# Grand canyon closed?



## boogercookie (Feb 18, 2011)

I just got this through the PDX kayaker yahoo group. 

"Can anyone confirm reports that people trying to launch at Lee's Ferry are being turned away because of the government shutdown? "


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## Learch (Jul 12, 2010)

Yup, threads are started already on here, it's pretty well documented


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## boogercookie (Feb 18, 2011)

Just thinking is the federal govt is shit down and people aren't coming to work, does that mean permit anarchy? Show and go? Maybe wishful thinking, but there has to be a bright side to the silliness in DC


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## smauk2 (Jun 24, 2009)

No people who have permits are being denied by National Park Service...


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## lmyers (Jun 10, 2008)

http://www.mountainbuzz.com/forums/f41/oct-1-grand-launches-at-risk-50459.html

http://www.mountainbuzz.com/forums/...yon-during-the-government-shutdown-50562.html

http://www.mountainbuzz.com/forums/...-impasse-affect-launches-on-the-gc-50519.html

Enough reading on the topic to keep you busy all morning, didn't even have to use the search function....


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## k2andcannoli (Feb 28, 2012)

Who the hell uses yahoo groups anymore


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## Learch (Jul 12, 2010)

Fox news has a top of the page story about it, (I was surprised) Arizona's governor is working to get it re-opened. I re-read my post, sorry I sounded like an ass. I was trying to be helpful, that yes there is information about the closure on the Buzz. It's pretty upsetting to hear about people's dreams getting squashed. I think I'd be finding a new launch at all cost. Frankly, to me the reward would be worth the risk. Sorry to all that are affected by the Closures everywhere in the USA. Sad time here in the ole USA.


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## restrac2000 (Mar 6, 2008)

Nothing like Fox spin "With the partial suspension of U.S. government services showing no signs of ending, tourists will continue to be turned away from the Grand Canyon, despite a push by Arizona Gov. Jan Brewer and local businesses to reopen the state's signature national park." She sounds like an undaunted hero in this when just a day or two ago she claimed it wasn't a priority. 

But just so folks know....when the AZ and private individuals funded GCNP in 1995 it was just a limited section of the park on the south rim, from the sounds of it to Mather Point. I for one don't think the state should be funding the NPS but if you disagree than Tom had the contact information and was calling for letters in another thread. He has been working on it all week.

Best of luck.

Phillip


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## yetigonecrazy (May 23, 2005)

lmyers said:


> http://www.mountainbuzz.com/forums/f41/oct-1-grand-launches-at-risk-50459.html
> 
> http://www.mountainbuzz.com/forums/...yon-during-the-government-shutdown-50562.html
> 
> ...


Nice.

THREE posts and this question still pops up.....


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## tew (Oct 20, 2004)

Interesting to note that during the 1995 gov't shutdown the GC remained open to boaters......Is there any possibility that the politicians are trying to create pain and anger????


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## Dave Frank (Oct 14, 2003)

tew said:


> Interesting to note that during the 1995 gov't shutdown the GC remained open to boaters......Is there any possibility that the politicians are trying to create pain and anger????


My thoughts exactly


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## restrac2000 (Mar 6, 2008)

tew said:


> Interesting to note that during the 1995 gov't shutdown the GC remained open to boaters......Is there any possibility that the politicians are trying to create pain and anger????


Can someone verify that statement? Goes against what I understand about the 1995 bailout of the park by the govenor and private parties (who were paid back by the feds for their investment). I haven't found any evidence that anything other than the South Rim was opened. 

If it was than it is odd that the park service changed policy to make it harder for rafters. If that is the case than heads need to roll within the NPS and Dept. of Interior after this is over.

Phillip


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## tew (Oct 20, 2004)

It seem that I miss spoke.... you are correct regarding the S rim I can't locate the info regarding boating in 1995. Regardless park superintendents previously were aloud to work with local states to minimize impact and open portions of the parks. In this case park supers in multiple states are unwilling to entertain these efforts. I think that they may have been directed to resist local overchures to bridge gaps and minimize economic impacts by the federal gov't. This conclusion is reached by the deviation from previous behavior and a different government.


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## restrac2000 (Mar 6, 2008)

yeah Rich P stated that the super at GCNP was commanded not to go to the upcoming meeting (though that may be more about legality of furlough).


