# Cataract Canyon Forecast



## BmfnL (May 23, 2009)

Bad kitty.


----------



## squeakyboater (Apr 14, 2008)

Hells Ya.

I am already working on plans to run it mid June. Its class III right?


----------



## Stevie D (Jun 11, 2009)

Opacity of the lens or capsule of the eye, causing impairment of vision or blindness.


----------



## pinemnky13 (Jun 4, 2007)

Big kitty!


----------



## kennyv (Jan 4, 2009)

Class III, count me IN! I just got my pool roll this winter (60% of the time) and I'm ready! Squeaky, PM me about hittin' the kitty when you get that permit. I've already got my float bags blown up and I'm working on my off-side! I'm ready for some big water class III! See you on the river....I'll be the guy with his eyes wide and his toes up!


----------



## squeakyboater (Apr 14, 2008)

I dont think you even have to roll down there. I have heard that the waves are so big that if you flip, you will just roll right back over when you go down the backside of the wave. 

Plus, there is a jet boat down there so what is the worst that can happen?


----------



## pinemnky13 (Jun 4, 2007)

Plus, there is a jet boat down there so what is the worst that can happen?[/QUOTE]

my sister could be waiting for you naked.


----------



## squeakyboater (Apr 14, 2008)

Is that a good thing? Some sisters are hot!


----------



## SBarn (Mar 5, 2010)

29 rapids in 28 miles. 10 of those are solid class 4. There is a video out there of Little Niagra ripping the frame off an oar boat as it gets worked. It flat out pulled three of the four D rings off the rubber. At flows like they predict, it can be deadly. Whats the worst that can happen? You can get recirculated and end up a half mile from your boat before you hit the surface of the water. Cataract is no place for arrogance or cockiness. Anything over about 30,000 is terrifying.


----------



## SBarn (Mar 5, 2010)

Oh yeah! At high flows, be sure to wear a type 5 PFD with a crotch strap as those rapids have a history of ripping PFD's off the user if you don't have the right gear.


----------



## squeakyboater (Apr 14, 2008)

So, will my 14 ft cat be enough boat? And I am not sure what a type V vest is, but I just sent my vest in to get the gut buckle fixed.


----------



## Domar Dave (Feb 4, 2011)

squeakyboater said:


> So, will my 14 ft cat be enough boat? And I am not sure what a type V vest is, but I just sent my vest in to get the gut buckle fixed.


 I was once in the Big Drops at about 33,000 CFS rowing an 18' Avon and wishing I was in a bigger boat. On the same trip I watched two women in a double ducky nail the Drops without blinking an eye. Your 14 may be fine, or not.


----------



## squeakyboater (Apr 14, 2008)

I was planning on bringing almost nothing so my boat will be super light. I have always prefered a light boat when on stuff like Browns and Clear Creek because the boat is a lot more nimble.


----------



## Canada (Oct 24, 2006)

*anyone have any idea how many feet this will add back to Powel?*

I'm sure a forecast exists, but I don't know where?


----------



## Fuzzy (May 25, 2005)

Just a bunch of one move moves

I see a storm coming on the North Sea


----------



## asleep.at.the.oars (May 6, 2006)

Canada said:


> I'm sure a forecast exists, but I don't know where?


Bureau of Reclamation - Upper Colorado Region Water Operations: Current Status: Lake Powell

Not as much gain in elevation in Powell as before because they're sending a bunch of extra water down to Mead.


----------



## pasta (May 17, 2006)

IMO I like to be heavy. I have a 14' S,B, And I am sure I would go over in a lot of places had it not been for the weight in the boat. There aren't any places where you have to make a quick decision. What you want is punching power. The first 25 rapids are easy and fun. Once you go through the beginning of #2 it's pretty bouncy until you go over the edge of 3. Once your over the edge of 3 if your in the gut then your usually toast anyways. no matter what size boat ya got.
If you don't know what a class V PFD is, Perhaps a safety course is in order.


----------



## squeakyboater (Apr 14, 2008)

A safety course? Like a swiftwater rescue course? I thought that those were mostly for dealing with stuff that happens on creeks, like strainers and such.


----------



## Roy (Oct 30, 2003)

Big Sur's gonna go for sure! Hidden in there: 90% chance that Big Sur (CO @ Cameo) will be in at 22,000, and the average guesstimate is 28k!


