# input about Saturn Rafts



## wsmckinney

http://www.mountainbuzz.com/forums/f44/saturn-rafts-47460.html

I believe that link will have the info you desire, sir. The search link probably has all the answers to any boating question you will ever have. Welcome to the community and happy boating to you!


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## BilloutWest

Are there any changes to Saturn Rafts this year?

I know they upgraded their valves a year or so ago.

I see NRS stocks them and that seems to make a repeat of the 'Costco bargain' unlikely.


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## Grifgav

I would look at Rocky Mountain Rafts, pretty close to the same money for a welded PVC boat.


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## colorado_steve

shouldn't be too long before the pretentious sotar/maravia/avon owners enter this thread and start bashing saturn......

maybe look into used boats. buy what you can afford and have a blast out there!! i row an old beat up nrs bucket boat... best $500 i ever spent


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## lhowemt

colorado_steve said:


> shouldn't be too long before the pretentious sotar/maravia/avon owners enter this thread and start bashing saturn......


Way to pick a fight.


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## dirtbagkayaker

Seems like Saturn is finding its way into many of our lives. I think they work just fine for private boaters. But I would agree w/ Grifgav and take a good look at Rocky Mountain and Vangaurd too. I have friends paddling both and they seem to be great boats. I even saw a guy ripping it up in a Baltic last summer.


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## cataraftgirl

BilloutWest said:


> Are there any changes to Saturn Rafts this year?
> 
> I know they upgraded their valves a year or so ago.
> 
> I see NRS stocks them and that seems to make a repeat of the 'Costco bargain' unlikely.


NRS stocks Saturn rafts ???


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## Grifgav

cataraftgirl said:


> NRS stocks Saturn rafts ???


 
I certainly don't see them on the NRS website


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## BilloutWest

cataraftgirl said:


> NRS stocks Saturn rafts ???


Oops.

I think I might have glanced at a Saturn site that advertised NRS frames etc. for Saturn Rafts.

sorry.

It states
*



We've, (Saturn), also partnered with NRS to bring our customers the greatest line of whitewater accessories in the world. This gives us the tremendous ability to put together a custom Saturn Raft Package including rowing frames, fishing frames, oars, paddles, PFD's, throwbags, coolers, dryboxes, and ANY other product NRS carries. We provide special discounts when packaged with one of our rafts, boats, or kayaks which ensures our customers receive the very best value on the market! Give us a call and we'll help package your new SATURN raft with ANY customized NRS frame package at the best pricing in the USA!

Click to expand...

*


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## cataraftgirl

BilloutWest said:


> Oops.
> 
> I think I might have glanced at a Saturn site that advertised NRS frames for Saturn Rafts.
> 
> sorry.


Thanks for clearing that up. I was scratching my head on that one.


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## Avatard

dirtbagkayaker said:


> Seems like Saturn is finding its way into many of our lives. I think they work just fine for private boaters. But I would agree w/ Grifgav and take a good look at Rocky Mountain and Vangaurd too. I have friends paddling both and they seem to be great boats. I even saw a guy ripping it up in a Baltic last summer.


I see plenty of them for sale on craigslist. Some even sell theirs for less than you can buy new


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## elkhaven

EC357 said:


> Thinking of buying a Saturn raft 15 footer. Cant afford a Maravia, Avon, Aire, etc. I like the specs on the boat and need something for the middle fork permit I drew this year. Any feedback positive or negative would be appreciated. Thanks. Paddle on.


If it were me and I was going to spend $1500 on a boat I would definitely buy a used hyside, maravia, aire, avon, sotar, etc. over a new mass import boat (odyssey, saturn, etc.). I feel very confident that a 10-15 year old boat from one of the long established companies will out last a brand new cheap glued pvc boat. 

My first boat was an Eclipse (I believe related to Odyssey), I bought it from a rental company I worked for when it was three years old, after 5 more years it was literally leaking from every seam. I tried patching, filling pin holes with various things wader patches, really anything I could get, but every day I'd find more and more leaks. I ultimately gave it to a friend and bought a heavily used 8 year old hyside for $1000 which I used a ton for another 12 years. I recently sold that boat for $1400. There is no way after 15-20 years an inexpensive Chinese import will be worth a penny, much less as much or more than it was when you bought it...

That's just what I'd do if I were in your shoes.


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## dirtbagkayaker

elkhaven said:


> If it were me and I was going to spend $1500 on a boat I would definitely buy a used hyside, maravia, aire, avon, sotar, etc.


