# Difference between men and women kayakers of the same size



## YakaRaft

Let me rephrase: What makes women kayakers different than men other than size and balls? Why are there about 100 male kayakers for every 1 female kayaker? (good odds - not complaining, but would like to see some more badass chicks to boat with)


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## gh

Most women have shorter torsos and longer legs than a man of equal height.


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## TheKid

Aggression. I have taught many women how to paddle. And most of the time when they are first starting they beat the pants off their male counter parts. Flexibility and timing are huge when you are learning, but those inherent traits only go so far. From there on out the biggest difference down the road is aggression and confidence. To progress as a paddler you constantly have to try new things in order to progress quickly. I see a lot of women you figure it out and are rock star boaters when they start. They become comfortable with where they are at, and it takes all time for them to want to step out of that comfort zone. I think that is huge. I'm mainly a freestyle boater, and most of the people out there don't understand how easy these new freestyle moves are. Ya they look hard but if you break them down they aren't that though. You just have to understand what minor changes in body position will do. It is that easy. Minor tweaks. Yet I meet so many people that say they would love to learn new moves. Yet every time they get back in the hole that flat spin and cartwheel. I can not even count the number of times I have really broken down a trick for someone, and they say wow that's cool. And they never ever try it. You always going to fail at first nothing comes that easy, but five trys down the road and you will be really close to nailing that fancy new trick. So my advise to you. IF you wish to progress, change your thinking. The easiest way to do that is get on a river you are comfortable with, and run lines that you have never done. Be creative on that section of water. This will increase your comfort level on all type of water. It will also give you insight on how to run rapids you are scouting. You will learn so much. Same thing goes for freestyle. Try tricks you have never done. You will be astonished at how good you will be if you constantly pursue new goals. New be satisfied with where you are. That will make paddling keep your attention. In turn it will take you so many place that you could never have dreamed of.


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## KSC

Sorry, but if size is the only physical difference between men and women you've heard about, you haven't been having enough fun in college.


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## mania

I agree about the aggression, which must be from three things: testosterone, evolution and nurturing. whitewater is one of those sports that 'looks' like it might hurt, be extreme, whatever. these sports always have more men for the reasons i mentioned. i don't think this will change much - you just have to keep looking for those bad ass chicks.


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## BastrdSonOfElvis

Boys have penises and girls have vaginas.


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## YakaRaft

BastrdSonOfElvis said:


> Boys have penises and girls have vaginas and Jesus freaks taste like chicken.... hmmmm....


 I have never heard any of that before - that was revolutionary. What about men have muscles and women have style? Anyone ever given a thought to how women compensate for generally not having as much bulging muscle as men? I would have to say that we use more finesse and style....


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## Anna Levesque

There are a lot of differences: Our center of gravity is in our butts and hips while a man's is in his upper body. This makes putting a boat on edge more challenging for women -- so it's not just that women aren't trying new freestyle moves, it's that most of them need more in-depth edge control training to do so. Physical aggression is another difference -- men are more physically aggressive than women so men are more likely to push their limits. Women have a different stress response than men and women really like strong group support. If you tell a woman: "Just follow me." Or 'Just try this." Or "You'll be fine." Don't expect her to want to push her limits or to want to paddle with you a lot. 

There are a lot of differences -- too many to go over in this forum. I've mentioned a lot of this in my columns in Kayak Session -- you should check them out. Or get a copy of Girls at Play. Or just boat with more women -- you'll notice a difference.


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## gh

YakaRaft, give him a break, he paid for advanced degrees to be able to quote that kind of medical jargon.


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## YakaRaft

KSC said:


> Sorry, but if size is the only physical difference between men and women you've heard about, you haven't been having enough fun in college.


Sounds like If I had to go to college to find that out and he had to go to med school to find that out then we should have spent our money on sweet kayaking gear instead of a worthless education....

On the note of women having a different stress response and more of a sense of self-preservation - do you think this is the same for women who paddle with only men as for womeon who paddle with other women? i.e. does being around dudes rub off on a woman? or, does paddling with other women give women more confidence?


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## Anna Levesque

I'm sure there's some of both. Traditionally there haven't been a lot of other women to paddle with so women had to act and paddle more like men if they wanted to get better and paddle harder stuff. Now that there are more women paddlers out there and workshops and resources for women I think women are building more confidence by paddling with other women. In my experience, the majority of female paddlers have an easier time pushing their limits when they're paddling with other women or with men that they really trust. Then again, you have some women who are more aggressive and just go for it. 

In my opinion, I think the fact that women have traditionally had to act or approach kayaking like men has not been to our advantage because that only works for a very few women (which is why there have been so few of us). That's one of the reasons I started Girls at Play, because I wasn't one of the women who was very good at or liked approaching whitewater like the guys. I like to have support and I really enjoy the social aspect of kayaking as well. 

The stress response thing applies to most women -- it's not something that can change just because you're paddling with guys. It's the way we're wired. Instead of fight or flight we're more like tend and befriend. Notice that when you paddle with women they like to take their time, they like to scout a little longer and they like to discuss their options for running rapids. They like the social support. Most guys can make up their minds really quickly as to whether or not they're going to run a rapid and are more indepdendent about it and they love to go fast! Of course, I'm making generalizations here and I realize that not every man and woman falls into these behavior patterns, but a lot do.


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## CUkayakGirl

Anna


> "Just follow me." Or 'Just try this." Or "You'll be fine." Don't expect her to want to push her limits or to want to paddle with you a lot.


I totally agree. I have paddled with plenty of people that lead me down things and never told me the lines. Then they tell me, don't worry just follow me...um I am a girl, I worry. Either let me lead it or if it is over my head, stop in the eddy and tell me the line and how you are lining up for it. I could just be bias because the guy I learned to boat with stopped in every eddy and made me ferry above every drop and told me the lines. But it seems like every time I get in a scary situation it was because i was paddling something slightly above my level and the people I was paddling with expected me to just follow them down it.


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## FLOWTORCH

BSOE, you totally missed your chance to use the

"...._that and a pair of testicles"_ line.

And I'm even more disappointed in you given your avatar. For shame on you.


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