# Better Boat?



## timberman

Jackson Fun is easy to roll and is a great playboat. I have a smaller friend and she loves her boat stable and a all round fun boat


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## Alpine Sports

The EZG series is a little wider, more stable than the EZ series which also make them a little less stellar in the play category and a little better as a river runner. You should also consider checking out the Prescription series from dagger. Its their version of the EZG series as a river running playboat goes but in my opinion (and from waht other have told me) is easier to roll and alot more playful than the EZG. You'd want to try the prescription in the 6.7 size. We've got the EZG and Prescriptions in our shop in Boulder, but you'd have to head down to Denver and check out the Jackson kayaks at Confluence.


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## Redpaddle

I would go for a Jackson Star. I found that for myself and everyone else that I have ever paddled with that they all wished they would have purchased a more aggressive first boat. I started with a Dagger Crossfire because it was next to free, but wish I would have put the money down for a playboat.

right now, there are apparently some issues with Wave Sport, their boats and their warranty. Check the previous posts. But the EZ is a good (but big) river/play boat, the EZG is a hybrid between an EZ and a ZG (which is a playboat). According to my friend the Vision has some real sharp rails and doesn't roll that easily. But he is from Latvia, so what does he know?

SO, my opinion is that a good playboat like the Jackson Star or a Dagger Kingpin or something like that is a perfect starting boat. Many disagree, and to each their own. Demo them if you can. That I think everyone can agree on.

PLUS women have better control over their bodies and learn faster than men so don't worry about getting a boat above your abilities. I guarantee you everyone has a boat that is above their ability. Except EJ.


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## acetomato

With good technique all of these will be easy to roll.
Definitely try out the Jackson Fun. They're great boats and they really stand behind the product. 
But demo as much as possible to get a feel for what fits you best.

You might want to include the LiquidLogic CR (I think the 125) in your list. I think it actually matches up better with the other boats you're looking at than the Vision, which is more of a playboat.


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## Boat-ERS

I LOVE LOVE LOVE MY FUN. I paddled a Inazone for 4 years, when my friend got a FUN last year as a beginner she loved it and let me try it one day. I am 5'7" and a little heavier then 140, my friend is a little shorter, but probably about the same weight as you. 

Yes to each their own, however...I would discourage a beginner from getting a true playboat. The Star and KingPin are too agressive a boat for a true beginner and unless you want to be primarily a play boater (only hangout in playparks) or you plan on catching every surf wave down the river (which I high doubt as a beginner boater), there is really no sense in getting one of those two boats. You will get discouraged easily in a true play boat. I have seen beginners get tossed around in a less stable boat and they have no confidence out there. 
But this is also advice from a solid boater who is playing mental games with her boating. So take it as you will. 

FUNs are super easy to roll (I just got my offside for the first time last week) and are fairly stable. I had a great time on Brown's last weekend and was still able to play a little on some easier waves. 

I think the fact that FUNs are popular right now too will help if you do decided that after a season it is not aggressive enough for you...someone will snatch it up! Same goes for the boats in the WS series (although I have never tried one)

And as acetomato said...demo demo demo, if you have that option. Alot of places will allow you to put the money that you spent to demo towards a new boat...or at least they use to. 

Redpaddle: big difference between a Crossfire and a Star, and really shouldn't be compared at all in the sense of beginner boats. I think there are better progression options out there.


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## projconn

How about a perception method?


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## COUNT

Method...hmmm.... Good boat. Runs rivers well. Slicey enough to throw ends. Easiest boat I've ever rolled. Should be able to get a good deal on it because it's older. But definitely try it out first as it has a very low cockpit that can be an uncomfortable fit for a lot of people.

I really like the EZ and EZG as beginner boats because they are stable, good river-runners, and play well too. The Jacksons are great boats but definitely lacking in primary stability=tippy. Awesom playboats, and good river runners but can be a little squirly for a beginner.

DEMO DEMO DEMO.

COUNT


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## Redpaddle

well of course there are differences between a crossfire and a star. about 4 feet and 20 gallons of difference. I never put a comparison between the two. I paddled the crossfire for probably 6 runs before giving it away for a gift. I paddled an innazone through most of my learning curve and once I sat in a playboat (a RAD 185) I knew what I had been missing all the time. 

And playboats arent just for playing. You can run up to class V in a playboat. And yeah, the learning curve is steep but it is well worth it. You will learn a lot of things much faster like edge control and keeping your body centered. You dont have to be a playboater to sit in a small boat.

But a good point about the Fun series. They wont stay unwanted for long. I have never sat in a method, but from my limited experience with them, they will be a solid downriver boat but a Fun would be a better option.

my opinion is that if you are going to stick with the sport and put some days on the water, go for an agressive boat. It will take you further faster. If you are going to paddle <10x a year, go for a river runner.


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## the_dude

i have an ezg 50. good downriver boat. surfs well. pretty stable after i moved the seat all the way forward to avoid getting stern squirted so much. pretty comfy, too. my guess is that at 5-7 and 140#, you'd fit into an ezg 42, which would be a bit more playful than the 50 at your size. i like it better than my friend's kingpin for the simple reason that it's more comfortable and is a bit easier to roll, presumably because of the shorter cockpit....pretty good surfer and spins and squirts easily too. i'm sure if i was a better playboater that i could do other stuff with it, but that's about all i get into these days.

of course with all of the bad press wave sport has been getting on the buzz recently, the jackson boats might be a better place to start. never paddled one of them. like others have said - demo whatever you are looking at before you buy it.


