# Lower Blue "put in" stairs!



## Scottsfire (Aug 8, 2008)

Was curious if anyone has heard of Lower Blue "Put In" getting some stairs? Heard rumor but don't know how reliable the integrity of this was.
Karen Lamb with Denver Water might know?? 
The put in is a class 5 on a class 3 river, and while I have safely navigated the "hill" many times, it sure would be nice to get some railroad ties and gravel stairs down to the water. They could be put in the main errosion area and prevent any future erosion from endless foot traffic sliding down that thing.
Hope the rumor is true!
Scotty


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## slavetotheflyrod (Sep 2, 2009)

Be careful what you wish for. 

With ammeneties like the "stairs" you describe, usually come fees to pay for the construction and maintenance of those ammeneties. 

Besides that, I kind of like it the way it is - seems to deter some of the amatuers.


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## SummitSurfer (Jun 23, 2010)

I agree with you Slave! If you survive the put in you have earned the right to run it. ha ha!

Scotty: when we boating together again? Last outting was crazy but fun....see ya out there.


****


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## CO14 (Nov 12, 2003)

There are stairs there already-have been for years. You can only use them with a kayak though. From the parking lot head towards the chain link fence. Follow the fence around to the stairs. Take the stairs to the river. Just so you know it is probably a class IV traverse on the outside of the fence.


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## Ole Rivers (Jul 7, 2005)

*20 Yards and a Cloud of Dust!*



Scottsfire said:


> Was curious if anyone has heard of Lower Blue "Put In" getting some stairs? Heard rumor but don't know how reliable the integrity of this was.
> Karen Lamb with Denver Water might know??
> The put in is a class 5 on a class 3 river, and while I have safely navigated the "hill" many times, it sure would be nice to get some railroad ties and gravel stairs down to the water. They could be put in the main errosion area and prevent any future erosion from endless foot traffic sliding down that thing.
> Hope the rumor is true!
> Scotty


These 8/09 pics show the class level...

I've talked to Kara, USFS, etc about this concerning the overall Lower Blue Management Plan. Cost, permitting, construction standards, safety, land ownership, stakeholder decision representation, BLM Resource Management Plan completion, etc are all factors of what or what does not go where. It's a question as to who owns the land where the put in actually sits. The land boundary survey and maps would need to be looked at. The boundary between Bureau of Rec and USFS is either at the top of the ridge at the parking lot or down the ridge to where the old camp fireplace/cleared vegetation area line is located. I've looked at the Summit County Assessor maps and it's not clear where that line is. Go to their website to check it out yourselves.

As for cost, well, BLM Kremmling told me the Gore/Blue/Colorado put in stairs ramp cost $160k. Yes, they told me $160,000. They have standards, don't you know... That's BLM, tho. The cost would be to BoR or USFS and it seems that a ramp could easily be built for way less than that and still be within design standards. Whether either would want fees to get the money back is an issue that would be brought up in the LBMP discussions.

The LBMP, according to what I've talked to USFS, BLM, BVR, etc in past meetings and contact, comes after the BLM Resource Management Plan is completed and maybe the Wild and Scenic designation process. The BLM RMP has been delayed for a couple years now and God knows when it will be presented for public comment.

Permitting to recoup $$$ for the ramp, use, footbridges, modifications, etc would likely be discussed at the LBMP meetings, individual stakeholders and BoR, USFS, etc

Another way to resolve the issue is to contact Kara/BLM and/or USFS Dillon Ranger Station in Silverthorne yourselves before the LBMP meetings start back up, whenever that may be. The put in is only getting more eroded and dangerous. Sooner or later, someone's going to break an ankle or get their hand caught in the rope or winch set up or more.

While I'm writing... I'd like to see a cost effective footbridge, like there are in other parts of Colorado, US and New Zealand, for the wade anglers at the high side of the put in, out of the way of putting in, or in another strategically located place, to safely and evenly distribute people to the far shore to get all that "new" fishing water and link up with the lower canyon access if/when the BVR/BLM land exchange takes place, again, after the BLM RMP is completed, and another footbridge at the lower end of the canyon to just about complete a both sides loop to safely distribute waders.


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## chepora (Feb 6, 2008)

I would love stairs and if this happens I will definitely volunteer to help!


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## Swank (Jun 20, 2009)

This summer we lowered a 14' raft and 16' cat down there by belaying the boat and using the concrete culvert with re-bar as a strong safe anchor. The walk down kinda sucks but I would only recommend lowering a boat using that method. To us the put in was cake considering how shitty the take out was.


