# River Etiquette



## pinemnky13 (Jun 4, 2007)

So we went on the upper c this weekend and brought along a group of freinds some of whom were not boaters so they could have some fun with us and see what it's like to poop in a groover and such when a couple of things happened that I'd like to get feedback from. The first thing is we saw a boat full of younger rafters not wearing pfds when one fell out of the boat in fron of our campsite we run down to the beach and see that one has thrown a rope to the guy in the water and got him back in the boat. what we didn't see was the guy who jumped into the water to retrive a paddle. we realized something was wrong and went back down and saw this kid waist deep in the middle of the river. so rope in hand we went down to pull him out, the kid was shivering cold wearing a cotton t-shirt no PFD no river shoes a pair of socks instead. We walked him down to his group and they were all shitfaced(They called me a sober guy when I had been at camp since 2 having beers and playing Bocci Ball So ikne they were trashed) We gave them a lecture on wearing your PFD, watch out for the Ranger at Radium and sent them off. I now see why the BWI law is what it is, and I make sure to keep it under control on the river now so I don't have to deal with a ranger or the sheriff when going home.
Then about a half hour laetr this guy pulls up looking for his freinds, we told him they were not here, asked him what kind of boat he was running and what his freinds looked liked(after we gave him a beer) we recognized the boat and the guy we had meet him earlier by the hot springs while floating through and told him that they were probably at radium(which was where his freind was) so the dude goes and grabs another beer and walks over to the grill where we were cooking making comments about how good the food looked and all that. My girlfreind did not like the situation and asked him to show us his boat(His boat was cool though) when we saw his gear bag, and no cooler. (No cooler?) and he's having our beer and staring at our food. Thats when my girlfreind told him that we were having a private thing we have just enough food for our group, you freind is down the river and probably has beer and food for you, you can hang and finish off the beer and then you gotta go. he did go after confirming with us for the 5th time that we saw his buddy go by and he is probably at Radium. 
Now if it was dark we would of let him stay and wait until morning so he would not be going down in the dark but, I have been on trips where people show up from the camp next door drink the beer, eat the food and wind up starting shit with people.
So the question I have is: what would of you guys done with this dude and the drunk kids paddling down the river?


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## caseybailey (Mar 11, 2008)

I quit worrying about police(ing) others a long time ago. 
No pfd=death=less people on the planet...a win/win for all.


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## striker (Aug 22, 2007)

I ran into this group as well and they were about as wasted as people can be. I watched them finish off a handle of jack before geting into there truck. they also did not put enough air into there raft were in a perpetual taco as they went down the river.


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## gh (Oct 13, 2003)

Frustrating, yes. Can you do something, not really. It seems some people shouldn't reproduce. I was just one of the few that realized that before I had children instead of after.


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## caverdan (Aug 27, 2004)

Kids these days.........the little bastards are everywhere!!

Sounds like a typical Upper C Gore Race weekend to me. I'm into the natural selection thing myself and quit lecturing on life jacket use some time back. Some weekends up there are good....and some are bad and should be avoided.......unless your there for the race.


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## Ture (Apr 12, 2004)

I'm with the guys who don't care too much about the safety of reckless strangers on the river as long as they don't endanger me or any children they may have with them and as long as they die where I can't see it happen (I'll turn my head the other way if I have to). The part that would have bothered me is having a drunk stranger in my camp. I wouldn't even like him walking up to my camp, let alone coming into the kitchen and looking at my food.

I think you guys did a good job in getting rid of him politely. He was just a wasted fool.


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## JDHOG72 (Jul 18, 2007)

Punch him in the face. Ask questions later.


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## mr. compassionate (Jan 13, 2006)

Ture said:


> I'm with the guys who don't care too much about the safety of reckless strangers on the river as long as they don't endanger me or any children they may have with them and as long as they die where I can't see it happen (I'll turn my head the other way if I have to). The part that would have bothered me is having a drunk stranger in my camp. I wouldn't even like him walking up to my camp, let alone coming into the kitchen and looking at my food.
> 
> I think you guys did a good job in getting rid of him politely. He was just a wasted fool.


Dude, I believe that was my bro and crew you ran into. I like to take newbies on the river get them drunk and make them swim to learn a quick respect for the water. A little JD is kept at the takeout in order to warm up. Why wear a PFD if you know how to swim...it's all about keepin' it real. Had a great time at Pumphouse gettin' naked and doing Penis Puppetry-ever heard of the escargot or catchers mit?


