# Do you fear you'll never reach your potential?



## fella (Jul 29, 2008)

So,

After four plus years of falling in love with kayaking (and still generally sucking), I'm realizing that I'm advancing in age, yet I'm still so far from where I want to be in the sport. 

Further, I'm realizing that in other sports (skiing, climbing, motorcycling, etc.) I'm hitting that point where I no longer have the balls to push myself to a particularly high level in those activities.

My passion now is with boating, and I hope that this hobby will inspire my travels and lifestyle, as other sports have in the past. Yet I regularly worry that I will not progress to the level necessary to enjoy the classic rivers of the country and the world. Or even to further experience the joy of progression and personal improvement.


Anyone else experiencing/experienced this type of retarded kayaking crisis?
How was it overcome (other than quitting the sport)??


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## mjpowhound (May 5, 2006)

Where are you now and where do you want to be?


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## Nessy (May 25, 2009)

I've been at it for four years and I swam out of my boat yesterday in Golden. The boat went down into the Coors megaplex and I fear it may be lost for good. So humiliating, and a big financial ding, after a lot of work and dedication to the sport. I'm not giving up though, and neither should you. Get back out there on the water and find out what you can do. It's what you've got.


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## FastFXR (May 22, 2012)

Yup...in the same boat. My main problem is simply lack of boating--never enough time combined with a lack of skill (due to lack of time) is setting me back. My investment in this is substantial so I'm not about to back out. Gonna do some more as I can this fall, hit the pools in winter, and try again next summer. If I don't get where I want to be next summer, I'll be having a HUGE sale.


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## blutzski (Mar 31, 2004)

The key to getting awesome at kayaking is to do it before you develop a frontal lobe. After your brain develops an ability to accurately assess risk, you're screwed. 

But really, I find myself at the point that I'm not boating the harder stuff that I use to. But I find myself wanting to still tick off a few runs still, Upper Cherry Creek being the main one. To get back to that level, I know it just takes training like anything else. You just have to boat a lot to get that awareness and be able to take the next step. Find where your weakness is and work on it. One difficult thing with kayaking that I found is that I do have to push beyond my comfort zone to make my normal runs feel comfortable. Like when I need to boat a Class V+ occasionally to make Class V seem manageable. A less threatening way to do that is make your normal run harder. If you're a class IV boater, hit every eddy in a drop that you normally run straight through. Or find a tricky line and stick it. I've also found that the people that progress fastest are not afraid to swim. They sometimes swim more in one season than I have in my entire career. Maybe swim some rapids on purpose if that is what is holding you back. Purposefully jump into big holes and try to get out. If you get out... good hole riding practice. If you don't... valuable swim practice.


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## FastFXR (May 22, 2012)

blutzski said:


> If you get out...



You're not helping.


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## DanOrion (Jun 8, 2004)

The catch to most sports is it takes more practice with age to train your mind. When you're young, you don't question your ability. The older you get, more questions. The cure: kayak constantly. Find a local run and pound it. Get to know every line, boof and rock. It will be huge for your confidence.

Also, I've found ritual is huge for my mental game: walk down to the river, pour a helmet full of water over my head, thank God that I'm in such a beautiful spot, about to have such a fun time, get in my boat, check that everything's tight, splash water in my face, peal out...

Another mental trick is to decide what type of kayaker you want to be each season. For me, that's Class IV, V, when my head space is right. I think it was my third season, I decided to just become a really good Class III kayaker who could catch every eddy in Class III runs. It changed the game, no more pressure to step it up. By the end of that season, I was paddling lots of Class IV and just telling myself it was a handful of Class III moves.

Also, check out William Nealy's books. They have a way of giving you the experience of someone who has boated more than you ever will.


