# Fat and Stiff?



## Mike Harvey (Oct 10, 2003)

do you mean reverse sidecut or rocker? Beacuse very few skis are using reverse sidecut, but tons have rocker. If you liked your Gotama's I would reccomend anything around the same size that Volkl has this year ( I don't know their line that well) but you would crazy not to try a rockered ski. Most skis in that size range like, this year's K2 Seth model have tip and tail rocker with some camber underfoot and regular sidecut. The rocker does not negatively affect skiing on groomers, but it changes skiing in all other types of conditions in a dramatically positive way. Unless you are worried about your Nastar times (which doesn't seem likely since you have been skiing on Gotamas) do not hesitate to go to a rockered ski. My $.02...


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## cuzin (Oct 4, 2007)

Yeah, sure, I meant "rocker" or reverse camber. Whatever that new fangled stuff is. Not worried about Nastar times but would like to be able to still go fast and make turns on groomers without feeling like a total gaper.


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## Mike Harvey (Oct 10, 2003)

cuzin said:


> would like to be able to still go fast and make turns on groomers without feeling like a total gaper.


I don't own any skis without rocker anymore. You can still ski fast on groomers. If you look at K2's line this year even some of their skis that are around 75 under foot have rocker in the tips. It just makes skiing more fun.


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## hartle (May 8, 2006)

the 4frnt VCTS are awsome ill be on my 4 year this year on my pair. 108 under foot stiff but with good pop. id recomend tem to anybody


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## Ken Vanatta (May 29, 2004)

My sights are set upon the new K2 Seths or Side Stash. The Armada JJs make be worth a look, too. Unfortunately, I have yet to part with the coin for either yet. I did just add my kid as an insured driver today. Bye bye cash! Rocker skis may have to wait.


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## catwoman (Jun 22, 2009)

I wouldn't have believed it before a demo, but rocker rocks! Skied a pair of the K2 side stashes last year on demo, and couldn't buy a pair quick enough. Even bought hubby a pair. As I understand it they aren't full rocker, they are considered a "flat" ski - rockered tip, traditional tail. Yes, they are a little more work in flats, but so fun everywhere else (except maybe skining- they are really heavy).


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## Jahve (Oct 31, 2003)

I am not sure if it applies to where you ride and I love rocker for deeeeeep pow but if you ride the BC a ton and have icy or hard pack drop ins or when you cross icy runnels in the spring then you need some form of camber... 

Too much rocker will cause you to loose your edge if you are crossing any type of blue ice or the melt freeze windblown stuff that forms just below cornices.. I got rid of my uber rocker board for cheap when it almost ended me crossing a blue ice runnel and I lost my edge.. Worst part is that once you fall on ice you only have a small part of the ski/board that will be able to slow you down as the tips and tales are useless due to the rocker.. I was able to self arrest on the fall as I hit some soft snow just above a huge cliff that needless to say I did not want any part of..

For all resort skiing and for most of the BC stuff folks get into rocker is great but for big committing lines where you might be forced into a runnel with ice you will want to have something that does not have too much rocker caus you want to be able to hold a edge in these places..


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## cuzin (Oct 4, 2007)

RDNEK said:


> I am not sure if it applies to where you ride and I love rocker for deeeeeep pow but if you ride the BC a ton and have icy or hard pack drop ins or when you cross icy runnels in the spring then you need some form of camber...
> 
> Too much rocker will cause you to loose your edge if you are crossing any type of blue ice or the melt freeze windblown stuff that forms just below cornices.. I got rid of my uber rocker board for cheap when it almost ended me crossing a blue ice runnel and I lost my edge.. Worst part is that once you fall on ice you only have a small part of the ski/board that will be able to slow you down as the tips and tales are useless due to the rocker.. I was able to self arrest on the fall as I hit some soft snow just above a huge cliff that needless to say I did not want any part of..
> 
> For all resort skiing and for most of the BC stuff folks get into rocker is great but for big committing lines where you might be forced into a runnel with ice you will want to have something that does not have too much rocker caus you want to be able to hold a edge in these places..


Any recommendations?


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## possumturd (Jul 13, 2006)

*ski*



cuzin said:


> So at the end of last season, I finally broke my Volkl Gotama's that I've been riding since 2003. I need to replace them, and want some input. I love the 105 underfoot, and don't want to go too much wider, maybe up to 110. I also like a stiff, lively ski and not a wet noodle. I'm not sold on the reverse sidecut skis, either, but it seems like almost every powder ski on the market has that now. So what are my options? What do people like? Is there a reverse sidecut ski that still does well on groomers? Any recommendations on a powder ski that's stiff and still does well in crud?
> 
> Thanks!


