# Bad weekend on the Payettes 2 drownings



## Andy H. (Oct 13, 2003)

I have sympathy for the victims and their families, however I have to ask why the media can't get something as simple as this correct:



> ...separate rafting accidents on the Payette River...


This is a raft:











This is not a raft:


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## Kimy (Jul 1, 2005)

I was there shortly after the woman's body was found, the male was indeed in an inner tube, the woman was rafting on what I recall was a cataraft. Can't comfirm if it was rented. I don't know too much more about their experience, though it was a single boat trip on the Class V section of NF Payette (oither drowning was Middle Fork). 
Rumors flying include kayakers who warned them strongly not to attempt the run. 
Very sad. 
And yeah condolences to the family. 

Kim J


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## Sidnye (Dec 9, 2003)

*Here is another article, check the comments after the story---*

http://www.nwcn.com/statenews/idaho/stories/NW_072609IDN-raft-accident-KS.7c06b3e4.html


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## Junk Show Tours (Mar 11, 2008)

Sidnye said:


> http://www.nwcn.com/statenews/idaho/stories/NW_072609IDN-raft-accident-KS.7c06b3e4.html


Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe to get to the put in you drive right along the NF the whole way and would be able to see what you're about to raft. I've only driven that road once and its been four or five years, but I recall taking a look at the NF as I drove along and thinking that it was beyond my ability. Is it possible that they thought they were on the SF Payette?


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## AndrewC (Jul 6, 2008)

The most significant comment from that article, from the husband of the victim:



> Thank you for your condolences. I just wanted to add a few details to this tragedy to help other people understand. Everyone was wearing life jackets. Sharon had river rafted many times. All on the raft except two had experience. The river was recommended by other local people. The store where we rented the raft told us nothing about the danger while he fitted us with life jackets, and didn’t even suggest we wear helmets. There were no signs classifying the river as IV or V level posted anywhere to warn us. Had we been given that information, we would have not taken the chance. The Sheriff even commented that they need to mark the river because of the number of deaths that occur. Unfortunately, there was a man from Salt Lake City who drowned just 15 minuets later on another part of the river. We entered the river on a calmer section, but once we hit that first rapid that threw my wife, one of my daughters, and two male cousins out, we knew we needed to get out, but it was too late. We were able to get my daughter and cousins back in the raft, but not my wife. It could have been much worst. But it is bad enough. Thank you all again for your comments. God bless us all.


I've got to wonder how clearly they communicated where they were going, or if they put on somewhere other than they intended. There's no way a rental company would have failed to warn them about running that stretch of river.

What a horrible situation.


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## Skyman (Jun 26, 2006)

AndrewC said:


> The most significant comment from that article, from the husband of the victim:
> 
> I've got to wonder how clearly they communicated where they were going, or if they put on somewhere other than they intended. There's no way a rental company would have failed to warn them about running that stretch of river.
> 
> What a horrible situation.


I wondered the same thing. I wonder if they were really wanting to do the Cabarton? That is still the North Fork, correct? They are very lucky no one else was killed or injured.

Skyman


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## FrankC (Jul 8, 2008)

AndrewC said:


> The most significant comment from that article, from the husband of the victim:
> 
> I've got to wonder how clearly they communicated where they were going, or if they put on somewhere other than they intended. There's no way a rental company would have failed to warn them about running that stretch of river.
> 
> What a horrible situation.


Rental companies would probably be expecting you to raft the Main Payette starting at the confluence of the North Fork and the South Fork Payette. This section is class II-III and relatively safe. I bet these folks mistakenly put-on on the North Fork Payette which is class V.


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## AndrewC (Jul 6, 2008)

Or were planning on running the Staircase section of the South Fork, and didn't turn right at Banks. It's a class IV run, and still not appropriate for inexperienced boaters, but that doesn't stop some of them from running it.


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## stb (Mar 11, 2007)

i was up there and as we were coming down an officer called us over, so we split and went looking. We quickly ran down scanning the banks, and the two after us found her body as they were making a more fine tooth search. She was in a log jam in one of the islands after otters. 

Even driving up to where they put in you pass crunch and juicer. There is no way to miss it. i can't believe what they were thinking putting on. Sucks, but what can you do. People told them not to put on, you drive right pass two big rapids and like a mile of constant class IV run out. How clearer it can be spelled out, i dont know. Condolences, for sure. But, realistically, it should have been way worse - 10 people on a raft on the north fork.


