# Yellowstone Controversy



## jomama (Aug 7, 2006)

Hey to all just figured i would post a link to let you know about the most recent kayaker bust in yellowstone national park. It is an issue many of us would like to draw light too. Maybe in the near future some who has a more logical way of approach can help to change the laws. AWA was a major failure in their atempt and didn't help the cause in any way.

Check it out:
EGCREEKIN: Yellowstone National Problem

Comments appreciated.


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## WyoPadlr1 (May 5, 2005)

*Felon boaters association.*

Sad to see it has come to this, a $335 charge for NOT going boating, combined with ejection from the park?????? Bummer. Glad I was able to get two undetected runs in there before things got so militant. Even my friends who got caught early on (they know who they are ), only ended up paying around $220 plus being banned from park for a year. $5,000????? Holy shit. Of course, those guys making fun of the rangers in the Montana Surf guidebook didn't help the cause, either. Pissing off the 'pine pigs' and inviting their constant vigilance and wrath is no way to fly under the radar.


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## Chip (Apr 7, 2007)

*Inviting abuse. . .*

I'll say that I don't mind the Park being a kayak (and cat and raft) free zone. If boating was legal, the rescue costs alone would be pretty steep, not to mention the traffic/parking jams at put-ins, outfitter overcrowding (can you imagine the lust for profits?), etc. 

Not being a law-and-order type, I get pissed at the private-propertarian shitheads who try to keep boaters off so many other streams (like the North Platte) with their obnoxious signs, wire fences across channels, and other forms of harrassment. 

The Park belongs to all of us, and boaters are free to press a case for legal access. But until the decision goes that way, I respect the present regs. Poach if you wish, but suffer the penalty without whining.


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## dvanhouten (Dec 29, 2003)

Sorry to hear they got busted, at least they received minimal consequences. A couple years ago, I was driving in the west entrance, and the gate ranger reminded me I needed 'permits' on my boats if I intended to float. I don't think the ranger knew what kind of use my boats were intended for (I was only driving thorugh the park, not going there to boat). Yellowstone has lots of great WW, and its BS that it is all illegal.


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## mania (Oct 21, 2003)

Chip said:


> the rescue costs alone would be pretty steep, not to mention the traffic/parking jams at put-ins, outfitter overcrowding (can you imagine the lust for profits?), etc.


chip thats some of the weakest ass shit I have ever heard (from a boater). no one said it would be open commercially. no one said they want it to be unlimited. and you know maybe we should close the grand canyon to boating cause rescue costs are pretty high?!

I float and I vote. Free Yellowstone!


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## Snowhere (Feb 21, 2008)

The ban came out of the forties or fifties and was aimed at keeping fishermen from harassing wildlife. I know some runs that were poached in the early 90's. With out naming any names of rivers or of participants, all I can say is they were sweet! They were all run under moonlight after scouting during the day. The participants kayaked on Yellowstone lake to put the rangers at ease about where the boats were to be used. Stuff like this you have to fly under the radar and it was easier to get away with it years ago. Nowadays the rangers probably have a APP out on any kayak carrying vehicle that goes through the gate.


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## GoodTimes (Mar 9, 2006)

*AW*

I certainly don't know the details of the AW proceedings and how that all went down....sounds like they may have been too aggressive in their proposal??? BUT....AW is our voice with issues like this. The organization is FULL of very respectable and caring people that have our (boaters, etc.) best interest at heart. I'm sure with a revised plan a better proposal can be made?

I don't understand it.....we, as boaters, are one of the LEAST impactful recreationists. I'm NOT saying it should be open to commercial use....matter of fact I don't believe it should be at all (because it'll create access issues, permits, disrespectful and unappreciative custies, etc...and it's already too commercialized). But for the average joe kayaker/rafter, I don't understand why stringent stewardship practices couldn't be put in place so we can enjoy the wilderness Yellowstone has to offer. I guarantee we'd leave MUCH less of a footprint than already allowed recreational activites.

Poaching it might not be the best idea. Although I support your passion to git er' done.....it's not going to help with the fight to de-regulate ....the NPS will just see boaters as disrespectful, law-breaking hoodlems that don't deserve to enjoy it.

