# Which packraft type is smoothest?



## TboneCooper (Jul 8, 2019)

May I suggest a sensory deprivation tank? Or a pool? If this isn't a troll I will say:


Solo rafting or kayaking isn't recommended for even very experienced folks, let alone someone that has serious vertigo issues.
Even easy water can be dangerous, especially alone.
No rafting is going to be stable, unless you are on flat water. Maybe try a lake?
I can relate to motion sickness. As much as I love the idea of flying, I can't get in a small (single engine) plane for more than half an hour without puking. I blame it on my bodies lack of trust of my brain after too many psychedelics when I was a teenager.


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## smoothsail (Mar 28, 2020)

TboneCooper said:


> May I suggest a sensory deprivation tank? Or a pool? If this isn't a troll I will say:
> 
> 
> Solo rafting or kayaking isn't recommended for even very experienced folks, let alone someone that has serious vertigo issues.
> ...


Did you actually read my post? I never said I had serious issues and I'm aware that rafts aren't 100% stable, all I asked was which boat shape/type has less up and down movement and which one has the least amount of movement overall.

Also, I'm just doing my part in distancing from other people  (that and I would much rather go alone at my own pace, wherever and whenever most convienient for me).


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## caverdan (Aug 27, 2004)

I'll bite. I'd say a big tube cataraft would be a smoother ride over a raft because of the stiff frame. A snout rig would be even smoother. Bigger is better.

Butt... If you want the best all around boat on the river......Avon.....hands down....is the only boat to float.


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## griz (Sep 19, 2005)

Go big. Go hypalon. 

A big, hypalon raft will absorb and conform to the waves better than rafts of made of stiffer materials.


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## GeoRon (Jun 24, 2015)

griz said:


> Go big. Go hypalon.
> 
> A big, hypalon raft will absorb and conform to the waves better than rafts of made of stiffer materials.


griz has a very good recommendation. A slightly under inflated hypalon boat will absorb a lot of energy. It is almost comical to watch one going down the MF Salmon at low water when they are intentionally under inflated to decrease hanging up by reducing draft and maximize flotation surface area.


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## carvedog (May 11, 2005)

Which raft type is smoothest? 

The one that I am on the oars.....


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## Blade&Shaft (May 23, 2009)

smoothsail said:


> Did you actually read my post? I never said I had serious issues and I'm aware that rafts aren't 100% stable, all I asked was which boat shape/type has less up and down movement and which one has the least amount of movement overall.
> 
> Also, I'm just doing my part in distancing from other people  (that and I would much rather go alone at my own pace, wherever and whenever most convienient for me).


You're an asshole


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

smoothsail said:


> Did you actually read my post? I never said I had serious issues and I'm aware that rafts aren't 100% stable, all I asked was which boat shape/type has less up and down movement and which one has the least amount of movement overall.
> 
> Also, I'm just doing my part in distancing from other people  (that and I would much rather go alone at my own pace, wherever and whenever most convienient for me).





Blade&Shaft said:


> You're an asshole


I can't really disagree! TBoneCooper's post even commiserated that they share sensory/motion issues.

OP, you asked a question on a forum where most people specifically enjoy the movement of the water in a whitewater river and have a lot of experience in a multitude of craft. 



I am sorry for your vertigo issues, but no craft will eliminate the up/down gyration of waves that exist as a very condition of moving rivers. You would be better off asking, "what rivers have pretty scenery and mild to no rapids in xxx area?"

Pack rafts generally have low volume relative to their capacity. They need to be fairly well inflated to maintain their structure and buoyancy. I'd agree with the other users that hypalon boats do have less motion than other boats, but don't eliminate it entirely.


And solo may be a fun idea for hiking, but is not recommended for moving water. maybe try sea kayaking?


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## smoothsail (Mar 28, 2020)

Blade&Shaft said:


> You're an asshole


You're the asshole with your sarcastic comment about the sensory deprivation tank. I don't think my post was unreasonable, all I asked for was a comparison between different types of boats. If you think it sounds like trolling, then maybe you spend too much time on the internet.

It looks like Avon shaped rafts are the only suggestions here that are packable into a small carry bag, so I might go with that.


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## azpowell (Aug 14, 2014)

i would suggest you stay away from rave sports 20' bongo, super bouncy....


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

Blade&Shaft said:


> You're an asshole.





TboneCooper said:


> May I suggest a sensory deprivation tank? Or a pool?
> 
> I can relate to motion sickness. As much as I love the idea of flying, I can't get in a small (single engine) plane for more than half an hour without puking.







smoothsail said:


> You're the asshole with your sarcastic comment about the sensory deprivation tank.



You're not even mad at the right person!  And you're mad at a person who shares motion issues. Chill out dude!
Maybe you should spend _more_ time on the internet.






> It looks like Avon shaped rafts are the only suggestions here that are packable into a small carry bag, so I might go with that.


Awesome. Look for the Avon Scout 12'. It was one of their most popular models.

Or have Dave Scadden build you a custom boat.


