# Potential Gvt. Shutdown - Westwater and Ruby HT



## bobbuilds (May 12, 2007)

come on, we know for sure now.

This is so unfair.

fucking sucks, go anyway.


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## bobbuilds (May 12, 2007)

we need a list of all the areas that will be afected so that people will know what is up. make it a sticky cause this is going to last all spring.


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## Riparian (Feb 7, 2009)

bobbuilds said:


> we need a list of all the areas that will be afected so that people will know what is up. make it a sticky cause this is going to last all spring.


No way. If it happens at all, it will be brief. This is dickish brinksmanship and cheesy political theater. This is Tan in the Can Man showing the t-baggers what a tough guy he is. In the end, he will cry.


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## cadster (May 1, 2005)

If history repeats itself from the 1990’s, the shutdown could last from one to three weeks.

Seems the same reasons for the shutdown then, are happening again now.


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## Phil U. (Feb 7, 2009)

Riparian said:


> No way. If it happens at all, it will be brief. This is dickish brinksmanship and cheesy political theater. This is Tan in the Can Man showing the t-baggers what a tough guy he is. In the end, he will cry.


Well said. I watched TCM standing behind Harry Reid waiting to speak a couple nights ago and I swear he was getting ready to cry. The doode is third in line!!!


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## Dave Frank (Oct 14, 2003)

If the BLM closes won't it just become a free for all?


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## Andy H. (Oct 13, 2003)

Law enforcement are considered "essential" gvt. employees, so there will still be someone on the job who can bust you for violating the closure. They may also lock gates, etc.

-AH


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## mania (Oct 21, 2003)

we are heading over to sand island tonight. if there is a lawman tomorrow telling us not to launch then I guess we will go do something else, but i will want my money back.

I wonder if they will wake us up at 12:01am and tell us the campground is now closed!?


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## ksmclaughlin (Jan 19, 2011)

Thats what I would bank on, got two trips booked through westwater the next two weeks. That would thoroughly suck if we could not float as planned because of this BS. If they do shut down I hope they give us the courtesy of a self check in. If not I'll want my money back as well, with interest.

Thank you for the heads up AH!


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## Flohotter (Jun 22, 2010)

We are suppose to be meeting some friends at black rocks on Saturday and then continuing on down through westwater Sunday.. If they don't allow us down westwater I guess someone will have to walk to I-70 and hitch to Cisco or Loma to get our cars...This is going to be a pain


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## dgosn (Sep 8, 2006)

I launch at Sand Island next week, if the shutdown is a go I'll launch in Bluff and continue. I planned a trip, paid my fees, and have all the required equipment. If I am allowed to launch in the winter when no ranger is around I see no difference. I pay taxes everyday, and I assume I'll be paying federal mandated taxes during the shutdown.

I realize there could be Feds saying I can't go. Fair enough, I'll float past, stash the cat in the bushes and hike out before clay hills.

If the government has the $$ to lob million dollar cruise missiles in to Libya, grope me at the airport, and send $$ to Wall Street cronies then I fully intend to exercise my right to recreate on my tax funded federal lands with the permit(s) i paid for.

Since the San Juan is the border for the Navajo Nation maybe I'll get a tribal permit, launch on the river in Red Creek at the ghetto boat ramp (left side) and promise to only use the left (Navajo) part of the river.

They may confiscate my large boat, that's fine I'll get it back eventually, and don't really need it for spring boating anyways.

Bottom line is both parties can suck it, I am enjoying the rivers and permits I have paid for. If there is a shutdown i want a tax credit for all fuel i bought during the shutdown, I'll also file my taxes accordingly for 2011, if I dont get to enjoy the benefits afforded to me through my taxes then I don't see paying self employment tax when the government is shutdown. Timmy Geithner and his cronies can do it, so I may as well try.

in the meantime I'll be sharpening my pitchfork.


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## caspermike (Mar 9, 2007)

Is this closure effecting roads thru yellowstone park was going to take a scenic drive to cody.... and what's up with the ranger status?


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## cmike1 (Sep 10, 2006)

caspermike said:


> Is this closure effecting roads thru yellowstone park was going to take a scenic drive to cody.... and what's up with the ranger status?


I'd imagine Yellowstone and all other Nat Parks will be closed. 

Thanks tea baggers. Sounds like they have a deal with compromises across the board but the right wing nut jobs want to gut the EPA and cut of funding to planned parenthood. They can't let that fight go for another day. What a bunch of frackin' idiots.


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## dgosn (Sep 8, 2006)

cmike1 said:


> I'd imagine Yellowstone and all other Nat Parks will be closed.
> 
> Thanks tea baggers. Sounds like they have a deal with compromises across the board but the right wing nut jobs want to gut the EPA and cut of funding to planned parenthood. They can't let that fight go for another day. What a bunch of frackin' idiots.


I have to call BS on blaming the 'teabaggers' while I loathe Bachmann, Boehner,et al, this is to blame on both sides. I also agree that fighting over the EPA and Planned Parenthood is bullshit.

