# Beginner's blues



## Cphilli (Jun 10, 2010)

I took a long and deep swim a long time ago when I was just starting to really push myself. Once I was on shore and de-watering my boat an old timer asked me if I was ok. Before I could say a word he said,"wipe that booger out of your nose, I can't look at you seriously."

I guess what I'm trying to say is, shit happens. Pick up the pieces, go through your self evaluations, and learn from it. Eventually you will get more comfortable swimming in moving water or you will decide it is not for you.


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## kayaklifeislife (May 12, 2015)

Cphilli said:


> I took a long and deep swim a long time ago when I was just starting to really push myself. Once I was on shore and de-watering my boat an old timer asked me if I was ok. Before I could say a word he said,"wipe that booger out of your nose, I can't look at you seriously."
> 
> I guess what I'm trying to say is, shit happens. Pick up the pieces, go through your self evaluations, and learn from it. Eventually you will get more comfortable swimming in moving water or you will decide it is not for you.
> 
> ...


Thanks! That truly is good advice I know what you are saying though, swimming really is part of kayaking and I need to learn how to shake it off because I love kayaking!


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## xena13 (Mar 21, 2007)

Plus, you did the right thing by calling it a day after the 2nd swim. Lots of times 2nd swims are caused by the exhaustion and trauma of the 1st swim. The river will still be there for next time.


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## kayaklifeislife (May 12, 2015)

xena13 said:


> Plus, you did the right thing by calling it a day after the 2nd swim. Lots of times 2nd swims are caused by the exhaustion and trauma of the 1st swim. The river will still be there for next time.


Thanks and yep it sure will! I was lightheaded and disoriented and I was scared I might lose consciousness while kayaking which would not be a good thing!


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## soggy_tortillas (Jul 22, 2014)

Swimming builds character. I learn something every time I take a swim, either about myself or about the river and usually both. I've had back to back swims, less than five minutes apart... it sucks. But nothing feels better than getting back in your boat afterwards. 
Sometimes it's hard to remember, but just have fun; that's what it's all about. If you don't feel comfortable swimming through a particular section, don't boat it until you have your roll. If you need to take a step back to class 2, don't feel bad about it. Build your confidence on an easy section, work your way up to harder lines. 
In the meantime, work really hard on your brace. I don't have a roll, but I've also only swam 5 times because I have a super dependable brace. EJ's Bracing and Rolling is a good video.
Also, let your pussy, non-kayaking buddies know that if they ever wanna get out there and give it a shot, they're then welcome to laugh when you swim. Orrrrrr... try laughing with them.


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## Michael P (Mar 18, 2009)

We all swim no matter what our skill level so it is a very important skill. I would highly recommend a swiftwater rescue course, it will not only teach to be more comfortable swimming whitewater, when to breath, ( in the trough of the wave )
defence positions, too many details to cover here, it will also help you with self rescue and also make you an asset to your buddies when they swim.
If your not scared sometimes, your just stupid.


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## sross78 (Jul 22, 2012)

kayaklifeislife,
don't give it up now you will regret it. you are going to find people that think swimming is bad but it is a great skill to have, yes SKILL!

take some roll classes and then get out and do rolls rolls and more rolls until you are confident enough to really hit class 3-3+ water. i have swam so many times my first two seasons that i now i consider myself an expert swimmer. i never let go of my paddle and always try to self rescue all my gear unless the situation absolutely warrants letting the boat go down stream for my buddies to save. 

this season my mantra is no swims but i have had one swim thus far after my third lap down bridges (pouder river) in fairly high water. 

this time of year you have to respect the water levels and take on only what you feel you can swim safely not boat safely. trust me on this one!!! this is such a rewarding sport and you will get better and be glad you took some lumps early on.


