# Top Ten ways to improve the odds on rivers



## mania (Oct 21, 2003)

Okay with all the safety 'buzz' going around I wanted to see if the collective wisdom of buzzards could come up with a top ten ways to improve survival odds on rivers (other than stay home) since that is just bad for everyone involved and for our sport when someone dies. I am hoping these ten ideas would apply to both commercial and private trips and kayaking, canoeing or rafting and even tubing.

Anyway here is a list to get us started.

Mountainbuzz top ten ways to improve your odds on moving water.

1. Wear a properly fit (snug) Personal Floatation Device (PFD) with all buckles buckled when on the water.

2. Active self rescue in the event of a swim, including the use of an aggressive swim towards shore or another boat. Discuss this with all participants! No one may be able to get to you!

3. Dress for a swim. Being too cold to swim can quickly sap your strength.

4. Set proper safety should you choose to run challenging rapids with consequences such as strainers, unfriendly holes, or long swims. Don't hesitate to walk a rapid with such consequences.

5. Avoid alcohol before and while on the water.

6. Wear a properly fit (snug) helmet whenever kayaking or when rafting in difficult whitewater.

7. Know how to throw your rope. Practice practice practice. Don't leave ropes in the riverbed.

8. Wear a knife and whistle.

9. Do not wear non-locking carabiners, loose cords, or anything which can get you hooked on something.

10. Choose an appropriate river and flow for your groups skill and fitness level. Go with a minimum of two to three boats when in remote locations. The strongest boater should go first.

what do you all think? are we missing any biggies or are any of these overstated? I bet some of you might say be trained in first aid or rescue and that is true, but I am just thinking of things that would apply to most everyone on a trip. obviously a commercial customer might not need to know how to throw a throw rope but they should know how to catch one. I think all the other things apply excepting maybe the knife and whistle. I strongly believe commercial customers and private passengers need to be educated on the aggressive swim/self rescue. telling them to hang out with feet first until someone gets them is asking for trouble.


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## dq (Apr 25, 2005)

mania said:


> 3. Dress for a swim. Being too cold to swim can quickly sap your strength.


And if you don't plan on swimming, dress warm enough to be effective if you happen to be called upon to rescue somebody else. You might need to stand in that water so save someones life. Wear shoes for the same reason.


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## nmalozzi (Jun 19, 2007)

in terms of throw ropes: 

-be sure to unpack them and repack them before a trip. i've seen lazy guides back east through birds nests about 5 feet short of swimmers because they hadn't repacked their bag in a few weeks. 

-also be sure to yell so that the swimmer (and others on shore who may have ropes) knows there is a rope coming at them. again, while guiding last summer i saw three ropes all get tossed one after another, the swimmer managed to get her neck between all three and couldn't get free. luckily i was also swimming and was in a place i knew to be safe to stand, and was able to untangle her and pull her to shore. if each safety person had yelled then the others would not have thrown, and the situation never would have happened.

-have someone there to help anchor you for when the swimmer tensions the line. no matter how strong you are the odds are way against you, but simply having someone behind you to grab the back of your PFD can make a huge difference. I pulled a 14foot raft of new yorkers in this way since they decided to blow past the take out (no guide in the boat).


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## tellutwurp (Jul 8, 2005)

I think in the same line as setting safety should be scouting. In that same vein, you should probably gather information from a guide book / buzz on hazards and such that could cause issue or need for scouting / safety.
I know this is implied, but not specifically stated.

Perhaps something about communication.


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## JCKeck1 (Oct 28, 2003)

I've got a couple. Check out the Accident on the Ark post for my discussion on CPR. Make sure you and your friends know it. Carry a pocket mask in your boat - it's more effective, weighs nothing, and keeps your friends from puking on you.

I have to second that you need to carry a whistle. A friend pinned on sunday under a log. He couldn't get to his spray skirt and we had just watched him stomp V+, so no one was watching him in the run-out where he pinned. As we prepared to run the rapid we heard the three whistle blasts of an emergency. I ran back downstream and saw him. He was on river right and I was on river left. Fortunately, another paddler had already portaged his boat around the rapid, so I jumped in and paddled to river right. However, I have a full face helmet which everyone knows is a pain the the ass to wear while scouting and portaging. I had left it in my boat at the top of the rapid and ended up running class IV mank in a friend's boat down to the pinned boater without my helmet. Once I got onto the log, things went well, but necessitated being in the icy water for approximately 5 minutes - thank god for my drysuit (Kokatat specifically). Long story short, every one is ok.

