# Trip Planning in the Time of Covid



## td (Apr 7, 2005)

I like this thread, as things slowly open back up all of us that want to get back on the river will need to be thinking about these things. The pre trip test is an interesting idea if you can get ahold of them- hopefully that will become easier for the whole country going forward. I think another thing to add to your list of challenges might be the groover situation- maybe separate groovers for each household family group? I think Covid can pass through feces which would definitely make the groover a potential source of spread, but I could be mistaken.


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## BenSlaughter (Jun 16, 2017)

I agree the "stay the fuck at home" thing is getting real old.

It's also odd to me how divisive this issue has become. The StfaH attitude seems to have at least some correlation to how much time a person spends watching\listening to the news. 🙄

While it is a serious disease, the data that is coming out now just doesn't support this attitude that everyone who's out in public may as well be the Grim Reaper. 

I live in a county with a population of about 45,000 people, FIVE confirmed cases, zero fatalities. I interact with fewer than a dozen people. I don't have it, although I wish I could find someone to get it from... I'm young(ish) and healthy. I'm zero% concerned about it hurting me. And I'd like to not have to be concerned about getting it and passing it to anyone else. We can't all live under a rock until they come out with a vaccine....in 18-24 months.
ALSO, people seem to be forgetting that these lockdowns were never really about preventing the spread of the disease. Viruses pretty much infect the same number of people, regardless of our actions, short of a vaccine. The lockdowns were implemented in order to keep from overwhelming the system. Which seems to have been accomplished. I know several nurses in small towns and cities who are all but out of work, because the hospitals are EMPTY!!

I'm getting off topic though...


I do my best to support local business when I travel for river trips. But this year may have to be different. The likelihood of spreading this at a pay-at-the-pump gas station is awfully low. 
The conversation would have to be had, in advance, with the shuttle company, hotel managers, restauranteurs, etc. As well as details worked out with the group you're boating with. Or, as I've done plenty of times before, just go solo.

And if I get some irate yokel yelling at me just because I have Oreegone plates on my pickup, I'll take that as an invitation that they want to have a conversation with me alot closer than 6' apart. 😉

Ben


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## Conundrum (Aug 23, 2004)

Spoke with a good friend who is a doc who I do river trips with sometimes. Carve-he was working at WR Luke's during the shitstorm so he's seen what happens and admitted a lot of serious cases over there. He said right now, he'd would only go with people who he knows and trusts and who have been doing the right stuff for the 2-3 weeks leading up to the trip. Right stuff-social distancing, staying home as much as possible, limiting exposure to the public. If he had the right people on the trip, he'd keep the trip small, and avoid any longer trips more than seven days.

We're as hygienic as I've seen on trips and he said keep doing that and then some and be mindful in camp and shuttles for personal hygiene but not do much else differently.

I spoke to an out of state shuttle company for a trip for my girlfriend and me. They were happy to do the shuttle if we wiped down the truck when dropped it off and gave them at least three days to deliver to the take out. When asked, they said because we're out of state, we might want to hit some mud puddles fast to cover our plates because locals were not too happy with out of staters right now. We decided to honor that and not push the issue and are staying local.

I also run a couple shuttles a year to get people to a hard to get to put in. I told them I'd take their gear but I wasn't going to sit in a confined car with 6-7 people I don't know that well for four hours. That didn't make them happy but I don't really care. It's not my source of income so they can figure out other shuttles.


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## sarahkonamojo (May 20, 2004)

Contact points.
Shuttle
kitchen duty
dishwashing
handwashing stations
groovers
boat below your ability level (be safe)
small group size
byob dyob

face masks. gloves.
Good insurance.


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## zaczac4fun (Mar 21, 2018)

Super interesting subject. I too have been struggling with this topic as the possibility of river trips start to get closer.


Carvedog, I think you hit the main points of contact/concern in the OP. 

I would venture to say that most of these can be mitigated by wearing a mask when you are close to other people and washing (or at least sanitize) your hands before and after touching shared property, or eating or touching your face. Masks in the kitchen would also be pretty wise. As well as when around the fire without distance- but it sure will make drinking beer harder (bring a straw?). I think in the kitchen it might also behoove us to have the cooks dish up food school cafeteria style rather than everyone touching the same serving utensils? 



