# Anyone have photos of the Upper C or other crowded western rivers?



## Therealjohnjohnmiller (May 5, 2021)

get some from browns what a shit show


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

Therealjohnjohnmiller said:


> get some from browns what a shit show


I'm googling and not coming up with anything. Teh googles is pretty well optimized to show commercial boats full of smiling people


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## mikesee (Aug 4, 2012)

This picture makes me incredibly grateful for the Ramshorn blowout, and makes me fervently hope that that sort of event keeps happening.


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## Electric-Mayhem (Jan 19, 2004)

mikesee said:


> View attachment 84438
> 
> 
> This picture makes me incredibly grateful for the Ramshorn blowout, and makes me fervently hope that that sort of event keeps happening.


Dollars to donuts that blow out won't make a lick of difference for this upcoming season. I suspect that if it obstructs commercial trips from getting down the river, it won't be there for very long.

I just hope permit applicants don't figure that out before the end of the month.


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## mikesee (Aug 4, 2012)

Electric-Mayhem said:


> Dollars to donuts that blow out won't make a lick of difference for this upcoming season. I suspect that if it obstructs commercial trips from getting down the river, it won't be there for very long.



You're probably right.

But I hope not.


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## FatmanZ (Sep 15, 2004)

That picture to me illustrates that if everyone else is doing it (ie. morning launch) then I shouldn't be doing the same. Nothing like avoiding crowds and having the boat ramp and eddy all to yourself........... ;-)


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## Wallrat (Jan 19, 2021)

Do an April Marsh/Middle and you’ll be the only boat on the river. That picture is everything that’s wrong with summer.


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## Electric-Mayhem (Jan 19, 2004)

FatmanZ said:


> That picture to me illustrates that if everyone else is doing it (ie. morning launch) then I shouldn't be doing the same. Nothing like avoiding crowds and having the boat ramp and eddy all to yourself........... ;-)


Yep....









...20 minutes later...










.... a couple hours later....


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

Sorry, I should have clarified. Trying to find pics of non-permit, daytrip type stretches. Popular with commercials/privates, etc.


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## Randaddy (Jun 8, 2007)

Not photos, but here are the private boater counts for Browns and the land manager begging people not to come.









Colorado Parks and Wildlife


Colorado Parks and Wildlife is a nationally recognized leader in conservation, outdoor recreation and wildlife management. The agency manages 42 state parks, all of Colorado's wildlife, more than 300 state wildlife areas and a host of recreational programs. CPW issues hunting and fishing...




cpw.state.co.us


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## Electric-Mayhem (Jan 19, 2004)

MT4Runner said:


> Sorry, I should have clarified. Trying to find pics of non-permit, daytrip type stretches. Popular with commercials/privates, etc.


Sorry for the hijack... thread ADD is a thing...

For the upper C.... its mostly that its crowded with all kinds of users and often not ones that are knowledgeable or respectful of the resource as they should be. There are definitely areas that have 20 guys trying to fish the same 100yards of water and as a rafter you gotta dodge through that. I don't run it all that often because its pretty tame whitewater wise, but the last time I went I didn't feel like the river was crowded. That was before COVID and I recall it being a weekday too...so maybe it has changed. I certainly hear of plenty of shitshow stories about that river from the combination of proximity to cities and towns and lack of major consequences compared to other rivers. You can go buy a boat, not know how to use it, but still get away with it most of the time on the Upper C. That is where I learned to kayak back when I was 12, so have some fond memories. Sorry...I don't have any pics of crowded eddies and boat ramps specific to the Upper Colorado but I'll see what I can find for ya.

Rivers like the Arkansas often have a steady stream of commercial rafts going down especially runs like Brown's Canyon. If you put on at the wrong time, you'll have rafts breathing down your neck all day, but there are also lull's in traffic you can get into if you pull over and let a few trips go by or put in at the right time. The other runs seem less crowded but you still definitely notice the commercial activity. If you type in "Brown's Canyon rafting" plenty of pictures of trains of rafts come up. There is certainly more of a commercial bias with the management of the river and you feel like they barely tolerate private boaters sometimes... but overall it is fairly well managed and you just have to have the expectation that you are running a popular well used river. All things considered... the river is pretty well taken care of and could be a lot worse.


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## Electric-Mayhem (Jan 19, 2004)

This is a picture from just below the Radium Hotsprings on the Upper C...










Common to see a ton of traffic there both from river users and people who park on the road and walk the short distance down to the Hotsprings. It is a well known Hippy Dip type hotsprings. That is the best picture of a crowded Upper Colorado I've seen. There is some regulation and pay at kiosk style river use permits on that stretch...but its one of the more unregulated popular river stretches in the state.

