# Steering a Paddle Raft



## DoubleYouEss (Oct 4, 2011)

run it as a stern mount paddle assisted rig, or just a paddle assisted oar boat.


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## carvedog (May 11, 2005)

tanderson said:


> Ok, I've been rafting for three years but only on an oar rig. We are going down the Snake between Hoback and Alpine and I'm curious if I should run a paddle raft instead. I've canoed rivers so I understand the "rudder down" concept, but haven't had anybody paddle in front of me before. This stretch seems like the perfect learning ground. Any tips for learning how to run a paddle raft? I will be in a 14 foot self bailer instead of my 18 foot cat. I have the capability of running as either an oar rig or with paddles.


I have paddle boated for 22 years and am not sure what a rudder down concept is. 

Dress warm. Go big. When in doubt scream "all forward hard" and hold on.


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## pilom (Dec 28, 2010)

As long as you will not be the only one paddling, guiding a paddle raft isn't that hard. If you sit on the right, use prying rudder strokes to point more right, and paddle with your abs to go more left (just like a canoe only your rudder strokes can use the raft as a fulcrum point which is bad form in canoeing).

If you need big adjustments, just tell your crew what you need with a "Left back" or "Right back" command.

Unlike an oar-rig, paddle rafts very rarely back ferry. Point where you want to go and use your crew to power through things.

As for R1ing a raft, it is certainly doable but usually takes a few hours of practice to be bad at it and a season to be able to do it reasonably so good luck.


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## johnovice (Jul 17, 2009)

Welcome to ElevationImaging.com - Eye Select Online Studio

I don't think there are many rafts flipping at these flows, but you can see for yourself how folks are doing at "Big Kahuna" (probably the most likely trouble spot right now) at the above photo site. You might select "private" to see how the non-professional paddle rafts are doing. There still seems to be some possible ducky carnage (select "Snake River Kayak and Canoe" to see the commercial duckies).


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## tanderson (Mar 26, 2010)

Great! Thanks for the beta, photos and advice. I really enjoy this website for the great info that can be thankfully obtained. Cheers to you guys


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## nervouswater (Jun 3, 2008)

Not sure what the "rudder down" concept is, but you definitely want to learn how to J-stroke if you are going to guide with a paddle assist setup. I have done hundreds of trips in a paddle assist set up and recently started running an oar rig. The oar rig is significantly easier, particularly if the water is remotely technical, but paddle assist is a lot of fun.


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## cataraftgirl (Jun 5, 2009)

I have paddle captained a couple times. What I found was that I needed to be clear, concise, loud, but still calm. Screaming at folks was counterproductive. Remember that your paddlers are your power, may sure they are working with you and not against you. Balance the power in your boat, practice a few spin moves before you get to the rapids, and have fun. Don't forget a safety talk also.
KJ


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## johnovice (Jul 17, 2009)

Get your crew to paddle in unison; put good listeners/doers up front on both sides -- they will be in unison and folks behind them can (may?) follow.


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## Jensjustduckie (Jun 29, 2007)

I prefer to crack a bullwhip and yell "MUSH!!! You lazy freaks or we're all going to die!"


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## teletoes (Apr 16, 2005)

Be consistent in you commands. I've gotten it down to six: "forward", "back", "left back, right forward", "stop", "hang on!" and "high side!". You don't need to bother with "right back" because you're in the perfect position to do this by yourself. 

Don't use the word "go" because it sounds too much like "no".

When in doubt, T up and yell "Forward! Hard and together!"


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## stuntmansteve (Apr 28, 2008)

teletoes said:


> Be consistent in you commands. I've gotten it down to six: "forward", "back", "left back, right forward", "stop", "hang on!" and "high side!". You don't need to bother with "right back" because you're in the perfect position to do this by yourself.
> 
> Don't use the word "go" because it sounds too much like "no".
> 
> When in doubt, T up and yell "Forward! Hard and together!"


Actually, "Lunchcounter" is the rapid you should beware of the most in Alpine Canyon, particularly since you'll probably have an audience to witness any screwups you may make. Easy to scout from the road though. Its below Big Kahuna if my memory serves. Should be at a good level this late in the summer. Main thing with paddleboats is getting the crew to all work together and not having some know-it-all try to guide from the front. I usually put the most experienced paddler on the front right and have them set the cadence for the others to follow. Go over a few basic strokes, i.e., forward, draw (if you know how to do it, otherwise forget it), and back strokes, right after launching so they got an idea of what to do before having to make any serious maneuvers.

Sounds fun, wish I could make this run again....


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## studytime (Oct 4, 2010)

DoubleYouEss said:


> run it as a stern mount paddle assisted rig, or just a paddle assisted oar boat.


 
This. Never leave you oars!!!


