# Trip Report as you consider joining/inviting newbies



## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

An den?


----------



## IDriverRunner (Aug 18, 2015)

You scheduled 19 miles on day 1 in late July? We launched July 14th last year at 2.34 and it took most of the day just to make it the 8-9 miles to our camp. I'm anxious to hear the rest of this story!


----------



## lyhfamily (May 13, 2009)

Response - 19 miles is a full day. I have no problem making that distance if we remain focused and can 'follow' through pinball alley.



Book 2 (of 3 ?)




About 6:30 Sunday, the Fishes showed up. We quickly unloaded and got their boats on the water by 8:00. Jason had talked to Steve just before losing cell phone coverage outside of Stanley. At 5 pm, Steve had not left home. He was, at best, 4 hours from Boundary Creek. We had dinner followed by a restless night, knowing that we had to make 19 of the toughest (low water) miles on Monday. It was imperative that we launch by 8 am. Sleep finally took over when I heard a rig pull in about midnight.

Monday morning, we got up early for breakfast and to get Steve’s boats staged, have our Forest Service talk, and launch. Problem - no sign of Steve. The rig I heard pull in was two camps down. After breakfast, we began to wait. 8 am and no Steve. 9 am, no Steve. Another hour passed. 10 am, still no Steve. I approached Jason and he convinced me that we would wait until 11 and launch if Steve was not there. 11 a.m., right on cue, Steve pulled into the parking lot. We all jumped to get his two boats and gear staged. It would be almost 1 pm before we were ready to launch – 19 miles to camp! It was clear we could not make our assigned camp. After a short discussion with the Rangers, we were able to change our first night camp from Dolly Lake to Sheepeater. A sliver lining. We would have two camps at hot springs. But still 16 miles to camp.

As Steve jumped out of his truck, the strap on his right sandal pulled out of the sole. No problem. With a large upholstery needle and dental floss, I stitched his sandal back together. It worked, and would hold the length of the trip. In the flurry of activity, I saw Steve literally throwing gear in the boats to get them on the water. His dry bags were old rubber lined army duff sacks. Seeing them brought back a flood of memories of visits to, and regular purchases at, Smith & Edwards (the Army Surplus Store) between Brigham City and Ogden. Those bags didn’t keep my things dry on Boy Scout trips in the 60’s, but I thought Steve’s experience on the SouthWest Rivers had tested his gear sufficiently. 

Once onloaded, Robert volunteered to take Steve’s truck and trailer up to the shuttle parking lot while Steve and the rest of us finalized Steve’s boats. Steve agreed and told Robert to lock the keys in the truck, he had a spare set with him.

Apparently, at home as Steve was preparing to load boats and gear, he was backing up his truck and trailer to load his boat and ran over it. I presume the damage was beyond immediate repair to either the boat, the frame, or both. I know it was not in my best interest to ask for details. He was able to borrow his brothers raft, get it loaded, and pick up a rented Cat. As a result, he did not leave home until sometime Monday morning. He then got lost in the back-roads of the Sawtooth’s trying to find Boundary Creek and the put-in. Then his sandal. . . . and the pressure of it all . . . 

At 1 pm we launched from Boundary. The trip was on – 16 miles to camp. 

We agreed that I would lead the group through the low water obstacles. The route is pretty well defined through many of the rapids: First Bend and Ramshorn. But there is a definite route or strategy for Pinball Alley, Sulphur Slide, Hell’s Half Mile, Velvet Falls, and The Chutes. Robert would be the last boat to provide bumps or other assistance to keep the group moving. I would eddy out periodically in order to keep the group from getting too strung out. Our goal was to 1) keep moving, and 2) keep everyone in sight. All went to plan – well, at least for 100 yards through First Bend rapid. We were soon scattered over 2 miles of river. Robert had his work cut out for him. He was continually bumping and pulling boats off rocks. Steve was struggling to control his boat with gear and three (albeit small) passengers.

I do not recall if it was above or below Velvet Falls, a 5 gallon, orange Home Depot bucket washed out of Steve’s raft. For a quarter mile or more, it bounced along the river bottom in from of his boat until it was in multiple pieces. I insisted that he make at least make a reasonable effort to recover it and stow it for the balance of the trip. Steve was not talking to me.

