# Kayaking the Smith River Mt



## Dustin Judd (Aug 13, 2013)

That looks like a great trip for the packrafters too. I would love to hit that next year.


----------



## okieboater (Oct 19, 2004)

A buddy of mine, put in for a early 2013 June Smith River MT and won. I think it was his first time to put in for a permit there. I had no idea that the Smith was a crown jewel of the western multiday river trips. But the Smith is for sure right up there in the top floats.

Any way a group of rafts and me in a inflatible kayak made the drive up from CO, MO, OK and KS. Beautiful drive up and big time rain rig day afternoon and all night. We launched early in light rain but the Smith was a dark green with plenty of water.

We did 5 days and 4 nights on the river. Each day's run was super easy with good current. Late starts and early afternoons in camp. We did have more rain here and there but it was easy to deal with as we had a big tarp to visit under. I do not remember any issues with the rafts and all were loaded with comfort oriented gear and food. Rafting at it's best!

I have some 6 trips down the Middle Fork of the Salmon and consider that run one of the best scenery and fun rapids any where.

The Smith was a perfect little sister match to the big brother MFS in scenery just not the big time mountains or rapids. A few easy rapids and at our level we had plenty of current even on the last day. Every day was full of oohs and ahhs as we floated down stream.

Like the Flying B Ranch on the MFS, we floated by a Ranch on river left with a sign offering ice cream. What a treat that was!

It is a an awesome run to enjoy, one that I hope to get lucky on another permit.


----------



## elkhaven (Sep 11, 2013)

*Rafting*

I have run the Smith 15 times now, and love the float. Several years ago Montana Fish Wildlife and Parks passed a ruling that dissallowed dogs on the river. Since then I've floated once. My dogs are an important part of my family and are not going to get left home on an this type of vacation very often. We have shifted our floating to other rivers and I will undoubtedly float it again, but it is no longer our every year trip. Too bad as that's where my wife and I were engaged.

It's truly an awasome float with great fishing and spectacular scenery. I've run it everywhere from 100 to 1500 cfs and it was doable at each float. The 100 cfs float caused some of us some angst, as it took 11 hours to get to Indian Springs (6 miles) following a noon put in (way after dark). But the river came up and the rest of the trip went well.

I highly recomend the float. I simply ask that if you agree with my view on allowing dogs that you comment on that as often as possible. Maybe we can turn around the decision and get MTFWP to punnish those with unruly dogs rather than everybody...


----------



## okieboater (Oct 19, 2004)

As noted above, I have only been blessed to run the Smith once.
I hope to repeat.

For the record, one or more dogs have been in my life long as I can remember. Right now my bud is a ten year old Australian Shephard. Love the pup and he is loved as a member of the family.

I do not take my dog on river trips. He and I have attended the local canine club training course and when we are out of our yard he is on a leash.

For every good dog owner on a river trip that keeps his dog on a leash, does not allow that dog to bark all the time, keeps the dog poop picked up, does not allow the dog to run around put in and take outs getting into everyone's gear, there are others who do not.

It is unfortunate that Rangers cannot be there all the time either on the river or at access points to force those yahoos to control their pets.

For me, a river trip is something I do not get to do often enough. When I do get to float, I want reasonably quiet time to enjoy the river, being with my friends and not have to put up with some one else's out of control dog.

Sorry that you have elected not to do floats that do not allow dogs. My bet is you are one of the good dog owners.

The sad fact is the good dog owners are outnumbered by dog owners who do not give a hoot about the experiences of other boaters. The only sure way to control this is to ban all dogs. I support the no dogs on float trips regulation and hope the authorities make more rivers dog free.


----------



## elkhaven (Sep 11, 2013)

very sorry to hear that, next to go will be those obnoxious kids laughing and giggling while squirting each other with water guns... 

Your dog is missing out on some of his/your best times. I'm sorry for him you don't take him along, but I bet he loves staring out the window while your gone!!


----------



## okieboater (Oct 19, 2004)

*Dogs are not kids. even tho some might think they are*

Been floating rivers for decades.

