# New rafter here..



## FishnPhil (Aug 27, 2007)

I can't figure out how to edit my first post, so...

I'm really interested in floating the Blue river, both from silverthorne to Green Mtn. and from Green Mtn. to the Colorado. I was wondering what your guys take on those sections are, especially considering the type of raft that I have. In my current raft I'd be a bit scared to do any big drops because the bottom of the raft is open and I've never done anything like that before. From what I can see from the road it looks easy and perfect for my raft, but I really would like to get first hand info from people who have run those sections. Is there anything I should be worried about or any reason I shouldn't attempt to float that section?

Thanks for any advice.


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## Ture (Apr 12, 2004)

Looks fun. I've always thought that if only I were a fisherman I'd be in heaven because some of the places I end up in when I am running creeks and rivers seem so remote and they must be full of big fat trout that have never seen a hook.

A swiftwater rescue class might be a good idea if you want to run class III and you have no whitewater experience. Either that or hang out with some experienced folks that can show you down some stuff for the first season.

The biggest things for a beginner in easy rocky mountain whitewater to keep in mind are (in my opinion): always wear a PFD, dress warmly, and keep your feet off the bottom if you are moving down the river (like if you are swimming after your boat flips) because if you catch your foot in a crack then that is the end. 

The most basic equipment that you should always have with you are: PFD, loud whistle, throw rope, knife, and a few caribiners. Everything but the rope should be on your body. Lots of kayakers carry a rope on their body but that is for experienced folks. Put the caribiners in a pocket so they don't snag on anything.


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## Ture (Apr 12, 2004)

oh...i just saw your 2nd post with the thing about the feet coming out the bottom. You definitely don't want them sticking out the bottom when you are moving down the river. Foot entrapment is very dangerous.

Maybe you can put a bottom in the boat for downriver stuff? The only time I would think it was safe to have the feet down would be on a lake or in a calm eddy where you are in complete control and are not being pushed by the current.


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## Badazws6 (Mar 4, 2007)

#1, Always boat with a buddy! He is your backup, the one that will pull your ass out of the river if your in real trouble.


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## FishnPhil (Aug 27, 2007)

Ture, yes I have felt the rocks grab my fins. These boats are designed so that you can easily lift your legs out of the water and rest them in front of you while you oar through the whitewater, that is as long as your leg isn't stuck on a rock! 

With a bit of practice floating the fishable sections, it is very easy to use your legs to keep the boat on track down the stream and fish at the same time. Then before rapids bring your legs up in the boat and grab the oars. I've had to land a fish while going through riffles, I'd say less than class 1 water, and had to be real careful to not have my legs dangling down but at the same time keep the fins in the water to help keep the boat straight. I think it's a unique experience for sure, takes practice, and still you're taking a chance. I wouldn't leave my legs down in water that moves very fast though, and yes I can get a bottom for the raft, but I don't know that I want to. One of the great things about these rafts are that you can float and fish at the same time while using your legs/fins to control the raft. I think you would be very very surprised at the amount of control finning gives you in these rafts, I sure was, but again I wouldn't leave my legs down through real rapids.

My PFD is one of those co2 inflatable ones and it's ALWAYS on. Very comfortable and class III rated. I was also told to attach a rope to me and my raft, it would help pull me out of a hole that the boat makes it through or I could use my pocketknife or unclip the beener if I needed to be seperated from the rope. Sounds like that might not be a good idea?

I did go down Yarmony twice now, which looks to me like a low class III, the first time I got sucked out into it and rode right down the middle of it. It was a real rush and the raft didn't have a problem at all. I see why you guys like kayaks so much, what a blast.


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## GoodTimes (Mar 9, 2006)

Looks like a great way to fish our rivers....

However, just wanted to say that a foot entrapment could happen at anytime. Even in calm, slow-moving water, the right combination of rocks can trap your foot and a little bit of current can be pretty forceful. Be VERY careful with your feet submerged and ALWAYS have a knife readily available (on your PFD). Especially if you start to challenge yourself and move up a notch in river difficulty. Things change quickly in rivers with whitewater.

I think you'd be fine on those sections of river......but I don't think having your feet submerged would ever be a good idea.


