# Main Salmon: yellowjackets



## restrac2000

Just got off a trip.... Definitely bring yellow jacket traps. Even with ours our crew got stung a few times. Swarms in the hundreds at many camps...issue at all camps and lunch spots we used. Would seriously reconsider going if you have known allergies as they normally get moe aggressive in months to come.

We used a trap by Rescue that was filled with water to activate attractant in plastic bag... We got at least 500 of them.

Phillip


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## HalJ

We are putting in on Sunday.....Thanks for the Heads-Up!


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## cataraftgirl

Yellow jackets are always pesky on the Main Salmon. Never heard of them swarming that bad though. The only time we've been stung was during the 2007 fire trip. The smoke made them super aggressive & crazy. The one thing I've noticed over the years on the MS is that the folks who usually get stung are the ones who freak out & swat at the yellow jackets. Those who are chill and just ignore them don't seem to get stung. However, swarms of hundreds of them is another matter altogether, and hard to ignore. Hope this is just a fluke thing this season. My crew went in late June and had no problems.


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## johnovice

Got off MS Aug.1; 6 folks stung out of 19.
Two stung when yellowjackets were (unbeknownst) exploring inside their Keenes and then they shifted their foot position, unintentionally threatening the yj.
(It was kinda fun watching a yj using its whole body (looked like it was humping the pork!) to carve a piece of meat and carry it away.)


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## cmharris

They were always present but tolerable in early July with the exception of Paine Creek. At Paine the dog was so bothered he pawed at the tent looking some relief and shelter. Agree it's best to not swat at them, if possible. Are traps the only solution for high population areas? I would like a different alternative.


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## 90Duck

Thanks for the warning. Our big group with lots of kids is launching Monday. I got stung over the weekend which already had me thinking about taking some traps...


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## Kathy

Thanks for the post! We launch on the Main on the 26th and I had been wondering about the bees. This year they seemed worse than normal on our Lower Salmon trip (a few weeks ago), so I was trying to formulate a game-plan.

I looked at the brand you used... Rescue. Did you have a new trap for each night? Did you hang more than one per camp? Other than Paine Creek, which camps were the worst? We are a small group, so we can camp pretty much anywhere. Any bee advice is welcome.

P.S. How were the biting flies?


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## hialtitude

Thanks for the heads up! Anybody know if the road construction that was taking place last year below Carey Cr has been finished?


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## rivh2o

*yellowjackets*

just got off the main on sat. the 10th. Yes the yellowjackets were a pain many people in our group got bitten and or stung, had huge problem at lower yellowpine camp. My wife got stung on her finger and it swelled up and look pretty bad turned ugly purple and hard to the touch. When we got back home she had a friend who is a nurse look at it who said that it probably got infected from scratching and itching and the bacteria on ones hand infected the wound,be sure to wash the area stung with soap, clean well apply a anti itching cream like benadryl and keep clean. We found that if we cooked near to the water's edge there seemed to be less insects. No sign of road construction on the way out but it was a weekend still the road was fine no problems.


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## restrac2000

Kathy said:


> Thanks for the post! We launch on the Main on the 26th and I had been wondering about the bees. This year they seemed worse than normal on our Lower Salmon trip (a few weeks ago), so I was trying to formulate a game-plan.
> 
> I looked at the brand you used... Rescue. Did you have a new trap for each night? Did you hang more than one per camp? Other than Paine Creek, which camps were the worst? We are a small group, so we can camp pretty much anywhere. Any bee advice is welcome.
> 
> P.S. How were the biting flies?


Biting flies were not noticeable until last night at Johnson Bar.

We only had one trap and stored it inside 2 gallon zip locks between camps. Seemed to work fine if kept upright. We just added a little extra water each time we set it back up. If possible I would bring 2-3 and use the extras at the worst of camps. Just remember that they are an attractant though, so only use them when needed as they can exacerbate the problem in calm camps (only Upper Devils Tooth was mild for us and we didn't even use the trap for the 10-20 we saw).

Yellowjackets were bad at every camp and we were a small group using lower water beaches. They seemed to be the worst in the middle stretch of the river. That said, they were very active at Corn Creek camps from the beginning. 

Definitely don't swat. It was the first time I have been stung by any, as we never experienced them on my previous trip. Odd sting that seems to come back at random times with pain and itching. Definitely keep them bites clean.

