# Gates of Lodore for small kids



## lmyers (Jun 10, 2008)

Depends on time of year, your children's comfort level with whitewater, and your abilities. There are plenty of people who could do it and have fun, but many more for whom its probably a bad idea.


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## peak (Apr 7, 2006)

I now have a 2 and a 5 year old. We have floated the Main Salmon, San Juan, and Deso with kid(s), but probably wouldn't do Lodore...Theres not a real good walking option at Hells, and Split Mtn, while not really hardcore, is not a risk I'd take with kids...


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## mania (Oct 21, 2003)

Good to go after peak flow you may want to walk the kids around hells half mile depending on your skill level. Last trip I was on took 8 yr old through and a buddy took his 4 yr old. No problems for us but definitely make your own call.


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## F.A.A.C. Slim (Jan 14, 2010)

I would worry far more about the kids being exposed to the rangers at Lodore than the river...


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## catwoman (Jun 22, 2009)

You could take out above Split if those rapids worry you.


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## [email protected] (Jun 1, 2010)

I went down there with 9 and 12 year olds, experienced, strong swimmers and it worked out good. I personally would not take any kid on that stretch of the green that could not self rescue if necessary.



The ranger was more than a little bit full of himself.


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## thinksnow (Aug 21, 2013)

These are great post. I also have been thinking about taking my kids on this stretch too.

Thank You


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## asleep.at.the.oars (May 6, 2006)

I hold to don't boat it if you won't swim it, and there is too much in Lodore that I would not want a 3 y.o. swimming. I think 6 is the youngest anyone will take commercially. YMMV... Other than rapids that are higher consequence than fun, it's a great trip for kids with short river days, great camps, and fun hikes.

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## RiverMamma (May 3, 2009)

Here is a write up on my experience of this exact subject... The Gates of Lodore vs the First Day of Kindergarten. 

Please take into account though what lmyers said about your experience and the comfort levels of both you and your kids. I am a very experienced boater and my daughter is a very seasoned camper and boater, so our comfort level is different than many peoples. Having said that, the Gates of Lodore definitely pushed my comfort level a little bit, (just with bigger rapids that I didn't know.) But for us the experience was beautiful and well worth it! 

Also, just to throw it out there... there are a ton of Awesome multi day trips that have less intense whitewater. There has been a recent thread about it here... Also, a great resource for family boating is the FB group River Kids, and there have been some recent family multi day discussions happening on there. 
https://www.facebook.com/groups/250132875077406/?ref=br_tf


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## [email protected] (Jun 1, 2010)

One more thought about this section of green, last year bears were a small problem and skunks at jones hole camps a big problem.


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## Randaddy (Jun 8, 2007)

I think 3 is way too young for Ladore. Boats flip there. Do the A, B, and C sections above in conjunction with the free play permit to take out at the Ladore boat ramp. Some smaller rapids, better access if you need it, and less chance of a dead 3 year old...


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## unlucky (Sep 2, 2012)

*My 5 year old swam Moonshine*

Very experienced friend and his wife flipped a boat in Moonshine at high water. My 5 year old daughter was also in the boat. She did not enjoy the swim very much. Fortunately she was under the direct supervision of another adult and they were holding on to each other as they entered the rapid.

I look at rapids and stretches a lot different after that. It was probably more terrifying for my wife and I than it was for her. She had fallen out of a raft in a small rapid (she lost her balance and tumbled out) the year before which I think helped. She had been on 2 previous Lodore trips without incident, but those were at lower flows. For the next couple of years she would ask if we were going to run Moonshine when we went rafting.

It's impossible to explain the feeling that you have when your young daughter is swimming a large rapid potentially by herself and there is nothing you can do to immediately help. It only took us a couple minutes to catch up to them and we were glad to see the two of them holding on to each other.

Make wise choices!


