# The honest truth



## smauk2 (Jun 24, 2009)

Wave Sport Siren
Perception Shock
Necky Jive

Those boats look terrible.


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## Favre (Nov 17, 2010)

Most would consider those obsolete by today's standards. If you are looking to get into whitewater, try to find a more modern design. I personally wouldn't even pay $50 for one of those designs as they are all terrible. How much are you looking to spend? If you can put 200-300$ towards a boat, I bet you can find something better..


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## glenn (May 13, 2009)

The jive isn't that different from a RPM which still has a strong following, and the siren is a a cool boat for girls. The shock doesn't look that good to me but someone probably loves it. For a first boat you need something that you can learn the basics in. Eddy turns, peel outs, rolls, setting a ferry angle, strokes. All 3 of these boats will do this. However, when you want to try to start play boating, running harder whitewater, particularly creeks, or both these kayaks will start to be limiting. 

If you want to try the sport out and these are more affordable and available to you then it's a good fit for you. If you can afford and can access say a Jackson fun, a Wavesport EZG, or a Dagger Crazy 88, they will go a little bit further in your whitewater career.


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## mcnew77 (Jan 8, 2011)

See i live in an area that dosent sell any good kayaks and all shipping i have seen is reedick expensive so i feel limited. i am a poor college boy so im just trying to find something i can afford. i was going to get a dagger gt 7.8 but shipping it was obsurd so im just throwing out whatever is for sale in my area, what about a RIOT DOMINATRIX 44? also whats the cheapest way to ship a kayak?


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## renkenken (Mar 15, 2010)

hey man i live in alabama as well check out coosa outfitters in gadsden. they have good deals on boats new or used... or if u could find one in a near by state with someone willing to meet u in the middle...


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## mcnew77 (Jan 8, 2011)

yea im actualling talkin to that shop, but im afraid shops are goin to clear my bank and im only two and half hours from chattanooga


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## Favre (Nov 17, 2010)

It's important to know what size of boat you are looking for. For example, if you are the size of an average adult male, you will probably be too big for the Wave Sport Siren. Also you might want to narrow your list down to a type of whitewater boat.

Do you want a creekboat that has lots of volume and makes challenging whitewater easier? Do you want a playboat to do tricks and cartwheels in (but limits the difficulty of whitewater you can paddle)? Do you want something that can do a little of both?


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## fatbob (Apr 11, 2008)

check out boatertalk.com
there's lots of used boats from eastcoast and south sold there.


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## mcnew77 (Jan 8, 2011)

yea the siren is out, but i just dont know which id like better playboating or creeking, so idk what to do, i love the occoee and rapids but since im not around that that much and i live near dams i thought playboating might be better idk


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## Favre (Nov 17, 2010)

Mcnew -

I hope I didn't make things more confusing for you. Unfortunately most of the boats you listed (including the Dominatrix) aren't very good in my opinion. You might like a boat that can run decent whitewater (up to class 3 or 4) that also plays well (surfs, spins, squirts.) Examples of these boats that you might find cheap used are listed below.

Jackson Fun or 4Fun
Wave Sport BigEZ, EZ, or EZG
the Dagger GT might be good, but you want to make sure it fits your size.
also maybe the Dagger Vertigo, Ego, or Centrifuge.
Necky Jive or Gliss.

continue to post your options here and I bet you'll find a great boat for you! Good luck, and hopefully we can help you find your match.


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## mcnew77 (Jan 8, 2011)

ok fat bob u are my hero. ive been looking for a kayak now for 3 months and its been a horrid experience so im glad to for the help with that website,and now i have found some more kayak options. 1. Liquid logic cross river 250 2. wavesport x 3. pyranha inazone 222 4. liquid logic bigwheel 5. dagger ego if u no bout them give me an opinion


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## mcnew77 (Jan 8, 2011)

ok add these three to the list 1. wavesport evo 2. Jackson Fun 3. Necky vine


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## Favre (Nov 17, 2010)

In my opinion with what you've listed, the Jackson Fun is the best design.

The Wave Sport X might be worth considering too.

What is your height and weight? Both work well for average size adult males (not much over six feet or 190 lbs)


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## mcnew77 (Jan 8, 2011)

im 5'8 165


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## Favre (Nov 17, 2010)

You are a perfect size to be a kayaker.

