# Kayak Feedback/ Axiom & Ripper



## bobbuilds (May 12, 2007)

What is your height and weight?

Also what do you paddle now?

None of that really matters, I’m just curious who I’m speaking towards.

I’m 6’ 3” 280. I’ve paddled an antix for a full season class 3/4. I’ve paddled an axiom 9’ for a short while, and I have a ripper now.

The ripper is sporty, as Bren Orton would say..

Read that as scary as heck for anyone not used to narrow boats. It is by far the most fun and challenging boat I have paddled. I’m way too big for it. It will be a scary fun season for me here on the Arkansas River.

My last season was in the antix. Pine creek up to 1000cfs, no problems. Numbers up to about 1700, really fun. I paddled the axiom in similar ranges and enjoy it also.

I found the antix and axiom to be stable, planing hull boats. Both good for someone my size. They responded like river runners would. Fun, turns,stable and enjoyable.

The ripper, whoa.... I was expecting to have a steep learning curve again. It is making me a better paddler. It is squirrelly big time when it looses speed. Up until the ripper all my boats are stable and forgiving. Large karma, large antix. I’m fine in class 4, not a worry. The axiom is similar to the antix in a few ways, not all. The axiom is a tick longer, more bow length but stable, like the antix.

The ripper is a whole new animal for me. It is stable at speed, once the speed is gone it is a new game. I can squirt the ripper easy. I moved the seat all the way back, it is gnarly fun.

I was looking to get my ass kicked, the ripper is doing just that. It will be a full season of paddling it this year just to get it dialed. I am looking forward to it.

My background is all Jackson boats to this point. I love them, they are stable and fun, especially the antix. The axiom is kind of by itself for me. It is a fun boat,but not quite like the ripper.

If you are small and thin, disregard what I have to say. If you are big and top heavy, get ready for a wild ride in the ripper. I’ll be playing kayak polo in my ripper all winter, just to be ready co e spring time.

In a general opinion regardless of size or weight, get a ripper. It is sick!


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## MtnGuyXC (Jul 20, 2006)

*Kayak Feedback Axiom/Ripper*

Thanxs Bob for your feedback.

I am 6'3" & 215 lbs for whatever that's worth since they make three sizes though you are big guy & I'm sure that plays a fair role in how Any boat performs for you. I paddle up to easy class 5 & right now have had a Jackson SuperFun, SuperStar & Fluid Solo for a number of years now.

From what u have described sounds like the Axiom is a better candidate for me. I luv my Jacksons but I'm now in my early 60's & have broken my left ankle twice over the years rock climbing & its now getting harder for me to get in/out of them more than before making them just not as comfortable. I have to totally get out of the boat to get any relief.... Where as with my creeker at any time I can just pop my leg to the side without getting out of the boat to relax my ankle/leg for a few moments. The Axiom & Ripper I can do the same. That's really my main reason for wanting a different boat. Still want to be able to play the river....but at the same time not looking to be upside down all the time when river running....

Your weight I believe plays probably into that squirrely/playfullness feeling you get with the Ripper over the Axiom. Is that fair to say? Regardless; with my weight being a considerable difference I am preferring a more stable boat over unpredictable/playful....Gettin Older...ha. What can I say?

So any other Buzz folks feel free to chime in regarding those boats or even any other suggestions. I'm opened minded about it & have no loyalty to any one manufacturer at this point. 

CKS did mention the Jackson Antix though were kinda steering me away from it. Also mentioned was the Liquid Logic Mulet but I know nothing about it yet. 

Thanxs all,


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## bobbuilds (May 12, 2007)

One other thought seeing as how you’ve broken your ankle twice.

Jackson creekers and river runners have a uni shock bulkhead. They can be pushed forward as you release the rope from the cleat.

I love Jackson for this reason. My legs tend to go to sleep when I engage against the bulkhead. Being able to pop it free in eddys and on the in between helps me a lot.

The antix is also the most stable of the ripper, axiom, mullet, antix. Yet it still squirts big time when you want to throw down.

I’ve also cut a heel notch in the pillar of my boats for added foot room. Size 14 shoe.

The ripper and axiom have no foam pillar down by the feet, giving more foot room on a narrower boat.