A mandatory stop at Trail Flats hot spring for a soak, snacks, regroup, and words of encouragement, and we were back on the water. 5 pm and 6 miles to go to camp. Thank goodness for the long days in July. We finally pulled into camp about 9 pm. No time for me at the hot springs tonight. I will make up for it at Hospital Bar.

Steve was the last boat to pull in and began to unload, wet – soaking wet, dripping wet, sleeping bags from the floor of his boat. They had not even been rolled up or put in his Army Surplus duffs. Clothing and personal gear that were in the duff sacks were also soaked. No dry clothes or bedding for the Monkeys tonight. I sorted through my gear and found a couple blankets and sleeping bag liners that I carry for emergencies (that warrants another story) and took them to Steve. For unknown reasons, Steve was not talking to me.

Dinner and sleep were welcomed. A long stressful day was behind us. Perhaps tomorrow would bring lighter moods. After all, this is a vacation - it supposed to be fun, Damnit!

As was the case with day one, the weather for day two was delightful. With each mile, we saw small streams flowing into the river. Each one bringing more welcome water and I celebrated doing our family tradition ‘happy dance’. I had swapped places with Robert and was now in ‘sweep’ position. Life is good – for 6 miles. 

Between Big Snag and Dolly Lake Camps, Steve made contact with the rock wall on the left channel and tore a hole in his brother’s boat. I was a bit puzzled how a boat could hit a rock wall that hard. I stayed with him and we patched the boat. We pressed on - 3 miles to Indian Creek. Steve was talking to me now, although it is only to complain about the pressure to get to our assigned camps. The more I tried to hold my position as sweep boat, the more Steve slowed down, eddied out, or otherwise got stuck. Clara and I decided to press on to Indian Creek. Upon arrival we found the rest of the group waiting. They had filled water jugs, gotten reports from the rangers, and were anxious to get to Pungo Creek for lunch. We all waited for Steve and Daniel to arrive at Indian Creek, and forged on. 

Clara and I landed at Pungo and while waiting for Steve, the Owl’s and fishes went on the short hike up to the Pictographs. We took pictures, enjoyed the view down onto the river, and returned to the boats. No Steve. An hour later, no Steve. Steve had the lunch assignment for Tuesday and we were getting hungrier by the minute and began to feel the pressure of passing hours without putting miles behind us. I opened my cooler and grabbed some grapes, cheese, and crackers to munch on while waiting. Soon, the Owls and fishes were chowing down on leftovers from Sunday and Monday. (Without feeding the Monkey’s on Sunday, we had plenty of leftovers.) Nearly two hours after we landed at Pungo, Steve showed up. As he came from his boat up to the single shade tree where we sat, his lunch assignment in hand, he saw evidence of our makeshift lunch on the rock. He turned around and stormed off to his boat. Steve was not happy. 

The Owls and Fishes were anxious to get moving, and of course, were no longer hungry. To appease the now angry(er) Steve, the fishes convinced him to bring his up lunch. We ate token amounts in an effort to settle him down. Steve, again, was not talking to me.

Marble left is a wonderful camp. Just downstream from camp, the roar of Marble rapid is a constant reminder of the eminent excitement waiting in the morning. Camp is located just above the river and the cliffs provide a great vista and launch into the clear waters below. I was excited to cool off, wash off, and relax. Steve has been down at the boats for a long time. I found him waist deep, wrestling with the now detached frame from the cata-raft. I do not recall the reason he thought it need to be adjusted. After undoing straps on both tubes, he was frustrated when the frame sunk to the bottom of the river. He borrowed a socket set from Robert’s tools, and while adjusting the frame, spoke his only words to Robert by complaining about the ratchet. Two hours later, he and I had the cat put back together. 

I was reading a book – “What If God Wrote Your Bucket List” (- Payleitner). My chapter this night was titled “Be Last in Line”. The gist was to surrender to others and let them lead rather than follow. The scripture reference for this chapter was Matthew 20:16 “The first shall be last and the last first”. I get the message and commit to, on Wednesday, let the fishes and Monkey’s experience the river on their own.


----------



## CB Rob (Feb 13, 2010)

I'm ready to read from the book of Steve now.


----------



## lyhfamily (May 13, 2009)

There are always at least two sides to every story. I would love to read 'the book of Steve' as well.