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## montuckyhuck (Mar 14, 2010)

stuntmansteve said:


> Actually, "Lunchcounter" is the rapid you should beware of the most in Alpine Canyon, particularly since you'll probably have an audience to witness any screwups you may make. Easy to scout from the road though. Its below Big Kahuna if my memory serves. Should be at a good level this late in the summer. Main thing with paddleboats is getting the crew to all work together and not having some know-it-all try to guide from the front. I usually put the most experienced paddler on the front right and have them set the cadence for the others to follow. Go over a few basic strokes, i.e., forward, draw (if you know how to do it, otherwise forget it), and back strokes, right after launching so they got an idea of what to do before having to make any serious maneuvers.
> 
> Sounds fun, wish I could make this run again....


Actually kahuna is bigger at low flows, but yeah its above lunch countet.


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## Kendi (May 15, 2009)

I like to stick with the basic commands (all forward, all back, right back, left back, stop, highside). Saying something like "left turn" or "let it ride" gets confusing (I have worked with these people and they drive me nuts). Frankly if you can get your paddlers to follow commands well- you probably won't have to do much if you don't want to. That being said- if they are out of shape they aren't gonna want to paddle all the time. Give them some rest first before screaming ALL FORWARD OR WE'RE GONNA DIE!


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## g.soutiere (Jul 7, 2009)

Kendi said:


> I like to stick with the basic commands (all forward, all back, right back, left back, stop, highside). Saying something like "left turn" or "let it ride" gets confusing (I have worked with these people and they drive me nuts). Frankly if you can get your paddlers to follow commands well- you probably won't have to do much if you don't want to. That being said- if they are out of shape they aren't gonna want to paddle all the time. Give them some rest first before screaming ALL FORWARD OR WE'RE GONNA DIE!


I agree when you just need some forward strokes( a small move) I use forward one( forward two if the crew isn't strong paddlers) all forward for punching holes. And remind them to stop when you say stop( even if they are at two when you call forward four).


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## johnovice (Jul 17, 2009)

OP: If you want to scout Kahuna before you put it, there is a little parking lot with a sign/label (and short trail to overlook) -- very easy. I'm not sure if you can see the river right sneak from there -- not suggesting you need to sneak! Not sure if you have run that section, but Kahuna is a few hundred yards after you leave the gauging strait -- hard to miss the strait -- it's strait! (and there is a cable over it). After the strait, the river narrows into "blind canyon." Because Kahuna is caused by a ledge, you don't really see its size until right before you drop -- you can see white from a hundred yards or so out, but from there it could appear to be very tame -- certainly not the "Big Kahuna!". (I know you have looked at the recent photos, so you can judge for yourself if you want to run the meat -- I avoided the meat last night, but I was in a ducky and didn't really want to swim after the sun was down.) Lunch Counter is another hundred yards down and is fairly tame now -- just follow the tongue.


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## laterwagged (Sep 29, 2011)

johnovice said:


> Get your crew to paddle in unison; put good listeners/doers up front on both sides -- they will be in unison and folks behind them can (may?) follow.


Paddle bot training is important.


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## GoodTimes (Mar 9, 2006)

Forward, Back, STOP....that's about it...that's all I use anyway.

If they didn't paddle hard enough to miss the rock...they deserve to swim. No "high-side" from me!!!


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## brmidjones (Feb 27, 2009)

point and shoot


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## ranchman44 (Apr 16, 2009)

A good raft guide can actually run that section with almost no help from the paddlers. I had a company out there many years a go and the only tough times were at high water.
Regular flows are a snap. Is the 3 oar ordeal still there ?? I ran that section @32000 in an open canoe and the news paper took pic's and post that now it was safe to run the river . That was after a couple of people drowned and I was their answer to kick off the raft season. The haun bros and holmes were the big names on the [email protected] time 
Any way the advice you have been given is excellent just have a good time and enjoy the river


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## qh2150 (Aug 8, 2012)

Best advice I got, "Turn more than you think, turn sooner than you think." Pretty much sums it up. Also have them focus on paddling together. Front two paddle together, everyone behind them paddles with the person in front of them.

Make sure your guests follow your exact commands and avoid trying to steer or guess what you're trying to do. Commands are ALL forward, LEFT back, RIGHT back, ALL back, easy strokes, take a break. Saying three forward or four forward or one forward also helps for some reason.

The reason I capitalized the beginning of each command is it allows the guests to immediately know if the command concerns them, ex: If they hear Back LEFT, they have to wait until you say LEFT as the second word to decide "okay, I'm on the left side, this is a command for me, now what was it again? Oh yeah, paddle backwards." If you say LEFT back, they know, okay, "left side, this is me, backwards!"

If the riders are inexperienced, make sure you review safety too. Feat up!