Show me the $1500 Maravia, aire, sotar, or hyside 13'+ SB raft in good condition with out an outfitters tattoo down the side and 12 patches and I'll show you a "sold" boat! 

Try more like 3k for a good one.


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## elkhaven

Maybe I should simplify my statement. I'd trust a 20 year old hyside, NRS, Maravia, ryken, momentum, etc. etc. over a 5 year old saturn, odyssey, star, etc., etc. I believe that with a little patience you could find the former at a similar price as buying the latter new... however many $$$ that is.

But yes I agree most "premium" boats in great shape go for closer to 3k, but I have seen plenty in fair sape in the last year for 2K and below...

Here is a current deal on a fair to good Aire 156D with frame, oars etc. $2500 100 miles from me. The Sale Room at CrossCurrents- Boats

Enjoy!


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## carvedog

EC357 said:


> Thinking of buying a Saturn raft 15 footer. Cant afford a Maravia, Avon, Aire, etc. I like the specs on the boat and need something for the middle fork permit I drew this year. Any feedback positive or negative would be appreciated. Thanks. Paddle on.


When is your permit?


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## dirtbagkayaker

elkhaven said:


> But yes I agree most "premium" boats in great shape go for closer to 3k, but I have seen plenty in fair sape in the last year for 2K and below...
> 
> Here is a current deal on a fair to good Aire 156D with frame, oars etc. $2500 100 miles from me. The Sale Room at CrossCurrents- Boats
> 
> Enjoy!


The tributarys are good little boats. But I would not put them in the "Just as good as Aire branded" boats. The Aire boat looks used to death. Hell, who knows, that Trib could have been built my the same guy who just got hired last week to build saturns on the vary same boat building table?? . You never really know. So, why not just buy the saturn?


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## elkhaven

I was talking about the 156D 2nd from the top of the page. Aire, not Trib... so why buy a Saturn?


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## Avatard

dirtbagkayaker said:


> Show me the $1500 Maravia, aire, sotar, or hyside 13'+ SB raft in good condition with out an outfitters tattoo down the side and 12 patches and I'll show you a "sold" boat!
> 
> Try more like 3k for a good one.


Yeah the Grey Aire branded one., without 12 patches.

If it's a rental/demo doesn't it only have a 5 year (maybe bought and used by the owner so no commercial service according to aire?)?

agreed 2500 with frame and oars I would take that boat over spending the same on a brand new saturn with frame and oars. And after 5 more years you could still sell the Aire faster and for more $$$ 

Sounds like dirt bag needs to pony up to the bar, pick up his new boat, and stop buying those pieces of s*** boats.


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## wildh2onriver

You really do get what you pay for--generally. It's all in what your long term expectations are in relation to what you can afford. Rocky Mountain rafts are PVC, but welded--so little chance of a seam failure. I can promise you this: if my finances didn't allow me to buy one of the 10 year, premium boat brands, and there were no good used and affordable options out there, I would buy the RM over a Saturn. That being said, there's also something called re-sale value to consider because your needs and/or finances could change...good brands hold their value far better than the glued china boats and heat welded RM boats. Whatever gets you on the river--that's the most important thing. Personally, I really don't think that those who who feel that they must purchase the best, and latest and greatest gear and boats constantly are very bright--or perhaps there's self esteem issues (the former being me, as I know I'm a pretty bad ass boater...lol). Or, they have more money than god (definitely not me)?


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## colorado_steve

lhowemt said:


> Way to pick a fight.


did i strike a chord with you laura? lol... if the shoe fits i guess


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## bucketboater

EC357 said:


> Thinking of buying a Saturn raft 15 footer. Cant afford a Maravia, Avon, Aire, etc. I like the specs on the boat and need something for the middle fork permit I drew this year. Any feedback positive or negative would be appreciated. Thanks. Paddle on.


 This post pisses me off and it has nothing to do with your interest in a poverty raft.


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## Learch

I'd buy an RMR before any other PVC raft that is glued/ solvent welded together. I ended up with a used Sotar for a really good price, but I would have purchased an RMR if that deal didn't come along. Saturns just plain aren't put together as well. The floors are better on the RMR by a longshot, and they have a more reliable assembly process.


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## dsmoake

I bought a Saturn 4 or 5 years ago from Rocky Mountain before they were making their own rafts. I was in the same boat, a friend had a Salt permit and it was the only boat I could afford at the time. I hate the valves but they have been replaced with a real valve in the newer models. I have not had any issues with my Saturn but had Rocky Mountain been making their boats I would have spent the extra money. My 2 cents.
Dave


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## BilloutWest

How many here have had or seen blown seams on a Saturn?


