# Is the Royal Gorge or Numbers harder at high flows?



## Ed Hansen (Oct 12, 2003)

I have been running the Royal Gorge nearly daily since late May, (EZG50). I also used to live in Buena Vista for two years and used to run that nearly as often, (BigEZ), from above Pine Creek to below #5 usually so I could get an easy hitch-hike back up to my truck on the highway. 

I ran the numbers on Saturday starting at the stealth put-in @ about 3750 cfs and I was on constant guard for the next big hole to negotiate, which were many. It has been eight years since I ran it regularly, but I still get up there every year and still know the lines pretty well. I didn't play at all because it was a solo run, late afternoon, and I was filming with a helmet-cam and just wanted to film the whole run in one shot.

I say all of that to give my opinion some perspective. 

In my opinion, the Royal Gorge is easier to run. 

The numbers is a constant sh&#-show coming at you with holes and haystack waves seemingly haphazardly strewn about. The river channel through the Royal Gorge is wider and only a hand full of holes that want to eat you, and those can almost be seen far ahead. The one exeption is Boat eater hole. It is a deep ledge hole at this level, but if you know to stay in the right half of the river, then you are good.

On the numbers, my usual tactic of boat scouting the next wave as I crest the top of each wave wasn't working on the numbers the other day because of the wave-top most often crashing down on me. I had several "Oh-sh&#!" moments slipping past the edge of a mean chunder hole that I only saw three or four paddle strokes ago. 

I would have to scout the next three or four waves just in case that was the last view I got for a while. Several times I would come off one wave, only to find the next was actaully an ugly hole. I never have that problem in the Gorge wave trains because there really are no ugly hidden holes hidden like that. Most of those are washed out and just big crashers. Bird drop is a good example. As well as Rushmore and Squeezebox. Just big waves that lead to the biggest wave at the end. Sunshine is like this too. The bottom hole follows some big waves and at these levels is really just a giant V-wave with one or two follow ups. Not holes that will keep you.

If you decide to get in the Gorge, let me know. I'm a Cañon City local and can show you the lines most any day.

Ed


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## cmack (Oct 15, 2006)

Man... this is a tough question to answer really. I personally think it all boils down to what level of kayaker we are talking about and perhaps more importantly, what you thought of the runs when you did them at low water. 

I kind of agree with Ed... but the best beta I can give you is this: If you are a confident paddler who is experienced with big water, you may find the Gorge easier and much more fun when it is high. If you were gripped or even a tiny bit stressed at low water (1000cfs or below), then you are going to shit your pants at these flows. 

The Numbers is pretty much the same story. If you ran the Numbers at 700cfs and thought it was exciting, you should be prepared to clean human waste out of your boat at the end of the run. 

All this said, the Gorge at any flow 3200 or higher is a fantastic Big Water fun run that should not be missed, and the Numbers at high flow is awesome too.


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## blutzski (Mar 31, 2004)

At high water:
Numbers = More difficult
Gorge = More fun


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## Tannhauser (Jul 7, 2010)

Gorge is slightly easier than the numbers at high flows....However -
If you don't like the looks of things in the numbers it is easy to scout / walk / call it a day as it is roadside.

Scouting / portaging in the gorge is not as easy and while you can walk the tracks out of the gorge it is (i believe) illegal and frowned upon.


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## mjpowhound (May 5, 2006)

blutzski said:


> At high water:
> Numbers = More difficult
> Gorge = More fun


This.


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## Ed Hansen (Oct 12, 2003)

blutzski said:


> At high water:
> Numbers = More difficult
> Gorge = More fun


that is a good way of saying it. 

and the only tough thing to scout in the Gorge is the narrows really, but the key is to just stay in the center. 


also, The railroad guys don't really hassle you much if you are in real trouble. I know of one guy this year that they did tell him he was trespassing when he swam. (It was the idiot driving the "follow behind fire patrol truck", not the train crew who just waved). I talked to one of the managers at the train company who said all railroad crew are considered first responders for any accidents since they have eyes on the river and SHOULD be asking if you are okay, not giving people a hard time. She said she would bring it up at a meeting a few days later. Anyway, they are supposed to treat you different if you are someone in wet boating gear chasing a boat as opposed to someone wearing jeans, holding a fishing pole walking down the tracks. 

