# Large cat tubes



## dogalot (Jul 6, 2005)

I love my 16' Lion (27.5" diameter). Don't really notice much difference from my previous 25" diameter tubes except that, with the more shallow draft, fewer rocks are hit.


----------



## okieboater (Oct 19, 2004)

Duct Tape,

I do not think you would go wrong with any of the tubes you mentioned in the original post.

I had Aire Leopard Tubes and so far they have made three Grand Canyon trips and no problems.

I have close friends with Sotar and Jack's Plastic tubes who have done the same and very pleased with them.

All three brands perform really well. My experience with my Aire Leopard is I could carry a big load and it did well. The size of my NRS frame tho allowed me to overload easily. So keep that bottom out of the water. I used a plywood bottom as that worked best for me. One big water trip down the Yampa early in my experience with cat boats, I kept getting requests to help out with gear bags. Just piled them on no problem with space. I had a good sized gent as passenger and when he came on board on the front seat side tube setup, that bottom went under a bit. The cat boat was a pain in the back to move around. On the good side, if I lined up perfectly it just blew thru whatever was there like a freight train. On the bad side, several times it took all I had to get back on line. It was a learning experience that I suspect all big cat boat drivers have.

Bottom line, I am a very pleased Aire owner, with river buds who are just as pleased with Jack's and Sotar. I like the Aire bladder setup for ease of repair, altho I never had a puncture myself.

I agree on your comment on big cats versus big self bailer rafts. Both are fun, but I like the cats better long as the load is reasonable. 

Make your best deal and go enjoy!


----------



## Wadeinthewater (Mar 22, 2009)

I am old and not particularly tough. I have a set of 30" x 20' tubes that I have rowed down the Grand twice. This boat is not for the adrenalin junkies. It rides like a big old Cadillac, a very smooth, stable and dry ride. It rows surprisingly fast in a straight line and tracks very well. 
Cons - It is a bitch in head wind or cross wind.
Pros - Most of the ladies on the Grand trips loved the ride and migrated to my boat . 
Bonus - It converts to a sweep boat for the MFS and a couple of rivers in Oregon.


----------



## mattman (Jan 30, 2015)

Okie boater probly summed it up, i will say i have all ways been stoked with my jpw gear, have 11' culebra tubes that cary a LOT for there size, little bugger seams to just go through every thing. Very manuverable, course it is a small cat.
Cats just seem to float slower in the current then rafts, Guessing smaller tubes should be faster then large tubes, including upstream breeze, just would get stuck more often.

After rowing a small cat, it makes me want a big one now! They are so much fun to row!


----------



## codycleve (Mar 26, 2012)

I love my 16' lion. as mentioned above you sit way out of the water so you catch a lot of wind and that is it's one downfall.. The boatpeople.con have new 18' lion tubes in stock.. They can be a bit borring on water that used to be fun and splashy.. they Just a big smooth ride and blast through and ride up over things.. They also draft very little water. on low water middleforks just load it a little light and air down the tubes and you slime over everything.. There is a lot of room for air displacement in those tubes..


----------



## Schutzie (Feb 5, 2013)

Schutzie had probably the second cat rig in Colorado that wasn't built from surplus J tubes.
21 feet long, 20" tubes and each tube had 6" "stabilizer" tubes along the water line; that thing would carry anything put on it and still ride high.
The problem I always had with Cats was that they rode high; the thing I loved about them was; they rode high. 
You could move that rig anywhere you wanted in the creek, precisely where you wanted it, even against a strong current. They tracked very nicely, and were as responsive as anything I have rowed. The thing was, in flat water with an up canyon wind you earned your keep for the day; the damn things caught the wind and didn't catch the current. 
Like I said, they rode high.

For the Grand it is a perfect rig.


----------



## duct tape (Aug 25, 2009)

Thx all. So any thoughts about Sotar or Jacks tubes for durability and maneuverability?


----------



## AlanS (Jun 18, 2015)

duct tape said:


> Thx all. So any thoughts about Sotar or Jacks tubes for durability and maneuverability?


I've had both; PM me if you want my thoughts/opinions.


