# Airbag Avy Pack?



## lmyers (Jun 10, 2008)

So, a friend posted a link to this CAIC accident report: CAIC: Colorado Avalanche Information Center on his facebook page.

Apparently the individual involved used an Airbag Avy Pack to aid in escaping the slide: Results for Avalanche Airbags

Here is a TR with photos from the individual: Why you should go get an avy pack... TODAY! ( - Back Country Rebels - Forums

Thought I would share this with everyone. The Avy Pack is a product that I didn't even know existed, and it seems to be effective. $1000 is expensive, but how much is your life worth?


----------



## JCKeck1 (Oct 28, 2003)

Supposed to be better than a beacon cause it'll help you avoid the trauma in addition to the burial. Experts say that if you have to pick one, they'll take the bag. It's been used in Europe and around the world for years, but there was some technicality in getting it here. They're just starting to filter in.

Windpowderrock was the gent who got slid and posts here on the buzz and I'm sure he'll chime in here shortly. 
Joe


----------



## climbdenali (Apr 2, 2006)

BCA makes one that retails for 700, I think.


----------



## JCKeck1 (Oct 28, 2003)

Read the thread....sounds like everyone is super bummed about the BCA packs, which is weird because I generally love their stuff.
Joe


----------



## climbdenali (Apr 2, 2006)

Doh. I just scrolled down the rest of the way on that site to see all the other packs. . .

Do you know what they're bummed about on the BCA pack?


----------



## Theophilus (Mar 11, 2008)

Heard of them but never seen one in action. Knew they were pricey.


----------



## Dave Frank (Oct 14, 2003)

Here is a link to a story about the Buzzard's near miss:

Kaleb Timberlake: A close call in the snow points to high avy danger | SummitDaily.com

Glad you made it home dude!


----------



## Jahve (Oct 31, 2003)

I have one of the airbag packs and ware it.. The reason I shelled out the cash is because I am out in avy terrain just about evey day in the winter and I think it is the best thing that you can have around or on you once things go pop....

I also have the BCA pack and they could do a better job in several ways like making the pack its self bigger, horizontal board carry system, and make it suitable for someone with larger than a 16" torso. The buckles are also a bit awkward and the pack is heavy. Flat out the BCA float pack is not large enough for me to carry everything I want to so I put it in another large pack then break it out when we get to where we are going to ride or ski.. When I am working I ware it and then leave the kitchen sink at home..

IMO these type of packs are the best thing you can have in or on you once the snow starts to move. If you are in avy terrain every day sooner or later you are going to be around moving snow and while float packs do not protect against trauma they will tilt the odds further in your favor if you have one.

Also kinda interesting that these type of packs are gettin to be standard issue with the high end of snowmobile/snowmoboard set. Most of my friends or the normal crew we ride with now wares them. IMO they are not a fad and should be part of any BC travelers equipment. I would imagine that they will work their way down to the side or slack country hiking set soon...

Glad to hear Kaleb made it out OK and I have seen pics of the recovered sled... I have to agree that the air bag pack pry saved the life of backcountryislife or kaleb.


----------



## JCKeck1 (Oct 28, 2003)

Denali - it sounds like the BCA pull cord/ release isn't attached well and can flop around. Hence people are skeptical of finding it during the chaos of tumbling on rocks under an avalanche. I agree with jahvea that these packs will be the standard in the coming years. Be safe out there.
Joe


----------



## chepora (Feb 6, 2008)

I just ordered the snowpulse bag. BCA has a lot of low priced gear but I've never been that impressed with their quality. The snowpulse retails for around $1000 and you can order it through avalanchesafety.ca. With all the patrollers and avy professionals getting killed, I figure education and experience aren't sufficient if you're going to be putting a lot of days in. Chris Davenport basically said that with enough days in the backcountry (in avy terrain of course) anyone will be at risk. As far as it being better than a beacon, the comparison is pretty hard to make as they are totally different tools and I would never replace a beacon with an airbag...wtf would my friends do? Additionally, people are sometimes still fully buried with airbags inflated. I do think there's a danger of increasing my level of acceptable risk, but I guess that increases with the number of days out in the bc also. The ski patrol at Jackson is ordering airbags, guides in Europe use them, and more and more data is out about the legitimate benefit of the packs. I will post a review of the snowpulse as soon as it gets here.


