# Grand Canyon Yellowstone



## jonny water (Oct 28, 2003)

I scouted out this section from the rim and wondered if anyone has ever run this section. I know it is illegal, but?

I doubt anyone has run Lower Falls (>300 ft) on purpose but what about the rest of the canyon. It looks epic!


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## freexbiker (Jul 18, 2005)

yea it gets run more than you'd expect. Just don't get caught.


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## sbratt (May 10, 2006)

i seem to remember a story of a group being spotted and having to wait it out till night then running it that night.


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## deepsouthpaddler (Apr 14, 2004)

Doug Ammons wrote a pretty good story of running it with Rob Lesser and a few others. They were followed down the canyon, a helicopter ended up getting involved, they had charges filed and I think gear confiscated.

Does look like an amazing run.

Free Yellowstone!


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## OpusX (Jul 29, 2010)

People do run it, and people do get arrested for running it. There is a really good write up of it (and other runs in the park) in the Montana Surf guide book...supposedly written anonymously by the Yellowstone Liberation Army. Six or seven years ago I bought a bumper sticker at a kayak shop in Livingston, MT that read "Kayaking is not a crime!" and underneath it in small type was "Yellowstone Liberation Army". If I remember correctly, the guys at the shop indicated the proceeds were helping fund Nick Turner's legal expenses or to get him out of jail (I don't remember which), after he was arrested in the park. If you want to learn more about the runs, get the book...there are a couple on Amazon for a _mere_ $108 to $158!


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## jonny water (Oct 28, 2003)

I found Ammon's essay:

Counting Coup along the Yellowstone River

This is a great read....hilarious and exciting!


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## okieboater (Oct 19, 2004)

Thanks a bunch jonny water

indeed a very good read
and
another example of how the government wastes our tax dollars on harassment of us citizens instead of going after the real bad guys!


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## caspermike (Mar 9, 2007)

Bet its worth its weight in gold


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## carvedog (May 11, 2005)

that is a whole bunch of awesome. Doug is such a good writer. 

thx.


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## Kyle K (Dec 17, 2008)

If you can't afford to buy a copy of Montana Surf, borrow one from somebody. The write up about Yellowstone Canyon is fun to read and gives enough info for you should you be so inclined as to paddle it.


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## rising.sun (Sep 27, 2009)

Yep - that's some World Class writing there. 

Reminds me of this article about the Sedona 5, who tried to mountain bike the Grand Canyon back in the 1990's...
The Sedona 's 5's Excellent Adventure - Page 1 - News - Phoenix - Phoenix New Times


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## bookmillone (Jul 31, 2007)

Very good read. You should do more of this!


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## WyoPadlr1 (May 5, 2005)

*To boat it or not to boat it.....;-)*

Hmmmm, GC of the Yellowstone..... a special place indeed. Fond memories. Bring your A-game, your camo boat and paddling gear. Be willing to boat in the dark, sit in the woods in the dark with the bears, and have a trusted shuttle driver willing to meet you at more than one takeout. Also bring your checkbook and the bail bondsman's phone number, in case you get caught. Be willing to live without your boating gear until your court date, too. It needs to be legalized, for sure, but until it is, it is one logistical nightmare and one potentially VERY expensive little excursion in the Park......


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## jonny water (Oct 28, 2003)

How expensive is "very expensive." It sounds like if you get caught and are prosecuted by the Feds, then they can throw the book at you.

I bet it really becomes tempting if you live right near the park.


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## WyoPadlr1 (May 5, 2005)

jonny water said:


> How expensive is "very expensive." It sounds like if you get caught and are prosecuted by the Feds, then they can throw the book at you.
> 
> I bet it really becomes tempting if you live right near the park.


The last time 4 of my friends were caught, it ended up being a $2,000/apiece fine reduced to $500/apiece, plus legal fees, plus being banned from the Park for 3 years. Being banned from the Park was almost worse than the fines, since we need to go through it to get to the Clark's Fork Box. They have really ratcheted up the amount of the fines the last few years. Heck, if it was still just $25-$50, and a "next day" appearance in court, I'd happily appear and pay it every time. It could become like a "permit fee" for boating it, and it would help keep inner tubers from following us in....... ;-) 

It's always tempting, living close, as is the Lamar as you drive along it on the way to the Box..... talk about roadside adrenaline rush. 

Working toward legalization is really the only answer any more. They take catching "criminal" kayakers way too seriously for it to be fun to be in there nowadays. The first time I ever did it, we hiked down and slept at the put-in. We had a shuttle vehicle parked in the Mormon church parking lot, walked up to it in broad daylight, tied our boats on, and went and had pizza in Mammoth. That ain't happening anymore.... (I imagine the statute of limitations is up for this particular "crime")


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## caspermike (Mar 9, 2007)

Just depends on how bad you are wanting it. And how far you going to take shit to make it a successful mission.


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## WyoPadlr1 (May 5, 2005)

caspermike said:


> Just depends on how bad you are wanting it. And how far you going to take shit to make it a successful mission.


So true. I imagine the "stealth" approach/put-on/take-out methods are getting incredibly sophisticated nowadays  . Still, nothing can eliminate the possibility/probability of some random backcountry ranger at the cabin or along the trail, and they will always happily radio ahead and set up the posse who will eagerly await kayakers' exit from the canyon so they can "round up those evil criminals...." 

