# Last (maybe) cooler questions



## Pinchecharlie (Jul 27, 2017)

Ok, so I have two good coolers for a 8 day trip. I do everything right as far as freezing and ice and yada yada. Each cooler is a 4 day supply. The last 4 day cooler does not get touched and all is well. My question-IS- can you expect to have fresh vegetables and or salad greens in last days cooler when you open it? Maybe not till day 8 but day 4,5,6…??? Just still trying to understand how to pack a stupid cooler for a hot hot ass desert trip lol. My puny mind thinks- do each cooler the same , go overboard with prep, ice, don’t open follow all the rules. Then each can be identical in contents just opened at different time? No …I do not know how long vegetables last in general. I hate vegetables! But my family eats them all most exclusively (they are dumb) ok flame away.


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## Will Amette (Jan 28, 2017)

You can totally have fresh produce on day eight even if you have a two-day drive. Just plan on produce that holds up better; eat the delicate stuff first. Root vegetables like onions and carrots last and last and last. Other hearty produce can also last quite a while. I made a delicious cabbage salad the last night of a 23-day Canyon trip. We took apples home from the same trip. 

I bet you've had produce in your home refrigerator for a week or more. Those things that last in the refrigerator will last in your cooler as long as it's still cool. Fresh figs? Eat them at the put-in.

If you run one of your coolers as a FREEZER, you can take frozen vegetables. Pull them out (and the frozen meat) the day before you want to eat them and toss 'em in the other cooler. As they thaw, you even get a little bit of that latent heat magic. Don't forget to take the meat or fish out the day before or you'll end up cooking them when they aren't thaw yet; the outside will be overdone and the inside not quite done.


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## Chapmatterson31 (May 4, 2021)

Someone either told me this or I read it on here somewhere about cracking and mixing eggs into a plastic bottle if you're going to use them scrambled. My question is can you freeze scrambled eggs? And on the produce note, my group is doing a lot of vacuum packing for meals, does anyone have any experience with vacuum packing fresh produce?


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## codycleve (Mar 26, 2012)

I put that bubble foil in my cooler over everything. My veggies ride on top of that to keep them out of contact with ice. If its later in the trip I opt to stuff like cucumber salad.


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## Joedills (Jun 16, 2018)

Chapmatterson31 said:


> Someone either told me this or I read it on here somewhere about cracking and mixing eggs into a plastic bottle if you're going to use them scrambled. My question is can you freeze scrambled eggs? And on the produce note, my group is doing a lot of vacuum packing for meals, does anyone have any experience with vacuum packing fresh produce?


We do a lot of vacuumed sealed pre prepared meals on trips. We usually scramble eggs, vacuum seal them, and freeze them. No issues. I've also been on a winter GC trip where our fresh eggs were frozen when we cracked them open. I don't know about vacuum sealing fresh produce. Seems unnecessary unless you're trying to keep in fresh on a long trip.


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## Chapmatterson31 (May 4, 2021)

Joedills said:


> We do a lot of vacuumed sealed pre prepared meals on trips. We usually scramble eggs, vacuum seal them, and freeze them. No issues. I've also been on a winter GC trip where our fresh eggs were frozen when we cracked them open. I don't know about vacuum sealing fresh produce. Seems unnecessary unless you're trying to keep in fresh on a long trip.


Thanks for the info! We're doing a 7 day deso mid July.


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## GOTY2011 (Mar 18, 2018)

Closed-cell foam is your friend. Place fresh veggies in ziplock-style bags and place between layers of foam, near top of the cooler if you don’t want them smashed.


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## kengore (May 29, 2008)

Eggs freeze very well and take up a fraction of the room needed for fresh eggs. The only down side is you cannot do 'sunny side up' so it's just scrambled or omelets. 

Vacuum packing is the way to go. Fresh stuff lasts way longer and no more 'drowning' incidents from poorly sealed ziplocks.


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## JHUrbina (Aug 19, 2021)

codycleve said:


> I put that bubble foil in my cooler over everything. My veggies ride on top of that to keep them out of contact with ice. If its later in the trip I opt to stuff like cucumber salad.





GOTY2011 said:


> Closed-cell foam is your friend. Place fresh veggies in ziplock-style bags and place between layers of foam, near top of the cooler if you don’t want them smashed.


Lavex? Webstaurant.com? 1/8” FDA? Mcmaster-Carr?


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

You can also buy eggbeaters or other similar egg products aim cartons that make great scrambled or omelettes


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

We blanch and vac seal veggies, and use frozen eggs, either vac seal or egg beaters, never had a negative comment. Vac seal bags are far superior to ziplock bags in my opinion. We generally pre cook as many meals as possible, so prep and cooking of meals is kept to a minimum.. Have done an entire menu for the most part for Deso this way, especially nice in the hot months Instead of standing in front of a hot stove \ fire to cook. Cleanup is a cinch as well.


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## BenSlaughter (Jun 16, 2017)

If you can track down some FARM FRESH eggs...and request the farmer not wash them, eggs don't really need to be refrigerated.

Cool is ideal, but I typically just store mine in my drybox(bought a hard case to keep em safe)
Even grocery store eggs are usually good for a few weeks on the counter.


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## Will Amette (Jan 28, 2017)

BenSlaughter said:


> If you can track down some FARM FRESH eggs...and request the farmer not wash them, eggs don't really need to be refrigerated.
> 
> Cool is ideal, but I typically just store mine in my drybox(bought a hard case to keep em safe)
> Even grocery store eggs are usually good for a few weeks on the counter.


Or bring chickens……. 🤣🤣🤣

One of our GC trips we coated grocery store eggs with oil and packed them in a rocket with “egg crate foam” between the layers. That soft stuff, not the paperboard that eggs come in. Washing eggs removes the natural oil and makes them permeable. I don’t know if our approach was foolish, but it seemed to work. Of course it was an October trip so weather was cooler. And we probably packed them low in the load so the water helped cool ‘em.


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## BenSlaughter (Jun 16, 2017)

Although he's probly not laying many eggs...


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## Will Amette (Jan 28, 2017)

BenSlaughter said:


> View attachment 78850
> 
> 
> Although he's probly not laying many eggs...


If a hen can lay an egg each day, and if you want eggs every other day, and if you have ten people on the trip who usually eat two eggs…. 

Looks like you’re going to need a bigger boat/coop.


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

If a hen and a half can lay an egg and a half in a day, how long would it take a one legged monkey to kick all the seeds out of a dill pickle?

😁😉🐒🐔🐣!


