# So, is anyone paddling the Black Canyon?



## badkins (Oct 30, 2003)

Seems like such a waste, last year there was all this hype about the black running over a thousand and now I haven't heard of anyone gettin it done. I checked the weather for montrose and it has been in the 50's all week, so what's the deal?


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## Schizzle (Mar 26, 2004)

I think some of us are doing Black Canyon Light (Gunny Gorge) on Saturday. Water's a boiling 36 degrees. If we make it happen, I'll post something Monday. I'm curious about how icy it would be in the hole.


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## Schizzle (Mar 26, 2004)

We ran Gunny Gorge Saturday and there wasn't even a speck of ice anywhere. Flows were 1080, water 36 degrees, and the air temp was probably high 40's to low 50's. The sun was out strong though, so it never seemed very cold. There was a little surf, but not much, mostly on-the-fly kind of stuff. I think at triple the flow some of the features could really start to have some excellent waves. Mostly it was just cool to check out a new run. FYI, the fishing was slow, too. Surprising since you almost have to arm yourself in the Black just to keep the lunkers at bay.

I think the Black is good to go for those who can deal with the cold water. I don't think even the narrows section would have any ice in it judging from the general feel of what we saw in the area. It's mighty cold when you flip though so obey the rules and stay out of the Principal's Office!


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## milo (Apr 21, 2004)

wanna go "get 'er done" badkins?.....i'm in....i've been running it thru the crane(cranium for you scientific folks!) for a bit now! .... i feel the ice dams may have melted away with the increased flows....calling rangers today to gather info....."perfect" flows....my concerns are not the h20 temps, not the air temps, available sunlight?(zip), nor the portage(except for some leg breaker holes covered by snow) or the ivy....there may be ice formed along the banks in some areas....that's ok for most of the eddies...some "situations" may develop at others....several pop into mind....that's my concern.....hey, but that's adventure right!? the added "bonus" of a six mile-downhill-hike(portage because you will have your boat right!) down crystal road to the put-in will probably have to be done in the dark-pre-boating hours of the morning.....if the rangers were nice they might bring your bike/extracycle back up the put-in road to the "entry booth" that the nice rangers use to collect fees....this is where your truck will be.....that would save you hours and energy, which may prove helpful down river! next weekend? staying upright at 1000+ might be tough....that's why they make skull caps....who wants to go in the HOLE?


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## milo (Apr 21, 2004)

crystal road is closed due to rockfall(as usual)....waiting for the BLM GUY to call me back about possible open dates.,.varies due to weather/precip...sure would be fun to get after it...i'm tracking down an extra-cycle just in case it may be a bit before the road opens.....


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## milo (Apr 21, 2004)

got the call yesterday.....2 weeks until they will open crystal road....bummer!...ripping steeps this weekend...anybody game for next weekend? i'll hire a shuttle bunny to pick us up at chukar campground($50 US).....warner trail, the "shortcut" takeout would be a nightmarish-knee blowin'-ankle/boat&ball breakin'-torture-fest with the snow and mud....i think moving cautiously(looking for ice) would take no longer than 10 hours(no epics) plus the hike out chukar...plus the bike ride with boat to the put-in......and you have portages to keep you warm!...guess what/ you get to RUN A WATERFALL!!!! come on, whio wants to go run a RIVER?


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## milo (Apr 21, 2004)

...could anybody be so delightful and nice(bored and whacked)... to accompany me(sketch) on a one day(might feel like 2) paddle of the rather GORGEous gunnsion river(blackhole)...located just outside of the gem city of...MONTROVIA(montrose)? what a lavish occassion it might be!!!(cold,wet and no cocktails).....the hotty-limo driver(shuttle bunny in a wife beater) at the WORLD CLASS TRAVEL DESTINATION(chukar campground)will have a mass of BEAUTIFUL WOMEN in extravagant clothing(PBR in bottles)...awaiting us!!!!...the world(couple of buddies) will be saying our names for years to come(couple of days)...outside magazine already wants "rights to the movie"(nobody gives a fuck)....BRAD PITT will play YOUR part(get a clue bud)!!!! HALLY BERRY will play the shuttle bunny(gulp)......JACK N. will get my part(yeh right)!!!!.........who say's you can't put a dress on a PIG........!!!!!!!!


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## danger (Oct 13, 2003)

milo,

i've never paddled it but would love to get on it. i'm only available weekdays though, like a monday-thursday run would be best. what's your schedule like? how warm isn't it down there?

let me know.