----------



## catwoman (Jun 22, 2009)

We have a 16' Aire Lion that we built up for a Grand trip. Love it. We have a trailer frame for long trips, which we don't use for day trips. Keep in mind that a cataraft cannot carry as much weight as a round boat of similar size. Also wind is an issue, as previously mentioned. If you are taking the family out on the river, I'd suggest a 16' round boat for seating comfort.


Sent from my iPhone using Mountain Buzz


----------



## richp (Feb 27, 2005)

Hi,

I both row and motor a 20'x30" Jack's El Tigre Grande. There's more boat than boatman there (grin) but it's been a good rig for me.

It tracks well, and handles big stuff quite well. I have about 8"-9" of air under my floor, and I tend to think it actually rows better in headwinds because of the tunnel underneath, as opposed to the greater frontal area of a large raft. Of course a higher profile means side winds are more noticeable.

Rowing something this large just means you have to start your moves earlier or much more forcefully than you would in a small rig.

FWIW.

Rich Phillips


----------



## Wavester (Jul 2, 2010)

At the risk of angering people, IMO JPW is not in the same class as Aire and Sotar. It's welded PVC much like Rocky Mountain tubes without the discount price, I haven't seen them hold up as well as the other two boat makers.
Sotar are also welded but made out of a bomber urethane material, but lighter than Aires. You can customize color and dimensions.
Aire does make a great boat at a decent price but there is the inner bladder and if you do a lot of silt rivers there will be maintenance issues. 
It comes down to two boat makers for you, each has pros and cons.
Aire will be heavier and have slightly more maintenance.
Sotar will be slightly more costly, is it worth it?
Both have 10 year warranties now.


----------



## smuffram (Aug 10, 2015)

For stability, recommend you get a custom frame built that is wide 80"+ between the oar locks. Throw some 11' oars on it and you'll be the Michael Phillips of the river. Recommend min 1 1/2" ID pipe.


Sent from my iPhone using Mountain Buzz


----------



## ppine (Jul 1, 2015)

I like Wavester's post. I also like big boats and lots of flotation. The whole point of a cat is to be able to maneuver. If you are doing big water and long trips you cannot go wrong with the boats listed above. They might me unwieldy at lower flows, which is why they seem to be for sale a lot. I like 18 foot canoes, 17 foot drift boats and big cats. Currently I have an Air Jaguarundi, but would not mind changing out the tubes one of these days for something bigger. It is hard to have too much boat for the large rivers of the West.


----------



## paulster (May 27, 2011)

Wavester said:


> At the risk of angering people, IMO JPW is not in the same class as Aire and Sotar. It's welded PVC much like Rocky Mountain tubes without the discount price, I haven't seen them hold up as well as the other two boat makers.
> Sotar are also welded but made out of a bomber urethane material, but lighter than Aires. You can customize color and dimensions.
> Aire does make a great boat at a decent price but there is the inner bladder and if you do a lot of silt rivers there will be maintenance issues.
> It comes down to two boat makers for you, each has pros and cons.
> ...


It takes a lot more than that to anger me but I respectfully disagree - I have a 17 year old JPW cat with probably 5,000 river miles on it that has held up really well with zero issues that couldn't be blamed on me. My wife has an older Pack Cat with nearly as many miles, mostly overloaded, that I couldn't be more pleased with. Each boat has its merits and fans, but I disagree that JPW boats are in a different class, Jack, maybe, but that isn't a bad thing and is a different conversation.

There are a lot of good boats out there and the best boat is the one in your garage ready to load up.


----------



## tmacc (Sep 6, 2009)

We have a Sotar 16' x 25'' cat with a Sotar steel frame and an Aire Leopard with a NRS/speedrail frame. Like any cat, if you over load them, they become a pig-and-a-half. 

