# Christo Over the River BS is moving forward



## gh (Oct 13, 2003)

I will send them a letter of support.


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## okieboater (Oct 19, 2004)

is the [email protected] the correct BLM email to send in comments to stop this madness? Looks like state parks has taken the money bait.


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## paddleprincess (Jun 25, 2010)

The BLM is not accepting comments anymore. The comment period was last summer for approx. 90 days. The BLM will soon release the EIS, Environmental Impact Statement. It will be open for review at that time. you can also review the EIS for Breckenridge for opening peak 6 to skiing, and of course, developement by Vail Resorts.
jo


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## OleMissBoater (May 22, 2007)

[email protected] is the email for the project manager for the Over the River foundation, not the BLM.


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## Randaddy (Jun 8, 2007)

I hope Christo gets tangled in the shiny fabric and falls into the river, never to be seen again! This is fucking retarded.


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## Nessy (May 25, 2009)

Aside from the environmental blight, this seems like a potential extreme hazard for boaters. Lines and fabric coming down in the river on top of boaters would be a nightmare. And what about scouting rapids? Won't the fabric obscure the view of the water? How will a potential rescuer be able to see from the road that some poor sod is broach-pined on a rock and needs a throw bag?


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## gh (Oct 13, 2003)

Randaddy, given your stupid ass comments, I would say Christo has done more for the world than you have.


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## feats of strength (Oct 23, 2009)

+1 for can't wait to boat through the melding of natural and man-made beauty.


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## pinemnky13 (Jun 4, 2007)

Before he is allowed to do this he should clean up the shit left behind from his valley curtain


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## OleMissBoater (May 22, 2007)

feats of strength said:


> +1 for can't wait to boat through the melding of natural and man-made beauty.


Yeah? If you like it, you will probably boat next to his garbage forever. 

The link is from his last Colorado debacle... Over THIRTY FN YEARS AGO! Still has I beams and concrete all over that place. 

Say NO to Christo - Rags Over the Arkansas River ROAR-Colorado

You really want to boat next to that?


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## gh (Oct 13, 2003)

OleMissBoater said:


> Yeah? If you like it, you will probably boat next to his garbage forever.
> 
> The link is from his last Colorado debacle... Over THIRTY FN YEARS AGO! Still has I beams and concrete all over that place.
> 
> ...


Are you trolling? Pick a hot topic and then talk about garbage next to the river, all the way from Mississippi? I dont think you will see it from there and obviously you have never seen the pristine canyon that this will be in because if you did, you are over a hundred years late. The railroad folks raped this canyon with the highway folks years ago, send them a damn note as well.


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## bigben (Oct 3, 2010)

yet another reason i'm glad not to be an ark boater. this bullshit would never fly on the poudre. pretty nice to be on a federally protected river!! i know your canyon is already fucked up, but do you really want it trashed even more just so you can paddle under some shiny sheets?? just tie some aluminum foil around your face next time you go out and save the river from a shitload more unnecessary trash. this whole thing just proves how many boaters there are out there who don't care at all about keeping their river environment as clean as possible. personally i go tho the river to enjoy nature, not to paddle past a bunch of junk. fuck cristo. amen


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## steven (Apr 2, 2004)

letter of support from me just sent as well. sent the contact info to a ton of friends who don't boat, but think his past work is great and are psyched to get to see this installation. thanks for the heads up olemiss.


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## Andy H. (Oct 13, 2003)

OK, Jon and Greg, chill out. 

Greg, meet Jon, he's another Front Ranger like us, boats the Ark all the time and happens to have a strong viewpoint about the Christo thing. He went to Ole Miss and looks forward to hearing the words "Touchdown, Mississippi" sometime this fall - he just may not get to hear it much once Ole Miss gets into their Southeastern Conference schedule but that's for another smack talk topic... 

Jon, meet Greg, he's another Front Ranger like us, boats the Ark all the time and happens to have a strong viewpoint about the Christo thing.

Arguing on the interwebs doesn't make anyone look good.

-AH


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## psu96 (May 9, 2006)

I see the AHRA using this as an opportunity to permit certain sections of the ark. I believe it's a possibility to permit the section during construction to ration the amount of boats while construction is going on and then AHRA continuing the permits to generate revenue....

