# cliff jumping WW



## peteg (Apr 14, 2004)

Ran Westwater canyon this last weekend and just wanted to remind those that enjoy the fine art of cliff jumping should think a bit about what you can't see. 
Stopped river right - right above the cowboy shelter at the start of the canyon and jumped off the higher wall after about 6-8 drunken kids just jumped at the same locale. Maybe 25-35'. Leapt and felt I had good clearance with standard jumping form. Almost immediately after entering the water (maybe 6-10' down) and still with considerable velocity hit a rock. Fortunately it seemed to be a downward slanted smoothed rock ledge since the impact only deflected my descent and the entire impact was on my right ass - missing tailbone, spine, legs and other more critical areas. A few inches in the wrong direction would mean a canyon exit by means other than boat and I wouldn't be typing this while standing at my keyboard.
I try to practice minimizing risk by improving skill - but here you are subjecting yourself to almost uncontrolled random risk taking (i.e. unknown subsurface conditions) that isn't nearly as exciting as chosing and running a clean line. My mistake and just an FYI.

-pg


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## GoodTimes (Mar 9, 2006)

A VERY good reminder! I know I've been guilty of rarely thinking about my LZ....."looks deep enough to me". I know there are some pretty good ones below the canyon proper....but I've never jumped above.

Thanks for reminding me to check more thoroughly.....since I'll be there in a few weeks.


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## Randaddy (Jun 8, 2007)

A guide from West Virginia is now paralyzed from the neck down because of a cliff jump on the Colorado. I'm hesitant to jump at all anymore, especially into muddy water.


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## Theophilus (Mar 11, 2008)

Randaddy said:


> A guide from West Virginia is now paralyzed from the neck down because of a cliff jump on the Colorado. I'm hesitant to jump at all anymore, especially into muddy water.


I watched a friend of mine when we were teens dive from a railroad bridge into a river in Oregon and he broke his neck when he hit bottom. It was at a place where we had jumped/dove from many other times.

I think about it when jump/dive now and I do my own check before I just blindly launch or take anothers word for it.


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## jbarnow (Sep 10, 2007)

Rules to Cliff Jumping

1. ALWAYS check the landing...this includes after watching many other kids jump. In rivers this can be and generally is more dangerous. If you need to dive down two or three times to thoroughly check do it.

2. Never enter head first

3. Never jump over 20-25ft with a life vest on

4. Right after impact immediately tuck to stop downward travel


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## GoodTimes (Mar 9, 2006)

jbarnow said:


> Rules to Cliff Jumping
> 
> 
> 3. Never jump over 20-25ft with a life vest on
> ...


I'm glad pg posted on this....and I'll certainly keep it in mind before I think about taking flight. I grew up launching off 40-50-60 footers on a regular basis at the pueblo reservoir and ALWAYS checked the LZ....AND had someone with a depth finder check the entire area. The past few years I haven't been as diligent. Duly noted and I'll be more mindful.

Jbar....just wondering why a jump over 25ft. would dismiss a life vest? I hucked myself off a (roughly) 50footer in Gunny Gorge a couple weeks ago with mine on....I don't think I'd ever jump without one....just gotta tighten er' up. And my preferred method of entering the water is to "fan and flatten out". Saved me a few times at the res. in shallow LZ's. Maybe it's because I have a couple extra LB's, but balling up would take me a little deeper as opposed to how I get er' done now.


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## jbarnow (Sep 10, 2007)

The life vest advice might be a little short. I watched some kids jump off a cliff when I was about 13. I asked them repeated why they were wearing their vests and they said that was the only way their parents would let them. I told them not to do it and then watched them huck a few seconds later I heard the screaming. Both had double dislocated their shoulders. I guess I look at it as if I'm going to jump I'm going to do it where the water is definitely deep enough. I'm not as concerned about drowning as the effects of the impact. More resistance equals harder on the body. On the other hand there is an argument for wearing but after watching those kids I'll play my luck without.

As for balling...bad explanation for fanning and flattening...just get to rolling started so your not going straight down.

Just uploaded some good jump pics...not sure how to insert in the forum.


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## Ture (Apr 12, 2004)

I would never jump off of a cliff into water. I used to do it (on the upper Colorado and a few times on Westwater) but never again.

