# Gates of Lodore High Water



## AMYMOON

we are going on the Lodore next week. Seems to be running between 9 and 10,000 and I have heard Hells Half Mile can be nasty. Anyone done this stretch at this level? Tips?:


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## jamesthomas

Do a thread search. Last year there was a thread with this title that had a ton of good info. Distilled, if your comfortable with big water/waves most everything is covered up. Lines are easier but a swim in that kind of flow is not a good thing. Be safe.


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## lilbillm

*High Water 9260cfs 2016 Hells Half Mile*

Perspective from a 12'6" Hyside cat,overwhelmed,and theres an entire playlist.....hope it gives you ideas,not nightmares,like it did to me....


https://www.facebook.com/pg/Phoenix-Raft-RepairSales-111094308938474/videos/?ref=page_internal


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## wsmckinney

That looks amazing! Riddled with surf.


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## spencerhenry

I ran the biggest of the meat that I could get to at about 8000 last year in my 14' cat. No big deal, the lines are easy to see and easy to hit, set up and run it.


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## John_in_Loveland

AMYMOON said:


> we are going on the Lodore next week. Seems to be running between 9 and 10,000 and I have heard Hells Half Mile can be nasty. Anyone done this stretch at this level? Tips?:


We just took off and it was running 9000. Definitely need to scout Disaster, Harp, Triplett, Hells and Moonshine. However, the runs are straight-forward, with maybe a hard pull or move here or there. As said above, its mostly punching BIG waves, although there are a few trouble spots to avoid. This was my first run down Lodore and I found it to be spectacular...and the rapids were just tough enough to get my heart pounding.

Hells wasn't too bad and I am not that great a boater...basically run center left to pass between all the nasty stuff river left and just skirt the big center hole/wave (think they call it Lucifer's rock?)...then there is a BIG right side lateral that you "T" up for. After that its a roller coaster.

Harp was especially wild...5-6 BIG standing waves all in a row, like a NPS employee said "a Mini Hermit".

It was very cold and moving fast so dress appropriately. Wish I could get my pics to upload...have a great one of a NPS raft just after a total eject in Disaster...so it happens to the best. Have a great time.


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## John_in_Loveland

John_in_Loveland said:


> We just took off and it was running 9000. Definitely need to scout Disaster, Harp, Triplett, Hells and Moonshine. However, the runs are straight-forward, with maybe a hard pull or move here or there. As said above, its mostly punching BIG waves, although there are a few trouble spots to avoid. This was my first run down Lodore and I found it to be spectacular...and the rapids were just tough enough to get my heart pounding.
> 
> Hells wasn't too bad and I am not that great a boater...basically run center left to pass between all the nasty stuff river left and just skirt the big center hole/wave (think they call it Lucifer's rock?)...then there is a BIG right side lateral that you "T" up for. After that its a roller coaster.
> 
> Harp was especially wild...5-6 BIG standing waves all in a row, like a NPS employee said "a Mini Hermit".
> 
> It was very cold and moving fast so dress appropriately. Wish I could get my pics to upload...have a great one of a NPS raft just after a total eject in Disaster...so it happens to the best. Have a great time.


Here are some pics..


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## kazak4x4

How was the run through Moonshine? Did you hit it or went left?

From the link above (thanks for the vids!) looks like the Disaster rapids are the toughest ones at that level. Did you go left on the Upper/Mid disaster by the big rock?


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## John_in_Loveland

kazak4x4 said:


> How was the run through Moonshine? Did you hit it or went left?
> 
> From the link above (thanks for the vids!) looks like the Disaster rapids are the toughest ones at that level. Did you go left on the Upper/Mid disaster by the big rock?


There was a soft spot just to the right of the big center wave in Moonshine and I hit it square. Just went up and over and rode the rest of the wave train. The other guys tried to go left and still were pushed into the center, down the wave train.

We went left in Disaster, but had a bit of an "epic". The first boat missed the scout eddy and ran blind. The second boat followed to provide support. I wasn't sure if I should go or scout but there was a NPS trip scouting and they yelled to stay left. We did, but not quite enough to miss the big bottom wave. Was turned a bit sideways but highsided and went up and over. From what I can tell, the closer to the shore you can run safely, the better. This NPS boat in the picture is making a perfect run.


