# Yampa Recommendations



## quinoa (Jul 5, 2009)

Lucky you! Yampa is amazing! Suggested Rapids to scout would be Teepee, Big Joe, and of course Warm Springs. Pull out at Teepee and Big Joe camps, both are above Rapids. Pull out river right at Warm springs. Good hike up starvation valley at big joe. Great hike at Harding to wagon wheel point. Signature cave and mantle cave are both short hikes and cool to check out. Favorite lunch spot would be the beach at Mitten park. 
Too much to add but that's my 2 cents. Have a great time!


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## denali1322 (Jun 3, 2013)

Just got off Yampa a week ago. I agree hike above Harding Hole camps (accessible from any of them) is awesome. One of the better river trip hike's I've ever done. Depending on your experience, I would definitely recommend scouting big Joe in addition to WS. Big Joe is labeled a 2, but as noted in another post, some rocks got moved into the river and it is clearly *no longer a 2*. I'd say it's now third biggest rapid in Dinosaur behind Hell's (Lodore side) and Warm Springs. Much bigger than Moonshine or anything on last day.


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## Electric-Mayhem (Jan 19, 2004)

I just off a week ago too. Unless you are super new to rafting, the only rapids that might need scouting are Big Joe (due to major changes including a big nasty hole at the top) and Warm Springs. The rest of the Class III rapids were just big wave trains that were easily read and run. The supposed Class III rapids in Split Mountain are pretty underwhelming in my opinion. Inglesby Rapid has a huge house sized rock that might be a pourover at high flows, but but there is a ton of room to go around on either side and the rest are just wave trains that you have to avoid getting pushed towards shore in.

I'm not a big hiker, but the Harding Hole side canyon was nice. There are a few hikes to historical sites that are worth doing in between Big Joe and Warm Springs. Jones Hole is a nice hike and it should be warm enough to enjoy Buttcrack falls. More petroglyphs below the confluence too...most of which aren't far off the river. Pretty much every camp has somewhere you can hike or climb to get up above the river too.

Have an awesome trip.


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## asleep.at.the.oars (May 6, 2006)

What are your camps?

Sent from my magical wireless thingy via mountainbuzz


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## restrac2000 (Mar 6, 2008)

Anderson (wanted a short day as some people have long drives to put-in)
Big Joe
Laddie 1
Sea Cliff 
Cove

Sounds like a few could be interesting if the river flows as predicted. It dropped noticeably the last week and there is still alot of SWE up in the mountains.

Hoping it rises faster than forecasted so we are further into the taper. It will be what it will be though, which is a phenomenal trip in a stunning place.


Phillip


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## restrac2000 (Mar 6, 2008)

They just found Razorback's in Dino on the Green so they are beginning the max release on the 31st below Flaming Gorge. What is the section from the confluence down like at 20k+? Looking more and more like we will see a higher than average flow during our launch. 

Phillip


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## Electric-Mayhem (Jan 19, 2004)

Whirlpool canyon might be extra swirly and the water will definitely be moving pretty quick, but honestly after getting down the Yampa you won't have any problems with stuff after the confluence.

I think it was about 13-15000 cfs when we ran it a couple weeks back now and as I said previously, the rapids were honestly pretty underwhelming. I think they might inflate the ratings due to it being a common commercial day trip (though why its that way in a guide book that most customers will never see is beyond me). The class 3's above the confluence on either the Green or Yampa are significantly larger and harder then the stuff below it. Nothing down there that I saw would get significantly harder with 5000 more cfs. If anything it might be easier since it will cover up rocks and let you take a sneak line around stuff. I've run it at ~3000 cfs too, and it was no problem.


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## asleep.at.the.oars (May 6, 2006)

restrac2000 said:


> Anderson (wanted a short day as some people have long drives to put-in)
> Big Joe
> Laddie 1
> Sea Cliff
> ...


