# How young is too young??



## DoStep (Jun 26, 2012)

That is too young for GC. I saw what appeared to be a pretty happy 11 year old girl on a trip that passed us. Not sure much younger than that would work unless an exceptional kid. Her 13 yo brother was there as well, but the parents chose to withdraw him from school for the semester, as making up the missed time was not going to work in their situation. But I suppose that is a different topic. Whenever they go, unless it is middle of summer (yuk), school will have to be addressed.

Keep the permit and go if you can arrange for the kid(s) to be cared for in your absence. Three weeks is a long time to be away when they are that age, which was the toughest part for me. But if you are intent on taking kids when they are of appropriate age, you will be doing them a service by taking the trip and start preparing to make their future trip an enjoyable experience.

Now that age is fine for a trip like Ruby/Horsethief (but not over 10-12K cfs in my conservative opinion), so get them out on trips like that as soon as you feel comfortable doing so. You might as well start their training now.

Good luck!


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## yesimapirate (Oct 18, 2010)

Second that opinion. Haven't been on the Grand yet, but committing multiple continuous weeks of camping(and BIG water rafting) for any kid that can't wipe their own butt is a beyond too aggressive. Imagine the amount of storage space needed for new and soiled diapers for a 20+ day trip! Yikes! The Army surplus store better be having a blowout sale on ammo cans.

There are many other reasons that would make me say absolutely not, but this was the first that came to mind.


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## b_liner1 (Apr 8, 2007)

In my opinion, it is not only too young, but way too young. Like was said above, trips like ruby horsethief are great for kids, but only at the right level. Also look into the san juan. I have never been on the grand, and probably won't for a decade or so, as I have a very young kid, but can you imagine your 2 1/2 year old kid swimming lava?

I run a commercial rafting company on the snake in Wyoming, and what I always tell people is if they are prepared to have their kid swim any rapid on the river, we will take the kid on a rafting trip, otherwise they are too young.


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## ukonom (Nov 21, 2008)

Agree - way too young. I've done the Grand several times and have a 1.5 year old we've taken out a bunch on other trips. No way would I even consider taking a 2.5 year old. Logistics aside, it's just not worth the risk.


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## Osprey (May 26, 2006)

I believe the cutoff for most commercial outfitters is 12 if that's a guide.

When we went our kids were 5 and 11 and we didn't take them. They sure had a great time with grandparents though! I'll love it when I get to take them someday but I wouldn't recommend taking most kids down there until they are older. Even then there is a lot to consider until they are probably in their teens and have a lot of experience. 

It's an endurance trip, a lot of fun but also a lot of work. Since you are limited to 16 everybody counts. Everybody who can't pitch in is more work for everyone else. The younger the kid the more they need constant supervision taking another person out of the equation. 

Then you have the risk, cold water, big water, heavy current. Are you willing to have someone walk a lot of the rapids? Some big rapids can't be walked. I'm not willing to risk my kids life for an awesome trip. Every year a lot of adults are air lifted out of their trip due to injuries and unfortunately there always seems to be a few who don't come back. If you think you can rescue a 3 year old from a flip in the grand I'd say you are probably wrong. 

Leave the kid and take the trip, put in for a San Juan permit to take them on.


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## David L (Feb 13, 2004)

In addition to the above posts, I don't think your 2.5 year old son would later in life remember anything about it, would he? Unless it would be something subconcious.

I'm just not sure what life-type personal benefit he would get from the trip, besides you telling him he was there, that would come anywhere close to outweighing the risks to him.

And, who knows how it might impact other people on the trip?


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## kayakfreakus (Mar 3, 2006)

I don't usually troll or try and engage in flaming, but this has to be a joke right? 2.5 year old on the Grand - my guess is the ranger would arrest you at the put in.


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## carvedog (May 11, 2005)

I started one daughter at 3.5 years old and one at 4 on the Middle Fork of the Salmon. They walked a couple of things. I had an adult always on duty ( usually me or my wife and one time a friend and his gal to help relieve) for immediate supervision. I had already guided for 10 years at that time. And we went at very moderate to low flows and I had been down the river over 70 times by then. And had done the river earlier in the season both times. The kids knew the rules that they couldn't even go near the boats without telling us and without wearing their PFDs and we practiced day trips to make sure they would and could follow the rules. They are 9 and almost 13 now and still have chapping, sunburn, pfd burn on the cheeks at this age. Twould be horrible if that was in the Ditch. 

