# Van Sometimes Down By the River



## BenSlaughter (Jun 16, 2017)

Ford now sells a factory 4x4 van....

I've had the same thought. Would be sweet for rivers, and working out of town. The thing I'm up against is the vans don't have the towing capacity I need for my work trailer. Contemplating doing a (nice)conversion on the back of a pickup chassis.


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## lncoop (Sep 10, 2010)

BenSlaughter said:


> Ford now sells a factory 4x4 van....


Do tell. Is it stock? I couldn't find such a critter other than the Quigley option.


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## trekinit (Jul 29, 2020)

lncoop said:


> Do tell. Is it stock? I couldn't find such a critter other than the Quigley option.


Can confirm. They sell a factory AWD transit model now.
If you want a true adventure mobile you could throw a four-wheel-camper in the back of that Tundra. Beef up the leafs and you would be good to go. 




__





Home


For custom pop-up truck campers you design yourself, Four Wheel Campers, Inc. has toppers, flatbeds, and slide-ins.




fourwheelcampers.com


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## jeffro (Oct 13, 2003)

As trekinit states the Transits come in a AWD option, not 4wd. I think Transits are the way to go for a new van.


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## BenSlaughter (Jun 16, 2017)




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## lncoop (Sep 10, 2010)

Thanks for clarifying, guys. Saw the AWD but Ben had me salivating for a sec LOL! Four Wheel Campers has a compelling product - very intriguing. Looks like I'd end up spending $20k minimum. I think for us a van would make more sense.


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## BenSlaughter (Jun 16, 2017)

Sorry, I guess any more I don't differentiate much between AWD and 4WD.


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## lncoop (Sep 10, 2010)

BenSlaughter said:


> Sorry, I guess any more I don't differentiate much between AWD and 4WD.


I hear ya. With that Tundra I still live in a world where you're either in 2h, 4h or 4lo (except for that 6+ months last year it was stuck in 4hi until I finally threw in the towel and swapped in a new to me transfer case). Ouch. I'm sure AWD would more than meet my needs these days.


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## hysideguy67 (Jul 15, 2021)

Can't say enough about a Savana/Express awd van. V8 power, decent mpg (15-19), and get through some pretty rough terrain. Put in a simple fold up bed frame and you have a camping/rafting rig with under bed storage. We take bed out in winter and it becomes a ski lodge for 4-5 peeps around a Lil Buddy. Bonus with bed out is a big, dry cargo area


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## westwatercuban (May 19, 2021)

BenSlaughter said:


> Sorry, I guess any more I don't differentiate much between AWD and 4WD.


The way I see it for the transit is you’re not crawling or doing any serious off-road. Even with a sprinter. I’ve seen some with lifts and I can’t see how it’s practical. You’re gonna be super top heavy. You don’t want to raise your center of gravity. The stock AWD version of the transit will do more than enough for 90-95% Of the time. FWIW the ford transit can tow around 5000 lbs come configurations can do more. There’s a dual rear wheel option too, and the proven 3.5 ecoboost motor. So you can tow in the same class as the f150 no problem. If you’re lucky…you can find the powerstoke model.

I also trust what ford makes and their awd systems. I trust them because I took a 2019 AWD Ford Escape through south draw road leaving capitol reef…


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## lncoop (Sep 10, 2010)

Y'all are saying things I like. We were in the unenviable situation last spring of having to get my sweetie out of a beat up Land Rover she brought into our new life together. She got more than her money's worth out of it but it was unreliable. I bent over and did what I felt I had to do and we acquired a GX 460 just in time for our Utah/Colorado/NM trip last May. Two of us plus four teenagers towing all the toys and gear from Arkansas to Boulder to Moab to Loma then to Hotchkiss then to Taos was - interesting, but all things considered successful if expensive - premium gas anyone? It was also enough to convince me it was time to begin considering more seriously my vantasy. I'm pondering it as a replacement for that expensive GX, a proposition which would take some selling but I think she'd warm up to it. I know she's very open to the van idea.


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

Nothing out there comes close to a 4wd sprinter van with the diesel. Yep, they are spendy new, but diesel power, diesel economy, diesel towing, and it's not a ford, I have 4 friends now that have them and they wouldn't trade them for anything. I asked about the top heavy aspect of them, but apparently not so much. You can get them up to a 1 ton chassis I believe

The Sprinter also comes in 2 turbo-diesel options: a 2.1-liter and 3.0-liter V6. For starters, they’ve been in production longer than the Transit, so there are older used examples available that may fit your budget. There’s also lots of ideas and support to be found in forums. Four-wheel-drive (true 4wd, not AWD) is also available on the Sprinter, and the build quality of these vans is generally considered better than Fords. The Transit has a fuel-economy rating of 15 mpg in the city, 19 mpg on the highway and 17 mpg combined for the rear-wheel-drive model, and 14/19/16 mpg for the all-wheel-drive version. In comparison, the Sprinter can get up to 21 mpg in the city, 24 mpg on the highway and 22 mpg combined for both low-top and high-top models. At a 22-gallon capacity, the size of the Sprinter’s fuel tank is much bigger than the Transit, = fewer stops for gas / diesel. 

The diesel versions can hit 35 MPG on the highway I'm told.

Lastly, Sprinters are known for their longevity and durability. Some Sprinters have more than 600,000 miles on them! Fords are known for a lot of things, incessant recalls, only certain models being somewhat reliable, other models being prone to spontaneous combustion, but all that aside, they simply aren't built to be long lasting, which is why for years ford touted the F-150 as the best selling truck they make. Not the most reliable, OR the longest lasting. As they used to advertise, it's only built Ford tough, whatever that means. It is nice to see that they now stamp their name into the metal of the trucks, as they couldn't stop the insignias from falling off..


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

BenSlaughter said:


> Sorry, I guess any more I don't differentiate much between AWD and 4WD.


Sadly, there's a huge difference, in a lot of things. For me the main downside is AWD MUST have the same diameter tires, to like a 1/16 of an inch. You lose a tire on a half worn set of tires, and you have to replace them all. Yep, it's nice to have in snow, but in off road conditions, AWD doesn't do the same job, it's like having open rears front and rear. Sends all the power to the wheel that spins the fastest on whichever axle it's on.


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## k2andcannoli (Feb 28, 2012)

I've got an old shorty Dodge Ramvan and absolutely love it.... personally I just couldn't do the sprinter, they're just so ugly. If money wasn't an issue I'd go with a diesel E250 and a conversion by Ujoint Off-road. If keeping it below 6 figures is important, Nissan dealerships are doing factory conversions to their van with parts from the titan. They're still ugly but not as fugly as those euro boxes.

















Nissan NVP 4WD Conversion | Tim Dahle Nissan Southtowne


Thank you for your interest in a new Nissan NV 4X4 Conversion offered here at Tim Dahle Nissan Southtowne. We look forward to serving you.




www.timdahlesouthtowne.com


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## BenSlaughter (Jun 16, 2017)

MNichols said:


> Sadly, there's a huge difference, in a lot of things. For me the main downside is AWD MUST have the same diameter tires, to like a 1/16 of an inch. You lose a tire on a half worn set of tires, and you have to replace them all. Yep, it's nice to have in snow, but in off road conditions, AWD doesn't do the same job, it's like having open rears front and rear. Sends all the power to the wheel that spins the fastest on whichever axle it's on.


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## lncoop (Sep 10, 2010)

At times like these I wonder what Grif would do.


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## the_dude (May 31, 2006)

Man I would honestly throw an AT Overland or Flip Pac or some other topper on your Tundra and go with that. I too have a first gen Tundra and am pondering something similar. Most of the time when we're not backpacking but sleeping at the trailhead, put in, etc., we just sleep in the back and make the kids sleep in hammocks or on the ground. I don't want the second vehicle around for storage, insurance, maintenance, etc., and only be there for occasional use. Not worth it to me. Obviously my preference may not be yours but that's my line of thought knowing that you too have a Tundra.


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## hysideguy67 (Jul 15, 2021)

Stock van = stealth camping. We can go unnoticed even in urban settings whilst road trippin and needing a place for some shut eye


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## trekinit (Jul 29, 2020)

the_dude said:


> Man I would honestly throw an AT Overland or Flip Pac or some other topper on your Tundra and go with that. I too have a first gen Tundra and am pondering something similar. Most of the time when we're not backpacking but sleeping at the trailhead, put in, etc., we just sleep in the back and make the kids sleep in hammocks or on the ground. I don't want the second vehicle around for storage, insurance, maintenance, etc., and only be there for occasional use. Not worth it to me. Obviously my preference may not be yours but that's my line of thought knowing that you too have a Tundra.


This. Plus, when you need to use your truck for truck stuff all you do is ditch the camper on jacks in the garage.


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## BenSlaughter (Jun 16, 2017)

the_dude said:


> Man I would honestly throw an AT Overland or Flip Pac or some other topper on your Tundra and go with that. I too have a first gen Tundra and am pondering something similar. Most of the time when we're not backpacking but sleeping at the trailhead, put in, etc., we just sleep in the back and make the kids sleep in hammocks or on the ground. I don't want the second vehicle around for storage, insurance, maintenance, etc., and only be there for occasional use. Not worth it to me. Obviously my preference may not be yours but that's my line of thought knowing that you too have a Tundra.


For the Princesses amongst us (talking about myself, here....)
The canopy canpers don't cut the mustard.

In the immortal words of Ron White:
"...I've got a place to f#@√ your sister"

I want a full (read: king) size bed, and somewhere I can stand up to stretch afterwards.

Edit: I'd want a narrow, Cal King length mattress. Another problem with true vans is the bare interior width is only like 80". By the time you get a bit of insulation and paneling, you're talkin 75" wide. So sleeping crossways(for space conservation) she'd be rubbin a bald spot on top of my head 😉...


