# This is why I left the mountains



## rasdoggy (Jan 31, 2005)

At least your not in Boulder


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## badkins (Oct 30, 2003)

Everywhere else in the state hates the front range, the front range hates Boulder LOL


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## dq (Apr 25, 2005)

*mountains*

Union Chutes runs a few times a year and is polluted as hell, A-basin is closer to the mountains than the city and people vacation in the CO mountains from all over the world for the great golf courses, not the front range.

Personally I can't drive down into that brown cloud without starting to hack up a lung and getting itchy eyes. That's why I left!


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## sj (Aug 13, 2004)

Did the same thing 17 years ago. I biked this AM and hope to get to Union later. I always thought the cool guy was from outa state had just moved here and realized that it would be a cool state if not for all those Coloradans. Of course my freinds that stayed in the mountains have their own name for them. The Freshman Class. sj ps just got a call looks like another bike ride at 1 i love spring union tomorrow


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## sj (Aug 13, 2004)

I forgot to add. i hve been the cool guy Breck, lived in Boulder and now live in Highlands Ranch. so I am making fun of me as well as you so no getting pissy cuz it's all in good fun. sj


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## Andy H. (Oct 13, 2003)

Yep, I was that cool guy in Breck way back in the Scrapple days, then getting pulled back into the vortex for a summer here, a winter there, and a year off before grad school. Keeping the connections and a bit of my heart hanging off the Ten Mile Range. Now I'm living the life I used to say I'd never lead, stepping onto a bus with a briefcase in my hand most mornings, and its just fine with me to be down here.

--Andy


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## sj (Aug 13, 2004)

Andy did you get an MBA from CU in the 89 to 91 range? And ski with Edgerly? sj


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## Paul the Kayaker (Nov 7, 2004)

Well mountains in the summer are ok if waking up early to temps in the 30's and haveing to carve the ice off the driver side windows knowing your headed to the river is cool. But the front range is where all the action is in the summer. Warm temps beautiful nights, big lakes to wake board, lots of kayaking, climbing, mountian biking, hiking and just about everything colorado has to offer us outsiders. Plus the clincher is most of that list can be done year round. Ya its sweet to be 10 minutes from the runs, but down here its any season you want all year long. Kayak in the morning, go for a killer bike ride early afternoon, maybe a run or head to the bar for a few beers after lunch and onto the lakes for the night glass behind the boat, we got it all!


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## pbowman (Feb 24, 2004)

this is an interesting topic. wife and i did the FR thing for almost 7 years, and then moved to the small mountain town to "escape and simplify." however, you quickly remember and covet the things you escaped from - convenient shopping, more dining choices, lots of activities, close friends and neighbors, and the list goes on.

at the risk of being further alienated up here, one thing that really bugs us is the lack of community here for folks our age. we are early 30's with no kids, and after being here for over a year we have no close friends. the neighborhood we left in NW denver was very close, and we did frequent dinners, movies, and bbq's with several friends from the neighborhood. nothing like that here though - it seems like no one wants to commit time to friendship because of the transient nature of the community. i also think it is the result of the "cool guy vibe" referenced by howlie, as most younger folks have not come to realize how rewarding and enjoyable it is to have a close group of friends (that are more than bong buddies). maybe i am just the old fart wannabe, since i don't ride the pipe or throw big tricks on southy. i doubt this will be the permanent move we envisioned, and we will probably migrate back to the FR at some point in the future.

and to be sure, mud season is at its peak up here. the local golf course is open in eagle, but you can't get too far off the valley trails without finding some slime. i would say play nine at the canyon course, and then head to union chutes for a surf session after. later.


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## marko (Feb 25, 2004)

Everything has it's pro's and con's.

For example. Front Range is crowded and smoggy. But it has more females and better job opportunities.

Mountains are clean and not as crowded but there is less job opportunities and woman seem to be kind of scarce.

This pro and con could go on forever! But you shouldn't blame a location for your stress or unhappiness. It's not the mountains fault or the front range's fault, it is just a place and people put the label on it.

just my 2 cents


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## Paul the Kayaker (Nov 7, 2004)

Marko hit it true, as much as location matters in happiness and stress levels, where you live is what you make it. The mountains can be great, lots of skiing and cold water, shorter biking and climbing season but still fun. Quiet and calm, yet not much to do or people to meet if your not the type that will go out and find it. FR is crowded but you can finds you pockets of relative peace, and once into the foothills the smog can be seen left behind. Warm weather, more people in less of a transient mode of life and the relaxing sense of choice which is the summer on the front range is what its all about for the people that don't want the mountain life. Plus your not jumping over muddy walkways in the middle of town.


