# Wave Destroyer - The Right Cat for me?



## Pcdc2 (Jan 24, 2011)

Hey All,

So here's the low down. I've already got an AIRE 156R raft to haul the ten 30 packs of beer, passengers, and gear, on my trips and am now considering adding a cat to my line up of boats. 

My dad is also a beginner rower that I am teaching so he can row everything we run. I'm thinking a 14' Wave Destroyer might be the perfect cat for my needs. Basically, we do a lot of multiday (Cataract, Deso, MFS, Main Salmon, Westwater, etc etc) stuff and I am looking for a cat that I can use for harder rivers as well. 

I'm thinking I may occasionally have a passenger and/or light gear on the Cat, hence the 14', but I would also like something that I can get on the class V stuff when I'm rowing solo/gearless. 

Any opinions? I know cats tend to row like shit if they're overloaded, but again, I don't expect to load it down, maybe just a passenger or light gear. 

Also, if anyone knows of any good used deals, let me know, this habit is getting expensive!

Josh


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## cataraftgirl (Jun 5, 2009)

I've been rowing 14 ft. Cats for over ten years. A great size boat in my experience. I run all the same multi-day trips you mentioned. I started with a 14 X 19 Jacks Plastic Flyer Cat, then went to a 14 X 22 Maravia Cat, now have a 14 X 24 Maravia Cat. If you think you will carry a passenger and a light gear load on multi-day trips I would go with a 14 X 24 boat. If you think you want more of a day/play boat go with a 14 X 22. I love my Maravia Cat. They added a bit more rocker to their Cat design a few years ago, and the boat seems a little more lively to me than my old one, and punches holes better. Anything by Aire is also top quality, and folks seem to like Sotar also. Lots of good stuff out there. I would watch the NRS & Mountain Buzz gear swaps for good deals.
I rarely ever carry a passenger, but I do carry a medium gear load of personal gear & some group gear. I run a 66 inch NRS frame. My boat could easily take a wider frame, but I like a narrower frame (keeps me from getting carried away with my gear load). I'll attach some pics of my rig.
KJ


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## Avatard (Apr 29, 2011)

Kj those pics are from rogue, right? Concrete pillar looks familiar


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## riverrunr77 (Aug 17, 2011)

Avatard said:


> Kj those pics are from rogue, right? Concrete pillar looks familiar


 
Kind of looked liked graves creek bridge except the the stream comes out just ahead of the pillars. 

Yep I see the stream its graves creek bridge

I see a purple rogue permit !


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## cataraftgirl (Jun 5, 2009)

Yes.....you boys are correct. My first Rogue trip last July. And yes, just approaching Graves Creek. We put-in at Almeda....a nice campground & put-in. 
For bonus Buzzard Points....can you name the river in the second picture? I'll add a picture to give you a hint. You get double bonus Buzzard Points if you can name the camp?????
To the OP, I think a 14 ft. Cat would be a great beginner boat for your dad. The only problem is that you may never get him off the sticks so that you can row that boat 

KJ


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## mttodd (Jan 29, 2009)

I started boating with 14x22 maravias, then 14x24's, then 16x24's. They are all junk performance compared to the wave destroyer design. Or sotar for that matter. No offense to maravia lovers, as I still have a Zephyr raft. The wd cat is just such a step ahead if you plan on having fun on big water.


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## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

You'll love a 14' WD, it'll do everything you want to do with it, plus it's big enough for week long river trips with gear. I wouldn't even say light gear, a normal amount (not like some rafters take) is fine. 

Hmmm, good deals on a WD? Doubt it, at least it is cheaper than a sotar.


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## cataraftgirl (Jun 5, 2009)

mttodd said:


> I started boating with 14x22 maravias, then 14x24's, then 16x24's. They are all junk performance compared to the wave destroyer design. Or sotar for that matter. No offense to maravia lovers, as I still have a Zephyr raft. The wd cat is just such a step ahead if you plan on having fun on big water.


No offense taken, although calling the Maravia cats junk is a bit strong. Different strokes for different folks. I love my Cat and it works great for my multi-day class III - IV trips. I'm not a class V playcat person. I can tell a difference in handling after Maravia changed their design about 3 (?) years ago, and added more rocker to their tubes. That's enough performance for me


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## BarryDingle (Mar 13, 2008)

Get a cat to get stupid (solo) with. No point in catering to passenger(s) when you have a raft for that. IMO...