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## Pinchecharlie (Jul 27, 2017)

(Face palm sigh..)


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## Happy Camper (Sep 8, 2020)

We use "green bags" for veggies and fruits that need to go in a cooler. The bags absorb the gases that cause rot and are available at most grocery stores in the produce section. Put a piece of paper towel in each bag to absorb moisture, and your veggies will last much longer.


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## Pinchecharlie (Jul 27, 2017)

Ok so if iam reading this right, some of you vacuum seal fresh vegetables? Like take a bell pepper and vacuum seal it? Now …see… here , I wanna eat like a boy. Chili poured in a bag of Fritos and hot dogs and just drink bloody Mary’s all day. That’s food ain’t it? But now I gotta do gluten free freaking vegetarian no lactose shite….how is this my family? I should vacuum seal a green bean for them! I’ll vacuum seal some bulgar wheat and in a mean drunken way proclaim , “ here your dinner jackasses!” Jeezlouise


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## BenSlaughter (Jun 16, 2017)

Do it!


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

Pinchecharlie said:


> Ok so if iam reading this right, some of you vacuum seal fresh vegetables? Like take a bell pepper and vacuum seal it? Now …see… here , I wanna eat like a boy. Chili poured in a bag of Fritos and hot dogs and just drink bloody Mary’s all day. That’s food ain’t it? But now I gotta do gluten free freaking vegetarian no lactose shite….how is this my family? I should vacuum seal a green bean for them! I’ll vacuum seal some bulgar wheat and in a mean drunken way proclaim , “ here your dinner jackasses!” Jeezlouise


I'm allergic to Gluten free, and non GMO too.. 

Blanch your veggies before vaccum sealing Charlie if you intend to cook them.

Cut your bell pepper into flat strips, or dice and remove seeds before vac sealing. 

You're over thinking a deso man.. Bring lots of snacks for the kiddos, and light meals, you're not going to want to eat a whole lot in the heat, and the more bloody mary's you drink, the less you're going to want to eat..


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## Pinchecharlie (Jul 27, 2017)

I was more just curious about a guy vacuum sealing a vegetable lol. It is hard though when people “want “ fresh raw vegetables in those conditions. More insight into my life, I don’t know what blanched even means lol


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## BenSlaughter (Jun 16, 2017)




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## go2water (Dec 20, 2003)

Don't try to freeze 1/2 and 1/2 for your coffee it will curdle...


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## Pinchecharlie (Jul 27, 2017)

Ok lol! I like my coffee like my heart, black and bitter lol. Guess what!!!??? All these idiots drink tea! Wth! Lol. It’s pay back from the gods for being such a mess in my youth. I know iam over thinking it but I just want them to be fed , sleep and go poop so I have more fun . Sad reality is they may not even want to be class v boaters lol!! It’ll be fine. If their blanched veggie kabobs get water logged and rotten it’ll give them a reason to “fast cleanse” a meal? At 54 years old I will admit that I am just a shit cook. Sad cause cooking good food is super healthy for the mind (iam told)


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

Pinchecharlie said:


> I was more just curious about a guy vacuum sealing a vegetable lol. It is hard though when people “want “ fresh raw vegetables in those conditions. More insight into my life, I don’t know what blanched even means lol


Charlie, tell them when they "want", that it's GOOD to want.. If they want in one hand and crap in the other, see which one fills up first. 

There's no reason one can't have good nourishing food on the river, especially a trip that's as short as a Deso. Granted, grand trip menu's can get a little creative around day 19, but Deso.. Naah. Employ the KISS principle, good, nutritious, tasty food isn't hard to make, shouldn't take hours, and should be easy when on the river. 

Why are your passengers referred to as idiots? Are they all politicians ? 

Kabobs are super simple and easy to make. Individually blanch and vac seal what you wish on them (don't blanch mushrooms) and soak the sticks well, interest the kids in cooking by making a game out of skewering the ingredients, and letting them cook their own "Custom Kebab" over the firepan. It'll be a hit that they will ask for at home. You, if you choose to use a protein such as meat, can vac seal in in a marinade if you like things like teriyaki chicken or beef kebobs. 

Make meals fun !!! Kids love goofy animal pancakes, just use a sugar free syrup or they will be bouncing all over the boat LOL..


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## Pinchecharlie (Jul 27, 2017)

Just playing around ! Iam just a human garbage can and can endure an amazing amount of discomfort lol. So I tease them for being so special lol. I mean when I was a kid fresh fruit was a treat so this whole “my body” and “fancy organic “ is kinda new to me. Pirate booty sucks man. But I get it. It’s just a fresh salad on a hot desert trip in a cooler worries me a little is all. My wife also “protests” my vacation choices by helping less so I “learn” and foods is definitely not my forte! I got the running gnar down though!! If you bring your snout this would be way easier!!!

I honestly wanted to know if I could pack the day 4-8 cooler with this stuff, not touch it, then open it to find it ok. Or find a mess…guess we’ll find out!


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## caverdan (Aug 27, 2004)

Pinchecharlie said:


> I honestly wanted to know if I could pack the day 4-8 cooler with this stuff, not touch it, then open it to find it ok.


 The answer is yes........ if you use a real Yeti cooler and pack it with the amount of ice they suggest.


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## kengore (May 29, 2008)

I vacuum pack fresh veg all the time. Some work better than others. I do as much prep as I can at home, even better if I can cook at home and freeze. This cuts down on camp waste in a huge way and makes camp dinners a breeze.

Fresh stuff that pak's well, easy 7 days
- cabbage, carrots, zucchini, onion, garlic, bok choy, celery, any root vegetable

Delicate fresh stuff, 2-4 days

lettuce, maybe 2 days
tomato, bell pepper, strawberries, pre-grilled kabobs or fresh kabobs- ready to go

Stuff that freezes well, good for end of trip
- any stew, chili, BBQ, burrito mix, mashed potato, jumbo, lasagna, quiche

Stuff that does not freeze well

cooked rice or contains cooked rice, turns to mush.
any citrus fruit

Other tips for long cooler life:

Damp moving blankets make a good 'evaporative cooling' cover. The stay wet for a long time.
The 'bubble wrap' style insulation (comes in 24" wide rolls at the big box hardware store) With some duct tape I made cooler covers.
I fill any nooks and crannies with small size frozen 'sport drink' bottles. These get transferred to a small six pack size cooler for daily refreshment. One frozen bottle will cool the others. Reduces hitting the big cooler for a drink.
A little dry ice will extend the life of a cooler by several days. Only works if the contents can survive freezing.


