# Fort Collins Playpark



## Buckrodgers (Feb 28, 2007)

Hey everybody,

Up at BTO a week-ish ago my crew got a survey from someone at CSU about the whitewater park being long considered right off of College AVE. Apparently there is some new momentum again and private money, so I just wanted to say heads up and make sure everyone expresses their support for this and fill out those surveys. Thought it was odd that we hadn't heard anything about this on the buzz recently.

I for one am tired of driving out of town for play features (real ones--there is nothing legendary about the Legend) and spending money elsewhere when I want to do it here (except for BV--those features are too good!!). Bizarre that we are the only boating community around without a WW park...

Also, if anyone has any more info, let us know what's up...


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## loot87 (Jun 30, 2008)

I thought that's what the Bridges was.


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## smauk2 (Jun 24, 2009)

Lets be honest the play on bridges is amazing considering its natural but you can't really compare to a man made feature. Its difficult to hone in my play skills when the closest decent water park is an hour away. Plus if this park is done well it's going to be booming.


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## jeffy (Sep 17, 2004)

I'm guessing the "money" is still around, can anyone comment?

Also, what happened with the Lyons Park/Laporte attempt? Any update there?



With the new development ideas near harmony and I-25, it seems Fort Collins is more interested in the river these days.


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## Nathan (Aug 7, 2004)

I would never call the play on Bridges amazing at any level. I would go as far as to say it sucks. An eddyline does not make good play spot. A wave with bad eddy service that is ok only at certain levels does not make amazing considering its natural. 1.5 at high water would be an example of amazing natural spot, not BTO.

In my opinion, what Ft. Collins needs is someone who is like Mike Harvey was for Salida when their park was built; motivated and will go the distance to see it done. At the rate it's going in 5 years we will still be at the same spot wishing we had a play park.


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## smauk2 (Jun 24, 2009)

Nay Sayer!


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## mrekid (May 13, 2004)

Just to be clear, the money being described as new by the survey giver is the same money we raised about 5 years ago. Currently the city has the project on hold, waiting on the NISP decision. It has been over 12 years now since the first proposal for a park was submitted to the city and still no real movement. If you ask me I say we can the Fort Collins play park, take our money back, and move it to Laporte where the city might be interested in the project.


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## jeffy (Sep 17, 2004)

Glad to see it's still intact.


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## Buckrodgers (Feb 28, 2007)

mrekid said:


> Just to be clear, the money being described as new by the survey giver is the same money we raised about 5 years ago. Currently the city has the project on hold, waiting on the NISP decision. It has been over 12 years now since the first proposal for a park was submitted to the city and still no real movement. If you ask me I say we can the Fort Collins play park, take our money back, and move it to Laporte where the city might be interested in the project.


I also heard a rumor that New Belgium was on board. not sure about that, but with their sponsorship of FibArk and seeing Oskar Blues sponsoring LOG, they should throw money behind this project. Hell, if they just set up a beer tent down there after the playpark is built that would pay for the whole project.

I heard way back that they were waiting on NISP, but what always made me wonder about that was that regardless of NISP, the town flows are so variable anyhow. It seems like the best way to make features work there is to design several features that are optimal at different flows, especially low flows, since town only stays high for a short time.

Talking to one of the Lyons locals a couple days ago though, it is amazing how they seem to be so on the ball down there, and even have a fund set up to make improvements every year.

It is crazy that we can't get this done--improving that corridor for all river users, not just kayakers, would be such a boon to the city...a no brainer!


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## loot87 (Jun 30, 2008)

It all got started with one diehard, Arn Hayden. He got Oskars on board and they did a benefit and silent auction to raise money. I think he got some donated rock from the quarries and maybe some time with a back-hoe thing.

Seems like FTC could pull it off no sweat if we can.


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## jeffy (Sep 17, 2004)

I agree. This is a good thing for Fort Collins, not just the boating commuinity. The Mason Corridor project would also benefit from another "feature" to the new transit system. I'm fairly sure they've already got approval for funds...

http://www.fcgov.com/mason/ for more info on the MC.


