# Learning to Oar



## Murky Depths (Jun 21, 2013)

Greetings. New to the site and wanted to get some information about oaring the upper C this weekend. I've owned rafts since 1987 and have paddled numerous rivers throughout Colorado, but I finally broke down and bought a frame and oar set-up for a 14' raft that I own. I have been on numerous trips where friends, etc., have oared, but I have never undertaken the task myself. I'm curious if those that know better than me feel that the upper CO at these low flows is a good place to learn how to oar. I'm looking at Pumphouse to Rancho on Saturday.
Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.
-Murky Depths


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## webstar (May 8, 2008)

I am in a similar situation to you. I have kayaked for a few years and been rafting with a bunch of friends on their boats, but this year I got my first raft-frame-oar rig. The upper C from pumphouse to rancho is the exact run I did for my first trip in my boat. I think it was just a little under 500 cfs when I did it, which makes the hardest rapids pretty calm. The big hole in eye of the needle at higher flows is a big rock that is easy to avoid at these levels. It is bony though, so its good practice to spot rocks just under the surface and try to avoid them. Have fun and good luck... what a great sport to get into!


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

webstar said:


> I am in a similar situation to you. I have kayaked for a few years and been rafting with a bunch of friends on their boats, but this year I got my first raft-frame-oar rig.!


:lol:

Aren't most rafters:
a) people are afraid to kayak whitewater or b) kayakers who have kids? :lol:

I never set foot in a raft until the day I bought my first one. Luckily, I had spent quite a bit of time playing in my grandfather's rowboat, so I at least had an idea of how to run oars on a small boat. Lots of learning-by-making-mistakes.

I bought this book several years later. It covers a lot of good stuff for the new oar boater:
http://www.mountaingear.com/webstor...rCode=979100&gclid=CKXljNDu9bcCFQ9eQgodFX8AnQ

Go for it. Take a good friend who may have had some time on the same stretch in a raft. Don't take family or novices until you've got your technique a bit more dialed in.


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## OldandBitter (Jun 11, 2011)

I learned by following Canyon Man down Browns. I did everything exactly the way he did. My advice is to follow a good man on the oars and do exactly as he does.


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## webstar (May 8, 2008)

mar008609 said:


> My advice is to follow a good man on the oars and do exactly as he does.


seconded. I did this in my friends' boats when they let me and it certainly helped. 

MT4Runner, a combination of the desire for comfort and the ability to get my wife and friends who dont kayak out on the river is what drove the switch. Still kayak short day trips, but beyond that I'm loving the raft!


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## kazak4x4 (May 25, 2009)

mar008609 said:


> I learned by following Canyon Man down Browns. I did everything exactly the way he did. My advice is to follow a good man on the oars and do exactly as he does.


Great advice, I may add is to be humble and listen to everyone's advice and why they do thing. Ask questions about currents, why they pulled and not pushed and any other "stupid" questions. That's how we learn.

I love following old timers down sketchy sections, always fascinates me seeing old dudes out row young dudes.

Some of great examples are Gary Nichols in his canoe and Gary Scovill in his 20 years 18 footer.


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## cataraftgirl (Jun 5, 2009)

I started running whitewater in a 10 ft. Outcast fishing cat. I had friends who took me down Alpine Canyon in that little boat. After running Kahuna & Lunch Counter right side up I was hooked. After that I joined a local whitewater rafting club and learned the ropes.
I also read the book that MT4Runner references above.
Oh....and I've never kayaked. No desire to be upside down in a river. Rafting suits me just fine.


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## BarryDingle (Mar 13, 2008)

First things first...you want to learn how to ROW. Not oar. The oar is your tool for rowing 

And yeah,Pumphouse would be ideal training grounds. Keep an eye on that downstream oar when you're in shallow,rocky water. Those things can knock teeth out


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

webstar said:


> seconded. I did this in my friends' boats when they let me and it certainly helped.
> 
> MT4Runner, a combination of the desire for comfort and the ability to get my wife and friends who dont kayak out on the river is what drove the switch. Still kayak short day trips, but beyond that I'm loving the raft!


I don't disagree, and I'm not a kayak snob. Just an attempt at humor. I have a 156R Aire, a 13.0 Trib, and just added a 14' cat and a Tomcat solo. 

Believe me, I LOVE the fact that I've gotten my wife, my kids, my parents, and my in-laws out on the rivers I love. There's only the slimmest of chances my girls might kayak with me. The rest, never.

