# Dog Island burned down



## catwoman

😒


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## yetigonecrazy

whoa. thats some unexpected craziness.

Could have started a big ole forest fire without too much trouble. good reminder to be smart with your fire.....whatever form it takes


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## skipowpow

There should be a dozen or so folks that never get a permit anywhere - ever!


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## buckmanriver

do you have any photos from the burn?


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## lmyers

I don't. It was about a mile upstream from us. In retrospect I wish I would have snapped a few, but it wasn't priority at the time.


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## elkhaven

Sad to hear there are idiots everywhere! 

That happened up here a few years ago - guy was charged criminally and had to pay (will be for the rest of his life) restitution for property loss and fire fighting costs - fire burned homes and ended up in the 15K acre range. His bill is 3-4 million dollars. Very stupid mistake they'll be paying for for A LONG time to come!

Man accused of starting Bear Trap fire charged with felony arson | Crime and Courts | bozemandailychronicle.com


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## pamfitz99

I was at Mee Corner Sat Aug 15 with a large group, and smelled the smoke from the fierce winds that night, wondering who on earth had a campfire at first. Then I hiked downstream on the trail with concern for my large group and saw the fire. Thoughts of leaving crossed my mind, having seen the Mee Mouth fire remains several years ago. Seeing the fire run up the ridge to the opposite direction of our camp, we stayed put but lost a lot of sleep no doubt. 


I did not take pics passing the site Monday after 2 days at Mee Corner. It was devastated. Old 70 year old cottonwoods to all the new ones now no longer providing shade. I spoke to the BLM rangers, seeing the fire fighters still on the fire line, and helicopters dropping water on such a nice site that Dog Island has become still at 10am Monday after the Saturday fire. With the new permit system, 2 individuals have been cited for launching fireworks with further citations/penalties to be determined
 

The fireworks they ignited started a fire that burned the entire island and destroyed an estimated 100 trees - at least 30 acres. 


THINK out there please people.


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## restrac2000

That sucks and it leaves our community with another black-eye. It seems some heavy legal recourse should be in order. I know poachers can have their equipment confiscated which seems like a potentially fair outcome in this case. As well, hunters who commit certain crimes can be banned from obtaining permits and licenses for a period of time; maybe the USFS, BLM and NPS should implement such universal measures when a user commits such gross negligence. Another person in jail does no good and there is only so far a cash award will go to recuperating cost of fire fighting, etc. Punitive measures that make it clear this sort of selfish activity will not be tolerated seems like the least that should happen to discourage activities that harm the land and recreation.

Phillip


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## tteton

Poachers deserve the punishment of losing their license for life.


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## cchines

*Midnight Escape*

We were camping at Split Rock campground, just downstream from Dog Island that night. It was hot and windy, and I had fallen asleep after several hours of trying to get my six year old daughter and two year old nephew to sleep. My wife woke me up around 23:00 to tell me that there was a wildfire she wanted me to look at. Despite the wind direction being in our favor, we were concerned with our distance to the fire (about 1/2 mile) and started to rouse the group from sleep. After watching the fire for a while and discussing our options, we decided that if the wind shifted toward us our camp site would be in peril quickly and that it was time to pack up and be ready to put on the water in the dark.

As we packed up the final pieces of our camp, the wind did shift towards us, and the conditions at our camp site degraded quickly as the fire turned our way. We put on the water around midnight with heavy smoke and ash.

This was my daughter and nephew's first overnight on the river, and one of the first trips at the oars for one member of our party. It was awful watching the fire get into the crowns of those beautiful old cottonwoods, listening to my daughter cry as we floated down the river choking on the smoke, and hearing an inexperienced friend at the oars recount their encounter with a mid-river rock that almost flipped them in the dark of the night.

Everybody makes mistakes, but the disregard to the weather conditions and fire ban by the parties responsible for this fire has me agreeing that the penalties should be severe. 

All that said...it was quite the adventure!