They love meat right now. Bacon, salmon, you name it. They are impressive to watch as they carry away chunks as big as themselves. 

I assume there population sizes are similar issues related to red ants on the Grand. Hida had been poorly used by some groups before us and was horrible. We cleaned up the food trash that we could but the yellow jackets were there to stay. 

Its a practice in Zen for sure as you try to cook and eat with 30-40 yellow jackets swarming around you. Definitely pissed our dog off.

Extremely glad no one got stung by the bald faced hornets on that were common as well. Same family as the yellow jackets but rumored to be extremely painful. At least a single yellow jacket sting is tolerable for those who aren't allergic.

Still a great trip, just took some getting use to.

Phillip


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## restrac2000

Road beyond Carey Creek was in great shape with no construction. Road, starting above Spring Bar, is black top with new white lines. Easy drive.


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## restrac2000

cataraftgirl said:


> The one thing I've noticed over the years on the MS is that the folks who usually get stung are the ones who freak out & swat at the yellow jackets. Those who are chill and just ignore them don't seem to get stung. However, swarms of hundreds of them is another matter altogether, and hard to ignore. Hope this is just a fluke thing this season. My crew went in late June and had no problems.


Everyone was mellow on our trip and 3 of 5 got stung. The one child was awesome as she has a mother who has a hobby of bee tending. The yellow jackets were exceptionally bold and curious as 3 of the 5 stings came to the feet after folks checked shoes diligently. They crawled into the shoes while cooking in the kitchen. 

5 stings wasn't horrible actually. Just shocking to see so many at such small, clean camps. The larger groups seemed to have it worse and were noticeable for frazzled.

It could be related to all the smoke in the canyon from the Papoose Fire. Though it wasn't that bad for most of the trip.


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## king kong kev

We took out 8/3 and also had problems with yellow jackets. The only time they did not bother was in the rain or after dark. We would set up a decoy food table with scraps of meat or fruit away from the main cooking area (worked ok). One night we had a vinegar based appetizer and that also seemed to work as a repellant. We ended up setting out the appetizer on the subsequent evenings. One of our crew thought the large yellow jacket population was due to the relatively mild winter.


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## cataraftgirl

restrac2000 said:


> Everyone was mellow on our trip and 3 of 5 got stung. The one child was awesome as she has a mother who has a hobby of bee tending. The yellow jackets were exceptionally bold and curious as 3 of the 5 stings came to the feet after folks checked shoes diligently. They crawled into the shoes while cooking in the kitchen.
> 
> 5 stings wasn't horrible actually. Just shocking to see so many at such small, clean camps. The larger groups seemed to have it worse and were noticeable for frazzled.
> 
> It could be related to all the smoke in the canyon from the Papoose Fire. Though it wasn't that bad for most of the trip.


The smoke definitely made them aggressive in 2007. Most stings were from them flying up into shirt sleeves & shorts. For sure talk with the kids on the upcoming trips about staying calm and not swatting wildly, as this just seems to make them worse. Also make sure to check soda/beer cans before sipping. They like to get inside those.


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## restrac2000

cataraftgirl;331158 Also make sure to check soda/beer cans before sipping. They like to get inside those.[/QUOTE said:


> We found a simple solution to that....just rotate the tab around over the opening. Solved and never had another problem, though it came about after my wife almost swallowed one.
> 
> Phillip


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## eze420

We had heard about the hornet problems on the Main, then got a TR from a friend last night said their group of 15 had trouble, almost everyone stung, he was personally stung 5 times. They just got off a few days ago.

Then there is this thread today...

So the question for those who are reporting first hand from recent trips: would you launch again now if you knew they were that bad? We are launching in a few weeks: right about when I would expect them to get more aggro.

Understand that some people wouldn't cancel for anything, and I am not one to cancel under almost any circumstances (read: RHT OK in November with snow), but the idea of dealing with angry hornets for a week just does not sound fun. Of course we have to deal with a few of them on most rivers, and they are more aggro in CO in Sept/Oct: however, these reports make it sound quite a bit more intense than usual.


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## restrac2000

I would still go with current situation though the guides and ranger mentioned they normally get worse as the season goes on. Posted original message as opportunity for permit holders to bring traps not to scare anyone away. 

I will say that if there are people who have allergies and already carry a kit, then I would recommend they cancel. Not sure I would want to chance a systemic issue in the backcountry when there is a known problem.

