# Main Salmon mid-June advice needed



## Ken Vanatta (May 29, 2004)

*great family fun, but be safety minded*

We did a multi-family trip putting on 6/30 last year. It had dropped to 15,000 by then in a big snow year for the north. The Main had peaked out over 85,000 earlier that month I think. I don't think they had as much snow this year. 

It was my wife and I's honeymoon with my kids. Her and my then 12 and 14 year old daughters and I all kayaked. We had a big group with rafts, a conoe, and sometimes duckies. My wife and youngest daughter had a couple of swims, but were not scared. The other daughter styled it in the JK Punk Rocker. They all portaged two or three of the hardest rapids by loading their boats onto the rafts. It was a fantastic trip, though. The weather was excellent and the beaches are phenominal. 

The whirlpools were challenging for the gals. They're in most rapids and definitely at the end of all. Most rapids were fun 6' wave trains. Only a few were class III+ or IV. We had a two person, father/daughter, open canoe ont he trip also. They had a lot of excitement, but did well with my helping guiding and or rescue them. We only had one raft flip during the trip and had they been paying attention it wouldn't have happened. 

15,000 fairly big volume, but the rapids are not really very difficult. Lower volume should probably be easier. However, please do not allow anyone in the water at camps without pfds on. The current is strong and full of whirlpools. We did encounter a camp swimming drowning from another group. I, too, foolishly swam an earlier rapid at a camp with a pfd on and was exhausted trying to get back to shore. Any swimmers should be fine in the rapids but do need to have good pfds and be rescued by boat, either raft or kayak. It is a wide river and at those volumes or higher it is difficult to get out. I was the safety kayaker and worked hard to get anyone out. Nonetheless, I loved all the rapids. In many I would just hold my paddle out of the water and just use my edges to let the waves toss and surf me around. Some waves were big enough to actually pitch me 8 or 10 feet through the air from one wave to the next. They were all fun and none really very hard. Just fun.

The hardest part of the whole trip for us was the killer drive. I recommend taking two days each way. We did the 24 hr straight through marathons and it was killer. I also might suggest you consider hiring the jet boat companies to take your group and gear from the takeout to the put in and avoid the car shuttle. We paid to have cars shuttled and it became an issue with keys not left in one vehicle and was equally expensive, too. Checking out the jet boat shuttle might be worthwhile. The jet boat rides are cool. We got treated to two by one of the generous boat owners that liked our camp sites and parties going on.

Bottom line: It's a great trip for families and was great weather by then. Here are a couple of river level forcast links to be checking. One is way down stream and the other upstream. So, neither are accurate for what you will have on the Main section, but can help give you an idea of what the trend is. 

http://water.weather.gov/ahps2/hydrograph.php?wfo=mso&gage=whbi1&view=1,1,1,1,1,1 

http://water.weather.gov/ahps2/hydrograph.php?wfo=mso&gage=smni1&view=1,1,1,1,1,1 

Hope this helps. Have a great trip!

Cheers!
Ken


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## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

Here is the forecast from the "oracle", the NRCS snow survey group that has a worthwhile forecast, even long term. 

http://www.id.nrcs.usda.gov/snow/images/watersupply/recession_graphs/salmon_year.gif

The flows will be low, likely more comparable to last year's mid July. Of course it all depends on the weather, which can vary ANY season in this country. The water is going to go FAST, there's not much snow up there. Rain could extend it, or it could flush it all out too. Prepare for sunny and 80-90, and also cold and raining. It should be less severe than the MF, but that is all relative. June is typically the rainiest month, or pretty close. I believe the El Nino pattern, as it breaks, is supposed to give us a bit more moisture this summer. Unless it makes it hotter and drier. 

I can't comment to whether or not this is appropriate for your "family" trips, you don't mention which rivers you consider more challenging and don't take the kids on. I consider the Main a mellow family float, suitable for my dogs who don't like big rapids. I think late June would be a good time for them this year.

