# Toughest shuttles, clearance needed?



## asleep.at.the.oars (May 6, 2006)

I've driven the Gunny Gorge put in road in a stock 2wd F-150 as well as a '90's Ford van with 2wd on a dry day without difficulty, needs 4x4 when it rains, but still doesn't need a lift kit. 
Maybe someone else knows of something burlier, but IMHO that lift is for looks and a way to suck more gas rather than getting more access.


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## Learch (Jul 12, 2010)

What kind of truck did you buy? If it's a half ton Ford, Chevy, Dodge, or Toyota, then you can do a simple level kit. They are typically in the 2 inch range, and will provide space for a 1-2 inch taller tire. You will gain 3 inches or so of extra clearance under the front suspension, usually the lowest point on newer trucks. 
If you go any taller, the lift prices go up a lot and you really don't gain much more in clearance. The 4-6 inch lifts drop all components down as much as the lift is advertised, so you only really gain clearance by the size of tire (Under the differential) 
You will gain more capability with a smaller lift and going more prepared. You can take a stock truck a lot of places with experience and ingenuity. I've been stuck a few times, but have always made it out. I install lifts as part of my job and I was a recreational four wheeler for a while.


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## k2andcannoli (Feb 28, 2012)

Cheat canyon, wv shuttle is brutal. Many of Subaru have swiss-cheesed their oil pans on that "road".

We always joked that its a class 4 run with a class 5 take out.


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## carvedog (May 11, 2005)

Going down into the Bruneau canyon can be a bit rough. I got out and walked one time.


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## Learch (Jul 12, 2010)

Bruneau Canyon came to mind. We took out there in May one year (Jarbidge trip) and it had been pissing on us for 4 days straight. Even the road on top was bad (out of Bruneau) I've heard some of the Owyhee's roads can get like that too. We came out of Leslie Gulch when I was 13, but it was dry. We only had to worry about overheated vehicles and flat tires. 
I took my Legacy on a kayak trip last Sunday and I kept dragging the undercarriage in the gravel on the roads. I think I need to upgrade to a Suburban soon LOL. Those have the favorites of my group of paddlers. The aren't perfect at anything but they do a lot of things. (tow, 4wd, haul people, etc)


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## Kendrick (Jul 8, 2010)

I got a 2nd Gen 2wd Manual Tacoma. 

Yeah, I would probably like to avoid the mud, but I know from experience 2wd isn't necessarily excluded from 4x4 roads. 

It already has more clearance than my Corolla did. I think stock clearance is 6". But the stock shocks would probably put the pickup even lower to the ground if I had my friend(s) and boats packed in. 

I definitely don't want an over-the top lift for looks. I secretly also want to be able to do oil changes without the need for a jack, so 2-3" might just be enough. Slightly bigger tires may also help or be all I need. 

Thanks for the first-hand experience and help.


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## shappattack (Jul 17, 2008)

Learch said:


> Bruneau Canyon came to mind. We took out there in May one year (Jarbidge trip) and it had been pissing on us for 4 days straight. Even the road on top was bad (out of Bruneau) I've heard some of the Owyhee's roads can get like that too. We came out of Leslie Gulch when I was 13, but it was dry. We only had to worry about overheated vehicles and flat tires.
> I took my Legacy on a kayak trip last Sunday and I kept dragging the undercarriage in the gravel on the roads. I think I need to upgrade to a Suburban soon LOL. Those have the favorites of my group of paddlers. The aren't perfect at anything but they do a lot of things. (tow, 4wd, haul people, etc)


This is the best Owyhee Rig around (not mine)









Chains are sometimes a lot more important than lift:
8 Jason belly crawl putting on chains - YouTube

11 Muddy drive - YouTube


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## stubby (Oct 13, 2003)

If you're kayaking then definitely the SF of the Crystal. Access is every bit as bad as the books make it out to be. Shuttle is walkable once you're there, but it takes two hours to travel 5 miles.


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## bobbuilds (May 12, 2007)

stubby said:


> If you're kayaking then definitely the SF of the Crystal. Access is every bit as bad as the books make it out to be. Shuttle is walkable once you're there, but it takes two hours to travel 5 miles.


This road was the reason we went the way we did with a shuttle truck.

The road to the crystal kicked the shit out of our astro van, and it was then I vowed to get a better rig.

