# MF Trip Reports?



## TKumec (Oct 2, 2020)

I haven't heard any reports back since the fire started. We are launching on 8/3 and I'm interested to hear how it is out there. Chief concern is air quality. 

Anybody get in from a trip in the last few days?


----------



## SheepEater (Jul 9, 2020)

Launching 8/7 and have the same concerns, any recent trip reports appreciated


----------



## BenSlaughter (Jun 16, 2017)

That's serious crystal ball territory. 
"How bad will the smoke be in a week or 10 days?"
WHO KNOWS?! 

Will the Moose Fire settle down? Maybe. 
Will four new fires blow up? Possibly!

And really, who cares? You're on the river!
Plan for it to be smokey, it's just a fact of life in the west. If it's not smokey, BONUS!


----------



## TKumec (Oct 2, 2020)

If anyone has any stupid comments like the one above please feel free to keep those to your self. If you have any trip reports from your middle fork trip, we'd love to read them!


----------



## BenSlaughter (Jun 16, 2017)

Listen, I've driven alllll the way across Oregon, then half of Idaho in perfectly clear air to put in on those rivers. 
Perfectly clear air at the ramp.

Two days later, the wind shifts, some fire in NE Oregon blows up, fills the canyon with smoke so thick you could barely see the other bank. 
Then two days after that, the wind shifts again and the air in pristine again.
Wake up the next morning, choking smoke.

So asking what the air quality will be like in 10 days, hell, even 3 days is utterly ignorant.

Shut up and go boat'n, or turn your permit in so someone else can pick it up in time to plan a trip.


----------



## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

OP, more often than not, there are fires in the West, ESPECIALLY in August.
If air quality is a concern, you probably shouldn't be putting in for August permits.



BenSlaughter said:


> And really, who cares? You're on the river!
> Plan for it to be smokey, it's just a fact of life in the west. If it's not smokey, BONUS!


This post was not a bit stupid. Actually quite intelligent. You got the answer you needed to hear, just not the one you wanted to hear.
But snarky? yes. And still correct.
You really ought to adjust your expectations that unforseen (or likely) events like regional forest fires could impact your trip plans. It's just a fact of life. Unpleasant, but a risk you take when you go on a wilderness trip on a Western river in late summer.

If you've read recent trip reports or Facebook posts, the Moose Fire smoke is generally blowing east, and as of now, the river corridor is clear
but as @BenSlaughter noted, there's a GOOD chance of a fire blowing up in NE Oregon that could fill the MF/Main corridor with smoke.


----------



## coult45 (May 14, 2020)

TKumec said:


> If anyone has any stupid comments like the one above please feel free to keep those to your self. If you have any trip reports from your middle fork trip, we'd love to read them!


his reply was Honest and clear. Air quality changes by the minute. If you are concerned about air quality, I suggest you try a trip in April or may when the chance of smoke is much lower.


----------



## GOTY2011 (Mar 18, 2018)

Only Bob Weir controls the weather.


----------



## TKumec (Oct 2, 2020)

Alright, sorry to cause a scene. I'll look elsewhere for help.


----------



## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

MT4Runner said:


> You got the answer you needed to hear, just not the one you wanted to hear.


^^
You're getting good honest advice.

I'd encourage you to stick around and participate, rather than looking elsewhere for validation.


----------



## hysideguy67 (Jul 15, 2021)

TKumec said:


> Alright, sorry to cause a scene. I'll look elsewhere for help.


Don't take your toys and leave. If there are smoke related health concerns and/or travel concerns your trip may not be the best timing. Otherwise I think closures are you're biggest worry


----------



## UseTheSpinMove (Nov 16, 2016)

Driving to Boundary today. Off Aug 1. Happy to share any stories when we're back. I'm more worried about road closures/egress than smoke.


----------



## yojimbo (Oct 12, 2003)

TKumec said:


> I haven't heard any reports back since the fire started. We are launching on 8/3 and I'm interested to hear how it is out there. Chief concern is air quality.
> 
> Anybody get in from a trip in the last few days?