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

Pinchecharlie said:


> Just playing around ! Iam just a human garbage can and can endure an amazing amount of discomfort lol. So I tease them for being so special lol. I mean when I was a kid fresh fruit was a treat so this whole “my body” and “fancy organic “ is kinda new to me. Pirate booty sucks man. But I get it. It’s just a fresh salad on a hot desert trip in a cooler worries me a little is all. My wife also “protests” my vacation choices by helping less so I “learn” and foods is definitely not my forte! I got the running gnar down though!! If you bring your snout this would be way easier!!!
> 
> I honestly wanted to know if I could pack the day 4-8 cooler with this stuff, not touch it, then open it to find it ok. Or find a mess…guess we’ll find out!


Sorry Charlie, not enough water to float the snout.. 

You'll be fine.. Plenty of ice and good cooler management, keeping the kids out of it will go a long way..


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

I'm amused that Charlie would be so bold as to proclaim this the "last cooler question" thread. As if!!



MNichols said:


> We blanch and vac seal veggies, and use frozen eggs, either vac seal or egg beaters, never had a negative comment. Vac seal bags are far superior to ziplock bags in my opinion. We generally pre cook as many meals as possible, so prep and cooking of meals is kept to a minimum.. Have done an entire menu for the most part for Deso this way, especially nice in the hot months Instead of standing in front of a hot stove \ fire to cook. Cleanup is a cinch as well.


Vac seal bags are super durable. I wish they came with a ziploc on the other end. Would be great to be able to use them to reseal leftovers to eat for lunch tomorrow and not risk them to the cooler.
Granola/trail mix/dried fruit bags are a MUCH heavier wall than regular ziplocs and make good bags if you care to wash/reuse them. (now I sound like my mom!)



Happy Camper said:


> We use "green bags" for veggies and fruits that need to go in a cooler. The bags absorb the gases that cause rot and are available at most grocery stores in the produce section. Put a piece of paper towel in each bag to absorb moisture, and your veggies will last much longer.


Good tech. I did not know that. Thank you!!



Pinchecharlie said:


> But now I gotta do gluten free freaking vegetarian no lactose shite….how is this my family? I should vacuum seal a green bean for them! I’ll vacuum seal some bulgar wheat and in a mean drunken way proclaim , “ here your dinner jackasses!” Jeezlouise


Don't hold back, tell us how you really feel, Charlie!!


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

kengore said:


> Stuff that does not freeze well
> 
> cooked rice or contains cooked rice, turns to mush.


I've done quite a bit of precooked rice. Run a batch of good sticky calrose or jasmine rice in the rice cooker, and immediately cool it after the batch is complete. Don't let it sit and steam. Then bag and vacuum. IMHO it reheats quite well and has an acceptable texture.
Would agree that bagging entire rice-containing meals (jambalaya) don't fare as well as the rice tends to absorb the other liquids making the rest of the dish dry and the rice mushy.


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## Chapmatterson31 (May 4, 2021)

Ok, here's one, has anyone vacuum packed pre-made sandwiches? Or am I just trying to get too creative? lol


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

It would squish your bread. And the condiments would make your bread soggy.
But vac-bagged wraps might work. Your lettuce still has the same 2-3 day limit as lettuce by itself.


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

Chapmatterson31 said:


> Ok, here's one, has anyone vacuum packed pre-made sandwiches? Or am I just trying to get too creative? lol


Pre made meats, cheese, tomato and lettuce, bread doesn't vac seal well, but yes. Open the bag, slap it on the bread and eat away..


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## Pinchecharlie (Jul 27, 2017)




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## Pinchecharlie (Jul 27, 2017)

I watched a video of these guys in the late 40’s 50’s maybe doing the Grand Canyon in these little wood boats )not dory’s) and they had no sleep gear really and the boats where just filled with cans of food lol. Now iam crying about my glutens going bad in my 500 dollar freaking cooler….


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## BenSlaughter (Jun 16, 2017)

We've all gotten pretty soft, ain't we?


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## hysideguy67 (Jul 15, 2021)

We've switched up our lettuce regime from leaf lettuce to iceberg (ghetto) lettuce. Lasts many days in a cooler and makes for a tasty wedge salad


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## JHUrbina (Aug 19, 2021)

Pinchecharlie said:


> I was more just curious about a guy vacuum sealing a vegetable lol. It is hard though when people “want “ fresh raw vegetables in those conditions. More insight into my life, I don’t know what blanched even means lol


Vegetables such as carrots, broccoli, green beans, bok choy, asparagus, parsnips and others benefit boiling salted water (salt to soup taste) for a number of seconds to a couple of minutes. Locks in color and flavor. Don’t know about the integrity of vacuum sealing. I prefer to wilt some vegetables (kale), roast others (Brussels sprouts, beets, other root veggies and cauliflower)


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## griz (Sep 19, 2005)

maybe play this to your health hippie family and it will help you out so you can all enjoy a steak by the campfire all proper like, Charlie.😂
only clip of the scene I could find on the interwebs so you’ll have to deal with the shit qualiTy…👍


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

Perfect.. Gotta love Costner's character in Jellystone!


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## BenSlaughter (Jun 16, 2017)

Then he takes her home and they shag. Priceless.


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## codycleve (Mar 26, 2012)

JHUrbina said:


> Lavex? Webstaurant.com? 1/8” FDA? Mcmaster-Carr?



This stuff https://www.amazon.com/REFLECTIX-BP...7&sr=1-1-130d66bb-5357-457b-a4bc-70c5f3ad1001


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## codycleve (Mar 26, 2012)

I have also used that reflective foil insulation to make a little cooler coozie for my day cooler it helps a lot. one roll will do all your coolers and make a coozie or 2.


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## BCoyle21 (Jul 18, 2020)

Vac seal bags are super durable. I wish they came with a ziploc on the other end. Would be great to be able to use them to reseal leftovers to eat for lunch tomorrow and not risk them to the cooler.
Granola/trail mix/dried fruit bags are a MUCH heavier wall than regular ziplocs and make good bags if you care to wash/reuse them. (now I sound like my mom!)

https://www.amazon.com/FoodSaver®-R...ocphy=1016140&hvtargid=pla-1654689875678&th=1

Yes I bought the fancy one from Costco and I think these are what you're looking for


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## Pinchecharlie (Jul 27, 2017)

That still has a “zip” that could go bad though right? Aren’t we talking about a style where you’d have a sealed zip on one end, a open end that got vac and melted? Or what? The only thing I bet vac seal is my elk EVERY YEAR…lol!


