# Best State for Whitewater?



## WhiteLightning (Apr 21, 2004)

I guess it depends on what kind of whitewater you want access to. If you want wilderness multi-day raft trips, then low. Accessible roadside day trips-high, low volume technical creeks-high(?), high volume "big water" low, freestyle/play opportunities- ??. Paddling community-awesome. 

I've done 99% of my boating in Colorado, so maybe someone better traveled than me could give a better answer.


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## ballbuster (Aug 20, 2008)

California


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## PaulGamache (Apr 4, 2007)

Cali, no question about it. Hood River alone would make Oregon way closer to 2nd then CO would ever be.


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## Geoff773 (May 20, 2008)

Having spent the last three years in Oregon, I am biased but that is my vote. Lots of multi-day options, varying levels of day trips, lots of remote runs, and best of all it runs almost year round. California and Washington are fun as well but you can access both of them from Oregon so i'll stick with that decision. 
Recently moved to Colorado and started kayaking so my priorities may change soon.


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## yetigonecrazy (May 23, 2005)

ive got 5 generations of colorado in me but even I have to give props to the Pac NW- Wash, OR, or BC.....the water is cold and the weather sucks but there is an abundance of quality year round water, and when everything is in season there is way more runs than colorado could ever dream of having.....


california just has a lot of acreage which = more runs, sorry, science doesnt lie......but i dont think it has the season like the pac nw


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## rideon (May 2, 2005)

*Cali all the way.*

Colorado born and raised...California is the bitchinest. There was never a weekend when we didn't have options for running stuff. 

but this discussion will rage on...


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## C-dub (Oct 7, 2007)

Pac NW. Mostly from the year round perspective. Their"down time" is summer. Seasonal is all relative.


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## RealityCheck (Jul 15, 2005)

yetigonecrazy said:


> ive got 5 generations of colorado in me but even I have to give props to the Pac NW- Wash, OR, or BC.....the water is cold and the weather sucks but there is an abundance of quality year round water, and when everything is in season there is way more runs than colorado could ever dream of having.....
> 
> 
> california just has a lot of acreage which = more runs, sorry, science doesnt lie......but i dont think it has the season like the pac nw


Yeti, why the fuck are you always talking about shit you know nothing about??? Everyone knows you have never paddled any of those places. Relax and just boat, son. One day, if you have actually gotten out there, you may have an opinion worth posting.

The acreage of Cali does NOT have much to do with the quality...Why TF doesn't Texas have the sickest WW if its all size?
It's the geology, steady vertical rise, climate zone, precip patterns etc...


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## yetigonecrazy (May 23, 2005)

yeah, just because i havent paddled there doesnt mean i havent BEEN there.....

just relax and quit trying to feel big and manly and one day you wont be such a wannabe kato, bro


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## xkayaker13 (Sep 30, 2006)

Hey, give the yeti a break. If he wasn't around then who would people rip on?


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## WyoPadlr1 (May 5, 2005)

Too bad you want just one state. CA, WA, OR, ID, CO, WY, MT all have their charms. But, 15 separate trips to Cali would tend to make me vote for it. Yeah, WA and OR might have longer "seasons" but CA has better weather, warmer water, and you can boat year-round in CA if you're willing to do a little driving. That, combined with so many miles of perfectly smooth Sierra granite boulders to paddle around, make it pretty tough to beat.


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## FrankC (Jul 8, 2008)

For a kayaker, I would have to say West Virginia beats the hell out of anything out west. Primarily because you can boat year round while in the west most everything is strictly seasonal especially the creeks. Throw in the relatively warm water, pool drop rivers and hundreds of runable creeks and you can't beat it. Possible whitewater "user day" opportunities are exponentially higher than lets say CO. I wouldn't want to live there, though.



Red West said:


> Just wondering, how does Colorado rank for whitewater compared to other states? I know there are a lot of factors to consider, but is there a site that ranks the states for whitewater access?


