# Tributary 14HD vs. NRS Outlaw: Need Info on Floor Styles



## Norcalcoastie (Jan 4, 2019)

Ive had both boats. I wasn’t super crazy about my Outlaw. It got the job done, but I didn’t like the floor, and I feel like the PVC shell wears poorly. It still holds air, no patches, but it looks terrible after 4 years. The Trib is a bit heavy compared to the regular Aires, but it is very durable and well made boat. The Trib colors suck if that maters. At least the Outlaw comes in a few colors. 

I’ve replaced both now with a 156R and a 143D. If you can get a deal, you are not going to regret either. I’d take the Trib over the Outlaw. Here’s the old Outlaw alongside our 156R. Good luck with it!


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## mtnhoops (Feb 14, 2021)

Norcalcoastie said:


> Ive had both boats. I wasn’t super crazy about my Outlaw. It got the job done, but I didn’t like the floor, and I feel like the PVC shell wears poorly. It still holds air, no patches, but it looks terrible after 4 years. The Trib is a bit heavy compared to the regular Aires, but it is very durable and well made boat. The Trib colors suck if that maters. At least the Outlaw comes in a few colors.
> 
> I’ve replaced both now with a 156R and a 143D. If you can get a deal, you are not going to regret either. I’d take the Trib over the Outlaw. Here’s the old Outlaw alongside our 156R. Good luck with it!
> View attachment 62945


Super helpful. Thank you. The Trib colors are terrible, but I can deal with that if I have to. 

What is the deal with the floor on the Tributary? Do you have to clean out the pocket/shell/whatever it's called on a regular basis? Does it collect silt? 

And how did the Outlaw drain? I definitely don't want to feel like I'm in a bucket boat/sluggish when I need to be stealthy. 

Really appreciate your help! Thank you.


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## Quiggle (Nov 18, 2012)

It’s been my experience that it’s really hard to run class 3 and under with any self bailer and get it to bath tub for a extended period of time. Sure maybe a little after a big hit but even continuous class 3 there is time for the water to bail out. Now continuous class 4 and 5 are a different story. I’m not the biggest fan of bladder style boats but I run a lot of silty rivers and store my boats rolled. I have owned one (Ik) and after a high water San Juan trip it was filled with silt. I was on a trip with a new star and a new trib last summer. I liked the shape of the star better wider, bigger tubes, more kick and a longer flat section. I’ve always thought the tribe had a wired shape and I’m not really a fan of diminishing tubes. Which on another point if your worried about it filling up diminishing tubes will allow for more water to come over the bow. I should also note I’ve owned pvc boats but I prefer rubber. I would encourage a friend to go the star route you will be able to get a bigger frame on it. I’ve seen negatives with both brands.


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## Quiggle (Nov 18, 2012)

I should also say that one on of the main reasons I really didn’t like a bladder boat was that since I store and transport them rolled it took a lot of time to get the floor to dry out after I used it. Like days if I didn’t unzip it and lay it in the sun which then lead to me learning how to fix zippers and keep spare zipper parts In my repair kit. The IK I owned was a trib tomcat tandem and I really enjoyed having the boat on small creeks and stuff but I did go through two bladders in two years but I used it at least 60 days In that time


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## mtnhoops (Feb 14, 2021)

Quiggle said:


> It’s been my experience that it’s really hard to run class 3 and under with any self bailer and get it to bath tub for a extended period of time. Sure maybe a little after a big hit but even continuous class 3 there is time for the water to bail out. Now continuous class 4 and 5 are a different story. I’m not the biggest fan of bladder style boats but I run a lot of silty rivers and store my boats rolled. I have owned one (Ik) and after a high water San Juan trip it was filled with silt. I was on a trip with a new star and a new trib last summer. I liked the shape of the star better wider, bigger tubes, more kick and a longer flat section. I’ve always thought the tribe had a wired shape and I’m not really a fan of diminishing tubes. Which on another point if your worried about it filling up diminishing tubes will allow for more water to come over the bow. I should also note I’ve owned pvc boats but I prefer rubber. I would encourage a friend to go the star route you will be able to get a bigger frame on it. I’ve seen negatives with both brands.


