# San Rafael Swell; Black Boxes @ minimum 6/15/10



## tallboy (Apr 20, 2006)

Keep me posted, would love to make it happen this year.


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## Junk Show Tours (Mar 11, 2008)

Sorry to hijack the thread, but is the Little Grand Canyon of the San Rafael good to go in a canoe?


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## rg5hole (May 24, 2007)

book says Little Grand Canyon is class II.


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## thpatterson (Feb 17, 2011)

What book?


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## Nathan (Aug 7, 2004)

Whitewater of the Southern Rockies, be careful the authors are sandbaggers...


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## craporadon (Feb 27, 2006)

Wood is not really an issue. Min is probably 400, but you really want 900 to be able to run the Rock Drop. Below 900 you can't run it and have to portage. So if you see it above 900 get there for sure. I have only seen Rock Drop at 1200 and it was chill but I have heard it gets nasty above 1500. Did the 1st Box at 450 2 yrs ago and it was still worth the trip. 2nd box is quality fun as high as you can get it and worth doing but bring some serious mind alterants for the float out to the Highway


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## Melrose (Nov 2, 2005)

ha, craporadon said exactly what I was thinking regarding the float out. Beautiful scenery the whole way, but the gorgeous paddle out is better when enhanced with drug of choice. Decent camping in between gorges if you don't mind all the cow patties. I remember telling myself to bring lots of drinking water when I returned, the river water was very silty and filled with cow 'runoff'. 
I think putting the non-paddling girlfriends/wives in duckies to run the LGC sounds fun; maybe continuing on through the black boxes while shuttle is run??


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## Cutch (Nov 4, 2003)

Leave it to boaters to dig up a year old thread in anticipation. The title got me all excited! 

When I looked two weeks ago, the snowpack for Utah looked like it was off to a great start. Could be a fantastic year for the Black Boxes.


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## RiverWrangler (Oct 14, 2003)

Nathan, don't forget arrogant.


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## rg5hole (May 24, 2007)

yeah, thread poachers dig up the goods. I jizzed in my pants when I saw this.

here is the deal, Emery Water Conservancy basically runs this, and they have NO intention to appease anyone besides ditch stakeholders. Recreation is unheard of to them and completely OFF THE RADAR. This means the ONLY way this will run is when all the trib reservoirs and JOE'S Valley fill and SPILL.

Once again FILL AND SPILL only. This has happened at minimum flow for only 4 days in the last several years less flash flood situations.

so this guage is my homepage, and when this goes I will let you all know...standby


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## rg5hole (May 24, 2007)

FYI
This is the teacup diagram for the reservoirs. They have lowheads set to fill with over 1000 cfs of diversion capability. So it has to get REALLY HOT and rain or fill and spill.

Emery Water Conservancy District: Teacup Diagram


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## Nathan (Aug 7, 2004)

Sorry I forgot that one Evan, now I feel like I short changed you and Cutch.

On a serious note I have high hopes that this runs this year.


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## Rez072 (Apr 21, 2008)

*309 CFS mid-afternoon 5/17/11*

San Raf is above 300 and rising... It's getting close to being worth it... Anyone interested or have any words of wisdom?


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## jmack (Jun 3, 2004)

FJ- I just checked out the Emery Teacup diagram (plumbing for the whole San Raf basin); Emery Water Conservancy District: Teacup Diagram

Only one of the reservoirs is even close to full. The big one (Joe's Valley) is only at 55%. The Price/San Raf snowpack is at 188% of average and not melting yet. Emery Water Conservancy District: SNOTEL Tabular Report

So, my only guess is that they are dumping a bit of water to make room for runoff. Russ- care to enlighten us?


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## C-dub (Oct 7, 2007)

Jmack is correct. The outflow on Joe's has been higher than inflow for a while now. Emery water is far too proficient at their jobs. Pretty much all of the UT reservoirs have been doing the same. The upside is the snowpack has still not really started to go yet. Been getting two days of warm weather followed by 5 days of cold front. I think the biggest concern out here is the heat getting turned on to full and everything coming down at once.


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## bwest (Mar 13, 2008)

All I could tell ya is that I wouldnt even think about going in there until it hits 500. Wait til its above 700 or higher and youll wanna go back


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## doublet (May 21, 2004)

I heard the CBRFC is forecasting the San Raf will break 2K this year. 

I've never run it below 1200 but it's fun at that level. I bet it's rockin' at 2K.


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## Rez072 (Apr 21, 2008)

242 CFS coming out of Joe's. The gauge is at 438 as of 10:30 am, 5/18/11. Must be run-off inbetween. How far from Joe's are the boxes? Is it raining out there or are there some small creeks contributing?

