# Square tops and blade style



## GeoRon (Jun 24, 2015)

Tell us about your boat/frame and the type of boating you plan to do in the future.


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## Pinchecharlie (Jul 27, 2017)

Oh yeah! 156r fully done up for multi days wherever we can get on lol. Iam wanting to be a solid class 3 boater and that's about it. I would go on the grand canyon with an experienced group but have no desire to do gnarly rocky mountain class 4/5. I have my wife and my daughter/s in tow usually. We did 22 river nights last year mostly local rivers just camping. The boats done westwater and rogue and Smith and thats all the rivers I've done!!! I was 0-8 for permits this year!


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

So you did run the 9.5's on your 156R last year? Other than flex, did you like or not like the length?

Sawyer squaretops are more of a finesse oar than a "brute strength" oar. I wouldn't worry about the flex, you're not going to break them in normal use. The flex is good for your shoulders and you'll still love those oars in 20 years. Enjoy the balance. Too few people run or appreciate a good balanced oar.
Or buy some burly MX-G's and horse on them for 10 years. Then when your shoulders hate you, buy squaretops and learn to row with finesse. haha

As for blade size, the shoal cuts and the standard blades have a similar blade area. But a loaded 156R won't accelerate quickly and either one is going to slip a bit until you get the boat moving.


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## zcollier (Jan 1, 2004)

MT4Runner said:


> Or buy some burly MX-G's and horse on them for 10 years. Then when your shoulders hate you, buy squaretops and learn to row with finesse. haha


I'm a fan of the Sawyer MX-G with Dynelite blades. They are super stiff and durable.


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## Sawyer Paddles & Oars (Dec 22, 2020)

From your description, you've got a set of Dyno-X SquareTops, which are designed to have more flex than a "Standard" Dynelite SquareTop. Both have a laminated Douglas Fir core, but the Dyno-X is easier on the shoulders and elbows to row. The Standard Dynelite SquareTop is stiffer with a carbon fiber wrap. 






SAWYER SQUARETOP OAR


Sawyer Square Top Oar - perfect balance and extremely light swing weight make this wood and carbon fiber oar the best rowing oar around.



www.paddlesandoars.com





That said, I've rowed the Selway with my 13'6 raft and SquareTop Dyno-X Shoal Cuts, and guided anglers with them as well for years. Excellent swing weight and feel, but not everyone's choice for a big boat and Class III-V.

Derek


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## Pinchecharlie (Jul 27, 2017)

Yeah rowed the 9.5 whole season. Just felt like sometimes I skipped a blade over the water with stroke not being deep enough but could be the rest of set up. You know if I really needed power I was raising my hands and when I hook up they go sprrrrung and its a bit of a delay from stroke to input. All this is said being a novice for sure and a heavy boat lol. When I did zacks rouge row class there where times in a rapid I was allready late or off line and then it frustrated me and made me a bit nervous lol. Guess I just need to anticipate it . I've had both labrums sewed back on so I better take your advice on that! Sucks they cost so much you can't buy em for fun.


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## Pinchecharlie (Jul 27, 2017)

Don't see any model numbers?


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## Sawyer Paddles & Oars (Dec 22, 2020)

You've got a set of Dyno-X SquareTops! Try some varnish to get them spiffed up, and as a secret liquid Bees Wax and a soft cloth will cover up all of the cosmetic scratches on the carbon fiber. 






Sawyer Spar Varnish Kit


Sawyer Spar Varnish Kit - All the essentials for refinishing your wooden paddles and oars.



www.paddlesandoars.com





Derek


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

Pinchecharlie said:


> Just felt like sometimes I skipped a blade over the water with stroke not being deep enough but could be the rest of set up.


I'm gonna go way way way down the rabbit hole here, but you might try rowing without the oar rights for a weekend. They hold your blade dead vertical...which can allow just a bit of flutter when deep, or ventilation behind the blade and that skip up to the surface when shallow.

If you cant the blade just slightly (talking like roll a very tiny 1-2° back on the top edge when pulling) that makes the lower edge bite the water first...and clean green water from down low will roll across the face of the blade instead of air from the surface.

If you hold the blade vertical, the vortices shed off one side and then the other causing that flutter.