If you get to the put-in quick and have time, you can pull off on the right just as the Weber starts to rise up, head off through the sagebrush ~100 yards from the river, and then hike up the sandstone incline to get some great views down onto the river at the start of the canyon. No good landing spots there unless it's low water though. There's an old corral behind Anderson, but just pinyon/juniper rambling rather than a destination hike as far as I know. It's a huge beach at low water, but lots of good tent sites in the trees if the beach is covered.

Someone already said pull into the Teepee camp to scout the rapid. It stays continuous for a good mile downstream, so it takes a long time to pick up swimmers or otherwise correct mistakes. Not a complicated line, there just isn't a pool for a long time after. You can hike up the Big Joe wash for as long as you have the energy & inclination. The camp is back behind the willows, it's kind of disheartening to pull in at first. You're already stopped, so scout... 

The hike up from Harding is pretty cool. Get up to the bench road and keep walking on out to wagon wheel point. Camps 1-3 are all landed on large rocks with waves that will eat through hypalon if left for very long. If you're just stopping to hike, sometimes you can go left above the island just upstream and scramble up the bank from above the first camp to catch the trail. Signature cave is both a cool feature plus good river history. Look for Jens Jensen's old mining cabin on the flood plain. There's a hike from Mather back up to the cliff overlooking one bend back upstream that is my favorite hike in the canyon. Bemoan the fact that you didn't have $3 million to buy Mantle Ranch as you float by. Mantle cave is a cool Fremont history stop. Laddie Park is beautiful, but the camps are backed by a cliff, so no hiking that I know of. Laddie 1 can be pretty soggy and you end up moving downstream into 2's lap to stay dry at high flows. We stopped there to wait out a 2 hour 6" snow storm one spring (pic).

It's a small eddy to stop and scout Warm Springs, be careful if you're a big group and / or there's already someone there. Watch out for the hole/wave river right after the river turns left below the bulk of the rapid. You can land on the right before the confluence and hike up the sandstone, or at the Echo Park "ramp" and either wander around looking at petros or hike up the road to whispering cave and further to another big petro panel, or along the trail towards Mitten Park and see other petros. At high water Whirlpool canyon can get some serious swirlies, but the actual waves are all just bob & point. I've never explored behind Sea Cliff, but it doesn't look promising for hiking. 

The Jones Hole Day Use tie-up is below the third camp and after the box elder trees have started to thin out. Petroglyphs & pictographs, a fun waterfall, trout fishing... The Cove is exposed to the afternoon sun with a rock wall rising up to the east of you like a big reflector and the Island Park bugs in full force. I wouldn't advise planning on getting to camp early to have a big last-night party. 

Split at high water is a blast. Don't get lulled into the hole at the end of the flat water before Moonshine. Moonshine is a monster wave train and DeSpain's rock can turn into a surprise hole towards the bottom. I watched a loaded cataraft do a cartwheel flip off the top of one wave in Moonshine somewhere in the mid or high 20's. SOB can be a crunchy mess on the right, fill your boat kind of waves, but it hasn't ever felt flippy to me. The left side is cleaner. Schoolboy just turns into a "don't flush into the wall". Inglesby evolves into a monster hole with a wave train on either side and then finally a huge wave train as the water comes up more. Literally 45 minutes or less from the top of the canyon to the boat ramp 8 miles downstream when it's pumping. 

You can stop at the beach just upstream of the boat ramp to organize if you need. Don't take more than one lane (2 vehicles) at the ramp or you'll get yelled at. 

Have a great trip. Hope this is useful. I've done a couple dozen trips on the Yampa, so let me know if you have more questions. It's a special place.


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## restrac2000 (Mar 6, 2008)

Thanks everyone!

Looks like the river is rising again. Still hoping the snowpack melts faster this week with the hotter temps and we see a drop before our launch. Would prefer to see the river less than bankfull with our small group and no one knowing the run. Forecast currently show the river dropping a day or two before we launch and peaking around 17k on the Yampa. Excited to see us closer to 13k on the day of our launch. Would love to see that drop another few thousand before we get to Warm Springs on Day 4. It will be what it will be though.

