# Rags over the Arkansas River on National Public Radio



## okieboater (Oct 19, 2004)

It's finally made national news!

What got me was one commercial raft owner stated he was in favor of the project because his passengers would enjoy looking at the bottom of the cloth. Not the natural Big Horn Canyon scenes.

Not me!

I make the long drive to Salida / Buena Vista several times a year and have for many years.

I come to see the area not the bottom of some one's fabric awning.

For me, Pueblo and Canon City can say good bye to the gas and food stops I make there during the multiple years of construction. Due to traffic delays during all that heavy equipment work, I will probably come in via another route. If I come at all.


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## climbdenali (Apr 2, 2006)

Goodbye to your gas stops, hello food and gas stops for all the workers who come to the town and all the visitors who come for the exhibition. It's a short term project that will bring tons of money to an area that relies heavily on tourism.

The 'awnings' are short spans. You will still be able to see the beautiful scenery between the sections, plus the fabric is said to be "translucent." Furthermore, the scenery in Bighorn Sheep Canyon is far from natural with the beautiful highway on one side and the eye-catching railroad on the other.


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## steven (Apr 2, 2004)

this will be a serious boon for area businesses, and will be cool to see and experience, especially from a kayak.
I wonder how the pueblo and canon city convenience stores will make it without the snickers and water purchases by okie and other like-minded folk?


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## okieboater (Oct 19, 2004)

Gents, you make your point well.

I cannot dispute the fact that construction spending will probably offset the hundred bucks or so folks like me spend getting to Salida from points east several times a year. 

I hope the short term gains during construction are enough to take care of the long term damage to the area. I know the powers that be say the area will be restored after the project is completed. Consider me to be extremely cautious in believing this. Money seems to go away when clean up time comes.

It is your local river for sure, however it is much loved by a lot of us from outside the area who love it for what it is, roadside highway and RR tracks included.


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## upshitscreek (Oct 21, 2007)

okie, christo isn't exxon or BP or some other shitty company.and if they had a track record of shitting the bed after each exhibit they would never get to do another. 

and in all seriousness, i would like to hear if it does become some huge hassle for you in the construction phase.


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## MountainMedic (Apr 24, 2010)

Go take a look at rifle gap & tell me about this "artist" & his environmentaly sound track record.


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## shonuffkayak (Feb 2, 2011)

MountainMedic said:


> Go take a look at rifle gap & tell me about this "artist" & his environmentaly sound track record.


Did they not follow up on clean up? Did it Alter what it was from before? Im not familiar with rifle gap. My thoughts personally is if it can not be done within "leave no trace" it should not happen. Colorado is an amazing place that needs to be kept as close to natural as possible.


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## shonuffkayak (Feb 2, 2011)

Ok looked rifle gap up. Question is god why do that? From the pics I saw of rifle gap ,all it really is ian eye sore that takes away from the natural beauty around it.


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## caverdan (Aug 27, 2004)

If you like to float that section of river.....expect river closures and permits before and after construction.


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## Rich (Sep 14, 2006)

caverdan said:


> If you like to float that section of river.....expect river closures and permits before and after construction.


I am assuming river closures were addressed in the permitting proccess?
And is this above or below the Pinicale Rock put in for the Royal Gorge?


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## CBrown (Oct 28, 2004)

I looked at the Rifle Gap pics. I just don't get it. It seems ridiculous. What's the appeal?


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## swimteam101 (Jul 1, 2008)

*Joke*

What a joke. Two plus years of suffering with construction for 2 weeks of viewing. Take it to the S Platte in Denver.


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## cayo 2 (Apr 20, 2007)

Oh no no NIMBY [ So. Platte] if they put it from Union TO Oxford it would block views of the waste treatment facility,junkyard ,and cement plant.We will organize a group 'Sons of the U-Hole ' to fight this


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## cayo 2 (Apr 20, 2007)

Really though it would probably be better in an urban setting,like Pueblo or Denver.But if it goes it will be where they are planning it.Hope they follow through on the cleanup.The locals will need to hold their feet to the fire.


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## MountainMedic (Apr 24, 2010)

shonuffkayak said:


> Did they not follow up on clean up? Did it Alter what it was from before? Im not familiar with rifle gap. My thoughts personally is if it can not be done within "leave no trace" it should not happen. Colorado is an amazing place that needs to be kept as close to natural as possible.


It was only up for a very brief time before it failed, like most of his projects. There are still concrete slabs & chunks of jagged metal all over, on both sides.


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## Kendi (May 15, 2009)

Here's a website that has some info (incl pix) of the project. Supposedly the concrete left behind was at the request of the the landowners because they liked the Rifle Gap project so much they wanted a souviener. 

I realize art is in the eye of the beholder, but this is beyond words.


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## Jahve (Oct 31, 2003)

caverdan said:


> If you like to float that section of river.....expect river closures and permits before and after construction.


