# Rec.gov results?



## goldcamp

Lottery Results Available February 6, 2015
The lottery drawing is completed in early February. Applicants will need to log into their profile at Recreation.gov to see the results of their lottery application(s). Email notices will be sent to all applicants, but occasionally may not reach your inbox, so be sure to log into your profile to see your results. Do not assume no email means no luck.

I'm champing at the bit to get the results too!


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## codycleve

yep. I had been checking today because the last two years they released them on feb fourth.. The site says results will be available starting feb 6th..


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## InflatableSteve

Is that for all Recreation.gov rivers?


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## David L

And, the website says the results for Lodore/Yampa will be posted by mid-Feb:

"The Lottery results will be available on Recreation.gov by Mon Feb 16 2015"


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## fruitafloater

*Feb. 6th? or 16th?*

Unless I'm missing something, I think the lottery results are on the 16th? Trust me, I hope I'm wrong. 

Attention: Dinosaur National Monument’s Yampa and Gates of Lodore, Green River Lottery 2015 is now closed.
Beginning February 16, 2015, applicants can check the results of the lottery by signing into their Recreation.gov account to see if they drew a launch date.


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## codycleve

four rivers lotto is the 6th. yampa is by the 16th


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## basinrafter

InflatableSteve said:


> Is that for all Recreation.gov rivers?


Nope - my Deso application gives me this message - 
The Lottery results will be displayed on the site by Sun Feb 15 2015. Please visit the site after the lottery execution.


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## codycleve

strike that starting the 16th on the yampa


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## goldcamp

So if I strike out on the 6th I can still hope for the 16th.


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## codycleve

yeah they like to drag it out and keep our hopes and dreams alive.. they are really getting good at slowly crushing out dreams and leaving us dissapointed.


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## Joe W

Salmon-Challis National Forest - News & Events 

Did anyone else notice this little gem of a message.


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## lhowemt

Joe W said:


> Salmon-Challis National Forest - News & Events
> 
> Did anyone else notice this little gem of a message.


That sucks! Not only did they let people in late, but they won permits AND now we know that they know the results and won't tell us until Friday. At least the latecomers didn't win the Selway. Oh well, Hopefully I will be happy that they didn't rerun it when I get my SUCCESSFUL emails!


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## lhowemt

I just wrote to both Recreation.gov and the USFS (link on the news release). They need to fix this, at least NOT give the permits to those latecomers and pass them on to someone else. Next in line, sub lottery, who cares. Just get them to someone who met the deadline. Grrrrrrr.


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## jpbay

Joe W said:


> Salmon-Challis National Forest - News & Events
> 
> Did anyone else notice this little gem of a message.


They file there taxes late too. So no worries the government will make it right.


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## Joe W

Latecomers just took 0.0775% of all Middle Permits and 1.5% of Hells Canyon Permits; yep that seems fair.


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## rivh2o

Talk about better odds, 5 out of 49 for the middle fork, a 10 percent chance of getting a permit when your a late applicant. I don't like it at all it sucks!


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## Rockgizmo

That sucks! If their still allowed to launch then the penalty should be no choice of camps during the round robin. 


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## cataraftgirl

What's so hard about voiding 92 late application winners, and letting the computer select 92 more winners from the legit applications. Seriously, how much longer would that take? Would it delay the process for maybe a day or two? I'm not sure what to think about the Forest Service....are they heros for publicly admitting that they screwed up, or idiots for admitting that they caught a mistake, did nothing to fix the mistake, and gave highly sought after permits to people whose applications were late. Yikes!!!!!


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## restrac2000

I am still confused how the recreation.gov portal allowed late entries to be submitted. And this is on top of them botching the San Juan lottery closure time as well. There should be a contingency in payment for private companies with government bids/contracts that mess up something as simple as a lottery. Sucks that the only people being held accountable are the general public who failed to win.

Phillip


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## glenn

They paid and the forms were open and the lottery had not yet taken place. I guess I don't see the big deal. Yes I'm in the lottery, no I wasn't late.


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## mania

I wholeheartedly agree with lhowemt and cataraftgirl. I submitted on Dec 1 because I had my act together and some johnny come lately will probably bump my application. what a messed up system.


