# Stern Frames for rafting



## FatmanZ (Sep 15, 2004)

Pros: 
- Takes up less room than a regular frame
- Great when you have a bunch of people to fit on a raft
- Great for when you have a bunch of people that want to paddle a raft
- Two guide sticks are better than one? 
- Two oars help keep you (guide) in the raft better than a paddle

I've used a stern frame a handful of times with a bigger paddle rafts over the past few years. I don't raft much and guide rafts full of people even less but I can row decent so throwing a stern frame on a big raft full of people gives me more control than guiding with a paddle. This past summer on the Snake River near Jackson I took some family and friends on a couple runs in an 18' bucket boat. Having a stern frame on the pig with 8 paddlers and an additional 6-8 riders worked out well.


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## jakebrown98 (Mar 4, 2008)

I got one for free and refinished/rebuilt it 8 years ago. I've used it once. . .

In my opinion, stern frames come into their own on long days with weak paddlers or headwinds. I used to used them taking commercial passengers down the Main Tuolumne on one-day trips. Twenty miles is a lot to ask of a wad with a paddle. I've also used them in big water on the Nenana, and high water on the Lower Kern. I chose them those times because the paddle crews looked weak and pathetic and I wanted to up my odds.

I'm really not a fan when it comes down to it. Sure, you gain quite a bit more power and some control, but it is NOTHING like the power and control I have rowing a center mount. What you lose is a lot of mobility within the raft and usually you end up sitting up high on the ejection seat... The best way to rig it in a small (14') raft is to pop out the third thwart and slide the frame forward to get off the back tube. Of course that only happens if you have a 4pack or less. 

Each design has its pros and cons, I prefer a full slant board, but a stern frame is at best a special use item.


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## 2kanzam (Aug 1, 2012)

I run a stern frame everytime unless I am camping, then I set it up as a more traditional gearboat.

-I like the vantage point it gives me 
-It's a fun ride through even smaller rapids 
-It leaves the rest of the boat open (I like a less cluttered boat) for me and passengers (not sure how it equates to less mobility within the raft ^^^? I think it leaves more)
-It's small and easy to move/handle as one person
-It packs easy onto a cargo rack on the back of my subaru legacy

The only cons I can think of are lack of places to put gear for overnighters (which is why I convert into a gear frame for camping) and it may not be ideal for guiding 2 other fishermen in the boat. Although I usualy have 3 people in my boat (including me) all fishing...I fish from my seat, which works ok and they fish in the space in front.


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## filzy (Mar 26, 2005)

Thanks for the input. 

Did you ever feel you were being catapulted off the back of the stern because of the positioning of the frame in the stern?


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## filzy (Mar 26, 2005)

Great reply. Thanks, I appreciate the insight. I hear proven words of wisdom. Keep passing it on.


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## filzy (Mar 26, 2005)

Cool, Thanks for the reply.


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## jakebrown98 (Mar 4, 2008)

On easy runs it doesn't matter being up high on the back of the boat; it is a nice view. When you get into good class IV and V, it is very much an issue. You have to be in that seat, where you can easily get launched, to have any control of the raft. With a paddle in my hand, I can be farther forward, or down low and still have all the control I need. I can jump over to the left with my paddle and highside with my paddle in the water. After getting down, I don't have to climb up to that vulnerable position and get both oars in hand to have control. If you run a slantboard, you can't really get down at all. 

If you know exactly what the hits are going to be, sure you can ship one oar, ditch the other, and then hold on with the free hand. Or if you have huge mitts, hold both handles with one hand--that's what I do if the channel is wide enough. But that also means you know the run really well and might not be getting on enough new rivers. Also, if you have a full raft, letting go of those oars is the not best thing for your passengers' heads. Personally, I prefer a strong paddle crew, and a paddle in my hand if I'm dropping difficult, new whitewater. Or give me a real frame and oars--I could still put paddlers up front, or even in the back. 

To really answer your question, you need to determine your POU--Philosophy of Use. If the POU is day long float and bloat, definitely buy the stern frame--your "paddlers" will love you for it. If you think the stern rig is going to make you more comfortable running harder whitewater, I think you'd be better off finding a solid crew.


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## filzy (Mar 26, 2005)

I agree. Thanks for your time.


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## fireman9500 (Feb 15, 2010)

Ill be the opposition on this one....

I run alot of local class 4 in my Willy 1.5 with a stern frame from recretec. I know the runs very well and have gotten launched a couple times......but those were both from running the boof off little falls on the SF Payette with a passenger full 16' boat. I knew it was going to happen. 

I run 4 thwarts and easily take 6 people and 8 if the back 2 dont mind getting tossed due to a wayward oar. This allows the crew to just chill in between rapids while I move around the little stuff. I also like the added momentum on big water runs on the salmon 80k + when I want to punch something big. 

I like to have the ability to take a crew down a class 4 run and know that even if they are all a shit show I can still hit my lines without their help. 
That being said if Im running with my normal crew of guys that I work with, Ill always run a paddle rig without the oar assist. Its more fun in my opinion. 

Now the downside
-I dont have an extra oar due to the lack of a good place to store it out of the way of a paddle crew. If I lose an oar I have to swap over to a paddle. Now Im paddle guiding from a stern frame. 
-You definitely do sit higher and have to know when to get off the stern
-Weight for portages (Canyon run on the SF Payette mostly) 
-If you do lose an oar from your control you are likely to knock anyone that is in range of that sucker.
-Your friends will invite their friends more often due to the ability to drink some beers easily between rapids since you can move the boat around without any help.


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## whip (Oct 23, 2003)

Works great on the back of a paddleboat full of folks who cant get the concept of teamwork


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## OldandBitter (Jun 11, 2011)

I loved my stern frame. It's great for taking a heard of newbs down a river. I've captained paddle boats with marginal success, but the stern frame allowed me more control of the entire craft. Novice paddlers seem to do better with 2 commands, forward and back.


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## OldandBitter (Jun 11, 2011)

Purchased my stern frame from Downriver Equipment.


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## DoStep (Jun 26, 2012)

Stern frames were developed by commercial raft companies as a hybrid oar/paddle rig, especially for high water use. I believe stern rigs were required as part of the agreement when the Shoshone run was being developed for commercial trips in the 80's, particularly for the higher flows. Govt types believed passenger safety was enhanced. Guides had a little different gear ( no self bailers among other things) and less experience then compared to what is out there now, and I don't think they are required any longer.

They are somewhat clunky to drive, as the oars are off the stern far from the center of the boat, which causes a lag in response time for lining up the raft, which also leads to more corrections (read: more work!). They are also not very versatile, although they can be rigged as a center mount. But the geometry of the rear end is different than in the middle of the boat, so this is less than desirable as well.

An experienced paddle guide will be able to get a crew down class II with little effort, and the well-coached paddle crew really only needs to work in rapids and occasionally to keep a line in the main current. A boat driven by a paddle behaves different than a stern rig, the trade off is lesser performance for higher confidence.

If one is concerned about their paddle-guiding ability, or if beer is a priority for guide and/or passengers, just take the center frame and give them a couple paddles to play with.


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## OldandBitter (Jun 11, 2011)

My stern frame worked just fine in lll/lV whitewater. It worked really well in pool and drop rivers like the Ark. I could set the boat up and the paddlers could power through. It is a hybrid system, probably wouldn't work too well on Gore, not ideal for the Grand Canyon but it's a blast on the Taos Box.


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