# The Black Eagle mini dory (was baby Briggs build)



## class 3 felon (May 14, 2008)

Looks cool, can't wait to watch it progress


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

Hope to bring it to the COWBF this fall!


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## gnoble1 (Jul 31, 2018)

Excited for this one! Can you explain again why you decided on 36" bottom vs 48"? Also, what thickness of wood for sides and bottom? 
Cheers, 
Greg


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

Excellent question! I probably wouldn't have gone so narrow if I hadn't already felt it.
I want secondary stability more than initial stability, so I want more flare in the sides (secondary) than a wide floor (initial).

A wide floor tries to stay flat to the water's surface. Works GREAT when you're on flat water, but on the face of a wave, the entire boat tilts to match the face (or shoulder) of the wave. With flare, there's some happy medium. It feels slightly more "tippy" on flat water, but doesn't feel any more "tippy" in rough water, and with some "body English" you can highside and keep the boat a bit more upright.

And flared sides are a drier ride in confused waves. A vertical side (wide floors, Mckenzie drifters) will get "slapped" by a wave and the wave will splash in. Flare deflects the wave away and also deflects the boat up and over.









The Lil' Bastard has a 38" floor, similar length and width, and is reasonably stable! 

And my big 17' GC dory has a 48" floor. I don't need that much width on a smaller boat. Both floor and oarlock width are scaled down 75% from the big boat.
Since I'll be primarily sitting and rowing whitewater and not standing and fishing, I don't want the initial.



1/4" floor, sides, and decks. Thinner than normal on the floor, but a weight-saving measure. Trying to keep it light enough to be loaded by one person into the back of a pickup.


Everything is a design compromise. Thanks again, good questions!


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## Infidien (May 27, 2013)

Have you considered a layer of kevlar for that thin floor?


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

Will get 2 layers 1208 biax inside and out.
Not specifically opposed to Kevlar, but it's tenacious enough that it's difficult to sand or cut cleanly when repairing.

Can't really have strong-light-inexpensive, so I went repairable instead of heavy.


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## BGillespie (Jul 15, 2018)

How "long" is the scarf? Any more pics of the cutting jig?


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## raymo (Aug 10, 2008)

I would of loved to have one of those! Can't wait to see it finish. I envy people with building skills like you and others on MB.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

BGillespie said:


> How "long" is the scarf? Any more pics of the cutting jig?


2” in 1/4” ply, so 8:1


the scary jig:


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## Spintowin (May 23, 2018)

BITCHIN!


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

Day 3:
Sanding to show the grain, final cutting and fairing panels, glassing the inside faces.

The stain covered the grain a bit too much. Some quick work with 120 grit exposed the grain on the harder summer grain, the softer summer grain took the stain deeper and stayed gray.









Did a little creative sanding to get the grain to line up between the different panels









Planing the rolling bevel on the bowpost. 76° included angle at the base, 108° included angle at the top.









76° angle at the base









108° at the top where the panels flare out


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

The chine (bottom) of the side panels has a flat spot 









Planed out for a "fair" curve. Boats don't need to be straight, they need to be fair. A fair line is pleasing to the eye. No measurement tools were harmed or even touched in this step. haha 









Top (sheer) cut out. 









The sheer faired









Glass on the inside faces. Had some delamination in one spot, so it got the "ceiling press".









You may have noticed that I'm just using common exterior grade 1/4" AC douglas fir plywood. The glue is the same, and it's made in the same Roseburg, Oregon factory. The A face is the same quality as marine ply. The core isn't bad. The inside C face has the knots you can see...but everything visible on the inside will be painted.

With fiberglass inside and out, the wood has less need for strength, and it's actually more of a core material. If I were building a plank on frame boat, AA or AB or BS1088 Marine ply would be a MUST. If this were a customer boat and not my play boat, I'd also be using marine ply. And...it was available locally, the boat is a prototype, and not a Steinway piano...let's go boatin'! 

I'm really shooting to get this in the water by about April to feel how it does in the water, and decide if the design is good or if it's back to Cardboard Aided Design!


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## gnoble1 (Jul 31, 2018)

Thanks for the detailed posts. Curious about the rolling bevel on the bowpost. Have built a two-transom buffalo boat as my first build but want the next one to more "traditional", with a bowpost. 

What's the best resource you've found on the rolling bevel and is it just specific to the briggs? Was trying to research it in Roger's book but couldnt find a whole lot.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

Great question.
Really depends on your boat design.

Yes, the "cheeky" sheerline on the Briggs boats needs more than 90° included--so more than 45° on each side.








This is 54° on each side (or 90-54 = 36° angle cut when standing up on the table saw since you can't cut 54° on a table saw)


And the floor is a bit under 74°









So the rolling bevel is how you get between the two.

By cutting the whole thing at 54° on both sides and then paring down the back to (76°/2) = 38° we can keep the front face the same width..which will help for later gluing on the outer stem. 
If I had cut it all at the narrower angle, the top front would get narrower when cutting in the flat angle. It seems like voodoo, and is easier done than said!


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

Here's another sketch of the angle you'd cut. Note the front face stays equal width, and the back face gets narrow.
If you visualize the dashed line as what you will cut to, you can visualize that angled face rolling from one angle to the other..hence the rolling bevel.


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## Pinner62 (Jun 25, 2013)

Excellent post and effort. Look forward to seeing it complete and on the water. If I ever complete my full-size Briggs ( currently 75%) I should make one of these to run side by side with my Sportyak II.
Great work
Cheers


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

Got pics of your project, @Pinner62 ?

Stitch and glue or ply on frame?


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## Pinner62 (Jun 25, 2013)

MT4Runner said:


> Got pics of your project, @Pinner62 ?
> 
> Stitch and glue or ply on frame?


Framed. I was at Brad Dimmock's workshop in Flag in February'18. It originally went to another participant. He wasn't able to finish it so I picked it up from him in Prescott. I've had it a year. I'll post some pics tomorrow. Looking forward to the sound of waves on the gunnels!


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

Was that the one @MNichols was at?
Pat Clark's South Fork is the class boat from the 2017 class, IIRC. I'd have liked to take the class, but he was no longer doing them in late 2018, you must have broken the mold!

Post up a build thread, would love to follow along.


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## BGillespie (Jul 15, 2018)

MT4Runner said:


> I'd have liked to take the class, but he was no longer doing them in late 2018


Same, Flag is way easier logistically than Maine.


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## Gremlin (Jun 24, 2010)

I think we need a dory boat forum. Good stuff and I look forward to more! I didn’t understand the appeal until I marveled at them on the Grand. I’m a long ways away from a build of my own but love the open sharing of information and the intelligent discussion. And, the innovation!


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## Gremlin (Jun 24, 2010)

And peel the fat end of your carrots first!


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## Electric-Mayhem (Jan 19, 2004)

Gremlin said:


> I think we need a dory boat forum. Good stuff and I look forward to more! I didn’t understand the appeal until I marveled at them on the Grand. I’m a long ways away from a build of my own but love the open sharing of information and the intelligent discussion. And, the innovation!


Do you mean a seperate Dory forum...or a page on MtnBuzz? If you meant the latter...then you are on that page. If the former, then there are definitely a few forums out there and a facebook group. The forums seem fairly lightly trafficked... so I think having a Whitewater Dories section of MtnBuzz is probably enough.

Having recently become a Dory owner... I was definitely on the fence about how much I wanted to deal with the fun level to fix it level but I completely got it the second I put the boat on the water for the first time. I bought a well used Aluminum boated named Wesley that was built in the late 90's and spent most of its life in the AZRA commercial fleet so I'm hardly the first to row it... but it has been a pretty special experience so far. I never want to row another large craft down the Grand again. You really feel the connection with the river and the ride of a Dory is completely different to inflatables. They are so much more reactive to the water and make even small rapids fun. They are basically like a huge drybox too...so its pretty neat to have gear in a "mostly dry" container.

Really looking forward to seeing this little boat come together... I want one myself now. I just started another thread talking about new and innovative ways to build a Dory...might have to start a build soon.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

Gremlin said:


> I think we need a dory boat forum. Good stuff and I look forward to more!


I begged the powers that be for a dory subforum with the new software


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

Got the panels connected. Feeling like it’s a bit too deep.


the big Briggs has 29”tall sides at the oarlocks. The Lil Bastard is 19” and IMHO a tad shallow.

sitting at sides.








May trim to ~22.5”.
Open to discussion!


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## Electric-Mayhem (Jan 19, 2004)

Looking good so far... looks like a boat already!

Is it at its 5 foot width in those pics? Maybe try to flare it out a bit more and see how you like it before cutting? If you do trim it...are you thinking an even 1.5" all the way or try to keep the transom and stem the same heights?

I'd love to see a picture from the top looking down and a one from the front too.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

More flare:


















from the bow—I definitely need to spread the bow out more


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

I appreciate the feedback


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

This is a difficult perspective, I’m too close to the boat, but this is very similar to my big boat from a similar distance.


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## Electric-Mayhem (Jan 19, 2004)

Do you like it more or less with the extra flare? I think I agree with you about the extra width in the front...seems like a lot of the boats are going with lot more "cheek" up front then is traditional. Not having done much with the sides I'm not sure what it takes to add width in different places.

Haha...have you set something inside it to see how it fits you yet?


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

Definitely like it more with the extra flare. I thought I had calculated it correctly to hit 60" wide (to fit in the bed of the pickup) and be the same width as the big boat, but it was too vertical-sided. It's now sprad to the angle as the big boat. Will definitely have to trim the middle or the entire side to keep it at 60" with more flare.

Everything moves. With a given panel shape, more flare also adds more rocker. If you spread the cheeks more, it adds a bit more bow rocker. This is at 7-8" of rocker bow and stern.
You can push/pull anything an inch or two and keep things fair. If you shove it more than that, you end up with a "hard spot" and will have a funny outward bump in your sheerline.

I don't know if "cheeky" is traditional or not in all Rogue boats. Definitely a GC dory thing, as McKenzie boats tend to have a smoother curve in plan view. Another point in the "everything moves" view: if you see an up-raked Scimitar curve to the bow, there's either a concave cut in the sheer line, or it's cheeky!

Interesting condition here. I put the ratchet strap on the top line to pull the sides out and help the rocker in the floor. Transom epoxy was not yet cured, so the top 1/3 popped the screws and then glued itself inboard about 1/2".









