# Suggestions for unguided trip in Colorado?



## jones72 (Mar 2, 2009)

Hello,
First, my background. I've taken a series of kayak lessons, used to go quite at bit some years ago. I'm not advanced by any means, but I am at least well versed in whitewater safety, etc. I've been on a few guided whitewater rafting trips. I've never guided a raft myself.

I really want to do an unguided ~3 day trip this spring. I'm in Denver, so somewhere within reasonable distance. I'm just in the initial 'thought' phase, so I'm looking for some suggestions on a stretch of river to run and any tips you can provide on party size, equipment rental, shuttle, when to go, etc.

Just based on VERY preliminary research, mostly based on location, the upper Rio Grande looks interesting. Apparently if you start lower, it's mostly Class II with one Class III. I figure Class III is probably a stretch for us, but maybe somebody here knows that river. I might be willing to take a rafting class if that is strongly recommended and if I can find something for a reasonable price (so far what I've seen is way too rich for my blood). For the most part, I'd prefer to stick to tamer water (Class II & lower)... but not TOO boring 

I'd really appreciate any advice you guys could throw my way.

Thanks!


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## Wnt2b0at (Oct 26, 2008)

I just got back from floating Dewey Bridge to takeout beach just outside of Moab. I did it as a solo trip. Pretty nice this time of year. The first 6-7 miles was VERY flat, that 13 miles or so of swifter current with some class two. There are camp sites with toilets and picnic tables along the way, so you can cut down on gear. You can also add another 10 miles by taking out where the Colorado crosses the highway north of Moab. Very nice this time of year. Friday was somewaht chilly and windy, but Saturday was gorgeous!


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## UserName (Sep 7, 2007)

Upper Colorado is the perfect beginner run. Several calss II II+/III- runs back to back, can make a nice multiday trip out of it. Can male as many days as you want really. Look up Pumphouse to State Bridge and or Catamount Bridge.

Down by Moab is a lot warmer now and can set a couple days aside for biking before it gets busy there. Nice time of year for Moab


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## 1whitewattafoo (Nov 25, 2007)

do ruby/horsethief canyon. put in is in loma just outside of GJ, you take out at the westwater putin. reall just a 2 day trip but there are couple good hikes to be had for a lay over. ALSO CONSIDER GORE CANYON YOU COULD MAKE A 5 DAY PORTAGE TRIP OUT OF IT.


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## riojedi (May 23, 2005)

2nd for Ruby/Horse. At lower flows you'll want 3 days. These guys can set you up. Colorado River Tours (Gunnison and Dolores Rivers): Rimrock Adventures You can also launch from their place to add a few miles.


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## duncleston (Jul 31, 2007)

Way to take the leap! You might find the trip more fun and relaxing if you can dig up some experienced folks to join you. Could probably find some willing and skilled mentors on this board if you throw the invitation out there...Just a thought.


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## yetigonecrazy (May 23, 2005)

what stretch of the Rio G were you looking at?

the stretch from Rio Geezy Reservoir (sometimes called the upper, but really its the middle or or upper middle in CO) is tucked in a box canyon on the other side of the mountain from the road, and the whitewater, while not hard, is somewhat continuous in nature- maybe not the best place to learn on. the stretch from wagon wheel gap down to collier/south fork is probably what you were lookin at, and thats good if it has flows, its mostly class II with lots of random waves and holes. there are commercials but i dont think its with any of the numbers that inhabit other reaches of the state, ark, poudre, shoshone.

my vote is pumphouse to anywhere below. dont limit yourself to state bridge, aim for catamount of even further, you can float for miles.

lower northgate? is it possible to run the stretch below the IV's?

ark is fun for day trips

san juan?


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## jones72 (Mar 2, 2009)

I didn't think anybody replied. Turns out my email notifications were hitting my spam filter.
So anyway, glad I checked, there's a bunch of great info here. Thanks guys! Definitely some places I didn't think of that I should look into... minus the 5 day portage  Time to hunker down and start doing some research and make a decision.