If that is not your case, then I would still go and just plan accordingly. It was still one of the greatest trips I have taken. Bring the traps. Practice being calm around them. Wear shoes in camp. Setup kitchen near water (I agree we had fewer of them in those cases, like Upper Devils Tooth). Consider staying away from most popular camps. Bring meds for stings. Keep a clean and tidy kitchen. 

And to clarify, all the species we saw were in the yellow jacket family (even the Bald Faced Hornet is a yellow jacket). 

Your mileage may vary.

The norovirus may have also found its way to the Main stem. One group we launched with had a GI illness that moved through their entire group during the course of 5 days. Nothing life threatening, just problematic enough to "interfer with their drinking" (direct qoute). They had children though, which are often carriers (from my limited research). We had no problems but were diligent about washing hands before all meals and had a hand wash station setup on the path back from the toilet. They were the only group on our launch date to have problems. That said signs are at Corn Creek to warn folks about the possibility.

On a positive note, I have never had such good luck with fellow boaters as I did this trip. Everyone was extremely pleasant and flexible. Outfitters were thoughtful and fun to interact with. 

All around one of the best rafting trips I have done in the last ten years. First time I had seen Black Canyon and enjoyed seeing how dynamic river systems are once again (arrived at a brand new rapid on the MFS a few years ago and have watched several rapids change in person on Deso). Great camps. Great swimming. Great combination and balance in rapids (some challenge and lots of fun). 

Phillip


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## johnovice

eze420 said:


> So the question for those who are reporting first hand from recent trips: would you launch again now if you knew they were that bad?


Hmmm -- tough question. Personally, I would, but I think it depends on what other trip options you might have; how critical to you is THIS trip THIS time? (And not knowing what it might be like next season makes it tough).

Most of the time (on-river, in-tent) no problem! Big Fun!

I would get frazzeled if I had kitchen duty 3 times a day -- feel bad for the comercial guides!
One meal, when I was especially intolerant for some reason, I took my plate and walked a couple of hundred yards away and had a nice relaxing (but i-social) dinner!


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## Nessy

Took out on 8/4. The yellow jackets were awful. Everyone in our group of 13 got stung at least once and one guy got it on the tongue. 

One of our beaches had a shallow, flat, gravel bar next to the beach. We put a few chairs out in the water that evening and the yellow jackets didn't venture out over the water.

A large screened tent would've been nice for dinner and breakfast. If you plan your lunches to be on the water you'll save yourself some grief.


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## Bruce from Canmore

I'm curious, are the yellow jackets a problem on the Lower Salmon as well?

We don't really seem to have them up here in Alberta, and we're heading down with a bunch of young kids next week.


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## ZGjethro

I have only done the Main Salmon once, back in 2002. I do not recall any yellowjacket problems. Is this related to the fires last summer? 

Relating to another poster, yellowjackets are not bees. They can both sting you, but bees are not in competition with you for your food and are not aggressive, unless they are africanized (which are not near Idaho). As far as I am concerned, bees good, yellowjackets not so much. I am sure they have a place in the grand scheme of things


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## rivers2run

We had to have someone air evacuated due to Yellow jacket sting last year, she was stung on the tongue. We flagged a jet boat then a helicopter picked her up. Luckily we were well supplied with epipens, they only last about 15-20 minutes so make sure the patient is loaded up with benadryl. We also had prednisone and we gave her a good dose of that. Emergency Dr said we did just right. They took a jet boat back up the next day to pick up their boat. It is good if several people have epipen, and if you are allergic have a wilderness protocol that you can share with your group. They sell epi-pen in 2 packs these days. It is great if several people carry them, Like river knives, if you need em, you need em. We also found out it is good to take a cell phone you might not be able to call on the river but it is very helpful at the hospital to make arrangements, for things like car rentals, take it with you in an air evac.


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## whip

Here's my tongue several minutes after 2 injections of epi and 75 mg of Benadryl

Here's the escape


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## erdvm1

Just got off the main

The yellow jackets were very bad in the top half

Kinda mellowed in the third quarter then picked back up

Someone on our group suggested bringing those yellow jacket traps that hang and are yellow.

I would suggest two of those per day.
No need for pest spray since there were no obvious nests.

