# when is WestWater most rowdy?



## rg5hole (May 24, 2007)

Friday and Saturday nights...


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## WestSlopeWW (Jun 26, 2008)

peak said:


> for some reason I remember hearing 10,000-20,000, but I don't have the experience to back it up. what are others' thoughts?


At about 18,000 most rapids beging wash out. My favorite runs are around 15,000 but lower levels bring out some other fun rapids (SITM, Bowling Alley, etc...)


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## gapers (Feb 14, 2004)

This has never been discussed. Ever.


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## peak (Apr 7, 2006)

gapers said:


> This has never been discussed. Ever.


 GAPER, you're beginning to rival CasperMike for assness. 
do you have an opinion on when WW is biggest?


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## kclowe (May 25, 2004)

If I remember right it gets ugly around 14,000 - 18,000. I think it calms down after that. However, down around 2500 it wasn't exactly tame. New rapids popped up and it was a hoot.

Kim


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## gapers (Feb 14, 2004)

If you wanna know,just ask. You run Skull left of center. 

And I was here long before Caspermike. If anything,CM is beginning to rival ME. Gape.


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## Jensjustduckie (Jun 29, 2007)

^^^ that is exactly what I thought too!


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## MustacheTheGauley (Feb 16, 2010)

The Terrible Teens (watch those eddy lines)


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## caseybailey (Mar 11, 2008)

I heard 100,000 looks down right terrifying. Had a friend who hiked in and peaked at it at that level ('82-'83?). People frequently talk about the "terrible teens", but I think the simple number of people wh run it at that level undercuts its "terribleness".


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## WestSlopeWW (Jun 26, 2008)

caseybailey said:


> I heard 100,000 looks down right terrifying.


Thats bullshit. Stop believing everything you've "heard". It has never been that high in our lifetimes. Though in 1984 it almost hit 70k, and imagine that was quite a site to see.

USGS Surface Water for USA: Peak Streamflow

What makes the teens terrible is that two people drowned in there last year. Tell me you wouldn't be terrified to flip in Funnel and swim to Last Chance avoiding the suck holes and mayhem...


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## caseybailey (Mar 11, 2008)

My bad. My buddy who hiked in did so with his dad when he was a kid, so it doesn't surprise me that he didn't know the exact flow. I didn't research it (as you did). This was all fireside chit-chat. 

I've heard (once again...heard) the term "terrible teens" for the last couple of decades (as long as I've been running westwater). For me personally, the idea that the term "terrible teens" came about last year as a result of a couple of drownings doesn't work. I can see however, that for you such an incident might seem to be the origination of the term. Either way it really doesn't matter that much. My condolences to those who were lost.



WestSlopeWW said:


> Thats bullshit. Stop believing everything you've "heard". It has never been that high in our lifetimes. Though in 1984 it almost hit 70k, and imagine that was quite a site to see.
> 
> USGS Surface Water for USA: Peak Streamflow
> 
> What makes the teens terrible is that two people drowned in there last year. Tell me you wouldn't be terrified to flip in Funnel and swim to Last Chance avoiding the suck holes and mayhem...


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## G-man (May 24, 2005)

It is the worst in the teens because of the combination of huge rapids not washing out yet (like they do above 19k), eddie lines, lack of anywhere to swim to if you end up in the water, and water temps in the spring. Every year people die in the teens flow. Usually the raft flipps in funnel (or another early rapid) and the people swim 5 to 6 miles of really strong cold rapids and do not have the energy to get to a boat (since the sides are all blocked by huge eddy lines) and end up being found after last chance.


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## kclowe (May 25, 2004)

F'in Funnel!!!!


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## Ken Vanatta (May 29, 2004)

Mid to upper teens. At 17,000 the whirlpools are horrendous. In my third month of kayaking and at that level I spent over a minute and a half underwater making the nearly half mile circuit underwater at Little D. Basically, signed off life and at the last second was released to the surface for a body grab by Nofzinger before I went down for lap two. Littfin had the same experience. Rattled, I swam again in Marble and didn't get out until the top Last Chance. I was fortunate to avoid the Room as Hebblewhite yelled "Oh Shit! Let go!". As he shot 20' up above me on the pillow wall I went. Fortunately, I flushed to the channel. Had it been into the Room the eddy fence was 4' and bloated dead cows and timber were circulating in it. Glad that worked out. 

I think 10,000 is about the easiest and things mellow again at 20,000+. Although, they probably kick bck up somewhere higher. However, the 100,000 cfs flows only happen in Cataract, not Westy.


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## hullflyer (Aug 22, 2004)

I totally agree with Ken, @ 17,000 there is wicked eddylines and rapids are still pretty defined although some stuff begins to wash. I ran it at that level in an Enigma squirt boat in '95 and was one of the scarier experiences of my kayaking career. Subbed out at Funnel and emerged at Surprise about a minute later. I was freaked. It was also about my third time in a squirt boat. So needless to say I was a bit underpredpared, even though I had just recently run the Grand. And had been in Taos the week before running all the stuff there.


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## Jensjustduckie (Jun 29, 2007)

Funnel kept a swimmer on one of our trips under for about 45seconds to a minute, he was already tired from swimming a half-mile and had inhaled water before he got to the surface. This was at flows of only 5000, funnel is nasty if you're out of your boat.


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## kazak4x4 (May 25, 2009)

If you are going to run that level, please be prepared. A dry suit and a perfectly adjusted life jacket will save your life. I am a believer in helmets as well after my flip last weekend. 

Last weekend we flipped at Surprise, we were in the water about 4-5 minutes, but everyone was in dry gear and we were comfortable with the temps. I enjoyed the extra flotation of the dry suit as well.

