# Verde river and AZ beta



## RiverMamma (May 3, 2009)

So yeah, there are a couple of day options above Beasley Flats with easy access including White Bridge and Clear Creek. 

The Beasley to Childs section will be fine for intermediate boaters, Verde Falls is the biggest rapid, but there is plenty of safe recovery pool after it if there is carnage. The main thing about the Verde is TREES. Be strainer aware and know that you will have lots of trees to deal with. We just ran it a few weeks ago at 1,400 cfs & the trees of death situation was a little sketch ball with the high water! But with flows being more normal for your trip (200-300) you should be fine, just keep a heads up.  Also, the road to the Childs takeout is looong & heinous & kills trailers if you are not careful... just fyi. Go to this link for info & to download a fantastic map from Beasley down! 

As far as the Oak Creek goes, good luck with the flows... it flashed HUGE right before we got there & was back down to about 50cfs by the time we got to it. It Could be running in the end of March, Flagstaff has gotten some decent snow this winter, so you might get lucky on it! 

Camping! There is LOTS of free Forest Service camping just outside of Sedona. Take I17 South from Flag to exit 298, HWY179. You can either turn left from the exit and are immediately on dirt FS roads, or turn right & head closer into Sedona & take your pick of dirt FS roads all along the HWY there. In the morning, Camp Verde is just a quick 15-20 min jaunt from there! 

Also, if you are making the trek all the way out from CO, I would recommend hitting up the Salt while your at it! It's about a 3 1/2 hour drive from Camp Verde, And Totally Worth It! You can camp & just run the class III day section, and I Highly Recommend It! You just have to pay an Apache permit, but it's not much & there are little self pay envalopes right there.

Anyways, I hope some of this info helps. Feel free to bombard me with any other questions you might have, & have an Awesome trip!!!


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## RiverMamma (May 3, 2009)

ug, apparently my link didn't work. Trying again... Verde River Info & Map


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## RiverMamma (May 3, 2009)

BTW, I have a Verde Map for above Beasley, but I can't seem to find it, or figure out where I got it from... though I know it is a FS map, I just can't find that link. As far as the day stretches go, I haven't used White Bridge, so I don't know what the access is like, but the Clear Creek access is super easy, & it's a short float, but also a short shuttle, & can easily be a looong afternoon at low water with high winds (there really isn't much in the way of moving current...) But it is Lovely! You will see a brown FS sign saying "Clear Creek," on the Beasley Flats Road (though the turn off from hwy 260 is like "salt Mine Rd" or something like that, but it turns into Beasley Flats Rd.) There is a parking lot there, & you can just walk hard boats down, or if you've got more to rig (raft or what not) you can drive around & down, it just takes a minute to figure out. If you put in at White Bridge, this might be a good takeout too if it turns into too long of a day... Also, just so you know there is no camping at Beasley. And though there is FS around Camp Verde, I (personally) prefer camping closer to Sedona... it's just nicer, & really not that far... Anyways, I'll see if I can figure out that other map for you...


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## bobbuilds (May 12, 2007)

thank you very much, that is what i'm looking for. i appreciate the camping options and will be doing so. We are excited to go down there, it is a beautiful area.

I hope to catch the flow window this time, for oak, and the verde. 

thank you


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## RiverMamma (May 3, 2009)

No problem! Like I said, feel free to ask if you think of any other questions! You might luck out on Oak Creek flows... but the Verde will be low, it blew it's load already, it has a much lower water shed than Oak Creek & the Salt. They all flash flooded a few weeks ago, the Salt & Oak Creek still have good snow pack & will run again, but the Verde is done. That's why we made a mad dash out there to catch it! It peaked at 12,000 cfs (yup, 12,000 holey scary batman!) We caught it on the down side at about 1,400 cfs Jan 31 put in, & took out at about 800 cfs Feb 2, & it was Awesome!!!  Don't worry though, it will still be a great run at 200-300 cfs, that's more normal flows, and the trees won't be as terrifying! I really do highly recommend hitting up the Salt day stretch while your in that neck of the woods, & it will be flowing then. Whatever you end up running, Have a Blast!!!


