# pending government shutdown....



## El Flaco (Nov 5, 2003)

It wouldn't surprise me if those offices were closed - BLM and USFS aren't exactly high on the list of important functions of government. That also means that the rangers would be furloughed and facilities (including boat ramps) would be closed as well.The '95 shutdown furloughed 800,000 federal workers. If they're willing to stop folks from getting passports and processing tax returns, then you can bet Ranger Rick is taking a vacation.

But they'll get probably something passed, and if there is a shutdown it would more than likely be for just a few days.


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## BarryDingle (Mar 13, 2008)

Its pretty frustrating to say the least...

It means my yampa trip next week is in serious limbo. And them voting on a week extension just adds even more variables to my trip.....now I (if they give it a week) can put-on....but whose to say that the gov won't shutdown while I'm on the river.....leaving all of our cars behind locked gates(unshuttleable) and shit-outve-luck at the takeout. Fuuuuck.....


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## kevdog (Jun 7, 2007)

Bring Boltcutters....


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## bvwp1 (Oct 27, 2003)

I heard on NPR this AM, that a shutdown could close areas like the Grand Canyon. This did happen in 1995, when permits and trips in the canyon where all canceled. The report said it may or may not happen, just depends on the direction our NP and other areas get from the gov. Could be a very frustrating season for some to say the least. Or nothing may happen at all and it is business as usual.


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## Fallingup (Feb 27, 2010)

It does depend on the NPs and what employees are deemed "essential" and "non-essential". Those who are essential (irs, and post office etc. employees) will be required to show up for work without pay to run those offices and then will be paid once the budget is current. Those "non-essential" employees will be furloughed and will be sent home until further notice. Those employees may be the ones running the parks and they will shut their doors.
In 95 when we had a shut down, they closed like 300 Parks for a week.
I heard that permit holders for the Grand will be re-issued if any launch dates are in jeapardy though.

I think its important for us to just see how it plays out. 1 week of chaos in some of these areas could prove detrimental, I would hate to see people just doing what they want, gate cutters, trash, whatever.


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## Lin3Dawg (Jan 16, 2011)

Fallingup said:


> I think its important for us to just see how it plays out. 1 week of chaos in some of these areas could prove detrimental, I would hate to see people just doing what they want, gate cutters, trash, whatever.


So if the Gov. shuts down. Does this mean that I work tax free during the shut down. I seriously doubt it. It's our tax dollars that fund out national parks and keep the country going. Times like this are when we the people need to make a stand and say we are not going to put up with the childish behavior from elected politicians. If our NP's are where it needs to happen then so be it. In the end this is a free country. When they say no, I say watch me.


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## Junk Show Tours (Mar 11, 2008)

Fallingup said:


> I heard that permit holders for the Grand will be re-issued if any launch dates are in jeapardy though.


Can you provide anymore info about this? As the lottery has been ran for this year and 2012, does this mean that even if they do re-issue permits that I'll have to wait until 2013?


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## ecarlson972 (Apr 24, 2007)

Lin3Dawg said:


> So if the Gov. shuts down. Does this mean that I work tax free during the shut down. I seriously doubt it. It's our tax dollars that fund out national parks and keep the country going. Times like this are when we the people need to make a stand and say we are not going to put up with the childish behavior from elected politicians. If our NP's are where it needs to happen then so be it. In the end this is a free country. When they say no, I say watch me.


 
Well said!!


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## Fallingup (Feb 27, 2010)

Paddle Iraq said:


> Can you provide anymore info about this? As the lottery has been ran for this year and 2012, does this mean that even if they do re-issue permits that I'll have to wait until 2013?


There is no other way that I can see that they could re-issue unless they waited till 2013.


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## skipowpow (Mar 1, 2011)

Interesting that April 16th - 24th is National Park Week or "Fee Free" week.

U.S. National Park Service Free Entrance Days in the National Parks


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## Lin3Dawg (Jan 16, 2011)

So I was thinking about this "shut-down". This may be the best opportunity to run a river I have been wanting to run. Anyone ever thought of running the Grand Canyon of the Yellowstone? It's a federal law that keeps it closed. Well if the federal government is closed, do those laws still apply? Combined with the lower amount of park rangers in the park. One wouldn't have to be so stealthy about going in there. 

