# Contest Launches to "Re-Engineer" Glen Canyon Dam, Rewild the Colorado River



## westwatercuban (May 19, 2021)

Might as well take down mead while they are at it. Two birds one stone…one step closer to restoring the Colorado back to her natural self..


----------



## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

gnarsify said:


> I think there are some engineers on this site. Looks like there is a contest to figure out how to remove Glen Canyon Dam.
> 
> Contest Launches to "Re-Engineer" Glen Canyon Dam, Rewild the Colorado River
> 
> ...


Interesting, but the names supporting this, well. Former, retired, living rivers.. Highly unlikely anything will come from it, but then I'm a sarcastic pessimist when it comes to battling the gubbermint..


----------



## upacreek (Mar 17, 2021)

lest us not forget Glen Canyon nearly removed itself in 1983.


----------



## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

Yeah, but the sonsabitches saved it with plywood sheets.. I was so unbelievably pissed.. The bureau of wreck the nation however was quite pleased with themselves... Bastards.. Seldom Seen Smith was rolling over in his grave, well actually he wasn't dead then yet, but if he was he would have!.

If you haven't yet, and likely most everybody here has, but go out and buy and read Kevin Fedarco's book, the Emerald Mile.. Very detailed and historical account of the year, highlighting the bureau of wreck the nation's, well let's say competent management skills...


----------



## westwatercuban (May 19, 2021)

I've shown that video to my students. Blows them away with how the damn barely survived. Great engineering topic. Still crazy to me how much damage the water made going through the gates.


----------



## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

westwatercuban said:


> I've shown that video to my students. Blows them away with how the damn barely survived. Great engineering topic. Still crazy to me how much damage the water made going through the gates.


And yet the damage was not enough..


----------



## richp (Feb 27, 2005)

On topic.

1. Dead pool about to be reached and predictably sustained.

2. Remove all salvageable equipment from the generation facility at the base of the dam, and demolish the structure.

3. Starting X number of feet below water surface, bore one or more Y diameter holes that penetrate the face of the dam to allow reservoir volume to decrease in a controlled manner. X and Y would be determined by pressure/volume calculations aimed at a predetermined CFS that will decline as the surface of the water approaches the level of the hole(s).

3. Spectacular horizontal fountains of water will ensue, but not under so much pressure as to dangerously erode the dam structure before the pressure declines.

4. As the surface of the water reaches the initial hole(s), repeat downward until reaching the base of the dam.

5. As the water level declines to within a predetermined distance of the existing hole(s), begin boring the next hole(s), so that the cumulative release volume is more or less constant.

6. Drill a final, larger, set of holes at the base that will allow passage of not less than 100k CFS in a high runoff year, as well as ensuring adequate sediment pass-through.

7. Budgetary limitations will prevent full removal, but a tunnel could be created through the base to allow the passage of watercraft.

Offered as a response to an engineering challenge, not that I believe the dam will ever be fully decommissioned and removed.

Rich Phillips


----------



## gnarsify (Oct 5, 2020)

richp said:


> On topic.
> 
> 1. Dead pool about to be reached and predictably sustained.
> 
> ...


I think you should enter the contest! My best idea was just go full Monkey Wrench Gang and blow it to smithereens.


----------



## Bootboy (Aug 25, 2020)

Dead pool means much more pleasant water temperature in the Grand Canyon. So Im all for that


----------



## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

gnarsify said:


> I think you should enter the contest! My best idea was just go full Monkey Wrench Gang and blow it to smithereens.


And here, I was thinking a small thermonuclear device, sunk at the base of the dam from what's left of the lake. Kaboom! Problem solved. And would probably be less ecologically damaging over the long run than the damn has been..


----------



## westwatercuban (May 19, 2021)

MNichols said:


> And here, I was thinking a small thermonuclear device, sunk at the base of the dam from what's left of the lake. Kaboom! Problem solved. And would probably be less psychologically damaging over the long run than the damn has been..


Lol I see nothing wrong with this. I approve.


