# SLEEPING PADS ?



## paulster

It seems like Paco pads have been the standard for many years. Mine has served me well for something like 15 years and those are all I've seen on commercial rigs (although I have not looked all that carefully. But a stack of 2 paco pads stands out a bit.)


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## kayakfreakus

Silver back is the bomb, looking to replace mine with the same again.


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## walterwhite

It's only 90 more then the Ultra Landing Pad. I don't mind shelling out the extra cash if it will be worth it. Looks like I'll order it through the Link I posted above. $290.00 with free shipping seems like a pretty good deal..


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## bcpnick

I bought one of the Aire pads and I wasn't happy with it at all. The foam inside was way too light so it was not much better than sleeping on the ground. I ended up getting a Super Paco from Jack's and it's awesome. Some of Jack's pads have light foam and some have more dense, supportive foam (like the Super Paco). Keep that in mind. I think the 4" thick ones have the light foam, but I'm not positive.


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## okieboater

If you got the space, Jacks Plastic Silverback is the only way to go if you want a foam pad that will last decades if not more. Since they last for decades, the Silverback type will be the cheapest long range over the copies.

Jack uses USA foam and it will last but costs quite a bit more than the foam made in China.
The others making look alike paco type pads (the last time I checked) used the el cheapo Chinese stuff and you are lucky to get a couple years out of them before they collapse. I know this for real as I got burned on a look alike Jack's copy.

If you want a comfy pad the next best pad is a Thermarest foam type. They have a new 4 inch thick foam pad that is the bomb but bulky. I have one and it is super comfy. I also have one of their 3 inch foam pads that is many years old and still is working. That pad will roll down for back packing but is still very comfy. 

Over the years I have searched for the ideal pad. Jack's Paco is the ultimate pad - but kinda bulky. Thermarest foamies come in a close second. 

I use both brands and am happy with them, just depends on the trip as to which one I take.


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## walterwhite

Thanks for all the feedback. The Paco pads seem super durable, especially when your tugging it around in the car and raft. The only down fall is its close to $300.00. On the other hand I have access to deals on Thermarest Pads, getting it for nearly half the cost of the Silver Back... I'm not sure how long the Thermarest would last...


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## bcpnick

I've used various Thermarest mattresses for years for all of my non-rafting camping. If you don't need the the water proof material and general bomb-proof nature of a Paco Pad, then the Thermarest Luxury Map is a better pad, IMO. It doesn't pack small like other Thermarests so on the river I still prefer the Paco, but it's superior in comfort. When I am loading up for a car camping trip without space constraints, I always take the Luxury Map over my Super Paco.


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## bigben

x2 for Jacks Silverback. 
I went thru the same dilemma a few years back before buying my silverback. But it certainly is nice. 
I don't have a real mattress. My silverback has been a part of my permanent bed-roll since I got it. 
Super comfy, and definitely worth every penny!


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## eddie

Something else to consider... I've had my paco pad for probably 20 years and had countless good night's sleep on it on rivers around the world. I've recently gotten back in to backpacking though and also bought a packraft. For this I bought a Big Agnes Q Core sleeping pad and it's the most comfortable pad I've ever slept on outdoors, way more comfy than my paco. I'll still bring the paco on traditional river trips but the big agnes will be blown up in my tent.


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## InflatableSteve

I have a 3 inch JPW Paco. Comfy and bomb proof. I have been sleeping on it more and more since it is more comfortable than my bed.


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## aman

Jacks plastic is the only paco worth spending money on. The dense foam is awesome and I'm a side sleeper. The backpacking pads have come a long way and are comfy but nothing compares to a silverback in my opinion. With expensive gear purchases I always break it down to how long will it last me. By the time your jacks needs to be replaced the nights spent sleeping on it will break down to chump change. 


Feelings are just visitors. Let them come and go.


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## Patrick Lynch

Maravia Maxi pad is what we just bought......had Super Pacos for years, and now they will be for our daughters. The Maxi Pads are 3" of dense foam with a leafield valve just like on the Silverbacks. I'm surprised on how much more comfortable our new pads are than our old, trusty Paco Pads. Can't say enough for Jack's Plastic Welding....they sent us corner wear pads at no charge. Our Pacos finally wore through at this wear point. 

