# Packing on floor of raft



## lhowemt

What's everyone's opinion on loading gear on the floor of a self bailing raft? Some people I talk to always hang their gear from the tubes, some always just put their gear on the floor. Seems like even if the stuff at the bottom is soft, the weight is going to do the same thing to the inflatable floor, increase the pressure and make it easier to pinch?


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## Andy H.

You'll get lots of die-hards that say you should never put ANY items in the bottom of a raft. I think this may be a hold-over from the pre SB days when any item on the floor (especially hard things, posed a risk of ripping the floor if you hit a rock. 

Personally: I'll put drybags with soft items in them on the floor, always washing any sand off of them before loading and lashing in. Hard items should be hung from the frame as high above the floor as possible. The SB floor of my Vanguard is about 8" thick.

Looking forward to hearing what others say on this issue!

-AH


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## storm11

Be wary the crushed beer can as well. I've seen a fair share of PBR can divots on floors.


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## oarbender

Im agree with Andy 100%. I also look forward to other posts.


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## ecjohnson

I hang the cooler and box off of the frame, along with whatever I can rig that way. I always try to keep soft things (dry bags, etc) on the floor, but I have put hard things on the floor as long as they don't have sharp edges. I know I've put water jugs on the floor. I also don't think twice when I throw a 30 rack of PBR on the floor. I'm a big fan of cargo floors, even just getting things a couple inches up works for me.


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## RealitySheriff

Suspended cargo floors are the way to go. I added a couple of extra d-rings to the bow and stern to allow me to hang the floors evenly a couple inches from the floor of the raft. The hanging floors works very well to limit potential abrasion. The trick is on long trip to continually monitor them for suspension, but even if they rest on the floor of the raft its ok because your chances of a sharp corner etc are reduced if you have a solid board acting as a buffer.

I have floors in all three bays. It is super nice in the center bay because it gives you a solid surface to stand on. I also have some of my heavier Rocket boxes tied down to the suspended floor itself which keeps the center of boat gravity of the boat lower.

I carry my extended beer supply on the front floor under a strapped deck. The beer is contained in "cool boxes" (milk crates with strapped lids). This keeps all the beer cold and again keeps the center of gravity low. The top deck on the bow also provides a nice river level bed to crash on at night when it's hot.


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## rwhyman

I have an everything bag that I got from River Ray that has rings built into the bottom so that you can suspend it like a cargo floor, but I just let it rest on the floor and use the upper rings to hold it in place. What I did was cut a piece of plywood to fit in the bottom of the bag and then I can put hard objects (rocket box, kitchen box or whatever) on the board/floor and I feel less likely to damage the raft floor. Everything else is hanging off the frame. Loop straps for the cooler and I use a drop bag in the front bay with a large table for a lid. I have been known to put water jugs on the floor in front of the frame.


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## lhowemt

Our boat is small (13' NRS) and with two people and multiple dogs, space is at a premium. On our first multiday trip last summer (5 days, pretty flat water so we could take the old dog), we had 3 dry bags shoved under the rowing seat. Sleeping bags and tent. That allowed us enough space in the back to hang the beer cooler and pile the rest on top and around so it is low enough the dogs can hang out on top. Since it was such flat water we weren't concerned about the bags below the seat, even though it took some effort to push them in there. I don't know why but our boat seems to be pretty short from the floor to the frame. The next size up NRS has larger tubes and perhaps the floor is attached a bit differently or something. We're going to do some real trips this summer (only up to C III) and need to decide ahead if we should or shouldn't continue to pack under the seat like that. 

I like having a small boat for day trips, but it's only a matter of time before we upsize as we do more and more week long trips. We're hoping to do Desolation this summer, or lower Salmon.

I'm surprised to hear so much support for a wood floor, I assumed that being "hard" it would be as great a risk for pinching a hole than hanging a cooler or dry box. I do see it being far superior to one of those mesh floors as it would hang down in the middle.

So, bags under the seat, or retool our packing in Class III?


