# Looking for fellow Bozeman/Gardiner/SW MT boaters



## Katweena (May 10, 2011)

My boyfriend and I live in Bozeman are 21-22 year olds and have a raft and rig. We like to have fun and have experience on III - some V rapids. We don't mind traveling to go raft a new river, no matter the distance. We plan on going on the Owyhee for MSU spring break and are open to meeting new boaters if anyone wants to go, or later this summer. Neither of us have done the Gallatin, Yankee Jim, or Bear Trap and would prefer going with some people who have. Send me a message if you would like to meet and go boating with us!


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## glenn (May 13, 2009)

Katweena said:


> My boyfriend and I live in Bozeman are 21-22 year olds and have a raft and rig. We like to have fun and have experience on III - some V rapids. We don't mind traveling to go raft a new river, no matter the distance. We plan on going on the Owyhee for MSU spring break and are open to meeting new boaters if anyone wants to go, or later this summer. Neither of us have done the Gallatin, Yankee Jim, or Bear Trap and would prefer going with some people who have. Send me a message if you would like to meet and go boating with us!


Welcome to Bozeman. When things get a little warmer I'll be happy to run any of those with you.


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## montuckyhuck (Mar 14, 2010)

Welcome. I will vouch for Glenn being a solid boater. If you make it north to missoula drop me a line. I guide during the summer and would be happy to give you flow updates or go run the lochsa with some shuttle friends.


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## carvedog (May 11, 2005)

Katweena said:


> My boyfriend and I live in Bozeman are 21-22 year olds and have a raft and rig. We like to have fun and have experience on III - some V rapids. We don't mind traveling to go raft a new river, no matter the distance. We plan on going on the Owyhee for MSU spring break and are open to meeting new boaters if anyone wants to go, or later this summer. Neither of us have done the Gallatin, Yankee Jim, or Bear Trap and would prefer going with some people who have. Send me a message if you would like to meet and go boating with us!


When is MSU spring break? I have been invited on an April lower Owyhee. Sounds like a few threes and maybe a couple three pluses. Water level should be moderate. No 20K cfs runoff this year. 
Might be room for more.


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## Katweena (May 10, 2011)

MSU spring break is March 12-16. My boyfriend has previously done the lower Owyhee and it seems that Nuisance rapid is the only rapid that needs any sort of technical skill. It squeezes a bit in that area but nothing intimidating. We're taking a first time boater and don't want to scare her socks off


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## DasBoatSehrGut (Feb 14, 2012)

Hey Katweena, this is Brad from the B school. I developed a kayaking habit last summer and am looking forward to getting out this summer. I haven't paddled around here yet, so I'm game to go exploring with ya'll once the time comes.


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## caspermike (Mar 9, 2007)

Bozeman boater here always game to slay


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## Katweena (May 10, 2011)

Sweet I'm getting stoked for this summer! I suppose we outta invest in some thwarts and paddles for the boat before the time comes


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## Katweena (May 10, 2011)

Hey Montana Boaters! Our spring break plans have changed and we're going on West Water instead. This is awesome, except that there isn't a shop that rents fire pans in the area. If anyone has one lying around that they would like to sell, or rent to very trustworthy and responsible people, we are in DESPERATE need. Please message me if you are willing to help us out, we would be fine paying a rental fee, or bartering for the future.

Some other things that we would like to buy or rent, that are not as important as the fire pan, but would still help out include: dry tops?, splash gear, any neoprene, booties, gloves, wet suits, webbing, a table, lanterns, sleeping pads, and ammo cans. 

Thanks for looking!!


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## caspermike (Mar 9, 2007)

The barn has most of the things you are looking for stop in sometime


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## Katweena (May 10, 2011)

Yeah, I'm actually renting a boat from the barn. Pretty sweet set up there. Do you know if they have fire pans? Its not listed online. I'll come by tomorrow or Tuesday.


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## caspermike (Mar 9, 2007)

Store closed Monday but my buddy Brit works tuesday can help you out


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

How was your West Water spring break?



Katweena said:


> Neither of us have done the Gallatin, Yankee Jim, or Bear Trap and would prefer going with some people who have. Send me a message if you would like to meet and go boating with us!


I haven't hit Yankee Jim or the Gallatin since '07, but want to get back down there--and also run Bear Trap. Hoping to be down there either the weekend of June 15-16 or 22-23.

Locals, how are flows in mid-June for 8yo and 10yo kids? I've taken my daughters on the Middle Fork of the Flathead (III-)this time of year, but won't take them on the Alberton Gorge (III+/IV-) until later in the summer.