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## GCPBA (Oct 22, 2009)

GCPBA RiverNews 10-5-13 - Stay Tuned: GCNP To Make Announcement Soon Concerning Status of Already Permitted River Trips Currently Unable To Launch

In a Saturday conversation with GCNP Superintendent David Uberuaga and GCNP River District Ranger Brian Bloom GCPBA learned today the Park intends to make a public statement early next week concerning the status of river trips at the Ferry currently unable to launch due to the shutdown of the Federal government.


There is no provision being considered to launch river trips before the shutdown comes to an end.


The Superintendent and Ranger Bloom have spoken with both GCPBA and the commercial outfitters seeking a fair solution as to how best accommodate river runners currently unable to launch, or who may be unable to launch later due to the continuing shutdown. 


River runners are not alone in their Grand Canyon distress. Supt. Uberuaga reported that there are more than 2,000 NPS and concessions employees at the South Rim currently out of work. 


People holding river permits will be contacted directly by the NPS outlining a series of options permit holders will have to resolve the unfortunate consequences of the shutdown.


GCPBA thanks very much the Superintendent and Ranger Bloom for working with us in their efforts to craft a fair solution to a difficult problem and for reaching out to the river community, both non-commercial and commercial. Thanks very much to the river outfitters for their cooperation in working for a solution.


When exact details become available, we'll report on the Park's proposed solution.


For GCPBA: Richard "Ricardo" Martin and the GCPBA news staff


_GCPBA Newswire and RiverNewsNotes are a service of Grand Canyon Private Boaters Association - the leading voice for non-commercial Canyon river runners since 1996 - www.gcpba.org_


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## shappattack (Jul 17, 2008)

GCPBA said:


> River runners are not alone in their Grand Canyon distress. Supt. Uberuaga reported that there are more than 2,000 NPS and concessions employees at the South Rim currently out of work[/URL][/I][/FONT][/COLOR][/FONT][/COLOR]


What a slap in the face type statement. Those employees are 99.9% likely to get back pay after the shut down. If you already spent thousands of your own dollars to get ready for a trip that can't happen again any time soon, how does the private vacationer get compensated? Supt. Uberuaga can kiss my ass.


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## mania (Oct 21, 2003)

concessions employees are not going to get back pay. guessing that accounts for the majority.


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## JonasJ (Nov 10, 2006)

It's too bad the people wanting to launch can't privately fund the check in rangers pay. The amount of trips per day/ranger $$ wouldn't amount to much more and would cost less than canceling a trip.


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## BilloutWest (Jan 25, 2013)

JonasJ said:


> It's too bad the people wanting to launch can't privately fund the check in rangers pay. The amount of trips per day/ranger $$ wouldn't amount to much more and would cost less than canceling a trip.


That is not part of the equation here.

The current political formula by the administration is to apply as many restrictions as possible so that voters complain to congress.

The Park Service has not only tried to shut down open air war memorials in DC but an 1,100 square-mile wide area of open ocean off Florida's West Coast. They have Rangers out in boats trying to keep others out. This is a lot different than just controlling Lee's Ferry access.

This has to be an eye opener for those in the Park Service and military.

Clinton did negotiate with Congress in keeping parts of the government open.

Troops Forage for Food While Golfers Play On in Shutdown - Bloomberg


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## BilloutWest (Jan 25, 2013)

mania said:


> concessions employees are not going to get back pay. guessing that accounts for the majority.





> In Grand Canyon National Park, 438 government employees are on furlough and approximately 1,400 concessions employees are affected.


I believe all of the NP employees will receiver full wages from their furloughed time. None of the Concession employees, (76% of the total) will.


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## rivers2run (Jun 7, 2012)

There is no grand conspiracy to inflict special pain. The Forest Service is allowing their concessionaires to operate, NPS is not. The agencies get general direction for shutdown and they interpret it and so there is some variation in the way the rules are created and applied. The agencies have to make these decisions rapidly and they can't think of every detail and every contingency. so they make some bad calls. If they let the private rafters go what about the commercials, if they let the commercials go what about the concessions that have mules, once you open that box where does it end. Xanterra is breathing down their necks right now so how do you make a call for some and not for all? Sadly you wind up with a one size fits all decision that is terrible. I am retired FS and went through a few shutdowns it is not what you think the agencies make decisions based on some more general guidelines, as a result you get some variation. No one in Department of Interior has intimate knowledge of every agency and what they do.