There are web cams at the airstrips at Lower Loon Creek and at the Flying B that can give you an idea of current visibility.


----------



## the_dude (May 31, 2006)

GOTY2011 said:


> Only Bob Weir controls the weather.


Now we're talking. This guy gets it. Weir everywhere.


----------



## nolichuck (Mar 11, 2010)

BenSlaughter said:


> That's serious crystal ball territory.
> "How bad will the smoke be in a week or 10 days?"
> WHO KNOWS?!
> 
> ...


I’ll tell you who cares: the tamales or the two helicopter pilots who died, all the people in Lemhi County who have been impacted in many ways, and the 800 plus firefighters and their families. We came off the MF this past Sunday and only had a little smoke while camped at Camas Creek. There was a pilot car from North Fork to Spring Creek. All of this thanks to some very ignorant campers - not lightning.


----------



## Whitewater Worthy Equip (Dec 11, 2013)

Here is a good site for webcams around Idaho.






Webcams | Idaho Aviation Foundation | Protecting Idaho's Backcountry Air Strips


Protecting Idaho's Backcountry Air Strips--Our National Treasures. Companion organization to the Idaho Aviation Association.




idahoaviationfoundation.org


----------



## griz (Sep 19, 2005)

nolichuck said:


> I’ll tell you who cares: the tamales or the two helicopter pilots who died, all the people in Lemhi County who have been impacted in many ways, and the 800 plus firefighters and their families. We came off the MF this past Sunday and only had a little smoke while camped at Camas Creek. There was a pilot car from North Fork to Spring Creek. All of this thanks to some very ignorant campers - not lightning.


i bet you’re a lot of fun at a party


----------



## hysideguy67 (Jul 15, 2021)

griz said:


> i bet you’re a lot of fun at a party


I think he missed the point of the post


----------



## Conundrum (Aug 23, 2004)

Ben gave the most real answer. Yojimbo gave the most useful but only if you don’t use it for a few more days.

Good luck on your trip.

Here's another good resource.



Idaho Backcountry Weather Index


----------



## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

Tamales? Oh hell yes! I had no idea anyone near Salmon sold tamales. They're best when homemade, sold out of a trunk in a parking lot and without the government's knowledge.


----------



## hysideguy67 (Jul 15, 2021)

MT4Runner said:


> Tamales? Oh hell yes! I had no idea anyone near Salmon sold tamales. They're best when homemade, sold out of a trunk in a parking lot and without the government's knowledge.


Jill? Is that you?


----------



## BenSlaughter (Jun 16, 2017)

MT4Runner said:


> Tamales? Oh hell yes! I had no idea anyone near Salmon sold tamales. They're best when homemade, sold out of a trunk in a parking lot and without the government's knowledge.


My main problem with most tamales is it's like 95% bland masa, and maybe one string of shredded beef.
The one's sold out the back of some jallape' are almost always superior. Good corn\meat ratio.
Especially if she's got some homemade salsa or sauce to go with them!!

I'll risk diarrhea for those!


----------



## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

The tamale makers feed their family the same recipe as they sell. It’s not their fault if you have a week constitution and get the trots!


----------



## hysideguy67 (Jul 15, 2021)

Way to get off topic boys.... BUT.... the best tamales in the universe are served by two women with a shitty cooler strapped to a rickety luggage tote in the ghettos of S. Oregon


----------



## COH20man (Jul 13, 2021)

There are now 2 other fires in the area besides the moose fire. The wolf fang and woodtick fires will likely bring more smoke to the area and are lighting caused. Also Stage 1 fire ban just went into effect. 

I read the whole Leidecker guide and still can't find crystal ball.


----------



## BenSlaughter (Jun 16, 2017)

Big destination resort job I worked on maybe 15-20 years ago had a tamale sellin lady(one of the framers wife) on site most days, which was great, cause the job was 15 miles outta town, and it's all to common to forget lunch.

