# Helmet facemask vs chin bar



## johng (Apr 25, 2005)

I'm thinking it's time to invest in a helmet that has face protection, and wondered if anyone can offer advice on merits or problems with wire facemasks, protection bars, and/or chin bars. Seems like face masks would offer more protection, but chin bars wouldn't be in your field of vision and the bars might be stronger in the event of a hard hit. I wear glasses and need to have ready access to them because they fog. I'm leaning toward the Cascade full helmet with their chin bar because it comes in sizes (I also have a small head) and looks to be well constructed - any comments?? I was hoping that WRSI would release their full-coverage helmet, but it seems this might be some time away.

johng


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## thedude1683 (May 1, 2005)

Are you a place kicker or a linebacker?

No Seriously, Cascade makes a full helmet with moter cycle look to it... then you dont have to look through the mask or look like you are about to kick a field goal. I Think thats the way to go with face protection.


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## zbaird (Oct 11, 2003)

FNA has a pretty sweet chin bar/face . confluence had one the other day.


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## ttuff (Jul 2, 2004)

I have the FNA and love it. It fits well, doesn't hinder vision and sparkles. On the other hand, it is really hard for people to hear me when I talk and you can't spit very well. The wire mask corrects those problems but you loss some syle points.


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## ACC (Oct 30, 2003)

*style is key...*

and I can attest that the FNA takes hits pretty well, the chin bar does its job. I am not totally sold on the kevlar/glass and minicell combo of the FNA though because I have gotten a pretty good goosegg from a hit with the helmet on, where there didn't seem to be a tremendous amount of dispersion of the impact. 

Some serious creekers have gone with a hybrid approach and added a liquidlogic metal grab bar to the FNA (fits perfectly from chin bar to forehead) so that you have one veritical bar covering the opening. Without that, you can still take a paddle shaft to the nose on big drops.


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## Tom R Chamberlain (Mar 13, 2005)

I have used a cage style hockey mask for years and its great. Its white so it just dissapears when the background is whitewater. I got used to it after about 15 min. of paddleing and it has saved my face many times. 

I saw Alex H. wearing a really cool looking helmet on Escalante last week. It was a fiberglass helmet with a molded in chin guard. There is also a metal bar connecting the chin bar to the top of the face hole. It's right up the middle. It looked like a great helmet. Maybe Alex will post the info on it.


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## Ture (Apr 12, 2004)

I wear the Cascade with the wide chin bar for creeking. I like it, but the "bar" is more like a full face motorcycle helmet and it is very wide. It has 2 disadvantages: 1) when you spit loogies about half of them splat on the chin bar no matter how hard you concentrate, 2) when you are breathing really hard the bar blocks the fresh air and you end up rebreathing stale air. I don't mind the loogies but breathing the stale air bugs me enough that I'm going with a face mask on my next creeking helmet.


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## ski_kayak365 (Dec 7, 2003)

I wear the normal facemask with the main bar down the center and then across. You get used to the bar in the middle. I always use it no matter where I am (playpark, westwater, gore, esclante) to keep my glasses from being broken if I take a rock or concrete block to the face. You also get used to your friends giving you shit for wearing it on flatwater. Loogies are always the only problem. The full face / motorcycle helmet is good too, expensive though. It really depends on what kind of boater you are.


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## alexandra (Nov 14, 2003)

*WRSI face coverage helmet*

I contacted WRSI and was told that the helmet with face coverage will be out late this spring, maybe not so far off at all.


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## Paul (Oct 11, 2003)

Speaking of the WRSI...do any Front Range shops have them?


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## suigeneris (May 25, 2004)

*frugal angle*

If you want to save some cash grab a linebacker mask at Walmart and affix to your own helmut.


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## shaunotter (Jul 22, 2005)

Great discussion of helmets, types, problems, faceguards, etc. at Boof.com:

http://www.boof.com/forums/showthread.php?t=984


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## yourrealdad (May 25, 2004)

Paul
The Mountain Shop in Fort Collins should hopefully have WRSI hemets in on monday.


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## Swim team capt. (Jun 22, 2005)

Confluence Kayaks has the WRSI helmet in stock.
303 433 3676

It is a great choice to replace that older plastic helmet, but it is what it is, a plastic helmet.
It was not made to replace or give the protection of a good layup style helmet like a Sweet, FNA, Head Trips, ETC......

A plastic helmet stops the hit and the foam disapates the force before it gets to the brainpan...hopefully.
A layup style helmet is made to deform then disapate the shock to the foam then to the brain hopefully not......