For the groover - there is some research suggesting that COVID can be transmitted fecal-oral. Hygiene to take care of that shouldn't be anything new on a river trip, poop in the mouth can cause a lot of other river trouble than just COVID.


Pre-trip testing would be great if you could get it without depriving someone that needs it more of one. 



As for medical/rescue - take the precautions you have the time for (ei: you could put on a mask with your nitrile gloves) but know that as with any rescue, there is risk involved. Also risk for any outside SAR teams which we can't do anything about other than lower our own risk thresholds.



None of these are perfect measures, but like everything else we've done so far in this crises, they should help mitigate the risks. 



Personally, I'll probably stick a single close group of friends and take a couple fewer precautions while working as hard as I can to make sure we do everything possible to keep the remote communities we pass through safe from us.


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## griz (Sep 19, 2005)

Big things I’d do is leave home ready to launch. Food, gear, gas...done. No hotels, restaurants, or going in for a Slurpee refueling,ect. up and back. A Trip to the Moon and back mentality.

Refueling ain’t rocket science....Hand sanitizer before and after.

Other things I’d do that are not mentioned is going solo for sleeping arrangements. Everyone in their own smaller tent. Booo for S.O. fun but just be happy to be on the river and all that nonsense.

I’d also just keep the meals simple and folks just prep and clean their own. A bunch of smaller stoves. I’m sure the Better Camps and Gardens crowd will have trouble getting their brain around it but oh well.

(Just counting down til this thread turns into another shitshow.)


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## go-with-the-Flo (Aug 6, 2006)

*tests*

The test that you posted is an antibody test. This will let you know if you have had COVID-19. But it does not tell you if you have the VIRUS, ie, if you are contagious. So until there is an antigen test you can use to self-test, you won't be able to test the trip participants.


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## carvedog (May 11, 2005)

go-with-the-Flo said:


> The test that you posted is an antibody test. This will let you know if you have had COVID-19. But it does not tell you if you have the VIRUS, ie, if you are contagious. So until there is an antigen test you can use to self-test, you won't be able to test the trip participants.


It is actually a two stage test that you can order either one or both. 

Options for which version are in the link.


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## king kong kev (Aug 31, 2006)

We had a San Juan trip scheduled back in March and as a group we decided to cancel the trip. Back in March I copied some info from the web on COVID-19 (possibly dated by now) and annotated _[italics and brackets_] how it would apply to our trip. Here is a list of the screening and controls we were considering before we decided to cancel. 

1) Make sure everyone is healthy before we leave [_We can do this. And anyone who is not feeling well should stay home]_

2) Check for symptoms which include:
▪ Fever
▪ Cough
▪ Shortness of breath
▪ Symptoms can present 2-14 days after exposure.
[_Everyone needs to screen and monitor themselves before/during the trip_]

3) Know how disease is transmitted:
▪ Most commonly spread person-to-person via droplet when in close contact (within 6 feet) with an infected person. [_Although we will be outside, we will be in close contact with each other in and around camp]_
▪ Spread through respiratory droplets with coughing or sneezing.
▪ Possible to be spread by contact on a surface or object but not the most common way the virus spreads. There is also emerging evidence of oral-fecal transmission related to viral shedding which, in turn, places emphasis on effective hand washing and/or not handling food for others. [_Definitely will need to be rigorous on hand washing throughout the day_]

▪ People are most contagious when they are most symptomatic but can also transmit the disease prior to feeling symptomatic (called the prodromal phase of their illness). [_Without testing we won't know if anyone has the virus on the trip]_

4) Preventative measures:
▪ Best option: Avoid being exposed when possible [_This works if nobody has the virus when we launch_]
▪ Actions that minimize communicability or transmission of the condition:
Plan to wipe down surfaces regularly and provide easy access to soap/water or hand sanitizer. [_We can do this- just need to have easy access to hand sanitizer and to wipe down all cooking areas and tables frequently]_ 