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## Wavewrangler

Agreed. They should not be successful!
Did anyone get a response from rec.gov or usda?


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## cataraftgirl

glenn said:


> They paid and the forms were open and the lottery had not yet taken place. I guess I don't see the big deal. Yes I'm in the lottery, no I wasn't late.


Taking advantage of a loophole to gain something, or rewarding the person who uses a loophole to their advantage, or admitting a screw-up publicly, but not fixing it because it would be a hassle =The All American Way!

This was posted on the other permit screw-up thread....
"Not surprised. Last year Middle Fork permits were available on Rec.gov for the period between August 15 and September 15, salmon spawning season, after the March 15 deadline. It was shutdown fast, but I could have booked a permit for early Sept."

I'm sure the Forest Service would not have said "oops, our bad, here's your permit." Same thing should apply in this situation.


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## goldcamp

It does suck but lets not get too worked up. I am surprised so many of them won. What I think the forest service should do is simply issue extra permits in the numbers they gave away. 5 for the Snake, 3 for the Middle Fork, and 2 for the Main. Let the lucky winners take their first choices.


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## restrac2000

Luckily Active Outdoors is not going to participate in the upcoming bid for renewal on recreation.gov. I firmly believe a company just sold for $1 billion by an equity firm should be held accountable for their failures and how it affects citizens. We give them $6 to run a fair, functional and equitable lottery once a year. They just botched a noticeable percentage of those permits.

An interesting read on changes and turbulence at recreation.gov:

http://fcw.com/articles/2014/12/16/for-fun-and-profit.aspx


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## BrianK

They messed up, they owned it and now it's done. A couple people who applied a day late are going to get to go on a river trip - it's just not that big of a deal. Everyone should probably calm down a little bit. 

(I reserve the right to change my mind tomorrow if no one in my group wins a permit.)


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## David L

I got my application in on time. As long as the lottery winners were chosen entirely at random it doesn't bother me that some people in our river community were able to get their applications in after the deadline.

Yeah, it would have been better for me if there were fewer apps in the pool, if the late apps were not included, but I'm not bothered by it.


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## Anchorless

It should be pointed out that for most of the last two weeks of the lottery application, the Recreation.gov website was experiencing major technical difficulties and wasn't even letting people in to apply. I had to mess around on the site for an hour to get in, but I know many people who just gave up. Major the same issues with letting people apply on time are related to the issues that let some people apply late. Maybe these are the same people anyway. 

For what it's worth.


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## lhowemt

Anchorless said:


> It should be pointed out that for most of the last two weeks of the lottery application, the Recreation.gov website was experiencing major technical difficulties and wasn't even letting people in to apply. I had to mess around on the site for an hour to get in, but I know many people who just gave up. Major the same issues with letting people apply on time are related to the issues that let some people apply late. Maybe these are the same people anyway.
> 
> For what it's worth.


The notice states that ONE link remained available. It doesn't sound as if it was wide open so it seem unlikely to be related IMO. However you do have a an interesting point, I wasn't aware of those difficulties. I submitted my app about 3 days before the deadline and had no problem.


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## codycleve

well back to the actual results.. It seems the site is based off the east coast and the eastern time zone.. So should results be out at 10pm MT times today..


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## carvedog

Everyone is acting like someone gamed the system. It could be as simple as not knowing if the "deadline" was 12 EST or MST. If I clicked on a link and it said it was still open at 10:30 Pm MST and it said I could apply and I won a permit why should that be tossed out? Some of the newcomers in my boating "pool" still can't figure it out when to apply. 

And I always wait until the last minute to put in, so I can better evaluate snowpack and timing. 

So three people get on the Middle Fork and 2 on the Main. I don't even care about the Snake to be honest. Meanwhile 20 or thirty trips get cancelled in the spawning season and no one hardly bats an eye.


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## Wadeinthewater

carvedog said:


> So three people get on the Middle Fork and 2 on the Main. I don't even care about the Snake to be honest. Meanwhile 20 or thirty trips get cancelled in the spawning season and no one hardly bats an eye.


Like.


