# Glenwood Springs Wave is IN



## RiverRestoration.org (Apr 27, 2004)

Please Make Sticky

Thank you to all who supported the Glenwood Springs WWP. The main feature has water flowing over it and it is LARGE!! 

Construction is ongoing probably through March 15, 2008. Please do not paddle during active construction. The crew usually goes home Friday afternoons, so weekends will probably be the best time to test it out. We welcome any comments.

River Restoration


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## fred norquist (Apr 4, 2007)

i got the first surf friday afternoon!!! haha!


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## ActionJackson (Apr 6, 2005)

Good job to all who helped get things to this point. It's a big accomplishment. Anxious to see photos or video of the wave.


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## Smokey Carter (Aug 31, 2005)

Yeah, could someone post a pic or three?


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## latenightjoneser (Feb 6, 2004)

pics please, or I am calling your bluff


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## Jahve (Oct 31, 2003)

I drove by about a week ago and they were workin on it. It is a great spot for a wave.

Could not tell what it is going to look like but am looking foward to playin in g-wood!


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## RiverRestoration.org (Apr 27, 2004)

see pic. 30 feet wide 3 feet high pile, should wave out more as the flows come up....


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## RiverRestoration.org (Apr 27, 2004)

This is the BEFORE pic!


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## caspermike (Mar 9, 2007)

3 foot pile? where from the bottom of the river come on 3 foot pile is over head surf be real.


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## deepsouthpaddler (Apr 14, 2004)

That looks nice!!! Spectacular before and after skills. How is the hole right now? Rententiveness?

Where exactly is this located in glenwood?


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## David Spiegel (Sep 26, 2007)

Is it deep? It looks a little shallow in the pics....


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## LiquidGuy87 (Aug 22, 2006)

casper mike I just wanted to let you know once again... everything you say is gay.


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## fred norquist (Apr 4, 2007)

I surfed it on friday, it is definetly shallow and retentive, i hit my feet bad(foot still bruised) when i plugged for a loop, not on the peices that make the feature, but on rocks under there you cant see. I talked to the designers, apparently they are tweaking it a bit, then building and island, and then a low water feature on the other side. hopefully the tweaking will result in a sick wave at high water!! Then the low-water feature should be sick also!
im stoked


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## fred norquist (Apr 4, 2007)

deepsouthpaddler said:


> That looks nice!!! Spectacular before and after skills. How is the hole right now? Rententiveness?
> 
> Where exactly is this located in glenwood?


its located at the far west exit in glenwood by the mall, Glenwood Canyon kayak, dairy queen, target etc...


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## Jiberish (Oct 20, 2003)

*wow*

Looks exciting! looks like that will become something worthy with more water! (which won't be a problem this year). Can't wait to get down there. Super super stoked! Thanks to all who helped. I know a lot of peeps are looking forward to seeing it, and the potential to bring team trials, and even worls possibly to Glenwood.... who knows 

BG


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## caspermike (Mar 9, 2007)

LiquidGuy87 said:


> casper mike I just wanted to let you know once again... everything you say is gay.


wow, and from the description that fred gave. feet bouncing off rocks yeah way to go liquidgay what are you on this post talking about that is not a 3 foot pile and i was clearly pointing it out. 

theres to many none kayakers posers on this forum. the kind that live right next to the river but instead of going they play video games with there little brothers.


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## David Spiegel (Sep 26, 2007)

Team trials/worlds will not likely ever come to Glenwood. Unless you can truly make a big, good wave, you are out of luck. Both events tend to be wave events at this point.

Nationals...maybe, if you can somehow manage to out-do the Salida hole... unlikely.


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## Jahve (Oct 31, 2003)

Everyone has to think about how long it took for BV and Salida to evolve - with constant work into what they are now. I think it is rare to get a great or perfect spot on the first try. These spots are a work in progress and will need upkeep and tweaking every year if they are to work like we all want them to. 

Salida has had a few spots come and go and the BV spot was a bust the entire first year. Now it is much different because of the yearly work of Harv/Selby et. al. 

I cant wait for the high water and the BV spots.. I even got to like that bottom hole in BV.

It sounds like you guys have a commited group that will continue to work on the spot. Most likely it will not be a perfect spot from day one but with a couple of years of tweakin who knows.


