# Deep and preachy thoughts (



## Canada (Oct 24, 2006)

The buzz has changed a bit over the last five years or so. When it first started it was an awesome way to share adventures and often times put a face with a name on the river. Along the way a couple people started an east slope west slope thing that I believe was mostly in fun, but also was probably mildly associated with the lifestyle choices people made in living in the city and being weekend warriors, or living slope or river side and generally having a subsistence existence that went with that decision. That was largely egged on in pure humor by one damn funny individual who slammed on the front range while living there. (May he rest in peace) 
This has grown into a one-up-man-ship. I'm the coolest kid on the block because I run class V cleaner than you. This year their was even some idiot complaining he had to save someone from another crew on the Big T. This is a change that is in stark contrast to what drew me into this sport. When I started boating I was struck by the acceptance and tolerance that other boaters had for each other. People took me under their arms and taught me so much while I provided laughter by missing lines and screwing up. That came over here in this site under Frenchy's loose supervision. 

I'll ask all of you, am I just an old grouchy fart? Has the attitude here, or in the sport in general changed? What makes it okay to attack someone for sharing information about a rope in a river? Remember two people died in gore several years ago and many think that they were related to a rope caught slightly under the surface. When did we start second guessing our peers and not just assume they were doing there best to save each others asses.

Anyway, sorry for the rant, resume beating each other down. 

Texas sucks! (Threw that in for Milo)


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## Id725 (Nov 22, 2003)

Canada said:


> The buzz has changed a bit over the last five years or so. When it first started it was an awesome way to share adventures and often times put a face with a name on the river. Along the way a couple people started an east slope west slope thing that I believe was mostly in fun, but also was probably mildly associated with the lifestyle choices people made in living in the city and being weekend warriors, or living slope or river side and generally having a subsistence existence that went with that decision. That was largely egged on in pure humor by one damn funny individual who slammed on the front range while living there. (May he rest in peace)
> This has grown into a one-up-man-ship. I'm the coolest kid on the block because I run class V cleaner than you. This year their was even some idiot complaining he had to save someone from another crew on the Big T. This is a change that is in stark contrast to what drew me into this sport. When I started boating I was struck by the acceptance and tolerance that other boaters had for each other. People took me under their arms and taught me so much while I provided laughter by missing lines and screwing up. That came over here in this site under Frenchy's loose supervision.
> 
> I'll ask all of you, am I just an old grouchy fart? Has the attitude here, or in the sport in general changed? What makes it okay to attack someone for sharing information about a rope in a river? Remember two people died in gore several years ago and many think that they were related to a rope caught slightly under the surface. When did we start second guessing our peers and not just assume they were doing there best to save each others asses.
> ...


Amen, amigo -
I was afraid to post a safety hazard because I KNEW I would get a flame from at least one particular individual, and possibly more. Of course I posted it anyway, and sure enough, that very individual was the FIRST to respond, and responded in predictable fashion.
Good-natured ribbing between FRIENDS you know is cool. But flaming strangers on the Web SUCKS.
It's just like high school kids and such with cyber-bullying. So weak.
I think there is still a general excellence in the boating community - I love the camaraderie. It transcends other sports because we so often find ourselves counting on our buddies to come out of the thing alive, or for that matter counting on a stranger who's not really a stranger because he's a fellow boater.
I love boaters.
And this forum still has value, for sure ... but there are too many d-bags on here ... I'm reluctant to post trips, or for that matter a safety alert ...
But whatever.
The sport still rocks. Most of the people in it rock.
Let's go get some!


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## coloradopaddler (Jun 16, 2005)

*boating community in general*

I was at a now prominent whitewater play feature two weekends ago. There was a wide variety of river craft present. While just scoping out the scene from the bank I witnessed several people swim and a raft with two older guys flip. No one helped. The old guys in the raft dump trucked in a hole and were still swimming around the next bend, which was at least five hundred yards away. I stood there astonished at the fact that not one person in the water even offered to help. 
I don't know if it was the influx of beginners without any river etiquette or just the way that I was brought up paddling. If I had been in the water I wouldn't even have thought twice about offering help. Granted this area had minor or non existant consequences downstream, but still. We've still got to watch out for each other and provide a good example for the newbies. If people hadn't been supportive and helpful when I was starting out I would have had some bad times.


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## heliodorus04 (May 31, 2005)

My name is Helio and I'm a class IV boater with Class III confidence.

