# Rope lost in lower kirsch



## mbannister (May 19, 2006)

While trying to remove the red boat pinned in the kirsch run-out a fully deployed rope was lost. Rope vanished. Last seen spot was about 1/2 way down the Kirsh run-out about 2/3's of the way to the left. The boats out of the river now, but theres now a rope.


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## ~Bank (Jul 31, 2010)

What The Fuck? 4 ropes lost in K-Baum this season. This is fucking stupid. Keep your ropes attached to something so you don't kill sombody.


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## JDHOG72 (Jul 18, 2007)

Stop losing ropes but if you do please continue to report them so at least we know where we might get fucked.


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## KSC (Oct 22, 2003)

Yeah, no shit. Kirshbaum is the perfect rapid for a rope to kill someone in. 4 ropes in a season is beyond ridiculous - hell those are just the ones people were good enough to report. If you can't hold onto your rope leave it at home. I'm basically considering that rapid a no swim, non flip rapid for the foreseeable future, and comforted to know that Brian will probably be probing it before I do as the water comes down - though I really need to keep him around to run Gore with in the future.


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## CBrown (Oct 28, 2004)

Everyone remember to carry your knife. Be ready to use it as well. I have been tangled in a rope before and cutting the rope was the only option of escape. 

With all the rope down there, folks should try to stay in tighter groups through the end of the run. I know I am guilty of starting to charge out there at the end seeking the cold beer at the takeout. When the shit hits the fan, it sure is nice having your buddy in ear shot.


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## deepsouthpaddler (Apr 14, 2004)

Thanks for posting the info Mike. While lost ropes are a bad thing, I don't think we should beat up people too much when posting... if we do, people just won't post in the future for fear of an internet beatdown, and then we will never know.

To all those that have lost ropes... consider it your civic duty to look for the ropes at low water. Consider hiking in from the bottom when flows are low to see what you can find. Its a short hike up to kirschbaum from pumphouse, bring some drygear, pfd, knife, helmet etc and try to get out what you can.

I think the 400-500 cfs off season crew needs to scour k-bomb for ropes this fall or next spring too. Biggest problem I see is that flows will likely run relatively high until the snow flies this year, and the banks will be filled with snow next April making things difficult to find ropes.

If I recall correctly, the fatality in kirschbaum in the early 2000's was suspected to have a rope involved.

Another thing to consider is that every time you use a rope you run a chance of losing it. If more boaters treated ropes like climbers (double check, backup, think out the plan etc) we'd probably have less ropes in the river.


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## chepora (Feb 6, 2008)

Great post Deep South!


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## ~Bank (Jul 31, 2010)

I'm not trying to beat anyone up over the lost ropes. I'm sure it was an accident. Thanks for posting the hazards. Kirshbaum's is one of my favorite rapids, I hate knowing that there might be so many ropes in there. We went through there a couple times today and didn't see anything.


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## Dodger7777 (Sep 12, 2011)

Deep South has the right response. Thanks for the post Bannister.


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## KSC (Oct 22, 2003)

From the accident report, the death in Kirshbaum was more than just suspected rope involvement. It was quite clearly the result of a rope in the water. Read it here:
American Whitewater - riverpage-visitor

That's why this kind of thing is so serious. I know that shit happens, but 4 ropes in one season in probably one of the worst spots not just in Gore but perhaps in all of Colorado, points to people being careless. What if your rope was the one that killed someone in 2000? That's the kind of respect you should be paying to your rope. I'm not blaming anyone or discouraging anyone from posting, but it makes me wonder how seriously people are taking their rescues. I heard that one rope was lost because someone had to dive in after what they thought was an unconscious victim. I can understand losing a rope in a situation like that, but there also needs to be due negligence finding it and getting it out as the water drops. And nobody should ever be putting on without their rope clipped into their boat and their bag securely closed.

On a more positive note, the weather and flows on Gore right now are superb for October.


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## rockinRio (Jul 3, 2006)

A point of clarification, the rope was lost while trying to extract the pinned boat, that was a hazard itself. Pinned cockpit upstream in the middle of the river, basically submerged. We had live bait on a rock just down stream of the pin and we were attempting to set up a rope to the other side of the river.

A boat was trying to get the rope to the live bait. It was attached to the paddler's vest. He tossed it to the live bait from the eddy. Live bait missed the bag and it deployed down stream. The paddler tried hard to retrieve it. He had no choice but to release his vest as it was pulling him out. Then he tried to follow it down stream, he was flipped over and swam.

I know we all looked for the rope once we extracted the boat.

It sucks, and none of us are happy that we created another hazard removing one.

I just wanted everyone to know it wasn't due to a swim and an unattached rope bag. This was in an effort to remove a hazard.


I think going back up the canyon when (if) the water drops is a good idea and I offer to be a part of a crew to go in.

