# Does anyone really camp in the winter?



## iliketohike (Nov 29, 2006)

I don't know, I might be a little crazy. But I've invested oodles of money into being able camp comforatbly and with minimal wieght in really cold temps, so I can get out there and shred sick lines. Plus, if you've ever slept comforable on a -20 below night and wake up to the morning stillness that only happens in the winter, its pretty freaking cool man. I don't know anybody that gets out and does that kind of stuff for real. Everybody I know either say that love that shit, but are always busy, or more likly, just think its crazy. I started camping close to home in cold temps (ADK), and then progressively got more comfortably farther away and in colder temps. It's not bad if you take the time to learn and have good gear. 

So where are y'all? You know, unless you've got more money than myself you can't afford a copter, so if you want the proud lines, you got to like to hike. It just feals awesome to summit and then shred.


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## rklein (Aug 7, 2006)

*shelter*

what kinda sleeping bad, pad, and tent/shelter do you use?


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## iliketohike (Nov 29, 2006)

rklein said:


> what kinda sleeping bad, pad, and tent/shelter do you use?


A sythetic -20F. Though I am would like to replace it with down. A thermarest and a redgerest. (ridgerest closest to ground) A Bibler Bivy Bag and a shovel, sometimes I pack a tarp or 2 also. In the winter natural shelter is abundant, especially if you move some snow around. 

Also, a nice big down jacket I can throw on over my layers, a pair of primoloft pants and down booties are pretty key items as well. All of it together, sleeping system and extra layers, less than 15lbs.


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## Chief Niwot (Oct 13, 2003)

A buddy of mine and I like to go a night or two a year. I have had one night at -15, it was a little brutal for my taste, but a good experience.

We prefer to go on a sunny or dumping snow day versus wind and extremely cold day. We also like to go when the moon is up early to tour around after dark. Standing around after daylight can be cold and going into the tent to early makes for a long night, when it is dark at 5:00pm.

Your right, in that you have to have very good gear to be comfortable! We usually set up a four season tent (Bibler, North Face, or Moss) as I am a little claustrophobic for a snow cave. I take an air and close cell matress. I have heard of better sleeping pad solutions, but have not tried anything else. I have an ems -25 down bag and my buddy has a -15 Down Marmot bag. Mine is not the best. If your getting in to it, get the best bag you can afford, as it is your last line of defense for warmth! A good winter capable stove and spare back up is also a must.

We prefer to camp by a nice slope, track it, lap it, drink a little, build snow shelters, eat, drink a little more and ski some more. 

I think the hardest thing about winter camping is peeing at night and getting up in the morning to get moving and generating warmth. Nothing like sleeping with your liners in your bag and putting on frozen rock hard boots in the morning.


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## upshitscreek (Oct 21, 2007)

Open Boater said:


> A
> I think the hardest thing about winter camping is peeing at night


bring a pee bottle. life is good with a pee bottle. yes, very good.


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## iliketohike (Nov 29, 2006)

*pee bottle for sure*

Pee bottle is key. For awhile I never used Nalgene cause I lost them all the time and 32oz gatorade bottles come with gatoraide. they are also great for peeing in. Just don't spill or its a little gross. 

Down booties!!! Yea down booties. Over mit. I don't seek super cold temps. If it's miserable I stay in. But around tree line and in the north it gets super cold at night. I've definitely noticed that I feel colder at higher elevations then I would lower at the same temps. I think I well built cave is warmer and more spacious then a tent, personally, and it keeps you from settling in early. A bivy makes your bag warmer, but a good bag is key. The thing is, if you get cold, and you carry a down jacket and insulating pants and booties, you can sleep in them, and that system will let you sleep soundly to easy -45. I garuntee it, though temps that cold are hard to even confirm. I think if you been in them you can just feel the difference. 

I hope this thread keeps up.


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## jeffsssmith (Mar 31, 2007)

*Winter Camping*

I use a Black Diamond Megalite--2lbs. for shelter. You can dig a hole in the snow to stand or sit with your legs down in it and it is easier than digging a snow cave which means you can move each night to a new camp. Also use Pacific Outdoors Insulmat which is a hybrid pad of ridgerest type foam with an inflatable section on top for your hips and shoulders.


