# Greatest Place on Earth



## GratefulOne (Jun 12, 2010)

another way to put it.... Where is the best Class III+ day trips in the country?!?!


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## glenn (May 13, 2009)

West Virginia is cheap and has a lot of rafting potential including the difficulty you are talking about.


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## dirtbagkayaker (Oct 29, 2008)

GratefulOne said:


> So all the PNW vs Colorado shit talking !


 I hope everyone was having good natured fun with the PNW vs Colorado 

Because everyone in the know - knows Brazil is were its at!


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## Salidaboater (Nov 5, 2013)

Salida. But keep it quiet


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## denali1322 (Jun 3, 2013)

Entire world? Not sure I can accurately comment on that. 

In Colorado, I gotta go with BV/Salida. Both are way cheaper than ski towns and you've got miles and miles of II through IV rapids on Ark - and a paddling seasons that is almost always at least 3 months long for rafts and longer for kayakers. BV has slightly better views, but Salida has more amenities and proximity to Monarch if you do like to ski. Trails, 14ers, good restaurants, etc. Oh, and as you age, they are a reasonable drive to front range and high quality medical care. Oh and did I mention you can get to front range not via I-70? Also, doesn't snow near as much in these towns as in, say, Winter Park or Avon. I could go on and on.


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## glenn (May 13, 2009)

Salida may be cheap compared to carbondale but it's not cheap.


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## Salidaboater (Nov 5, 2013)

denali1322 said:


> Entire world? Not sure I can accurately comment on that.
> 
> In Colorado, I gotta go with BV/Salida. Both are way cheaper than ski towns and you've got miles and miles of II through IV rapids on Ark - and a paddling seasons that is almost always at least 3 months long for rafts and longer for kayakers. BV has slightly better views, but Salida has more amenities and proximity to Monarch if you do like to ski. Trails, 14ers, good restaurants, etc. Oh, and as you age, they are a reasonable drive to front range and high quality medical care. Oh and did I mention you can get to front range not via I-70? Also, doesn't snow near as much in these towns as in, say, Winter Park or Avon. I could go on and on.


Shhhhhh


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## denali1322 (Jun 3, 2013)

glenn said:


> West Virginia is cheap and has a lot of rafting potential including the difficulty you are talking about.


Don't you have to be married to a relative to live in West Virginia? 

I'm just kidding! I have friends in West Virginia - it's a fine place, just not Colorado.


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## carvedog (May 11, 2005)

GratefulOne said:


> So all the PNW vs Colorado shit talking on the lost gear thread has got me thinking.... Where is the greatest place on Earth?!?! Of course I know this is very subjective question. But I am wanting to hear your top 3 or just number 1 places to live in the US. I all ready live in a pretty phenomenal place. So the specific criteria I am looking to address in a new potential home would be the following:
> 
> 1) Relatively Low Cost of Living ( compared to Aspen/Carbondale where im at now)
> 2) Local Access to class 3 and 4 rafting ( have paddled plenty of class 5, but as im looking to find my dream place to settle down, iconic class 3 is more appealing then hairy class 5.)
> ...



Idaho sucks! It's full of weird, racist assholes and stuff. Stay away.


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## glenn (May 13, 2009)

denali1322 said:


> Don't you have to be married to a relative to live in West Virginia?
> 
> I'm just kidding! I have friends in West Virginia - it's a fine place, just not Colorado.


OP asked about cheap and access to III-IV. WV hits the nail on the head, CO doesn't. Add in culture, weather, skiing, legal weed, shit talking internet message boards etc and you start to bring the equation back to CO.

Edit: Actually I just reread the first post and a lot of that shit is in there. Stay in CO. If I went back I would be looking at Durango.


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## GratefulOne (Jun 12, 2010)

hahaha! yes I have been to and paddled in WV! ( New and Gauley) I love it. but don't think I could move there from Carbondale, CO. It is a valid point though. Cost of living is much less! Thanks for all the input yall! And I am stoked that BV/Salida are only 1.5 hours from my current locale! Just ran Browns during paddlefest and cant wait to get back over there~!


