# Gear ripped off in Browns Canyon



## Randaddy (Jun 8, 2007)

So you left the shit there for 3 weeks?


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## UserName (Sep 7, 2007)

Maybe it got towed


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## Randaddy (Jun 8, 2007)

Dude's name is Lucky. That's like being named Princess Die....

Just kidding man, I hate when people take what isn't theirs.


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## lmyers (Jun 10, 2008)

If you are a photographer at Zoom then you know how many people use that stretch, even in the off season. NOT saying whoever took it was right in doing so, karma will come back to them eventually. But, 3 weeks? If I left anything on public lands for 3 weeks, I wouldn't have too high of expectations for it to still be there.
Good luck.


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## luckyluke (Aug 27, 2004)

Maybe 3 weeks is too long, but it was there for 4 months since May 1. It is an obvious stash with other gear. 

I see it as flat out rude to take it.


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## Snowhere (Feb 21, 2008)

That sucks Luke. Time to get as giant hollow rock to stash your gear in! I hate leaving anything alone when I run shuttle, even here in BV. It's the easterner in me that is used to people taking anything that is not nailed down! Hell, I was sketched the one time I left my raft and gear at the play park when we ran to get the truck back at Numbers put in this spring. 

Just a thought, check with AHRA just in case they picked it up. I doubt it, as I would expect them to pick up the other stuff too, but stranger things have happened!


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## lmyers (Jun 10, 2008)

Snowhere said:


> Just a thought, check with AHRA just in case they picked it up. I doubt it, as I would expect them to pick up the other stuff too, but stranger things have happened!


Good idea. Someone else might have picked it up and turned it in as well. Check this thread for their contact info: http://www.mountainbuzz.com/forums/...ar-on-arkansas-ahra-l-and-f-number-25733.html


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## luckyluke (Aug 27, 2004)

Thanks for the advice, I logged it with Heather today. Nothing turned in since Aug 9th.


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## ec (Jun 7, 2004)

Just like I teach my kid...take good care of your stuff, otherwise you won't have stuff! I would never leave anything like that and expect it to be there when I wanted it back. Too many goons with the finders-keepers mentality out there.


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## Ture (Apr 12, 2004)

ec said:


> Just like I teach my kid...take good care of your stuff, otherwise you won't have stuff! I would never leave anything like that and expect it to be there when I wanted it back. Too many goons with the finders-keepers mentality out there.


Same here. I would fully expect for that stuff to be stolen. I am very suprised it didn't happen earlier.

When my car is parked for shuttle NOTHING is visible in the car. Junk is in the trunk and valuables are in a dry box/bag in the stern of my kayak with me on the river.

I have lowjack in my car.

I never leave my gear at the takeout when I run shuttle unless someone sits with the gear. I always use a cable lock on my boat when it is parked at work.

I lock my car when I get out to road scout something that is 100 feet away from my parked car.

I never leave my garage door open, I never leave my gear in my front yard or in my driveway, my garage door is always locked.

Almost every single stolen item post I see is from someone who doesn't do these things.

You cannot enable thieves. It just encourages them. I hate thieves. The only thing I can do about it is to not give them candy like that.


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## ritatheraft (May 22, 2007)

"this is why you don't have nice things" it sure would be convenient to leave your skis at the bottom of the hill so you didn't have to carry them from the car... but... would you?


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## caseybailey (Mar 11, 2008)

Maybe I misread your post. Did you want info on your missing stuff, or did you want people to preach to you about leaving your stuff around. Please clarify.


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## luckyluke (Aug 27, 2004)

Yup, I am a naive jackass. I paddle an All Star with over 20 pounds of gear for taking photos, I recently got a Speeder so now I can take everything including the Deep Cycle battery and solar panel.
I tell my kids to not leave their shit around, blah blah blah. The point was intended to be - I tucked my gear away tightly between rocks in a spot that is rarely accessed, and it got ripped off. I'm not a thief and don't expect the boating community that boats Browns at 240 CFS to be thieves either, maybe the summer Joey but late season low water boaters I don't expect this.

