# RIP Dolores



## mikepart (Jul 7, 2009)

The Cortez Journal 03/17/2015 | Dolores basin needs more snow

"Because of limited snowpack, there will be no whitewater boating season this year for the Lower Dolores, officials said. A whitewater release below the dam last occurred in 2011."


----------



## lmyers (Jun 10, 2008)

Where's Hayduke when you need him...


----------



## Id725 (Nov 22, 2003)

"Lord, what we need here is a pre-cision earthquake."


----------



## Andy H. (Oct 13, 2003)

I can't put my hands on the exact quote but the passage from Cadillac Desert by the late Marc Reisner comes to mind right now. 

Generally to the effect that the "Bureau of Reclamation spent billions building dams and flooding fertile bottom land and important natural habitat so it could irrigate marginal western scrublands with heavily subsidized water so farmers could grow crops the government was paying eastern farmers not to grow."


----------



## duct tape (Aug 25, 2009)

Andy H. said:


> I can't put my hands on the exact quote but the passage from Cadillac Desert by the late Marc Reisner comes to mind right now.
> 
> Generally to the effect that the "Bureau of Reclamation spent billions building dams and flooding fertile bottom land and important natural habitat so it could irrigate marginal western scrublands with heavily subsidized water so farmers could grow crops the government was paying eastern farmers not to grow."


You pretty much nailed it. He goes on to say the wheat, barley, alfalfa, etc., for which farmers back east receive government subsidies to not grow, go to feed cattle which in most years are an export crop.

At the time of the book, around 85% of Colorado Compact water was going to agriculture. I think I've read it's closer to 82% now in the upper basin states and 80% for the lower basin ones.


----------



## duct tape (Aug 25, 2009)

Don't live there but I think, for the Dolores river valley, the pinto bean crop is one of the largest. ??


----------



## mikepart (Jul 7, 2009)

duct tape said:


> Don't live there but I think, for the Dolores river valley, the pinto bean crop is one of the largest. ??


I'm no expert, but I believe that the bean farmers are mostly dry land farmers.


----------



## duct tape (Aug 25, 2009)

mikepart said:


> I'm no expert, but I believe that the bean farmers are mostly dry land farmers.


I think you're right. And not a cattle feed crop either...


----------



## mikepart (Jul 7, 2009)

duct tape said:


> I think you're right. And not a cattle feed crop either...


I've got a sack of Dove Creek pintos in my pantry right now.


----------



## duct tape (Aug 25, 2009)

Nothing in the world is more yielding and gentle than water. Yet it has no equal for conquering the resistant and tough. The flexible can overcome the unbending; the soft can overcome the hard. - Lao Tse

Taking too long Andy....


----------



## ArgoCat (May 14, 2007)

*Actually*

Project water is available for 61,660 acres and benefits the area`s economy by increasing agricultural production, and strengthening service-related enterprises dependent on agriculture. Main crops are alfalfa, pasture, barley, oats, and corn silage for livestock feed.

Straight from the US Bureau of Reclamation.


----------



## Slowmococo (Jan 24, 2015)

Maybe the dam will go the way of the Elwha. 
From an old C.W. McCall song from the 70's
Well, it's only gonna be about an hour, friend
'Til they dam your favorite river
So you can water-ski just one more reservoir


----------



## Chief Niwot (Oct 13, 2003)

My only trip down the Dolores was Memorial day weekend in 2004 at 3,500cfs. I hope to go again some day. :-(


----------



## eddy hopper (Sep 17, 2007)

Pretty much every year they say it's not going to run. One year they said no go and sure as shit they announced on Thursday we'd have weekend flows. Mostly had the whole river to ourselves. Not sure if that dude who after promising 2 weeks of release shut the flows after ten days with people still out there, if he still has his job... But not a cool move. The Dolores pre dam was an awesome river! RIP our river of sorrows.


----------



## Osseous (Jan 13, 2012)

Read this same basic thread every year right around now- but nobody ever elaborates on the run itself. Can somebody relate some details about what this run was once like? I'd sure like to hear more about it.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Mountain Buzz mobile app


----------



## restrac2000 (Mar 6, 2008)

The name definitely fits. It was the first multi-day river I rowed on so I have fond memories. My favorite camp of any river is in there and I haven't seen it in 6 years or so. I won't hold my breathe but I would jump on even for IK flows.