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## jaffy (Feb 4, 2004)

As long as you have a place to brace your feet out of the water, I don't see why you would need a bottom. 



FishnPhil said:


> I was also told to attach a rope to me and my raft, it would help pull me out of a hole that the boat makes it through or I could use my pocketknife or unclip the beener if I needed to be seperated from the rope. Sounds like that might not be a good idea?


Ack! Definitely don't do this. I know of at least one incident where a person had a rope attached to them where their boat went on one side of a rock and they went on the other. If the water isn't too strong you might be able to unclip a beener, provided the rope didn't wrap around some other part of your body, but I wouldn't count on it.

Generally speaking a swimmer will flush out of a hole faster than a boat anyway. You won't find too many holes on class III or less that would keep a swimmer, but if you do get in one you can't get out of try tucking up into a ball and let it flush you out the bottom.

Is that inflatable pfd similar to what you use scuba diving? I don't think I've seen one before.

Just looked at the pics again, and it doesn't really look like it has a lot of floatation or that it attaches snugly to your body. When you say it's rated for class III, do you mean it's a type III PFD? Because those are for calm water. 

Check out NRS's web site for more info:
NRS - ABCs of PFDs


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## FishnPhil (Aug 27, 2007)

Yes there is a place to put your feet up, I'll check my pics to see if I have any that demonstrate that part of the raft. It's real nice, but I will remember your guys advice about dangling legs and getting trapped, again I would never try to fin my way through a real rapid, I would rather break my line on a fish and not risk my life than attempt finning through a rapid and flipping the raft. 

Also, thanks for the heads up on the rope attached to me and the boat, I was real unsure about that, but some of the things I was told made a little sense (probably more sense to me since I have no previous whitewater knowledge). I am a very strong swimmer (former lifeguard) but I understand the power of water, especially moving water, so I'll take the tips to heart for sure.

These rafts are rated, I think, for Class IV, but I have absolutely no interest in ever getting into that big of water in this type of raft, it just doesn't make sense. I bought it for float fishing, fishing being the key word and there's just not much fishing in class III and up. I am a real articulate planner and don't like to take chances, I'll portage before running something that looks too much for me no problem.

Badazws6, you are right going alone is not a good idea and I'll keep that in mind too. Unfortunatley I do fish a lot by myself, but those times I'll stick to the class II and less runs only.

The PFD I have is this one:
Sports Authority - Stearns Ultra Inflatable Type III Vest

When you release the co2 and it inflates, it basically doubles in size.


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## Andy H. (Oct 13, 2003)

Hi Phil,

Now that I'm able to stop staring at that REALLY freaky avatar of yours, I'll recommend the book "The Complete Whitewater Rafter" by Jeff Bennett. You can find this used on Amazon for about $10 w/ shipping. Also, if you're in the Denver area, you may want to stop by DownRiver Equipment Co. in Wheat Ridge (just off Ward Rd.) where you can check out lots of boating gear and get a feel for what you're getting yourself into. They've got a lot of gear for float fishing that you'll soon be drooling over...

The guys that have responded have given lots of good info and I'll recommend getting a Type III PFD (the "Type" classification has nothing to do with the level of rapids you expect to run with the PFD). This will be a sturdy PFD that allows a lot of movement and doesn't depend on a gas-activated system so it can be used repeatedly - there are probably also fishing vests available that you don't have to worry about puncturing with a stray hook. 

As for running Class III rapids in your boat (such as those on the Upper Blue below Silverthorne), you may want to stick to Class II, as your oar setup may not be durable enough to withstand stresses encountered in the bigger, more powerful hydraulics of Class III rapids. If you look at photos of rafters on this site you'll see that most use aluminum rowing frames, have either oarlocks or "pins and clips" and also use very sturdy oars. Here's one (of many) example of the frame setup I'm talking about: http://www.mountainbuzz.com/swap/showproduct.php?product=7705&cat=3

There are lots of ways to get there without spending a bundle, such as home-made wood or steel frames, etc.

As with anything, ask yourself, "Where do I want to go?" and then "What equipment do I need to get there safely and consistently?" Chances are, 95% of the fishing spots you want to go to are accessible with the rig you've got now, however running Class III whitewater will probably require another level of gear and expertise to do safely.

