# Oarlock technical question



## Commo (Jan 18, 2019)

Relative newb here; lots of miles with a canoe paddle, not so many with oars....


I'll try to make this make sense: We picked up a used raft and frame last year, everything worked great on the river except....every few strokes the left oar/oarlock would 'catch' or grab while pushing the oar forward. This could be on a power stroke on just recovering while rowing backwards. 

It didn't seem to matter how high you carried the oar during the stroke, or if the blade was feathered; just sometimes it would catch. You could break through the catch by quickly pushing down or pulling up on the oar handle, or jerking on it one way or the other. 

Couldn't see anything obvious watching the oarlock, the wrap wasn't binding, oarlock doesn't appear bent.



Anyone experienced this? Are we out of adjustment somehow? Maybe a weak weld somewhere allowing flex? Or just bad technique? Didn't do us any harm, but it was a bit disconcerting to have the oar stick as you about to drop into a hole.



Thanks.


dc


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

Do some troubleshooting:

Is the oar shaft grabbing a d-ring or something protruding on the outside of your raft?

Trade left and right oars. Does it still happen or did it move to the right side?

Pull the oar and spin the left oarlock 180° and see if it still grabs--or if it grabs 180° out.

Swap left and right oarlocks--does the right one grab now? (is it an oarlock issue or an oar socket/frame issue?)

Is there corrosion or a burr on the oarlock shaft?

lube the oarlock to socket hole with wax or Dr. bronner's.

My guess is that with it being a used rig, you may have some corrosion between the oarlock shaft and socket and you're getting some "bind" when you load the oar. Pull the oarlock out and polish the shaft with some 300+ grit sandpaper. roll the sandpaper into a tube and smooth up inside the bore of the socket. Use some wax.


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## caverdan (Aug 27, 2004)

I had the keeper ring that is on the bottom of the oar lock yoke do something similar to what you describe. I had put too large of a key ring on it and it bent it and would randomly hang up.


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## Waterdog (Feb 3, 2007)

I had a similar issue once.

Changed up my oarlock springs and washers to be according to this diagram and the right size so the split ring didn't hang up on any of the oar tower.

https://www.nrs.com/frames/stainless_steel_springs_and_washers.asp

Also gave them a good cleaning and lube.

Good luck,


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## GeoRon (Jun 24, 2015)

Wow, why didn't I think of that. It is a common problem of DRE towers. Something I'm well aware of and have pointed out many times and many times I've recommended that the solution and a much better option anyway is the threaded Sawyer oar lock with lock nut. I know that this is just my opinion

Anyway, the DRE cast aluminum tower head in my opinion leans the wrong way and causes this problem when using a large split ring. And a small split ring is small enough to slip up into oar tower. The AAA tower leans the other direction providing proper clearance.

If I remember correctly, which at my age is sometimes a problem, the NRS spring is too tall for some oar towers which is why I have some over there in that drawer. Please correct me if I'm wrong.


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## 50119 (Jan 17, 2016)

Waterdog said:


> I had a similar issue once.
> 
> Changed up my oarlock springs and washers to be according to this diagram and the right size so the split ring didn't hang up on any of the oar tower.
> 
> ...


I threw away all of my split rings (large) due to a proven fact that with enough force they will get sucked right thru the oarlock tube. For some reason during the heat of battle getting set up for the MF this past June, the split rings made it onto my oarlock instead of my pins w/washers. The result of a bad spin the oar blade was "sucked under" the side and it catapulted the oar and lock out which also snapped the 200LB rated oar strap. Oar retrieved but oarlock lost - mayhem with 1-1/4 oar power at the top of Hell's Half Mile. 

The split rings are not strong enough since they always rotate to to the single wire point. To make matters worse, most locks taper down at the pin hole and this allows the start of mis-forming the round ring to get sucked thru easily. 

Here are some photo's of what I use and nylon washers to smooth things out top and bottom. Also I use a small nylon bushing to even out any pressure side to side on the lynch pin.


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## Electric-Mayhem (Jan 19, 2004)

GeoRon said:


> Wow, why didn't I think of that. It is a common problem of DRE towers. Something I'm well aware of and have pointed out many times and many times I've recommended that the solution and a much better option anyway is the threaded Sawyer oar lock with lock nut. I know that this is just my opinion
> 
> Anyway, the DRE cast aluminum tower head in my opinion leans the wrong way and causes this problem when using a large split ring. And a small split ring is small enough to slip up into oar tower. The AAA tower leans the other direction providing proper clearance.
> 
> If I remember correctly, which at my age is sometimes a problem, the NRS spring is too tall for some oar towers which is why I have some over there in that drawer. Please correct me if I'm wrong.