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## GoodTimes (Mar 9, 2006)

mr. compassionate said:


> Had a great time at Pumphouse gettin' naked and doing Penis Puppetry-ever heard of the escargot or catchers mit?


Soooooooo....you guys all get naked and play with each others cock-n-balls.......and give them names????


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## mr. compassionate (Jan 13, 2006)

GoodTimes said:


> Soooooooo....you guys all get naked and play with each others cock-n-balls.......and give them names????


Look up penis puppetry it apparently is the national pastime in Austrailia. They tour the country and are looking to train locals for private parties...pulsating chicken heart anyone?


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## Riparian (Feb 7, 2009)

Sounds like the Taser X3 is the appropriate device to take on Upper C trips when there's a chance of running into Mr. C and his friends. It's immersible and shoots multiple darts for bonehead crowd control. And, if you're feeling generous, it has a "warning arc" that allows you to impress would-be-victims with scary electrical arcs. Sometimes that's enough. Sometimes the darts have to be deployed to defuse a dumbass situation. Just depends.

TASER X3


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## GoodTimes (Mar 9, 2006)

mr. compassionate said:


> Look up penis puppetry it apparently is the national pastime in Austrailia. They tour the country and are looking to train locals for private parties...pulsating chicken heart anyone?


No....I know what it is......and I've seen comedy shows displaying their "art".......you just eluded to an interesting/disturbing image of a bunch of drunk dudes in their PFD's around a fire pan playin' with their junk.....which they have cute names for.


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## caspermike (Mar 9, 2007)

minus the pfds


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## pinemnky13 (Jun 4, 2007)

I gotta say one other thing really annoyed me, NO AMTRAK TO MOON!
It's just not fair


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## Riparian (Feb 7, 2009)

And you can stop icky "puppet shows" from a safe distance with the X3...


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## mr. compassionate (Jan 13, 2006)

I believe mike's signature is the Baby Bird in a Bird Nest


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## mr. compassionate (Jan 13, 2006)

Back to the issue at hand, who's this PineMonkey who has the nerve to dis my homeys?


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## caspermike (Mar 9, 2007)

ahahah. more like a long necked terrodactyle sitting on two big ol round gold boulders

let me tell you what, when i was born, the doctor thought i had elphantitest


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## mr. compassionate (Jan 13, 2006)

Rip, thanks for the lead! I can purchase the Taser at any local Sports Authority according to their website. Maybe this is a safe alternative to my wife packing heat for the local river scum.


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## Riparian (Feb 7, 2009)

Elphantitest, or ELFantitis? Those elves are kinda little...


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## caspermike (Mar 9, 2007)

look who's talking yoda


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## JDHOG72 (Jul 18, 2007)

I like The Dudes solution way better then the "punch in the face solution" I'm getting one of those. If nothing else it will make for a fun party trick on westwater.


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## mr. compassionate (Jan 13, 2006)

JDHOG72 said:


> I like The Dudes solution way better then the "punch in the face solution" I'm getting one of those. If nothing else it will make for a fun party trick on westwater.


Maybe combine it with my Nitrous cracker-now that would be a buzz!


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## raymo (Aug 10, 2008)

pinemnky13 said:


> So we went on the upper c this weekend and brought along a group of freinds some of whom were not boaters so they could have some fun with us and see what it's like to poop in a groover and such when a couple of things happened that I'd like to get feedback from. The first thing is we saw a boat full of younger rafters not wearing pfds when one fell out of the boat in fron of our campsite we run down to the beach and see that one has thrown a rope to the guy in the water and got him back in the boat. what we didn't see was the guy who jumped into the water to retrive a paddle. we realized something was wrong and went back down and saw this kid waist deep in the middle of the river. so rope in hand we went down to pull him out, the kid was shivering cold wearing a cotton t-shirt no PFD no river shoes a pair of socks instead. We walked him down to his group and they were all shitfaced(They called me a sober guy when I had been at camp since 2 having beers and playing Bocci Ball So ikne they were trashed) We gave them a lecture on wearing your PFD, watch out for the Ranger at Radium and sent them off. I now see why the BWI law is what it is, and I make sure to keep it under control on the river now so I don't have to deal with a ranger or the sheriff when going home.
> Then about a half hour laetr this guy pulls up looking for his freinds, we told him they were not here, asked him what kind of boat he was running and what his freinds looked liked(after we gave him a beer) we recognized the boat and the guy we had meet him earlier by the hot springs while floating through and told him that they were probably at radium(which was where his freind was) so the dude goes and grabs another beer and walks over to the grill where we were cooking making comments about how good the food looked and all that. My girlfreind did not like the situation and asked him to show us his boat(His boat was cool though) when we saw his gear bag, and no cooler. (No cooler?) and he's having our beer and staring at our food. Thats when my girlfreind told him that we were having a private thing we have just enough food for our group, you freind is down the river and probably has beer and food for you, you can hang and finish off the beer and then you gotta go. he did go after confirming with us for the 5th time that we saw his buddy go by and he is probably at Radium.
> Now if it was dark we would of let him stay and wait until morning so he would not be going down in the dark but, I have been on trips where people show up from the camp next door drink the beer, eat the food and wind up starting shit with people.
> So the question I have is: what would of you guys done with this dude and the drunk kids paddling down the river?