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## ecjohnson

lhowemt said:


> I'm surprised to hear so much support for a wood floor, I assumed that being "hard" it would be as great a risk for pinching a hole than hanging a cooler or dry box. I do see it being far superior to one of those mesh floors as it would hang down in the middle.
> 
> So, bags under the seat, or retool our packing in Class III?


The mesh floors are fine also. The wooden floors and mesh floors are supposed to be hung so that they are not on the floor. I think it's fine to put some things directly on the floor. I've rigged that way for Cat, the Grand, etc. We even had a big plastic box directly on the floor on the Grand. I've also seen people rig on top of their paco pads if they don't want something directly on the floor.


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## Dave Frank

Lots of god points being covered. Obviously your boat is best off if there are not hard or pointy surfaces in contact with the floor. If you go over a sharp rock or pokey stick, the stuff above can be the difference in whether or not your raft pops due to the obstacle. 
I have a ply wood drop floor that I sometimes use to keep the load suspended above the rear floor. If you have a lot of hard stuff like rocket boxes and loose dutch ovens, the floor clearly protects the boat, but that same hard floor if not raised high enough can prevent the floor from flexing up and going over the obstacle.

I usually leave the floor behind and pack softer dry bags on the bottom. 

Something I have been meaning to do is to pad the bottom of my cooler and dry boxes to provide some give, when you take a big hit. 

Another idea I have seen attempted, but not perfected is to lash stuff down in a manner that allows it to be able to rise up when you it stuff. I'd love to see this idea improved upon.

If I were planning a low water mission, where you knew there would be lots of slithering and scraping and dragging I would probably load way up off the floors and leave the boat softer and 303 the bottom of it to make it nice and slippery. Loading a boat higher and wider protects the bottom floor, but makes the center of gravity higher and I suppose exposes the tubes to more wear.


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## lito

*Pic worth 1000 words*

"I have floors in all three bays. It is super nice in the center bay because it gives you a solid surface to stand on. I also have some of my heavier Rocket boxes tied down to the suspended floor itself which keeps the center of boat gravity of the boat lower."

Opening this question to everyone. Suspended floor in cockpit is way to go. I have seen a few ways to suspend the floor/deck. What is your way and what is the rationale behind the construction? Pics if possible... (I am in process of setting up my oar-rig and want to do it right the first time...) Also, I would like to see how folks have their rocket boxes tied in the cockpit. I have seen a few different ways and debating what would be best for ease and security. 


Also, Reality Sheriff, It looks like you have a great set up. I am envious. My intention is not to nitpick-- Seems like I rig a boat the way I rig a boat is because it was the way I was taught. I am always on the lookout for more tricks. Would you be open to explaining the braided rope on top of your load? What about the yellow cords diving into your load? Is that where you put extra D-rings to suspend your floor? What about the purple line on the stern (I assume)? What is it and why is it there? I can obviously see that it is tied into something on shore with a 'biner. Why so many loops on the purple? I can see the plywood deck in bow. Great idea. What sorts of other stuff is under that car trunk contraption? Thanks for letting me fire a billion questions out at you.

Are there any other posts such as this? I am finding it really helpful. Has there been a picture of your rig with descriptions? It could be a really helpful post... Perhaps when I am done w/ mine, I'll start!


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## lhowemt

I had a post going last spring,
http://www.mountainbuzz.com/forums/f11/dog-platform-12717.html

I got a lot of great ideas from JBL, Chip, and Oarbender. Seems like they are rigging machines!


