# Float trip



## tBatt (May 18, 2020)

Where are you located and how far are you willing to travel?


----------



## Mn riverguy (Jun 17, 2021)

Located in MN. Open to any possibilities in the lower 48


----------



## Pinchecharlie (Jul 27, 2017)

Since you researched mt...yellowstone is roadside so scratch that. Big hole not a great candidate either. Flathead has a couple options for sure. M.f. would and is awesome but has a few logistical problems and would be a mission with solid class 3/4 skills. At least to run through bear wilderness. If it was me and I was doing montana I think I'd do north fork flathead. Even though it's not a whitewater trip it's a pretty trip with good camping and since your coming so far you could plan a two week trip and do a n.f. camp trip and m.f. day trips and do the park and do ice cream and bumper boats and tourist stuff. Be aware the n.f. gets boney up near Canada earlier and that's the prettiest part. So early July is better than late at least for water. If you wanted a strictly whitewater trip I'd think the lower salmon non permit section was best. I've unfortunately never done it though but it sounds fun. Me and my 15 yr old daughter did a 4 day n.f and did tandem ducky m f. Runs and Summitted a peak in the park and it's a highlight of my life. Beware though that montana is completely over run with tourists now and expect all that goes along with it.


----------



## Wallrat (Jan 19, 2021)

Do the Main Salmon in the fall, or in early April before the melt...It’s low elevation, so warmer. The permit is not difficult to get. October on the Main is a fine time.


----------



## Mn riverguy (Jun 17, 2021)

Thanks for responses guys! We are locked into summer months as all our kids are athletes and have track in the spring, Volleyball in the late summer and fall And basketball of some sort year around. The North Fork of the Flathead sounds like a great option. I’ve paddled enough River I could probably get down a 3/4 but we have one family with very little paddling under their belt so Bear Wilderness is not an option. When they agreed to go, I promised we’d all come home. My family did a Glacier trip 3 years ago and did the touristy stuff, did a few hikes and did a half day white water trip. Kinda what made my daughter want to do this trip. That trip also made me aware of how over run that area gets with tourists and made me appreciate the need of these permits nobody Likes to have to try to draw. Do either of you have any experience with the Salmon above Corn Creek, where no permit is required? Pichecharlie, It’s awesome your daughter wants to do those things with you! Both blessed. In that area! My daughter asked ME to do this trip. Her words were, ”Dad could we do a trip like the movie, River Wild, without the gauntlet or Kevin Bacon?” She talked 2 friends and their dads into going and I said I’d find the place.


----------



## John_in_Loveland (Jun 9, 2011)

Grande Ronde


----------



## Pinchecharlie (Jul 27, 2017)

Lots of info on the salmon online and here. I think it would be ideal. Warm and pool drop and free. I've heard it can be crowded and camps become harder but I've never heard anyone i actually know say anything other than it's really fun and a great big group camp float. Hopefully the guys who do it will chime in with real world advice. I want to but have been waiting on my little daughter to get a bit older . She's 7 and doesn't swim that well yet lol. I'd say that's your go ! I think there two rapids in there that are serious enough to scout or maybe have a little kid walk or help a new rower maybe shuttle their boat. Others will tell us I hope. My neighbors do it every summer and hoot and holler about it but their kids are older and they have a giant group. They love playing volleyball and doing big camp stuff. They have had swimmers but they also sent there 17 year old down on a s u.p. so can't be to terrifying? As allways do your due diligence and as allways over prepare for safety and I think they will love it. I have three daughters and they are kinda girlie but they allways wax nostalgia over our river trips and scary dad stuff. Gotta love em !!


----------



## tBatt (May 18, 2020)

John Day, Grande Ronde, Deschutes permits are easy to get although it can be really crowded, Lower Main Salmon, Flathead.

Even though they're generally class II-III rivers it's still important to have swiftwater and first aid training, especially if you're going to be TL.


----------



## Mn riverguy (Jun 17, 2021)

John Day and Grande Ronde are 2 Rivers I had not looked at. They look beautiful and seem to be just what we’re looking for. Long ways from home, but like I said, we would consider anything in the lower 48. Probably once in a lifetime trip, at least for our particular group all going together, so we want to do it right! The suggestion of the North Fork of the Flathead looks like a great option as well.


----------



## KlaustheK (Mar 20, 2021)

labyrinth canyon on the green in Utah, but it's a flat water trip. Super remote and no permits needed though.


