# Rafting the Grand Canyon, alone ...



## leesonka (May 29, 2008)

It can be done, start your research, start getting your skills together.


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## BrianK (Feb 3, 2005)

Couple things...

Yes you can do it alone, many people have, but you need a permit which is hard to get - especially in summer. They have a lottery in February every year for the next years permit. So the permits through 2013 have already been awarded. Google grand canyon permits and you can learn all about it. You can try to get a cancellation for this summer but it is far from a guarantee.

As far as difficulty, the whitewater is not unreasonably hard, but it is not the place for a beginner on their own. You will likely get destroyed which can lead to serious issues if you are by yourself. 

However there are lots of beautiful places that are only accessible by boat that are easier to get on than the grand canyon. Do some research there are plenty of beautiful floats in and around California. 

Finally I don't think anyone should learn about whitewater on solo trips - a lot can go wrong - but that is ultimately your choice.


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## Conan Of Cimmeria (Mar 25, 2012)

All right, I will look into it more in depth. Thanks for the answers.


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## colorado_steve (May 1, 2011)

good luck flipping your boat back over by yourself

while completely possible, this sounds like a shit show waiting to happen

i advise against it


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## Kendi (May 15, 2009)

In general- boating solo (on any river) is a bad idea. 

Just sayin'


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## mtriverrat (Jan 29, 2012)

Is it possible - yes. Is it smart - no.


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## steven (Apr 2, 2004)

these last 2 posts are completely subjective. it can be totally fulfilling and safe to boat alone, raft or kayak, as long as you stay within your abilities.


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## colorado_steve (May 1, 2011)

doubtful that he will stay within his abilities


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## Osprey (May 26, 2006)

It won't be this summer but if you are serious start learning about the permit system and making a list of the skills and training you need to do something like that. Required equipment, rentals, etc. I would read some of the books by people who have done it solo in the recent past such as River by Colin Fletcher. Of course you can go back to the Powell journals, Buzz Holmstrom, etc. I believe Colin took a couple week course on how to whitewater row, river safety, etc before embarking on his solo of the entire Green/Colorado. 

I'll agree with the others, boating alone is generally considered not the best thing to do in a sport where safety is always foremost for most of us, but if you are dead set and that's how you roll you can do it with the right preparation. One good thing if the Grand Canyon during summer is what you are set on, you can plan on at least seeing several groups a day and generally will have other people to run major rapids with. It's remote but not a complete wilderness experience from that perspective. Don't take it lightly though, casualties happen every year. 

let us know what happens.


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## Doubledown (Sep 23, 2008)

Your last sentence "it's either alone or nothing" concerns me greatly. If you are serious about going down alone then I'm not sure why you would be resistant to doing your homework first. I understand your desire for solitude in such an amazing place but I don't understand your thought process to making this dream a reality. When you are awarded a permit you get to hand pick your very best friends and the number of participants that go down with you. My suggestion is to get your feet wet first and then see if this is still a potential reality for you. You can do this if you set your mind to it and ACCEPT the exponentially greater risk of going alone. Since boating is not your background yet, you cannot fully understand the risk. My other suggestion when you finally feel you are ready is to do it in the winter when true solitude is available. A summer trip would be far from 'solo' in my opinion. I did a 29 day solo trip in January 2 years ago and ran every rapid alone. The trip impacted me in way beyond my expectation. I will be going down again solo this coming January. It's the real deal down there alone in the winter. Patience my friend. All the best to you.


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## mtriverrat (Jan 29, 2012)

In response to the subjective comment - I will elaborate. I went down the Grand with some of the best rafters I've ever seen. Bad stuff can happen to even good rafters. I read something wrong and ended up swimming and it was cold - I was sure glad there was someone there with a great rope throw. I was the medical person on the trip. I stitched someone up, we had broken bones and dislocations and yes it is very hard to flip a boat by yourself. Can it be done - probably. Again is it smart - no. 

If you're determined get on a trip with others first, and then after you've gone with others see how you feel about solo.


