# Rafter dead Saturday at Grizzly Creek



## hkbeliever (Nov 6, 2008)

They have not released the name yet but I would guess it has to be private due to the forest service stopping commercials after 6000cfs.

Sorry for their loss but always want to learn from these to avoid this possibility on my boat. Just want to figure out the problem other than crazy high water that is damn near freezing.

Life Jackets? Reason for spill? Flip or ejection? Local boater with experience or tourists with a death wish? Intoxication?

Chttp://www.postindependent.com/news/16689846-113/rafter-dies-on-colorado-river-near-grizzly-creek

condolences to the family...


----------



## Haggardphunk (Jun 5, 2014)

aw geez what a bummer. 

Never been on this section. What is it like at 11k?


----------



## hkbeliever (Nov 6, 2008)

*fast and pushy*

I have to assume from the article that it was of course on Shoshone. The forest service closes it for commercial companies after 6000cfs due to the risk of flipping and obviously drownings. I have not run my raft throught at this level but have kayaked it at many levels and it can far exceed what most people consider class III as it is listed.

There was some footage last year at similar levels with a dory that broke and oar and flipped in the next wave that might give you some insight.


----------



## spencerhenry (Jun 21, 2004)

shoshone at these levels is still class III. it is big, it is intimidating, but there are no obstacles to maneuver, little if any technical nature to it. keep it pointed down river and everything should be just fine.

i see few people running it at these levels. BUT, i have seen very unprepared people. no wetsuits, pounding beers before getting on the water, out of shape large people, etc... 

a swim their will not be fun, but everything flushes


----------



## Outlaw (Mar 8, 2010)

I respectfully disagree, Shosho at 6k cfs is definitely NOT class III and you can definitely be eaten by a fair number of holes if you just point it down river.


----------



## mattman (Jan 30, 2015)

I've stood a 14' paddle boat on end @ 9'000 c.cf.s., think the waves were about the size of the boat. Very fast, with potential for long swim. Still some big holes at that level. 
My condolences to the victims loved ones.


----------



## pinemnky13 (Jun 4, 2007)

Outlaw said:


> I respectfully disagree, Shosho at 6k cfs is definitely NOT class III and you can definitely be eaten by a fair number of holes if you just point it down river.


Shoshone is way different @ 6000 than at 11000, it is one big long rapid , I have had more trouble at the 5 - 6000 range than at 12000. But at every level you need to be on your toes and be dressed to swim


----------



## Don (Oct 16, 2003)

*Link*

Here's the link. Seems like a simple fall into the river flush drowning with heart attack. Could happen to anyone. 

Coroner IDs rafter who drowned near Glenwood Springs


----------



## daairguy (Nov 11, 2013)

Rafter who drowned was an Illinois man | PostIndependent.com


----------



## yesimapirate (Oct 18, 2010)

Condolences for sure. I would hope it wasn't somewhere after Grizzly Creek. I can't think of any major obstacles on that section at least until after Confluence Park where the play waves may factor in.


----------



## DoStep (Jun 26, 2012)

I seem to remember a huge haystack wave that develops at these flows not far downstream from Grizzly that has potential to wreak havoc on the unsuspecting boater. There have also been incidents involving the cantilevered bike path along Shoshone that gets submerged at high flows. One should suspect anything with these high flows, watch yourself out there.


----------



## Gremlin (Jun 24, 2010)

Very sad. The details released are unclear but it sounds like the victim was flipped out of the raft and pulled back in quickly by the two who remained in and CPR was initiated immediately. Rescue personnel were notified quickly by a witness and were onsite within minutes of the raft arriving at the Grizzly Creek ramp after running the Shoshone section. Not sure where on Shoshone the victim went in but, as others have mentioned, it is one long rapid at 11,000 cfs. 


Below Grizzly, a large wave forms at the first sharp left bend that can cause problems. Be careful out there and dress for the cold water.


----------



## spencerhenry (Jun 21, 2004)

pinemnky13 said:


> Shoshone is way different @ 6000 than at 11000, it is one big long rapid , I have had more trouble at the 5 - 6000 range than at 12000. But at every level you need to be on your toes and be dressed to swim



agreed shoshone at 4500 to 7000 is better water. 

but that is not the level the discussion was about.


----------



## daairguy (Nov 11, 2013)

sh!tshow


https://www.facebook.com/scott.archuleta.58/videos/10206901642762443/?pnref=story


----------



## Gremlin (Jun 24, 2010)

Yeah, I just watched that in disbelief. Not sure I would share it. It does illustrate how fast and powerful the river is right now. And, why you should dress for the swim.


