# Precautions for overweight rafters?



## RoryTheLion (Feb 4, 2013)

My friend and I are doing a school project in which we're going to raft from Morgantown to Pittsburgh. I don't think there are really much of rapids on the way, though I may be mistaken about that. I've gone out on boats before, but I've never rafted. I have a few months to prepare.

My question is this: I weight roughly 300 pounds, and while I'm sure I'll be fine (I hike often, am very strong and toned, and have a lot of stamina), I'm worried about weight distribution on the raft. I don't want to sit in the wrong place and throw off the raft (12 foot) if we do have any issues. My friend is only about 120 pounds, and our combined gear is going to be about 60 pounds.

Do I need to worry about weight distribution or where I need to be sitting? Also, does anybody know about rapids on the Monongahela?

Thanks so much for your advice.


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## yak1 (Jan 28, 2006)

I have no idea about rapids on the Monogahela but they may have some low head dams. Those will kill you dead. Do some more research on dams along the river over your route. As far as the weight goes it depends on what type and size raft you are going to be in. Do not use a walmart special. Get some good PFD's and wear them the whole time you're on the river. Have fun, be safe, and explore.


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## Learch (Jul 12, 2010)

*rafts*

It's got a lot to do with the craft you run. If you are running a cheaper raft like something from Wal-mart then you will probably have one person in the front and one in the back. I used to weigh as much as 340 lbs, so I have some real experience in this area. You will want to be the guy in the back, a front heavy boat is no fun. 
If you are running a whitewater style raft, you won't notice much of a difference if you sit side by side. If you do, have your friend sit towards the front and load your gear towards front as well. I typically paddle rafts with my Dad, he is around 200 and I'm at 280 now. I have a little stronger paddle stroke, so that helps tote my extra tonnage. We sit directly across from each other in a 12'8" Riken or a 14' Sotar.


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## jennifer (Oct 14, 2003)

I'm 110 and my boyfriend is about 300 lbs. As far as weight distribution, I can tell you slightly more weight in the front is better than the back. But really it is ideal for you to sit more in the middle so boat is not too stern or bow heavy. Do not sit on the side, or the boat will tilt and not track right - be more centered in the middle if you can. Once you are both seated, place the gear where it will balance the boat, and bring more water than you think you'll need. Good for hydration AND weight distribution.


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## mwunder424 (Oct 1, 2009)

*the Mon... really?*

well.. I work in Morgantown.. .and out of all of our beautiful rivers here, it is suprising to hear anyone actually being interested in floating on the disgusting sewer overflow that is is the Mon... BUT...

Regardless of your motivations... there are no low head dams or real rapids on this stretch, but there are both commercial and recreational vessels that require registration for their use on this waterway... and then ofcourse u have the lock system...

So, if you have not already researched the 9 dam/lock passes on the stretch from Fairmont to Pittsbrugh... and the corresponding restrictions, laws, permits and fees... it might be in your best interest to do so....

As far as weight disto.... I have R2ed in my Aire Super Puma with a 300-325# fellow a few times... it isnt the worlds greatest arrangement... but it is manageable... particuarly on flat water, like the Mon... ( except for those lock outflows/eddies swirls - be careful there)


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## ootek34 (Mar 27, 2007)

As a former river guide (whatever that's worth), I"d agree that a front or side heavy boat can be unruly and harder to steer. That said I've had a few big guys and gals fall in the drink...now the work begins. It can be very hard to get em back in the boat. That I always felt was the hardest part of the deal, especially if there is a feature approaching. Keep your PFD properly adjusted and buckled, or you may be wearing it around your head as they pull you in.


