# Grand Canyon at 25,000 vs 14,000 cfs



## speadlight (Jul 26, 2005)

I've got a trip coming up and got the surprising news yesterday that the powers that be are drawing down the lake until the end of the year - which equals 25,000 cfs expect in the ditch for our launch. How does in compair to the median winter level of 10 -14,000 cfs.
Thanks in advance.


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## Schenker (Mar 21, 2010)

My experience is some rapids are easier and most are bigger. Most of the roaring twenties are washed out or easier. Then there are unnamed rapids that seem to only form at those higher flows. The biggest difference I found was, obviously, the waves/holes are a lot bigger and the current a lot faster. 25000cfs is an awesome level to run the ditch at. The Gems are a blast and Lava is Big. 

Have fun and good lines


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## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

Where are you getting your flow information? Just curious as we need to find out the same for a spring trip, although it is probably too early.


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## funrivers (May 14, 2008)

Great level! We took our 14' sb at that level and had a blast. It's fast--no slow water at that level. Most of it was real straight forward--go big or sneak. We ran Lava on the left, Crystal on the right, Horn over where the left horn would be. Have fun!


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## tony (Apr 19, 2004)

great thread keep em comin. Leaving in two weeks!


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## UserName (Sep 7, 2007)

All in all bigger and more forgiving too if that makes sense. Best thing for a trip at that level that time of year is you wont have to push so hard to put on miles.


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## peterich (Mar 15, 2005)

I would say all the rapids are easier if you are in a raft. The steepness of the waves/holes decreases with the added volume. There are definitely some surprises on the lower rated rapids, but if you are keeping it straight no worries.


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## kikii875 (Oct 25, 2010)

Good advice so far. One thing that we had to work on this year's trip was communication when pulling in to some of the eddies. Some are bigger with the higher water and some are smalelr and harder to get into at that level. We missed several camps because one of the boats didn't make it in. Does make for great fodder for jokes for the rest of the trip though. I would reiterate "go left at lava".


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## synergyboater (Jan 5, 2008)

The only real suprise should be specter, straight forward but really big. Marc


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## BCJ (Mar 3, 2008)

You'll love it. I'm big fan of big flows and you'll have it.


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## asleep.at.the.oars (May 6, 2006)

lhowemt said:


> Where are you getting your flow information? Just curious as we need to find out the same for a spring trip, although it is probably too early.


Bureau of Reclamation - Upper Colorado Region Water Operations: Current Status: Lake Powell
They post monthly updates of upper basin hydrology and the planned operation at Glen Canyon.
Grand Canyon Private Boaters Association has some good information as well, although also a lot of uninformed discussion on the channel morphology from the flow regimen.


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## alanbol (Jun 3, 2005)

I didn't catch whether you're in a raft or kayak, but never mind...
We ran at these flows last June. 
Like everyone says, bigger, but more forgiving, especially in a raft.
In a kayak, there are some absolutely ripping eddy lines, as in mystery moves in a big boat. 
Some rapids in the roaring 20's got really punchy. Specter was big. Only place we had a rafter wash out of their boat. Bedrock was easy - tons of room to get right. 
Some camps were really small because the water was so high - not a lot of beach showing, but you don't have to worry about tides (Yea!).
We did the night float down to Pearce. I recommend going to Pearce, just not at night. There's strong current with tall caving silt banks all the way down. It's hard to find a place to tie off in the night that's safe from having a 10 foot sand bank land in your boat, and you sure as hell don't want to miss the take out.


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## BCJ (Mar 3, 2008)

There are some good Youtube videos of the left run at Lava at those flows. Pretty safe over there. Most other stuff will be big-friendly waves, or skirtable. Damn, wish I were going!


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## speadlight (Jul 26, 2005)

Thanks for all the replies! You guys are getting me pumped for the ditch. 
Alanbol- We are doing a 6 day longboat self self support trip which will put us back in the real world on Christmas eve! All my wife said was "Have at it, as long as your back for your daughters first Christmas" 
So I keep hearing about these eddy lines that could swallow my Tornado... Any particular spots I should watch out for?


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## Cutch (Nov 4, 2003)

Launching in 2 days for the 13 day long boat self-support! We'll let you know how 22k is. Probably a bunch of easy class 7 in a kayak...


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## Canada (Oct 24, 2006)

*you guys are so lucky!!*

25 K in the winter. What an epic year!


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## rivermanryan (Oct 30, 2003)

I'm not sure where you all are getting your info about 25K cfs. I was at an operations meeting last week, and the plan then was to have a steady release of 20,700 cfs. I just called the operator (I work with him, as I operate another CRSP unit - Navajo) and that is still the plan through Christmas. That is the max they can currently push through the generators.

Can't wait, launching next week!


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## speadlight (Jul 26, 2005)

Thanks rivermanryan. I dont know exactly where the TL is getting his info, but I'm guessing its not directly from the operator


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## eukwe (Feb 1, 2008)

We put in August 28 this year and had 25K for 4 days and then it dropped to 15.7 for the remainder of our trip. Take out at Pierce Ferry. I would agree with all the above posts. We ran the Grand 4 years ago at 10-13K and I think it was more difficult at that level. Have a ball!


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## alanbol (Jun 3, 2005)

*eddylines*

I recall a powerful eddyline somewhere in the mid 20s, 24 or 25 or so. Watch for places with a strong eddy return flow into a narrow line of haystacks.
Also, the lower part of bedrock was amazingly turbulent with incredible up and downwelling along seams. Fun stuff!


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## GC Guide (Apr 10, 2009)

As far as Sphincter, I mean Specter, I would not take the first wave full on. Be left of the first wave then get back into the big wave train. The first wave at that level (if you take them all) will slow you, the second will stop you and the third will flip you. Have a great trip!


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## kikii875 (Oct 25, 2010)

GC Guide said:


> As far as Sphincter, I mean Specter, I would not take the first wave full on. Be left of the first wave then get back into the big wave train. The first wave at that level (if you take them all) will slow you, the second will stop you and the third will flip you. Have a great trip!


 You got it right the first time. At 25k or above it is not Specter Chasm, it is Sphincter Spasm.


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## BrianK (Feb 3, 2005)

I may have had a few too many PBR and hit the meat of Spector this May at 26k - my wife is still mad at me for it. But you don't go down the Grand Canyon to sneak rapids.

We found that it was easy to cheat nearly everything at 26k or you can go big - your choice.


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## Schenker (Mar 21, 2010)

*Go Big*



GC Guide said:


> As far as Sphincter, I mean Specter, I would not take the first wave full on. Be left of the first wave then get back into the big wave train. The first wave at that level (if you take them all) will slow you, the second will stop you and the third will flip you. Have a great trip!


Agreed. I ran the meat and took every wave and it happened like you said only I didn't flip in the third wave, just one epic highside and one wide eyed wife.


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## paulk (Apr 24, 2006)

brian you are lucky she still wanted to be your wife after that one. The eddies are big and if there is wind it is hard to escape some of them. although I may have also had too many pbr's. Hermit may be one of the most fun rapids ever t that level


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