# What size and type of raft to get- fishing



## jonathankirby (Feb 17, 2019)

Hi everyone, been lurking for a bit. Apologies for the redundant question but curious on your recommendations.

I currently have a Scadden(yes I'm still alive and unharmed...mostly) Assault and paddled some sections of river with class 2 rapids.

I'm looking to get a better outfit for a weeklong trip I plan to do every summer in a remote area of BC(35 min heli in). It has some class 3 rapids. It will be me and 1 passenger. Other than the big trip I hope to do day trips with my wife and kid fishing some mellow rivers.

I was thinking a 13 or 14' raft with a normal frame(nrs Bighorn), don't need the fishing frame as 99% of the time I get out and fish while wading.

What would you recommend for this type of water/purpose?

Thanks so much!


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## griz (Sep 19, 2005)

Mmmm.....Scadden...I hear they are class V rated!

14’ Hyside.

“Next in line, please! Next,please!”

“Yes, you’ll want a 14’ Hyside,too.”

“Next in line! I said NEXT!”

“Yes, 14ft Hyside for you, as well. good choice,sir! Move along now, sir.”

“Next!”


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## LSB (Mar 23, 2004)

It really depends on the size of your wife and her need for comfort. 14' is bare minimum for most milf trips.


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## jonathankirby (Feb 17, 2019)

griz said:


> Mmmm.....Scadden...I hear they are class V rated!


Well my first trip down a river with some obstacles I busted the blade on the oar in the first mile of the float, then bent the other oar shortly after. Just rowed in circles to get around.

Thanks, I'll look at the Hyside.


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## John the welder (May 2, 2009)

The first thing you need to do is see what the capacity of the helicopter is then work backwards from that weight limit. If possible move everything in one trip. You may want a 12' or 13'.


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## griz (Sep 19, 2005)

Yeah, buddy, scadden boats and Dave are both pieces of shit.

Regarding the frame, NRS is a solid choice. I’ve used them for 18 years now and still recommend them for what you want to do with them. Not the sexiest frame but great for fly out stuff and changing them to the needs of each trip.

Also, get the raft first, tape measure it all up and then order all the frame parts that fit your needs off the nrs site.I don’t really recommend just buying the generic bighorn frame unless it matches your fit exactly. Side rails length , oar tower height,etc. are examples of some good possible tweaks.


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## jonathankirby (Feb 17, 2019)

John the welder said:


> The first thing you need to do is see what the capacity of the helicopter is then work backwards from that weight limit. If possible move everything in one trip. You may want a 12' or 13'.


Thanks! there's a fair bit of capacity, 1400lbs, my partner and I weighed in at 1100lb with our gear when we just camped(and we brought a lot of extras) but brought a water master to fish the other side. So as long as we keep it under 300 it should be fine. We also brought 50lbs of water so we could save some room there. The ride isn't cheap so want to keep it to one trip!

Do you think 13' would be too small? Ideally 12 or 13 would be nice for my solo fishing but I do have the Scadden for those days.


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## John the welder (May 2, 2009)

For what you are doing a 13' would work. You may want to think about future trips in a small plane and get setup for that.


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## KipG (Jan 13, 2019)

Prqactice will be the key to your success. Practice camping with less, because you're not going to fit 1100 into a 13 foot raft without rowing from the top of a pile of gear (okay, so it's only 975 cuz the raft weighs 125). It's going to depend on how much kitchen you can leave behind.
Are you goint to bring a cooler full of ice? That demands a bigger boat. Using backpacking gear, 2 people in 13 is easy. In a 13 foot boat, rowing from atop drybox or cooler, will have room for a couple of drybags, and not tht much more. Is a groover required where you're going? That's a lot of space, unless you're using a pipe bomb.
Manufacturers usually tell you the interior width, and you can guestimate the interior length, bot tha taper at the ends take away a lot of volume. See how much of your stuff you can pile into the aproximate interior space of an NRS Otter 13 to see if you're in the ballpark. An Otter 14 will not only have another foot in length, but about 6" in width the whole length. It's a big difference, but I can tell you, it's a handful to deal with a 135 lbs boat for just 2 people at the take out if you can't get your truck near the water. The more gear you've gotta carry, the more gear you've gotta carry. I have an NRS E135. At times I wish it was bigger and at times I wish it was smaller. The way I camp, on popular western rivers, I'd like a little bigger for those 6 day trips


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## Beaver Whisperer (Sep 26, 2011)

Depends on what type of rafting you're doing. I do a lot of multi-day trips and have a 14 foot raft. I travel light with personal items but carry a lot of the required group gear plus water and food. When I take a woman with me, she takes up very little room but it gets a lot more crowded with all of her personal gear. Personally I would not go less than 14 foot.