Did you know that something like 98 percent of wikipedia entries are edited by 0.2 percent of posters? My point is that really weird, sociopathic, hermetic, narcissistic, and dumb people have a heretofor unrivaled capability to 'express' themselves. The trick is not to let them harsh your mellow (btw, you get to decide which adjectives apply to me or any buzzard).

I've only met two cox on an actual river. Wait, scratch that; on the river they were reliable. Off the river they were cox.

This sport is still comprised of the coolest athletes (and non-athletic phatasses like myself) I've ever met.

The buzz is better than most websites for a group of affiliated nerds I've ever found.

Stupid is as stupid does. Maybe the Buzz should ban a few people who are clearly malcontents once in a while. I don't think that's a bad thing.

But overall, the vast majority of posts on the buzz are fun and/or helpful and/or harmless.

That's my take.


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## d.e. (Apr 5, 2005)

Growing pains - good and bad. Growth in kayaking and other outdoor sports, growth in Colorado, commidification and consumption of the mountain lifestyle, etc..... Kayaking is a little less fringe, a little more mainstream and attitudes have changed. It's getting gangsta around here:roll: ( tongue in cheek / sarcasm). I still haven't figured out slimy stout brown whatever, but I do want Gnarquist's lifestyle (beer, babes, boating the gnar, hucking the meat, living the dream ) when I grow up. Good stuff. It's cool to see people firing up all this new stuff. And this POV stuff is frickin cool. Opinions are like______ and the buzz, like the rest of the world, has plenty of both. It would be nice if we could maintain a respectful, insightful online community, and that's up to the Buzzards. The thing I always liked about Frenchy's creations, unlike, say, TGR, is that there wasn't a presumption to flame anything & everything. A little bit of fun directed sarcasm never hurt anybody too bad. There has always been bro-bras in the sport, always will be. Reminds me of a story I read in the Telluride paper about a bro-bra skier who beat up a old fart in Bear Creek with his ski edges because the old dude didn't have appropriate BC gear in the bro's opinion, even though the old fart had been skiing in there for 30 years. The buzz will go the way of the Buzzards, let's hope we're cool enough to keep it real.

Peace


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## LSB (Mar 23, 2004)

Being a Colorado boater then having spent a few seasons back east I found the boaters out there to be a lot more cliquish. The Yough in particular, not so much in Gauley Land. But it seemed that the locals had little use for each other much less outsiders. Rafters hating kayakers, squirtboaters too cool for school etc. I cut them some slack figuring that they had to pull too many out of town beginners out of the undercut rapids. Anyway, I think that as more and more boaters show up at your honey hole it gets easier and easier to be a hater.


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## Faucet Butt (May 11, 2008)

*Ego and Aliases...*

Hey, thanks for putting this topic out there. In part, I agree that there is a growing number of people on the river that are really intolerant and out for themselves. It doesn't really matter where they're from or what they do for a living, but they exist and anyone who's been around knows this. Back in the day-I'm talking early to mid 90s, people did look out for each other-regardless of if they were a class 5 guru or a rookie. There was a form of respect that was not based on a hierarchy of years on water or whatever, but on the fact that we were psyched to be on the water.
I miss that. Why is it that people should feel self conscious if they post a cool trip report on a class 2 river or a question?-that's not helping anything. There are a lot of issues surrounding the outdoor scene here in Colorado: crowds, level of ability, space to play, getting to and from the goods-hell, even keeping the goods a secret. But unfortunately, the reality is that there will be more people. More people can mean a greater awareness of the importance of our outdoor playground, and this can be a good thing. Let's (including myself), try to stop raggin' on each other.


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## Faucet Butt (May 11, 2008)

Faucet Butt said:


> Hey, thanks for putting this topic out there. In part, I agree that there is a growing number of people on the river that are really intolerant and out for themselves. It doesn't really matter where they're from or what they do for a living, but they exist and anyone who's been around knows this. Back in the day-I'm talking early to mid 90s, people did look out for each other-regardless of if they were a class 5 guru or a rookie. There was a form of respect that was not based on a hierarchy of years on water or whatever, but on the fact that we were psyched to be on the water.
> I miss that. Why is it that people should feel self conscious if they post a cool trip report on a class 2 river or a question?-that's not helping anything. There are a lot of issues surrounding the outdoor scene here in Colorado: crowds, level of ability, space to play, getting to and from the goods-hell, even keeping the goods a secret. But unfortunately, the reality is that there will be more people. More people can mean a greater awareness of the importance of our outdoor playground, and this can be a good thing. Let's (including myself), try to stop raggin' on each other.


Unless of course, if the person happens to be an egotistical asswipe and they deserve to eat shit!