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## lhowemt

carvedog said:


> Everyone is acting like someone gamed the system. It could be as simple as not knowing if the "deadline" was 12 EST or MST. If I clicked on a link and it said it was still open at 10:30 Pm MST and it said I could apply and I won a permit why should that be tossed out? Some of the newcomers in my boating "pool" still can't figure it out when to apply.
> 
> And I always wait until the last minute to put in, so I can better evaluate snowpack and timing.
> 
> So three people get on the Middle Fork and 2 on the Main. I don't even care about the Snake to be honest. Meanwhile 20 or thirty trips get cancelled in the spawning season and no one hardly bats an eye.


And last year they didn't even release a bunch of those late season dates on March 15, there immediately was a bunch of dates with x's. LAME. Just another recreation.gov screw up, so many stories of these contractors doing a poor job. I like the online system, but there needs to be more quality control and accountability on the contractors. Who knows how many screw ups they have that we never hear about.


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## restrac2000

Anchorless said:


> It should be pointed out that for most of the last two weeks of the lottery application, the Recreation.gov website was experiencing major technical difficulties and wasn't even letting people in to apply. I had to mess around on the site for an hour to get in, but I know many people who just gave up. Major the same issues with letting people apply on time are related to the issues that let some people apply late. Maybe these are the same people anyway.
> 
> For what it's worth.


That is just more reason for us to vocalize our complaints the interagency committee that manages recreation.gov in my book. Active Outdoors was paid $34 million to run a basic functional system and should be held financially accountable when those parameters are not met. On top of it they get the $6 from every transaction, wether that be campground reservations or lottery applications. Why should we be paying them for a faulty system? 

And to be clear....I am not emotionally upset but critical of how our public lands are managed by private enterprises. When profit is involved in this way the product/service I receive needs to be fair and properly managed. $6 may not seem like a lot to some people but many of us end up with $50+ in application fees which is a major part of some our budgets, considering we either don't win anything or then end up with per person fees for the permit won. Those fees should at least supply us with some faith in a reliable and fair system.

Phillip


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## lhowemt

restrac2000 said:


> And to be clear....I am not emotionally upset but critical of how our public lands are managed by private enterprises.


Hey it's OK to be emotional. Nothing wrong with that! :wink:


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## ag3dw

Wasn't the lottery contracted out to a private co? Hum...


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## Schutzie

ag3dw said:


> Wasn't the lottery contracted out to a private co? Hum...


Schutzie thinks it was the same bunch who rolled out Obama Care

And before anyone fires back; I'm just poking a little good natured fun, keep your jammies on


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## avondan

Given the management of this system, I'm glad they are not trying to keep track of preference points from year to year...


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## TOMATS52

*Eminence grise?*

Whaaaait a sec here. This could be just the beginning of some government-wide conspiracy to edge out some fun-loving river rats and give rise to phantasmagorical Bilderberg rituals on the MFSR at designated times of THEIR choosing (moon phase probably). Pretty sneaky of the illuminati to do their evil in the wee hours of the night but that's their usual M.O. from what undisclosed sources tell me. Those poor hypnotized RecGov minions, I wonder if they truly know the death-eaters have warped the time center in their brains. They probably don't even remember leaving the applications open all that extra time! Computer glitch my eye! 

That or sh**t just happens and we should just float on and forget it.


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## jamesthomas

no shit, Avandon,


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## jamesthomas

And no shit Phillip also.


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## BlueTurf

Is it a problem? Yes. Should it be fixed? Absolutely. But I'm with those who don't think it's a big deal. 

I work in software development and I got to thinking about this last night. Keeping in mind I know nothing about the company that runs recreation.gov, this could have been fixed. By fixed I mean the late applicants removed from the pool. You would basically have to re-run the lottery from the moment the first one of the late applicants was drawn. There are couple ways you could do it but I would call it moderate complexity and you would need to test the crap out of the solution.

I'm pretty sure it would delay the notifications by about a week. Since it's such a small population I'm fine with just running with it. Just my opinion.


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## codycleve

So results in 39 minutes? 



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## restrac2000

so I hear....definitely learning a watched pot doesn't boil as I have been hitting refresh constantly hoping the "by friday" meant sooner.


