# Black Boxes San Rafael Swell high water advisement.



## doublet (May 21, 2004)

Thanks for the report. We did a one-day descent on Saturday and I was thinking of posting something similar. Here are my notes:

-The gauge read around 1000 during our descent. Looking at our pictures compared to the pictures in WWSR our 1000 was _significantly_ higher than their flow. I know most of the folks in the images in the book and they all thought the gauge was reading around 1100 or 1200 when the photos were taken. This means the gauge is inconsistent--either because it is 30 miles downstream or because it's in a sandy riverbed and always changing. Regardless, know that 1000 cfs last Saturday was much higher than the flow in the book and I was guessing it was at least 1400 compared to my previous experiences in the boxes.

-That eddy at the rockfall rapid is pretty tense. I was on the sharp end and caught the same lower-eddy with water flowing into the undercut. It's definitely not an easy eddy to catch or an easy spot to exit your boat.

-I wasn't too nervous catching that little eddy as I thought I knew the line in the rockfall drop and if I blew the eddy I'd just run the drop. I was very glad I didn't blow the eddy--it seems that wood has moved out of the sieve and there is a ton of water going underground. I make a lot of questionable decisions in life but I had zero desire to run the rockfall rapid.

-As you said, once the first person gets out it's pretty casual for the followers once there is a shore person to grab their bow.

-We had some nice hole rides in the second box, too. 

-Normally I think of the Boxes as a nice IV+/V- run. Catching that eddy above the rockfall drop is a serious class V move with heavy consequences. Be aware. The seal launch is pretty tense as well. The second box still felt IV+ to me but if you don't have a guide who knows the drops you will probably end up taking some class V lines. It's pretty blind in there.


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## doublet (May 21, 2004)

PS - I just noticed on the gauge that they measured the flow yesterday (note the red asterisk on the gauge). USGS Real-Time Water Data for USGS 09328500 SAN RAFAEL RIVER NEAR GREEN RIVER, UT

I'm thinking this means the flow was indeed off and they adjusted it upward. There wasn't anything else going on that would cause a flow bump yesterday. I bet the true flow in there over the weekend was indeed 1300-1400 and the current readings are now accurate.


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## jmack (Jun 3, 2004)

That gaugeology totally makes sense with what you are describing. Looks like the gauge (now reading 1440) has been corrected. At 450, getting out above Rockfall was totally stress free. The seal launch was definitely 10-15 feet, so you must have had alot of water for it to be only 2-3 feet tall- even though I can understand it due to the river center rock backing up the pool.  It was mainly sketchy at low water because the left slot below the seal launch looked too narrow for a kayak. 

At lower flows, Rockfall was obviously just a gigantic sieve. I had a hard time imagining a good line opening up with more water.

I'll bet that first blind drop in the second box made one hell of a hole.

Glad you guys made it out in one piece.


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## justsammer (Apr 16, 2005)

Doublet, thanks for the additional info. I think we talked to you when you guys were leaving. Thanks for the beta before we put in, it was huge. I see what you're saying about the gauge, so who knows what we had in there, and what the guys from the book description had. After reading what you wrote, I don't doubt those guys, and that that's what their gauge reading was. Who knows if the gauge was wrong when they ran it or we ran it. It also seems like it was continuing to rise from when we saw you guys, to our first day, and to our second day. There was definitely a lot of debris coming down the river with us. So, folks should still heed the advise above, and maybe also that the gauge is unreliable.


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## Meng (Oct 25, 2003)

Damn, sound pretty intense. Glad everyone's ok. Hoping to get in this year....at lower flows (especially now) so thanks for the heads up.


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## justsammer (Apr 16, 2005)

jmack said:


> I'll bet that first blind drop in the second box made one hell of a hole.


Josh, I remember many "hell of a hole"(s). 

Some additional interesting notes, we had a buddy in our group who ran everything. Both portages. Yup. He ran rockfall, got off line, and it was ugly. For a few moments we weren't sure if he was coming out alive. I'm not sure if it would of been less ugly though if he had stayed on line. He also ran the upper mandatory sieve portage. At those flows the right line actually looked alright.


