# Grey's and Torres



## jbarnow

iliketohike said:


> Anybody interested in checking dem out on da sticks some sunny weekend day in the future month?


Yes


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## iliketohike

this weekend is not looking good. But the next one, if the weather is good will work. Keep in touch and we will get er done. The more people the better (within reason). 

I'll research the beta and post new info later.


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## Waterwindpowderrock

Sketchy avy condition lately in my area to be hitting much of the good stuff on the 14ers, watch your back. Been getting some Slides in odd places & releases where tesing looked better than usual. I spend most of my days about 6 miles from G/T, so the snowpack is gonna be pretty comparable.

Be careful.

(and keep in mind, this is coming from a stupid sledneck, imagine what a cautious intellingent person would say!!!)


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## danger

if kaleb says it's sketchy then it's probably sliding under him. those up-ers are a shady bunch (or is fib-ers?).


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## Waterwindpowderrock

danger said:


> if kaleb says it's sketchy then it's probably sliding under him. those up-ers are a shady bunch (or is fib-ers?).


see, I told ya!

btw, it's cheesehead if you want to be Derogatory, I'm from the under of the upper eh.


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## iliketohike

so I was watching the tube last night...

These scuba 'gapers' were scouting a place to dive. These aboloni divers (da pros') told them there were great white sharks in the water and not to dive that day. The gapers decided to dive in anyway. 

What happened. Dude got munched on by da shark. 

Now I've been hiking and climbing for a while now, and the most important thing I can think of is to know when to turn around. This doesn't mean I won't start out on a hike I know might be risky. All I'm saying is I'm still going to try this one, but I'm not afraid to turn around and will pick routes that accomodate the sketch. I'm freaking terrified of avalanches! 

Thanks for the beta. Still going to give er, but I'll remember the beta and most importantly bring my humility on the hike.


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## rmpeddie

*SLIDES*

Slides this year are going BIG and DEEP. I was trying to get to the top of Frankenstein Chute in the 2nd Creek Cirque on Berthoud Pass. I chose the safest flatest route to gain the ridge but was called of course by a small (steep) headwall which had a few prominent rock butresses that I knew would bring saftey from any slides. Plus I could see grass and rocks so any slide was going to be small and manageable.

It came without warning and I started sliding over those rocks. Luckily I was able to swim to the side to escape but when all came to the fracture was over 100 yards long and 12 ft deep. The fracture was about 3ft. deep above me but grew to 12ft. further out on the headwall. Slabs the size of cars broke off. If I were a few feet further out on the headwall I really don't know if I could have survived. If anyone were with me it would have been bad. The thing that really sucked was the terrain that was uncovered by the slide. I would have been stuck on one of those butresses if I hadn't been swept away.

Avy's are apart of life in the mountains. We all probably know friends who have been taken by them. Situations escalate so fast. It's normally not the first bad decision that kills you... it just leads to it. It's easy to sit in our houses and say we'll choose a safe route or back off if it feels wrong. But after a 4 hour drive and a few hours of hiking/climbing/skinning it's harder to choose to back off. Self-discipline is crucial. 

I use to work with a guy on Rainier who always asked me if I were 300 feet from the summit of Everest, and he said turn around, would I be able to. I always said sure no problem... cause I knew I wouldn't go if I said other wise. Years later the question still lingers and I'm sure it always will until I get that call. The older I get the less chances I take but still can find myself in bad situations. It's a thrill to find that edge, stop, and look around. Just like this last slide. I told myself it was only a few feet... I'll be up it in a few minutes...

Be safe


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## Gr8fulfood

Check out CAIC website, the avalanches this year are happening in unexpected places. Summit County is known for their wind load areas. There has been alot of natural avalanches in places I haven't seen slide in 10 years. Avalanches don't care if your safe or willing to turn around, wait till the spring their are great descents with corn snow.


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## iliketohike

thanks for the good input. Skied Aspen Highlands friday and that place was sick!

I find this difficult balance to play. People like y'all talk about how sketchy the backcountry is, and yet, you go skiing. As I sit mainly on my couch typing about getting it done, and only actually do once or twice a season in the institutional setting I find a conundrum in place. There is always a reason not to go. The snow is too sketchy, too cold, too warm, too many people, bad equipment... The reality is that people die. We lost two in bounds this year. Vail lost two only a little off the resort. Sledders, who knows how many this year. It was the inbounds people that really got to me. They weren't trying to prove anything or be core, they were just ignorant and had bad luck. 