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## oarbender

*damn this is going to be LONG*

okay, so Im a fabricator, and I have the tools, but for most it would be cost NO-NO. 15'9 maravia willawa 2.....7'6 side 2 side, and 44" twixed the tubes. front bay= 150 Long box, next, (moving from bow to stern) 44x20x20 dry box, next, row bay, suspended 6061 t-6 D-plate, with opposing rocket boxes (1) per side. Under my ass, sets 5 ammo cans, and the fire pan. the fire pan is a MONSTER, and is actually the "carry unit" for the five ammos. Of course, the paco on top.

behind that, is an elevated plattform, that lends an ear to the kick of the rocker, and holds a dryvault, suspended under it, i have a bever tail, in the stern wear (2)25 lbs propane tanks live, (drybags live there too. the stern is covered by 6061 t6 D-plate, and has hatch back struts on it, to keep all cool when grabing gear........

don't get me started on the mister system, or my capacity to make ice


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## lhowemt

How about some photos Oarbender?

realitysheriff -what's your boat?


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## oarbender

I will do my best, but I completly dorked a couple days ago. Took Digi pics of a buffet table I made for custy, and wanted to show what i had made, for approval before collecting my $$$ ( it was headed for powder coat ) and they were outta town, long story short, I left said such digi in truck over night,(got cold) and still no workie.... 

I have seen lots o rigs in my time, but never a set up like will be, when complete.

so clean.......shuffle board anyone?


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## lito

*Damn...*



lhowemt said:


> How about some photos Oarbender?
> 
> realitysheriff -what's your boat?



I agree... Keee-rap! Lessee some pics!!


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## RealitySheriff

"Suspended floor in cockpit is way to go. I have seen a few ways to suspend the floor/deck. What is your way and what is the rationale behind the construction? Pics if possible..."

I used 3/4 inch Plywood w/ 4 coats of Varthane.

"Also, I would like to see how folks have their rocket boxes tied in the cockpit. I have seen a few different ways and debating what would be best for ease and security."

On the center bay floor I drew out the dimensions of the rocket boxes and drilled holes out to run straps from the bottom up. as you can see from the pic the straps go both lengthwise and from the side. They are very secure this way.

"Would you be open to explaining the braided rope on top of your load?"


This easier to demonstrate than explain but i'll try. First it's easier to do this with 2 people but possible with one. It's called a Diamond Hitch and it is by far the most bomber way to strap in all the misc gear in the stern of a boat. Loose stuff on the bottom (of course) then dry bags and such on top. The Blue cord runs from the D-rings to the frame and is twisted about 12 times and runs on top of the gear. Then take 2 12ft straps (one for each side). Girth Hitch the buckle end towards the stern and start threading the loose end through the twisted loops in the blue line making sure that each side catches the same loop. Loop to d-ring, loop to d-ring (catching all the handles and shit on the gear for added security along the way). When you have reached the bow end of the load bring the loose end back to the buckles. Then tension each section side to side following the loop to d-ring pattern until you finally get back to the beginning again. It's way easier than it sounds and way easier still with 2 people because you can team tension each section by pulling away from each other.

"What about the yellow cords diving into your load? Is that where you put extra D-rings to suspend your floor?"
Yes these are the lines to suspend the floor.

"What about the purple line on the stern (I assume)? What is it and why is it there? I can obviously see that it is tied into something on shore with a 'biner. Why so many loops on the purple?" 

It's a simple self equalizing stern line. I have the same rig on the front. The multiple loops serve two functions; one the more length on them the less energy the rope has to absorb on a small area making it less likely to fail, two because the suspended floor lines are almost always under tension it's tough to get my fingers in the d-rings to run the diamond hitch straps, more loops give me more room. The carbiner just allows the stern line to move side to side easily so that one D-ring doesn't take the whole load at any one time.

"I can see the plywood deck in bow. Great idea. What sorts of other stuff is under that car trunk contraption?"

Honestly it's mostly beer and sodas stored in the "cool boxes" at 6 beers per person per day for 3 people for 20+ days thats 360 beers alone never mind the sodas.


"Thanks for letting me fire a billion questions out at you."

No problem. Here's a pic of my summer night bed. The front deck also makes for a wicked place to entertain guests. And NO that isn't what you think it is. Those are dehydrated green chiles for the Bloody Marys
Oh and it's an Aire 16R


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## lhowemt

My hubby wants to know how the Dale's pale ale is? We have it in the local groc here, pretty spendy. Our only local good beer in a can is great, but pretty strong for swilling on the river. I personally enjoy Tecate, and it freezes well!
Also, how do you keep it cold for 20 days?