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## mrekid (May 13, 2004)

New Belgium has been on board for some time now. A sizable portion of the original 60K that was raised for the FC play park came either directly or indirectly through New Belgium. In my opinion the problem isnt money, though we do still need contributing funds, but rather a lack of interest on the cities part. We have been wondering why and activley pursuing a park in Fort Collins for the better part of the last 12 years and the city continually stalls even when they are handed a lump some of cash. It seems that no matter what the boating community does the city finds another excuse to drag their feet. Sadly, it seems pretty clear to me where this project is going.


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## jeffy (Sep 17, 2004)

Come up boating tonight 6 bto... we'll talk about it. Jeep Wrangler, green 4fun.


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## JJH (Oct 14, 2003)

If anyone wants to try and run with this and form a committee, I am happy to keep going. I started working on this with Matt at the Mountain Shop when I was at CSU in 98. and have a huge file box full of info. I did help with the recent CSU survey and there were a lot of bad questions /theories before I got my hands on it and still needed more tweaking. But with CSU working on it and a new energized committee, things are possible.

Here are the current issues at hand that I got from the Parks Dept last year.
The previous oil contamination and clean up that happened between the College Ave bridge and lower down stream. That clean up was very expensive for the City and the EPA and a dig in that area that goes wrong could cause the City/EPA Millions. So looking upstream at Legacy park area has been happening, but would require lots of channeling/ river work. 
NISP.Until we know flow predictions/guarantees of this area, it would be tough to build a feature that actually performs the way we want it. 

The fund actually has a small amount of money needed to make this happen the way we would want it to or the way the City would require it done.

Again, if we create a strong well represented committee, I will take it to the City and I have some ideas how we can make a rukus and get some attention and potential for some action. (Bohemian Grants are also available) But I need someone(s) else to help organize, run, setup meetings, take notes, etc.


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## Buckrodgers (Feb 28, 2007)

JJH said:


> If anyone wants to try and run with this and form a committee, I am happy to keep going. I started working on this with Matt at the Mountain Shop when I was at CSU in 98. and have a huge file box full of info. I did help with the recent CSU survey and there were a lot of bad questions /theories before I got my hands on it and still needed more tweaking. But with CSU working on it and a new energized committee, things are possible.
> 
> Here are the current issues at hand that I got from the Parks Dept last year.
> The previous oil contamination and clean up that happened between the College Ave bridge and lower down stream. That clean up was very expensive for the City and the EPA and a dig in that area that goes wrong could cause the City/EPA Millions. So looking upstream at Legacy park area has been happening, but would require lots of channeling/ river work.
> ...


I would be happy to be on the committee. I am a CSU professor and very visible in the arts/music community in town here, for what that's worth (not much probably). I think if we can get some folks on this committee who have some good community connections it would help. Whatever the case, I think with the slow economy now is a great time to press this, as it can bring a good deal of additional revenue to the city over time. We need to push the benefits to the city, not just whine that kayakers need features (although that is secretly what I want of course...).


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## sarahkonamojo (May 20, 2004)

JJ, sign me up. Seriously, this is my town.
I am not much of a committee person, but when tasked, I get it done.
Sarah D


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## smauk2 (Jun 24, 2009)

I'm going to be a sophmore at CSU this semester and I am willing to put forth time and effort


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## mandyk (Aug 18, 2004)

*Play wave for LaPorte is also gaining momentum*

Hi Folks,
On a related, but slightly different note, I'm proposing we build a whitewater feature, or three, at Lions Park in LaPorte. I have just had some encouraging discussions with the immediate neighbors, the County, and some Colorado Division of Wildlife folks (they own the land at Lions Park, LaPorte) about the prospect of an integrated whitewater park (maybe up to 3 features)+enhanced fish habitat project. 
As soon as I get my information assembled, we will post it on the Rock Report website and be asking for a show of support for the idea from as many people as possible - I will be formally presenting the idea on July 22nd to the Larimer County Open Space Advisory Board. It would be great to have lots of boaters/fisher people there to show support, and I am hoping to get letters of support from LOTS of people before that so that I can wave a wad at the board - more on this when we get it posted! 
We will have to raise the money for it (or donations of materials or expertise), but consider that all the 'other' services already exist at this site, its only the river bed and banks that would need work!!! And as its on the bike path, you might not even have to drive there!


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## smauk2 (Jun 24, 2009)

Mandy where would you like these letters to go?