The point about the canyon already being trashed is beside the point, we are talking about access issues.


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## Livingston (Jan 8, 2004)

looking forward to boating it!

Please, check this link before we unearth and continue beating the same dead horse and you say something stupid like "he should donate the money to charity". http://www.mountainbuzz.com/forums/f21/christo-over-the-river-on-the-ark-32290.html


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## feats of strength (Oct 23, 2009)

Enjoy Nature? My first concern is to enjoy boating with friends and although nature is the obvious close 2nd, It is not why I boat heavily commercialized regions, if I did I would go to the Poudre or anywhere other than the Ark. That valley is perfect for this installation and could only benefit from the exposure and related tourism.

yet another blow to the horse :twisted: 

cheers


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## Jensjustduckie (Jun 29, 2007)

Dude, this river art crap is never going to match my Yeti cooler, how am I expected to boat under fabric that clashes with my cooler?!?!


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## cmack (Oct 15, 2006)

I am just curious as to what location along the installation would be best to set up my turkey leg stand... I have considered also selling pork rinds...


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## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

gh said:


> Randaddy, given your stupid ass comments, I would say Christo has done more for the world than you have.


Less is more. The more we "do for the world" the more we fuck it up and piss in our own pot.


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## gh (Oct 13, 2003)

lhowemt said:


> Less is more. The more we "do for the world" the more we fuck it up and piss in our own pot.


my comment was based on the fact that some people see what christo does as art.


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## gh (Oct 13, 2003)

Livingston said:


> looking forward to boating it!
> 
> Please, check this link before we unearth and continue beating the same dead horse and you say something stupid like "he should donate the money to charity". http://www.mountainbuzz.com/forums/f21/christo-over-the-river-on-the-ark-32290.html


Congrats on posting the first intelligent comment on this regurgitated, tired, old, boring, stupid topic.


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## OleMissBoater (May 22, 2007)

gh said:


> Are you trolling? Pick a hot topic and then talk about garbage next to the river, all the way from Mississippi? I dont think you will see it from there and obviously you have never seen the pristine canyon that this will be in because if you did, you are over a hundred years late. The railroad folks raped this canyon with the highway folks years ago, send them a damn note as well.


Wow, you're bright.


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## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

gh said:


> my comment was based on the fact that some people see what christo does as art.


You know what they say about artists and engineers. Well, there is no saying but they both like to justify the means by the end, and disregard what others day about both the means and the end. Sheets over rivers and dams. Both are supposed to be good for us, right?


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## paddleprincess (Jun 25, 2010)

let's just hope it doesn't happen


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## gh (Oct 13, 2003)

OleMissBoater said:


> Wow, you're bright.


Only compared to some.


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## MountainMedic (Apr 24, 2010)

gh said:


> Are you trolling? Pick a hot topic and then talk about garbage next to the river, all the way from Mississippi? I dont think you will see it from there and obviously you have never seen the pristine canyon that this will be in because if you did, you are over a hundred years late. The railroad folks raped this canyon with the highway folks years ago, send them a damn note as well.


I worked as a Parks Officer in the Rifle Complex in the 90's. The sight of the blocks of cement w/giant rusting cables was, and still is, an eyesore.... and Rifle gap isn't that pretty of a place to begin with. 

almost every installation that yahoo has done has turned into an unmitigated disaster.


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## pinemnky13 (Jun 4, 2007)

MountainMedic said:


> I worked as a Parks Officer in the Rifle Complex in the 90's. The sight of the blocks of cement w/giant rusting cables was, and still is, an eyesore.... and Rifle gap isn't that pretty of a place to begin with.
> 
> almost every installation that yahoo has done has turned into an unmitigated disaster.


Yep and it is still out there, lets keep his "art" to the streets of Detroit, it has no place here in Colorado. If he still can't clean up his shit at Rifle 30 years later he should not be able to do it over the Arkansas.
PM me if you want to go take a tour, I'll be glad to take you... when I'm not rafting


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## Hey Zeus (Mar 19, 2007)

Is Westwater scary above 13k?


