# W VA members or others familiar with Lower Gualey



## tango (Feb 1, 2006)

the lower gauley is kind of big water style class 3 and maybe just barely class 4, but there are a some places in the river you don't want to be (like under a rock).


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## Flying_Spaghetti_Monster (Jun 3, 2010)

tango said:


> but there are a some places in the river you don't want to be (like under a rock).


True story.


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## hawkiirock (Jun 19, 2010)

Overall it seems to be considered pretty mellow from what I have gathered. Any suggestions on where I can get a detailed river guide on it?


tango said:


> the lower gauley is kind of big water style class 3 and maybe just barely class 4, but there are a some places in the river you don't want to be (like under a rock).


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## Flying_Spaghetti_Monster (Jun 3, 2010)

American Whitewater - NWRI - Gauley 9 (Lower). Bucklick Branch to Swiss
Not very detailed, but it gives you an idea.


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## Junk Show Tours (Mar 11, 2008)

It is not mellow a class III stretch, definitely not suitable for beginners. While not as intense as the Upper G, it still has many significant hazards. A few highlights: There is a house sized undercut on river right in your first rapid (Koontz's Flume), the best line is between it and the wide hydraulic in the middle of the rapid. Upper Mash is a very technical lead in with a ledge drop above a pool, there is a sieve just to the right of the ledge drop. After a brief pool, Lower Mash has a big hit with an undercut rock on river left at the end. Finally, there is a terminal sieve on river right at the bottom of Pure Screaming Hell, which is a fairly long rapid with a huge hole (maybe the biggest one on the whole river) at the end. There are other issues as well, get more beta before you go.


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## dugan (May 5, 2006)

Hang out at the put-in until somebody agrees to let you tag along - offer beer and or weed, that should help. It would be pretty helpful to have a guide your first time down. Worst case scenario is you still have beer and weed if no ones wants to boat with you.


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## hawkiirock (Jun 19, 2010)

Great info and exactly what I am needing. Didn't realize there were those hazards. Saw on youtube the screaming hell rock and the under cut there. I am wondering if there is a good book that lays out the paths you want to take? I have googled but not seen anything great. ANy suggestions?


I like the idea of tagging along but don't want to drive out 10-12 hours and not go down it. I don't do weed but if i have a buddy that might go that lives on the stuff lol!

Thanks for the link FSM!


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## FrankC (Jul 8, 2008)

If you are a beginner you have no business on the Lower Gauley. I would just pay an outfitter for a guided raft trip and have a good time. There are some easier runs on the New River that you might be able to handle by yourself though.


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## pbell (Oct 23, 2008)

It should also be said that the lower G has some world class playboating.


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## hawkiirock (Jun 19, 2010)

Thanks. Need to look into the New river more. How long are its levels up?


FrankC said:


> If you are a beginner you have no business on the Lower Gauley. I would just pay an outfitter for a guided raft trip and have a good time. There are some easier runs on the New River that you might be able to handle by yourself though.


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## mwunder424 (Oct 1, 2009)

Lower G. --> You can sneak Kuntz, Mash and PSH... so the hazards are really not a factor.. but it still is big water and a solid roll is very helpful -- ( especially if ur the one chasing them ) 
The New River is always running... and there are various sections from class I through class -IV. At current flows all sections of the New would be easier than the Lower G.

The party is worth the drive.


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## Flying_Spaghetti_Monster (Jun 3, 2010)

pbell said:


> It should also be said that the lower G has some world class playboating.


Thats what I hear. I will be bringing both boats


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## BoscoBoater (Jul 11, 2006)

This site might help you understand what you are looking to run a little better. It has video of every rapid on the upper and lower Gauley. It gives an excellent running commentary on the hazards and preferred lines through each rapid. 

Rapids of the Gauley River Video Tour

Gotta say thanks to ACE Adventure Resort for posting this fine resource.


Have fun on your trip dude!


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## Flying_Spaghetti_Monster (Jun 3, 2010)

Thanks man that is a great resource.


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## hawkiirock (Jun 19, 2010)

Wow thanks!



BoscoBoater said:


> This site might help you understand what you are looking to run a little better. It has video of every rapid on the upper and lower Gauley. It gives an excellent running commentary on the hazards and preferred lines through each rapid.
> 
> Rapids of the Gauley River Video Tour
> 
> ...


