# misbehaving, loose pit bull @ Golden WW park



## Schizzle (Mar 26, 2004)

I have a great recipe for loose misbehaving dogs I should share with you. Just 15 minutes of preparation, a hot grill, and you can enjoy a wonderful meal, great for impressing company and friends.

Until next time,

Martha Stewart


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## gh (Oct 13, 2003)

Might be over the top with generalization there. My dog does fine at the ww park but he is never unattended and is well behaved. Thats like me saying that all kids are a pain in the ass and should never be brought out in public. Its just too general a statement to be true.


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## latenightjoneser (Feb 6, 2004)

attended dog: someone (not in a kayak) is holding the leash.

otherwise, your dog is unattended


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## bigboater (Dec 10, 2003)

gh wrote:


> all kids are a pain in the ass and should never be brought out in public.


I agree with gh 100 percent.


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## GE (May 21, 2004)

I agree with the loose kids being a problem in our public spaces. Please keep all children under the age of 18 on a leash at all times, or leave them at home. They bother me, and are therefore infringing on my rights, and i demand they be restrained.


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## mvhyde (Feb 3, 2004)

*ow*

all dogs are evil as are their owners, and oh yeah, their kids too... now really....

my dog swims rapids like he's creeking, and my 4.5 yr old kid thinks he's the next EJ and well.... at least he can roll and surf, the kid that is.

Personally, Pitbulls are not really friendly dogs, they're one-person animals with a bad rep that is well deserved and I think they should be shot on sight. They typically do not get along with other dogs, not to mention people. They've been bred and inbred for one thing in mind, fighting.

Most river dogs I have seen are pretty well behaved, although their owners really need to clean up after them. I get tired of stepping in dog crap at Smelter. There are enough bad smells down there from the sewage plant without adding more.


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## bigboater (Dec 10, 2003)

mvhyde wrote:


> all dogs are evil as are their owners, and oh yeah, their kids too


I agree with mvhyde to.


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## Phillips (Feb 19, 2004)

Hey Ture wanna run Clear Creek of the ARk on Sunday?

call me
Kent


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## Fuzzy (May 25, 2005)

what kind of dumb shit brings a pit bull to a park and lets it run around off the lease. Pit bull attack = jail time YOU ARE A DUMB SHIT!!


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## Phillips (Feb 19, 2004)

gh I agree with you, people need to be carefull about making sweeping general statements. But its not like you saying "all kids are a nuisance therefore they shouldn't be brought out in public." Unattended dogs at worst could possibly harm others especially aggressive breeds. Eventhough you might find all kids a nuisance, this would not be sufficient enough grounds to keep kids out of the public. Now if you argue that "some kids may harm others when brought out into public" then a leash law for kids might be a proper thing. To my knowledge and experience I haven't seen too many Chuckies lately in Golden. Of course I haven't been to Golden in quite a while do the fact that the play isn't worth the Circus that now is Golden.


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## gh (Oct 13, 2003)

latenightjoneser, attended means someone on shore but it does not mean on a leash. My dog does not have to be on a leash to be under control.


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## latenightjoneser (Feb 6, 2004)

Last time I checked, Golden WW park was not an "off leash" park.


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## paddlebizzle (Oct 15, 2003)

I agree with MV Hyde. The only Pit Bull I've ever seen that I would trust is Hobie's dog, Jiggy - and it is a really cool dog.

Otherwise - that Pit Bull should be shot on site and it's owner lynched. Pit Bulls are bred for one thing - fighting. You either own a Pit Bull to intimidate people, or protect yourself from some deep insecurity. Why the Town of Golden doesn't outlaw those dogs is beyond me. 

I've seen what Pit Bulls can do to dogs and children alike and they're disgusting animals. :evil: 

Sorry to rant on Mtn Buzz.


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## steven (Apr 2, 2004)

leave the dogs at home! they piss, shit and stink. i know some people are really close to their domesticated animals--but keep them out of public spaces! if you can't deal with that--leash those nuisances!


