# Deso logistics info



## nicho (Mar 18, 2009)

I know spring/summer is a ways away, I am organizing a Deso trip for late spring and everyone is asking what the preferred shuttle route is. The BLM site says you can go through Nine Mile Canyon and flat tires are very common with 3 hours of dirt roads and 4.5 to 5 hour one way trip from Swasey's Beach. Or you can take US 40 through Duchesne and Myton which is longer but only one hour of dirt. Is the drive through Nine Mile Canyon better, more scenic, cool, does it really take 5 hours? Mapquest says you can get from Green River to Ouray in 3 hours 15 minutes going through Duchesne and Myton. Would you be missing out on some cool sites if you didn't go through Nine Mile Canyon? All that said what is the better route? Thanks.


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## kazak4x4 (May 25, 2009)

Through Myton, it's a much safer trip. You really don't want flat tires on your river days. And safe yourself some trouble and hire a shuttle company. Deso shuttle is a pain, takes too damn long. http://www.riverrunnerstransport.com/ is a great company, I've used them for years.


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## Skyman (Jun 26, 2006)

I second RiverRunners Transport. Ed and Melanie are top notch. Used them for years. On a Lodore trip, we had to have a person life flighted out. They went to the takeout, picked up the truck of the husband's who's wife was injured, and met him at Jones Hole so he could get to his wife in Grand Junction. They wanted nothing extra. They just wanted to help and were happy things worked out. We gave them a big tip.


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## kazak4x4 (May 25, 2009)

I've left 10 bucks in the car as a tip and 30 bucks for gas. I labeled the gas money but forgot to label the tip money for the driver. Sure enough, when I picked up my car at Swasey's, I saw the change from the gas money with a receipt and the 10 bucks that I left for the tip  

I was explained by Melanie later that the driver wouldn't take any money unless it's labeled as a tip. I was amazed by the driver's honesty and gave a bigger tip next time.

They shuttle as a convoy to keep all cars together and never exceed the speed limit. I actually saw their vehicles once on hwy 6 and sure enough they were going the speed limit. That was nice to see for myself.


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## dograft83 (Jun 16, 2008)

Yes riverrunners is great We got a flat and they took it to a shop and had it fixed for us so we would not have to deal with it on the way home. They are very classy people!


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## rsmiller (Jun 28, 2004)

I prefer to fly. We drive our cars to the end and then fly back the morning of the launch. If you have never done the trip it gives a nice view of the river from above and some ideas for areas you would like to camp.


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## kazak4x4 (May 25, 2009)

I've flown once as well. The view and the ride is nice. The hike down is a bit of a pain. Taking the extra day for the shuttle is a bigger pain IMHO. But I would recommend flying once as well.

Cost wise, you do end up spending a little less per car, but not if you have to stay in a motel overnight.


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## LSB (Mar 23, 2004)

Half the crew drives down and flies back the other half rigs in the morning. I also recommend renting one of the screen huts for the putin night.


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## Andy H. (Oct 13, 2003)

Another vote hiring the shuttle and going w/ RiverRunners. Great company and you don't want to spend an extra day of your vacation driving. 

Another vote for going through Myton. I'll take 100 miles of paved highway over 50 miles of that rockshard embedded washboard any day.

If its in the early spring, the skeeters may not be a problem, but if its after the peak, bring the beekeeper suit for the put-in. I actually had a ranger check us out wearing one. She was understandably sick of slathering DEET or some other toxic crap on her entire body every day.


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## okieboater (Oct 19, 2004)

Was up there this summer for a first of June launch.

Skeeters at the put in were every thing and more than I had been told. Where are the bug eating birds etc when you need them!!!!

At the put in, Head nets are a must and the army surplus units worked really well.

When the year end sales hit, I got one of the mesh coat deals for my next outing on Deso Gray. That and some Deet on the hands should make rigging and loading much easier.

Our Trip Leader had rented the top of the hill screen houses and man that made sleeping much easier.

Took us 30 miles to get out of the bug problems, but at 12k cfs it was super easy to make the miles, we were launched by 8 am and easily did the 30 miles with daylight to spare and took a extra layover day. It was a hoot.