I think I'm just having trouble seeing a number like 438 & rising...


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## jmack (Jun 3, 2004)

My understanding is the the CRBF is based largely on historic data that predates some or all of the current reservoirs, so it is pretty much useless.

It is raining out there, but I think most of the water is artificial. If you look at the diagram, you can see that several other reservoirs do feed the river. How much though is almost impossible to tell because the gauges for the outflow are in feet, not cfs, and there are lots of irrigation diversions (the whole point of the reservoirs) all over the basin. So basically, I still have no idea.


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## rg5hole (May 24, 2007)

CBRFC has no bearing on the gauge as their data is skewed since the dams are of relatively recent construction. Thus they are compiling 80% of their historical forecasting data from pre dam flows.

I just talked with EWCD (emery water) and here are some facts;
They only have the capability to RELEASE 430 cfs from Joe's
One scope of work for their job is to keep the swell flowing below 1000cfs (otherwise it typically does damage to the waterwork infastructure below)
When joe's spills (they are estimating early june) they hope it to be less than 1000cfs
They are currently releasing 240 cfs and plan to contunue that release till the dam spills.

also, there is about 100-150 adding to the flow from natural tribs at this point. The bump to 450 is from rain that they are getting now, with snow up high. As well, they said that runoff has not started yet.

My guess is that we will hardly ever if at all see a predictable flow of over 1000 cfs into the boxes. (that excludes rain events, etc). That being said I am willing to test out minimum flows in here. Hell I drove to the Gila once, this can't be THAT BAD! lol


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## cadster (May 1, 2005)

The last comparable year to this one was 2005. The snowpack today is 144% of 2005 and 209% of average. Attached is the hydrograph from 2005.


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## rg5hole (May 24, 2007)

good data Cadster however there is no data on how full Joe's was and it appears they did not release for 2 months leading up to that spill like they are doing now.

again their management plan dictates not letting the San Raf get above 1000 cfs.

in other news I hope it does go 3K, you know where I will be!


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## cadster (May 1, 2005)

JV's elevation dropped to 6965' in May 2005 before it began to fill. JV today is 6961'. I attached the elevation graph for 2005.

If you compare the graphs for 2005 of SR flow and JV elevation, there was a peak in the flow before and after the reservoir filled.

You can see in, out, and elevation for JV here:
JOES VLY RES

NOAA's forecast is for the reservoir to only drop a little more.



rg5hole said:


> however there is no data on how full Joe's was and it appears they did not release for 2 months leading up to that spill like they are doing now.


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## rg5hole (May 24, 2007)

I am glad you are not running the water up there Cadster, sounds like we will finally get this gem at some good flows!

actually I have a sneaking suspicion if you were running the water we would have some "recreational flow"


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## craporadon (Feb 27, 2006)

Upper Box is in today at the lowest you would want to go there but on the rise. If Cottonwood comes up a hair or Left hand of Huntington road melts, it's a super worthy weekend or few days from CO for a Class 4 roadtrip on something new and cool scenery.

It Looks like its about to go off to me: http://www.cbrfc.noaa.gov/station/flowplot/flowplot.cgi?jovu1. Getting up to 850, Hell yeah.

If you can hit Cottonwood Creek (called Staraight Canyon in the New Testament for unknown reasons), at anything over 500 it is super fun aqua blue class 4 water in the desert. The perfect run to hit after grovelling in the desert on the boxes.


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## Websta' (Jun 1, 2010)

Not quite,

The 850 that you are seeing is res-inflow, not outflow. We will have to wait for the dam to spill if the boxes are going to go... that wont be for several more weeks.


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## craporadon (Feb 27, 2006)

I just realized that. Bummer. Too bad there's a dam.


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## kennyv (Jan 4, 2009)

The San Rafael @ Green River gauge is showing that it is 546 and going straight up, but that's gotta be from rain and will likely crest and flash out quickly. It's been dumping rain here for days and there's another 60% chance again tomorrow. If you timed it right you might be able to run on the flash from rain, but that's super hard to predict. JV is still releasing around 240. See you out there

kenny


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## rg5hole (May 24, 2007)

the durango and silverton narrow line crew is on lock for this weekend in there...


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## Rez072 (Apr 21, 2008)

*Rally*

I am rallying out there tonight from the Front Range. Anybody care to join? Call me immediately. four one 9 2 zero 5 15 seven seven


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## kennyv (Jan 4, 2009)

You'd better drive fast. The SF @ GR is showing 546 already.


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