We bought that truck you saw. and I will never take it to the crystal or to obj.

Our new approach is to take a 4wheeler with us for roads like that.

When we go up to crystal this year, the truck will stay parked at a buddys in marble and we will ride in on utvs and dirtbikes.

1. It is hard to drive 200 road miles and then subject your truck to a rough 4x4 road, if you hook a brake line or bust a drive shaft you will not be going home that night

2. We came to terms with; yes, we want to huck our stuff, but we need to get home, and it was the crystal that put it all in perspective.

3. use truck to get there, then use quad or dirtbike to get back there.

Stoked for you on your new truck!!!! take the scooter and lets go to gore this weekend and break it in, no pun intended!!


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## Learch (Jul 12, 2010)

Kendrick said:


> I got a 2nd Gen 2wd Manual Tacoma.
> 
> Yeah, I would probably like to avoid the mud, but I know from experience 2wd isn't necessarily excluded from 4x4 roads.
> 
> ...


Did you get a Pre-runner style Taco, or is it a regular low slung 2wd? Fabtech Motorsports makes a 3 inch lift that should accommodate a 29-30" tire for a 5 lug 2wd. Toyota started building 2wd Tacomas on the 4wd chassis at around the turn of the century and they call them pre-runners. They stand just as tall as the 4wd models, just sans a transfer case and front axle. Another thing you might look into is a set of rock rails and a limited slip rear differential. 
Rock rails are essentially small diameter "Nerf bars" that are welded or bolted to the frame that can support the weight of the truck. You can then carry a hi-lift jack and use the rock rail to lift an entire side of the truck at a time to change a tire or get unstuck. 
Both rear tires spinning can be a huge help, especially in a 2wd. However, it's a pretty big expense. You can buy and install an automatice locking differential for cheap, but they make driving in snow and ice flat scary. A limited slip typically has enough give that you can drive safely in snow and ice. 
You can go with a selectable locking diff, and those are the best of both worlds. Hope this helps


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## Pizzle (Jun 26, 2007)

Save your money, burley Off Road vehicles aren't needed in co where 90% of the paddling is road side. If we were talking about The sierras the story would be different. 
If you want some big stupid tires that will destroy your gas mileage checkout treadwright.com, you can get a set of BFG all-terrains or mud terrains for around $500. They are retreads but there are a lot of dirt bags rocking them with zero issues, myself included.


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## Kendrick (Jul 8, 2010)

bobbuilds said:


> Stoked for you on your new truck!!!! take the scooter and lets go to gore this weekend and break it in, no pun intended!!


Your plan makes a lot of sense. And yeah, I forgot which trip it was that gave your Astro trouble. I don't currently have the means to easily put the scooter or any bike really in the back of the truck. Did you mean your truck? We'll talk!

I'm sure my kayaking will take me further from Colorado eventually, but I'm not too worried about 4x4 ability for that at the moment. Mainly just looking to have "just enough" truck for just about everything in Colorado, given the right choice of tires/chains-when-needed, etc. 

It's not by any means my work commuter, so I am not super concerned about fuel mileage. But I'm always fuel-conscious anyway, probably more than I should be, so I probably wouldn't ever completely throw that concern out the window; especially because having the windows rolled down causes drag. 



Learch said:


> Did you get a Pre-runner style Taco?... *snip


Well it's a second gen regular cab 2wd drive taco. I think all Tacomas that fit that description are the same. If I recall correctly, the stock clearance is already 6"; nothing to write home about, so probably not "pre-runner style". Either way, whatever clearance it currently has, it loses some just by adding 100-300+ lbs. 





Pizzle said:


> Save your money, burley Off Road vehicles aren't needed in co where 90% of the paddling is road side. If we were talking about The sierras the story would be different.
> If you want some big stupid tires that will destroy your gas mileage checkout treadwright.com, you can get a set of BFG all-terrains or mud terrains for around $500. They are retreads but there are a lot of dirt bags rocking them with zero issues, myself included.


Saving money is the plan regardless. I want to avoid dumping a thousand or more in aftermarket parts if I don't have to. I already did that with the scooter and I think I've had my fill of that game for awhile. I want to do all my own work on this truck and avoid over-priced crap if I don't need it, or could make it myself.