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## gh (Oct 13, 2003)

Sorry, I reread the title. The statements were general and I didnt realize that we were only talking about Golden. I dont go to the Golden WW park. I am not trying to defend the owner of the pitbull. He is in the wrong and if was there and saw this I would call animal control or the cops.


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## mvhyde (Feb 3, 2004)

*only problem with bring my dog is....*

he trys to rescue kayakers, failing that, he'll try to retrieve your boat (with you in it) from the awful wave/hole.


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## hobie (Nov 3, 2003)

Thanks for the good word about jiggy, he's sitting here waggin' his tail. 


"I've seen what Pit Bulls can do to dogs and children alike and they're disgusting animals"

I do however have to disagree with this comment. Bad owner equals bad dog. Raise them mean and they will be mean. I have had 5 pit bulls in my lifetime and every one of them was a lover. I did have a dog named Jake that died of cancer a few years ago that did not like male dogs (got him from the pound after he was saved from a way abusive home). So he did not like male dogs. Know what I did? Kept him on a leash and let others know. After a while we worked thru it and he was a great friend up till his final day. Im not saying they are a good choice for everyone but they are not all that bad. Jiggy even rode on the back of my bike from Savannah to Key West for our fundraiser and met hundreds of people along the way. We even visited a school in St. Augustine and all the kids played with him. He was the star of the trip.

hobie


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## Ture (Apr 12, 2004)

Thanks for the comments, feedback. I admit that I generalized in my opinion that kayakers are the worst offenders when it comes to controlling their dogs at Golden WW park but I honestly believe that. Some generalizations are true, you know...like people that can't stand kids are usually closet pedophiles.

Thanks for the dog recipe, Schizzle.


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## IkayakNboard (May 12, 2005)

*Pit Bulls*

I agree with Hobie. Any dog can be well behaved or mean depending on how it's raised. Of course, there are some dogs that are just plain mean, as there are people who are just plain mean. Pit Bulls don't attack people nearly as often as the media makes it sound. Beleive it or not, German Shepherd attacks are far more common in this state, but it doesn't get the media attention because they aren't "Pit Bulls". Also the fact that Pit Bulls are powerfull dogs, and when they do attack it occasionally ends in disaster. There are at least 12 different Pits that frequent the dog park by my house, and they are all great dogs that play well with every other dog. It should also be mentioned, that, according to the American Temperament Test Society, Pit Bulls are better behaved than many "Family" breeds, and less likely to snap. During their tests of just about every breed, 83.4% of Pit Bulls passed. Compare that to a Border Collie, considered to be a very smart, friendly dog, where only 79.6% passed. 82.8% of German Shepherds passed. 83.6% of Golden Retrievers...almost identical in temperament to a Pit Bull...yet people think of a Golden as a great, well behaved, friendly dog, and they think of Pit Bulls as viscious, mean, creatures. The average of all dogs tested, 25,726 dogs, was 81.0%. This proves the American Pit Bull has a better temperament than most dog breeds. Read about the tests, and the results: http://www.atts.org/index.html

Clinton


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## mvhyde (Feb 3, 2004)

*dangit clinton*

you just had to make us all feel bad with the math and stats

:lol:


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## hobie (Nov 3, 2003)

Yeah Clinton!

h


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## Jahve (Oct 31, 2003)

"I've seen what Pit Bulls can do to dogs and children alike and they're disgusting animals" 

I also have to disagree with this - IMO it is an 100% ignorant statement from someone who obviously has no experience with pits. If all dog owners were half as responsible as almost all pitt bull owners there would be almost no dog problems. The pits that I have are in my business everyday. My latest has probably only met about 30,000 different people and plays just about every night with the 10,11,12 year old neighborhood kids. He is a great dog that is a political refugee from the so sweet 303 area. 

I have been bitten by two dogs at put in's and takeouts one was a 10+ stitch gash - that dog was a lab. The other was a chow. Both dogs were "super friendly and never bit anyone else" - bullshit. I saw two labs kick the shit out of each other at the BV spot a week ago. Neither were on leashes nor did the blood spewing fight warrant a thread on a web site  funny. I wonder if it were 2 pits? Then it would be front page Denver post.