Such a bummer that we can't just go register at a ranger station, pay $20/kayaker in advance, go paddling, and let them know when we take off........ what a simple concept. Kayaking is still the lowest-impact way to visit the Yellowstone backcountry: no trails needed except maybe at short scouts and possible portages, no horses leaving horseshit and piss all over the place, and no fat tourists sitting on those horses dropping cigarette butts and gum wrappers on the ground (saw that firsthand). Even backpacking is higher-impact, since for the most part people like to travel on well-maintained trails. 

The water closes behind your boat and leaves no evidence that you were ever there...... what could be better?


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## craporadon (Feb 27, 2006)

It is pretty easy to do GCY and not get caught at the right time of year. Early April, nobody is in the park and you can hike through snow from the falls. Great story by Doug, I can't believe they kept the boats 2 years. One time we were semi-caught and they kept our Subaru, wallets, everything for 4 months. We tried to get our car back for 4 months to no avail. The key is to just not get caught on the water. As long as you are'nt on the water they don't have anything. I have never heard of a $2,000 fine unless you accept their plea bargain. The first plea bargain they sent us one time was $4,000, 10 days in jail and banned from Yellowstone for 10 years. We told them thanks but no thanks. Then it went to $2,000, 1 day in jail and banned for 10 years. Once again we told them thanks but there was no way in hell we were about to spend a day in jail for kayaking. Then it was $1,500, no jail and banned for 3 years. We politely told them there was no way in hell we were going to pay $1,500 for kayaking, we did'nt even have $1,500 between the 3 of us. Eventually they never brought that particular case, I figure it is because they did'nt catch us on the water. Unfortunately I am sure rangers read this forum so nobody can disclose secrets here about avoiding detection.


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## WyoPadlr1 (May 5, 2005)

craporadon said:


> Unfortunately I am sure rangers read this forum so nobody can disclose secrets here about avoiding detection.


No doubt about that. 

Unfortunately, the guys I was talking about were busted on the water. They attempted Ammons' party's method of evasion, but found themselves face-down in a field of sagebrush, surrounded, with guns pointed at them, and if I remember right they were even handcuffed. I thnk "resisting arrest" may have been one of the charges they faced that couldn't be plead down. It was expensive for them.


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## hojo (Jun 26, 2008)

This suggests that the yellowstone rangers have way too much time on their hands. I wonder how the restriction reads and if river boards would sneak by at least once since they are technically not boats.


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## catfishjon (Jan 27, 2007)

I searched and couldnt figure it out. Someone fill me in on why it is illegal.


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## carvedog (May 11, 2005)

catfishjon said:


> I searched and couldnt figure it out. Someone fill me in on why it is illegal.


cuz the gummint decided they didn't want of you pot smoking, librodouche, tree hugging, twirling dervish type kayakers ruining the views of our illustrious National Park.


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## caspermike (Mar 9, 2007)

Something like that.


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## Matt J (May 27, 2005)

that would be one hell of a section to try and river board

isn't there a class VI section below it?

I remember a story about some friends of friends who missed the take-out and swam some mandatory portages some where up that way


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## Blade&Shaft (May 23, 2009)

Sweet read, great writing!


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## benpetri (Jul 2, 2004)

The whole ban thing is because of an entrenched bureaucracy defending a 60 year old bad decision. As for legalization movements, anyone know what is actually happening these days with that? Last I had heard, several years ago AW brought a proposal of some sort to the NPS and they dismissed it outright.

This rest of this may be hippicrap, but what might be needed is some civil disobedience, some form of noticeable protest. Organize a party and get a bunch of yakkers and rafters decked out in full-boating gear and boats in the parking lot of Old-Faithful. I'm sure the last thing the NPS admin wants is for their gaper tourists to be exposed to old-fashioned freedom of speech while they have their carefully packaged "National Park Experience". Make it an annual pilgrimage and festival (low water season of course). Become a thorn in the bureacracy's a$$. At least it might be more likely to effect some kind of change than poaching in the middle of the night.


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## caspermike (Mar 9, 2007)

Matt j you probably heard something on the box o clark. Not going go into it. Yellowstone would be out of question if something like that happened. Most people I heRd gone thru were sound... don't know gardiner. 

Ben when government leaves you no choice what do you do acept the limitations or simply alter them. 

See you fools in kremmling stocked for kirsch


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## utidcapaco (Oct 1, 2004)

I think benpetri's idea has some serious merit.


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## craporadon (Feb 27, 2006)

It is actually a 1950's fishing restriction law. There used to be a lot of float fisherman on the Lewis river (between the lakes) and they were getting pretty overfished so they made a no fishing from boats rule on the Lewis River, which they have made into a ban on floating at all on the rivers in the park. Even though you can run a motorboat all day on the lake. 

The AW proposal(probably online somewhere, ask Gangemi) is widely acknowledged to have asked for far too much. For example they asked to be able to float the Lamar Valley, which is packed shoulder to shoulder with people watching wildlife, it is one of the most wildlife packed areas in the park and AW asked to be able to float down through the thousands of buffalo and elk and wolves. However maybe they were figuring they could give up a couple to get a couple. 

In the Park Services written response to AW(probably available online, I have a hard copy that was part of our 120 page indictment) to why they do not allow boating in the Grand Canyon the Black Canyon section was that Peregrine Falcons nested there and would be disturbed by boaters. This seems strange since there are fisherman everywhere and I have yet to see a Peregrine Falcon be "scared" of me. In fact I watched one hunt Pelicans for an hour on Beartrap Canyon once and it did'nt even notice me.


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