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## glenn (May 13, 2009)

Beartrap has 1 rapid, kitchen sink, that is a big step up at all levels from anything on the alberton. Everything else will be fine if you can read water. I would speculate you will be able to find something on the yellowstone suitable but gallatin is a gamble. Could be too high, could be too low, could be right on the money. I'm guessing on the money or too low for this year and since the water is starting to flow right now.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

glenn said:


> Beartrap has 1 rapid, kitchen sink, that is a big step up at all levels from anything on the alberton. Everything else will be fine if you can read water. I would speculate you will be able to find something on the yellowstone suitable but gallatin is a gamble. Could be too high, could be too low, could be right on the money. I'm guessing on the money or too low for this year and since the water is starting to flow right now.


That sounds great!!

Does Kitchen Sink have technical maneuvering within the rapid (like many on the Lochsa) or is it a one-shot, run the green tongue--just big?

I won't take my girls on the Lochsa yet because it's so continuously intense. They get to run the couple miles of II-III from Wilderness Gateway to Fish Creek.
I'm not quite ready for them on the Gorge at higher flows because it's got some big hydraulics at Tumbleweed and below Fang and I'm not ready for them to swim them.

I'm good at reading water--but nobody's perfect!
I'm not afraid of a flip or having them swim--once--if it's in a good pool. I'd like for them to continuously progress, and I don't want to terrify them!!


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## glenn (May 13, 2009)

MT4Runner said:


> That sounds great!!
> 
> Does Kitchen Sink have technical maneuvering within the rapid (like many on the Lochsa) or is it a one-shot, run the green tongue--just big?
> 
> ...


Kitchen sink has 3 mandatory holes the first one is a big drop the next two aren't so bad but they have the potential to ruin your moves. The top is continuous and you need to line up well for the big drop. The very bottom below the 2 holes has lots of pinning rocks and you need to make solid moves. It's a big rapid and a solid IV. There is an easy scouting trail that runs along the whole rapid, so if you are rowing you can run it solo while the kiddos walk. If that's not an option then maybe you can round up some kayakers and they will hike back up to run it in a raft with you. This isn't nice and easy pool swimming if someone gets dropped in. It looks violent and rocky. 

The other two rapids are straight forward. Everything else is II and very scenic.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

glenn said:


> Kitchen sink has 3 mandatory holes the first one is a big drop the next two aren't so bad but they have the potential to ruin your moves. The top is continuous and you need to line up well for the big drop. The very bottom below the 2 holes has lots of pinning rocks and you need to make solid moves. It's a big rapid and a solid IV.


My kind of water! 



> There is an easy scouting trail that runs along the whole rapid, so if you are rowing you can run it solo while the kiddos walk. If that's not an option then maybe you can round up some kayakers and they will hike back up to run it in a raft with you. This isn't nice and easy pool swimming if someone gets dropped in. It looks violent and rocky.


Perfect. I'm OK with a solo run, and a safe hike sounds like just the ticket for my wifey and kiddos.

I sincerely appreciate the beta.


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## montana_field (Mar 28, 2011)

Have done the Beartrap numerous times. The Kitchen Sink is the trickiest rapid in Montana at 2700 - 3800 cfs. Only Spruce Park series on Middle Fork Flathead comes close to this. Above 3800 Herbs Rock is covered sufficiently


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## Lexi-bell (May 15, 2009)

MT4Runner said:


> My kind of water!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Just a heads up the hike around may be out of the river but is by no means without danger for the wife and kids, this area is well known for a large population of rattlesnake and poison ivy. Also keep into consideration kitchen sink rapid is very close to the middle of a run with no road accessibility and no mobile phone reception, go with an experienced group.


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## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

You should also scout whitehorse your first time. If they aren't up to the lochsa then whitehorse will be a wakeup. The walkaround the sink is a hiking trail with easy access above and below, it doesn't get much better than that. If anything on the gorge seems big (where it is all point and shoot) then even the easy but technical move through green wave may be a challenge, but not a big one. Keep in mind the lead in to the sink is nohing to sneeze at too, esp because of he need to line up, prepare for the sweeping hydraulics coming out of the toilet bowl and herb'srock, and then not get pushed over to the shark fin rocks on the left. Pm me your email, i have a sketch of the rapid (w descriptions) that is excellent that i can send you


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

lhowemt said:


> You should also scout whitehorse your first time. If they aren't up to the lochsa then whitehorse will be a wakeup. The walkaround the sink is a hiking trail with easy access above and below, it doesn't get much better than that. If anything on the gorge seems big (where it is all point and shoot) then even the easy but technical move through green wave may be a challenge, but not a big one. Keep in mind the lead in to the sink is nohing to sneeze at too, esp because of he need to line up, prepare for the sweeping hydraulics coming out of the toilet bowl and herb'srock, and then not get pushed over to the shark fin rocks on the left. Pm me your email, i have a sketch of the rapid (w descriptions) that is excellent that i can send you


Hmm...it's sounding less and less like this is a good idea for the kiddos.
I'm just now ready with their swimming skills and confidence to have them on the Alberton Gorge in mid to late June flows. They've only done it in the past in late July and August.

