# Need cataraft instruction



## Justadd Water (Feb 2, 2014)

Hi Everyone,
I'm new here so I hope I'm in the right place and everything. For a little background on myself; I do some salt water kayaking, rivers (estuary fishing) and still water kayaking. No white water under my own power yet.

This is maybe a little off-topic for some of the cool white water stuff that goes on here but, I recently acquired a little 10' fishing cataraft (Outcast PAC-1000) and I want to take some rafting courses before doing a 3 day float on the lower Deschutes this summer.

Can anyone recommend where I can get instruction in Oregon, Southern Washington or California for catarafting up to Class III waters? I'd like to take the course with my own rig or something similar. My timing is mid to late May.


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## johnovice (Jul 17, 2009)

Class III Rowing School | Northwest Rafting Company

Oops - their late May class is full -- but June has room.
I don't know if they would let you take the course with your little fishing cat; they may or may not have Sotar cats in their fleet -- contatct them if interesed.
If no cats, I don't think rowing a raft is SO different from rowing a cat -- most of what you would learn would translate -- ferry angles, reading rapids, etc.
And you get to spend 5 days on the Rogue!!


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## cataraftgirl (Jun 5, 2009)

I started with an Outcast PAC 1000. Super fun. Class II-Easy III is reasonable for that little cat. It turns on a dime, which makes it prone to flipping in bigger water (ask me how I know that). It will carry enough gear for a weekend trip. I learned by rafting with friends, and then found a local whitewater rafting club to join. They had beginner trips to teach the basics. Beware....once you get comfy with the little cat, you'll be hooked and start shopping for a real cataraft. Have fun!


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## Justadd Water (Feb 2, 2014)

johnovice said:


> Class III Rowing School | Northwest Rafting Company
> 
> Oops - their late May class is full -- but June has room.
> I don't know if they would let you take the course with your little fishing cat; they may or may not have Sotar cats in their fleet -- contatct them if interesed.
> ...


Thanks, John. It makes sense the basics will translate to another craft. I'll give them a ring.


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## Justadd Water (Feb 2, 2014)

cataraftgirl said:


> I started with an Outcast PAC 1000. Super fun. Class II-Easy III is reasonable for that little cat. It turns on a dime, which makes it prone to flipping in bigger water (ask me how I know that). It will carry enough gear for a weekend trip. I learned by rafting with friends, and then found a local whitewater rafting club to join. They had beginner trips to teach the basics. Beware....once you get comfy with the little cat, you'll be hooked and start shopping for a real cataraft. Have fun!


CataraftGirl,
Hey it's cool that you started out with the same rig. I'm in South Central Cal. and we are a little water limited this year. Normally the closest white water is the Kern River but, I don't think the flow will support much rafting this year. 

Thanks for your comments on the responsiveness and potential instability of the PAC 1000. Hey, crashing is part of learning in most sports, right? As long as the equipment is a little forgiving and gives some room to learn. If it doesn't, I'll pick up something with more stability in a flash. The fly fishing gear cost about 4X what the PAC cost.

What do you think is a reasonable load for the PAC-1000? I want pre-load my rig and weight it within the the next week or so. My guesstimate is me (175 pounds) plus 100 to 120 pounds of gear. Maybe my expectations for this little raft are unreasonable so it's ok to tell me if you think I'm nuts. 

Dave


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## Justadd Water (Feb 2, 2014)

I could cut that load by 50 lbs pretty easy but that means no cooler.

Dave


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## cataraftgirl (Jun 5, 2009)

The Outcast website lists the capacity of the PAC 1000 as 500 lb. That seems a bit much to me. I think about 100-120 would be ok. I did weekends semi backpacker style with a soft cooler. On multi-day trips you will have other folks with bigger boats to carry the required groover, fire pan, bigger coolers, etc. Load you boat up and do a day trip to see how it handles. keep your load as low as possible.

A few years ago we saw 6-8 guys in mini cats on the Middle Fork Salmon in the fall. They had 2-3 support rafts with them. We talked to them at the take-out, and they all had multiple flips during the week, but had a blast. The thing that makes mini cats such good fishing rigs also makes them squirrelly in rapids. But on the "flip side" they are pretty easy to turn back over.


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## Justadd Water (Feb 2, 2014)

Great info cataraftgirl, thanks.

I'll make sure that everything is secured well enough to survive some rolls. I'll pack as light as possible and keep the CG low. The only reason that I'm thinking of bringing the cooler to bring a couple steelhead back with me. I suppose I could just keep a fish or two from the last leg of the trip. That would save the 50 pounds or so.

I won't have any support rafts on this trip. Right now it's looking solo but I've got the word out in case another fly fisher (perhaps with more cataraft experience) wants to join. I can always portage if I'm not comfortable shooting the bigger rapids alone.

Dave


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## johnovice (Jul 17, 2009)

Dave, if I'm reading your first post right, you have no whitewater experience (as the boatman) and no rowing experience (just paddling). I am not familiar with the river segment you are planning, but it seems a bit dicey to go solo under the circumstances (I have no idea how easy/hard it might be to scout, sneak, line or portage rapids there -- maybe others can chime in).

