# Deso Trip Mid September - expected flow is 1700 cfs. NEW ROWER



## Utahgirlonthefly (Sep 5, 2019)

I've been a passenger on several rivers (Main, Middle, Yampa, and The Snake) but have only rowed a few miles of river. We have a pretty big experienced group running Deso Sept 17-25. I'm wanting to try this trip as my first time solo row on a cutthroat. Just wanted input if it's a doable river for a first time rower. I'll be following lines of others but with bony waters expected, wondering if the technicality of exposed rocks, etc will be manageable for a newbie on sticks. 

Thanks guys!


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## RidgeLivin (Apr 25, 2019)

You should be fine. You will be able to get lots of practice in during the first couple days on the upper flatwater section. Practice spinning around, making quick turns, going forward, going backward, etc. Ask for advice from the other experienced rowers. By the time you get to the rapids, you will have way more than a few miles under your belt. I did it at 2200 CFS last year. It was bony in spots, but should be no issues if you hit your lines. I would recommend scouting the Class IIIs so that you can identify obstacles. The obstacles are sometimes impossible to see from the approach, so scouting is always helpful. Coal Creek will be the most difficult to scout because you can only see it from a distance upstream. I still think it is worth scouting. Other advice I have:


Begin making your moves early. Keep an eye on what's coming downstream and react as soon as possible.
Upsteram ferries are your friend (facing downstream, but rowing backwards to decrease closure time). If there is a big rock on the left that you are trying to avoid in the rapid, face that rock and row backwards away from it (you will be rowing upstream right).
Don't forget to bring too much beer. You will be rowing off the calories, so will need more beer than you think.

I am launching in a few days with an estimated flow at 1700-1800 CFS, so will give you a report of anything I learn from the rapids at that flow.


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## campnfloat (Sep 14, 2017)

I'd be interested in a report after these trips, as I have a 10/1 launch date, first time running D/G and very much looking forward to it. Flows should be slightly higher by then due to irrigation stoppage and increase release from Flaming Gorge dam. But still, lower water than I was hoping for. Any information at lower water would be much appreciated!! Happy floating!


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## Utahgirlonthefly (Sep 5, 2019)

RidgeLivin said:


> You should be fine. You will be able to get lots of practice in during the first couple days on the upper flatwater section. Practice spinning around, making quick turns, going forward, going backward, etc. Ask for advice from the other experienced rowers. By the time you get to the rapids, you will have way more than a few miles under your belt. I did it at 2200 CFS last year. It was bony in spots, but should be no issues if you hit your lines. I would recommend scouting the Class IIIs so that you can identify obstacles. The obstacles are sometimes impossible to see from the approach, so scouting is always helpful. Coal Creek will be the most difficult to scout because you can only see it from a distance upstream. I still think it is worth scouting. Other advice I have:
> 
> 
> Begin making your moves early. Keep an eye on what's coming downstream and react as soon as possible.
> ...


Yes! Thank you so much! I would definitely appreciate any intel!


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## agrankin (Aug 31, 2017)

You should be fine for sure. Suggest watching some of the youtube videos of deso at low flows. don't rely on them, but it will help you get familiar with what is out there. We ran it at ~2100 7/27-8/1 this year. I was a bit surprised by how low flows affected Joe Hutch Canyon rapid and Wire Fence - made Joe Hutch a bit more challenging and the drop at Wire Fence a bit more dramatic. All in all you be fine. Also suggest watching Northwest Rafting Company's vids on rafting -- as RidgeLivin suggested keep your nose pointed at the danger and row backwards - that is a great defensive and conservative approach. And practice moving back and forth across the river using both forward and backward rows -- and practice catching eddies.


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## agrankin (Aug 31, 2017)

Oh yeah and in low flows be a keen observer for sand bars. In general, follow the bubble line and generally the outside bend in the river usually carries the most flow.


