# First Class 5



## gtfowen (Jun 26, 2015)

Hi everyone I got into kayaking a few years ago and now I am ready to try out a class 5 run. I am confident on class 4 and was wondering what a good first or more forgining run would be?


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## gtfowen (Jun 26, 2015)

I will be road tripping through oregon norcal and colorado/utah/arizona this summer 

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## bobbuilds (May 12, 2007)

Here in colorado we have some great class V.

I would look at Gore canyon for a nice river style class IV/V and a solid class V over 1600cfs. big water, big holes.

Bailey, N.F South platte for a nice creek run class IV/V and solid class IV+ V over 400 cfs

There are also other options, it will depend on when you are here in the state. Right now there are are a bunch of choices though, things have peaked and are on the way down.

what have you been eyeing here in CO?


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## MADDMATT (May 13, 2015)

Theres a bunch. big south , ten mile creek, clear creek , just depends on where your at in Colorado


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## gtfowen (Jun 26, 2015)

bobbuilds said:


> Here in colorado we have some great class V.
> 
> I would look at Gore canyon for a nice river style class IV/V and a solid class V over 1600cfs. big water, big holes.
> 
> ...


I've been looking at gore canyon but Ive head that its a pushy


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## Jb1rd (Sep 11, 2011)

That is kind of the name of the game when you make the move up. GC is a great introduction to Class V just take your time, scout and go with a good crew. 



gtfowen said:


> I've been looking at gore canyon but Ive head that its a pushy


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## gtfowen (Jun 26, 2015)

Thanks Jb1rd
GC would be a dream trip if the wait list wern't so long my buds and I may buy out a commercial trip next year though 

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## yakkeranna (Jul 8, 2009)

gtfowen- I think you're confused. In this context GC = Gore Canyon, I think you thought it meant Grand Canyon?

My personal opinion would be that you should start stepping up on your local runs, rather than going on a road trip with the intention of running a bunch of class V with people and on runs you don't know well. At least run some class IV first in each place you're visiting so you can can a feel for the character of the rivers in that area... OR V =/= CO V =/= CA V in my experience


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## gtfowen (Jun 26, 2015)

Oops

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## gtfowen (Jun 26, 2015)

I mainly run the american river and a little kern, I thought about rainie falls on the rogue becaue it looks pretty clean. 

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## mcguire (Apr 11, 2012)

If i may sound in. The Forks of the american in Cali and not running Rainy Falls on the Rouge has not prepared you for a Class V road trip. It has however prepared you for a wonderful kayaking adventure. Running a class V run not a single rapid out of character for the rest of the run is no joke. It is to be done systematically with a plan, with people who are solid and have the capability to solve real life threatening problems. enthusiasm can create over zealousness. Over zealousness can be dangerous. Have Fun


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## jmack (Jun 3, 2004)

So, you started a thread about buying your first kayak on the same day you started a thread about stepping up to Class V.

This is like saying that you demoed a mountain bike and rode an intermediate trail. You now want bike suggestions for next year's Red Bull Rampage. It makes no sense.

I would be willing to bet that you are not solid on class IV. You probably ran some class III that rafters call class IV, and now you think that kayaking is easy. I would recommend buying a kayak and then learning to use it. This will take a few years. Then cautiously move into Class 4-5, with the goal of improving and paddling well- not of "running a Class 5."


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## gtfowen (Jun 26, 2015)

Hi


jmack said:


> So, you started a thread about buying your first kayak on the same day you started a thread about stepping up to Class V.
> 
> This is like saying that you demoed a mountain bike and rode an intermediate trail. You now want bike suggestions for next year's Red Bull Rampage. It makes no sense.
> 
> I would be willing to bet that you are not solid on class IV. You probably ran some class III that rafters call class IV, and now you think that kayaking is easy. I would recommend buying a kayak and then learning to use it. This will take a few years. Then cautiously move into Class 4-5, with the goal of improving and paddling well- not of "running a Class 5."


