# Recruiting for the Grand Canyon! Put-in 2/26/23



## Mateo&theriver (Jan 28, 2021)

It might just be your lucky day! I am looking to recruit 1-3sh people for the Grand Canyon, put in on 2/26/23, so it is a bit of a short turnaround. I am looking for at least 1 experienced rafter, preferably who has done the GC and is up for being the qualified boater on the trip (Our QBO just got a new job and bailed...) Bonus points if you know of a couple of kayakers who want to join! Extra bonus points if you live in the PNW and we can do a few meet-ups before the trip. 

Details:

Put-in: 2/26/23 - Lee's Ferry
Take-out: 3/19/23 - Pearce Ferry
Canyon Reo Outfitters - Deluxe Package (with 8 people, cost is $1995 each). This includes all of the rafting gear, food prep and packaging. 

A brief rundown of the group (will discuss further with interested people): We are mostly in our late 30s/early 40s. Have one younger couple in their late 20s (they are rafting guides and will be oaring two of the boats). While this will be everyone's first time down the GC, we have mixed levels of rafting and doing multi-day trips, and along with the two guides, three of us have taken a two-day swift water rescue course. Send me a message if you are interested and let's chat!

Cheers, 

Matt


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## carvedog (May 11, 2005)

So....what size is the permit? You have a couple of guides who are rowing a pair of oar boats ( I am always suspicious of people who say oaring fwiw) and you talk about three of you have taken swiftwater but you are looking for a rafter and two kayakers.....but you quote a Canyon Reo trip for 8????? Math is wonky for me. And as a rafter going to the Grand I would like to have a passenger. Not that I can go, just trying to suss out the unanswered questions that pop into my head when I read something like this.


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## Jensen-2006 (Mar 30, 2012)

Huh huh......he said Oaring......huh huh


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## zbaird (Oct 11, 2003)

Sounds to me like they have 5 and need up to 3. One rower so the couple that can row doesn't have to be on different boats and preferably 2 kayakers so they dont have to cram 4 on each boat. Just my .02 assumption.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

Jensen-2006 said:


> Huh huh......he said Oaring......huh huh












That's when the oars come in. Doing their little behind-shake for the menfolk.


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## zbaird (Oct 11, 2003)

Oarin? 







Awalys preferred rowing but maybe Ive been confused.


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## Dangerfield (May 28, 2021)

Oaring - Middle or Old English - meaning still valid.

Have a r-oaring good time down in the canyon. I am sure you will find some respectably qualified boatmen/women to join in via private message.









I hope Santa swing's by Amazon and get's one of these for me.


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## Randaddy (Jun 8, 2007)

Why do you want kayakers? That's like wanting a tapeworm or a boot on your car wheel. You need four boats, six qualified boat operators, and two tag alongs or kayakers that are willing to do their share of camp work.

Eight person trips are magical, unless it's 2023 and the water is low AF and your crew is all inexperienced. Then you could be set up for a nightmare. Also, 21 days with a Feb launch is a waste of days and an insult to the river gods. Whoever has the PTO restriction at their job is off the trip. They can file their TPS reports on time and you'll have a chiller vibe down there as a result.

Sorry, but just because you won a permit and outfitters will rent you boats, doesn't mean you're ready for the expedition. I'd suggest dumping any non-boaters and rebuilding a proper full-month trip that is built for safety and success. 

Renting and cost sharing is a good practice, and I like that you're not on here "hiring guides". But if this trip is bigger than anything the five of you have ever done, you do need more resources than one oarsman and a couple kayakers to make this trip a success


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## Cocktail Dave (9 mo ago)

Randicky 
Randicky 
Randuchebag


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## MR. ED (Jan 21, 2008)

zbaird said:


> Oarin?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Video of the year!


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## Cocktail Dave (9 mo ago)

MR. ED said:


> Video of the year!


gets my vote.. Video of the Year


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## Randaddy (Jun 8, 2007)

Cocktail Dave said:


> Randicky
> Randicky
> Randuchebag


Cocksmoke Dave, Merry Christmas!


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## TruckeeSagebrush (4 mo ago)

I like Dave! We should hang out man I live in Truckee


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## Pinchecharlie (Jul 27, 2017)

You should invite nana!


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## blueotter (Nov 30, 2018)

Wow. The fountains in that video were gorgeous!!


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## jbLaramie (Feb 1, 2021)

Don’t quite get the connection between that video and the topic in the discussion. But, after having watched it there’s a lot I don’t remember anymore…

Those husbands in the crowd must have been sweating bullets trying to keep their eyes on the fountain.


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## Big Wave (6 mo ago)

I hate to be negative but watch the GC cancelation email for a 8 person trip on 2/26/23.