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## kennyv (Jan 4, 2009)

I was in there around a month ago right at 600 cfs and portaging Rockfall was manageable. Getting out of boats was mellow, but based on the photo in WWSR I'd say they ran it at 700+ at least. The drop was not runnable when we were there. The seal launch was about 8 feet or so and was plenty sketchy considering the pool you land in and the water stuffing in the crack on the left. We ran only one drop in the second gorge blind and one guy was able to semi-boatscout it while the rest of us hung on to the canyon walls a bit upstream. Everything else was scoutable. We all thought running it much over 1000 would be really intense. Awesome trip. 600 was plenty of water with little or no scraping. Even at the lower flow, you have to go in there with a can-do/git-r-dun attitude or you will find yourself pretty scared and dealing with many horrible portages. Have fun and be safe. What an awesome place!


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## Cutch (Nov 4, 2003)

doublet said:


> -The gauge read around 1000 during our descent. Looking at our pictures compared to the pictures in WWSR our 1000 was _significantly_ higher than their flow. I know most of the folks in the images in the book and they all thought the gauge was reading around 1100 or 1200 when the photos were taken. This means the gauge is inconsistent--either because it is 30 miles downstream or because it's in a sandy riverbed and always changing. Regardless, know that 1000 cfs last Saturday was much higher than the flow in the book and I was guessing it was at least 1400 compared to my previous experiences in the boxes.
> 
> -That eddy at the rockfall rapid is pretty tense. I was on the sharp end and caught the same lower-eddy with water flowing into the undercut. It's definitely not an easy eddy to catch or an easy spot to exit your boat.
> 
> -I wasn't too nervous catching that little eddy as I thought I knew the line in the rockfall drop and if I blew the eddy I'd just run the drop. I was very glad I didn't blow the eddy--it seems that wood has moved out of the sieve and there is a ton of water going underground. I make a lot of questionable decisions in life but I had zero desire to run the rockfall rapid.


This sums up my memories of that place nicely. We have believed that we had 1100cfs on the gauge when we ran it, but it's been a few years, and gauges change. Surprised to hear that dblT wasn't considering running Rock Fall. When we were there we bounced down the far left channel (30cfs), then skirted the main flow and hit the boof which I think was about 5 feet. Page 509 and 508 of your WWSR, and it shows the seal launch spot too. I scouted and didn't want anything to do with the seal launch. From the pool most of the water exited on the left, where you wanted to be, and I don't remember too much sieve sketchiness, but it could have been underwater. Most of the group made the seal launch look okay from below. I'm sure one rock moving in that rapid could change the place substantially. Rock Fall itself is always class V whether you portage or not it seems. Cool that the other portage could be kayaked well, I guess we should have rated that V+ instead...

For the record, the hike-in option is only for the one-day descent, and even then, might not be worth it. That's why we titled it One Day Mission. We didn't need to rope boats or anything though, but I remember it sucking, and Evan thought it was fine. 

I don't remember specifics about the 2nd box any longer, since we were already racing the afternoon light. There was a few boofs around holes, but no one was getting worked, and they were all mostly one move wonders before ending in a recovery pool. I remember trying to scout, and then still having to run things blind. I felt it all paddled like IV+ when we ran it. 

That run has been high on my to-kayak list this season, and I hope to get in there before the flows drop out to confirm how cool it still is. Thank you for the updates everyone. SYOTR. June 25th Black Boxes anyone?


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## doublet (May 21, 2004)

Yeah, I was sorta expecting to run the Rock Fall rapid. I'm pretty sure it's changed. It looked quite scary to me. I also considered running that first portage as there is enough water now to stay on top of the sieve. My thoughts were "another 200 and that thing would be nice and clean."

Also, regarding the hike in: I remember the hike in described in WWSR as "not as bad as the flatwater." On this trip we were tipped off to a better option that was referred to as the Ali Baba entrance. I highly recommend it. Basically, drive downstream on the river road for 5.2 miles. Make a right down a dirt road in the middle of a wash. After 200 yards the road looks impassable but you can boof right. The road goes all the way to the river and cuts off about 5 miles of flatwater.