Anyone, anyone, Bueller?


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## Andy H. (Oct 13, 2003)

Lin3Dawg said:


> Well if the federal government is closed, do those laws still apply? Combined with the lower amount of park rangers in the park. One wouldn't have to be so stealthy about going in there.


I hate to disappoint you but....

Yes, the laws will still apply, and law enforcement personnel are considered "essential personnel" or something like that. This means they will NOT be at home watching Oprah and eating bon bons while you're boating on closed or permit-only rivers.


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## Cookie (Mar 5, 2011)

Shit! I am supposed to launch on the Grand on the 19th!  We just called the GC river office and they said that if the shutdown happens they will stop launching trips starting on Monday.


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## Phil U. (Feb 7, 2009)

Cookie said:


> Shit! I am supposed to launch on the Grand on the 19th!  We just called the GC river office and they said that if the shutdown happens they will stop launching trips starting on Monday.


Man, that is BS! Last time they shut it down we were on a family trip that included going to DC to see *our* government buildings etc. The place was closed, we were pissed. Never got the kids back there...


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## idahofloater (Feb 23, 2011)

Lin3Dawg said:


> So if the Gov. shuts down. Does this mean that I work tax free during the shut down. I seriously doubt it. It's our tax dollars that fund out national parks and keep the country going. Times like this are when we the people need to make a stand and say we are not going to put up with the childish behavior from elected politicians. If our NP's are where it needs to happen then so be it. In the end this is a free country. When they say no, I say watch me.


^^agreed^^


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## idahofloater (Feb 23, 2011)

Lin3Dawg said:


> So I was thinking about this "shut-down". This may be the best opportunity to run a river I have been wanting to run. Anyone ever thought of running the Grand Canyon of the Yellowstone? It's a federal law that keeps it closed. Well if the federal government is closed, do those laws still apply? Combined with the lower amount of park rangers in the park. One wouldn't have to be so stealthy about going in there.
> 
> Anyone, anyone, Bueller?


That first drop is a big hit!!!


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## Andy H. (Oct 13, 2003)

Government shutdown ain't about the money. Its about this.

apparently our water and air are too clean and the internet may become too neutral.


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## Pcdc2 (Jan 24, 2011)

Andy H. said:


> Government shutdown ain't about the money. Its about this.
> 
> apparently our water and air are too clean and the internet may become too neutral.


Wow, that makes you feel warm and fuzzy doesn't it? When in a budget crisis, make sure to prohibit funding to anything that relates to protecting the environment.


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## dgosn (Sep 8, 2006)

Something tells me that DHS, the drug war, and other wars will continue to be paid for, and in full force.


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## Berg (May 6, 2007)

Do all those cuts equal to these two cuts. Correct me if my math is wrong.
Return estate tax to pre George W levels (34+billion /year)
Eliminate tax loopholes (80+billion/year). This tax could even be reduced with a substantial profit if it is enforced.


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## kevdog (Jun 7, 2007)

I'm so sick of our effing politicians. Washing no longer works for the middle-class, it works for powerful corporations and wealthy individuals. And no wonder the middle-class is being systematically destroyed... 

Let me know when you're ready for the pitchforks and the torches...


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## Jensjustduckie (Jun 29, 2007)

Well... RMNP will stay open

Larimer sheriff vows to keep Rocky Mountain National Park open - The Denver Post

I like our new Sheriff's attitude, kinda makes me glad I voted for him.


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## bobbuilds (May 12, 2007)

I just learned you either run shit or eat shit in this country. There are no openings for running shit, so i opted for the latter. you think the honeybadger gives a shit. we are done as a people, it is all about the individual. laws no longer apply, do what you want, they do.

evolution and kindness will always prevail, no matter how bad it gets. look at africa, they are happy. we can be just like.... wait.


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## JustinJam (Mar 18, 2009)

Wow. Thanks for the post Andy. 

Looks like a systematic dismantling of the EPA. Can anyone guess who is funding politicians campaigns?