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## LiquidGuy87 (Aug 22, 2006)

No... nothing against what you've said about the G-wood hole. I just don't like you. You know those people who just piss you off talking even when they may be right? Yea... that's you... tool from Casper.


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## LiquidGuy87 (Aug 22, 2006)

On a positive note... 

Super stoked to check it out. I may be in the G-wood area. I'll post a few more pics if I make it down. Not going to travel for it yet... hopefully someday it'll be worthy of travel from this dismal place we all know as the front range. 

Has anybody had a visual on Barrel? I'd like to get a few laps... ice?


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## caspermike (Mar 9, 2007)

i say one thing and you step all over my shit? who is the tool? and whats your reason for hating me? 

i remember when you posers came up to the casper park in the fall with your video cameras thinking your shit was big and bad. ha ive seen beginners throw cleaner tricks


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## TheKid (Aug 25, 2004)

Mike. You need to slow down. I have seen you paddle, both on your home turf and on the road. Just because you are the big boy in the Casper park doesn't mean abything! You need to realize that you are only a true bad ass when you can destroy every hole you show up to like Myeres, Volt, Guska, or Hotze do (Have you ever noticed that none of these boys run there mouth like a fool?). Your mouth is constantly writing checks that your skills can't cash out side of your home feature. So I implore you to watch what you say. It is easy to be high and mighty on the internet when you live all alone up there in WY. But you are making a very poor reputation for yourself.


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## caspermike (Mar 9, 2007)

reed what did i say to make me self look like an ass? i post one thing and liquidhomo comes on and says anything i say is gay? come on. if he wants to bring it let him. and never once did i say is was the shit.


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## David Spiegel (Sep 26, 2007)

Casper: If you need to brag about your tricks for people to know about them, they ain't that dope.

That said, good point on the fine tuning thing. Someday it may turn out to be a great hole but for now it looks a little shallow. I just hope they did it with rocks instead of cement like pueblo....I have a feeling Pueblo is going to hard to tweak (although I'll still spend a bunch of time there since its only 40 minutes from school...)


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## TheKid (Aug 25, 2004)

Ok I see your point. But let me just say one thing. Many young paddlers have learned the hard way, about when they have to bite their tongue. Even if you feel you are write sometimes you have to be the bigger person, and let the other person run their mouth. If you need examples of the point I am making I will give you Hotze, and Finney's phone numbers. If you want to be taken seriously as a person who is an upper level paddler. You must be an ambassador for the sport and what ever company you wish to possibly represent. If you do this it will pay off ten fold. You will gain the respect of many and some people may even want to hook you up. Amateur kayakers get breaks not because of their skills but because of their personality. This is all I really have to say. I hope you agree, and if you decide to take my advice I hope it works in your favor.


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## Jiberish (Oct 20, 2003)

Team trials could easily be brought to glenwood. It was on the blackwater in New york a few years back on a small wave that was very shallow. Brought up to garb the next round.... but we also have to keep in mind that we will see easily 5k pluss cfs... at least in run-off. Theres no reason in years to come that that can't provide a wave worthy of team trials....


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## COUNT (Jul 5, 2005)

Hey, guys, I moved the Wyoming Creeking Stoke pics to a seperate thread. Not trying to censor in any way just thought it was a topic deserving of it's own thread and both will now get better attention as it is.

COUNT


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## caspermike (Mar 9, 2007)

5k is a great amount of water. hopefully there's enough gradient and constriction to make some waves or a nice hole. the obstruction is obviously there.


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## David Spiegel (Sep 26, 2007)

There is a reason it was moved to Garb the next year and that the blackwater team trials was considered horrible. 

I've heard talk about having it at Garb for a second time in a row, especially with Candian trials at Chambly this time around. 

Either that or you could see Rock Island or I've heard a few mentions of the Wenatchee. Worlds/Team Trials are moving towards being big wave events. Now maybe things will change, but as of now I have never seen an artificial wave worthy of the event. The only one is M-Wave and we can't do it there for access reasons (plus M-wave was an accident).


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## fred norquist (Apr 4, 2007)

M-wave would not be a good idea, we are lucky to be able to paddle there now. A couple hundred kayakers in the middle of redneckness might not work in our favor. Otherwise, it might be fun, minus the shallowness at the trough!!