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## Jahve (Oct 31, 2003)

Buckrodgers said:


> I would be happy to be on the committee. I am a CSU professor and very visible in the arts/music community in town here, for what that's worth (not much probably). I think if we can get some folks on this committee who have some good community connections it would help. Whatever the case, I think with the slow economy now is a great time to press this, as it can bring a good deal of additional revenue to the city over time. We need to push the benefits to the city, not just whine that kayakers need features (although that is secretly what I want of course...).


 
We started here in BV with a couple of biz naz owners, a doc, a teacher, and some other folks who were very visible in the community. The make up of the folks pushing for the play park does have a lot to do with it from what I have seen. I know BV is way different than Ft Collins but it cant hurt to get away from the dirt bag kayaker image.

Good luck as I hope someday you guys in Ft Collins make me eat my words that no one even owns a playboat up there.. Keep pluggin away and good things will happen!


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## adrock (Apr 28, 2004)

Hey all, Adrian here. 

I think most of you know this but I have been involved with this project off and on and at varied levels of commitment for about 7 years (have worked with JJ and Matt on it). I/we helped raise a lot of money and awareness via showing films I made here at NB. My impression from Matt was that we handed the project off with all the elements needed to the city (5 years ago - with enough funding to get it started). At that point it was up to them (the city) to carry the torch and push it through. Initially I emailed and called the city person in charge of this project a lot as I didn't want this momentum to die, and every time I got a different excuse for why they weren't getting it done... I pretty muched stopped trying as I didn't have the time to continue pursuing it and it felt like I had no real way to leverage or influence the city any further. It pretty much felt like they didn't care about the project and see the value in it. It wasn't a priority for them...

Lately I have been emailing all the city counsel members weekly and I am kind of fired up that they have sat on their hands for so long. Its not fair that we did all this work for the betterment of our great city, its river, its people and the downtown area. This year I am committed to making this park happen and I have been leveraging social media to put pressure on the city and to connect with local businesses. Already the Town Pump Owner is ready to give money and wants to help push this forward. I want to talk to the RIO, The Bohemian Foundation and New Belgium (where I work). 

Lets get this done. I think having a park in Laporte is GREAT too but we should have both, I want people in old town to be able to ride to this park and enjoy it for boating, fishing and just chilling with friends and family. It would an epic park from College to Riverside!

I think the cities approach to NISP is just another excuse that allows them to put this decision off... We are against NISP/Glade as a city and a community so why are we planning around it! Plus, Nisp/Glade will only pull peak flows off the river in May and June. Water flows vary so much any way from year to year....

Please email:

*Darin Atteberry [[email protected]];
Doug Hutchinson [[email protected]]; 
Diane Jones [[email protected]]; 
John Stokes [[email protected]]; 
Marty Heffernan [[email protected]]

Subject: Build a River Park in Downtown Fort Collins!

Content: 
From College to Riverside, Fort Collins should have had the best River Park in Colorado 5 years ago. River play parks generate millions every year, connect people to their local river and restore watersheds to healthy eco-zones in downtown
corridors. Think ROI, build the park now!*

Cheers, Adrian M Glasenapp
New Belgium Brewing/Creative Under Velocity


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## adrock (Apr 28, 2004)

JJ, I'm down to get our efforts organized into a committee and Jake at the town pump wants to get a petition going... I'll organize a meeting and annnounce it on Facebook and The Buzz.
WE could meet here at NB once every week or two weeks. I want to crush this so we can start building this late summer/fall. I am completely over waiting on the city to do this, we need to help them move it forward...


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## adrock (Apr 28, 2004)

*Salida park pics...*

Could be so good


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## adrock (Apr 28, 2004)

*loop*

mmm


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## RiverWrangler (Oct 14, 2003)

FuckYa!!!! It's time to start petitioning on a daily basis. I am emailing the council members tonight. Everyone else do the same. Facebook page tonight maybe too. I don't have time for this but it must happen so I'm stayin up late, again. We need to apply some force in numbers. I'm innnnn!!!!