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## SummitSurfer (Jun 23, 2010)

Ole Rivers:
Thansks for the great write up on this!
****


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## loosecannon (Jul 20, 2009)

yes, the takeout is way worse. It's hard to get a full rig up that eroded hill with just two guys.


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## Brotorboat (Apr 14, 2009)

There are WAY better takeouts just a little ways down river...

However, you could end up being "skeeter raped"...as Slave would say...


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## Fallingup (Feb 27, 2010)

It is easier for kayakers than rafters. Stairs would be great of course... but I agree that the steep put in works great for crowd control.

The Lower Blue is a hidden gem, and I would hate to see it turned into an Upper C scene.


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## jimr (Sep 8, 2007)

Leave the lower blue the way it is, if your not man enough to get down there then you shouldn't be allowed down. Last tailwater gem in CO. Leave her alone.


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## slavetotheflyrod (Sep 2, 2009)

jimr said:


> Leave the lower blue the way it is, if your not man enough to get down there then you shouldn't be allowed down. Last tailwater gem in CO. Leave her alone.


Amen!

And B.T.W. - Nice action sequence Ole Rivers. 

I can't tell you how many mishaps I've witnessed over the years involving broken ropes and such.


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## Deez Nuuuutz (Aug 25, 2009)

Leave it as is! keep it real - there is enough concrete in the area


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## Ole Rivers (Jul 7, 2005)

Deez Nuuuutz said:


> Leave it as is! keep it real - there is enough concrete in the area


*
BOAT SLIDE PUT-IN IMPROVEMENT (for boaters' interests in the Canyon section):*
Colorado Whitewater supports improving the put-in as stated in March, 2008 Summit County Government - Colorado --> Compilation of Public Comments Received as of April 15, 2008 http://co.summit.co.us/Documents4Review/lower_blue/Comments ToDate.pdf *Comment #14 *:

*"Colorado Whitewater maintains the position that the best way to improve the river experience for kayakers is to improve the put-in at the Green Mountain dam..."*

and in *Comment #15*:

*Section 2.8: "...since at least 2000, CW has volunteered to work on improving the put-in."*


*FOOTBRIDGE IMPROVEMENT (for wading anglers' interests in the Canyon section):*
My *Comment #13* and *Comment #16* supports footbridge AND boat slide improvements plus limited width/location path easements in the Canyon section:

*"1/9 - Comment: All Win.
Green Mountain Canyon area strategically located and environmentally sensitive improvements, such as evenly, safely and legally distributed footbridges, boat slides with steps and walking, limited width/location path easements, provide access for Public Quiet Recreationist Users and protect Private Landowner/Recreationist Users in ways that increase, or create, self reliant experiential freedom and reduce, or eliminate, the need for restrictions, regulations and permits throughout the Green Mountain Canyon and Lower Blue River Corridor to the benefit of all."*


*What You Can Do:*

Read all comments and other documents however, especially, read CW's Comments 14 and 15 plus my Comments 13 and 16.

Individually, and/or groupwise, contact the main people at USFS Dillon (Silverthorne), BLM Kremmling, DPW Hot Sulphur Springs, BVR (yes, BVR, they're stakeholders too), Shadow Creek Ranch, Blue Valley Estates HOA President, Colorado Whitewater, American Whitewater, yours truly by email and all other stakeholders to let them know you want to resurrect the discussions and keep you informed of the progress, meeting dates, etc.

Continue following up until the boat gets on the water.

Keep in mind that BLM is probably highly involved now with their new Resource Management Plan and that Memorandums of Understanding are in process for the "Citizens for Conservation of the Lower Blue" group that has been formed since around 2009 to do the plan, but keep on them anyway to get things started if you're so inclined and interested.


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## CROE (Jul 29, 2008)

Sorry, I have not searched old threads........I don't know the details of the take out, any info? ....also with the current state of the landowners and the limited public land along the way, what is the status of the land swaps (which sounds like will screw us for any rest spots along the river?!)possibly pending? thanks, Chet


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## Ole Rivers (Jul 7, 2005)

*Erosion*

There is no keeping it the way the put in slope has been or is now... the pics below show the erosion in 2007, 2009 and 2011. Without some or a lot of improvements, the slope may continue to erode from each of many more boats scraping the dirt and rocks down and get steeper and worse, not better, in another 4 years with deeper gullies and more exposed rocks til the rocks get dislodged and worsen over time until maybe it gets so steep, rocky and/or gullied that noone can get their boat down.