Stop bad mouthing Downriver Ron... that is MNichols job :mrgreen:

I do agree though...I like the Geometry of the AAA towers but I have the DRE ones (and a Welfelt custom made setup that comes with the frame with my Cat that is great). I seem to be in the minority...but AAA treated me in a way that lost my patronage completely...so DRE it is. I haven't had a problem with the split ring get fouled up...but if you go too steep of an angle outward with the angle on the tower, the oar rights and stoppers can rub on the oar tower. 

I've seen a few guys make their own fabricated version of that style tower and I may get around to that eventually too. Sounds like a good "learn to weld aluminum" project after I make a few more sand stakes. I think if I make it...I'll keep the angle but maybe have the rotation point closer to the center of the tower instead of being offset so far to the outside like it is with the DRE tower.

I've had a similar thing happen to what the OP stated when an oarlock shaft gets bent. This can happen if you get shoved into a wall or the oar pops out the wrong way. For that trip (Salt River at medium high flows) I just pulled it out of the tower and used a hammer to make it straight. If you have the standard DRE tower without the bushing...its not a perfectly concentric hole especially after some use...so the bent oarlock rotates ok in direction but might not in another and can get stuck. Pulling up or down might just be moving it into a different spot in the oar tower which would free it. Not 100% that its that...just a possibility to check. The split ring clearance thing sounds like a possibility too....maybe a combo.


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## GeoRon (Jun 24, 2015)

Yea, I didn't think my DRE statement would go unnoticed.

DRE are good towers except that large split rings and clevis pins like chiefstilh20 can be a problem due to a lack of clearance. In fact, I think, they are great towers with bushing option and with threaded lock nut oarlocks. But that is just my opinion.


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## GeoRon (Jun 24, 2015)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Waterdog View Post
I had a similar issue once.

Changed up my oarlock springs and washers to be according to this diagram and the right size so the split ring didn't hang up on any of the oar tower.

https://www.nrs.com/frames/stainless...nd_washers.asp



Chiefstilh20 has photos of a tower that is a case illustrating that NRS springs are not compatible with all towers. You need perhaps over 1.25 inch of exposed oar lock shaft to consider them.


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## Will Amette (Jan 28, 2017)

GeoRon said:


> If I remember correctly, which at my age is sometimes a problem, the NRS spring is too tall for some oar towers which is why I have some over there in that drawer. Please correct me if I'm wrong.





Age didn't get you this time. You are correct. I ordered a set of springs and gave them away. My frame is either a Cambridge or a copy of one. The oarlock hole is too long to allow the use of the springs. My neighbor is using them now.


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## Will Amette (Jan 28, 2017)

chiefstilh20 said:


> I threw away all of my split rings (large) due to a proven fact that with enough force they will get sucked right thru the oarlock tube. For some reason during the heat of battle getting set up for the MF this past June, the split rings made it onto my oarlock instead of my pins w/washers. The result of a bad spin the oar blade was "sucked under" the side and it catapulted the oar and lock out which also snapped the 200LB rated oar strap. Oar retrieved but oarlock lost - mayhem with 1-1/4 oar power at the top of Hell's Half Mile.
> 
> The split rings are not strong enough since they always rotate to to the single wire point. To make matters worse, most locks taper down at the pin hole and this allows the start of mis-forming the round ring to get sucked thru easily.
> 
> Here are some photo's of what I use and nylon washers to smooth things out top and bottom. Also I use a small nylon bushing to even out any pressure side to side on the lynch pin.





OK, well I might put my old pins back in. I worry they will unclip themselves which is why I switched to split rings. I've seen one mangled on a friend's boat, but not sucked through. That would... suck. I did see one of the pins get opened on its own during a flip in GC in 2017. The oarsman didn't use tethers, and while we got the oars back, we had to loan him an oarlock.


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## 50119 (Jan 17, 2016)

Will Amette said:


> OK, well I might put my old pins back in. I worry they will unclip themselves which is why I switched to split rings. I've seen one mangled on a friend's boat, but not sucked through. That would... suck. I did see one of the pins get opened on its own during a flip in GC in 2017. The oarsman didn't use tethers, and while we got the oars back, we had to loan him an oarlock.


