# Be careful trading Colorado Pass



## lmyers

*shame on Vail*

That's too bad, I guess people will actually have to start paying for their passes...


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## inwith09

lmyers said:


> That's too bad, I guess people will actually have to start paying for their passes...


Vail has gone overboard.....a new montezuma lot design so it can be more easily policed, a gondola they didn't need again so they can now police the ganjula, where will the regime stop? more ability to police: thats what they need.


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## ZGjethro

Are you for real? The ski resort builds all these new amenities and you bitch about it? Well at least you cheap fucks did not pay for any of those improvements. You are just ticks who suck off those who do. I love the RF scanners since I do not have to dig my pass out or keep it accessible where it flaps in the wind, but I don't have anything to hide.


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## catfishjon

inwith09 said:


> Vail has gone overboard.....a new montezuma lot design so it can be more easily policed, a gondola they didn't need again so they can now police the ganjula, where will the regime stop? more ability to police: thats what they need.


the parking lot was redesigned to fit more cars in it so your lazy ass wouldnt have to park in the overflow lot. and the old gondola was a piece of shit ready to collapse at any minute. those cabins cost 50 G's a piece (hence the lift mechanics not wanting folks smoking in them. you can go smoke anywhere in the trees and no one will give a shit. quit bitching.


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## randomnature

And your picture comes up on the scanner if you have one. I certainly have issues with VR, but theft is theft. Integrity is integrity.


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## inwith09

randomnature said:


> And your picture comes up on the scanner if you have one. I certainly have issues with VR, but theft is theft. Integrity is integrity.


actually, I was told by KES that the Montezuma Lot Design was for ease of use for emergency vehicles...bogus...since when have you known vail resorts to be so concerned with public safety? And Jethro, I buy a super pass every year including this year, so don't feel special. But this year will be the last. I'll stick to Loveland and Abasin from here on out. Vail is a conglomerate resort holding company who only cares about the bottom line (not public safety or especially local folks). And pass prices did go up this year, Jethro, so you don't have to be bothered and reach in your pocket. And honestly, they really needed 50,000 dollar a piece cabs? Get a grip.


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## ZGjethro

Inwith09, I agree with you. Vail is the huge conglomerate you mentioned. But like any business, ultimately the bottom line is what they are after. They do offer one of the best pass deals going with the summit county resorts, so I have to defend them when I hear of people swapping passes and cheating the resorts. I don't ski Vail since I live in Aspen, where we do not have the luxury of the cheap Colorado pass. My pass cost another 100 bucks more again this year ($1300) with a local business discount and early season pricing, so I do cough it up. I appreciate any of the improvements a resort makes and that is why I pisses me off to hear of cheap (criminal) assholes whining about how to rip off the resorts. 
If the cabs cost 50g, thats Vail's problem. I'm sure they did a cost analysis and decided new cabins were a worthwhile investment. We got new cabins in Aspen two seasons ago and they are great! Roomier and easier to talk to people since passengers now face each other. And guess what, the Aspen Ski Co is the most despised employer in the valley and perhaps the largest business, not unlike Vail. Still, I am thankful for these improvements. New cabins are a huge cost which shrink the bottom line for a few years. They are an investment which makes for a more pleasant and safer ski experience. I don't know about parking issues since I walk to the slopes.


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## tboe101

I went to jail for deceptive use of ski facilities in the eighties. Judge Buck Allen doesn't take kindly to such behavior in his town. It's worth $579 to never have to stand in front of him and listen to his lecture.


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## inwith09

Yeah, Jethro, "cheap assholes" is easy to say while living in Aspen man.....


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## ZGjethro

Yeah, I threw that out there to see if you'd bite. I make the same wages as any tradesman but pay 3X the rent, double grocery costs, 1.5x gas costs and still buy my pass. Either one condones theft of services, or not. I think it is wrong and It pisses me off to have pass costs go up every year. Costs are passed onto the consumer just like if goods were shoplifted. My two cents.


