# Another whitewater park proposed for Iowa?



## hannah (Nov 30, 2009)

Manchester, IA is considering building a whitewater park and developing their riverfront through town. Manchester is located in northeast Iowa about 1hr and 40mins south/south east of Charles City, IA. Where they are currently building a whitewater course. 

Manchester is planning to have 5-6 features with something for everyone from beginners to advanced boaters. 

This project is for both river and non river users, for anyone who wants to come down and enjoy the river. Competitions and festivals are planned as well. 

My question is... Would you visit the whitewater park in Manchester, Iowa if it was built?


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## lmyers (Jun 10, 2008)

hannah said:


> My question is... Would you visit the whitewater park in Manchester, Iowa if it was built?


I would not travel to Iowa specificaly to playboat, no matter how many features the park has. That said, it is awesome that a community in Iowa is taking the steps to bring kayaking to their river. It should be great for locals.


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## Flying_Spaghetti_Monster (Jun 3, 2010)

lmyers said:


> I would not travel to Iowa specificaly to playboat, no matter how many features the park has.


Ditto


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## Boilerblues (Jun 15, 2007)

The greater Dayton, Ohio area has one whitewater feature built (in Springfield), and there are 4 more proposed. Wouldn't recommend Dayton as a whitewater destination (do they make bullet proof dry tops?), but it's great for the locals


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## hannah (Nov 30, 2009)

Right, not a top ww destination... but something to go to if one was passing through.


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## Randaddy (Jun 8, 2007)

Somebody tell Fort Collins that two cities in Iowa and Dayton, Ohio, and Dallas, Texas have whitewater parks. If we don't keep up the Iowans and Texans are going to stop coming here. Oh wait.... hmmmm.....


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## caspermike (Mar 9, 2007)

Green river has a bladder system tell that to fort Collins..


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## weekendfisherman.ws (Mar 13, 2011)

I am actually a resident of Manchester Iowa, as some of you may have recently heard, we had a dam failure on the same river a few miles down stream for the proposed area last summer. Totally draining the lake that the river fed into with it. We have many outdoors men and fisherman here that lost a great place to fish when the dam let loose. The proposed area is the only decent part of the river that is left for locals to take their children to fish. My question is why on earth would they want to ruin what little fishing there is? As stated in some previous comments that people would not be willing to travel to Manchester but they intend on pushing forward with it. I have no offense for those of you that paddle and do it on a regular basis, but i will do all I can to block this from happening here.


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## Dave Frank (Oct 14, 2003)

Typically the structures that create waves and holes for whitewater, also create pools that make great fish habitat.

I know a women who write her phd thesis on how mutually beneficial a well designed park can be.

I'll try to get her to respond with more specifics.

Please don't go bashing the idea until you learn a bit more about the issue.


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## WhatWouldJesusBoat (Feb 26, 2011)

There's plenty of outdoorsmen and fishermen that paddle as well, my friend. And maybe they need a place to take their kids playboating. My guess is there are plenty of places to fish in your state, what about sunny and friendly Millville? And if I am wrong, let your fish flag fly and get your concerns heard locally to the powers that be. With all these new WW parks going up, I guess I am mistaken thinking IOWA was short for Independently Organized Whitewater Aficionados. My bad.


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## weekendfisherman.ws (Mar 13, 2011)

Dave, I appreciate the reply, i would be interested in reading something like that, but I should also point out that the part of the river in question is nothing but a mud/sand bottom. I guess, i just look at the area I am from and wonder why city officials have to try to "keep up with the Jones" when we are a town of 5,000 and a declining population.


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## weekendfisherman.ws (Mar 13, 2011)

WhatWouldJesusBoat said:


> There's plenty of outdoorsmen and fishermen that paddle as well, my friend. And maybe they need a place to take their kids playboating. My guess is there are plenty of places to fish in your state, what about sunny and friendly Millville? And if I am wrong, let your fish flag fly and get your concerns heard locally to the powers that be. With all these new WW parks going up, I guess I am mistaken thinking IOWA was short for Independently Organized Whitewater Aficionados. My bad.



Actually most call it, Idiots Out Wandering Around Sure there are a fair amount of places to fish in Iowa, we are about an hour from the Mississippi river in 2 directions. I guess, I think to myself, why travel for something when it is in your backyard.


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## JohnR (May 23, 2005)

given that people paddle in industrial waste at Confluence Park in the middle of Denver, sandy/muddy is not that weird. Good news is the survivors will become committed to improving the ecosystem.


