# Newb Questions



## punisher660 (Jul 6, 2013)

Okay - so I've been lurking on the forum for a while and decided to get into rafting. I just bought my first boat (about 5 hrs ago) and have never rafted before. I picked up a 16' Hyside cat.

I have some basic questions that might seem super simple to most of you, but to someone who hasn't even been on the water yet - they seem a little perplexing.

#1 (or should it be #2) - I just found out what a "groover" is - Now the newb question - how do you use it - ok, maybe not use it, but empty it and keep everything sanitary. It kind of grosses me our thinking that there will be a box of shit riding the rapids with me. I don't want to be too graphic, but... lets say nature calls. That's fine if your the first person to use a clean, empty can, but what is the method to keeping from vomiting when your the second guy and there is just a pile with some paper that has been sitting in a sealed, steel box that has been baking in the sun? Is it really that vile, or is there a method to it? I was reading about wag bags, which makes everything a little more bare-able, but what do you do with the bags? Where do you get rid of them? They wont fit in an RV dump will they? If you have the expensive groovers with the hose, were back to the "how to keep from vomiting" issue. Perhaps someone could explain this to me?

That was enough of #2, so I'm going to skip to ...

#3 - Life vests. I have a life vest from our power boat days. Is that good enough for rafting? Is there something specific I should be looking for? What are the recommendations out there?

#4 - What kind of pump should I be looking for? These 16ft tubes look like they will hold a lot of air - is there something better than my air mattress pump I should be looking at?

Well that should be it for now - I'm sure I'll have more questions soon enough.

TIA


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## colorado_steve (May 1, 2011)

1. wag bags are worse in my opinion. using a groover is kinda like using a pit toilet at a campsite, its not as bad as you think so stop being a wimp about it. I think your playing this up in your head to be a lot worse then it is. shit, i got a full groover in my back yard from a 10 day trip with 9 people that ended 2 days ago..... today is my lucky day to pump it. gonna get good and drunk for that...

2. your power boat life jacket is not worthy of the river. time to buy a new one. check out astral, stohlquist, kokatat

3. Carlson Barrel Pump or combo of air mattress and k-pump


enjoy your new addiction and watch your bank account suffer


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## moondog43 (Apr 26, 2010)

*Rafting answers*

You'll get used to using a groover or you'll never really love running rivers. It's a small inconvenience for the opportunity to enjoy days on the riva.

You'll need to get new jackets. Most rivers, and their accompanying rangers, will not allow you to float with motorboat pfd's. So don't wait on those. Quick way to ruin a trip is to have a ranger tell you too late that you can't use your old jackets and thus, can't float.

You'll definitely need a raft pump, either single or double barrel. Just check on here or head to a local river store. Air mattress pumps are fine until you have a mid-trip emergency and need air fast or want to get a repair done quickly.


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## caspermike (Mar 9, 2007)

Best place for newbs is big south of the poudre. Gannon has all the beta


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## cataraftgirl (Jun 5, 2009)

#1 - We use RV toilet deodorizer in the groover. We keep it in a Mrs. Dash shaker with the other groover supplies and you sprinkle a little on each time you make a "deposit." Keeps the smell down. There are some deodorizer/enzyme powders that break down the waste also. Some people like the wag bag idea, but they aren't excepted on all rivers, and you still have to have a water tight container for the used bags. Groovers are just something you get used to with river running.

#2 - Go to REI and try on a bunch of PFDs. Find one that fits well. Make sure it's whitewater rated. Rangers are very picky, plus you're betting your life on this piece of equipment.....don't skimp.

#3 - I have three pumps. Electric that plugs into my 12 volt outlet in my truck (or battery on some models). This is used to get the tubes inflated from flat. This pump gives you high volume, but not pressure. After the tubes are fully inflated but still soft, you'll need some sort of barrel pump to get them firm. These pumps provide the pressure needed. You can spend a lot (Carlson, NRS, AAA, etc.) or a little (double action plastic pump). I used a double action plastic pump for years and it worked fine. My third pump is a small K-pump that rides on my boat for top offs.