Thanks for this input. I don't love the diminished tubes, either. And I definitely prefer bigger tubes, but that Outlaw floor has me nervous. Seems like there are more gripes with Outlaws than with Tribs . . . but I know NRS has made quite a few improvements over the past few years, and I haven't been able to find many reviews about their newer boats. Thanks for sharing some Star positives. Definitely helpful.


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## Norcalcoastie (Jan 4, 2019)

mtnhoops said:


> Super helpful. Thank you. The Trib colors are terrible, but I can deal with that if I have to.
> 
> What is the deal with the floor on the Tributary? Do you have to clean out the pocket/shell/whatever it's called on a regular basis? Does it collect silt?
> 
> ...


ah. Yes - Tributaries have a ballast floor like other Aires (*except sealed floor models, I don’t think this is available on Tribs). On the bottom of the floor are small clusters of perforations that allow water to enter. Personally I love the ballast floor concept. Some folks have the misperception that you’re adding hundreds of pound of water, but that’s not the case. If the waters in the river, it’s neutrally buoyant. If the boat is being lifted out of the water in the event of a flip, then the weight can help prevent it. *This is no excuse to be a inexperienced or sloppy oarsman. I run a very heavy 16’ oar rigged raft and don’t have issues going where I need too.

I haven’t rowed a sealed floor. I kinda don’t want to. I bet they’re awesome. But pricey. 

I don’t run silty rivers often, so I haven’t had an issue With large amounts of debris. I do have to clean them out yearly, and while dirty, I don’t really find much in the floor. But I enjoy maintenance. The answer to your question is that yes, you need to clean them out occasionally.

My old Outlaw has a different floor than what’s currently available from NRS/STAR. The old design was basically a SUP attached to the floor a bucket boat with holes cut in the floor. However, the new design is similar in that the integrated drop stitch floor has a ring of 3/4-1” holes around the perimeter at water level. Water is always coming up through the holes and my floor had a ring of water constantly around it. It was a muddy mess in there. Perhaps the new Star raft floor design is better. I like the Aire sewn in floor.


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## mtnhoops (Feb 14, 2021)

Norcalcoastie said:


> ah. Yes - Tributaries have a ballast floor like other Aires (*except sealed floor models, I don’t think this is available on Tribs). On the bottom of the floor are small clusters of perforations that allow water to enter. Personally I love the ballast floor concept. Some folks have the misperception that you’re adding hundreds of pound of water, but that’s not the case. If the waters in the river, it’s neutrally buoyant. If the boat is being lifted out of the water in the event of a flip, then the weight can help prevent it. *This is no excuse to be a inexperienced or sloppy oarsman. I run a very heavy 16’ oar rigged raft and don’t have issues going where I need too.
> 
> I haven’t rowed a sealed floor. I kinda don’t want to. I bet they’re awesome. But pricey.
> 
> ...


So informative! Thank you for breaking it down for me. Not having experience with AIREs, I could never make sense of the concept. I've got it now. Thank you!


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## markhusbands (Aug 17, 2015)

I have an older 14' Outlaw (maybe 2016) and I have been pretty happy with it. I haven't really noticed a problem with it draining fast enough, but I haven't run the grand or anything where the boat filled right to the gunwales. I have run the Green a couple times, Westwater, Cataract...the boat bails water. The floor is quirky, and has both positives and negatives. There is some water around the edge of the floor where it wells through the bail holes, but jesus, you should see how much water is on the _outside_ of the boat. Doesn't bother me. A bigger issue is that it can take on some silt. I had a fair bit after a San Juan trip, but the floor comes out pretty easy for a rinse. You also musn't drop crap down there. If something goes under the floor it's pretty much irretrievable until after the trip. I haven't had it happen, because I'm attentive to it. _NO CANS_ on the floor. What about the positives? It's a very firm, flat drop stitch floor, easy to stand on, and it doesn't have the pressure relief valve and the silting problems associated with that, and can take tremendous pressure, and has no baffles, so those not infrequent issues with older I beam floors with blown baffles are out. And one more obvious thing: the bottom of the boat that is exposed to the most abrasion is not air holding, and it's thick and slick. It's important to keep the floor unloaded so it floats as high and dry as possible, but it's well protected from everything outside the boat. 