We got the Maxi Pads because they roll up smaller. But I think my butt will be planted on one instead of the Paco. Anyways, top quality from Maravia, and on sale for about 165 each.


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## cataraftgirl

I hate Paco pads or any of the other derivatices. Heavy, hot, and hard to roll up. I know many river folk who swear by them, and use them to pad dry boxes, coolers, and as camp eddy floaties. I tried very hard to love them, but just couldn't. I have found a roll-a-cot with a thermarest on top to be the most comfy sleep system. Now that I'm doing more touring kayak trips with more minimalist gear, I have finally found a pad that is comfy for me on the ground.....an Exped Synmat 7. Packs down to the size of a nerf football and very comfy. Easy to inflate with the built in hand pump or even easier with the Schnozzle bag.


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## jimr

Paco pad and a rollacot = the best. Also functions as a couch. Open bivy. Bivy sack is nice if your in mts and temps drop at night. Also the Big Agnes air pads are awesome as well as mentioned above. If u don't have a rollacot your doing it wrong 


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## friscofreeskier

*Landing pad*

I just bought a 3" Aire Landing pad this weekend from CKS after using friends paco's for years. Slept great all weekend in the back of my truck, highly recommended especially for the price, I paid $150 with tax.

Darrell


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## T.O.Mac

in my limited experience (around 50 nights on the AIRE, and 40 or so on the JPW), I found that I preferred the JPW...(though I own the AIRE, bought it on sale and thought it would be just as good)

JPW has better foam, and you can pick what foam you want, with the AIRE you get better (more watertight and easier to dump when rolling) valves...

either way beats the crap out of sleeping on the dirt


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## Nessy

Second those who favor Thermarest over Paco pads for quality sleep . Just keep in mind that, although the Thermarest is more comfortable, they are generally not as tough as the Paco. If you need something that does it all for many multi-day river trips then go with a Paco. If you want comfort for better sleep then go with the Thermarest which is engineered specifically for sleeping. 


Do unto those downstream as you would have those upstream do unto you.


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## jonstavney

I went budget and bought NRS pads with leafield boat valves. Great sleeping, but don't roll as tightly as Jacks. Especially the thicker 3". If you purchase NRS, which are less than half Jacks, get 2" pads which roll to 14" or so with practice.


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## MR. ED

Hey Patrick, Curious where you got your Maxi for $165? Thanks.


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## Conundrum

I'm a fan of the Maravia Silverback pads. I've got 100s of nights on them and they work great and are about $270. 4" foam. They roll pretty tight and the foam still maintains it's shape if you don't store them rolled tight. You can roll them pretty small for what they are too. The trick is to let them inflate all the way and then lay on them and let air out to your comfort level and then close the valve. I find them much more comfortable than my X-therm and if it's really hot, put a sheet between you and the pad.

I have a bunch of friends that like the JPW pads too but I live in the same town as Maravia so go with those.


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## Jim S

If I'm looking for a quick sleep set-up I'll pull my Paco off my raft and throw it down anywhere. It works great for that. However, as mentioned by a few above, I sleep best on a roll-a-cot with a Thermarest. The Paco is great for on-raft use or for floating on down the river.


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## elkhaven

Not to hijack this thread but I'll use this opportunity to insert my annual plea to manufacturers to revisit a great idea that had the missfortune of being tied to a failed buisness venture:









They were made by Pacific Outdoor Equipment and were called the Cadilac Bomber Pad. 2 of them side by side, fit perfect in a queen fitted sheet. They're like 7 lbs, roll up to about 8 inches and truly self inflate. They are heaven on the river, but alas no longer available.

I bring them up regularly on similar threads as they were the best of both worlds, a durable (420 denier pvc fabric) glued to the foam with air pockets between for inflation. 

If Pacific Outdoor equipment could come up with a mechanism that made this work, why can't Jack or Aire, or Maravia or NRS? The advantage is you can put pressure in the pad, so you're not just sleeping on foam. You are sleeping on foam and air pressure. Plus they are durable, we've had a pair for 12 years now and only one has a patch. 

Make it just like a Paco, but attach the outer fabric to the inner foam, or make an inner air chamber, welded I beam with a PVC pocket - like a floor pocket in an Aire - come on Aire, it's right up your alley!!!

Come on guys, follow the lead - someone please! I'll field test them!

Needless to say that's what I use and they kick ass, but no point in suggesting them now because you can't get them any more :-x.