I'll just run a saw down the joint, cut the epoxy and straighten it out after the floor is glassed and the rocker set.
Interesting that I used to try to hide my mistakes, now I can recognize them more quickly and will fix them so I'm not continually compensating for them later.

And you're going to make mistakes building boats. It's OK!


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

Cedarstrip bulkheads with scraps from the canoe project.

The side hatch bulkheads will need to be all or mostly plywood since they'll get the force from the footbrace...but the main athwartships bulkheads will only support the vertical loads of the decks and keep water out. Plywood or cedar, I'll glass both faces anyway. This will save about 6 lbs and use up some extra material at the same time. I'm not "drilling holes in my toothbrush" to save ounces, but if I can save pounds, it's worth it to make a boat that is easily loaded in the back of a pickup.


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## Marty Schlein (Jun 9, 2015)

Hello MTN4 What is the length of the sheer line panel on this build? and did you use the traditional bow and stern angle of a Briggs, and I noticed you had scarfed a piece to your floor panel does it end up longer than an 8’ sheet, looking pretty fine overall you might check your seat to oarlock height before you change any thing as that is a critical thing to consider. Thanks


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

Hey Marty! Sheer is 11'-10": a full plywood length plus a half plywood length minus a 2" scarf joint. The floor needed the scarf to match the side length.

Yep, traditional Briggs bow and transom, as well as side flare angles. I love the way Great Falls feels in the water, but she's too big for smaller rivers and lower flows. She also takes 2-3 people to load/unload and is really bigger than necessary for one person on day trips and overnights. So I want a similar-feeling but smaller boat.

Seat (flat deck) to top of gunnel will be about 3", same as my other two dories. Will then have an oarlock stanchion that raises the lock about 1" above the gunnels--similar to this detail on the big boat.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

(yesterday's pics were Day 4 Sat 11/2 and Day 5 Sun 11/3)

Day 6: floor glass. Cut the glass to fit
This is 51" wide glass. The floor is 36" wide. I first cut the glass about 43" wide so it will lap up 3" on each side. That left an 8" wide strip. That was cut in half to make the tape that went over the fillets. it's pretty hard to cut plain weave cloth into tape, but is REALLY easy to cut biax parallel to the stitching into tape, and biaxial is already...biaxial...so it forms really well into corners. I use all my biax scraps to make tape to glass in my bulkheads, too.










Folded it over and kept it in alignment to then apply thicker fillets









Fillets are a mixture of flour, epoxy, and chopped fiberglass. Add the chopped glass first so the epoxy saturates it, then add flour to thicken. Previous fillets were "peanut butter" consistency, these are more like "thick milkshake" consistency so there's some loose epoxy to bond to the glass fillets.









Cut biax tape to cover the fillets, wet it all out. 
Wet out the glass with epoxy and a squeegee. The initial coat takes roughly the same weight by volume of epoxy as the glass to be wet out. 







In this case, 20oz/sq yard glass x 3 yards = 60 oz. of glass. I used about 60oz of epoxy (and 8oz more for the fillets)


A cube heater—on stilts do it doesn’t stick in the epoxy—provided overnight heat to cure the goo.


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## jquinn (Aug 23, 2004)

@MT4Runner love this post and thanks for sharing! I check this thread every morning....no pressure! Building my first set of oars this winter and thinking about something like this as next winter's project. thanks again for posting.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

Thanks @jquinn! I'm not feeling any pressure. When I get into a boat project, passion sort of takes over and I work on it consistently just because it's fun and rewarding. 
No pressure felt internally either, but would love to see it done by April or so for spring runoff. It's realistic!

Got a minor update, but didn't get any pics: glassed one side of the bulkheads last night, the other side this morning. Will trim the glass and trim the bulkheads to fit, then glue them in tonight.

I love shaping oars possibly more than building boats, but I LOVE rowing dories on moving water. I'm finding so much joy in both mellow Class I stuff as I am III/IV....but this thing very well might see the Lochsa.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

Day 7: bulkheads glassed









The glassed cedar bulkheads. Yeah, the butt joints are ugly, but the deck/bulkheads will be painted. Glue 'em together with a narrow bead of cheap white Elmer's glue. Epoxy will wick into the rest of the joint and really bond things when it gets glassed.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

Update time!
From late on Day 6, floor glass wet out and flow coated. Had a bit of a dry spot right of the heater where the tow didn't get completely saturated. Hit it with the heat gun, but the epoxy had already started to kick. I gave my previous US Composites more heat to saturate the glass. I can see I'll need to give the RAKA more patience, it will saturate on its own, accelerating it might be too fast for a good soak.









Day 7: Bulkheads glassed (above)

Day 8: bulkheads installed

Checking the fit. Center one dropped in. Front one took a lot of trimming. 
Trim a tiny bit at a time!
*







*


This is one of my better ideas of late: HDPE strips clamped to the sides to align the bulkheads as the epoxy cured. Epoxy doesn’t stick to HDPE.

Did a quick scuff sand on the sides and bottom where the epoxy needed to bond. Brushed on unthickened epoxy, it flows better and will bond into the little scuffs. Then thickened epoxy (a little flour, a little kitty hair...runny milkshake consistency) on the edges of hte bulkhead. Worked great to drop the epoxied bulkheads into the slots rather than trying to align clamps with epoxy goo sliding all over. 



















That’s a temp spreader above the forward bulkhead so there’s no pressure on the bulkhead or joints until the epoxy cures 









Tonight I will do a thicker epoxy fillet with more chopped glass in the mix and then a ~3" wide biax tape fillet.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

Day 9: glass tape fillets on the bulkheads










Sanded the rough spots this morning and added a flow coat. I'll start framing the decks this weekend.


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

Beautiful work, and very inventive as well. The sole thing that has me wondering, is a true Briggs has the bulkheads in frames, and the boat is assembled around the frames. The further you go, the more it appears you're doing a stitch and glue boat, sort of, are you going to build frames around the bulkheads and such as a afterthought ?


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

Not true Briggs, just inspired by his hull design. I attend the church of frozen snot.


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

Having dealt with both, I echo Brad's distaste for the snot, it's a shade more work to build frames, but I can't imagine the damage I would have had last year if I hadn't had the frames..


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

I have a 14' 2-seater on the drawing board. I should see about getting some POC and try my hand at a framed boat.

Honestly, in the long run it's probably easier to build frames than to glass everything.


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

It's not hard, everything you need in the way of dimensions is on the lofting. You have a table saw, that's all you really need to make the angles and channels, you construct them right on the lofting table, after the first one the rest are easy. The big thing for me, no cure time. When I was in Brad's class, the snot really didn't come out until after the hull was built and it came time to seal the hatch gutters and deck, and that was minimal. What he calls "Pooky", Lifecaulk boat caulk, was used in the assembly everywhere, bow post, transom, floor to sides, all the bulkheads, granted the inside seams were filleted and glassed for strength, but past that all pooky


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

@duct tape is building a framed dory after building Huerfano as a stitch and glue from foam core. I really do appreciate the process. Wish that turkey would post more build pics!!!

I've built 6 kayaks, 2 canoes, and 1.5 dories with fiberglass. It's what I know.


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

Well, according to the site, he's last seen 3 months ago.. I don't have anything against stitch and glue, have a couple friends that have built boats that way, well you and Buck, both turned out fine craft, I just think the traditional Briggs design is stronger in all instances, and having beat a few holes in my boats ala Brad, "Build em, run em, wreck em fix em and run em again" theory... Just reread Fedarko's book again, very few Golden Runs even in those days..


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## BenSlaughter (Jun 16, 2017)

Love your projects!!

Who do you buy your cloth\epoxy from?
It'll be a while before I get into boat building, but I do wanna build new coolers for my raft frame this winter...

Thanks, Ben


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

MNichols said:


> Well, according to the site, he's last seen 3 months ago.. I don't have anything against stitch and glue, have a couple friends that have built boats that way, well you and Buck, both turned out fine craft, I just think the traditional Briggs design is stronger in all instances, and having beat a few holes in my boats ala Brad, "Build em, run em, wreck em fix em and run em again" theory... Just reread Fedarko's book again, very few Golden Runs even in those days..


Kenton Grua's final boat Grand Canyon was cold molded with Kevlar, Rudi Petschek built glass-cored wood boats, and OARS newer fleet entries are all S&G. You can't churn out a S&G boat in two weeks, there must be a reason they take that much time up front.
I'm not saying that framed boats are only an anachronism, either...this is more like a hypalon vs PVC raft debate. Hypalon has been around a lot longer, and is still around, but PVC wasn't only a flash in the pan.

Anyhoo, this is a better discussion over a campfire and bourbon than on the interwebs.
Book of Faces is ugly enough right now that I'm staying out of e-debates and focusing on my build for my own sanity.

And it's about time for my annual reread of the Emerald Mile. I love the way Fedarko writes. Magic.




BenSlaughter said:


> Love your projects!!
> Who do you buy your cloth\epoxy from?
> It'll be a while before I get into boat building, but I do wanna build new coolers for my raft frame this winter...
> 
> Thanks, Ben


Good question!

It pays to shop. There aren't all that many fiberglass manufacturers, but lots of stores retail glass. It's used heavily in the aerospace and other high tech industries, so QC is high, and you really can't go wrong with any of them. Only tip: don't buy raw glass ("in the griege"). You need it finished with volan or silane which helps the epoxy or polyester bond to the glass fibers. All the boatbuilding suppliers have the correct glass.

I bought most of my glass and epoxy for my early projects from Raka.

For Great Falls, I had epoxy left over from US Composites. It has an amber hue and some tendency to blush, but it is economical and is a very tough, resilient resin.
I bought the 1708 biaxial floor cloth from Fiberglass supply. https://shop.fiberglasssupply.com/Knit_Reinforcements-17_oz_X_50in_45_-45_Biax.html
The plain woven 6oz cloth was from Noah's marine (now $5.25 but was $4/ly when I bought it). Economy Fiberglass Cloth : Noahsmarine.com

I'm back to Raka epoxy for this project. Using their standard 127 resin, and a combo of 610 fast hardener (now) and 350 non-blush hardener which I'll use for the sides and deck glass. Raka wets the glass out nicer, and I'm liking the fast hardener better than the US C medium speed hardener for winter work.