Avoid close contact with people who are sick; stay at least 6 feet away. [_Very difficult if anyone on the trip is sick_]
Avoid touching your eyes, nose, and mouth especially after sneezing/coughing. [_Good practice and we can do this_]
Cover your cough or sneeze with tissue and then throw it in trash and immediately wash your hands (soap & water). [_Could be difficult to have tissue, trash, and hand wash available at all times_]
Isolate people with assumed COVID-19 [_Not really possible on river trip]_

5 ) Conduct good physical assessments of folks who become ill; Ascertain recent travel history of anyone who becomes ill; isolate from general population; treat symptomatically; notify health department if you have concerns regarding COVID-19. [_Difficult/impossible to do on the river. Very limited health care available._]


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## [email protected] (Jun 1, 2010)

griz said:


> Big things I’d do is leave home ready to launch. Food, gear, gas...done. No hotels, restaurants, or going in for a Slurpee refueling,ect. up and back. A Trip to the Moon and back mentality.
> 
> Refueling ain’t rocket science....Hand sanitizer before and after.
> been there done that
> ...


You can be sure it will be turned political soon.

Thanks for the well thought out Suggestions.

OP, great thread idea, could be very useful in planning my next trip.


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## wshutt (Jun 20, 2013)

Have to admit I'm over this Summer already. Was supposed to have a GC with my dream team May 22, now not sure if we will get boating at all or maybe just hubby and self on the Lower Salmon later in the season. 

Hubby's been working ICU in Central WA where there have been several cases and deaths. He was honestly very relieved when we got the final notice that the Grand was a no go because he could not wrestle with the whole group thing after the last 6+ weeks and the craziness in the hospitals. I have been banished to Idaho for the duration cuz you don't want to live with an ICU nurse taking care of vented COVID+ patients these days and he doesn't want to be responsible for bringing it home. I just don't see doing group trips this year, we are probably out because of hubby's profession. Can we in good faith go on anything like a normal river trip never knowing if he could be carrying it? Testing would be good, an antibody test and knowledge of conferred immunity would be good. But at this point I don't believe we have enough knowledge of this beast to really understand how to protect people, the WHO has said as much re the antibody test. 
I want us to come out of this but I will admit to being fearful that opening up too soon could really bite us in our butts. I don't want to see our local/rural hospitals overwhelmed when we get more "rebound" than we bargain for. It sucks for sure.


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

[email protected] said:


> You can be sure it will be turned political soon.



Not likely, I noted the lack of posts from GeoRon after he flamed out on the covid thread with all the personal attacks and how trump sucked, his avatar now has swimming under it, which as I understand it, means you've been thrown out of the boat, or banned for behavior. 



I too am tired of the stay the fuck at home mantra, but if that's what we need to do to save the rest of the boating year, lives and livelihoods, than that's what I'll do. 



All of these suggestions are great, in Salida, what we loosely call a hospital has not been overwhelmed, yet, as many of the tourists have been staying away, as they should. unfortunately, many haven't. We're all dreading Memorial Day weekend, and the "hospital" is now gearing up for an increase in COVID cases from that. I personally think we're fucked, but am hoping for the best. 



I especially like the multiple stoves idea, I'm a pretty picky eater, from both a health standpoint and taste, prefer low carb, meats and veggies, and always like a hot breakfast when I eat breakfast, so I take a Jetboil stove with me on any trip, along with dehydrated meals and such. 



Boaters shouldn't have a problem with handwash, and cleanliness. I'd suggest a copious amount of Clorox antibac wipes, makes sanitizing so much easier. As well, instead of the groover, use resstop bags, single use and no chance of fecal coliform / viruses etc becoming airborne. You can put them over a 5 gallon bucket to sit on, and make or buy a seat (wipe between uses with the wipes) if you so desire. It's not a huge deal in the big scheme of things, and I think it'd go a long way toward helping stay safe. 



Praying the rivers open up soon, and the towns open to tourism again, so I can go play. But for now...


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## SherpaDave (Dec 28, 2017)

Plan chili dogs for every meal. That should encourage proper distancing.


