# Perimeter line



## Salidaboater (Nov 5, 2013)

I've read all the posts regarding perimeter lines. But when tying one on, is one continuous rope better than 2, one for each side?

What is the best knot for tying one?

Thanks


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## bucketboater (Jul 9, 2012)

2 15' cam straps


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## nezbit (Nov 17, 2013)

Go get one, long ass piece of 1" tubular webbing. Tie one end onto a 1" cam buckle, string the rest through your "D" rings and pull tight as you can get it through the buckle.
Now you've got a bunch of anchor/ prusik/ tarp rigging etc material, if needed.


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## LochsaIdaho (Jun 25, 2012)

nezbit said:


> Go get one, long ass piece of 1" tubular webbing. Tie one end onto a 1" cam buckle, string the rest through your "D" rings and pull tight as you can get it through the buckle. Now you've got a bunch of anchor/ prusik/ tarp rigging etc material, if needed.


Naw. Use a nice round rope that is easy to grasp when you are swimming back to your boat after being ejected. Don't use some piece of tight ass 1 inch tubular webbing... Sure tubular webbing is awesome to have for many things- that is why I carry it in my rescue kit- not as my perimeter line... My 2 cents.


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## LochsaIdaho (Jun 25, 2012)

Use a knot that works for you. There is no "best knot". I have used bowlines, figure 8s, and double fisherman's. A water knot might also work for you.


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## cataraftgirl (Jun 5, 2009)

On rope I use a figure eight knot. I've recently switched to webbing & cam buckle and like it a lot better. Mine is one piece, but you can do two if you want. What you use & how you do it is more personal preference that what's "the best way." Some folks don't like any perimeter line at all.


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## portercassidy (Jun 10, 2010)

Used both rope and webbing. I like webbing more because I can get it pull it tighter to the tubes, and it becomes less of an entrapment issue. In my experience, ropes tend to stretch too much around the perimeter. 

I like to use 2 biners and a z-drag setup to get it to the appropriate tension. This also allows me to be able to pull the webbing off the raft, and have an already to go z-drag, with a couple of adjustments for whatever it will be used for.


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## cataraftgirl (Jun 5, 2009)

Here's some pics of how I did mine. Like portercassidy I found that ropes stretched out over time, and I didn't want to (or couldn't) untie the knots to tighten up the rope. I like that I can adjust the tension on the webbing and I can take it off completely if I want. I hadn't thought about the z-drag/rescue usage of the webbing....interesting.


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## B4otter (Apr 20, 2009)

Kinda' depends on the purpose of your "perimeter" (aka "chicken") line. As well as where your D-rings are positioned... I run both rope (7/8" diameter on my SD Puma, yes, big thick stuff, nylon braid, could literally moor a battleship) and webbing (17' old school Havasu). No one has mentioned rope, being round, will roll if you step on it... (late night sojourns to grab that last round of brewskis). Yes, you can rig webbing flatter and tighter. Upside down paddle raft = easier to climb aboard bottom and flip back up with rope and some slack on the line. Big rig oar raft, where you're mainly looking to give passengers something to grab onto and don't want entrapment issues = webbing. But splitting hairs compared to other issues, and the only thing to take care with either solution is to keep fairly tight - not drum tight, but snug. Both rope and webbing stretch when wet and under load. A little time on the water will prove how much... bigger issue might be direction of pull on D-rings, and I've seen 250 pound + peeps pull D-rings right off several rafts clambering back aboard. Prol'y better than separated shoulders on the boatfolk, 'though...
Rope also takes longer to dry when you are ready to roll raft...


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## restrac2000 (Mar 6, 2008)

Nylon tubular webbing is hydrophilic and will absorb a ton of water and therefor deal with an excessive amount of stretch and therefor shrinkage as it dries. This is especially an issue for repeated use and multiple day trips. Early in its use it may be appropriate to use as extra webbing for anchors in a rescue situation but that approach becomes less safe and suspect the more time passes. 

Polypropylene ropes are hydrophobic and also has a low specific gravity which allows it to float. That is why it has been traditionally used as chicken lines and bowlines. The material is less damaged by UV rays then nylon ropes and webbing. Unfortunately, the durability of poly lines is largely dependent on the source material. Many companies, like hardware stores carry a low-grade rope that will degrade more over time. 

Knots: Bowlines are easier to untie which also means they need a backup overhand knot when used for long periods. Figure 8s are bomber but nearly impossible to untie after being weighted aggressively (consider a figure 9, as its easier to untie). 

Best knot.....the one you can tie and untie that best serves your purpose. Very user specific. 

In general.....I would warn against using your perimeter line for emergency purposes. Mechanical advantages stress ropes dramatically and I would not want something that has been weathered by water and UV to the extent the perimeter line will have been. I would have the proper amount of cordage, rope and webbing in a waterproof bag that is easily accessible. Don't skimp money on it. In emergencies you want the best, most reliable gear possible.

Phillip


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## cataraftgirl (Jun 5, 2009)

I used tubular polyester webbing for my perimeter line. Doesn't stretch when wet like nylon. Rot resistant when exposed to water and UV. Stronger, more abrasion resistant, and not as rough as polypro. I got mine from strapworks.com. I'm happy with it so far.


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## readNrun (Aug 1, 2013)

cataraftgirl said:


> Here's some pics of how I did mine. Like portercassidy I found that ropes stretched out over time, and I didn't want to (or couldn't) untie the knots to tighten up the rope. I like that I can adjust the tension on the webbing and I can take it off completely if I want. I hadn't thought about the z-drag/rescue usage of the webbing....interesting.