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## 86304 (Apr 15, 2008)

i know i will take a bunch of flaming for this but...

maybe it's time to buy a raft?

you still get to go on rivers (obviously not he same runs as a hardshell can :roll!

just a thought. 

bob


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## Ty Tanner (Mar 27, 2009)

*I have felt your pain!!!*

Spent my younger years riding bulls, racing motocross, and rock climbing. I liked the comment from blutzski that made the reference to get good before developing a frontal lobe. I started kayaking about the age of 48 and almost left the sport after the first two years mostly because I was having a hard time finding people willing to spend time with a newbie on the western slope. The next several years was spent trying to hone skills on class 3 without the help of a mentor. That was very time consuming and developed a potential towards bad paddling habits. I was finally fortunate enough the last two seasons to find some seasoned boaters that would spend the time with me and help develop me into a better paddler. 2013 season was finally the year that I was comfortable dabbling into class 4 runs. My advice is to seek out a seasoned kayaker willing to spend the time with you as a mentor to help develop your skills and confidence level. Hopefully you find someone patient enough to let you come along at your own pace and then knows when to push you up a notch when they see your skills advancing. Hope you get that opportunity as I did.


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## Learch (Jul 12, 2010)

I am a second generation boater. My Dad started kayaking in his late 20s when his friend started taking me rafting. His group was all about the same age, and after 4-5 years they were running the usual Oregon stuff and even some of the harder stuff. 
That group is in their 50's now, and my Dad and his buddy that got us going are still kayaking and rafting. One of the guys in our group wrote the book "Paddling Oregon" 
every once in a while one of the old group will show up for a run here and there. I am 34, almost 35. When I was 15 I bought a used Riken IK from the guy who got us started, and I started going almost every weekend until I graduated high school, and then I slowed down for a year or so. 
Personally I topped out at Class III with the occasional class IV. I've run the Grand Canyon in a snout, I've done a few smaller waterfalls, and I've gotten my ass handed to me a few times. Sometimes I really want to push myself, but I don't find value in pushing all of the time. 
I care for the people I boat with. My wife has been going with me since we were in high school. My kids are going now. I have enough experience that I don't feel unprepared for the rivers I run. I'm a big guy, so as an inflatable kayaker, I always felt I had a lower limit than most kayakers. Not too many people were taking inflatable kayaks down some of the weird flooded creeks I've done either. 
My point is, I'd give some real thought to what you want from this lifestyle. I've settled my mind, I am satisfied with taking my kids on summer low flows, taking inexperienced friends on some rivers, and running some harder stuff when I get the chance. I don't care who's better, I don't miss out on trips because my skill level isn't there, and I almost always have a great time.
If your last trip on the river was fun, then keep going. After all of these years, I've learned that my river running is dynamic. I missed a few trips for 5 years after my son was born, and in the last summer I feel like I've made up for it. Who knows what next year will bring.


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## GoodTimes (Mar 9, 2006)

In the grand scheme...four plus years really isn't that long. I know guys that paddled for 7, 8, 9, even 10 years before they even felt comfortable enough to run their first class V. Stick with it....and like most have said....it's all days in the saddle. Paddle paddle paddle.

I'm in a similar spot...although I've regressed and am wondering if I can get back up to the level I was paddling at 5/6 years ago. My excuse....moved, new job, and a little one. It's excruciatingly HARD to drive by the north fork and know that I'm not ready to paddle it...can I get back to that level??? Cause I sure developed a frontal lobe after having a kid!!

The sound track playing in my head is Bruce Springsteen and "Glory Days" for 16 damn miles every time I head up to Cascade.


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## Learch (Jul 12, 2010)

GoodTimes said:


> In the grand scheme...four plus years really isn't that long. I know guys that paddled for 7, 8, 9, even 10 years before they even felt comfortable enough to run their first class V. Stick with it....and like most have said....it's all days in the saddle. Paddle paddle paddle.
> 
> I'm in a similar spot...although I've regressed and am wondering if I can get back up to the level I was paddling at 5/6 years ago. My excuse....moved, new job, and a little one. It's excruciatingly HARD to drive by the north fork and know that I'm not ready to paddle it...can I get back to that level??? Cause I sure developed a frontal lobe after having a kid!!
> 
> The sound track playing in my head is Bruce Springsteen and "Glory Days" for 16 damn miles every time I head up to Cascade.


 I've driven by that stretch, paddled above and below it, not sure I'd ever want to paddle that lol! One thing too, how often you paddle in a year makes a difference. When Robb was writing his book, it was common for us to paddle 2 rivers in 1 weekend, and it was always a different river also. 4 years of paddling can equate to a lot of paddling or 4-5 trips per year. I used to track how many river miles I did, now I have no idea, but I stopped at about 1200 rms over 10 years ago. Kinda wished I had kept track all of these years...


