# ISSUES WITH 4CRS



## jmack

So there I was, in the Vallecito parking lot. Due to the recent rain the ground was muddy, so I carefully placed my kayak on the best gravel spot I could find. It was a nice day out so I expected other boaters to be around. What I did not expect was the blatant disrespect shown by one "Tony M" as he MOVED MY KAYAK aside to unload his boat. Now I assume he was just flexing his arm for the tourists in the parking lot, but that does not make this intentional act any less hurtful.

Had this incident ended there, I would not be writing this. Not more that a half hour later (I am a hiking stud), I was cruising down the creek above a certain rapid called Fuzzy Bunny. I am just a recreational paddler, so I don't really like catching eddies. Lo and behold, who pulls out in front of me but the same "Tony M." As I sat there aghast, he then proceeded to clap his hands while running the waterfall, as if to rub it in my face (see photo). 

Fortunately, after a good cry, I was able to channel my inner strength gained from years as a professional raft guide, and slicked off that boof followed by several more. Upon returning to town, I headed straight to 4CRS to complain. Unfortunately, upon explaining what had occurred, the staff was completely unhelpful. They responded "he's our boss, what do you want us to do?" and "Dude, relax, he only has one hand."

Clearly, the next step is to alert the authorities: the Sheriff, the Forest Service, maybe a letter to my Congressman. Please give me come guidance on my next steps. Thank you for your support during this difficult time.


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## deepsouthpaddler

Ha ha! Nice one. Great hand clap off the boof shot.


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## kayakfreakus

I'd sue for defamation of character or something else, if he owns a kayak shop he should have deep pockets


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## caverdan

If you would just carry a gun in your first aid kit.......this whole scene could be avoided. Just saying...


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## soggy_tortillas

You're probably not usually the guy who likes to call people out...


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## dfresh

I don't think he was clapping, I mean, that was a pretty narrow shoot. You wouldn't want to loose an arm! Just brush it off jmack, and maybe just remove his drain plug next time...


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## KSC

Hey, I recognize that guy. A few years back I was showing off some of my latest freestyle moves in Tunnel for a big crowd that had gathered to watch me run the Gore Race. That a-hole just bombs in on me and knocks me out right when I was going to throw my biggest scoring trick. Looks like some people never change.


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## dfresh

KSC:
When your stuck side surfing (unintentionally), and someone helps you out by knocking you off Tunnel so as to not making a bigger fool of yourself, you should say, "hey, thanks, that was kinda embarrassing, thank god that guy got me out of that situation". 
Although I do like side surfing and twirling my paddle like a baton!


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## kayaklifeislife

*Keep Calm and Kayak On*

You are acting like "Tony" broke your kayak and caused you to get into a life threatening accident. The only thing he really broke was your ego. Next time ask him politely not to move your boat. Maybe he accidentally cut you off in the river which isn't the nicest thing but hey you never know maybe he picked the wrong line. I would not make this out be a big deal with any authorities. Just stay positive about the event and take it as a lesson to let go of resentment and understand you can only control your own actions not his.


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## zbaird

The question is, did he yell fuzzy little bunny or fuzzy little buddy as he styled the boof?


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## seantana

kayaklifeislife said:


> You are acting like "Tony" broke your kayak and caused you to get into a life threatening accident. The only thing he really broke was your ego. Next time ask him politely not to move your boat. Maybe he accidentally cut you off in the river which isn't the nicest thing but hey you never know maybe he picked the wrong line. I would not make this out be a big deal with any authorities. Just stay positive about the event and take it as a lesson to let go of resentment and understand you can only control your own actions not his.


In case you missed it: http://www.mountainbuzz.com/forums/f41/river-runners-bv-58516.html


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## Paddle_like_Hell

Never ceases to amaze me how few people on here have an actual funny bone. This post is hilarious!

My only attempt to understand the two taking this at all seriously is that the Western Slope, as isolated as it is, leads to locals who have little to do but bitch about whitewater parks, ban recreational dispensaries, and fuck sheep.


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## soggy_tortillas

Only the Greeks fuck sheep around here, boy.


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## SteamboatBORN

Whatever happened to just punching people in the face? Seems to get your point across when guy wakes up with a shiner.


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## johnryan

I really don't like it when somebody moves my boat without me knowing it, and turns it around! Then when I get into it I'm backwards.


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## dirtbagkayaker

This is unforgivable. I can't believe that he put your boat in the mud. Try to get a piece of his hair and put it in a pickle jar on a full moon. That will fix him!


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## 4CRS

*Issues with JMack*

JMack, we kinda think you should just call it even given the fact that we have to mop up your tears and back hair every time you come into the shop. Just be grateful you didn't catch the "clap" from TonyM.


