# yup.. groover quesitons



## cake (Jun 21, 2011)

Its really hard to google "groover" and get the intended results. 

Are homemade groover requirements getting stricter?

I'm headed out with a group of people who have never used a groover before, and a couple are somewhat wary of the whole process. Frankly, the ladies dont want to see anyone's poo in a bucket when they go to do the deed themselves. 

soooooo......

It sounds like I'm going to need a multi-bag kind of system. I'm fine with that anyway, sounds... optimal. one poo --> one bag
I was thinking about putting together one out of PVC pipe like I saw in a video on a kayak blog. I have access to ammo cans, but PVC sounds cheaper, but equally as containable in one container.

On the other side, what is the cheapest "commode" style groover preassembled available for purchase- That would also meet all river regulations?

I'm thinking something similar to:









although I really don't want to spend $150....
would the bucket with the toilet seat qualify? Or should I just stick with the PVC setup since everyone seems alright with that?


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## carvedog (May 11, 2005)

It all depends on where you are going as to what is required. 

I use a gamma bucket ( free five gallon bucket ) set up that costs around $8 for the seal that nests into a dairy crate for free if you aren't afraid to pick one up out of the alley where tons seem to accumulate and get tossed with regularity. Just so anyone with the Dairy Crate Enforcer division is reading - I wait until they are in the garbage to upcycle - you bastards.

No one wants to see other peoples poo, there must some innate evolution reason why humans always have to look where they are pooping. Maybe too many times someone has copped on a snake or something. 
The bags aren't cheap $3 a pop I think - and when I take my kids we use them but just one a night or maybe two if full. Then it gets sealed up with the chemical to compost in the garbage somewhere. 

Tell them not to look down. It's not worth it.


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## cataraftgirl (Jun 5, 2009)

I also use the bucket & gamma lid system like C-Dog. 6 gal. bucket is a nice comfy height. Check the regs. on the river you will be going on. We use it on Main Salmon, Middle Fork, Rogue, Deso, San Juan without any problems.
Over the years we have never had any "poo visualization" issues. However, we now have a group member who threatens to hurl when he sees poop. In the past we just used a toilet seat without the lid for the bucket groover. But last year I attached a seat with lid to a gamma lid to help lessen this person's poo aversion problem. It worked out pretty well.
I have never used a wag bag system, but using one bag per poop seems like it would be pricey and present a problem with excess bags to haul out. I would go with a regular groover system ( bucket & gamma lid or Ecosafe) and tell your gals to "cowgirl up." It's all part of the river experience.


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## Snowolf (Apr 8, 2012)

Yep, the Gamma bucket system seems to work best and is cheap. They also work great in the scat machines. Rivers like the John Day and the Deschutes don`t allow the bag system.


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## snakester (Apr 24, 2011)

I think you should get the toilet in your picture(the eco-safe). It's a good investment. I was using bags a couple of seasons ago, but it's a lot of bags and it stinks every time you open your container to put in a freshly filled poop sack. With the toilet you sprinkle some blue stuff on it and it won't smell.Tell your people to put a piece of t.p. on their poop so the next person won't have to look at it if they are that squeamish. But, if you go the bucket route, I saw some nice toilet seats that attatch to a 5-gal bucket at Cabella's the other day for around $14.00


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## Kendi (May 15, 2009)

Where do you guys get the 6 gal buckets with gamma lids? Haven't seen anything like that at the hardware store.

A FWIW- It always shocks me when I hear of someone being "squeamish" about poo-I mean we all do it. What's the problem?


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## Brushfire830 (Feb 18, 2008)

I get all my buckets and Gamma lids at _www.us*plastic*.com_ I also pick up my barrels there, they have a great selestion of items.


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## jimr (Sep 8, 2007)

Ummm buy them the book "everyone poops".


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## Liquido (Feb 27, 2012)

jimr said:


> Ummm buy them the book "everyone poops".


^yes^


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## cupido76 (May 22, 2009)

Forgive the ignorance, but we don't have requirments for things on the rivers I've done up here in Canuckistan.

I'm guessing the seat/funnel into the box attachment has to be cleaned prior to packing your boat back up, yes? And how do you clean them out at the end of the trip?

I'm interested in getting on rivers where one of these will be needed.


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## funrivers (May 14, 2008)

cupido76 said:


> Forgive the ignorance, but we don't have requirments for things on the rivers I've done up here in Canuckistan.
> 
> I'm guessing the seat/funnel into the box attachment has to be cleaned prior to packing your boat back up, yes? And how do you clean them out at the end of the trip?
> 
> I'm interested in getting on rivers where one of these will be needed.



Yeah, the funnel sucks! Not only does it have to be cleaned all the time, but you have to haul your junk up when you sit on it. Very poor design, sold to newbies.