Enjoy your new cataraft. You'll have years of memories with it.
KJ


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## Beardance42 (May 12, 2008)

You'll get used to the groover, we use powder deodorizer but the liquid stuff is okay too. The powder is easier for packing on long trips - they come in single-use envelopers. Rafting stores or RV supply places have it - our local hardware also has it. 

Agree with cataraftgirl - don't skimp on PFD's. Your powerboat PFD probably isn't rated for swiftwater. Do a search on BLM river running, they're pretty explicit about what they require. Do your research - good PFD's aren't cheap, and cheap PFD's aren't good; you want to do this right the first time. 

My recommendation on pumps - get a truck-battery connection one, definitely, but I went through three double-action pumps in as many years and I've become a big believer in large-barrel single action pumps. Again, don't skimp. My problem with the double actions (at least the ones I tried) were that they failed pretty quickly and they were short, thus you're bending over further. At my age, anything a little easier on the lower back is helpful. YMMV.

You didn't say how big your tubes were. I have two double tube cats (17.5' '95 Aire Cougar and a 15' '00 Aire Panther). By today's standards, the tubes are fairly small. I have found that both are pretty load-sensitive. An overloaded cat is no fun, especially with upsteam winds, so once you start doing long trips, be mindful of weight distribution and overall load weight. Cats are nimble and very responsive, but they can be sluggish and belligerent when overloaded. Your manufacturer's weight recommendations are probably a good guide, but I would typically not exceed 80% of their maximum weight spec for a long trip, especially if there's a lot of flat water and/or the likelihood of big winds. 

Enjoy! There's nothing like the feel of a new raft on the river.


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## OldandBitter (Jun 11, 2011)

Get an electric pump-buy the best PFD you can, and learn to love the groover.


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## ahogenauer (Mar 5, 2008)

On multi day trips, we share gear carrying duty. If you build a nice kitchen in a dry box with stove and dishwashing and handwashing station and you always volunteer to bring that along; your group will not make you bring or service the groover.
On the other hand, most of us that have done this for a while, think groover duty is the easiest duty in camp and I'll volunteer to do groover duty anytime over some more time consuming duties in camp
Get an Eco Safe for multi day trips and figure out something simpler for day trips. A wag bag or, hell, you can shit on a paper plate and tie it up tight in a plastic bag and throw it in your garbage for a day trip. It is not OK to "cat hole" your way down any river in the lower 48.


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## punisher660 (Jul 6, 2013)

Well we had a storm move in today, so I didn't get a chance to hit the water. I did take some of the above advice though. Picked up a NRS PDF and barrel pump, then practiced putting the raft together in the garage.

The electric pump I use for my air mattresses work great. I then topped it off with the manual pump and was totally inflated in less than 5 or so min per tube (16' x 24").

So now another newb question - how to launch.

Do you guys (and gals) use a trailer like a regular boat? I'm trying to avoid a trailer if possible. I'm assuming you assemble the raft near the launch site with tubes and frames, put it in the water, then load the dry boxes and cooler?

I want to be careful to not drag it on the ground, if your significant other is pretty weak, what do you do? Are there "carts" or something to use or techniques to avoid damaging the tubes while launching?

Thanks again for all the info.


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## chrispy (Apr 6, 2004)

casper mike is funny douche


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## cataraftgirl (Jun 5, 2009)

punisher660 said:


> Well we had a storm move in today, so I didn't get a chance to hit the water. I did take some of the above advice though. Picked up a NRS PDF and barrel pump, then practiced putting the raft together in the garage.
> 
> The electric pump I use for my air mattresses work great. I then topped it off with the manual pump and was totally inflated in less than 5 or so min per tube (16' x 24").
> 
> ...


You really only have two choices to launch.....trailer or carry. You can have it fully rigged and ready on a trailer, then back the trailer into (or very close to) the water and slide/float it off. If you have enough people you carry it to the water, then rig it with your boxes, cooler, gear. If you can get it put together as close to the water as possible and not put any extra weight on it (just tubes & frame) you and your wife may be able to carry it to the water? Only way to tell is by practicing at home first. If you are doing mostly day runs with just the two of you, then a trailer is way easier. If you're doing multi-day trips then you will have other group members to help you launch. Getting a trailer was one of the best things I ever did.
KJ


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

X2 on the trailer. 