Yetigonecrazy... as for the Rio G... I really don't know. I was just looking for something down south as it is a part of the country I had not experienced much. So, I was just looking for something different... spotted it on the map.. and then read this... Colorado Whitewater Rafting & Kayaking by Rivers - Rio Grande River - The Colorado Directory
It was the last 2 or 3 paragraphs of that page that I was referring to (Middle Box, Orilla Verde and Racecourse). 

I've also always really want to do Dolores canyon. But I think that's bit longer drive than I was looking for and maybe too advanced for this noob anyway.
I think the pumphouse and horsethief are great suggestions. Also, I -love- the Moab and Canyonlands country. You guys also mentioned some things I never heard of, so I'll google those. And yeah, I agree some more experience would be a good addition to the trip.

I'm thinking somewhere around the April/May timeframe. 

Dumb question... but how do guys usually handle the logistics of getting back to your starting point? Take two cars & drop one off at the take-out point? Or are there sometimes shuttles you can take back? Or just hitchhike?  (I did that one time near state bridge... stuck vehicle... made for a LONG day).

Well, I'm sure I'm not done with my questions yet, but I have a starting point now. Glad I found this board!


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## freeheeltim (Mar 3, 2009)

Since you have a springtime trip planned, consider the Dolores. It's beautiful, doesn't require a permit for private parties (I think?), and largely mellow water. Snaggletooth can be a ripper if the water's high enough, but the flows don't usually get too high with the limited water in the Dolores. Great 3-4 day trip.


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## yetigonecrazy (May 23, 2005)

jones72 said:


> I didn't think anybody replied.  Turns out my email notifications were hitting my spam filter.
> So anyway, glad I checked, there's a bunch of great info here. Thanks guys! Definitely some places I didn't think of that I should look into... minus the 5 day portage  Time to hunker down and start doing some research and make a decision.
> 
> Yetigonecrazy... as for the Rio G... I really don't know. I was just looking for something down south as it is a part of the country I had not experienced much. So, I was just looking for something different... spotted it on the map.. and then read this... Colorado Whitewater Rafting & Kayaking by Rivers - Rio Grande River - The Colorado Directory
> ...


Well, let me tell you this first: find a different site. That site you were looking at is LOADED with inaccurate information!! None of those stretches is even IN Colorado, theyre all in NM, and the information they have is a joke. 

"The most commonly rafted section of the river is the Rio Grande Gorge, which runs 68 miles through southern Colorado and New Mexico. The gorge contains the most and best rafting in New Mexico. Surrounding you will be the rugged basalt cliffs, which plunge 800 feet to the river, dotted with juniper, cedar and sage, as well as ravens, falcons and eagles. The river is more difficult the further upstream you start."
-> its actually the other way around, the further south you go, the harder it becomes. the Rio G is flat from colorado until about Ute Mountain, which is the start of the "Razots" run, which has difficult logistics and is solid class IV.

"The first section, The Taos Box, runs 16 miles through intense and challenging class IV+ rapids. With names like Dead Car, Pinball and Sunset, this is the state's premier whitewater run. You may miss the beautiful scenery, as all your attention will be focused on navigating your way through your exciting adventure. The Middle Box runs 18 miles through class II and III rapids. This section runs through remotes and rarely visited pristine wilderness. Many kayaks and canoes travel this section of the river."
-> ?????? They have this all confused. The UPPER Taos Box begins at Chiflo C.G. and ends a handful of miles down, and it is hike in, hike out, solid class V boating through several scary rapids, where the rock is shaped like swiss cheese and the rapids are chock full of sieves. Rapids like Big Arsenic and Hell Hole are the norm here. The LOWER Taos Box is 14 miles long, and runs from John Dunn Bridge to Taos Jct Bridge. While it is mostly class III, its long and committing, and several of the rapids approach class IV rating, including the big boy Powerline, which is a solid class IV at most levels. The rapids mentioned as being in the "above" box, Dead Car, Pinball, and Sunset, are all actually in this stretch. I would not want to take a canoe down that river.

"The Orilla Verde is a more mellow and scenic part of the river with towering bluffs and buttes. Along the way you will see Indian petroglyphs as well. This 10-mile section floats you through class II rapids. "
-> Orilla Verde is 4 miles long and contains one class II rapid, and there are no petroglyphs. It's still in the basalt gorge, so the "towering buttes and bluffs" are no where to be found.

