# paddling with / post Bulging disc



## deepsouthpaddler (Apr 14, 2004)

I had a back injury in late 2012. Compressed a disk, and it kicked my ass. I'd recommend PT ASAP. I'm still not back to normal pre-injury, but I can paddle and snowboard. Main thing is changing the way you move your body in all aspects of life to protect your back.

As for what I did paddling to not aggrivate it... much of it is movement and posture awareness. Its really easy to curve your back and bend down to pick up a 50+ lb creekboat without thinking. I now do more of the lift with the legs and conciously engage abs to protect my back with all of these types of moves (unloading and loading boats, portaging etc). Other big deal for me was not getting sloppy when paddling and slouching and loosening abs, which works your lower back too hard. Sitting down in the kayak for entended periods hurt my back, so I took every chance I could to get out and scout (whether I needed to or not to run the rapid) so that I could stretch my back and get out of the back compression position while sitting.

I'd take a back injury very seriously as it relates to kayaking. Something that seems minor now could fester for years and get progressively worse. Keeping your core strong and really engaging your abs purposefully with every move you make is the best back injury prevention in my opinion. That... and not doing movements that will put your back at risk.

After having my back injury and going to PT, and am now hyperaware of what can put your back at risk, and I am continually blown away by the shit people do at gyms working out that looks like a back injury waiting to happen. You might also want to change your workout habits to take out any types of exercise that put heavy loads on your back while it is bent or twisted. 

My PT guy basically told me that 90% of the stuff I was doing for back exercise and stretching was wrong and putting too much strain on my back... and he had data and scientific papers to support it. He noted that many of the people he sees with wrecked backs come from the gym, or are personal trainers who go too hard on their backs.


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## jimr (Sep 8, 2007)

PT for the rest of your life, staying fit and keeping your core strong is huge... Been suffering for 10 years off and on. My buddy is a surgeon at ucla says to avoid surgery at all costs if PT can get ya feeling good again and then like i said above keep fit and your core strong. If you get surgery you will be getting it again in 5-10years.


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## streetdoctor (May 11, 2012)

Been doing pt for 2 months, always focused on si joint though. doing core stuff now


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## ENDOMADNESS (Jun 21, 2005)

I ruptured a disk a few years ago last few days of skiing. Shooting psciatic pain down the leg and went really bad (lying on floor screaming) after some dry needling. Now it is part of my life. Every morning i wake up to do core exercises for 30 minutes (and pushup/pull ups). 

I also am aware of every bending / twisting motion i make. Core is engaged all the time.

I have had 2 epidural steroid injections and with the daily routine i can get by doing what i love (biking, skiing, kayak/raft/ running). MTB season is by far the worst. after climbing for 30 minutes i need to get outta the saddle continuously (at least my upper body is strong !!). On a road bike i have no pain. It is due to the small undulations inherent in climbing on a MTB.

You will be fine....but need to be diligent, as to avoid surgery.


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## streetdoctor (May 11, 2012)

I'm going to do everything I can to avoid surgery, from what I can tell I don't have a herniation as the bulge in the photo looks to still have a good amount of cartilage that hasn't "opened" into the nerve space. I'd post a photo here but the images won't load on a mac. I hear the official word tomorrow and I'll post results.


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## streetdoctor (May 11, 2012)

ENDOMADNESS said:


> I ruptured a disk a few years ago last few days of skiing. Shooting psciatic pain down the leg and went really bad (lying on floor screaming) after some dry needling. Now it is part of my life. Every morning i wake up to do core exercises for 30 minutes (and pushup/pull ups).
> 
> I also am aware of every bending / twisting motion i make. Core is engaged all the time.
> 
> ...


talk to me about the injections? Up until the MRI my doc was ready to inject my SI because I'm pain free until I climb/mtb/etc. then there's a lot of soreness. I've been doing PT once a week for 2 months for it. After the MRI I'm convinced it's actually nerve pain from my L5/S1. I haven't read a lot of positive results from the injections thus far.


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## td (Apr 7, 2005)

Had a bulging disc a few years ago and had great results with acupuncture. I've tried acupuncture for other injuries since with mixed results (good for carpal tunnel, mixed for rotator cuff inflammation, didn't do much for knee and hip injuries), but my back has been 100% for a couple years now- I go back once in a while if I feel things start to get tight, but its been over a year since I've needed treatment. PT worked great for the shoulder and hip injuries, would definitely recommend that as well.


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## streetdoctor (May 11, 2012)

any PT recommendations for the front range are welcome also. Going to boulder center for sports medicine now but I feel like my PT isn't doing much. Might shop around and get a 2nd or 3rd opinion on treatment soon.


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## jtnc (Aug 9, 2004)

My comment after having had ~15 years or so of off and on back pain that finally ended up in a ruptured disc at L5/S1 is keep your core (abs & back) strong. Exercise, excercise, exercise. Even when it feels fine. I still have troubles with that one. I think that if I'd been more diligent in exercising all along, I wouldn't have ended up with a ruptured disc followed by surgery.