Spend your time on the water, not inflating/deflating.

I spent my first 6 years rafting without a trailer. The past 4 have been more fun. Don't be like me. Buy one sooner.


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## SROB34 (Dec 29, 2012)

MT4Runner said:


> X2 on the trailer.
> 
> Spend your time on the water, not inflating/deflating.
> 
> I spent my first 6 years rafting without a trailer. The past 4 have been more fun. Don't be like me. Buy one sooner.


Did 3 trips with my raft w/o trailer. At that point I'd had enough and bought one.


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## David Miller (May 23, 2010)

I've posted these videos before on other threads but since you asked. 

I use a wag bag system for shorter trips. A full on groover is good for 50 uses and is a pain compared to setting up a wag system like the RESTSTOP or the PETT IMO. Cleaning out a groover isn't much fun but a full on groover is a must for bigger trips or where the rules demand one. It's a good idea to carry some wag bags on a big trip so that the groover doesn't have to be unloaded and reloaded during the day.

If your not in a hurry keep an eye out for sales on PFDs. If you know what you are looking for sooner or later a good sale will happen and you can save a bunch.

La Pooperia (the groover) project OARS/Dories in Grand Canyon - YouTube

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4y9XPNy1L1U&feature=player_embedded


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## David Miller (May 23, 2010)

*Other Random Suggestions*

Take a Swift Water Rescue class. It will be the best money you ever spent. They are fun and you will learn the skills necessary to keep you and your family safe. In a few short days you will learn more than you now know there is to learn.

Until you have taken a SWR course DON'T buy a rescue PFD. They cost more and if you don't know how to use one it could be dangerous for you to try. 

Equip all your PFD's with a whistle and on those worn by adults with a knife. 

Some PFDs are better suited to kayakers and others are more comfortable for rowing. I prefer more flotation in my PFD than the minimum required by the Coast Guard. 

I have a seat with a back and some PFDs are not comfortable in the seat.

Here is a link to some PFDs on sale a NRS. 
Clearance Rack > Life Jackets at NRSweb.com

A trailer while not a necessity make the experience much better. Since you have a 16 foot boat you will need a trailer that supports the tubes and you can't buy an old snowmobile trailer that so many boaters use on shorter boats. Keep an eye out for a used trailer for sale. You might want to cover the deck of the trailer with carpet or astro turf to protect the trailer and allow it to slide off a little easier. When you get a trailer take the bearing out and regrease. I use bearing buddies so that I can push grease into the hub once or twice a year. Carry in your car a set of extra bearings so that you can rebuild on the road.


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## Schutzie (Feb 5, 2013)

They say the second happiest day in a boaters life is the day he buys his first boat, and the happiest day is the day he sells it.

Which is why it applies to hard hull boaters only.

Welcome to the sport. you're gonna spend a LOT of money on the equipment.
You're going to be frustrated
You're going to get wet
And if you do it right, at least once you'll be scared out of your wits. Justifiably.

Since you're doing pretty much everything the first time, pay close attention to the advice here. Some of it even will make sense for you.
Find a good friend(s) who have been there, done that, and buy them beer. Invite them on trips. You want to find an outfitter supplier who can help you out fit your rig.

I recommend Stitches N Stuff; D-9 and Jan are the best and Dennis has probably more time on rivers than just about anyone, in just about any kind of boat, in just about any condition you can describe. His brain is somewhat moldy now cause you know, he's old and he had a troubled and eventful youth, but he knows more about rigging and running than anyone I know.

And, you want to get liver insurance. You know, cause chances are you'll ruin it.


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## Beardance42 (May 12, 2008)

punisher660 said:


> .
> 
> Do you guys (and gals) use a trailer like a regular boat? I'm trying to avoid a trailer if possible. I'm assuming you assemble the raft near the launch site with tubes and frames, put it in the water, then load the dry boxes and cooler?
> 
> I want to be careful to not drag it on the ground, if your significant other is pretty weak, what do you do? Are there "carts" or something to use or techniques to avoid damaging the tubes while launching?