You are all right - shame on me and I should quit crying. But really? come on, why you gotta go stealing someone's stash? 

Weak, loser, and just plain rude will be my opinion until someone can offer a good reason why it is MIA.


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## Porkchop (Sep 19, 2007)

Maybe you know it alls who never leave anything around cause yur so damn smart can teach yur kids not to mess w/ shit that aint theirs. If you take some ones stuff even if aint locked down yur a thief! wut goes around comes around


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## stumpster (Jul 23, 2006)

if you come upon a stash of gear and think it is fair game...you know its not yours so leave it be and quit being a thief and trying to justify it. we all love the river and should have respect for it and each other.

ps all you guys contradicting and justifying must have a thief mentality to begin with


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## sarahkonamojo (May 20, 2004)

Bummer you lost your stuff. Kind of puts the pale on the river community. An added bummer because now you have to carry all that gear with you on a daily basis. Or maybe buy cheaper stuff and don't sweat it.


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## caverdan (Aug 27, 2004)

Fu...'n thieves........they all need to be sodomized till snot runs out their noses.

On another note.......it could be fisherman or someone other than a boater in the canyon during these low water months.......till you find out who....it's hard to put the blame on one group.


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## Randaddy (Jun 8, 2007)

I bet it was a fisherman. Those guys are worse than terrorists.


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## relikpaul (Feb 20, 2008)

Porkchop said:


> Maybe you know it alls who never leave anything around cause yur so damn smart can teach yur kids not to mess w/ shit that aint theirs. If you take some ones stuff even if aint locked down yur a thief! wut goes around comes around


I dont lock anything up, my front door isn't lock , my truck isn't locked, camper shell isn't locked. 

If its not yours, don't take it!


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## gannon_w (Jun 27, 2006)

I kind of don't get it...Why would you leave valuables on the side of the river?


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## stumpster (Jul 23, 2006)

Again, If you don't get it you don't belong on the river! If its stashed and not just randomly floating down river leave it be!

Its that thief mentality that makes it hard to understand!


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## Theophilus (Mar 11, 2008)

Maybe I missed it up thread but was your name and phone number written on your dry bag? Maybe a note inside the bag explaining why it's there would be helpful. This time of year if somebody came upon it they might think you forgot it or lost it or...? A good Samaritan might haul it out and call you thinking they are doing you a good turn.


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## rippnskier (Jun 4, 2006)

Fuck all these pricks Luke. I look at it as East Coast mentality. Sorry if that is harsh, But have these people ever heard of Karma? It would be like me driving down the highway, seeing a large tractor on the side of the highway. Just sitting there. And taking it. Its obvious the highway company is using it for there work. You people need to understand this is Luke's "work" that is sitting there. Luke, Thanks for all the hard work over all the years. My customers have loved it, hang in there. Maybe put a jar in CKS, I'll bet the community of guides would help you with the replacement costs. I know if I were in BV now, i would. See ya next summer.


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## gannon_w (Jun 27, 2006)

Coming from Houston where your seat your currently sitting in gets stolen if its not locked to your ass....I never leave anything out stashed or not...I made the mistake of actually trusting people and using the changing area at the golden playpark while my gear was "stashed" / sitting in the back of my truck in an unlocked camper my 1st season....2-min of changing and 1 helmut, 1 skirt, and 1 PFD gone!

Does remind me of a story where my neighbor was mowing his yard while I was sitting outside not looking in his direction...he lived on the corner I was 2 houses down...He stopped mowing to get a glass of lemonade came out not 5min later and his mower...Gone! It was a riding lawn mower at like 11am. We figured someone just stopped by with their truck, walked into the yard, and pushed the mower into the back of the truck cause I never heard it started??

So I would never expect to leave something on the bank and find it later.


