# Moral Dilema San Juan or Taos box



## Jdsampsonite (Dec 7, 2015)

I am planning trips for next year and need to make a decision. I have never done the San Juan before and I was invited to go on a trip with a group that is going to do it in May. I have an 9 year old daughter that wants to really go on a rafting trip and I have heard this would probably be pretty appropriate trip to bring a younger kid on.

I also have a buddy that we put in together and bought a raft to do trips. He would like to really go back to New Mexico and do the Taos box/Race course trip again. This would obviously be a little bit more fun and exciting whitewater. However to do the Taos box you really need to go around April/May as well to catch decent flows. I want to do both but will not be able to. The father side of me says take my daughter on the San Juan and the Whitewater side of me says go to New Mexico. 
Both will be fun but figured I would get some input from the buzz.


----------



## lmyers (Jun 10, 2008)

If you have never been, then I would do the San Juan. It's a lazy desert river with some of the most impressive Native American ruins and art in the 4 Corners area.

Totally different type of trip than the lower Taos Box.


----------



## okieboater (Oct 19, 2004)

Take your daughter on the San Juan. Top section is ok, bottom section is awesome hikes and scenics. Do the entire float if you can. Stop at the middle take out tho and take daughter and other kiddos on the trip up for ice cream, that is a real treat.

Daughters grow up fast. Do not put time together off!!

Taos is easy to hit and you got the rest of your paddling career to do that run as much as you desire.


----------



## Jdsampsonite (Dec 7, 2015)

(Stop at the middle take out tho and take daughter and other kiddos on the trip up for ice cream, that is a real treat.)

There is a place to get out and get Ice Cream?


----------



## okieboater (Oct 19, 2004)

yup, take out river right just before the bridge at Mexican Hat. Best to leave a person at the rafts tho as there has been reports of minor theft. Hike up the trail maybe 10 to 15 minutes depending on your pace. There is a motel at the bridge with a little cafe and the trail will end at a little store with cold drinks and Ice Cream. Snack bar may or may not be open.

You can also fill up water jugs or at least last time I was there a year ago. If you have folks not able to do the entire float they can take out here. RV Park Owner will do limited shuttle for you and for a small daily fee you can leave your truck there in the RV park.


----------



## Phil U. (Feb 7, 2009)

Umm, I'm in agreement that time on the rio with your daughter is important and the San Juan is a perfect family trip. However, the river has a permit system and May is high season and the drawing hasn't been held yet so nobody has a trip on the Juan in May for next year, yet.


----------



## Jdsampsonite (Dec 7, 2015)

Good info to know on the Ice Cream shop. We will definetly have to take advantage of that when if we go.

On the permit situation he told me they go every May, so maybe they have a big group and everyone submits and they have been lucky and been drawn every year. I am sure if that is the case they will be having me submit as well.

I guess if we dont get drawn that will make my decision really easy. I have been leaning towards doing the San Juan with my daughter but just figured I would throw it out there. 

I am longing to do some rafting now that the season is ending and it's going to be a few months before I can go again.


----------



## Rojo (May 31, 2012)

*Hotel option*

Ease the softies into the river life with a night spent at the hotel at the bridge. Many years ago they even had a hot tub, but keep expectations low considering the age of the place and local economy.


----------



## mania (Oct 21, 2003)

so the taos box can often run well into the summer. In fact I took my then 9 year old daughter down the box last July. You can do both.


----------



## LSB (Mar 23, 2004)

do the box with your buddy and meet the tribe at Mexican hat for the lower juan


----------



## Jdsampsonite (Dec 7, 2015)

mania said:


> so the taos box can often run well into the summer. In fact I took my then 9 year old daughter down the box last July. You can do both.


How did your 9 year do on the Taos box. I'm afraid that if I fliped with my daughter or she fell in she wouldn't never go with me again. So I am always careful on what I take her on. 
I havent even taken her on the day trip on the salt yet and I have run that a ton of times.

I always thought the box was pretty much a April/May and early June at the latest to run. I know the Racecourse you can pretty much take whenever but with the box you need at least 750 if you want to run Powerline right?


----------



## Jetlab67 (Feb 16, 2015)

Our group launched out of MH just after the 4th of July holiday weekend. I brought a 13-year old young man who I've been mentoring the last several years, his first western river trip. By the time we arrived at MH, we'd already visited 7-national parks and hiked Grand Canyon and Canyonland's backcountry. Needless to say, this was a trip of a lifetime for a young man who'd never been out of Little Rock, Arkansas. The SJ provided a great backdrop for strengthening the bonds of friendship for all of us. Jump on the SJ adventure and make some incredible memories for the both of you!

Pablo


----------



## duct tape (Aug 25, 2009)

Jdsampsonite said:


> On the permit situation he told me they go every May, so maybe they have a big group and everyone submits and they have been lucky and been drawn every year. I am sure if that is the case they will be having me submit as well.


Just for a small dose of reality. We also have a large group and have not drawn an SJ, Yampa, or Grand permit in a few years. We are 2 for 2 on Lodore the last two years, and the main Salmon the year before so not complaining. 

Too much.

Good luck. As a father of 4 who have told me countless times their favorite family trips have been all of our rafting ones, my vote is obvious.


----------



## duct tape (Aug 25, 2009)

Pablo, What is the location of your first pic? Thx


----------



## Jetlab67 (Feb 16, 2015)

Hey Duct Tape, 

That'd be Gov't. Rapid from river left at 1600ish CFS. We stopped below the drop for lunch, to swim and some live-bait practice in the tailout. Also blew up the packraft and several of us did laps taking different lines through Gov't. 