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## dirtbagkayaker (Oct 29, 2008)

Sometimes when I'm in a rut, I like to hop on a raft. It gives me a different perspective and view point. Sitting up higher allows you to river scout better and look around more in the rapid. Then I start the whole "if I were only in a kayak" thing. I gives me passion for kayaking and lets me settle into the flow better. I spent a whole summer in a raft two years ago and now I feel I'm a better kayaker because of the new river experiences gained from being in a raft. Just a thought. good luck.


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## glenn (May 13, 2009)

How old are you? What is your skill level? Where do you think it should be?

Lots of goods at all levels. If you really have hit a plateau maybe you need to be traveling more to enjoy where you are at more.


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## sarahkonamojo (May 20, 2004)

Ummm... instruction? Everyone could use a fine tuning now and then.


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## mark_vanis (Aug 7, 2013)

will im only 13 but paddle with older people all the time and i have seen many instances like this. one thing that helped my dads friend get on class 4 water was get a really good roll. we would paddle class 3 water and he would practice flipping every were you could think of (that wouldn't kill you). then every time he flipped he rolled back up. after doing that we toke him some class 3+/4+ white water and told him to just paddle. he flipped of course but he used great roll and got up on the first try every time. 

another thing when getting on advanced water is to go some where you can get out of your boat. if you paddle a river with low banks that can walk on then you can scout, walk a rapid, and get convertible with what you are about to paddle. never paddle with people that give you shit for walking a rapid. if that's whats right and you don't feel cumfuterable paddling that rapid then dont. 

after all you only do the sport because its fun, so find ways to paddle that keep it fun :grin:


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## bluesky (Sep 11, 2005)

I paddled for 1/2 a season in 2000, swam a class III rapid and scared the dookus out of myself. Six years later I got back in the water, still scared, and started on class II. A year later I traded my WS Godzilla in for a Jackson Fun and suddenly started enjoying myself. I found the smaller boat so much easier to control that my paddling time stopped being about getting to the takeout alive and in one piece and started being about, duh, the time on the water.

I'm in my early 30s now with two small children and I just don't have interest in doing anything that seems outright dangerous to me anymore. That said, my perception of danger is totally dependent on my skill level and the type of day I'm having. I've run Barrel Springs solo (above Shoshone on the CO) and I've walked it solo, and I felt solid in my actions both times.

My advice would be to evaluate where you are now, where you want to get to, and how fast you want to get there. Look at your equipment and see whether any of it is holding you back. There are lots of cheap used boats out there. Other posters' advice to keep it fun, boat with more experienced paddlers, take a kayaking class, and just get on the water is all great. I'd also recommend trying to get on rivers that have some slightly harder rapids than you're comfortable with and walk those rapids, watching other boaters run 'em. You need a good group to do this, but eventually you'll be in there too. 

I am in Denver now and would love to get out on anything class II and above so let me know if you want a partner. And Ty Tanner, I also come from the western slope and know how ungodly difficult it can be to find paddling partners there... Best of luck and stick with it!


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## jmack (Jun 3, 2004)

The only way to get better at kayaking is to go kayaking. Going kayaking is not the same thing as floating in a kayak. Get in your boat and challenge yourself, whether that means running good lines in class 3 or class V, or going back into the play hole when you are already tired.

If you want to sit on a raft and enjoy scenery, then that's great. Enjoy. But if you have aspirations to get better, you have to work at it. Paddle hard, learn all you can from better boaters, and you can enjoy the scenery on the flatwater paddle out.