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## huck_finn (Oct 20, 2010)

There are a lot of variables if there is whitewater and you are running oars instead of paddles weight up front. If you are paddling then you will be able to move around and figure it out on the water. Like said before make sure you know about the dam sitch, and wear your pfds if you spend decent money on one it will be comfy and a good investment when you devote your life to being river trash. Welcome to the gang


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## OregonRafter (Jan 30, 2013)

To add to what has been said here. If this longer trip is going to be your first trip out with your gear, before you head out on a multiday trip perhaps try it out on a day trip first. Even if it's just for an hour or so. Rig it how you think it will work best, then move things around. You didn't mention if you will be paddling or rowing with a frame. If your just paddling with 2 it works pretty well to sit on the sides, just behind the front thwart. Then put the Heavy gear in the middle. You can throw light stuff in the very back if you need the room. If you are using a frame, maybe have the cooler up front as a seat for the lighter person. But on mostly flat water you can get away with some unequal distribution. With only 60lb of gear 2 people are going to be the biggest ballast in the boat, and really easy to adjust as you move your positions around the boat. 

But try I out on a short trip before you go. Have fun.


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## 2kanzam (Aug 1, 2012)

I have to ask...what sort of school project is this? I went to WVU and I thought I had some cool classes?

There is approximately 100 miles between morgantown proper until the Mon meets the Ohio River in Pittsburgh...all flatwater (no rapids whatsoever) with 6 or so locks and dams. THAT WILL BE ALOT OF PADDLING/ROWING IN A RAFT! In a kayak or even canoe it would be doable but still a crazy distance on such slow water.

Are you staying on the water? The Mon is very developed and pretty much all of the shore is private-so camping will be an issue unless very well thought out.

Oh and watch out for commercial barges, especially if you aren't profecient at paddling, they can and will run right over you.

As mwunder alluded to, we here in WV have hundreds of good safe floats to choose from that would pretty much all provide better scenery, fishing, water quality and possible camping options...but again I don't know what the point of the project is. 

Lemme know if you would like other suggestions.


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## RoryTheLion (Feb 4, 2013)

2kanzam said:


> I have to ask...what sort of school project is this? I went to WVU and I thought I had some cool classes?
> 
> There is approximately 100 miles between morgantown proper until the Mon meets the Ohio River in Pittsburgh...all flatwater (no rapids whatsoever) with 6 or so locks and dams. THAT WILL BE ALOT OF PADDLING/ROWING IN A RAFT! In a kayak or even canoe it would be doable but still a crazy distance on such slow water.
> 
> ...


Wow, all of you guys are so helpful! Thank you all so much!

I go to a small college in Pittsburgh and they let you design your own courses if you're a responsible student. I really just love picking projects I really love and then "applying" some sort of learning opportunity to them (like when I did a documentary, or a photo exhibit). The point of the project is to chart a course and then rely on river maps and geographical area maps to safely and efficiently navigate 100 miles of river. I chose the Mon because it seemed like a low-risk river that was easy for me to get to (I need to bus down to wherever we're starting, and it's very easy to get to Morgantown.)

I'll be paddling, so now I'm a bit worried about my weight throwing off the side weight. I suppose I could put the gear next to me, but then we'd be very back-heavy and my friend would be in front with no weight. What do you guys think about this?


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## carvedog (May 11, 2005)

RoryTheLion said:


> I suppose I could put the gear next to me, but then we'd be very back-heavy and my friend would be in front with no weight. What do you guys think about this?


You missed the part where you need to be balanced. Not further the imbalance. 

What kind of raft are you running?

And put as much weight next to your buddy as feasible.


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## RoryTheLion (Feb 4, 2013)

carvedog said:


> You missed the part where you need to be balanced. Not further the imbalance.
> 
> What kind of raft are you running?
> 
> And put as much weight next to your buddy as feasible.


Yeah, I don't know what should be done about paddling if I'm in the back-center. I need to be on the side to paddle effectively, I suppose, so if I put the gear next to me, the back is balanced but then we're back heavy; if I put it up by my friend, we're side-heavy.

It's a 12 foot recreational raft.


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## carvedog (May 11, 2005)

RoryTheLion said:


> Yeah, I don't know what should be done about paddling if I'm in the back-center. I need to be on the side to paddle effectively, I suppose, so if I put the gear next to me, the back is balanced but then we're back heavy; if I put it up by my friend, we're side-heavy.
> 
> It's a 12 foot recreational raft.


