# Advice for an old raft



## carvedog (May 11, 2005)

New frame - $400 to $500. Oars, even cheap ones are at least $100 each. If there are 3 you are only into the rubber $700 to $800. Not bad. Adventurer is an awesome boat. 

Check for baffles and the floor isn't coming apart and go for it. Hard to find anything close to that ready to row. If it is a bucket boat there is less chance of problems with the ibeam floor, but I love self bailers. Pix?


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## jamwin33 (May 20, 2008)

I've got an '83 Avon (bucket) that I absolutely love. Military style valves, and it holds air like the day it was new. If the hypalon has been taken care of, you'll have the boat for years. Good Luck.


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## bray1720 (Jul 16, 2015)

Thanks for the input. Okay, I was just looking at the ad again, and realized it is not a self bailer, so that is my next question. I've only ever rowed self bailers, and have never been in a bucket boat. Is it still a reasonable deal? Also, aside from the floor being more sturdy, is there anything else (besides the obvious that it will need to be bailed by hand) to consider between a self bailer and a non?


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## bray1720 (Jul 16, 2015)

Here are links to the pics, since the thumbnails aren't showing for me.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ypzg2s88bbyvoy2/00505_9VArKPwOmn_600x450.jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/hvwyez1sfp3ck6z/00z0z_4VJbbEkjnOv_600x450.jpg?dl=0


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## ppine (Jul 1, 2015)

I used to have an Avon 16 Adventurer and wish I still had it. Great boats. Mine was from the early 1980s, but never leaked.


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## ColePowered (Apr 7, 2015)

you do the rowing, and let your friends do the bailing. You will also need a beer bitch/beauty


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## OregonRafter (Jan 30, 2013)

He's asking on the upper end for a 30 y/o bucket boat and gear. Even if it is an Avon. Back in the day they were the caddy on the river. I bet it will sit for a while so you might be able to get him down a little. If you are patient you can probably find a quality used self bailer for around there or a little more. I would personally hold out for a SB for anything that price range. But if the boat is otherwise in good shape it will last you a good number of years. He looks like he's upgrading to a SB with that new NRS in the background.


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## carvedog (May 11, 2005)

OregonRafter said:


> He's asking on the upper end for a 30 y/o bucket boat and gear. Even if it is an Avon. Back in the day they were the caddy on the river. I bet it will sit for a while so you might be able to get him down a little. If you are patient you can probably find a quality used self bailer for around there or a little more. I would personally hold out for a SB for anything that price range. But if the boat is otherwise in good shape it will last you a good number of years. He looks like he's upgrading to a SB with that new NRS in the background.


Kind of what I was thinking and I love Avon's. The discoloration of the material is not optimal and I didn't see any oars. The frame is ok. 

Fishing out of a bucket boat sucks unless you have a full floor which means it is hard to bail. I would probably keep looking a bit. If you can get it for $1k or $1200 it might work out ok. Bucket boats are easier to roll and weigh less and less chance of floor failure. I have done buckets and self bailers and I am not going back to buckets.


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## bray1720 (Jul 16, 2015)

Thanks for all the input guys! I'll see if the seller is willing to move at all. It would be a bit of a drive for me, on top of the cost. I love great forums and am glad to have joined this one. I'm in southern Wyoming, so if anyone sees or hears of a steal, please send it! I'm hoping to stay at $2000 or less.


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## InflatableSteve (Jun 12, 2013)

What are you looking to do with the raft? Day trips, overnighters or expedition type trips?

If you just want a day rig, here is a nice NRS. A little over your budget, but it is defiantly in better shape than that Avon and it's a self bailer.

NRS 11 FT Whitewater Fishing Rafting Setup, NRS Frame, Oars & Paddles!


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## bray1720 (Jul 16, 2015)

That is a very clean raft! I should have specified. I am looking for a 13-14 so I can bring the dogs or family and friends when they come to visit. There are also some easy multiday options on our section of the North Platte, so I'd need some room for gear. Thanks


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## dafewillis (Jun 21, 2014)

I'm sure you saw this, but in case you didn't: http://wyoming.craigslist.org/boa/5062566526.html

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## bray1720 (Jul 16, 2015)

Yeah, I have emailed the owner of the Odyssey a few times, and may be in his area this weekend and could check it out. Most of what I've read on mountain buzz sounds like most folks aren't impressed with Odyssey or expect them to last long. Any thoughts? Thanks!


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## bray1720 (Jul 16, 2015)

The owner of the Avon has sent a few more pics, let me know if these make any difference. He says he is selling it for a friend, who may be willing to come down to $1400 or so.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/mcq9jrzamqqv4aa/IMG_20150707_102406325.jpg?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/numgxsnoe3d0yc8/IMG_20150707_102429330_HDR.jpg?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/04z46n8oi54keod/IMG_20150707_102351106.jpg?dl=0


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## dafewillis (Jun 21, 2014)

Regarding the odyssey: I can't speak to its quality or longevity, as there are folks on here who have a TON more experience and knowledge than me. But I can tell you that I chatted with an odyssey owner at the put-in on the Bighorn (I'm also a fishermen who rafts to fish), and he liked his a lot. It was set up with a fishing frame, and the raft itself seemed pretty well put together from my "kick the tires" test. And I'm of the opinion that the sooner you pounce on something decent in your price range (with nothing obviously wrong with the boat), the sooner you're on the water. 