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## wasatchbill (Apr 9, 2007)

I've been finding that kayaking is much more of a lifetime sport than some others, rock climbing in particular, for me. I still enjoy climbing, but I spend a lot more time in the boat these days; took up boating again about 8 years ago, after "quitting" in 1985, after a long, cold swim and self-rescue on the Middle Fork of the Salmon. I was, let see- 47 when I got back into kayaking. I keep my progression slow and controlled, careful not to get in over my head; very safety conscious. I like full face helmets and elbow pads, for creeks. My 3rd year back in to it, I was good with easy III, and did that a couple dozen times; next year the local III+ was what I really enjoyed, and the big water IIIs in ID and WY; the next year, some IV-. When the Riverdale Wave was in its prime, that was a huge learning curve for me; playboating on a big safe wave is an awesome learning experience, and helps with a faster combat roll tremendously. Getting a fast roll is really important on harder runs. A hand roll is highly recommended, although mine is still variable. I enjoy IV/IV+ these days, and am not super motivated (or concerned about) class V. Have to keep it fun . I'd rather take a harder line on an easier run, and keep the consequence lower. Travelling a bit shows you the awesome rivers that are out there. 
I also have to say that since there is almost no whitewater around here this summer, I picked up a 14' tour/race SUP, and it is a blast on the local lakes. A 20mph breeze and some 6" chop becomes a whole new challenge, which is super safe compared to whitewater or rock climbing.


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## Phil U. (Feb 7, 2009)

Interesting thread. I frame my greatest potential as being as present as possible and really enjoying the moment and the run I am on. And yes, running the cleanest, sweetest lines I can. I'm not trying to progress anymore. I'm not paddling the class 5 that I could. I've found my sweet spot for now and that is paddling within myself, within my relatively comfortable skill set. 

My feedback would mirror much of what has been said already. Paddle frequently. Take a lesson. Don't get attached to how hard the run is. Paddle stuff that reasonably challenges you. But remember that getting on most any river is a wonderful thing. Appreciate the skills you have and the access they give you...


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## Schutzie (Feb 5, 2013)

Gotta ditto Learch;
If your goal is to be one of those big waterfall, first descent, does your momma know what you did kinda boaters, you have to dedicate yourself to the sport full time, and you know, find a sponsor. And a good medical plan. And, maybe a good divorce lawyer.

If your goal is to continually challenge yourself until you find your absolute, positive, physical and mental limit you're probably gonna need a passport and a handful of Visas. You might start with Siberia or maybe Costa Rica.

If your goal is to enjoy the great outdoors, a beer with friends, and occasionally have the poopie scared out of you you're doing it right.

I had the Jesus moments on the river, and the fun but not so challenging river moments with friends, and the jesus it's cold, and wet, and these people are asshole times. I'll take the good memories with friends over the holy poop! moments anytime.

The point is, if you're out to prove something you're gonna need to dedicate some more effort (and money) to the deal.

If you're out to have a good time, you're doing it mostly right. You just need a few more beers in your cooler. And, maybe some different friends.


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## fella (Jul 29, 2008)

GoodTimes said:


> Stick with it....and like most have said....it's all days in the saddle. Paddle paddle paddle.


 
Thanks for all the contemplative responses.

I guess at the end of the day, what made me broach the subject was that this was my second year going to Baileyfest. My big goal for this season was to really style Bailey at the 'fest. I was thinking that after another season of boating, I would perform much better on the runs. Didn't style 'em.


Moreover, as an analogy: If you are a 5.10 climber, you can travel much of the world and enjoy tens of thousands of incredible routes of all styles.
However, to truly be a 5.10 climber means you have the skills to onsight any 5.10 in any region, even scary, dangerous stuff in unfamiliar territory. 

It seems like if you are a super solid IV+ paddler (not an unattainable goal - I wouldn't think), you can have the same type of kayaking experiences - via travel, seeing unique places, unique challenges. I like to think that I should be at that level. But I know I'm not, and the progression (which itself was tremendously rewarding) has slowed/stopped.

Clearly others have had similar challenges. I guess either you do overcome or you don't. Gotta try to be ok with either outcome.


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## David Spiegel (Sep 26, 2007)

fella- My advice would be to get out there and take lessons. Even most people who are really good paddlers haven't thought that much about their technique or how to communicate that technique effectively to others. 

Everyone says just to paddle a ton and it will come to you, but paddling a ton doesn't do any good if you are enforcing bad habits on the daily. 

So go take some lessons if you don't feel like you are reaching your goal. And not just from your average instructor, go learn from the best. If you are truly committed to improving, save you skrills and go to a place like Otter Bar in Northern Cali where the instructors really know their stuff and can help you take your paddling to the next level. 