Watch the whole video...but there are vortices shedding off both sides of the paddle blade at 2:57. Canting it will pull your blade down, stop ventilation, and stop flutter since you only have the single vortex.
Go play on Bozeman pond or a Class 1 flatwater river to feel it.

yeah, a flexy oar will give you a delay between stroke and input. For an old guy on Class III that's what you want. If you're sendin' it on Class V, you want no delay and burly stiff oars that respond immediately.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

With no cant, you get those vortices rolling from one side to the other and get flutter. 
Here's a video:





I wish the videographer had shown the paddle blade with a cant and no flutter.


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## GeoRon (Jun 24, 2015)

Pinchecharlie said:


> Oh yeah! 156r fully done up for multi days wherever we can get on lol. Iam wanting to be a solid class 3 boater and that's about it. I would go on the grand canyon with an experienced group but have no desire to do gnarly rocky mountain class 4/5. I have my wife and my daughter/s in tow usually. We did 22 river nights last year mostly local rivers just camping. The boats done westwater and rogue and Smith and thats all the rivers I've done!!! I was 0-8 for permits this year!


If you like your oars and setup then that is all that matters. But, if as you say your oars feel sluggish, short and perhaps fragile then you might want to do something about it.

I vote with zcollier but when you say old guy, how are your shoulders. I love my Sawyer MX-G's but some people with shoulder issues don't like the absolute stiffness. I run with the Duramax blade on them but if price is not an issue go with the Dynalites. Next time I buy blades I'll go Dynalite. Oh, since you do mostly whitewater I don't suggest the narrow blades. Other people may have something to say about that.

There are other oars on the market. I used to run Cataracts but I didn't take care of them well enough to maintain their beauty.

What is your frame and oar lock center to center distance? That measure will help you decide to possibly go up to 10' oars. Ten foot is pretty regular on a 156r. Maybe other people have an opinion on that.

Twenty two river nights last year is doing pretty dang good. 

BTW, which state do you live in? The rivers that you mention suggest Utah, Oregon or Montana????


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## Pinchecharlie (Jul 27, 2017)

Thanks guys! I live in bozeman montana. So I row this boat with family most every weekend. Last year we did 5 days on the smith and dealt with some planning and packing issues lol. Then did another week on the north fork flathead (did better) I did a pay to play rowing clinic on the rogue with nwrc in that boat but had the luxury of going light cause dustin had to make my dinner (and hold my hand when I got upset)!!! Lol!! My daughter and I ran westwater with a group of guides who where training to be guides just by accident when we were in moab? It was low water but sketchy cause those guys where all cavalier and doing stuff to screw eachother up. I really didn't have the confidence on that trip but we made it down just fine but I was so worried about my kid and doing right in the river I didn't enjoy it really till we motored out. I still can't remember skull and that's bad!! After the rogue deal I felt alot better and I feel like without the kids I could go bigger. Iam allways a little shocked guys take little kids in big water but thats just me iam very protective of the little one. My older daughter (17) and I do a tandem ducky and we usually swim a few times a year in easy class 2/3. My rule is allways the right stretch of river at the right flow so iam kinda a buzz kill. The little one gets mad if I row away from any wave but she's not a great swimmer. We swam a bunch last year in faster current no rapids and we did a small class 2 swim too. Shes all smiles and yelling go go go till...she gets a breath full of river then...she ain't so tough lol . Trying to make it so so fun that the first scary swim won't end the river for them. We have good gear and a ok group and I've been running with some bigger boys some but they allways eye roll me lol.i have a little cat I rowed on our juicy section but no fam just solo. I did okish but this year iam feeling good about it just maybe not flood stage. I'll try the oars spinny and play around with my set up. Iam rowing off a dry box which sucks but with four on board is great for gear.