----------



## okieboater (Oct 19, 2004)

Hopefully some one with detail knowledge will post more on the Salmon River above the Middle Fork and Main Salmon junction.

I have driven 93 Hwy from Challis down to North Fork store and then down to Corn Creek Access. Looks like a lot of good options for day floats or possible multi days. All look like easy class 1 or 2 floats. All my scouting was from the road. May well be some hidden rapids not viewable from the road.

Any one out there done floats on these sections?


----------



## Nanko (Oct 20, 2020)

I wouldn’t give up on Deso as it’s a great family trip. If you pick a launch range of a few days, there is a very high chance of a late cancellation. You can always do the Green down lower in Labyrinth/ Stillwater if the permit doesn’t materialize.


----------



## carvedog (May 11, 2005)

The Salmon from Salmon to Corn Creek is pretty awesome. We launched at Red Bluff I think about seven miles from Salmon. I nearly died of heatstroke with 108 temps in June. Good thing there's a river. I spent an hour in it one evening. But I don't do heat well. 
Of course cows ran thru the river in the first mile doing the pooping and pissing while they run gig. Big chunks of private property along both sides in places. One stretch has very little camping, but there are some islands too. We got lucky and had some great camps including one roadside. There are very few places where you away from the road but for the most part it wasn't a bother. With everyone and their dog thinking they need to camp who knows what the use scene there is. This trip was a few years ago.


----------



## carvedog (May 11, 2005)

After I posted the album I thought about and I did whole thread on it. A little more info and pics in order here. 









Mini Main Salmon - Red Rock to Corn Creek


So we put together a last minute trip with a couple of other families on the Main Salmon. We launched from Red Rock about 12 miles North of Salmon and took out at Corn Creek. It seems like that is about 56 or 57 miles and we took four days and three nights. We ran our own shuttle so day one...




www.mountainbuzz.com


----------



## raftwv201 (Jun 12, 2020)

Mn riverguy said:


> Located in MN. Open to any possibilities in the lower 48


I'll throw out the New River from Bluestone Dam to Cunard where the Gorge starts. After that you can do a guided trip in the gorge or on the Gauley.


----------



## Pinchecharlie (Jul 27, 2017)

Oh man...I'd love to do that!!!


----------



## Mn riverguy (Jun 17, 2021)

Thanks Carvedog! Looks like an awesome trip!! Is it normal to have that warm of daytime temps in the summer along the Salmon River, or did you hit an unusually hot week? I’m not a big fan of heat either. This was one of the sections I was specifically looking at as an option. Is there anything above Red Rock to squeeze an extra day out of the trip? Thanks for sharing the photos!


----------



## Mn riverguy (Jun 17, 2021)

raftwv201 said:


> I'll throw out the New River from Bluestone Dam to Cunard where the Gorge starts. After that you can do a guided trip in the gorge or on the Gauley.
> That looks like a fun trip! What do you recommend for time of the year? Do flows remain consistent?


----------



## Nanko (Oct 20, 2020)

Green ABC



https://www.flaminggorgeresort.com/media/uploads/files/Sections%20of%20Green%20River.pdf


----------



## Mn riverguy (Jun 17, 2021)

Nanko, Have you done Desolation Canyon? Looking at pics, that place looks amazing! Have any draw odds on that?


----------



## Pinchecharlie (Jul 27, 2017)

Draw odds are like the others . I think he and others pick up short notice cancellations. Would be a perfect trip (for any one!) Could be hot and buggy though?


----------



## Nanko (Oct 20, 2020)

I don’t think they publish odds but the BLM Price might have some numbers. I’d assume it’s one of the easier ones to win because sparse whitewater hot and bugs sometimes. Wife and I do this every year, never win. If you have a smart phone and a long drive you’ll usually have a permit by the time you get there. This strategy might not work forever especially with idiots like me blabbering on the internet about it.


----------



## tBatt (May 18, 2020)

Nanko said:


> If you have a smart phone and a long drive you’ll usually have a permit by the time you get there. This strategy might not work forever especially with idiots like me blabbering on the internet about it.


This might be a really good option that's not too far away if you don't pull a Deso. 



Nanko said:


> Green ABC
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.flaminggorgeresort.com/media/uploads/files/Sections%20of%20Green%20River.pdf


----------



## Pinchecharlie (Jul 27, 2017)

There's a Friday launch available lol!


----------



## Mn riverguy (Jun 17, 2021)

Pinchecharlie, when you did the NF Flathead trip where did you put in and take out?