My first trip and with the extra bug net suit, I look forward to another hi water run.


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## Chip (Apr 7, 2007)

Done it various ways. Always from the north and east (i.e. driving from Colorado). Always with one vehicle. 

Self-shuttle (mostly)— Drove to Sand Wash, dropped boat stuff and partner, left about 9 pm, drove the Nine Mile Canyon route in the dark (not so scenic but no flats), slept in the car at the Green River airport. Next morning flew to Sand Wash with Red Tail Aviation, arrived about 8:30 am, walked down, rigged, and left by 10:00, pretty toasted. Red Tail had shuttle drivers on tap who picked up the car at the airstrip and drove it to Swasey's on the take-out day. I've also stayed at Sand Wash and rigged, while my partner did the drive and flew back. 

Shuttle service— Done this several times with different shuttle drivers. Last October, dropped a set of keys at Desolation Outfitters homebase in Roosevelt and asked the owner to check the car for equipment, etc. which he did. Unloaded at Sand Wash, with a couple hours of daylight, and set up the boat on the ramp by dark. Slept in a screenhouse. Parked car. Loaded and launched. The takeout day, upstream winds were so bad that we pulled off about 4 miles above the takeout. Deb hiked to the takeout while I broke down the boat and carried the gear through the jungle up to the dirt road. Just about the time I got everything stacked by the road, she drove up. Our car was at Swasey's, clean and in good nick. Here's the link:

Desolation OutFitters

A variation, with large parties, would be to convoy the vehicles to Green River with the drivers flying back. To find the boats rigged and ready to launch. The late-night drive and airport sleepout saves the $$ for a motel, but there ain't no water or toilet facilities when the office is closed, nor any convenient patches of trees or brush. If the drivers leave by day and aren't back 'til the next morning, the folks who are left at Sand Wash have to bear the bugs for a pretty long time. 

On balance, I think the shuttle services are worth the cost.


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## Bornwithatail (Mar 2, 2008)

*Yes on RiverRunners shuttle*

RR are great folks, and put your vehicle in thier locked lot in Vernal, and drive it down the morning of takeout date, ensuring none of Green River's less lovable characters mess with the trucks & trailers. Only way to go because of the shuttle drive length as well. Tip well, support drivers' river trips. If you have trailers, I strongly recommend NO on Nine Mile; it is that rutted, boats bounce. It is also that rocky. And there's gas/air/ice/horrible pizza NW 1 mile on hgwy past the put in entrance turn @ Myton.


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## BackCountry (Nov 22, 2009)

Paid a shuttle service this last year. They took the dirt road to Hwy 6 and then to Green River. When we got to the take out the vehicles looked like they had done the Utah version of the Dakar Rally. All the trucks were ok except for some loose nuts and bolts. Every one of the groups street vehicles, mostly Subaru's, had flat tires in the parking lot. This made for a lot of extra work for those people on take out day.

The shuttle drivers claimed it only takes them just over 3 hours each way via that rout. The next trip this spring we will try something different. Instead of paying the $150 per vehicle to shuttle them, we are going to drop a shuttle car off at Swaseys and proceed to Sand Wash. Leaving the vehicles at Sand Wash is probably a little safer and we can do the rigging and be on our way same day - keeping the bugs to a minimum hopefully. At the end of the trip we will plan on a final night on the beach at Swaseys rapid. A group can take the shuttle vehicle to get the trucks and the heavy drinkers have the rest of the day/night to sober up and de-rig before driving back to Colorado.


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## TheCanyonWren (Aug 22, 2009)

BackCountry---out of curiosity, who did you use for your shuttle service?


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## BackCountry (Nov 22, 2009)

My brother set up the trip and my group was invited at the last minute to fill in spaces on the permit. We ended up organizing and supplying the gear for the trip but he took care of the shuttle arrangements. I can not seem to locate the name of the company in any of my old e-mail communications with him. I do remember they were out of Moab though. I will see if I can track it down.


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## kazak4x4 (May 25, 2009)

BackCountry, you should give RiverRunnersTransport a call, there is no way they'd take the dirt road through NineMile, their reputation is worth much more now.


