# River Culinary Arts



## sarahkonamojo (May 20, 2004)

Since you paid some one to do an inadequate food pack on your last trip, you might not like the idea of doing it again. Instead I'd ask Canyon REO. Their food packs are generous.


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## sleighr (Nov 14, 2011)

Problem being... 1) I am a DIY kinda guy... 2) Poverty forces us into choices. I agree, PRO... Canyon Reo several others do a great pack... Just if I am not in full time employment, why not do what I can to keep costs low?


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## 86304 (Apr 15, 2008)

one trick to use:

make sure the first meal is gigantic, tons of carbs, more that anyone could possibly eat and then some. i'm talking leftovers.

if the first meal is a little short there will be a psychological fear of not having enough food. folks will overeat that normally wouldn't. an every man for himself kind of thing. 

also bring some desserts for meals. dutch oven stuff, those giant hershey bars, etc.
if a meal or two (or three) end up being a little short, you can bust those out and satisfy an angry (hungry) mob. the popcorn popper is a great idea also.

have fun,

bob


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## sarahkonamojo (May 20, 2004)

Someone you know in Flagstaff has the cookbook/foodpack from a REO/PRO trip. Copy it. Do the math. With food, many times, you get what you pay for. If you try to go cheap, people will be unhappy. A couple of nice meals and everybody is really impressed.
S


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## BarryDingle (Mar 13, 2008)

PM yakrafter. Or do a search for a thread by him,on the subject. DIY is the way to go,IMO. Save space and money


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## GC Guide (Apr 10, 2009)

Dan,
Typically on a trip with lots of paddlers one should plan on about 1/3 more food than a trip with raft passengers. Glad you had a good trip and got to keep your girlish figure!!


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## zbaird (Oct 11, 2003)

i always do half pound food breakfast, half pound food lunch and a pound for dinner. I have never had people going hungry and have never had absurd leftovers either.

The numbers are for on plate food so if you know something cooks down add a little more. When buying the food i take into consideration the trip, ie kayakers,age and sex. If it is a bunch of dudes i get the bigger size of whatever and it usually comes out a little heavy for my specs. if it is a kid trip or a bunch of cute passengers i get the smaller size. As long as it totals up to at least 2 pounds a day per person or so you will be good to go.

The idea about the first meal being big is good. usually i go big the first day or two. the leftovers from the first couple days you keep rolling over into the next meals. If you come up a little short the leftovers sell, if not they roll over. If the leftovers arent selling, that means people are full and you should be fine the rest of the trip. If the leftovers sell hard right away you may have to get creative. I always pack an extra couple jars pb and j and raw materials for baking bread in the dutchie. If all hell breaks loose and you ruin a cooler, flood a drybox, lose a boat(it happens), or plan light the pb/j and fresh bread go a long way to keep peeps happy. I hardly ever remember breaking into the pb/j but i always know its there if we need it.


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## yak1 (Jan 28, 2006)

I like the idea of a huge 1st meal. If you're going to have someone else do it consider Moenkopi in addition to Pro and REO. Also carry extra fast cooking carbs that you can cook up in about 15 mins after the water boils. Pasta, instant rice, raman noodles instant oatmeal. Don't forget the horse ovaries before dinner. Some thing to take the edge off. Instant humus, dried black bean dip, with some sort of crackers/bread, torts., If you can get them to keep from feeling ravenous things will last much longer. D.O. deserts are a big hit. Also look for those bags of dry soup mix the big ones like potatoes soup. It will help fill the edges and warm people up. Just wander around the grocery store and look for stuff that's high in carbs, easy and fast to cook, and figure out how to make it work with your menu. Also keep the leftovers handy. And don't keep cooking huge if you don't have to, dry stuff is a lot easier to haul than cooked stuff and garbage. Have a great trip.
(16 trips down the ditch)


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## BarryDingle (Mar 13, 2008)

yak1 said:


> Don't forget the horse ovaries before dinner.


Really? Or is that auto correct for hor d'oeuvres?


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## catwoman (Jun 22, 2009)

Never had the pleasure of cooking on the GC. Someday. I have cooked for 35 for 6 weeks at a geology field camp. One thing for sure- the colder the weather the more they will eat, so don't think that what ever woudl have been planned for a summer trip will suffice in December.