----------



## Pinchecharlie (Jul 27, 2017)

There are a few options along the river . I've done from the border to blankenship and I've done from polebride to blankenship. Bad news is, this morning on the radio they said glaciers getting hammered by tourists and they are "restricting " traffic on the polebride rode. Dunno if that's just in the park or up the road to the border? You'd obviously need to call up there and and get beta from a vendor. We use glacier raft company for shuttle so they'd know all the details of flow snd access and delays but I think going to glaciers gonna suck this year . They said it's 20% up from 2019 and their closing stuff. Other concern up there is bears. It's a strict bear camp policy. There's more grizzly up there than anywhere and we've seen quite a few. Never in camp but allways on the trip. I dunno man I think salmon sounds pretty fun. Maybe further to drive but It may be easier if the access goes bad. We're allready on fire too fyi. It's not bad yet but we get so smokey sometimes you can't see the sun. We did polebride down in late July but I still say the borders the better float for scenery. You can do salmon till October I think.


----------



## raftwv201 (Jun 12, 2020)

Any time April to October is pretty consistent. There would have to be significant drought for it to not be runnable. It's great pretty much any time. There are state parks and the new national park all along the route so plenty of places to stop and hike around. 

Gauleyfest is in the fall





American Whitewater


The primary advocate for the preservation and protection of whitewater rivers throughout the United States and connects the interests of human-powered recreational river users with ecological and science-based data to achieve goals within our mission.




www.americanwhitewater.org





There's also bridge day, which is a pretty unique thing to see, even if you're not participating. 









Official Bridge Day 2023 Information — Bridge Day


Countdown to Bridge Day! Catch the BASE jumpers leaping 800+ feet into the New River Gorge below! Rappelling, skydiving, and more adventures abound. Bridge Day, one of the largest extreme sports event in the world, is held annually on the third Saturday in October in Fayette County, West Virginia (W




officialbridgeday.com







The park service has some decent maps.









Whitewater - Private Boater Information - New River Gorge National Park & Preserve (U.S. National Park Service)







www.nps.gov













New River Gorge Maps | NPMaps.com - just free maps, period.


Need a New River Gorge map? Here I've collected 16 free high-resolution New River Gorge National Park maps to view and download: roads, trails, and more!



npmaps.com


----------



## Mn riverguy (Jun 17, 2021)

Appreciate all the info. We’re looking at doing this in 2022, but that doesn’t mean all the things you mentioned won’t be the same next year too. We went to Glacier in 2018 and it was the same. They wouldn’t let us up the road from Pole Bridge, too many people and it was a 3 to 4 hour wait, all the visitor centers had signs out front saying parking lot full. After 3 days of driving the sun road and not finding a single parking spot to get out we cut our 10 day trip short and went home. We did do a half day raft trip out of West Glacier and we were camped at Avalanche campground, so we did hike from the camper up to Avalanche Lake for an afternoon. But all the things you’ve mentioned... I’ve actually experienced.


----------



## Mn riverguy (Jun 17, 2021)

RaftWV May be on to something with New River idea! I had always assumed we’d be headed west. But maybe East is the way the way to go!


----------



## raftwv201 (Jun 12, 2020)

Mn riverguy said:


> RaftWV May be on to something with New River idea! I had always assumed we’d be headed west. But maybe East is the way the way to go!


Depending on where you are in MN, it might not be too much farther than a lot of places out west and there's always water. Some other rivers in the area if they're running are the Cheat, Youghiogheny and Tygart. Lower Yough is dam controlled, so it's also pretty consistent.


----------



## Pinchecharlie (Jul 27, 2017)

You may loose a few doing the gauley though lol! I wanna do new river and gauley too but I wanna jump on a passing creature craft!!! Had friend years ago who guided those river say he thought west Virginia was the pretties place in the states? Anyway you slice it its far from Minnesota!! One last suggestion that's even more work but is on my do list. Kootenay river in b.c. from settlers Bridge down there's a 3/4 day class 2/3- section that looks heavenly. But it's about 9 hrs from us in bozeman so...


----------



## Pinchecharlie (Jul 27, 2017)

Cheese video but iam busy fixing busted plumbing so....sorry! P.s. plumbing sucks butthole


----------



## Mn riverguy (Jun 17, 2021)

I see all these ideas, I do a bunch of research on um and think, I wanna go there! Then, I wanna there! And there! And there! This post is going to fill out my vacation schedule for the next 10 years! LOL! I’m really warming up to the idea of the North Fork of the Flathead. Salmon River is a major contender as well. How about the Clark Fork above Alberton Gorge?


