# Can you R2 a 12' raft?



## tress33 (Jan 5, 2007)

depending on skill level, sure can. my buddy and I R2 the Royal Gorge about 1000- 1200cfs, and other sections of the ARK in a 12ft bucket, what a ride. not sure you would find it "easy" though.
Good Luck


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## davedlg (May 22, 2007)

Yup. I've R2'd most of the Arkansas, westwater, the upper gauley and other rivers in a 12-foot raft. R-2ing gets tricker with bigger boats, but I think 12' is a great size for R2ing.


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## JBL (Jun 7, 2006)

I've R2'ed my 14' down the Poudre (Mish, Lower Mish, Poudre Park, Bridges) a few times. Takes a little getting used to but since the boat will be light, it's much easier to move around.


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## cuzin (Oct 4, 2007)

I have a 13 ft sotar that I R2 on a lot of stuff. It's nice and light and floats high up on the water so it's really maneuverable. I've even loaded it with overnight gear - not a problem. It's also nice since I've also loaded 7 people in there and run class IV. Very versatile boat.


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## tango (Feb 1, 2006)

R2ing 12 footers is how i learned the lines to guide the gauley. people regularly R2 on smaller boats such as mini-mes or pumas.


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## FLOWTORCH (Mar 5, 2004)

I'm into rafting threads today, what can i say....

A friend and I r2'd a 14ft hyside through Cross Mountain our first time through it.


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## caverdan (Aug 27, 2004)

I have a 12' Vanguard that is the perfect R-2 machine. I've R-2 and R-1 Browns in my 14' Avon. The trick is to be in sinc with each other and become one with the flow of the river. Spin to win!!


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## JCKeck1 (Oct 28, 2003)

No


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## danger (Oct 13, 2003)

11'8" is the universal cut off. the laws of physics dictate that two individuals weighing more than their equally divided masses will collapse into the center of the raft creating a singularity from which nothing will escape. if, however, the two individuals add an additional mass that exceeds their duplicated masses then the singularity will revert back on itself and undo the previous doing and blow up. there's an equation to prove this but my computer lacks the functionally to illustrate my theorem. suffice it to say that if joe says no, then don't go.

dan


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## caverdan (Aug 27, 2004)

danger said:


> 11'8" is the universal cut off. the laws of physics dictate that two individuals weighing more than their equally divided masses will collapse into the center of the raft creating a singularity from which nothing will escape. if, however, the two individuals add an additional mass that exceeds their duplicated masses then the singularity will revert back on itself and undo the previous doing and blow up. there's an equation to prove this but my computer lacks the functionally to illustrate my theorem. suffice it to say that if joe says no, then don't go.
> 
> dan


That law of physics only applies to plastic boats. Buy Hypolon and life is good. :mrgreen:


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## cdw (Mar 28, 2005)

A buddy of mine who guided professionally took his 2 dogs and mine down section 4 of the chatooga in a raft, and I offered to R2 with him, and he told me just to kayak along 'cuz "I R-1 with 6 fat people in front of me every damn day, and at least the dogs know how to high-side."

He had clean lines at around 1 foot on the guage.


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## PaulGamache (Apr 4, 2007)

*Hell yes you can R2 a 12'*

I've done a bunch of R-2ing in a 12' and find it super fun and totally managable. While obviously it's easier w/ a smaller boat it's still super fun.

Check out http://youtube.com/watch?v=m3GKsA0cbvg for a clip of R2 a 12' over a ~28'

Enjoy

Paul


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## mjpowhound (May 5, 2006)

Thanks all. I've only R2'd a 9' Hyside and while it was a kick in the ass there wasn't room for much junk or people. Do you think 14' is pushing it for a couple of new rafters? We want to eventually take it down the Ark and similar rivers with friends and family and also row some overnighters. Thanks again!


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## Melrose (Nov 2, 2005)

mjpowhound said:


> Thanks all. I've only R2'd a 9' Hyside and while it was a kick in the ass there wasn't room for much junk or people. Do you think 14' is pushing it for a couple of new rafters? We want to eventually take it down the Ark and similar rivers with friends and family and also row some overnighters. Thanks again!


14' is not pushing it. 12' would be better for the Ark's steeper runs, but a 14 will do just fine. plenty of multiday packing room in a 14' too... make sure the floor works


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## WhiteLightning (Apr 21, 2004)

Melrose said:


> 14' is not pushing it. 12' would be better for the Ark's steeper runs, but a 14 will do just fine. plenty of multiday packing room in a 14' too... make sure the floor works


...unless you mean for R2ing. You could r2 a 14 footer, but I wouldn't buy that if you mostly R2.


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## vardaddy (Jun 14, 2004)

I've r2ed a 14' hyside down several runs including royal gorge at about 1600cfs and numbers. R2ing is a great way to learn if you are both new to rafting but I would aim for some easy sections to start off with. You also might want to find someone to r2 with who is experienced to get an idea of how to set up lines, call out paddling, etc before r2ing with your significant other. Two people new to rafting in the same boat learning together could possibly be a recipe for ending a relationship. 
If you are looking for multi-day trips, want to slap a frame on there and oar boat or bring several friends and family down, occasionally r2 something then 14' is a great size.


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## raftus (Jul 20, 2005)

R2ing a light weight 14 footer isn't that different from R2ing a 12 footer. The big difference is strength to weight ratio. A 12 footer is definitely preferable for R2ing and can still hold multi-day gear and or passengers.

A Mini-Me or Shredder weighs about 45 lbs, divide by two people thats 22.5 lbs per person. 11'8" hyside outfitter weighs 87lbs, so 43.5 lbs/person and a lot more versatility. 13'10" hyside outfitter is 120 lbs, so 60 lbs/person. With fellow raft guides and strong friends I have r2ed my old school 14'3 hyside ~ 145 lbs, down a fair bit of class IV (Poudre: Upper mish to bridges, Clear Creek: Lawson to hwy 6/119). It's fine - I would also run Numbers, Royal Gorge and most any other class IV this way. 

I R2ed Westwater with a fair bit of gear and one passenger and we weren't fast, but fine for class III. That said I wouldn't take a passenger and gear while R2ing Gore in my 14' Hyside. But with a strong experienced R2 partner and an empty boat it could be done. The 12' would be a lot better there as would a Shredder or a Puma. I also wouldn't R2 with several passengers - I would make them paddle or use an oar frame.

A 12 foot boat is ideal for almost any raftable run in Colorado. It is more of a sports car for tighter creekier runs and will still do fine on Gore. Unless you want to do narrow/steep creeks it will work well. The place it lacks is for big multi-days and high volume rivers due to limited gear capacity and stability. A 14 footer is the small side for the big multi day stuff while still getting down most Colorado runs.


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## dugan (May 5, 2006)

The answer is yes. Have fun. 
However, I would like to take this oppurtunity to share with you and the rest of the forum just how totally awesome I am by including a complete list of all the class IV stuff I have R2d in my life. 
Unfortunately, I've left my super bad ass rafter's log in my dry bag. Needless to say my dry bag is in my 12' raft that I R2 all the time so I'll have to get back to you.


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## raftus (Jul 20, 2005)

It is true - I am totally awesome.

However I failed to include many of my R2 runs in my last post, so here is the complete list:

Wait, I wouldn't bother boring you with it.

I just included a few to illustrate the point I was making. But I do enjoy getting hateful posts when I am being helpful.


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