# Dead tuber in westwater



## teletumbler (Jun 2, 2005)

Current Score:
World - 1
Tuber - 0

As a consolation prize the tuber received the ever sought after Darwin Award.


----------



## Phillips (Feb 19, 2004)

Show some respect dude. Really not that funny when someone dies. I mean yes probrably a stupid idea, but no need to disrespect with a lame attmept at humor. Imagine if it was your child, dad or brother. How would you feel if another buzzard posted the same thing. 

Kent


----------



## heliodorus04 (May 31, 2005)

I'm all for being sympathetic to loved ones when someone dies, and this is no exception.

But damn that was funny. It might not have been as funny if it wasn't the first reply in the thread.

There's no law that says we can't have a sense of humor about tragedy; I've been through some in my life. Gallows humor was something that helped me cope a great deal. 

We're still alive. We can laugh.
A prayer might not be a bad idea afterward, but we can laugh.

Helio


----------



## farp (Nov 4, 2003)

I laughed.


----------



## teletumbler (Jun 2, 2005)

Phillips said:


> Show some respect dude. Really not that funny when someone dies. I mean yes probrably a stupid idea, but no need to disrespect with a lame attmept at humor. Imagine if it was your child, dad or brother. How would you feel if another buzzard posted the same thing.
> 
> Kent


Sorry to have offended anyone. If it was my child, dad or brother yes I would be sad and I would miss them, but it wouldn't change that they were acting like a dumb ass. 

My condolences to those who loved him, may his memory and sense of adventure live on in you and may his death bring wisdom.


----------



## caverdan (Aug 27, 2004)

Here is a serious question..............what would you do if you saw this guy floating past your camp???? 

Would you give chase? Maybe run safety for him to see he made it out alive? Drink a beer in his honor as he floats off into the sunset?


----------



## gh (Oct 13, 2003)

Dude, why stop him? He's going to town!


----------



## basil (Nov 20, 2005)

I would think a tuber with a PFD and thermal gear would have a pretty good chance, especially at the current flow of 3500. The pool drop nature let's you catch your breath. It would probably be a better idea to be in the water and hold on to your tube with both arms than to ride it. But, perhaps Funnel Falls will separate you from your tube no mater what you do. 

As for what you would do if this dumb shit floats by your party, yea, you got to chase him or give him a ride in your raft. It really, really sucks, but you have no choice. Perhaps the rangers will take pitty on you and give you another permit.


----------



## El Flaco (Nov 5, 2003)

Wow. I feel bad for the guy, but I feel more sorry for the poor people that came across his body on their otherwise glorious raft trip. Can you imagine how terrible it would be to have to deal with a drowning, just because someone else made an incredible terrible & totally avoidable decision? 

I was there this past weekend and had a fantastic time, as usual. Our group took turns going through little D on Paco Pads (with PFDs, of course) and even though air temps were in the high 90's & water temps were in the mid-70's, you wouldn't want to be swimming for too long before you'd get to shivering just a bit. The level was around 4000, which meant that there were more rocks showing than usual. He probably drowned sometime Friday afternoon or Saturday, which means I passed right by him sometime over the weekend. It makes me a little sick, really - I've lost close friends to kayaking accidents, but I've fortunately never had to cope with a body recovery; nor do I ever want to. I can imagine coming through Skull & seeing this guy floating in the Room of Doom, and my ass jumping into the water to try to rescue him (not knowing how long he's been in the water). It's not hard to see how his stupidity could have put someone at real risk. 

The thing that irks me the most is that the article referred to this guy as a 'rafter'. I can't imagine that he put in at Loma and floated through the up-canyon winds for days. He must have launched from the WW Ranger Station, which means he ignored a ton of obvious signs & clues that his craft was not allowed and that permission is required to float this stretch. This is akin to cleaning your loaded guns while drunk. 

I remember a number of years ago there was a guy that jumped off a pickup and off a bridge in Evergreen into Bear Creek, and after telling his buddies to "meet him in Morrison". Just zero concept of respect for moving water.


----------



## De la Boot (Apr 21, 2004)

I know from first hand experience that someone with no thermal gear and just a PFD, helmet and only medium quality tube can make it all the way through Westwater with absolutely no problems, adn at 5,000cfs. Two people did this, one of whom had no prior water experience. Haven't read the article yet, but tubing Westwater, as long as you have a PFD, is really not that big of a deal.


----------



## caverdan (Aug 27, 2004)

Ahhh... but it says he had no PFD.........I'm afraid I would of had to given chase so as not to find his dead body later. 

It mentions that it was a commercial trip that encountered him. Being in that situation, with custies and all,...................I'm not sure how I would have made that call. Private boating.............I would have given chase just for the entertainment value alone. Maybe it would have made a difference........maybe not. I bet I could have talked him into at least putting on my spare life jacket after a rapid or two.


----------



## raftus (Jul 20, 2005)

Just a reminder for anybody who wants to diss on tubers - until you have cleanly run Black Rock, Big South, Lower Narrows and Gore you are not as good as the best tubers. That isn't to say that inexperienced idiots in tubes don't do really stupid things - they do. But the tube isn't anymore responsible than a kayak is (or any other craft) for the actions of the person using it.


