# Stuck between a log and a hard place



## Nate Dogg (Apr 16, 2008)

"After heading to Cali last weekend for a multi-day on Deer Creek and being denied by high water, we headed to Downieville for some classic roadside whitewater. We were able to get on Wild Plum (upper NF Yuba), Lavezzola Creek, and Pauley Creek. We had plenty of sun and fun, although we did have incident on Lavezzola in the form of a river-wide log. Two of us are lucky to be here today, and for the second time this year I found myself questioning why I boat, and if it’s really worth it." 

For the rest of the story (and video), go here:

Wheels & Water: Stuck between a log & a hard place (4.3.11)

-Nate


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## Berkeley (Jan 27, 2011)

1. Dont pop your skirt right away when you pin. Could cause water to will up folding the boat and what not what not. Wait till you are ready to exit and have your hands on a rope.

2. Dont committ to the rope by rapping your hand around it, That is a huge NO NO. If shit hit the fan your could be tangled up in it under water with no way to get your hand undone.

3. Grab that powerhouse right next to you. Not your first concern but it would have been an easy grab to help your bro out and make the recovery shorter and easier.

Good learning experience im sure. Glad everyone is ok


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## Favre (Nov 17, 2010)

Thanks for sharing..
Nobody is proud of their own mishaps, BUT, sharing something like this is really a service to the sport and kayakers. Thanks for helping keep other people safe!

It is usually not a good idea to wrap your hands around the rope, however, it didn't hurt you in this instance and that rope was your lifeline. I probably would have waited a few to pull my skirt as well. However, you did a good job overall, and most importantly, you made damn sure that your body went OVER the log, as opposed to under. This is very important, we always want to go over strainers.

-Micah Kneidl


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## kaya dog (May 26, 2009)

deer creek on highway 32 ???


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## Nate Dogg (Apr 16, 2008)

*Yep*



kaya dog said:


> deer creek on highway 32 ???


That's the one.


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## kaya dog (May 26, 2009)

that's in my backyard, my wife swam the whole thing doing salmon surveys. she spent the whole summer in a wet suit and snorkel mask. her and a team had to count fish while swimming. killer job she also swam mill creek the year after. funny i hardy ever seen people creekin it, or mill. is it cus it's out in the boondocks or fast cold water ???
i know the fishin is great and yes salmon make it up too the top by highway 36
you guys should check out the feather river, crazy big drops we stop and watch kayakers, dam they have big balls. 
if anyone needs camp info,rides, a place to call home base. pm me. 
i'll hook you up. peace and thanks for coming to my neck of the woods.


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## Nate Dogg (Apr 16, 2008)

kaya dog said:


> that's in my backyard, my wife swam the whole thing doing salmon surveys. she spent the whole summer in a wet suit and snorkel mask. her and a team had to count fish while swimming. killer job she also swam mill creek the year after. funny i hardy ever seen people creekin it, or mill. is it cus it's out in the boondocks or fast cold water ???
> i know the fishin is great and yes salmon make it up too the top by highway 36
> you guys should check out the feather river, crazy big drops we stop and watch kayakers, dam they have big balls.
> if anyone needs camp info,rides, a place to call home base. pm me.
> i'll hook you up. peace and thanks for coming to my neck of the woods.


 Yeah, both Deer and Mill Creek are considered classic multi-day kayak runs. Not sure why they aren't done more.


As for the Feather, yeah I’ve done quite a bit of boater there, including the Devil’s Canyon run on the MF, Tobin/Lobin on the NF, and Little Grass Valley on the SF. I hope to do Bald Rock on the MF, as well as the South West Branch.


Thanks for the offer of hospitality. We may actually try and hit Deer on Memorial Day if flows are good. If we do I might just give you a buzz.


-Nate


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## yakkeranna (Jul 8, 2009)

Whoa, Nate, that's intense! Glad you guys are OK. I think videos like this can be great teaching tools for the kayaking community and it's cool that you're willing to share them.


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## NathanH. (Mar 17, 2010)

Wow, that video is great learning tool. I probably wouldn't know what do had this happened to me. Now I at least have a vague idea.


Thanks for sharing.
Nathan H.