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## Fly By Night (Oct 31, 2018)

SherpaDave said:


> Plan chili dogs for every meal. That should encourage proper distancing.



That would mandate everyone has their own groover as well, I call that two birds with one stone. 

Park your thrones at least 6' apart and fire up the brass band, the intro to Dire Straits "Your Last Trick" comes to mind.


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## dirtbagkayaker (Oct 29, 2008)

Seems like a whole lot of over thinking. COVID has had very little impact on my trips and planning this year. I never have boated in large groups from out of state. I have no interest in leaving Idaho to try and find "better" water. I don't use shuttle services or hotels. It's always been a mix of the same crew for me. Some people come and others go over time but trips of 6 are large in my world. Trips of 2 or 3 are the norm. There is no way I would not want to be on a trip so complex in planning that you need a PhD to organize against COVID. Just does not seem epic to me. IMHO, if your team is gripped for COVID someone is going to bring personal baggage to the river.....


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## carvedog (May 11, 2005)

dirtbagkayaker said:


> Seems like a whole lot of over thinking.


Seems like you are the one overthinking it. I love to meet new folks on the river. You go hang out with whoever you want. I don't care. This thread obviously doesn't apply to you. Still you feel compelled to tell us how wrong we are doing it. 

Twenty three people on this trip back in 2015 and it was one of the best ever. Planning was easy too. I have a spreadsheet. It takes a few minutes to set up, but no PhD.
If you don't like cool river people you wouldn't like this trip. 

9 from Idaho
6 from Washington 4 met fairly directly thru the Buzz
4 from Colorado two directly from the Buzz
2 from Oregon both directly thru the Buzz
1 from Nevada.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

Carvedog, I really appreciate the well-thought out post.

Probably should be more concerned about the shuttle than anything else. Seems that sharing a tent or sharing the cab of a vehicle are when you'd be most exposed to a virus coming from the upper respiratory of another human.

I've been on the local river with another boater. We've shuttled together 4 times. Figure if one of us was sick, the other already would be. For us limiting our circle isn't a bad thing. Shuttling with 3 new people every week is asking for trouble until we know more.


Honestly, I'm _less_ concerned about cooking than anything else.

Camped out Friday night, potluck food. If you're prepared for norovirus and following good sanitation procedures, you should be good for COVID.


I really don't know what to make of the whole thing. I was chafing to get on the water and a couple weeks ago said "F-it" and started playing in my back yard. I would be satisfied discovering more of my own county this season until more is known about the virus...but I (clearly wasn't) satisfied sitting at home for the entire season. If I miss the MF and Main trips I was invited on this year, I'll look forward to them next year.


got off the river Saturday and there were 15 boaters all a "healthy distance" apart at the takeout. I didn't realize how much I've missed boating, and really didn't realize how much I have missed hanging out at the takeout and visiting with others. My soul is happy for now.


Still, interesting discussion should this crap turn into the "new normal" and we're still dealing with it in 2021 and 2022 and beyond.


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## [email protected] (Jun 1, 2010)

SherpaDave said:


> Plan chili dogs for every meal. That should encourage proper distancing.


LMAO thanks,

I am a little depressed, was planning a epic year of rafting. If I sound like a whining, selfish boater, it is because I am. The luck of the draw was great to me this year, the luck of the Irish not so much lately. I could not ever bring myself to violate the various Governors rules of the states I need to pass through or raft in, so I'm hoping Quarantining for 14 days goes away in 14 days.

But you got a good chuckle out of me.

Our new launch safety lecture will have to include, stay safe, looking forward to seeing you all again at the takeout.


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## Conundrum (Aug 23, 2004)

carvedog said:


> Seems like you are the one overthinking it. I love to meet new folks on the river. You go hang out with whoever you want. I don't care. This thread obviously doesn't apply to you. Still you feel compelled to tell us how wrong we are doing it.
> 
> Twenty three people on this trip back in 2015 and it was one of the best ever. Planning was easy too. I have a spreadsheet. It takes a few minutes to set up, but no PhD.
> If you don't like cool river people you wouldn't like this trip.
> ...


