# Hiking Around Westwater's Rapids



## BullSCit (Nov 12, 2003)

It is getting close to applying for some Westwater permits and I was wondering if it is possible to hike around the stretch of the bigger rapids? I was hoping to take my daughter, but when we get to the start of the rapids to hike my wife and her down to where it gets calm again. My mind was pretty polluted when I did Westy last year, and I remember the rapids being about 3 miles long. So I was hoping the hike wouldn't be much more that that. If it is possible is river left or right any better?


----------



## kayakfreakus (Mar 3, 2006)

I remember people walking Skull before, it can be done on river left. But I do not think it is possible to hike them all easily. Remember that in a couple places you are fairly gorged in and having to retrieve swimmers/gear to moving rafts as there was no "shore" to move them too.....


----------



## hotchkiss (Jun 17, 2006)

I do not think it is possible to hike the rapids, especially as a young girl. Still, I think she would love the trip and you would be happy you took her. There are other options, sending her down with rafters who are familiar with Westwater while you followed.


----------



## KSC (Oct 22, 2003)

Sounds like a bad idea to me. I've never tried it but it seems like the hike might be more of an adventure than the rapids. If you're looking for a mellow family trip why not just do the section above?


----------



## caseybailey (Mar 11, 2008)

Ask the rangers. It seems like it could be done. You would need to start fairly immediately after little D. I'm not sure which side of the river would be better.


----------



## yak1 (Jan 28, 2006)

You can hike around skull on the L the rest have no real hiking around options in the canyon maybe the section below Dewey bridge or the Delores


----------



## mania (Oct 21, 2003)

how old? I think I will finally be taking my 7 yr old this year at late summer lower flows (she will be almost 8 by then and has been swimming). walking around would be rather challenging.


----------



## TakemetotheRiver (Oct 4, 2007)

The hikers would be completely out of sight of the boats on the water at most places. It would be difficult to set up a rendevous point after the rapids.


----------



## striker (Aug 22, 2007)

I do not think hiking around the rapids could be easily done. I have seen people hike around skull because they lost a boat, and they still had to jump into the tail waters of skull where the current is still quite strong.


----------



## -k- (Jul 15, 2005)

Big factor is what the flows are when you put in. I think if you get below 10,000 you should be able to eddy out for most rapids to walk (Rafter's correct me if I am wrong on this because I am a kayaker and eddying out is obviously much easier). Beyond those flows it may be too hard to eddy out, or put you in a bad spot to set up correctly to run the rapid any ways. There are others on hear that know a lot more about this stretch, but it is something to think about. Walking the whole section would likely be a pain and not worth it.


----------



## BullSCit (Nov 12, 2003)

Sorry I should have provided more detail. I want to hike around all the rapids at once. Starting at Little D and hiking until it got easy going again. I was hoping that would be a 3-4 mile hike and then I would jog back up sans wife and kid and rally back down. My daughter is young, and hopefully in a feew years she will be rafting down the rapids. And walking even Skull would be tough. I hiked back up it a couple of times last year, to try and get a better line down, and fell several times, and I have no desire doing that with precious cargo. So I was really hoping for a nice easy going trail that had a nice view over the river. My daughter loves the water and loves to camp, but just isn't big enough for a swim in big water. Thanks again for any info.


----------



## Randaddy (Jun 8, 2007)

Hiking all of the rapids would be retarded. It's a way bigger safety risk for your child as you're going to end up losing your party and having to spend the night in the desert and walk to Cisco. Float Horsethief and Ruby canyons, or Labyrinth on the Green, or Cisco to Dewey Bridge, or one of the other hundred and fifty flat desert floats. 

Or tell your little girl to toughen up...


----------



## GoodTimes (Mar 9, 2006)

That would be a LONG hike over some pretty serious terrain far above the river....there would be no way to keep visual contact with them....not from little D all the way through the rapids. I think it's more conceivable to eddy out and walk all the rapids shoreline than having to deal with a full hike. Skull being the most difficult eddy to catch....and there would be a fair amount of ferrying to find a walk-able path around some of the rapids.

If you're confident in hitting all the eddy's....it wouldn't be too bad....although entirely avoiding any ripples/whitewater would be next to impossible.

Ruby/Horsethief...........


----------



## Andy H. (Oct 13, 2003)

Having gone on a couple of hikes in Westwater Canyon, I'll easily say that anyone hearty enough to do an overland traverse above the river from Little D to below Last Chance should be able to handle a swim in the rapids just fine. If your wife runs extreme adventure races and is willing to carry your daughter on significant stretches, then doing this may be a possibility. "Walking around" individual rapids such as Skull or Sock it to Me would either be really treacherous or require technical climbing gear.

