# 2017 Lottery Losers



## wyosam (May 31, 2006)

Streak continues in ID!


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## Buschman (Feb 12, 2017)

I'm a Idaho loser too but drew a rogue permit 3rd time in 4 years of putting in.


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## lmyers (Jun 10, 2008)

I made my yearly financial contribution to Rec.gov with nothing to show once again...


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## Mattchu (May 29, 2015)

4 ppl, selway and mf salmon. Unsuccessful. Cancelations are easy for the rest of the rivers so I don't put in for the main, hells canyon, Rogue.


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## markhusbands (Aug 17, 2015)

I got a one out of six hit on the San Juan. Late season, probably helped my odds.


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## Atomicrider (May 5, 2013)

Skunked! 17 years and counting. 


Sent from my iPhone using Mountain Buzz


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## duct tape (Aug 25, 2009)

Won a Selway one this year. Counting this on top of the main a couple of years ago I guess I should stop whining about contributing money to Rec.gov. Now I need some of this Idaho luck with the Yampa!


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## restrac2000 (Mar 6, 2008)

duct tape said:


> Won a Selway one this year. Counting this on top of the main a couple of years ago I guess I should stop whining about contributing money to Rec.gov. Now I need some of this Idaho luck with the Yampa!


Congrats, Duct Tape. Selway is such a phenomenal place and experience.


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## duct tape (Aug 25, 2009)

Might be a little low on the 10th? Hard to say. Looks like North Idaho isn't seeing quite the same snowpack as farther south.


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## Easy Tiger (Jun 22, 2016)

We got skunked on San Juan, MF Salmon and Selway. My wife pulled a Rogue permit (which we really weren't expecting to get). Looks like we'll be making the long drive from Colorado this year; maybe hit Owyhee on the way out.

Still waiting to hear on Deso/Grey and Yampa... (fingers crossed!)


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## CurrentLY (Aug 24, 2016)

My crew has pulled a Rogue, Main Salmon, _and_ Middle Fork permit. We're discussing whether or not to try to do both the Main and MF given that we would need to launch from Corn Creek 13 days after we put in at Boundary Creek. This is the kind of problem I like to have.


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## rubtheduck (Jun 20, 2016)

5 years running...nothing


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## markhusbands (Aug 17, 2015)

rubtheduck said:


> 5 years running...nothing


bummer.


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## UriahJones (Aug 10, 2015)

My group struck out. Hoping for cancellation. We're not a long standing group yet, but we've now accumulated a stunning 0 for 51 record in draws. Maybe next year.


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## trevko (Jul 7, 2008)

My group got skunked on the MFS once again - but one of us got a Hell's Cyn. Waiting for Ladore/Yampa....


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## 90Duck (Nov 19, 2012)

Nada here. I liked it better when I still had hope with the "lottery freeze period" status. I put in for the Yampa on a lark, so maybe, just maybe...


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## jgrebe (Jan 16, 2010)

duct tape said:


> Won a Selway one this year. Counting this on top of the main a couple of years ago I guess I should stop whining about contributing money to Rec.gov. Now I need some of this Idaho luck with the Yampa!


Hey Ducttape let me know if your looking for crew? I'm like you ( judging by our boating since dates)and running out of years to row the Selway. Would love to see that river some day


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## David L (Feb 13, 2004)

Don't take him! Nobody wants to boat with that guy! Take me! Take me!!!



jgrebe said:


> Hey Ducttape let me know if your looking for crew? I'm like you ( judging by our boating since dates)and running out of years to row the Selway. Would love to see that river some day


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## jgrebe (Jan 16, 2010)

I begged first


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## RaisedOnARiver (Feb 14, 2017)

We ran the Selway at extremely low water. Tricky, but definitely a once in a lifetime trip. If you have the permit and the levels are not prohibitively low, it's so worth it.


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## duct tape (Aug 25, 2009)

Average for the Selway at Paradise for July 10 since 2007 is around 2 ft., with a few significant outliers. That would be fine, but will just wait and see how it plays out.

https://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/fsbdev3_029251.pdf


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## dirtbagkayaker (Oct 29, 2008)

Its my lucky year too. 