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## thinksnow

I agree with Grifgav. Rocky Mountain Rafts put out a really good product for the $. Welded seams not glued. Plus I have not seen many for sale on the buzz. That has got to say something. Although I would throw down on a 5-10 year old Hyside for the same $.


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## dirtbagkayaker

Avatard said:


> Sounds like dirt bag needs to pony up to the bar, pick up his new boat, and stop buying those pieces of s*** boats.



Did you pass 3rd grade math?? how does 2500 = 1500 

+ that boat was beat to hell!


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## pinemnky13

Whatever gets you down the river. That said I'm guy who started the thread "why i did'nt buy a saturn" thread and the "why I bought an expensive made in USA thread. 
If you want to float and run the rivers that we have out west, get what you can afford. I got a grat deal on my 1st boat 1500 for the tubes and a frame, maxxon and a gary frame. I loved it and when i finally came around to getting an Aire i saved up and sold the boat that I had. 
Get it, if you wind up not having the time and the places to go rafting or, not fall in love with the whole rafting thing you'll sell it for alot less than you paid for it. But if you do fall for the whole enclhilada you will upgrade sooner than later.
I will say look at the rmr's and vanguards or maxxon before you make a final decsion, but hey whatever floats your boat.
See you on the river!

Christian


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## pinemnky13

Oh yeah, please don't flame that response. I've just been rehabilitated after the past couple of years....


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## colorado_steve

pinemnky13 said:


> Oh yeah, please don't flame that response. I've just been rehabilitated after the past couple of years....


that was a response i can respect. thank you for proving me wrong


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## 2kanzam

dirtbagkayaker said:


> Show me the $1500 Maravia, aire, sotar, or hyside 13'+ SB raft in good condition with out an outfitters tattoo down the side and 12 patches and I'll show you a "sold" boat!
> 
> Try more like 3k for a good one.


 
I can show you a warehouse full maravias for $1500. TONS of Hysides from outfitters for $500-$1500. And various other NRS and aires all over the map. All hold air very well. Right about now is a good time to hit the guy up, last time I was there he had 200-300 boats easy. Never seen anything like it in my life (he does warranty work for NRS)

I have two 14' SBers (NRS/Hyside) bought for a total of $1700. One is close to 30 years old but the other is practically new.

Buyt, it certainly is out of the ordinary and is a closely guarded secret of mine!


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## EC357

Where is this warehouse and how do i get a hold of them??


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## 2kanzam

EC357 said:


> Where is this warehouse and how do i get a hold of them??


Come to my place in WV and I'll blindfold you and drive you there. Then we'll float the New and you can buy the beer.


It's crazy indeed, he basically gets boats from all up and down the east coast from various outfitters.


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## EC357

I like the float the New part,but not gonna be able to make it to West Virginia anytime soon...


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## brendodendo

dirtbagkayaker said:


> Show me the $1500 Maravia, aire, sotar, or hyside 13'+ SB raft in good condition with out an outfitters tattoo down the side and 12 patches and I'll show you a "sold" boat!
> 
> Try more like 3k for a good one.


whitewater raft

I found other great boat deals as well.


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## wildh2onriver

brendodendo said:


> whitewater raft I found other great boat deals as well.[/QUOTE
> 
> That's a great price for what sounds like a solid boat.


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## BilloutWest

2kanzam said:


> I can show you a warehouse full maravias for $1500. TONS of Hysides from outfitters for $500-$1500. And various other NRS and aires all over the map. All hold air very well. Right about now is a good time to hit the guy up, last time I was there he had 200-300 boats easy. Never seen anything like it in my life (he does warranty work for NRS)
> 
> I have two 14' SBers (NRS/Hyside) bought for a total of $1700. One is close to 30 years old but the other is practically new.
> 
> Buyt, it certainly is out of the ordinary and is a closely guarded secret of mine!



No more teasing.

Just how cheap can you get a used contractor Saturn there?


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## [email protected]

I own a 15 foot Saturn raft and 16 foot Sotar cat. The Saturn is an okay boat that I bought on sale when we were short a boat for a GC trip. It has done fine for 5 years now so no complaints other than the tube diameter varies quite a bit based on air pressure. It gets used a lot as a loaner on trips we want to travel light.


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## 2kanzam

BilloutWest said:


> No more teasing.
> 
> Just how cheap can you get a used contractor Saturn there?


 
IF he were to have one...he would prolly pay you to take it.


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## BilloutWest

2kanzam said:


> IF he were to have one...he would prolly pay you to take it.


