# Anyone know where to find these?



## shappattack (Jul 17, 2008)

I tried to buy many of these for a work project in early 2011 with no success, he only had a few and wasn't planning on making more anytime soon. I found him to be a flakey business man, which is unfortunate because his design/products are pretty badass.


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## Dave Frank (Oct 14, 2003)

Obviously you know where they came from. Even at whatever price he was selling them at, they were not cost effective to make. I understood he made them mostly for fun when the tools would have been inactive. Sounds like they have found much better work than making cool raft parts for minimal profit.

I know a guy who has them; they are pretty slick.


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## Pinned (Apr 19, 2012)

*Ill Bite.*

Alright, what are they? Just curious.


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## jwaalkes (Feb 26, 2012)

*frame parts*

I consider myself one of the lucky ones who jumped on Zorba the Geek's frame parts when he was making them. I built a frame for my 15'6" Avon and his work and fitting was beyond beautiful. Like Shappattck said his stuff was badass...not cheap ($$) or lightweight but a work of art. Jeff


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## swimteam101 (Jul 1, 2008)

Dave Frank said:


> Obviously you know where they came from. Even at whatever price he was selling them at, they were not cost effective to make. I understood he made them mostly for fun when the tools would have been inactive. Sounds like they have found much better work than making cool raft parts for minimal profit.
> 
> I know a guy who has them; they are pretty slick.


That sucks. OBVIOUSLY i don't care where they come from just if I can get them. Anyone seen similar products for sale ?


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## swimteam101 (Jul 1, 2008)

*Hail Mary*

Bump, Maybe someone else would be willing to make something similar?


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## Dave Frank (Oct 14, 2003)

swimteam101 said:


> Bump, Maybe someone else would be willing to make something similar?


NOt profitable. Must be a labor of love.


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## HPMG (Nov 2, 2008)

FWIW I designed these fittings, Zorba saw a picture I posted here on the buzz and copied them. I had intended to put some on the market, but couldn't think of making them for what he was initially selling them for ($37??) Even when he bumped the price, I doubt it was profitable.


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## fdon (Jul 23, 2008)

HPMG said:


> FWIW I designed these fittings, Zorba saw a picture I posted here on the buzz and copied them. I had intended to put some on the market, but couldn't think of making them for what he was initially selling them for ($37??) Even when he bumped the price, I doubt it was profitable.


I was building a frame a couple years back and ZtG could not be found. So HPMG, if you were to machine these what would they cost? $50? $100? $150? I am thinking the material alone would cost more than $37.

The question was asked earlier about what these fittings are. They are simply the most badass fitting to convert a NRS type frame to a double rail frame.


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## tmaggert (Aug 18, 2008)

I snagged me (as he said) the first set direct from him at $49/ea ($490 for a 4 bay). Great guy but a self-proclamed horrible business man. He even etched "If found please contact…" on them for free and designed custom oar towers. All in all my frame cost just under what a DRE frame would have and weighed 3/4 a DRE.

You're pretty close on pricing McMasterCarr sells 6' lengths of the raw stock for $113.49 plus shipping. So you're looking at around $22.70 each just for material if ordered in quantity. He was selling them for just over cost and was able to do it cheap because they have their own manufacturing in house. Last I talked to ZtG he was looking at getting pricing from an outside milling for a 10,000 piece order. However, at the time they were in the middle of a new canning line for craft brewers that shoved raft fittings to the way back.

HPMG, do you have a model/drawings for the fittings you made? I could measure mine but they are not with me right now and would take some time. I know of some mfgs and look into getting some made for people.


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## slamkal (Apr 8, 2009)

I wouldnt price McMaster as a reference. They sell a lot of stuff to the ME's at my company who need stuff yesterday and pay quite the premium for stuff that is stocked and ready to ship. Look at a place like Alaska Copper and Brass it will be much closer to the price of raw aluminum

Those fittings were nice but realistically all you need is four if you design your inner rails to use the standard lopros. I think for the price of four you could probably have a shop weld you the basic frame outline for your boat


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## HPMG (Nov 2, 2008)

Look at "A different approach to building a double rail frame" thread for some pics/info of the original. I also put some pricing info in there somewhere, but would ultimately depend on the quantity ordered.

10,000 (Wowsa!!) would probably be quite reasonable....even more so if the "outside milling" is in china..:evil:


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## swimteam101 (Jul 1, 2008)

*Frame*



HPMG said:


> FWIW I designed these fittings, Zorba saw a picture I posted here on the buzz and copied them. I had intended to put some on the market, but couldn't think of making them for what he was initially selling them for ($37??) Even when he bumped the price, I doubt it was profitable.


Did you ever settle on a price that was profitable? Would you consider making a few more (10-20)? PM me ? Thanks for the response.


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## Flying_Spaghetti_Monster (Jun 3, 2010)

What is it for?


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## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

Draining your cooler


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## tmaggert (Aug 18, 2008)

*My Interpretation*



HPMG said:


> Look at "A different approach to building a double rail frame" thread for some pics/info of the original. I also put some pricing info in there somewhere, but would ultimately depend on the quantity ordered.
> 
> 10,000 (Wowsa!!) would probably be quite reasonable....even more so if the "outside milling" is in china..:evil:


Alright I've looked at the thread and what I remember about my fittings. Here is what I came up with. Any comments? What would you like to see? Since this is all via memory and what I could find on the interwebs for dimensioning its not near ready for milling but I might be able to submit it for pricing.

And these are for raft frames


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## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

The thing i remember wondering about those fittings is that it kind of looked like the bars would not all be at the same level. Meaning the bars that go over the end, vs the ones it sits on top of. The bar at the end of this fitting won't have decking on it, but The far fore/aft cross bars won't have these fittings, correct? If so you'll need to shim on top of those cross bars so the decking is level, sitting on top of these fittings at the rest of the cross bars. I suppose you could use these fittings everywhere buy i'd skip the weight in those outer corners of the frame.


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## tmaggert (Aug 18, 2008)

lhowemt said:


> The thing i remember wondering about those fittings is that it kind of looked like the bars would not all be at the same level. Meaning the bars that go over the end, vs the ones it sits on top of. The bar at the end of this fitting won't have decking on it, but The far fore/aft cross bars won't have these fittings, correct? If so you'll need to shim on top of those cross bars so the decking is level, sitting on top of these fittings at the rest of the cross bars. I suppose you could use these fittings everywhere buy i'd skip the weight in those outer corners of the frame.


I'm not exactly sure what you're asking because if I was trying to save weight I'd only have the double rail fittings on the ends. Only having 4 instead of 6 for a 4 bay frame.

The top of the cross rails are the same as the top of the fitting. The side rails and the cross rails are at different heights so you'll have height differences between the side piping and deck. The cross rails are about the pipe outside radius (0.83" or 1.66/2) above the side rails. Thus, if you are not using these fittings at each location then yes your deck will need shims to maintain a flush bearing.


However, I don't think the weight savings by only using the double fittings on the ends and low pros at the others along with shims would save weight. You can see an example of using the fittings at all locations here. The oar tower set up there is strange to me. That is why ZtG and I made some towers that were offset allowing for one whole plate or bleacher seating (as I used). You can kind of see this in my picture at Tequila Beach.

There could possibly be some modifications to limit this height difference. I would be slightly concerned about fitting deflection (flexing) on the ends negating the rigidity added by having a double rail. Whether this is a real concern would take some analysis and even if a double rail is really necessary added strength.


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## tmaggert (Aug 18, 2008)

Here's a shot of the connection.


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