Duh, that's why you are looking for instruction!
You certainly can practice rowing on your own. You could get that cat out on easy water -- just to get the feel for rowing (maybe you are already doing/planning that). When I first got a raft, an old-time raft guide suggested to me that I put it on a lake and practice rowing backwards in a straight line -- I didn't do it, but I do think it is a cool idea! (I didn't do it because we have some easy, moving water around here, and that seemed like more fun.) I think this easy water rowing practice would be a good idea prior to the Class III course mentioned above.
I also heard and ignored some other advice: always turn using a forward stroke on one side and a backward stroke onthe other -- so you develop that habit -- you will need it in some situations.


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## laterwagged (Sep 29, 2011)

Justadd Water said:


> Great info cataraftgirl, thanks.
> 
> I'll make sure that everything is secured well enough to survive some rolls. I'll pack as light as possible and keep the CG low. The only reason that I'm thinking of bringing the cooler to bring a couple steelhead back with me. I suppose I could just keep a fish or two from the last leg of the trip. That would save the 50 pounds or so.
> 
> ...


Just a heads up that depending on which section of the "lower Deschutes" you are talking about flipping is possible/likely at most of the major rapids. The Deschutes below Sherar's falls takes on mostly big water characteristics. It isn't difficult water, but I'm not sure I would tackle any of the Class III on those runs with that setup. ESPECIALLY solo. If you swim, and lose your boat below Mack's Landing, you will be in a very bad spot with no water, food etc....

I would encourage you to do the run as its actually a pretty solid learning run with nice camping options, and portage anything that looks hairy, but don't even think about doing it alone. Forums like this one are a great place to post a trip and see if anyone is interested.


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## Schutzie (Feb 5, 2013)

Ditto on the solo run idea.
You want to find someone to tag along with. You know, someone who will pull you and your gear out in case you get into trouble.

And you should expect to get into trouble as a rookie.


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## cataraftgirl (Jun 5, 2009)

Solo as a rookie is a bad idea for many reasons.
#1 - going with other rafters is the best way to learn. You don't need to pay for training, you just need to hook up with some veteran rafters who will teach you the ropes. Look for a local rafting club to do trips with. That's how I learned.
#2 - most rivers require certain equipment for multi-day trips. Groover, fire pan, first aide, rescue, repair, spare oar, etc. That's a lot of stuff to carry on a mini cat.
#3 - it's very unsafe. Especially on an unfamiliar river. I have been rafting for 17 years and I've never done a solo. I'd like to do one someday, but only on a river I know very well, and where help is easier to get.


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## Justadd Water (Feb 2, 2014)

Your points are well noted. I was planning to float Macs to Heritage with a couple of portages. I'm actually familiar with most of that section and I've been through the larger rapids several times in a jet sled. I guess I'll take everyones advice and stick to a couple of shorter runs, maybe Beavertail to Macs.

I understand the importance of training and a rowing class is a must before doing any rapids on my own. Maybe after the class I'll decide to get a bigger rig. Doing the trip with someone is probably a wise idea but, that may or may not happen. I'll put the word out and see if another fly fisher wants to join me.

Thanks for the responses and advice.


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## cataraftgirl (Jun 5, 2009)

Justadd Water said:


> Your points are well noted. I was planning to float Macs to Heritage with a couple of portages. I'm actually familiar with most of that section and I've been through the larger rapids several times in a jet sled. I guess I'll take everyones advice and stick to a couple of shorter runs, maybe Beavertail to Macs.
> 
> I understand the importance of training and a rowing class is a must before doing any rapids on my own. Maybe after the class I'll decide to get a bigger rig. Doing the trip with someone is probably a wise idea but, that may or may not happen. I'll put the word out and see if another fly fisher wants to join me.
> 
> Thanks for the responses and advice.


Have fun & stay safe. You're going to love that little Outcast. I still have mine after all these years. It's a keeper. Floating & fishing section A of the Green below Flaming Gorge Dam in June.


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## Osseous (Jan 13, 2012)

You may have set a new record for "need a bigger boat". You have an outstanding day boat for fishing. Outcast makes some really wonderful fishing craft. The trip you described is way outside the design idea behind this boat though- Can you do it? Sure- but you'll immediately want something with carrying capacity- because that's what multidays boil down to. 

The trip you want to do is really better suited to a 14' x 23" or 24" whitewater quality cat boat- or a smaller (13') raft. Don't feel bad- it's the nature of this sport. Get into it in something easily managed and maneuvered- and then work up to a boat that meets that multiday desire that we all seem to covet. 

I started with a Scadden pool toy boat- went to a 13' Sotar Cutthroat (19" diameter) for just one season- that grew into a 14' x 23" Sotar ST for the kind of trips (with fishing) that you describe. I added a Watermaster Kodiak along the way for single day solo fishing- and now I've added a 15' maravia zephyr. Welcome to the addiction- and the nature of this sport. You're never gonna be happy or fully equipped for what you want to do with just one boat. Your Outcast 10' is great for fishing day trips- use it that way a ton and learn how to read water (pourovers were my arch nemesis when rowing from a low position in my fishing floats) and to ferry, straddle eddies for lateral movement across the current.... Lots of things you can do with that boat that will pay big dividends going forward. Do the multiday with friends- or table it for next year when newboatitis takes hold and you add something 14' or so


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