# low water skull line



## kayakfreakus (Mar 3, 2006)

In a raft or kayak? I have run right before in a kayak at multiple levels, but without being a rafter, I do not see how that would be a preferred line at any level, from my recollection seems like it would be squeeze at low flows for most rafts....


----------



## coloradopaddler (Jun 16, 2005)

*right around skull?*

you never HAVE to go right around skull. the typical line is right of center to left. a sneak on the right is available at certain flows though, depending on craft.


----------



## jeffsssmith (Mar 31, 2007)

I just ran it at that 2200-2600 level (twice) and you can still run left in a raft. A little lower, at say 1800 or so, maybe lower you need to go right because there's too many guard rocks to go left.


----------



## nicho (Mar 18, 2009)

Talking about a raft, is the rock sticking out of the water at around 2200-2700? We may go run it this week. I have seen pictures of people getting stuck on the right at real low flows and at the same flows people still going left in rafts.


----------



## rg5hole (May 24, 2007)

huh, I must be on a different page. I am under the impression that you always eat the meat of Skull, every time, forever, no matter what. The rock is showing you say, I say BooF the shit outta that rock, raft or no raft.


----------



## troutslayer (Sep 14, 2009)

I ran Skull today at 2650, you would not have wanted to hit skull. The channel to the left of skull is was very easy to fit through in a 14' raft and even at lower water it is easy to fit through the two rocks. The BLM fire management was taking out tamarack at miners cabin, lower hole, and little d looks SO MUCH better. Still lots of very large ice banks on the river mostly through the rapid sections. All the campsites were melted out. The shortcut under the highway is doable in a trailer all the mud under the bridge is dried up. Happy Boating the WW is open for action and the river should start to be rising daily.


----------



## richp (Feb 27, 2005)

Hi,

I've run it as low as 1350 in a raft. While the left starts to get tight for anything more than about 7 feet wide -- that is, the space between Razor Rock and the left bank -- it is very doable. 

There is a "right of Razor, left of Skull" run. bit it requires a bit of extra maneuvering because of two holes in the center of the channel.

The right run is there at those levels as well. My 16 foot NRS cat just barely squeezes between Skull Rock and the right wall.

FWIW.

Rich Phillips


----------



## LSB (Mar 23, 2004)

A hole forms between razor rock and the right wall at low water = 1500 or so. It looks sweet from the tongue ... like you can ease right up to skull rock and cushion off the pillow but the hole might launch you in a raft before you get there. In a kayak that right of the rock line is good to go.


----------



## kazak4x4 (May 25, 2009)

Thanks for the info, we are going down this Sunday and the question came up to go left or right of Skull. Is it easier to scout Skull at low water? I actually never stopped and scouted, always ran it blind.


----------



## troutslayer (Sep 14, 2009)

Skull is very easy to scout at low water if you even need to. you would really be a weenie arm if you can't get over to the right side at lower flows below 5,000. At higher flows it is a little harder to get over to the right side where you need to be to break the lateral wave.


----------



## Skyman (Jun 26, 2006)

Alex, you running your new raft? If so, I bet you're excited.


----------



## kazak4x4 (May 25, 2009)

I sure am! Will post some pics after


----------



## nicho (Mar 18, 2009)

So at what water level does Skull Rock begin to become exposed.


----------



## summitraftgirl (Jul 23, 2008)

We just did WW last weekend and the weekend before. First weekend razor rock was barely sticking out, but you could see it easily to avoid it. Second weekend (last weekend) you could see a LOT of razor rock. We ran left the entire way both weekends in our 16' cat with no problems. I would not hit the hole, as it was clearly a pour-over. We did have 2 14' rafts run right of the hole, but it was a VERY tight squeeze and neither were intentionally running that line. Sock-It-To-Me was actually the rapid to be on your game for, in my opinion. Surprisingly big waves at lower flows and you have to really work to avoid the Magnetic Wall.


----------



## kazak4x4 (May 25, 2009)

summitraftgirl, that is what I remember from my 2,900cfs flow. SITM was the biggest problem, that was the closest I came to flipping my raft, that right lateral wave is nasty. Thanks for clarification on the Skull.


----------



## Matty (May 13, 2004)

Skull is the most feared and talked about class III rapid in the entire world. Start right move left. Not sure why it is so scary to people, SITM has been the bigger hit on every Westwater trip I have ever been on. Why is it that people fear Skull more than SITM?