I started in a 16' Maravia on some smaller rivers. It didn't give me a ton of action, but it was VERY forgiving of my newbie mistakes.



kazak4x4 said:


> Great advice, I may add is to be humble and listen to everyone's advice and why they do thing. Ask questions about currents, why they pulled and not pushed and any other "stupid" questions. That's how we learn.


It is a blast riding in someone else's boat--paddle or oar. Some will pull and some will push the same spot. Some people ferry a lot, some charge hard, a lot of people mix but in different ways.

I'd rather have fellow rowers than silent passengers, so the opportunity to train a new rower is always welcomed.



kazak4x4 said:


> I love following old timers down sketchy sections, always fascinates me seeing old dudes out row young dudes.


They're not usually tougher, but they are usually smarter. Same goes for several great women boaters I've met.

Rowing is like towing a heavy trailer in busy traffic. Plan ahead, look around, start your moves sooner than later. Don't plan on fast acceleration or sudden braking.


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## spider (Jun 20, 2011)

I put my boat in a pond and made sure the boat was set up right. Take her to a lake and catch some fish while trolling. Getting your muscle memory built up with no current is good practice and will get you a good power stroke when you need it. 45* is a good ferry angle. After that off to the upper c and then to browns. Following seasoned boatmen will help a lot after you get your stroke dialed in. 

And yes we row our oars not oar our oars. Have fun and keep the hairy side up.


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## Murky Depths (Jun 21, 2013)

*Outstanding*

Wow, thanks for the quick responses. All great advice and I will consume as much as I can. 
I have taken the set up to Cherry Creek several times to get a feel for it and I practice scenarios that may occur to get down my rowing technique. I think I have everything feeling comfortable at this point.
I am assuming that the Pumphouse put in will have a plethora of folks in the morning, so I will find the oldest and gnarliest looking gentleman (or woman) and see if I can tag along.
Thanks again.
-Murky


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## ENDOMADNESS (Jun 21, 2005)

here here...old kayaker with kids ! my testosterone slowly leached outta my body with the first child.
Great advice by MT4 and spider. 
1. Plan way ahead to make your move early (this includes keeping an eye on the river/rocks few hundred yards downstream). 
2. And when in must make move situations, the 45 degree ferry angle with pull strokes (your back is way stronger than chest/shoulders). Point the raft at the obstacle and pull upstream at a 45 degree angle.
3. Always enter blind corners on the inside (you can always drift to the outside, but much harder to get back to the inside if that is the clean line).

Have a blast, be friendly and its OK to piss/puke when scouting a serious rapid.


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## upshitscreek (Oct 21, 2007)

if you don't have anyone to show you the basics then this is a good DVD to get.

Let's Get Wet DVD at NRSweb.com

it's all very well presented 101 rowing and safety stuff but essential to know as building blocks to being a solid rower.

personally, i'd stay out of places like browns until your _double_ oar strokes are instinctive moving forwards _and_ backwards, looking over your shoulder/ pulling downstream,ect. just keep it conservative as you are doing with pumphouse for a few trips. there are other easier stretches on the arkansas that would be good step ups when pumphouse is easy and you want to start learning more technical rowing. that's just me though.

it doesn't take long if you put in the time so be patient. i think i went from rowing in circles on the ruby/ horsethief stretch of the colorado to running the middle fork of the salmon without any issues in a few months. just a little patience and a learning curve.


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## Schutzie (Feb 5, 2013)

Training someone to ROW a boat is about like teaching a cat to swim; the best course is to toss them in and stay out of the way, cause they are not going to be happy at first.

Couple of things that you must get right until it's a habit.

First, understand that your power is going backwards (cause, you know, you pull with your back and push with your arms), so a good rule is to point your nose at the trouble; a rock you need to avoid, a big hole, whatever. I know a lot of people push more than pull, but I learned to pull, not push.

Second, you must learn to always, but always, keep your downstream oar out of the water unless you are actually using it, and KNOW there isn't a hard thing under there. You have not lived until your oar squarely hits a hidden rock, and the entire weight of your boat, carried by the current, lands on it. Something will give, and you will certainly not like it. I once broke a frame in half landing below Snaggle tooth, when my oar caught a rock I didn't look for. As someone said before, you can easily loose teeth dragging your downstream oar. I used to hook the oar under my knee; kept it out of the water, made for a nice brace, and was always available. I generally used my upstream oar to turn if I was sideways, and avoided like hell putting my downstream oar in the water if I was perpendicular to the current. 

