# Weight and Ratings - Truck, Trailer, Boat, and Gear.



## azpowell (Aug 14, 2014)

ouch, you think when you buy a truck it would have more towing capacity than that... I'm betting that your low towing capacity has to do with engine transmission combo and gear ratio and associated coolers. I was curious about my situation and pulled the specs off a brochure. 











I would suggest an upgrade, but im telling you the fuel stations are robbing me whenever I drive it. (118 gallons of fuel hurts at $5.50/ gal)


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## tBatt (May 18, 2020)

1000% combo of engine, transmission, and FD ratio. I was kinda surprised to see that I have a lower towing capacity than a Tacoma with a tow package (11,200 GCWR, 6400 TWR).

I just bought the truck in July 2020, kinda on the front end of the covid surge of people wanting to buy trucks. Got a relatively good deal at $19,500 with 54k miles. I had an F250 gasser with rust holes big enough to put my head through and a new VW Golf Alltrack, but the $525/mo payments on the Golf, especially considering only driving it occasionally in the summer and paying another $200/mo to store it through the winters wasn't working out. I found myself in the truck every weekend after getting my boat and the 12 MPG was killing me.

Not having a whole lot of luck finding these chart for other manufacturers.

Edit: www.towingcap.com has lots of numbers. 

Checking 2015 4x4s just for fun. Doesn't specify engine size. 

F150 XLT
Towing: 7500
Payload: 1740
Rear Axle: 3300

Chevy 1500 LT 
Towing: 7600
Payload: 1951
Rear Axle: 3850

Tundra SR5 5.7L 
Towing: 9900
Payload: 1475
Rear Axle: 4150

Tacoma
Towing (No Tow package): 3500
Towing (w/ tow package): 6500
Payload: 1300
Rear Axle: 3100

Outback
Towing: 2700 (2.5L), 3000 (3.6L)
Payload: 1100
Rear Axle: No Data


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## azpowell (Aug 14, 2014)

A set of airbags and a higher rating tire would make your truck safer at a higher loads, if you threw on a set of electric brakes on that trailer I wouldn't think twice about pulling a 3 boat load with 5 people... with the long wheel base I would guarantee it's more stable than a Tacoma at the same load. Also it being a full size truck it probably has larger breaks than a taco... the real problem is when the tail wags the dog, and having a narrow short wheel base makes this more dangerous. 

I'm blown away at the low gcwr and the payload on that truck though. 

I pull a 19,000lb 72' road train when I go to the glamis, I keep it at 60mph and give myself tons of room.


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## tBatt (May 18, 2020)

I put bags and load range E tires on the truck and electronic brakes on the trailer last summer. I was hoping to get some Load Range D tires on the trailer, too, but they're pretty hard to find in a 14" tire.

The axle is pretty close to being centered on the trailer box, so I'm pretty diligent on adding some extra tongue weight. It does tow pretty straight. I kept it right around 70 mph with no issues. I considered moving the spring perches back 10" or so, but it's way easier to just throw 10G of water in the front of the boat. 

My bigger concern at that point is trying to keep it under 3,000 RPM. 8 Speed transmission, but it doesn't like to come out of 5th.


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## westwatercuban (May 19, 2021)

I’m hurting at the pump too, but the 6.7 cost less per mile than my f150 did. So I guess it works out. But I NEED my truck. So the cost out weighs the cons.

If you don’t tow much I would just look at a half ton with a different motor. Pretty big price difference between a 1/2 ton and 3/4 ton. However, the 3/4 ton will pull everything you have like a dream. Won’t even realize it’s there.

I’m really surprised how low your tow rating is on that truck. Didn’t think that would be an option on a 1/2 ton..like how does a mid size truck tow more??


