# When you roll - poll



## TimmyHo (Jun 24, 2005)

Learning in the pool I kept my eyes open, as you said to see the actions of the paddle. Now it is all a mental image anyway so I keep my eyes closed. No major reason, that's just the way it is.


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## dvanhouten (Dec 29, 2003)

I wear contacts, and don't want to see those rocks I'm going to hit anyway.


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## cecil (May 30, 2005)

i was never even told to open my eyes when learning how to roll. in fact, i don't think i've ever had my eyes open when rolling, pool or river.


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## COUNT (Jul 5, 2005)

I know that when I practice, my eyes are closed. But in the river, I seem to remember seeing almost everything before I hit it; so, I think I do a little of both.


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## cecil (May 30, 2005)

i was never even told to open my eyes when learning how to roll. in fact, i don't think i've ever had my eyes open when rolling, pool or river.


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## deepsouthpaddler (Apr 14, 2004)

*learn with eyes open, roll with eyes closed*

When learning in calm water or a pool I kept my eyes open to ensure proper paddle placement, to look at the blade to see if it was diving etc. Once that was embedded in my muscle memory I rolled with my eyes closed. On the river, I keep my eyes closed most of the time. Dirt and grains or sand and crap can get in your eye and that really hurts. I have opened my eyes when I haven't just hit the roll right away (stuck in hole, swimming, getting recirced etc). For the basic 1st roll on the river, I would generally keep my eyes closed, but that happens by instinct.


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## brettb (Apr 9, 2005)

open.. when in this predicament I'm usually being thrashed and desire the need to know where the air is!!!! "where am I ? " is why they are open! plus if I get thrashed real hard and my eyes are open my head sometimes comes outta the water and helps me see danger & location in the hole/river! I will also give a quick glance for buddies and take a breath !!!!! ooooh I dont miss this !!!!! Thats the importance in practing bracing in class II & easy , deep, run out III's!! so you only have to roll when taking a beating later on ![/i]


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## gh (Oct 13, 2003)

contacts, no


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## mrekid (May 13, 2004)

Use the force young Skywalker. Sight is for the weak. Feel the rocks and paddle angle about you! I for one have never opened my eyes underwater except while squirtboating, its fun to see the deep dark beneath. I dont see what is wrong with opening your eyes but the question is will your roll be as good if you cant see? If the awnser is yes then you need to learn without your eyes so you are not put at a disadvantage in the event that you cant look at your paddle. Once you learn it is easy to feel. 8)


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## Jaxxon (May 19, 2005)

Sometimes I skull my paddle to determine that my angle is correct. When you have hit about 3000 rolls this will be second nature. Much like breathing. Do not open your eyes!


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## baeloth (Oct 12, 2004)

I keep my eyes closed. When I was learning with a non-indexed straight shaft paddle I used to have to extend my hand out the blade to check the angle. I'm not saying this is a good idea. I agree that rolling with the force is the place to get to but using goggles in a pool or lake is a great way to start the visualization process. You should probably progress through closed eye rolling prior to starting river rolling. my $0.02.

Cheers,


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## dq (Apr 25, 2005)

*eyes shut*

never even thought about opening my eyes!


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## rasdoggy (Jan 31, 2005)

Since I wear goggles when paddling of course the eyes are open so I can see the paddle blade, rocks, fishes, swimmers etc. etc.

And before I get any crap about wearing them I got sick of ruining sunglasses and I practice rolling with my eyes closed too in case they flood which they don't.


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## jmack (Jun 3, 2004)

Jaxxon has it right. skulling and eyes closed is the way to go. nothing you see down there is going to help you and skulling allows you to get up when you roll against the current. goggles and nose plugs are for pussies.

-Josh


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## mike a (Dec 16, 2003)

Depends on how scared I am at the moment...

Eyes open will not help you if you are searching for a roll. You won't find it by looking, only feeling. If you are learning to roll, try feeling if your hands are clear of the water, then try feeling the surface of the water with your blade. If you are paddling hard water, you will be trying to survive at this point and your vision will be second to other senses (esp your ninja survival senses). 

Don't know if I'm at 3000 rolls or not, but once you're good at it you won't notice. I can't remember a single roll this year, not to say I haven't done plenty. When you are getting worked, you won't remember what year it is, much less what side you roll on or other details. Btw, I don't playboat much during creeking season (or not at all), but it is great practice.