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## RiverWrangler (Oct 14, 2003)

Copy of my expanded letter

*Dear City Officials,

I am a part of a group of local businessmen and river enthusiasts who for the better part of a decade have been working on raising funds, designing and attempting to have built a river park in Downtown Fort Collins. The money has been raised, the park has been designed and the city has drug its collective feet for many too many years. It is time to get this done. The city wants to revitalize the north side of downtown, this is one of the best ways to get it done. The city wants to (needs to) generate some new sources of revenue, this is a great way to get it done. The community is behind it and there is no reason not to proceed.

From College to Riverside, Fort Collins should have had the best River Park in Colorado 5 years ago. River play parks generate millions every year, connect people to their local river and restore watersheds to healthy eco-zones in downtown corridors. Think ROI, build the park now!*

Thank you,
Evan Stafford
13 year Fort Collins resident 80524


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## yourrealdad (May 25, 2004)

Evan? Littlin keeping you up. You guy can use me and abuse me while I am in town. Help out any way I can. my mom was on the down town plan group, I will see what I can swing


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## RiverWrangler (Oct 14, 2003)

Facebook Page

Welcome to Facebook


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## twitch (Oct 16, 2003)

Why would you guys ever want to build a whitewater park in the heart of your community for all to enjoy? You should really consider somewhere alongside a highway, preferably as remote a location as possible, and if possible atop an awesome pre-existing feature or drop. I've heard the Middle Narrows being tossed around - would that be good?

In all seriousness, best of luck to you gentlemen. It would be an excellent addition to the Fort Collins community and a great place for old aging boaters to gather and tell stories of days gone by.


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## jeffy (Sep 17, 2004)

AWESOME. 

I think we can rally and get this done. Most importantly, we need to let the city know what _we_ can do for them. They've got a lot on their hands with all of the projects in town, but they need to know the true benefits of having a playpark in old town will bring. 

Adrian, well said about NISP. This project is YEARS from stumbling to completion even if it does pass. There's no reason that Fort Collins should sit around and wait for it. Once it's complete, its another weapon in the Fort Collins economic quiver to push _against_ NISP with. 

I'm thinking of writing a letter to Gary Wockner along with the other addresses. He will certainly be on our side and is a very public figure in the Fort Collins community. 

How about a Tour De Fat playpark float? A bunch of us can group together and get the word out to however many thousands of people that join NB and the celebration of alternative transportation. 

The fishing department at Jax is a goldmine. There are so many fisherman in town that would be stoked to have this asset in the community. I'm fairly sure that some literature down there could pay off. Just some ideas to start. 

Evan, JJ, Adrian, and the rest of us Poudre paddlers are the roots of the boating community, we deserve this as much as the city does. Count me in.

Jeff


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## ldebell (Apr 26, 2005)

I'm currently the chairwoman on the Land Conservation and Stewardship Board (city advisory board for the open space/natural areas program), if this would/could fit into the natural areas program in some way and there are actual plans that could be presented I could try and get this on an upcoming agenda. While I have very little time to donate right now, if I can help make the right connections let me know. Jeff has my personal contact information if you all need to get a hold of me, email works best.

Linsey


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## Paul (Oct 11, 2003)

Here's an opportunity to provide some input to the city, or at least see how a whitewater park fits into the Community Vision:

*Shaping the Future: Community Workshop (June 29 and 30) *

Help Shape Fort Collins - How will we live, work, play, and travel in the future? Review the draft Community Vision and learn what changes it might take to accomplish the vision. Understand trade-offs and costs of different policy choices. Help define preferred directions. Activities will occur throughout the evening and will be repeated at a morning session. See the event schedule below to determine what works best for you.

News & Events: City of Fort Collins


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## duncleston (Jul 31, 2007)

Hey, guys--

This is a great time to push hard for this. The city is in the midst of an update to the long-term city plan (Plan Fort Collins: City of Fort Collins). I know how frustrating it has been working with the city over the years, but the park will not happen without buy-in from council, and this will depend on building a consensus among paddlers, downtown businesses, and citizens that a play park is a critical step for downtown development. Many, many people are interested in making the Poudre a more visible, well-utilized centerpiece for the city, but any change to the status quo will need to occur within the context of water rights/flows/NISP and habitat/floodplain/land ownership considerations, not to mention existing brownfield issues. There is no reason a whitewater park can't be developed within these constraints, but they will probably affect siting and river bed modifications somewhat.