Most of the "problem" dogs that I see are off leash at the playpark shitting on everything with the owner/boater never picking up. Lets face it from what I have seen in the boating community we as boaters are about the least responsible dog owners around. How many times is a boater in the eddy yelling at his dog while it barks at a rock? Every boating hippie livin in a truck/van seems to have some type of dog in tow.

These are not pitts but labs, mixes, golden's, ect. For the most part these are the problem dogs - not pits.

If you want to lash out at dog owners at you should at least go after the dogs/owners that cause the most problems around play parks. But I assume that it is much easier just to single out the pit.


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## paddlebizzle (Oct 15, 2003)

My name is Jeff by the way.

I figured I might ruffle some feathers since my stance was far from the conservative middle. But I stand my ground.

Regardless of the evidence, stats etc, the bottom line is that Pit Bulls were bred for fighting. They are stoutly built, with very strong legs, and jaws that can deliver over 2000 lbs per square inch for the sole purpose of biting and holding on until the dog on the receiving end either runs out of air or the spine is snapped. Sounds like a real snuggler to me. . . 

RDNECK: I'm not ignorant. I have personally witnessed several Pit Bull attacks on other dogs (one admittedly was off the leash so I'm not sure if it's worth mentioning), plus a kid, and its really scary. Finally I had two living next door to me growing up and it sucked.

Everyone sees dogfights regardless of the breed, whether its in Denver, BV, and everyone has been bitten too. But there is a reason Pit Bulls are banned by the Cities of Denver, Boulder, Longmont, and Centennial. There must be definitive history and evidence as to why a city would go through the efforts to make it an ordinance. 

I can empathize with Hobie because Jiggy is a really cool dog, but I still consider Jiggy to be the exception rather than the norm.

Make one point very certain: I'm not calling anyone a dumbshit, ignorant, or an asshole as everyone is entitled to their dogs and their opinion. Go nuts if you will. . .


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## whip (Oct 23, 2003)

*Say*

Hey that pit bulls name wasn't Kutch was it?


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## IkayakNboard (May 12, 2005)

I'm not arguing the fact that pits are strong dogs, and when they do attack, it's worse than when most other dogs attack. I'm not arguing the fact that people should be in control of their dogs...either on a leash or through training. I beleive not all dogs need to be leashed. My mut doesn't listen to me worth a $#!+ when I call him, so I keep him leashed when I take him places, and I leave him home when I boat...even though I think he's the friendliest, cutest, one ear standing up pup in the world. I am arguing the fact Pit Bulls have been given a bad name, and Jiggy isn't the exception, but the norm (guessing, I've never seen Jiggy), and that the pits that attack are the exception. Certain breeds shouldn't be banned. Certain owners should be banned from owning any breed. "There must be definitive history and evidence as to why a city would go through the efforts to make it an ordinance." That is crap. Legislaters have nothing to do but make laws. They make laws we don't need all the time, like this whole breed banning crap, and the most rediculous of all, Speed Limits. The government doesn't need any evidence or definitive history to do anything...look at the lack of evidence that put troops in Iraq.

Vote for me, C Dubya, in the next election. No breed banning, no speed limits, Swedish Bikini Team Clone Project will take over all NASA funding, once successful, Swedish Bikini Models will be America's #1 export, which will eliminate our deficit. How's that for a campaign? BOOM Shayaka

Happy Friday,

Clinton W. (not to be confused with W. Clinton)


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## bsmith (Jun 1, 2005)

hey mv hyde and paddlebizzle--I had a pit for 15 years and she was awesome. While I agree that they need a little more monitoring than breeds like labs--calling them disgusting or saying they need to be shot on site is a little over the top. I have known many pits over the years and I can tell you from personal experience that the vicious ones are the exception. Obviously you choads know very little about them--so why don't you just keep your ignorant opinions to yourselves. In fact, why dont you gaybirds go paddling or something instead of sounding like a bunch of little biatches on the internet. douchebags.


