# Up To Date Guide Books



## Chapmatterson31 (May 4, 2021)

I've been looking around for a good guide book/field guide for rivers and creeks primarily in Colorado and Northern New Mexico. After some research it seems that for CO the gold standard is the "Colorado Rivers and Creeks II" by Banks and Eckardt but as far as I can tell that is the most recent edition and has been out of print for quite some time. Can anyone tell me if there is a more up to date version of CRC or if there is a new book out there of equal quality but more current information? Any other suggestions for the CO and NM regions are appreciated.


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

Rivermaps.net is the gold standard these days since Western Whitewater went out of print


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## Chapmatterson31 (May 4, 2021)

Looks like those are the big spiral bound books that cover the major permitted rivers. I'm looking for something that will cover the smaller rivers, creeks, and tributaries that are "off the beaten path" so to speak. Runs that would be more considered for weekend adventures and day runs.


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

Chapmatterson31 said:


> Looks like those are the big spiral bound books that cover the major permitted rivers. I'm looking for something that will cover the smaller rivers, creeks, and tributaries that are "off the beaten path" so to speak. Runs that would be more considered for weekend adventures and day runs.


They are...

Look for a copy of Western Whitewater then, they pop up on Amazon and the interwebs in general. Unfortunately they are bringing a premium these days, the last one I saw for sale was around 40 bucks, it's an unbelievably comprehensive guide, that despite not being published since the '90s, still has a whole bunch of relevant information. It's well worth the price if you can find one.


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## craven_morhead (Feb 20, 2007)

Colorado Rivers and Creeks is out of date. The current gold standard is Whitewater of the Southern Rockies. Unfortunately, it's also out of print. They're commonly referred to as "The Old Testament" and "The New Testament," respectively.


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## Chapmatterson31 (May 4, 2021)

@craven_morhead Thanks for the tip. I might see if I can track down a copy of both if for nothing more than inspiration.


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## Ripper (Aug 29, 2012)

A decent amount of the rapid beta is different/outdated (floods/fires/etc..) these days since Whitewater of the Southern Rockies came out... I use it more for logistics, and to peak my interest in a "new to me run". Once the interest is peaked in a new section I check with the homies, and hit the google box. I really like the formatting of this guide book, but it still leaves some to be imagined in regards to mile by mile beta in comparison to River Maps.

I've got a copy of the New Testament so feel free to PM me if there is certain sections you are wanting to look at... I've also got a copy of Volume 1 & 2 of Whitewater of the Southern Appalachians. It's the same format and good shit as well... also currently out of print I believe, but the beta is more current. If you boat in the SE these two are worth finding a copy of for sure as well! I warn you though, people think they are printed in gold leaf in the used market...


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## Chapmatterson31 (May 4, 2021)

@Ripper awesome thanks for the info! I may take you up on that once I'm able to narrow my interest down from "anything with water in it" to a specific river or creek. I've looked online for a copy of "The New Testament" and it seems that it's worth it's weight in gold! I'm located in southwest CO and am just getting into rafting. I picked up a Mini Max around Christmas and have been trying to find small creeks around my area that I can use to help build my skill level. I've spent a lot of time looking at the American Whitewater website and it seems that a majority of that information for my area was last updated, at best, around 7 years ago.


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## kayakfreakus (Mar 3, 2006)

Old and New Testament are the “latest” and best, also check out Riverbrain.com for online run info and flows, seems to be back and while not perfect does also have some good beta.


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## no1kobefan (Aug 29, 2019)

craven_morhead said:


> Colorado Rivers and Creeks is out of date. The current gold standard is Whitewater of the Southern Rockies. Unfortunately, it's also out of print. They're commonly referred to as "The Old Testament" and "The New Testament," respectively.


Hell of a post for number 1000.


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## Quiggle (Nov 18, 2012)

I’ll second everything mentioned above, I own all three and yes some of the access points are dated but still great for at your fingertips river beta. Also river brain if you know the name of the river. Keep looking at Amazon, they will occasionally pop up for a fair price. Old Testament is my go to if I just want a quick read of a section, New Testament if I’m looking at something obscure and western white water if I want full blown history/knowledge of a section that’s flows for more than a month and is generally longer than a day trip. Also I can’t tell you how many times having the new/old in my truck has helped me figure out how to get home from the take out.