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## Xtraheat (May 10, 2010)

I think that Lower Mash is the second most hazardous rapid on all of the Gauley behind Lost Paddle. You have two huge holes follwed by a big big wave train all that leads directly into an undercut. The problem with Koontz's Flume and PSH is that you have to aim directly at the hazards at the beginning of the rapids, so you have no room for error. Heaven Help You and Upper Mash are both really weird, confusing rapids due to the shallowness at the top. I've swam Heaven Help You, it's not life-threatening but it's not fun... With all this being said, you can swim any rapid on the river and come out fine, and you probably will. However, the dangers are present, and it's nothing to mess around with


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## hawkiirock (Jun 19, 2010)

Thanks for your response. I sure feel a lot better after watching those videos. If we end up going we will all study the hell out of them. We would only do Lower Gauley. I noticed how some of the rafts went rigth for the undercuts at first to get the right angle and then let the current sweep them by



Xtraheat said:


> I think that Lower Mash is the second most hazardous rapid on all of the Gauley behind Lost Paddle. You have two huge holes follwed by a big big wave train all that leads directly into an undercut. The problem with Koontz's Flume and PSH is that you have to aim directly at the hazards at the beginning of the rapids, so you have no room for error. Heaven Help You and Upper Mash are both really weird, confusing rapids due to the shallowness at the top. I've swam Heaven Help You, it's not life-threatening but it's not fun... With all this being said, you can swim any rapid on the river and come out fine, and you probably will. However, the dangers are present, and it's nothing to mess around with


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## Xtraheat (May 10, 2010)

hawkiirock said:


> Thanks for your response. I sure feel a lot better after watching those videos. If we end up going we will all study the hell out of them. We would only do Lower Gauley. I noticed how some of the rafts went rigth for the undercuts at first to get the right angle and then let the current sweep them by


Yeah, the rafts don't really have much chance of getting flipped by just plain old wave trains, so they have a bit of leniency in that rapid. However, a kayak or an OC-1 can get eaten up by that hole, so just be careful (but don't try to go right too early, I've flipped like that before). But most of all, just take it slowly and have fun! 
P.S. If you swim in Upper Mash, Swim right!


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## BoscoBoater (Jul 11, 2006)

If your planning that long of a drive for a bottom run, you might want to consider taking a guided trip on the upper as well. Your going to be right there anyway and it would be a good opportunity to scout the upper before your trip next year.(believe me, you will want to go again!) I think it would be worth the price.


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## hawkiirock (Jun 19, 2010)

Good point. I am torn because I am single father and my buddy has 3 small kids so we do have budgets and I want to buy some gear while out there lol. So will have to choose upgrade in gear or run the upper while there

Having trouble finding info on the new river. I loved those vids of the lower. HOpe to scout the new river if we decide to run that. 

Anybody know how long of run that is?

I went to American whiteater for the Gauley info and it was just plain hard for me to follow. Kinda geared towards kayaks IMO. So i havent checked it for new river but will


BoscoBoater said:


> If your planning that long of a drive for a bottom run, you might want to consider taking a guided trip on the upper as well. Your going to be right there anyway and it would be a good opportunity to scout the upper before your trip next year.(believe me, you will want to go again!) I think it would be worth the price.


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## Xtraheat (May 10, 2010)

Don't underestimate the Lower New... It's not "hard" per se (the rapids are pretty straightforwad), but you'll find wave trains in the Keeneys bigger than anything on the Lower G and close to anything on the Upper.

Edit: I've been boating class V for years, and the closest call I've ever had was swimming Middle Keeney into the Meat Grinder on the New


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## Junk Show Tours (Mar 11, 2008)

Xtraheat said:


> I've been boating class V for years, and the closest call I've ever had was swimming Middle Keeney into the Meat Grinder on the New


Where did you swim? The right channel? Directly into the rocks? I once nearly wrapped a raft around the rocks, thankfully made it just left, but I was scared.


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## Xtraheat (May 10, 2010)

Yeah I swam directy into the right channel through all the sieves and undercuts. Extremely scary!


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## rebel1916 (Aug 20, 2010)

At these water levels the new is more bony then big waves. Put in at cunard, take out at fayette station I believe is 6.5 miles. just remember if you swim middle or upper keeneys swim left, and all the rocks in double z are undercut. well a few of em aint, but if your unfamiliar with the river it's better to assume they are.


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## Xtraheat (May 10, 2010)

Also, NUMBER 1 thing to know as a newcomer at low water levels, at the rapid called Lower Railroad (look on a map or something to find out where it is exactly), DO NOT paddle 50 feet off the left bank (you will actually die if you paddle into the wrong spot). It is a very easy rapid, just make sure to go far far left.


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## rebel1916 (Aug 20, 2010)

It is maybe half a mile past the put in right on the far side of the pool after the railroad bridge. At real low water, the far left line is kind of a hero line in a kayak (big drop, not much water, but you can sneak it river right. The catchers mitt shaped under cut is right in the main current though.


