# RMA with another great line



## the_dude (May 31, 2006)

great post. still laughin'. like to know what happened to the passengers.


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## TimWalker (Oct 25, 2003)

I wanna see....do you have a link?


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## jeffy (Sep 17, 2004)

Did this happen yesterday? Just wondering as BTO had a bunch of younger folks all wearing dresses and PFD's.... and floating in RMA boats.


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## Force (Apr 27, 2004)

carefull all. as lotaswims would say the river gods are always listening. if you're boating at you limit, we are all in-between swims. 

case in point from last weekend on the north fork of the crystal. i believe the quote was "it looks a notch harder than obj, no big deal." man that really hurt.


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## the_dude (May 31, 2006)

let me restate my post - still laughin' at p the k's post, not the photo. just great language. that's all.


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## lotsawater (Nov 18, 2003)

R.M.A. really stands for. . . 

Ready. Made. Accidents. Just add water!

A bottle of sunscree, $10.00. A pair of stunna shades from the shop. $15.00. A rafting t-shirt $20.00. Listening to a raft guide try to explain how it's not his fault for wrapping a raft to his clients. Priceless. 

How big was your tip on that trip?


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## boyImean (May 29, 2006)

this guide might have wrapped a boat, but he didnt lose his job for wearing a thong to work. p the k


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## farp (Nov 4, 2003)

This boat's guide is top notch. I know who it is. 
I've seen wrecks by great guides on much easier rapids than Killer. 
It just goes to show you that you're only one dumbass paddler away from taking a swim. 
That's why they don't call it Disney Land.


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## oopsiflipped (May 9, 2006)

farp said:


> I've seen wrecks by great guides on much easier rapids than Killer.
> It just goes to show you that you're only one dumbass paddler away from taking a swim.


That is about the biggest bunch of crap I've ever read. Blaiming your crew for wrapping on a f-ing bridge is about the lowest of the low. Guides are paid to deal with gapers. Anything that happens is always the guides fault.


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## farp (Nov 4, 2003)

oopsiflipped said:


> That is about the biggest bunch of crap I've ever read. Blaiming your crew for wrapping on a f-ing bridge is about the lowest of the low. Guides are paid to deal with gapers. Anything that happens is always the guides fault.


You'll learn sonny.


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## Force (Apr 27, 2004)

p the k in a thong? that sounds like a good story. do tell..


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## GoodTimes (Mar 9, 2006)

oopsiflipped said:


> That is about the biggest bunch of crap I've ever read. Blaiming your crew for wrapping on a f-ing bridge is about the lowest of the low. Guides are paid to deal with gapers. Anything that happens is always the guides fault.


Maybe in an oar-ed rig.....different story with a boat full of chubby's from Wisconsin that thinks it's a ride at Disneyland. Back in the day (on the Poudre), I took the boat to shore and told the crew to get out and wait for the bus on more than one occassion......which I never actually made them do......it was just a motivational tactic that usually worked!! There's only so much you can do as a "rudder".....you can't track the whole run....not on the Poudre.


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## EZ (Feb 10, 2004)

*Always the guide's fault?*

Oopsiflipped is also looking for guides to work for him on Clear Creek (separate post - *Guide Needed at Front Range's Premmier Outfitter*). 

He may have a hard time finding a guide that will step into this sort of management atmosphere.


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## Paul the Kayaker (Nov 7, 2004)

It was not a thong Boy, they were hot pants, and not once did they steer my vessle into a bridge, they may have caused others to crash though, I am not sure. You want to see gaper rafters crash, put two highschool girls in the front seats of the raft behind me and see if they paddle after seeing this fine thing, see who gets their tippy tip too. I may have to post myself on the bridge in that fine outfit with my roomie and see who else tries the splat line!!

P the K


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## Paul the Kayaker (Nov 7, 2004)

What guide cannot rudder the whole run by themselves? Lotsawater what do you think? Now there are two schools of thought there, both of which I have prescribed, either track the whole way down on your own and only have your passengers, not paddlers, paddle just so they think they are doing something, or have them paddle the whole way while you call turns and never once put your "rudder" as you call it in the water. Oh ya and wear hot pants while doing so, the tips come either way, one way you style the river and make them think they did that, the other you dont have to work you just sit back and relax. Think about it, I didnt get fired for having bad lines, or bad legs, now that I think about it it may have been the strip tease for the church group.

P the K


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## lotsawater (Nov 18, 2003)

Good Times

Did you work for RMA, or Rapid Transit?


