# Keep Colorado Wild Pass



## tango (Feb 1, 2006)

Just read about this in the news today. The state park pass will now get bundled with your vehicle registration for only $29 in 2023. Current pass is $80. It's not often that an agency announces that something becomes less expensive. Maybe there's a catch. Says you can opt out of the state parks pass with your vehicle registration if you want. Seems like a good deal. 

Keep Colorado Wild Pass

FAQ


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

tango said:


> Just read about this in the news today. The state park pass will now get bundled with your vehicle registration for only $29 in 2023. Current pass is $80. It's not often that an agency announces that something becomes less expensive. Maybe there's a catch. Says you can opt out of the state parks pass with your vehicle registration if you want. Seems like a good deal.
> 
> Keep Colorado Wild Pass
> 
> FAQ


They have been talking about this for a long time, finally it's here. The catch is, it's tacked onto your registration, and YOU have to opt out, in person, at the DMV, each year the way I understand it. This generates a huge amount of revenue for CPW, at least in the first couple years till people who wouldn't normally buy a parks pass get tired of paying for one, figure it out. Folks like me that own multiple cars / trucks, well it adds up fast, and you can bet your bippi I'll donate my 10 bucks at the fee station for the few times I use CPW facilities. My access to state lands is already handled by my fishing and small game licenses, so am covered there. 

CPW has been underfunded for years, AHRA is the only park that turns a profit, and that's due to the commercial interests that operate there. This has been a problem since before the 2 agencies, CDPOR and Colorado DOW were forced to merge, DOW had money from hunting licenses, especially from out of state hunters, CDPOR had none and was struggling. 

SO, in effect they were forced to merge into one agency, parks raided the coffers of DOW, and now both agencies don't have bupkus with which to manage their respective resources. Hence, make everyone pay, even if they have no intention of ever using any of the facilities, and the more vehicles you have, the more you pay. 

When first proposed, this was a "per vehicle" fee. Trailers are vehicles too, so ya own a few trucks, trailers, and a car, that's a substantial hike to the already userous registration fees. Don't forget, our idiot governor Jaredopolis has just postponed the 2 pct tax the democrats passed on gas, it'll come back as soon as they wish. 

What pisses me off about the whole thing, is you have to physically go to the DMV and wait your turn in line with everyone else to opt out, a pretty onerous thing for the working Joe, as the DMV is only open during business hours, the hours most people work at their own job, so no matter how ya look at it, lise 3 hours of work, and therefore pay to opt out, of pay the tax.. I'd feel a little differently if I could opt out by mail, or online. But as initially proposed, this wasn't the case, and the article you cite says nothing about opting out, other than you can do it.

Rock and a hard place it is.. Don't know if that's still the case, but it was what was initially proposed, I can't see where it would benefit them to make it easy to opt out. 

What really cranks me off about this, is the increase in use, is in large amount due to tourism.. So again, the local folk that live here, subsidize tourisim's impacts on our state, while the businesses and town government reap the rewards in the way of profit and tax dollars, and do what ? Yep, spend it on marketing to attract more tourists, that overrun our small towns, rivers, and state rec areas..

A vicious cycle..


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## kayakfreakus (Mar 3, 2006)

Does seem unusual and actually good? Maybe there is hope, think I will be in with my registration and see how it works.


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

kayakfreakus said:


> Does seem unusual and actually good? Maybe there is hope, think I will be in with my registration and see how it works.


Yeah, the government doing something good for the people. Ummmm, that's never ended well in the past, but who knows, this could be the exception. I hope so..


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## gwheyduke (Jul 3, 2008)

From the Bill itself:


> PERSON REGISTERING A TYPE OF MOTOR VEHICLE LISTED IN SUBSECTION (4)(b)(II) OF THIS SECTION WHO HAS BEEN ASSESSED THE PASS FEE MAY DECLINE TO PURCHASE THE PASS AND NOT PAY THE FEE WHEN MAKING PAYMENT DURING THE MOTOR VEHICLE REGISTRATION PROCESS. NONPAYMENT OF THE PASS FEE DOES NOT AFFECT A PERSON'S ABILITY TO
> REGISTER THE MOTOR VEHICLE. (II) IF A PERSON DECLINES TO PAY THE PASS FEE OR OTHERWISE FAILS TO PAY THE PASS FEE, IT SHALL BE PRESUMED THAT THE PERSON WILL
> DECLINE TO PAY THE PASS FEE IN FUTURE YEARS IN WHICH THE PERSON REGISTERS THE MOTOR VEHICLE, AND THE DIVISION, IN COLLABORATION WITH THE DIVISION OF MOTOR VEHICLES IN THE DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE, SHALL DEVELOP AN OPT-IN PROVISION TO BE DISPLAYED ON ANY SUBSEQUENT NOTIFICATIONS SENT TO THE PERSON REGARDING THAT MOTOR VEHICLE.


