# Grand Canyon



## richp (Feb 27, 2005)

Hi Raftnc,

I'm curious why you are concerned about 30k cfs. 

Could be displaying my ignorance here, but in the years I've been following GC issues, the release parameters have never been established this far in advance. Also, a release that high would likely be associated with an specially-arranged high volume event to replenish beaches, which is an uncommon event set up with a lot of science-related activity. Or, I suppose, it could be an equalization event to move water from Powell to Mead. But without knowing what the Spring runoff is, that's not likely to be on the schedule yet either.

Do you know something we don't? (grin)

Rich Phillips


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## Raftnc (Jul 2, 2013)

Rich, heard that next November will be releasing 30,000 for a particular reason that escapes me now. Any info on that? Dan


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## B4otter (Apr 20, 2009)

Don't know anyone - including the guys that determine whether to open/close the gates on the dam, who are here in SLC (with help from Denver) - who can say with any authority what flows will be in November. Especially given we are again below normal precip on the water year for the drainage. IF there are experimental high flows - and there were last November - they are almost always only 5 days duration. 
To respond to the question, I've boated it at 25k several times and 45k and around 80k ('83, the year we all want again!!!). It just gets better and better, but you need to have big river high water experience to be safe. 30k would be damn near ideal from motor boater perspective, rowing a raft you need only to get lined up way early and stay on top of your line all the way down - but have lots of room to see what's happening. Hance (especially since 2012 change) gets HUGE. Some of the "smaller" stuff (think the jewels) becomes significant, but in general, the rocks are covered, the freeway is there, find it and stay square to any waves/holes and you'll be good. Best thing is you can do 25 miles by lunch at those flows, if you know how... 
It's snowing as I type here in SLC, but we need MORE!


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## richp (Feb 27, 2005)

Hi Dan,

B4otter nailed it. Normally, projected release numbers are usually only announced a few months out, and the high volume events are worked up for a totally different reason -- independent of inflow into Powell.

If you can get 25-30k, it will be a fun ride. But winter releases ordinarily are more modest.

Good luck on putting your trip together.

Rich Phillips


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## Raftnc (Jul 2, 2013)

Okay, thanks guys. How about weather/gear advice. My prior trip was in September. Dan


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## jmacn (Nov 20, 2010)

November is typically a "dry" month. Cold clear nights and warm sunshine. I'd bring winter camping gear w/ good shelter. Precipitation could make for a chilly trip, but likely it'll be spectacular conditions complete with changing fall leaves. You'll be milking the sunshine the way most trips milk the shade on a hot trip. Great time to be down there!


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## Schutzie (Feb 5, 2013)

Schutzie ponders a November GC trip...............

first on his list would be a really warm momma!

(sorry; he's ready for the game today and is in his cups a bit already)


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## Badazws6 (Mar 4, 2007)

Did a late Nov/early Dec. trip a few years back. Had cold weather, well below averages for most of the trip which wasn't really very much fun. The biggest thing is the short days and the lack of sunlight, especially direct sunlight.


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## sleighr (Nov 14, 2011)

Having said all that, Be ready for any weather Northern AZ can dish. I live outside of Flagstaff and have seen everything from balmy to 20 below and dry to mountains of snow. There is no bad time to be in the canyon.


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## DoStep (Jun 26, 2012)

Did a november trip with pretty good weather several years ago. The days are short and get noticeably shorter as you go. There were days when we did not see direct sun for hours at a time, but perhaps a ribbon a few hundred yards long where the side canyon allowed it to reach the river. If you did not stop, you would get about one minute of it's glorious energy. Had to time baths accordingly. Couldn't always sleep on boats or near shore due to dew, and it was tough to dry stuff out with limited sun. Once you are cold and wet, it isn't always easy to get warm again. The primarily good weather was enjoyable, but it was kinda cold overall. Take the winter gear, but you will still be able to sleep under the stars. Looking back, it wasn't too bad, but it was occasionally trying. I'd go in November again, but with a little more warm weather gear.


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