# Wilderness First Responder Training: Thoughts? and anyone want to join?



## westwatercuban (May 19, 2021)

Following as I am also interested in the info. My biggest issue has always been timing for the course.


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## Roseldo (Aug 27, 2020)

If you can find an WAFA course, they are still pretty solid but a fair bit shorter than the WFR. Last I checked, though, availability was really limited for this.

If you have the time, WFR is a great course.


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## Amoon (Jun 5, 2018)

westwatercuban said:


> Following as I am also interested in the info. My biggest issue has always been timing for the course.


I should have included that the specific course I’m looking at is the Hybrid option. Makes timing easier for a working guy.

A typical course seems to take a week or more and has little expectation about showing up with any knowledge. This hybrid course expects you to study about 50 hours of course curriculum before you arrive. Then you spend only three days in person.
Here is the link: Wilderness Life Support: WFR

NOLS, of course, has a great name associated with it. But timing and expense (and a recommendation from a friend in SAR) led me to this option.


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## tBatt (May 18, 2020)

I took WFR in Moab with NOLS in April of 2013. Pre-covid, hybrid wasn't an option. 
I took it privately but was river guiding at the time.
If you can make it work for you, 1000% do it. There is so much information you couldn't learn in a WFA class. Learning to split/support an injury and long term care to prevent infection is most of what WFA will teach you. WFR gets into recording vitals much more in depth, identifying trends, and the biggest thing, IMO, was learning to recognize "how bad is bad, when you're out in the way out" and knowing when you should evac someone. 

Moab is definitely busy then. I camped for the whole class, but I was also 21 and didn't have much cash. Look into a hotel or airbnb sooner rather than later.


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## no1kobefan (Aug 29, 2019)

I have a WFR. It's totally worth it if you have the time and money to do it. Hopefully you never have to use your training, however in the event that you do, you'll feel confident with the skills you have gained.

When I took the course, there was an actual EMT in the class. He said the overlap was about 75% (the difference being, in the front country you'd learn how to use medical equipment, while in the backcountry we learned improvisational skills).

I originally pursued my WFR for a company I was guiding with, but I am so glad to have it apart from that.


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## sfluckiger (Aug 18, 2018)

I have not taken the WFR but I was an EMT on ski patrol and an ambulance service many years ago so have much of that background. In recent years I have been required to take the WFA course to coach mountain biking for high school and while it isn't nearly as comprehensive as the WFR, it is a good refresher to my EMT background. If I hadn't had the EMT training, I would definitely want to have the full WFR as apposed to the limited scope WFA. I am a father of three and typically boat with other families on several multi day trips a year and while we've never had a serious injury (knock on wood), I recommend everyone take some level of training just in case and if you have the time, WFR is an excellent option.


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## Bigwaterforeveryone (Feb 7, 2018)

I did the WFR training back in my guiding/outdoor ed days (pre-kids), now I am primarily a non-commercial recreator. Is having the WFR cert essential to be an outdoor adventuring father? No. Is it great information/experience to have that will make you far more equipped to deal with a host of first aid situations when you are far from definitive medical care? You betcha! 

If you can pull off the 9 or 10 days for the course and you consider it worthwhile use of your limited free time, then go for it. You will not regret it. Annnd, a Wilderness Advanced First Aid (WAFA) is 1/2 the cost, about 1/2 the time but will give you way more than 1/2 the pertinent information you would need to be able to address the vast majority of the issues that you will face. Either one will make you a valuable asset to any group you get into the wilds with.


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## k2andcannoli (Feb 28, 2012)

April in Moab...my god you'll have it easy. Mine was in January in the rain and snow of the WV forest. Work paid for the class and paid me to be there, only way I was willing to participate. Did I learn stuff?... Absolutely. Have I already forgotten most of it?... You betcha! The only still that still stands out all these years later, besides the freezing cold, is the awesomely gruesome faux-injuries the instructor set for us. A girl actually puked... It was great.


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## Amoon (Jun 5, 2018)

Thank you everyone. Great perspective. I really appreciate it. I’ve already carved out the money and the time, so I’m going for it. 

WestWaterCuban, I’ll assume you live a lot closer to Westwater than you do to Cuba. Let me know if your interested in joining the Moab class and doing something after (maybe even dawning our wet suits and going down westwater, or canyoneering, or whatever). I have a friend who is trying to make up his mind as well. Either way I’m doing one of the classes this spring (Moab or SLC).

thanks again!


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## westwatercuban (May 19, 2021)

Amoon said:


> Thank you everyone. Great perspective. I really appreciate it. I’ve already carved out the money and the time, so I’m going for it.
> 
> WestWaterCuban, I’ll assume you live a lot closer to Westwater than you do to Cuba. Let me know if your interested in joining the Moab class and doing something after (maybe even dawning our wet suits and going down westwater, or canyoneering, or whatever). I have a friend who is trying to make up his mind as well. Either way I’m doing one of the classes this spring (Moab or SLC).
> 
> thanks again!