Book 3 - final


With the low water obstacles, and Indian Creek behind us, Day 3 was to be a fun day. Marble, Ski Jump, and Jackass rapids, together with Sunflower hot springs, and Underwater canyon create a new beginning of sorts. Although we had 20 miles to cover today, with the increased water flows, maintaining momentum is not typically a concern. Clara and I did our best to ‘be last’. We started by frequently floating alongside, or just behind Steve and Danny, making small talk and enjoying the river. I soon realized that Steve was getting frustrated from hanging up on many (if not all) the rocks in the river. Perhaps it is a multi-tasking thing. Clara and I begin watching from a distance. About 3 or 4 miles from Hospital Bar, Steve ran up on an exposed rock near Loon Islands. I lined up to ‘bump’ him off the rock – unsuccessfully. Clara and I grabbed his boat and attempted to pull him off from downstream. When I looked up, instead of rowing with us, Steve was quietly putting on his sandals. We left him to his own fate, in the middle of the river, and floated on to camp.

The Fishes were enjoying the late afternoon fishing, hopping from one eddy to the next. Mike and Robert were already in camp when we pulled in. An hour later, ahead of the Fishes, Steve pulled into camp, proceeded piling buckets filled with ice and food in front of my boat, and announced “I am floating the rest of the way out tonight and going home”. After the shock of his statement, Mike, Robert, Clara, and I realized he was serious. Attempts to reason with him only spun him up the more, Even Daniel’s pleadings did not reach him. He thought he could float in a few hours, further than he had been able to float in 3 days!

I feared for the safety of his three children and nephew to the point of giving serious consideration to putting a hole in his boat so he could not continue down the river. He continued ranting about how he had talked to the Ranger at Indian Creek about leaving the group and was going to float out, drive home, and take his family on a real vacation to Lagoon – that night! 

It was about this time that Roger, Jason, and Kendall showed up. It would take the next hour for them to talk sense into Steve. He agreed not to attempt to float out under three conditions:
1) I would not talk to him
2) I would not camp by him
3) I would not eat his food

The wonderful thing about Hospital Bar, is that the camp area is about the size of 2 football fields. That helped with the first two of his conditions. The problem however, was that his daughters and nephew had begun to frequent our tent area each night. Clara would draw or paint and include the two girls were fascinated with their new-found interest, and loved the attention. Discussions with Daniel would typically center around rafting techniques. 

As for the food . . . The owl’s decided to cook their meals two nights early. The only problem with that was they had planned on feeding four less people. Shortly after dinner, Daniel and the girls came over to visit and paint. Steve was quick to send a messenger that consorting with the enemy was not to be tolerated (my words not his). I kept my distance and stayed near my tent, opting not to risk bumping into him at the hot springs. 

The next two days, I kept my distance for two reasons. The first, to honor Steve’s request(s), but more importantly, I began a process of reflection. How did I create, or contribute to Steve’s meltdown? What could I have done, or now do, to alleviate the conflict? Even toward the rest of the Owl’s, I became withdrawn. As a result of my state of mind, I honestly do not remember much of Steve’s actions or interactions during the rest of the trip. Consequently, the rest of this account may be short (thank goodness!).

Thursday, day 4 started out stressful. I do not recall if the Owl’s even ate breakfast, but we decided we would not risk further interactions with Steve. We quickly loaded our boats, told the Fish’s we would see them at each of the big drops of the day, and meet them for lunch at the Flying B. The day was uneventful and we arrived early at Wollard, set up camp, swam and bathed, and I actually, for the first time, broke out my fly rod. Two hours later, the group pulled in. 

This would be the Owl’s last night on the river. In order to get an early start, and being desirous to leave the large campsite for the group (not to violate Steve’s demand #2), the Owl’s had opted to camp on the rocky beach on the south end of camp. 

As Steve had put off cooking thus far in the trip, he was on for dinner. I was not particularly paying attention, but since his boat was in the eddy I was fishing in, I was dumbfounded when he pulled off the floor of his boat, not one, not two, but three cast iron dutch ovens! Like the sleeping bags, they had been left to slosh around in water on the floor of the boat. So much for wondering why he was struggling to control his boat and keep off every rock in the river.

