# Multiday Gear



## Randaddy (Jun 8, 2007)

Overnight with a kayak?

It can't be done.


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## Snowhere (Feb 21, 2008)

Randaddy said:


> Overnight with a kayak?
> 
> It can't be done.


I guess no-one told that to those guys that did a multy overnight on Cherry Creek in Cali! 

Or to me when I did week long trips in Alaska, solo! To be fair, on my Alaska adventures, I cached supplies at the halfway point on the fly in.

I used a whisperlite stove, small, light, and boils h2o fast. Plus you can always get white-gas anywhere.


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## Randaddy (Jun 8, 2007)

Overnight = cases of beer.

You just did a long day trip with a nap.


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## xkayaker13 (Sep 30, 2006)

-you probably don't need both a bivy and a tarp. If you bring a tarp, using a throw rope works well to create better shelters. 
-crocs are nice to have at camp; they're light and easy to pack because the material is so flexible.
-wrap duct tape around your paddle shaft, you never know when your going to need it. 
- make sure that you have more than one water purification system in your group. if someone swims and you loose your purification systems then your group will be hurting.
-bitchathane is essential, especially if you're using a broken boat (all 7 overnighters I have ever done, have been with broken boats. I wouldn't recommend it; can complicate situations where you are tight on time.)
-if you're going to be in a remote area that is unfamiliar to you then you need a topo map or gps.


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## Snowhere (Feb 21, 2008)

Randaddy said:


> Overnight = cases of beer.
> 
> You just did a long day trip with a nap.


On lightweight trips you leave the beer home and instead bring the flask. Usually after paddling all day, and ducking bear and moose, you are ready to sleep as soon as you finish eating. That and some local grown will suffice nicely! :mrgreen:

Good call on the water purification, I carried a filter and iodine tablets as back up. I would prefilter the water through a cloth before sending it through the filter, that keeps the filter from clogging up as quickly.


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## Chip (Apr 7, 2007)

Shit yes you can overnight with a 'yak. I've done 2-3 day trips in subfreezing weather (in the Winds) with a fanny pack, using an ultralight bag and a bivy sack. The only lack was food— I was usually pretty hungry when I came out. 

Cookery takes some thought. There are several small/light stoves, like the 3 oz. Snow Peak and the MSR SuperFly (with an ultralight hanging kit and titanium windscreen available). Get a lightweight cookset that the stove (and/or a gas cartridge) will fit inside. Another compact option (for warmer weather) is a Trangia alcohol burner with their 3-piece windscreen/pot stand— works well for boiling water and heating up soup, stew, Thai noodles, etc. I've tried solid-fuel cookers like the Esbit stove: not recommended. 

Whatever you pick, get used to the stove & cookset at home before trusting it on a trip. 

The other trick is packing stuff inside larger stuff, so there's no wasted space. Also stowing your gear in the right order so the things you need first are on top, etc. 

I enjoy the challenge of ultralight trips and also the relative freedom of movement. 

Chip


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## WyoPadlr1 (May 5, 2005)

*Multi-day gear.......*

Self-support multi-days are the shit. The MAIN reason to go kayaking, in my book. With that said:

Good dry bags that you trust. Otherwise, it's gonna be a miserable trip.
I have NEVER carried a stove on a multi-day, especially in the Rockies and Sierras. Unless you're going on some trip where you can't have fires, it and the fuel are are waste of space and weight. You ever been on a river with NO driftwood? Except for the Grand, it's not likely. I use a small aluminum coffee pot with a steel hanging handle (see attached pic). It fits in my stern on the side opposite my drain plug. You can cook just about anything in it except fish, and it boils water fast when hung directly over the fire. The freeze-dried stuff you can buy is pretty tasty, and you can supplement that with fish that you catch, cooked in tinfoil directly in the fire (don't forget the superlight fishing gear, foil and some lemon-pepper). Forget the stove, carry more food and a beer or two, go rustic.
I agree with some of the others: a super lightweight tarp rules, stretched over your throwbag line. I have Integral Designs sil-nylon 8x12 and it weighs feathers. Lots of different setup possibilities. Bivy sacks don't weigh any less, and you can't sit under them comfortably in the rain. Heck, if it's an easy trip, though, it's nice to have a super-light tent to keep the bugs out.
Super-light rain/wind jacket and pants, to go over any layers of fleece you bring. Really makes a dfference in the warmth factor. I tried sitting around in my drysuit a couple of times on CA trips, and it just sucks being in those gaskets in camp.
Ultralight ThermaRest, RidgeRest, etc. Good sleep is key to good paddling the next day. They don't weigh anything, and they don't necessarily need to go inside your dry bags.
Drugs, plain and simple. Anything you can get your hands on for your first aid kit that is stronger than over the counter stuff. Percs, Vicodin, Valium, etc. You can reduce almost any dislocated shoulder with a combo of Percocet/Valium (there's a great article on it in the AMA Journal). Sometimes, they can then paddle out. Or, if you're going somewhere where an accident means leaving someone who is injured on a beach while help is reached, pain management can go a long way toward a successful outcome. There are others, but you get the idea.
Personal clothing and gear preferences vary a lot. It all depends on how hard the run is and how cold it's gonna get in camp. I've done 15 Box trips, and at least 12 Middle Feathers, trips in Mexico, New Zealand, etc, and the load has varied a little bit every time. The harder the run, any difficult portaging, etc, will really make you consider every ounce that goes in the boat.
You'll figure it out, especially starting with less difficult trips first. We had one guy on a Box trip that had never done an overnighter, and he just showed up at the put-in with his boat all packed and ready to go: he brought his hiking boots, a two-man tent, blue jeans, cotton underwear........ At least with all that weight he never got stuck in any big holes, but he sure was slow on the portages.:twisted:


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## TakemetotheRiver (Oct 4, 2007)

Where are you going? I'll carry your shit. You buy the beer.

But seriously, you can easily boil water in your nalgene bottle (then boil sealed food, make coffee, etc.) as long as you are diligent and bring a little bailing wire to support it.


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## Chip (Apr 7, 2007)

Good points, the result of experience. 

I've got an Integral Designs SIL shelter (shaped tarp) that packs small— kept me dry on the way to Milford Sound, NZ, with rain all night, every night. But for cold weather I like a bivy sac, at times with a teeny little SIL tarp pitched over my head, so I can sit up to read, cook, etc. 

For runs where open fires aren't allowed (except in pans) there's a stove that burns driftwood, moose poop, old fire charcoal— whatever. 

http://www.zzstove.com

I've got both the original sort and a titanium ultralight. They have a wee fan that runs on AA batteries. I built a little solar battery charger into the lid of a waterproof ditty box— NiMH batteries are the ticket for the stove and a headlamp. Given a bit of sun (it doesn't take much) you could go forever without carrying fuel. 

Chip


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## New Jersey Surfer (Aug 15, 2008)

MacGyver, do you have a job or a wife? Or do you just build shit? I have some duct tape and gum- doin the Big Ditch- what else should I take? I am so jealous.



Chip said:


> Good points, the result of experience.
> 
> I've got an Integral Designs SIL shelter (shaped tarp) that packs small— kept me dry on the way to Milford Sound, NZ, with rain all night, every night. But for cold weather I like a bivy sac, at times with a teeny little SIL tarp pitched over my head, so I can sit up to read, cook, etc.
> 
> ...


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## milo (Apr 21, 2004)

*.....you forgot a most important piece of gear.......*

....am i the only boater who carries a lightweight fleecy pillow case....then just put an airbag inside.....keep the hose handy so you can adjust the "pillow".....makes a huge diff in how i sleep....i also bring valerian root capsules....just in case you are starting to NOT sleep.....they work, with no ill effects next day.....feeling not rested or tired will catch up to you on harder shit.....also i bring a snake bite kit if applicable.....don't know if anybody stated this either but,......try to keep all the heavyshit closest to you seat...the boat willl behave better...jrranger420cb...


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## Chip (Apr 7, 2007)

New Jersey Surfer said:


> MacGyver, do you have a job or a wife? Or do you just build shit? I have some duct tape and gum- doin the Big Ditch- what else should I take? I am so jealous.


I work at home— writer/editor— and tinkering is my relief from pounding a keyboard. Having worked on outdoor books, I've tested and reviewed lots of gear, and enjoy playing with stoves and boat frames, etc. (and writing about it, obviously). 

I've heard of MacGyver (TV show?) don't get it otherwise. Don't watch TV— maybe why I have time to build frames. 

cheers,
Chip


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## caseybailey (Mar 11, 2008)

Randaddy said:


> Overnight = cases of beer.
> 
> You just did a long day trip with a nap.


Day trips without beer????? And you call yourself a rafter? Blasphemy I say!