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## OleMissBoater (May 22, 2007)

gh said:


> Only compared to some.


At first you annoyed me, now I just feel sorry for you.


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## feats of strength (Oct 23, 2009)

personal attacks make any point more valid..NOT!

Now you're going to throw in a comment about Detroit?

Look, so fuckin what if there are some left over parts and pieces in Rifle... If the community got off their asses and held his ass responsible back then..we wouldn't be pointing the finger now. Learn from the past and stop bitching! 

I love the ignorance of idealists when they talk about the woes of technology and the how infrastructure has hurt the environment... fuck off! If you have a better idea then speak up and make a change. Yes..dams suck..butt if you were born in the SW guess what, you are here because of dams!

If you have a problem with evidence of man impacting the environment..then stop touring those ugly ghost towns and stay away from nasty places like the pyramids. 

Bottom line is let's get real and keep wild places wild and do our best to improve the areas in which we live..the Ark is not wild and scenic..deal with it! 


My vote of support revised:

+1 for support of the project
+1 for support of the full removal of the project

is that better?

(insert sarcastic smiley here) 

cheers, I am headed out to paddle the wild and scenic Rouge River (fuck, I hate what Ford did to Detroit) (insert another sarcastic smiley)


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## Randaddy (Jun 8, 2007)

gh said:


> Randaddy, given your stupid ass comments, I would say Christo has done more for the world than you have.


Sorry for not supporting the degradation of a beautiful canyon by an abstract artist from a city far, far away.

Let's all line up to blow the great Christo for all he's done for the world! He put little gates all over Central Park! Hooray, cup the balls! He surrounded an island with fabric! Thank you sir, may we have another? 

GH, talk shit all you want, but you're the one supporting the covering of a canyon with shiny fabric. It's fucking stupid and if you don't know it maybe you should spend some more time on the water. If you support money and influence like his over keeping wild places wild then I won't waste my time reasoning with you. I'll go hang with some real boaters.

Enjoy your day, I'll spend mine on the water under the BLUE COLORADO SKY.


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## cmack (Oct 15, 2006)

...I could also sell funnel cakes. Y'all think they would be a good seller? Corn dogs too?


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## Jahve (Oct 31, 2003)

Great thread - if Cristo was here I would thank him for more of his "art".. Good stuff!


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## Roy (Oct 30, 2003)

I'm not a big funnel cake guy, but I do like a good corn dog--especially when it's dipped in batter and deep fried right there on the spot!

Anybody know when this thing's gonna happen? How many more years of these threads do we have to look forward to?


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## Riparian (Feb 7, 2009)

It _is_ a beautiful canyon, but calling it a "wild place" is kinda like calling Pamela Anderson a _pristine virgin_.



Randaddy said:


> Sorry for not supporting the degradation of a beautiful canyon by an abstract artist from a city far, far away.
> 
> Let's all line up to blow the great Christo for all he's done for the world! He put little gates all over Central Park! Hooray, cup the balls! He surrounded an island with fabric! Thank you sir, may we have another?
> 
> ...


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## pinemnky13 (Jun 4, 2007)

I still think detroit (Pronounced de twah) would be a btter place for this installation, perhaps in the ford edsel valley?


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## skipowpow (Mar 1, 2011)

Riparian said:


> It _is_ a beautiful canyon, but calling it a "wild place" is kinda like calling Pamela Anderson a _pristine virgin_.


I don't think either should be covered up.


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## gh (Oct 13, 2003)

Randaddy said:


> Sorry for not supporting the degradation of a beautiful canyon by an abstract artist from a city far, far away.
> 
> Let's all line up to blow the great Christo for all he's done for the world! He put little gates all over Central Park! Hooray, cup the balls! He surrounded an island with fabric! Thank you sir, may we have another?
> 
> ...


You're make a big assumption in saying I support Christo's project. What I didnt support was your post that said you hope he died for doing it. Saying that Christo has done more for the world than you was in no way meant as support of Christo. Now in saying all that, I was having a bad day and your welcome to say what you want but I personally dont want someone to die because they have a concept of art that doesnt agree with mine. 
I think that most of you that are getting all bent out of shape and going off about this after this is probably the 100th thread about this is misplaced energy. Deal with it and quit whining about it.