We got to the point that we were at war with the yellow jackets.
We won


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## Montana Cat 65

*July trip*

We were on the Main July 17 - 23 and the yellowjackets were pretty aggressive. I got stung 3 times while cooking when I inadvertantly trapped the between either arm and body or (the worst) skirt and belly. They also tried to take chunks out of the sandal wounds on my ankles and took a chunk out of my nephew's nose so he bled. One member of out party had a little "sting stick', a suction device for removing the "venom" and that seemed to work well. We sometimes used a decoy plate, but they weren't really fooled, and I wonder if by feeding them we encourage larger populations. They didn't like the mole sauce and that was the one meal we got to eat in peace.

All in all, a minor irritation since none of us were seriously allergic. But that was a month ago.


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## avondan

We pulled off the Lower Salmon a week ago. Yellow jackets were bad during the first 20 miles or so, but lessened as you went downstream. Our first camp was a bit rough due to the YJ's trying to get on any meat you had exposed, and their tendency to get on your beer cans. The remaining nights on the river were not nearly as bad. We managed to get 5 kids downstream with only one getting stung. One other got stung at the takeout while sitting in the truck as we loaded.


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## Anchorless

The yellow jackets were horrid during our trip (June 29-July 4). My dog got bit several times almost every single day... and one morning he was bit at least 5 times. Stupid bastard wouldn't stop biting at the flying pests, no matter what how we tried to keep him away. 

And it was a serious exercise in Zen to cook sausage in the morning with 15 yellow jackets swarming my table.


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## Bruce from Canmore

Good to know! We'll come equipped with traps and plans for a decoy if necessary. A good bit of Zen and a IV drip for my beer so I don't drink one by accident!


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## cain

Launching on 8/23. Thinking about screen houses for kitchen and sitting area and spraying vinegar at the door openings. Has anyone tried this.


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## boogercookie

We launched July 22 and the yellow jackets were fairly aggressive at all the camps. Someone brought a cheap screened kitchen tent which turned out to be a life saver for cooking and dishes. 

Everyone who went by our camp was pointing to the screen tent looking envious.


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## HalJ

We're headed up there today. Got the YJ traps, and 3 screened shelters. Thanks for the good beta everyone!


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## malloypc

Bruce from Canmore said:


> I'm curious, are the yellow jackets a problem on the Lower Salmon as well?


Just got home from a six day trip on the Lower.
Only time we had issues with yellowjackets was breakfast at one of the camps above Packers Creek, just before entering Cougar Canyon. 
Word was they are worst at the more popular camps and there are less isues with them further downstream.
Proved true for us in the Maloney Creek / Oxbow area - we stayed at a not very used middle camp with no issues while the folks at Lower Maloney were inundated.
- Jerry


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## cain

Anyone have an update on the YJ's on the Main.


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## Paco

*reading comprehension...*



cain said:


> Anyone have an update on the YJ's on the Main.


ummmm.... isn't this entire thread about how bad the yellow jackets are...on the main...right now...?


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## farp

We had a trip come off the Main a few days ago and the word was the YJs weren't quite as bad. That said, they're still bad. We have been taking many, many, many YJ traps and we've been setting our trash far from the kitchen. We've also been cooking any meat dead last -- and quickly, especially fish. They seem to abate the further down the river. The Lower is a cakewalk compared to the Main, but they're still bad in Cougar and Snow Hole canyons. They're worst at sunrise and sunset.
We have a program to get rid of them: it's called "winter."
Bring on the snow.


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## restrac2000

People have asked about the yellow jacket traps....they can be purchased at Home Depot, at least in Boise that was where we picked them up. Sorry for the delay as I don't always sign in and see messages unless I am about to post.


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## bobblehead

Got off the Main Salmon last Friday, and can attest that the YG's are BAD. Here's the thing: my group was all vegetarian so we had no meat cooking. Even so, certain camps were over-run with hundreds of them. We were pretty zen, and as recommended in an earlier post, stings are directly proportional to the amount of arm flapping and swatting. Still, out group of 7 racked up about 15 stings all-together. A group taking off at the same time said they all recieved about 10 each, so i guess we did ok! Traps are a great idea, or you can make our own. Take a 2-liter plastic bottle, cut off the top a few inches down and invert the neck into the bottle so it makes a funnel of sorts. Drop some bait in, and watch the bottle fill up with the boogers. Make sure to take an extractor if you have one, and plenty of Benedryl. You'll also find that there is also a very healthy poulation of bald-face hornets. These are the bigger, blacker (and meaner) ones flying around. My 8-year old took a shot from one of these guys and she said it hurt ALOT more. After some experimenting with bait, we discovered they liked the following fro mour kitchen: stale beer, apples and dog food. I guess it is the oil in the dog food, or meat, but they liked that more than anything. Worst cam p by far was Hida, Jim Moore was the best.


