# Ruby Horesthief permits?



## cschmidt1023 (Jan 27, 2015)

Looks pretty straightforward on the website. The $6 is a one time fee and the nightly rate depends on your group size.

The good news is any more than 2 nights on RH is too many. If you do it right and get an early start that's still 1 full day and 2 3/4 days. I think this is their first season using Rec.gov but you should be able to see which sites are already taken and just submit the ones you want.

I would be willing to bet the customer service is M-F and even if it says it isn't you will have better luck tomorrow.


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## zbaird (Oct 11, 2003)

Sad to say it is per night.


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## skipowpow (Mar 1, 2011)

cschmidt1023 said:


> The good news is any more than 2 nights on RH is too many.



I'd have to disagree. A layover day is a great way to enjoy this section. Rec.gov makes it difficult to do this. I was very much in favor of going to an online system, but some tweaks to their process should happen. 


Sent from my iPhone using Mountain Buzz


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## CO14 (Nov 12, 2003)

Granted RH is not a whitewater rafters dream, but it is beautiful and it is a great place to start the kids out adventuring on a desert river. Why give me a hard time if I want to spend three nights enjoying the place with my kids? 

My point was- the website is not very intuitive. After you have used it a few times it probably gets better. It is very difficult to look at availability of campsites over a week to plan an extended trip. Also I was really surprised by the cost. I am totally on board with $56 per trip, but $56 per night does seem excessive. I just wanted to see if that was others experience as well, or if I had somehow signed up wrong and was paying three times too much.


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## neendownstream (Feb 16, 2016)

If you make the reservation for three nights at once, I think it's $50 per night and you get charged the $6 fee just once. Yeah $156 is a lot for three nights on the river, unless you have a big group to split the cost with. If you aren't going over the weekend you can make the reservation for all three nights at once. The weekend spots are taken quickly and probably need to be booked separately as they become available. 

Camping Information

This will describe the campsites rather than having to do research for each site. Hope that helps!


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## Paco (Aug 3, 2007)

I haven't dealt with RHT since it went Rec.gov, and had a similar question to Paul B's. Looking at the website, it says that children under 16 are free. I'm assuming that that means that I can book a trip with 5 adults and x number of children and pay the fee for a small (1-5 person) trip. Anyone know for sure if that's the case?

Also, any idea if I can book a 3 night trip, and have people launch on day 2 and meet me (on my permit)?
I know on most permitted rivers that's a no-go, but it is Ruby Horsethief, and I couldn't find the typical verbiage about groups always being together on the rules and regs page.

And lastly- if I want weekend dates, I need to book hem one day at a a time as they become available?


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## markhusbands (Aug 17, 2015)

I don't know for sure, but I would interpret the "kids camp for free" to mean that up to five adults = $20 fee. It also does appear that you would have to book as the days become available, so that'd mean two days in a row for a two nighter.


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## markhusbands (Aug 17, 2015)

"Dogs are considered part of your permit's group total and fees are assessed for dogs just as they are for people."

And I guess that this means dogs under 16 are also allowed to camp for free.


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## BLM Ruby Horsethief (Dec 21, 2011)

The $6 is charged per permit. If you book several nights at one time you are charged the $6 plus your nightly camping fee. If you book each site individuality you are charged $6 each time because the system views it as mailing several permits.

Kids 16 and under are always free, if you have 5 over the age of 17 and 20 under 17 your fee is $20 per camp per night. There is a cap of 25 bodies (including dogs) per site, some sites are smaller though. 

Your group does need to launch together and stay together on the river. This is a stipulation on the permit and if you have a group that launches the next day, you could potentially get a ticket for breaking a permit stipulation. 

If there are any more questions, I would be happy to clarify! 

Alex Martin 
BLM GJFO 
970-244-3025 
or email- [email protected]


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## climbdenali (Apr 2, 2006)

Hey Alex,
Thanks for the info. To be clear, dogs do count as "adults" for purposes of counting whether we pay for a small group or large one?

Also, I was wondering when the permit stipulation that groups "h. launch, travel (stay within visual contact) and camp together as a group" went into place. I ask because I called in last year and spoke with _two different people_ who told me that a couple in our group could meet us at camp after launching later.

I understand the reasoning for this on rivers with whitewater (for safety), and where camp-jumping is a concern, but seeing as how day trips do not require a permit for Ruby, why can't a person launch as a day trip and join another group with a permit to stay overnight? Just curious what the reasoning behind that reg is. Perceived crowding?
Thanks,
David


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## co_bjread (Oct 26, 2004)

I think you are mixing up two separate pieces of info. 
1. You determine your nightly camping fees based on the number of adults older than 16. Adults has nothing to do with dogs.
2. You determine your maximum group size based on the number of heartbeats in your group. Dogs count against your heartbeat total. So ,while the dog does not affect your nightly camp fees, it does reduce the number of people you can have on your permit.


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## markhusbands (Aug 17, 2015)

I am pretty sure that is the way the fees and group totals are assessed as well, but you must admit, quotes like the one I posted earlier, directly from the rec.gov website, don't reduce the ambiguity:

"Dogs are considered part of your permit's group total and fees are assessed for dogs just as they are for people."

I guess you'd say I don't have a dog in this fight since I don't have a dog.


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## cschmidt1023 (Jan 27, 2015)

Last year I had to leave a dog at home to avoid spending 50 a night vs 20.

I had no idea 5 adults and 20 kids would make equal or less of an impact than 4 adults and 2 dogs. The numbers definitely could use some adjusting they are pretty ridiculous.


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## gcbighorn (Aug 12, 2016)

Having raised children on the river the past 30 years only to now see them not be able to obtain a multiday permit on ANY river, saddens me. Folks now taking their kids down Ruby Horsethief will be bringing up a new generation that will be exponentially more restricted in their abilities to get on a multi day trip. Too many people in the world now that can touch their device at 7:59: 59 AM to snag a Rec.gov cancellation, and the odds in ALL pre season river lotteries are now insanely stacked against you. So relish your time together in Ruby Horsethief because that will the ONLY place you can go in the future....on a weekday in a cooler time of year, that is!


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