# Swwwampped canoe in Government Rapid San Juan



## portercassidy (Jun 10, 2010)

Floated by a group of River folk from SLC, North Carolina, and Moab last week in Government rapid. A couple from SLC managed to completely submerge all but 3' of their 17' Canoe.

I stopped and helped them set up a few z-drag systems, but the canoe wasnt going to move without somebody going out and attaching a rope to the low side of the canoe.

Just wondering who else has seen this, I just checked the water level and it is about 3000 cfs. This is only about 2400 cfs more than when I passed, so I am guessing the whole boat is under water right now.


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## kclowe (May 25, 2004)

That's a good one to portage in an open canoe! Did you get any pictures? Wonder how they're going to get it out. Probably have to wait for the water to drop, huh?


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## oarframe (Jun 25, 2008)

oops,
had a friend dump there last summer in an open canoe. caught that last rock on the right and broached, boat floated clear (as did he). Best part was his wife filming it until he went over.. then you hear an "oh shit" and see feet running downstream. Classic. Fortunately canoe and swimmer both pulled out quickly and no gear lost. Hope the boat comes free, it's rather narrow in there.


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## TakemetotheRiver (Oct 4, 2007)

The SJ's at 3K? Wish I had 3 days off and a permit.


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## oarframe (Jun 25, 2008)

TakemetotheRiver said:


> The SJ's at 3K? Wish I had 3 days off and a permit.


Try 4300 yesterday (courtesy of dreamflows, but 625 on Wen?) must be raining something fierce or the dam is realeasing (or dreamflows is deamin)


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## TakemetotheRiver (Oct 4, 2007)

Sounds like a gauge issue... In July, it rained like mad and the canyon flashed everywhere, including Oljeto where we camped. It wasn't that serious for us on higher ground, but it was beautiful and incredible to see. If it jumped 2000 in 2 days, it has to be a release or a gauge problem.


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## portercassidy (Jun 10, 2010)

I do have some pics, but I have to grab them off a buddy's camera. One of the wierder things about the situation, was that the canoe had a hull that was screwdrivered into place. So the people could not even get their belonging out of the canoe. 

Somebody would have had to go out there with a screwdriver to take the covers off the hull to get to the gear.


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## oarframe (Jun 25, 2008)

Here's one that probably looks like what the OP saw

YouTube - Duckie wrap, Government Rapid, San Juan River, Low Water


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## okieboater (Oct 19, 2004)

*nice video*

the question is did they cut the boat or did less intrusive ideas get use?


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## wildh2onriver (Jul 21, 2009)

Cut the boat, why would you immediately yell that as a solution?? Let air out of the tubes if possible, secure ropes, etc. Cutting the tubes would be the last option. 




oarframe said:


> Here's one that probably looks like what the OP saw
> 
> YouTube - Duckie wrap, Government Rapid, San Juan River, Low Water


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## mania (Oct 21, 2003)

oarframe said:


> Here's one that probably looks like what the OP saw


well that was pathetic.


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## portercassidy (Jun 10, 2010)

I think that guy in the video did that on purpose..... He went straight for it!

The canoe was in the rocks closer to the video shooter. All the canoes ran the sneek to the left. 

I will try to get some pics tomarrow


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## portercassidy (Jun 10, 2010)

Here is a pic


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## BoatlessInSLC (Sep 22, 2010)

Well - That would be my canoe you see stuck in Gov't rapid. I talked to the BLM ranger down there last week - he said it ain't there any more. Guess the big flush from all the rain they had washed it away. But at the water level above (~800-900 cfs) it was about as stuck as you can get. We tried a z-drag from both sides and couldn't budge it. So now I'm considering another trip down to look for it. The ranger thinks it might even be in Lake Powell, having gone over the waterfall. Thanks for the pic.


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## River Malt (Dec 7, 2009)

_Sounds like a gauge issue... In July, it rained like mad and the canyon flashed everywhere, including Oljeto where we camped. It wasn't that serious for us on higher ground, but it was beautiful and incredible to see. If it jumped 2000 in 2 days, it has to be a release or a gauge problem._

I was actually on the San Juan a couple weeks ago and it started at to rain very hard (even saw some pea sized hail). It only rained for about 20 mibnutes and then moved on up the canyon. AFter and during the storm waterfalls were falling down off of all the cliffs and adding lots of water to the river. We got to camp shortly thereafter and that evening and overnight we saw the river swell from 800 CFS to 8,000 cfs. It completely changed the river from just a little brown silt to dark red mud with logs. Great to see and experience! The rest of the trip the water slowly receeded.
So anyway...the river CAN swell to flash levels with one large storm...


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## ezwater (Sep 1, 2009)

Up around 4000 it might be necessary for a tandem to portage the gear to give them better odds of running successfully. We had a bunch of solo and tandem boats run Government without portaging gear, I think at about 1800 cfs, and all made the run just fine. One boat did relax when they hit a leftside eddy after completing the run, and they flipped. I don't see any reason for tandem open canoes to portage if they have good leadership on routes. 

