# Anyone add a person to a Yampa trip?



## deadlizard (Mar 10, 2008)

Just got off the phone with the river office. Tried to add 3 people and a boat to our May 29th launch. She said once the multi-day river trip confirmation form was sent in with payment, no one can be added to your permit. She would not make any changes. I countered with it doesn't actually say you can't add anyone. In fact, it's implied that changes are possible as long as done 2 days prior to launch.

Instead of simply stating you cannot add after submitting the multi-day form, the NPS seems to tap-dance around the subject. 

Is this how it's always been done? Anyone successfullly added a person to a Yampa trip?

Gene


Here are the 3 passenger list notes from both the river trip confirmation form and the 2014 Information and Regulation form:

"Passenger Lists
An accurate passenger list must be on file in the River Office prior to launch. Additions or substitutions to the passenger list will not be allowed at the launch site."

"Any changes to the passenger list must be submitted to the River Office prior to launching. Changes, if necessary, may be faxed to the River Office at (970) 374-3050. An accurate passenger list must be submitted at least two business days prior to your arrival at the launch site."

"This notice serves as confirmation of your multi-day river trip. This is NOT your permit. Your permit will not be issued until all the information requested in this notice, as well as Form 10-114 Special Use Permit application, and all fees have been received in the River Office. All paperwork and payment must be received at least one month prior to your launch date or your trip will be cancelled. Fees may be paid with a personal check, cashier’s check, or money order payable to “National Park Service” and mailed to the River Office; or by MasterCard, Visa, Discover, and American Express by calling the River Office. Boating permit fees are separate from and in addition to entrance fees or camping fees for Lodore, Deerlodge or Split Mountain campgrounds. If necessary, revisions to your passenger list can be made after submission of form, but this is not an opportunity to add people to your list. Questions about the river program at Dinosaur National Monument should be directed to the River Office only."


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## David L (Feb 13, 2004)

I had the same experience. You can't add to the number of people first submitted. I don't know how long this has been the policy.

I do think that on the front page of your confirmation, somewhere in the middle, it does say that once you submit your passenger list, you can't add to that number of people. (Something like that; I'll check mine when I'm home later).

You can change the people who take that number of spots, but not increase the number of spots you began with.


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## kazak4x4 (May 25, 2009)

Since when is that a policy? Last year I was able to change/swap/add people up to a few days before launch by faxing in the new list. I wonder if the policy changed this year.


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## deadlizard (Mar 10, 2008)

*We're going to try and fax in the change.*



kazak4x4 said:


> Since when is that a policy? Last year I was able to change/swap/add people up to a few days before launch by faxing in the new list. I wonder if the policy changed this year.


Just hoping we caught a river office person on a bad day and not an inflexible policy. After re-reading the documentation today for the 10th time, I understand their interpretation of the wording, but we did not read it that way initially. Two of the three places referring to the passenger list implied you could add if done earlier than 2 days before launching.

kazak4x4 - you added via the fax, or did you substitute someone?


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## kazak4x4 (May 25, 2009)

I substituted and added one extra person. Since you are paying for the permit (not like deso or ww per seat permit). The permit is assumed for 25 people. The ranger needs to know the amount of people per group so the camps can be assigned correctly. I think that's why they get mad if something changes.

When I changed mine, I changed the name list, faxed it to them and followed up with a phone call.


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## David L (Feb 13, 2004)

Kelly at the river office told me "If necessary, revisions to your passenger list can be made after submission of form, but this is not an opportunity to add people to your list." means that you can revise the people who take the number of spots you list, but you can't add to the number of spots.

I looked at last year's form. It was on the form last year, too.


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## Schutzie (Feb 5, 2013)

Imagine the cheek!

Buncha river rats letting life intrude and change things around, and now the Government gets it's undies in a knot cause, you know, they have to change their life as well.

I understand there have to be rules, and there's a reason for it, but if a permit is for 25 people, and that's what the river office banks on, how does changing from, say 10 people to 11 people ramp up their stress level?

And; "cause that's the rules" doesn't work well. 

How about an explanation that shows why they got the rule; something like; "Cause you see, when you said 10 people, we did this and that, and now if you add someone that means that and this gets screwed up, and ultimately Flaming Gorge will fail and we'll all be washed away"

Or something like that.


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## Osprey (May 26, 2006)

Sounds like all they are doing is ensuring everyone puts down their 15 real passengers and 10 fake passengers going forward. There will never be a small trip again!


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## Demosthenes (Dec 19, 2008)

Hey, the best way to handle this if they keep giving you the run around is to call constituent services at your senator's office. Let them know what's up and they'll fix it for you.

Make sure to mention how their information is completely misleading and ask if "they could make an exception in this case". Government employees that don't give a shit when a regular citizen calls up tend to respond better to somebody from a senator's office.


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