I say FREE YELLOWSTONE!! And work with AW to propose a reasonable access solution....I believe in em.


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## caspermike (Mar 9, 2007)

kayakers should be allowed access for at least 30 to 45 days a year for recreational use. no commercialized trips, pack in pack out, and a permit should till be needed. i think that would help with all the problems the park is talking about. we could get highwater so when it runs low nothing will be effected.
the permit would help with regulation in the park between kayakers and nature and what not. grizzley safe skills need to be used at all times and no littering or destroying land or stream beds would be key.

no m-gorge shenanigans with all the littering

free Yellowstone!


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## WyoPadlr1 (May 5, 2005)

*Personal responsibilty vs. park liability is the MAIN issue.*



GoodTimes said:


> I certainly don't know the details of the AW proceedings and how that all went down....sounds like they may have been too aggressive in their proposal??? BUT....AW is our voice with issues like this. The organization is FULL of very respectable and caring people that have our (boaters, etc.) best interest at heart. I'm sure with a revised plan a better proposal can be made?
> 
> I don't understand it.....we, as boaters, are one of the LEAST impactful recreationists. I'm NOT saying it should be open to commercial use.....


To my knowledge, AW was not overly zealous in their approach. If anything, far from it. And no one has EVER advocated commercial use. A concerted effort has been made for years by local boaters to just have the penalties reduced to a $25 'misdemeanor' charge and no citations. That would amount to a $25 'fee' to the park, as well as a form of notification that there are a group of boaters in the Yellowstone canyon. 
The 'problem,' according to park officials willing to speak off the record, is liability, plain and simple. National parks that allow climbing/mountaineering have faced staggering costs to maintain climbing rangers who are in charge of rescue, as well as the attendant equipment. Yellowstone wants to do everything in its power to prevent ever needing to fund and staff 'river/canyon' specific rescue employees. That, combined with their weak argument that kayaking/canoeing is not a 'traditional' mode of travel, has been sufficient to block any and all efforts to legititmize boating in the park, period. It has nothing to do with preventing fishermen from being in the backcountry, or clueless tourists on guided horseback trips, either. On both of my journeys in there, we saw a few fishermen, as well as ample evidence of fisherman impact (foot trails along the best fishing water), and rampant evidence of too-large horsepacking trains (15-20 piles of horseshit in concentrated zones on trails close to the river, gum wrappers, candy bar wrappers, film wrappers, etc), and a stench of horse piss and shit that was often overwhelming. Talk about negative impact in the backcountry/wilderness area of the park...... absurd. 
The park's big objections come from liability/responsibility and the high visibility of the best access points. Their argument is that gapers would see a team of kayakers entering the river at Tower or some other place, and run back to their RV's and grab inner tubes and start mindlessly floating to their deaths. Law of natural selection, I say, but they don't see it that way. Until the park can be presented with a foolproof workable system that allows qualified paddlers to access the river sections they want, and take complete responsibility for their own safety and extrication, without encouraging unqualified paddlers and even non-boaters to blindly follow their lead, it will remain illegal to kayak the park's rivers.


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## GoodTimes (Mar 9, 2006)

Frustrating.....such a "nanny" state of circumstances. I understand what you're saying....and I could certainly see some dumbass grabbing his innertube and jumping in after a few boaters.

Anyone that sues because THEY made a dumbass decision expecting someone ELSE to "protect" them is retarded. What the hell happened to natural selection anyway????? Thank GOD we have the government to protect us.

Inherent danger.....plain and simple.... I don't expect someone to come rescue my ass if I get in trouble. 

Qualify boaters. Don't they require a permit of sorts for hiking? You have to take a wilderness/camping/survival course or something? Why can't it be that way for boaters? I mean, obviously a "test" of sorts and permitting would weed out the unexperienced. However, there's still gonna be some dumbass that "doesn't know about the regulations" that will inevitably grab his innertube.

Foolproof.....probably unlikely, as with anything. I'd sure like to hope though!!


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## Chip (Apr 7, 2007)

*private boaters trampled*

Having watched the antics of the chamber-of-commerce crowd in Cody, West Yellowstone, Jackson, and other gateway towns, and seen how they strongarm the congressional delegations to get their way, I'd say that the belief we might get non-commercial boat use without opening the gates to commercial trips is pure moonshine. 