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## BilloutWest (Jan 25, 2013)

rivers2run said:


> There is no grand conspiracy to inflict special pain. The Forest Service is allowing their concessionaires to operate, NPS is not. The agencies get general direction for shutdown and they interpret it and so there is some variation in the way the rules are created and applied. The agencies have to make these decisions rapidly and they can't think of every detail and every contingency. so they make some bad calls. If they let the private rafters go what about the commercials, if they let the commercials go what about the concessions that have mules, once you open that box where does it end. Xanterra is breathing down their necks right now so how do you make a call for some and not for all? Sadly you wind up with a one size fits all decision that is terrible. I am retired FS and went through a few shutdowns it is not what you think the agencies make decisions based on some more general guidelines, as a result you get some variation. No one in Department of Interior has intimate knowledge of every agency and what they do.


The FS being open for concessionaires may not be true much longer:



> The shutdown of the federal government is expanding to include privately run campgrounds in national forests across the country, a spokesman for the U.S. Forest Service said late Thursday.
> 
> “We are in the process of shutting these operations down at facilities across the country due to the lapse in funding,” wrote spokesman Leo Kay in an e-mail. “Some closures have already taken place while others are still in progress.”


The Contingency Plan for Agency Close Down Procedures for the USFS does not address this.
http://www.usda.gov/documents/usda-fs-shutdown-plan.pdf


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## rivers2run (Jun 7, 2012)

Multnomah Falls Lodge is open as it Timberline according to this article. Government shutdown: U.S. Forest Service, national parks close recreation sites, though some remain open | OregonLive.com


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## Tom Martin (Dec 5, 2004)

*This just in fro Grand Canyon National Park*

*Grand Canyon National Park announces plan to accommodate river permit holders once government re-opens*

*Grand Canyon, Ariz*. – The National Park Service at Grand Canyon National Park announced today that all river permit holders who were denied their scheduled launch due to the government shutdown will receive a refund for permit fees. 
River permit holders will also be entitled to reschedule for a Colorado River trip with their choice of dates in 2013, 2014, 2015 or 2016. The permit holder will be required to submit their choices within 60 days of the government reopening. No more than three launches will be permitted in a day and the new trip must adhere to the trip length of the chosen season.
Permittees who had launch dates three days prior to opening and including opening day, may choose to get a refund for permit fees and reschedule with the same parameters as outlined above or launch after opening. The maximum number of launches will be adjusted to four per day for the first two days after opening. After that, the maximum will be three launches per day until the backlog has been cleared. River permit holders with the current launch date will have priority to launch on their scheduled date.
Commercial river companies that have scheduled launches during the government shutdown will be able to carry over lost user days that occurred under the government shutdown in the 2014 season. A user day is equal to one passenger on the river over the period of one day. Therefore, if a company was to launch with 10 passengers for 10 days, they’ll be able to carry over 100 user days in the 2014 season.
Twenty-one private river launches and six commercial launches were scheduled over the first two weeks in October. 
“The Park worked closely with affected parties to develop this plan, and I appreciate their understanding and support,” stated Park Superintendent Dave Uberuaga. 
Details will be sent to each river permit holder outlining the options in the plan and any priority each may have. 
The Park is also looking at options for other permit holders, and will provide information on any options it may offer in the near future. 
-NPS-​ Public Affairs Office
Grand Canyon National Park
Public Affairs Officer Maureen Oltrogge
928-638-7779


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## David Miller (May 23, 2010)

*Park Service OKs immigration reform rally on 'closed' National Mall*

￼￼Park Service OKs immigration reform rally
on 'closed' National Mall


BY CHARLIE SPIERING | OCTOBER 7, 2013 AT 2:06 PM


A planned immigration reform rally will take place on the National Mall on Tuesday even though the site is closed due to the government shutdown.
Organizers for the "Camino Americano: March for Immigration Reform" were spotted Monday setting up a stage and equipment on the National Mall for the rally which will take place on Tuesday.
A few scattered barriers around the park have signs informing visitors that the area is closed as a result of the government shutdown.
Susana Flores, a spokesperson for the rally, confirmed for the Washington Examiner that the Park Service will allow the event to take place under the group's rights granted by the First Amendment.
About 30 members of Congress are expected to attend the rally, including House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., and Sen. Robert Menendez, D- N.J.
The event is hosted by several immigration activist groups, together with the Service Employees International Union (SEIU) and the AFL-CIO.


Web URL: Park Service OKs immigration reform rally on 'closed' National Mall | WashingtonExaminer.com


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