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## BackCountry (Nov 22, 2009)

I'll definitely contact them should we choose to do another paid vehicle shuttle. Everyone here has given them good praise on how they run their shuttle service. The company who shuttled our vehicles did not steal anything or purposefully harm the vehicles. They were transported, locked up and shut down as requested. The rout through Nine Mile over to Hwy 6 is obviously rough on non HD 4X4's. The road vehicles definitely didn't have the tires for how rough the dirt road was. My truck and trailer were in good shape at the take out. The driver was courteous and willing to learn how to operate my highly modified Power Stroke diesel since it has special accessories for work and back country travel that need to be operated before it can be driven. It is my understanding that many of the shuttle companies prefer the Nine Mile Canyon rout as it is quicker. I did ask the driver which way they take and found out at the put in that Nine Mile was the rout they were planning. They came in from that direction and said the road was in good shape. I wanted to know about that road as it would be the preferred road to use if doing a shuttle from Green River.

Out of curiosity, what does RiverRunnersTransport typically charge per vehicle for the shuttle?


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## kazak4x4 (May 25, 2009)

It depends on how many vehicles you have to shuttle. The price goes down after 3+ cars. I can't remember now how much it was, but I checked 3 other companies and RR were the lowest.


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## nicho (Mar 18, 2009)

kazak4x4 said:


> It depends on how many vehicles you have to shuttle. The price goes down after 3+ cars. I can't remember now how much it was, but I checked 3 other companies and RR were the lowest.


So this will be my first Deso trip and I will call RR for sure. It seems like the vehicle shuttle and flight are about the same price for 1 person or 1 car. Is a late spring high water float the best time for a first trip? No one in the party has seen the canyon yet. We are a small group 2 boats and a ducky. I ask because I did 2 1 day WW trips back to back in May of 2008 as part of guide training. The first day the flow was 18k and the next day it rose to 21k. I barley remember much of the canyon from Marble Canyon to Last Chance just good big whitewater, it took about 20 minutes between the two and we were paddling out. If we were camping it would have been hard to recognize spots and sometimes eddy out in time at these flows without someone that knows the canyon. Also we were on Lodore at about 22k after the Yampa Confluence in late May and if not for the veteran guides with us we would have floated right past our camps at these flows and not known what was coming up next, like what to scout, where to stop etc. Would high water on Deso present anything like this for a crew new to the canyon?


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## kazak4x4 (May 25, 2009)

nicho, before 2008, I would say just go for it. In August 2008 there was a big mud slide that created a new rapid called Joe Hatch (check youtube for lots of videos). This is a must scout rapid especially for new boaters.

That said, Deso is the best training canyon for expedition type rafting. It starts FLAT, and I mean the paddle out on WW is a walk in the park compare to first 25 miles of Deso! So launch early from Sand Wash, or pay the price of the winds. 

After you get the first 25 miles under your belt, the canyon starts to drop slowly and the rapids get bigger as you go further. So it's perfect to test your skills and warm up before you hit the bigger stuff.

The mandatory scouts I would recommend for new boaters are: 

Steerridge (scout is on the left steep bank, right as the river starts turning left and you hear the roar, don't miss it). The easy run is on the river left. A very obvious tongue, straight forward, big wave train. The right channel is open in high water and has a fun hole to punch through. 

Joe Hatch (a mandatory scout on the river right) you have plenty of time to get to the right once you hear the roar. Go past the huge standing pool of water on the right and an island, then hug the right side and find a good spot to pull over to scout, there are a few scout points now. The Joe Hatch can be run on Left or Right channels. Left channel is the biggest and flipped a lot of folks, but it's more straight forward. A huge wave train, passing a big hole on the right and then pull away from the Rock wall like Sock It to Me. The right side is a rock garden, at high flow everything should be under water and might be an easier route for newer boaters. Scout it.