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## kayaklifeislife (May 12, 2015)

soggy_tortillas said:


> Swimming builds character. I learn something every time I take a swim, either about myself or about the river and usually both. I've had back to back swims, less than five minutes apart... it sucks. But nothing feels better than getting back in your boat afterwards.
> Sometimes it's hard to remember, but just have fun; that's what it's all about. If you don't feel comfortable swimming through a particular section, don't boat it until you have your roll. If you need to take a step back to class 2, don't feel bad about it. Build your confidence on an easy section, work your way up to harder lines.
> In the meantime, work really hard on your brace. I don't have a roll, but I've also only swam 5 times because I have a super dependable brace. EJ's Bracing and Rolling is a good video.
> Also, let your pussy, non-kayaking buddies know that if they ever wanna get out there and give it a shot, they're then welcome to laugh when you swim. Orrrrrr... try laughing with them.


Sounds good! I'll check out that bracing video and work on my roll and you're right they don't know anything! They'd probably cry in a kayak!
Maybe I should take a step back this particular section I've ported before and after one successful run the day before I went in for the kill again and definitely did not have it down. Working on my roll and brace is probably what I need to get my confidence back.


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## kayaklifeislife (May 12, 2015)

Michael P said:


> We all swim no matter what our skill level so it is a very important skill. I would highly recommend a swiftwater rescue course, it will not only teach to be more comfortable swimming whitewater, when to breath, ( in the trough of the wave )
> defence positions, too many details to cover here, it will also help you with self rescue and also make you an asset to your buddies when they swim.
> If your not scared sometimes, your just stupid.


I had never thought about trying swiftwater but you're right that might really help!


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## kayaklifeislife (May 12, 2015)

sross78 said:


> kayaklifeislife,
> don't give it up now you will regret it. you are going to find people that think swimming is bad but it is a great skill to have, yes SKILL!
> 
> take some roll classes and then get out and do rolls rolls and more rolls until you are confident enough to really hit class 3-3+ water. i have swam so many times my first two seasons that i now i consider myself an expert swimmer. i never let go of my paddle and always try to self rescue all my gear unless the situation absolutely warrants letting the boat go down stream for my buddies to save.
> ...


Thanks! I really do need to get my roll because some day I wanna start creekin" and running waterfalls! It makes me feel better to know that a lot of other
people are part of the "swim team" I'll definitely get back up in my boat and know my skills and know when I am ready to run the rapids that WILL be waiting for me when I'm ready.


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## mcfarrel (Apr 1, 2006)

I hear drinking bootie-beers is the best way to recover from a nasty swim


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## racerx (Sep 25, 2007)

SWR class is a great way to get your mojo back. If you know you are going to swim, which everyone does, why not get comfy with it? Then when you get back to it, do it at your own pace.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

Kayaking is one of those things like riding a dirt bike, it takes a commitment to get "good enough", but it's very rewarding once you can do it.
Keep after it, you're not going to get good overnight.
It's not like jumping on a raft or an atv and just hitting the river or hitting the trail and being "OK" after a few outings. You need more commitment to master the smaller craft.


Remember, you're doing this for fun. Stop for the day when it's not fun.


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## jakoby (Dec 6, 2008)

Get back in the h2o ASAP the longer you wait the more the fear will build up. Do an easier section to build confidence like 32nd St. to 9 th St. bridge.


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## slickhorn (Dec 15, 2005)

the mental game of boating is all about staying in a fun and safe place between the two poles of blind confidence and abject terror. you don't have any basis for judgement til you encounter the mental space you are in now. 

before all you had was "wow this is fun, gimme MORE!!!" Now you can start the delicate balance between "whee MORE!" and "whimper... portage" 

you know, now, what confidence feels like when it isn't necessarily balanced by a healthy fear of consequences. As you regain confidence on runs you already know at flows you find comfortable, you'll re build your mental game. 

do so before stepping up again. 

but if you ever find yourself back at the "wow this is fun gimme MORE!!!" place without the little voice of fear you now hear, you will know you are setting yourself up for a beating. 

stick with it, you have the passion and a few good days will have you back on your game!