Dan knows what he is talking about here.

Gotta say that I am still enjoying christo's art - thanks for those who contribute ...

It is super funny that folks will argue back and forth over a decision that has been made - or if you are late to the party OTR has been approved and it going to happen. 

All the while the AHRA is working with christo's people behind the scenes (because the AHRA needs christo to pick up the bill). They are working together on a system to ration private boaters as dan said before, during, and after the project... The AHRA then plans to move this "system" christo pays for - to other sections to ration private boaters on the ARK. This is real...

I see it as kinda silly to argue back and forth about a decision that is already made while the AHRA slips a private boater rationing system that is funded by christo right under your nose..

Just a idea but if everyone who replies to these "christo" threads would instead take the time write the AHRA a letter and let them know that you dont want private boater rationing then you may be able to actually have a voice.

Doubtful many boaters will and in the meantime I will continue to enjoy the "art"..


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## okieboater (Oct 19, 2004)

Did not know about the AHRA deal, do you have an address and I will send a snail mail or email letter to them. I am retired and boat multiple times on the Ark every summer.


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## Cphilli (Jun 10, 2010)

Let me get this straight.... you are telling us that down the road, we will be required to pay for after-work sessions at the BV park or permits to run the numbers?


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## Jahve (Oct 31, 2003)

Okie not many folks know. I only post on these Christo threads is to let private boaters who may be effected a chance to voice their opinion.

The mailing address to the AHRA is. 

Arkansas Headwaters Rec Area
307 West Sackett Ave. 
Salida Co. 81201

I have let them know more than once that I never want to see private boaters rationed anywhere on the Ark and I hope some of you voice that opinion as well. In fact I would like to see the AHRA totally do away with the idea of private allocation or rationing. 

Play parks in BV and salida are outside of allocation so they will never be rationed. Private boaters only use about 20% of what we are allocated in the #'s so we are safe there.. Above and below the town of "exit" is where private boaters are on the verge of being rationed.


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## okieboater (Oct 19, 2004)

Thanks.

Letter in the mail box for pickup Monday.

I encourage others to do the same. A hand written note seems to get more attention than a email.

If private boaters do not speak up, the commercials, bureaucrats and special interest groups will be the input that gets the attention of the decision makers.


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## Climbingfool (Apr 29, 2007)

I may be wrong but I believe that Freemont and Chaffee County as well as the Colorado state patrol are yet to approve the project.


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## cayo 2 (Apr 20, 2007)

Not doubting your word Rdnek ,but are you sure it is a done deal? Just two weeks ago a suit was filed by DU students on behalf of ROAR,and the article dated 2/1/12 also mentioned what Climbingfool said about the counties.Was the suit dropped or resolved already or do you just have good info that it will fail ? I know you have your finger on the pulse of this way better than those of us commenting from the peanut gallery.


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## MountainMedic (Apr 24, 2010)

Climbingfool said:


> I may be wrong but I believe that Freemont and Chaffee County as well as the Colorado state patrol are yet to approve the project.


Can you expand on this?

Although I no longer have a direct "interest" in this, it is close to my heart. I spent 5 seasons as a CO Parks Officer, & consider the Ark my home.

I am not opposed to art. I am opposed to the imposition of ego on the name of art, and I am opposed to Co State Parks continued efforts to pave, electrify, & profit from the lands they were entrusted to hold & protect for future generations.

Shenanigans doesn't begin to describe what is going on down there.


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## loosemilk (May 10, 2005)

Who are you to judge someone's ego, what, with a couple blurbs you might have read? I live in the canyon. It's funny to see all the rec boaters come out in opposition or even the locals for that matter. When there's no "fire on the horizon" (especially from a frenchman) is anyone actively trying to better the landscape through stewardship of their own? Roar? How bout boaters from oklahoma leaving the river better than they found it? You take what you want, pay your four bucks and head home. Its what we all do.


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## okieboater (Oct 19, 2004)

Good point loosemilk!

Been coming to the ARK to float since the 80's. Now retired and coming to the area a lot more during the season.

No, I do not live in the area, wish I did. Other members of the family want to stay in our established home place.

You are correct I pay my AHRA fee, float the river and go home.

What I do and over the years all the people from TX, OK, MO, AR and KS plus others I have floated with have followed the rules, cleaned up what trash we find on the river, supported the BV - Salida - Canon City and Pueblo hotels, campgrounds, food service and as some one pointed out a bunch of convenience stores and grocery stores. What we took away was good memories and left foot prints at the put in and take outs plus over the years a a lot of money in local's pockets. You are right, visitors could do more and your suggestions as what we should do are appreciated.

By the way, I envy your ability to live in such a neat place. Hope Cristo's project leaves your home area as clean as he finds it. And, before the roadside and RR tracks comments start, clean is a relative term in today's world.


