# SOUTH FORK SALMON trip?



## 6FEETandRISING (Feb 15, 2012)

Anybody out there ever done a South Fork Salmon run in a 14-16ft boat or cataraft? I have had my eye on this run for years now. One of the guides I used to work with on the Selway told me he's run it about 3 times back when he was 25ish, in the late 70s early 80s. He said that it scared the shit out of him and that he probably wouldn't go back there now that he is older. From looking at pictures on the web of Devils Creek, Elk Creek, Greyhound and Fall Creek, they all look pretty gnar, especially Fall cr. What is the lowest level you think you could take a raft down the SFS? or When does the river close out? I'm also interested in doing maybe a very low water IK self support trip. I'm a competent class IV boater that has guided for years on the Selway and MFS looking for a new river to play on, and it just happens to be in my backyard.


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## Rich (Sep 14, 2006)

I've been looking at the South Fork Salmon for years, but never done it.
I'm in Idaho early for the MFS or late for the NF Payette and the South Fork is either too high and snowed in, or too low. A bunch of cat boaters are in Yellowpine around the 4th of July when in a typical year both the South Fork and the East Fork of the South Fork are a great levels.
Rumor has it that it is best for a cat at 2.5 to 4.5' on the Krassel gauge.

I'll be up this year for Memorial Day Lochsa and then a MFS and will be watching the level of the South Fork and whether the road to Yellowpine from McCall is open (Lick Creek Divide).

Found three writeups, all by kayakers:

California Creeks.com

Oregon Kayaking.com

Colorado Kayak Chronicles


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## cataraftgirl (Jun 5, 2009)

Welcome McCall.....one of my favorite little towns. I've got some good friends up in that neck of the woods. Beautiful place.
We shared the Southfork camp on the Main Salmon with a group of kayaker/IK folks once (2006 if memory serves). They were all 20 something young men, and it sounded like the Southfork was fun, but hard work. I've never seen or heard of rafts/cats doing the Southfork???? 
KJ


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## phlyingfish (Nov 15, 2006)

Rich said:


> Rumor has it that it is best for a cat at 2.5 to 4.5' on the Krassel gauge....
> 
> will be watching the level of the South Fork and whether the road to Yellowpine from McCall is open (Lick Creek Divide).


I've run the SF at about 3.0 on the Krassel guage and a very experienced friend (class V kayaker with lots of rafting time too) rowed a 14 footer. Everything seemed pretty reasonable for him except Fall Creek. That took some detailed scouting and some fancy rowing. It was really nice having the extra beers on the long, slow float out the Salmon. At or below 2.5 and I would guess things start getting too rocky for a loaded raft. IKs and kayaks can handle it even lower.

Note that the Krassel guage only provides a rough estimate of the flow. Flow from the ungauged the EFSF and the Secesh can have a big effect on the flow in the canyon itself. But at lower flows this is less of an issue.

You may know this, but Lick Creek is not the only road into the South Fork. True, Lick Creek, if it's open, is a lot more convenient than coming in on the South Fork Salmon River Road (#674). However 674 is almost always open. I've run the South Fork as early as March, using road 674 to access the Secesh-South Fork confluence. It's a long shuttle, but, hey, you're in Idaho.


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## jmcdannel (Apr 22, 2009)

SF Salmon is a great trip - a favorite of most who've run it. It's remote, with a lot of continuous class IV and a few class V's. The fishing, scenery and whitewater is hard to beat. I've only run it once, in 2010. But I'll be there this year. I've been going to Yellow Pine EFSF salmon around 4th of July for a few years now. It's a ton of fun. I run a 12.5' sotar legend. I ran the SF Salmon at 3.6'. It was pretty stout. It gets exponentially bigger with more water. 2.2 - 2.5 is the low range. Not sure I'd take a 16' cat below 2.8ish - but I don't really know since I've not seen it at anything besides 3.6'.

Also, the East Fork of the South Fork is one of the funnest day trips I've run. Flight Simulator is a long class V. Below there, it is mostly fairly continuous class IV - IV+. It's all road side and scoutable. And the difficulty increases the further up you go. So, you just start at the confluence with SF Salmon, drive up until you see something you don't want to run, put in there. Flight sim is the only one that is difficult to scout.