----------



## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

This just in from GCRG, I'm a member so I am on their email distro list

*Calling All Grand Canyon and Colorado River Advocates! Heads up!!

The Glen Canyon Dam Adaptive Management Work Group (AMWG) is meeting virtually this week from 9:30 AM to 4:30 PM MST, on Wednesday and Thursday (Feb 9 & 10). * As you may know, the AMWG is the Federal Advisory Committee charged with providing recommendations to the Secretary of the Interior for the operation of Glen Canyon Dam. This virtual AMWG meeting is *OPEN TO THE PUBLIC*! Please check out the Feb AMWG agenda (you will find the webinar links at the top of each day's schedule). We want YOU to attend! 

There are many topics of interest on both meeting days, and we encourage you to attend as much of the AMWG meeting as you can (since it's virtual, you can log on and off whenever you want!). But we would like to draw special attention to the two agenda items immediately following lunch on Day 1 -- the Potential Water Year 2022 Experiments and the Exploration of the Potential FLAHG Charge (this pertains to the FLOW Ad Hoc -- critically important to future High Flow Events). The facilitated discussion about the LTEMP Process for Flow Experiments on Day 2 is also very important. 

*And most of all, there are opportunities for PUBLIC COMMENT on both days. The "public" is YOU! * This is your opportunity to tell AMWG stakeholders and the Secretary's Designee that you care deeply about Grand Canyon and impress upon them the critical importance of meeting the mandates of the Grand Canyon Protection Act of 1992: _"to protect, mitigate adverse impacts to and improve the values for which Grand Canyon National Park and Glen Canyon National Recreation Area were established." _

Climate change and long-term drought conditions are our new normal which requires more flexibility and a stronger adaptive management approach that includes all stakeholders in the decision-making process. We need to have more (not less!) science and more (not less!) experimentation to build on what we know so that the AMWG can make the best possible science-based recommendations to the Secretary of the Interior. The future health of the natural, cultural and recreational resources in Grand Canyon absolutely depends upon a proactive approach to these rapidly changing and very challenging conditions. 

Lastly, you may remember that there was no High Flow Experiment (HFE) last fall despite all sediment triggers being met (with the second highest amount of sand since recording began!). And you may have read the letter published in the Winter 2020/2021 BQR that stakeholders (including GCRG) sent to the Secretary's Designee for the Glen Canyon Dam Adaptive Management Program. The collaborative letter expressed our disappointment and grave concerns about the decision-making process and outlined the serious structural impediments we see within the GCDAMP. These concerns simply must be addressed. 

Thanks for your advocacy and interest! Let's be the best stewards we can be by getting informed and speaking up in defense of the Grand Canyon and our beloved Colorado River. Please share with anyone who might be interested!


----------



## spencerhenry (Jun 21, 2004)

Shit, while we are at it, why don't we remove all dams across the country???

We sure don't need the electrical power, don't need the water storage, and since we are whitewater boaters, do not need a fucking lake!

Also, I think we should just stop heating our homes, stop driving cars, stop going to work! Hell, lets all revert to being cavemen, but I wonder if there are enough caves??? But, I shouldnt be concerned with that, as most people couldn't survive one season without natural gas heat, grid power, their 2 or 3 cars, their cell phones, and all the other shit that has made modern man a fucking pussy!


----------



## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

spencerhenry said:


> Shit, while we are at it, why don't we remove all dams across the country???
> 
> We sure don't need the electrical power, don't need the water storage, and since we are whitewater boaters, do not need a fucking lake!
> 
> Also, I think we should just stop heating our homes, stop driving cars, stop going to work! Hell, lets all revert to being cavemen, but I wonder if there are enough caves??? But, I shouldnt be concerned with that, as most people couldn't survive one season without natural gas heat, grid power, their 2 or 3 cars, their cell phones, and all the other shit that has made modern man a fucking pussy!