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## Pinchecharlie (Jul 27, 2017)

Link it will ya I dunno how to look. I feel bad people want to go and it’s kinda hard to make it work


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## zbaird (Oct 11, 2003)

QUOTE="jbLaramie, post: 865501, member: 84204"]
Don’t quite get the connection between that video and the topic in the discussion. But, after having watched it there’s a lot I don’t remember anymore…

Those husbands in the crowd must have been sweating bullets trying to keep their eyes on the fountain.
[/QUOTE]

MT4 was talking about some sort of booty shaking 'oarin. I was wondering if the video was about said 'oarin since id never heard of it.
People watching in Vegas is fair game. If the significant gets mad about people watching in Vegas, they shouldn't take you there.


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## Big Wave (6 mo ago)

Pinchecharlie said:


> Link it will ya I dunno how to look. I feel bad people want to go and it’s kinda hard to make it work


Charlie when you apply for a Grand Canyon permit you get on a email list and they send out a list of cancellations about every month. Then you can try and get unlucky again.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

Randaddy said:


> Why do you want kayakers? That's like wanting a tapeworm or a boot on your car wheel. You need four boats, six qualified boat operators, and two tag alongs or kayakers that are willing to do their share of camp work.


As a kayaker... I have to say...

..he's right, you know.

I'd 100% invite kayakers if they were friends of mine. I wouldn't invite kayakers who are rando's. There's enough difficulty in a group when known kayakers don't know how to assimilate themselves with the gear proclivities of rafters. And they are capable of drinking a LOT of beer.


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## Randaddy (Jun 8, 2007)

MT4Runner said:


> As a kayaker... I have to say...
> 
> ..he's right, you know.
> 
> I'd 100% invite kayakers if they were friends of mine. I wouldn't invite kayakers who are rando's. There's enough difficulty in a group when known kayakers don't know how to assimilate themselves with the gear proclivities of rafters. And they are capable of drinking a LOT of beer.


They'll just stagger around, drinking all the beer from their dirty shoes, and using foul language. They'll sleep until noon, and even worse, they'll sleep with your date! And they drove to Lee's in a 2 door Subaru!

You're probably thinking one of two things: that kayakers will lighten the raft loads so you can take less boats _or _that they'll save you in a swim. The reality is, their boats will be strapped to your raft for half the trip and they can't usually save a swimmer until the pool below the rapid either. 

You need more rafts, some rafters with a trip or two under their belt, and a plan for four boats, even if one is smaller, IMO. Your best plan for safety is a longer trip (rest and recharge, scout, repair gear, whatever you need), and a little experience! You may not be able to tag along with another group for the entire time you're down there, so plan on self reliance and plan to practice big water oar skills and tight spacing - it's a different kind of boating.


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## DoStep (Jun 26, 2012)

Whether you love Randaddy or hate him he spelled that out just right for the OP...


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## Will Amette (Jan 28, 2017)

My first GC trip I was invited as a kayaker. It was a late invitation; one of the people on the trip decided she wanted to paddle, and they didn't want her to be a solo kayak. It was awesome. I was fortunate enough to join the Lava Falls Swim Team. I also helped with a few rescues, and being versed in river travel, I did at least my share of chores and definitely did the sherpa duty that kayakers need to do to earn their supper. Someone got a picture of me running Granite right as I came over the crest of a big wave. You can see air under my entire boat. That was a hoot.

My second trip I was also a kayaker, but I was a backup rower. Not oarer. We had an injury very early in the trip, so I had to pick up the sticks. It was fun. One of the other kayakers paddled my boat much of the time because she fit in it an my RPM is an excellent Canyon boat. This actually was my first ever rowing. I knew how to read water, and you have a lot better vision from a raft, but need to make moves early. I loved it. The primary oarsman (not rowsman) got better, but the group wanted me to row some of the bigger rapids in case he got incapacitated again when the REALLY big stuff came along. I loved it. I paddled Lava Falls and we reconciled our differences. I came home and started looking for a used raft.

My third trip I got to take my raft, and it also was awesome. We had no kayaks on that trip, and that also was fine. Lava was so kind to me it was ridiculous. It was as if a giant hand lifted my boat and gently guided it along the right path and set me down below Big Kahuna. 

Kayaks can be an asset if they are the right kayakers. They can paddle down to take a look to see if a camp is available and hike back easily if it's occupied. They can help grab swimmers. On my second trip, one of the other kayakers took a swim. Her husband wanted me to chase her mylar balloon that she had found. Nope. I grabbed her and put her on shore. Then I went for her boat. After I flipped it rightside up, I clipped my tow line in even though her husband implored me not to. I took the boat to shore, gave it to her, and made sure she was OK. Then I boogied up to the eddy at the bottom of the rapid to wait for the rafts in case of another mishap. That beach where she was now standing? It was our intended camp. Without quick rescue, we would have missed camp. On my first trip, I rescued several folks and got them to shore where the other rafts helped bulldoze their flipped boat over so we could unflip it.

