# Tele Advice



## GoodTimes

I'm committing to tele's and I'm looking for a little advice. Been thinking about ditching the alpines for about 10 or 12 years and I'm finally to the point where I'm going to make it happen.

Little bit about me...I've been skiing for 34 years (since I was 3), I've always skied pretty aggressively...bumps were my thing. I don't have it in my legs anymore to huck myself off big drops or terrain park booters or spend the day on bumps...so it's time to transition. I've spent a few days on tele's, really loved it, could link turns on groomers.

So here's what I'm thinking...drop the $$$ on really good boots. I considered taking my alpine bindings off my ski's and putting tele bindings on, but I think I'd rather keep them (my son will start skiing next year). So I'll just get a cheap and/or used pair for the first couple years. But I want good boots to start...what should I look for? I'll be skinning maybe next year (have some friends with split boards). I'm about 6'2", 210ish with a narrow foot (I know some brands of alpine boots are made for wider feet, I'm assuming tele boots are the same?).

Any/all advice would be greatly appreciated.

Jeb


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## ENDOMADNESS

Scarpa are typically for narrower feet (which i have- T1 model). Garmont are for a little wider. Black Diamond are inbetween (average foot).
I highly recommend something with 4 buckles to power todays skis (100 - 120 mm underfoot)


http://gearx.com/blog/2010/09/17/a-quick-ski-boot-fit-guide-for-alpine-touring-and-telemark-boots/


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## bells

I'm about your size (6'4, 200) and have a narrow foot, and I'm pretty comfortable saying you want to look at a Scarpa, probably a T1. Black Diamond boots also fit a narrow foot really well, but they are heavier, more expensive, and I never fell in love with the pair I owned for a while. They felt great in the store, but in the real world I found them cold, heavy, and unnecessarily complicated. Worth a try if you get a good deal on them, but I wouldn't go out of my way.

Scarpas are the classic narrow-foot tele boot, and the T1 is the downhill-oriented do-everything model in the middle of their lineup. I've heard smaller folks say they're too big to tour in, but after a couple of decades skiing lighter boots (lots of leather, T2, T2x) I really didn't notice any extra heft when I went to a T1, but I definitely appreciated the extra power on the downhill. I also have friend who does everything in a T-Race, which seems a bit much to me, though if you find a good deal on a model with a walk mode (not every year had them) it might be okay.

You might hear a lot of noise about NTN boots and bindings. I'd ignore it, since you want cheap/used skis, and because it's yet more complicated nonsense that makes me wonder why folks tele in the first place. You're on the right track with used skis, too, since there are enough tele folks moving to NTN that the market is pretty flooded with traditional tele rigs (at least around Colorado).

Oh, the equivalent of the Buzz for pinheads is http://telemarktalk.com/ -- you'll find an infinite amount of advice there, and maybe even some used gear.

Good luck! Someday I'm going to go the other direction and get some alpine gear....


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## jennifer

I second the Scarpas. I tried Garmont boots and I was swimming in them. The Scarpas with thermomoldable liners are awesome. Get a cheap, used pair of skis, and I'd go a little shorter than what you have for your alpines. Look for hammerhead bindings. I had g3s on my first pair, and when I switched to hammerheads I improved instantly.


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## malczyk

telemarkdown.com they are the only seller of crispi boot in the country


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## Roy

If you're gonna be doing a lot of skinning up, I'd go with 22 Designs' Axl binding rather than their Hammerhead. Same great toe hold while you're skiing, but releases to a hinge for climbing, which is much easier.


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## mulex

Make sure you get a good shell fit on the boots. Take the liner out stick in your foot and there should be about two fingers of space at the heel if you get your toes to the front of the shell. I'm also narrow footed and love my T1's, BD didn't work for me either, but if you came try them out first, go for it. Garmonts (now Scott) have gotten narrower with their newer boots (Voodoo), so they're worth a try.

Probably go with Axls- wait till the season ending sales pop up and you can get 'em for around $225- so worth it. Since you're a big feller avoid older BD-01 bindings at all costs- they rip out of the ski far too often. This year's have 6 mounting screw up front, so if you find a deal they would be fine. G3's Enzo might work and they're $170 on Telemarkski.com right now, but I haven't seen any reviews. If you really just want to get some area skis and wait for a touring setup, find some used Hammerheads. Telemarkski.com gets a lot of closeouts and used demos at the end of the season so I'd keep an eye on them.

Sign up for TTips account soon- it's tough to get approved, but the moderator has been active lately.

This all said, I've been on tele exclusively for the last 20 years and have to admit it is a really stupid way of getting down the hill. I'm just too cheap of a bastard to make the switch to AT.