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## BastrdSonOfElvis (Mar 24, 2005)

If you build a cave, isn't it a constant 20 something degrees F regardless of the outside air temp?

I bought one of those downmats from Exped (OR). So far I've only used it in hot places -- very comfortable sleeping, though, even if you don't have the best back for sleeping on the ground. Supposedly very warm as well. Hopefully I'll get a chance to find out this winter. Kind of spendy and a little heftier than other mats (1lb 10oz to 2lb 12oz depending on model) but I'll carry a little extra to be warm and sleep well.


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## Waterwindpowderrock (Oct 11, 2003)

In every snow cave I've built I've found around 36 deg temps if you build it right with the entrance lower than your sleeping platform.

I think I need to get some down booties, that's a great idea that I hadn't thought of, I usually just wear my liners.

I used to have the lightest of everything, now I have a sled to take me to the way out places, so I can carry a bit more gear, it's so nice to not be quite as minimal (and you get there quicker so you have plenty of time to build a snow cave!)

Another great hint I learned from one of my gearhead friends is calcium carbonate (the material in the old miners' headlamps) you can gather a few pine boughs, toss the C.C. on the snow under them, it lights the branches on fire from it's reaction with the snow/water.

Another good winter camping tip is: waste your WHOLE SUMMER building a hut at your favorite riding area so you don't have to do any of this crap anymore!!! (can't guess what I did this summer, can ya?)


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## fet123 (Aug 27, 2006)

Cool place (no sarcasm), hope you enjoy it.



Waterwindpowderrock said:


> In every snow cave I've built I've found around 36 deg temps if you build it right with the entrance lower than your sleeping platform.
> 
> I think I need to get some down booties, that's a great idea that I hadn't thought of, I usually just wear my liners.
> 
> ...


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## TakemetotheRiver (Oct 4, 2007)

I can't say I'm a huge fan of winter camping given that there's nothing like summer time (river time), but I've done my share. I prefer a snow cave/ tent situation. Back it up to a hill, dig a hole outside the entrance to keep gear, stove, water, etc. in, you'll stay warm and cozy. (Open boater, thanks for reminding me about how uncomfortable it is to put a nice warm liner into a rock hard frozen boot in the morning; and ILTH, thanks for reminding me about the eerie morning stillness that makes it worth it). A good sleeping bag is key, although I've found that synthetic is as warm as down anyway as long as it's rated -20 or lower. As a high school teacher, I used to run an Outdoor Ed program and last year we took 12 students (14 and 15) and snowshoed to Andrews Lake (Molas Pass) in 4 feet of snow with a blizzard coming on, camped in waist deep powder and woke up to an extra 4 feet in the morning. The kids loved it. Not a single complaint for three days- they boarded, built snow caves, snowmen, snowramps, danced in it, rolled in it, and threw it at each other. In 6 years of teaching, I've never seen happier kids- it was awesome.


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## cadster (May 1, 2005)

With a pulka, you can bring a catalytic heater and reduce a lot of the frost buildup inside of tents.

I did a -40F BWCA trip with canvas tents and portable wood stoves that kept the inside temperature in the sixties.


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## BastrdSonOfElvis (Mar 24, 2005)

Sounds like a nice memory. I remember snow...glorious snow.

All this talk of winter camping got me fired up. I just went to bc.com and spent waaay to much on a nice down bag from mtn hrdwr. A wee bit of buyers remorse but it'll be worth it when I'm warm.


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## iliketohike (Nov 29, 2006)

The coldest I've done so far is Banff in January. We camped the whole time till a local put us up. The type of cold you feel pouring through the zippers of your bag. With my tele boots I don't have such a problem putting my liners in them as long as I keep them in my bag. My problem is motivating out of my bag sometimes. It's like that feeling you got when you were a kid all under the covers on a cold morning. 

