# Raft Guide Quiz



## zcollier (Jan 1, 2004)

Dear Mountainbuzzers,

I've spent the past month trying to perfect a raft guide quiz intended for people that work as professional river guides. It's been a lot tougher than I thought. On of the side goals of this project has been to stir discussion about best practices. I've learned a ton through this process and hope to learn more as I continue to improve this quiz.

If you have time, please consider taking it at:

https://www.whitewaterguidebook.com/guide-quiz/

And please provide me feedback/thoughts. When taking it, please remember 2 things: (1) this from a professional river guide point of view, and (2) There is not always a perfect answer for every scenario so please pick the right one.

Thank you,


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

Not a professional river guide. I didn't ace it, but I wasn't unhappy with my answers in relation to the correct ones. It was good for me as a private paddle guide to see what the correct answers were.

Really interesting to see the pie charts with the other responses. thank you!


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## Andy H. (Oct 13, 2003)

Pretty good quiz, Zach. As another who's never worked as a guide, I felt OK with my results and was glad to be able to see the correct answers. Thanks for putting the effort into doing this.

-AH


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## zaczac4fun (Mar 21, 2018)

Nice quiz! 

Enjoyed the challenge - also not a professional guide. ;-)

One note coming from an EMS background
American Heart Association (the people that set CPR standards) now recommend compressions-airway-breathing when starting basic life support care.
Many courses these days also include stopping life threatening bleeds at the top of the algorithm. 

All that being said, depends on what you're teaching, (ABC is what I'd do for a likely drowning victim) but maybe the question could use clarification since you refer to AHA in a prior question?


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## zbaird (Oct 11, 2003)

What the hell is the IRF "I'm ok" signal? Never even seen or heard of that. Its always been pat your head. I would have no idea what someone was telling me if they were pointing at their head.

Missed the avengers question ( i chose nerds), throw rope length (75') and "Im ok" signal (pat head).


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## Will Amette (Jan 28, 2017)

zaczac4fun said:


> Nice quiz!
> 
> Enjoyed the challenge - also not a professional guide. ;-)
> 
> ...





Not a commercial boater; haven't ever been yet, but I enjoyed the quiz and did pretty good.


I get my CPR training for SCUBA rescues. Yes, for drowning victims getting two rescue breaths in first is what DAN teaches. For a sudden cardiac arrest, the victim has oxygen in their blood, so just doing compressions will help. We can assume someone who drowned no longer has oxygen in their blood, so getting some air in there is at the top of the list, sometimes before activating EMS. You can do compressions while you call if you are the only one.


One time years ago after a swim, I gave an OK sign that was more like the one in the quiz. It's also what a SCUBA diver does on the surface (the OK symbol with fingers underwater). It's typically done with both hands overhead, but if only one hand is available, it's a big circle of one arm. Anyway, I did that sign from shore, and some in my party thought I had hurt my head because everybody in the paddling/rowing community around here pats their head. I think that's what William Nealy drew in his book a those years ago. 



A SCUBA buddy of mine sometimes does OK with a fist up and down on his head. But then we kid each other that this is the sign for "dickhead."


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## Lipripper60 (Jul 1, 2018)

Fun quiz and I did ok for an old dude. Might want to reword your pulley question though because pulleys actually add a bit friction but decrease force needed to move an object. 

Oh, and I was taught a head pat meant OK. Gonna have to retrain myself. (And avengers are for nerds although Hulk would be handy when someone wraps a raft).


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## zcollier (Jan 1, 2004)

zbaird said:


> What the hell is the IRF "I'm ok" signal? Never even seen or heard of that. Its always been pat your head. I would have no idea what someone was telling me if they were pointing at their head.
> 
> Missed the avengers question ( i chose nerds), throw rope length (75') and "Im ok" signal (pat head).


I have always used the patting your head signal and will probably continue to do so since that's what most people I boat with use. The IRF signals are different to (1) conform with search and rescue, (2) have signals that can be exaggerated and seen far away, or (3) other well thought out reasons I don't know about.