"Last, the Racecourse section of the river runs through 5 miles of almost constant action of thrilling and rollercoaster rapids. The walls of the gorge around you rise 1,500 feet throwing you through class III rapids. This is the most popular section of the river to raft."
-> This is the Pilar section, and this entry is about the only one that is correct, although the canyon halls have pretty much been 1500 hundred feet deep since about John Dunn bridge upstream.

If you want some solid, positive, boater driven beta, check out these two sites:
EddyFlower
American Whitewater

on EddyFlower, click on the "Rivers" tab just below the title, and then click on the state of Colorado or New Mexico. on AW, do the same thing except click on "River Info -> National River Database", and click on CO or NM again. Both of those sites have lots and lots of CORRECT info about the things you are interested in. Browse around there and get a better picture of what you're looking for and we can help from there.


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## rivermanryan (Oct 30, 2003)

Yeah, what a bunch of crap. There are inaccuracies all throughout that website you mentioned above! Check out some of the other discriptions.


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## jones72 (Mar 2, 2009)

Doh! Good to know. You mean I can't believe everything I read on the web?  
That was literally just the first place I looked when I searched on something like "colorado rio grande rafting". Then realized it would be better for me to start here. Glad I did. I'll check out your suggested sites. Thanks!


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## jones72 (Mar 2, 2009)

freeheeltim said:


> Since you have a springtime trip planned, consider the Dolores. It's beautiful, doesn't require a permit for private parties (I think?), and largely mellow water. Snaggletooth can be a ripper if the water's high enough, but the flows don't usually get too high with the limited water in the Dolores. Great 3-4 day trip.


If I remember correctly from a little research a while ago, it doesn't require a permit in Colorado, but does once you cross into Utah. Something like that... I'll check.


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## TakemetotheRiver (Oct 4, 2007)

The Dolores is probably my favorite run- it's beautiful with some excitement. Snaggletooth is easily portaged (a wrap is your biggest concern on this section), but I would recommend checking out the middle section from Slick Rock down- Class II, also beautiful.

The Rio Chama is unpermitted through the weekend of April 24th and is a designated Wild and Scenic river in New Mexico. I'm going to do it that weekend, pm me if you are interested in joining.

If you want more excitement than that, the Racecourse on the Rio Grande is a very forgiving Class III run.


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## FrankC (Jul 8, 2008)

Pumphouse to Catamount Bridge is a nice 3 day 2 night trip and only a few hrs from Denver. Have the shuttle handled by the folks at Rancho Del Rio (it should run about 50-60 bucks). Good fishing and scenery on this stretch. There is a train that goes by every 20 minutes or so but that didn't bother me at all. I just wave to the passengers while I'm sitting on the groover.



jones72 said:


> Dumb question... but how do guys usually handle the logistics of getting back to your starting point? Take two cars & drop one off at the take-out point? Or are there sometimes shuttles you can take back? Or just hitchhike?  (I did that one time near state bridge... stuck vehicle... made for a LONG day).
> 
> Well, I'm sure I'm not done with my questions yet, but I have a starting point now. Glad I found this board!


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## cadster (May 1, 2005)

Eddyflower has things wrong for the Rio Grande, too.

It puts the Conejos in NM and duplicates the runs in the headwaters.

Near Creede there are now a series of fish structures that have made ledge drops similar to Mesa Canyon on the San Juan.




yetigonecrazy said:


> If you want some solid, positive, boater driven beta, check out these two sites:
> EddyFlower
> American Whitewater


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## jones72 (Mar 2, 2009)

I don't know if I'd like the train... but good fishing? Now we're talkin! I forgot to mention that as another key criteria


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## Andy H. (Oct 13, 2003)

> I don't know if I'd like the train


Earplugs help LOTs for getting a good night's sleep, you get used to it during the day time.


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## jones72 (Mar 2, 2009)

Yeah, no doubt. I'm a light sleeper as it is... i think with the train, I wouldn't even bother trying. I'd find myself looking for ways to pass the time in desert in the middle of the night. Snipe hunting, coyote calling... etc.




Andy H. said:


> Earplugs help LOTs for getting a good night's sleep, you get used to it during the day time.


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