# Dislocated Shoulder --- need advice / info



## storm11 (Feb 10, 2006)

Can't say this will help much with paddling, but a close friend of mine has chronic shoulder dislocations (he's popped it out well over 100 times). He wears a brace when skiing that limits his range of motion, enough to where it won't pop out, but he can still pole plant. He says that since he started wearing the brace he hasn't had a dislocation while skiing.


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## CUkayakGirl (Mar 31, 2005)

hey,
early last year my buddy dislocated his shoulder doing a hand roll and after rehab he was fine. He has never told me it has been a problem paddling again. The doc also said he was lucky and didn't need surgery...so maybe it just depends how badly you tear it up.


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## COUNT (Jul 5, 2005)

Check out Jim Garrick's "Everybody's Sports Medicine." It's an excellent book I use for skiing, kayaking, etc. I know Jim and he is a superb doctor and has been one of the leading sports medicine specialists since the 50's and 60's. It has a great should recovery routine (for once you're out of a sling) and has a plethora of other useful information. Good luck.

COUNT


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## Philip (May 4, 2004)

This sport is too friggin' cool to sit around nursing a broken wing. My advise is don't fret the surgery if you can afford it. I've dislocated both my right and left shoulders and only after having the anthroscopic procedure have I regaind full (we're talkin' 110% baby!) stability, stregnth, and confidence in my wings. 
Rehab is a piece of cake, plus you'll have plenty of narcs left over to share with you're friends. 
It only took one winter, two surgerys, and three months, and I was ready for the next run-off. Go big...Go BIONIC!


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## KSC (Oct 22, 2003)

Sorry to hear about your injury. No medical training, but from what I've gathered the shoulder is a very unstable joint and once you've dislocated it, it's much more likely to dislocate again. The degree to which it does depends on ligament and other damage that occurred during the dislocation. Sounds like your prognosis may be good. A rest followed by a good consistent strengthing program may give you good results. 

I think your choice is not: can I ski and paddle again, but do I need surgery or not to ski and paddle again. And you'll have to weigh the importance of shoulder stability against risks of surgery. I can tell you if I had dislocated my shoulder 100 times like the guy mentioned above, I'd be in the operating room.

I would suggest finding an orthopedist that you feel comfortable with and is willing to spend some time talking with you about the two options. Talk to him very specifically about your athletic goals - make it clear that your goals extend beyond painting the fence and mowing the lawn. Don't be afraid to get several opinions. It's an awfully important decision.

I think you know the conservative option: Rest it, work like crazy to strengthen it, start playing like you always have and see what happens. If it dislocates again, you've probably got your answer..

I sure wish there was more education and training oriented towards preventing dislocations when paddling. I try to keep my shoulders safe, but I know sometimes I throw dangerous braces.

Good luck.


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## dickyp26 (May 27, 2006)

I severley to the fullest degree dislocated my shoulder and tore just about everything off. I did opt to have arthroscopic surgery and it took about 1 year to feel like I could do most things with my shoulder and about 2 years before I can say it feels as good as it is going to get. The only thing I can't do with confidence is throwing overhand, like throwing a baseball or football. I can however still throw overhand it just seems to hurt some and I am very afraid of going 100% with it, other than that it is perfect. The more active I am, disc golf, kayaking, rock climbing, whatever the better my shoulder is because it is strong. When I am less active I seem to have more problems with it. You should be okay, but depending on the severity of it, I would suggest surgery, if not you will be dealing with another injury soon or it will just continue to pop out until you do have the surgery.


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## Philip (May 4, 2004)

KSC has a great point...definately research your options and be DAMN sure you get the right guy with the right experience if you decide to have surgery. 
Two days before I had my first scheduled surgery a physical therapist friend told me she'd never even heard of the doctor I was about to have operate on me. That's some pretty scary shit when you stop to think about how tight the sports medicine community is around here. 
Anyway, she recommened a doctor that turned out to be one of the guys that pioneered the anthroscopic procedure. All it took was a recomendation from my general practitioner, a letter to my insurance co., and I had one of the best surgeons in the country helping me through all this shit. Not only that, but after I was healed he invited me to go kayaking in Costa Rica with his family. Now that's one super-fly, TNT, mofo, mofo. 
Point is, if you feel good about the situation, you'll love the results. Good luck! Hope you get back on the river soon.