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## kikii875 (Oct 25, 2010)

snakester said:


> Tell your people to put a piece of t.p. on their poop so the next person won't have to look at it if they are that squeamish.


I second this plan. You go through more tp, but it is the cheapest way to go (so to speak). If I land one that I am particularly proud of I use tp to make a frame around it so that it stands out.


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## cataraftgirl (Jun 5, 2009)

Kendi said:


> Where do you guys get the 6 gal buckets with gamma lids? Haven't seen anything like that at the hardware store.
> 
> A FWIW- It always shocks me when I hear of someone being "squeamish" about poo-I mean we all do it. What's the problem?


6 gallon buckets & Gamma Lids at Emergency Essentials here in the Salt Lake City area. Call around to some container places in your area, or any home brew stores (beer/wine). They use the 6 gallons buckets for home brewing. Walmart carries the Gamma Lids. Home Depot has the 5 gallon buckets, but we like the height & capacity of the 6 gallons.


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## cake (Jun 21, 2011)

snakester said:


> I think you should get the toilet in your picture(the eco-safe). It's a good investment. I was using bags a couple of seasons ago, but it's a lot of bags and it stinks every time you open your container to put in a freshly filled poop sack. With the toilet you sprinkle some blue stuff on it and it won't smell.Tell your people to put a piece of t.p. on their poop so the next person won't have to look at it if they are that squeamish. But, if you go the bucket route, I saw some nice toilet seats that attatch to a 5-gal bucket at Cabella's the other day for around $14.00


The eco-safe- someone mentioned before that your junk could hit it. Looking again I could see how that might be a problem. Also $150 is really more than I want to spend for something I might use 2 or 3 times a season...

for smell, couldn't one improvise a mix of the deodorizer stuff and maybe a ziplock storage bag then placed inside of a grocery bag?



Kendi said:


> A FWIW- It always shocks me when I hear of someone being "squeamish" about poo-I mean we all do it. What's the problem?


Women... but we've all got our flaws. There are far worse ones, so if one of them happens to be being repulsed by someone's pile of poo, then I think I can tolerate that.



cupido76 said:


> Forgive the ignorance, but we don't have requirments for things on the rivers I've done up here in Canuckistan.
> 
> I'm guessing the seat/funnel into the box attachment has to be cleaned prior to packing your boat back up, yes? And how do you clean them out at the end of the trip?
> 
> I'm interested in getting on rivers where one of these will be needed.


A lot of times there's plugs and openings to flush them out. I can speak for my area (CO, UT), and specifically UT, that the desert doesn't break things down like other places. Plus our runs get so much use, that if everyone dug catholes, it would literally be a mine field of poo. Its annoying, but I understand why it has to be done. I'd rather paddle and camp and poo in a bucket, then not be allowed to paddle or camp at all. 



funrivers said:


> Yeah, the funnel sucks! Not only does it have to be cleaned all the time, but you have to haul your junk up when you sit on it. Very poor design, sold to newbies.


You refer to that eco-safe? Thats a good call, it had crossed my mind, but I just assumed everything would fit. I mean, it can't be any smaller than an airplane setup, right? 



So no comments on a PVC setup? This is what I was thinking, video at bottom:
http://kayakcamping.amongstit.com/2010/03/25/the-groover-aka-personal-human-waste-management-system/

With the 5 gal bucket and seat, that could be used as a multi bag system? But with places getting stricter I wouldn't want to buy it and then not be able to use it anywhere. Plus I'm a canoe guy. The chama was on my to-do list


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## BCJ (Mar 3, 2008)

Eco-safe BAD. Big wide-mouth bucket GOOD. Tell the squeemish ones not to look down. Did they ever have children? Pets? Stick with something simple with few moving parts and parts that have to constantly be wiped and cleaned.


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## BCJ (Mar 3, 2008)

PS Wag bags OK for small groups. You can get 3-4 uses per bag unless Godzilla is on the trip. The lightweightness and cleanliness of the wag system is commendable, but not for large groups.


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## mtriverrat (Jan 29, 2012)

Are you sure you want to raft with people who are afraid of poop?


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## Kendi (May 15, 2009)

cake said:


> Women... but we've all got our flaws. There are far worse ones, so if one of them happens to be being repulsed by someone's pile of poo, then I think I can tolerate that.


Ha- that's funny- I'm a gal and poo doesn't bother me one bit (then again I was a Peace Corps Volunteer in Africa.....lots of poo viewing opportunities there :lol: )


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## hand8272 (May 24, 2011)

Kendi said:


> Ha- that's funny- I'm a gal and poo doesn't bother me one bit (then again I was a Peace Corps Volunteer in Africa.....lots of poo viewing opportunities there :lol: )


I agree on this one, after I became a father poo just is not that big of a deal anymore.