As for strategy, building momentum through facebook, a working group, etc. is a great idea, but I strongly believe we need to integrate this advocacy into the Plan Ft Collins process. There is a stakeholder group focused specifically on the Poudre that involves all of the key players, and city council and staff will look to this group to provide a visionary framework for future development and policy related to the Poudre. The mechanism to be heard already exists--we need to suck it up and get involved, en masse, even though it may/will be frustrating at times.

Gary Wockner would be a great guy to touch base with since he has a deep understanding of Poudre issues and city politics, and his primary interests are fairly well aligned with a play park. However, he would NOT be an ideal spokesman for our group. I served on the city water board with him, and while he is a tireless and knowledgeable advocate, he is an extremely polarizing figure in local politics. If we are to be successful, we will need to work cooperatively with a wide variety of stakeholders to find common ground.

Just some thoughts. I like the multi-headed plan of attack, and let's make Poudre focus group of Plan Ft Collins the center of our approach (Focus Groups: City of Fort Collins). Numbers count, so get involved and show up to the next meetings. The next meetings are scheduled for June 29 and 30--may not be heavy on Poudre issues, but the initial conversations will be summarized, and you can sign up for the appropriate email lists.


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## duncleston (Jul 31, 2007)

Results of the initial brainstorming meeting ( http://www.fcgov.com/planfortcollins/pdf/focus-group-summary-05202010.pdf )

• Develop defined policy for access and development (not one-size-fits-all, address by
districts, and customize according to objectives, including floodplain protection, absolute
approach may not work). Put in unified document.
• Development on one side of the river might balance habitat, access, and aesthetics and
avoid urbanization of the river.
• Overcome river as barrier or boundary.
• Integrate Old Town, but address what this looks like with regards to flows.
• Address the College/river wildlife habitat barrier.
• Improve instream flows, purchase water for release, address water quality.
• Trail system is great, but amenities are lacking.
• Recognize/carry forward the 1997 City Plan “highest rated image/desired community
character” of Poudre River.

Notice...no mention of a play park, but the framework is all there. Get involved or it won't happen.


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## duncleston (Jul 31, 2007)

Summary of discussion items for upcoming meeting (p. 37 of http://www.fcgov.com/planfortcollins/pdf/Plan-FC-Choices-6.23.10-Full.pdf ) :

ENV12—CACHE LA POUDRE RIVER
The community has expressed interest in managing
and protecting the Cache la Poudre River’s
aesthetic and ecological values since the first City
Plan in 1997. In fact, the natural aesthetic values of
the river rated higher than other values at that time.
The community continues to have elevated interest
in the river and its condition. The issues are
complex, because of reservoir proposals that would
affect the river, and because water flows have been
reduced from historic flows due to diversions for
municipal, industrial, and agricultural uses. This
section addresses water supply and flow-related
issues—not potential development or conservation
of the river banks. Plan Fort Collins will not be able
to resolve the community debate surrounding all the
Cache la Poudre River issues, some of which are
regional in scope; however, it can help strengthen
the City’s resolve to support a resilient river, as
suggested in the following potential policy direction.
ENV12-A: SUPPORT A RESILIENT CACHE LA
POUDRE RIVER
Emphasize a resilient Cache la Poudre River to
meet multiple objectives, including a clean water
supply, a functioning ecosystem, and recreation
opportunities.
ENV12-A: What Would it Take?
Supporting this policy will require City staff and
resources to work with the community to develop a
detailed plan to achieve a resilient Cache la Poudre
River and achieve other City water policies (e.g.,
water supply and management, stormwater
management, safe drinking water, etc.)
ENV12-A: What Could this Mean to the Community?
The river topic is complex and currently under
study, due to the proposed Glade Reservoir. This
analysis section merely touches on some of the
potential outcomes discussed. Economically, a
resilient river policy could create tradeoffs related to
water resource planning for regional reservoirs and
ability to plan water supply for future development.
However, such a policy direction could
economically benefit residents and businesses
relying on a river with adequate flows to support
clean drinking water, recreation, and other
businesses. The effects of maintaining flows on
drinking water quality and the City’s water treatment
facility are somewhat unknown, but maintaining
minimum flow levels could avoid taxpayer costs to
adapt the treatment facility for reduced flows.
Socially, having a resilient river is important to
people who use it for recreation and who appreciate
its visual qualities. Clean water contributes to safe
drinking water, which in turn contributes to public
health. Environmentally, maintaining a resilient river
with ecologically meaningful instream flows ensures
that the river ecology can be maintained to support
aquatic systems (fish and invertebrates) and the life
that depends on the river.
ENV12: YOUR NOTES AND FEEDBACK
Do you agree with the policy direction
proposed in ENV12-A?
(Please use this area for your notes and record your
final responses on a comment card or online.)
&#56256;&#56320; Support
&#56256;&#56320; Leaning toward supporting
(but needs refinement)
&#56256;&#56320; Neutral
&#56256;&#56320; Do not support
&#56256;&#56320; Other (please explain)
The City should address the following topics related
to the river’s health (check all that apply):
&#56256;&#56320; Coordinate with other cities
&#56256;&#56320; Protect and restore river banks
&#56256;&#56320; Manage water flow (peak flows and winter
flows)
&#56256;&#56320; Educate about water conservation (e.g.,
landscaping irrigation and household use
and efficient municipal uses)
&#56256;&#56320; Trade urban/agricultural water use
&#56256;&#56320; None of the above
&#56256;&#56320; Other (please explain)


