# Pins and clips vs oar locks and oar rights



## AlanS (Jun 18, 2015)

Pins and clips
Prevent your oars from ever rotating, which ensures perpendicular blade pitch every stroke. Less thinking, more rowing. With stirrups, your oars stay put pretty well in a flip, mostly. Stout. If you hit a rock with an oar blade, the clips can pop off the pins, which can be a pain to deal with.

Open oarlocks with oar-rights
Allow you to ship your oars. When oars are shipped a little bit, you can rotate them, and feather kinda somewhat. When fully extended, you still maintain your blades perpendicular to the water. If you hit a rock with an oarblade, the oar will spin, but the oar-right won't, so it's easier to chip/break a blade, or it can misalign the oar-right by twisting it on the shaft. Which is far more of a pain to deal with than a clip that's popped off.

Open oarlocks, no oar-rights
Allow you to ship and feather your oars, actions which can be interpreted either as achieving a sublime state of efficiency and grace, or, more likely, showing off. If you hit a rock with an oar blade, the oar spins in the oarlock, helping to prevent breakage (sometimes). Not always the best choice for your dental work.

I used open locks and oar-rights for a long time, but eventually ditched the oar-rights, and I don't miss them at all. I find my rowing is easier and more efficient without them. Do whatever feels right to you, though.


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## treemanji (Jan 23, 2011)

Nice summary^^^^^This gets interesting, I wondered the same thing when I got a raft, I'd try all if you can go with what you like. I found that most open locks people love to go on and on and on and on about the benefits and the non open people don't really give a shit what other people prefer. I've seen all set ups on lots of rivers.


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## Sbishop (Jul 22, 2015)

Excellent reply. Pretty much what I was thinking. As in any other sport I'm involved in (biking, skiing) there are a lot of strong opinions but just roll with what makes you happy and have fun.


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## mattman (Jan 30, 2015)

If you go with pins and clips, get a stirrup made out of a stiff material, such as the carlson's, soft material such as nrs stirrups require you to pick up the oar and put it back in place with 2 hands every time you pop an oar on a rock, a major bummer when you are first learning. Some people make there own out of a strip of plastic barrel.


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## tanderson (Mar 26, 2010)

I row both pins/clips and oar locks. I still am not sure which I like better. Perhaps when I have more than 8 years under my belt, I will know. One thing I like about the pins/clips is that they act like oar-rights and have your blade ready for a pull. I have a friend that tried to learn rowing without oar-rights or pin/clips and had a tough time. When learning, I would either go pin/clips of oarlocks with oar-rights. 

tda


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## slickhorn (Dec 15, 2005)

it's hotly contested because most folks (I suspect) have obtained used gear, agnostic in this ecclesiastical debate, then come to love whatever they had. Then they harden into a stance. 

All of this stuff works and what matters when things go wrong is that you are dialed in and comfortable with your system, and that comes with time and river miles. 

No one has mentioned pro-loks yet, so maybe look over this thread: http://www.mountainbuzz.com/forums/f44/pro-loks-review-with-pics-48524.html

IMO they are the best solution.


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## elkhaven (Sep 11, 2013)

Good responses so far. You'll Find that it really depends on what your doing and what your preferences are. For me it's open locks and no rights. I'm not quite sure about higher enlightenment but being able to feather my oars is one of the most valuable attributes of my setup.

Below are links to recent discussions.

http://www.mountainbuzz.com/forums/f44/expert-boaters-running-oar-rights-poll-58719.html

http://www.mountainbuzz.com/forums/f44/expert-boaters-running-oar-rights-poll-58719.html

http://www.mountainbuzz.com/forums/f44/rope-wrap-vs-sleeves-58708.html

http://www.mountainbuzz.com/forums/f44/oar-length-questions-for-bad-shoulders-56050.html

Among others...

Pay special attention to the pro-lok discussion. If I were starting from scratch I'd definitely give them a hard look... They are almost the best of all worlds - if it were just easier to replace/remove and oar, I would have converted a year ago with out question. In fact I'm sure by the end of this winter I'll have a pair on my boat.


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## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

I use oar rights. It is what I learned with, but I also do not have the strength to boat the type of water I want to boat without them. Actually, I really can't even row flat water without them! LOL! Serious though, now I have joint issues and am greatful for the rights, I don't think I'd be doing much boating without them. I use posilockers which are closed oarlocks. I am not interested in the prolocks because of the plastic, I want my locks to be in place and operable even after a severe upside down run.


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## AlanS (Jun 18, 2015)

elkhaven said:


> ...I'm not quite sure about higher enlightenment but being able to feather my oars is one of the most valuable attributes of my setup...


Same here. I find my power strokes more powerful and efficient with feathering, so I tire less easily. In addition, being able to dynamically adjust the pitch of the oar blade helps me work with the current, and not to fight it so much.

I can say that I once rowed a boat with pins and clips through Cataract at high water, and while getting thoroughly thrashed in Big Drop 2, I was very grateful to have them.


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## Osprey (May 26, 2006)

One thing I didn't see here but probably was in all those other threads...convertible oar rights. Best of both worlds, especially if you want to learn to use open locks but want to do it more gradually. I find the more I use and get used to feathering the more I value it. When using oar rights and your oar is caught by a hard current under the water and you can't feather out of it it's jarring. 

the pro-locks are interesting and kind of work like the convertible oar-rights with probably a better range of motion, but like was mentioned I think, I row Sawyers and it would suck to deal with that screw every time just to use them.


