# Whats up with the cops at FIBARK?



## caverdan (Aug 27, 2004)

I had the best time at FIBARK this year. Congratulations to all that made it happen. Maybe I'll be back next year.

The only thing that will stop me is the attitude that the police had on Saturday night. Boaters are such a rough crowd and all. :roll: 

I'm wondering if others noticed it? Did anyone get a good veiw of the young lady getting slam dunked to the pavement by the 250+ lbs. cop? I was in front of the Vic, and saw this cop give her a major shove down. Major enough that they called in an ambulance to take her to the hospital before they hauled her into jail. Naturally her boyfriend was also arrested on the spot. 

Was anyone standing closer or have the low down on just what went on?

When I laft the Vic that night, I over heard them laughing about it. What a bunch of morons. It was a total turn off to a most excellent event. But I'll be thinking twice about attending another one.


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## Jiberish (Oct 20, 2003)

I thought the vail cops were worse.....

hehe...
Ben Guska


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## BastrdSonOfElvis (Mar 24, 2005)

cops are cops are cops...the world over. they love to beat people and that's why they're cops


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## highspeed (Oct 12, 2003)

I wasnt there and can't speek to this event, but I work in health care and work with a lot of cops. There are bad apples just like anything else but the majority are great people who just want to help others and want to be safe and go home to their families at the end of the shift. I have a ton of respect for what they do and what they have to put up with. Think about it from their prespective.

Kyle


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## mthurman (Jan 19, 2004)

*I'm calling bullshit*

I'm with the above post. In fact, I am tired of some of the cop bashing I see here. Most cops are great people and bust their ass for little pay and the simple pride that they help keep the wheels on the big machine.

I only know 4 cops personally and I have NOTHING but the utmost respect for all 4 of those guys. They get paid squat, are expected to make perfect decisions 24/7 regardless of conditions and maintain perfect composure regardless of any outside influences. Our expectations for them are between high and perfection. High for dealing with others, perfect for dealing with us.

I couldn't fill those expectations and honestly, I don't know many folks who could. Maybe that is why I only know 4 cops and about 1,500 "technology people". Point is, most of the cops out there do a hell of a job considering what we expect from them. And what's more, all 4 cops I konw have to have 2nd jobs to support their families. And none of these guys live large. So they are usually working an extra 10-30 hours every week to make ends meet. Maybe that is why we don't see too many on the river.

And as the above post said, at the end of the day, just like us after a day on the river, they just want to go home and see their family.

If you see a cop do something wrong, report it and follow through. Sure its a little work, but worth it. Our system is largely setup to openly monitor those bad apples. Good cops thinks legitimate complaints against police are paramount. They don't want pretenders or head cases making them look bad.

Are there bad cops? Sure. Are some departments worse than others? Sure. But by and large, cops are good folks who try hard to make our lives better. 

Flame away.


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## mvhyde (Feb 3, 2004)

*I saw the incident you wrote about*

She and her boyfriend or whatever he was were not very nice to the cops and well.......use that kinda language with me and make those kinds of threats to me, I might just punch your ticket for good :twisted: 

They also had some personal items on them they should have left at home...


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## Guest (Jun 21, 2005)

F.T.P


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## jennifer (Oct 14, 2003)

Yeah, the few cops I know are really good people. People tend to bash cops when they see "unusual" force, but this typically does NOT happen if people just cooperate with them. They either get bashed for being too aggressive, or they end up dead or completely unable to do their job if they don't get people under control. Glad it's not my job!