All I can say is that I may die as well. But I have a gut that tells me when to turn around, what is safe and what isn't, and I've made my peace with the fact if my gut is wrong I'll go out doing something I truly love. Want to talk about sketchy shit... try soloing 5th class rock or ice, or dropping a 5th class waterfall.

It amazes me that only one person responded wanting to go. The rest told me it was sketchy. Windwaterrock... thanks I really appreciate your response. As for the rest of y'all I appreciate the conern, but really despise the lack of specific beta. You guys are like the crew that sit at the put in of a 5th + class drop telling the dude about to drop it how sketchy it is, while you have no intention of dropping it yourself cause you dropped something else upstream. That's fine, but if your going to do something why not run safety at the bottom of the drop.


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## rmpeddie

Doesn't seem likes much has changed with you since you were calling people out for not winter camping earlier this fall.

I will speak for myself only here and you can take my words with a grain of salt. I tried telling you earlier that you could find some "bro's" over here off Berthoud Pass to do some of the things you want to do. 

To tackle torres and greys in mid-winter when the avy deaths have already surpassed last years totals (22 total last year, 26 already this year) is respectable and not so crazy as long as you have the experience and equipment needed. It's a feat that a few close friends and climbing/skiing buddies could tackle. Guys who have a connection and can predict, confidently, the moves of his other friends. Not much talking or explaining needed. You following me here. They aren't sitting on the side of a mountain introducing themselves and playing the "my name is ____ and I'm a mountain man" game. Don't think for a minute I want to attempt something like this with someone I don't know. 

As far as your gripes about lack of beta... c'mon. If you want to meet me in Winter Park I'll give you all my notes, books, and maps and draw you the exact line you should take... including hwy directions. I'll even help you set up base camp, plan meals, whatever. I'll bring along my scopes and communications so I can sit at base and keep constant contact. Just call me the expedition leader. I'll arrange for a climbing partner for you. You just meet us in Frisco and we'll take car of the rest... I may be a bit harsh here but you get my point. There is nothing better than going out and gathering your own beta on recon missions. Sure a few pointers from the pro's are always helpful and nice but if the pro's aren't telling you what you want to hear then what? Just don't disregard what the pro's tell you even if it's not what you want to hear... 

These folks who have been warning you are out there everyday... just as you say... warning you while they're playing. Just realize that these folks have been out here for years and are intimate with these places. How else can someone know there are slides in odd places. Just because they are out there doesn't mean they're taking the risks that you are talking about. 

If it's someone to say yeah I'll do that with you, that you're looking for, try hiking a few passes and getting to know some folks. Or starting a thread that begins with a few easy, orientation days, with the intentions to working up to something serious. It's tough to get folks to jump straight into a fire without a few warm-up laps... especially around here. Most these folks are well seasoned and have seen many kids come and go. I'm not telling you what to do. I'm just giving you my observations and input. Steamboat is having a banner year. You could have some guys meet you up there to ski and talk about bigger mountains and other plans.

Just understand that mountain folks aren't the most social bunch. They tend to be a bit crusty and protective. I understand you get a bit frustrated with the scene and let the fingers fly a bit on the keyboard but calling out the same folks who are trying to give you good beta isn't going to help your cause. No one wants to give you much beta becuse we all know in the back of our heads that you could get killed and we don't want that. "Well the guy on the buzzard said..."

If you want to send the thing do it. Don't count on others to help.


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## rmpeddie

iliketohike said:


> thanks for the good input. Skied Aspen Highlands friday and that place was sick!
> 
> I find this difficult balance to play. People like y'all talk about how sketchy the backcountry is, and yet, you go skiing. As I sit mainly on my couch typing about getting it done, and only actually do once or twice a season in the institutional setting I find a conundrum in place. There is always a reason not to go. The snow is too sketchy, too cold, too warm, too many people, bad equipment... The reality is that people die. We lost two in bounds this year. Vail lost two only a little off the resort. Sledders, who knows how many this year. It was the inbounds people that really got to me. They weren't trying to prove anything or be core, they were just ignorant and had bad luck.
> 
> All I can say is that I may die as well. But I have a gut that tells me when to turn around, what is safe and what isn't, and I've made my peace with the fact if my gut is wrong I'll go out doing something I truly love. Want to talk about sketchy shit... try soloing 5th class rock or ice, or dropping a 5th class waterfall.
> 
> It amazes me that only one person responded wanting to go. The rest told me it was sketchy. Windwaterrock... thanks I really appreciate your response. As for the rest of y'all I appreciate the conern, but really despise the lack of specific beta. You guys are like the crew that sit at the put in of a 5th + class drop telling the dude about to drop it how sketchy it is, while you have no intention of dropping it yourself cause you dropped something else upstream. That's fine, but if your going to do something why not run safety at the bottom of the drop.