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## jeffro (Oct 13, 2003)

hysideguy67 said:


> Stock van = stealth camping. We can go unnoticed even in urban settings whilst road trippin and needing a place for some shut eye


SO many people think they are stealth camping in my neighborhood. They are dead wrong. I prefer the obvious campers because it seems less like a creeper. But I guess maybe I've never seen the "true stealth" ones. Kinda like ninjas. Of course they are out there but they're so good you never see them!


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## hysideguy67 (Jul 15, 2021)

jeffro said:


> SO many people think they are stealth camping in my neighborhood. They are dead wrong. I prefer the obvious campers because it seems less like a creeper. But I guess maybe I've never seen the "true stealth" ones. Kinda like ninjas. Of course they are out there but they're so good you never see them!


Exactly. You haven't seen us yet


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## lncoop (Sep 10, 2010)

Guys, this is all super helpful and much appreciated! I can certainly see the appeal of modding the Tundra as suggested, but I just don't think it makes sense for us for a number of reasons (many of which I haven't even mentioned - although I will say one of them has four legs and two four-legged siblings who sometimes join the party in addition to their two-legged siblings). It's a gong show around here!


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## jeffro (Oct 13, 2003)

*@MNichols* I'd love to trade my econoline for a Sprinter, but they are just too expensive. I hear maintenance is not cheap on them either. That being said I just spent north of $3k to replace four injectors so I can hardly say its maintenance is cheap, lol. My next adventure rig will likely be a 3/4 or 1 ton truck with a custom box on the back.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

hysideguy67 said:


> Can't say enough about a Savana/Express awd van. V8 power, decent mpg (15-19), and get through some pretty rough terrain. Put in a simple fold up bed frame and you have a camping/rafting rig with under bed storage. We take bed out in winter and it becomes a ski lodge for 4-5 peeps around a Lil Buddy. Bonus with bed out is a big, dry cargo area


I just bought a 1995 E150 conversion van. V8 power, 14-15mpg empty and 13mpg with a boat/trailer.

Fold up bed frame and captains chairs.

And I only paid $2,300 for it.


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## hysideguy67 (Jul 15, 2021)

MT4Runner said:


> I just bought a 1995 E150 conversion van. V8 power, 14-15mpg empty and 13mpg with a boat/trailer.
> 
> Fold up bed frame and captains chairs.
> 
> And I only paid $2,300 for it.


4x conversion?


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## Wallrat (Jan 19, 2021)

This has all the potential of a “drain your cooler or not” thread. If you get the van, where do you haul all your boat stuff? A trailer. So why not take a 16’ enclosed trailer And put a bed/mini kitchen in it? Then you have the truck separate and empty to use for gear. A used trailer is a few grand. A van goes for many thousands of dollars. Here’s my junky old version of a camp trailer that I used when I was a prospector. It was great.


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## lncoop (Sep 10, 2010)

Wallrat said:


> This has all the potential of a “drain your cooler or not” thread. If you get the van, where do you haul all your boat stuff? A trailer. So why not take a 16’ enclosed trailer And put a bed/mini kitchen in it? Then you have the truck separate and empty to use for gear. A used trailer is a few grand. A van goes for many thousands of dollars. Here’s my junky old version of a camp trailer that I used when I was a prospector. It was great.


LOL very true. I need passenger space I don't have though, which an enclosed trailer wouldn't address. I can split boats/gear between a van and trailer, but people and critters not so much (though there were times during the aforementioned trip I'd have been tempted to put the teenage girls in an enclosed trailer if I'd had one).


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## Wallrat (Jan 19, 2021)

lncoop said:


> LOL very true. I need passenger space I don't have though, which an enclosed trailer wouldn't address. I can split boats/gear between a van and trailer, but people and critters not so much (though there were times during the aforementioned trip I'd have been tempted to put the teenage girls in an enclosed trailer if I'd had one).


Lol. This is a conversation I’ve been having with myself for a long time…van or trailer. I still don’t have an answer. Good luck with yours!


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## lncoop (Sep 10, 2010)

Wallrat said:


> Lol. This is a conversation I’ve been having with myself for a long time…van or trailer. I still don’t have an answer. Good luck with yours!


Thanks pard! This is half the fun!


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## BenSlaughter (Jun 16, 2017)

lncoop said:


> .....(though there were times during the aforementioned trip I'd have been tempted to put the teenage girls in an enclosed trailer if I'd had one).


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## lncoop (Sep 10, 2010)

BenSlaughter said:


> View attachment 80098


This is an example of the quality advice only available on the buzz!


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## Electric-Mayhem (Jan 19, 2004)

I think that most Van Life folks overstate their stealthyness. I pretty much assume that any van that doesn't have a business logo on it is a "Stealth" RV conversion" and is 100% guarantee if its in a wilderness setting. Perhaps law enforcement looks past them more often then a truck with a truck camper though. At the end of the day... how often do you plan on camping in an urban setting though? For what its worth I've had a buddy with a Transit 350 Van that has been staying in front of my house for a bit and Code Enforcement has definitely noted his presence. Unfortunately, whether they are Van Life converted or not used for commercial use, at least in my area they are deemed "commercial vehicles" and you can't park them on the street.

If it were me, and echoing others, I'd just get a slide in truck camper for your Tundra. On the used market Sub-$10k (or even Sub $5k) campers that would fit the Tundra are plentiful and come with all the amenities you'd want including a full size bed, refrigerator, stove(sometimes with an oven), and sometimes even a toilet and shower in the larger ones.... all built in and ready to go. Forget those overpriced Four Wheel Brand ones that are bare bones but expensive. Plenty of pop up campers that don't have the "Four Wheel Premium"... and you won't have to spend $65k-125k on a Van you probably can't stand up straight in.

I did a Lochsa/Selway trip earlier this year and one of the guys on the trip had a camper in his Tundra and it was super cushy. Easily enough room in there for you and your furry four legged friends. A lot of them have a "kids" bed setup that folds out in the kitchen area too. Then...when you get home and need the truck without the camper, you just put the jacks down and slide it out.

My long term plans are to convert the F550 with a 12ft flatbed I bought late last year into a road tripping hauler "Poor Mans Earthroamer". Put a 8-12ft camper on it and road trip in style. Its gets about 13mpg no matter what...so might as well have a nice place to sleep and live out of.


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## Inertiaman (Jun 4, 2021)

BenSlaughter said:


> Another problem with true vans is the bare interior width is only like 80". By the time you get a bit of insulation and paneling, you're talkin 75" wide. So sleeping crossways(for space conservation) she'd be rubbin a bald spot on top of my head 😉...


I think you're way off on the internal width of vans. The _external_ width of a Transit, for example, is 81" (not counting mirrors). Interiors are much less. A Sprinter interior is ~69" wide at the floor, and only 67" wide at 32" above the floor (a typical bed platform height). Transits are slightly better on the interior, in part because the walls curve in less than Sprinters. 

So while your point (that sleeping across the van is generally impractical) is true, the numbers that support that observation are actually much worse. 

Personally I would never consider a van setup with a sleep-across arrangement. Even with "flares" (fiberglass bubble things installed in window cavities) the length is too short, and it forces feet/head onto a thinly insulated exterior surface. Even if you're 5'6" and it works in theory, it forever limits future users to short people. Or people willing to significantly compromise sleep comfort (not me . . . ever sleep on a friend's couch that armrest-to-armrest is 4" shorter than you are?).


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## hysideguy67 (Jul 15, 2021)

Just measured the Savana. Side to side 74" at 24" top of mattress, no insulation or paneling. Tapers toward the rear. We're 6'1" an 5'7" and sleep sideways no prob as long as I'm towards the front. Funny tho, I'm developing a bald spot. Just weird


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## BenSlaughter (Jun 16, 2017)

Inertiaman said:


> I think you're way off on the internal width of vans. The _external_ width of a Transit, for example, is 81" (not counting mirrors). Interiors are much less. A Sprinter interior is ~69" wide at the floor, and only 67" wide at 32" above the floor (a typical bed platform height). Transits are slightly better on the interior, in part because the walls curve in less than Sprinters.


I'm sure you're right...not sure why I had 80" in my head... Regardless, at 6'2" it's not viable to sleep cross-ways. 

But I hadn't yet talked about the custom sleeping area slide-outs I have dreamed up....😉


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## Wallrat (Jan 19, 2021)

BenSlaughter said:


> I'm sure you're right...not sure why I had 80" in my head... Regardless, at 6'2" it's not viable to sleep cross-ways.
> 
> But I hadn't yet talked about the custom sleeping area slide-outs I have dreamed up....😉


I have no problem sleeping crosswise in my enclosed trailer. Plenty of width for that. Just some food for thought. That’s a queen sized mattress in there.


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## cupido76 (May 22, 2009)

hysideguy67 said:


> Can't say enough about a Savana/Express awd van. V8 power, decent mpg (15-19), and get through some pretty rough terrain. Put in a simple fold up bed frame and you have a camping/rafting rig with under bed storage. We take bed out in winter and it becomes a ski lodge for 4-5 peeps around a Lil Buddy. Bonus with bed out is a big, dry cargo area


Correct me if I'm wrong but I think those topped out at 6000 pounds towing capacity? 

If it's just the van those are great but if you need to tow anything big then you're limited.


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## westwatercuban (May 19, 2021)

Wallrat said:


> This has all the potential of a “drain your cooler or not” thread. If you get the van, where do you haul all your boat stuff? A trailer. So why not take a 16’ enclosed trailer And put a bed/mini kitchen in it? Then you have the truck separate and empty to use for gear. A used trailer is a few grand. A van goes for many thousands of dollars. Here’s my junky old version of a camp trailer that I used when I was a prospector. It was great.
> View attachment 80088
> 
> View attachment 80089
> ...


