# Main Salmon River Toilet Options



## WhitefishBrandon (Feb 7, 2014)

We pulled a Main Salmon permit for late July and I'm having trouble figuring out what the legal options are for a pooper.

Can anyone fill me in. Wag bags are not allowed? 5 gallon buckets are not a good idea? Ammo cans are the only option unless you spend $200-$500 on a toilet system?


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## cataraftgirl (Jun 5, 2009)

PM sent with info.
Make sure you get your Idaho Invasive species stickers for each boat. Here's the link to order.
http://www.agri.state.id.us/Categories/Environment/InvasiveSpeciesCouncil/Sticker_Purchase.php


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## Paul the Kayaker (Nov 7, 2004)

We used 5 gallon buckets with gamma seal lids and a luggable loo seat last year on the Middle Fork. Worked great, no issues, all in all about 40 bucks for 5 toilets with lids and one seat. If you are worried about cracking the bucket glue a second nesting bucket to the bottom of each toilet with some construction adhesive so you have a double walled design, adds strength, a little height and only about 3 bucks more per toilet.


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## dirtbagkayaker (Oct 29, 2008)

"I poop in a bucket."


Do what Paul the kayaker said. I also put a bit of camp chem in the bucket for oder control.


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## hand8272 (May 24, 2011)

Paul the Kayaker said:


> We used 5 gallon buckets with gamma seal lids and a luggable loo seat last year on the Middle Fork. Worked great, no issues, all in all about 40 bucks for 5 toilets with lids and one seat. If you are worried about cracking the bucket glue a second nesting bucket to the bottom of each toilet with some construction adhesive so you have a double walled design, adds strength, a little height and only about 3 bucks more per toilet.


Wow 5 buckets!! How many people did you have on the trip!?


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## cataraftgirl (Jun 5, 2009)

We use the bucket system also. Has anyone used the wag bags on the Main Salmon? Just curious. I imagine if they are transported inside a bucket with gamma lid they'd be ok, but I know they are frowned upon some places.

I'd like to try the double glued bucket this summer.


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## Paul the Kayaker (Nov 7, 2004)

Around 20 people and lots of food and beer... Needed assurances we'd have enough room. We may have had an empty one at the end I cant remember.


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## mdconner (Feb 1, 2011)

*Got the Luggable Loo seat & the gamma lids and buckets - how do you glue the seat*



Paul the Kayaker said:


> We used 5 gallon buckets with gamma seal lids and a luggable loo seat last year on the Middle Fork. Worked great, no issues, all in all about 40 bucks for 5 toilets with lids and one seat. If you are worried about cracking the bucket glue a second nesting bucket to the bottom of each toilet with some construction adhesive so you have a double walled design, adds strength, a little height and only about 3 bucks more per toilet.


Hey, Paul, Maybe I just don't get it, but, I got the Luggable Loo seat & the gamma lid and buckets - how do you glue the seat to what's left of the gamma lid after it has been jig sawed (?) out? Got any photos?


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## Paul the Kayaker (Nov 7, 2004)

I don't have any photos but you need 2 gamma seals for this. One working in full on the top of the bucket, and then you use just the inner ring of a second gamma seal and jig saw out the outer ring of the inner ring if that makes sense, just the part with the threads on it. Then just those threads are used, we glued them onto the bottom of the seat with gorilla glue, but adding a rivet or two may not be a bad idea. Its kinda hard to make the threaded ring fit under the seat but keep cutting out material and eventually it will fit perfectly. Then when you get to camp, unscrew the lid on your sealed bucket and thread on your seat.

I did just notice though today when I was at JAX that the luggable loo seat has changed since last year. The new model may or may not fit the same way. I need to build up a new one as well so I'll let you know what I find out, maybe I'll have time to do that this weekend.


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## Rich (Sep 14, 2006)

cataraftgirl said:


> We use the bucket system also. Has anyone used the wag bags on the Main Salmon? Just curious. I imagine if they are transported inside a bucket with gamma lid they'd be ok, but I know they are frowned upon some places.
> 
> I'd like to try the double glued bucket this summer.


We used wag bags on a 4 person / 6 day early season Middle/Main Combo.
Works good for small groups, short trips. I also use them on solo overnights.


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## cataraftgirl (Jun 5, 2009)

Paul the Kayaker said:


> I don't have any photos but you need 2 gamma seals for this. One working in full on the top of the bucket, and then you use just the inner ring of a second gamma seal and jig saw out the outer ring of the inner ring if that makes sense, just the part with the threads on it. Then just those threads are used, we glued them onto the bottom of the seat with gorilla glue, but adding a rivet or two may not be a bad idea. Its kinda hard to make the threaded ring fit under the seat but keep cutting out material and eventually it will fit perfectly. Then when you get to camp, unscrew the lid on your sealed bucket and thread on your seat.
> 
> I did just notice though today when I was at JAX that the luggable loo seat has changed since last year. The new model may or may not fit the same way. I need to build up a new one as well so I'll let you know what I find out, maybe I'll have time to do that this weekend.


