# Question for Groover owners.....



## Andy H. (Oct 13, 2003)

I'll tripcost $10 for whoever brings it to cover any RV dump fee and toilet paper / cleaning supplies but have never heard of charging people for use, especially as steep as you're talking about. If you're using a plain box in a land with no scat machines, there's your problem. The EcoSafe works beautifully without being a nasty mess.

-AH


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## JPG87 (Nov 10, 2014)

I've never charged anyone to use the groover, it's just another needed piece of gear on the river.

I have a small, 12 foot raft. I wanted to buy some group gear, so I bought a groover. I looked at it as a way to get invited on more trips. I don't have a kitchen, fire pan, etc., but I do have a groover and am willing to carry people's shit. 

If you don't like it, don't buy a groover, just hope someone else in your group is kind enough to let you shit in theirs. 

The river is a place for collaboration and good times, don't charge people to poo.


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## rivers2run (Jun 7, 2012)

If there is no scat machine we use wag bags or military waste bags. Just throw them in a dumpster aftter a trip they are approved for landfill. If there is a scat machine that is a pretty simple task.


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## caverdan (Aug 27, 2004)

:mrgreen::mrgreen:I charge for the toilet paper......not the groover use. I have this old toilet paper dispenser that takes quarters. You get 6 sheets for a quarter. I charge 3 quarters for a dollar if you have cash and run out of quarters. 2 quarters for a buck if it goes on your tab or credit card. Cigs are a $1.50 each. $2 if your tabbing them. End of trip.......my shits paid for.......literally:mrgreen::mrgreen:


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## Andy H. (Oct 13, 2003)

caverdan said:


> :mrgreen::mrgreen:I charge for the toilet paper......not the groover use. I have this old toilet paper dispenser that takes quarters. You get 6 sheets for a quarter. I charge 3 quarters for a dollar if you have cash and run out of quarters. 2 quarters for a buck if it goes on your tab or credit card. Cigs are a $1.50 each. $2 if your tabbing them. End of trip.......my shits paid for.......literally:mrgreen::mrgreen:


Gotta love free enterprise! And it makes sure people don't overstuff the groover with TP!

Groove on, Dan...

-AH


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## Aerocam (Jul 11, 2011)

I bring the groover and deal with all that entails. The upside, I never have to be on a cook crew


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## rtsideup (Mar 29, 2009)

My groover was a "raft warming" present from my kayak buddies when I bought my boat. The Mainer buddies who initiated this said that it was a tradition in their eastern boating circle. This, IMO, should be universal. Unless, of course, your kayaker friends don't shit.
As far as upkeep goes; I delegate set up and take down. I figure that owning it, carrying it, emptying it, and cleaning it are my responsibilities.


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## BCJ (Mar 3, 2008)

We pried the ribbing out of the underside of one rocket box lid, thereby making it flat steel. We then cut holes and bolted RV fittings on. We then glued the seal back in. We now have a rocket box lid with clean-out and hose bib fittings and don't need EcoSafe or anything that requires daily cleaning. Just crap in the box. Hard to miss. Less daily cleaning. Less mess. Fewer moving parts. Same box has been going strong for 12+ years. When it rusts out, get another rocket box. Keep same clean-out lid. Simple.


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## Whitewater Worthy Equip (Dec 11, 2013)

That is our method as well. We use a 30MM box that is powdercoated to the tank and made a custom aluminium box the same size for the seat/riser and setup box. Last time on the Rogue there was a huge line for the scatt machine so I opted for the RV clean out after the trip. 

I can get 40mm Rocket boxes prettty consistantly so hit us up if your in the market. 




BCJ said:


> We pried the ribbing out of the underside of one rocket box lid, thereby making it flat steel. We then cut holes and bolted RV fittings on. We then glued the seal back in. We now have a rocket box lid with clean-out and hose bib fittings and don't need EcoSafe or anything that requires daily cleaning. Just crap in the box. Hard to miss. Less daily cleaning. Less mess. Fewer moving parts. Same box has been going strong for 12+ years. When it rusts out, get another rocket box. Keep same clean-out lid. Simple.


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## mattman (Jan 30, 2015)

What Andy said.
Groover duty has got to be pretty much my favorite camp job anymore, it is so damn easy.
Especially compared to the work involved with supplying the kitchen.
My Eco safe is really pretty easy to dump.