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## openboat

cchines said:


> We were camping at Split Rock campground, just downstream from Dog Island that night. It was hot and windy, and I had fallen asleep after several hours of trying to get my six year old daughter and two year old nephew to sleep. My wife woke me up around 23:00 to tell me that there was a wildfire she wanted me to look at. Despite the wind direction being in our favor, we were concerned with our distance to the fire (about 1/2 mile) and started to rouse the group from sleep. After watching the fire for a while and discussing our options, we decided that if the wind shifted toward us our camp site would be in peril quickly and that it was time to pack up and be ready to put on the water in the dark.
> 
> As we packed up the final pieces of our camp, the wind did shift towards us, and the conditions at our camp site degraded quickly as the fire turned our way. We put on the water around midnight with heavy smoke and ash.
> 
> This was my daughter and nephew's first overnight on the river, and one of the first trips at the oars for one member of our party. It was awful watching the fire get into the crowns of those beautiful old cottonwoods, listening to my daughter cry as we floated down the river choking on the smoke, and hearing an inexperienced friend at the oars recount their encounter with a mid-river rock that almost flipped them in the dark of the night.
> 
> Everybody makes mistakes, but the disregard to the weather conditions and fire ban by the parties responsible for this fire has me agreeing that the penalties should be severe.
> 
> All that said...it was quite the adventure!


So glad to hear you were able to get out successfully and avoid injury. Makes a heck of a story for the rest of your life!


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## T1112

Sounds like a crazy experience.

I agree penalties should be harsh. I often wonder about how serious we are about things in our society. For example drunk driving. If we really wanted to put a stop to it we would have a harsh penalty. I know people who have multiple DWI's and yet they still drive and survived and now still don't think much about it.

If you stop and think about the issue I think most would agree a harsh penalty would help actually stop it. It is like we know it is bad and we want people to stop and think but the penalty speaks otherwise. Drunk drivers kill innocent people. That is unacceptable and no beer or drink out on a night on the town is worth that. If you get caught you should loose your license for the rest of your life end of story. Make it something so harsh people might actually think about it before doing it.

Same with this story. They should loose the ability to ever gain a permit on any river at any time. This is not an accident. A camp stove did not get tipped over starting a fire in an accident. This was clearly a disregard for the law and that should not stand. Make the consequence so severe people actually think that it is not worth the risk.


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## -k-

These situations are tough. I do not know the situation surrounding this fire, but when I hear fireworks I think of adolescent boys who may have not learned the proper respect for fire until now. For some reason it's one of those things that many people do not fully comprehend until they make a mistake (like getting burned as a child, you really don't get it until it happens to you).

When I was a teenager I had friends accidentally start fires, I have friends who's teenage children have accidentally started fires and I know Dewy Bridge burned down as a result of a child setting it on fire. 

Prosecution really needs to be based on the situation and if these are young individuals who made a dumb mistake I don't think they should have to suffer the full wrath of the law for the rest of their lives. Even good kids make these kind of mistakes. They should have to suffer through the public embarrassment and some form of restitution such as community service and probation though. Now if they are over just some idiots without the excuse of youth and no respect for the world around them persecute away.


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## cosmonaught

I was in that party with cchines at Split Rock. They aren't great, but I snapped a few cellphone pics of the fire. We left when the wind shifted and the cottonwoods at the front of Dog Island in this picture went up.


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## snakester

Those are the cottonwoods 2 days prior to burning. As you can see, there were a bunch of trees. This is so sad because shade is such a commodity down there.


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## stuntsheriff

What are their names, these idiots?somebody on here knows who they are. 


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## Andy H.

It sounds like the BLM was on the river that night and likely knows who they are. Their identities will be found by the managing agencies, and there's no need for any vigilante action. On BLM land, it's a Federal offense and I doubt the judge will look kindly of setting off fireworks during a fire ban. If anyone wants to come forward to the agencies about who it was, you can contact the BLM by personal message here.