I like your thinking Spencer.. I'm on board! However, about the cars, or at least trucks.. we need to get our big ass white water boats to the place where the fucking lakes used to be, so we can boat the rivers again. Past that, I'm all good... I own a backhoe, and have access to dynamite, we can make caves.. easy peasy.


----------



## westwatercuban (May 19, 2021)

I call dibs on outlaw cave


----------



## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

westwatercuban said:


> I call dibs on outlaw cave


The hike in and out is a bitch, and no, no West water permits for you LOL


----------



## Dangerfield (May 28, 2021)

Wishful thinking for the contest, more for public awareness/hype than an actual plan. Without engineering document/plans any proposal especially from lay persons would be quite un-realistic. In this day and age it's my guess that documents on structural integrity is a well guarded secret due to terrorist concerns.

There are vid's of the piece by piece removal then blasting of the Elwa Dam in WA State and a blow the plug out and quick drain of the Condit Dam on the Big White Salmon River also in WA.
condit dam removal - Yahoo Video Search Results


----------



## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

Dangerfield said:


> Without engineering document/plans any proposal especially from lay persons would be quite un-realistic.


Thermite... We don't need no steenkin plans.... Boom.. Quantity is the problem, not methodology.. Oh yeah, and the gendarmes hired to guard over it, cause it's so popular they need to protect it..

Or" Just one teeny little pre cision like earthquake Lord, right here right now"

Apologies to Abbey..


----------



## richp (Feb 27, 2005)

Any serious plan would shy away from catastrophic deconstruction -- as much as that might appeal to the Followers Of Ed -- due to the adverse downstream effects in Grand Canyon.

Years ago, on an old Yahoogroup, I wrote a sarcasm piece saying it could be done with directional drilling through the sandstone on either side of the dam. But the erosive power displayed in the bypass tubes during the near-overflow incident in the 80s suggests that method might progressively result in too voluminous a release -- with consequent, catastrophic downstream damage.

I know nobody is really treating this as a serious exercise, but it's sort of fun to let your mind explore it...

Rich


----------



## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

richp said:


> Any serious plan would shy away from catastrophic deconstruction -- as much as that might appeal to the Followers Of Ed -- due to the adverse downstream effects in Grand Canyon.
> 
> Years ago, on an old Yahoogroup, I wrote a sarcasm piece saying it could be done with directional drilling through the sandstone on either side of the dam. But the erosive power displayed in the bypass tubes during the near-overflow incident in the 80s suggests that method might progressively result in too voluminous a release -- with consequent, catastrophic downstream damage.
> 
> ...


What do ya mean not serious ?!?!?! Your plan would work, but mine is more spectacular.

Thermite I say, with some ANFO to make a big noise and move the concrete out of the way. Genius I say. Listen to me, I'll splain this world to ya'll.. Step right up to the biggest spectacle on earth!

We could put a wire mesh screen like they use to keep rocks from falling down the cliffs on the highway 1/2 mile above Lees and catch the big chunks before they hit the ferry.. Got her all figured out, and my plan is likely better than anything the government could come up with. With a nod to GW Heyduke, Seldom Seen, Doc and Abzug... Oh, and the Bishop Love.. Get the goddamn GEM in here, that's the ticket.. Got her all figured out.. GW would be proud of me!!

An EPIC high flow experiement to rebuild the beaches, epic amounts of sand would travel downriver, theu the screen and make huge football sized beaches for all to enjoy for years to come up and down the corridor, they wouldnt erode cause there'd be no tides. New and challenging rapids to tackle !! SO many benefits to my plan !!

We'd have "Glen Canyon Falls" at the damn site, a new class IV rapid for all to enjoy as they marvel at the newly unflooded Glen Canyon, the Hualapai tribe could build a glass walkway and charge the tourons $100 bucks a head to look at the most ecologically damaging engineering disaster of the last 300 years demise!! The Navajo could finally install their gondola to take the tourons to the top and look down on it. The outfitters could run boat tours from Lees to the bottom of what used to be the dam, like a niagra falls "maid of the mist tour" What an attraction, would offset the loss of income for the tribes and surrounding communities lost from houseboat folk dumping their toilet tanks in the lake, for jet skiers and speedboaters to play in !! Line the rim in solar panels after, hook them to the existing grid infrastructure, electricity worries all gone, it's Biden's dream!! Green power galore !! I bet the Sierra Club and Earth First would cream in their jeans at this..