I've always admired the Tributaries, which seem like a very proven design for a good price. They run a little narrower for the length. I've contemplated upping to the 16 Trib because my frame and kit would swap right over with some extra length for a trailer frame. Now the Outlaw 15 is another contender, since it has common width with the 14. I think the new floor design looks smart. Doesn't change the size of the bailing holes, but I'd think it would reduce or eliminate silting and certainly would prevent stuff from slipping under the insert. Maybe less visible water around the margin as well. I personally think this design is going to become a standard way of producing value oriented boats with drop stitch floors. I would consider a newer outlaw given the competitive price.


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## jamesg (Sep 22, 2016)

I think your getting a better quality boat with a Trib IMO. Solid Aire construction, just a little heavier and less warranty than the American manufactured Aires. I have a 156R and a Trib 12. Love that little boat. 

I think the new Outlaw's are actually Star boats?


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

Norcalcoastie said:


> ah. Yes - Tributaries have a ballast floor like other Aires (*except sealed floor models, I don’t think this is available on Tribs). On the bottom of the floor are small clusters of perforations that allow water to enter. Personally I love the ballast floor concept. Some folks have the misperception that you’re adding hundreds of pound of water, but that’s not the case. If the waters in the river, it’s neutrally buoyant. If the boat is being lifted out of the water in the event of a flip, then the weight can help prevent it. *This is no excuse to be a inexperienced or sloppy oarsman. I run a very heavy 16’ oar rigged raft and don’t have issues going where I need too.
> 
> I haven’t rowed a sealed floor. I kinda don’t want to. I bet they’re awesome. But pricey.
> 
> I don’t run silty rivers often, so I haven’t had an issue With large amounts of debris. I do have to clean them out yearly, and while dirty, I don’t really find much in the floor. But I enjoy maintenance. The answer to your question is that yes, you need to clean them out occasionally.


I agree with all of this.
I don't love but don't hate the ballast floor on my Trib. It doesn't "track" but does have a lot of inertia. Norcalcoastie is right--it's neutrally buoyant, but it also has mass and tends to stay moving (or stopped) and does take effort to change direction. If you get off your line, you can't do a couple quick side draws to pull yourself back on line, you kind of have to plan ahead and stick with it. But it also pulls you through some spicy lines that would stall other boats.

A bunch of pics of my Trib 13.0:

The sealed floors are awesome, but not available on Tribs.
I like the sealed floor in my 156R because it's my multiday boat and multiday boats aren't by definition nimble. I like that it has saved my ass a few times (my excuse for being sloppy?!) .




markhusbands said:


> I've always admired the Tributaries, which seem like a very proven design for a good price. They run a little narrower for the length. I've contemplated upping to the 16 Trib because my frame and kit would swap right over with some extra length for a trailer frame.


My 13.0 Trib is wide for a 13. It's like 40" inside the tubes. I think the 14.0HD Trib is wide for a 14.
I agree that the 16.0 is narrow for a 16.


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## markhusbands (Aug 17, 2015)

MT4Runner said:


> My 13.0 Trib is wide for a 13. It's like 40" inside the tubes. I think the 14.0HD Trib is wide for a 14.
> I agree that the 16.0 is narrow for a 16.


Well, the 14 Outlaw is 7'3" wide with 22" tubes and inside width of 43" (pretty standard NRS 140 sizing), and the 14 Trib is 6'9" with 20" tubes and 40" inside, according to manufacturer specs. The difference gets more pronounced at 16, where the 16 Trib is 7'2" wide with 22" tubes and 42" inside. Like I said, I've geeked out over this because I've looked for options to get some more length (ergo space) without having to get all new frame and oars and such. And I am pretty sure I could put my current frame for my 14 outlaw on the 16 Trib and all the dimensions would work fine, but I'd get 2 extra feet for a trailer frame.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

My buddy's 16.0 feels REALLY long and skinny next to my 156R
But my 13.0 feels really big and wide next to my buddy's 143D!

I'm less familiar with the 14.0, but have been in a couple.