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## restrac2000

Sucks that Hida was still overrun as it was one of my favorite camps overall. The camp was littered with food trash when we arrived so we cleaned it up the best we could. The # of yellowjackets there was impressive even once we located the trap away from kitchen. 

They did love my dog's food to her logical anger.

The locals said the bald-faced hornet stings feel like a aluminum bat against the head so I am glad we never found out. Sorry to hear your son got stung.

Phillip


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## bobblehead

Thanks Phillip,

Funny about the bat metaphore...well, not really funny, but my daughters leg swelled up pretty good. It is a good point about food scraps. Always harping on my daughters to make sure we arent leaving microtrash, especially food. Those camps get alot of use, so it is really important that we clean up after ourselves. Bummer to hear Hida was dirty. We found most camps pretty clean, but didnt see many groups using tarps under cookng areas to catch junk.


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## restrac2000

oops, sorry to misread and assume it was your son.

I have been happy to suck up the costs of kitchen tarp to keep camps cleaner. We bought one of those CGear sand free mats and they are awesome for folks like me who love to walk barefoot (a scary ordeal at some camps with all of these yellow jackets).

Hope your daughter didn't suffer too much and loved the trip.

Phillip


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## lll100

Got off Main yesterday and bees are epic. Yellow Jackets by the thousands and bald faced Hornets. 15 people and 40 stings. Only 1 camp with minimal bee impact, Easter Egg. Traps helped but only so much. We easily killed/trapped 500-1000. Great trip still but the BEES. Good luck.


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## MT4Runner

Bees or yellow jackets/hornets?


The honeybees are getting a bad rap because of their nasty cousins!!!


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## lll100

yellow jackets and hornets. Edited the post. Sorry to offend. Large number of big honey bees doing there thing with no issues to river use. The Bald Faced Hornets just cruzed the river and camps at all times of day. Big black suckers. Would not cancel trips but pre-prepping meals to avoid kitchen time will help. Had to walk around while eating often, sitting on back of boat alone helped. Worked 5 full seasons on Salmon and had 1 night with similar yellow jackets conditions. Never 6 straight nights. Friend got off Lower yesterday said yellow jackets were bad as well. Lets hope for a cold wet spring next year.


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## MT4Runner

I'm not personally offended. 

Trying to teach my kids the distinction right now.


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## mania

If every group for the rest of the season brought 10 traps each is it possible to eradicate the hornets or at least put a real dent in the population? and I thought deso was bad.


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## restrac2000

doubtful. They are feeding the larvae right now and each nest can have thousands of workers. The queen continues to lay eggs during the summer as the workers are successful, which seems to be the case right now. 

Only way to stop the #s is kill the queen and that isn't gonna happen with traps. 

Phillip


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## johnovice

From wikipedia:

"Adult workers chew and condition the meat fed to the larvae. Larvae in return secrete a sugar material relished by the adults; this exchange is a form of trophallaxis. In late summer, foraging workers change their food preference from meats to ripe, decaying fruits, or scavenge human garbage, sodas, picnics, etc., since larvae in the nest fail to meet requirements as a source of sugar." 

(Mostly, I just thought that was interesting; maybe, only maybe, relevant to their potential upcoming behavior and that of boaters seeking relief. I know they were all about meat late July/early Aug.)


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## patrick l

Anyone got a bee report? Putting on in a few days and wondering if I still need bee keeper outfit.


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## Whetstone

Friends who just took out yesterday said the yellow jackets were still horrific. I too am launching in two weeks and hoping for a cold snap to reduce thier numbers.


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## rivers2run

This is the worst time of year for yellow jackets, they will not abate until a good freeze comes. Yellowjackets and Other Social Wasp Management Guidelines--UC IPM Some sites suggest ammonia with water near food tables may help to repel them.


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## Spanky

We took off on Thursday, had a few stings in our group but nothing crazy. Over all they were not a trip killer just a little nuissance. Bring traps and keep a clean camp and you will be fine. We had a barrel for garbage that worked really well. 

Also, plan for how you are going to get your trap down and into the garbage when you put it up other wise some one is going to have to take one for the team. We learned this the hard way. 