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## stinginrivers (Oct 18, 2003)

Not sure if this will help, but here goes anyway.

I dislocated my shoulder over 100 times between skiing, boating and just about anything else like getting dressed or waking up. 

2 years ago I went in for a Labrum repair and it was awesome.. I could raise my arm over my head and everything ( keep in mind it is the lttle things )
It was all great until thursday night I popped it out again.

Just got home from my doc and he just wants me to strenghten it on my own and see how it goes. I will probably stop boating for a bit until it gets strong again I figure maybe a month or so. Then I will start in easier water to get used to it again.

So in short the surgery I had was totally worth it, but unfortunately you don't get a warranty on it. 

I bet if I would have stayed on the strength training regime I did for therapy this wouldn't have happened a second time.

That is good advice about getting the right doc. Mine doesn't spend a lot of time with me but he is super good. 

If you have any questions PM me
Danny


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## jennifer (Oct 14, 2003)

I dislocated 6 years ago and never had surgery. It was an anterior dislocation and was out of socket for over 4 hours. My shoulder has never been the same, but also has not restricted my activities! I still kayak, ski, and bike. Sometimes when rolling on my off-side (especially during a combat situation where I'm not perfectly set up), it will sublexate and I get kind of freaked out. I do NOT want to dislocate again! Just keep your elbows down and do the rehab. If you get recurrent dislocations, deffinately consider surgery.


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## asleep.at.the.oars (May 6, 2006)

There seemed to be some talk of doing PT through this thread, but I don't think it's importance can be over-emphasized. The shoulder joint is a ball and socket, but (unlike the hip) not a very sound one. It has all the inherent stability of a softball resting on a soup spoon. You've got two things holding it all in place, muscles and ligaments. If you tore (or even stretched) the ligaments, you're down to just muscles keeping your arm attached. Whatever course you take, adhere to the PT schedule religiously for as long as you want to lead an active life. You can stop wearing out those over-sized rubber bands when you finally decide to trade the paddle in for a remote. Good luck, stay with it, and you'll be back to 100% before you know it.


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## afox (May 10, 2004)

So what's the best way to prevent a shoulder injury from paddling as far as technique and preventive PT?


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## Spankinamos (Jun 5, 2006)

*Question for Phillip...*

Sounds like your orthopedic surgeon was also a kayaker. I'm scheduled to have an operation on my shoulder next month. I didn't completely dislocate, but did subluxate to the point that I tore my labrum to some degree. My orthopedic surgeon is excellent. He operates on professional athletes (mostly MLB pitchers) daily. My concern is he does not kayak, never has, has never operated on a kayaker's shoulder, and probably does not really know what a kayaker's shoulder goes thru. 

Who was your surgeon? Is he in the Denver area?

Sounds like you've had good success with your labral repair. Care to elaborate any further?


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## bigern (Jun 5, 2006)

dude, I did the same thing on bridges last week. Painful!


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## festivus (Apr 22, 2006)

Ken Duncan is a class five boater and O surgeon at OCR in the fort.


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## markd (May 18, 2006)

*can depend on age and severity*

I subluxated (the bone goes up on the edge of the capsule, then goes back in) a lot after messing up my shoulders skiing in college. I finally went to a sport physiologist at age 30, went on a twice per week workout regimen, and never subluxed for 10 years. Then I blew it out in Panama last fall. Torn labrum, ligaments, the works. I had the arthro surgery and while I have not recovered 100% range of motion, its great. I can paddle.

If you are over 40, PT is usually the way to go. If you are under 40 or really tore it up, surgery is a good option. If you do get cut, make sure you start PT ASAP. BTW, PT is not that painful in IMHO.


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## Philip (May 4, 2004)

Hey Spankinamos,

My doc's name is Jon Erickson out of Lafayette. He doesn't kayak himself, but loves the sport. Hell, kayaking injuries has probably paid for more than a few of his vacations. I heard he does about 250 shoulder surgeries a year, so I imagine he's got experience with just about every possible way you can blow out a labrum.

Both my shoulders had severe anterior tears (front side out) from two different injuries. The first one took me so long to rehab that there was no friggin' way I was gonna' to sit on the sidelines for another 2-3 years while I nursed the second one back into shape. 

More about the procedure...