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## bray1720 (Jul 16, 2015)

That's true. Luckily, I still have my little 9 ft cataraft to get out for now, and can hold out for the right deal.

Seller of the Avon has not replied since I asked for a reduction in price.

I have also found a '91 Riken 14 ft for $400. No frame or oars. Seller claims no external leaks or patches, but that two of the baffles are leaking internally. He has been floating class 2-3 on the arkansas with no problems. I've asked for more details and pics. It's also much closer to me than the Avon. Any thoughts? Thanks


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## bray1720 (Jul 16, 2015)

Here is the one pic I have right now

https://www.dropbox.com/s/4fmfw2gxjr9hcfk/00m0m_8IOh08h1VIC_600x450.jpg?dl=0


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## caverdan (Aug 27, 2004)

bray1720 said:


> That's true. Luckily, I still have my little 9 ft cataraft to get out for now, and can hold out for the right deal.
> 
> Seller of the Avon has not replied since I asked for a reduction in price.
> 
> I have also found a '91 Riken 14 ft for $400. No frame or oars. Seller claims no external leaks or patches, but that two of the baffles are leaking internally. He has been floating class 2-3 on the arkansas with no problems. I've asked for more details and pics. It's also much closer to me than the Avon. Any thoughts? Thanks


IMO $1400 is still too much for an Avon bucket boat. If you don't get it.....don't feel bad. You should really hold out for a self bailer. That Avon does seem to be in pretty good shape. Look at the D rings in one of those pictures. The webbing isn't frayed at all. Still it's an old boat with old valves that are a pain to work on. No doubt it will last you a long time......but you'll be wishing you got a self bailer in the long run.

If a boat is having baffle problems......I would pass on it too. You'll have to open up seams to fix it right. Not something a new boat owner should try without the aid of a professional.


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## restrac2000 (Mar 6, 2008)

Owner of 2 80s Avons

$1400 is a bit steep for a bucket for sure. We picked up our 18 foot Bucket for around $500 and the material on it is in much better shape than the one in the photos. 

That material looks odd to me. Could just be a bad photos but it looks faded and like it has a ton of roll marks from poor storage. The SB we bought recently has a few but no that many. Our fabric also has much less fading. We did replace the D-Rings as they were far worse off than those but if I were you would ask more about its history, etc. If the rings haven't been replaced since original purchase than I would get new ones which adds up. Unlike the hypalon material of the main tubes the fabric on the d-rings does not hold up well to age and UV exposure. The d-rings are pivotal as they will be holding in items upwards of $2-4k on a multiday trip. 

The patch jobs look questionable to me.

The frame and setup are a bit odd for whitewater in my book. 

The straps need to be retired.

Phillip


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## elkhaven (Sep 11, 2013)

I know the odyssey discussion was awhile ago and so I may be too late, but there is nothing wrong with them...I think they're probably on the better side of the budget range, a half step down from RMR. There are literally TONS of those boats around here - easily the most numerous boat in SW Montana. I've not heard of problems with them, they seem to be simple and durable. I'm sure you'll get 10 years out of one if you take care of it and by then your needs will change anyways. I wouldn't hesitate if it were in good shape...with that said, they are thinner/lighter material, so if they look weathered, faded etc. I would be more hesitant. Simple advice I know but if they're stored outside and faded, they won't last as long...


Edit, I just relooked above, there really wasn't any discussion, unless I'm blind. That boat seems like it's in good shape - I can't say that's a screaming deal as it's a very simply set up. But I don't think it's a bad deal. I have an acquaintance that bought one, brand new end of season closeout, I think he paid $2600 with an NRS fishing frame and two oars... You might look around for such a deal in the near future. Bob Wards (several Montana towns), Capitol sports in Helena and Sunshine sports in Billings all sell them, as does the Round house here in Bzn. On another note, check out cross currents fly shop in Craig Montana, they sell their rental gear pretty cheap at the end of the season and will ship.


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## bray1720 (Jul 16, 2015)

Thanks for all the advice everyone! I definitely appreciate it. I am in Casper right now, which is where the Odyssey is. Maybe I'll try and meet up with the seller to see it and discuss value.


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## bray1720 (Jul 16, 2015)

Funny, I just realized that Riken is also posted here in the classifieds...


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## carvedog (May 11, 2005)

bray1720 said:


> Thanks for all the advice everyone! I definitely appreciate it. I am in Casper right now, which is where the Odyssey is. Maybe I'll try and meet up with the seller to see it and discuss value.


