# Any other River Moms out there?



## erdvm1

Congrats on becoming a mom! I have been an avid kayaker for the last 10+ years and became a mom in 2007. I now have two kids ages 2 years and 2 months. Kayaking is still important to me and I try to get out as much as possible. It would be great to get together both on and off the river. My email is [email protected]


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## RiverMamma

Yeah! River Mammas unite! I'm not much of a kayaker, (knee issues) but am a guide, 
(& have been for 10 yrs!) I took last summer off to be a full time stay at home mom, but am going back to work this year... it feels sooooo good to be working again! I got out play boating a couple of times last year, but it's just not the same...


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## erdvm1

Oops sorry Rivermamma
My wife accidentally logged in with my username. 
Her user name is Raleigh and I think she left her email on here to contact her directly


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## lalunalee

hiya! we take our babes out all the time! only class 2 with them. they are 3 and 6. I have been working as a guide again too. out of moab. one or two trips a year, so far...
hey i used to live in crestone, and my hubby did for 7 yrs.. maybe we know you?


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## RiverMamma

lalunalee said:


> hiya! we take our babes out all the time! only class 2 with them. they are 3 and 6. I have been working as a guide again too. out of moab. one or two trips a year, so far...
> hey i used to live in crestone, and my hubby did for 7 yrs.. maybe we know you?


Yeah, class II for my baby too, but by 6 my dad had me on class III. I'v been getting some work, it's still early season here though, had a trip yesterday & one comming up this sat. Anyways, Crestone... we've only been there about 2-3yrs. My Name is Elisha, my husband's name is Alex (he has a big red beard & long red hair, I'm tall & blonde.) We play celtic music... you might have seen us at the buskers fest a few years back before we moved there. How long have you been in Payonia? I'm sure if we haven't met, we have mutual friends, Crestone is a smal town... There are actually a suprising number of moms there who used to guide! Only two of us who still do...


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## yakmom

*yeah ladies*

Hi Ladies, I am a mom and would love to meet others that paddle (either double blade or single blade). I am in the Fort Collins area so pm me if any of you are around these parts! I hope all of you mamas get out there on the river!


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## RiverMamma

yakmom said:


> Hi Ladies, I am a mom and would love to meet others that paddle (either double blade or single blade). I am in the Fort Collins area so pm me if any of you are around these parts! I hope all of you mamas get out there on the river!


I'm in Salida... sometimes. It's kinda close. Thinking about doing a mamma/ kiddo Ark float sometime in July...


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## CMonkey

I'm a mom and getting into boating. If you're ever in the Roaring Fork Valley let me know. Trying to get out there are meet other ladies to boat with.


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## Moab Enthalpy

River Momming, nothing like it! Took my son of six on two 5 day commercial deso trips 2007. Took my entire family (dad, me, son 7 and daughter's first 4) on a commercial 6 day San Juan 2008. My husband balked as he was not able to row so much in the commercial limelight, so we take on a three day San Juan with two other families June 12 2009.
Hint (in Utah) the May West life vest reads for youth under 90 pounds. If it fits well, the water levels suitable, littler children can raft commercially under this regulation. But take along the Class III and exchange the May West for this lighter PFD to play at the water's edge in camp.
And I find wrapping soft, worn bandanas around the life vest front panels alleviates the chaffing little kids can amass from multiple days of PFD wearing.
Nice to meet you. I am crazy chatty. I beg your pardon.


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## RiverMamma

Good to meet you ladies! Cmonkey- I don't get over to the western slope very often, but when I do I will let you know. Also, if you ever make it over to the Arkansas, or down to the Rio Grande, drop me a line! 
Moab Enthalpy- have fun on the San Juan! I think I was 5 on my first San Juan trip! How wierd is it to be a customer? (do you guide or just private boat?) I don't think I could ever get away with beeing a customer... even if I payed to be one I would still probly sleep in the kitchen & be the first one up putting on coffee water & busting out the bacon, break down the grover out of pure habit, & rush to find a spoon or splash top for another customer... I think the only comercial trips my daughter will ever go on will be as an extra ride allong, when she's old enough to help mommy out while working. Anyways, I have a super nice Stohlquest PFD for her. My dad used to put duct tape on the front of my PFD to stop the chaffing... it worked. BTW, no pardon needed, I'm obviously pretty chatty myself! Also, your the first person on here I'v seen who has been on the water longer than me! Right on!!!


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## RiverMamma

experimenting with smilies from another forum...bear with me here...
:love :lol :stillheart:

damn... well, those ones didn't work... lets see here...
 

ok, those ones work... so how do I transfer smilies from another forum to work here... anyone know?
:0 

those ones didn't work either...


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## mommydevo

i used to kayak a ton before my daughter was born, she's 8 now. i found it was so time consuming and i just didn't want to take the time away. we bought a 13 ft raft last year and have been LOVING it, lot's of daytrips, overnighters, we're doing 5 days on labrynth at the end of this month. i am so stoked to be on the river and the kiddos love it too!!! good to see other mama's on here!


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## yakmom

Hi Ladies, I am hoping to get on the water on Friday morning, maybe a Bridges run?


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## bbea21

Hey there, anyone up for something on the Poudre on monday, 6/15? I would be happy to do bridges, fliter plant, or am up for suggestions. I have been working all weekend and really want to get on the water!


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## wrighkar

Hey all you river moms with kids...can you throw some Class I or easy Class II (kid friendly) suggestions out there? So much of Colorado is awesome for the experienced, but I'm not finding much that's suitable for (5 and 7 year old) beginning rafters.


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## tlcDego

wrighkar said:


> Hey all you river moms with kids...can you throw some Class I or easy Class II (kid friendly) suggestions out there? So much of Colorado is awesome for the experienced, but I'm not finding much that's suitable for (5 and 7 year old) beginning rafters.


My kids are the same ages as yours and I've been boating with them since they were babies - We just did Deso a few weeks ago and I would suggest it, however it is flipping and pinning non-experienced rafters in the new Joe hutch rapid (high water. . . so ?). Ruby Horsethief outside of Grand Junction is really nice for kids. The moab town run is great, also there are quite a few runs in the Arkansas valley if the water level is good.

That was just a few that I could think of for new rafters but there are so many rivers and so little time! Good luck and have fun.