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## Snowhere

I hate to break it to you, but A-basin is no pillar of independence. They are in Vail's back pocket much like a sub-corporate entity. Look into how the paid $4M, less then what the Durcom's sold A-basin for many years earlier. And less then what local business groups offered at $16M. A-basin does Vail's bidding, no surprise there.

Vail and Interwest are all about the hassle factor. End of story.


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## randomnature

*Entitlement*

COST OF LIVING.


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## ZGjethro

randomnature said:


> COST OF LIVING.


Randomnature, to whom is your posting directed? If it was me, I am perfectly happy to pay the costs of living in a ski resort because of the great lifestyle associated with it. I only mentioned the costs because it was implied that anyone living here is rich or a rich kid. I am neither, just a working electrician who lawfully buys his pass instead of skiing illegally on someone else's. If i've got your posting wrong, I apologize.


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## Demosthenes

I had a friend whose pass got taken when he lent it to another friend. The original friend just waited about a week and then reported it stolen. They gave him another pass and everything.


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## Jahve

The drug dealer in pulp fiction said it right.. Just to repeat.. 

Ok this pass is $399 and ok... But this mad man is $1300 and when you use it you will know where the extra money went.. 

Kinda like the aspen valley. It does cost more but when you are there you know where the extra coin went!!!  

Summit/vail is good for two things. Keepin the "rangers" in ck and giving the midwestern transplants some where to start their "mountain lifestyle".... 

I would not let a buddy use a $1300 aspen pass but if you want to take my copper or summit pass.. Fine I could care less..


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## Canada

I wish we had something as economical as the Colorado pass here in Utah. I was excited when the Vail was bidding for The Canyons, but no go. They may be "corporate", but if you want to ski at a resort, no doubt the vail resorts do it right.


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## Snowhere

The do it right if you like paying thru the nose for the privilage of parking and still walking 1/4 mile to get to the slopes. They do it right if you like 4 hour drive to the slopes in what used to take 1 hour, give or take. They do it right if you like the powder being gone in an hour or two, mid week. Personally, if the passes were still expensive, I would probally still live in Frisco. Now that I do not ski Summit or Eagle counties anymore, I can let the front rangers have them.


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## ENDOMADNESS

Snowhere..it takes you 4 hours to drive from Buenie to Vail? i guess you were referring to Front Rangers. That is their choice if they wanna sit in traffic, is it Vail's fault they all wanna ski there? 
And parking cost money almost everywhere...yeah it is overpriced, but just park in East or West Vail and take the free bus in.
Other resorts get skied out as fast as vail on a big powder day (Jackson, Alta, Snowbird)
Glad you are hating from afar.


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## Snowhere

Yea, I was referering to the front rangers. If I am going to spend money to ski oustside my local, I go south-west now. CB, Wolfcreek, Taos and Silverton are more bang for my buck nowadays. I do not really hate the area, just the managment of Vail & Interwest. 

It would be different if Vail hadn't taken out a full page add in the Summit Daily when they bought KAB saying how they were going to be great owners and still be a part of the comunity with Ski the Summit and other local groups. Then the following season they broke all their promises. I do not begrudge them, but if someone thinks they are the best thing since sliced bread, I just have to say something. We moved south just to get away from the front rangers and I try my best to avoid the area now.


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## ENDOMADNESS

I agree...not the best management group. But it is easy to overlook some negatives with the price of the Epic pass.


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## farmer

This is all quite funny. What defines bad management in your eyes? Did you guys know that Vail Resorts have nothing to do with Parking in Vail, its a town run thing. Theft of services cost the resorts thousands and thousands, directly increasing prices to everyone who didn't borrow a non-transferable pass. I really don't ski much at the VR resorts any more, more back country and the basin. This is not due to management or workers, more due to over crowding. That being said, these large masses enable summit/eagle locals to enjoy a relatively high income/cost of living for most mountain areas. I live the area but still find ways to make it seem alot farther from the masses than it seems.