Right now the idiots are innocent until proven guilty. Anonymous internet heresay shouldn't be the basis for someone's idea of handing out justice.

-AH


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## openboat

Andy H. said:


> It sounds like the BLM was on the river that night and likely knows who they are. Their identities will be found by the managing agencies, and there's no need for any vigilante action. On BLM land, it's a Federal offense and I doubt the judge will look kindly of setting off fireworks during a fire ban. If anyone wants to come forward to the agencies about who it was, you can contact the BLM by personal message here.
> 
> Right now the idiots are innocent until proven guilty. Anonymous internet heresay shouldn't be the basis for someone's idea of handing out justice.
> 
> -AH


Sound observations and advice, Andy.


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## yesimapirate

Andy H. said:


> Right now the idiots are innocent until proven guilty. Anonymous internet heresay shouldn't be the basis for someone's idea of handing out justice.
> 
> -AH


But my pitch fork was already in hand!

Cosmonaught, the photo of the fire is quite impressive. I think it was very wise of your group to pack up shop(albeit in the middle of the night with small kids). 

I get that the identities of the instigators should probably stay private for now, but has anyone confirmed that their party made it out safely?


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## Di

A friend of mine was with the BLM ranger group camped at Black Rocks, down there doing a river cleanup and told me about this. Said the party who started the fire was stopped by the ranger and issued citations. So BLM knows who they are and hopefully will face serious charges. They not only did significant resource damage, but put a lot of people in danger.


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## FrankC

Fughit. Name names. They were apprehended on site and on public property. You don't get any expectation of privacy when you commit a crime like this. 


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## stuntsheriff

curious andy h. how does asking names make me suspect of vigilante action? but I do dearly love old cottonwood trees so . . . .


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## FrankC

Did they write down a name in the register? Any adults in this party should be publically named. if I get caught red handed setting my neigbors house on fire my name will be publically mentioned (as it should be). If they already signed off on their BLM citation this is an admission of guilt. Actually, somebody should be in jail right now.


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## WilliamsCrew

*Dog Island Burn*

We were camped at Mee 2 when the sheriff came to tell us about the fire. He didn't evacuate us, but did tell us to be ready should the fire make a move in our direction as we had to pass it to get out. 

To break a fire ban is selfish enough, but to bring fireworks into the equation is just plain stupid. Juveniles or not, they knowingly broke the law, and their privilege of floating rivers should be rescinded. If you can't respect the land - stay off of it.

Besides, it's not just the land - I've read four other stories of families who had to evacuate in the middle of the night, and/or campers who were afraid for their safety. Want to make a stupid decision that effects your own life? That's your right. When it begins to effect others - it's not OK.

You can view the photos/videos I have here: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/bqwojzzrh10ga87/AADYTsJTLgkiW7raj5h1u9yBa?dl=0

The videos show the helicopter making water dumps. He made at least 30 passes while we were floating by. The train tracks were packed with crews coming in and out, bringing in equipment and supplies. Just some of the additional associated costs outside of the obvious loss of land that should be absorbed by the guilty party as well.


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## restrac2000

Doxxing can be a valid tool in the most extreme situation (i.e. when people with power and money use their privilege to avoid consequences). But these individuals are currently known by relevant officials, have been served paperwork and are involved in due process. It seems fair to allow that process to unfold; as I have previously stated, I sincerely hope they receive significant penalties for the damage and expensive resources their actions required. Until then I do not see any benefit to calling for publicly naming on this forum; we have seen far too many incidents on the internet recently where that information is used for harmful purposes. 

Phillip


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## Andy H.

stuntsheriff said:


> curious andy h. how does asking names make me suspect of vigilante action?


Good point, and I apologize for the assumption. There's just something about seeing your avatar with Burt Reynolds pulling back an arrow about to kill an evil-doer on the river... There's also the possibility that an invitation to get names out in the public could lead to someone deciding it would be an easy way to settle a grudge or just screw with someone totally unrelated to the fire. 

