# Jefe or Pyranha 233?



## colopaddler (Dec 8, 2003)

I am in the market for a new creek boat and i am down to two boats the Jefe or the 233? I fit into both boats equally well in the store but since you really don't get a chance to demo a creek boat, i am looking for info from people who have paddled class 5 in both boats. I live in northern Colorado. thanks for any input you can give me such as tracking, resurface qualities, plastic strength, etc.


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## gh (Oct 13, 2003)

whats your weight?


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## Alberto (Sep 28, 2006)

*Go with the best!*

I have seen more of these two models broken than any other creek boat on the market. If you want a Creek boat that does everything you want (Tracking, resurfacing, and one the strongest plastics out there!) and is really really comfortable and safe..............Go with the 07' Nomad. That thing is pretty cherry! Good luck!


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## COUNT (Jul 5, 2005)

I haven't paddled the 233 but I really like the Jefe. It autoboofs and tracks really well, has good speed but is also maneuverable. The one thing I didn't like about the Jefe (last years) was the ridges on the top of hte deck kept water from filtering off the boat thus affecting the surfacing of the boat (I also had issues with that lip on the deck catching when I leaned into rocks) but it appears that they have fixed that with this year's model. Looks awesome. Note: I'm 5'1" and 130 and though the Jefe seems like it would be too big of a boat for me I loved it and had no issues with the size.

But yes, the Nomad does everything the Jefe does (and I think it tracks better). It's a sick boat, too.

COUNT


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## colopaddler (Dec 8, 2003)

*Jefe or 233*

I forgot to mention that i weigh 190 pounds and am 5-10 tall...I also heard that the Nomads were having a problem with cracking under the seat?


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## phlyingfish (Nov 15, 2006)

I was ineterested that you are considering a H3 233, but not the Burn. I can't see a reason, other than price, that would make anyone prefer an H3 over a Burn at this point. The Burn is a vast improvement based on the H3 platform. 

I've paddled the Jefe a bit, and the Medium Burn a lot. I am 5'6'' 155lbs. so I have to raise the seat and jack it forward to stay in control of most creek boats. I paddled both boats on Great Falls of the Potomac, which is a short class V section with technical moves and vertical drops in the 10 to 25 foot range. Right now I own a M Burn, and for me it is the best creeker out there. Both the Jefe and Burn have a lot of rocker, which makes for easy boofs, easy hole punching, and fast predictable resurfacing. But, in most respects the Jefe and Burn/H3 suit two different styles of paddling. The Burn is a driver, the Jefe is more of a floater.

The key difference (and this will be the same with the H3) is that the Burn has a pronounced edge and a planing hull. While it is not as hard or as low as a playboat's edge, you can definately feel the edge of the Burn working in the water. Some people hate this, I love it because it makes the boat handle like it is on rails, rails that you can direct wherever you want. On the other hand, the Jefe has a modified displacement hull which will give you softer landings when coming in flat. However, I felt the Jefe was nowhere near as nimble or easy to control as the Burn. Compared to the H3, the edge on the Burn is raised and does not extend as far back on the stern. I understand that this makes the Burn more forgiving than the H3. The Burn also has more bow and stern rocker than the H3, which helps it ride over holes and boof better. If your heart is set on the H3 go for it, but you should consider checking out the Burn because it is an updated (and in my opinion better) version of the same basic design.


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## rockinRio (Jul 3, 2006)

Older Nomads have the problem with wear under the seat, but I'm pretty sure they redesigned the whole seat for the 07 model (maybe even the 06). At any rate I have an 04 Nomad and it has been used, and it doesn't show any signs of over wear.


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## thedude1683 (May 1, 2005)

I paddle the Jefe. It is comfortable. Tracks extremely well... look at the stern hull shape for this.

It boofs like a champ with a lot of bow volume. It has good rocker so lands smooth and stays at the surface (or resurfaces very quickly).

It rolls very easily, but so do most boats.

Good storage space behind seat and under seat compartments for your secret stash of anything.