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## kayaklifeislife (May 12, 2015)

jakoby said:


> Get back in the h2o ASAP the longer you wait the more the fear will build up. Do an easier section to build confidence like 32nd St. to 9 th St. bridge.


Okay ! Good idea that's a good manageable section that I know fairly well!


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## kayaklifeislife (May 12, 2015)

slickhorn said:


> the mental game of boating is all about staying in a fun and safe place between the two poles of blind confidence and abject terror. you don't have any basis for judgement til you encounter the mental space you are in now.
> 
> before all you had was "wow this is fun, gimme MORE!!!" Now you can start the delicate balance between "whee MORE!" and "whimper... portage"
> 
> ...


Thanks I'll have figure out my freaking boundaries like actually having control will keep me in check. Maybe a step back into easier waters is what I need.


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## craven_morhead (Feb 20, 2007)

And oft repeated advice around here is to try and make your easy runs harder. Take more difficult lines, catch smaller eddies, but in an environment with lower consequences


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## bystander (Jul 3, 2014)

When ever I swim, the first thing I do is practice roll and figure out what went wrong that caused me to fail my roll. As long as I know what I did wrong, and how to go about rectifying the problem, I feel a lot more comfortable about getting back in the water.

EJ's sculling brace technique is great and I use it a lot (often to recover from a roll that is about to fail), but in all reality, if you can brace, you can roll. If you can't roll, you probably can't brace, since they are practically the same skill, just that the roll starts when you are completely under water.


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## gunnyriver (Sep 6, 2010)

Good for you to get back in the boat! That's the beauty of life... Sometimes we need to be shown how small we are, but we don't give up. Just remember, stay calm. If others can do it so can you! Find strength in knowing you're not alone. 

It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but  who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.  -T. Roosevelt


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## shannon s (Feb 20, 2015)

I really don't understand why people aren't telling you to dial in your roll. It always amazes me to hear people applaud the nerve and fortitude of beginners without a roll. Put the time in, get that roll bombproof. Yeah, it sucks to not run the "gnar" before you have a roll, but I guarantee you'll have a shit ton more fun knowing you can roll.


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## Paul (Oct 11, 2003)

I agree with Shannon. Work on your roll. Then, when your on side roll is 90% reliable or so, work on your offside roll. If you can roll on both sides, you'll start to feel which way will be easier in any given situation and your swimming events will diminish precipitously.


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## gunnyriver (Sep 6, 2010)

Perhaps some people need to work on reading comprehension. The point of the quote is to keep working. Don't give up, you will get better.


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## Paul (Oct 11, 2003)

It's a good quote, and I don't think I misunderstood it. Can't speak for Shannon. 

I think we were both just adding a bit of information that others had not.


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## shannon s (Feb 20, 2015)

I understood it too, but thanks for the advise gunny.


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## kayaklifeislife (May 12, 2015)

shannon s said:


> I really don't understand why people aren't telling you to dial in your roll. It always amazes me to hear people applaud the nerve and fortitude of beginners without a roll. Put the time in, get that roll bombproof. Yeah, it sucks to not run the "gnar" before you have a roll, but I guarantee you'll have a shit ton more fun knowing you can roll.


Shannon you're exactly right I NEED to bombproof my roll because when my brace doesn't work and I fall over and panic and pull my sprayskirt everytime! I can never get my setup!


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## kayaklifeislife (May 12, 2015)

gunnyriver said:


> Perhaps some people need to work on reading comprehension. The point of the quote is to keep working. Don't give up, you will get better.


I really like the quote and I found it inspiring.


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## soggy_tortillas (Jul 22, 2014)

Not trying to argue or contradict anyone, just trying to offer a different perspective. I just don't think the roll is the most critical thing for a beginner to learn. I don't have my roll, but I'll still run some shit and have a good time doing it. 

