# First Middle Fork of the Salmon Trip



## Anchorless (Aug 3, 2010)

With this spring, you might not have any snow or high runoff (it might all happen this month).


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## Avatard (Apr 29, 2011)

You will probably have to float Marsh Creek because of the road to Boundary may not be open

Look at the regression curves. Its said that if you catch it on the downslope it can be safer because you don't have to worry about giant trees getting washed alongside

They will let you cancel at the last minute if the level is unsafe. After doing research you may wanna do that earlier instead of later if its a concern

High water it can definately be class iii-IV solid until velvet


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## 6FEETandRISING (Feb 15, 2012)

Anchorless said:


> With this spring, you might not have any snow or high runoff (it might all happen this month).



Yeah could very well be true. My guess is this year the road to boundary will be open well before your launch date. But we could easily plunge into a cold spring that brings us some more snow and stops the melting. Check out the NOAA seasonal forecast. As far as water levels go around 6 feet is when people start thinking about maybe not going, especially those whom haven't run the river before. It can be really wild if you can't sneak Velvet falls to the left and you have to run it. That rapid probably creates the most carnage that time of the year. There is a good hole about 1 mile downstream (Murphs) that has been known to catch people off guard and has also flipped a sweepboat. If you are a savy high water boater as are the rest of the people in your group you will most likely be fine. But should be able to prepare and react to carnage at all times. Some rapids in the lower canyon become massive (cliffside) A good guide book is the one by Matt Leidecker, analyzes every freaking rock and riffle in the river, but it will give you a good idea what to have to contend with.


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## raftus (Jul 20, 2005)

May 31st and the road to boundary might be open. Hard to know for a while. If you haven't already joined the Idaho Whitewater Yahoo group - do it now. You will find posts there about the correlation on the Banner snotel site and the road to Boundary opening.

Marsh Creek is mostly continuous class II-III, but, and this is a big but, it is full of blind corners and sometimes river-wide trees and logs forming potential death traps. Sadly people have died rafting on Marsh. However by late May several parties will have likely rafted down and posted reports about the wood situation - although it can and may change. There are several avalanche paths that end on Marsh Creek so as the snow melts they can release trees into the river. If you have capable class IV-V boaters in kayaks or lightly loaded cats running 10-15 minutes in front of the gear rafts with waterproof radios you can add a significant margin of safety to your trip down Marsh.

High water on the Middle Fork can be a lot of fun - if you are comfortable with high water class IV. It gets faster, eddies disappear, camps disappear, huge waves and holes form. Some rapids do wash out, others just get bigger. PM me if you have more questions - I've done several mid to late May trips - they have been a blast.


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## dirtbagkayaker (Oct 29, 2008)

There a real good chance that you'll drive into boundry this year. Yes you'll be looking at high water but only time will tell how high. I'm going out there and making a prediction of 5.324 feet. Sunny and warm.


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## galljr13 (Apr 13, 2012)

Thanks for all the replies and PMs!


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## floatingk (Aug 5, 2008)

oh man, the impassable canyon is like a friggen interstate at high water, its the most amazing thing. Eddy dodging....


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## bucketboater (Jul 9, 2012)

Avatard said:


> You will probably have to float Marsh Creek because of the road to Boundary may not be open
> 
> Look at the regression curves. Its said that if you catch it on the downslope it can be safer because you don't have to worry about giant trees getting washed alongside
> 
> ...


 Ran june 5th two years ago at 6' It was chit show.Meet up with a crew who had lost a boat(Found 3 days later at the bottom of cramer) at murphs and were flying out at the strip. Ran into a few groups with sad stories of broken spirits and lost gear.Not that this is a hard run but to call it a 3-4 seems light.I just read of posts on the rogue saying it was solid 4 and I've had friends run that in 7' fish finders with no problem. 
Theres lots of options for flips and boats seem to run for awhile. I'd call any trip in may or early june a solid four, bring a drysuit. Forget who posted on you tube but he's got play by play narative with some flips,great vid look it up .