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## hannah (Nov 30, 2009)

*wow,*

So... do you have any knowledge about ww parks?
Do you have any knowledge of the Charles city ww park?
Do you know that a ww park could boost our economy and recreational opportunities in Manchester?
Do you know that studies on ww parks actually improve fishing? A ww park puts more oxygen into the water for aquatic life (fish). 
Did you know that a ww park provides better fish habitat.
Did you know a ww park provides more and better accesses for fishing.
Did you know a ww park can allow for fish passage, instead of having a dead area where no fish can get upstream of the current concrete dam in Manchester.
Did you know a ww park can provide a safer environment for children and youth to experience the river.
Why not try to increase the waning population, rather than let it die, as you say.
Did you know the Iowa dnr has to approve anything that would affect the fish in any of our rivers. They approved the great ww park being built in Charles city.
So, you're telling me... you don't want better fishing for everyone, better river access, improved fish habitat and populations. You don't want to give your children a new park and and more recreational opportunities. And you don't want your hometown to benefit economically and give our residents something to be proud of?
Before you go blatantly posting, you better get your facts straight.
Did you attend the public meeting held in Manchester where the gal gave the great update speech of where Manchester wants to go with a ww park.
I grew up fishing below the faraway dam, so I'm all for providing more opportunities for everyone to fish and have a great park too.


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## weekendfisherman.ws (Mar 13, 2011)

Hannah, your right I might have rushed to judge this. That having been said, I did not attend the meeting as I was not aware of it. As far as blatantly posting, i did not think that i was doing any such thing, i was merely giving my opinion. As far as growing up fishing below the "fareway" dam goes, I fished it a heck of a lot longer than fareway has been there. I have seen it go from what it once was to what it is now. The fishing has decline with every "improvement" I will give it this, I will do more research into the subject. I do want better fishing for everyone, I just think that other things can be done to achieve this.


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## mr. compassionate (Jan 13, 2006)

Boilerblues said:


> The greater Dayton, Ohio area has one whitewater feature built (in Springfield), and there are 4 more proposed. Wouldn't recommend Dayton as a whitewater destination (do they make bullet proof dry tops?), but it's great for the locals


Quit rippin' on my hometown....bullet proof? Dayton isn't quite Detroit or DC.


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## hannah (Nov 30, 2009)

Fisherman, not trying to nasty about it, but its pretty disgusting to see someone post such opposition for a great project that a lot of people have put countless hours of their free time in getting it this far. 
Perhaps the improvements were not right for the area, but this ww park could be the solution. 
I would rather have a ww park that would benefit the interests of all Manchester's residents and visitors, rather than just one small group of fisherman. Wouldn't you want everyone to be able to enjoy the area instead of just a handful of people?
Ever do any trout fishing, there are lots of good areas for that too.
How close are you to the "my backyard "fareway" fishing spot?
why don't you become a part of the solution, ask about how to join the good to great river committee and help get an awesome ww park built for our town!


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## montuckyhuck (Mar 14, 2010)

Classic example of being gunho about somthing you know nothing about.
"Well I ain't done no research or gotten involved in no way but I tell you what boi, I don't like it one bit nosirry bob."


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## JohnR (May 23, 2005)

I'm with Dave on this. I've done some volunteer river restoration work with Trout Unlimited and many of the conservation measures for streams look and work exactly like water park structures. Weirs create pooling, pooling captures cool water, fish like that, happy fish breed. Doesn't have to be zero sum, in fact can be solid wins for pretty much everyone.


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## weekendfisherman.ws (Mar 13, 2011)

JohnR, this is not a trout stream we are talking about, we have plenty of those.


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## weekendfisherman.ws (Mar 13, 2011)

hannah said:


> Fisherman, not trying to nasty about it, but its pretty disgusting to see someone post such opposition for a great project that a lot of people have put countless hours of their free time in getting it this far.
> Perhaps the improvements were not right for the area, but this ww park could be the solution.
> I would rather have a ww park that would benefit the interests of all Manchester's residents and visitors, rather than just one small group of fisherman. Wouldn't you want everyone to be able to enjoy the area instead of just a handful of people?
> Ever do any trout fishing, there are lots of good areas for that too.
> ...


