# State of Sustainable Raft Companies and Manufacturers



## christian hill (Nov 30, 2010)

After researching different aspects of the rafting industry in terms of sustainability and environmental effects, the attached link is a synopsis of what we found.
Read and provide your feedback!

Thanks,

Josh Stupka, Christian Hill, Kait Bailey, Steve Evers, Joy Lehman, and Neil B.

Western State College of Colorado Students


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## The Mogur (Mar 1, 2010)

Please don't ask me to open a Word document from someone I don't know. You are aware that they can be loaded with malware. I won't take the chance.


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## brandob9 (Jun 13, 2010)

What I think Mogur would prefer is that you print it to PDF using something like cutePDF or load it as a Google Doc.


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## Peev (Oct 24, 2003)

Don't take the chance then, who cares. cutePDF? 

What the fuck is this place coming to?


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## ricoswagga (Mar 30, 2009)

The Mogur said:


> Please don't ask me to open a Word document from someone I don't know. You are aware that they can be loaded with malware. I won't take the chance.


Worthy suspicion, but it's clean


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## brandob9 (Jun 13, 2010)

What I think Mogur would prefer is that you print it to PDF using something like cutePDF or load it as a Google Doc.

Meanwhile, I chose to trust you and read the paper. Some critique: 

- Why is the original written piece on the 4th page? 
- What point are you trying to make, or is this meant to be a statement of facts? 
- Did you do any original research for your paper? _(It's cool if it wasn't required, just state it)_
- As an employer, I like to see your take on the issue, properly couched, rather than an assembly of information
- "Sentiment of freedom"? _I feel quite free out there. Free enough to have my toenails painted and participate in naked running matches._
- What is SOTAR made of? 
- What do you suggest we change?
- Does most of the pollution occur during manufacture or use of the boat? _(See the Prius vs an F-150 for a surprise in the total carbon load for 75k miles - the F-150 is nicer to the sky because batteries are energy intensive to make)_
- How much does an organic garden honestly help? _(Smugness is a turn-off for me)_
- What is the carbon output of the guys running their registration servers instead of the printed mailings? _(Use a average power use of 500W for a ballpark)_
- Is it more efficient to deflate boats for transport? _(There will be an energy cost to inflate and deflate, I was hoping you could quantify it.)_

I'm not trying to be mean - these are just questions that popped to mind while I was reading the paper, and I'm friendlier than a prof.


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## nmalozzi (Jun 19, 2007)

whats with all the environmental research papers being posted by new users all of a sudden?


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## The Mogur (Mar 1, 2010)

brandob9 said:


> What I think Mogur would prefer is that you print it to PDF using something like cutePDF or load it as a Google Doc.


That is exactly my point. Thank you.

As for you, *Peev*: Your comment is what this forum is coming to. If you can't speak with a civil tongue, don't speak at all.


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## brendodendo (Jul 18, 2004)

Mogor, If your worried about "malware", then you obviously use a inferior AntiVirus or Protection product. May I recomend that you ditch the freeAVG or bloatware Macaffe or Norton for a combination of products like Free or Paid Avira (AV)($25 year), Malwarebytes (free or $25 license) and Comodo Firewall (PIA to set up, but great product). Also try Firefox with adblock plus and NoScript. Free and Clear where ever I go on the web.

For PDF printing, try PDF Creator
It allows yo to create a dedicated PDF printer, much better than cute pdf.

Good Critique above.

What about a difference in PVC boats that are welded vs. Glued? Manufactured in the USA as opposed to Korea and China?


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## ricoswagga (Mar 30, 2009)

brandob9 said:


> What I think Mogur would prefer is that you print it to PDF using something like cutePDF or load it as a Google Doc.
> 
> Meanwhile, I chose to trust you and read the paper. Some critique:
> 
> ...


 
Thanks for the critique brandob9. Here's a link the final revised paper in GoogleDoc format:
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=0B1EMlKhIs2IiNDE3ZWRkODctYjA5Ni00NjIwLTgwMjctN2IzMWFmMTkyMzAx&hl=en&authkey=CPfWlPsL

This should be much more comprehendible than the previous rough draft.

To answer your inquiry:

The intentions of this study are stated in the abstract of the paper.

All research was conducted via the internet and direct email conversations with various companies.

The "sentiment of freedom" an individual experiences in the outdoors is entirely subjective from "_Free enough to have my toenails painted and participate in naked running matches" _to enjoying leisure time away from work.

SOTAR rafts are made of Lexatron fabric; a polyurethane nylon, which you already know. Thanks for bringing them up; SOTAR was obviously not considered in this study but Lexatron seems to fall into a "less bad" material. Polyurethane does have potential harmful effects associated with decomposition and combustion of the material or inhalation of the polymer dust. But this is mostly prevalent during manufacturing or in case of fire causing a minute concern to consumers.
Here's a positive link about the polyurethane industry:
http://www.isopa.org/isopa/uploads/Documents/documents/sustainability.pdf

We suggest a change towards more sustainable thinking and action. Since we are the consumers, all of us as recreational boaters have the power to influence companies and manufacturers to pursue sustainable policies and practices to create a more sustainable and responsible industry. 
Positive steps start with education and awareness to these practices.