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## ENDOMADNESS

Farmer, yeah i live in vail also (for last 12 years) and love the mountain and do plenty of work for Vail Resorts in my industry (land development).

I do not even believe that Vail or Beav are that crowded. 10 minute lift lines max on the weekends is NOT crowded (ski east coast), except Chair 5 which will be greatly improved in 2 seasons.

I have problem with the management of VR (ie- their chintzy pay scale, moving everyone but development to the front range, all the new loopholes to do business with them)

just my opinion...
i love the town and the hill...i'm trying to refute the standard "i hate vail...I70 truck stop"


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## Canada

I once saw an idea of a tunnel through all of the immediate vail valley. The pitch then was that hte realestate values would pay a multiple on the cost of the tunnel. If I lived there, I would be all over that. Take the interstate out of the picture and it is a pretty fantastic town.

It's pretty fantastic with the interstate.

The I hate vail thing has been going on as long as I've been aware as a skier in summit and Colorado. Early 80's. They do a great job moving people and laying down corderoy. The crowds drove me away, but still try to make it back once or twice a year.


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## ENDOMADNESS

The buried interstate was a brief topic 4 years ago (mostly from a European local's perspective). It would be incredible, but the CDOT/federal mentality would never allow something so "extreme". Leave it to the Europeans for cool stuff.
The real estate between the Right-of-Ways could easily pay for the cost.
Canada- i am also a Canucker...quebecois (of the english variety)


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## Canada

This was during the early 90's. I heard it from a vail city planner type that was in law school with me. The idea makes sense. Eventually it will happen.

Canada is my name, not my origin.


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## vardaddy

farmer said:


> This is all quite funny. What defines bad management in your eyes? Did you guys know that Vail Resorts have nothing to do with Parking in Vail, its a town run thing. Theft of services cost the resorts thousands and thousands, directly increasing prices to everyone who didn't borrow a non-transferable pass. I really don't ski much at the VR resorts any more, more back country and the basin. This is not due to management or workers, more due to over crowding. That being said, these large masses enable summit/eagle locals to enjoy a relatively high income/cost of living for most mountain areas. I live the area but still find ways to make it seem alot farther from the masses than it seems.


 How do theft of services really cost the resort anything? Sure you can argue they lose out on selling a $98 dollar lift ticket but nothing was actually taken from the resort that needs to be replaced. Those chairs are going to run regardless of how many people are there. In fact the resort really has no clue they lost anything unless they catch the person. Pass prices are not going up because a few people sneak on to the mountains. Pass prices are going up to pay for other upgrades and I'm fine with that. Vail and other places may claim their passes went up because of people sneaking on the resort but they are just blowing smoke up your arse and you are falling for it.


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## tboe101

I like listening to all you frontrangia bitch about how awful Vail is because it's Vail and it's expensive. No one is holding a gun to your head and making you ski or ride here. I'd prefer that you stay out of my town and save the powder for people who deserve it--go ski Eldora and act cool with your Starbucks there. While Vail and Aspen do have a high cost of living you get what you pay for. Free busses, good people, good paddling, good hiking, good mountain biking. It's safe for your mom or girlfriend or daughter to walk the streets at night alone without fear of rape or mugging. Yes it is expensive but I can shred powder and then go paddle five minutes later without sitting in traffic by the tunnel. I can board and pull twenty inch trout out of the creek one minute later. Life is a series of trade offs.


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## El quapo

tboe101 said:


> I like listening to all you frontrangia bitch about how awful Vail is because it's Vail and it's expensive. No one is holding a gun to your head and making you ski or ride here. I'd prefer that you stay out of my town and save the powder for people who deserve it--go ski Eldora and act cool with your Starbucks there. While Vail and Aspen do have a high cost of living you get what you pay for. Free busses, good people, good paddling, good hiking, good mountain biking. It's safe for your mom or girlfriend or daughter to walk the streets at night alone without fear of rape or mugging. Yes it is expensive but I can shred powder and then go paddle five minutes later without sitting in traffic by the tunnel. I can board and pull twenty inch trout out of the creek one minute later. Life is a series of trade offs.