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## kayaklifeislife

Paddle_like_Hell said:


> Never ceases to amaze me how few people on here have an actual funny bone. This post is hilarious!
> 
> My only attempt to understand the two taking this at all seriously is that the Western Slope, as isolated as it is, leads to locals who have little to do but bitch about whitewater parks, ban recreational dispensaries, and fuck sheep.


I fully agree I'm not going to lie I could barely read this out loud to my friend without bursting into laughter. The fact that someone can't handle this means they can't the sport and lifestyle of kayaking.


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## soggy_tortillas

kayaklifeislife said:


> I fully agree I'm not going to lie I could barely read this out loud to my friend without bursting into laughter. The fact that someone can't handle this means they can't the sport and lifestyle of kayaking.


Hehe... I think he was actually talking about you taking the thread seriously. Have you read the relevant thread? River Runners BV
This one's just a spoof.


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## SteamboatBORN

Whos taking this serious? Its the internet, nothing is serious!


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## BEArmstrong

One of those 4CRS guys brushed against my boat at the putin to OBJ a few weeks ago. Totally brushed my boat with their entire calf causing my boat to pivot on the rock it was resting on, and then it slid off the rock entirely onto another rock. At least two new scratches on my hull resulted from this incident. I'm shocked with the lack of river etiquette they displayed that day. I plan on calling their general manager and making them aware of this incident.


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## dirtbagkayaker

SteamboatBORN said:


> Whos taking this serious? Its the internet, nothing is serious!


Don't fade us out steam. This is serious shit. Next thing you know these 4CRS guys will be tossing boats in the back of trucks, running drops with out air bags, and waving at kayakers driving by. Do you know how dangerous it is to drive with one hand? We need to come together and put and end to this. We have already seen these guys pulling off no handed boofs. Whats next. I'm drafting a letter to American whitewater. I hope you will sign it.


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## soggy_tortillas

Start a gofundme page to raise money for a lawyer so that you can get these fuckers banned from the river forever.


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## dfresh

Whoa guys, reporting to AM, raise money to get a lawyer???!?! Isn't that going a little too far? I mean I don't like scratches on my kayak as much as the next guy, but this is getting serious. 
P.S. kayacking without air bags is just dumb and irresponsible, I swim every time I go out. Would hate to loose a primo, scratch fee boat.


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## dirtbagkayaker

dfresh said:


> Whoa guys, reporting to AM, raise money to get a lawyer???!?!


In no way is this going too far. I'm willing to donate a 6 pack of PBR and a high 5. Thats how serious I am. Maybe if we get enough PBRs and high 5s together we could invite the 4CRS crew to a meeting of the minds around the firepan.

I'd like to hear 4CRS take on this.


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## Cphilli

You can't get those scratches back. I'd ask for 1 obj lap worth of money back for that wear and tear.


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## BEArmstrong

That's a good idea. I'd say one OBJ worth of scratches is at least worth a pair of pogies or something. I can't even look at my Nomad anymore without thinking about that awful incident. And Nomads are really tough to scratch so they must have brushed it super hard. Not cool.


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## Plecoptera

I haven't looked at JMack's posts over on the Ark pissing fest, but I think I saw one. I suspect this is an attempt at satire. Does Ft. Lewis even offer a writing class, or is it all 'life experience' now?


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## TonyM

JMack, I would never mess with you, on or off the river, I know who you really are...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlw2YpBIq2Q


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## dirtbagkayaker

Holy shit. This just got violent. I'm out here. TonyM I'm sorry Jmacks boat got in your way.


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## kayaklifeislife

I think the guys from 4CRS are cool dudes.


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## Plecoptera

That reminds me, Kent Ford still around? Haven't seen him in ages. Also, I thought Gary Skiba moved down there.


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## Ken Vanatta

jmack said:


> So there I was, in the Vallecito parking lot. Due to the recent rain the ground was muddy, so I carefully placed my kayak on the best gravel spot I could find. It was a nice day out so I expected other boaters to be around. What I did not expect was the blatant disrespect shown by one "Tony M" as he MOVED MY KAYAK aside to unload his boat. Now I assume he was just flexing his arm for the tourists in the parking lot, but that does not make this intentional act any less hurtful.
> 
> Had this incident ended there, I would not be writing this. Not more that a half hour later (I am a hiking stud), I was cruising down the creek above a certain rapid called Fuzzy Bunny. I am just a recreational paddler, so I don't really like catching eddies. Lo and behold, who pulls out in front of me but the same "Tony M." As I sat there aghast, he then proceeded to clap his hands while running the waterfall, as if to rub it in my face (see photo).
> 
> Fortunately, after a good cry, I was able to channel my inner strength gained from years as a professional raft guide, and slicked off that boof followed by several more. Upon returning to town, I headed straight to 4CRS to complain. Unfortunately, upon explaining what had occurred, the staff was completely unhelpful. They responded "he's our boss, what do you want us to do?" and "Dude, relax, he only has one hand."
> 
> Clearly, the next step is to alert the authorities: the Sheriff, the Forest Service, maybe a letter to my Congressman. Please give me come guidance on my next steps. Thank you for your support during this difficult time.


