of time of practicing rolls before I exit the pool for fear of chundering all over and totally disgusting the other people in roll class who probably only come to see newbies like me fail at rolling week after week! 

Please let me know if any of these things work for you. I absolutely understand your frustration because you have the mental will to practice, but your body revolts. It's hard, but try to remember that it's not a race and its supposed to be fun! Just the fact that you have learned to swim AND are kayaking means you are a 1000 times cooler than most people!


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## weldernot

Ear plugs would probably be worth trying. Besides the whole issue of narrowing of the ear canal, some people find water of any temperature running into their ear canals to be disorienting. 

If you find ear plugs helpful but decide you still want to hear stuff, Docs Pro Plugs come in a vented version which allows pretty good hearing but need fitting.


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