A boon to the economy I say, and to the housing markets in garden spots like LA, New York and Chicago, no water for swimming pools and Kentucky bluegrass lawns, OR golfin egg chasin pastures in the desert, they would all move to Texass or one of the above mentioned "garden spots" in the US and live long and happy lives. Think of the boon to the economy. Colorado would put up fences with concertina wire and hire guards to keep the desert dwellers out, JOBS I say!! Could take care of the unemployment mess we're in now !! Just think.. Jobs will lift the economy, lower the highest inflation rate in the last 50 years, we'll all be rich$$$$$$$$

Texas has the energy thing under control, look at how well they did last winter!!! Yep, TX has it under control, they told the media so, must be true. And they would have workers to stop the influx of undocumented democratic voters from the Mexican border !!! Black Lives Matter could have massive riots, looting and burning, I mean send a meaningful message about it. The Biden administration could give the CDC another couple trillion dollars to monitor the fecal material in the vault toilets for the china virus, to stop the spread and all, ya know, cause he promised he'd rid the US of the china virus.. It IS the mid terms, surely Sleepy Joe, considering how much money our drooler in chief wants to spend, could be convinced of this. Maybe a free Bidenphone to the first 10,000 to visit ? Or a spanking new Electric Ford Pinto !! (complete with exploding batteries!)

Whoopee 

Sorry, I'm going thru a tough time here and needed an outlet, it would seem this inappropriate post was that. If it offends, I'll take it down and sit down and shut up before my surgery takes me down.

If you enjoyed it as was my intent, thanks, I had fun composing it, completely tongue in cheek, and I assure you that nothing was killed or harmed in the composition of the post, but a few electrons were severely inconvenienced..

With a huge nod to Edward Abbey.. "Why do they come to one of the most beautiful places in earth, and not get out of their cars?)
Desert Solitaire..


----------



## richp (Feb 27, 2005)

With a nod to that Nichols guy and his interesting ramblings, any serious plan would shy away from catastrophic deconstruction -- as much as that might appeal to the Followers Of Ed -- due to the adverse downstream effects in Grand Canyon.

Years ago, on an old Yahoogroup, I wrote a sarcasm piece saying it could be done with directional drilling through the sandstone on either side of the dam. But the erosive power displayed in the bypass tubes during the near-overflow incident in the 80s suggests that method might progressively result in too voluminous a release -- with consequent, catastrophic downstream damage.

I know nobody is really treating this as a serious exercise, but it's sort of fun to let your mind explore it, so rant on, Marshall, although you risk us getting moved to the Eddy...

Rich


----------



## Droboat (May 12, 2008)

And the low-tech award goes to:

A book authored by an engineer that combines upstream triggering event with a Dominyo effect that is worthy of more engineering and hydrogeomorphological imagination.









Wet Desert: Tracking Down a Terrorist on the Colorado River


Wet Desert: Tracking Down a Terrorist on the Colorado River, by Gary Hansen, is a book published in 2007 that deals with a plot by an Eco-Terrorist to bring down the Glen Canyon Dam in the United States, and by the effort by a manager of the …




tvtropes.org












Wet Desert, a Novel: Gary Hansen: 9780979352102: Amazon.com: Books


Wet Desert, a Novel [Gary Hansen] on Amazon.com. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. Wet Desert, a Novel



www.amazon.com


----------



## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

Looks like a page turner to me, on my reading list if I can find it.