Here is a link to a PDF with all of their signals: https://www.internationalrafting.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/GTE-TRV-Signale.pdf

I think it's good to know what they are in case you are boating with paddlers who follow these signals.


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## zcollier (Jan 1, 2004)

zaczac4fun said:


> One note coming from an EMS background
> American Heart Association (the people that set CPR standards) now recommend compressions-airway-breathing when starting basic life support care.


Thank you sooo much for the info. I just made some changes to the questions to take out some of the ambiguity.


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## Andy H. (Oct 13, 2003)

zcollier said:


> Thank you sooo much for the info. I just made some changes to the questions to take out some of the ambiguity.


By no means should anyone ever forego doing CPR just because they can't remember this year's proper compression to breath ratio, how many compressions per minute, and all that stuff. Get the airway open, get air into the person, get compressions going. It'll all happen so fast and you'll be amped up on adreneline and it'll be messy. Get down in there and do it. Even if think you'd make a D+ on the CPR test or it's been over a decade since you took the course, you can still save someone's life.

-AH


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## GOTY2011 (Mar 18, 2018)

The Avengers are for nerds.


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## raymo (Aug 10, 2008)

*So true!!!!!*



Andy H. said:


> By no means should anyone ever forego doing CPR just because they can't remember this year's proper compression to breath ratio, how many compressions per minute, and all that stuff. Get the airway open, get air into the person, get compressions going. It'll all happen so fast and you'll be amped up on adreneline and it'll be messy. Get down in there and do it. Even if think you'd make a D+ on the CPR test or it's been over a decade since you took the course, you can still save someone's life.
> 
> -AH


My ex-wife performed CPR on me for 20 minutes and called 911, to keep my ass above ground, till the paramedics arrived and hit me with the Automatic Defibrillator, she was actually doing such a good job, I was actually getting a little life back in me, that after they shocked me I look at them and said I have to shit and don't do that again. They took me right into surgery I guess, I don't remember. Sandy was(is) a great flight attendant and they are trained like a rafting guide in CPR, first aid, AED, open water survival(we all trained together, inflating the rafts(compressed air tanks)and setting up the canopies, sealed in the center is survival equipment, ELT'S, caned water, flares, smoke signals, patch kits, signal mirror, sea anchor. International over water extended flight). Next time your on a commercial flight look at the ceiling, if the airplane is certified for over water flight's you will see red buttons every 20 feet or so, that is the location of the 300 lb survival rafts, they have to drag them to the emergency exits. So if a flight attendant looks at you and says I'm her to save your ass and not to serve your ass, believe it. CPR works, like Andy said, just do it!!!


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## noahfecks (Jun 14, 2008)

I'm sure you will find my answers particularly helpful


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## liltownhero (Mar 22, 2017)

Like others have said the head pat is what I was taught meant "I'm ok". Also would add that the cow tail is there to help with swift water rescue techniques since we use them in swifwater training (dope on a rope). Its not ideal but it is a good technique. Can be used to swing a guide in who has picked up a person from middle of the river, etc. Can also suck your ass to the bottom of the river when you hit the end of the rope in current haha


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## Critter70 (Nov 22, 2016)

From the perspective of a 30 year raft guide, I HATE these kind of things, just get 20 guides in a room and ask these questions without multiple choice and the first answer any person will give is..... well it depends........


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## GeoRon (Jun 24, 2015)

The most important thing is to discuss your signals before you launch with a group. Likewise to discuss procedures such as the point at obstacles or at the path 
through.


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## DoubleShadow (May 2, 2013)

Well I'm a veteran Middle Fork / Selway guide and I failed your quiz. So either it isn't worth a damn or I'm just a shitty guide.


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## TakemetotheRiver (Oct 4, 2007)

*Interesting to see how I did...*

I "missed" several but I am OK with the fact that Avengers are not for nerds.

I was most surprised by the Okay signal as well. I've always known it to be patting the head. In fact, in November I was on the beach in Mexico and saw a kiteboarder being dragged up the shoreline by his kite- even though I have no personal knowledge of kiteboarding, I felt like I should try to help and the first thing that came to mind was to signal him- I patted my head.

