# Next piece of equipment?



## paor (Apr 21, 2008)

I’ve got a 14 foot RMR with three bays (drybox and cooler). I don’t have a ton of gear (no toilet system, stove, firepan, table, etc.) as others seem to have that. I’m wondering what you all think should be my next investment? I’m thinking of another bay with either a dry box or drop bag with a camp table. Thoughts?


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## griz (Sep 19, 2005)

Oar to Stripper Pole Conversion Kit, for sure.


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## Nubie Jon (Dec 19, 2017)

First of all hold out for four bays..... here I am getting critical.... Where it landed for me was the type of group I was in.... I rallied personal gear first as my group had all of the group gear.... I then went for assets to the group ... a second lp tank, another groover tank.... tables.... until I got to the point where I am truly self sufficient. If your doing it on your own.... then only you know your priorities.


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## Jamesdking (Mar 14, 2016)

Honestly I went with an anchor system and a fishing seat. But as the next umpteen comments will show... It all depends on what you want. I'd say take your credit card and buy yourself one thing you've been "thinking about" and get the bug out of your head. YMMV You have a modest space to work with at 14'. Treat yourself and get a creature comfort perhaps.


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## eddie (Apr 12, 2005)

I basically added a 4th bay to my Sabertooth last fall. (one 'bay' goes over the cross tube though) I went drop bag with a camp table, I haven't used it yet but I think it will work well. For the camp table, or more like appetizer/drink table, I cut 3/4" plywood to the exact size of the bay. Then I bought replacement legs for a roll a table to make the deck into a table. I think it's going to work great having the little drop bag for whatever incidentals and the deck to stack dry bags, etc. The other thing I bought but haven't used yet is a pop up pit (fire pit). It looks like it will work well, gets great reviews, meets regs for most rivers, and will fit in my little drop bag.


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## eddie (Apr 12, 2005)

I just reread your post and realize you have a 'big' boat. When I first read it I was picturing a mini max type of boat for some reason. If you went with a drop bag/deck option you would have tons of room in the bag. More importantly the deck would be big enough to sleep on. After 25 years of boating I just last year started sleeping on my boat, it's pretty much the best thing ever!


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## Critter70 (Nov 22, 2016)

Another Bay and drop bag would be a big step up. I’m doing the same thing every year get something else. This year was a woodland power stove, been on to many trips we’re stoves crap out, awesome to have a backup. Personally Ive been eyeballing the camp table from salamander lately, think that’s my next big one.


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## Fly By Night (Oct 31, 2018)

My guesses are:
Everything Bag
Rapid Rung 
Pop up pit 
Nice water jugs 

If you don't know what you need I think your money will be best spent after better determining what suits you, perhaps after a trip or two.


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## wharf-rat (Jan 29, 2019)

A solid shelter for when the winds are blowing, rains a pounding and the bugs bee buzzin. Keep the party going despite the conditions. Don’t forget yer favourite river hat, ( I carry a new hat for every river day)


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## [email protected] (Jun 1, 2010)

If you raft with somewhat the same people all the time ask them what they would like for you to have and bring on trips. When you have something to contribute to the trip, sometimes more invites are forth coming.


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## caverdan (Aug 27, 2004)

Bimini top


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## codycleve (Mar 26, 2012)

if you buy more stuff you need somewhere for it to go. So I would thing storage first. Either second dry box or drop bad with table. and an everything bag, they are life changing. another nice thing is captains bags or boxes, they are really nice to have quick access to things. Captains bags are much less expensive but not waterproof. 

Once you have maximized your storage then you can start to fill it.


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## almortal (Jun 22, 2014)

First you need a credit card with a higher spending limit.

If you are thinking carry capacity yes there is adding a bay or an everything santa bag. The santa bag will make rigging a lot quicker and you will have more time to help other boats rig and room to carry other people's stuff (get invited again for being helpful). 

If your crew already has all the group gear then being able to carry more of it is more useful than accumulating redundancies. The only exception to this is if you buy a much nicer groover than they already have (Selway Fab $$ or Johnny Partner $$$$).