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## markhusbands (Aug 17, 2015)

MT4Runner said:


> My buddy's 16.0 feels REALLY long and skinny next to my 156R
> But my 13.0 feels really big and wide next to my buddy's 143D!
> 
> I'm less familiar with the 14.0, but have been in a couple.


yeah, when you look at the specs, you can see that Aire's idea of scaling (at least with tribs) is mostly stretching the length, whereas NRS scales up more across all the dimensions. I just looked at the Outlaw 160: 7'10". Pretty sure to move to that "big" 16-footer I'd need longer oars and a wider frame.


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## mtnhoops (Feb 14, 2021)

jamesg said:


> I think your getting a better quality boat with a Trib IMO. Solid Aire construction, just a little heavier and less warranty than the American manufactured Aires. I have a 156R and a Trib 12. Love that little boat.
> 
> I think the new Outlaw's are actually Star boats?


Thanks, jamesg. I'm glad that you love your Trib 12. The warranty is the same on both the Outlaw and the Trib, so that's a toss-up. Both have their quirks, but I am happy to hear from happy owners of both. It definitely helps in this process. 

And yes, the Outlaws are Stars, but NRS purchased Star. 

Thank you!


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## mtnhoops (Feb 14, 2021)

MT4Runner said:


> I agree with all of this.
> I don't love but don't hate the ballast floor on my Trib. It doesn't "track" but does have a lot of inertia. Norcalcoastie is right--it's neutrally buoyant, but it also has mass and tends to stay moving (or stopped) and does take effort to change direction. If you get off your line, you can't do a couple quick side draws to pull yourself back on line, you kind of have to plan ahead and stick with it. But it also pulls you through some spicy lines that would stall other boats.
> 
> A bunch of pics of my Trib 13.0:
> ...


Thanks MT4Runner! I love the pics and appreciate this review. Great info about the Trib floor and the pros/cons of it. Thank you.


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## TheAlaskan (Aug 9, 2015)

I owned a 14' 2015 Outlaw until last year (new 16' SOTAR, heyo!)

My friend bought a 14' RMR around the same time I got my Outlaw, so I got to do a lot of side-by-side comparison. I'd recommend going the RMR route if you can. I don't think it's much more expensive, but it's a lot more "straightforward" in terms of a self-bailing PVC boat. No bladders like Aire, no ever-changing design like the Outlaw, and I think the warranty is longer. My stepdad also enjoys his 16' RMR.

As luck would have it, my buddy is contemplating selling his boat package. PM me if you'd like me to put you in touch with him.


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## storm11 (Feb 10, 2006)

FWIW, for the 2021 Outlaws, they have moved the floor into a pocket, much like the Trib. It is still drop stitched, but it will take on ballast now just like a Trib. The older models did this anyway to an extent, but now it will be inside of a pocket.

I still think the Trib is the better buy. I still see 1st year green Tributary's (now almost 20 years old) still on the water and looking fine. If you can find one of the older light blue models in good shape, they used essentially the same fabric as the AIRE's of their same generation.


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## mtnhoops (Feb 14, 2021)

storm11 said:


> FWIW, for the 2021 Outlaws, they have moved the floor into a pocket, much like the Trib. It is still drop stitched, but it will take on ballast now just like a Trib. The older models did this anyway to an extent, but now it will be inside of a pocket.
> 
> I still think the Trib is the better buy. I still see 1st year green Tributary's (now almost 20 years old) still on the water and looking fine. If you can find one of the older light blue models in good shape, they used essentially the same fabric as the AIRE's of their same generation.


Thank you! Great info.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

markhusbands said:


> yeah, when you look at the specs, you can see that Aire's idea of scaling (at least with tribs) is mostly stretching the length


That makes a ton of sense then that the 13.0 is wider, 14.0 is similar-ish to other 14's and the 16.0 feels skinny.


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## c1seenmall (Jul 9, 2010)

My Outlaw nearly killed me. We got a tube stand, and when I high-sided my foot was pressed into the gap. The boat landed right side up, I landed in the water. With my foot was still in the boat. I was draped over the tube, upside down in class 4. I did claw my way back in and still had to fight to get my foot out. Call it a fluke but thank you NRS for allowing me to return the boat so I could trade up to Tributary.