Second, most recreation user groups have large donors and board members from the outdoor gear and tourist industries. Thus, any bid these groups make for "public" access should be viewed with a healthy skepticism. 

I don't hate commercial guide and outfitting services: a lot of friends earn their living that way. But I'd also hate to see the Parks go the way of the Snake River Canyon.


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## caspermike (Mar 9, 2007)

somebody needs to volunteer to be the parks deplomatic liason between boaters and rangers/government so we can get some shit going.

we need to change the rules from the inside. (kind of like china buying us out from the inside and not having to shoot a bullet to own our country.)


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## progers (Jan 27, 2004)

It sucks you guys got caught, but relatively speeking they could have made a bigger example out of you guys. I love protesting and proudly voicing my opinions as part of the YLA, I also find the fact that it's illegal all that much better.

There's just something about being in there knowing that only a few people on this earth have ever been lucky enough to enjoy such a mythical place. The thrill of a sleepless night, shivering as you dust ice off your freezing cold gear, and silently slipping your boat into the water as the first hint of light graces such a great place is a once in a lifetime experience. The nervous excitement thats been built up from all the lore and tales of helicopter chases, and learning about bits and pieces from an almost underground network of bad-boy poachers and real-deal boaters from the ages of fifty to fifteen year olds makes it that much better. 

I'm all about trying to work cooperatively with the park, but do we really want permits, commercial use, and all the other regulations that would be necassary to allow boating in the park. In my opinion it's far more fun to silently slip into such a magical place. 

Just do one very important thing, don't forget the Camo war paint! YLA!


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## caspermike (Mar 9, 2007)

Whats really lame is swimming, mountain biking hiking are allowed practically anywhere. sounds like some segregation


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## WyoPadlr1 (May 5, 2005)

Chip said:


> Having watched the antics of the chamber-of-commerce crowd in Cody, West Yellowstone, Jackson, and other gateway towns, and seen how they strongarm the congressional delegations to get their way, I'd say that the belief we might get non-commercial boat use without opening the gates to commercial trips is pure moonshine.
> .............
> I don't hate commercial guide and outfitting services: a lot of friends earn their living that way. But I'd also hate to see the Parks go the way of the Snake River Canyon.


Again, no one in the paddling community who has actively lobbied for kayaking access in Yellowstone has also included the idea of commercial river operations. Besides, the runs we want to do are not real conducive to running hordes of gapers in rafts. They are substantially more difficult than the upper Flathead that is getting commercially run in Glacier. 

It would be fantastic just to be able to run the Yellowstone from 7-mile hole to Gardiner, and the "puckered ass" section of the Lamar, without getting hassled or busted. No commercial company could justify that level of exposure to risk/liability and expect to turn a profit. Besides, people would die, probably on a regular basis.


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## progers (Jan 27, 2004)

It most likely is true that folks trying to legalize boating aren't lobbying for commercial use. I find it sometimes hard to explain when people ask "why is it illegal for you guys to boat?" Part of the typical explaination is that, yes, if they allowed us to bomb the Black Canyon, so many other users from raft companies, fly fishing outfitters, and other recreational business such as sit-on-top and canoe rental shops would be all over the park service to point out the fact they've allowed a new form of recreation to occur, and they want in on it to.


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## mjpowhound (May 5, 2006)

Isn't boating legal in Teton NP? So theoretically doesn't the park have a river rescue staff nearby, which would have a relatively low marginal cost to extend up the road to Yellowstone, which could be offset by permit fees? Is commercial boating legal in Teton?


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## freexbiker (Jul 18, 2005)

I believe you can only float the south fork of the snake in teton...not sure though


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## WyoPadlr1 (May 5, 2005)

mjpowhound said:


> Isn't boating legal in Teton NP? So theoretically doesn't the park have a river rescue staff nearby, which would have a relatively low marginal cost to extend up the road to Yellowstone, which could be offset by permit fees? Is commercial boating legal in Teton?