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## oopsiflipped (May 9, 2006)

EZ said:


> Oopsiflipped is also looking for guides to work for him on Clear Creek (separate post - *Guide Needed at Front Range's Premmier Outfitter*).
> 
> He may have a hard time finding a guide that will step into this sort of management atmosphere.


By 'fault' I mean that a guide is always responsible for what happens to her or his raft. Sometimes you watch the show and sometimes you are the show, but being a pro means owning up to your carnage and not using the 'bad crew' cop out. If it is possible to 'rudder' a 9 load of overwight buckeyes down the Upper Gauley, then I would think the same is true for Poudre.

And yes, i do have alot to learn, pops. If I ever quit learning new things about whitewater and guiding then I'll know it is time to quit.


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## yourrealdad (May 25, 2004)

As P to K fellow hot pant wearer and constant triple digit tip getter I have to put in my .02. First, on the Poudre or any river the guide should always pony up and take the blame, but not in front of the custys. Second, RMA doesn't know about the Disney land splat because they don't run the shit unless you pay them for a full day so they have to make the most out of bridges. They just need to learn that you can't splat a bridge pylon. No offense to Rapid transit cause you all don't have the permits so no harm no foul. Third, I heard that the RMA folks were having problems Z dragging. Hint: deflate the tube that is under water. Lastly, hot pants don't get you fired, church groups do. Hot pants only attract hotties for the ultimate tip, or cougars who throw in a benjamin on top.

P.S. 
If you wnat to hone your guide skills on the Poudre the section after the Mish aka the maze, you should be able to get through there without calling a paddle stroke. Pineview above 3.5 should also be tracked. Step it up or get off the F'in river


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## GoodTimes (Mar 9, 2006)

A-1 for four yrs., MWD for one, guiding for a total of 17 and been rafting since 78' (just got out of diapers then but it counts). Not going to get into comparing runs but the Poudre is quite a different type of river than the Upper G.

Track Three Rock, Crystal Wall/Tunnel, and Mish at 4.0 without a paddle stroke from the custy's and I'll be impressed. Sounds like I need to come back up and take some lesson's from the new-schoolers.  

I do agree that the guide is totally responsible and "bad crew" is a cop out....not defending....just saying the guide can't do it ALL is some cases.

DAMMIT....I never thought of hot pants......I always wore a speedo under my farmer john wetsuit which I would conveniently remove as we were loading rafts at the take out. Rollin' in the benji's by the end of the week.


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## JBL (Jun 7, 2006)

When you say that the run should be 'tracked', what do you mean?


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## GoodTimes (Mar 9, 2006)

JBL said:


> When you say that the run should be 'tracked', what do you mean?


Full boat of custy's/passengers, not a single paddle stroke from any of them. Use only your guide stick, the current, eddy lines, etc... to navigate the river/rapids. The heavier the boat the harder it becomes. The ribbed floor on most rafts (Aire floors sometimes aren't ribbed for example) is where the word "track" comes from because when placed on an angle to the current the ribs alone will actually move the raft VERY slightly in either direction.


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## poudreraft (Sep 21, 2004)

Goodtimes-
I remember those speedos were good for attracting the young rave boys!:twisted: 
Are you going to be up here showing all of us Poudre guides how to track the whole damn river soon?? I could use the tutoring. Let me know when you'll be around again. Oh yeah how was the Grand?
Frek


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## GoodTimes (Mar 9, 2006)

YEAH RIGHT.....coming from "the legend", grandfather poudreraft. I can't hold a candle to the skillz of the Frek. You know damn well I can't track the WHOLE river (you were embarrassingly present during my biggest carn episode!!).....you'll have to ask a few of these other guys that can. Plus, I retired the speedo's so it's definitely out of the question.

The Grand was perfect! I'll let you know when I'm coming up again....


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## stinginrivers (Oct 18, 2003)

Just curious, not trying to start a flame war or anything,but what makes the poudre so difficult? I keep hearing people state that the poudre is a harder river to raft guide.

I have run the poudre a couples times, but at low water, and I didn't think it was a very difficult river to run. Does it change that much at higher flows to make it that much more challenging? 

I think the sections I have run is upper and lower rustic, the put in below the narrows through killer bridges and pine view.

Is it because it has a more consistent gradient so you need to stay on line at all times with more water? Does it get pushier? I don't remember too many large rocks too form huge holes, but it was a few years ago so my memory might not be so good on that.

What rivers would you compare it to?

Some rivers that I have rafted that you might be able to compare, clear creek all sections, big thompson below the class V section, upper yough, alto-alto, SBC, anything on the ark, bailey?

thanks


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## jeffy (Sep 17, 2004)

So when was the photo taken?