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## River Betty

*Disaster @ 8,600 cfs*

Who might that be rowing the NPS boat making the "perfect run" in Disaster?


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## Electric-Mayhem

I just got off the river too. I have GoPro footage that I haven't gone through yet but I can post it later.

Its definitely big water. I'd say the hardest section was Lower Disaster Falls since it was hard to scout. The current really pushes you at the large rock/pourover and one guy in our group went right over the top. He did a good job keeping a cool head and it was crazy to watch his raft go completely vertical as it went over.

Upper Disaster was no big deal. Stay away from the Right side. You can hit the big wave/hole in the middle like I did, or you can skirt to the left after missing a few sleeper rocks at the top. There is a small rock garden between Upper and Lower so just keep an eye out for sleeper rocks.

Lower Disaster, IMHO, was the hardest rapid to figure out on our trip. No good scouting spot between upper and lower, and all you can see is a big pillow formed by a large house sized boulder. Normally you just go left of this rock, but at these flows it creates reactionary waves and a fairly sizeable pillow. The most drama free route is to go Right of this rock, which is what I did. You have to be confident in your rowing skills though, because the current will be pushing you towards the pillow rock and you'll have to keep rowing hard to miss it at the last second. The other option is the left side, which is much easier to make but has some large waves and holes that you'll want to make sure you hit straight and with some momentum. Ranger Ed, who gotten off the river the day before we launched, said they had a flip and a couple of near flips in there. Luckily its pretty mellow after that, so if something does happen in there there is a nice place to recover afterward.

Hart's Falls was an awesome surprise. None of us had ever really paid much attention to it in the past, but it had some big ole haystack waves that were really fun to run. It felt like a mini Hermit rapid. Nothing overly scary or prone to flipping a raft if you keep it straight, and it was pretty easy to miss those waves if you wanted to so I personally don't think its worth getting out for a scout but its up to you.

Triplett is run similarly to how you would do it at medium to low flows. You can scout this one but I don't think it was a big deal. We camped there and walked down to check it out, but I personally would have skipped the scout if we had just run it. Avoid the rock pile on the right side and its an easy rapid. There are some standing waves below it that are fun to hit.

Hells Half Mile was big too, but pretty straightforward. Start to the right side of the two rocks that are center right at the top and then either get straight and row hard to punch the big hole that is made by Lucifer (which is completely covered up) or make your way left just before it to miss it. I hit it in a 13' raft and it got me completely wet but I didn't feel much resistance. After you get passed that, try to make it to the right as there is rock garden down there. I was too busy watching the other guys run the rapid and ended up getting beached on a few rocks that took me a bit to get off of.

The rest of the rapids are fun but IMHO don't need scouting. We read and ran Moonshine, which has some big fun standing waves in the middle of it. Tee up to them and its no big deal. One guy ran far right and didn't seem to have a problem. I think you can hit the left side a bit, but there are some sleeper rocks to avoid over there.

SOB was just some medium sized waves with a big one at the bottom center. Easily avoided, but fun to hit.

Schoolboy was washed out and just required staying away from the cliffs.

Inglesby rapid was fun. There was a pretty decent sized hole on the right side of the rock and was the only one I hit that really wanted to surf me. I hit it with some momentum and it still held me for a couple seconds. I was aiming for it though, and its very easy to miss for the less adventurous.

I think Disaster Falls and Hells Half Mile are worth scouting, but for a relatively confident and experienced rafter I think the rest are easily done with a read and run. Disaster Falls was the biggest personality change for sure, and pay special attention to trying to get a good view of Lower Disaster. You can see it from the upper scout, but I didn't see a good place to get out and look at it in a place where you could see the features.


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## duct tape

Almost like being there. Thanks EM.


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## smhoeher

*Big water on Ladore*

I ran a few years ago at about 8500. It was fun! Expect powerful, big, water, and stay on the oars. We didn't have any trouble. Went to scout Disaster Falls and missed the eddy and went right down the middle at the top. On the lower section we all ran left to avoid the big rock. Don't get sideways or you'll be in trouble. We scouted Triplett but didn't really need to. Same turn and pull just like other levels.