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## jonathankirby (Feb 17, 2019)

Thanks Kip, the 1100lbs was food, my partner and I(around 450-475lbs or so total), water master raft, camping gear and a yeti 85 filled with ice/perishables. We went a bit overboard on the things we brought(heavier folding chairs, a 25lb propane tank, large stove etc) No groover required here.

Most of the spots I fish should have a boat ramp which would makes things easy.

So what I'm sensing is that 14' would be ideal for a week long trip or even drifts with my family in a rowing set up? Stick to my scatten for the solo trips?

Thanks everyone for all of your help!


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## jonathankirby (Feb 17, 2019)

any thoughts on this raft? a bit old but nice price.

https://boise.craigslist.org/bod/d/boise-raft-15-hyside-pro-used/6823220734.html


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## KipG (Jan 13, 2019)

jonathankirby said:


> any thoughts on this raft? a bit old but nice price.
> 
> https://boise.craigslist.org/bod/d/boise-raft-15-hyside-pro-used/6823220734.html


 II don't think it's a steal, but probably a fair price. It's one year older than my NRS, and I expect to have it many more years. It's big enough to carry a comprehensive repair kit <<<Hint. I would expect that it should hold air well enough, but you'll want to carry a top-off pump anyway. And buy a couple of replacement valves, and change one for practice.
You know that's 165 lbs, more of less, right?


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## mattman (Jan 30, 2015)

KipG said:


> It's big enough to carry a comprehensive repair kit <<<Hint.


That's pretty darn funny man! Sellers should post that one for some of these 40 yr old $10,000 Avons they are trying to sell!

JonathinKirby, do a search on this forum for how to check out a used raft, folks have posted some good advice, such as inflating one tube at a time, having a spray bottle, checking for leaks, looking for blown out I-Beams in the floor, Etc.
Just like buying a used car, the more you know about things wraong that are a big deal to fix, and ones that are simple and cheapish, the better off you are.

I might not mind having that boat for Grand Canyon trips, but it would be pretty heavy to fly in though.

Best luck on finding a good ride!


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## jonathankirby (Feb 17, 2019)

Thanks again! Didn't realize how heavy it was. 

Might just splurge and buy new. Was thinking the NRS Otter or if the wife allows me maybe the Hyside or a Maravia, Cascade has what appears to be a good deal: https://cascaderivergear.com/shop/new-2017-maravia-storm/


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## griz (Sep 19, 2005)

Don’t get a Maravia for what you want to do. PAIN in the ASS to roll and get small vs. a hypalon boat. NRS or Hyside is what you want. You will also cause damage long term rolling those boats. Doesn’t affect hypalon.

Maravia is a GREAT boat to trailer but not throw on a plane, helicopter or horse.


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## KipG (Jan 13, 2019)

^^^ Very true!
I'd buy the Otter, and here's why; it rolls up the smallest, and assuming you're not using it 100 river days a year, it should last a lifetime. Hyside will give a little better fit and finish for a little more money, and either one is a good choice. Definitely go with about 14 foot by 7 foot, as you don't need the narrow one for smaller rivers and the extra space is important on multi day trips


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## KipG (Jan 13, 2019)

BTW, that Maravia would be a fantastic play boat for R4, or even 6 paddlers, but not the best expedition or fishing raft. At only 6'1" wide, you're missing out on a ton of cargo space and capacity.


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## jonathankirby (Feb 17, 2019)

Thanks guys, you are all so awesome for your help!


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## SherpaDave (Dec 28, 2017)

Initially I’d suggest a Super Puma, but you’ll want to factor weight. I’d guess it’s ~135# & add ~40-50# for a NRS frame. As mentioned earlier a Hyside would be fine too but I don’t expect the weight savings would be significant. The bigger factor is what can you live without as it sounds like you have around 600# of gear which seems kinda high. Changing to a water filter and 2-3 jugs will fit in the boat much better. 50 gallons takes a lot of space.