The folks who have trailers will swear by them, and that's fine. My wife and I assemble by the ramp, trying as hard as possible not to take up prime trailer-backing space and keeping our footprint as minimal as we can. That said, sometimes we have to drag it a ways, framed up but without coolers etc. It's rare. Most of the time, we can rig a day run in 35 minutes from the time I drop the pickup's gate, and disassemble in 12 minutes or less. Overnight trips obviously take longer. 

I've been rigging at the water for almost 20 years - I won't launch into a big speech about going old school or anything. There are times I wish I had a trailer, but frankly, my property is pretty small and parking it at home would be a serious hassle, bordering on impossible and requiring a storage area. Which by itself isn't all that bad, except I wouldn't want to NOT have my boat on my property, meaning every day trip would be an exercise in getting the trailer, loading the boat onto the trailer, and offloading at the end of the day, then driving the trailer to storage...and a lot of storage areas aren't open at night...etc etc. Trailers have to be registered (add'l expense), plus maintenance, plus they can be a hassle in certain circumstances requiring tight parking or maneuvering.

But the proof's in the pudding - I can confidently say that 80% or better of the day trippers we encounter have a trailer now. Some popular ramps are a nightmare, with trailers lined up for their turn to cart boats away, and parking at some put in's and take outs is definitely tighter. 

Like anything else, if you get a trailer, get a decent one, take care of it and learn how to backup efficiently. Loose trailers on highways is an invitation to serious disaster, and sloppy maneuvering on a ramp wastes everyone's time. 

Bottom line - if I could keep a trailer at my house, I'd probably get one. But most of the time, rigging at the water is just fine. I'm used to it.


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## cataraftgirl (Jun 5, 2009)

In Utah, small trailers don't have to be registered. I don't remember the exact weight, but my two place ATV trailer was under the limit. You can look it up on the Utah DMV website.


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## punisher660 (Jul 6, 2013)

Well I got a chance to take the cat out - it wasn't for very long, but I did get to put it in the lake for a few. Overall, it was easier than I was expecting. I think our rehearsal in the garage helped. I also brought some plastic wheel chalks to stop the tubes from rolling on me while putting the frame in place. That helped tremendously. 

Over all, everything went smoothly. The wife was able to lift her end (much to my surprise). I dropped the frame, cooler, and dry boxes off to the side of the ramp. Then I filled the tubes in the parking lot and carried them down to the rest of the gear. I strapped everything into place, carried the boat into the water (with the wife's help) so that there was only 3' left sitting on the ramp. This required getting wet up to knee deep - no big deal.

Then I put the cooler and dry boxes in. I had the wife get in and sit up front on the cooler. This let me lift the raft clear of the ramp with no problem and push it out where I then hopped on.

Over all, our first attempt to launch took about 25 minutes. Not too bad, but I bet we can cut that down quite a bit over time. Breakdown and loading back into the truck was all done at the ramp and took about 15 minutes. 

I may opt for a trailer one day, but for now, this wasn't too bad. I appreciate all the input on this board.

I ordered a spare oar, my life jacket (the regular boating one sucked to row in, but it worked for the day), and next weekend we are off to run the Moab Daily.


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## punisher660 (Jul 6, 2013)

Thanks for the link David Miller - This is the one I ended up ordering:
NRS Session PFD - Closeout at NRSweb.com


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## cataraftgirl (Jun 5, 2009)

punisher660 said:


> Well I got a chance to take the cat out - it wasn't for very long, but I did get to put it in the lake for a few. Overall, it was easier than I was expecting. I think our rehearsal in the garage helped. I also brought some plastic wheel chalks to stop the tubes from rolling on me while putting the frame in place. That helped tremendously.
> 
> Over all, everything went smoothly. The wife was able to lift her end (much to my surprise). I dropped the frame, cooler, and dry boxes off to the side of the ramp. Then I filled the tubes in the parking lot and carried them down to the rest of the gear. I strapped everything into place, carried the boat into the water (with the wife's help) so that there was only 3' left sitting on the ramp. This required getting wet up to knee deep - no big deal.
> 
> ...


Cool. Sounds like you are on your way. Moab daily will be a good first run for you.


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## merritrd (Feb 1, 2010)

You might want to look into putting your wife behind you when you row in colder water. After a few trips I was instructed to modify the frame so she sat in the back and I broke the waves for her.


