# Class IV boating?



## Peelsauce (Jul 15, 2011)

I'm stuck somewhere between gore and Shoshone and was wondering if any class IV stuff was running? Gore is to big and Shoshone gets old after 3 times a day per weekend. Any suggestions would be great.


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## one legged wonder (Apr 19, 2011)

hey that is exactly where i am sitting right now as well. got on the lower part of barrel last week. it was short but fun, defiantly spiced shoshone up a little bit.


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## smauk2 (Jun 24, 2009)

Apple Sauce can be walked. Gore has a class IV+ sneak and can be walked. Scissors and Pyrite are awesome class IV+ rapids, and can be walked. Tunnel can be walked. Toilet bowl has a class IV sneak. Kirshbaum is V-, and just pure awesome, I think it can be walked.

You can have a class IV day in Gore, and it will make you a better boater.


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## stubby (Oct 13, 2003)

Agree wholeheartedly with smauk2.

You can walk a bunch of stuff in there and a much better adventure than Shoshone. Although the walk at Kirschbaum's would suck. Seems like swims in there end in pinned boats and bruised egos for sure, but on the easy end of a Class V rapid.

Just go in with some people that you trust and have fun.


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## Phillips (Feb 19, 2004)

Might as well not go if your gonna walk everything. 

Don't sandbag the sneak. . . I've seen it be the source of many beatdowns ending in pins down the right mank channel.

Your right about Kbomb. Love that rapid. Lines up so nice!!

KP



smauk2 said:


> Apple Sauce can be walked. Gore has a class IV+ sneak and can be walked. Scissors and Pyrite are awesome class IV+ rapids, and can be walked. Tunnel can be walked. Toilet bowl has a class IV sneak. Kirshbaum is V-, and just pure awesome, I think it can be walked.
> 
> You can have a class IV day in Gore, and it will make you a better boater.


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## ducksrus (Oct 4, 2010)

dont bother with Gore..may as well not go if you walk it all. Frying pan river at Basalt is running...good tech Class IV-..


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## Phil U. (Feb 7, 2009)

May not be what yer looking for, but #4 thru #7 on the Ark goes nicely at current flows of 175ish. Good technical lines can lead to a fluid run. I'd call a lot of it 4- without any push. The slot/drop at 5 is manky and you want to be hard left for the first part of 6. Someone who knows the lines helps... I paddle it 2 or 3 times a week, let me know if you want.

I'm willing to take boat assisted hikes but that much walking in Gore seems like the accent goes on hike too much to be worth it.


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## ~Bank (Jul 31, 2010)

Gore is beautiful. It's mostly flat water with good wildlife viewing. It's easy to turn it into a class four run. Applesause has a pool above and below. It's easy to look at Gore, Sissors, and Pyrite. Tunnel has changed for the flusher, It has not held anybody all fall. Toilet bowl can be scouted and portaged. Kirshbaum has a fishermans trail to scout or portage. If you love the outdoors and have no complaints about shouldering your boat for short technical walks; You will have a fun class 4 day with the oppertunity to step it up, or you can decide for yourself to not go back.


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## eklars (Mar 28, 2006)

If you haven't run numbers at low water, I'd give that a go next. Then give it a try in your playboat. If that feels good, I'd do Barrel next. It's easy to escape or walk any part of it, so it's easier on your stress levels. If you ace Barrel then I would head to Gore promptly. This was my progession and I thought it was fun, low stress and still rapid improvement. 

I would agree with all Gore comments, if you are willing to walk alot then head on over.


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## caspermike (Mar 9, 2007)

the dude said not gore and you people are telling him to go for it. if you are looking for 4 i wouldnt go to gore. plain and simple. i would give gore class 5 consequences if you fuck up you could flush as we almost say last year, plus the new ropes in the river. everybody needs to screw there heads down and realize we just had the worst year of years and its time to get smart.. enoughs enough. if you are going to walk most rapids you shouldnt be there. thats a horrible way to go into a canyon. instead of walking however many rapids think of how many more eddies, ferries, peel outs and attainments you could work on a a sweet class3.. dont listen to some of these buzzards for whom they just started running class 5 as well..