After dinner, Robert and Mike quietly asked if we had some food. They were still hungry. Soon Jason came down. Steve’s daughters had been in the same swimsuits for 4 days and each had developed a rash. Did we have anything for them? I handed him my wilderness first aid kit to take up to Steve. I will never know if he used anything I had, but I do know he complained to Jason about not having a specific anti-fungal cream. In his world back home, he would have had a supply at his fingertips or a prescription away. Unfortunately for Steve, the local Wal-Mart was closed.

Just before retiring to bed, I ventured up to the campfire to bid farewell. The Owl’s would likely be leaving before the rest of the camp was awake. They would have an easy day with only 11 miles to their final camp. Jason told me that Steve wanted to see me, so in the low light of the campfire, Steve apologized. We talked briefly, I gave him a brace (I am a ‘hugger’) and retreated to my tent to contemplate the strange ending to the ‘Trip From Hell’.

Our trip out, and home was uneventful. Upon arriving home, as I stepped out of the bath, I realized I had two appendages that I did not have prior to the trip (and that I did not want to have). A few days later my suspicions were confirmed – double bilateral inguinal hernia. If you are wondering, no, I did not go to Steve for the diagnosis. After two surgeries and too long of a recovery, I was left to wonder – when and where did I overdo? Maybe it was trying to lift the raft full of gear, wet sleeping bags, and three cast iron dutch ovens off of any of the rocks on the Middle Fork.

Several weeks later, Roger called to share the final day of their adventure. Their last two days were also uneventful and as they landed at Cache Bar, Steve came over to Roger asking “what did you do with the keys to my truck?”. Steve had forgotten that he had given his ‘extra’ set to the shuttle service. Both sets were now securely locked in the cab of his truck. After failed attempts to get the truck unlocked, Steve was forced to break out the back window. Apparently the 250 mile trip home was a bit noisy.

It was a full year later when I ran into Jason, Robert, and Steve. We chatted about the Middle Fork and our adventure. Steve was still not talking to me.

You know, I’m ok with that.


----------



## CB Rob (Feb 13, 2010)

Interesting story. The sad part is knowing that thew kids on Steves boat will probably have zero interest in rafting again. If you boat long enough you will have some sort of trip from hell. I've had a few.... there are always good parts though, even on a trip from hell. 
Now that I think about it, my grand trip of 2000 had a Steve. I got off to a bad start with steve, hit him in the back of the head with a golf ball before we even got to the river. I felt bad at first, by day 10 I was ready to bounce a few more golf balls off the back of his head, lol. 
Thanks for sharing.


----------



## DeadLikeMe (Sep 27, 2017)

We had one boater on a MF trip where it seemed like at every turn something went wrong for him (holes in the boat, broken oars, serious injury, etc). Any one of the mishaps could have happened to anyone on the trip. But his attitude was awesome. I have complete respect for the guy. Great reminder to stay humble, take advice and if all else fails, smile.


----------



## John_in_Loveland (Jun 9, 2011)

What a great narration. Thanks for sharing...and the Mathew 20:16 passage was appropo. 

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Mountain Buzz mobile app


----------



## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

I enjoyed your tale, lyhfamily, thank you!


My first MF experience, I brought my own raft, but kayaked while a friend rowed my boat. I agreed to paddle his kayak so he could do the mellower stretch past Indian in a boat he was comfortable in. It hurt my legs, but oh well, I was on the MF!!


The kicker was the oarsman in the other raft who slept in and took way too long to get loaded. He always made comments about "how easy it was to load kayaks and they just didn't understand how long it took to load a raft". By about Day 3, I tended to ignore him and I'd help my buddy load my raft with ALL the kayakers gear bags and half the group gear, put on my drysuit bottom half, and sit in the sunshine for another hour sipping a beer waiting for the other guy to lash everything for the umpteenth time....because hey, I was on the Middle Fork!


----------



## Riverwild (Jun 19, 2015)

Nice write up! I've only had one trip from hell that I can think of. On like day 4 certain members of the group got in a fist fight/ rock throwing and ultimately people flew out. Coincidentally this was also on the Middle Fork. 



I still don't really get why Steve disliked you so much. I thought for sure this story ended with something like... Steve found out you slept with his wife in college and one of those kids in that boat looks a lot like you or something.


----------



## bobbuilds (May 12, 2007)

I enjoyed the story, thank you very much.

