# Should I head to the Lochsa or the North Fork of the Payette.



## Flying_Spaghetti_Monster (Jun 3, 2010)

I have 4 days off for memorial day. I am going kayaking somewhere. Options are North Fork or Lochsa. I love the North Fork, but have never ran the Lochsa. Thoughts???


----------



## Dan McCain (Jul 4, 2012)

If you are going for the party go to the lochsa as its a great time memorial day wknd. As the whitewater goes I would definitely go for the NF payette. I grew up around the lochsa and love that river as it is pretty non-consequential straightforward big water class 4 but the couple of times we did the NF the whitewater blew me away (the 15 miles of continuous class 5 whitewater was unbelievable). Don't know if this will help as its coming from a rafters perspective.


----------



## Flying_Spaghetti_Monster (Jun 3, 2010)

North Fork it is thanks.


----------



## Anchorless (Aug 3, 2010)

North Fork is super low right now. That may be good or bad, depending on what you're wanting.

Wait.... when did a rafter do the NF? Cat boat? I can only think of a handful of rafts that have been down the NF.


----------



## Flying_Spaghetti_Monster (Jun 3, 2010)

How low is low, and what will the Lochsa be at? LOW?Med?High?


----------



## Ben Bade (Aug 14, 2009)

NFP is a pretty fun flow right now, but I'm a cat boater. Tons of fun surf holes on the lower 5 especially. Locsha will likely be in the medium range unless they get a little heat spell and some rain. Dirty 30 is a fun one too.


----------



## Anchorless (Aug 3, 2010)

It's actually at 1,200 now... was around 700 a few days ago and the past few weeks.


----------



## Ben Bade (Aug 14, 2009)

It's been in the 1,100 range for about 3 weeks now. We don't usually get this long of a pre-season window on the NF so its been kinda nice! They'll start turning it up more here soon.


----------



## Dan McCain (Jul 4, 2012)

Anchorless said:


> North Fork is super low right now. That may be good or bad, depending on what you're wanting.
> 
> Wait.... when did a rafter do the NF? Cat boat? I can only think of a handful of rafts that have been down the NF.


We did one top to bottom 3 years ago during labor day wknd three years ago r2in in a raft then did two trips down the next year on labor day wknd. We missed this last year as made a last minute decision on labor day to head up to BC to take a go on the box canyon. Threw a link below to our second year runs down Jakes. Its a great run in a raft (scary as hell but fun).

https://vimeo.com/29202441


----------



## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

The Lochsa will likely be low, barring a rain event. I consider low below 4' (not the gauge height from the internet gauge) or 8000'. It is still a hoot, lots of rapids and plenty of interesting things to go into, but it's true nature starts to show at 4. Med is 4-6' (8000-14,000) when it is getting big and fun and pushy. High is 6+, 14k and up. Last weekend it hit 20k, wish I had been there. The most fun on the Lochsa is doing the upper section, meatier and more technical, but below 4' the water slows so much doing the entire run in one day makes for a long day. 4' and below and the upper loses it's claim over the lower section. You'd probably enjoy Fish cr too, a tributary that you can drive 1 mi up and hike further. If you like the NFP you also should check out the SF clearwater, golden canyon section. Even the mickey mouse section is great, more technical than the lochsa, lower volume ledges and holes.


----------



## Claytonious (Jan 17, 2008)

Anchorless said:


> North Fork is super low right now. That may be good or bad, depending on what you're wanting.
> 
> Wait.... when did a rafter do the NF? Cat boat? I can only think of a handful of rafts that have been down the NF.


I rafted it with a bunch of people, I think in 2002, maybe 2003. I think we didn't do Jacob's ladder though. It was scary, but we actually didn't have any flips, and just one swimmer. Not sure if I would raft it again today.


----------



## CommanderKeen (May 18, 2011)

*Nuckin' Futs!*

Crazy! I always considered the NF to be a suicide run. Probably from reading all the incident reports on americanwhitewater.org.


----------



## Anchorless (Aug 3, 2010)

Dan McCain said:


> We did one top to bottom 3 years ago during labor day wknd three years ago r2in in a raft then did two trips down the next year on labor day wknd. We missed this last year as made a last minute decision on labor day to head up to BC to take a go on the box canyon. Threw a link below to our second year runs down Jakes. Its a great run in a raft (scary as hell but fun).
> 
> https://vimeo.com/29202441


That is bad ass.


----------



## Monto (May 15, 2012)

Laura, You really think she will be below 8 grand in a week and a half? Maybe its just wishful thinking but I'm hoping shes got another peak in her. This past weekend was big!! I should have never left... damn work.