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## Rich (Sep 14, 2006)

steven said:


> these last 2 posts are completely subjective. it can be totally fulfilling and safe to boat alone, raft or kayak, as long as you stay within your abilities.


 
Agree! Its been one of my goals for years. Have done a lot of solo day trips, but no extended overnighters. And yes, you better be prepared to reflip your own boat. The safety planning is on a whole different level.
Certainly would not do a solo as a FIRST GC trip.


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## Conan Of Cimmeria (Mar 25, 2012)

I know it's not the safest thing in the world but I accept the risks. I have done stuff like this before - camping alone in forests with no weapons, did a 15k motorcycle trip and hit the 4 corners of the country over 3 months, solo. I'm not stupid. I know I can't just jump on a raft and float down. I'm still researching. This forum and question are just a small step in finding out what I can expect. I will do my homework, reading books, talking to others more experienced and doing smaller runs. I just wanted to know if it was possible and worth putting in the effort to get to that point.

I'm still not sure if I would do it on a raft or a kayak, as long as I can hold enough supplies. And I don't want to do that trip with anyone else, but that's not saying I wouldn't take smaller trips with experienced people beforehand to prepare.

So far some problems I see are what I would eat since I'd be gone for so long. Also a raft or kayak that I can store supplies in, but not too big that I can't control. Normally when I camp I survive off fish I catch in creeks. I still have much to think about and look up.


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## upshitscreek (Oct 21, 2007)

currently, you sound like you are in la la land, dude. no trying to be a dick either. just make sure you don't approach it with your head up your ass. as my dad beat into me as a kid... there ain't no off switch on a river. no pause button. no timeouts. respect it's power immensely.

spend a couple years minimum doing ALLOT of multi-day rafting trips and know how to deal with BIG water and all the potential shitshows that can happen there well before you try managing a permit on the GC ect.

and get a big 18ft raft to act as training wheels too when/if you ever get around to running it. it'll handle fine and give you the best chance of not flipping. load it down too. you could be ever so seriously,seriously fucked with just one bad flip alone. stripped off and lost gear,lost frame,lost oars,lost food and the boat floating out of reach around the bend even. one injury and you are dependent on other parties to save your stupid ass or the full rescue from the NPS,ect.

again, not trying to be a dick but from what i read right now, you sound like a prime candidate to be a future statistic.


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## Conan Of Cimmeria (Mar 25, 2012)

Yeah I know I'm in la la land, but that's how all my crazy adventures start. I doubt I'll even have the time to do it this summer but it's a fun thought. Unless I could do it on something small I wouldn't do it anyways. I wouldn't want to do it on a 18 ft. raft. Looking at all this kayak stuff looks pretty cool though. I'd be interested in getting into it regardless of this trip. Seems pretty cool to cruise around on a kayak through some harbors or something.


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## upshitscreek (Oct 21, 2007)

have fun with that.

and,dude, it seems you don't have a clue about the permit process,as well, if you were thinking you would be able to get on it this summer at the drop of a hat. up until a few years ago, it was a 10+ year wait list. since the new rules, it's still very,very hard to get one at all. even harder with only 1 name in the lottery. plan on waiting years ,if ever, and more likely going in the very,very off season times like in the winter.


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## Ykbrown (Apr 15, 2008)

It takes years of experience to gain the kind of skill it would take for a solo trip on the GC. I went recently for my first time down the Grand and I had a few close calls... I'm not a novice boater by any means, i've been a commercial guide for 6 or 7 years as well as 100s of private trips including alot of class V(not to say I don't have a lot more to learn). I was with people equally or more experienced than myself and we had 6 rafts flip out 9 that were on the trip. One trip member, a 2 or 3 year guide on the grand itself flipped her 18' fully loaded raft on an 8/10. A Flipped raft with no one to help is nearly impossible to deal with, involving mechanical advantages, ropework, etc, and somehow recovering the boat. You may end up far away from the boat and having to get back to it. Once you do you have to get it to shore cause there aint no way you're going to flip it back over in river by your self. No easy task...