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## RiverMamma (May 3, 2009)

Here is a picture of Verde Falls Feb. 1, 2013 about 1,200 cfs!


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## jmacn (Nov 20, 2010)

The various put-in options above Beasley Flats are near flat water and scenic, although you will be floating past homes and ranches. There are a few brushy turns here and there and cobble bars, but should be no problem for beginners unless you arrive to high water. Beasley down is beautiful and totally undeveloped with a good many fun rapids. I think 250 is the bottom end of totally worth it fun, but it goes much lower. Childs is not the typical day trip takeout however. Gap Creek is the much more common take out due to the shorter shuttle (1 hr round trip from Beasley). This run is about 1/2 the length of the run to Childs, but contains 90% of the named rapids. It does require about 1/2 mile walk up an easy trail to the parking area. 

If you've never been I'd say go all the way to Childs because it's beautiful and there is a hot spring right above the takeout. Be aware that it is a very long day on the water to get down there at low water so Gap might be more realistic depending on how much time you have. Good luck catching Oak Creek or any of the countless other beautiful runs in the area, spring boating usually ends in February- Unless you're on the Verde, Salt, or GC...


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## jmacn (Nov 20, 2010)

*Camping*

Perfect weekend at the Verde requires an overnight on the water. If you're willing to stop and scout, class II boaters will be just fine from Beasley to Childs. At most flows lining a ducky down the left is "easy."

Day 1: Drive your ass off and leave a vehicle at Childs with car camping setup & icey colds for the hot springs. Return to Camp Verde and head on down to Beasley to crash out.

Day 2: Put in and enjoy! A telephone line crosses the river at Gap Creek where a ranch house is visible on a hill above, river right. This is half wayish. Find a sweet place to stay and continue to enjoy.

Day 3: When you find the concrete foundation & palm trees of the old gangster resort on river right you're just above the hot spring. Enjoy. Your take out is not far downstream on the left.

If in doubt and it looks like the river disappears into the willows, go right. May not always work, but low water on the verde is Class Tree...


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## jmacn (Nov 20, 2010)

RiverMamma said:


> No problem! Like I said, feel free to ask if you think of any other questions! You might luck out on Oak Creek flows... but the Verde will be low, it blew it's load already, it has a much lower water shed than Oak Creek & the Salt. They all flash flooded a few weeks ago, the Salt & Oak Creek still have good snow pack & will run again, but the Verde is done. That's why we made a mad dash out there to catch it! It peaked at 12,000 cfs (yup, 12,000 holey scary batman!) We caught it on the down side at about 1,400 cfs Jan 31 put in, & took out at about 800 cfs Feb 2, & it was Awesome!!!  Don't worry though, it will still be a great run at 200-300 cfs, that's more normal flows, and the trees won't be as terrifying! I really do highly recommend hitting up the Salt day stretch while your in that neck of the woods, & it will be flowing then. Whatever you end up running, Have a Blast!!!


Verde might be done for rafting, but if Oak Creek is runnable, so is the Verde. I've been on the Verde at 10ish k and it's not as bad as you might think. Not that I'd take an oar boat down there, dang! Respect. The Verde hit 60k twice within a month one winter some years back, now that'll scare batman...


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## lmyers (Jun 10, 2008)

Anyone got any beta on the "upper Verde"? 

Tyler Williams' Paddling Arizona book says the Verde from Perkinsville to TAPCO is 20 miles with 5 class III rapids and 1 class IV. It also says the river cuts through a scenic canyon of Redwall Limestone and has the "most spectacular shuttle drive in the state".

Anyone boated it?

Also wondering about the Verde between Sullivan Lake and Perkinsville. I realize you would have to have pretty solid flows to have the required 200-300 cfs up there, but it looks like it drops into a scenic canyon with a couple of possible camp/side hikes at Muldoon Canyon and Grindstone Wash....