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## jballen1 (Oct 27, 2006)

that photo was taken on tuesday 6/5/07


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## boyImean (May 29, 2006)

p the k, and slow cobi, multiple high-fives. the hot pants were, well, just that, i suppose, if your a highschool girl during church camp.
it is not that the poudre is that difficult to guide it's just dangerous if a customer takes a long swim in the cold water, you never know when you will get them back to your boat, or you might just forget them in cartiac corner, right p.


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## raftus (Jul 20, 2005)

Killer Bridge is one of those rapids that with a bad crew can be a real bitch. I am a former upper Gauley guide, former Poudre guide, and worked as a commercial guide on several other rivers in other parts of the country. I have never wrapped there, but it has been the location of some of my worst all time commercial lines. 

I would love to meet any guide who has commercially run from Upper Mish through BTO without calling a single stroke with a fully loaded boat and without any swimmers or carnage. I have serious doubt's that such a person exists. If they do exist they must be a mack daddy j-stroke lovin guiding machine and I will happily buy them a beer if they share their secrets with me. 

In all seriousness a good guide can get away with calling very few strokes, and it is a good training tool to practice using your crew as little as possible - but sometimes a crew that you have trained well, given refreshers to throughout the day, and has preformed fairly well, can still cause a serious snafu. Last season I had a crew that backstroked when I clearly called for forward strokes after they saw another boat dumptruck. We were trying to get around a massive pourover - I guess they though we were going to try for shore - so I turned the boat downstream at the last second and thankfully we didn't flip in the ensuing surf session. 

As to why the Poudre has a reputation for being hard to guide - it generally is a bit more technical than the Royal Gorge or Numbers and I think it has more sex rocks (small rocks that tend to screw up your line at inopportune times) at common flows. But I would also say that runs like Slaughterhouse are equally as hard to guide and help to develop some of the same skills. For that fact guiding parkdale at 400 cfs without touching any rocks is just as good for guide skill as just about anything out there - at least on the technical side. At reasonably high flows the Poudre also has a nice mix of technical lines, holes to surf, holes that can and will flip you, tight lines with wraps if you miss and good general variety. IMHO.


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## yourrealdad (May 25, 2004)

Raftus, there is such a guide that exists. I shall not name names due to this guides humble life, but a guide that used to guide for A-1 and then Rapid transit grew up guiding 18' boats in the Himalayas and then came to the pu*$# Sh%@ we call rafting. I once saw him leap from his own boat grab on to the wall at Groover hold on with one hand and push another boat down with his other hand to keep it from flipping. He then landed back into his own boat which he had pushed into the micro eddy along the wall. This man is able to get down any river without calling a paddle stroke, and fortunately he trained me for two days. In those two days I became the 37th best raft guide to ever guide the Poudre. My career was tragically cut short by a freak speedo hot pant incident and some thirteen yr. old church girls and a extremely jealous church group leader. And he was jealous after the freezing cold trip if you are pickin up what I am putting down.


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## raftus (Jul 20, 2005)

yourrealdad said:


> Raftus, there is such a guide that exists... a guide that used to guide for A-1 and then Rapid transit grew up guiding 18' boats in the Himalayas and then came to the pu*$# Sh%@ we call rafting.


Yeah, I am 99% sure I know who you are talking about and he is a great guide. He still works for RTR if it is the person I am thinking about. And I must say that one beer is never enough for the guy - and I like that trait in any guide. Actually we call each other twins - in the Arnold/DeVito tradition, despite the fact that I have no where near the appropriate muscles. 

Whoever fired you for wearing a speedo is a complete loser. Were you also wearing you water wings at the time? Cause picking on anyone wearing water wings is just plain wrong.


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## Paul the Kayaker (Nov 7, 2004)

Ok Ok so where to start. The tracking the whole river comment was a overstatement, maybe you need to call 3 moves, back 2 left side of 3way below 2.0, back 2 at the end of tunnel above 3.0, forward 2 in pineview above 4.5, other than that, not so much, lotsofwater can concur. And riverstinger you rafted bailey and south boulder creek? At what level and in what boat? Anyway raft guiding is like driving the school bus of the river, just put the sheep in the boat and go, get your tip and go to the bar to drink as much as you can, wake up and do it all over again, you do this for 4 months and them scatter to somewhere else for a while. And to the debate as to why the poudre is hard to guide, it's not! Who are you boyimean, you got me pegged! Now that I think about it it probably was not the strip tease, or the ultimate tip with the foreign chick, the 3 high fives, the hot pants, the booze and ensuing hangovers, the absence of a V chip, the bug run, the guide introductions, the yelling like apes from the bus window, the obviously flirtatious looks handed out to customers sexy daughters from behind shades, or loss of Dick in the room of doom. Rather it must have been because I was lead paddler in the race and we took second, I did see a pair of nice tits at pineview though and lost my concentration, sorry. Anyway good luck dodging bridges, and RMA guide man I am not calling you out, I thought it was a rookie move, however the rookies at their training meeting today told me, "Oh no that was one of our better, older, guides" end quote!