Coalcreek - This one used to be the biggest rapid in Deso until Joe Hatch evolved. The scout is on river right, right before the river turns right. A single scout point in the bush, so don't miss it. Coalcreek is a two channel run as well. One is on the left, which is the easiest, but the current pushes you to the right, so you just need to muscle a bit to keep in the left flow. The right current will put you into the Thunderous Hole, at high flow it will most likely be washed out, but in the lower teens it's a bit hole to punch! After you get through the Thunderous Hole just stay off the right wall and you are home free.

Wire fence - The scout is on the river right at the end of a huge eddy on the right. It's self explanatory once you see it. Just stay in the current, drop over a boulder and zig zag through some exposed rocks. 

Rattlesnake - is the last rapid that could cause some havoc. The current really huge the right wall and there is some pressure pushing you against the wall. So just avoid hitting rocks/wall as you are going down it.

There are a lot more wave trains along the way, but most are 2s maybe low 3s.

Have fun, hopefully I will be launching about the same time as you


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## TheCanyonWren (Aug 22, 2009)

doesn't wire fence come before coal creek?


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## kazak4x4 (May 25, 2009)

TheCanyonWren said:


> doesn't wire fence come before coal creek?


Yes, I got carried away 

I never scouted Wire Fence though, I know where the scout is however. I always just pull to the left and scout it standing on the cooler.


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## BackCountry (Nov 22, 2009)

Joe Hutch rapid isn't bad. There is a hole in the middle that looks nasty and will stop a boat, but it is not as bad as it looks. We tried and tried to get a Mini Me and IK to flip in the meat of the rapids and couldn't. Was fun trying though. It's an easy scout to see what is coming. Flow was at around 3700 CFS. The rest of the rapids were read and run.


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## Chip (Apr 7, 2007)

Coupla footnotes: I found the rapids more fun at higher water, and some of the nice camp spots are actually more accessible than at low water, when you have to negotiate mudflats and slime. 

The new Joe Hutch rapid resulted from a flashflood, not a mudslide. We ran it in October low water on the left, sloping down the right side of the tongue. Pretty much the only choice at that level. Fun little bounce. Probably changed quite a lot, as the boulders sort out. 

Steer Ridge (basically a straight left run down the tongue) can be scary if there's a big pile of driftwood on the rock fence at top right: it looks like you'll be sucked underneath, so everyone goes too far left and bonks the cliff or gets sucker-punched by the sneaker hole in Surprise Rapid, immediately downstream— one of my two flips on Deso, in a Pack Cat. 

About Wire Fence Rapid, there are two lines: the left has more water and bigger waves. But there's a sweet campsite just up from the sandbar at the tail of the rapid, river right. I like to hit Wire Fence in the afternoon, pull right and beach for the nice camp (you can carry a duckie up and run the drop multiple times, sideways, backwards, or swim it). That's also good because it's not far to Three Fords Rapid, which can be a more intimidating run. Nice to do it fresh, with a good load of coffee, before the wind comes up. 

My other flip was on Three Fords, having a savage gust blow my Pack cat crossways at the top of a wave. I dumped, gasped, and climbed back on top, two or three waves along. Ellen (Meloy) was rowing the beer barge and saw me take a dive, then had to concentrate on keeping out of trouble. When she looked back upstream, I was paddling like nothing had happened. She thought she'd imagined it. 

Coal Creek Rapid (wide, rocky and complicated) takes a good scout and some tactical thinking because there's no simple line. If you miss the hole at the top and go straight, you hit the ones just beyond. So you need to plot your moves and dig deep at the right moment. I recall only one hole that might flip a full-size raft, at right center, but there are quite a few rocks you can get hung on. And spin off and hit the next hole. Ka-floop!


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## nicho (Mar 18, 2009)

Chip said:


> Coupla footnotes: I found the rapids more fun at higher water, and some of the nice camp spots are actually more accessible than at low water, when you have to negotiate mudflats and slime.
> 
> The new Joe Hutch rapid resulted from a flashflood, not a mudslide. We ran it in October low water on the left, sloping down the right side of the tongue. Pretty much the only choice at that level. Fun little bounce. Probably changed quite a lot, as the boulders sort out.
> 
> ...


