# Class V rafting gear



## raftus (Jul 20, 2005)

There was a post a couple of days ago about a paddling life article on Mark, but I can't' find it now. Here is the link:

Paddling Life magazine -- for Paddling, Sea Kayaking, Whitewater Rafting, Kayaking, Canoeing, Kayak Fishing, Outrigger Canoe, Rec Boats and Touring, plus boating Blogs, Photos and News Clearinghouse.

A few things I though were interesting:

He has grab straps that trail freely in the water on the front/back of his tubes. 

He runs pins and clips, not oarlocks. I know this gets debated a lot, but for serious whitewater the reduced time to remount a oar with pins and clips seems like the most important factor. And you can do it with one hand on the oar handle, I usually have to use two hands with open oar locks to get the oar back in if it gets out of the lock.

He carries a spare air scuba tank in his life jacket, but how does he deploy/use it? Spare air makes a model that mounts into a neoprene vest, but it is lower capacity than the one the article mentions. Seems like a decent way to reduce flush drowning possibilities.

He mentions the Aire Wave Destroyer, but all the photos look like a Sotar cat. And the Wave Destroyer isn't even listed on Aire's website anymore?

Climbing cams, ie Friends. I have never thought of using cams in this way, but in a gorged out section this could be really slick. Most people won't ever need them, but a cool use anyway. Friend (climbing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

The slingshot was a surprise, how hard is it to kill a rabbit or a squirrel with one of those? I would have thought that emergency food rations would be easier and much more of a sure thing.


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## COUNT (Jul 5, 2005)

Hey Sean, your wikipedia link to "friends" didn't work and since I don't have any, I didn't know what they were.

COUNT


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## raftus (Jul 20, 2005)

COUNT said:


> Hey Sean, your wikipedia link to "friends" didn't work and since I don't have any, I didn't know what they were.
> 
> COUNT


LOL. 

It is a spring loaded camming device. Maybe this link will work:
Spring-loaded camming device - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Otherwise try this:

Camalot - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Did the original post get moved?


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## COUNT (Jul 5, 2005)

raftus said:


> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camalots
> Did the original post get moved?


Not sure. I hadn't heard the term friend before and thought maybe it was some special kind of cam.


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## Dave Frank (Oct 14, 2003)

If you want to run class V more safely, just get a creek boat.

On a more serious note, seems like the main benefit of a pins and clips set up comes from the plastic retainer loop or oar keeper that most p&c rigs have. Any reason that wouldn't be compatible with oar locks? They are pretty easy to make out of old kayaks too. I might look at making a set. Seems like it should work well.


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## Gtwo (Apr 24, 2007)

COUNT said:


> Not sure. I hadn't heard the term friend before and thought maybe it was some special kind of cam.


It looks like a TCU to me...


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## Smokey Carter (Aug 31, 2005)

Raftus: Good questions. I'll PM you Cramer's email. 

As for the Wave Destroyer, they are available via special order:

AIRE | Wave Destroyer 14 Cataraft

AIRE | Wave Destroyer 15.5 Cataraft

The prices are $1999.00 for the WD 14 and $2199.00 for the WD 15.5.


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## Awoody (Nov 15, 2006)

I think if you're relying on a slingshot for your in a pinch food source you're going to be a hungry indian. I've killed grouse with a wrist rocket before, but there's a whole lot of luck involved, and probably not a very good bet in an "in a pinch" type of situation. And as far as oars go, I think if someone made a regular sleeve and lock set up but had ovalized grips on the oar (like the ones on my AT2 would do) so you could tell where your blades are, it would make everything else obsolete.


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## Steve Kahn (Apr 17, 2004)

*friends*



COUNT said:


> "friends" didn't work and since I don't have any, I didn't know what they were.
> 
> COUNT


 
the term "friends" comes from the company wild country, which calls some of their cams (all of them?) friends. they were some of the first, and you used to see alot of the solid stem friends. These days, much more common is the flexible kind from Black Diamond, Aliens, and even wild country now makes flexible "friends"...

anyways, just a brand name cam...(like BD's camolots).

hungry indian...i am laughing!


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## Randaddy (Jun 8, 2007)

Does anyone else trail grab straps? I think webbing is less likely to snag than rope. I always trail a few feet behind the ducky so I don't lose it. I think I'm going to start doing it with the raft....