I like to think of them more as the climbing rangers or patrollers who have done exactly what you're looking to do. They are concerned with your safety but more concerned about their friends who work search and rescue who will have to risk their lives to maybe find you.

After reading your post a few more times I must apologize to you. Anyone who can solo 5th class rock and ice or drop a 5th class waterfall surely can handle winter conditions on greys and torres. Look it, my slide story was really just that. A story for entertainment and maybe some useful knowledge. If you want to talk about the extremes bra then come on over and buy me a beer. I'll tell you what it's like taking turns carrying a man down the north east ridge of Everest from about 27,000 ft. on our backs or about my lead guide who took the brunt of an ice avalanche while pushing clients out of the way. Or how about the time when 4 out of 5 of my rope party fell into a crevasse. Or the best. My mentor dying while out touring on Shishipangma on an easy acclimatizing day. An avy from way high up nailed him.

Look it. I've tried giving you some friendly advice and it feels like you took a bite out of my hand. I'm old and crusty and have wasted too many days in the mountains with guys who had attitudes like yours... "i don't see anybody else so I must be the only one X enough to be out here" Good luck with your future and I hope I run into you around Agnes... yeah I play around the same hills you do. I'd love to meet a guy who solos 5th class stuff... a real mountan man.

I was working on a book about George Mallory and Sandy Irvine but I might put that on holf for a book about you.


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## doublet

Get the Dawson guidebook for beta. The beta in there will tell you to wait until spring too.

People are bc skiing all over, but the smart ones are staying on mellow slopes below about 32 degrees. I'd think about a mid-winter Grey's/Torrey's attempt when the CAIC lists the danger at moderate above treeline, but not today and definitely not with a stranger.

Regarding the E. Vail slides: that area may be close to the resort, but that terrain is every bit as gnarly as the bc elsewhere in the state. I was skiing out there on Sunday and I was pretty creeped out by the number of natural slides I saw. Don't assume that because those lines are close to a resort that they are any safer.

I wouldn't really trust the "gut feelings" of "some dude I met on the internet". I DO trust the CAIC, snowpits and group of strong, confident ski partners I've had for years.

See you on the Tuning Fork & Dead Dog in April.

T


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## iliketohike

my comments about soloing rock only are to say that death is close... I'm more afraid of avalanches then a sunny day on some low 5th class climb solo. But again I'm spinning out. 

Rmpede, thanks for your concern. based on your lengthy response I can't fault you for caring. And about camping, I have 4 weekends since Christmas. The snow pack is sketchy. They dropped like a ton of bombs at Aspen Bowl the other day, and I can obviously see why. 

I do have people to ski with. Looking for more, particularly weekend warrior types, cause I can't rock midweek. Most of the people I know ski off of sleds. Most of the people I know ski midweek. Most are not climbers. 

I bummed you can't go too rmpede. I wouldn't mind a good trip leader. You could carry the stove and food, and put my crampons on for me. Are you for hire? I'd also like someone to drive for me... Look man I'm glad you care, seriously.


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## Waterwindpowderrock

You have to keep in mind, those of us who DO spend our days out there in the BC see douchebags galore who are probably pretty close to being competent, but not quite. I had a guy who I had seen in my backyard many times set off a slide right as I was telling his group maybe 3 people on one face was a bad idea, he buried a friend & found out none of them had beacons (I was the only one that went to dig him out, his buddies ran away). I thought since he spent as much time up there as he did he would know his sh*t, nope.

There are MANY (MANY,MANY) people in this state who have the ability to ride grey's/Torrey's mid winter, but finding ONE guy who I'd trust to run that type of terrain with is a tough search. If you want to find the type of folks who will run that stuff with you, if they say yes without meeting you, they're not the people you want with you!


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## iliketohike

because I am normally a solist, perhaps due to my abrasive personality, my theory is a few somebodies is better than nobody. 