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## craporadon (Feb 27, 2006)

Bummer Rock Fall Rapid changed, 12 years ago we ran the left side at 900 and I remember it being no big deal. We ran the Lower Box at 1,600 cfs 3 or 4 years ago and it was really fun big black holes, we had a large group and all agreed it was still IV+ at that level. Like you said you just bomb down it. We went right on every rapid, I remember looking back wishing we had gone left each time, it was'nt until later I read the New Testament said when in doubt go left. I think I would still recommend the lower at high levels for a competent class IV+/V boater, it's not scary at that level, just fun. Glad we did'nt do the upper at 1,600 now, not good to have a sketchy eddy 5 feet from 90% of the water going underground.

Keep an eye on Cottonwood creek in that area for more great IV+, it's about to blow and has'nt blown in a long, long time. Left Hand Huntington also happens to be right there and is like a Class IV Oh Be Joyful Creek.


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## RiverWrangler (Oct 14, 2003)

F&*^&^%$ Sandbaggers!


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## rg5hole (May 24, 2007)

I agree with the whitewater always being at least IV, more like IV+ especially on rising flows.

FJ of our crew (normally silent and happy) screamed with the scalding voice of a father to a young son "don't f*ck around there is a deadly sieve right here" to the rest of our group while portaging the rock slide. This by the way is literally one slip away from killing you (about an 8' circular sieve hole into the abyss). With wet rocks or no eddy I would say that is super f'n sketch. More about that rock fall is that there is a nearly river sized rock backing the whole rapid up (we saw this rock at 450cfs-a good flow), which could be a new addition along with a river left to right shift of the whole rapid? I am sure that downstream rock is complicating the higher water descents. Yeah, the portage there is class V, especially for the last person who has no help.

I read above about scouting and portaging. I would go so far as to say portaging is NOT an option generally speaking, and this definitely should be your mindset. If you are one to portage rapids you should NOT find yourself in a slot canyon with difficult whitewater. That being said there are some necessary portages and scouting, especially in the first box, which are possible. Not so much in the lower box, and I had TR'd that crazy blind horizon in the lower box ran far right against the wall moving left for us at 450cfs. There are several no scouts in the second box but that one gets the blood flowing.

Remember that what make these rapids are thunderous sieves. I had said before that this is not an intermediate run, once again, NOT for the intermediate.

all that being said we are looking to do this run again, it is the SHIT!


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## kevinhindtown (May 2, 2009)

Yeah Russ, like maybe the weekend after this one? But only if it's high enough to consider bypassing the portage (but not high enough to be messing around with the potential of swimming above that damn sieve in Rockfall). Robin needs revenge on that rock in weeping wall as well! 

There are also a LOT of OTHER options out there as well. I'm certainly considering them since the Middle Fork is (according to our TL) a no go...(yeah, can't lie, I'm a bit bummed about that one). So, now got TIME to do something else!

Kev


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## D. Hippie (Feb 18, 2008)

I agree with most of what Sammer said in the trip report. However, as the first one into the eddy at rockfall, it wasn't as bad as he made it sound. I made a bad judgement and got out of my boat before I was completely in the eddy and sank up to my neck. Brian said it looked bad from above, but I just took two strokes and climbed out. No it is not a class 5 move, but if you screw it up you're probably going into the sieve, so definitely very severe consequences. 

The biggest problem I see with higher flows than we had is the seal launch. You get in your boat on top of the rock that makes the sieve. (and its sucking pretty hard. I put my foot down there before Brian ran it to try and figure out what I could do if he went that way. The answer was: Not Much). When someone was getting ready, there was water splashing into their boat. At higher flows, probably 100-200cfs higher than we ran it this won't be available, or it will be even sketchier so you may have to run the drop. 

And from the scout eddy it is extremely difficult to get back upstream far enough to hit the center of the entrance. Brian will know more about this as I was setting safety, but he had two people push him upstream as far as they could. It worked out okay, but as the theme of this rapid says, it was sketchy.