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## BlueTurf

From: Salmon-Challis National Forest - Recreation Passes & Permits


"The lottery will run on February 1st, and results will be posted on or about Feb. 6th to the applicant's account profile in Recreation.gov."


I read that as they could come out anytime today (2/6/15) or even not today at all. The last couple of years the emails have come out between 5 and 8 AM from looking at my old emails. 

I'm chomping at the bit too.


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## restrac2000

unsuccessful...they went live at midnight eastern


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## codycleve

Unsuccessful

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## oarframe

Darn foiled again


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## cmharris

*No luck*

3 people all unsuccessful.


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## BlueTurf

Skunked.


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## slamkal

*DENIED*


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## Joe W

Unsuccessful for another year.


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## AirEms

Winner, Winner, Middle Fork Salmon Dinner!!! A late one though... July 24


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## Junk Show Tours

AirEms said:


> Winner, Winner, Middle Fork Salmon Dinner!!! A late one though... July 2
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 4


That's my birthday if you're looking for people to join you  

My Four Rivers entry was unsuccessful, but my Dinosaur entry shows no results yet, does that run later?


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## codycleve

We have blanked across four rivers with ten people so far... should have applied late.. ten percent odds there

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## TriBri1

bupkis!


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## swiftwater15

*skunked*

skunked.


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## slamkal

AirEms said:


> Winner, Winner, Middle Fork Salmon Dinner!!! A late one though... July 24


 perfect time to go. pray for mild spring temps ...


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## Wavewrangler

Results are in. I was unsuccessful again this year.
This one really stings! Not that any of us would be guaranteed a permit if the latecomers were denied, but it still stings and is an outrage.


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## 90Duck

Holy shit, out of 5 I know so far got an August Snake and mid-June Selway. I was so used to seeing "unsuccessful' that I had to back out and log in again just to make sure what I was seeing was correct. 

Sorry to gloat. He he he.


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## duct tape

From Active Outdoors:

We are sorry to inform you that, due to our accidentally assigning your actual winning ticket to a late applicant (of which group inexplicably had ten times the normal acceptance rate), you were not successful in securing a reservation in the Four Rivers Lottery - Middle Fork of The Salmon River 2015.

Oh well, come on Green!!!

Also have a late season launch permit on the Middle Fork on Sept 6 so need more snow and a cool spring and summer!


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## cataraftgirl

Unsuccessful yet again......some Johnny Come Lately probably got my permit!!!!


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## Anchorless

Nada, nothing, nope.


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## JustinJam

*cancellations?*

0-4 this year. Does anyone know the process of trying to get a cancelled permit?


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## funrivers

How do you know? I logged into FU.gov and couldn't find any info.


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## lhowemt

duct tape said:


> From Active Outdoors:
> 
> We are sorry to inform you that, due to our accidentally assigning your actual winning ticket to a late applicant (of which group inexplicably had ten times the normal acceptance rate), you were not successful in securing a reservation in the Four Rivers Lottery - Middle Fork of The Salmon River 2015.


Me too! Those buggers! Damn. I guess I better go preseason.

Good god where is the quality control BEFORE they run the lottery? A simple query on app date should have prevented this.

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## Phil U.

Dang... Was hoping for beginner's luck...


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## the_dude

Nothing on the MFS for me. Still waiting on the rest of the group to chime in on their results.

Still holding out hope for Deso, the Juan, and Gates. Maybe one will come through.


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## funrivers

funrivers said:


> How do you know? I logged into FU.gov and couldn't find any info.


Found it! Skunked;(


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## jeporch

4 rivers results were out this morning. Seven of us applied for a MFS permt on July 8 and were all unsucessful. However. the site showed an available July 8 permit to be released at 10:00 (ET) this morning. It was picked up in 5 seconds after 10:00. I just don't understand how several people could apply for a date and a permit on that date go unfilled and put up for grabs. The computer must not look at each application!


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## lhowemt

jeporch said:


> 4 rivers results were out this morning. Seven of us applied for a MFS permt on July 8 and were all unsucessful. However. the site showed an available July 8 permit to be released at 10:00 (ET) this morning. It was picked up in 5 seconds after 10:00. I just don't understand how several people could apply for a date and a permit on that date go unfilled and put up for grabs. The computer must not look at each application!


