# river Knife and safety?



## LochsaIdaho (Jun 25, 2012)

Stick with the fixed blade. Do you really want to be fiddling with a folding knife in a pocket in the "what if" situation? What if it is a hand that is entrapped in a rope? Can you get your knife out of a pocket and opened one handed? How about off handed? If safety is your number one concern, the choice is simple.


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## peterB (Nov 21, 2003)

I carry a folding knife in pocket for a couple reasons.

1. I did a test in 1991 with several sheath knives and a gerber folding knife to see which blade could actually cut someone out of a kayak. The fat blades of the sheath knives where useless while the thin Blade of the gerber could stab in and pull through the kayak like butter. That said only a saw could get through the combing of the kayak. 

2. As a kayaker, I have never liked having a knife in my way when paddling. I think knives that stick out pose a hazard with being caught, pulled out of the sheath, and then you have a knife falling who knows where. 

3. I have fed the river enough $40 sheath knives. Admittedly, not the newer generation like the copilot.

I am more nervous about being entrapped when I am rowing or teaching swiftwater courses. I keep a folding knife in the knife slot/pocket on the pocket flap of the Green Jacket. It is covered so that the knife can not get caught in ropes but I have a piece of cord that sticks out and I can grab and pull. 

Just my opinion and mostly based on personal preference instead of facts.


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## okieboater (Oct 19, 2004)

For a lot of reasons, I switched over to one of the stainless steel EMT type scissor set in a fabric holder on my pfd.

Some years ago there was a situation on the Ocoee River in TN where there was an attempt to cut the boater out of a spray skirt. They ended up cutting a blood vessel in the process and the boater bled out and died before the EMT's got there.

If you do use a knife, I recommend one with a blunt tip.


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## glenn (May 13, 2009)

I've always considered knife situations to matter on the order of seconds and if entrapped underwater the reality of panic is real, so simple has been my approach. I've had the same sheath knife for 4 years now held on with a elastic hair tie. It's fallen out a couple times when climbing into a raft which I don't do regularly. Blunt tip serrated accessible and useable every time without being able to see in about a second.


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## Claytonious (Jan 17, 2008)

Get the CRKT bear claw. It is the best option I have seen. I have owned several other knives that all sucked. Get the blunt tip version with the serrated edge.


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## kayakfreakus (Mar 3, 2006)

This post had me switch to a bear claw and I have been using them ever since, I do carry a folding knife backup in the PFD that is not a blunt tip.

http://www.mountainbuzz.com/forums/f11/close-call-on-bailey-sunday-8008.html

Only had to cut a rope once in an emergency and will not go out without something on the outside of my vest.


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## oarboatman (Jul 20, 2006)

There are two other issue that makes me think about switching to the folding knife. I have had the sheath get caught on the chicken line while pulling someone back in the boat. The second is if you end up entangled with you leg in a rope (the most likely appendage) in current, is there anyway you could even get a knife to the rope. I am picturing having to do a sit-up against the force of the water while getting the shit beat out of you. It seems unlikely that any knife would help you in that situation.


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## stinginrivers (Oct 18, 2003)

Oarboatman read the linked post above about Roy on bailey, it might make you rethink the folding knive.


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## cataraftgirl (Jun 5, 2009)

Claytonious said:


> Get the CRKT bear claw. It is the best option I have seen. I have owned several other knives that all sucked. Get the blunt tip version with the serrated edge.


This is what I use. Never had to use it in an emergency yet, and never had it fall out of the sheath by accident yet either. I think some of the issue with a knife on the outside of the PFD has to do with where the lash tab is located. Mine is on the left side, right below my clavicle. Very easy to reach with my right hand, low enough not to poke me in the chin, but high enough not to get caught on stuff. I use a Kokatat MsFit PFD.


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## hollek (May 23, 2009)

*Easy answer*

Carry both.


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## KSC (Oct 22, 2003)

I've thought about -adding- a folding knife to my pfd as a backup and for other uses, but I would -not- take away the external knife. A few of my thoughts, purely based on empirical experiences of myself and others: 

Roy's is the classic, but a recent story that's a reminder of why an easily accessible knife is good: good boater was doing a class IV run and got randomly snagged by a rope buried just under the surface while boating downstream. It's unlucky, but not that far fetched on popular runs. I gather that he managed to grab a tree branch with one hand to keep himself stable. With the other hand he grabbed his knife, but couldn't get a good angle on the rope to cut it. 