I had three anchors put around the "cup" of my right shoulder and four anchors positioned around the "cup" of the right shoulder. Each one is fashioned like an eye-bolt with a sucher attached. Once they are in place the doc threads the sucher through the cartledge wrapped around my ball joint and ties it down. In addition to being able to really rachet the joint back into place, it apparently allows the labrum to readhere to the other goo that makes up the whole ball/joint assembly. 

After that the socket is pretty dang secure, in fact, most of the PT is focused on loosening up the newly attached labrum while rebuilding the sorrounding muscle. Pretty cool stuff, and typically these operations go so well that the biggest problem is that people tend to feel too good, too quick. If the surgery fails it's usually b/c the patient thinks they're totally healed. Getting full range and stregnth back can be very deceptive. So watch out, do the PT and don't push it too hard. When all the scarring is healed THEN you can go full bore. 

Hope that helps. Later!


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## dan hamann (Jun 1, 2004)

Sorry to hear about the shoulder. I have had both of my shoulders operated on and I am back kayaking class V. There is hope! One injured from kayaking and one from skiing. I am not a doctor but have spoken to my doctor quite a bit about shoulder injuries. Typically when you go in for the first visit they check your strength, move it around, and recommend PT for awhile. If you dislocate again they will order an MRI. An MRI is the only way that they can really tell if you have torn something and need surgery. When I hurt my second shoulder the doc said that they almost always go the PT rout first (cheaper and most people can recover). However, I insisted on an MRI as it had been over a month and my shoulder was still very weak, and I didn't feel like experimentally finding that my shoulder had a tear by dislocating again doing something in the backcountry. So, they did and MRI, it was torn and they operated. Long story short, no MRI, no real way to tell whether there is actually a tear or not. I don't mean to scare you, but something to chew on. I have a friend who dislocated kayaking, went to the doc, doc recommended rest and PT. He followed the instructions religiously went back kayaking. Later in Bailey we had to put his shoulder back in. Then the doctor ordered an MRI would it have been found the first time?

If you get surgery the PT is very, very, important and will determine the success or failure of your surgery. I have heard of many people who have had shoulder surgery and more problems later because they slacked on PT. It is easy to forget and just kind of a pain in the ass, but its worth it. 

As far as avoiding injury kayaking, keep your elbows in.
best of luck
Dan


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## WisegirlII (Apr 14, 2006)

And make sure to use the RUBBER BANDS if they give them to you for PT (right Slick?), because as was said above... we all know people who have slacked on their physical therapy and a good friend of mine is positive you live and or perish by those things... use the rubber bands.


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## mrekid (May 13, 2004)

PROLOTHERAPY,
It works and you don't have to go under the knife. I partially separated both, the left worse than the right. After years of pain and discomfort I finally gave it a try and after three sessions and four hard paddling seasons later I can say i am having my right done this fall. I wont lie to you it hurts, but if you can get beyond the short term pain (2 days) the results are fantastic, cheap (relatively), and you can use your arm again within a week. This is not a process you can opt for right now as you need to go through the initial 6-8 week healing process but this fall call up the Doc because you can have a shoulder stronger than it was before without costly surgery with a substantially shorter recovery. 
My 2 cents 
Dano 
Does anyone else think i should sell used cars?


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## J Rock (May 19, 2005)

Wow.

I'm always surprised at the number of people who will respond to questions on this board. Thanks for all the comments. It sounds like a good rest, a commited workout and rehab program and crossed fingers are all I can do (for the time being.) Thanks for the comments. 

J-


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## wwswampgirl (Apr 10, 2006)

Hey Jason! Sorry to hear about your shoulder. What kind of tests did your DR. order. You may want to think about an MRI. It's the best way to visualize those ligaments to see how much damage has been done without direct visualization with arthroscopy. All the suggestions previous to mine are right on. Make sure you rest it, then do the rehab as instructed. It will be an ongoing process for the rest of your life to keep it strong. It is true, once dislocated and each time after it becomes more lax and easier to dislocate. Once you start kayaking keep the wings in and become very protective of it. Shoulder injuries and the no. 1 injury for kayakers. Warm ups and stretching need to be done prior to your runs. And make sure you have a good Ortho taking care of you. I work with sev. good ones here in the ER in Aspen. Good Luck! Dee


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