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## tBatt (May 18, 2020)

You'd think I bought a Subaru Baja or a Honda Ridgeline. 
Empty, I get about 20mpg. I was getting 21 with pretty mellow highway tires. Dropped closer to 19 with the ATPs. The Hemi I looked at was getting more like 14. 
As far as using the truck as a work truck, I pick up a carpentry side gig every two months or so. In the winter I put maybe 2,000 miles on it. In the summer probably 15,000. I'd say 3 out of 4 weekends in a month I'm on a 500+ mile trip to go to a river or take the MTB somewhere. Towing is exclusively the raft trailer.

Am I terribly worried about the payload? Not really. At this rate I'm a bit more concerned about running at 3,000-3,500 RPMs for 4-6 hours at a time.


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

Small trucks today, aren't the small trucks of yesterday. Boaters and a couple other groups seem to push their limits more than the average truck buyer. If I had to hazard a guess, I'd say 95% of Ram 1500's, Gm 1500's and Ford 250's likely never see more loading than a cooler, or a couple sheets of plywood in the back from Home Depot. To a lesser extent, as well the 3/4 ton offerings only see an RV for 2 weeks in the summer, and maybe a week in hunting season if the owner is so inclined. 

This all changed from what was in the late 2000's when the manufacturers were pushed to increased fuel mileage. Companies put little v-6's in with 2 hairdryers and multi speed transmissions in them, and in Ford's case, beer can bodies and aluminum driveshafts (literally, and the source of their latest 3 year all inclusive recall) to make them lighter, all 3 lightened up the frames and suspension so the little V-6's could move them around, and Ford practically injection molded everything else on the entire truck, and put in axle ratios that would spin up the little v-6 so it could actually tow something. Not a lot, but something. These trucks weren't meant to work, they are pretty much grocery getters. That you're towing with yours is a testament to modern engineering IMHO.

Towing with a V-6 in days of yore was something you just didn't do, the technology just wasn't there, and IMHO it's not there today, whether you have a a GM, Ram or ford. I'd be more concerned about keeping a little ford v6 spinning that fast than I would a GM or RAM as they are the epitome of cheaply constructed (Saw a blown up HO model out of a Ford Exploder cop car last month, not a lot to them at all, and what is, wow. Connecting rods the size of my index finger sticking thru the side of the block, 17K miles of in town use), but it's likely not doing the engine a lot of good. As long as the cooling system can keep up, and the trans temps stay down though (IF you don't have a trans temp guage, you should....), it's likely not really hurting anything, I WOULD however change the oil more frequently, and run a good quality synthetic in it. With these high output (for what they are) motors these days, quality oil matters.

Chevy and RAM didn't go to such extents in some of their models, Gm went to little diesels, which kick ass. I have a 2.8 in my Colorado that will out perform most any 1/4 ton truck, and a F-250 in anything BUT off the line performance. The little hairdryers in the Ford V-6 spin up faster than the one in my Chevy diesel (my sole complaint with it, a K&N filter and intake helps a LOT), but as soon as I get going, they are in the mirror. The Duramax 2.8-liter turbodiesel four-cylinder is the engine of choice for me. It puts out 181 horsepower and 369 pound-feet of torque, it's rated at 7700 GVWR and 1550 something towing, but I've had significantly more weight on the ass end of it and done 85 across the reservation on the way to a GC trip numerous times. I'm talking fully loaded 3 stack GC trip with 4 people in the cab, or a fully loaded 28 day trip in an 18 foot dory, which I did weigh at 2600 lbs with a 800 lb trailer. It gets between 30 and 35 empty, and 23-26 loaded to the gills towing. 

My friend has a Durango with the little 3.0 I think Cummins, routinely tows a 6 place snowmobile trailer loaded up wolf creek pass at 60.. Another friend has a Silverado, which is a 1500 with the new 3.0 Duramax, and past his complaint about it drinking DEF like it's going out of style when towing, tows a 30 foot bumper pull RV with his family of 4, and gets similar fuel mileage to mine. He did say there was a recall on the DPF system, and hasn't towed since the dealer did their magic, so I can't say anything about the DEF consumption, but it hasn't hit the forums I frequent as an issue. 