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## Warren (Dec 28, 2003)

*One other note*

One other thing that caught my eye was your partner gettting up to asses the situation and not having a rope with him to deal with it. As a point I try to take a bag with me every time I get out of my boat. Even if you are just scouting then you have a bag with you to set safety for whomever may be going before you or you can hand it of too a buddy who forgot theirs if you are stepping up first. The waist band or in jacket style are a good backup. He got a good throw from your other friend but a miss could have been bad in a different situation. Yours was not as rapid as I've seen some go down hill and 15 seconds could be the difference in certain situations. Glad you are OK. Those experiences we have SHOULD make us question our sport. It helps us from getting lackadaisical and missing things we shouldn't.


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## bobbuilds (May 12, 2007)

I am glad you are ok, i can see how you brused the ribs. there is not much of an indication the wood os there. the log on the right takes your attention and then wham. I think if you went right at the rock at the top your outcome wold have been similar or worse than the guy who went before you. where did the guy in the yellow boat go ? i am guessing left like you with bow rocker from the grande went right up over the log. what is your weight and what size pure is that? just asking to compare boat design + -'s as for over or under the log I am glad you went over, and i was able to see how you torqued the rope to help get your body over the log. good choice. I am glad you are ok, thanks for all the stoke you post as well. helpful and informative.


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## Nate Dogg (Apr 16, 2008)

Warren said:


> One other thing that caught my eye was your partner gettting up to asses the situation and not having a rope with him to deal with it. As a point I try to take a bag with me every time I get out of my boat. Even if you are just scouting then you have a bag with you to set safety for whomever may be going before you or you can hand it of too a buddy who forgot theirs if you are stepping up first. The waist band or in jacket style are a good backup. He got a good throw from your other friend but a miss could have been bad in a different situation. Yours was not as rapid as I've seen some go down hill and 15 seconds could be the difference in certain situations. Glad you are OK. Those experiences we have SHOULD make us question our sport. It helps us from getting lackadaisical and missing things we shouldn't.


Actually the reason he didn't have his throwbag was because it was in his boat, which was headed downstream after he got sucked under the log and swam. BTW, That's his paddle that was pinned next to me. 

On that note, I prefer (and use) a waist mounted throwbag, and encourage everyone else to as well; it really takes the thinking out of ensuring you have a bag, and certainly would have helped in this situation. 

Good observation and points.
Nate


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## bobbuilds (May 12, 2007)

that is a jk mega rocker not a grande. mbad


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## Nate Dogg (Apr 16, 2008)

bobbuilds said:


> I am glad you are ok, i can see how you brused the ribs. there is not much of an indication the wood os there. the log on the right takes your attention and then wham. I think if you went right at the rock at the top your outcome wold have been similar or worse than the guy who went before you. where did the guy in the yellow boat go ? i am guessing left like you with bow rocker from the grande went right up over the log. what is your weight and what size pure is that? just asking to compare boat design + -'s as for over or under the log I am glad you went over, and i was able to see how you torqued the rope to help get your body over the log. good choice. I am glad you are ok, thanks for all the stoke you post as well. helpful and informative.


His boat was actually a Jackson Hero (~75 gallon). I was in a Prion Hercules, which is actually my mulit-day boat, and I don't paddle it very often; I usually paddle a Mystic. As for weight, we both come in around 175 lbs. We think the reason he was able to get over the top was because the guy (between us) that got sucked under bumped it up slightly, but this is just a guess. It also could be that we just came off the wave above differently.

-Nate


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## bobbuilds (May 12, 2007)

first guy through was in a yellow boat, left of the rock, over the log. second guy, green boat, right of the rock and under the log. third guy(you) left of the rock and under the log? right? either way glad it worked out safe.


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## Nate Dogg (Apr 16, 2008)

bobbuilds said:


> first guy through was in a yellow boat, left of the rock, over the log. second guy, green boat, right of the rock and under the log. third guy(you) left of the rock and under the log? right? either way glad it worked out safe.


Correct. However, the guy in the green boat also went left of rock, he was just a little more right than us, essentially in the center of the river.


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## ouachita (May 27, 2009)

You say this is the second incident this year. What was the first?