Ya might want to check your geography a little bit there. Also, the outfitters on the Snake in GTNP are primarily self-sufficient, with little to no help expected and seldom received from park officials for this mostly Class II section of river. The differences in training, equipment, cost, access would be monumental.

Are there rescue personnel for the Black Canyon Gunnison? It's in a national monument, and boating is allowed there. I never expected an official backup on that run.


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## yetigonecrazy (May 23, 2005)

responders to the black canyon of the gunny would most likely be comprised of the Western State College Mtn Rescue Team, and authorites from Gunnison and Montrose counties. But our local response teams train religously and respond to real emergencies often, so they are on top of their game. i couldnt say whether or not the responders from the yellowstone area would be better, worse, or the same, as I dont live there!


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## CanyonEJ (Jul 28, 2008)

caspermike said:


> Whats really lame is swimming, mountain biking hiking are allowed practically anywhere. sounds like some segregation


Hiking and swimming maybe... mountain biking, not at all. No wilderness area and no National Parks allow mountain biking. Parks only allow mountain bikes to go on maintained roads, hence things like the White Rim in Canyonlands. On BLM land and Forest Service land, you're right, it's pretty much unlimited.


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## WyoPadlr1 (May 5, 2005)

yetigonecrazy said:


> responders to the black canyon of the gunny would most likely be comprised of the Western State College Mtn Rescue Team, and authorites from Gunnison and Montrose counties. But our local response teams train religously and respond to real emergencies often, so they are on top of their game. i couldnt say whether or not the responders from the yellowstone area would be better, worse, or the same, as I dont live there!


Therein lies the problem: the rescue teams that would be readily available would be primarily climbing rangers with little or no river rescue experience, and the park currently is looking to reduce its rescue liability rather than expand it. There is currently no team in either park specifically trained to handle river mishaps that would most likely occur at the level encountered on the most desirable runs. To my knowledge, even in a town like Cody, which is the closest larger community to the Box and the main Yellowstone, there are few people with the skills that would be required to get in there and then have the V+ river rescue skills as well. We have always known we were on our own.


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## benpetri (Jul 2, 2004)

Sorry about your legal misfortunes. Just don't get caught next time !

This probably has more to do with bureaucratic resistance to evolution as it does rescue teams. They say that the only thing that changes slower than academia is the Catholic Church. One could probably say the same thing about the National Park Service. The only way they change is when all their old fogies retire and the next generation is hopefully a little more open-minded. (note, same process by which the Catholic Church and academia changes :mrgreen

This is probably one reason the park service is all over the map when it comes to river running access, regulations, and fees, independent of whitewater difficulty or remoteness. 

Observe:

Black Canyon of the Gunnison National Park - unlimited access, $15/vehicle or park pass, minimal regulation, class V, very remote)
Canyonlands National Park - first-come first-serve access, $30/trip, moderate regulation, class I or III-IV, remote
Dinosaur National Monument - lottery access, $200/trip, heavy regulation, class III, remote
Gauley River National Recreation Area - unlimited access, no fee, unregulated, class IV, not at all remote
Grand Canyon National Park - lottery access, $100/person, heavy regulation, class IV, not as remote as it should be 
Great Falls Park - unlimited access (unless local law enforcement decides it's unsafe :-?), $5/vehicle or park pass, class V or III, in the middle of a city
New River Gorge National River - unlimited access, no fee, unregulated, class III, not at all remote
Yellowstone National Park - illegal access, fee: $5000 and 6 months in the clink with a roomie named Bubba :twisted:, class I-VI, very very very remote)


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## Matty (May 13, 2004)

GoodTimes said:


> Qualify boaters. Don't they require a permit of sorts for hiking? You have to take a wilderness/camping/survival course or something? Why can't it be that way for boaters? I mean, obviously a "test" of sorts and permitting would weed out the unexperienced.
> 
> 
> I like how you're thinking, but what would the consequences be from a liability standpoint if one of the "qualified by the NPS" boaters got hurt.
> ...


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## CanyonEJ (Jul 28, 2008)

Matty said:


> I like how you're thinking, but what would the consequences be from a liability standpoint if one of the "qualified by the NPS" boaters got hurt.


I was thinking the same thing. I think it'd put the liability on the NPS and would make it easier for people to sue when they got hurt. 