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## JohnsMom

I'm SO glad to see other RiverMommas out there!!! 
Our son (John) has been on the river since he was 4 months old. We had a hard time finding good "little" gear and wanted him to be safe AND comfortable. We finally found a great life-jacket for him. It was hard because when their so little, they don't have much of a neck - LOL!

Mountain Baby Clothes, Children's Clothing & Outdoor Camping Gear is a great source for gear! Kinda pricey but...

So far so good. John is 16 months and had more river miles than most of my adult friends! We joke that he'll be a guide before he's 3 . . . He LOVES anything to do with water. He yells "boat" when ever he sees anything kayak-shaped on roof-racks... What else would you bother to tie-down to your car??? He might be a little obsessed with water and so we've enrolled him in swimming lessons. John's working on jumping in and swimming to the surface with out a PFD in our local pool.

As long as safety is your first concern - that you should not have to "give up" your river life-style. My husband and I take turns rowing. My husband is the expert on the sticks and will row any new rivers or anything over class II if the baby's on board... SELECTIVE ClassIII is our limit until he can swim WELL.

Some of our favorite family runs...
*Gunnison Almont to Whitewater Park - to McCabe's in low water, the Park's too much in high water
*Lower Taylor - in Low water (around 600 cfs) John's fave - splish splash!!!
*San Juan - early/late season because of temps, not flows
*Colorado - Glenwood Town Run
*Colorado - Ruby / Horse-thief Canyons

Anybody else have good family runs?? Has Anyone done the Green w/kids?


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## JohnsMom

How is the Labarynth??? Thinking of doing that next season with extended family . . .


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## Kendi

JohnsMom said:


> He might be a little obsessed with water and so we've enrolled him in swimming lessons. John's working on jumping in and swimming to the surface with out a PFD in our local pool.


 
Just FYI, at that age any swimming lessons will only teach water familarity, NOT swimming skills. Children that young may be able to mimic swimming skills, but they lack the ability to reason when they need to use them if they fall into the water.

In my 19 years of aquatics experience (teaching swim lessons to managing two pools and a lakefront), the youngest child I have ever seen been able to demonstrate "swimming skills" is 2 and a half.

My advice, is start simple w/ the PFD and kicking. If you're gonna be on the rivers, then he'll be in that all the time anyway. Save the "swimming" until he's a bit older.

Kendi


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## RiverMamma

Welcome Johns Mom!!!! Gosh, you are a braver woman that I! I waited untill Charlotte was 12mo before taking her down stream! & Haven't gotten to the dunking head under water yet either... She is 17mo today & Loves playing in water & Loves rafting too... but is still really unsure about deep water. she Loves her PFD thought! She has a Stohlquist Nemo, & whenever she sees it, she wants to wear it! it's sooooo cute! Anyways, I have taken Charlotte on various float stretches of the Rio Grande near Taos, & from my boat house (near Big Bend,) to Salida on the Arkansas. When Charlotte was just 12mo, another guide/mom friend & I were thinking about taking our babies (hers was 9mo at the time) on the first half of the Salt River daily (AZ) & her husband was going to row. It is class III though... & we chickened out. oh well, Charlotte has hundreds of class III-IV miles in utero, & a whole lifetime ahead of her to run rivers!!! Oh, lat time we went rafting, Charlotte decided that anytime I was rowing, she wanted to be in my lap w/ her hands on the oars!!! Rowing with Mommy!!!! It was sooooooo cute!!!! Oh, & she also decided that she wanted to nurse while I was rowing too... baby strokes, baby strokes... I'll see If I can figure out how to post some pictures.


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## JohnsMom

Kendi said:


> Just FYI, at that age any swimming lessons will only teach water familarity, NOT swimming skills. Children that young may be able to mimic swimming skills, but they lack the ability to reason when they need to use them if they fall into the water.
> 
> In my 19 years of aquatics experience (teaching swim lessons to managing two pools and a lakefront), the youngest child I have ever seen been able to demonstrate "swimming skills" is 2 and a half.
> 
> My advice, is start simple w/ the PFD and kicking. If you're gonna be on the rivers, then he'll be in that all the time anyway. Save the "swimming" until he's a bit older.
> 
> Kendi


Kendi, 
I feel that I need to explain myself because of your response and how strongly I feel about water-safety...
When I wrote this I was speaking of water familarity in that we are hoping that his being in the warm pool will discourage fear of having water in his face - ie if we get splashed in the boat. And "swiming lessons" were a week of Parnet-Tot Classes.
I do not expect him to swim until he is about 3, nor take a more advanced class until then. For now going under in the Pool - NOT the river - is a big step and he enjoys jumping in. 
I NEVER let him "swim" with out myself or my husband holding on to him. 
We NEVER let John in the boat without a PFD on him. Just like we don't drive around until he's strapped into the car-seat.
We don't expect him to swim in the river or have the ability to make that choice in the face of danger. . . let alone put him in that situation anytime soon. 
My point in adding that comment to my post was that having a child so comfortable with water that he can happily be submereged (or just splashed in the face) is great . . . especially when you're on a boat for days at a time . . .
-JS


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## JohnsMom

Thanks River Mamma! It's good to find this forum!
I would have chicken out on the Salt too!... My rule is if its class III, we have to run it once with out John at similar flows. Its great that your Charlotte love her PFD, John isn't so excited about his...it is well toterated at best. My PFD is his least favorite thing because it means I won't nurse him.
Dad's helmet, now that's another story! And paddles or oars same thing, He REALLY REALLY wants to help too. John is walking and climbing and suddenly very mobile. I think that it was much much easier when he was itty bitty and slept as soon as we got on the water! 
Our new game is to put toys near the bail-holes. It's pretty effective in the old boat where there's a lot of water moving around. The new Avon has too much of rocker to have much water in the front. 
We go to the Salida Aquatic Center when the gang does the Numbers and or Browns. It seems really nice for the little ones. Do they offer any Tot/Parent classes? 
-JS


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## RiverMamma

JohnsMom said:


> I would have chicken out on the Salt too!... My rule is if its class III, we have to run it once with out John at similar flows.
> 
> Its great that your Charlotte love her PFD, John isn't so excited about his...it is well toterated at best. My PFD is his least favorite thing because it means I won't nurse him.
> 
> We go to the Salida Aquatic Center when the gang does the Numbers and or Browns. It seems really nice for the little ones. Do they offer any Tot/Parent classes?
> -JS


I do know the Salt VERY well... (at just about any flow,) I have worked it comercially every season it's run since 2001 (except '08... Charlotte was born in the middle of Salt season '08! So we just went for a visit that year, I got to run the daily... under strict orders from the midwife that I was not to touch a paddle... man was that hard!) Anyways, it was the other couples first Salt season, & he is a good boater, I just wasn't comfertable... maby I'm just a controll freak... Anyways, it was only a month or so later that Charlotte did take her first raft trip, on class II, Rio Grande, with my all time ultimate whitewater hero & surroget dad rowing ("Uncle" Steve Harris, owner of Far Flung Adventures,) I felt Very comfertable in that situation! Anyways, yeah! the bilge water is the best! As long as she's happily distracted w/ the bilge water it's fine, but as soon as she remembers the river is on the outside of the boat, I have to keep a white knuckled grip on her! Oh, & as far as nursing in PFD's go, I wear an Astrail womens wonder jacket, & it has a buckle underneith the zipper so you can wear it w/ the zipper open, I think the idea here was ventilation... but it works great for nursing! Also, my best friend (another guide/mom,) wears a Lotus Lola(?) (I think... side zip womens vest...) anyways, she can just pop her breast right out the side of her PFD to nurse!!! I really need to figure out how to post pictures here!!! The picture on my profile page is of nursing while rowing though, you can at least see that. Anyways, I don't know if the Salida Aquatic center offers tott classes or not, I'm actually in NM presently... but I would guess they probly do. Maby I should look for something like that here... not like I would be able to participate for a few months anyways. I broke my ankle last week... so I'm high & dry for a while.  but that could be something good for her to do over the winter in preperation of next season!!!


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## RiverMamma

Yay! Ok, so I figured out how to post an album on my profile page, haven't figured out how to get them into the forum, but at least you can see pictures via my profile now. So, if you go scrolling through the album there are various nursing/rafting picts. I know my friend Kathleen nurses in her PFD too, but I'm not sure what she wears/how she does it. Like I said, Jeremy & I's PFD's just seem to work for it! I could see something like an Extrasport highfloat not working so well though...


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## Kendi

John's mom-

Glad to hear you are reasonable in your expectations of what your child's swimming ability is. Many parents I have dealt with over the years have pretty unrealistic expectations of what their child is able to do (ex. "My child has been in swimming lessons for 2 years- why do I need to be right by him?" well- that would be because you child is 3 yrs old ma'am....) KWIM?

Anyway, sounds like you're off to a great start with a kiddo who loves the water. Kudos to you!


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## yakmom

Hey Girls, sounds like many of you share my complete-all-consuming passion for liquid, would love to get on a river with you all sometime. I am looking at Ruby/Horsetheif for the little ones first (they are 4 and 1). I know a late start but they have floated in an eddy on the Poudre in a ducky a lot. Just never went downstream. RiverMamma, sorry to hear about your ankle. bummer. Hopefully I can share the river with you all soon.


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## JohnsMom

*Ruby Horse-Theif Canyon*



yakmom said:


> Hey Girls, sounds like many of you share my complete-all-consuming passion for liquid, would love to get on a river with you all sometime. I am looking at Ruby/Horsetheif for the little ones first (they are 4 and 1). I know a late start but they have floated in an eddy on the Poudre in a ducky a lot. Just never went downstream. RiverMamma, sorry to hear about your ankle. bummer. Hopefully I can share the river with you all soon.


 
We are tenatively running Ruby Horse-Thief Sept 18, 19, 20th and have a (full)Westwater Permit 21, 22nd... I am getting a hotel in Moab with the Little Beanie-Boy and The "Big Kids" are running Westwater. We've got a big Group already, but the more the merrier... If you'd like to meet up, let us know!
-JS


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## yakmom

We are hitting R/H the weekend before. No westy this time unfortunately...Next time???


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## carvedog

*River Dads too???*

I have been getting some families into/back into this summer and having a blast doing the family thing. 

Last summer - my river mama and my girls ready for their first overnighter to get ready for a MF Salmon. 










My 3.5 yr old couldn't wait to get into the river at Indian Creek. 











Daddy can I oar wit you? Why yes you can. 










Turning 7 on the river means tiaras, presents and decorations for the boat.










Hey do you wanna play run around the poop bucket?
For an hour. Kids are awesome and river life is good. 



















Pure joy. 










Earlier this summer. We had a double hookup with both kids about five minutes later.










Can I do it myself Dad? Four years old and can't wait to get after it. 










I loved the kid stoke on this thread. Apologize in advance for crashing. 

Thanks. Was fun to look up some of these. Getting ready to do another MF in a few weeks and the girls are PSYCHED.


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## yakmom

Those pics are fantastic. Thanks for sharing carvedog. I hope the look on my little crumb-snatcher's face is that completely euphoric. What river was this on?


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## carvedog

yakmom said:


> Those pics are fantastic. Thanks for sharing carvedog. I hope the look on my little crumb-snatcher's face is that completely euphoric. What river was this on?


thanks yakmom. I thought being on the river was great and then getting out there with my family took it to a whole new level.

The river is the Middle Fork Salmon last September. 

We did get stuck once pretty badly ( tying a fly on instead of rowing) but the flip/swim potential is very low that time of year. For me anyway since I used to guide out there. I still wonder if I am soft in the head for taking the kids out there this young. But they do seem to be at their best when we are out there, so I guess I'll keep going. 

We flew them into Indian Creek ( 25 miles down) and then went 5 nights/six days down from there. Thanks for letting me share ladies.

edit to add: those last couple of pics are the day stretch of the Headwaters Main Salmon near Stanley.


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## penguin

River dad here, but the mom could post the photos just as well! We just came off a trip about a week ago. Wow, how much fun we had! It was probably the best vacation of our lives. We ran the top Boundary to Cache Bar in eight days. The kids loved it, especially when they started fishing. 