Not saying it can't be done. I am saying it can't be done this summer(for one you'll never get a permit, cause i'm going to get it first...). Give yourself some years to gain experience. Try as many rivers as you can in a safe situation cause they all have a different character. The colorado is desert big water, very different from the kern. Try doing some other sections of the colorado, some less difficult ones, to learn the desert big water. The bookwork is great, but nothing beats actual experience. 

All this being said I think its a great aspiration, I wish you the greatest of luck, just don't die dude.


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## Avatard (Apr 29, 2011)

I did my second "big water" trip two years ago on the thompson in BC. My first trip was about 12 years ago when I flipped in Granite on the Snake. 10 years of experience makes quite the difference but am still smart enough to never attempt anything solo that could result in death. Get some friends or get on someone elses permit


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## richp (Feb 27, 2005)

Hi Conan,

As noted, enough people have done solos in the Grand that this isn't a novelty. Colin Fletcher was old and gray when he did it in a 14 footer, and it was indeed his first trip down. But he had taken rowing instruction and done the entire upper basin as a warm-up, including Cataract Canyon. And the Park required that he run all the major rapids with another party. (But that is not required of most solos -- I think it was because of his age and low level of experience.)

There's no reason you couldn't build a skill set for doing it by raft between now and the time you got a hit in the lottery. The 2013 lottery was held last month, so most of those dates are out. Permits are not transferrable, but there will be secondary lotteries for unclaimed dates. Go to the Park lottery site Grand Canyon National Park - Weighted Lottery - Noncommercial River Permits (U.S. National Park Service) and start reading up on the process. 

And just so you know, if you think it's wise to go in the winter, every year there are some winter dates that are easy to pick up. But dates in the other seasons are tough to pick up that way. Last week there were 547 entries for 17 2012 dates that had become available.

No need to repeat the safety concerns of others, except to say that summer and winter are very different indeed. When it comes to other people being around to help you with a flipped boat, badly dislocated shoulder, or something like that, you may be days waiting for someone else to come by in January. And if the incident involved the boat getting away from you and you're stuck with whatever you have in your PFD pocket, it won't be fun.

You might want to spend a little time over at gcpba.org, reading up on things, and also join the GCPBA listserv.

Good luck on working this out.

Rich Phillips
Secretary, GCPBA


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## ranchman44 (Apr 16, 2009)

This is the scariest thing I have ever heard of. You not only risk your self but in the event you have to be rescued you also risk the people trying to save you . I don't mean to be rude but there seems to be a much deeper problem than just paddling alone . Part of the joy and safety of paddling is the joy of the community and fellowship. 
I have been paddling a long time and I have seen to many scary things done but in my opinion this would be the worst


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## Andy H. (Oct 13, 2003)

Conan,

You've got three main challenges ahead of you:

1) Logistical - to outfit your trip with a boat that'll either carry enough food and your gear to get down the GC. This is really big.

2) Ability - to gain the skills to take a craft down. Most people spend years gaining these skills.

3) Administrative - to get a permit for the trip. Every year thousands of people apply to a lottery for a few hundred trips.

Each of these is significant in itself. Most people who have been down solo have had many years experience mastering the first two and then paid their dues to get the required permit. Boating for most who run the GC is a lifestyle, not something they pick up like a new video game. You'll hear of novices who've rowed the GC without incident but they were with groups, and you'll hear of others who've run it solo but they weren't novices. 

You're starting from zero on all three counts. Its kind of like saying, "I want to solo climb El Capitan this summer" when you don't own a single carabiner. Or, "I want to drive solo from Cairo to Capetown next year" when your only car is a Toyata Corolla.

If you're serious there's a wealth of info here and on the GCPBA (Grand Canyon Private Boaters Association) list. Get used to having folks try to talk you out of it. Keep us posted on how this goes. 

-AH


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## carvedog (May 11, 2005)

While this doesn't sound like a good idea at first glance, and it probably isn't, this is a free country. If you feel called to do something as strongly as the Grand calls sometimes, then you should go.

