# Best Playboat for Women?



## Fallingup

Looking for a good women specific playboat. I currently have a Wavesport which is easy to roll, but not so great for tricks etc. Any input would be GrEAt!


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## rivermountaingnar42

i have a g. ride 6.2 for sale if you are interested.


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## Becky J

My roommate and I (both girls) have Dagger KingPins and we both really like them. I know 3 other women that have them as well and have been happy. It fits better around my hips, which is one of the things I think works well for me. I have a 6.2 and it's a little big for throwing around, but it's fun taking it downriver. The other nice thing about them is that they're cheap, especially since the Agent came out. 

Good luck in the search!


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## lmaciag

Also a fan of the Kingpin... actually, a few of us have renamed it the 'Queenpin.'


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## TenMileCreekKayaks

*Kingpin...*

Yes, it is a great boat. Have new ones in stock at cool girl discount....

TMCK


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## Fallingup

Thanks for the tips! Will see if I can demo one of these babies


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## jenneral

Yo Quiero me estrea. (I love my star), but I'm short and stout.


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## LiquidGuy87

Don't get a Kingpin. They leak like a sieve... and they don't nearly have the performance other boats on the market offer.

Are you thinking about taking playboating pretty seriously or just river running in your playboat?

The only reason I would ever suggest buying a Kingpin would be for use as a river running playboat. If you want to play get a Jackson.


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## SueCherry

Here's another gal that likes the kingpin. I paddle a 6.2 and I'm 5'9" 150lbs
I like to try to play, but I've never got very good. A good photographer, Terry, caught this photo of me trying to loop. This picture says more about the photographer than me as a play boater. The kingpin is great for river play and ferries great for catching lots of eddies (another form of play). and yes it leaks like a sieve.


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## Fallingup

LiquidGuy87 said:


> Are you thinking about taking playboating pretty seriously or just river running in your playboat?


I never take anything too seriously, so probably river running in my playboat would be an honest answer.

Any input on the Agent? I am looking at a 6.0. I think the kingpins are too big for my frame (110 lbs, 5'2")


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## yakkeranna

I have an agent 6.0; I'm 5'6, 130. I really like it, and I do more river running in it than playboating. It can get sqirley in eddylines (but don't most playboats?) but it hits and rides bigger holes pretty good. I honestly don't think it leaks very much either... no drainplug, so maybe that's why? Never tried a kingpin, though, so I'm not sure how the two boats compare.


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## rivermountaingnar42

*still for sale*

i really need to get rid of my g. ride. ive dropped the price down to $250! Awesome river-running playboat for women!!!


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## weldernot

110, 5'2"
"probably river running in my playboat would be an honest answer"

If you want to learn to do flatwater vertical moves, you should look at playboats that list your weight as at or near the top end of the weight range. That would tend to be boats of under 40 gallons (WaveSport Fuse 35, Jackson Shooting Star, Jackson Fun 1.5 - at 5'2" you may or may not fit any of these according to your inseam and foot size). Many people do not find playboats in which they are at the top end of the weight range to be fun river runners. (One visual cue for a sufficiently low voume boat for the paddler for easiest learning of flatwater vertical moves: water line when paddler is in the boat is very near, at, or just over the edge delineating the sides of the boat from the top deck along both the bow and stern.)

If you want to surf, spin, and river run, any playboat in which you fit well (boat moves when you move) and which you feel that you can control well should be fine (especially edge control). Consider boat desk heights and boat widths as well as boat suggested weight ranges. (For non-vertical moves such as surfing and spinning, well fitting river runners should also work fine. They just have a bit more mass to move and length to deal with, plus they weigh more for carrying.)

If you want to include river current assisted vertical moves (cartwheels, loops), you need to consider the boat's volume distribution and the boat's pivot point with you in it. Boats with considerably more volume in the bow than the stern can provide more "pop" for looping but can also be much more difficult to bow initiate for cartwheels. If your body mass is too far back in the boat relative to its volume distribution (behind the boat's ideal pivot point), you'll be more likely to flop on your face when going for cartwheels. If the boat is too wide or the deck height to high for you to readily control (and change) edging, you'll have trouble doing play moves (carving, stern squirts, cartwheels, etc.). I'd suggest widths of less than 24.5 inches. You might consider developing a list of boats being considered with their volumes, suggested weight ranges, widths, deck heights, and lengths.