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## RealitySheriff

lhowemt said:


> My hubby wants to know how the Dale's pale ale is? We have it in the local groc here, pretty spendy. Our only local good beer in a can is great, but pretty strong for swilling on the river. I personally enjoy Tecate, and it freezes well!


I'm a Tecate man myself. Dales Pale is pretty good and a nice way to break up the monotony. But better than Dales is Ska Brewing's Pale that also comes on a can.


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## lhowemt

20 days with cold beer? How?


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## RealitySheriff

lhowemt said:


> 20 days with cold beer? How?


Cerrio? Stick your day supply in a drag bag man! What kind of a boater are you?


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## lhowemt

OK, So it's COOL beer! Just looking for new ideas. I have to keep the hubby happy while I drag him down all these rivers!


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## oarbender

keep it cold for 20 days? ahhh, now wer talkin'...... (1)500 watt panel that fits on top of the 44x20x20 drybox. (1) 500watt inverter (2) optima yello top batteries (1) ice maker.

I got my ice maker from something like www small appliance.com, or something like that.just google.
it was like 200$, the whole system is about a grand, but HOLY golly gee, am I the MAN when its 110 degrees, and Im making almost 40 lbs ice a day......YO?

BTW. I call it " UTAH COLD" without said such set-up


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## lhowemt

NOW your talking! How do you spell cocktails! We've got a 1000 w inverter in our van, we're half way there!


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## RealitySheriff

oarbender said:


> keep it cold for 20 days? ahhh, now wer talkin'...... (1)500 watt panel that fits on top of the 44x20x20 drybox. (1) 500watt inverter (2) optima yello top batteries (1) ice maker.
> 
> I got my ice maker from something like www small appliance.com, or something like that.just google.
> it was like 200$, the whole system is about a grand, but HOLY golly gee, am I the MAN when its 110 degrees, and Im making almost 40 lbs ice a day......YO?
> 
> BTW. I call it " UTAH COLD" without said such set-up



Frecking awesome idea! PM me the details!


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## lhowemt

Why the yellow and not the blue (deep cycle). Is there that much draw when the compressor starts on the ice machine?


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## oarbender

Nope, just invite me on your next GC trip....... BTW, open spots on a OCT 31 2008 GC trip........21 day, all the way......

Im just kinding about details, but it would take me weeks to type all the details out, Im a 2 digit typer.


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## oarbender

no, not much draw, I just had a buddy that worked for a motor parts store , and thats what was avaliable


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## raftus

oarbender said:


> Nope, just invite me on your next GC trip....... BTW, open spots on a OCT 31 2008 GC trip........21 day, all the way......
> 
> Im just kinding about details, but it would take me weeks to type all the details out, Im a 2 digit typer.


Your timing is almost perfect, my trip leaves on Oct. 28th for 16 days. Sadly i think that means we will always be ahead of you on the river and unable to beg for ice. 

Where do you get a 500 watt solar panel in that size?


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## oarbender

right on Raftus, your group headed to south cove? we are fur sur going to being kickin' it, and in no hurry to get downstream. 

I bought my panel on ebay. my box is 20x44, so i just looked for a deal on a panel that would fit those stats.


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## raftus

Our plan is Diamond Creek at day 16 as we have several people that can't get more time off. But like any big trip we may end up having some people that want to keep going - It's is kinda a shame to be there and not keep going. I have heard mixed things about campsites and upstream winds in the final section. But it would be cool to see superimposition rapid. 

Thanks for the panel recommendation. That sounds like a pretty amazing setup. I am hoping that since it won't be mid summer kinda hot that we won't need it. But it would be cool to have no mater what. 

Any advice on the perfect umbrella for the boat?


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## JBL

raftus said:


> Any advice on the perfect umbrella for the boat?


