# Deso Gray at high water?



## restrac2000 (Mar 6, 2008)

Most wash out though there is no history with Joe Hutch at this flow. Biggest reported hazards are boiling eddies and massive debris flow. The current will be very swift, likely 8-12 mph. 

Some rapids will likely get worse at this level. Deso has tons of sneaks and clean runs at all levels. That said, the entire river can be filled with massive hydraulics and picket fences. Just make sure everyone knows how to read water.


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## kazak4x4 (May 25, 2009)

It would be hard to find many witnesses to these kind of flows in Deso. A lot of us have trips lined up end of May, who is the first to do a report for the rest of us?


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## Rapid Resolver (Jan 31, 2010)

We ran it last year as it peaked out around 17k. Joe Hutch run down the left was some really fun 14 foot rollers. Some boils that would suck a tube if you didn't hit them strahgt on. 

Should be a great trip!


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## restrac2000 (Mar 6, 2008)

One of my rafting buddies is Jim Aton, the river historian for Deso. He ran in '84. He said at 35ish. It could obviously get higher. He said the flow was swift but they often floated by normal rapids without knowing it.

Hard to know for sure but most folks I talk think Joe Hutch will actually return to the simple, Class II rapid it used to be. But who knows what those massive rocks will do.

Won't be off until May 27 with report.

Phillip


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## BarryDingle (Mar 13, 2008)

Its like every other river at high flows,some shit gets bigger,some shit washes out. Scout accordingly. ??


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## restrac2000 (Mar 6, 2008)

BarryDingle said:


> Its like every other river at high flows,some shit gets bigger,some shit washes out. Scout accordingly. ??


Definitely seems accurate and concise....

but what is the fun in that when we are all chomping at the bit for our upcoming trips......Epic snowpack=epic predictions and postulating (BSing would be more succinct).

Phillip


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## BackCountry (Nov 22, 2009)

We're hoping to see 40,000+ for our trip the last week of May, first week of June. Everyone in our group loves BIG water. I've run Deso at 3,800 and found it not to exciting and slow with quite a bit of rowing. Since then we have always managed to hit it at 20,000+. Bigger water is a lot more fun on that river and less work. Joe Hutch is a blast above 20,000 since it changed.


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## teleski1 (Nov 8, 2004)

I have run it at 22800 three years ago.. We were some of the first to see Joe Hutch at that level. It is still a left run with yep 15+ haystacks. everything else gets washed but still fun wave trains.


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## BCJ (Mar 3, 2008)

I've run at 30K and 33K, and also in the 20's and teens, and 30+ trips at lower levels. In the 30's it is just all fun. Easy to get from camp to camp. Coal Creek has big friendly waves. You should enjoy it but remember it will be faster so swimming is more hazardous. Do NOT play around without PFDs.


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## Gremlin (Jun 24, 2010)

teleski1 said:


> I have run it at 22800 three years ago.. We were some of the first to see Joe Hutch at that level. It is still a left run with yep 15+ haystacks. everything else gets washed but still fun wave trains.


Is that 15 FOOT or, in excess of, 15 haystacks?


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## Chaser (Apr 22, 2008)

June 16th permit, lookin' forward to some trip reports before then. Be safe and enjoy record flows!


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## kerry edwards (Apr 24, 2009)

You won't be getting one for me. This week's forecast of high's in the 50's and rain caused most of us to back out of the trip.


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## Big Tuna (Apr 13, 2004)

I put on May 21st with 15 8th Grade students from my school. Will send out a T.R. upon return. Big thanks to Goals 4 Youth for making this trip happen!!


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## kerry edwards (Apr 24, 2009)

The rest of our group called if off today due to bad weather. Hope your launch on the 21st has a more favorable forecast.


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## restrac2000 (Mar 6, 2008)

Looking nasty through early next week for the entire region. Forecast discussion on NOAA has moisture moving in through thursday and then returning Sunday. We launch on Sunday the 22nd rain or shine; might be wearing my drysuit part of the trip. We had several folks experience mild hypothermia last May in Deso.

Really hoping it warms up midweek so I can see the river in the 30k range but not holding my breath. 

Its been a real spring this year, still getting snow in most of Utah.

Phillip


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## milehighassassin (Jul 6, 2005)

Hoping it warms up as well. We are putting in on the 8th of June. We ran it last year around this time and had a GREAT trip. Slept outside every night but one, had a little sprinkle the one night. Warm weather, good flow.

Looking forward to this year at these levels. Please update for anyone that goes prior to. I'll make sure and update after our trip.