There's a good discussion on the Whitewater Dories FB group right now and most people prefer Raka, Resin Research 2040, or the old school WEST System epoxy. A few people are using MAS Silvertip epoxy. West is thicker, doesn't wet the glass out as well, and is more brittle. The people who are using Resin Research 2040 like that it's tough and not brittle. It's somewhat expensive in small quantities, but very reasonable in boatbuilding quantities. I'm trading another guy for some Resin Research and am looking forward to comparing it to Raka. So...my sense is that people tend to stick with what they know. I don't think you can go wrong with Raka, Resin Research, or MAS, but I'd steer you away from West, because I think it's too expensive compared to the performance you can get from the other three.

With this and couple more boats on my horizon, I bought 3 rolls of glass on a pallet from Thayercraft.com. Best pricing and what he had available were 8oz plain weave and a 1208 biaxial with chopped mat layer that I'm using on the floor. 2/3 the price of what I've paid before but I had to buy enough for 3 boats. haha.
Steve's phone doesn't seem to be ringing through right now, so not sure if he's currently open for business or not.

there are a couple of good build threads on the internet for custom coolers:





Here's how i built a custom sized fiberglass cooler on the cheap - The Hull Truth - Boating and Fishing Forum


Boating How-Tos : The Kerno Memorial Forum - Here's how i built a custom sized fiberglass cooler on the cheap - I needed a specific sized cooler, and there was nothing on the market to fit my space. So I decided to build one. I wanted it to be light, strong, and cheap. Did some digging and came...



www.thehulltruth.com












Fretwater Snotworks


There are a lot of things I really love doing, but working extensively with fiberglass ("frozen snot") is not high on the list. In spite of...




fretwaterlines.blogspot.com





You could also build custom dryboxes using similar methods.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

Friday morning I put fill coats on the fillets.









Day 10:
This will be the new sheer (gunnel) line. 1.5" lower at the center of the boat. I think it's purty.









cutting decks. Stern deck. I will sit on this section of deck and there will be a hatch behind me. I measure the width at the front of the deck, the back of the deck, then take a batten to determine how much convex curve there is between the two. Scribe that on the plywood, and then cut about 1/4" outside the line. I then use an oscillating multitool to trim the high spots and "sneak up on" the line.









Then did the same for the aft deck. Didn't get a pic of the frame at the back of the center deck, will add one later.
Front bulkhead was a tad low so I added two more strips. Will glass them in with the deck.










And the foredeck.


















Originally planned on an 18”x32” stern hatch. Would have been a 16”x30” opening. Too small for a 65qt cooler. Bumped it up to 20”x33”. 








Front hatch will remain 18”x32"


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

Day 11, Sunday January 10. yesterday was a crazy productive day. Worked 9 solid hours.

Hatch frames and lower lip support. Laminating everything rather than cutting from solid stock. Stronger laminated, plus using up scrap and making less sawdust.

I start by drilling a hole in the corner of where I'd marked the hatch on the deck to transfer that point to the bottom side of the deck.

First piece is a 3/4" tall x 1" wide "riser". Cut a piece to span across the width of the boat, miter the corners to match the side panels. Temp screw that to the deck. then two 18" or 20" long pieces for the risers at the sides of the hatch opening.

Then a 2.5" wide x 1/2" thick "platform" that the hatch lips will rest on. This will all get glassed on the bottom for tensile strength.

I'll then add the 3/4" chamfer "ramps" on the outsides of the frame to make it easy for the fiberglass to wrap up and over. 









Working out the oarsmans footwell and side bulkheads. Using up meranti ply scrap from the big boat. I have enough material from my initial cutting plan...but those pieces are also large enough to be two more side panels for another small boat!!









And the spare oar slot.









Glassing the underside of the decks. I trim the glass 1” larger in all dimensions, fold the glass over, wet out half the wood, fold the glass over to expose the other half, wet that out, then spread epoxy in all the glass. Once the glass is wet out, it will appear hazy as there is air between the fibers and weave. Mix more epoxy, squeegee it on and make the glass shiny again. Within 8-12 hours (so the epoxy will chemically bond before it is fully cured) squeegee on at least one flow coat to fully fill the weave. 









Plain weave glass is all but transparent when wet out.

Glass on the underside of the decks provides tensile strength...so I can sit/step/sleep on them. 








They got a quick fill coat this morning.

52sf of 8oz glass took right around 50oz of epoxy including what was used as glue to join the hatch risers and plates.


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## gnoble1 (Jul 31, 2018)

Impressive pace. Appreciate the detailed pictures and explanation of the hatch frames. This a fun follow- great content!


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

gnoble1 said:


> Impressive pace. Appreciate the detailed pictures and explanation of the hatch frames. This a fun follow- great content!


Thanks! There are a couple people who will be building them, so I'm writing enough explanation that they can follow.


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

Such a cute little boat. Fun to watch it come together.. You taking it in June LOL?


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

Big boat for the big water and big rivers...but this should be done by April for early season, we'll see if I feel confident enough to run the Lochsa in it!!


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## BGillespie (Jul 15, 2018)

MT4Runner said:


> Big boat for the big water and big rivers...but this should be done by April for early season, we'll see if I get drunk enough to run the Lochsa in it!!


Fixed. :fangers:


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

70 runs on the Lochsa, never run it drunk, don't plan to. Only the Class IV rapids get names, and there is more than 1 named rapid per mile. There isn't time to drink a beer in between rapids, and we're usually on the water by 11am, so there isn't time to get drunk beforehand. haha
But plenty drunk more than a couple times in camp later in the evening.

I love the river, just a matter of me mentally balancing whether I think I'll hit rocks and have to repair it vs how bad I want to run it in the dory!!


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## 2tomcat2 (May 27, 2012)

MT4Runner said:


> 70 runs on the Lochsa, never run it drunk, don't plan to. Only the Class IV rapids get names, and there is more than 1 named rapid per mile. There isn't time to drink a beer in between rapids, and we're usually on the water by 11am, so there isn't time to get drunk beforehand. haha
> But plenty drunk more than a couple times in camp later in the evening.
> 
> I love the river, just a matter of me mentally balancing whether I think I'll hit rocks and have to repair it vs how bad I want to run it in the dory!!


Your passion is evident, this last line could be the first sentence in a dory and/or river book!


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

MT4Runner said:


> I love the river, just a matter of me mentally balancing whether I think I'll hit rocks and have to repair it vs how bad I want to run it in the dory!!


This dilemma, pervades the hearts and minds of all Dory drivers, in all instances, and bad decisions abound, which teaches us how to scarf and repair LOL


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

Ah, tis a consummation, devoutly to be wished.
Wait, what?! 

The way a dory moves in the water stirs the soul. It's difficult to explain. Rocks are the scary part, not big water; and repairs are the toll to be paid for not being mindful of the loving stones.


As an aside, we'd discussed camera cases. Realized I take FAR fewer photos when I'm in the dory than I do in the raft. Both have "auto pilot" mode, but rafts tend to better suffer driving themselves into rocks.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

Quickie update. Day 12 was a short but good one.

Home at lunch time to glass the other sides of the side bulkheads. Got home from work, did a flow coat, set the bulkheads in thickened epoxy/chopped fiber while being very careful not to mar the wet coat on the one side, went to dinner with coworkers, then off to play adult hockey league with my oldest. She's now 19 and too old for youth hockey, so I dropped down a division and signed us up to play on a team together this spring. Pretty awesome day.










With the little cube heater going, the fillets and flow coat were both hard by the time I got home from the game at 11pm. 5 hours after I set them. I'm loving this Raka 610 fast hardener for cold weather work. My shop is maybe 45°F.


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

MT4Runner said:


> Ah, tis a consummation, devoutly to be wished.
> Wait, what?!
> 
> The way a dory moves in the water stirs the soul. It's difficult to explain. Rocks are the scary part, not big water; and repairs are the toll to be paid for not being mindful of the loving stones.
> ...


That's why I appreciate my Nikon dive camera, it's always handy completely waterproof and all I have to do is pick it up and turn it on. That being said, in the Dory I tend to I tend to give it to my passenger...


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

Day 13: Cut the hatches out of the bow and stern decks, glued the frames to the underside of the decks.











Chamfer strips to help the glass conform up and over the frame. I'll glass them upside-down so gravity helps me (did this last time on my knees with my head in the hatch, and with the entire boat upside down.

Also cut a small chamfer on that wide strip before gluing it to the deck. It was easier to clamp it to the 1x3/4 riser below it without a chamfer. 










This miter will get a little trim before I bed it in the boat.

Plywood spacer under the wide part just to maintain spacing and give a little more gluing surface against the side panel.









Remember when my longitudinal strap pulled my transom away from the side panels? Sliced the epoxy joint with the oscillating tool (wish I had bought one of these before the big boat build) and reglued that this morning with some thickened epoxy/kitty hair


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

Big travel day for work yesterday, so I didn't get the thread updated.

Day 14 (Weds night): glassed the frames, stem, and transom. Stem and transom have 17oz biax on the joints.

Stern deck frames glassed










Bow deck frame
Frame corners have 2 extra layers of glass for strength on the joint. 









Trimmed the glass.
Needs a little sanding








Good view to see the different pieces. I could have cut it all out of solid stock, but it would have taken longer and I'd have had to find more perfect grained wood.

Really excited to come up with the idea to build these upside-down. I saved myself a TON of time not crawling around on my knees, having to put my head up in the hatch of an upside-down boat to glass these parts.

Oh, and it looks sort of messy because it is sort of messy...but I had just trimmed the glass; just should have vacuumed up the little bits before the photo. The neater you are, the less trimming, sanding, and nasty itchy fiberglass dust all over..and less epoxy goo all over. Precut your glass, have it all laid out, only mix what epoxy you need (and err on the side of less..you can mix more). Be neat and quick in applying it. Don't try to be perfect when you first spread it; just go for general coverage and get the epoxy dumped out of the cup before it turns into smoking goo. Get it spread out before it runs..let it saturate the glass. Then go back and spread it smoother..when it's spread out, it's cooler and it won't kick quite as fast.


First gave the kitty hair fillets a quick sanding to cut off the high spots. Smeared thickened epoxy evenly on the fillets to fill the low spots so the biax lays flat.
17 ounce biax tape on the seams and 8 ounce all the way across the face of the transom. 
By laying the plain weave 8 ounce over the biax, I don’t have to sand the biax first...only the edges of the plain weave glass is remotely rough; it will get a quick sanding and be good to go with one flow coat.













