# First raft questions.



## Andy D (Oct 8, 2015)

Hello 
My name is Andy, and recently joined the forum. I am looking into getting my first raft. The boats I have been looking at are the RMR 13', NRS outlaw 13' , and aire super puma. I will be building a speedrail frame for it with a cooler seat for a passenger in the front and a tractor seat for a rowers position, and maybe latter adding a rear passenger seat. A friend recently built his own frames and got most of the experimentation out of the way. 
I am interested in the performance differences in these rafts. 
Is the RMR that less responsive than the super puma? 
How does the open pocket floor effect the handling of the super puma?
Are there any material and quality concerns with the outlaw?
Are there places any of these rafts will be able to go that the others wouldn't? 

My main use of the boat will be to transport me and another angler between fishing locations and maybe some small multi day trips. 

Thank you
Andy


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## Learch (Jul 12, 2010)

These topics get hit quite often on the Buzz, you might try and try the search function. Pumas are much narrower than the RMR or Outlaw. They are fast and light. The RMR is going to be wider and more stable. The RMR can be had with an I-beam or drop stitch floor. The Outlaw has a single piece of material for the main floor with a drop stitch floor attached on top of it for flotation and rigidity. I have no experience with the Outlaw, but I know people that have a 13' RMR and Super Puma, and both really like them. The Puma will be the sportiest, but the RMR will be more stable and will haul more gear. The Puma also is a diminishing tube design, and the RMR has a non tapered tube design. (The tube is the same diameter for the entire circumference of the boat) If you look at the pics of the Pumas on AIRE's site, you can really get a feel for how narrow and skinny they are. This can be a benefit or a hinderance, depending on usage.


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## Paul7 (Aug 14, 2012)

There is current thread titled looking for a fishing raft. It is much the same. RR are bomber for the price. The RR would be more stable and better suited for overnight gear. Puma would be sportier if not overloaded and is also great fun to paddle. 

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## spider (Jun 20, 2011)

The puma and the RMR are solid boats, the outlaw feels lil a pool toy. 10 year warranty on the AIRE, 5 on the RMR. Puma will be better for r2 and skinny water, RMR will do better as a gear hauler and in the bigger water. If you go RMR I'd look at the drop stitch floor, lighter and more cargo room. For a two man fishing rig the super puma or the puma would be ideal. The 12' RMR would also work, smaller tubes than the 13' and you only loose 8" of interior space compared to the 13'. 

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## cschmidt1023 (Jan 27, 2015)

Look at Tributary too! RMR and Trib make up the affordable high quality boats. The Outlaws look alright but I think they are glued rather than welded which you don't want with a PVC boat.


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## Andy D (Oct 8, 2015)

Thanks for your answers so far. I have tried searching but the search feature on my app only gives limited results and didn't find the answers I was looking for.

Those of you who have experience with the super puma, was it the standard or sealed pocket floor?

Andy


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## FlyingDutchman (Mar 25, 2014)

I have a 2013 super puma with the standard floor. The boat is fast and easy to handle, love it... The standard floor has holes in the bottom that allow water in and out of the floor pocket. You don't notice any drag..but the water in the floor pocket helps add ballast when you are hitting big holes/waves solo or R2. The maybe 30-40 pounds of ballast definitely helps this narrow boat stay upright..At the take out, the floor takes 3 minutes to drain. No big deal at all. 

The super puma is a lot of fun, great boat for R2. I sometimes use it for R5 R6. With 5 people you notice the narrow width.


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## flipper42 (Apr 8, 2011)

all awesome boats and yes the puma is the sporty of the 3 narrow easy to turn fast down the water. I own a 14 foot outlaw it has been my first raft to own I love how roomy it is and that the floor is flat it maneuvers well and tracks nicely my only thought is that the floor is one bladder and sits on the material on the bottom kinda laced in with a buckle system which means you can get sediment under it but if you clean your gear after every use shouldnt be an issue and if you really wanted to go so far, you can take the floor out easily. The RMR boats are nice also if I could do it over again I might of went RMR for another 600-700 dollars but NRS is a good brand and they back the product Ive taken to boat out on our local class 2 runs about 25 times this summer and no issues to think of. good luck!


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## InflatableSteve (Jun 12, 2013)

I would definitely go Tributary over the Outlaw if it were me. For fishing, the wider boats will probably be more what your looking for since you don't really need the high performance of the narrow supper Puma. RMR use to have a bad rep before I got my first raft. They seem to have stepped up there game and everyone seems to be really happy with their boats lately. Both RMR, Tributary and Outlaw rafts are made in China. The outlaw has glued seams as mentioned above, while the RMR and Tribs are welded. The Tribs use a bladder system. Some don't like this feature, but I am a big fan. It will make on river repair a lot easier and you don't have to glue on a patch. You can also have any big tears in the fabric welded which will last longer than a patch. Aire changed the fabric of the tributaries this year from the French fabric to a Chinese fabric. They did beef it up, so I am not sure which fabric holds up better. Though the new Tribs are heavier as a result.

As far as regular or sealed floor pockets go, the regular is suppose to give more ballast so it will be more stable. The sealed pocket is suppose to give better performance and is easier to maneuver.

Hope this helps.


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## Andy D (Oct 8, 2015)

Thanks to all. This has been helpful .

Andy


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## nastysauce (Feb 2, 2015)

your friend is an idiot


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## Andy D (Oct 8, 2015)

nastysauce said:


> your friend is an idiot


How is that?


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## sledhooligan (Mar 12, 2009)

Some people don't like speedrail built frames. And some twats like to sound off about it. As long as you're not useing fitting for the corner pieces you'll be all right.


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## Andy D (Oct 8, 2015)

What should I use at the corners? Nrs?