I drew several Lower Salmon, Owyhee, and SFS river permits this year. Woo Hoo.. But sadly, I can not use all my permits. So, I'd be willing to trade 2 maybe 3 of my Lower Salmon permits for just one of your Main, Middle, or Selway permits. Don't miss out on this once in a lifetime opportunity to make your dreams come true and float the Lower, Owyhee, and SFS all in the same year! Hee hee hee.

Congrats to those who drew.


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## dirtbagkayaker (Oct 29, 2008)

duct tape said:


> Average for the Selway at Paradise for July 10 since 2007 is around 2 ft., with a few significant outliers. *That would be fine, but will just wait and see how it plays out.*
> 
> https://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/fsbdev3_029251.pdf


I love long ranger forecasts. So...


There so much freeking snow that I think you can assume the high end of the chart. I'm thinking closer to 3'


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## RaisedOnARiver (Feb 14, 2017)

Launched under 1' on the Selway in early July 2015. If your launch date this year is July 10 you should have prime flows. I would not want to see that river at high water, though. It's a beast.


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## Wadeinthewater (Mar 22, 2009)

dirtbagkayaker said:


> I drew several Lower Salmon, Owyhee, and SFS river permits this year.


DBK - I drew permits for the John Day, Grande Ronde and Illinois if you are interested in a trip swap.


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## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

dirtbagkayaker said:


> I love long ranger forecasts. So...
> 
> 
> There so much freeking snow that I think you can assume the high end of the chart. I'm thinking closer to 3'


How much snow did you guys lose last weekend? We lost a ton. It rained all the way up above Lolo pass (7K'). Even though the selway snotel jumped to 100%, I am less optimistic for beast flows than before.


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## wshutt (Jun 20, 2013)

Rained to the ridge tops in the Payette last Thursday (8000ft +). The Clearwater basin is about 100%, the Salmon a little higher. Lots more as you move further South. It's been a weird Winter - more snow at the lower elevations than usual, Lewiston had snow on the ground for several weeks and several good falls that brought the city to a standstill BUT not translating to more snow at higher elevations. We can get so much in March/April it could still go either way.


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## flat_side_down (Sep 1, 2011)

Swing .....and a miss. 0 for 6 in our group for Middle and Main Salmon dates this year Realizing now how lucky I was to draw Lodore the first year I every applied.


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## wyosam (May 31, 2006)

And no Deso love either... come on Dino.


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## DoubleShadow (May 2, 2013)

duct tape said:


> Average for the Selway at Paradise for July 10 since 2007 is around 2 ft., with a few significant outliers. That would be fine, but will just wait and see how it plays out.
> 
> https://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/fsbdev3_029251.pdf


I've done the Selway about 40 times or so. Mostly around that time of the year your lucky if you have over 1' by mid July. My guess would be somewhere around 1.5' for July 10. Congrats on the permit, its a hard one to draw.


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## Critter70 (Nov 22, 2016)

Skunked, it does seem like my friends that are getting permits are being notified before my friends being denied. Keep getting told I won when I'm still frozen out, then denied. I'll haul gear if anyone needs boating friends


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## dirtbagkayaker (Oct 29, 2008)

lhowemt said:


> How much snow did you guys lose last weekend? We lost a ton. It rained all the way up above Lolo pass (7K'). Even though the selway snotel jumped to 100%, I am less optimistic for beast flows than before.



I have 2 feet of snow in my yard at 3300 feet above sea level and 6 to 10 foot piles everywhere. It has been melting and raining with more rain on the way. I also ski at Lookout, Sliver, Brundage, and cottonwood butte has been better than I can remember. Even Lewiston had a month of snow on the ground. It has not even started to really melt. Usually I'm tilling my garden this time of year but its under 2 feet of snow. I park on 7 inches of ice and the snow is heavy wet. It seems to be hanging around. I'm actually getting tried of it. Believe it or not. 