Good luck and welcome aboard!

-Andy


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## stinginrivers (Oct 18, 2003)

I am super impressed with how easily you guys can maneuver those things, I floated the green a few weeks ago and those pontoon boats were everywhere. You should be good to go on the upper c and the blue below green mtn.

Silverthorne to Green Mtn though has boulder canyon near the end just below the campground and I would be a very hesitant to say you would be fine through there. It is a fast shallow section of river, where foot entrapment is a real concern. 

As well as your pfd and wader set up. On mellow sections you should be fine but in any sort of whitewater I would be very concerned to wear that type of pfd, their are some great fishing specific pfd's on the market now and more coming out for next season please take a look at those.



> Fishing Personal Floatation Devices - Extrasport®


The other thing to think about when running rapids is that you are wearing your waders, if you take a swim and they fill up you are then wearing an anchor. I could be wrong but I am not sure how well those belts create a seal to prevent water from coming in.

Good luck, boat with partners and maybe take a river guide training next season.


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## WhiteLightning (Apr 21, 2004)

Howdy. 

The teather you were talking about was probably a flip line. This actually isn't something you teather yourself to the boat, or something like that. That would be a very bad idea. In fact, you want your raft profile as smooth as possible without having equipment dangling around that you could get tangled in. Rafters and guides usually wear a flip line around their waist. Usually this is a piece of webbing, rope, sewn runner, etc. that is doubled around. It's usually about 6 feet long, and is worn like a belt, snugly, with a carabiner as the "buckle". Only use locking (I use autolocker here) carabiners (see above about not wanting to get tangled up with your boat and gear if it goes underwater). The flip line is used for rescue (take SWR class) uses as an anchor, etc. It is also used if your boat flips, you can climb on the bottom of it, clip the flip line to the chicken line or a D-ring, and fall backwards using the line to leverage the righting of the boat. Of course, your boat, being that it isn't a normal full size whitewater raft, you probably could just muscle it over in the water without climbing on the bottom.

You should get a "real" PFD insead of the CO2 rip cord one. In fact, Extrasport make a pretty sweet looking one that is a PFD and fishing vest all in one: Osprey - Extrasport®

As mentioned before, carry a knife and a whistle. Get a throw bag and practice with it. (So you can help your buddy or others on the river) Also, get a buddy, and if you want to get into more solid class III type boating, you will probably want a traditional river raft. Yours seems more like a hybrid raft/float tube.


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## WhiteLightning (Apr 21, 2004)

stinginrivers said:


> I am super impressed with how easily you guys can maneuver those things, I floated the green a few weeks ago and those pontoon boats were everywhere. You should be good to go on the upper c and the blue below green mtn.
> 
> Silverthorne to Green Mtn though has boulder canyon near the end just below the campground and I would be a very hesitant to say you would be fine through there. It is a fast shallow section of river, where foot entrapment is a real concern.
> 
> ...


We must have posted at the same time. Guide school is where you could learn all the basics like Stingingrivers said. There are fishing guide schools (make sure you do one that involves boating or "oar cert" as the fishing guys call it, and you might learn some fish-related tricks too.


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## tuberslickmysweatyballs (Sep 24, 2005)

FishnPhil said:


> and from Green Mtn. to the Colorado. .


i wouldn't recommend this run for newbies. there are about 8 diversion dams you need to run and you can't fuck up. some are pretty good drops that tier off. it's all private land below the bridge with land owners who are more than happy to have you arrested for trespassing so you can't portage and you can't scout. you can't touch a rock. your oar can't touch the river bed. any of this is trespassing. and diversion dams are dangerous too.

and,yeah, get another pfd. nrs makes some good,basic,highly functional ones for $50-60. not something to cut corners on.

good luck,take your time getting the skills and be safe. fish ain't worth dying over.


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## tuberslickmysweatyballs (Sep 24, 2005)

FishnPhil said:


> *I was also told* to attach a rope to me and my raft, it would help pull me out of a hole that the boat makes it through or I could use my pocketknife or unclip the beener if I needed to be seperated from the rope.


don't ever listen to this person again.