So you associate Eldora with the starbucks mentality....yet you live in Vail? Douche.


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## JDHOG72

*Free Flights*



vardaddy said:


> How do theft of services really cost the resort anything?
> 
> With this line of thinking we should all be able to get on planes and buses for free. They are going to the destination anyway. Should also be able to go Cat skiing or or use the service of any type of guide for free. They were probably going to be doing the activity anyway. I love it and am going to start putting it in to practice. I will have the airlines contact you if I have any problems.
> 
> PS: Remember Vail is bad I would recommend everyone stay away so you dont get infected with bad juju


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## jasonatthebasin

And there is incentive for the liftie too. About 7 or 8 seasons ago I was a lift lead at a resort here. I won't say which one, but I'm sure they all do it. The company gave lifties 50 bucks for finding people using passes that were not theirs. And depending on the attitude of the person caught, it was then decided whether or not to call the sheriff. Never liked enforcing, usually would have person offer "green pass" to liftie, but if they wanted their reward, I had to. So be aware...it is theft of services.


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## tboe101

Thought I'd stir the pot with a good Starbucks comment and you bit it hook, line, and sinker.


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## tboe101

Oh yeah, douche is a mighty big word for a twelve year old.


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## El Flaco

tboe101 said:


> Oh yeah, douche is a mighty big word for a twelve year old.



Reminds me of a tasteless joke I heard:


"So my girlfriend comes up to me, all pissed off, and says 'I've been hearing all over town that you're a _Pedophile_!'




So I say to her. 'My, that's a big word for a twelve year old.'"

Just thought I'd share.:mrgreen:


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## jen84

I love these buzz rants they keep me (an unfortunate front ranger entertained).... The parking at Vail does suck (you can't even bribe anyone), A-Basin totally rides Vail's coattails but it has a fun vibe so all is well. Traffic blows, sat in it for 2 hours today, but had a great time skiing (although the mountains could use some snow).... Shouldn't we all just be stoked we live in Colorado and get to go skiing rather than sitting around eating and getting huge like people in Missouri (or Texas). 
Anyways.... Steamboat is where its at!


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## Snowhere

Good luck keeping the sheeple away. Unfortunately for you, VA goes to great pain in trying to keep Vail around #1 in skier visits. There will always be those that crave their concrete jungle, next to the interstate, in the mountains. Is it a bad place to live? Not if you like the convince of a city, but want to live in the mountains. If it is your paradise, enjoy it and you should care less what anybody else thinks. Personally I am only too happy that the bulk of the front range wants to use Summit and Eagle counties as their playgrounds. That keeps them away from southern Colorado, for the most part.


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## tboe101

El Flaco said:


> Reminds me of a tasteless joke I heard:
> 
> 
> "So my girlfriend comes up to me, all pissed off, and says 'I've been hearing all over town that you're a _Pedophile_!'
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I say to her. 'My, that's a big word for a twelve year old.'"
> 
> Just thought I'd share.:mrgreen:


That was the reference. You win a Schlitz and a turkey leg.


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## vardaddy

JDHOG72 said:


> vardaddy said:
> 
> 
> 
> How do theft of services really cost the resort anything?
> 
> With this line of thinking we should all be able to get on planes and buses for free. They are going to the destination anyway. Should also be able to go Cat skiing or or use the service of any type of guide for free. They were probably going to be doing the activity anyway. I love it and am going to start putting it in to practice. I will have the airlines contact you if I have any problems.
> 
> PS: Remember Vail is bad I would recommend everyone stay away so you dont get infected with bad juju
> 
> 
> 
> If you can manage to get on for free at all those other places you have listed more power to you. The difference is on the chairlifts that is good possibility, the rest of the places you named good luck.
> I just have a problem with the logic that has been stated about people with passes claiming they are paying for the theft of services. That is total B.S. Prices on passes are not rising because of these theft of services.
> 
> I have my own pass so I'm an upstanding citizen. I just have a problem with people acting like they are getting screwed for people that choose to borrow someone elses pass. Like always in life their are sometimes cosequences for your actions. If people are able to accept the risks and get away with it then it doesn't bother me. It is not hurting me any.
Click to expand...


