# Out of Bounds vs Backcountry..



## cma (Dec 19, 2003)

http://www.9news.com/acm_news.aspx?...MPLATEID=0c76dce6-ac1f-02d8-0047-c589c01ca7bf

What if you hike up Peak 6 near Breckenridge for a good day of backcountry and you are skiing down just outside the ski area boundries, are you technically skiing out of bounds? or can you only be accussed of skiing out of bounds if you are holding a lift pass?


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## jmack (Jun 3, 2004)

The Colorado Ski Safety Act of 1979 says that "(3) No skier shall ski on a ski slope or trail that has been posted as 'Closed'". C.R.S. 33-44-101. Skier is defined: " Skier' means any person using a ski area for the purpose of skiing, which includes, without limitation, sliding downhill or jumping on snow or ice on skis, a toboggan, a sled, a tube, a snowbike, a snowboard, or any other device; or for the purpose of using any of the facilities of the ski area, including but not limited to ski slopes and trails." C.R.S. 33-44-101. Looks to me like you are covered whether or not you bought a ticket (but I am not your lawyer so don't quote me on it).


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## Mut (Dec 2, 2004)

My understanding of the statutue is that if you use the ski area to gain backcountry access you are in violation of the statute. If you hike up next to a ski area, and do not use the ski area trail to skin up or any other part of the ski area to facilitate you skiing, then you are not violating the statute. 

One of the intents behind the statute is to prevent a scenario where a skier uses the resort to get themselfs into trouble in the backcountry.

There is no law out there that prevents you from skiing backcountry (unless you use the resort to access it)


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## Andy H. (Oct 13, 2003)

Mut's correct with one exception: some ski areas have access gates to allow us to access OUR national forest. In the example you cited you are technicaly skiing outside the ski area and could be prosecuted if you had ducked the rope along the ski area boundary. If you had used a backcountry access gate then you are legally using the ski area to get to the backcountry.

Have fun and be careful out there,

--Andy


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## brendodendo (Jul 18, 2004)

Like the other post on BC ski vs. Snowmobiles it comes down to education. Places like Aspen et.al (highlands, snowmass, ?buttermilk?) have a myriad of access gates. Some into benign areas( can't say for reasons of national security) and some into incrediby scarry or hazardous terrain like Maroon Bowl at Highlands. Yes it costs money to rescue idiots, but hopefully the access gates are marked in a way that discourages gapers from leaving the relative safety of the ski area. Its like being at the beach with no lifeguard. some people have the skills and others don't. Ride with'n your ability.


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## tellutwurp (Jul 8, 2005)

This conversation always ignites me. It pisses me off that you can find yourself out of bounds at a ski resort without ever crossing a rope or passing a closed sign, and then get hassled by ski partol. For instance, I am familiar with several areas of Keystone where there you can find yourself in a position of not being able to make it back to the ski resort without ever having any warning, which is where I think the recent idiot of a skier spent 3 days hunkered down. Regardless, I really don't think the rules apply to me and ski patrolers are usually reasonable; you probably aren't going to get a ticket unless you are an asshole, carrying a concealed weapon, or are placing others in dangerous situations. But just in case, use the backcountry access gates since most resorts have them.


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## natedog108 (Jan 7, 2006)

*backcountry vs. out of bounds*

Yes, you can get in to trouble for skiing in a closed area, no matter how you managed to get into that closed area. 

It is OUR national forest, but ski areas operating in that national forest sometimes have special permit use......... This would dictate then, that under the CO ski safety Act 1979, you can be prosecuted for skiing in a closed area, whether you hike up or ride a lift. If you enter a ski area's boundary. and then proceed to ski in a "closed" area, you can and probably will be fined. I was proecuted by a County Sheriff in a undiscloed ski town where this exact situation was revealed to me. 

Its the truth people...........


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## sj (Aug 13, 2004)

Peak 6 is a bad example as there is a gate open at times. Technical jargon aside you duck a rope to acess the BC you are toast. If you just go bc and get lost the local law enforcement will use their judgment on wether to press charges. 

So to make it all cool with evryone. Allways take the right saftey gear and get a fishing lisence(can't even spell it. Then no worries period. sj


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## earthNRG (Oct 24, 2003)

Tellutwurp, the rules don't apply to you? How do you figure? That's the kind of attitude that gets people into trouble. Either you're too arogant to realize the rules do apply (someday they'll come crashing down on you), or someone else will see you break the rules, follow your example, and land in the last place they want to be (like hunkered down in the backcounty for three days). Remember, most people are lemmings. If you do stupid things, others will follow.


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## tellutwurp (Jul 8, 2005)

Easy there hoss. If caught the rules do apply to me, but it is usually my opinion that most rules are created to protect idiots from themselves. Now unless I happen to ram a splintered tree limb through my eye, I think I'll find my way back.

As for fools that chose to follow the tracks that lead off the cliff or into thick trees, that's not my problem. 

