# Inflatable kayakers groups? And IK question



## 86304 (Apr 15, 2008)

long time duckie guy here, (as well as rafter/catarafter).

if you are planning to do overnighters you will need a two man ducky imho and experience. 
for day runs the one man is ideal but the two man is still fine. 

you will have a hard time loading up a one man in class 3/3+ for overnighters.

just my 2 cents!

bob


----------



## spthomson (Oct 18, 2003)

If you get the AlterEgo, let us know what you think. I was looking at it myself, but get the impression you sit pretty high in it, and I think I'd personally prefer a lower center of gravity.


----------



## treemanji (Jan 23, 2011)

My friend has a Zoik two person IK and uses it a lot, mostly running solo and is very happy with it. Its seen the Grand twice and tons of III to III+ days. Myself and others I IK with do just fine in a solo IK for overnighters up to class III+ with a IV here and there on the run. That said a tandem can usually run tight runs as well as a solo. Once you get a packing system down it is pretty simple. If the weather is colder packing changes a bit with more clothes and maybe more food. If you're packing right the only community item we have is a homemade aluminum fire pan that is just at minimum requirement NPS size. The rest of the gear is if its yours you carry it yourself then we end up with spare stuff in case someone has an issue with their gear. I run one large drybag and a smaller day bag. I will put the bigger bag in the bow for weight and I can use it to leverage my feet on.


----------



## spthomson (Oct 18, 2003)

Which Zoik? RF looks much better for whitewater than the AlterEgo. But, may just be appearances.


----------



## treemanji (Jan 23, 2011)

I'm not sure which model I'll ask and let you know.


----------



## DEA4boating (Mar 10, 2010)

I have an older NRS tandem that has thigh straps and foot pegs with the seat moved forward, so I can carry gear for an overnighter and I've ran it thru alot of class III + with no problems. 
There are so many new duckies out there to choice from from all the major raft manufactures that you may want to rent a couple to see which ones you like the best.


----------



## yetigonecrazy (May 23, 2005)

86304 said:


> you will have a hard time loading up a one man in class 3/3+ for overnighters.


^ this isn't really true.

I guess if you pack everything but the kitchen sink then it might be hard. my one person duck can take an overnights worth of supplies just fine...and its a small duck.

to the original poster, go for the Zoik. Theyre good boats, and as soon as I get back to America in 2015 I will be buying one!


----------



## hojo (Jun 26, 2008)

To start, I have IKs and Plastic boats so I'm not trying to sway you away from a boat for any biased reason. Why not get an IK for the day trips and a Raft for everything else? I know it's one of those unsolicited off topic suggestions, and I understand you're being conscious of your impact. I thought I'd just throw it out there.


----------



## denali1322 (Jun 3, 2013)

Similar post a few days ago. I agree with person that said you should rent a few and try them out, which is what I did. A few of them sit really high, which I didn't care for, nor do I think would be as sound for sticking gear in. 

I ended up with a Down River one that feels very stable in the water and has good gear storage area. They're a bit pricy compared to others (except Hyside and NRS Maveriks), but the last couple years they ran a big sale in Aug/Sept which dropped price nearly $250. However, I'm sure several types are good.


----------



## 86304 (Apr 15, 2008)

yetigonecrazy said:


> ^ this isn't really true.
> 
> I guess if you pack everything but the kitchen sink then it might be hard. my one person duck can take an overnights worth of supplies just fine...and its a small duck.
> 
> to the original poster, go for the Zoik. Theyre good boats, and as soon as I get back to America in 2015 I will be buying one!


not to argue (mama warned me about yetis ) , but when i think overnighters i usually think multi-day (4-6).

usually low water, early/late season, cold weather, have to carry your own water kind of trips.

also, keep in mind that high center of gravity boats tend to tip over easier and piling-high a heavy load usually doesn't help matters much.

not trying to hate here, just thought the original poster might want to consider looking for a 2 man before he drops some $$$$ on a one man.
most of my boating buds that only have one ducky, have a two man.
just a thought. 

bob


----------



## amatula15 (Jul 24, 2011)

*Thank you!*

Thank you, everyone!

