# Kokatat serious fashion issue



## KSC (Oct 22, 2003)

I'm hoping this is something we can all agree on and hopefully convince Kokatat to change. It's finally time for me to replace my old beat up Kokatat drysuit. I was pretty psyched to hear that they were coming out with a rear zip drysuit in 2013. I did a little experiment this year. I did the same run with my drysuit and my drytop in an attempt to compare how much extra water the bump out from the front-zip really lets into the boat. The answer is, a lot - enough that I'd like to eliminate that. The problem is, I found a photo of their prototype and it's neon orange. Is it ever ok to wear something that looks like this?

Kokatat Media Kit: GORE-TEX® Icon Dry Suit

Can we all agree that Kokatat should come out with an alternate, less blinding, color scheme?


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## caspermike (Mar 9, 2007)

Yeah those are the new Jackson kayak designed Kokatat products. Jackson had lot of imput in the series. I'll be sticking to sweet

I don't get the weird patterns like the blocks on right arm..


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## huck it (Jul 23, 2011)

Looks like Ronald McDonald came up with that color scheme


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## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

I love my rear zip drysuit. But it is OS, and comes in my choice of colors within their limited stock. Come on, kayakers should LOVE that orange color! Isn't it cool that they call it "rear entry"?!?! Another plus!


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## caspermike (Mar 9, 2007)

Only if you like butt sex


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## [email protected] (Apr 26, 2006)

caspermike said:


> Only if you like butt sex


Mike that was a funny ass comment. Is sweet finally coming out with a drysuit? I have been told their customer service is shit, any experience?

Kevin, really? you are worried about color scheme? You are already off the market so who the hell cares what you look like? I kind of like the idea of more visible shit=safer, but I make anything look good.


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## caspermike (Mar 9, 2007)

I doubt it I haven't talked with sweet since the spring. The word was it would be like 1500 for a sweet dry suit and they weren't planning on making any cause of price. I like how the top and bottom go together Tom I'm not gonna buy another dry suit with a chest zipper. Regardless of how easy it is to get in and out. So it made my choice for sweet easier..


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## BAER (Nov 28, 2007)

here is the deal... the jackson stuff looks like a road cone, but you can order any of the less obtrusive colors with the back zipper for next year. The down fall on the back zipper is it is made of plastic to make it more flexible, instead of the burly metal one that comes on the gmer. 

Question, if you are in a bone dry dry suit what does it matter if your boat takes on a couple extra ounces. 

Went tubing the other day down the Gauley and took off my kokatat GMER dry suit, bone dry underneath. LOVE me some Kokatat.


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## deepsouthpaddler (Apr 14, 2004)

Road cone orange isn't so great, but the standard color option would be cool. Different zipper makes me think twice though.

I have experience the same... lots of water in the boat through the drysuit... I am dry, but I'm sloshing and the extra weight changes handling a little. You should get one kevin and let me know how rear entry goes for you.


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## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

BAER said:


> The down fall on the back zipper is it is made of plastic to make it more flexible, instead of the burly metal one that comes on the gmer.


Kokatat FAIL


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## Pizzle (Jun 26, 2007)

Wasn't the IR plaid a Jackson design as well? And Cripps, last time I checked you were paddling a Nomad, which is as leaky as it gets.


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## brandob9 (Jun 13, 2010)

It sounds like Jackson helped make a suit that is meant for playboating. For serious creeking and bushwacking, there is also a special edition with full cordura legs. 

It's a lot easier on the eyes: 










PS - I'm super jealous that Paul Kuthe got one of these with the Lichen colored top. It looks awesome.


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## coloclimber512 (Aug 29, 2009)

Are the using the Tzip similar to the IR dry suit?


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## DoubleYouEss (Oct 4, 2011)

That is what it looks like, I like that the TiZip is easier to zip, but I like the durability of the metal YKK zipper more...


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## CBrown (Oct 28, 2004)

Kevin, 
If you get a flat tire or break down on the highway, you are sure to be safe wearing your CDOT certified drysuit. Safety first!


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## Dwave (Mar 23, 2009)

Kokatat = the bomb. New colors...? Great. Change is the necessity of life. When it comes to performance and staying dry, no other compares. 

Like Baer...loving me some Kokatat!!!


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## RockyMt.Razorback (Apr 19, 2012)

I do not have a Dry suit but I am looking into getting one and of course Kokatat is a company I plan on going with but I am having a hard time figuring out how the zipper bumper lets water in the boat. Do the dry suits you guys mention not have a tunnel flap for your stray skirt? I Don't want to spend a lot of money on a dry suit if its going to let water into the boat I have Dry pants and a dry top now it lets no water in but I do get a little wet around the waist (which sucks in cold water boating).