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

Pinchecharlie said:


> That still has a “zip” that could go bad though right?


In my experience, it's the bag that rips 99% of the time and rarely is it the zip seal that fails or burps.



> Aren’t we talking about a style where you’d have a sealed zip on one end, a open end that got vac and melted? Or what? The only thing I bet vac seal is my elk EVERY YEAR…lol!


Exactly!


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

Ah!
I found 'em:


Amazon.com


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## 801firefighter (Feb 23, 2019)

Chapmatterson31 said:


> Someone either told me this or I read it on here somewhere about cracking and mixing eggs into a plastic bottle if you're going to use them scrambled. My question is can you freeze scrambled eggs? And on the produce note, my group is doing a lot of vacuum packing for meals, does anyone have any experience with vacuum packing fresh produce?


Yes, I scramble and freeze eggs regularly on trips.


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## dpwater (Aug 2, 2011)

Try living out of a cooler for a while. Obviously shade and evaporative cooling are factors in the desert environment. And get real block ice if you can.. not the compressed cubed ice. 

Like others I prepare a lot of food for both short and longer trips. However fresh foods are what sustain us. If you happen upon older produce that traveled the distance it won't last as long. Learn when the supply truck arrives or purchase directly from a farmer market or CSA. Or grow your own.

Lettuce can go a week if fresh. If your packing mostly fresh food and they desire some particulars you might want another cooler with ice. The freezer method would work as well. And in addition to blanching there's dehydration. I've done everything from pasta sauce to fruit leather. Focus on snacks as previously mentioned.


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## B4otter (Apr 20, 2009)

Tell your free range family there's watercress in Rock Creek - then get out of the way.


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## aman (Apr 24, 2017)

The thing I'm confused about is how you think putting your family down and being a complete asshat about glorifying it, is going entice me into wanting to help you understand how to manage this issue. The fact that you could care less about their food allergies and would prefer instead to boast about how shitty of a man you are. Your drivel is lost on me you piece of shit human.


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

aman said:


> The thing I'm confused about is how you think putting your family down and being a complete asshat about glorifying it, is going entice me into wanting to help you understand how to manage this issue. The fact that you could care less about their food allergies and would prefer instead to boast about how shitty of a man you are. Your drivel is lost on me you piece of shit human.


Dude, Charlie is just trying to be funny, it seems to be his way.. roll with it..

From what I and my friends know, Charlie is an upstanding upright individual, his way of coming across sometimes though, if you're not used to it, may seem a little bizarre...


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## hysideguy67 (Jul 15, 2021)

aman said:


> The thing I'm confused about is how you think putting your family down and being a complete asshat about glorifying it, is going entice me into wanting to help you understand how to manage this issue. The fact that you could care less about their food allergies and would prefer instead to boast about how shitty of a man you are. Your drivel is lost on me you piece of shit human.


And here we go again


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## griz (Sep 19, 2005)

MNichols said:


> , may seem a little bizarre...


only to humorless souls looking for an excuse to be offended.


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## Pinchecharlie (Jul 27, 2017)

Whoa!!! You must be allergic to something too ! The guy who’s been married and happily I’d say to the same girl and raised 2 and almost another doesn’t care about them?? I was just playing around for no good reason sorry I offended you guys. All of you and it’s seems like there more than one lol are welcome to pm me and we can hash out the details to meet up if you’d like. Iam not gonna get excited about tough stuff on the internet. I’ll gladly meet up with you though and I’ll gladly resign from m.b. Too if that’s what you want. Jeez you guys are a tough crowd . Please feel free to delete my piece of shit dumb ass post about keeping salad greens fresh. Fucking assholes


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## BenSlaughter (Jun 16, 2017)

Charlie: Illegitimi non carborundum.

And don't ever stop being you!


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## hysideguy67 (Jul 15, 2021)

Pinchecharlie said:


> Whoa!!! You must be allergic to something too ! The guy who’s been married and happily I’d say to the same girl and raised 2 and almost another doesn’t care about them?? I was just playing around for no good reason sorry I offended you guys. All of you and it’s seems like there more than one lol are welcome to pm me and we can hash out the details to meet up if you’d like. Iam not gonna get excited about tough stuff on the internet. I’ll gladly meet up with you though and I’ll gladly resign from m.b. Too if that’s what you want. Jeez you guys are a tough crowd . Please feel free to delete my piece of shit dumb ass post about keeping salad greens fresh. Fucking assholes


Please don't disappear... you make me lol almost daily. Some people have nothing better to do than be offended


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

BenSlaughter said:


> Charlie: Illegitimi non carborundum.
> 
> And don't ever stop being you!


ditto, and in case you don't know what Illegitimi non carborundum means, it's as close as you can get to "Don't let the bastards wear you down"

We love ya man, you keep on being you and life is all good.. 

And Ben, I hear the proper usage is "illigitimus", not Illegitimi, but what's a few characters amongst friends, who all seem to be characters LOL


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

hysideguy67 said:


> Some people have nothing better to do than be offended
> [/QUOT


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## jbLaramie (Feb 1, 2021)

Have brought my mom on a few milk toast rafting trips and she also “had to” have almost exclusively fresh veggies and fruit. Drove us nuts mostly because you end up being a short order cook and that’s miserable - now try it in the deso heat!. Takes forever as you probably know all too well. Now have strict eat it or starve policy for whatever is cooked for the group. Kids have adapted and my mom doesn’t go anymore. Everybody is happy 😃.


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

I took my Mom down LeadOar back in the early 2000's, was a blast and she was easy, however I did learn something, in the girl scouts back in the day, they taught them to warm their metal plates over the fire, kept the food warmer for longer once it was served. I do that to this day.. 

I always circulate my menu to whomever is on the trip, with the statement, "This is what's being served". If you don't like it, then bring your whatever and cook / clean after dinner for everyone else is served. That seems to head off any complaints, and I've only been taken up on it once, the guy was allergic to pork. Dinner was pulled pork. He brought his own smoked brisket and all was right with the world, I even warmed it up for him so he could eat at the same time as everyone else. 

Had a Grand trip where the PH's girlfriend decided on day 3 she was vegetarian, and despite my sending 2 emails about food, and the other meals did the same thing. When asked why she didn't say anything when she asked "what am I supposed to eat" I asked her why she didn't say anything, her reply was that 75% of the US doesn't eat meat, and therefore she wasn't expecting meat.. 

She came from deepintheheart of Oregon... The other 15 people enjoyed the carnivore menu... Got many kudos on the smoked meat and cheeses I brought.. Dead animal flesh was the order of the week.. 