WTF? Are you serious? Did you pick it up or did you just see it shown as available? Would have like to have gotten a screen shot of that.


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## restrac2000

Theoretically it could have already been cancelled but that seems unlikely. Who applies for a prime MF and then cancels in 24 hours of original notice? Unconfirmed permits should not go live until March 15th. 

Another glitch? 

To be honest I wish they did follow-up lotteries like GCNP does. The cancellation system on recreation dot gov takes too much work and luck to keep an eye on. Notify us, put our name in a hat and then may the luckiest person win. 

Phillip


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## PBR62

No luck this year. Maybe headed east to Maine.


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## davecosnowboarder

Who won the selway? Need a boater?


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## David L

With all you denied folks that must mean that I'm the winner! I'm going to go look and claim my prize.

Checking.....checking.....checking.....

What??!! Unsuccessful?? How can that be?


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## jeporch

lhowemt said:


> WTF? Are you serious? Did you pick it up or did you just see it shown as available? Would have like to have gotten a screen shot of that.


Apparently the 4 individual rivers check each permit after the lottery is run. The permit on July 8 was voided because the winner was on the "No Show" (3 year penalty) list from previous years. There is no follow up lottery. Permit was just put up for grabs. It was shown "Available" for several hours before being open "BOOK" at 7:00AM (pacific). There appears to be many people out there that understand these things. It was picked up in under 5 seconds!


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## davecosnowboarder

To clarify I am looking to join a trip. 


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## restrac2000

jeporch said:


> Apparently the 4 individual rivers check each permit after the lottery is run. The permit on July 8 was voided because the winner was on the "No Show" (3 year penalty) list from previous years. There is no follow up lottery. Permit was just put up for grabs. It was shown "Available" for several hours before being open "BOOK" at 7:00AM (pacific). There appears to be many people out there that understand these things. It was picked up in under 5 seconds!


Seriously? That is just another stick on the fire. It wouldn't be that hard to quality control entries as they come in so all entries are legitimate before running the lottery. Basically that one no-show application affected the entire MF lottery as it would have led to a cascade of different results if they got their 1st-3rd pick illegitimately. Running QC on the tail end is just incompetent.

Phillip


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## Whetstone

:-? 8 of us skunked on 4 Rivers. I seems we are in good company though.


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## fiya79

My first fail in a long time. I'm usually super lucky. It has run out. 

Now to turn to the giant circle of friends.


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## TOMATS52

*No Joy*

No joy for 4 of us on the Selway, MFSR and Main....


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## lhowemt

jeporch said:


> Apparently the 4 individual rivers check each permit after the lottery is run. The permit on July 8 was voided because the winner was on the "No Show" (3 year penalty) list from previous years. There is no follow up lottery. Permit was just put up for grabs. It was shown "Available" for several hours before being open "BOOK" at 7:00AM (pacific). There appears to be many people out there that understand these things. It was picked up in under 5 seconds!


Another screw up by Rec.gov! Why can't they query this crap BEFORE they run the lottery! If it wasn't given, it should be then held until March 15 when the rules say they will release unclaimed. WTF! They just make this shit up as they go along.


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## John_in_Loveland

*Good River Karma*

Not sure what I did this year...maybe my clean living. Wife won a 7/4 Yampa, I won a 7/5 Yampa and a 7/26 Main.

Now decision time


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## dfresh

John_in_Loveland said:


> Not sure what I did this year...maybe my clean living. Wife won a 7/4 Yampa, I won a 7/5 Yampa and a 7/26 Main.
> 
> Now decision time


You already found out that you got a Yamp permit??????
When I log in, its still saying that results wont be available till the 16th.


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## John_in_Loveland

*Misread Rec.gov*



dfresh said:


> You already found out that you got a Yamp permit??????
> When I log in, its still saying that results wont be available till the 16th.


It looks like I misread this. It said payment confirmed for both the Main and Yampa but I didn't see that one said awarded and the other said entered

My mistake


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## mason29

Yeah!! Middle fork! My 4th pick August 3rd. Praying for snow. 


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## Tamaramaui

skunked again...