In tennis or golf, no one who takes the sport seriously says "I'm just gonna buy some clubs and see what happens if I play a lot." Even the pros take lessons to work on their swing. So why would you take kayaking any less seriously when your life often depends on your bow draw or roll being just that tiny bit better. 

Also- there is class III and IV water everywhere and the rivers are beautiful around the world whether you're paddling class I or V . Many climbers who travel the world and have epic trad adventures in the alpine are climbing 5.7 and 5.8. There is no mandatory skill level that one must reach in order to dedicate their life to an experience.


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## David Spiegel (Sep 26, 2007)

Phil U. said:


> Interesting thread. I frame my greatest potential as being as present as possible and really enjoying the moment and the run I am on. And yes, running the cleanest, sweetest lines I can. I'm not trying to progress anymore. I'm not paddling the class 5 that I could. I've found my sweet spot for now and that is paddling within myself, within my relatively comfortable skill set.
> 
> My feedback would mirror much of what has been said already. Paddle frequently. Take a lesson. Don't get attached to how hard the run is. Paddle stuff that reasonably challenges you. But remember that getting on most any river is a wonderful thing. Appreciate the skills you have and the access they give you...


Should have read this before posting. Agreed.


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## Anchorless (Aug 3, 2010)

A lot of good advice in here. 

Obviously you have to paddle a lot. But you also have to practice your kayaking, and there's a difference there. 

Where I'm at, when I'm paddling a river I can do most Class III+ - IV rivers just fine... taking the standard lines, staying upright (never rolling), and maybe hitting some eddies... but I notice that when I do so I'm not really practicing much and I'm certainly not challenging myself. I wasn't rolling into and out of eddies, practicing my technique. I wasn't paying attention to what paddle strokes I was taking, or keeping my knees engaged. I wasn't taking alternative lines, or hitting as many eddies as I could. I wasn't hitting every hole or rock in the river just to see what would happen. In other words, these rivers became easy because they were comfortable and predictable to me. 

I like the earlier advice about not being afraid to swim. Many of those I started paddling with are paddling North Fork Payette now (I'm not) because they weren't afraid to get on the river and, if it happens, swim. They challenged themselves more on other rivers, and they certainly swam more. I might be a better paddler than them, ability wise... but they blow me away in experience and taking risks, and they paddle harder rivers because of it. 

Playboating has helped me get extremely comfortable in a boat, with my roll, in holes and waves, and with a lot of body technique. Some of these skills can translate to running rivers, but there's also a world of difference in being able to read the river, react quickly, adjust on the fly, etc. 

In short... you have to paddle more, you have to practice kayaking more (work on technique, balance, breathing, etc.), and you have to challenge yourself and take risks in doing so.


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## leif (Jul 11, 2009)

Here's my story: I'm a pretty solid paddler, paddling since 1996, and I've been having these same issues. I'm about to graduate, so big changes are coming, but lately I've been feeling how much school/work cuts into my paddling. I'm getting older, and I'm not at the skill level that I want to be. I worry that I may never get there. I'm improving by inches, but I feel like there are miles left to go.

Sounds the same, right? Well, I currently paddle about 2.5 days per week, and train flatwater about 4 days a week. I can run most runnable rapids that I encounter, and although I don't usually win, I compete in the pro class at freestyle events. The next level that I hope to attain is paddling full time, for a living. I think that really these issues don't ever go away, no matter what level you're at. This has been a really great thread to read through. Pretty much everything I read really resonated, except that thing about trying rafting.

The way you feel about your skill level is actually probably independent of your skill level. If you're not content with where you are, there's a pretty good chance that your attitude will stay as it is while your skills slowly change. I like to think that I've come to terms with this desire, and hopefully I'm using it to motivate myself rather than letting it frustrate me.

So basically, you're not alone. Enjoy what you can.


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## RyanHostetler (Sep 14, 2013)

Anchorless said:


> A lot of good advice in here.
> 
> Obviously you have to paddle a lot. But you also have to practice your kayaking, and there's a difference there...