You sir just opened up a whole new world for me! Why have I never thought of this??




cupido76 said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong but I think those topped out at 6000 pounds towing capacity?
> 
> If it's just the van those are great but if you need to tow anything big then you're limited.


Well if you need more than 5000 lbs you’re gonna want a different vehicle to tow safely and more efficient anyways. I could have used my wrangler to take the motor boat out today, but used the f350 instead. My trucks mpg didn’t drop at all, where the jeep would have dropped lower than the truck. We all know every mile counts now.

Another huge plus


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## ArrTee (7 mo ago)

We finished our buildout of a 2020 Promaster. I chose the RAM because it has front wheel drive, less overhead than 4WD, 15 to 18 mpg and it was waay less than the MB and some less $ than Transit. We have a F150, love it, but the Transits didn’t do it for us. Did all the sourcing of components, all the grunt work and had my van guy (@remoteadventuredesign) cut holes inthe box, put in windows and fan. Plus, he made it nice with cabinetry, storage and covered up all the infrastructure — inverter, battery, water tank, drain et el. Can’t wait to tie on to the Star Outlaw and go ‘splorin!


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## Wallrat (Jan 19, 2021)

westwatercuban said:


> You sir just opened up a whole new world for me! Why have I never thought of this??
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

jeffro said:


> *@MNichols* I'd love to trade my econoline for a Sprinter, but they are just too expensive. I hear maintenance is not cheap on them either. That being said I just spent north of $3k to replace four injectors so I can hardly say its maintenance is cheap, lol. My next adventure rig will likely be a 3/4 or 1 ton truck with a custom box on the back.


You're pretty set up with that ambulance though.. I thought it was a pretty sweet ride for you guys..


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## okieboater (Oct 19, 2004)

My feedback is like the perfect all around (insert canoe, kayak, raft, truck and so on) there is no perfect all around camping/travel vehicle. But a person can do custom work themselves and use what ever vehicle they have to do a pretty good job that fits their requirements.

Early on in my outdoor sports game I got into Ford Econoline standard vans. I had two, one very basic OEM and the other the plush OEM version. Both were small V8 engines. Two wheel drive with posi traction and heavy duty shocks etc. I installed wall/roof panels with insulation. Built up the areas around the rear wheel wells into storage with a rail on the insides so I could slide in and lock in place a foam mattress. If I needed the space to haul what ever, just slide out the plywood and mattress. High enough to easily sleep on top with storage below for gear. Trailer hitch and I could easily tow either my motorcycle trailer or boat trailer. Made so many trips in these standard vans that I cannot list them. I also used these vans for daily transportation.

Bottom line Sprinter vans are awesome. I know several folks who own and love em. But for most of us a standard Ford, Chevy, Dodge Econoline type van serves us outdoor types very well.

For many years now I drive 4 WD pickup trucks with cab high camper shells. Racks on top of the shell to carry canoes, kayaks etc. Now I have a custom designed raft trailer and little teardrop trailer to use depending on the type of trip. Bottom line here is a standard pickup with shell does not give you the interior space a van does but is a good alternative. If you want to carry people inside, a van gives you plenty of space to set up extra seats or sleeping space or what ever.

For the OP, my advice is keep that paid for pickup or look for a good standard Van to customize to fit your needs. You can check out the Sprinter Vans and if you feel that is the way to go, do it. Every Sprinter Van I have looked at is pretty expensive when compared to standard USA made work vans. A few weeks ago I camped next to two retired couples both had the fully decked out Sprinter Vans. Expensive but basically fully equipped homes on wheels. Full kitchens, A/C, Solar etc etc. They were kayak and mountain bike fans and had both along. Like me, both had easy up type outside shelters to set in and cook. But at night they had full size beds along with A/C to relax with.


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## Montet202 (Aug 22, 2020)

2003 E350 one ton 15 passenger van with 20’ car hauler. Double axel is far better for Idaho back roads. Box on trailer stows a ton of gear. Rocket box and basket on van do as well.
Last year had three boats, all of our gear and ten people from three families loaded up for the Main. Vans were a hard sell for me until I stumbled into this one, with 100k miles for $2k. Now I’m hooked. On solo road trips I remove all the back seats and set my cot ip. Super easy. Versatile. (Have loaded thirty sheets of oak ply into it with no problem.). A car hauler is far more versatile than a raft specific trailer, as well. And not much more expensive.


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## okieboater (Oct 19, 2004)

*Montet202's solution may well be the best one yet to solve the OP's problem.*


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## mikesee (Aug 4, 2012)

I have a Transit AWD. Bought it in 2020 and built it out in '20 and '21. Use it to camp in while traveling to/from MTB and paddling trips. We have magnetic screen doors across the slider and rear doors such that we can have a nice breeze flowing through at camp without letting a single bug inside.

35k miles on it now. Lifetime fuel economy = a hair under 18mpg.

Can confirm I've never owned a more surefooted vehicle. Our access road/driveway in ID is steep, slightly off-camber, and gets 15+ feet of snow every winter, plus a little bit of freezing rain to make it extra sketchy.

I have a Honda Element AWD and even with a shitpile of added weight in it I frequently lose momentum, spin the tires, and have to back down and try again. Have had to park it at the base and walk home a few times -- truly the walk of shame.

My wife has a Tacoma 4x4 and even with a shitpile of weight in it she is forced to get down into 4LO and beg her way up the hill many times each winter, and often back down and start again.

In the Transit I've never, not once, done anything other than drive straight up and park. Doesn't spin the tires, doesn't crab walk, just goes. Worst situation we've had was 3' of snow overnight on top of a packed snow/ice base. Xmas day '20. We'd been gone for a few days and when we got home the plows hadn't yet been out. Wife was so gripped I stopped at the base and asked if she wanted to get out. She thought hard about it and then stayed. Van just went right up. One of the most impressive vehicular performances I've ever seen. Wouldn't have believed it had I not been in the van.

We have Blizzaks on all three vehicles. Would not be possible to get home 4+ months of the year without them.

Can't speak to towing because I don't.

I had two Promasters before this Transit. Wouldn't wish them on anyone. Loved the idea of FWD and inexpensive, but they never delivered on anything other than constant check engine lights and dealer visits. If I have to say something positive about the Promaster it has amazing turning radius.

I have a few friends with 4x4 Sprinters, and two with 2WD Sprinters. Don't envy them their maintenance/service costs. Don't believe I'd be getting home most of the winter with the way that system's 4WD works.

My wife has a Go-Fast camper on her Tacoma. It's nice, and handy, and utterly lame when I want to make coffee from bed, or cook dinner out of the rain, or not have to unpack/repack bikes/boats to have usable space.

I've had two truck/camper setups in this lifetime. Standing at the tailgate to cook -- or having to climb inside to fetch anything -- while feeding bugs or getting drizzled on just got old. 

Vans are not for everyone. But they're certainly the ideal for the way I like to car camp.


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## Montet202 (Aug 22, 2020)

okieboater said:


> *Montet202's solution may well be the best one yet to solve the OP's problem.*


It’s a sweet, easy setup. Though the van does get parked all winter with only 2wd. Then it’s time to run the 1996 F250 in the snow. Another great find with only 50k miles for a dirt cheap price. Less $$$ on vehicles = more $$$ on boats. Though they all run and are maintained very well, and I don’t have that fancy lane assist thingy.


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## TrishPhoto (Sep 26, 2019)

I’ve been looking for the epic 4x4 camper raft towing van, with some clearance, room for 2+ to sleep, a potty/shower (chics dig that), mini kitchen, and a slide out would be awesome. Not a Super C, just single, like a B+ with 4x4. We have a 1990 VW Syncro and it’s close but I want something more roomy and with AC that kinda works in the Summer. I found Nexus RV Rebel International 4x4 but that’s a bit too moster trucking. Airstream Atlas 24’ but I don’t want Mercedes Sprinter, nor the








maintenance $$$. I don’t want a slide in camper or a pop up. Suggestions welcome! I’ve been looking for years.


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## k2andcannoli (Feb 28, 2012)

How about an E series Raptor?


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## Randaddy (Jun 8, 2007)

I love the Express! The 5.3 liter growls and is pretty bad ass for a quarter ton. The stock clearance is great. I fit a nice bed/platform behind the second row seat, so it can seat five or sleep two (three if I'm lucky!). I don't live in it, I just set it up for boating, skiing, and road tripping - so I don't need the height. Plus I like to put boats on the roof and I like drive through restaurants. I also wanted one last, classic, American-style van with a V8. It stands out in the current sea of European vans!

You can get a '13 or '14 AWD with mega low miles from Good Guys like I did, and it's not cheap, but it's a lot cheaper than a 4x4 van or a Mercedes! It's also relatively cheap (these days), for what it is - a work truck version of a Suburban with a van body. Mine has rubber flooring, and very basic features, which I prefer. I know that I can get it fixed anywhere.

If you plan to tow, I'd get a transmission cooler. I wouldn't tow more than half the recommended weight with a 1500 van that costs this much - it's a lot of wear and tear on engine, transmission, and brakes just so you can have AWD. But for a raft trailer or small camper, it would be perfect. I pass vehicles climbing steep passes at highway speeds, including a lot of Transits. Power is not an issue.

It was fun to be recognized near the river by my Attack Van by a fellow Buzzard last week - nice to meet you Jeffro! Sweet ambulance!


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## westwatercuban (May 19, 2021)

k2andcannoli said:


> View attachment 80218
> 
> 
> How about an E series Raptor?


I’m a ford guy and that made me throw up in my mouth 🤮


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## Wallrat (Jan 19, 2021)

westwatercuban said:


> I’m a ford guy and that made me throw up in my mouth 🤮


I know what you mean…it must cost a fortune to tow that thing!


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

hysideguy67 said:


> 4x conversion?


Nah, just leaving it stock for now and keeping the sweet running boards on it...which actually keep a LOT of mud off the van when you're driving a wet backroad.