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## KSC (Oct 22, 2003)

I'm your man. I paddled the M3 233 and now the Jefe. I'm not super gnar Class V guy, but paddle some easier V. I like the Jefe much better, esp at your weight. I'm around 155 in clothes. At 190 I think you should be considering M3 243 not 233, if that's an option. Btw - I heard some say 243 actually handles much different than 233, so bear in mind my experience is with the small guy.

Brief analysis:
What M3 does better:
+ turns easy, very maneuverable
+ resurfaces really nice and predictable like
+ shorter, so easier to boof flat
+ rolls super easy
+ nice outfitting
+ snaps into eddies - great feeling

What Jefe does better:
+ FAST (I really like this feature)
+ holds a line really well - I don't think I really understood the concept of boat differences in holding a line until I starting boating w/ this thing and felt the difference compared to the M3
+ autoboofs - I find you have to boof harder to get it to land completely flat, but if you blow your boof, M3 will just dive deep, this thing will do some of the work for you
+ nicer outfitting - for me the extra leg room makes it much more comfortable and easier to eject. Easy stern access and much better volume for loading up gear. Seat is awesome,. I don't like the backband.
+ rides over features. When I first switched to the Jefe from M3, I felt like I wasn't even getting wet. 
+ autopilot feature - you know about that one, right?

Worse:
- less primary stability. I think this may actually be a plus, as I think it's part of what keeps it from getting knocked off line, but it took me a little bit to get used to.
- harder to roll. This comment may annoy some people, but I wish it were easier to roll. It's not hard to roll, but I've always thought a creekboat should be effortless, and I think the fact you sit high in it, makes it a little more difficult to roll. I ended up adjusting my roll a bit for this boat and that's helped out a lot.
- resurfacing is fine on this boat, but the M3 felt better
- Jefe has some quirkiness, like when it starts to veering off line it can be a bitch to get it back.

I don't want to get into a durability debate, but my M3 cracked at the chine without much abuse, but maybe it was just bad luck.

I would say the M3 233 is probably better as a specialized boat for low volume tight creeks. Jefe I think is better all around. I like the Jefe much more because I think it strikes a better balance in the features. I really appreciate the speed and tracking ability much more than the additional maneuverability the M3 offers. Also the Jefe goes where I want it to and doesn't get phased by funny water features.


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## mrekid (May 13, 2004)

It depends a lot on your paddling style as to what boat you will or wont like. I have paddled both of these boats on 4+ to 5+ and found both did things well but when the chips are down I found the Jefe to be the boat of choice for me. At your weight you really should get the 243 not the 233 resurfacing in a creek boat is key and the small one just doesnt have the volume necessary for you. Another boat I like is the Salto but you are on the top end for it. Personally I don't like all the generic crap put out by dagger and Wavesport these days not that the designs are necessarily bad its just these companies care more for profits than quality. Its just the nature of big business. The Burn is an interesting choice but it lacks some features of a true creek boat, wasn't designed as one per say. Final question is do you paddle displacement hulls much these days. If not it may be an easier transition into say a burn but you can have issues with the edges which is wy most true creeker have semi planing hulls with very round chines. Personally I vote Jefe. Besides if you break it they will send you a new shell.


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## thecraw (Oct 12, 2003)

MN,

I honestly don't like to banter about our boats as they usually speak for themselves just fine on their own... But because they just started shiping this week, I want you to know that the new Rocker line (punk rocker, rocker, mega rocker) are going to be unbeatable. 
First off, cross link is bottom line the strongest plastic used in kayaks today. A true testament to that is the 9 kayaks we have warranty'd to non team paddlers ( about double that more for our team). This is out of 5 or so THOUSAND kayaks we have sold since the company started. Secondly, the new design is absolutely bomber. Even though I loved the last one, it wasn't nearly as "purdy" as the Jefe, and among other things, it didn't do as well as our playboat lines. 

This year with 3 sizes, kick ass design, hull stregth that is honestly unmatched... you would be doing yourself a dis service to at least not check one out. YES YES, I work for the company, and once these are out to the mass's I will shut my mouth, but until then, I just want them to get reviewed by someone that can say what so many in the south east already know... They are really burly, paddle wonderfully, and have some advancements that very much seperate them from the pack.