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## mcfarlandandrew (Apr 8, 2006)

Ran it in kayaks two yrs ago at 2' and would not have wanted any raft in there, although I'm sure more accomplished boaters than me could pull it off. Even the guy in the double IK was barely making the required eddies above the drops.

My favorite trip by far in the last 5 yrs. A very generous jet boat from the Polly B Ranch picked our 6 kayakers up about 5 miles into the 20mile paddle out of the Salmon.


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## mania (Oct 21, 2003)

I took a 14' cat in at 4.5 feet and was scared more than once. fall creek was terrifying. Would like to row it at a lower level this summer.


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## 6FEETandRISING (Feb 15, 2012)

*Found some sweet photos*

This is a flickr photo set from Northwest Raft Company, with some awesome photos of the SFS.

South Fork of the Salmon - a set on Flickr


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## Rich (Sep 14, 2006)

6FEETandRISING said:


> This is a flickr photo set from Northwest Raft Company, with some awesome photos of the SFS.
> 
> South Fork of the Salmon - a set on Flickr


 
Great photos. Wish it told us the gauge flow.

July 2010: total wag 3'-3.5'?

Very interested in doing this run. Will be up in Idaho very early June after a MFS, probably too early!


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## mania (Oct 21, 2003)

Rich said:


> Great photos. Wish it told us the gauge flow.
> 
> July 2010: total wag 3'-3.5'?
> 
> Very interested in doing this run. Will be up in Idaho very early June after a MFS, probably too early!


that is a lot lower than when i ran it. people are smiling even. they would not be smiling at 4.5.


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## Faucet Butt (May 11, 2008)

*Can be heavy duty*



mania said:


> that is a lot lower than when i ran it. people are smiling even. they would not be smiling at 4.5.


Yeah- 4.5' is approaching vomit-while scouting-level.

I was w/Mania a few years back in my 16' cat and got my ass handed to me more than once. Woody, remote, beautiful-no one around. 

Prior to running it I had several years experience on the Upper Animas-I'm glad I did...at medium to high flow, it's a pretty tough run.


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## mania (Oct 21, 2003)

Faucet Butt said:


> Yeah- 4.5' is approaching vomit-while scouting-level.


I clearly remember when scouting fall creek you said "I feel sick". I felt the same way but tried to hide it.


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## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

We did it this past july at 4.2' supposedly a high 4.2 from other folks that have run it a lot. But that is critical, as others say, you're running a river formed basically by 3 coming together and only one has a gauge. LOVED it, as josh says, can't wait to do it again this summer. I am really glad i had done a bunch of class v stuff for a couple of years before that. I would not want to try to step up from class iv to that river. Zach at nwr put together a cool rafting progression list, check it out and where it falls compared to others.


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## dgosn (Sep 8, 2006)

This is #1 on the list for summer, though I prefer my vomiting to happen due to the whiskeypus.


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## Favre (Nov 17, 2010)

Only time I ever ran it was in 2006. It was almost 7 feet on the guage (6.75 ft)

At those flows, rafting it would have been a death wish. As I understand it, most rafters would want to be there under 4.5 feet. It was full on class 5, kayaker only whitewater.

We put in at 1:30pm and made it to the take-out that night as the sun set. 53 Miles in a day.

At these gigantic flows, the Stikine veterans and best big water paddlers seek to run laps on the South Salmon (sometimes including the Secesh.)

Cheers! It's beautiful there..

-Micah Kneidl


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## Kilroy (Oct 23, 2011)

6FEETandRISING said:


> This is a flickr photo set from Northwest Raft Company, with some awesome photos of the SFS.
> 
> South Fork of the Salmon - a set on Flickr


Those were some truly awesome pictures, thanks for sharing!


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## 6FEETandRISING (Feb 15, 2012)

lhowemt said:


> We did it this past july at 4.2' supposedly a high 4.2 from other folks that have run it a lot. But that is critical, as others say, you're running a river formed basically by 3 coming together and only one has a gauge. LOVED it, as josh says, can't wait to do it again this summer. I am really glad i had done a bunch of class v stuff for a couple of years before that. I would not want to try to step up from class iv to that river. Zach at nwr put together a cool rafting progression list, check it out and where it falls compared to others.