Bring more beer and put it up by him. Hard to believe you would only have 60 lbs of gear...but maybe. I have been a rafter for a while and bring too much shit. If it is only 12 feet and not so very wide ( most aren't) you can adjust your seated position to closer to the centerline of the boat, unless you have really short arms, and then counterweight as much as possible to get some weight near him. 

If you are renting this raft, you really need to do a full day shakedown cruise with gear before you set out on a 100 mile trip. Or at least load it and paddle 8 or 10 miles on some stretch of river. 

Things to think about. 
Plenty of water. 
First Aid including moleskin or nuskin.
Emergency food. If you are resupplying regularly or daily you still need some rations to carry you through for a day or several. If you are not resupplying then you will need to carry it with and your weight will go up. 

Extra life jacket. 
Throw bag and practice it's use. 

Good luck.


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## OregonRafter (Jan 30, 2013)

RoryTheLion said:


> Yeah, I don't know what should be done about paddling if I'm in the back-center. I need to be on the side to paddle effectively, I suppose, so if I put the gear next to me, the back is balanced but then we're back heavy; if I put it up by my friend, we're side-heavy.
> 
> It's a 12 foot recreational raft.


I too am now curious what type of raft you will use. What is the brand and model?

You make the raft sound narrow. Is it a 12 ft raft like this...








If so that is fine if you are taking it out on a lake. NOT a 100 mi river trip. 

If it is a raft designed like this... 








Then it should work fine. This type is designed for running rivers. If you don't have the second kind of raft you should try to borrow or rent one like it to do the trip.

I apologize if I am jumping to conclusions but you mentioned that this will be your first river trip. 100 miles is a sizable undertaking and you need to make sure you have the right gear to pull it off safely.


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## RoryTheLion (Feb 4, 2013)

OregonRafter said:


> I too am now curious what type of raft you will use. What is the brand and model?
> 
> You make the raft sound narrow. Is it a 12 ft raft like this...
> 
> ...


First, to Carvedog--THANKS!!! I didn't think to get a throw bag! I'll also get an extra life jacket.

To Oregon: These are the three boats I was considering. I do think that size is really important; I used to love boating, so after I get this and the project is over, I'm probably going to go rafting all over with my friends. I'd be nice if it would fit more than me + one tiny person.

Anyway, do you think any of these might work? If not, do you have any suggestions in this price range? I really want to spend 80 - 130, but I'd spend more if it was really worth it. I was leaning towards the Seahawk.

Amazon.com: Stansport Kenai II, 6 Man River Boat - 422: Sports & Outdoors

Amazon.com: 68378 Mariner 3 Boat Set: Sports & Outdoors

Amazon.com: Intex Seahawk II Boat Set: Sports & Outdoors

http://www.amazon.com/Intex-Excursion-5-Boat-Set/dp/B00177J4UC/ref=pd_sbs_op_1 (This is the one I wanted most since it seemed the most spacious)


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## 2kanzam (Aug 1, 2012)

RoryTheLion said:


> First, to Carvedog--THANKS!!! I didn't think to get a throw bag! I'll also get an extra life jacket.
> 
> To Oregon: These are the three boats I was considering. I do think that size is really important; I used to love boating, so after I get this and the project is over, I'm probably going to go rafting all over with my friends. I'd be nice if it would fit more than me + one tiny person.
> 
> ...


 
OK, I cannot get the intex Mariner 3 link to open....I have also not heard of that model

What I can tell you is that I bought a brand new in the box Intex mariner *4* for $100 at a garage sale. It is a decent little boat for the money. It is also higher quality than any others you had linked (the rest are pool toys). I use mine with a trolling motor to crappie fish.

You will not want to paddle ANY OF THESE for 100 miles...definitely not row....even with a trolling motor your top speed is less than 4mph and at that speed the battery won't last long.

The intex 4 is not very roomy (4 man means 2 man at best). Even tho it is the best quality of the lot...I would not trust it on this kind of adventure. I am constantly making repairs to it. You will not want to do any whitewater at all in these.

Sorry to tell you but I think you need to look into other boats.