As far as the rapid itself, the center line is the cleanest, but Brian got pushed through the right slot backwards. It looked like it went on the scout, but was really hard to tell. He vanished for about 5 seconds before he got pushed out by the boil in the river right undercut. I had enough time to look downstream to our safety boater and shrug my shoulders to say "WTF do I do?" He rolled up and was fine, but it scared the shit out of me. 

Now that the scare tactics are done, this is the most amazing stretch of river I've ever paddled and would highly recommend it at this flow to a solid crew. But don't be unprepared, and get some good beta. That saved our ass for sure. Thanks to the Utah crew for that.


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## RiverWrangler (Oct 14, 2003)

Thank you D. Hippie for making Cutch and I not look like total D-bags and to Dblet for clarifying the flow situation. Ultimately we are still just ARROGANT SANDBAGGERS, so I would advise not trusting anything in WSR or any guidebook for that matter, figuring the shit out on your own and then not questioning the authors on the buzz afterwards. Go get this one if you have the skills, it is an amazing ultra-committing stretch.


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## justsammer (Apr 16, 2005)

Doesn't seem like an issue to me that people have different opinions about the class rating of a run, or different perspectives of the risks involved, and their comfort levels with them. That's what makes people... people. It's just good to share the beta. Besides that, I think most of us are writing because we enjoy sharing our experience, which is very unique to ourselves.


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## Phillips (Feb 19, 2004)

Agreed. Great discussion on a run that I'd love to hit someday. Sounds amazing.

Kent



justsammer said:


> Doesn't seem like an issue to me that people have different opinions about the class rating of a run, or different perspectives of the risks involved, and their comfort levels with them. That's what makes people... people. It's just good to share the beta. Besides that, I think most of us are writing because we enjoy sharing our experience, which is very unique to ourselves.


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## justsammer (Apr 16, 2005)

Evan, I've just discovered the history and reference you made in your last post about "Arrogant Sandbaggers". I definitely don't want to be a part of that scene. My apologies for making a doubtful reference to the write up in the book. When I said that it made me wonder where the information for the higher flows came from, I really just meant it that it made me wonder. It seemed like there was a mistake made somewhere. Looks like the mistake was likely on my end, by possibly having a major gauge error. I think we had 1400 or so cfs in there. 
cheers


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## craporadon (Feb 27, 2006)

RiverWrangler said:


> Thank you D. Hippie for making Cutch and I not look like total D-bags and to Dblet for clarifying the flow situation. Ultimately we are still just ARROGANT SANDBAGGERS, so I would advise not trusting anything in WSR or any guidebook for that matter, figuring the shit out on your own and then not questioning the authors on the buzz afterwards. Go get this one if you have the skills, it is an amazing ultra-committing stretch.



Ain't nothing wrong with the descriptions in the New Testament. None of this stuff even ran last year so I would definitely make a trip to the Swell this spring if possible. Left Hand, Cottonwood and the Boxes are a perfect 3 day IV+ weekend with some of the best camping in the country. Utah just peaked yesterday and they are starting to shut off the rivers on the western slope. Utards don't even care if Coloraddudes invade.......as long as they're not Routter's.


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## justsammer (Apr 16, 2005)

Just to clarify, so that I don't misrepresent some of the folks in our group... a couple of the paddlers in our group did not feel quite the same level of concern/sketchiness at rock fall, or elsewhere, nor did they feel that they were close to any deathly mistakes around rockfall. The whole lot of us are experienced class 5 boaters, though those guys are more confident/solid boaters than I am, were in control of their actions, and we were glad to have them in our group. It's good to note that they share a different perspective, and would happily recommend this flow to other strong boaters. Just didn't want to misrepresent them. People have different perspectives and they're all valid. Just good to get some info out. We all had an awesome trip, thanks for taking the lead Brian and Scott.