Phillip


----------



## Junk Show Tours (Mar 11, 2008)

Osseous said:


> Read this same basic thread every year right around now- but nobody ever elaborates on the run itself. Can somebody relate some details about what this run was once like? I'd sure like to hear more about it.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N900V using Mountain Buzz mobile app


Its a beautiful canyon with large ponderosa pines. The whitewater isn't continuous or even that plentiful, but Snaggletooth is a classic western rapid and the continuous three mile class iii rapid is awesome. The canyon between bedrock and slickrock is awesome, feels like you're in a tube. The lower canyon below gateway is awesome too, chicken raper is a long, complicated rapid.


----------



## grumper13 (Jan 14, 2008)

mikepart said:


> I'm no expert, but I believe that the bean farmers are mostly dry land farmers.


Right. 
It's the alfalfa (mostly). 
AND the whole thing (McPhee Damn) is a trans-basin diverson; it all goes into the San Juan drainage.
Don't get me started. 
However, me and others will be enjoying the upper (above Dolores town), and below the confluence with the San Miguel (and the San Miguel, too), from early April 'til early June.
And come see us (Dolores River Boating Advocates) at the Dolores River Festival on June 6th.


----------



## FastFXR (May 22, 2012)

Osseous said:


> Read this same basic thread every year right around now- but nobody ever elaborates on the run itself. Can somebody relate some details about what this run was once like? I'd sure like to hear more about it.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N900V using Mountain Buzz mobile app


Me too. The Dolores has been on my list for the past 3 years...but I had no idea it went from "no" to "No" to "NO". Stupid BLM and USGS. Lip service to enthusiasts, full service to farmers, outfitters, and fisherman.


In Moab tomorrow and am going to look at the Dolores confluence. This was gonna be my dream run--start of Dolores all the way into Moab. Am interested to see what kind of flow the D has.


----------



## Andy H. (Oct 13, 2003)

FastFXR said:


> Stupid BLM and USGS.


I don't think the BLM or USGS have anything to do with regulating flows from McPhee, that's probably the Bureau of Reclamation.


----------



## yetigonecrazy (May 23, 2005)

Slowmococo said:


> Maybe the dam will go the way of the Elwha.
> From an old C.W. McCall song from the 70's
> Well, it's only gonna be about an hour, friend
> 'Til they dam your favorite river
> So you can water-ski just one more reservoir


well lets be honest if youre going sing it like Mr Fries himself you gotta say it right, "just one more rezavwaaaaaar"

but indeed, when they take away our country they will take away our soul


----------



## restrac2000 (Mar 6, 2008)

grumper13 said:


> Right.
> It's the alfalfa (mostly).
> AND the whole thing (McPhee Damn) is a trans-basin diverson; it all goes into the San Juan drainage.
> Don't get me started.
> ...


I had no idea ya"ll existed. Here is their link for other people who are curious:

Dolores River Boating Advocates

Phillip


----------



## grumper13 (Jan 14, 2008)

Yeah, the BOR regulates McPhee, and the AG voice is about the only voice they hear.

If you look at the Dolores from the Colorado, you'll see flow in the 300s right now, from the San Miguel. Ya wanna see a sad sight, go look at the confluence of the San Miguel and the Dolores (accessible by county road); that flow is about 50 cfs right now. When we floated by last year on the San Miguel, the flow on the SM was in the 700s and it actually backed up the nearly empty (flowing at about 25 cfs) Dolores channel a ways. Last year, McPhee got lower than it has ever been (since being built in the mid-80s) and is still very low, and it won't fill this year. The "fill and spill" policy that the BOR follows, only allows for a spill (for boating, fish, habitat), AFTER the reservoir fills and the irrigation call is being met. It is assumed by the public that this is a directive in the dam contracts and agreements, but it is a CHOICE the BOR makes, to appease the loud clamoring of AG in our area. Gotta grow that hay. And in Montezuma and Dolores counties, below McPhee, that hay is ALL in the San Juan drainage, NOT the Dolores drainage.