"Other" could very well be a play park! OK, that's all I got for today. 

--Duncan


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## mrekid (May 13, 2004)

Duncan, after our discussion last night on the way up to the river, I think there is an ulterior motive for not wanting to build anything in the riverbed below college. The city spent tens of millions of dollars there in the past five years to mitigate coal sluge and other petrochemical contaminants. I suspect the city will continually stall on this project as long as the proposed site is potentially in a superfund site. If this is the case then changing the location could be what is necessary to get this ball rolling again.


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## Buckrodgers (Feb 28, 2007)

*Meeting*

So everybody, why don't we get together soon and start hashing out a clear plan for our approach? Adrian, you mentioned you could spearhead the meeting? Most of us like beer! If we can't do it at NB my lady works at FCB so we could meet up over there probably.

I think we will be most effective if we come up with a plan that has specific points we want to identify/accomplish, a big point being location. If clean up efforts (etc.) are indeed hampering the preferred location, I think we should identify that with certainty now and move on if necessary. As an ancillary push, people need to be of course sending emails/making phone calls to some of those already mentioned in this thread.

This discussion has gotten some good ideas flowing again, so let's hone our vision a bit before another year goes by--some of you have been working on this project for many years, so let's just identify the hang ups with the city/county so we don't keep getting skunked. I know we can get this accomplished in this city (or in LaPorte), and now is the time.


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## Arn (Nov 8, 2003)

I would recommend skiiping all the letters and emails and ask each of these town board members out for a coffee where you can have a small free discussion on their thoughts. Ask them what their concerns are and then address them with why this is a good idea. Lobbying groups exist for a very good reason in politics, whether you like them or not. Make them your advocates and not your enemies. This approach will help build "quiet" support before you do any public hearings. Letters and emails can be too easily construed as antagonistic and puts people on the defensive.


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## jeffy (Sep 17, 2004)

What do we need to do to get the ball rolling here?


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## El Flaco (Nov 5, 2003)

Some good info is buried in the this thread - if Adrock or someone else that's willing to own this & post a new condensed thread about the Planning events tomorrow and Wednesday, I'll make it a sticky. I'd do it myself but I have a shitload of work today and I'm not a FTC resident; and it's probably better that one of the more involved folks take the lead on this. Sounds like there are two very important sessions in the 2-day meetings in which it would be great to get some significant participation. 

News & Events: City of Fort Collins 
It would be nice to include the Facebook page link and get those numbers to a substantial level (in the 1000's); although that may not sway council members too much, they can't ignore it when there's documented interest in a project.

On a related note, I was in Lyons yesterday and it's obvious how much impact their park has, well beyond your typical whitewater enthusiast. The place was packed with 'other' river users; tubers, picnickers that were watching the action, etc. They outnumbered any boaters by 20:1.


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## the_dude (May 31, 2006)

You need a leader. JJ offered to hand his filebox off to anyone willing to take it over and run with it. That person needs to step forward, pick up that box of stuff, and learn the project. It won't be a one man/woman job, so a committee of folks that that leader can delegate tasks to is probably next.


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