Its the time before the trip that experience that interesting combination of excitement and the reliable "fear" that comes with an unknown Class IV. Its a fun combo most days and to be honest "fear" never captures the complexity of the experience. 

Can't wait. Counting the days!

Phillip


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## johnovice (Jul 17, 2009)

Okay, Yampa folks, which one is Maytag?
1) There is a huge hole in the center relatively close to the top, middle of the wave train (NOT the huge hole center left of the tongue at the top) -- people usually go right of this one.
2) There is a large rock near the bottom center, that must create a huge hole at high water (I've only done lower water trips) -- you can go either side, probably right if you are stopping at the camp.

I've always assumed that #1 is Maytag, but realized that I actually don't know that for sure. Which is it?


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## Electric-Mayhem (Jan 19, 2004)

Maytag is the big ledge hole at the bottom on river left. The upper hole can flip you and cause problems, but its pretty easy to miss. All of the current pushes you towards Maytag, and its more of a ledge pourover style that can trap you for a while. You really have to setup in the right place and be pulling towards river right to miss it. 

On my one and only run through there a few weeks ago I got a little closer to it then I wanted to...





































We came through it just fine, but my passenger Sean did fall out as the boat went sideways (just after the last picture). I didn't feel like we were that close to flipping, but I just hit the edge of it. You can see 10-15 feet to the right it recirculates a lot more. This was probably ~13-15,000 cfs. I'll admit that while I didn't do the run I intended, it was kind of fun to take the big hit on this one. As Sean said afterwards, it was terrifyingly fun.

I still haven't seen a video of anyone hitting the part of the hole that will eat your lunch. Definitely some flips in this rapid, but nothing where someone goes into the deepest part of Maytag.

You mentioned a hole on river right at the top. Not sure its named, but it is also a fun hit. It can surf you over if you don't punch it hard, but I've seen people hit it sideways and not have it flip them. I think its level dependent though, and the lower it is the more ledge like it is. Luckily, at lower levels it appears the current doesn't push you towards Maytag nearly as much so you can run a more center line. At high flows its more of a wave hole and just make sure you tee up to it for the best run. Make sure you are ready to turn the boat and pull river right as soon as you get through it though. Here is we are hitting it...


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## restrac2000 (Mar 6, 2008)

Agreed. According to the NPS's report of the 2012 rockfall Maytag is on the taile endhalf of the rapid, though they don't call it by name. 

See the blue circle below:


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## johnovice (Jul 17, 2009)

Thanks for sharing the photos, Electric-M.
Based on them, I think Maytag is #2 above (what I know from lower water runs as the big rock near the bottom.)


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## johnovice (Jul 17, 2009)

restrac, that official photo is at such low water, it's hard for me to get my bearings! It seems like te big rock in the lower left of that photo may be the feature causing the big hole on the top left of the tongue.


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## restrac2000 (Mar 6, 2008)

The photo is from this NPS Report. There is commentary there. 

You can see from other photos in that report that the rock you are describing is in the upper most tongue in the entry of the rapid. It looks like it is near the left bank just downstream from the scout landing. Could be what you are trying to describe. 

I am also curious to know which feature is "Godzilla". Doesn't matter as I know I will be doing my damnedest to get away from both features.

Edit: it looks like the rock circled in blue may be Godzilla. I can't find a good photo to verify other than this report. But it seems like the first big rock below the 2012 rockfall is said to be the one that forms Godzilla. 


Phillip


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## johnovice (Jul 17, 2009)