----------



## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

spencerhenry said:


> Shit, while we are at it, why don't we remove all dams across the country???
> 
> We sure don't need the electrical power, don't need the water storage, and since we are whitewater boaters, do not need a fucking lake!
> 
> Also, I think we should just stop heating our homes, stop driving cars, stop going to work! Hell, lets all revert to being cavemen, but I wonder if there are enough caves??? But, I shouldnt be concerned with that, as most people couldn't survive one season without natural gas heat, grid power, their 2 or 3 cars, their cell phones, and all the other shit that has made modern man a fucking pussy!


I'm gonna start a methane-producing shuttle service.


----------



## 2milehighspike (Jul 10, 2019)

My brother worked for the BLM and he was on the dam decommissioning panel and was involved in the removal of many of the dams in the NW. He was also involved in the original study concerning the removal of Glen Canyon Dam. The largest obstacle wasn‘t the actual destruction but how to extract and dispose of the concrete. They soon realized that removal wasn’t possible, but a passage blasted under it for natural flow to resume Was. The damn dam itself will be there for eternity I’m afraid.


----------



## Daryl (Apr 16, 2013)

If the dams all came down wouldn't the flow drop so low there'd be no rafting from July-May during normal years?

Not to mention all the diversions that feed municipal reservoirs (drinking water), irrigation ditches and provide reliable water sources to much of the Southwest?


----------



## xileff (May 27, 2009)

Daryl said:


> Not to mention all the diversions that feed municipal reservoirs (drinking water), irrigation ditches and provide reliable water sources to much of the Southwest?


Irrigation that largely goes to unnecessary water-pig crops like alfalfa and suburban lawns? 

We are rapidly reaching the point that even these dams can’t prevent a major change to business-as-usual. If taking out the dams accelerates that process, it’s only going to make it less painful than it would be with another 20 years of expanded development in the arid SW. 

If this whole discussion does nothing but derail that delusional Utard pipeline project, it will be worth it…even if we have to use smaller boats for the reduced summer flows.


----------



## elreydelrio (Jan 6, 2008)

The way I’ve always thought would be best would be by launching torpedos from underneath a houseboat, then riding the massive wave in the houseboat.


----------



## Pilgrim (Aug 24, 2004)

gnarsify said:


> I think there are some engineers on this site. Looks like there is a contest to figure out how to remove Glen Canyon Dam.
> 
> Contest Launches to "Re-Engineer" Glen Canyon Dam, Rewild the Colorado River
> 
> ...


I can rewild the hell out of that. It is called removal! And I am a Professional Engineer in the State of Colorado


----------



## Pilgrim (Aug 24, 2004)

MNichols said:


> This just in from GCRG, I'm a member so I am on their email distro list
> 
> *Calling All Grand Canyon and Colorado River Advocates! Heads up!!
> 
> ...


I wish I knew about this in advance. The high flow release don't work because.. its a dam....Yes there are sediment inputs downstream but it pails in comparison to the tributary are upstream of the Dam.


----------



## Pilgrim (Aug 24, 2004)

MNichols said:


> This just in from GCRG, I'm a member so I am on their email distro list
> 
> *Calling All Grand Canyon and Colorado River Advocates! Heads up!!
> 
> ...


How do I get involved with the working group?


----------



## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

xileff said:


> Irrigation that largely goes to unnecessary water-pig crops like alfalfa and suburban lawns?
> 
> We are rapidly reaching the point that even these dams can’t prevent a major change to business-as-usual. If taking out the dams accelerates that process, it’s only going to make it less painful than it would be with another 20 years of expanded development in the arid SW.
> 
> If this whole discussion does nothing but derail that delusional Utard pipeline project, it will be worth it…even if we have to use smaller boats for the reduced summer flows.


Don't forget swimming pools, and golfin egg chasin pastures. The idle rich can't live without them apparently, especially in the desert.

article attached

"Development of Superstition Vistas may have begun, but questions about water supplies loom over the desert landscape. Even Brookfield Residential executives cite the lack of water as a problem standing in the way of developing the remaining roughly 270 square miles of Superstition Vistas."

