# Old kayaker learning to raft



## Snowhere (Feb 21, 2008)

My story is similar, kayaking for 16 years and picked up a raft for taking the family. Since you can read water you have the tough part down, now you just have to get used to rowing.

Don't be scared of taking passengers on pumphouse. I did it last year as my first run on oars with a full camping load and passengers at 6900cfs and did just fine. the weight keeps you more stable and less likely to flip.

More weight up front will help you punch holes. When I ran my 14' Hyside through Fractions/Frog Rock as my second time ever on the oars, last year at 3700cfs, I just put my cooler up front full of ice and beer for extra weight. I also did just fine.


----------



## Mr Beaver (Mar 8, 2009)

Yeah, just go get some of your old dirtbag kayakin buddies as ballast weight, thats what I did, plus most of them have swam plenty of rapids.


----------



## mr. compassionate (Jan 13, 2006)

Snowhere said:


> My story is similar, kayaking for 16 years and picked up a raft for taking the family. Since you can read water you have the tough part down, now you just have to get used to rowing.
> 
> Don't be scared of taking passengers on pumphouse. I did it last year as my first run on oars with a full camping load and passengers at 6900cfs and did just fine. the weight keeps you more stable and less likely to flip.
> 
> More weight up front will help you punch holes. When I ran my 14' Hyside through Fractions/Frog Rock as my second time ever on the oars, last year at 3700cfs, I just put my cooler up front full of ice and beer for extra weight. I also did just fine.


You meant 3900 cfs right, not 6900 cfs-don't believe it's been that level in the last 10 years!


----------



## BarryDingle (Mar 13, 2008)

I've seen my friends use 5gallon water jugs(filled) strapped to the front of the frame for weight. Helped my buddy in Pinevu last weekend. Its always nice to have weight in the front-cooler,people,waterjugs etc..It can make a big difference. Esp if you have a light 14fter like mine.

Square up to em and punch it,always. Friends don't let friends oar Pumphouse.


----------



## rwhyman (May 23, 2005)

Can you slide your frame forward a little bit to move some weight forward? Or old kayakers in the front is good too.


----------



## Snowhere (Feb 21, 2008)

mr. compassionate said:


> You meant 3900 cfs right, not 6900 cfs-don't believe it's been that level in the last 10 years!


No, I mean 6900. A few days before the weekend it jumped from 2G to 4G and then 5G before I left the office. I left my 5yr old at home just to be safe. It kept up rising and hit 6900 while we were on the river. I guess you were sleeping Mr Com, you must of missed that video of those guys from Jackson running gore around the same time and level. At 6900, Needles eye is a non-event and Yarmity is one huge hole that was still easy to miss if you stayed left. Even so there was a ton of carnage for those who strayed too far right, the hole would suck people in if they were not on the ball. At the third bench, the water was up the drainage there and the beach was gone. 

I have always skipped running the upper C when I had newbie kayakers to teach as being too boring. Now that I have kids, it is just fine. But I will take the raft and can just float with a brew and do it to river camp with them in a place where I am not putting them into too much danger. You will not find me asleep at the oars or trying to impress the ladies with some move around bridges. Funny thing is at 6900 we had to go left at the twin bridges as there was not enough room to go under the low span. No problem making the move, I was never asleep at the oars and I did not even try to fish at that level.

This year it was obviously half that flow. It was 4G when I put on and dropped to 3250 while we were on the river.


----------



## Melrose (Nov 2, 2005)

True about the weight, helps you punch stuff and stay on line. As with any boat in whitewater- set up early, especially for those eddies (if small or 'leaky' a jump to shore is required by a passenger or you). Don't be afraid to hit waves with some angle, depending on what is your next move downstream (obviously) a little angle can help you get there, so you don't 'muscle fuck' the raft all day. Minor adjustments, one oar at a time.
3 options for waves; Punch straight-so you continue straight downstream. Some angle- 2 o'clock or 10 o'clock so the river can help you get somewhere. Dead sideways-not really effective for anything but slowing you down or soaking the boat.
One difference I've noticed is that a raft can be in multiple currents at once, this can come in handy when back ferrying directly into a mid-river eddy to move one way or other, the change in speed will pull you towards it, use it.
And rocks....ah rocks, square'em if it's too late, and yell 'bump'. Learn to master the art of getting stuck on sleepers for your fishing buddies too.
And lastly, don't be afraid to 'spin to win' for corrections or set-up for the next move.


----------



## WhiteLightning (Apr 21, 2004)

I too started as a kayak and swimmer before learning to raft. The main difference is you have to set up way earlier. The good news, is you can read the water much more easily form your higher point of view. When I learned to row with oars, the big difference is using the powerful back ferry strokes that you wouldn't normally use as much when paddling.

Also, about weight, cooler of ice and beer up front helps when solo-rowing. Also keep in mind that weight helps with tracking (keeping momentum, and staying on the course you set). Another way to cheat and get better tracking, and sit a little lower in the water, especially for small water like the upper C is to run your boat a little lower on air.


----------



## Dave Frank (Oct 14, 2003)

Back ferrying is one of the single biggest differences. kayakers are so used to the downstream ferry angle. As a raft it is much harder to get anywhere that way. pulling upstream at a an angle slows your progress and you are way stronger pulling than pushing. Of course you make forward ferries still, but if you really need to get the boat across the river, pull back at +- 45 degrees.

Always push through bigger waves and holes to line them up and keep momentum.