P the K


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## yourrealdad (May 25, 2004)

Raftus: the water wings were not worn at the time of said hot pants incident, nor was the frog hat, pirate's dewrag and patch, snorkel and mask and flippers, or three piece hound's tooth suit, or any other guide equipment that I have used over the years. Any of those combined with the hot pants would cause a normal 300lb Texan to immediately drop dead and for the earth to start rotating backwards thus reversing time. I do however use these combinations at the scenes of bars to wake passed out patrons up, works kinda like smelling salts.
Yeah and who are you boyimean?


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## Randaddy (Jun 8, 2007)

The guide on this trip was better than all of you pieces of shit. It's easy to talk shit online you bunch of chode sucking plastic riding turd burlers. This can happen to anyone, so be nice or I'll plow your sisters like I did your mothers. Douche bags.


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## stinginrivers (Oct 18, 2003)

P the K

I r-1 a stinger, and my choice flows on bailey are from 250-500, above 500 fitting under the bridges up top gets sketchy and r-1ing it gets a bit pushy. I don't remember the flow on SBC but I think somewhere around 300ish, I personally will not raft that again because I crashed hard on the dam.

The best guides out there will and still do flip and wrap, if you think you are above that well youv'e got another thing coming.

Yes, I am positive there are quite a few guides out there that can run the poudre without calling strokes. There are guides that are all over the world that this is all they do year round on extremely tough rivers with crews that don't speak their language.

I am assuming most of the guides up there are just like the rest of the guides in colorado where as they only boat that river and your season is 3-4 months long. Maybe you head back east for gauley season but come on the upper g is a huge highway that isn't that of hard to run. For christ sakes half the time you and your crew have had a few hours of sleep and you are running blind in the fog.

Go travel the world and guide, head to south america, africa, norway, switzerland, new zealand, australia, japan you will meet some amazing boaters. Hell go to cali and guide on cherry creek.

Try to imagine guideing with 2 japanese, 3 korean and a brazilian, and yes you are giving 3 sets of commands for each move. You quickly learn how to manauver your raft by yourself.

Sorry rant over...


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## boyImean (May 29, 2006)

this is one of the more funny posts i've seen "it's easy to talk shit online you bunch of chode sucking plastic riding turd burlers... I'll plow your sisters like I did your mothers. Douche bags." i guess it is easy to talk shit online.


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## stinginrivers (Oct 18, 2003)

oh yea one more thing, it's doesn't matter if you crash but it's how you clean your shit up after.

and boating with water wings is the only way to go, not sure about the hot pants though.


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## GoodTimes (Mar 9, 2006)

This is one of the funnier threads in awhile....dig it.

I think I remember that RTR guy....great dude if its the same guy I'm thinkin' of, did he guide it from 96-00? Because of him and a couple other muscle heads.....RTR will always stand for Real Tough Rafters in my book!!  

Okay, maybe it CAN be tracked from top to bottom, I'm not sayin' it's impossible.....but why????? I like to be able to lift my beer to my face at the end of the day. I remember giving it one hell of a try and made it to about Mish when I realized.....I'm getting paid to make OTHER people work. I had more fun trying to keep my stick OUT of the water....plus I didn't have to worry about the speedo riding so much if I wasn't working so hard.


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## Randaddy (Jun 8, 2007)

*Rafting online*

Never been on here before today. Used to talk about rafting at the bar and forget about it the next day. Weak. Check the flows and shut up you hippie trash bags. By the way, hippies smell like shit for evolutionary reasons. Die off and get it over with.


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## Niftytricks.com (May 18, 2006)

yourrealdad said:


> Raftus, there is such a guide that exists. I shall not name names due to this guides humble life, but a guide that used to guide for A-1 and then Rapid transit grew up guiding 18' boats in the Himalayas and then came to the pu*$# Sh%@ we call rafting...


I work daily with this river master and concur and have even seen him do it. It was shitty for his tips but he pulled it off... easily.