So is that nylon tubular webbing or polypro strapping? I know the cam buckle strap is polypro but is the rest of the webbing tubular nylon?


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## cataraftgirl (Jun 5, 2009)

ironmanbldr said:


> So is that nylon tubular webbing or polypro strapping? I know the cam buckle strap is polypro but is the rest of the webbing tubular nylon?


Tubular polyester webbing.....for all the reasons I posted about above. Nylon stretches way too much when wet. Only the cam buckle part is polypro.


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## readNrun (Aug 1, 2013)

cataraftgirl said:


> Tubular polyester webbing.....for all the reasons I posted about above. Nylon stretches way too much when wet. Only the cam buckle part is polypro.


Totally missed that previous post - my bad.


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## cataraftgirl (Jun 5, 2009)

ironmanbldr said:


> Totally missed that previous post - my bad.


Polyester is a good compromise between nylon and polypro. Many of the good properties without the negatives.....at least for a perimeter line.


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## Salidaboater (Nov 5, 2013)

cataraftgirl said:


> Polyester is a good compromise between nylon and polypro. Many of the good properties without the negatives.....at least for a perimeter line.


Did you use one continuous piece.


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## restrac2000 (Mar 6, 2008)

cataraftgirl said:


> I used tubular polyester webbing for my perimeter line. Doesn't stretch when wet like nylon. Rot resistant when exposed to water and UV. Stronger, more abrasion resistant, and not as rough as polypro. I got mine from strapworks.com. I'm happy with it so far.


Have never researched polyester line as its not available locally nor had I encountered it in my previous technical sports.

For those looking at using perimeter line for rescue and z-drag setups you will definitely want to research breaking strengths. The polyester mentioned above for a chicken line would be a poor performer for technical rope rescue on the river. It breaks at a measly 2800 lbs....no way I would put that on a z-drag for a raft stuck in a current. Nylon is often twice as strong but has all the flaws previously mentioned. 

Will look into the tubular polyester for my next chicken line though....seems like a great material for purpose and environment.

Phillip


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## cataraftgirl (Jun 5, 2009)

Salidaboater - I used one continuous line. This is on a 12 ft. raft, so two lines didn't make much sense.

restrac2000 - while looking for a long length of webbing I came across strapworks.com. A great resource. You can order all kinds of cool things, plus they will make stuff for you. That's where I found out about polyester webbing. It has a much higher working load strength than polypro. I already knew not to get nylon from my experience with hammock camping. Nothing worse than ending up barely off the ground in my hammock after a rainy night and nylon strap stretch. I'm thinking of having strapworks make all my 1.5 inch frame straps for a new raft. They have lots of colors & even patterned strap material to choose from.

As far as using the webbing perimeter line for rescue.....it would not replace my rescue kit stuff, and would only be a last ditch option. But it was something that had never occurred to me.


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## readNrun (Aug 1, 2013)

Well - I guess I have 42' of nylon tubular webbing for some other project now  Need to place an order for some polyester webbing.


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## caverdan (Aug 27, 2004)

We use our Avons for both paddle and gear boats. When using them for paddle boats, we found that round rope compared to flat webbing as chicken line is a literal pain in the a$$ to sit on. It's usually the guide position that you find this problem occuring. Thus our reasoning for using flat webbing instead of round rope. 

WARNING.....Watch out when buying rope these days. Anything you buy from a hardware or Wally World store has a core made out of what look like dryer sheets. Check the core very carefully before you buy that pretty rope.


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## readNrun (Aug 1, 2013)

cataraftgirl said:


> Here's some pics of how I did mine. Like portercassidy I found that ropes stretched out over time, and I didn't want to (or couldn't) untie the knots to tighten up the rope. I like that I can adjust the tension on the webbing and I can take it off completely if I want. I hadn't thought about the z-drag/rescue usage of the webbing....interesting.


So - why did you go with tubular polyester vs. flat polyester webbing? 

warning - you probably answered this in an earlier post/thread and I'm didn't scour for the answer


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## cataraftgirl (Jun 5, 2009)

ironmanbldr said:


> Well - I guess I have 42' of nylon tubular webbing for some other project now  Need to place an order for some polyester webbing.


Bummer. You could make webbing slings out of it for your pin kit. When it's dry it's fine. Just stretches too much when wet.


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## cataraftgirl (Jun 5, 2009)

ironmanbldr said:


> So - why did you go with tubular polyester vs. flat polyester webbing?
> 
> warning - you probably answered this in an earlier post/thread and I'm didn't scour for the answer


Not totally sure? But I think the tubular came in the color I wanted.


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## readNrun (Aug 1, 2013)

cataraftgirl said:


> Not totally sure? But I think the tubular came in the color I wanted.


Ya know....one thought would be that tubular webbing has a better feel when grabbing on to it.

Technically the specs for both are pretty close to each other.


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## cataraftgirl (Jun 5, 2009)

ironmanbldr said:


> Ya know....one thought would be that tubular webbing has a better feel when grabbing on to it.
> 
> Technically the specs for both are pretty close to each other.


Definitely better than polypro. You know how stiff and rough the regular polypro straps get after they have been used & out in the elements awhile. Rigging with them can really trash your fingers. The tubular polyester doesn't seem like it will get rough and rub on the boat.
Strapworks.com has some really cool patterned polyester webbing. I'm thinking when I'm ready to get some 1.5 inch straps for my raft frame I'll look at those. My one concern however is making sure the cam buckles get a tight grab on the polyester like they do polypro. I haven't noticed any slippage with my perimeter line, but I don't want any issues with the straps that are holding my frame on.


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