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## Daniel A. (Jul 21, 2005)

I've only been down the Upper Box twice. In 1998 at 850 and this year at 600. Rock fall did seem different this year like either new sieve's opened up or old ones got bigger. Utah River Runner Guide says over 450 the center chute is runnable, but this year at 600 it was not yet good to go. I know the gauge had some serious issues a number of years back, and maybe this and/or a changing riverbed has made a difference in the reading vs the true flow. 
I recalled from '98 that getting out of the tiny scout eddy was truely frightening and I nearly got sucked under the scout rocks, but the center chute run itself was pretty chill. I do remember fighting to stay off the river left undercut wall in the runout, but I don't remember it being as squirrly as it was at 650.
Most of the run had more swirls and boils than I remembered actually, but it was just as awesome and beautiful as I recalled and would recommend the run to boater with the skills and safe attitude necessary.
I will add some more details to the Eddyflower description in the near future. I will consider the above coments and certainly welcome other suggestions. email me at [email protected] with any thoughts, or if you have some pics you would like added to that or the second box detail. Include photographer name, paddler names, rapid name (if not obvious) and any captions if you would like.


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## RiverWrangler (Oct 14, 2003)

Sammer, all in jest. Really I just like saying arrogant sandbaggers over and over again. The Black Boxes are seriously amazing, wish I had time to get out there and do it again. Stoked you guys got it and Doublet too, luckys. Also Carpor is right, combining the Black Boxes with the Left Huntington and cottonwood creek makes a super awesome Utah trip.


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## damax101 (Jul 25, 2006)

I was on this epic adventure with Sammer and crew and didn't think it was quite as bad as Sammer made it seam in his original post. I'm not totally discrediting his recount as this is a committing stretch of river with some serious consequences if one isn't prepared; not only physically but also mentally. 

WWSR provided more than enough beta in my opinion and a chat with Doublet and his crew confirmed most of what we had already thought to expect, but with some clarification and a little more detail that really helped.

Rockfall rapid was definitely the sketchiest part of the run, especially for the first paddler to make it to the eddy having never done it before. I was totally comfortable pulling into said eddy with assistance. The seal launch wasn't as bad as it looked and the boils and turbulent water are something to be expected in a place like that. 

The second box was my favorite, truly amazing canyon with some fun drops. Running blind just makes it that much more exciting! And the float out is so awesome!

I thoroughly enjoyed this run and would totally recommend it even at the higher flows, just know what your getting yourself into. There is still plenty of water in there, get after it!


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## ~Bank (Jul 31, 2010)

I completed a no Portage run of the 40 mile stretch. What an awesome place. The flow was good @ (1300cfs +or - 200cfs). The slots were amazing while very committing. Class five skills will help you out. Class four boaters would be pushing limits. It looked like you would be safe to swim just about anywhere except above any one of the undertows flowing through submerged rocks. Most of the drops have good recovery pools with small beaches or rock piles for gear/boater recovery if you need it. The rapids would run smoother and faster with more water. Portage or die went well on the right, the left line also looked good to go. More water would create new awesome boofs and some larger holes. I scraped a flat hard to see rock in the right side of the hole above the boof in the middle line of Rockfall that robbed me of my speed. I had no other option than to run the right line backwards. Looking over my shoulder I got a good look down the right side from the lip. It looked like you could run the right side forward and up-right with left boat angle without flushing into the undercut like I did backwards left to right. I scouted thoroughly before I decided that the right channel with the undercut looked like it was flushing well enough for me to commit. I knew if I went left it could be worse. Saftey was waiting for me to screw it up at the sieve on the left. I was counting on him to guide me over the seal drop if I went that way. Swimming that way would be shitty if you could not get out. There is a flat pool of water leading to the lip of Rockfall, from there you can see the must make move on the left to catch the eddy. This active avalanche zone should be treated with respect. There are many exciting read and run drops in the boxes. When in doubt go left everywhere except @ Rockfall it’s important to get center or right to avoid the sucking hazard on the left if you miss the scout eddy. The flat water was moving fast and the sightseeing was some of the best I’ve experienced. Great trip with great people, I would be happy to go again. The Black Boxes are an experience that should be enjoyed by every boater who has the skills and mindset.


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## ballen (Sep 16, 2009)

I would just like to add for the record that we ran it on June 10-11. The gage read between 1000 and 1100. Weeping wall was the toughest run as the pourover was a big hole and most of us went for a pretty good ride in there. Rockfall is definately the sketchiest and we all portaged. Getting to that middle boof seemed difficult and the consequences for missing it were high. I thought the take out eddy was easy. We took out on the left above the sieve maybe 10-15 feet and a couple vertical feet. No worries and we did not even assist each other though we did go one at a time. The seal launch for us was about 3-4 feet into boiling water. One of us got sucked back and flipped in that hole but recovered.