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## David Miller (May 23, 2010)

Speaking from experience this is a VERY VERY good idea.




merritrd said:


> You might want to look into putting your wife behind you when you row in colder water. After a few trips I was instructed to modify the frame so she sat in the back and I broke the waves for her.


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## punisher660 (Jul 6, 2013)

That is how it is currently setup. But that does bring up another question - on the lake, the cat seemed to sit nose high. The cooler was pretty empty, so that doesn't really surprise me with me in the middle and the wife at the back.

But - is this normal, or do I just have to move the frame farther forward? Also, how close together should the oars be? The ends of the handles touch when both are brought into their center position.

Also, how close should the oars be to your body? If they are too close, and the mounts are the welded hoop type, what do you do?

Sorry for all the questions - there is so much to learn here.


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## merritrd (Feb 1, 2010)

I make sure the ends of the oars don't touch. I have an inch + between the ends

You want to make sure the ends don't bite your thumbs if they get between the oars and squeezed.


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## punisher660 (Jul 6, 2013)

merritrd said:


> You want to make sure the ends don't bite your thumbs if they get between the oars and squeezed.


That makes sense. I will adjust the oar rights accordingly - but it does sound like you keep them fairly close. I was picturing having them about a foot apart.


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## merritrd (Feb 1, 2010)

If you get too much oar outbound of the pivot point you will lose your mechanical advantage and they will not be balanced.

My towers are between 9" and 10" from the front of a flip seat. The kid rows the smaller reach. I am 6'5" and have long arms. One factor will the oar handles clear your pdf when you pull the handles back. I hate rubbing my thumbs on the pdf when I push.


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## punisher660 (Jul 6, 2013)

I didn't even think about the balance/mechanical advantage point. Lots to read about on here.


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## cataraftgirl (Jun 5, 2009)

Weight balance is important on a cat. Hard to get it right on just a day float with an empty cooler. Can you move your rowing position more forward, or at least scoot the frame more forward? Load the cooler up with extra ice on a day run to help with the weight. It takes some trial and error to get your rigging system figured out.


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## Schutzie (Feb 5, 2013)

punisher660 said:


> That is how it is currently setup. But that does bring up another question - on the lake, the cat seemed to sit nose high. The cooler was pretty empty, so that doesn't really surprise me with me in the middle and the wife at the back.
> 
> But - is this normal, or do I just have to move the frame farther forward? Also, how close together should the oars be? The ends of the handles touch when both are brought into their center position.
> 
> ...


I wanted to have about 1" between the ends of my oars when I had them level. 
Practice this until any other grip feels wrong; 
wrap your thumbs around the handle, do not put them over the ends. If you don't do this, sooner or later you are going to get a most painful thumb mash. And I mean scream like a girl painful; balls mashed in a vice painful.

Where the oars are in relation to your body is partly personal; you want to have enough room to pull through a full stroke without having to lean way forward or way back. You should be able to take a full stroke with your back straight, that is unless you like a sore back and back problems when you get older. You do not want to feel like the oars can pin you back against something behind you, cause sooner or later they will. You also need enough room to easily hook the oar handles under your leg or place (ship) them against the boat, cause you'll be doing that a lot. Unless you are a freak of nature, (or whoever set up the frame is), the pins are about where they should be. Probably easier to adjust your seat, and that should only be an inch or so.

As to the balance of the boat, you want it fairly even, but I always wanted more weight on the ends; You will want to learn how to run rapids forwards or backwards, cause, you know, that's what happens, and you want enough weight forward to punch through waves. You do not want a radically light nose, unless your goal is to flip. I also figured, should I wrap a boat, having weight on the ends would one way or the other encourage the boat to slide off one side or the other. Worst case, I thought if I could release some of the weight on one end, the boat would likely pull itself off. Never wrapped a boat, so I don't know if this is true or not. (knocks on wood).

The major rule though, is to rig it to flip it. Think about how all that stuff is going to react if you dump the boat upside down and throw it in a really big washing machine for 15 minutes or so. What's going to come loose? What's going to become a pin hazard for my body parts if I don't get flung 20 feet when I flip? What am I willing to donate to the river God, rather than tie it the hell DOWN? Where are the sharp edges and corners, and can I find them intentionally (and do something about it) rather than by painful accident?