Imagine that. 

She was hungry a lot.. Imagine that. Wouldnt' even eat the cheeses as they were smoked in the same smoker as the meats. No medical reason for it, it was "her choice".. Yep, hungry a lot....


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## Heywood (Apr 12, 2019)

I was on a volunteer trip in Lodore, rowing the Sierra Club down and one of the group volunteered to coordinate the food. She was a vegan and planned 6 vegan breakfasts and dinners for a group of people who spent 4 hours a day pulling tamarisk. She also would only use gourmet ingredients but there was a limited budget, which meant not enough food. I can only remember one or two nights where there was enough for seconds. One pasta meal towards the end had cheese on the side and there were nearly knife fights to get seconds. I remember there were some more traditional wraps available for lunch but we ran out of that two days before the end. Most of the guides had brought extra provisions for lunches and snacks and I remember getting into my pork tenderloin and gouda wheel near the end of the trip. I went far away from the group who were eating leftover lentils from the last night but the smell must have wafted over. Within 5 minutes I had 15-20 people over at my raft asking for some meat and cheese. After the trip was over the NPS employee took all the boatmen to Massadona for burgers and that might have been the best burger I have ever had.


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

I, unless I'm doing the food, always have a stash of mountain house meals for just such an occasion 🤠😊

Have needed to use them on more than one occasion..


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## Chapmatterson31 (May 4, 2021)

On the few trips I've been on so far if someone is vegetarian we plan the meal so that the meat can be cooked after and added to the dish separately. Luckily that's the only dietary restriction I've had to deal with so far. I've been given advice for longer trips to always carry at least a few mountain house meals and a way to cook them just in case.


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

Chapmatterson31 said:


> On the few trips I've been on so far if someone is vegetarian we plan the meal so that the meat can be cooked after and added to the dish separately. Luckily that's the only dietary restriction I've had to deal with so far. I've been given advice for longer trips to always carry at least a few mountain house meals and a way to cook them just in case.


The jetboil stoves Rock for this particular chore, also for your French press for coffee in the morning.. yes, the iso butane canisters are expensive, but it will boil the two cups of water for a mountain house meal in about a minute, and they last a lot longer than I ever thought they would


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## JHUrbina (Aug 19, 2021)

Pinchecharlie said:


> Whoa!!! You must be allergic to something too ! The guy who’s been married and happily I’d say to the same girl and raised 2 and almost another doesn’t care about them?? I was just playing around for no good reason sorry I offended you guys. All of you and it’s seems like there more than one lol are welcome to pm me and we can hash out the details to meet up if you’d like. Iam not gonna get excited about tough stuff on the internet. I’ll gladly meet up with you though and I’ll gladly resign from m.b. Too if that’s what you want. Jeez you guys are a tough crowd . Please feel free to delete my piece of shit dumb ass post about keeping salad greens fresh. Fucking assholes


I thought the post to be relevant. I look beyond the eddies and dig the current


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## Pinchecharlie (Jul 27, 2017)

When ever your ready let me know!


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## JHUrbina (Aug 19, 2021)

Heywood said:


> I was on a volunteer trip in Lodore, rowing the Sierra Club down and one of the group volunteered to coordinate the food. She was a vegan and planned 6 vegan breakfasts and dinners for a group of people who spent 4 hours a day pulling tamarisk. She also would only use gourmet ingredients but there was a limited budget, which meant not enough food. I can only remember one or two nights where there was enough for seconds. One pasta meal towards the end had cheese on the side and there were nearly knife fights to get seconds. I remember there were some more traditional wraps available for lunch but we ran out of that two days before the end. Most of the guides had brought extra provisions for lunches and snacks and I remember getting into my pork tenderloin and gouda wheel near the end of the trip. I went far away from the group who were eating leftover lentils from the last night but the smell must have wafted over. Within 5 minutes I had 15-20 people over at my raft asking for some meat and cheese. After the trip was over the NPS employee took all the boatmen to Massadona for burgers and that might have been the best burger I have ever had.





Chapmatterson31 said:


> On the few trips I've been on so far if someone is vegetarian we plan the meal so that the meat can be cooked after and added to the dish separately. Luckily that's the only dietary restriction I've had to deal with so far. I've been given advice for longer trips to always carry at least a few mountain house meals and a way to cook them just in case.


The way I manage vegetarian and vegan is to make sure I do like @LaceyAnderson (No Coolers books), every meal has vegetables, starches, dessert, and pre meal snacks (depends on the weather whether there is a soup). Meat can always be made separate as already mentioned, and I calculate 16 people who eat like me (horse/wolf). Nobody leaves my kitchen hungry. I do find that the hard core vegetarians will cross the line with eggs and milk products especially if there is cake. I did have a buddy I invited who said no to pork, and I was quite relieved when he bowed out. Pasta, rice, beans thus Italian and Indian really easy to get this kind of stuff, grilling the meats.


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## ZGMikey (Apr 23, 2021)

MT4Runner said:


> Ah!
> I found 'em:
> 
> 
> Amazon.com



Thanks for making life easier @MT4Runner !!! These bags are AWESOME. 36 hour "smoked" sous vide brisket - sealed and frozen for the MFS later this month!


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## BenSlaughter (Jun 16, 2017)

I wish they made those in a two-gallon size.
That'd be ideal for taking frozen chicken, letting thaw for the first few days on the river, then opening up to add marinade the day they're to be cooked...
Always a juggle with regular food saver bags.


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## Wallrat (Jan 19, 2021)

aman said:


> The thing I'm confused about is how you think putting your family down and being a complete asshat about glorifying it, is going entice me into wanting to help you understand how to manage this issue. The fact that you could care less about their food allergies and would prefer instead to boast about how shitty of a man you are. Your drivel is lost on me you piece of shit human.


Wow. The new guy is triggered. You should loosen whatever thing it is that’s got your sphincter so tight. Hating on a guy you know Jack Shit about…makes you look a little deranged.


No….quite a lot deranged.


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## Wallrat (Jan 19, 2021)

MNichols said:


> Had a Grand trip where the PH's girlfriend decided on day 3 she was vegetarian, and despite my sending 2 emails about food, and the other meals did the same thing. When asked why she didn't say anything when she asked "what am I supposed to eat" I asked her why she didn't say anything, her reply was that 75% of the US doesn't eat meat, and therefore she wasn't expecting meat..
> 
> She came from deepintheheart of Oregon... The other 15 people enjoyed the carnivore menu... Got many kudos on the smoked meat and cheeses I brought.. Dead animal flesh was the order of the week..
> 
> ...