Is that Buck in back row next to the wrestler? I bet that was a fun trip if so.


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## carvedog (May 11, 2005)

Conundrum said:


> Is that Buck in back row next to the wrestler? I bet that was a fun trip if so.


Yes my brother. Buck SUPed it at six(?) feet. He did great. Such a fun trip. Sure had a close one with him this winter. 

It truly was one of my best Middle Forks in a long line of 5 star trips. God I love that place and how it (usually) brings out the best in people. 

Love to get some boating in with you at some point.


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## jwburdge (Apr 9, 2014)

With proper planning I think river trips can be safe and doable this summer, obviously some concessions will have to be made. Trip size should absolutely be limited to 10, I know it is a bummer but contact-tracing 10 people still results in lots and lots of potential infection. Group interactions can be adjusted to accommodate distancing and shuttling can be done with extreme care (and trusting your group has been "doing the right thing" before the trip).
We had a March Ruby trip planned and figured the logistics to do it safely, but canceled it anyway do to the optics of pulling a trailer loaded with rafts across the state. That and the statewide shelter in place order. Now as it is lifted I think we can do it safely.
My wife and I started to plan to get out on the Upper C with our son this weekend. We figured we could wouldn't need to stop anywhere on the way in or back, just at the putin/takeout. We decided not to go because Eagle county is asking non-residents to stay away. We could do it and never see or come in contact with anyone else, but I have to honor the counties ordinances.
I'd love to get out on the ark for some kayaking, but Chaffee county is the same, and I would definitely come in contact with people if I went to BV.
For now I am just waiting for the towns to open up to non-residence and planning smaller trips. It also helps that I don't have the schedule this summer that allows for anything longer than an extended weekend (damn nursing school....).


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## DoubleShadow (May 2, 2013)

I honestly don't know if there is going to be a season this year. I think most people are hopeful right now because things got crazy and now it seems to be getting better. But I'm really afraid of what will happen in the next month and a half as states continue to re-open and people act like idiots. I really think that we haven't even seen the big spike in most western states yet. States will most likely be trying to go back into lock-down mode in a month due to massive jumps in the numbers of infected people. It won't take much for them to shut it all down, including river trips. I think right now your best bet is if you have trips in late August and September. Pre-trip testing is a good idea if you can count on the tests. But most of those tests have a 30% false positive result, so you really can't rely on that at all and the antibody tests are just as unreliable. Really the best bet might be solo private or within the household trips. I could see it also being really difficult to find shuttles if it all goes sideways again. I'm hoping for the best, but March and April were most likely only the tip of the iceberg for the inter-mountain west IMHO.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

jwburdge said:


> With proper planning I think river trips can be safe and doable this summer, obviously some concessions will have to be made. Trip size should absolutely be limited to 10, I know it is a bummer but contact-tracing 10 people still results in lots and lots of potential infection. Group interactions can be adjusted to accommodate distancing and shuttling can be done with extreme care (and trusting your group has been "doing the right thing" before the trip).





DoubleShadow said:


> Really the best bet might be solo private or within the household trips. I could see it also being really difficult to find shuttles if it all goes sideways again. I'm hoping for the best, but March and April were most likely only the tip of the iceberg for the inter-mountain west IMHO.



Keep your group small...and keep your group consistent. Having 8-10 people this weekend and boating with a different group of 8-10 people next weekend might not be the best idea...but if your whole regular crew keeps their exposure down, you shouldn't have any more exposure if you go with them once vs going with them 10 times.




DoubleShadow said:


> I honestly don't know if there is going to be a season this year. I think most people are hopeful right now because things got crazy and now it seems to be getting better. But I'm really afraid of what will happen in the next month and a half as states continue to re-open and people act like idiots. I really think that we haven't even seen the big spike in most western states yet. States will most likely be trying to go back into lock-down mode in a month due to massive jumps in the numbers of infected people. It won't take much for them to shut it all down, including river trips.



I think you're right.
And even if people don't act like idiots, people will cross over from all over the country a lot more than they have in the past 2 months and suddenly cases will spike.