Buy yourself a couple cases of beer, and get yourself invited on some trips with other rowing rigs. Observe, ask, and pay really close attention. You will figure out who has it right, and who gets it wrong for you. And, volunteer to do the groover while your new buddies drink your beer. It will get you invited back.


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## kazak4x4 (May 25, 2009)

Schutzie said:


> Buy yourself a couple cases of beer, and get yourself invited on some trips with other rowing rigs. Observe, ask, and pay really close attention. You will figure out who has it right, and who gets it wrong for you. And, volunteer to do the groover while your new buddies drink your beer. It will get you invited back.


Dude, you should write a river bible of how to be a river junkie!

In all seriousness, what you said is what I always tell the newbies. I've learned the exact same way, watching the old school do their thing. 

On my trips, if you sit on your ass drinking beer while everyone is doing work, it's the last time I invite you on the trip. That's what commercials are for.


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## Schutzie (Feb 5, 2013)

kazak4x4 said:


> Dude, you should write a river bible of how to be a river junkie!
> 
> In all seriousness, what you said is what I always tell the newbies. I've learned the exact same way, watching the old school do their thing.
> 
> On my trips, if you sit on your ass drinking beer while everyone is doing work, it's the last time I invite you on the trip. That's what commercials are for.


.....and taking the last beer. That would do it for me.


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## Beardance42 (May 12, 2008)

Welcome to the best sport in the known universe, bud. We'll look for ya on the river.


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## mjibilian (Sep 9, 2008)

*Perhaps someone should address*

cooler draining.


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## Schutzie (Feb 5, 2013)

mjibilian said:


> cooler draining.


Dear God. Okay fine. It doesn't really matter, but we always drained them, more because we were already loaded up like $2 mules, and it was just extra weight to haul around. 

But we packed a bit different. We had two coolers for each day; a food cooler and a drink (beer) cooler, all carefully and clearly labeled. A food cooler had day 1 dinner, day 2 breakfast, and day 2 lunch. We also had a lunch cooler, it started out holding day 1 lunch.
The first meal we served was lunch, so when it was time we tossed the lunch cooler and drink (beer) cooler on the beach and ate.
In camp, we tossed the day one food cooler and day one drink (beer) cooler on the beach, along with the lunch cooler.
As soon as we did that, dinner came out of the cooler to unfreeze, day two lunch went in the lunch cooler and it went back on the boat (with ice from the food cooler if needed) and day two breakfast stayed in the cooler until the next morning. The cooler was opened once to do all this, and then closed up again.
The next morning we cleaned out the day one cooler, and any extra ice went in the days drink (beer) cooler. That day's Trash went into the day one food and drink (beer) coolers. Passengers were allowed to get in the drink (beer) cooler, but warned that if they didn't close the lid tightly we'd make them clean out the porta pot. By hand. We also told them that any passenger who got into a food cooler for any reason would be summarily shot.

In 8 years running even 5 day Deso trips in July, we had one incident where a cooler didn't have ice in it when we opened it. A passenger was summarily shot. Problem solved.


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## Pro Leisure (Sep 19, 2011)

My thoughts on ice...


Block clear sculpting ice is the shit

Water eats ice

Beer & cubed ice is better undrained

However, I have discovered that if you fill your beer cooler with clear ice leaving room for 3 -4 beers to start and then replenishing as you drink works very well. 

Large 120 qt coolers never leave my boat during a trip, I prefer to go shopping instead of lifting a heavy cooler.

Never put garbage in a cooler unless you enjoy the sweet smell of the landfill, that shit stinks and does not come out easily.


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## David Miller (May 23, 2010)

As you say sculpting ice is much better than block ice from the supermarket. If you have a chest freezer and you freeze your own blocks layer by layer it will work as well as sculpting ice.

Learned my lesson about garbage on my Grand trip. When you plan your food think about the garbage and you will make better choices about what food you bring. Wash out cans and flatten them. Reuse empty plastic containers to hold the stinkyest of the garbage. Any container that can be washed before it goes into the trash should be.




