# Low Flow Middle Fork



## cosurfgod (Oct 10, 2003)

We have a middle fork trip in August that will have kids.

What is the minimum flow you can take a fully loaded 14' rafts on the middle fork from the top? What should the cut off be to fly in?

Does anyone have a link to the snowpack percentage?

Does anyone have a link for the guage we should be monitoring?

Any other tips are appreciated.

Thank you


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## shappattack (Jul 17, 2008)

What does "fully loaded" mean to you?
Opinions vary
Snow pack percentage is irrelevant, it will be a low flow trip
USGS MF Salmon at Yellowpine https://waterdata.usgs.gov/usa/nwis/uv?13309220
Tips: use google, mass low water discussions beat to death previously
Cancel before March 15 if you have any upfront hesitations


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## fdon (Jul 23, 2008)

Cancel before March 15 if you have any upfront hesitations[/QUOTE]

Hope you have a great adventure but if you think you may not be up for it; What he said.


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## jkisraft (Jun 8, 2009)

Pre March 15 cancel applies if the permit is August 15th or after. Pre August 15 permits are re-issued under standard protocol if cancelled. FWIW


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## cosurfgod (Oct 10, 2003)

Jeez you clowns, we are going no matter what. Just trying to figure out what the cut off is to fly or not. I was thinking around 2.2 was the cut off but thought I would see what people thought that have done it.

As for fully loaded, frames oars and all the gear or light and paddle rafts.


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## shappattack (Jul 17, 2008)

cosurfgod said:


> As for fully loaded, frames oars and all the gear or light and paddle rafts.


Well there is a lot of variation in "fully loaded" with frames/oars and all the gear. And also # of passengers. If you have group gear spread over several boats, don't have a huge cooler in your boat, have 1 passenger and your personal gear for 2 peeps, plus some of the group gear in your boat (medium packing in my parlance), I would go off the top at substantially less than 2.0 feet (did it at 1.5 feet with 1 passenger, red and purple boats below). If you have more than 1 passenger and are hauling mass group gear, then I would say fly in gear to Indian Creek if less than 2.0 feet, but still come off the top with enough light gear to get you to indian (i.e. don' skip coming off the top). In the pic below we came off the top at 1.5 and didn't fly anything in and would do it 100% the same, though we are low water specialists, had group gear spread over several boats and had only 1 passenger in each of the 2 14' boats.


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## Neffs Whitewater Customs (Feb 8, 2018)

What shapp said and let 50% of the air out of your boat. You’ll be fine. 

There is a ton of low water MFS threads.


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## carvedog (May 11, 2005)

I usually end up commenting on these threads....for some reason. 

Your definition of minimum flow and mine may be radically different. I take fully loaded 17 footers off the top at stupid low flow (under 500 cfs). 

Not sure how good of a boater you are or the ages of your kids. It will matter. We have been getting some good snow in the last week or so, but August is always low. How tolerant are your kids to swearing in the raft? Your spouse? Almost any low water trip will cause unwanted cursing to break out at some point.


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## shappattack (Jul 17, 2008)

carvedog said:


> Almost any low water trip will cause unwanted cursing to break out at some point.


All good adventures have a healthy dose of cursing sprinkled in


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## beanack (Jun 20, 2008)

I ran it at 1.75 on a 8/5 launch date. It was bony for sure. We had two people per boat and tried to keep it light. We had 14ers but also a 16'er. We did fly gear into Indian Creek which worked out really well. We also had some beginners that ran the whole thing in duckies. It was very new to me but with the suggestions from others, we did run the boats underinflated. This actually worked well. I have an early August permit this year too. My hope is that it will be over 2.0' for this trip. Fingers crossed.


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## RiverRhino (Aug 19, 2013)

*fully Loaded*

We went down at 1.6 with fully loaded boats (plenty of beer) and 3 per boat. We would kick people out into IK's but the first 25 miles were work and very long days (daze). We did not have kids and at points 3 ppl would have to get out and push.


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## griz (Sep 19, 2005)

Here let's wrap this shit up....

Remember no matter what the year's level, there's a guide out there running a big assed sweep boat down off the top. 

The rest is up to you, your skills and patience. Nobody on this board knows what they are, just you.

"What guage do I look at?"

"Snowpack?"

There is this thing called Google. It works really well. Those guys are rich as fuck because it works so well. Give it a try,dude.


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## zcollier (Jan 1, 2004)

*Middle Fork Flow + Snowpack Info*

Here is a page I put together with the flow and snowpack information I look at for the Middle Fork Middle Fork Salmon River Flow Information Rafting & Kayaking | Whitewater Guidebook


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## Paul the Kayaker (Nov 7, 2004)

ya, go from the top, we did a 1.8 trip from the top I believe, 14ers and 1 16er, loaded, meaning 4million beers, we navigated fine, day one was tough but we're used to low water so any water works.


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## Sturmak (Jul 7, 2012)

Depends on several thing of course, age of the kids, size of the boats, skill of the oarsmen. 
I've taken fully loaded boats with one passenger many times from Boundary. 1.9 or higher is OK. You will hit or stick on a few rocks but you can generally rock or pull the boats off. Below 1.9 we begin to consider flying heavier Items in (big coolers, fire pans, full kitchens, etc) to Indian Creek. Sometime people too. It is possible to deadhead in one day from Boundary to Indian picking up passengers at Indian thus saving expense on flying gear in. I've ran the river at low water a lot, as low as 1.42 with a 15 ft raft and full load. However, now days if it's below 1.7 I always fly a load of the heavy stuff in and take two days with minimal gear rom the top. Consider that the outfitters take 16-18 foot rafts from the top with all the gear and fly the passengers in when it is below 1.8.



Sent from my iPad using Mountain Buzz


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## dirtbagkayaker (Oct 29, 2008)

If the buzz had stickies, MFS ELF hunting and Dutch oven coatings would be 1 and 2. 

(-:


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## Skyman (Jun 26, 2006)

We did it last year at 1.8 from the top. Fully loaded 16er's and a couple of 14's. No issues. We did fly a bunch of beer into Indian Creek though. About 4 coolers worth.


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## syncromike (Jul 27, 2015)

I ran 2016 at 1.5 ft. with plenty of gear and beer and flew extra coolers into Indian. It was my first time. I had a blast and didn't mind the low water. At that flow if you get stuck the first couple of days you can hop out and pull your raft out of most situations no problem.


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