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## Avatard (Apr 29, 2011)

bucketboater said:


> Ran june 5th two years ago at 6' It was chit show.Meet up with a crew who had lost a boat(Found 3 days later at the bottom of cramer) at murphs and were flying out at the strip. Ran into a few groups with sad stories of broken spirits and lost gear.Not that this is a hard run but to call it a 3-4 seems light.I just read of posts on the rogue saying it was solid 4 and I've had friends run that in 7' fish finders with no problem.
> Theres lots of options for flips and boats seem to run for awhile. I'd call any trip in may or early june a solid four, bring a drysuit. Forget who posted on you tube but he's got play by play narative with some flips,great vid look it up .


There are like four named rapids on the Rogue and unless you run Rainey (and not the class ii fish ladder) there is just a class IV at Blossom (with death a likely consequence if you fall out of your boat, get tangled in a rope, get pushed into an undercut, or die of a heart attack. For most the consequence is oh shit who has a z drag and where are those kayakers when you need them.

To me, a description of solid 3-4 means just that. The eddies if you can find them are the threes. they can be tricky to reach and if you flip you will swim a long ways without support. The rogue (save for a few times a year) is solid class 1 with occasional 2's and threes

There is a reason the MF doesn't penalize you if you cancel before you launch and the level is over 5'

June 5 is typically the peak and you will get all sorts of river hazards to deal with. End of may is usually pre-peak, which is not as safe as the same water flow on the way down.


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## bucketboater (Jul 9, 2012)

Avatard said:


> There are like four named rapids on the Rogue and unless you run Rainey (and not the class ii fish ladder) there is just a class IV at Blossom (with death a likely consequence if you fall out of your boat, get tangled in a rope, get pushed into an undercut, or die of a heart attack. For most the consequence is oh shit who has a z drag and where are those kayakers when you need them.
> 
> To me, a description of solid 3-4 means just that. The eddies if you can find them are the threes. they can be tricky to reach and if you flip you will swim a long ways without support. The rogue (save for a few times a year) is solid class 1 with occasional 2's and threes
> 
> ...


Agreed with the above, but he asked what it would be like on may 31.Id say solid class four,cold water, few eddies,rainy at times,bigger then avg water and fun. Not trying to get into it, but I saw tons of class 3-4 boaters(aire and maravia owners) get beat up. Never been on a river trip with so many boaters in way over there heads and underprepared.Lookin forward to my june 5th launch


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## Avatard (Apr 29, 2011)

I notice you didn't mention Sotar owners


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## Avatard (Apr 29, 2011)

Here is your regression graph



Draw your own conclusions for this year

http://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/fsbdev3_029251.pdf


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## carvedog (May 11, 2005)

bucketboater said:


> Ran june 5th two years ago at 6' It was chit show.Meet up with a crew who had lost a boat(Found 3 days later at the bottom of cramer) at murphs and were flying out at the strip. Ran into a few groups with sad stories of broken spirits and lost gear.Not that this is a hard run but to call it a 3-4 seems light.I just read of posts on the rogue saying it was solid 4 and I've had friends run that in 7' fish finders with no problem.
> Theres lots of options for flips and boats seem to run for awhile. I'd call any trip in may or early june a solid four, bring a drysuit. Forget who posted on you tube but he's got play by play narative with some flips,great vid look it up .





bucketboater said:


> Agreed with the above, but he asked what it would be like on may 31.Id say solid class four,cold water, few eddies,rainy at times,bigger then avg water and fun. Not trying to get into it, but I saw tons of class 3-4 boaters(aire and maravia owners) get beat up. Never been on a river trip with so many boaters in way over there heads and underprepared.Lookin forward to my june 5th launch


All depends on the flow dudn't it?
It could be a solid class 4 dry suit run but at this point it is very unlikely. 