I'm interested in this as well. I have an umbrella that I've had for about 6 years that has been great but I'm always on the look. Especially now with a 2 year old son, shade is at a premium. 










I have been looking at this one from Cascade Outfitters but haven't pulled the trigger yet: Cascade Outfitters Whitewater Rafting Equipment: Beach Umbrella

I've also looked at the mounting bracket they sell: Cascade Outfitters Whitewater Rafting Equipment: Umbrella Holder - attaches to your frame

Anyone have this umbrella or bracket??


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## rwhyman

I have the bracket and it works well although it's designed for smaller tubes than my DRE frame. The nice thing is that you can move it about without too much trouble for different setups. I just use an umbrella from Gart's and cut off the shaft as needed.


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## JBL

rwhyman said:


> I have the bracket and it works well although it's designed for smaller tubes than my DRE frame.


So how do you attach it?


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## rwhyman

Big hose clamps. I think they come with it.



JBL said:


> So how do you attach it?


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## lhowemt

what size frame do you use it on? I have a 1 5/8" NRS and this is be made for a 1 3/8". Seems like it could be "made" to work?



rwhyman said:


> I have the bracket and it works well although it's designed for smaller tubes than my DRE frame. The nice thing is that you can move it about without too much trouble for different setups. I just use an umbrella from Gart's and cut off the shaft as needed.


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## rwhyman

DRE frame tubes are about 1 7/8". The hose clamps hold it in place pretty well. If you could flatten the curve of the bracket a little bit, it would probably hold a little better.



lhowemt said:


> what size frame do you use it on? I have a 1 5/8" NRS and this is be made for a 1 3/8". Seems like it could be "made" to work?


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## Andy H.

*Umbrella Mounts*

I've got a fitting like used for the DRE oar towers (30A fitting), with a short piece of swaged tube from AAA with screws (thumb tighten) to hold the umbrella in place. There's one mounted fore and aft. No photos of a closeup but you can see the boat w/ umbrellas in my profile.

If I had it to do over again, I'd just get a speedrail "T" fitting and a 18" piece of aluminum frame tube for it, then just plunk the umbrella shaft into it - if its windy enough to blow/lift the umbrella out, you need to stow it anyway. Simpler, less bulky, and you can just turn the T fitting down during spring and fall when you don't need an umbrella anyway. Equally important, you don't have safety hazard of a bulky and sharp-edged fitting on the frame.

If using hose clamps for anything, hopefully any sharp edges will be taped over - they could slice somebody a nasty one.

-AH


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## oarbender

i don't use an umbrella at all, I use a speed boat/pontoon boat style biminie, I ordered it from bass pro shop, they have all kinds of options for sizes, and you can get pretty much anything you want. I used the exsiting hardwear, taht came with the set-up, and i just built some brakets with a slight bend, to fit my rails i also use radiator clamps around the brakets to secure the biminie to the frame. I used footman loops in my frame extention in the rear, and up near the bow for cams to secure it all down in (4) places 2 per side, front and back. it will drop in about 30 seconds, or as fast as you are with a cam buckle. and is slick......

I was kinda wishin I would have my camera working, ( maybe have to get another one) 

it is a super slick set-up, and usually the Topic on the ramp...... "Damn did you see that rig?" 

whole set-up on biminie is bout 250.00 or so, and well worth the $ and energy to build.


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## Dave Frank

*Bimini*

If you atually want shade, get a bimini top, not an umbrella.

It provides much more shade, and handles wind reasonably well. By that, I mean it won't fall apart in the wind, not that you get to leave it up in a head wind. 

Once you get it set up correctly it goes up and down with 2 straps.

I'm sure someone will point out that it could be a safety hazard and they would probably be right.

Search the Westmarine catalog. Made by Sunbrella.


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## oarbender

thats almost my exact set-up....it works great. the 2 rear cam straps stay in there position, and i drop the front 2 to lower the biminie....


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## lhowemt

Stylin! 

Going down huge rapids on an inflated tube is a hazard in and of itself. All things in the right place. 