Would you mind offering up some more of your trip info. Like, what kind of boats did you guys take in there? How many days did you spend floating the SFS? Do you have any photos, fall creek maybe?


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## raftus (Jul 20, 2005)

I'm thinking that Mania and Faucet Butt must of had a very different 4.5 from the 4.2 that lhowemt had - or is the river that different with only .3 of increased gauge height? I'm not sure how to reconcile "Yeah- 4.5' is approaching vomit-while scouting-level." (especially from someone like Mania) and "LOVED it, as josh says, can't wait to do it again this summer." Did I miss something? 
This has been on my list for a few years as well now. Thanks to everyone for the beta.


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## mania (Oct 21, 2003)

Like Laura says only one of three rivers has the gauge so you really don't know. it was full of monster holes when I ran it in mid-June one year. raftus lets you and me an dgosn and faucet head up there around July 4.


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## idahofloater (Feb 23, 2011)

OP, I run the SF almost every year, we ran it last year @ 3.8 and 2.9. We run a 14' Vangaurd SB with two paddlers up front and 9' sticks on the frame and packed ultra lite. That was tight on the river. But I really don't think you would want to be on the river with a 14' boat @ 3.5+ without an experienced paddle crew. Ya kinda need someone who can get out of the boat fast, high side, and push off rocks. And you don't want to get turned in a 14' boat. The second boat was 13' aire cat used as a lead boat. We wrapped the aire boat on the 3.8 run! 2.9 is waaay different than 3.8. I wouldn't call the SF a "scary run" (even at 4.5) cuz you can make the pull outs easy enought, but I was gripped for sure. I have never been on over 4.6'. I think Secesh (spelling) was more intense. Anyway, study the shit out of the river maps, make a plan, take a GPS, and assign a crew paddler to keep track of the features and GPS location. Scout more than you think you should. Who ever sits on the sticks will be battling all day. So, be fired up for that. We spend one nite on the SF and fly out at mackey. Usually just below wolf creek.


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## Faucet Butt (May 11, 2008)

*The River Trivecta*

Yes, there are 3 rivers that all join together in that area: the Sesech, East fork of the South Fork, and the South Fork- all forming the main South Fork of the Salmon-so the Krassal guage only gives you an idea of what the flow is. 

We launched on the East Fork of the South at Murderer's bar I think it was called-which added 7 miles on the East before meeting the trivecta. The day before, the kayakers and I had a great run on the E.F. of the South-putting in just below the class 5+ section known as Flight Simulator-highly recommended.

CFS-wise, when we were on it I'd guess it was between the high 5k-lower 6,000 cfs.

We scouted Devil Creek and Fall Creek- the other two tricky ones- Surprise and Elk Creek, we read and ran without difficulty. 

In general, the river is fairly continuous, filled with large holes, quite technical and simply incredible. 

Fall Creek has a slew of crux moves. The actual rapid is about 1/4 mile long. At the entrance the river is squeezed and forms a large compression wave. When Mania and I were there, the entrance wave/hole was about 14' high with another 3' of foam backwash at the top. Beyond that was kind like a technical class 5- zone which funneled into a house-sized boulder. To the rt of that boulder was a large-scale sieve formed by a falls with an 80' ponderosa wedged into it. To the left was another 8-10' pour-over followed by a sieve/boat pinning run-out. 

Having the larger boat (16' jag cat), I ran first while Mania watched from shore. We had 3 expert kayakers with us who had set safety downstream-just above the sieve boulder on river left.

I pushed for all I was worth into the compression wave and was pitched up into a vertical tube-stand, high-sided on my front,rt tube to keep the boat right-side-up, made it through, got my popped oar back into place and rowed to where the kayakers were. Mania had a similar run. 

We lined around the boulder/pondo/sieve zone and easily finished up the class 4 run-out. 

That night we drank whiskey. 

