# lost drone on deso



## unclebat

my sis lost a drone around the turtle fossil area.... about 76.4 i think?
any info would be welcome

thanks


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## Riverwild

So you were illegally flying a drone in the wilderness?


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## Easy Tiger

Riverwild said:


> So you were illegally flying a drone in the wilderness?


If true then that's some well-deserved karma!


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## mkashzg

I wondered the same thing... I'm glad you asked the question and curious what the answer is?


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## craven_morhead

Riverwild said:


> So you were illegally flying a drone in the wilderness?


Is that accurate? I believe it's a wilderness study area, not wilderness.


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## Beeks

craven_morhead said:


> Is that accurate? I believe it's a wilderness study area, not wilderness.


I think you're correct, but if I found it I would smash it into a million little pieces......


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## craven_morhead

Beeks said:


> I think you're correct, but if I found it I would smash it into a million little pieces......


Do you run around Sand Wash smashing up outboard motors?


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## Beeks

Nope. There's tools out there for utility and safety, and then there's stuff that just feeds the users sense of self-satisfaction at the expense of others. Deso, IMO, is one of the last places that drones should be. I like 'em, great tools under the right circumstances, just not in the wilderness or WSA.


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## [email protected]

I would let the rangers know so on their inspection trips in a gas powered boat maybe they could send up a drone and look for your sister's.😏


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## jamesthomas

Gee, too bad you lost your noisy electrical toy. I just don’t think they are appropriate in any wilderness setting. My 2 cents.


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## Nanko

Good. If anyone finds this, Swasey has some nice dumpsters.


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## stone

Leave the drones and speakers at home, on all rivers.


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## planthead

unclebat said:


> my sis lost a drone around the turtle fossil area.... about 76.4 i think?
> any info would be welcome
> 
> thanks


I carry a high powered BB gun in my raft to shoot down drones. It is a lot of fun


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## MNichols

craven_morhead said:


> Is that accurate? I believe it's a wilderness study area, not wilderness.


A Wilderness Study Area is managed as if it were a full blown wilderness..


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## MNichols

craven_morhead said:


> Do you run around Sand Wash smashing up outboard motors?


Outboard motors are grandfathered in to most wilderness areas.. Drones are not.


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## craven_morhead

MNichols said:


> Outboard motors are grandfathered in to most wilderness areas.. Drones are not.


Do you have a cite to the deso regs? I looked around a bit but couldn't find anything besides the launch requirements (groover, spare, etc.)


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## MNichols

craven_morhead said:


> Do you have a cite to the deso regs? I looked around a bit but couldn't find anything besides the launch requirements (groover, spare, etc.)





https://www.blm.gov/sites/blm.gov/files/uploads/Desolation-Lotteries-Stipulations-A%20Ranger%27s%20Comments.pdf




https://www.blm.gov/sites/blm.gov/files/Utah_River_DesolationGrayCanyons_Stipulations.pdf


What's really odd is I went looking for the Green River RMP thru Deso, and couldn't find it online.. That's where the specific verbiage would be located..


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## hooligan shmulligan

Sure alot of butt hurt for a little flying toy. Was it dive bombing you and your camp ? No? Then lighten up Francis .
Everyone on there high horse being so virtuous. Shit gets old.


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## AbnMike

The poster said


hooligan shmulligan said:


> Sure alot of butt hurt for a little flying toy. Was it dive bombing you and your camp ? No? Then lighten up Francis .
> Everyone on there high horse being so virtuous. Shit gets old.



Funnily enough the original poster didn't even indicate if he was there with his sister, just that she lost a drone and asked for help. Instead got a lot of keyboard warrior responses...

Maybe it was a once in a lifetime trip and the drone simply went up to capture a bird's eye view of one day for their family on the river. Maybe it was someone's last trip and they wanted to capture it.

Or maybe she was a huge jerk flying it in people's faces, trying to get drone shots of people sitting on groovers, etc.

Hell maybe she wasn't even flying the damned thing there but it got left behind by accident.

I do want to meet the guy who can shoot a drone with a bb gun, because I'm a pretty good shot myself and that's beyond even my scope of imagination and I used to get paid to shoot flying things out of the air...