----------



## kennyv (Jan 4, 2009)

hey sbarn, class III deadly? underwater for a 1/2 mile? are you crazy? I'm not putting a crotch strap on my cypress gardens pfd and I'm sure as hell not taking a swiftwater rescue class for class III. Dude, I've got a 60% pool roll, _what could possibly happen? _Squeaky and I will be FINE. Keep your toes up squeaky, it's deadly class III! Look for me at Potash, Squeaky; I'll be the one with the Aquaterra Keowee who smells slightly like urine! Let's go get some!


----------



## squeakyboater (Apr 14, 2008)

Sounds good. There will be a lot of people at the put in when it gets high right? When you say keep your toes up, do you mean like under the bar on my cat that I rest my feet? Why would I do that?


----------



## kennyv (Jan 4, 2009)

keep your toes up, you know, when you're swimming, 'cause that's what I'd be doing if I only had a 60% pool roll. 

The first time I rowed CAT it was 32K and I was in a 14' SB. It's big down there (way big), and I only saw it at 32k. I've heard of 36' j-rigs flipping and that thing about ripping D-rings off at l.niagra is true. I saw the video. At the same time, I know people who have swam Satan's Gut at 70k. I guess my point is that's it's big big water with a tremendous amount of force, but also a tremendous amount of forgiveness too. And besides we're in our living rooms, not out there, so let's have a laugh and talk some shit. I'll see at potash with my keowee and cypress gardens lifejacket. Don't worry. I'm sure we'll be able to hitch the shuttle...it's roadside, right?

SYOTR.


----------



## cmike1 (Sep 10, 2006)

How long does it take to get through westwater at 54,000?


----------



## squeakyboater (Apr 14, 2008)

I think that it is road side. It is the white rim trail that parallels most of the river right? And you can hike out in a bunch of areas like Indian creek and Dark canyon.

The important question is do you tip the jet boat if they rescue you?


----------



## wildh2onriver (Jul 21, 2009)

cmike1 said:


> How long does it take to get through westwater at 54,000?


About 20 minutes at 30K, it's only about 2.5 miles through the rapids. At 54K you should be in overdrive. The Room and the Rock at those levels are like nothing you've ever seen--make sure you use the groover that morning.


----------



## johnmbowen (Apr 24, 2007)

Squeakyboter and Kennyv - are you talking about the same Cataract Canyon? Or are you being sardonic. SBarn is correct. At higher water, this section's rapids rival or surpass those in the Grand Canyon, some sections of rapids at V or more. Check out these videos: Canyonlands National Park - High Water Videos (U.S. National Park Service).

Cataract is a real test of your boating abilities during the drops. The jet boats only go down to near the rapids, not through them.


----------



## pasta (May 17, 2006)

Westawater @ 54,000 is a complete"Horror Show" Suckies and Boilies. So Big you'll shit your boat. You gotta have a death wish or be a complete idiot to even think about it!


----------



## kennyv (Jan 4, 2009)

Hey jonny bowen? Again, we're sitting in our living rooms talking shit because it's still cold outside (even in Moab), and of course I know Cat is huge and I've rowed Grand Canyon and I've seen the videos and I know ALOT of people well who have seen it big, even lost body parts (seriously) down there. Please, can't you see even alittle humor in this silly (and yes, sardonic) banter. 

And squeaky, ALWAYS TIP JETBOAT DRIVERS. I oughta know, I drive one. I'll see you down on lake powell. I'll be the guy trying to hitch a shuttle!


----------



## jeffsssmith (Mar 31, 2007)

pasta said:


> Westawater @ 54,000 is a complete"Horror Show" Suckies and Boilies. So Big you'll shit your boat. You gotta have a death wish or be a complete idiot to even think about it!


Or just be a competent, experienced boater that enjoys bigwater.


----------



## afaust (Jun 14, 2010)

Bad troll is bad.


----------



## squeakyboater (Apr 14, 2008)

On a side note, Who is f'n STOKED?

I missed peak last year by one day. I cant wait to go back and see it 50% higher. How much bigger does is get from 55k to 80k?


----------



## SBarn (Mar 5, 2010)

Yep. I am crazy. What's the worst that can happen? You can get separated from your boat and your party and maybe your PFD before you realize you are upside down. Cataract does not put a rescue boat after every rapid. Just after the one where you are the most likely to get seriously screwed and has a long history of hurting patries in lots of ways. 
A lot of guides run an 18' bucket boat so it will fill up and be heavy so as not to flip.
Remember it is easy to be bold from a safe distance.


