# Rope in juniper canyon rapid/ yampa



## SteamboatBORN (Sep 22, 2012)

Thanks! Going to try and go through there next month but I'm sure river will be down some. We will be on sup and will prob walk juniper rapid. 


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## mattman (Jan 30, 2015)

You may be way more familiar with juniper than i am, was our first time down it, would deffinately treat this rapid with caution. We ran it at about 5500-6000 and thought it was a vary significant rapid, class 3 + with a class 4 consequence, if not a 4.
Could not eddy out at that level to portage,or scout, maybe you can eddy out above water diversion at lower flows and walk canal bank? Don't know, or if the water intake would be a hazard. 
The Rapid was continuos for a very long ways at high flow.
Be safe and have a great trip! It is a beautifull little canyon.


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## SteamboatBORN (Sep 22, 2012)

i honestly have no experience with Juniper, just know what people have told me. Thanks for the info, and I will def be doing it at much lower levels and I do believe walking is much easier when water comes down.

Its already down a bunch running at 3800 downstream of Craig. I bet you hit it at perfect time for all the rain/warm weather a week + ago in the upper yampa near Oak Creek. 

http://co.river-maps.us/


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## soggy_tortillas (Jul 22, 2014)

We ran it maybe a month ago... level was probably 1400-1500. It was slow and windy for most of the run, except for the diversion dam. You can scout on both sides of the river. Pull over early and walk up to the dam. River right looked like a pretty bony and tricky drop, it would probably be a bummer to get sucked over there... might be better in higher flows. I think you can also portage river right. 
We pulled over river left and clambered down the bank, which got us a lot closer to the rapid but I'm not sure you'd be able to get there in high flows. Anyway, seemed like left of center was the best line, but at the lower flows there were some pretty nasty little holes in there. Both of us hopped on our buddy's raft.
Anyway, it was a nice float minus the wind. We saw a ton of river otters and even a bald eagle battling a hawk.

Mattman, did she swim before the dam or after? If I'm understanding your post, the rope is river right about 100' above the dam? Glad she's ok!


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## sledhooligan (Mar 12, 2009)

Good on you for giving a heads up to people. I'm a little confused on where the rope is? By your discription its hung up on river right at the start of the rapid. Like your swimmer was already in the water before the rapid? Do you mean the flum (bridge thing that goes over the rio)?
As far as scouting goes you can always scout on river left. There is a large pinion (or cedar tree never can remember) at river level right above the rapid. You can tie off on it and walk up on the big rock. Typical run is left of center. At high water there is a good hole on far left that'll punch your fun ticket. 
If you can't eddy out above this rapid you might want to rethink your whitewater skills and stick to lakes and ponds same goes for SUP and portages.


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## SteamboatBORN (Sep 22, 2012)

sledhooligan said:


> Good on you for giving a heads up to people. I'm a little confused on where the rope is? By your discription its hung up on river right at the start of the rapid. Like your swimmer was already in the water before the rapid? Do you mean the flum (bridge thing that goes over the rio)?
> As far as scouting goes you can always scout on river left. There is a large pinion (or cedar tree never can remember) at river level right above the rapid. You can tie off on it and walk up on the big rock. Typical run is left of center. At high water there is a good hole on far left that'll punch your fun ticket.
> If you can't eddy out above this rapid you might want to rethink your whitewater skills and stick to lakes and ponds same goes for SUP and portages.


Maybe I am reading your post wrong, are you saying SUP's need to stick to lakes and ponds?


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## mattman (Jan 30, 2015)

soggy_tortillas said:


> Mattman, did she swim before the dam or after? If I'm understanding your post, the rope is river right about 100' above the dam? Glad she's ok!


So the rock weir that has not been blown up, in this rapid, is on river right, and parallel's the shore line. It creates a channel that forces water to the river right water intake.