FYI: We found a friend's paddle that was lost last weekend, lodged under a rock at the extraction site. There is a ton of gear in that river.


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## skisotope (Jun 1, 2009)

Thanks for the clarification. I haven't had time to post on this yet, but it was my boat in the river and my fault the situation existed in the first place. I'd like to first say that everyone who helped on saturday did an amazing job under the circumstances and I am very grateful for all they did. The Z-drag worked but required all 5 of us on that side of the river to actually pull it out, so there's no way I could have done that without you guys. The boat was destroyed, tacoed on the rock, so I had to carry/drag it out, which prolonged the day and meant that everyone was gone by the time I made it to pumphouse. I wanted to thank each of you personally and buy everyone beers, but the situation on saturday didn't permit it. I owe you guys BIG TIME, and would really like to return the favor whenever I can. I don't know the mbuzz handle of the guy who lost the rope, but if you PM me I'd be happy to order you the rope of your choice and have it shipped direct to you.
The discussion following this incident and the lost rope has been interesting with respect to the possibility of introducing a new hazard in an effort to remove the original hazard. The position of the pinned boat definitely made it a hazard for swimmers or paddlers working their way through the bottom of Kirchbaum's, so I'm glad it's out even if it's destroyed, but now there's a mystery rope somewhere on the bottom (presumably) downstream of the pin spot. I will definitely try to make it up there once the water drops to see if it can be removed. At any rate, the situation was not good all around, so if you feel the need to direct some frustration or ire toward those involved due to the outcome, direct it at me as I am ultimately the one responsible for it. Please be extra careful and alert out there, especially in Kirchbaum's, and thanks again extraction crew, you guys are top notch.


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## jennifer (Oct 14, 2003)

Personally, I'd much rather have to boof off a bit of plastic in the river than be tangled in a rope under the water or strangled in flip. At least with the plastic, you have a fair chance of survival since navigating around it should be within most boaters' ability who are running Gore. The rope problem is a bit of a crap shoot, isn't it? Regardless, it is good to post so people will be aware.


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## rockinRio (Jul 3, 2006)

jennifer said:


> Personally, I'd much rather have to boof off a bit of plastic in the river than be tangled in a rope under the water or strangled in flip. At least with the plastic, you have a fair chance of survival since navigating around it should be within most boaters' ability who are running Gore. The rope problem is a bit of a crap shoot, isn't it? Regardless, it is good to post so people will be aware.


Of course, had the river gods sat us down and given us a choice I doubt we would have picked the rope to leave.

We deal with what happened. It's not like we WANTED to leave the rope in exchange for the boat.

"Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth." - Mike Tyson


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## ACC (Oct 30, 2003)

jennifer said:


> Personally, I'd much rather have to boof off a bit of plastic in the river than be tangled in a rope under the water or strangled in flip. At least with the plastic, you have a fair chance of survival since navigating around it should be within most boaters' ability who are running Gore.


That is for sure. Especially when a boat is stuck hard with no one in it, everyone needs to keep a level head and execute the extraction in a cautious, careful manner.

Ropes are for real. Please do not drop them, let go of them, forget to clip them, throw the whole bag without holding the end, etc. As Kevin suggested, read this and you'll have the proper respect:



> Gore Canyon, a popular Class V run on the Upper Colorado, had not seen a fatality until this year. But in early August there were two deaths in two days! On August 1st, the date of the first accident, the river was running at a moderate 1120 cfs. _______, who was with the victim�s party but had decided to walk out, watched his group from the railroad bed as they attempted Kirschbaum Rapid. His description follows: A kayaker, running third in a group of four, ran a different chute and slammed into an underwater rope that had strung itself across a chute. He was violently peeled from his boat and forced to swim. The two paddlers below chased him and his gear. ________, 27, ran next. He, too, hit the rope hard. His boat floated free, but his body did not. _______�s group made an extensive search of the entire area, checking eddies and probing the upstream faces of rock. In the process they found a pinned kayak. Thinking that their friend could have been pinned underneath it, they pulled it free using a Z-drag. They found nothing. Eventually they paddled out and notified authorities. Rescuers began a search early the next morning, and ______�s body was found miles downstream, near the takeout. His helmet had been torn off and he had a serious head wound. This is not the first death resulting from an abandoned throw rope in the river. There was much speculation on Mountainbuzz.com about the source of the rope. Apparently it had nothing to do with the pinned kayak. Fortunately, a group of boaters who ran the river later were able to remove this hazard. *If your rope becomes snagged, spare no efforts to remove it. *The rope can be cut very close to the point of entanglement and left in place as a last resort.


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## freexbiker (Jul 18, 2005)

Any word on Ropes in Kirsch still? Water is down to 990 range.


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## Cphilli (Jun 10, 2010)

Didn't see anything today.


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## freexbiker (Jul 18, 2005)

good to know. Just hoping not to get cloths lined....


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