I love Jackson, and would have bought another antix had my wife been into it. I got a screaming deal on a large ripper, much less than I could have gotten an antix for. Plus, the ripper is squirrelly fun for me, it’s going to help my creek boating big time.

Don’t let CKS talk you out of an antix, sit in one and see what you think, although much more comfortable than a super star with having the bulkhead.

CKS warehouse in salida talk to Noah, he paddles an axiom and loves it, I think he had time in the ripper and antix also.

CKS main st, talk with Fred or Lee, Brad if he is around. I think brad likes Jackson antix, Fred likes whatever he can paddle, he rocks. And Lee is a ripper guy if I had to guess.

If your in the valley we can meet up, try the ripper in the pool. If I get to NM again soon I’ll try and pick up the old antix and bring it here.

Stature plays a big role in what people like. I guess your waist line puts you in an axiom. Not a wide as a Jackson, not too narrow like a ripper.

Most Pyranha guys are thin, some are thin and short.

Jackson has the best comfort and handles the wider guys best.

Dagger is right in the middle.

Famous Leif is like 6’9 and 220ish? Paddles a 9’ axiom and crushes it, though he is a baller paddler.

Noah is under 6’ and 200ish? I think he’s in an 8.5 or 8 maybe but it’s more of a river runner for him. I’ve never seen him stall it, but I could be wrong.

At 60 you might be into the river running aspect over its vertical features and again, I could be wrong. If you want to stall it get or feel sporty the 8.5 or move the seat back in the 9.0,it might take some work or a strong eddy line.

Whenever my ankles start hurting I just hold a stern stall between Rapids to get the blood out of my foot and back to my brain.

Join us in salida for kayak polo if you are in the valley. Antix, axiom, rpm, rippers should be a good boat for this.


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## wyosam (May 31, 2006)

I bought an Axiom 8.5 a few years ago for a grand trip. I suspected I would probably end up selling it. It is pretty much the only boat I paddle any more unless I'm self supporting. I'm 6" and 200ish, and I think its still plenty for 3" more and a bunch more weight. One week a year, I paddle it with the seat forward a ways and with some gear shoved in the back for a volunteer gig. I sometimes wish it was a bit dryer, but other than that, I wouldn't change a thing.


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## DanOrion (Jun 8, 2004)

Bob, your thoughts on the Ripper are nail on the head so far as I'm concerned. I was (still am) looking for something to replace my RPM, which I absolutely love for it's fast, playful style - the only reason to replace it is that it gets spooky soft at the slightest broach or pin. (With that said, I can't imagine a better boat than the RPM for very high Ark Numbers - fast to get where you want to be, melty to slide through holes you didn't miss, squirty to pick up those style points, fast to surf every wave and easy as pie to roll for when you flubb.)

Anyway, at 180# dry and 5'10, the Med Ripper was a hoot, but super squirrelly when you weren't paying attention. I hopped in a LL Party Braap for a bit - cool boat and more stable than the Ripper, but sort of stable to a fault. I like the narrow, low-deck leg-straight feel of the Ripper and RPM. 

Hope that narative helps...maybe MtnGuyXC should revisit the RPM Max of yesteryear? They're out there...


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## MtnGuyXC (Jul 20, 2006)

DanOrion

Well back in the day I paddled the RPM MAX. Cant say that I ever really cared for it. It felt like my Ole Hyperform from back in the late 70's/early 80's. I have long legs & never cared for the small cockpit & my legs stretched out straight, Prefer more of a bend in my knees, space for my big feet & room to flex them.

The reason for getting a new boat is comfort & an old RPM can't compare to present day boats & outfitting.

Thanxs for the suggestion anyways.


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## bobbuilds (May 12, 2007)

Here is a review of the axiom posted by Leif 

Dagger Axiom Review

I’d think an axiom 9.0 or antix L would be a great fit, slightly different character. Both really fun!


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## KSC (Oct 22, 2003)

I bought a Ripper this past fall because I had half slice envy. I've only had a few runs on it. A couple of lower water Gore runs and a run down Shoshone. I have the medium and am about 155# without gear. I've really enjoyed it. It's a ninja boat capable of very quick moves and acceleration. I was able to, barely, squirt it on the right eddyline with the right move, but it's not easy for me and I still need a lot more practice to consistently squirt it.