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## Kendrick (Jul 8, 2010)

So I found with a simple tire upgrade and no aftermarket stuff, my 5-lug Tacoma can gain about 2" using the highest-recommended tire size of 235/75/15. Should be plenty! Definitely would like some rock-sliders and stuff at some point, just to help protect my investment, but that shouldn't cost much if I throw them together myself. Having chains for back-up in case of mud or snow is always a plus. I honestly didn't think of that for mud. 

Thanks for the feedback and help. Tires aren't cheap, but need replacement regardless. Will probably upgrade them when it comes time to replace the stock 215/70s, but possibly sooner, depending on the need.


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## Kendrick (Jul 8, 2010)

Edit: I meant 1" gain in height. With some free modding, can go a little bigger, probably plenty of clearance for my needs. Anywho thanks again.


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## ZGjethro (Apr 10, 2008)

I have to say, the Bruneau, for the fourth time, was probably the toughest shuttle for me. The worst part was the old local dude drove my 4runner back out with the windows all open and we had 1/4" of dirt coating everything.

The Crystal gorge shuttle is a piece of cake for any stock truck based vehicle or SUV. The north fork of the Crystal is a little tougher. The worst part is crawling along behind others and dealing with passing opposing vehicles.


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## Kendrick (Jul 8, 2010)

Oh yeah, the dreaded traffic on a single-lane dirt/rock road. Isn't it uphill drivers that yield to downhill? Or is "he who has the most lug nuts wins"??

So I did the math, and with a simple "black box mod" on my truck (deleting some dead bulging weight added to my particular truck), I can fit it with 30x9.5r15 tires, for 1.57" extra clearance over stock. When it comes time to get said tires, I will probably go with the more street-friendly type and just have chains for the really bad terrain.


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## caverdan (Aug 27, 2004)

Kendrick said:


> Oh yeah, the dreaded traffic on a single-lane dirt/rock road. Isn't it uphill drivers that yield to downhill? Or is "he who has the most lug nuts wins"??


I'm afraid you have it backwards. Downhill yields to uphill. :mrgreen:


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## bobbuilds (May 12, 2007)

Yo k-chill, hit me up when you are ready to build rocker gaurds and such.

I was an avid wheeler years ago and can build any kind of gaurd bumper or whatever you want to do.

I can show you how to modify the bumper to get more apprach angle front and rear.

Also we could build som differential cover protectors, and upgrade your brake lines to stainless steel.

so much fun stuff!!!


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## abron (Nov 19, 2004)

So at the risk of giving you another interweb mind vacuum... lol. 
you should to check out tacomaworld.com its is an invaluable resource for all things taco..... From lifts to tires to floormats, ljghts and used stuff. Like the buzz for your truck. With classifieds and eerything. Also Look for a section called free and cheap mods. There are bazillions of useful mods for toys. Like adding extra d-ring tie downs for the bed.. Or the hose-clamp tailgate mod to prevent your tailgate from getting stolen. Thats a $.75 mod....
Or the diff breather mod. Thats important for water crossings..
Beyond that i wont get into it now, but i geeked out on my toyota for 3 yrs, got a good start on how i wanted to get it... and then stopped fixating on improving it.(we also had a baby, and had no more spare $$$ for extracurricular shit) i also dont go on tw as much because i would rather go kayakjng then wheeling... Trucks are there to get you to the river...


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## atg200 (Apr 24, 2007)

With my Taco, I waited until the stock suspension was worn out, and then I put on an Old Man Emu 2.5" lift kit and bigger wheels/tires. I could go anywhere that was even remotely sensible with that thing. Even on gnarly roads I passed lots of jacked up Jeeps - the driver in general is more important than the gear.

On a 2003 TRD Tacoma, putting on the 2.5" lift, bigger wheels, and bigger BF Goodrich A/T tires cost me about 1-2 mpg as long as I kept the speed reasonable. If you want to drive fast on a windy interstate it can get bad.