And then there's the mudhole. I've got pics then and now of that, too. Yes, it's deeper now than before and likely to get deeper rather than shallower when even 4 wheelers get bottomed out.

Now that the BLM Kremmling Resource Management Draft Plan is out and taking public comments (since around Sept 16, 2011 and for another 65 days or so), maybe it's time to begin putting the stakeholders of the canyon and valley sections of the Lower Blue Corridor together in anticipation of a Final RMP to discuss and come up with a plan to manage the put in and other issues of the Corridor so that there is a comprehensive All Win solution.


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## slavetotheflyrod (Sep 2, 2009)

Hey Ole Rivers - has something new shaken loose? Last I'd heard the whole mgt plan had pretty much died on the vine. 

Once upon a time I made about a million phone calls and emails basically offering to donate the lumber and materials needed to make some of the suggested improvements. I'll make a long story short - trying to donate tens of thousands of dollars in lumber in labor was a giant fucking waste of my time. No one at any level had any interest whatsoever in anything to do with any kind of improvements to the resource even if it didn't cost their organization a dime and they didn't have to lift a finger. I got a bit frustrated and said to a few folks "well fuck it then, hows about I just make it happen?" "Well, then we'd just have to go down there and remove all of that, and you could potentially be on the hook for the costs associated." "So let me understand this right, you guys won't spend a dime or lift a finger to improve a resource that's in need of a little TLC, but you will spend the time and effort to un-do those same improvements if some anonymous benefactor should see fit to make them happen on their own dime and own dime?" "Yep"


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## Ole Rivers (Jul 7, 2005)

slavetotheflyrod said:


> Hey Ole Rivers - has something new shaken loose? Last I'd heard the whole mgt plan had pretty much died on the vine.
> 
> Once upon a time I made about a million phone calls and emails basically offering to donate the lumber and materials needed to make some of the suggested improvements. I'll make a long story short - trying to donate tens of thousands of dollars in lumber in labor was a giant fucking waste of my time. No one at any level had any interest whatsoever in anything to do with any kind of improvements to the resource even if it didn't cost their organization a dime and they didn't have to lift a finger. I got a bit frustrated and said to a few folks "well fuck it then, hows about I just make it happen?" "Well, then we'd just have to go down there and remove all of that, and you could potentially be on the hook for the costs associated." "So let me understand this right, you guys won't spend a dime or lift a finger to improve a resource that's in need of a little TLC, but you will spend the time and effort to un-do those same improvements if some anonymous benefactor should see fit to make them happen on their own dime and own dime?" "Yep"


Well, it hasn't died, it's kinda in limbo. The way I understand it, the RMP gets done, then maaayyyybbee it gets started again. More phone calls need to be made to, say, BLM, USFS, etc, by us public interest type folk to stay in the loop for when it does. The RMP will take another 6 months or so to go through the process and i'm thinking the mgt plan should be anticipated concurrently with it. btw, there's two RMP's going on now, Kremmling and Glenwood or Silt or something like that.

With the RMP's in process, it's now time to slide back into things to have a say.

BLM Colorado | Kremmling Draft RMP

As for the improvements, everything has to go through the hoops so that's why whoever you talked to (USFS?) said what they said.


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## lmyers (Jun 10, 2008)

I know this is difficult to do for rafts, but kayakers should think of using one of the other trails down (to help slow the erosion). There are 2 other trails that are just as good or better upstream, near the edge of the chain-link-fence (plus you get another rapid)...


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## Fallingup (Feb 27, 2010)

If a few volunteers wanted to come out and fill in the pot hole at the top that would be helpful for raft use. 

I agree: if youre not man enough to get your boat down, you shouldnt be there. I have always carried my own kayak each time I have ran it except for this last time when a nice couple of guys did it for me while we ran shuttle. 

However, after lugging my boat down to the gunny gorge, the lower blue is a piece of cake.


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## Nessy (May 25, 2009)

*too steep*



lmyers said:


> I know this is difficult to do for rafts, but kayakers should think of using one of the other trails down (to help slow the erosion). There are 2 other trails that are just as good or better upstream, near the edge of the chain-link-fence (plus you get another rapid)...


I wish I would've known about these "other trails" before ripping the ass out of my pants two weeks ago. Has anyone thought of putting up a sign with arrows?


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