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## Ken Vanatta (May 29, 2004)

*Thank you allforattending and enjoying.*

This post, of course, caught my eye. As a member of the FIBArk BOD, I want to express a collective "Thanks" to all who attended FIBArk this year. It appears to have been the biggest and best ever. Here is a link to the local newspaper if you care to hear some of the local feedback: http://www.themountainmail.com/ . Because of the record crowds, 110 kegs of beer served at the festival, the record sales at the surrounding taverns and liquor stores and the scorching tempatures, I'd say that everybody was having a maximum amount of fun, and a few had more than the law allowed. The cops have a tough job during any such event as this. However, overall it seemed to us that the atmophere, again, was one of maximum enjoyment had by most all who attended. And we are so thankful for that. FIBArk definitely is "The Greatest Whitewater Festival" on earth. And... guess what? Next year is alreay well underway. We are on the radar screen of potentially being picked up by ESPN, OLN, RSN, and the likes. Numerous scouts and promo-developers were here scoping us out. Even Extreme Skier and RSN host Glen Plake made the scene and joined us in commentary during the Hooligan race and Men's Pro Freestyle events. We are on our way! Next year promises better cermonies for the athletes, improvements on some events, and continued fine tuning towards perfection of this fantastic four day festival in one of the most perfect locations on earth. Salidan's are very fortunate to live here year round, and we love having all the visitors come play in our paradise. We enjoyed having you all and you were GREAT! See you here next year. Cheers to everyone! -- Ken Vanatta


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## Livingston (Jan 8, 2004)

*stereotypes*

Right on Highspeed. I'd have to agree too. Yes, there are jerks in every group. Some of those bell curves may be shifted to either extreme depending on who you're talking about, but try to resist the urge to stereotype. Sure, it's a timesaver, but it's just being ignorant and shallow.

If us kayakers start giving cops an attitude as a group, we'll create a stereotype of our own. You want a cop rummaging through your car? How about those take-out-beers, open container? Other?

I spent a w/e in Vegas back in May to celebrate my best friend from high school's batchelor party. He's now a cop in my hometown. I break about half-a-dozen laws on an average day, so it was a bit strange partying it up with 5 cops! I'd say we didn't agree on every (most) issue, but they were more informed than most of the chatterboxes on this forum. Overall they were good guys, doing a job just like the rest of us. We all had a blast and I'd do it again. Can't wait to get pulled over next time back in Richmond Indiana!

-d


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## holmes (May 20, 2005)

I agree with all whom posted above - FibArk was better than ever this year! Great music, great events, great beer and great people! 

But I also agree with the OP - the cops were unusually agro and unwarranted assholes throughout the weekend! I did not once see anyone giving the cops grief, but on numerous ocassions did see the cops giving other people grief. From the unnecessary snide remarks, to full-on beat downs, the cops were on the prowl. They were trying to criminalize the situation rather than serving and protecting. This is actually not that uncommon for that valley (Salida to BV), and not unlike my hometown of Winter Park, but it was borderline harrasment. It was very clear the cops made it an us-against-them situation all weekend. And they created this situation from everything I saw.

I am not a cop basher by any means! I just tell it like I see it. You people whom were not even present at FibArk, and are jumping on the "don't bash a cop" bandwagon need to check yourselves, just like the cops around Salida need to check themselves! There can be peaceful coexistence, if we all just stay out of eachothers' business and mind our own!


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## BastrdSonOfElvis (Mar 24, 2005)

word


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## mvhyde (Feb 3, 2004)

*FIBark rocked*

I haven't been in many years and I have to admit.... it was absolutely cool, except for the weather..that was baking. My wife loved it, and my kid.... what 4 1-/2 yr old wouldn't? He got to paddle his boat a couple times and then play on all that inflatable stuff. The pugil sticks was his fav, he got to whack his old man and mom for all the times we tell him to pick up the damn legos!


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## Livingston (Jan 8, 2004)

I was there and was in a state to be arrested myself, I saw cops chase some teenagers down an alley from the Vic. No idea what they did, but they tried to hide in a stairwell and got caught. They were pulled out a bit violently, sure. But come on now, if you did something that resulted in a FOOT CHASE, do you expect the cops to politely ask you to stop and lay down? That's the only thing I saw

Funny sidenote, someone (pleading the 5th) used my cop friend's name last year after an NSV run while getting stopped by a ranger after illegaly paddling across Buttonrock.

-d


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## esp (Jun 13, 2004)

Frist off, I have to say that I was down by the river, and dont ask me what her name was cause I cant remember, but I do know a bit about what went on.