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## gh (Oct 13, 2003)

OleMissBoater said:


> At first you annoyed me, now I just feel sorry for you.


I dont know what you are going on about. Let it go.


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## DanOrion (Jun 8, 2004)

I for one put my vote firmly behind funnel cakes.


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## Brotorboat (Apr 14, 2009)

Wait a tick...

If these rags go up...there will be less sunlight...which means my ice will keep longer...which means I will need less of it....which means I can put more beer in my cooler and less ice !?

I am officially changing my opinion on this issue. I say put rags over all the rivers!

Hip - Hip - HORRAY!!! 

My vote goes for Turkey Legs Wrapped in a Funnel Cakes !!


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## cmack (Oct 15, 2006)

I have decided not to have turkey legs for food at all, but instead we are going to have funnel cakes and corn dogs. Turkey legs will be used as ammo in a dunk tank featuring Grif. If you dunk him, you get a free throwbag!


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## Brotorboat (Apr 14, 2009)

Are you going to have the strawberry topping? I can't eat funnel cakes anymore unless they have the strawberry topping. 

It's like doing heroin and then trying to continue your habit with methadone...


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## Livingston (Jan 8, 2004)

If every piece of art had to pass a consensus vote to exist, there would be nothing left... except for maybe my Jesus paintings that I make with santorum.

So go enjoy your Ansell Adams print and let this artist do his thing. I like to see an artist actually make money while still alive. That is the kind of world where I want to live.

*Of you haters, how many are current AW members?* No?, then stfu. Yes?, then I respectfully dissagree... aw, what the hell, you stfu too.

-d


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## MountainMedic (Apr 24, 2010)

I agree w/the sentiment ..... But his 'art' is ego driven.

Art is supposed to illicit an impact, not cause one.


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## DurangoSteve (Jun 2, 2006)

Livingston said:


> If every piece of art had to pass a consensus vote to exist, there would be nothing left... except for maybe my Jesus paintings that I make with *santorum*.
> -d


The "frothy mixture?" 
Yikes.


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## Brotorboat (Apr 14, 2009)

"Of you haters, how many are current AW members?"

Sounds like a great example of.."I pay my money so I can tell people I'm doing something about it"

I'm a member who is seriously re-thinking my membership. Now there is a good idea for a CONSTRUCTIVE thread. 

Should I continue to give AW money or would my money be better served with an organization that actually does something to protect our country's rivers??

Let the games begin...


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## Livingston (Jan 8, 2004)

"Sounds like a great example of.."I pay my money so I can tell people I'm doing something about it""

Nope, just really drunk at Gauley last year and got talked into a $100 t-shirt... and a sticker. 

-d


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## Jensjustduckie (Jun 29, 2007)

BLM approved - get ready to float in the shade:

BLM backs artist Christo's "Over The River" plan, with some changes - The Denver Post


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## Brotorboat (Apr 14, 2009)

When the F will we learn how to draw the line...

"Only after the last tree has been cut down.
Only after the last river has been poisoned.
Only after the last fish has been caught.
Only then will you find that money cannot be eaten."


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## nathanfey (Jun 7, 2006)

paddleprincess said:


> The BLM is not accepting comments anymore. The comment period was last summer for approx. 90 days. The BLM will soon release the EIS, Environmental Impact Statement. It will be open for review at that time. you can also review the EIS for Breckenridge for opening peak 6 to skiing, and of course, developement by Vail Resorts.
> jo


The Final Environmental Impact Study was released today and will be available for public review through August 29, 2011. Although this is not a formal comment period, comments related to the Final EIS may still be submitted. 

American Whitewater - BLM Releases Over The River Project Final Environmental Impact Statement (CO)


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## skipowpow (Mar 1, 2011)

There is still the intent to sue Colorado State Parks at this point:

Colorado parks division sued over Christo project - The Denver Post


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## soylent green (Jul 8, 2004)

Wow, I've been waiting for this for a long time. I think it will be amazing to see this huge project come to fruition. Incorporating the natural movement of the water into the static color of the fabric draped over the river will be create a unique visual experience. I appreciate art of all kinds and this is going to be top notch. Can't wait.