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## raymo (Aug 10, 2008)

*Bell 206E...*



jonathankirby said:


> Thanks! there's a fair bit of capacity, 1400lbs, my partner and I weighed in at 1100lb with our gear when we just camped(and we brought a lot of extras) but brought a water master to fish the other side. So as long as we keep it under 300 it should be fine. We also brought 50lbs of water so we could save some room there. The ride isn't cheap so want to keep it to one trip!
> 
> Do you think 13' would be too small? Ideally 12 or 13 would be nice for my solo fishing but I do have the Scadden for those days.


Would that hilicopter be a Bell 206. Sounds like from the uasble load, around 1400 lbs? Just curious.


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## jonathankirby (Feb 17, 2019)

raymo said:


> Would that hilicopter be a Bell 206. Sounds like from the uasble load, around 1400 lbs? Just curious.


I believe so yes.


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## raymo (Aug 10, 2008)

*Pickup trucks...*



jonathankirby said:


> I believe so yes.


Bell 206(two blade) and Bell 407(four blade) are the standard puckup trucks of hilicopters for carrying gear, I have a few hours in both. A Hyside, hypalon will roll very small(for tight quarters) and they have a very good reputation for holding up very well for many years. 12 ft.,13 ft., 14 ft. Your choice, really. Sounds like fun times in the makings.


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## jonathankirby (Feb 17, 2019)

Here's the bird, and my ugly mug. If my memory is correct it's an Astar?


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## KipG (Jan 13, 2019)

Dammm, I need a fishing trip!


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## jonseim (May 27, 2006)

There’s a brand newish hyside 13.5 in the classifieds. I love my hysides!


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## John the welder (May 2, 2009)

I'm more familiar with float planes but with 1400 pounds capacity I could fit 4 people and 2 rafts per load and cut my costs . There are other benefits for having 4 on a trip such as safety and extra help for portaging.


Sent from my iPad using Mountain Buzz


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## raymo (Aug 10, 2008)

Nice, The fishing looks great, definitely worth the dollars. The AStar performance is very close to the Bell's mentioned above, plus he's packing a saddle bag on the side which cuts down on his usable load(weight carring capacity of the hilicopter). If your going to hang it out there for a week, with a single boat in isolated country, a sat-phone is probably not a bad idea. Too much fun.


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## raymo (Aug 10, 2008)

Helicopter not Hilicopter(spelling) in my posts above. I screwed that up.


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## SherpaDave (Dec 28, 2017)

SherpaDave said:


> Initially I’d suggest a Super Puma, but you’ll want to factor weight. I’d guess it’s ~135# & add ~40-50# for a NRS frame. As mentioned earlier a Hyside would be fine too but I don’t expect the weight savings would be significant. The bigger factor is what can you live without as it sounds like you have around 600# of gear which seems kinda high. Changing to a water filter and 2-3 jugs will fit in the boat much better. 50 gallons takes a lot of space.




Ok, so I previously read 50# as 50 gal. My bad. 50# isn’t that much.


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## SherpaDave (Dec 28, 2017)

jonathankirby said:


> Here's the bird, and my ugly mug. If my memory is correct it's an Astar?




That’s an Astar. They have more lift capacity than a 406 or a standard 407. There is an upgraded package on the 407 available that does get close to an Astar.
Regardless 1400# for 2 people & gear seems doable. The volume of gear is probably going to be the limiting factor. Getting a boat to roll tight is probably key. The Otter will probably be the smallest roll you’ll get.


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## jonathankirby (Feb 17, 2019)

SherpaDave said:


> That’s an Astar. They have more lift capacity than a 406 or a standard 407. There is an upgraded package on the 407 available that does get close to an Astar.
> Regardless 1400# for 2 people & gear seems doable. The volume of gear is probably going to be the limiting factor. Getting a boat to roll tight is probably key. The Otter will probably be the smallest roll you’ll get.


Ya 1400lbs should be easy, we packed pretty heavy(I packed 7 of everything-socks, underwear, shirts, then more pants and shorts than i needed). Next time it will be 2 of most things except fishing gear, no such thing as too much gear on this river.


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## raymo (Aug 10, 2008)

*AStar 350B*



SherpaDave said:


> That’s an Astar. They have more lift capacity than a 406 or a standard 407. There is an upgraded package on the 407 available that does get close to an Astar.
> Regardless 1400# for 2 people & gear seems doable. The volume of gear is probably going to be the limiting factor. Getting a boat to roll tight is probably key. The Otter will probably be the smallest roll you’ll get.