The people in our group that had problems would freak out and start swatting at them. Keep calm and share your camp with them and you will not have a problem.


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## ptex1

our group got off on wed. Motor camp and lower yellow pine were terrible. Literally thousands of bees. Pre- cooked meals and dont start cooking until dusk seemed to be our best defense. Our group was 14 and i think only one person didnt get stung. Im investing in a screen tent or 2 after that trip. Eat and walk. If I did it again I would stay at non-reservable small sites. The south fork camp was awesome. No bees


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## 90Duck

Just took off from a 5 night trip, still hanging in Riggins. YJs were definitely a pain in the ass, but no deal killer by any means. They got progressively worse from Corn Creek to Alder, Blackadar, and were at their peak at Big Mallard. Hainey was just your normal to be expected amount as was Upper Bull. The Carey Creek ramp was as bad as Corn Creek. 

We had a really big group with lots of kids, but not a whole lot of stings (or bites). We also used a barrel for trash and a sand mat in the kitchen and hung traps a ways away. Most bites came from accidental contact with them; they are aggressively after food but could really care less about the humans carrying it around.

It was good to be forewarned and thus prepared for dealing with it. Would go again tomorrow if I could.


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## openboat

In the future, it might be good to take along a box of baking soda as an antidote. We have always found making a moist poultice of the powered soda and applying it to the bite really counteracts pain and swelling.


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## HalJ

We took out on Friday. We were very thankful we had yellow jacket traps ( Rescue brand the BEST!) and a couple of netted canopies to cook and eat in. This years low water definitely makes you pay attention for sleepers, and it bumps up the II rated rapids a touch. The "new" rapids at Alder and Black Creek are obvious runs, after you take a peek at them.


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## brandob9

Any more news on the Lower Salmon? Since I've only done it once, which camps are popular? It's looking like just the wife and I, so we have lots of flexibility.


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## 90Duck

*camps*

Don't even worry about camps with just two of you. We had a group of 26 so we were pretty well locked in to reserving big camps to make sure we had someplace that could accommodate all of us. With a small group at low water there are pretty much countless choices of cool little beaches that you could stay on. As a bonus, you probably won't encounter nearly as many yellow jackets staying on little used beaches. It makes me want to go back with a small group just to try some of them out.


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## brandob9

HalJ said:


> We took out on Friday. We were very thankful we had yellow jacket traps ( Rescue brand the BEST!) and a couple of netted canopies to cook and eat in. This years low water definitely makes you pay attention for sleepers, and it bumps up the II rated rapids a touch. The "new" rapids at Alder and Black Creek are obvious runs, after you take a peek at them.


I grabbed a couple from home despot this afternoon. How did you move them from camp to camp without having the yellow jackets follow the bright yellow thing?


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## 90Duck

We carried ours in a rocket box that was going to be our ash can. It was hot enough that we didn't bother with having a fire. The trapped YJs got tossed in the dumpster at Spring Bar on the drive out.


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## brandob9

No concern with taking them down in the mornings? The cashier thought I'd have a cloud of the bastards chasing me when I moved it. I laughed, but thought it was worth asking.


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## 90Duck

brandob9 said:


> No concern with taking them down in the mornings? The cashier thought I'd have a cloud of the bastards chasing me when I moved it. I laughed, but thought it was worth asking.


I was concerned, but we had a zen master guy on the trip who calmly gathered them in the cool of the morning with no problems.


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## AvonRafter

Put in at corn creek 08/08 - out on 08/12 - Ranger said the YJ's weren't as bad as they had been a couple weeks ago. We had 19 people so at big camps - Worst camp was California - they met us as we got off the boats - we built a fire every night - that drove most of the wasps away. Had more problems with the deer flies than the wasps - bit the crap out of me! The high DEET repel spray kept them away - for a while. Their favorite YJ food was the fresh cilantro we brought for making tacos - bit the person chopping it up. Put it in a zip lock on the ground and they filled the bag. Not too many stings - screen house and traps recommended, but I wouldn't cancel unless allergic.


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## HalJ

*Trap disposal*

We too, had a Yellow Jacket whisperer on our trip. He would remove the trap with the 300-400 YJ carcasses with a long stick, and dip it in the river before putting it in the trash bag. They really were not that interested in people....only our food.
One of our group was unlucky enough to get stung twice....once in the outhouse at Corn Creek (right in the taint!) And then at lunch, a YJ crawled into his ham sandwich, and he got stung on this tongue. He is, undoubtedly, already mentioned in Yellow Jacket folklore....