Similar on the bowpost. Quick sand, fill the low spots, biax tape, then plain weave.









Did a quick sand on the green epoxy and flow coated this morning. Tonight I'll glue in the decks.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

Day 16, a good 8hr Saturday:
Sanded the stern deck fillets, scribed and fit the spare oar slot floors, squared and trimmed the hatch lids, ripped the hatch lip stock (3/8” x3/8” mahogany and jatoba), another fillet and glassed the stern and mid decks, sanded inside the bow and final flow coat on its fillets so no rough fiberglass, glued in the bow deck, glued the floors to the spare oar mini bulkheads, and glued in some of the hatch lips. _phew_


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

Day 17, Sunday: glassed the foredeck, fill coat on the aft deck, glassed the spare oar slot floor, Glassed 2 of 16 hatch lid lips (4 lids, 4 sides...but then another 4x4 on the decks. Gotta get going!!



























I use HDPE strips to press the glass in place on all 4 lips at once.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

17.5 (1hr this morning before work)

fill coat the bow deck and visible portions of the oar slots. I’ll leave it raw wood belowdecks so no filler and I can see if I get rot or damage.



















the HDPE leaves a very fine finish and wraps the glass tightly. Pressing the glass in place leaves a really pretty finish. It’s not quite as light/dense as vacuum bagging, but a lot better than a hand layup...and a LOT faster than both.









Hinge side hatch lip has a chamfer so the lid lip and the deck lip clear each other as the hatch swings open.


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## raymo (Aug 10, 2008)

Thanks MT 4Runner, really enjoy the write-up's and photos of your progress on that sweet boat.


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

What he said, and congratulations, is starting to look like a finished boat!


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

raymo said:


> Thanks MT 4Runner, really enjoy the write-up's and photos of your progress on that sweet boat.


Thanks!


MNichols said:


> What he said, and congratulations, is starting to look like a finished boat!


Thanks! It is! Now the slow process of building hatch lips. 4 hatches x 4 sides x (1 lip on the hatch + 1 lip on the frame) = 32 lips to glass. 4 down, 28 to go!

Not sure why this is going so fast. Not pushing myself, but it's some sick combination of 20 years of project management and passion of boatbuilding again. 
I do want to be on the water this spring (March) but will probably be done well before that!!


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

Center bulkheads were in, so it was easy to clamp the spare oar slots to them, and maintain 14" spacing and keep everything square to match the hatch lids. Also easier to glue and clamp in the frames now than to try to cope them around the epoxy fillets








The fairing coat wasn't quite hard enough to sand last night, so I used the chisel to knock off any drips or goobers...easier than sanding them later. A scraper also works well.










Level to ensure both frames are in the same plane, so the hatch lid doesn’t have to twist.
They can be "half a bubble off"..but both need to be the same half a bubble.









Gutter in the back of the frame so water drains from the middle outward, and drain into the spare oar slot which will have a scupper hole.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

The hatch lids line up!


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

19: the sides of the side hatch frames and 2 more hatch lips.








These frames have a big 45° chamfer on the bottom. I'll cover the exposed wood with a thin layer of glass, both for strength and to keep water out. 

The 45 makes it easier to conform the glass...and also keeps drybags and gear from snagging on the frames when unloading!

There's an additional "strongback" stiffener on each side of the footwell bulkhead just to keep the top of the bulkhead straight while the epoxy is curing. Once the bulkhead and frame are glued together, they'll stay straight.



Should have done these hatch lips first on the largest stern hatch, as it needs the longest HDPE strips ... and they get cut down to do the smaller and smaller hatches.










That's a lot of clamps. Let's get this thing TIGHT!

Added weight (and a broomstick to the ceiling) in the middle of the panel. If the lips are flat when the glass sets up, it keeps the hatch flat.
If there's any curvature in the panel or the hatch lip stock, the epoxy/glass will lock that curve in forever.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

19.5: Turned the heat down a bit too low this morning and my epoxy didn’t kick during the day; HDPE strips were tied up limiting progress tonight.











Here’s some tech: “trunnels” short for ‘tree-nails’. Short pieces of branch were used for dowels and/or nails. You can always find the right diameter and they don’t cause rust/rot like steel nails.

Instead of gluing the lip on one night, and glassing it the next, I’m doing it all at once. Trunnels cut from bamboo skewers keep the lip aligned while gluing/glassing.









trim it flush


















and wrap with glass


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

Tree Nails huh.. LOL, I was taught to use silicon bronze screws LOL


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

For small parts while glue cures?
That would be a LOT of screws!!


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

Makes it stronger  And it IS a lot of screws, I'd estimate on a Briggs build, there are at LEAST 500. Remember to use the slotted head ones !!


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

Day 20: 2 more lips. 11 down, 21 to go


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

21: no pics of last night or this morning, but 4 more lips done. 
Imagine similar lids, same clamps in similar spots. haha.

This is the drudgery part. Waiting for epoxy to cure. 
Great work for the work week. An hour in the evening, and an hour in the morning. 
Horrible work to tie up a weekend!


13 down, 19 to go.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

22: fillets and glass tape in the oarsman’s foot well.
23: sanded the edges of the glass and fill coated it. Fill coated the bow hatch, glassed the tops of the side hatches.


Epoxy with chopped glass and thickened with flour for fillets, covered with 2" glass tape cut from plain weave cloth. If you cover the wet fillet with tape, you don't have to smooth it as much or sand all that loose glass!!









Inside left hatch, first coat. (Second coat same view is 2 pics down)
Latch landing is visible in the upper left for the dog on the Southco latch. Way easier to cut while the board is loose than to try to chisel or cut with an oscillating tool.


















Inside left hatch, sanded the rough edges and second coat of epoxy.







Yeah, that's a big knot on the left. It's just a hatch landing and it has continuous support glued to the top of the bulkhead. Will get covered in glass..and is less wasteful than burning a board because of a knot in a non-structural location.



Glassed the side hatch lids and fill coated the bow hatch lid. Crazy stiff and strong with glass on both faces.


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

Outstanding craftsmanship!


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

MNichols said:


> Outstanding craftsmanship!


Thanks! I'd say craftsmanship is as good as possible considering the accelerated schedule. I'd give myself an A-... doing A+ work would require about 2x the time. Reads like my HS transcript, lots of A-/B+ grades. Dad said he knew I could have had a 4.0 "Yeah, but I got my homework done as quickly as possible to give myself more shop time!"

I'm at 73 hours in 23 work days and 28 calendar days and would say I'm about 60% complete. It won't be a 100 hour boat...guessing 120?


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## T.O.Mac (Jun 6, 2015)

MT4Runner said:


> Thanks! I'd say craftsmanship is as good as possible considering the accelerated schedule. I'd give myself an A-... doing A+ work would require about 2x the time. Reads like my HS transcript, lots of A-/B+ grades. Dad said he knew I could have had a 4.0 "Yeah, but I got my homework done as quickly as possible to give myself more shop time!"
> 
> I'm at 73 hours in 23 work days and 28 calendar days and would say I'm about 60% complete. It won't be a 100 hour boat...guessing 120?


I have spent more time than that just staring at my boat in the garage, with a beer in my hand, looking for better ways to rig it (and more crap to add to it)...usually with the goal of setting up a perfect bar somewhere on board for the dance party


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

Wifey walked out on Sat and caught me sitting in the cockpit sipping my coffee.
I love dory parties.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

24: fairing coat on the hatches and footwell 

Shop vac hose is a little short, so I put it up in the boat so it will reach down into the footwell when sanding. I glassed the bulkheads so long ago I was worried about blush not letting the new epoxy stick, so I washed the surfaces with mild soapy water and wiped it dry. Then sanded with 80-grit.









More fairing with epoxy and phenolic microballoons. I coated did the hatches off the deck, but set them on the boat for the photo this morning. any drips/sags were chiseled off while the epoxy is still soft-ish.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

25: short night, hatch lip 15. One more on the lids and 16 to go on the boat.








Also have the stern hatch lip riser going on in the background. the deck has a triple step. Lowest is the gutter. Next step up is where the hatch lip lands. Top is the deck lip. You can put weatherstripping on both upper steps for a super tight seal (like a drybox) and keep the weatherstripping out of the puddle and sand/silt, leaving the puddle clear to drain. Credit to a guy named Chris Towles in Wyoming for the double lip idea and sharing his insight with me.

Here's a pic of what the double lip looks like on the big boat. I could (but haven't needed to) add a gasket on the middle step of the deck so the lid lip would land on it. Trimlok gasket FTW!


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## Pinner62 (Jun 25, 2013)

What are the details on your Southco attachments? did you fab a piece to secure the latch to the hatch? Not standard equipment right?
Love the decoupage BTW,... classic.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

I bought a lot of (40) Southco latches from an RV surplus dealer on eBay. Spent $8/ea instead of $30/ea, so one boat worth paid for the next two boats.

But they came with the flat backing plate useful for 3/4" or thicker doors. I cut some anodized aluminum square tubing into those u-shapes to fit my thinner doors. Nothing fancy, just a little longer than the factory ones. I'd love to find some 2" aluminum h-channel and do some mounting plates with integrated latch guards.

Decoupage:
Buddy of mine built a little motor tug and did marine charts on his walls, I loved the look and wanted similar in my hatches. My boat is the Great Falls, so that's a pic of the original Great Falls of the Missouri, some Charlie Russell prints, and a map of Lewis and Clark's portage of the full series of falls. There's a hint in here about the name of the little boat.

My big stern cross hatch has an 1890 Rand McNally map print:









Bow cross hatch is a "settler" map of Cascade County, MT with very interesting descriptions of the towns in the late 1890's








This one is grayish. The epoxy saturated the paper and you can see some of the dark wood behind. I figured out that a coat of white paint on the back of the paper let the print show better (all the other pics)...even if the front side got saturated with epoxy.

Other side hatch is a map of L&C's journey:


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

Pinner62 said:


> Framed. I was at Brad Dimmock's workshop in Flag in February'18. It originally went to another participant. He wasn't able to finish it so I picked it up from him in Prescott. I've had it a year. I'll post some pics tomorrow. Looking forward to the sound of waves on the gunnels!