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

MT4Runner said:


> Nah, just leaving it stock for now and keeping the sweet running boards on it...which actually keep a LOT of mud off the van when you're driving a wet backroad.


How do you keep the wheels on the wrecker from throwing up mud in the radiator of the van? 

Or do you have one of those fashionable "bras" on the front ?


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## hysideguy67 (Jul 15, 2021)

MT4Runner said:


> Nah, just leaving it stock for now and keeping the sweet running boards on it...which actually keep a LOT of mud off the van when you're driving a wet backroad.


Still a great deal. Had you said yes on 4x my head woulda exploded. And mnichols is being mean, lol


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## hysideguy67 (Jul 15, 2021)

I can count 12 vans I've owned over the years for work and for play. The "one that got away" tho was an 85 E350 12 passenger with a 6.9 diesel and Banks turbo. Had a Quadravan 4x conversion, 6" lift and a 12k pto bumper winch. Name was Cooter... I miss you man, you were a beast


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

This guy has the coolest van I've ever seen.








Guy Williams (@thefatponyworkshop) • Instagram photos and videos


18K Followers, 1,055 Following, 285 Posts - See Instagram photos and videos from Guy Williams (@thefatponyworkshop)




 www.instagram.com


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## mikesee (Aug 4, 2012)

MT4Runner said:


> This guy has the coolest van I've ever seen.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Might be a bit of a stretch calling that a "van".

Super nice tho.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

OK, it's a lorry!


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## okieboater (Oct 19, 2004)

I have to admit having a tricked out van or pickup shell is the comfort I want these days.

On the other hand.

This young man has the youthful answer to all this comfort us old timers been discussing.









Van Life Is Dead and Something Called 'Camping' Is Now Hot


The hot new trend of sleeping outside on the ground shows promise and might be the answer to van life we've all been waiting for.




gearjunkie.com






Van life is diead and a back pack is the replacement


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## mikesee (Aug 4, 2012)

okieboater said:


> Van life is diead and a back pack is the replacement



I have two special drawers for backpacks...

...in the back of my van -- under the bed.


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## westwatercuban (May 19, 2021)

okieboater said:


> I have to admit having a tricked out van or pickup shell is the comfort I want these days.
> 
> On the other hand.
> 
> ...


Now the hipsters are going after camping 🤦🏻‍♂️ Yay..


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

westwatercuban said:


> Now the hipsters are going after camping 🤦🏻‍♂️ Yay..


You're starting to slip into the reality of getting older. Resisted at all costs, do not let it assimilate you.


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## Grif (May 21, 2008)

Tall vans flip when you dip into the ditch to let the raft bus by. Short vans get wimmens' dirty footprints on the headliner when they're screamin' "Grif! Grif!". Them seem to be yer choices. Some mag wheels and a rattlesnake steering wheel cover, and you'll be picking up my scraps at the takeout before you know it!


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

I got a '95 van with plush blue velvet and faded mahogany interior and a single disc CD player. All the interior lights are ice blue LED's. Sweet accordion blinds that Grif can peep through. Mag wheels and an autozone steering wheel cover!


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## lncoop (Sep 10, 2010)

Grif said:


> Tall vans flip when you dip into the ditch to let the raft bus by. Short vans get wimmens' dirty footprints on the headliner when they're screamin' "Grif! Grif!". Them seem to be yer choices. Some mag wheels and a rattlesnake steering wheel cover, and you'll be picking up my scraps at the takeout before you know it!


Finally! Headed to the dealer now! Will you dub me a copy of your feet on the roof mix tape???


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## okieboater (Oct 19, 2004)

Incoop, 

Please tell us your decision to solve your transport problem. All of us opinion givers are wondering what you are going to do. And, thanks for spicing up the last few days reading the Buzz.


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## Keriray (Jul 5, 2013)

jeffro said:


> As trekinit states the Transits come in a AWD option, not 4wd. I think Transits are the way to go for a new van.


And now they come in full Electric!!


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## Azriverboy77 (Aug 2, 2018)

I have a 1977 ford 350 “ quigly “ I’d gladly sell you for 5k& ! It has a 360 4 bolt main that gets a whopping 8 mpg


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## roverjohn (Jan 26, 2016)

Late to the game. 2003 E350 12 passenger here. Bought it 2 years ago as the wife always wanted a van. The previous owner put 4.56 gears in the rear end along with an ARB air locker. It's not 4wd but it will go places that a regular van cannot. The oversized Cooper Mud Terrains help too. I thought about adding 4wd to it but for now, it remains 2wd.

Do I wish the van was 4wd?...sometimes. Mostly for the low gearing in the t-case and not necessarily the traction since I have that with the locker. However, I have a fraction of the cost in my van of what a 4wd van costs.

We have a very simple buildout with a sleeping platform in the back with storage underneath and it works great. The van tows our fully loaded raft trailer with no issues and tows it much better than the 1993 Toyota Land Cruiser that we were using previously. We've put 10k+ miles on the van in a couple of years of use and no issues. For our 4wd needs, we will still take the Land Cruiser but the van will get to about 80% of the places that we want to go. 

The van and the Land Cruiser get about the same mpg; roughly 13. 

We have stealth camped multiple times in the van and feel like we have blended in better than others but we may not be fooling anyone. 

We will be taking the van to Baja for Christmas and New Years this year. We have taken the Land Cruiser previously and are excited to take the van as it will be more comfortable.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

roverjohn said:


> Late to the game. 2003 E350 12 passenger here. Bought it 2 years ago as the wife always wanted a van. The previous owner put 4.56 gears in the rear end along with an ARB air locker. It's not 4wd but it will go places that a regular van cannot. The oversized Cooper Mud Terrains help too. I thought about adding 4wd to it but for now, it remains 2wd.
> 
> Do I wish the van was 4wd?...sometimes. Mostly for the low gearing in the t-case and not necessarily the traction since I have that with the locker. However, I have a fraction of the cost in my van of what a 4wd van costs.


Back when I was seriously into offroading, I found that a locker would take me a LOT of places that 4wd alone would not. Exception might be greasy mud or loose dirt uphill climbs where you need all 4 wheels pulling their own weight...but for almost everything else, simply not having one wheel spinning (locked) would take you really far. Plus you get better fuel economy with an unlocked rear than you do with a 4wd running in 2wd (drivetrain weight plus usually added height/more wind resistance)

And an auto _usually_ takes care of low speed needs..especially if you downshift the selector and put it in 1.


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## westwatercuban (May 19, 2021)

MT4Runner said:


> Back when I was seriously into offroading, I found that a locker would take me a LOT of places that 4wd alone would not. Exception might be greasy mud or loose dirt uphill climbs where you need all 4 wheels pulling their own weight...but for almost everything else, simply not having one wheel spinning (locked) would take you really far. Plus you get better fuel economy with an unlocked rear than you do with a 4wd running in 2wd (drivetrain weight plus usually added height/more wind resistance)
> 
> And an auto _usually_ takes care of low speed needs..especially if you downshift the selector and put it in 1.


Very rarely do I go into 4wd..and no it’s not because it’s broken MNichols!!!..lockers are a gift from god, will never own a truck without them.


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## lncoop (Sep 10, 2010)

okieboater said:


> Incoop,
> 
> Please tell us your decision to solve your transport problem. All of us opinion givers are wondering what you are going to do. And, thanks for spicing up the last few days reading the Buzz.


Mr. Dave, I'm probably at least a year away from pulling the trigger, but I really liked what Mikesee had to say and am now leaning even farther toward an AWD Transit. My dilemma and consequent delay are rooted in the fact that the vehicle I'd very much like to replace also happens to be the only vehicle in the motor pool with a note and most likely currently in a state of negative equity (ain't if funny how when you need to buy one they're worth a lot but when you need to sell one they're suddenly not?). It's also the bride's ride, and while she's very much open to the idea of a van she also likes her GX. So, at this point we're still in dream phase vs reality phase. I will definitely keep you buzzards posted though!


----------



## Taku (Apr 7, 2016)

Lived and camped out of a Honda Accord for 12 years, then moved up to pickups with toppers. Now graduated to a Tundra with an ATC shell I built out. Might have to move up to a van when I hit 70 in a few years for the comfort. Everyone has there own level of comfort they feel is needed, but always fun to see the builds.


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## okieboater (Oct 19, 2004)

Incoop,

Man, I understand. Hard to justify new vehicles these days. And, no change for several years is my guess.

My trusty 2012 Tacoma 4wd with shell has been perfect for my kayaking days. Not that perfect for rafting duty. Still running good but miles are getting up there to the point I have historically traded. My theory for what it is worth has been buy new, take good care and drive ten to fifteen years making long trips with no worries. I would like to have more covered space inside a bigger van than the Tacoma shell has. While the shell works, hard to beat just pulling up and crawling into a nice ready made bed. Not having to move gear around the shell for space for the paco pad is a treat.

Looking at prices tho, I just cannot justify the charges these days of high inflation and higher prices. 

Like you did, based on comments on the buzz I looked at Transit all wheel drive and while they look ideal, man the cost is unreal.

I remember my two self modified ford econoline vans from the 80's and man did they serve us well.
My positrac updates and shocks served me well on Arkansas back roads in the day. Meaning two wheel drive and a winch got me to where I needed to be most of the time. But these new Transit AWD models look nice.

Those Toyota GX vehicles are super nice and I fully understand why your better half likes her version. Again, back in the day, my kayaking bud had a tricked out Land Cruiser. Bullet proof and went places neither of us wanted to walk.

sigh, I also agree that it seems like when a person wants to trade vehicles trade in goes down and prices go up.


----------



## pmillerblaster (Jan 3, 2012)

lncoop said:


> Will definitely need AWD or even better 4x4.