What's with the helmets? Probably not necessary, except for when they were in the IKs. This trip was self-supported so we didn't know what to expect for a first-time adventure on this river. The flows were perfect and the rapids were totally manageable, especially with a tad of scouting. 

That Lake Creek second rapid is another story - what a shocker! Lots of whitewater and it tries to push you into a mega rock and drop place. 

The MF Salmon is a great river for kids at 2' and below as far as I'm concerned.


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## nupey

RiverMamma said:


> Hey gals, I have been a boater my whole life & reciently became a mom! I have stumbled across a few other boater moms, & would Love to connect with more! It's great to have friends you can connect with on many levels...


 
HI
I am a mom with three teenagers. At age 52 I want to become an experienced river rafter (I've always been a kayaker) I need suggestions for a raft that is easy for me to row and that can cary gear for 5 people for multiple day trips. I am 5' 4" and weigh 115 lbs. I welcome suggestions!


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## wyboat

You probably want a 16' raft. I have a 14 and it fills up quick. It is full with 2 people and gear on a single boat trip.


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## eastcreek

My friend is your size and captains a 16 ft vanguard with her 3 kids (we're about your age also). Mostly class IIIs. The kids are in duckies alot. Another friend rows a 14 ft Hyside with 2 pre teen kids and she is your size. 
I am 5"10 and do ok with a loaded boat through IIIs. I am well conditioned. We still have a 14ft Maravia and a duckie with our 2 teens. We are going to add a 16fter for our longer trips. Its nice to have the boat just with my hubby now when they are in the IK or in another boat. When the teens are in the boat, so much insight into the teen person is gained. 
The amount of gear doesn't really change, just the size of the passengers. We carry more food of course. 
We started out in canoes, john boats to raft and IK.
My kids have grown up on the water. Our 15 yr old daughter is loving taking over the oars, seeing her confidence grow on the water and in life. I'd add a photo but can't figure it out. Our 12 yr old son swam this summer on his first solo rapid from the IK. But got back in and was ready to go.


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## nupey

I love this forum! Two replies within 1 hour of posting my question. 

We have been using a 16ft cataraft and I've had a hard time rowing it. I'm not strong enough. I depend on my husband to row and deal with all the equipment while I take care of all the food and kids' stuff. It's a typical division of labor. 


Probably what I really need to do is spend more time rowing and getting better. I'm going to do a 5 day raft guide training this spring on the Animas River which is literally in my backyard. I want to be self sufficient so I can do trips without my husband. My kids can certainly be in duckies so I need a raft big enough for gear and food for say a 4 day trip. I also want my kids (ages 18,16,13) to become better rowers - so it needs to be a boat that they can row too. 

A friend of mine with two kids has a NRS E150 and she recommended I get that. It's pricey. Brand new it's $5250 and that's without the frame.

A 15 foot raft is right between the two suggestions for a 14 and a 16 footer.


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## RiverMamma

OMG! carvedog, that is soooooo cool!!! No you are not crazy for taking a 4yo on the middle fork, my dad took me on the middle fork at 4... also, I turned 7 on the Salmon too!!!! (The main though,) but still how cool is that! What lucky girls you have!!! BTW, can you tell me how you posted the pictures to the body of the message????

peggyz, you absoulty CAN row a 16' raft... it's about finess, not streingth. you could row an 18 footer! I know many small women who are great rafters! We had a rookie guide at my company this year who was like 5ft nothing and maby 110... maby, & she did awesome! I am not a small woman, so it took me years to learn how to finess... but believe me, it is much better than muscling & you will learn quickly. I would think more about what you are running than your streingth when considering boat size. 12-14 footers are great for all these little low water techincal rivers like the animas, arkansas or rio grande. 16-18 footers are better for high volume rivers like the green & colorado.


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## eastcreek

*kids on the water*

Our kids have had most of their birthdays on the river. We've even had their friends with us for their friends' memorable birthdays.

Wanted to share our 15 year old with her immunity necklace on the San Juan this summer for her birthday. Allowed her no chores for 24 hours. She could also ask each person on the trip to do something for her. We then passed the necklace onto the next birthday guy and gal on each successive night. Nothing better than a DO cake on the river. 

I agree with rivermamma, size does not make the rower, but rather the fitness and finesse of the captain with hours and miles to hone our skills. Our daughter is rowing lots now and is wanting to guide when she hits that age. Always knowing our limits is what makes us great boaters.

On our trip on the San Juan in June, all 5 of our rafts were managed by us gals (all over 48 years old). The men were loving being in the duckies with kids and passengers on the boats.


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## lhowemt

peggyz said:


> We have been using a 16ft cataraft and I've had a hard time rowing it. I'm not strong enough. I depend on my husband to row and deal with all the equipment while I take care of all the food and kids' stuff. It's a typical division of labor.


Have you checked into your rigging setup? If it is hard to row, maybe it's overloaded, which makes cats like big pigs. Or maybe the weight it not very well centered, or in relation to where the oars are. A well loaded boat shouldn't be that tough to row on mellow water, so if that's a problem you might look into your rigging/loading.


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## RiverMamma

lhowemt said:


> Have you checked into your rigging setup? If it is hard to row, maybe it's overloaded, which makes cats like big pigs. Or maybe the weight it not very well centered, or in relation to where the oars are. A well loaded boat shouldn't be that tough to row on mellow water, so if that's a problem you might look into your rigging/loading.


 Absolutly!!! Also, look at where your seat it, (can you reach a good place to put you feet for leverage?,) and where your oars are, (are they too close or to far from your seat? too high or too low?) Another big thing is where your oars sit in the oarlock. I like my oars to just barely overlap by about a quarter inch at the handles. I always have to adjust my oars whenever I pull out a frame for a comercial trip because it seems like every other guide in the world likes to leave big gaps between their handles! which is really silly because it it the least effective position you could have them in & means allot more work for the oarsmen! The most leverage you can get out of your oars is to have the handles compleetly overlap. Sure you have to be conscious of your knuckles, but that's easy enough & soooo worth the extra leverage! Experamint with where you want your oars in relation to your seat & in relation to eachother... you'll find your sweet spot, & that can make a HUGE difference!