I bought my 13 year old a female version of the Seth. It has a mildly rockered tip. She loves them. I also have a friend who is a great skier who has the old conventional Seth and he loves them. He sold a pair of the reverse side cuts.

Beware though if you like Volkl you may find the K2 too soft.

I don't like the K2 or Volkl. Volkl feels dead to me and the K2 Seth was to heavy and soft.

I like the Elan mid and fats. I ski a triple 8 but all their fat stuff gets great reviews. If you can get a demo you should try a pair. Elan uses a woodcore sandwiched between 2 sheets of Titanium and then aluminum top sheet. The triple 8 (88 underfoot) is light but carves like a champ on hardpack and can handle speed without getting squirrelly. The tails are usually not as wide so the ski will release out of a turn a little better. Great in the trees.

I been wanting to try the Blizzard line but they are hard to find and expensive. But everybody goes on about them. By looking at them they are obviously well made with expensive material.

I have spent a fair amount fo $$ demoing skies. I have tried a bunch and the 2 lines I like the best are ELAN and Dynastar. I demoed one of there legend series at Taos one year when they had near a 100 inch base. Those skies took me to new level of skiing and I would have bought a pair on the spot if I could have found them. The 2 other guys I was with bought a pair after just watching me ski on them. LOL!

This Elan is 110 under foot and has a rocker. I really would like to try these babies in Highlands Bowl.


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## Jensjustduckie (Jun 29, 2007)

Check out Icelantic boards, they have some progressive pow designs and tend to be a little cheaper than the larger brands. I have Shamans which float me through pow, rip the trees and are even fun on groomers, they are literally the ONLY piece of sporting equipment I stare at and dream about in the off season.


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## blutzski (Mar 31, 2004)

I've got the Gotamas from about the same time period (squared off tail, flat black, zero camber?) and think they are one of the best skis ever made. The newer version from a few years ago (round tail, cambered) are less stiff and not the rocket that the older goats are. I've demoed the newest Gotama with the ELP rocker and hated it for teleing. I could probably tolerate it for alpining but figured what is the point of full rocker with only 105 underfoot. I understand that the ELP profile works fine if the ski is on edge, but who wants to be turning all the time? The Goat was made for straight lining. What I loved about that ski was the bombproof stability in all conditions at high speed. That's gone with the ELP rocker. I mainly tele now but still take out my old Goats when I want to alpine big super G turns in cut up crud down Peak 7. 

For teleing I now have the Volkl Bridges (last year's cambered model) for skiing at the area and absolutely love them. They feel like a mini Gotama while being lighter and more maneuverable for teleing. For back country I have the K2 Coombacks with rockered tip. I absolutely love them for untracked powder turns but they absolutely suck on hardpack. I hear the K2 Sidestashes are better, but I went with the Coombacks for weight and they rock for what I got them for... floaty powder days in the backcountry. 

If you like Volkl, it is going to be difficult to find another brand to replace them. Volkls ski like, well volkls. Unfortunately, all their freeride skis now have ELP which I tried and hated (at least for teleing). I'm not sure what to replace my Goats and Bridges with when they wear out. I hear Armada (made in the Volkl factory) are worth checking out.


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## cuzin (Oct 4, 2007)

blutzski said:


> What I loved about that ski was the bombproof stability in all conditions at high speed.


Precisely. This is what I am looking for in a new ski. Anyone?


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## CO.rafter (Oct 10, 2010)

Karhu team 100, if you can find them... Or Icelantic Nomads, the have a soft version and stiff version.


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## possumturd (Jul 13, 2006)

cuzin said:


> Precisely. This is what I am looking for in a new ski. Anyone?


Octobrt 2010 issue of SKI magazine rates 9 deep snow skies. It's just short paragraphs on each but it's info. There is also a couple pages on construction and ski anatomy and trends that can prove helpful.

The bottom line is you need to demo,demo,demo.

For instance The SKI article rates the Rossi s7 as the best ski. I just read another online article that deemed the S7 a disappointment. One mans junk is another's gold


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## Eskido (Jul 18, 2008)

Ski Logic Howitzer


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## possumturd (Jul 13, 2006)

*epic*



cuzin said:


> Precisely. This is what I am looking for in a new ski. Anyone?



epic ski is a decent place for reviews as well. Much better information than: Buy this ski because I have it. Here is a review of the Elan Apex for example.


2011 Elan Apex 177cm - EpicSki Community

and the lovem hatem banter on the Shamans

http://www.epicski.com/forum/thread/76179/icelantic-shaman-184


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## caseybailey (Mar 11, 2008)

Goode skis...either the Carbon 116, Scoop 142, STR8 or the Monstro. 