Wish I had that (or anything) on a summer float in Montana last year. Right, it's not hot here, 107 and after 5 days we would have knocked someone off for a shade rig like that! 

Just the thing for a rig-crazy boater!



Dave Frank said:


> If you atually want shade, get a bimini top, not an umbrella.
> 
> It provides much more shade, and handles wind reasonably well. By that, I mean it won't fall apart in the wind, not that you get to leave it up in a head wind.
> 
> Once you get it set up correctly it goes up and down with 2 straps.
> 
> I'm sure someone will point out that it could be a safety hazard and they would probably be right.
> 
> Search the Westmarine catalog. Made by Sunbrella.


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## WhiteLightning

I, too have a smaller boat. 

I have a cargo floor from DRE, and it works pretty well, would be better with some more D-rings.

I've also been known to just pile a bunch of crap in there because I have no other choice. I'd love to have a 16 footer and a huge expedition frame with the works, but for now when I overnight with the 13 footer, I look like the Beverly Hillbillies or something...


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## WhiteLightning

Sweet rig!


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## lito

*Clavey River Umbrella Stand*

Expedition Umbrella Stand - Clavey River Equipment

Just to add this to the mix..

I am really digging this post by the way. I love the fact that it is a clearing house for ideas.


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## JBL

Dave Frank said:


> If you atually want shade, get a bimini top, not an umbrella.
> 
> It provides much more shade, and handles wind reasonably well. By that, I mean it won't fall apart in the wind, not that you get to leave it up in a head wind.
> 
> Once you get it set up correctly it goes up and down with 2 straps.


Dave - any chance I could come see your rig in person sometime? I'm in Boulder a few days a week for work and like the bimini set up but would like to see it firsthand. I'll bring some beer...


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## lito

*Post Pics while you are at it*

Just as a reference for the rest of us. Any chance of getting a few close ups of how the bimini attaches to the frame? 

That would be mucho helpful. How does the b.top get stowed with your load, etc. Is it flush at all? Fit behind the frame? Behind the dunnage in the stern? 

I checked out Bass Pro Shops (for about 10 minutes--since I am nowhere ready to get a bimini...just for ideas--they've got a bunch of them.)


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## Osprey

For an NRS frame umbrella mount just buy a LoPro fitting ($18 ) and a foot or 18" of pipe ($4/ft) and a couple clips and you're set. Cheap and easy, mine looks like this:










I use a big ol 8' umbrella, usually will cover the rower and person in front. Seems like with anything smaller those guys have to use more than one to get much coverage. 

I don't worry much about items on the floor myself unless they are super heavy. I suspend the Yeti up front and an old cooler for a dry box behind the rower's seat. Water jugs on the floor wedged inbetween a couple frame rails to keep them in place in front of the rower, in the back I put my folding table down first to protect the floor then everything on top of it. Most of that stuff is not heavy though. Couple of five gal buckets next to the rower and saddle bags. No issues, like someone else mentioned, I have a Vanguard too and that floor is so thick and bomber I don't think a pinch from underneath is even a consideration.


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## lhowemt

What do you have inside your NRS pipe? Is that the umbrella base, or another pipe that is 1 1/4" OD, then the umbrella base in that?



Osprey said:


> For an NRS frame umbrella mount just buy a LoPro fitting ($18 ) and a foot or 18" of pipe ($4/ft) and a couple clips and you're set. C


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## Osprey

that's the umbrella base, no extra pipes. an umbrella pipe just happens to fit almost perfect into an NRS pipe. just cut it down for the height I wanted it (actually I have the umbrella base pipe drilled in a couple spots to adjust the height.) and then I have it mounted on my foot bar so it's pretty centered between the rower and the front since I usually just have two people on multiday trips. When I take it down I generally just pop the bottom clip and leave the NRS pipe attached to the umbrella when I stow it. Then I'm left with just a little nub of the LoPro that is easily buried for safety.


