# Cache La Poudre compared to Arkansas?



## Red West (Sep 3, 2008)

I just moved to Fort Collins and I'm looking forward to the coming season.
I spent last summer rafting Arkansas mainly Big Horn, Parkdale, Brown's, and did RG once. I like longer runs with some III/IV- type stuff.

I'm just starting to read up on the Poudre, but not finding alot of details or maps so far. Any recommendations for longer raft runs, is there anything similar to what I'm used to on the Arkansas?


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## kayakfreakus (Mar 3, 2006)

I think you will be stoked, run steven's gulch all the way down to the bridges takeout. Nothing but class 4 fun. I think rafts need about 3 or closer to 4 feet on the pineview gauge for the upper sections. Its all roadside so an easy scout, but level dependent on your Ark runs I think they only real looker would be Pineview, but maybe I am sandbagging a bit....

Check out:

Kayaking Information

They break down a lot of the sections I believe.


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## raftus (Jul 20, 2005)

At higher flows (like 5 ft) Pineview is IV+ in my book. Several of the upper rapids and Cardiac Corner also rate on the IV scale. At higher flows I have seen carnage and a lack of eddies that can be problematic for flipped rafts/swimmers. Lower flows are boney and technical.

The Poudre is more technical in general than the Ark and generally has a smaller riverbed. Stevens Down is somewhat similar in difficulty to the Royal Gorge. 

The upper stuff is good in a raft till about 2.5. The lower stuff is good to about 1.3, but commercial companies push rubber down Bridges to about .7. 

You might want to start with Lower Mish and Bridges, although the shuttle mid run is a PIA w/o a shuttle driver.

Clear Creek is also an option that isn't to far away. It has everything from class II/III to class V. It is a smaller riverbed than the Cache La Poudre, and has a great number of rapids per mile.


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## gannon_w (Jun 27, 2006)

Let me tell you welcome to the north side and I hope you have fun 
putin it (raft) in the Poudre. 

Stevens down is fun (10ish miles) and below 2.0 you only have to watch out for lower mish in a raft...Hit me up and I'll lead you down.

Oyeh...you'll have to put up with some jokes since your riding the Poudre now!


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## Rich (Sep 14, 2006)

There is also the Upper and Lower Rustic run. 
Great fun higher up the canyon. Fifteen miles of class 3 & 4.
In a raft, I like 3.5 ft minimum and the Highway Bridge starts to become a problem at 4.5'.

But between that, it is great fun (if you remember to takeout above Upper Narrows!) and new scenery.


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## lmaciag (Oct 10, 2003)

This is the most complete resource to the Poudre that I have found:

A Users Guide to the Wild and Scenic Cache La Poudre River 

Quick search found it here:

Cache La Poudre River Guide :: Jax Mercantile, Co

Upper Mish to BTO is one of my favorite runs.


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## Red West (Sep 3, 2008)

Thanks for the welcome and notes on the Poudre.
Overall I'm getting a sense that the Poudre is a little less forgiving than the Ark, need to pay closer attention to the levels for each run. That's why I wanted to start reading up now. I hope to get a chance to meet up with some of you this season. I'm running a Jack's plastic 7-person Culebra cataraft as a paddle boat, have taken it in some pretty low water and did not hang up often, may be a good fit for Poudre.


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## Red West (Sep 3, 2008)

Thanks, just placed this book on order.



lmaciag said:


> This is the most complete resource to the Poudre that I have found:
> 
> A Users Guide to the Wild and Scenic Cache La Poudre River
> 
> ...


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## GoodTimes (Mar 9, 2006)

As mentioned above....that little river takes on new personalities with every few inches on the Pineview gauge.

Of all the rivers in the state, the Ark and the Poudre is where I've spent the most time.