Sure, the real info will be public soon enough, if someone links to an article, or to the cop's website, that's fine. Internet heresay isn't the way to deal with something serious like this.

-AH


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## Plecoptera

Besides, Burt is a southeast sort of *******. Here in the West we have our own code of *******

Pictures & Photos from Hang 'Em High (1968) - IMDb


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## caverdan

I'd like to know the names of those I care not to ever boat with. Sooner or later...the media will make their names public.....be it news....social.....or a bunch of buzzards...


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## Domar Dave

The names of any juveniles will not be released to the public. In fact, juveniles generally cannot be criminally charged in the federal system. The BLM would have to turn over the investigation to local jurisdiction so they can use state law. If the BLM ranger actually issued federal citations, then I assume they were issued to adults in the group. Citations for the fireworks would be a misdemeanor case and only the first step in a wildland fire case. The agency then has the option to file a civil proceeding to collect restitution for the cost of fire suppression and value of resources damaged in the fire. The civil case is usually a much bigger deal in terms of monetary judgment. The down side in this case is that cottonwoods can't be assessed on the value of commercial timber. The BLM may have to make a case for rehabilitation costs to restore the aesthetics.


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## hiphopanonymous

*Timelapse of Wildfire From Mee Canyon*

We were camped in the Mee Canyon campground (I think Mee #4 or #5) and I was excited to shoot a timelapse of the milky way since we were one day past from the new moon, but I ended up getting a timelapse of the wildfire instead. The video is grainy due to the ash/dust that got caked on my lens, so my apologies for that.

Here is a Vimeo link if you want to check it out:

https://vimeo.com/136900215


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## LSB

Nice work Hipho. Thats one of the most BA time lapses I've ever seen


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## openboat

Took me awhile to orient myself with the video, hipho, but that is amazing. Thanks for posting it.


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## mattman

That was a truly amazing video, the kind of stuff you see professionals taking.
Thanks for posting!!


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## cchines

yesimapirate said:


> But my pitch fork was already in hand!
> 
> Cosmonaught, the photo of the fire is quite impressive. I think it was very wise of your group to pack up shop(albeit in the middle of the night with small kids).
> 
> I get that the identities of the instigators should probably stay private for now, but has anyone confirmed that their party made it out safely?


Whether they were responsible for the fire or not, in the end the only thing that matters is that no one was hurt. I think that was the primary concern of our group even as we were packing up our camp and putting on the water that night. Thanks for grounding the conversation pirate, and to answer your question, even the nimrods that started it got out safe.

I'd also like to echo Andy H. and openboat's sentiment that we allow justice to take its course. Based on the update below, from a member of our party, it sounds like there will be plenty of legal ramifications and public shame for the responsible parties, without resorting to trial-by-internet. 

_- My friend at work is friends with the BLM folks at Ruby.. According to them, the fire was set by a boating group full of adults.. She just texted me this: "My friend says the'll be charged for the fire suppression costs: 2 helicopters, 30 firefighters, food, the BLM folks who have to go assess the damage etc. she guesstimates around $100,000. The trip leader and the guy who admitted having the fireworks will be held responsible. Puts quite the serious spin on being the trip leader in the permit." -_


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## restrac2000

Thanks for the update. Glad there are legal consequences in the form of financial restitution. 

Isn't that the 2nd or 3rd human caused fire down there in a decade? Hate to see some of the few remaining cottonwood galleries burn down as they don't seem to be recruiting as well in the post-dam era. 

Glad all are safe.

Phillip


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## SummitSurfer

*Ash and dust storms with wind gust.*

I docked at Dog Island yesterday and took a bunch of pictures of the sad carnage but will post them if someone can briefly tell me the easiest way to post them.
The effects continue to plague campers at Split, Black Rocks and Mee Corner unfortunately as we learned Friday night. As the strong winds came up, we thought it had lit back up, but it wasn't smoke just tons of ash and wind erosion from the aftermath of the fire. It created a heavy ash/dust storm that blew down to our camp at Mee corner.our tent windows were down and we were filled with ash dust all inside the tent.....lesson learned. So if the wind comes up and starts gusting....expect heavy ash up or down river.