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## adgeiser (May 26, 2009)

the dreaded MPG loss can be mitigated... a bit.
I have a jeep jk with the old man emu 2.5 lift, 34 inch tires, after market rear bumper, massive cage style rack with a big basket and I get 20-21 MPG on average. (for reference a stock jeep jk gets 19 mpg)

the key is to upgrade the parts on your engine as well. I have a Banks cold air intake, Banks cat-back exhaust and have it all super chipped.

remember weight will kill your gas milage... and any cyclist will tell you rotating mass is the worst. But getting more air in and out of your engine helps it work more efficiently... the added power can be fun but if you drive reasonably it equals better fuel economy. 

with all that said, I say go for it. Build the rig you want to drive. just remember you dont have to do it all at once.


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## gmmccalden (Apr 23, 2013)

You should just trade it in for something, anything really, with 4 wheel drive. If you are planning on going on back roads of Colorado without it your asking for trouble. All the clearance in the world won't help you if you can't make it up and out of the hole...

Save your money, a lift kit is not the answer. Don't want to sound like a dick, but that's my experience.


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## abron (Nov 19, 2004)

atg200 said:


> With my Taco, I waited until the stock suspension was worn out, and then I put on an Old Man Emu 2.5" lift kit and bigger wheels/tires. I could go anywhere that was even remotely sensible with that thing. Even on gnarly roads I passed lots of jacked up Jeeps - the driver in general is more important than the gear.
> 
> On a 2003 TRD Tacoma, putting on the 2.5" lift, bigger wheels, and bigger BF Goodrich A/T tires cost me about 1-2 mpg as long as I kept the speed reasonable. If you want to drive fast on a windy interstate it can get bad.


OME is the shiznit. especially the dakar 7leaf pack. i have pretty much the whole OME Lift pieced together w/ bilsteins instead of the OME nitrocharger shocks. i cant say enough good stuff about the whole OME setup. stock leafs were so wack its almost laughable they churn em out like that. put any weight in the bed and theyd bounce all over the place. no bueno. I have a shell, and sliders and w/ the dakars, its always smooth, loaded or not, camping gear or a load of rock or whatever. 



gmmccalden said:


> You should just trade it in for something, anything really, with 4 wheel drive. If you are planning on going on back roads of Colorado without it your asking for trouble. All the clearance in the world won't help you if you can't make it up and out of the hole...
> 
> Save your money, a lift kit is not the answer. Don't want to sound like a dick, but that's my experience.


yup....this is the truth. no one wants to disrespect a persons choice of vehicle, but you can waste a lot of effort trying to make an orange out of an apple, and still have an apple. (or a lemon...hah  see what i did there.) 
TW has tons of options to trick out your 2wd tacoma, but it will meet its limit at some point, and cause you grief. plenty of folks have 2wd paddling rigs. just know when to park it, and hitch a ride. those runs are usually easy to identify, and not frequent, unless you're running the NF Crystal or whatever all the time. 
that being said i would never buy a 2wd truck, unless it was a specific work truck, or a classic, because thats part of my common sense criteria. not getting stuck that is. i researched trucks for about a year before i found mine, and i got really lucky i think. its been a great truck. i count on being able to load er up, drive to whatever spot by the river and pacopad it in the back. and sometimes you have to romp a bit to find a good spot to sleep. 
and yes, my mileage pretty much sucks, @ 15mpg +or - ... i pay year round for that reliability.... (mpg with a grain of salt.... with DCLB,shell,sliders,ARB bumper,winch and 270/70/R16 Duratrecs)

i used to have a TDI jetta and that was a badass budget paddling mobile. 1/2 tank of gas all the way from SF to Gunnison no problem, and not exactly driving conservatively. (avg 80-90mph when conditions allow) but that car would high center on a parking block if you didnt park super carefully. it for sure had to be parked at pavements edge if it was rough. i miss the mileage on that car for sure, but a truck is the proper paddling rig for most of us.unless you can afford a 4wd sportsmobile or whatever....


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## Kendrick (Jul 8, 2010)

Thanks Bob. As always, you rock. I don't want my wrenching to overshadow any paddle-crafting we do though, lol. But yeah, I would prefer to have some of that under-carriage protection and make my own topper. Having it done by a shop and getting a ready-made ARE/Leer costs thousands. 

4wd definitely has its advantages, however, I wouldn't shun 2wd as completely inferior. I am not planning on rock-crawling or offroading just for the sake of it, mainly just wanting to be able to get everywhere to paddle. Tire-choice, the nut behind the wheel, etc, is what matters most. We all have our preferences and I can definitely see why some (or most) would set a '4x4' standard for their own off-roady vehicles, but you may be surprised what 2wd can do.