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## teletoes (Apr 16, 2005)

*Also*

Another thing to consider with using these types of rafts is that they usually have 2 or fewer air chambers. Rafts designed for whitewater have 4 or more chambers. You’ll appreciate the extra flotation after an “explosive decompression” on a rock in a class 3+ rapid.

As it has already been said - keep you feet out of the current! You shouldn’t need to control the boat with fins to bring in a fish. I’ll just toss the rod onto the floor and pin it with my foot while I work the oars. I’ve often hooked into a fish just above a rapid, pulled the fish thru the whitewater, caught an eddy and brought ‘em in. Sure you loose some fish, but you were going to let them go anyway.


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## Chip (Apr 7, 2007)

*Hmmmm.*

Looks like a great fishing boat. If you want to run rocky whitewater, it'd make sense to get another boat built for the purpose. 

Can't see the bottom setup in your pics, but to run any sort of whitewater you need a solid bar for your feet and back support so you can brace and keep your seat. Plus decent oars and a frame that'll take a bit of stress.

Another item is tracking (the ability of a boat to hold a line). In waves, short boats with rounded ends or a lot of rocker tend to spin sideways and then flip. Even on the relatively mild whitewater below Flaming Gorge Dam, quite a few small fishing rafts and cats get flipped. The drift boat guides (I'm told) get tired of rescuing swimmers tangled up in line with waterlogged waders. 

Did anyone say never to wear waders or fins running rocky whitewater? I've seen fish dudes in waders fall off guide rafts in easy whitewater (between casting holes). In swift water, those seemingly tight-fitting neoprene chest waders can turn into water balloons. Get a farmer john. 

Worst-case scenarios, perhaps. But you'd be better off fishing from a good whitewater boat than running whitewater in a boat designed exclusively for for fishing. 

yrs, Chip


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## Ice Water (Aug 28, 2007)

Here is some more randomn information... I'm from Alaska and those boats can be coveted. However, they are designed to be on Class I & II stuff. To again stress the importance of foot entrapment or even a pin... If you start to see any white water - your feet need to be out of the water & I am talking ripples... The reason that so many love your boat in AK is that they take a large power boat through the major rivers - then go up small creeks with a raft like yours. It is great - and can allow you to get places where walking isn't possible. This may sound crazy, but find a pond or a lake and practice... Go backward, and make corners, flip your raft while you are on it - then right it again... Of course take an occasional break and fish the lake fish too! - Like it was said before, if you were interested in going places that are Class II+ get a floor - and a support frame. (However with the cost, I would reccomend just saving for a white water raft.) Have fun!


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## vardaddy (Jun 14, 2004)

I've got some experience with your situation. I'm a rafter, kayaker and fisherman. I don't own my own personal pontoon but have been on several friends. Their's were quite a bit different from yours with cataraft type of set up where they have two pontoons, a metal frame in between, pegs to put your feet on, seat etc.... I'm sure if you do research you can find these. I'm not saying they were any better but seemed better manueverable and suited to whitewater than what I can see of your raft in your pics. 

Those that I've been on also say they are rated to class IV. As someone who owns a raft and has boated class IV water I certainly question that rating as do the people that own them. However class III is not out of the question. I and also the owners have sucessfully navigated them down class III and felt comfortable doing so but would not without experience. All of these people have had a lot of experiences in water before they started down class III water. So I say it is not out of the question but it sounds like you should take some time and get some experience, go with others that know the river, take a class etc.... Also generally the class III water was lower and not at peak flows when of course the fishing tends to be better. One last thing there are different levels to class III and if you are ready to transition pumphouse (the upper colorado run) would be a good one to check out. 

After a while if you continue floating and fishing you might find a desire to get a raft or drift boat. Especially if you go into D.R.E. and see some of their fishing set ups that will make you drool. If you get to that point but can't afford the luxury of D.R.E set-up and want some advice I'd be happy to give some recommendations on cheaper ways to do it.


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## FishnPhil (Aug 27, 2007)

Wow guys, thanks for all the info and advice. The blue river from Green Mtn to the Colorado is one that I am really hoping to float at some point, but I wasn't planning on it anytime soon. I figure I better know exactly what I am doing before trying that stretch. The blue from Silverthorne, it sounds like I would want to take out at the campground, no problem there, and that's another section I figure needs to be floated in the spring or during higher water than late summer.