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## gregular (Jul 15, 2005)

*Looking actually detracts*

Like a few other posters wrote, using your eyesight actually detracts from using your other senses. For example, trying to roll in the right spot in a wavetrain is something you do purely by feel. If you're looking around, you won't be concentrating on the rise and fall of the boat. Also, if you are up against a wall, I suppose you would see it, but feeling it seems more instinctive to me. When I feel the rub of the boat on rock on the left, I set up on the right. Plus, keeping your eyes closed in a nasty hydraulic could help prevent your eyelids from getting pealed back.

For beginners, looking may help. Once you've got the roll dialed, however, I would recommend keeping your eyes shut.


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## rasdoggy (Jan 31, 2005)

Guess that make me fall in the pussy pile then, So when would you like to go hand feed some sharks ? Or are you to big of a pussy?


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## VT_Eve (Jul 6, 2005)

Most of the "eyes closed" types I meet wear contacts like I do. It is not that I don't want to see what I might hit while upside down, it is that I find it more useful to be able to see when I am right side up to avoid being upside down again!


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## DanOrion (Jun 8, 2004)

Rasdoggy-

I don't believe there's been sharks in these parts for about 68 million years.


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## redbeard (Nov 6, 2003)

I never considered opening my eyes, they burn in regular tap water! :evil: I now prefer the force method. 

of course I must top the charts for water weenies, as I have nearly every orifice covered when boating...  



:lol: :lol: :lol:


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## Loaner (Sep 18, 2004)

*Re: learn with eyes open, roll with eyes closed*



deepsouthpaddler said:


> When learning in calm water or a pool I kept my eyes open to ensure proper paddle placement, to look at the blade to see if it was diving etc. Once that was embedded in my muscle memory I rolled with my eyes closed.


Ditto.


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## prozoned (Jun 17, 2005)

when i first learned in a pond and in a pool i would close my eyes, just to get the feel of it, but on the river i wear goggles and i open my eyes. i dont know why i wear goggles, my friend has contacts so he wears them, so i just started wearing um. 

now that i think about it im not going to wear goggles, because im not a pussy


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## MaineKayaker (Jul 16, 2005)

I used to roll with my eyes closed when I first started boating, but I have found that now I roll with my eyes open. I think for me at least it has to do with how comfortable I am and how well I know the specific river I'm paddling. I generally roll up and immediately look around to get my orientation to see what obstacles are still ahead.


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## rasdoggy (Jan 31, 2005)

I said go as in get on a plane and GO somewhere ....


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## Camiona (Apr 8, 2005)

I roll with my eyes closed and do my roll by feel. It works most of the time... I don't want to get dirt in my eyes and I don't like goggles very much regardless of the sport I'm doing. I open them immediately as soon as I've rolled up.

I do, however have nose and earplugs, so i guess I'm a pussy too  everyobody has their crutches of some sort, my noseplugs are mine! I figure it doesn't matter what our crutches are as long as we're having fun on the river and we're getting better!

Good idea on the poll by the way, I didn't realize how many other people roll with their eyes closed. 

Lauren

ps I'll feed a shark any time as long as it's a little one


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## mlaire (May 16, 2005)

*Rollin'*

I have contacts too - so I thought I'd try the goggles in the pool. I realized, even with the goggles on, I never opened my eyes. It was nice to not be tempted to open my eyes on the river. Just my 2 cents


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## DonWP (Jun 17, 2004)

I keep my eyes open. It's a habit from back when I was a competitive diver in college. I find it helps me see "the light". When upside down and in squirrly water sometimes you are set up to roll on a particular side and that side of the boat is being pulled under by the current which puts your head further away from the surface thus causing a darkening effect. But,as the boat's buoyancy evens out, your head moves closer to the surface and the light from the sky is way more evident, which is a major cue to execute your roll. If you start your roll before the boat evens out you might still make it up but it will be considerably more difficult. Using this technique teaches you patience in rolling, it is not always a good thing to roll immediately. Another situation would be in a series of large waves where I've found the best place to roll is near the crest of a wave, the light from the sky will be brighter, than in the trough or on the upstream side of a wave. 

However, there have been plenty of times when I've rolled without paying attention to whether I can see light through the water. especially when rolling in a hole where the aeration of the water can be quite misleading, in that case I depend on kinesetic senses.

Keeping my eyes open does not help however in placement of my paddle in achieving the correct climbing angle of the blade. That angle is a permanent fixture in my memory achieved through many years of rolling. 
in rivers. 

Don


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## rubberducky (Jun 16, 2005)

I roll w/ eyes open so I can see where I am when I get back upright. With eyes closed, I find that I get that momentary "shit where am I" feeling-- kind of disoriented; seems to take just a second longer to get back into gear.

And yes, I am rolling a ducky.


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