 As stated in the paper, most harmful effects occur during the manufacturing process, especially in production of PVC. 

The use of an organic garden is simply pursuing a healthy lifestyle. And why not enjoy your own locally grown produce in which you are aware of it's origins and know it was grown without nasty pesticides etc.?

Carbon output and servers? This could be a complete study in itself. As for now, I'll leave this for someone elses pursuit.

Efficiency in deflating/inflating for transport? This is variable. An inflated boat on a trailer will be more aerodynamic than one on top of the truck/van/car and thus decrease gas mileage expenditures/consumption. Would this offset savings in deflating then inflating with a hand pump? No. Would this offset savings in deflating then inflating with an electric pump? Maybe, but probably no. 
Once again, this is beyond the scope of the study so I'll leave it up for grabs.

Feedback encouraged.

Thanks!


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## The Mogur (Mar 1, 2010)

brendodendo said:


> Mogur, If your worried about "malware", then you obviously use a inferior AntiVirus or Protection product.


No, actually my computer is very well protected. But still, I know that the whole anti-virus industry is working in a perpetual state of catch-up. The ether-terrorists who create malware work around the clock to find new ways to wreak havoc on our computers, and it just doesn't pay to take chances. I know that I'm making more of this that is necessary, but I do believe that we'd all be more comfortable with (as you suggest) a pdf file, rather than a word-processor or text file that could have an imbedded self-executing program.

As for "sustainability" in raft manufacturing, I think there are bigger things to worry about, if one in intent on worrying (which I'm not). If I'm going to give myself heartburn, I'll do it over something that really matters: hunger, unemployment, nuclear weapons in the hands of N. Korea or Iran--things that can ruin your day.


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## ricoswagga (Mar 30, 2009)

FINAL REVISION IN GOOGLEDOC FORMAT:
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=0B1EMlKhIs2IiNDE3ZWRkODctYjA5Ni00NjIwLTgwMjctN2IzMWFmMTkyMzAx&hl=en&authkey=CPfWlPsL



AND WORD DOCUMENT:


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## carvedog (May 11, 2005)

I am on a mac, but I don't open word docs on general principal alone. 
Microsoft is 10 times the polluter than all the raft companies put together for the next 50 years. 

So why don't you study that?
Ok got that off my chest. 

Are you the Mother Lode River Center or was that just a hack copy and paste job?? See 2nd paragraph near the top of page 6. And the orange torpedo section - the jumping back and forth from third person to first person is confusing to an underedumacated hack like myself. Seems like there should be some attribution when quoting source materials. Or something to indicate it's not your words. 

Page 4 - comparison of PVC to Hypalon. 
Besides just pulling these out of your ... where are getting these ideas. 

Hypalon is much easier to repair than PVC. I have done both extensively and I have a PVC boat so it pains me to admit that, but it's true. 

The warranties are nearly the same. Aire has a 10 yr and I think Maravia does too. 

Comparable boats weigh nearly the same. If 100 lbs is lightweight, how would 115 lbs be Heavy? 15 to 20% is the most difference I have seen from one model to the other. 

I am pretty sure that you will find "airtight" seams on any of the better new boats out there. The only blown baffles I have seen have been on hypalon boats. So that turkey doesn't fly too well either. 
Air pocket probable in seams?? Huh?

Can't speak to the other boats out there but I believe Maravia is one of the toughest boats out there. Comparable to hypalon. And more durable in some ways. 

And how is it a "limited use" boat??? Who decided that? Glad I didn't or I wouldn't have done most of the rivers I do. 

You state the only feasible solution is to support hypalon and pressure PVC companies to use this material too. But then you go on to say that Hypalon is not being manufactured in US of A but in Japan and China.

Did you factor in increased carbon emissions to transport raw and finished products all over the world? Or you just like hypalon better?

The flipness and smugness ( "Talc is just as sexy" as an example ) is no substitute for good, accurate writing. "PVC bears it's teeth" should be bares. As in to reveal or to uncover as in bare - to make naked. 

"Current raft material places the raft industry in a very distant cry from being environmentally friendly and sustainable....."

This may be the most unwieldy sentence I have read in a while. 

At the end you thank some sources for contributing to this "report". 
While it is a collection of something I am not sure that I would call it a report. Yet. Keep working on it though and you might get there. 

Sorry if this harshes your buzz, and while the intent of what you are looking at is admirable and worthy, I feel your "report" is immature, inconclusive and hard to understand at times. Also presenting ideas as facts rubs me the wrong way almost all the time. 

Now I am going to rub myself in talc and stabond and roll around on my raft for a while..........


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