# Cold weather boating/camping gear and strategies?



## raferguson1 (Feb 13, 2007)

I have a Deso-Gray launch permit in October; the average low in Green River UT in October is 37F. I have not done any cold weather boating, although I have seen ice in the bottom of the boat occasionally. My big concern is not 37F, but if it is significantly colder.

I have a drysuit, which I think would be essential. But what should I do for gloves/mittens? Pogies don't work with single bladed paddles. In general, I am a fan of mittens, usually with lanyards so I don't lose them.

My NRS River boots are always wet at the end of the day. It is a bit hard to imagine getting in them if it is freezing out, and perhaps impossible if they are frozen solid. If it was going to be really cold, the boots would go in a plastic bag, and inside the tent, or even in my sleeping bag. The vestibule may be adequate if it is not going to be below freezing. (I have a lot of experience cold weather camping on snow). 

I did see an interesting suggestion to bring a small propane tank and one of the little propane heaters. That would seem to be feasible, and a very nice luxury, especially in the morning. Maybe use it to dry gear...... I would not put a heater in a tent, seems too dangerous. The alternative would be campfires, although I usually do not light a campfire. The worst case scenario might be 40F and rain...

I think that the approach used on Grand Canyon raft trips in the winter will not work with canoes, but maybe there are things that I can learn there...

I imagine that one would not get really early starts, but I don't know that one can wait for the sun to hit the tent, especially in a canyon. I suppose that one might try to choose campsites with morning sun.


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## sporkfromork (Dec 16, 2020)

I can say that I have the NRS Maxim and the NRS Maverick gloves and while the Maxim is advertised as "warmer" but having "less dexterity", that's not true. The Maxim is both warmer and more comfortable, just get that. I still have the Mavericks but I never use them, too weird of a material and too hard to get on and off. If something actually happens and you need to use your fingers, gloves are way better than pogies or mittens. I kayak and raft and the golves are my preference if it's really actually cold, pogies are for cold water but not really cold air imo.

Hopefully if you're in a raft you can keep your drysuit dry so it doesn't freeze up, but your shoes are bound to freeze and pouring some hot water over them and the feet of your drysuit should make life more tolerable in the early morning. Don't even bother with a plastic bag, just heat up water on the stove and pour it on your clothes. Long underwear obviously key for drysuit and sleeping, and a metal waterbottle in a sock with hot water in it can help at night for about 4-5 hours. Your shoes and drysuit socks are gonna get wet putting in/out and being in a self bailer anyways so just have warm socks and deal with it.

Headwear obviously critical to prevent hypothermia if you do get wet or flip in cold weather paddling. The NRS one with just the small chin strap is worth every penny for like $35 or something, but I like the Immersion Research "Thermo Cap" one better. It's not as warm as the NRS one but it's warm enough and more comfy, less restricting. Would be better for a rafter wanting to plan for colder-than-expected. With hat, gloves, and drysuit layering, you can be surprisingly warm, even too much, depends on how wet you think you are going to get.

If you don't have your winter camping gear dialed in, bring a comforter to throw on top of your normal sleeping bags. Still, as a kayaker I always plan for the coldest possible conditions i might encounter, and also the event of swimming or being involved in an extended rescue where your fingers might freeze if you are dealing with ropes for an hour. As a raft trip leader you're not as wet as in a kayak, but you still need to be prepared to deal with worse-case extended-cold situations where you might have to unpin a boat or have kids or lesser abled people who need help. 

Don't bring a propane heater. Have fun


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

bought these for last years February Grand trip, absolutely love them








Waterproof Extreme Cold Weather Down Mitten


A lightweight, totally waterproof, breathable and windproof mitten designed for the coldest of conditions. Featuring Downtek water repellent insulation which provides high levels of warmth and will remain drier for longer, making them a fantastic lightweight, cold weather glove.




www.sealskinzusa.com


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## PDX Duck (Mar 17, 2015)

I am a big fan of the Mr Heater Big Buddy and think the ‘risks’ are manageable. Whether you decide to run it all night or for a few hours PM then AM it is quite nice!