I’m reminded that not all people think and act the same way. Some like hardship and trouble, some do not worry either way, and some plan for everything and hope for uneventful.

I was also reminded to let people walk their own path, regardless of how many times they stub their toe. If we spend to much time redirecting other people on the path we share, we may stub our own toe, or develop a hernia.

I remind myself, when doing group trips that it is always a loose plan, I’ll do my best and enjoy my day. I can’t be responsible for others time management or happiness.

Thanks for sharing. I appreciate that.


----------



## daairguy (Nov 11, 2013)

Thanks for sharing lyhfamily. I enjoyed your story. I think most of us can relate to doing a trip with someone like Steve.


----------



## Treswright3 (May 20, 2013)

Thanks for sharing, I enjoyed the read


----------



## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

BTW lyhfamily, you write well.

Even if you don't have other big misfortunes to talk about, please consider writing more.


----------



## kayakingphotog (May 25, 2007)

bobbuilds said:


> I enjoyed the story, thank you very much.
> 
> I’m reminded that not all people think and act the same way. Some like hardship and trouble, some do not worry either way, and some plan for everything and hope for uneventful.
> 
> ...


Bob you are so right and your eloquence is to be commended. 

Lets Go Boating!


----------



## shappattack (Jul 17, 2008)

Holy sheep shit. What year was this? I think Steve was definitely well aquatinted with the booger sugar.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sk71DYJuD7w

the Champ and Steve-o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bISPkLoXuA


----------



## HitMcG (Jun 6, 2018)

Thanks for the story lyhfamily. Very well-written and a good reminder to go with the flow. 

And thanks for the randomness Shap. Until I watched that I had no idea how much Steve-O looks and sounds like Jerry Lewis now.


----------



## sethlor (Apr 29, 2009)

Great story. Sorry it's also a hellish one. But, I did laugh out loud at the storage of the 3 dutch ovens! May the rest of your days on the river be more peaceful.


----------



## MontanaLaz (Feb 15, 2018)

Good times...

I was on a trip once where it was my day in the kitchen and we had a trip member that most people didn't know well. I'm doing my thing and look over to see this guy trying his damnedest to make some sort of a bonfire in 20 mile an hour winds. There is already sparks flying into the trees. Everyone else is sort of hemming and hawing that someone needs to go and talk to him but no one wants to be confrontational.

I said screw it and grabbed a bucket of water and marched over and unceremoniously dosed the pending forest fire. Everyone has a holy poop stain moment until they realize that it wasn't going to cause a group meltdown. The look on the guys face was priceless. Before he has a chance to register what just happened I make a joke about white man fires and federal prisons to cut the tension.

It ended up being one of the funnier moments of the trip but I can easily see how it could have gone far differently and ended up as a "Steve" trip. Guy just wasn't used to being in places where you can easily cause a fire. He was trying to be helpful to the group by getting the fire pan going and assumed because there was no ban in place that anything goes.


Edit to add...I just realized that you said right of the bat that Steve is a doctor. No wonder he didn't react well to not being the smartest guy in the group that everyone automatically deferred to  It had to be hard on him.


----------



## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

It's not exactly brain surgery, is it?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THNPmhBl-8I


----------



## Rivers (May 13, 2010)

Loved your story. Some people just can’t shake that shroud of negativity and he blamed you for everything. Yes we all know ‘steves’.... but we don’t have to raft with them AGAIN


----------



## MontanaLaz (Feb 15, 2018)

MT4Runner said:


> It's not exactly brain surgery, is it?
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THNPmhBl-8I


Thank you for that....I laughed some coffee though my nose :grin::razz::lol:


----------



## jaffy (Feb 4, 2004)

You know, some of what you say makes you sound like a humble, easy to get along with guy. It was also an entertaining read. However, and please don't take this as an attack because I don't know your or anyone else from that trip, but a lot of your comments make me think you came off as a pushy know-it-all who thinks your preferred way to experience the river is the "best" way, or even the only way.

Below is me playing devil's advocate. I'm going to be intentionally assuming negative interpretations of your behaviour as a worst case scenario. I made it through book 1 and 2 with my comments, but I'm not going to do book 3 because I've spent more time on this than I intended to. Besides, you'll get the gist from what I've done.



lyhfamily said:


> With introductions out of the way...I asked a lot of questions and offered more advice than was prudent. Despite my objections, Jason directed us all to fend for our respective groups...I emphasized that weight is not anyone’s friend for a low water Middle Fork Trip. My comments fell on deaf ears.