There are lots of much better flatwater and Class II floats to go on with the young'uns.


----------



## yakkeranna (Jul 8, 2009)

I did my first westwater as a passenger when I was 12, and started kayaking it when I was 13. Lower water levels are definitely less scary, but I don't think I would feel confident taking a kid that wouldn't be up for swimming. You could do the ruby horsethief section with the fam, and finish up with a westwater without the kids though...


----------



## TakemetotheRiver (Oct 4, 2007)

BullSCit said:


> Sorry I should have provided more detail. I want to hike around all the rapids at once. Starting at Little D and hiking until it got easy going again. I was hoping that would be a 3-4 mile hike and then I would jog back up sans wife and kid and rally back down. My daughter is young, and hopefully in a feew years she will be rafting down the rapids. And walking even Skull would be tough. I hiked back up it a couple of times last year, to try and get a better line down, and fell several times, and I have no desire doing that with precious cargo. So I was really hoping for a nice easy going trail that had a nice view over the river. My daughter loves the water and loves to camp, but just isn't big enough for a swim in big water. Thanks again for any info.


 
It would take a full day of hiking to get to a suitable rendevous point at the end- you would not be able to walk them down, then hike back up in one day. The trail, from my understanding, is quite a ways from the river- you wouldn't even be able to see it for most of the hike.

It's a nice thought, but you probably ought to go for a San Juan permit, or just float R/H and then have your wife and daughter run shuttle for a one day canyon trip without them- I have considered doing this with my son a few times, but can't get anyone who wants to run shuttle and entertain my 5 year old while I have all the fun.


----------



## caseybailey (Mar 11, 2008)

BullSCit said:


> Sorry I should have provided more detail. I want to hike around all the rapids at once. Starting at Little D and hiking until it got easy going again. I was hoping that would be a 3-4 mile hike and then I would jog back up sans wife and kid and rally back down. My daughter is young, and hopefully in a feew years she will be rafting down the rapids. And walking even Skull would be tough. I hiked back up it a couple of times last year, to try and get a better line down, and fell several times, and I have no desire doing that with precious cargo. So I was really hoping for a nice easy going trail that had a nice view over the river. My daughter loves the water and loves to camp, but just isn't big enough for a swim in big water. Thanks again for any info.


I got what you were saying...I just don't think reading comprehension is a strong suit of the buzzards. So far I haven't heard anyone say they've done it (just alot of people saying "don't do it"). As I said before, I recommend contacting the ranger...they'll give it to you straight. 

As for the guy who says that hiking around skull requires technical climbing...he must be on something. It's a hike.


----------



## jeffsssmith (Mar 31, 2007)

It's pretty much not possible. Of course on "could" hike but I have 80 trips in Westwater and have been on the rims and hiked extensively in the side canyons and there is just no real possibilities for hiking without spending multiple hours hiking down into and back out of side canyons not to mention that the canyon is maybe 700-800 vertical feet deep at Little D which would mean that much vertical just to get to the rim. Hiking at river level is only possible for short distances due to rough talus and huge boulders and gorged out sections. Raft another stretch of river or float the whole Westwater Canyon are the only real options.


----------



## kazak4x4 (May 25, 2009)

I don't think there is an option of walking most dangerous rapids. Skull is about it, but that's probably the easiest rapid in the bunch if done right (pull right wall to left sneak). 

Probably in the boat would be the safest place to be. Just make sure you have plenty of seasoned WW boaters in front of you in case of swimmers or a flip. And do not take kids above 9,000 cfs. I think 4,000 is the safest level.


----------



## RCarl (Jun 8, 2004)

It sounds like the consensus is that it _may _possible to hike around all of the rapids, but that even attempting it with a seven year old would be a really, really bad idea.


----------



## caseybailey (Mar 11, 2008)

I've never done it, but I heard that there are still Utes in the area that may take your wife and child hostage.

Seriously, ASK THE RANGER. It seems to me that if you get on top of the right layer around Little D, it wouldn't be that bad. As I've studied the topos, it looks like it goes.* **
*(I must say that as I type this, I wouldn't hesitate to do it, but I would never send my child and wife into a desert hike if they didn't know exactly where they were going).

** The lack of mettle displayed in the comments of this thread have me concerned. If your someone who really thinks that you couldn't do it, you should re-think whether you should be doing multi-day raft runs away from civilization. I personally feel that you need to be responsible for yourself (including how to hike around or out of something).