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## mattyb (Oct 31, 2003)

*hmmmm......*

I have nothing bad to say about either location. 

Front Range is comparitively crowded but one gets the benefits that come with that. More people= diversity but it also = traffic and dirt. I miss all my Front Range friends and the social opportunities they helped provide. 
I can still drive down anytime. Plus, i'm sorry folks, Denver really is a big town/small city. Unless you live in the far 'burbs (why?), it doesn't take more than 15 to get anywhere. note: Highlands Ranch is NOT Denver.

We moved ("we" being the operative word- being single in the mts. would blow) into a pretty rare area. There is all the food, culture and art you want in this valley. The price of admission is higher though. Everything costs a little more. It takes committment to make it work. Jobs are tougher to come by in most industries. You either need to come with the gig lined up or be patient and willing to do whatever it takes in between. 

We might end up back down there someday. I won't complain (I don't think). I'll ski a quarter as much, though. 

I know people get down on the Front Range. I think it's b/c they're not totally committed to where they are. That's the only reason people get defensive about anything. They're unsure. 

PS- Denver's air quality IS pretty poor. 

just thinking out loud and really wanted to see my avatar


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## K2boater (Apr 25, 2004)

So to add my 2 cents, I just moved to Boulder (oh, my god) after living in Vail for the past 10 years. It's been a weird transition as I read about this creek running and this wave is up...all I think about is being there.

Then I weigh it out and say oh now you have a paycheck year round and are potentially looking at a better quality of life or am I.

Miss my crew in the Valley
DP


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## Caspian (Oct 14, 2003)

That avatar rules.


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## sgleason (Apr 12, 2005)

*Mountains?*

No offense, but isn't Summit County basically a sub. of Denver these days anyhow? I can't stand being up there to ski or do anything outdoors there...there are nearly as many people on the slopes/trails as there are on the sidewalks downtown. I agree that Breck. is a pretty cool place, but I don't consider it a "true" mountain town.

Just my $0.02...and I'm a FRer...


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## sj (Aug 13, 2004)

I don't know matty. Although i just said i was part of the front range not Denver. It only takes me 20 min off peak to be Downtown and I go about evryother week for various events. And when the new transport is done. I walk 2 blocks to the bus stop short ride to the lite rail into town. I guess i feel i am part of the city. Eventho i ride south for 3 miles and I am in the country saw 4 mulies and a yearling elk on my ride just now. You are correct tho in the size. I go to Boston and Chicago most every year for family and as I tell them. Cow town yeah but coolest cow town in the world. 

And as to why. Commute 7 min to work for my wife in the tech center and Money. it seemed the place to invest in realestate at the time. And my house has appreciated over 150% in the last 10 years. Oh and the school system is one of the best in the west. And it only takes us 1hour and 50 min to get up 285 to out place in Breck no I-70. So lots of reasons but I bet i have a few more kids and about a decade on you so we are diffrent and that is the point of this thread I guess to each his own.

K2boater I never switched freinds or lost freinds when i moved. I boat and ski with the same people I did 20 years ago. Don't give up make it work. sj


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## mattyb (Oct 31, 2003)

*well taken...*

All points well taken, SJ . You got me on the kids (for now). 

I shouldn't talk poorly of anywhere. I'm just really fond of the Wash Park area and everything else feels SO suburban to me. Take that as you will. Your dollar probably gets you 2000 more square feet where you are... I'll try to avoid getting down on anywhere. 

Even Peoria has it's selling points (not comparing the Ranch and Peoria).


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## rasdoggy (Jan 31, 2005)

And livin in the Virgin Islands was great other than the tourists till it got old too....
But with out the tourists I'd have gone hungry...


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## Chief Niwot (Oct 13, 2003)

I chose to set roots in Boulder County just outside of Ned. For me, it is the best of both worlds. 25 minutes above Boulder without all of the associated crime, smog, traffic conjestion, cost of living, tight living conditions, etc. that goes with the city. 

However, I am close enough to Boulder for quality employment and business opportunities, public schools, great restaurants, live music, women (look only as I am married), college, cultural diversity, Whole paycheck (Whole Foods), warm weather, and traditional sports, if your into any of those things.

Ned is 10 minutes to Eldora for area skiing. I know a lot of ski snobs might stick there nose up at El dough dough, but there is very good tree skiing, no lift lines, no traffic hassles, lots of tele skiers, great spring powder, and OB opportunities. 