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## d.e. (Apr 5, 2005)

Durango sucks.Trust me


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## Burl Haggard (May 8, 2014)

I'd have no problem ditching the every day grind and going back to Costa Rica. Loved it there.


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## GratefulOne (Jun 12, 2010)

Durango and the animas are on my radar, so hopefully ill be finding out soon just how shitty it is there! lol


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## GratefulOne (Jun 12, 2010)

costa rica sounds phenominal. but I guess my post was misleading because realistically I am looking for lower 48. and im looking for the name of towns or cities that I can look up and do my own research. whats your favorite boating towns?!?!


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## lmyers (Jun 10, 2008)

Why do people keep bringing up Salida? He said BV, there is a difference.... The good boating is 5-10 minutes outside BV, its 45 minutes from Salida... ;-) 

Cost of living is reasonable in BV, ease in finding work is not. Rent probably averages $850 month for a house. I really, really enjoy visiting other rivers and states, but I am always happy and satisfied to come back here. I climb summits and rock, backcountry ski, mountain bike and hike, and get after it more than most, but I am still finding new adventures within 30 miles of my house and I have lived here 7 years.

Its probably not the best place in the world to vacation, but I think its a pretty good place to live.

Oh, and I can't say enough good things about the community. Small, close knit, like minded....just plain good people.


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## glenn (May 13, 2009)

lmyers said:


> Why do people keep bringing up Salida?


If I was going to live in the Ark Valley I think Salida would be the spot. More of a town, good commuter bike culture, warmer, closer to the ski hill, closer to the gorge, play park isn't as good but it still has one. It's not like you can't get after work runs in both locations either. From a pure paddling perspective BV wins for sure but looking at overall lifestyle I think I would lean towards Salida. Both are cool spots and if you are thinking about one you should check out both.


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## JustinJam (Mar 18, 2009)

*idaho?*

I would love to hear more from buzzards about the idaho options? I live near colorado springs but would love to move closer to family in portland. Is there any liveable towns that has a hood river vibe to it?


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## k2andcannoli (Feb 28, 2012)

Ohiopyle, PA (If you can stand to live in a commonwealth state)

Friendsville/ Deep Creek, MD

Morgantown, WV

There are creeks everywhere, big rivers (Cheat, Potomac, Yough)....and best of all it actually rains!

All three towns are 30-45 mins from each other. Three ski areas in an hour radius, mtn biking, a local community (you know people who were actually born and raised locally), REAL bluegrass (CO feels phony), smoke can be found for 2 bills a lid (Thanks CO), and houses are cheap (25000-50000, for a starter house.


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## jmack (Jun 3, 2004)

Honestly, Durango is not that great for a Class III paddler. We have the Town run, then the next steps up are the Piedra and Upper A, and it only gets harder from there. If you are not interested in at least remote Class IV, there isn't much to do here.


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## dirtbagkayaker (Oct 29, 2008)

JustinJam said:


> I would love to hear more from buzzards about the idaho options? I live near colorado springs but would love to move closer to family in portland. Is there any liveable towns that has a hood river vibe to it?


 Each place has it own vibe. Hood river has a real cool kayaker friendly vibe for sure. Idaho really doesn't have anything like that. The closest would be the Payette drainage and Boise area. Idaho is spread out too. Its real easy to go find a run that nobody has been on for days. There are still tons of runs that get boated once every couple years. There are more out of state boats than local so ya might go somewhere and it has a Colorado vib one week and the very next its loaded with a group from Tenn and has totally different feel. But mostly its very quiet, natural, and raw. :wink:


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## Idahomewater8 (Mar 20, 2014)

carvedog said:


> Idaho sucks! It's full of weird, racist assholes and stuff. Stay away.






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## Idahomewater8 (Mar 20, 2014)

Idahomewater8 said:


> Sent from my iPhone using Mountain Buzz



Absolutely with out a doubt, Chile is the greatest place on earth to live and boat. Yeah and Idaho sucks, nobody go there, gun toting ********, non PBR drinking Mormons, and staunch republicans everywhere. Definitely don't go to Idaho. 