Do you need AWD/4x4? I am sure this will spark debate but I wonder if you do. I went through this back in 2017, I bought a Promaster 118 and have taken it to almost every state in the west over the last 5 years. The Promaster is front wheel drive. I went deep into the world of 4x4 and have spent hours and hours learning about how it all works. I am no mechanical engineer so I am no expert but I have learned a lot and here are some thoughts. First off in 5+ years with the Promaster I have not gotten stuck once. I have also driven through/pulled my trailer/boat in/out of sections that I would have never thought the van would make it. One in particular on the John Day river when we got to the take out and I saw the road into it I looked at a friend and said there is ZERO chance the van is going to get into/out of this ramp. In the end the van crawled out of that ramp with trailer in tow with no issue at all. I have thousands of miles on gravel and rough roads and sketchy ramps and thousands of miles on paved roads in all weather conditions. What I have learned is how important tires are. As I went deep into the rabbit hole on this learning about how much tires affect your traction was an eye opener. And also learning about how 4x4 actually works and how diff locks work and all that jazz I have learned that there is so much more to it that simply saying 4x4 is barley even scratching the surface. I have also spent hours talking to true offroad fanatics about how much a 4x4 sprinter can actually do and reality is those vans are just not built do do anything much more than a fire service road. It is a fascinating topic to learn about. And I do also admit that knowing my van is only front wheel drive it makes me a bit more cautious so I can say for sure that it has kept me out of trouble because I know not to get into it. But if you are thinking 4x4 simply for better traction on the road I would really question if you need it. But maybe you need legit 4x4 with dif locks for real offroad but if that is the case I would say you don't want a van.

Also and I know this is going to get some heated debate but I wonder about something. 4x4 rigs are rear wheel drive when in 4x2. And I am talking just normal 4L/4H with no dif locks. When you click into 4H/4L you engage a wheel in the front giving you for the most part 2 wheel drive, one in the front and one in the back. Here is my curiosity, how many times when engaging 4x4 was needed was it needed because 4x2 is rear wheel drive? In other words if in that situation you had the ability to be in front wheel drive would you have needed to switch to 4x4?


----------



## okieboater (Oct 19, 2004)

2 wd with positrac works great for most of my off road adventures. No experience and none wanted with front wheel drive.

But there are often times when the only way to get up a hill, up a launch ramp or out of a muddy spot for me, the easy way to go is 4 wd. If really stuck, a winch of some sort can usually help - No matter 2 or 4 wd.

From a couple Utah brothers who were expert drivers in the gnar, I learned to engage 4wd, shift to lower gears and go really really slow for less damage and better traction.

4 wd is another convenience for me the more beat up my body gets. Just push the button or turn the bar. I am happy to pay extra for the cost up front and in increased mpg.


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## hysideguy67 (Jul 15, 2021)

The times I've been the most stuck (many) have almost always been in a 4x.... well, except for that time in San Felipe Mayhico in the middle of nowhere I had no business being in. Damn Tequila


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## lncoop (Sep 10, 2010)

pmillerblaster said:


> Do you need AWD/4x4? I am sure this will spark debate but I wonder if you do. I went through this back in 2017, I bought a Promaster 118 and have taken it to almost every state in the west over the last 5 years. The Promaster is front wheel drive. I went deep into the world of 4x4 and have spent hours and hours learning about how it all works. I am no mechanical engineer so I am no expert but I have learned a lot and here are some thoughts. First off in 5+ years with the Promaster I have not gotten stuck once. I have also driven through/pulled my trailer/boat in/out of sections that I would have never thought the van would make it. One in particular on the John Day river when we got to the take out and I saw the road into it I looked at a friend and said there is ZERO chance the van is going to get into/out of this ramp. In the end the van crawled out of that ramp with trailer in tow with no issue at all. I have thousands of miles on gravel and rough roads and sketchy ramps and thousands of miles on paved roads in all weather conditions. What I have learned is how important tires are. As I went deep into the rabbit hole on this learning about how much tires affect your traction was an eye opener. And also learning about how 4x4 actually works and how diff locks work and all that jazz I have learned that there is so much more to it that simply saying 4x4 is barley even scratching the surface. I have also spent hours talking to true offroad fanatics about how much a 4x4 sprinter can actually do and reality is those vans are just not built do do anything much more than a fire service road. It is a fascinating topic to learn about. And I do also admit that knowing my van is only front wheel drive it makes me a bit more cautious so I can say for sure that it has kept me out of trouble because I know not to get into it. But if you are thinking 4x4 simply for better traction on the road I would really question if you need it. But maybe you need legit 4x4 with dif locks for real offroad but if that is the case I would say you don't want a van.
> 
> Also and I know this is going to get some heated debate but I wonder about something. 4x4 rigs are rear wheel drive when in 4x2. And I am talking just normal 4L/4H with no dif locks. When you click into 4H/4L you engage a wheel in the front giving you for the most part 2 wheel drive, one in the front and one in the back. Here is my curiosity, how many times when engaging 4x4 was needed was it needed because 4x2 is rear wheel drive? In other words if in that situation you had the ability to be in front wheel drive would you have needed to switch to 4x4?


It's a fair question to be sure. In my neck of the woods we drive out onto gravel bars to launch and load boats, in my case (not always but usually) trailered boat(s). I've pulled enough RWD vans off said gravel bars to know I don't want to be in that situation. I've also been in someone else's FWD vehicle attempting to tow a trailer up a steep one lane gravel road and been forced to disconnect the trailer, drive to another vehicle then return for the trailer because there was zero chance the FWD vehicle was making it up the inclines with the trailer in tow. That made folks trying to get out of the same place we were trying to get out of super happy!  Fortunately boating peeps generally = friendly and understanding peeps. Anywho, I guess the answer to your question is more often than not no, but when it's yes it's really yes!


----------



## okieboater (Oct 19, 2004)

Arkansas creek gravel bars are really quicksand. They look like solid rock, but when driven on, tires will spin and sink down to the frame rails. 

That is one reason I had a winch and long chains my 2wd vans and eventually went to 4wd pickups.


----------



## westwatercuban (May 19, 2021)

pmillerblaster said:


> Do you need AWD/4x4? I am sure this will spark debate but I wonder if you do. I went through this back in 2017, I bought a Promaster 118 and have taken it to almost every state in the west over the last 5 years. The Promaster is front wheel drive. I went deep into the world of 4x4 and have spent hours and hours learning about how it all works. I am no mechanical engineer so I am no expert but I have learned a lot and here are some thoughts. First off in 5+ years with the Promaster I have not gotten stuck once. I have also driven through/pulled my trailer/boat in/out of sections that I would have never thought the van would make it. One in particular on the John Day river when we got to the take out and I saw the road into it I looked at a friend and said there is ZERO chance the van is going to get into/out of this ramp. In the end the van crawled out of that ramp with trailer in tow with no issue at all. I have thousands of miles on gravel and rough roads and sketchy ramps and thousands of miles on paved roads in all weather conditions. What I have learned is how important tires are. As I went deep into the rabbit hole on this learning about how much tires affect your traction was an eye opener. And also learning about how 4x4 actually works and how diff locks work and all that jazz I have learned that there is so much more to it that simply saying 4x4 is barley even scratching the surface. I have also spent hours talking to true offroad fanatics about how much a 4x4 sprinter can actually do and reality is those vans are just not built do do anything much more than a fire service road. It is a fascinating topic to learn about. And I do also admit that knowing my van is only front wheel drive it makes me a bit more cautious so I can say for sure that it has kept me out of trouble because I know not to get into it. But if you are thinking 4x4 simply for better traction on the road I would really question if you need it. But maybe you need legit 4x4 with dif locks for real offroad but if that is the case I would say you don't want a van.
> 
> Also and I know this is going to get some heated debate but I wonder about something. 4x4 rigs are rear wheel drive when in 4x2. And I am talking just normal 4L/4H with no dif locks. When you click into 4H/4L you engage a wheel in the front giving you for the most part 2 wheel drive, one in the front and one in the back. Here is my curiosity, how many times when engaging 4x4 was needed was it needed because 4x2 is rear wheel drive? In other words if in that situation you had the ability to be in front wheel drive would you have needed to switch to 4x4?


I’d argue you’re correct to an extent. It’s really all about the gear ratio and center of gravity. Most of the time, from my experience, 4wd/AWD vehicles have better gear ratios for off roading. Hands down would rather have it than not though. Also your resale value is much much higher on the back end. Win win on having it.


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## Will Amette (Jan 28, 2017)

lncoop said:


> It's a fair question to be sure. In my neck of the woods we drive out onto gravel bars to launch and load boats, in my case (not always but usually) trailered boat(s). I've pulled enough RWD vans off said gravel bars to know I don't want to be in that situation. I've also been in someone else's FWD vehicle attempting to tow a trailer up a steep one lane gravel road and been forced to disconnect the trailer, drive to another vehicle then return for the trailer because there was zero chance the FWD vehicle was making it up the inclines with the trailer in tow. That made folks trying to get out of the same place we were trying to get out of super happy!  Fortunately boating peeps generally = friendly and understanding peeps. Anywho, I guess the answer to your question is more often than not no, but when it's yes it's really yes!


Many years ago, while living in Utah, a friend came to visit. He rented a car that had 4wd. We drove out to Ladd Marsh to shoot clay targets. I was surprised how far he drove in. I finally told him to stop. When we got done, his rig had settled, and there was no way he was going to drive it out. He tried and made it worse. Once it was sunk up to the pumpkins, he shook his head and walked to a phone (this was before cell phones were a thing) and called a very expensive tow. Car rental company didn't need to know. When it was done, I looked at the tires on the rig, and yeah - no way they were going to do much. Kind of sad, but there was a lesson there.

I've been pleasantly surprised at how well my Tacoma does when it needs to. Seldom needs to, but when it does, it does. Worst is driving in and out of shaded corners when there's places with and without ice. I hate when the rear wheels decide they want to be in front, but I dare not run 4wd when I'm on pavement unless it's already slick.