Higher than 18k flows even though the rapids are washed out the huge eddies and whirlpools appear. It kept me on my toes the whole way through. My knuckles were white by the time I got through Last Chance. My 16 foot boat was span at least 4 times during the float by a whirlpool about 20 feet in diameter, it was a sight to see.


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## Cutch (Nov 4, 2003)

I've run Westy a lot, and only know high flow ranges from a kayaker perspective. At 16k I felt the canyon was already completely flushed. We were dissapointed in the action in our playboats, until the strong eddy on river left 1/8mile below PS, and then we were stoked because we could mystery move our boats underneath each other, which was really cool. The rest was a giant flush and we spent most of the time squirting down the rapids (yes squirting, it was the late 90's). The most stacked and tall whitewater I recall is at a level around 11k. Powerful with tall waves and larger eddy currents. From a swimmers perspective I could see the argument for higher flows being more dangerous, but I think if you want rowdy whitewater, then 10k is more your number. If you want freestyle, stick to less than 6500.


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## Ken Vanatta (May 29, 2004)

Guess I need to get over there this year, Kyle. It's been years since there last, but I've probaby done it over 50 times. Westy's the only run I've done in every month of the year. From the kayker perspective, I recall about 2500 being the hoot. I don't remember what level rides in the tube at Big Hummer occur. Can you tell me? That is a fun level, too. 

I was thinking 10,000 was the in-between stage, maybe I'm wrong. At higher water it does fill in and flush, but the whirlies and the Room get merciless to new kayakers and rafters. I have seen the tubes on 16' rafts pulled under and spiraled down in the wave trains between the big drops. It can serve up surprises.

Cheers!


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## Rez072 (Apr 21, 2008)

*yea*

The teens are the rowdiest. Unless you manage to go in there at peak on a ridiculous year. I've heard stories about triple rigs going through in '97 at like 73,000 or something like that. So, I'm thinking that could be rowdy.


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## WestSlopeWW (Jun 26, 2008)

Rez072 said:


> The teens are the rowdiest. Unless you manage to go in there at peak on a ridiculous year. I've heard stories about triple rigs going through in '97 at like 73,000 or something like that. So, I'm thinking that could be rowdy.


73,000? Really? I've also heard stories of flying unicorns and topless mermaids handing out beer in the Room of Doom...

I'm not really trying to just be a prick, I'm just trying to stop some of the lies before people repeat them. Funny how much river stories get embellished ever time they are told.

We did actually run Westy in '97 at 33k a few days before it peaked at 37.5k. Other than Skull, all rapids were gone. It was one continuous train of V waves with giant pillows and whirlpools. It is much more enjoyable at lower flows.


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## Ken Vanatta (May 29, 2004)

WestSlopeWW said:


> We did actually run Westy in '97 at 33k a few days before it peaked at 37.5k. Other than Skull, all rapids were gone. It was one continuous train of V waves with giant pillows and whirlpools. It is much more enjoyable at lower flows.


Ditto that. I think maybe a low 40s happened maybe '83-'84. IMO kayaking Westy is possibly funnest in the 2500-4000 range. I need to get back over. It is a great place. I still am interested if anyone recalls what level the right side hole in Big Hummer forms a tube? It is super cool to side surf in the tube looking out the barrel as boats go by down the center. It's not often you can experience a Pipeline type surfing ride in kayaking.

Westy is fun! Wish it wasn't permitted. The early '80s was a blast to run over to anytime we wanted from Wasted State, keg and crew in the back of the truck passing the brews threw the rear pickup window and soaking up the sun. Great memories.

Cheers!


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## Rez072 (Apr 21, 2008)

You're right westslope. Like you said, it is funny how stories get embellished. Thanks for posting that highwater table from usgs. I guess it only got up into the 30s in '97. Like I said, it was a story, that I heard. None the less, I wonder what some of the features would be like at 30 gs or 69 gs. Probably mystery waves and increadible pillows and a run of about an hour.


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## kazak4x4 (May 25, 2009)

At 24k we got through the whole stretch (WW to Cisco) in 3.5 hours.


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## caseybailey (Mar 11, 2008)

Ken Vanatta said:


> Ditto that. I think maybe a low 40s happened maybe '83-'84.


1983 Jun. 27, 1983 15.02 62,100cfs 
1984 May 27, 1984 16.12 69,800cfs
Ken-
Maybe a few too many beers went through the window. 69,000 cfs? Awesome.

Back to his pipeline q...I too would like to know the answer. WesternSlope-you seem to know a bit about ol' Westy, do you happen to know that level?


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## WestSlopeWW (Jun 26, 2008)

caseybailey said:


> 1983 Jun. 27, 1983 15.02 62,100cfs
> 1984 May 27, 1984 16.12 69,800cfs
> Ken-
> Maybe a few too many beers went through the window. 69,000 cfs? Awesome.
> ...


Somewhere between 15,000 and 17,000 I think...


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## Ken Vanatta (May 29, 2004)

caseybailey said:


> 1983 Jun. 27, 1983 15.02 62,100cfs
> 1984 May 27, 1984 16.12 69,800cfs
> Ken-
> Maybe a few too many beers went through the window. 69,000 cfs? Awesome.


Yikes! Oh, yea. The odds are good that the goods were odd in the good 'ol days.  So, ... imagine the eddy fence at the Room and the pillow on the division wall? I recall stories of some friends that did Catarct at 100g. Now to think about 70g between the narrow walls of Westy. Whew! If anybody knows of anybody that did it, I would sure like to hear their story.

Cheers!


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