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## phlyingfish (Nov 15, 2006)

Okay here's my obligatory vote for Idaho. While there are very few creeks to speak of here in southern Idaho, we make up for it with big rivers flush with rapids. Northern Idaho offers creeking, uncrowded big rivers, and more wilderness than your state, unless you're in Alaska. Play options range from decent in the off season (Bliss Wave and the incoming WW park) to epic when the flows are up (Boise, Payette, Snake, and Salmon). Multi-days are abundant and diverse in these parts: desert canyons ranging from IV-V to II-III, the big permit runs are ultra classic, newly uncovered creek epics like Hazard Creek, or you can head into the Yellow Pine zone (shown in the upcoming LVM edition) and link up a number of runs like an overnighter all-you-can-eat buffet. Did I mention that certain runs have banks carpeted in gourmet mushrooms if you time it right?

Plus, I don't know of another city besides Bosie where you have a guaranteed class I-V in after work range every single day from April to October. That's leaving town at 5:30, on the gnar by 7:00, easy. No waiting for rain, no praying for flow, no lack of daylight during the summer. I've done WV and while there is a staggering amount of runs, you'll be hard pressed to have the water to actually paddle them most of the time. Cali is certainly sweet, but there aren't many places to hold down a job and go boating afterwards, so you're confined to weekend warrior status there. Yeah, Idaho may not be year round, but if you actually paddle all season here you'll need a break. Hood River is a reasonable drive (5.5 hours) and fires up just as the Boise area starts to wind down. Lastly, Boise will be installing a white water park within a year or two, and if we are to belive the designers there will be something to play on even at low winter flows.

-Mark


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## spartankayaker (Aug 28, 2006)

*Portland has plenty of after work paddling*



phlyingfish said:


> Okay here's my obligatory vote for Idaho. While there are very few creeks to speak of here in southern Idaho, we make up for it with big rivers flush with rapids. Northern Idaho offers creeking, uncrowded big rivers, and more wilderness than your state, unless you're in Alaska. Play options range from decent in the off season (Bliss Wave and the incoming WW park) to epic when the flows are up (Boise, Payette, Snake, and Salmon). Multi-days are abundant and diverse in these parts: desert canyons ranging from IV-V to II-III, the big permit runs are ultra classic, newly uncovered creek epics like Hazard Creek, or you can head into the Yellow Pine zone (shown in the upcoming LVM edition) and link up a number of runs like an overnighter all-you-can-eat buffet. Did I mention that certain runs have banks carpeted in gourmet mushrooms if you time it right?
> 
> Plus, I don't know of another city besides Bosie where you have a guaranteed class I-V in after work range every single day from April to October. That's leaving town at 5:30, on the gnar by 7:00, easy. No waiting for rain, no praying for flow, no lack of daylight during the summer. I've done WV and while there is a staggering amount of runs, you'll be hard pressed to have the water to actually paddle them most of the time. Cali is certainly sweet, but there aren't many places to hold down a job and go boating afterwards, so you're confined to weekend warrior status there. Yeah, Idaho may not be year round, but if you actually paddle all season here you'll need a break. Hood River is a reasonable drive (5.5 hours) and fires up just as the Boise area starts to wind down. Lastly, Boise will be installing a white water park within a year or two, and if we are to belive the designers there will be something to play on even at low winter flows.
> 
> -Mark


Not voting per se, just clarifying that Portland has several rivers within an hour's drive (leave work at 530 and on the water at 7). Though it may not include tons in the Class V range, there is plenty between Class I and IV. In fact, from April through October there are organized after work paddling groups on both the Upper Clackamas and White Salmon. That said, Boise is sweet and I love the water over there.


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## deerfieldswimteam (Apr 17, 2006)

I want to give a shout out to the Northeast, the whole of which is about the size of CO. Friendly community, nice rivers, and incredibly beautiful when the leaves turn. And some steep creeking, if you're into that sort of thing.

Of course, I still think CO is better.


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## whitewaterjunkie (Feb 8, 2006)

The cover feature from the most recent Paddler Mag:

Paddler Magazine Online : Why Aren't You Here?


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## phlyingfish (Nov 15, 2006)

"I want to give a shout out to the Northeast, the whole of which is about the size of CO. Friendly community, nice rivers, and incredibly beautiful when the leaves turn. And some steep creeking, if you're into that sort of thing.