----------



## yetigonecrazy (May 23, 2005)

gh said:


> Dude, why stop him? He's going to town!



ha ha yeah you dont stop a man on a mission.

but seriously, my heart goes out to this guys next of kin. this is a weird, weird situation, and i know its callous to say, but i am interested in following this story. im curious to see how this guy ended up there......morbid curiosity, i know, but this is such an unusual situation....


----------



## heliodorus04 (May 31, 2005)

gh said:


> Dude, why stop him? He's going to town!


Well, if he's already dead, he could become a strainer.
And draw bugs.

So yeah, I'd yank his carcass out of the river. Then drink a beer in honor of his "sense of adventure"


----------



## Phillips (Feb 19, 2004)

You dudes are too much. How many of you have really seen someone die? No matter how stupid, clueless, ignorant they may be; they at least deserve some respect. I just helped out with this 14 year old kid with a serious brain trauma due to a bike wreck. No helmet. . . just ridin his bike when BAM. He hit a tree. Made it in ICU for a few days then both his pupils blew (a sign that crainial nerve III and other parts of the brain are pretty much dead). His brain had swelled too much. Didn't make it through the night. The nurse, and fellow boater, had the pleasure to have to tell his parents who were in complete denial. 

Maybe I'm being waaaaaaaayyyyy to heavy and probrably get some good clackin out of ya'll, but so be it. The guy deserves some respect. How is his death any more unfair then that 14 year old kid?

think about it
Kent


----------



## Caspian (Oct 14, 2003)

Easy to die on Westy even at low water like this. Think of the pourovers that you go past when on the tongue. Anyone ignorant of that could get recirculated and it wouldn't take much to freak them out, ending their chances where a boater would be rational and calculated. There's at least one place where there is a big pourover backed up by another rock (Bowling Alley, I think). That would be bad for anyone. We avoid it and aim for the meat of the waves, but it is still there, and you can't see it from 8 inches off the water in a tube.


----------



## wcrocket (May 14, 2004)

*Dead Tuber in Westwater*

I was also in Westwater last weekend with my family and some friends. A Ranger came by and told us he was looking for this tuber. He told us the story about him being seen at Lower D Camp ground and that the Campers in that spot could not persuade him to get off of the river.

One of the guys that was in our group saw him earlier in the week with his tube above the Westwater Ranger station. So he did put in above Westwater. 

From my perspective, as a Kayaker playing my way down the river, the rapids were not that bad. The big holes were easy to miss and everything I choose to paddle into eventually flushed me out. So I really thought he made it through. I do believe he could have made it if he held on to that tube. 

There is something about someone that ignores all the rules and just goes for it that makes me want them to succeed. In a world where you have to have a permit to float down a river, camp at a designated spot, pack it in and pack it out, pass gear inspections, have rangers check your paperwork while floating down the river... etc.... I just like the idea that he might have pulled this off and cheated death. 

I wanted him to make it not just because losing a life is tragic but because it would demonstrate that sometimes you can get by without all the fancy gear.

I love Westwater. The Rangers do a great job there and I fully support all of the regulations that exist so that we can preserve the resource and paddle through safely. But it is nice to think that every now and then somebody might rebel.

My condolences to his family.


----------



## gh (Oct 13, 2003)

Jeez you guys are sucking the fun outa this. If I warn someone sternly that they are making a life altering mistake and make sure they are clear about the consequences then I let em go. I have tried playing traffic cop by the river and I am frankly tired of it. Explain that you are a whitewater expert, and yes you are compared to the general public, tell them there is a darn good chance they are going to die. If you see them in a rescue situation, you grab your rope/kit and do your duty. If I warn em and they keep going its none of my business. Good Luck, have fun.
Condolences to the family.


----------



## farp (Nov 4, 2003)

Phillips said:


> You dudes are too much. How many of you have really seen someone die? No matter how stupid, clueless, ignorant they may be; they at least deserve some respect. I just helped out with this 14 year old kid with a serious brain trauma due to a bike wreck. No helmet. . . just ridin his bike when BAM. He hit a tree. Made it in ICU for a few days then both his pupils blew (a sign that crainial nerve III and other parts of the brain are pretty much dead). His brain had swelled too much. Didn't make it through the night. The nurse, and fellow boater, had the pleasure to have to tell his parents who were in complete denial.
> 
> Maybe I'm being waaaaaaaayyyyy to heavy and probrably get some good clackin out of ya'll, but so be it. The guy deserves some respect. How is his death any more unfair then that 14 year old kid?
> 
> ...


Kent:
I agree with you that the tuber deserves respect. I would never joke about his death to his friends or family. They deserve better. On the other hand, one of the reasons it's not such a good idea to die in a self-perpetuated, mindless way is because people are going to make fun of you. That should be a lesson to everyone...especially those who have a propensity to say "Hold my beer, watch this."

