# Perimeter Line setup



## fourwheeler081 (May 18, 2018)

Setting up a perimeter line for 1st time. I have 5/8" polypro line. I soaked 1st then wrapped around each D ring as snug as possible, but i still feel like there is too much play in the line. Any advise to make a tighter perimeter would be much appreciated as i do not want to create an entrapment issue.

Thanks,

Ken


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## jonseim (May 27, 2006)

I've tightened it as much as I can with the boat partially inflated and then inflate it fully to stretch and tighten it.
What I have now is a strap and a round ring that is adjustable.
Anchor the line at one end. Thread the rope through and when you get to the end of the line, tie a round ring in there with a figure 8 or other knot you love. Leave it a decent distance from the end point you desire.
Take a cam strap and thread it through your round ring and the last d ring you want on your perimeter line and tighten her up.

Both ways together work great.
May take a few tries tying the knot as the cam strap pulls a lot of slack out.
Let me know if you need a picture, send me a pm with your phone number and I'll text you one as we're on the road in about an hour.
Jon


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## theusualsuspect (Apr 11, 2014)

While not directly answering your question, webbing with a tri-glide and a cam buckle works well and allows you to adjust it easily within seconds. I know you're asking about rope but thought I'd throw the webbing option out there as well.


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## Conundrum (Aug 23, 2004)

Another option to the ring and cam strap but very similar is to leave the rope too long. Same setup, soak the rope, set it up with the boat partially inflated but instead of a ring and cam, leave a tail through the final D ring. Then, go back and tie a butterfly knot a couple feet from the final D ring. Loop the tail of the rope back through the butterfly and tension it similar to a Z drag. Stack a few clove hitches to keep tension and take up the tail of the rope.

Plus, standard 5/8" poly boat line has about twice the tensile strength of a 1" cam strap. In my opinion, the rope handles sun degradation a little better than cam straps. The bend around D rings is a weak point though so it might be a moot point. Not really sure and this is really overthinking it. 

Nothing wrong with the cam strap option and now you have two ways to solve the problem. 

Now that my gf is fly fishing, I've switched to tubular webbing for the perimeter. It snags flies less which is good for her frustration levels. And 1" nylon webbing has about a 1,000 lb higher tensile than 5/8" rope and bends nicely over the D rings. You can set it up as mentioned above with a triglide and buckle. I can't remember the knots I used on mine but it's holding tight after a couple years.


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## MontanaLaz (Feb 15, 2018)

I use 1" tubular webbing and run it through the cam end of a 2' loop strap and just sacrifice the other side of the loop strap. Fast, adjustable, reasonably cheap, and no knots to mess with. I threw some rubber cam buckle covers on for good measure.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

Same as MontanaLaz: 1" tubular webbing. I bought cam buckles from Strapworks and stitched them on.

32' for my Aire 13.0 Trib, 40' for my 156R


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## Andy H. (Oct 13, 2003)

Tubular webbing here too. I'm not sure I would want to have a cam strap in the chain as it could be a significantly weaker part of the system than the rope or webbing you're using.

Another tip is that when you're rigging your bow line, make sure the caribiner is clipped into your perimeter line as well as your D-ring on the bow. That way, if you've got a lot of force on the bow line (say your boat is pinned or it's upside down and you're pulling to shore in swift current) you won't just pull the D-ring off but will be clipped into a sturdy line going through all the D-rings to distribute the force. 

-AH


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## Panama Red (Feb 10, 2015)

Deflate your boat a bit. It’s easier to get it tight.


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## caverdan (Aug 27, 2004)

I use flat webbing too. It's the way to go.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

Andy H. said:


> Tubular webbing here too. I'm not sure I would want to have a cam strap in the chain as it could be a significantly weaker part of the system than the rope or webbing you're using.
> 
> Another tip is that when you're rigging your bow line, make sure the caribiner is clipped into your perimeter line as well as your D-ring on the bow. That way, if you've got a lot of force on the bow line (say your boat is pinned or it's upside down and you're pulling to shore in swift current) you won't just pull the D-ring off but will be clipped into a sturdy line going through all the D-rings to distribute the force.
> 
> -AH



Have you had breakage issues with cam straps in similar applications?


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## Andy H. (Oct 13, 2003)

MT4Runner said:


> Have you had breakage issues with cam straps in similar applications?