More houses in the desert. I simply can't believe this is moving forward.. But then it's all about money for the developers, and every other interest. 
Sort of a fuck you sorta attitude, we're doing it anyway, we know the downsides, and we don't care. There's money to be made, full steam ahead, onward thru the fog.. 

Should make a Firesign theater skit out of it.


----------



## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

Pilgrim said:


> How do I get involved with the working group?


Here's some intel on how you can start down that path.

*Mailing Address:* 
Grand Canyon River Guides, Inc.
P.O Box 1934
Flagstaff, AZ 86002

*Street Address:*
Grand Canyon River Guides, Inc.
515 W Birch (between Park and Bonito)
Flagstaff, AZ 86001
Phone: 928-773-1075
Fax: 928-773-8523
Email: [email protected]
Web: www.gcrg.org

I would shoot Lynn Hamilton, the executive director of GCRG a email / letter /call about it, she's an incredible woman and likely is tuned into the pulse of the how's, why's and who to contact about getting involved. 

I used to have her direct email, but windows did what windows does and wiped 5TB of data in an epic crash, I went to Linux and have been trying to read the drives, but so far there's been no joy.. It appears they are totally corrupted, the MBR can't identify the LBA or sectors in any way.. Fu*king windows... Why everyone doesn't switch to Linux and continues to support Gates and Redmond..... I digress.

Linda Jalbert would be another resource, she was GCRA Rec Planner for years, involved in the LTEMP and worked on the CRMP along with Steve Sullivan, retired now. She's now the past president of the River Management Society, and very active, passionate and involved in the river world. Another super gal and good friend. I don't have her work address, but her personal is [email protected] , I'm sure she wouldn't mind me posting here on this important matter. 

Thanks for being interested and wanting to help. I'm 62 today, and while I had much passion for these things in the past when I was on the GCPBA board during the lawsuit, I fear that my passion, along with my ability to devote time and bandwidth to things, well I'll step aside and let those that still have it wave the flag these days. 
MS in ME from NC State here. 

As John Wayne would say, "well, thaaanks a lot Pilgrim"


----------



## Acheron (Apr 5, 2021)

I took this seriously and sent it to an civil engineer and water engineer who I know (they're a couple, their kids aren't getting away with anything!). Thanks for posting it.


----------



## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

MNichols said:


> I'm 62 today


Happy Birthday!


----------



## westwatercuban (May 19, 2021)

MNichols said:


> Don't forget swimming pools, and golfin egg chasin pastures. The idle rich can't live without them apparently, especially in the desert.
> 
> article attached
> 
> ...


When the land is literally worth nothing they get it for pennies on the dollar. They don't care about hooking up utilities because that's an issue for the owners and operators of the infrastructure. What always blows my mind is how idiots who have nothing better to do than to buy or move to these locations...literally what is the benefit?

IF you think that the economy is bad now........just wait till all of those people have to move because there is no water for them to consume....whos going to buy their homes and land?? Well, the government will bail them all out...










Don't worry guys...My generation and my great-grandkids kids will pay off the tab...


Oh and happy birthday!!!


----------



## jbolson (Apr 6, 2005)

I saw a presentation probably 20 years ago by some academic types on changes in the Grand Canyon post dam. Sure wish I had a copy, but they had a lot of before/after photos that showed the Grand Canyon had 'greened' a lot and supported that with studies on wild life that had also increased a lot. They basically said that the relatively steady flow and lack of floods allowed the riparian zone to expand greatly (the annual floods rip it out). Another thing they said was that the Grand formerly was a warm water fishery with mostly junk fish (like the humpback chubb). After the dam, the water became quite cold and it was stocked with trout. We all know the truth of the water temperature and the fish. They also said that if the dam was removed, all the larger warm water predator fish (I think I remember bass, but I'm no fish expert) would come upstream from Lake Mead and eat all the trout. They would also eat all the remaining humpback chubb and other suckers.

It was quite convincing. Can others support or refute this?