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## ec (Jun 7, 2004)

stumpster said:


> ....must have a thief mentality to begin with


I think it's more like we have already been "victims of a thief's mentality", and we're not going to lose anymore property due to our own poor judgement. Since we can't control the thief's actions, what can we do? 

Well, we can make it harder for them to get our gear. I think Ture is dead on in his approach.

Unfortunately, I do not think it is an East Coast mentality. Obviously not, case in point, this stuff happens everywhere...even in Browns Canyon (yes there are tweakers in BV too).


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## JDHOG72 (Jul 18, 2007)

How about don't leave your shit next to the river! The world is not your trash can/storage shed! If everyone left their stuff next to the river it would start looking like the land fill or any river/road in a third world country. Sorry you lost your stuff but maybe it will teach you not to litter.


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## Chief Niwot (Oct 13, 2003)

I have been reading this thread. If I find gear that obviosuly has been left behind, I beleive there is no problem in retrieving it and trying to return it to the owner. 

My question is did Luckyluke have his name and phone number on the gear? If not, when does something found on the river become stealing versus salvageable river booty?

Earlier this year, we were at the Poudre park take out. Some guys came up and forgot some stuff, no name, etc. We saw them leave, we hung out for quite along time, and before leaving, we found their stuff and figured it was theirs. I picked it up because you knew someone was going to take it. My intentions from the get go was to return the stuff to the owner.

There was no name the gear or I would haved called him right away to return it to him, the right thing to do and good karma. So I posted it on the buzz to find the owner and Royaldouchebag (funny buzz name) contacted me as it was his stuff. He was glad I had it and I was glad to get it to him. So to not pick up found gear is not always the right answer because the next person who might have found it may not have had the same intentions of returning it. 

To me, if gear is found and there is no name on it and you make an honest attempt to return it with no contact from the owner, I would consider it found river booty. Hopefully, for Luckyluke, someone makes a lost and found post or reads this post so he gets his stuff back.


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## cadster (May 1, 2005)

This reflects a "Leave No Trace" ethic that applies to wilderness. Thinking of Browns Canyon as a wilderness is probably a stretch for a lot of folks.

This issue has been brought up for stashes left in the Black Canyon, too, which should be easier for the majority to see as wilderness.

If I'm in a place to enjoy nature, I'd consider gear or trash left behind in an obvious place obnoxious and remove it.



JDHOG72 said:


> How about don't leave your shit next to the river! The world is not your trash can/storage shed! If everyone left their stuff next to the river it would start looking like the land fill or any river/road in a third world country. Sorry you lost your stuff but maybe it will teach you not to litter.


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## randomnature (Jun 10, 2007)

*Hatin'*

Don't rip on the East Coast or people from there, ripnskier.


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## dograft83 (Jun 16, 2008)

If you leave stuff out for 3 months then I can see that it could turn up missing very easy. I feel bad for you that you had your stuff jacked but like its been said befor did you have your info any were on the bag or gear in side? Was it on the side or would someone really have to be looking for it? 
rippnskier all anyone is saying is you leave shit out it will turn up missing. I know this cause the stuff that I have left out for anyone to come across I dont have anymore! I lock my stuff up or I will cover a stash up with what ever I have around. Dig put rocks over sticks what ever just so animals and people cant mess with it. I dont think anyone here is a theif or at least thats what I want to beleave. Good luck getting your gear back


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## luckyluke (Aug 27, 2004)

The watershed bag was one discontinued in 2000. It is a black tube like a Bills Bag but with the zip closure, I got it soon after Watershed took over Man of rubber. The bag is labeled inside with my name and number, but the black gucci fleece lined shell is not labeled. The Helly pants are size small and have one of my business cards inside the pockets. The dirty socks in the bag each are not labeled nor the shoes etc. 
Let me clarify - this gear was stowed behind rocks and tucked under brush, it would be hard to mistake for trash. It was not just laid out on a rock for Joey to see and take. The 5 raft paddles were also stashed - we use them as tent poles. The Nalgene bottles were still there, as were the solar panel and the deep cycle battery. Like I said before even the lucky beer was still there. Some of the gear is labeled with a Whitewaterphotography.com sticker, I am hard pressed to think that someone thought they came across random "river booty" or trash.
Again, I am not looking for lectures on irresponsibility and "Leave No Trace" AHRA does plenty of that to me. I am looking for the gear, if no gear then at least a reasonable explanation of why someone had to take it.