----------



## SnowBigDeal (Dec 16, 2010)

The ABS Airbag has been around in Europe since the late 1980's and has been in the United States for about 10 years. We have been carrying the ABS brand since 2004 and now carry all the major brands of Airbags. ABS, BCA, SnowPulse, and Avi-Vest.

We have all the Airbags in Stock (including snowpulse) and they ship within 1 day from Utah. 

The ABS is the "Cadillac" of the Airbags. They invented the market and their system is very refined.

SnowPulse has been around in the U.S. now for about 3 years. The trauma protection and air-filled canister is a big factor in many people's decision to go with SnowPulse.

The BCA pack came out last year and also uses compressed air. The BCA pack was a great addition to the Airbag market last year and is made in the U.S. The BCA pack was originally $499 and they have made improvements to the bag, but it is now $699. As they continue to refine the pack, it will get better & better.

The Avi-Vest is also a new pack out. It is VERY comfortable. It also uses compressed air, but is not as easily refillable as the snowpulse and BCA packs.

If anyone has any questions about airbags, please let me know. I have tried them all, talk with customers daily about them, and use them everytime I ride in the mountains.


----------



## Jahve (Oct 31, 2003)

Wow joe that is just about the first time that anyone has taken the time to spell my name right... I guess there is a first for everything ..

I hear the argument about the BCA pack's handle flopping around a bit.. I solved this in true snowmoboard fashion by leaving the zipper open and using a bit of duct tape to protect the handle and this still allows me to pull it if I need. 

As far as BCA quality - here is what I have used and seen from BCA.. I have a old beacon that is 7 - 9 years old and still works just fine. I give it to anyone who may not have one as it is my spare one now. Their new beacon is super easy to use and the range has improved... I just picked the new one up this year and while I may not use it every day it is a nice easy to use beacon with better range... I have one of their shovels that has lasted me longer than any other piece of BC equipment I have ever owned. It is 10 years old, had been used for everything from ax to a pry bar, and will still shovel snow.. I own beacons from mammut, ortovox, and BCA.. For most people the BCA is a great and easy to use.

Also for any of you out there lookin - the boys over at snow big deal will treat you right and have all the gear you need. IMO if you spend a lot of time out in the BC one of these float type packs is not a bad thing to have good old santa put under the tree for you and just may be the difference in making it back to the truck....


----------



## lmyers (Jun 10, 2008)

Thanks for sharing all the opinions everyone. It is out of the question for me to purchase one of these packs this winter...but it will be something I save for this summer. I have little doubt it is worth it.


----------



## chepora (Feb 6, 2008)

RDNEK said:


> As far as BCA quality - here is what I have used and seen from BCA.. I have a old beacon that is 7 - 9 years old and still works just fine. I give it to anyone who may not have one as it is my spare one now. Their new beacon is super easy to use and the range has improved... I just picked the new one up this year and while I may not use it every day it is a nice easy to use beacon with better range... I have one of their shovels that has lasted me longer than any other piece of BC equipment I have ever owned. It is 10 years old, had been used for everything from ax to a pry bar, and will still shovel snow.. I own beacons from mammut, ortovox, and BCA.. For most people the BCA is a great and easy to use.
> 
> .


That's all true but there is much better quality gear out there...I have a tracker...it doesn't even compare to the Mammut, even the tracker two is so bulky and awkward I can hardly even hold it in my hand (I do have small hands and has a shorter range than the older mammut. Used a pack of theirs and although it was adequate it just didn't compare to other packs I've used, etcetc. My BCA shovel would have worked fine as an axe or pry bar...much better in fact than as a BC shovel, but I sold it and have a BD one that is much more efficient and ergonomic. I do have a little inclinometer by BCA which I really like, small and compact


----------



## Waterwindpowderrock (Oct 11, 2003)

Funny... a thread about me kinda & I just now see it!

I've worked with all of the packs now, and am pretty solidly a fan of ABS given the choice, but I've got many friends with BCA packs (more,after my slide, than before...)

The BCA pack can be modded slightly to keep the handle from sliding around, and they now have a retrofit kit to make it even easier. I feel the "pack" itself is inferior on the BCA, but that's an easy thing to decide if it bothers you. I'm troll shaped, so the length of the pack was not ideal for myself or my wife, and we sold the bca we bought within a week of buying one.