At the end of the day, if you buy a quality truck and want to tow with it, think diesel. If not, then think GM or RAM with a small 8 cyl. If you REALLY need to tow weight, you can't beat a Cummins, nothing from any other manufacturer stands up, or holds up. Yes, I know if you wind a V-8 ford up high enough, it almost puts out the same numbers, but the Cummins does it at low RPM, and will do it all day, without throwing a rod, the latest "feature" plaguing the Ford diesels. 

You'll also have a truck that wasn't built to be disposable, but then quality of EVERYTHING lately has suffered to some extent. My wife's 4 runner, while built on the Tacoma IIRC truck frame, lord the interior quality went to hell, as did the body fitment and trim. The price is still up there though. My one significant bitch with it is changing the oil filter. It's a PITA of epic proportions, which includes a little plastic piece you need to use in conjunction with the toyota specific filter wrench to spill oil all over you, the floor, and everywhere other than in the pan, after you remove the cheap ass skid plates bolted in with 10 fasteners.. If I wasn't so cheap, I'd have a mechanic do it, but oil changes these days are $100 bucks at a shop.. I'd imagine the Tacoma's with the same engine would be a similar PITA.. 

My 2cents, YMMV


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## carvedog (May 11, 2005)

> ....pic from middle/main before we went food shopping
> View attachment 74510


Are you food shopping at Cascade River Gear?


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## tBatt (May 18, 2020)

If they had food and block Ice, it sure would have saved me some driving time. 
#Paws4life


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## Jeephacker (Jul 2, 2021)

You can look up your tow rig here to see it's towing capacity





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RV Towing Guide | RV Towing Calculator


Ensure your new or used RV is capable of being safely towed. Use our Vehicle Tow Rating Calculator to learn if your car can tow your camper.




rv.campingworld.com


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## nolichuck (Mar 11, 2010)

MNichols said:


> Small trucks today, aren't the small trucks of yesterday. Boaters and a couple other groups seem to push their limits more than the average truck buyer. If I had to hazard a guess, I'd say 95% of Ram 1500's, Gm 1500's and Ford 250's likely never see more loading than a cooler, or a couple sheets of plywood in the back from Home Depot. To a lesser extent, as well the 3/4 ton offerings only see an RV for 2 weeks in the summer, and maybe a week in hunting season if the owner is so inclined.
> 
> This all changed from what was in the late 2000's when the manufacturers were pushed to increased fuel mileage. Companies put little v-6's in with 2 hairdryers and multi speed transmissions in them, and in Ford's case, beer can bodies and aluminum driveshafts (literally, and the source of their latest 3 year all inclusive recall) to make them lighter, all 3 lightened up the frames and suspension so the little V-6's could move them around, and Ford practically injection molded everything else on the entire truck, and put in axle ratios that would spin up the little v-6 so it could actually tow something. Not a lot, but something. These trucks weren't meant to work, they are pretty much grocery getters. That you're towing with yours is a testament to modern engineering IMHO.
> 
> ...


Lots of good info here but I think you should have mentioned the 7.3 liter powerstroke which was available in the Ford f-250 and 350 from 1994 to 2003. I bought a 2001 f-250 8 years ago so I could haul our camper and my wife's equines. It now has 265,000 miles on it and has required very little maintenance. I know several people who have well over 400,000 on their 7.3's. I still have a 2006 Tundra which does everything except the real heavy hauling. I have been driving it most of the time lately what with diesel costing 85 cents more per gallon here in Salmon.


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

nolichuck said:


> Lots of good info here but I think you should have mentioned the 7.3 liter powerstroke which was available in the Ford f-250 and 350 from 1994 to 2003. I bought a 2001 f-250 8 years ago so I could haul our camper and my wife's equines. It now has 265,000 miles on it and has required very little maintenance. I know several people who have well over 400,000 on their 7.3's. I still have a 2006 Tundra which does everything except the real heavy hauling. I have been driving it most of the time lately what with diesel costing 85 cents more per gallon here in Salmon.