When I first started kayaking, rolling was the first thing that I attempted to learn.
What I found with this was that I was CONSTANTLY worried about flipping and not having a roll. I wasn't having fun because I was so worried about what would happen should I fail to roll. Oh my god, I'm going to have to swim!
Once I stopped concentrating on that and started focusing on the other aspects of kayaking, like learning how to stay upright, I had a lot more fun.
If I let all of you elitists discourage me for not having a roll, I wouldn't have had so many great days on the river.
*I agree that having a roll is important. But I'm not going to give up kayaking just because I don't have a solid roll.* Does that mean I'm limited to mostly class III until I do have a roll? Sure, but I'm ok with that. I still take the toughest lines that I can, and I stay upright. I can count my swims on one hand. 
But yeah... that's just like, my opinion, man.


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## kayaklifeislife (May 12, 2015)

soggy_tortillas said:


> Not trying to argue or contradict anyone, just trying to offer a different perspective. I just don't think the roll is the most critical thing for a beginner to learn. I don't have my roll, but I'll still run some shit and have a good time doing it.
> 
> When I first started kayaking, rolling was the first thing that I attempted to learn.
> What I found with this was that I was CONSTANTLY worried about flipping and not having a roll. I wasn't having fun because I was so worried about what would happen should I fail to roll. Oh my god, I'm going to have to swim!
> ...


I agree with the sides telling me to bombproof my roll and the sides saying I need to worry less about rolling and swimming and get the basics down first.
I wanna practice my rolling and bracing and be prepared to swim without complete fear. This summer as it warms up I am going to work on my aggressive swimming in the current.


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## jakoby (Dec 6, 2008)

You are in a great area to enhance your kaykaing skills. I lived in Durango in the mid 90s and the play park has com a long way since then. Plus the weather is warm if you do swim.


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## LSB (Mar 23, 2004)

kayaklifeislife said:


> I am wondering how do you (other experienced kayakers) trust your abilities and get back into your boat after a scary kayak experience? Any advice for an aspiring newbie?


I feel your blues.
I started kayaking in the late 80s and paddled hard through the early 2000s. Then kinda got away from it and into rafting when I had kids.
Last summer I got a sweet OC1 to paddle on my little class 3 home run and all of a sudden I'm a newb again. I cant hit a roll yet and I swim almost every time. Usually in the same spot. 
Ya just gotta love it enough to climb right back in every time and expect it to happen again.


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## peterholcombe (Mar 8, 2006)

craven_morhead said:


> And oft repeated advice around here is to try and make your easy runs harder. Take more difficult lines, catch smaller eddies, but in an environment with lower consequences



This is such good advice. Practice hard moves on easy water. 

Also playboating is the best roll practice. 


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## BrianP (Nov 13, 2011)

No one is saying you can't go paddling without a roll, but it should be a priority along with learning all the other skills like bracing. Regardless of all the shenanigans that surround swimming, you are a liability to yourself and those around you the more you swim.

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## JeremyH (Sep 12, 2011)

Playboat. In a safe place, like in a WW park. The holes are usually made to toss without sticking you. Even if you aren't using a playboat. It will force you to roll. It will force you to eddy. You'll learn to read the river better.

Any non-boater that laughs after a kayaker rolls, swims or otherwise. F-em. They don't know how hard this sport is.

Also, like all these nice folks have said, get back to it. Well rested, but walking the line of fear/fun.


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## Kentm (Feb 13, 2008)

Most of us swim once and awhile, so we don't have much practice. Then it is very alien to us when we find our self sans boat in swift water.


One thing you can do is practice swimming (with a friend in kayak with you. Pick a swift, but safe rapid and intentionally swim it. Spot an eddy half way down and try for it. When I swim, I keep my paddle. You can actually use it for your swim stroke instead of your hands. The blades are much bigger and give you power and speed you won't get with just your hands. In a swift water safety course I took, we practiced swimming so we could do it safely. Certainly there are places that will kick your butt, but having some practice helps immensely.