There are people out there that are retarded, yes. Often these typese try to come off as though they are experts. It happens in all sports, but ours is dangerous and, like climbing, one in which we do DEPEND on our partners. It seems my huberous is taken as such. 

But I do not need to beat people down to lift myself up, and in this literal forum, I will give people the benifit of the doubt. So I do not need to tell someone with ambition, I do not know, they are irresponsible and going to die. I appreciate the warnings, I'm not going this week. My post did not set a date. Perhaps because of a changing snow pack and weather conditions... was that an accident...???

I'm growing tired with these forums. All I am trying to do is reach out to people to find partners. I'm not looking for online battles. I thought my story about the aboloni divers paid omage to those giving advice. Perhaps y'all thought I was saying I was a gaper, I dunno, but I wasn't. 

Like I said before, I'd rather be the old fart going with the newbies as a protector than take the role of someone telling others not to go at all, because I am core and better.

Anyone want to fire up The Magic Line on K2 next month. No experience neccessary!


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## Waterwindpowderrock

If you took offence to my post, I just want to say I meant only to say that I find it best to get to know a BC partner for a while before you put it on the line with them. That said, my first time with one of my buddies was Dead dog in oct a few years ago, he was my best bc partner's other bc partner & he said he trusted him with his life & then some, so of we went. EPIC DAY.

You think it's bad on here?? Go check out TGR, I stop by once or twice a year just to laugh at the d*ckwavers & holier than thou's, this forum is cordial & touchy-feely in comparison.

Find a few guys to run berthoud with, then decide who you want to trust with your life.

So, K2 huh? What's airfare this time of year? Can you get the avy forecast on CAIC? I'm there!


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## iliketohike

no offense taking man. You're cool. rmpede just needs to get down from the pulpit. 

airfare is cheap, but travel through pakistan is sketchy. CAIC says the conditions are extreme on all faces, elevations, the snow pack is rotten, and to stay indoors and pay you electric bill.


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## iliketohike

sunshine on my shoulders makes me happy 
Sunshine almost always makes me high

Things are settling...


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## Waterwindpowderrock

iliketohike said:


> sunshine on my shoulders makes me happy
> Sunshine almost always makes me high
> 
> Things are settling...



really?

Front Range - Colorado Avalanche Information Center


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## iliketohike

yes. I see a marked improvement from the 8th of Febuary till now. more so here than there, but definitely for sure. 

Salutations!


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## Waterwindpowderrock

iliketohike said:


> yes. I see a marked improvement from the 8th of Febuary till now. more so here than there, but definitely for sure.
> 
> Salutations!



Steamboat - Colorado Avalanche Information Center

Still high here too! After the warm weather we had in boat today I can see what you're thinking, but it only got up to 36 at RE today, just enough to make a slide even more dangerous. (I live in Boat mon-thurs) The layers that are a problem are a ways down now, they'll take a while to honestly be settled. (no pulpit here, just info!)


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## rmpeddie

*from the pulpit*

Thanks for observing the fact that I'm on a soapbox... kind of funny. I'm always the quiet soft spoken one in our group but when I get a spur it's usually a good one. 

ILTH: There is just something about the way you write and choose your words that just gets my blood going a bit. I really took offense to your "despise" comment. Maybe I am speaking from a soapbox but how many guys have died seeing your face as their last? Or hearing your words as their last? It is haunting. I just can't explain what it's like to tell someones loved one their last words. Maybe I took it a bit too far but it seems that a few guys around here are agreeing with me. Kalebs story about the guys getting warned, then setting it off, then getting buried is a perfect example of the people we run into. Not all the time but too often people get themselves into trouble before they realize it... even when someone warns them. You probably know the last thing the red-neck said before he died... we all do. I'm not saying this will happen to you. It sounds like you've got plenty experience and common sense. 

I admitted that I went a little overboard with the guide thing but was having too much fun writing and didn't feel like erasing it. I was being very sarcastic and wasn't so proud of it after it was posted. I wasn't trying to be-little you. 

So here we are. Your still looking for the weekend warriors to hang out with. If you get over here to Berthoud I will go touring with you any day of your choosing. If we get along I'd have no problems going with you on Torres. I was just down there checking it out myself. Who knows maybe we can meet Kaleb (windwaterrockpowder) over at Jones Pass. There's a great little section called the "v-spot" between Butler Gulch and Jones Pass. I'll bring the peace pipe and offerings.