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## GoodTimes

So I'm looking on BackCountry.com and the T2 seems like a good boot...would I be happy with that one for many years???

Will Tele boots last as long as Alpine boots??? Sounds like they have a shorter lifespan??? I've been skiing with the same pair of Nordica's for about 16 years...any chance tele boots make it that long???

Sheesh....these babies are $$$$$$$$$

The four buckle thing seems to be important (T2 = 3).


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## CGM

GoodTimes said:


> So I'm looking on BackCountry.com and the T2 seems like a good boot...would I be happy with that one for many years???
> 
> Will Tele boots last as long as Alpine boots??? Sounds like they have a shorter lifespan??? I've been skiing with the same pair of Nordica's for about 16 years...any chance tele boots make it that long???
> 
> Sheesh....these babies are $$$$$$$$$
> 
> The four buckle thing seems to be important (T2 = 3).


 
Unless your concern is weight, don't consider anything without 4 buckles. Even if you're concerned with weight, you will loose an incredible amount of power and control with a 3 buckle boot. Find the manufacturer whose last works for your foot...though the Intuition liners on the Scarpa's are the best, hands down. 

Depending on how much you're planning to ride lifts vs hike, I'd seriously consider the NTN setup. You can tour with them, especially with a walk mode on your boot, and it will provide the most power. About the only place it lacks in touring ability is kickturns. 

If I bought another pair of 75mm bindings, I'd get the axls.

No way you're getting 16 years outta a pair of tele boots. The bellows won't last that long if you're skiing alot. 

If your main goal is to get into the backcountry and tour...get an AT setup and skip the tele thing....and stay very far away from TTips. Its even more outdated and useless with more crusty old has beens than Mountainbuzz.


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## catwoman

Huzzah! A tele convert! 
I ski 40-60 days a year on tele's. I have not had a teleboot last more than 3 seasons. I would suggest you demo some different teleboots, because how they feel in the store and how they feel when you drop a knee are two very different things. I got new Scarpa's last spring and they are killing me, I don't have wide feet and I can wear them walking around, but you might find me on the verge of tears after three runs if I wear them - time to give up on them (for me). Definitely invest time and money in the boot, including moldable liners. The type of boot willl depend on what kind skiing you really want to do. For backcountry touring choose a lower profile more comfortable boot, if you want to stomp bumps and steeps go with a taller/more buckles boot. By the way, skiing bumps on tele is really, really, fun and much less jarring to knees and backs than bumping on alpine skis (in my opinion). 

My first tele skis were my old alpine skis. In general skis labeled "tele" don't hold up well to bump skiing, so most of my "tele" skis have been alpine skis with telebindings. The distinction between tele and alpine skis is disappearing in favor of more terrain specific designations (backcountry, park, all mountain, etc.). I find it is pretty easy to kill a "backcountry" or "tele" ski at the ski resort. My current set ups are K2 side stashes with BD 01s for fluffier or choppier days and backcountry, and Icelantic Oracles with hammerheads for everyday. Alot of my friends found NTN far too clunky/mechanical feeling after years of tele in more traditional equipment. But lots of new tele folks seem to like it. Taller boots and stiffer bindings make easier to "cheat" the tele turn by standing just on the front leg instead of both the front and back foot.

Wearing teles while teaching a little kid to ski is great. You have much more mobility and can get down on kid level with ease.


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## bells

Crusty has-been here. 16 years is a long time! Consider that the first all-plastic tele boot hit the market 20 years ago--its hard to imagine too many of those early models being held onto that long. In addition to being seriously outdated, the bellows (the flexy part over the ball of your foot) takes a beating, and is likely to either be cut through or worn out in that amount of time. Of course, I still like and ski my almost 10-year-old T1s, with only three buckles *gasp* , but they're not my only boots, and I don't get in nearly as many days as I'd like, so....

As a fellow big dude, I think you'll like a taller boot with more lean (T1), regardless of the number of buckles, especially if you're paying anywhere near retail for them. Also, since you're a bigger dude just getting started with tele, I would stick to your original plan and spend your $$$ on good boots that fit right and not worry too much if the cheap used skis you find don't have the flavor-of-the-month binding. You'll know soon enough if you need/want a more active binding, but we big dudes can do more with a less active binding than smaller folks can.

Gotta say, though, if I were starting skiing today, I'd skip tele altogether and get some AT gear. I've only skied with locked heels a few times in my life, so its too late for me, but current AT gear seems lighter, safer, and more capable than any tele rig. Of course, with tele you can get away with excessive facial hair and save money on grooming products and soap, so it still has its appeal for us old dirtbags.


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## catwoman

"Gotta say, though, if I were starting skiing today, I'd skip tele altogether and get some AT gear . . . its too late for me, but current AT gear seems lighter, safer, and more capable than any tele rig."