He immediately gave me a fist in the air and my son and I swam out to grab his kite, which allowed him to get his feet under him and swim back to shore. 

After awkwardly and unsuccessfully trying to reposition his kite for him, he came and got it and we discussed how useful it was that the head pat is universal in water sports.


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## zcollier (Jan 1, 2004)

Critter70 said:


> From the perspective of a 30 year raft guide, I HATE these kind of things, just get 20 guides in a room and ask these questions without multiple choice and the first answer any person will give is..... well it depends........


I would think a veteran guide would appreciate up to date education and discussions about best practices. Yes many things do depend - but younger guides can't be taught "it depends" - I feel that some baseline knowledge is important. 

The point of the quiz is not to "pass/fail" guides but to be the starting point of discussions about best practices. A good example are the discussions about CPR in the thread of this discussion.

*A PDF is attached below that has information about how the 388 people who have taken the quiz have responded.*


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## MontanaLaz (Feb 15, 2018)

Hulk is clearly the wrong answer, Captain Marvel can simply fly through a super sized starship and destroy it...Hulk can't do that

Only slightly more seriously, is the intent of the deflating an old raft question to imply that you have to have one person at each valve and release them with coordinated precision?

Anything other than that is by definition one at a time. Did you really mean, "Don't let one chamber completely deflate before moving on to the next valve" ???


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## Critter70 (Nov 22, 2016)

I understand it may be for discussion purposes, and that is well and good, I have also been involved with a discussion about when and when not to throw a rope, and everyone is right depending on circumstances, same thing with the two hour long discussion on should med kit be in lead boat or sweep boat, lots of good answer for either. I guess my initial dislike for a test type way to learn is that’s lots of folks will believe they have the right answer based upon what they were taught from a test answer, but may be the wrong answer for that situation. The only real way to learn is put the miles in an experience as many varied and weird situations as possible. I don’t want to imply it’s not a valuable tool, just saying I personally have been involved in way to many conversations about what is the best way, and the answer is almost always, it depends.


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## zcollier (Jan 1, 2004)

MontanaLaz said:


> Hulk is clearly the wrong answer, Captain Marvel can simply fly through a super sized starship and destroy it...Hulk can't do that
> 
> Only slightly more seriously, is the intent of the deflating an old raft question to imply that you have to have one person at each valve and release them with coordinated precision?
> 
> Anything other than that is by definition one at a time. Did you really mean, "Don't let one chamber completely deflate before moving on to the next valve" ???


Captain Marvel was the correct answer in the first version of this quiz but after some vigorous debate we switched the answer to the Hulk. We agreed that Captain Marvel was the most "powerful" Avenger but when it comes to "strength" we interpreted that as physical strength and the Hulk is certainly more physically strong than Captain Marvel. In short Captain Marvel is likely the most powerful Avenger while the Hulk is the strongest.

As for tube deflation it is best practice to deflate all 4 tubes at the same time to protect the baffles. In most boats valves are typically placed together in pairs so this can be done with 2 people.


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## Fly By Night (Oct 31, 2018)

I got a 19, how's everyone else doing?

This was a fun quid and I learned some things thanks for sharing OP


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## zcollier (Jan 1, 2004)

DoubleShadow said:


> Well I'm a veteran Middle Fork / Selway guide and I failed your quiz. So either it isn't worth a damn or I'm just a shitty guide.


The point of this quiz is not to test veteran guides. I'm sure you're really good at making fajitas and rowing boats.

This is intended as a conversation starter about best practices and as modern test for International Rafting Federation qualification. I would respectfully ask you for feedback and suggestions to make the quiz better and in line with current best practices.


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## noahfecks (Jun 14, 2008)

all of your answers are wrong, see my responses for corrections


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## SherpaDave (Dec 28, 2017)

noahfecks said:


> all of your answers are wrong, see my responses for corrections




They’re not all wrong - there were 3 he got correct by my score.


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