This is all so helpful! I am sorry I did not see the other thread on IK's... I will do some research here too.

When I posted I was thinking one boat for everything, day runs and overnights (1-4 nights), but from what has been posted here, I think I'll reconsider and get a one person ducky for day runs. I did more research and the Tomcat LV seems fun.

I am at heart a river runner who likes to play the river. So the play and technical aspect is important to me even on overnights: surfing, ferrying, splatting (yes I can manage that sometimes too!). 

Someone mentioned the Down River. I demo'd a 2 person one on a recent Adventure Bound USA trip and overall I liked it, but it was too heavy for me to run the river more playfully and hard to manuever at times (although I managed to get where I wanted to go for the most part). I sat too low so I sat on the backrest/seat (?) to raise myself up more. It's a very sturdy, well-made and stable kayak. I infer it can really take a beating. 

But a number of newbie paddlers paddling tandem on the trip flipped them and got stuck on/between rocks; so, just a friendly FYI to anyone reading this without experience: please be aware that although IKs can be more forgiving than hardshell kayaks, you still need experience, technique, and river reading skills. 

Thanks again, everyone!

Enjoy,
Annie


----------



## gunnerman (Jun 6, 2013)

I did alot of research before I bought my first IK about 6 years ago and here is my input after logging about 1,000 river miles. Dollar for dollar, and mucho versatility you cannot beat a tributary tomcat. I have a single with footpegs and thighstraps to do technical, rocky, narrow class III and IV; and I have a tandem that can haul 3 people on big waves like the colorado. What makes the single so great is you can put plenty enough gear for overnight trips or you can also move the adjustable seat and put a second seat way in front and carry a small person or your dog. I has a 320 lb. rating and nice big 11in. baffles which makes this boat very stable in really rough water. Price wise nobody can touch this boat for the quality and do extreme class III (taylor,crystal, and shoshone) with no problem. Get you one!


----------



## shredder-scott (May 21, 2013)

Hi.

Ok here is my $.02.

I have never paddled the Zoik IK. 

I have paddled the Aire lynk, and force IK's. The Sotar solo IK on clear creek, ark, colorado, platte, roaring fork. 

Given that Zoik's description of the boat emphasizes it 's flat water capabilities.

Given that there are lots class III ducky frendly runs in colorado.

I would suggest you look at a whitewater IK. You will still have ability do overnights. You will give up little in flat water river performance, and you will have significant whitewater performance gains.

I feel tigh straps and footpegs are important for running whitewater.

In my experience finding a quality used IK's is possible but they can be difficult to find.

I would suggest you consider thr NRS, Aire, Sotar, and the Star IK's.

IK's are a ton of fun in class III whitewater.

Hope that helps.

Scott


----------



## Randaddy (Jun 8, 2007)

http://www.nrsweb.com/shop/product.asp?pfid=1190&pdeptid=1134

If I bought a 1 person IK and wanted to self support with it I would get this one. It's sweet to see NRS bringing back the old Riken designs!

For a 2 person I'd probably stick with Aire and buy it new for the warranty.


----------



## ScottM (Jun 24, 2010)

*Zoik and sotar*

You won't be happy with the Alter Ego for III+ runs. It won't drain fast enough between rapids.

I have a Zoik RF and love it and so did my wife, so I gave it to her and bought a Sotar, which is incredibly bomb proof. I mean that thing can't be harmed and believe me, I've been trying!

If you back pack at all, then you will find it very easy to load up a 1 man for multi day trips, including the Zoik.

Have fun!


----------



## cayo 2 (Apr 20, 2007)

Considering that the Seminole costs a little more and has absurd rocker (20 "!) and the old school seam where side tube meets rockered end instead of continuous curve, I would definitely go with a Lynx....that said I paddled a Riken Cherokee once and liked it ok...why to people keep saying you need a two man for Multi -day trips? How much stuff you got? You can EASILY carry everything you need for three day trip in a one man /person Lynx and handle class IV......sacrifice beer and go ultralite backpacker style you can probably double that...

I take it this Pennel Orca or Penile Okra has replaced Hypalon....any feedback..an improvement? ...as grabby as hypalon?