The second box had two blind drops at our level, 7-8 great rapids and some good holes. Everything went well though. One of the coolest runs I have ever done.

I thought 1100 was a great level but you do need a solid crew. I would run it a little higher but not much. I am no hard core boater but we did have a few in our group.

One other note I want to make. We did the car camp thing between the boxes and the access road to the car is on the left immediately after the first box ends. We thought it was a couple miles and ended up doing some serious backtracking. Maybe that is because we are idiots but we did figure it out eventually.

Brett


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## craporadon (Feb 27, 2006)

Cottonwood is at 1,000 and is one of the finest Class IV-IV+ rivers in the country right now. Super fun, juicy rapids.

Left Fork Huntington is at the mythical 5 star level from the New Testament, I am not sure how much people have run it at this level before, I have never seen a TR, but we ran it Saturday at 150% of normal and it was an incredible day. Beautiful, juicy slides and top notch river running. It was definite Class 5 teamwork eddy hopping, scouting, routing and moving quick. It took us 4-5 hours and we did'nt screw around. Only 3 log portages and all the drops were clean, but lots of quick scouts for logs. Normally this run is a Class IV OBJ. At this level the rapids were still pretty much IV+ slides with big holes, but the river running was similar to a class V wilderness run where you really have to work as a team scouting for logs and swims could turn bad quick. The times I have done this run I am amazed at how the slides just keep going. When you think you are almost done, you are just getting to some of the bigger ones.

No telling how many years until these runs are at this flow again. Not sure how long they will stay.


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## JDHOG72 (Jul 18, 2007)

Hey Crapor,
Thanks for the Beta. Gonna try to wrangle some folks to head out there. Any beta on upper Ferron creek? No description on eddyflower and I dont have the bible with me. Thanks JD


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## Cutch (Nov 4, 2003)

More beta and updates from the area. 

Austin Woody and I ran the 2nd Black Box on Saturday 6/25. The flow that afternoon while we were on the water was 1820cfs on the gauge. We scouted the 1st box at Rockfall from the rim and it looked huge and unportageable. The 2nd box was pretty intense at that level. The first drop is a stout and blind class V, requiring a center left entrance and plugging under a big hole, then punching a second hole. The second drop has an eddy and a scout vantage. The drop itself has some crazy funny water after it pinches and falls to two sides of a chockstone. It took me a good 20 strokes to clear the choppy slack water. The exit of that drop leads into a sweeping left slot canyon turn about 10 feet wide. The water was boiling off of both walls... super erie. At the third drop (another blind and unportageable) we entered on center left, and then made a move to the right. The fourth drop was a center right to left move of sorts. The 5th or 6th drop is the very pronounced ledge hole on river left (maybe someone can clarify my counting), and we ran a sneak line on the far right. This was the only other drop besides the second that we could easily scout. The 7th drop was particularly unerving since a tree backendered in the holes as we were approaching the lip. We charged center to left. 

I recall 7 large drops that we navigated in the crux of the 2nd box. We were only able to scout two of them. The rapids were big water class V in feel... mostly punching and plugging holes deep as opposed to being able to boof anything. A few of the drops might have been portageable, but the first 3 are not and a swim would be horrifying. The side channels had high risk of sieves so we felt better off taking the center flow meat lines. The paddle in and out are beautiful. The entire run took us just under 4 hours. I don't think I would go in at a level any higher than what we had because the first drop is getting pretty full on, and the 2nd drop seems like it could be a no go at certain levels (because you can't paddle downstream out of the eddy water).

On Sunday we were fortunate enough to enjoy Cottonwood Creek's Straight Canyon in the morning, and that run is super high quality. We hit LF Huntington in the afternoon, and I can confirm that it was definitely at a five star level. The slides are tons of fun. We had three portages around wood, boofed over two logs, and everything ran smooth. We had a good vibe about the wood situation and used the force so we didn't scout. We ran Cottonwood Creek in about 45 minutes and LF Hungtington in 1 hour, so strong groups certainly have plenty of time to run laps, and/or run both in the same day. 