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## rwhyman

That looks like a sweet set up, but if it's mounted on your foot bar does it get in the way of your oars or is it far enough forward that it's not a problem? I have short legs and my foot bar maybe closer than yours.



Osprey said:


> that's the umbrella base, no extra pipes. an umbrella pipe just happens to fit almost perfect into an NRS pipe. just cut it down for the height I wanted it (actually I have the umbrella base pipe drilled in a couple spots to adjust the height.) and then I have it mounted on my foot bar so it's pretty centered between the rower and the front since I usually just have two people on multiday trips. When I take it down I generally just pop the bottom clip and leave the NRS pipe attached to the umbrella when I stow it. Then I'm left with just a little nub of the LoPro that is easily buried for safety.


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## lhowemt

any specific brand our source umbrella that fits so perfect?



Osprey said:


> that's the umbrella base, no extra pipes. an umbrella pipe just happens to fit almost perfect into an NRS pipe.


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## Osprey

rwhyman said:


> That looks like a sweet set up, but if it's mounted on your foot bar does it get in the way of your oars or is it far enough forward that it's not a problem? I have short legs and my foot bar maybe closer than yours.


 
Thanks! It's far enough forward so it's not in the way. It's in the middle so the oars hitting it wouldn't be an issue, I was more worried about being able to lean forward and take a full stroke without me hitting it, and that hasn't been an issue either. I'm about 5'10" btw. I don't have a picture with it on the fully loaded rig off hand but here's another while I was building it:










My umbrella is just a $20 special from Sam's Club. (yes, I do take some flack for the rainbow configuration...haha. but it does tilt and have a two piece pole, fiberglass ribs are nice since they give in the wind. It seems that having one with the vent in the top helps the wind go through quite a bit too.) 

Does anyone else reinforce their umbrella pole with a dowel inside it? I haven't had any issues but seen a few snap especially when the holder pole is too short.


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## raftus

For $70 this is a 8 foot umbrella with fiberglass ribs, and some solid style. 

http://www.shadeusa.com/beach_umbrellas.htm#~THATCHED%20BEACH%20UMBRELLA%20---%20$149.95~

This site also has good prices on a lot of other umbrellas. FWIW.


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## aztecdummy

*Not enough money for drop floors!*

I like what everybody is saying about this subject! I only could afford money for a drop floor for the stern and I usually put all my heavy stuff in the back. If I need more room I put soft and cushy dry bags in the front and that way creates a cushion for riders, in a way they feel like Cleopatra, and this can be a pain for me because they want me to feed them all the time! lol The best part is that to lose the gear in the front, first you have to lose the rider on top of that gear, and sometimes these riders will be holding for dear life! lol, so you know your gear is safer. Also take into account the water levels! I like my floor to be pumped pretty good but it all changes with the gear I am carrying and the water levels. You have to play with your settings in your boat to find the perfect match to your gear. I dont think to many people have perfected the way to load a boat, and certainly I keep playing with ways to load the boat, somehow I am always finding new ways to cram my stuff. If you have time or live in Colorado you should drop bt Down River Equipment, those guys have help me a lot with ways to improve my packing.


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## JBL

I vote for a flotilla this spring/summer on Pumphouse (or Ark, Blue, Shoshone, etc.) to see how everyone rigs their raft. It would be sweet to have all of us on the water together someday.


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## lito

*Tuolumne River Trip*

Or come out to Cali for a little California Classic? Seems like a heck of a shuttle for me...

HA!


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## Andy H.

I'd be up for a Buzz float but recommend something other than Pumphouse.


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## rpage

*Umbrella Holder*

AAA inflatables has a prefab umbrella holder that bolts to the foot bar.No hose clamps just an allen key. It is easy to install, adjust and holds my umbrella with zero complications. We used them on our Recretec frames on the Grand Canyon this past summer and are very pleased with the performance. Bimini top would be perfect for shade but the umbrella was a welcome reprive from the sun and was dummy proofed for me. See ya all on the river.
Rico


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