Nice hut. I'd like to check that out. I was brought up with a strict anti-sled mentality. Since moving out west I've loosened up a bit because of the size of the terrain. But consider this; It takes a lot of, I dunno, something, to hike out a ways in the winter under your own power. Because of that requirement, there is a natural filter implemented by a progressive learning curve that keeps people safe and keeps the numbers reasonable. If we let sleds go everywhere anyone with the money and a trigger finger could get to our most prized places regardless of their experience or ethic. I think we should just keep things the way they are, and sledders should respect the fact that some people get out for silence and a 'runners' type high. And hikers should respect that sledding is a valid experience and each should basically just respect eachother and the boundries. Let that be. 

I'm going to put up a post for an event I am trying to organize. Last year we had a minimal response and it dumped right before the event so we all bailed, cause the snow pack was unstable that weekend. I'd like to have a party way out in the BC and get a bunch of people together to celebrate this bizzare passion. Just a fat 3 day weekend of eating and drinking and turns with a bunch of people all following leave no trace ethic. Organizing a successful event like that would huge!


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## Chief Niwot (Oct 13, 2003)

Yeah, I have thought about the pee bottle. Never measured how much I pee, I would hate to over fill it or have to stop before over filling it 

One thing I like to do before going in to my sleeping bag for the night is boil water put it in a Nalgene and put it in my sleeping bag. This generates a lot of warmth, when you first get in and for quit a while after. I then take it out during the night after it cools down. I should dump it and then use it for the mid night pee bottle!

I have also thought about building a small structure like Windwaterpowderrock, but I am sure that is frowned upon where I like to ski in Boulder County. I have seen these very small light weight wood burners that would be great for something like that. I am sure if the Forest service found it with me in it, they would fine me big time.


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## Waterwindpowderrock (Oct 11, 2003)

iliketohike said:


> But consider this; It takes a lot of, I dunno, something, to hike out a ways in the winter under your own power. Because of that requirement, there is a natural filter implemented by a progressive learning curve that keeps people safe and keeps the numbers reasonable. If we let sleds go everywhere anyone with the money and a trigger finger could get to our most prized places regardless of their experience or ethic.


You way underestimate what it takes to get on one of these things & go to the places that we really don't want them to go. It's hard work (I'm not talking about trail riding sitting on the ass, I'm talking about alpine riding)
most people I bring to where my avatar shot was taken never come back, it's hard, it's scary & you gotta know what you're doing (any backup here Twitch?). There's definately a stack of morons in each sport, but how much knowledge does it take to hike out berthoud or loveland, zero. I've seen some NASTY slides in both places, but many people think it's safe because it's easy.


For anybody that spends time in the BC & doesn't have any education, take the FOBP course that's mentioned on another thread, it's a great intro course that gets you realizing that you need more education!!
Halstead(probably spelled his name wrong) is a great teacher (cool guy too!)
if you can't make one of those check with Mike Duffy @ CMC, also a great teacher (and he sleds!)


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## TakemetotheRiver (Oct 4, 2007)

This struck me as funny because when you first mentioned using a sled I didn't notice your avatar and I thought you were talking about an actual sled- as in a plastic tobaggan like thing that kids slide down the snow in. What's funny is that this is exactly what we did on our three day to Andrews. Two chaperones were on telis and we hooked a couple of sleds to our packs and pulled them behind with a bunch of gear. It worked really well and the kids got to sled once we got there. A lot quieter than snowmobiles, although probably not nearly as much fun! 


Waterwindpowderrock said:


> You way underestimate what it takes to get on one of these things & go to the places that we really don't want them to go. It's hard work (I'm not talking about trail riding sitting on the ass, I'm talking about alpine riding)
> most people I bring to where my avatar shot was taken never come back, it's hard, it's scary & you gotta know what you're doing (any backup here Twitch?). There's definately a stack of morons in each sport, but how much knowledge does it take to hike out berthoud or loveland, zero. I've seen some NASTY slides in both places, but many people think it's safe because it's easy.
> 
> 
> ...


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## iliketohike (Nov 29, 2006)

ok fair enough. But I still don't think we should let snowmobiles have free reign everywhere. I think the way things are run currently, with motorized areas and non, is great. It is hard work. To be a good sledneck you have to be part mechanic, part ape to dig em out, have flow, a way to get it there, gas money. It's not that easy. And it does make otherwise long approaches laughable. No hate man. really.