 You were kind,polite, very helpful, and informative, but firm. Good job. Some friends I raft with would make him look down the barrel of a 45, he would be shi#!ting all the way home. Sounds like you were dealing with the smart on of the group.


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## caspermike (Mar 9, 2007)

RAYMO what kinda of brother would pull a gun on another brother? whats up with that. sounds like the average moneyless river rat. give him a break he has to deal with mr c.


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## NoCo (Jul 21, 2009)

a cattle proder could be fun...and theyre cheap...zzzzzappppp


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## raymo (Aug 10, 2008)

caspermike said:


> RAYMO what kinda of brother would pull a gun on another brother? whats up with that. sounds like the average moneyless river rat. give him a break he has to deal with mr c.


I incriminated my friends with out them being here. My fault. Pinemnky13 did a great job with that situation.


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## pinemnky13 (Jun 4, 2007)

Thank you! by the way we losta an oar yesterday rainbow with the name Botner on it in between Rancho and pumphouse late in the afternoon If you guys see it p.m. me thank you.
I did put it on lost and found also


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## BoilermakerU (Mar 13, 2009)

In the first situation, I think you did the right thing. Help the kid out, regardless of how or why he got where he did. Maybe he and his buddies will learn a lesson, maybe they won't. I'd feel better knowing that I at least tried. What if that kid became a statistic an hour or so down the river? How would you have felt? You did the right thing there.

In the second situation, I wouldn't have been as accommodating as you. I would have answered his question the first time and sent him on his way. Let him go bother somebody else, or get his butt back on his boat and on his way. I'm not very tolerant of drunks disrupting my gatherings.

In terms of what happened at the takeout, I might have called the DUI enforcement number (*DUI on cell phones?), but would have otherwise steared clear of them. There's no reason to get involved with somebody in that state, it usually ends up getting ugly. The reason I'd call the DUI enforcement number is that if a trooper or officer of some sort were to run across him on the road, they may get him OFF the road. That could wind up saving a life. I don't like to butt into things, but just because he's not impacting your life that moment doesn't mean he won't be the guy to hit you head on on your way back home and his way back to Rancho for another shot or beer.


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## adgeiser (May 26, 2009)

or your friends, or some ones mother, father, child,...whatever or whomever.... Stupidity that only endangers oneself is completely different then that which can harm others. So i would have call in the dui.


> I don't like to butt into things, but just because he's not impacting your life that moment doesn't mean he won't be the guy to hit you head on on your way back home and his way back to Rancho for another shot or beer.


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## dograft83 (Jun 16, 2008)

Not much you can do about the pfd like everyone says. But for the stranger in camp you could invest in a smith & Wesson 44 mag. It will make and drunk free loader pucker and run! Or now they have the 500 that you could just club people with.
Just my 2 cents


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## pinemnky13 (Jun 4, 2007)

adgeiser said:


> or your friends, or some ones mother, father, child,...whatever or whomever.... Stupidity that only endangers oneself is completely different then that which can harm others. So i would have call in the dui.


We couldn't of cause were a good walk off from a pay phone(no service up there at all)
I was more worried about the kids especially the one who was sttanding in the river he had that look of fear in his eyes and his buddy's did not even go up river to find him so we walked him down and told him and his buddies how stupid it was of them to be drunk and fucking around with out PFD's. 
with the other guy My girlfriend and I just was firm and let him know it was time to go. We didn't curse him out, belittle him or try to offend him in a way that would of made the situation worse. I guess it comes from years of working in bars and having to deal with much worse than that.
And using a firearm to intimidate somebody is just not my way. I just won't do it.

thanks for the positive feedback, I hope we see each other on the river


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## GeorgieW (Apr 27, 2008)

Darwinism at its best!