Here's some info for campsites:

Whitewater Rafting Campsites | Resources for Planning Rafting Trips


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## fiya79 (Feb 9, 2010)

given the flow for the last few days, the amount of water in the snowpack and a bit of magical guessing I would say you are going to be fine.

The river seems to be peaking fairly early and in a fairly sustained manner. the combined flow from MF and Shoup gauges has been 6000+ for a week. If memory serves this puts it above 6' on the corn creek gauge. I don't see a second peak in the future.

The main isn't nearly as prone to rain surges as the MF and smaller creeks. the drainage is so big it averages out a bit.

I think we'll see flows below 3' by June 15.

Have fun


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## mtcarys (May 26, 2009)

In one of the posts above Ihowemt refers to a year comparison graph of flow on the Salmon River. Does anyone know where on the NRCS site you can request this type of graph or is it something they issue every so often (and where to find an update)?


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## cataraftgirl (Jun 5, 2009)

The Main Salmon is my favorite river trip. I've done it every year for the last 10 years, anywhere from Mid-June to September. We launch on June 12. We are expecting flows to be below 3.0ft by then. It appears that the Main has peaked this past week or so and is heading down. At least that's the way it looks. Here's the rule of thumb I use .... take the flow at Shoup, add it to the MF flow at the mouth near Shoup and this gives you an approximate flow at Corn Creek. 10,000 cfs (give or take) = 3 ft. 7800 cfs = 2 ft. 5600 cfs = 1 ft. We always do family trips, and take kids at flows below 3 ft. As for camps, there really aren't any "bad' camps on the Main. Except maybe Swimming Hole ..... hot, no shade, and the "swimming hole" is a mucky back water that requires hiking over a boulder field to get to. It's my least favorite camp. By June 22 you should be golden. Weather on the Main is usually pretty good, but can vary a lot in June. Have a great trip.
KJ


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## cataraftgirl (Jun 5, 2009)

One other resource. Check out Rafting The West website. Will has done an awesome job of documenting all of the campsites. You can see pictures of all the camps.
KJ


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## ednaout (Jun 3, 2005)

This is great info. I am going to be on from 5/29 - 6/3. The forecast is for low temps of 35/night and 60s/days. Not too bad for temps. The water does, indeed seem to be coming down a bit. I'm interested to see the flow over the next couple days leading up to our launch.
Anyone that has ANY input on a late may/early june launch, I would be happy to hear it. This is my first Salmon trip so bring on the advice!

Thanks,

Beth


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## cataraftgirl (Jun 5, 2009)

I haven't done it quite that early, but I'm guessing you'll be somewhere between 2.5 - 3.0 ft. That's a great level. Rapids to watch for / scout - Bailey, Salmon Falls, Big Mallard, Chittam, Vinegar. The scout for Salmon Falls isn't easy, so you may just want to go for it. Remember on Big Mallard the run is down the left, between the shore & the huge hole. On Chittum, stay away from the wall if you can. Best guide book is by Eric Newell (Black Canyon Guides publication). It has spot on descriptions of camps, rapids, and rapid diagrams.
Other must-do things - a stop at Buckskin Bills for ice, soda pop, ice cream, and to check out the little museum, a soak in Barth hot springs, and another stop for milkshakes, ice, soda pop at Mackey Bar. If you have time, stop at as many for the old homesteads as possible - Jim Moore, Campbells Ferry. Polly B, Shepp Ranch.
Have a great trip.
KJ


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## ednaout (Jun 3, 2005)

Thanks, that's all great info...I'm going to see if I can track down that guide book today -
I should have mentioned that I would be in my kayak...I will probably do some rowing too but primarily small craft.
KJ- every year for the past 10 years! WOW! What a great tradition: )
Thanks again!