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## sandbagger (Feb 1, 2006)

soylent green said:


> Wow, I've been waiting for this for a long time. I think it will be amazing to see this huge project come to fruition. Incorporating the natural movement of the water into the static color of the fabric draped over the river will be create a unique visual experience. I appreciate art of all kinds and this is going to be top notch. Can't wait.


Having seen a lot of Christo's work, I share this sentiment. His stuff typically elicits tremendous opposition prior to installation, but many people come around after seeing it. I suspect this will do the same, with many of the opposition changing their mind when all is said and done.


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## steven (Apr 2, 2004)

i agree w/ the above 2 posts as well. Not sure what matty's point is, as the project will not cut any trees or poison any rivers. It's temporary and will be cool.


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## Brotorboat (Apr 14, 2009)

Temporary - yeah right. 

Impact = more than you can imagine. Ever heard of the butterfly effect? Put up a bunch of crap that blocks the sunlight and you change water temps. And what happens when you alter water temperatures?? Do your own research...

I really don't want to keep re-hashing what has already been said a hundred times. But, there is a lot more going on here than just "oooh, that's pretty". We need to start putting the environment FIRST and our selfish needs to look at cool shit last. Why on earth do we need to see this particular "installment". Could we all not die happy, having never seen it?? 

As a musician, I feel that art is a FORM of communication. So, tell me...what is Christo trying to communicate here?? Other than the fact that he cares not for the fish, insects and natural wildlife of the Arkansas River Valley??

Am I missing something?? Please indulge me...


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## Ed Hansen (Oct 12, 2003)

Thanks for the heads up. I look forward to many trips below the curtains. 

I also look forward to this being the most likely way of getting those 5 miles of railroad cars finally moved while this project is in place. Hopefully they will stay gone after the artwork's time has passed. 

I find all the opposition funny. 

Worried about the rocks and banks being altered? There is a road on one side of the river and a railroad on the other. Both sides of the river have been altered severly already. :lol:

Worried about the shade changing the temperature of the water? How many dams and tunnels does that water pass through before it hits the canyon? Tell me that the temperature hasn't already been altered.:-?

Worried about traffic concerns when cars stopping along the river to take pictures? Have you been along there on a summer day? True the amount will jump dramatically, but there are already people stopping all along the river to take pictures. I see it every time I kayak down it. At least this canyon has numourous large pullouts big enough to park mutilple rafting buses.


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## steven (Apr 2, 2004)

skin flute?


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## willieWAO (Jun 14, 2005)

TWO years to build, a measly two WEEKS to "present" or what ever and some god-awful amount of time to take the thing down, like many years? Are they going to be stringing cables across the river during peak flow and or use? What other safety hazards are going to present themselves during the time of TWO YEARS of construction? Whats next? Some silly "art" in the middle of some pristine wilderness? I reckon we aint too far off.

"Cuz they blind to the fact that the fact is the mind ain't aligned
With the nature in divine..."
Sweatshop Union.


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## Brotorboat (Apr 14, 2009)

Steven - You have a decent sense of humor. So, I'll give you that.

Most of you who support this have stood along side of..."Well it's already touched and not really wilderness and there's a railroad and there's eye sores, blah..blah...blah..". Which is basically like saying, "It COULD get worse, but who cares. It was already on a path of degradation."

GO AMERICA!


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## bigben (Oct 3, 2010)

once again... go ahead and do this on you guys's already shitty, overcrowded stretch of water.
.... try it on the poudre and everyone will see, once again, just how much of a powerful psychological tool a little bit of arson can be. 
amen.


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## j.tipton (Apr 28, 2008)

This thread gave me a good morning coffee read.

Most important is to check out the EIS and see What's really presented.
OTR Final EIS

The 2 year Construction sounds like a nightmare.
Remaining Trash has me concerned, REgardless of Existing Trash from Others.
Leave No Trace..
The sheet will be a good cushion for Shuttle Buses if they Roll.
They'll also make a Fine Grafitti Palate.
How the hell is anyone going to Get on/off the River under this Art?
For fishing, emergencies, gold panning, or just fucking by the river?
What IS the point? Like the Bridge over the RG.... Pointless...
Who's going to clean it Up? It's time to instill my vision:
Put Our Prisoners to Work!
I'm going to read the EIS. I commented last year.... big deal.....
Money talks & shit walks.