 Hannah,
I am on the north end of town IN the city limits. I was born and raised here So like i said I have seen the river for what it once was and what it is now. I can't say for sure but i would venture to guess that there are FAR more fisherman here in town than people that raft/kayak float ect. I am not trying to be nasty at all either. Ya know I think I will take your advice on this, and get involved in it. I will find out where the money is coming from to build all of this. I am pretty sure sure that all the money will not come from a grant. So i would like to know how the money is to be raised. See I was around in the 80's when the flood gate broke and it drained the river to nothing more than a creek. SO TO OTHERS that are not familiar with the area, before you pass judgment on me for my views on the matter, please note, taking the dam out will not help the amount of water coming from up river.


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## hannah (Nov 30, 2009)

You still don't have all the facts. I'm not talking about only benefiting kayaks, rafters. There are more people that will utilize the park from the shore than there will be people actually in the water. These people are more than fishermen.
No, the grants will not cover all of it, the city and the county need to help out too.
But then again you are likely for the Delhi dam and that's another huge sore subject. And there's the other subject of the people who will do anything to save on their taxes, even if it means depriving their town of needed growth, an opportunity to provide new recreational activities or new businesses and restaurants. You have to give a little to get a little.
I'm surprised you haven't heard anything about this, and that you found it in the buzz. The ww park project has been going for over a year now. Do you know who to ask to get involved in helping? 
I too was born and raised in Manchester. I want to see Manchester make something of its self. Why not this awesome park?! I perhaps have not been around as long, but maybe some more older residents could be open to new ideas.
You may have known the river back in the day, but do you know what the natural river was really like? If you want to see the river in its natural state, then all those dams should have never been built. They don't belong at all if we want a natural river. Dams are not good for a river, they restrict the fish movement. 
As for flooding, with the current design it would reduce flooding in downtown by 4ft. Ask Mr. Russell at Stephen motors if that would help. The water was 4ft deep in the shop and showroom. Any flood reduction would help out the businesses, right.


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## weekendfisherman.ws (Mar 13, 2011)

hannah said:


> You still don't have all the facts. I'm not talking about only benefiting kayaks, rafters. There are more people that will utilize the park from the shore than there will be people actually in the water. These people are more than fishermen.
> No, the grants will not cover all of it, the city and the county need to help out too.
> But then again you are likely for the Delhi dam and that's another huge sore subject. And there's the other subject of the people who will do anything to save on their taxes, even if it means depriving their town of needed growth, an opportunity to provide new recreational activities or new businesses and restaurants. You have to give a little to get a little.
> I'm surprised you haven't heard anything about this, and that you found it in the buzz. The ww park project has been going for over a year now. Do you know who to ask to get involved in helping?
> ...


See Hannah, that is where you are wrong, I am not for the Delhi Dam, even though that is a sore subject for me also as my wife lost her job working at the hartwick marina to due the loss of the lake. While i will agree with you that the dams should have never been built, BUT they were built for a reason at the time. The Quaker Mill dam was put there for the mill. and the Dam in downtown Manchester was there for electric power. and they have been there for years upon years, so how about we don't totally screw up the whole thing by taking it out. This has pretty well made my mind up for me, i will be starting a petition to block the WW park from happening.


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## hannah (Nov 30, 2009)

Yea...that's the Iowa way...take a little criticism and if you don't like what you end up with, then screw everyone else. That's the way to go. Oh, while you're at it why don't you try to stop the ww park being built in Charles city too. I'm sure that will solve everything.


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## weekendfisherman.ws (Mar 13, 2011)

See, the problem with this is the fact that this is MY home town, this is where i raise my kids. My family has years upon years of roots in this town/area. I don't care what other cities do that is their business. I will worry about my own town. As far as taking criticisms from you, i don't look at it that way, I have looked at it from the perspective of your for it and I am against it. Have a great rest of the weekend, I have work today get started at tomorrow.


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## ngeoym (Jun 13, 2007)

try an articulate way of expressing why you are against it instead of just "I'm against it."


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## montuckyhuck (Mar 14, 2010)

Wow, I have heard the argument against a WW park being placed on an undamned streatch of water but never someone arguing against a project on a damaged damned waterway. This project would likely INCREASE fish habitat and enjoyment for ALL locals. Fisherpersons and WW crowd alike. "I just don't like the sounds a that". Sounds like pure ignorance and fear of change. Look into the pros and cons before you start to thwart concerned peoples efforts who have put the time into research and planning. This is FOR your community. Go shit in your hand!