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## rivermanryan (Oct 30, 2003)

Did I read that correctly, 10 people in 1 raft? Surely not a cataraft. Sad.


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## Kimy (Jul 1, 2005)

Thanks STB for saying what I was thinking. I was nearby the family as the Sheriff confirmed finding her body, ...very emotional, still haunts me.
But yeah, what can you do? Not sure signage works..the Kern has very blunt signs along a similar highway where there is some Class V water (in English & Spanish), and even a body counter, but still there are drownings each year from people who lack the ability and equipment for Class V water. 
KJ 

From STB 
Even driving up to where they put in you pass crunch and juicer. There is no way to miss it. i can't believe what they were thinking putting on. Sucks, but what can you do. People told them not to put on, you drive right pass two big rapids and like a mile of constant class IV run out. How clearer it can be spelled out, i dont know. Condolences, for sure. But, realistically, it should have been way worse - 10 people on a raft on the north fork.[/quote]


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## whatthechuck (Jul 28, 2009)

*Comments setting up the lawsuit*



FrankC said:


> Rental companies would probably be expecting you to raft the Main Payette starting at the confluence of the North Fork and the South Fork Payette. This section is class II-III and relatively safe. I bet these folks mistakenly put-on on the North Fork Payette which is class V.


I read the comment by the unfortunate husband, and while I send condolences to the family, either the individual is having a very difficult time dealing with their responsibility for the incident, or they are setting up their strategy for a lawsuit against the raft rental outfit.

Any raft rental occurs either inside Boise, or on the road along the Main Payette. Once one arrives at Banks, there's nothing but National Forest up Idaho 55 along the N. Payette. Additionally, the road is basically pinned up against the cliff, with a clear sight down into Juicer and Krunch, which both are clearly Class V at 2000 cfs.

Otter Slide rapid is somewhat hidden from view -- the road goes up and around a bench where IIRC (it's been a couple of years since I've run the NF) you can drive down to the river. It's not long from Otter Slide to the lower rapids, though, and there is no feasible trip that one can take that DOESN'T include running both, as there is no real accessible take-out for a raft until you get down to the Main.

It is a sad, unfortunate event, and I do indeed send my condolences. But the inability to take responsibility, while actively trying to blame the sheriff and raft rental outfit, does not sit well with me.


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## cemartin (Oct 11, 2003)

My condollences to the familes. I live within a mile of where the inner tube accident occurred. With all of the tubers hitting that calm section of river, it's bound to happen. The log comes up real quick for inner tubers. I wish we could get the thing out, but it's simply too dangerous.


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## mania (Oct 21, 2003)

New article with TERRIBLE advice

Woman drowns on section of Payette River where many experts won't go | News Updates | Idaho Statesman

FTA



> • When swimming, lay on your back with your feet pointed downstream and do a backstroke. Your feet can be used to push off rocks or away from logs.
> 
> • To get out of the water quickly, do a backstroke at an angle against the current toward the bank. The angling action will move you faster toward the bank.


WRONG! when swimming - swim your ass to shore using a crawlstroke. It's time to end feet first.


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## mania (Oct 21, 2003)

Here is what I sent to the authors



> Dear Pete and Katy,
> 
> I don't know where you got your advice, quoted here:
> 
> ...


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## Kathy (Jun 1, 2009)

Here is some additional information:

The Barclay Family

I am including some of the relevant excerpts below:

"They got up there rented a raft and some life jackets from some random rental place. They didn't think they needed a guide because they have all been rafting before. So they drove up to the river where everyone was putting in at this place called Banks. However it was really crowded so they drove just up the rode a tiny bit and put in further up. 

Well they weren't in the boat 5 minutes before they hit a huge rapid and it threw the whole back half of the boat out into the river. Josh fell out along with Jake and Sharon (Rick's wife). Jake and Sharon were holding on to each other and the boat until Jake was hit in the knee by a big rock and lost his grip on everything. Then Sharon lost her grip on the boat. Meanwhile everyone in the boat was trying to sit back up and grab the ores and get everyone back in the boat but until they realize that Sharon has floated a good 20 feet away. 

The river was calm here though, so they weren't really scared for her and they kept telling her to turn around, face downstream and swim to the shore. But she just held on to her life jacket and floated. She didn't try to swim or anything. She wasn't scared she just looked like she was enjoying floating.