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## one legged wonder (Apr 19, 2011)

how late into the season does the numbers go?


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## caspermike (Mar 9, 2007)

sounds like phil runs it year round


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## eklars (Mar 28, 2006)

Phil and I and some other takers were on there every month but December. However, if you are at all sketchy about running it be sure to get in there and know the lines perfect before ice shelves form. A swim in winter conditions with 1' thick, 10' wide ice shelves in every eddy and along the banks is a great way to drown. 

Also, a guide is nice for your first run. My first ELF run was with Phil U. in January and I was very glad he was leading and that he had extensively scouted before we put on. It's about class III+ right now, with #4 and #5 needing a fairly specific line which can mess up the class III paddler. It's a small step up from Shoshone, but a good one.

I hate to say it, but I agree with CasperMike. Going straight from Shoshone to Gore is a bad idea. Maybe you can walk everything, but you will be tweaked out of your mind. I'd say it's a recipe for regression.


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## powdahound76 (Jul 20, 2006)

For sure on the Numbers. I ran Dumont and Lawson on CC a few times before the Numbers. For some reason the low pre-run scoutability had me much more nervous than CC. A great run at low flows and very boatable. As a mediocre IV boater at best, I would say Numbers at low flows may be one of the best "step-up" runs out there.


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## KSC (Oct 22, 2003)

I was just going to respond with, 'yer screwed', but look at all these helpful comments. The other factor is runs are getting cold right now which make things like pushing it on Gore less inviting. Then again, we ran into a crew the other day putting on for Gore who were planning on learning to roll on the paddle in so they'd be ready by the time they got into the canyon. Not sure how that trip went.

I ran Shoshone with some local a few years back while on my way to a Westwater trip. This guy had like 100 moves that he made down the like 1 mi run. I never had so much fun on Shoshone in my life trying to follow all his moves. But I can still see how the same run would get tiresome. Best bet is to wait for spring, but baring that option, I agree with driving over for some low water Pine Creek/Numbers and make a game of it as if you were playing HORSE on the school basketball court. The Royal Gorge can be run awfully low too but is a farther drive.

Side note- class IV means different things to different people. I feel like Gore is a class IV run punctuated by 2 or 3 soft class Vs. Some people consider class IV lots of class III punctuated by 1 or 2 class IVs. I know when I first thought I was a class IV boater, when I ran something that actually was pretty continuous class IV for the entire run, I got handed.


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## bobbuilds (May 12, 2007)

cross mountain gorge is 2hrs from you, not a bad option. goes year round


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## ednaout (Jun 3, 2005)

Huh, who would have thought that Casper Mike would become the voice of reason on the buzz!!! Ha! Good post Mike!


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## Chief Niwot (Oct 13, 2003)

*Clear Creek Narrows?*

How about the Clear Creek Narrows? We ran Black Rocks at 140ish a couple weeks ago. It was my first time ever and it was bony, but fun, way more fun then the Golden playpark. We looked at the Narrows, but we did not have the time and the hike down and hike out looked not so fun, steep scree.

I read that some of you paddle the Narrows down to 90cfs, I wouldn't think black rocks section would be good that low, as it was a bumpfest at 140ish?

So three questions:

Where do you put in for a low water narrows run, at the big pull out above that scree and back up or on the other side of the tunnel? 

Not having a chance to look at the narrrows closely, is it harder then Black Rocks at elf? I don't think I like Rigomortis at any level, but Black rocks seemed fun at elf.

How low do people run both Black Rocks through the narrows?


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## KSC (Oct 22, 2003)

CC Narrows: For the record, I say it's too low and you're better off doing flatwater tricks in the playpark, but I think some fool convinced me to do it not much off of 100 cfs a while back. There were 3 boofs as I recall. I'm sure it's better than BR rapid, so if you liked that, then I guess you should go for it. Good sloper boof practice at Mr. Bill I guess. 

