# Aire 146DD Frame Width & Outfitting



## Whitewater Worthy Equip (Dec 11, 2013)

We like wide frames soOutside of long bars sit on the outer edge of top chafe strip.


----------



## MR. ED (Jan 21, 2008)

My NRS single rail crossbars are 66 inches wide. Good luck


----------



## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

Looking at the wireframe: 
















There aren't really any good pics of the chafers, but it seems reasonable you could add a rail 6" outside each side of that 58" dimension. 70" would be my guess. 

If you have the raft and frame in hand, inflate the boat, set up the frame, and take some pics that we can armchair-quarterback.

I really can't argue with a wide frame if you don't have any other constraints that would make a narrower frame optimal!


----------



## MR. ED (Jan 21, 2008)

Update... my DRE footbar is roughly 64.5 inches putting the speed rail fittings at 66 inches on the outside. At 66 wide it sits nicely on the rubber. There’s more chaffing strip out side but it wraps down onto the tubes. Seems like you could push out a bit but all the weight in your frame would be on the cross bars. Not sure if or how that would impact anything.


----------



## Liquidsunshine (Mar 6, 2020)

I have a DRL Lo-pro frame on my 146DD that is 63.5" wide and it fits perfect. If you wanted to go a little wider you could, but I don't think any wider than 66"


----------



## Electric-Mayhem (Jan 19, 2004)

Mine is pretty wide...but its double rail with decking. I don't have an official measurement for you...but oar towers basically sit right at the edge of the raft tube as you look down.

Sorry...not a great picture but still the only one I have that reasonable shows my frame setup (the closer boat with the wood decks)...










Chafers are super wide on Aire boats (or at least the 146DD)...they extend far beyond where even the widest frame would go off of them...

This is the 136DD...but you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference without a tape measure...










The flat spot on both 136DD and 146DD extend past the chaffer. I used 88" side rails and it extended past the chaffer on the 136DD but fits perfect on the 146DD. 

I really like having the full width frame. It works with both 10' and 11' oars (recommend 10'ers for most people...I'm weird and like long oars) and the spacing seems ideal. Its nice to have the side boards to walk on too. My side boards are 12" wide and extend slightly inside the tubes...but I dig it for stuffing stuff like throw bags, water bottles and other stuff you need to stash last minute. The gaps are tight enough to not be an entrapment hazard too.

Oh...and 36-37" coolers and dryboxes fit perfect in this boat. I have two of the 37" Frontierplay dryboxes and they fit like they were designed for this boat. I'm rocking the Canyon Coolers Prospector and its feels similar but a bit looser.


----------



## dj_marmot (May 15, 2020)

*146DD*

Hey, I am finishing up outfitting our 146DD. We have a double rail frame with diamond plating. I cut down the width so that outside tube to outside tube is 70". It seems like a good fit. Let me know if you have any other questions.


----------



## FirstTram (May 14, 2020)

Thanks for the great tips! I was kind of thinking 70" might be the sweet spot, but 66" seems good too. On another note, does anyone have experience cutting down a Down River frame to a new width? The center bars seem straight forward, but the end bars that have a female coupling and pin seem pretty tricky to get dialed in to their tight specifications.


----------



## bcpnick (Jul 16, 2015)

I have an NRS frame with 66" cross bars on mine (about 69" overall). Much wider than that and the side rails will be overhanging. 70 should be fine though.


----------



## Electric-Mayhem (Jan 19, 2004)

I measured my frame yesterday...and its 69" at the widest part of the side rail and 73" to the outside of the oar tower mount.


----------



## UseTheSpinMove (Nov 16, 2016)

I have never cut a DRE frame, but I did cut my NRS frame a couple years back to accomodate a slightly smaller boat that I got. I guess my takeaway, for me personally: measure three times and cut once! 

A good handy-person can figure it out, but I certainly regretted rushing through a couple of pieces. Firstly, I didn't get the cuts super square (should have been easy -- I just rushed it). Secondly, the NRS pipe ends for the cross-bars need two holes to accept the bolt that holds the pipe ends on... and those two holes need to be parallel on both ends of the cross bar, which can actually be a tricky thing to get right. Again, I rushed that and figured "good enough" and now for the rest of its life, it's a little bit... um... "crooked". Works fine but I personally would recommend being more careful than I was! Worth the extra time to keep your frame square and straight, and they are expensive parts to replace. Have fun!


----------



## Electric-Mayhem (Jan 19, 2004)

UseTheSpinMove said:


> I have never cut a DRE frame, but I did cut my NRS frame a couple years back to accomodate a slightly smaller boat that I got. I guess my takeaway, for me personally: measure three times and cut once!
> 
> A good handy-person can figure it out, but I certainly regretted rushing through a couple of pieces. Firstly, I didn't get the cuts super square (should have been easy -- I just rushed it). Secondly, the NRS pipe ends for the cross-bars need two holes to accept the bolt that holds the pipe ends on... and those two holes need to be parallel on both ends of the cross bar, which can actually be a tricky thing to get right. Again, I rushed that and figured "good enough" and now for the rest of its life, it's a little bit... um... "crooked". Works fine but I personally would recommend being more careful than I was! Worth the extra time to keep your frame square and straight, and they are expensive parts to replace. Have fun!