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## robanna (Apr 20, 2004)

Has anyone even considered the health department permits needed to
sell funnel cakes and corn dogs?!
Not to mention the permits needed to sell PBRs! You are going to sell PBRs, aren't you?
Think before you take such a serious step!

And with so many people new to the river, please make sure to sell whistles.


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## cmack (Oct 15, 2006)

robanna said:


> Has anyone even considered the health department permits needed to
> sell funnel cakes and corn dogs?!
> Not to mention the permits needed to sell PBRs! You are going to sell PBRs, aren't you?
> Think before you take such a serious step!
> ...



I was going to sell PBRs, but I am thinking that Schlitz would go better with Turkey Legs.


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## cayo 2 (Apr 20, 2007)

I think Caspermike claimed the rights to sell *hallucinogenic river teas* quite some time ago.A *medicinals* stand nearby would stimulate corn dog and funnel cake sales.

My vote for most humorous on this thread goes to Livingstone.Between Mapplethorpe*s elk dung Madonna,santorum Jesus,and Christo*s wraps/curtains what has art come to?But he is right ,if all art had to pass some litmus test a lot would be censored,no good.Just wish true talents like Van Gogh were recognized in their lifetimes as much as intrusive self promoting marginal- if that-talents like Christo.

At this point,i wish they would just get it over with ,let us paddle it ,and rip on it or be pleasantly surprised that it is cool.Whatever, they should hold Christo fully accountable for cleaning it up properly.Does he have to insure it or post any sort of bonds for the clean up?

something squirrely is going on with this keyboard re quote marks, apostrophes ,etc. sorry


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## cayo 2 (Apr 20, 2007)

*another reason to disparage Chrisco/Christo*

I am not sure if this is the same guy or not,but it is certainly at least as absurd as Christo and the guy seems to think of it as an art form/hobby/form of expression. google colorado porta potty peeper be sure to watch the interview and the animated reenactment.Man the world has gone crazy I tell ya!


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## slavetotheflyrod (Sep 2, 2009)

steven said:


> skin flute?


Nope, but I have heard he plays a mean meat pipe. 

In all seriousness, fucking Christo is going to croak it before this shindig gets anywhere near happening. 

Have you seen that fucking Belgian muppet?

Think "night of the living dead" meets "tales from the crypt"


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## Gremlin (Jun 24, 2010)

Good thing Colorado never sees 60 mph winds gusts.


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## junkshowriverchick (Oct 3, 2008)

adding more man-made 'stuff' to the riverbank along this already very altered corridor can have NO positive effect.

maybe we should consider those friends we have already lost due to the crap in and along the river before we consider adding to the mess. this project would not improve anything, nor would it likely even leave the landscape in similar shape, so in my mind it is just a frivolous undertaking of a bored old urbanite....


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## cayo 2 (Apr 20, 2007)

Slave ,

That is an insult to Belgians ,and the French even have a put down *
`your mother is a Belgian`.He is an ex Bulgarian muppet,Bulgaria disowned him after he defected,that`s alright I have wrongly called him an Albanian before.He is indeed a dead ringer for the `Tales From The Crypt `dude.That Jeanne Claude was a real looker too- see wikipedia photo but not if you have just eaten.He doesn*t look particularly healthy but is only 76.

okay,so we can beat dead horse and making fun of some geezer*s looks is juvenile,i just wish his supporters would go see some good art,so they would get how mediocre/lame Christo is,might I suggest the Louvre,Rijksmuseum,Uffizi,Vatican,Met,MOMA,Guggenheim,Museu Picasso,National Palace/Bellas Artes/Autonomous University in Mexico City,Dali*s museums in Figueras or St .Pete,to name but a few.Go boat Micos and visit `Las Pozas` in Xilitla ,home of surrealist eccentric Edward [ edmund?[ James.


Slave far more provocative and disturbing than any of Christo*s `work` is that avatar of yours.It*s bag pipe not meat pipe.

Please get this over with already.