Just stay way off to the side when the train and follower truck pass by, then get back to your business of getting off the tracks ASAP via getting to your boat downstream, even if it means running next to the tracks. If you are in real trouble or injured, they are supposed to stop and help evac the injured.


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## blutzski (Mar 31, 2004)

Ed Hansen said:


> If you decide to get in the Gorge, let me know. I'm a Cañon City local and can show you the lines most any day.


Definitely take Ed up on his offer. He knows where the holes are so you can gut the rest of the big stuff. Otherwise, if you're not sure where the holes are, you'll find yourself cheating it a bit to the side and miss alot of the action.


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## NathanH. (Mar 17, 2010)

I agree with what's been said here mostly.

The gorge is my home town run as well but I have ran the numbers just as many times because it's my favorite.

If you ask me the gorge is a lot easier due to the lack of holes when compared to the numbers. What you have to account for is the other shit in the gorge like an undercut cliff wall and the I-Beams in the river.

The numbers has a lot of ledge style holes at high water but doesn't have garbage like the Gorge in the river.

I'd say the numbers is more fun because it takes 30 minutes at high water and you can run a multitude of laps pretty easily.

Either way both are great big water runs.


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## Theophilus (Mar 11, 2008)

For sure boat it with Ed. He's the King of the Gorge.


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## gh (Oct 13, 2003)

King Gorge the IVth.


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## stubby (Oct 13, 2003)

Just ran the numbers today at 3600. Awesome big water fun, and I didn't think it was too stressful and I didn't really know the lines at all, but was with a crew that did. Just like Ed said, there are a bunch of sneaky holes that can get ya if you're not looking downstream quite a few waves...no Royal Gorge comparison for ya, but it sounds like there's consensus.


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## Jahve (Oct 31, 2003)

At flows of this nature - imo the Gorge is the easier of the two runs. 

They are both great runs and worth the drive but the #'s is just so much more continuous as many of the rapids kinda melt together at these levels. There is still breaks in between the rapids in the gorge. 

As far as the fun factor - plenty of big waves in the Gorge but as not much great play as the numbers offers.. 

It is fair to say that right now the #'s is a world class play run. With literally so many surf and play spots that it is hard to get them all in. Add in piney in playboats at 3500cfs and again #'s get the nod as there is nothing even close to as challenging as piney down in the gorge. 

So I would say that the #'s is the more challenging and if you like to surf big waves / holes the #'s has a much higher fun factor.. Yea skipping down a 6' tall - totally green wave at 1 & 1/2 last night did not suck .

Dont get me wrong the gorge is still super fun and worth a evening paddle. But in a kayak the #'s is hard to beat right now.


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## Ed Hansen (Oct 12, 2003)

Theophilus said:


> For sure boat it with Ed. He's the King of the Gorge.


shhhh! Don't tell anyone that I have swam out of just about every one of the rapids down there over the years. ----No swims this year..... yet.


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## klund (May 10, 2009)

I stopped by the numbers on Sat. on my way from Salida to Denver just to check it out. Was talking to some old couple at #6 who had been sitting by the river all day. They said they had only seen a single raft go buy all day. Then out of the blue comes a lone kayaker in what looked to be a playboat with a gopro helmet on his head. Must have been you Ed... Gotta say, you looked pretty relaxed going through 6!


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## Izza (Jul 20, 2005)

Ed - looking to get out on Royal Gorge anytime. Sent you a pm - let me next time you will be out there and I will try to be there.


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## G_reg (Dec 22, 2008)

Agree with everything that has been said. Plus, a huge strainer on the irrigation ditch in #4 could spice things up. I posted some info about it in the safety forum. BTW, the numbers right now is AMAZING!!!


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## Ed Hansen (Oct 12, 2003)

klund said:


> I stopped by the numbers on Sat. on my way from Salida to Denver just to check it out. Was talking to some old couple at #6 who had been sitting by the river all day. They said they had only seen a single raft go buy all day. Then out of the blue comes a lone kayaker in what looked to be a playboat with a gopro helmet on his head. Must have been you Ed... Gotta say, you looked pretty relaxed going through 6!


That may have been me. I didn't see any other boat on the water and I did have a helmet cam. (VIO-POV) I wish it was a GoPro. They are better. 

About that cam..... the wide angle tends to reduce the waves on screen, but it still looks HUGE when viewed on the computer later.


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