I am thinking you should go small cat or kayak. Just for the ability to self rescue if nothing else. I don't know what the kayakers who self-support ( meaning no rafts along) the canyon use, but if you are willing to go full backpacker and have a food drop you should be able to do it. Go shoulder seasons so you would have to carry less warm gear. With a kayak the size you need it will be a tough roll with less than perfect technique. Start practicing now and when you have a roll on both sides with 60 lbs in your boat in current, then you have a chance. With a kayak you can swim your gear to the shore but if it is a violent exit from your boat, you will likely loose track of your paddle (a breakdown would go in your boat) and with no one else to retrieve it they become easily lost in the current and disappear. They float mind you but when you are recovering from getting throttled you may not see it. And the eddy lines will be worse than most of the rapids. 

A small cat would also have to be packed lightly. You would need to practice flipping it back upright in current by yourself....loaded. Once you can do that in strong current then you have a recovery plan that is at least possible. This may be the best from a gaining the skill set you need point of view. You will need a drysuit for either of the above options and that will add to the safety factor.

A flipped raft in current with no one else around and you should end up in an eddy eventually but there is no guarantee of when. 

I have solo boated a handful of rivers that I know well and enjoyed it. I don't think I would want to in the GC. 

The romance of the adventure fades quickly when you are being recirculated in a large hole getting pounded by your own kayak, paddle, raft, other miscellaneous gear.
Or when you have hit a wave or swam so hard that you feel like water has been blasted through your eyes and out your ears in some sort of full cranial enema. 

A few trips to the Kern will not prepare you for the Colorado. If you intensively study and get yourself trashed on all the bigger rivers you can this summer and survive. Then you may be able to think about this for next year. 

The idea that you have not been in a raft (or kayak I am assuming) and think that you be ready in a couple of months is not a good one. 

So do the research, get the gear, get ready if you must. You will know when it's time. But it's not yet.


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## Whoapiglet (Aug 23, 2010)

You sound like Chris McCandless. Best of luck to you with that.


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## AirEms (Jan 16, 2011)

This really sounds like the river version of "Into The Wild" as Whoapiglet so aptly pointed out. (I was waiting for someone to bring that up.) Conan, Please read that book! "There is nothing fucking romantic and wonderful about stumbling off into the wilderness and starving to death." (I wish I could take credit for that quote but it's from some book reviewer) You should have at least a modicum of understanding about what you wish to undertake and it seems from your posts that you do not. I wish you the best of luck in your goals but don't let your mind write checks your ass can't cash...
Long


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## brendodendo (Jul 18, 2004)

Dude, epic trip bro. Just hitch a ride to lees ferry and jump in the river with that SUP board you got at Costco. You'll make it, no problem. (kidding)

Sounds like you got lots of reading and research to do. You won't be doing it this year or possible the next 5 to 7. It's not 1955 anymore. Permits are a pain to get, especially for a "single" E ticket ride. Your from SoCal, so get the book _We Swam the Grand Canyon_ and have a good read. From there you'll find more and more info to satisfy your appetite.

I suggest the heading up to the Kern River this summer and getting your paddle on for some training.

*I found the below quote apropos to this discussion*


> "A great part of the happiness of any human being is measured by their accomplishments and nothing else. And accomplishment is not defined by somebody water transfer programs as an alte else, it's defined by yourself. You find an objective, you set a goal, you achieve it, and you're proud of yourself, and you're happy. I take pride in what we did in the Grand Canyon. I think we did a damned fine job of doing what we set out to do. Not a very significant boatman's quarterly review page 11
> You play the hand that's dealt you. That's a favorite saying of mine. But I think my only philosophy of life, and I try to teach it to my children—I think I've succeeded in teaching them—is “What's to be afraid of?”
> Fear is a healthy thing, of course, when it's protecting you from something you ought not to do. But fear is something that comes from inside. It's almost always fear of the unknown.
> You're not afraid if you know what's going to happen, in most instances. But a lot of people create too much fear for no reason, they're afraid to do something. I don't know whether they're afraid to fail, or they're afraid they're going to get hurt, or they're afraid they're going to lose money or some other thing. But I think that you examine all these alternatives, try to be as accurate in predicting it, as careful in calculating what you are going to be able to do and what you're not going to be able to do, what the consequences are, and then damn the torpedoes—Go! If I want to do something, I find out everything I can about it, and then—Why be afraid?—Go! If the other guy can do it, you can do it. It makes life much more fun."
> ...


