# Getting a kayak/gear down to phantom ranch



## Big Tuna (Apr 13, 2004)

I got invited on a GC trip in March and can only make the second part of the trip. I have never hiked in to phantom ranch and was curious about a few things:
1. Has anyone ever hiked in their gear and yak in to Phantom?
2. What is the hike like if I have all that gear? Is it realistic? How long would it take?
3. Are there companies that will get my gear and kayak down there? Raft? Mule? If so which ones and how much do they charge?
4. Any suggestions beside the obvious (which I can't do) of running the whole ditch?

Any knowledge on this would definitely help me out.


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## UserName (Sep 7, 2007)

Send your gear on down ahead with the rest of the trip. They are planning on carrying your gear anyway, only extra burden is strapping a kayak on a raft (& paddle). Shouldn't be too difficult.

Next idea is to bring your gear and a _REALLY LONG ROPE_ to the Rim


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## Caspian (Oct 14, 2003)

Send it with them. Bring good shoes and lace the instep well. It's not a bad hike at all, but don't let poor foot care there wreck your time once you get to the river.


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## Big Tuna (Apr 13, 2004)

Problem is they are pretty loaded down. Not sure if anyone will want to take the kayak. I'm pretty sure they would take my gear and paddle, but I think I need to get my yak down to the river on my own. Anyone out there hiked your boat in? Or pay someone to get it done?


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## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

There were some discussions on the GCPBA yahoo group a while back about someone hiking their yak out. I think you can send some stuff down on mules, but not sure about a yak. Check out that group, you might get some good ideas. there's also the RRFW yahoo group too.

Another thought - maybe a commercial trip would take your boat and leave it at Phantom on the given day, or day before? Not sure how they could secure it, if they could lock it up to the water station, or a tree at the boat beach.

It's a big hike, I've done it backpacking. Something like 10 miles and 4000 vertical feet. Get as much down there NOT on your body as possible.


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## HelenDamnation (May 23, 2008)

I hiked in with a squirt boat about 10 years ago from the south rim. It took all day, and was a bit sketchy having the kayak sticking up above your head on the cliff sections. But all in all not too bad. Nobody in the group wanted to deal with hauling my gear on the boats. Prolly about 6 hours of hiking. Have fun, it was well worth the hike in with the boat.


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## DurangoSteve (Jun 2, 2006)

lhowemt said:


> There were some discussions on the GCPBA yahoo group a while back about someone hiking their yak out. I think you can send some stuff down on mules, but not sure about a yak. Check out that group, you might get some good ideas. there's also the RRFW yahoo group too.
> 
> Another thought - maybe a commercial trip would take your boat and leave it at Phantom on the given day, or day before? Not sure how they could secure it, if they could lock it up to the water station, or a tree at the boat beach.
> 
> It's a big hike, I've done it backpacking. Something like 10 miles and 4000 vertical feet. Get as much down there NOT on your body as possible.


It is a pretty demanding hike. Don't think I'd want to do it with a kayak strapped on my back. I rather doubt you could get the mule folks to strap on a yak... but the idea of paying a commercial trip to drop it off strikes me as the most viable route.


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## UserName (Sep 7, 2007)

I am a mule, and I wouldn't want to do it. I can be pretty stubborn about something like this too. Sure footed or not, that is a lot of awkward bulk sloppin around everywhich way on my back. Oh, and I am afraid of heights to begin with... better tie a few bed sheets together


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## DurangoSteve (Jun 2, 2006)

UserName said:


> I am a mule, and I wouldn't want to do it. I can be pretty stubborn about something like this too. Sure footed or not, that is a lot of awkward bulk sloppin around everywhich way on my back. Oh, and I am afraid of heights to begin with... better tie a few bed sheets together


A mule that types. Very cool! Now, if you would stop crapping all over the Bright Angel Trail, you might be qualified to be the Vice President of the United States! _On second thought, being full of mule crap is a qualification for being the VP..._


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## bth (Oct 31, 2005)

i did the hike last year and maet the rest of my crew at phantom. i carried a very small backpack and a peli case with camera gear in it, and absolutely wouldnt have wanted to carry more. 

something to seriously consider...if the rest of your crew isnt willing to strap a kayak to their raft rather than having you lug in down 4000 vertical feet from the canyon rim, is this REALLY a group you want to go spend however many days in the canyon with??