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## glenn (May 13, 2009)

Lin3Dawg said:


> So I was thinking about this "shut-down". This may be the best opportunity to run a river I have been wanting to run. Anyone ever thought of running the Grand Canyon of the Yellowstone? It's a federal law that keeps it closed. Well if the federal government is closed, do those laws still apply? Combined with the lower amount of park rangers in the park. One wouldn't have to be so stealthy about going in there.
> 
> Anyone, anyone, Bueller?


The park isn't plowed out yet, but in theory this would be good idea. Only park rangers monitor this and if they are off duty... Maybe if you had enough sleds...

I'll help run shuttle and hold your bail money if it doesn't work out.


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## shua30 (Feb 21, 2008)

Jensjustduckie said:


> Well... RMNP will stay open
> 
> Larimer sheriff vows to keep Rocky Mountain National Park open - The Denver Post
> 
> I like our new Sheriff's attitude, kinda makes me glad I voted for him.


I don't think he has a say or power over a park shutdown, but I'm glad your glad.


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## TakemetotheRiver (Oct 4, 2007)

Wait a minute. Aren't National parks designated as such to protect the area from development and ensure access to the public? Sending the rangers home does not negate that basic principal. Just because they aren't there, doesn't mean they should be able to keep us out of our public places (if permits have already been awarded, etc.) I have heard that Deso/Gray and some other rivers have said it will be "proceed at your own risk" rather than a shut down- which is as it should be. 

Just because the Gov't doesn't have their shit together, doesn't mean we don't. But isn't that the way it's always been?


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## melmorr (Feb 8, 2008)

Vehicles can be shuttled to Split Mt as long as it is before the shut down. We have a phone number of the law enforcement officer who will let vehicles out. Give us a call if you have questions.
Melanie Morrison
River Runners' Transport
1-800-930-7238


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## Andy H. (Oct 13, 2003)

*Westwater and Ruby Horsethief*

Just spoke with the ranger at BLM Moab who had sent the following out regarding the Westwater volunteer training meeting that had been scheduled tomorrow. I've bolded the important part, remember that currently _this is all preliminary_. The BLM River Office had previously told TLs that self registration would be allowed for permit holders, _this is no longer the case_.

Jennifer also stated that a shutdown could possibly also affect people floating Ruby HT as the Westwater ranger station will be closed if there's a shutdown. She's still waiting on guidance on this issue.

There will be a notice posted here once they know.

-AH



> From: [DELETED BY AH]
> Sent: Friday, April 08, 2011 10:14 AM
> Cc: [DELETED BY AH]
> Subject: possible government shut down...
> ...


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## Jensjustduckie (Jun 29, 2007)

shua30 said:


> I don't think he has a say or power over a park shutdown, but I'm glad your glad.


RMNP: Larimer sheriff can’t keep the park open, 4/8/2011 - Reporter-Herald, Loveland, Colo.

He did get shut down, his attitude toward the gov't shut down is much better than DC's though.


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## jasons (Sep 29, 2006)

*We could get off our asses*

All this means is put on the river anyways. You will have it all to yourself. After all, there is a permit system in Westwater to avoid over use and pay for the stupid jet boat that rescues people who swim. Its low water and cold, so both those are unnecessary at this time.

The whole reason private interest(typically republicans) advance their agenda and the people like us sit and take the shit dished out is well said by Rachel Maddow from MSNBC as she discusses the recent Wisconsin Teacher's union issue. Even the name says it well. Bake sales VS Billionares.
YouTube - OMG OMG Rachel Maddow- GOP goal- bake sales vs. billionaires Wisconsin Walker

Typically people interested in the environment are horrible at organizing, are unwilling to spend money for their cause (think of the last time you didn't even pay the $3 fee at the Gore takeout), and unwilling to donate their time to force change we want, but we will sit on the internet and bitch about all that is wrong. I'm sure some of us don't fit in this category, but my calendar sure isn't booked solid with activities that advance the sport for anyone but myself.

This is getting a bit off topic, but not completely.
The best we have is AWA. Most people who paddle don't contribute. They need lifetime members who contribute as much as they painfully can yearly. They are our lobbying organization. I don't know shit about lobbying, so I give money to AWA to do that for me. They hire a company, Patton Boggs, that specializes in lobbying. PB donates significant time for free. PB is always a >$50,000 per year In-Kind donor (donation of services vs cash) to AW. One of the founders of Patagonia, Yvon Chouinard is also big donor and I don't see him on the river. Its just the right thing to do. Most kayaking companies with any soul donate to AWA. Some fantastically.