Pro Leisure said:


> My thoughts on ice...
> 
> 
> Block clear sculpting ice is the shit
> ...


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## Pro Leisure (Sep 19, 2011)

David Miller said:


> As you say sculpting ice is much better than block ice from the supermarket. If you have a chest freezer and you freeze your own blocks layer by layer it will work as well as sculpting ice.
> 
> Learned my lesson about garbage on my Grand trip. When you plan your food think about the garbage and you will make better choices about what food you bring. Wash out cans and flatten them. Reuse empty plastic containers to hold the stinkyest of the garbage. Any container that can be washed before it goes into the trash should be.


IMO ammo cans are better for garbage. Used to store dry goods on the front end of use & garbage on the back. Cans are washed & smashed, but we normally put those with the beer cans into rice bags.


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## David Miller (May 23, 2010)

My problem is that I have two dry boxes and I'm not fond of putting garbage in them either. 

Other tips include try to burn paper trash. Separate the non stinky trash from the stinky stuff. Non stinky stuff can go into dry boxes. Carry lots of heavy-duty trash bags. If you use zip lock bags for food start the stinky stuff in these bags then keep adding layers of bag. An over bag like an onion bag will keep the plastic bags from rupturing. Don't forget that ash is trash too.


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## Schutzie (Feb 5, 2013)

Pro Leisure said:


> My thoughts on ice...
> 
> 
> Block clear sculpting ice is the shit
> ...


Never had a problem with the garbage smell; course, we washed the coolers out after every trip with a bleach solution. On the Grand, on layover days we burned the garbage and packed the ashes; no problem with smell there either. 
Hell, my duffel smelled worse most days.........
Just what is it you people eat anyway?


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## BoilermakerU (Mar 13, 2009)

We freeze water in old juice bottles and use them instead of block ice. That way, when they melt, you have a little extra drinking water at the end of the trip! They fit jut right in our cooler too.


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## Pro Leisure (Sep 19, 2011)

Schutzie said:


> Never had a problem with the garbage smell; course, we washed the coolers out after every trip with a bleach solution. On the Grand, on layover days we burned the garbage and packed the ashes; no problem with smell there either.
> Hell, my duffel smelled worse most days.........
> Just what is it you people eat anyway?


Good food my friend, I like to eat well on the river!


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## Schutzie (Feb 5, 2013)

Pro Leisure said:


> Good food my friend, I like to eat well on the river!


Duh! We ate pretty good as well. Really, garbage odor was never a problem for the coolers, scrubbing them out with bleach water solved the problem.


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## David Miller (May 23, 2010)

Come on Schutzie don't be giving your fellow Buzzards the "Duh!"

If you return a rented cooler to an outfitter that has garbage in it they will charge you for a new cooler. On a 16 day Grand Trip the garbage from day 1 will be pretty ripe if precautions are not taken.


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## punisher660 (Jul 6, 2013)

Well we did our first river trip and had a BLAST! The wife and I are both hooked. We did the A section of the Green River under Flaming Gorge Dam with a couple of friends.

We're gradually getting better at the assembly/dis-assembly and had no issues at all on this trip. We have learned a few little tips and tricks already to make things easier, and I think I will write them up in a post here for fellow newbs when I get some time.

So far, I have noticed that most everyone on the river seem to be extremely friendly and helpful - I think we are going back to run the A and B section in a couple of weeks.

Thank you all for the tips, tricks, and info - it has already proven to be most helpful.


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## kazak4x4 (May 25, 2009)

punisher660 said:


> Well we did our first river trip and had a BLAST! The wife and I are both hooked. We did the A section of the Green River under Flaming Gorge Dam with a couple of friends.
> 
> We're gradually getting better at the assembly/dis-assembly and had no issues at all on this trip. We have learned a few little tips and tricks already to make things easier, and I think I will write them up in a post here for fellow newbs when I get some time.
> 
> ...


Welcome to the new addiction. 

If you run "B" section, drive down to Little Hole first, reserve a camp site, then run back to A put in and launch. Sites go quick and everything is already reserved online what can be reserved.

Doing A&B in one day would make a long trip, B is enjoyed a lot more as an overnighter. I usually do a 3 day out of it and have a layover day to play at camp/fish and lay back.


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