I have never been hurt cliff jumping but I have broken my neck and now that I know what that is like I can say, without a doubt, 100% sure that there is no way that the thrill of jumping off a cliff is worth the risk.


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## basil (Nov 20, 2005)

Cliff jumping is one of the most dangerous things you can do on the river. Lot's of really serious injuries. 

As for the life vest, if it's tight, I'm not sure you are better with it off.


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## richp (Feb 27, 2005)

Hi,

Back when I was young and foolish, I did some 40-50 footers with my PFD on. 

The trick is to snug it up tight and grab tight onto the neckline with both hands, to keep it from coming up around your head and trying to rip your arms out of the socket.

But that was only in areas where the bottom profile was an absolute certainty. 

I've seen folks jumping off the black rocks in WW near Miner's Cabin -- something I never would do without a lot of careful exploration. They also jump off the river left rock down at "the kink" just above Big Horn camp. Higher probability of deep water there, but you still gotta be careful....

FWIW.

Rich Phillips
gulchradio.com


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## kevintee (May 7, 2007)

I've only jumped the cliff right next to the Hotsprings in the Pumphouse section of the Colorado and then the smaller one on river right a couple hundred yards down. On both of those it's pretty much 'shoot for the current' and you're alright. 

As far as the PFD goes, that increased 'resistance' also slows your vertical descent once you hit the water and if you've got it snug and hold on to the neck line I think it helps. I always wear one when I jump, not that I have lots of experience but its something.


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## mjpowhound (May 5, 2006)

Also, take your helmet off. I made that mistake from a good height one time.


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## SSOWDEN (Apr 29, 2004)

I am holding off on the advice until I hear from Grif, I am sure he has it dialed in.



mjpowhound said:


> Also, take your helmet off. I made that mistake from a good height one time.


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## yetigonecrazy (May 23, 2005)

so my buddy jess is NOT displaying good form here?


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## peteg (Apr 14, 2004)

Its the stopping where form becomes important.
I personally like to hold on to my pfd neckline but having arms out probably helps make corrections if any unwanted rotation was induced at take off. I really don't want to beat a dead horse when it comes to form but I do want to know exactly how to "flatten" to avoid deep descents.


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## jbarnow (Sep 10, 2007)

Put your hands out and cup your hands while bending your body a little the second you enter the water. You want to redirect the force horizontally so as to go as shallow as possible while disspating speed.

Can anyone tell me how to post a picture in the forum...can't find photo id #????


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## SSOWDEN (Apr 29, 2004)

if you want to be ahead of the game, the preffered method would be technical move called the belly flop, no deep descents there.
Of course if you are not into the pain thing there are other options.
String a cargo net between two rafts just below the surface attached with bungy cords, see how high you can rebound. The normal signal that all is ready is jump chump.
We are having a pool session later this fall to work on technic.




peteg said:


> Its the stopping where form becomes important.
> I personally like to hold on to my pfd neckline but having arms out probably helps make corrections if any unwanted rotation was induced at take off. I really don't want to beat a dead horse when it comes to form but I do want to know exactly how to "flatten" to avoid deep descents.


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## Grif (May 21, 2008)

SSOWDEN said:


> I am holding off on the advice until I hear from Grif, I am sure he has it dialed in.


Y'all are crazy. The only jumpin' I do is into the mud hole at the family reunion every year!


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## caspermike (Mar 9, 2007)

GRIF i didn't know we are related to durango steve


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## Dave Frank (Oct 14, 2003)

I've certainly made some jumps that were less than prudent, both in terms of overall ht (85') as well as poor landing choices. While I've never personally been hurt doing it, I have seen enough accidents to be pretty leery of the idea. 
I know of spinal as well as tailbone injuries from what looked like clean entries from less than 30'. I also know of a shoulder dislocation that was less than 20'.

The deceleration idea is sound, but putting the brakes on too early can dislocate shoulders.

Raising your leg angle just after entry can change your trajectory out instead of down, but it also get your medulla exposed. Personally I hit with arms down along my sides, wait a minute then let the arms out, with cupped hands. I enter with fairly straight legs and shoed feet. I keep my legs ready to take the hit that hopefully never comes. As a kid I landed a twenty foot rope swing into about 4 feet of water. Pretty dumb, but landing on feet and absorbing with the knees made it a successful landing.