Adding a 4th bay will also increase capacity and drop bag adds versatility - if you are thinking of "living on your boat" the extra surface area should be a priority. And the kitchen can always use another table.

The day you get a bimini is the day you start regretting not having gotten one sooner - the power boat ones on amazon are ~150.


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## SlipShot (Mar 26, 2018)

Personally I'm working to be self-sufficient. I'm pretty close, but my next purchase is Kelty Big Shady. I can use this sun shelter all summer, not just
for rafting!

https://www.kelty.com/big-shady/


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## tanderson (Mar 26, 2010)

Trailer frame with a drop bag and lid. A table for a lid is handy, however that table will be set up at camp and leave nowhere to sleep.


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## blueotter (Nov 30, 2018)

If you don't plan to sleep on the boat, I love my roll-a-cot. Best night's sleep I've gotten since I started rafting. I just love not being on the ground.


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## noahfecks (Jun 14, 2008)

If you came on an overnight trip with me and didn't have any group gear it's very unlikely I would ever invite you again. Your just another kyaker at that point.



Your next purchase should be a groover setup because if you don't have any of the other stuff the least you can do is carry the shit.


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## paor (Apr 21, 2008)

noahfecks said:


> If you came on an overnight trip with me and didn't have any group gear it's very unlikely I would ever invite you again. Your just another kyaker at that point.
> 
> 
> 
> Your next purchase should be a groover setup because if you don't have any of the other stuff the least you can do is carry the shit.



Ouch! Good thing I don’t intend to boat with you. By the way, I have a killer hand wash station (per the folks I boated with last year). Just looking for some advice. 


Thanks everyone else for the feedback. I’m torn between another dry box or a drop bag with camp table (that is the one thing no one had on our Rogue trip last summer). I nice shelter would be great too...I have a Noah’s Tarp, but it’s been rough getting it secure with high winds.


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## Fly By Night (Oct 31, 2018)

noahfecks said:


> If you came on an overnight trip with me and didn't have any group gear it's very unlikely I would ever invite you again. Your just another kyaker at that point.
> 
> 
> 
> Your next purchase should be a groover setup because if you don't have any of the other stuff the least you can do is carry the shit.



You sound like a feck in this post. I'd say the OP is well above a kayaker in that they can carry their own gear and food, not to mention carry group gear regardless of whose garage it lives in. Imo most people have enough stuff do do a multi day on their own it's figuring out how to get it down the river that's more or an issue.


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## raymo (Aug 10, 2008)

Ya, after you become an old fart boater, you collect enough crap to outfit a few boats, after that it's just Depends*, what become's important.


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## Fly By Night (Oct 31, 2018)

raymo said:


> Ya, after you become an old fart boater, you collect enough crap to outfit a few boats, after that it's just Depends*, that's important.


Do depends count as a wag bag?


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## raymo (Aug 10, 2008)

If wag bag's come in Super Absorbent, than yes.


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## CU_Mateo (Jul 22, 2016)

Here is how you figure out the next thing to purchase. 1) Commit to not renting gear. 2) Get invited on a trip or become a TL on your permit. 3) see what everyone has and purchase 1 big “something” per trip. 4) you go with people that have everything then you bring enough extra beer to get the permit holder and person who brought the a large portion of the gear Shit-faced!


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## zbaird (Oct 11, 2003)

After the Rapid Rung suggested above, a kitchen. Get a smallish dry box and then outfit it with a badass kitchen for 16. Not the stove or dutchies but everything else. No one likes to bring the kitchen and if that is the one thing you have dialed you'll be welcomed in any circle.


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## [email protected] (Jun 1, 2010)

I have avoided suggesting something until now. A certified super duper bear fence. It is not long now before being required on a lot of rivers IMO. Also a smart thing to have and use even if not required.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> I have avoided suggesting something until now. A certified super duper bear fence. It is not long now before being required on a lot of rivers IMO. Also a smart thing to have and use even if not required.


does it repel kayakers?