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## GeoRon (Jun 24, 2015)

Pinchecharlie said:


> Thanks guys! I live in bozeman montana. So I row this boat with family most every weekend. Last year we did 5 days on the smith and dealt with some planning and packing issues lol. Then did another week on the north fork flathead (did better) I did a pay to play rowing clinic on the rogue with nwrc in that boat but had the luxury of going light cause dustin had to make my dinner (and hold my hand when I got upset)!!! Lol!! My daughter and I ran westwater with a group of guides who where training to be guides just by accident when we were in moab? It was low water but sketchy cause those guys where all cavalier and doing stuff to screw eachother up. I really didn't have the confidence on that trip but we made it down just fine but I was so worried about my kid and doing right in the river I didn't enjoy it really till we motored out. I still can't remember skull and that's bad!! After the rogue deal I felt alot better and I feel like without the kids I could go bigger. Iam allways a little shocked guys take little kids in big water but thats just me iam very protective of the little one. My older daughter (17) and I do a tandem ducky and we usually swim a few times a year in easy class 2/3. My rule is allways the right stretch of river at the right flow so iam kinda a buzz kill. The little one gets mad if I row away from any wave but she's not a great swimmer. We swam a bunch last year in faster current no rapids and we did a small class 2 swim too. Shes all smiles and yelling go go go till...she gets a breath full of river then...she ain't so tough lol . Trying to make it so so fun that the first scary swim won't end the river for them. We have good gear and a ok group and I've been running with some bigger boys some but they allways eye roll me lol.i have a little cat I rowed on our juicy section but no fam just solo. I did okish but this year iam feeling good about it just maybe not flood stage. I'll try the oars spinny and play around with my set up. Iam rowing off a dry box which sucks but with four on board is great for gear.


You've been holding out on us. Pertaining to another thread, with a good group, I think you are definitely ready for Deso. Have fun.


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## GeoRon (Jun 24, 2015)

Pinchecharlie said:


> Yeah rowed the 9.5 whole season. Just felt like sometimes I skipped a blade over the water with stroke not being deep enough but could be the rest of set up. You know if I really needed power I was raising my hands and when I hook up they go sprrrrung and its a bit of a delay from stroke to input. All this is said being a novice for sure and a heavy boat lol. When I did zacks rouge row class there where times in a rapid I was allready late or off line and then it frustrated me and made me a bit nervous lol. Guess I just need to anticipate it . I've had both labrums sewed back on so I better take your advice on that! Sucks they cost so much you can't buy em for fun.


I reread this post. If you feel like your blade skipped over the water you likely need a 10' oar and may need to adjust your tower height. You may need to move your oars further out putting more weight on the blade. Going to 10' oars will help this also.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

Pinchecharlie said:


> Trying to make it so so fun that the first scary swim won't end the river for them.


That's THE WAY to boat with kids. Keep it up and enjoy the journey.
Don't get in a race to go bigger-better-faster-more. I did, and scared my kids away from kayaking. Now as older teenagers they are thinking river time with dad would be cool again, but we lost out on several good years together.

I loved Class IV and then hit Class V and got scared. Still enjoy the IV, but am now discovering just as much joy in I and II and watching the scenery float past.



> I did okish but this year iam feeling good about it just maybe not flood stage. I'll try the oars spinny and play around with my set up. Iam rowing off a dry box which sucks but with four on board is great for gear.


Fart around with the oars and feel them move in the water and feel them moving the boat. You can do that on I and II with lots of time and space. You never have time to sense that feedback on IV when the rapids are thundering in your ears and your heart is thundering in your chest!!

Enjoy the journey. Enjoy the learning curve. Don't get frustrated by what you can't do, or by what you see others doing. Be happy for what you have learned today that you were unable to do yesterday.


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## Pinchecharlie (Jul 27, 2017)

The frames 72 inches center to center of outside rails. Its a maybe two inches over center of tubes but I decided to run it cause thats what I had and didn't want to cut it down (lazy) .Yes nrs modular deal. The oar towers are super old and I can't remember what they are called but used to be nrs standard faire . Iam 53 yes old , 5 foot 5 140lbs fat lol!! Used to be a pro boxer and fought at 106!!! Err...my record had more numbers in the second column than first lol! Thats how I met my wife, she's a six time national champion and was an alternate for the London Olympics the first time woman got to participate in an Olympics in boxing. Shes sliwer but much much slicker than me, super hard to hit lol! She has a sneaky upper cut she throws like a weird jab she calls the skinny punch. Its a very annoying nose bleeder! Only fight in a ring under strict supervision!!


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