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## Andy H. (Oct 13, 2003)

Bring a thermos or two for hot tea during the day.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

If you winter camp on snow, you know it's all about moisture management. I like the idea of booties in a plastic bag in your tent so they don't freeze.

A pop-up-pit is a great way to dry gear laid out under the fire pit during dinner/cocktails.

Mr Buddy propane heaters are direct fired and their combustion byproduct is carbon dioxide and water vapor. They will absolutely warm your gear, but they won't dry it. Great to take the chill off in the evening or morning, or to change clothes, but a horrible idea from a moisture management perspective to run them overnight (not to mention Carbon Monoxide risk).

Agree with spork's suggestion of a comforter over your sleeping bag. I've found that I'm using a wool Army blanket more and more in addition to my bag. It's warm when wet, it breathes, and it's super easy to bridge the comfort zones of a sleeping bag. You can use the blanket alone, the sleeping bag alone, the sleeping bag unzipped with a blanket to control the draft, or the blanket burrito wrapped around the bag for max comfort. The secret is to turn the blanket 45° to wrap a corner under your toes, side corners around your body, and another corner up over your head...or maybe that's just how I have to use it when I'm 6'-5"!

Tea is great, even if you don't like tea. If your hands or booties are cold, you can always pour some tea over them or hold the warm cup. It doesn't get as nasty if forgotten in your thermos as coffee.

Mittens are awesome. Add some tool dip or aquaseal to the palms if they're slippery. Cold temp surfboard wax also works great on the paddle handle.

Camp on the sunny side of the river, and if you get a window of blue sunshine, pull over and dry your gear.

Nothing beats a hot tent and a wood stove.


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## LSB (Mar 23, 2004)

I have one of these and it kicks ass. But be careful I knocked mine over on the Smith last spring and I still have a scar on my leg that looks like I touched the pipe on a dirtbike.


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## kayakfreakus (Mar 3, 2006)

Warm water in the hand washing stations is a new trick I saw on my last grand and will be using it again. Both at the kitchen and at the groover is awesome.


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## codycleve (Mar 26, 2012)

I second that nothing beats a hot tent and a wood stove. I own a couple of the seek outside tip and mega mid style tents and they have changed my winter camping.. I realize this is not an option for everyone so some additional tips that dont involve that. Boil water and pour it in a nalgene all the way to the top so there is no air gap. throw it in the bottom of your sleeping bag it will stay warm almost the entire night.. Make sure you have a good nalgene with tight seal.


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## codycleve (Mar 26, 2012)

I also wear wool socks with toasty toes in my dry suite..


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## WillEChronic (Oct 4, 2016)

PDX Duck said:


> I am a big fan of the Mr Heater Big Buddy and think the ‘risks’ are manageable. Whether you decide to run it all night or for a few hours PM then AM it is quite nice!


I have a 3 year old that I brought out camping this past fall on Colorado River. We have the Buddy heater, smaller version of the Big Buddy and it fits in my drybox. We were able to camp with the tent door wide open and we were toasty all night!!! In the morning there was frost on the raft, but we were not having any issues at all sleeping. I feel like Joe Camper with the buddy heater but it did make for happy kiddo that can't wait for another raft trip this spring! The 1lb tanks will run out in 4-6 hours so I recommend getting a 10lb or 20lb propane tank with a 10 or 12 foot hose to make sure you have enough propane to get thru the nights. That way you can leave the propane outside the tent. I also make sure to have a fire retardant on the ground in case of emergency. The buddy heater will shut off it moved but want something to protect the tent if perhaps I'm an idiot and knock it over. Gotta also make sure you are under 7500 feet as there is low oxygen safety shutoff.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

WillEChronic said:


> I have a 3 year old that I brought out camping this past fall on Colorado River. We have the Buddy heater, smaller version of the Big Buddy and it fits in my drybox. We were able to camp with the tent door wide open and we were toasty all night!!! In the morning there was frost on the raft, but we were not having any issues at all sleeping. I feel like Joe Camper with the buddy heater but it did make for happy kiddo that can't wait for another raft trip this spring! The 1lb tanks will run out in 4-6 hours so I recommend getting a 10lb or 20lb propane tank with a 10 or 12 foot hose to make sure you have enough propane to get thru the nights. That way you can leave the propane outside the tent. I also make sure to have a fire retardant on the ground in case of emergency. The buddy heater will shut off it moved but want something to protect the tent if perhaps I'm an idiot and knock it over. Gotta also make sure you are under 7500 feet as there is low oxygen safety shutoff.