Glad things worked out.


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## Nate Dogg (Apr 16, 2008)

ouachita said:


> You say this is the second incident this year. What was the first?
> 
> Glad things worked out.


Here was the first one this year (it actually happened on New Years Day):
Wheels & Water: Calamity on Sweet Creek (1.1.11)


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## islandertek (Apr 4, 2008)

Glad everyone is OK!! WOW!! That video really makes you think about a lot of things......Thanks for sharing!!
Cheers!!


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## jmack (Jun 3, 2004)

Thanks for posting this. Its easy to Monday morning quarterback (maybe you should have waited to pull you skirt) but alot of the decision-making in a pin comes from how it feels (how much pressure is on your back, whether you are against the bottom, etc.), which doesn't show up in the video. Ultimately you made the right decision to go over the log and you made it happen. 

Good reminder of how a hidden log at the surface can be one of the most dangerous hazards, especially since we all get a little lackadasical about wood after paddling small creeks for a while. I couldn't see it at all in the video until you were pinned.

Love your blog and videos. Keep Deer Creek on the list. It is a great run if you can catch it.

Josh


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## pretender (Dec 23, 2008)

kaya dog said:


> that's in my backyard, my wife swam the whole thing doing salmon surveys. she spent the whole summer in a wet suit and snorkel mask. her and a team had to count fish while swimming. killer job she also swam mill creek the year after. funny i hardy ever seen people creekin it, or mill. is it cus it's out in the boondocks or fast cold water ???
> i know the fishin is great and yes salmon make it up too the top by highway 36
> you guys should check out the feather river, crazy big drops we stop and watch kayakers, dam they have big balls.
> if anyone needs camp info,rides, a place to call home base. pm me.
> i'll hook you up. peace and thanks for coming to my neck of the woods.


Two reasons why you don't see many people up there are the flow window is fairly short in normal years (this year will be an exception and Deer is on my list this year) and both are class 5, although the lower 20+ miles of Deer are rated 4/4+ (that's where I'll be)


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## pretender (Dec 23, 2008)

pretender said:


> Two reasons why you don't see many people up there are the flow window is fairly short in normal years (this year will be an exception and Deer is on my list this year) and both are class 5, although the lower 20+ miles of Deer are rated 4/4+ (that's where I'll be)


 PS. I'm referring to Deer Ck. and Mill Ck.


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## BDPADDLE (Apr 19, 2007)

That is crazy how hard it was to see the wood! Glad to hear you're all OK. 

I noticed you paddle with your wedding ring and I would suggest leaving it at home when you paddle. I don't have access to the pictures to share them, but my buddy had a serious gash in his ring finger from catching it on rock while paddling. His wife had no problem with him leaving it at home to paddle or climb once she saw the cut and the pictures . It may seem like no big deal until your skin has been pealed back to the bone and you're on one of your multi-day trips...

Cheers!


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## DlowLaxYak (Jul 27, 2009)

First off, I like that the comments have stayed positive and this situation can be discussed as a learning tool for the community. I have watched this a few times and just want to point out that the yellow boater did exactly what one should do in this situation. There was already someone on shore (sounds like it was the previous swimmer whose paddle got pinned) and after the yellow boat delivered the throwbag, he got back in the water and was ready to assist from there. It is tempting to go run and be apart of the throwbag rescue, but if the pinned kayaker had gone under the log, been knocked out, or became too injured to swim, the yellow boater is the second chance for a life saving rescue as the swimmer gets sucked downstream. 

Glad you guys got through this OK.


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## Redpaddle (Jan 10, 2007)

I'll just throw it in there, Nate is one of the safest boaters I've paddled with. He always carries 2 ropes (unless he loans one out....) and a pin kit and usually a breakdown. He takes every rapid seriously, eddy hopping and scouting as much as he can down rapids. His crew is extremely good at being aware of each other and being ready to help you out and they communicate well through the entire run.

When I saw the video it took me two times through to see the log at entry. That must have slammed into you HARD. A saving grace was that your head was above water while you were able to strategize your exit. Even after the boat was off of you I was amazed at how hard it was to get up and over that log, you had a lot of water wanting you to go under. I think there was realistically not much more to improve upon, I can understand the impulse of getting out of the boat too. With that much force underneath you dragging you down you would think that without the boat you would pop up and over no problem. You definitely weren't getting out of there without popping the skirt. 