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## Junk Show Tours (Mar 11, 2008)

I've done a body recovery at Lower Railroad, it wasn't fun.

At Middle Keeney, you can also swim into the huge eddy on river right, if you are already on the right side of the rapid when you are swimming. At certain water levels, this is a better idea that trying to make it left of meatgrinder. Of course, you then have to do the hairy ferry back to river left, but you are better off to give that a shot from the higher part of the right eddy than to be further down in the current nearer meatgrinder trying to get left. 

Double Z is technical at low flows, start center and immediately move to the far right above the ledge holes, then work your way through a slot and generally stay right. Look for two diagonal waves coming off the right wall, if you hit them with the wrong angle (or far right at low water) they will surf you to the center and into Table Rock, which is an undercut that has caused multiple fatalities. The entire left side of the rapid is undercut, especially Butcher's Block. 

Also make sure you enter Miller's Folly at the right spot, the rocks at the top right are undercut and you need to enter the rapid just to the left of them.


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## Xtraheat (May 10, 2010)

And the section below Miller's Folly (Bloody Knuckle?) is noooo fun to swim. But all of this makes the New sound super dangerous; however, if you just learn of the hazardous spots and stear clear of them, it's about as safe as big water like this gets.


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## Xtraheat (May 10, 2010)

So, if it helps, I'll try to summarize the spots to watch out for: Lower Railroad 50 feet off the left bank, the right side below Middle Keeney, I've heard the left side of Lower Keeney has some rough spots...but I've never personally noticed them, there is a hole to the right of the bottom of Lower Keeney called Lolligag that can dish out some damage, Most of the rocks on Double Z (if you want to really play it safe, paddle down the FAR right, it's not a sneak line as it is actually harder, but you avoid the undercuts, Greyhound Bus Stopper (the entire rapid/hole) at higher levels, The top right rock at Millers Folly (really really easy to avoid), and there is a nasty hole/rock thing at the far right of Fayette Station. If you just identify these rapids on AW and try to figure out where to avoid, you can stay safe (someone chip in if I'm forgetting anything)


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## bamackc (Mar 19, 2008)

All of the lines are as wide as a school bus or wider.

Get someone to show you the lines (there will be folks willing to help you) or hop out of your boat and watch the lines people take.

It's a beautiful place, have fun!!!!!


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## hawkiirock (Jun 19, 2010)

Thanks everybody! Lots of good info here. We plan on watching other rafts and following them. Also have an ex guide who is familiar with the Gauley so sounds like we are going to test that out but once again will be scouting and watching other rafts. I have watched the videos over and over and am going to have each spot memorized and won't drink much until after the rafting which should help the judgement. Thanks again


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## hawkiirock (Jun 19, 2010)

How long does it take on average to run the Upper and Lower gauley if you do it all in one run?


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## Phil U. (Feb 7, 2009)

That's a very long day. I don't know how well that would work for a first timer with scouting etc.


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## wheretheriverflows (Mar 4, 2010)

Previously running on a commercial trip with no scouting, only stopping for lunch, the 22 mile trip took us from 9AM to 5:30PM. That's approx. 1 hour for lunch, but no other stops. Trust me, it's very worth splitting up the Upper and Lower on a private trip, as it is very enjoyable to spend time at the rapids, scouting, breaks, lunch etc. Quite the show on fest weekend, especially at Pillow, Sweets and lots of commercial traffic at Canyon Doors, where the Class VI/Rivermen/Mountain River camp is. I especially like Diagonal Ledges in the lower canyon for lunch and any spot on the Upper is good, but lots of people wait until all the way at Sweets to do lunch or a big break to watch the show. ACE is set up on river right at Sweets, so lots of folks below Sweets. Enjoy it, be safe and hopefully you get to watch the show, rather than be the show!


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## FrankC (Jul 8, 2008)

Make sure to post a trip report when you get back. This should be a very interesting trip especially if you run the marathon.


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## hawkiirock (Jun 19, 2010)

Thanks to all above. So much great info in the thread.

I am taking index cards with information on every rapid. Right now the plan is to drive all night Thurs night and just do the Upper or Lower on fri. See how that goes and decide on the marathon on Sat. My buddy wants to do the full thing but he thought u could do it in 5 hours lol. I want to party on the rocks and watch the other rafters/kayakers etc and enjoy the show so I am going to plug for doing Just one section Fri, Sat, and Sun morning.

how early is the dam release? Just asking b/c didn't know what time is too early to get on the water and have levels up. As long as I come back still kicking I will give a full update on how the trip went


FrankC said:


> Make sure to post a trip report when you get back. This should be a very interesting trip especially if you run the marathon.