 *Quotes from Bill Beer*


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## Conan Of Cimmeria (Mar 25, 2012)

I made a decision. I'm going to cut a tree and ride the log down. I shouldn't have any problems with flipping it back over, right? No, but I knew I'd get lots of people saying don't do it. I get the same thing when I camp. I never said I was, it was only a question. I know I'm ignorant on this sport and the trip, but you have to start learning somewhere and this forum seems like a good step.

Damn those permits. Well, normally I'm suppose to have them when I overnight in the national forests but I rarely do. I'm guessing it's not so easy to skip out on permits on the river.

Got myself signed up for a kayaking class though. I'm going to see if it's possible to kayak from LA to San Diego. That would be an awesome trip too, if possible. Probably not though, with the Marine base in between. Thanks for all the advice, I shall continue my research.


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## GC Guide (Apr 10, 2009)

Conan, I highly recommend education on the subject. If that doesn't work.... *Xanax!*


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## mikepart (Jul 7, 2009)

> Damn those permits. Well, normally I'm suppose to have them when I overnight in the national forests but I rarely do. I'm guessing it's not so easy to skip out on permits on the river.
> 
> Got myself signed up for a kayaking class though. I'm going to see if it's possible to kayak from LA to San Diego. That would be an awesome trip too, if possible. Probably not though, with the Marine base in between. Thanks for all the advice, I shall continue my research.


Unless you come up with a good lie the NPS will never issue a permit to someone with little or no river experience to run the canyon solo, and squeeking throught the canyon without a permit is next to impossible. The NPS takes it very seriously; it is not at all like camping in the national forest without paying your $5.

If you are serious, there are several options you could opt for that require much easier to obtain permits and oppertunites to resupply. If you want an epic river trip, then start with somthing like Jensen Utah to Mineral Bottom. It would give you some experience with whitewater and desert river running. I do not suggest running this solo if you don't know what you are doing either, but If you are dead set on risking you ass it would be alot more appropriate than The Grand.

I wish you luck in your endeavor, but give up on the idea of running the Grand solo as your first major willderness river trip.


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## Andy H. (Oct 13, 2003)

I think one of the things that chafes some of us at the prospect of a novice putting themselves into harm's way, like the trip you're asking about, is the prospect of involving other boaters in an unnecessary rescue. That's a prime situation in which you could endanger others. I've got a buddy whose ankle has never fully recovered from when he twisted it while helping rescue another party many years ago.


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## slamkal (Apr 8, 2009)

Someones been watching a little too much "into the Wild". 

Spoiler alert. It ends in death


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## seedubs1 (Aug 2, 2011)

You might not end up doing the grand. But there's so many great rivers out there.


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## peakone (Apr 5, 2008)

This is great.


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## Pizzle (Jun 26, 2007)

Conan the Aardvark,


Don't let this group of grouchy old curmudgeons try to freak you out. They are just worried about how you are going to transport all the alcohol and drugs by yourself and still have room for food. 
As a Marine you should not have a difficult time picking up the skill set for a float trip like the GC. But, what I am thinking is you shouldn't sell yourself short with a blah trip like the GC. Think bigger!


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## GC Guide (Apr 10, 2009)

Here is a good one Conan: And you don't need to worry about those pesky permits or getting rescued! BONUS!!

The Yangtze River
Rafting the Yangtze River, China | Adventure Travel Guide | OutsideOnline.com


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## Preston H. (Jun 25, 2008)

Pretty good thread. 