You also have Indian Peaks for backcountry skiing, backpacking; climbing; and mountain biking. For boating, you have the Front Range creeks, and many of the major rivers (Poudre, Eagle, Ark, Colorado) are 1 1/2 to 2 hours away. 

Boulder County also has lots of open space, progressive planning towards the outdoors, as well as property is a good investment. 

Ned is still funky and down to earth for the most part. It is changing slowly, however, it will never be a tourist destination like the major resort towns and will hopefully never be as developed as Evergreen or Genisee.

The front rangers that are down on Boulder are probably jealous. For a city, Boulder has a lot to offer and is probably out of their price range. It is out of my price range.


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## K2boater (Apr 25, 2004)

SJ, I still am in contact with all, its the jonesing of knowing that I could be dirtbagging it for another summer, everyday if I choose to do it and the thought that I now have become tied to travel only on weekends.

The crew is heading down tonight for some Boulder night-life!!!!!!!


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## Chief Niwot (Oct 13, 2003)

How about Lyons as a Front Range town to live in? Seems like a nice small town with a growing whitewater scene on the St. Vrain. Not to far from the Poudre, and great mountain biking.


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## sj (Aug 13, 2004)

The Wash Park area is imo the best place in the front range. So matty i hear ya. My 6 year old just requested a trip there to roller blade. Were petty much on the same page. enjoy basalt. sj


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## Waterpooch (Mar 15, 2005)

K2boater : I was just askin about you the other day. Did not know know about the big move. When are you going to come up and show us all how to boat?...........By the way you missed missed partyboy break his cherry on the chute. A whole 300 cfs it was funny. Hope to see you up here in the mountains soon to join all of us cool guys throw the vibe when we paddle.

MW


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## El Flaco (Nov 5, 2003)

I live in Denver now and I have grown to like it a lot more than I thought. I moved down from Boulder a year ago because I couldn't afford anything but a tiny condo in that town.

I lived in Durango for almost seven years. I still own a house at the top of Durango Hills on about 5 acres and I can see all the way to New Mexico from my deck. I truly love it down there. 

However, I found that the type of concessions you have to make down there to be able to sustain a good life (career, advancement, and yes, compensation) are tough to swallow. I know a lot of folks that are not using their degrees or have to settle for jobs that pay less than they're worth. 

I'm not saying it's impossible, it's just that the opportunities are fewer and farther between. Some folks make it work, but it isn't easy. Most of my close group of friends from the mid-90's in Durango have left to go to school, moved for better jobs, or left for other opportunities. Some of the folks that are still there have family support, and others have carved out a niche by getting government jobs such as teaching or are content with working construction or service jobs. Not that there's anything the matter with any of those choices. (Mattyb is right, though- being single in the mountains can be feast or famine, and the options are, shall we say, limited.)

As it turns out, the front range is a pretty nice balance between living in the mountains and living in a career-oriented city. I imagine that some of these guys that are enamored with living in the mountains will stick it out, but some of them will "gobacktothefrontrange" and pursue other opportunities while attempting to find that balance between ambition and lifestyle. 

I don't think we should apologize or make excuses for giving up the mountain life for our career choices or otherwise. The fact is, some of the best boaters, climbers, skiers , etc live in the Front Range. I like the fact that I went mountainbiking 10 minutes from my house in February about once a week. I had to drive to Farmington or Moab when I was in Durango- not bad options, though.


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## steven (Apr 2, 2004)

the facts as i see 'em: 1] boulder sucks 2] i don't think kayaking in the polluted s. platte should count as kayaking, it is disgusting. 3] denver living can be a good thing. 4] summit county pretty much sucks as well. in my experience, the quality of life in the SW part of the state is the best for what i am looking for. sort of where the mts. get closer to the desert. [only lacking an urban center like denver within a reasonable drive]


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## esp (Jun 13, 2004)

correct me if im wrong, but i dont think any mountain town has fewer women than bv. the weather here is amazing, and thats why no ski resort will ever spoil the valley with bumper to bumper condos. you can trail run 95% of the year on the hill above the hole. the house im building will be less than 50 yards from three new play features going in in the fall. denver is a cool town and enjoy haning out there frequently, but, if i had to fight rush hour, im sure id end up in jail. money is tight, but it is priceless how many times in january and february i got to say to friends and family while overlooking the town and valley from the midland trails, "can you believe how warm and beautiful this place is?" just a few more women folk, then id be ok.

ed


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## Jahve (Oct 31, 2003)

My 2 cents for those who do not care.