In 2007 I launched June 1st with my four year old daughter on her first trip. The flow was 3.35 and she slept completely through Velvet and Haystack among others. The kids also swam especially in the lower canyon as the water warmed up a bit. Not trying to start anything either but there was no class 4 to be had except for maybe Lake Creek which was still in play with the log dodging. I did have her walk that one.

We have nearly identical snowpack looking at the snotels in the area. The snotel doesn't tell the whole story though and the low elevation snow may be in worse shape than it was in 2007. And they are calling for at least another five days with highs into the low 60s. Funny but Ketchum and Banner summit have almost the same exact weather - temp wise anyway. And when it starts hitting high 50s to 60s on Banner the snow comes off. 

As for two years ago did you launch on Marsh Creek? That was the exceptionally long spring when the road didn't open until June 15th. Perhaps the year before which had a huge spike around that time and caused many people to rethink spring boating in Idaho. Many cancellations, flights out and lost boats and gear. It was nearly nine feet. That was after a three day snowstorm and accumulated 1-2 feet of snow got rained on and the temps came up quickly. 

At six feet Murphs and Velvet are definitely in play. Pistol is always weird and Lower Cliffside is about as big as it gets. Much fun to be had.


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## tmacc (Sep 6, 2009)

Just a little FYI.....
Ron Abramovich , NRCS, should have a new water report out soon, but according to their analysis, last month the MF water outlook was a lot like '02.

MF Salmon Streamflow | Idaho NRCS
Click on Stream Flow Graphs: MF Salmon River. It looks like the MF was about 5.5ish' on 5/31 on this graph.

Deadwood Summit Snotel was 38.4'' on this date in '02. It's 37.4'' today. In '07 on this date, it was 32.3".

According to this comparison graph,

http://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/stelprdb5364381.pdf

...the MF was about 5' and going up on May 31, '02.......but, we are months away and who know what could happen. 2'' of rain could 
happen on May 30th. 

Since '07 was brought up, we ran it for the first time on 6/17/07. It was about 2.7-8' and it was a fun time. We launched last year on 6/11, at 4.2' going up to 4.6-7' and it was really fun. Pushy for sure the first day. Keep your weight down.

We launch on 6/20 this year. Might be around 4'.


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## galljr13 (Apr 13, 2012)

I'm not too concerned about the weather or water temp. Here in the Vail area, early spring, I usually wear a wetsuit and dry top plus helmet and solid booties. 

Spoke to a few locals in the Stanley, Idaho area and they all agree that with out any freak significant snow storm, the water is going to be lower than average and that I should have little to no problem getting to the put in on May 31st. What is an ideal water level range?

I usually run a fairly light boat considering. I row and have two strong paddlers in the front with a well balanced 16ft boat front to rear. No more gear than necessary.

Thank for all the info!!!


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## wildh2onriver (Jul 21, 2009)

galljr13 said:


> I'm not too concerned about the weather or water temp. Here in the Vail area, early spring, I usually wear a wetsuit and dry top plus helmet and solid booties.
> 
> Spoke to a few locals in the Stanley, Idaho area and they all agree that with out any freak significant snow storm, the water is going to be lower than average and that I should have little to no problem getting to the put in on May 31st. What is an ideal water level range?
> 
> ...


My favorite level was 5.5, but that was in an 18' cat. A 16' with bow paddlers should be no problem.


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## spider (Jun 20, 2011)

Avatard said:


> Here is your regression graph
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thats a great graph. How do I find it for the lower salmon?


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## Avatard (Apr 29, 2011)

spider said:


> Thats a great graph. How do I find it for the lower salmon?


Not sure it exists. Its assembled by the 4 rivers lottery peeps so people can make informed decisions regarding permit selection dates

Why you wanna run the lower salmon? Did you get skunked on permits?


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## spider (Jun 20, 2011)

Avatard said:


> Not sure it exists. Its assembled by the 4 rivers lottery peeps so people can make informed decisions regarding permit selection dates
> 
> Why you wanna run the lower salmon? Did you get skunked on permits?


skunked bad. No permits in our group of 8 applicants. I have friends coming in from all over the place for a trip. We are going to hit LS and then Lochsa, beartrap, gally and finish out on the mellowstone. starting on june 27. All rivers I have never done, cept YS.