Hell's was BIG but somewhat washed out. Again, we had no trouble.

All the other rapids were big but no problems. Moonshine seemed to scare me but when I got into it I had great fun right down the middle!

Have a great time.


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## desertSherpa

Here is my video of the rapids last year ! 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2OHqSqW1ec
9k+cfs


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## All4ward

Great videos and pics. When does the lottery or peak season start? Is it possible to run this during pre season like The Main or Hells Canyon?


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## kazak4x4

All4ward said:


> Great videos and pics. When does the lottery or peak season start? Is it possible to run this during pre season like The Main or Hells Canyon?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Mountain Buzz


You still need a permit for pre-season.

High Use Season for 2017
On the Green River, it is from May 8th to September 8th. On the Yampa River, it is from May 8th to July 14th. The rest of the year is considered the low use season for both river sections.

https://www.nps.gov/dino/planyourvisit/boating-and-rafting.htm


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## Electric-Mayhem

Permits for low use season are kinda hard to get since there is only one launch per day per river (so one for Yampa one for Lodore) and no restrictions on how many times you can hit it. I do think there is a restriction on having more then one permit at a time though. I've been keeping my eye out for cancellations but haven't seen any pop up.

The main difference between high use and low use is the launches per day and the rule that you can only go through Dinosaur once during High Use season i.e. one trip on either the Yampa or Lodore but not both. There are slight exceptions to this if you book a cancellation within two weeks of the launch date though.


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## duct tape

Hey EM, still would like to see your high water videos!


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## Electric-Mayhem

duct tape said:


> Hey EM, still would like to see your high water videos!


haha...I just finished this one. Its actually still uploading, so it might be 20 minutes to an hour before you can see it from the time I'm posting this. I was gonna change a few of the edits, but I decided to just leave it so ya'll could see it. I'm getting ready for a Yampa trip I'm driving to first thing in the morning so I wouldn't be able to get it for another week.

https://youtu.be/1yv9RlOE7Jo

This is my run down Disaster Falls. As always the video never does the size justice. I was happier with my run in Lower Disaster then Upper. I got turned about 45 degrees by one of the big waves and wasn't able to recover before hitting the big hole at the top so I hit it a little sideways (hence the utterance). I was aiming for it though, so don't feel like you have to hit that stuff. The other guys in my group went much further left and stayed dry.

Lower Disaster was definitely less impressive on the video then it was in person. The pourover that I go to the right of was easily 10-12 feet tall. I manged to just barely miss it to the right. One guy in a 12-13' raft didn't make that move and went right over the pourover and his boat was completely vertical (at least from my vantage point below). The last guy on our trip went left and did fine. 20/20 hindsight I wish I would have gone to the left of the pourover. I slowed the video down towards the end so ya'll could get a good look at those features over there.

I do have footage of some of the other rapids including Hells Half Mile and Hart's Falls, but won't be able to get to uploading those till after I get back from my Yampa trip.


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## kazak4x4

Thanks for the video. From your video it looks like Lower disaster right path seems safer? Is that so?


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## Electric-Mayhem

kazak4x4 said:


> Thanks for the video. From your video it looks like Lower disaster right path seems safer? Is that so?


It's safer but it's also harder to make and you risk hitting the pour over. All of the current pushes you towards it. It's much easier to hit the left side but you have to hit some large waves.


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## duct tape

Thanks for video!


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## kazak4x4

Bumping to see if there any new TRs from high water Lodore.

Thanks


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## badkins

Bump as well, curious if there are any predictions for flow in the weeks ahead? Will it stay at 9k, or is there a chance it will go up at peak melt?


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## rubtheduck

watch out for triplet!!! Stay left!!!


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## basinrafter

badkins said:


> Bump as well, curious if there are any predictions for flow in the weeks ahead? Will it stay at 9k, or is there a chance it will go up at peak melt?