AStar 350B, this is a picture of the same helicopter from jonathankirby post. With the side basket also, cargo room is greater in capacapacity, but not weight thought. 1450 lb. Is still the limiting factor. Bell's 206, Bell 407, are a discustion for a different form.


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## jonathankirby (Feb 17, 2019)

Thanks everyone for all of your help! Got an NRS otter 13' and big horn frame. Just figuring out where to put everything and what's comfortable.

Thank you! Look forward to sharing trip pictures later this summer


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## griz (Sep 19, 2005)

Nice boat.

I see you skipped my advice to measure for the frame after you get the raft though. that’s one super sloppy fit you got there, dude. Good luck with it.


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## jonathankirby (Feb 17, 2019)

griz said:


> Nice boat.
> 
> I see you skipped my advice to measure for the frame after you get the raft though. that’s one super sloppy fit you got there, dude. Good luck with it.


Maybe don't assume? dude.

I got shipped the wrong parts, 6" too wide. Will either replace them or cut myself for a better fit.


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## quinoa (Jul 5, 2009)

If they sent you the wrong size I recommend sending them back for the right size before I would cut them yourself, especially for the right sized foot bar. If it was their mistake all costs associated should be covered by them. Nice boat! I love my NRS!


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## jonathankirby (Feb 17, 2019)

quinoa said:


> If they sent you the wrong size I recommend sending them back for the right size before I would cut them yourself, especially for the right sized foot bar. If it was their mistake all costs associated should be covered by them. Nice boat! I love my NRS!


Good point on the foot bar, didn't think about that!

only issue is it's a 2.5hr drive each way to the distributor, have asked for replacement and hoping they will courier it to me. 

Luckily I have a friend that's laid miles of pipe in his life so if need be he can help me knock this off pretty easily


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## elkhaven (Sep 11, 2013)

jonathankirby said:


> Good point on the foot bar, didn't think about that!
> 
> only issue is it's a 2.5hr drive each way to the distributor, have asked for replacement and hoping they will courier it to me.
> 
> Luckily I have a friend that's laid miles of pipe in his life so if need be he can help me knock this off pretty easily


Hacking things down is not that hard and you can get it exactly the width you want.... if that is indeed 6" narrower and a factory length, I get it... but I like my frame to sit as wide as possible, right at the edge of the rub strip or curve of the tubes. The foot bar is more of a PIA as you have to cut half of your total shortening length of each side to keep the bend centered.... But if you are hours of travel from your supplier, I know which one I'd choose to do.... I'd much rather tinker than drive.


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## walterwhite (Jan 25, 2017)

griz said:


> Nice boat.
> 
> I see you skipped my advice to measure for the frame after you get the raft though. that’s one super sloppy fit you got there, dude. Good luck with it.


haha. I think someone ordered the wrong parts.


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## jonathankirby (Feb 17, 2019)

walterwhite said:


> haha. I think someone ordered the wrong parts.


Yep haha! Was supposed to be 60" wide, not 66" that I got. Not sure if it was NRS shipping the wrong ones or the distributor ordering the wrong ones, my invoice/estimate was for 60" so I'd guess NRS sent the wrong ones but who knows, oh well!


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## jakebrown98 (Mar 4, 2008)

I just stumbled on to this thread having missed the first go round in winter. I'm glad you are happy with your choice--it seems a good one to me. 

I'm dumbfounded that no one has asked what river you are flying into every year. Perhaps everyone else knows? Or maybe I am the only one uncouth enough to ask? Rest assured, I can't fish for shit, but a week in the wilderness after a sweet helo ride sounds pretty cool. Hopefully, for your sake, that pricy flight keeps it all pristine for you.


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## ski_it (Aug 27, 2015)

jakebrown98 said:


> I just stumbled on to this thread having missed the first go round in winter. I'm glad you are happy with your choice--it seems a good one to me.
> 
> I'm dumbfounded that no one has asked what river you are flying into every year. Perhaps everyone else knows? Or maybe I am the only one uncouth enough to ask? Rest assured, I can't fish for shit, but a week in the wilderness after a sweet helo ride sounds pretty cool. Hopefully, for your sake, that pricy flight keeps it all pristine for you.



Unless you are going to some crappy place that you don't care about, then
under NO circumstance should you say where you are going on a bulletin board like this. Fastest way to have it over run.