Well after a second the boat gets stuck on a big rock at the tip of an island and while they are trying to get off the rock Sharon floats down one side of the island and when they finally get off the rock they get sent down the other side. So they stop the raft on the shore because they thought for sure that she would have gotten out on the island. They call her and they don't hear anything so then they jump back in the boat to see if she kept floating down the river and they get sent into this huge set of rapids where Jared falls out and was under water for about a minute. Once they get out of that they are pretty worried because if Sharon went through that she would be in trouble.


So they pull off on the shore and start searching for her and running for help. Some kayakers jumped right in and start looking for her and pretty soon there are around 5o-100 people looking for her. It took an hour and a half to find her. We think she must have floated backward and hit her head on a log and then the log's current pulled her under and she drowned. 


It was horrible. When her husband found out he passed out and hit his head on the cement. She was 48 years old and has 3 girls and 1 boy ranging from 12 to 24. Her husband Rick just returned from serving in Iraq. My heart goes out to Rick and his children. It just absolutely breaks your heart."


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## rivercrawler (May 27, 2007)

Paddle Iraq said:


> Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe to get to the put in you drive right along the NF the whole way and would be able to see what you're about to raft. I've only driven that road once and its been four or five years, but I recall taking a look at the NF as I drove along and thinking that it was beyond my ability. Is it possible that they thought they were on the SF Payette?


You are correct. I used to live in Stanley and drove back and forth every week along that stretch of the payette just North of Banks. It can be flat out gnarly along there. The only way you could not see what you are about to drop into is if you came in from the North because it is deceivingly mellow near the put in.


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## phlyingfish (Nov 15, 2006)

*So Sad, So Preventable*

What a mess. Condolences to the family and to the private boaters who volunteered to help with the response. Dealing with fatalities on your home river tends to put it all in perspective. Unfortunately, we get a lot of perspective on the North Fork. 

It was only a matter of time before something like this happened. There are a legion of places in Boise and on the way to the Payettes that rent "river rafts." No helmets required and perhaps a little confusing beta to muddy the waters, so it's no wonder that people convince themselves that they have carte blanche to shoot some big rapids. How dangerous could it possibly be if they don't require helmets? But, as previous posters have pointed out, to put in above Otters you have to stare at two very large and very class V rapids as you drive up the highway. There can be no mistaking, even for a lay person, that the North Fork is serious whitewater, no signs necessary. 

What is most troubling is that the group knew after the first wave train that they were in bigger than expected whitewater. Yet, when they became separated from the victim they continued to float the 1/2 to 3/4 miles of class I/II to the lip of Juicer and then run that rapid. To be clear, the river does not go cranking right into Juicer, there is a significant amount of slack water between it and Otters. 

What is most notable is that both of last weekend's drownings on the Payette were in class II or less and involved logs. Might as well have been the Boise River. For all the hand wringing about inexperienced rafters on the big rapids of the NF, the person who drowned was apparently intentionally swimming and making no effort to get back in the raft. They all survived the class V rapids, experienced or not.


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## Crashola (Jul 14, 2009)

phlyingfish said:


> What is most notable is that both of last weekend's drownings on the Payette were in class II or less and involved logs. Might as well have been the Boise River. For all the hand wringing about inexperienced rafters on the big rapids of the NF, the person who drowned was apparently intentionally swimming and making no effort to get back in the raft. They all survived the class V rapids, experienced or not.


Unfortunately, a large population of floaters have no idea just how dangerous a strainer can be. Especially the casual rafters and tubers. They don't put together the fact that a river current and an object like a tree can combine to easily drown a person. I experienced this just a couple of weeks ago when a tree fell into the Boise River in the middle of the afternoon. To make a long story short, my companions and I spent close to an hour directing traffic and helping people get their boats and stuff to a shallow side channel to get around the tree. A large number of the people on the river that day either said something crass or looked at me like I was crazy when I told them the tree was a hazard that they really needed to avoid.


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## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

mania said:


> Here is what I sent to the authors


Have you heard back from them? They don't even accurately describe defensive swimming through a rapid (backstroke, WTF?), and did completely miss the aggressive swimming that should take place once they get through a rapid, and need to get to shore NOW. Unfortunately the people seem to have had no clue that there was enough danger to warrant getting out of the water as a swimmer. Very sad, beyond words, too many deaths this year, way too many deaths.


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## mania (Oct 21, 2003)

lhowemt said:


> Have you heard back from them?


Yes - the author was still defending his position but is wanting to at least get a dialog going in the statesman so I wrote up a less emotional and more thoughtful response which I will paste here for your critiquing.