Here is what AW is working on in the Rockies:
American Whitewater - WT Region

Here is their main CO initiative:
American Whitewater - Project - Colorado SWSI

Read up on what they have worked on and are working on. There are also other things they work on that aren't posted. I wish we could have a sticky beta spot on the Buzz that would allow us to post well thought out issues we would like AW to tackle, discuss their importance amongst ourselves then organize and find a way to make progress. In the mean time, the next best thing we can do is go to this link and inflict pain on yourself with a lifetime membership.
https://www.americanwhitewater.org/content/Membership/join-aw/


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## CBrown (Oct 28, 2004)

*Poach it. If the govt shuts down, whose to say...*

Last time the Feds shut down the govt., we were in college and poached Westwater for some kayaking cause the rangers were gone. The river belongs to all of us. Get ya some.


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## kevdog (Jun 7, 2007)

I think on Sat, I'm going to the Cisco put-in to Jet-Ski up Westwater, ...Then, on Sunday, I'm going to do some snowmobiling in Rocky Mountain National Park, practice high-siding on Longs Peak. Then after work on Monday, I'm gonna blast 100 glass beer bottles with my rifle in the MT. Evans Wilderness. Then off to go club some baby seals... A lack of parental supervision always gets me JAZZED...


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## FrankC (Jul 8, 2008)

Andy H. said:


> Government shutdown ain't about the money. Its about this.
> 
> apparently our water and air are too clean and the internet may become too neutral.


Don't worry. I'm sure industry will refrain from poluting the air and water without government regulation. They always have.:razz:


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## Riparian (Feb 7, 2009)

kevdog said:


> I think on Sat, I'm going to the Cisco put-in to Jet-Ski up Westwater, ...Then, on Sunday, I'm going to do some snowmobiling in Rocky Mountain National Park, practice high-siding on Longs Peak. Then after work on Monday, I'm gonna blast 100 glass beer bottles with my rifle in the MT. Evans Wilderness. Then off to go club some baby seals... A lack of parental supervision always gets me JAZZED...


OK, that was pretty damned funny.


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## skipowpow (Mar 1, 2011)

kevdog said:


> I think on Sat, I'm going to the Cisco put-in to Jet-Ski up Westwater, ...Then, on Sunday, I'm going to do some snowmobiling in Rocky Mountain National Park, practice high-siding on Longs Peak. Then after work on Monday, I'm gonna blast 100 glass beer bottles with my rifle in the MT. Evans Wilderness. Then off to go club some baby seals... A lack of parental supervision always gets me JAZZED...


Please post on the Trip Planner Forum.


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## BLM_Moab (Feb 25, 2011)

We appreciate your understanding in light of this 'interesting' situation... in the event of a government shut down please be advised that Westwater Canyon of the Colorado River (a designated special area) will be closed to both private and commercial river launches. Although we are still awaiting 'official' national guidance the draft language is very clear on this issue. In addition the BLM campgrounds and recreation facilities, including boat ramps will be closed. Please stay tuned to your favorite news outlet for updates...


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## mr. compassionate (Jan 13, 2006)

The worst part about this is these fuckjobs in Washington are getting paid but the troops aren't. I heard this on the news this a.m. and was verified by an Irag Vet I meant in the airport today. He had half his face blown off and was told yesterday he'd get 1/2 pay tomorrow.

It's time the public stops putting up with these knuckleheads.


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## Flohotter (Jun 22, 2010)

I can second the 1/2 Pay, our guys are getting dicked


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## Theophilus (Mar 11, 2008)

I work for the DoD and with Soldiers everyday. They will continue to do what Soldiers do, but this isn't exactly boosting their morale. That's especially true on the home front with the younger families. 

I guess this is what the folks at the Tea Party rally meant when they were passing out free "Freedom Wieners". These fools are clueless about how they are monkey wrenching the ongoing fight in IRQ and AFG. We have met the enemy and it is us. Of course these multimillionaires in Congress are willing to fore go their pay during this "crisis" 

Word of the week? ~ Buffoonery


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## treemanji (Jan 23, 2011)

This BS. My buddy has a dinosaur trip next week. Wonder what would happen if he launches. If the feds are on furlough and he paid for his permit then by all means he has every right to launch! WTF can they do.