I am not sure when RMA gets them (assuming you are indeed from FC, but they will very shortly. Call over there, or I will have my demos in about a week).

At your sizing... the new Rocker would be PERFECT.

Craw


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## gh (Oct 13, 2003)

at your weight I would avoid the Jefe


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## danger (Oct 13, 2003)

i thought the general consensus in the paddling community is that the HTP plastic from eskimo, prijon, and now drago rossi is the strongest. No?
all three companies are able to forgo center pillars thus increasing overall room (for stuff and the paddler) due to the boats strength.

dan


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## mrekid (May 13, 2004)

HTTP Plastic is stronger but it seems eskimo is having some QA/QC problems in the facotry at least thery were last year. I dont know why you should avoid the jefe at your weight I find my scrawny 180 lbs to be fine.


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## COUNT (Jul 5, 2005)

Craw, when and where can I get my hands on a Punk demo (I'm in Golden for the time being)?

Greg, what's wrong with the Jefe at that weight? Is it too small? Because I swear I've seen some pretty big guys paddling the Jefe.

COUNT


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## dasunluva (Oct 13, 2003)

I'm 6'3" and 210 lbs. and the Jefe does great for me. Be aggressive in the boat and it rocks, wish mine had an auto pilot. I'm am interested in seeing what the new Jackson line has in store. Best thing to do...demo, demo, demo!


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## gh (Oct 13, 2003)

I based it on watching and reading of heavier paddlers having issues with the jefe. If it works for you, cool.


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## colopaddler (Dec 8, 2003)

*thank you*

thank you all very much for taking the time to respond. the info you provided is very much appreciated and will help me make a choice. with the pool sessions starting it will be interesting to get into the new line boats .....but as we all know-what feels good in the pool has a completely different feel on the river. 

by the way, for the local paddlers, a friend and i snow shoe'd the big south last weekend..there is quite a bit of wood in the named rapids-we plan to go back and cut as much out as we can before the thaw.


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## thecraw (Oct 12, 2003)

Count...

I will have my demo fleet sometime next week (hence putting my 06's now on Buzz).

I am rather sure that the Punk made it into this shipment, but I know that the Mega is not in it this time. My SuperStar and Mega will be on their way in a few weeks.

Not sure where you are on weekends, but i plan on attending as many roll sessions around that I can. Let me know or you are welcome to pick it up from me as well.

Craw


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## mrekid (May 13, 2004)

I suspect the wood is the same as it was at the end of the season last year, annoying but manageable. Good luck with the clean out and bring a comealong. 

P.S. if you want to use chainsaws up there keep it hush hush technically it is illegal.


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## Phillips (Feb 19, 2004)

I recently got a jefe. Haven't paddled it yet but I have sat in it quite a bit. I paddled a Salto for years and thought that was a fine boat. I was going to go with a newer Salto, but the Jefe landed in my lap brand new for 500.00. REally looking forward to that boat. The outfitting is superb and I bet it boofs like a champ and doesn't get knocked off line or resurf a little squirely like the Salto.

Kent


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## Jiberish (Oct 20, 2003)

The Burn and Jefe are awesome boats. I would suggest checking out the new habitat as well....(and Im a WS team Member so call me biased )

This boat has had 2 years of R and D...and has been test driven around the world before hitting the production lines (chile, cali, canada etc). It has a safety step out system which is also integrated to hold the integrity of the boat (meaning it would be hard to fold the boat, and keeps the hull super strong) with the seat being low cut, you will be able fit your girlfriend in the back the next time you want to take her kayaking...but seriously you can fit a lot in the trunk haha...

Got mine with the new molding system.... which has made the plastics super strong..... and dependable. . Cross-link plastics are strong, however im not sure about the hole 9 boats theory.

The nomad would also be a great choice, and worth checking out. 
As for now, here are some links with some tribulations on the habitat...
as always though, I would suggest trying out a ton of boats..... and then deciding 

http://www.doubleyouess.com/currentNews.php?news_id=224

http://www.doubleyouess.com/currentNews.php?news_id=204

Ben Guska
Team WS


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