They're radiant heaters...they heat what they are facing, not the air, so that's a GREAT solution! Door open provides plenty of oxygen for both you and the heater, and it lets respiration and combustion moisture out.


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## raymo (Aug 10, 2008)

Those radiant(infrared) heater's work great, I owned two of them, now just one. A word of caution about, using them in a tent while you sleep. I was useing one in the garage to heat my back side, while sitting at the work bench cleaning my chainsaw. When I stood up and turned around the heater attached to a 20 lb tank had a 2 to 3 foot flame burning straight up from the mesh part. I reach down and shut the valve off. How long the flame was burning for I don't know. I bought them from Home Depo.


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## dkingslc (May 22, 2020)

codycleve said:


> seek outside tipi


That was an hour long time suck portal. I've been a Springbar guy my whole life but that just rocked my mind. Christmas is coming...


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## LJPurvis (Apr 12, 2017)

I have found a BIG difference when using my cat on a cold trip vs the raft. With the cat my feet got cold no matter what I did/wore. I have a dry suit, cold weather socks, diving boots, etc. Just didn't matter. I had to stop every 30 minutes or so and do jumping jacks.
I use the Mr. Buddy propane heater in my tent. I turn it on when I head into the tent to warm things up. I turn it off just before I go to sleep. If I get too cold in the middle of the night (which almost never happens) I will turn it on for 10-15 minutes. I then turn it on about 15 minutes before I get off my cot to warm up the tent so I can get dressed comfortably.
With my cot, in the hot weather I do not put down a paco pad as I want the air flow beneath me. In cold weather I put down the paco pad. I then use flannel sheets inside my sleeping bag with a blanket that I can pull over everything if I need it.
I use cold weather fishing gloves. I have several pair of different makes and manufacturers. I cannot remember each but I take all of them on a trip and trade out as one gets wet/cold.
I do have flannel to wear under my drysuit. I have a friend that wears goulashes/irrigation boots on his raft over his drysuit. I might try that.
One thing that I haven't tried but plan on doing on my next cold weather trip is having my jetboil stove in an easy to get location and heating up some tea when we stop; just something warm during lunch.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

LJPurvis said:


> I have found a BIG difference when using my cat on a cold trip vs the raft. With the cat my feet got cold no matter what I did/wore. I have a dry suit, cold weather socks, diving boots, etc. Just didn't matter. I had to stop every 30 minutes or so and do jumping jacks.


I probably sound like a koolaid salesman or a cult preacher, but seriously try a dory. Even warmer/drier feet than in a raft.

[/quote]One thing that I haven't tried but plan on doing on my next cold weather trip is having my jetboil stove in an easy to get location and heating up some tea when we stop; just something warm during lunch.[/QUOTE]

That's a brilliant idea.


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## LJPurvis (Apr 12, 2017)

MT4Runner said:


> I probably sound like a koolaid salesman or a cult preacher, but seriously try a dory. Even warmer/drier feet than in a raft.


I like the dory idea. My only experience rowing a dory was on Henry's Fork fly-fishing. That thing handled like a Ferrari. It took some getting used to as a "small" tug on the oars and it turned/accelerated so dang fast I had to learn to temper my strength. It was a fun and awesome boat.