Utah is the shit right now. Get some!


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## kennyv (Jan 4, 2009)

Cutch and Crapador: Thanks for the TR's. LF is next on the list. 
JDHog: Ferron isn't in WWSR, but it's in the Utah book by Nichols. I ran lower Ferron a few weeks ago at (600-800) and it was fast, class IV mank. We intended to run the lower, then the upper, but opted for two laps on the lower since it was running so high. We put-in at the campground and took out at the gauge.


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## peernisse (Jun 1, 2011)

justsammer said:


> Five of us ran the Black Boxes of the San Rafael Swell a couple days ago, on June 12 and 13th. The flow was between 1000 and 1100 cfs. I want to give people a heads up, so as that they're not mislead. I can't recommend this flow to anyone, unless you've done it before at this level, and know exactly what to expect.
> 
> We had a great experience, and it is a beautiful place and river. However, we we're glad to be out safely.
> 
> ...




Hmmm. What I am hearing a lot of from almost everyone on these posts is that the WWSR book does not accurately describe this run. I have never seen that book, I went with the River Runner's Guide to Utah by Gary Nichols. Anyway, yeah, that is a run NOT to be caught off guard in by a sandbagging book. Too bad about that book, but its good that you have put out this post. Cheers.


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## craporadon (Feb 27, 2006)

Penisee, if you read the book you would see it is right on the money. Strange to comment on a book you have never seen. The thing may be that the boaters think they have mad skills b/c they ran the Gore Rapid sneak so that pretty much makes them a class V boater, then when they get on real-deal juicy class IV+ in a remote environment they cry for their Boulder Sugar Mama's and call the authors Sandbaggers. Maybe, just maybe.

That's funny Cutch that we thought lower box at 1650 was just clean fun but LFH took us 4 hrs. That is so badass you had the force with you on Lefty. We had moments of the force in our group, but not the overall log chakra blessing from the dahli lama. So much fun in there from the 1st drop to the last. Maybe since its slides they don't seem to collect wood in bad spots. Stoked you made it out. Bummed we just missed you.


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## Nathan (Aug 7, 2004)

Good thing those sandbagging authors aren't around to chime in about it...

Did you bother to read any of the posts by Cutch? In case you missed it he is one of the sandbagging authors.


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## david kashinski (Sep 13, 2006)

I have just done a Black Boxes trip on Wed. and Thur. the 13th and 14th of July. At the Rockfall Portage, at the major falls there was just one rock sticking out of the water. It was on the left side and I was able to put in in a cave and run a far left slot and then the rest of the rapid. Any body have an impression of this flow? I suppose I should post a photo when I get the chance..... Leaving on the Grand Canyon in the AM.......
My other question is, have the two logs across the canyon been in the exit to the upper box very long? I had to get on my back deck to slide under the highest spot!!
About the guage. My impression after paddling out of there is that the flats down there take in a HUGE amount of water and disipate it before the guage gets an accuate interpretation of what is in the canyons. My experience of coming out of the last canyon and having a high water mark of flood mud that was six feet high and that same mark was only about 6-8 inches a half mile above the bridge at I-70 where the guage is. I think those flats store a ton of water and the sediment has to play a big role in what is going past?.....


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## kennyv (Jan 4, 2009)

David:

I checked the gauge on the 13th and 14th and it was reading around 1000 on the 13th and over 1200 on the 14th. I did the run awhile ago at around 600 and we had no trouble getting under the logs at the end of the first box, which leads me to believe you did the run when it was pretty high. We didn't even have to stoop to get under those logs. Also, I just passed over the San Raf. on I-70 last week and there's still alot of backwater out of the banks, which might inflate the gauge as the level comes down. All of the headwaters streams are now on the way down (unfortunately). There seems to still be plenty of water in there for now. How were the bugs? I might try to get a second trip in there as it comes down. 

thanks for the update,
kenny


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