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## jennifer (Oct 14, 2003)

How are the mosquitoes at the end of June? What are the chances there will still be high flows (15,000+ cfs) the last week of June? Thanks!


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## milehighassassin (Jul 6, 2005)

Jennifer, the mosquitoes are a tough one to predict. Two years ago the mosquitoes were bad at our first camp (REALLY BAD!). I got destroyed. They were much better the further we went.

Last year, we planned for them, bringing a fogger. No mosquitoes at all. I am guessing they won't be as bad early this year. I just assume the hatch will be late because of all the cold weather we have had.


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## Gremlin (Jun 24, 2010)

We took off the river yesterday. Yes, the weather wreaked havoc but there were breaks in the rain and even some sunshine. It felt like camping in Colorado at 9000 ft. in July. Rain, sun, wind, warm, wet, cold, and better than being inside all week. The rapids were mostly splashy and rocking but not a lot of formed up wave trains. Joe Hutch was thunderous and chaotic. No one attempted a right sneak as the pull into the center was too strong and not worth the risk. The left run takes you into a huge lateral to square up to and bounce off. The push into the wall below wasn't as strong as at lower levels and we glided off to the right of the haystacks. Most of the groups that launched on Sunday with us were there at the same time Thursday and everyone made it through safely. 

The water levels were definitely fluctuating from the rain, pull your boats and tie them securely and check them often. A lot of large flotsom to stay away from.

Have fun, be safe!


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## restrac2000 (Mar 6, 2008)

Thanks, Gremlin! Launch tomorrow and expecting some odd fluctuations in the level. Finally bought a sand stake (actually found one on Lake Powell while sea kayaking) and plan on using it to tie my rig off with two ropes.

Hoping the weather forecast for us is accurate....finally get to see temps in the 70s. 

Will leave a short TR when I return next week.

Phillip


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## stevo1 (May 25, 2009)

Just got off at 27500 cfs. The cow swim has some big waves, (10-15 ft) scouting needed. Heard some grand canyon savvy people call it a western "7", I would agree. The weather SUCKED but had fun anyway,. Wife ran in to a bear....good bear never came back. Use your best clean camp rules and keep that bear alive!


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## Gremlin (Jun 24, 2010)

*Joe Hutch Rapid 23,000 CFS May 19, 2011*

YouTube - ‪Joe Hutch Rapid @ 23,000‬‏


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## LeftOfCenter (Aug 16, 2009)

Just clickin' in to get trip report updates. Got a launch for June 17th. Looking forward to hearing more experiences as the waters keep going up (27,000 this morning!)


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## BarryDingle (Mar 13, 2008)

Bigtuna just got off of it,he said the same thing that's been said over and over....Joe Hutch is big n legit and many others were just big wavetrains. He likened it to the "gems" in the GC


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## milehighassassin (Jul 6, 2005)

Will be putting in on the 8th, we'll be out the 13th. I'll update ASAP.


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## noschoollikeoldschool (Jun 24, 2009)

I ran it in the 20's in the 90's and found that it was a ball! Big waves, fast short days, cottonwood trees drifting by.


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## stevo1 (May 25, 2009)

*fatal on the green/deso*

Ksl is reporting a fatality on Deso at wire fence rapid 72yo female flipped her IK. She did not respond to BLS. Be careful out there kids that H2O is COLD.


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## snapdragon (May 14, 2011)

thanks for the update regarding loss of life in deso. we launch on friday and are always intereested in the happenings in the canyon, anyone have boat ramp condition, is the water up to the parking lot?


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## BackCountry (Nov 22, 2009)

Just got off nine days in Deso/Grays. The water was a steady 30,000 for the whole week. Waves are choppy as opposed to large wave trains you find in the lower 20,000 range. Joe Hutch was no big deal, runnable on both sides. Right down the middle left run was the biggest line but the waves were not as large and rolling as at 23,000.

Wire Fence rapid is the one to watch out for followed by Three Fords. Wire Fence has a large boat grabbing hole near the bottom left of center that all the laterals flow towards. Start pulling right at the top of the rapid to avoid it. It grabbed my 14' gear boat a bit. Flipped one of our Maxi-Me's but my 14 year old daughter went right over the top in her Maxi-Me, got sucked back in and rowed out without indecent. The hole is very reminiscent of Last Chance in Westwater.

Three Fords has some bad holes river right against the cliff, stay down the middle and you won't have any problem.

Water is cold and moving fast, try not to swim because you will pass the boats quickly and be on your own. We watched a group of kids cliff jumping across from Firewater canyon and four of them got out into the current. Only two made it to shore - the other two went a half mile down the canyon unable to get out of the current before they disappeared from sight. We were on the Firewater side and could do nothing to assist. Do not be stupid at these water levels.