True I really have only been paddling for 3 years and on 6 different rivers. I feel super solid on 3+ and regular solid on 4s(rarely flip & even more rare that I swim) I have learned that boating is different everywhere and I should gain more expience before attempting a more dangerous section of river. I cannot overestimate my ability to paddle safely. Maybe this summer I'll try out the numbers or another river to push my skill without being to overzealous. 

To solve the question about competent class 4 and not owning a kayak. I do own one... An ocean one. Its when I come to a river that I need to borrow one. I have river kayaked 60 days of my life and oceaned 3x that much. I know it is like comparing apples and oranges but it translates really easy. 

Thanks for the help , Owen


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## bystander (Jul 3, 2014)

gtfowen said:


> Hi
> 
> True I really have only been paddling for 3 years and on 6 different rivers. I feel super solid on 3+ and regular solid on 4s(rarely flip & even more rare that I swim) I have learned that boating is different everywhere and I should gain more expience before attempting a more dangerous section of river. I cannot overestimate my ability to paddle safely. Maybe this summer I'll try out the numbers or another river to push my skill without being to overzealous.
> 
> ...


That sounds a bit better, but one way to get ready for a bump up in difficulty is running your current ones while hitting all the ferry lines, eddies, and all the more challenging lines. There is a big difference between running a river down hill, and hitting all the lines.

If you've done that, you may be ready, though with Class 5, you'll want some swift water safety training too, if you haven't already.

And as far as boats go, if pushing your limits on difficult runs is your thing, forget the Jackson Fun, and look at a creek boat.


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## gtfowen (Jun 26, 2015)

bystander said:


> If you've done that, you may be ready, though with Class 5, you'll want some swift water safety training too, if you haven't already.


I have a WFR cirt but where do you recon I can get a swift water training


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## bystander (Jul 3, 2014)

gtfowen said:


> I have a WFR cirt but where do you recon I can get a swift water training


I don't know where to go for where you are, but I'm sure a white water shop would have some numbers for your area.


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## gtfowen (Jun 26, 2015)

Thanks bystander. Ill be up in coloma in the next weekor two . Mabye I can find something round there☺

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## bystander (Jul 3, 2014)

gtfowen said:


> Thanks bystander. Ill be up in coloma in the next weekor two . Mabye I can find something round there☺
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900V using Mountain Buzz mobile app


Give CCK or The River Store a call. They run classes on the C to G run all the time.


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## johng (Apr 25, 2005)

I'm wondering why you'd want a road trip to run Cl V if you're in Cali. I loved the rivers there - lots of choices for Cl IV and V. The lower Cherry Creek section - the one that ends at Lumsden falls - is a great Cl V run, and I think a reasonable step up for a very solid Cl IV boater if you hit it a med or low water. You'll want to be comfortable at high water (i.e. above 'medium', not necessarily flood) on e.g. Chamberlin Falls, the normal Tuolumne run, etc. 

I agree with others that you're likely better off stepping up on your local rivers, where you'll have a feel for the rapids and can paddle with your regular crew.


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## gtfowen (Jun 26, 2015)

johng said:


> I'm wondering why you'd want a road trip to run Cl V if you're in Cali. I loved the rivers there - lots of choices for Cl IV and V. The lower Cherry Creek section - the one that ends at Lumsden falls - is a great Cl V run, and I think a reasonable step up for a very solid Cl IV boater if you hit it a med or low water. You'll want to be comfortable at high water (i.e. above 'medium', not necessarily flood) on e.g. Chamberlin Falls, the normal Tuolumne run, etc.
> 
> I agree with others that you're likely better off stepping up on your local rivers, where you'll have a feel for the rapids and can paddle with your regular crew.


Im on a road trip with the family. Im only 16 so don't have too much choice. Luckily its a kayak/canoe trip!! 