Thanks for the invite! If I could swing the cash and also be able to take the time off work I would take you up on that offer. If the tax return pans out I'm looking at doing a class this summer. I have summers off so more free time. Might try to take a swift water course then too. But this if I can convince the wife to not redo the floors in the house 😂


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## Paco (Aug 3, 2007)

Definitely worth it if you can swing it.
If (when) the s*** hits the fan, after the initial freak out, you'll have some knowledge and practice to draw on to help you make good decisions. As someone mentioned above, you'll forget a lot of the details relatively quickly if you aren't using it a lot. Recerts every 2 years help, but don't forget to keep your book with you as reference and memory jogger.
You won't have any trouble finding folks in your class that are up for doing something outddorsy after class.
But if they're cramming all of the hands-on practice and scenarios into 3 days, you may be too tired to do much...


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## -mikeb- (Feb 25, 2021)

Also check out courses through Desert Mountain Medicine, Wilderness Medicine Courses - Desert Mountain Medicine -
I’ve been certified through them for the past twelve years for work and couldn’t recommend them more. They also offer hybrid courses with a few other locations as Moab can be a hard spot to find room to stay these days. Well worth the efforts, it has given me a lot of piece of mind as I recreate with my family.


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## Amoon (Jun 5, 2018)

westwatercuban said:


> Thanks for the invite! If I could swing the cash and also be able to take the time off work I would take you up on that offer. If the tax return pans out I'm looking at doing a class this summer. I have summers off so more free time. Might try to take a swift water course then too. But this if I can convince the wife to not redo the floors in the house 😂


Good luck with that. If you do take either course (or both) please post back here with your thoughts afterward. I’ll do the same.


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## Amoon (Jun 5, 2018)

-mikeb- said:


> Also check out courses through Desert Mountain Medicine, Wilderness Medicine Courses - Desert Mountain Medicine -
> I’ve been certified through them for the past twelve years for work and couldn’t recommend them more. They also offer hybrid courses with a few other locations as Moab can be a hard spot to find room to stay these days. Well worth the efforts, it has given me a lot of piece of mind as I recreate with my family.


Thanks. I’ll check them out too as I’m getting ready to sign up.


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## flowguide (Aug 28, 2011)

Amoon said:


> Hello Buzz,
> 
> I’m a middle aged dad who is taking his kids on more and more adventures all the time. I’ve had basic first aid training many times over the years. But recently I’ve started to wonder if that is sufficient.
> 
> ...



Hi, I am a Wilderness First Aid Instructor through the American Red Cross and for the most part, patient management is pretty much the same with WFR and WFA, but WFR goes into more detail and a few extra tricks of the trade. You would be fine with the WFA. I am taking the WFR in Moab in April as I haven't taken one in years and feel like I need to get current on Wilderness Medicine so that I teach my Wilderness First Aid with the most current practices. Unfortunately, I am a female whose husband would not like that I share a room with a strange male for a week.

Hope that helps. BTW, Renewal for both WFR and WFA is a recert of Wilderness First Aid. That is how much they are similar.

Flowguide


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## Ranger_R (Feb 22, 2019)

Definitely worth investing the time and energy in WFR, for the kind of places you like to go.. The small amount of extra time is a very worthwhile investment..

Look for instructors who have affiliation with NOLS, WMA, SOLO or those who are associated with SAR groups..

I'm a retired Ranger and WEMT Instructor and we LOVED having lots of folks with that type of training in the backcountry! It made it safer for everyone..


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## rtsideup (Mar 29, 2009)

I was initially NOLS trained in the early nineties. Took a WFR in the early 00's to get certified for a ski patrol job that I never took (thank jebuss). 
My takeaways are: Take something! WFR's are often required for employment guiding/patrolling, etc. In order to keep your cert. your need to take a refresher every two years. I think that this is super wise and a huge pain in the ass at the same time. Because I wasn't using my cert professionally, I let it expire. Now, from a cert stand point, I'm at ground zero.
My guess is that a WFA will give you 99% of a WFR without the cert necessary for employment.
That being said; "use it or lose it!". I could definitely benefit from a refresher!


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## Cowie (Aug 12, 2012)

WFR’s are worth their weight in gold for folks that spend a lot of time in the backcountry. Pretty handy in the front country as well.
As others mentioned if you don’t have time a WAFA will get you most of what you need.
Aerie Backcountry Medicine based out of Missoula MT usually has options for basic 1st Aid/CPR through WEMT. They put together a quality class.


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## Amoon (Jun 5, 2018)

Such great advice and from a variety of view points. I’m really glad I asked the question here. Thanks to everyone.

As an update, I think I'm actually going to sign up for the Desert Mountain Medicine course that MikeB suggested earlier. Came to find out that there are about 6 groups that actually set and agree upon curriculum for the “official” WFR course. NOLS was the only name I recognized (and they are a big name). DMM is also one of the 6. I think that’s worth something…

Compared to the Wilderness Medicine of Utah course (which I have no doubt is a fine course), the DMM hybrid option is a little more hands on, which I think will be beneficial, and try’s harder to do a larger portion of teaching outside the classroom and even a bit at night. Again, I think that’s better for me. I’m a great book student on my own (ie I don’t tend to need a classroom teacher if the material is in the book). Hands on instruction I crave. The DMM course is two in-person days longer and $200 more. So you pay more to get more.
As many of you have alluded, I also think that if I’m going to spend the time and money to go 80% of the way there, I may as well spend the next 20% to ensure I get everything I came for.