I never had what I'd call massive shooting pain. At worst I'd feel my back grab and all strength disappear with a surge of pain. With that it'd be dull pain for a longer period of time. I'd also get
sciatica pain that I'd describe as if someone had punched me in the butt. It eventually gave out on the Royal Gorge and resulted in me not being able to lift my boat out of the water at the end. The following week I couldn't lift my right heel off the ground. The kicker was when I lost sensation in my right toes and the MRI turned up a photo showing half my canal was filled with disc material at L5/S1. PT and drugs hadn't done anything to help so it was off to the surgeon.

While I still think surgery was a success, unless I keep up on exercising by core at least 3-4 times a week (and kayaking sadly does *not* count), I have some amount of low grade pain. That said, the only sport I haven't been able to get back to is road biking, but I think a few bike geometry fixes could help that. But I'd call ~92 days of paddling class III/IV+ whitewater 1.5 years later as not too bad. Sadly my playboating ability sucks even more than it did before!

PT wise, if in Fort Collins, I've had good luck with Performance Physical Therapy for both shoulder and back issues. 

Regardless good luck and take care of it. The other thing I'll throw out that I found very true post surgery and I think could apply for you too. Sitting and laying down is bad for your back. Walk as much as you can each day. They wanted me walking 4 miles/day 4 weeks after surgery. My back would feel so much better after walking a mile or so vs before. This is still true today. If I feel my back getting sore at work, I'll take a break when I can and walk for 15-20 minutes.

And one last parting word of wisdom. If you do get nerve loss (lack of sensation, ability to move in a given direction) visit a doctor to get looked at. My mother put this off too long (nearly half a year) and again while surgery was successful, did end up with permanent nerve damage in one leg.

I'll shut up now.
John


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## Brotorboat (Apr 14, 2009)

TD - Do you live in CO? If so, where did you go for acupuncture?

Everyone else- 

Other than walking, what exercises did/do you find most helpful?


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## td (Apr 7, 2005)

mattywp said:


> TD - Do you live in CO? If so, where did you go for acupuncture?


I'm in Steamboat- Sleeping Giant Acupuncture, there's quite a few other options in town I've heard good things about, not sure what it's like in the rest of the state.


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## streetdoctor (May 11, 2012)

Thanks for all the replies so far. I'm treating this very seriously. I'm a firefighter/paramedic by profession… I need my back for another 19 years at least. I'm hoping because my symptoms are relatively mild I caught it in time and can PT it back to where it needs to be. I generally stay pretty fit, maybe this will force me to keep my core strong.


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## Brotorboat (Apr 14, 2009)

Thanks!


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## JonasJ (Nov 10, 2006)

In 2007 I had the exact same thing L5-S1 and went through PT oral steroids/muscle relaxers and finally injections. They all failed. I am also a firefighter and thought surgery would end my career, quite the opposite. I finally went to see the surgeon after fighting the pain for 6 months. My leg was atrophying half the size of my good leg. Had the surgery and pain was gone next day. I have minor ache left but 95% recovered. There is a small less than 5% failure rate on diskectomy if you need it you will ride again. In the meantime I recommend a PT that can do dry needle theropy it's different than acupuncture and was the only relief I had. I know 2 others with the same surgery all went good.


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## streetdoctor (May 11, 2012)

JonasJ said:


> In 2007 I had the exact same thing L5-S1 and went through PT oral steroids/muscle relaxers and finally injections. They all failed. I am also a firefighter and thought surgery would end my career, quite the opposite. I finally went to see the surgeon after fighting the pain for 6 months. My leg was atrophying half the size of my good leg. Had the surgery and pain was gone next day. I have minor ache left but 95% recovered. There is a small less than 5% failure rate on diskectomy if you need it you will ride again. In the meantime I recommend a PT that can do dry needle theropy it's different than acupuncture and was the only relief I had. I know 2 others with the same surgery all went good.


Great to hear surgery worked good for you and it's a viable option down the road if i absolutely need it. Career ender has been in my thoughts as well… 

I spoke to my doc today and he thinks because my symptoms are mild that PT will fix me up in 6-8 weeks. He also offered oral steroids/injections as the next step.


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## jtnc (Aug 9, 2004)

I would definitely try PT before surgery, but I know a handful of people in Fort Collins who have had it (including me), and all have had good outcomes. The bulk of my pain was gone immediately after surgery and hasn't come back. For reference, prior to surgery I was on 6 vicodin a day and was still in a ton of pain. None of the drugs they gave me dulled it too much.

Exercise wise besides walking I've found some of the following to be good for my back:
- planks - both side and normal
- For even more "pain", do it in a TRX strap system or by putting your
feet on a yoga ball or something to add instability to the system and 
force your core to work more. You can add in a "crunch" with the 
TRX or ball to add more effort to - that is pull your knees in to your
chest or opposite elbow.

- TRX straps
I've really liked these. You have to use your core for most all 
exercises. A few of the upper arm ones I've actually found to be 
great for my back. Doing dynamic planks in them has been great 
too. And they're easy to toss in a bag when travelling.