I feel they're entirely different....they have a different type of "fun factor". The Poudre is awesome. It's just fast and technical...if the water is lower it can be very technical. Above 4' on the gauge and it starts to get REALLY fun and the upper sections are highly recommended....I think upper Rustic is one of the most beautiful sections of the river...lower ain't bad either. But below 3.5' on the rock they get pretty bony.

Fortunately it's almost all roadside and easily scoutable....get out there early with someone that knows the lines before the water gets higher...and get ready for some kick ass continuous fun when the water starts to flow.


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## bobbuilds (May 12, 2007)

This is all good information listed above especially the over looked rustic section. One thing I would like to add is the number of bridges from lower mish down. None of these bridges are a factor except 1 at the middle of bridges section. killer bridge. this is the only bridge i can think of that has wrapped a raft. should be your only problem, this and pine veiw above 3'5 or cardiac corner with a bad line to the left, or the hole at the botom of screaming 1/4 mile in the lower mish. Seriously, you should enjoy it just fine. these sections would be hard to row, the river is not that big. a paddle raft or small oar rig -14' will be fine. it is not common to see an oar rig on the poudre. the upper sections though might be a better option for a oar rig. upper/lower rustic.


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## Randaddy (Jun 8, 2007)

Red West,

You are going to love the Poo. I recommend bringing some friends and a paddle raft at 4 feet (www.poudrerockreport.com), setting camp at the Narrows Camp Ground and running Upper and Lower Rustic for your first day, camp at Narrows C.G., _drive around the class V Narrows section_, and put in at Upper Landing for a trip all the way down to Bridges Take Out. You'll run 25 miles or so over two days and see all of the good stuff at a great, fun, slightly forgiving level. 

That's Upper Rustic, Lower Rustic, PORTAGE NARROWS, Upper Mish, Lower Mish, Poudre Park, Bridges. 

That beats a Narrows, Fractions, Brown's trip in my book!


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## jeffy (Sep 17, 2004)

Raft == High water Rustic runs. 11ish (more?) miles of 3 and IV - that are bone chilling cold but awesome! High water only...


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## BarryDingle (Mar 13, 2008)

Buy a SuperDuperPuma and the Poudre is your oyster. Perfect boat to oar on the Poudre. Keep an eye out for me in the Grey Goose....


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## Red West (Sep 3, 2008)

What would you consider high enough for this run?



jeffy said:


> Raft == High water Rustic runs. 11ish (more?) miles of 3 and IV - that are bone chilling cold but awesome! High water only...


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## Rich (Sep 14, 2006)

Red West said:


> What would you consider high enough for this run?


 
FWIW: Ran it in a small light cat at 3.5'. I would say 3.0 would be low and boney. Above 4.5 there would be issues getting under the highway bridge between Upper Rustic and Lower Rustic.


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## raftus (Jul 20, 2005)

Red West said:


> What would you consider high enough for this run?


3.5 or more for Rustic, but it is runnable at 3.0 - usually a fairly small window, but it varies hugely depending on snowpack. As mentioned earlier in the post above 4.5 one of the bridges gets mighty low. It is easily road scouted on the way up canyon - but eddies aren't abundant directly above the bridge for rafts - so be sure to know where you are going to eddy out if you go above these levels - or put in below the low bridge. 4-4.5 ft is a really fun level, haven't run it above that but I could see some features getting big


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## jeffy (Sep 17, 2004)

The bridge is pretty well marked though, and the portage is no biggie.


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## muttster (Jan 12, 2009)

Last year was my first year back on the poudre in over 20 years. It was great to get back. I can't wait to go up to the upper sections this year. 