The next best thing is a cot and thermarest and the best thing overall is a cot and the Bomber pad. Paco's don't compare. I have a guide paco and a silverback and I always grab a bomber and leave the wife and kids to fight over the second one, the loosers get the paco's. No offense to Jack, I think they revolutionized river slumber but there is a better way - I've seen it.


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## walterwhite

Thanks for the responses. I like the added durability of the Paco pad, however I'm really looking for a comfy pad for car camping and on the river. If a thermarest or Exped pad is more comfortable and half the price, I might go that route.


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## protechie

I have a paco pad silverback and a big Agnes q-core. I love the big Agnes, it's extremely comfortable. I blow it up all the way, then lay on it and let out a little air so it's not too stiff. It's awesome and not crazy expensive. 
I'm kind of torn on the comfort of the silverback. 9 nights out of 10 it's really comfortable and I love it. We have two of them and we set them side by side and make up a bed with sheets and blankets. Just as cozy as home. But then there's that 1 night sometimes that it isn't comfortable- it feels hard and hurts my hips (side sleeper), which makes it hard to sleep. Even though I've had it for a while, those occasional nights make it so that I'm still undecided on just how comfortable it is. 
But for the most part I really like the silverback. The durability can't be beat and it's fantastic as a pad for passengers on the boat. I also like that I can flop it down anywhere. I use it all the time camping and at home to lay in the sun, take a nap outside, whatever. Other pads like the big Agnes or thermarest can't really do that, I'd be too worried about poking holes in them. The doggies like the paco pad too.


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## cataraftgirl

A quick check on pricing....
Pacos run $200 for a Large, $250 for a Super, $290 for an El Grande
NRS - $150-$220 depending on the size
Maravia Silverback - $260

Exped Synmat 7 (R value 4.9) runs $140-$150 depending on size at REI
Exped Synmat 9 (R value 6) $170

After finding the sleeping nirvana of a roll-a-cot plus pad, I was very worried about how I would fair on the ground as I transitioned to kayak touring. Even in my younger days, I had a hard time with thermarests on the ground. I'm a late 50s gal with a questionable back and a replacement knee, so I was super happy to find the Exped pad. Definitely the best ground sleeping pad I've ever tried. The compact size has been a nice bonus when packing my touring kayak for multi-day trips where space/weight are at a premium. For rafting trips, I still use the Exped, but find it most comfy at about 2/3 inflated.

Gotta agree with protechie on the durability factor for a paco type pad. You do have to use more care with an Exped. Not going to use one as an eddy pool floatie. But comfort wins over utility for me.


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## walterwhite

I get deals on Exped through work and I have been looking at the Megamat 10. They seem to be getting a lot of great reviews.

MegaMat 10 LXW | Exped USA


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## elkhaven

Do toy have a front bench or seat? If bench, I'd get one paco for a pad. If not, then is stick with your thoughts above. 

Sent from my SM-G930V using Mountain Buzz mobile app


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## kengore

Another vote for the Big Agnes Q-core. We just returned from a 5 night trip sleeping on the new pads. Best pad I have ever used. Great sleep in weather that varied from below freezing to the mid 80's. Warm, comfortable and light enough to back pack.


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## walterwhite

I've heard great things about the BA Q core, however I've heard even better things about the Exped Megamat 10. For less then half the cost of a paco, it seems like a no brainer. I don't have a beach seat.


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## Soup76

Been using a Big Agnes Q-core insulated pad for a few years. Really like it and a huge upgrade from a thermarest. I also bought the sleeping bag that the pad slides into this year. Nirvana.


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## walterwhite

Bought the Silverback. I'll post again once i try it out.


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## walterwhite

Silverback came in Today. Fairly comfortable and appears super durable. I would say that the Exped 10 pad is more comfortable, but the paco pad should last for years.. Anyone know where I could get a custom cover for my paco pad?


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## kayakfreakus

walterwhite said:


> Silverback came in Today. Fairly comfortable and appears super durable. I would say that the Exped 10 pad is more comfortable, but the paco pad should last for years.. Anyone know where I could get a custom cover for my paco pad?


I went through two "custom" form fitting sheets as a buddies wife sews. Total hassle, best solution I have had and use is a twin bed bottom sheet with the elastic. Fits well and you can buy star wars or the theme of your choice.