ALWAYS PROBE. That super deep canyon landing might have a downed tree from the last storm.

On a more positive note, the cliffs opposite upper little d have some clean 50' lines.


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## jbarnow (Sep 10, 2007)

Pumphouse
Boulder Canyon
Lodore
Westwater


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## Randaddy (Jun 8, 2007)

We had this guy that came on the New and the Gauley every year just for the cliff jump. He didn't really like the rafting. He went by "Flop" and was famoud for doing ridiculous belly flops from outrageous heights. Flop is also always drunk. I can still hear the loud slap of skin hitting water....


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## UserName (Sep 7, 2007)

YewHooo!!!


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## ENDOMADNESS (Jun 21, 2005)

Yeti- does your buddy have a turkey leg in his hand or just yeti like arms??

Username- what kind of cliff in WW is that...its looks like mid river, cool photo


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## SSOWDEN (Apr 29, 2004)

ENDOMADNESS said:


> Yeti- does your buddy have a turkey leg in his hand or just yeti like arms??
> HEHE-didn't notice those turkey leg like arms.
> 
> Username- what kind of cliff in WW is that...its looks like mid river, cool photo


I think that is a rare photo of boofington with cloths on off the ten meter platform just upriver of echo park on the Yampa.


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## cayo 2 (Apr 20, 2007)

HOLY SHIT!Those are some impressive pics especially that back flip.JB is that Boulder Canyon one the one across from the falls and up 200 yds.?We used to fire up that one into a little pool right in the gnar section ,people dammed it up .You can swim your head behind the curtain of the pourover ,there is an air pocket ,and freak out your friends if you can stand the cold.You can get pretty high but have to jump way out, the pool is tiny and has a ledge/ underwater that will rape your shins if you jump to far.Youve got a 15' or 25/30 ftr. This dude Dennis went way the hell up 65'?He nailed the pool but you could hear his head hit rock bottom ,he came up all bloody but wouldn't let any one drive him to Boulder ,just sat there drinking beer. 

I jump about like Dave,not 85' maybe 50',go deep after scoping it out first.There is a beach a little above Little D on the other side, called Little Hole ,there are some good jumps there off vishnu schist,I think i did maybe 35'r,a good 15 ish rock ,maybe some higher ones.

'The Thumb' right at the Deckers chute used to be real popular 15' + but the cops hassle you.Lots of river booty at the bottom of that jump the commercials do in Browns,knives,jewelry,watches,.etc.


Dove off a pier in Florida apx. 8ft. into about 2-3 feet of water and Fred Flintstoned myself into a concrete bridge piling was a total stiff neck for about a week,lucky I 'm not paralyzed.Had been jumping off a little further out all day ,went for one last jump and wasn't far enough out got careless.


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## jbarnow (Sep 10, 2007)

That's the spot. I always thought the best cop get away possible would be jumping in and hiding in the air pocket...yet to have that situation arise. I've busted over a dozen gainers into that little pool but all the photographers won't share. Those bastards. 

I've heard of Dennis and another idiot that have jumped from the pinnacle. There is no amount of money in the world you could pay me to do that. I didn't even believe it for about ten years it seemed so suicidal...of course this kid went up there when my best friend was up there to prove how big his balls were. Was about a millimeter from hitting his head on the rock next to the chute...came up whiter than white nothing to say. I think he realized that was it and somehow escaped certain death. 

My biggest cliff (the same one described in the double shoulder dislocation and reason why I will never jump with a vest) was 85ft. I wore my tennis shoes and the force of impact sheared the soles of my shoes off. I'm done with big jumps...anything over 50' just isn't fun...it's painful.


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## RCarl (Jun 8, 2004)

I did the cliif jump at the hot springs at the pumphouse run a week and a half ago and bruised my tailbone. It still hurts. I am not sure exactly how I did it but I think I landed with my legs somewhat in a cannonball position. I have never bruised my tailbone jumping before but I guess it is something that can and does happen.