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## Waterwindpowderrock (Oct 11, 2003)

iliketohike said:


> I still don't think we should let snowmobiles have free reign everywhere.


me either. Just gotta keep the balance between the wackos on one side & the nutcases on the other!

let's go play in what's left of the snow from last week!!!!


c'mon somebody's gotta have tomorrow off?!?!?!


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## iliketohike (Nov 29, 2006)

gotsta work dude. Besides, give it a bit more time methinks. At least up here it's still not time.


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## Waterwindpowderrock (Oct 11, 2003)

iliketohike said:


> gotsta work dude. Besides, give it a bit more time methinks. At least up here it's still not time.


five minutes from my door:

TR: Satisfying the "jones".....CO 10/20/07 - Teton Gravity Research Forums

game on.


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## rmpeddie (Apr 8, 2007)

*Ohhh October...*

"I don't know, I might be a little crazy. But I've invested oodles of money into being able camp comforatbly and with minimal wieght in really cold temps, so I can get out there and shred sick lines. I don't know anybody that gets out and does that kind of stuff for real."

My camping season is Labor day to Memorial day. I'm not much into summer camping. 

Don't overlook that fact that you're in Steamboat. Um, you might go down to the Starbucks and ask is anyone wants to leave their million dollar house for a night or two on Buffalo Pass. 

I really think (know) that there are others out there and you aren't the only one (how long have you been winter camping?). Yeah, you might be the only one in Steamboat though, but I promise, less than 2 hours from your town there are folks camping nightly all winter. And if you want to see how many people really enjoy a night in the mountains head up Berthoud on a full moon or even Cameron. 

Too early? I've got over a week (7days) on the snow already and I'm the slacker of our group (I'm still guiding). The stars and moon have been amazing. The big dipper has been freaking huge. Get out there and rip it... it's there.


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## iliketohike (Nov 29, 2006)

*yeah*

I'm heading out tonight dude. I was saying it's too early for me to bring my skis, but that's for me. I don't like carrying my ski gear for 2/3 of the hike and that's what I would have to do this weekend. Not to early to go out and play. There's still climbing to be done. 

My post was just to probe, not to say no one does it. I just don't know anyone up here that meets the following. 

Free (everyone loves to talk about it but always has something else to do), has the gear and experience, and is interested. Clearly people somewhere in CO are getting after it. I'm just trying to find them.

I've been camping in the winter since I was 13. I started camping a few hundred yards from where my parents were staying in Lake Placid during Christmas, and progressively got further and further out. I am 25 now. But asking how long is missleading - I would say it better that I have over over 50 nights during the winter season, with at least 20 of them including temps below -20. No shit. that's different than saying I've been doing it 10 years, cause in those 10 you could have only gotten out twice.


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## Waterwindpowderrock (Oct 11, 2003)

rmpeddie said:


> "I don't know, I might be a little crazy. But I've invested oodles of money into being able camp comforatbly and with minimal wieght in really cold temps, so I can get out there and shred sick lines. I don't know anybody that gets out and does that kind of stuff for real."
> 
> My camping season is Labor day to Memorial day. I'm not much into summer camping.
> 
> ...


wow, and I thought I was a smug, Starbucks & rich folks hating bastard, you might have me beat! 

just FYI, there's at least 7 cool people that live in Steamboat.(maybe as many as 9)





discover denver.....STAY THERE!!!


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## COUNT (Jul 5, 2005)

Let's see...1, 2, 3...nope, I can only come up with 6. Sorry.


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## iliketohike (Nov 29, 2006)

There are plenty of cool people that live in Steamboat. I don't like many huge generalizations. Just cause you don't like winter camping doesn't mean you're not cool. However, as far as being a hub for climbers and mountaineers, that it is not. Like I said in a previous post, the people that say they get out are never available and the people that are interested don't have much experience. 