Everything has it's pro's & con's. I could cut down my Cobra's to the full diameter, but then the hole for the rings would have to be rather large for split rings. I have clearance on my oar stands for the pin set up, but other towers might not. For added safety I could also use a small cable tie to keep the loop from pivoting off the pin part. Threaded oarlocks could be a solution but then tales more tools and if needed, takes more time to detach.


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## Commo (Jan 18, 2019)

*THANKS*

Thanks for the great feedback. We did swap the oars with no change, so it must be in the oarlock. I confess I don't know what brand it is, but when we dig it out of storage we'll know where to start looking for the problem.

Canoes are simpler....

Thanks again.

dc


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

Commo said:


> Canoes are simpler....
> 
> Thanks again.
> 
> dc



So are pins and clips.... 



Just sayin...


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## caverdan (Aug 27, 2004)

Commo said:


> Thanks for the great feedback. We did swap the oars with no change, so it must be in the oarlock. I confess I don't know what brand it is, but when we dig it out of storage we'll know where to start looking for the problem.
> 
> Canoes are simpler....
> 
> ...


If you can afford it and want to make a big improvement on how your oars work in general, buy a pair of these and your troubles will be over. https://www.downriverequip.com/oars...oars/sawyer-cobra-w-locknut-oar-lock-pid-2576

Make sure to get the ones with the threaded lock nut. It's the best way to go and you won't have to worry about the split ring pulling through the hole. I started off buying one pair to see how well they worked and ended up buying three more pair to outfit the rest of my frames with them.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

caverdan said:


> If you can afford it and want to make a big improvement on how your oars work in general, buy a pair of these and your troubles will be over. https://www.downriverequip.com/oars...oars/sawyer-cobra-w-locknut-oar-lock-pid-2576
> 
> Make sure to get the ones with the threaded lock nut. It's the best way to go and you won't have to worry about the split ring pulling through the hole. I started off buying one pair to see how well they worked and ended up buying three more pair to outfit the rest of my frames with them.


You could have bought a 5/8" fine thread die and some nuts for about $30!
https://www.mcmaster.com/2576a635


https://www.amazon.com/Hard-Find-Fastener-014973285081-Piece-8/dp/B00L1L81NK/


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## Fly By Night (Oct 31, 2018)

A 5/8" die is $10 on Amazon, I checked yesterday because this thread is making me think about modifying my current cobras for lynch pins or lock nuts.


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## Pickle-D (May 6, 2009)

Split rings and pins pulled through the oar mount? What are you doing? Seriously what situation leads to that? 



Maybe pry those oar locks open a bit more so the oar will pop out. Any reasonable oarsman practices maneuvering with a loose oar.


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

Fly By Night said:


> A 5/8" die is $10 on Amazon, I checked yesterday because this thread is making me think about modifying my current cobras for lynch pins or lock nuts.



Lock nuts are the way to go, put a delrin washer between the nut and the oarstand for super slick strokes, for that matter you can drill out your oarlock stands and put Delrin bushings in there too, makes a heck of a difference in the friction between the bronze and whatever the oar stand material is.


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

Pickle-D said:


> Split rings and pins pulled through the oar mount? What are you doing? Seriously what situation leads to that?
> 
> Maybe pry those oar locks open a bit more so the oar will pop out. Any reasonable oarsman practices maneuvering with a loose oar.



I've seen it more than once, usually after a flip and long recovery..


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## GeoRon (Jun 24, 2015)

chiefstilh20 said:


> Threaded oarlocks could be a solution but then tat entailes more tools and if needed, takes more time to detach.


Actually chief, no more than the usual tools when on the river if pliers can be considered a usual tool. All ya gotta do...... is bite down on the nut with the pliers and then use a standard driftwood stick of appropriate diameter to spin the oarlock. Ya, I have to admit, finding driftwood of proper specifications on some rivers like in the GC can be a problem.

I like your spacer idea on your lynch pin to even up the two sides beneath your delrin washer.


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## caverdan (Aug 27, 2004)

MT4Runner said:


> You could have bought a 5/8" fine thread die and some nuts for about $30!
> https://www.mcmaster.com/2576a635
> 
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Hard-Find-Fastener-014973285081-Piece-8/dp/B00L1L81NK/


MT4Runner.....the point is to buy the correct thing in the first place and save the time and expense of having to modifying it. :mrgreen:

The nut in your link is too thick. Make sure you buy the thinnest nut possible so when you thread it on, one full round of the threads show through the end of the nut. A nut like this is what your after.
https://www.amazon.com/Hard-Find-Fa...1aa-413d-a472-f91ff28acf82&pd_rd_w=TIUxH&pd_r


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

I don't disagree with getting a thinner nut for weight and ease of install, particularly when more threads engaged make little difference in this application...but depending on your oar tower/lock configuration a taller nut could still fit, no? [/splittinghairs]


If I thread oarlocks, I'll use the thinner nuts you linked, thanks!