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## jasons (Sep 29, 2006)

Great. The government even reads all our posts. This is why we need a private, invite only forum like other states have. I know she is just doing her job and probably a great person, but the spirt of this thread is the government isn't supposed to be doing their job. I'm pretty sure most people on permit runs will respect the river. If not, they will get punished by the river gods. Can the administrators delete her post?



BLM_Moab said:


> We appreciate your understanding in light of this 'interesting' situation... in the event of a government shut down please be advised that Westwater Canyon of the Colorado River (a designated special area) will be closed to both private and commercial river launches. Although we are still awaiting 'official' national guidance the draft language is very clear on this issue. In addition the BLM campgrounds and recreation facilities, including boat ramps will be closed. Please stay tuned to your favorite news outlet for updates...


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## BackCountry (Nov 22, 2009)

I have/had a launch permit for Westwater tomorrow (Saturday). Some of my crew is already at the Westwater ranger station after floating from Loma. Jennifer from the river office called and told me that Westwater canyon will be shut down if no budget agreement is met. The ranger told my crew at about 4:30 that the river is officially shut down. The ranger also stated that law enforcement officers will be waiting at the Cisco take out and be issuing $250/person fines for anyone launching during the shutdown. 

Jennifer did say that once they are back in the office she would be glad to reschedule my launch date to a date of my choosing later this summer and apologized for the inconvenience. For the group that just arrived at the put in from Montana that is little consolation.

I guess I can put some reasoning behind the shutdown. The proximity of Westwater to Grand Junction is probably behind this move. With no one to patrol or regulate the river, all the Grand Junction trash will hit the river and DESTROY it. Imagine the dirty diapers and feces strewn through the canyon for years to come from a weekend of no enforcement. You can see some of it when floating from Loma to Westwater - I pack out a lot of garbage every time I do that float. I especially love the piles of human feces in the camps and setting up my tent in a sandy spot only to have it stink of urine. I can only imagine what a free for all along that stretch of river would smell like...


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## Andy H. (Oct 13, 2003)

jasons said:


> Great. The government even reads all our posts. This is why we need a private, invite only forum like other states have. I know she is just doing her job and probably a great person, but the spirt of this thread is the government isn't supposed to be doing their job. I'm pretty sure most people on permit runs will respect the river. If not, they will get punished by the river gods. Can the administrators delete her post?


For the record, MountainBuzz has invited, and continues to encourage public outreach staff at managing agencies such as the BLM, AHRA, and Bureau of Reclamation to post on MountainBuzz. I think most folks will agree this is an improvement on the traditional methods of communicating with the public - like a notice in the classified section of some obscure local newspaper. You don't have to worry about them reading all our posts - they don't have time for that.

Andy H.
Mountain Buzz Partnership Director


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## Turner (Oct 10, 2006)

BackCountry said:


> ...law enforcement officers will be waiting at the Cisco take out and be issuing $250/person fines for anyone launching during the shutdown.


Like BC stated - not ALL federal employees will be furloughed on our public lands. The agencies’ law enforcement officers are considered essential positions and they will continue to work. I can imagine that these LEO’s will be watching the “closed” areas very closely during the shutdown.


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## BarryDingle (Mar 13, 2008)

treemanji said:


> This BS. My buddy has a dinosaur trip next week. Wonder what would happen if he launches. If the feds are on furlough and he paid for his permit then by all means he has every right to launch! WTF can they do.


Close the gates into deerlodge park. This blows big time,believe me. I'm supposed to leave for yampa tues but still don't know wtf I'm doin yet. Haven't made or bought food or anything yet,basically just sit and wait. I hope they get there shit togethr soon. Seems like westy rangers are acting a lil prematurely,no? Officially closing it already? What if they push back the deadline a week? 


So are you allowed to float,say, cisco to moab? Or is that off limits as well? This is gettin to be ri-goddamn-diculous....


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## CB Rob (Feb 13, 2010)

It could be a lot worse, imagine holding an April 9 grand permit.
Small businesses on the line in federal shutdown - Apr. 8, 2011 

I have a monday westwater trip planned.... we'll see.