What throws me is that someone had to take a raft to haul all of this crap out, how many rafts float browns from Sept 8 to the 28th when it flows from 240 - 350. It seems that either someone randomly was scouting and found a small trace - like a paddle T grip, or knew what to look for and where to look.
I am open minded, it could have been Anglers, or even a random 4 wheeler, but why take the paddles?


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## jeffb (Apr 14, 2008)

I read these posts infrequently, but when I do, I always try to take an unbiased view. What I don't quite get on this one is why it is even okay for you to stash all your gear on the riverside -- especially for commercial purposes. It is a bummer to lose it all -- but talk about river karma.


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## SqEarly (May 3, 2009)

*Private Stash on Public Property*

Dear Not-so-Lucky, 

Thanks for the hard work taking our pictures all summer!:?


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## lmyers (Jun 10, 2008)

luckyluke said:


> What throws me is that someone had to take a raft to haul all of this crap out, how many rafts float browns from Sept 8 to the 28th when it flows from 240 - 350. It seems that either someone randomly was scouting and found a small trace - like a paddle T grip, or knew what to look for and where to look.
> I am open minded, it could have been Anglers, or even a random 4 wheeler, but why take the paddles?


At this point what I figure is that it was probably some "out-of-towner" who doesn't use mountainbuzz, and wouldn't be that familiar with Brown's. 
Any local that came across it would have left it, or called to return it.
A "visitor" who was familiar with the canyon would know that you guys take pictures there, and should call if they took it or post a "found gear" thread.
Only someone who wasn't from the area, and doesn't have the river community mentality, would have taken it...and if that is the case you probably won't get it back.
Eventually river karma will come back to them...in the mean time keep snapping awesome pictures of me surfing zoom. sorry


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## stumpster (Jul 23, 2006)

> I read these posts infrequently, but when I do, I always try to take an unbiased view. What I don't quite get on this one is why it is even okay for you to stash all your gear on the riverside -- especially for commercial purposes. It is a bummer to lose it all -- but talk about river karma.


Get a life!


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## Rhodes (Nov 22, 2003)

rippnskier said:


> Fuck all these pricks Luke. I look at it as East Coast mentality.


East coast mentality would not have allowed you to get in this situation in the first place.


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## Canada (Oct 24, 2006)

*Private Property*

Is this private property?

Maybe the property owner or their kids?


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## fdworak (Feb 18, 2008)

If you thought leaving stuff along the river was so safe why did you bother taking your camera and other gear with you? Ever wonder why they have safes in banks?


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## Porkchop (Sep 19, 2007)

ya see folks out here in the wild west we are really busy haven fun. boatn, bikn, hikn, drinkn, campn, and basically just enjoy the shit out of gods creation. we don't always have time to pack our gear just so in our fancy racks on our fancy suvs. sometime we stash our our boats we while we run shuttle, leave stuff out in our yards, doors unlocked... AND MOST OF THE TIME WE DO JUST FINE. every once in a while some dippy do comes by and ganks our stuff and your gonna tell me its my fault? I think I make a choice to believe that i live in a world where people are good. maybe thats my problem? Ignorance is bliss!


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## ranchman44 (Apr 16, 2009)

hay Luke sorry aabout your loss. We were out there in the end of july and thought your photo's rocked . Look forward to seeing you next season


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## randomnature (Jun 10, 2007)

Thinking we need snow really bad if we get up to 5 pages chastising someone for losing gear and chastising the chastisers.