I personally think the testing thing is BS. Someone could look really good on paper, but not actually be all that good. Also, what happened to the fundamental sense of exploration. It'd suck to be told "sorry son, you didn't pass the test. So you can't head out and explore wild places." One of our long held, and rapidly diminishing rights as people, is to explore at our own free will.


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## Snowhere (Feb 21, 2008)

Even if the Teton's had a whitewater rescue group up for the task, they would be too far away. It can easily take a couple of hours to get from the Jackson area to the northern parts of the park. 

To really get something to change, it would have to come from some senator, with influence, to pressure the NPS to open up Yellowstone to boating. As cash strapped as they are, it would be hard to get them to change unless money was part of the picture. I just do not see how even charging us a fee to boat (permit) would be enough.

Vetting of boaters could be done. It is the same thing when you want to climb some notable peaks. You have to submit to the authorities your climbing experience and your partners experience. You can be questioned on your experience and if the questioner knows about the peaks/runs, they can usually figure out if you are telling the truth or not. Then a detailed climbing route and climbing plan has to be submitted, proving you have, at least, researched what you are getting into. Only then can you qualify for a permit. The only detail is they expect some people to die when climbing, so the risk is considered well known and expected.

Just like the have signs and flyers telling you to not get too close to Bison, still some people get impaled by them. You just can not protect people from their own stupidity, all of the time.


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## yetigonecrazy (May 23, 2005)

WyoPadlr1 said:


> Therein lies the problem: the rescue teams that would be readily available would be primarily climbing rangers with little or no river rescue experience, and the park currently is looking to reduce its rescue liability rather than expand it. There is currently no team in either park specifically trained to handle river mishaps that would most likely occur at the level encountered on the most desirable runs. To my knowledge, even in a town like Cody, which is the closest larger community to the Box and the main Yellowstone, there are few people with the skills that would be required to get in there and then have the V+ river rescue skills as well. We have always known we were on our own.


the gunnison fire department has a dedicated swiftwater response team. they practice quite a bit; i see them on the river a fair amount.

the WSC Mtn Rescue, while not a dedicated SWR team, has loads of experience in the situation. Most of the members are expert boaters and have lots of swr experience.

The only problem with either of them is they are 45 minutes to an hour minimum from the canyon, which i imagine would be the problem at yellowstone: lack of access, not a lack of properly equipped or trained personnel.

its a lot easiert to rescue a lost hiker or an errant fisherman than it is to haul somebody out of a thousand foot deep canyon. thats not a problem confined to just yellowstone, its ultimately a problem everywhere.


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## Caspian (Oct 14, 2003)

Great Falls NP is not all-access -- unless it changed recently, you have to be done with your run by 9am or put-in after 7pm so the gapers don't monkey-see, monkey-do (just for the falls, not the class III below). It's a gentleman's agreement with the NPS to avoid real regulation.


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## BrianK (Feb 3, 2005)

Its not impossible to change the parks stance though. Sequoia National Park, recently lifted their ban on boating in the park. And there is some legit whitewater in there. 

Im not sure how the process went, but I think this would be a great place to start. Thanks to the work of someone the sections of the Kaweah in the park went from poach only to regularly run.


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## mania (Oct 21, 2003)

Matty said:


> Qualify boaters. Don't they require a permit of sorts for hiking? You have to take a wilderness/camping/survival course or something? Why can't it be that way for boaters? I mean, obviously a "test" of sorts and permitting would weed out the unexperienced.


No no, you can't qualify anyone or that opens up liability. You just need to warn and inform.

We kayaked Zion narrows in Zion NP this year. Think about it - no way in there when its running except kayak. no helo, no hikers, no climbers. Rangers said its 3 days til you can be rescued don't do anything stupid have fun. thats the way it should be. know the risks and own up to them. why are SOME OF YOU into the babysitting all the sudden?


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## Droboat (May 12, 2008)

*Darwin Thwarted*

"Qualify boaters. Don't they require a permit of sorts for hiking? You have to take a wilderness/camping/survival course or something? Why can't it be that way for boaters? I mean, obviously a "test" of sorts and permitting would weed out the unexperienced."