----------



## Andy H. (Oct 13, 2003)

caseybailey said:


> *(I must say that as I type this, I wouldn't hesitate to do it....
> 
> ** The lack of mettle displayed in the comments of this thread have me concerned. If your someone who really thinks that you couldn't do it, you should re-think whether you should be doing multi-day raft runs away from civilization. I personally feel that you need to be responsible for yourself (including how to hike around or out of something).


I don't think the issue's a lack of mettel on the part of those responding to BullSCit's posts, but that basically we're talking about either taking a 5- or 7- year old kid over lots of scrambling and hand-over-hand on steep, polished rock just above the river, or on a 4 or 5 mile hike on a trail that may or may not be there through rugged terrain and potentially scorching conditions from May through September. Take a look at it on Google Earth and you start to get an idea of just how rough the terrain is within a couple of miles of the river. If you ever take a 7-yr old on that hike, just let us know how it turns out, eh? 

If you know anything about the terrain around there or dealing with a kid that age, you don't have to be a rocket scientist or a Westwater Ranger for the phrase "not recommended" to pop into your mind when someone asks about hiking their kid around all of the Westy rapids.


----------



## st2eelpot (Apr 15, 2008)

Buddy of mine was a ranger in the trailer there a few years back. When I talked to him about it he said the only thing there is a trail run from the put-in to the take-out (which he would run to set his own shuttle). 

As said previously, w/ the side canyons plus being gorged in, there isn't much other stuff. There are some BLM trails on the river left, but they don't go where you are asking about due to the cliff on river left at the end of the rapids.


----------



## kclowe (May 25, 2004)

Are you for real? You should at least give them a bike. OR A CAR!!!!!


----------



## BullSCit (Nov 12, 2003)

kclowe said:


> Are you for real? You should at least give them a bike. OR A CAR!!!!!


 
Sounds like I will ask the rangers. I was just hoping someone had experience with this. And I would never let them do this by themselves. I would go down with them, probably with a majority of the time with my daughter in a backpack, and then jog back up. I would never ever let them do it by themselves. Heck, my wife gets lost at Monarch everytime we go.

I was hoping to link Ruby/Horse with Westwater. We don't have a "sitter" to look after my daughter in the area, so I was hoping to find a way to get around the meat.

And I agree with Casey, normally I would just do it. But it is a hard position to put my daughter into. So next trip I get, I might just wake up real early armed with a GPS (don't worry I have good desert/mountain exploration skills, and just want the GPS to make it more efficient) and see if I can find an efficient route.

Thanks again everyone for all the info.


----------



## Randaddy (Jun 8, 2007)

BullSCit said:


> Sounds like I will ask the rangers. I was just hoping someone had experience with this. And I would never let them do this by themselves. I would go down with them, probably with a majority of the time with my daughter in a backpack, and then jog back up. I would never ever let them do it by themselves. Heck, my wife gets lost at Monarch everytime we go.
> 
> I was hoping to link Ruby/Horse with Westwater. We don't have a "sitter" to look after my daughter in the area, so I was hoping to find a way to get around the meat.
> 
> ...


Dude, you have probably 1,000 Westwater trips worth of experience in people saying "Don't do it." I even said "You're retarded." Listen to us. You plan to throw your daughter in a backpack and try to hike around some of the gentler desert class III around on a rugged desert trail/scramble? You're going to waste your time scouting this out on a trip before that on your own? This whole proposition is way more dangerous than running the rapid with your kid. Just give up on the trip and accept that you're a father now. Do something appropriate for your group, like Labyrinth. I love big rapids and I'd rather do Labyrinth than Westwater anyway. It's Westy, big f'in deal.


----------



## kazak4x4 (May 25, 2009)

I floated with a lot of old timers of Westy and I had the same question for them to take my 6 year old down with me. They all advised me to wait a few years, even though I can probably run WW with my eyes shut now. Some rivers are just not worth putting your kids in danger.

You might want to look for a San Juan trip, now that's a trip kids could appreciate!


----------



## CoBoater (Jan 27, 2007)

*Dumb Idea Jeans*



BullSCit said:


> Sounds like I will ask the rangers. QUOTE]
> 
> let us know what they say - rangers are the only ones that know if ist a dumb idea. you could probably find a route up out of Little Hole, climb about 700' in elevation over a mile up onto the plateau, then head to the top of Big Hole, climb down, drop the wife and kid off, and come back. Only about 6 miles each way, you should get back to camp for breakfast if you start about 3 am an both you are in really good shape. The wife should be able to find some tammies to hang out under while you're going back and on the river, she shouldn't have to wait more than abotu 6 or 8 hrs for you to pick her up. sounds like a great way to spend a day on the river - getting a short night of sleep, bustin her ass and then waiting under the tammies while you have all the fun.
> 
> ...