----------



## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

I don't feel strongly about it, but there is a fair chance. If a kayaker is considering NFP vs Lochsa, I just want to make sure they know there is a risk that it'll be pushing the "low" range before they skip the NFP and drive all the way up, or choose to drive past the SFC. I recommend the SFC if you want a change from the NFP. Plus, it is usually uncrowded, in a beautiful quiet canyon. At least unless there are fishermen out. Memorial Day weekend may be another story.


----------



## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

I think the Lochsa has another possible peak, but it won't be a sustained one. I doubt it'll hit 22k again....maybe 18-19k?

MDW could be anywhere from 8k-16k. :lol:



I should be a meteorologist!!!


----------



## GoodTimes (Mar 9, 2006)

MT4Runner said:


> MDW could be anywhere from 8k-16k. :lol:


Hoping for the higher side of that prediction!!!!


----------



## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

Completely depends on the weather. I don't think there's enough water for it to stay at 16k for the next 2 weeks....so you'd better hope for cold weather for me this weekend and warm weather toward the end of next week for you! :lol:

Pretty cool how quickly that river's flow goes up and down so quickly. I'm used to a lot bigger watersheds that rise and fall a lot slower. The PNW paddlers and their rainfed whitewater probably think it moves slowly.


----------



## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

GoodTimes said:


> Hoping for the higher side of that prediction!!!!


Loop A?


----------



## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

MT4Runner said:


> I think the Lochsa has another possible peak, but it won't be a sustained one. I doubt it'll hit 22k again....maybe 18-19k?


I think the highest I've caught it is 18,600. Would love to see more someday!


----------



## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

I rafted the Lower at 20k in 2010 and snuck the Falls. I'd hit it now.


----------



## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

What? How did I miss that flow? I hit 7.5' on June 7, then I think I missed the next weekend. If I recall it kept going up even after that weekend flush - so much RAIN! I usually quietly say how I've never snuck the falls (not even my first times at 6.5' and 8.5' which were day 5 & 6 for me), and in the last two years I've never pushed either (ALWAYS pull back), but times are a changing for this old gal. 

She's just about 5.5' right now, I might be taking a gamble with my little boat tomorrow, doing a dirty 30. I have never in my life hoped for it to go down..... I may have to at least not pull back so much. I haven't had that little guy over 3' yet. I don't really want to haul both boats, and I need to be loaded tonight. So far it doesn't seem flippy. Squirrely yes, but not flippy and I threw it into everything I could at 3'. There's still plenty of meat in the Grim Reaper hole (surfing the top of it adds interest, then getting surfed in it), the falls of course (impossible to catch a surf at that level), and Terminator always has something juicy to hit if you want. 

Oh it will be so nice to be back on the Lovely Lochsa tomorrow!


----------



## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

I didn't keep a log back then, so I had to go look it up. Looks like it was 20k on June 4-5, 2010. 

Yeah, it was my first time rafting it, but never since!!

Chuck's pushing for an Upper run on Sat.


----------



## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

Forecast for a post-warm spell bump again, maybe it'll hold 5ish' till the weekend. Yay, then hopefully a June rain event.....


----------



## Aroberts (Apr 20, 2009)

NF is 1940cfs


----------



## Flying_Spaghetti_Monster (Jun 3, 2010)

I need to stay in Class V so I will be going to the North Fork. My goal is top to bottom above 2200 this year so I need to get started.


----------



## Aroberts (Apr 20, 2009)

If you do want to get some Lochsa you can combo that with the SF Clearwater. You have the class V golden canyon section and the class IV mickey mouse section below that. Of coarse you could get a NF lap in on the way up and back. 

Other options
SF Salmon 
EFSF


----------



## afraid (Jun 8, 2011)

You seem like nice folks, can I follow you down the Dirty 30 saturday? I've done it once at 6000 cfs about 10 years ago, and the lower once at 9000. I'm thinking about heading over friday night and camping upstream somewhere.


----------



## Flying_Spaghetti_Monster (Jun 3, 2010)

How is the EFSF right now?


----------



## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

afraid said:


> You seem like nice folks, can I follow you down the Dirty 30 saturday? I've done it once at 6000 cfs about 10 years ago, and the lower once at 9000. I'm thinking about heading over friday night and camping upstream somewhere.


I'd be happy to have you join me, but I'm not going down this weekend. I will be over there again 5/31.


----------



## kateb (May 26, 2009)

What gauge do people use for the Lochsa? Right now the AW gauge says about 8000 cfs, but almost 7 feet. Never been up there and trying to figure out levels for this weekend to decide if it's worth the drive from SLC for the long weekend.