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## gh (Oct 13, 2003)

Ed Hansen said:


> Thanks for the heads up. I look forward to many trips below the curtains.
> 
> I also look forward to this being the most likely way of getting those 5 miles of railroad cars finally moved while this project is in place. Hopefully they will stay gone after the artwork's time has passed.
> 
> ...


Agreed


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## cayo 2 (Apr 20, 2007)

oops Mapplethorpe is not the dung guy,he is some gay photographer that tries to shock people... got Cincinnati all worked up....dung guy was Ofili .... got Catholics panties in a bunch....elephant not elk dung,conflated bogus Chrisco drowning post with reality...same difference really...BOTH ABSURD


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## steven (Apr 2, 2004)

jeez - now bringing robert maplethorpe into this and calling him and his work absurd? some of you guys should really learn to keep your mouth shut, lest you broadcast your ignorance.


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## cayo 2 (Apr 20, 2007)

Steven,Maplethorpe was not the one being called absurd the dung guy- really the controversy surrounding it- and the whole situation were.Why are you so hyper sensitive about this stuff??Christo is not above criticism .He brings it upon himself with the scale of his projects.His art seems contrived not genuine ,but I am not opposed to him doing it like some people.I just don:t think his art is very good. Some of it is interesting but relative to the hype.... you can like him if you want.....you can call a knowledge of art and the humanities that likely far surpasses yours ignorance if you want....i have a pretty broad frame of reference and Christo simply doesn:t rate imo... i don:t like Jackson Pollock,Andy Warhol,or Joan Miro either ,but many other people do they were very successful....that*s just the way it goes


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## steven (Apr 2, 2004)

I shouldn't have responded to an offensive and simple-minded quote ("some gay guy who tries to shock people"), but being a fan of his I couldn't help it at that moment. One can certainly like or dislike (warhol?) whatever the fck they want. I just have learned it best in life for me to TRY and generally keep the negative opinions to myself, but i can't expect others to do the same. Bold to assume that you have more knowledge (far surpasses!) of the arts and humanities than someone you have never met, unless you are an art prof. or something, but also bold on my part to imply a stranger's ignorance. I do appreciate the fact that you have an opinion that is based on your own knowledge and taste, instead of just spewing about shit you don't really know about like some do. I just try and appreciate anything out there, even if it doesn't drastically speak to me. I tried to stay out of this thread, and will from here on out. It is certainly a dead horse, but would make a great drunken campfire topic at baileyfest.


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## eljim (Sep 19, 2007)

I just hope the drapes don't take away from the graffiti train cars, the noisy highway, or the never ending line of commercial rafts. Stay gold Pony Boy.


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## MikeG (Mar 6, 2004)

*how to float under the curtains?*

I'm thinking about buying a raft to float under these curtains. Does anyone have opinions on Saturn rafts? What size oars would I need? Would open oarlocks be better or pins and clips? Would it be safe for kids?
Actually, I may just go with a kayak- what would be the best kayak for me? I'm 7'6" and weigh 438 lbs.


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## cayo 2 (Apr 20, 2007)

Steven,


Sorry,I have gone overboard on stooging on Christo .As far as Maplethorpe; saying someone is gay is not derogatory [ offensive /simple minded[ unless there is some implication that it is bad /inferior.The guy is openly gay and proud of it.Yes ,i think there is a shock jock quality to his work,you may have a greater appreciation of it.He got brought into the conversation in reference to the santorum jesus a clear allusion to the dung madonna.I got Maplethorpe mixed up with the dung madonna artist.The connection between the two is that they both had people all worked up about public art they deemed inappropriate especially if funded by the NEA, and they happened around the same time.
Yes that was an arrogant comment.I figured you:d rip me because you were an art major or something.I just have been to a lot of museums and read way too much about the humanities and social sciences as a layman with minimal higher education.


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## randomnature (Jun 10, 2007)

*Vandalism*

The two things that com to mind are the wind (already mentioned) and vandalism. I see a huge possibility of disgruntled boaters vandalizing the sheets.


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## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

Good god this atrocity even made it to our paper today. Yeah, I want to go boating in the SHADE of some manufactured textile. Nice.