----------



## yetigonecrazy (May 23, 2005)

cayo 2 said:


> why to people keep saying you need a two man for Multi -day trips? How much stuff you got? You can EASILY carry everything you need for three day trip in a one man /person Lynx and handle class IV......sacrifice beer and go ultralite backpacker style you can probably double that...


Exactly! If you are buying the duck for the sole purpose of going on a 5 day overnighter, then yeah, get the divorce boat.

but living in CO, I am going to guess that most people who buy a ducky here will use it for more than just that 5 nighter. Ergo, you need a single man boat for our low volume, technical rivers. 

a giant duck that can carry a C-130's worth of supplies might be attractive for a multi-day trip, but I certainly wouldnt want to take a huge two-person tributary down Foxton at 250 cfs. and with the original poster living in Denver, I think winding up on Foxton @ 250 is going to happen a LOT more than those 6 days overnighters.

but, JMHO, YMMV.


----------



## cayo 2 (Apr 20, 2007)

250 is way low on Foxton ..285 is my bare minimum..seem to get 327 alot,hard to get to ojazzed about it...but I get your point...to illustrate that point :a guy I know who paddles a two man Lynx and does much harder suff than most duckiers Bailey, Clear crk. of theArk, Royal Gorge too high for commercial rafting., for example.He was leading a CWA group of newbies through the boulder garden on Foxton.He managed to somehow bridge pin that 13 ft. boat in there and was all embarrassed...you can paddle the two man solo and even creek some but it is a tank not suitable for some runs...


----------



## Randaddy (Jun 8, 2007)

You might also look at inflatable canoes if your main intention is overnighters. Backpacking gear fits great in a one person - especially if it's light and simple - but a groover can take up a lot of space in a solo boat out for a week. With a canoe you could have more of a traditional river camp, even with 2 people.

The Aire Traveler is at the top of my list and I can't wait to get one and day trip technical whitewater with it too!


----------



## Randaddy (Jun 8, 2007)

I forgot to mention an awesome inflatable kayak group in Leadville. It's always accepting new members and takes a lot of fun trips. It's called "Me." PM if you ever want to paddle!


----------



## Wadeinthewater (Mar 22, 2009)

Randaddy said:


> The Aire Traveler is at the top of my list and I can't wait to get one and day trip technical whitewater with it too!


My son has one. He doesn't like it compared to a Lynx II. His main complaint is that the Traveler drains slowly.


----------



## robanna (Apr 20, 2004)

86304 said:


> not to argue (mama warned me about yetis ) , but when i think overnighters i usually think multi-day (4-6).
> 
> usually low water, early/late season, cold weather, have to carry your own water kind of trips.
> 
> ...


Why would you need to bring your water with you. I would assume you're going to be near water the entire trip. A water filter weighs a bit less than 5 gallons of tap water.

Go backpacking in a ducky. My pack for a week weighs less than 10 pounds (minus food). The average person might be at about 40 pounds. You should be able to fit a backpack into most any solo IK. I guess you'll have to leave the fire pan, 5 gallon jug of water, 20 gallon cooler of beer, 3 burner stove with 20 lbs tank and full kitchen at home but it's doable if you think like a backpacker and not a GC rafter.


----------



## amatula15 (Jul 24, 2011)

*Filtering*

That's a great idea actually for drinking creek/brook water if it exists. But something about the fact that folks can/and need to (some river regulations) pee in the river doesn't have me too enthusiastic about filtering. Of course, I have probably drank water with pee in it unintentionally more than once, but to do so intentionally does not sound too appealing.  

I can pack light. That's easy (except for the groover, but perhaps I can have an open canoer carry that). 

I average 30 lbs and still feel like I am living in luzury in the wilderness. 


All the best,


----------



## Star Inflatables (Jul 25, 2013)

*Insider Info*

The Zoic RF is made in the same factory and to the same specifications as Star Inflatables SL100 with one exception, Zoic boats have the H3 valves and Star has Leafield L7 valves. The other Zoic IK is also made in the same factory with Flash 100 specs. You'd be surprised by what is made in our factory with different branding. There are US boat manufactures, but many of the boats have parts (floor bladders, d-rings, handles, etc.) made over seas and the boats are assembled in the US.


