# Awesome Vehicle that can handle the lifestyle?



## bldrmorgan (Apr 23, 2007)

So I'm looking to get rid of my Durango. It's been an awesome vehicle for me except for the whole gas mileage thing. For a broke ass kayaker, it makes a big difference. 

I really liked how much room it had. I could easily sleep in it, load 6 kayaks on top of the raft, throw a couple playboats inside, and basically beat the sh*t out of it. It's held up well to my abuse and fun, but I've just gotta find something with better mileage. Waaaaaaaaaay better mileage.

I'm going to only have 5-6 grand (maybe) to spend so don't tell me about how bad ass your 2010 Tacoma is, i'll just get jealous. I'm going to be traveling a lot next summer and need to line something up sooner than later. 

Thanks for any ideas.


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## GPP33 (May 22, 2004)

Do you have anything more specific than "way better" for MPG? Is 20 good enough, 30?


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## montuckyhuck (Mar 14, 2010)

spend the $$ for a new car on gas... or get a V6 full size pickup with a standard trans. My 2000 Chevy 1500 gets 21 MPG and cost 4g's. it fits 4 creekers in the bed. The bigger the engine the faster it goes but the worse the mileage gets. a standard trans helps if you dont try to drag race. small engine, big truck, nothing automatic.


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## lmyers (Jun 10, 2008)

My last paddling ride was a Jeep Cherokee, it had lots of room and awesome 4-wheel and ground clearance...but I, like you had issues with fuel costs. After looking at many options I went with a Subaru Impreza hatchback. I put a roof rack on it and it will transport 4-5 paddlers and their gear relatively comfortably, plus I get 32 mpg (still have all-wheel-drive, just crappy clearance).


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## Canada (Oct 24, 2006)

*4 runner / outback*

I love my 98 4 runner. 130 K and never a single problem. I have an outback 4 work. I get 25-28 mpg driving from the mountians to the city daily. (up and down a steep hill). I think I may go back to Toyota on the next round. It seems like I am constantly fighting some little thing with this car. Most recently the entire radio/cd went out. I have not had major engine or drive train, but seem to constantly be having little stuff that never happens on the 4 runner. The Sub is great on the highway and really good in snow. Has decent clearance, but isn't a 4 wheeler to go into OBJ. I will be selling the 4 runner in the next year or so as it only has 2 shoulder straps in the back seat and I now have three kids. 

Both cars have ample room for boats, bikes, etc..


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## teletumbler (Jun 2, 2005)

I just got a Pontiac Vibe GT. With a roof rack I easily get 4 boats on the roof, I can fit either my creeker or playboat inside (the front passenger seat folds down flat) and I have yet to get less than 30 mpg even with boats on the roof. The Vibe is the same car as the Toyota Matrix with Pontiac exterior, the engine, transmission and frame are all Toyota. I saw a lot of them with low miles (~50-75k) for under $10k when I was shopping for mine. The GT has quite a bit more power and handles the mountain passes better. I commute a lot for work but needed a vehicle I could play in as well, this was the best option I could find for both.

My .02


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## propanetank (Feb 12, 2010)

I'd go with an older model 4 runner. I bought one a few years back with 110,000 miles for $7K and ran it until I traded it off for my brand new dodge ram at 250,000 miles. I miss my Toy! I'm a big fan of 4 Runners. With a proper roof rack set up they can haul a ton of gear, fit 5 people and gas mileage is in the high 20's if your not a lead foot. The greatest thing is that they last forever and take a solid beating. I'm looking around for another 4 runner that I will dedicate as my river/camping vehicle. If you have time, look out in the midwest on Craigslist, I've seen some smoking deals on them and their not as beat up as the ones you find here in the mountains.


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## possumturd (Jul 13, 2006)

*car*

The Vibe is a good suggestion or the Matrix. I ended up getting a SAAB station wagon which has been a great car. 27 MPG hwy with 2 boats and a mtn bike on top. Turbo charged and will fly over Vail pass in a snow storm. I don't recommend this car unless you are committed to learn how to maintain them. Low ground clearance.

I have a friend who has a Toyota station wagon that we use as a ski car as well. It's down on power but runs like a scalded dog and gets decent MPG.

I would stick with 2 wheel drive unless you just positively must have 4x. Suck it up and manage your recreation needs without it and save yourself money, weight,complexity.