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## lmyers

quote=JDHOG72;124672]
I have my own pass so I'm an upstanding citizen. I just have a problem with people acting like they are getting screwed for people that choose to borrow someone elses pass. Like always in life their are sometimes cosequences for your actions. If people are able to accept the risks and get away with it then it doesn't bother me. It is not hurting me any.[/quote]

You hit the nail on the head with that one Vardaddy, as long as they aren't postholing the skin track that is


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## randomnature

It's still theft. Obama referred to “our collective failure to make hard choices” today and this is a perfect example. There is no free lunch and if you think that it does not hurt anybody, its BS hippie logic. It adds up. It also escalates. Eventually, you are some dude named Bernie stealing billions. Perhaps the hard choice is calling out your bro? If you can't afford a pass, get a minimal part time job with the mountain and it's free. If you don't have the time or inclination, then hike.


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## basil

Aw, give the ski bums a break. I bet they know they are stealing despite their lame justification. I bet many of them don't make much money and getting a free day is the only way they can enjoy expensive Vail. I doubt they do it much. Let them have 1-2 days a year to enjoy Vail. 

Doesn't Vail have some cheap days at the end of the season?


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## Randaddy

ZGjethro said:


> I am perfectly happy to pay the costs of living in a ski resort because of the great lifestyle associated with it.


Gasoline: $5 a gallon.

Milk: $6 a gallon.

Season pass: $1300

Living happily in fur chaps as an angry bisexual Aspen electrician: Priceless.


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## ZGjethro

Fortunately gas has come down a bit. Milk is still expensive. Season pass is a steal for such a great town and ski options. Love my assless chaps and am happily engaged. She loves them too! Explaining it to a homophobic ass, priceless!


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## Randaddy

I'm not homophobic. I'm glad you found a place where you can wear fur and have steamy hot man love. 

That's why they call it Ass-pen.


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## ZGjethro

Randaddy said:


> I'm not homophobic. I'm glad you found a place where you can wear fur and have steamy hot man love.
> 
> That's why they call it Ass-pen.


They are not furry. Do you want to see my most recent set?[URL=http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d125/jebbush101/chapsman02.jpg


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## brooks8970

vardaddy said:


> I just have a problem with the logic that has been stated about people with passes claiming they are paying for the theft of services. That is total B.S. Prices on passes are not rising because of these theft of services.


I respectfully disagree. First of all, the energy requirements for chairlifts increase with the number of people riding on them. Secondly, if Vail or any ski area purchases new technology or pays employees extra money in order to catch thieves, then the burden gets passed onto the consumer.


I really dont care what you do though. Im not a season pass holder anyway, but I do buy day passes on occasion. If the risk of getting arrested and charged is worth trying to ride for free, more power to you. Its not worth it to me anymore. When it was, I think the thrill of ripping off the resort had a lot more to do with it then the money ever did.


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## Canada

As I've aged I've come around to theft is theft. If a guy will steal from someone else, he'll be willing to morally justify it, and it's escalation.

Be glad you have the cheapest passes around. I pay three times as much and have one mountain as an option. As stated before, I wish Vail bought the Canyons. They know how to run a resort as well as anyone out there. 

I didn't steal the kayak. I found it on the bank and posted a lost notice at the store and was only going to use it until they called to pick it up!. Repeat same with paddle, vest ect and we all would wnat to beat the person down.