Last thought - I have been boating for awhile and slowed down for a bit. Then last year I started pushing it again and struggled getting back into harder rapids and rolling in the gnar. Having years of experience and then struggling is very frustrating. I just kept at it and the second half of the season turned out great. Keep at it and overcome your struggles and you will have a great time.


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## bystander (Jul 3, 2014)

soggy_tortillas said:


> Not trying to argue or contradict anyone, just trying to offer a different perspective. I just don't think the roll is the most critical thing for a beginner to learn. I don't have my roll, but I'll still run some shit and have a good time doing it.
> 
> When I first started kayaking, rolling was the first thing that I attempted to learn.
> What I found with this was that I was CONSTANTLY worried about flipping and not having a roll. I wasn't having fun because I was so worried about what would happen should I fail to roll. Oh my god, I'm going to have to swim!
> ...


I'd recommend an IK for those first starting out. You can learn to paddle and have fun without the worry of swimming. Getting something like an Air Force (XL) that handles more like a hardshell, or maybe even a sit on top hardshell.

Practice your roll as you can until you have it down, and then you can swap into a hardshell when you are ready. This is how I learned, and it worked out well. Though my roll was pretty bombproof within 4 runs, but I had a summer of IKing before I started learning to roll.


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## bloodhound (Oct 26, 2013)

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## kayaklifeislife (May 12, 2015)

bystander said:


> I'd recommend an IK for those first starting out. You can learn to paddle and have fun without the worry of swimming. Getting something like an Air Force (XL) that handles more like a hardshell, or maybe even a sit on top hardshell.
> 
> Practice your roll as you can until you have it down, and then you can swap into a hardshell when you are ready. This is how I learned, and it worked out well. Though my roll was pretty bombproof within 4 runs, but I had a summer of IKing before I started learning to roll.


What's an IK?


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## treemanji (Jan 23, 2011)

Inflatable Kayak aka Ducky.


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## pitty (May 3, 2011)

Did you drink your two booty beers when you swam? I find drinking booty beer in a timely fashion helps with river karma and has a direct effect on future River performance. 

Next step: learn a roll in a comfy swimming pool or warm pond. 

Then: take that roll to a deep eddy in the cold River. 

After that: start rolling in the current. Make yourself go upside down as much as you can in deep safe spots in current. Get dialed rolling in moving water. 

Then: go to the play hole with the intention of rolling in the hole. Get used to setting up and rolling in the turbulence of the hole. 

You have to know that your roll is strong. If you are working on any skill and your fear of failure is coupled with a fear of swimming you will develop some very defensive boating techniques and this will not bode well for your progression. Having that roll dialed will make everything else you work on a bit less scary and thus make practicing everything else more productive. 


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## soggy_tortillas (Jul 22, 2014)

bystander said:


> I'd recommend an IK for those first starting out. You can learn to paddle and have fun without the worry of swimming. Getting something like an Air Force (XL) that handles more like a hardshell, or maybe even a sit on top hardshell.
> 
> Practice your roll as you can until you have it down, and then you can swap into a hardshell when you are ready. This is how I learned, and it worked out well. Though my roll was pretty bombproof within 4 runs, but I had a summer of IKing before I started learning to roll.



Thanks for the suggestion. I'm pretty happy in my Burn though, and I am a solid paddler despite not having a solid roll. Like I said before... I do think rolling is super important, but I'm not going to let not having a solid roll discourage me from kayaking. I've done a little simple math here, just for the sake of discussion... Out of more than 100 days on the river I've swam 5 times. So, I swim less than 5% of the time I'm on the river. As a beginner, I'm ok with that.
Don't worry, guys, I'll work on my roll  but for feck's sake I'm not switching to a ducky.