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## cataraftgirl (Jun 5, 2009)

We like to DO cook as much as possible, especially on layover days. DO dinner casseroles, desserts, and breakfast casseroles are hearty meals. DO bread & sweet roles are also favorites. Plenty of appetizers will take the edge off your power eaters. Oh.....and it goes without saying......Lots of chocolate !!!! One suggestion that someone had on another river food thread was to make a big thermos of hot soup to supplement lunches on cold weather trips. Our trips are usually 10-12 people, so portion control isn't very hard, and we usually have leftovers.
KJ


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## Avatard (Apr 29, 2011)

Be sure to D.O. someone you love in your tent


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## cataraftgirl (Jun 5, 2009)

Avatard said:


> Be sure to D.O. someone you love in your tent


That'll keep you warm on a december trip. But it'll burn calories and make you extra hungry


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## jeff_m (Jul 21, 2011)

Avatard said:


> Be sure to D.O. someone you love in your tent


Is it wrong that I wasn't sure what D.O. stood for until I saw this? Us kayaking scumbags don't have room in the boat for big cast iron pots, but D.O.s are petty popular nonetheless.


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## BCJ (Mar 3, 2008)

Hi SleighR. Based on 32 years doing this stuff, including 6 or 7 full and time commercial, IMHO I've come up with a few basic tenets/rules/guidance points as follows: (a) don't make food or gourmet cooking the focal point/emphasis of the trip, (b) divide responsiblity between boat captains/groups, so the burden of shopping, packing, carrying and cooking sort of gets automatically and naturally delegated from the outset, and (c) think low ice, as much as you can, and remember no one will get scurvy from being without fresh alfalfa sprouts for just a couple of weeks, (d) canned foods are good, especially canned meats, chicken, salmon, etc.; it's about being in the wilderness, not competing in Bob's Chili Cook-Off (although, on that point, one-pot dinners like Chili's, stews, etc., are a really good idea).

Last GC I was involved in I packed for myself and the TL, 6 days worth. I set up long tables in the garage and used masking tape to line out the days and meals. I used a home grade vacuum bagger and removed everything I could from original packaging. I focused on densely nutritious stuff. You can get soy milk in containers that need no refrigeration. Peanut butter, nuts, canned meats for protein. Eggs can be hauled un-refrigerated in a rocket box kept out of the sun. Freeze all meats, cheeses, butter, etc. before packing the coolers. 

Ultimately, the idea of dividing and delegating takes a lot of the stress out. Each person/group buys it, packs it and cooks it. No menus, lists, instructions needed. 

Bueno


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## sleighr (Nov 14, 2011)

In fairness to the friend that did the pack, I told him his price seemed a little light compared to REO and PRO. Do you need more money....no, I got plenty of money, plenty of food. From the posts I am seeing, he packed about 2/3 as much as he should have. Other point, that psych factor is REAL important. I felt stressed for food the whole time I was out. When I got back I found I had only lost five pounds. (I havn't had a girlish figure since fifth grade...) I hear fresh bread being talked about a lot. Yeast bread on a warmish day is no big deal... winter can be a challenge. I have thought about cinnamon rolls on a layover day... but what tricks are good for fresh dinner rolls say? Brown and serve or canned biscuits? I have done lots of Dutch Oven cooking in the driveway and on campouts... on the river just stash em in a kitchen box? Fire em with charcoal in a regular firepan or do you have a specially constructed storage container that doubles as a fire box? Thanks for the wisdom...Many good ideas for next trip!


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## catwoman (Jun 22, 2009)

SleighR, we do alot of of DO baking on river trips, and bake on skiing hut trips were weight is really important (but not in a DO, just in an old fashioned wood fired oven). It is great. We often use dehydrated eggs, and dehydrated milk. We will prepackage everything with a note about how much water and oil to add. Bisquick/Krusteaz is also good. We do more biscuits, brownies, corn bread and cakes than yeast breads. You can carry alot of dry bread making material in a little space, and fill up those that are extra hungry on the cheap. We ususlly use charcoal and put the DO on the lid of the fire pan, under the fire. Cold weather means you have to use more charcoal, and sometimes we supplement with embers from the fire. One cold october WW trip, the cake just never baked because we didn't use enough charcoal. We keep our DO in the kitchen box as it is very functional, the lid makes a great fry pan/griddle and the bottom makes a great big pot if we are not baking. You can gget a canvas bag to keep the DO from rubbing on stuf in the box, but we don't bother. Friends taught us to use crisco and coarse salt to clean the DO. Genius.