They say that the dry spring/summer is going to set in so you could be right and we see lower flows with a high early peek.


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## Roguelawyer (Apr 2, 2015)

Denied on the Rogue which seems kind of strange since I have always picked up cancellations. I figured that would be an easy draw. I have always gotten on but would like to be able to plan ahead a little more.

I was successful for Deso/Grey in July tho.


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## wyosam (May 31, 2006)

Winner Winner Chicken Dinner! June 7 Yampa!


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## River Malt (Dec 7, 2009)

Another score for the Yampa! June 11 baby!


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## John_in_Loveland (Jun 9, 2011)

River Malt said:


> Another score for the Yampa! June 11 baby!


If you are looking for another front range boater, let me know....I'm really a nice guy...


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## David L (Feb 13, 2004)

Never mind what my parole officer says.



John_in_Loveland said:


> If you are looking for another front range boater, let me know....I'm really a nice guy...


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## tmacc (Sep 6, 2009)

0 for 10 including my wife's apps.:-(


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## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

dirtbagkayaker said:


> I have 2 feet of snow in my yard at 3300 feet above sea level and 6 to 10 foot piles everywhere. It has been melting and raining with more rain on the way. I also ski at Lookout, Sliver, Brundage, and cottonwood butte has been better than I can remember. Even Lewiston had a month of snow on the ground. It has not even started to really melt. Usually I'm tilling my garden this time of year but its under 2 feet of snow. I park on 7 inches of ice and the snow is heavy wet. It seems to be hanging around. I'm actually getting tried of it. Believe it or not.
> 
> They say that the dry spring/summer is going to set in so you could be right and we see lower flows with a high early peek.


40 degrees and raining on lookout pass today. Blah.


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## dsmith01 (Sep 22, 2015)

Bummer, no go for Gates. Maybe next year...


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## Rivers (May 13, 2010)

I had heard there is a hacker who hacked into the site and was holding cancelation dates for a price. It used to be the cancellations were issued after a certain time. Now it's issued from a certain time in the morning. Nothing is sacred anymore. 


Sent from my iPhone using Mountain Buzz


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## luckylauren (Apr 3, 2016)

*Salmon Rangers Adressed this*



Rivers said:


> I had heard there is a hacker who hacked into the site and was holding cancelation dates for a price. It used to be the cancellations were issued after a certain time. Now it's issued from a certain time in the morning. Nothing is sacred anymore.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Mountain Buzz


A private internet user developed an algorithm to detect when cancellations were made and a website where for a fee it would notify users of these cancellations.

The Salmon River district dealt with this by making it so they have a specific window where you must call in to secure cancelled permits. I believe this window is at 8am EST. 

This isn't resolved I believe for any Utah rivers, but at least the Salmon rangers had a reason to fix it.


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## dirtbagkayaker (Oct 29, 2008)

IMHO Nothing has really changed much. If you were out hunting permits, it didn't take long to determine that the website updated at certain times. Notably 9pm pst or midnight on the east coast. With 50% certainty, I could pull a permit just by manually smashing the reservation site from 9:00 to 9:02 pm PST on every Monday night. I believe people were more likely to cancel over the weekend and website integrations ran Monday nite at low traffic time in the past. 90% of all availabilities were at that time from my experiences. From time to time odd permits would become available. I believe that USFS put a time restriction just to be more transparent and to give people on the east coast a time when they are not asleep. I don't understand who would pay to have access to the 4 or 6 permits that come up in July. I just can't believe that a web developer would go through all the effort of VISA pay, website scraping, and server maintenance for what? I mean are people paying $100 a month for 12 months a year for that service? You would need like 1000 subscribers paying a ridiculous fee for next to zero results. Woo wait I just described every adult dating site  I just don't buy the website pay to play thing like a shoplifter. I believe this was a effort by the USFS to be as fare and transparent as possible.


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## paulk (Apr 24, 2006)

Woo wait I just described every adult dating site

Yeah, but if you get a permit, you're guaranteed a good time...


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## mattman (Jan 30, 2015)

And more likely to catch fish than Herpes.


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