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## Utahgirlonthefly (Sep 5, 2019)

agrankin said:


> You should be fine for sure. Suggest watching some of the youtube videos of deso at low flows. don't rely on them, but it will help you get familiar with what is out there. We ran it at ~2100 7/27-8/1 this year. I was a bit surprised by how low flows affected Joe Hutch Canyon rapid and Wire Fence - made Joe Hutch a bit more challenging and the drop at Wire Fence a bit more dramatic. All in all you be fine. Also suggest watching Northwest Rafting Company's vids on rafting -- as RidgeLivin suggested keep your nose pointed at the danger and row backwards - that is a great defensive and conservative approach. And practice moving back and forth across the river using both forward and backward rows -- and practice catching eddies.


Thank you!!!! I'll definitely jump on those youtubes and vids!


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## wasatchnomad (Aug 11, 2014)

I second what the others have already said. Sandbars and shallow spots in the dirt water can be a real pain to read at first. A good pair of polarized sunglasses will help. Look for the tiny riffles (looks like light wind on the water) and that is generally the sand bar or shallow water. For low water trips on Deso and in general "less is more.. until it is not enough" pack light but warm enough. An overloaded boat and long sand bars is a "real drag" (pun intended) but seriously it can beat down your spirits and make for long days. Last bit of advise is scout from above and below when possible. The rapids have a way of revealing hidden rocks when looking from below. Good luck! I am sure you will do great.


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## Utahgirlonthefly (Sep 5, 2019)

wasatchnomad said:


> I second what the others have already said. Sandbars and shallow spots in the dirt water can be a real pain to read at first. A good pair of polarized sunglasses will help. Look for the tiny riffles (looks like light wind on the water) and that is generally the sand bar or shallow water. For low water trips on Deso and in general "less is more.. until it is not enough" pack light but warm enough. An overloaded boat and long sand bars is a "real drag" (pun intended) but seriously it can beat down your spirits and make for long days. Last bit of advise is scout from above and below when possible. The rapids have a way of revealing hidden rocks when looking from below. Good luck! I am sure you will do great.


Thank you so much! Will be scouting from up and down.


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## Utahgirlonthefly (Sep 5, 2019)

RidgeLivin said:


> You should be fine. You will be able to get lots of practice in during the first couple days on the upper flatwater section. Practice spinning around, making quick turns, going forward, going backward, etc. Ask for advice from the other experienced rowers. By the time you get to the rapids, you will have way more than a few miles under your belt. I did it at 2200 CFS last year. It was bony in spots, but should be no issues if you hit your lines. I would recommend scouting the Class IIIs so that you can identify obstacles. The obstacles are sometimes impossible to see from the approach, so scouting is always helpful. Coal Creek will be the most difficult to scout because you can only see it from a distance upstream. I still think it is worth scouting. Other advice I have:
> 
> 
> Begin making your moves early. Keep an eye on what's coming downstream and react as soon as possible.
> ...


Hahahahaha. I just saw the beer part. I dont drink but I smoke and I'll be smoking like a chimney from stress, I'm sure.


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## raymo (Aug 10, 2008)

Low water Deso, you will definitely have a, spiritual awakening, keep the smokes close and the stress down, you will do fine. Have fun, it's a beautiful river through there.


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## villagelightsmith (Feb 17, 2016)

Learning The Strokes!

So, you want to learn to row a raft! Here's my stroke teaching sequence:
A. Throw some little sticks into little currents of water. See where the currents take them. Elementary studies, yes. But basics are SO important!
B. Ask yourself, "Where on the current do I want to be to get myself where I want to go? What happens to me when my stick arrives?"
On the river ...
1. You, the student, will sit high on the load behind an experienced laid-back oarsman. Let him/her mentor you, explain and show you what you're seeing, where the water's going, where it's coming from, where it's taking you, what it's gonna do to the boat. He/she shouldn't talk too much ... just point things out.
2. You ... Learn the basic strokes for each side and when it's your turn, practice what they make the boat do. ( left, right, forward, reverse, ferry, spin.)
3. Read the currents and Call those basic strokes to your Mentor on the oars. Visualize, Watch the results of your calls. 
4. Your Mentor should follow your directions, let you screw up, but save you at the last second, after it's almost too late. 
5. When your Mentor thinks you are ready, he/she will likely be tired of the game and you can take the sticks away from him. (Verbalize what you're going to do; learn to jump an eddyline, peel-out into a current, duck in below a rock into a micro-eddy, forward and reverse ferry using the current.)
6. In an hour, you mentor the next person. Park the next newbie high on the load behind you, rinse and repeat as needed.
Everybody stays engaged, and the experienced mentor can sprawl out over the load and take a _one-eyed_ nap.
Half a day, and you're both usually quite ready for the river we're on. At that point, I can close the other eye.