Lessons learned:
1. Have a whistle near your mouth at all times - it might save your life one day.
2. More and more people are wearing full face helmets and we're all wandering around the banks without them on. I know it's a pain, but I'll never leave my boat without mine again. 
3. As someone said above, dress to help other people. I definitely could have swam that day, but even on easy days, dress to stay in the water if someone else has problems. Drysuits are amazingly warmer than any layering system I've used. 
Joe


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## Gary E (Oct 27, 2003)

1-Go to the rec center and swim laps. Get used to being deprived of oxygen while being physical. Get in shape!

2-dress warm, a swim/pin puts you in deep water in a hurry. Buy my new dry suit at confluence, so I can get a larger one.

3-pin kits/ ropes know how to get to, and use in 30/60 secs. This includes z set up 

4-PFD is number 2/3 on list

5-whistle is key. One blow, drop good to go- two blow, not good- three, come get my ass.

6-know your signals

7-know what your friends are willing to do and not do for you. Then make decisions based on your ability and the groups ability.

8-paddle where you can breathe

9-throw your rope at friends that swam; All day, on and off the water

10-don't be afraid to give'r just cause you might swim if the swim is safe.

11-no crying or jack in the boxing, on the river.

12- always buy your buddies dinner if they save your sorry drowning ass. (thx J rod, Gleason and Simo)

thats my 2 cents


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## Cheyenne (Oct 14, 2003)

When about to toss a rope, get eye contact with the swimmer if possible. Yell, or blow your whistle to help get their eye contact
Go after the swimmer first, make sure that they are safe before going for equipment
Don't compound a situation. Don't turn a situation involving one person needing help into two.


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## Dahlia (May 21, 2008)

Also be aware of changes in the river through out the day, especially if you are unfamiliar with the stretch you are on.

That's prolly the biggest contributing mistake to my wrap, well besides hitting a shit pole. I noticed the water got really muddy the last hour or so. I even commented to my friend about how muddy the water was getting, but it didn't register that the flow was rapidly increasing - due to being on the Colorado (always muddy) the day before, beginning of the season, almost to take out, and that was only the second time I'd been on the Eagle. If it was the Poudre, muddy water would have sent red flags up and I would have adjusted to uncertain increase of flow.


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## SummitAP (Jun 23, 2007)

mania said:


> 9. Do not wear non-locking carabiners, loose cords, or anything which can get you hooked on something.


Non-locking caribiners? I see a lot of people who have those on their rescue rigs... is this really a no-no?



Gary E said:


> 5-whistle is key. One blow, drop good to go- two blow, not good- three, come get my ass.
> 
> 6-know your signals


Yes, three or more long blasts is "emergency." Otherwise the whistle signals you listed are not the standardized meaning used by swiftwater rescue or raft guides.


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## mania (Oct 21, 2003)

SummitAP said:


> Non-locking caribiners? I see a lot of people who have those on their rescue rigs... is this really a no-no?


Brad H told me he witnessed a guide clip himself to a boat with head underwater (it resolved somehow to a happy ending). Mike Mather gave a similar story at my recent swiftwater recert and he insisted on only locking carabiners for everyone in the class and even on water bottles in a boat.

so yeah I would say its a very common mistake that although unlikely could certainly kill someone.


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## Gary E (Oct 27, 2003)

"Yes, three or more long blasts is "emergency." Otherwise the whistle signals you listed are not the standardized meaning used by swiftwater rescue or raft guides"

Sorry, let me clarify. After you drop that 20ftr, wave your paddle so your friends no it's fine. If they can't see it(which they can't) get out of your boat and hike your ass around and give them a thumbs up. If you can't get up and around, grab your cell and try to call. Glad I got a stamp on the most important signal or I would've thought I was dangerous.

Gary


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## &d (Apr 28, 2006)

Heres one to add:

check your partners gear out and have someone do a once-over on your own

a micro hole in a sprayskirt that you missed can make for a long day, and a drysuit zipper that isnt locked the fuck down will dramatically shorten your projected lifespan if you swim


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## ski_kayak365 (Dec 7, 2003)

Consider wearing your wrap gear as well. I carry two pulleys, multi locking carabiners, small ascender, along with a rope around my waist and a cpr mask in my PFD. Its all good if you carry the gear in your boat, but if you loose your boat.... or if you are in a rescue and need/want your cpr mask, then its on you and not having to go back for it. Especially with water the way it is and even on play days consider carrying a medical kit, break down paddle and ALWAYS FLOAT BAGS!!!