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## BarryDingle (Mar 13, 2008)

Idaho is closed on Sundays. For The Lord.


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## 2kanzam (Aug 1, 2012)

WV, it gets alot of flak but everytime some one puts it down it just tells me they haven't been here. I tend to take it upon myself to be an unofficial ambassador to those who are ignorant to our little piece of paradise.

1) Crazy low cost of living....its just crazy. Friends of mine that moved away just cannot believe how little I paid for my 2500 SF house, in the capitol city, in one of the more desireable neighborhoods and best school system. $150k is typical here, but in some areas $75k can buy you a nice place. Many of them are coming back now too...and saying they just didn't know how good they had it here until they moved away (to find "better pay" somewhere else)

2) Quite literally more whitewater than you could run in a lifetime. I have over 300 ww runs mapped out mostly concentrated in the eastern half of the state. 128 of those are class III. There are 110 WW runs within 2 hours of me in Charleston. If one were to live in a more centrally located place you could have virtually all the whitewater within 2 hours of you. Fayettville is a cool little town with all the amenities and the New an Gauley nearby. But other (smaller) towns like Rainelle, Webster Springs, Elkins, Slaty Fork provide good nearby access to lots of runs and areas. Plus we always have water...even during the driest of times.

3) Since most people think WV is a shiathole, tourism is very sparse and spotty.

4) WV is a beautiful place, especially in the fall and spring. It is also an outdoorsman's paradise. Great Mountain biking, hiking, hunting, camping, floating, good climbing, a few places to ski (not West coast quality tho). Community is great here...music?...it's part of our culture. There are tons of little small town festivals year round.

If you like fishing, it is hard to beat WV with it's abundance of water. Some of the best Smallmouth fishing in the US, one of the best east coast states overall for wild and native trout especially if you consider geographic stream density. Unfortunately that is kept under wraps as WV places more importance on not getting in the way of the extractive industries than it does Trout tourism. Probably top 10 states for Musky and unbelievable amounts of water that holds every other species of warmwater fish you could think of. We often joke that if there is water, there's something to catch in it. The walleye fishing is starting to get really good as well. 

We have hot summers, cold winters and everything in between weatherwise...I enjoy the seasonality.

I would say enjoying the outdoors is key to enjoying your stay here. We lack some things like GOOD BEER/BREWERIES unfortunately...like literally only 4or 5 ok breweries. That is probably my biggest gripe personally. There are good restaraunts but not like alot of places, but that just motivates me to be a better cook. Not to mention that the ample hunting allows me to keep alot of meat in the freezer and the foraging is spectacular in the spring and summer.

Obviously I love it here and it fits in with my priorities: Rivers, mountains, forest and seasons. If a place does not have those in abundance, I want no part of it.

I travel alot for work (and liesure) and have to say Colorado is the only place I've been to where I actually found myself thining "I could live here if I had to". I particularly enjoyed Buena Vista and thought it's small town feel and water availability would be a good fit for me. I also think I could make it work in Idaho.


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## dirtbagkayaker (Oct 29, 2008)

Idahomewater8 said:


> Yeah and Idaho sucks, nobody go there, gun toting ********, non PBR drinking Mormons, and staunch republicans everywhere. Definitely don't go to Idaho.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Mountain Buzz


 Yep! in reality this is true! I have a gun, vote republican, think dope smokers should go to jail, drink PBR and check out fat Mormon chicks, and most of the buzzards think I'm an dumb asshole. That's pretty much Idaho!


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## elkhaven (Sep 11, 2013)

*"El Dorado"*



GratefulOne said:


> 1) Relatively Low Cost of Living ( compared to Aspen/Carbondale where im at now)
> 2) Local Access to class 3 and 4 rafting ( have paddled plenty of class 5, but as im looking to find my dream place to settle down, iconic class 3 is more appealing then hairy class 5.)
> 
> 3) Relatively Low traffic and tourism cluster fucks
> 4) all the other obvious stuff ie. scenery, activities, community, music, beer, etc.