FWIW, at the lower levels I've run it in the last few years (3K - 6K), there are lets say 5 features that stand out for me.
1) Big wave and hole very top, left of center, just left of tongue. Easy to miss, but looks pretty nasty if not.
2) Then, a big wave, let's say 3rd in wave train that you would hit if you did not move right after entering -- it's big but it looks like if you hit it hard and straight, you would be okay -- though the folks I have been with (including me) pulled right (a bit of an ugly swim if you had trouble here). Maybe Godzilla??
3) Then, a drop on river right by a little promontory that some folks scout to and photo from. Going sideways through this could be a problem -- I think this is E-M's second group of photos above. We had a raft flip this year, I think it was here, but I did not see it happen -- maybe they got sideways trying to pull away from it.
4) Then, a large rock in the center that is passable on either side -- a bit of a drop on the left (this is likely E-M's first group of photos -- probably Maytag?); at lower levels, I think taking the left drop avoids some additional rocks below on the right, though either way is doable -- the left line I did in a ducky a few years ago, sweet -- I went right #1, right of #2, crossed wave train, so left of #3, and left of #4.
5) Then, when you think you are done, if you get pushed right in the current, there is a drop (after the camp) on the far right -- rowed this one 2 years ago -- wife and I bounced around a bit, but no problem..

This is just my mental map based on lower levels so, of course, this morphs at higher levels, but I have no experience with that.


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## Daryl (Apr 16, 2013)

That hole at river right near the top is called Steve's hole I believe. The rangers coached us into catching just a little to the left of it so the slack water will slow the boat and allow you a stroke or two to set up for however you want to run Maytag. It's not a keeper hole but does have a fair amount of drop if you head right into it by hook or crook.

We ran it twice in in about 30 minutes because only a few of the oarmen wanted to run it while the wives and kids watched from shore. One set of guys ran the meat sideways-ish but the good 'ol 18' bucket boats kept the black side down. This was last June 25th at about 5600 if memory serves.

Have a blast, we did.


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## Electric-Mayhem (Jan 19, 2004)

johnovice said:


> Thanks for sharing the photos, Electric-M.
> Based on them, I think Maytag is #2 above (what I know from lower water runs as the big rock near the bottom.)


Yeah...as far as I can tell its the blue circle. That is a super low water picture though.

Maytag is the hole at the beggining of this video (the video starts at the bottom of the rapid and goes up)... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byekTyZmdQA

It passes over it again at 0:54 and then at 1:02 it hovers over the wave hole that you punch (second set of pictures I posted) before making the move right to miss Maytag. At lower water that wave turns into a more ledgey hole I think. Luckily at lower water its not pushing through as fast so you have plenty of time to go left of that hole and still make the move towards the right to miss Maytag (whether its a rock or hole). At high water you definitely want to punch that wave hole though, as running to the left of it with the faster high water current will push you directly into Maytag.

At 1:15 or so it hovers over the big eddy on river right that you want to catch at least the edge of which sets you up for the rest of the rapid. You can see some waves and holes on river left next to the eddy that I've seen flip rafts (there is a video or Aaron Ralston of 127 hours fame flipping there) in videos.

The rest of the video is a guy taking the unconventional left line down the rapid. Honestly, none of the videos do anything justice (as is usually the case) so keep that in mind.


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## restrac2000 (Mar 6, 2008)

Thanks for sharing. 

The river looks noticeably different between 8-10k and 10-13k. The forecasts are for us to see closer to 13k at the start of our trip. We hit Warm Springs on day 4. I am hoping it continues to drop each of those days. I am just much better at medium to technical water than pushy, bankfull conditions. 

Thinking I might bring the paddles so my passenger(s) can kick in my turbo boosters to hit those critical laterals. Its funny that I get nervous at this stage as I tend to enjoy those moments. There is just something about reading rivers and executing a good line that is satisfying.

Thinks for chatting folks.

Phillip


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## Electric-Mayhem (Jan 19, 2004)

restrac2000 said:


> Thanks for sharing.
> 
> The river looks noticeably different between 8-10k and 10-13k. The forecasts are for us to see closer to 13k at the start of our trip. We hit Warm Springs on day 4. I am hoping it continues to drop each of those days. I am just much better at medium to technical water than pushy, bankfull conditions.
> 
> ...


I was noticing that too. At 8k, there is a very sticky hole in the center middle that seems to wash out at higher levels. There is a grainy video on youtube from 1998 that shows a cataraft getting caught in it and flipping.