No, but my understanding is that most cam straps are rated for much less than a section of tubular webbing (just look at them side by side). So a camstrap with a strength of 800 lbs, for example would be a very weak link in the system with 1" tubular webbing rated at 4,000 lbs. In the event of a flip or wrap, it's easy enough to find ourselves relying on pieces of gear that are not meant for the force they're subjected to. A standard throw bag isn't rated at 1,600lbs  to simply pull a swimmer to shore - that rope is there to be subjected to much more in an emergency. 

Being able to tighten a loose perimeter line with a tug on a camstrap sounds great to me, but in practice it may not be the best solution.

Like everything, it all comes down to the intended use - if you're only doing family floats on Class I/II there's very little potential for a flip or wrap and you'll probably never test that camstrap. If you're running the big stuff, it could be a weak link in the system that you should consider eliminating.

Be safe out there,

-AH


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

Aha, good point.

I've sewn my cam buckle into my tubular webbing--so there's no strap in the loop, but the cam would likely be weaker than tubing with a figure-8 knot in it.

Also consider that when a perimeter line is generally installed taut, if it's clipped to in a rescue situation, the angle is often obtuse--putting a HUGE strain on the perimeter line.
https://www.ropebook.com/information/vector-forces/


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## Conundrum (Aug 23, 2004)

If we want to get super nerdy, take a look at the tensile strength of 1" polypro (standard NRS cam strap) vs 1" polyester straps. Polyester is about 4x the tensile strength and close to nylon tubular webbing. Also about 3x the cost per foot. I just gave a Christmas gift of polyester cams straps for my boat last year. They last about 3x as long as standard cams you see all over the river. Also got a unique color that I know none of my friends have so I'm hoping over the years I break even by not having straps end up in my buddies' bags and I'm not breaking as many.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

I had thought NRS straps were polyester?

Polypro straps are not that strong--nor abrasion-resistant, nor UV-resistant. But they do float (but not enough to float the buckle!)

My bad, NRS Straps ARE polypro
https://www.nrs.com/product/1450/nrs-1-heavy-duty-webbing


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## theusualsuspect (Apr 11, 2014)

1" webbing at 4,000lb tensile strength vs. 1" tuff river stuff strap at 2800lb tensile strength. Point taken, and if I were a real boater doing big water that had a potential of testing my gear I'd make changes. Certainly the convenience factor is huge for me since I'm not too worried about being in a situation to test those strength numbers on a regular basis with the 3 kids.


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## brendodendo (Jul 18, 2004)

Tubular (climbing webbing), Wet Webbing, boat slightly deflated, tied tight with a water knot. I loop my d rings. Replace when faded or middle stringer (different color string) is broken in one or more places. I also run a belly strap under the boat and 6ft tag lines fore and aft.


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## Conundrum (Aug 23, 2004)

None of us are real boaters. Just a bunch of Russian bots created to force you to question your perimeter line. There’s nothing wrong with the way you’re doing things. The internet was created to nitpick small details. Your masculinity is secure even with a 1,200 lb less tensile strength.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

Brilliant idea I had at 4 AM: use a webbing for a perimeter line connected to itself with a figure 8 follow-through, and use a cam strap to take up the slack.

I far prefer tubular webbing, it is much easier on your knuckles than 5/8 rope when paddling


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## zcollier (Jan 1, 2004)

Here's a podcast episode about "danger ropes" you might enjoy:

No. 18: Danger Ropes vs Perimeter Lines | River Talk


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## bboyes (Aug 19, 2017)

*Guess I've been doing it wrong all these years*

I've always used the cheap crappy rope from Home Depot, fat and soft so easy to grab, plus colorful. Throw it away after a few years. Why does it have to be tight? I want it to be easy to grab which means not tight. How would you get entrapped? I have never worried about that. Seems unlikely. We've had a lot of young kids and newbies in class 1-3 whitewater and this sloppy approach has worked well. I tie it to one D ring and then weave the rest through until it's used up (50? 75? Whatever the hanks are at HD) so part of the boat gets a double line, then tie the end off. Bonus feature: this loose perimeter can make a usable sling for shipping the oars on the sides of the boat.


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## OregonianRG (Jun 14, 2010)

I need to tighten my perimeter line after reading these posts. My line has a loop through each D ring, but it is still too loose. It is only 20 years old. Thank you for the post.