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## MNichols

Don't know about a bb gun, but a 12ga would do the trick 😂


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## TJP

Few things interrupt experiencing nature with my closest 20 friends, on neon plastic rafts, drinking warm beer, like a GD drone. 🛸


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## Riverratton

I found this on the subject:
Because the Wilderness Act restricts the use of “motorized or mechanized equipment,” drones are not allowed because they obviously have motors. Just like the National Park restriction though, the Forest Service does not have the jurisdiction to restrict or ban the flight of drones in the National Airspace. 
Despite this, it is my opinion that you should respect this restriction. While the Wilderness Act was put in place to minimize the effect that manned vehicles have on these pieces of land, the other part of the equation here is that people go to Wilderness Areas to get away from everything. I don’t think it is too much to ask to fly your drone somewhere else. Also, if you look at how much of the National Forest land is considered a Wilderness Area, it’s not a lot.
With that being said, I have NEVER seen a drone on the river and I don't think it would bother me much.They have a limited flight time and if it aint buzzing around my head no biggy. I think there are lots of other things to complain about if thats what you're into.


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## rtsideup

You kids quit flying over my lawn!


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## richp

Westwater is a WSA, yet haven't we seen drone footage from there posted without adverse remark?

FWIW,

Rich Phillips


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## 3d3vart

Unfortunately, the Green River itself in Deso is not in federally designated Wilderness. The entire RR side of the river IS federally designated Wilderness, generally up to the waterline, once you cross into Emery County (roughly 50 miles down from Sand Wash at Chandler/Trail), and has been since the signing of the Dingell Act in late 2019, which created Wilderness all over Emery County from the Swell to Desolation (Thanks Emery County! Tell your friends in Garfield and Kane!) However the RR side upstream of Emery County is still a hodgepodge of WSA and other proposed Wilderness and has not yet been designated by Congress. So, technically one can fly a drone on Deso if launched from the river (that is, it isn't Wilderness that prevents this; BLM and the Ute tribe can of course make whatever regulations they want). But there is a big difference in my book between what one can do and what one should do. Then again, I'm just an old tree hugger who thinks it isn't about me or my crappy footy for the boys.


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## MNichols

The key takeaway from that is, just cuz you can do it doesn't mean you should...


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## MNichols

richp said:


> Westwater is a WSA, yet haven't we seen drone footage from there posted without adverse remark?
> 
> FWIW,
> 
> Rich Phillips


There have been two that I know of, that have received tickets....


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## richp

Marshal, what I meant was the prior lack here of condemnation about WW drone footage, compared with this Deso situation. 

If the WW footage eventually resulted in official sanctions, bravo.

Rich


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## Pinchecharlie

Call this guy lol. He cals himself Johnnie drone hunter....merika!


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## Pinchecharlie

Fyi- some guy recently got big fines after he posted drone footage on social media flying in glacier.


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## Rightoarleft

Few clarifications. NPS does have authority to restrict aircraft in national airspace. In Grand Canyon for example, flight restrictions extend many thousands of feet beyond the standard 400' altitude. Wilderness does not have authority to restrict aircraft in airspace. Wilderness does have authority to restrict possession of aircraft within its bounds. 

Thus in the park system, you can possess a drone but you can't fly without a permit. Conversely, you can fly a drone into wilderness but neither the craft nor the pilot can touch the ground within its boundary. Generally speaking. Localized regs are increasingly complex. 

Lastly, it's fun to joke about shooting drones from the sky but be aware it's a felony. The FAA does not have a sense of humor, and they do not allow citizens to determine which aircraft are okay to shoot down. That quadcopter is not a clay pigeon. It's a multi thousand dollar autonomous aerial camera platform which, for all you know, is there on special permit or official business.


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## B4otter

Targets...


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## Osprey

Late to the party but if you are curious about restrictions, the FAA has an app called B4UFly, that drone operators use to determine restrictions on airspace. I see nothing restricting flights around Desolation. As was mentioned, the FAA doesn't really differentiate between shooting down someone's drone versus a 737, of course responsible drone owners wouldn't bother other groups, but if you do have a problem report it to the FAA. Regulations are going into place to track all drone flights, they have definitely been known to fine operators who break the rules.