I don't think it can go above 9k - pretty sure that's the max they can release out of the Flaming Gorge dam. But I could be wrong? You can check this link for the BuRec's predictions, but it doesn't update all that often. https://www.usbr.gov/uc/water/crsp/cs/fgd.html 
We're launching at the end of the month, and I can't decide if I want to see it at 9k or not!


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## John_in_Loveland

I'm not that great a boater and I thought it was a gas at that level. Big roller coaster waves just made for punching and just enough must make moves to get the adrenalin flowing. I'd do it again in a heart beat (hint hint).

I plagarised this "do unto others as you would have those upstream do unto you" thank you Nessy!!


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## Electric-Mayhem

Yeah...other then a flash flood or the dam over topping, the max flow for the Green below Flaming Gorge dam is 8950 cfs. It has been releasing at the max it can for the last month or so. This is full capacity for the Hydro Plant and also full flood gates open.

The Flaming Gorge dam website says that "Current Flows will likely continue through the runoff season" so it sounds like it will be at these High Flows for a while.

Have fun, go left at Disaster and Triplet and then middle for Hells and you'll be fine. Have fun in Hart's Falls too....its a heck of a lot of fun.

Moonshine is fun too...just watch out for the laterals and tee up to them (not to direction of current...to the waves themselves). We had a near flip on my Yampa trip last week because someone didn't nose in the waves. They are 45 degrees to the current in there, so just be vigilant.

The wave in SOB is a lot of fun to hit if you want to get wet. Inglesby has a great little hole on the right side of the rock too. I hit it on both my Lodore trip and Yampa trip and it is a really fun hit. Definitely kinda sticky, but in a friendly way as long as you hit it straight.


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## skixc

We ran Lodore last summer at 9Kcfs. It was nothing like the river at 4k or lower. So if you haven't seen it high scout the big rapids and watch others make their runs. Two days before we launched there was a flip-pin-and drowning in Disaster. The flow was hard to read and moved left much more and much faster than expected. With any run when the flow doubles it is a new game. Be prepared for smaller boats-13 ft or less to flip and support each other to catch swimmers. Try not to be too spread out. Put one of your most experienced rowers in the sweep boat with the rescue gear. The bigger drops are much faster and much bigger than at the low dam release flows. Plenty of excitement and plenty of fun with good runs. Have a great trip.


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## skixc

The dam flow is not the total source for Lodore. The creeks between the dam and the launch are small but could add a bit to the total at peak runoff.


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## Riverbilly

Spillway capacity is 28,800


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## basinrafter

Just checked the BuRec site again, and it looks like they're dropping the flows at Flaming Gorge down to 6,600 cfs for a bit....and expecting to ramp back up around Memorial Day weekend.


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## duct tape

https://www.usbr.gov/uc/water/crsp/cs/fgd.html


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## TUNACAT

Any recent trip reports? Bugs? Putting on next week.


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## Electric-Mayhem

I did the Yampa last week. Typically the bugs start at Echo Park, and there weren't many there. We stayed at the Cove and there were some mosquitoes down by the water but nothing a bit of bug spray couldn't keep away and they weren't up high in camp yet. 

Its pretty swampy at Jones Hole since the water is dropping but was high for a while. There might be another bump on the Yampa but I think it is passed the peak for the year. The Flaming Gorge dam website says they may be bumping flows back up to full capacity in the next few days depending on inflows into the lake, so keep an eye out for that.


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## basinrafter

Stay far away from the rainbow park campground if you don't like skeeters! We pulled over for a lunch break and we're getting torn apart within 30 seconds.

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## JPG87

Any suggestions for a first timer in a 12' raft? It's also my first time as TL, should be an interesting time. We have a June 28 launch. I initially thought a 12' boat would be great on that stretch, but the dam website says flows of 8600 are expected through the end of June.

Also, does anyone know what the water temps are like around that time? I've done Deso/gray at the same time of year and the water was extremely warm, but i've not boated that far up the green.


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## unlucky

The 12 foot boat may feel a bit small at times at 8600 CFS and if you ask me the water is always cold on the gates of lodore section, but my kids think its just fine for swimming in, even at 8600 CFS but it is never warm like desolation/gray canyon.