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## Theophilus

randomnature said:


> It's still theft. Obama referred to “our collective failure to make hard choices” today and this is a perfect example. There is no free lunch and if you think that it does not hurt anybody, its BS hippie logic. It adds up. It also escalates. Eventually, you are some dude named Bernie stealing billions. Perhaps the hard choice is calling out your bro? If you can't afford a pass, get a minimal part time job with the mountain and it's free. If you don't have the time or inclination, then hike.


Quoted for truth. Great post.


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## DurangoSteve

Back in the late '70s and early '80s I worked in a coupla different ski shops in Vail. When a lift ticket holder would come in with a repair job midday, we would ask if we could have their lift ticket "for a friend." We would then slide the ticket down the wire a bit, clip the wire... and turn around and sell the "slightly used" ticket to a willing, broke fellow dirtbag. Of course, we were all couch-surfing dipshits who felt like we were "getting over on the man." We didn't think about it being theft or fraud. We just enjoyed having VA buy our beers that night!


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## mjpowhound

I did something similar a couple times last year. Someone would have a day left on a multi-day pass and give it to me. I would sell it but donate the proceeds to the Routt County Humane Society.

Also, though I'm five years out of school, I still use my ID to get student prices at the movies (and very occasionally a free drink at Chipotle). But I never pull the old two movies with one ticket deal.

How does Mountainbuzz feel about these types of theft of services?


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## SSOWDEN

48 hours playing hoops with the illegals from south of the border in eagle huh?



tboe101 said:


> I went to jail for deceptive use of ski facilities in the eighties. Judge Buck Allen doesn't take kindly to such behavior in his town. It's worth $579 to never have to stand in front of him and listen to his lecture.


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## lhowemt

*Ultimate pass theft story*

I was going to school in Bozeman, and my cousin stopped by on his way through a winter-long ski tour of the west. This was almost 20 years ago, when they had those weird ski cards you could buy to get discounts at ski areas, they were brand new then. So he came up to Bridger with me and went to buy a day ticket. He came back, said they gave him a free one, and he could get up to 50 free! They thought it was some olympic card or something, a VIP thing. Well, he pulled it off for ONLY 47 tickets, what a great freaking winter. He slept in his van in our driveway for almost 3 months. Absolutely unbelievable. They finally realized their error, and didn't hassle him. Not theft of services if they hand you a pass because they are dopes!


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## ZGjethro

vardaddy said:


> How do theft of services really cost the resort anything? Sure you can argue they lose out on selling a $98 dollar lift ticket but nothing was actually taken from the resort that needs to be replaced. Those chairs are going to run regardless of how many people are there. In fact the resort really has no clue they lost anything unless they catch the person. Pass prices are not going up because a few people sneak on to the mountains. Pass prices are going up to pay for other upgrades and I'm fine with that. Vail and other places may claim their passes went up because of people sneaking on the resort but they are just blowing smoke up your arse and you are falling for it.


SkiCo mulls raising fine as pass frauds rise
by Andrew Travers, Aspen Daily News Staff Writer
Friday, January 23, 2009

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As of this week, 80 skiers and snowboarders have been caught using mountain passes fraudulently in local ski areas. Aspen Skiing Co. Senior Vice President David Perry said it was a sharp increase from last year, and that the company will decide next week whether or not to raise their fine for pass fraud.

Currently the company charges pass scammers $196 (that’s a $100 fine plus the price of a day’s lift ticket). The second time skiers get caught they can be banned for life.

“Because we are seeing this increase in incidents we are strongly considering raising the fee,” Perry said.

The company does not normally turn over pass fraud cases to police, except in extreme situations like one recently when a man attempted to use a pass that was not his three separate times in one day in Snowmass.

Perry credits the rise in perps caught to the new scanning technology implemented on the mountains this year, which give the company the person’s profile and can wirelessly send a photo to lifties with hand-held scanners.


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## basil

I just learned that the lift line scanners get $70 for each bad pass that they catch. Wow, that's motivation.


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## caspermike

sounds like a good job. my friends would have to give me buds inorder to get on the lift otherwise. zap get out of line sucker.


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