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## HelenDamnation (May 23, 2008)

i did the hike last year and maet the rest of my crew at phantom. i carried a very small backpack and a peli case with camera gear in it, and absolutely wouldnt have wanted to carry more. 

something to seriously consider...if the rest of your crew isnt willing to strap a kayak to their raft rather than having you lug in down 4000 vertical feet from the canyon rim, is this REALLY a group you want to go spend however many days in the canyon with??
 
Yeah, maybe it would be better to wait another 10-15 years to get invited on a trip. The hike isn't that bad, don't let everyone talk you out of it. I did the hike because I didn't feel comfortable asking someone to look after all my paddling gear for a week because it is a lot of trouble for somebody else. If you're in decent shape and if you pack light will not have a big problem.


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## Ron (Apr 21, 2004)

Heck of a still start!!!!


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## UserName (Sep 7, 2007)

DurangoSteve said:


> A mule that types. Very cool! _..._


Naaaa...aaaaawww, Can't type. My computer has Voice Recognition, and it translates Mule.



wat'lthey think of next...


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## boatingbuss (May 22, 2008)

I hike the canyon all the time and I would never want to carry a kayak. If your friends won't take your boat, maybe at least the rest of your gear? I think it can be done, but it would suck. But that's just like my opinion, man......


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## Chip (Apr 7, 2007)

*2 thoughts*

1. Tell 'em to stow beer and other consumables for the first half of the trip inside your yak, and provide a good cockpit cover. Really not much worry to rig it crosswise at the front or back. 

2. If you're actually goofy enough to try to get a yak down to Phantom from the Rim, get one of those trolley set-ups with all-terrain wheels and devise a waistbelt harness (i.e. a pack waistbelt that connects to the trolley thing). I built similar rigs for skiing with heavily-loaded pulk sleds— not rocket science. But it might be a test to get it around the switchbacks. Or, you could probably get the boat and gear packed down on a mule (for $$$). 

3. Or find a different trip.


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## yetigonecrazy (May 23, 2005)

you could also just screw the yak-pack and do the classic willie kern, "im gonna fucking carrying it johnnie, im gonna shoulder it, im gonna drag it, and occasionally im gonna throw it down and do one of these numbers and stretch my arms"


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## FLOWTORCH (Mar 5, 2004)

Find some other assholes to go with. Asshole.


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## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

There's always the IK option, that would be easier for your friends to pack down to Phantom to you. It could be deflated and tucked away in the bottom of the boat for those 8 days or whatever. A hardshell yak on a big boat that has to be loaded and unloaded every day would be a drag, unless you do something REALLY special for them! Boatmen/women can often be bought!


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## Mut (Dec 2, 2004)

I can't believe that everyone on here thinks that hiking a kayak DOWN HILL is such a pain. What a bunch of pussies. You must all be rafters.

Did I mention, it is down hill? 

Just put the thing on your shoulder and start walking. By the time you are over it, you'll be too far down to want to turn back. By the time you are really over it, you'll be close enough to muster a second (or fifth) wind. 

Baiscally, suck it up.

-Mut


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## Ron (Apr 21, 2004)

In the old days we hiked Sport yaks in at whitmore every fall. Until they decided to make that part of the park. We had to make 3 trips, one with the boat, one with the food, and one with the dutch ovens. We couldn't walk down hill the rest of the trip, but the river was sure great! Ron.


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## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

Right, because oaring a ton and a half boat (including YOUR GEAR) is so easy and restful, especially compared to a 75 lb yak! It sounds like this yakker has never hiked anything other than a portage!