It shounds like you realize you probably were pushier than you should have been. It probably did not set a good first impression.



lyhfamily said:


> It was imperative that we launch by 8 am.


Clearly not, since you ended up launching at 1pm and still made it by dark (albeit 3 miles less than originally planned). The Fishes also seemed comfortable waiting until 11am, so they at least did not feel as much urgency as you did. However, if you felt it was imperative, did that influence your reaction when Steve finally did show up? You were probably stressed, he was stressed - I can see that building on the potential negative reactions from the BBQ.



lyhfamily said:


> As Steve jumped out of his truck, the strap on his right sandal pulled out of the sole. No problem. With a large upholstery needle and dental floss, I stitched his sandal back together.


Did he ask for help? Did you offer and he accepted? Or did you jump in to be the super-hero? Even if one of the first two, it might have colored events later in the trip. 



lyhfamily said:


> In the flurry of activity, I saw Steve literally throwing gear in the boats to get them on the water.


Clearly Steve was stressed and feeling badly about holding the group up. That might have been a good time to tell him to slow down - an extra 30 minutes loading the boat is not likely to make or break you.



lyhfamily said:


> Apparently, at home as Steve was preparing to load boats and gear, he was backing up his truck and trailer to load his boat and ran over it. I presume the damage was beyond immediate repair to either the boat, the frame, or both. I know it was not in my best interest to ask for details. He was able to borrow his brothers raft...and pick up a rented Cat. As a result, he did not leave home until sometime Monday morning. He then got lost in the back-roads of the Sawtooth’s trying to find Boundary Creek and the put-in. Then his sandal. . . . and the pressure of it all . . .


Ahh, finally some empathy. Up to now your story has been pretty critical of anyone, especially Steve, who is not as hyper-organized as you. I also tend to be hyper-organized so I can relate, but I also realize lots of people prefer to wing it and be more relaxed about things. He was late for a reason. Sometimes shit doesn't go as planned. I'd say it would have been nice if he'd been better prepared, but I don't know what else might have been going on in his life either.



lyhfamily said:


> ...a 5 gallon...bucket washed out of Steve’s raft...it bounced along the river bottom...until it was in multiple pieces. I insisted that he make at least make a reasonable effort to recover it and stow it for the balance of the trip. Steve was not talking to me.


Normally I'd agree with you, but in an already stressful situation where clearly you're already having personality problems, why wouldn't you just pick up the bucket pieces yourself?



lyhfamily said:


> We finally pulled into camp about 9 pm. No time for me at the hot springs tonight...


Are you the type of person that likes to get to camp early? There's nothing wrong with that, as long as you realize others might not care. I've been on trips where we were on the river by 9am every day, and others where we were never on the river before noon. I can go either way, but I know some people on both trips that got antsy because they had a preference one way or the other.



lyhfamily said:


> No dry clothes or bedding for the Monkeys tonight. I sorted through my gear and found a couple blankets and sleeping bag liners that I carry for emergencies ...and took them to Steve. For unknown reasons, Steve was not talking to me.


Again, did you offer or just do it? If he felt time pressure from you when loading his boats, he might also have blamed you for the fact everything was wet in the first place.



lyhfamily said:


> Steve made contact with the rock wall on the left channel and tore a hole in his brother’s boat. I was a bit puzzled how a boat could hit a rock wall that hard. I stayed with him and we patched the boat.


Again, you're fixing his problems. Did he ask or you offer, or did you just jump in? "I was a bit puzzled how a boat could hit a rock wall that hard" - that implies he was somehow at fault. Maybe he was, but maybe it was an unlucky fluke too. I've actually never put a hole in my raft, but I'd call myself lucky more than skilled.



lyhfamily said:


> Steve was talking to me now, although it is only to complain about the pressure to get to our assigned camps.


Why was there pressure to get to assigned camps? Day one there was a reason. Why on day two? What's the rush?



lyhfamily said:


> Steve had the lunch assignment for Tuesday and we...began to feel the pressure of passing hours without putting miles behind us...Nearly two hours after we landed at Pungo, Steve showed up.