Rivers like the Ocoee and other Southern rivers have countless carnage videos on youtube as well.


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## ColoRobo (Jan 22, 2021)

Randaddy said:


> Not photos, but here are the private boater counts for Browns and the land manager begging people not to come.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


F that! So we learn how to have safe fun on rivers, on our own or with our families, and not have to be part of the Sheeple herds paying to struggle to dig an oar into the water, barely past 3 inches, b/c we're too busy looking at our first mountain vista as we ignore the guide as we blab, "Golly ma, they don't got these hills back in Dallas!", give time and money to 'save our rivers' AND then we're told to not come enjoy these public lands when maybe it's the only time some of us with 40 hour a week jobs can get on the water?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!


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## jamesthomas (Sep 12, 2010)

Ok, you want pictures of CF rivers from the buzzards. As a “normal” river user I am NEVER taking a picture of that shit. Maybe I should though. Hecla on a weekend pops into my head.


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## Contor (Sep 10, 2018)

MT4Runner said:


> I have a meeting in 2 weeks with the Flathead NF and would like to share some images of other areas that have uncontrolled user numbers


Deschutes has been bad in the past. I’ve stayed away for the last 4 years. Don’t know what is like now. Used to be online images of many people on the river at once.


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## Contor (Sep 10, 2018)

Contor said:


> Deschutes has been bad in the past. I’ve stayed away for the last 4 years. Don’t know what is like now. Used to be online images of many people on the river at once.


Deschutes is permitted but no observable limits the last time we were there.


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## jeffro (Oct 13, 2003)

Zoom Flume rapid (Browns Canyon of the Arkansas) June '21


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## k2andcannoli (Feb 28, 2012)

I like a busy river... We don't need another white knight doing the governments job for them.

If you don't like crowds, go boat some real rapids.


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## class 3 felon (May 14, 2008)

Here is one for you. The Upper C is really crowded the 2nd weekend of September when all the old guys show up in their wooden boats. I counted 28 last year, sure would be nice to see 29!.....


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## wdeutsch (Apr 27, 2020)

Somebody has GOT to have pics of the Moab daily on a busy day, right? I avoid that like the plague, but it would be exactly what you're looking for. Maybe one of the outfitters down there could help you out?


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## nervouswater (Jun 3, 2008)

I just can’t hate on the crowds. I think it’s great that so many people are getting outside and showing the next generation that there is life away from social media and the internet. If you want to control traffic, limit the commercial traffic, but even that takes away the opportunity for people to enjoy the outdoors. If I have to wait a few minutes longer at a boat ramp, I could care less. Once you’re actually on the water, the crowds become way less of an issue. We float the A section on Labor Day every year and we go into it knowing that there will be a million people around and that the ramp will take awhile, but we’ve never not had a great time. At the same time, I’ve got sections of river near me where we will hardly see any traffic, you just have to pick which one suits you best.


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## BastrdSonOfElvis (Mar 24, 2005)

Electric-Mayhem said:


> There is certainly more of a commercial bias with the management of the river and you feel like they barely tolerate private boaters sometimes...


I had words with raft guides in the #s on more than one occasion who come cooking through a hole without any regard for what's happening in it. (and I was happening in it) I remember yelling at one kid that "either you're an asshole or a shitty fucking raft guide or both!" as his customers looked on in astonishment lol.


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## Electric-Mayhem (Jan 19, 2004)

haha...I had a buddy that would ad "remember to tip your guide!" to the end of every altercation with guides... mostly to remind the guide that they are whoring themselves out for cash (his words...not mine) and to remind the customers that they should consider the behaviour of the guide when tipping. I'm not convinced it ever landed with either group like he thought it would.


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## Wallrat (Jan 19, 2021)

Electric-Mayhem said:


> haha...I had a buddy that would ad "remember to tip your guide!" to the end of every altercation with guides... mostly to remind the guide that they whoring themselves out for cash (his words...not mine) and to remind the customers that they should consider the behaviour of the guide when tipping. I'm not convinced it ever landed with either group like he thought it would.


I don’t think guides would ever let their clients forget that they should tip them.


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## ArgoCat (May 14, 2007)

Yep.


k2andcannoli said:


> I like a busy river... We don't need another white knight doing the governments job for them.
> 
> If you don't like crowds, go boat some real rapids.


I've always said, the only thing this river needs is a good class IV.


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## jbri51 (Oct 1, 2020)

Therealjohnjohnmiller said:


> get some from browns what a shit show


Most of the time I have Browns to myself. Launch before or after the set commercial launch times and it's peaceful floatin. Stop for lunch, let the pods float by and follow behind. Wildly help misconception that browns is a "shitshow".


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