# Grand Canyon 2018 - Fifteen Launch Dates Available Now!



## GCPBA (Oct 22, 2009)

*Grand Canyon 2018 - Fifteen Launch Dates Available Now!

*This is from the Grand Canyon River Permits Office. Good luck to everyone!

We have just opened a follow-up lottery for 2018 launch dates at the weighted lottery website (https://grcariverpermits.nps.gov). The lottery will accept applications until Thursday, March 8, 2018, at 12:00 PM (noon) Mountain Standard Time. The available launch dates are:

Standard Size Trips (1 - 16 people):
March 2018: 22
June 2018: 11, 17, 29
October 2018: 30
December 2018: 13, 16


Small Size Trips (1 - 8 people):
April 2018: 1, 21, 25
May 2018: 3, 5, 19, 29
June 2018: 30


Winners will have until Friday, March 9, 2018, at 12:00 PM (noon) Mountain Standard Time to pay their nonrefundable deposits ($400 for standard size trips, $200 for small size trips).

We strongly recommended all lottery applications list at least one Potential Alternate Trip Leader (PATL). If the original trip leader becomes unable to go on the river trip, and there are no confirmed PATLs, the trip will be cancelled. PATLs can be added to a river trip by the trip leader only when submitting a lottery application; see Noncommercial River Trip Regulations for clarification.

The Grand Canyon National Park River Office is open Monday to Friday. Emails and phone calls received on a weekend will not be replied to until Monday.

FORGOT YOUR PASSWORD? You can request a new temporary password by clicking "Forgot my username and/or password" (located below the login box) when on the noncommercial river website. IMPORTANT: The worst time to request a password reset is during the first few hours after a lottery notification email has been sent. The email with your new temporary password will not go out until all lottery notification emails have been sent.

To unsubscribe from lottery notification emails:
- login to your river profile at https://grcariverpermits.nps.gov
- click on "Edit Personal Information"
- in the "Consent to Receive Emails" section, uncheck the boxes
- at the bottom of the page, click on "Submit Changes"

Sincerely,
Grand Canyon River Permits Office

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Grand Canyon National Park River Permits Office Contact Information

Phone: 800-959-9164 (toll free)
928-638-7843 (optional non-toll-free number to same line)

Fax: 928-638-7844

Mail: National Park Service
Grand Canyon River Permits
1824 S. Thompson St., Suite 201
Flagstaff, AZ 86001

email: [email protected]
IMPORTANT: do not email personally identifiable information, such as date of birth or payment details.

Websites:
River Information: www.nps.gov/grca/planyourvisit/whitewater-rafting.htm 
Available Launch Dates: www.nps.gov/grca/planyourvisit/cancelled-dates.htm
Noncommercial River Trip Regulations: https://grcariverpermits.nps.gov/pdf/Noncommercial_River_Trip_Regulations.pdf
Frequently Asked Questions: https://grcariverpermits.nps.gov/pdf/River_and_Weighted_Lottery_FAQs.pdf
Statistics From Past Lotteries: www.nps.gov/grca/planyourvisit/noncommercial-riv-docs.htm
Noncommercial River Website: https://grcariverpermits.nps.gov
Password Reset: https://grcariverpermits.nps.gov/forgotLogin.cfm

Twitter: twitter.com/GCRiverPermits

GCPBA RiverNews is a service of Grand Canyon Private Boaters Association.
Join and Support GCPBA. Visit our website www.gcpba.org.
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## Roberto (Aug 9, 2011)

Am I correct in understanding that if you list a PATL on a Grand C. lottery application, that person cannot enter the lottery for that year?
Thanks.


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## dsrtrat (May 29, 2011)

You are correct and you are reset to the lowest number of chances that both you and the PATL have. For instance if you have 5 chances and the PATL has 2 you will have only 2 chances. This is to prevent gaming the system.


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## Roberto (Aug 9, 2011)

*PATL for Grand lottery*

* Thanks. Hmm. I don't see it as "Gaming the System", I see it as a PITA that whoever I select as a PATL person eliminates their change in the lottery. The system would be fair if the PATL could be selected after one receives a permit through the lottery.
Roberto


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## jbomb (Apr 10, 2015)

Roberto said:


> * Thanks. Hmm. I don't see it as "Gaming the System", I see it as a PITA that whoever I select as a PATL person eliminates their change in the lottery. The system would be fair if the PATL could be selected after one receives a permit through the lottery.
> Roberto


It would be interesting to see how much permits sell for when they're auctioned off to the highest bidder under this proposal.


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## briandburns (Jan 12, 2010)

Roberto said:


> Am I correct in understanding that if you list a PATL on a Grand C. lottery application, that person cannot enter the lottery for that year?
> Thanks.


I think that person cannot enter that specific lottery. They can apply for lotteries that follow in the same year, as I read it.

From the NPS River Permits Office lottery website FAQ's:
"Why is it necessary for my PATL(s) to login and 
agree to their listing on my application?
This requirement ensures the PATL(s)
 will be given the opportunity to understand 
the consequences of being listed on the application and can therefore maintain their rights.
 Once they consent online, they cannot be listed on any other 
application within that lottery.
 Further, if the application wins a trip through the lottery, the 
PATL’s points will be reset to 1 even if they do not participate on the 
trip. AskingPATLs to log in and agree to their listing on an application allows usto ensure that PATLs are prepared to make this commitment."


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## Andy H. (Oct 13, 2003)

jbomb said:


> It would be interesting to see how much permits sell for when they're auctioned off to the highest bidder under this proposal.


jbomb nailed it - allowing a PATL to be designated after being awarded your permit will open up a huge opportunity to game or profit from the system. 

My understanding is that, for better or worse, a lot of thought went into making sure the private permit system can't be gamed like this. That's why you have to name your PATL when applying, not after being awarded your permit.

-AH


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## Roberto (Aug 9, 2011)

Jbomb! AndyH. I see your point! My issue, at least among my river friends, is that anyone who would agree to be a my PATL has to forfeit their chance in the lottery for that year. It penalizes the PATL. Maybe my dog would agree to be my PATL 
Roberto


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