None of this is really about the environment or abortions, it is partisanship and a power play for vote. Both parties like their riders, pork, and special interests, they just don't like it when the other party gets it too. I blame both parties equally. Before you jump all over my ass go to opensecrets.org and look at campaign finance by PAC, by sector, by party, and by canidate, you'll see this is about who gets to be on the take, not about the common people.

So back to topic, I hope everyone with a permit launches and acts respectful of their environment (though jetskiing up sock it to me and skull sounds like a blast) Show the jackasses in DC that we dont need them as much as they want us to believe.

scott


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## teletoes (Apr 16, 2005)

dgosn said:


> I'll float past, stash the cat in the bushes and hike out before clay hills.
> .


Ummm... You might want to look at a map before commiting to a hike out of the San Juan basin.

http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=37.335497,-110.207977&spn=0.13212,0.43808&t=h&z=12


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## Flohotter (Jun 22, 2010)

So does anyone really have any idea about Ruby and Westwater? I am guessing Westwater permits are void. But what about Ruby or any other section of BLM managed river that is not permitted? Gunny Gorge? Any thoughts?


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## dgosn (Sep 8, 2006)

teletoes said:


> Ummm... You might want to look at a map before commiting to a hike out of the San Juan basin.
> 
> Google Maps


Before i was a lazy rafter 30 miles/day canyoneering adventures were the norm. This time it'll be out of principle.


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## Riparian (Feb 7, 2009)

dgosn said:


> I have to call BS on blaming the 'teabaggers' while I loathe Bachmann, Boehner,et al, this is to blame on both sides. I also agree that fighting over the EPA and Planned Parenthood is bullshit.


Uh, Scott, you acknowledged that the shutdown is the result of GOP dickishness on the EPA and Planned Parenthood, YET, incredibly, you blame both sides. Wow, that's kinda ridiculous. Did you know that the Dems negotiated $78 billion in cuts from Obama's budget? _Still wanna blame both sides?_ _Really?_

You can try to hide behind the _"they're all the same"_ cop out, but I call bullshit. They are NOT the same in this instance. It's the GOP that's causing this shutdown, and the hard right/t-bagger wing of the party is issuing the marching orders.


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## farp (Nov 4, 2003)

dgosn said:


> If the government has the $$ to lob million dollar cruise missiles in to Libya, grope me at the airport, and send $$ to Wall Street cronies then I fully intend to exercise my right to recreate on my tax funded federal lands with the permit(s) i paid for.


Bravo. Five stars. Thumbs up. Atta boy. You da man. F yeah. Well said.


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## okieboater (Oct 19, 2004)

I blame both sides.
If the Dems had done a budget when they should have, we would not be here at this point.
If the Repubs did not have the abortion litmus test applied to every thing they did, maybe we would not be where we are.

You can go on and on naming things both parties are guilty of.

My bet is both sides are playing this political game to the highest point they can as they watch the polls.

If the roles were reversed I would bet good money the Dems would be doing the same thing the Repubs are. That is how to get political gain from the budget.

What just tees me off is Congress and the President get paid on time, where the military has to wait. I wish we had a law that said each member of Congress and the President had to spend a month each year a war goes on at a front line fire base in Afganistan or an isolated police station in Iraq. Their position would be that of a private rifleman or woman. Maybe that would get us out of fighting for people who hate us and change the rules of engagement our troops have to contend with.

That alone would go a long way to solving our debt problem.


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## yarmonymatoid (Nov 5, 2008)

Riparian said:


> Uh, Scott, you acknowledged that the shutdown is the result of GOP dickishness on the EPA and Planned Parenthood, YET, incredibly, you blame both sides. Wow, that's kinda ridiculous. Did you know that the Dems negotiated $78 billion in cuts from Obama's budget? _Still wanna blame both sides?_ _Really?_
> 
> You can try to hide behind the _"they're all the same"_ cop out, but I call bullshit. They are NOT the same in this instance. It's the GOP that's causing this shutdown, and the hard right/t-bagger wing of the party is issuing the marching orders.


I call bullshit on this bullshit. The Tea Party are the only adults in this entire situation. The current spending levels cannot be sustained. There are local agency's to monitor and enforce all the various environmental concerns that might develop due to the Republican cuts. In regards to Planned Parenthood, if you liberals are so concerned about it, take out your check book and make a fucking donation. I don't understand why you lefty's think you have the right to pick everybody's pocket for your own agenda. If you gotta a problem take out your wallet and do it yourself. Oh that's right... your broke.


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## ajpz (Mar 8, 2009)

hijacking this westy discussion. they are the same. here's an interesting article on the debate:

With or Without a Government Shutdown - Republicans have Already Won the Debate | Common Dreams


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## dgosn (Sep 8, 2006)

Rip, I'll bite. You should reply in the Eddy, or have a mod move this there?

Yes in this case the republicans are causing a shutdown. The Dem would do the same if the roles were switched If it wasn't about Planned Parenthood it'd be about something else. It is partisan babbling. The Tea Party is the extreme right, and most of the Dems are just as extreme left.