----------



## Wallrat (Jan 19, 2021)

My first choice would be the Salmon. Hands down, no question. The NF Flathead is good, but in a totally different class. Plus, the Main Salmon is low enough to run even in late October. We’re starting this year on October 14.


----------



## Mn riverguy (Jun 17, 2021)

Wallrat, Totally different class in what way? Scenery? Flow? Less people?


----------



## Wallrat (Jan 19, 2021)

Mn riverguy said:


> Wallrat, Totally different class in what way? Scenery? Flow? Less people?


Magnificence. Nobody runs multi day trips on the NF. The Flathead is just a neat local float. The Salmon is bigger water, no roads, awesome views, in later fall, there’s very few people. There’s better rapids on the Main too. There’s really not much comparison.


----------



## Pinchecharlie (Jul 27, 2017)

He's right in most respects can't argue most of that. The only thing I'd disagree with is it's multi day as you want it and it's a scenery trip. No other river affords views of glacier Park like the upper stretch and maybe wild life. With that said whitewater guys don't wanna do flat water. And...he has a bad habit of under valuing whitewater! So easy for some guys is sometimes pretty juicy!. So main and middle salmon are at minimum for experienced rowers! Salmon would be my pick as far as a destination trip. Montanas rivers are all pretty roadside. I've thought about a multi day clark fork but never really researched it. Definitely doable . I'd say do two easy days through the gorge and a easy couple after? It's road side but may not be to loud.. one reason I allways say yellowstone can suck. Sometimes the road noise is awful at night especially past Livingston. That said our family groups doing a n.f. trip in July lol. Well do a day on m.f. too and maybe bummer boat and go karts. I like go karts...


----------



## ClC (Aug 27, 2020)

Mn riverguy said:


> Looking for a DIY 4 to 5 day raft trip in 2022 for a Dads, daughters (15 year olds) trip. 6 of us total. The more wilderness, or away from roads and towns, the better. We would be camping along the River and looking to keep the white water rating at class III or less. I have explored the possibilities of the Smith River, San Juan, Green, and Salmon but it looks like they all require tough to pull lottery permits, unless you hire a guide. We will put in for permits but looking for an alternative in case we don’t draw. I have done some research on the Yellowstone River, Jefferson, Big Hole, Flathead, Clark Fork, as well as the non permit area of the Salmon. Looking for GREAT mountain scenery, canyons a plus! Probably looking for 50 to 70 miles worth of River. Anybody have a River they would suggest or a particular section of one of the rivers I’ve mentioned that would meet our requirements?


Lower Salmon …Pine bar to Heller bar


----------



## TXwhitewater (Mar 15, 2014)

okieboater said:


> Hopefully some one with detail knowledge will post more on the Salmon River above the Middle Fork and Main Salmon junction.
> 
> I have driven 93 Hwy from Challis down to North Fork store and then down to Corn Creek Access. Looks like a lot of good options for day floats or possible multi days. All look like easy class 1 or 2 floats. All my scouting was from the road. May well be some hidden rapids not viewable from the road.
> 
> Any one out there done floats on these sections?


10 mile class III run from Spring Creek to Cove Creek is great fun! 2 class III's, several II's. This is @ 16 mi past N. Fork, as you are headed W along the river. We spent a couple days teaching newbies how to read water, practice on the oars, setting angles, dbl oar pivots, etc, above N. Fork on class II water, then spent rest of the time letting them learn on Spring Creek run. Not a wilderness run, road alongside, limited secluded camping. Better as day trips, then back to campsite, of which there are several.


----------



## morbald (Mar 10, 2014)

I would plus one for Deso. If you're willing to do a low water run (any time after early July), the bugs are usually not to bad after the first day, and historically there are cancellations that show up as soon as the water starts to drop.

You might look at a lower water run of cataract as well. I know it's more technical than you originally expressed interest in; however, it's not as hairy once the water drops, (still some solid class IV). It is hot as fire down there in the summer, but the water is pleasant and the scenery is amazing, and you can always get a permit (self issue online).


----------



## John_in_Loveland (Jun 9, 2011)

I did the Grande Ronde in 2020 for the first time and it was amazing. Its not long but you can stretch it out. My understanding is that is gets busy into July.


----------