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## gapers (Feb 14, 2004)

Fuck pitbulls, one of those angry bastards bit my lil Kenny(black lab) in the weinus, for no reason at all. I'ma curb stomp them mo-fo's. I'd be angry all the time if i was that ugly too


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## Peev (Oct 24, 2003)

Or you could've just said all black people are *******, all mexicans are *****, all jews are rich business people, all overprivelged white kids from the suburbs are murders, and all little kids are brats.

I've been around pits all my life, currently own three adopted ones, and have never witnessed any aggresion from this breed. Sure there are the bad apples that get the media attention, and their owners should be held responsible and I agree no dogs should be left unattendend!!!! What about rots, shepards, mastiffs, and neopolitans??? I suppose they're all good because the media doesn't hype them.

Give me a break! Hope to see you on the river, I'd love to paddle with you, I'm the guy with a shaved head and lots of tats - and no I didn't steal your shit in Poudre Canyon.

PEEV


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## CatJockey (Jun 21, 2005)

*Not quite dude.*



> This proves the American Pit Bull has a better temperament than most dog breeds.


 Not quite. That is a subjective test and differences in anticipated reactions from different breeds are taken into account, meaning that a golden retriever and a pit bull are expected to react differently before any scoring is assigned. The proof of the issue here, the inherent danger posed by a certain breed, lies not in a subjective test, with many parts, where dogs are graded differently dependent upon their breed.

You bring up goldens and border collies and try to make the argument that they have worse temperments than do pit bulls and that pits pose less of a threat. Gimme a break dude. When is the last time a golden or a collie killed somebody? Show me an example of a child being ripped to death by a vicous Border Collie or Golden Retriever, and if you can find one, I will show you dozens upon dozens of a pit bull killing a child. And then, we will do some further analysis upon the numbers relative to the total number of dogs that exsist for each of those specific breeds and your case looks even more ridiculous. The fact of the matter is that pit bulls are responsible for more deaths of humans than any other dog breed (rottweilers may have recently taken first place due to the explosion of their population from people with small penis'). If that is not the ultimate breed temperment test, well, I don't know what is then.

I have met several well behaved and stable pits. That is not neccisarily the problem with them as breeders, at least responsible ones, have tried to eliminate the behavioral traits, killing, that they were bred for initially and have been succesful. The problem is that any dog of any breed can be pushed to the point of attack or react improperly to a situation and attack, no matter how friendly they seem and when a pit bull reaches this threshold the amount of damage they inflict is far beyond that of an average dog. That is what they were bred for - to kill. And although breeders have a been succesful at mellowing out this temperment, the physical aspects that make them effective killers remains and their willingness to use it remains, even if their fuse has been made much longer.

While I also agree that just about any dog can be raised to be mean and aggressive, the converse is not as true. Some dogs are genetically disposed to reacting in a much more aggressive fashion than others - and that is not something that can be trained out of them. It can only be bred out of subsequent generations.

Back to the issue though, pit bull or chihuahua, a few irresponsible owners can ruin it for the rest.


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## BastrdSonOfElvis (Mar 24, 2005)

paddlebizzle said:


> "You either own a Pit Bull to intimidate people, or protect yourself from some deep insecurity."
> 
> I know several people that own pits and all the dogs were rescued. My sister-in-law's dog was found miscarrying her puppies on the side of a road after being drug behind a car, presumeably in some gang initiation. So, from the little bit of information I have, I could make the dipshit presumption that one would only own a pit bull out of empathy and kindness for a previously mistreated animal. Sadly, this is not the case.
> 
> ...


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## gh (Oct 13, 2003)

Nevermind


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## jester (Oct 14, 2003)

*Keep 'em on a leashj*

Some people love dogs, some people are scared of dogs, especially pit bulls. I have 2 Choc. labs who love the river and are very well-behaved around people and other dogs. I would not own a pit bull because of the possibility of something bad happening (attacking another dog, child, person) I'm sure there are nice pit bulls out there but you sure hear alot of bad things that happen with them. I definitely agree that whatever the breed, they should be attended on a leash by a person at all times when in public places. Some dog owners are far worse than the dogs when it comes to watching out for their dogs, picking up shit, etc...