It is also my opinion that breaking rules is part of making change. I remember when getting air at resorts would get you into trouble. Now they build huge kickers for us. As backcountry gains popularity resorts will begin offer some more backcountry experience. Keystone is making effort to do this. 

I am arrogant, but not stupid... so if the lemming follows me I imagine he'll have a hell of an experience.


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## threepin73 (Jan 11, 2006)

*depends on BC access through USFS gate*

It's actually very simple.....
If you access the backcountry via a USFS access gate (many CO ski areas are on national forest land), and hold a valid day pass or annual ski pass, then you are allowed to be in the BC. You MUST access the BC through these gates. If you duck a rope to get to the BC....then that is illegal and a violation of the skier safety act. In Summit County that fine can be $300. You are allowed to ski through these gates......but then must continue outside the ski area. You can then get to a road or gulch and get a ride back to that base area. From there you can get back on the lift (of the area you left earlier via USFS access gate). You can do this as many times as you want. The biggest point here to explain is that you CAN NOT get to the BC via a ski area unless these gates exist. If they don't exist and you duck ropes or closures....then you are in violation of the skier safety act. 

To make this story even longer....if you get caught out of bounds near a boundry by patrol or sheriff, you best hope you went through a gate.....or hope that the person who catches you....didn't see you duck rope. You also have to make sure that USFS gates are present. If you are at an area that doesn't have them...then you are SOL. 

Thems tha rules!!!


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## cma (Dec 19, 2003)

I guess they would have to see you duck the ropes otherwise they would have to follow your tracks all the way uphill to determine where you came from. I would say your attitude upon "apprehension" would make a difference as well, however I have seen a couple instances over the years where a patroller was off mark, not often, but I have seen it. I also guess that raising the fine wouldn't make a difference unless they had signs posted every 50ft down the hill because the typical violators most likely don't know the fine exists in the first place.


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## whip (Oct 23, 2003)

*Alpental*

I skinned up Alpental on Snoqualmie Pass a few weeks ago driving home from WA. I was about 2/3 of the way up and asked a patroller what he thought was the most judicious route to the summit. Next thing I know
I'm being asked to head down the mtn even though it's all National Forest.
Real buzz killer as it was a beautiful sunrise and ski up to that point. I've worked for a few ski patrols and know quite a few patrollers. I felt it was pretty bogus but didn't feel like engaging in an argument.


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## mike_ski (Jan 11, 2006)

*Out-of-bounds vs. backcountry - where are the bounds?*

This topic brings up a related issue - where are the boundaries and which boundaries count. As someone wroter earlier, not all boundaries from the groomed and patrolled areas are clearly indicated all the time.

Also, not all areas that a resort or operation may have control over under a current lease in a specific national forest may currently be open. For instance, there may be a rope set up marking the "Ski Area Boundary", but 200 acres outside the rope may be part of a lease agreement for a ski area for future expansion, and something the ski area operations negotiate with each new lease.

If I remain outside of the ski area boundary as a backcountry skier, having never purchased a lift ticket, but I wander into an area that is controlled by or related to a ski area lease, am I trespassing? Am I required to obey the ski area rules in this area, even if, as a backcountry skier, I may not be aware of such a buffer zone if signs aren't posted?

If this is the case, I think many ski areas in Colorado, and some in New Mexico, are going to have to do a much more extensive posting of the actual boundaries and limits if they expect to do a lot more enforcement of out-of-bounds rules. I also suspect that such rules would have to be posted for backcountry skiers, since most ski areas only make these rules available to those who purchase a lift ticket (usually on the back of the ticket which nobody reads anyway). Backcountry skiers coming from an out-of-bounds area into a ski run may not realize they have become subject to the out-of-bounds rules once they are in-bounds, if that is the case.

I think this whole issue is going to have to be clarified a bit.


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## WhiteLightning (Apr 21, 2004)

Here is some good reading material on the subject from Coulior Magazine, written by an attorney:

Are "Out of Bounds" laws Out of Bounds?
http://www.couloirmag.com/articles/features/ob_laws.htm

Y'know what we do to poachers...boy?
http://www.couloirmag.com/articles/features/poachers.htm


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## JCKeck1 (Oct 28, 2003)

Tellut and mikeski, I'd be interested to know where you think the Keystone boundry is not marked. The area that the idiot spent time in is marked with signs every 100 ft that say "ski area boundry". That being said under the CO skier safety act, it is the duty of the rider to know which trails are open/closed and where the ski area boundry is. If you have questions about it, feel free to drop into patrol headquaters in the base of the Summit House to get a heads up. 
Whip, in CO if you skin up outside the boundry and don't use the lifts you can ski pretty much where ever you want. However, the laws may be different in WA. Furthermore, you are also allowed to skin up resort trails at any time and not buy a pass, as long as you don't use any lifts. If caught using lifts the penalties are generally severe and start with theft of services (much worse than $300). I would recommend checking with patrol depending on where you plan on skiing though, because there could be winch cats (death) or avi bombing (death). 
joe


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