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## deepsouthpaddler (Apr 14, 2004)

My pet peeve is people running hard shit when the water is cold and only wearing shorts. You may never swim or pin, but what happens when you need to rescue someone else? Joe's story of spending 5 mins in the water rescuing a buddy highlights this. 

Its tempting to wear shorts because the days are so warm for most of the colorado season, but the water is still fricking cold.


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## Jay H (May 20, 2005)

and fucking shoes too--I hate to see barefoot boaters, even in the playparks...because if my ass is pinned, and someone is pussy-footing their way over, ooh! Ahh! ow!, and doesn't get to me in time because they don't have shoes on, you can bet my ghost will come back with a serious paddle beat-down ass-whoopin' on their ass!!!


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## arkshark (Jun 4, 2008)

maybe this goes without saying, BUT...

know who you are on the water with and what their experience, or lackthereof, is.

don't assume your friend's other buddy, whom you've never met, knows what he is doing because he has a rescue PFD on. "...but those rescue PFDs make me look coooler!"

if any rescue situation is needed use common sense and simplicity. yes, easier said than done, but, don't forget the KISS method!!


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## nmalozzi (Jun 19, 2007)

ski_kayak365 said:


> Consider wearing your wrap gear as well. I carry two pulleys, multi locking carabiners, small ascender, along with a rope around my waist and a cpr mask in my PFD. Its all good if you carry the gear in your boat, but if you loose your boat.... or if you are in a rescue and need/want your cpr mask, then its on you and not having to go back for it. Especially with water the way it is and even on play days consider carrying a medical kit, break down paddle and ALWAYS FLOAT BAGS!!!


my biggest pet peeve is people wearing all that stuff on them and exposed. if you have a good system to keep that stuff tucked away then by all means do so. however, don't have all that crap hanging on the outside of you. next thing you know you'll go for a swim and that rope gets hooked on something underwater and you're screwed. a bunch of idiots i guided with back east felt it was cool to have all their safety gear dangling off their pfd or waist, and it is only a matter of time before their coolness kills them.


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## Jay H (May 20, 2005)

ditto arkshark--know your crew. --and practice, practice, practice. Something I def. need to do more myself.

Also, something I just learned last night on LCC--know your body's physical limits

after a semi-epic weekend of mtn biking fri., 2 laps on LCC on sat. and skiing a 14er on sun., I rested mon., then got back on LCC last night and I could feel my arms were not 100% right from the start--suffice it to say I didn't need to do that second lap...I had some intersesting roll attempts in screaming quarter before finally getting back rightside up--only with a slightly tweaked shoulder--not bad, but could have been much worse I'm sure.

anyway, the botom line is I wasn't 100% and I knew it, but pushed it anyway and paid the (fortunately minor) consequences


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## CGM (Jun 18, 2004)

I think Gary mentioned know your signals. I would add to that have a safety meeting before getting on the water. Even if its the normal crew, take the time to review those signals so that everyone knows what they mean. It takes less than a minute, and can make a huge difference.


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## craven_morhead (Feb 20, 2007)

Adding to GGM's comment, note that the signals for "good," "no good," and "help" aren't enough. Your crew should be able to coordinate the rescue of a pinned boater with whistles and hand signals.


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## jeffy (Sep 17, 2004)

In Wigstons class one thing certainly stuck out to me... 

Make sure you know what rescue gear everyone has with them. Before you get on the water have a short talk with the group to confirm ability levels and what gear everyone is carrying.


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## SummitAP (Jun 23, 2007)

Gary E said:


> "Yes, three or more long blasts is "emergency." Otherwise the whistle signals you listed are not the standardized meaning used by swiftwater rescue or raft guides"
> 
> Sorry, let me clarify. After you drop that 20ftr, wave your paddle so your friends no it's fine. If they can't see it(which they can't) get out of your boat and hike your ass around and give them a thumbs up. If you can't get up and around, grab your cell and try to call. Glad I got a stamp on the most important signal or I would've thought I was dangerous.
> 
> Gary


Gary,

I wasn't trying to imply that you shouldn't be able to come up with your own signals to explain to and use amongst your friends (mind the double negative). I'd never seen those meanings before. That seems like a good system for what you and your friends do. However, most systems out there, one blast means "pay attention." Work it out before hand.