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## lmyers

Easiest way to upload them is to click the "post reply" on the bottom left under the last post. Then go to "manage attachments" and choose the files you want.


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## BLM Ruby Horsethief

Though stopping at Dog Island and walking around may be tempting, please remember it is very dangerous to walk around a burn scar. We have had reports of full cottonwoods and branches falling. The ground can still be unstable and hazardous to walk on without proper footwear. Please refrain from stopping at the island and just observe from the river. Stay safe out there!


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## cschmidt1023

Surprised this has not been posted but the asshole who started this fire was a 36 year old man from Breck. 

Breckenridge man accused of igniting fire on Dog Island | GJSentinel.com


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## stuntsheriff

man?


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## SBlue

Incredibly foolish mistake.


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## readNrun

SBlue said:


> Incredibly foolish mistake.


"foolish mistake" is not the phrase I would use because it implies that there was a modicum of sense during the process.


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## Gremlin

After seeing the related posts my wife showed me on Facebook, I would be reserving a one way rental with U-Haul.


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## kneth

*Group resposibility!*

According to the Grand Junction Sentinel, here:
Breckenridge man accused of igniting fire on Dog Island | GJSentinel.com 
the suspect was part of a group of twenty employees from a local condo company that has been very generous to Breckenridge. They were major contributors to our new community center, housing the library and meeting rooms, and just gave 1 million dollars to the Summit Foundation, a group the benefits many Summit County organizations. 
This is a horrible situation. Great company, terrible employees. I feel as though every person on that trip has some responsibility for what happened. Why didn't they stop this guy? They must have all known about the fire ban. Next time you're on a trip, and someone does something really wrong, speak up. Intervene! Same thing in life, speak up! Don't just watch it happen.


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## restrac2000

The bystander effect is a huge concern in group environments. Getting people to confront peers in situations like this has been shown to be effective deterrent but creating that trust and willingness is difficult. I am personally not comfortable indicting an entire group with the limited information we currently have. I have seen how much happens in big groups and how little individuals can know, even in close quarters. 

I definitely support the idea that if you know something that is going down is unsafe or unethical to call it out for prevention. 

Sad that this group is associated with philanthropy. I would hope their values and commitment to their causes are greater then their self-interest in this case.

Phillip


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## erinmcintyre

*Dog Island perpetrator to pay restitution*

Breckenridge man to pay restitution for ruining campground | GJSentinel.com


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## shoenfeld13

How did they come up with $23k as restitution? It doesn't make anyone close to whole again. The economic loss alone from not being able to use the campsite for the next 5 years would add up to this.


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## Jamie D.

from the comments below the links story:



> The “restitution” paid by this selfish idiot only covers the professional costs. He put those lives in danger. The REAL costs were ignored. Trees have indigenous value as a live interacting creature of its environment. Man is finally waking to this value. Basically, at the low end, the REAL VALUE of the destroyed trees at $152/year = $152,000 per tree.(After researching several sites, this amount seemed reasonable) Indigenous value of the trees and shrubs absolutely needed to be taken into consideration for true restitution. Once again our “leaders” have allowed for the destruction of the People’s resources without reasonable compensation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


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## Lebowski

That person must have their math wrong. No way those trees are 1000 years old. Especially if they were cottonwoods.


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## curtis catman

Alright lets really put this in perspective. If a tree is worth 152 bucks a year. There were 168 cottonwoods that were 100 years old. They average life expectancy of said tree is 75 years.


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## crispy

what about the cost of the response, be sure to fold that in. heck scrambling a helo racks up the thousands pretty quickly

I especially love that he and his comrades won the award for “urging employees to seize opportunities that produce positive effects in the community,”


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