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## Fallingup

"weldernot" ---Thank you for the plethora of infomation.

Everyone else--- You have been very helpful and all info greatly appreciated!


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## kellip

I really like my Star. Super easy to initiate in flat water and still a decent down-river boat. I also really liked the Project. The Agent felt really short nosed to me. It was hard for me to get over that. I'm not a great playboater, but both the Star and Project made me feel like I could be. Both made me feel like if I was able to attempt something it wouldn't be the boat holding me back.


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## brenda

Jackson Star, all.. the way. I am 5'5" 130 lbs. I use it for everything...play and river running, and yes OH! so easy to roll.


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## wheels78

*For women, for men, a playboat's a playboat...*

Women tend to be smaller and have a lower center of gravity but how would that translate to a specific design different then what a male would use? Most models are available in 2 or 3 sizes. ???

BTW, I'm 155 lbs and love the Kingpin 6.2. A while back I bought a used, beat-up kingpin and boated it for 2 years. It had a bunch of aftermarket outfitting that I didn't like so I thought what the heck, maybe I'll buy a brand new boat. I demoed the 2009 Star and thought it was ok, but didn't like it as much as my old Kingpin. Outdoorplay was selling brand new (2009) kingpins for 700.00 so I bought one. What are the Stars going for? Around 1200.00? I couldn't be happier. Yeah, it's not the darling of the year but I just don't believe that each successive model kayak is better the one one before it. Dagger produced a great design with the Kingpin. (the 09 model is dry with my current sprayskirt BTW) And it's pretty amazing how well it also runs rivers.

Bob


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## twitch

*Choices*

I'd agree with the ladies here that a Kingpin seems to work great as a women's playboat and as a river runner. The 6.2 was a little small for me, so I used to throw it around like a mouse to a cat back in the day. I've been in an Agent 6.2 for the last few years and have enjoyed the upgrade, but I'd guess you'd fit the Agent 6.0 better as it's a bit bigger than the kingpin.
Dagger's tend to leak, get used to it, though I have heard that recent modifications to the cockpit rim may have helped that...my Agent wasn't too bad unless and the lack of a drainplug is a plus.

Though I might not agree with Liquid Guys reccomendation, his point is valid in that the Kingpin lacks some of the performance characteristics that the modern boats' possess. Modern hull design like that of the Star & Pyrahna Molan make achieving some of these tricks much easier. 

Take the beta everyone is offering up, see where it measures up with what you want to do, and go from there. There are certainly some great deals on used boats in the swap (I have an Agent 6.2 for sale, but that's too big for you) that allow you to spend a few more dollars on other things like gas and beer, but there's definitely an allure to shiny new plastic as well.


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## KimW

I love my star! I also used to have the smallest EZG which was great for both river running and basic playing...just a little long for playparks. Good luck!


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## riverchick

*Project 45*

I am 5' 2" and 105 and absolutely love my Project 45. It is one of the only playboats I have tried that is small enough for me.


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## Fallingup

Thanks to everyone for posting such good info. All very helpful for someone just getting back into paddling after too much time off!

Still no playboat.....but a couple of days ago demoed a Project in Avon. Really liked it a lot, think I may go with this when I am ready to be upside down in my boat a lot! Lots of people I have talked to really like the Project's too. 

Tried the new Molan.. liked this one, but didn't fit me like the project did. Did not take this in the pool, only sat in. Lots of talk about these boats, good reviews. So maybe I need to try it in the water!

Never had the chance to get into a Star, but heard so many good things about these too. I will try one just to be sure before buying though.

Since I'm doing a lot of river running this year, I upgraded to a new river runner instead of splurging on the playboat. 

Kudos to Matti Wade @ Ten Mile Creek Kayaks, he sat me up with a Wavesport Fuse that is super hot. He did a great job outfitting it for me, and helped me break it in at the pool to make sure it fit me well. Anyone looking for new gear, or advice should pay him a visit. He is a really great shop owner!

Thanks again for the input..

See ya on the River soon enough!


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## rivermusic

Just thought I'd add my playboat question to the thread.... I'm looking to get into more playboating and looking for a (used) playboat. I'm ~5'8" and anywhere between 140 & 150 lbs. It seems like I'm on the high weight range for small sized boats (Jackson star & Project 45) and the low weight range for medium boats (Jackson all star & Project 52). What would you recommend? Thanks!