I'd love to go back and do it again at a slightly lower level. This river is in the same class as the Upper Animas, Illinois, Forks of the Kern- a classic wilderness gem that demands respect, proper planning, lightweight, agile boats, and skill. 







raftus said:


> I'm thinking that Mania and Faucet Butt must of had a very different 4.5 from the 4.2 that lhowemt had - or is the river that different with only .3 of increased gauge height? I'm not sure how to reconcile "Yeah- 4.5' is approaching vomit-while scouting-level." (especially from someone like Mania) and "LOVED it, as josh says, can't wait to do it again this summer." Did I miss something?
> This has been on my list for a few years as well now. Thanks to everyone for the beta.


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## mrett (Feb 17, 2012)

*SFS*

Have been on the SFS 4 times now.
Recently w/Laura and group @ 4.2'
Usually w/Cats 12-14'. Zach Collier expertly ran a gear boat(14 sb)

for us two years ago @ 3.25'. Hairiest trip was a pumping 3.9'
The classic overnight trip in my book.


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## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

No way would i want to take a round boat in there, but i'm a catboater. Raftus, from all i've heard from the veterans is that this is not unusual. Imagine assessing the flow of the mf salmon only with the flow of marsh. And that only has two major tributaries, not three. I think the 3 tribs of the sf also can come off completely different so the krassel gauge really is only a guide for choosing when to run or at least consider, it cannot be used for direct comparison. It's not really that uncommon around here to have ungaiged major tributaries coming after a gauge causing huge variability in the behavior of a river at the same gauged flows. Maybe we have fewer gauges than in co? 

And 6" of flow at krassel, multiply by at least three and yes it varies hugely in that small span. 4.5 is my current cutoff but i don't doubt mania's experience. However i have often felt like that before running class v stuff.


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## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

Oh yeah. 12.5' sotar legend and 3 days. 2 on the sf. We did the lower 5 miles of the efsf on day 1 also. What a blast. I have some video, but as with all cat video it doesn't do it justice. Don't go there without some people that have done it (to op)


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## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

And again, could be this year it is more like a mid-late june trip if that basin doesn't start getting some snow. Or if we have a fast and furious spring. Time will tell.


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## cataraftbetty (Sep 27, 2010)

*SFSalmon @ 5.5 ft*

When I moved to Montana, Alan Hamilton @ Aire told me I should run the SFS, but not to go in above 2.5 ft on the gage for my first trip. When the opportunity presented itself there were 3 people on the trip who'd run it before, and 3 of us who hadn't, and the level was 5.5 ft on the gage. 

The experienced boaters were all in 16 ft Ocelots, I was in a 14 ft x 24 " tube Ocelot, and my two friends were in 12 ft Wildcats. To say the least, it was combat boating at its finest. We were puckered the entire trip, and talked about how much fun it would be to see it a little lower next time. The smaller boats were able to/needed to do some sneak routes, like the entrance to Fall Creek, but all made it through safely. I flipped in Chittam at 45,000, and missed the takeout, but that's another story.

SFS may be one of my favorite wilderness multiday runs, but it is not to be taken lightly. It is on par with Forks of the Kern and Upper A. Scout as much as you can and be prepared for combat boating. I believe we spent two nights and 3 days, because it was beautiful and we could.


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## Roddy (Sep 8, 2011)

I have only hit it once, so I am no expert, but Here is a POV of Devil Creek at about 4': http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cI78TK_wCCw&feature=youtube_gdata_player. Looks small on the footage compared to the actual run.

I agree a round boat may be tough to manage in the SFS. I went with some boaters who really knew the river. We only scouted Devil Creek and Fall Creek, if not familiar with the run, at least scout the Surprise-elk cr-deer cr series as well. If Surprise goes bad, it could be a devastating swim. Go light so you can self-rescue. 

Timing the run can be tough. The EFSF, Secesh, SFS area is a place where I need to spend more time.

Fwiw,
Roddy


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## yak1 (Jan 28, 2006)

*You'll die*

Yup it's a long walk out, the holes will eat a bus, and there are no hot springs. I'm sure you'll die if you try it.