For specs and other info about these rafts (the first link is the one I have):
Big Sky Inflatables - Home of the Water Master
One Man Raft Kickboat Inflatable Rafts Rafting Equipment Rafting Supplies
I'm pretty sure there's some video of these guys running some class IIIs, again though, I'm not aiming to whitewater, I want to fish. I just figure that I'll always have a good chance of having to get by one or two class IIIs throughout a day floating, so I want to be prepared and be able to handle it, I have full confidence that these rafts can handle low to mid class IIIs, I just need to get my skills and confidence rowing up. I've also read about the accidents and deaths that have happened on the Needleye? rapid above radium and that is a bit freaky to hear about. 

So, am I right in saying that Yarmony rapid the last two weeks was a low class III? I was real surprised how easy it was to stay to the left side of that one the second time around, even after the first time I got sucked out into a bit bigger water than I intended and that was only my second time out but I was with someone else that has a couple years experience in these rafts.

As far as the pontoons are concerned, I looked into those a lot before I got these rafts. I didn't feel that sitting that high off the water in a personal pontoon would be comfortable and I have watched guys try to float and fish out of those and it just doesn't work well. I also looked at and thought long about a full size whitewater raft with a fishing frame on it, but several things made me think twice about those, gas, trailer, setup/takedown, must always go with two people if you want to fish while floating, it would cost me 3+ times as much money compared to these rafts, and lots of other factors.

My primary goals in getting these rafts:
- fishing new water, private water, and hard to access water. Knowing that, being able to float and fish at the same time was key for the private streches where you can't stop, touch bottom, etc.
- enjoy Colorado rivers in a new way and safely make it from the start to finish without losing any myself or any gear.
- float fishing alone, nothing higher than class IIs if alone and I'll be floating the popular sections too.


Trespassing is a concern as I don't want to invade on someone else's land, don't want to get shot at, don't want a ticket, etc. I know the rules/law regarding it, but I'm just curious how it is enforced for floaters. For instance, if someone "says" they saw you stopped or out of your boat, do they have to have a picture to prove it? It seems to me like an ahole owner could report everyone he sees float by.

Again, thanks for all the advice and info. I'm looking into the classes.


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## DurangoSteve (Jun 2, 2006)

I have a one-man pontoon that I fish from pretty often. It's been down several class IIIs without mishap, but I have a little rowing experience. My pontoon's frame and oarlock system are a little lightweight for IIIs, but there are many beefier options out there, with bigger, longer tubes, stronger frames, and stronger oars/locks. I've looked at "donut" boats like yours, but frankly pontoons/cats are much more maneuverable, and sitting up out of the water allows you to more easily read-and-run rapids.

I'd stick to IIs with your setup. You'll need more of a boat for IIIs. Enjoy!


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## vardaddy (Jun 14, 2004)

Sounds like you have done a low III already. I understand your not going out with the intent of running whitewater. It just so happens there are plenty of good rivers to fish where you will encounter it. I know the highlight for you is reeling in that 20+" brown. I go through phases in mid-july where every time out I'm going for fishing not whitewater but am fortunate to get both. Fish with others especially on rivers you don't know is the best advice. 

Funny I spent several years in Montana where this company is located but mainly saw the personal pontoon set-up. I don't think you lose anything fishing from the personal pontoons but that is irrelevant since right now you are not in the market to get a new personal pontoon. I will say though you can probably get a full fishing raft set up for only about double the amount if you look around in the used market and are not in a hurry. There are lots of people that buy sweet new fishing set ups all the time then don't really use them much and decide to eventually sell them at a discounted price. Yes if you want to float and fish you need someone with you but then you get the fun of the experience with someone else, some competition, it becomes an art to positioning the boat right and almost as satasfying to row someone into a fish as catching it, and it is easier to drink beer. Like I said down the road keep an eye out for used rafts. 

Trespassing is an issue to always think about. You're right about a-hole owners out there. This site has numerous stories about them and how to handle the situation best and what you're rights are. The thing to look out for that is most dangerous is some owners choose to string barbed wire or other things across the river in an attempt to block your passage which can create a danger. A pair of wire cutters is not a bad thing to have in your fishing gear.

