# Karma



## Canada (Oct 24, 2006)

One of my pet peeves now that I have children is people straight lining it through the crowded slow zones.

Yesterday I witnessed a guy T bone an 8-10 year old girl. Smashes to the ground and broke his collarbone and dislocated his shoulder. I'm surprised the girls dad didn't jump on him and finish him off. Anyway, Karma is alive on the hill. That guy will be going a bit slower in the slow zone for the rest of the season.


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## DanOrion (Jun 8, 2004)

I share your peeve, but am surprised to hear a lawyer espouse the virtues of Karma.


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## Canada (Oct 24, 2006)

Ha! Most of us are trying to do the right things in life. Everyone hates lawyers, except for their lawyer, who is the exception to the rule.


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## Snowhere (Feb 21, 2008)

That's one reason I don't miss the mega resorts. I am more then happy teaching my kids to ski at a smaller ski area. But I had to chastise my 7yr old for going too fast in the slow zones last week. Happily, he listened and slowed down at the bottom of the hill. Now if a 7yr old can get it, why can't everyone else?


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## -k- (Jul 15, 2005)

Happens at the small resorts too. Just had a friend snowboarding get clipped by another snowboarder at Powderhorn. Basically came up behind him and took his tail out from under him. He came down on the back of his head and although he was wearing a helmet he ended up getting a concusion (Didn't know it until he went to the on-call the next day and couldn't answer basic math questions). The kid spun out, stood up and took off without saying a word. They never found him.


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## Theophilus (Mar 11, 2008)

I put my faith in the justice system = 'just us' and payback is a Medevac. These people are the reason I have to wear a helmet.


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## lemsip (Sep 11, 2009)

Are some ski areas more accident prone than others? My daughter is learning to ski at Winter Park and I cant believe the number of casualties I see coming down on sleds. Maybe its just that they all come down the same route, but on Sunday we saw six in a row. It does seem like WP has a lot of trails merging from multiple directions and a high number gaper tucks bombing down green runs.


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## DanOrion (Jun 8, 2004)

WP is def worse than some. Copper has a pretty nice layout with beginner skiing relatively isolated.


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## Canada (Oct 24, 2006)

*Sweeping generalizations*

I've taught two kids with another to go. I start them at 18-24 months. My 6 and 4 year old have been hit 4 times this season in about 30 days on the snow. Each time was by a teen age snowboarder. My kids love the parks, but kids seem to do a good job of watching out for each other there. I try to place myself between them and oncoming traffic and try to avoid terrain park access by groomers. Possibly going to one of the areas that don't allow boarders? I could rationalize it's a blind side thing, but the reality is each of these kids was just out of control. Now that they are into the moguls the whole problem is isolated to the merge areas.

Before I make someone mad, I ski and board, and don't think either is better or worse.


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## scooby450 (Dec 4, 2008)

I don't think the resort has much to do with it. Personally, I believe it is an issue of lack of education. Younguns these days do not know the code. Maybe more are trying it on their own with friends who have not been educated by parents who enjoy the winter sports and knew the code. With the coverage on TV their are more newbies coming out, not taking classes, and learning from their friends who learned it on their own.

Snowboarders have a blind side but the talented ones knows how to board safely. Part of it is the same thing that gave boarders everywhere a bad name: it wasn't boarding, it was the demographic that took to it. We refer to it as YAMIC (young,adult,male,immortality,complex) i.e.-teenagers that don't think, do what they want, think they are invincible, and basically don't care about how their actions affects others. This same demographic were skiing before boarding was invented, they were bad boys on two sticks back then. When they took to boarding they were more easily recognizable and we blamed it on what we recognized: the board. Bad wrap!

Try skiing in AZ where the desert dwelling drive up to the snow with no idea of what it takes. Some don't have the proper clothing. No gloves, no eye protection (this one gets me, with this sun?) They don't take a lesson, can't load and unload a lift. Trust me, the carnage I have seen on any river anywhere does not hold a match to what takes place slope side in AZ.