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## psu96 (May 9, 2006)

randomnature said:


> The two things that com to mind are the wind (already mentioned) and vandalism. I see a huge possibility of disgruntled boaters vandalizing the sheets.


maybe, but there are a lot of non boaters who live in the area that are disgruntled,


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## Andy H. (Oct 13, 2003)

MikeG said:


> Actually, I may just go with a kayak- what would be the best kayak for me? I'm 7'6" and weigh 438 lbs.


No, you definitely need a raft, the only question is what kind of cooler to get for all the Schlitz and turkey legs someone of your stature is bound to consume.

As for me, I'll be one of the gruntled boaters looking forward to a chance to float under it, reflect on interesting and definitely provocative art and also curious to see what kind of improvements they'll make to the river during the clean up. Frankly I can't see how they'd make it worse if they do what they say. Two weeks isn't enough time as far as I'm concerned, considering the effort that'll go into it. Not only that but it'll be the first time I've floated that stretch without getting to see all those black box cars.


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## billfish (Nov 22, 2009)

*don't get it?*

i have never been to this strech of river and probably never will, but i have read all of the posts and those on other threads as well. i'm not sure i understand-why here? it is obviously already a popular area. if you use the argument of bringing tourists and business to view what some people view as art, why not do it in an area in need of more tourists and art lovers? were other areas approached with this idea? was it turned down in other places? is this the last resort? are there areas where there would be less resistance and the idea appreciated more? is it possible that the idea is actually well recieved by most locals and just not welcomed by buzzards and the rest of the river community. as it is often said- beauty and art are both found in the eye of the beholder. for me art hangs by the fire place not the campfire. but as i stated, i don't live there, have never been there and will definitely not be there to see the art work. i just hope this type of behavior doesn't spread.


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## sandbagger (Feb 1, 2006)

randomnature said:


> I see a huge possibility of disgruntled boaters vandalizing the sheets.


That would be really sad. People arguing that it is a terrible idea and trying to prove it by vandalizing it?



junkshowriverchick said:


> adding more man-made 'stuff' to the riverbank along this already very altered corridor can have NO positive effect.


The folks who keep talking about Valley Curtain don't believe it, but I expect there to be a net of less man made stuff along the riverbank after this project is taken down.



cayo 2 said:


> Steven,Maplethorpe was not the one being called absurd the dung guy- really the controversy surrounding it- and the whole situation were.Why are you so hyper sensitive about this stuff??Christo is not above criticism .He brings it upon himself with the scale of his projects.His art seems contrived not genuine ,but I am not opposed to him doing it like some people.I just don:t think his art is very good. Some of it is interesting but relative to the hype.... you can like him if you want.....you can call a knowledge of art and the humanities that likely far surpasses yours ignorance if you want....i have a pretty broad frame of reference and Christo simply doesn:t rate imo... i don:t like Jackson Pollock,Andy Warhol,or Joan Miro either ,but many other people do they were very successful....that*s just the way it goes


I kind of think that part of Christo's art is almost performance based, that the scale of his projects, and the objections to them, and the approval process in light of all that, are part of the whole package of his art.

As a kid, I really didn't get his stuff, but as an adult, I have grown to appreciate it. But I'm no expert, I just know what I like, and I have come to really like his work. :shrug:


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## BarryDingle (Mar 13, 2008)

I rowed Clear Creek for the first time last week. Right beside I-70,noise,tons of debris,litter,bicycles,axles,traffic barrels....I still had a blast. This can't be that much worse than that...and its only for two weeks?


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## billfish (Nov 22, 2009)

Andy H. said:


> No, you definitely need a raft, the only question is what kind of cooler to get for all the Schlitz and turkey legs someone of your stature is bound to consume.
> 
> As for me, I'll be one of the gruntled boaters looking forward to a chance to float under it, reflect on interesting and definitely provocative art and also curious to see what kind of improvements they'll make to the river during the clean up. Frankly I can't see how they'd make it worse if they do what they say. Two weeks isn't enough time as far as I'm concerned, considering the effort that'll go into it. Not only that but it'll be the first time I've floated that stretch without getting to see all those black box cars.


 
you answered a lot of my questions before i posted. good luck!


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