----------



## Dave Frank (Oct 14, 2003)

I agree that skull is easy, but come on it looks way more intimidating than anything else in the Canyon. The Room of Doom? Rock of shock? Way scarier than the magnetic rock below SITM.

Skull flips may more boats than sitm, according to rangers.


----------



## thunderfoot (Mar 15, 2009)

IT'S PRETTY HARD TO SCOUT AT ANY LEVEL. GO RIVER RIGHT TO LEFT BETWEEN RAZOR AND SKULL AND YOUR FINE. THAT WAY YOU MISS THE ROOM OF DOOM AND SHOCK ROCK AND CAN EDDY OUT FOR OTHER BOATERS


----------



## lmaciag (Oct 10, 2003)

Just got off a 2500 cfs run of Westy. 

Skull Rapid - At this level, you can see Razor Rock from above in a raft. Apparently, you cannot see it from a kayak. The move is the same as at higher water. The smoothest line was to pull a little harder left and get LEFT of Razor Rock (the space between RR and Skull was a bit tight). The water is moving much slower and there is plenty of time to do this. We did have two rafts bump RR, but they all made it around the left side. No consequences to the Room at this level. We pulled in there to watch the rest of the group come through. It was nice to see a different perspective.

Couple other notes: 
The hole below Surprise, but above Skull 'surprised' a few. 
Bowling Alley was a nice little hit. 
SITM wasn't bad, just a little steeper on the right, I went a little left. Definitely not the same punch as in the low 4k area. It is different every time.
Last Chance was actually a note worthy rapid. Left was a decent hit, right side still goes.

Agreed about the hype on Skull... you are pulling around a hole, just timing. SITM is a bigger hit.

Tons of snow down there. Seven or eight feet high in places. Still a wall on RR at SITM. Been down there earlier in previous years and have never seen it with that much.

We camped at LLD and the tammies are gone. So much nicer!


----------



## kazak4x4 (May 25, 2009)

lmaciag when did you guys take out? We took out last night at around 6pm. Wonder if we bumped into you guys.

I got a video of pretty much what you have described. SITM made a swimmer out of one of our newer rowers, he approached it from the river right but didn't square off for the lateral and got thrown out. A couple of smaller boats sneaked on the left of SITM and had no issues at all. I went right in the hole and had a fun ride. 

Last Chance was a fun ride, everyone sneaked on the right (too bumpy for my liking), I went left and hit the hole on the left side (very surprising!). Great run and lots of splashing.

A lot of my party took the sneak between RR and Skull, we all were able to sneak through, even in my 16 foot Maravia Cadillac. 

Great day to be on the river! I got sunburned already ... go figure.


----------



## lmaciag (Oct 10, 2003)

I'm a little burned, too!

Our gang was just finishing up around then... I was in a silver 4runner w/a cargo platform at the top left of the ramp (looking from the river).

It sure was a beautiful day on the river! And, no wind.


----------



## kazak4x4 (May 25, 2009)

Ya ok, I went around you in my Honda Pilot with a trailer and a green Maravia.... small world 

I was parked on the right of the road above the drying dock when you drove off, for some reason your car caught my eye... odd! LOL


----------



## Skyman (Jun 26, 2006)

kazak4x4 said:


> lmaciag when did you guys take out? We took out last night at around 6pm. Wonder if we bumped into you guys.
> 
> I got a video of pretty much what you have described. SITM made a swimmer out of one of our newer rowers, he approached it from the river right but didn't square off for the lateral and got thrown out. A couple of smaller boats sneaked on the left of SITM and had no issues at all. I went right in the hole and had a fun ride.
> 
> ...


So when do we get to see your video? And you just gotta tell me how your new boat performed!


----------



## kazak4x4 (May 25, 2009)

Will post a video either later tonight or tomorrow. We didn't get home until midnight and were too tired to edit it. The boat did awesome, I was a bit front heavy so had a hard time tracking. Maravia tracks different than i-beam boats. Just got to get used to it. But it performed awesome in the big stuff, I was very impressed.


----------



## nicho (Mar 18, 2009)

Looking forward to the video. Sounds like the move at this level is the same as always, right to left. I knew going right of Skull Rock didn't sound right, maybe at really low flows.