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## nmalozzi (Jun 19, 2007)

i gotta disagree with all the vibe love. my x had one back in college (think it was like a 2002 or so), and all that thing was good for was the mpg. terrible ground clearance, sucked on hills, and once you loaded it down for a weekend in the woods id was slower then molasses in december. not to mention the interior was hideous being that it was a pontiac, and the seats were no more comfortable the the rtd busses. that being said, i know they've gotten better recently, but i still wouldn't go that route if you paid me.

tacoma is my weapon of choice. easily fit 4 boats and people, and the 6cyl has the nuts to stomp the passes even with gear. ground clearance is a non issue, and as long as you don't drive like a dick you'll average about 22mpg.


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## G-man (May 24, 2005)

I have an old suby and love it. I can fit a raft in the back with all my camping gear. you could easily fit 4 boats in there. there is also enough room to sleep if you take everything out. it gets great milage and does great in the snow. we have over 200k on ours and it is still running long road trips. you can pick up old ones cheep. 

thats my vote.


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## gh (Oct 13, 2003)

You guys must have the magic suby's or drive different than me cause I never got what I would call good gas mileage out of them. Had two and you had to be unloaded with the a/c off and on the highway with a tailwind to get over 30mpg.


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## El Flaco (Nov 5, 2003)

If you can find a deal on an older VW TDI (turbo-diesel) wagon, that might fit the bill - if you can accept shitty clearance and no 4WD. The positives are that the wagons will hold a lot of gear, the diesel engine has great torque and acceleration and does fine loaded down. I get 42+mpg with a roof rack and a rocket box. No rack and go light on the accelerator, and I can get 50+ and go over 550 miles on a 12 gallon tank. If you have a short commute, you'll be filling that tank once a month. 

Might be tough to find one at $6K, but diesels will handle high mileage or you might find a dinged one. But it's a great car if you want to lighten your fuel bills; the high-mpg gas cars are generally dogs when you load them down or put boats on them.


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## possumturd (Jul 13, 2006)

El Flaco said:


> If you can find a deal on an older VW TDI (turbo-diesel) wagon, .....................


I was just looking on craiglist at those. Good suggestion. My friend Marc has a TDI sedan and he has had it for a few years and it's still going. It's always jammed full of boating and mnt bike gear.


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## El Flaco (Nov 5, 2003)

Yeah- mine's a sedan. I should have held out for a wagon, but we have a 4 door Nissan pickup and I figured the VW would be strictly a commuter for my heinous commute. But I've been using it for playtime too - I almost made the full round trip from Front Range - Fruita - Front Range on one friggin tank. I will probably upgrade to the new VW SportWagen eventually. Quite a few of the hyper-milers [URL="http://tdi.vw.com/leaderboard/"]on their site [/URL]are averaging 70mpg, with some freaks getting close to 100mpg. Amazing.


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## bldrmorgan (Apr 23, 2007)

My Durango has been getting maybe 12 mpg, so basically anything will be a step up. But with the traveling I may be looking at next summer (making the rounds in CO, NM, AZ, UT, WY, MT, and ID) I need something bullet proof, with good-great gas mileage, and I need storage. A box on top will not suffice. 

I def have been interested in the 4runners as I've barely heard a bad thing about em. But Nissan trucks, or maybe some newer Chevy 6bangers could possibly work as well. I'd just have to throw a camper shell on the back and outfit it that way. 

I've also thought about getting one of the Dodge Cummins Diesel trucks and converting it to veggie oil, just need to pick my friend's brain more about it.

Thanks for all the input, and if someone else has any good suggestions feel free to chime in!


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## Andy H. (Oct 13, 2003)

My 1994 Subaru Legacy Wagon has done a great job getting me and lots of gear around for the last 12 years. I bought it just when it was getting broken in at 72K miles and have put another 200K miles on it since. I haul an aluminum raft trailer and fully loaded have carried 4 people, 2 kayaks, inflated raft, & tons of gear with it on long trips. It'll cruise at about 80 mph on the open road, then climb Vail Pass and to the tunnel at 55 mph in 3rd gear just fine (best power is just above 4K rpm). 

There's talk about wanting to stomp the passes but consider this - if you're patient enough to take an extra minute or two getting up the major passes, you can probably get an extra 6 - 8 mpg everywhere else you go. Or you can tach it out in 3rd, do 70mph up the hills, and get the same mileage as an Escalade up the passes. My Suby gets about 26 mpg normally (with a Thule box on top). This drops to about 20 mpg hauling the raft and gear. About the only time the Suby has had a problem was when I had a relatively light load but was trying to carry two inflated and rigged rafts - the extra wind drag was worse than any load I've ever hauled.