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## mkashzg

kayakfreakus said:


> I went through two "custom" form fitting sheets as a buddies wife sews. Total hassle, best solution I have had and use is a twin bed bottom sheet with the elastic. Fits well and you can buy star wars or the theme of your choice.


Second that but I prefer to use a flannel sheet as I think they feel more comfortable and mine has little planes, trains and cars.


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## Cascade River Gear

walterwhite said:


> Silverback came in Today. Fairly comfortable and appears super durable. I would say that the Exped 10 pad is more comfortable, but the paco pad should last for years.. Anyone know where I could get a custom cover for my paco pad?


Hi Walterwhite, 

I hope you have had a stellar season so far! We have therm-a-rest sheets that fit the Silverbacks perfectly they are all I use for mine. Here is the link to the ones we have on sale Large Universal Sheet | Cascade River Gear and we have a new version available as well called the Synergy Sheet which is a little different fabric with the same fit. Super comfortable, hooks around the corners and I have even hooked it around the top of my cot when I was sleeping at a small angle to keep the pad from sliding. I take a few with me on extended trips so I always have clean sheets. Give us a call if you are interested in the new version and we can get you taken care of. 

Kindly, 
Renee


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## shappattack

Cascade River Gear said:


> Hi Walterwhite,
> 
> I hope you have had a stellar season so far! We have therm-a-rest sheets that fit the Silverbacks perfectly they are all I use for mine. Here is the link to the ones we have on sale Large Universal Sheet | Cascade River Gear and we have a new version available as well called the Synergy Sheet which is a little different fabric with the same fit. Super comfortable, hooks around the corners and I have even hooked it around the top of my cot when I was sleeping at a small angle to keep the pad from sliding. I take a few with me on extended trips so I always have clean sheets. Give us a call if you are interested in the new version and we can get you taken care of.
> 
> Kindly,
> Renee


We were commenting on the Salmon River last week that we can't believe no one makes a pillow case or sheet for all the rafting pads made of PVC. The thermarest sheet looks nice. There is a comment on the Cascade site that it fits the Aire Landing Pad, can you confirm this?


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## Cascade River Gear

shappattack said:


> We were commenting on the Salmon River last week that we can't believe no one makes a pillow case or sheet for all the rafting pads made of PVC. The thermarest sheet looks nice. There is a comment on the Cascade site that it fits the Aire Landing Pad, can you confirm this?


Hi shappattack, 

They sure do! And they are super soft, it's all I use. Let me know if I can help with anything else. 

Renee


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## jimr

My buddy has a fleece pouch his paco slides into no clue who makes it but it's awesome 


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## shappattack

Cascade River Gear said:


> Hi shappattack,
> 
> They sure do! And they are super soft, it's all I use. Let me know if I can help with anything else.
> 
> Renee


I am calling some major bull shit bait and switch here. I tried to order 2 of the sheets you posted a link to on your website. Well it wouldn't let me order them so I called on the phone to see what the story was. Well you only have 1 in stock of that style and not only that it was a return. But you will happily sell me the new model that is nearly twice as expensive. That is some bullshit advertising.


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## Cascade River Gear

shappattack said:


> I am calling some major bull shit bait and switch here. I tried to order 2 of the sheets you posted a link to on your website. Well it wouldn't let me order them so I called on the phone to see what the story was. Well you only have 1 in stock of that style and not only that it was a return. But you will happily sell me the new model that is nearly twice as expensive. That is some bullshit advertising.


Well that was completely my bad shappattack, I should have looked at what we had in inventory before trying to be helpful! You were speaking with one of our summer team and I have talked with her about how the phone call was handled. If you EVER have a problem and are upset instead of hanging up on the team please ask for me and I will do what I can to make it right. There was no bait and switch happening over here and it was not, nor would it ever be, the way that we do business. So my sincerest apologies for my human error and I am sorry to have misled anyone in the thread. With all that being said, the sheets are still worth every penny but I understand wanting a great deal on the older style. Let me know if I can do anything else for you to put your mind at ease and turn that frown upside down! 