Thanks. there are so few of them left, and it was so far in the past, that I didn't think to mention the sole diesel Ford put in it's trucks that was even worth a crap. International made these for Ford, till they figured they could make one cheaper, and brought us the first in long line of failed attempts, starting with the 6.1.. 

Interesting, you hear all the time about Ford owners putting Cummins engines in their Ford's, but you never ever hear of anyone putting a powerstroke in anything else..


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## westwatercuban (May 19, 2021)

MNichols said:


> Thanks. there are so few of them left, and it was so far in the past, that I didn't think to mention the sole diesel Ford put in it's trucks that was even worth a crap. International made these for Ford, till they figured they could make one cheaper, and brought us the first in long line of failed attempts, starting with the 6.1..
> 
> Interesting, you hear all the time about Ford owners putting Cummins engines in their Ford's, but you never ever hear of anyone putting a powerstroke in anything else..


The 6.0 and 6.4 are trash motors. International knew that. But they didn’t care. It’s really what tarnished the super duty name. Ford was tired of the issues international gave them and made the 6.7. The 7.3 was a beautiful reliable fat pig. Still kick myself in the ass for selling mine. The 6.7 is a great motor too. Ford is on the 3rd generation with it. First gen wasn’t bad, but had a turbo issue. I believe they fixed it back in 2015. Everything after that people have been putting 300k+ on them with minimal wear and tear issues.


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

westwatercuban said:


> The 6.0 and 6.4 are trash motors. International knew that. But they didn’t care. It’s really what tarnished the super duty name. Ford was tired of the issues international gave them and made the 6.7. The 7.3 was a beautiful reliable fat pig. Still kick myself in the ass for selling mine. The 6.7 is a great motor too. Ford is on the 3rd generation with it. First gen wasn’t bad, but had a turbo issue. I believe they fixed it back in 2015. Everything after that people have been putting 300k+ on them with minimal wear and tear issues.


Other than the rest of the truck falling apart LOL.. the only international engine was the 7.3. international gave ford the heave ho, not the other way around.

It was the same sort of deal that happened when Ford tried to blame Firestone for the exploders flipping over if you inflated the tires correctly, so they under inflated the tires, the tires blew, and Ford blamed Firestone. 

This had to do with the V8 engine, in diesel version, being unable to centrifugly lubricate the Piston skirts correctly, when the Piston skirts started becoming one with the cylinder walls, Ford blamed international.. international produced memos where they told Ford that it was a bad design, and Ford said build it anyway. To build it properly would have been cost prohibitive, according to Ford...

Ford has had problems with turbochargers ever since the 6.1, which had a variable vane turbo on it.. There's a reason nobody else uses those on diesel engines.. there's also a reason that 98% of diesel engines out there are in line sixes. If a V8 Diesel was such a great idea, how come you don't see it in construction equipment, over the road semis, or anything else? 

The only company that ever had any success with this design, was Isuzu, who coincidentally makes the GM Duramax...

It would seem we have hijacked this thread talking about Ford.. my apologies to the op


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## westwatercuban (May 19, 2021)

My apologies too.


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## JHUrbina (Aug 19, 2021)

tBatt said:


> After too many thread of "Which Vehicle Should I Buy" and always hearing/saying to make sure you're not exceeding Gross Combined Weight Ratings, I decided to actually stop and get a weight last weekend on my way to Westwater. I stopped at the scales on 6 just outside of Price. There were people working and there is not just a digital readout. It was late and the guy working hooked it up and gave me a print out.
> 
> This was just a one day trip, although we camped the day before and after in Green River I had most of my overnight gear. We only had 3 people in my truck and very little food or beer. I have a steel trailer, 2x6 wooden lower deck, 2x6 framed 16OC and 1/2" PT Plywood sheeted upper deck. My 16' Avon SB was loaded with frame, transom, some stuff in the dry box, empty 165qt cooler, wooden deck boards and captains floor, 10G water, a big outfitter bag, and some random stuff in my drop hatch. The second boat was a 14' Aire cat with a frame and nothing else. The cat probably only weighs 65 lbs.
> 
> ...