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## GC Guide (Apr 10, 2009)

$80 to $130 will not get you a suitable raft for this type of adventure. Just my two cents. I would not do that trip in anything less than what you will find here Boats & Inflatables > Rafts > NRS Otter Livery Rafts at NRSweb.com There are other brands but this is the level of boat that I think you need. I am thinking you may need to buck up! Best of luck on your adventure!


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## Daggerdave (Sep 21, 2010)

this is almost comical.  i really hope this guy is sincere though. :grin:

assuming so: please do not take a craft such as is in those links to do a trip like this. we will certainly never hear from you again or hear how you made it 3 miles and the thing sunk. you can rent rafts in ohio pyle, albright etc. 
and i have heard of the draft that the barges create. they are deadly. beware.


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## richp (Feb 27, 2005)

Hi Rory,

Long time rafter here, who grew up in the Morgantown area. Used to bike down to the river as a kid to swim and fish. Here are a few thoughts.

1. Check out the commercial raft companies on the Yough or other rivers in that area and rent a decent raft. What you've linked to are not very durable for an extended trip -- even on flatwater. The last thing you need is to slice up your boat dragging it up on shore over an un-noticed bottle shard or piece of sharp mine slag. Trust me and the others here who are skeptical about your line of thinking on boat choice.

2. Google Earth your trip, and you'll see a lot that will help you in your planning. Particularly see how developed the river is as you near Pittsburgh. That comes into play when you think about how you'll find legal places to camp -- as already has been mentioned. 

3. By every means possible stay out of the way of the barge traffic. I'll repeat what was said earlier -- you'll get run over simply because it's a relatively narrow river and they have limited maneuverability. You're a bug on the water to them.

4. Going through locks is no big deal -- small boats do it all the time. But there may be times when you'll have to wait around for the big rigs to go, because you won't be allowed to lock through with them.

5. I personally wouldn't drink water -- even if filtered and or/or otherwise purified -- from the Mon. It's cleaner than when I was a kid, but there still is a lot of nasty stuff in it. Think about how much you'll need to bring and how you can replenish from reliable shore sources. Plus, extra water can ballast your boat and help with the balance problem.

6. At least do a trial loading/paddle around the pond kind of preparatory thing. Far easier to figure things out in advance, than to have to do it when you're already on the river. And that's the time to figure out your balance problems, which will be highly dependent on the actual gear you bring and the paddling position your particular raft will require.

7. Don't let our comments diminsh your enthusiasm for the trip. Just consider them in the spirit they're being given. We all want you to have a good trip, but a safe and enjoyable one. When you're done, how about a full report?

Hope this helps.

Rich Phillips


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## OregonRafter (Jan 30, 2013)

I personally wouldn't run any of those rafts down a river unless maybe it was a flat water town run somewhere where you're surrounded by tubers. The reason why is because those inexpensive rafts come cheap because they are very thin. They won't hold up on a river trip of gear, rocks, sticks, etc. Imagine tearing a 1' gash in that 30 miles into your trip!

I love your sense of adventure. I know as a college student budgets are tight. Do you have any buddies or family members that own a whitewater boat? If I were you I would see if you could borrow something suitable for your trip. Or better yet, invite them on your trip so you can use them and their gear. I too started off on a shoestring budget so I know what your looking at. If you're really getting into it for the long haul borrow at first or rent while saving up. 

I agree with GCB. A non bailing raft is a great, less expensive way to get into rafting. I rowed a very old non-bailer for years, and took it on some great river trips. Your passenger just has to be faster at bailing the water out then the river is putting it in!  
If you are patient and look around you can find an old entry level boat for $500-1000. 

The 3 things you absolutely don't want to skimp on are a raft and life jackets that are designed and rated for whitewater and river use, and decent paddles. That's your cheapest formula for safely getting on the river.

But if you go with the wrong gear you or your crew can get stranded, hurt, or worse. The majority of river fatalities are from people with the wrong kind of boats/lifejactets, or not wearing them. If you have anyone you know who does river trips ask for their advice on picking out gear.