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## caspermike (Mar 9, 2007)

jackson hole has some sick freestlye features that come in like kings wave and lunch countrer. it would be hard setting a date for a known wave because the levels flucuate alot and plus there could easliy be a better place to play any where in the canyon 14,000 cfs in playboats is awsome looks kinda like a ocean.


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## -k- (Jul 15, 2005)

This is why the “Bureau of Wreck Everything” ticks me off so much. If they would have been allowed to put a park at the base of the fish ladder in Palisade, there would have been spring flows in May and June well over 10,000 CFS. Since they had six years of wading through the BS, the also had plenty of time to properly plan the features and they could have been epic.

Now they are having issues just trying to get three features with a 1.5’ drop, ridiculous. It’s good to see Glenwood Springs was able to get the park completed. It looks like it will be a great wave and I am glade to see most posters are so optimistic about.


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## Jiberish (Oct 20, 2003)

I agree they are going to more of a wave feature. However there has been talk about both wave and hole features. Im not sure where worlds is, but they definetly try to setup the team trials based on the worlds feature. Glenwood wwp is probably gonna be well over 12,000 cfs this year. Gard does't even have that much water, and is still a solid feature. ITs hard to say what the feature will turn out to be, but there is no reason that the possibility of having a wave should be ruled out, or better yet the combination of both. This would also be a team trials brought out west, which hasn't happened in a while. 

BG


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## Smokey Carter (Aug 31, 2005)

Wasn't the last time they had team trials in the west when they were doing a western and eastern team? I think it was in Bend when guys like Jason Bowerman were throwing down. 

The 2009 Worlds are in Thun, Switzerland. Pretty sure they're hoping for a wave. 

I think this is the spot at a level that is a little too high:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45OdUt4Wi94&feature=related


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## peterB (Nov 21, 2003)

This is not going to be a high water feature. Jason Designed it to be good up to South Canyon Flows. So when everyone else's parks are flowing you can surf local. 

Fred and Jake went down yesterday and should post with some video soon.

I am hoping to get down there today as well.

Peter


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## peterB (Nov 21, 2003)

Here is a short video that gives you an idea about the park. It was low this day 1400 cfs. It is not finished but it has plenty of power. It also highlights what I am most excited about which is getting out with my kids.

Peter

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## peterB (Nov 21, 2003)

let's try this again


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## Uncle B (Nov 14, 2003)

*Surfline*

Do you know the website surfline.com? It has webcams of surf breaks all over the west coast. Maybe we could get a webcam over the park, live streaming video, 24/7.


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## hobie (Nov 3, 2003)

It looks like you wait and see. From the look of that ramp into it, the amount of water potential, and the width, it could be a sick feature. Only time will tell.

h


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## latenightjoneser (Feb 6, 2004)

One of the reasons I was exicted about this project was because it might offer year-round playboating in Colorado, 2 hours from me.

It looks like that isn't going to happen. I am no expert, but the video tells me that the feature needs A LOT more water. Shoshone looks more fun than that "hole". Records show the Colorado at Glenwood above 3000 for about 15 weeks per year. Wouldn't it have made more sense to build features that go in the 1400-2500 range for the other 37 weeks? This data is from: USGS Surface Water data for Colorado: USGS Surface-Water Daily Statistics



Steamboat's features are fun (deep enough to loop) from 500-5000. 

I guess I misunderstood the goal of this project.


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## Force (Apr 27, 2004)

People please...building a feature is anything but an exact science. as anyone who paddles them knows. it takes a few season to perfect any feature and features change over time. i can't think of one feature in CO that people really enjoy now that was put in perfectly the first time and didn't require any modificiations. 

I'll try and limit my critiscms/critiques until i actually paddle the feature and get to see it at different Q's. Who knows at high flows that feature might be the best aerial throwing wave in the state? As someone who studied hydraulic jumps for my MS and given talks around CO about whitewater parks, I will say it is not as easy to design and then build these features as people think.


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## Electric-Mayhem (Jan 19, 2004)

That hole kind of reminds me of Hole Brother on the Black in Upstate New York, but in miniature. Its mostly the fact that the larger part of the feature so far is a big nasty shallow hole you don't wanna touch, with a nice little feature off the side that doesn't feed into the big part. I'll reserve judgment till we get some more normal flows in, but it seems to me that its to abrupt of a drop. 