I still wanna see your pics, Pinner!!

Nothing like the sound of waves on a wooden boat.


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## codycleve (Mar 26, 2012)

Do I spy Celilo falls on that first hatch?


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

Pinner62 said:


> What are the details on your Southco attachments? did you fab a piece to secure the latch to the hatch? Not standard equipment right?


Couple more details on Southco latches:
The latch bodies are all the same. 

They are all sealed. Locking or non-locking, gasketed or non-gasketed, the body is the same. Buy them without gaskets and cut your own out of $0.99/sheet craft foam from Hobby Lobby. Their $4.95/ea gaskets are just soft foam!

There are different models of "panel thickness" (door/hatch thickness) and this only changes which mounting bracket comes in the baggie, which is easy to change or build yourself.

The "grip range" determines the depth of the latch arm itself.

C5-xx-15 grip range is too thin for a wooden frame. Probably work fine if you have aluminum hatch frames.
C5-xx-25 grip range will require a recess for the latch arm (1.14" MAXIMUM combined thickness of door, lips, and frame) but is probably least likely to snag on gear
C5-xx-35 is what I used..the bolt sticks out aways, but was an easy fit. I could/should trim it.
C5-xx-45 is likely too thick unless you have really thick hatches and frames. IMHO would be too much of a gear snagger. If you flip your boat and the gear falls against the lever arm, you'll have the devil of a time getting your hatch open.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

codycleve said:


> Do I spy Celilo falls on that first hatch?


The Great Falls of the Missouri. Interestingly, from what I've read, it doesn't appear that the Great Falls had a large cultural significance to the Blackfeet.

Would love to see more pics of Celilo Falls, though. The one on the cover of A River Lost is pretty cool with the local tribes spear fishing for salmon


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

26: 16th and final lid lip









This one was OK, but didn't quite get the glass pressed into the lip in the near corner. Will drill a couple holes in it to fill with epoxy.

#15 from Tue night was the best yet.








It won't even require sanding!

And great adhesion and fill of the glass that laps onto the inside face of the hatch.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

Day 27, Saturday, January 30. Crazy productive:
Trimmed the sheer, cut and laminated the gunnels, flipped the boat, cut and sanded the floor, trimmed the transom and stem, stained the transom, fixed the patterns, cut glass for the floor and sides, and ran out of gas!

Trimmed the sheer 1 inch lower in the middle, the backside isn’t yet cut in this photo









Had beautiful weather yesterday starting with beautiful pink cotton candy clouds









Laminated the gunnels, Jatoba faces with western red cedar core










Clamped the gunnels to the bench to keep all the layers straight 









Getting ready to flip

Used one 1” ratchet strap. Solo. 
Interesting but doable


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

But wait...there's more!

Marking gauge to mark the floor joint









Trace it with a pencil









I marked the line but didn’t use it, I watch the blade from the bottom


















Trimmed close with the jigsaw and cleaned up with a block plane and then sander 









I round it to a ~3" radius.










Trimmed the floor at the transom. This got rounded to about a 3/4" radius.









Plywood shadow









Trimmed the sides at the stem:


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

No...there's still more!
Like I said, crazy productive.


The biaxial glass for the floor is 51 inches wide, the floor is 36 inches wide. I cut the glass at 43 inches for about 3.5 inches wrapping over the sheer, and then have two 4-inch strips of tape I will also put on the sheer.













































I should have cut the side panel glass when I did the inside glass, rolled it up, and set it aside.
I marked out a diagonal with a chalk line









Fiberglass cutting station. Good thing I'm tall...it's over 5' off the floor! haha









Got the floor glass in position and clamped the gunnels to the sheer line to take a curve, and called it an evening.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

Sun, Jan 31, Day 28: glassed the floor and chines 

Floor glass was slightly short so I added a bit of length when I glassed the chine tape









Chine tape and fill coated the floor glass. 








this will have a lighter floor and sides, but heavier chine than the big boat. 1 x 20oz + 1 x 20oz tape, + 8oz plain weave.
I'll sand down the threads tonight and fair it with cabosil which is also nice and tough.
I was going to paint the chine black, but that will be too dark too high...going to make it gray paint to somewhat match the stain.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

29: Glassed the sides and flow coated the bottom.

I'm really excited about how the stain looks under the glass.








The scarf joint wasn't perfectly aligned so the panels overlapped too far and I have a hard spot. I'll fair it out a little, but will probably just have to live with it.

With a flow coat, you can see how clear the bottom biax is. I really worked it to get the epoxy into the weave. And the Raka did a good job of wetting it out. Interestingly, I used the Fast hardener on the right and the 350 No Blush on the left, and wet-out and cure times were quite similar.
I didn't work the chine tape quite as much so it's cloudy.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

85 hours elapsed.

Everyone asked me on the big boat, and I didn't track my time. I guessed 400 hours in it. I started it mid-Dec 2018 and launched it Labor weekend 2019. Worked steadily 7 of 9 months (with a big May-June slowdown to play on the rivers)

Looked through my FB album and I flipped Great Falls on May 1, 2019, had the sides and bottom glassed by May 15--about 5 calendar months to this point, working on it ~5 nights a week and some weekends

I started this project on Dec 27... a bit over a calendar month ago. 6 nights a week and most weekends. Smaller boat means a less time sanding or applying epoxy, but I think I've gotten a lot more efficient, too.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

30: flow coated the sides, cabosil mix on the chines and routed/sanded the gunnels. 









Got a little sag in the flow coat on the sides, that will sand out before varnish.









Epoxy thickened with silica fume. It makes a translucent creamy paste about the consistency of Vaseline
"Silica fume is an ultrafine powder collected as a by-product of the silicon and ferrosilicon alloy production and consists of spherical particles with an average particle diameter of 150 nm". Very hard, very tiny dust.
It's makes a strong fillet, but is an absolute pain the rear to sand. For this reason, like my friend Chris Towles says, it also makes a great anti-abrasion coating for rocks and sand in the river.

So there's a layer of silica fume on the chines and floor. It gets quite clear when spread thin.









1/8 roundover on the gunnels.








The Jatoba is so much harder than the cedar, I sanded them with the freestanding drum sander so it cuts them both equally. With 100-grit belts, it is smooth enough for epoxy.

The jatoba is about 3/16" thick but I rounded it over at 1/8" to keep some of the hard stuff exposed on the very outside. The cedar will ding comparatively easy.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

31: 2nd fill coat on the sides, additional cabosil mix on the bottom and chines. No pics, use your imagination!

32: outwales and capped the edge of the ply on the sides.


Bold move: did both outwales.
Used all but one clamp.


















Capped the edge of the ply with a 1/4” wide scrap of ply veneer from trimming the sheer.

Partly for looks and mostly to keep water out of the edge of the plywood


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## duct tape (Aug 25, 2009)

Hey Shawn. Looking really good. Some impressive, innovative work, as always.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

33-37. Installing and glassing the deck hatch lips. Lips #17-21

8 surfaces with one piece of glass. Really happy how with this one came out. Will take minimal touchup down in the grooves

The deck on the right was glassed before, but everything else in the foreground is a single piece of glass in one application with no fill coats. Yay for plastic!









9 separate surfaces on this side lip.
The gray area was scraped of excess epoxy while the epoxy was still green cured. 









Adding 2 layers of glass on the top edge of the spare oar slot. It will see some abuse.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

Lots going on here.

I pre-cut and dowel the hatch lip and riser so they index in place....but don't glue them until a part of the glassing step. If I glued them first, I risk having the slot just a tiny bit too wide or tiny bit too narrow. Too wide means we end up with bubbles under the fiberglass, or worse--loose glass. Too tight and I can't fit the HDPE spacer down in the slot.

So we wet out the glass on a piece of plastic on the workbench, wet out the hatch lip, riser, deck, and all surfaces that will get glass.
Plop the lip and riser down onto their dowels to stay in place, then smoosh the glass in place. Separate pieces of HDPE drop into the drainage channel, then a piece of plastic sheeting that wraps over the lip, another piece of plastic locks it in place and smooshes the glass down onto the hatch step. Wrap the plastic down and around the lip and onto the bottom. Add some more HDPE strips to hold the visqueen in place, and clamps to hold the HDPE in place. The clamping pressure smooshes out any air bubbles and excess epoxy and gives us the nice finish we saw in the previous photos.

I do all this with messy gloves on and don't get any photos, so I'll take pics when I peel this apart in reverse.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

38-39, deck lips 22-23
Full sequence of using HDPE strips to smoosh the glass around all the faces of the hatch lip and deck frame


















One layer of plastic protects my table saw (work surface) and the next layer of plastic is cut to shape and will actually remain with the glass and get smooshed in place.









After the loose mahogany lip and the exposed deck surfaces are wet out with epoxy, drop the lip into place. This is why I use dowels--even if there's some bend in the mahogany, the dowels keep it straight..and it's a lot easier than trying to keep it from sliding around while you're draping wet glass over it.









Then I have a piece of HDPE cut the width of the lower gutter (3/8" and the height of the gutter to deck (1.125"). It smooshes the glass down into the lowest slot.










that piece of HDPE tucks nicely into the slot and its top is flush with the deck.










Next we tuck in the edge of a piece of sheet plastic that will help the glass wrap around the lip.









And another piece of HDPE drops in. It's 1/2" wide (3/8" lip plus 1/8" gap between the lips) and 5/8" high (lip height 3/8" plus deck height 1/4") and sits flush with the first HDPE strip. It clamps that piece of visqueen sheet plastic in place.









Just a scrap of mahogany. It's 1/4" tall by 3/8" wide and presses down on the plastic on top of the lip.









All those pieces are flush on top and flush with the deck.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

There's another piece of HDPE on the bottom to press up on the plastic and glass, and a piece of wood cut to fit inside the hatch that presses in on the face of the glass on the frame and inside of the lip.
And yet another piece of HDPE on top to press down on the glass lapping out onto the deck.









Throw one quick clamp on to keep everything in place so we can use two hands on all the other clamps. 










Then start clamping from one end to the other. Can clamp from the middle toward the end, but never from the ends toward the middle--you're smooshing out excess epoxy and air, and want it to flow out the end, not trap in the middle. 









More clamps 









And more clamps








the outer face of the gunnel isn't parallel with the hatch lip, so a small spring clamp keeps it from sliding.