As someone who started down the tele road before plastic boots (1989??) I'd have to agree with my fellow Lousivillian Bells on this one. But, somehow, I just can't bring myself to quit.


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## GoodTimes

I should mention...I'm not interested in getting into tele's purely to skin and get to the back country more easily. Sure, that'll be awesome and I'm looking forward to it.....my BC experience has been cat trips, etc...I'm more motivated by the style!! 

I've done just about everything I've wanted to do on ski's....there's not much else for me, and I'm not to proud to admit that my best bump and jump days are behind me....so it's time to really get into this.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but AT's are good for the BC but you're locked in when descending anything, right? That wouldn't be what I'm looking for.

It was an old dude on the chair at Monarch many years ago (maybe '99?) that was rippin' the tele's..we talked and talked, took a couple runs. He was convinced that the style added 15 or 20 years to his "quality" skiing years by being less harsh on the joints. That's when I started thinking about tele's.


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## Billy Goat

I've rocked Crispi for years. I have a similar narrow foot and I'm about your stats. They are very comfy and the four buckle models have nice rigidity but easy to loosen for the skin. Awesome way to ski, not my best discipline but I do try to get 8-12 or so days/yr on them. AT has taken some days away. I am not a good tele'er with a weighted pack and that has presented problems in various scenarios. Good luck, work on that core strength for sure and stay low to start.


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## lhowemt

Tele- the dance- it's glorious. I both alpine and tele and love them. Try on boots, spend the money on them. Hell we used alpine skis forever back when tele skis were as wide as xc. Use whatever you want. I would stay away from ntn for starters. Big, heavy, expensive. You can always go that direction later.

I agree with the scarpa pain, gen 2 t1's made me cry and I had to go buy garmonts. I think scarpa has a small toebox and I have long toes.

This spring rock a long flowy skirt one day you are up with your wife- men in dresses on tele's are hot! At least that's what I thought about my hubby when he did!


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## Chief Niwot

Maybe you want to get a whitewater canoe while your at it too!  

There is some good advice in this thread already. Don't let these downhill skiers talk you out of tele. You can mount old alpine skis with a tele binding, but find good 4 buckle boots and a good active binding to use. Whatever you do, don't buy an old Asolo leather or 3 buckle boot and G3 cable bindings  The newer tele boots with active bindings (BD 01s or AXLs) will allow you to tele or downhill in confidence, without your heel locked of course. I have never tried the NTN, but seems to me you might as well downhill, if you go that non-traditional route.

I have the BD Pushes with 01s and have 4 years on them of 40-60 days used at the area, backcountry, and hut trips with no problems, knock on wood. You can usually extend the life of your boots with new liners. I have heard of 01s pulling out on weak cored skis, but mine have been bomber on my Movement wood core skis.

As an older skier, I switch off sking downhill and tele style as I want too through out the day. I prefer to tele in the harder steeps and cruise around downhill in easier runs, groomers or shallow snowed trees to protect my knees. 

If your a tree/pow/explorer skier, tele is great. It allows you to ski, traverse, hike, find your pow window of opportunity and hit it without dickin around with locking and unlocking in these type of conditions.

Plus, like canoing, tele is not easy, it takes a little more practice/skill to get good and it is a great workout. If you can't find a deal on new, check some of the local ski shops or used gear stores for used tele gear. Good Luck and tele till your smelly!


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## Porkchop

tele check. Its the shit. turns an ok day into an adventure. anybody can ski that shit. 4 buckle boot check, big guy bigger skis needs the bigger boot. T1 is still pretty light weight compared to a alpine race boot. i run the black diamond seeker 3 buckles but still pretty substantial. new bindings with tour mode check. Any good modern ski say right around 100mm underfoot check, good for everything. prepare to get strong my friend, i feel it takes a lot more energy/strength to ski at the same speed level as an alpiner. makes ya tuff. AT boots suck. yeah the bindings are great but the boots are soft not good for real turns. try to find some real leather boots and old skinny skis to gain the real apprecitation for the tele position. when your boots won't support you, you need a stance that will... don't shower quite as much... some plastic cap knee pads can be handy if you start getting into bumps. ski fast take chances.


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## johnryan

Tele is cool, so graceful when done well. took me a year to get it down. Good luck.

Rent different things first, then buy the rental you liked best when they sell them.


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## catwoman

Porkchop mentions a very importnat piece of equipment. Knee pads - everyday. When you fall, it is possible for the knee to come down on the edge of ski. I have known people who have broken the patella, been cut, or badly bruised. Black diamond knee pads are by far the best I have tried. Knee pads are also great for kneeling in the snow while helping the kid.