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## dograft83 (Jun 16, 2008)

As a walleye and small mouth fisherman I would love a ww park. Also I would be so pumped for my kids to have an amazing and safe place to play at in get in the outdoors. Fisherman.ws you really need to look at the big picture and see what is best for everyone and not have a closed mind. You should get involved in what is going on and learn a few things and not come off sounding like a total douchebag.


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## weekendfisherman.ws (Mar 13, 2011)

Awesome group of people here, one tells someone to shit in their hand and another calls me a douche bag. /I applaud you both, yes, that was sarcasm.


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## GoodTimes (Mar 9, 2006)

They're talking about the midwest here....fishing has much deeper roots than ww boating. This is the man's hometown. Many people on this forum understand that ww parks can improve fish habitats and (to a varying degree) recreation and tourism....we've experienced it through years of implementation and research in the west. Can't blame a good ole' boy that doesn't give two shits about kayakers raising an eyebrow to a ww park in his fishin' hole.

The man said he's going to get involved, research, and learn about the impacts of RICD's (recreational in-channel diversions). 

I think ya'll could find some common ground.


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## dograft83 (Jun 16, 2008)

Hey that was just my opinion of closed mined people (you) why dont you try to learn something before you go flaping your gums about something you have no clue about and could ruin something so great for your town and your kid. I wish I had a dada that would want to take away a great safe outdoor feature for me and the town I get to grow up in. Yes that was sarcasm. A real good dad would want something safe and fun for everyone so there kids dont turn out to be low life crack heads and 25 cent hookers. Just open your eyes and mind db


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## dograft83 (Jun 16, 2008)

Goodtimes you are right he did say he was going to check it out and see whats up then he got his feelings hurt and did a 180 and closed his mind off.
weekendfisherman.ws sorry my word have been a bit hard but you really need to get an open mind and check things out and get facts before you start something you have really have no idea about. So I am sorry for the harsh words but just look into stuff before you close your mind off to changes that could be great


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## weekendfisherman.ws (Mar 13, 2011)

See here is the thing, I have an honest question for you that know more about it than I do. if there isn't much water and we do not live in a mountainous area, where do we get enough water to do this? As it is right now, the river is a about 80% mud bottom, and like I had said earlier when the flood gate on the dam broke in the 80's the river above the dam was no more than 1 ft deep and about 15 feet wide. How can this be enough water?


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## dograft83 (Jun 16, 2008)

Ok I do see where you are comeing from on this and I have no idea. But I am sure someone here knows or this would be a great question for a meeting. Again please keep your mind open and learn somethings before rejecting this. How is fishing good in 1ft of water right now anyways or is this another part of the river you are talking about?


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## weekendfisherman.ws (Mar 13, 2011)

No, they repaired the flood gate about a year later after it happened. What they are proposing is to blast the dam out in order to do this from what I understand. All I am saying is that of they do this, there is not enough water to make this feasible in my opinion. I guess I am not trying to be closed minded, just looking at the big picture and the feasibility of it.


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## dograft83 (Jun 16, 2008)

Oh I see. My guess is they would need to fix the banks and make it channel in to where they will add some grade and put the waves for a the kayakers/tubers to have fun in. my guess is they would do this every 50 yrds or so? I know there are some great people on here that would have a much better idea on this. Or I bet there is a plan that the town already has plan for this and you could ask/email someone and they will fill you in. These parks are not cheap so I am sure they have put thought into this and have a good plan for it


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## weekendfisherman.ws (Mar 13, 2011)

Ok, i see where what you are saying. about pulling the banks in and such, please bear in mind that I am not trying to argue with you, I am just trying to point out some facts here. About 4 years ago, they spent 1000's of dollars lining the north bank through town with rock about the size of 1ft x 1ft and up above the dam to keep it from washing away during times of flooding. Also pouring concrete on the rocks below the dam to keep them from washing away and undercutting the new side walk they poured. I guess I am wondering why they did ALL of this work and spent ALL of this money just to do this?


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## dograft83 (Jun 16, 2008)

No questions are good that is how people learn things. I guess I jumped the gun thinking that you did not want to learn how this could be a good thing or turn out to be another waste of money. In one post I thought someone said this was a dead dam or one that was not doing so good? If this is the case it would cost a lot more money to bring it up to date and a ww park would be something good for the river and for the people in the area. Second thing is did the rock and concrete work?