Fill the whole thing with clamps!!
With even pressure all over the glass, we'll leave it for the night to cure.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

Day 40: this morning before work.

Wet the glass, the deck, and the lip.

The lip fits nicely in place, held by dowels.









We take that wet out glass and smoosh it down into the gutter and drop in another piece of precut HDPE to make it conform.
This is the hinge side, it doesn't really have a gutter, so only has the single elevation behind the lip.

The plastic helps the glass wrap down and around the deck frame--and keeps the wood form from sticking.

I cut a piece of cedar as a form. It conforms to the top of the lip, inside of the lip, the diagonal chamfer of the frame (keeps gear from snagging better than a rectangular frame) and down onto the face of the vertical bulkhead









then we cover the whole thing with clamps









And tent it with the heater for a few hours


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## Bootboy (Aug 25, 2020)

I, for one, cannot wait to see this on the water.

You’ve inspired me to revisit my project of building a 12’ cedar strip canoe for solo flat water lake trips.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

Bootboy said:


> I, for one, cannot wait to see this on the water.
> 
> You’ve inspired me to revisit my project of building a 12’ cedar strip canoe for solo flat water lake trips.


that makes at least two of us!!
I missed a week due to 'Rona but am feeling pretty confident about getting it on the water in late March or so.

Canoes are such wonderful shapes.
This is a little 1:2 scale cedarstrip canoe I built earlier this winter for a friend's cabin:


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## Bootboy (Aug 25, 2020)

MT4Runner said:


> that makes at least two of us!!
> I missed a week due to 'Rona but am feeling pretty confident about getting it on the water in late March or so.
> 
> Canoes are such wonderful shapes.
> ...


Yeah, bought plans and wood but the wheels fell off the project when my dad died 9 years ago. I owe it to him finish it.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

Was dad a canoeist? I'm so sorry for your loss.

Which canoe plans?
And that's a LONG time to store wood...and keep cedar from getting dinged up!


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## Bootboy (Aug 25, 2020)

MT4Runner said:


> Was dad a canoeist? I'm so sorry for your loss.
> 
> Which canoe plans?
> And that's a LONG time to store wood...and keep cedar from getting dinged up!


A little bit. Mom still has the family canoe. 17’ Navarro Loon in fiberglass. Trips to Yellowstone, GR lakes, White river CO/UT, Lake Powell north end primitive beaches, fishing the non-motorized local reservoirs... We wanted solo boats for the above and similar trips where some hiking access may be required.

Dad was a master cabinet maker by hobby so it just seemed like the thing to do. Some of my early woodworking projects were canoe paddles. Haven’t spent time in the wood shop at moms in a very long time.

Don’t remember what plans. I’ll have to dig them up. Wood has sat safely untouched in the wood shop. Cedar with ash and walnut highlights. I think there’s even hardware hiding somewhere. All I need is glass and epoxy.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

Awesome. I've also heard wonderful things about the Nahanni up in Canada..

I'm using Raka epoxy on this project, and have been REALLY happy with it. They also have decent pricing on glass.
I also know of people who have been similarly happy with Resin Research epoxy. Both are less expensive than MAS and West Systems...and are in frequent use by people who can afford to pay more.

Building in that shop will be more than merely a wood project. Savor the journey.


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## class 3 felon (May 14, 2008)

Shawn,

Hope all is well and you are relaxing on a beach somewhere and taking some time off from your build. Looks like your getting close, have enjoyed watching your progress.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

Hey Mark!
Actually, life just got in the way (but in a good way)
Birthday weekend last weekend..pigged out on a seafood brunch, went hatchet throwing, and then took my kid to her first adult hockey dropin session...then it was her final girls hockey state tourney this past weekend. Got to watch a blowout win, a bitter tie ending in a fistfight, a crazy loss with an inexperienced goalie but they still put 6 in on the other team, and an overtime victory to take 3rd place.

In this intervening 2 weeks (no pics) did get hatch lips 27-29 complete through last night, will do 30 tonight, 31-32 by the weekend and should be at final deck fairing and sanding and start gunnel blocks and deck primer which deserve pics!!


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

Days 43-45, lips 28-30

Bottom of my 2x4 was below the plastic and stuck in the epoxy. Will clean up with some sanding.










Scraped off the wood slivers and it looks pretty good. Sanding the other lips as their epoxy has cured. 










Lip 30 in the heat tent for the night, and the hatch cover fits on the right side 










Only the lower deck side lips for the stern and bow hatches remain, then time for a final fairing, gunnels, primer, and paint!


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

So, 5 days hath elapsed, without a progress post? Not like you buddy...


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

Days 46 and 47, hit the elusive final lips 31 and 32!





































The elusive 32nd lip!









Now time for gunnels, fairing, more sanding, and then paint, hardware, and launch day!


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

Hooray! Still a fair amount of work to do, what are you using for your gunwales?


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

Inwales are the same layup as the outwales. Cedar core and jatoba face.
Will add a single false rib under the oarlocks to give them a little more support instead of the gunnel and side panel taking the full load--especially with the tall sidewall at the spare oar slots.


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

Good thinking..


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

I’m going to weld the oarlock stanchions from steel like I did on the big boat, may even include a strap to run down that member


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

More bracing is always better, within reason of course 😎


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

MNichols said:


> Hooray! Still a fair amount of work to do


Not at this pace!!

Day 48: Filled some gaps under the glass with epoxy, and glued on all the gunnel spacer blocks.

Drill two holes on either end of a gap/bubble. Squirt the epoxy in one hole until it comes out the other.









Gunnel blocks clamped on. 3" long, 1" x 3/4" blocks every 12". 
Also added some mahogany demi-ribs under the oarlocks to stiffen the side panels.









Tent to warm it up and cure out the epoxy so I can sand it tonight.










Damn close to primer.


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

Look at you go! Somebody must have had the caffeinated Wheaties this morning lol


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

MNichols said:


> Look at you go! Somebody must have had the caffeinated Wheaties this morning lol


work in the evening, post in the morning. 

That was about 4h last night; 2h sanding, drilling, and filling...and 2h on the gunnel blocks. Most of that time was spent shaping the stern blocks to kiss the transom.


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

You're just happy someone (something ? LOL) is kissing your transom.. 

Gonna have to remember that. "Kiss my transom".. Boating speak for "Kiss my A$$" lololol


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

Got this cap from a coworker today:


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

Indeed ☺.. now if you could just find one that said nice port orford cedar!


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

I actually may have a local source (local wood shop who uses and stocks it, not locally grown, haha)


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

Well, Port orford cedar has left my life for a short period of time... Here's the photo of Brad picking up bears ears, with a doryak named Jaguar on top lol


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

No pic?

No progress pics for me today. Worked late, wifey and daughter had been farrowing hogs the past 24hr, so spent the evening with them to eat dinner and catch up. Snuck out briefly to put a fill coat on the glass in the spare oar slots. If all that epoxy is cured, I _should_ be putting primer on the deck tonight.


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

Five times I've tried to upload a pic, each time mountain buzz says oops something has gone wrong lol


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

MNichols said:


> Five times I've tried to upload a pic, each time mountain buzz says oops something has gone wrong lol


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

49: sanded and primed the deck


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

I must have not been holding my mouth right lol


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

Day 50: one final touchup on the fairing coats









51: more sanding, more primer, and a coat of paint around the gunnel blocks
Can just make out the difference in paint color. White primer in the middle, and gloss around the perimeter 6-8" and gunnel blocks so I don't have to carefully paint around them behind the inwale.


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## duct tape (Aug 25, 2009)

SB , it might just be perspective but those outwales look pretty beefy.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

They're 1" x 1"


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## duct tape (Aug 25, 2009)

Admire the perfect fit of your hatch lids! Perfect gaps. Mine were a struggle and I may fire my first transom hatch effort and try again.


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## duct tape (Aug 25, 2009)

MT4Runner said:


> They're 1" x 1"


some stout steaming/bending requirements there!


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

I struggled with my hatch gaps on Great Falls, biggest issue was too tight of tolerance between the lid lip and the deck lip ~1/16", and then no wiggle room for hinge swing/clearance. Gaps between hatch and deck were reasonably consistent.

I preplanned these a lot more carefully and the gap between lips is more like 3/16" all the way around...but I did fail to account for the thickness of the glass I put over the lips, so the hatches sit 1/16"-1/8" proud of the deck.

A guy on the Wooden Boat People forum suggested building the frames, decks, and hatches off the boat where you have easy access to both sides. I'll do that next time for sure!!!!



duct tape said:


> some stout steaming/bending requirements there!


Actually no!
I laminated the outwales (3/16" jatoba on ~3/4" cedar) and then clamped them on when they were green cured. they took the outside curve nicely.
The inwales were left to cure, and will be TOO DAMN STIFF to bend and I don't think I need that much overall width. I will resaw them to about 5/8" thick and bend them in cold--hopefully tonight!!

I liked your idea of steaming them on the boat, and will probably do that to relieve stress. Assume you leave them clamped so they don't stress the epoxy when hot?


On Great Falls, I got the ash when it was green. Clamped it to the boat to help hold the curve of the sides when I glued in the decks/framing. Then took them off, routed and sanded, and after that ~3 months of being clamped on, held their shape perfectly. Glued them on...then it was probably another 2 months before I epoxied/varnished them so they had plenty of time to dry.


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## duct tape (Aug 25, 2009)

I glued the gunwale scarf joints after steaming.

Edit: wrote that last night but I’m thinking I didn’t read your question right.

When I steamed my gunwales I just clamped both outer and inner sets to the outer sheer, using wood spacers to keep them off the glass side panels. Then they are clamped and bolted on, using no epoxy.


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## Wallrat (Jan 19, 2021)

You did a really fine job on the scarfs. That's very nice work.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

duct tape said:


> I glued the gunwale scarf joints after steaming.


Great idea. I still had some cracks on the inside of the bend, pics tomorrow.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

52: Inwales

Dropped the lids in place, just because.









used all the clamps again.









had some cracking in the cedar on the outside of the bend. It was DRY. Has been in my lumber rack probably 18 years.