1. All of Summit is part of the Front Range. Yes even Breck.
2. Steven is right the best part of Colorado is the SW part. Far from the Front Range.
3. Every place in Colorado has some positive aspects. Even Trinidad and Greeley.
4. The Front Range sprrrrrrrrrrraaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawwwwwwwwwwwwlllllllllllllsssssss from Ft Collins to Pueblo.
5. The Front Range is the #1 threat to the lifestyle we choose to live up here.
6. The Front Range is the #1 reason a ton of us get to live up here.
7. Not sure what the cool guy attitude is  probably in Summit somewhere. We sure seem to get a lot of the sweet guy attitude when visiting the front range. 
8. The South Platte is closer to the LA River than any I can think of.
9. The import and export of women is mandatory to keep sanity in a BV winter.
10. When the import of women is out of the question or when there are size issues snow machines and online poker can/will replace the fairer sex for much of the winter.
11. Boulder produces the best entertainment that has come out of Colorado is some while. Rumor up here is that Dr. Churchill will be recruiting (little Eichmans) for the CU football team. This will not help CSU will still win the yearly game.

Yep us hicks got mud on our boots from the street and I dont care. I would be willing to bet that most of the people that we share this great community with dont either. Not sure how long it takes to drive to work  never felt the need to measure. Funny the little differences that we Hicks and the Rangers have. 

I hate to brag but you know us hicks  Just curious how many Rangers are leaving work today at 3:30 pm to ride endless POW lines under the sunset. Then a timberline BBQ and more POW lines under the moonlight. I guess there is a reason that we live up here after all. :lol: 

Marco can you hear the bell? It is ringin clear.


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## sj (Aug 13, 2004)

I hate to break it to you RDNK. But i grew up in central ID. I know hicks my prom date for instatce :roll: and you guys in BV are not hicks nor are you cool :shock: . 

The cool guy attitude as i interpret it is. I moved to Salida so that in it's self makes me cooler than you in X. And i live around world class boaters so there fore i boat better than you from X. It's really just being over the top stoked about you new surroundings. It is probably more of a Vail, Aspen and Breck thing. Stevens post displays alittle of that (please don't take offense Steven) in the everywhere but the SW corner sucks.

That the SW corner of the state is by far the coolest part Is I think fact. But after living there you for a while you come to realize that you leave the boasting to the Chamber of Commerce and don't toot your horn about how cool it is. You have enough texans :shock: . I for one will drop a lot of dough in both BV and Durango this year then leave. You should pat me on the back not tell me I suck cuz one of these years the wife will give in and we will move to one or the other places. Just another rich yuppie paying cash for the cool real eastate making it even harder for you to get a fair shake economicaly. And that would truley suck. Again all in good fun sj


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## jonny water (Oct 28, 2003)

Yo sj- I live in Wash Park too....513 S. Penn. Where you at?
My wife and I moved down from Evergreen because her commute was too long. I work in Golden, so 20 minutes out and I can live up in the hills a little ways....we will move out of denver as soon as possible. However, I have grown to like it down in wash park. Friends drop by, food close, music, and yes, it's warm! Plus the housing prices are going up quickly and buying a house is an investment rather than an expense. I have a newborn and if i lived in the mountains, i would have cabin fever. At least I can take my son for a walk year round without worrying about hypothermia. Steven- loved being back to the SW and all the beauty...you live in one of the most beautiful places i have seen. The reason I live in Denver....money to pay the bills, security for the family, and a retirement i can sleep on.


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## sj (Aug 13, 2004)

Jonny I love Wash Park unfortunatley we moved years ago to the Ranch. We come up quite abit tho to the park and the surounding resturants and bars. There seems to be a bunch of us that have made the transition. We should get together for a paddle. sj


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## Caspian (Oct 14, 2003)

Boo-yah!! Front Range Playaz in da house!!!

D-Town ain't holdin' down any of tha Front Range Playaz. Your mine-tailing-leachate-infused rivers can never compare to the mighty South Platte!!! Front Range Playaz know that the only way to roll is with tha funk. Arsenic and cynaide can never compare to fresh dog crap, motor oil and antifreeze!!! Yours truly has shared the eddy with dead animals and put in next to old syringes. We love tha SIKness that is Trestle Wave and Cherry Creek Hole. Come down from your alpine palaces, skip the fresh pow today and get your surf on at Union. Real Front Range Playaz know the killah play that is on the SP and they work it fierce. Did I mention the longest creek season in the state? We keep a steady supply of farmers and ranchers below us to gank y'all's water...yeah, that's right, the suits downtown drain y'all's reservoir for the Front Range Playaz boofin' pleasure in Bailey Canyon. Dayyyyum! Mile-high Gs just sold stole yo water, suckaz!!!!