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## RiverMamma (May 3, 2009)

unlucky said:


> Very experienced friend and his wife flipped a boat in Moonshine at high water. My 5 year old daughter was also in the boat. She did not enjoy the swim very much. Fortunately she was under the direct supervision of another adult and they were holding on to each other as they entered the rapid.
> 
> I look at rapids and stretches a lot different after that. It was probably more terrifying for my wife and I than it was for her. She had fallen out of a raft in a small rapid (she lost her balance and tumbled out) the year before which I think helped. She had been on 2 previous Lodore trips without incident, but those were at lower flows. For the next couple of years she would ask if we were going to run Moonshine when we went rafting.
> 
> ...


One thing I have to say about Lodore is that one of the only reasons I took my 5 year old is that it WAS low water... and I had the advice of another mom who is a Lodore guide, who told me to take her if it was low water, but not high water! 

Also, I hadn't realized that the OP was discussing a 3 year old... I definitely feel that three is too young for Lodore. Even though you can walk around hells half mile, I have heard horror stories of the walk being worse than the run! (lots of poison ivy...) 

Also, when reading my happy smiley rainbows and unicorns blog please take into account that I was at the time a 14th year guide, a 29th year private boater and probably had somewhere around 20,000 river miles under my belt. My 5 year old also had around 600 river miles at the time... not exactly a spring chicken so to speak... she had most rookie guides beat! (I knwo this may sound egotistical and/and or preachy, but I'm really just trying to give perspective to the reality of my situation.)

Also, as "unlucky" suggested, shit can happen even to the best of them! I remember almost flipping my daughter and all her cousins when she was 3 in a super low water rapid I knew really well... and it left quite the impression on me, let me tell ya! 

She has since that article taken a few good swims out of her kayak, and kept her head (and gear) about her, more than most adults do... but it still scares the shit out of me! 

I think what I am trying to say is stick to the San Juan until you are all ready for bigger water where shit can go down hard... and really, I'm one one of those "take your kids out there" advocates! Just sayin'... 

But yeah! Get 'em out there! Go run the SJ & Ruby Horse thief & The upper C & the Chama! Take 'em boating!


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## floatondown (Jul 15, 2007)

Another potential issue to keep in mind - wind. Took my 5 yo on Yampa prepared for rapids, but it was the brutal winds in split mountain that left a lasting negative impression. Hours of the worst wind we've ever experienced...too loud to hear anything, very difficult to keep boats together, meaning be prepared to deal with any situation on your own. 
3 sounds young to me, for what it's worth. 


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## Stiff N' Wett (Feb 18, 2010)

I feel if you have to ask other people if it's safe to take your kids down a stretch of river that you are unfamiliar with then the answer should be no. If you don't know where the scouts, Rapids, and camps are you shouldn't bring a child along.


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## Sembob (Feb 27, 2014)

Stiff N' Wett said:


> I feel if you have to ask other people if it's safe to take your kids down a stretch of river that you are unfamiliar with then the answer should be no. If you don't know where the scouts, Rapids, and camps are you shouldn't bring a child along.



At first I agreed with this belief but after giving it some thought I have to say I strongly disagree. I feel its prudent to gather as much info as you possibly can about a personal first accent on any river trip. Especially where children are involved. I don't think you become less capable for doing so. 
I personally feel 3 is too young to be camping away from a vehicle but I think you could be at the cusp both age wise and river wise also. The camps are very easy to find and pretty kid friendly and the Rapids are pretty straightforward at moderate flows. I absolutely feel that kids need an adult assigned to them, one per kid and the rower does not count. Still 3 is very young. 


Jim


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## caverdan (Aug 27, 2004)

I would not take any kids that young down Gates without having done it once before. I like to see what I'm getting into before risking the lives of that young of kids. Even at low water, some of those rapids would be long.... rocky.... swims....


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## Mori (May 21, 2013)

I took my 8 month old daughter down Lodore. It was low water. I was experienced on that stretch. We walked around Disaster, Triplet, and Hells. There was always an adult next to her whose sole job was to take care of her if anything happened. Your kids are older and I would think that if you are an experienced boater and you do the low water, walk the difficult ones and have an adult companion for at least the 3 yr old, it would be OK. Our biggest problem was the rocking of the raft put her to sleep during the day and she was up half the night. My kids walked Hells til they were 8 yrs.