Why the pressure? Were you in danger of not making the next camp? Why was he two hours behind? This was the day you went 13 miles right? 

Let's say you were on the river at 9am, and eating lunch at noon. It took you 3 hours to get there, and it took him 5? That seems odd. I did a trip last summer where my two friends both wanted to fish more than I did, so every day I'd either meet them at the next significant rapid or at camp. Even with me cruising down the river and them fishing every eddy, I'm not sure I was ever 2 hours ahead of them.



lyhfamily said:


> (Without feeding the Monkey’s on Sunday, we had plenty of leftovers.)


That's pretty snarky. Why would you say that, other than to make Steve look bad?



lyhfamily said:


> I found him...wrestling with the...frame from the cata-raft. I do not recall the reason *he thought* it need to be adjusted.


(emphasis mine). Why would you say it that way? You're implying there wasn't a good reason, but I'm guessing he wouldn't take his frame apart for no reason. 




lyhfamily said:


> ...he was frustrated when the frame sunk to the bottom of the river.


Sounds like an exaggeration. Presumably the raft is beached, so one end is likely at most a few inches under water?



lyhfamily said:


> Two hours later, he and I had the cat put back together.


Why were you helping again? Did he ask?



lyhfamily said:


> I was asked to take a church group...down the...Snake River in Wyoming.





lyhfamily said:


> I was reading a book – “What If God Wrote Your Bucket List” (- Payleitner). My chapter this night was titled “Be Last in Line”. The gist was to surrender to others and let them lead rather than follow. The scripture reference for this chapter was Matthew 20:16 “The first shall be last and the last first”. I get the message and commit to, on Wednesday, let the fishes and Monkey’s experience the river on their own.


You sound like a very religious person. I hope it goes without saying, but presumably you know religion and politics have no place on a boating trip with near strangers? 

I suspect if you'd truly "let the fishes and Monkey’s experience the river on their own" that there wouldn't have been as much friction as there was.


----------



## daairguy (Nov 11, 2013)

jaffy are you Steve?! 


/s


----------



## lyhfamily (May 13, 2009)

Now that is funny!


Oh, and for the record, I AM an accountant!!!!!!


In the middle of tax returns as I type.


thanks for the laugh.


----------



## shappattack (Jul 17, 2008)

lyhfamily said:


> Now that is funny!
> 
> 
> Oh, and for the record, I AM an accountant!!!!!!
> ...


It appears like Steve-O, lyhfamily is also well aquanted with the nose candy.


----------



## boicatr (Mar 14, 2013)

Haha nice story, thanks for sharing Lanny! I've boated with a couple and heard stories of plenty of "Steve's" over the years. Full disclosure, I know Lanny and have done a MF trip with him, but he was not PH or TL (thank God?:-*). I can attest that he is a very kind person and apparently very tolerant and inclusive, as I am sure my side of the crew gave him plenty of testing. 

LH,
My gut reaction is that:

A) Steve is definitely an idiot, or self important, or inconsiderate, or something. Hope his kids turn out but I have faith they will. 

B) You were just an invite but perhaps felt the need to step in and run the show based on your experience, and the perception that no one else could do it? Probably correct but did the PH designate you as TL and let the group know? Otherwise you could be seen as a know it all, or manipulative, or control freak. 

C) You basically got what your gut, heart, and most importantly your experience told you. You saw the red flags yet went on the trip. And that likely gave you pre-disposed expectations that were queued up. All Steve had to do was start checking your boxes. 

D) The fact you changed the logistics of the trip going into about the last week, by busting out early, kinda confirms the above. First off, that is not legal and jeopardizes the PH, plus it puts out the impression you're not a team player. If the church trip was a higher priority then you should have simply backed out of a trip you didn't feel good about in the first place. 

E) You get experience right after you need it. Hopefully Steve has more now. Sounds like you already do or wouldn't have posted. 

One follow up question. Who was assigned Monday night's dinner?

I mean the above in the spirit that you were truly being introspective and wanted input. Mine may be off base, like I said just going off of gut reaction to limited info/perspective.


----------



## DidNotWinLottery (Mar 6, 2018)

boicatr said:


> E) You get experience right after you need it.
> O



I am jotting this one down :-D


----------



## peernisse (Jun 1, 2011)

Oh man,

"individual kitchen and camp equipment would be provided by each group "

This is bad. Wow.