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## weldernot

If by getting "into more playboating," you mean vertical moves (cartwheels, squirts, etc.) and especially if you want to include vertical moves on flatwater, then being at or over the top end of the suggested weight range is an advantage. This is not necessarily true for loops which require a certain volume of air filled boat relative to paddler weight for adequate "pop." Of course, if you can't bow stall a boat, then "pop" is irrelevant because you won't be flatwater looping. Paddling whitewater in playboats in which you are at or over the suggested high end of the weight range easily leads to punishment for poor playboater posture, poor technique, or inadequate attention. Additionally, if you have to move the seat too far back in the boat because of leg length and foot size, throwing the boat down to a bow stall will become more difficult because of the location of the majority of your weigth relative to the prefered pivot point for the boat.

At 5'4" and 140lbs, I play in an EZG42 (42 gallons) which I can flatwater cartwheel and which I enjoy using as a river runner as well as a park and play boat. I also have and like a Siren (40 gallons) which I would be surprised if someone 5'8" could fit in comfortably (unless your legs are pretty short for your height). Hull design matters as much as boat volume; I can throw down my EZG42 a bit easier than my Siren despite its 2 gallons greater displacement.

From my experience, if flatwater vertical capability is desired at 140 to 150lbs, I would suggest definitely staying under 50 gallons and probably even 45 gallons and under. I would also suggest looking at boats 25 inches wide or less (emphasis towards less). Besides the EZG42, I have spent some time messing about in a Kingpin 6.2, in a Vision 44, in a Skip, in an EZ, and in a Chronic. I didn't find the Vision 44 (44 galllons) or Skip (39 gallons) as easy to stern squirt as the Siren or EZG42 (I think more of a volume distribution effect rather than a total volume issue). At 47 gallons, I find the Chronic requires more muscle to double pump down than I care for and the EZ is just not going to happen. While I can throw down the Kingpin 6.2, I don't happen to like it's volume distribution for handling nor its leg positions for my comfort.

For foot and leg space, I think the Chronic, Project 45, Vision 44, 4twenty (small - 46 gallons), and Kingpin may offer more than the EZG42 and certainly than the Siren. I don't have foot space experience with the Jackson boats. I also don't currently have experience with the Fluid Nemesis (44 gallons), but it also looks like it might be a boat to consider at 140 to 150lbs.


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## chepora

I just got a star which is awesome and very tiny...low volume. I think this years star is a little higher volume esp in the stern. Its kicking my ass and I love it very squirrely compared to my g-ride 6.2 which is much bigger, but this makes it so much nicer in a hole and for play!


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## ldebell

I have a 2007 Star I'd be interesed in selling if anyone is looking. Boat is located in Fort collins and is in good condition and setup with foam (not a fan of happy feet etc.) for 5'2" boater. Price is negotiable. Eventually I'll get it posted in the swap section with phots but I've been to busy. Send me a private message if itnerested.


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## nckayakgrrl

i love my kingpin. duct tape and aqua seal will fix the leaks, great big water play- throws wave wheels like a dream. i'm five foot six and 135 and paddle a 6.2


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## Fallingup

chepora said:


> Its kicking my ass and I love it!


Nicely put!


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## kateb

I'm a little surprised no ones mentioned it, I have a small crazy 88 and love it. I think it's similar to the kingpin. I use it mostly for river running and find it's really easy to roll, but it is definitely a playboat. The club at my school has one and its the favourite among a lot of girls


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## Gazelleboat

Hi, I boat in an Agent 6.0 and love it: Had a Kingpin as well, the Agent is much drier and a bit smaller so that's a plus and I believe to be an upgrade from the Kingpin.


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## katealta

if you are a smaller girl, i would recommend a jackson fun in one of the smaller sizes. i have a jackson 1.5 and it is great! super easy to throw around even if you don't weigh a ton.


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## Gazelleboat

*Jackson 1.5*

I agree, the 1.5 is sooo wonderful to actually pull off flat water moves at 110 pounds in my case; unfortunately my legs are too long and extend into the bow so far my feet can't stand the pain. Has anyone tried the Fuse 35 or the 2010 Jackson Star?


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## brenda

I paddle a Star. How tall are you. I am 5'5" and I fit fine. The new 2010's are shorter though so I don't know about them. Mine is a 2009. I demo'd a Fuse and really didn't like it at all. The Jackson Star plays like a dream.


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