# liquid logic gus ? /



## caliclimber (Jan 15, 2009)

I have bought a nice gus hoping to learn in this boat. I have paddled it once. I also am working on this boat in the pool. I think i should get a boat like a wave sport diesel or an equivalent. Play/riverrunner. A buddy of mine who is teaching me agrees that a planing hull as opposed to the displacement might help speed the learning process. I know i haven't really given the gus much of a chance, but being in the river right now with 32 degree water a little more stability might help. Although the gus might help with brace practice. I just want a nice boat to learn in/ progress faster and next year get a creek boat. Any opinions on this or ideas would be great. Thanks Shawn


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## brenda (Aug 10, 2008)

My first boat was a Liquid Logic Trigger (I think the smaller version of your boat). I think it is a great boat to learn in. The following year I went to a Jackson 2Fun and now also own a Jackson Star. I wish I would have kept Trigger for bigger volume rivers. It was a great little boat to learn in. How much do you weigh...perhaps the boat feels to big for you?


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## caliclimber (Jan 15, 2009)

I weigh 185 pounds. The boat feels big but being a creek boat its real tippy. And perhaps a little tall


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## El Flaco (Nov 5, 2003)

Question: How does your roll feel? Fairly solid? Does being upside down freak you out? Are you the type that tries twice to roll and pulls, or are you stubborn and try 6-7 times? I'm asking that because a tippy boat is not necessarily a bad thing if you're hitting most of your rolls- having lots of combat rolls in your first year will make you more mentally strong. Conversely, a boat with primary stability (planing hull) will feel solid on Class II riffles, but will be harder to roll in soupy, turbulent water as you move up the difficulty progression. 

My opinion - the Gus isn't going to hurt your development, unless you're a more tentative boater (and there's nothing wrong with that, either). If you're planning on taking your time & absolutely limiting the number of flips / rolls in your first year, it might be worth it to swap for a more 'stable' boat. Remember - any boater that started paddling more than 10 years ago learned on a displacement hull, so it's not impossible. 

If you're more aggressive in the way you tackle other new sports, you might want to stick it out with the Gus - I think it'll make you a more solid paddler when you buy your next boat; likely a  PLANING hull. By then you'll pick the right boat after knowing how it feels it feels in moving water. And you're not investing in a whole new boat based on someone else's style and preferences. Plus you've put off a major boat purchase for another year, which may or may not matter. I'd at least stick it out until April or May, try the Gus out on moving water, and go with a different boat at that point. There will be lots of other boats to choose from in the spring. 


Good luck!


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## caliclimber (Jan 15, 2009)

El flaco i appreciate all the good info. I am very stubborn. Im trying to kayak coming from having surfed since i was a kid. I am used to being held under water. I think from what you wrote i dont think i will trade the gus. Do you think if got a different planing hull boat to compliment the gus will it help accelerate learning or no. I


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## El Flaco (Nov 5, 2003)

caliclimber said:


> El flaco i appreciate all the good info. I am very stubborn. Im trying to kayak coming from having surfed since i was a kid. I am used to being held under water. I think from what you wrote i dont think i will trade the gus. Do you think if got a different planing hull boat to compliment the gus will it help accelerate learning or no. I


Hmm- I'd guess that you're probably set for this year, boat-wise. After the runoff, you can always jump into a buddy's playboat and / or demo a bunch of different designs to see how an aggressive boat will treat you. Not sure I would plan on spending the money this year, unless that's not an issue. Regardless, spending time in Glenwood in a playboat will make you a stronger boater - just don't fall into the trap that many new boaters get into; which is feeling strong in the pool, but getting a fear-of-god swim once you hit that cold snowmelt. It's a surprisingly easy mistake to make. 

As a surfer, you're already well ahead of the curve - you can pick up another boat to challenge you at any time of the year, and since you're on the West Slope you'll have access to quite a long season with Glenwood, Gunny Gorge and Westwater nearby. 

good times....

*Caveat: I haven't owned a GUS, BTW. But I've owned lots of displacement boats.