Would that drive be to the SSE along 64/77 for about an hour?

I can smell the fresh glue on a Saturn from here already.


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## 2kanzam

BilloutWest said:


> Would that drive be to the SSE along 64/77 for about an hour?
> 
> I can smell the fresh glue on a Saturn from here already.


 
I've said too much


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## upshitscreek

2kanzam said:


> (he does warranty work for NRS)


there's only one NRS repair shop in WV,cupcake.........


check your pm's,EC357.


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## 2kanzam

upshitscreek said:


> there's only one NRS repair shop in WV,cupcake.........
> 
> 
> check your pm's,EC357.


 
When did I say there was two?


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## upshitscreek

you didn't say at all. i think you missed my point,cupcake.

there is this thing called process of elimination and it gets really easy to figure out what shop you are talking about when the list is only 1 long, ya know?


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## 2kanzam

upshitscreek said:


> you didn't say at all. i think you missed my point,cupcake.
> 
> Contact Us - West Virginia Raft Repair


 
I think you are taking me too seriously, shitcake. I didn't think that you guys were actually scrambling the subarus for a drive to appalachia to buy rafts...oh like I said plenty of $1500 Maravias.


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## upshitscreek

dude, it seems you're the guy saying "i know where some great,cheap boats are but i'm not going to tell you." reads kind of lame. perhaps the shop knows about this thing called Fedex and can ship him a good boat?


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## 2kanzam

upshitscreek said:


> dude, it seems you're the guy saying "i know where some great,cheap boats are but i'm not going to tell you." reads kind of lame, dude. maybe the shop knows about this thing called Fedex and can ship him a good boat?


 
The guy doesn't have saturns (that I've seen)...but good thing you swept in and saved the day. Now you can let the thread get back to topic


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## upshitscreek

been drinking allot of that elk river water the past few weeks, yes? i realize 4-5 pages of forum talk is tough for some to follow in all it's incredible "subtleties" though. hang in there, cupcake.


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## EC357

So thank you everybody for the input. I ended up buying the 2006 Aire 156D and an Nrs fishing frame with 3 10' Carlisle oars!! Really stoked to Get this boat and run the Middle fork and Main this year and still in the lottery for the Yampa!! Woohoo lets all pray for more snow out west and have an awesome year!! Thanks, Erik


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## EC357

The Sale Room at CrossCurrents- Boats


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## jpbay

EC357 said:


> So thank you everybody for the input. I ended up buying the 2006 Aire 156D and an Nrs fishing frame with 3 10' Carlisle oars!! Really stoked to Get this boat and run the Middle fork and Main this year and still in the lottery for the Yampa!! Woohoo lets all pray for more snow out west and have an awesome year!! Thanks, Erik


 Great boat Enjoy! I have 156R same year with no problems. You did well pilgrim.


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## Avatard

EC357 said:


> So thank you everybody for the input. I ended up buying the 2006 Aire 156D and an Nrs fishing frame with 3 10' Carlisle oars!! Really stoked to Get this boat and run the Middle fork and Main this year and still in the lottery for the Yampa!! Woohoo lets all pray for more snow out west and have an awesome year!! Thanks, Erik


What? Dirtbagkayaker didn't buy that? You made a good purchase these boats are solid. Sell it in ten years for a nominal rent or keep it until all the pvc has worn away


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## BilloutWest

*Able to lift 50-150 lbs.*










Independant Outdoor Sales Representative for Costco Special Events (Medford, Redding, Sacramento)


Independant Outdoor Sales Representative for Costco Special Events

========



> We are seeking a high-volume sales associate who wants to turn sales skills and enthusiasm into a sizeable income. You will be paid a healthy commission and $15/hr hourly wage as a Canyon Inflatables Sales representative selling inflatable rafts, kayaks, SUP boards, and boats in Costco. Special Event Shows run 9-10 days with the specific event dates for this position as follows;
> 
> SALES EVENTS SUMMARY
> 
> Medford, OR: 5/1 - 5/11 (Staffing 11 Days)
> 
> Redding, CA: 5/15 - 5/25 (Staffing 11 Days)
> 
> Sacramento,CA: 5/28 - 6/8 (Staffing 12 Days)
> 
> Event Working Hours:
> M-F 10:00am - 8:30pm
> Sat. 9:30am - 6:00pm
> Sun. 10:00am - 6:00pm


=============

You thinking what I'm thinking?
Your wages pay for an employee discounted Saturn?

Hey Hey Hey Hey

At least I provided a heads up what and when.