Anyhoo, I show up one morning, and the place is a ghost town. Out of probly 2-300 people, there were maybe 100 there.

I asked the Superintendent what was up...
Turns out the tamale lady had gotten a bad batch of... somethin. I'd eaten some the day before, nary a questionable fart. Same for Sam(the Super) 
So, I say I'll risk jallape' tamales. But I also trust my gut to get me through. 😎

Ooops.
I guess we went off topic...

Although not really, cause I'll also trust my respiratory system to handle a little wildfire smoke whilst boating. 😉


----------



## Electric-Mayhem (Jan 19, 2004)

haha... Tamale thread takeover is TIGHT!

Best Tamales I've ever had were in a bowling alley in Fairplay, CO. The bowling alley shut down and I was super sad that the Tamales weren't gonna be there anymore...but they merged with a bakery next to the Grocery store and sell em now. I highly recommend Dorothy's Tamales. Its the only tamale I've ever had where the masa was the star of the show. I don't know what they do to make it that way (pork lard?) but the filling is almost inconsequential but the Pork Green chili is pretty good. If I go up to the Arkansas River I always stop and grab a dozen or two frozen ones to take home.

I head up the the MFS early next week...hoping for many reasons, including my own selfish ones, that the fires have calmed down and roads start to open up again. Oh...and so those badass fire fighter folks don't have to continue to risk life and limb and the locals don't have to worry about it burning their lives to the ground too.


----------



## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

Pro tip: manifold tamales are even better than manifold burritos. Fight me.


----------



## Eyedaho (Dec 6, 2017)

COH20man said:


> There are now 2 other fires in the area besides the moose fire. The wolf fang and woodtick fires will likely bring more smoke to the area and are lighting caused. Also Stage 1 fire ban just went into effect.
> 
> I read the whole Leidecker guide and still can't find crystal ball.


Crystal balls is the sneak route around vasectomy rock.


----------



## Eyedaho (Dec 6, 2017)

BenSlaughter said:


> Big destination resort job I worked on maybe 15-20 years ago had a tamale sellin lady(one of the framers wife) on site most days, which was great, cause the job was 15 miles outta town, and it's all to common to forget lunch.
> 
> Anyhoo, I show up one morning, and the place is a ghost town. Out of probly 2-300 people, there were maybe 100 there.
> 
> ...


When big gov first started pushing ethanol in gasoline, the price of corn husks went through the roof. Numerous illicit tamale vendors resorted to...other methods for wrapping their wares, which resulted in one of the largest outbreaks of swamp ass in US history. Allegedly.


----------



## Eyedaho (Dec 6, 2017)

TKumec said:


> If anyone has any stupid comments like the one above please feel free to keep those to your self. If you have any trip reports from your middle fork trip, we'd love to read them!


From the Inciweb report today (see quote below). This morning the report was different, and when they update it tomorrow it will be different again. Unless another fire breaks out lower on the main, you likely won't have active fire in your campsite. That gets really smoky, but was still way more fun for me than sitting at home. If folks on your trip have health issues that are aggravated by smoke, you should assume it will be smoky, in my opinion.

"Smoke was slow to move off the fire today but it was warmer and dryer with humidity minimums approaching 15%. Slope and valley winds dominated with northwest winds at ridgetops. Lifting began across the fire at 1500 with smoke lingering on the east side. Wednesday will continue the warming and drying trend with a bit more instability. There is a better chance for cumulus development over and around the fire with showers along the Montana border. Winds will continue to be relatively light and follow slope/valley patterns."

Also, anyone please feel free to PM me if you're dropping an 8/17 or 8/18 main permit, since that would alleviate any concern about getting off at Cache. 😁


----------



## hysideguy67 (Jul 15, 2021)

MT4Runner said:


> Pro tip: manifold tamales are even better than manifold burritos. Fight me.


I will! Cuz manifold Dinty Moore is da best


----------



## Whitewater Worthy Equip (Dec 11, 2013)

If your text your gps coordinates from cell or in reach father you can get fire information.