Mut said:


> I can't believe that everyone on here thinks that hiking a kayak DOWN HILL is such a pain. What a bunch of pussies. You must all be rafters.
> 
> -Mut


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## TakemetotheRiver (Oct 4, 2007)

One hell of a seal launch...or

I think standard procedure is to carry in fresh food in exchange for them hauling your gear and understand that since they are a bunch of no-good rafters, the beer you sent in with them might be gone by the time they pick you up.


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## Snowhere (Feb 21, 2008)

*Toughen up, wimps!*

I have to beat my chest here. I backpacked it once with two girlfriends, one I was dating and one that was a friend. Both girls were destroyed by the hike in and the heat. So for the hike out I was stuck carrying all 3 packs contents! I had so much shit strapped to my old external frame pack, I was mistaken for a mule many a time! 2 tents, 3 bags, 3 gallons of water and clothing for 3! My pack weighed over 100 lbs and I was doing the hike back up! I was still faster then one of the girls and was not even destroyed by the hike. 

It did not hurt that I was 22 at the time. But if you do not take a whale of a boat, and put your other gear on the rafts, I am sure you can do it. If you want, go a day early, and you can either do it in two days by staying at Indian Gardens. Or go all the way to Phantom, and then take a day to recover. Just bring some plastic sheeting for a tent if you want to go light!


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## Randaddy (Jun 8, 2007)

I love this shit. "Back in the old days..." "I carried three people's gear..." "I used to run a 25 foot bucket boat with wooden oars I carved myself..." 

Keep the stories coming old timers. 

Personally I think you should base jump your kayak down there from the glass bridge!


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## richp (Feb 27, 2005)

Hi,

I think if it were me, I'd work a little harder on the TL about having your gear go down from the Ferry. 

Carrying your boat in could be done -- I'm way past telling folks they can't do things, even though I couldn't. But for the average person it likely would not be much fun. 

And by all means, if you do it, take care of your feet. Nine miles of constant downhill will hammer your toes into bloody stumps if you're not careful. I've seen it on commercial GC passengers who hiked in to Phantom, and it ain't pretty....

Also, if you decide to do this in two days, be aware that you can't just stop in at any of the campgrounds without a permit. 

FWIW.

Rich Phillips


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## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

And TMTTR is spot on. "Fresh" food on day 8 wouldn't be a lot, assuming they have good cooler plans/management. Some things that they may appreciate would be tomatoes, avocados, (basically any produce that will rot quickly) candy, liquor, and if you can come up with a dry ice system for that long hike- ICE CREAM! 

If you hike it down, it would probably be easier (but still not easy) to get a bed in one of the bunkhouses at Phantom Ranch than a camping permit. Hike down the day before, giving yourself plenty of time, and spend the night there. It might be easier to get a cancellation closer to the date than a reservation now.

But, BACK IN THE DAY, the park saved a couple of permits for the campground at phantom for walk ins. I once did that, got up at o'dark thirty and got to the ranger station at like 6 AM, second in line. got a permit for the next night. I don't know if they still do that, but you could check into it.


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## NateK (Oct 17, 2006)

If you are used to carrying a kayak it wont be a problem. It is all downhill on a well maintained trail. I work in the canyon and have seen a few people do it and none have looked much worse for the wear. Also several expeditions on the LCR have hiked boats out the Tanner Trail (9 miles uphill) without having too much trouble. Suck it up and get 'er done. Good luck.

P.S. At least it won't be hot in march.


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## UserName (Sep 7, 2007)

Another thought, find someone who wants to boat the first 80 miles and hike out at phantom... Bet you could find someone here on the buzz, particularly if you are paying the fees....


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## Snowhere (Feb 21, 2008)

Randaddy said:


> I love this shit. "Back in the old days..." "I carried three people's gear..." "I used to run a 25 foot bucket boat with wooden oars I carved myself..."
> 
> Keep the stories coming old timers.
> 
> Personally I think you should base jump your kayak down there from the glass bridge!