Any information would be appreciated.


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## lmyers (Jun 10, 2008)

It is, in fact looking pretty good for runoff on the Verde still. The NRCS shows 98% of average snowpack and are predicting a "normal" runoff.

For Oak Creek, here are the gauges/stations you should keep an eye on:

Mormon Mountain Summit, southeast of Flagstaff is at the head of Munds Canyon, and very close to the head of Pumphouse Wash (2 of the 3 major tributaries to Oak above Sedona)and is showing 23" of snow currently. Keep an eye on how fast the snow starts dropping to know when it's going to flow:

Mountain West Snow | Mormon Mtn Summit SNOTEL

The Sedona gauge is starting to show a diurnal cycle of melting.... keep an eye on this too, because if AZ doesn't get any more major storms it might melt before your planned dates...

USGS Current Conditions for USGS 09504420 OAK CREEK NEAR SEDONA, AZ

If it works out in late March I might be down to meet you for some boating.... doesn't look like I will have the opportunity to head south until then.


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## Cutch (Nov 4, 2003)

My better half and I did a self-support on the Verde River from Camp Verde at White Bridge to Horseshoe Reservoir on February 1st to 4th. We wanted the flash flood spike, but alas, I couldn't leave til Thursday, so we missed all the creeks that I wanted to run and had to go with the backup plan on the Verde with dropping flows of 750-550 cfs. I wouldn't want any less for our length and time of trip.

We left Denver Thursday night, drove all night to arrive at Camp Verde by lunch time, and after arranging for a miracle shuttle (Thank you CV Fire Department) and a place to park, we launched around 3pm. 

We camped at Palisades Rapid our first night, and had the place to ourselves. The rapids are pretty straightforward for intermediates... we only scouted once on our trip, at the Verde Falls, which is really a short drop. On day 2 we spent lunch at the Child's hot springs, and camped a few miles below the East Verde River, below the warm springs. Day 3 we had one portage in one of the forests... that may have been avoidable by choosing a different channel, but the channel I chose ended in a tree sieve. We camped at the Sheeps Bridge crossing on our 3rd night, which despite having 4wd road access was also nice and quite, and we had the hot springs to ourselves that night and our final morning. On Monday we made the 10 mile quick paddle out to be at the boat ramp by 10:45am... 

The wildlife, warm springs, and camping are really the highlights of the Verde river. I would recommend the self-support kayak trip. I lost count of the number of bald eagles we saw, and Golden Eagles, Falcons, King Fishers, etc... abundant bird life. We had a really cool experience with two river otters (I looked up and I was following two oblivious otters into a rapid), some beavers, and crawdads. It was slightly too cold for large snakes (kind of a bummer), and we didn't see many lizards. We had a slow start on our first morning because all of our gear was frozen solid. The river is predominately flat, so you can load your kayaks extra heavy... we brought the fire pan, toilet with seat, regular tent, all fresh food, and about 36 beers to share. 

On Monday we were picked up by shuttle, driven back to Camp Verde to our vehicle, and then just in time for us to drive back to Denver to arrive at 4am, just in time for me to drive my daughter to school and start work. All in all it's a fantastic trip that can be done with only 4 days off of work, launching Friday afternoon, taking out Monday morning, with an all night drive on each side. Get some!


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## deadlizard (Mar 10, 2008)

lmyers said:


> Anyone got any beta on the "upper Verde"?
> 
> Tyler Williams' Paddling Arizona book says the Verde from Perkinsville to TAPCO is 20 miles with 5 class III rapids and 1 class IV. It also says the river cuts through a scenic canyon of Redwall Limestone and has the "most spectacular shuttle drive in the state".
> 
> ...


I know Buzz user mjibilian has done the upper Verde. If I remember correctly, it was worth doing and they patched the canoe holes with duct tape.


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## carvedog (May 11, 2005)

RiverMamma said:


> Here is a picture of Verde Falls Feb. 1, 2013 about 1,200 cfs!