The mosquitoes are getting bad at the put in and the first day down the river but then are gone.

All in all the flow is no problem just be smart and know the water is cold. My 14 year old daughter can handle her own boat solo at these levels. Use common sense and watch out for the dead cows floating down the river.


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## paulster (May 27, 2011)

Just got off 6 days at about 30k. Everything seemed pretty easy and straightforward. Some campsites were not that great and vegetation plus fast current made stopping difficult in places - we had some issues with missing agreed upon spots. Rapids all very manageable read and run. It was fast, 6.5 mph or so for the last few days when the wind wasn't blowing. Minor mosquitoes for the first few days, then annoying gnats for the remainder. The water was warm enough to dip in at least briefly. Lots of wood in the water but nothing scary. The water is over the road a few miles south of Neffertiti.


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## TheCanyonWren (Aug 22, 2009)

here is a video of outward bound running cow swim just under 30,000 cfs. pretty straightforward, I thought. 

YouTube - ‪cow swim at 30k‬‏


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## steveo.evers (Apr 21, 2011)

I was guiding the third boat in the video above. The line we took was very straight forward and clean and I would recommend it for paddle rafts (as any swimmers on river left could end badly with the sieve pile toward the bottom left). That being said, anyone rowing shouldn't have a problem taking the same line as the first boat in the video and running left to right.


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## melissawd (Apr 20, 2005)

*has anyone ran Deso at 40 - 50K?*

Are there any old boaters out there who have run Deso at 40-50K? Camping? I don't know when it's been this high before...maybe it is around a 100 yr flood level and there isn't anyone alive! If you have any beta on camping at these levels bestow your words of wisdom...launch date June 17th...ha ha I would love to hear from anyone who gets off the river in the next day or two.


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## paulster (May 27, 2011)

Paddled the Price yesterday and chatted with a group just taking off Deso at the takeout - they said it was great, no problems, some camps are underwater and require a little creativity and effort to catch. I was on Deso a week ago at 32k or so and had about the same experience. The current is very fast - makes the wind a bit irrelevant. Our shuttle driver told us that rangers at launch are strongly discouraging boaters from launching and that 5 of 6 groups scheduled for shuttle cancelled at the launch. I'd call the BLM office before leaving to see if they actually get to the point of prohibiting launches. I have lost some respect for the river rangers for that - the only safety issue is that the current is fast and a little more attention to keeping groups together and prepping for a shore landing is required. The water is warm and there are no dangerous rapids.


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## stevo1 (May 25, 2009)

*deso at high H20*

We ran deso in the 83-84 (?) when it hit 48,500+. This was helped along with a reservoir failure on the lttle snake, this was the same failure that put northern pike into the river sysyem. This failure plus a LOT of water made for the high flows. Camping was tough, I remember using a "turtle camp" the first night! The flow was such that we made milage quota in 2-3 hours. The pull outs were tough with huge eddies and lots of trees, limbs dead animals ect.. The only other camp I remember was rabbit valley, you may have to double up on campsites, do not let a good one go...you can always make up the miles next day! The only rapid I remember is THE Joe Hutch, those mid stream rocks made for some HUGE waves...stood a Havasu 3 straight up! The rest were washed out as I remember. This is just old history, you are on your own for your own trip...hang on and have fun.


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## melissawd (Apr 20, 2005)

Thanks paulster and stevo1. I had gotten the same beta as you did Paulster, from the shuttle guy I'm using. Good to know he had it right. So, Stevo1, what's a "turtle camp"?
So far, our group is up for it. The flow dropped a few thou yesterday, but I think it may be due to cool weather. I'm keeping an eye on the CO River Basin Forecast center site and on the weather. It would be great if it went down a bit, but I"m sure not counting on it! Stressing out over camp is such a drag. And I will call the BLM daily until we depart. I agree it's lame of them to talk people out of going once they are at the put-in. They should call the permit holders if they feel that strongly. I guess just like the rest of the government, they are too broke for that.


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## Ture (Apr 12, 2004)

My experience has been that the rangers at that put-in can be pretty conservative. The one I'm thinking of might be gone by now, but I have had a few put-ins at super mellow flows where the pre-launch inspection and lecture were... rigorous.

Maybe they are right to discourage some groups. Maybe some show up with Kmart gear...I don't know... but for me they have cried wolf to a group of very experienced riverrunners with all the right gear at levels that were super duper easy... so I'd use my own judgement and not put much weight on their opinion of the level of danger.