She was a prime candidate for a hike out at Phantom. The veg, I mean.


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## JHUrbina (Aug 19, 2021)

Wallrat said:


> She was a prime candidate for a hike out at Phantom. The veg, I mean.


Had two wonderful people on last trip on the edge of the pandemic (launch 3-5-2020, take out 3-22 and the world changed), vegetarian. I prepared for them, but we had two great cooks myself and another, and ate like kings and queens, so a little free range/grass fed/organic gourmet action can fix this too


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## Wallrat (Jan 19, 2021)

JHUrbina said:


> Had two wonderful people on last trip on the edge of the pandemic (launch 3-5-2020, take out 3-22 and the world changed), vegetarian. I prepared for them, but we had two great cooks myself and another, and ate like kings and queens, so a little free range/grass fed/organic gourmet action can fix this too


I wasn’t saying that vegetarians can’t be great people. It’s her hive mindedness that “75% of the population don’t eat meat” (a childish, silly statement), so she didn’t need to speak up for herself. Then, complaining about not being catered to? WTF? This is why I’m not interested in rando trips or group menus. I bring my food, you bring yours. Then, if all you want is fizzy water and broccoli, everyone is still happy.


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

BenSlaughter said:


> I wish they made those in a two-gallon size.
> That'd be ideal for taking frozen chicken, letting thaw for the first few days on the river, then opening up to add marinade the day they're to be cooked...
> Always a juggle with regular food saver bags.


Why not marinade before you freeze?


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## griz (Sep 19, 2005)

Wallrat said:


> ….lor group menus. I bring my food, you bring yours. Then, if all you want is fizzy water and broccoli, everyone is still happy.


amen. this is such a clutch concept to making trips frictionless and absurdly easy to plan. bring your own food,cook your own food and clean up after yourself. done. Fun, easy, week long trips done with a couple key emails. No spreadsheets, no 175 emails to plan a overnighter,ect. It’s just done.

a couple years ago, I planned a trip like this and one new guy was quietly expecting a shitshow. At the end of the trip, he came over and said how beforehand he didn’t get it but now he did and was blown away how well it works. lol.


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

griz said:


> amen. this is such a clutch concept to making trips frictionless and absurdly easy to plan. bring your own food,cook your own food and clean up after yourself. done. Fun, easy, week long trips done with a couple key emails.
> 
> a couple years ago, I planned a trip like this and one new guy was quietly expecting a shitshow. At the end of the trip, he came over and said how beforehand he didn’t get it but now he did and was blown away how well it works. lol.


SO, multiple kitchens? Seems this could turn into a cluster with multiple people trying to use the same kitchen, and looking for what they need for their particular meal that wasn't brought. I've had this proposed once on a potential grand trip, dealing with this for 20 days doesn't sound fun. Might work better on a small 3-4 day trip though.


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## griz (Sep 19, 2005)

MNichols said:


> SO, multiple kitchens? Seems this could turn into a cluster with multiple people trying to use the same kitchen, and looking for what they need for their particular meal that wasn't brought. I've had this proposed once on a potential grand trip, dealing with this for 20 days doesn't sound fun. Might work better on a small 3-4 day trip though.


yeah, folks on the buzz always like to jump to elaborate, big group 3 week grand trips on this concept like that’s all that’s done. that said, it scales just fine. been doing it this way for over 20 years. K.I.S.S.

And i’m not a better camps and gardens boater that sets up NRS catalog look alike camps each night and really don’t boat much with folks that do. I’d rather be fishing, hiking, lounging down by the river, reading a book than setting up someone‘s tarp over a big kitchen on a clear evening. the bc&g crowd will scoff but you’d be amazed how well you can eat and cook with one of these, a fryingpan and a cooler all while sitting in your camp chair shooting the shit with everyone…for reals.


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## BenSlaughter (Jun 16, 2017)

MNichols said:


> Why not marinade before you freeze?


My experience has been that teriyaki marinade can end up leaving a chalky and\or metallic flavour if left on the meat for more than about 24 hours.

Also, teriyaki has too much salt in it to freeze well. Tried that, too.


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## jbLaramie (Feb 1, 2021)

griz said:


> amen. this is such a clutch concept to making trips frictionless and absurdly easy to plan. bring your own food,cook your own food and clean up after yourself. done. Fun, easy, week long trips done with a couple key emails. No spreadsheets, no 175 emails to plan a overnighter,ect. It’s just done.
> 
> a couple years ago, I planned a trip like this and one new guy was quietly expecting a shitshow. At the end of the trip, he came over and said how beforehand he didn’t get it but now he did and was blown away how well it works. lol.


This seems like it would be more work for all involved but maybe you run a more minimalist approach to dinners. Interested to know how you work it and what kind of food everybody makes. 

Can’t imagine going this way for family trips though. Our last family trip had us eating grilled ham/creamed veggies, lasagna/garlic bread, gyro bowls and arroz com pollo for group dinners on the 4 nights of the trip. All were excellent and I didn’t have to cook or clean up after 3 of them. Wouldn’t give that up.


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## Wallrat (Jan 19, 2021)

Something worth considering is that if everyone does their own cooking, with separate menus, dishes and stoves, you’re minimizing the norovirus risk. That’s worth considering on a Grand trip. Or, in a group where you want “that guy” the hell out of the group. You can leave his dumb ass on a sandbar, knowing he won’t starve on your account. 
It doesn’t take much; butane stove, small skillet, 1liter pot. Really simple. Save the elaborate feasts for when you have running water.


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## Will Amette (Jan 28, 2017)

We always do "bring your own kitchen and food" for self-support kayak trips. I haven't done one in a while. On one of the last ones, two of our group got Norovirus. It was awful. That's even with each person carrying their own poop tube too. I'm not sure where we picked it up, but there ya go.

One thing is it's harder to do dish washing without a kitchen. Self-support kayak trips also don't carry a hand wash station.

In general, we still all eat at the same time even if doing our own meals. It seems as soon as someone starts prepping, everyone else thinks, "That's a good idea," so we all end up sitting together with a meal.

On a raft trip, though, I sure like to have one group meal per day and maybe a group breakfast on a layover day if someone wants to take on that task. It doesn't have to be elaborate, but it can. Simple is good.


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## Canyon Coolers (Apr 15, 2011)

Ok this is a little 'salesy' but it showed up in our inbox this morning and we can see the techniques he used to manage the cooler recently during a low water / warm water Canyon trip. Also I would add the jicama last forever if you need an especially long lasting vegetable for your family. (We pack those pesky vegetables on top or in a separate vegetable only cooler). 