I know this is not what your asking for, but in general #2 + #4 = tourism, tourism causes #3 and #3 drives #1 up. Especially when rich people want a cabin in El Dorado. The last effect to all of this is to drive pay down, so if you will be needing to find local employment you'll be doubly screwed. 

If this phenomina had a name and was in the Dictionary; Bozeman and more aptly Big Sky Montana would be the picture in the Dictionary. To make maters worse once you find El Dorado, rest assured that other people will find it too and then in 10 years you'll be searching for the next city of gold. I'm sorry I'm being such a pesimist but I settled on Bozeman after a very similar search to yours, just 2 decades earlier. Now I hate going any where near town, long to make more $ so I can work less and play more give the family all the shit they want and live the fairy tale life. The rivers, ski hill, mountains, trails, etc. are all crowded...and it's always been a tourist nightmare. 

I've come to grips with my situation and realize that I'm as happy here as I would be anywhere else, because it's all trade-offs. If I lived where I could make more money, I'd have less time and more people to deal with while playing, worse traffic, bla bla blah.

So what I always think about is rural... Find that area you like that has it all and then live just outside it, near one of the features you like most so that can be your go to, then be prepared to travel a bit. Typically realestate is cheaper (which is a huge chunk of cost of living) and it will be longer until your piece of heaven becomes suburbia.

You may find it easier to start by not looking for a specific town but a more loosely defined zone around, between, near specific areas that you find in your search...

That's what I'd do if I were to move on...


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## mongopush (May 5, 2014)

I think the answer to this question simple. Where does Eric Jackson live?? I mean here is a guy that really has kayaked all over the world and can live anywhere he wants. Just a thought.


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## carvedog (May 11, 2005)

BarryDingle said:


> Idaho is closed on Sundays. For The Lord.


Amen.


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## Greenroom (Jun 6, 2014)

1. Taos, 2. Buena Vista 3. Salida


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## mbrookins (Jan 27, 2012)

Everyone is Saying CO how about Asheville NC?


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## climber-420 (Jan 10, 2014)

mbrookins said:


> Everyone is Saying CO how about Asheville NC?


 
Asheville is tha bomb. I lived in Brevard for 5 years, then Asheville for 4. If I was to leave CO, and go anywhere, it would be straight back to Asheville. All 4 seasons, great food, and music, weird vibe cause it is a melting pot, and overall just a sweet place. Although I would miss the backcountry snowboarding, and the world class fly fishing, I ........fuck it. I ain't going anywhere.


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## trickpony (Apr 20, 2010)

jmack said:


> Honestly, Durango is not that great for a Class III paddler. We have the Town run, then the next steps up are the Piedra and Upper A, and it only gets harder from there. If you are not interested in at least remote Class IV, there isn't much to do here.


I would second this about Durango - I lived there for a year and was pretty underwhelmed with the whitewater scene. The town run is lame, the Piedra and Upper A are by no means after work/family friendly III/IV (the Piedra isn't all that tough but it's remote and consequential... the Upper A is remote IV-V and a total pain in the ass to get to/shuttle), and the Dolores has water 2 days a year. I don't know much about other states, but for CO whitewater Salida/BV area is really the pick... There are some random areas northwest of Fort Collins that I wouldn't mind moving to either.


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## possumturd (Jul 13, 2006)

*ktown*

I will throw out Knoxville. Not much after work boating but lots of boating in proximity (Cumberland Plateau and all of Southern Appalachia). 

Ktown has a thriving underground scene in Knoxville with good food, beer and music and the cost of living is cheap. 

Problem is the fckn bumpkins (which I am one) and shitty air quality.

I will go +1 and Asheville as well. I could live there as well as Salida. BV is a dump.


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## lmyers (Jun 10, 2008)

possumturd said:


> BV is a dump.


Glad to hear folks from Boulder think BV is a dump...let's keep it that way.