Having 4wd and a rear locker would be the best thing since unsliced bread. Having it on a van? Could be better, except I get to smell the stinky boating clothes that otherwise are under the shell in the bed of the truck. Pulling over ANYWHERE to get a few hours sleep without getting out of the rig would be so sweet. Ability to make a cup of coffee without getting out of the rig in the morning would be frosting on the cake. Nah. I don't like cake. It would be the lime on the gin & tonic.


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## Randaddy (Jun 8, 2007)

https://goodguysmotorco.com/vdp/19044397/Used-2014-Chevrolet-Express-Passenger-AWD-1500-135-LT-for-sale-in-St-Cloud-MN-56301



Best Express on the market right now. Incoop, do you like green?


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## westwatercuban (May 19, 2021)

Randaddy said:


> https://goodguysmotorco.com/vdp/19044397/Used-2014-Chevrolet-Express-Passenger-AWD-1500-135-LT-for-sale-in-St-Cloud-MN-56301
> 
> 
> 
> Best Express on the market right now. Incoop, do you like green?


Get the fuck outa here! 43k!!!


----------



## mkashzg (Aug 9, 2006)

even if the numbers are backwards it’s still way too much!!😂


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## Randaddy (Jun 8, 2007)

I paid 39,999 before wheels, tires, roof rack, and seat covers in March. Mine had 24k on it and is pristine. Shit costs what it costs. Chevy stopped making the AWD in 2014, so new to low miles are extremely rare. This dealership buys them all and controls the market.

It's still cheaper than a similar mile Silverado, Suburban, or Escalade of the same vintage, though 4x4 usually costs more, as do fancy appointments. And lots cheaper than a 4x4 Sprinter, and with the Chevy 5.3!


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

It would seem that at Ford, quality is now problem #1... I wondered why they changed their slogan from "Built Ford Tough" to "Built Ford Proud"...









At Ford, Quality Is Now Problem 1


Ford used to tout the reliability of its vehicles in ads. After a string of recalls, the auto maker is trying to change how it finds problems.




www.wsj.com


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## hysideguy67 (Jul 15, 2021)

Randaddy said:


> I paid 39,999 before wheels, tires, roof rack, and seat covers in March. Mine had 24k on it and is pristine. Shit costs what it costs. Chevy stopped making the AWD in 2014, so new to low miles are extremely rare. This dealership buys them all and controls the market.
> 
> It's still cheaper than a similar mile Silverado, Suburban, or Escalade of the same vintage, though 4x4 usually costs more, as do fancy appointments. And lots cheaper than a 4x4 Sprinter, and with the Chevy 5.3!


Yeah, but you have a badass CIA stealth narco agent van. Screaming deal at $40k


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## Randaddy (Jun 8, 2007)

hysideguy67 said:


> Yeah, but you have a badass CIA stealth narco agent van. Screaming deal at $40k


I hope I can afford gas for the next 20 years with it!


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## BenSlaughter (Jun 16, 2017)




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## Infidien (May 27, 2013)

pmillerblaster said:


> Do you need AWD/4x4? I am sure this will spark debate but I wonder if you do...


Hauling dynamite up to the summer pasture to blow up beaver dams in the Willy's, grandad once told me "Go as far as you can in 2WD, then use 4WD to get home."


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## upacreek (Mar 17, 2021)

As an actual owner of a Ford E350 V8 Club Wagon (Quigley 4x4), the vehicle has proven both invaluable for river trips and giant pain in my wallet/ass. Its neither cheap to drive nor fix, but sure can be handy to have...say when Glenwood Canyon closes due to a monsoon rainstorm and ya gotta go over a very muddy Cottonwood Pass instead. For that particular adventure, from the Front Range out to Utah to run the San Juan in July, it delivered about 15.8 mpg (avg) fully loaded with AC rocking front & rear...so while its certainly not cheap to drive in terms of today's gas prices, it hauls 4-6 people and literally _all _the gear with aplomb. But these are privileges you certainly pay for, one way or another. Mine originally came from a church fleet with low miles, though it also had a lot of issues from neglected maintenance and it won't win any beauty contests either. However, I've been able to stealth park overnight in church parking lots even in busy places like Moab with nary anyone even noticing.

I have a friend who is an airplane mechanic, and he tells me that most pilots with their own plane assume it costs about 10-15% the value to keep it maintained every year. Well, I'm easily dropping between 20-30% annually to keep this van in good working/driving order. It sucks, but it's hard to get over these sunk costs: I'm in too deep already! Perhaps part of the problem with buying a used van, is that most folks who took good care of theirs are (like me) are hard-pressed to give all that up and sell it (so they ask *a lot*); which also means the market tends to be saturated by more moderately-priced lemons that have (likely) been abused. Further frustrating things are the clueless people and prospective Van Lifers out there that are constantly looking for mythical garage queens, along with their wildly unrealistic ideas about what its like to actually drive a van (handles like a bus, _not_ a car or truck). So if you dive into the used van market with your eyes open and a "you-get-what-you-pay-for" mentality, things will probably work out. But rarely do big dreams line up with the practicality and experience of actual van ownership.

Once I relented and tried to sell my van (pre-pandemic), but became entirely disillusioned by the effort due to all the tire-kickers and cheapskates. I was asking $20k and had _at least_ $20k in mechanic receipts to prove just how meticulously had maintained it, yet these clowns only wanted to make insulting lowball offers and whine about stuff any/every 20 year old vehicle has. But I recently got some affirmation as well as a dose of humility when bemoaned about cost of the last visit to the shop; where the owner sorta laughed at me and said "<pshaw>...just be glad you don't have a Sprinter, and never even consider one unless you're rich enough not to care whatsoever about repair costs". So now when I see a Ford van (esp 4x4) still on the road, running strong and looking good...I know its because the owner made a concerted effort. Whereas when I see some juiced-up Sprinter, I perceive a pay-to-play dilettante. In the end, if I had this all to do over again, along with the benefit of hindsight and today's van offerings; I'd finance a brand-new Transit AWD van with the Adventure Prep Package and build it out slowly myself. YMMV


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## mikesee (Aug 4, 2012)

MNichols said:


> It would seem that at Ford, quality is now problem #1... I wondered why they changed their slogan from "Built Ford Tough" to "Built Ford Proud"...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Isn't it exhausting to continually beat the same tired drum?


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## mikesee (Aug 4, 2012)

Randaddy said:


> https://goodguysmotorco.com/vdp/19044397/Used-2014-Chevrolet-Express-Passenger-AWD-1500-135-LT-for-sale-in-St-Cloud-MN-56301
> 
> 
> 
> Best Express on the market right now. Incoop, do you like green?




$43k for 10 year old technology. And you can't even stand up in it.

I paid $42k for my brand-new-with-warranty AWD Transit. That was right at the start of the pandemic and yes, I got really lucky.


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## mikesee (Aug 4, 2012)

pmillerblaster said:


> Do you need AWD/4x4? I am sure this will spark debate but I wonder if you do. I went through this back in 2017, I bought a Promaster 118 and have taken it to almost every state in the west over the last 5 years. The Promaster is front wheel drive. I went deep into the world of 4x4 and have spent hours and hours learning about how it all works. I am no mechanical engineer so I am no expert but I have learned a lot and here are some thoughts. First off in 5+ years with the Promaster I have not gotten stuck once. I have also driven through/pulled my trailer/boat in/out of sections that I would have never thought the van would make it. One in particular on the John Day river when we got to the take out and I saw the road into it I looked at a friend and said there is ZERO chance the van is going to get into/out of this ramp. In the end the van crawled out of that ramp with trailer in tow with no issue at all. I have thousands of miles on gravel and rough roads and sketchy ramps and thousands of miles on paved roads in all weather conditions. What I have learned is how important tires are. As I went deep into the rabbit hole on this learning about how much tires affect your traction was an eye opener. And also learning about how 4x4 actually works and how diff locks work and all that jazz I have learned that there is so much more to it that simply saying 4x4 is barley even scratching the surface. I have also spent hours talking to true offroad fanatics about how much a 4x4 sprinter can actually do and reality is those vans are just not built do do anything much more than a fire service road. It is a fascinating topic to learn about. And I do also admit that knowing my van is only front wheel drive it makes me a bit more cautious so I can say for sure that it has kept me out of trouble because I know not to get into it. But if you are thinking 4x4 simply for better traction on the road I would really question if you need it. But maybe you need legit 4x4 with dif locks for real offroad but if that is the case I would say you don't want a van.
> 
> Also and I know this is going to get some heated debate but I wonder about something. 4x4 rigs are rear wheel drive when in 4x2. And I am talking just normal 4L/4H with no dif locks. When you click into 4H/4L you engage a wheel in the front giving you for the most part 2 wheel drive, one in the front and one in the back. Here is my curiosity, how many times when engaging 4x4 was needed was it needed because 4x2 is rear wheel drive? In other words if in that situation you had the ability to be in front wheel drive would you have needed to switch to 4x4?



You bring up some good points: Tires matter. Not everyone needs AWD or 4WD. FWD can work in lots of places.

I've owned 2 Promasters. Setting aside all of the reliability issues I had, the only way those vans would have gotten me home every night all winter would have been to run chains. Which would not come close to fitting.


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## Randaddy (Jun 8, 2007)

mikesee said:


> $43k for 10 year old technology. And you can't even stand up in it.
> 
> I paid $42k for my brand-new-with-warranty AWD Transit. That was right at the start of the pandemic and yes, I got really lucky.


$42k for a weak V6. And you can't even go through the drive thru with it!  I'll keep the older tech for the power and reliability.


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## BenSlaughter (Jun 16, 2017)

Randaddy said:


> $42k for a weak V6. And you can't even go through the drive thru with it!  I'll keep the older tech for the power and reliability.