Kindly,
Renee


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## shappattack

What are you talking about? I called to order 2 of the sheets you posted a link to because your website wouldn't let me order them. The person on the phone said you only had one in stock and that it was a return, but that I could order the newer model for more money. I told the story of how someone from Cascade was advertising the model I was interested in on Mt. Buzz and that was some poor advertising practice when you don't really have any for sale. I said I wasn't interested in the newer model. Since the conversation was done from my standpoint and the other person wasn't talking, I hung up the phone. If you characterize that as hanging up on someone then so be it. The conversation was completed at that point. 


Of course I wanted the deal, you f-ing advertised it with the link, and you don't actually have any. Then you trie to up sell me. What am I supposed to think, that wouldn't piss you off?


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## Cascade River Gear

shappattack said:


> What are you talking about? I called to order 2 of the sheets you posted a link to because your website wouldn't let me order them. The person on the phone said you only had one in stock and that it was a return, but that I could order the newer model for more money. I told the story of how someone from Cascade was advertising the model I was interested in on Mt. Buzz and that was some poor advertising practice when you don't really have any for sale. I said I wasn't interested in the newer model. Since the conversation was done from my standpoint and the other person wasn't talking, I hung up the phone. If you characterize that as hanging up on someone then so be it. The conversation was completed at that point.
> 
> 
> Of course I wanted the deal, you f-ing advertised it with the link, and you don't actually have any. Then you trie to up sell me. What am I supposed to think, that wouldn't piss you off?


Again my sincerest apologies, human error happens and I own this one. I am sorry that I upset you. Kindly, Renee


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## Sherpa9543

I'm not sure what the administrative policies on this site are, but cascade river gear is always chiming in on every other thread trying to hustle their business. Isn't there a side for vendors, or the "partners forum" that would be more appropriate for cascade to use?


Sent from my iPhone using Mountain Buzz


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## shappattack

Cascade River Gear said:


> Again my sincerest apologies, human error happens and I own this one. I am sorry that I upset you. Kindly, Renee


The Scenario: someone advertises they have a product, you then ask a very specific question about it and get a positive response, then immediately call to order that product. You call to order the product and the vendor responds we don't really have that product, but we have something similar that costs more. 

Furthermore, the vendor then insinuates that the customer dealt with their employee poorly and hung up on them. 

I don't need an apology, you are just a sales person chiming in with "helpful information" trying to make a buck anyway possilbe, but I would like you to answer this question:

If you were in my shoes and had the above scenario play out with any product you were very interested in, would that piss you off or not?


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## lhowemt

Holy hell shapp, lighten up. Do you not realize Renee is a person too, trying to help out fellow boaters? She was telling you about a freaking SHEET that you were not aware of. She was not upselling you to a yeti cooler or something. Good grief, go boating, workout, or something to get the sheet out of your arse.

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## okieboater

Interesting thread.

I planned to order one of the sheets from Cascade.

Now that the real deal is exposed, I will just pick up an appropriate size sheet from Bed Bath and Beyond a big box pretty cheap price store.


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## lhowemt

Personally I take a sheet, sew a top and two sides to make a tube. I leave the bottom open and it works great. My favorite fabric is a stretchy micro fleece because I don't feel the sand as much as with a pima cotton. Flannel would do the same, but I think be warmer. Surprisingly the micro fleece is not too hot.

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## Cascade River Gear

MR. ED said:


> Hey Patrick, Curious where you got your Maxi for $165? Thanks.


Hi MR ED, we may have them on sale again this Fall, we are putting together our Fall Sale Catalog now but I cannot promise anything yet. If you aren't on our mailing list yet let me know and I will add you to it so you will know what the skinny is and also maybe PM me your contact info so you are on our email list, we won't hammer you with a ton of emails however you will get the first alert. ~ Renee


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## Cascade River Gear

Cascade River Gear said:


> Hi MR ED, we may have them on sale again this Fall, we are putting together our Fall Sale Catalog now but I cannot promise anything yet. If you aren't on our mailing list yet let me know and I will add you to it so you will know what the skinny is and also maybe PM me your contact info so you are on our email list, we won't hammer you with a ton of emails however you will get the first alert. ~ Renee


That would have been so helpful when I had the most AMAZING and loving dog sleep with me every night on the Middle Fork, I wouldn't have traded it for anything however I sure slept with a whole heap of sand with him in my bed HAHA! Love that pup, he can sleep with me any night on the river.