I vote WD or Legend. I own a 12.5 Legend and love it. You'll never want to go back to your round boat once you have a badass,light,rowdy cat for yourself.


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## mttodd (Jan 29, 2009)

Please don't mistake my opinion. Maravia builds some of the most durable products I have ever used. Top notch gear. The tube designs ( all that I owned) were unlike anything sotar and aire builds. They perform radically different in big water. That is all I meant.


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## Avatard (Apr 29, 2011)

mttodd said:


> Please don't mistake my opinion. Maravia builds some of the most durable products I have ever used. Top notch gear. The tube designs ( all that I owned) were unlike anything sotar and aire builds. They perform radically different in big water. That is all I meant.


I knew what you meant. Its a funky looking design inspired by vikings


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## cataraftgirl (Jun 5, 2009)

No problem. Maravia's newer Cat design seems to handle better in bigger water & punch holes better than their older more straight design.If the OP is looking to do class V then a WD or Legend might be a better choice. If he's looking to carry passengers or a moderate amount of gear, then a Maravia or Aire Ocelot might also be a good choice. If he's looking for a good price on a used Cat, I'll bet he'll have a much easier time finding Ocelot tubes than a WD, Legend, or a Maravia.
Here's some pics of the dramatic change in the Maravia tubes. Imagine my surprise when my new tubes arrived 3 years ago


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## cataraftgirl (Jun 5, 2009)

OK...scratch that. There's a Sotar SL, a Wave Destroyer, and an Ocelot all on NRS Gear swap right now.
KJ


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## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

Stay away from the sotar sl, while some like it, not many people do. If hou're looking sotar, 12.5' legend is the way to go


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## mrett (Feb 17, 2012)

lhowemt said:


> Stay away from the sotar sl, while some like it, not many people do. If hou're looking sotar, 12.5' legend is the way to go


I started with the Ocelot and 12' flat top Maravia, Moved to the 13'6" Sotar Legend for two-up and running gear for kayaker buds on 4-5. Last couple of years have run 13' boats, a nice blend of capacity,nimbleness, overnight trips in big water and the ability to play/ surf. Light enough to handle at the takeout alone, big enough to wash out when I'm over my head or off line.


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## Avatard (Apr 29, 2011)

cataraftgirl said:


> Here's some pics of the dramatic change in the Maravia tubes. Imagine my surprise when my new tubes arrived 3 years ago


the diameter change seems a lot bigger than 2". Maybe its me but that looks a lot bigger than roughly 9% increase Did you ever confirm through measurements the 22 and 24" sizings?

Looks like they made the tubes about 4" taller


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## cataraftgirl (Jun 5, 2009)

Yes I did, and they were accurate. Very visually deceiving though. Made me scratch my head at first. But I'm so happy with my new boat. It's the perfect size for what I like to do.

+1 on the Sotar SL. That's the one with the tapered tail. What about the WD with frame for $3300? The ad says it's new, but doesn't give a length for the boat? The Ocelot would also be a good starter boat. There's not very many day/play options in Utah. You folks in Idaho/Montana/Oregon have way more of that. Our rivers are almost all permitted multi-day trips. The OP lives in SLC, so I don't know how much class V stuff he'll be doing????


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## DRL River Gypsies (May 19, 2010)

mrett said:


> I started with the Ocelot and 12' flat top Maravia, Moved to the 13'6" Sotar Legend for two-up and running gear for kayaker buds on 4-5. Last couple of years have run 13' boats, a nice blend of capacity,nimbleness, overnight trips in big water and the ability to play/ surf. Light enough to handle at the takeout alone, big enough to wash out when I'm over my head or off line.


 
Mark you forgot to mention how much you secretly want to try out the new "SLegend"

Whether you end up with the WD, Ocelot, Legend, or even an SL, you'll fall in love with the empy, lightweight cat! Especially after running your raft full of gear!


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## cataraftgirl (Jun 5, 2009)

Oops.... I shouldn't have said +1 on the SL. What I meant was I agree with Laura. Doesn't seem like the SL is as popular as the Legend.