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## milo (Apr 21, 2004)

yo danger....i could pull off a week day run..i'll work the weekend or something...do you have a trailer for a kayak or an extra cycle...the road is still closed...at this point in the game(season) it would be FULL ON down there!...shit will be big in there!!! cold? yes!! fun? maybe!....are you familiar with the logistics and time frame needed to pull it off? i can pay one of my students to come and get us from chukar...it is an easy hike at 2.5 miles and 900 vert. out chukar trail...if serious call me...and i'll fill you in on what to expect....970-275-1890 let's go get it DANGER....with a name like that you'll be fine!!!!


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## danger (Oct 13, 2003)

milo,

i sent you a pm
-dan


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## milo (Apr 21, 2004)

...the only thing warm....will be thoughts of your girl and home!!...and maybe the glass "noseheater"...the gunny, she's going off....i feel for my H3...she is suffering from DEHYDRATION SICKNESS....it's winter in the butte again....


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## milo (Apr 21, 2004)

*to whom it concerns....*

beepbeep*******ALERT********..."this just in....." climber types have brought it to my attention that the north rim road is freshly opened....reports of snow along both sides of the river(portage zone and little australia)...it was also reported that large amounts of snow still clings to the walls below the south rim!!...the river was reported to be "LOUD and VICIOUS sounding"....crystal road still closed due to rockfall.....on a good note, the cruise gully is free of snow and ice(escape route if needed!)...on an off note, the climbing was reported to be fantastic...i will quote the climbers last message..." THE MONTROSE RECREATION CENTER IS OPEN FOR BUSINESS!!"....beepbeep***********


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## Mut (Dec 2, 2004)

Thanks for the update on the north rim road, I'm psyched to go get some more climbing in.

I wanted to clear up something you posted for anyone who finds themselves in need of hiking out the cruise gully. Besides the fact that once you are at the cruise gully you are almost done the real whitewater and it would be way easier to just finish the portage and head downstream, the cruise gully has two places one would need to ascend a rope or solo out some semi hard moves (5.9-5.10). The better gully to get out is the one just downstream from the north chasm view wall (gully above sandy beach bivy). There are no sections in that gully that require technical climbing.

Don't get me wrong, the right person (a strong climber, or someone with harness and ascender or prussic) could get out the cruise gully. As well, the vertical sections of the cruise gully are in the top 1/3 of the hike out and someone who needed to get out but was not aware of this section would have wasted lots of time and probably mentally wrecked at the site of a 100ft climbing section.

Milo, did your friends tell you if the ranger was back at the north rim station?


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## milo (Apr 21, 2004)

points well taken... the ranger's fixed ropes are enough to hand over hand your way out...you'd have it easy with no boat...the only reason to use cruise gully would be in the case of losing your kayak upstream and workin' your way down river....i've heard rumors that you can sketch traverse at river right at the "place where the river disappears...." to get to SOB gully... is it true? i've attained upriver from the 2nd ferry to look for the route to sob...didn't see shit, but i am not a climber so to speek....sob is much easier an exit...not too bad with a boat on your shoulder...i am sure bret will be back....great guy...if it doesn't dump snow, i am trying to get down there.. the flows have "mellowed" to regular style-high water....1,200 and up gets big and holes come alive(gulp)....


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## Mut (Dec 2, 2004)

Milo,
I've only paddled the black once but i have climbed there for 10 years and many trips. when we did the portage we took out river right after the waterfall and hiked strait the the base of the north chasm wall. there is a slight climbers trail that traverses the wall and puts you right at the sandy beach. We never crossed the river to the south rim side. I have also hiked between the two gullys a couple time scoping out climbing routes. I never understood why people said they crossed the river on the portage, like i said, if you hike to the base of the wall you'll have a easy hike. (easy if you don't mind old growth posion ivy and hiking over boulders with your boat)

The reason i asked about the ranger is that we were there last year when brett took down the fixed ropes at the end of the year and he said they would go back up when a ranger came back in the spring. The ropes were donated by a rope company and they take them down to try to preserve them. It would suck to get to where the ropes are supposed to be to find them gone.



Bottom line, don't swim in the Black


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## milo (Apr 21, 2004)

hey mut.. are you sure you did not ferry acrross after the tyrolian tranverse to the river left?.. at the climber camp?...the "little australia" portage is kinda demanding....sketchy gettin' back down to the river for the 2nd ferry....so you are saying that a nifty little climber trail ALLOWS sketch free movement to the SOB gully and the sandy beach? never heard of it... i have heard it is a "spicy", unprotected slither across polished rock, above a "for sure disappearance act"... you must have to go upwards from the river...to a terrace, then work back down to sob gully? an easy walk to the sandy beach? i wanna try this "new" route.... p. ivy is a beautiful plant(can't get it to grow up here in the butte) and shouldering a boat is a treat!(hint: shorty-poggies make great attachable portage pads)......talk to me jonny.....