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## RoryTheLion (Feb 4, 2013)

OregonRafter said:


> I personally wouldn't run any of those rafts down a river unless maybe it was a flat water town run somewhere where you're surrounded by tubers. The reason why is because those inexpensive rafts come cheap because they are very thin. They won't hold up on a river trip of gear, rocks, sticks, etc. Imagine tearing a 1' gash in that 30 miles into your trip!
> 
> I love your sense of adventure. I know as a college student budgets are tight. Do you have any buddies or family members that own a whitewater boat? If I were you I would see if you could borrow something suitable for your trip. Or better yet, invite them on your trip so you can use them and their gear. I too started off on a shoestring budget so I know what your looking at. If you're really getting into it for the long haul borrow at first or rent while saving up.
> 
> ...


Hey, guys!

Thanks so much. I totally hear you about the dangers of thin boats. What about this one? Amazon.com: Intex 4 Person Mariner Inflatable Boat Set: Sports & Outdoors

It's 200; it's the Intex Mariner 4. Still kind of cheap, but judging from reviews, it seems the sturdiest of the low-cost rafts. I can't really bump my budget up anymore; broke college kid here! But I can try to work some extra shifts to make things a little safer.

As for the trip--it'll be a mostly floating trip with minimal paddling (just to clear barges and such) on a river with no real rapids. I think there might be a mile or so of Class I. Do you think the Intex Mariner 4 will do it?


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## OregonRafter (Jan 30, 2013)

From the website's own description..."Ideal for a relaxed, low key day on the lake or easy river". That means lakes and tubing runs. 

That raft is not made to be dependable on real river trips, even if only flat water and class I. Reread the earlier posts for raft recommendations. $200 isn't worn getting stranded or having an accident on the river. Plus those paddles/oars will snap and break when you push against moving water of an real force. 

Some of the qualities that make real river raft are durability, sturdiness so they hold their structure when going in or over river features without folding in half, and multiple chambers (3-4 just in the tubes), and high quality valves so one leak or hole doesn't sink all your gear and provisions. The trip you are describing even though sounding like easy water is really ambitious. Believe me, even without significat rapids its more mbitious then I bet many really experienced rafter have done. Do it right or I wouldn't do it. 

Also you will be surprised at how much paddling you will end up doing on easy water. Even just to stay in the main current, avoid other large craft (never personally had to a avoid barges), or just to make progress due to flat water or a headwind.

Safety alone you should get the right tool for the job. But You also mentioned wanting to get into rafting and running many rivers in the future. Trust me. I you take any of the rafts you are describing down the river you are going to be disappointed and immediately want something better. You'll end up having to sell your used, inexpensive boat for way less then you paid for it in order to upgrade. Don't let a short term savings cost you in the long run.


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## lmyers (Jun 10, 2008)

I have read the whole thread through, and understand you want to get out on a really easy, but very long float. I agree with everyone else that the boats you are looking at are not appropriate. You might be able to pull off some short overnight runs in a cheap rig like that, but on a 100 mile stretch any kind of mishap that hurts the boat will leave you stranded. You can't repair boats like that, it just doesn't work. You most certainly can do the trip your looking at, and with your budget, but look at renting a real raft or go on Craigslist or Ebay and find some old rig with a bunch of patches from a reputable company. You will be better off. Everyone on this thread has given you good, honest advice.


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## Avatard (Apr 29, 2011)

Why not just canoe it?


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## RoryTheLion (Feb 4, 2013)

Avatard said:


> Why not just canoe it?


I think I'm probably too big for a canoe. Also, I don't know if I could sit in one position for 12 hours at a time. More room on a raft.


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## BrianK (Feb 3, 2005)

Those are some quality rafts you are looking at. 

Seriously...rent a raft from a rafting company for around the same price, find a different (read: better) river, do some research about it, and you will have a much better experience. Someone above said the rafts you are looking at are pool toys - they were correct. Those rafts are the wrong tool for the job.


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## carvedog (May 11, 2005)

A pair of sea kayaks might be fun. Would want to be able to roll though.