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## weekendfisherman.ws (Mar 13, 2011)

it worked below the dam to keep it from washing out from high water, but above the dam, no, when we get high water, enough to flood, the rock keeps the bank intact but does not hold the water. I should point out that as the river is right now, it is about 50 -60 feet wide. BUT like i said during the time that the flood gate was damaged and above the dam was drained, it was about 15ft wide and 1ft deep. Incidentally this is also about 15-20 miles UP river from where last year a earthen dike along side of a different dam was washed out totally draining the lake above it. and in doing so also lowered the level of the river clear up to where the proposed site is now. Here is a link of wher the dam was breached last summer, like I said 15-20 miles down river from where we are talking about. I am agree with an earlier post about not repairing that one. because it was privately owned. 
delhi dam - Google Search


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## dograft83 (Jun 16, 2008)

Phorum :: Rapids Riders Forum :: Re: 24/7 yes, 365 no.
Check this link out. it gives some info on how it would work and when it would work. Does not sound like a year round ww park but during the summer months it sounds like there has been enough water in the river for a fun time. I really dont know the area you are talking about but I am reading up on it so maybe I can give you the best understand that I can if no one else will


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## dograft83 (Jun 16, 2008)

here is a link on what it way look like if it works out to give you an idea. ask questions if you need help understanding something
:: View topic - Potential Manchester Whitewater Park


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## weekendfisherman.ws (Mar 13, 2011)

Thanks, yea i read through it and it looks to be like enough water, but i am wondering if there is a difference with the dam in place or not?


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## dograft83 (Jun 16, 2008)

That is a good question and I hope someone know but go to a meeting find out and let us know what you find out


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## okieboater (Oct 19, 2004)

weekendfisherman.ws

Sir, you find a white water boating message board, join up and start posting that you are going to do every thing you can to stop a proposed white water park because you are a fisherman and do not think boaters can share the water with you.

What did you expect? 

Then you keep feeding the fire with more posts.

My opinion, you came to the message board looking to create a issue and you got it.


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## Boilerblues (Jun 15, 2007)

weekendfisherman.ws

Unfortunately when people have different views on a matter people can get rather passionate. Don't let some people turn you off with their strong response to your view, as you shared your view with us.

We all love the river, and we want to see it healthy. Whitewater boaters want to see the river healthy as you do. American Whitewater is one of the primary organizations that whitewater boaters are involved with, and the health of fish and river life is one of their primary goals. The relationship between boathers and fishermen has been a rocky one, but we are all seeking the same goal.

I'm in Dayton, OH and we recently had an example of the same battle here. There was a lowhead dam that had created a pond, and those who enjoy fishing were upset about it's removal. Unfortunately the primary advocate for removal of the dam lost his life in the dam, as well as his wife. The dam was removed, and since that time the health and variety of fish at this location has exploded. You can read a news article here: River life thriving after removal of low Englewood Dam There was no whitewater park with this project, it was just performed to remove a dangerous dam and restore health to the river.

What you see as far as the silt and mud when the lake went down is part of the damage that dams cause. Because there's no flow to keep that moving, it just settles in to create muck. In the long run that damages the fish, creating an environment that is only friendly to certain types of fish. With a project to remove a dam they will remediate that, and it will be established as a healthy stream. It may be more seasonal in it's flow, but the fish will be healthier.

We all really are on the same side, it just takes time to understand each other's viewpoint and that maybe something other than what we have always known can be better.


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## weekendfisherman.ws (Mar 13, 2011)

To All, I may have been a bit rash and I will admit that and yes there were some that were a bit harsh to me,as was I to you. i do not hold any grudges or ill will. I will do some more digging into what it proposed. Thank you all for your time and understanding. I just want what is best for all involved.


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## iapowderhawk (May 21, 2011)

I grew up and still farm 10 miles south of Charles City and now live an hour away from both CC and Mancherster. The Charles City WW park is already being used by fisherman everytime I am in town. Manchester residents wouldn't believe the number of spectators on the banks both times we have done testing. What else is going to draw people into Manchester? I would love to have a five to six feature run! FYI CCWWP grand opening July 29 2011!


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## LeftTurnOnly (Jun 9, 2011)

Yea... I live along what is/was Lake Delhi down stream from Manchester, and to answer the OP's original question.... Heck yea!  I think it would be great if Manchester had a WW park... I would definitely go! Economic development is a good thing... Two thumbs up!


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