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## brandob9 (Jun 13, 2010)

The suits come with an overflap that places the tunnel of your skirt into a tunnel of its own, kind of like 1 finger from one hand between 2 fingers from the other hand. It's very dry. Even when water does get in the boat, from things like scouting, a bad skirt or owning a Dagger, it doesn't matter at all - you can't feel it in your pajamas.


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## KSC (Oct 22, 2003)

Yes, I was more than a little embarrassed to even admit to considering fashion with respect to my kayaking attire, but that thing is more than construction cone orange, it's nuclear fallout radiated construction cone orange. I do acknowledge Campbell's point about it doing double duty.

Anyway, I'm much relieved that it can be ordered in any color. What the concern about the plastic zipper - that it's not as durable as the metal one? Guess I'll put my faith in Kokatat's bomber warranty policy.

In terms of it letting in water, yes obviously it's not that big of a deal, but some of us are anal. A gallon of water is like 8 1/2 pounds or something, right? And I hate the feeling of water sloshing around my feet. It's a personal problem.

To answer the question above, lots of people have theorized that the zipper creates a gap in the skirt that allows water to come in when you're being frequently submerged. Yes, there's a tunnel on GMER suits, but if you're constantly going deep through holes, you're going to get water pressure trying to push water through the tunnel. As I said, I became convinced that it was very significant after doing back to back to runs, one with a drysuit and one with a drytop and watching gallons of water pour out of my boat from the drysuit run and almost nothing after the drytop run.

Yeah Paul, the Nomad is exactly why I have to minimize all other boat leakage, else I might just sink.


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## stubby (Oct 13, 2003)

Its the same zip as the IR. I haven't had any problems with it. 

As for the colors Kevin, I've heard the bright flashy attracts the cougars...ala Josh's mom


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## KSC (Oct 22, 2003)

stubby said:


> As for the colors Kevin, I've heard the bright flashy attracts the cougars...ala Josh's mom


No shit? That changes everything...


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## [email protected] (Apr 26, 2006)

KSC said:


> Yes, I was more than a little embarrassed to even admit to considering fashion with respect to my kayaking attire, but that thing is more than construction cone orange, it's nuclear fallout radiated construction cone orange. I do acknowledge Campbell's point about it doing double duty.
> 
> Anyway, I'm much relieved that it can be ordered in any color. What the concern about the plastic zipper - that it's not as durable as the metal one? Guess I'll put my faith in Kokatat's bomber warranty policy.
> 
> ...


I don't think the zipper lets in water, my murse educated brain thinks that the legs on the drysuit hold water then when in your boat it leaks back into the boat. Try not getting your legs/shoes wet and see if that helps.


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## Nathan (Aug 7, 2004)

The zipper let's in some water, but I've found it to be insignificant compared to how much wet shoes brings in.


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## glenn (May 13, 2009)

Jackson is super anal about how much water is in the boat while playing in a feature. I'm thinking the average paddler doesn't care about the difference.


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## Claytonious (Jan 17, 2008)

I have a Kokotat with the front zipper and I don't notice that I get that much water in my boat. Maybe go with a tigher skirt tunnel? Of course I don't actually ever kayak, so it would be hard to get a lot of water into my boat when it just sits in my garage. 

Kayak less often = less water in the boat. Should take care of it.


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## DanOrion (Jun 8, 2004)

I'd like a color changing mood suit. Blue for calm and red for horny should cover it. Maybe that's what the arm patches are for on the new Kokotat.


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## caspermike (Mar 9, 2007)

I wouldn't give up on Kokatat yet guys. They do make some great products, new pfd and shorty and the standard but check this out, They will be coming out with a web enable customer dry suit. Where you can pick size, color, difference between metal and plastic zipper as well as choosing which materials to use, etc, etc!

Absolutely stepping up the industry. They got a new fan


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## RiverWrangler (Oct 14, 2003)

Personally I'm not buying the water coming in through my zipper bump. KSC, first you're talking about testing your suit on Bailey, then you're talking about deep holes; the two are mutually exclusive. I'm gonna agree with Tom that more comes in just on your legs, under your ankle guard, in your shoes etc. When you step in the boat directly from the water I shit ton of water pours off. I've done this test and been bone dry in my boat if I don't step in the water. My shoes are dry my boat is dry.

As for the new Kokatat stuff, it is going to be the bomb. For the serious wilderness creekboater you're still going to want the real deal metal zipper and you just can't put the metal zipper on the back - too uncomfortable + most people can't get them zipped on their own. I wouldn't want to be remote multi-day with the plastic zipper because of the greater risk of failure. If you're more into roadside runs, playboating and shorter day runs the Icon with back zipper entry is going to be badass. The plastic zippers should be lubed and babied even more than metal ones.