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## Avatard

I don't understand the dba relationship? If you go to the Canyon Inflatables website the boats they showcase don't appear to be saturn rafts. The costco pic doesn't even show cats which is canyons main focus? Maybe this Is saturn using a confusing name to sell their product (ie canyon Inflatables not canyon whitewater inflatables?)

"The Canyon Inflatables Sales Representative will setup the event and perform live demonstrations showcasing each product. The primary focus is to increase the sales of Canyon Inflatables (dba Saturn Rafts) products while simultaneously enhancing the Saturn brand. "


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## Avatard

Avatard said:


> I don't understand the dba relationship? If you go to the Canyon Inflatables website the boats they showcase don't appear to be saturn rafts. The costco pic doesn't even show cats which is canyons main focus? Maybe this Is saturn using a confusing name to sell their product (ie canyon Inflatables not canyon whitewater inflatables?)
> 
> "The Canyon Inflatables Sales Representative will setup the event and perform live demonstrations showcasing each product. The primary focus is to increase the sales of Canyon Inflatables (dba Saturn Rafts) products while simultaneously enhancing the Saturn brand. "


Ok it's clearer now. Saturn rafts are now going by the name Canyon Inflatables. You can put lipstick on a pig.

Canyon Whitewater Inflatables out of Oregon makes frames, sells other gear and their own cat designs and some imported welded boats as well as the Maravia line of encapsulated urethane boats. They just happen to use the Canyoninflatables.com website which they registered before saturn changed their name (and coincidentally haven't updated the website since


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## elkhaven

EC357 said:


> The Sale Room at CrossCurrents- Boats


I almost bought that boat twice this fall... The first time he said it was sold (I said I've give him a card # and be there in the morning, but no go...) then I drove by in mid september and it was still there, I asked again and he said he'd sell it and went on to tell me that it still had warranty left, which I knew shouldn't be the case. When I quized him on it, he said he bought all his boats as retail boats and then rents them for a couple years and sells them as non-commercial. I just don't like that kind of BS, so I called Aire and found out it was sold as an outfitter boat. It just really pissed me off that the guy just insisted that it still had warranty left, even though I called aire with the SN and they said it wasn't. 

It just kind of put me off on buying from him so I passed on it... I was working in Craig in early January and saw it still sitting there at his shop and was surprised. By the way the price has dropped from 3200 in september to 2500 now...I think he should give me a comission 

With all that said I think it's a good boat and a great deal. You'll really enjoy it!

Good luck


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## lhowemt

Avatard said:


> Ok it's clearer now. Saturn rafts are now going by the name Canyon Inflatables. You can put lipstick on a pig.
> 
> Canyon Whitewater Inflatables out of Oregon makes frames, sells other gear and their own cat designs and some imported welded boats as well as the Maravia line of encapsulated urethane boats. They just happen to use the Canyoninflatables.com website which they registered before saturn changed their name (and coincidentally haven't updated the website since


This makes me wonder if Mr. Popularity, Orto, has gotten together with boicatr or not. I doubt it.


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## cataraftgirl

lhowemt said:


> This makes me wonder if Mr. Popularity, Orto, has gotten together with boicatr or not. I doubt it.


I'd almost forgotten about that. My money says probably not. But now I'm curious???


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## carvedog

EC357 said:


> So thank you everybody for the input. I ended up buying the 2006 Aire 156D and an Nrs fishing frame with 3 10' Carlisle oars!! Really stoked to Get this boat and run the Middle fork and Main this year and still in the lottery for the Yampa!! Woohoo lets all pray for more snow out west and have an awesome year!! Thanks, Erik


That's great. Good for you. 

Now when is the permit for??


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## dirtbagkayaker

You should have got the Saturn. This is how to unbox it!



Bikini Model Unboxing Saturn Inflatable Boat 11' SD330. - YouTube


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## [email protected]

EC357 said:


> So thank you everybody for the input. I ended up buying the 2006 Aire 156D and an Nrs fishing frame with 3 10' Carlisle oars!! Really stoked to Get this boat and run the Middle fork and Main this year and still in the lottery for the Yampa!! Woohoo lets all pray for more snow out west and have an awesome year!! Thanks, Erik


Thank you for your prayers, but quite honestly it appears we are doing fine snow wise. We're measuring Mtn. snowfall in feet not inches per storm.


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## ciggyboy

dirtbagkayaker said:


> You should have got the Saturn. This is how to unbox it!
> 
> 
> 
> Bikini Model Unboxing Saturn Inflatable Boat 11' SD330. - YouTube


Sweet! That video is the best product ever made by Saturn...