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## hawkiirock (Jun 19, 2010)

On your 8 1/2 hour trip did you raft the 3 1/2 mile Middle gauley or did you go with ACE and bypass this?



wheretheriverflows said:


> Previously running on a commercial trip with no scouting, only stopping for lunch, the 22 mile trip took us from 9AM to 5:30PM. That's approx. 1 hour for lunch, but no other stops. Trust me, it's very worth splitting up the Upper and Lower on a private trip, as it is very enjoyable to spend time at the rapids, scouting, breaks, lunch etc. Quite the show on fest weekend, especially at Pillow, Sweets and lots of commercial traffic at Canyon Doors, where the Class VI/Rivermen/Mountain River camp is. I especially like Diagonal Ledges in the lower canyon for lunch and any spot on the Upper is good, but lots of people wait until all the way at Sweets to do lunch or a big break to watch the show. ACE is set up on river right at Sweets, so lots of folks below Sweets. Enjoy it, be safe and hopefully you get to watch the show, rather than be the show!


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## chiefton (Aug 3, 2006)

*Koontz's Flume*

True WV lore. Large gutted man with shiny scalp at the lower G put in; "There's an eddy river right above koontz's flume; fuck it" Good beta. My experience a few (6) years ago was that none of the runs are easy for a beginner, but certainly offers up a great time for anyone who doesn't probe a sieve or undercut. We were able to tag along with tourists, and video boaters with good success. Also, there used to be these fairly detailed maps (access, major hazards, of course not entirely inclusive) for sale at the cathedral cafe in fayetteville. Have fun, and remember there is no substitute for a competent and willing guide.

Craig

PS the girl with hairy nipples at rivers assured me that the blisters were only contagious during an outbreak


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## hawkiirock (Jun 19, 2010)

lol Good stuff!



chiefton said:


> True WV lore. Large gutted man with shiny scalp at the lower G put in; "There's an eddy river right above koontz's flume; fuck it" Good beta. My experience a few (6) years ago was that none of the runs are easy for a beginner, but certainly offers up a great time for anyone who doesn't probe a sieve or undercut. We were able to tag along with tourists, and video boaters with good success. Also, there used to be these fairly detailed maps (access, major hazards, of course not entirely inclusive) for sale at the cathedral cafe in fayetteville. Have fun, and remember there is no substitute for a competent and willing guide.
> 
> Craig
> 
> PS the girl with hairy nipples at rivers assured me that the blisters were only contagious during an outbreak


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## sko2riva (Sep 10, 2010)

Ok to clarify since some of the comments made are really really misleading and as a guide out there who has paddled the gauley and new many a time there are a few points you need to really pay attention to: 

First do not attempt the lower gauley if you do not have a solid roll. I’m talking from first hand experience from when I started boating and has an eh roll but rockin brace but still swam UNDER an undercut. 

If you are not a class IV boater or do not have a solid roll then I recommend paddling the middle gauley first which is from Mason Branch to Bucklick it’s a class III pretty easy run then you can continue downstream and paddle the lower. Super easy to bum a shuttle from people at the bottom especially during G-Fest if you decide to run the lower. 

The video makes everything look way easier than it actually is. The lower isn’t that difficult but it is very pushy and there are many undercuts/sieves and BIG holes that the water pushes towards (one undercut that people did not mention is heaven gates)

The New is definitely easier (still not for a beginner) and close to Gauley but once again there are several undercuts. If you follow someone who knows it that you should be good to go. Paddle Iraq and Xtraheat have somewhat good beta except that table rock in double z is not undercut and has not killed anyone but the right side of that rapid which was not mentioned IS undercut but the line is center right just don’t swim to shore until you finish the rapid if you happen to swim. The meat grinder after middle keeney, greyhound bus stopper, and lollygag will not be issues unless there is a miracle and we get ridiculous hurricanes.

And seriously why are you mentioning the upper gauley if you said you were a beginner. Please take this river seriously 4 people died in a month here last year. The most dangerous rapid (lost paddle) is not scoutable and not really portageable. 

Someone mentioned scouting the upper g which isn’t really doable except maybe pillow and sweets which are not easy to get to.

Sorry for the long post but this river will kick your ass if you aren’t ready for it. The gauley is amazingly fun as is the fest but if I were you I would consider running the middle and if all goes well then attempt the lower (IF you have a 75% roll) and then possibly running the new. If you want to see the upper gauley then definitely raft it.


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## rebel1916 (Aug 20, 2010)

Good info except that table is undercut. And I did say treat every rock in ZZ as being undercutm which would include the right...


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## hawkiirock (Jun 19, 2010)

Not sure if your post was all towards me or another poster but we are definitely rafting only. Thanks for the feedback and additional beta


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