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## MontanaLaz (Feb 15, 2018)

Drop bag with a table for a lid/bench. There are never too many tables in a group. Other alternative is a groover. You can get by on just about any trip with marginal gear but not having a groover can preclude you from a lot of worthy single boat trips.


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## [email protected] (Jun 1, 2010)

MT4Runner said:


> does it repel kayakers?


Not sure but never saw any on our last Smith trip so I would say probably.

Not very good for bears either on our last trip. Set it up every night, filled it with food coolers as bait and never caught a single bear. Very disappointing to say the least.


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## MontanaLaz (Feb 15, 2018)

[email protected] said:


> Not sure but never saw any on our last Smith trip so I would say probably.
> 
> Not very good for bears either on our last trip. Set it up every night, filled it with food coolers as bait and never caught a single bear. Very disappointing to say the least.


We got two trip members with ours last time, one of them twice... It's nice to know that it is functional


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## GOTY2011 (Mar 18, 2018)

I agree with the kitchen suggestion, especially if you know how to cook and manage meals on the river. You'll gain friends and invites quickly if you keep everyone fed and happy.


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## rtsideup (Mar 29, 2009)

Second best to the kitchen idea:
Trash, recycling, groover. Nobody wants to deal with this shit, and you've already got the handwash station down. Once you figure out a good system for this, it's cheap, easy, and in demand.


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## zbaird (Oct 11, 2003)

This is true!

I got the recycle system dialed. I added a long strap to one of my JPW collapsible buckets. Glued a "belt loop" to the outside bottom center of another. (they have a tag loop on the bottom but I wanted it to keep the strap centered). 5 gallon bucket stack goes in the one with the long strap and the other is the cap. The long strap lets the whole thing expand as much as needed. The centered belt loop keeps the strap from slipping off Color coded buckets for plastic, aluminum, clean hand wash, dirty hand wash, whatever you want in the stack. The 2 collapsibles cinch together and keep everything from going astray. Each item can stay in its respective buckets to the next camp. By the time it gets to unwieldy ( more than about 2/3 full in any bucket) there should be rocket box space opened up for long term storage. On short small trips I have done the trash in a bucket as well as a groover in a gamma bucket with wags in the same stack if there weren't dedicated rockets for those. With 5-6 empty buckets, the collapsibles pretty much touch each other. When it it full up it is probably damn near 5' tall. Hand wash and soap can go right in the top bucket (clean hand wash) and they stay put with the lid. It does seem to be one of the last things down to the boats if hand washes and piss bucket are incorporated in the stack (Yes, I run 2 hand washes. Shitter and kitchen. Don't care if you just washed at the shitter; come to the kitchen, wash again!) so I rig it at the back of the boat pile, across the stern, under the king sling. Easy to throw under there and cinch the 2 straps tight.


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## raymo (Aug 10, 2008)

I purchased 5 Ozark heavy duty, water proof, top load bags, 40 in. tall and 24. in wide, to use as trash bags. There is actually an art to packing trash on a river trip, like zbaird was explaining, you can create your own cool style.My technique is to cut the bottom out of the tin cans and place the sharp lids inside the can and smash them flat. Beer cans all get smashed very flat and discarded into a separate, smaller waterproof bag. Papper items get burned or smashed flat. Plastic bottles get smashed without lids to break the spine of the plastic bottles. Than all that trash goes into the Ozark heavy duty bag. Than you can sit or stand on the bag, squishing all the air out like a trash compactor, roll the opening up and seal. One bag can hold three to four day's of trash depending on group size, if executed correctly. On the river you can use them as back support or what ever. When you get home empty them into trash can's, take them to a car wash and rinse them off, turn them inside-out and dry. I also pack a dozen very sharp steak knives for people to use, nothing worse than watching everyone trying to cut their steaks with a butter knives or plastic knives and flipping their steak on the ground. I bring two to three heavy duty can opener's that actually work, for group cooking. Heavy duty papper plates and bowl's always come in handy for food prep or what ever. Get yourself a stove, table, toilet, etc. it will be worth it in the long run.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

zbaird said:


> This is true!
> 
> I got the recycle system dialed. I added a long strap to one of my JPW collapsible buckets. ....Color coded buckets for plastic, aluminum, clean hand wash, dirty hand wash, whatever you want in the stack. The 2 collapsibles cinch together and keep everything from going astray.