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## mtriverrat (Jan 29, 2012)

Did a trip on that date a few years ago. Woke up at Boundary Creek with a few inches of snow on the tent. Sliding the raft down the ramp was a challenge and a swim at Velvet was as cold as I ever want to get, but it was warm after that and the best trip ever. Have fun. Stay at Sheepeaters if you can. Loon Creek looked great too.


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## gonetogamehenge (May 17, 2009)

*June 5th Launch*

We launch June 5th and I've been watching this thread for info. Thanks for all of the helpful links.


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## DangerousDave (Apr 11, 2007)

*Middle Fork*

We're launching on the 31st as well. I've never run it before so I appreciate all the advice here.

I have a cooler loading question. We'll have 2 rafts and each will have a cooler so I plan on using one as the frozen food cooler and one as the cold food cooler. I'd like to stack meat in the frozen food cooler organized by the day we plan to cook it so we don't have to root around. Will the meat in the bottom of the cooler stay frozen for 5 or 6 days if the cooler is drained daily and only opened briefly to move food to the cold food cooler to thaw overnight for the next dinner?

Also, does anyone have any advice for loading 8-gallon kegs in a raft?

Thanks!


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## Avatard (Apr 29, 2011)

DangerousDave said:


> We're launching on the 31st as well. I've never run it before so I appreciate all the advice here.
> 
> I have a cooler loading question. We'll have 2 rafts and each will have a cooler so I plan on using one as the frozen food cooler and one as the cold food cooler. I'd like to stack meat in the frozen food cooler organized by the day we plan to cook it so we don't have to root around. Will the meat in the bottom of the cooler stay frozen for 5 or 6 days if the cooler is drained daily and only opened briefly to move food to the cold food cooler to thaw overnight for the next dinner?
> 
> ...


My advice is to find the largest sealed container that will fit in your cooler, and pre make your own jugs of ice using a chest freezer set to the lowest temp it can cool to. 

All your food items should be pre frozen in your chest freezer at least a week before the trip. Same goes for all the jugs.

You can pre chill the cooler before packing with a bag of cubed ice the night before you load your food.


Then while on the trip, dont open your freezer cooler for anything more than to pull out your thaw meat. That includes NOT draining your cooler as you won't have water in the bottom of it, and the jugs of ice/water still have the ability to cool (more so than cold air) until the ice is all gone and the water in the jugs gets above 40 degrees

I find a gallon a day is minimum. More if you have space after you have put all your meat and frozen items. You can always add cubed ice in ziplocks to fill out the top of the cooler.

Besides, the jugs contain clean cold free drinking water -- why would you want to waste this resource?

Open the cooler every night and take out your next nights meal so it can thaw in the day cooler, and it will act like a bit of ice for your day cooler.

Keep the cooler out of the sun. A paco pad helps shade it and provides added insulation. If you have something like a wet towel you can drape over the cooler it will keep the exterior colder (evaporation) which will slow the rate of heat absorption. Use a supersoaker every few hours to keep the towel wet. The evaporation is pulling heat out of the walls of your cooler, which makes the ice last longer

This trick also works for the drive to the river. All that air will cause evaporation (if you stop to re soak the towel) keeping your ice intact during the long drive. Be sure to use straps so you don't lose your towel.

If you follow these guidelines you should have at least enough ice to guarantee frozen meat on day 6. You may even decide to drink some of that ice cold water or transfer some of the jugs to the other cooler on Day 4 if there are no issues


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## dirtbagkayaker (Oct 29, 2008)

I don't think it will be this high but here is a taste.

MIddle Fork of the Salmon River, Boundary Creek to past Murph's Hole 6.66' 6/16/2011 - YouTube

Chasing flipped boat through Velvet Falls at 6.66' - Middle Fork of the Salmon River - YouTube


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