# Selway 5/24



## idaho_h2o (May 5, 2005)

Don't worry about the line in Ladle, you'll want to scout it anyway. 

You need to be aware that all the data in the world might not apply on the day you're on there. If you're not prepared to run it at 5', your group should cancel now. I've started the drive to the put in when it was 4.5' and receding and ended up launching over 7' from rain that fell all night. I've also launched at 7.5' and have it go over 10' in a few hours. Several groups were hiking and flying out, leaving all their gear behind. 

You should know the best dates have all recently been given to outfitters leaving a narrow window for private boaters, add in the rollovers and the situation is abysmal. We will never gain any ground (and shouldn't) if we are constantly having private dates go unused on such a limited resource. While I don't mind grabbing cancellations, many times they don't come up until it is too late, even if the put in is a couple of hours away. Sorry to come off preachy or like an a hole but the selfishness of the outdoor rec community in this regard needs to be addressed. My opinion is no one has any business grabbing permits ~ May 15 - June 15 with cut offs like that. It hurts all of us immeasurably.

My final bit of advice is just go. Have trip participants lined up that are capable, take craft that you can self rescue/ reflip by yourself, and have the time of your life... or don't. Just don't be the reason for another private launch date to go unused, it is a stain on our community.


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## arrakis429 (May 14, 2018)

Ok, well thanks for that :-/
Sure. I think your opinion is valid - to restate this is not my permit and these are not my cut-offs. We are playing by the least common denominator in the group. But I do appreciate your final bit of advice - maybe having a more capable or willing boatperson ready to take the helm from the least experienced/comfortable boat person would be a way to ensure the trip goes out. I can certainly work on that. I'll be sure to pass on the remainder of your input to the permit holder.

A suggestion for you perhaps... In the compendium of knowledge surrounding the Selway trip on the web, I have yet to read about the private boater ramifications of cancelled permits on the community. I have read about plenty of hairy trips where the water has gone up and made things dangerous, but have never read anything before your post that so specifically stated "My opinion is no one has any business grabbing permits ~ May 15 - June 15 with cut offs like that (5'). It hurts all of us immeasurably.' Add to the knowledge of the resource if you are willing. Sounds like you have several trips under your belt on the Selway, I'm sure you have plenty to offer.


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## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

You will want to plan an extra day of contingency delay so you don't get fired. It can be nice to stop and sit for a day if it surges especially with wood.


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## NoCo (Jul 21, 2009)

lhowemt said:


> You will want to plan an extra day of contingency delay so you don't get fired. It can be nice to stop and sit for a day if it surges especially with wood.


That happened to me back in 06. River flashed. We woke with the river flowing thru our camp. We made the decision to lay over that day. Boating with logs didnt seem that fun.


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## Blade&Shaft (May 23, 2009)

It spiked largely over the last few days now in the 18k range. Basins don’t look to be holding a ton per average but wondering the same for my May 19 launch and previous thread on the same topic. Hoping to not see it at 50k+ and doubtful it will get there but if our timing is just right... or wrong...


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## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

Yeah it looks like it might have peaked for the season, barring rain events. Have fun!


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## JWesleyP (May 14, 2021)

It was 9' at the Lowell gage when we put in at paradise on May 7. Went with mostly kayakers and I had a 13' oar rig which was barely light enough to self rescue (took 3 of us to unflip between double drop and wa poots). That particular oar frame was not exactly class IV worthy which I found out a little too late once we put on it became evident that the class II and unnamed rapids were capable of flipping our raft (at least saved the flip for moose juice) and collapsing our oar towers, breaking leashes, unseating the cheap rubber oar stops which I will never use again. With the help of a couple additional paddlers on the raft we made it through without loosing anything or getting hurt. Had some exciting lines to say the least! Probably wouldn't do it again that high, especially with the janky oar rig, maybe if I had a more reliable set up I'd think about it differently 🤔 The water dropped closer to 7' by the time we got to moose juice which was a relief, opened up a line on the right side of ladle because otherwise we were going to portage. It which was spicy but manageable.


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## idaho_h2o (May 5, 2005)

Just an fyi- by the gauge conversion, it looks like you launched around 6' at Paradise May 7 dropping quickly to below 4' on May 11. Those flows are solidly in the medium range, especially when you would have been in moose juice. Most folks use the Paradise foot gauge when talking flows. You can find the Lowell cfs to Paradise ft conversion with a quick google search. The Lowell foot gauge reads somewhere around 3'-4' higher than Paradise. 

Flows I'm referencing, which can happen overnight that time of year, would be 2X-3X the flow you had. It is a completely different character, just want others to be aware. The Selway can be so flashy that it's always a bit of a gamble. Most times it works out like it did for you and you have a nice medium level. Other times it goes ballistic and ends up being an experience the average rafter isn't looking for.


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## JWesleyP (May 14, 2021)

idaho_h2o said:


> Just an fyi- by the gauge conversion, it looks like you launched around 6' at Paradise May 7 dropping quickly to below 4' on May 11. Those flows are solidly in the medium range, especially when you would have been in moose juice. Most folks use the Paradise foot gauge when talking flows. You can find the Lowell cfs to Paradise ft conversion with a quick google search. The Lowell foot gauge reads somewhere around 3'-4' higher than Paradise.
> 
> Flows I'm referencing, which can happen overnight that time of year, would be 2X-3X the flow you had. It is a completely different character, just want others to be aware. The Selway can be so flashy that it's always a bit of a gamble. Most times it works out like it did for you and you have a nice medium level. Other times it goes ballistic and ends up being an experience the average rafter isn't looking for.


Good to know, thanks for the clarification. Definitely a big difference between 9' and 6' flows. And even at those medium levels, I was relieved to see it drop rather than rise over the 4 days we were out there, perhaps a more experienced oarsman wouldn't have been phased but it was certainly a good challenge for me!


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