Don't trust the Gorilla Glue. We tried that, and it lasted 1/2 a season. It dries out and looses it's grip. Rivets or screws is a better way to go. I so wanted the LL seat to work straight out of the box, but it just didn't. A friend took a wooden seat and screwed some small furniture nubbie things (he got them in the hardware section of Ace hardware) on the bottom. He traced the pattern of the Gamma lid opening on the bottom of the toilet seat. Then he attached the nubs on the bottom of the seat so it sits on the gamma bucket. It grips the inner and outer edge of gamma perfect, and doesn't slide around. No need for the second lid with the cut-out. I've also been wondering if the Coyote seat from 4CRS would sit on the Gamma bucket? Might be worth a try?


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## Sembob (Feb 27, 2014)

So I like the 5 gallon bucket idea that is being discussed here. I googled gamma lids cause I didn't know what they were and it turns out there is a lot to choose from. And a big price range. Does it matter? Should I go cheap? I wouldn't want a fail. Thanks


Jim


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## cataraftgirl (Jun 5, 2009)

Sembob said:


> So I like the 5 gallon bucket idea that is being discussed here. I googled gamma lids cause I didn't know what they were and it turns out there is a lot to choose from. And a big price range. Does it matter? Should I go cheap? I wouldn't want a fail. Thanks
> 
> 
> Jim


I usually get mine at Walmart or Emergency Essentials. Walmart charges around $6 and EE about $8. Walmart doesn't always have them, and I learned the hard way that some of the buckets Walmart sells don't fit the lids. All the lids come from the same company, so it shouldn't matter where you get them. I like to look them over first and make sure they're good and aren't warped. I had to sort through a stack of them at EE once to find the best ones. They had a bunch that were warped. That was the first time I've seen warped ones though. If you can't find them locally, you can order them. Then you'll have a choice on colors. I use them for lots of things around the house....potting soil, birdseed, dog food, fertilizer, general storage.


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## tmacc (Sep 6, 2009)

I've seen the Gamma lids at Home Depot too.

When it's just the two of us on the Main, we use the PETT toilet and store the used bags in a 20mm rocket box. No one has hassled us about.


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## Sembob (Feb 27, 2014)

Thank you Cat, I was thinking of buying the system NRS sell, instead I am going to try this one. Probably do Paul's double wall trick. I currently use buckets and have developed a bomb proof system for keeping the lids on but it uses the original lids and they are a pita to get on and off. Last Fall on the Main some lids started to break. Fortunately I had extras. Seems like you guys have a better system worked out. Thanks for sharing!


Jim


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## Paul the Kayaker (Nov 7, 2004)

Ya Home depot usually has them for around 7. I've had a hard time finding them at wally land. 

The double walled thing has two attractions, one it makes the bucket a bit taller, which is nice for grooving position, and it gives you the added peace of mind in case you pack poorly and crack a bucket (which I havent yet encountered and I've packed lots of gear on top of my buckets). Also the forest service sometimes asks, and I've seen some gossip about new regulations and that groovers need to be double walled so for another 2.50 and some silicone the problem is solved. Also they fit in the scat machines in Idaho (havent yet tried the 2 bucket design but I think it will fit no problem), and are super easy to empty at RV dumps, just pull the lid and pour out contents, hose, spray with lysol and you're done. 

Remember when youre sealing your bucket for the last time to add a little river water and a packet of the blue RV chem stuff, it makes clean out duty way easier.


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## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

Local ranch supply store carries gammas also. Break a bucket? Are you guys playing horseshoes with them or something?  We haven't even remotely run into that, but we store them pretty well so they aren't getting impact or exposure to the elements when not in use. Replacing them periodically is wise, it is a whole $13 or something here for bucket and lid. We did the second lid option, cut a hole in it and screwed a seat on. I like that critters or dogs can't knock the seat off unless they are wiley enough to life the lid. I also sewed a harness for rigging it and it rides on a wooden beaver tail board.


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## cataraftgirl (Jun 5, 2009)

Good to know about the wag bags. Nice for a two person or weekend trip. Maybe not as practical for a big group.

Buckets - we keep some of the RV minty fresh powder stuff in a Mrs. Dash shaker and sprinkle after each use. Keeps the odor down a bit. Two things to remember about the gamma seals. Don't over tighten then. It stretches the o-ring, and if done repeatedly the o-ring will fall off. Second is to make sure your crew doesn't set them down in the dirt or sand. This will also mess up the seal. We keep a giant ziplock in the groover supply bag to put the lid in while the throne is in use.


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## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

I made a kayaker groover for short trips when I am bringing my own groover. PVC, with screwed caps on both ends. You want both to open-able so you can push the contents out. So far we've only used it for camping where there is no trash, and we put the dog poop bags in it.


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## cataraftgirl (Jun 5, 2009)

lhowemt said:


> I made a kayaker groover for short trips when I am bringing my own groover. PVC, with screwed caps on both ends. You want both to open-able so you can push the contents out. So far we've only used it for camping where there is no trash, and we put the dog poop bags in it.


I need to make one of those for touring kayak trips. Something that will fit in the kayak hatch or stow in the tankwell. How long did you make yours? 6 inch pvc?


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