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## Mut (Dec 2, 2004)

Milo,
I'm positive that we did not cross the river. I have climbed routes on both sides of the portage and know the area well. After we did the portage everyones attitude was that it was not nearly as bad as people say (but i will say our group was the type that enjoys suffering). The portage took less than an hour from takeout to put in. There may have been one or two boulder moves but I don't remember anything sketchy. We were with one dude who is scared to climb, scared of exposure, and looks like a total retard when he gets on 5.2 moves and he didn't have a problem. If i remember we put on around 8:30 and were back at the car by 4 or 5. 

I'm a little busy right now, and enjoying climbing, but if the water is still flowing there mid may Ill do a day trip with you and show you how we portaged. 

I'm climbing there next weekend (weather pending
) and I will see if i can take a picture that shows the portage.


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## Schizzle (Mar 26, 2004)

Dudes,

I have to weigh in now because I feel there's some mis-information getting posted.

First, Cruise gulley is 4th class (high exposure, hands and feet scrambling, rope is optional), but use caution when wet. I've hiked out after a climbing day gone bad in a rainstorm. My borther has hiked it when it was dry and he doesn't climb and doesn't enjoy heights either. If it was an emergency (lost boats, urgency, etc.) I would not hesitate a bit to send someone up Cruise gulley because going to SOB would add at least another 1/2 hour in portage, plus a 1/2 hour longer hike, and you need a boat for the ferries.

Secondly, while fishing last fall, when the water level was 300, I was able to cross from SOB to the other side (upto the first pool you ferry across to the S. Side) and it was sketchy getting back. I had to build a ramp with driftwood to do it. Ankle-snapper type stuff. Definitely, the way to portage with a kayak is: waterfall, walk north side, ferry to south side, walk, ferry back to north side. And on both walks stay as close to the wall (far from the river) as possible for the easiest trail.


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## Mut (Dec 2, 2004)

Schizzel,
I am not trying to put out any misinformation so i appreciate (as does everyone) your commetns. 

However, I noted that I have never had to hike out the cruise gully but i have dropped into it to climb a number of times and every time I drop in I do two rappels, one short and one longer. I have always been under the impression from listening to climbers who do hike out that to do so without ropes is sketch. My point earlier was indented to imply that if you are in a position that you need to hike out (which probably means you just had some sort of epic experience and may or may not be hurt) that you might encounter some problems ascending the cruise gully.

Is it you opinion that hiking out of the cruise gully is 4th class and the ropes that are there are really not needed? To be sure we are talking the same Gully it is the gully that drops between the north chasm view wall and the checkerboard wall, correct? 

As for your fishing trip, did you hike down the SOB and then cross the river? If so i bet it is sketch, thats why there is a Tyrolean line set up for climber access. 

All I was stating in prior posts is that I have hiked down the cruise gully, past the scenic cruise, past hallucinogen wall, past eighth voyage, into the SOB gully and then up comic relief. (yes a long approach to that climb but we were out for a look see). And I will reiterate that when we did the portage we did not ferry back across the river and I don't remember it being sketch at all. I do remember that we put back in between the porcelain arrest and the painted wall. I'll also add that that was many brain cells ago, I have been wrong in the past, and have no problem being corrected.

I'm not even claiming Im right, Im just stating what we did.

Maybe we should all go paddle it twice, two consecutive days, one day we'll do the ferry portage and one day we'll do the no ferry portage. 

On a side note, I never thought Id surf the internet this much. I guess Id rather be dreaming about play than actually working. 

Out,
Mut


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## Schizzle (Mar 26, 2004)

I'm too stupid to figure out how to add quotes so I'm just going to reply.

I'm definitely talking about the cruise gulley. The ropes are nice for descending because downclimbing in the dark hours of morning with full gear takes time. However, the hike out isn't too bad and it's really direct. You don't follow the line of the rappels, it's more climber's right than where you'll find the ropes, but it doesn't take much route-finding skills. You do need two hands and two feet. It would be tough with a tweeked shoulder.

I just don't see how you'd get past the ferries, I guess. Since you're a climber, you know the route Moveable Stoned Voyage? You get a good (birds eye!) view of that whole area from that route and there's just no way.

I'm confused about your tyrolean comment, too. The only tyrolean I know off is below the hallucinogen wall and it strands you beneath South Chasm View wall. I'd say it's kind of a climber's only thing since it doesn't go anywhere but to routes (like The Flakes and Astro-Dog).

Yeah, I'd rather be doing something fun, too.


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## matobs (Nov 26, 2003)

The cruise gulley is 4th class overall and certainly does not require any 5.9/5.10 moves. I've climbed up it at night without a headlamp, although my partner had one and would shine it down on me. Overall there's only a few short sections of scrambling (5th class) that are usually rapped on descent - mostly b/c its faster and safer. Downclimbing is considerably harder and more dangerous than going up.

in my opinion, any person who is kayaking down in the black probably could make it out the cruise if they are not injured. 