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## SqEarly (May 3, 2009)

May Jesus bring snow and return all of our stolen belongings!


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## crackeryaker (Oct 15, 2003)

Some of the attitudes displayed by people on here does surprise me. 

I left a watershed duffel with pulleys, prussic, webbing ect. and it was gone in less than 24 hours at a spot only accessed by boaters. While the finders keepers mentality is nothing new, it has always felt better to me to put forth a little effort to get property back to the rightful owner.


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## ritatheraft (May 22, 2007)

After all the shit that goes down in Browns Canyon and is talked about on this forum: Moms with guns, class 5 boaters not assisting tourist swimmers, guides not following the rules... whatever, all you people who don't lock your doors or keep an eye on your own gear think that is smart? Sorry people. The folks on this forum are not the ones stealing your gear. But I still lock my car door at the put in and take out because it sucks to be the one missing expensive gear. we all participate in expensive sports and it seems a little silly not to take the proper precautions. If you prefer to live with the door unlocked and your gear lying around, because people should be inherently decent... more power to you. I personally lock up my shit cause I can't afford new shit. 

Luke, sorry about your gear. Sorry if the responses were harsh.


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## sandbagger (Feb 1, 2006)

Porkchop said:


> ya see folks out here in the wild west we are really busy haven fun. boatn, bikn, hikn, drinkn, campn, and basically just enjoy the shit out of gods creation. we don't always have time to pack our gear just so in our fancy racks on our fancy suvs. sometime we stash our our boats we while we run shuttle, leave stuff out in our yards, doors unlocked... AND MOST OF THE TIME WE DO JUST FINE. every once in a while some dippy do comes by and ganks our stuff and your gonna tell me its my fault? I think I make a choice to believe that i live in a world where people are good. maybe thats my problem? Ignorance is bliss!


I definitely agree with this mentality, and practice it often. That said, I think the questions about whether his name was on it or not is reasonable. Some people may wonder if it was lost gear and take it, some people may not like the fact that the gear was left there and remove it. If there was clear identifying info it makes it harder for those with a more questionable moral compass to just take it, it would be much clearer to them that to do so would be stealing.

Last month while rafting westwater we came upon a few items left behind in a rock alcove, it looked like a "shrine" of sorts (a broken paddle, a few beers, maybe a candle). It seemed clear that it was intentionally left there, yet it seemed equally clear to us that it was basically "trash" and we should pack it out with us. I realize that this situation is different, but I'm pointing out that just because the OP thinks it's fine to leave his stuff there doesn't mean everyone does. Some people may remove it because they feel that is the right thing to do. If his name/contact info was clear, however, those people would not keep the gear.


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## Andy H. (Oct 13, 2003)

> Last month while rafting westwater we came upon a few items left behind in a rock alcove, it looked like a "shrine" of sorts (a broken paddle, a few beers, maybe a candle). It seemed clear that it was intentionally left there, yet it seemed equally clear to us that it was basically "trash" and we should pack it out with us.


You were quite correct in your assessment. What you came across and is indeed the location of a well-known shrine for many Westwater regulars. Its a place where over the years people traditionally leave little momentos to the River Gods after a safe run, and in many years past has even had a journal in which people would write poetry and songs they'd made up on the river, accounts of their trips, funny things, silly things, and beautiful descriptions of the spectacular sights and the everyday sights they've seen in the canyon we love. I've laughed and been warmed seeing entries by old friends, little trinkets and river booty left there, and left beers there or had a slug of whiskey while making a toast to the anonymous riverrunning brother who left some in a bottle there for others. A couple of days ago I passed by it and hoped to share this little piece of Canyon lore with someone special. It was a real disappointment to see that the Westwater Shrine was empty.