"Just writing to say awesome product. This wasn’t its first river trip, but it was it’s first Grand run. Lined the bottom with blocks and froze water just covering them in a walk in freezer. Left Escalante on June 21st and launched June 22nd. The Ferry to Diamond. Took out on July 7th with most days temperatures in the triple digits. My cooler was the last to be open on day 13. I added three half blocks donated by a J-rig, but also cooled 36 warm beers on day 15. The pic is back in Escalante on day 18. I had some doubts but with a little diligence of keeping a wet towel under the Wetdreams cooler cover I had a huge chunk when I got home. Bitchin cooler guys! Thanks. "


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## aman (Apr 24, 2017)

I must apologize for the long delay in getting back to all of you. I had better things to do like running rapids and such... As Charlie himself has already said, I'm not here to get into an internet tragedy of arguing with keyboards. However, here I am trying to rationalize sanity for no reason other than principal. 

To Mr. Walmart: I'm not the new guy here. That would be you. And you don't know Jack shit about me either. So thanks for being the hypocrite, it only helps further my point here. I am only hating on a guy for calling his family dumb. And I know for sure this isn't the first occasion of his antics on this topic either. And somehow this is dumbed down into "hey I'm just trying to be funny here..." I don't have to know Jack shit about him except his internet message board ego does define him to those of us who don't personally know him. If you haven't figured that one out yet, we can define you as the idiot. As matter of fact these statements are what he is being judged upon, not who he is.

To Mr. Charlie: That's great that you raised kids you breed. That's great that you've had a long successful marriage. But do you really walk around the house calling your wife and kids idiots to their faces and get respect for that? Calling them dumb for having food allergies? I'm no shrink or anything but I'm also sure that's not the foundation for a long successful marriage. So why do it here? You claim humor. I claim small dick and need of boosting your own ego with little to no care towards your family you've completely disrespected on an Internet forum.

To all else: Sounds like I got it right, which is why it caused everyone else here to get their panties all ruffled up into their own tight asses. Yet somehow at the same time y'all deduce that I'm the humorless tight ass for not buying into his idiocy. Err, I'm sorry, attempt at baseless humor. Even Marshall called him out about why he kept referring to his passengers as idiots. I'm just calling it like it is. Fucking Charlie causes his own flames. If he or any of you other ilk lurking here can't handle it, don't post the shit here for all the world to see and comment on in the first place.

The real point that seems to be lost on quite a few of you is that it's an Internet forum. We all have opinions here. We're not always going to agree or get along. Don't be an idiot and you won't be called one. It's a pretty simple rule as far as message boards go.


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## Wallrat (Jan 19, 2021)

So; Charlie’s sarcastic humor is totally unacceptable…a fucking outrage! Your downright hostility and insults are fine. Got it. That sure reminds me of someone…but I can’t think of his name.
I know one thing. I’ll do river miles with him and his family whenever I can. They’ve all been great so far. With you? I’ll pass.


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## BenSlaughter (Jun 16, 2017)

Yup.
I don't see what Charlie said being any different than venting to his buddies at the bar(or wherever) about his wife or kids. 
Who hasn't done that?
(I mean, besides me, cause I don't have any, but I digress)
I'm sure he still loves them dearly.

I'm sure this guy⤴ is always a perfect example of kindness, no matter what may be ruffling his feathers. 🙄


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## aman (Apr 24, 2017)

I never invited you on a river trip but thanks for acting as though I did.


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## aman (Apr 24, 2017)

Venting at the bar with your buddies isn't quite the same as positing on a forum. It's quite a bit less personal. But there's a tact in how one chooses to handle themselves with integrity in either situation. One can also choose to act a fool and call people they love degrading names just as a child would. It's all choice. Sarcasm, one could say? Im missing the sarcasm and to uptight?

Name callers are usually the most offended when called names. And this is the attitude here that I can't understand so I spoke out. To be honest I wasn't ruffled at all by any of it. I just wanted to dish out to him directly the same lip service of what he was serving. And look where it got us, off topic and nowhere. Charlie, Walmart and even you Ben, being offended and acting as though "how dare I say such things." The hypocrisy of me doing such things is disastrous. If y'all can serve it, get ready to be served. I'm sure those of you types that need have the last word will get back to me soon enough. But I've said my peace.

The message remains. Don't be an idiot and you won't be called one...


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## hysideguy67 (Jul 15, 2021)

"Walmart" Now that's just mean


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## Canyon Coolers (Apr 15, 2011)

I have found texting and message boards do not convey tone very well, I've torched a few relationships over what was meant to be a casual joke. I've seen text battles even cancel Grand Canyon river trips. The Buzz has always had a 'lack of moderation' mixed with some great passion. That air / fuel mixture is just right to combust here. I didn't post to take sides, but to advocate for a little 'space and grace' in trying times. We all have our struggles.


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## Pinchecharlie (Jul 27, 2017)

Few things then I’ll personally retire from this topic .
Honestly aman you’ve read in a little more than I think Iam actually guilty for.
You’ve taken a pretty hard stance on what is clearly a joke between just a few of us. 
none of my kids even have food allergies
None of them are wanting in any way nor are they subject to abuse.
Your taking this stance but it’s out of context with the conversation I was having with someone else who was already laughing WITH me .
I will admit that’s my fault for thinking only these guys are here reading this shit.
If you are an intelligent mature guy you should not be all that offended by this . Maybe bored or disappointed that was how you spent 5 minutes but fighting mad? No something else is going on. Your local and you have a beef? I said I’d settle my debts with you if I had one with you? If I owe you or if you insist I will face up to you man just let me know. I don’t wanna be left unpunished for wronging you bro! Reach out! Otherwise stop spinning this chicken shit into chicken shit salad. It’s beneath you.


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## Heywood (Apr 12, 2019)




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## Wallrat (Jan 19, 2021)

aman said:


> To Mr. Walmart: I'm not the new guy here. FAIL
> I claim small dick. SUCCESS
> Don't be an idiot FAIL


So, mister not-new guy (with 30 angry posts)…who were you before you got banned (incredibly difficult to do here)? You must have _really _been a dick. But then…we’ve clearly seen that, haven’t we?


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## Wallrat (Jan 19, 2021)

So Charlie tells me he figured out who you are…that he was, well, there’s really no delicate way to say it..he _knew_ your mom. Or sister. I can’t recall.