> I think right now your best bet is if you have trips in late August and September.


I wouldn't even plan on that.


Take the opportunities that come your way and create interesting trips in your own back yard.


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## mtriverrat (Jan 29, 2012)

Think of all the people on your trip as your new family. I agree that having your “family” be extremely careful the 2.5 weeks prior to your trip and getting to the put in. No restaurant meals, wear a mask everywhere like grocery stores, etc. If your “family” doesn’t have anything to share- you should all be ok. As a contact investigator it would be hard to not identify everyone on a river trip as anything but a close contact. That means if one of you converts on the trip or soon after- everyone is in quarantine for 2 weeks. The incubation period is 14-16 days including asymptomatic shedding. Even if you test negative the day you take off- doesn’t mean you aren’t brewing it. We also don’t have verification that if you have positive antibodies that you have immunity-so that test doesn’t help much. All that being said - I am planning a trip with people I trust. My new “family”. Good luck everyone in your decisions - tough times. One thing I can tell you for sure is that you do not want this, so be careful!


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## davbaker (Aug 4, 2013)

First off, thank's Carvedog for a thoughtful post that could have been derailed fast into political finger pointing - so far so good. I am the TL on a MFS trip in late July, and I also happen to be a physician who has been immersed in COVID-19. You would think I might have special insight into the wisdom of such a trip, the likelihood of it even running, and how best to mitigate risk. Yet I struggle with it and try to be clear minded, not letting my intense desire to get out there cloud my judgement.

The bottom line is I do think a trip like this can potentially be done responsibly if we do not just give lip service to the type of precautions mentioned above. On the river and in camp, I think the risk of transmission is low with good hand hygiene, cautious kitchen practices (mask, gloves, limiting who is in the kitchen), and general social distancing. I honestly do not see the groover as a major issue as long as there is good hand washing - in hospitals across the nation we are not making any crazy rules about staff bathrooms, and we are not seeing huge outbreaks among healthcare workers from toilets (though maybe hard to study).

I am conflicted about descending on Idaho and the possibility of another outbreak like in Sun Valley. Yet I plan to be as meticulous as possible - mask and gloves at gas stations/ATMs, all shopping at home, wipe down truck before and after shuttle, only family in truck, etc.

The idea of testing trip members prior is interesting. Carvedog, I haven't researched the home study you mentioned, but I can say there are a lot of tests out there with relatively high false positive and false negative results. We really struggled with this at our hospital which was at the initial epicenter of the outbreak, and even with the best test out there we see patients with classic COVID-19 test negative initially, then positive on a subsequent test. As a healthcare worker, I will definitely test prior to going - though I am 99% sure I had COVID-19 the week prior to our first cases. Testing or not, it will be important that everyone on the trip 100% commits to NOT going if they have any sign of illness - it doesn't matter if the symptoms start at the launch, it doesn't matter if it is the permit holder and the whole trip gets cancelled at the last minute.

Despite everything I said above, I am going to continue to research this, am going to discuss with our head of Infectious Disease (which I am dreading - though an outdoorsy guy he is pretty cautious), and I am going to see what happens over the next 2 months. Our understanding of the virus and how to protect ourselves evolves quickly - each week our infection control policies seem to change. If the staged opening of Idaho is a disaster, well the decision is made for us.


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## uh eau (Jun 12, 2008)

*Keep it family*

Hi all,

Thanks to (most) for the thoughtful posts. Your plans and considerations have given me a lot to (re)consider. But bottom-line - it's a 48 mile bike shuttle to run the Rogue, so that's our first multi-day for the summer, as soon as school lets out for my kids. We'll see how it goes and then plan some more.

I'm not Doctor Dave (even if I, too, live and work in Kirkland), so it's not a normal reaction for me to grap PPE before helping someone. And there's just too many times where someone needs help on trips - simple stuff like a minor slice in kitchen, or a boat getting hung up, or ...