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## Kendi (May 15, 2009)

Thanks for putting this out there. I come here to learn from others expecially since there aren't many rafting forums, and I find posts that put down females, rafters and folks who don't regularly run class IV and V.

I'm in WA and from what I can tell, we're pretty mellow out here compared to the rest of the states. Anyone on the water is our friend and potential safety net. It goes both ways. I see a bunch of drunk guys on inner tubes w/ no PFD's and sure- I think "what an idiot", but even for that guy I'd save his ass if he needed it and I was able to.

I'd like to think that any of you would do the same for me.


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## GPP33 (May 22, 2004)

I wouldn’t let a few loud mouths on some website change your opinion of the general population of river runners. I bet if you were to survey everyone you ever see on the river the vast majority would have heard about but do not ever actually read this website. Take that down to the few people who are too cool for their own shorts and it’s probably less than .01% of Colorado boaters with an attitude, they just have a forum to post it in and an audience to read it. I’d even bet that most of them wouldn’t back it up by being a dick on the river, if someone was in need of help they would probably offer it without a second thought. Sure, anyone will be a little pissed if they had to put themselves in danger to save someone else who was too lazy or too ignorant to be properly prepared, I know I’ve been there. 

I have met a lot of people on the river and quite a few through this website. All have been kick ass people that I’d be happy to call a friend.


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## wyboat (Jul 20, 2009)

Things are different. I started boating very young in 1973. I was taught to always help any other boater who needed it. Back then there weren't that many of us. Now there are so many that some people will only help their friends. I have seen play spots where people swam and no one responded. They didn't want to lose their spot in line, or it wasn't their problem because they always roll. Maybe they didn't want to get too far downstream and have to carry their boat back after a rescue. Part of the problem one particular day at 18,000 cfs was the self guided rafts getting into trouble. A playboater could spend the whole day rescueing people who shouldn't be there in the first place, because an outfitter was making a buck and not providing any safety boaters. Maybe the outfitter thought that private boaters would cover it for him and he could keep the difference. I think that when there are so many people around it is easy to think that someone else will do the right thing.


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## GPP33 (May 22, 2004)

I also wouldn't let the general populace of play parks sway your opinions of the boating community. They are rarely a true sample of boating in general. On top of that these guys went to the river for a specific purpose. Most play parks are directly above absolutely nothing so swims don’t turn bad, they are designed this way for a reason. Self rescue is a lesson you can only learn one way, what better place to do it than a play park?


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## Don (Oct 16, 2003)

*CAN*

Thanks Canada!

I hear ya. I'm ready to jump on to SUP just to get away from the aggro dude rants, and just get lost in something new. But, right now Sam, Lenny, and my quest for the perfect charc have me sleepless on Squirting. (Not some POV site on the web)

Let's take back one bit of history. Bring back the Boater Wave! It kills me that today's boaters don't even recognise each other off the water. They will slam each other online, but not take an effort acknowledge each other off the water. It's just sad. Maybe the sport really is dying, or at least it's soul is.

It's more important to have a cool avitar, hide behind your screen name, than it is to be real. Maybe we should leave the Buzz and start-up a new site. Maybe a Facebook for old Buzz users.


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## class 3 felon (May 14, 2008)

I flipped my boat last year on the Ark and got help from a raft on the river and it turned out to be someone from this board (RiverManRyan), thanks again. I also like to get on here and "talk a lot of smack" to other boaters(rafters), we all know this is a kayaker board and I don't rate! Anyway my point being there are a lot of trash talking peeps on this website but on the river they would be the first to jump in and save your ass in the time of need. So don't read too much to what is said on this board, that's what makes it interesting.

Peace Out Crackers,


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## Grif (May 21, 2008)

I agree. Things have gotten out of hand. I mean really out of hand. They're letting women kayak now. Women! Used to be how I got away from my old lady, now I've got to talk her through Zoom Flume. Christ! Men are walking around with pierced ears and holding hands with men. Seriously, I've seen it, on the West slope no less! These young punk kids listening to their hip hop music and kayaking in downtown Denver. I blame the methamphetamine. We used to kayak to get somewhere. We didn't waste our time "playing" in a hole, we went around the hole and kept goin'! And we walked our shuttles! I ran the Animas top down before work every day. That's before WORK. You kids know what that word means? 

Let's get back to the good 'ol days when internet forums about whitewater kayaking were pure and honest, and everyone was who they seem.