Sounds like you'll be ok if you square to everything and stay off the rocks. How big is a Pack Cat? How does high water Deso compare to high water WW? I assume you have more recovery time between rapids and more land to swim to instead of cliff walls like WW. I compare to WW because thats biggest high water I've done.


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## kazak4x4 (May 25, 2009)

Chip, I am surprised you had that experience at high water? I guess strong winds counted for some of that. At high water on Deso things are a lot easier and washed out. 

Coal Creek is a technical run at mid to low level when I was there, at high water (18-19k) we hardly noticed it, didn't even stopped to scout. Same for Steer ridge, at high flow the water is a lot faster, but it washes out a lot of obstacles and rocks.

nicho, yes there is plenty of spacing between rapids to recover and it's not tight like WW is.


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## atg200 (Apr 24, 2007)

I was surprised at how technical Coal Creek was at 1600 cfs. The hole is a wrap rock at that level, and of course i got hung up on a rock just above it and ended up headed straight for it when I finally managed to get dislodged from the rock. I had to dig really deep to avoid that one. I'd love to do it again at higher water.


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## Skyman (Jun 26, 2006)

BackCountry said:


> Joe Hutch rapid isn't bad. There is a hole in the middle that looks nasty and will stop a boat, but it is not as bad as it looks. We tried and tried to get a Mini Me and IK to flip in the meat of the rapids and couldn't. Was fun trying though. It's an easy scout to see what is coming. Flow was at around 3700 CFS. The rest of the rapids were read and run.


Try it at 15,000 and it is a different story. A raft flip fest.

I've done Deso at very low water (2000 cfs) and bigger water, 12,000 - 15,000. I much prefer the higher water. I thought it was quite a bit easier at lower flows. Just lots of rocks to hit. Nice big beaches for camping, though. Much, much more exciting at higher flows. We only scouted Joe Hutch. Had a IK in the group that took a big swim in Coal Creek. Got sucked right into the "thunderous" hole. Swam clear to the end. He took another swim in three fords and rattlesnake.

Skyman


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## nicho (Mar 18, 2009)

How well is the no stopping/hiking/camping on the east side of the river enforced? Does anyone ever get a permit (for any reason) to access river left on the tribal lands?


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## BarryDingle (Mar 13, 2008)

SHould probably show some respect and courtesy and get the permit if your going on 'tribal land.'


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## nicho (Mar 18, 2009)

I have no problem getting the permit just seein if its necessary for any reason. Or say you stop on river left for whatever reason are you going to get a big fine etc. Wouldn't camp/hike without the permit.


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## Skyman (Jun 26, 2006)

For the minimal cost of the permit, I would get it. Wind, weather, competition for camps, its just good insurance. The camps aren't as nice.

Kyle


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## BackCountry (Nov 22, 2009)

Skyman said:


> Try it at 15,000 and it is a different story. A raft flip fest.
> 
> I've done Deso at very low water (2000 cfs) and bigger water, 12,000 - 15,000. I much prefer the higher water. I thought it was quite a bit easier at lower flows. Just lots of rocks to hit. Nice big beaches for camping, though. Much, much more exciting at higher flows. We only scouted Joe Hutch. Had a IK in the group that took a big swim in Coal Creek. Got sucked right into the "thunderous" hole. Swam clear to the end. He took another swim in three fords and rattlesnake.
> 
> Skyman


I am planning to do a high water trip this spring. I think it will make the trip even more enjoyable. The low water trip was a good booze cruze. No bugs or wind for that trip and very family friendly. This was mid August. We had 9 kids ages 2-13 on the trip, most under 8. They loved it. Most of us are used to bigger water but all agreed that the trip was well worth while.

The reservation permit is only $25 for the week and well worth it. There were several camps that we stayed in that were very nice with large beaches and cottonwoods. Good hikes also.


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## joecoolives (Jun 17, 2009)

kazak4x4 said:


> Through Myton, it's a much safer trip. You really don't want flat tires on your river days. And safe yourself some trouble and hire a shuttle company. Deso shuttle is a pain, takes too damn long. "Self-guided, full support river running and white water rafting adventures: safe shuttle services, full or partial support river trips available, and complete, delicious meals are prepared. Whitewater river trips include: Gate of Lodore, Lower Yampa is a great company, I've used them for years.