There are several boater and habitat groups at the table, working to change things, but change is slow.


----------



## grumper13 (Jan 14, 2008)

restrac2000 said:


> I had no idea ya"ll existed. Here is their link for other people who are curious:
> 
> Dolores River Boating Advocates
> 
> Phillip


Yeah, we've been around for a few years. I'm the founding prez, now just a board member. We have been working with AW and other non-consumptive interests, to change things. And to keep our morale up in the face of this frustrating work, we've also been doing some projects upriver from the town of Dolores, like creating and enhancing access points, cleanups, and working with landowners to change the baaad habit of stringing barbed wire across the river (WTF?). Also, doing some work downriver, water monitoring and cleanups.


----------



## lmyers (Jun 10, 2008)

grumper13 said:


> Yeah, we've been around for a few years. I'm the founding prez, now just a board member. We have been working with AW and other non-consumptive interests, to change things. And to keep our morale up in the face of this frustrating work, we've also been doing some projects upriver from the town of Dolores, like creating and enhancing access points, cleanups, and working with landowners to change the baaad habit of stringing barbed wire across the river (WTF?). Also, doing some work downriver, water monitoring and cleanups.


Awesome! Thanks so much for your efforts!


----------



## CBow (Aug 26, 2007)

So glad I got to run Ponderosa Gorge in 2010 and Slickrock to Bedrock in 2011. Two of the most beautiful canyons in Colorado. May be a very long time if they ever run again, if ever. It will take a massive snow year to fill up McPhee and get a runnable release.


----------



## grumper13 (Jan 14, 2008)

lmyers said:


> Awesome! Thanks so much for your efforts!


Yup, thanks. And virtually every western river has some similar challenges (and other rivers, but I'm not up on their issues).
We have a choice: Hang together or hang separately.


----------



## merritrd (Feb 1, 2010)

*river info*

February 13, 2015--Proposal for Lower Dolores criticized (Cortez Journal)
3

The Montezuma County commission and San Juan Basin Farm Bureau have publicly come out against a fledgling proposal to create a National Conservation Area on the Lower Dolores River. Citing concerns that the designation could result in additional water being released downstream from McPhee Reservoir, the commissioners voted 3-0 to oppose any such plan. “At the beginning, the goal of the NCA was to protect our irrigation water for farmers and ranchers, and as things progressed I feel it has gotten away from that and went to native fish,” said commissioner Larry Don Suckla, who is on an NCA legislative committee. But others involved said it is too early to take sides because the bill is still in a draft form and has not been released to the public yet. “I think there is some misunderstanding of the intent of the NCA,” said Al Heaton, also a member of a legislative committee. “Once it’s out, there will be significant time for the public to read the draft and weigh in on it. It’s good to air it out, because there’s room for discussion, clarification and negotiation.” The Lower Dolores Plan Working Group has been researching legislation for an NCA on the Lower Dolores River below McPhee dam since 2010. A draft is near completion and is expected to be available for review in the coming weeks. At Monday’s commissioner meeting, Suckla said a draft he saw was “disturbing.” He was critical of the balance of 15 organizations listed in a memorandum of agreement directing the NCA proposal. “This list is so unfair as far as equal representation for citizens of the county,” he said. “As a commission, our job is to protect property and water rights in Montezuma County, and I only see five entities here that side with that. Where’s the mining interests, the farm bureau, the private landowner interests?” To view the full article visit the Cortez Journal.


----------



## grumper13 (Jan 14, 2008)

merritrd said:


> February 13, 2015--Proposal for Lower Dolores criticized (Cortez Journal)
> 3
> 
> The Montezuma County commission and San Juan Basin Farm Bureau have publicly come out against a fledgling proposal to create a National Conservation Area on the Lower Dolores River. Citing concerns that the designation could result in additional water being released downstream from McPhee Reservoir, the commissioners voted 3-0 to oppose any such plan. “At the beginning, the goal of the NCA was to protect our irrigation water for farmers and ranchers, and as things progressed I feel it has gotten away from that and went to native fish,” said commissioner Larry Don Suckla, who is on an NCA legislative committee. But others involved said it is too early to take sides because the bill is still in a draft form and has not been released to the public yet. “I think there is some misunderstanding of the intent of the NCA,” said Al Heaton, also a member of a legislative committee. “Once it’s out, there will be significant time for the public to read the draft and weigh in on it. It’s good to air it out, because there’s room for discussion, clarification and negotiation.” The Lower Dolores Plan Working Group has been researching legislation for an NCA on the Lower Dolores River below McPhee dam since 2010. A draft is near completion and is expected to be available for review in the coming weeks. At Monday’s commissioner meeting, Suckla said a draft he saw was “disturbing.” He was critical of the balance of 15 organizations listed in a memorandum of agreement directing the NCA proposal. “This list is so unfair as far as equal representation for citizens of the county,” he said. “As a commission, our job is to protect property and water rights in Montezuma County, and I only see five entities here that side with that. Where’s the mining interests, the farm bureau, the private landowner interests?” To view the full article visit the Cortez Journal.


Yeah, we got us some first class BUBBAS for county commissioners. There could be a reality show around their antics...they'd give Duck Dynasty a run for their money. And I know of what I speak, cuz I'm from bubba stock, myself.


----------



## Osseous (Jan 13, 2012)

"...to protect "our" water for irrigation"

Sent from my SM-N900V using Mountain Buzz mobile app


----------



## restrac2000 (Mar 6, 2008)

Osseous said:


> "...to protect "our" water for irrigation"
> 
> Sent from my SM-N900V using Mountain Buzz mobile app


Its not a shocking, irrational or illogical statement on their side. Water has always been a historical issue of contention and with the ongoing decade of relative drought in the west its even more so. I understand why locals will fight tooth and nail for water though I rarely support the plans, choices and outcomes it leads to. And when you are rooted firmly in a region and career reliant on that water, when it comes from said region then why wouldn't you see it as "yours/ours"? Its not in line with various laws and the specific conservation mindset of boaters like us but to me its understandable. 

I wish the Dolores would flow more consistently (and even free), I firmly believe McPhee was a bad decision implemented at the end of an dam friendly era but I can't help but have compassion for those who happen to hold world views/values different than my own. Even when it means we are oppositional politically. I don't envy those involved in mitigating changes between such disparate parties but its the only way to lead to change. Value-based politics is always sloppy.

Phillip


----------



## grumper13 (Jan 14, 2008)

restrac2000 said:


> Its not a shocking, irrational or illogical statement on their side. Water has always been a historical issue of contention and with the ongoing decade of relative drought in the west its even more so. I understand why locals will fight tooth and nail for water though I rarely support the plans, choices and outcomes it leads to. And when you are rooted firmly in a region and career reliant on that water, when it comes from said region then why wouldn't you see it as "yours/ours"? Its not in line with various laws and the specific conservation mindset of boaters like us but to me its understandable.
> 
> I wish the Dolores would flow more consistently (and even free), I firmly believe McPhee was a bad decision implemented at the end of an dam friendly era but I can't help but have compassion for those who happen to hold world views/values different than my own. Even when it means we are oppositional politically. I don't envy those involved in mitigating changes between such disparate parties but its the only way to lead to change. Value-based politics is always sloppy.
> 
> Phillip


Well stated. 

Also, I want to make a clarification, to avoid any misunderstandings. Earlier in this thread, I stated that the McPhee project is a "trans-basin diversion". On a local level and in my mind, it is, but in the legal sense of the term, it is not, because the San Juan and Dolores are both tributaries of the Colorado.

And after all that: Let's go boatin'!


----------



## restrac2000 (Mar 6, 2008)

grumper13 said:


> Well stated.
> 
> Also, I want to make a clarification, to avoid any misunderstandings. Earlier in this thread, I stated that the McPhee project is a "trans-basin diversion". On a local level and in my mind, it is, but in the legal sense of the term, it is not, because the San Juan and Dolores are both tributaries of the Colorado.
> 
> And after all that: Let's go boatin'!


Enjoy the San Miguel and lower Dolores while they flow. 

Phillip


----------



## Schutzie (Feb 5, 2013)

What was it like, rafting Dolores before McPhee?