The biggest mistake I see with parks when they are first built is that they tend to be too steep of a drop. If you look at most natural play spots, it very rarely drops in like that, and rather its a nice 35ish degree drop that is about 20-60 feet long. Such as the before mentioned Hole Brothers on the Black River:










I've noticed that most of the evolution of a play park involves a smoother drop, and you'd think they would just do it from the beginning. I am excited that the park is being created and also excited to see what it looks like with some more water. I do think it might need some tweaking though. Oh, and here is to knocking on wood that all this extra water won't wash it away this year.

JH


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## peterB (Nov 21, 2003)

I saw some video from last friday and it has filled in a bit and is getting quiet feisty. Jake was getting double loops and then getting pulled into the middle for a good stomping. That is at 1500cfs. there was a big difference between 1400 and 1500. I bet 1800 will meaty 2000 will wave and 3000 will begin to wash. 1400 actually had some good potential, I think if people (me) weren't coming off of the couch it would be better than any feature on Shoshone at the same level. 

Anyway, I will keep the surf reports coming. I have some good probe units.

Peter


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## caspermike (Mar 9, 2007)

latenightjoneser said:


> One of the reasons I was exicted about this project was because it might offer year-round playboating in Colorado, 2 hours from me.
> 
> It looks like that isn't going to happen. I am no expert, but the video tells me that the feature needs A LOT more water. Shoshone looks more fun than that "hole". Records show the Colorado at Glenwood above 3000 for about 15 weeks per year. Wouldn't it have made more sense to build features that go in the 1400-2500 range for the other 37 weeks? This data is from: USGS Surface Water data for Colorado: USGS Surface-Water Daily Statistics
> 
> ...


if gary lacy did it sounds about right. same thing with casper park, 3000 is when it gets good. but if it is going to get that big expect a good hole. we have split feature in casper that could be improved to push more water through low water side to make it better during low water but its all good. makes for all the more enjoyment in the summer. pogies suck for freestyle!


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## phlyingfish (Nov 15, 2006)

Electric, I'm going to have to poke some holes in your Hole Bros. reference (it was my home spot in college). 

For one thing, the geology is completely disimilar between the two spots. The reason that the Black River has such great play is beacuse the river bed is composed of gently sloping limestone ledges (the ramp into Hole Bros. is way flatter than 35 degrees, you can surf the trough like a wave). It looks to me like this feature in GS is made of boulders, not a single ledge.

The GS spot is also on a much narrower piece of river. The Black at Hole Bros. appears to be at least twice as wide as the spot in GS. 

Basically, you can't just make Hole Bros. in Glenwood Springs. Different channels with different riverbeds require different design approaches. I think this spot has some potential at higher flows. I bet that they can tweak the design so that it also produces a more retentive feature at lower flows (I didn't see anybody staying in that hole beyond a front surf). Like Force said, these things rarely perform perfectly on the first go round.


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## Electric-Mayhem (Jan 19, 2004)

I didn't say that we should make Hole Brothers in Glenwood or anywhere in CO. Geology doesn't really play into this either, since its being created and could be created in the theme of whatever style the builder felt like.

While I don't want a "Hole Brothers of the Colorado", you can take some hints of what makes a good hole from it. It doesn't just dump over a jumble of rocks. Its a nice long shallow slope into the hole (like I said, 20-60ft. with a 25-35 degree slope), backed up by a small rock ledge with a decent eddy to make the feature. Same thing at the Route 3 wave upstream, which isn't a natural spot and one of the few that tries to deal in way that nature would create (it even maintains the nasty skin tearing Geology of the Black River). Why that doesn't happen right off the bat for Colorado play parks I'm not sure. I imagine it has something to do with the cost and the logistical issues of creating a big slab in the river. Oh well, I'm sure it will be a decent feature at some levels.

JH


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## fred norquist (Apr 4, 2007)

*video and pictures*

here is a quick overview of the feature with pictures and video, check it out

http://rfkayakers.blogspot.com


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## Jiberish (Oct 20, 2003)

sick Fred! I will try to come down possibly this weekend.... I have two of my last hockey games, but might manage a friday afternoon sesh! I'll let you all know!