Of course, I still think CO is better."

Ain't nothing wrong with the good old Northeast, especially if you include New York and the area of Canada within two hours of the border. You can always count on the Deerfield for some nice III+ boulder slalom boating outside of the rainy season. New York may have the best bedrock class V east of Cali along with some killer play when the flows cooperate. The play elsewhere is not terrible either, what with the ocean, any number of local glory holes, and relatively easy access to the sickness that is the Ottawa and Lachine. The downsides are that the hard stuff is totally rain dependent, the gradient doesn't last very long, and everything is spread out. There is no single decent-sized town with quick access to a lot of quality, although Burlington and maybe a couple towns in the boonies of Maine have some claim.


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## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

And what can beat the Lochsa for a 30 mile day run? Rapid after rapid after rapid, Pipeline anyone?



phlyingfish said:


> Okay here's my obligatory vote for Idaho. While there are very few creeks to speak of here in southern Idaho, we make up for it with big rivers flush with rapids. Northern Idaho offers creeking, uncrowded big rivers, and more wilderness than your state, unless you're in Alaska. Play options range from decent in the off season (Bliss Wave and the incoming WW park) to epic when the flows are up (Boise, Payette, Snake, and Salmon). Multi-days are abundant and diverse in these parts: desert canyons ranging from IV-V to II-III, the big permit runs are ultra classic, newly uncovered creek epics like Hazard Creek, or you can head into the Yellow Pine zone (shown in the upcoming LVM edition) and link up a number of runs like an overnighter all-you-can-eat buffet. Did I mention that certain runs have banks carpeted in gourmet mushrooms if you time it right?
> 
> Plus, I don't know of another city besides Bosie where you have a guaranteed class I-V in after work range every single day from April to October. That's leaving town at 5:30, on the gnar by 7:00, easy. No waiting for rain, no praying for flow, no lack of daylight during the summer. I've done WV and while there is a staggering amount of runs, you'll be hard pressed to have the water to actually paddle them most of the time. Cali is certainly sweet, but there aren't many places to hold down a job and go boating afterwards, so you're confined to weekend warrior status there. Yeah, Idaho may not be year round, but if you actually paddle all season here you'll need a break. Hood River is a reasonable drive (5.5 hours) and fires up just as the Boise area starts to wind down. Lastly, Boise will be installing a white water park within a year or two, and if we are to belive the designers there will be something to play on even at low winter flows.
> 
> -Mark


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## will raft 4 beer (Nov 6, 2003)

Another shout out for Oregon here--beautiful rivers everywhere, rainforest, NO off-season. But the logs are an issue for creeking; we don't have as many yakers with mini chainsaws cutting the wood back. Figured I'd mention Utah and Arizona; hard to beat the river that holds the mighty Colorado through the Grand Canyon. I do miss CO though.


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## northfwestg (Feb 23, 2006)

*go to california*

ihowemt, shut up, montana is full of blown out methheads and cowboys with aids, rivers are all full of sewage shit and piss, youll get VD from drinking the municipal water, the whitewater is gay also, i say go to california ITS SICK


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## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

You are such a dope! How can you think someone, from this forum, would take you on their grand trip when you post like this all the time! 

Go stick your head back into some Flatfish art studio you elitist jerk!



northfwestg said:


> ihowemt, shut up, montana is full of blown out methheads and cowboys with aids, rivers are all full of sewage shit and piss, youll get VD from drinking the municipal water, the whitewater is gay also, i say go to california ITS SICK


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## seanypod (Jun 16, 2008)

No one has mentioned the South East. NC, TN, VA, West VA, GA. We got some fun shit around here located in and around the smoky mountains. Granted it is all rain dependant for the most part, but it is definatly a pretty area too.


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## BooF4FooD (Aug 13, 2008)

wow dude... no oneone has even mentioned Ark... Im sure its far from the "best" state.. but there is defo some bad ass creeks


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## northfwestg (Feb 23, 2006)

*hold this im pissing*

idontknowhowmt, so you live in the lux belt of missoula, your shit is slutted already, so dont be talkin shit bout me in the woods up yonder les you wanna paddle tomarrow??? hint two med bitch, GO TO CALIFORNIA,ITS SICK, cherry creek ya know, OREGON COOL TOO, rogue ?????