So let me get this straight: Two+ weeks ago you boated the Verde somewhere in AZ and it was warm enough that you didn't need a paddle top or anything? 

Damn.


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## bobbuilds (May 12, 2007)

Thank you all for the responces. Due to time, and dogs we will only be able to do a day stretch.

We are deciding on white bridge to beasley flat, or beasley flat to gap creek. Is everyone confident that we could do beasley to gap creek with class 2 paddlers?

we are ok to scout, portage, but i'm not sure of the river, we have a full day for the run, so there should be enough time, any recomendations one way or the other on white bridge or beasley to gap?

lastly, Is there any primative camping at the verde by white bridge or beasley? we will have driven a long time by then and will be tired, also, we do not want to go as far as childs, and the only information i've found is for camping at the childs take out.

I looked into the FS options off I-17 at 298, but my friends and i were trying to camp at or as close to the put in as possible, any thoughts here?

my continued thanks.


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## dsmoake (Apr 2, 2010)

You cannot camp or park overnight at beasley. on the road to Beasley, once you past the last few houses, there are several dirt roads to the left that lead to the river where people have camped and camping is allowed. That is probably your best option. It seems most of the area between the bridge and beasley is mostly private property. I think even for class II paddlers, the bridge to beasley is pretty mild.


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## hoosker (Feb 1, 2009)

On march 23rd there is a canoe/ kayak race from the white bridge to Beasley so you will have crowds to to contend with on that stretch of the river. You should be fine on the Beasley to gap section as long as flows, by some fluke don't get big, just scout, and be very heads up about strainers. As far as camping, there are lots of places, just not right on the river. On the road to Beasley ( salt mine rd ) most everything to the south southwest of the road is national forest with a few roads leading through it. The road to the gap creek take out is national forest and you will find camping immediately when it turns to dirt only a few miles from Beasley all the way to the just before gap creek. Closer to white bridge, there is clear creek campground and a ton of national forest access off of hwy 260 all within 10 miles or so east of the white bridge.


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## lmyers (Jun 10, 2008)

deadlizard said:


> I know Buzz user mjibilian has done the upper Verde. If I remember correctly, it was worth doing and they patched the canoe holes with duct tape.


Thanks Gene. I might private message him, or start another thread specifically about the upper stretches. I would really like to see some pictures...


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## Boatinginthedesert (Jun 14, 2011)

This stretch does not see a lot of boating and I have never boated it but I hear about barb wire fencing across the river at several locations and some nasty railroad tunnel building debris in the river about 1/2 way between Perkinsville and Tuzigoot. This could be a 3 day trip from Perkinsville to tuzigoot.


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## mjibilian (Sep 9, 2008)

*Upper-Verde*

Lizard-Death-Gene just likes to put me on the spot because he knows I'm horrible with record keeping and can't remember 5 minutes ago...

We did low flow, immediately after rains, and probably had 80cfs. One portaged boulder-seive was the worst of it.

The canyon is just a beauty. If I was a poet, I'd try to do it justice.

But Gene made the biggest point. Take duct-tape and quick curing epoxy. 80 cfs on a relatively flat stream is brutal on a boat. We were in canoes. 2 nights on the river. Could have used 30 nights.

Very worthwhile, unless you're looking for thrills and spills.

If you want real detail, I can hook you up with Don Farmer, who has a bad huntnhabit somewhere on yahoo or gmail. He knows it upside down and inside out.

Mark Jibilian


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## mjibilian (Sep 9, 2008)

*Back to the topic*

They are all saying it pretty well.

White Bridge to Beasley is very very mild. And that weekend will be crowded with the contest.

Beasley to Gap Creek will be more challenging, but you could camp on the river after put-in. The class-2 boaters would probably enjoy the challenge(s). But that's just my opinion.

A not-insignificant downside to this stretch - at Gap Creek, you have to haul your gear out on a 1/2 mile hike to the car-park. 

But really, that just kind of makes it all worthwhile...