So I slathered it with epoxy and clamped it.








this is a prototype boat, and it's also intended to be USED. Besides, if I whacked a wall, I'd fix it the same way. Going for a great job, but not perfection. Yes, I could replace with a perfect new piece, but I also want to launch it in 2 weeks. Full send!
Learn from our mistakes--and share our mistakes so others can learn from them.
Will sand and post more pics after it's varnished.

Pulled the clamps this morning.


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## Bobthegreat (Mar 3, 2019)

That’s coming along. Beautiful lines!


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

Bobthegreat said:


> That’s coming along. Beautiful lines!


Thanks! Hoping to launch quite soon!!


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

53: Routed, sanded, and epoxied the gunnels










Routed with a 1/8" roundover. Had to touch the corners slightly with a rasp.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

54: top coated the white paint. Ready for the accent and center colors.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

55: real paint!

Masking the "football"










Used tabs of 1" tape to space out the inner mask









I use the bandsaw to make my own 1/4 inch white masking tape, then clean up the cut edge with the disc sander. 









Then we start painting! This is Rustoleum Smoke Gray enamel. Also available in rattle cans (easy touchup!!)









Very close in tone to the gray stain on the sides.


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## raymo (Aug 10, 2008)

Holly crap, that is beautifully done!


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

You've outdone yourself my friend, that's absolutely gorgeous..


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## Pinchecharlie (Jul 27, 2017)

Just binged the thread. Yeah man you are killing it! Just looks like Victory at sea sitting there. Your gonna have to send that one lol!!


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

raymo said:


> Holly crap, that is beautifully done!





MNichols said:


> You've outdone yourself my friend, that's absolutely gorgeous..





Pinchecharlie said:


> Just binged the thread. Yeah man you are killing it! Just looks like Victory at sea sitting there. Your gonna have to send that one lol!!


Thank you all! I'm having a blast. 

Have hoped to have her launched in March...might happen this weekend, but still have to finish paint, hatch hinges/latches/gaskets and build the oarlock stanchions. Next weekend is a lot more likely.

Day 56: Sanded the hull and hull top stripe

My lovely assistant helping me turn the hull









The tedium of sanding


















The top stripe:


















And pics of the footbrace in progress


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

57: No paint, and invisible progress.
The white paint band on the upper side wasn’t fully dry, so not quite ready for the accent stripe.
This is a step I really dislike doing, but it makes for a much stronger deck to side panel joint. I save the little 45° bevel strips from other steps and glue them into the seam, then will put fiberglass tape over them, which makes for a stiff but lightweight seam.
More wood strips and clamps are used to press the bevel strips into the curved joint.

A view of the stern hatch from below...let's look above









I use scrap wood strips and clamps to press the fillet strips into the deck/side panel joint. 

This is more easily done with the boat inverted so gravity helps somewhat. It still requires crawling under the boat on my knees, but is easier than hanging down from the deck with my head upside down and all the parts trying to fall down to the floor of the boat.









More clamps and strips. I mix epoxy and cabosil to a mayonnaise consistency, smear that into the joint, press the strip into the goo, and then smear the thickened epoxy smooth.










More clamps..and strips









A view of the bow hatch from below.











Many builders glue rectangular frames to the side panels and lay the decks on the frames.

I like to have all bare wood encapsulated in glass; it's really hard to lay glass over a rectangular part (note most of my deck frames/hatch lips had 45° bevels) so these beveled strips are easier to glass over...but it's really hard to clamp a 45° triangle to a flat side panel in that early step, so I do it at this time and make them fit the deck, rather than making the deck fit the frame.










This strip had quite a bit of curvature...I actually 'cracked' it so it had less stress. It doesn't need strength longitudinally...but does help a lot in shear.









The tools of the trade: kneepads and a headlamp.









Here's a cross section view of what the completed joint will look like.


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## Pinchecharlie (Jul 27, 2017)

Wow thats going to be really strong! I haven't seen this before. Is it industry standard?


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

Normally one would just use filleting compound in epoxy... MT4runner is prone to overkill 😂


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

Standard is a 1x2 or 1x3 wood frame, I don’t know if this is necessarily stronger, but it is a bit lighter and more waterproof.


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## Pinchecharlie (Jul 27, 2017)

Ah yeah of course. Mad craftsman ! Hopefully you'll be sharing the lofting for donations!?


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

58: Masked the accent stripe and glassed all the deck to hull fillet strips inside

Inside the transom:









Strip got a bit burned by the table saw...didn't bother to sand it...hope not to look at it again. haha
This is probably one of the more important fillet strips in the boat--right at the gunnel where I'll be sitting to get in and out of the boat.









Inside the bow:


















This is roughly what it will look like:


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

Enough of looking at raw wood inside the boat.

59: sanded those rough edges below decks, added a fill coat of epoxy, flipped it back over and painted the accent stripes and lower gray band to hide the hazy bias tape on the chine.



















Can’t freaking wait to peel the masking tape.









Peeled the masking tape this morning!


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## class 3 felon (May 14, 2008)

Your definitely winning the interwebs for winter 2021. WW Dories, WBP and here! All I do is watch your build. Looks great I'm really impressed with your craftsmanship and attention to detail. Can't wait to see pictures of it on the water......enjoy the christening and maiden float


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

class 3 felon said:


> Your definitely winning the interwebs for winter 2021. WW Dories, WBP and here! All I do is watch your build. Looks great I'm really impressed with your craftsmanship and attention to detail. Can't wait to see pictures of it on the water......enjoy the christening and maiden float


Thanks M!

I'm hoping to bring it to COWBF XI this fall. 

I'm posting the same stuff on FB, WBP, and here..but these places have slightly different audiences. Would love for WBP to see more traffic, so made an effort to post there. Few builders here, but I'm sure plenty of folks who are interested. Personal FB is for my mom and my aunts who LOVE watching the build...I've posted less on FB WW dories..don't want to be seen as trying to compete with Brad's doryaks.

Cheers!


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

60: trimmed the bow post. Had a crack in one outwale lamination, so that got a fix. Traced her name on the side panel. Cut the hinge stock to length. Cut the latch landings in the hatch frames. Also cut in the latch holes in the lids...plus drank rum and listened to aloha music. It was a good evening 

On the hatch landings the vertical plunge cuts were cut with a 1 1/4" blade in the oscillating tool...no idea how I didn't have one of these on the first build!!! They're crazy useful. I've said before I don't use it for hours on end..I use it for minutes or seconds to save me hours or minutes with other tools.

The horizontal face and back surface were cut with a 3/4" blade. I'm using the cheapest blades I can find from eBay. the 3/4" one is stainless...not _quite _as sharp as the HSS one, but it's more heat-resistant and stays sharp longer. only used a 3/4" chisel to clean out just a little bit of the upper inside, otherwise, the oscillating tool plunge cuts were easy-peasy.










Here's one of the minor embarassing parts, but sharing the fix in case anyone else needs to do similar. 

Had too much stress in the cedar from cold-bending the gunnels and it split up at the bowpost. If I had laminated the cedar and the jatoba, the laminate would have taken the curve, and this probably wouldn't have happened.

So I smooged in some thin epoxy, then some thickened epoxy and re-fastened the screw. This spot will get a bronze through-bolt to handle the stress long-term.


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

Ouch, but then hindsight being 20\20 and all. I find the oscillating tool very handy myself for the same reasons..


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

That cedar is probably ~20 years old, so is very very dry.


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

MT4Runner said:


> That cedar is probably ~20 years old, so is very very dry.


Perhaps soak it in boat soup?


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

MT4Runner said:


> Had too much stress in the cedar from cold-bending the gunnels and it split up at the bowpost. If I had laminated the cedar and the jatoba, the laminate would have taken the curve, and this probably wouldn't have happened.
> View attachment 64123



63: trimming the outwales when BANG! the left side split..just over from the previous split, the vibration from the multitool let 'er rip. Old dry cedar. Glad it was here and not on the river. Re-sawed it into 3/8” strips and glued it back together. Added some backing glass at the oarlock. Should have cold molded them in the first place. Will definitely through-bolt it.
So that stalled my progress.










Started a ukulele case...









Used 2x4's to space the faces apart. 3.5" inside is just a tad skinny..will add a small rib at the bridge and fiberglass inside and outsides.










Then will sand/rout the edges, fiberglass everything visible, and saw the top off once the glass cures.









and younger daughter made some tiller extension handles for a friend.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

Fixed the cracked outwale.










Was one piece. Outer seam is the split that was reglued; inner seam was resawn...so was once a 2-piece outwale (1 cedar, 1 jatoba) and now is 4-piece (3 cedar, 1 jatoba). 








Will laminate next time. 




Ukulele case progress:


















Yet another concurrent project: 
Ripped some beautiful clear tight-grained doug fir for oar shafts








And glued them up.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

66: through-bolted the gunnels so I could finally trim and seal them, set brass threaded inserts in the gunnels for the oarlock stanchions


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

Nearing the end of this active build. Launch day is on Sunday! Will post some updates as I add features/hardware, but will mostly be busy boating!
I will have to do a chinese fire drill to get it out the front of the shop, and will be moving all 3 boats around, so will get weights on all 3 dories on Saturday morning.

67: varnish. Both the unpainted portion of the sides, the gunnels, and two pairs of oars got varnish last night.

I love how a fresh coat makes everything shine.










These are actually the oars for Lil Bastard...started them last fall before this boat project began.

7.5' long, 7" wide blades since they're only 24" long. Crazy light doug fir shafts a bit under 1.5" dia.

Jatoba and curly maple accents...even the shafts...made from all scraps!










Set of 9-foot driftboat oars I'm building to consign at the local fly shop. All douglas fir and walnut.


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

Beautiful work buddy!


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

68: Hatches, latches, and hinges.
Varnish on the gunnels was still tacky, so no oarlock stanchions or deck hardware (yet). Will do that and gaskets tonight. 
Should get a weight on all 3 boats in the morning.

Launch day tomorrow!!










Stern hatch is cavernous. will do gaskets tonight.









lower side panels. The spar varnish over epoxy/glass over the stained wood is a bit amber colored, but I like it. May sand it and clear coat it later, but needed to get it ready for the water.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

70 days, somewhere around 160 hours of work, 3.5 months. Relatively quick build!

69: Got the chicken line, or lock blocks, all the accessories on last night,

70: gaskets today. Loaded up and headed for the river. To say I am excited would be an understatement!


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## Pinchecharlie (Jul 27, 2017)

Woot woot!!