Hunter safety courses are required in most states before you can get certain hunting licenses.


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## mania (Oct 21, 2003)

Droboat said:


> Hunter safety courses are required in most states before you can get certain hunting licenses.


ah yes well I see you have your mountainbuzz badge go right ahead sir!

there is not and should not be a license to kayak! kayaking/rafting/tubing/swimming is not a crime!


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## Chip (Apr 7, 2007)

*Grand Canyon?*

The GC lottery is only for _private_ boaters (a minority of the user days). 

The commercial river-bus lines hold the upper hand, and for the most part run huge motor rigs crowded with people who don't boat, won't boat, and couldn't be bothered to boat on their own. The big outfitters also got a f-ing _heliport_ built in the depths of the canyon, so they can shove their dudes through in five days and fly them out. Disgusting, but way profitable. 

The Grand Canyon is a good example of how the Pork Service holds up against the profiteers: not hardly at all. 

So— is the Grand Canyon liberated? Free?

Yeah, right.


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## mania (Oct 21, 2003)

Here is how to do it right.

first you need one of these. put the kayaks inside along with a 50 caliber machine gun.










If the rangers stop you just say the kayaks were confiscated from some hippie poachers and the gun is for shooting cars with obama stickers. This should get them off your back.

Now get your crew together.










The guy in the upper left is your probe. The chick is your shuttle bunny. Mr T is there to handle any rangers who don't buy your story (I think I've seen him on this forum).

Finally use Mr T to kick ass around here.










I pity the fool who wont let us paddle on public lands!


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## craporadon (Feb 27, 2006)

*YLA for life*

National Parks should be treated as wilderness, that is the only way to manage a national park.

There is so much good whitewater in YNP that it is crime you cannot kayak. Almost all other National Park allows kayaking, and ALL wilderness areas allow it. Yosemite bans just some rivers and other than that all are legal that I know of Zion, Grand Canyon, Teton. In Teton, which is connected to YNP it is not just the S. Fork, you can get a permit to kayak ANY river in Teton. 

The Rescue excuse is a bunch of crap. As someone said rescue from the Zion Narrows during flows is much more difficult than on the Black Canyon.

Poaching the Black Canyon is definitely fun. It is a great feeling to slip into the water in the dark and proceed to crack open the forbidden fruit and chow down. 20 good rapids, 12 or so class V's, 18 miles, loads of wildlife and solitude.

How could wading in the channel and catching a fish reeling it in, ripping the hook out and releasing it be less impact than floating on the surface? As someone said the rule was born in the 50's to discourage drift boat fishing. Kayaking really is a very low impact activity and is allowed in ALL wilderness areas.

Cave Falls is barely even in the park. Plus it is in an ad with a kayaker running it for Sperry shoes in Paddler magazine.

AW screwed up bad by wanting to allow boating on the Lamar River, which is such a joke I cant stand it. That is like the serenghetti of Yellowstone with thousands of Buffalo, Elk and Wolves and hundreds of tourists watching it. To have a bright colored kayak float through there would be a crime. That is where AW's proposal went wrong. They should have just asked for The Black Canyon, Falls River and the Fireholes before 8 AM. Whoever wrote the AW proposal probably never even went to the park, and wrote the request on the east coast. They probably ran Gorilla and figured they would write it up that night. You would never want kayakers in the Lamar Valley. 

I cant believe the new generation has'nt fired up Collander Falls yet, the 70'er in the pic. When that goes it will be a great day for the YLA.]

The park service will read these posts and use them against kayakers, that is their standard way of operating.

Montana Surf summed it up pretty good:
"The parks stance on this issue is firm and unchanging, so in respect to the park we are left with only one alternative, Poach That Shit."


YLA for life


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## Canada (Oct 24, 2006)

Sign a disclaimer saying no government rescue will take place.

Have a team of local boaters on a phone tree to help if necessary.

Have a permit to access and strict liability if you tear anything up.

If we recieved a call that someone was missing on a local river, we would all leave our jobs and go be a part of fiinding them. Frankly, as to a george rescue, I'd rather have a group of class IV and V boaters boaters with ropes and a some z drag than any formal rescue team.