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## lhowemt

catwoman said:


> t I have tried. Knee pads are also great for kneeling in the snow while helping the kid.


Also for crawling around getting up after you do an egg-beater, body slam, or any other type of general digger. I hope you aren't too proud to fall (in soft snow, not groomers), it's part of the fun!


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## catwoman

Just waiting for the buzzards to start circling on what knee pads are good for....


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## GoodTimes

lhowemt said:


> I hope you aren't too proud to fall (in soft snow, not groomers), it's part of the fun!


My dad and grandpops always said..."if you're not falling you're not getting any better". Live by it and I will raise my boy on the slopes the same way.

Falling is fun!! Although a little more painful these days....


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## T-Boss

crispies are awsome boots, i've skied and skinned mine hard for 5 years and they are still fine, I have a normal to narrow foot, second on the 4 buckle for sure, and the bd kneepads are great, especially for giving thanks to your friends for waiting for you all day while you pretend you can keep up... trying to get the ball rolling here catwoman


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## g.soutiere

I love my crispi cxr's I have a wide foot and they are comfortable. I came from straight boards, volle releasible bindings, and merell super comps, now I have work stinks,G3's, and crispis, I cam keep up with most people. the draw back on the crispis that i have seen and heard from noumerous people is the toe cracks on them, I have been skiing mine with the crack for two years with no problems. My knees love that I switched to tele, after a day on alpines my knees are killing me, after a day snowboarding my knees hurt, after a day of tele my muscles are jello but my knees feel awesome. If you plan on going with the G3 bindings make sure to get the heavy springs.


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## Chief Niwot

*Crispi*

I have a buddy who has the cracked Crispi toe, that uses Gorilla tape on. He wants to buy another pair, but finding them hard to find. Do yo know where to get them?


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## g.soutiere

Not any more alpine quest stopped carring them two plus years ago. there was a shop in glenwood thad carried them last year but can't remember the name, not sure if they still carry them.


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## blutzski

I was in the same spot as you when I switched to tele. I got to the point where challenging myself on alpine gear any further usually meant bodily injury. You can only keep going faster and bigger up to a point as you get older. So if that is what you are looking for, tele is a great option. You'll be challenged again on terrain that bored you on alpine gear. Bump runs will become fluid and fun rather than bone-jarring. You'll be in more pain at the end of the day, but it's a good muscle sore pain, not a knee and back pain like you probably feel from alpine skiing. 

Forget AT. It's the same as alpine except on flimsier, more expensive gear. AT is only useful if you're skinning to extreme terrain where you don't feel comfortable on tele gear. 

I would highly recommend demoing NTN gear. As you can probably gather from the comments here, many people hate it and many people love it. I love it. I disagree with the people that say NTN is so stiff it defeats the purpose for teleing. My Scarpa TX Pro boots are WAY softer than most of the boots people tele on nowadays. I found the NTN system to be a softer flexing system than say an AXL or Hammerhead but with way more lateral stability and edge hold. It seems to me that long-time tele skiers don't like the feel of NTN or it takes them a long time to get use to it. Whereas ex-alpine skiers love the edge grip that the NTN provides that they felt was missing from standard tele set-ups.To get that edge grip back, people would go with super stiff boots and bindings. But to me, that defeats the purpose of teleing. If I want stiff, I'll step into my alpine gear. NTN provides a nice soft forward flex while giving superior edge grip. 

Teleing is the best for skiing with kids. Easy mobility and comfy boots. Plus when you are learning to tele, you are not getting bored waiting around for slower skiers. 

While people here are saying that Scarpa boots are for narrow feet and Garmonts are for wide feet, that does not appear to be true for Scarpa's NTN boots. When I was on traditional tele gear, I skied Garmonts due to my wide feet. But when I switched to NTN, I found the Scarpa NTN boots to be more comfortable than the Garmonts. 

Keep your alpine gear. No matter how fun teleing is, after alpining for 30 years, you'll occasionally feel the need for speed.


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## MT4Runner

Chief Niwot said:


> Whatever you do, don't buy an old Asolo leather or 3 buckle boot and G3 cable bindings


Hey, I like my 3-buckle T2's and my G3 cables!! They're mucho better-o than my T1's and Rivas!



jennifer said:


> Look for hammerhead bindings. I had g3s on my first pair, and when I switched to hammerheads I improved instantly.


Hmmm..I might have to go shopping.



catwoman said:


> By the way, skiing bumps on tele is really, really, fun and much less jarring to knees and backs than bumping on alpine skis (in my opinion).
> 
> Wearing teles while teaching a little kid to ski is great. You have much more mobility and can get down on kid level with ease.