This is what I would be buying if I had the magic money wand to wave around. (For me personally it would be the Carbon 116's, but I must say that the other three are some of the craziest skis I've ever seen.)


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## cuzin (Oct 4, 2007)

Damn - those Goode's look crazy. Definitely don't have the magic money wand, though. I'd like to just see the STR8 in person.


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## catfishjon (Jan 27, 2007)

cuzin said:


> So at the end of last season, I finally broke my Volkl Gotama's that I've been riding since 2003. I need to replace them, and want some input. I love the 105 underfoot, and don't want to go too much wider, maybe up to 110. I also like a stiff, lively ski and not a wet noodle. I'm not sold on the reverse sidecut skis, either, but it seems like almost every powder ski on the market has that now. So what are my options? What do people like? Is there a reverse sidecut ski that still does well on groomers? Any recommendations on a powder ski that's stiff and still does well in crud?
> 
> Thanks!


Lots of people have said K2 Seths. They are 118 under foot so I wouldnt look at those. And if you want bombproof, K2 isnt the way to go. They fall apart after a season or two. It sounds like you would like a ski with early rise tip and tail as opposed to rocker. Here are some skis that you may like.

4frnt VCT Turbo 
Fatypus D-Sender 
Rossignol S6 
Volkl Gotama


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## Jacksonholekayak (Dec 15, 2008)

Check out the Blizzard Titan Argos. 105 under foot with similar side cut to the old Gotama but a little bit of "utility rocker". They rip on hard pack, crud and powder! The Blizzard interchangeable binding is a cool system. They come with a plate you can mount any binding on and slide in and out without putting more holes in you skis. You can mount different bindings on the plates so the one pair of skis can double as AT, Tele, Alpine, ect. It takes about 2 minutes to change out the plate (one screw), but doesn't effect your skis at all! I also like the Answer (110 under foot), but it is a little softer ski.


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## Jacksonholekayak (Dec 15, 2008)

Blizzard Skis – Race - Freeride – Womens – Carve – Fat Skis – blizzardsportusa.com


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## BillyD (Oct 10, 2003)

Minus the choice of going with reverse camber or raised tip, the ski you describe is the Dynastar XXL. 109 under foot and one of the most stable hard charging skis of its size. If you are truly looking for a crud busting ski, this is it. Not to say there aren't others out there, but this is one of the best at what it does, in my mind.


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## cuzin (Oct 4, 2007)

BillyD said:


> Minus the choice of going with reverse camber or raised tip, the ski you describe is the Dynastar XXL. 109 under foot and one of the most stable hard charging skis of its size. If you are truly looking for a crud busting ski, this is it. Not to say there aren't others out there, but this is one of the best at what it does, in my mind.


Do you ski these? Any thoughts on 187 v. 194? I like what I read about these, and I'm right on the line between the two sizes, but 194 sounds an awful lot like my old DH boards!


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## BillyD (Oct 10, 2003)

I like and ski on the 194, but it is definitely a lot of ski. You can turn it in the trees, but you want to stay on top of it. It is good in the powder, but I am sure not nearly as good as a reverse camber in the deep stuff. I am think the 194 has more metal in it than the 187 (I may be confusing it for the difference of the 187 and 194 Legend Pro though). But the 187 should be a bit friendlier, but still a pretty stout ski. The last couple of years my general rule was 3 or more inches and up to a day after I would ski these. More hardpack and ai would ski the Legend Pros.

I will be getting rid of a pair of 194's pretty soon here if you are interested, but not trying to sell you anything. Plus I think you could get either size under $200 on TGR.


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## ~Bank (Jul 31, 2010)

*The Dynastar Legend Pro XXL 194*









The Dynastar Legend skis are built in the race room and are designed to drop some of the biggest cliffs found in the world. These Skis are bommer. They stand up to beatings that break most other skis. They can be charged @ full speed with confidence in all conditions...I am 5'11'' and 185, I have logged many hundreds of days on these and previous models. I have destroyed a few pairs with complete satisfaction; They are great landing pads. You must get your legs in shape for the extra weight (additional strength) & stiffness, you will have no problem touring all day in the trees, or the extra size will not stop you from skiing groomers and ice as fast as you can. If you don't like to go fast, and would rather make lots of turns the 41 meter turning radius is not for you.


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## cuzin (Oct 4, 2007)

Just pulled the trigger on XXL 187's with Barons. Oh holy hell, they're going to be sick. I was kind of tempted by the K2 Sidestash and Icelantic Nomads, but nothing seems to have the full on burliness of these things. Let it snow!!!!!!


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## atom (Jan 14, 2004)

*These are good*

Great ski and a smoking deal for a rockered ski
Discoutn Skis | Maven 189 | Powder


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