I'm going to have to call you on the comparison between the tuber and the 14-year-old. A child riding a bike and dieing in a terrible accident is WAY different than an adult sneaking past the Westwater Ranger Station on a tube and without a PFD. 

I cannot think of an appropiate or tasteful way to make light of the 14-year-old's death. Frankly, I don't see anything funny about it whatsoever. 

But contrast that to the tuber who, under his own free will, used zero judgement, no research, and ample amounts of ignorance to bring about his ultimate demise. The two just don't compare. 

Add to that a forum where the active community has a deep, inherent respect for water's power, and you have yourself a perfect place for well-meaning people to shake their heads in disbelief...and joke about it. 

Kind of like the guy who told his buddy, "I bet you a six pack that you can't shoot this beer can off my head." We're not making fun of the fact that the person is dead. We're making fun of the manner in which he died, and the metal desolation that contributed to it.


----------



## cayo 2 (Apr 20, 2007)

ämple amounts of ignorance to bring about his ultimate demise" nice phrasing!!


----------



## Fuzzy (May 25, 2005)

Maybe he just wanted to see some Bears


----------



## yourrealdad (May 25, 2004)

My condolences to the family.

Tubers are living/dead proof that natural selection takes place.


----------



## Phillips (Feb 19, 2004)

I wasn't trying to compare or contrast the two. Just trying to give everyone some perspective about death.


----------



## Canada (Oct 24, 2006)

*Feed back*




Phillips said:


> I wasn't trying to compare or contrast the two. Just trying to give everyone some perspective about death.


 
Anyone who has boated for a period of years has a perspective on death. We have either seenfirst hand, or known someone who has passed. We have all had to reflect on whether it is worth it. 

The article says they approached and warned him. As a commercial trip they probably did everything they could. I agree with the prior postings that as a private boater, I might follow him down to pick up the carnage. The amazement and the jokes about the ignorance in this situation are expected. 

I do find the flames on the guide services and the like on a couple other threads alot more disturbing. The forums response has changed from a here is how someone died, and possibly these things could have prevented it, to alot of Monday morning quarterbacking by individuals whose knowledge and experience are probably alot less than the parties involved. The recomendations and discussiionbs about lawsuits on the recent threads are mindblowing. 

In this case, I'm surprised the accusations haven't boiled down to fat, out of shape, and improperly supervised while being of French and Texan decent. 

In the end, the guy made a really bad choice and is dead. He was warned, and went on, so it's hard to express anything but contempt at his lack of judgment.

It is no less or more tragic then when one of our friends experiences a foot entrapment in a class three rapid they've run eight times before and dies. The difference is the utter stupidity of the circumstances. 

 Save your perspective on death garbage for your female ultimate "friends".

Yeah, I'm in a bad mood today!

Ken

.


----------



## wayniac (Mar 31, 2007)

*on tubers and others*

Just read the SLC article to see if it actually might have been someone who knew what they were doing. It obviously wasn't. I'm most sorry for the next of kin. I ran Cross a few weeks ago at around 1K with a couple of boaters in a large four person swimming pool lounger- but they wore jackets and helmets. And yes it was a clean run and no they didn't put a hole in it. And then there the guy in the late 80's early 90's who used to float the Gorge on a plastic aligator routinely- but again with a jacket and a helmet. Come to think of it, I also saw a dive rescue person running the gorge using a boogie board at around 2K. Depending upon your abilities and experience you can probably run nearly anything with next to nothing. Case in point- I have a friend who has never successfully run Gore Falls. Always winds up on river left without a boat......


----------



## Phillips (Feb 19, 2004)

Canada said:


> Save your perspective on death garbage for your female ultimate "friends".
> 
> Yeah, I'm in a bad mood today!
> 
> ...


I really don't know what your implying. I don't have any female ultimate "friends". I think the tuber jokes at some point are a little old. I agree the guy obviously didn't have a clue. Suicidal maybe, drugs? We can only guess what drove him to do this. We will probrably never find out. I really have nothing more to say on this issue.


----------



## ric (Apr 12, 2004)

*dead guy on beach*

I heard they were looking for a body tuesday when we put in. Then some guy gave me a flyer about a missing woman from GJ. I thought about her all day,being a yaker and closer to water you can look around more then floating by in a raft.Got into the inner gorge and got to play on the waves ,thought how cool is this that I can come to release from the world for a few hours and feel total comfortable in the big drops,savorying all the play spots. Then feeling alittle spent, mentally preparing for the six miles paddle out,and there he was, dead guy on the beach ,all the senses take it in. Felt sorry for him. Heard they tried to talk him into spending the nite at L.D. but he tookoff any way.They thought he came all the way from loma?
I think he choose that end,to bad he made others go clean up after him.
despair will humans do strange things.I wonder who he was!
I hope they find her too.


----------



## WarriorOne (Jul 7, 2007)

*Water makes up for it*

Heya Rick,

I remember looking at the impression left in the sand where the fellow was found. I remember thinking... he drowned in this? I'm reminded that, yes, water can be brutally unforgiving and it is definitely sobering. 

I still enjoyed the best day on Westwater I've ever had and was glad to share it with you. 

Chris


----------