Don't forget with any raft you will need to carry your pump and repair kit too. Most of the plastic rafts only have two chambers so if you did pop one while in the river it may be all you could handle to even get the raft to shore. Look into renting.


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## colorado_steve (May 1, 2011)

rory, i like where your head's at! but that raft is gonna sink on your 100 mile river trip and your gonna be stranded.

safety is very important on the river. these boats are just not safe for what you have planned.

one thing to think about with the lower end "rafts" is that you have no rowing frame to hang gear and row from. with a boat like that all the gear is placed on the floor/thwarts. i dont think the floor will hold up and i think you'll run into problems with the "oar towers" on the low end inflatables

find a commercial rafting company. buy one of their old standard floor rafts (nrs,avon,hyside,etc..) for $500-$700. start watching the buzz and pick up as much good info as you can. head out on your trip. HAVE A BLAST!


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## FrankC (Jul 8, 2008)

I think your all being Manteo-ed. This guy can't be serious.


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## Daggerdave (Sep 21, 2010)

Frank I called it first!


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## colorado_steve (May 1, 2011)

i wonder what advice grif would dish out 

my vote.. he's legit


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## 2kanzam (Aug 1, 2012)

RoryTheLion said:


> Hey, guys!
> 
> Thanks so much. I totally hear you about the dangers of thin boats. What about this one? Amazon.com: Intex 4 Person Mariner Inflatable Boat Set: Sports & Outdoors
> 
> ...


 
There is no class 1 on the Mon anywhere even up into the West Fork/Tygart tribs. It is as near to flatwater as a river gets (barges are in it!). Since there is no current you will be paddling the entire time if not to at least go forward but keep from getting blown upstream by the wind. In any of these rafts you will be really lucky to paddle an average of 2mph....walking speed...to pittsburgh.

That (Mariner 4) was the one I said I bought new at a garage sale on a whim...and you are right it is the best you can buy in that price range-but it is still a pretty crappy lil boat just less crappy than the other ones in the price range. 

I crappie fish in slow water in it, but it tears easily, pieces brake, baffles bust, the the sewn floor will stretch and let in water (although the slatted floor is a nice feature-actually the only thing that makes the boat worth anything) there is no rowing it straight, no room for anysort of overnight gear...I use a trolling motor

What I am saying is -I own the boat I use it lightly and I am telling you that you will not complete 100 miles in it without issues, possibly severe ones.


is being "Teo-d" a word now?


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## BilloutWest (Jan 25, 2013)

Inner tubes.

You'll have to patch them but that'll be good practice for when on the river.
Carry a couple spares good to go then repairs are quicker.

Read this book first:
The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn - Mark Twain - Google Books


> It's lovely to live on a raft. We had the sky up there, all speckled with stars, and we used to lay on our backs and look up at them'


Home Made Rafting Association
Homemade Raft Plans

Think shipping pallets as a wood source
How to Build a Raft Using Shipping Pallets | eHow.com

just a thought for other than oar options for future trips
http://www.bigwinds.com/wind


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## rpludwig (Feb 28, 2011)

*Can't help myself*

Ok, 5 days on the river can be quite a short time in retrospect if you maintain a high, very high blood alcohol. Yes a good PFD is necessary, but a dozen blow up dolls will always get you out of the flat water pinch, You can still hold on to them with both hands free, if you know what I mean. and if need be will help you look a bit crazy when the cops show up on your trespass while sleeping in someone's boat house
Point is, you got to be safe and none of your options will help with success.


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## pinemnky13 (Jun 4, 2007)

Lay off the twinkies if your gonna paddle a cheapo raft there buddy


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## BilloutWest (Jan 25, 2013)

For mobility, put those inner tubes on end and go _catatubing_.

I guess that's not in the spell checker here.

But it should work for mobility.
Plus they make decent futons partially deflated.
(Valve stem down)


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## BoscoBoater (Jul 11, 2006)

*Here's how you do it....*

These folks did a very similar type trip on the Delaware River. Maybe you can pick up some tips from them.....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UpTKAz_Bo9k


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNbUiSbpGGg



They'll even sell you some plans.....Though it really does look pretty simple to make.