The guy who was arrested is a friend of mine, but i have not seen him since before this incident, and have not yet met his girlfriend. 

Another friend of mine is a cop who was there working, was just around the corner when the initial scuffle took place. He actually doesent work for Salida PD, he works for one of the other agencies in the valley. 

The ambulance there was a coincidence. They were responding to a woman having a diabetic emergency.

My cop friend told me that to his knowledge, no statements had been given by any witnesses. He also said eye witness statements would be helpful with this situation. 

My cop friend is one of the good cops. And as Mike said(BTW where the hell were you?):

"If you see a cop do something wrong, report it and follow through. Sure its a little work, but worth it. Our system is largely setup to openly monitor those bad apples. Good cops thinks legitimate complaints against police are paramount. They don't want pretenders or head cases making them look bad." 
Is exactly his position as well. So it sounds to me, even after talking to my cop friend, that a statement from any of you all that witnessed this event could prove helpful to my buddy that found his ass in jail. 

So don't hesitate to contact the Salida PD, because at the moment there are two different stories about what happened.


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## caverdan (Aug 27, 2004)

Like I said, I only caught part of it, and it wasn't pretty. E-mail me, I met a friend of a friend that says he saw it all. Maybe I can get him in touch with your friend.

I've been going to Fibark off and on since the 80's. I'm an older private boater and business man from Colorado Springs. I'm not afraid to complain about what I saw, but I only witnessed a split second of the accident. That's why I posted to see if anyone was closer. Yes, this incident should be reported to the police. 

I'm wondering who shoved who, first. It sounds like the policeman may have had a right to arrrest her, but they are suppose to be professional enough in their duties to not be throwing the first punch, (or shove as in this case).

I too know a few LEO's. That's why I know that they are not suppose act out in anger. It's part of their training. Arrest people, yes. Throw a women on the ground because they were verbally abused (from a woman, no less). I say NO!


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## esp (Jun 13, 2004)

caverdan,

thanks for the help. just have your friend contact the Salida PD directly. There will be more validity to the complaint if there is no collusion involved.

SPD phone number 719 539 6880.

Thanks


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## caverdan (Aug 27, 2004)

I'll pass on the info. Hopefully it will benefit your friend.

SYOTR


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## surfpiper (Nov 18, 2003)

You know.. if you treat cops like shit, you're going to be hauled off to jail. 99% of cops are upstanding people who have always showed me a great deal of respect. 

On another note, when you're drunk in public.. you're the only one having a good time. To everyone else, you're a problem. Especially cops. These guys have to put up with a lot of shit everyday, they don't need some punk ass kayakers giving them attitude. In the end, someday you're going to need their help... and what comes around, goes around.


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## esp (Jun 13, 2004)

Where you there?


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## holmes (May 20, 2005)

*esp* is right on - were you there!?

I was, and saw some serious abuse of police power going down all weekend! And no, I was not drunk, stoned, or disorderly.

The cops at FibArk were out of line![/b]


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## AnneD (Aug 9, 2005)

*Setting the record straight*

Greetings, I am the young lady (140 pound) who got shoved and knocked on the ground by the 250 pound cop. For the record, I attempted to walk past the policeman to meet friends at the FIBark entrance. The entrance was located approximately 15 feet from where I was standing on the sidewalk watching an ongoing FIBark event. Unfortunately, this action was not in accordance with the police directitve and rather than warn or stop me, he shoved me back off of my feet to the ground. Although I did not get taken via ambulance to the hospital, a visit to the hospital and my doctor concluded that I received a concussion for wanting to walk past a policeman to open businesses.

Nothing inappropiate was said to any of the policemen present. And nothing was on our persons that should have been left at home. We had just arrived at the festival (sober, I might add) and were carrying our ID's, cash and a cup of beer from the FIBark beer garden. 