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## xkayaker13 (Sep 30, 2006)

Hey,
I have been paddling for almost ten years and have paddled all sorts of boats from planning hull to displacement hull from old to new. Almost all paddlers start in planning hull boats these days, but that does not mean it is impossible to learn in a displacement. Some things that might be a little bit harder with the gus, is learning how to properly turn it, catch eddy's, doing ferry's, boofing, and general edge control. That being said, if you can learn to paddle it then you can use some of it's features to do some technically difficult and advanced maneuvers in much harder rapids. From my experience most beginners and intermediate boaters do not generally do too well in this boat because of the above listed reasons. It simply takes much more planning and execution to use these features to your advantage and run rapids successfully. With this being said, I personally love the boat and the advanced style that goes with it and would happily take the boat off your hands if you are looking to sell it. Hope this helps and feel free to contact me if you do decide that it is not for you.

Thanks,
-Christian
203-383-9368
christian.cook at colorado.edu


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## Leland (Jan 25, 2004)

I agree with Christian that the Gus is a really hard boat to learn in. Back when there were a lot more of them on the river, we definitely noticed that students showing up to our clinics in Guses generally had more troubles. It is a difficult boat to turn, and the stern rocker can get hung up on the lip of drops really easily if your timing isn't exactly right.

That being said, it's a boat that was well loved by expert paddlers, and that still has a strong demand for used ones. If I was you I would sell it off to someone who has paddled one and loved it, and get yourself something a little friendlier to help your learning curve.

Good luck with your new sport, either way!

Leland


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## lmyers (Jun 10, 2008)

Before you swap your vessel out too many times, go down to your local paddle shop and demo a variety of models. That is the best way to find out what you like and what you are comfortable in. If I were you I would hold on the the Gus, if you continue to boat and improve you will most likely be sorry that you gave it up.

Good luck.


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## El Flaco (Nov 5, 2003)

lmyers said:


> Before you swap your vessel out too many times, go down to your local paddle shop and demo a variety of models.


Oh yeah- that's another pitfall paddlers can get into- buying boat after boat before getting used to each one. I know a guy, who I'll anonymously refer to as "Jay Drury"- he used to go through 3-4 boats every season. 

Not that I've ever done that....


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## 12mr (Feb 2, 2009)

I love my gus, and I've tried quite a few other boats out. Great at big water as well as creeks, but does not automatically boof like a Jefe or other newer creekers seem to want to. 
The gus is very stable and you're the right weight for it. Give it some time.


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## caliclimber (Jan 15, 2009)

I may buy another boat. A river/play. Any suggestions. I am looking at a 4fun or wave sport ez


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## jaydrury (May 21, 2004)

*Actually...*

...you never really know how a boat will perform until you watch it go through Steeps 2 without you. I suggest swimming in that one hole....yeah, that one. Good vantage point.


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## 12mr (Feb 2, 2009)

Wave sport EZ for river/play. Longer playboats make better river runners.


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## lmyers (Jun 10, 2008)

I use a Liquid Logic Vision 56 for down river play, lots of fun at medium or lower flows, can be a little rough for down river fun at high flows (at least for me). One of their comparable new models would be the CR series, also check out the Remix - I think you might like it.


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## caliclimber (Jan 15, 2009)

I appreciate all the help. There are some remixs for sale. Coming from aspen right now since the indy pass is closed. should I go over tennesse pass. I ask because there are some boats for sale there. The kayak shops are closed here in the roaring fork until end of march/may. I want to paddle now. I dont care about water temp. I want to learn on a boat that I can be confident in when run off comes. Thanks Shawn


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## lmyers (Jun 10, 2008)

If you drive over Tennesse Pass and south to Buena Vista, Colorado Kayak Supply (CKS) is open from 12-5 in the winter. Most of their inventory is going to be brand new right now - including demos of all the newest models. Your best bet for getting a good deal on a used boat will be at the boat swap @ Paddlefest in May. That leaves you time to try out a few. If you come on a nice day, I'd be happy to get on the water with you. We have been thinking about doing a lower Brown's run - only 4 miles instead of the upper canyon's 8.


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## El Flaco (Nov 5, 2003)

jaydrury said:


> ...you never really know how a boat will perform until you watch it go through Steeps 2 without you. I suggest swimming in that one hole....yeah, that one. Good vantage point.
> 
> "It boats really easy - it's too shallow to flip"
> 
> -El Flaco describing OBJ


Correction - I was talking about _Bear Creek_ when I said 'too shallow to flip'. How did you flip in there anyway?


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