Honestly, at high water its not bad, just super fast and you have to set yourself up correctly at the top. Make sure to catch the large river right eddy and then punch the river right wave hole and quickly spin so you can pull right. You may still hit the edge of the hole, but on that side it flushes easily and is actually a fun hit if you are prepared for it. 

If you truly want nothing to do with the Maytag, you can almost literally scrape along the right bank and you'll miss it completely. A couple people from our group did that. I didn't want to do that since its less then elegant and I hate having to scrape oars on the shore, but I erred too far on the side of being away from shore.

Having some extra paddle power from passengers certainly helps too. I'm always most nervous just as I get in my boat after scouting up until the current takes you and its passed the point of no return. Not gonna lie, after having to scramble all over the rocks during the scout I needed a few minutes to cool down and then amp myself up to do the rapid.


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## quinoa (Jul 5, 2009)

Maytag will be obvious to you at 13,000. You will see it!


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## restrac2000 (Mar 6, 2008)

Yeah, from the experience I imagine it will be obvious. I am sure I will see it, feel it and hear it from a distance.

I just like to dork out on these rapids. This one is interesting because of its 2012 rockfall. Seems like a wonderfully dynamic canyon.


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## Paco (Aug 3, 2007)

Here's that hole at top. Not Mayag. Could _maybe _flip a boat


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## restrac2000 (Mar 6, 2008)

Nice shot.


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## quinoa (Jul 5, 2009)

It's legendary! Check out the film Warm Springs produced by Rig to Flip on Vimeo to get a great history lesson. It's an awesome film and will definitely get the juices flowing.


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## restrac2000 (Mar 6, 2008)

Are there any reliable places to fill up with water before Echo Park? Hoping to carry fewer water jugs if possible but not looking great from the maps.

Whatever happened in the last 24 hours is blowing up the forecast for the Yampa in the next 2 days. Still hoping the taper holds off for us until Day 4. Don't mind the speed to the first 3 camps but would love to see Warm Springs closer to or lower than 10k my first time.

Phillip


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## johnovice (Jul 17, 2009)

No water that I know of.
If you were about to die of thirst, maybe the folks at Mantle Ranch would take pity! I would double check on Echo water (but that's just me -- I usually do it early when there is no water at Deerlodge or Echo.)


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## swiftwater15 (Feb 23, 2009)

. I don't know about the current owners, but I heard that old mrs. Mantle once blew a hole in a hatch raft with a shotgun

Sent from my HTC One M9 using Mountain Buzz mobile app


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## restrac2000 (Mar 6, 2008)

Damn if isn't being stubborn and staying higher about 10 days more than normal.

Anybody know what Anderson, Laddie #1 and Sea Cliff are like at high water? Predictions are 11-15k on the Yampa and about 18k when we hit Sea Cliff. Just not use to this prescribed camp process.

Phillip


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## Electric-Mayhem (Jan 19, 2004)

restrac2000 said:


> Damn if isn't being stubborn and staying higher about 10 days more than normal.
> 
> Anybody know what Anderson, Laddie #1 and Sea Cliff are like at high water? Predictions are 11-15k on the Yampa and about 18k when we hit Sea Cliff. Just not use to this prescribed camp process.
> 
> Phillip


I can't say about the other ones since I haven't stayed there, but Anderson was fine for us at those levels. Not sure which camp at Anderson you have (I think there are 3) but the current there is pretty strong so be prepared to beach and jump out. Plenty of room for rafts, I think we had nine on our trip. If you have camp number 2 or 3, then I'd recommend aiming for 1 and slowly floating down if there isn't anyone already there. Its not hard, you just have to know its coming up and plan ahead. That is true of most of the camps at this level. If you are floating by and see it, it might be too late to stop. Its also only 4 miles in and we got there in about an hour from the put in, so no hurry the first day. Its a great camp and has plenty of space and shade.


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## restrac2000 (Mar 6, 2008)

Thanks.

Anderson Bottom is only listed as having 1 site. Are you thinking of Harding or Box Elder? I am hoping they did not change that as we love solitude on river trips.