----------



## jeffsssmith (Mar 31, 2007)

CoBoater said:


> BullSCit said:
> 
> 
> > Sounds like I will ask the rangers. QUOTE]
> ...


----------



## GoodTimes (Mar 9, 2006)

I'm sure you've probably camped at ULD or LLD once or twice....and I'm going to assume you've hiked up to the tower to the east. Now, the hike in and of itself ain't bad at all...actually quite easy....but do it about 15-20 times in a row and cross the LD drainage repeatedly during the hike....that'll give you an idea of what the entire hike will entail.

I don't think anyone is saying it can't be done.....just that it ain't worth it. Not for 5 miles of WW.....and if you plan on walking it with them and then hiking back up to run the rapids....might as well add another day to the trip.

I can't imagine the rangers advising any differently.


----------



## swimteam101 (Jul 1, 2008)

*Westy With Kids*

I floated from Loma to the Westwater put in with the wife and 5 year old we took 2 days to get to Westwater camped at the Westy put in I made sure to be the first up and on the river and row all the way from the put in to Cisco or Fish Ford. I did Fish Ford (25ish long miles at 8000 cfs) witch involved ferrying the family across from the parking lot to the campsite. While I rowed all day they got up drove into Grand Junction and went shopping and ate lunch then drove to Fish Ford and waited. We then floated 2 more days together. THIS WAS A BIG PAIN IN THE [email protected] It involved biking the kokopelli trail to set up the shuttle , Camping at the Fruita put in and rowing next the Interstate for 5 miles , Not getting to enjoy camping in the canyon , and I felt selfish the whole time for not going to the San Juan and enjoying the time with the family , mellow water , and amazing scenery. I hope this helps.


----------



## caseybailey (Mar 11, 2008)

Andy H. said:


> I don't think the issue's a lack of mettel on the part of those responding to BullSCit's posts, but that basically we're talking about either taking a 5- or 7- year old kid over lots of scrambling and hand-over-hand on steep, polished rock just above the river, or on a 4 or 5 mile hike on a trail that may or may not be there through rugged terrain and potentially scorching conditions from May through September. Take a look at it on Google Earth and you start to get an idea of just how rough the terrain is within a couple of miles of the river. If you ever take a 7-yr old on that hike, just let us know how it turns out, eh?
> 
> If you know anything about the terrain around there or dealing with a kid that age, you don't have to be a rocket scientist or a Westwater Ranger for the phrase "not recommended" to pop into your mind when someone asks about hiking their kid around all of the Westy rapids.


Sorry to ruffle your feathers, but I believe this is the part of my post that you conveniently left out when you quoted me that addresses what you are talking about above:
"*(I must say that as I type this, I wouldn't hesitate to do it, but I would never send my child and wife into a desert hike if they didn't know exactly where they were going)." 

I hear alot of people "not recommending" something that they haven't done. We've all been in the area and know it's rough terrain, but to say I wouldn't do it when they haven't done it....?


----------



## gapers (Feb 14, 2004)

Somebody just do the f'n hike already and shut up about it. BullSClit,we're awaiting your TR..


----------



## Tbird (Oct 9, 2005)

*The hike*



BullSCit said:


> It is getting close to applying for some Westwater permits and I was wondering if it is possible to hike around the stretch of the bigger rapids? I was hoping to take my daughter, but when we get to the start of the rapids to hike my wife and her down to where it gets calm again. My mind was pretty polluted when I did Westy last year, and I remember the rapids being about 3 miles long. So I was hoping the hike wouldn't be much more that that. If it is possible is river left or right any better?


I have hiked both sides and I can tell you it won’t happen! They will get cliffed out. In addition I have run into some big cats in that area.


----------



## tyaker (Dec 11, 2004)

Hey, lets get the feds to pump money into the Moab ranger district, and they can build a nice railed walkway path all along the canyon so grammy and the munchkins can watch and laugh at Uncle Bob as he flips his Fish-Hunter inflatable in that silly little Sock-it-to-me. Then they can throw their ice cream cones into the recycle bin and take group pics with Ranger Alvin. (gag/retch)

What's that I hear? Oh, its just Ed Abbey chuckling ironically in his grave.

It's f**king wilderness. It doesn't cater to carting little kids around in it. Use it proper or stay the f**k out.