Walk down the scree slope just east of the Tunnel. Make your 3 boofs (<60secs). Walk up the sketchy scree slope (take care or you'll end up like Dan O.) Walk back upstream along the sketchy highway and repeat. I think the walk back up to the road is a little better if you go downstream near where the trees are on river right, but it ain't a glamorous route any way you look at it.


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## Chief Niwot (Oct 13, 2003)

Thanks KSC for the info. 

I have never ran it in the 350 to 400 range, maybe not a IV, but the Royal Gorge is still an option, from what I have heard from others.


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## Peelsauce (Jul 15, 2011)

Thanks everybody, sounds like I have a lot of options. I think I'm gonna wait on gore till next year. Could I playboat numbers or should I bring my creeker just in case?


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## eklars (Mar 28, 2006)

I mix it up, but honestly I think its easier in a playboat. Tight moves and a slow moving boat make good partners. The exception being the pour over at #5, go for the sneak or a left flake boof in the meat line.


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## ~Bank (Jul 31, 2010)

I forgot about the Lower Blue. It might be exactly what you are looking for.


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## lmyers (Jun 10, 2008)

Peelsauce said:


> Thanks everybody, sounds like I have a lot of options. I think I'm gonna wait on gore till next year. Could I playboat numbers or should I bring my creeker just in case?


I would bring the creeker. You will be sliding over/around lots of rocks....better to have fewer edges, plus with the extra layers you will likely be wearing it will be more comfortable. When are you thinking of coming down? I would be glad to boat with you, and I have a feeling Phil would be happy to join as well...?....


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## Phil U. (Feb 7, 2009)

Good post Mike! 

Playboat or creeker goes on Numbers ELFing but I prefer to treat it as a creek. The Numbers go year round flow wise but can freeze up too much to paddle in a cold snap. "eklars", that first run we did was on the edge. Glad we had no out of boat experiences. 

Its warming up day by day with 60's by the weekend, cake boating, and its pretty fluid with 190ish on the Granite gauge. Post peak colors but still wicked beautiful out there. Snow down to treeline. 

No huge changes, but its cool to see how a few spots are different after this year's sustained high water. #5 seems harder to get right on, hate skipping over the left mank there. A 50' portage is an option. #4 is a little different but things aren't happening too fast there. What I call #7 has a few new gotcha rocks above formerly clean slots but the moves in there remain my fave part of Numbers ELFing. 

Good boating to be had on the Upper Ark.


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## Phil U. (Feb 7, 2009)

lmyers said:


> I would bring the creeker. You will be sliding over/around lots of rocks....better to have fewer edges, plus with the extra layers you will likely be wearing it will be more comfortable. When are you thinking of coming down? I would be glad to boat with you, and I have a feeling Phil would be happy to join as well...?....



Oh yeah. Got an afternoon free in the next day or two, Logan?


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## lmyers (Jun 10, 2008)

LanceDog said:


> So does anyone want to paddle this weekend?


Either Saturday or Sunday afternoon I would be in......or Friday Phil, but I have work tomorrow and Thursday pm.


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## LanceDog (Aug 24, 2009)

So does anyone want to paddle this weekend?


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## one legged wonder (Apr 19, 2011)

i cant go this weekend, but i was hoping to find some one willing to run the numbers a couple times next weekend. that would be the 22 or 23 or both .... ive been on it once when it was running around 1200.


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## ednaout (Jun 3, 2005)

I wouldn't mind trying to do some ELFing on the Ark if I can find another Denverite that's interested.
PM or call/text of you want to try to make a plan. 