I don't see anywhere where you have to spend your hard earned free time standing in line.



> What really cranks me off about this, is the increase in use, is in large amount due to tourism.. So again, the local folk that live here, subsidize tourisim's impacts on our state, while the businesses and town government reap the rewards in the way of profit and tax dollars, and do what ? Yep, spend it on marketing to attract more tourists, that overrun our small towns, rivers, and state rec areas..


I also don't think your increase in usage is driven by tourism so much as the growth in Colorado's population.
From https://cpw.state.co.us/Documents/Research/SocialScience/Trends-Report-July-2020-Final.pdf

"Colorado is the seventh fastest growing state in the country and is projected to reach a population of 8.1 million people by 2050. Over 80% of the growth is expected to occur along the Front Range, an area spanning from Pueblo to Fort Collins." and "Most Coloradans recreate close to home; however, there is an increasing willingness among Coloradans to travel further to engage in outdoor activities."

I live where I can find a job, which is the Front Range, and that means if I want to recreate, especially boat, its driving to the Arkansas Valley, to the Poudre, or to the Upper C.



> Yeah, the government doing something good for the people. Ummmm, that's never ended well in the past, but who knows, this could be the exception. I hope so..


Finally, while they certainly don't get it right all the time, I think people often forget all the wonderful things the government provides. How many times have you looked at snow pack data hosted and collected by the government? How many times have you flushed your toliet and had it taken away and treated in part due to money provided by the government. I mean come on....


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

gwheyduke said:


> From the Bill itself:
> 
> 
> I don't see anywhere where you have to spend your hard earned free time standing in line.


That's nice to see, thanks for doing the research!


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## westwatercuban (May 19, 2021)

I have the conservation plates. Always wished that those plates gave me a parks pass. On top of my donation charge m more for the pass. I use state parks regularly for boating and fishing so I get one ever year. Would have no problem if I just paid the dmv for my specialty plates and that was my pass. Would beat having the stupid green pass keep falling off my windshield and rolling up.


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## Conundrum (Aug 23, 2004)

MNichols said:


> Yeah, the government doing something good for the people. Ummmm, that's never ended well in the past, but who knows, this could be the exception. I hope so..


I hate driving on roads to put-ins.


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## westwatercuban (May 19, 2021)

Conundrum said:


> I hate driving on roads to put-ins.


Quite the conundrum


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## ArgoCat (May 14, 2007)

Yep, hate it that the government bought the put-ins at Dotsero, State Bridge, Two Bridges, Horse Creek, and improved Cottonwood and Lyons Gulch access. Much better if they were in private hands as I am sure that the private landowners would have allowed access for a marginal fee rather than build a river compound, shut it down completely, or charge an exorbitant rate. Of course, the middle Colorado is quite the zoo at times which is why I put in at shitty old Pinball alot. So yeah, maybe he's right.


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

westwatercuban said:


> I have the conservation plates. Always wished that those plates gave me a parks pass. On top of my donation charge m more for the pass. I use state parks regularly for boating and fishing so I get one ever year. Would have no problem if I just paid the dmv for my specialty plates and that was my pass. Would beat having the stupid green pass keep falling off my windshield and rolling up.


I have the Emergency Medical Service Plates on my daily driver as each plate makes a $10 buck donation to the state EMS fund, as well as Firefighter plates on my truck for the same reason. Not really a vanity thing for me, the truck has emergency lights and sirens on it anyway, so there's little doubt as to what it is, and who I am, or what I do.

I think the conservation plates gives money to the habitat fund, much like the $10 buck habitat stamp on my fishing and small game hunting license.

I was concerned that this past fall, there were a couple very large excavators in section 3 of the Arkansas downstream from Salida, I called AHRA to see if they were aware, recently we've had "The new locals" rearrange their stream-banks and such for their benefit, while building their multi million dollar McMansions, I was told by AHRA that it was a habitat building project that benefited the fishery. Was most stoked that something was being done for the fishery, it's Gold Medal trout water as it is, and I do enjoy fishing.

Turns out, it was a privately funded operation, to benefit a group that was building a "fishing lodge", to benefit their operation. Supposedly a consortium of very wealthy attorneys that were intending on operating a high end business out of the huge structure that was being built about 8 miles east of Salida East AHRA site, that apparently will have everything from a world class chef, butlers to help the fishermen on and off with their waders, things like that.