You ski-one-hundred-and-fifty-days-a-year types should come down the hill and test your constitutional meddle against the hardcore environment of the mile-high. Your thin air doesn't build respiratory toughness like the Brown Cloud we live in. True Front Range Playaz never trip at the sight of dirty water and they bring tha A-Game every time. We know that Confluenza filth and smog create monsta boaters and want to see all tha high altitude boyz and girlz come and join us - tha Front Range Playaz always run tha shit when tha shit is in the river!! Time to relocate!!! Go check out my web site, www.comedowntothefrontrange.com. Later brahs!!!!!

all in good fun...


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## tony (Apr 19, 2004)

this looks like a string for chunderboy! where is he when you need him?


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## Yonder_River (Feb 6, 2004)

Yo Jonny Water,

Were in the same hood, I'm over on Washington/Exposition. We should hook up and paddle sometime soon. 

To add my two cents to this thread, I'll say I was a bit hesitant to move to Denver (I was to cool for school like a lot of kids in Colorado mountain towns) after spending the last five years in Bozeman- but once I settled down here you realize how great of a town it really is. Up there, you could be in the backcountry in 20 minutes- access was great. Here you've gotta be a bit more motivated, but there are so many other opportunities and options. Small towns can be rather stifling at times.


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## Caspian (Oct 14, 2003)

On a serious note, it's cool to hear that so many people like where they live - from some threads here, you'd think that everyone in Denver wishes they were "living the dream" in a mountain town. I'm in Wash Park too, and it's hard to beat for city living. Can't afford to buy here, so it looks like Golden will be the place to settle, and that's not a bad thing either. I telecommute, so I can live anywhere I choose, not just in Colorado, but in the whole country, and I choose Denver (although western NC is a constant temptation). City and mountain each have great things about them, to each his own...


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## sj (Aug 13, 2004)

I agree it's great to see all these happy people. One thing however in this thread that has pissed me off is the slagging on the S. Platte thru denver exspecialy union. It is not a polluted cess pool. it's a great place to recreate with the family. For those that don't know how to get ther. Go west at the porn shop cross the bridge then park down stream of the waste managment facility. peace sj


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## jonny water (Oct 28, 2003)

Hey Caspian-
There is a house right near Penn and Exposition (i think) that is a good price. It's selling for $297K but with a little improvement, I think it could sell for $375K easily. I almost want to sell my house and buy this one. Plus all the new park and rides that will soon pop up along the new light-rail....all the houses right aroound those park and rides are expected to jump 20%. Don't buy in Golden, it's already overpriced and the only advantage to living there is the closer access to the mtns. and the school of mines.[/i]


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## ryguy (Jan 19, 2005)

Jsut moved down from Missoula last fall. Though I miss the boating in MT, it is great to make money here on the FR. I am now a Boulder guy. I was totally freaked out the first time I paddled Confluence, but after seeing how good the play was, I will be back. The alberton gorge in MT is a great play run, pretty and scenic. But down river from one of the largest superfund sites in the country. At least the shit in Confluence can be killed with a few prescriptions. (I hope!!) That shit on the gorge might come back to kill us later in life. Well, I guess we'll all float-on untill then. Cheers, I love the mountains, and I also love the entertainment the FR has to offer. I am glad to see this thread has not gone sour yet!


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## mattyb (Oct 31, 2003)

Caspian- out of curiousity... What do you do that you can telecommute?


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## Caspian (Oct 14, 2003)

I'm an attorney, inside counsel. I do mostly franchise, intellectual property and corporate law. The work is such that I can often structure the day to take a few hours to boat or bike, then work over lunch, dinner, in the evening, etc. It's a great gig, but I do miss seeing people. I'm a total extrovert, so working with people across the country on e-mail and the phone all day is not socially optimal. Still can't complain.


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## The Guest (Apr 20, 2005)

Are you guys for REAL?

Quit lying to yourselves, the Front Lame is Gay

See you guys on the interstate!!

The MASSES are ASSES


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## El Flaco (Nov 5, 2003)

Good point - Now get back to bussing my table. :lol:


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## chili (Apr 22, 2005)

Yo guest.. the front lame IS gay but don't blow our secret, they'll all move up..now, could bring the check?