Have yet to see a kid running around the put in peeing on gear, barking all night and generally being obnoxious. They may be out there, I just have not run into them.

Have seen plenty of dogs do that and worse.

My dog may miss out on river trips, but I make up for that when I am at home or doing things with him that do not invade other peoples space.


----------



## elkhaven (Sep 11, 2013)

*tit - tat*

Dogs are kids to many people. We are each entitled to our opinion. I'm not trying to alter yours, just trying to get those that do care to share their lives with their pets to stand up and fight for this privilege! Because if they don't people like you will impose your will against them. 

The only thing I haven't seen kids do on your list is bark all night, substitute cry, and we're there. I have two kids and I realize they are not going to be outlawed, why because the're humans they have rights. Pets do not, we need to stand up for them! Listen to me, I'm starting to sound like an f'ing PETA add. 

It simply boils down to me being tired of having to sacrifice my privileges so that some jamoke in the camp down river might not have to hear a dog bark. Blanket polices simply aren't the answer. If bad dogs cause the problems then don't allow bad dogs. How? who knows? but lets explore options rather than force us all to leave fido at home. My dogs belong with my on the river. I'm sorry yours don't but I will fight for this belief!!


----------



## stuntsheriff (Jun 3, 2009)

I had a good ol river dog. His name was rusty. He loved to lay under the cottonwoods and flick away the gnats with his tail. I remember a Deso trip many years ago. It was May and she was runnin bout 15 thousand or so. Each morning rusty would eagerly run back from his morning dump and hop on my cat like let's go. Hurry up and pack all this stuff up. He loved splashing in the waves. I was nervous about what awaited us downstream and somehow rusty sensed this and he ate more food just in case. Finally we came to three fords and I was scared a lot. But I made the move right to left and I was all clear until suddenly I crabbed my upstream oar! I freaked out because I thought we were done. Well, ol rusty leaped into the green and grabbed the oar in his mouth! He struggled to get back to the boat but he fought his way through the water and brought me my oar! I put it back in as he clambered back on the boat. Then, he gave me a look and shook river water all over me.since then I have a rule. No dogs on the river!


----------



## okieboater (Oct 19, 2004)

It is obvious you are not going to change your view point on dogs on float trips,
Neither am I.

I think opposite than you do on having pets on public rivers. That is fine. We each have a choice to write about, hope to convince others and that is a good thing.

If there was some way to insure dog owners controlled their pets so the pet did not create issues for other folks on the river who were doing their best to share the resource with others, I have no problem with having pets on the river. Thus far, the authorities have not found a way to do this. I do not have the answer either.

The issue is some (not all) but many dog owners have zero concern as to what their pets do to others. I do not blame the pets, I blame the owners. My guess is you are a responsible pet owner. Other river runners are not, else the authorities would not have restricted dogs floating on certain rivers.

Does not really matter much what you want or I, the authorities have made a decision for the public to follow.

You and I can waste our time stating our opinions on this message board, but I doubt much will change. Some will agree some will not. That is the society we live in.

My opinion, we are just swapping posts and not accomplishing much either way.

I am off this thread.

Have a good rest of the day and enjoy your self and hopefully you can find rivers to float with your dog.


----------



## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

I get a kick out of people that say dogs are loved members of their family - then they leave them home when they go on perfect dog vacations. Do you go to Disney world without the kids too? MT FWP make the dumbest rules. Thank DOG they don't regulate Idaho's rivers. Hey, plenty of rivers in Utah for you to boat on that don't allow dogs, I recommend you spend more time there.


----------



## patrick l (Mar 8, 2012)

How are you supposed to not allow bad dogs? You gonna put a ranger a every camp with a poop bag and doggie collar? Too many owners fucked it up for the rest of us, It is what it is. Its a bummer but I support closing rivers down for k9s if need be, ya, I'm the guy that doesn't want to hear "Bridger" barking all night, it sucks. I was on the Smith the last season that they allowed dogs(08 I think) and it was noticeable, never saw a dog that was controlled by his owner once, running and shitting everywhere. Don't blame the FWP at all. I predict they'll eventually shut down the big rivers as well, did the main salmon in august and 2 out of 4 camps stunk like dog shit bad! I was hoping to get stung on the nose so I wouldn't have to smell it, that bad. It's just the world we live now, nobody cares, so I just leave the "family member" at home and keep on truckin.