To me it is the same, they all enjoy their Goldman Sachs, Raytheon, JP Morgan, and Exxon funded campaigns. This all shows that DC finds a polarizing topic among the citizens and play that topic so much people get crazy, while you and other from both sides are holding you partisan pom poms BOTH parties are funneling our tax dollars to no bid defense contractors, and wall street. Are the Wall Street scandals and military campaigns of 2011 any better than of 2003? 

If the Dems were the saviors of budgeting why are we still occupying and rebuilding countries that bomb themselves, and wait for us to rebuild something they can bomb again? Why did we send 100s of million dollar cruise missiles (Raytheon made, whose top lobbyist is under secretary of Defense, appointed by Obama) into Libya where religious and class struggles have been prevalent for decades? Why is a Goldman Sachs lobbyist chief of staff for Geithner? Why did the Dems decry special interests during the 2008 election and then appoint a Monsanto lobbyist to the FDA? 

I stand by my conviction that both parties are corrupt and want nothing for the little people. The Tea Party makes me as sick as Pelosi does. I'll allow you to bash me here, as this debate belongs in the Eddy. Besides as the government shuts down tomorrow I'll be on the Piedra in a blizzard where that shit doesn't matter at the moment.


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## mr. compassionate (Jan 13, 2006)

Riparian said:


> Uh, Scott, you acknowledged that the shutdown is the result of GOP dickishness on the EPA and Planned Parenthood, YET, incredibly, you blame both sides. Wow, that's kinda ridiculous. Did you know that the Dems negotiated $78 billion in cuts from Obama's budget? _Still wanna blame both sides?_ _Really?_
> 
> You can try to hide behind the _"they're all the same"_ cop out, but I call bullshit. They are NOT the same in this instance. It's the GOP that's causing this shutdown, and the hard right/t-bagger wing of the party is issuing the marching orders.


Rip, same old full of shit arguements, Dems put us in this situation you're now talking about $78 billion in cuts! What about the $500billion the dems added the the deficit yearly. You're so far out of you're league I'm glad I finally know your identity.


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## Riparian (Feb 7, 2009)

yarmonymatoid said:


> I call bullshit on this bullshit. *The Tea Party are the only adults in this entire situation*.


Just when things were getting overheated, Yarm comes through with an *awesome joke* to lighten things up. A real knee-slapper, I tell ya. _Nicely done!

_


dgosn said:


> Yes in this case the republicans are causing a shutdown. The Dem would do the same if the roles were switched If it wasn't about Planned Parenthood it'd be about something else. It is partisan babbling. The Tea Party is the extreme right, and most of the Dems are just as extreme left.


Scott, recall that the last time this shutdown charade took place, it was the Newtboy leading the charge. Now it's his nicely tanned protegé. The Dems had 8 years of Bushit to contend with, but never ONCE threatened (or initiated) a shutdown. Your "they're the same" argument fails... _again_. This is GOP "strategery."



mr. compassionate said:


> Rip, same old full of shit arguements, Dems put us in this situation you're now talking about $78 billion in cuts! What about the $500billion the dems added the the deficit yearly. You're so far out of you're league I'm glad I finally know your identity.


Oh, Benjy, I find it fascinating that a Mortgage Officer like yourself, who worked for Option One, one of the sleaziest subprime lenders out there, has the audacity to point any of your stubby little fingers at anyone. _Comical!_ *You and your ilk are directly responsible for the economic collapse.* Why don't you tell us how many "Liars Loans" you personally originated? Perhaps now would be a good time for you to go back to WMU to take an ethics class or two.


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## peak (Apr 7, 2006)

PSYCH!
It was a jolly good show...


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## ajpz (Mar 8, 2009)

graph of GDP vs GNP by prsident, 1940 to present. NB, clinton and pre-reagans did not do the trickle down economics: 

Gross National Debt as a Percent of GDP, by President

this one shows what happens when obama continues trickle down: 

United States public debt - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## RiverCowboy (Mar 14, 2011)

I can't help but propose that everyone that gets so fervently partisian about stupid shit like this is missing the larger picture in life, what really matters so to speak. How does it actually matter who specifically is to blame for incidents such as this, as opposed to the idea of "does it actually matter that we are subjected to an incident such as this"? I give no shits whether it is the fault of Dems or Repubs, I expect all elected officials regardless of party to reach a consensus that is to the benefit of the populus as a whole.
If one wanted to speak big words or act aggressively, instead of lashing out with accusations or other politically-fueled mumbo, one might say that we should remind our duly elected officials that they are elected by the people, of the people, and for the people (or something along those lines), and that we will damned sure raft the rivers of our choosing that our hard-earned, government appropriated tax dollars have so long paid to preserve. One might also add that if he had a bought-and-paid-for permit to raft a river of his choosing, and upon notification by a duly appointed law enforcement official that the permit was invalid said official was unable to refund the full amount paid for the permit, he would determine by common law and common sense that he still retained all rights and priviledges provided by said permit and put his vessel on the goddamned river. 

Of course, if one should choose to do this, it would behoove him to politely and respectfully explain his convictions to the enforcement official until his vessel be ready to depart...upon which occurence one might then clarify to said official that like myself, they give no shits about stupid partisian politicking and the directives that resulted, and that they plan to exercise their right as a free American to do what they feel is just.


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