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## cmharris

*2017*

How are the yellow jackets this year?


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## BlueTurf

*Not bad*

I took off yesterday and I think I saw one or two the entire trip.


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## cmharris

*Salmon Yellow Jackets*

Thanks. I have a friend in Salmon who says it looks like a normal or light year for yellow jackets.


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## Floatin mucho

We pulled off the 4th, and didn't have any issues with YJ's. There were some deer flies, but they were not bad.


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## davbaker

Oh man, I started reading this thread from the beginning without looking at the dates. I was starting to think things would be hellish by our launch date 8/23. Glad I finally figured it out. 


Sent from my iPhone using Mountain Buzz


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## tyaker

*2019 YJ update*

Hey folks, any current stinging incidents? Gearing up for a July 11 start, wondered if we should pack the traps....


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## MT4Runner

Got off Friday.
Almost non-existent but I got a random fly-by sting while hiking below Carey


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## MT4Runner

cmharris said:


> Thanks. I have a friend in Salmon who says it looks like a normal or light year for yellow jackets.


I'd have to agree.


We launched 6/28 last year and this year. 
They weren't a problem last year but they were everywhere.
This year we barely saw any. Some honeybees, some other little black/yellows, but only the one YJ I mentioned and it happened to sting me.


Plan on some sacrificial fruit or meat a distance from camp (throw it away/pack it out when you leave) and have an amazing time.


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## Riverwild

Looking for any updates on the Yellow Jackets. Anyone been off the Main Salmon recently with a report?


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## athelake

We got off Saturday. They seemed lighter than normal.


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## JamesClyde

We took off 8/30 and there were a few at Corn Creek and the folks who get easily annoyed noticed them in camps, but there were very few overall.


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## GeoRon

MT4Runner said:


> Plan on some sacrificial fruit or meat a distance from camp (throw it away/pack it out when you leave) and have an amazing time.


This is one rare instance where I'd disagree with MT4runner. Instead of placating and promoting the ongoing existence of yellow jackets, I say kill the little MFers. They exist in popular camps to the extent that they do because we bait them in one way or another. They are no more a part of the natural order that we think we can out smart than to think that we should put out a rib-eye steak at the edge of camp to keep the bears from coming into the middle of camp. 

Sacrificial bait just means the next unprepared/unknowing group will suffer that much more. What those bastards are doing is tending to their offspring/propagation. If you watch you will see that they have the jaws of a shark and they butcher off a chunk that they fly away with.

YJ's get particularly bad in the later summer and in popular camps. Take yellow jacket traps I suggest and when you see your traps with dozens of dead YJ's you should be happy to know that you are restoring a natural order that was disturbed by our presence and that future visitors in that camp may have inverse-exponentially fewer YJ's. Don't worry, you won't cause them to go extinct.


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## MT4Runner

Fair point, GeoRon!


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## MontanaLaz

Just took off on Monday and they were very light. I don't think there were any at a couple of camps, but I did take one in the lip at the scout for Black Creek. I had gotten so used to not having them around that I didn't check my can first...D'OH!


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## GeoRon

MontanaLaz said:


> Just took off on Monday and they were very light. I don't think there were any at a couple of camps,


Maybe the benefits of YJ traps are being realized! Maybe not. 

If I were a betting man I'd wager that previous users at those camps had traps. I know that some groups are using them. 

Hopefully public awareness is resulting in more groups being proactive regarding over-populations of yellow jackets at popular campsite and lunch stops. So PLEASE, do not feed the wildlife and take or devise traps. By all means clean up micro litter food scraps. At group lunch for example we use wax paper squares to minimize food spills.

Or maybe it is just a light year. 

Online I saw the most ingenious impromptu possible on-the-river YJ trap, smearing stinky bait on a stick and suspending the stick across a wash basin with lightly soaped water. The bait should be on the bottom of the stick very close to the water. When the YJ takes off weighted with food in jaws it drops into the water. The video was done by a priest so I guess that means this method of elimination has 'gods' blessing. Below is a link to that video. Online there were many other "free" and effective traps.

This brings to mind another possible "trap". We frequently use a bucket(wash tub, bail bucket) with water to be the receiver of beer and pop cans. In the future I will add a very small amount of soap to see if it entraps YJ's. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ng-ylBN43PA


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