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## griz (Sep 19, 2005)

Man, every time I look at that frame on that raft I see allot more than 6” of slop and error. Looks more like 6” of slop on each side to me, really. 

Bringing it in 3” on each end doesn’t look like you’re still even getting on the chafer. Three extra inches on each side is usually still on the chafer if fitting for center of tube or slightly past center of tube.

There’s actual daylight coming through on that far side.

Edit...you also might want shorten those side rails to give yourself more room for a gear pile in the back. 13fter is pretty small as is so your going to need to maximize that space.

Run your frame anyway you like, no doubt. Zero shits given here, of course.


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## jonathankirby (Feb 17, 2019)

griz said:


> Man, every time I look at that frame on that raft I see allot more than 6” of slop and error. Looks more like 6” of slop on each side to me, really.
> 
> Bringing it in 3” on each end doesn’t look like you’re still even getting on the chafer. Three extra inches on each side is usually still on the chafer if fitting for center of tube or slightly past center of tube.
> 
> ...


I don't disagree and defer to everyone here, when it comes to rafting I'm entirely new. I do appreciate everyone's suggestions

The centre to centre is 56", nrs frames are 54", 60" and 66" wide, liked the nrs frame due to how it breaks down for the heli basket. I can always trim up the width on the 60" if needed. My friend bought the same set up and it looks pretty good in terms of where the side rails sit.

As for the river, it's not too hard to find out but there's a lot of choices in BC. Let's just say it's near Waldo Creek.


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## jakebrown98 (Mar 4, 2008)

jonathankirby said:


> I don't disagree and defer to everyone here, when it comes to rafting I'm entirely new. I do appreciate everyone's suggestions
> 
> The centre to centre is 56", nrs frames are 54", 60" and 66" wide, liked the nrs frame due to how it breaks down for the heli basket. I can always trim up the width on the 60" if needed. My friend bought the same set up and it looks pretty good in terms of where the side rails sit.
> 
> As for the river, it's not too hard to find out but there's a lot of choices in BC. Let's just say it's near Waldo Creek.


I like the way you think. I've only made it up to BC once for rafting and it sure is amazing. Several of those rivers are on the bucket list. I'll probably never make it to yours but who knows. Enjoy the new boat and your trip this summer.


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## jonathankirby (Feb 17, 2019)

Hi everyone, just got back from the trip.

Thanks for all your help and advice. 13ft was just the right size for two people. Could have fit a touch more gear if needed but was happy with this set up. Sort of wished I got 14fter but at the same time moving the folded raft around as it is is a bit of a bitch.

Thinking next year I want to add a dry box or another yeti to row from. Would be nice to have a bear proof container to store our dry food and cookware in(had a yeti 25 we put all the dry food in this year-but that was tight).

Great weather and ok fishing.


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## The Mogur (Mar 1, 2010)

jonathankirby said:


> I was thinking a 13 or 14' raft with a normal frame(nrs Bighorn), don't need the fishing frame as 99% of the time I get out and fish while wading.
> 
> What would you recommend for this type of water/purpose?
> 
> Thanks so much!


Doesn't matter what size or type of raft, as long as you drain your ice chest every morning and use pin-and-clip oarlocks.


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## matt man (Dec 23, 2011)

The Mogur said:


> Doesn't matter what size or type of raft, as long as you drain your ice chest every morning and use pin-and-clip oarlocks.


Amen to that brother!!
I’ll even go a step further, I leave my drain cracked. 
I know that ain’t kosher, but I’ve also never been on a trip where my POS split lid Coleman, did not outlast everyone else’s cooler. 
( it is pretty sad when a $500 Yeti becomes a trash cooler at the end of the trip...)


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## jonathankirby (Feb 17, 2019)

matt man said:


> Amen to that brother!!
> I’ll even go a step further, I leave my drain cracked.
> I know that ain’t kosher, but I’ve also never been on a trip where my POS split lid Coleman, did not outlast everyone else’s cooler.
> ( it is pretty sad when a $500 Yeti becomes a trash cooler at the end of the trip...)


I froze ice before hand(thank god because the local grocery store ran out of blocks). Used two-2 gallon water jugs, kept the meat cold and everything else pretty cool for 8 days in 82+ weather, still had ice in the jugs(maybe 60% or so) before we cracked them to drink on the last day.


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