The best part, whatever you get from Kokatat is now going to be totally customizable on their site. The alien puke orange Jackson nightmare is basically just their custom suit that they're offering to everybody... cause everybody wants to wear what the Jacksons are wearing... or not, so you can pick your color, zipper type (front or back), cordura reinforcement or full cordura legs, and if you want you can even get it custom tailored. 

+ Kokatat has a lifetime warranty, made in the US of A, water tested and ya, I'm kind of cheerleader for this shit but I can't really understand why you wouldn't at least want a Kokatat dry suit, even if you can't afford it. Your shit breaks or starts to leak, you send it back, you get it fixed for free or a small charge, including servicing and replacing the plastic zippers. Nobpody else can really do that because they're made in China. That alone is worth it for me.


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## brandob9 (Jun 13, 2010)

On my last suit I was up to $40 for two trips back for 350+ patches. They probably lost money on my abuse of that suit, but made up a little when I just got a new one.


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## rpludwig (Feb 28, 2011)

*Fixed Mine*

reconditioned an old suit for less than $40 bucks in less than three weeks, Kokatat is awesome!


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## JCKeck1 (Oct 28, 2003)

Evan, thanks for writing all of that eloquence so I don't have to attempt it. Kokatat is one of the best brands that I've dealt with in any industry.
Joe


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## fullmer (Aug 23, 2006)

*Thank you Kokatat!*

You guys are crazy. I can’t wait to get my new orange Jackson Kokatat drysuit. Finally, I’ll be able to combine two of my favorite things to do in Durango—hunt elk and run the shit (aka Baker’s Box). (I know the flow is a bit low right now but everything still goes.) There’s nothing sweeter than pulling the trigger on a big bull in the crosshairs of your 30-06 while boofing The Plunger. This new hunter’s orange color and my orange Stomper 90 are the perfect set up for hunting/kayaking trips. You’re highly visible to other hunters (especially those poor bastards hiking through the woods) and you don’t have to worry about the blood when you’re quartering your latest kill. Just jump in the water and wash it all off. Combined with the Stomper 90, it’s the ultimate combo—you can easily fit the whole damn carcass in the back of your boat (except for the rack, which I strap on the front just for style points). I’ve already got mine on order. Thanks Kokatat! This steak’s on you!


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## KSC (Oct 22, 2003)

If you'd hung around for the Bailey Fest party this year you'd know that deep holes and Bailey are not mutually exclusive. But all this talk about Heise's mom and deep holes is more than I can handle on this cold lonely night.

I did experiment a bit with the rear entry in college when I was young and open minded. It was alright, but not really my thing. But with Heise's mom back in the picture, I'm willing to give it another shot. 

While I appreciate help with the scientific method, I assure you I didn't get out of my boat on either run. Everybody's setup is different so results will vary, but I get more water through the zipper than I'd like, so given the choice, I'd settle for the awkward rear entry. For once EJ and I agree, but it's going to take a while for us to settle our fashion disagreements.


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## coloclimber512 (Aug 29, 2009)

I like the rear entry on my dry suit. It is kinda tough to zip by yourself but not to difficult. Getting the flap that covers mine up flat is the hardest part. I have had good luck with keeping most of the water out of my boat. On average I probably empty 20-30 fl ounces or less out of my boat after a run on bailey or gore. I usually don't empty my boat until the end of the run right before I put it on the car.


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## whitewater_fishin (Mar 28, 2012)

I wonder if the new Jackson line drysuits will have a go-pro mount...


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## pilom (Dec 28, 2010)

At the Teva Mtn Games this year I overheard EJ discussing the new Kokatat suits at the putin to the Gore Creek downriver race. Apparently Dane was the primary influence on the visual design (read: them being so orange). Apparently the first demo of this rear entry suit they gave Dane he said, "I like it, but it should be more orange." So they made another one with a little more orange. Dane saw it and said "No, like way more orange." So they made this color scheme and Dane said "Yeah thats about right!"

So blame Dane Jackson for the color scheme.


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## Dwave (Mar 23, 2009)

Fullmer, let's after it this weekend. I hear there's a heard of elk hiding river right above Long Rapid. Let's bring the rods too. Blast and cast. We can carry the parts out in the pool above Long Rapid and keep on going when we're done.


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## whitewater_fishin (Mar 28, 2012)

so the go-pro is mounted on the shoulder. makes sense....


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## caspermike (Mar 9, 2007)

I'd hold out a little longer till the custom Kokatat is available. You can get it with a front zipper. Won't have to move down to Jacobi status and what ever size and color you want.... Just saying patience is a virtue specially when spending 1g on a good dry suit


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