We are planning on letting most of the other four parties launch first and in no rush to get on the river our first day. Was guessing it would be less than an hour at these levels so we might hit up some of the short hikes the first day.

Phillip


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## Electric-Mayhem (Jan 19, 2004)

restrac2000 said:


> Thanks.
> 
> Anderson Bottom is only listed as having 1 site. Are you thinking of Harding or Box Elder? I am hoping they did not change that as we love solitude on river trips.
> 
> ...


Probably....its weird how they all mesh together. I think you are right though...just the one site. We stayed at Harding #2 the second night, so that was maybe what I was thinking. Definitely don't plan on a long day. Our second day between Anderson and Harding was still only three or four hours and that was 22 miles or something like that. We just floated and didn't really try to make any time either.


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## wshutt (Jun 20, 2013)

Philip,
We got off just over a week ago (then a quick turn around for Deso). It was close to 16,000 when we put in and dropped each day. Last year it was 14,000 when we put in. 
Anderson camp should be easy to get into - we stopped just upstream for lunch and a quick hike up the wash, there was beach showing. We hung to the right at Big Joe and always stay fairly hard right at Warm Springs except for the one time when the water was much lower. I didn't row this year as I have a wrist problem but last year I rowed and had a bit of an out of seat experience at the first ledge/hole in Warm Springs but after being pulled back in by my passenger was able to take a couple of pulls and was well clear of the maytag hole - so as long as you are over you will be fine. 
The rapid that causes us most problems seems to be Moonshine, last year I got surfed and scared (I'm easily scared when by myself on the little cat:roll and only discovered later that one of our oarsmen had been ejected by that same wave. This year despite having marked in the map "STAY LEFT" we had a raft flip on that same wave (not ours!), seems that if you are not far enough over it really pulls towards the wall and hole/flipper thing in the wave train. 

Hikes: from Laddie Park you should be able to ferry across to hike up Red Canyon, we did a short hike up there last year. I looked at it as we went past and thought it would be possible from that camp.
A couple of us did a great hike from Harding up Bull canyon along the road and then down Johnson Canyon - it is a long one. 

Have fun, I love that river trip. 

W


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## DoStep (Jun 26, 2012)

Not sure if the OP has left yet, but here goes...

Just got off, flow stayed pretty much at 13K through the entire trip. Anderson hole should be no issue for landing or parking and is only a one hour float. Leisurely morning at launch is a natural strategy when you only have a one hour float ahead. Big Joe same deal for landing and you can scout it from camp or even better from the groover! The wash at camp provided for an excellent swimming hole in the heat of the day. Laddie 2 had some current on the beach so we made sure to leave a little space between boats as they pulled in. Sea Cliff was easily accessible. Didn't take note of conditions at Cove. Skeeters started coming out a little (Jones Hole was pretty damp), but nothing over the top, just a little DEET needed is all. 13K provided for easy miles, we had plenty of time every day for side activities. Just so you started right in Warm Springs, the current ran most everything to the right of the Maytag hole, one would have to either completely blow the line or work hard to intentionally get into the hole. Regardless, everyone pulled right like mad with no incidents for the 30 or more boats we watched (we camped at warm springs). Big Joe had a clean obvious line between the two holes. Nothing else required scouting for the capable boater, Split Mtn was fast and fun. Great wildlife trip including baby owls, swimming moose, helgramites and scorpions, and a bunch of trophy elk racks big enough that even the lowly antler poacher would have to think very hard about rigging them to a raft and risking injury or puncture. Signs of Fremont all over the place, on a side hike we came across a small, freshly revealed fire pit complete with pre-cracked rocks and chipped tool parts. Most of us thought it was a pit from the 70's or something, but we had a couple experienced archaeology types along that set us straight. I could go on. And on, and on...


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## restrac2000 (Mar 6, 2008)

Thx. In vernal about to leave hotel. No rush to launch with Anderson as a first camp. Can't wait to see the canyon and monsoon cycle started yesterday= shade in afternoon.

Thx for all the advice!


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