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## ssoren1 (Jul 14, 2009)

Went last year on June 21st. It was the first time and really first time going down big water beside westwater. I couldn't remember the gauge at Corn Creek but according to the graph it was approx. 40K. So a bit more flow than what you will experience. 2 - 14-footers, 1 -16 footer and 1 -16 foot cat. Weather was wet and cold the first two days. Get the guide book mentioned in the previous responses. Good info and rapid descriptions. No flips or mess ups, Chittman I thought was the must difficult since was not used to going backwards into a large rapid. Live and learn I guess. Must stops are the hot springs, can't exactly remember the name, Mackey Bar, Polly B, and one ranch on the river right which had a sand volleyball court which we dominated. Camps at this level, according to other boaters on our trips, are better at lower flows. Majority of them seemed unudated. It was a great trip and fun wave trains. Enjoy


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## DeeGardiner (Jun 18, 2009)

Since the water flow has gone way up, I would like to re-ask my original questions...



DeeGardiner said:


> We have a permit for the Main Salmon on June 22. I have never run the Main prior to mid-July before, so I am looking for some advice on a mid-June run.
> 
> 1) The river will likely be higher than I have run it in the past. Our group consists of a few families. We all have fairly good experience (Main, Middle Fork, Deso, Lodore, etc), but we usually don't take the full family when on the more challenging rivers. This will be a full family trip - so I don't want too much risk of flipping or a nasty swim. How high is "too" high for families in 14' and 16' rafts? I was thinking somewhere around 6' on the gauge at Corn Creek. Thoughts?
> 
> ...


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## Ken Vanatta (May 29, 2004)

This graph is at Whitebird, so way downstream.

Advanced Hydrologic Prediction Service: Missoula: Salmon River at White Bird

The Main section will possibly be back to the teens by your trip.


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## cataraftgirl (Jun 5, 2009)

When I posted two weeks ago we were on the train to happy town. It looked like we would have flows at or under 3 ft. at Corn Creek for our June 12th trip. Well, now we have cancelled the trip because the flow at Corn Creek has been at or above 9 ft. for the past week. Crazy. Whiplash & Chittam must be insane. I just saw the post from the person who lost two rafts from their Middle Fork trip. They flipped and the rafts kept on going. The rafts were spotted passing Corn Creek (on their way to Riggins?). Middle Fork has been at 7 ft. lately. I think Idaho must have gotten all their snow in the past month, and it's been raining up there a lot.
Hopefully things will mellow out before your June 22 launch. We have rescheduled for July 2. 
Good Luck
KJ - Now In River Withdrawal


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## Ever_Cat (Jan 20, 2009)

Cataraftgirl - how did you reschedule? I've been monitoring the reservation web site for a July trip and nothing but the dreaded R(eserved). Does a high-water cancellation give you this option now as this wasn't the case before?

DeeGardiner - reasking your questions under the circumstances is a good idea. I use the Main Salmon at Shoup and MF Salmon at Mouth gages to get the approximate CFS at Corn Creek. It is now over 31k CFS and this is the real deal although obviously it will be considerably lower by the time your trip rolls around.

Clearly what is appropriate for one family may not be appropriate for another. The highest I have run the Main is 17k CFS. While this is not the mega level of 30k+ CFS it is beginning to get big and pushy. In my opinion the mid teens are on the upper side of what is appropriate for many family trips. A swim at these levels would be no fun, especially for a youngster. Levels below 10k CFS calm down considerably compared to the mid teens and are much more family appropriate. Unfortunately there is no way to predict what the flow will be on your launch date.

I think that each of the families need to ask themselves about their realistic comfort levels on previous Main/other trips. If anyone felt their ability was stretched at a lower level then whether or not to participate in this trip should be considered. Also sit the kids down and give it to them straight. If they are sketchy about it and you think that they may not enjoy the trip then pass on the trip. Remember it is supposed to be fun.

Sorry, no absolute answers, just a few thoughts. My approach to trips with families and kids is to lean toward the cautious side of things. It is better to miss a trip now than to give the kids a bad experience and sour them on the river life.

Good luck with your decision.


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## DeeGardiner (Jun 18, 2009)

Thanks for the input so far.

I thought I would share a little more info about our group in case that helps anyone provide us additional insights.

The youngest child is 15 and over 6' tall. Most of the youth are college age. So I am not very worried about them - other than my 23 year old son that will be rowing one of the rafts. He has rowed the Main in low water and Deso - but nothing really big or pushy.