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## mkashzg (Aug 9, 2006)

I'll take groover duty any day!😎


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## luckylauren (Apr 3, 2016)

I splurged and bought a whole set up. Because, who knows, maybe my man and I will want to go on a solo expedition.

The last river trip we went on, we set up the groover every day. The task takes minutes, often times it takes longer just to find a site for the groover, than actual groover set up.

If I could go back in time, I'd just buy a groover and no kitchen. 

But no, I never charge people for it. It's required equipment for every river. They can help pay for TP or help set up and break down. I usually see costs picked up in other departments.

I don't ever see anyone asking about the costs of sharing propane for the kitchen or costs for using the firepan, so I don't know why people think the shit-bucket is so special.


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## dirtbagkayaker (Oct 29, 2008)

Typically, I just camp around the corner from someone who already set up their groover and do midnight drops. Its exhilarating and calming all in the same chore. Ideally, I'm looking for the Johny with a view! But, after reading the posts, I thinking I should start tipping. Maybe leave a thank you note.


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## rubtheduck (Jun 20, 2016)

Koffler said:


> OK Groover owners: You set it up, take each down at each camp. And then at the end of the trip you get the joy of cleaning it out (ugh).
> 
> So here's what I am thinking-- charge a non-monetary fee for use of the Groover. Say a case of beer per boat, or maybe even per person???
> What do you do for compensation of dealing with everyone else's $h!T??? I'd like to hear how you handle it..............


Our system is the two people on groover duty do not have to cook or clean the entire trip. It is the best system I have come across.


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## rubtheduck (Jun 20, 2016)

I own a River Bank model I believe and they are amazing. Scat machine or RV park clean up is just too easy.


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## captishmael (Feb 8, 2008)

I put together big trips, 16-25 people with lots of the gear being my own, including groover. Just because I own it, doesn't mean I'm the only one that uses/cleans/repairs. I send out Sign Up Lists a month before a trip with titles and descriptions and ask for volunteers for the various positions required. On a big trip I ask for 2 Groover Dudes. Interesting to note that Groover Dude is always one of the first positions to be filled. I'm not sure why, but it really is one of the easier, less time consuming tasks, especially if there are 2 to share the work. Those Rocket Boxes do get heavy!

And no, I don't charge for the use of the groover, or tables, chairs, stoves, rafts, oars, PFDs, pots & pans, etc. It's just part of the big, happy expedition.


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## azpowell (Aug 14, 2014)

i was on a trip last fall and the TL did an outstanding job compensating people for their groovers and kitchen, groovers had a $10 rebate to the owner and kitchen was a $40 rebate in group costs.... both have consumables... groover has gloves, bleach wipes, chem, and tp and sometimes a dump fee (i pay a portapotty company to clean mine out)... kitchen has its own consumables, paper towels, propane, dish soap, sponges, ect....


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## azpowell (Aug 14, 2014)

one of the issues i have come across a few times is people not bringing enough tp. i suggest everyone bring a couple extra rolls just in case.


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## QuietHunter (Jun 8, 2010)

dirtbagkayaker said:


> Typically, I just camp around the corner from someone who already set up their groover and do midnight drops. Its exhilarating and calming all in the same chore. Ideally, I'm looking for the Johny with a view! But, after reading the posts, I thinking I should start tipping. Maybe leave a thank you note.


Thread hijack.

Just wondering how many have actually sniped another trips groover? I did so "accidentally" at Jack's creek on Deso when a group at #2 set up their groover really close to #1, so I went #2 mostly out of convenience, but partially because I thought it was ours. 
when seeing a nice setup on shore, and having the urge, I have considered storming the beach, being a sabateur and dropping a bomb, but never done it. Any good stories out there?


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## Gremlin (Jun 24, 2010)

Haha, the groover hijack made me laugh! On the Grand we stopped to scout Hermit's as none in our group had been down before. A small group was camped at the camp/ scout landing. They were cool about us going through their camp. After scouting the rapid my friend really felt a groove coming on! Seeing their Groover put him over the edge and he asked if he could use it! They graciously gave him a WagBag. We repaid the WagBag from our supply once we were back to the boats.


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## smhoeher (Jun 14, 2015)

I've never even thought of charging for the use of the groover. That's silly. 

A groover is just a mini outhouse like you see at a lot of campgrounds. It's just part of a river trip. If you don't want to use one, don't go.