Mark Jibilian


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## mjibilian (Sep 9, 2008)

*And then veering back off the topic*

We floated Beasley to Gap Creek yesterday at 450, I guess.

It was a kick!

2 IK's and 3 kayaks.

At Verde Falls, one IK and one kayak ran it, the rest of us watched. After watching them make it look easy, I regret not having run it.

The hole at Palisades was fun, the one at Punk Rock was a gas. Ted got right in the maw of both of them, watching him was worth the price of admission.

At Gap Creek, we caught up to 4 IK'ers, packing their stuff up to the car-park. They had camped near Palisades, said their trip was great too.

Mark Jibilian


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## bobbuilds (May 12, 2007)

thank you for the information, we are excited. and have found on the map the areas mentioned. we should be set!


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## cory22222 (Sep 27, 2013)

lmyers said:


> Thanks Gene. I might private message him, or start another thread specifically about the upper stretches. I would really like to see some pictures...


Hey I just joined mountain buzz. I know this is an old thread but I have a bunch of pics on YouTube. Search upper verde, perkinsville to Clarkdale.


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## dregsfan (Sep 13, 2013)

cory22222 said:


> Hey I just joined mountain buzz. I know this is an old thread but I have a bunch of pics on YouTube. Search upper verde, perkinsville to Clarkdale.


I just bought my first duckie and would like to do more than White Bridge to Beasley. Gotta link for those vids?


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## cory22222 (Sep 27, 2013)

*you tube link*



dregsfan said:


> I just bought my first duckie and would like to do more than White Bridge to Beasley. Gotta link for those vids?


 Paddling the Upper Verde River Perkinsville to Clarkdale - YouTube hope this works. if you have any questions let me know. this section is remote. leave enough time and stay away if water is high


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## fdon (Jul 23, 2008)

Very Cool, I hope to get back there soon. Love that reach from Perkinsville to Clarkdale on a baseflow.


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## topbud (Apr 9, 2010)

If anyone heads down here this season, pm me. I'd show you the river and have room to camp in the driveway. If I cant boat I can always help with shuttle. Good fun stuff down here. Even low water boatig is better than nothing.
Enjoy AZ!!


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## lmyers (Jun 10, 2008)

cory22222 said:


> Paddling the Upper Verde River Perkinsville to Clarkdale - YouTube hope this works. if you have any questions let me know. this section is remote. leave enough time and stay away if water is high


Awesome. Thank you so much for sharing the slideshow, looks extremely pretty. So if that was 60 cfs ideal flow would probably be 150-300? Certainly looked like there were some tight alley ways through the vegetation.... reminds me a little of Oak Creek below Sedona. What gauge do you use for that run? Thinking I might want to try and do a kayak self-support on it this upcoming Spring.



topbud said:


> If anyone heads down here this season, pm me. I'd show you the river and have room to camp in the driveway. If I cant boat I can always help with shuttle. Good fun stuff down here. Even low water boatig is better than nothing.
> Enjoy AZ!!


Tony right? Have you boated that upper stretch of the Verde? I would like to come down this spring and boat something like that stretch that is very beautiful and rather obscure/remote....but I'm not opposed to coming back down for Oak Creek and the Salt if there is a solid snowpack.


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## fdon (Jul 23, 2008)

That reach, Perkinsville to Clarkdale is indeed a fine spot but, and it is a big but, baseflow at Perkinsville is generally 26cfs and quite mellow and safe. The 20 something mile run picks up water from springs and Sycamore Creek along the way and finishes up at a baseflow of say 70 cfs. At this level the river is well-suited for canoes with out a lot of rocker and sit on tops. You do have to push of a rock here and there so ducks and sit insides can be painful. One day is not enough. Two long days can get it done but why? Three or four days are just about perfect. A wise boater once told me to go when the water is clear so you can see the rocks.

