# St, Joe's River / Grand Ronde- intel please



## mattviles (Jun 13, 2018)

Grand Ronde is great- many, many good camps, tons of wildlife, fishing can be good, easy rapids but enough to keep it interesting. Great scenery, self-issue permit at put-in. Highly recommend, thought tempted to lie for the sake of numbers!


----------



## shappattack (Jul 17, 2008)

Yep, I got some intel, make sure to use a groover and use a fire pan, its the rules on the Wallowa-Grande Ronde (not saying you wouldn't) just a reminder for any newbies that might find this thread while searching for info on the Wallowa-Grande Ronde.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bdO8Tx0N7d0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBL-YpC3VvY


----------



## GOTY2011 (Mar 18, 2018)

Lot of Danger Noodles on the GR, FYI. Minam to Troy through the W&S is a great trip, ice/bathrooms at Troy but be prepared to not need it. Stretch it out down to the newly rebuilt Boggan's Oasis but the camp sites become very scarce and you'll find a lot of private land. Oasis down to the Snake is a great float also.


----------



## griz (Sep 19, 2005)

One heads up on the Grande Ronde, campsites are first come, first serve, for better or worse. Those who are fans of crack of noon launches will be “rewarded” with allot of other parties waving at you from the campsite you wanted for the night as you float on by, hoping for something to be open soon.

It’s a beautiful canyon but crowded and competitive for campsites in the prime season. I did it once, ,mid week even, but doubt I’d do it again unless it was some off season, crowd controlling ELF deal or whatnots.


----------



## Paul7 (Aug 14, 2012)

I live somewhat near the St Joe I've only day floated the section through Avery. There is another run further up that is more class three ish. I suppose you could do a multiday on it but I think you would have a very difficult time finding camps the Canyon is narrow with the highway on one side (think lochsa). Below Marble Creek it is still floatable for quite a while but no whitewater. 

Grand Rhonde is a much better multiday in my experience if you can launch anytime other than the weekend you will have a much easier time with camps.

Everyone loves the upper roadless section as do I but sometimes I think the lower gets overlooked. There is little timber and more Hells Canyon topography and more road access but I still thoroughly enjoy it.


----------



## Elvez (Mar 29, 2005)

Yeah the Joe would be a weird one to try a multi-day since it's right next to the road the whole way and the whitewater sections are all pretty concentrated. Most people just car camp and run the good sections as day trips, but you could definitely link it all together by putting in at Fly Flat to run through Tumbledown and Skookum Canyon and take out just above Avery. You could probably squeeze a couple nights on the river out of that stretch, although as mentioned above, camps might be tough to figure out. There's one part where the river does bow away from the road that has a nice cobble bank. but other than that the banks tend to be narrow and steep.
Look into the NF Clearwater maybe?


----------



## Scotsman (Jan 26, 2019)

Elvez said:


> Yeah the Joe would be a weird one to try a multi-day since it's right next to the road the whole way and the whitewater sections are all pretty concentrated. Most people just car camp and run the good sections as day trips, but you could definitely link it all together by putting in at Fly Flat to run through Tumbledown and Skookum Canyon and take out just above Avery. You could probably squeeze a couple nights on the river out of that stretch, although as mentioned above, camps might be tough to figure out. There's one part where the river does bow away from the road that has a nice cobble bank. but other than that the banks tend to be narrow and steep.
> Look into the NF Clearwater maybe?


OK thanks much for this advice - looks nice on a map but onto the Grand Ronde


----------



## Scotsman (Jan 26, 2019)

*Maps / guides for Grand Ronde*

So... can anyone suggest maps / river guides for the Grand Ronde multi-day? Thanks


----------



## griz (Sep 19, 2005)

This is the one I brought which is mostly for campsite locations as the rapids are easy, read and run stuff.

https://www.troutmap.com/product-page/grande-ronde-minam-and-palmer-junction-to-troy

If going all the way to the snake then there is a second set for that stretch.


----------



## shappattack (Jul 17, 2008)

This is the water proof map you want for $8 that covers the entire river from Minam to Hellar Bar, instead of the $19 map Griz posted. The $19 map doesn't have any real additional information over the $8 waterproof book and the $19 map only covers Minam to Troy. They also sell it at the Minam Store.

Wallowa & Grande Ronde Rivers Boater's Guide

https://www.nrs.com/product/66210.01/wallowa-grande-ronde-rivers-boaters-guide-book


----------



## Scotsman (Jan 26, 2019)

*Thank you*

Superb! Thanks so much. I'd rather go in June for warmer weather - but would you recommend May for less people and better flows?


----------



## Paul7 (Aug 14, 2012)

If you want to float 5 to 7 days on the GR I'd float from Minam all the way to the Snake.