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## dugan (May 5, 2006)

yetigonecrazy said:


> ive got 5 generations of colorado in me but even I have to give props to the Pac NW- Wash, OR, or BC.....
> 
> How do you even type with 5 generations worth of Coloradans in you? It seems mathematically impossible and I think it also breaks several state laws. I have to give you props though - you have talent. You're sick....but talented.
> 
> I vote for California


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## 14kayaking2 (Jul 10, 2008)

*Best whitewater*

Washington. By far. There is a reason that there is a whole series of videos pretty much just filmed in Washington and Northern Oregon. (Twitch)

Oh and did I mention it has pretty much the longest season in the country. Robe(class V) has been running all year.


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## ScottBarnes (Feb 7, 2006)

How about making considerations for two things?

1. How frequently does good whitewater run? (all year, or limited season)

2. How much driving do you have to do? 

as a way to kick the hornets nest a bit, I'll use the example of New York City vs. Durango.
Within an 8 hour radius, a boater can drive from NYC to some kind of class V almost year round, and certainly some easier stuff all year. Within the same radius from Durango, stuff dries up or freezes up, and how many desert runs do you need a permit for?

Truth be told, I'd prefer spending my time in Durango. I grew up outside NYC and can't stand the piles of people on top of each other. But, thought it would be nice to add some perspective to this arguement that goes beyond blind allegiance to anyone's given state.


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## doublet (May 21, 2004)

Best places to live (in the US) if you wanna kayak class V - ID, WA, OR, NC, WV. All have consistent flows and high quality runs.

Best places for an epic paddling road trip (but maybe not ideal place to live) - CA, CA, CA. Tons of driving, each particular drainage has a very limited season, long ass shuttles, too many people, best whitewater in the country.

We should add international into the mix. I'd LOVE to move to Squamish.

PS - Thanks for posting that Paddler article. Good reminder as to why I haven't wasted my time with that magazine for several years.

PPS - Arkansas? WTF?


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## caseybailey (Mar 11, 2008)

Red West said:


> Just wondering, how does Colorado rank for whitewater compared to other states? I know there are a lot of factors to consider, but is there a site that ranks the states for whitewater access?


I have to think this is the stupidest thread ever. Better? Worse? Let's all raise our flag and sing zippity do dah. What's next...the best color? I like blue.


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## caspermike (Mar 9, 2007)

i like coloyomintana


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## Red West (Sep 3, 2008)

Thanks for the all the posts, good to know some places to consider next time the urge to move hits, always thought I'd like Oregon.


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## Randaddy (Jun 8, 2007)

I enjoy whitewater in many states. I guess my favorite state is _slightly intoxicated._


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## brian a (Sep 1, 2007)

I'm only a 2nd year boater and so I have zero experience outside the state (I hope to change that dramatically in 09). I honestly do think this is a valid debate, and it's funny how a passion that I have about boating can really have an impact on where I want to live.

One thing I have seen little commentary on is the boating community in particular for each state. I can't say enough about the great community of boaters in Colorado. I can't comment on the other states other than to say that in a recent trip to Idaho, Montana Wyoming, I could not find groups similar to CO Kayakers and CO Whitewater. Idaho has a yahoo groups site, but nothing other than that. Finding a guide book similar to Whitewater of the Souther Rockies?, no chance. The Montana Surf Book (found in the COOSR book) is out of print, and per the two kayak shops visited, I was told that boaters were expected to "earn it". Just can't imagine the good folks at Confluence, CKS, Alpine Sports, etc saying this.

One negative observation with Colorado that I've already experienced on both the Lower Elk and the Numbers is the river access laws. Getting yelled at for standing on the river bed in the numbers just seemed a bit obscene and frankly a bit backwards. Hell, even Utah changed their laws as it relates to access (see attachment). Seems CO boaters can unite to push for similar law changes in our states to protect the right to boat, and I would argue the right to portgage and rescue when necessary.

http://blogs.denverpost.com/sports/2008/07/23/utah-supreme-court-deli... 