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## Jahve (Oct 31, 2003)

Here is a Russian friend's website and he is just about the only guy I would get a suby from.. SUMMIT AUTO 

They build some sweet suby's even I would drive. They call this one the yurchalka - it has a duramax engine in there - that puts 600hp to the ground and if tuned up could throw 800hp!! 























They aslo can put a tranny that will last in just about any suby that you have. One of these days I would like to have him build me a full on rally suby but that is still a few years out ...


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## yourrealdad (May 25, 2004)

I have to agree with the 4runner. Had a civic and it was great for gas mileage but no off-roading. Didn't get to test my tacoma before totaling it but those seem to be a few grand more than their 4runner counterparts. I have a 1998 4runner with bout 130k on it no problems and get about 20mpg with it. I can load up the rack with bikes and boats and store tons of stuff in the back, carry five people and sleep in the back if need be. I live over in G wood but drive to the Fort all the time and have no problems with the passes. Biggest plus is that it is a toyota.


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## fids11 (Nov 26, 2009)

*Can't believe nobody has put this one out there because it seems this SUV is the state vehicle of CO but you should look at a Nissan Xterra. I've never had a problem with mine, gets decent gas mileage (19-21 mpg) and if you put some good tires on it, it literally goes through anything. Plus, the backseats can be detached and are buoyant so when you drive off a cliff Indiana Jones style you will not drown if you land in a river because you have a built in PFD! My favorite vehicle i've ever owned.... *


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## damax101 (Jul 25, 2006)

I'll second the Nissan. I've got a '98 Pathfinder that runs like a champ; very few problems, 18mpg loaded with 4 boats and 4 people with camping gear. I would have gone with the 4 Runner, but they hold their value really well. The Pathfinder cost me about $2000 less than a comparable (year, mileage, ect..) 4 Runner.


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## lemsip (Sep 11, 2009)

fids11 said:


> *Can't believe nobody has put this one out there because it seems this SUV is the state vehicle of CO but you should look at a Nissan Xterra. Plus, the backseats can be detached *


You do have to be careful not to drive over the seats, because it makes them hard to get back in. The 05 + models are fast and get better gas mileage than the older ones. I usually suffer badly from buyers remorse, but we have had ours for 4 1/2 years and there's still nothing I would prefer for the same money. I do wish the rack wasn't so narrow, but some new bars will fix that.


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## Herm99 (Jun 3, 2010)

All of those older SUV's like 4runners and Nissans won't get much better MPG then your durango did. Another vote for a Suby here. Check out Legacy Wagons, Outbacks, or my personal the Impreza Outback sport. And they also run forever, you change the oil and do the maintenance intervals and you can practically weld the hood shut on these things...awesome cars.


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## JohnnyCash (Mar 14, 2010)

bldrmorgan said:


> I've also thought about getting one of the Dodge Cummins Diesel trucks and converting it to veggie oil, just need to pick my friend's brain more about it.


I would definitely look closer at a Cummins, but don't convert it to veggie oil. You will be happy with it on regular diesel. For your price range look at a 94-98.5 12valve. You will get around 25mpg with a standard (21 auto), the motor will last for 400,000 miles before needing an overhaul, you will have all the power you could ever dream of, and plenty of room to haul all your gear. Plus it's 4 wheel drive and has plenty of clearance. Kinda hard to beat.


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## bldrmorgan (Apr 23, 2007)

The only thing about converting it to the veggie oil is you don't have to deal with the cost of diesel and keep the same gas mileage. I'm still going to take a look at it, but I've heard the same thing about the engines in those Dodge's. Thats the kind of life I'm looking for in the next vehicle.


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## possumturd (Jul 13, 2006)

bldrmorgan said:


> The only thing about converting it to the veggie oil is you don't have to deal with the cost of diesel and keep the same gas mileage. I'm still going to take a look at it, but I've heard the same thing about the engines in those Dodge's. Thats the kind of life I'm looking for in the next vehicle.


Guy down the street had TDI VW bug he had converted. Cool car but it smelled like a bag of old french fries.:-(


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## NathanH. (Mar 17, 2010)

Hyper Mileage... Could take something in the mid to upper 20's and put it in the mid 30's...


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## GPP33 (May 22, 2004)

bldrmorgan said:


> The only thing about converting it to the veggie oil is you don't have to deal with the cost of diesel and keep the same gas mileage. I'm still going to take a look at it, but I've heard the same thing about the engines in those Dodge's. Thats the kind of life I'm looking for in the next vehicle.


The down side though is that you can't just fill it up at the closest fuel station, you'll have a hard time finding bio diesel during your travels. The 12 valves are loud, make sure you drive one before making up your mind. They get better mpg than the later years though.