The owner of the hotel/guide service is Grant and he is awesome. He can arrange shuttle and pre float lodging and is a wealth of information.

He allows tent camping on his property for a small fee.

Just don't start your float on a Saturday it's crazy but weekdays seem mild.



Sent from my SM-G965U using Mountain Buzz mobile app


----------



## Scotsman (Jan 26, 2019)

OK thanks Griz


----------



## ski_kayak365 (Dec 7, 2003)

Scotsman,

I'll add some info for the St. Joe, in case in the future you decide to come play on it. I live in Avery and paddle on Joe much of the year. High water kayak and cataraft, low water kayak and SUP.

The St. Joe is one of the lesser known Wild and Scenic Rivers; from the headwaters to the town of Avery. The wild section is not available for rafting due to access and log jams, though a pack raft or kayak would be perfect. I have not yet done it, as by the time the road opens from snow, it's out of water.
The Scenic section is, yes roadside, but in truth, there isn't enough traffic to notice. It's not like the Lochsa which has a major highway next to it. It is class I - IV and 40 miles(Red Ives to Avery). It is world class fly fishing river as well. 

This is just the Wild and Scenic sections, there is another 30 miles of river below Avery, Class I/II.

Red Ives to Conrad campground (14 miles) is II-III (IV and high water)
Conrad to Bluff Creek road (7 miles) III/IV
Bluff to Turner Flat Campground (13 miles) II, has an excellent gooseneck away from the highway and could allow camping on the backside.
Turner to mile marker 50 (6 miles) II-III. Skookum canyon
Mile 50 to Avery, (3 miles) - Avery to Calder (20 miles) class I-II.

Camping: This is the challenging part. There are not many beaches to camp, it's a tight canyon with the forest directly down to the river. Best option is to roughly pre-choose dispersed or pay campgrounds along the river and leave a tent or two at each spot for when you arrive. 

Rough Schedule:
Day 1: coming from Avery, leave shuttle rig (or touch base with me, I'll drop you off and leave the car in Avery.) Stop at sights going up the canyon to pre-set campsites and check out sections of rapids. Launch from Red Ives, stop and camp at Conrad Campground or a dispersed site just above.
Day 2: Conrad to the gooseneck. Biggest section of whitewater, rig to flip. camp on the gooseneck away from the road.
Day 3: gooseneck to Turner/Tin can campgrounds or a dispersed site. Fish and relax.
Day 4: site to Avery, rig to flip (not really, skookum is only a mile long of class III. Unless your at peak water). Stop at the Avery Fly shop, get huckleberry milk shakes. check in with me if needed. Camp at a dispersed site in the next 8 miles.
Day 5: site to the highway bridge, take out. 52ish miles completed. 

Gives you a rough idea of how to make it a multi-day.

Snowpack, runoff, access:
We have lower level mountains and snowpack. 6/7K mtns. Our prime runoff is April to early June. I wouldn't count on getting a raft down parts of the upper Joe after July 4th. It's possible, but not always an option. Check with me or locals.
Access: if it's early enough in the year, prior to Memorial Day, the passes into the St. Joe valley may still be closed. Long way to Avery almost going to Coeur d'Alene and back up the canyon. If the passes are open, St. Regis, MT will drop you in at Conrad Campground, or Wallace, ID takes you right to Avery.

I rarely use the buzz anymore, so if you (anyone) has more questions or info, shoot me an email. My user name @hotmail.com

Josh


----------



## shappattack (Jul 17, 2008)

Back to the Wallowa/Grande Ronde,
be on the lookout, there be samsquatch in them woods
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zdg09ChzCkk


----------



## Scotsman (Jan 26, 2019)

So -- thanks to all for info and we're going for the Grand Ronde this year - last week in May. Can anyone recommend shuttle companies and / or self-shuttle strategy (how long of a shuttle is it?). Also - are there good camps at put-in and take-out? 

Thanks


----------



## Paul7 (Aug 14, 2012)

It's a long shuttle if you are doing the roadless section.

Minam Store does the shuttle
541-437-1111

If you are doing the lower then Bogans Oasis is your best bet. 

Sent from my SM-G965U using Mountain Buzz mobile app


----------



## Elvez (Mar 29, 2005)

*Takeout camping*

If you're floating all the way to the Snake and you want to camp at the takeout, I'd suggest taking out on the GR a mile or so upstream of the mouth. You don't want to camp at Heller Bar. There's a ramp a mile or so upstream and a couple decent spots to camp on that last bit below the Narrows. One in particular is just upstream of the concrete bridge a couple miles upstream of the mouth, but you can camp right around the takeout ramp as well.


----------