What you should do, Conan, is get a pickle bucket for storage and a big PFD and go for it just like those two Marines back in the day. I recommend a wetsuit for additional safety.

You'll want to travel only at night to avoid the permitting issues others have pointed out. During the day you can either burrow in the sand like so many of the native fauna do, or climb above the river and hunker down amongst the prickly pear and ocotillo.

And whatever you do, carry some wag bags. It is not cool to poop on the beaches.

Good luck man! Let me know if I can provide any more specific advice. I have been on four commercial trips, so I know pretty much everything about GC.


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## atg200 (Apr 24, 2007)

Camping overnight in the national forest without a weapon is excellent training for a solo Grand Canyon run. Do it 3 or 4 more times and you'll be good to go.


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## kuuskv (Nov 28, 2008)

*It seems like the trip of a lifetime...*

That would be a truly epic trip. I wish I could do it, and if I could, I wish I could do it twice; once with 13 of my closest friends and once by myself. 

My best guess is that it will take you about 10 years of planning, gaining experience, and applying for a permit to be fully prepared for a trip like this. It will also probably end up costing around $10,000 once you cover all the standard expenses and buy all the necessary equipment.

That being said, it can be done. People have done it before and been very successful. Other people have died. Seriously. 

It's a very serious undertaking, and is in no way, shape, or form similar to the kind of adventure you go on with a motorcycle or camping without a gun. The river is an uncontrollable variable that will eat you up and spit you out, if it feels like it. 

My suggestion would be to do some of the other desert floats in Utah before the Grand. There are plenty runs up there that are much easier to manage. They have easier rapids, they're shorter, and the permit system is much more lax. The scenery and solitude is very similar to the Grand.

Check out this website: American Whitewater - National Whitewater Inventory

Click on any state to see all the rivers in each state and read about some of the other desert floats. Do a few of those, buy the gear (raft, cat, kayak, etc), then scare the shit out of yourself a few times on big water (Try Cataract Canyon at high flows), and then giv'r. 

Another good resource is my favorite guide book, "Whitewater of the Southern Rockies". It's a huge book full of information about every single river and creek south of Montana. It has in-depth beta on all the desert floats. If you read the book, you can find several isolated 5-10 day trips over class I-III (easy) whitewater. There's even a run called "Desolation Canyon" - does that sounds like what you're looking for?

If you're serious about this, welcome to the addiction, we're glad to have you.


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## slamkal (Apr 8, 2009)

Run owyhee from Rome. No permit required and it wont kill you. About 60 miles and you could do that solo. Called Grand Canyon of Oregon. I think its most runnable in the next month or so.


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## Brian VN (Mar 26, 2009)

I would reccomend a swift water rescue course and lots of on water time, if not this could be you. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38fzPEq2W1U


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## seedubs1 (Aug 2, 2011)

Strait into the meat of it hahaha


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## pasta (May 17, 2006)

*Got us!*

O.K. Conan, Who are you really? I fell for it too! "HILARIOUS" !!!


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## BoscoBoater (Jul 11, 2006)

You might want to read up on other folks who tried to do this. Here are some links.

One boat couple...

oneboat




Book on topic...

Amazon.com: Canyon Solitude: A Woman's Solo River Journey Through the Grand Canyon (Adventura Books) (9781580050074): McCairen: Books




Detailed blog.....

Solo #6 - A Short Story Photo Gallery by Bruce McElya at pbase.com




You tube vid...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3vY3YTrgCQ





Trip gone bad...

What do I need to carry in a survival situation





Someone setting off on a solo trip...

Solo Colorado River Rafter at Lees Ferry | Video - Scottsdale Arizona News





Good luck with your trip bud, have fun!


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## Nessy (May 25, 2009)

You could do a rim to rim solo hike and packraft your crossing. You wouldn't get the full on rapids but would get to experience the river. Not sure about any permit required for this.