Anybody needing an extra fun girl to join your team??? I know the multi day regime, from prep and packing, to camp set up (groovers, food details, team playing), to rowing and swift water rescue. Did I mention I'm fun to have in the gang? My schedule is very flexible...Looking for MFS, Main Salmon, Selway...


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## rivh2o

*SCREWED AGAIN*

strike one on the middle fork somebody (rec.gov) threw a screw ball my way. 2 more chances on the Yampa And Deso, but I not holding my breath on the Yampa never got a permit in 29years!


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## Rockgizmo

Just wondering how many people got an email from Rec.gov about the lottery. I logged on to find out, but never got the no dice email


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## restrac2000

Rockgizmo said:


> Just wondering how many people got an email from Rec.gov about the lottery. I logged on to find out, but never got the no dice email


No email, don't believe they have ever sent me one for the lotteries but I have never won on their system. Or ever. Thank the mighty cheesus for lucky friends.

Phillip


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## 90Duck

Rockgizmo said:


> Just wondering how many people got an email from Rec.gov about the lottery. I logged on to find out, but never got the no dice email


I had an "awarded", but had to log in to find it out. In past years there has been an email win or lose, but it seems like it follows several days after they post the results.


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## Rockgizmo

restrac2000 said:


> Thank the mighty cheesus for lucky friends.
> 
> 
> 
> Phillip



Agreed! 



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## Tamaramaui

Yes. I look it up on the day they release the info. Sadly all "unsuccessful" for me and my group. Then I get the email a few days later. Kinda like rubbing salt in the wound. 


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## DesertRatonIce

Denied on MFS. I'm 0-2. Lost on the salt as well. I'm not holding my breath for deso cause things run in 3 but who knows.


Woke up this morning at 10:13.


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## Gardenvalleykayaker

jeporch said:


> 4 rivers results were out this morning. Seven of us applied for a MFS permt on July 8 and were all unsucessful. However. the site showed an available July 8 permit to be released at 10:00 (ET) this morning. It was picked up in 5 seconds after 10:00. I just don't understand how several people could apply for a date and a permit on that date go unfilled and put up for grabs. The computer must not look at each application!



Hey Jeporch,

My group applied for the July 8th too, I don't get why it doesn't go to someone who had it as a first through fourth choice?!! How could it have been available? I was trying this morning too, but no luck.

My lucky neighbor won a June 18th mf though! He won July Selway last year, it was amazing!!! We didn't see a single soul for five days. 

Anyway, something definitely seems off with the July 8th issue. 

Let me know what you think.


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## tteton

unsuccessful! its not okay that late applicants won permits. At least I have a late MFS permit already. Sept 4, 2015. fishing anyone?


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## cataraftgirl

tteton said:


> unsuccessful! its not okay that late applicants won permits. At least I have a late MFS permit already. Sept 4, 2015. fishing anyone?


We launch Sept. 5th from Indian Creek. Maybe we'll see you on the Rio. A bunch of green Maravias and a bright red Sotar. We took some Florida boys last Sept. and they had a blast fishing.


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## duct tape

cataraftgirl said:


> We launch Sept. 5th from Indian Creek. Maybe we'll see you on the Rio. A bunch of green Maravias and a bright red Sotar. We took some Florida boys last Sept. and they had a blast fishing.


My permit is for Sept 6, but in thinking we may try to get down fron Boundary Ck.


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## FatmanZ

Pull a MFS permit, only 2nd time in 20 years of applying for all four rivers. First lottery draw was 11 years ago. Oddly enough I was awarded the fourth choice launch date, mid Aug when odds were a bit better than July. Top down, packing light. Nice solitude for the first two days on the late season launches from Boundary. Worth the extra effort and packing light. 

Cheers!


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## Sleepless

Pulled a Main Salmon for Aug 24th! First time I've ever won!


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## duct tape

Good to see some buzzards getting on! Most people here are good people (although I generally think that's true for just about everyone I meet on a river). Congrats and enjoy your spring planning. The anticipation for me was "almost" as much fun as the trip.


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## El Flaco

Skunked for the San Juan


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## Whetstone

Sleepless said:


> Pulled a Main Salmon for Aug 24th! First time I've ever won!


Congrats Sleepless. Hope you have a great trip.


