# Grand Canyon 2017 Launch Dates Available Now!



## GCPBA (Oct 22, 2009)

*Grand Canyon 2017 - Fifteen Launch Dates Available Now!*

This is from the Grand Canyon River Permits Office. A few dates during the next seven days are available to whomever can make a trip happen quickly for themselves. Good luck to everyone!

We have just opened a follow-up lottery for 2017 launch dates at the weighted lottery website (https://grcariverpermits.nps.gov) . The lottery will accept applications until Thursday, March 23, 2017, at 10:00 AM Mountain Standard Time. The available launch dates are:

*Standard Size Trips* (1 - 16 people):
March 2017: 25, 26, 28
April 2017: 8, 13
May 2017: 26
September 2017: 25
December 2017: 2

*Small Size Trips* (1 - 8 people):
May 2017: 4, 6, 20, 22, 26
June 2017: 1
July 2017: 7

Winners will have until Friday, March 24, 2017, at 10:00 AM Mountain Standard Time to pay their nonrefundable deposits ($400 for standard size trips, $200 for small size trips).

We strongly recommended all lottery applications list at least one Potential Alternate Trip Leader (PATL). If the original trip leader becomes unable to go on the river trip, and there are no confirmed PATLs, the trip will be cancelled. PATLs can be added to a river trip by the trip leader only when submitting a lottery application; see Noncommercial River Trip Regulations for clarification.

FORGOT YOUR PASSWORD? You can request a new temporary password by clicking "Forgot my username and/or password" (located below the login box) when on the noncommercial river website. IMPORTANT: The worst time to request a password reset is during the first few hours after a lottery notification email has been sent. The email with your new temporary password will not go out until all lottery notification emails have been sent.

Sincerely,
Grand Canyon River Permits Office

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The Grand Canyon River Permits Office sends out emails announcing the main lottery and follow-up lotteries. You can choose to receive all, none, or any combination of these emails. To set your email preferences, login and then click on "Edit Personal Information".

To be sure our emails get to you, add the following two email addresses ([email protected] and [email protected]) to your email contacts. This should prevent River Permits Office emails from being blocked by a spam filter.
______________________________________________________________________________

Grand Canyon River Permits Office Contact Information

Phone: 800-959-9164 (toll free)
928-638-7843 (optional non-toll-free number to same line)

Fax: 928-638-7844

Mail: National Park Service
Grand Canyon River Permits
1824 S. Thompson St., Suite 201
Flagstaff, AZ 86001

email: [email protected]
IMPORTANT: do not email personally identifiable information, such as date of birth or payment details.

Websites:
River Information: www.nps.gov/grca/planyourvisit/whitewater-rafting.htm
Available Launch Dates: www.nps.gov/grca/planyourvisit/cancelled-dates.htm
Noncommercial River Trip Regulations: https://grcariverpermits.nps.gov/pdf/Noncommercial_River_Trip_Regulations.pdf
Frequently Asked Questions: https://grcariverpermits.nps.gov/pdf/River_and_Weighted_Lottery_FAQs.pdf
Statistics From Past Lotteries: www.nps.gov/grca/planyourvisit/noncommercial-riv-docs.htm
Noncommercial River Website: https://grcariverpermits.nps.gov
Password Reset: https://grcariverpermits.nps.gov/forgotLogin.cfm

Twitter: twitter.com/GCRiverPermits


GCPBA RiverNews is a service of Grand Canyon Private Boaters Association.
Join and Support GCPBA. Visit our website www.gcpba.org.
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## David L (Feb 13, 2004)

Even with the very short notice for the March 25, 26, and 28 launch dates there were 23, 17, and 29 applications that listed those dates. Stats are here:

https://www.nps.gov/grca/planyourvisit/upload/2017_Follow-up_Lottery_03-23-17.pdf


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## buckmanriver (Apr 2, 2008)

David L,

Yes,and the odds of losing the lottery for the March 25,26,28 dates was 96%, 94% and 99%. 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1i3l5KFmxQpfuuH880hqhZmvjb5wRPzvDgJV9YK7FrFU/edit#gid=825330239


~ B


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## jporter59 (Apr 21, 2009)

*Get a Job*

It is really sad how many river scum are so flexible in their lives that they can put together a 21 day trip in a week or less. How are we ever going to make America GREAT again with that kind of work ethic? March is a great time to be down there if you like hiking you ass off!


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## Fumble (May 23, 2013)

I would like to see the max points increased from 5 to 7 or 8.


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## landslide (Dec 20, 2014)

> I would like to see the max points increased from 5 to 7 or 8.


Man, that would show all those 5-pointers a thing or two! They think they're so damn special winning all the permits.

Seriously, though, things don't look so hot for us 1-pointers. Even on a super short notice follow-up lottery, 1-pointers just don't get no love. It's like the lottery is stacked against us or something. Sad! 

:shock: /snark


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## climbdenali (Apr 2, 2006)

Grand Canyon's non-commercial lottery system is the fairest one we've got, I'd say. The ability to game the system or eke out some kind of advantage is just about nil.


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## landslide (Dec 20, 2014)

Just so there's no confusion about my joke: the GC Lottery is a weighted lottery. It is *designed* to give people who have not run the Canyon recently a better chance of winning a permit while someone who ran it last year has a much slimmer chance of wining. Hence the joke, "It's almost like the lottery is stacked against us, or something." *It is!*

I couldn't agree more that the GC Lottery is the fairest of the bunch. My biggest concern about it is when short notice cancellations are released in a follow up lottery with only a few days left before the launch date. But as was noted above, there is *STILL* a lot of demand for those permits. They aren't going to waste and they aren't easy to win, either. In other words, the system is working just fine. It sucks that there is so much competition for permits, but that's just life.

As competition for permits on the MF Salmon, Selway, Gates of Lodore, and Yampa continues to increase every year, we need to look at the GC lottery for ideas about how to handle such high demand.


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## climbdenali (Apr 2, 2006)

Well said, Landslide. I completely agree.

I do wonder, though, about the degree to which non-commercial user days are filled. I don't know the numbers, and don't have time to look them up, but I can't help but think that a lot of our allocation is being wasted, even if launches aren't. If one wants to run a 4 person winter trip, great. But if those trips are going unfilled out of lack of participants, then there should be rule tweaks. That is, if people are unwilling/unable to go on Nov-Feb trips out of fear of being barred from a trip later in the year or having done a main season trip, the one trip rule should change. That's about my only gripe with the GC system. If the numbers say otherwise, I stand corrected.


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## landslide (Dec 20, 2014)

Just off the top of my head... I think that the average size of a winter trip is a little over 8 participants. The current GC management plan assumes that those trips are full trips, with close to 16 participants. 

So, yes, the current allotment of only one private launch per day during the winter season is resulting in few numbers of private boaters accessing the river. Because winter trips naturally seem to attract smaller groups, I am definitely in favor of increasing private launches to two per day during the winter. 

I've read that the NPS managers think the wilderness area "deserves a rest" during the winter season. Hard to say whether that is true or not in terms of wildlife ecology, but no one can deny that this practice results in fewer private boaters getting to do a river trip a given year.


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## buckmanriver (Apr 2, 2008)

Just in case folks are curious about the commercial allocation river usage compared to non-commercial. The data is below: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1HWf9xXsjXOX4VIMkUJ8Ab70IRmK2sR35ihYkn75272Y/edit#gid=494035521


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