I would love to see the sketch, though, I'll keep Bear Trap on my near-future bucket list!


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## Katweena (May 10, 2011)

MT4Runner said:


> How was your West Water spring break?
> 
> It was really awesome!! It was my first time reading and running, although I was happy to be sandwiched between two awesome guides. Almost wrecked it in Skull but made it without a flip, we were the exciting boat  It was a level everyone should experience on WW, so much fun and allows you to actually enjoy your scenery in the canyon without washed out rapids.
> 
> ...


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

We're headed that way the 23rd-24th. 
Maybe meet up for a Gallatin run and a Yankee Jim run?


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## Billy Goat (Feb 3, 2011)

Kitchen Sink is worth the hike in to see at 4700. It's runnin'. Cheers to the fool that runs it


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## caspermike (Mar 9, 2007)

Beartrap Canyon of the Madison 4800cfs on Vimeo
Good reference 4800 in vid


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## Monto (May 15, 2012)

or you could try it like this... Drift Boat Whitewater, Kitchen Sink Rapid - YouTube


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

Is it just me or did the bow paddler save their collective bacon a couple of times?!?


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## Monto (May 15, 2012)

I don't think its just you


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## catflipper (Jun 22, 2011)

MT4Runner said:


> Is it just me or did the bow paddler save their collective bacon a couple of times?!?


He was the only one doing anything!


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## montana_field (Mar 28, 2011)

Billy Goat said:


> Kitchen Sink is worth the hike in to see at 4700. It's runnin'. Cheers to the fool that runs it


Herbs is covered at this level and you can even go right of it. Done it twice at 5k


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

Going the "discretion is the better part of valor" route and skipping the Madison this year. 

What's the thought on Gallatin flows for this weekend vs. next?
Advanced Hydrologic Prediction Service: Great Falls: Gallatin River near Gallatin Gateway
Should be above 2,000cfs this weekend.
1,500cfs or so next weekend. Too low? Good?
I'd like to find some good III-III+ rafting water for my girls, or mellow II water for kayaking with them.

Shawn


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## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

Wait, you just had your kids on the lochsa? Beartrap at summer flows isn't any worse, wait until it drops to 1600 as long as they walk the sink. Scout whitehorse and the sink. As i've said the sink walk is easy, and there's got to be a rr walk around whitehorse also? Scout is rl on wh.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

Kids were just on the Lochsa from Wilderness Gateway to Fish Creek last weekend at 12k. My youngest got flipped in her little kayak and took a swim in the wavetrain on river left below C-loop and did well. She took it in stride and was more upset that she lost her paddle than that she swam, and wasn't really afraid.

I finally got my wife in the raft on the Lower this weekend at 9,000cfs. We had a clean run, and that was still plenty for her.

I'm not ready, though, to chance a swim in anything bigger yet. I don't want to push it and have any of them afraid of whitewater. The girls are young and we have years and years ahead of us.


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## glenn (May 13, 2009)

Gallatin flows should be good. Probably won't get back above 3K but you never know. It keeps getting cold and refreshing the snow pack. If the temps get really warm you could see a peak. 3K or maybe 3.5 is the commercial cutoff for below the bridge. It's still completely runnable but mistakes are easier to make and more consequential in terms of how far downstream you are traveling. 

If you wait you could hit the sweet spot where Beartrap is at summer flows or almost summer flows (1500-2200) and the Gallatin is at manageable and fun flows as well (1200-2500). With a portage of kitchen sink Beartrap is definitely an easier run than the lower lochsa at 12K, but it has rocks so almost by default it is more technical.

Also if you wait until the water is actually gone and then come to do beatrap I would be happy to show you down. It's hard for me to get in there when I know it's always got water and the other goods don't.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

glenn said:


> Gallatin flows should be good. Probably won't get back above 3K but you never know. It keeps getting cold and refreshing the snow pack. If the temps get really warm you could see a peak. 3K or maybe 3.5 is the commercial cutoff for below the bridge. It's still completely runnable but mistakes are easier to make and more consequential in terms of how far downstream you are traveling.


Looks like it got close yesterday, but is forecast to drop quickly by Saturday:
Advanced Hydrologic Prediction Service: Great Falls: Gallatin River near Gallatin Gateway

We're probably going to hit the Yellowstone on Sunday:
Advanced Hydrologic Prediction Service: Billings: Yellowstone River at Corwin Springs


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