The swimmer was in a ducky, and got far off line, and flipped off this rock weir diversion. She was sitting on one of the rocks, when I throw bagged her from river right, I aimed slightly up stream of her, so that if I was not spot on the bag would have a chance to drift down to her.
She was able to get the rope, but the bag got caught in the rocks 30' up stream of her.

We could not free the rope, and she was forced to cut the stuck section of the rope.

My best estimate is that the bag is (or was) caught about 100' to possibly 150' up from the diversion intake, on one of the rocks in the weir. Hopefully the picture helps.
Thanks for the additional info! I had a hard time finding ACCURATE betta for this section before our trip, if I had known what I know now, I would not have had a ducky running this section at that flow. Hind sight is 20-20.


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## mattman (Jan 30, 2015)

sledhooligan said:


> Good on you for giving a heads up to people. I'm a little confused on where the rope is? By your discription its hung up on river right at the start of the rapid. Like your swimmer was already in the water before the rapid? Do you mean the flum (bridge thing that goes over the rio)?
> As far as scouting goes you can always scout on river left. There is a large pinion (or cedar tree never can remember) at river level right above the rapid. You can tie off on it and walk up on the big rock. Typical run is left of center. At high water there is a good hole on far left that'll punch your fun ticket.
> If you can't eddy out above this rapid you might want to rethink your whitewater skills and stick to lakes and ponds same goes for SUP and portages.


Thank you for additional info!
Hopefully my reply to soggy tortilla's will clarify the location of rope.
It was possible to eddy out on river right, near the warning sighn, but you could see little of the run from there. 

I did not think it possible at the flow to safely hike down the right bank. The big rock is a good idea, which I did not see. 
It may have been possible to eddy out and scout on river left where you say.
I did not look at that bank to closely, because I was told by the craig blm office that the scout was on river right, at the mouth of the water intake. It would have been impossible to stop there safely, if at all.
I did have some concerns about the rapid, the blm told me that it would be class 3+ at that level, but the drop would be flushed out, and it would just be some 5-6 foot waves, basically no worries, just a fun rapid.

We did get as much info as we could before the trip. I ran my 11' cat center right without incident, the 16' cat did the same, the other 16' cat ran a clean line of the far right drop, which I did not feel comfortable with, especially in my new, smaller boat.

I am not sure if you are saying that i should confine my boating to lakes and ponds.If you are, I disagree. And yes I did have the ability, and did , eddy out on river right. 
The ducky boater has run most of deso at 16,000 and been fine. I just feel that rapid is a bit to much for a ducky, for most people, at least at that flow.

Knowing river fatality's that friends of mine have been close to, i would not take any rapid to lightly, I do think this one is significant with potential consequences for carnage, this experience aside. 

I will not blame our carnage on the blm, though I did not think there info was accurate.
I do maintain that there are 3 kinds of boaters, those that have, those that will, those that will again.


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## mattman (Jan 30, 2015)

SteamboatBORN said:


> i honestly have no experience with Juniper, just know what people have told me. Thanks for the info, and I will def be doing it at much lower levels and I do believe walking is much easier when water comes down.
> 
> Its already down a bunch running at 3800 downstream of Craig. I bet you hit it at perfect time for all the rain/warm weather a week + ago in the upper yampa near Oak Creek.
> 
> Colorado River Maps - Colorado River Maps, Information and Flow Data


Heads up, portaging juniper rapid I think would be very long, and possibly dangerous, if it is possible, from what i saw monday, I don't know about stopping at top of diversion ditch at even low flows, kinda wigs me out a bit.
Left bank did not look good to me for walking.
I have never paddle boarded, but I would not personally sup that rapid, I do however know many people run stuff competently that way.
I do not think sup boaters have to stay on lakes/ponds!

Would recommend getting more info from someone more familiar with run than me.
I would not totally trust blm info in my experiences, in addition to rapid info,we planned to camp at south beach boat ramp, there info said it was ok to camp there, until we got to put in, there were sighn's that said no camping. A phone call to there office confirmed this, they did not bother to update there info, including the map they sold us 20 minutes ago.