----------



## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

jbolson said:


> I saw a presentation probably 20 years ago by some academic types on changes in the Grand Canyon post dam. Sure wish I had a copy, but they had a lot of before/after photos that showed the Grand Canyon had 'greened' a lot and supported that with studies on wild life that had also increased a lot. They basically said that the relatively steady flow and lack of floods allowed the riparian zone to expand greatly (the annual floods rip it out). Another thing they said was that the Grand formerly was a warm water fishery with mostly junk fish (like the humpback chubb). After the dam, the water became quite cold and it was stocked with trout. We all know the truth of the water temperature and the fish. They also said that if the dam was removed, all the larger warm water predator fish (I think I remember bass, but I'm no fish expert) would come upstream from Lake Mead and eat all the trout. They would also eat all the remaining humpback chubb and other suckers.
> 
> It was quite convincing. Can others support or refute this?


Hmmmm.. 









Types Of Species In Glen Canyon National Recreation Area


To know more about the types of species of fishes available in Glen Canyon National Recreation Area. For details, call Lake Powell Guide Services 801-631-0158.




lakepowellguideservices.com





The largemouth bass is an opportunistic feeder, which means that it will consume anything whenever it has a chance. If it fits in its mouth, it will attempt to eat it, including smaller bass. They also ambush predators and usually lie beside or within a cover, such as weeds or rocks waiting for prey to swim within strike range. Being incredibly strong for their size, they effortlessly overpower almost everything they get their jaws around, although they do not have sharp teeth.








What Does Largemouth Bass Eat? 10 Surprising Baits That Work Every Time


The largemouth bass is the most popular game fish in the USA and one of the most fished species worldwide.




www.coopunits.org





Not a fish squeezer, but have rowed a lot of them down the river.. 

Electroshocking is cool to watch, and they assured me it doesn't hurt the tastiness of the fish LOL


----------



## weekendalpinist (Jul 16, 2012)

As a PE who deals with moderately large slurry flows (small in comparison to the Colorado), this is a fascinating problem. Current lake level is about 3530', and 25% of water capacity. Bottom level for existing intakes is about 3490'. Underwater deconstruction of the existing intakes could allow draining through the existing turbines down to the 3375' level. From there it's just a 200' waterfall, and probably less than 10% capacity left. Still working on that part.


----------



## Wallrat (Jan 19, 2021)

Dangerfield said:


> Wishful thinking for the contest, more for public awareness/hype than an actual plan. Without engineering document/plans any proposal especially from lay persons would be quite un-realistic. In this day and age it's my guess that documents on structural integrity is a well guarded secret due to terrorist concerns.
> 
> There are vid's of the piece by piece removal then blasting of the Elwa Dam in WA State and a blow the plug out and quick drain of the Condit Dam on the Big White Salmon River also in WA.
> condit dam removal - Yahoo Video Search Results


My buddy Hayduke told me he has an idea that’ll fix it right-quick. BTW, he’s looking to rent a houseboat.


----------



## weekendalpinist (Jul 16, 2012)

BOR is now studying adding turbines on the outlets of the bypass pipes, to be able to effectively lower the level for power generation from 3490' to about 3375'. At that point there would be less than 10% capacity left in the lake and it's about 68 miles long instead of 185.








Can the Glen Canyon Dam be modified to continue producing power if drought continues?


As the Colorado River basin continues to suffer from the worst twenty-year period of drought in at least 1,200 years, the Bureau of Reclamation is studying potential modifications to Glen Canyon Dam that could allow continued hydropower production despite rapidly dropping reservoir levels. The...




www.sltrib.com


----------



## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

weekendalpinist said:


> BOR is now studying adding turbines on the outlets of the bypass pipes, to be able to effectively lower the level for power generation from 3490' to about 3375'. At that point there would be less than 10% capacity left in the lake and it's about 68 miles long instead of 185.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Article headline should read, "Can the Glen Canyon dam be modified to continue destroying the fragile ecosystem in Grand canyon during the drought"

“We’re entering studies to look at what we can do to ensure we can continue to generate power at the dam and still meet our water obligations under the Colorado River Compact,”

Not one word about the study doing anything to protect Grand Canyon from the effects of what the BOR does.. Not a peep, I'll bet it's not even on their radar.