 JMack, 

I didn't read all of the replies posted, but sorry ... you must be such a looser. In case you didn't know, 4CRS is kind of a big deal on this blue marble. They get a free pass. Granted you must be a hiking stud and raft guide and all ... so you do got that going for you. But, hey, at least you're complaining, right? Those guys at 4CRS surely know about the casual boater use etiquette of this trickle called Valliceto. I mean, after all, it's not the Baker's Box. I guess it's similar to that on the Hecla Junction boat ramp, right?. Hmmm ... What is the proper etiquette for a recreational private boater amidst the commercial traffic at Valliceto? Perhaps step aside cupcake? Tony just might learn you something. After all, he probably runs Valliceto twice a day, seven days a week, 364. Maybe he's supposed to fulfill a schedule that just doesn't afford you the pace that he has to keep. He's a bizness man, damn it. Watch and learn. It's all good. Heck, JMack.,he just might be so gracious as to help you out if you ever find yourself in need. By golly, I can only hope you could do the same for me if I were ever to achieve the honor of you showing a stick like me how Valliceto etiquette is properly staged on a busy day. I know nothing, so it may be nearly too challenging for a looser like me, though. But that is your point, isn't it! We want to play too! Yeah, that's it. Frankly, I'm with you now. You got be so worked up that I should call that lazy slow boater Corra dude to see what reigns he has on such the out of control, disrespectful, fall clapping, Meiley mister. And if he doesn't do something for you, then maybe I can escalate the rivalries to Corra's 3 second faster fIbark nemesis at the Principal's office. We've got rights, Jmack. Yeah, those guys are better than me at least, but we've got to fight for our right to party, bro. Or at least say excuse me, sorry, thank you, pardon me, may I get out of your way, make a great day, cheers, no worries! Did I mention cheers? And I bet you have. Remember, you're unique ... Just like everyone else. Throw down ... Get back up again.

Strong work!

More looser, Kenny V


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## erdvm1

Josh, I'm waiting for all your girlfriends to get in here and defend your honor.
This an outrage!


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## dbendell

TonyM said:


> JMack, I would never mess with you, on or off the river, I know who you really are...
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlw2YpBIq2Q


I think they sell those big nasty grandma panties at Wal-Mart, isle 4


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## ranamafana

Hmmm, sounds suspiciously like a bad case of testosterone poisoning. Sure, it would be more courteous to say "hey mind if I move your boat?", but it's not like anyone drove over your paddle on purpose or called you funny looking on your birthday. Lighten up, isn't it supposed to be about having fun?.....which I must say I am having tons of, just reading all the posts in this funny ass thread.:grin:


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## Plecoptera

WTF? The Ark thread is at over 8,000 views and still among the most active, this one is already dying. I did my guide course up on the San Miguel, and the Telluride guys told me you Durango guys got paid in dried beans. Certainly, you must have more gas left.


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## sammyphsyco

Best publicity stunt everrrrrrrr, brilliant marketing 4crs.


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## mkashzg

sammyphsyco said:


> Best publicity stunt everrrrrrrr, brilliant marketing 4crs.



It sure is! I won't set foot on their property.


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## J Dogg

I too have had such experiences with 4CRS. It wasn't but a week or 5 back that I was getting into my kayak at the very dangerous smelters whitewater park, near the Ponderosa keeper hole when I blindly peeled out of the eddy trying to go downstream. At that point I got sucked into the very dangerous recirculating hole to find not 2 seconds later one of the 4CRS employees also coming into said hole from above. This person should have seen me and given me right of way as I was immediately downstream, however they now were stuck in this absolutely terrifying situation with me. They had the nerve to let go of their paddle with one hand and make kind of a c gesture with their hand as if making fun of this terrifying situation we were in. 
After somehow fortunately escaping this with my life, I was worried as I read in the local paper that this section of river is very dangerous and claims lives, I called 4CRS to complain. After incoherently yelling for a while at the person who answered the phone, he had the nerve to tell me I was at fault. I then asked to speak to the owner who listened well.


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## 4CRS

sammyphsyco said:


> Best publicity stunt everrrrrrrr, brilliant marketing 4crs.


Hey, there's no better marketing than a glowing customer review. 




Plecoptera said:


> That reminds me, Kent Ford still around? Haven't seen him in ages.