There are strainers and two major rock sieves that make a higher water run sporty. This reach is above the major tribs. so when the Verde at the Camp Verde gauge is running <13,000>, the Perkinsville reach may not get over 300cfs. I have seen it running at 2000cfs and would not want to be on it at that flow. All of the gauges above the Sycamore gauge are of the low flow type and do not read the level much past baseflow. Try watershedmonitor.com for Verde and Salt tributary flows.


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## lmyers (Jun 10, 2008)

Thanks for the beta fdon. Is there worthwhile hiking destinations on the run? I could see it being fun at base flow in a boat that would be easy to get in and out of quick (ducky/canoe) if the camps and hikes were worth it. Scenery looks amazing, but if the side canyons aren't really worth exploring I would probably rather do it as a whitewater run.


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## lmyers (Jun 10, 2008)

How about Sycamore Canyon, anyone know of it being ran or got any beta on it? Looks beautiful, drains a large high elevation area and runs through a wilderness.... I would have a hard time believing it hasn't been boated before, but I would certainly be interested in any information. Everything I have read was written for hikers/backpackers. Here are a couple photos of it I found online while researching:





Thanks for the local info guys, it's greatly appreciated.


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## fdon (Jul 23, 2008)

Imyers, you have picked a gem in the higher Sonoran Desert to ask about. I would suggest you pose the question at the Yahoo site, "Monsoon Warriors" to get a feel for the boating history of this marvelous spot on the earth. You might get a quicker response. I cannot help you with anything other than hiking into the upper and lower parts of this drainage. That entire area is class V scenery by the way.


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## deadlizard (Mar 10, 2008)

*Sycamore Canyon TR link*



lmyers said:


> How about Sycamore Canyon, anyone know of it being ran or got any beta on it? Looks beautiful, drains a large high elevation area and runs through a wilderness.... I would have a hard time believing it hasn't been boated before, but I would certainly be interested in any information. Everything I have read was written for hikers/backpackers. Here are a couple photos of it I found online while researching:
> 
> Thanks for the local info guys, it's greatly appreciated.


Several people I know have ran this stretch multiple times. If interested, I could pm you their email addresses. Allan Watts is one of those persons and here is a TR he compiled.

Sycamore Creek - Mar 11, 2010 - Mesquite Wash to Sugerloaf Mountain - Part I

Gene


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## topbud (Apr 9, 2010)

yup, Tony here. We boated a stretch of Oak Creek (if I remember correctly). I have not run that upper stretch yet, but have been scoping it out. I just need to find some time (3 days) to do it. I have been getting on the lower flows here and find that a self supported duckie trip is way different than a whitewater trip. We just spent a night on the beasley to gap stretch and did some good exploring. I have been down there a ton of times and found lots of new things, that makes me look forward to exploring more. I'd be down for whatever....
just not really a class V boater


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## lmyers (Jun 10, 2008)

fdon said:


> Imyers, you have picked a gem in the higher Sonoran Desert to ask about. I would suggest you pose the question at the Yahoo site, "Monsoon Warriors" to get a feel for the boating history of this marvelous spot on the earth. You might get a quicker response. I cannot help you with anything other than hiking into the upper and lower parts of this drainage. That entire area is class V scenery by the way.


Thanks for the info. I messaged the "Monsoon Warriors" group on facebook asking for additional information.



deadlizard said:


> Several people I know have ran this stretch multiple times. If interested, I could pm you their email addresses. Allan Watts is one of those persons and here is a TR he compiled.
> 
> Sycamore Creek - Mar 11, 2010 - Mesquite Wash to Sugerloaf Mountain - Part I
> 
> Gene


Thanks for posting that TR Gene. Sounds like a fun run.... just needs to have water.



topbud said:


> yup, Tony here. We boated a stretch of Oak Creek (if I remember correctly). I have not run that upper stretch yet, but have been scoping it out. I just need to find some time (3 days) to do it. I have been getting on the lower flows here and find that a self supported duckie trip is way different than a whitewater trip. We just spent a night on the beasley to gap stretch and did some good exploring. I have been down there a ton of times and found lots of new things, that makes me look forward to exploring more. I'd be down for whatever....
> just not really a class V boater


Hey Tony, yeah I remember paddling with you. That was a fun trip. I would like to come down this spring when things start to warm up... maybe March. I will get in touch with you when the time comes. I'm not a class V boater either. III-IV is good enough for me.