Of course you can also have kayaks that you'd rather not have. Same with rafters or passengers. Kakaks can be entertaining. They get a little weight off the boat, but they still put their gear on there.

On a Middle Fork trip we had one raft that had two people that shared rowing duties and traded off the kayak they brought. They had a great time. Near the end of the trip, I passed the guy who was paddling while he was having a really nice surf on a big beautiful wave. When he got done and paddled up, I said, "Well, now I wish I had my kayak." He said, "Yeah, but at least you can stand up."

Nothing wrong with bringing kayaks on a Canyon trip. Nothing wrong with leaving them home. As someone who kayaked for maybe two decades before learning to raft who was fortunate enough to be invited on many river trips, I like to return the favor to other kayakers. Who knows, maybe one of 'em will ask me to carry their gear bag when they get a permit.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

Will Amette said:


> On a Middle Fork trip we had one raft that had two people that shared rowing duties and traded off the kayak they brought. They had a great time. Near the end of the trip, I passed the guy who was paddling while he was having a really nice surf on a big beautiful wave. When he got done and paddled up, I said, "Well, now I wish I had my kayak." He said, "Yeah, but at least you can stand up."


My first MF trip, I kayaked, swapped off with the guy who rowed my raft, so we shared raft loading duties.
I later rafted the entire MFS. The MFS is definitely more of a kayak friendly river than a raft-friendly river.


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## tiderancher (Oct 12, 2015)

Cocktail Dave said:


> Randicky
> Randicky
> Randuchebag


Randaddy is right in this case Dave. So sit back and sip another cocktail as your douchy commentary is completely worthless.


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## Rafter Larry (Aug 10, 2021)

Over the years I have done multiple rivers with kayakers and found them useless on those trips. When we would pull into camp they would be playing in the river and show up when it was time to eat. We started calling them “plastic leeches “ who would only show up for beer, food, and when a cute girl was around. Then, I did a Middle Fork trip with a group of boaters that were new to me. The kayakers blew away all the stereotypes that I had. They were funny, hard working and helpful setting things up and taking things down. Shoot, we even got help carrying gear down to the boats and they washed dishes. A subsequent trip with a different group of older kayakers had the same positive impact on the group. We were sharing the trip together as well as sharing the work. 
So, going forward I would happily share a trip with kayakers provided we have similar goals in mind. To the younger kayakers I would suggest that they do what they can to make it easier for the rafters who are hauling their gear as well as the food. That goes a long way towards making it a trip that all can enjoy.


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## tiderancher (Oct 12, 2015)

Rafter Larry said:


> Over the years I have done multiple rivers with kayakers and found them useless on those trips. When we would pull into camp they would be playing in the river and show up when it was time to eat. We started calling them “plastic leeches “ who would only show up for beer, food, and when a cute girl was around. Then, I did a Middle Fork trip with a group of boaters that were new to me. The kayakers blew away all the stereotypes that I had. They were funny, hard working and helpful setting things up and taking things down. Shoot, we even got help carrying gear down to the boats and they washed dishes. A subsequent trip with a different group of older kayakers had the same positive impact on the group. We were sharing the trip together as well as sharing the work.
> So, going forward I would happily share a trip with kayakers provided we have similar goals in mind. To the younger kayakers I would suggest that they do what they can to make it easier for the rafters who are hauling their gear as well as the food. That goes a long way towards making it a trip that all can enjoy.


Those sound like the hard shellers we invite on out trips. They contribute to the group and are excellent at running safety. Some are even good at videography. Stereotypes aside, pick your crew wisely and in this case make your expectations known well in advanced as no one wants to spend 3-4 weeks with balls of chain. (See what I did there, LOL.)


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

The type of craft makes no difference, really at the end of the day. It's the person rowing / paddling it that matters. Don't hate me for this, but too many rafters allow kayakers, who have never done anything even close to a multi day trip, along for the ride, and don't bother showing them the important things that need to be done, and the order in which they should do them. i.e. setting up the group gear BEFORE finding that perfect camp spot. This should be one of the first things discussed after the invite has been accepted. 

If you start hearing all manner of hemming and hawing, then there's your first red flag, rafter OR other craft..

As long as the expectations are set out in front of the launch, you shouldn't have any issues, or at least not any major ones. Some say you need an excel spreadsheet of chores, I personally don't use that, as almost every trip I've been on, folks find their "groove, niche or whatever" they are good at and like to do, past drinking beer. 

For example, I'll always trade any other duty for groover duty. i don't mind it at all, it's relatively easy, and since it's generally the last thing to be packed, it leaves me more time to help others breaking down and loading before my time to work happens. 

As for "oaring" a boat, reminds me of that oldie children's song, "Oar Oar Oar your boat, gently down the stream, merrily merrily merrily life is but a dream" Wait a minute LOL...

My 2 cents, YMMV..


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