I am surely the most amateur paddler involved in this thread, although I was, for quite a while, a really dedicated guitar player, and I think my experience with guitar is analogous to kayaking. I spent a great deal of time "playing" my guitar (for nearly ten years) without spending much time beyond my first year or so actually "practicing" my guitar. I eventually had to make a definitive discrepancy between "play" and "practice." I realized after years of playing that I had spent too much time just fooling around with licks and learning songs without really developing myself as a player. I certainly learned a lot and developed as a matter or course, but I really didn't go right after what was important to make myself the best. I was just "playing" around. Eventually, I broke it down, analyzed my style, went back to lessons and pinpointed what I really needed to work on to become better. I had to "practice" instead of "play." Scales, modes and theory took the place of just belting out "Over the Hills and Far Away" for the thrill of it. It was a lot less fun, but my playing developed tremendously. I had to regiment myself so I practiced for quite a while before I allowed myself to play for fun. 
That said, I think that my ten plus years of playing for fun with no direction really hurt my development in the long-run. I have so many bad habits deeply ingrained in my playing that I don't think I will ever be able to stamp them out and replace them. I am just beginning with a kayak and I am going to focus, first and foremost, on developing in the right way so I start out with the best habits... which is somewhat ironic because I really just want to paddle for kicks and I wanted more than anything for a long time to become a rockstar. Oh well. I'm sure I'll have a great time out on the river!


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## Mankypin (Jul 5, 2011)

*You're a badass for makin us 50ish newbs look good!*

Here's the wrong way to progress, but it worked for me. My west slope fiends said "You're 49 Years old, you've got no excuse, here's some gear, let's go".

*Day one:* The Milk Run on the Ark at high water, swim 1/2 mi for eddy.
*Day two:* Billy Creek on the Uncompaghre at high water, swim twice.
* Buy Dry Suit, Full Face Helmet and Elbow Pads*
*Day three:* Gunny Gorge at 2,900 cfs, swim parts of all rapids.
*Day four:* Shoshone at 4,000 cfs, one swim on each of 3 laps.
*Day five:* Go to Ecuador, Quijos class III warm-up at high water (big 4+ really) Swim twice, logged a one mile swim, saved all gear, walked out. The walk of shame there, is a one mile uphill thrash through the jungle in a dry suit. Paddled first Class V, blow the line, combat roll in the meat, (which it turns out is easier than walking through the freakin jungle), go home.

It was a five day program three years ago with some sick Montrose Paddlers that changed my perspective. I was lucky, without the strong Monrovian safety I could never take those chances, repeatedly screw up so badly or get chundered when throwing down in a foreign fucking country. 

Paddle onward my good man! Get your ass in the boat and your mind will follow. I hope to paddle for the rest of my days with the Army of Darkness and guys like you!

Alan


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## TonyM (Apr 17, 2006)

The best part of paddling is that there is always something more to strive for. Don't we all dream of running that river we see pros paddling in the latest/greatest video? Would I like to be the first person to hand paddle the Stikine? Hell yea! Will I ever do it? Unfortunately no. Am I ok with that? Kinda. Progress by inches, don't jump into situations where you know you're going to get destroyed, it will set you back years. Have fun paddling and own your favorite runs, try new lines on them, practice new ferries, boofs and eddies. These things will make you a better paddler and when you step it up on a new run you will be prepared. I am 40 years old and still trying to explore new rivers, find new challenges and become a better paddler. It is the never ending challenge that keeps me interested in paddling. It's the people I meet that keep me coming back to events like Baileyfest, Gore Race, Ect. Paddling is a great way to explore the world and meet great people, except maybe CasperMike, no matter what your skill level.


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## SSJ LLC (Mar 15, 2013)

sarahkonamojo said:


> Ummm... instruction? Everyone could use a fine tuning now and then.


Well said Sarah. We also really enjoyed reading your insights Leif and Tony. Great thread.


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## wasatchbill (Apr 9, 2007)

Mankypin said:


> Here's the wrong way to progress, but it worked for me. My west slope fiends said "You're 49 Years old, you've got no excuse, here's some gear, let's go".
> 
> *Day one:* The Milk Run on the Ark at high water, swim 1/2 mi for eddy.
> *Day two:* Billy Creek on the Uncompaghre at high water, swim twice.
> ...


That is rough, good work! a one mile swim! ugh. That sounds longer than my middle fork swim...


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