# Doing Middle Fork Salmon at low flow



## Mcgreyger (Aug 15, 2011)

Has anyone done the Middle Fork from Boundary Creek at 700-800 cfs in a SB raft? I have a launch early Sept. and it could still be above 900 but Murphy says to expect the worst. We plan to go super light, as in back pack weight only. No cooler, no stove, no dry boxes, pump drinking water etc. I am guessing the USFS still requires a fire pan, shovel and bucket even though we don’t plan to have a fire, so we will share the USFS essentials between four rafts. My set up is a 156 Achilles with oars, three adults (the two adults using paddles in the front). I do plan to take a couple extra blades. Any advice or hints would be greatly appreciated. (a cooler, dry box , table and chairs could make all the difference-say another 75-100 lbs)


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## carvedog (May 11, 2005)

Fully loaded off the top for 8 days with two adults a dog, full cooler, case of beer, fifth of crown and a bottle of ibu at 450 cfs in a 17 foot Williwaw 2 as a one boat float. Oh yeah we took the boom box too. Nothing like listening to the Dead or U2 while you are catching fat cutthroat. 

Not like we didn't get stuck in a few places, but it is still awesomely good fun. 

CAVEAT: I have seen 'experienced' boaters get their ass handed to them at these levels though. If you haven't run low, technical water it can be a wakeup. 
Must run soft boat. Must not fight river. Must work with river. Go slow to start. Take as long as you can for your group size. Take a pin kit. 

I personally don't like having extra paddlers flailing away on my boat. It's all finesse and timing, but who knows it might work. 

You know we are having a great water year up here right? You've got four rafts and you don't want to bring a cooler? Who has been scaring you with horror stories?
Good luck.


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## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

What level is that (in feet, as we refer to the MF)? We did 1.78' from the top last year. Definitely NOT backpacking style, but were very careful in what we brought along (both paco's came, but not one single beverage - keep in mind we don't drink so it wasn't a major sacrifice). Don't listen to CD, it was a pain in the ass! I don't think I'd do it again at level with the raft (although I'm going in 10 days but it's going to be 2.1), I would in a heartbeat with my solo cat. Our raft comes with a passenger and 2 dogs, and I think the hardest thing was being worried about the dogs as we spun/bounced/careened through rapids and often the flats were the hardest. They actually did great, but I was stressed because of it. I think I worked too hard also, but it sure is hard to tell which rock is going to cause you to pause. 

Why backpacking style? I say go for it, and don't skimp too much, you don't need to go that light. Bring some stuff to be comfy, have fun, and eat a better than dehydrated. Shoot, I did a Class V multi day and wouldn't even do dehydrated for that. Yuk.

303 the bottom of your boat before you go. Bring an extra extra oar. As CD has said, the rule is "spin to win". You'll have a blast. At that level, NO ONE will be around and it will be glorious. Bring a freaking chair!


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## lyhfamily (May 13, 2009)

I have half a dozen trips under 2' (860 cfs) as low as 1.56. One was backpack light but more importantly, as mentioned in other posts, experience is crucial. Not only handling a boat, but reading the water. Size of boat, passenger or solo also weighs in. I have never run a boat solo at that level (had a passenger and gear on each trip). I believe my recommended cutoff would probably be 1.8 or so for folks not sure of the river. Depending on your launch date, you may see levels at about 2' which would be awesome for September. Plan on cold nights, comfortable days. There are a number of places to get water along the way to eliminate having to filter all of it. Boundary may be shut off so don't plan on water there.

I have seen, and used two scenario's as well - certainly 303 your boat, even after launch day. I have seen boaters keep their boat's fairly stiff, and others run them soft. I think it is all preference. 

Most will forgo the top section and fly into Indian creek although the top section is my favorite (until I get to the middle section, then bottom section, which then become my favorite!).

Sulphur slide and powerhouse can be tough at the lower levels. Some shallow sections below trail flats and Indian creek can cause some difficulties as well. 

Be sure to take a camera as the river is spectacular this time of year and (maybe because every side stream brings more water) each tributary seems much more scenic than the last.

I could provide additional information offline should you request it. I may have some video of low water trips.