Feedback on how the people in the states view boaters and just how the community of boaters in each state see each other is very helpful.

Thanks,

Brian


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## bwest (Mar 13, 2008)

how are you gonna judge this? i once made a sheet that factored in all different things that make the perfect paddling location. my factors were:

1. quality of whitewater
2. abundance of whitewater
3. accessibility
4. quality of culture
5. natural beauty
6. paddling community
7. season


all of these put together, it was a simple choice, wa/or. i really have to say that id prefer washington, with rain fed rivers all winter and spring and glacial/spring fed creeks that generally run all summer and often into the fall. 

the one thing that the area generally lacks is good multi day kayaking, some on the olympic peninsula but nothing like cali. the only problem with cali is that it is super expensive to live, buy gas, food and everything is a few hours away. the quality of whitewater is highest but you need time to go boating because everything is so far away unless you are lucky enough to have a job in some awesome little town near the boating. 

go to washington or oregon, plenty of jobs and the boating is all really accessible. the water comes all year long, its super beautiful, there are endless creeks, shuttles are generally really easy and short, and the reasons go on. or go cali and get the best of the best and spend all your money and drive too much


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## Yonder_River (Feb 6, 2004)

Most of the significant runoff in the spring/summer up here is snowmelt, so the season is longer than Oregon's. Everthing's pretty dried up right now except for a few creeks that are a ways away (mainly bc). 

But...fall rains should change all that in October. :mrgreen:


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## caspermike (Mar 9, 2007)

you were probably getting yelled at for standing up in the river because first off that is how foot entrapments happen and more than likely they were just telling you for your best interest.


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## aecrew618 (Jun 29, 2008)

Idaho has more navigable whitewater than any other state in the lower 48. The second most is Cali and it has about half the amount yet is double the size of Idaho. They got big volume rivers, creeks, waterfalls, and playboating.


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## C-dub (Oct 7, 2007)

Boating in Ut sucks. Even when our goods are in(some of it spectacular), we still only have 2 or 3 class 5 runs. This puts a severe stunt on weekend warrior skill growth.

The upside to boating in Ut is Cali, WA, ID WY,MT, CO, Nevada, NM and OR are all within a half days drive.

As to Brian A's coment about other boating communities. 

Of what I've seen Idaho's scene is tough to break in to. A big part of that is most of the boaters I've met, mostly Boise, are about the North Fork Payette period. Boise seams to be much more of a rafting than a kayaking scene. Again outside observence and there are great runs in ID.

I suspect, MT and WY are aflicted with the same issue you will run into in UT. There simply aren't that many avid boaters. At the local parks, let alone creeks, it is rare to see anyone you don't know and know the life history of. In larger boating communities ie WA,OR, and CO, there are simply more people and that is what makes the comradre easier.

As far as shops and folks go. The Co shops have been nice and helpful when I've been in thm. Never been pointed in the wrong direction. Hell, CKS is SLC's local shop.
Next adventure in Portland is also quite freindly. I beleive the line was :you should go run farmlands, I am off at 1".

Anyway, Iam sticking with the pacific NW. BWest nailed it spot on


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## brian a (Sep 1, 2007)

Casper Mike,

This may be a redundant message as I typed one and it dissapeared.

Thanks for the comment about foot entrapment. I'm well aware of the risks of standing in moving current which is why we were standing right at constriction in dry river bed on numbers (# 5 I believe?). We knew the history and the risks of being yelled at as trespassing is civil at best per fed laws). This was our first time down numbers and we weren't going to run a drop blind..... talk about risk.

Colorado seems somewhat progressive when it comes to water recreation rights especially when you consider the number of whitewater playparks blanketing the state, and the case that some states are just now breaking ground on their first parks. If boaters could unite and push for a freshening up of the high water line law that most of our neighbors have, it would allow for safe scouting and/or portaging/rescue without the risk of trespass or in most cases a harassment, and things would be about perfect. At the very least setting up scout, portage and put in/take out easements would be handy.