----------



## newpc (Aug 3, 2009)

one MF/main trip, after the guy who decided his girlfriend could row the rapids so he could kayak, well she flipped 2-3 times? On the last flip I cautioned the way they intended to right the boat by flipping it towards themselves in shallow water was dangerous, and I advised how to flip it away from you by running the ropes under the boat and back over the bottom, to do it safely. Well needless to say they told me to piss off and sure enough, one guy hurt his ankle and leg pretty badly. The next morning I loaded my gear myself and was pushing off from the beach at about 6am, ran a couple easy ones and had hitch-hiked my shuttle and had my boat and gear derigged and on the trailer by the time they pulled in. Yep she had flipped again because her boyfriend refused to row so he could kayak. Never will I go on a trip with any of those guys again. There was more to it than that of course but that was the really stupid part. I guarantee she wasnt his girlfriend by that take out.


----------



## jbomb (Apr 10, 2015)

newpc said:


> one MF/main trip . . . hitch-hiked my shuttle and had my boat and gear derigged and on the trailer by the time they pulled in.


:roll:


----------



## walterwhite (Jan 25, 2017)

Same here..


----------



## tanderson (Mar 26, 2010)

My story is Not as epic, but equally painful. 

I was doing day trips on the Carbarton Section of the Payette over a holiday weekend. Good times were being had. On the second night everybody was really hitting the drink hard. I knew that this group was going to have a rough morning. I finally made it to sleep at midnight while they continued to party. I think they were up till 2:30-ish. 

The next morning, I discovered that the other rowers in the group were too hung over and didn't want to boat. In fact, I was told that they couldn't row. I was only able to comfortably take four people on my cataraft. I wished everybody a good recovery and went boating, which was the whole damn reason we were there! 

After our run, we were greeted by a very angry hung over group that said that we were selfish to leave them and go boating. I really couldn't understand how I was going to fit 10 people on my little cat. Also, I warned the rowers of the group the night before about getting too hammered and not being able to run the next day. Nobody was mad when we left. Perhaps they were still drunk and didn't realize.


After about an hour of very heated and nearly violent arguing, we had to leave our gear with somebody in the group. Unfortunately we did not drive on this trip. We thumbed a ride to Meridian. After a hotel of two days, shopping for clothes at Walmart, and renting a car, we made it back to SLC.

We still remain the blame for not waiting for hung over people to recover. Interestingly, before we left the morning to run the river I announced to all that I was leaving for a run. I took even took a few passengers from the other rowers boat. I did not receive any communication that what I was doing was bad. In fact, I planned on running a second time that day, therefore I could have taken other people that didn't go on the first run. 
We didn't leave too early, I think it was around 10:00 am. 


Since this trip, we always drive. Also, I only boat with people that can handle their liquor. I don't care if you drink all night, just be sure you can get up and pull on those oars! I've thrown up between rapids, but still got the job done. In fact, if you plan on drinking a lot on an upcoming river trip, may I suggest getting your tolerance up weeks before the trip. Its not that hard and it can be fun.

Tda


----------



## lyhfamily (May 13, 2009)

BOICATR,
The PH did ask me to be the TL and explained that to the group at the meet n greet barbeque. My changing the logistics were done 6 weeks or more in advance with input from the PH and subsequent approval by the Forest Service. Full disclosure all around, but maybe I was given incorrect information. 



To answer your questions, the Owl's had Dinner Sunday and Monday. 



All river trips are good. Some are just gooder than others!


BTW, I very much enjoyed the trip we did together, and still have visions of you standing your cat up in the gut of Crammer (I believe that was you).


----------



## lyhfamily (May 13, 2009)

*Trip reports*

With no success on a Middle Fork permit, I will be looking for trip reports to pass the time. 

Maybe starting with tales of digging out the Boundary Creek road?


----------



## 50119 (Jan 17, 2016)

lyhfamily said:


> With no success on a Middle Fork permit, I will be looking for trip reports to pass the time.
> 
> Maybe starting with tales of digging out the Boundary Creek road?


Here's the 2019 report for Boundary in the Access & Safety thread.

https://www.mountainbuzz.com/forums/f14/2019-middle-fork-hazards-and-access-thread-97147-10.html


----------