Lanny
[email protected]


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## ArgoCat (May 14, 2007)

*MF @ 1.9*

We launched at Boundary at 1.9 ft last year and got off seven days later at 1.77 ft. We had a small boat R2 as the lead and look for low water lines. Quick and nimble, it could change directions quickly to hit the most favorable line for gear boats, or point to a more favorable line. It worked out quite well and the river has more than enough gradient, so they didn't have to paddle a ton to keep the lighter boat moving. We definately didn't go backpack style. 14 footer and a 13 footer in addition to the R2 rig with the normal load for a 7 day desert float trip. Of course it's not the desert, so you can filter most of your water. We actually only brought one 5 gallon container. 

It was the first trip for all of us, but we live in Colorado, so we were all familiar with low water boating. Not to say that we didn't get stuck a few times, especially on the first two days. I would agree that Sulpher Slide is tight and the Chutes seemed to be a bit tricky as well. That said, find the flow, let it take you over the shallows, and at times it is better to just aim at the small rock, hit it straight on, and rumble over it than run away and broadside the bigger rock. The fishing is absolutely incredible at low flows. The pools after Pistol Creek rapid look like an aquarium.

Go for it, bring a pin kit and know how to use it (of course, hopefully you won't have to), and have fun.


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## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

Boundary is going to be staffed through Sep 3 this year. 

Chutes, good lord that was a wild ride!


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## Riverboat Works (Apr 15, 2009)

I’ve done it under 2’ twice. One time at 1.9’ solo in a 12’er. We put in at Boundary and flew most of the weight into Indian Creek. Did not go back pack style. We had a couple of 14’ and one 16’ rafts with passengers that got stuck a lot on the top part. I had no problem solo in the 12’. It was a blast, had a great trip. Small boats are the way to go if you’ve got them. 
Last year we did a 1.7’ trip with Jack from Jack’s Plastics. We had 12 people in 11 small Jack’s boats. Cutthroats, Pack cats, and one small Royal Flush 1222 that I took with my wife and one of my custom frames. We were the only boat with two people. Several of the solo boaters were very inexperienced and although we had some swimmers and many people got stuck in the upper section, we had a great time and no serious swims or pins. We did no go back pack style, everybody brought a chair, we had roll up tables, stoves, coolers with great food, etc. etc.
As I recall the “Cutes” was the most troublesome rapid, and I know we had swimmers in lower “Power House. Most of the swims and pins were in the upper section.
The reason The Middle Fork is rated in feet is because it is small with low cfs at the top and then grows to be 2 or 3+ times the size at the end.
Have a great trip, take small boats if you’ve got them, and take you chair and cooler. This is my favorite river in the lower USA.


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## SimpleMan (Dec 17, 2009)

Folks were feeding me the same BS horror stories last year for my September launch on the MFS. We took 60 beers instead of 120 and it was a mistake. It was under 800 and we never got stuck. We were all kicking ourselves that we were so concerned about weight. Why not let me come, I'll bring my boat and carry all your heavy stuff. I've run it before, am charming and cute. 

Eric 970-222-7178


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## Mcgreyger (Aug 15, 2011)

Thanks to all the responses. Although I’ve read the forums for the past year, I had just never registered until yesterday. What a warm welcome from everyone. If the permit was in my name I would invite all of you. (Seriously) I’m just a mutual friend of the actual owner of the permit. Being in Utah we get a lot of low water runs, just not fast, low water. I am really looking forward to this trip. Thanks again to everyone.


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## lll100 (May 11, 2011)

At 1.7 ft on a launch date of Sept 20th, we opted to fly in 600lbs of gear to Indian Creek but launched at Boundary Creek. I believe it was $180 out of McCall, ID. Had a 16 ft Achilles bucket boat and 2 IKs. Got stuck here and there. Had a blast. Broke/chipped oar blades. Think shallow strokes. Never saw another group on the river.


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## carvedog (May 11, 2005)

SimpleMan said:


> Folks were feeding me the same BS horror stories last year for my September launch on the MFS. We took 60 beers instead of 120 and it was a mistake. It was under 800 and we never got stuck. We were all kicking ourselves that we were so concerned about weight. Why not let me come, I'll bring my boat and carry all your heavy stuff. I've run it before, am charming and cute.
> 
> Eric 970-222-7178


i hope I did not feed you those horror stories. I have seen it go both ways though. all depends on the patience, persistence and willingness to spin to win. 

If you think the chutes sucks at 1.7 try it at 1.4. And above the Chutes is one of the worst at low, low. I call it the Pre-Chutes Mange. Starts to come into play below about 1.65 to 1.6.