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## gdaut (Jul 30, 2019)

We did Deso a couple of weeks ago at about 2000 cfs, in 6 days/5 nights. There is a thread on here somewhere with me asking similar questions and also a post trip report from me. 

You should be fine. The rapids are few and very manageable; not too rocky and if you are in a small cat it should be easy to get unstuck if you do get stuck. I found the rapids a lot less boney than I expected,so I would not expect a lot of getting stuck.


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

Get a copy of Tom Rampton's guidebook, his company name is Blacktail enterprises, not sure if it's still in print or not. I used to do Deso in October a lot, and contributed to the low water section in his book, he's got a lot about the geology and such in there that's not in the other books. The rivermaps guide is also a good one to have along. 

The main piece of advice I have for you, stay far right in 3 fords rapids, the river gets WIDE there, there are numerous choices that look doable, and end up with half mile drags thru the rocks, its' counter intuitive as it is the inside of the bend to the right, but that's where the water is. Everything else is read and run, a very fun trip at low water. Cool crisp mornings, mild temps during the days..

Make sure to check out https://rivershuttleus.com/ for your shuttle, they seem to have a stellar reputation so far with no damage reports I've heard of, and much cheaper than the competition..


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## stony2275 (Apr 26, 2010)

MNichols said:


> Get a copy of Tom Rampton's guidebook, his company name is Blacktail enterprises, not sure if it's still in print or not. I used to do Deso in October a lot, and contributed to the low water section in his book, he's got a lot about the geology and such in there that's not in the other books. The rivermaps guide is also a good one to have along.
> 
> The main piece of advice I have for you, stay far right in 3 fords rapids, the river gets WIDE there, there are numerous choices that look doable, and end up with half mile drags thru the rocks, its' counter intuitive as it is the inside of the bend to the right, but that's where the water is. Everything else is read and run, a very fun trip at low water. Cool crisp mornings, mild temps during the days..
> 
> Make sure to check out https://rivershuttleus.com/ for your shuttle, they seem to have a stellar reputation so far with no damage reports I've heard of, and much cheaper than the competition..


Another good shuttle service I have been using for decades. They also shuttle Ladore and Yampa.





"Self-guided, full support river running and white water rafting adventures: safe shuttle services, full or partial support river trips available, and complete, delicious meals are prepared. Whitewater river trips include: Gate of Lodore, Lower Yampa River, Desolation Canyon, Gray Canyon and White River. We rent river equipment that is of the highest quality, including Aire and NRS inflatable kayaks."


Self-guided, full support river running and white water rafting adventures: safe shuttle services, full or partial support river trips available, and complete, delicious meals meals are prepared. Whitewater river trips include: Gate of Lodore, Lower Yampa River, Desolation Canyon, Gray Canyon...



www.riverrunnerstransport.com


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## gdaut (Jul 30, 2019)

I believe the least costly shuttle option is the drop your boats and crew off at Sand Wash, drive the vehicles that need to be shuttled down to Green River yourself, and then have Redtail fly the drivers back to the put-in. It is $184 per person for the flight, so $184 per vehicle for the shuttle. The flight back over the river is nice, and you do not have to trust your vehicle to a shuttle driver. It does take a bit more time; you have to drop off the boats and crew the afternoon before your launch and et to Green River that evening, The flight back is at 7 am.


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## Johnzstz (Jun 3, 2019)

MNichols said:


> Get a copy of Tom Rampton's guidebook, his company name is Blacktail enterprises, not sure if it's still in print or not. I used to do Deso in October a lot, and contributed to the low water section in his book, he's got a lot about the geology and such in there that's not in the other books. The rivermaps guide is also a good one to have along.
> 
> The main piece of advice I have for you, stay far right in 3 fords rapids, the river gets WIDE there, there are numerous choices that look doable, and end up with half mile drags thru the rocks, its' counter intuitive as it is the inside of the bend to the right, but that's where the water is. Everything else is read and run, a very fun trip at low water. Cool crisp mornings, mild temps during the days..
> 
> Make sure to check out https://rivershuttleus.com/ for your shuttle, they seem to have a stellar reputation so far with no damage reports I've heard of, and much cheaper than the competition..