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## the_dude

Picked up a MFS cancellation yesterday with a launch date of June 25th. Also got notification this morning that I hit the San Juan for June 1st. Now I have to figure out how I can do both trips.


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## DesertRatonIce

No good on the San windy


Woke up this morning at 10:13.


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## Whetstone

the_dude said:


> Picked up a MFS cancellation yesterday with a launch date of June 25th. Also got notification this morning that I hit the San Juan for June 1st. Now I have to figure out how I can do both trips.


What can I do to help make your MSF trip workout (and earn a spot for my boat and I). We are at your service.  Groover stowage, Mixologist, Dish washer,  Pre or post float accomidations in Idaho  Just sayin.


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## tmacc

Sleepless said:


> Pulled a Main Salmon for Aug 24th! First time I've ever won!


We pulled that date a couple years ago and it was a stellar week on the river. Sunny the whole trip. Rained one afternoon for an hour or so. Have a great trip!


Then there was last year. Pulled a 8/14 and it rained for days. Hell, even a rainy day on the river is a good day.


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## tmacc

the_dude,

No question which one I'd do.  unless the SJ is family time or something.


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## Gardenvalleykayaker

Looking for the person who won Main Salmon Launch between June 23-June 26. Have a MF Salmon prior to that and am hoping to potentially combine trips for a MF/Main epic back to back float. Have done both trips multiple times, live in Idaho and am able to do much of the legwork on meal planning, shopping, etc. 


Sent from my iPhone using Mountain Buzz


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## Whetstone

Struck out on Deso. Come on Yampa!!! 


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## Powdawg

*Lovin' permit season!*

O fer 6. No Big Deal...right! No, San Juan, Deso, Selway, Salmon, Yampa, Gates


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## duct tape

Wife and I 0 for 4 on Salmon and Lodore.


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## DesertRatonIce

Did anybody win all their permits they applied for?


Woke up this morning at 10:13.


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## el-duderino

Can anyone shed light on what an "X" date not available really mean on the rec.gov site? Will it be released in the future???


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## InflatableSteve

el-duderino said:


> Can anyone shed light on what an "X" date not available really mean on the rec.gov site? Will it be released in the future???



I think they only allow so many applications for each date. If they fill them all before the end of the application period, then it gets an X. I am not positive on that since I am new to the system as well. I am sure someone else will chime in.


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## cataraftgirl

el-duderino said:


> Can anyone shed light on what an "X" date not available really mean on the rec.gov site? Will it be released in the future???


What river are you looking at?


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## BlueTurf

I'm just guessing here but this is what the legend says:

Legend

A: Available for online reservation (click to book entry date)
L: Accepting Lottery Application (click to apply for the lottery)
W: Available at the Facility
R: Reserved
C: Closed
X: Not available


So X means not available. If you go out far enough on rec dot gov for Hells you start seeing X's. You also see this:

Notice:
SELF-ISSUE RIVER PERMITS are required for the entire river corridor during the Secondary season. This season begins September 11th through the Thursday proceeding Memorial day each year. Self issue permits are available at each portal and the same rules apply as during the Primary season. Party size cannot exceed 8 craft or 24 people. Human waste must be carried out. All conditions of use are listed on the back of each permit. Please refer to them before completing your permit and launching your float trip.

So I'm going with X's mean you can't get a permit on rec dot gov for that river on that day. I guess there could be different reasons for not getting permits on different rivers like no water or fish spawning or whatever. For Hells there is no need because you can self issue your permit.


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## restrac2000

el-duderino said:


> Can anyone shed light on what an "X" date not available really mean on the rec.gov site? Will it be released in the future???


Depends on the river.

The San Juan: if its dates after mid-April but not part of the high use season lottery than they will be released after March 16th.

Deso: each X will have a number that should correspond to the available permits cancelled or not confirmed from the lottery. Those will be released in March as well.

Selway: Post permit season and self-registration, unlimited availability. 

Middle Fork: I believe some of the dates will be X-ed out and unavailable during the spawning season and from cancellations.

Phillip


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## el-duderino

Looking at Deso. This is what I'm wondering about.


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## el-duderino

Right on, thanks Phillip.


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