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## KSC

EZG is essentially a modern design of the EZ. Funny, I've paddled both boats, and contrary to the description given above, I find the EZ to be the more stable boat for river running and the EZG to be much better for playing than the EZ. Either way, if you're looking that direction, EZG is probably the better pick if money is not a concern, however, you could probably get an EZ much cheaper and it's a great boat.

The good news is, any of the options you listed will work great. The Fun & EZG seem to be the more popular, "tried and true" river running designs compared with the Vision. My personal pick would be the EZG.


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## Kimy

*Demo Demo Demo*

I thought I might like an Agent, I liked the project 52. I got in an Agent and a Liquid Logic Ronin (Sorry, can't remember the sizes, seemed appropirate for me) and I struggled. I felt I was in a crunch position ALL THE TIME or it was pearl city! 
I then jumped into an Jackson All Star and was much happier. OK, perhaps I am adding 2-4 gallons of volume among these boats and perhaps the seat positions in the Agent and Ronin were bad,....but DEMO DEMO DEMO!
If you feel like you are struggling, blame your equipment! Try something else. 

(My EZ, while I like it, feels like a big boat compared to these others. I like it, but it seems big.) 

KJ


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## climbhoser

I was a long time Big EZ paddler (I'm not small!). For what I did with it, it did the trick. I paddled it up to class IV on bigger Midwestern rivers with lots of play, and it was definitely stable and fun. I could also cartwheel that thing like slicing a hot knife through butter, and I don't EVER remember being squirted in it.

Then I got in spud boats and I realized what a playboat really is. The EZ will never catch air. It is a slicey, sometimes play mostly river running boat. While spuds are a tad less stable, if you take the time and get used to it they can do everything that a boat like the EZ can do.

I guess you could say I'm trying to steer you away from the EZ. It's a fine boat, but so, so limited. I also absolutely hate the outfitting...it makes me feel like I'm going to hyper-extend my knees all the time. The newer spuds are vastly more comfortable with the raised knee bumps allowing for more ergonomic positions.

Plus they're more fun.

Also take a look at the Pyranha S6f 192. I just bought the 193 and love it! I also like the 420 and the Project series.


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## projconn

climbhoser said:


> While spuds are a tad less stable, if you take the time and get used to it they can do everything that a boat like the EZ can do.
> 
> The newer spuds are vastly more comfortable with the raised knee bumps allowing for more ergonomic positions.
> 
> Plus they're more fun.
> 
> Also take a look at the Pyranha S6f 192. I just bought the 193 and love it! I also like the 420 and the Project series.


any other boats besides the Pyranha and the 420? Thanks!


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## climbhoser

Wavesport Project, Dagger Agent, Liquid Logic Ronin (Vision is also very good) are all good spuds that you can buy new. If you want used look for Dagger Kingpins, Liquid Logic Vision, LL Pop, LL Skip, LL Airhead, LL Space Cadet, LL Pocket Rocket, Dagger Juice (not bad, but not great), Pyranha s6 or s6x or s6f, Wavesport ZGs, and I dunno, just look around!


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## gh

i disagree with a playboat for your first boat. i think all of the boats you have mentioned in your category have good qualities. demo all the boats you can and get a feel for them. kinda tough when you first start out but its really down to personal taste with the boats you are looking at. at least sit in them and some boats will just feel right for your body type.


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## tea

I'm about your size and I have a Wavesport ACE 4.7 for sale for CHEAP. It's an excellent boat for learning all sorts of stuffs! Really. If you're interested, check out the boater swap, page 3 in the play boats category, or e-mail me @ [email protected]


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## projconn

tea said:


> I'm about your size and I have a Wavesport ACE 4.7 for sale for CHEAP. It's an excellent boat for learning all sorts of stuffs!


how is it for beginners? I really need something stable to build my confidence and rolling ability. I don't want to spend my first year on the water, upside down.


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## climbhoser

the Ace 4.7 is a fun boat for a beginner. I paddled one for a season. They aren't the easiest to roll because of the harsh edges (even harder than a modern spud, IMHO), but you can roll any boat up. If it's a touch more difficult to roll you will learn better technique and will learn to roll ANY boat up.

Also, the Ace is REALLY slicey, so it's a ton of fun for flatwater stuff like bow stalls, stern squirts/stalls and especially cartwheels. I have never had a boat cartwheel as easily and effortlessly as the Ace 4.7.

It would help to know that I weigh 220 and I weighed 205-210 when I was in the Ace. So, I was WAY heavy for it, but I still threw myself down some really big class IV in it once. I was in over my head at 1200 CFS with about 1/2 mile of IV, but I made it unscathed, and nary a stern squirt to speak of. I regularly paddled the Ace down class III runs and had a blast in it. The friend who loaned it to me was stern squirted off of every ripple in the river, and lord knows to this day why he was constantly vertical on the river when I almost never was, and I weighed more. 

If it's a good deal, then buy the boat.

I've been considering selling my Pyranha S6f 193, which might be a bit big for you, but throw me an offer and I'll consider it.


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