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## carvedog (May 11, 2005)

Kendrick said:


> Thanks Bob. As always, you rock. I don't want my wrenching to overshadow any paddle-crafting we do though, lol. But yeah, I would prefer to have some of that under-carriage protection and make my own topper. Having it done by a shop and getting a ready-made ARE/Leer costs thousands.
> 
> 4wd definitely has its advantages, however, I wouldn't shun 2wd as completely inferior. I am not planning on rock-crawling or offroading just for the sake of it, mainly just wanting to be able to get everywhere to paddle. Tire-choice, the nut behind the wheel, etc, is what matters most. We all have our preferences and I can definitely see why some (or most) would set a '4x4' standard for their own off-roady vehicles, but you may be surprised what 2wd can do.


I vote for the 4x4 if you are serious about access. 

Just recently coming off the MF Salmon, we were met with the worst road conditions I have seen in 10 or 15 years. This is on a road that normally you wouldn't think twice about driving in with a 2WD vehicle. Three inches of rain changed all that. Thank God the van was AWD. And it worked. The road bed was so soupy it just pulled you all over and generally towards the rive the whole way out. 

We would have been camping there in 2WD.


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## ZGjethro (Apr 10, 2008)

abron said:


> OME is the shiznit. especially the dakar 7leaf pack. i have pretty much the whole OME Lift pieced together w/ bilsteins instead of the OME nitrocharger shocks. i cant say enough good stuff about the whole OME setup. stock leafs were so wack its almost laughable they churn em out like that. put any weight in the bed and theyd bounce all over the place. no bueno. I have a shell, and sliders and w/ the dakars, its always smooth, loaded or not, camping gear or a load of rock or whatever.


Truth here. I lifted my 99 4runner 2" with an OME kit. Not only that, I went with stiffer springs so cornering and towing and gear hauling are better. The only problem was the OME shocks. I did not get a lot of life out of them and I am thinking of replacing them with Bilsteins,


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## Kendrick (Jul 8, 2010)

OME is pretty much not applicable to the 5 lug variety. It's a sweet kit though, I admit. On a budget, the Bilstein 5100s and add-a-leaf is a nice option, but also not applicable to us 5-luggers. 

I forgot to mention, I did register for Tacoma World. After a couple days, I realized what limitations I might encounter with 5 lug, etc. It's quite the maze of information though, so thank you for laying out some of the more important things to look for. 

With the mud and rain described above, I would think to slap on those chains, too. 4wd or not. 

About the only lift kit ready-made for the 5lug 2nd gen tac is of course the add-a-leaf for the rear, but spacers for the front. I'm probably not going to worry about the lift too much, but it's tempting for only $200. Problem is, spacers are far from ideal for lift-type (at the bottom of the list, in fact).


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## 2kanzam (Aug 1, 2012)

k2andcannoli said:


> Cheat canyon, wv shuttle is brutal. Many of Subaru have swiss-cheesed their oil pans on that "road".
> 
> We always joked that its a class 4 run with a class 5 take out.


 
meh...it's better than it used to be.


Anyone drove to the river left take outs on the Gauley River WV below woods ferry and the one above Koontzs' bend? (my guess is no.)

Yowza. 

A few outfitters even bring a minibus to below wood's ferry, couldn't imagine the pucker factor for the passengers-particularly out-of-staters. I know I've needed a change of pants while backing down that after coming bumper to bumper with a bus. And a wheelie bar helps to go back up the one to Koontz's bend.

Regardless there aren't many places you can't get a suby if you are careful. (I drive a legacy at that)


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## efranz (May 12, 2009)

asleep.at.the.oars said:


> I've driven the Gunny Gorge put in road in a stock 2wd F-150 as well as a '90's Ford van with 2wd on a dry day without difficulty, needs 4x4 when it rains, but still doesn't need a lift kit.
> Maybe someone else knows of something burlier, but IMHO that lift is for looks and a way to suck more gas rather than getting more access.


I used to be able to get to the Chukar Trailhead for the Gunnison Gorge in my Subaru. The heavy rains this summer really did a number on the road. Any 4WD pickup should have enough clearance, though a late model Chevy I used recently was scraping here and there. The road is very rough now.


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