 Desolation Canyon River shuttle
I would absolutely recommend this company as they took care of us this week after the company that we originally booked with dropped the ball big time. Dusty is an outstanding guy and takes pride in rafting as well as his shuttle company!!!!!


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

Johnzstz said:


> Desolation Canyon River shuttle
> I would absolutely recommend this company as they took care of us this week after the company that we originally booked with dropped the ball big time. Dusty is an outstanding guy and takes pride in rafting as well as his shuttle company!!!!!


Hmmm.. Given that there's only one other shuttle company that does deso... Reports a month ago from another that used not Dusty and had his trailer damaged from flying down dirt roads.. 

Redtail absolutely rocks, but is a lot of driving for you and your crew, the reward being the flight back. They will fly a couple hundred feet above the river and follow it back to sand wash if conditions allow, and the pilot wants to, scout the whole thing from the air  Not to mention the photo ops...


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## peernisse (Jun 1, 2011)

Utahgirlonthefly said:


> I've been a passenger on several rivers (Main, Middle, Yampa, and The Snake) but have only rowed a few miles of river. We have a pretty big experienced group running Deso Sept 17-25. I'm wanting to try this trip as my first time solo row on a cutthroat. Just wanted input if it's a doable river for a first time rower. I'll be following lines of others but with bony waters expected, wondering if the technicality of exposed rocks, etc will be manageable for a newbie on sticks.
> 
> Thanks guys!


what are you going to do otherwise? Not go?


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## peernisse (Jun 1, 2011)

peernisse said:


> what are you going to do otherwise? Not go?


there is only one way to learn something like this, and that is by doing it. You will have a great time.


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## [email protected] (Jun 1, 2010)

Did a great Deso trip last week, Thanks for going to those that did. For those of you that were not there it was hot, VERY HOT. No bugs for the most part just some house flies. The flows were near perfect (1770), river almost empty with two small groups in front of us, one group of 2 boats the same day we launched and never saw anyone that launched after us. Got the camp sites we wanted every day. Went the last night past rattle snake on to Nefertiti and it was a little crowded, but lots of shade at camp. We were 90% loaded before any one else showed up at take out.

Had a coyotes raise hell one night (very loud howls) and pass through camp checking out 2 boats (muddy foot prints on boats gave them away).
We drank gin and tonics while watching a bear look for food across the river another night for about 45 minutes.
Saw about a dozen sheep.
The animals seemed to enjoy the lack of people.

Easy rowing, with a couple of times walking a boat about 5 feet. No up stream wind. We were in 12-14 foot rafts loaded with the normal gear, not back pack style.


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## ckirrk (Jul 13, 2013)

my wife and i have taken cutthroats down deso-gray a couple times on self supported trips we had all the gear on them for the 2 of us.the lowest water level was 1050 cfs, it was boney but easily navigable and having a little weight on the boat helps balance it depending on how you have it set up to row or paddle. which are you doing? We like the oarlocks centered so it's easy to pivot and row.

You want your boat to sit level in the water when you're in the boat--it will be easier to control if it is balanced properly and if one end is heavier it will drag on those sand bars. That being said don't worry about if too much if it isn't perfect. A friend of mine on a Grand trip was asked if she would help the boatman dump half of a full groover into an empty groover so his boat would be balanced. that is too much worrying about balance. 

You will a great trip. Even if heavily loaded with all your trip gear, being in a cutthroat is like being in a sports car versus a dump truck ie a 14 foot raft or bigger. best advice I _can give is don't get cocky--you might think "I can make that move". the river may take that opportunity to teach you something. The water can be very pushy in the rapid channels at low water and as stated before scout your run and start your move before you think you need to.I think the words "anticipate your move" were used. Des-gray is great because the rapids get just a little bit harder as you go down the canyon so you get to learn more as your skills improve.

I also agree with peernisse above. "there is only one way to learn something like this, and that is by doing it." If you are like many of us once you start rowing you can't ride along any more. 
Let us know, Cheers_


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