Hey Bob... I just saw your pic. Is that from our run down the Colorado last summer? My kids still talk about it  Maybe I can talk you into leading us down some of the upper stretches as soon as the water is up. I am Looking forward to a great year.
Mike




bobbuilds said:


> This is all good information listed above especially the over looked rustic section. One thing I would like to add is the number of bridges from lower mish down. None of these bridges are a factor except 1 at the middle of bridges section. killer bridge. this is the only bridge i can think of that has wrapped a raft. should be your only problem, this and pine veiw above 3'5 or cardiac corner with a bad line to the left, or the hole at the botom of screaming 1/4 mile in the lower mish. Seriously, you should enjoy it just fine. these sections would be hard to row, the river is not that big. a paddle raft or small oar rig -14' will be fine. it is not common to see an oar rig on the poudre. the upper sections though might be a better option for a oar rig. upper/lower rustic.


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## BoilermakerU (Mar 13, 2009)

I've been wondering about the Poudre myself, especially for a 14 foot oar setup. No paddles (yet), so that's my only option.

I drove it last summer, and there was a ranger that gave me a map while I was parked alongside the road that was somewhat useful.

I'd love to meet up with some others when the water levels are right and do Upper and Lower Rustic for sure. It's listed in Colorado Rivers and Creeks or whatever that book is, and it looks beautiful and fun.

That highway bridge looks really low, even at low water, but maybe that's because it's so damn big itself?

Come on snow! We need some water!


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## caseybailey (Mar 11, 2008)

Randaddy said:


> Red West,
> 
> You are going to love the Poo. I recommend bringing some friends and a paddle raft at 4 feet (www.poudrerockreport.com), setting camp at the Narrows Camp Ground and running Upper and Lower Rustic for your first day, camp at Narrows C.G., _drive around the class V Narrows section_, and put in at Upper Landing for a trip all the way down to Bridges Take Out. You'll run 25 miles or so over two days and see all of the good stuff at a great, fun, slightly forgiving level.
> 
> ...


Ok...so now you've peaked my interest. 2 questions. First, give me a ballpark time I should be watching the gauges to be looking for those levels. Second (don't laugh) a 16' cat with oars? Solo I feel like I can run crazy low and bony (and who doesn't want to captain their own vessel...whatever that is) Or do I suck it up, borrow little boat, spend a long weekend, and be done with it?


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## kayakfreakus (Mar 3, 2006)

caseybailey said:


> Ok...so now you've peaked my interest. 2 questions. First, give me a ballpark time I should be watching the gauges to be looking for those levels. Second (don't laugh) a 16' cat with oars? Solo I feel like I can run crazy low and bony (and who doesn't want to captain their own vessel...whatever that is) Or do I suck it up, borrow little boat, spend a long weekend, and be done with it?



Unless I have missed a major development on the Poudre, we are still at the mercy of the rock report Poudre Rock Report | Kayak flows for the Poudre River or visual reports for the beta on flows. 

Water flow can be a combination of natural runoff and releases from the upstream reservoirs. I am having a hard time remembering, but believe the peak flows that you are looking for are later May through June. Snowpack and weather dependent of course.....


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## Rich (Sep 14, 2006)

caseybailey said:


> Ok...so now you've peaked my interest. 2 questions. First, give me a ballpark time I should be watching the gauges to be looking for those levels. Second (don't laugh) a 16' cat with oars? Solo I feel like I can run crazy low and bony (and who doesn't want to captain their own vessel...whatever that is) Or do I suck it up, borrow little boat, spend a long weekend, and be done with it?


 
I've run both Rustic and Stevens down in both a 16' cat and a 12' cat.
At low water I prefer the 12' but they both work.


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## bobbuilds (May 12, 2007)

muttster said:


> Last year was my first year back on the poudre in over 20 years. It was great to get back. I can't wait to go up to the upper sections this year.
> 
> Hey Bob... I just saw your pic. Is that from our run down the Colorado last summer? My kids still talk about it  Maybe I can talk you into leading us down some of the upper stretches as soon as the water is up. I am Looking forward to a great year.
> Mike



Sure is Mike, that was a great day. I am looking forward to boating with you all again this season. We will be on the Poudre as soon as it starts to flow, hopefully some even more high water on the Colorado again too.


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