----------



## ScottM (Jun 24, 2010)

Star Inflatables said:


> The Zoic RF is made in the same factory and to the same specifications as Star Inflatables SL100 with one exception, Zoic boats have the H3 valves and Star has Leafield L7 valves. The other Zoic IK is also made in the same factory with Flash 100 specs. You'd be surprised by what is made in our factory with different branding. There are US boat manufactures, but many of the boats have parts (floor bladders, d-rings, handles, etc.) made over seas and the boats are assembled in the US.


I remember looking into that when I bought mine a couple of years ago and did discover that alot of these boats are made in the same factory with usually minor spec differences.

I would have gotten either, but I got a deal deal on the Zoik and jumped on it.


----------



## slickhorn (Dec 15, 2005)

for self-support gear, there are lots of options to keep things light and simple. 

for a group, the eco safe boom box will handle 4 people for a week. just line with a new wag bag each day to keep 'er tidy. makes a great foot brace.

alternatively, a climber style poop tube with rv caps will pack in any boat. 

fore firepans, there are some cool DIY options like The Fire Pan | Self Support Kayak Camping but you can also just use a steam table pan Amazon.com: Standard Stainless Steel Full-Size Steam Table Pan - 4" Deep (24 gauge): Kitchen & Dining (or a radio flyer wagon pan I hear lol)

Drinking water is often best snagged from a side stream. but a little pee in the river isn't the problem. Ag runoff or mining activity/mineral load can be though.

I like to use a simple gravity filter, made by sawyer Sawyer 3-Way Inline Water Filter - Free Shipping at REI.com I use it with a filter bottle on the water during the day, and in camp, the same filter gets hung with a 1 gallon bag. I got all the water I need while I set up my tent. whole package weighs about the same as a traditional filter like a katadyn hiker. Add a prefilter as needed.

people do months in the backcountry on 5lb packrafts. others haul 300lbs for a one night trip. any of these boats will work, and I personally find a single IK is just fine handling my 250lb ass and all my gear for a week, including a groover. 

the critical part, as always, is actually getting out on trips.


----------



## amv48 (Mar 27, 2011)

amatula15 said:


> Hi,
> I paddled a hard-shell for 10+ years and am considering IK (inflatable kayak) paddling. Mostly I am interested in overnight trips on rivers to class 3/3+ and day trips. Are there any IK groups in Colorado?
> 
> Also, I am considering the Zoik AlterEgo I Inflatable Kayak because I can get a good deal on a used one and it looks like a good, lightweight choice for up to class 3 for a lightweight paddler. Also it appears I would sit higher in the kayak and I (a short person) appreciate that attribute. Does anyone have experience with this IK?
> ...


I've run a Tomcat solo for about 5 yrs mostly on multi day trips. I can run plenty of gear for self-support. I sit on a big bill's bag, run a pump, chair, beer, and 1 gal bomb in rear. In front extra gear or small dry box for food, and a water jug, throwbag, and anything extra. We either run with the disposable poop bags or my buddy carries a small plastic grooved.


----------



## DEA4boating (Mar 10, 2010)

I ran with a group of duckies on Browns this weekend and saw the Zoic tandum and really think it will be my next boat of choice...really good rocker, floor set up higher and boater wasnt sitting in water all the time. And seemed really responsive in play situations. i was in my Jacks Plastic mini-cat and was able to surf several big waves too! Both are good boats for over-nighters when carrying some gear.


----------



## amatula15 (Jul 24, 2011)

*Groups*

Hi everyone, 
Thank you so much for the super-helpful information! I can pack light so may go with a Tomcat or perhaps the Zoik (if I can demo one)
DEA4boating: how do you connect with IK groups?
Thank you again!


----------



## DEA4boating (Mar 10, 2010)

amatula15...well I wish it was earier on this form to connect...but mostly we just are all reafing friends that have Duckies and send out mass text's to people when we decide to go somewhere..pm me with your # and I'll add you to the list.


----------



## DEA4boating (Mar 10, 2010)

I meant rafting....reafing= sounds like we are all potheads...!!!


----------