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## MikeThulin1972 (Mar 23, 2012)

Having lived in NC and now CO
But have visited NZ,chile and PNW
I would say late winter,early spring in SE summer in CO and fall and early winter in PNW.. As for CO towns.. I'd live in roaring fork valley if I could afford it.. Otherwise I'll take BV all day. !!!


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## Ripper (Aug 29, 2012)

Banks or BV would be my vote, but what the hell do y'all do for work?


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## Anchorless (Aug 3, 2010)

It doesn't really matter... anywhere you go has been or will be discovered and soon become congested, expensive, littered, and crime-ridden. 

The places that haven't been discovered, or are slow in being exploited and destroyed, are that way for a reason. Usually, no jobs, bad weather, no jobs, isolated, and no jobs.


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## MikeThulin1972 (Mar 23, 2012)

I'm thought about going to Idaho at some point but life
Must really suck up there ..anchor...


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## Anchorless (Aug 3, 2010)

As other people suggested, right now it's just awful. Awful.


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## SteamboatBORN (Sep 22, 2012)

I am biased and it does not really qualify for the original posters question, but Steamboat is my vote.


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## hand8272 (May 24, 2011)

Del Boca Vista at that's it.


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## Fishnfowler (Apr 19, 2014)

I had a few false starts to this thread, but have finally decided to toss some names into the mix that are off the map.

Without going into detail on why I like these, (figure it out yourself), here they are:

Baker City, OR; Salmon, ID; Dayton, WA; Thompson Falls, MT.

Good luck finding Nirvana.


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## GratefulOne (Jun 12, 2010)

Thanks Fishn! really appreciate that! and everyone else who took the time. Thanks!


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## hand8272 (May 24, 2011)

Fishnfowler said:


> I had a few false starts to this thread, but have finally decided to toss some names into the mix that are off the map.
> 
> Without going into detail on why I like these, (figure it out yourself), here they are:
> 
> ...


Dayton? Hmmm...ok, nice small town main street but what else?


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## LSB (Mar 23, 2004)

1. Alberton MT 25 mi west of Missoula at the put in for the Alberton gorge.
2. Bayfield CO, I lived in Durango for 15 years and surfed my ass off on that town run
3. Fayetteville WV, Bring your banjo


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## Fishnfowler (Apr 19, 2014)

hand8272 said:


> Dayton? Hmmm...ok, nice small town main street but what else?


County Seat for one. Sure this is a boating site, but most of us find other things to occupy us the rest of the year. There is boating close enough to pull off a day trip. Plenty of rivers: Snake, Salmon, Grande Ronde, Touchet, Tucannon, and the Walla Walla. 20 pound steelhead run through the middle of town. A ski area. A restaurant to die for. A stable agriculturally based economy. More public land than a person could cover in a lifetime. Little snow in town. A growing season that will put a decent watermelon on the table, but the weather isn't blistering hot or arctic cold. No freeway. Elk, Deer, Bear, Pheasant, Turkey, Quail, Chukars, Huns, and Grouse. A brewpub that is in a used book store, (how cool is that). Gorgeous Victorian homes that still sell for cheap or plenty of land for the rural types. I could go on....


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## elkhaven (Sep 11, 2013)

Fishnfowler said:


> County Seat for one. Sure this is a boating site, but most of us find other things to occupy us the rest of the year. There is boating close enough to pull off a day trip. Plenty of rivers: Snake, Salmon, Grande Ronde, Touchet, Tucannon, and the Walla Walla. 20 pound steelhead run through the middle of town. A ski area. A restaurant to die for. A stable agriculturally based economy. More public land than a person could cover in a lifetime. Little snow in town. A growing season that will put a decent watermelon on the table, but the weather isn't blistering hot or arctic cold. No freeway. Elk, Deer, Bear, Pheasant, Turkey, Quail, Chukars, Huns, and Grouse. A brewpub that is in a used book store, (how cool is that). Gorgeous Victorian homes that still sell for cheap or plenty of land for the rural types. I could go on....


Water to run, big fish to catch, critters to kill and beer to drink while reading used books, sounds like Nirvana to me! Any one want a house in Bozeman?

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