----------



## jkodadek (Jul 19, 2006)

kateb said:


> What gauge do people use for the Lochsa? Right now the AW gauge says about 8000 cfs, but almost 7 feet. Never been up there and trying to figure out levels for this weekend to decide if it's worth the drive from SLC for the long weekend.


That stage reading has nothing to do with anything. 8000 cfs is about 4' on the bridge gauge that old timers use. 

This level is kind of medium. It's not stomping but it's not low either. The playboating is better lower. It is pretty low for the Upper, however, which gets pretty slow going below about 12,000 or so.


----------



## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

kateb said:


> What gauge do people use for the Lochsa? Right now the AW gauge says about 8000 cfs, but almost 7 feet. Never been up there and trying to figure out levels for this weekend to decide if it's worth the drive from SLC for the long weekend.


Boaters refer to the gauge painted on the Lowell bridge.

Here's a conversion:
American Whitewater - Lochsa USGS/Bridge conversion









https://twitter.com/martysmith333


I find it least confusing to describe it in CFS until you learn the Lowell gauge.

It's worth the drive. Lower is very friendly, and the Upper is very runnable.


----------



## glenn (May 13, 2009)

When referencing lochsa levels the internet level should be provided in CFS and the bridge level should be provided in Ft. When you are planning you use the CFS guage but in the canyon the FT guage is all that is available. I have a guide with a rough correlation, but couldn't find one on line. 8K is good but not bonkers. I've never been during the memorial day weekend, but it's supposed to be a huge party. So don't expect to have a solitary experience. If you've never been to the Lochsa and a long weekend is the only opportunity then take it. It's a classic.

Online CFS guage: USGS Current Conditions for USGS 13337000 LOCHSA RIVER NR LOWELL ID

Twitter updates based on visual observations of the bridge: https://twitter.com/martysmith333


----------



## kateb (May 26, 2009)

Awesome thank you, now it all makes sense! I'm looking to run it in the low-medium range so it sounds like it's at a great level right now.


----------



## Flying_Spaghetti_Monster (Jun 3, 2010)

Note to self going to the North Fork on memorial day weekend was a bad idea. No one was really boating so I had to leave early. That sucked so I plan to regroup, and try again next weekend.


----------



## carvedog (May 11, 2005)

Flying_Spaghetti_Monster said:


> Note to self going to the North Fork on memorial day weekend was a bad idea. No one was really boating so I had to leave early. That sucked so I plan to regroup, and try again next weekend.


You must pick the peaches when they are ripe. 

Why do you 'have' to stay in Class 5? 

Sounds like a mighty agenda for a kayaker. 

Good luck.


----------



## Flying_Spaghetti_Monster (Jun 3, 2010)

carvedog said:


> You must pick the peaches when they are ripe.
> 
> Why do you 'have' to stay in Class 5?
> 
> ...


Because I currently live in Utah, and spent most of the winter not boating. I got to soak up all the class v I can while I can because it helps me get through the times I can't even get on a wave in this no water state.


----------



## Anchorless (Aug 3, 2010)

I know a guy in SLC who drives up to Idaho to paddle almost every weekend... NF whenever it is in. He'll paddle whatever whenever. He was up at Lochsa with us this weekend LOVING it.


----------



## Flying_Spaghetti_Monster (Jun 3, 2010)

That guy must be Christian. And that guy has more time to boat up there than I do so he can be picky.


----------



## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

Well the lochsa was a blast. Good weather and enough water to get all jiggy and flippy. Fun fun.


----------



## Flying_Spaghetti_Monster (Jun 3, 2010)

Maybe I will get up there one day, but I love the north fork, and it was a lot closer so it seemed like a brainer. It's all good. I am sure there will be people up there this weekend training for the race, and for sure the race weekend. Garden Valley Idaho is one of my favorite places ever so it makes sense that I would go there over the Lochsa.


----------



## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

carvedog said:


> You must pick the peaches when they are ripe.
> 
> Why do you 'have' to stay in Class 5?
> 
> ...





Flying_Spaghetti_Monster said:


> Because I currently live in Utah, and spent most of the winter not boating. I got to soak up all the class v I can while I can because it helps me get through the times I can't even get on a wave in this no water state.


Different strokes. 

I feel the same way...I wait all winter for water...and I'm just a class iv guy, so I hit the Lochsa as hard as I can while it's running. I feel the same way about running iii when the Lochsa is good, and when its season is over, I'm fine hitting iii.


----------



## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

That's a bummer Monster. The NF is something special and when you are up to it it is best to go get it. Hope you find some more time for getting on it when others are too.


----------