----------



## ric (Apr 12, 2004)

*Strangest thread I ever read!!!!*

I'm sorry to say this, but you and your family don't belong in there! Wait untill your kid is older and has more experience then share the ride......
There is no way to hike from Marble C past SITM???
NOT safely and not for a kid!!!
I've been in that canyon for 28 yrs and volunteer checkins!
If you have to ask then you should not be in there, yes kids do run the canyon but with people who know what there doing!
sorry 4 the bluntness


----------



## GoodTimes (Mar 9, 2006)

tyaker said:


> take group pics with Ranger Alvin. (gag/retch)


That part.....right there....made me laugh out loud. Such a cantankerous old cuss.


----------



## caseybailey (Mar 11, 2008)

"Use it proper or stay the f**k out." 
I agree. Get some plastic or rubber, pull up to the concrete ramp, float the river, and try not to get dirty.

Hilarious. This guy should be a ranger.


----------



## cayo 2 (Apr 20, 2007)

You could hike out at Little Hole ,before Little D on the other side,at least a mile of moderately steep easy trail to a Mesa Verde type overhang with a steep trail to the rim on the left.You can drive to this point,tricky to find.From there you can probably shuttle them over to the head of Big Hole and descend down ,don't know how hard the trail is.Walking between the two would be 3 to 5 mile trek across badlands with baking heat and no shade ,less than optimal for anyone let alone small kid,plus the ascent and descent.Sort of defeats the purpose of running Westwater too.Trying to traverse below the rim gets dicey ,once I had to jump off about a 15-20 ft cliff onto a talus slope to avoid backtracking for miles with climbing,minor ankle sprain.


----------



## SomeYeahoo (Jul 27, 2020)

It can certainly be done. I wouldn't want to. It would be a bigger adventure than the rapids. You would need to get all the way out of the canyon and go overland and then get back into the canyon somewhere (that would be the hard part). What's the point of even going on the trip? Sounds like a pretty miserable time for all. But doable? Yea, I'm sure it can be done.


----------



## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

RCarl said:


> It sounds like the consensus is that it _may _possible to hike around all of the rapids, but that even attempting it with a seven year old would be a really, really bad idea.


Yessir, in a nutshell, it's rough hiking, far from the river, easily a full day's hike and meeting up at the end would be seriously problematic.


----------



## caverdan (Aug 27, 2004)

This new format of the Buzz is a little hard to get use to. Looks like Some Yahoo dug up a thread from 10 years ago.  I do agree with your point of why even go if you're planning to walk the Rapids.


----------



## SherpaDave (Dec 28, 2017)

Maybe the post could now be: “I’m 17 and considering doing Westwater with my father. The only catch would be that I’d kick him out of the boat when we get to the rapids as payback. Am I being too mean?”


----------



## mikesee (Aug 4, 2012)

If I had a nickel for every time someone overloading a shitbarge of a raft on a concrete ramp told me something couldn't be done...

...I'd be able to buy them a bag of ice to keep their steaks cool another day. 

As a very general rule, rafters don't know diddly about what happens beyond peeing distance from the river. Exceptions to this rule are extremely rare, but do exist -- think Tom Martin.

Hiking around Westwater's rapids all in one go takes ~50% longer than running the rapids. So maybe 2 hours?

You hike up Marble Canyon, river left. There are a few legit scrambling spots to get up onto the rim. And then it's an easy stroll along the rim for maybe an hour. Descend down the talus ramp to the tail waves of Last Chance.

My wife -- whom does not enjoy (relatively) high-volume whitewater -- wanted to see the canyon but not be gripped while doing it. So we did it as an overnighter, camping at Little D, loading most of her kit into my boat the next AM, then floating down to Marble Canyon and packing up her boat there. Never having done it there was some uncertainty about where exactly to leave the canyon floor and head for the rim, so we walked up aways together until identifying a spot. It's all steep, and very loose. But it never approached a level of needing or wanting protection -- there was always a good handhold on rock or even tree. Once she hit the rim she continued on and I headed back to the boat and downstream. When I got to the tail waves of Last Chance I eddied out, ditched the PFD and skirt, and picked my way up the ramp of rock there. Some good walking, some crappy -- take your time and look far ahead before proceeding through each section. _Right_ as I hit the rim she crested a small rise maybe 100 yards away. Said it had been beautiful, and felt wild, remote, unvisited.

We've since used it -- in reverse -- to get a second lap of the rapids on the same launch. There's a rule against launching twice in one day, but as-yet no rule about hiking to get a second lap of the rapids. After doing it that way I have a hard time considering _just_ floating the river from put in to take out worth it. ~14 miles of flatwater for 3 miles of class III wave trains is a tough sell. But double the miles of whitewater, and include a hike in a place that's untrammeled by the hordes of floating RV's below? Count me in.


----------