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## mommydevo

We did Labrinth at the end of last June with a couple of other families, it was super fun and scenic, my kids are 5 and 8, lots of swimming and exploring, but the mosquitos were absolutely BRUTAL. We brought two full cans of bug spray and ran out halfway through the trip. Wet spring last year so maybe it's not that bad all the time. I would definitely do it again but maybe at a different time of year.


JohnsMom said:


> How is the Labarynth??? Thinking of doing that next season with extended family . . .


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## halfdry

Even though these posts are a year old, once a river mom - always a river mom. Any river families want to spend the holiday weekend on the lower gunnison? We have a 2 year old son.


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## RiverMamma

welcome halfdry! yes indeed, once a River mom, always a River mom... even my mom gets out on the water every once in a while still! I'm not familiar with the lower Gunnison... never ran it... what kind of a stretch is it? class II I presume? how many miles? I have a 2 1/2 year old daughter... River Babies Rock!


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## halfdry

The description in Colo Rivers & Creeks: "Mellow section of the Gunnison through the high desert, red rock country, south of Grand Junction. Good for beginner kayakers and rafters who want a nice float." I hear the scenery is great, lots of great hiking (ha - hard with 2 year old I know) with petroglyphs along the way. It is mostly flatwater with current. Class II to III-. It will be fun! Especially with more families. You are so more than welcome!


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## Gremlin

The lower Gunnison is great! Ran it this year during runoff; came the next week and ran it again! Beware the low-head dam, run it far left. Camp at Dominguez for great hiking (better after the first mile). The takeout at Whitewater SUCKS!!!! I don't know where else to suggest, but the Whitewater takeout SUCKS!!!!! Plan on two additional hours to get your boat out of the water. You can't back down. If you do, try to leave 6 inches between the train tressles. Don't back into the water or your trailer may drop off 18 inches and your tire may pop trying to pull it back out. Look for the brown takeout sign 1/2 mile upstream or you will miss it. Maybe it's not so bad at lower water.

Have fun, be careful. Talk to the friendly locals.


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## halfdry

RiverMamma - back from a super successful trip on the lower gunninson. With our 2 year old on the raft and another 6 year old in a canoe with her mom. It was very mellow with 1 class II rapid. And the dam was class I plus at this level. It was a very beautiful, deep canyon. Hope to do it again with other interested river moms. Anytime.


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## lchastai

Hi ladies! I have twin 0 year old boys, and I am just getting into rafting after being a class I-II canoer for most of my life. I have done (in a canoe) the S Platte east of Denver, the s fork of the s platte near deckers, Stillwater canyon on the Green, among other. I just went down the Grand Canyon this past sept (just me, no kids or hubby, on this trip and fell in love w rafting - just bought a 16' avon boat and am busy getting outfitted. Fun, fun! I plan on getting out with my boys next year. Let me know if there are any kid / family friendly floats being planned for next year...


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## RiverMamma

welcome lchastai! Yay open boating!!! How funny, I have been a rafter my whole life & want nothing more than a mad river outrage rx canoe!!!  How cool that you got to go do a Grand trip sans family, my best friend (a mom & guide as well) & I did the same thing last spring, left the kids to the dads &/or grandmas & took off for 18 days of bliss down the big ditch! Soooooo good for the mommy soul! So, 16' avon, nice score! after 25 years of private boating & 11 years of guiding, you would think that I would have my own rig by now... but alas, since my little 12' rig died almost 8 years ago, I'v just been using company boats since... sigh, someday I will have a '14 AIRE, fully kitted out, along with that mad river canoe!  Anyways, yeah family floats, so the Chama & San Juan seem to happen pretty regularly around these parts (I'm in NM these days) but I spend a good bit of time in the Salida/ BV area too & tend to do family day trips there allot. There are thoughts of a winter Big Bent trip, but we'll see if anything comes of that... otherwise, I will definitley post trips as they manifest next season. For now, lets all pray for snow! (btw, wow, twins... stronger woman that I!)


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## lchastai

Hi RiverMama! I just realized that I left the "1" off of the "10" as in 10 year old boys, not 0 year old boys. I would not have left babies with my poor husband! That would be cruel and insane to all three.
I would *love* to get into gear with some other rafting / canoeing families - not many of my kids' friends' parents are really much into the outdoors, and it gets a little lonely for my boys to be the only kids on all of these trips. 
Yes, please keep me in the loop for any family trips you guys put together for next year - I am ready to get out on the water!
Oh and I have seen some pretty nice whitewater canoees come up on Craigslist over the last few months...
Lynne


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## yakmom

We do a Ruby/Horsethief trip every year (Colorado river down by Fruita) lots of families and little ones. Always looking for more. Call me next summer! Lindsey 970.231.5327 Cheers.


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## hand8272

I see that this is an old thread but I need some advice. I'm planning on taking my son(3) on his first over night raft trip down the Grande Ronde(mild class 2). I'm a experienced boatman but my wife thinks I'm crazy, I think he will really enjoy the trip. Am I pushing it to early? I need advice and thoughts. Thanks


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## Kendi

My only thought is who is going to keeping an eye on the munchkin while you're rowing? There have been some good ideas around here about keeping small ones entertained on a boat. 

I've taken my youngest down a class 3 late summer when he was 4 yrs old. Day trip and he loved it. Taking little ones can be done with a lot of planning.


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## hand8272

Thanks for the quick reply, I was thinking the same thing. He may not find nature as great as a due at that age. As a father I have big dreams of seeing my growing family having great memories of river adventures.


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## leo_amore

Assuming that your wife or another adult is along with you ( I think there was a previous post about 1 free adult - not rowing- per child) you should be good. We took our boy who was then 3 on the San Juan last year and he loved it. He had been camping a bunch prior to that trip though. Beach toys. bubble makers, looking for lizards and toads, etc. set up camp close to your kitchen, fire area so he can hear you nearby as he tries to get to sleep, which given the day he will probably have, will happen pretty quickly. Have room for a nap on deck, even if he doesn't nap the motion makes some kids sleepy. 
It would go without saying that anytime in camp, near the water that a pfd is on and rules about the water are strict and enforced. 
Good luck with your wife and have fun.


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## hand8272

That is some spot on advice thanks! Bubbles, frogs he loves it. Great thoughts on the tent close to the fire to hear my voice, never would have thought of that.


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## lchastai

Is anyone planning a Ruby / Horse thief trip this summer? I'd like to come + my two 11 year olds.