It's a fun boat so far and I imagine will replace half the days I might otherwise be a creekboat. I didn't really find it particularly squirrely or unstable, but that impression may change when I get on a run with more water.


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## okieboater (Oct 19, 2004)

I paddled RPM Max for many years and kept it till I had to give up hard shells. When the Remix series came out, I purchased one and it became my day to day kayak of choice.

Remix series has several sizes, look for the one that fits you. Outfitting in the Remix was just outstanding, a lot more room in the back for river running and self support and while the RPM Max was in my humble opinion the better surf machine, for all around use and comfort the Remix has the edge.

The Remix should be pretty cheap on the used boat market these days.


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## bobbuilds (May 12, 2007)

KSC said:


> I bought a Ripper this past fall because I had half slice envy. I've only had a few runs on it. A couple of lower water Gore runs and a run down Shoshone. I have the medium and am about 155# without gear. I've really enjoyed it. It's a ninja boat capable of very quick moves and acceleration. I was able to, barely, squirt it on the right eddyline with the right move, but it's not easy for me and I still need a lot more practice to consistently squirt it.
> 
> It's a fun boat so far and I imagine will replace half the days I might otherwise be a creekboat. I didn't really find it particularly squirrely or unstable, but that impression may change when I get on a run with more water.


Hey KSC, have you looked into adjusting the seat to the back? Just asking here but the handful of pros I’ve talked to and overheard talking about the ripper seem to think it’s the spot to be for the ripper.

Bren orton mentions it in this video also.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=f8qy6Q4X86o

Dave fusilli moved his seat back in the medium, as did Bren. They say it helps the way the boat paddles. They both have different statures but seem to think it’s the spot for the ripper. I guess with the length of the boat just getting into the forward aggressive body position is enough to free up the stern. It makes the bow longer, looks faster, etc...

Just a thought. 

Saw a ton of rippers in the PNW this thanksgiving, I didn’t talk with half the folks but they love the boat. I hope to see you in the ripper in gore this fall, or here on the Ark. 

I don’t boat the ripper on hard stuff, it’s way too squirrelly for me, your a much better paddler, with better conditioning. I’d be stoked to hear your long term review latter this season!!


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## KSC (Oct 22, 2003)

Nope, I haven't played with the seat position at all, but I appreciate the suggestion. I bought a demo and frankly haven't even checked to see what the current position is. I'll play around with it once there's water again. In the meantime let's keep those storms coming.


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## themechanicnotthetool (May 13, 2010)

Ripper large is a damned hoot. Not a difficult or sporty boat unless you want it to be, adjusting the seat back a titch so you’re tail heavy. 
I set mine up at dead flat trim and the boat is just a gas vertical or horizontal and speedy AF. Also a big fan of the braap but LL dropped the ball when they chose to not make a large. The mullet performs nothing like it and is unstable. 
Ripper is also a hoot in kayak polo. Beat your buddies to the ball all day long. Fast fast fast.
Prijon Fly is the boater-on-a-budget slicey boat for medium size folks. Boat design runs in circles. Neat ideas then and now.


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## bobbuilds (May 12, 2007)

themechanicnotthetool said:


> Ripper large is a damned hoot. Not a difficult or sporty boat unless you want it to be, adjusting the seat back a titch so you’re tail heavy.
> I set mine up at dead flat trim and the boat is just a gas vertical or horizontal and speedy AF. Also a big fan of the braap but LL dropped the ball when they chose to not make a large. The mullet performs nothing like it and is unstable.
> Ripper is also a hoot in kayak polo. Beat your buddies to the ball all day long. Fast fast fast.
> Prijon Fly is the boater-on-a-budget slicey boat for medium size folks. Boat design runs in circles. Neat ideas then and now.


I agree with what was said above. The seat center or forward and the boat handles more like a river runner.

Do you recall where your seat is set? Forward,center,or back?

I notice they only made for 3 positions.

I’m also curious to your height and weight seeing as how you paddle a large ripper. It’s impressive that you can stall the boat with the seat forward. That’s a lot of stern, or at least a long stern.

These style of boats are really fun! Stoked to hear any more info as the season comes on.


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