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## randomnature (Jun 10, 2007)

Oh boy, guns on the river. Make sure you read up on use of deadly force and threats thereof before you point a gun at someone. It's not as simple as it seems.


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## pinemnky13 (Jun 4, 2007)

let's not take it away from the original meaning of this post and bring it to a political pissing match, that is what the eddie is for and what this post is not about


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## dograft83 (Jun 16, 2008)

Who said anything about pointing a gun. Just a quick flash freaks most people out and they move on not thinking of what they might have wanted. But yes on the upper c it is over kill and was ment more as a joke. What Pine did was a great job and there were no hard feelings with any one.


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## dograft83 (Jun 16, 2008)

randomnature said:


> Oh boy, guns on the river. Make sure you read up on use of deadly force and threats thereof before you point a gun at someone. It's not as simple as it seems.


It is simple but hard to prove. You can use deadly force if you feel your person or property is in great danger from some one or something (bear, mountain lion) In most cases it is very hard to prove making what pine did the best out come for all. Oh and to use a gun and shoot someone and you have been drinking you will go to jail


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## caspermike (Mar 9, 2007)

wrong property doesn't fit under indangerment. therefor that would be murder. what the hell some drunk going to do to a group of you guys kick him in the ass and send him on the way keep the guns for fun, who wants to have some gun flashed on them for living the AMERICAN dream? come on you bunch of ninny lactaters


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## caverdan (Aug 27, 2004)

I remember a thread a while back when a guy waived a gun at some people that pulled into his camp for lunch on the upper C. The sheriff was notified and the guy was arrested at his camp that night.....had to leave all his shit.....if you pull a gun there better be a really good reason. I have another friend who's a blackbelt. He had a gun pulled on him once....he broke the guys finger and made him shoot himself all in the blink of an eye....then he ran away as fast as he could and never did hear what happened to the guy.....which he left to die........of coarse he was in a slum area at the time in some big city. Moral......don't be too close to someone if you do pull a gun ........or it might be used on you.....or end up in your butt.


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## pinemnky13 (Jun 4, 2007)

The only gun I bring on any river is my water gun.


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## Theophilus (Mar 11, 2008)

This is my rifle this is my gun, this is for killin this is for.....

Never EVER draw a weapon on somebody you aren't prepared to kill cuz if you draw down on folks who live by this fundamental rule you are a deadly threat and it's game on. Not a very bright move but on the bright side you'll probably never know what hit you.

My 2 cents

Carry on.


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## Beardance42 (May 12, 2008)

I generally avoid the stupid-drunk parties on the river. I'll try to pull around and in front of them. They're obnoxious and loud and selfish. 

I also figure sooner or later one of these idiots is going to fall into the river at a bad time and my personal ethic is to assist in rescue when a life is at stake and I'm within range to help, regardless of whether the subject in question brought about his own misfortune. 

I'm not sure getting someone shitfaced and tossing them overboard is the best way to instill respect for the river, but not my call. I would only ask that everyone respect everyone else's space and privacy - some of us do our damage-drinking in bars or at home, and save river days for chill and quiet and solitude (however much of that there is left...). 

I'm also against guns on the river. Very much so.


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## ridecats (Aug 8, 2009)

My river ethics tend to run more towards respecting privacy, particularly of one's camp. If you are in trouble, feel free to approach my camp. If you need to inquire about some spare part you need, or directions, or to ask if I've seen your party, feel free to approach my camp. If there is a trailhead at my camp and you want to hike the trail, by all means wave and introduce yourself as you go on by. But please don't just turn up looking to meet chicks and score a beer and/or a meal, ESPECIALLY if you are impaired. Now I do realize not everybody is an introverted hermit like me, but most folks on a river aren't looking for a crowd at that particular time.

IMO it is a good thing to tell the group (particularly young people) they are being dangerous. Maybe the kid who was cold will take it to heart. Maybe one person in the group, one you would never suspect, was already thinkng to herself that things were getting out of hand and, will silently take your message to heart.

Totally on board with calling the State Patrol and reporting a suspected DUI, if the facts bear it out. Be sure to describe the vehicle accurately and if possible give the license plate. You can remain anonymous if you want, just say you saw a person swilling Jack Daniels before getting behind the wheel.

P.S. Displaying a firearm is a very big deal. Do not get your legal advice from an Internet forum.


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## Big Da (Mar 8, 2006)

No Guns and No Fuzz. Respect others privacy. Mind your own business. Use your words if someone invading your personal space/area(as the thread starter did). If words don't work....then drop 'em.