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## Randaddy (Jun 8, 2007)

Conan, which I hope is your name and/or a nod to the Governator and his fine acting career. 

I have tried to resist, but I just have to chime in here. You aren't going to run the Grand Canyon; probably ever. You are sitting in your house in Connecticut, watching TV and wishing you were a bolder man. Unfortunately, you aren't. Camping without a weapon is as adventurous as life is going to get for you, but that's okay. At least you're camping. 

I just want to be honest, Conan. To run the Grand solo you will have to develop a set of skills that requires being invited on lots of trips with others - as rafting is generally a group sport. To be invited to camp, eat, boat, and live with others you can't be an arrogant troll from Connecticut. Do you see the catch 22 here?

If I sound rude it's because it's insulting for many of us to hone these skills in places we take very seriously, all to see some jackass from Connecticut get killed trying to one up us. 

My wife and I want to do the Grand as a one boat trip one day. We've both run the trip before, twice for me, and I run rafts for a living. We decided that there's no way we're ready for a one boat trip on our 2013 permit and we might never be. I strongly advise the same caution.


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## okieboater (Oct 19, 2004)

What interests me is the number of replies this Conan gent is getting, including mine.

If this gent is for real, I suggest he get on a river with a big rapid, flip his raft, then attempt to catch it (what are the chances you come up close to the raft?) if you do catch the raft, figure out how to get the raft to shore and flipped back up (can be done solo but takes some technique) or think about survival till someone else floats by with what ever he has on his PFD.

Poaching a night camping alone in a National Forest is big time difference between poaching a solo trip down the GC. 

Having said all the above, my solo craft of choice would be a Remix XP10 loaded with freeze dry and a poop stick. The Liquid Logic guys run the GC in these boats (in a group with legal permits) on a regular basis or at least for the last couple years.


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## shoenfeld13 (Aug 18, 2009)

What you are asking is akin to saying, I am looking to solo El Cap with no experience. No one would think to ask this question on a rock climbing site, but anyone can buy a boat and start floating. It is also similar to thinking you can perform open heart surgery because you watched it on TV. Don't be a tool. Being in la la land is one thing but this is just stupid. You are pulling an Aaron Ralston, except that you will be requiring help from others *when* you get in trouble. And asking about doing it in a kayak...please. At least spend 10 minutes looking on the web before wondering why many think you are a loon. You know so little that you don't even know where to begin. Try at the beginning.


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## squeakyboater (Apr 14, 2008)

I am going to chime in with some quite relevant commentary and a wee bit of ego stroking:

It would be probably 6 years ago now that, after hiking down the Paria, I found myself watching boaters load up at Lees Ferry for a trip down the Colorado. I spent the next week hitch hiking and hiking around the South and the North Rim of the Grand Canyon. Latter in the trip, while driving over the Glen Canyon bridge, I decided that I would run the Grand Canyon. 

So, I finished driving over the bridge and drove up to a rafting outfit in Page. I asked for a job. They said, "Have you rafted before?" I replied, "No, but I am a good climber." Needless to say, I was not hired. They told me to go get some experience and come back in a few years.

So, I went back home and signed up for a guide training course. I spent the next 4 years commercially guiding in Colorado and privately boating in Idaho, Colorado, Utah and Arizona. 

Then I picked up a permit to run the Grand. It was a Jan 3rd trip. I was stoked to do it solo via a self support kayak run. However, instead, I bailed and launched on Jan. 1st with a good friend's trip. Because of the experience I had gained, I was able to boat scout every rapid besides Horn (I was getting the spins, so I needed some shore time). It was a blast, but very cruser.

HOWEVER: I did run a class V, 350 mile raft trip alone in the Yukon after my first year of guiding. It took 14 days and I was alone with no sat phone, no map and no way out other than a small village somewhere down stream. It was an amazing trip, somewhat terrifying and fairly stressful. The point of this is to say: get out and do what you want how you want to do it, but at least have enough experience to know that you are getting in over your head.