----------



## westwatercuban (May 19, 2021)

MNichols said:


> Article headline should read, "Can the Glen Canyon dam be modified to continue destroying the fragile ecosystem in Grand canyon during the drought"
> 
> “We’re entering studies to look at what we can do to ensure we can continue to generate power at the dam and still meet our water obligations under the Colorado River Compact,”
> 
> Not one word about the study doing anything to protect Grand Canyon from the effects of what the BOR does.. Not a peep, I'll bet it's not even on their radar.


Okay so what if someone just monkeywrenches this whole thing.


----------



## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

westwatercuban said:


> Okay so what if someone just monkeywrenches this whole thing.


The BOR is working hard on that right now. The article says they will start in earnest, with a 2 million dollar budget as soon as April or May.. 

Oh, you mean someone sabatoging he BOR !!! Well, I'm betting they will have tons of security, National Guard etc to guard against "Mischief" ...


----------



## westwatercuban (May 19, 2021)

MNichols said:


> The BOR is working hard on that right now. The article says they will start in earnest, with a 2 million dollar budget as soon as April or May..
> 
> Oh, you mean someone sabatoging he BOR !!! Well, I'm betting they will have tons of security, National Guard etc to guard against "Mischief" ...


National guard ain’t got nothing on a houseboat magically making its way over there with some boom boom juice. Wouldn’t see it coming haha just smile and wave.


----------



## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

westwatercuban said:


> National guard ain’t got nothing on a houseboat magically making its way over there with some boom boom juice. Wouldn’t see it coming haha just smile and wave.


In a perfect world my friend... Am not sure a houseboat full of ANFO would be enough to do the job, better get yourself a whole fleet of them. With the drought, I bet there are plenty to rent...


----------



## Bootboy (Aug 25, 2020)

Maybe cool it with the fed-posting. Talk of ANFO may get us on a list, or even a visit

DHS takes this shit really seriously. 

I’ve worked professionally with energetics before and saying the wrong thing can get your ass into a world of trouble.


----------



## weekendalpinist (Jul 16, 2012)

MNichols said:


> In a perfect world my friend... Am not sure a houseboat full of ANFO would be enough to do the job, better get yourself a whole fleet of them. With the drought, I bet there are plenty to rent...


The dam is still about 200' thick at the 200' depth level. Gonna need a bigger boat.


----------



## richp (Feb 27, 2005)

I emphatically urge the quenching of any discussion of violent action -- whether said in jest or just theoretically. 

Sensitivities these days are far different than they were when Ed Abbey was scribbling. And I'm fairly sure no contributors here -- nor the owners/administrators -- want to have even the slightest bit of interaction with the authorities.

Rich


----------



## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

In westwatercuban's defense the thread WAS about re-engineering the dam.. 

But points well taken.


----------



## richp (Feb 27, 2005)

Well when the feds' computers scrape through the internet and find this thread, does anyone here actually know what the evaluative process is, or the follow-up policy?

Write me off as mildly paranoid (but reality oriented). Put me down as urging full abandonment and disavowal of even vague hints of anything that could be even remotely construed the wrong way in this potentially sensitive topical area.

Yeah, I know all about the First Amendment. But I don't even want to be on even the remote fringes of a test of its boundaries.

Rich


----------



## westwatercuban (May 19, 2021)

Fully agree with you. As much as we would all love to see her fall. The best course of action is not in a violent way. Hopefully, some engineer figures out a way to solve the problem.


----------



## weekendalpinist (Jul 16, 2012)

Absolutely if it happens it will be done in a controlled fashion. Which, sadly, won't involve either bunker busters or torpedos. Standard tunnelling techniques of drilling and blasting seem likely at some point. Not as satisfying visually, but effective. When it's done it would be nice to be able to get a boat through there.


----------