This is in a location only accessible by boaters, with a memorial to a drowned hunting party on the rock above it, a diversion and noisy water pump upstream of it, alfalfa fields across the river from it, power lines running nearby, and a concrete boat ramp, huge parking lot, and often a takeout zoo scene about 300 yards downstream of it. I've left things there in the past, "littered" if you want to call it that, and will confess my crime if you'd like to turn me in to the authorities. 

And please folks, get a grip on things. LuckyLuke floats down to his "office" and works at the same spot every day, sitting under his awning, shooting photos of every single boater that comes down Zoom Flume. He stashes some of the gear that's a hassle to cart in and out daily during the hundred and something days he's doing the seasonal gig, putting it in a place where it wouldn't be noticed unless someone lifted the bushes up and found it. No problem until after the season when he gets a little lazy for a few weeks and someone comes by and snags it, with either good or bad intention - we don't know. That's a not really a pristine spot, the blast rock riprap by the railroad track, but he's discrete about stashing it anyway, keeping it out of sight out of consideration and for the security offered by "out of sight, out of mind." And as for the question "what if everybody did it?" Welllll, I'd expect that at least half, maybe even all of, the photographers working Brown's Canyon DO leave a little stash of gear down there and somehow I've never heard any complaints about it before or felt bothered by it on the occasions I've floated by there when they're not working. Now the guy's trying to get his stuff back and he's cast as a pariah for desecrating the wild, or as a damn fool for leaving some valuables where someone can just hike or boat a few miles in during the off season, look under the bushes, and outright steal them. Bashing him sure is easy to do when you're sitting behind a computer with a mean-spirited attitude, a powerful sense of self-rightneousness, and an alias screen name.

I'm the kind of guy that's picked up litter and handed it back to the litterbug at risk of getting my ass kicked, been infuriated at billboards (litter on a stick) going up on favorite, pleasant stretches of road, has been practicing Leave No Trace ethics ever since I learned about the concept, usually gets to the takeout with a few algae covered water bottles or other river trash in my boat, scatters any left over firewood into the bushes around camp so someone has to look for it to find it, has worked for conservation all my life, packed out ashes and dismantled fire pits at campsites, makes sure the aluminum gets separated and goes into the recycling bin, and has been dismayed by the way the environment seems to have been put on a back burner by our society.

But good grief folks, have a little perspective about things like the Westwater Shrine, and have some compassion for a guy that works on the river and had his gear ripped off.

Next spring on my first Westy trip of the season, I think I'll put a journal back in the Shrine for the coming year. And just maybe I'll leave a can of Murphy's for some boater who comes by after me to enjoy at the takeout or on the trip back home. Please don't remove it or any of the other stuff you think is "trash" if you pass by there. It may be sacred to someone else.

SYOTR,

-AH

PS - Good luck getting your stuff back, Luke.


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## EZ (Feb 10, 2004)

Andy H. said:


> You were quite correct in your assessment. What you came across and is indeed the location of a well-known shrine for many Westwater regulars. Its a place where over the years people traditionally leave little momentos to the River Gods after a safe run, and in many years past has even had a journal in which people would write poetry and songs they'd made up on the river, accounts of their trips, funny things, silly things, and beautiful descriptions of the spectacular sights and the everyday sights they've seen in the canyon we love. I've laughed and been warmed seeing entries by old friends, little trinkets and river booty left there, and left beers there or had a slug of whiskey while making a toast to the anonymous riverrunning brother who left some in a bottle there for others. A couple of days ago I passed by it and hoped to share this little piece of Canyon lore with someone special. It was a real disappointment to see that the Westwater Shrine was empty.
> 
> This is in a location only accessible by boaters, with a memorial to a drowned hunting party on the rock above it, a diversion and noisy water pump upstream of it, alfalfa fields across the river from it, power lines running nearby, and a concrete boat ramp, huge parking lot, and often a takeout zoo scene about 300 yards downstream of it. I've left things there in the past, "littered" if you want to call it that, and will confess my crime if you'd like to turn me in to the authorities.
> 
> ...




Agreed.


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