I started Tele'ing 10 years ago, and I agree 1,000,000x on both of these points. Your kid is learning, you may as well be learning as well. You can also skate uphill much easier on the rare occasions you get downhill of your guy and he falls down uphill of you. You end up spending a lot of time on freeheel skis, which helps contribute to your overall balance.

Like you, I was pushing myself harder and faster, and I didn't fall very often, but when I did, I hurt bad. I fell A LOT my first few years of tele; now I only fall occasionally, and the falls don't hurt as bad.

You can have your own legitimate falls to show your son that falling is a part of learning. I'm really, really glad I was learning while my daughter was learning. It made the time on the green slopes a lot of fun for both of us.

Also check out Allen and Mike's Really Cool Telemark Tips book. Buy a copy and put it on the toilet tank and read one tip a day. I used to take my daughter out on a pulk and make single turn laps on the hill in the park behind our house.



GoodTimes said:


> I should mention...I'm not interested in getting into tele's purely to skin and get to the back country more easily. Sure, that'll be awesome and I'm looking forward to it.....my BC experience has been cat trips, etc...I'm more motivated by the style!!
> 
> I've done just about everything I've wanted to do on ski's....there's not much else for me, and I'm not to proud to admit that my best bump and jump days are behind me....so it's time to really get into this.


Absolutely. Learning "the turn" has made blue runs fun again. Now that I'm rippin the black diamonds (granted, they're the equivalent of a solid class III whitewater run), it's fun to be "the old guy" on the chairlift. :lol:



Chief Niwot said:


> Maybe you want to get a whitewater canoe while your at it too!


:lmao:
:lol:



Porkchop said:


> some plastic cap knee pads can be handy if you start getting into bumps. ski fast take chances.


I definitely agree on the knee pads. They also keep your "getting older" knees warm.


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## lmyers

catwoman said:


> Porkchop mentions a very importnat piece of equipment. Knee pads - everyday. When you fall, it is possible for the knee to come down on the edge of ski. I have known people who have broken the patella, been cut, or badly bruised. Black diamond knee pads are by far the best I have tried. Knee pads are also great for kneeling in the snow while helping the kid.


X2 Black Diamond knee pads are worth it. I hit my knee on a tree stump when making some deep tele turns in the trees on a powder day a couple years ago. Sent me flying, and took my knee 2 weeks to recover..... luckily I don't think I did permanent damage. Now I wear knee pads, definitely a necessity.


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## Clark

Well, you've got a ton of advice and ideas here. Agree with a lot of what folks are saying, and since there is a ton to wade through here, I'll offer some priorities: 

Boots are the top priority - you are right about that. Stiffer is better these days, including for beginners. Softer boots were for a time when tele turns went way low - most people don't do that any more. If you want to go fast, power through crud, and carve groomers, get stiff boots. People have listed plenty of brand options - just get what fits. You can find good ones used too. Just make sure they are stiff, BUT you do need to be able to flex the bellows. 

Bindings are the next priority - just make sure they are active, meaning that they are not just cables. As with boots, burlier is better, even for (especially for) beginners. You might as well get one that has a good touring mode. 01s are good. I've heard the Axl is good. There are others. 

Skis - you're thinking is right, you can wing it on about anything to get started. But before long you'll want something decent (used or new). Just as in alpine, bigger is generally better - even on hard snow (but makes bumps tough, oh well). Something between 105 and 115 underfoot is good for a one quiver ski. Again, basically like alpine.


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## GoodTimes

Sweet...sure do appreciate all the great advice so far!!!

I went with Scarpa's after trying them on along with BD Push and Garmonts. Tried on the T1 and loved em...however i ordered the T race. Same liner and shell size so i'm sure the fit will be the same. Little beefier boot will be a good thing for me...i believe.

Trying everything out tomorrow night and super stoked. Vday date with the wife at bogus basin.

Haven't found a pair of ski's yet...that's tomorrows project. Thanks again for all the advice on size/width and bindings!


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## MT4Runner

Oh, and go tele 100% until you're comfortable with the turn. I slowed my progress my first year flip-flopping between alpine and tele.

You will force yourself to have good balance. You can always "lapse back" into p-turn mode with your tele gear, but going back to your alpine gear will let you get lazy and lose the balance you've worked to learn.

If the fun budget is sprung with boots and bindings, just grab some decent, used alpine boards and mount them up. If they've still got life in them, you're NOT going to destroy them tele'ing.


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## blutzski

Now that you got the gear, I second MT4Runner's advice to get "Allen and Mike's Really Cool Telemark Tips". That book is gold for the learning to tele.


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## catwoman

If you fall forward you are doing something right. I like to wear goggles instead of sunglasses. I nearly plucked out an eyeball with a ski tip in 1994 following an attempt at a tele-360 while wearing sunglasses.