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## spartankayaker (Aug 28, 2006)

*Thanks for the Info*

Thanks to everyone who responded... I really appreciate it!


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## Randaddy (Jun 8, 2007)

caseybailey said:


> Day trips without beer????? And you call yourself a rafter? Blasphemy I say!


Good point. Kayaking doesn't even work for self-supported day trips!


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## Redpaddle (Jan 10, 2007)

*stove*

I built a small alcohol burning stove like this:

Beverage-can stove - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

and love the heck out of it. Use a foil windscreen and the fuel consumption is real low. Small, light and practically free. I have had some trouble finding denatured alcohol in foreign countries though...


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## caspermike (Mar 9, 2007)

Beverage-can stove - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

SICK. im going to try and make one sometime this week and hopefully not blow something up seems simple enough.


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## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

Redpaddle said:


> I built a small alcohol burning stove like this:
> 
> Beverage-can stove - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> and love the heck out of it. Use a foil windscreen and the fuel consumption is real low. Small, light and practically free. I have had some trouble finding denatured alcohol in foreign countries though...


You realize you don't need _denatured _alcohol to make that work, buy a bottle of alcohol (everclear) and it should work just as well. Denaturing only makes it poison, so it is not sold as an alcoholic beverage.


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## Redpaddle (Jan 10, 2007)

*stove fuel*

True, but the BTUs are different too. Reportedly, denatured alcohol burns better. I have burned white gas, kerosene and epoxy thinner in the thing and all will produce flame, but not to the same efficiency and soot-free flame as denatured alcohol. Everclear has its "multipurpose" advantages, but I would rather drink whiskey anyway.


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## bobbuilds (May 12, 2007)

But seriously, you can easily boil water in your nalgene bottle (then boil sealed food, make coffee, etc.) as long as you are diligent and bring a little bailing wire to support it.

is this true, i once heard you could say... make spaggetti amd meatballs put it in a nalgine bottle and add it to a pot of boiling water to heat it up later, nalgine co. denied this statment in an email i sent.. any thoughts?


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## KSC (Oct 22, 2003)

bobbuilds said:


> is this true, i once heard you could say... make spaggetti amd meatballs put it in a nalgine bottle and add it to a pot of boiling water to heat it up later, nalgine co. denied this statment in an email i sent.. any thoughts?


endocrine disruptors


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## bobbuilds (May 12, 2007)

makes sense, i googled it, so... no


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## WyoPadlr1 (May 5, 2005)

Wait, you're trying to cook IN a plastic Nalgene bottle over a stove or an open fire????????? Why???? Seems like subjecting a Nalgene to that kind of heat with water or wet food in it would just release toxic chemicals into whatever's held in the bottle, or just risk melting the Nalgene completely.
My aluminum "billy" pot (converted Coleman coffee pot) weighs less than an empty 1 liter Nalgene already. It's been on hundreds of fires & stoves and still going strong. If I went on a self-support that specifically requires stoves and no open fires, I have an MSR Superfly that fits inside of it along with 2 fuel cells and Lexan utensils. That all fits in a large-sized ziploc to keep the stove dry and protected, with no added weight. 
Seems like maybe the new "JetBoil" or MSR "Reactor" style stove/pot systems are the lightest and most effecient ways to go if you either can't have a fire or don't want to try cooking on open fires. Either those, or you go the "Zip Stove" route that Chip posted about, that runs on all kinds of naturally available fuels. 
I'm really curious if anybody knows of a river trip that is generally done by self-support kayaks only that prohibits open fires?? (meaning the harder, more remote multi-day runs that are either un-raftable or it's just super difficult to find rafters good enough to run them) Curious to know if there are any.


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## bobbuilds (May 12, 2007)

i once thought you could add a nalgine bottle full of cold spagetti to a pot of boiling river water to heat it up then eat from the bottle.


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## WyoPadlr1 (May 5, 2005)

bobbuilds said:


> i once thought you could add a nalgine bottle full of cold spagetti to a pot of boiling river water to heat it up then eat from the bottle.


Ahhh, I see. But, then you're carrying the weight of wet spaghetti, sauce, and an additional Nalgene inside your kayak. I'm always trying to shave every pound/ounce possible on a self-support trip, especially if there's hard Class V, hiking, and/or portaging involved. That photo of me in the earlier post is after hiking 8 miles mostly uphill with boat and overnight gear. Wet spaghetti would have been left in the car.:roll:


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