----------



## kazak4x4 (May 25, 2009)

Having issues processing video with my new camera (GoPro HD), but should be done soon. Here is a pic of the Skull rapid from the top. 

A question, is the Razor rock the one on the left or in the middle of the river? Because the Skull rock (which the water pours over) is further down a bit.










By the way, this is after I made the Right to Left move and straightened the boat

While we are at it, hitting the SITM right in the gut (right lateral). The wave flipped one of our drivers out in the boat before mine. My boat had no issues coming up to the surface.


----------



## lmaciag (Oct 10, 2003)

kazak4x4 said:


> A question, is the Razor rock the one on the left or in the middle of the river? Because the Skull rock (which the water pours over) is further down a bit.


I'm now having the same question. Looks like Razor Rock is FAR left (looks like it would slice rubber anyway). What I thought was RR is the one just to the right of your raft in the photo. The tight line I was referring to is the one between the rock to the right of your bow and Skull Rock more right and downstream. I took the same line as you, as did everyone else in our gang.


----------



## CUBuffskier (Jul 7, 2005)

very cool wide perspective!


----------



## Skyman (Jun 26, 2006)

I think razor rock is the one on the left. I've never seen it that exposed before. I hear it is the worse when it is just hidden under the surface waiting for the unsuspecting raft to float over and slice. Wow SITM looks like a big hit. The punchiest I have ever run SITM was at about 8000. Did it at 5000 and it was still a big hit, but didn't seem as bad as the 8K number. Or, maybe I was just more ready for it. Great pics, can't wait to see the vid! What size is your new boat? It looks narrow.


----------



## kazak4x4 (May 25, 2009)

It's 22" tubes, 16 feet long, it looks like it because of my fish eye camera.


----------



## calirado (Feb 11, 2010)

Razor Rock is the one on the right in the pic. The one on the left is never an issue b/c you can never realy get over there. The reason that Skull is so feared (over SITM) is b/c @ high water skull is a massive hole and all the water is moving fast into it. Its hard to fit more than a couple of boats in the scout-eddy and @ high water its hrd to get right to start your right to left momentum. And the room of doom becomes an issue at high water and the rock of shock.


----------



## kazak4x4 (May 25, 2009)

calirado said:


> Razor Rock is the one on the right in the pic. The one on the left is never an issue b/c you can never realy get over there. The reason that Skull is so feared (over SITM) is b/c @ high water skull is a massive hole and all the water is moving fast into it. Its hard to fit more than a couple of boats in the scout-eddy and @ high water its hrd to get right to start your right to left momentum. And the room of doom becomes an issue at high water and the rock of shock.


My exact thoughts on the RR and the reasons about Skull. I have seen the Rock of Shock at 15.5k cfs and I was seriously scared of that monster. If you made a mistake and did make it through the Skull hole itself, you will be flipping on Rock of Shock at that level. The current is so strong that you can't steer clear of it and after the hit the current pushes you into the Room of Doom.

I actually observed a cataraft doing the exact thing while I was sitting on the left wall explaining to my newbie passengers what not to do.


----------



## Ture (Apr 12, 2004)

I'm scared of Skull. Not scared of SITM or any other rapid in that canyon. None of them are nearly as memorable as Skull. It is a classic. There is much more going on there than any of the other rapids. Pretty easy for a kayak, not so much for a raft. A lot of flips happen there.

At high water I've seen some expensive gear recirculating in the room of doom. There were no takers  

I'll be on the oars in a raft for the first time on Westwater this year and all I'm thinking about is getting my wife through Skull without flipping. I'll kick SITM in it's butthole, it's Skull that has me thinking.


----------



## kazak4x4 (May 25, 2009)

Most deadly flips happened in Funnel Falls, which led to flush drowning before Skull.

Most dramatic flips within my group happened in SITM over past years. Most feared rapid among my friends is Skull. To each their own I guess, as far as we all arrive at Cisco in one piece and with all of our gear.