That's awesome!




raymo said:


> My technique is to cut the bottom out of the tin cans and place the sharp lids inside the can and smash them flat. ....I bring two to three heavy duty can opener's that actually work, for group cooking.


The "new" style can openers that cut the side of the rim (smooth) instead of inside the rim (sharp) are way safer. Pampered Chef is one vendor of these openers.


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## MontanaLaz (Feb 15, 2018)

I splurged on the Cascade River Gear trash and recycling compression mesh bags and those are actually the second biggest request I get for group gear after my Partner stove and kitchen box. They're not cheap but they are bomber and I double duty them as winter storage for all of my random gear: Drop bags, straps, buckets, etc.

They stand up nice in camp and pack really well on the boat.


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## fcaraska (Oct 5, 2013)

The groomer guy always gets invited.


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## MontanaLaz (Feb 15, 2018)

fcaraska said:


> The groomer guy always gets invited.


I'm hoping you got autocorrected on this one 

I was having images of a chimpanzee picking lice off of another group member...


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## hooligan shmulligan (Jan 31, 2020)

Just because people in you group have the gear doesn't mean they want to take it every trip. No one wants to lug a fire pan around every trip. Rafted with a group that only a few of us had gear,shit got real old after a few trips of three of us bringing everything, when everyone thought they were really pulling there weight by having boats.
Sounds like you need a nice table. I'd build a bay with a drop bag that a table fit nicely over.
A kitchen box is nice but not something to half ass. I cringe when some one else brings the kitchen box then says things like "built the whole box for 20 dollars at the thrift store!". A kitchen box is a lot of work and until you've had one you don't really know how much work it is. My box is built for 25 people so its like the Ark of the Covenant. I've seen a lot of shit kitchen boxes but only a few nice ones and once you've had a nice one it's hard to go back. 
If you really want to build a kitchen box I'd add a bay and have a box with legs built.
A couple other group gear items are a nice wing, z drag and dish wash station.


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## paor (Apr 21, 2008)

That makes a lot of sense. I think I’m leaning towards drop bag and table, especially since no one ya d a nice one on our Rogue trip last summer. Thanks for the thoughtful input. I may also look I to getting a decent groover as well. 




hooligan shmulligan said:


> Just because people in you group have the gear doesn't mean they want to take it every trip. No one wants to lug a fire pan around every trip. Rafted with a group that only a few of us had gear,shit got real old after a few trips of three of us bringing everything, when everyone thought they were really pulling there weight by having boats.
> Sounds like you need a nice table. I'd build a bay with a drop bag that a table fit nicely over.
> A kitchen box is nice but not something to half ass. I cringe when some one else brings the kitchen box then says things like "built the whole box for 20 dollars at the thrift store!". A kitchen box is a lot of work and until you've had one you don't really know how much work it is. My box is built for 25 people so its like the Ark of the Covenant. I've seen a lot of shit kitchen boxes but only a few nice ones and once you've had a nice one it's hard to go back.
> If you really want to build a kitchen box I'd add a bay and have a box with legs built.
> A couple other group gear items are a nice wing, z drag and dish wash station.


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## ckirrk (Jul 13, 2013)

"built the whole box for 20 dollars at the thrift store!". A kitchen box is a lot of work and until you've had one you don't really know how much work it is.

I second the nice kitchen box comments. its worth taking the time to do it right. I don't like kitchen boxes on legs though. they tip in the wind and the leg slots take up room in the box. jmho


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## okieboater (Oct 19, 2004)

I have one of the early on white water worthy tables and it works well. also it is the lightest full size river tables I have found.


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