303 four four four 4713
Beth


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## LanceDog (Aug 24, 2009)

Cool Logan give me a call later in the week or just post on the buzz. Sat would work better for me. And Heidi you know you can roll whenever you want. Just give me a call when your ready to fire it up. Lance#97039329oo


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## one legged wonder (Apr 19, 2011)

cool lance  plan on hearing from me next week


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## Peelsauce (Jul 15, 2011)

I'm not sure when I could make it down, senior year in highschool is stretching me a little thin. Maybe next weekend I could possibly go depending on HW and college essays.


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## Phil U. (Feb 7, 2009)

Peelsauce said:


> I'm not sure when I could make it down, senior year in highschool is stretching me a little thin. Maybe next weekend I could possibly go depending on HW and college essays.


Cool, take care of bizness with yer schoolwork. I'm always lookin to get out, just PM me. Lance, it would be good to boat with yew again. Even if folks have their own posse, let me know if you've got room. I do paddle it alone but I prefer not to. Friday and/or Sat. works for me Logan.


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## lmyers (Jun 10, 2008)

Sounds like Saturday is going to be super nice. Unfortunately I have a job in Salida first thing in the morning...but I will be done by lunch. How does 1pm at the Miner's Camp takeout (about 1/2-1 mile above Railroad Bridge) sound?

Anyone who wants to enjoy a little late season III+/IV- elfing is welcome.


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## fatbob (Apr 11, 2008)

Yo lance or Logan or anyone Wana fire it up,, Iam always down for some pine creek laps or piney to 5 1/2;; we were out there this mornin and it was gorgeous. I can't paddle sat but how bout sun?? I found a new Boof to slot in piney that made my day, then got the slide to boof so good it back endered me.. Wahoo low water piney!! Not to mention the new Boof ( as of last yr- right before the "hole"). Who wants to drink a beer in the cave eddy on sun???


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## lmyers (Jun 10, 2008)

Sorry Bob, I made plans to take a couple beginner/intermediates down Parkdale on Sunday...


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## ag3dw (May 13, 2006)

Logan, I may be up for the fall CKS sale. If I get there in time Sat, I would like to hook up with y'all to do the low flow #'s. I would like to see the lines. Leroy.


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## fatbob (Apr 11, 2008)

Meeting @ 5 1/2 Sunday between 1& 1:30; anyone wana paddle feel free to join. Probly the last bitta fall boofin for a while; weather dependent. I'll even sponsor a 12 racka pbr for the cave and takeout!


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## lmyers (Jun 10, 2008)

Leroy, you are more than welcome to come. Last call......running #4 to the Miner's Camp just above Railroad Bridge at 1 tomorrow afternoon. From the sound of things we will have 3-5 paddlers.....wouldn't mind a couple more. Who wants to boat? It might be October, but the weather is nice and there are some nice boofs to be had and slots to shoot down in the Numbers still. Hopefully we will see a couple more late season paddlers join...

Oh, and I got out there for 6 through the MM today with a new transplant from Taos and we had a great time....still good fun.

Logan 719-229-9333


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## Phil U. (Feb 7, 2009)

Great day on the rio yesterday. Ran #4 to #7. 32 cfs out of Clear Creek and 136 on the Granite gauge gave us 166 cfs. Peak colors along the rio. 6! of us including two first timers. 2 of us late 50s, 2 of us early 60s and 2 pups . Temp prolly hit 70. Fun meeting 2 new brothers and sharing their new appreciation of the Numbers.


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## one legged wonder (Apr 19, 2011)

im reallying hoping to come up to BV next weekend and get on if any is interested in taking another first timer down


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## Phil U. (Feb 7, 2009)

one legged wonder said:


> im reallying hoping to come up to BV next weekend and get on if any is interested in taking another first timer down


If the weather and water holds...


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## DoubleYouEss (Oct 4, 2011)

Phil, I'll be in the valley Monday, if there is water anywhere, we should boat.


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## Phil U. (Feb 7, 2009)

Check your PM Eben.


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## DoubleYouEss (Oct 4, 2011)

I meant to say next Monday, whoops...


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