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## NoCo (Jul 21, 2009)

does anyone have some gun storage tips for a jackson superstar???where do you keep it... mine always ends up bothering my feet...wish i didnt need it but there have been some roughians down at the playwave...damn boater punks...those float by shootings are getting way to common place too...do they make bulletproof pfds yet...maybe metal detectors at all put ins could help...i know...why cant we get some of the air marshals trained to patrol the river disguised as a drunk boater...that could help...anybody want to start a gang with me...where are the black panthers???


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## NoCo (Jul 21, 2009)

where is shaft


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## Riparian (Feb 7, 2009)

I understand that the Astral Green will be available in Kevlar next year in response to demand on the Upper C and Ark. This niche marketing would be totally unnecessary if people just learned some manners... or carried the revolutionary Taser X3 with multishot capability.



NoCo said:


> does anyone have some gun storage tips for a jackson superstar???where do you keep it... mine always ends up bothering my feet...wish i didnt need it but there have been some roughians down at the playwave...damn boater punks...those float by shootings are getting way to common place too...do they make bulletproof pfds yet...maybe metal detectors at all put ins could help...i know...why cant we get some of the air marshals trained to patrol the river disguised as a drunk boater...that could help...anybody want to start a gang with me...where are the black panthers???


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## caverdan (Aug 27, 2004)

I hate to say it Rip......but Tazers and water don't mix.......especially when shooting from the confines of a kayak on the water,

NoCo.....either try a holster mounted under your spray skirt...so if you swim it's still handy........or try the new waterproof ones mounted on your deck. 

If you mount the holster correctly......the lazer site and trigger will be within reach and shootable without pulling it out of it's holster.......might require a boof move or two for proper aim and all.....

Not sure what your shooting......but 40 cal. ammo is easy to get right now.......tracers add that visual effect and the new fragmant loads take out rafts rather nicely.....hope this helps.


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## Riparian (Feb 7, 2009)

> I hate to say it Rip......but Tazers and water don't mix.......especially when shooting from the confines of a kayak on the water.


Actually, the incredibly advanced X3 is "environmentally hardened" to withstand water... and can even handle short-term submersion. With its improved "range adjusted dual laser system" and its calibrated "neuro muscular incapacitation" pulse, it may be the perfect _peacemaker_ on today's increasingly violent rivers.

Or, as I mentioned earlier, people could learn some manners...


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## NolsGuy (Jul 20, 2009)

I think you handled it well...and this has been a damn fine thread. 

On a side note...how common is it for a kayaker to approach you at a take out, ask for a beer and say "I'll get you back at the put in, I know I saw your up there at fisherman's bridge"...

LOL...happened to me twice this year at heckla...cracked me up. And no, I never did get the pay back beer at the put in.


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## randomnature (Jun 10, 2007)

http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/usr/wbardwel/public/nfalist/triplemini2.jpg

This can be mounted to any Kayak according to the manufacturer, but users are advised that it may make the vessel unstable.


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## pinemnky13 (Jun 4, 2007)

I just gotta say thank you to the everyone who supportted our decision making that day and a big thank you to all the hecklers that made us laugh.
Mr.Compassionate especially, look me up for a drink when your here in the wood


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## mr. compassionate (Jan 13, 2006)

pinemnky13 said:


> I just gotta say thank you to the everyone who supportted our decision making that day and a big thank you to all the hecklers that made us laugh.
> Mr.Compassionate especially, look me up for a drink when your here in the wood


All in good fun. BTW, you're the first person on this site who's offered to meet me for anything other than kicking me in the nads. Thanks for making me feel wanted...group hug anyone?


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## caspermike (Mar 9, 2007)

as long as that thick booty gf of yours is there.


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## ridecats (Aug 8, 2009)

Be cautious about Tasering anyone in your campsite, particularly near the kitchen area. It has been known to cause the subject to lose sphincter control...


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## mr. compassionate (Jan 13, 2006)

caspermike said:


> as long as that thick booty gf of yours is there.


 
Like my beer...I like my ladies thick and dark.


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## pinemnky13 (Jun 4, 2007)

mr. compassionate said:


> All in good fun. BTW, you're the first person on this site who's offered to meet me for anything other than kicking me in the nads. Thanks for making me feel wanted...group hug anyone?


Aww, know i feel like a human again, that whole yakgirl thing last year made me forget my human side. seiously look me up when your out here we can have fun with the populace


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## mustloverafting (Jun 29, 2008)

I am okay with people not wearing PFD's and dying on the river so long as they are organ donors! Natual selection....


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