We will also have two 2-man inflatable kayaks. Those in the kayaks have a lot of experience, but if they are getting flipped frequently or have nasty swims or are extremely cold - they won't be having much fun.

The other two rafts will be rowed by me and another old time. We have a lot of experience, but we are both in our 50s and don't want a nasty swim. Our wives would also hate life if they had to swim.

Years ago I ran the Main at about 3' on the Corn Creek ramp and it was a very fun level. I am thinking that above 6' will be more than I want to handle - but that is just a guess. It seems pretty likely that the level will drop well below 6' by June 22 so we should be okay.

From reviewing the guide books it looks like a lot of the camps may be under water, so I would appreciate any advice on good campsites for high water conditions. Our group size is only 12, so we don't need really large camps.

Any comments on rapids at >3' but <6'? How is Salmon Falls? Big Mallard? Chittam? Vinegar Creek? Etc.


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## lmaciag (Oct 10, 2003)

Just got off a Middle/Main before the spike (SFS was coming up fast when we passed on the last day... lots of wood). We were riding a bit of the upslope at the tail end of the Main trip. (Main was 5/31-6/3). Trip started at 3.5-ish on the Corn Creek Ramp and stayed pretty stable until the last day (when we rowed over 40 miles to Spring Bar to escape the rain). My memories:

Salmon Falls - Washed out. Either side had a tounge, no 'slot' just a center wave hole that could have been run just about anywhere.

Big Mallard - The hole was more upstream than the book sketch showed. Description said to run left. We had camped just above at Lower Yellow Pine on river right and was taking a bit longer to get left, so I turned around and went right. Hit the edge of the hole trying to get back right and wobbled a bit. My passenger had scouted it from camp and reported no holes and nothing of concern, so was unprepared for the little wobble and slid off the deck (not holding on tight, coffee cup out). This was not being attentive, not the difficulty of the rapid.

Chittam - Scout to know your marker and pull right. As long as you are right of the nasty hole at the top, should be fine. Pull in your drag bag as I lost my beer as my stern was pointed river right and it got a little shallow passing the marker rock.

Vinegar - read and run.

Elkhorn is another to note. Long rapid, big hole at the end. Book gives a good description/diagram. Ran left to center to right and watched as we passed the nasty hole at the bottom.

I've also done this run at 7'. That run was my third time ever rowing a boat. I was concerned about Whiplash, but ended up being less than crazy. Just time the pull to the left. Everything else was just fun (though was not used to the boils and eddy fences back then).


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## Ever_Cat (Jan 20, 2009)

OK, those are big kids. I was thinking smaller and younger kids when I wrote my last post. Probably not too much to worry about with your group. I just don't have the ramp height to CFS conversion in my head but I have a note saying that 5' is about 16k CFS although this could be totally off base (I only think in CFS on this one). But at 6' you shouldn't be in the high-water zone.

As for rapids (in no particular order):
Salmon Falls - should be washed out,
Bailey - big waves but straightforward,
Elk Horn - worth a scout,
Whiplash - scarey at high water but not so bad at medium flows,
Big Mallard - I always run left but as lmaciag points out right is an option,
Chittam - scariest looking but not bad as long as you make the move to the right,
Vinegar - straightforward.

Check out Whitewater Rafting Campsites | Resources for Planning Rafting Trips for campsite info and pictures.


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## DeeGardiner (Jun 18, 2009)

Thanks, that is good info.

According in the map:

3' = 10,000 cfs
4' = 12,000 cfs
5' = 15,800 cfs
6' = 20,600 cfs

20,000 seems manageable until you consider that the flow at the take-out may be 3-4x that of the put-in.


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## cataraftgirl (Jun 5, 2009)

Regarding the reschedule. There is no process, just watching the website multiple times a day, and getting really lucky. There was one day where a couple of late June early July openings showed up on the website, and we grabbed one. Right place, Right time, taht's all. Sure hope things calm down soon.
KJ


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