----------



## HitMcG (Jun 6, 2018)

Hyside, Can I get a little more location info on those tamale ladies? 🙂

And MT4Runner, agree to disagree on the manifold tamales. Burritos are where it's at. 🌯

I really like the direction this thread has gone.


----------



## Eyedaho (Dec 6, 2017)

HitMcG said:


> Hyside, Can I get a little more location info on those tamale ladies? 🙂
> 
> And MT4Runner, agree to disagree on the manifold tamales. Burritos are where it's at. 🌯
> 
> I really like the direction this thread has gone.


The difference is in the cooking style. You want to brown a tortilla a little and get some crispy bits, while you want to steam a tamale. So if you have good head gaskets and no cracks in your heads/block, you'll want to go with burritos for the dry heat. If your motor is expelling clouds of steam, tamales will cook much better. Be like the water.


----------



## BenSlaughter (Jun 16, 2017)

Mmmmmmm....Prestone 🤤


----------



## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

I always figured a hot exhaust manifold could char the husk while the masa catches some crispiness without charring


----------



## jgrebe (Jan 16, 2010)

OK gotta throw this factoid out. Back about 1915 Ford had a "manifold oven" that was an option on the Model T. The idea was you put your Sunday dinner in the oven, took a drive after church and came home to a cooked meal. I saw one once at a car show (working). Why choose, cook burritos and tamales. Pretty cool


----------



## hysideguy67 (Jul 15, 2021)

HitMcG said:


> Hyside, Can I get a little more location info on those tamale ladies? 🙂
> 
> And MT4Runner, agree to disagree on the manifold tamales. Burritos are where it's at. 🌯
> 
> I really like the direction this thread has gone.


Over a decade ago I had a house in W. Medford (off Columbus Av if you know the area). Every week 2 Hispanic women with kids in tow would walk the "hood" with said cooler and cart filled with heaven. Perfect ratio of filling to masa. They weren't cheap tho..... like 10 for 12 bucks


----------



## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

jgrebe said:


> OK gotta throw this factoid out. Back about 1915 Ford had a "manifold oven" that was an option on the Model T. The idea was you put your Sunday dinner in the oven, took a drive after church and came home to a cooked meal. I saw one once at a car show (working). Why choose, cook burritos and tamales. Pretty cool







__





Manifold Destiny: The One, the Only, Guide to Cooking on Your Car Engine! by Chris Maynard; Bill Scheller: Fair Paperback (1998) | ThriftBooks-Atlanta


AbeBooks.com: Manifold Destiny: The One, the Only, Guide to Cooking on Your Car Engine!: Readable copy. Pages may have considerable notes/highlighting. ~ ThriftBooks: Read More, Spend Less



www.abebooks.com


----------



## battas3 (Dec 16, 2011)

Everyone has missed the point. The best tamales ever made are called papusas lol


----------



## BenSlaughter (Jun 16, 2017)

Don't leave us hangin, man!


----------



## hysideguy67 (Jul 15, 2021)

battas3 said:


> Everyone has missed the point. The best tamales ever made are called papusas lol


K, had to look them up. Not gonna lie, they look pretty yum


----------



## Conundrum (Aug 23, 2004)

It appears BenSlaughter's avatar has heard of papusas as well.


----------



## BenSlaughter (Jun 16, 2017)

Oh...so kindof a corn fritter with stuffing?


----------



## Bleugrass (Feb 5, 2018)

battas3 said:


> Everyone has missed the point. The best tamales ever made are called papusas lol


Pupusas are indeed excellent, but they scratch a slightly different itch than tamales. In my experience, they use a coarser corn masa and are little more focused on the filling, while tamales use a very fine ground masa that acquires a super creamy texture when combined with epic amounts of fat. Same idea, though.


----------



## BenSlaughter (Jun 16, 2017)

I can tell already I like them better!