I do agree with DRL River Gypsies..... he might not want back in his raft after rowing a smaller Cat. And if he gets his dad in the Cat as a beginner, he might never get his dad out of the Cat either.


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## mrett (Feb 17, 2012)

The SLegend is a Hot Machine , Best of Both Worlds, Surfs like crazy w/ the Legend tube aspects up front.... Add a DRL lite weight frame..... I do want one ..... But may need 11' for coastal run we looked at today !!!!


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## Alphacyber (Mar 18, 2010)

The Wave Destroyer is the perfect boat for what you are describing. I've been rowing them since the prototype stage, and they are solid. I've run it loaded with myself and gear on the Grand Canyon (it carries a load a bit better than the similarly sized Ocelot, in my experience). I've also used it for the North Fork Payette top to bottom. Many of the other boats mentioned, like Maravia, work great for many things, but the WD has a class V performance edge on even the updated Maravia design. (Though, as mentioned above, Maravia's construction quality is nothing to scoff at. They build a good boat.) 

Even though I'm an AIRE guy (by preference, not because I'm being paid off), I think the Legend is also a good boat. When comparing the Legend to the WD, keep in mind that the Legend has fatter tubes. The 12.5' Legend is almost equivalent to the 14' WD in terms of load capacity and other associated size considerations in how it runs. 

So, if you can get a WD, that is my first recommendation. It will be a forgiving design for your dad to row, and it will perform excellently when you want to do a harder river.


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## Catmanfoo (Feb 17, 2012)

What ever you decide stay away from the old Maravia tubes. They are sluggish and unresponsive. On a 5.5' Middle Fork Salmon Last year I was on a Custom Ocelot (had it made custom by aire with 2" oversized tubes). I carried the most gear and did well in the big water. The Wave destroyer that was on the trip performed ok, but not as well as my ocelot or the Sotar legend. The Wave destroyer rocks for day trips. The new maravias look good though. I'll have to borrow a pair this summer and try them out.


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## Catmanfoo (Feb 17, 2012)

Ok Cataraftgirl I'm thinking that 2nd pic you posted is MFS


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## cataraftgirl (Jun 5, 2009)

We have a new player.....and a winner. Catmanfoo. Double Bonus Buzzard Points if you can name the camp. Two more pictures to assist.

I never thought my old Maravia Cat tubes were sluggish, but I can sure feel the difference with the new ones. Not class V specific like the WD or Legend.....no way near as much rocker, but they work perfect for what I do.


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## Alphacyber (Mar 18, 2010)

Cataraftgirl, those two pictures you just posted are not of the same camp. Is this guessing game exclusively for Catmanfoo? Because if it isn't, I think I know what camps they are.


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## Avatard (Apr 29, 2011)

Dolly?


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## Alphacyber (Mar 18, 2010)

Ok, I guess it's open season. 

The first photo of Cataraftgirl's recent post looks like Cliffside camp. The second is a little harder, but I think it's a photo taken from below Rock Island, looking upstream at the camp.


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## cataraftgirl (Jun 5, 2009)

Anyone can guess. The picture in post #5, and both of the above pictures are all from the same camp. Not Cliffside, Dolly, or Rock Island. Hints....it's a huge camp with two different places to land, and the second picture above is looking upstream where you can just barely see another camp across the river.
Let the guessing begin. I think we may have a new Forum....name that camp. Gotta do something for fun in the off season besides buy new boats, gear, and redesign our frames.
KJ


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## whiteknuckles (Jun 8, 2010)

Wave Destroyer sounds alot cooler he should go with that boat!


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## fdon (Jul 23, 2008)

Marble Right is my best guess


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## Catmanfoo (Feb 17, 2012)

Some Good guesses.....with just the one pic I was going to guess cliffside as well. A really low water dolley wasn't a bad guess either. 

I think I'm going to go with survey.....

In regards to the cat tubes take a weekend go to boise, arange to try some demos on the payette.....run the maravias Versus the Aire. You will likely puncture and sink your maravias after catboating on AIRE tubes. Thats what sold me on my Aire, I would not reccomend the puncture part  
When it comes to catboating its very hard to beat AIRE....
Just the same when it comes to a round boat its hard to beat a Maravia....


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## zbaird (Oct 11, 2003)

trail flat?