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## lmyers (Jun 10, 2008)

I think the resort does have something to do with it, but only because of higher skier counts. It is worst at Winter Park because it is closest to the state's largest population center. 
Smaller resorts usually only experience this problem during holidays and busy weekends...
I second what DanOrion said about Copper. Union Creek is the best beginner area I have ever seen...not a single blue.
Loveland Valley would be another good option where you can avoid the advanced skiers and riders all together.


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## Snowhere (Feb 21, 2008)

It is less a matter of staying away from the advanced riders. It is more a matter of staying away from the intermediate riders that think they are advanced, but that can’t really control themselves! Hence the number of them that meet a tree and buy the farm every year.

It is defiantly a law of averages problem. Lets say that 1% of all rider visits will result in a collision. So for 10,000 rider visits, you get 100 collisions. Now say 10% of collisions will be severe enough to require some sort of medical attention. That gives you 10 collisions where someone will get hurt out of 10,000 riders. A big mega resort may see 10K to 25K riders in a single day. The smaller places may see 10K in a week or two. So the larger places may have 10 to 25 daily accidents that require help. And the smaller place may see 1 every day or two. Hence the reality and the perception is that more people get hurt at the larger resorts. So even through the statistical probability of getting hurt is the same at all places, the lower numbers at the smaller places will spread those hits out over a longer time period, and the chances you will be effected goes down.


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## Andy H. (Oct 13, 2003)

One other factor to add to the discussion is the amount and quality of grooming a ski area provides. Its become standard for all intermediate and beginner runs to be groomed every night at most of the large areas. When ski runs have some texture to them, the little bumps and unevenness are much more likely to cause beginner and intermediates to fall, or otherwise keep their speed in check, before they get going too fast. When the runs are "billiard-table smooth" the intermediate and beginner skiiers can reach high speeds much more easily before they have that out-of-control crash. More beginner or intermediate riders going fast = more likelihood of collisions.


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## catwoman (Jun 22, 2009)

I always try to ski uphill from the little guy for this reason. I also encourage him to be aware of all the skiers around him. He got taken out by a teenage snow boarder when he was 5. The snow baorder was mortified and very apologetic, so I think it is best not to stereotype. It was an accident on a crowded run. It is less of an issue now that he is 7 and skiing expert terrain. I was taken out by a snowboarder in Chile on a wide open run at La Parva. He cussed me out in Spanish and kept going. I spent a year in Physical Therapy with a herniated disk over that one.


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## carvedog (May 11, 2005)

Canada said:


> Before I make someone mad, I ski and board, and don't think either is better or worse.


No it's an age thing more than anything. 



scooby450 said:


> it was the demographic that took to it. We refer to it as YAMIC (young,adult,male,immortality,complex) i.e.-teenagers that don't think, do what they want, think they are invincible, and basically don't care about how their actions affects others. This same demographic were skiing before boarding was invented, they were bad boys on two sticks back then. When they took to boarding they were more easily recognizable and we blamed it on what we recognized: the board. Bad wrap!


This is exactly it. 



catwoman said:


> I spent a year in Physical Therapy with a herniated disk over that one.


I got taken out on New Years Eve by a never ever skier. I was teaching. He went down the bunny hill and took me out at the ankles. Never a word or warning before impact. Just down. 

It looks like I may have a herniated disk too. Still working the PT but they are talking MRI. 

Getting hit sucks. Teach your kids how to watch out. I let my guard down because we were far from anyone, early in the day and ..... bam. 

He apologized and then told me "I don't know how to ski". Master of the obvious he is.