DRE is a bit easier since they use the fittings that go outside the tube instead of slipping inside. Definitely a lot more fudge room with that style. They cross drill holes in the Hollaender fittings to keep them together so its as easy as cutting the cross rails to the length you want, fit everything together with the set screws tightened and then just use the cross drilled fittings as their own jigs for the bolts to go through.

NRS style, along with Whitewater Machineworks, style frame fittings are definitely tricky to line up the holes. Certainly try to get it as straight as possible on the ends of the pipes...though I've struggled even when I'm trying. Probably better to use a chop saw or something that can hold then at a 90 degree angle...I just used my Portaband Saw. 

I've found that rather then trying to drill both holes in hopes that they line up... drill one hole lined up as best you can and then put the fitting on and use it to line up the 2nd hole. In other words, drill through the first hole and the fitting to make the 2nd hole. 

An alternative is to just drill new holes. NRS actually has an option to purchase their Lo-Pro fittings with no holes...and then you just drill all the way through with the rails slipped over the fitting. You can emulate this by just drilling a second set of holes in the fitting that already has been setup once. Just make sure you are a half inch either side of the original holes so you don't get overlap. I think this might be how they do it at the factory too...or at least used to. I cannibalized an old frame for its fittings and foot bar a while back and the holes definitely weren't in the same place from fitting to fitting.

I've always though that NRS should sell a jig for marking and drill the holes to fit their fittings. Cut the pipes to length, attach the jig that lines the holes up perfectly, drill the holes...bolt it together. Wouldn't be hard to make one yourself.


----------



## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

Electric-Mayhem said:


> I've found that rather then trying to drill both holes in hopes that they line up... drill one hole lined up as best you can and then put the fitting on and use it to line up the 2nd hole. In other words, drill through the first hole and the fitting to make the 2nd hole.


I think what UseTheSpinMove was saying is that it's even harder to line up the LoPro on the other end so both of _its_ holes line up.


----------



## Electric-Mayhem (Jan 19, 2004)

MT4Runner said:


> I think what UseTheSpinMove was saying is that it's even harder to line up the LoPro on the other end so both of _its_ holes line up.


ah...yeah... lining up each end so the fittings bolt on straight is definitely non-trivial too. Easy enough with a long piece of angle iron (or aluminum) to mark a line each end for that though.

It never ceases to amaze me how seemingly simple tasks like this get complicated and weird very quickly once you look at them with more detail.


----------



## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

Electric-Mayhem said:


> ah...yeah... lining up each end so the fittings bolt on straight is definitely non-trivial too. Easy enough with a long piece of angle iron (or aluminum) to mark a line each end for that though.


Or bolt both lopros to a side bar with the side bars sitting on equal-height blocks (or all sitting on the floor on their ubolts).



> It never ceases to amaze me how seemingly simple tasks like this get complicated and weird very quickly once you look at them with more detail.


And this coming from someone who has built things before. Imagine if you only used your drill for mounting a few pictures on the wall.

and now we see why machinists make good money!


----------



## Electric-Mayhem (Jan 19, 2004)

MT4Runner said:


> Or bolt both lopros to a side bar with the side bars sitting on equal-height blocks (or all sitting on the floor on their ubolts).


I guess...still super hard to figure out where the hole is in the LoPro fitting accurately. Your way works great if you are drilling a new hole all the way through...but if you are trying to line up with an existing hole in the LoPro it involves a lot of measuring and crossing of fingers that you did it right. Only drilling the one hole in to match one side of the fitting and then drill through that hole, through the fitting and through the other side is a great way to guarantee the bolt will go through at least.

Luckily the OP has a DRE frame with speedrail fittings...so just cut the cross pipes all the the same length, assemble the frame and then drill the holes for the bolts. It is definitely MUCH simpler having the fittings on the outside of the tube rather then slipped inside the pipe/tube.




> And this coming from someone who has built things before. Imagine if you only used your drill for mounting a few pictures on the wall.
> 
> and now we see why machinists make good money!


yep... or at least SHOULD make great money. From talking to many machinists and fabricators, mostly clients truly don't appreciate the time it takes to get things right and often are shocked at what it costs and want it reduced. That isn't taking into account the tools of the trade either. I definitely was like that at one point till I really started doing stuff for myself. I'm certainly on the slower side and enthusiastic amateur and the pro's do it way faster and better...but most guys who do this for a living aren't getting rich off of it unfortunately. Seems to me being a programmer is a better use of your time these days too...since most professional machining is done by CNC and new young manual machinists are much rarer these days. Even the CNC side is underated though. People think you just design something in Solidworks or Fusion 360 and upload it into the CNC and the machine figures it all out... but while super advanced and amazing...they are also completely dumb and will only do what you tell them and potential for catastrophe is high if you aren't careful (lots of evidence on Youtube).

Sorry... its not a forum thread without going off on a tangent...right?


----------



## FirstTram (May 14, 2020)

*Thanks for all the advice!*

Thanks for all the advice, tips and opinions. We went with 69" total width on the outside rail and it seems like a sweet spot in terms of both rails riding on each tube. 



I used a chop saw with a grinder blade to make the cuts and a laser level to get the center line from one pin to the new hole. Managed to drill both pins pretty nicely with lots of careful measuring and help from a T square.


The key to getting the holes lined up was to use cam straps to hold all the fittings just as tight as possible when drilling and to measure and measure again and again. 



I'll post up another photo once we're all rigged up next week!


----------