Both my boyfriend and I are college educated, have never been arrested or had any close calls for any actions previously. I own two businesses in Salida and my boyfriend is a full time firefighter. He works daily with the police and we both know the tough jobs they do and have (had) respect for them in their sometimes difficult jobs. As for the arresting officer folks are so gung ho to stand up for. Did you know at the time of the incident he had an open investigation with the CSI for shooting to death a diabetic attempting to get a cookie to balance his blood sugar. My boyfriend who was present at that incident had an obvious interest in protecting me from this hot headed cop. 

As an educated person, who would like to believe in the process, I attempted to make a formal complaint. Unfortunatley, Salida has no form or official process to do so. And after being warned (threatened) by the chief of police I decided to seek other avenues of justice.

There are eyewitnesses that have come forward, I would love to speak with others as I seek to get these ridiculous charges dropped. To date it has cost me $3,500 to prove myself innocent.


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## caverdan (Aug 27, 2004)

Glad to hear your head is OK. Sounds like your pocketbook is taking a beating though.  

What really pissed me off about the whole thing, from my perspective, was when I left the bar and heard a couple of them joking about it, out front. I probably would have forgotten all about it, but them reminding me of it, made me mad all over again. I hope justice prevails in your case.

If I can help, let me know.


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## adm (Oct 20, 2003)

F.T.P.!!


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## holmes (May 20, 2005)

Though I was not witness to your incident, I did witness the overall attitude and overzealous nature of the police present immediately following.

If you need ANYTHING, any kind of support, etc. please do not hesitate to contact me! I fear no man - especially if he cowers behind the badge of a supposed peace officer! I will stand up for you in anyway that you might need.

Keep up the good fight!


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## manofthehouse4now (May 7, 2005)

All cops suck dick


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## cookler (Apr 13, 2005)

comments like "FTP" and "all cops suck dick" are really educated and sound wonderful. I really appreciate them, especially when someone is trying to fight for justice and protect her civil liberties. those comments only exacerbate the situation and make it harder for everyone. SO, Go fuck yourself and suck a dick..... :wink:


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## caverdan (Aug 27, 2004)

cookler said:


> comments like "FTP" and "all cops suck dick" are really educated and sound wonderful. I really appreciate them, especially when someone is trying to fight for justice and protect her civil liberties. those comments only exacerbate the situation and make it harder for everyone. SO, Go fuck yourself and suck a dick..... :wink:


I'm with you Cookler. I both cave and raft with several LEO's. I'm not trying to diss on all cops by bringing this up. But there appears to be a problematic individual here that shouldn't be out there dealing with people and their problems. Sometimes an individual like this can set the attitude of those around him as well. 

As soon as FIBARK ended, the police were there in force and had an attitude that they needed to clear the streets right away. They made it their job to make everyone go in a bar or go home. If they would have relaxed a little and given people a little time to disperse on their own, we wouldn't be talking about this right now. I see absolutely no reason why any man should slam a woman down to the ground with such force. Now I only saw a split second of it, and being straight and sober, I did not go over to add to the confusion and see what was going on. But I am willing to step up and say what I saw, which was a 250+ cop shoving a much smaller lady to the ground with much vigor. From my angle, it looked like he enjoyed it. And add on the comments I overheard while leaving the bar...............

If what AnneD says is right about his past history, this is a problem child that will be back to haunt us at FIBARK in the future, let alone every time you visit Salida. I hope others, like Holmes, that felt this negative vibe toward us boaters during FIBARK, step forward and voice their opinion. We need to help out our fellow boaters here. No one deserves this type of treatment.


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## routter (Mar 10, 2004)

> I really appreciate them, especially when someone is trying to fight for justice and protect her civil liberties.


Firstly, I've never seen a cop actively protecting someone's civil rights. Most commonly, they are trying to convince a person to waive said rights, "you don't mind if I search your car, right?" if not actively stomping on these rights.

Secondly, this notion of police officers "protecting themselves" is a load. A 140lb female w/o a visible weapon poses very little threat to a trained officer and exercising ANY type of physical force should be the officer's very last resort. These civil servants are paid to take shit in stride. THEY are the one's who need to maintain cool heads. Many jobs out there have FAR higher mortality rates than copping i.e. cab driver, convienience store worker etc. And if you eliminated the cops who kill themselves in (uneccessary) high speed chases from the equation (more per year than are killed by gunfire) their mortality rates are right around most building trades. Point being- I've never had some dude at the 7-11 stomp on my neck because I complained that the slurpie machine was out of grape.