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## Quiggle (Nov 18, 2012)

Also forgot to mention floaters guide to Colorado which I find lame compared to the others. If I had to pick one for rafting only I would pick the Old Testament


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## Chapmatterson31 (May 4, 2021)

@Quiggle Thanks for the input. I was able to find a copy of the Old Testament online for a decent price, although it might end up being the most expensive paper back I own once it arrives lol.


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## Ripper (Aug 29, 2012)

I want to get another copy of the Old... I lost mine in a move, and it pisses me off every year at the start of the season when I remember about it lol


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## Andy H. (Oct 13, 2003)

MNichols said:


> Look for a copy of Western Whitewater then, they pop up on Amazon and the interwebs in general. Unfortunately they are bringing a premium these days, the last one I saw for sale was around 40 bucks...


$40 for a copy of WW is a great deal, here's a copy for $65, - still a good deal. It's about 600 pages of the entire western half of the country. Really good detailed description of runs and rapids, logistics, flows, and well-written essays that provide context.

*From Library Journal*
In this comprehensive guidebook for whitewater river runners, the authors (California Whitewater, North Fork Pr., 1994, 3d ed.), plan outings in Idaho, Montana, Wyoming, Colorado, New Mexico, Utah, Arizona, Texas, California, Oregon, and Washington. The description of each river includes information on discharge, flow, hazards, season, permits, managing agency addresses and phone numbers, commercial trip availability, side excursions, maps, put-in and take-out, and a mile-by-mile description of each trip with photos where appropriate. Combining useful and accurate information on whitewater in 11 Western states and an easy-to-read, logical format, this book is as much a reference book as a guidebook. Highly recommended.
Thomas K. Fry, Penrose Lib., Univ. of Denver
Copyright 1994 Reed Business Information, Inc.


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## Chapmatterson31 (May 4, 2021)

@Andy H. thanks for the excerpt. At this rate I'll have a full shelf dedicated to river guide books! I might hold out to see if I can find a copy closer to the $40 point. 

Does anyone know if there are currently any efforts being made to produce a current publication with more recent information? From the sounds of it to me, with the internet, the amount of effort to re-gather a lot of this data, and the high costs of publishing and printing a new book it seems unlikely.


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

Chapmatterson31 said:


> @Andy H. thanks for the excerpt. At this rate I'll have a full shelf dedicated to river guide books! I might hold out to see if I can find a copy closer to the $40 point.
> 
> Does anyone know if there are currently any efforts being made to produce a current publication with more recent information? From the sounds of it to me, with the internet, the amount of effort to re-gather a lot of this data, and the high costs of publishing and printing a new book it seems unlikely.


Nothing I've heard of.. Thought a long time ago that might be a project for Duaine Whitis, but never brought it up..


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## dpwater (Aug 2, 2011)

Check your local library. I've gotten the Colorado creeks and rivers for the past few springs there. The American whitewater data is usually not good which was a surprise. 

I've been following the run off on the SW Colorado streams for a few years. When they let up it's time for dam controlled. The biggest difference is the flows. It's amazing how different a river or creek can be at high or low flows. Mellow to terrifying to mellow. A kayak friend keeps a detailed river log for about a decade and he's been a great resource too.

I'm looking to do more rafting this season vs. kayaking. I have a small raft and a 13' I like to paddle with others. Get in touch if you want to go. I'm close to the San Miguel.


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## westwatercuban (May 19, 2021)

Has no one thought of archiving the old and New Testament?? There’s gotta be a pdf of them somewhere no?


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## Andy H. (Oct 13, 2003)

westwatercuban said:


> Has no one thought of archiving the old and New Testament?? There’s gotta be a pdf of them somewhere no?


Even books that are out of print still have copyright protections. Maybe you could talk to Kyle and Evan about the New Testament? I think they were going to try to take it online at one point. Anyone know more ab out that?


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