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

Black Eagle Falls

The Mandan and the South Piegan Blackfeet, among other Native Americans, knew of the falls. Salish Indians would often hunt bison in the area on a seasonal basis, but no permanent settlements existed near the Great Falls for much of prehistory. Around 1600, Piegan Blackfoot Indians, migrating west, entered the area, pushing the Salish back into the Rocky Mountains and claiming the area as their own.The Great Falls of the Missouri remained in the tribal territory of the Blackfeet until colonials claimed the region in 1803.

The light-brown and red-brown sandstone layers beneath all the falls are 115-million-year-old products of the Cretaceous Period of the Mesozoic Era, when modern mammal and bird groups, along with the first flowering plants, also emerged. Later in the nineteenth century, geologists named these old riverbed sandstones the Kootenai Formation.

On June 13, 1805, Meriwether Lewis of the Lewis and Clark Expedition became the first white person to see the Great Falls (the largest of the five waterfalls). On the second day that the expedition camped near the series of falls, Meriwether Lewis discovered Black Eagle Falls. I arrived at another cataract of 26 feet...below this fall at a little distance a beautiful little Island well timbered is situated about the middle of the river. in this Island on a Cottonwood tree an Eagle has placed her nest; a more inaccessible spot I believe she could not have found; for neither man nor beast dare pass those gulphs which separate her little domain from the shores. the water is also broken in such manner as it descends over this pitch that the mist or sprey rises to a considerable height. this fall is certainly much the greatest I ever beheld except those two which I have mentioned below. it is incomparably a greater cataract and a more noble interesting object than the celebrated falls of Potomac or Soolkiln. It is unclear which member of the expedition named the falls, but the expedition called them "Upper Pitch."

The falls were eventually named for the black eagle which Lewis saw on June 14, 1805.











> Immigrant Olav Carl "OC" Seltzer was a longtime Great Falls resident and probably the next most prominent local artist after Charlie Russell.
> 
> He painted his interpretation of Captain Meriwether Lewis seeing the black eagle in her nest perched on the falls during their passage through the area and portage of the 5 major waterfalls.


Captain William F. Raynolds, of the Corps of Topographical Engineers, passing this way in command of a U.S. government expedition in 1860, reported that there was still an eagle's nest in a cottonwood tree on the island. Moreover, he observed a specimen of "this peculiarly American bird" perched in a nearby tree, and thought it might be the very same bird Lewis had seen 55 years before. That is remotely possible, considering at least one captive black eagle is thought to have lived nearly fifty years during the mid-twentieth century, but the average age, even in 1805, was at least somewhat less.

In 1872, Thomas P. Roberts, a survey engineer for the Northern Pacific Railway, formally named the cataract "Black Eagle Falls" after the incident recorded in Lewis' journal.









The first dam on the site, built and opened in 1890, was a timber-and-rock crib dam. This structure was the first hydroelectric dam built in Montana and the first built on the Missouri River. The dam helped give the city of Great Falls the nickname "The Electric City."

On April 14, 1908, at about 2:30 PM, Hauser Dam—a steel dam about 90 miles upstream from Great Falls— failed. A surge of water 25-30 feet high swept downstream. A Great Northern Railway locomotive was dispatched to the city of Great Falls, warning stations along the way about the dam break. Workers at the Boston and Montana Smelter in Great Falls improvised a wing dam to deflect the floodwaters away from the smelter site and dynamited a portion of Black Eagle Dam to allow the floodwaters to go downstream.










A second dam, built of concrete in 1926 and opened in 1927, replaced the first dam, which was not removed and lies submerged in the reservoir.









Since 1988, the Long Pool and the Missouri River in and around the city of Great Falls have been listed as an "impaired" waterway under the 1972 Clean Water Act. This area was first listed as impaired due to sedimentation, siltation, and suspended solids in 1988. High levels of chromium, mercury, and selenium were listed as impairing factors in 1992. High turbidity (haziness of water due to suspended particles) was added as an impairing factor in 2000. Sources of these impairments include Black Eagle Dam, upstream abandoned mines, irrigation runoff, industrial sources, and stormwater runoff.

So in the tradition of Martin Litton naming his dories after natural wonders destroyed by the hand of man, I christened her the Black Eagle.


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

And that concludes today's history lesson children!

Thanks for sharing, and a most cool name!

So inquiring minds and all, how did she handle in her maiden voyage?


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

MNichols said:


> And that concludes today's history lesson children!
> 
> Thanks for sharing, and a most cool name!


I had her name picked out before I even bought plywood. Had said it wouldn't be much of a surprise to any of my hometown Great Falls compadres.




MNichols said:


> So inquiring minds and all, how did she handle in her maiden voyage?


Oh man!! EVERY bit as well as expected. Not a single thing I'd change for a boat this size.
It was really informative to have the Lil Bastard a frame of reference. This wasn't really a completely blank sheet of paper, but a big v2.0 jump. I knew the relative boat size/width/length. Blake had said she needed more width and more height in the bow...so Black Eagle is 6" wider and probably 8"-10 higher in the bow.

Interestingly, while the Lil Bastard has a very Grand Banks dory waterline--long/narrow and maybe 2-3" of rocker at the bow and stern, and Black Eagle has the full volume waterline with the Briggs/Rogue flat spot and a lot of rocker (Bow/stern rocker is ~7-8" and the bottom of the stem and bottom of the transom were just touching the waterline (so 7-8" draft amidships). ...they felt quite similar on the water.

I could really control the boat with "body English" and simply leaning fore/aft and left/right could lift over some shallower rocks.


The deck (while on land) was really the only part of Black Eagle I didn't love. Too much curvature and not great for sleeping. Will have to build a raised cuddle board so my spine can lay straight!! On the water, though, fit and function were perfect. I think I nailed it with my belly button in the dead center of the boat and oarlocks about 10" forward. I'm still not quite sure why the other micro dory builder has them built with the oarsman behind the CoG of the boat..and the newest iteration has a passenger behind them. going to have to carry water jugs in the bow hatch even for day runs.



Lil Bastard is going in for surgery this winter. Will make the bow longer/higher and raise the side panels from the prow to the oarlocks...and give her a flatter deck.


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

Nice, so glad to hear that. I had wondered...


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

MNichols said:


> I had wondered...


Deck design..or hull shape?

Hull shape: was crazy to me that the two felt so similar. I'd have to row both in the same day to feel a difference. Neither felt twitchy or had any distracting characteristics.
I think loading and trim makes a vastly larger difference than hull shape on a boat this small. 

And REALLY appreciate your insight from a couple years back about the Rogue/Briggs side panel wide flare being a dry ride. It really is, you hit a wave, and the boat rolls up and over and very little ever gets inside. I don't have a scupper in my footwell and I maybe bailed a gallon all weekend.


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

MT4Runner said:


> Deck design..or hull shape?
> 
> Hull shape: was crazy to me that the two felt so similar. I'd have to row both in the same day to feel a difference. Neither felt twitchy or had any distracting characteristics.
> I think loading and trim makes a vastly larger difference than hull shape on a boat this small.
> ...


Hull shape, and you're welcome.

I have found that loading and trim are crucial no matter how big or small the boat. On a grand trip, generally by day two I'm shifting weight around to achieve the handling characteristics that I desire


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## class 3 felon (May 14, 2008)

Glad to see it on the water, looks great, good name, enjoy rowing it. Did you do an overnighter?


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

class 3 felon said:


> Glad to see it on the water, looks great, good name, enjoy rowing it. Did you do an overnighter?


It was SO MUCH FUN!!

Yes, overnight on the upper MF Flathead. Only 1,800cfs yesterday, so took us over 10h on the river to go 22mi. 65°F and sunny when we launched Saturday, beautiful clear bluebird day, starry night, some sun in the morning, overcast and spitting Sunday afternoon, and snow during the shuttle!

Ran the same stretch in only 4h at 11,500cfs 50 weeks ago.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

.(duplicate)


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## gnoble1 (Jul 31, 2018)

Impressive work! What was the final weight of The Black Eagle?


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

gnoble1 said:


> Impressive work! What was the final weight of The Black Eagle?


Thank you!
And thanks for asking. I had posted that on FB, but forgot to post here.

I weighed Great Falls, the Black Eagle, and the Lil Bastard all on Saturday.

What's your guess?


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## gnoble1 (Jul 31, 2018)

I'm going to guess in the 160s. Something like 25lbs per sheet of plywood x 4 roughly. 4 gallons epoxy x 10lbs. Gunwales, bow, transom another 25lbs. Feeling like that is low.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

So...you're about dead on what I figured. My guess was 170. Similar weight of ply, 4.5gal epoxy, 30yds glass, gunnels, hardware, etc.

Surprised me at only 152 lbs...the cedarstrip bulkheads probably saved me 10lbs.
and coincidentally the Lil Bastard came in the exact same weight. Blake used thicker ply and thinner glass, but very similar overall dimensions.

I figured Great Falls had to be 550, and she came in at 532.
Not sure if my scale was dead on, but it was reading me at 203, same as my bathroom scale. big boat could be off, but 152 is probably pretty close for the BE.


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## gnoble1 (Jul 31, 2018)

Those cedar bulkheads were a nice touch. Any idea how it stacks up in weight vs the Doryaks?


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

Pics from my buddy Jeff Gilman and his lovely wife:


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

gnoble1 said:


> Those cedar bulkheads were a nice touch. Any idea how it stacks up in weight vs the Doryaks?


I understand they're over 200# but don't quote me.


Here's a fun video of a couple 14 year-olds taking it through a class 2 hole a few weeks back:

__
http://instagr.am/p/CULjDyttu5O/


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)




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## Idaho_ski_bum (Jun 22, 2018)

Correct me if I'm wrong. It looks like the aft deck drains to the gutter behind your seat, then out the sides of the boat. Side decks and fore deck drain to the spare oar slots, then out the sides of the boat. No self bailing aspect of the foot well?


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

Correct. Exactly correct.

I will add a drain tube to the oarsmans foot well, but at the time of construction, wasn’t entirely sure at what location to set it. And just haven’t taken the time lately. If it’s flooded, it’s only about 10 gallons to bail.

One thing I would change in a future iteration would be to make the aft deck level. Between it and the fore deck, I have a bit too much curvature for comfortable sleeping.

It’s been extremely dry even in decent size class III.


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