Low, low water on the Middle Fork is a bit like monster bumps above untracked pow. FWIW there will be no low, low this year.


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## headtrip (Feb 1, 2011)

The MFS is fine at below 2ft, IF you are used to low water boating. I've done a 1.8, 1.5 and some others in that general flow in my 14 cat, and 14sb. I may not bring the giant kitchen and all the bullshit, but I certainly dont pack light either.....

A class 3 boater with low water, rocky river experience will likely do better than a class V boater who's experience is all on high volume rivers. You will get stuck and be on the sticks, but it's still a hoot.

If you are used to CO and UT low water trips you'll likely be just fine. The ID folks get spoiled by good water most of the year 

Take a bunch of beers, leave the set of DOs andonly take 1. 

Have fun.


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## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

headtrip said:


> A class 3 boater with low water, rocky river experience will likely do better than a class V boater who's experience is all on high volume rivers. You will get stuck and be on the sticks, but it's still a hoot.


Stupid statement of the day, WTF?


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## headtrip (Feb 1, 2011)

all true..... rock dodging and low water boating is a different type of boating. You made a point to make it known that you boat class V, and yet found a low water MFS trip in a raft to be nearly unbearable....

low water technical class 3/4 is a lot different than a straight down the middle ride the NFP. Maybe not as consequencial, but still difficult in different ways.


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## slamkal (Apr 8, 2009)

I somehow find a way to make all rivers look like low water boating


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## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

headtrip said:


> all true.....


I'm glad you agree your statement was stupid. For your information, there is very little "big water" Class V, really actually none that I know of in my neck of the woods, or at least that which I have experienced. It's rather funny, because I joking called 1.78' on the MF "slow motion class V" last year, because of the need to keep moving and constant maneuvering above Indian. This is typical of Class V, however there was no power in the MF so it was kind of a joke. It was completely easy technicall/skill-wise, however it was a lot of work, very tiring, and the acute tendonitis that developed in my wrist a month later left me with a bad taste. Did I mention I was a bit stressed about our dogs getting tossed out of the boat from the bumping and banging? I suppose I could blame the tendonitis on the 3 days I spent on the North Fork of Payette immediately after 7 days on the MF (and I've never seen a run "straight down the middle" there, stupid statement #2- have you seen those holes?!?). But that wasn't nearly as physically tiring, and it isn't big water either (1400 cfs). Most people with Class V experience have spent plenty of time running Class II, Class III, Class IV, etc, both high volume and low volume. To insinuate, or blatantly state that any Class V boater doesn't have low volume, lower class skills, is stoooopid. Hence the stupid statement statement.

Anyways, can't wait to get back on the low volume MF in 1 week! Yahoo! We're going to take a few more luxuries this year (BIG tent and beverages), as the water is higher (thank god for my wrist). The upside is the hubby will get to row more too. Whew, can't wait to test myself of low volume Class III....

And edit- let me make a POINT to say that I didn't bring a chair on the aforementioned multiday Class V, and I will never make that mistake again. However we recently found ourselves needing a new camp chair, and I sprung for the extra $15 to get the aluminum model specifically for repeats of that trip. My point is bring a real chair!


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## Rich (Sep 14, 2006)

lhowemt said:


> Anyways, can't wait to get back on the low volume MF in 1 week! Yahoo! We're going to take a few more luxuries this year (BIG tent and beverages), as the water is higher (thank god for my wrist). The upside is the hubby will get to row more too. Whew, can't wait to test myself of low volume Class III....
> 
> And edit- let me make a POINT to say that I didn't bring a chair on the *aforementioned multiday Class V,* and I will never make that mistake again. However we recently found ourselves needing a new camp chair, and I sprung for the extra $15 to get the aluminum model specifically for repeats of that trip. My point is bring a real chair!


Laura, 
Have a great time on the MFS, if you find a good class 3 boater to follow, I'm sure you will not have a problem

Curious about the multiday Class V. Was it EF of the SFS? 
How many days? what level?