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## salmonjammer (Dec 14, 2011)

My Mom was a cook by profession. She taught me to simply figure out what one person will eat for each meal, multiply it out each item times the number of folks. On most products there is a servings per container. If you have big eaters and light eaters, then either add a little or subtract a little. Have used this method many times and it works great


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## carvedog (May 11, 2005)

sleighr said:


> In fairness to the friend that did the pack, I told him his price seemed a little light compared to REO and PRO. Do you need more money....no, I got plenty of money, plenty of food. From the posts I am seeing, he packed about 2/3 as much as he should have. Other point, that psych factor is REAL important. I felt stressed for food the whole time I was out. When I got back I found I had only lost five pounds. (I havn't had a girlish figure since fifth grade...) I hear fresh bread being talked about a lot. Yeast bread on a warmish day is no big deal... winter can be a challenge. I have thought about cinnamon rolls on a layover day... but what tricks are good for fresh dinner rolls say? Brown and serve or canned biscuits? I have done lots of Dutch Oven cooking in the driveway and on campouts... on the river just stash em in a kitchen box? Fire em with charcoal in a regular firepan or do you have a specially constructed storage container that doubles as a fire box? Thanks for the wisdom...Many good ideas for next trip!


Canned biscuits wouldn't work for me, maybe in the first few days. I have had decent luck getting bread to rise with one or two coals under a dutch and a couple on top or just slide the DO under the fire pan if you will have fire. 

Five Minute Artisan bread works great in a dutch and means you could bring raw ingredients ( less weight) and a container to mix and let rise. 

The have a cinnamon roll recipe that is easy too. 

I always pack enough for a couple of insurance meals. Canned pesto and some flat easy to pack pasta or angel hair or linguine and canned chicken - stuff like that to make up an extra meal. Leftovers that can be apps or a bigger lunch can help too. 

I have lots of tips that might help on portions but back to work for now. One thing is to get your participants to commit to how big of eater they are. The younger they are the more they eat is pretty true too.


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## hialtitude (Apr 24, 2007)

Cleaning the DO with coarse salt? Care to elaborate? I have not seen or tried that.


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## MountainMedic (Apr 24, 2010)

Ive done ice & salt to clean a coffee pot. Not sure about a do, but i have cast iron pan on my counter that got abused last night, lol

I'll try it...


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## BCJ (Mar 3, 2008)

*Bisquick!*

Sleighman - - regular Bisquick is good for bisquits and pancakes. I prefer Kodiak Cakes pancake mix to anything, but whatever it is, get the complete kind, just add water. We used to use Bisquick on commercial trips a lot, again, to make bisquits. Add some margerine, yum.

I may not be the best person to ask. I love good eats as much as the next guy, but when it comes to river trips, if the focus of the trip becomes what's for dinner, I get bummed. That's not why I'm there. To me meals should be hearty, simple and, well, simple. 



sleighr said:


> In fairness to the friend that did the pack, I told him his price seemed a little light compared to REO and PRO. Do you need more money....no, I got plenty of money, plenty of food. From the posts I am seeing, he packed about 2/3 as much as he should have. Other point, that psych factor is REAL important. I felt stressed for food the whole time I was out. When I got back I found I had only lost five pounds. (I havn't had a girlish figure since fifth grade...) I hear fresh bread being talked about a lot. Yeast bread on a warmish day is no big deal... winter can be a challenge. I have thought about cinnamon rolls on a layover day... but what tricks are good for fresh dinner rolls say? Brown and serve or canned biscuits? I have done lots of Dutch Oven cooking in the driveway and on campouts... on the river just stash em in a kitchen box? Fire em with charcoal in a regular firepan or do you have a specially constructed storage container that doubles as a fire box? Thanks for the wisdom...Many good ideas for next trip!


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## catwoman (Jun 22, 2009)

Cleaning the DO with Crisco and coarse salt... our friends always float with a tub of crisco and a box of kosher salt. Just scrape out the chucks with a spatula, grab a couple tablespoons of crisco and a similar amount of salt and scrub. Do not use any water! The amount of crisco and salt required depends on the size of the dutch and the amount of cleaning required. Wipe clean with a paper towel. Keeps the DO seasoned and prevents rusting. I first saw this a couple years ago, and was quickly convinced it is the way to maintain a river DO. It is probably ideal at home too.