- "extended cat pose" I guess it's called
Extended Cat Pose: Utthita Marjaryasana Stabilizers Yoga Poses
Good for helping strengthen the lower back

- crunches on a yoga ball

- I'm not sure what it's called, but lay on your back, press the 
small of the back into the floor, and pretend you're riding a bike.
the farther out you extend your legs, the bigger work out you'll get.

- At a gym, grab a weight (I like ~25-30lb) and get on a bench on your
hands and knees. Stick your left leg out as in the pose above, and with
your right hand, pick up the weight from the ground and just lift it up.
I think the extra weight and having your leg out really forces your 
lower back muscles to engage and stabalize.

- And lastly, a squat. Though a squat with a weight, so a 20-30lb 
weight. Hold it to your check when standing, push out when squatting.
The trainer who got me going on these last two, had me using the
weight to aid balance and help me keep my knees behind my toes.
While it definitely helped with that, I found it helped my back more
than doing squats alone.

Swimming has also been good at relaxing my back.

Good luck, hope the PT works!


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## Doozer (Aug 24, 2013)

Another vote to keep acupuncture in mind (research and find a fully licensed one)

Also research the steroid injections. They can cause more problems than solutions. Not always. Just be informed.

Check you diet too. You can reduce inflammation nicely that way.

Best of luck!


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## Doozer (Aug 24, 2013)

Also research dry needling vs acupuncture.

Dry needling came after injection research where they realized the needle itself, without a solution being I injected, still worked. Hence dry (no solution/injection) needling. 

Acupuncture is often confused with dry needling.

Acupuncture is a full system where dry needling basically (using acupuncture needles) only needles local pain without providing systemic support.

I've gotten more results from acupuncture than dry needling.
.


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## streetdoctor (May 11, 2012)

I've been dry needled once a week for the last 2 months or so… has helped my hamstrings recover immensely. Will probably ask to get my QL's done again tuesday as they have been tight with the core work I've recently been doing. Trying to put together a core workout plan now. Been doing some real easy stuff along with using an inversion table and I'm noticing improvement. 

JTNC, thanks for the great post, that's exactly what I'm looking for. I talked to the doctor and he basically gave me free reign on core work as long as it doesn't hurt. I'm going to forego injections for at least a couple months, might go on the oral stuff as it has helped my shoulder in the past. Thanks again for all the replies.


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## dweiss (Sep 17, 2013)

I am with td if pt works good but for me acupuncture got me walking and haven't had any problems since


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## jeffy (Sep 17, 2004)

I'm in a similar situation with a buldger in my neck. I have no restricted movement in my neck but if i sit for long hours or sit poorly for any time at all, my left arm will get tingles. I'm seeing the doc this week, we'll see what they say.


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## streetdoctor (May 11, 2012)

Put together my own core workout:

childs pose 30 sec x 3
Cat pose 30 sec x 3
extended cat pose 30 sec x 3 each side
reverse crunch with stability ball 15 x 3
plank left/center/right 30 sec each x 3
stability ball jack knife 15 x 3
stability ball ab roll out 15 x 3
push up position knee to elbow 10 each side x 3

I've done it the last two days and it makes my back feel great. Need to put together something else to mix it up a bit too.


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## Brotorboat (Apr 14, 2009)

Looking for an acupuncture recommendation in Denver/Boulder area. Someone that has experience with lower back issues. Please and thank you!!


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## pentaxis (Jun 17, 2013)

I have a friend that I paddle with that had a very similar issue. He could barely sit down on a chair. Cortizone shots would only last 24 hours. He had surgery, and had immediate relief. It doesn't trouble him at all anymore.


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## megancarroll (Feb 15, 2011)

I had the exact same slipped disc last year. I boated with the injury and I slightly regret it because it took longer to heal. Instead of 6-8 weeks it took me 6 months to fully recover, even still I have flare ups if I overdo it. I had a flare up on the grand canyon from rowing and I couldn't walk for three days. 

Do's: 
PT, stretch at home as well, lay on the floor and bring your knees to your chest. The best one that fixed me was laying on my stomach with my chest propped up on pillows and my knees propped up on pillows in the superman position for 20 minutes every day. Take it easy, biking is a horrible position for a back injury. Yoga helps a lot. Get a massage to get those tight knots out because they are tight around the nerves causing the pain in your legs. 


Don'ts:
don't lift anything. make your friends carry your boat. If you want to get in the water, do something easy like duckying on flat water.


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## Brotorboat (Apr 14, 2009)

Also looking for recommendation on a chiropractor in the Denver area. 
Does anyone out there have experience with Denver Chiropractic, LLC?


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## streetdoctor (May 11, 2012)

I would stay away from a chiro if you have lower back pain associated with a disc… 


I'm going to a new PT down in castle pines- Jen at Leading Edge PT. The program she put me on is definitely helping. Most of my issues aren't disc related, but I'm pretty sure boating won't bother me. Might get out tuesday or wednesday and see.


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