 Getting excited for the river year!
We did the flight this year and the walk down made my quads ache. wasn't used to the steep walk down. 

On another thought, because we didn't have the vehicles to throw things in that were overlooked or not needed, they had to be packed and taken down the river with us. I ended up with a duffle of crap on my deck that I would have rather stuffed in the van


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## BarryDingle (Mar 13, 2008)

Which one of you mellow,laid back rafters wants to let me and my gf on their Deso permit? I'll bring the goods. And 18ft of rubber. Mellow as fuck! I'll even clean out the shitter....which i can provide also.....


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## summitraftgirl (Jul 23, 2008)

I have been down Deso twice, and my husband three times. First trip was in Aug. 2007 - great weather, some wind, minimal bugs, nothing crazy that I remember about the rapids, and no carnage. Second trip was late Aug. into early Sept. 2008. We got engaged at Rock Creek, then hit Joe Hutch the next day. This was soon after it had flashed - it was VERY intimidating, even at those low flows. RIGHT before the rapid as we were pulling over to scout, we hit something in the flat water and it put a 6' tear in the bottom of one of our tubes. Thankfully, we were able to patch it at the scout using one of our Paco pads. My husband rowed through Joe Hutch and I walked it with the dog and one of the coolers. We figured we needed to get some weight off the boat in case he hit one of the sharp boulders. Luckily, he made a clean run through and our patch held for the rest of the trip. We had no other issues. Last year, my husband went just himself and the dog in early Sept. At Rock Creek Ranch he had a bear encounter. The bear was apparently living there and chased him about a mile down-river, until the bear felt that my husband and dog were far enough away. I guess a few days later another group camped there, even after seeing the bear (DUMB!). Someone slept outside and in the middle of the night was bitten in his back by the same bear. They had a hand gun and shot the bear - he was found dead the next morning.

Deso is a GREAT trip, and we have plans to go again this summer after the pups are allowed. I would say definitely scout Joe Hutch, as things are probably still moving and changing. All of the other rapids we've done as read and run, and had great success. Also, be EXTREMELY bear-aware; they are out there and that is their home - respect their land. We also ALWAYS get the reservation permit. You never know when you might have to camp on that side. We never have, but we've done some awesome hikes on that side, so the permit is worth every penny in my opinion. Most importantly: HAVE FUN and enjoy the awesome scenery!!!


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## sealion (Oct 13, 2008)

A note about the bears- I was told by Skip when he was the ranger there that the book cliffs are a dumping ground for problem bears from other areas. So they are usually wise to people. I don't know if that is still the case- that was back in the last century. I hadn't heard about one being shot by a river trip. 

I agree about the Ute permit- especially if you are setting up for rock creek- its nice to camp at log cabin on the left. 

The bugs can be baaaad. They will clog up your boat blower intake at the ramp. No kidding. They are worse on high water years- the water gets into the overbank areas and they multiply like biblical pestilences visited upon the unbelievers. 

Have Fun!!


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## 99ajax (Sep 9, 2007)

*Shuttle option*

I don't know if you've run your trip yet, but I've got an alternative shuttle for you....Stagman. We've used him the last 3 years and he's cheaper than RR. His number is 435-722-2140.

As for the Ute permit, I would get one. It's cheap and we've camp on the left side plenty.

As for bears, we had one come right into our camp at Chandler. It was a young one - probably last year's cub. He wasn't scared of us at all, but was pretty much just interested in going down to the river for a drink and then going on his merry way.

Have a great trip....we launch on the 20th.


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## Chip (Apr 7, 2007)

99ajax said:


> I don't know if you've run your trip yet, but I've got an alternative shuttle for you....Stagman. We've used him the last 3 years and he's cheaper than RR. His number is 435-722-2140.


He did our shuttle: good guy & excellent service. His website is www.desolationoutfitters.com/.

If you're coming from the north, you can stop at his house to drop off your keys and inspect the vehicle. He also rents gear.


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