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## WillEChronic (Oct 4, 2016)

raymo said:


> Those radiant(infrared) heater's work great, I owned two of them, now just one. A word of caution about, using them in a tent while you sleep. I was useing one in the garage to heat my back side, while sitting at the work bench cleaning my chainsaw. When I stood up and turned around the heater attached to a 20 lb tank had a 2 to 3 foot flame burning straight up from the mesh part. I reach down and shut the valve off. How long the flame was burning for I don't know. I bought them from Home Depo.


Is this the same model/design that put out the 2-3 foot flame?


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## raymo (Aug 10, 2008)

WillEChronic said:


> Is this the same model/design that put out the 2-3 foot flame?
> 
> View attachment 61804


No, it was this one.


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## mtriverrat (Jan 29, 2012)

raferguson1 said:


> I have a Deso-Gray launch permit in October; the average low in Green River UT in October is 37F. I have not done any cold weather boating, although I have seen ice in the bottom of the boat occasionally. My big concern is not 37F, but if it is significantly colder.
> 
> I have a drysuit, which I think would be essential. But what should I do for gloves/mittens? Pogies don't work with single bladed paddles. In general, I am a fan of mittens, usually with lanyards so I don't lose them.
> 
> ...


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## mtriverrat (Jan 29, 2012)

So living in MT and having done many snowy Smith trips and having done Deso/gray I would give this advice: the bigger issue on Deso for us was wind. Be careful with anything that might blow over because it can blow like you can’t believe. As for gear wool, wool, and more wool. Long underwear, beanie, socks, blanket over your sleeping bag.


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## nikki naiser (Jun 22, 2009)

raferguson1 said:


> I have a Deso-Gray launch permit in October; the average low in Green River UT in October is 37F. I have not done any cold weather boating, although I have seen ice in the bottom of the boat occasionally. My big concern is not 37F, but if it is significantly colder.
> 
> I have a drysuit, which I think would be essential. But what should I do for gloves/mittens? Pogies don't work with single bladed paddles. In general, I am a fan of mittens, usually with lanyards so I don't lose them.
> 
> ...





raferguson1 said:


> I have a Deso-Gray launch permit in October; the average low in Green River UT in October is 37F. I have not done any cold weather boating, although I have seen ice in the bottom of the boat occasionally. My big concern is not 37F, but if it is significantly colder.
> 
> I have a drysuit, which I think would be essential. But what should I do for gloves/mittens? Pogies don't work with single bladed paddles. In general, I am a fan of mittens, usually with lanyards so I don't lose them.
> 
> ...


Muck boots for rigging and camp. I've used these on winter Grand trips and early season Middle Fork. Don't float in them, of course, but they really keep your feet warm outside of the boat, and in standing water while rigging.


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## peernisse (Jun 1, 2011)

raferguson1 said:


> I have a Deso-Gray launch permit in October; the average low in Green River UT in October is 37F. I have not done any cold weather boating, although I have seen ice in the bottom of the boat occasionally. My big concern is not 37F, but if it is significantly colder.
> 
> I have a drysuit, which I think would be essential. But what should I do for gloves/mittens? Pogies don't work with single bladed paddles. In general, I am a fan of mittens, usually with lanyards so I don't lose them.
> 
> ...


you’ll have a great trip, October Is perfect for deso, Westwater or cat. Have fun.


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## cake (Jun 21, 2011)

I did a desogray trip over halloween into NOV a couple years ago. I slept on my boat every night, and don't recall it being overly cold, despite a layer of frost on my bedding every morning. I lived in my muck boots half the time. The dishwash water was warmed, which was really nice. I even bought NRS gloves for the occasion, but never wore them. No one had heaters or anything like that. Just whiskey and fire. I brought an extra container to take hot coffee to go on the river.

The cottonwoods were popping off, it was awesome!







!


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

Deso in October rocks, crisp cool mornings, 60 to 70 during the day, I can remember coming around a corner one morning to a heard of Elk watering by the river, one year we woke to 6 inches of snow on the boats, another year we had 60 mile an hour constant winds all afternoon and thru the night, so a large tarp was key to cooking and eating. Be prepared for any weather, go and enjoy the solitude and serenity. Most trips we never saw a soul.


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