Glad this stretch is not being over boated, but wouldn't mind seeing a bit more accurate info available on it.


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## SteamboatBORN (Sep 22, 2012)

mattman said:


> Heads up, portaging juniper rapid I think would be very long, and possibly dangerous, if it is possible, from what i saw monday, I don't know about stopping at top of diversion ditch at even low flows, kinda wigs me out a bit.
> 
> Left bank did not look good to me for walking.
> 
> ...



Thanks man, I will def get as much info as possible. Soggy has run it a bunch. I see no issue in walking a rapid even if it's a tough hike carrying my board. The guy posting above is trolling us. 


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## boatbjammin (Mar 16, 2015)

Hi Mattman,
Did you camp on the river, or was it a day trip? How long did the shuttle take? I've been interested in running that stretch of water, but can't find a lot of info on it. Thanks. -b


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## soggy_tortillas (Jul 22, 2014)

I just want to clarify that I've only been on it once, at lower flows like 14-1500. 

Juniper Canyon is a day run... I think it's 6 miles or something like that. Shuttle is short. You can combine Juniper with Little Yampa Canyon, which adds about 40 miles. There's tons of camping out there, mostly BLM stuff. Duffy Mountain is pretty cool, as long as you can find a spot that the Craig kids haven't trashed. There's also "improved" camp sites at the put in, if you're into that kinda thing.


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## SteamboatBORN (Sep 22, 2012)

soggy_tortillas said:


> I just want to clarify that I've only been on it once, at lower flows like 14-1500.
> 
> Juniper Canyon is a day run... I think it's 6 miles or something like that. Shuttle is short. You can combine Juniper with Little Yampa Canyon, which adds about 40 miles. There's tons of camping out there, mostly BLM stuff. Duffy Mountain is pretty cool, as long as you can find a spot that the Craig kids haven't trashed. There's also "improved" camp sites at the put in, if you're into that kinda thing.


Oh sorry, I thought you had run it more. My bad!


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## soggy_tortillas (Jul 22, 2014)

My boyfriend said he ran it years ago, but that the diversion dam has changed a lot since then. He said the left side used to be just one really giant wave, but he thinks a lot of the rocks have shifted since then... could still be a great big wave at higher flows, we're just not sure. Haven't had a chance to get out there again because the Steamboat town run has been so super nice  mmmm... Yampa.


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## mattman (Jan 30, 2015)

boatbjammin said:


> Hi Mattman,
> Did you camp on the river, or was it a day trip? How long did the shuttle take? I've been interested in running that stretch of water, but can't find a lot of info on it. Thanks. -b


Three days from south beach access near craig, to take out near maybell on hwy 40.
Would want more time at lower flows, river was crankin!
Fair amount of unimproved camping on little yampa with lots of ranch land mixed in. private land was fairly well marked by blm. Think there was some long stretches between public land, but not a problem at high water, and winds were fairly tame.

NO CAMPING OPTIONS IN JUNIPER CANYON, last camp was Juniper boat "ramp" small and next to cows/ with a small pay camp site. You might be able to scratch out a small camp on left at head of juniper, with 1 or 2 people, didn't look promising. The cary to pay camping at hot springs is VERY long, with sites made of large crushed rock.

The pdf map on line, and the one we got from blm office in craig, were ok, better then nothing, map did say we could camp at south beach, but blm has since changed there mind, maybell take out was a decent pay camp, $10 a site per night.

Think shuttle took bout 1.5 hrs round trip.
Ton's of birds, some other wild life, plenty of cows, some on public lands.
Not spectacular scenery, but preatty, no other boats, solitude,wild life, i enjoyed it and would run it again, in spite of the rain and snow. 

Think it could be a difficult trip at low flows.

Juniper rapid comes up FAST once in canyon, would have enjoyed white water more if i could have seen what i was dropping in on.
Plus the whole part I had to rescue my girlfriend out of the middle of a big rapid that she very well could have died swiming, it was VERY fast and pushy at that level, and continued a LONG time after the drop, and i have run stuff like Royal Gorge at 3400, and cataract at almost 30'00 in my 14' .