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## smoothsail (Mar 28, 2020)

MT4Runner said:


> You're not even mad at the right person!  And you're mad at a person who shares motion issues. Chill out dude!
> Maybe you should spend _more_ time on the internet.


Ok, I just caught that. But how am I an asshole though? I don't think my original post was unreasonable or troll-ish that it would warrant such a response.


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## Blade&Shaft (May 23, 2009)

Ok Mr. 3 posts....

We all spend too much time on the internet dumbass... there's this thing going on right now not sure if you've heard of it.


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## smoothsail (Mar 28, 2020)

Blade&Shaft said:


> Ok Mr. 3 posts....
> 
> We all spend too much time on the internet dumbass... there's this thing going on right now not sure if you've heard of it.


No, I meant before the thing started. You have to have mentality of a 12-year old who's hobby is arguing with strangers on the internet, to resort to name-calling over something like this.


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## NoCo (Jul 21, 2009)

Im an asshole


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## rtsideup (Mar 29, 2009)

I'm obviously really bored to me chiming in on this thread.
Sounds like you want something small? I'd look at something like this https://www.jpwinc.com/product/cutthroat-1/?v=89d269ea9f2e
A cat style design is going to cut through waves rather than going up and over them. Less rocker the better for you.
And I agree, the internet version of you is an asshole.


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## NoCo (Jul 21, 2009)

At least my wife said i was. Quarantine is going great!


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

smoothsail said:


> No, I meant before the thing started. You have to have mentality of a 12-year old who's hobby is arguing with strangers on the internet, to resort to name-calling over something like this.


Step away from the meth pipe, tiger boi.

You’re a bitch, Carole Baskin.


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## villagelightsmith (Feb 17, 2016)

Yeah, I too have severe, occasional vertigo. Many moons ago, I was kicked in the head by a mule, (yes!) and the little calcium crystals in the inner ear were loosed from their moorings. When they float around and tickle the little hairs of the cochlear tubules, I ricochet between buildings on my own street. No fun! Driving, riding bikes, even walking are "out" until I can get them settled again. That is why I don't fly a plane.
When they are behaving, I really enjoy a canoe. Get some instruction. 
For laid back, easy drifting, a framed raft or a drift boat are sweet. But the expense of getting started can be high. Best to go with someone else to see how you like it. I'm an old coot, so lazy rivers are often to my liking. Eh, but so are the Illinois and the Colorado. I really like to take other people, and am often found sprawled out on my Paco-Pad atop the gear, with my hat pulled down over my eyes and some eager youngster on the oars of my raft. There are some privileges of age, giving and ownership, and I shamelessly enjoy them.


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## raymo (Aug 10, 2008)

*Good times before internet.*

One of my X wives, apparently she was pissed at me and said your an asshole and through a Bible at me, well I cought the Bible and straighten all the pages back up that flutter in the air, than put it back on the tablet. She screamed something else and stomped into the bedroom, I thought to myself yes, a hot angry woman in the bedroom, this could be fun. When I walked into the bedroom I was greeted with this loud bang, huge flash and the smell of gun smoke, I could not shit my pants because my ass puckered to tight. She miss and hit my brand new TV I just bought the day before, that had a place to insert a VCR under the screen, it was a fancy one for the time. It started sparking and smoking, the VCR tape I had in it started spitting out, about 100 ft of it. The bullet had to of went between my arm and body. Someone up stairs was looking out for me for sure(I'm think Bible). Well I took the pistol away from her and bottle of gin, took the TV outside to the curb by the trash can because it was stinking up the bedroom. When I woke up the next day and look outside, the TV was gone. I still wonder to this day, where that TV went to.


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## TboneCooper (Jul 8, 2019)

Well this devolved. I was trying to write a mildly tongue in cheek response to the original query, which actually seems quite silly. A person with no experience on whitewater is asking if a packraft or hard shell kayak would be better to "just lay-back and float" solo because any slight wave would be extremely displeasing. Not to mention that we are stretched incredibly thin right now for medical resources and encouraging a person to float down a river by themselves seems beyond irresponsible for a potential rescue situation. So for my actual suggestion:




 Buy the most expensive USA made hypalon raft and outfit it with a custom frame from DRE or Recretec, Canyon coolers to keep all your food in, Stiches 'N Stuff frame drop bags, and order all your USA made accessories from a store like Andy and Bax or Cascadia River Gear.
If you do that you will be guaranteed to have a non-splashy amazing float. You should also probably donate a couple hundred $ to American Whitewater and your local SAR team as that will make sure you get help first if you ever find yourself in over your head.


In all seriousness, you should probably see if you could get on a trip when the virus blows over (lets hope it does!) on a river like the John Day or the Grande Ronde on someone else's boat. Paddling alone as a beginner, or to be honest almost anyone, is really irresponsible and endangering of other folks in case of a rescue situation. It is an order of magnitude greater in risk than solo hiking.


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## Blade&Shaft (May 23, 2009)

The RP's gotta be a troll. The question is too retarded not to be.

Good thread for boring, lazy days.