On easy terrain, like catwalks, try to shuffle your feet while making gentle turns - so your lead ski alternates throughout the turn. It will help you learn the size of your "tele platform" and you can't do it unless you are weighting both feet.

Congratulations!!!


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## freeheeltim

Please remember this: Telemarking is not a license to suck. I swear, from most of the people I see on the hill, there's a lot of people making my sport look bad. Skiing slow, rear ski trailing them like some sad, lost poodle. Ugh. Also, don't get too hung up on the tele turn itself. Just ski. nobody cares that you tele. You can make perfectly fine P-turns on modern tele gear with stiff boots and active bindings. For steep, large bumps and super right trees, for me, tele turns are just silly. For all those "drop the knee or drop the sport" folks, I'll be waiting for you at the bottom. Also, do yourself a favor and just skip G3 Targas altogether. They actually ski just fine, for a neutral binding. If I had a dollar for every time those POS excuse for a binding broke while I was skiing, I'd have at least $10! Get some Hammerheads, or some Voile Hardwires, or some Cobras. Also, they're making the Bishop again! Regardless, have fun! Tele is the best thing in the world! I'll never lock my heels.


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## GoodTimes

Awesome....had a GREAT time last night. 

Lesson's learned on day one:

1. Posture is everything...at least for a beginner learning the turn
2. "Athletic stance" (as I like to call it) is even more important to maintain with tele's...you can't get lazy.
3. Don't be a pussy...dig deep, go deep, be aggressive. When I was trying to be all cute and thinking about too many things...I wasn't very smooth....when I let it rip, got aggressive, went deep into the turns...it seemed to come together much better.

Very cool to be excited about skiing again...it's been too long.


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## mulex

GoodTimes said:


> Awesome....had a GREAT time last night.
> 
> Lesson's learned on day one:
> 
> 1. Posture is everything...at least for a beginner learning the turn
> 2. "Athletic stance" (as I like to call it) is even more important to maintain with tele's...you can't get lazy.
> 3. Don't be a pussy...dig deep, go deep, be aggressive. When I was trying to be all cute and thinking about too many things...I wasn't very smooth....when I let it rip, got aggressive, went deep into the turns...it seemed to come together much better.
> 
> Very cool to be excited about skiing again...it's been too long.


Yup, you're getting it. Ski like a muthafuckin' honey badger.


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## ZGjethro

blutzski said:


> Forget AT. It's the same as alpine except on flimsier, more expensive gear. AT is only useful if you're skinning to extreme terrain where you don't feel comfortable on tele gear.


I have skied for 42 years, and for 20+ of that I went back and forth between alpine and tele. I started developing a quad tendonitis and decided to give up the tele. As far as bluski's comment, you really need to investigate the current crop of AT boots and bindings. You can buy three models of DIN 16 AT bindings and the boots are now as stiff as most alpine boots. Many of these boots are compatible with the fantastic Dynafit binding if you are more touring oriented.
It is one thing to do tele if you really like the turn. AT and alpine just does everything better and faster


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## ZGjethro

continued:
Check out boots like these for next year. Other makers have similar stuff out now.Bring Your Steak Knives for the Beef – Salomon and Atomic Tech Boots - The Backcountry Skiing Blog. These coupled with a Duke or Tyrolia Adrenalin or Salomon Guardian binding would allow 90% inbounds and 10% BC easily. If you want to go tele, then do it for a desire for a different turning experience, not for some perceived (wrongly?) idea that tele is a better BC option. It is not.


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## blutzski

I should clarify that I meant the original poster should forget AT. He expressed an interest in finding a new challenge since Alpining was getting stale after 30 years. Like you said, with the gear currently available, AT is not much different than Alpine (thus the reason it's called Alpine Touring) and would not give him that new challenge. 

I personally think AT and Tele each have benefits in the backcountry. Tele is better for simplicty and motoring over rolling terrain without having to lock and unlock your bindings. AT is better for skiing extreme terrain and breakable crust. Agreed that on the downhill, Alpine and AT does everything easier and faster. If I lived somewhere with better terrain (not Colorado) I probably never would have picked up teleing. I'll be mounting up my new powder boards with some Solomon Guardians for sidecountry excursions.


