# Make your own Groover



## pbowman

i have seen posts before about making a 1-2 day groover out of PVC pipe, but my search on the site does not turn anything up. given that the rangers are stepping up enforcement on this item for unimproved campsites along the ark, can someone re-post the link that gives the material list and instructions to make a PVC pipe groover.

i would like to make a cheap one for use around the numbers campsites, given that there is actually a bathroom nearby at RR Bridge for daily pit stops. also, any ideas for a cheap home made fire pan to satisfy the requirements of these campsites as well? 

thanks in advance. later.


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## El Flaco

You can make a groover out of just about any airtight container- and ammo can (most sizes), or a plastic container. Things you'll need:

1. Two lids for whatever container you decide to use- one for a transport /on-river lid and another to install a flush valve and exit hose.

2. Go to and RV supply store and find the waste section. The large RV store in Denver has these items http://www.campingworld.com/stores/stores.cfm?store=27
3. Find a flush valve like this: http://www.campingworld.com/browse/skus/index.cfm?deptID=&subOf=252,19&skunum=3495 and install it on one side of your lid. Use liberal amounts of a silicone sealant. Install a PVC pipe for an waste tube http://www.campingworld.com/browse/skus/index.cfm?deptID=&subOf=249,19&skunum=21580 and secure it with a hose clamp. Again, use lots of silicone for all the spots you've drilled in your lid. The lid doesn't have to travel on the river, but it had better be pretty sealed up, or you might get the dreaded shit shower.

As for a cheap and very packable firepan, call up JJ at Raftin Styles in Salt Lake and have him sell you a 4'x4' welding blanket - I think they're about $40, and you can build a fire right on top.


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## Steve Kahn

*home made shit tube*

last time i was on the colorado, i got busted for my homemade PVC shit tube - it is simply a 4" pvc container, with glued cap on one end and screw cap on the other. the ranger said that in order to make it OK per the regulations, i would need to add some kind of powder that chemically reacts with the crap to make it inoccuous and able to be thrown in the trash. he said you could get it at most of teh river outfitting shops.

anyways, i never got the powder, but if you are looking to have the shit tube for a more disposable option that is cheaper and satisifes the rangers, this will be easier.

however, i remember a few years ago that the westwater rangers had groovers for kayaks that was only an airtight container, no powder. . .. 

go figure.

anyone know what the powder is?


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## Andy H.

Why not just spend a few bucks on a WAG bag?


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## Caspian

Westy and the Ark are under different jurisdiction and therefore different groover rules. You can just go to a surplus store and get an ammo can, then if you want to avoid the grooves, cut sections of PVC pipe so you can slide them onto the rim. Cost is probably $5-10 and you can just dump it into the vault at the RR bridge. This is what I've used for the required day groover at WW and it's simple to pack and no leakage (!!!). Also a screwtop food-service container coupled with newspaper for making shit burritos works well, but is not as friendly for disposal at the end of the day.


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## Salto

I'm with Andy H.. No reason for a home made deal, just spend $3 on a WAG bag (good for three people/per night). And a $5 ammo can, (the true groover). Place in ammo can when done, and throw in trash after trip. No disgusting cleaning. Enviro correct, and the cheapest.


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## Dave Frank

The welding blanket, while probably a better actual solution, will not pass many regulations. I believe westwater requires your firepan to have 3" sides. A metal oil pan does meet and works well with hibachi style grate for cooking. They do not support a "white man's fire", but are just fine if you are keeping it low key or just trying to be legal.


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## Jamie D

Wag Bags work great.

I've gotten by on Westwater with a metal trash can lid before but I don't know if that still flies. I think you also need as ash can (ammo can). On the Ark, the existing fire rings are still OK.


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## zbaird

wag bag and pvc seems to be the best option for kayaks. as far as the firepan, the $40 blnket seems pricey and as dave said will not pass. there are some cheapo firepans out there. i got one for minimalist trips for 4 bucks at safeway. 12" across and 3" sides. there was an 18 incher with 3 in sides for 6. also comes with grill and legs i was sketch at first but it has held strong for a half dozen all night fires, the paint just flakes off.


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## redbeard

we used a 55 gallon drum bottom for our middle fork trip. cut it off with a sawzall about an inch taller than you want and we used pliers and a hammer to crimp the top edge around for safety. couple of holes for biners and it passed the muster just fine!


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## Showboat

Hey Phil, if you want to borrow a groover,, just give me a shout,, Ive got the "real deal", ammo can with the tank, and seat. it actually fits into two ammo cans,, one for the tank,, the other holds the seat, paper, and cleaning supplies. you can borrow it anytime you want, I dont have any overnighters planned anytime soon, I also have a full regulation firepan, (belongs to a friend) so Id have to ask him,, but you could probably borrrow that too. Give me a call sometime

Ken


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## Showboat

by the way,,, if you do borrow it,, you have to clean it before you give it back


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## jester

*Why make a poop tube?*

Buy a WAG bag or just hold it.


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## stiff

How do the WAG bags compare with the Restop 2 bags? They are the same thing but I think the Restop 2 bags are better.


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## jester

I've used both and they are pretty similar. I think the Restop bags hold a little less but seal a little better. The powder inside is pretty much the same for both. You can buy the Restop bags online at many different sites.


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## Andy H.

After a good cup of coffee on the Ark this morning I field tested the Restop 2 system for the first time. Its easy to use, and is basically a cone-shaped bag with the chemicals already in it, that's fixed inside a smaller, tough resealable bag. The mouth of the cone-shaped bag you poop into is big enough that you can set the thing into a 5-gal bucket or, uh... just hold it open and do your business. 

The system comes with one hand sanitizer towelette and enough TP for a couple of judicious uses (unless you had that microwave burrito from 7-11 last night). There's enough room in it for a few uses and when you're done, you just close up the drawstrings on big bag which then stuffs into the smaller tough resealable ziploc-type bag. The bag can then be carried out and tossed in the trash at the takeout or the first gas station you come to. 

Spending $3 on one of these at the local boating shop seems a whole lot easier than rigging (& then having to clean) something home-made with PVC. Its also a lot easier than hauling a rocket box and groover seat on a small overnight trip.

I'd recommend bringing some extra TP and hand sanitizer if you're using it with more than one person. The bag can be opened without any problem and extra TP and hand sanitizing towelettes tucked inside before taking it out on the river.

SYOTR,

--Andy

FYI - Firepans and porta-potties are now required for camping on the Ark.


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