# Three Frame Questions



## cmccartney (Feb 15, 2016)

Hi all. Kayaker new to rafting here, setting up my first oar rig, an Otter 142 with NRS Compact Outfitter 3-bay frame (60" x 78"). I plan to run it loaded on multi-days with two passengers up front and also solo on day trips, ideally with the same frame. I have three related newbie questions about frame measurements that I didn't quite answer in my forum searching.

1. How important is it to have the oar towers set in the middle of the raft's water line, and does this preference change when loaded vs unloaded?
2. How important is it to have my front passengers (on dry box) sitting out of reach from the oar's full range of motion should it take a sudden swing forward from a blade strike? Is that a thing?
3. How important is it to have the front and rear crossbars pushed all the way to the ends of the frame, making it a rectangle instead of having several inches of side bar protruding (while still on the flat section of the tube).

Thanks for any advice.


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## markhusbands (Aug 17, 2015)

You will get some different answers but here's mine:
1. Centered is ideal but you have to load yout boat too, and I think a LOT of people compromise by having towers back of center and to me it is totally fine.
2. I think this is important and it is why I like having a four bay frame with passengers, cooler, towers, dry box/me sitting.I've got a bay in between me and my passengers. I know people who have had their oars pulled from them and hit their passengers with force, and I have sure had my oars pulled out of my hands. It may count as a fuck up but it is a fuck up that happens. On the other hand, plenty of people row right behind passengers and I am not claiming they are crazy.
3. If I get what you mean you're thinking of a little margin in case the connector slips and you don't, really don' t want that slipping off the end of the bar. I give myself a couple inches but my frame uses T fittings (in themselves prone to slipping I'd guess) but also fixed wooden decks (i.e. gussets, which seem to resolve the potential for slip). The LoPros I will assume are much less likely to slip than a T fitting that relies on a set screw on the T. (The bottom of the T on my frame has pins so no slip off potential there).

PS. If the latter question is about extending the frame beyond the flat section, absolutely, a little overhang is commonplace; tubes flex. Obviously, you do want to limit this, as you want the frame to load a long section of tube with plenty of contact, but a little extra pressure at the frame ends on the articulated sections is not a big deal...never heard anyone else make issue with this.


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## cmccartney (Feb 15, 2016)

Thanks for the input, Mark. To clarify question 3, I was told by a friend to not have the side bar sticking out beyond the cross bar as it will be damaged if the raft flexes in a big hit. I'm not sure if the raft or the frame would be taking the damage, but thought I'd see if that is a concern of others. Not worried about slippage. Thanks again.


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## markhusbands (Aug 17, 2015)

your friend may know more than I do but that sure doesn't seem like an issue unless you're talking about more than a few inches. but I suppose if I had a bunch of extra length I'd cut the sidebars down to a more manageable length. Alternately, if I had enough length to actually bend beyond my fittings, I'd get another crossbar and use the length somehow to add some storage and/or get some more separation between passengers and oars. Personally on my 14er I want as much frame length as the boat will give me for overnighters.


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## Osprey (May 26, 2006)

agree with all Mark had to say but adding to #3...I've had my side rails sticking out several inches from the front-most bar for probably over 10 years with no problem. The NRS frame has that big rubber end plug on it anyway. I do it on purpose since my frame is setup for multiday, but if I want to add the fishing setup I don't want to be adjusting a bunch of bars. So that last few inches stays empty so the raised front fishing seat bar can just slide on the ends when I want it, tighten up the u-bolts and good to go. Same in the last bay, I don't want to haul a dry box to sit on for a day/fishing trip, so a flat seat bar can just be dropped in there when needed. I also run a 4 bay frame and got those side bars as long as I could make them.


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## SherpaDave (Dec 28, 2017)

1. Everyone wants to be centered. Most of us aren’t. Wit a 3-bay frame you should be able to get reasonably close.
2. It could be hard on a 3-bay frame to have the oars clear the passengers. I lost hold of an oar in Georgie and put a big knot in the back of a passengers head. It’s worth considering helmets in big water as oars frames have lots of hard points to bang oneself on.
3. I don’t see an issue here. Like Osprey I have space in front to add the fishing seat when needed. If you end up with ~12” add a 4th bay for water/groovers. Depending on your priority of Q1 or Q2 put it in the back or between passengers.


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## markhusbands (Aug 17, 2015)

Here's one idea you may consider...if your frame is on the short side for the length of your tubes, perhaps you could set up a trailer frame as a front bay your passengers could sit on, maybe a table drop bag combo. This would give you more storage and more space for oars. I'd just want to pad things so fingers can't go in there. I've helped one friend rig a stout table this way. Maybe someone else here has done it.


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## pdx_h20 (Aug 13, 2020)

I have the same frame and raft and run it like a 4-bay. One thing to watch out for: the NRS 10 inch towers that come with the frame are very tall/wide, take that into account when buying oars (or get the 8 inch towers instead).


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## kokoroltd (Apr 12, 2015)

Don't know if it is too late to comment. All the above commenters have great advise. I have the same boat. Awesome boat. I could really load it and it still handles great not like my 16 ft cat..(sold it). If you have been rafting awhile you WILL get your oar ripped from your hand. All you need is fast main current and you dip the oar in an eddy. And, yes I have smacked my passenger luckily in the pfd more than once in the last 35 years. Now I use a 4 bay on my 14 and 4 bay + trailer up front on my 160E. Since peeps are "just " sitting they don't Need all that room only for dangling feet. Plus, you need weight forward for big waves and accidental hole crashing. I definitely would consider a trailer frame in front of your 3 bay with a table on top with a couple of paco pads.
As far as centering...I try as the boat seems to spin better.
As far as a little frame sticking out no biggie. Like the other guy said about the plastic plugs.
As far as getting my oar ripped from my hands that mostly doesn't happen anymore. I use oarlocks and feather the blades now and watch how deep I dip.


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

I'll echo everything that everyone has posted, especially the use of trailer frames. When setting up your towers, ideally when the oar is parallel to the water and perpendicular to the boat the ore handle should break 6 in above and 6 in in front of your knees.

If your towers are too short, you'll be banging your knees trying to get them out of the water, and if they're too tall you will have poor rowing mechanics. A rule of thumb is that for every inch of oar tower height up or down, it will add or subtract 6 in of height from your oar handle


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