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## rjerney (Sep 24, 2012)

cataraftbetty said:


> When I moved to Montana, Alan Hamilton @ Aire told me I should run the SFS, but not to go in above 2.5 ft on the gage for my first trip. When the opportunity presented itself there were 3 people on the trip who'd run it before, and 3 of us who hadn't, and the level was 5.5 ft on the gage.
> 
> The experienced boaters were all in 16 ft Ocelots, I was in a 14 ft x 24 " tube Ocelot, and my two friends were in 12 ft Wildcats. To say the least, it was combat boating at its finest. We were puckered the entire trip, and talked about how much fun it would be to see it a little lower next time. The smaller boats were able to/needed to do some sneak routes, like the entrance to Fall Creek, but all made it through safely. I flipped in Chittam at 45,000, and missed the takeout, but that's another story.
> 
> SFS may be one of my favorite wilderness multiday runs, but it is not to be taken lightly. It is on par with Forks of the Kern and Upper A. Scout as much as you can and be prepared for combat boating. I believe we spent two nights and 3 days, because it was beautiful and we could.


I've run the SFS several times now. (All less than 4.3') I'd love to hear more about your trip @ 5.5' any pics? what were the cruxes?


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## floatingk (Aug 5, 2008)

Wow, nice pics! Btw, Im currently working on making a 'throwback' 1890's style map of the Secesh and SF Salmon. If youre interested drop me a line, for that or any other maps actually...


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## floatingk (Aug 5, 2008)

And I forgot to mention theres a beer for ya if your driving through McCall!


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## fullmer (Aug 23, 2006)

*Scout at the waterfall on the left . . .*

So, I have to add my story about the South Fork. 


The day after the North Fork of the Payette race I kayaked the Secesh/South Fork with two buddies. The three of us, B-rad Higginbotham, Chase Nobles, and I put on the Secesh June 10, 2012. The Krassel gauge was about 4.8, although none of us knew this at the time and none of us had boated either of these rivers before. 


Based on some beta from Ryan Casey and a quick read of some Internet descriptions, we decided to do a two-day trip, which at that water level was perfect in kayaks. The one key bit of information we had, and used, was to scout on the Secesh where a waterfall came in on the left. After portaging a very large and complicated log jam, we were all surprised when we reached the confluence early in the afternoon. Those 14 miles flew by in a hurry. 


We continued down the South Fork until we found a pristine sandy white beach on the right. We cooked a huge batch of pasta that night and put on about nine the next morning under blue skies and sunshine. The second day we kayaked about 25 miles on the South Fork and about 22 miles on the Main Salmon, taking out at the Vinegar Creek Boat Ramp, where a shuttle driver/casualty from the Payette race post-party met us with my truck. 


The Secesh was tight and technical with some sticky ledge holes while the South Fork had big rolling waves, truck-sized holes, and the occasional bear cruising along the shoreline. 

I’m already making plans to return this spring.


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## yak1 (Jan 28, 2006)

Rocky Rossi (RIP) made a video (vhs days) of us running it with a raft at 6' + I'm sure there's still a copy of that floating around somewhere. I've run the SF about 6 or 8 times and it's great run but not for the faint of heart.


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## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

Find that video please! 6' in a RAFT? Yowsa


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## idahofloater (Feb 23, 2011)

I float the hell out of that canyon. 5 times last year. 4' is a good level for a 14' sb. Put one guy on the oars and two up front with paddles. All well be good. Above 4', lots of the smaller rapids go away. Its just big holes with just a few of the big rapids. Maybe the easiest flow to run. At 6' the river gets pushy and it becomes a chore to stay in the channels. under 3' would be a good first IK run. There are ton of old guys in mccall that run the SFS between 4 and 6. Also, starting last year, the sfs is closed 8/1 to 9/15 for salmon migration.


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## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

idahofloater said:


> starting last year, the sfs is closed 8/1 to 9/15 for salmon migration.


Wtf is that??? More major management changes with no public process?


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## NWestslope (Feb 27, 2012)

Can you provide a FS link to verify this closure? news to me.


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## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

Then I read that the new mines up in the efsf headwaters will dewater the efsf!!!! What the hell?!?!


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## idahofloater (Feb 23, 2011)

NWestslope said:


> Can you provide a FS link to verify this closure? news to me.


Nick, you call surely call them and ask. Or do you need me to provide you with that number too. 


It was posted on the road side forest service signs at the putin and up the road on the east fork. We put in on 7/25/12 and the forest service was there to check us out. That was the first time I have ever experienced this.