Have permits of $35 per day that is put in a pool to cover damages caused by any boaters.


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## cayo 2 (Apr 20, 2007)

Like Canada said,make a permitted boater sign a waiver ,have volunteer safety boaters somewhat available.Because it is permitted they know who did what when if someones causes a problem.If they did open it up I'd like to see some intermediate and advanced runs,not just hair.I suppose they would then need a easy run too, that would probably encourage tubers and k-mart rafters though.

If I saw Mr. T sportin' that rig I'd have to bomb him with taters just like we used to do his Cady when he was a bouncer at Fitzwilly's.We were cooks and dish dogs at the restaraunt on the other side of the lot he parked a perfect distance for tater throwing,had no idea who the hell Mr.T was ,glad we didn't find out the hard way.


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## DurangoSteve (Jun 2, 2006)

F**kin' NPS. They're just too lazy to want to try something "new."

Years ago I climbed the NW Face of Half Dome in Yosemite. The park has thousands of climbing routes and hosts thousands of climbers from across the globe. They have climbing rangers. They have a system of sorts.

Anyhow, we registered to climb Half Dome, gave 'em our expected completion date... and foolishly I gave them my parents' phone number as an emergency contact. Long story short: we were slow hauling our crap through the chimneys and such and were a day late getting back down to the valley. When we "checked out" with the rangers, they casually mentioned that they had called my Mom to let her know we were late. They were too f**kin' lazy to go out to the meadow outside their office to use the telescope they had trained on Half Dome to see if we were splattered or just slow. Meanwhile, my Mom is freaking out because of the "heads up" call.

Needless to say, I'm no big fan of the NPS. It's an underfunded, lumbering bureaucracy of folks who don't like to work much.


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## caspermike (Mar 9, 2007)

anybody notice how the lady in charge of our National Parks service is a naturalized citizen from England?

America is just a little fucked up, just a little


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## COLDFEAR (Apr 20, 2004)

Lovin the A-Team idea....

Since I live here in Cody and have a local perspective I will chime in, 

My number one rule when boating or climbing in this area is you are on your own. Dont plan on a rescue or someone to come and get you. To me that is in part, the draw and adventure you are seeking. I remember last winter being 8 miles into wilderness in the middle of nowhere getting ready to push my limits on a new route and my partner telling me "no fucking around " as I stepped on to one of the rockies tallest free hanging pillars of ice. I understood the risk I was taking and the responsibility for myself and my partner only. The great part of the kayaking community is if one of us were in trouble a few quick phone calls and I know there would be a posse on the road in a matter of no time. Kayaking in the park is no different then many of the remote destinations we travel to and I believe in some part their lack of knowledge of what we do is reasoning for the ban. We need someone or a group with a legal background and level heads to take front of what we are seeking. Perhaps AW can try again while working with local resources and also getting some national publicity would help. 

Luckily there are some places in the U.S. where we can find ourselves "out there" and on our own. As long as those places exist we will continue to find the allure of adventure awaiting us.


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## COLDFEAR (Apr 20, 2004)

So apparently we need to send Bush a kayak!!!!


Bush to open National Parks to Mtn. Biking


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## Chip (Apr 7, 2007)

Filled with cement. _

Wet _cement.


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## shortbus (Jun 22, 2006)

_I agree with Aaron, a lack of understanding of kayaking, matched with mis- appropriation of funding for bigger parking lots at Old Faithful and less for backcountry education is only one challenge we face. Its a similar issue with regard to the discontinuation of winter maintenance through the East Gate in the winter. Officials have a skewed concept of liability and risk assessment. However, I think we should be careful what we wish for. Whoever said in an earlier post that the park should be managed as a wilderness is right, but its a pipe dream, the place is a theme park and I feel so jaded by that that I seldom go into the park for an extended period of time even though it is literally my back yard. Commercial outfitting already exists in the park and even though outfitters may not be interested in the same runs we as kayakers are, it still opens the door for even more commercialization of the park. I say this even as a business owner that would stand to gain from opening more boating in Yellowstone...

_


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## raftus (Jul 20, 2005)

Chip said:


> Filled with cement. _
> 
> Wet _cement.


LOL - You just made my day


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