Hi. Wondering then if trailer design for most towed


MNichols said:


> Small trucks today, aren't the small trucks of yesterday. Boaters and a couple other groups seem to push their limits more than the average truck buyer. If I had to hazard a guess, I'd say 95% of Ram 1500's, Gm 1500's and Ford 250's likely never see more loading than a cooler, or a couple sheets of plywood in the back from Home Depot. To a lesser extent, as well the 3/4 ton offerings only see an RV for 2 weeks in the summer, and maybe a week in hunting season if the owner is so inclined.
> 
> This all changed from what was in the late 2000's when the manufacturers were pushed to increased fuel mileage. Companies put little v-6's in with 2 hairdryers and multi speed transmissions in them, and in Ford's case, beer can bodies and aluminum driveshafts (literally, and the source of their latest 3 year all inclusive recall) to make them lighter, all 3 lightened up the frames and suspension so the little V-6's could move them around, and Ford practically injection molded everything else on the entire truck, and put in axle ratios that would spin up the little v-6 so it could actually tow something. Not a lot, but something. These trucks weren't meant to work, they are pretty much grocery getters. That you're towing with yours is a testament to modern engineering IMHO.
> 
> ...


this makes me wonder about trailer axle and design capacity there. It tells me if I have a GVWR around 9000 lb., that for a rafting trailer it is a single axle preferably with brakes (Dexter) rated at 3500 lb. Unless I was pulling a group’s worth, this should get my rig loaded, or am I wrong for multi days driving across country to get there?


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## BenSlaughter (Jun 16, 2017)

My trailer has a 3,000# leaf sprung axle under it. It's worked well for all the(hard) miles I've put on it. It doesn't have brakes, doesn't feel necessary, towing with a 1ton.
Two beefs I have with it though...it is pretty rough on back roads, without a heavy load- but I think the only way to solve that is with an air ride. The other issue is the axle has a substantial bit of camber built into it, and unless fully loaded(which I rarely do) it doesn't flatten out, therefore wearing the outside of the tires quickly. Should probably get the tires rotated on the rim, but who want to take a half day to go deal with the tire shop??


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

I run a 3500# dexter torflex axle with the acculube grease system, have for years, put brakes on as it's state law here in CO for towed vehicles over 3500#, but never actually hooked them up. Tows like a dream, carries a 5 stack easily of paddleboats, or a 3 stack loaded for bear. Doesn't bounce much when empty, likely have 30K miles on it over 20 (?) years of heavy use.


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## JHUrbina (Aug 19, 2021)

MNichols said:


> I run a 3500# dexter torflex axle with the acculube grease system, have for years, put brakes on as it's state law here in CO for towed vehicles over 3500#, but never actually hooked them up. Tows like a dream, carries a 5 stack easily of paddleboats, or a 3 stack loaded for bear. Doesn't bounce much when empty, likely have 30K miles on it over 20 (?) years of heavy use.


Simple flat bed with roller design or small amount over solid surface area (18”-22”) underneath storage? Electric winch? 7’x12”? This Torflex system appears legit. Looks like I have to put together the selection. Can’t find a nice kit with 10 ply tires, 16” wheels. Any recommendation other than finding a more local builder in Maine, or is this where I should cut my teeth with either MIG or stick with a multipurpose 220 V 250 A Yeswelder?


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## westwatercuban (May 19, 2021)

JHUrbina said:


> Hi. Wondering then if trailer design for most towed
> 
> this makes me wonder about trailer axle and design capacity there. It tells me if I have a GVWR around 9000 lb., that for a rafting trailer it is a single axle preferably with brakes (Dexter) rated at 3500 lb. Unless I was pulling a group’s worth, this should get my rig loaded, or am I wrong for multi days driving across country to get there?


As long as you’re within the weight limit and you have safely loaded the trailer you’ll be perfectly fine. Drive around the world as much as you want. You’ll get the hang of it over time. The longer the distance the less gear I would personally put into the boat. But as long as the boat is geared up correctly you shouldn’t run into issues.