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## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

Nick, are you going to call? I couldn't find anything on the web

I just found this, from 200, very odd because many people run it during those times.

http://m.boatertalk.com/forum/BoaterTalk/17842/


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## idahofloater (Feb 23, 2011)

I had no idea it went back that far. I thought last year was the first. Or atleast its the first time I was checked at put in and made aware of the salmon deal.


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## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

Many people run it in may and august, that is news to us. That's so weird because there are so many places to put in. What did they check you for?


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## dirtbagkayaker (Oct 29, 2008)

Yes the south fork experiences closuers due to salmon migration. Some years they post notices better than others. But yes, you can expect that the river will be closed to rafts and such on August 1. You can also expect that most don't give a rip.

PS: I could not find anything on a web search but I too have seen the signs.


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## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

So every year the closures are in effect, or just some?


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## dirtbagkayaker (Oct 29, 2008)

I have no idea what they are up to. I don't even get what they are thinking. Its beyond me.. so far beyond me. I don't even try any more.


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## idahofloater (Feb 23, 2011)

dirtbagkayaker said:


> I have no idea what they are up to. I don't even get what they are thinking. Its beyond me.. so far beyond me. I don't even try any more.


 
x2


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## Outlaw (Mar 8, 2010)

Looks the closure only effects the upper stretches of the river, pre-confluence. Now who's ready for an August trip?!


Permits to Allow Main Salmon, Middle Fork Transitions
Release Date: Apr 10, 2004 
News Releases: 2004
2003 | 2004 | 2005 | 2006

USDA Forest Service
Payette National Forest
Contact: Boyd Hartwig (208) 634-0784 or by email
April 10, 2004
McCall, ID - The Payette National Forest now has permits available at the Krassel Ranger District in McCall that allow boaters to float the South Fork of the Salmon River and exit on to the Salmon River without the historically hard-to-get Main Salmon permit. The new permits also allow boaters to float Big Creek and exit on to the Middle Fork, Salmon River.
Previously, boaters were required to be in possession of Main Salmon River permits to continue beyond the confluences of the South Fork Salmon River and Main Salmon River, or the confluence of Big Creek and Middle Fork Salmon River.
These permits are free, but mandatory for all floaters. The permits will allow boaters to exit South Fork Salmon River and/or Big Creek on to the Middle Fork or Salmon River, without a separate permit as long as they exit the river system on the same day with no camping within either the Middle Fork or Salmon River corridors.
"Making these free use permits available for Big Creek and South Fork Salmon River will be a great asset to the float boating community,” said Jane Cropp, Branch Chief for Lands, Minerals and Recreation for the Payette National Forest. “Before these free permits were available it was necessary to acquire a permit for either the Middle Fork or the Salmon River. Those permits are based on a lottery draw system, and as boaters know, are difficult to secure."
Before this new free use permit was available, a boater had to have a valid permit to float the Middle Fork or the Salmon Rivers to be legally floating out from one of these tributaries. Those permits have always been difficult to secure through a lottery draw system. The new, free use permits can be obtained by contacting the Krassel Ranger District, located at 500 North Mission, McCall, ID between the business hours of 8 am - 4:30 pm, Monday thru Friday, or by calling the office at (208) 634-0600.
It’s important to note that a closure order is in effect that prohibits the launching of float boating equipment, going into or being upon designated reaches of Big Creek and South Fork Salmon River (SFSR) with float boating equipment for the following periods: April 1 - May 31 and August 1 - September 30 of each year. The float boat restriction applies to the entire stretch of Big Creek, but is only in effect on the SFSR from the confluence with Goat Creek to the confluence with the East Fork of SFSR. Please call the Krassel Ranger District for specific details on these closures. The closure order is in place for the protection of a threatened fish during spawning seasons.
During the first three years of implementation of these new permit regulations, the Payette National Forest will be monitoring the number of floaters using the rivers on given days, and times of the year. Shoreline surveys will be completed throughout the season to assess any potential resource issues that may occur with an increase of use on these tributaries. Resource specialist will also be assessing the need to require fire pans and pack-it-out devices for human waste, as is currently required on the Main Stems of Middle Fork and Salmon River. For more information, contact the Krassel Ranger District at (208) 634-0600.


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