My recommendation - Go with the Jackson Fun. It's more of a modern design and those boats are comfortable and perform really well. If it's too expensive the Wave Sport X or Dagger Ego might be good options.


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## mcnew77 (Jan 8, 2011)

which one of those would be the best in between boat for creek and playboat? also how good is the dagger cfs?


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## glenn (May 13, 2009)

The fun will be a good starting play boat and an excellent beginning downriver boat. The X is probably the best creeking option, but it's not a strong one. The fun should see you through class IV water, and by that point you can decide what you are more interested in. Hopefully both!


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## gh (Oct 13, 2003)

Out of those options, pick the fun.


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## adgeiser (May 26, 2009)

spring break is coming fast. it is pretty easy to find someone here on the buzz to help transport a boat. just post on here and then meet them along their route. should cost around $50-$100 (gas and food money for us starving dirtbag boaters)


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## mcnew77 (Jan 8, 2011)

ok i just want to thank you guys for all this help its truely appreciated, but sad news is the fun is sold called oday and its gone so sadly the most suggested from yall is a no. this are my current options as follows
1. Dagger G-Force (Maybe)
2.Dagger cfs
3.Pyranha Inazone 222
4.Wavesport X
5.Necky Vibe
6.Liquid Logic Big Wheel


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## glenn (May 13, 2009)

G-Force
CFS
Vibe
X
Inazone
Big Wheel

In that order. Just my opinion though.


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## gh (Oct 13, 2003)

glenn said:


> G-Force
> CFS
> Vibe
> X
> ...


ditto


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## fatbob (Apr 11, 2008)

the big wheel was before it's time!! great boat, modern playboat design.


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## Phil U. (Feb 7, 2009)

smauk2 said:


> Wave Sport Siren
> Perception Shock
> Necky Jive
> 
> Those boats look terrible.


Interesting how times, and boats, change. All 3 of these boats were very good boats in their day. The Siren was a woman's boat but I remember watching Dan Gavere throw down in one. The Jive was really a good playboat. Great wave surfer with good hull speed and a really slippery hull. A good river runner that was perfect for the big green waves of the Kennebec Gorge in Maine where I saw it paddled a lot. Definitely the next generation with a planing hull after the displacement hull RPM. 

A little history... The Shock was designed by Shane Bennedict when he was with Perception in the heyday of new boat designs at the turn of the century. Its no modern looper but ends and Blunts in it were sweet. Its the smaller version of the AMP and came out just before the Worlds of 2001 in Sort, Spain. Shane had been coaching/teaching at Adventure Quest and the entire? US junior Worlds team had trained with him. Pat Keller, Jesse Murphy, Marlow Long and BV's Dustin Urban all paddled for Perception and competed in the Shock. The Tricky Whu was one of the new moves and the US Juniors had it more dialed than most all of the Men competing. Marlow, Jesse and Dustin made Finals with Jesse winning and Dustin taking the Silver. Bryan Kirk now of WS paddled the AMP to a Bronze medal at his first Worlds. I believe Barry Kennon and Chris Manderson both C-1ed the AMP with Barry winning the Gold and Mando medaling but I can't remember where he stood on the podium. Few have ever C-1ed at the level those guys were. The boat hardly sucked.

Of the latest list, I agree that the G-Force is your best choice.

P.


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## afaust (Jun 14, 2010)

Keep looking for a Fun... they live up to their name and are super easy to learn in not to mention VERY comfortable. If you need a do it all boat this is about as close as it gets. They are frequently for sale on mountainbuzz.com and boatertalk.com. Also check your local craigslist.org and all the Craigslist.org listings within a couple of hours from your house. Most people will meet you halfway. Worst case scenario I have one that I can part with as a last resort.


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## Alphacyber (Mar 18, 2010)

Demo if you can! (like how i've demoed afaust's Fun at pool sessions)


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## mcnew77 (Jan 8, 2011)

ok so hear is my delima, i can get the g-force with a helmet and a skirt for 310 but its 3and half hours away, or a dagger cfs with the helmet and skirt for 250 and its only 2 hours away, both are in great shape and have snap dragon skirts, is it worth the extra money from a poor college kid and get the zone or just get the more in my price range cfs?


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## afaust (Jun 14, 2010)

Sounds like a personal decision on the finance thing... we don't know anything about your rent, food, and other needs.

As far as the boats go. If you want to do more playboating then go get the G-force because the Cfs is all creek boat all the time. Alternatively if you want to do more creeking than playboating definitely go with the CFS.