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## Osseous (Jan 13, 2012)

Good post, Okie- I agree completely. If you responsibly use a resource and contribute to the community in the process, you're playing by the rules. If you alter the resource- as this project will obviously do- then you're taking things to a new and different level. I don't see how obstructing the view of the natural beauty of an area is "art". It's spectacle- The art is already there in abundance.


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## climbdenali (Apr 2, 2006)

From the OTR Project Team:

Over The River update
In the months since BLM issued its Record of Decision (ROD), Christo and the Over The River team have been focused on the next phases of the project. This includes development of the Event Management Plans (EMP's) for the initial phases of the project (staging, anchor and Anchor Transition Frame installation), applying for the county permits and finalizing the installation schedule. As we have been working on these tasks, a couple of things have become increasingly apparent.

First, the public continues to express a strong desire to see the specifics of the EMP's that are being developed. These plans will include operational details that address the many traffic, safety and other issues that have been raised. Typically, this level of detail is not included in an EIS but is usually in an EMP that is developed after a ROD has been issued. That is the process we are following, but the EMP's for the initial installation phases won't be fully developed for some months. This leaves little time between completion of each phase of the EMP and the onset of each phase of installation. Christo believes that the public may not have sufficient time to understand this detailed information before installation begins. 

Second, the thoroughness of the BLM's environmental review process resulted in the ROD being issued several months later than originally planned. As a result, the BLM's Final EIS authorized 28 months for installation, but only 24 months remained. This timeframe also included many months where work was prohibited in certain areas or otherwise restricted because of mitigation measures designed to avoid sensitive wildlife and recreation seasons. The planning activities since the issuance of the ROD made it increasingly apparent that the remaining installation schedule of 24 months did not allow room for unpredictable events such as severe weather. 

For these reasons, Christo has decided to shift the Over The River exhibition date from early August 2014 to early August 2015. This adjustment will allow the EMP's for the initial project phases to be developed before installation begins so that the public will have time to better understand how traffic, safety and other issues will be addressed. It will also reinstate the full 28 month installation schedule, as included in the Final EIS. 

All other aspects of Over The River remain unchanged. The number of installation days remains the same and the comprehensive set of more than 100 mitigation measures will remain in place. The Fremont County, Chaffee County, Colorado Department of Transportation and Colorado State Patrol permitting processes will continue as planned.

Christo understands that this news may be disappointing to thousands of local residents and many thousands of art enthusiasts around the world who are looking forward to experiencing Over The River. Nonetheless, this change will result in a better informed public and an improved installation schedule. 

An overview of the permitting, installation, exhibition and removal schedule is available on the Over The River website.


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## mvhyde (Feb 3, 2004)

I somehow think there will be many problems for these idiots and their rags. Christo-ego is a major tool


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## okieboater (Oct 19, 2004)

"Second, the thoroughness of the BLM's environmental review process resulted in the ROD being issued several months later than originally planned."

Excerpt from the OTR post above. Almost fell out of my chair as I read this! I just do not see the BLM's review being very thorough, biased maybe, but not thorough.


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## Iraft (Jan 16, 2012)

some questions may be answered here...
overtheriverinfo.com


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## Iraft (Jan 16, 2012)

The other funny the thing that I just read was, that the more controversy the better the outcome of his projects. So, SShhhhhhhhuuuuuuuuuuuuuuSSSSSHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!


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## Phil U. (Feb 7, 2009)

I didn't know anything about the Rifle Gap project that Christo did in '70-'72 so I "did the google" and read that his engineering was so sound that the first attempt to install it resulted in failure as it was unfurled. He then returned the next year and the "successful" art installation lasted 28 hours! before 60 mile an hour winds destroyed the curtain again. If 60 mph winds are too much for his fabric projects... It also looks like none of the 200 tons of concrete were removed and there are steel I beams laying about. Apparently that project was on private property, but still, not cleaning up after one's self on that scale tells me a lot about where this guy is coming from. I like the term used earlier in this thread. This isn't art, this is spectacle. And on this scale it is industrial spectacle. Maybe as part of his mitigation he could be required to clean up the industrial waste in the Royal Gorge.


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## KPC80 (Feb 12, 2012)

Iraft said:


> some questions may be answered here...
> overtheriverinfo.com


preview pictures look like sh*t....

potentially much more damaging than rifle gap


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## kayakben (Jul 1, 2005)

Personally, I think it will be cool to kayak underneath the rags; it isn't everyday that we get to boat through the middle of something so unique.

I get the whole "clean is relative" thing, but seriously, take a look at that section of river...it's full of concrete and rebar - and, like it's been said, it's already a done deal. Let's make the best of it; let's pray for high water and boat the crap out of it while it lasts. Who knows, maybe some of Christo's concrete blocks will fall in and make some new play waves.

"Always look on the bright side of life _whistle whistle whistle_..."


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