Also Schizzle, MP showed my a way to get to the SOB Gulley w/out crossing the river. It's hidden and requires a small amount of scrambling but just know that its there if you need it.


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## Schizzle (Mar 26, 2004)

Secret passages are way cool. . .


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## milo (Apr 21, 2004)

...like a virgin....wanna do the secret portage for my very first time.... i took MP down on his first run and we portaged left at little australia... he pointed up to his pig routes and never mentioned it....chachi


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## milo (Apr 21, 2004)

***********beep beep******ALERT*******this just in.....while trying to encourage the rangers to bring a bicycle(s) back up the crystal road(never got a "NO")...i was informed that crystal road is closed to ALL forms of traffic known to man.....3 problem rockslide areas have yet to rip out......the visitor protection agency(no shittin')has deemed it too sketchy to allow any traffic down.....this creates vaccuum(this "sucks", for you non-science folks).....pray for rain!?.....******beep beep*******


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## milo (Apr 21, 2004)

*FOR THOSE WHO CARE.....*

*********ALERT********ALERT******* "this just in".....flows expected to increase 125cfs per 12hrs....starting saturday(today) ending monday of next week...max output is expected to reach 2250cfs, of which 500cfs will be lost to the gunnison tunnel....this will leave up to 1800cfs thrashing its way down the canyon....crystal road is still closed but a "rangerman" is working out if he/they can provide courtesy rides for "abandoned bicycles"....sounding better.....heavy snow still blocks portages on river left and some areas on river right....he felt confident that the crystal road may be opened by the middle of next week or the following.....NO word on the rumored 4000+ releases.....gunny gorge would be fun....the HOLE would be...."FUCKING HARD"........beepbeep**********


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## milo (Apr 21, 2004)

*...."for those about to rock, we salute you...!"*

******beepbeep*****ALERT*****this just in....flows are up(meow)......the crystal road is open!(gulp).....anybody going to go "pee" the Black?......NOTE:drink extra fluids prior to your trip.... you will urinate more than ususal.....sometimes twice per scout......expect waves, holes, fun-meter overloads, rocks, walls, eddies, rodeo practice, boofs, portages and "bad places" of all sizes....cost is $7.00(US) per truck-load of nature lovers(kayakers)....seasons pass is only $15.00(US) for unlimited truck-loads of nature lovers(multisporters and kayakers).....improved campsites at the put-in provide(but do not gaurantee) opportunities for good sleep the night before....new bear-proof-lockers must be loaded with your food and coolers or the rangers and or the bears will take your nutrition and sports beverages(no shittin').....wear helmets and PFDs......pack out(smoke) what you pack in.....be kind to the vegetation in the canyon(ivy has feelings too).....and as always......waatch yourself.....********************beepbeep*************sunday?275-1890


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## CBrown (Oct 28, 2004)

Milo, 
Its all about drinking that sardine juice in the tin that pulls you through.


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## Larsen (Oct 20, 2003)

Milo,
Im dehydrating some carne as i type this, weather looks good sunday for a quick run at some exciting flows, i just need to find a boat because my Jeffy is not here yet, be there or be L7, have a good trip on wastewater. I have shuttle bunny, see you there sunday morning
Henge


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## milo (Apr 21, 2004)

....c.brown.....how are you?...long time no see....the days of carbo loading and salmon with olive oil(high octane fuel) are over.....salmon is still ritualistic....the days of 3-4 nalgenes of h20 and gatorade are but a memory....last run-1250cfs, bagel, snickers, 2 sips of water(read:2 sips), 2 safety meetings, 1 beating.....chukar trial-1/2 hour....one of our boys was slow comming out(parkito)....seeing how i never miss out on a chance to do "teamwork"(shouldering somebody elses boat!), i went for him(i figured he'd trade a heavy boat for a cold one).... i heard him talking to himself, convincing himself.......this is what i heard, over and over....." i am a man, i am a man, i am a man...", and he was..... larsen, we'll get you a boat....how much fun will the 18ft riverwide "pourover" be?....DOUBLE TROUBLE?, LOWER INTESTINE?, CCCCCATCH THAT EDDY? PRINCIPAL'S OFFICE?, NARROWS PINCH?, PILLOW MOVE?, COWBOY? KATIE'S PLACE(after katie nietert's hole ride and recirc) BBBBBALL CRUSHER? PINBALL CITY(aka SIEVE CITY)?, LARSEN'S LEDGE?...JSJEU&&%$##:::::<.,><,fFrReDsWQA...sorry folks, i just puked on the keyboard! one more boater would be great for a sunday run....not looking to get into RIPLEY'S BELIEVE IT OR NOT(running the huge, dangerous GNAR!!!.....Just looking to traverse the canyon safely....out for a "look see"....


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