Well, the upper canyon, as someone said, is a lot of pine and vertical walls, but also some fine stretches of whitewater; class 2-3. 
Snaggletooth was always my Waterloo; if I didn't tear up the boat I'd get swamped, or bust an oar or get my butt kicked. Just below Snaggletooth on the right side was a sheer undercut wall that could scare the beans out of grizzled guides; the idea of getting wedged in there kept reasonable people awake at night, even though the reality was it was a simple hazard to avoid.

Hidden campsites tucked away behind old rockfalls, or just hit the beach about anywhere, camp among century old pines.

Below Bedrock the canyon opened up into red sandstone walls as awe inspiring as anything in the Grand. A campsite on the left below Bedrock nestled at the base of a sheer red sandstone wall, protected from the rains, a perfect porta pot hide on a finger of land sticking out over the river to contemplate life, sunsets that always dazzled, and for the hardy a (secret) hike to the top of the canyon and into a slice of heaven.

Bucks Alley demanding all your attention and skill lest you wrap yourself on a rock; continuous fast moving current into tight channels with no room for failure. A test of skill and equipment.

In the 90's we hiked into Snaggletooth; Ok, hike isn't quite the term, 4 wheel and a short walk. The rock was still there, but the river bed was full of tamarask and weeds and even small trees; even if Dolores woke up, it would be years before the river was again healthy.

Dolores is what I most fondly think of when i recall the "good old days". I fell in love with my wife on that river, and found peace on every trip.

Those special interests have no idea what they killed in the name of progress.


----------



## eddy hopper (Sep 17, 2007)

Schutzie said:


> What was it like, rafting Dolores before McPhee?
> 
> 
> Dolores is what I most fondly think of when i recall the "good old days". I fell in love with my wife on that river, and found peace on every trip.


I really liked seeing all the home made frames and dry boxes. Seemed like those rough necks always showed with smiles, whisky, and stories. And peace and love flowed as high as the river did.

Good old days for sure!


----------



## richierivertrip (Jul 28, 2008)

Back in 95 the Dolores was runnable until mid July. Ran it 5 times that year. In 97 ran it 3 times. Great river, probably wont get to do it again. Very different from beginning to end. Starts in ponderosa pine and ends up in a 30 mile slickrock canyon.


----------



## denali1322 (Jun 3, 2013)

RIP indeed. All of Colorado flowing at epic levels and the Slickrock canyon area - 100 CFS. Before I realized this was likely never going to flow again, I even bought a map to contemplate multi-days. What a waste. I envy those of you that were able to run this.


----------



## eddy hopper (Sep 17, 2007)

They were good days indeed. If the dam were never built you know there'd be a permit system and as short as that season is/was the permits would not be easy gettings given todays volume of boaters. But I hate how we can go years and years with no spill. It was a good one. RIP My river of sorrows.


----------



## Beardance42 (May 12, 2008)

richierivertrip said:


> Back in 95 the Dolores was runnable until mid July. Ran it 5 times that year. In 97 ran it 3 times. Great river, probably wont get to do it again. Very different from beginning to end. Starts in ponderosa pine and ends up in a 30 mile slickrock canyon.


I did the Slickrock-Bedrock reach that year, in my (very leaky) first boat. Beautiful and fun float.


----------



## boatingbuss (May 22, 2008)

I have run both sections above Gateway, very special. I was hoping with all the rain they might let the water flow. I did go run the Gateway to Dewy Bridge on the Colorado last weekend and only saw one other group. Very fun, great hiking.....other than state line it was really strait forward.
Enjoy the footage! (if it works)


----------



## dbarrett (Mar 8, 2013)

For those who are unaware - the lower Dolores (from the San Miguel confluence to the confluence with the Colorado) has been running for weeks, and is currently over 1700cfs and forecast to stay above 1000cfs for a while.

McPhee reservoir is expected to come within a few feet of spilling in the next few weeks. While I doubt this will motivate them to release any water, it does bode well for next year though, if it's an above-average winter.










(spillway elevation is 6924 ft)


----------



## CoBoater (Jan 27, 2007)

they kill a river for alfalfa. thats messed up. aint the government paying farmers not to grow alfalfa back east?


----------