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## UserName (Sep 7, 2007)

Here's the deal...

If you go backcounty skiing, you should buy a beacon. If you don't know how to use it why bother?

Point is, if you aren't prepared, you are not prepared.

So, how do you prepare? 
First you need some training, then you need to practice it. From this you begin to get some experience, and this is where good judgement comes from. Waiting for your first emergency situation to occur is not the best time to start wondering about rescue situations. These posts / threads are all good, but they offer no actual experience. Learn by doing. No substitute for experience. This is how you know your abilities and your limitations.

Best learning I ever got (besides actual situations) has been to set up 'scenarios', and then respond to them. It could take just a small group of paddlers. One or two set up a situation, spend some time responding, then some time talking about what went well, what didn't, what could have worked better, etc. Then head on down stream and one or two others set up a different scenario. This is good learning.


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## BrianK (Feb 3, 2005)

Its a little different in colorado, but we learned in california to always have a way to make fire in case you don't quite make it as far down the river as you had hoped. Fire makes a big difference if you have to spend the night somewhere.


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## doloresgirl (Jun 4, 2007)

Good discussion full of excellent points!

Before you launch have that safety talk, go over what to do, how to do it, and make sure everyone, experienced and newbies understand everything, and everyone knows what the expectations are. It seems silly to a group of experienced folks to do this, but don't assume that everyone will be on the page you are. 


If you are going to use signals of any kind be sure that everyone knows them and is consistent. I can't tell you how many times the "eddy out" signal I have used was just stared at by others as they floated on by, even though I assumed it was pretty standard.


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## Schizzle (Mar 26, 2004)

*Regarding setting safety*

You have less than 1 minute to save your buddy's life if he or she can't breath. 

Know 1.) where you need to be and 2.) what you need if that situation arises.

I'm always surprised by how "all of a sudden" an accident happens in any sport.

I totally agree with GaryE, too, that swimmers and bad lines deserve a good, solid hazing. This is the positive side of peer pressure. We compliment each other for slick lines, make sure that you tell your friends when they F'd up too so that they think twice before putting themselves and you in danger again.


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## Dahlia (May 21, 2008)

I agree that this discussion is no substitute for actual experience, but it's great to have these things fresh in your mind. Once in a situation, it's hard to think of what you should do if you haven't already thought about it. Sometimes it's the little things that seem so obvious normally that you don't even consider them in the crisis. In the minutes you have to respond is not the time to think, well if I had... or had done this... or what do I do now? The time wasted to figure out what to do, could be all it takes to turn a situation from a close call to a fatality.

I'm glad we are having this discussion it's a reminder of things forgotten over the winter.


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## sofia (Mar 17, 2008)

i haven't gone through every post and perhaps somebody covered some of this already. i witnessed a situation at snaggletooth rapid a few weeks ago that was a good learning experience. after it was all said and done we found that the 2.5 hours we spent there very educational.

1- commercial gear boat came down snag with all 10 peoples gear loaded on it for a multi day trip. guide was not able to make the move and wrapped. lesson- don't overload your boat and run class IV rapids with wrap potential.

2- guide was wearing a pair of shorts and a PFD, no shoes. that river was damn cold and about 1.5 hours after getting wrapped...the guide was taking snapshots of himself being wrapped. hypothermia??? lesson- dress for the occasion.

3- paddle raft guide who was on river right was obviously more concerned about the boat and gear. did not communicate with gear boat guide to put some freaking clothes on. did i mention there was a costumer on the boat at well...in head to toe neoprene? at least he was warm for the 2.5 hours before they put him in the duckie and launched him to safety. lesson- assess the situation. think of the safety of your people first and gear next. 

4- automatic throwing of ropes without communication or looking to see if others were coming down the river. i understand wanting to get your boat off the rock asap...but it was noon and about 20 rafts above scouting the run. lesson- communicate your intentions with other boaters on the river.

5- paddle raft guide setting up z-drags with minimal help. when he did get help from what seemed like some experience boaters...it didn't seem like he was listening. lesson- communicate. listen to voices of reason and those who might have more experience.