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## fdon (Jul 23, 2008)

Hi Gene, great to see you hanging around here. Thanks for the beta on the San Juan shuttle guy last spring. That worked out well.

I think you have the wrong Sycamore Creek. The Verde has three tribs by that name and the one in question flows into the Verde above Clarkdale. It is a popular hiking and swimming destination in the summertime. The creek you mentioned is the lowest Sycamore that flows into the Verde a few miles above the Verde confluence with the Salt. 
Best,
Don


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## cory22222 (Sep 27, 2013)

lmyers said:


> Awesome. Thank you so much for sharing the slideshow, looks extremely pretty. So if that was 60 cfs ideal flow would probably be 150-300? Certainly looked like there were some tight alley ways through the vegetation.... reminds me a little of Oak Creek below Sedona. What gauge do you use for that run? Thinking I might want to try and do a kayak self-support on it this upcoming Spring.
> 
> 
> 
> Tony right? Have you boated that upper stretch of the Verde? I would like to come down this spring and boat something like that stretch that is very beautiful and rather obscure/remote....but I'm not opposed to coming back down for Oak Creek and the Salt if there is a solid snowpack.


I think 150 to 300 would be good but very hard to hit. and I would not want much more personally. so I say embrace the 24 cfs you start on. learn to love the rocks.8) there are several hiking opportunities in these canyons but not many trails. aside from the train that runs through the canyon you probably wont see anyone else. also if the train annoys you you can check the schedule, (Verde canyon railroad) to find days it doesn't run. our second day on the river we didn't see the train at all.


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## fdon (Jul 23, 2008)

One other note: This portion of the Verde is remote and the shuttles, while not impossibly long, are on dirt roads that pretty much turn to deep goo with a rainfall heavy enough to bring flows up. By the time the roads become passable again, the river is on its way back down. Cory52s gives some interesting advice about embracing the baseflow and going with it. I tend to agree as it is a marvelous place to be regardless.


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## lmyers (Jun 10, 2008)

fdon said:


> One other note: This portion of the Verde is remote and the shuttles, while not impossibly long, are on dirt roads that pretty much turn to deep goo with a rainfall heavy enough to bring flows up. By the time the roads become passable again, the river is on its way back down. Cory52s gives some interesting advice about embracing the baseflow and going with it. I tend to agree as it is a marvelous place to be regardless.


So.... on that note, have your leaves started changing down there? This could be something of interest for the time period around Thanksgiving depending on what weather is like that time of year... I would assume it's just starting to freeze at night?


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## 86304 (Apr 15, 2008)

so, are duckies do-able at base flows on the perkinsville to sycamore section?

bob


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## fdon (Jul 23, 2008)

Hi Bob, I find that rubber boats stick on every rock and it is a pain to get up from a seated position to shove off. A plastic boat seems to work out better. My preference is an Old Town discovery or guide series canoe for their lack of rocker(= less draft), slick plastic which slides over rocks well, unsurpassed ability to take a rock beating and keep going, ability to carry heavy loads and it is easy to put a foot into the water to shove off when needed.

To your question: Sure a ducky will get it done. That's a pretty long hill to climb if you takeout at Sycamore. When are we going?


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## 86304 (Apr 15, 2008)

yeah fdon, thanks for the reply. 

problem is, i don't have any plastic boats (or any skills or experience). only hypalon. and i can see what you mean about getting stuck vs. sliding over rocks. done my share of getting stuck.

as far as when? busy for now with that work thing but anytime in the spring in the verde valley (late feb. > depending on the weather). thanksgiving? 

guess i really need to think about how many times i want to get out of my ducky and shove off a rock in four days! 

bob


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