Either way, I feel lucky to have found a sport that is alive and full of good people regardless of the state. There are no losers in this poll.

Brian


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## yetigonecrazy (May 23, 2005)

brian a said:


> Colorado seems somewhat progressive when it comes to water recreation rights especially when you consider the number of whitewater playparks blanketing the state, and the case that some states are just now breaking ground on their first parks. If boaters could unite and push for a freshening up of the high water line law that most of our neighbors have, it would allow for safe scouting and/or portaging/rescue without the risk of trespass or in most cases a harassment, and things would be about perfect. At the very least setting up scout, portage and put in/take out easements would be handy.
> 
> Either way, I feel lucky to have found a sport that is alive and full of good people regardless of the state. There are no losers in this poll.
> 
> Brian


I do feel that Colorado river/property disputes are starting to side more on the boaters, and I firmly believe that is because of the knowledge and class of Colorado boaters. There will always be a few bad apples in any group, but on the whole colorado boaters seem to be a very respectful, eco-sensitive, cooperative, friendly community, and i think various local law enforcements have noticed that and are becoming receptive towards us as a result. Take a look at some of the access issues these days, Sportsmens Paradise, Willow Creek, the Lake Fork, etc, and you'll notice a similar pattern of "the local sherriffs are extremely helpful towards kayakers...." and again, I think thats due to the respect we have earned as a community over the years. The only thing now is to just make sure we continue to uphold those principles, so our favorable image in the eys of the law enforcement doesn't get soured. but i dont think that will be a problem........


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## atg200 (Apr 24, 2007)

I love the long desert rafting trips, so Utah/Colorado is my favorite(with Idaho and Oregon coming in second). I ski, climb, and fly fish for afternoon and day trips so quick access isn't as important to me. 

Its great to think that within a few hours drive of SLC you have long trips like the Grand Canyon, Cataract, the San Juan, Desolation Canyon, Gates of Lodore, the Yampa, the Dolores, Bruneau-Jarbridge, and if you get lucky the Dirty Devil, Escalante, and San Rafael River. Add in overnighters like Ruby/Horsethief, the Green below Flaming Gorge, and my favorite - Westwater - and life is pretty good if you have a flexible schedule.


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## Clark (Apr 24, 2004)

California - live here. Perhaps the best territory in the world for class V boating. Tons of driving and it can be tricky to get flows right, but its amazing. Don't come for the play boating. People are cool - but they make fun of 1) colorado and 2) playboaters... (b/c they associate 1 with 2)

Washington - lived there. Tons of stuff and easy access to BC. Lots of driving - not as bad as Cali, but lots. If you're excited about the "year round" season, you better be f-ing dedicated - its freaking cold boating there in the winter... brrrrr...... 

Colorado - grew up / learned to boat here and it has it all. Great place for play and has a good paddling "scene" - so many play parks... Easy access to lots of runs (i.e. less driving) - especially when things are flowing. Creeking is pretty good - until you go to Cali. DOn't get me wrong, there are some good creeks, but its not the same.

West Virginia - amazing play and some pretty nasty V too. Washington DC area is also sick - the Potomac has ridiculous playboating... 

Oregon - eh... lots of volcanic rock - it hurts your boat. good play though. 

Southeast sounds sick - never been. Idaho just a bit. Montana is sick, but it seemed to me that there were not the numbers of runs as in other areas... THough I hear there is a lot of new stuff being run. 

Up shot: if you like all around paddling and a fun boating scene, its tough to beat Colorado or west virginia. If you want super high quality whitewater, wilderness runs, epics, or running BIG stuff that is clean, then there is nothing like Cali.


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## Jiberish (Oct 20, 2003)

if its strictly a vote for just kayaking, WV hands down to me. Beyond the year round season, the variety of different boating you can do goes beyond that of most any state. When it rains you can surf the dries at 50k, and run mill creek for dinner. Its the only place I can really say I was doing Pan-Ams on January First, with the new river at 17k cfs, and it was sunny, and warm

Ben Guska


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## fred norquist (Apr 4, 2007)

CO represent, worrrd


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## Experience Bliss-Stick (Nov 8, 2007)

North Carolina.


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