6- after hour or so and frustrated scouters on shore...some knuckleheads starting running the rapid...hoping to get left of the boat wrapped and the ropes. i'd say 5 of them BARELY making it, one didn't and somehow made it over top of the ropes. lesson- don't be a dumb a** and be respectful to your friends on the river. or maybe don't become part of the problem!

7- when commercial trip did get the boat off of the rock there was no plan of what to do next. this was actually the best part! this 16' hyside, fully loaded was suspended and submerged directly in front of the snaggletooth rock for what seemed like eternity. it seemed like the obvious decision should have been for the gear boat guide to cut the rope but things worked it's self out. lesson- have an exit strategy.

8- we met up with the group the next day and the gear boat guide asked if we had any extra TP. lesson- double wrap your TP or your clients probably won't tip very well!

i don't mean to slam these guys. they did what they could. nobody got hurt and they got their raft back. thats about all you can ask for. but it was definitely a learning experience on saftey, communication and being thoughtful about the situation you are in.


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## possumturd (Jul 13, 2006)

*face*

Bring your boater face :neutral:. It's ok to yuk it up be keep a serious attitude about what you are doing no matter how easy or familiar the territory. I recently got cavalier because I was in familiar territory. I coupled 2 mistakes close together and it resulted in nasty beat down with my friends chasing gear and me stumbling around on the bank looking like:


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## wayniac (Mar 31, 2007)

mania said:


> Okay with all the safety 'buzz' going around I wanted to see if the collective wisdom of buzzards could come up with a top ten ways to improve survival odds on rivers (other than stay home) since that is just bad for everyone involved and for our sport when someone dies. I am hoping these ten ideas would apply to both commercial and private trips and kayaking, canoeing or rafting and even tubing.
> 
> Anyway here is a list to get us started.
> 
> ...


For raft support- Stow your bowline and sternline properly. Ropes kill more boaters than the rapids ever did. A rafter got hung up in the hole at the Golden dam. He got wrapped up in his rope and didn't make it. I did the same thing, but my boat was rigged 'clean'. I exited and swam out. Rope is the most dangerous thing you carry. Pay attention to it. I you can't manage it properly, you would be safer to leave it at home. No BS.
wayne


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## wayniac (Mar 31, 2007)

doloresgirl said:


> Good discussion full of excellent points!
> 
> Before you launch have that safety talk, go over what to do, how to do it, and make sure everyone, experienced and newbies understand everything, and everyone knows what the expectations are. It seems silly to a group of experienced folks to do this, but don't assume that everyone will be on the page you are.
> 
> ...


 Whistles- When we run with new boaters we have a rule. A whistle is never used for anything but a swimmer- and this includes of course a flip. It simplifies the question- did I hear a 2 or 3 blasts?...........
wayne


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## Paul (Oct 11, 2003)

I didn't see anyone post this yet, but this has served me well (so far):

Make easy rapids hard before trying to make hard rapids easy.

If it isn't obvious, I mean that you should be able to run a familiar class III in unfamiliar ways (running different line, catching all the eddies, backwards?) before stepping it up to class IV. It's better to screw up in an easier, more familiar setting.


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## paddlebizzle (Oct 15, 2003)

Gary E said:


> 1-Go to the rec center and swim laps. Get used to being deprived of oxygen while being physical. Get in shape!


I don't think this can be emphasized enough. Most boaters I know go from snow to the couch to the river. In reality, boating is driving, then sitting on your ass in a boat, and then driving. It's far from aerobic.

Everyone has mentioned great tips about "what to do" and knowing the drills. But, you do yourself a disservice if you can only hold your breath for 20 seconds. You do your buddies a disservice when they're in trouble, and you are dragging your fat ass down the bank to set up a rescue while hyperventilating because you're out of shape.

I've been pinned, and I've done a rescue. Both times I was in shape and ended up completely throttled afterwards. I have no idea how I would have performed in either situation without being in shape.

Same goes for backcountry skiing - Kind of hard to dig someone out because you aren't in shape and can't dig fast enough.


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## DanOrion (Jun 8, 2004)

paddlebizzle said:


> But, you do yourself a disservice if you can only hold your breath for 20 seconds. You do your buddies a disservice when they're in trouble, and you are dragging your fat ass down the bank to set up a rescue while hyperventilating because you're out of shape.