----------



## pasta (May 17, 2006)

Cat is the only place I've ever seen people bailing water "INTO" the boat!


----------



## squeakyboater (Apr 14, 2008)

Come on people. Why is everyone so focused on how dangerous it is? I dont get this. It seems that everyone on the forum always focuses on the fact that you will surely die. Whether it be the MF or Cataract or whatever.

However, I thought that that is the reason that most people choose to run stuff like this. Of course there is some risk, but it is far and away worth the feeling of being upright between 2.5 and 3 and knowing that you are going to miss Satans Gut.


----------



## Andy H. (Oct 13, 2003)

Here's a thread about Cat at high water with highly detailed analysis of a run in one of the vids by a veteren boatman (and a bit about PFDs too...).

I had the honor of sitting around the campfire with a bunch of old time Canyon boaters one night; most had been guiding/running rivers in the west since the 70s or 80s and had seen a lot more than I ever will. The topic of high water Cat came up and after a few stories, the consensus among these guys about taking an oar rig on Cat at high water was "been there, done that, don't need to do it again."

-AH


----------



## stuntsheriff (Jun 3, 2009)

have you ever been in a pancaking triple rig at 80+?just wondering....


----------



## joecoolives (Jun 17, 2009)

cmike1 said:


> How long does it take to get through westwater at 54,000?


I was on a west water trip at 56,000 in 83. We were out of the canyon in 2 hours, with a stop at the cabin. The water came up to the ledge the cabin was on, instead of 20 ft down. Suckers and boilers. You would be floating along and all the sudden 20 ft waves would surface from nowhere, full size cottonwood tree's shooting to the surface. Wildest two hours of my life hands down.


----------



## Daledough (Jul 10, 2008)

pinemnky13 said:


> Plus, there is a jet boat down there so what is the worst that can happen?


my sister could be waiting for you naked.[/QUOTE]

No Jetboat this year. Be prepared or suffer the consequences (e.g. DIE!)


----------



## sealion (Oct 13, 2008)

I don't know squeakyboater, but I know KennyV, and that guy talks smack even when he's on the shuttle. As a matter of fact, he never shuts up.

The difference between Cat in the 50's and cat in the 80's is like the difference between the 30's and 50's. The big shit gets bigger. I remember going down there after a season in the 50's-70's, doing a deso trip and coming back when it was in the 40's. The guide giving the safety talk gave the 70k cfs talk, and when I got in there, I was like all relieved and casual that it was only in the 40's. I was down there the last 2 years in the 40's and that was big enough to remind me that the big stuff must be really big. 

Driving back east to visit Mom leaving the 6th of June so I am not tempted to be anywhere near that sh*t. But, if you're young in body or mind, and still invincible, you should go.

Plus, the Claw totally f*cks all the pre 2007 talks on how to run the Drops. Its like a second Niagara, on the left, between 2 and 3. Good luck with that.


----------



## ChrisL (Apr 11, 2007)

We're putting on Tuesday...


----------



## sealion (Oct 13, 2008)

YouTube - ‪Cataract Canyon 2011‬‏
If you want to see some friends of mine in their sport boats in Cat the other day when it was near or above 80k.

At 3:07 on the left side of the screen you get a one second glimpse of the Claw- the exploding wave between BD 2 and 3.


----------



## kerry edwards (Apr 24, 2009)

What kind of motors are they running on those Sportboats? Prop or jet? How many horsepower?


----------



## sealion (Oct 13, 2008)

Looking closer at the video on you tube, they said Cat was about 68k, not 80. prop motors, and I think they are in the 40hp range, some commercial companies run 90's.


----------



## mkashzg (Aug 9, 2006)

Just curiouis... Anyone been kayaking here at these levels lately?


----------



## Fuzzy (May 25, 2005)

Ran it in the mid 70,000 a few years back. I remember a great glass surf wave river right at #1. lots of sneaks. was really glad to be in a kayak instead of a raft! The last few rapids below Satin's gut are great fun with catch on the fly giant surfing. #15 was very impressive as was the big 3


----------



## squeakyboater (Apr 14, 2008)

Just got off a solo kayak trip. The canyon is class III at 80k. It is a wash.

Sounds like 65k is the better level.

Why were people who had not been on it a real high levels freaking so much earlier in the thread?


----------



## sealion (Oct 13, 2008)

Maybe because from 40,000ish on up 37 foot motorized craft can flip and run you over in your tiny little kayak.


----------