That said, I have a set-up just like those of BCJ and Whitewater Worthy (RV fittings) that are really easy to use. Bought a seat at Goodwill and retro fitted it to sit securely. I keep the hoses, gloves, etc. in a burlap bag in the car or trailer. It's just a mini RV tank and easy to dump. Powder coating is a good idea and we spray the inside with Pam spray. It helps everything slide out. Some of the Visitor Center/Rest Areas (at least western Colorado at Fruita and Rifle) have FREE dumping stations. Fruita's close to home for me and on the way home for a lot of you. I had the pleasure of dumping eight full boxes after a Grand trip. No big deal other than the downpour!

I also have a day groover - you'll still need one on day runs like Westwater -that is just an ammo box with several wag bags and TP. No one has ever used it. 

Relax and have fun!


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## Osprey (May 26, 2006)

Yeah, charging for the groover is a slippery slope. Next thing you'll have folks wanting to charge to use a plate or the stove. Everybody pitches in in some way with the shared group gear they have. Signing up for a trip to me means signing on for a week of communal living. 

Our trips we always have teams and the rotation of duties stays pretty consistent. The teams might be families or maybe you pick bandanas out of a bag and each color is a team. Your day you do dinner, breakfast, lunch, (so by camp) then the next night/morning you are on groover duty. Then you are off. Or you could do a cook d/b/l, cleanup, groover, off night rotation. Cook crew sets up kitchen. Doesn't matter who brought what, just share the chores and only charge the group for consumables. It all tends to even out over time. With my spouse we tend to have one of us taking care of personal camp gear in the mornings and then the other is pitching in with the kitchen or chairs or whatever is needed for the group. 

Our trips tend to be 20+, so with several work groups you end up with one day or two of actual assigned work, but many more days of being off or just pitching in with miscellaneous stuff when you can. Not a bad trade off for a great trip!


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## Conundrum (Aug 23, 2004)

Allow the people to poop!


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## jeffsssmith (Mar 31, 2007)

I do kayak self support trips and don't bring beer or a groover. I just rely on the raft trips to offer us beer, which they do willingly, (thanks for that) and always just use their groovers too. I've trained myself to be able to poop anytime and just wait till I see a camp and help myself. Maybe I'll need to start leaving a donation though if people start charging, just to be fair. 


Sent from my iPhone using Mountain Buzz


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## Andy H. (Oct 13, 2003)

jeffsssmith said:


> I do kayak self support trips and don't bring beer or a groover. I just rely on the raft trips to offer us beer, which they do willingly, (thanks for that) and always just use their groovers too. I've trained myself to be able to poop anytime and just wait till I see a camp and help myself. Maybe I'll need to start leaving a donation though if people start charging, just to be fair.


Sounds like you've got this part down to an art. But what about hanging out in the trip leader's camp chair and hitting on his girlfriend while you're drinking his beer?


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## smhoeher (Jun 14, 2015)

If you're on a river that requires a permit you must have some type of "washable, leak-proof, and reusable toilet system" whether you're on a self supported kayak trip or an expedition. I think sneaking into someone's camp in the middle of the night and dropping a load in their groover is, well, a shitty thing to do. That's when there should be a fee or penalty! A wag bag and a mayo jar (twist on lid) is an acceptable groover if the trip is just a night or two.


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## dirtbagkayaker (Oct 29, 2008)

Wag bags and Mayo jars are not except able in Idaho.


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## rtsideup (Mar 29, 2009)

We were camped at elephant rock on the Ark this summer and had our groover poached numerous times. I don't really care as long as the poachers are clean and we are not at capacity, better than the dirtbags shitting in the woods. I would like to catch someone in the act; with a loaded super-soaker.:lol:


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## gobigohome (Jul 18, 2007)

JPG87 said:


> I've never charged anyone to use the groover, it's just another needed piece of gear on the river.
> 
> I have a small, 12 foot raft. I wanted to buy some group gear, so I bought a groover. I looked at it as a way to get invited on more trips. I don't have a kitchen, fire pan, etc., but I do have a groover and am willing to carry people's shit.
> 
> ...


Thank you and I wish more people had this thinking!!


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## CB Rob (Feb 13, 2010)

Some good replys here. 
A groover is just another piece of gear, and when you get a good setup cleaning it out is not a big deal.
Ive also made a custom lid for a big rocket box. Cleanout takes 10 minutes, at least it goez that fast in fruita CO.

Thank of it as just a piece of gear, one that may unnecessarily gross some people out.
Some bring the stove, others a riverwing, etc.


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