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## class 3 felon (May 14, 2008)

Grif said:


> I agree. Things have gotten out of hand. I mean really out of hand. They're letting women kayak now. Women! Used to be how I got away from my old lady, now I've got to talk her through Zoom Flume. Christ! Men are walking around with pierced ears and holding hands with men. Seriously, I've seen it, on the West slope no less! These young punk kids listening to their hip hop music and kayaking in downtown Denver. I blame the methamphetamine. We used to kayak to get somewhere. We didn't waste our time "playing" in a hole, we went around the hole and kept goin'! And we walked our shuttles! I ran the Animas top down before work every day. That's before WORK. You kids know what that word means?
> 
> Let's get back to the good 'ol days when internet forums about whitewater kayaking were pure and honest, and everyone was who they seem.


Amen! Case and Point, brilliant as always


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## restrac2000 (Mar 6, 2008)

Forums tend to be magnets for a few people (aka trolls) releasing a little too much anonymous aggression. That said, this site is by far the worst I have ever experienced. Yet I have come to realize it is just a few folks who provoke the tense interactions. I have seen alot of quality, kind interactions on this site in the 1.5 years I have been lurking and interacting. There is a wealth of experience that is shared freely that would be greatly missed. I just think more people need to call the trolls on their BS or learn not to engage them whatsoever I think if we started to do that more often the number and diversity of posters would drastically increase. 

Not having in daily rivers in my region makes it hard to compare but I have always found paddlers and oarsman to be selfless most of the time. They will lend a hand at great expense when push comes to shove. But it is the same old story, a few folks hit the seen with different priorities and ethics and the entire community can suffer. I was self taught at first and valued solitude over community. But after a year I realized one is never alone on a stretch of river and that this personality of rafting is brilliant. I may solo boat alot (not as much anymore) but I am always willing to lend a hand in an emergency, give campsite recommendations, or share a site if the situation warrants.


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## yourrealdad (May 25, 2004)

Remember the last episode of Seinfeld? They go to jail because they stood around and watched that fat guy get robbed and just laughed at him. Social commentary that hits it right on the head. Some people now a days are only concerned about what can immediately benefit them, and not to worry about others. If we want to get philosophical take it back to the whole idea that America has always billed itself as a place for individuality and that has bred a mentality that it is everyone for himself/herself. 

I remember knowing everyone on the street I grew up on. We could just walk into each other's houses as kids. We all knew the parents and they knew us. This was in the ever increasing and sprawling root of all evil front range. Now I don't know any of my neighbors and I live in an apartment meaning I have people closer to me than when I lived in the Fort. 

Why wouldn't this mentality flow into our sport? 

On the other hand, people always talk about the good ol' days like everything was peachy. People sleeping in seperate beds, no tattoos, no diseases, a simpler cleaner life. We all know that is BS. We just have to find something to bitch about no matter what is happening. I bet when everyone dies, you will find Americans in heaven complaining about something.

We are now a nation of whiners. 

Lead by example. Go boating with someone you might think is an asshole. Caspermike is a pretty funny nice guy in real life.

Help some one you don't know, so they see it hapening and follow your lead.

Don't make assumptions off the buzz, judging a book by its cover and all those other smart sounding cliches.

That was my most serious post ever. Lame.


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## raymo (Aug 10, 2008)

Grif said:


> I agree. Things have gotten out of hand. I mean really out of hand. They're letting women kayak now. Women! Used to be how I got away from my old lady, now I've got to talk her through Zoom Flume. Christ! Men are walking around with pierced ears and holding hands with men. Seriously, I've seen it, on the West slope no less! These young punk kids listening to their hip hop music and kayaking in downtown Denver. I blame the methamphetamine. We used to kayak to get somewhere. We didn't waste our time "playing" in a hole, we went around the hole and kept goin'! And we walked our shuttles! I ran the Animas top down before work every day. That's before WORK. You kids know what that word means?
> 
> Let's get back to the good 'ol days when internet forums about whitewater kayaking were pure and honest, and everyone was who they seem.





yourrealdad said:


> Remember the last episode of Seinfeld? They go to jail because they stood around and watched that fat guy get robbed and just laughed at him. Social commentary that hits it right on the head. Some people now a days are only concerned about what can immediately benefit them, and not to worry about others. If we want to get philosophical take it back to the whole idea that America has always billed itself as a place for individuality and that has bred a mentality that it is everyone for himself/herself.
> 
> I remember knowing everyone on the street I grew up on. We could just walk into each other's houses as kids. We all knew the parents and they knew us. This was in the ever increasing and sprawling root of all evil front range. Now I don't know any of my neighbors and I live in an apartment meaning I have people closer to me than when I lived in the Fort.
> 
> ...


