# Upper C: PUT YOUR FIRE OUT!!!



## MountainmanPete (Jun 7, 2014)

I think its somewhere between common sense and education/outreach. Not that there hasn't been enough about putting your fire dead out. But I really do think that there should be billboards along I 70 maybe just west of Idaho Springs that say:

Where does your poop go when you disperse camp? 

Wear a life jacket. 

Don't run above rancho with a single chamber vessel. 

Put your fire out. 

Don't be a douche. 

I believe that its gonna get worse before it gets better. Dispersed camping is getting closed down more and more and camping as we know/remember it will be a lot different in 20 years.


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## lmyers (Jun 10, 2008)

MountainmanPete said:


> I believe that its gonna get worse before it gets better. Dispersed camping is getting closed down more and more and camping as we know/remember it will be a lot different in 20 years.



Unfortunately you are right. The camping pressure seems to increase exponentially each year, throughout the mountains. Cottonwood Pass has seen a significant increase in dispersed camping this year with sites set up on the inside of EVERY switchback. I drove up Saturday and I bet I saw 15 sites that I had never seen occupied before.... and that situation is representative of the entire Arkansas Valley. Pretty soon the land managers will be left with no choice but to create a dispersed system like the Slate River Valley over at Crested Butte...


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## MtnGuyXC (Jul 20, 2006)

*Fire Out*

With much dismay I believe Imyers is right.

I ran into this issue the other day. I just knew when I saw the group that they were going to leave a mess. When I came back past after the run they were gone & had left all their garbage everywhere & a fire Burning!!...Not just smoldering. The fire was twenty feet from the water & they couldnt even put it out. Idiots! I was bummed I didnt have a camera to capture my gut instinct.


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## matt man (Dec 23, 2011)

Wow.
This is also another reason why fire rings need to stop being a thing, unless they are in a blm site, made of steel, on a concrete pad. 
Sounds like this group made zero effort to put it out. In Forrest or brushy areas, even if you make an effort to put it out, but don’t get it all, roots, bark, and forrest floor material, can continue to smolder for DAYS, unnoticed, till it re-ignites. 

To many people to not use fire pans and groovers on the river, and in dispersed camping areas.


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## GeoRon (Jun 24, 2015)

Disgusting is the only word for it. I'm ashamed of our boating community. We pulled up to a camp last Wednesday with one boat already in the eddy but obviously not camping. Children were going up and down the trail to the main camp while two adult males sat in their boat drinking beer. They said it would be about 15-20 minutes so we spun about in the giant eddy upstream of the camp. As they left and we pulled in they said "Have fun!". The children had krapped and pissed all over up in the main camp area. We did the best we could to clean up the mess.

In the four days in the over dozen camps we visited for one reason or another there were at least two trashy fire rings per camp.

It has been many, many years since I've been boat camping on an unregulated/unpermitted river. In general, boaters need to be regulated. Rivers need to be regulated to prevent this type of krap from happening. That is my opinion after this experience.


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## mr. compassionate (Jan 13, 2006)

MountainmanPete said:


> I think its somewhere between common sense and education/outreach. Not that there hasn't been enough about putting your fire dead out. But I really do think that there should be billboards along I 70 maybe just west of Idaho Springs that say:
> 
> Where does your poop go when you disperse camp?
> 
> ...


 
Huh, never heard of a no kayak rule above Rancho? It is a rather lame section to yak though...


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## MontanaLaz (Feb 15, 2018)

As much as I am loathe to say it, it will take increased enforcement. I've got a decent contingent of FS and BLM folks in my group of friends and boating buddies and they have some gems to tell. The bad part is that they have so many examples of this type of behavior that it is pretty disheartening for them. I also know how much they enjoy it when people have their $41t together.

I remember when the Moab area was "wide open" 20 years ago, until it became a victim of its own popularity. I started heading further afield for my Colorado Plateau adventures. 10 years ago the parking area for Little Wild Horse was a wide spot in the wash and you could do the whole loop and maybe see one other group. We went through there two years ago and there was at least 30 vehicles jammed into the improved and overflow lots and there was a half an hour line for the pit toilet. I keep a couple of wag bags in my vehicle all the time, but I bet that there was more than one person who just couldn't wait...

We took the kids to Goblin Valley for a quick morning walk instead and bailed for a much more remote locale.

The crazy thing is how seasonal it seems to be. This year we did RH during the last week of March (when the snow was still deep here in MT) and saw almost no one. We took our time and did two layover days. First morning we saw two BLM employees motoring by on a work trip and on the last day we saw two guys in a duckie. That was it, we had the whole place to ourselves. 65 and sunny, no wind, cool evenings...