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## rivers2run (Jun 7, 2012)

I use both, on big water trips like the grand I like the security of pins and clips on more technical rivers I prefer open oarlocks. I can't do a great deal of feathering because my wrists are pretty wracked with arthritis so I have oar rights. Both systems have their pros and cons, I don't understand why some have to become rabid advocates for one system over the other.


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## spider (Jun 20, 2011)

Just fill your boat with helium and never row a stroke!


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## salsasean (Apr 20, 2005)

I must say having spent many days on both as a commercial guide and private boater, i much prefer open oars, no oar rights, I like to feather my oars, I feel I can get more power as well and shipping them is easier. However, when I talk to my friends at Sierra Mac rafting who run Cherry Creek, they think open oars would be nuts up there. I haven't tried it but have seen it ran with open just fine.


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## jimr (Sep 8, 2007)

Pins and clips and oar locks are garbage training wheels for the weak. Go free and be free.


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## dfresh (May 19, 2010)

jimr said:


> Pins and clips and oar locks are garbage training wheels for the weak. Go free and be free.
> 
> 
> WOW, you must be a bad ass. Im guessing your forearms are HUGE from all that freedom. Either that, or from all that one man tug of war your doing with yourself.
> ...


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## jimr (Sep 8, 2007)

dfresh said:


> jimr said:
> 
> 
> > Pins and clips and oar locks are garbage training wheels for the weak. Go free and be free.
> ...


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## bucketboater (Jul 9, 2012)

jimr said:


> dfresh said:
> 
> 
> > Sorry I don't like being limited to the same crappy unadjustable stroke like yourself, nothing better than a left handed stranger stroke. you probably love hitting the gnar with these the freshest of the dfresh.
> ...


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## treemanji (Jan 23, 2011)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wqqNL96YDA
Pins and Clips worked for these guys. I knew it wouldn't be long til the open lock bad ass spoke up. Pro locks attract BIG fish.


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## slickhorn (Dec 15, 2005)

bucketboater said:


> jimr said:
> 
> 
> > Be honest, how much experience do you have running class 4-5? In the last ten years of boating class 5 rivers I have seen one boater with open locks. Glad they work for you but they are far from the norm in whitewater.
> ...


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## tango (Feb 1, 2006)

At the end of the day you're all still a bunch of sissy pants rafters who are into talking about these details more than going boating.

Except salsasean.




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## salsasean (Apr 20, 2005)

Thanks Tango, You make me feel tough and I'm happy to say I'll be both rafting and kayaking this weekend.


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## Brotorboat (Apr 14, 2009)

I don't even row anymore. Oars are for sinners and only help you prolong the inevitable. I launch and then pray to God. If you can't get make it down by the grace of God, then you're going to Hell.


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## zcollier (Jan 1, 2004)

*Article about Pins and Clips*

Most people love whatever they learn on and the best boaters can run anything. Try one oar lock and one pin and clip some time to really understand the difference!

Here's and article I wrote about the difference a few years ago: 

Oar Locks vs Pins and Clips | Northwest Rafting Company


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## Schutzie (Feb 5, 2013)

The oar locks I have always used had a heavy collar on the oar with a monster Pin that swiveled. The pin went into a pipe that was as hefty as the rest of the rig; I'll see if I can find a picture.

I liked the set up because the oar was never going to twist, and popping it out took major messuppery to accomplish. I think I popped one oar in 5 years.

The downside was, if you caught the oar on anything there was no give; actually the give was the oar and sure as anything you'd bust the oar or tear up the blade.

I've rowed pins and clips and locks and oar rights and rope wrapped around the frame and the oar when things got really weird.

I still like the rig I learned on. Oars are expensive to replace, but then feathering and shipping oars on the pigs I rowed was kind of like wearing ballet shoes on a hike.


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## Andy H. (Oct 13, 2003)

Brotorboat said:


> I don't even row anymore. Oars are for sinners and only help you prolong the inevitable. I launch and then pray to God. If you can't get make it down by the grace of God, then you're going to Hell.


Dude, I've been looking forward to getting on the river with you one of these days, now I know it'll be pretty entertaining too.

As for Pins and Clips vs Open vs Oar Rights and wrongs AlanS has a great summary. Not sure I've got any real facts but I learned with Oar Rights and that's what I'm comfortable with. I've known plenty of excellent boaters that rowed either open locks, oar rights, or with P&Cs. For me it's kind of like skiing telemark vs locking that heel down. Tele skiing is so much fun on the groomers, and in powder or any kind of great conditions, but when the day serves up breakable crust, or that chute you hiked all that way up to is icy and clouds just moved in, give me a beefy boot and locked heel. When I've just gotten tossed around in the boat, there's a must-make move seconds ahead, and I'm putting a popped (or spare) oar back in, I want that oar to grab some water on the first stroke without having to take my eyes off what's coming up, because those instants may be the difference between a flip and a fun & rowdy run.

I've never cared for P&Cs because of the sharp things so often associated with them (hose clamps, the clips, etc.). If I were running Class V, maybe I'd want them.

I'd like to get some of the convertible oar rights but am not too worried about it. 

Whatever you're comfortable with,

-AH


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## Paul7 (Aug 14, 2012)

I use oar locks but I was really impressed with the pro loks I saw Spider using. 

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## Rockgizmo (May 21, 2009)

Here's and idea to cover up the sharp edges on pins/clips. I used heat shrink 3" diameter, to cover up the pipe clamps. Found it on Ebay for cheap.


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## mike sweeney (Jun 1, 2015)

I have both, but run oar locks. Personally I hated pins and clips. I have two junk shoulders and shipping oars is less painful and injurious with locks then pins and clips. 

Let me tell you nothing like popping your shoulder out on a lunch stop bringing your oars in. Makes for a wonderful rest of the day.


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