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## justin.payne (Oct 28, 2009)

There is a big difference between Class IV and Solid Class V….just sayin. If you want to run a class V just to say you have, go to the Clear Creek narrows and bump down at 160 cfs, then go back to Cali and tell all your friends it was super gnar.


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## El Flaco (Nov 5, 2003)

IMO the way you know you're ready is that all the guys (gals) that you regularly paddle with, the ones that are already paddling Vs confidently, are telling you, "Yeah, man- you're ready to step it up. I know just the right run for you to take it to the next level." And then they run it with you & watch your ass the whole time. 

Class III & most class IV kayaking can be achieved through a lot of individual practice and talking some lumps while you learn. Class V boating is a team sport. You had better be able to trust those people with your life, because the nature of IV versus V is the consequences. Don't just try to run a V just to say you've done it - that kind of mentality gets a lot of folks hurt, and some aren't here anymore. Too many really good paddlers have been killed in class V rapids; in stretches that they're familiar with - backyard runs, etc. While I think there's a wealth of knowledge about rivers on the Buzz, I'd be very reluctant to make a judgment as to what your skill set equates to when it comes to what you're ready for next.

My advice: You're young - these rivers are going to be there next year and for decades to come (well, hopefully). Find a good crew, get familiar with how they run hard rapids, then you'll just *know* when that first V rapid is calling your name.


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## gannon_w (Jun 27, 2006)

Any reason you're skipping IV+? There's lots of IV+ and V- around to step it up. I also think there's a noticeable difference in CO boating between Iv and IV+. Also, there's a big difference between a river with a few Vs and a class V river. Careful out there.


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## craven_morhead (Feb 20, 2007)

One other consideration; the best circumstances for your first Class V run involve running something with a crew of people who you're comfortable with, who are more experienced than you are, and who can give advice as to whether you're ready to run a certain rapid. And who can then set safety for the same.

Bad circumstances include meeting up with some random collection of boaters in a new state.


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## gtfowen (Jun 26, 2015)

craven_morhead said:


> One other consideration; the best circumstances for your first Class V run involve running something with a crew of people who you're comfortable with, who are more experienced than you are, and who can give advice as to whether you're ready to run a certain rapid. And who can then set safety for the same.
> 
> Bad circumstances include meeting up with some random collection of boaters in a new state.


So here's the problem. I live in San Diego. Not much whitewater there. My 'group' I KAYAK with 7-10 days a year. Otherwise its just me and myself at the WW park. When we kayak we kayak anywhere from 3+ to 4+ only one member has paddled a 5 (greenwall rapid Illinois river). This is brecause we started learning at the same time. I enjoy pushing my limits. I want to do it safely though. Thats why in the original post I wanted a class 5 river or run. River or run may have been the wrong term but a single rapid that safty and rescue was simple and a swim isn't bad if you flip near the top. 
Thanks, Owen 

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## craven_morhead (Feb 20, 2007)

gtfowen said:


> A single rapid that safty and rescue was simple and a swim isn't bad if you flip near the top.


The problem is, by definition, that is not a class V rapid. At least not in Colorado. Tunnel, on Gore, gets the closest, but even there a swim from the top is going to be a bad time.


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## gannon_w (Jun 27, 2006)

Sounds like maybe a Bailey run would be safest and easiest to join a crew for. Really a IV+ on a few spots but a good intro into more committed/difficult boating. CC narrows at lower water also.


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## Outlaw (Mar 8, 2010)

I'd just skip class V and go directly into class VI+. Class V is for pussies!


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## crackeryaker (Oct 15, 2003)

Hey Owen, that sounds like an amazing road trip!! You have great parents, some of my fondest memories growing up were road trips out west. There is great advise already in this thread. Don't get too hung up on river ratings, or "running a class V," not that you necessarily are -- it sounds like you are stoked to run some harder whitewater. Get some guidebooks for the areas you are traveling to, call the shops and get out there as much as you safely can. Even hiking/scouting harder runs. It sounds like you play boat, that's an excellent way to get out there in a safe environment as you travel around, and also a good way to hook up with local boaters. It's also worth repeating that you can make class V moves in almost any whitewater. Have fun!