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## carvedog

RiverMamma said:


> OMG! carvedog, that is soooooo cool!!! No you are not crazy for taking a 4yo on the middle fork, my dad took me on the middle fork at 4... also, I turned 7 on the Salmon too!!!! (The main though,) but still how cool is that! What lucky girls you have!!! BTW, can you tell me how you posted the pictures to the body of the message????


Great thread bump. Nothing better than boating with my kids. Love to boat with my wife too, but it's such a new experience for the little ones. They bring back that innocent sense of wonderment that a river should always inspire.

Didn't mean to ignore your post RiverMamma, I was actually on the way to the river when you posted that. To post pics to the thread you have to upload them to an album on your profile. Then each individual photo will have an embed code at the bottom when you look through your album. Copy and paste to your post on the thread of choice and it shows up.


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## RiverMamma

hand8272 said:


> I see that this is an old thread but I need some advice. I'm planning on taking my son(3) on his first over night raft trip down the Grande Ronde(mild class 2). I'm a experienced boatman but my wife thinks I'm crazy, I think he will really enjoy the trip. Am I pushing it to early? I need advice and thoughts. Thanks


Hey hand8272, way to go! you are definitely not pushing it to early! (as long as your son is into the idea.) Last summer I took my then 2 year old daughter on a 5 day San Juan trip. The other two boats both had young children on them as well, but they were both whole family units, so yeah they had moms to read books, apply sunscreen & dig for snacks while the dads rowed. Our little boat though, was just her & I, & we did fine! The only problem I encountered was that I had to play the catch up game whenever I had to set down the oars to be the sunscreen applier & snack getter. I kept a soft jacks plastic welding bucket (those things Rock btw,) full of sand & water friendly toys clipped to the inside of the bow, & made that whole front compartment her little world. She is really good about getting down & holding on to her "rodeo strap" in any little rapids, & is one of those easily self entertained kinda kids. I spent many an hour rowing with her on my lap nursing in those first two years too though. Nap time was tricky, cuz I was in a little boat with no deck, but we made it work with spare pfd's towels, sarongs, etc... And yeah, when it comes to camp, just stay close to kitchen/fire & enforce pfd & water play rules. Your little guy will Love it!
I have to say that later in the season we did a 3 day Chama trip together & had a (non boater) friend on the boat with us, & it was Not any easier! In fact I almost felt like I had a second kid to watch!  So yeah, even with out a helping hand it is totally doable & totally fun! 
& btw, maybe I'm just crazy & I push the envelope, but my daughter started on class II day trips at 1 year old, class II over nights at 2 years old, & easy class III day trips at 2 1/2 years old! Having said that though, she LOVES it, she begs for it, she Always wants to go rafting & doesn't get to go nearly as often as she would like! (also bear in mind that this is a kid who walked at 8 months old & skid her first bumps [after weeks of begging] at barely 3 years old!) she's a go-getter & is not exactly timid... but, nature vs nurture, there is allot to both of them, & instilling a Love of nature at an early age is never a bad idea.  Happy rafting with you little one!


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## RiverMamma

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Here are a couple of pictures from our Juan trip last summer... Charlotte happily entertaining herself with a tin whistle, & our little rig! (it was super stern heavy cuz I rigged all our gear in the back to give her the whole front compartment for play zone...) BTW, she Loves to sit on my lap & help row! not so productive for making miles... but super fun nonetheless!


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## RiverMamma

btw, thanks carvedog! hope you had an Awesome middlefork trip!


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## BLott

RiverMamma said:


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> Here are a couple of pictures from our Juan trip last summer... Charlotte happily entertaining herself with a tin whistle, & our little rig! (it was super stern heavy cuz I rigged all our gear in the back to give her the whole front compartment for play zone...) BTW, she Loves to sit on my lap & help row! not so productive for making miles... but super fun nonetheless!




i'm pretty sure that was about 30 seconds before that tin whistle was given to the river goddesses, eh' rivermomma?

'had another great trip on the 'juan, e. wish you would've been there, although even C would've hated the last day. We took out early (abandoned the notion of a layover day) as we had wind gusts in the 70mph. serious shit. totally epic, brown-sky, eyeball-exfolliating, stinging sand. Saw your friend JW and he said "worst night i've hever had on a river" and something tells me he's had lots of 'em. unreal. 

oh. btw. SUPing RULES class II "white"water. like, really nothing better. that board was used by someone the entire time, other than the above-mentioned blast. 

luckily, there has go to be no more sand left in SE utah as it is all lodged in my ear and eye-sockets.


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## RiverMamma

BLott said:


> i'm pretty sure that was about 30 seconds before that tin whistle was given to the river goddesses, eh' rivermomma?


ha! yes, yes indeed that was just moments before that tin whistle was homage payed to the River! 



BLott said:


> 'had another great trip on the 'juan, e. wish you would've been there, although even C would've hated the last day. We took out early (abandoned the notion of a layover day) as we had wind gusts in the 70mph. serious shit. totally epic, brown-sky, eyeball-exfolliating, stinging sand. Saw your friend JW and he said "worst night i've hever had on a river" and something tells me he's had lots of 'em. unreal.


 Wow, holy scary wind storm batman! Wish I would have been there too... but sounds like I'm glad I wasn't! It has been a Crazy windy spring... I even took out at sousehole with a commercial trip one day last month... epic! Atom took out there that day too. Anyways, JW eh? yeah he has many nights on many rivers... thats definitely saying something for him to dub it "the worst!" ouch bro.



BLott said:


> oh. btw. SUPing RULES class II "white"water. like, really nothing better. that board was used by someone the entire time, other than the above-mentioned blast.


luckily, there has go to be no more sand left in SE utah as it is all lodged in my ear and eye-sockets.[/QUOTE]
ha! glad your stoked on your sup!  hope the 4 of you can eventually empty the entirety of UT's sand out of your orifice's!


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## RiverMamma

*River Mammas Group!*

Hey all you River Mamma's & Papas! So I created a face book group for river parents as a community place to share ideas, photos, plan trips, ask questions, etc... Anyways, if we are FB friends, chances are I've already added you (ie: BLott) But if not & you would like to join, we would Love to have you! Here is a link to the page, you should be able to click "join group" 
River Mammas! Hope to see you in the group & on the water!