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## hysideguy67 (Jul 15, 2021)

Wallrat said:


> So, mister not-new guy (with 30 angry posts)…who were you before you got banned (incredibly difficult to do here)? You must have _really _been a dick. But then…we’ve clearly seen that, haven’t we?


Careful. He may have some sweet frames and oar locks for sale. Don't piss this guy off


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## Wallrat (Jan 19, 2021)

I don’t think his mom would let him do that in the basement.
Anyway, what makes this douche think it’s his job/duty to go hating on Charlie? Did he wake up one day and put on his Captain Avenger cape and decide to be an Internet Karen? Apparently so.


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## hysideguy67 (Jul 15, 2021)

Maybe his mom's name is Karen and he's felt the wrath. I dated a Karen once


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## hysideguy67 (Jul 15, 2021)

This has gotten sooooo far off topic. Love it. Thanks Aman


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## hysideguy67 (Jul 15, 2021)

hysideguy67 said:


> Maybe his mom's name is Karen and he's felt the wrath. I dated a Karen once


Or 10 times


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## Wallrat (Jan 19, 2021)

hysideguy67 said:


> Maybe his mom's name is Karen and he's felt the wrath. I dated a Karen once


Man. I wouldn’t wish that on anyone.
Wallrats Rules For Rafters; Rule #1: When everything is your fault, it’s time to go


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## hysideguy67 (Jul 15, 2021)

Wallrat said:


> Man. I wouldn’t wish that on anyone.
> Wallrats Rules For Rafters; Rule #1: When everything is your fault, it’s time to go


I say stick around. The fun is just beginning!


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## dpwater (Aug 2, 2011)

Charlie makes most laugh. He's keen in some areas and otherwise willing. Judgment is an outward projection. Nobody needs to defend their points or get lambasted because somebody missed everything that led up to the
tripping point. Read all his posts. Very clear he's being funny... Especially loved all the FAD references. From yoga gear to vegan. Although vegan will remain and yoga will replaced with weightless travel in space in a raft like capsule. 

My response: GRACE. at the least. Forgiveness at once. What ever happened to love, peace and understanding? Where's that salt grain or grain of salt... Not all see the same... But they all see to greater or lesser degrees.


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## dpwater (Aug 2, 2011)

Charlie I wish you and your "Kardashian -like kids and Trophy wife" a brilliant trip. Shooters grill closed... Maybe for the gun thread. And to be on point I just nursed a head of lettuce for two weeks in a cooler.


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## aman (Apr 24, 2017)

Well sometimes you choose to pick a fight for the sake of humanity and by doing so your not being that humane at the same time. Charlie's grace is that in his last reply, he sheds light on my ignorance. I'm out of context because I'm not living on the buzz keeping up with all the running jokes. Hell, I rarely post at all as Walmart has already noted. However, his suggestion of "angry posts" is highly inaccurate. As this is my first thread I've even been considered a troll in (insert definition of angry posts here). And that's in all of my whopping 30 or so posts. So I apologize for standing up for humanity out of context and getting all of you internet junkies in an uproar.

You can call me the asshole D bag but, no my moms name is not Karen... 

The real point here is to stop over tripping your trip Charlie. Plan it, execute it and have fun. It's food beer and ice. If you gotta live on the buzz to figure that shit out, may your god bless you.

If I may, I will offer up one piece of advice though; become a cooler drainer. However be OCD about it and drain the cold water each morning into your day cooler and rotate beers into that cooler for the day. Keeps your cooler closed and keeps the beers flowing. Veggies, I don't know what to do with those.


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## Wallrat (Jan 19, 2021)

So you decided to start taking my friends inventory to “save humanity”? More like taking a cheap shot. You didn’t need to derail the thread with your hate.
Your original comments were unnecessary and mean spirited. Now your aw shucks weak justification of them falls short of actually apologizing. To. Charlie.
I’ll take you up on your invitation now…What an asshole.


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## aman (Apr 24, 2017)

In the long history of the buzz a lot of people have had misunderstandings. I'll add that I was attacking Charlie for his humor even if I didn't agree with it.

And you are right, my comments were mean spirited because I believe in what I was and will forever stand up for. Show respect, not negativity to all. Then we won't have these trivial arguments over how it's funny to put people down. Especially behind their backs and even more so with wives and children.

But does sarcasm not work for you anymore? I don't have enough miles on the buzz to be sarcastic with all of you sarcastic people? I thought it was all in good fun. Sure I took the bait and brought your mom into the fold too. But that's all behind us now. Hate me all you want for it, I brought it on myself. I'm the asshole, I'll own it for my words. However, my sake of humanity comments are accurate though. I attacked Charlie for the sake of being humane to our loved ones. Whats wrong with standing up for that cause? Even in the context of sarcasm I don't believe in labeling loved ones idiots, dumb or anything negative. I must be crazy for having these morals but hey it's fucking America, let's just keep shitting on everyone and claim; it's funny, I was just joking around. Why not try and use humor without putting anyone beside our own selves down? All this aside, once i learned the context of how Charlie was approaching this, I tried to get the thread back on topic, sarcasm and all. Because I figured that sarcasm works for you guys right. It's funny, just keep laughing.


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## Pinchecharlie (Jul 27, 2017)

Truth is (and according to my therapist) my identity here is a , a, …oh crap I forgot what he called it! Basically I get to be someone else a bit different. Maybe some would decide to be a better person but I end up trying to be funny and act like iam somehow capable. Iam not really a funny person and iam just a basic person as far as society is concerned. So I mask that by being on here I guess. I asked the guys to delete my account cause its become an unhealthy thing. I don’t think it’s cause of the site but cause iam using it in a unhealthy way. No one should really give a shit but you see how bad things are going for the world over alter egos and the internet. Shittn people are literally killing children and innocent people over a mismanagement of their perceived identity all the while fomenting a new and more brazen identity cause there’s no reality to it. There’s no good reason to be mean anymore for me. Iam at the end of this journey and I’ve watched it go bad for others over meanness and bitter stuff. Fuck that. It is really super satisfying in some bizarre way to say ,”oh yeah? Well…I just came on your moms face while your sister licked my butthole.” 
BUT…that’s not how our parents wanted us to act. And IN CLOSING, I’ve asked my wife and children and I think they answered honestly. They do not need or want you to champion them but did appreciate your concern and wish you well on down your road. Now on to important stuff like pins and clips and chevy and fords and don’t use this shuttle and the perfect nacho…peace and good will to all!!!! 
Except you. Yes you. You know who you are you fucking fuck. Lol


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## hysideguy67 (Jul 15, 2021)

Amen


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