Sorta took all the "nice benefit" out of it for me, just another business opening on the banks of the river. If this tax, gives the state money to do things like improving habitat, then I'm all for it.

I've been in Colorado since 1976, and am very leery of the state, especially when they want to do something, that comes out in a press release, that it'll benefit me...

I hope that this new tax does some good for the resource, we're certainly overrun with tourism, We shall see, but reading the actual language of the bill, I'm encouraged, hesitantly, but still encouraged.


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## 2tomcat2 (May 27, 2012)

To all posters: Thanks for keeping the conversation civil and informed


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## DoStep (Jun 26, 2012)

So do they give you a sticker at the time you pay the fees? 

_...Would beat having the stupid green pass keep falling off my windshield and rolling up._

Ha! And will P&W ever fix the sticker so it stays on the windshield? Mine rolled so tight the scotch tape even peeled off.


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## westwatercuban (May 19, 2021)

DoStep said:


> So do they give you a sticker at the time you pay the fees?
> 
> _...Would beat having the stupid green pass keep falling off my windshield and rolling up._
> 
> Ha! And will P&W ever fix the sticker so it stays on the windshield? Mine rolled so tight the scotch tape even peeled off.


now that’s a good question. I’d assume so? Easiest way to know if someone paid or not. Otherwise you’d need something to either put on the plate or a completely different plate to say you did pay no? Will be interesting to see what they chose. Usually it’s the complete opposite of what is practical, cheaper, and easier. Just wait the lines and time to get threw will now be longer because some lady who works their doesn’t know how to use the p&w machine.

I used packing tape for a little bit 😂 but the adhesive melts off. So I gave up and just let it roll around on the dash.


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## DoStep (Jun 26, 2012)

Don't let it blow out the window!


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

DoStep said:


> So do they give you a sticker at the time you pay the fees?
> 
> _...Would beat having the stupid green pass keep falling off my windshield and rolling up._
> 
> Ha! And will P&W ever fix the sticker so it stays on the windshield? Mine rolled so tight the scotch tape even peeled off.


I renewed the registration for my motor on line this year, they took the $$ right away, and I'm still waiting for this year's sticker to arrive, been a couple months so far.


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## Beeks (Aug 22, 2011)

> I renewed the registration for my motor on line this year, they took the $$ right away, and I'm still waiting for this year's sticker to arrive, been a couple months so far.


You sure? Not supposed to be implemented until next year.


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## westwatercuban (May 19, 2021)

Beeks said:


> You sure? Not supposed to be implemented until next year.


I believe he meant like the registration sticker.


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## Beeks (Aug 22, 2011)

ahhhhhh


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

MNichols said:


> I renewed the registration for my motor on line this year, they took the $$ right away, and I'm still waiting for this year's sticker to arrive, been a couple months so far.





Beeks said:


> ahhhhhh


I meant my outboard motor, for my snout..


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## sporkfromork (Dec 16, 2020)

Sounds like further infringement on my FREEDOMS


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

sporkfromork said:


> Sounds like further infringement on my FREEDOMS


Naah, you lost them years ago...


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## spencerhenry (Jun 21, 2004)

Keep Colorado Wild? Really? 
Colorado is not wild anymore, take the Roaring Fork Valley for example, reservations on wreck.gov for camping, every bit of public land is overrun with hikers, bikers, and dog shit. The elk populations have been dropping for a decade or more, development is going like crazy, the traffic is horrible. 
There are too many people here, and it will get nothing but worse.


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## Easy Tiger (Jun 22, 2016)

spencerhenry said:


> Keep Colorado Wild? Really?
> Colorado is not wild anymore, take the Roaring Fork Valley for example, reservations on wreck.gov for camping, every bit of public land is overrun with hikers, bikers, and dog shit. The elk populations have been dropping for a decade or more, development is going like crazy, the traffic is horrible.
> There are too many people here, and it will get nothing but worse.


This part is very true.


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

Easy Tiger said:


> This part is very true.


Same thing is happening in Chaffee and Fremont counties...


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## westwatercuban (May 19, 2021)

spencerhenry said:


> The elk populations have been dropping for a decade or more


Is there Data on this? I’ve never heard this before.


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## spencerhenry (Jun 21, 2004)

westwatercuban said:


> Is there Data on this? I’ve never heard this before.