That bit about carrying someone down the NE ridge... I havn't spoken about for almost 6 years. It was hard telling two guys who paid 75,000 that they weren't going to ring the summit bell because we were concerned with two strangers. Take me for wHat you want. I'm not trying to sound holier than thou. I just feel like I have some good input when it comes to playing in the mountains.

My offer stands all year. I start work the 28th of Febuary in Casper but will have most of March to play. It gets a bit crazy in April and May but I'll need a break and will be willing to meet you somewhere. Just let me know what you think. We are planning a Northwest Volcano ski-tour this Spring also so if your interested come play for a few weeks to see if you fit in. Looking at Rainier, Shuksan, Baker and maybe a few other hills in the northern cascades. The snow should be good till late summer around Jackson so if you wanted to do something in the Tetons let me know. Another good contact is Icebox Mountain Sports in Fraser Co. The tech there is pretty much omnipotent and will be able to stear you in the right direction.


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## rmpeddie

(I'm growing tired with these forums. All I am trying to do is reach out to people to find partners. I'm not looking for online battles. I thought my story about the aboloni divers paid omage to those giving advice. Perhaps y'all thought I was saying I was a gaper, I dunno, but I wasn't.)


(As for the rest of y'all I appreciate the conern, but really despise the lack of specific beta. You guys are like the crew that sit at the put in of a 5th + class drop telling the dude about to drop it how sketchy it is, while you have no intention of dropping it yourself cause you dropped something else upstream. That's fine, but if your going to do something why not run safety at the bottom of the drop.)

This is exactly the issue I have with your writing and why I blew a bit. You claim you pay omage to those giving advice, and at the same time you say that you despise the lack of advice or "beta" they give you, then play them off as posers or something. 

Which is it. 

I don't think of you as a gaper nor does your writing lend itself to that thought.


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## Ed Hansen

might I suggest the forum at 14ers.com - Home of Colorado's Fourteeners and High Peaks
you might have better luck finding people to hike mountains on a mountain climbing forum that you would on a whitewater forum.

Sure, there are a few people here that like to hike/winter bc, but LOTS of people there do.


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## iliketohike

thanks, 14ers.com has excellent beta. I have a few partners for this one already. 

Rmpede: The first time I skied steamboat resort I hiked from fish creek falls to pony alone. When I got to whoopi ridge, which was not on the map, I asked where I was. The person angerly told me I was on the trail of certain death. I flipped out. I got my topo out and showed the person where I was within a quarter mile. The season before I was on much different terrain around Banff. The person assumed I was a novice and apologized when he realized my skill level. I skied that day all day for free. 

Another time I was working in a hikers information center. A French Canadian came in and outline a 35-40 mile day hike loop on the map. I asked him if he was familiar with the scale of the map. He said yes. I started to explain that the hike we was about to set out on was extremely ambitious. After some talking he explained he was training for Eco Challenge. 

Let's not project our own limitations or comfort levels on others too harshly...

As for getting out with you, as long as all this is in the past I'd love to. I haven't ever skied Berthoud, but I have skied Teton pass a few times. Sounds like a good invation.


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## iliketohike

I named my dog after the late Alex Lowe. If he could die in one anyone could. I'm terrified of them, and have turned around my fair share of times. 

I spend most of the summer at Rifle, learning to climb hard. I'd like to ski the Southwest Coloir of Middle Teton and the Northwest of South. I've climbed them in late october. I've skied Teton pass a few times and have a place to stay in Victor. 'I want to climb the Grand and the GRand traverse, but haven't yet found a partner up for it that can swap leads with me. I've never skied Berthoud, but I'd love to. I injured my ankle a few weeks ago and have been getting it back. I skied this weekend and it was ok, and have been hiking all the while, but I can't quite open up like I like to. 

I grew up in the Adirondacks and learned to plug gear and ski backcountry there. The snow is generally stable but we lost one to a slide even still. 

My dream is after I am done with my 4 year degree (I'm 25 and half way done with it) to go through the complete AMGA courses and guide on big mountains. I train 5 days a week with that goal in the back of my mind. I don't want to be a top rope guide. I would like to join the IFMGA and spend my 30's traveling and guiding.


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## jbarnow

I skied La Plata yesterday and conditions were pretty sketchy to say the least. There was a huge natural release on one of the smaller peaks in the gorge and a couple other little ones. The snow was so variable it was very difficult to access where the problem areas were. It'd go from super hard snow to soft slab mania back to hard to primo pow pow...careful out there.


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