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## cupido76 (May 22, 2009)

BCJ said:


> Eco-safe BAD. Big wide-mouth bucket GOOD. Tell the squeemish ones not to look down. Did they ever have children? Pets? Stick with something simple with few moving parts and parts that have to constantly be wiped and cleaned.


Am I missing something here, or is everyone filling a plastic bucket full of shit and just hoping it doesn't break open on them on the river? I'm picturing some of the dramatic flips I've seen in videos of people running Lava incorrectly and thinking disaster.

I know plastic is tough, but if we protect other items with ammo cans, is a plastic bucket really strong enough?


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## snakester (Apr 24, 2011)

This is all 
you need. 19.99 with bucket 13.99 no bucket at www.cabellas.com


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## carvedog (May 11, 2005)

cupido76 said:


> Am I missing something here, or is everyone filling a plastic bucket full of shit and just hoping it doesn't break open on them on the river? I'm picturing some of the dramatic flips I've seen in videos of people running Lava incorrectly and thinking disaster.
> 
> I know plastic is tough, but if we protect other items with ammo cans, is a plastic bucket really strong enough?


Welll.....pretty sure the GC doesn't allow no stinking plastic buckets on the Colorado. That is mainly due to the pristine water quality achieved in all the runoff that drains back into the ditch. 

I don't use 'ammo' cans (assuming you mean rockets) except for my river purse. But I know lots of people like carrying those big old metal toe stubbers. Not me. 

While I don't plan on testing mine through inversion, it has been find. But yes a rocket would seem to have better potential to not leak during inversion.


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## Snowolf (Apr 8, 2012)

cupido76 said:


> Am I missing something here, or is everyone filling a plastic bucket full of shit and just hoping it doesn't break open on them on the river? I'm picturing some of the dramatic flips I've seen in videos of people running Lava incorrectly and thinking disaster.
> 
> I know plastic is tough, but if we protect other items with ammo cans, is a plastic bucket really strong enough?


Never given this much thought but wow! Bad enough to flip a rig but getting hit with a bucket of shat to boot.....:shock:


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## cataraftgirl (Jun 5, 2009)

cupido76 said:


> I know plastic is tough, but if we protect other items with ammo cans, is a plastic bucket really strong enough?


Yes. If used & rigged properly, yes. Would they survive a flip in Lava? Not sure my boat/frame/self would survive a flip in Lava? As C-Dog said, they aren't allowed on the GC, so we'll never know for sure. Been using the bucket/gamma lid system for the past 7 years with no breakage or mishaps. I'm very ammo can/rocket box adverse.

Snakester - that's a nice toilet seat, but you can't use it with a Gamma Lid. The Gamma Lid snaps onto the bucket permanently, so you can't snap that seat on.


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## [email protected] (Jun 1, 2010)

Good site to look at. Cheap fix.

Taming Groover Anxiety


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## ccombs (Mar 17, 2004)

*gamma lids and buckets*

Found this link for $5 gamma lids and cheap buckets with free shipping.

Gamma Seal Lids ™ Low as $3.95 ea - Buckets,Bottles,Cans & Lids


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## Wiggins (Sep 26, 2009)

Gamma lids can be bought at Home Depot for $8. They are right next to the buckets.

Kyle


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## TriBri1 (Nov 15, 2011)

You can also pick up a vitals vault at Petsmart. it cost a little more, but it is rectangular rather than cylindrical like a bucket. More secure to sit on and it has a built in gamma... Anyway just another option. I think they cost $30 or so.


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## cataraftgirl (Jun 5, 2009)

I use the Vittles Vaults for other things, but I don't know that I'd use it for a groover. The Gamma Lid is a smaller diameter and the plastic on the Vault isn't as sturdy as the heavy duty 5 & 6 gallon buckets. I don't think I'd trust it. TriBri1, have you used one as a groover?
Walmart here sells the Gamma Lids for $6 - $7 dollars from time to time. The 5 gallon buckets are easy to find, but the 6 gallon are a bit more elusive.


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## TriBri1 (Nov 15, 2011)

cataraftgirl said:


> I use the Vittles Vaults for other things, but I don't know that I'd use it for a groover. The Gamma Lid is a smaller diameter and the plastic on the Vault isn't as sturdy as the heavy duty 5 & 6 gallon buckets. I don't think I'd trust it. TriBri1, have you used one as a groover?
> Walmart here sells the Gamma Lids for $6 - $7 dollars from time to time. The 5 gallon buckets are easy to find, but the 6 gallon are a bit more elusive.


I haven't used the vitals vaults, only sat on them in Petsmart. They felt ok, but you're right the plastic may not be as solid as a good old bucket.


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