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## mtriverrat

Great idea about the group. We love to raft with our kids. They were hanging off the front of the raft yelling for "more rapids" at age 3. We are going on our first Deso trip this year. Can't wait. They have been on lots of multi day trips, but always in MT. I'm looking forward to some warm river action.


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## RiverMamma

yay mtriverrat! I Love it when my daughter screams for more rapids! She ran her first class III at two & a half, and giggled & squealed through every rapid!


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## shappattack

what about river uncles


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## mtriverrat

If your getting kids away from electronics and into the wild - you rock.


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## RiverMamma

Yay river Uncles! My Dad was the crazy uncle who got all the cousins out boating every summer!


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## ranchman44

Hay Mom we will be on the ark river the whole week of the 4th again and my daughter [mom of three will be paddling I am sure she would be happy to meet up with some other paddling moms . She has just gotten her own canoe . She is headed to Turkey in may on a special educational grant . She has tremendous experience with kids in the public education system and if any of the other moms needed to pick her brain I am sure she would be happy to share . She is a professor at a university in North Carolina 
A lot of resources for Moms . Hope to see you again this summer


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## RiverMamma

ranchman44, how cool! I bet Turkey will be amazing! And how awesome she got a canoe! I paddle a mohawk rodeo, I would love to go paddle an open boat run with her while you guys are here!


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## Phil U.

River Granddad here. Spent my 60th b'day on the San Juan 2 summers ago. My 1 and 1/2 year old grand son helped me celebrate by sitting in my lap and helping me paddle my kayak in the flats for his first time boating in a kayak. Love family trips, especially warm weather San Juan floats.


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## RiverMamma

Phil U. How awesome is that!?! Yay! My daughter did her first San Juan trip at 2 1/2, thats awesome your grandson did it at 1 1/2! What a beautiful way to celebrate your birthday! too cool!


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## RiverMamma

Hey everyone! So I finally did something that I have been threatening to do for quite some time now... I started a blog!!! It is about raising kids in the world of outdoor sports, & particularly on the River. Just figured I would share it...  Journeys of a River Mamma Blog

Also, I posted earlier, but wanted to extend the invitation to anyone who missed it & would like to join, a facebook group dedicated to River Parents raising our kids on the River! River Mammas Facebook Group


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## NC_PaddleMama

Hi RiverMama! I joined your FB page and can't wait to check out your blog. I'm the daughter of Ranchmann and as he said, we'll be in CO over July 4th week (Salida). Would love to meet up with some other paddle moms. I'm just getting started on my own - paddled with my dad since I was little but now learning so that I can take my kids out.


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## RiverMamma

Awesome! I met you briefly below zoom flume last year, drop me a line when your in town, would Love to go paddle! Yay River mammas!


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## ritatheraft

*Camping on the River*

Fellow parents, 

We are planning on taking our 10 month old on some class II this summer. Questioning what to do for camping on the river. I would love to find something that doesn't involve the pack and play in the tent. Any suggestions? It may be the only route, and if so, no worries... but thought I would consult the experts.


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## RiverMamma

hey ritatheraft! So depending on how mobile your 10 month old is... (mine was a full blow running toddler by then) pack n play may or may not work, my daughter was thoroughly entertained by a sand pail & shovel at that age! A couple of bath books (the kind that can get wet) & a few favorite toys (not very many, sticks & stones are just as interesting!) Can be helpful too. Also, check out this FB group, River Mammas! These river parents always have some great ideas for entertaining kids of all ages on the river!


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## ritatheraft

Thanks, but to be more clear, looking for sleeping arrangement. He is entertained by his own shadow. ha! And he is crawling and pulling himself up. not walking yet.


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## RiverMamma

aaaaah... yes, sleeping is a totally different story. I slept with my daughter from day 1, so camping was easy cuz I just snuggled her right into my sleeping bag with me. If your not used to sleeping with him this can be a challenge for both of you! Though I do know parents who don't co-sleep at home, but manage it just fine while camping. When my daughter got older (& bigger!) She just slept beside us in her own sleeping bag, now (at 4) she slepps in her own tent all by herself & LOVES it! As far as your little guy goes, I'd say try a night together in a sleeping bag before committing to it on a whole trip! If it doesn't work for you, the pack n play just might do the trick, though you'd need a big tent! & yeah, totally ask around on the River Mammas group, I'm sure you'll get some other good ideas! Good Luck!


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## ritatheraft

I was thinking about just "free sleeping". Since we don't go to bed at 7 it will be interesting to see where he ends up within the tent boundaries! He used to sleep so well next to us but now mom and dad= play time. We'll give it a whirl. Thanks for the help!


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## jwithers

River Dad here. Just took my 2 year old on her 1st float on Sunday. It was only 3 miles, but she did good. I have a smith permit for this weekend, but the weather looks questionable. The smith is a super easy 59 mile float, but I'm pretty nervous about taking my little girl on a long float. I guided and swam the Upper Gauley for 5 years commercially and didn't think twice about it. I actually liked the carnage (in safe places) and it increased my tips. Completely different story with the kiddo though. Glad to see others are taking there little ones on the river. Safety 1st!


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## telegrl

*Try it next weekend on the Ark!*

Ritatheraft ! We are rolling two packnplays now- the extra gear has somehow not been too bad even at huts. it sure is nice to roll into a beach, pop the rascal in there and set up camp and chilll while they play in the diaper and quickly fall asleep under a sunshade. I am amazed how they never treat this arrangement any different than at home. If it's between 30- 60 F we use a makeshift sleeping bag for night - it is a snow suit with the hood cut off, the arms intact and the legs opened and sewed together like a bag. It has worked out for us. I sleep so sound that i fear squishing my younguns on the rio and i dont share paco's very well. But Yup, we roll with a 6 person tent now too. rad.


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## boaterchic610

RiverMamma said:


> Hey gals, I have been a boater my whole life & reciently became a mom! I have stumbled across a few other boater moms, & would Love to connect with more! It's great to have friends you can connect with on many levels...