BCA makes solid stuff, VERY well built, and utilitarian, but slightly less refined than some. I've got 2 tracker 2's... phenomenal beacon... but I use an S1 myself. If the BCA fits you though, go for it, it will do the job. It's also nice to be able to refill it easily (I have an adapter to fill the packs at a fire dept if anyone ever needs to refill theirs) compared to having snowbigdeal send you a new cylinder (it's at your door in 2 days and is only $30 so not that bad) for an ABS pack.

5 months later... still stoked to be alive, and still a touch more leery than I was before. I've always been very aware of things I climb, but having something hit you from above makes you look around even more when you're out tooling around!


----------



## moxie (Sep 28, 2010)

*airbags, beacons, avalungs, and the avalanche ball*

I put in my first several years of backcountry skiing in Austria, and the ABS bags are certainly popular there. At the same time, few people there were using AvaLungs. Everyone used a beacon, shovel, and probe. 

Over here in CO, the packs seem like they're starting to catch on, and AvaLungs are much more prevalent. There are also a lot more yahoos just pointing it through the fingers at Berthoud (a direct quotation from some jerk I gave a ride to last week - maybe we'll see his name int he paper).

It seems like people are more likely to adopt gear made on their continent? If prices were reasonable then I'd probably use every piece of avy gear out there. The most important is still the training and the self control to turn around sometimes.

One last observation is that nobody seems to be interested in using the avalanche ball, a device that would theoretically make a buried skier much easier to find. 

/ramble-rant


----------



## Waterwindpowderrock (Oct 11, 2003)

moxie said:


> I put in my first several years of backcountry skiing in Austria, and the ABS bags are certainly popular there. At the same time, few people there were using AvaLungs. Everyone used a beacon, shovel, and probe.
> 
> Over here in CO, the packs seem like they're starting to catch on, and AvaLungs are much more prevalent. There are also a lot more yahoos just pointing it through the fingers at Berthoud (a direct quotation from some jerk I gave a ride to last week - maybe we'll see his name int he paper).
> 
> ...


With an airbag, YOU are the ball, and by being on top you're easy to find... and even easier to dig out !

Avalung... I had one for a few years, but VERY seriously doubt how well it would stay in if you were in a bad slide. Also, if you're 6' down... avalung or not, you're not likely to be dug out alive. For smaller aspects, and skiing/ boarding, the avalung makes sense imo, but on bigger ones or on a sled... no bueno.


----------



## gobigohome (Jul 18, 2007)

Agreed regarding self control...this is the only sure tool to use to be safe, but I bought the avalung in thought of those situation when you just could not resist or did not have a choice. After having it out a couple times kinda thought is was rediculus. Your need to have it out and almost in your mouth on every shady slope. I am not going to ski with a snorkel in my mouth every time on a possible avy slope. It weights quite a bit two. I dont know how it compares to the ABS bag in regards to weight but in stat I think the ABS bag will win every time. This has to due with the ABS Bag proactivly helping to save your life compared to the avalung helping to keep you alive long enough for someone else to find you. Again all of this is personal opinion Im sure there are benefits to both.


----------



## Waterwindpowderrock (Oct 11, 2003)

gobigohome said:


> Agreed regarding self control...this is the only sure tool to use to be safe, but I bought the avalung in thought of those situation when you just could not resist or did not have a choice. After having it out a couple times kinda thought is was rediculus. Your need to have it out and almost in your mouth on every shady slope. I am not going to ski with a snorkel in my mouth every time on a possible avy slope. It weights quite a bit two. I dont know how it compares to the ABS bag in regards to weight but in stat I think the ABS bag will win every time. This has to due with the ABS Bag proactivly helping to save your life compared to the avalung helping to keep you alive long enough for someone else to find you. Again all of this is personal opinion Im sure there are benefits to both.


The ABS pack adds about 2.5-3 lbs if I recall... so somewhat significant. Definitely more than an avalung.

Yeah... the most important avy tool you've got is on your shoulders... Mine had a slight malfunction navigating in alpine terrain in a whiteout... derp.

Got a new turbo out of the deal though... so I had a good ego check... and a new toy, without too serious of a consequence, could have been much worse.


----------