----------



## cataraftgirl (Jun 5, 2009)

Would love to do the Smith some day, sounds like a great float. You can count me in the pro-river dog category. I don't bring mine on whitewater because he gets nervous and won't sit still. Makes me nervous. So I choose not to bring him, unless it's a flatwater float. But my rafting buddy's chocolate Lab has been on the river since she was a pup. She's run every dog friendly river in the west many times, and even flies in to Indian Creek on the MFS like a champ. I'd rather float with her than many humans I've boated with. But dog's are a whole other discussion, that will no doubt be split down the middle. A lot of it dependent on people good or bad experiences.

I almost applied for a Smith permit a few years ago. Kind of a long trip from Utah, but I'd still like to do it someday. What's the best time of year to apply for?


----------



## elkhaven (Sep 11, 2013)

*put in dates*



> What's the best time of year to apply for?


 The permit season is from mid April through July I believe, but it's not commonly runable in rafts after mid July. The best odds are to put in for a mid July date and hope for a good snow year! other than that, April trips are really fun if your OK with cold weather. You won't need wet suits, dry suits may be nice for rain/snow but there won't really be any river water entering your boat. There was a huge Ice jam a few years ago and some folks had to be airlifted out but that's rare... I supposed my favorite time to float is early to mid May. Salmonfly's are usually on the river somewhere, the water's up but usually not chocolate, the weather should give you some warm days. FYI in fifteen trips I've only been on three that I didn't get snowed on... (late june, mid july and late july), including 2 in early June. That also means 10 of the 15 were in April or May (spring time in the northern rockies :shock: ).

I usually download the application statistics and graph up first choice days by date. I usually can find some sort of pattern that revolves around people trying to include weekends so there is often a mid week lull in first choices, tues-thurs. Choosing those days can help, the other thing I've found over the years is that people don't typcially apply for memorial day or the 4th (just the holiday's themselves) the weekends surrounding them are usually busy, but the holliday it's self usually drops by half...I've never figured out why, really.

The busiest times are Mid May through the 4th, it usually tappers off quickly following that and by the 20th or so, your usually almost guaranteed a draw. I usually do first and second choice dates in early to mid May and my third sometime in mid-late July and pray for snow! June's draw stats are dismal and I try to head to Idaho salmon fishing so I typically stay away from those dates.


----------



## LSB (Mar 23, 2004)

Good info Elk.
I've been here 4 years, applied 4 times, not a single hit.


----------



## elkhaven (Sep 11, 2013)

*network*



LSB said:


> Good info Elk.
> I've been here 4 years, applied 4 times, not a single hit.


Like all river apps it really pays to network with other floaters. I my self have only drawn a permit twice (that was usable). The other thing to note is people are always "in" when they're invited on a trip, but I haven't taken a full trip down the river yet, so being flexible might be another great way to get on a trip...hop on that last minute invite, oh yeah and be reliable, if you say you'll go, you better go, otherwise you won't get invited again...


----------



## LSB (Mar 23, 2004)

Last year 4 of us put in for the week after school let out. 
It was ok that we didnt get one because one of us hit a Yampa for the next week.
PM me when you have room on anything local, I'll bring the sour mash.


----------



## elkhaven (Sep 11, 2013)

*Will do*

Good luck on all your apps!


----------



## LSB (Mar 23, 2004)

Good info on your blog too
I'd have joined the forum there but I couldn't find the button


----------



## montanafortwo (Oct 11, 2013)

*Cancellation*

I still think the best way to go on the river is picking up cancellations. If you are really flexible and have week off you can go to camp baker and pick up a cancellation fairly easy. I new some hard core smith fans that made it 13 years in a row and only drew 3 permits. So you can get it done if will to go.


----------



## mtrafter (Aug 13, 2007)

its quite easy to pick up canceled dates if you have a flexible schedule and the rangers phone number at camp baker, I've floated it in april in the snow and as late as mid august


----------