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## spider

ciggyboy said:


> Sweet! That video is the best product ever made by Saturn...


Good for up to 50hp. That I would like to see.


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## lhowemt

dirtbagkayaker said:


> You should have got the Saturn. This is how to unbox it!
> 
> Bikini Model Unboxing Saturn Inflatable Boat 11' SD330. - YouTube


Meh. Typical marketing, when you have a shit product, use a nearly naked woman to sell it. Because men are so stupid they will want WHATEVER that hottie is selling. Some yes, others no.


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## BilloutWest

lhowemt said:


> Meh. Typical marketing, when you have a shit product, use a nearly naked woman to sell it. Because men are so stupid they will want WHATEVER that hottie is selling. Some yes, others no.


There was a some sort of product being sold in that video?


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## swiftwater15

What psi were her breasts inflated to?


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## lhowemt

BilloutWest said:


> There was a some sort of product being sold in that video?


See, we just need a LIKE button SOOOOO bad!


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## BilloutWest

lhowemt said:


> See, we just need a LIKE button SOOOOO bad!


I remember now.
Before she dropped the dress there was something on the dock.


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## Avatard

that saturn wasn't the only thing inflating while she was pumping ...


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## formerflatlander

You ever just log onto the Buzz out of boredom? And then you see a Saturn, Sea Eagle, or Dave Scadden post? And it's hours of entertainment and checking for a few days just to see what follows.


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## lncoop

formerflatlander said:


> You ever just log onto the Buzz out of boredom? And then you see a Saturn, Sea Eagle, or Dave Scadden post? And it's hours of entertainment and checking for a few days just to see what follows.


Yes.


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## tczues

I've had my Saturn for 3 years now. No problems so far. Been down cat twice, westwater 8 times, deso twice, Hells canyon 3 times and ladore once and the MFN once. 


Sent from my iPhone using Mountain Buzz


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## taylorian64

bucketboater said:


> This post pisses me off and it has nothing to do with your interest in a poverty raft.


Im guessing because why are you putting in for a permit before buying a boat? Then gonna disgrace the river by running a saturn just because you feel you have to buy a boat now. I say purchase a sevylor IK from wally world and you will do just fine.


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## taylorian64

haha well played!!!!!!


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## SaturnRafts

*See for Yourself - Saturn Rafts Special Events in Colorado Costcos*

With all the questions people have about our products it's quite interesting that when we try to inform users about Special Events where you can see many of our products they get removed by the moderators. So, I guess I can't tell you that you can see most of our product line on display in Gypsum, CO and Superior, CO during the months of April and May. Since we don't have a dealer in Colorado we thought it would be good to show potential customers who have brought up all of these questions where to see them.


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## pinemnky13

SaturnRafts said:


> With all the questions people have about our products it's quite interesting that when we try to inform users about Special Events where you can see many of our products they get removed by the moderators. So, I guess I can't tell you that you can see most of our product line on display in Gypsum, CO and Superior, CO during the months of April and May. Since we don't have a dealer in Colorado we thought it would be good to show potential customers who have brought up all of these questions where to see them.


That's funny cause Ive seen advertisements for a dealer in summit county and the moderators usually remove advertisements from companies that don't support(sponsor)mountain buzz


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## Andy H.

When non-sponsoring merchants use MountainBuzz for free advertising, those posts are moved to the "Commercial Posts" forum.


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## gobigohome

SaturnRafts said:


> With all the questions people have about our products it's quite interesting that when we try to inform users about Special Events where you can see many of our products they get removed by the moderators. So, I guess I can't tell you that you can see most of our product line on display in Gypsum, CO and Superior, CO during the months of April and May. Since we don't have a dealer in Colorado we thought it would be good to show potential customers who have brought up all of these questions where to see them.



I am one of the people that own one of your Saturn rafts. I can attest the construction of the material is done okay (for a raft I picked up for $1100) but the design is terrible. As one of the Buzzards noted in a earlier post (3years ago) the entrapment issue with the boat is a serious danger for white water. Held in buy three thwarts and two stitching area leaves the opportunity for an entrapment issue. This has left my raft as good as a walmart ducky and is reserved for float trips that have nothing over class 2 and 3- rapids. I used my mini me, puma or shredder for white water.

To clarify I personally do not consider it part of the “White water boats” just a high end float tube that I can put a frame on and carry tons of beer.


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## gretch6364

Glad to see you ended up going the direction you did. When I was initially searching I strongly strongly considered getting a RMR and buying a new frame for it. ALmost even put money down on the rubber.