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## Cascade River Gear

okieboater said:


> Interesting thread.
> 
> I planned to order one of the sheets from Cascade.
> 
> Now that the real deal is exposed, I will just pick up an appropriate size sheet from Bed Bath and Beyond a big box pretty cheap price store.


The real deal is I am a human and didn't check inventory before I posted and I won't make that mistake again good gawd. I always want my boating crew to be in whatever works the best for them! I will always share what I love with the amazing community we are apart of and we always love to discover new gear so if you find some amazing sheet for your pad please let me now, we love finding new cool gear and the only way to do that is through the amazing boating community we are a part of.


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## Cascade River Gear

Cascade River Gear said:


> That would have been so helpful when I had the most AMAZING and loving dog sleep with me every night on the Middle Fork, I wouldn't have traded it for anything however I sure slept with a whole heap of sand with him in my bed HAHA! Love that pup, he can sleep with me any night on the river.


This was supposed to be for you Laura Howe.... I need to know more about this for the next time Tonka sleeps with me every night on the river. Man alive I am missing that pup! Can't wait for another river trip with him and his owner Otsie!


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## Cronin Inflatables

Oh man i feel your pain Renee, this one time i sold a boat to a customer that was already sold due to a miss count. I was totally ready to eat dirt when i called but instead of being upset he turned out to be a descent human being and said "no problem, accidents happen".


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## okieboater

*here you go*



Cascade River Gear said:


> The real deal is I am a human and didn't check inventory before I posted and I won't make that mistake again good gawd. I always want my boating crew to be in whatever works the best for them! I will always share what I love with the amazing community we are apart of and we always love to discover new gear so if you find some amazing sheet for your pad please let me now, we love finding new cool gear and the only way to do that is through the amazing boating community we are a part of.


https://www.bedbathandbeyond.com/st...nt-pimacott-reg-sheet/232914?categoryId=12019


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## Cascade River Gear

okieboater said:


> https://www.bedbathandbeyond.com/st...nt-pimacott-reg-sheet/232914?categoryId=12019


Thank you okieboater. I think we will keep rolling with the therm-a-rest, they are awesome and no sewing is needed which I don't know how to do haha! Have a great rest of the season and keep it splashy! Renee


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## shappattack

lhowemt said:


> Holy hell shapp, lighten up. Do you not realize Renee is a person too, trying to help out fellow boaters


Yes Renee is a person that gets paid to sell stuff to fellow boaters, one way of which is to respond to threads on Mt buzz while probably getting paid on the clock which is called advertising, which also could be construed as helping. Just about every thread lately, where someone is looking for some kind of gear there is an advertising post from Cascade (which also could be construed as "helping") to recommend something they sell. No problem, just calling a spade a spade.

Helping would be an employee that works at cascade, reading some threads in the evening after work and on their own time recommending some gear that they may or may not actually sell at Cascade through a personal login avatar.


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## tew

Wow Shap- You really seem to be looking to waterboard people because they don't fit you properly into your view of things. You act like your typical internet troll who hides behind the keyboard with your tough talk on your view of the world. You really need to get out, because I am sure that you have never made a mistake, or god forbid tried to be helpful.


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## Patrick Lynch

I use a flannel bottom sheet with the elastic corners on our Maravia Maxi Pads. Disclaimer for Shap....we bought our Maxi Pads from Cascade River Gear! We got a trunk full of flannel sheets that had been used for massage tables when Coldwater Creek went out of business here in Sandpoint, Idaho. My trick on extended trips is to turn the sheet inside out after a few days so my grime factor is lessened. I do the same with my pillow case. Then I just use my sleeping bag as a comforter.

That being said, I concur that Shap needs to go for a mountain bike ride and chill. I know when I feel the asshole factor creeping into my behavior it's time to ride or get on the water. Life is too short to sweat the little stuff.


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## lhowemt

shappattack said:


> Yes Renee is a person that gets paid to sell stuff to fellow boaters, one way of which is to respond to threads on Mt buzz while probably getting paid on the clock which is called advertising, which also could be construed as helping. Just about every thread lately, where someone is looking for some kind of gear there is an advertising post from Cascade (which also could be construed as "helping") to recommend something they sell.


Aside from Renee being just another boater (and friend), CRG is a Buzz "partner", by paying for the privilege, so dirt bags like you and me can post here on this awesome free site. God forbid we hear about a specific product in a specific thread about gear that we are looking for..... 


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