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## mania (Oct 21, 2003)

I think this is a bad idea. the risks of entanglement seem to outweigh the benefits of getting back to your boat. maybe on big water like the stikine when you are solo - I mean mark is the man, but if I saw someone with a big strap trailing behind their raft I would be like WTF are you doing? A kid died on westwater I believe from a trailing rope. Tight chicken lines are as far as I am willing to go and even some people will gripe about those being hazardous.


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## caspermike (Mar 9, 2007)

why not just have chiken straps all the way around if you need help getting in. still anykind of rope thats not already on the raft when you buy it isn't a good idea otherwise they would put them on it. good luck catching the raft bro


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## brendodendo (Jul 18, 2004)

Mania,
in a previous post, I think you mentioned that you have a flip strap tied across the bottom of your boat.


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## Randaddy (Jun 8, 2007)

I feel much less comfortable with chicken straps all the way around. I put them in the middle and make sure they're tighter than a sumbitch.

However, I don't see getting entangled in just a couple feet of trailing webbing off the back D-ring. Of course it needs to be pretty short. I saw a lot of old school guides doing this on the Gauley and the New because it works. 

It seems like guides go around and around about webbing and rope on the boat. I still think that more people have died and been hurt because they got away from the craft. Having a short trail line might help this, and chicken lines certainly do. I don't keep a bowline on the front of the raft like a lot of people do, however. That seems like it is too long and potentially dangerous if it comes unwound.

Oh, and Mike, I don't need help getting back in the boat, I just like people to have something to grab when I flip their tourist asses in class 3!


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## mania (Oct 21, 2003)

brendodendo said:


> Mania,
> in a previous post, I think you mentioned that you have a flip strap tied across the bottom of your boat.


I have never had that. maybe i should...


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## jbarnow (Sep 10, 2007)

Awoody said:


> I think if you're relying on a slingshot for your in a pinch food source you're going to be a hungry indian. I've killed grouse with a wrist rocket before, but there's a whole lot of luck involved, and probably not a very good bet in an "in a pinch" type of situation. And as far as oars go, I think if someone made a regular sleeve and lock set up but had ovalized grips on the oar (like the ones on my AT2 would do) so you could tell where your blades are, it would make everything else obsolete.


 
Wrist rocket is way better than nothing. Survival knowledge will be king if this situation becomes a reality for anyone. Any and all techniques to survive will be key in the event you lose your craft and are stranded in the woods indefinitely. Food rations are nice and all but what happens when they go along with everything else.

The most important piece of survival equipment is a multi-tool or more commonly a knife. Without a knife you could be in deep poopoo. Seems like fixing a knife and some cord to your pfd is a really good idea. Cord will help you trap animals with snares or could be used for fishing. 

I missed the part where they talked about trailing lines? Cams on a 20ft section of rope does seem like a great docking technique. Might have to implent that for quick stops while fishing.


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## CWorthy (Jun 22, 2005)

I know you'll probably consider this to be a "chick thing", but I keep my "Nettie's Ladder" strapped to the side of my boat so I can easily pee off the side as well as catch  or climb back in to either of my boats. 

The bag it comes in keeps it from dragging along and is easily accessible when needed. Aside from that, I second the tight chicken line being the only other alternative I'd consider


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## raftus (Jul 20, 2005)

jbarnow said:


> Wrist rocket is way better than nothing. Survival knowledge will be king if this situation becomes a reality for anyone. Any and all techniques to survive will be key in the event you lose your craft and are stranded in the woods indefinitely. Food rations are nice and all but what happens when they go along with everything else.
> 
> The most important piece of survival equipment is a multi-tool or more commonly a knife. Without a knife you could be in deep poopoo. Seems like fixing a knife and some cord to your pfd is a really good idea. Cord will help you trap animals with snares or could be used for fishing.


They make survival rations, the type for liferafts and disasters, that are about 3600 calories to a large bar. In a survival situation you eat as little as 200-400 calories a day (the bars are pre-portioned), so that is 9-18 days worth of food. Of course this is grossly under your needs and you will be weakened by it, but it will keep you going for a while. They are small enough that if you have a thigh pack under your drysuit you could carry a few of them, and they are in airtight packaging so even if your suit gets compromised your food stays edible. After reading 'Brothers on the Bashkaus' I got interested in lightweight high calorie food options for expeditions and found these bars. Of course you could carry cubes of cured pork fat instead.

Mainstay 3600 Emergency Food Rations - Survivor Industries



jbarnow said:


> I missed the part where they talked about trailing lines?


The article dosen't mention them specifically, but you can see them in the photos. They have been discussed here in the past, as well as on Boatertalk and on some of the yahoo groups.


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