Nicely said. Totally true, do not judge someone by the way they communicate, just be intelligent enough to understand their communication style and do not be threatened by it.


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## mr. compassionate (Jan 13, 2006)

Let's get back to the good 'ol days when internet forums about whitewater kayaking were pure and honest, and everyone was who they seem.[/QUOTE]


A bit tongue and cheek don't you think "griff"? Who they seem...are you truly the one and only. If so Schlitz all the way around also how in the hell did you initially meet Yakgirl?


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## caspermike (Mar 9, 2007)

*lactation*

mike from colo"rad"o springs... i only egged on a conversation about the events. no use bottling shit up(like an near entanglement in gore).... other newbiis could learn from it(and did) and you didnt want to share the full experience, of coarse im going to give you hell. and of coarse its a safety hazard to my friends as well and id like to know how much of your rope is in, 10 feet is different than 30 or 40! sorry for caring. this is a online community( used for hooking up and sharing knowledge) . if you are afraid of what somebody thinks and can't admit your wrongs,that is an ego? you remember when i willingly lead your group through gore and had to put up with your groups class 5 first d bs at the putin and the walking shit at kbomb? maybe you should have a little more respect as well. kid.....

agroo dudes? not even going to touch that one.


but go right ahead and ban me never brought anything to the table right.+
you know what i think the japanese started making those bras for dude.  im thinking i should place a mass order and hand them out to you guys. wahhhhh wahhhh


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## Riparian (Feb 7, 2009)

Mr. C, are you suggesting that Grif is _not_ who is says he is? _Shame on you!_ He is the Poet Laureate of The Buzz and a Philosopher King, besides being a watercraft innovator... and an amateur recreational chemist. Really a Renaissance Dude, if you ask me. But you didn't ask me, did you?


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## mr. compassionate (Jan 13, 2006)

Riparian said:


> Mr. C, are you suggesting that Grif is _not_ who is says he is? _Shame on you!_ He is the Poet Laureate of The Buzz and a Philosopher King, besides being a watercraft innovator... and an amateur recreational chemist. Really a Renaissance Dude, if you ask me. But you didn't ask me, did you?


Rip, I watched the Big Lebowski last night...never seen it before. Pretty damn funny and I picture you as the reincarnation of the dude. When are we going bowling.


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## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

I think every generation has this gripe, once they have been around a while. Whether it is "kids nowdays", or "we had one lightbulb", or whatever. It's part of growing up, things change, and the good ol' days are left behind. 

I'm pretty new to boating, and very new to catboating. I have had the exact opposite experience that is talked about here. Veterans welcoming me into the sport, coaching me, mentoring me, and generally being what you say you miss about the sport. But I'm talking Montana/Idaho and we're usually behind the times anyways. In another 10 years maybe we'll see what you describe, who knows.

Every internet forum has it's times where it sucks, and times when they make me laugh out loud. Then there's the time where great knowledge is shared, and I can avoid a huge learning curve (read constant redesign of gear and planning) and cut to the chase to get something that works.

So here we are, the Buzz is what it is now, not what it was, not what it will be, but just as it is. It was here that I found out about the Vertical Challenge, and I'm proud to have gotten involved in that.

Take the best, leave the rest. Love the one you got. 

For me, the Buzz is better than some other unnamed forums, since it is much more welcoming of women. Not as much sexism and porno pictures all over the place. Well, except Grif, nice try  dude. And it seems more tolerant of stupid rants, because we all have them once in a while, and most of the time people just flow through it.

I must be feeling good today, all touchy feely. I'm just excited to get on the water this weekend, with those awesome cat-boaters who encouraged and welcomed me into the sport!


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## wally206 (Jun 13, 2005)

*The Sport has Changed*

A point of view from a boater who has done this for a long time (and is not the boater he used to be)

Things were very different 20, 15, even 10 years ago. There was more open acceptance of all boaters as one of the group. I had a flat tire in the middle of nowhere, in a non boater state, and by the time I changed it 3 boaters had stopped because they saw the kayak on my car and asked if I needed help. I don't think that would happen today.

People went out of their way to give you a shuttle ride. I asked some guys for a ride on few years ago as I was boating alone and they said "sorry we are not going that way"... it was only a 3 mile run. I offered them $10 and they gave me a ride... turns out they were boaters (were not boating that day and had no obvious gear on their jeep)... that was a sad day. $10 was way more compelling than helping out a fellow boater.