I ended up buying a used Hyside with a full fishing frame and trailer for a little more then the cost of just the RMR rubber. The frame is pretty new, but the raft is a 1990 13'8" SB with lace in floor. Not a single patch on the entire boat and other then the yellow strip, the boat is in darn great condition and I fully anticipate it will last another 25 years if I happen to desire. I am sure I will replace it in the next five years as I get more into the sport, but my point is, quality is quality.


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## WhitefishBrandon

I bought a 13' Saturn at a Costco roadshow 3years ago and at the time didn't know any better. It caught my eye and since we live near Glacier National Park, floating the north, south and middle fork would be a great buffer between hiking and other summer activities. Plus, the price was perfect for what I thought I was going to use it for - paddle raft with lots of beer.

Well, I really got into rafting and put on a frame and all the goodies and have logged over 700miles on my 13' Saturn. My buddy just got a 14' NRS and rowing his boat compared to my "inferior" Saturn I can tell many differences in the two brands. However, I have not had any issues with my Saturn and I'm sure there will be a time that I will. That being said I'm going to run my cheap Saturn in the river and then look into a NRS, Sotar or Maravia for my next purchase.


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## gobigohome

WhitefishBrandon said:


> I bought a 13' Saturn at a Costco roadshow 3years ago and at the time didn't know any better. It caught my eye and since we live near Glacier National Park, floating the north, south and middle fork would be a great buffer between hiking and other summer activities. Plus, the price was perfect for what I thought I was going to use it for - paddle raft with lots of beer. Well, I really got into rafting and put on a frame and all the goodies and have logged over 700miles on my 13' Saturn. My buddy just got a 14' NRS and rowing his boat compared to my "inferior" Saturn I can tell many differences in the two brands. However, I have not had any issues with my Saturn and I'm sure there will be a time that I will. That being said I'm going to run my cheap Saturn in the river and then look into a NRS, Sotar or Maravia for my next purchase.


I agree the boat works. Just as a safety issue the floor makes me nervous. I feel as though it's not if it's when someone's leg gets trapped between the inflatable floor and the bottom.


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## Quiggle

*saw this today*

Costco Boat Show - Whitewater Rafts, Kayaks, and Inflatable Boats


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## the_water_man

I LOVE my 13' Saturn. I've put probably 60+ runs on it in the last 3 years, she has held up like a champ! There used to be a bit of a bad reputation after their first year's models (which admittedly had issues). Since then they have been gaining steam, as you can see many people aside from myself have had great times with them.

One issue: the floor. On huge hits i often find my right leg under the floor, so far I have been lucky it hasn't happened on a flip. I've solved this by sitting pretty high on the back tube but it could be a bigger issue for heavier guides.

For the price, I say go for it. My baby has taken on Class IV and lived, Saturn serves well as a entry level boat.


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## gobigohome

the_water_man said:


> I LOVE my 13' Saturn. I've put probably 60+ runs on it in the last 3 years, she has held up like a champ! There used to be a bit of a bad reputation after their first year's models (which admittedly had issues). Since then they have been gaining steam, as you can see many people aside from myself have had great times with them. One issue: the floor. On huge hits i often find my right leg under the floor, so far I have been lucky it hasn't happened on a flip. I've solved this by sitting pretty high on the back tube but it could be a bigger issue for heavier guides. For the price, I say go for it. My baby has taken on Class IV and lived, Saturn serves well as a entry level boat.



Ya what until you are under their in a flip. You won't be saying its fine in class iv hits. Let alone if it's a friend that's stuck in there


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## Avatard

gobigohome said:


> Ya what until you are under their in a flip. You won't be saying its fine in class iv hits. Let alone if it's a friend that's stuck in there


Minor flaw. Darwin Award Product of the Year


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## lhowemt

Exactly what is the floor entrapment hazard? I have heard they basically glue a sup type floor on top of a vucket floor and then punch holes in the perimeter of the bucket floor. So do they not fully or effectively glue the inflatwd floor in? ,are the holes too big? What?


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## Avatard

lhowemt said:


> Exactly what is the floor entrapment hazard? I have heard they basically glue a sup type floor on top of a vucket floor and then punch holes in the perimeter of the bucket floor. So do they not fully or effectively glue the inflatwd floor in? ,are the holes too big? What?