That would be a sight!


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## Big Tuna (Apr 13, 2004)

Thanks for all the advice! Lots of options from the hike to the leap of faith, but I'm going to try and convince my group to take it downriver with them. If not I might try and hire a sherpa.....anyone interested in hiking my boat in? Seriously, I will hire anyone with previous sherpa(ing) experience. Definitely don't want to trash my own feet on the way in. 

I have gotten alot of responses but has anyone actually hiked in their boat themselves. Surely, there has to be someone?? or have all of you just seen or heard of it being done?? Love to hear from someone that has actually done it before, not just people that carry 3 fat ladies backpacks up a hill.

Good idea on the supplies and I'm sure this crew will need to restock some other fresh produce....can def handle that!


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## richp (Feb 27, 2005)

Hi,

The fact no-one has yet replied that they've done it themseles. may be the most important piece of data you're going to get (smile).

FWIW.

Rich Phillips


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## caverdan (Aug 27, 2004)

How about strapping it to a mountain board.......(you know.....one of those skate boards with the all terrain tires.)...........and tug tow and/or ride it down?


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## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

OK, since Rich is no longer saying it, I will. You might get some good advice from folks on the yahoo groups of GCPBA and RRFW, lots of folks that have been down, more rafters/catters than anything though. but lots of people with lots of trips.


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## richp (Feb 27, 2005)

*Rich's Poor Excuse*

Hi Laura,

That's what happens when you see a post on the fly, and answer without all gears fully engaged.

By all means, try posting over at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gcpba/messages for more than 2,000 folks who know a lot more than me about the Grand, and just may well have dealt with this issue before. 

Have a good one.

Rich Phillips


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## GoodTimes (Mar 9, 2006)

I don't see what the big deal is with your group/TL. Seriously...it takes about 1 minute to secure a kayak on top of the rest of the gear and it only weighs about 50lbs (not gonna make a dent in a 1500lb rig). I've strapped many a yak on my S$%t and it didn't make enough of a difference in my rigging/de-rigging for me to bitch about. 

Yeah, I guess I'm usually the guy that says......"I'll take it". I don't see what the big deal is. Is there not ONE oarsman on that trip that'll be willing to toss it on everyday??? Pretty easy IMO. I've never done the hike (but will in November). This is an interesting thread for me as I plan my ACCENT (not taking my kayak though).

I guess being both an oarsman AND a kayaker sways my opinion.


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## moetown (May 8, 2007)

*Kayak Humunga Hike*

Big Tuna--There are a couple of options to getting the kayak to Phantom. Wheels aren't legal because of the mechanical device in a wilderness thing, unfortunately. Also commercial trips aren't running at that time but science trips are. And those are some sad, poor sons of b--. Offer them money and they will jump on it like two bums fighting over a bologna sandwich. Try USGS in Flagstaff. Try wildlands council in Flagstaff, and there may be one more. Also, try other trips. I think there's something like 60 trips going that month. I wouldn't care abit if you gave me your skirt so I could Squirt. Pay me? Forget about it. Done Deal. While we are talking payment, I'll hike it for $500 cash, check or CC. If you come a few days early I'll give you a job running shuttles so you can pay me

It doesn't have to get there right at your launch day. There are places to store it. Put out an auction for runniing it down through privates from Jan-March. It's sure to garnish a handful of japslaps on this forum but it's incredibly funny listening to the creative banter! A gift! For all!

Brady Black
Moenkopi Riverworks





Big Tuna said:


> I got invited on a GC trip in March and can only make the second part of the trip. I have never hiked in to phantom ranch and was curious about a few things:
> 1. Has anyone ever hiked in their gear and yak in to Phantom?
> 2. What is the hike like if I have all that gear? Is it realistic? How long would it take?
> 3. Are there companies that will get my gear and kayak down there? Raft? Mule? If so which ones and how much do they charge?
> ...


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