----------------------
When Feet First Kills
by mania

When an experienced raft guide or kayaker swims in whitewater he or
she will normally try to self-rescue, usually by using an aggressive
crawl stroke to shore or boat as soon as practical. Commercial guests
and novices, however, are too often still being told by these same
experienced guides to use a passive, feet first swim until someone can
help them. This may work on some rivers, but on many difficult or
continuous rivers it's bad advice that people pay for with their
lives.

The rational for feet first is that you can see where you are going,
you can fend off rocks with your feet, and you can eventually make
your way to shore using a backstroke. Initially when getting through a
rough rapid this might be valuable information. The problem with this
technique becomes quickly apparent if the rapid doesn't end anytime
soon, if the current is swift, or if the swimmer is heading for
something bad such as a strainer, sieve or large hole. It's too slow.
It keeps the victim in the water for too long at the mercy of the
current. There are mainly two ways people die in whitewater, the first
is an entrapment in something like a tree or undercut rock and the
second is a flush drowning where the victim drowns in their life
jacket from taking on too much water. The feet first approach is
practically useless in helping the swimmer avoid either of these two
scenarios.

A crawl stroke on the other hand, puts the swimmer more in control of
their destiny. If the swimmer sees something to avoid such as a downed
tree or undercut rock he can swim perpendicular to the current away
from the obstacle instead of directly into a death trap, feet happily
in front. By aggressively swimming perpendicular to the current using
a crawl stroke the swimmer is making his way to the safety of shore
much quicker than someone using a backstroke. The longer someone stays
in the water the more tired and cold they become. The goal of every
swimmer in whitewater should be to get out of the river as soon as
possible. The crawl stroke is by far the fastest way out of the water.

In either case it should be mentioned that feet are up and the swimmer
should not try to stand up in swift water. Other simple precautions
include wearing a snug life jacket and helmet, and matching the skills
of you and your crew with the river you want to run. Anyone serious
about the sport should take an approved swiftwater rescue class.

Give your friends and/or clients a fighting chance if they fall in.
Tell them about the aggressive self rescue swim. It could save their
lives.


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## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

Wow, maybe some river rescue books should be in their library, and read. The guides I am friends with on the Lochsa teach 3 things, feet first through a rapid up over rocks and down into holes), up on top of strainers, and agressive to shore as soon as you can. Self rescue, self rescue, if you get separated from the boat. It sounds like they have only talked to Class III instructions, which often do not include aggressive swimming or strainers, likely mostly to avoid scaring customers away.


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## Mr Beaver (Mar 8, 2009)

phlyingfish said:


> What a mess. Condolences to the family and to the private boaters who volunteered to help with the response. Dealing with fatalities on your home river tends to put it all in perspective. Unfortunately, we get a lot of perspective on the North Fork.
> 
> It was only a matter of time before something like this happened. There are a legion of places in Boise and on the way to the Payettes that rent "river rafts." No helmets required and perhaps a little confusing beta to muddy the waters, so it's no wonder that people convince themselves that they have carte blanche to shoot some big rapids. How dangerous could it possibly be if they don't require helmets? But, as previous posters have pointed out, to put in above Otters you have to stare at two very large and very class V rapids as you drive up the highway. There can be no mistaking, even for a lay person, that the North Fork is serious whitewater, no signs necessary.
> 
> ...



I think part of the problem is something I have just learned this year.

I started taking complete beginners on raft trips and was shocked by their "raw river reading abilities" I figured after a couple of pointers, they would be like my girlfriend and quickly figure out was was dangerous and what was runnable.

But one of my friends would point at big wave trains and see danger and then see a 5' drop pushing into a rock face and ask if it was o.k. to "float thru!?!

I guess my point is if you don't understand what is dangerous in the first place, looking at some Class IV and V drops don't look much different than a really big Class III.


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## Hans (Aug 21, 2008)

That's crazy, especially on the N Fork. They had to drive 15-16 miles right along that road & the river is almost always in sight, and at 2k it is nothing but white raging hell (though some like it) for 99% of that drive. My ass puckers every time I drive that road.

I can claim I did it without knowing much about the N Fork, and full of a lot of bravado, but was with a very seasoned kayaker that I trusted w/ my life. And now, one of my cat lives resides in Taffy Puller. 3 strokes of an aggressive albeit blind crawlstroke saved my ass, a passive feet first float and all 9 cat lives would reside in Golf Course to this day.


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