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## brendodendo (Jul 18, 2004)

I don't kayak much anymore, spend most of my time in small to medium rafts. But, When I was learning to kayak, I spent my first 2 weeks in a pool leaning the C2C and back deck roll. I learned to brace and make basic paddle strokes to maneuver in the pool. One of the best things you can practice, is just getting comfortable in your boat while it is upside down. I found that by intentionally going under, counting to 10 and then trying a roll, I gained confidence in the water. When you transition to running class III and know that you are comfortable being in an upside down boat, you will be more confident to try to roll back up. Even if you don't get the roll on the first try, you will get a breath, relax under water and set up to try again. I always play boated in trunks and a dry top. If I swam, I knew I would be cold and so I did my best to get back up. Booty beers are a must, for confidence and appeasing the river god(s).


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## bystander (Jul 3, 2014)

soggy_tortillas said:


> Thanks for the suggestion. I'm pretty happy in my Burn though, and I am a solid paddler despite not having a solid roll. Like I said before... I do think rolling is super important, but I'm not going to let not having a solid roll discourage me from kayaking. I've done a little simple math here, just for the sake of discussion... Out of more than 100 days on the river I've swam 5 times. So, I swim less than 5% of the time I'm on the river. As a beginner, I'm ok with that.
> Don't worry, guys, I'll work on my roll  but for feck's sake I'm not switching to a ducky.


I was more suggesting you learn in an IK or sit on top so that you are not holding back on the water, not because you are swimming all the time. 

I've been paddling with a new kayaker for the last year on occasion, and because of his lack of roll, he would refuse to try several ferry lines and eddies in fear of flipping. This was holding back his ability to learn. This weekend, he has finally started to gain some confidence in his roll, so I was able to get him to try a few moves that he'd never attempt before and I saw a notable jump in his skill level.

If you are holding back because of your roll situation, it could be effecting all aspects of your paddling.


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## kayaklifeislife (May 12, 2015)

bystander said:


> I'd recommend an IK for those first starting out. You can learn to paddle and have fun without the worry of swimming. Getting something like an Air Force (XL) that handles more like a hardshell, or maybe even a sit on top hardshell.
> 
> Practice your roll as you can until you have it down, and then you can swap into a hardshell when you are ready. This is how I learned, and it worked out well. Though my roll was pretty bombproof within 4 runs, but I had a summer of IKing before I started learning to roll.


This is a good idea but duckies are so much different than a WW kayak you know? Swimming is not keeping me from kayaking I'm saying that was a rough swim and I need guidance on how to progress in this whole kayak game. I know swimming happens and isn't something you can forever avoid it's inevitable.


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## festivus (Apr 22, 2006)

i hated swimming so much that i would run entire rapids upside down when i was starting. 20 or so attempts later, the river would tire of watching me and my paddle would grab some moving water and throw me up. not really endorsing it as a style, think i broke my neck once practicing it. Anyway i finally improved so much that i went 20 years of 4 and 5 without swimming. i went one year without having to roll my brace got so good, then arthritis and common sense told me i was about to revert to swimming after reverting to running rapids in the inverted posture. needles to say, i spend my river days sitting high on my cat tubes now. still avoiding swimming at any cost.


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## mkashzg (Aug 9, 2006)

festivus said:


> i hated swimming so much that i would run entire rapids upside down when i was starting. 20 or so attempts later, the river would tire of watching me and my paddle would grab some moving water and throw me up. not really endorsing it as a style, think i broke my neck once practicing it. Anyway i finally improved so much that i went 20 years of 4 and 5 without swimming. i went one year without having to roll my brace got so good, then arthritis and common sense told me i was about to revert to swimming after reverting to running rapids in the inverted posture. needles to say, i spend my river days sitting high on my cat tubes now. still avoiding swimming at any cost.



Don't hurt your shoulder patting yourself on the back!!


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## soggy_tortillas (Jul 22, 2014)

I just don't see how switching to a ducky would help anything...
I bet I'd get my ass kicked in a ducky down the town run right now.
C hole would serve it to me on a silver platter.


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