----------



## battas3 (Dec 16, 2011)

Bleugrass said:


> Pupusas are indeed excellent, but they scratch a slightly different itch than tamales. In my experience, they use a coarser corn masa and are little more focused on the filling, while tamales use a very fine ground masa that acquires a super creamy texture when combined with epic amounts of fat. Same idea, though.


An excellent take. What a world that we get to have both.


----------



## battas3 (Dec 16, 2011)

BenSlaughter said:


> I can tell already I like them better!


I’ve never been disappointed by a papusa. They’re well worth the effort to find them.


----------



## kayaker (Oct 29, 2003)

GOTY2011 said:


> Only Bob Weir controls the weather.


after he steals the face right off your head!


----------



## BryanTBurke (Jun 14, 2020)

Tamales aside, I've worked a summer event in western Montana 29 of the last 30 years during the first two weeks of August. Smoke can be very bad at times and it's often from fires hundreds of miles to the west. The advice from another poster about how fast things change and for people with lung issues is very real. Besides the fact that conditions will change with wind, rain, etc. it will also get steadily worse through the day. The fires usually damp down at night so it's not uncommon to wake up to pretty clear air and then watch it deteriorate throughout the day. Anyone with lung problems should be really well equipped, or maybe skip the trip.


----------



## Flagstaff (Aug 6, 2013)

TKumec said:


> I haven't heard any reports back since the fire started. We are launching on 8/3 and I'm interested to hear how it is out there. Chief concern is air quality.
> 
> Anybody get in from a trip in the last few days?


What fire? There are lots


----------



## kanoer2 (Mar 5, 2011)

Banana leaves


----------



## Wadeinthewater (Mar 22, 2009)

Came off the river 7/28. Intermittent very light smoke in the lower half of the river, but enough to bother a couple of people in our group. Waited quite a while for the pilot car on the drive out and probably should have done the Panther Creek route because we were headed to Stanley and it would nice to see something different. Saw a small fire on a right bank ridge between Big Creek and Ship Island Creek. But your conditions will most likely be completely different.


----------



## UseTheSpinMove (Nov 16, 2016)

Now I want some tamales. 

Came off the MF early this morning. Hardly any smoke during the trip -- a mildly hazy day or two is all. A creek must have blown out somewhere up high because the last day or two had a little haze in the water, too. 

The smoke was really bad driving up the Salmon canyon between Cache and North Fork. 

We only had to wait like 20 minutes for a pilot car at Panther... partly luck, but also partly because today they were using two pilot cars, in opposite directions (we passed each other at Spring Creek), which probably really sped up the waits for both directions. No idea if they will continue that. If the folks (IDFG officers, today) managing the ends of the pilot section had told us the wait would have been longer than 45 minutes, we probably would have taken Panther to get out -- but I just sort of made up that math in my head. I heard some people were waiting hours for the pilot laps last week, which doesn't sound fun. 

Hope this helps folks. Things can change, obviously. But it was pretty smooth sailing for us. Lots of respect to the firefighters and to folks near the fire who are stressed about their homes while watching happy rafters drive in and out of their vacations -- that's the part that made me feel odd.

Tamales!


----------



## Got some 2L in my 7C (5 mo ago)

TKumec said:


> I haven't heard any reports back since the fire started. We are launching on 8/3 and I'm interested to hear how it is out there. Chief concern is air quality.
> 
> Anybody get in from a trip in the last few days?


We launched the 25th @2.25 from Boundary, top end was great, it was holding at 2.1 when we hit the Flying B. Trip was phenomenal and the weather was perfect. No smoke to speak of. The Wolf Fang fire was visible on the ridge line across the river from Elk camp, but no threat. Be prepared to be held up at some point on the drive back from Cache Bar. We waited at the mouth of Panther cr for about 45 min for a shuttle car. The Moose fire’s primary direction of spread is to the south and so hopefully the river road won’t be impacted for much longer.


----------



## captbarryw (Mar 9, 2021)

Sounds like a great trip! We are launching Aug 27. Stoked the water is holding up.


----------