----------



## summitraftgirl (Jul 23, 2008)

yep, razor rock is on the right in the photo. the first weekend we did it this season (3/13-3/14) it was BARELY sticking out, like mere inches. couldn't even see it until we were right next to it. i remember us even mentioning how much of a deal-breaker it would be had we not have been far enough left. the second weekend it was out enough to be able to see it from the top of the rapid. i can totally understand why skull is the rapid to worry about, especially at higher flows. there are lots of obstacles to make sure to avoid (razor rock, skull hole, room of doom, rock of shock), and these all get more serious as the flows go up. with SITM, i feel it's worse at lower flows. the waves, especially the right lateral, just pack a mean punch. i too took video of every rapid from funnel on the weekend of 3/20-3/21 - i was on the front of a 16' cat, so it was a FUN ride. i even pointed out razor rock while going through skull. it was easy, compared to SITM. last chance even had a nice wave towards the end that took us by surprise. in fact, in the video you can hear my husband and me saying how we had forgotten about that from the weekend before. once i get them edited i'll be sure to post them. westwater is awesome. i sure do love that feeling of excitement and anticipation when you're in the middle of the rapids. i always get a little sad after last chance - it goes by too fast! again, i'll get my videos up asap. have fun, everyone


----------



## hotchkiss (Jun 17, 2006)

the line is always left. running it to the right is just a bad idea. right into the meat is a better idea than running against that wall. you don't tuck your oars in time and someone's getting hurt. you'd be better off taking the chance of flipping than driving an oar through your sternum. if the water is really low, just make your move later. you just have to be more patient at low water. the right to left move is ALWAYS there.


----------



## jeffsssmith (Mar 31, 2007)

hotchkiss said:


> the line is always left. the right to left move is ALWAYS there.


At 1500 CFS all the rafts had to go right because the left move was very rocky and almost impossible. There is a time when the right move is better, it just hardly ever runs that low.


----------



## kazak4x4 (May 25, 2009)

We had HD widescreen video and regular res cameras going, so still don't know how to compile/edit 720p HD 60fps video yet...so things look a bit out of perspective.

YouTube - Westwater 2,400 cfs low water


----------



## pinemnky13 (Jun 4, 2007)

Nice video, now I know what to expect this weekend


----------



## CUBuffskier (Jul 7, 2005)

Great video Kazak4x4 - how big are your source video files from your camera? I'd be happy to make an HD quicktime for you to upload to youtube if you'd like. This is some of the best westy footy i've seen.


----------



## kazak4x4 (May 25, 2009)

Thanks CU, the files are huge, I got 3 main unedited files which are 755MB, 1.6GB and 1.5GB. I uploaded 755MB to Youtube, waiting for processing. Some folks were asking me about GoPro HD camera so I thought Youtube could save 720p res, we will see still processing.

I have been trying all programs I could find, no program out there does 60fps video. Sony Vegas software I have does HD widescreen 720p, but downgrades it to 30fps


----------



## CUBuffskier (Jul 7, 2005)

Youtube does nice when you supply it with 720p for sure. Final Cut Pro can edit on a 60fps timeline, but what are you trying to achieve? If you put your 60fps footage on a 29.97 or 30fps timeline it will have a nice slow motion look to it. 

Your source files are probably H264 codec I would guess so they should upload directly to youtube nicely without editing as well. 

This makes me want to get on another Westwater trip this fall.


----------



## young004 (May 14, 2009)

Great footage. What is she like in mid June?


----------



## kazak4x4 (May 25, 2009)

young004 said:


> Great footage. What is she like in mid June?


I assume you mean Skull? Mid June is usually around teens, maybe low teens. It's the same move, except if you mess up you will be greeted by the Rock of Shock, which is a huge flipper rock. Also Skull becomes a very powerful pour into a big hole, so you want to steer away from it, but the left sneak becomes easier to achieve. That has been my experience so far.

My favorite level is around 9k I think, Last Chance at that level is a blast! Right over the top.


----------



## Chuch (May 23, 2008)

I have heard of the right line around skull referred to as the "King's Line", any one else ever heard it called that? 
At low levels (when the skull rock is a big island) it is a tight squeeze for a 14' raft, but very doable. Just make sure you pull your oars in properly as there is only enough room for your rubber.


----------



## lmaciag (Oct 10, 2003)

Chuch said:


> I have heard of the right line around skull referred to as the "King's Line", any one else ever heard it called that?
> At low levels (when the skull rock is a big island) it is a tight squeeze for a 14' raft, but very doable. Just make sure you pull your oars in properly as there is only enough room for your rubber.


I've only heard it referred to as "The Poop Chute"...


----------