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## cataraftgirl (Jun 5, 2009)

We use anodized aluminum DOs, not cast iron. Easy clean up with a few drops of detergent, then heat it up, and SHAZAM.....baked on bits come off.
I have used Rhodes bread & rolls with good success, and regular canned biscuits & sweet rolls. Never tried bread on cold trips though.
We eat super good on 7-8 day trips. We try to mix a few new ideas with old favorites. We enjoy river cooking, but I wouldn't say it's our primary focus on trips. We divide into meal teams, and we usually give the TL a break on meal prep if they want it. We figure they are already doing so much other trip prep. Most times if I'm TL, I still like to take my turn cooking.....because I enjoy river cooking.
I have never planned food for longer than an 8 day trip, so a GC trip would definitely require a bit more thought & planning with non-perishable food. The idea about extra pasta & pesto as a back-up plan sounds great. I think for a cold weather trip I'd go heavier on pasta with creamy (calorie rich) sauces.
KJ


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## Kendi (May 15, 2009)

Our back up river meal is a jar/packet of alfredo sauce, a can of chicken, shelf stable bacon and pasta.


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## sleighr (Nov 14, 2011)

The only time I "clean" a dutch oven is if I screw up and burn something. OR if it has been in storage a long time the oil in the pores of the metal will start smelling a little rancid. Then pour in a little water put the lid on and let steam over a low flame for a few minutes. Wipe out the results and oil the pot back up. 
Great ideas all! I have mywork cut out for me to re aquaint myself with the black iron and peach cobblers and cherry crisps dutch oven lasagna and fat elk roasts with rice and wild mushrooms. mmmmmmm Research.
dan


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## David L (Feb 13, 2004)

Kendi said:


> Our back up river meal is a jar/packet of alfredo sauce, a can of chicken, shelf stable bacon and pasta.


Very good. Effective and simple. Better than cans of Dinty Moore!


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## carvedog (May 11, 2005)

sleighr said:


> Great ideas all! I have mywork cut out for me to re aquaint myself with the black iron and peach cobblers and cherry crisps dutch oven lasagna and fat elk roasts with rice and wild mushrooms. mmmmmmm Research.
> dan


Seriously, especially for the river, ditch the cast and go with anodized. They are the shit and easy clean, and low to no maintenance.


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## randyk (Dec 23, 2011)

I used to take Boy Scouts on long back packing trips. We would dehydrate all of our perishables ( meat, chicken, veggies, sauces, etc.) and rehydrate when we needed them. You can do this with any perishable and needs no refrigeration. It taste way better than it sounds especially if you do it a week or so ahead and use good fresh products.
We also packed a anodized dutch oven once.


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## okieboater (Oct 19, 2004)

Do not believe the serving size on any can or box of food or mix. If you do, people are gonna go hungry big time. 

Especially way way too low are suggested servings of chips or cookies.

Make the recipe at home and go from there on how much to buy.


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## mtriverrat (Jan 29, 2012)

PRO rocks.


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## mdconner (Feb 1, 2011)

Advocate for Ray Jardine's lightweight backpacking in Trail Life: corn spaghetti for dinner, corn meal mush or johnny cakes (fried corn meal mush) that can be served with butter and syrup just like regular wheat flour pancakes for breakfast - corn meal tortillas rather than wheat bread - this stuff will stick to your ribs and very high in nutrition, much more nutrition than so-called enriched flour products


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## mdconner (Feb 1, 2011)

Also, fresh fish if you can catch them, any species will do because they all taste great if cooked fresh and, of course, fried after coated with corn meal


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## carvedog (May 11, 2005)

mdconner said:


> Also, fresh fish if you can catch them, any species will do because they all taste great if cooked fresh and, of course, fried after coated with corn meal


Hey McFly.. this is about meal planning for 16 on the Grand Canyon and what to do when you run out of food and good 'extra' meals to have for a backup. 


So you confused me there. You one of them there survivalists?


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## mdconner (Feb 1, 2011)

carvedog said:


> Hey McFly.. this is about meal planning for 16 on the Grand Canyon and what to do when you run out of food and good 'extra' meals to have for a backup.
> 
> 
> So you confused me there. You one of them there survivalists?


Guess so...kinda tough just surviving these days. Hey, wouldn't freshly caught fish qualify as an "extra" meal?


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## WindInTheWillows (Sep 8, 2011)

BarryDingle said:


> Really? Or is that auto correct for hor d'oeuvres?


I'd pick the whore's ovaries over horse ovaries any day


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