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## boofyak (May 30, 2005)

I've seen the FnA with two liquid logic grab bars, diagonally placed. It was the best settup I've seen. 
Personally, I believe in keeping my head and body tucked forward when I roll. I've never (knock on wood) come close to hitting my face because I have always "tucked." 
Unless you learned how to roll by EJ. He's teaching a great back deck roll that keeps you completely exposed if your roll isn't 100% Then the full-face helmet is definitely the way to go!


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## shaunotter (Jul 22, 2005)

"layup style helmet is made to deform then disapate the shock" ?? ... Deform? -- Most of those things are SO stiff and tough that I can't see that happening, and I would think most wouldn't dissapate the shock as well as a plastic one except for the rare, truly high-speed rock collisions. Maybe the very well-padded ones? Impact-wise, newer plastic ones like the dual-layered and heavily padded WRSI and the carbonfiber-reinforced Sweet Rocker seem like they'd be much better at deforming some and dissapating the smaller-med. hits that make up the majority of contacts. If I were doing serious steep creeking or highwater IV/V, I'd want a FNA X Stream or something super tough, but until then, tougher plastic with good side/ rear coverage makes a lot of sense.
I don't think I've ever come close to hitting my face, and I tuck hard and fast, but sometimes things happen more quickly than you can react to and occasionally hydraulic forces will prevent tucking or even undo it -- that's when faceguards/ chin bars/ etc. are comforting.


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## steven (Apr 2, 2004)

anyone have experience with the cascade helmet with face mask? i am trying one and they seem to run big, and they seem heavy. anyone use one? thx


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## MtnMaVen (Dec 17, 2005)

*the great facemask debate*

While I've been quick to dismiss those wearing facemasks on the water as FIFO club boaters (east coasters may know what I'm talking about), I recently received a river-rock facial that left 11 stitches in its wake (and I know how to "tuck," thank you). What I learned is you can never fully protect yourself this way because you have to lay your body out there to roll some time, and it was at this inopportune time I happened to be positioned over a shallow rock.

Maybe face protection (and health insurance) is the way to go after all.


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## Waterwindpowderrock (Oct 11, 2003)

I would think I would have seen it by now, but is there ANYTHING that compares to the x-stream?
I'm too stupid to not have a full face by now, but that's the only one I've seen.



Kaleb


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## shaunotter (Jul 22, 2005)

There's also the Lektor Protektor:

http://www.shredready.com/products/lektor.htm

and the similar Storm Trooper:

http://www.fnaheadgear.com/


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## deepsouthpaddler (Apr 14, 2004)

Full face helmets follow Murphy's law... if you wear one, you will never need it, if you don't face + rocks = blood. I have a FNA and I really like it. The only times I think it actually prevented a gash were on "easy" stuff, very low water late season golden session, and a low water royal gorge trip. With the blasted rock everywhere in colorado, its good insurance. I've heard enough stiches stories from folks of all levels of boating to know that you don't need to be a full on V+ creeker to benefit from face protection. Even a small cut on your face can bleed like hell and put an end to a fun day.


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## lennie (Aug 24, 2004)

Never thought I'd be thinking of getting a face mask until yesterday.
I was takin' it easy at Golden caught a bad brace and whacked myself if the mouth with my paddle shaft - F that hurt. Now I need to have some dental work for a chipped and split front tooth.
I'm Seriously thinking of a face mask now. I've hit some good rocks on the helmet while upside down, I cant imagine if I wasn't tucked and took one to the face. Is it possible to retrofit / after-market an existing helmet?


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## shaunotter (Jul 22, 2005)

If you have an ear-covering helmet, one place to start is local sporting goods stores for baseball or softball helmet face guards (made my Schutt, Wilson, etc.) often for $15 or so with hardware -- these you can modify if you find someone or some way to cut a horizontal bar out of it for better vision, if you like.

Example similar to what I have on my old Pro-Tec:

http://store.linedrive.com/protective-gear-schutt-helmet-face-guard-youth.html


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## shaunotter (Jul 22, 2005)

Anybody tried the Cascade chin bar on a Cascade or anyting else?


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## IkayakNboard (May 12, 2005)

Damn, that Lektor Protektor looks straight up mid-evil. I like  Anyone have any experience with that thing? It says the face guard can be removed in case of a snag...but I'm curious if it's a quick release or if they expect you to sit there with a screw driver and undo the 6 screws while your head is stuck underwater.


Clinton


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## afox (May 10, 2004)

Ive got the pretator hardnose, it looks like shit but it does'nt restrict vision or speaking at all. Messing around on late season poudre runs that most people would consider too low to boat its definitley saved my face a few times.

People have told me that the one drawback of a facemask/chinbar (besides looks) is that it can get snagged on rocks but Ive never actually heard of that happening. I browsed through the accident reports on American Whitewater and could'nt find anything either. Anyone ever know someone whos facemask/chinbar got caught on something while upside down?


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