Sent from my iPhone using Mountain Buzz


----------



## spencerhenry (Jun 21, 2004)

in the posted video, the flow was 7500 or so. i put on minutes before those guys did. i thought to myself while watching them, that those were people that should not be on the river at this level. 
most of them looked grossly out of shape, there were no wetsuits, there were beers being consumed on the ramp. they just struck me as unaware of what they were about to find, and that they were not prepared for it. adding it all up, it looked like a disaster waiting to happen.


----------



## BoatinB (Jun 11, 2015)

spencerhenry said:


> shoshone at these levels is still class III. it is big, it is intimidating, but there are no obstacles to maneuver, little if any technical nature to it. keep it pointed down river and everything should be just fine.


I disagree. There are some huge holes, a nasty undercut created by the bikepath at Tombstone, many very big crashing laterals, and extremely pushy water. As the whitewater grading scale factors danger and consequences, I think it deserves class IV rating.


----------



## racerx (Sep 25, 2007)

I wouldnt turn this into a ratings debate. If it makes you happy to call it IV, go with it. All of this discussion is moot because people like those in the video will never read the ratings or know what they mean or possibly care.


----------



## skideeppow (Jun 16, 2009)

I was with a group of fairly experienced paddlers and ran this at 14k three years ago. I was supposed to be in the boat with the paddlers. I chose to just get on the 14 foot cat. 
I was scared shitless. Man eater was enormous as was the hole after the wall.
Wrap rock was also a nightmare.
To say this is easy class III at this level is crazy.


----------



## Gremlin (Jun 24, 2010)

The paddlers in the video all dumped in the "class II" water before China Wall.


Sent from my iPhone using Mountain Buzz


----------



## bschoms (Feb 12, 2015)

spencerhenry said:


> in the posted video, the flow was 7500 or so. i put on minutes before those guys did. i thought to myself while watching them, that those were people that should not be on the river at this level.
> most of them looked grossly out of shape, there were no wetsuits, there were beers being consumed on the ramp. they just struck me as unaware of what they were about to find, and that they were not prepared for it. adding it all up, it looked like a disaster waiting to happen.


 Spencer, me and a buddy were taking a look and talking to a couple of your crew at the put in. We were perched on some river right rocks as you came through...you guys styled it. These guys...not so much. Buddies wife ended up pulling the girl out of the river.


----------



## spencerhenry (Jun 21, 2004)

that was not me you talked to. 

i run solo on a 14' cat.


----------



## spencerhenry (Jun 21, 2004)

like i said before, it is big, it is intimidating, but there are NO must make moves, everything flushes. 
it is a class III, with a super fast scary swim. 

go ahead and call it a class IV it might keep some of the people that do not belong there from making headlines.

if you want to see class IV, go look at slaughterhouse or the numbers or royal gorge. BIG difference!


----------



## knumbskull (Jun 9, 2009)

I wouldn't feel comfortable sending Joe Class 3 paddler down Shoshone right now.

You are right there are no real must makes and everything flushes but it is super intense with very big waves and holes. A swim would be very long and potentially fatal as evidenced by the fatality that created this thread.

I ran it last night and it was more intense than any of my medium flow level trips down the numbers or slaughterhouse.


----------



## DoStep (Jun 26, 2012)

Since you must consider the potential swim and its consequences when rating a stretch, shoshone should not be called class III at these levels. Maybe there are no "must make" moves, but you better be in the clean line or you will get chundered.


----------



## racerx (Sep 25, 2007)

Jeez, with that criteria then there is no class III in the state right now.


----------



## craven_morhead (Feb 20, 2007)

That may be close to being right. Perhaps more accurate to say that there isn't much that a class III boater would feel comfortable on in the state right now.


----------



## gunnerman (Jun 6, 2013)

Boy I will second the above post cause we cancelled our planned run on the San Miquel with our group of 3 IK's . We have all done mild class IV runs, but at these levels any swim in normal class III becomes a class V swim. We have had to many early deaths on our rivers already this year, just think about the consequences of that possible swim at these levels. Is it really worth it??


----------



## Coloradoweezy (Jun 4, 2015)

*Shoshone*

Shoshone is not a class three at high water simply because of how fast and cold the water is. Yes, most of the rapids are flushed out but there are lateral waves that can flip your boat. You must be prepared to swim and dress accordingly. This is a very sad story.


----------



## mvhyde (Feb 3, 2004)

*Saw a couple boats out on there Saturday*

Saw a couple of Creature Crafts out there, but I think they were running Barrel


----------