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## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

5 miles of the EFSF, then the SFS. I think it was 4.2 or 4.1, but a "big" one based on observations of others that have done it many times. Talk about a hoot, can't wait for next year! I thought I was going to miss it because we had some flooding at our house and couldn't do the normal 4th of July thing. Lo and behold it was too high for that weekend, and we have 15 cats run it the 3rd weekend in July. It was amazing. One friend had told me that river was "the reason why you boat", and I'd say that's pretty close to the truth, if not the case. 3 days total then a run home on the Lochsa. Had hoped golden would be in, but it dropped like a rock and was done for the year. Bummer I missed it.

Yeah, I'll follow Ralph again this year down the MF, he's got lots of low water MF experience (hundreds). Wait, except he's an accomplished Class V boater so what the heck kind of Class III skills does he have.


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## Avatard (Apr 29, 2011)

Hey Laura, 

I'll join your group if you need someone with more Class III experience. Heck, I'll even lead it for you just to be safe.

I know you Class V rowers all have problems reading rivers because it seems you are always heading into the most radical portions of the river, and can never seem to keep your boats upright ....


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## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

Avatard said:


> Hey Laura,
> 
> I'll join your group if you need someone with more Class III experience. Heck, I'll even lead it for you just to be safe.
> 
> I know you Class V rowers all have problems reading rivers because it seems you are always heading into the most radical portions of the river, and can never seem to keep your boats upright ....


You mean like this?

Flip in Initiation on Vimeo


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## slamkal (Apr 8, 2009)

Ok. Now pull the plug so it drains down to 1.8 feet and try and flip that boat. A class 3 boater like myself has the skilz!!


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## funrivers (May 14, 2008)

lhowemt said:


> Stupid statement of the day, WTF?


Someone is awfully pumped up about her class five swim! Sounds very sophomorically jaded. Hope you grow out of this phase Laura. It’s tiring. Maybe you could give us all a break and mature a bit.


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## headtrip (Feb 1, 2011)

Either way the MFS at low water is a hoot, and should not really bother a solid class 4/5 boater....

I've done the NFP, and yes it is a scary ride and there are some truly impressive holes., one that I find less and less alluring as I get older. With my old elbows and wrists I think the NFP in my cat is easier on my body that a low water MFS trip in my loaded down raft. Of course the MFS is a lot easier mentally. 

Good work on the EFSF, I did the SFS a couple years ago at 4.5 and it was really one of the best trips I have ever done, had everything that a boater could want in a river.

Interesting the interwebs bring out the egos and ugliness of people sometimes (myself included) I remember when I started boating that there were few boaters, and we all were family. Today it seems like everyone has some chip on their shoulder. I remember when I got my fist raft that I wasn't worried about what cooler, oars, etc to outfit it with, I was more concerned about whether that new fangled SB floor would actually work....

You guys enjoy the armchair boating, this old man would rather sit around a riverside fire and talk about boating with people I know and trust....


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## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

Headtrip I wouldn't take this all too seriously, remember most of this is just people distracting themselves from work. Throw in the inevitable misunderstanding (it really is impossible to infer meaning and easy to misread it) in e-chat, and things go downhill fast. Look what joy a simple statement brings me, that they should never leave behind a real chair and I shared my recent experience when I realized how important that one comfort is (if it's possible to bring it on CV, then I see no reason NOT to bring on on low water MF). Some can't help themselves, the worst comes out. It happens to most people, or at least it can seem that way to others even when not intentioned. Then when we meet in person we do just what you say, sit around the fire and BS. And then others just like to bring some people down when they are having fun and can't handle a spade being called a spade or people talking shit. Heck, some of my best boating friends row Aire's and look at what a hard time I give Wave Destroyers as second to Legends. Take what you like here, and ignore the rest. Or if you're in the mood flame back!

And funrivers, the Buzz is inherently sophomoric. Jaded? No way, that flip was a great lesson that helped me progress in my Class V endeavors. Each one is a learning experience, and a successful self recovery is an awesome thing.


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## fiya79 (Feb 9, 2010)

I launched at 1.6 behind 2 well loaded rafts that looked to be 15' and 14'. They had a 30 minute head start and I caught them 100 yds from the launch hopelessly pinned in 1st turn. We extracted them and they pushed on. They were having a tough time for sure. they didn't move well and did not appear to read water very well. it was going to be a long trip. I passed when they both pinned again several times. The usual routine was to stop above a rapid and watch them grunt through it then go myself after the carnage. then i would fish for a while until they did it all again. 


If you can read low watr and know how to spin/shimmy/scoot you will be fine. If you are overloaded and clueless it will be slightly less fun.


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