Either boat will be fun. Either boat will get you down most class III rivers just fine. You will not have this boat forever if you really get into the sport. The drive you only have to do once the boat you will be learning the sport in so... One additional hour and $60 isn't that bad if your goal is to play. You will have a steeper learning curve with the G-force and likely become a better boater faster in terms of edge control and rolling.

That being said the CFS will probably be more user friendly right away and make more difficult whitewater seem somewhat easier.

In the end it is up to you.


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## afaust (Jun 14, 2010)

Check for cracks around the bolts and the bottom of the boat where the seat is on both boats. Older Daggers are notorious for their cracks in those areas.


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## mcnew77 (Jan 8, 2011)

thats what i need to hear thanks!


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## glenn (May 13, 2009)

Get the G-Force. The price difference is small the drive is inconsequential. The G-Force will make you a better boater it will be more entertaining to paddle, and your first year you won't do any real creeking, but you could very easily do some playing. 

As a river runner for III-IV the G-Force is sufficient and the CFS will let you get away with more bad technique. You want to start on the right foot with technique. Get the play boat, have fun in some waves, and get a creeker later when you are ready.


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## afaust (Jun 14, 2010)

glenn said:


> Get the G-Force. The price difference is small the drive is inconsequential. The G-Force will make you a better boater it will be more entertaining to paddle, and your first year you won't do any real creeking, but you could very easily do some playing.
> 
> As a river runner for III-IV the G-Force is sufficient and the CFS will let you get away with more bad technique. You want to start on the right foot with technique. Get the play boat, have fun in some waves, and get a creeker later when you are ready.


Second vote for the G-force


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## Phil U. (Feb 7, 2009)

Another G-Force vote. As a creeker the CFS is more likely to be beat up/used up.


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## craporadon (Feb 27, 2006)

I think I would go Pyrana Inazone. The G-force is super short so it may be a tough first boat and may discourage you from kayaking more. The inazone can do most basic playboating and can also run rivers.


Truly the best thing to do is this: buy a Stand Up Paddleboard and the cfs. Then you will already be a fully evolved riverman right off the bat. You can creek all the stuff in N Alabama in the cfs, and then SUP the easier rivers around as well as the lakes around you and the ocean. There is not a whole lot of reason to have a playboat anymore now that there are SUP's. However you need a creekboat b/c creekboating is the most badass sport on the planet.


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## blutzski (Mar 31, 2004)

Don't get the CFS as your only boat. I have one for creeking and it's a potato. Great for super steep, low volume mank but terrible for river running. 

I second the Inazone as a great all-around boat. G-Force would be my next choice, but it may have a steeper learning curve and not be as versatile. (check on the size of the inazone though, i'm not sure of the weight range for the 222)

Oh and the Wavesport X is extremely uncomfortable (160lbs 6'0"). Decent river runner but I could not bear sitting in it all day.


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## GorillaBoofin (Sep 4, 2009)

Check out Alabamawhitewater.com . Get on there and check out the forum, everything you will ever need to know about boating in bama you can find on there, including all the gear you need. everyone is super friendly and im sure will be more than willing to help you out. I am from alabama originally, the boating scene is great there. Good Luck


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## ckspaddler (Sep 25, 2008)

People learn how to kayak in about every boat out there. Get the boat that best fits your budget and what you think you want to paddle. Realistically you will not be paddling steep creeks your first year out on the water, but you will be getting on class 2 and 3 water and eventually wanting to play. Both the G-Force and the Inazone are great boats. The G-Force is going to be slower downriver, but its going to allow you to grow into playboating. You might even want to keep the G-Force as your playboat for awhile after you get comfortable paddling. It was a great playboat for its time. The Inazone is going to give you more river-running ability, but you will eventually want something a little sportier so you can have some fun playing on the river.


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## mcnew77 (Jan 8, 2011)

so i got the dagger g-force and freakin love it, i took out already and it fits perfect and is a blast. thanks yall for real for all yalls advice its great to hear an honest opinnion and i apreciate all yalls help, Thanks!


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## Favre (Nov 17, 2010)

Great to hear!

One warning - prepare to be addicted.. Once this happens every bit of free time and every disposable cent you earn will somehow go towards kayaking. My guess is you'll choose to upgrade or purchase another boat down the road.

Have fun!


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