RC


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## kevintee (May 7, 2007)

RCarl said:


> I did the cliif jump at the hot springs at the pumphouse run a week and a half ago and bruised my tailbone. It still hurts. I am not sure exactly how I did it but I think I landed with my legs somewhat in a cannonball position. I have never bruised my tailbone jumping before but I guess it is something that can and does happen.
> 
> RC


 
I jump that every time I go down there at least 3 or 4 times and most of the time i come away with a sore ass, I just don't have the technique. Anyways, anyone know how high that is? I had a thread about it but no one really had a good idea. It's the pic with the gainer in it, top left of the four a little further up the thread.


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## UserName (Sep 7, 2007)

Then you jump first.
No, I said.
What’s the matter with you?
I can’t swim.
Are you crazy? The fall will probably kill you.
...Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid


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## jbarnow (Sep 10, 2007)

everyone that looks at the picture immediately thinks 60...the kids jumping the day I did that were even trying to say they thought is was 60. There is no way. Being a rock climber and life long cliff jumper I am pretty sure (that day) it was about 40-45ft. I didn't measure it with a tape or anything but I think that depending on the flow it will range in the high 30's to low 40's. 

I think that cannonballing should generally stop where a perserver starts to be an issue. Much more than a 20ft cannonball is probably going to hurt you. 

As for technique on cliff jumping there's really only one thing to accomplish. Upon entry be as aerodynamic as possible. Point your toes, get your arms in close, maybe even give the jewels a hand shake for protection. Look down right as your starting to enter then look forward. If you worried about depth then curve your body as you enter to get the force moving anyway but straight down. I've bruise my hands and arms from keeping them out thinking it would help with shallow water landings...bad idea. 

If you're not planning on doing a flip or dive then generally the best way to accomplish this is either a running start and then windmilling your arms and legs. The windmilling creates a gyro effect and helps to keep you from drifting from side to side or forward or backward. Looking at the landing is also helpful in making a nice straight entry. Lastly the water surface will also effect the impact. Glassy water is much harder to penetrate than choppy water because of the philosphy of water being harder than concrete. When you hit the dense perfectly flat water it needs to disburse to let you enter. Glassy water is actually harder than choppy water so when you hit it, it hurts less from high spots. Rivers are generally better than lakes but if your jumping into glass on a lake have a buddy create some turbulance in the water and it should help.


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## raftus (Jul 20, 2005)

You also get softer landings if you can jump into aerated water at the bottom of a rapid or a waterfall.


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## yetigonecrazy (May 23, 2005)

raftus said:


> You also get softer landings if you can jump into aerated water at the bottom of a rapid or a waterfall.


case in point: upper devils punchbowl


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## kevintee (May 7, 2007)

raftus said:


> You also get softer landings if you can jump into aerated water at the bottom of a rapid or a waterfall.


 
'Softer' also means you're decelerating slower, so if you're unsure of the depth this may be something to avoid.


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## Tiggy (May 17, 2004)

The rock that looks good to go for a seal slide has a little lip that bumps your boat up for a flat landing, ouch....watch it before the rapids or every little wave will hurt the next 15 miles.


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## blutzski (Mar 31, 2004)

Ah, the big dilema as I get older. I love cliff jumping but above a certain height, it's just not worth it on my back anymore. I've never gotten hurt except for some ass bruises, but I can tell it does a number on my spine. I usually only go big in lakes where I can see 15-20 feet down. I only jump in rivers anymore at known cliff jumping spots. I jumped off the south canyon bridge once and just brushed a rock under the muddy water. That was stupid. 

Has anyone noticed the higher you jump the less deep you go once you hit? Above 80 feet is seems like the turbulence when you hit is so great you just maytag in the upper 5-10 feet of water. 

I never jump with a life vest but have comtemplated it after hearing about my brother-in-law getting knocked unconsious jumping from a 60 feet bridge. Rather than looking staight ahead when he hit he kept looking down and took the impact on his face. There are also the posters at Lake Powell stating that it is now illegal to jump and showing photos of a guy getting knocked unconsious. They found his body a hundred feet down. I don't know how much of a risk it is getting knocked unconcious if you have proper form, but then again it's when things go wrong that you need the backup protection.


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## Phillips (Feb 19, 2004)

SSOWDEN said:


> I think that is a rare photo of boofington with cloths on off the ten meter platform just upriver of echo park on the Yampa.


Holy moly Sawden! What the hell is up?

Kent


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