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## nastysauce (Feb 2, 2015)

Andy D said:


> What should I use at the corners? Nrs?


I just drill at the 4 corners and use bail pins. lol

All load bearing points get drilled and a bail pin or some sort of reinforcement other than the set screw. you can use NRS fittings for the corner, but i have yet to find away to install one into store bought 1.25" aluminum. Somehow they only magically fit in NRS pipe


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## sledhooligan (Mar 12, 2009)

If you look at Downriver Equip, AAA, River Boatworks and PRO who all build alum. Speedrail style frames they bend pipe for the corners. You can use elbow fittings but they need to be drilled and bolted. A normal corner fitting set screws won't hold up to the stress of the boat flexing. And the pipe will pull out.
When I built the alum frame for my Rogue I bent the pipe in a conduet bender. Before I bent the corners I put the speed rail Ts on that I needed. We then bent every thing with two pieces of pipe. Then I welded the frame together like a L7 so one weld was on the left rear the other right front.


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## Andy D (Oct 8, 2015)

nastysauce said:


> I just drill at the 4 corners and use bail pins. lol
> 
> All load bearing points get drilled and a bail pin or some sort of reinforcement other than the set screw. you can use NRS fittings for the corner, but i have yet to find away to install one into store bought 1.25" aluminum. Somehow they only magically fit in NRS pipe


Had a feeling that's who that was


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## SigNewt (Oct 27, 2015)

Like most things in life... buy once, cry once. {pun intended} i am in the same boat as you! Just picked up a new 13ft RMR from Riverboat works a few weeks ago. 

I have the same intended use as you and worked up a quote with Kevin, call them you wont be disappointed the pricing is right this time of year.


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## Paul7 (Aug 14, 2012)

Pretty easy to find used nrs frames, I think it's nice to start with a modular frame. I also talked to rowframe.com once he seems really reasonable. 

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## Riverbound (Oct 3, 2013)

Send me a message I know where there are a couple RMR rafts probably even a better deal than riverboat works. Both brand new aluminum frames , with drybox whole package like 3900.00 
Probably closer to you then having it shipped from out here


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## Osseous (Jan 13, 2012)

Whitewatermachineworks.com solves your corner concerns and provides a very elegant means of attaching decking. Check out Lee Lock for your anchor chock- much better than a jam cleat. Be sure you look at these boats- there is a LOT of difference in space, handling and stability.

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## elkhaven (Sep 11, 2013)

nastysauce said:


> I just drill at the 4 corners and use bail pins. lol
> 
> All load bearing points get drilled and a bail pin or some sort of reinforcement other than the set screw. you can use NRS fittings for the corner, but i have yet to find away to install one into store bought 1.25" aluminum. Somehow they only magically fit in NRS pipe


I've run into NRS not fitting, even on their own pipe (when shortened), I suspect they have a reaming tool they use to get the ends uniform or slightly over sized... anyways, it's easily fixed, mark where the fitting hits and sand or file it a little and it'll fit. I have 12" disk sander and it takes a few seconds to refit a fitting to new pipe. I think each fitting type has it's place but what I really like about low-pro's is easy removal from the middle of sections. The ends matter a lot less to me. Just my $.02.


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## nastysauce (Feb 2, 2015)

I agree that NRS are easy as hell when mounted, but the fact i gotta grind away shit and buy some new tools irritates me.


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## elkhaven (Sep 11, 2013)

nastysauce said:


> I agree that NRS are easy as hell when mounted, but the fact i gotta grind away shit and buy some new tools irritates me.


I guess I'm just used to having to do everything myself, so it doesn't bother me. If I do it, I know I'll be happy with it.


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## Osseous (Jan 13, 2012)

A pipe cutter and a rat tail file- not a big tooling investment 

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## nastysauce (Feb 2, 2015)

Osseous said:


> A pipe cutter and a rat tail file- not a big tooling investment
> 
> Sent from my SM-N900V using Mountain Buzz mobile app


Might be a dumb question but what purpose does the pipe cutter solve? The pipe is already cut and hand filed. Could you please elaborate for me?


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## nastysauce (Feb 2, 2015)

sorry for threadjacking andy but you get 3 miles of rowed river free


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## Osseous (Jan 13, 2012)

Buy your pipe in bulk and make the cuts- rat tail takes care of the flash. 

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## Andy D (Oct 8, 2015)

nastysauce said:


> sorry for threadjacking andy but you get 3 miles of rowed river free


No worries it's all useful info


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## elkhaven (Sep 11, 2013)

Osseous said:


> A pipe cutter and a rat tail file- not a big tooling investment
> 
> Sent from my SM-N900V using Mountain Buzz mobile app


I prefer to attack the fitting, rather than the tube. Disk sander is preferred but a mill bastard file works pretty quickly by hand.

I cut with a carbide toothed miter saw (wood variety) and debur quickly with what ever file I have around - rat tail is best.

If you look at the NRS castings, they're pretty sloppy and usually have some sort of work done to them at the factory, that's why I work on them rather than the pipe - but I'm sure the pipe can be inconsistent too.


edit: Oops, sorry Osseous - I meant to quote Nastysauces "dumb question" ....question. Just different ways of addressing the same problem...


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## Osseous (Jan 13, 2012)

My fittings were machined and anodized- pipe is cheap!

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## elkhaven (Sep 11, 2013)

I have the predecessor - wild goose fittings. They fit like a glove for sure - cut and debur/deflash is all you need. I was speaking of fitting NRS stuff into new pipe. Actually I use both.


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## Osseous (Jan 13, 2012)

New NRS are forged- I imagine they don't need any work. To me it makes sense to work the cheaper part. My WWMW fittings were perfect- nothing to debur whatsoever. My NRS forged towers have a mirror finish. I'm not hitting that with a file.

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