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## Swim team capt. (Jun 22, 2005)

Last Monday we watched a dog being walked on a leash PISS on one of Marks Demo boats at Golden. Something was said loud enough so the owner could hear and he just kept walking.

Its not the dogs that should be SHOT its the STUPID people that own them!!! They are just being dogs.


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## richterHUS (Jun 16, 2005)

I just wanted to reiterate that you have to take a subjective study like that with a grain of salt. I own a papillon and it weighs about 6 pounds and wouldn't hurt a fly, in fact it's afraid of most other dogs because he's so small and that breed scored 78% which was lower than all discussed. It depends on the owner and how the dog was raised but some dogs once they do attack seem to be more viscious, like pit bulls.
And Clinton, speed limits actually do reduce the number of accidents and deaths, even though I still think they suck


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## rubberducky (Jun 16, 2005)

I think the real issue here is less about dogs and more about overcrowding. It's not enough that we can't find a place to park, or we have to wait 20 minutes for one silly turn at a particular play hole, but we also have to negotiate a doggie minefield at the put- in. Dogs shit and piss-- just being dogs-- it is still inappropriate. I don't take a dump on the sidewalk. Why should your dog be allowed to? Take your dog to the doggie park, take your kayak to the water park. There are many of us who might like having dogs around if we didn't have to step in shit.


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## brooks8970 (Jun 5, 2005)

This is the most ridiculous thing I have ever read. Everybody agrees that dogs should be attended at the park and that they should be picked up after. 
The issue is not whether or not the reputation of the pitbull is deserving but the fact that it has one and people are scared to death of them. Keep them on lockdown in public places so people dont have to guess.


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## ZLSeth (Aug 17, 2004)

Everyone, go back and read the original post. Ture was not bashing Pitbulls. He was not bashing dogs. He made a simple, reasonable, respectful request: do not leave your dogs unattended at a place like the WW park.

I am a dog person. I believe that a dog is often a part of the family, rather than simply a pet.

Would you take your infant to the WW park and leave him or her unattended on the rocks? So why would you leave your dog unattended? OK, the infant is ever-so-slightly less likely to attack somebody... but you should get my point. If youre going to bring a dog to a WW park, bring a dog-sitter. Otherwise, the dog should stay at home.

If there were only two or three dogs, that would be fine. But the fact is there are usually a lot of people at the WW park, many of them dog owners. So who is to say which river-rat may or may not bring a dog?

Save yourself the trouble. If you care about your dog, you will leave him at home. If yourwell-behaved dog is on a leash, tied to a tree and somebody's obnixious kid starts pulling on his tail or his ears, the dog is going to get pissed. He may snap. If he bites a kid, you may face fines, medical bills and you may lose your dog. Is all that really worth it for the opportunity for your dog to watch you paddle?

Now as for the attack on Pitbulls. Yes, they are bred to be fighters. Yes, they are more prone to violence than many other breeds. But if they are raised properly, the majority are good dogs.


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## CatJockey (Jun 21, 2005)

*Of course not.*



> Would you take your infant to the WW park and leave him or her unattended on the rocks?


 Of course not. Everybody knows that instead of leaving an infant unattended on the rocks you need to tie them to the bumper of your truck.



> He made a simple, reasonable, respectful request: do not leave your dogs unattended at a place like the WW park.


 Not quite and not just unattended. Attended dogs must also be leashed according to the pet detective because dogs and boating don't mix. He stated that he has already been in contact with the Golden po-po and has asked them to make their presence felt at the water park. Making a reasonable request would be to reach out to the boating community - not calling the cops and asking them to hang out at the water park. Gee, boaters don't like to throw back a couple of beers after paddling sometimes and they never smoke dope either. That's a good idea. We need more police presence hassling us. Maybe some more of us can get some neat-o possesion tickets and such. We should all call the Golden po-po and ask them to frequent the water park and hassle us.


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