As a little experiment yesterday on this topic...
Holding breath while at rest: 1 minute, no problem
Holding breath while at full aerobic (on a stairmaster baby!): 10 seconds, about to drop

That was very telling. Think dropping into a continuous rapid with no prior eddy-break. You get worked...you're ability to hold on underwater is significantly reduced. Food for thought.


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## milo (Apr 21, 2004)

*......gut feelings...*

...all else being said.....trusting your gut instinct will surely improve your ODDS, if your playing them.....we're all guilty of saying "FUK IT" at the top of a drop and trying to get er' done....ususally works out ok....sometimes not...and the times it did not go down just right....we say, "oh well that's just kayaking".....my worst beat downs came from saying fuk it and not portaging.....should have listened to my GUT.....it's always right...about girls or anything.....now i have troubles trying to figure out...gut feelings VS intimidation....make sense? it does to me....CASE IN POINT: a younger boater was ready to allow me to assist him out of the river...at LARSEN'S LEDGE... in the M-BOX....it was the last thing this boater needed to do(really) to get out safely....he looked down stream(20ft) at the boaters sitting in a SKETCHY little eddy....above and beside certain DOOM....in very non-sugar-coated-manner i told him that life happens in that eddy but beyond it....maybe not!....i read the afforementioned words from his lips..."FUK IT"......he pulls a burning man through the narrow slot-10ft(not thinking) and looses paddle....in a bleeding pool he is upside down...no hand roll...he pulls and in a nanosecond he was bagged by the NEW MEXICO POSSE....sickest bagging i've ever witnessed(TK,ROLF).....this kid was air kicking....the pool had ended in 5 ledge to mank-pot-sieve-mess....he had water under his chest but not his legs or feet....got it....his lower body had past the horizon line!!!!!!...it made me fall to me knees and yell caveman noises....TRUST YOUR GUT FEELINGS....milo


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## COUNT (Jul 5, 2005)

milo said:


> ...all else being said.....trusting your gut instinct will surely improve your ODDS, if your playing them.....we're all guilty of saying "FUK IT" at the top of a drop and trying to get er' done....ususally works out ok....sometimes not...and the times it did not go down just right....we say, "oh well that's just kayaking".....my worst beat downs came from saying fuk it and not portaging.....should have listened to my GUT.....it's always right...about girls or anything.....now i have troubles trying to figure out...gut feelings VS intimidation....make sense? it does to me....CASE IN POINT: a younger boater was ready to allow me to assist him out of the river...at LARSEN'S LEDGE... in the M-BOX....it was the last thing this boater needed to do(really) to get out safely....he looked down stream(20ft) at the boaters sitting in a SKETCHY little eddy....above and beside certain DOOM....in very non-sugar-coated-manner i told him that life happens in that eddy but beyond it....maybe not!....i read the afforementioned words from his lips..."FUK IT"......he pulls a burning man through the narrow slot-10ft(not thinking) and looses paddle....in a bleeding pool he is upside down...no hand roll...he pulls and in a nanosecond he was bagged by the NEW MEXICO POSSE....sickest bagging i've ever witnessed(TK,ROLF).....this kid was air kicking....the


Huge ditto on this one. Over the years, I found I've developed a pretty good river intuition. All of my beatdowns have come when I have not listened to that little voice and usually when I listen, I later learn that I was very glad I did.


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## UserName (Sep 7, 2007)

From personal experience... If you are entraped underwater, it is likely that the current is going fast enough to create a pocket of air on the downstream side. For me it was like a frothy tunnel/cone that extended out about 2-3 feet. My head was under 1.5 minutes and I assure you I exceeded my aerobic threshold in that time. By the way, i survived.


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## brendodendo (Jul 18, 2004)

I am in a conundrum about how to carry all gear on me and in my raft. 

On PFD:
4 Locking carabiners
Spider Rescue Jr Knife
Whistle

On Me:
waist throw bag

sometimes on PFD and sometimes in small dry bag:
yates belay slave
2 pulleys
2 sewn webbing loops

Attached to Boat:
2 standard throw bags
Flip Line

In Small Dry Bag:
4 non-locking carabiners
yates belay slave
2 pulleys
2 sewn webbing loops 
15ft lengh of tubular webbing
Multi Screw driver

In Ammo Car:
standard first aid kit

Ammo Can and dry bag are then located in captains bag attached to a thwart.