What else is runnable and fun for a day run? maybe cross mtn, the piedra? any suggestions for raftable substitutes, on state land.


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## kennyv (Jan 4, 2009)

Hey, so I got the word that starting tomorrow the NPS will be posting rangers at all river access points in Canyonlands to prevent people from launching. In other words, Potash and Mineral are closed to launches until those republican dickheads can compromise (and on Planned Parenthood? really?). I'm guessing that even with a govt shutdown that congress will still be paid while the working folks in the govt get screwed. 

Sorry to spew so much, I'm just so tired of all this bipartisan political crap.


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## swimteam101 (Jul 1, 2008)

*Ass Clowns*

Looks like they worked it out after all


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## merritrd (Feb 1, 2010)

It appears a deal has been struck on a budget 30 minutes before the deadline.


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## mr. compassionate (Jan 13, 2006)

BackCountry said:


> I have/had a launch permit for Westwater tomorrow (Saturday). Some of my crew is already at the Westwater ranger station after floating from Loma. Jennifer from the river office called and told me that Westwater canyon will be shut down if no budget agreement is met. The ranger told my crew at about 4:30 that the river is officially shut down. The ranger also stated that law enforcement officers will be waiting at the Cisco take out and be issuing $250/person fines for anyone launching during the shutdown.
> 
> Jennifer did say that once they are back in the office she would be glad to reschedule my launch date to a date of my choosing later this summer and apologized for the inconvenience. For the group that just arrived at the put in from Montana that is little consolation.
> 
> I guess I can put some reasoning behind the shutdown. The proximity of Westwater to Grand Junction is probably behind this move. With no one to patrol or regulate the river, all the Grand Junction trash will hit the river and DESTROY it. Imagine the dirty diapers and feces strewn through the canyon for years to come from a weekend of no enforcement. You can see some of it when floating from Loma to Westwater - I pack out a lot of garbage every time I do that float. I especially love the piles of human feces in the camps and setting up my tent in a sandy spot only to have it stink of urine. I can only imagine what a free for all along that stretch of river would smell like...


Typical govt aholes/cops...they won't work to get people on the river with valid permits but will work to ticket people with valid permits-wtf!


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## mr. compassionate (Jan 13, 2006)

kennyv said:


> Hey, so I got the word that starting tomorrow the NPS will be posting rangers at all river access points in Canyonlands to prevent people from launching. In other words, Potash and Mineral are closed to launches until those republican dickheads can compromise (and on Planned Parenthood? really?). I'm guessing that even with a govt shutdown that congress will still be paid while the working folks in the govt get screwed.
> 
> Sorry to spew so much, I'm just so tired of all this bipartisan political crap.


Also don't forget the Democrat cocksuckers who put us in this situation!


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## Rich (Sep 14, 2006)

BarryDingle said:


> Close the gates into deerlodge park. This blows big time,believe me. I'm supposed to leave for yampa tues but still don't know wtf I'm doin yet. Haven't made or bought food or anything yet,basically just sit and wait. I hope they get there shit togethr soon. Seems like westy rangers are acting a lil prematurely,no? Officially closing it already? What if they push back the deadline a week?
> 
> 
> So are you allowed to float,say, cisco to moab? Or is that off limits as well? This is gettin to be ri-goddamn-diculous....


 
Float Cross Mountain Gorge in the late afternoon and float by Deerlodge at midnight, don't forget your permit.


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## BarryDingle (Mar 13, 2008)

Cross in my 18fter,at 3k? Hmmmm.....

Thank jeebus they came to somewhat of an agreement,full steam ahead tuesday. Now i just gotta deal with jerry's partying.


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## FrankC (Jul 8, 2008)

mr. compassionate said:


> The worst part about this is these fuckjobs in Washington are getting paid but the troops aren't. I heard this on the news this a.m. and was verified by an Irag Vet I meant in the airport today. He had half his face blown off and was told yesterday he'd get 1/2 pay tomorrow.
> 
> It's time the public stops putting up with these knuckleheads.


Yeah paid, govt health care and pensions to boot. But cops, teacher and firefighters are greedy thugs according to the republicans.


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