Just sucks if you get your foot or leg wedged between the two


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## brendodendo

Years ago, I got my leg stuck under the ibeam floor of a Baltic. (precursor of the Saturn line, same factory, same price point) The PRV in the floor blew out and the floor went from pressurized to half full. I went out to recover the boat after the crew had been jettisoned. I had to negotiate the next set of rapids with only my body (no paddle). As I stood in the boat with feet shoulder width apart and put my shoulder into the tubes to keep it right side up, the floor kept trying to swallow my leg between the upper floating inflatable floor and the lower "punched" floor. I realized what was happening and did my best to keep from getting totally caught. To this day, that event changed my mind about the differences between a quality white water raft and a cheap knockoff. I don't bash Saturn, but it would not be the type of boat I would like to paddle in class IV or V water.


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## lhowemt

Wow, that is unbelievably unsafe.


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## mtnman79

*Saturn Floor Design Opinion*

I have owned a Saturn in the past, 2010, as an entry level raft and here is the story with the floor from what I have experienced. On a float trip, my son stepped into the side of the raft and his foot became entrapped between the main tube and the floor. The drop stitch floor can be inflated to a fairly high PSI so it is fairly rigid. He said he couldn't get his foot loose. He finally pulled hard enough and his foot came out of his shoe to free it. If we would have been in a class III-IV rapid and that happened if the boat flipped, the consequences could have been catastrophic! 

The other problem we had with the floor is that it was attached to the raft floor with a couple of permanent attach points so the floor floats when filled with water. What happens is that debris from the water lodges between the pvc that forms the bottom of the boat, think bucket boat with holes it it, and the drop stitch floor. Then, you stand on the drop stitch, which isn't very thick, and it puts a hole in the bottom of the drop stitch floor. Then, it is very difficult to repair as you can't remove the floor, although they may have made it removable by now. Even so, drop stitch is not so easy to patch. If you have a Saturn, you should hose out the floor after every trip to clear out the debris in the bottom of the raft.

Overall, a dangerous floor design not suitable for anything above class II in my opinion. I'm wondering if the new NRS Outlaw raft has the same issues? It looks like it has the same general design as the Saturn. Anyone have an opinion on it?


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## lhowemt

I don't know for sure, but I highly doubt NRS's attachment point of a drop stitch floor is like the Saturn's. I would guess it is like their Ibeam floor, where the inflatable floor is integral to the fabric which attaches it to the tubes. 

Anyone know for sure? I would think we'd hear about it if it was the case, and NRS would be done selling those boats pretty darn fast.


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## laterwagged

Outlaw sure looks like the same design to me. NRS Outlaw 140 Self-Bailing Rafts at nrs.com

There is clearly space between the drop stitch floor and the tubes/floor. Anyone else notice that they are branded "Outlaw" and doesn't say NRS anywhere on it. Doesn't seem like they are super proud of this line to me.


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## cataraftgirl

I saw a Saturn a few weeks ago. Floor looks the same as the picture of the Outlaw. Although it seemed like the floor in the Saturn was tighter/less space showing than the Outlaw picture. I thought it was a true drop stitch at first.


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## lhowemt

laterwagged said:


> Outlaw sure looks like the same design to me. NRS Outlaw 140 Self-Bailing Rafts at nrs.com
> 
> There is clearly space between the drop stitch floor and the tubes/floor. Anyone else notice that they are branded "Outlaw" and doesn't say NRS anywhere on it. Doesn't seem like they are super proud of this line to me.


Wow, that doesn't bode well for NRS and any semblance of quality.


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## gobigohome

lhowemt said:


> Wow, that doesn't bode well for NRS and any semblance of quality.


No it does especially from all the pages of bashing on Saturn. Is everybody going to boycot nrs


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## Avatard

gobigohome said:


> No it does especially from all the pages of bashing on Saturn. Is everybody going to boycot nrs


Already do. I'd never buy another boat from them again anyhow


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## SaturnRafts

*Comparing Saturn to Outlaw*

While the posts under this thread are quite old they still serve to provide a good history of our product improvements over the years. The evolution from our original Saturn rafts to the new 2016 models is the result of great customer input and a great production team. 

Our continual improvements have taken another positive step for 2016 and the result in a new drop-stitch inflatable floor with the rigidity that will rival anything in the world. The new floors have now been rated up to 10 psi (nearly 3x the rigidity of most whitewater rafts). We have also produced an "outfitter" option which provides a thicker 1.2mm PVC base floor material (nearly 50% thicker) to better handle even the most rigorous commercial use. The outfitter option is available on select rafts at this time but will be available on all rafts by summer. 

The value is the greatest you'll find and if you mention you saw this writeup on the BUZZ and order a new boat/raft/kayak, we will provide FREE SHIPPING on any instock product. Enjoy the upcoming boating season.


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