I think a lot comes from the different needs in getting started. It used to be harder to get started (getting a boat to borrow/rent even). You had to rely on someone to take you down the river and babysit you... and they were usually giving up a better run and you appreciated it. In return, I think people looked forward to paying back others and the sport in general. Now with play parks and better technology, and more beginner groups getting out as a group on their own (because there are more boaters) there just is not as much reliance on someone making a sacrifice to help you get started. Although this is good in many ways... it also took away more than a bit of the brotherhood and appreciation for others. 

I personally don't enjoy the scene as much and therefore don't boat much anymore. (of course kids had something to do with it)

Just another point of view.


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## cokayakn (Feb 26, 2007)

*"Boater Wave" is the answer!*

...but only to like-in-kind boats.
-Play-boat to play-boat 
-K-mart raft to K-mart raft
-glass boat to glass boat
-tube to tube

If your a REAL bad-azz creeker, then maybe just a little head-bob 



acknowledgment or, as I do, ...quick blink of my hazard lights, double-pump of my passenger side throw bag while screaming (high pitched) "FIRE IT UP (my brethrin bro-braagghhh-ha-ha-grar-bra)" ...and cap it off by chucking my back-up red bull at their rig.
Hit'n up-c 2night! Anyone? (Pussies!)
chris


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## mania (Oct 21, 2003)

Don said:


> It's more important to have a cool avitar, hide behind your screen name, than it is to be real.


Hell Yeah! look at my new avatar everyone! 8)

wait was he being sarcastic?


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## deepsouthpaddler (Apr 14, 2004)

I get a kick out of the "back in the day" reminicsing. Seems like the human brain has some sort of weird wiring so that we tend to selectively remember the good things about the past, and we all seem to think that things were the best when we were 15-25 yrs old, not matter what things were actually objectively like at the time.

Judging the boating community by a website is about as rediculous as judging life by reading the front page of the newspaper. Nothing but murder, rape, corruption, and destruction in the newspaper, but life in general is pretty damn good. 

There may be a few jackasses on the buzz, but everywhere I paddle, boaters are friendly, helpful, look out for each other, and life is good. Last year some random boaters picked me up hitching in clear creek canyon. Turns out they were from the southeast and I ended up taking them down a handful of great runs. Many similar hookups this year. Hospitality and good vibes are alive and well despite what some people may think. The boater wave is alive and well! 100% success on the road unless I happen to wave at a guy with rec boats who doesn't know the secret handshake.

Maybe there are some very new folks who haven't quite figured it out yet, but give them time... they will. 

Pessimists think that the best days are behind them. Optimists like myself know that the best day is the next day I get out on the water with my buddies and have a good time.

Despite a very small contingency of annoying posters, but buzz is full of information and life. I routinely search back through posts for beta on new runs I want to attempt, and I find that to be one of the better uses of the buzz. When folks are looking for flow beta on escalante, OBJ, or looking for info on the latest dam releases, the buzz is your one stop shop for getting all you need. Combine that with endless pictures, videos, links to good blogs, and some humor, and you have a fantastic resource.

For those whose fragile soul can't bear another annoying flame, turn of the computer, take a deep breath and go enjoy life. You are taking the buzz too seriously.

Also, the majority of boaters I run into on the colorado standard runs are hooked inwith the buzz in some fashion. Many of my best paddling connections originated with a buzz hookup. Thanks buzz, you rock!!!

Yes there are growing pains. Heavy handed moderators sometimes get a bit too busy. Silly ads (who wants a bowflex?) and changes to the familiar set up ruffle feathers. In the end its the large community that makes the buzz work. The upside is lot of boaters with an active community. Some small sites get a post a week, or most of the posts have no replies or dialog, and therefore can't hold much interest. The downside of a large and active community is that there a handful of malcontents. Big deal. Its funny to see someone stick their foot in their mouth, and hilarious when they attempt the whole fucking leg!

So, settle, the water is gone, and post runoff depression is in full force. Get out to gore, or westwater, or somewhere, have a good time, and bring some positive energy back to the buzz.

I had a great day on gore last weekend, and another is sure to follow this weekend. 

I hooked up for some great adventures this season and the buzz helped many of them.


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## Canada (Oct 24, 2006)

*My point*

My point was not to say how awesome the past was, but more to hopefully instill some thought to the process of posters here. I still come here several times a day as a release from pushing paper on my desk. I will boat as long as my body allows me. 

This thread is a good sample of what I like here. Some people are pretty damn funny, and no one is ripping someone down personally. I think Kayak Girl is Grifs bi polar alter ego.