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## Randaddy (Jun 8, 2007)

Mori said:


> I took my 8 month old daughter down Lodore. It was low water. I was experienced on that stretch. We walked around Disaster, Triplet, and Hells. There was always an adult next to her whose sole job was to take care of her if anything happened. Your kids are older and I would think that if you are an experienced boater and you do the low water, walk the difficult ones and have an adult companion for at least the 3 yr old, it would be OK. Our biggest problem was the rocking of the raft put her to sleep during the day and she was up half the night. My kids walked Hells til they were 8 yrs.


You took aN 8 month old down Ladore? You're either a troll or the most negligent parent on the buzz yet!


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## Mori (May 21, 2013)

Name calling is such an awful thing. We are not all as timid as you. There is very little in Lodore to cause any drama. Outside the three rapids I mentioned, it is a class II run. The biggest issue is getting stuck on a rock.


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## Randaddy (Jun 8, 2007)

An eight month old? I'm not timid, I'm just not a negligent retard. Name calling is the least of what parents like you deserve.


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## Mori (May 21, 2013)

Randaddy, lets not hijack this person's thread with a useless argument about your opinion on my parenting. The question is about young kids on Lodore. I gave my opinion and my experience. You have yours. We differ.


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## Randaddy (Jun 8, 2007)

Sure thing Mori. You probably need to go get your baby out of the car anyway...


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## panicman (Apr 7, 2005)

I'm not even sure why you would want to waste a spot for an 8month old. Its not like they are going to remember it. Heck a 3yr old really is not going to remember it.


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## Mark Mills (Jul 1, 2009)

The kids will have a blast...It's Dinosaur monument, after all!

If you score, be sure to apply for a day permit on the split mountain run the day *after *you take off so you can run it a second time. Permits are not available same day (sigh) and you have to put in for them with a guest list a week or so in advance. Your permit can be picked up at Vis Ctr. 

Split Mtn has the best rapids of the trip. Nice petros on the way to the put in at McKee Springs too!

Be prepared for mosquitoes...harder on the kids than the rapids!


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## AirEms (Jan 16, 2011)

Wow, this little thread took a nasty turn. I've been watching for the last 4 days getting some good perspective on young kids on river trips. I have been fortunate enough to float "Gates" and the Yampa through split several times. Mori took their 8 month old, good on them! They seemingly did it right. This is a trip that can and is done by family groups provided the right water levels and the proper group experience and dynamic. For Randaddy to vent such meanness about their parenting choice is not understandable. To compare a river trip under seemingly favorable conditions and leaving a child in a car is also not understandable. Unless Randaddy is actually Nancy Grace and just wants to be over dramatic and throw fuel on an unlit fire. My son was tent camping at 3 months and floating the river at just over a year. We have been fortunate enough to be able to bring him on several river trips. He will soon be 5 and will go on a Main Salmon or San Juan or low water Gates of lodore trip if the permit gods allow. In my humble opinion if the parents feel that the child can handle the trip and the conditions are favorable and all the proper precautions have been looked after then there is nothing wrong with kids even super young kids on river trips. Believe me, they do remember it. My kiddo still remembers his early outdoor experiences and continually wants to do more. Are we just bad parents or just bad parents who got lucky according to some? That is a decision for the parents to make. 
FWIW, 
Mark


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## asleep.at.the.oars (May 6, 2006)

Am I the only one to remember Randaddy's long history of histrionic and sarcastic posts that make a valid point in an over the top way? It's still snowing, maybe ICan'tRide55 can come back and help us find ourselves again

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## mervo (Dec 29, 2014)

What AirEMS said. 

In addition, it looks like I'm going to test this ignore feature.


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## the_dude (May 31, 2006)

Thanks for the input everyone. I had actually forgotten about this thread until this morning.

Believe me kiddos do remember more than you think. I'm amazed sometimes at what ours can recall.


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## Phil U. (Feb 7, 2009)

the_dude said:


> Believe me kiddos do remember more than you think. I'm amazed sometimes at what ours can recall.


Yup. And it all counts even if they don't "remember" it. Its about quality family time and exposing them to adventure and engaging the natural world. And if we adults pay attention there is plenty for us to learn from how our kids experience the wonder of the rio.


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