I think little yampa could be a good multi day at higher flows(,if your in to this kind of trip) no real rapids, you can take out at duffy, or juniper river access.
Juniper is very preaty, maybe more of a day trip, with a rather large rapid that has potential for carn. Anywhere people have messed with the river, they usualy cause a hazard to navigation.
Have Fun, be safe!


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## boatbjammin (Mar 16, 2015)

Thanks for the 411 Soggy and Mattman.


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## soggy_tortillas (Jul 22, 2014)

Sorry Mattman, but how do you figure it's a long carry to the paid camping at Juniper Hot Springs? The paid campsites are literally right next to the boat "ramp" just downriver of the hot springs. 
Put in for Little Yampa Canyon is at South Beach just outside of Craig- this is the longer, multi-day float. Put in for Juniper- the shorter float, is just slightly downriver of Juniper Hot Springs.

If you are only doing Juniper Canyon and you're looking for a place to camp, like at the put in, there are numerous options. I'm not sure why you would want to camp IN Juniper because it's such a short run, or if you could really find a good site to set up in the canyon, but you could camp near the put in, outside of the paid camp sites or in the paid campsites if you want, and lap it or something. 

There are a ton of options for camping in the area, some beautiful and excellent sites and a couple that have been completely trashed by the local high school students partying on the weekends.
I've camped in that area since before I could even swim. Duffy Mountain and Juniper Canyon area are almost completely public land. 

Here's some info from BLM... lots of public land. 
There are also a lot of really nice atlases out there that are totally worth the purchase. They show all the private and blm, national forest, state parks, etc... They may not be super helpful as far as river beta goes (though some of them do have brief descriptions of popular river runs), but they're awesome for helping you find a place to camp. I have the Delorme Colorado Atlas & Gazetteer, and the Benchmark Utah Road & Recreation Atlas. Both of them are nice in their own special little way.


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## mattman (Jan 30, 2015)

soggy_tortillas said:


> Sorry Mattman, but how do you figure it's a long carry to the paid camping at Juniper Hot Springs? The paid campsites are literally right next to the boat "ramp" just downriver of the hot springs.
> Put in for Little Yampa Canyon is at South Beach just outside of Craig- this is the longer, multi-day float. Put in for Juniper- the shorter float, is just slightly downriver of Juniper Hot Springs.
> 
> If you are only doing Juniper Canyon and you're looking for a place to camp, like at the put in, there are numerous options. I'm not sure why you would want to camp IN Juniper because it's such a short run, or if you could really find a good site to set up in the canyon, but you could camp near the put in, outside of the paid camp sites or in the paid campsites if you want, and lap it or something.
> ...


When I was there monday the sighn at the hot springs said "camping on gravel sites only" Didn't see a boat ramp, there was a spot that you could access the river from, but it was kinda flooding out.
You could have easily camped on the flat grasy bench 100 yd's up stream, but sighn made it sound like that was not allowed.
Been drug out of our tent in rain storms for camping in the wrong spot before, so did not camp there.

Ya, just pointing out that there's no camping in juniper because if you run little yampa and juniper together, you should not be thinking of camping there.

Thanks for additional beta!! Like I said, I have only run it once, and have only responded to peoples posts because they asked me questions.

Happy boating!


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## soggy_tortillas (Jul 22, 2014)

Yeah, it's a little confusing, especially with a lack of beta in the first place. The put in isn't at the actual hot springs, it's just downstream of it on the opposite side of the river. This is where the "improved" campsites are, if you think of paid sites in that way. There's day parking and campsites there, you have to pay for both. The river access is behind a green gate right next to day parking with a sign requesting that you close it behind you to prevent cattle from getting into the river.

I'm with you, I've only ran this section of river once. Maybe we can start a collection of beta here. Most of the stuff I found before our run seemed pretty outdated...


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