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## markhusbands (Aug 17, 2015)

Sounds absolutely terrible, and a bit fluky, but in any case, the new floor design won't allow for that.


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## mtnhoops (Feb 14, 2021)

c1seenmall said:


> My Outlaw nearly killed me. We got a tube stand, and when I high-sided my foot was pressed into the gap. The boat landed right side up, I landed in the water. With my foot was still in the boat. I was draped over the tube, upside down in class 4. I did claw my way back in and still had to fight to get my foot out. Call it a fluke but thank you NRS for allowing me to return the boat so I could trade up to Tributary.


Yeek! I’ve had my foot caught between the floor and the perimeter tube a few times in Hysides and Sotars...nothing that I couldn’t wriggle out of, thank goodness. But your situation sounds extra scary.


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## cake (Jun 21, 2011)

I've got an older outlaw, maybe '14 or '15, with the SUP like floor. I got a deal on it that was too good to say no to, and as a first boat, it seemed like the right choice. A couple guide buddies didn't have much to say about the draining. I've had it for 3 years in the SW, and never had a concern about poor drainage. 
I like the floor, it's high pressure, when you pump it up, it really helps punch through waves. For low water stuff, I keep it softer.

It's a big, heavy pig of a boat. Start setting up early; momentum will help compensate for a less than perfect line. Tubes are big, its a stable platform. I haven't wanted for more, but when kid #2 pops out, I might switch over to a 15' nrs expedition and call it done.


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## mtnhoops (Feb 14, 2021)

cake said:


> I've got an older outlaw, maybe '14 or '15, with the SUP like floor. I got a deal on it that was too good to say no to, and as a first boat, it seemed like the right choice. A couple guide buddies didn't have much to say about the draining. I've had it for 3 years in the SW, and never had a concern about poor drainage.
> I like the floor, it's high pressure, when you pump it up, it really helps punch through waves. For low water stuff, I keep it softer.
> 
> It's a big, heavy pig of a boat. Start setting up early; momentum will help compensate for a less than perfect line. Tubes are big, its a stable platform. I haven't wanted for more, but when kid #2 pops out, I might switch over to a 15' nrs expedition and call it done.


You would definitely be "done" once you get an Expedition. Such a straight-forward, tried and true design and great quality. If I could afford it, I would definitely go that route. It's more the type of raft I'm used to than the Outlaw or Trib, but I can't pass up my good deals either. Thanks for your input. I'm glad you like the Outlaw's floor, and I'm glad you haven't noticed an issue with slow draining. That's a plus! Thanks.


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## Rick A (Apr 15, 2016)

I have an older model 14' Outlaw and I like the boat overall considering what I paid for it (they were cheaper a few years ago and I had a pro deal at the time). The floor does have it's issues, I installed foot cups in the bow because after paddling up front while letting a friend guide the boat I found that multiple times on that run my foot got wedged between floor and the tube tight enough to cause injury or entrapment in the event of a flip. With the foot cups people aren't so tempted to the to lock their foot in a way that it can get wedged in. As far as slow draining it doesn't seem to be an issue when paddle rafting or when using a day frame. 

I don't put any weight on the floor except for my passengers feet as I run a suspended floor in the rowers bay and a suspended mesh in the stern. The boat will hold a couple inches of water on the primary floor but water doesn't pool on top of the drop stitch insert which is pretty stiff and easy to walk on. It does drain considerably slower when setup with the multiple day frame. The drain holes only run along the flat portion of the tube and stop where the rocker begins so the water has to flow around the cargo in my first bay drop bag and the cooler or ammo cans in the fourth bay to reach the drain holes. There is no way the Outlaw will drain as fast as a lace in floor where water can actually drain from the bow and stern of the boat.

Overall all I'm happy with my purchase but if I had to start over today I probably wouldn't purchase the Outlaw. That said I won't be upgrading for a few more years and I'll be putting as many miles on it as I can until I do. I'll row it down the Main Salmon in June and the Grand Canyon again in December and love every minute of it. Enjoy the river and be safe.


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