Third, you will probably set up your oars so that there isn't much room between the handles when you hold the oars horizontal. Learn to row with your thumbs wrapped around the handle, not hooked on the end of it. Even if you have room for both thumbs in there, when the oar handle ends are facing each other, sooner or later you won't have enough room for thumbs. You can break a thumb, but even if you don't break it, it hurts like hell to squash your thumb on an oar handle. Really, teach yourself this, or learn the hard way. Most rookies learned the hard way and they only needed one lesson in "thumbs around the oar dumb ass", but it always made them cuss.

Fourth, get your set up right for you. Lots of advice here and elsewhere, but bottom line is, it has to be comfortable for you. You're going to work your ass off at times, so be comfy.

Fifth, learn to pull with your back and legs. Sounds simple, right? Nope, it takes practice cause it ain't natural rookie. Rowing into the wind on Desolation will teach you quick to get it right, but practice anyway, think "my arms guide my oars, my back PULLS my oars, and my legs stabilize my back so it can pull" I can't explain this in writing, I've always had to show it, but simply your back is a piston, your arms are the connecting rods, and the oars are the crankshaft. Get a rhythm going, and a fluid motion. And, as several old boatmen with shoulder surgeries can tell you; if your joints hurt, you're doing it wrong. 

When I rowed it was usually an overloaded cargo boat and sometimes a big assed pontoon, but in any event, you learn early on how to row efficiently and to always eat your wheaties; it's a lot of work, and generally no matter how tired, or hot, or sweaty you are you got no one to back you up, it's all on you.

And finally, you will learn very fast how to use the current to your advantage; how to turn the boat so the current will help push you the way you want to go, and how to turn into or away from shit, and in the end, that you are along for the ride. I'm convinced rowing has more power than paddling, but it's just you, not 3-7 other people helping, so you have to be efficient. 

It's another story, but after I ran Lava the first time, and a Western Guide gave me 8 beers to celebrate, I put my oars up and promised my self I wasn't touching the oars until we hit camp 16 miles downstream or I drank the beer. Didn't care if I flipped, died, crashed and burned, cause you know, I just ran fucking Lava. And that's what I did. And that boat, completely on it's own, ran each of the half dozen or so rapids all by itself, as good (ok, better) than I would have. That experience taught me that most of the time, we flail away with our oars and make things worse than if we just go with the flow.

Sorry for the long response, hope it helps.


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## Rich (Sep 14, 2006)

^^^Listen to this guy, it sounds like he has done it before once or twice^^^

And Gary Scovill's boat was 20 years old 15 years ago when I ran the GC with him the first time.


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## joecoolives (Jun 17, 2009)

Follow The Bubbles.


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## Captain Tappan (Jun 12, 2013)

ENDOMADNESS said:


> here here...old kayaker with kids ! my testosterone slowly leached outta my body with the first child.
> Great advice by MT4 and spider.
> 1. Plan way ahead to make your move early (this includes keeping an eye on the river/rocks few hundred yards downstream).
> 2. And when in must make move situations, the 45 degree ferry angle with pull strokes (your back is way stronger than chest/shoulders). Point the raft at the obstacle and pull upstream at a 45 degree angle.
> ...


Great advise! Definitely had to pee a lot before rowing through Blossom Bar on the Rogue another tip I would have is while keeping your nose toward danger, while rowing a heavy boat in fast current, a 45 degree angle butt first is the quickest way to move across the river fast... Utilize the current as much as possible.

Have a great trip and good luck!


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## Randaddy (Jun 8, 2007)

BarryDingle said:


> First things first...you want to learn how to ROW. Not oar. The oar is your tool for rowing


Oar is a verb too and the OP used it correctly.


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## cataraftgirl (Jun 5, 2009)

Pull away from danger.....that's how I always remembered it best.
I spent my first few years on the river back ferrying all over the place. Then a seasoned guide told me to start learning to push as well. Soon I had multiple weapons in my arsenal. Next, I had to learn when and where is use these weapons to the greatest advantage. That lesson is an ongoing process. There's always new lessons to be learned on the river. Another tip that a guide gave me early on was about rowing technique. Using my trunk, back, legs, and body weight to row instead of just arms and shoulders. He told me not to bring my elbows too far back to avoid shoulder and elbow problems. That lesson has served me well.
Mainly, just get out there with other folks who are experienced, and willing to teach. Have fun.
KJ


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## SummitSurfer (Jun 23, 2010)

Yep Schutzie is dead on! Upper C is great place to learn and its easy...not rocked science.