Hi Rivermom! I'm also a boater mom. Just delivered my third child this spring. He's now 3.5 months old and it's time momma got out and did some paddling. Have to have the family nearby since I'm nursing, but would love to hang at the lake, go run something, or hang out and play with the kids. Hit me up! [email protected]


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## ranchman44

Just came back from a trip to the Nantahala river in N.C with the grand kids and friends . Ready to go to the Ark in Colo over the 4th of july .
We will be there at ruby mt for a week . Any one up for a big get to gether at BV park some evening over the 4th ?? My grand kids will be there and plus lots of other Kids


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## Mountainchick76

So glad I found this forum! I'm a long time river runner and a new momma looking for other families to play on the river with  Question: When did you first take your little ones rafting! Mine is 7 months and I'm thinking it's time to get him on the water. Also, any recommendations for infant PFDs? Anyone have a used one they want to sell? Last year rivers were too high here inColorado to float while pregnant, this year it's going to be a challenge to to find any with enough water. Momma needs some river time!


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## RiverMamma

Yay Mountainchick76!!! Welcome to the wonderful world of being a River Mamma!!! So I first took my daughter down stream at 13 months, but I just did a float with a friend & her 5 month old, have also seen some recent pictures of a 7mo old & a ONE month old out on their first float trips!!!!!  As far as when & where you take your little one for their first time, I think that just boils down to your gut instinct & your comfort zone. & hey, bare bones low is waaay better than raging high water for the little ones!


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## telegrl

welcome mountainchick76! we are in evergreen and get out quite a bit with kids and without. we've got a 6 month old and a 2.5 year old. give a call or pm!

any approved neoprene pfd with leg strap, head rest, and zipper + buckles does well for us anyway- for example check the connely wakeboard one (CWB neo infant vest). we have found the neoprene is the most tolerated (vs nylon) and having the buckle around the waste in addition to the zipper is huge. i am returning the stolquist nemo - it doesn't float my kids on their back as well as others and comes off to easily - a few weeks ago, on the boat my 2.5 year old reached over and in a second had my sons stolquist nemo pfd completely unzipped and wide open....yikes. no buckle around the chest on that one.


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## lchastai

*Any of you ladies near Golden?*

I am thinking *way* ahead - I would love to raft with some of you ladies and kiddos in the next few years. I have twin 12 year old boys, and I just started rafting about 2 years ago. I've taken my boys on the Arkansas, down Westwater, and this year we all three did the San Juan for a week in May (*fantastic*) (and I am rowing my own boat down the Grand come Sept 13th! Woohoo!)

I'd love for some of use to get together and do a "permit party" this fall. I don't foresee doing much more rafting this summer with the abysmal water flows (besides, I am using all my vacation days on the grand). It is different when you raft with primarily families vs a trip with primarily adults, and then one person brings her kids, you know? 

Besides, I'd love to meet up after work with some new ladies anyway! Especially ladies who want to get outside. Many of my friends are my kids' friend's parents, but not many of those ladies are really outside-oriented, you know? And many of my friends from work are guys (I'm a geologist - a pretty male-dominated career) so that can be awkward with my husband. Anyone up for a backpacking weekend?

I am happy to organize something if anyone wants to get together. I live and work in Golden... Anyone interested?


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## Kate.Colo

*Advice is needed*

Okay river moms. I'd like to ask for some advice. I am 5 months pregnant and am considering going on a WestWater trip at the end of April. Does anyone have any advice in regards to rafting while pregnant? 

I've had a really healthy pregnancy and have remained super active. I've been a guide for 5 years and have rowed WestWater before. I obviously wouldn't be rowing this time and would just be a passenger. My boyfriend would be rowing and he's been a guide for 10 years. I am considering walking around Scull Rapid and maybe Sock-it-to-me, but I almost think the hike would be more difficult. With our current snowpack being as low as it is, I don't think the flows of WestWater will be super high.

The river trip is with the rafting company I work for and there will be three EMT certified guides on the trip.

Thoughts?


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## MT4Runner

My wife will tell you "don't do a nice class II when you're 8 months pregnant and with a 20month old on your lap...during the toddler's nap time"

You will have no lap and the toddler will have no patience!


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## Amy T

Kate.Colo said:


> Okay river moms. I'd like to ask for some advice. I am 5 months pregnant and am considering going on a WestWater trip at the end of April. Does anyone have any advice in regards to rafting while pregnant?
> 
> I've had a really healthy pregnancy and have remained super active. I've been a guide for 5 years and have rowed WestWater before. I obviously wouldn't be rowing this time and would just be a passenger. My boyfriend would be rowing and he's been a guide for 10 years. I am considering walking around Scull Rapid and maybe Sock-it-to-me, but I almost think the hike would be more difficult. With our current snowpack being as low as it is, I don't think the flows of WestWater will be super high.
> 
> The river trip is with the rafting company I work for and there will be three EMT certified guides on the trip.
> 
> Thoughts?


Hi, I am an OB GYN in summit county so I get asked these questions a lot. Worst case scenario would be getting bounced out of the boat, hitting your belly, and losing the pregnancy. Sorry to be blunt but that's the risk. As I had another client say, low probability high consequences. Your spontaneous labor risk at 5 mos is pretty low. Good luck!


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## RiverMamma

Hi Kate.Colo! So I worked browns canyon (class III) every day all through my first trimester, and my best friend floated the Truckee (class I) as much as she could during her 3rd trimester. I met Telegirl rigging her raft at stone bridge with a big belly (not sure exactly what month at) to run a class II section of the Ark a few years back. So I am going to say YES! Give that baby his/her first few River miles in utero! 

All of the aforementioned bellies are now accomplished little River Kids! (Mine turns 5 tomorrow & has almost 400 [out of utero] River miles under her belt!) I'd also say that you're probably right about hiking being worse than running the rapids. The main concern with boating pregnant is the possibility of taking an oar to the belly, but if your not the one rowing & you trust him at the oars, then I'd say stay on the boat & run it! 

Also, welcome to the wonderful world of Mommyhood! Congratulations! And yay for another new boater being born!  If you do the facebook thing, I'd like to invite you to join a fantastic group called River Mammas that is a great source for all things River & kid related, & just a fantastic community of boating parents! http://www.facebook.com/groups/250132875077406/?fref=ts

Anyways, again, CONGRATULATIONS! & YES DO IT!


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