FWIW break down oars are not awesome. Maybe for a spare on a small raft, but I wouldn't give them much value at all. 


That said I think Odyssey is a decent raft.


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## bray1720 (Jul 16, 2015)

Thanks for all the help everyone. I ended up finding a closeout sale, and grabbed a new 13.5 foot Odyssey, NRS Bighorn I frame, two Carlisle oars, oarlocks, sleeves, oar rights, and straps for under $2500. Raft has a 5 year warranty, and from what I'm reading post-2004 Odyssey rafts are much better than pre-2004. I feel like it was a pretty good deal. Of course a day later this pops up, but what can you do 

Fishing Raft ~ Odyssey 14'


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## Roguelawyer (Apr 2, 2015)

Sweet! I love getting new gear.


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## bray1720 (Jul 16, 2015)

Yeah, I'm pumped! Can't pick it up until the 11th or 12th and it's killing me!


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## caverdan (Aug 27, 2004)

Way to go........you'll be sooooo glad you held out and got a self bailer.


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## bray1720 (Jul 16, 2015)

Yes, I'm feeling good about that. I guess I do have a couple other questions now before I go pick it up. 1) What is everyone's thoughts on getting the 13.5 ft vs the 14 ft for $100 more. I think the tubes are about an inch larger diameter and it has four fewer d-rings than the 13.5. 2) I'm guessing the frame is the 60 inch wide Bighorn, so about 66-68 inches wide with towers. What are recommended lengths for oars? I've been told everything from 8 to 9.5. The guy on the phone recommended 8.5. I am 5'8" tall and narrow build. Thanks

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## bray1720 (Jul 16, 2015)

The specs between the two


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## Roguelawyer (Apr 2, 2015)

FWIW I like 9 ft oars for both my 14 1/2 ' that I use to have and the 13' that I have now. I tried using some 8.5 ft oars of my brothers and it seemed like I could feel the weight difference. Then I used them on a multiday trip and found that I get better leverage with the longer 9 ft oar. I haven't used 9.5 footers so who knows, maybe I would like them even better.

BUT I use the same frame. Oar length will have to do with how high the lock is set above the water.

Does the place you are buying the gear from rent or have used stuff? Maybe they would let you try different lengths before the purchase.


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## Roguelawyer (Apr 2, 2015)

If the two rafts have the same warranty etc etc but the main diff is length and D-rings, I would go with the 14 footer. You can always glue more D-rings on a raft right?


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## carvedog (May 11, 2005)

For fishing I like bigger tubes for sure. And 9 foot oars. I would think.


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## bray1720 (Jul 16, 2015)

The warranties are the same, there is just the slight difference in tube diameter and width, and the extra 6 inches length. I was thinking 9 foot sounded better, so I will see about having them hold those for me instead. It doesn't sound like the type of place to have rentals or used equipment, but I do have friends around here with rafts and a place I have rented a raft several times. I could see what size oars they all use.

It didn't cross my mind to just add d-rings.


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## ColePowered (Apr 7, 2015)

What do you guys think about old Riken Boats from the 80s? How long is that glue rated to last? If well maintained and properly stored... how long is "forever"


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## bray1720 (Jul 16, 2015)

I wanted to say thanks again and share our new toy with everyone who helped me figure things out. We ended up going to the 14 ft, and I'm very glad you pushed me that way. Water isn't great right now, but we have had it out once and plan to float this weekend. I'm really looking forward to the water coming up again with the snow melt soon!


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## DrBigDog (Apr 15, 2009)

*Old rafts*

Greetings All. I'm way late on this thread, but I'll add a nickel's worth.
i helped a friend look for a 12-14' boat this summer and looked at several Avons. One (Scout I think) literally looked like it just came out of the box, as it had been garaged for many years. Some on this thread may recall that the fellow initially asked around $9000 for it, but later came down, though it was still a pricey. Several of the others were 80s vintage boats and had not been well taken care of. D-rings, handles, and re-furbishing/replacing valves are just tlc work, but when the material is truly worn to hell, you can't do much. One boat's material felt a bit like old sandpaper and not even a heavy bath of 303 would bring it back. I think the state of the hypalon or pvc is one key to look at. I've also seen poorly cared for pvc boats that had cracks in the material. As a few here have commented, wait/go for a bailer. Lots of commercial companies are cycling out boats as the season winds down, some of which are in reasonable shape.
Congratulations on your new boat. Looks great!
Cheers.


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## villagelightsmith (Feb 17, 2016)

IMHO there are Avons, and all the rest. DIB makes some hellacious strong boats if you want to go to war. The rest are just n exercise in depreciation/rental, selling and patching.


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

I have 2 avons, an adventurer and a Pro, both 80's vintage. Both in great shape, and at the end of the day, nothing handles like an Avon. The boat you're looking at has seen better days, they are asking a lot for it, and while there are some that like bucket boats, bailing it especially on a river that has continious rapids like the Ark, gets tiresome fast.


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