The most recent stuff I've read on CoVID transmission highlights (time x proximity). For 99% of a river trip, we can minimize that. But it's the heart pumping moments that can happen (and the yelling or 1st aid that accompany those moments) that give me pause. I don't want to be out there and have any reservations about working as a team to help one another. And I don't see any way to avoid having reservations, other than family-only.

I'm lucky to have two teenagers that love to kayak with me, and we live in Western WA, with lots of day trips we can bike shuttle. The Sky bike shuttle is about 10 minutes. There are lots of 30 minute bike shuttles. So until state and county lands close again, we've got whitewater options.

What ever you decide, be safe out there. Hopefully staying safe won't ruin the fun and comraderie of river-time.


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## [email protected] (Jun 1, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> LMAO thanks,
> 
> I am a little depressed, was planning a epic year of rafting. If I sound like a whining, selfish boater, it is because I am. The luck of the draw was great to me this year, the luck of the Irish not so much lately. I could not ever bring myself to violate the various Governors rules of the states I need to pass through or raft in, so I'm hoping Quarantining for 14 days goes away in 14 days.
> 
> ...


Montana Governor came through just in time. I hit the Smith June 1st. Sent out e-mails about new safety health thoughts for everyone's input. It will be an all family trip with one exception, great friend that adds so much to a trip, he is a always invite, no matter what. We plan to mask the cooks and anyone near or entering the kitchen area. Everyone will bring their own hand sanitizer and carry at all times. We will wash everything over and over and hope the river gods watch over us. I'm actually more worried about the up and back trip then on the river. Seven hundred miles of exposure to strange gas pumps, restrooms and extra exposure to people we do not know. That risk is not going away in the foreseeable future in my opinion. The only choice is to stay home and sloooowly die on your couch or take a risk. This thread has been a good one.


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## AbnMike (May 14, 2020)

*Update on CDC Guidance on transmission*

Thought this was interesting and topical to this thread:

The CDC has updated its guidance on the spread of the virus on this page along with caveats that they still don't understand everything about it and people need to be diligent.

Apparently the "lives on surfaces for 3 days" was not peer reviewed information so now surface transmission is ranked as low and "not thought to be the main way the virus spreads"

Be vigilant. Be safe. But this might ease some anxiety.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/201...ronavirus/2019-ncov/prepare/transmission.html


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## noot (Jan 24, 2012)

I think everyone should be scared shitless and stay home so that way I can have the river all to myself  But on a serious note, I am really sorry for everyone who has been impacted. I agree we should just be smart about who we are going with and how we take care of ourselves before and during the trip.


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## BenSlaughter (Jun 16, 2017)

FWIW, last night I was listening to an interview with an epidemiologist, he pointed to the recent data that shows the risk of transmission of covid while outdoors was exceptionally low.


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## [email protected] (Jun 1, 2010)

I just had a thought, my first in weeks. When I travel and stay in motels I always take the bed spreads and blankets off and use my Sleeping bag. Probably even more important now. Same goes for wiping down TV controller, sink top and faucets.


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## raymo (Aug 10, 2008)

*Excilent advise!*



[email protected] said:


> I just had a thought, my first in weeks. When I travel and stay in motels I always take the bed spreads and blankets off and use my Sleeping bag. Probably even more important now. Same goes for wiping down TV controller, sink top and faucets.


I have stayed in my fair share of motel rooms(>1500) over the years, many were very nice establishments, I know what goes on in those rooms. The first thing I would do when I got into my room, is call house cleaning and make them change the sheets and bring a fresh bed spread that was still wrapped. I know for a fact, they do not always change the linen, definitely not the bed spread, even at the very high dollar hotels. Definitely an easy way to spread a disease, definitely good advice for any boaters staying at motels or on vacation's anywhere in the U.S. or abroad. Over the years I collected so many soaps, shampoos, hair conditioners, shower caps, toothbrushes, and toothpaste, I did not have to purchase them, till my kids started growing up and spending the nights at their friends houses, they would come home and tell me that their friends had big bars of soap and shampoo bottles in their bathrooms.....


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## raymo (Aug 10, 2008)

You don't want to even look at some of the mattress. I have changed rooms a few times, most are ok though.


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