----------



## Di (Apr 26, 2006)

I would also suggest to "play" with features in the river just like you do kayaking, when you are in Class II & III stuff with low consequence. For example, learn how to slightly bump off a rock at a good angle to change direction - you will need to do this on technical rivers sometimes and it may save you from getting wrapped. Or try to hit little eddies behind rocks to slow yourself down or get in a better position. And try surfing in small holes - besides being fun, you'll get the feel of how the raft behaves in holes rather than the first time being in Skull. It's like skiing - master all the basic skills on the easy stuff and it will be there when you need it on the big stuff.


----------



## SSOWDEN (Apr 29, 2004)

Thanks everyone, keep 'em coming.
More "old farts" that like their legs to stay awake and enjoy not contorting their bodies for a day on the river are reading this than any of us realize. If you say "not me" you are only kidding yourself.
rubber is the wave of my future probably.


----------



## Vosicot (Aug 13, 2008)

Thanks to all who replied. I really appreciate it! It looks like the verdict is more weight overall and especially up front. This rafting stuff is a new twist on an old sport, I love it. Maybe try the lower Eagle run on Sunday.

Vosicot


----------



## Rich (Sep 14, 2006)

Another kayaker that switched to rubber because of family and pain (beginning to sound like a support group for old kayakers).

But I switched to catarafts so I do not understand this whole "more weight" thing. All the weight I want is a throw bag and a 6 pack.
I row a sports car not a 3/4 ton overloaded pickup! 

Because of a kayaking background, I like to play the whole river, lots of moving from side to side in a rapid, none of this "line it up" and hang on. Also less worried about being upside down now and then (shit happens). A lightly loaded cat (with no floor) rolls back up pretty quick!


----------



## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

Rich said:


> Another kayaker that switched to rubber because of family and pain (beginning to sound like a support group for old kayakers).
> 
> But I switched to catarafts so I do not understand this whole "more weight" thing. All the weight I want is a throw bag and a 6 pack.
> I row a sports car not a 3/4 ton overloaded pickup!
> ...


A small maneuverable cat ain't no raft, and a raft is usually rowed from the rear which messes up the handling if there's no passenger. That's one reason I got a cat, so I didn't have to find people for "ballast". It is really nice to have a person up front in a raft, not only for weight but also shore landings and safety. It's pretty tough to mimic a 150lb person with water jugs, but can be done. The down-side, what if you flip, you gotta flip all those jugs with the boat too! Bring a friend, or a "low-life" yakker (give them some beer in exchange!). You can read the water, you'll figure it out quick.


----------



## Vosicot (Aug 13, 2008)

Rich,

I can see where you're coming from with maneuverability. I looked into the cataraft and it definately had that over rafts. The tradeoff seemed to be versatility in carrying people as a paddle raft during day trips or as a gear barge for multi-day trips. I'd like to test drive a cataraft sometime (maybe when I'm a better oarsman).

Vosicot


----------



## SSOWDEN (Apr 29, 2004)

6 pack, I lost that when my first child was born.

ohhhhh, you were talking beer. Is that for the takeout, you must have more on your boat. Hell I can take that in my ace 4.7


----------



## Snowhere (Feb 21, 2008)

Flips?! PBBBBBBBBSSSS!!!!!!! Flips are for cataraft sissy's! 

Gotta give you guys and girls a hard time sometime! Hell I came close to flipping in Numbers at 2200, but managed to pull it off with only dumping half the crew in #3. We had our shit together as it took us about 15 seconds to get them back in the raft. We did lose two paddles, but managed to catch up with them a few miles downstream. 

Catarafts are fine, but I have kids and round boats are easier to keep the kids on board. But now that I have a 14' Hyside, I want a 12' for smaller rivers and a 16' for longer trips......


----------



## Rich (Sep 14, 2006)

Snowhere said:


> > Catarafts are fine, but I have kids and round boats are easier to keep the kids on board.
> 
> 
> Have you tried duct tape??? I couldn't keep my daughter from taking the oars, so I bought another boat. I make a lousy passenger.
> ...


----------



## GoodTimes (Mar 9, 2006)

Dave Frank said:


> Back ferrying is one of the single biggest differences. kayakers are so used to the downstream ferry angle. As a raft it is much harder to get anywhere that way. pulling upstream at a an angle slows your progress and you are way stronger pulling than pushing. Of course you make forward ferries still, but if you really need to get the boat across the river, pull back at +- 45 degrees.
> 
> Always push through bigger waves and holes to line them up and keep momentum.


Agreed, switching mentality is the hardest thing I've had to teach my friends that move from yakin' to rowin'. Pulling away instead of paddling through.

Although, I tend to teach peeps (and use myself).........as much of a 90 degree, perpendicular to flow, approach when manuevering. You make the move MUCH faster, you're not fighting the current, and "righting" the boat is one or two strokes at best (depending on weight of course). There are times to "45 it", but only if I really need to slow myself down.

But yes, to ferry or pull out of eddies....back 45


----------



## Wnt2b0at (Oct 26, 2008)

Catarafts are great. I bought my first last year (at age 50). I put my many years in Kayaking. I still kayak, but for longer trips, the cat is much more comfortable. I have been getting used to upper mish and Rustic this year. Its way different yet oddly similar.


----------



## slowgan (Jun 12, 2007)

I row a big, fat raft. For day runs on III-IV I usually have 1 or 2 passengers, and fill the cooler with 100-200 lbs of water to even out the trim. I don't notice the weight on the oars, but it makes the raft much less surfy.


----------