Meanwhile enjoy the fishing. Remember even a bad day of fishing is better than a good day at work.


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## El Flaco (Nov 5, 2003)

I didn't see anyone make the distinction, so I thought I'd add this little nugget on PFD's:

A "Type III" PDF classification does not mean the vest is rated for *Class* III whitewater - The Coast Guard doesn't rate floatation in this way. The Skinny on USCG classification:

Personal flotation device - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## DurangoSteve (Jun 2, 2006)

Important point.

AND... Those CO2 PFDs don't cut it. If you're in a critical situation, yanking the tab to inflate it could be difficult... as your waders are filling up with cold water and complicating your life. And... if the CO2 cartridge fails, it's huff-n-puff time... while you're bashing your way down whitewater. Please, get a REAL PFD. Your life actually depends on it!





El Flaco said:


> I didn't see anyone make the distinction, so I thought I'd add this little nugget on PFD's:
> 
> A "Type III" PDF classification does not mean the vest is rated for *Class* III whitewater - The Coast Guard doesn't rate floatation in this way. The Skinny on USCG classification:
> 
> Personal flotation device - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## vardaddy (Jun 14, 2004)

andy mentioned it on pg 1 but it is an important point to reiterate


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## FishnPhil (Aug 27, 2007)

Yes I will consider a new pfd thanks for the info and links, and the correction as I said "Class III pfd" when I meant "Type III", like I said I'm pretty new to all this terminology, for a normal bass boat I just throw in the big old orange u-shaped vests, but those are not too comfy for this type of boating.

vardaddy, you are right on! That's exactly why I wanted to get on this forum and find more info, advice, and tips from you guys that actually know what you are doing. I'm not aiming to whitewater, but I'm bound to have to get by some in order to reach some fishing places, and that's where being knowledgable and prepared will keep me dry (and alive) IMO. From the research that I've done on the fishing sections of Colorado's major streams, it seems you hit one or two class IIIs on a full day float. Just one or two doesn't seem too bad.

Steve, have you tried the donut boats in the water? I didn't try the pontoons, I understand they are stable and have seen people in them, but I don't have a comparison other than watching guys in them try to fish and float and not being able to do it very well, but maybe that was their skill level more than the craft. That's the one thing so far I'm really liking is being able to float and fish at the same time. 

I really liked the 15ft. rafts with fishing frame but just can't justify it right now, I certainly didn't pay even close to retail for my raft so price wise it was hard to pass up. 

I have gone with another guy I met that has had his water master for two years. He has floated the arkansas, roaring fork, gunnison, and the colorado so this weekend we may head to the arkansas, Salida area I think, it sure is nice having someone to go with that has more experience than I do. If anyone sees me/us out there, these rafts are pretty rare around here so chance are it will be us, say hello.  But don't worry, you will never find me in Browns canyon, haha.


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## DurangoSteve (Jun 2, 2006)

I haven't tried the donut boats, so I don't have a valid opinion of them. The big thing I like about pontoons is the responsiveness. I can do a little "push-pull" thing with the oars and turn on a dime. Maybe not as fast as a kayak, but still pretty quick for an inflatable.

With fins and an anchor system, fishing from a pontoon is a cinch. I have two rod holders mounted to the rail behind my seat, so I am rigged-and-ready for nymphing and dries. And the rack behind my seat holds a cooler for lunch and frosty cold ones.

I'm sure the donut boats are WAY lighter than pontoons, a big plus for hike-in waters.

Anyhow, I would consider getting a better PFD. I have one of those CO2 deals, but never use it. If things get hairy - and they can REAL FAST - you want to be hanging onto your rod and not fumbling for a pull tab.



FishnPhil said:


> Yes I will consider a new pfd thanks for the info and links, and the correction as I said "Class III pfd" when I meant "Type III", like I said I'm pretty new to all this terminology, for a normal bass boat I just throw in the big old orange u-shaped vests, but those are not too comfy for this type of boating.
> 
> vardaddy, you are right on! That's exactly why I wanted to get on this forum and find more info, advice, and tips from you guys that actually know what you are doing. I'm not aiming to whitewater, but I'm bound to have to get by some in order to reach some fishing places, and that's where being knowledgable and prepared will keep me dry (and alive) IMO. From the research that I've done on the fishing sections of Colorado's major streams, it seems you hit one or two class IIIs on a full day float. Just one or two doesn't seem too bad.
> 
> ...