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## brendodendo (Jul 18, 2004)

Just go for the paddle boat. Call your commands like you mean them. Make sure they understand that their paddle goes to the hip with the blade out of the water when you say stop, chill or relax. Lilly dippers with their own agenda will mess up "your" line. Take 50% as many spare paddles (or more) as you have paddlers. Try to learn to guide from the stern, and from both sides. It really helps when things go wrong and you inevitably have to shift positions. Not to mention helps both arms get a work out.


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## colorado_steve (May 1, 2011)

plan ahead on paddle rafts, you wont be as maneuverable as you would on your cat


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## carvedog (May 11, 2005)

brendodendo said:


> Just go for the paddle boat. Call your commands like you mean them. Make sure they understand that their paddle goes to the hip with the blade out of the water when you say stop, chill or relax. Lilly dippers with their own agenda will mess up "your" line. Take 50% as many spare paddles (or more) as you have paddlers. Try to learn to guide from the stern, and from both sides. It really helps when things go wrong and you inevitably have to shift positions. Not to mention helps both arms get a work out.



Yer doing it wrong. Tell your paddlers to hold onto to their paddle. If they swim back to the boat without their paddle just keep on swimming - the shore is over there. 50%? Really? Your paddle boat friends must suck. 

Are you one of those guys who whips the paddle over his head from one side of the boat to the other? 700 to 800 days in a paddle boat and I have never had to "inevitably shift positions." 

It is best to paddle boat guide from the stern but I have made a game of guiding from the bow too. That did usually involve cute girls somewhere near the front of the boat. And before marriage. 

Different strokes I suppose.


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## ranchman44 (Apr 16, 2009)

One of the basic rules everyone forgot is go down river ! Never plan your trip to paddle up stream LOL


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## peterB (Nov 21, 2003)

Two things that will get a wow from your paddlers. 

to make a Left turn spin 270 to the Right, Think zoolander
Call out number of strokes "2 forward strokes please" Keeps them alert. Remember Rafters can't count higher than four.


I assume that Brendo means to learn to guide on both sides. Balances your muscle structure and some rapids work better from left or right. Tunnel Chute on the Middle American is a classic example of a lefty rapid. You can do it on the right but you can't see very well and it is hard to control the bump on the outside of the turn.


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## brendodendo (Jul 18, 2004)

carvedog said:


> Yer doing it wrong. Tell your paddlers to hold onto to their paddle. If they swim back to the boat without their paddle just keep on swimming - the shore is over there. 50%? Really? Your paddle boat friends must suck.
> 
> Are you one of those guys who whips the paddle over his head from one side of the boat to the other? 700 to 800 days in a paddle boat and I have never had to "inevitably shift positions."
> 
> ...


CD, You must be the one doing it wrong, but you prob only paddle raft class 1 and 2. Different strokes. Rather have more than enough paddles to get down the river. And as per side, I mean in an R2 / R4 / R6 situation guiding from the right of the boat and the left of the boat. R3 / R5 would be from the stern. Not usually one to call BS on a guy I know has lots of river days, but you sound like an A$$ Hat. But seriously you have never had to highside a boat and ended up on the other side of the boat. This is the same BS reason I usually lurk on the board now. F-it What the hell do I know, I hate calling paddle commands and would prefer to just point the boat down river.


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## carvedog (May 11, 2005)

brendodendo said:


> CD, You must be the one doing it wrong, but you prob only paddle raft class 1 and 2. Different strokes. Rather have more than enough paddles to get down the river. And as per side, I mean in an R2 / R4 / R6 situation guiding from the right of the boat and the left of the boat. R3 / R5 would be from the stern. Not usually one to call BS on a guy I know has lots of river days, but you sound like an A$$ Hat. But seriously you have never had to highside a boat and ended up on the other side of the boat. This is the same BS reason I usually lurk on the board now. F-it What the hell do I know, I hate calling paddle commands and would prefer to just point the boat down river.


The Middle Fork, Payettes, Murtaugh, Selway and Lochsa are all pretty much class 2 so I guess you are right. 

Nice nastygram in the PMs too. I didn't know you cared. 

Now who's being the asshat? 

It was mainly a joke but gators gotta gate. 

I have never heard of taking more than one or two paddles as spares. 

Peace brother. Try dropping the caffeine.


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## qh2150 (Aug 8, 2012)

brendodendo said:


> CD, You must be the one doing it wrong, but you prob only paddle raft class 1 and 2. Different strokes. Rather have more than enough paddles to get down the river. And as per side, I mean in an R2 / R4 / R6 situation guiding from the right of the boat and the left of the boat. R3 / R5 would be from the stern. Not usually one to call BS on a guy I know has lots of river days, but you sound like an A$$ Hat. But seriously you have never had to highside a boat and ended up on the other side of the boat. This is the same BS reason I usually lurk on the board now. F-it What the hell do I know, I hate calling paddle commands and would prefer to just point the boat down river.


I always sit stern regardless of configuration, but what do I know.


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## Kendi (May 15, 2009)

Awwww- I feel the love flowing. Must be low water time.


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