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## joey11

So what your gonna want to do is burn your tele stuff and go back to alpining! I tele'd for five years and the minute I got on alpine skis there was no going back! It is a waste of time more of a pain in the ass and if your worried about your legs teleing is not for you! The worst part is you turn into a smug self loving freeheel idiot who thinks they are so much better than everyone cause their farts smell better than everyone else's! Just sayin


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## g.soutiere

joey11 said:


> So what your gonna want to do is burn your tele stuff and go back to alpining! I tele'd for five years and the minute I got on alpine skis there was no going back! It is a waste of time more of a pain in the ass and if your worried about your legs teleing is not for you! The worst part is you turn into a smug self loving freeheel idiot who thinks they are so much better than everyone cause their farts smell better than everyone else's! Just sayin


That's just a side affect of becoming an elitist tele ass####, like some kayakers or rafters. Who cares what you ride as long as you're up there having fun. Tele is easier on my knees, I ride with snowboarders, alpiners and non elitist telers. There are elitist assh###s in all snow riding gear!!! Just sayin


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## MT4Runner

I like tele because duct tape is an acceptable fashion accessory. My farts make my own eyes water....maybe I should see a doctor? :lol:


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## caseybailey

If the goal is to challenge yourself, the only choice is 3 pin bindings, skinny skis, and leather boots. The trend of beefier boots, beefier skis, and beefier bindings over the last 20 years has worked to unabashedly make telemark skiing more like alpine. Stay old school and you can prolly get a whole set-up for around $50. That said, if money is no object and if you don't want to push yourself too much, you can go top of the line telemarkfor about $3000 and a parallel turn will feel exactly like...well....a parallel turn.


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## GoodTimes

blutzski said:


> I should clarify that I meant the original poster should forget AT. He expressed an interest in finding a new challenge since Alpining was getting stale after 30 years. Like you said, with the gear currently available, AT is not much different than Alpine (thus the reason it's called Alpine Touring) and would not give him that new challenge.


Yup, that's it, I looked at AT gear and considered it....decided against it because it's not going to give me the new challenge/experience that I'm looking for. 

Just a little burned out on alpine and need it to get excited again. I guess it's a lot like my river running life. Spent the first 18 years of my life in a raft, rowing, etc....got to college and couldn't wait to experience the river in a new way...kayaked almost exclusively for the next 15 years. Now I can choose whichever method is best for the day, group, "conditions", etc.....I'd like to think I'll be there with skiing someday too.


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## Roy

It sounds to me like you're pretty much where I was about 10 years ago, when I took up tele while teaching my daughter to ski. Figured I might as well learn something new as long as I was going to be on green and blue runs. At the time, I had been alpine skiing for 30 years and snowboarding for a little over 10. I still board, but have pretty much dropped alpine since then for a number of reasons:

* The tele turn is as awesome as aficianados say it is!
* Definitely easier on the joints than alpine. No doubt about it.
* It is more of a challenge, and a way better workout. 
* I've got another 5 year old coming up through the ranks and she's just now cracking into black diamonds! 
* No, I can't go as big or as fast as I would be able to on alpines, but hucking my old body off 30 footers would be a bad idea anyway. I can tele pretty much anything I'd want to alpine at this point.
* If I want to go faster and maybe drop something in deep pow, I've always got the board for that. I still maintain that it's the best tool for deep snow when access and flats aren't issues. The tele/board combo makes for a wide range of capabilities and experiences.

Tele seems like just the ticket for what you're describing, but I'd hang onto the alpine gear for a change of pace now and then. 

I really don't get the hating between means of sliding down the mountain...


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## Mut

I didn't read this entire thread but I agree with anyone who said skip tele and buy AT.

After 17 years of tele I just went back to AT/Alpine. I bought a pair of 4 buckle Dynafit boots and dynafit bindings for the same price as a replacement tele boot would have cost. I mounted some backcountry skis and converted my Mantra's to alpine. The setup is lighter for hiking and super fun in bounds.


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## GoodTimes

Mut said:


> I didn't read this entire thread but I agree with anyone who said skip tele and buy AT.


Maybe after 15 or 20 years on tele I'll go back and look at AT. I'm switching to tele after 30+ years of alpine (burned out) and because I want something to challenge me.

AT means I'm descending essentially the same as traditional alpine


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## freeheeltim

I can't imagine not being able to make tele turns, tele presses, and tele butters while skiing. Tele binders are central to the experience of skiing to me. I make a fair amount of p-turns, too. But I can't imagine not having the freedom to do all of these things on skis. You can p-turn (quite well) on tele bindings. You can't tele turn on an AT setup. Deal breaker for me. Weight be damned. I'm not some Euro-freak crushing time records on Mont Blanc anyway.


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## Mut

GoodTimes said:


> Maybe after 15 or 20 years on tele I'll go back and look at AT. I'm switching to tele after 30+ years of alpine (burned out) and because I want something to challenge me.
> 
> AT means I'm descending essentially the same as traditional alpine


GoodTimes,
No doubt that the fact that I was away from alpine for so long made it that much more enjoyable. I loved my tele years. I haven't touched them last year or this year but I still have the old setup and will use it. My 11 year old is asking me to teach her.