Talk to Peter Boyat, the DWM for unit 444. Or the area manager Matt Yamashita, who held his job prior. The elk herd in unit 444 is down about 60% from the high. I don't know the numbers for units 43,47, and 471, but my experience is that that herd is down significantly as well. There have been articles in the Aspen papers in reference to the herd numbers over the last several years.
I used to hunt unit 471, back in the late 90's I'd see 250 to 300 animals in one herd, by 2009 the largest herd I would see was about 40. In 2011, I killed my bull on opening day of archery season, so I spent a lot of time trying to figure out where the 471 herd went, I spent a bit of time in unit 47 where I found very few animals but talked to hunters who had been hunting there for many years, they wondered about going south of hwy 82 to find the animals that had formerly been in 47. We both had the same stories of decrease of animals, with the dates coinciding, but on opposite sides of the river.
I hear the same stories from people who have hunted Avalanche creek for the last 2 decades. The number are down, the quality is down, but the hunting pressure is still there.


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## Andy H. (Oct 13, 2003)

Yeah well, welcome to Chamisaville a couple of decades on...

I recommend you begin starting all your conversations with strangers by saying "Before people like you moved here and ruined it all..."


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## spencerhenry (Jun 21, 2004)

Facts:
Permits are now required in many areas for backpacking, and even day use of the wilderness and trails.
Elk numbers are down massively, with the most likely reason being over use of critical habitat. (mountain bikes)
The state does everything possible to get people to come here.
Traffic is very bad in many parts of the state, and roads are in poor shape.
The state makes little changes every year to get more money out of taxpayers, like the reason for this thread.
Game management in many cases is about revenue, not wildlife. (From CPW employees)

Opinion:
Many people that come here bring their shitty left wing politics with them, and vote for stupid shit like bringing wolves back, or trying to ban bobcat hunting. The over development of some areas of the state has decreased the quality of life for everyone. Overuse of the outdoors has created problems for wildlife, the trails themselves, water quality etc...(probably should be in the above category). The same people who bitch about water levels in lake powell and suggest we remove the dam are the same ones who have a lush lawn, do 15 loads of laundry a week, and otherwise waste water on a grand scale. The ones who proclaim they don't want drilling or pipelines heat their houses with natural gas, or electricity generated by coal, or other fossile fuels, they drive their "fuel efficient" cars at 20mph over the speed limit with a coffin on the roof, thereby diminishing the fuel efficiency. Many want bike trails all over the state, but then ride their bikes on roads and highways. Others want to develop every bit of public land with bike trails to bring yet more people here, then proclaim we have to do something to help the wildlife. People move out into remote areas and then demand trash and ambulance service, they proclaim to love wildlife but encourage their pets to chase wildlife saying stupid things like "my dog just wants to play with that little fawn". Call it moaning, bitching or whatever you want, but the place is nowhere near what it used to be, and it is going to get a lot worse.


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## westwatercuban (May 19, 2021)

spencerhenry said:


> Facts:
> Permits are now required in many areas for backpacking, and even day use of the wilderness and trails.
> Elk numbers are down massively, with the most likely reason being over use of critical habitat. (mountain bikes)
> The state does everything possible to get people to come here.
> ...


DOW would be stronger today if parks didn’t sucker them into a merge. Bringing them both down. Bull I’ll tell you what. I absolutely love going to state parks that my pass and license pays for to see trash and needles everywhere. It’s a win win scenario..


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

spencerhenry said:


> Opinion:
> Many people that come here bring their shitty left wing politics with them, and vote for stupid shit like bringing wolves back, or trying to ban bobcat hunting. The over development of some areas of the state has decreased the quality of life for everyone. Overuse of the outdoors has created problems for wildlife, the trails themselves, water quality etc...(probably should be in the above category). The same people who bitch about water levels in lake powell and suggest we remove the dam are the same ones who have a lush lawn, do 15 loads of laundry a week, and otherwise waste water on a grand scale. The ones who proclaim they don't want drilling or pipelines heat their houses with natural gas, or electricity generated by coal, or other fossile fuels, they drive their "fuel efficient" cars at 20mph over the speed limit with a coffin on the roof, thereby diminishing the fuel efficiency. Many want bike trails all over the state, but then ride their bikes on roads and highways. Others want to develop every bit of public land with bike trails to bring yet more people here, then proclaim we have to do something to help the wildlife. People move out into remote areas and then demand trash and ambulance service, they proclaim to love wildlife but encourage their pets to chase wildlife saying stupid things like "my dog just wants to play with that little fawn". Call it moaning, bitching or whatever you want, but the place is nowhere near what it used to be, and it is going to get a lot worse.


I agree with your opinion completely.. Way more truth than many would admit to what you write..


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## jwburdge (Apr 9, 2014)

Ummm.... It is 2022. the population of the whole world has increased since the good 'ol days. Everywhere is more crowded. Accept it.


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