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## Stuntmonkey (Jul 9, 2009)

*Biggest peve on the resort?*

Parents taking their kids in the terrain parks thinking they're safe from the main flow runs. I can't count how many times I'm just about to go over a rail or table top and have to 'abort takeoff' because in comes a kid wedging in the landing zone just putt-putting along with their mom or dad slowly following. One time in particular, in a well-fenced off terrain park, I go off about a 20 footer with a blind landing; I was about 25 feet in the air only to realize there's a 3/4 year old with parent SITTING IN THE LANDING ZONE right in my path. I crash, barely avoiding them and they looked at me like I was in the wrong!
C'mon people, it's a terrain park? experts only? please stay out if you are teaching little one's.


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## carvedog (May 11, 2005)

Stuntmonkey said:


> Parents taking their kids in the terrain parks thinking they're safe from the main flow runs. I can't count how many times I'm just about to go over a rail or table top and have to 'abort takeoff' because in comes a kid wedging in the landing zone just putt-putting along with their mom or dad slowly following. One time in particular, in a well-fenced off terrain park, I go off about a 20 footer with a blind landing; I was about 25 feet in the air only to realize there's a 3/4 year old with parent SITTING IN THE LANDING ZONE right in my path. I crash, barely avoiding them and they looked at me like I was in the wrong!
> C'mon people, it's a terrain park? experts only? please stay out if you are teaching little one's.



You are preaching to the choir. We are trying to keep our children from being killed.


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## catwoman (Jun 22, 2009)

This thread made me think of a few years ago I was taking a video of a friend skiing with his son. The kid stopped suddenly and Dad ran him right over. It was funny only because no one was hurt. 

I tought skiing for a long time, and have been taken out many times. The worst is when they are coming at you with ski poles pointed at your eyeballs while you ski backwards. I have been taken out by more skiers (former occupational hazard) than snowboarders, by more beginners than experts, and on intermediate terrain more than any other terrain.

As a role model to a young skier, I click my poles, and/or call "heel side" or "On your_____" when over coming other snow enthusiasts. If they have headphones - they won't hear me. I always stop to the side of the trial and try to get up and to the side as quickly as possible from blind areas. I don't take blind jumps (without a spotter), or jumps into merging trails, because I don't want to land on someone (crushed my brother's collar bone when I was 5 by landing on him when he wrecked going off a "jump" and I was following too close to stop). I look for uphill traffic on a merge.

These are things I am trying to instill in the little guy - personal responsibility.


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## Porkchop (Sep 19, 2007)

There are three factors @ play here, peoples ability level, peoples education level, and the resort environment. Beginner and intermediate skiers and riders lack the skill to to change direction quickly or stop to avoid accidents, pretty simple. Education however, is tricky, people need to be taught to ski defensively. Stop where you can be seen, and select terrain within your ability. If you go in the Trauma Park you are responsible to inspect all the features before you use them, and use them in a safe manner. If you take your children into the park you are responsible for them. I took a seven year old out the park w/ a broken femur, who fell off the lip of the half-pipe while his dad and him were "checkn out" the park. At da beave its pretty nice to have a beginner, intermediate, and advanced park to accommodate everyone. If you only have one park at your area I think it would be risky to take beginners or intermediates in there. Regarding the resort environment, the less people the better. Also places where the terrain naturally separates ability levels would help. The busier the mountains get the more we all need to look out for each other. We need to help people leave their urban road rage attitude at home. Remind them that in the mountains that we take it easy and look out for one and other.


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## bobbuilds (May 12, 2007)

Dude, you said trauma park, i about pissed myself, speaking of which, did you see the flying tomato bust his head on the 1/2 pipe today? probably going to be a thread tomorrow. classic


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## bobbuilds (May 12, 2007)

here it is... White takes X Games title after practice accident - KansasCity.com


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## Theophilus (Mar 11, 2008)

Damn....OUCH!

YouTube - Shaun White Slam in Superpipe


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## CO_Patrick (Feb 22, 2008)

*Damn, I completely forgot the X Games were this weekend. Thanks for the link Scott. Looks painful, but some would say this fits in well with the Karma thread. Still though, he pulled it off later and I have to applaud him for not letting it become a mental thing. *


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