If I were boating I wouldn't be taking a 12 ft boat, but I really dislike swimming too. Last year during the high water release there was a small Hyside, 10 or 12 ft frame boat and she flipped it 3 times in harp falls. Good times! She portaged it around Hells Half Mile.

I know others have been running 12 footers right now, maybe they can chime in.

Have a great trip! 8600 CFS is big waves, big boating fun, especially Harp falls.


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## Electric-Mayhem

I took my 13' Hyside down it and it did fine. Its basically the same size as a 12' boat since its pretty narrow. I felt comfortable in it and had a great time and nothing even close to flipping.

I say take it and just make sure you tee up to the big stuff. I'm pretty gung ho though, so take that with a grain of salt if you are a bit more nervous.

Look at my previous posts for a video and further descriptions. Wish I could go again...I used up my "once a year" on a Yampa trip a few weeks ago though.

If anybody gets a short notice (less then 2 weeks) cancellation I'd be interested in joining you.


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## John_in_Loveland

Isn't the "once a year" only for High season trip...i.e. if I did a low season run, can I do another High Season?

Also, as far as a 12' raft, I had a 12' Tributary and after seeing Lodore at 8900, I would take it down. (Disclaimer, during my April Trip I was in a 14). However, the ballast floor in the Tribs helps. If you can, load the front heavy, T up and punch the waves. There are really no tough spots, just big waves, laterals and a few holes to avoid. Here's a shot of the big wave in Disaster, the Harp wave train and Moonshine.


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## boatbjammin

a 12' boat should be fine--the river is very forgiving. I just took off on Wednesday and it was lots of big wave trains. Just Tee up everything and use your power stroke to punch over the top of some of the waves. There's a sneak on the left in Disaster if you don't want to hit the hole. Stay way left at Triplet to avoid the birth canal, otherwise, pretty straightforward.


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## Electric-Mayhem

Yes, the once a year rule is during high use season. You can go as many times as you want during low use season and it won't count towards the high use season quota. I did Lodore and the Yampa during low use season this year and then went on the Yampa for a high use trip a few weeks ago.

You CAN go again during High Use season, but it has to be a cancellation that was acquired within two weeks of launch date. I've talked to a few people that have gotten those but have never managed it myself despite checking Rec.gov pretty regularly. Not sure how they manage the timing of the cancellations process, but I gather it goes pretty quickly since its such a desirable permit. I imagine most of them just go unused since the permit holder didn't call in to cancel.


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## trevko

John_in_Loveland said:


> Isn't the "once a year" only for High season trip...i.e. if I did a low season run, can I do another High Season?


This is from the reg book:
All noncommercial participants are limited to a maximum of one high-use trip per year through any portion of the multiday section of the Green or Yampa rivers within Dinosaur National Monument. Participation by the trip leader/permit holder or any other member of a group on any prior noncommercial river trip within the same year will result in that person’s (and the permit holder, if other group member is in violation) disqualification from holding a permit in the monument for the rest of that year and the subsequent year. Individuals may be the permit holder and/or passenger on as many one-day and low-use multiday trips as they wish. 

High-use season goes 5/8 - 9/8 on the Green and 7/14 on the Yampa.

I was fortunate last year and was invited on two Gates trips. I called the river permit office and they allowed me to go on the second trip.


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## ptwood

John_in_Loveland said:


> Isn't the "once a year" only for High season trip...i.e. if I did a low season run, can I do another High Season?
> 
> Also, as far as a 12' raft, I had a 12' Tributary and after seeing Lodore at 8900, I would take it down. (Disclaimer, during my April Trip I was in a 14). However, the ballast floor in the Tribs helps. If you can, load the front heavy, T up and punch the waves. There are really no tough spots, just big waves, laterals and a few holes to avoid. Here's a shot of the big wave in Disaster, the Harp wave train and Moonshine.


Looks like your missing a few key parts in that first picture


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## John_in_Loveland

ptwood said:


> Looks like your missing a few key parts in that first picture


yea...chuckle. The NPS was running a Ranger trip right after us and we watched them run Disaster. Both boatmen ejected in the wave, but held on and climbed back in.

I posted this on the Dinosaur Facebook page, I hope they got a kick out of it.


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