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## Wadeinthewater (Mar 22, 2009)

cataraftgirl said:


> the second picture above is looking upstream where you can just barely see another camp across the river.
> KJ


Woolard looking at Survey.

Is my prize a MFS trip?


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## Alphacyber (Mar 18, 2010)

Wade, I agree, now that you mention that one. I've stayed at Survey several times, but never Woolard, so it wasn't immediately obvious to me. 

OP, I hope your questions have been answered.


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## dport (May 10, 2006)

I have a 14' lion and a 16' marrivia(05 or 06), even though the Lion is a "gear hauler" I have taken it through Cross Mt. on the Yampa, 45 Ranch to Rome, Cat, the Main Salmon, and hit some big holes and made some tight moves with it. I have a choice every time I hit the river, my 16' did not hit the river even once last year.
Hey anyone lookin for a good deal on a set of 16' Marrivia tubes. Orange in color....
Be safe out there, Dennis


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## cataraftgirl (Jun 5, 2009)

Wadeinthewater said:


> Woolard looking at Survey.
> 
> Is my prize a MFS trip?


We have a winner !!!!
Sorry, no MF trip prize. But you have the honor of being the first ever Name That Camp - Buzzard of Honor Award.
Yes, it's Wollard. Not an easy one to identify. It's just across & down river from Survey. We prefer Survey, but the last two years the outfitters got Survey and we got to try out Wollard. There are two landing spots for this camp. The first is just at the downriver end of the big wall across from Survey, and the second (the one we use) is through the riffle and around the corner. It has a nice large landing area/eddy at low water, and a very nice kitchen alcove in the trees. The upper bluff is huge, with room for a ton of folks & tents.
Congrats to Wadeinthewater. Catmanfoo...you were soooooo close.
KJ


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## Avatard (Apr 29, 2011)

We set up our groover right where your tent is in the pic


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## cataraftgirl (Jun 5, 2009)

Cool. I'll tell my rafting buddy....it's his tent in the picture :lol::lol::lol:


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## Avatard (Apr 29, 2011)

When using the groover we practice "leave no trace" techniques ....


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## bkp77 (May 9, 2004)

Ok, there seems to be a MFS audience on this thread.... 

A real quick question:

So far I've always had to fly into Indian, so how does the road to Boundary Creek rate for driving? Pretty tame dirt road that will be ok for passenger vehicles or bring something burly? Is it similar in character to the road to the take out? This is later in the season so not worried about early season snow blocking it. 

Thanks for any info.


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## flatheadrafter (Dec 21, 2010)

bkp77 said:


> Ok, there seems to be a MFS audience on this thread....
> 
> A real quick question:
> 
> ...


 

That road is fine for 2wd low clearance vehicles when dry, but it is narrow, twisty and steep (the end) in spots. Also, there are always large vehicles pulling large trailers. Use of common sense and courtesy will pretty much get you to boundry in any vehicle w/o a problem in the summer months. Like most things, it's better to look ahead, rather than have to back out .


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## bkp77 (May 9, 2004)

Thanks for the help!


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## Pcdc2 (Jan 24, 2011)

Hey everyone thanks for all the responses! It sounds like the WD will probably be perfect for my needs. 

I really appreciate the input from all of you on your experience with different tubes. 

I've been on a couple trips with my raft loaded down, watching the cat boaters glide around with barely any effort...I can definitely see having a hard time going back to the raft after being spoiled on the WD. 

Can't wait to get on the river this season!


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## cataraftgirl (Jun 5, 2009)

Let us know what you end up with. And remember......pictures or it didn't happen :grin:


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## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

My raft hardly gets out anymore, that's for sure! Enjoy the cat


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## dgosn (Sep 8, 2006)

You'll like the 14' WD. I have a 12.5 legend, and have rowed a 14' WD several times. They are a little different in their handling, but both great Class V boats. I've found that the 14' WD has the same weight(gear) capacity as my 12.5 Legend.

Where the WD shines is speed; On the same river, same flows, same frame, same gear load, etc... I find the WD is noticeably faster in the flatter water than my legend, also tracks a little better. Of course with a play cat, flat water speed isn't of paramount importance, but on a one day Upper Animas trip I can always tell the difference after 26 miles.

Your raft is going to get very lonely once you get a little cat!

-sn


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