While I do think the Ecoboost is solid technology, you're right, it is still just a lil v6. When I run the numbers on what I'd demand on a rig, I know I'd just be yankin the guts out of it half the time. That's a recipe for high maintenance cost, limited lifespan.
One of the reasons I'm thinkin a 350 or 450 pickup with a custom camper box makes more sense for me...


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## westwatercuban (May 19, 2021)

Bought my f350 for $45k with 34k miles…I can tow more, and do more with it. 43k for a van that has an ied strapped to the steering wheel and less day to day practicality doesn’t add up. I guess if I had more money I could see having an extra car..but I hate keeping stuff that doesn't get use frequently.

Also..fun fact..the 5.3 v8 Chevy offers is 310 horse power…the 3.5 ecoboost offeres the same..v6 or not..she’s got the power


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## Randaddy (Jun 8, 2007)

westwatercuban said:


> Bought my f350 for $45k with 34k miles…I can tow more, and do more with it. 43k for a van that has an ied strapped to the steering wheel and less day to day practicality doesn’t add up. I guess if I had more money I could see having an extra car..but I hate keeping stuff that doesn't get use frequently.
> 
> Also..fun fact..the 5.3 v8 Chevy offers is 310 horse power…the 3.5 ecoboost offeres the same..v6 or not..she’s got the power


I thought about a 350, but this suits my lifestyle better. I bet you don't even feel a load with that truck!

The EcoBoost AWD Transit is quite a bit more expensive. I like them, just didn't want to wait a year and spend 55k. Short roof or not, I like the classic style of the Chevy, personally. To each their own, but I've driven the standard V6 Transit and it doesn't have enough power for my taste - and the Chevy AWD system has proven tough and reliable for decades.


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## westwatercuban (May 19, 2021)

Randaddy said:


> I thought about a 350, but this suits my lifestyle better. I bet you don't even feel a load with that truck!
> 
> The EcoBoost AWD Transit is quite a bit more expensive. I like them, just didn't want to wait a year and spend 55k. Short roof or not, I like the classic style of the Chevy, personally. To each their own, but I've driven the standard V6 Transit and it doesn't have enough power for my taste - and the Chevy AWD system has proven tough and reliable for decades.


It’s nice towing. Don’t feel the water tank in the bed of my truck, and borrowed a skid this weekend. Truck pulled it with no issues. Would have been a smoother ride if the trailer was a goose. Towing my motor boat it’s like she isn’t even there. Only complaint I have is I wish it was a long bed.


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## lncoop (Sep 10, 2010)

Randaddy said:


> https://goodguysmotorco.com/vdp/19044397/Used-2014-Chevrolet-Express-Passenger-AWD-1500-135-LT-for-sale-in-St-Cloud-MN-56301
> 
> 
> 
> Best Express on the market right now. Incoop, do you like green?


Aw man! Randaddy, you have done a very bad thing! My first "grown up" 4x4 pickup was a 2001 Sierra Z71 extended cab in a color very similar to that van. LOVED that truck - old skool 5.3 was solid, sexy and gutsy and the only issues I ever had were 1. fuel pump sending unit (endemic) and 2. burned up differential (owner stupidity). It's funny, I remember my wife at the time (who was nine months and change pregnated) telling me that despite my reservations we could indeed afford the $17k price tag! She was right of course. One thing was for sure, that little single cab Nissan was no longer a viable option under the circumstances, and I'd already vowed that was my first and last one. 

I digress. I will definitely keep tabs on these good guys. Now as I look at this van my first thought is that's only $2k more than we paid for the GX and it runs on 87, which is sometimes damned near $1/gallon less than what the GX drinks. $42k, while a lot of money, seems pretty darned reasonable in that context. In your real world experience what kind of mileage do you average in your rig?


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## lncoop (Sep 10, 2010)

Since it keeps coming up as part of the conversation I also feel compelled to address the matter of stealth (or in our case lack thereof). Not really a consideration for us as we'll most likely use it to advertise this. Arkansas Adventuregram We'll also probably try and find a way for the side hustle to fund it. Dreams, boys! Thanks a bunch and again for the input and keep it coming. So very very helpful (and enjoyable)!


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

lncoop said:


> Not really a consideration for us as we'll most likely use it to advertise this. Arkansas Adventuregram We'll also probably try and find a way for the side hustle to fund it.


Considering all the tax breaks the wealthy and politicians take, you may as well, too. The loopholes are already there..and why _shouldn't_ you use an adventure van to advertise an adventure business?

Pulling a number out of thin air, I'd bet that van gets 16mpg.


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## hysideguy67 (Jul 15, 2021)

lncoop said:


> Aw man! Randaddy, you have done a very bad thing! My first "grown up" 4x4 pickup was a 2001 Sierra Z71 extended cab in a color very similar to that van. LOVED that truck - old skool 5.3 was solid, sexy and gutsy and the only issues I ever had were 1. fuel pump sending unit (endemic) and 2. burned up differential (owner stupidity). It's funny, I remember my wife at the time (who was nine months and change pregnated) telling me that despite my reservations we could indeed afford the $17k price tag! She was right of course. One thing was for sure, that little single cab Nissan was no longer a viable option under the circumstances, and I'd already vowed that was my first and last one.
> 
> I digress. I will definitely keep tabs on these good guys. Now as I look at this van my first thought is that's only $2k more than we paid for the GX and it runs on 87, which is sometimes damned near $1/gallon less than what the GX drinks. $42k, while a lot of money, seems pretty darned reasonable in that context. In your real world experience what kind of mileage do you average in your rig?


Incoop- I have the same van, motor and tranny and have put 140k on it now. It's my daily driver and camp/rafting rig. 
Around town it's always a solid 15mpg. Highway is usually 18-19mpg but have seen over 20 on flats with a tailwind. Loaded with gear and trailering a raft it doesn't drop too much, probably back to the 14-15 range. Now a double stack..... that's a different story


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## lncoop (Sep 10, 2010)

hysideguy67 said:


> Incoop- I have the same van, motor and tranny and have put 140k on it now. It's my daily driver and camp/rafting rig.
> Around town it's always a solid 15mpg. Highway is usually 18-19mpg but have seen over 20 on flats with a tailwind. Loaded with gear and trailering a raft it doesn't drop too much, probably back to the 14-15 range. Now a double stack..... that's a different story


Okay, that's a much better number than I got from the googles and certainly adds a variable.


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## lncoop (Sep 10, 2010)

MT4Runner said:


> Considering all the tax breaks the wealthy and politicians take, you may as well, too. The loopholes are already there..and why _shouldn't_ you use an adventure van to advertise an adventure business?


My cinnamons exactly! What we can ethically pursue within that context as well as whether we might want to finance in the business name (or even obtain some grant funding - I'm told it's a viable possibility) is part of the leg work currently underway (in a very embryonic state).


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## hysideguy67 (Jul 15, 2021)

And I'm also curious what Randaddy has to say, with and without that sexy Hyside on top!


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## lncoop (Sep 10, 2010)

hysideguy67 said:


> And I'm also curious what Randaddy has to say, with and without that sexy Hyside on top!


Me too. I lit this fuse with his recent acquisition (the van, not the Hyside - I'm currently at full fleet capacity) very much top of mind!


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## Randaddy (Jun 8, 2007)

InCoop, the lifetime average for my van is 15. It was 14.5 when I got it. It spent its first 24k on a military base, probably idling and driving around town. I'm expecting to see 16 average over time.


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## lncoop (Sep 10, 2010)

I'm definitely going to keep an eye on the Goodguys offerings. Randaddy, is it fair to say you had a good experience with them? Also (to anyone with thoughts), we'll occasionally need space to seat six comfortably. That will be pretty rare, but when it happens it'll happen in spades. With that in mind it seems like it'd make the most sense to opt for the passenger configuration with the understanding that all but the front seats would be stored most of the time but account for the times we'd need them when building out. Does that sound like a reasonable approach? I don't anticipate any mods that would require excessive time and effort to remove then put back as needed. I like options. .


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## okieboater (Oct 19, 2004)

The only problem I had with van seats going in and out of the van, was seat storage space. Depending on the seat design some seats take up a lot of storage space. The big recliners type seats are super nice when traveling, easy to take naps for the passengers.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

I know of a 99 5.8 L Chevy van going to be sold cheap up here in Montana.


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

MT4Runner said:


> I know of a 99 5.8 L Chevy van going to be sold cheap up here in Montana.


A step up from what you've got.. Hmmmm....


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

I can connect you with the seller.


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## lncoop (Sep 10, 2010)

MT4Runner said:


> I can connect you with the seller.


Interesting. You happen to know what the drive train is?


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

MT4Runner said:


> I can connect you with the seller.


I'm not needing another vehicle. Actually quite pleased with my rooftop tent / awning I put on the big truck.. But thanks LOL


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

lncoop said:


> Interesting. You happen to know what the drive train is?


2wd, will see if 1/2T or 3/4T



MNichols said:


> I'm not needing another vehicle. Actually quite pleased with my rooftop tent / awning I put on the big truck.. But thanks LOL


Don’t you need an Instagram account before a rooftop tent?


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

MT4Runner said:


> 2wd, will see if 1/2T or 3/4T
> 
> 
> Don’t you need an Instagram account before a rooftop tent?


Absolutely NOTHING to do with anything Facecrack and Fuckerberg.. He has plenty of data without mining and selling mine..


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## westwatercuban (May 19, 2021)

MT4Runner said:


> 2wd, will see if 1/2T or 3/4T
> 
> 
> Don’t you need an Instagram account before a rooftop tent?


He already has one! He’s Instagram is love2be_RAMed


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

westwatercuban said:


> He already has one! He’s Instagram is love2be_RAMed


OMG, really 🤣😂...

You've been out in the sun too long my friend...


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

lncoop said:


> Interesting. You happen to know what the drive train is?