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## vardaddy (Jun 14, 2004)

I would say the people you've seen Phil probably didn't have the skill on the pontoon. I know since I've only used them a handful of times and never on a regular basis I have more difficulty than my buddies who take them out quite regularly. 
There are quite a few rivers I enjoy fishing that have multiple class IIIs so you're doing it right by finding ones with 1 or 2 and working your way up. I think the personal watercrafts are great and will probably some day have one in my floatilla arsenal. A man can never have enough boats.


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## shortbus (Jun 22, 2006)

*fishing craft*

Howdy Phil-

You may not be very interested in making a boat, but two buddies and I built some cataraft- style boats when I was in college that would serve you well, although they are heavier and less compact than your setup. I found myself in possession of six corsica kayaks, (old whitewater boats), two of each color. They really aren't great to kayak in, but not worth throwing away, so I tried to recycle them. I ordered dome 6061 aluminum handrail material from a welding shop, and some speedrail couplings, (I think like what Downriver uses). I bought some Carlisle oars/ locks, seat, etc... from NRS and the end result was a cataraft style boat not unlike an inflatable pontoon raft, but durable in that I wasn't afraid to run over rocks with them. we referred to them as the "Corsicats". The maiden voyage was Cataract Canyon- which has some good class IV stuff, and then the Yampa through Dinosaur, the Green, the Gunnison, etc... They only cost me about $250/ each to build, and they can be taken apart and used individually as kayaks if the need arises. We used them to surf rapid ten on Cat. I probably still have a rough plan of them on file which I could try to post if you're interested. Happy paddling


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## DurangoSteve (Jun 2, 2006)

There was a company in Carbondale building a similar kinda boat commercially. I've seen 'em, and they look great. Sadly, I think the company cratered. Lack of demand? High rent? Who knows. Cool idea, nevertheless.




shortbus said:


> Howdy Phil-
> 
> You may not be very interested in making a boat, but two buddies and I built some cataraft- style boats when I was in college that would serve you well, although they are heavier and less compact than your setup. I found myself in possession of six corsica kayaks, (old whitewater boats), two of each color. They really aren't great to kayak in, but not worth throwing away, so I tried to recycle them. I ordered dome 6061 aluminum handrail material from a welding shop, and some speedrail couplings, (I think like what Downriver uses). I bought some Carlisle oars/ locks, seat, etc... from NRS and the end result was a cataraft style boat not unlike an inflatable pontoon raft, but durable in that I wasn't afraid to run over rocks with them. we referred to them as the "Corsicats". The maiden voyage was Cataract Canyon- which has some good class IV stuff, and then the Yampa through Dinosaur, the Green, the Gunnison, etc... They only cost me about $250/ each to build, and they can be taken apart and used individually as kayaks if the need arises. We used them to surf rapid ten on Cat. I probably still have a rough plan of them on file which I could try to post if you're interested. Happy paddling


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## shortbus (Jun 22, 2006)

*Yup*

DurangoSteve, you're right, i forgot to mention that, but that was to be another point to my post. I believe the boats were known as Bi-Yaks or something like that, and they began by using Perception Revolution R-2 hulls they bought from perception on a closeout type thing. Then they began molding their own hulls, which had a place for a cooler and other little percs. I hadn't heard about them in a while, sorry to hear they went under.


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## FishnPhil (Aug 27, 2007)

I'm not sure if I should start a new thread or not, but I'm doing a bunch of reading and research and...

how or what is the best way or at least a good way to determine if a hydraulic is a "keeper"? Being focused more on fishing than playing, I will often tuck my boat right behind rocks and off the sides of eddys and fish them or re-rig flies. Obviously, pulling behind the wrong rock could prove dangerous, is there a secret to determining which ones to avoid? Do I really need to worry about keepers since I'll be in Class IIs mostly?

Thanks again for all the info guys.


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