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## Riverratton

There is another app called AIRMAP that dose the same. I don't think most drone pilots are out to bother anyone. Thanks Osprey and Rightoarleft for your rational input.


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## jamesthomas

I thought my input was rational. Not appropriate for ”wilderness environments”. The buzz affects mine. Invasive=no bueno.


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## trevko

Yes, I know that it is a different setting but there are sometimes unintended consequences to the things we think are cool....
3,000 eggs abandoned after drone scares birds in California - ABC News (go.com)


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## MNichols

trevko said:


> Yes, I know that it is a different setting but there are sometimes unintended consequences to the things we think are cool....
> 3,000 eggs abandoned after drone scares birds in California - ABC News (go.com)


That sucks... As if indigenous species don't already have a hard enough time....


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## AbnMike

The bird thing doesn’t make sense: do they mass abandon nests every time a predator approaches? No wonder they’re endangered.


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## unclebat

thanks for all the enlightening replies.
the ranger said he`d take a look for it (no tongue lashing included).
hey! wanna see some groover pics? me either! packing it up is enough😂
i`m happy the guitars and mandolin made it down without getting wet or destroyed by invading forces of live acoustic 
music haters (cuz haters will hate).
thanks again, really enjoyable.... stay safe out there!!


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## jamesthomas

Wow, live music on the river. Nice.


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## MNichols

jamesthomas said:


> Wow, live music on the river. Nice.


Very few things better, specially at blacktail...


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## Andy H.

Here's a post from a drone thread a few years back:

*Drone impact to wildlife*

Having known some rafters that were kind of like big ol' bears...

But seriously, I saw this article recently in the Ars Technica science section. Drones have been used in wildlife research lately, and it was thought they had little impact on the subjects due because the animals didn't show much reaction to the drones studying them. Then some researchers equipped bears with heart monitors to test that and found the bears' heart rate highly elevated, indicating lots of stress from the drones.

The results described the heaviest impact to one of the bears, but the research shows drones are a significant stressor:



> In those five-minute windows, one bear's heart rate climbed all the way from 41 beats per minute to 162, while the rest of the bears saw beats-per-minute jumps as low as 30 and as high as 80. Still, each bear had the spike in common, along with a resulting drop to a normal heartrate shortly afterward. This came despite a seeming lack of visible response, with the exception of one bear that appeared to react. The bears in the study included two mama bears and their respective cubs; a lone male bear; and a female bear on the verge of hibernation.


Here's the graphic from the article showing what happened when the flew the drone over the bear. The gray bars are the 5-minute overflights:


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## jamesthomas

I have always wanted to put together a trip of musically inclined folks. I play the mando myself.


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## MNichols

Sax and bass here


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## jamesthomas

I saw a dude once that had a stand up base made of a washtub and a composite oar. Dude was good on it. Played for a band called Blame Sally. Carbondale at Steve’s Guitars if memory serves.


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## jamesthomas

And, the bears heartbeat graphic is surprising especially because there are no obvious signs that they are freaked out.


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## GeoRon

I wish everyone was as adamantly negative about trespassing on Tribal Lands.


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## cake

Drones are a nuisance, invasive and foreign to the wilderness environment. Then again, so are humans.


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## GeoRon

Please leave your drones, boom boxes and musical instruments at home. The sound of off-key singing and attempts to play instruments are more offensive and intrusive over a distance than a drone. 

Just saying and thank you if you allow others to enjoy the canyons we went to visit for the purpose to commune with and appreciate what was there before us.


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## mkashzg

Moki Mac used to do an annual bluegrass trip on the Grand Canyon and they brought a group down to play each evening and passengers on the trip were interested in the music. I happened to camp with them at cremation once and got to see their show it was quite memorable. They had a comical song about all the quirks of boatmen which was very funny. I have also seen a small orchestra in Tuck Up and that was incredible also.


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## azpowell

And now for the 27 rendition of wagon wheel!!!! 

Just got off the grand and had a wonderful trip that included light shows at blacktail, racetrack, and surprise with amplified music.

Ive been on trips were there was "live music"... I'll take my headphones and my jbl charge 4 anyday. It's just important to boat with people who have common sense about their volume on and off the river....


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