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## raymo (Aug 10, 2008)

*Shit happens tool...*

I hate to say this but it's been happening for quite awhile, live camp fires, trash, shit piles, etc. A friend, introduced me to one of these awhile back, and I made it a part of my equipment box(pooper scooter)sense. Shit is going to continue happen dispite regulations. It doesn't hurt to try and keep the ones that don't give a crap a heads up on the correct camping protocol, though. Maybe some of our great rafting, equipment stores could sell them, as a shit happens tool. I'm not really keen on picking up someone else's mess eather. After you rinse them off they make great back scratchers too. PS, don't pick up bear poop and carry it around, I think they use it to mark their territory and if another bear gets a sniff of it, might piss him off.


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## GeoRon (Jun 24, 2015)

Great idea Raymo. I'll add an old cat litter scoop to my dry box.

Another beef. I saw a raft with two young couples and two dogs pull out on one of the sweetest of gravel bars; babbling side creek, flowers, large gentle eddy, etc. Dogs jump out, squat about 25 feet from the boat and you know the rest. Well, oarsman proceeds to the squat spot, looks down and begins to reach for his back pocket. I thought, there's a good man and he's going to clean up after himself(his dog that is). Instead, it turns out to be a vape kit. He vapes while contemplating his dog's krap, they proceed to load up and they float away. Perhaps a reason why dogs are not allowed and shouldn't be on many rivers. 

The other reason to outlaw dogs is incessant wildlife harassment. I witnessed this last week, boat lands, yapper on board bolts like a rocket at geese about 50 feet away. Geese stand their ground and snap back at the mutt. Bitch on board, not a dog, runs over yelling not at the dog but at the geese and proceeds to throw rocks at the geese. Unbelievable.


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## Nubie Jon (Dec 19, 2017)

Love the scoop idea! Will be adding to my raft box....

What gets me is we try to teach our kids how do do the right thing and be stewards and we run into this type of behavior it makes it a hard lesson to teach. In our group it is a requirement for all the kids (there are 6) to go find two pieces of trash each morning that are not ours and throw it away. We make them help with the groover and with scooping ash from the firepan. Hoping that it will sink in and become a life lesson.

What really gets me is a situation like this..... We pulled into Windy Point 1 on Thursday for lunch and there were three tents set up there... Looking around there was no gear, no wood, nothing to denote it as an active camp site (as a matter of fact one tent was collapsed by the wind). This takes away our ability to camp at some of these sites cuz some people are greedy and want to hold it for the weekend. I like camping mid week and my lifestyle allows it.... I think it is crap that I have to compete with this type of stuff.

There was a white paper released on permitting the campsites on the upper C starting in 2020. I have not heard anything after that, I hope it goes through.


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## MountainmanPete (Jun 7, 2014)

mr. compassionate said:


> Huh, never heard of a no kayak rule above Rancho? It is a rather lame section to yak though...


Sorry, perhaps I wasn't being clear. What I was referring to was proper vessels and no pool toys (tubes, nonsense "rafts" inflatable alligators).


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## GeoRon (Jun 24, 2015)

Nubie Jon said:


> What really gets me is a situation like this..... We pulled into Windy Point 1 on Thursday for lunch and there were three tents set up there... Looking around there was no gear, no wood, nothing to denote it as an active camp site (as a matter of fact one tent was collapsed by the wind). This takes away our ability to camp at some of these sites cuz some people are greedy and want to hold it for the weekend. I like camping mid week and my lifestyle allows it.... I think it is crap that I have to compete with this type of stuff.


On Wednesday WP1 camp had tents as you describe. WP4(the last/lowest) camp had a single tent with no associated indication of use. I didn't think of it then but I bet you are right, which is, lowlifes are putting up cheap tents to hold down the camp during the week. Perhaps vigilante action should be employed. Not vandalism, just politely moving tents out of the way into a discrete corner.

The camp I described as being abused is RM26.9, the next one below WP).


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## Nubie Jon (Dec 19, 2017)

GeoRon said:


> On Wednesday WP1 camp had tents as you describe. WP4(the last/lowest) camp had a single tent with no associated indication of use. I didn't think of it then but I bet you are right, which is, lowlifes are putting up cheap tents to hold down the camp during the week. Perhaps vigilante action should be employed. Not vandalism, just politely moving tents out of the way into a discrete corner.
> 
> The camp I described as being abused is RM26.9, the next one below WP).


I was going to put chicken bones in them...... cold fried chicken is our jam on day trips...... but the wife wouldn't let me!


