# Middle Fork Trip Leader - choice for alternates?



## AirEms (Jan 16, 2011)

It is my understanding that the "PERMIT HOLDER" must be on the entire trip. If the permit is in your name you have to be there and cannot transfer it to another person. This kinda sucks but those are the rules.


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## Brotorboat (Apr 14, 2009)

AirEms is correct. No alternates. Permit holder must be present at time of issue. If you can't go, please cancel as soon as you can so the permit can go back into the system and be used. If you wait too long...it is forfeited.


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## fiya79 (Feb 9, 2010)

I have heard rumor of exceptions for severe and sudden medical issues but that was long ago.

Your best bet is to cancel it after people stop watching the site very much and have someone stay up for 24 straight hours hitting refresh incessantly. 

Unless it is August 15-September 15. Then kill who you have to kill to go because that permit is lost forever.


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## panicman (Apr 7, 2005)

Hey that reminds me i need to get on the page and start hitting refresh to find a permit.


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## Wadeinthewater (Mar 22, 2009)

the_dude said:


> ........so I'm inquiring about the possibility of an alternate trip leader in the event that I can't go.


Are there any lottery permit rivers that allow transfer after the permits are drawn? Otherwise I have my 85 year old mom and dad, all of my non-boating friends and anyone else I can think of apply and then transfer the permit to me.


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## wildh2onriver (Jul 21, 2009)

Wadeinthewater said:


> Are there any lottery permit rivers that allow transfer after the permits are drawn? Otherwise I have my 85 year old mom and dad, all of my non-boating friends and anyone else I can think of apply and then transfer the permit to me.



Yeah sure, the Salt.


Sent from my iPhone using Mountain Buzz


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## Sembob (Feb 27, 2014)

The Grand allows for transfer to an alternate trip leader. Must name said person before the lottery is closed. And if that person has fewer points so does your chance of scoring. 


Jim


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## the_dude (May 31, 2006)

Wadeinthewater said:


> Are there any lottery permit rivers that allow transfer after the permits are drawn? Otherwise I have my 85 year old mom and dad, all of my non-boating friends and anyone else I can think of apply and then transfer the permit to me.


i just did this on the san juan. i scored a permit for that one in early june then picked up a middle fork cancellation. can't do both and wanted to do the middle fork, so i accepted the san juan and named my friend as the alternate trip leader.


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## Wadeinthewater (Mar 22, 2009)

Sembob said:


> The Grand allows for transfer to an alternate trip leader. Must name said person before the lottery is closed.


Yes, the Rogue does this also. And like the Grand, your name can only appear on one lottery application, either as a TL or alternate. Most people do not list alternates and instead have each person submit their own application to increase the odds of their group being drawn. 



wildh2onriver said:


> Yeah sure, the Salt.





the_dude said:


> i just did this on the san juan.


So in effect, for the Salt and San Juan, the number of applications a person can "submit" is only limited by the number of people they know that are willing to turn over any permit drawn to them? Not that any boater would ever game the system. And it also opens up a secondary market for river permits. Anybody want to give me a donation and I will give you this river permit I am not going to use? I imagine selling a noncommercial permit would be illegal.


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## BlueTurf (Mar 9, 2013)

It wasn't the Middle Fork but I was on a Hells trip a couple years ago that allowed a permit transfer from a wife to her husband for medical reasons. I think it is pretty rare though.


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## cataraftgirl (Jun 5, 2009)

I was able to transfer my Main Salmon permit to another group member when I broke my leg two years ago. I had to send a notarized letter from my doctor to the North Fork head ranger and the new permit holder had to be an already named and paid in full group member. I forfeited the fees I had paid for myself. My group had no problem at Corn Creek. My problem surfaced the following year when I logged into rec.gov to apply for permits and discovered that the brilliant folks at rec.gov had transferred my entire account into my friend/new permit holder's name, with all his info on my account. I spent several days on the phone with the North Fork ranger, and various folks at rec.gov including their management person. They refused to change my account back into my name. "We never change the name on an account" they repeated over and over. "Well you did" I replied. No dice. They did close that account, but I had to get a gmail account in order to open a new rec.gov account, since they wouldn't let me open a new one with my regular email address.

But that's water under the bridge now, and I picked up a July Main Salmon cancellation this morning. Yippee.


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## Pro Leisure (Sep 19, 2011)

Deso allows transfers too


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## cmharris (Apr 30, 2013)

*July 29?*



cataraftgirl said:


> But that's water under the bridge now, and I picked up a July Main Salmon cancellation this morning. Yippee.


Your welcome if it's July 29. If not, disregard.


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## fiya79 (Feb 9, 2010)

I checked for cancellations pretty religiously since midnight on the 16th. Other than a brush with selway at 8am when 4 were released I haven't seen any of the elusive cancellations this year. I am usually so lucky. Time to make more friends.


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## cataraftgirl (Jun 5, 2009)

cmharris said:


> Your welcome if it's July 29. If not, disregard.


Not July 29th, but someone out there is thanking you.

Mine showed up early this morning. I saw nothing yesterday.


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## Matty (May 13, 2004)

4 years ago, our trip leader ended up in the hospital for 3 weeks and was unable to go on our MFS trip. I called the river office because he was too sick to call himself. The woman (Donna?) was super understanding and accommodating. She allowed the permit to be transferred to me with a Dr's note and a letter from the original trip leader. Mind you this was a true medical emergency 3 days before launch day. Not sure what the response would be for a non medical reason months in advance would be.


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## Matty (May 13, 2004)

I should clarify that. The permit remained in his name. Fees were paid by him, and I was made the trip leader in his absence.


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## hand8272 (May 24, 2011)

I can totally understand a permit name change in the case of a medical emergency that is proven from a doctor. Just a regular transfer from one person to another, I would have a problem. The implications of that would create mayhem but also large amounts of dollars for the Forest Service.


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## cataraftgirl (Jun 5, 2009)

We have dealt with Donna in the past, and she rocks. The gal at North Fork was also super nice and helped me through my ordeal. I broke my leg a couple weeks before our trip and in addition to being totally upset about my own situation, I was bummed that my friends might have to lose out on the trip. I just wish the change hadn't messed up my rec.gov account. As long as you have a legit medical issue, they are very understanding & helpful. Changes due to non-medical issues I'm not so sure about?


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