For 4 runners you'll get 20 out of the 22re but loaded down you'll be longing for more power. The 3.0 V6 will be a little better on power and a little worse on MPG.

Stay away from anything in the mid west, they are cheap because they are rusted out.

Anything with the Jeep 4.0 straight 6 will net you about 15mpg loaded down on the highway, stay away from them.

If you can live without the 4x4 capability look at subi's good cars that always seem to get the job done. I have seen them up trails that no "car" has any right to be on.


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## FatmanZ (Sep 15, 2004)

Check out the Volvo V70 wagon. More interior and cargo room than the Suby or VW. The backseats (split) fold down and can easily be removed for even more cargo room. Skip the Turbo and AWD (CrossCountry/XC) models and you'll get better MPG and less problems in the long run and can still get everywhere the AWD can. The cars are solid (heavy) and drive real nice compared to many of the tin can cars (ie Vibe/Matrix) on the road today - but they still get great MPG even loaded to the gills inside and with boats and a cargo box on top.


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## catwoman (Jun 22, 2009)

Loved my '93 4 runner, it got around 18-20 MPG. My mehcanic loved my $ runner too, and found a buyer for me easily with 293,000 miles on it. Now we have a 4 door Tundra (16-18 mpg) and a prius (45-50 MPG). Prius got us to Red Lodge MT and back for about $60 (and I can cram my raft in there with the frame on the roof rack). Truck carries shit tons of gear, dogs, and people. Best of both worlds, but you won't get there for cheap. Still miss that 4 runner - see it parked around town. If I was on that budget and wanted clearance and to carry friends I'd buy another 4 runner (or maybe a pathfinder). The back seats of those VW Jetta TDI's is tiny (which is how I ended up with a Prius instead). I will say that both the Prius and the Tundra beat the 4-runner over Vail Pass.

Had a Volvo 270 as my first vehicle, twin matress in back. Odometer stopped turning at 310,000 - but she still ran. Sold her to my nephew for $1. Great car.


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## El Flaco (Nov 5, 2003)

bldrmorgan said:


> My Durango has been getting maybe 12 mpg, so basically anything will be a step up. But with the traveling I may be looking at next summer (making the rounds in CO, NM, AZ, UT, WY, MT, and ID) I need something bullet proof, with good-great gas mileage, and I need storage. A box on top will not suffice.


Don't get caught up in the idea that "the life" requires a SUV. I've had both an SUV (Chevy Blazer) and a Subie Outback Wagon, and I honestly think the Subie fit about as much gear. Only difference is that the Subie was much better in the snow and got 30% better gas mileage. Even the clearance issue was minimal for 98% of where I took it. If you're planning on using the vehicle for something like crossing the Slate to do OBJ dozens of times a year, then yeah- get a truck. But if the "good-great" gas mileage thing is important, then don't rule out something like a Subie. If you find a 4 Runner for around $6K, it's gonna have well over 100K mi on it. 

Also- finding a diesel that cheap with reasonable miles on it will be tough. And know that an oil change in a diesel truck is about $100 at Jiffy Lube; which has to be factored into your increased mpg / cost-per-mile calculations.


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## lmaciag (Oct 10, 2003)

My '01 4Runner has done me well. Great as a kayak vehicle (took 4 people and 6 kayaks down to Mexico for 10 days). Not as great as a raft/towing vehicle. Had to incorporate a hitch rack to transport the drybox, cooler and ammo cans. Looks like she is ready to do a wheelie when loaded down. Power lacks when loaded down or towing. I had to replace the transmission in May @ 140k. She has served me well, but will be looking for a new home for her as the raft joins trips frequently. I'm now in the market for a Tundra with a topper. Will have about the same gas mileage, but a V8 and much more cargo room. There was a great thread a while back about Tacoma vs Tundra: http://www.mountainbuzz.com/forums/f11/tacoma-vs-tundra-23031.html


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## al_ferguson01 (Jun 28, 2006)

OK – I have to put a pitch in for the trusty VW Camper Van. I have an ’86 Camper – I put a Suby 2.2L engine because the VW engine is a P.O.S. (plenty of info on the web for this conversion). I can live in my van and carry a sh*tload on top / inside or by pulling a small trailer. With the Suby engine, I get 24-26mpg (not bad for something you can live in  and it can actually haul-a** up the mountains. A VW Camper van can be had for $2k – a really nice one for about $4k and I paid $600 for a 1993 busted-up Suby Legacy for the engine donor. Another approx. $1k for the conversion parts and there you go! Sure, a Tacoma is great but my 2006 Tacoma 4x4, V6 gets 18mpg at best (not driving like a dick) - it's a gas hog!