Homemade Raft Plans


Good luck on you trip, and have fun!


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## carvedog (May 11, 2005)

BoscoBoater said:


> These folks did a very similar type trip on the Delaware River. Maybe you can pick up some tips from them.....


Nice find Bosco. I just peeked at the vids. Need to watch the whole thing, but that looks awesome.


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## pinemnky13 (Jun 4, 2007)

Thasnks for the videos bosco


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## Andy H. (Oct 13, 2003)

BoscoBoater said:


> These folks did a very similar type trip on the Delaware River. Maybe you can pick up some tips from them.....


That looks like really fun way to do it. It's always great to see what the folks who don't know "how you're supposed to do it" can show to those of us with all the experience and fancy gear.

Have fun!

-AH


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## FrankC (Jul 8, 2008)

Ok that video just made me homesick. I'm from Pa and NJ and probably floated the Delaware a few hundred times.


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## RoryTheLion (Feb 4, 2013)

Hey, to the people who think I'm not serious, I am. (Also, I'm not a guy.) I'm just a broke college kid on a budget.

I'm going to look into getting a different boat (hopefully not an inflatable raft), but it's tough. Boats are just as expensive as cars! But if I can't find one by then, I want to try to get the Mariner 4 and then do my best to keep it safe. Kind of worried, though.


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## Kendi (May 15, 2009)

Hey Rory- from one gal to another- rowing a loaded boat in flatwater is a lot of work. Listen to these guys- they know what the hell they are talking about (most of the time anyway  )

Broke doesn't equal dumb. Don't go the kmart coffin route if you really want to do this trip. Beg, borrow or rent a decent boat for what you would have spent on the pool toy. You'll have less to worry about and more of a chance of really making this trip happen.

If there's anything that I can give you advice on- it's listen to your gut. If you're fighting every single step of the way to make the trip happen- then it wasn't meant to be. Quit fighting. If things work out- then go and have a great time. And put up some pics too!


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## FrankC (Jul 8, 2008)

As people pointed out here, the Mon is lousy and dangerous for boating due to the Lock and Dam system. I would pick up a copy of "Keystone Canoeing" by Gertler and then find some other river to boat on. There is plenty of good stuff in PA. Forget about the cheap Kmart raft and pick up a used Rec or Touring kayak. You could probably find something very cheap on Craigslist.


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## Avatard (Apr 29, 2011)

Kendi said:


> Hey Rory- from one gal to another- rowing a loaded boat in flatwater is a lot of work. Listen to these guys- they know what the hell they are talking about (most of the time anyway  )
> 
> Broke doesn't equal dumb. Don't go the kmart coffin route if you really want to do this trip. Beg, borrow or rent a decent boat for what you would have spent on the pool toy. You'll have less to worry about and more of a chance of really making this trip happen.
> 
> If there's anything that I can give you advice on- it's listen to your gut. If you're fighting every single step of the way to make the trip happen- then it wasn't meant to be. Quit fighting. If things work out- then go and have a great time. And put up some pics too!


most colleges around here have "outdoors programs" where you can rent the gear for cheap. I'd look into that ...


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## BilloutWest (Jan 25, 2013)

*Great advice, do what he said*



Avatard said:


> most colleges around here have "outdoors programs" where you can rent the gear for cheap. I'd look into that ...


Don't know about the East Coast but in the West this is a great resource and you don't have to even be going to school there.

Join in with their trips and you'll find not just equipment but also knowledge and ethics.


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## Avatard (Apr 29, 2011)

So here's a way to make a statement


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## mwunder424 (Oct 1, 2009)

Rory,

If it helps u out... u can borrow my Aire Super Puma... but I admit that i have serious reservations about the Mon ( as I have previously stated ).

I was a broke college kid too once... now im just a broke grad student...

I work in Morgantown, so it should be easy enough to arrange... perhaps we can discuss some alternative local float trips for you as well....

PM me ur # and we can go from there if you are interested.


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