So what's this all mean then? I don't support cops solely because their jobs are shit. I support them if their actions warrant it. And in small towns like Salida writing tickets and NOT finding stolen bikes and boats doesn't excatly make me well up with tears of pride.

[/quote]


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## Guest (Aug 10, 2005)

edited


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## holmes (May 20, 2005)

I have been harassed by the police, had my civil liberties stomped on, been arrested, and had to pay a lofty sum in cash and time. And I also used to say "fuck the police!"

And I have now chosen to take my power back from them, by being far more threatening to their status by no longer giving them power over me by merely saying "fuck you." Instead I chose to confront them with intelligent, fact based, adult conversation which truely puts them in their place. You will get much further in chanting down Babylon if you step out of the playground and onto an official pulpit.

Use your brain instead of your anger, for anger is the only thing they know how to respond to. That is giving them your power, only to open yourself up to further repression.

Down with tyranny, up with intelligence!

Again, if my presence, knowledge of police attitude that night, or any other help I can provide is desired, please do not hesitate to call on me!

[email protected]


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## Guest (Aug 10, 2005)

it wouldbe nice if it were always that simple, but i'm afraid its not always that simple.


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## holmes (May 20, 2005)

And why is it not always that simple. It is as simple as you make it. Those that do not agree or understand are simply not worth your time and effort and you must turn your back on them. That includes the police. Believe me, I have been in a worse situation than most here can fathom, and I have risen above and learned how to beat them at their own game. I have taken my power back from "the man" and am using it in a constructive, educated way to get back at them. They are far more fearful of me now than when I was a childish FTP'er. And I am far less fearful of them!

"You can lock up my body, but you can never imprison my mind and my soul!"


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## BastrdSonOfElvis (Mar 24, 2005)

I'm with routter...fist in the air in the land of hipocracy. These guys aren't duckin' lead in Detroit or even Denver. They're in Salida. And sure, one on one most cops are nice dudes...I've had a few pretty good friends become cops. But the one common thread that links ALL cops together is a pretty harsh mean streak that's always there..right under the surface. I don't know if it develops over time because of the job they do and the scum they deal with or if it was a pre-existing personality trait...maybe even prerequisite. 

That being said, I'm not sure they're entirely to blame. Society - inherently flawed - breeds degenerates and miscreants..byproducts of our "civilization"..and therefore needs aggressive people to behave aggressively and keep this population in check. If police academies are anything like basic training in the military, it's small wonder they don't dish out beat downs more often. The problem arises when these aggressive people, who are often not too bright, either fail to differentiate between criminal and citizen or just indulge their blood lust on the wrong individual. Unfortunately, it's just the nature of the beast. There are bad people out there that want to hurt us and steal our shit..and I guess society as a whole prefers hardasses be out there to beat those people down and is willing to put up with the occasional use of excessive force on a law abiding citizen.

So, in my summated opinion, cops are dicks..but we ultimately need them to be...but maybe not in rural Colorado.


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## cookler (Apr 13, 2005)

routter:


> I really appreciate them, especially when someone is trying to fight for justice and protect her civil liberties.
> 
> this was in reference to the comments made previously, and a cynical comment on my part. not a statement condoning relationship building with cops (asking them to support your local ACLU chapter and such, or even holding the hand of a cop). i've had my run-ins with the police in the past, and i know how they can be. i also have some friends that are cops, but don't hang with them much. so go out and hug a cop!!!!!


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## BastrdSonOfElvis (Mar 24, 2005)

If you are hugging a cop it likely means you are about to be pancaked to the ground...then kicked a few times...maybe beaten with a night stick.


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## cookler (Apr 13, 2005)

yeah, last time i hugged a cop he separated my shoulder....fucker...


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