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## DanOrion (Jun 8, 2004)

Given the amount you're looking to spend $5-6k, I'd recommend reserving $1k-$2k for repairs. My recommendation: If gas mileage is primary concern: Mid 90's Subaru wagon. Just returned from trip to Idaho in a friend's suby with 275k miles and I was impressed with it's hauling capabilities.

If 4x4 is important: Late 80's or early 90's Toy P/U (pre-Taco). Those rigs are well built and will crawl up anything. Mileage will be in low 20's. You should be able to pick up either for about $4k and save the rest of your money for emergency repairs.


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## mtnmorgan (Feb 15, 2009)

My only concerns with a suby or another wagon vehicle is storage room. I'm going to have at least 1 kayak and a bunch of iSUP boards. Most will prob be in boxes and maybe 1 composite board. Not to mention my stuff and a 60 lb black lab/tasmanian devil dog. Possibly a trailer, not sure on that though.

A VW camper with a suby engine could be a possibility (thanks for the idea al, I'll look into that), but I keep leaning towards the Dodge Cummins. With a camper on there I would have ample storage, especially with a built up bed & cabinets underneath. I can do oil changes myself so I'm sure that will cut down a bit of the costs.

Either way, this is all great beta.


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## latenightjoneser (Feb 6, 2004)

International CXT


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## tskoe23 (Jun 19, 2010)

1995 toyota 4runner with a 4cyl and a 5 speed. Goes anywhere and gets between 20 and 25 mpg. Mine only costed $3500. They are a little underpowered on the hills and highways but oh well


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## carvedog (May 11, 2005)

A good old wagon.


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## possumturd (Jul 13, 2006)

*Van*

How about and older Toyota van dressed out.









Or a Westfallia. May be hard to find but these have a v6 and get around 20MPG or mine did anyway.

http://site.backcountryracks.com/Ra...h_Yakima_1A_Raingutter_rack_permanently_1.JPG


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## nmalozzi (Jun 19, 2007)

al_ferguson01 said:


> Sure, a Tacoma is great but my 2006 Tacoma 4x4, V6 gets 18mpg at best (not driving like a dick) - it's a gas hog!


Man, I've heard this from so many people with the newer Tacos. My 97 averages around 22mpg with the big V6 in it. I don't know what Toyota changed in the newer models, but at that MPG you may as well get a Tundra. Bring back the mid 90s mid sizes!


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## TheKid (Aug 25, 2004)

ANYTHING DIESEL!!!!!!!


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## catwoman (Jun 22, 2009)

I knew a guy (RIP) with one those Toyota Vans. It was DECKED for camping -he had put in a foldout kitchen from the back. It followed my 4 runner up some really nasty roads in the Bighorn Mtns. WY. I was super impressed - and a little jealous.


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## possumturd (Jul 13, 2006)

*vehicle*


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## mtnmorgan (Feb 15, 2009)

possumturd, you have way too much time on your hands. but that thing is f'ing amazing. I need what ever that is. it's like a big tram with tracks.


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## Andy H. (Oct 13, 2003)

I want to mount a ski rack on it and head for the hills next winter.


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## shortbus (Jun 22, 2006)

I have had a few Toyota trucks, all very dependable, all easily maintained and rugged, but none of them got better than 21 mpg and you could get out and run faster than they could drive up a mountain pass.

Currently, I have a Ford Ranger, which has a v6 that gets 24 mpg and will go as fast as I want up a hill, (better gearing ratio I think), but I can tell it won't have the lifespan my toyotas had, (230,000 miles and sold them as daily drivers). 

My dad has a ford powerstroke for work and a dodge cummins for play- both are high mile rigs;the cummins gets 26 mpg with a big camper in the bed, however, things you have to consider with a big diesel:
as someone mentioned earlier, 
-oil changes cost $75+
-Tires are 16 inch or larger, (now the same with most vehicles) and usually have to be load range D or E rated- costing $850/ set.
-Diesel engines are heavy and front ends get beaten up by the weight
having said this, there are theories that a bigger engine is more efficient than a vehicle with a slightly undersized powertrain that has to constantly work hard to compensate

If you do choose a diesel truck, look into propane injection over veggie oil, it improves fuel economy by 4-6 mpg.

The vehicle I'm currently examining is an AWD Astro or Safari van- had one as a kid, 26 mpg and built on a truck chasis, so its a little more rugged than a typical mini van and can be lifted if you realyneed the clearance. check out astrosafari.com;
I'm searching for a long wheel based cargo in AWD. check em out


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