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## GeoRon (Jun 24, 2015)

That is why our significant others are frequently called our better halves.

I had a friend who held a wedding ceremony there at WP about 30 years ago. A bachelors party was held there days in advance and held down the camp until the ceremonial float and event. That I consider proper but to set up tents and potentially hold down the campsite for potentially the entire summer is wrong! I wonder if it does any good to call and report it.


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## stribtw (Mar 19, 2009)

GeoRon said:


> On Wednesday WP1 camp had tents as you describe. WP4(the last/lowest) camp had a single tent with no associated indication of use. I didn't think of it then but I bet you are right, which is, lowlifes are putting up cheap tents to hold down the camp during the week. Perhaps vigilante action should be employed. Not vandalism, just politely moving tents out of the way into a discrete corner.
> 
> The camp I described as being abused is RM26.9, the next one below WP).


Last year, we saw a fire still smoldering at the 26.9 camp. No boats, no people, no tents. Also last year we started noticing the lone POS tent being left at WP4, basically every week. We had a group of friends move the tent and spend one night at WP4 over Memorial Day weekend last year. No one ever came by.


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## Eagle Mapper (Mar 24, 2008)

You can drive into WP, so it is not river camping only. I believe the original campsite in this thread is a drive in site as well. Not that being able to drive in makes any of these actions ok.


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## Andy H. (Oct 13, 2003)

Any time I want to camp in a littered campsite with broken glass, fire ring, and shit behind every bush, I find one that people can drive into as well as access from the river...


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## mr. compassionate (Jan 13, 2006)

MountainmanPete said:


> Sorry, perhaps I wasn't being clear. What I was referring to was proper vessels and no pool toys (tubes, nonsense "rafts" inflatable alligators).



Sorry, was just being a smartass!  Interesting though that single chambered vessels are exempt from BUI laws...


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## zbaird (Oct 11, 2003)

Interesting. Guess I need a bucket boat with blown baffles for when I wanna run drunk.


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## Andy H. (Oct 13, 2003)

zbaird said:


> Interesting. Guess I need a bucket boat with blown baffles for when I wanna run drunk.


I'm sure you wouldn't be the first in that setup....


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## matt man (Dec 23, 2011)

I’m usually pretty nice to people about most things... and if someone leaves stuff at a camp to double dip for the day on a run, that’s one thing...

But if somebody is trying to tie up a campsite every weekend, all summer, FUCK EM.
That’s the time to take there shit and throw it in the trash, eventually they will quit doin it. Make sure it is not somebody off hiking or something.
If we put up with shit, we will have to deal with the same old crap forever.


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## matt man (Dec 23, 2011)

Or post it as lost equipment, you want your shit, come get it, and explain to everybody how you were enough of a dum ass to forget your tent at a public campsite for a week, or why you were trying to screw everyone else over...


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## GeoRon (Jun 24, 2015)

For what it is worth I will be contacting the following when the office opens tomorrow. I suggest that we all report nefarious activity on the Upper C.

Northwest District Office
2300 River Frontage Road
Silt, CO 81652
970-876-9000

ne·far·i·ous
/nəˈferēəs/
Learn to pronounce
adjective
(typically of an action or activity) wicked or criminal.
"the nefarious activities of the organized-crime syndicates"
synonyms:	wicked, evil, sinful, iniquitous, villainous, criminal, heinous, atrocious, appalling, abhorrent, vile, foul, base, abominable, odious, depraved, corrupt, shameful, scandalous, monstrous, fiendish, diabolical, devilish, unholy, ungodly, infernal, satanic, dark, unspeakable, despicable, outrageous, shocking, disgraceful;


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## phillersk (Apr 24, 2006)

I don't think it will help much to call District Office, look for the correct Field Office. That way you'll get the right repose for things like people claiming campsites for the week, or trash. BTW, take a picture with a time stamp and what you've observed, send it to them. This will help the enforcement side if they need to take the equipment from the site and/or issue a citation. I know they deal with this all the time, but often only know if you report it. 



The Upper C above State Bridge is the Kremmling Field Office. Below State Bridge to Dotsero will be the Colorado River Valley Field Office. Call the right office for the right rangers to respond.


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## GeoRon (Jun 24, 2015)

Thank you Phil for recommending the proper way to handle this.

Colorado River Valley Field Office
Larry Sandoval
Field Manager
2300 River Frontage Road
Silt, CO 81652
Fax:
970-876-9090
Phone:
970-876-9000

Kremmling Field Office
Bill Mills
Field Manager
2103 E. Park Ave.
Kremmling, CO 80459
Fax:
970-724-3066
Phone:
970-724-3000


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