Glad to see you made it out okay Nate! you should put up a less scary post with pretty pictures from the trip!


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## Nate Dogg (Apr 16, 2008)

Redpaddle said:


> I'll just throw it in there, Nate is one of the safest boaters I've paddled with. He always carries 2 ropes (unless he loans one out....) and a pin kit and usually a breakdown. He takes every rapid seriously, eddy hopping and scouting as much as he can down rapids. His crew is extremely good at being aware of each other and being ready to help you out and they communicate well through the entire run.
> 
> When I saw the video it took me two times through to see the log at entry. That must have slammed into you HARD. A saving grace was that your head was above water while you were able to strategize your exit. Even after the boat was off of you I was amazed at how hard it was to get up and over that log, you had a lot of water wanting you to go under. I think there was realistically not much more to improve upon, I can understand the impulse of getting out of the boat too. With that much force underneath you dragging you down you would think that without the boat you would pop up and over no problem. You definitely weren't getting out of there without popping the skirt.
> 
> Glad to see you made it out okay Nate! you should put up a less scary post with pretty pictures from the trip!


Thanks so much for the kind words Evan, I really appreciate it. I look forward to the next time we can share some lines and laughs on the river again. You're moving to CO once you get back from Bali, correct? I may need to make a trip down that way sometime soon.

-Nate


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## montuckyhuck (Mar 14, 2010)

Nate, just out of curiosity why did you pull your skirt so quickly? Seems to me like the water coming into the boat would create more downstreem drag. Was it just knee jerk or did it seem to make sence at the momen? (Not being critical at all! Just want to know).


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## Nate Dogg (Apr 16, 2008)

montuckyhuck said:


> Nate, just out of curiosity why did you pull your skirt so quickly? Seems to me like the water coming into the boat would create more downstreem drag. Was it just knee jerk or did it seem to make sence at the moment? (Not being critical at all! Just want to know).



I didn't want to get pulled underneath in my boat, since I knew there definitely wasn't enough room for both of us. At that point, I wasn't even thinking of a rope, and figured I was on my own (and needed to move quickly). 

In hindsight, had I known I'd was relatively stable and would be waiting on rope, I probably would not had popped it until it was go time. However, in the heat of the moment it seemed like the best thing to do. 

That is the beauty of having this footage and discussion, to help mentally prepare, in case there is a next time. Although, even with that, every situation is a little different and may require a different strategy. 

Hope this helps,
Nate


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## smauk2 (Jun 24, 2009)

Frauenweißenbach Full On on Vimeo

Was procrastinating when I found this video. The boater gets stuck on a strainer at about 2:10. Wood is scary.


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## islandertek (Apr 4, 2008)

jmack said:


> Its easy to Monday morning quarterback (maybe you should have waited to pull you skirt)
> Josh


 
Josh, I just love your "Monday Morning QB" comment or "Couch QB"!! SO funny!! Ha Haaaaa!! I remmember you teaching me how to kayak! People always seem to have all the answers, and can tell you how things should have been done!!! Ha Haaaa!! Love it!!! I bet a lot of the people that "know everything", haven't even taken a true swiftwater course!! 

I'm just glad he got out of there ok, and is still here to share his experience and educate us!! Thanks again!!! To everyone else on here.....let's learn from this and stay current with our SWR courses and practice it in a safe, controlled environement when possible...it could save you or your friends life.....or both!! Happy and Safe Boating to you all!!

Cheers!!
-Nick


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## montuckyhuck (Mar 14, 2010)

smauk that clip is awesome!


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## lotsawater (Nov 18, 2003)

Glad you're ok....

The least you could have done is grab your bro's paddle.


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## Nate Dogg (Apr 16, 2008)

lotsawater said:


> Glad you're ok....
> 
> The least you could have done is grab your bro's paddle.


Unfortunately I was a little worried about my life at the moment, otherwise I might have grabbed his paddle. 

By the way, to ease your concerns, his paddle was recovered shortly after.


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