Kent still teaches a few classes here and there, but he's mostly traveling and teaching these days. 



dirtbagkayaker said:


> In no way is this going too far. I'm willing to donate a 6 pack of PBR and a high 5. Thats how serious I am. Maybe if we get enough PBRs and high 5s together we could invite the 4CRS crew to a meeting of the minds around the firepan.
> 
> I'd like to hear 4CRS take on this.


Unless there's boofs or hot boater chicks involved, its gonna take a LOT more than PBR. We've been getting spoiled with the keg-o-rator of revolving SKA beers in the garage. Come buy something and maybe we'll share some with ya. Unless your name is Jmack.


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## Plecoptera

"Kent still teaches a few classes here and there, but he's mostly traveling and teaching these days."

That much is at least good to hear. Not many canoeing instructors left. ACA did a great job of destroying the industry.


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## Cphilli

Private boaters are soooo dumb.

You need to get out of the way when you're getting recirced in that hole, especially for any guys employed by 4crs, there are plenty of eddies. And that "c" thing is what's called a brown claw, it's really dickish you didn't respond by chugging a beer in the hole.


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## adgeiser

I too have been wronged by the 4CRNS crew. 

After meeting them at Bailey fest every year, my wife forcefully dragged me to Durango AFTER the water was all gone. Trying to make the best of an obviously bad situation... I decided to stop by the shop and say hi to Tony. 
Yep you guessed it not only was he not there, but then they sent me away with a stack of 'free' stickers. 
Ok I know what you're thinking, I didn't have to talk to Tony and I got some free schwag, win win, right?

Not so fast, I got home and plastered those free bees on my boat and paddle (relax john, the confluence stickers are in the better spots).... Yep, all of the 4CRnS stickers are peeling off or have all been torn. 

Then they didn't even come to Bailey Fest last year so I could complain about it in person. 

I demand a immediate.... Wait what was I bitching about?


Ohhhh water!!! Gotta kayak. 


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## Roguelawyer

I kind of liked the idea of raising money for an attorney. Sounds like several promising cases, maybe a class action. What is holding you back. Stand up for your rights. Don't just lay down and get walked on.


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## buckmanriver

*4CR*

One of those 4 corners guides took a shit in my kayak while I was sleeping at the Cherry Creek take out last weekend.

This is a national issue now boys!


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## 4CRS

buckmanriver said:


> One of those 4 corners guides took a shit in my kayak while I was sleeping at the Cherry Creek take out last weekend.


Oh come on now... Why would we even be in CA? You guys have no water.


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## sammyphsyco

If 4crs had some hot female guides I would like to be abused by them. Just tell me where and when.


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## rg5hole

This is getting out of control. My sheep and I had never tried to ban dispensaries...that is until my sheep left me for JMACK. I tried to tell her that was not a black sheep but an imposter with an unkempt set of pubic hair all over his body.

I tell you I'm skeptical of this whole situation, 4CRS has been attitude free since 1983 but it does appear that TONY M was giving JMACK the finger in that fuzzy photo, I know I would have been...I can't wait to get her back from that cuckold sheep fucker.


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## one legged wonder

KSC said:


> Hey, I recognize that guy. A few years back I was showing off some of my latest freestyle moves in Tunnel for a big crowd that had gathered to watch me run the Gore Race. That a-hole just bombs in on me and knocks me out right when I was going to throw my biggest scoring trick. Looks like some people never change.



Now now KSC I think u owe the Tony M a big thank you and a six pack for this. I mean if he hadn't been polite enough to boof on u you may have had to break ur long and world famous streak of never swimming out of Tunnel. And there would you be?


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## DES

This reeks of gay undertones and subtext...


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## jmack

Well, well, well...The chickens have come home to roost. You messed with me one too many times TonyM and now your nom de pen has been BANNED! That's what we call karma you beater!


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## TonyM

*French tickler*

I'm no high class attorney and I am definitely not french, but yes, my alias has been banned. And seeing as how you brought up karma, it was my comments on the Jackson Karma vs. Dagger Mamba video that finally got me booted. Frankly, I did not think my observations on said video were that rude or offensive but whatever, some people just can't take a joke.


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## soggy_tortillas

TonyM said:


> I'm no high class attorney and I am definitely not french, but yes, my alias has been banned. And seeing as how you brought up karma, it was my comments on the Jackson Karma vs. Dagger Mamba video that finally got me booted. Frankly, I did not think my observations on said video were that rude or offensive but whatever, some people just can't take a joke.


Uhhhhh.... wasn't that entire video intended as a joke?


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## dirtbagkayaker

That video was funny as shit! Everyone I sent it to loved it! 

the buzz attaches a cookie to your computer with a unique number associated to the cookie. When you log on the buzz it connects the computer cookie to user name. So, if you ya want to sport 2 accounts you need to keep them on two different computers.


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