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## matt man (Dec 23, 2011)

Good story, Raymo!! 
Glad yer not dead.
“hot angry woman in the bead room, this could be fun!” Exactly what I would have been thinking, to. 
Brings new meaning to the saying, “ this woman’s gonna be the death of me!”


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## matt man (Dec 23, 2011)

Yes, the OP should just wait until, if, the current crisis ends, and get on the water with people that have some river experience. 
SAR does not need to be rescuing anybody right now, and hospitals do not need anymore patients.


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## captishmael (Feb 8, 2008)

A Cataraft. The bigger the better, but even a 14' cat is smooth compared to a round boat.


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## caverdan (Aug 27, 2004)

smoothsail said:


> Hi everyone. I'm trying to go solo pack rafting or kayaking down a smooth river, but I have vertigo and bouncing on even the smallest waves would make it less enjoyable. It seems like a raft would be more stable from side to side motion but more bouncy up and down as oppose to a kayak. Is that true? I just want to lay back and float down the river with minimal movement. Any input would be appreciated.


I think we are all missing the OP's point....including me. He wants to pack in a raft or Kayak to a class one river. Boats like we are all talking about are not back packable. 

To the OP....yes a raft would be more stable than a kayak or ducky. Is this a one time use or are you planning to do it more often? If it is a one time use, I'd look at the cheaper brands sold at Walmart or on line that are bail bucket boats and cost in the $100.00 range. Check the weight in the specs. before you buy so you know how much you have to carry. The bigger the wider the better. here is a link to what I'm talking about.
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Intex-Ex...McEMDNyxJkVCK-AaoEObQBqDwtxUazooaAnzPEALw_wcB


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## Idaho_ski_bum (Jun 22, 2018)

raymo said:


> One of my X wives, apparently she was pissed at me and said your an asshole and through a Bible at me, well I cought the Bible and straighten all the pages back up that flutter in the air, than put it back on the tablet. She screamed something else and stomped into the bedroom, I thought to myself yes, a hot angry woman in the bedroom, this could be fun. When I walked into the bedroom I was greeted with this loud bang, huge flash and the smell of gun smoke, I could not shit my pants because my ass puckered to tight. She miss and hit my brand new TV I just bought the day before, that had a place to insert a VCR under the screen, it was a fancy one for the time. It started sparking and smoking, the VCR tape I had in it started spitting out, about 100 ft of it. The bullet had to of went between my arm and body. Someone up stairs was looking out for me for sure(I'm think Bible). Well I took the pistol away from her and bottle of gin, took the TV outside to the curb by the trash can because it was stinking up the bedroom. When I woke up the next day and look outside, the TV was gone. I still wonder to this day, where that TV went to.


This is SO Bukowski!

A Radio With Guts

it was on the 2nd floor on Coronado Street
I used to get drunk
and throw the radio through the window
while it was playing, and, of course,
it would break the glass in the window
and the radio would sit there on the roof
still playing
and I'd tell my woman,
"Ah, what a marvelous radio!"
the next morning I'd take the window
off the hinges
and carry it down the street
to the glass man
who would put in another pane.
I kept throwing that radio through the window
each time I got drunk
and it would sit there on the roof
still playing-
a magic radio
a radio with guts,
and each morning I'd take the window
back to the glass man.
I don't remember how it ended exactly
though I do remember
we finally moved out.
there was a woman downstairs who worked in
the garden in her bathing suit,
she really dug with that trowel
and she put her behind up in the air
and I used to sit in the window
and watch the sun shine all over that thing
while the music played.


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## raymo (Aug 10, 2008)

*Pre-existing-condition...*



Idaho_ski_bum said:


> This is SO Bukowski!
> 
> A Radio With Guts
> 
> ...


I'm sure this is a pre-existing-condition for me, it should be covered under my health plan. I will be better in a few days, right?


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## smoothsail (Mar 28, 2020)

caverdan said:


> I think we are all missing the OP's point....including me. He wants to pack in a raft or Kayak to a class one river. Boats like we are all talking about are not back packable.
> 
> To the OP....yes a raft would be more stable than a kayak or ducky. Is this a one time use or are you planning to do it more often? If it is a one time use, I'd look at the cheaper brands sold at Walmart or on line that are bail bucket boats and cost in the $100.00 range. Check the weight in the specs. before you buy so you know how much you have to carry. The bigger the wider the better. here is a link to what I'm talking about.
> https://www.walmart.com/ip/Intex-Ex...McEMDNyxJkVCK-AaoEObQBqDwtxUazooaAnzPEALw_wcB


Yes! That's exactly the type of rafts I've been looking at. Now I'm just waiting until the water gets warmer. It's still around 60 degrees.

There are adventure tubing companies that have people float down rocky and wave filled rivers that are way more dangerous than where I'm planning to go. On a slow day, I've seen a lot of those tubers floating alone with nobody around except distant hikers/drivers. I get that there is a risk going on the water, but I don't see how rafting on flat waters is any more dangerous than tubing on white water.


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## caverdan (Aug 27, 2004)

You'll be fine as long as you wear a life jacket. Enjoy the ride.


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