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## yetigonecrazy (May 23, 2005)

Force said:


> People please...building a feature is anything but an exact science. as anyone who paddles them knows. it takes a few season to perfect any feature and features change over time. i can't think of one feature in CO that people really enjoy now that was put in perfectly the first time and didn't require any modificiations.
> 
> I'll try and limit my critiscms/critiques until i actually paddle the feature and get to see it at different Q's. Who knows at high flows that feature might be the best aerial throwing wave in the state? As someone who studied hydraulic jumps for my MS and given talks around CO about whitewater parks, I will say it is not as easy to design and then build these features as people think.


Bingo! I was going to say, give it a few months and at least ONE high water season before you make your judgment! Look at the Gunnison park, every year it's gotten different and they've had to change stuff three or four times. When you have a river with a dynamic flow window of 10,000 cfs (or more) difference between high and low levels shit is going to get tossed around and moved and filled in and scooped out. Two words: fluid dynamics!


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## Jiberish (Oct 20, 2003)

true that. GLenwood woods water supply will be very great this year, as it usually is in terms of most the states volume. South canyon is a wave with a very small windown, but is great around 3500 cfs. The potential that this could hold will be interesting to see as it plans out. I believe a lot of us our just uber anxiouse to the power this winter will bring down the river. I know im super anxiouse.... and I don't believe im a lone. (pretty sure I have some spelling errors as well)....

Only a few more months

Ben Guska


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## yetigonecrazy (May 23, 2005)

I am really curious to see what happens at all the flow levels.

There has yet to be a park built on a river with such a large window in Colorado. Theres a few parks that see upwards of four or five thousand cfs, smelter, confluenza, gunny, salida maybe...) but to my knowledge this is the first WW feature on the mighty colorado isnt it? Combine the full flood force of the Colorado, add in the Roaring Fork, and it can easily reach 15,000 cfs there, WAY more than any park in CO. So what happens at that level? Thats what I am curious to see!


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## cynical smith (Feb 12, 2008)

*i think it sucks!!!!*

just got done trying to play in it. i guess i had too big of expectations. pretty much water pouring over big cement blocks that you bouce off of as you try to get your ass out of the center of the feature. hardly fun.... not trying be a DICK but i think this feature needs some rethinking. the shape is all wrong. look at salida. at low water it is still pretty much a small scale of what it looks like at big water. if you take the gw feature, it looks like shit at 1500 cfs and that is more water than salida most of its season. at big flows i have a feeling it will probably kill a few people. plus all the water on the river left half is being diverted to the wave right now giving it more flow than it will have normaly at 1500 cfs. when the diversion is removed and the water is flowing thru the whole channel it will be even more worthless.

just my thoughts.

monte mcconnell


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## mrekid (May 13, 2004)

yetigonecrazy said:


> I am really curious to see what happens at all the flow levels.
> 
> There has yet to be a park built on a river with such a large window in Colorado. Theres a few parks that see upwards of four or five thousand cfs, smelter, confluenza, gunny, salida maybe...) but to my knowledge this is the first WW feature on the mighty colorado isnt it? Combine the full flood force of the Colorado, add in the Roaring Fork, and it can easily reach 15,000 cfs there, WAY more than any park in CO. So what happens at that level? Thats what I am curious to see!


Just an aside but I have personally witnessed barrel at 18,000, the fork at 8,000 and this does not include at least three side creeks all of which are capable of passing a couple hundred CFS. Anyway long story short there is the possibility of big flows, lets hope they anchored the structures well. There will be some serious shear stresses here.


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## cynical smith (Feb 12, 2008)

my bad, the water is being diverted on the river right side to the left side. but none the less it still needs some love. maby it will be good for it to just blow out and start over...


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## caspermike (Mar 9, 2007)

15,000 cfs will probably blow a feature out if not anchored correctly. it would be hard to design a park that will work both at 5000+cfs plus even down to 500cfs. unless you have multiple feature to play with. but as long as one feature its hard to get it all in one.


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## Jiberish (Oct 20, 2003)

I think we will just have to wait and see. Its not even done yet...but It looks like it will produce something with some more water... south canyon comes in at like 3100, so its not impossible....but we will just have to wait and see! Uber excited!

Ben Guska


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## caspermike (Mar 9, 2007)

to a positive note casper ww park reached flows close to 5000 one day this last year. massize 12+rollers and one sick freestanding wave where anytrick is possible. we had video footage but drunk friends misplace shit easy. 
gary designed the casper park and its diffenetely a big water park doesn't start getting good till about 1500-1700 cfs. it did reach 4000 couple different times with excellent results. but the thing with casper 4 differeent features and they are all good at some time or another so i'm saying more than likely itll be a great feature.