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## BenSlaughter (Jun 16, 2017)

I don't think a guy can buy the parts and build his own trailer for the cost of buying one, but that's IF you can find one you like. Mine's got a 7x16' deck with a roller on the back and MDO decking. Intermediate rollers would be nice...I'm scheming on that.
Under storage would also be nice, occasionally. But that raises the deck, which isn't ideal.

If you're thinking about a welder, look at HTP. They're made in eastern Europe somewhere. I haven't used one(yet), but they're well regarded among serious hobbiest & farmers.


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## JHUrbina (Aug 19, 2021)

BenSlaughter said:


> I don't think a guy can buy the parts and build his own trailer for the cost of buying one, but that's IF you can find one you like. Mine's got a 7x16' deck with a roller on the back and MDO decking. Intermediate rollers would be nice...I'm scheming on that.
> Under storage would also be nice, occasionally. But that raises the deck, which isn't ideal.
> 
> If you're thinking about a welder, look at HTP. They're made in eastern Europe somewhere. I haven't used one(yet), but they're well regarded among serious hobbiest & farmers.


Tandem axle?


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## BenSlaughter (Jun 16, 2017)

Mine's single.
I think tandem is overkill for raft trailers.


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

JHUrbina said:


> Simple flat bed with roller design or small amount over solid surface area (18”-22”) underneath storage? Electric winch? 7’x12”? This Torflex system appears legit. Looks like I have to put together the selection. Can’t find a nice kit with 10 ply tires, 16” wheels. Any recommendation other than finding a more local builder in Maine, or is this where I should cut my teeth with either MIG or stick with a multipurpose 220 V 250 A Yeswelder?


Rigid hitch out of Burnsville Minnesota I think, is probably one of your local suppliers, they have an excellent selection and great prices. I'm not sure what a yes welder is, but either a MIG or a stick welder would suit your purposes nicely.

I thought though, 16-in Wheels are going to set you way up in the air, most trailers get along just fine with 13 inch load range d or e tires... It's what I run, at highway speeds and never have a problem, I don't buy the cheapest ones, nor the most expensive ones.


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

BenSlaughter said:


> Mine's single.
> I think tandem is overkill for raft trailers.


For what it's worth, I agree. Why burn up an extra set of tires, and an extra set of bearings to maintain. You most certainly don't need, the operative word being need, the capacity of another 3,500 lb axle


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## tBatt (May 18, 2020)

If you're running 3 fully loaded multiday rigs, I'd say go with a tandem axle and 15" tires.


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## Montet202 (Aug 22, 2020)

Definitely tandem axel. With two separate suspension systems Bach there, the rough access roads smooth out a ton. Any boat/gear on that dual axel trailer gets beat up way less. It’s not just about capacity.


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## tBatt (May 18, 2020)

Missing a cooler (250 lbs?), two other people’s personal gear, and another multi day rig.

My rig is pretty dense. 

Adding the 250 lb cooler we'll call it 1300 lbs boat only, 1400 lbs trailer only (12' x 8', decked, and 2x6 lower deck). 2700 lbs boat and trailer. Interested in seeing how much of that is taken as tongue weight.


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## westwatercuban (May 19, 2021)

tBatt said:


> Missing a cooler (250 lbs?), two other people’s personal gear, and another multi day rig.
> 
> My rig is pretty dense.
> 
> ...


The questions that keep you up at night I take it? Lol


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## tBatt (May 18, 2020)

Leaving for MF Salmon tomorrow AM and happened to have a scale that hangs from the overhead crane sitting next to me. Curious for sure. Mostly I was curious on the weight of the trailer, because trailers under 750 lbs in Utah don't have to be registered. It claimed unlaiden wait, so do I count the 2x framing, 3/4 PT plywood decking, and rollers? Seems kinda like I'd be over that regardless.


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## JHUrbina (Aug 19, 2021)

Seems like a single Dexter #11 Torflex axle is the size. #12 is RV ish. Home | Dexter Axle Co


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