I will say, never have I been anywhere with more of a 'you can't hang with me attitude'. When I was up in BC it took me 2 days to find a awesome crew. Jackson, I already knew people. Even skiing off the resort here I get attitude from people like the canyon is some of the most extreme terrain in the world. People just tend to dismiss before they take the time to find out who you are, and then when they figure it out they want to be your friend, and I HATE those types, cause its not about being a dick to those that arn't as good as you, and making friends with those that are better. It's about having fun and helping others have fun. 

Got back last night from a jaunt into the Zirkels to drop some stuff off for some climbing next weekend. It's prime out there right now. Only 4 parties up there yesterday, I was the only one camping. I think that speaks volumes about Steamboat. Saturday, full moon -I hiked in friday night, almost as bright as day. One party from denver climbing BA, the rest day hikers. That's it. In a town that prides itself in the mountain life that's shocking.

HOWEVER: the paddlers adopted me quickly and are a group of standup individuals who I am forever greatful for taking me in, teaching me, and enabling me to run some stuff I never thought I could ever do. This is not directed at the paddling community. Those guys rock. They just don't like hiking and sled in the winter. They think I am a crazy hippy or something for not wanting to sled. Paddlers in steamboat: Stand up!


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## rmpeddie (Apr 8, 2007)

_"My post was just to probe, not to say no one does it. I just don't know anyone up here that meets the following."_


One point I was trying to make was I don't know too many folks in Steamboat that are into that stuff. I only use Starbucks because it paints the towns picture perfectly... I do so despise the places though. Not to say there aren't cool folks that live there. The baddest woman I've ever seen behind the oars lives in Hayden... guess that's not Steamboat though. But a town I use to visit every few months just to see a stop-light is one I haven't seen in a few years. It's a beautiful town though.

Folks in glass houses shouldn't throw stones though. The original question, to me, sounded smug. Hence the reply. I have guided in the bigger mountains of six continents, can't count nights below 0', we use to do the Presidential Traverse over News Years (not only cold but one trip had steady winds of 70-80 with gusts to 120+). It was one of the best trips of my life. The weather was horrendous... it was great. I understand the exhiliration of the silence, serenity, and desolation that the winter mountains bring and have shared it with others for years. 

The last point I was making was that if you come over to the Fraser valley, more specifically Berthoud Pass, you will find that community you are seeking. Anything from no-name older guys who absolutley throw down on a daily basis to railers jibbin' in the tree's and everything in bewteen. There are always people up there skinning and camping and ripping and smiling and hugging... you know the rocky mountain way and they will greet you with open arms. Some are paddling guides on clear creek in the summer so if your down with water folk then there you go. I'm not saying move there. Nor am I saying that it's better than anywhere else. No place should be better than where you are, and if there is, then why aren't you there? Read with your own biases and take ownership.


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## iliketohike (Nov 29, 2006)

good post. I wanted to move to Leadville, but Steamboat had the best program for what I wanted to do at school, so I am here. My first day I moved here I'd never been here and was shocked when I found out the mountain had no tree line. 

I see what you are saying and I agree with you. This winter I will be sure to make a trip to Berthoud pass. 

The best way to get a post going, methinks, is to give it a controversial heading. I was hoping more peeps would have responded with invites and pm's. I'm willing to drive out of here to get after it. 

One I would like to do is traverse a good chunk of the Gore's. I'd like to do some teeners in the winter. 

But I gotta defend Steamboat as a town. Yes we are filled with rich people. But so is Aspen, Vail, Butte... What makes us different is that we are ski town USA and we are at least a two hours drive from anything over 13,000 ft. So I see why people hate, cause a bunch of people that live here think here is the best place in world. But there are some great people here, and I've never had stay in due to snow pack cause the trees. It has it's virtues, but I do agree, my most valued virtue is big mountains and a community that fascilitates exlporing them.


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## iliketohike (Nov 29, 2006)

Just wanted to update this thread. I've been camping every weekend since the start of this thread and its been great. I even found somebody to go with me one weekend. Bivied every time and can't say I was cold anytime. Beautiful, for sure. 

Heading up this weekend to hike Big Agnes. Anyone interested should get a hold of me. Open invitation to all. Going to camp one night, maybe two, just cause I like it like that. Who's coming with me!


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