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## mvhyde (Feb 3, 2004)

*Gradiant Vee*

Gradiant Vee is the phrase and the engineering that should have happened. If you look at the main hole in BV or Salida, it's what they have. That way the hole is pretty much consistent as flows move up and down. Sounds like the engineer was smoking something he should not have been.

Anyway, it's supposed to be like a funnel


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## hobie (Nov 3, 2003)

I paddled down from Shoshone yesterday and checked it out up close. I did not jump in as I was in the Green boat but was in the water up close. I think this thing has a lot of potential. It is still pretty low and looked sticky but I think we might see a pretty sick feature when the water comes up. My fingers are crossed.

Otherwise if you need to get warmed up for the season the 10 miles between Sho-Sho and Glenwood are all clear of ice.


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## RiverRestoration.org (Apr 27, 2004)

Thank you all who gave the positive feed back we needed to fine tune the structure. In-stream work finished yesterday. There are two waves now. The right is a good front surfer with a pile that you can spin on, this is also the boat chute. The left is a large wave hole with some meat, but very soft shoulders. Have fun!

Please remove sticky


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## RiverRestoration.org (Apr 27, 2004)

Glenwood Springs Post Independent - Valley News


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## latenightjoneser (Feb 6, 2004)

RiverRestoration.org said:


> Glenwood Springs Post Independent - Valley News


 
Did this one feature really cost $888,000, as reported in the article?


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## RiverRestoration.org (Apr 27, 2004)

Construction was $888,838. Over 2,400 tons of boulders were used up to 16 feet deep, and 80 feet long under the river bed.


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## krashhadley (Mar 13, 2008)

This park is gonna be so much fun, I can't wait till I get some


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## RiverRestoration.org (Apr 27, 2004)

We are happy to see the crowds already showing up at GWSWWP, including the riverboarders. This site is obviously going to get a lot of use so please respect it by staying on the designated trails, sidewalks and rocks. We are going to be doing a lot of planting this week. Please don't trample the veg, you have more respect than that. 

Also, please do not drive on the north side. Driving on the north side crosses a federal boundary line, and without a permit you will probablly be violating obscure laws, upsetting CDOT and creating problems for other enthusiasits. 

The City is developing plans for parking and drop off areas, please be paitent, respectful and not a problem.


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## steven (Apr 2, 2004)

how do you get there, and where does one park now


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## RiverRestoration.org (Apr 27, 2004)

steven said:


> how do you get there, and where does one park now


Take I-70 to Exit 114, cross the river, turn upstream on Devereux Road, park on the South shoulder, look both ways, cross the street and take the sidewalk back downstream to about 50 feet before the stopsign where you will see a graveled path that leads to the river.


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## Jiberish (Oct 20, 2003)

I had the opportunity to stop in today, didnt have time to boat. But it was amazing seeing 2 people on surf/boogie boards, and another 12+ boaters. I looked down and there were multiple people cheering! It is amazing to see this finally done....with a little more water, I see this park really turning some heads, but we can only for sure know as the water turns on! It was nice to get in my boat today (shoshone), get back in time to study,and then hockey in the eveing! SO STOKED for this spring! Its amazing to be back in Colorado...I really missed it!

Ben Guska


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## luke c (Apr 25, 2005)

We had a lot of fun at park on sunday after shoshone . Its great that this is in glenwood it definitely worth the drive from fruita. Now we have to find out about the wave below the new fish ladder.


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## RiverRestoration.org (Apr 27, 2004)

*After Pic*

Someone asked for another after pic... Happy runoff.


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## one legged wonder (Apr 19, 2011)

wait that is what the glenwood play wave looks like right now?


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## Chaser (Apr 22, 2008)

http://glenwoodwebcam.com has real time video


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## johnsonkid (May 23, 2011)

jackson hole has some sick freestlye features that come in like kings wave and lunch countrer. it would be hard setting a date for a known wave because the levels flucuate alot and plus there could easliy be a better place to play any where in the canyon 14,000 cfs in playboats is awsome looks kinda like a ocean.



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## johnsonkid (May 23, 2011)

thank you very much


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