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## yakkeranna (Jul 8, 2009)

gtfowen-
For Oregon, water levels will suck this summer, but I can recommend some dam-released class 3-4 runs which have some quite intimidating rapids. These aren't necessarily as consequential as a "true" class V, but they are difficult to style and have a class V "feel". For the runs near Salem, a playboat or creekboat would be fine, for Meadowcamp (near Bend) I would definitely say you'd want a creekboat.

*Near Salem:*
Concussion Run (Middle Santiam):

The Middle Santiam

Wheels & Water: Middle Santiam - The Concussion Run (6.15.13)
Niagara Run (North Santiam):

https://www.americanwhitewater.org/content/River/detail/id/1551/

*Near Bend:*
Meadowcamp:

https://www.americanwhitewater.org/content/River/detail/id/10686/

send me a PM if you're interested and nearby any of these and I can hook you up with some folks who can show you down.

-anna


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## lmyers (Jun 10, 2008)

El Flaco's advice is spot on.

If you were in this area what I would recommend would be to scout Pine Creek rapid and run Numbers. If Numbers boats easy then run Pine Creek. If Pine Creek boats easy then your ready to start looking at runs like Bailey and Gore.


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## benR (Aug 5, 2014)

Since you don't have a crew to step up with, sounds like your best bet would be to take a cross-country road trip to GauleyFest or the Yough Festival in the West Virginia/Western MD areas ... both Gauley and Yough have "easy" class V that get run by a lot of people who have no business running them, most of whom don't die (but some of whom do), and lots of people around to link up with, and if you screw up at least you'll be seen. The closest thing in Colorado would be BaileyFest but it didn't happen last year and a good chance it won't happen this year due to water dynamics... not sure if there is a "GauleyFest" equivalent on the West Coast...


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## gtfowen (Jun 26, 2015)

JCKeck1 said:


> both Gauley and Yough have "easy" class V that get run by a lot of people who have no business running them, most of whom don't die (but some of whom do), and lots of people around to link up with, and if you screw up at least you'll be seen.


Haha, hopefully that doesn't happen any time soon. 😅

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## bystander (Jul 3, 2014)

benR said:


> Since you don't have a crew to step up with, sounds like your best bet would be to take a cross-country road trip to GauleyFest or the Yough Festival in the West Virginia/Western MD areas ... both Gauley and Yough have "easy" class V that get run by a lot of people who have no business running them, most of whom don't die (but some of whom do), and lots of people around to link up with, and if you screw up at least you'll be seen. The closest thing in Colorado would be BaileyFest but it didn't happen last year and a good chance it won't happen this year due to water dynamics... not sure if there is a "GauleyFest" equivalent on the West Coast...


Since he is in California, there is the North fork of the Feather at Tobin festival. I'm not sure on the full name of that one.


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## dthurbs (Mar 11, 2010)

Ditto to all the suggestions of stepping up on familiar runs. Catch tight eddies, make hard ferries, get your stroke timing and powerful draws dialed in. Then run class V. At 16, there's no need to be in a hurry to run hard stuff, be in a hurry to develop good decision-making.

All that said, take a look at Natural Bridge (IV) on the NF Rogue in Oregon. The local community in Ashland and Medford go up there on a regular basis and it'll add a new river and perspective to your list. It's also a gorgeous summer trip. If you're doing awesome up there, someone might be willing to take you into Takelma Gorge (V-) just downstream. The local paddling listserv is: waterdogs at lyris.dundee.net. Send out a plea for help when you're passing through.


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## gtfowen (Jun 26, 2015)

Thx

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## Anchorless (Aug 3, 2010)

I would try to catch the Bear River festival in Idaho (usually in April) and run Boo Boo. It's a solid class V but with the advantage of having a few dozen boaters setting safety. It might be the best class V entry situation I've seen on this side of the US.


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