1/2T
































I think they’d take $2,500. “180k miles, runs great”

working out a battery drain issue


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

MT4Runner said:


> 1/2T
> View attachment 80558
> 
> View attachment 80555
> ...


Wow, that's really clean considering its age, and pretty damn hard to beat that price for anything that starts and drives.. 

Parasitic drains on a battery are pretty easy to figure out in the older vehicles. Put an amp clamp around the positive lead from the battery, look at what the draw is, and start pulling fuses until the draw goes away. When the draw goes away, you found your culprit..


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## hysideguy67 (Jul 15, 2021)

I have me a nice Chevy van. I live in it 45 nights a year. She makes me happy. Quit it or start something new


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## hysideguy67 (Jul 15, 2021)

Regardless, the Rona altered some van plans. Closing open spaces and river access and campgrounds? I'm sure someone can enlighten me with bountiful logical reasons why that made sense. We didn't abide but still got tons of river and van time in


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## Mikec (Mar 8, 2019)

Bummed that the thread went to the dark side…. I’m a 6’1” Toyota guy, really wish they sold a full-sized diesel 4wd van here in the US. That said, I stumbled upon a wrecked 2018 mid-height 148” Transit 250 Ecoboost with 20k that had already been Quigley’ed. I bought it from the insurance company in January 2021 for way less than the Quigley conversion cost. I’m a mechanical engineer, and very decently mechanical, but not a mechanic, so this was a big project. The pandemic presented me with quite a bit of spare time, like many people. My HOA was not impressed, but my immediate neighbors were ok with my driveway pandemic project for 6-8 weeks last year. My time & labor, and somewhere around $4-5k in used parts has me almost embarrassed to tell this story. I just hit 31k miles on the way home from Salida/BV this weekend and I’m beyond happy with it. It has impressive power and gets better mpg than the Tundra. It’s modestly built-out, mostly with thrift store finds and CL bargains(Renogy solar system and Dometic fridge/freezer). I fit side-to-side sleeping on a modified queen mattress wedged in the back. The mattress sits on the repurposed trailer ramp, hanging from the factory D-rings. There is ample storage below. The gist of this rambling post(beyond myself patting my own back!) is that there are many ways to get what you want/need, without spending a shit-ton of money. Regarding the 4wd…, the .1% of the time you need it, you’re happy to have it. I’m 6’1”, can mostly stand straight up, and I sleep very comfortably. I’m a side sleeper with legs bent, but can fully stretch out when it’s time. I still want a Toyota, tho. Cheers!!


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## westwatercuban (May 19, 2021)

hysideguy67 said:


> Regardless, the Rona altered some van plans. Closing open spaces and river access and campgrounds? I'm sure someone can enlighten me with bountiful logical reasons why that made sense. We didn't abide but still got tons of river and van time in


One word..tyranny


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

Mikec said:


> Bummed that the thread went to the dark side…. I’m a 6’1” Toyota guy, really wish they sold a full-sized diesel 4wd van here in the US. That said, I stumbled upon a wrecked 2018 mid-height 148” Transit 250 Ecoboost with 20k that had already been Quigley’ed. I bought it from the insurance company in January 2021 for way less than the Quigley conversion cost. I’m a mechanical engineer, and very decently mechanical, but not a mechanic, so this was a big project. The pandemic presented me with quite a bit of spare time, like many people. My HOA was not impressed, but my immediate neighbors were ok with my driveway pandemic project for 6-8 weeks last year. My time & labor, and somewhere around $4-5k in used parts has me almost embarrassed to tell this story. I just hit 31k miles on the way home from Salida/BV this weekend and I’m beyond happy with it. It has impressive power and gets better mpg than the Tundra. It’s modestly built-out, mostly with thrift store finds and CL bargains(Renogy solar system and Dometic fridge/freezer). I fit side-to-side sleeping on a modified queen mattress wedged in the back. The mattress sits on the repurposed trailer ramp, hanging from the factory D-rings. There is ample storage below. The gist of this rambling post(beyond myself patting my own back!) is that there are many ways to get what you want/need, without spending a shit-ton of money. Regarding the 4wd…, the .1% of the time you need it, you’re happy to have it. I’m 6’1”, can mostly stand straight up, and I sleep very comfortably. I’m a side sleeper with legs bent, but can fully stretch out when it’s time. I still want a Toyota, tho. Cheers!!


Pics?


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## Will Amette (Jan 28, 2017)

Hey, man, did anyone else get that message from MB that laid out some renewed guidelines?

Maybe I'm the only one who read it.

Maybe it will come out again.

Wouldn't it be nice if MB was about mountains and the streams that flow from them rather than some of the streams that flow from some of us?

Please?


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## lncoop (Sep 10, 2010)

MT4Runner said:


> Pics?


What he said! This is all stuff that's super helpful now and that I'll refer back to come trigger pullin' time! This is gonna be even more fun than rigging out the rafts, especially now that I'm walking this earth with someone equally enthusiastic about these kinds of shenanigans. My first wife, while generally a decent person, didn't care for my ramblin' ways nor my penchant for spending as much time outdoors as possible. In fact, she was down right - wait for it - vitriolic when it came time for her to articulate her thoughts on the matter. And for that matter, other - matters.


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## Mikec (Mar 8, 2019)

MT4Runner said:


> Pics?
> 
> The day it was delivered, and this morning. Like so many people, I’ve had many camping iterations. I’ve slept on the ground, on a cot, in the back of a couple suvs, in a truck bed(with and without a topper), and an RTT mounted on my raft trailer(I liked that set up a lot). The van was stripped on the inside when I bought it, but did have the side windows, roof vents, and a heavy duty floor with multiple L-track runs front to back. I increased the tire size to LT245/75r16(9% increase in circumference), but rough washboard roads still rattle my fillings loose.


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## Mikec (Mar 8, 2019)

lncoop said:


> What he said! This is all stuff that's super helpful now and that I'll refer back to come trigger pullin' time! This is gonna be even more fun than rigging out the rafts, especially now that I'm walking this earth with someone equally enthusiastic about these kinds of shenanigans. My first wife, while generally a decent person, didn't care for my ramblin' ways nor my penchant for spending as much time outdoors as possible. In fact, she was down right - wait for it - vitriolic when it came time for her to articulate her thoughts on the matter. And for that matter, other - matters.


Kinda sounds like my ex as well!


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

lncoop said:


> she was down right - wait for it - vitriolic when it came time for her to articulate her thoughts on the matter. And for that matter, other - matters.


She got pissed when you left toast crumbs in the butter, didn't she? 

Ah the humanity!


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## lncoop (Sep 10, 2010)

MT4Runner said:


> She got pissed when you left toast crumbs in the butter, didn't she?
> 
> Ah the humanity!


Ha! She pretty well stayed pissed. In her defense I'm not for everyone.


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## lncoop (Sep 10, 2010)

So, the vantasy came up in conversation this week and my sweetie wanted to know why I wasn't thinking more seriously about it. I told her it probably wasn't financially viable at present, but as we kicked it around it occurred to me if we were to throw both our current vehicles at it it just might be. Without going into details cause they're not really all that relevant to this discussion I'll just say I think we'd actually come out quite a bit ahead if I play my cards right. If not I'll just back up and punt and continue to be grateful for what we have for now. 

Anywho, here are my new questions. I still like the Transit a lot, but I'm finding much more AWD Express/Savanna inventory in the upper 20s to upper 30s price range with odometer readings under 70k. Guys, this is kinda tempting. The main question I have for those of you who have personal experience - what kind of reliability issues might I need to consider? I used to be a huge fan of the Vortec, but I haven't had one in years. I'm sure there have been some redesigns. Good, bad and ugly? What else should I consider? I'm actually getting a little more cereal about this than I thought I would.


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## Big_B (Feb 17, 2019)

lncoop said:


> So, the vantasy came up in conversation this week and my sweetie wanted to know why I wasn't thinking more seriously about it. I told her it probably wasn't financially viable at present, but as we kicked it around it occurred to me if we were to throw both our current vehicles at it it just might be. Without going into details cause they're not really all that relevant to this discussion I'll just say I think we'd actually come out quite a bit ahead if I play my cards right. If not I'll just back up and punt and continue to be grateful for what we have for now.
> 
> Anywho, here are my new questions. I still like the Transit a lot, but I'm finding much more AWD Express/Savanna inventory in the upper 20s to upper 30s price range with odometer readings under 70k. Guys, this is kinda tempting. The main question I have for those of you who have personal experience - what kind of reliability issues might I need to consider? I used to be a huge fan of the Vortec, but I haven't had one in years. I'm sure there have been some redesigns. Good, bad and ugly? What else should I consider? I'm actually getting a little more cereal about this than I thought I would.


I have a 2018 15 passenger Express with the 6.0 gas. Its pretty new but haven't had any issues other than being a little squeaky and rattling down the road. I have friends with Transit and sprinter vans. They seem super nice but are incredibly expensive for what you get IMHO.


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## hysideguy67 (Jul 15, 2021)

Mine, '06 5.3L AWD. Bought in 2010 with 120k on the clock and now at 236k. It was a fleet van set up to haul O2/medical supplies. The only "major" repair I've done is a power steering rack at 150k. Other than that just regular oil and tyranny service. Uses about 1qt oil every 3k miles. Had it aligned when I first bought it and 3 sets of tires have all worn perfectly. I can't speak to repairs or service before I bought it


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## lncoop (Sep 10, 2010)

Interesting development. I think ultimately we'd be pretty happy with a Savanna, Express or Connect, but I'd determined we'd probably end up with an Express because there are more of those available in my price range than anything else. However, this afternoon in the midst of a search for Transit 150s I stumbled onto quite a few 250s. I can't find a difference other than another 500 or so pounds. I do like the additional head room. I think the Transit 250 is worth considering!


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