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## Conundrum (Aug 23, 2004)

bboyes said:


> I've always used the cheap crappy rope from Home Depot, fat and soft so easy to grab, plus colorful. Throw it away after a few years. Why does it have to be tight? I want it to be easy to grab which means not tight. How would you get entrapped? I have never worried about that. Seems unlikely. We've had a lot of young kids and newbies in class 1-3 whitewater and this sloppy approach has worked well. I tie it to one D ring and then weave the rest through until it's used up (50? 75? Whatever the hanks are at HD) so part of the boat gets a double line, then tie the end off. Bonus feature: this loose perimeter can make a usable sling for shipping the oars on the sides of the boat.


Any strap or rope loose enough to fit an appendage through is an entrapment hazard. I'm fairly conservative when it comes to safety though. "Seems unlikely" in my opinion is a dangerous statement around water. And kids. But, hey, I don't have kids.

Edit-https://www.americanwhitewater.org/content/Wiki/safety:start III. #6 NOLS and pretty much every other outfitter and safety instructor says the same thing. If you're not going to have the line taut, don't have a line. A lot of outfitters won't put perimeter lines on their boats because of the hazards presented.


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## markhusbands (Aug 17, 2015)

I used two cheap boatlines girth hitched on one end and clove hitched to carabiners on the other. Easy to snug up. Runs closer to my valves than I'd like.


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## almortal (Jun 22, 2014)

Plus one for the tubular webbing and cam strap. As the webbing stretches when wet it is easy to take in the slack to get it perfectly taught. Also it is nicer on the hands. 
I am not sure why there is such concern here regarding the strength of the webbing vs. rope. The only use of a perimeter (chicken) line I am familiar with is to pull oneself into the boat from the water, and I don't know any 1000 pound boaters. Perhaps y'all are using it for something that requires much greater structural integrity? At that point don't the d-rings become a weakest link?


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## Conundrum (Aug 23, 2004)

We’re probably talking about tensile strength because we like dorking out and talking about such things. If we didn’t want to chat, we could have easily told the original poster to use the search function or to even cast a broader net and read one of the 100s of threads on the internet regarding chicken/perimeter lines. 

There really isn’t concern over a cam strap vs webbing unless there’s a situation where someone inadvertently anchors mechanical advantage to a chicken line and that’s a whole other topic.


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## kayak007 (Feb 16, 2016)

Here is a short clip showing an interesting use of the perimeter line to get back into your raft.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

bboyes said:


> Why does it have to be tight? I want it to be easy to grab which means not tight. How would you get entrapped? I have never worried about that. Seems unlikely. We've had a lot of young kids and newbies in class 1-3 whitewater and this sloppy approach has worked well. I tie it to one D ring and then weave the rest through until it's used up


That big 5/8" nylon line from Home Depot is hard on your knuckles if you're running a paddle boat. The flat tubular webbing is mo better for fingers/thumbs.


I also like to tuck my oars in my perimeter line, but it hasn't been an inordinate struggle to pull back the taut line and drop the oar blade in!




markhusbands said:


> I used two cheap boatlines girth hitched on one end and clove hitched to carabiners on the other. Easy to snug up. Runs closer to my valves than I'd like.


I also wish the Drings were a bit lower or the valves a bit higher for the same reason. Even 2".


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## brendodendo (Jul 18, 2004)

bboyes said:


> Why does it have to be tight? I want it to be easy to grab which means not tight. How would you get entrapped? I have never worried about that. Seems unlikely. We've had a lot of young kids and newbies in class 1-3 whitewater and this sloppy approach has worked well.


I could bash this comment, but I won't. I'll tell you a story instead. Medium sized boat floating down the river. Perimeter line a little loose. Boat flips in a medium(ish) rapid. Buddy falls over the side, but the boat had taco'd front to back, creating a larger loop in between the central D rings. As boat flips and buddy falls out, perimeter line goes under his neck, the boat across his back. He is now under the boat, chicken line under his neck. Held underwater, dark and panicky. The boat had flipped over him, so he was positioned under the perimeter line from the outside, effectively trapped under the boat. He tries to move line under his chin to escape, but his helmet has a brim and the perimeter rope keeps catching on his chin and the helmet brim. He finally pulls out his knife and cuts the perimeter line to escape. We were all in the water or on the bottom of the boat and did not realize what was really happening in the moment. 
Would you kids have been calm enough to get themselves out of a situation like this? Do they carry a decent river knife? Remember, we are all in between swims.


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## Skyman (Jun 26, 2006)

We can even take this one step further. Keep your bow lines tidy. Either keep them in a bowline bag, or tuck them under your perimeter line on the outside of your boat, neatly looped. The bow line is a major entrapment hazard. A guy died on the middle fork a couple of years ago in a flip. One of the passengers got caught up in the bowline. FWIW.


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