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## Amoon (Jun 5, 2018)

flowguide said:


> Unfortunately, I am a female whose husband would not like that I share a room with a strange male for a week.


My wife feels the same way 😂. 
Good luck in your course. And thanks for the input.


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

I am retired from a lifetime of volunteer service on numerous ambulance services. Was a W-EMT at one point, was young and wanted more skills. Took a WFR with a friend that wanted a "buddy" along, was 15 years ago, and audited a WFA class.

My 2 cents.

ANY training you can get, and stay current on, is worthwhile, IMHO there would be a lot fewer lasting "memories" from things gone wrong in the back-country, be it bicycling (have a young friend that's now pretty much a quadriplegic from a mountain bicycling accident last year, wife and 2 kids, mid 30's indestructible sort), hiking, boating, whatever. The WFA will serve you well as the average Joe, as has been mentioned it doesn't go much into charting, PT tracking, but you do learn the basics, and how to communicate them to SAR in the event you need their help. 

I can't stress enough having at least an inreach sat link along in the wilderness, it's available, why wouldn't you ? You can among other things, get medical advice from an ED in the wilderness, arrange for a helo or other evacuation if warranted, highly effective and use the Iridium satellite network. The others, zolo etc may or may not work, and aren't that much less expensive, they are fine for texting your girlfriend, but in an emergency? When you need it, you NEED it. Plans can be turned on and off at will via a webpage) before your journeys into the backcountry (they (service plans) are the real cost) and who cares if you go over your message limit in an emergency. Just sayin. The more expensive ones $400.00 used on ebay, link to your smart phone's keyboard, which is a LOT easier to type on in an emergency than the "grid" input method you have without one, have GPS and maps, weather forecasts, well worth the investment and could save a life when the worst happens. Seconds DO count sometimes..

WF*'s give you the stop the breathing, start the bleeding and treat for ETOH (alcohol) sort of stuff. (Yes, EMS humor) and at the end of the day, the chest going up and down, and the blood going round and round and not leaking out, you get these skills, and the knowledge to use them in an emergency to not make things worse, and you'll be better off than 90% of the organisms wandering around the face of this rock we call earth. Nope, you can't fix everything in every condition, but you sure can try and do your best, and that's a lot in an emergency, IF you have the skills.

Using branches and torn t-shirts for splints, the latter for tamponades and tourniquets, that sort of shit will go a LONG way. As well, you will learn "Cool, Calm and Collected" skills, and how to assess for color, size, location, movement, texture, symmetry, odors, and sounds as you assess each PT and develop a treatment plan. Remember, you can't control the situation if you're in a panic. You'll do the best you can with what skillset you have, and the larger your skillset, the more you can apply to PT care.

Palpation, Asculation (listening for various lung, heart, and bowel sounds with a stethoscope) and other important skills will be taught. It makes failure, and a negative PT outcome a lot less likely.

Good on you for wanting education, HIGHLY recommend any training you're willing to get, no matter WFA / WFR / EMT-B, WEMT, and even basic first aid and CPR, and keep them current. Protocols change as best practices change all the time, 5 or 10 year old information may not be the best for your PT, stay current. And no, you don't need a hospital's worth of gear to be effective... But that's another topic.

YMMV


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## Amoon (Jun 5, 2018)

Returning to finish up this thread

I took the WFR this past week with Desert Mountain Medicine. The location was a site along the professor creek outside of Moab Utah. The instructor / provider was coordinated with Utah State University. I arrived on site on Sunday and stayed on site (slept in my ford expedition) until Friday evening at 6:00. I did 30 hours of online study and quizzes before coming to in person class.

Right off let me give this course a full 5-star review. I feel like I got an education. They where organized. They knew exactly what they where teaching, and they taught it clearly and had us reviewing book knowledge constantly and practicing repeatedly.

100% recommend to anyone who, like me, has been First Aid / CPR certified several times and still felt unprepared for back country emergencies with family and friends. I’m essentially the trip leader on every trip we take and I felt strongly that we where not prepared enough for a bad situation.

I feel much more prepared now. Impossible to be totally prepared for everything, but I’m feeling much better.

I also recommend doing the on-sight (away from home) course for at least 5 days. That presents its own challenges, but I was able to get much further immersed in the material and review with fellow class mates a lot. I also got to know some rad people.

It is a significant investment in both time and money. I totally get the fact that many people won’t be able to swing that. Only recently have i gotten into a position where work life / home life / and personal finances have aligned for me to do this. If you can make the investment, I highly recommend.

Thanks again for all the great input back in February when I was trying to decide what to do. The Buzz community is awesome!


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## sonofdad (Jul 21, 2015)

thanks for the follow-up @Amoon sounds like you had a great experience with the class and desert mountain medicine 
although an on-sight 5 day course would be ideal, i'm curious if any of you buzzards have an experience with this purely online WFR option?


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