Mixing it up is good. Learning a new way to ride snow can certainly keep it fun. 

Freeheeltim, i agree that the couple pounds in wieght should not really matter. But... i am a desk jockey these days. those couple pounds on my feet make a big difference on a long skinning day, especially whne I ski with my unemployed ski bum friends.


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## GoodTimes

*Should of...*

I should have gone with my original plan from the get go. So I got the Scarpa T-Race boots and decided to just pick up a "basic" pair of ski's that already had the bindings on....I'm just "learning", I'll pick up a better pair in the fall at the ski swap....just thought I'd ride out the season.

Yeah, that didn't work, I busted those bindings on day 4. So rather than put a good pair of bindings back on....I ripped the alpine bindings off my GOOD ski's and bought a pair of 22 Designs (really like that they're from Idaho too!!).

Went up again yesterday and the difference was night and day...SOOO much more power and control with a good pair of bindings and ski's. 

Pretty committed now....no more alpine set-up available!


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## catwoman

Woot! Way to take the plunge Goodtimes! 22Designs makes good stuff. What bindings did you break? How? Older design bindings just aren't made to take the power that you can dish out with a beefy boot. I just replaced my BD01 cartridges (one had completely blown out), and I am looking forward to trying them out as they are supposedly an improved design.


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## GoodTimes

catwoman said:


> Woot! Way to take the plunge Goodtimes! 22Designs makes good stuff. What bindings did you break? How? Older design bindings just aren't made to take the power that you can dish out with a beefy boot. I just replaced my BD01 cartridges (one had completely blown out), and I am looking forward to trying them out as they are supposedly an improved design.


I broke a Targa G3. I guess I can replace the cartridge....but I didn't see the point in doing that...who knows maybe the guy before me skied them super hard....or maybe it was a good excuse to get a pair of beefy bindings. 

I was just linking some turns on a moderately steep run, kinda went deep in the turn (which seems to help on steeper terrain) and the cable just blew out of the cartridge in the trailing/uphill ski.

Good stuff...havin' a blast


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## catwoman

I always hated my G3s.


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## caseybailey

This is thread just keeps getting better and better....
First off, you are still skiing. Telemark is a turn. Today's bindings that allow you to do a telemark turn would have been considered the sweetest, burliest "alpine" bindings back in the day. They would have had the most power and control of anything out there.

If you want power and control, ALPINE! Today's "alpine" bindings keep your feet firmly planted to the ski. There is no better way to control a ski (thus the reason all ski-racers use 'em.)

Now, if you want to challenge yourself and go for that soulful feel... leathers and 3 pins. They are the lightest, most comfortable, but they are definitely a challenge. With leathers, you can actually feel the ski flexing with your foot.

The characteristics that many present as their reasoning for doing the telemark turn is actually much better suited on a different set-up than the actual set-up they are on....


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## MT4Runner

catwoman said:


> I always hated my G3s.


Are they for sale? :lol:

I like my G3's!


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## catwoman

Sorry MT4runner, they are long gone. They were great bindings when they first came out, top of the line. But IMHO 22designs and BD have trounced them.

I have been itching for a pair of leathers and some three pin cables lately, mostly for hut trips and winter dog walks.


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## MT4Runner

Then there were Rivas. I hated those.

Some 3-pin Voile hardwires would be nice. Run them without the wires for touring, put the wires on for descents and use either leathers or old low Garmonts or T3's.


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## lhowemt

Good god! Combo voile's? I liked riva 2's and still like my g3. I can blow out of them, probably more than is really good and of course the riva's just stretch. I never liked the voile's because of the pins. once I got out of leather I didn't want pins anymore. I looked at all of the new bindings when I got a pair of charters two years ago. Those sob's were so heavy I didn't want heavy bindings. Lots of knee problems and hanging weight off the lift actually hurts the most. That setup cut the effort of teleing in half- so sweet! Sure wish I was skiing this year.....


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## freeheeltim

G3's. I never had a problem with the way they skied, they're a perfectly serviceable if neutral tele binding. I just broke them like they were going out of style. I broke toe bars, cables, heel pieces, heel throws, base plates, everything. Got tired of it and moved onto 22D bindings. Never broken anything on them in 7 100+ day seasons. Bomber Bishops, now that they're back, will be my next binding purchase. IMO, Bishops' lateral stiffness and power transfer are second to none, NTN included.


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## GoodTimes

caseybailey said:


> This thread just keeps getting better and better...If you want power and control, ALPINE! Today's "alpine" bindings keep your feet firmly planted to the ski. There is no better way to control a ski


But alpine is boring...at least for me it just wasn't exciting anymore.


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