Would not recommend for the Grand at that age or for that time period.


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## mountaindad (Mar 19, 2013)

A little too young but I would be thinking the same thing. Heck, I've got a newborn and was wondering if I could create an inflatable bubble around a car seat with an O2 supply. We could retrieve her with a giant lasso.

I am letting my 7 yr old sit out next year on the grand but taking the 10&12 yr old.


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## spider (Jun 20, 2011)

my 2yo was ok on way mellow Yellowstone trips last year. But the grand canyon?!! Hell no. Try sleeping in a tent with a toddler for a week and you will understand, they don't care for it and it is a lot of work and attention that needs to be devoted to them. Not to mention any more than 3-4 hrs and they get cooped up on a boat. That being said my boys first short trip was at 8 months. Mellow water. The first night of a multi day is hard and they get used to it after that but its a lot of stress. They have no concept of what a river can do to them. It just looks like a giant friendly bathtub to them. Break em in slow and give them positive fun short trips.


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## Rainen (Feb 3, 2010)

*WOW*

Thank you so much for the replies, all very helpful. Obviously 2.5 is too young, just wanted to know what the right is. Got a lot to think about....


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## spider (Jun 20, 2011)

I wish I could bring my wife and boy on the mfs but its a ways out. My music buddys will have to do for now.


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## slamkal (Apr 8, 2009)

2.5 is a good age for a day float on class ii my friend

7 is a good age for a mature girl (9 for most boys) and a week long trip on solid class III. 

Of course there are exceptions but I would never put a child in a situation that they couldn't extricate themselves from harm

Leave the family they probably won't appreciate it as much as you


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## mommydevo (Jun 5, 2009)

*One word: grandparents*

Went on my first Grand last year, thought long and hard about bringing my 9 and 12 year old, and in the end I was glad I didn't. I think they would have enjoyed most of it, but some long days on the river might have been hell for all involved. Can't wait to bring them when they're a little older and can pull their own weight in camp as well. But both the kids and the grandparents had an excellent 3 weeks.


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## shoenfeld13 (Aug 18, 2009)

Hi Rainen, As always the Buzzards have given great information and suggestions. I have taken my now 8 and 10 year old girls on many trips and have done the GC 2 times w/o them and have had a change of thought on when I would take them. I think a lot of it has to do with the temperament of your children. I originally thought I would bring them at 12 since that is the minimum age for outfitters. Then after my last trip I spent some time with some high school and college kids who were going down for their first time. I then thought that closer to 16 or 18 would be a better choice for a few reasons. 1, they would be able to make some decisions regarding what they are comfortable with and have some judgement to make choices. 2, they would be better suited to helping out. There is always plenty of work to be done and instead of just being a passenger who needed to be catered to, they could actually be a real participant. 3, they could really do all the bigger hikes and climbs. 

The Grand is a very big trip and I would rather my kids make the choice with some maturity, and be a greater participant. I have a friend who is taking his 12 year old son for the first time this year, but his kid is pretty exceptional. Of course, I may change my mind again after this next Grand trip in March...


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## Schutzie (Feb 5, 2013)

My daughter is 30, very fit (she thinks a 16 mile run is slacking) and loves the out of doors. 

Had a chance to take her on her first real river trip on the Grand, and had to think about that. I mean, she'd probably do fine, but if she decided on day 2 that sleeping in the sand, floating on ice water that has the consistency of chocolate milk, and pooping in a can was uncivilized I could envision 15 days of hell.

In the end we agreed; a first mountain climb to top Everest probably had some elements of risk that were better avoided.

2.5 years old and first river trip?? On the Grand? Nah.


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## carvedog (May 11, 2005)

Schutzie said:


> My daughter is 30, very fit (she thinks a 16 mile run is slacking) and loves the out of doors.
> 
> Had a chance to take her on her first real river trip on the Grand, and had to think about that. I mean, she'd probably do fine, but if she decided on day 2 that sleeping in the sand, floating on ice water that has the consistency of chocolate milk, and pooping in a can was uncivilized I could envision 15 days of hell.
> 
> ...


What the hell man? Your daughter at 30 and hasn't pooped in a bucket yet? Yer doing it wrong brother. And maybe missing out on the best times of your life. Plus I can't even tell what the hell happened. Did she or did she not go on the trip? And what does Everest have to do with the GC? I don't see the correlation. 

A 1,000 people have been on Everest and that many go down the Grand in June…..what is your point?


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