Here's an even better deal!
https://www.amazon.com/8-18-Thin-Nylock-Nylon-Insert/dp/B07QVHL9FZ/


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## SherpaDave (Dec 28, 2017)

Waterdog said:


> I had a similar issue once.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Gee - All this time I’ve put the washers on either side of the spring. I never thought to put a washer between the oar lock & tower.


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## SherpaDave (Dec 28, 2017)

caverdan said:


> Make sure to get the ones with the threaded lock nut. It's the best way to go and you won't have to worry about the split ring pulling through the hole. I started off buying one pair to see how well they worked and ended up buying three more pair to outfit the rest of my frames with them.



After putting it on a frame I’ve used these ever since, including when I’ve built a frame for others. Still waiting for someone to decide they didn’t like it so I could swap for one of my other style.


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## caverdan (Aug 27, 2004)

MT4Runner said:


> I don't disagree with getting a thinner nut for weight and ease of install, particularly when more threads engaged make little difference in this application...but depending on your oar tower/lock configuration a taller nut could still fit, no? [/splittinghairs]


If this were true....Cobra would sell a thick nut with their oar locks instead of a thin one....:mrgreen::mrgreen::mrgreen:

Seriously, it does depend on your set up. None of mine would accommodate a thicker nut......but I've been called one before.


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## GeoRon (Jun 24, 2015)

The tower photos of chiefstilh20 show a tower that requires narrow nut. DRE, AAA and NRS can use fat nuts.


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## B4otter (Apr 20, 2009)

No comment on fat nuts...
If oarlock shaft doesn't protrude enough through the socket of the tower you can always shorten the spring ... think I just scored mine with a hacksaw and used a pair of dikes. I've used the springs and washers on Cobras and on my own SS locks, they seem to help eliminate the squeak problem (along with bicycle chain lube or beeswax, my two favorite eliminators).
Bushings: I had aout 1000 miles on a pair of stands and 'locks when I noticed some slop before a trip. Didn't seem significant and I went ahead and ran 'em but had to lube 'em just about every day to keep the squeaks away. Got home and drilled out the stands (just put in a vise and used a 1/2" drill with 13/16 bit, would have been straighter/better plumb hole on a drill press but I was too lazy to figure out how to clamp the stand properly). Put in Delrin bushings and several thousand miles later still no slop, plus they don't squeak - ever. Have used UHMW bushings on another setup, also work perfectly.


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

B4otter said:


> No comment on fat nuts...
> ... think I just scored mine with a hacksaw and used a pair of dikes.



This is probably one of those questions better left un asked, but I can't help myself!!!!


How did 2 lesbians factor into cutting the spring? 

Are they particularly knowledgeable about oarlock geometry due to their sexual orientation? 



Inquiring minds and all !!:roll:


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## Will Amette (Jan 28, 2017)

Dikes = diagonal cutters.


The potentially offensive term for lesbians is spelled with a Y. At least I think it is.


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

Will Amette said:


> Dikes = diagonal cutters.
> 
> 
> The potentially offensive term for lesbians is spelled with a Y. At least I think it is.



Ahhh, I've always called diagonal cutting pliers, "Diagonal Cutting Pliers", or side cutters. 



There's a motorcycle club on the front range that proudly calls themselves Dikes on Bikes, or perhaps ***** on Bikes. Have to be lesbian to join. Wonderful club that supports so many local things for the kiddo's. 



I wasn't aware it was potentially offensive, but in this era of the left wanting everything to be politically correct, it wouldn't surprise me. 



I just found out the other day, that apparently it's now considered "rude" to ask the parents of a kid on a leash if it was a rescue....


I need to get my happy ass on a river, and SOON..


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## GeoRon (Jun 24, 2015)

Below is a photo that illustrates the problem that DRE towers have in association with large split rings. Notice the split ring on the oar lock to the right edge of the photo and that it may bind/impinge on the tower. 

I think it was universally decided that threaded oarlocks are the way to go.

Just saying.


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