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## yourrealdad (May 25, 2004)

Randaddy, First I have no sisters so you must have mistaken my 6'2" 190lb brother for a large amazonian woman. It happens to the best of them, just ask Phat Lip from the Pharcyde. Second of all my mom has been dead for fifteen years so you must be into necrophilia if you plowed her. Or maybe you just meant that you plowed her over in the field she was buried in which isn't that cool. I am assuming you have a plow because you appear to be some dumbass 4X4 riding gunslinging, Kenney Chesney my pants are so tight that even your 2" of pure fury boner looks big in them hick, since you hate hippies so much. And if you are concerned about body oder so bad you must not be a real raft guide cause every guide knows that during the season deodorant sales decline 76% and that showers are taken in the river.
Stop making pearls and get a towel for all that sand.


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## BobN (Mar 28, 2006)

*Where, Where, Where*

Where can the picture that started all this craziness be viewed?


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## eddie (Apr 12, 2005)

Hey frek & jeb, this post has gotten pretty funny. Think any of these kids were around in the old days? We bleed blue!!!!


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## oopsiflipped (May 9, 2006)

Hahaha. See, the internet isn't just for porn. Randaddy must be a Poudre guide based on his lousy sense of humor. Or myrealdad in disguise. Which I guess would still make him a Poudre guide.


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## yourrealdad (May 25, 2004)

I would never disgrace myself by using an alias, unless it involved that internet porn you speak of.


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## stinginrivers (Oct 18, 2003)

hold on, your saying there is porn on the internet... what the hell am I doing on this site then.:-D


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## yourrealdad (May 25, 2004)

"Its inside the computer?"


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## Paul the Kayaker (Nov 7, 2004)

Well after a weekend of plastic turd slinging I finally have time to post again, and I feel the duty since I started this conversation, so let me start by asking Randaddy to stay in the store and sling sweet kayaking stickers, we all know you tell your friends your a raft guide but really you ride the pine behind the register. And if your going to lie to someone why wouldn't you lie and tell him your a kayaker, maybe he knows you to well to know you could never be a plastic slinging turd booger. Put your singlet back on and ride your color changing Klein home and make your 3rd post worthy of reading. As to everyone else the picture is on the Freestyle/rodeo section on the buzz. Now I am sure this will happen again this summer, so feel free to post any more great pictures, thanks again ready made accidents for a great laugh. Truly, and never hidden behind an alias, or the western slope, P the K.


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## boyImean (May 29, 2006)

p, i would have imagined you would have figured out who i am by now, i dated your girlfriend. by the way, she's a catch, hold on to her. and YRD, i was there when you thought it would be a good idea to jog back to the fort from from the rockies game via I-25. i have over 500 river miles with the two of you and over 1700 steakout miles. keep the humour on the buzz and i will be back up in the fort this fall for the end of the season. oh yeah, did you ever run gore during big water.
randaddy, if you have been boating since 1980, why the highschool insults, i stopped talking about plowing people's mom when i was 13, you must be 40, or lying. so pull out the old pirouette, and give the combat roll another go, you'll probably enjoy it.
k


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## Paul the Kayaker (Nov 7, 2004)

I would have figured if I spend the energy on it, but I didnt. I do not try to run home from baseball, that was my crazy roomie, dont get us two mixed up. Anyway see you when you get back, we will have to add a few miles to the Steakout log book. We didnt get on Gore big time, no one wanted to come with us they thought 2300 was nuts, I saw it would be something to see, plus no flat water so why not. Anyway keep building, and quit dreaming about the days when you dated my girlfriend. Later.

P the K


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## yourrealdad (May 25, 2004)

BoyiMean, I miss you so much. You can date my girlfriend anytime, although I hear your dating this sweet yoga instructor, who I coincidently went to high school with. Small world huh? You should come up sooner than the end of summer, cause we are going to have a good year up on ye ol poudre (thats french bitches) And I know there is nothing to do in BV besides check out the cuties working at CKS and going to Salida to work on your sonic buttmonkey typhoon mcnasty.
Oh, and I only ran home from the Rockies game because I had to work off all the sparks and PBR, you probably could have used a jog to burn off that brownie.


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## Randaddy (Jun 8, 2007)

Paul, I can't even work the register. I can barely read. Head up in there!


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## yourrealdad (May 25, 2004)

Nice Randaddy, I thought we had lost you there. Probably takes a while to find someone to read five pages of worthless Mountainbuzz crap to you and then type out a response huh? Were have all the good samaritans gone?


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