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## Andy H. (Oct 13, 2003)

Wow, sounds like that cool guy brought the attitude down to the city and is coming down with a case of affluenza to boot! The pathetic flame up there didn't even warrant response, much less one that snubs all our good brothers and sisters whose jobs put them on the butt end of the power dynamic. They get enough of that kind of crap from obnoxious tourists and don't need it from us down here. 

We're damned lucky to have all the options to choose from and that we get to make our own choices and tradeoffs here.

SYOTR,

--Andy


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## chili (Apr 22, 2005)

hey.. just a little good natured humor. I guess i should've put a :wink: on the end of my post. lots of great things about the FR.. lots about the mt's too and I've lived in both places and brought my share of checks.. mr guest is the cool guy..


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## rasdoggy (Jan 31, 2005)

When I lived at the beach it was cooler than the mountains now that I'm livin in Colorado again its better than the beach and its wayyyyy better than when I lived in Kansas City or Texas. All I know is that the people that don't play outside are the ones that are missing the point. It does'nt matter where you live its how you act. 
Proud to be 303!!!


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## 217 (Oct 27, 2003)

yeah I'll trade....SoCal sucks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!(the girls are hot though and slutty....whoohoo) no skiing and little kayaking what more could you not ask for. No wonder everyone from cali (and texas) moves to CO. Oh wait the job market sucks and once owens cuts off all funding for public schools its going to be a fun place to get robbed. on the bright side he isnt as dumb as the governator just much much more evil!!!
:evil: 
-aaron


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## Electric-Mayhem (Jan 19, 2004)

I must say that all this talk of bad air in the front range seems a bit off to me. I know it looks bad, but its waaay better now then it was 15 years ago. I grew up in Vail and remember coming into denver and seeing a nasty big ole dark brown cloud hanging over the city every time. Its more of a wispy white smog cloud now, and while its definetly not the clear air of the mountains, its not that bad. Most other large cities are far worse. There are crappy days when the wind blows it up onto the mountains but hey.

As for which is better, its a toss up really. I have experienced both places. I have lived in Boulder for the last 5 years, and have spent plenty of time at my moms in Vail over that time too. I will say that I am through with Boulder, as its changed alot for the worse since I moved here originally (or I have changed for the better/different). The crappyness at CU is also reflecting itself in the general community, as its turning into too much of a yuppy town for people who think they are liberal and hippies (but really aren't in any way). Just to show, despite asking plenty, I haven't gone on a single date with someone who lives in Boulder in five years of living here. This is despite that fact that there are more girls then guys in the age group between 20-25 (I'm currently 24). Not sure about elsewhere, but Vail has its problems too. My chances for love aren't any better there as the ratio sucks, its expensive, harder to find work, and everything is far away (hence more gas used, which is a double hit because of the significantly higher gas prices in the mountains compared to FR). I have been working some up there at one of the shops, and it is amazing to me that almost every woman who comes in has a Boyfriend or is married.

I will say that after experiencing boating in both places, that I would choose the mountains over the city most days. Yes there is quite a bit of good stuff in the foothills (Bailey, Clear Creek, Saint Vrain, Poudre, hell even the Urban boating can be good if you can deal) but they tend to be a long drive. Vail has just as good of stuff around as the front range, but its closer in general.

However, there is one clencher that seals the deal for me. If you are a skier that likes to go more then once a month, living in the mountains is the only way to go. I grew up in a house that was a 15-20 minute bus ride to the base of Vail, as such was rather spoiled in that respect. Moving to Boulder ruined skiing for me (I will say I was getting a bit burnt out on it anyway). Sitting in 4 hours of stop and go traffic to go to a crowded mountain is not my idea of a good time. If you can make it on the weekdays its better, but still not really worth the drive unless you can stay for more then a day. Other then that, I often find myself wishing I was in the opposite place. In the end, I think I would choose the front range, as it has most of what I want and need. More to do, stuff is closer, more choice, and it just takes a bit more effort to find the cool people. The skiing thing is over for me anyway for now. I haven't skiied in over a year and don't regret it a bit. Ok, end of rant.

JH


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## El Flaco (Nov 5, 2003)

Andy- No disrespect intended towards waitstaff- I waited tables & worked kitchens for years. "Guest" seems to be a teenage boy incapable of adult conversation (as in this post) - a lot of high-schoolers start out filling water glasses. Just an assumption based on his engaging observation...


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