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## kazak4x4 (May 25, 2009)

Deso is considered to be an easy-family-beginner river, where new boaters go to test their skills with little kids on board. All rapids are drop and pool so a potential for a long swim or a hydraulic is almost none existent. So most people who apply for these permits count on an easy run. Deso at 40k+ is a very fast and cold current and I am sure a lot of people who go to Deso might not know the dangers, don't have access to Youtube for trip report videos or don't talk to rangers. I am not surprised that rangers are talking people out of it. Most rangers haven't seen Deso at these levels.

Alex


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## paulster (May 27, 2011)

I agree with Alex - people that float Deso expecting to turn children loose on pool toys should be concerned. Someone with basic whitewater experience and reasonable equipment will be fine. A lone swimmer could be in the water a long, long time. Fortunately the water is fairy warm. Keeping the group close together is probably the most effective safety measure. There was quite a bit of wood floating, but it was easy to see and avoid.
The camp issue was not that bad for us at 32k. The issues we had were boatmen not prepared to pull quickly into an eddy, favorite camps that didn't look very appealing, and camping on less desirable benches (not as much shade as we wanted). Campsites were a minor nuisance and gave us something to complain about - it did not detract from the trip.


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## stevo1 (May 25, 2009)

*Deso on high!*

The BLM is afraid of boaters w/poor gear and leadership, say, troop 666 from Eagle mountain Utah, they do not call steer ridge rapid Boy scout rapid for nothing. The turtles are (I belive, guide book put away) are in the mid 70's. you can find fossils of turtles in some layers. Look for yourself....they are very high H2Ocamps. Things have changed since 83-84...make your own new adventure;-)


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## LeftOfCenter (Aug 16, 2009)

*Launch on the 17th*

We are launching on Friday, and I could not be more excited! (ok, and a little apprehensive...) But we are running only three rafts with experienced oars-people and are ready to rough it when all our sandy beaches are replaced by eddy parties of bloated cattle carcasses... 

In fact, this will be my first non-working trip on this stretch (no teenagers to harass about sunscreen, hydration and goddammit-forget-about-your-tanlines-and-put-your-life-jacket-back-on) and I am practically giddy with thought of actually drinking a beer (gasp!) in the evenings while we cling to our allegedly shadeless cliffside! Or maybe it will just be time for some REALLY extreme bocce...mmmmmmm

Anyway, I know there were five private launches initially available for that day- so pm me if you will also be at Sandwash on Friday and maybe want to touch base about who else will be out on the river with you during an historic season.
We could also discuss campsite intentions if you like, but we are a small group and are more than willing to make new friends if there are limited options, and I get the feeling that improvisation will be the name of the game at this level... 
So...
Joyful boating!


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## keexote (Jun 13, 2011)

Look forward to hearing bout your trip leftofcenter. We have a launch date on 6/28. Enjoy


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## skiersteve3 (Apr 29, 2011)

Just got off Deso at 45,000 give or take. This was my first time ever running the river so I can't really compare it to what it normally would be. That being said it was so so fun, i would go tomorrow if I could. Feel free to ask me any questions you may have and I'll do my best to answer them, looks lilke the river might have peaked, but it should hold near 40 for a bit.


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## milehighassassin (Jul 6, 2005)

Just got off. We ran June 8th-12th. Joe Hutch Rapid was no problem, smaller for sure. Joe Hutch creek rapid right before it was very large. We actually flipped a boat twice. Keep them straight and you will be fine but the 2nd flip was in the rapid about 2-3 above the takeout. Eddie caught the tail end of the boat and turned it, hit the next wave and went right over in one motion.

I "think" the other one was rattlesnake maybe? (sorry, I am horrible at rapid names, I'll try and confirm that". There is a rock right in the middle that pulled the boat in, tried to pivot off of it and turned the boat sideways for the next rapid. We rigged good and didn't loose a thing, even had a guidebook tucked into a tiedown strap and it was still there when we righted the boat! haha!

Bottom line is that the water was flowing probably 36k-47k the days we were there. Lots of flow, very fast water. Keep it straight and you are fine but there are plenty of places that it is easier said that done. Be ready for it.

Swimmers outside of the boat move very fast, keep them close. I got out to play in the flat sections and it doesn't take long to get far away from the boat. I wouldn't let children get out.


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## milehighassassin (Jul 6, 2005)

Camping wasn't a major issue. Double up where you can, listen/talk to the rangers. Take a camp if it is close, communicate with other groups on the river. Lots of washed out camps, but we found plenty. Smaller groups be considerate of larger groups and vice versa. If there is room for another group, invite people in. We were turned down by a group of two rafts (and two people) who were camped in a pretty large spot that had room for more boats and had PLENTY of land up top.


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