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## caspermike (Mar 9, 2007)

"and no one is ripping someone down personally" maybe not not personally but you are ripping on people like the rippers them self. quit compaining go kayaking and get on with life. why worry about the stupid shit(buzz)


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## Riparian (Feb 7, 2009)

Canada - you make valid points, but can't we go after Mr. C? I mean, the guy invited me to go bowling! I'm visualizing a Dude-Walter-Donny bowling alley scene unfolding, and that just scares the bejesus outta me! Could make a good movie, however...


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## Canada (Oct 24, 2006)

*Can't let a softball fly by with swinging*

Mike, even you have to recognize the irony of your post.


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## caspermike (Mar 9, 2007)

canada ill defend my self. not a push over brother. don't care what your mom thinks. ohh yeah going kayaking tonight. not complaing in a new post about buzzards being buzzards. and ohh yeah i don't care about the pitty shit cause it aint going to change the world.


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## Kendo (Jul 26, 2006)

*way of the walk!*

Basics of LIfe: 
Not everybody plays fair, but its NOT a matter of what craft your in or where you boat...
Its the Golden rule, give respect to get respect, I was raised with siblings in a military family....learned this early in life....if someone asks or needs my help, I am inclined to help... infact most usually I want to help.. I think some people on this site find it easy to be rude to people, then come up with alot of excuses and say that they were helping the rest of the community... perhaps its due to the anonimity of being behind a computer screen and not face to face... (remember you kiss your momma with that mouth, or touch your gilr with those fingers-haha)if that was the case, lets just try and redirect what your saying by loosing the attitude and the cursing. who doesnt respond to criticism well if its put out there with tact.. 

Lets throw out a life saver instead of concrete boots! 

also lets try and have a sense of humor too- its needed to get through the blah blah BS that some here have to offer- sometimes they do have something to offer its just harder to see! 

even if i dont like you i`ll try and save you!


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## Matt J (May 27, 2005)

welcome to the off season

at least you have plenty of time to think about it while you wait for the snow

to fall

freeze

fall some more

then melt.

the buzz is as the buzz does

a microcosm of a community that has grown in number

which inevitably represents a drop in the average quality.

see you on the river!


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## tress33 (Jan 5, 2007)

caspermike said:


> canada ill defend my self. not a push over brother. don't care what your mom thinks. ohh yeah going kayaking tonight. not complaing in a new post about buzzards being buzzards. and ohh yeah i don't care about the pitty shit cause it aint going to change the world.


 
you sound like a middle schooler....i'll defend myself blah blah blah...nothing more than a concern troll are u...


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## caseybailey (Mar 11, 2008)

caspermike said:


> canada ill defend my self. not a push over brother. don't care what your mom thinks. ohh yeah going kayaking tonight. not complaing in a new post about buzzards being buzzards. and ohh yeah i don't care about the pitty shit cause it aint going to change the world.


This is awesome. Did you get a badge with your uniform?


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## JDHOG72 (Jul 18, 2007)

Is it offeason? Gore! This aggression will not stand! Gore! Can't we all just get along and run Gore?


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## KSC (Oct 22, 2003)

The original post was observing that: a) the buzz has gotten more aggressive and elitist and b) this is reflected on the water as well in the form of lack of respect for other boaters, unwillingness to help, lack of patience and mentorship.

I suspect this perception is a combination of a bit of truth and bit of fog in the mirror.

The truth:
It was before I started boating, but when the boating population was smaller in the 90s, it seems very likely that the community was tighter and as such there were fewer miscreants and more of a bond between boaters. This surely is just a function of community size and I probably don't need to elaborate. 

Another factor you might consider, which also falls under truth, is I suspect the subsection of boaters that you associate with have changed. As I've started spending more time on harder runs, I've noticed a change in the boaters. I don't think it's because the culture has changed in the 6 years I've been boating. It's because the crowd attracted to Filter Plant is quite a bit different than the crowd going to The Big South. For one, the latter have much better abs and pecs (maybe I should take up hand paddling...). But also, people running class V tend to be a bit more intense and more inclined to push themselves and others. There is also a practical aspect to that. Running class II/III you can feel pretty safe running with most anyone and know you'll be helping to collect gear, but not having to worry a lot of about the safety of you and your partners. When you're running class V, you often don't want to find yourself apart of a sh-t show that can place you and others in serious harm or be a witness to something horrible. This lends itself to people being more discriminating about who they boat with on the river on harder runs. In fact, when I've been back to the play park, I see a lot of the old helpful, encouraging, fun loving attitude that I used to see more of on the class III runs.