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## SROB34 (Dec 29, 2012)

Great info on this post... I am now on trip #10 with my new raft/frame this year, finally starting to get comfortable and getting ready to run a few harder stretches...

Most of those trips have been on the Upper C, running Pumphouse to Radium. Started running it at 800 cfs, all the way down to 380 cfs... Great place to learn to row, and I've been able to help teach a few buddies how to row along the way as well (I gotta be able to fish from the boat too!). 

Eye of the Needle is pretty easy right now, you can backrow and set it up and look at it before you even go through it. It's getting kind of boney through there, so heads up. As a rookie myself, I learned pretty quick to keep that downstream oar out of the water, as I've had it pop out of the oarlock once by me and once by my buddy. Trying to get that spare oar out and ready through a rapid while chasing down your rogue oar is quite the experience... I finally bought some oar tethers if it happens again.

I just bought this book to expand my horizons and get on some new water. 
Colorado rivers & creeks: Gordon Banks: 9780964539907: Amazon.com: Books
Mainly though I've been trying to run water with some of my experienced friends who've really helped teach me along the way.


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## bigben (Oct 3, 2010)

1. if your downstream oar knocks out your front teeth, man up and jam those suckers back in.
2. don't ever turn down a grand canyon invite... wait that might be rule # 1.
3. kayaks are brightly colored so you can't miss 'em. kinda like speed bumps. or bikinis.
4. if you run out of space, beer can be stored in empty groover boxes... try to remember, it's only the can that smells funny.
5. refer back to #2
6. don't listen to randaddy... actually, just don't listen midgets in general.;-)
7. backstroking's for wussies.
8. bubble trails are your friend.
9. don't moon the amtrack. it's not just gross, some think it's bad juju.
10. don't feed the river yeti after midnight.
11. i'm sick of typing, so refer back to 2 and 6.


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## benpetri (Jul 2, 2004)

One thing I've learned about the rowing crowd is that it is important to _look like you know what you're doing_. Actually knowing what you're doing is less important. One secret tip in this regard to learn your knots. I've been amazed to see some boatmen with the snazziest rigs who still tie their bow line off with the most random cluster**** that takes 15 minutes to untie. This is amateurish, though still better the one at tequila beach that forgets to tie up at all and the next thing you know you're chasing downriver after an unmanned boat while everyone in your crew is blitzed. I prefer the "bowline" (the knot) which takes 2 seconds to tie, will never fail, and is easy to untie as long as there isn't too much tension in the line. You do have a bow line, right...?


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## bigben (Oct 3, 2010)

benpetri said:


> This is amateurish, though still better the one at tequila beach that forgets to tie up at all and the next thing you know you're chasing downriver after an unmanned boat while everyone in your crew is blitzed.


ahaha... i see you've met the TL from our last trip!!


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## Kitley (Jun 23, 2013)

Schutzie said:


> And finally, you will learn very fast how to use the current to your advantage; how to turn the boat so the current will help push you the way you want to go, and how to turn into or away from shit, and in the end, that you are along for the ride. I'm convinced rowing has more power than paddling, but it's just you, not 3-7 other people helping, so you have to be efficient.
> 
> It's another story, but after I ran Lava the first time, and a Western Guide gave me 8 beers to celebrate, I put my oars up and promised my self I wasn't touching the oars until we hit camp 16 miles downstream or I drank the beer. Didn't care if I flipped, died, crashed and burned, cause you know, I just ran fucking Lava. And that's what I did. And that boat, completely on it's own, ran each of the half dozen or so rapids all by itself, as good (ok, better) than I would have. That experience taught me that most of the time, we flail away with our oars and make things worse than if we just go with the flow.
> 
> Sorry for the long response, hope it helps.



All the advice he gave you was good, but it's that nugget of wisdom that separates the men from the boys.


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## Brotorboat (Apr 14, 2009)

I've often thought of becoming a golf club...


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## mrkyak (Jul 11, 2005)

Hey I give you a 25 day lesson in running the Grand. Class starts January 15,2014.

Shot me a pm if interested.


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## Schutzie (Feb 5, 2013)

mrkyak said:


> Hey I give you a 25 day lesson in running the Grand. Class starts January 15,2014.
> 
> Shot me a pm if interested.


Excellent opportunity! You can teach him how to row with hypothermia and how "oaring" is a good preventative!


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