So here is my problem: Where should I carry my 
yates belay slave
2 pulleys
sewn webbing loops 

On me or in the dry bag? On me means that they are there for me in a rescue situation after I swim. They make noise and could be a hazard.
In the dry bag means that they are protected, but not available to me if I swim and my boat is wrapped or pinned.

Seems like a better waist throw bag could be designed with added compartments for prussics and pulleys. Also a better flap system for containing the ends of the rope. The down side to this is that the bag is then heavier as a throw bag.

Any ideas?


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## mania (Oct 21, 2003)

brendodendo said:


> On me or in the dry bag? Any ideas?


Probably the boat. hopefully your other boats have this stuff too so if one boat wraps the others can deal with it.


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## UserName (Sep 7, 2007)

...and I like to mount the winch on the front. Doubles as a bow line!


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## Ture (Apr 12, 2004)

You all forgot #1: develop a bomber roll.

If you have a bomber roll then you are not messing around upside down and out of control. Running rapids upside down and swimming in rapids are risky business.

I wish I always had confidence in my roll but I don't... so I work on it at the park until I'm feeling in the zone... then I take my next ass-kicking swim and I'm back at the park again... an endless cycle.


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## mania (Oct 21, 2003)

I want to revisit this because I wonder - would any of these tips we all came up with have helped on the recent accidents or is it all because people who shouldn't have gone went anyway?

it is surely my intention not to place any blame but only to see if any further accidents might be preventable. most of you know swimming is exhausting and can test even fit people. also screening people is very very hard. it is odd how so many people swim all the time and nothing goes wrong - then a string like this.

still looking for ideas. I continue to advocate that everyone be taught the aggressive self rescue including kids. they certainly don't always do it but its something they should know.


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## ActionJackson (Apr 6, 2005)

Was out in Cali a few weeks ago. Did not boat it but hung out at South Silver one day, mainly at Skyscraper. Probably watched about two dozen boaters or more run that drop + Off-Ramp. No trouble except one guy got bounced off line in the middle of the drop (went a couple of feet right of boater in this photo), stuck in that pothole, surfed, flipped, multi roll attempts, finally swam, down time in the aereated water, then washed into next part and pinned face forward. I'm guessing he was 40-45 seconds in and best I could tell, only had one decent breath before he washed out of the pothole.

I was standing directly over him about 20' up with nothing but a camera w/ a dead battery. I could hardly see the top of his helmet while he was pinnedm assumed foot entrapment, and figured that was the end. Lots of folks all around, but no one really in position to help much, myself included. Bad, bad feeling. One throw rope nailed him on the top of his head, but there was no hand to grab it. 

Turns out, he was pinched at the hips between rock, lots of pressure against his back, but was able to prop up on his elbows, grabbing short breaths in an air pocket. After 2-3 "quarter-breaths" as he called them, he was able to lift himself up and out of the pinch with his elbows/shoulders. Went over the bottom tier of the drop looking like a rag doll (I figured he was unconscious), but he started swimming left, grabbed a rope, and to everyone's amazement and relief, seemed to be pretty much fully recovered in 20 mins or so. 

He said afterward that his raft guiding experience - in the water, coming up under/between/around rafts, played a huge factor and helped him to stay calm, and to will himself not to try to suck air when there was only water to breathe.

So Moral 1: Don't assume and never give up! I assumed foot entrapment, which is frequently fatal. I assumed he was getting no air. The drop was highly aereated, and he was face forward, both very much in his favor. Finally, didn't know how he could wash out, but assumed he was unconscious, and was about to wash over Off-Ramp.

Moral 2: Staying calm and keeping your wits about you is huge. Pretty sure I would not have been able to do as well as he did in that situation. As stated above, best way, if not only way to do this, is practice, practice, practice. Along these lines, Doug Ammons has an outstanding article in the current issue of AWA Journal. Find it; read it. Maybe the best single article on boating I've ever read.

Moral 3: Occurred to me later that some Class V/V+ runs are being run so routinely these days (South Silver, Green, etc.), we may be taking a more casual attitude about setting safety on these drops/runs. Most of us that Sunday afternoon were enjoying the show - great entertainment watching folks, for the most part, clean an awesome pair of drops. Certainly all of the boaters were all business when they were running that drop, but no one was set up or positioned for effective safety/rescue. 

As they say, experience is what you get when you get what you don't want. Happy ending on this one, but good lessons re/learned.

Good thread.


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