The Fog:
Besides the tendency to remember "the good old days", I doubt there was ever an internet forum that you could call civil. I wonder though, if the current state of the buzz or on the river is really as bad as people say. Can anyone point me to a thread where someone was pumped about their trip down Filter Plant or their favorite class II/III run and they got ragged on for enjoying an easy run? I've haven't seen it and I spend too much time on here. Most of the "I'm cooler than you because I run better class V" talk I see going around tends to be amongst people who are friends and are just talking sh-t with each other. I suspect a lot of that is being misconstrued because others don't realize that they know each other and are joking around.

I would also point out that a lot of the biggest sh-t talkers on this site seem to be people that I know were around in the 90s and it's hard for me to imagine they saints back then.

This year I've had people show me down runs for my first time and I've shown others down for their first time. I've experienced random groups helping out people in other groups on the river collecting gear, extracting a pinned boater, etc. Camaraderie on the river is still alive and well though it may not be as ubiquitous one would like.

Last winter I was driving downtown and stopped at a stop sign. I see a guy walking across the street in front of me and I notice it's the illustrious Joe Keck, who never remembers me, but that's another story. He glanced at my car and when he sees the stackers on the roof he does a double take, presumably to see if he recognizes the driver. I wave and he waves back. Now what are that chances that would happen if someone sees a bike rack on top of the car?


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## Buckrodgers (Feb 28, 2007)

deepsouthpaddler said:


> I get a kick out of the "back in the day" reminicsing. Seems like the human brain has some sort of weird wiring so that we tend to selectively remember the good things about the past, and we all seem to think that things were the best when we were 15-25 yrs old, not matter what things were actually objectively like at the time.


Well put--you sound like the modern incarnation of Friedrich Schiller (check out "On Naive and Sentimental Poetry"), but in a boat and without a powder wig. He basically said this same thing over 200 years ago. Er, I mean "back in the good 'ol days."
*
*


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## caspermike (Mar 9, 2007)

tress33 and caseybailey if im a middleschooler with a badge that would make me the hall moniter right... if you understood i was talking to canada about irony i find it ironic im paddling in the middle of nowhere right now and half you goys won't be in a boat tonight, and the other half don't live close enough to anywhere to boat. otherwise if you aren't working why are you on the buzz?

begs the question why did you post in a post about people doing what you are doing? comprende.seniora what size bra you bro bradidas wear?

good lunch... double bacon cheese burger combo large with a side of nuggets.


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## caseybailey (Mar 11, 2008)

caspermike said:


> tress33 and caseybailey if im a middleschooler with a badge that would make me the hall moniter right... if you understood i was talking to canada about irony i find it ironic im paddling in the middle of nowhere right now and half you goys won't be in a boat tonight, and the other half don't live close enough to anywhere to boat. otherwise if you aren't working why are you on the buzz?
> 
> begs the question why did you post in a post about people doing what you are doing? comprende.seniora what size bra you bro bradidas wear?
> 
> good lunch... double bacon cheese burger combo large with a side of nuggets.


sorry, I thought you were going boating and I was going to stab you in the back while you were gone.
-caseybailey
p.s. double d


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## ritatheraft (May 22, 2007)

would you like to dip-a-size that? It's only a quarter...


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## Schizzle (Mar 26, 2004)

mania said:


> Hell Yeah! look at my new avatar everyone! 8)
> 
> wait was he being sarcastic?


Nice avatar. The only better one I've seen was "Golder" over on boof.com, but I haven't been to that site in years so it's probably different now. I shun that site purely because if I read about CA I get a bedrock insecurity issue. Wonder if when they read the buzz it gives them a blastrock insecurity issue? Probably not.I love the banter on this site. Some people have a knack for it.Fact of the matter is that I've met basically all my regular partners except one through this website, and that one was the catalyst who turned me onto it. Tons of beta, too. I do kind of wish sometimes it was more beta, less bs, but I'm guilty as charged too for playing on the interwebs. Last thing I'll say, then I'll get back to counting stacks and my gangsta' ways. My opinion, calling people out isn't a bad thing if it helps them rethink something. It can be done with grace though...It's kind of parallel to drinking a bootie beer being the stick and your buddy buying the ice cream being the carrot. It makes you think about the consequences for what you just did. If I hadn't fucked up, I wouldn't be enjoying this beverage right now. Same coin, different side: I'm enjoying this beverage because my buddies cleaned up my yard sale at risk to themselves.


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