The route chosen by the duckies just asked for pinning, unless the paddlers have really good boat control.


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## padlnjones (Sep 25, 2010)

*pinned boat at Govt Rapid*

Hi, I was on the trip that had the pin (I'm from SC)...The tandem boat tried to go diagonally center to left and couldnt make the move, ended up straight onto a rock in the center of the river, with the bow paddler still sitting in the boat, hi and dry. First we got a helmet to her, then eased her to river left with ropes. We worked almost 4 hours with pulleys and z-drags, couldn't budge it. I'll try to upload a few photos. Thanks to the guys that stopped to help. I will append a report from the boat owner I just received: **************** You remember how it was just starting to rain when we left? Well, from then on it rained a hell of a lot more, and the river rose from around 800-900 cfs to nearly 5000 cfs by Sunday after we got off. So the BLM has been down the river twice since we went down. The first time the water was still too high to tell if my canoe was still there. The second time, the water was lower and they inform me that the canoe is not there anymore. I keep thinking it should have gotten stuck on a sandbar or something somewhere downstream, but evidently no one has seen it anywhere. I suppose it could be in Lake Powell by now. And I suspect it would be pretty dicey to get up the San Juan arm from Powell in a power boat or something, just because of the sand bars and all. (And it’s a really long ways in a paddle-powered boat). Anyway, I haven’t figured out what to do, yet


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## sealion (Oct 13, 2008)

I like the video of the duckies! 

I love that-"Cut the boat-there's no other way!" ...! A little knowledge can be dangerous to your gear! Well, no one is hurt, so if they were smart they stopped and had a "snack break" before they got after it.

Sorry about your canoe- no one's hurt, so its a good story now.

I don't know about the boat making it to Powell- any hole in that thing and its filling with silt and going to the bottom. It may show up sometime if someone does a low water Juan and they see it sticking out of a silt/sand bar somewhere. I'd be contacting my home owners insurance policy carrier.


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## gannon_w (Jun 27, 2006)

I've never ran this rapid but it does not seem that difficult? The ducky guy looked like he was inexperienced or just screwing around as evident by "simple" lack of boat control. So why is this something you should avoid in a canoe? Is there more to it than I see on the video?


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## cataraftgirl (Jun 5, 2009)

Yikes. I hope I never boat with a "knife happy" group. Not to say that cutting a boat isn't sometimes the only option, but geez, that's pretty far down on the list of things to try first. Here's a question ..... they had a safety kayaker with them, did he paddle back into the river right eddy to assess the situation? I hope so. And I hope someone with a little more experience stepped in to manage the situation.
We've never had trouble with duckies or canoes in Government, but every rapid has the potential for mayhem.
Hope you find your canoe dude !!!
KJ


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## alex (Mar 29, 2005)

last time we ran the SJ in open canoes, it was running 5000+. We portaged Government, lined and ran everything else. At 5000, there were rapids we had never seen before in multiple trips at lower levels. There are plenty of rapids in there that will cause a lot of trouble for open canoes, even under 1000 cfs. A simple little ledge drop for a kayak will swamp your canoe.


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## ilanarama (Jun 25, 2010)

We ran the San Juan in July at very low water (~475 cfs - it was when they messed up on the dam releases and the level dropped below 500) and Government was pretty tricky. My husband and I have small cats and neither of us had problems (although I went through the bottom part backwards), but our friends were in an open canoe and opted to line/sneak Government far right - I took pictures which are in this Flickr set here.


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## rivermanryan (Oct 30, 2003)

ilanarama said:


> We ran the San Juan in July at very low water (~475 cfs - it was when they messed up on the dam releases and the level dropped below 500)


Wow, thanks for saying I messed up the dam releases. If you recall I bumped the release up to near 1200 cfs when I saw the downstream flows falling in mid July. It does take about 4 days for that change to reach the Bluff gage. And we never went below 500 cfs on the 7-day moving mean (580 cfs was the low), which is our guideline we follow for the endangered fish. Be happy you have someone operating the reservoir that is a rafter.


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## ilanarama (Jun 25, 2010)

My apologies. I was sort of quoting you from memory - I thought you had said (in the thread about low water on the San Juan back then) that you (meaning the dam people) had miscalculated the release and were increasing the flow. I didn't mean to disparage dam ops, and I know you/they had bumped the release, but our trip was timed such that we didn't see it until we were at Slickhorn. I am glad that a rafter is involved with the reservoir!


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## rivermanryan (Oct 30, 2003)

Apology accepted. I think what you are referring to, is that the San Juan can drop very rapidly when the weather gets hot and dry. I do my best to anticipate it (using forecasts, etc), but between the weather, NM irrigators (who can take a little more than they are suppose to and quickly) and natural losses, it can result in a short period of lower flows before the extra reservoir release can get downstream and do any good. It's a tricky game in the summer months. That is why we use a 7-day moving mean as our guide.

I am pretty open to explain my thinking when it comes to reservoir operations, so feel free to give me a call if you ever want to discuss how the reservior is operated.


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