So, he decided to put the knife back in the sheath to switch hands. He said he had the NRS Pilot knife, which stays very secure in the sheath, but apparently is hard to put back in the sheath with one hand (disclaimer: I've never never used one) and was having a lot of trouble. Anyway, eventually the force of his boat or something freed the rope and his boat and he was released without having to cut it, but obviously the situation could have gone downhill fast.

I've been using the blunt tip Bear Claw with serrated edge and haven't found a good enough reason to convince me to switch yet. I seem to lose one just about every year, which sucks, but I just consider it the price of admission. I've gotten good at finding deals at hunting stores. I'm still reluctant to tie the knife to a leash - I know some people claim w/ the proper length leash it's pretty safe, but I've had some violent hole rides and I don't like the idea of a knife flopping around attached to me. 

With the Bear Claw, my casual observation is that taking it in and out of the sheath a lot wears down the tightness of the connection so I try to minimize the amount of times I take it out. Running waterfalls also seems to be a great way to lose your knife, as is climbing around on cliffs or on top of logs. I've also learned that going into salt water and not washing off your knife afterwards is a great way to ruin it. By exercising a few precautions you can keep your knife around a bit longer.


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## CBrown (Oct 28, 2004)

I was tangled in a rope on SlaughterHouse years ago while towing a boat across the river after a friend had taken a swim. It was a very precarious situation and I did not have my knife on me cause I used it for some other purpose(not rescue oriented).
As I was kinda drowning out in the middle of the river a fellow boater approached me from upstream and handed off a foldable knife to me. I took a deep breath went underwater, unfolded the knife and cut the rope off my arm. It was a sketchy situation but was resolved quickly with heads up thinking from another boater on scene. 

I learned:
A. Never use your rescue knife for anything other than rescue.
B. Don't fuck around with towing a boat using a throw bag and not managing the slack properly.
C. Having multiple knives on ones person is a good idea whether running rapids or boating Confluence in the dark after a flood.


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## asleep.at.the.oars (May 6, 2006)

I'm not an instructor, but a quote from one of my past instructors stuck with me. I was only carrying a foldable knife in the PFD pocket at the time. He asked me if I could stand in the shower on cold for 10-15 minutes, and then remove and open the knife one-handed. I couldn't confidently say yes, so I added the fixed blade back to the outside again.


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## Osseous (Jan 13, 2012)

hollek said:


> Carry both.




This


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## LSB (Mar 23, 2004)

Another vote for the Bear Claw. And I don't use it for anything else. It doesn't spread PBJ or cut cheese worth a shit anyway.


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## phillersk (Apr 24, 2006)

I've got the benchmade 8 rescue hook con plastic sheath and snap lanyard attached to the vest. The pocket houses a pointed spyderco folding knife. I figure 90% of any rescue related cuts can be done with the hook. I also spend most of my time on a riverboard, so I don't like the idea of laying belly down on a knife.


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## oarboatman (Jul 20, 2006)

Now that looks like a tool that is a step up. 
Thanks


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## oarboatman (Jul 20, 2006)

Does anyone else have a rescue hook they have and like?


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## adgeiser (May 26, 2009)

I am a bit of a knife lover and as such have quit a few. 

First; out of all of my knives i only have one that is serrated... my river knife.
i would not carry a river knife that is not serrated, it is just extra insurance.

Second; if you choose to carry a folder make sure that you get a 'dive knife', you want stainless steel, the steel will not rust (as easily). Spyderco makes a few good ones. If you go with a folder make sure that you do proper maintenance on it. Take it out and dry it properly, periodically clean and oil it. It would suck to need it and not be able to open the thing.

I use a fixed blade NRS, i believe in keeping it as simple as possible in an emergency situation. I do like the bearclaw.

as far as rescue hooks go, they do what they do well but are nowhere near as versatile as a knife.


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## adgeiser (May 26, 2009)

Oh yeah. I also advocate for a blur tip.


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