On rivers little the MF, Selway, GC etc, there are always two of us on the one of cats. I was cussin' the Leopard (and myself) on a 21 day April GC trip this Spring and swore I'd never take it down again. There were a lot of boats on that trip and I don't feel we carried too much gear, but there were days that were just a little frustrating. Similarly, I have taken our Sotar with probably more weight on it that it should have had down the MF at 4.5'' and that was a challenge on the upper part. It felt heavy and wasn't very responsive. In both of the instances, the tubes are too deep in the current. I admit, part of it is the fact that we only get out on challenging rivers once or twice a year and I'm a little rusty at first. It's not like back east where I could throw my kayak on the truck and go run Great Falls on the Potomac on Wed. evening or book up to Friendsville and run the Upper Yough on a Friday. Getting 60-90 days a year on the water was easy.

So, last fall, my wife suggested we get bigger tubes. Even thought the guys at Sotar thought it might be a little overboard, we ordered 16' x 28'' tubes from them. So far, we've only taken it down the MF at 2.5', but it was a huge difference. It doesn't dive into the water on drop offs. Responds much quicker in current. For obvious reasons, the frame is much higher above the water and we could straddle rock I wouldn't think of before. We're very pleased.

We have a friend that we boat with quite often with that oars a 16' Lion and he's very happy with it. We have another friend that has always bought JPW cats in huge s sizes, like 23' x 31'' and 19' x 30''. He ordered a 16'x 28'' set of tubes from Maravia. I haven't heard any feed back on that. 

If you do decide to get 16' x 28'' tubes from Sotar, don't let them sock you with a custom design fee since we've already paid it for that size.


----------



## gkelchner (May 21, 2007)

I have 16 x 26 sotar tubes with 4 bay frame, trailer frame and motor mount add on bay. For sale. Used very good condition. Interested? contact me. [email protected] for details and pricing.


----------



## FatGuynaLitlBoat (Nov 24, 2013)

Wavester said:


> At the risk of angering people, IMO JPW is not in the same class as Aire and Sotar. It's welded PVC much like Rocky Mountain tubes without the discount price, I haven't seen them hold up as well as the other two boat makers.
> Sotar are also welded but made out of a bomber urethane material, but lighter than Aires. You can customize color and dimensions.
> Aire does make a great boat at a decent price but there is the inner bladder and if you do a lot of silt rivers there will be maintenance issues.
> It comes down to two boat makers for you, each has pros and cons.
> ...


I also disagree with you. I'm not saying they are better or worse, but I absolutely put them in the same class. My first boat was a 15yo daddy cat that was always stored out side and sunburnt with most of the top layer of PVC burned off so that the mesh was exposed. It would still hold air for a week. I believe they use top notch PVC and are as good welded as any. IMO


----------



## ob1coby (Jul 25, 2013)

duct tape said:


> I've read as many threads on this as I can find w Google searches but still would like some newer advice.
> 
> I'm looking for comments on a set of large tubes for Grand and other big water multiday trips. Specifically interested in any of the Jacks offerings such as El Tigre and a large set of Sotar 18' tubes in say 27 or 28".
> 
> ...


I had this same question a while back. I like the leopard because it's a little more performance, but due to the gear hauling needs I would go with the Lion. Aire used to make an 18' Lion and will still make them with no custom build charges (I think). In my opinion that would be the perfect Grand Cat.


----------



## ob1coby (Jul 25, 2013)

This would be a FANTASTIC Grand Cat. I would put a trailer frame on both ends though or just get longer siderails.

20' Jack's Plastic Cataraft - Mountain Buzz Gear Swap


----------



## jakebrown98 (Mar 4, 2008)

I had a 16'x24" SOTAR for 9 years that I hardly ever used. It was gorgeous and durable but didn't come close to the carrying capacity of my 14' Hyside self bailer. Small light cats are GREAT, but I just don't see the appeal of hauling gear and people in a big cat. They are so easy to overload and turn into real pigs when you do... There is no place in the bow to flop into when you've had too much to drink (and row)... Contrary to others' experience it seems, I can't fit as many fun people on a cat as a raft which is a big part of the multiday experience. I don't feel that any (negligible) gain in maneuverability over a raft is worth these trade offs. 

But, if you want to haul gear in a cat, you need to think large diameter and long waterline length--that 16'x28" SOTAR sounds pretty good. Lion tubes and the old NRS Kodiak also have the proper shape. I just don't see a Jag, Leopard, or ST being the best.


----------