-Eric


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## thalweg (Mar 27, 2008)

Good times in the ditch:

https://vimeo.com/63549707


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## Doubledown (Sep 23, 2008)

Awesome vid!! Lava looked very different at that level. Strong work!!


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

Whoapiglet said:


> You sound like Chris McCandless. Best of luck to you with that.





shoenfeld13 said:


> You are pulling an Aaron Ralston, except that you will be requiring help from others *when* you get in trouble. And asking about doing it in a kayak...please.


Actually, after reading Ralston's book, I got the impression that he was unprepared for the risks he put himself into--he just had more luck than McCandless. 



Conan Of Cimmeria said:


> Got myself signed up for a kayaking class though. I'm going to see if it's possible to kayak from LA to San Diego. That would be an awesome trip too, if possible. Probably not though, with the Marine base in between. Thanks for all the advice, I shall continue my research.


Your current wilderness experience would probably relate to a long sea kayak trip than it would a long whitewater trip. Seriously.

Sea kayaking takes some training and some situational awareness...but far less than whitewater. Stuff happens out on the ocean, but generally not with the same rapidity as on the river. Potential severity is equal to or greater on the ocean.



Andy H. said:


> I think one of the things that chafes some of us at the prospect of a novice putting themselves into harm's way, like the trip you're asking about, is the prospect of involving other boaters in an unnecessary rescue. That's a prime situation in which you could endanger others. I've got a buddy whose ankle has never fully recovered from when he twisted it while helping rescue another party many years ago.


Conan, I have to underscore what Andy H has said. There is an ethic on the river that we help others in need. Your desire to do it solo and unprepared flies in the face of our river culture. That is a prime reason you're getting so much flak.

A solo wilderness or sea trip will probably not even get noticed by other people out in the area. On the river, we're always looking out for each other.



squeakyboater said:


> I am going to chime in with some quite relevant commentary and a wee bit of ego stroking:


Actually, I was thinking of your winter MF Salmon trip report to show him what kind of solo experience he could have on the river. Large consequences, lots of solitude, but not quite the same risks from the water (hypothermia, not so much flush drowning).


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## GC Guide (Apr 10, 2009)

THAT! Is a great video! Well done!


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## swiftwater15 (Feb 23, 2009)

Hook, line and sinker.


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## fdon (Jul 23, 2008)

To the op ( if you accomplished your goal): Been there, done that. Would do it again. IMO, January is the primo month for a solo GC due the availability of permits and the higher water levels (more options in some of the drops). My friends speak to me in the same tone as the naysayers here. Regardless, its a fine badge.

ps: my favorite camp/hike on that adventure and memory was at Racetrack which has been so troubling to me since last autumns accidental drowning near there. RIP dear fellow spirit.


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## swiftwater15 (Feb 23, 2009)

*Trolls and Buzz Holmstrom*

I think the OP was a troll, and a good one. But it is interesting to think of the concept after reading about folks like Amos Burg or Buzz Holmstrom. If they posted today -- "can I solo the Grand Canyon in a crappy wooden boat, or sole canoe the pre-dam Columbia from BC to the Mouth with no:
wetsuit,drysuit, gore tex socks, yeti cooler, water filter, solar charging station, dry bag, barney bag, WAGG Bag, dry box, boom box, spice box, GPS -indexed waterproof map, Eco-safe, pee bucket, WRSI helmet, serrated knife with a blunt tip, 11 mm static rescue line, 27 kn pullies, locking carabiners, prussik around the waist of a rescue vest, sat phone, firepan, partner stove, kitchen mat, fire blanket, combo table-backboard, oar rights, urethane coated polyester base fabric in puncture-proof bazillion denier, a folding chair, roll-a-cot or micro-brew in a fracking can?"

We would probably say, "O.k.,but first you have to take guide training, swiftwater rescue training, and wilderness first responder training, then get a dual law degree in law and statistics to master the permit system."

Screw it, it's easier to sit on my ass and read about other people's real adventures. Along that line, I recommend Vince Welch's books on Holmstrom and Amos Burg..


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