On our last day I paddled the PR 17-miles from Slickhorn D to take-out as "channel scout" for us and the two groups behind us. Level was right at 1000 CFS when we hit Clay Hills. 

Pablo


----------



## dirtbagkayaker (Oct 29, 2008)

okieboater said:


> \
> 
> Daughters grow up fast. Do not put time together off!!


*Best advise ever! *


I think its 12 these days. 12 years old and they start turning into women. By age 14, they will be into boys and you're 2nd fiddle... I heard that they will like you again when they are 30 or so.


----------



## mania (Oct 21, 2003)

Jdsampsonite said:


> How did your 9 year do on the Taos box. I'm afraid that if I fliped with my daughter or she fell in she wouldn't never go with me again.


she thought it was pretty awesome. I wouldn't take her if I thought I had much chance of flipping but she can swim. Yes you want at least 750 with a raft.


----------



## Jdsampsonite (Dec 7, 2015)

mania said:


> she thought it was pretty awesome. I wouldn't take her if I thought I had much chance of flipping but she can swim. Yes you want at least 750 with a raft.


Well hopefully we get a good snowpack this year and we can run it late. It is a fun run I am sure she enjoyed it.


----------



## duct tape (Aug 25, 2009)

Jetlab67 said:


> Hey Duct Tape,
> 
> That'd be Gov't. Rapid from river left at 1600ish CFS. We stopped below the drop for lunch, to swim and some live-bait practice in the tailout. Also blew up the packraft and several of us did laps taking different lines through Gov't.
> 
> ...


Thanks. I always thought San Juan was a easy cruising, camping, Anasazi ruin-ing kind of river. Thanks looks like a real rapid.


----------



## Oc1paddler (Sep 6, 2005)

I was voting for Taos until you said you hadn't taken your daughter on the Salt yet. I took my son on the box when he was 8 or 9 but he grew up rafting and kayaking. There is always a chance of someone swimming and could potentially be a long cold one on the box. Take her on the SJ and enjoy spending time in the outdoors together. If your willing to drive there are lots of other rivers with good whitewater you can run in a weekend from phoenix to get your whitewater fix.


----------



## iamkeith (Aug 5, 2013)

I'm not adding much here, but want to drive home the fact that some of the above comments represent the single best advice you'll _ever_ get. Not just for rafting, but for life. THE BEST LIFE ADVICE YOU'LL EVER GET. Don't squander it.

I had one daughter early, and then another one 13 years later. I didn't do enough of this stuff with the older one, and regret it more than anything. We try occasionally now that she's grown up and has her own life, but it's just not her priority, and it doesn't work out that well. You only get one chance and, as others have said, that door closes at about 12 or 13 years old.

By contrast, my 13 year old daughter, for whom I've made such things a priority, lives for adventure and wilderness, and is completely at home on the river. The BEST thing is that, at 13, she's already a full participant - not just baggage. It's amazing the amount of growth that occurs between 9 and 13. Case in point, I took her and my 9 year old on the San Juan this Spring. She rowed, she helped cook, she set up and broke down the tent by herself, and helped load the boat. 

FWIW, we did a lower-water San Juan trip in April with some other families, just before the permit season, because it corresponds with our Spring Break schedule. Perhaps that's another option for you? You'd be assured of a launch. Weather can be touch-and-go, but we lucked out. The other nice thing about this strategy is that the sediment and metals from the Gold King spill will be somewhat settled and aren't being flushed and agitated from spring runoff.

Here are some pics for inspiration, in case you need more convincing: Teaching the 9 year old to row, day hikes and swimming, rapids... smiles. I had the kids walk Government (daughter took picture), but really didn't need to. At low levels, there are other rapids that are actually more tricky than this one. 



Let us know what you decide, and how it goes.


----------



## Jdsampsonite (Dec 7, 2015)

It looks like you had a pretty good time on the trip. Thats great that your 2 younger kids are into it. I have really been trying to make sure all my kids are into doing the outdoor activities. Every summer we generally go on a camping trip. I also take them all down the lower salt every year. My 4 year old son really loves doing that. I also do an annual fishing trip in May normaly on the black river that I started bringing my oldest daughter on a couple of years ago and will bring my 7 year old daughter this year. ( I would bring them sooner but there is a kind of hard hike into where we fish) Hopefully that does not conflict with when they do the San Juan.

I am glad to see that there is a decent rapid on the San Juan, that will make it a little more fun. How is the fishing on the river? It will also be a good warm up for her for the following year I am hoping to take her down the day trip on the upper salt.

Hopefully we get a permit but maybe they have just been going in April like you said when they didn't get the permit. I didn't even know it was a permit system until this post so I am glad I found that out.


----------



## Shortblade (May 23, 2016)

Do the San Juan..I am trying to put together a trip so I can take my grandaughter .Enjoy that week. Time in the wilderness with the kiddos =awesome memories! !


----------



## Jdsampsonite (Dec 7, 2015)

I t will be fun to try something different and my daughter is excited about it because I asked her if she would rather do our fishing trip or do the river camping trip and she really wants to do the river.


----------



## MountainmanPete (Jun 7, 2014)

duct tape said:


> Thanks. I always thought San Juan was a easy cruising, camping, Anasazi ruin-ing kind of river. Thanks looks like a real rapid.


We did MH to SI at 6000 last June and the new Twin Canyons rapid was almost as exciting as govt. As for the previous post of the upper section not being that interesting I completely disagree. Do your research and the whole river will open up to you.


----------



## Flagstaff (Aug 6, 2013)

San Juan, as a rafter parent, nuf said. 


Flag


----------

