# What is a good starter boat for a chica-



## GAtoCSU

Something stable and comfortable. I made the mistake (kinda) of buying a boat for my fiance that was too aggressive and very tipsy. So, after a season of paddling it, I got her into my creekboat (Jefe by Liquidlogic) and she loved it.

The confidence that she has gained is huge and she is much more excited about getting on the water. Now while she is small (5'2" and 115lb) and the Jefe is quite the boat for a beginner boater to handle, that genre of boat (river runner w/ relaxed edges) is a great boat for her to be in. If I could do it all over, I would put her in a Little Joe or a Trigger.

Maybe next season...

Scott


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## rockinRio

Depends on what you want to do...

But by far I think the best boat to start off in is the Jackson Fun series.

My wife has one and loves it. Nothing wrong with a river runner as suggested above, but you'll have a harder time progressing faster in a river runner. With a free-runner (good for play and going down river) you will find the boat can preform through your progression.

Side note, as you look for a paddle here are a couple of things to think of.
Look towards a small diameter shaft, and if you get cold easily get some gloves and get used to paddling with them. My wife did not, and now it is hard for her to use gloves (paddle feels weird with them) leading her to get cold faster. Colorado has cold water, I use my gloves until mid to late July but I've been called a wuss too.


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## GAtoCSU

rockinRio said:


> Depends on what you want to do...
> 
> but you'll have a harder time progressing faster in a river runner.


What kind of progression do you mean? Like freestyle? B/c I used to think the exact same thing until I got back into the beginner scene. I strongly feel that way too many new paddlers are buying playboats and wanting to learn how to loop/wheel on flatwater instead of learning how to have good, solid river-running technique first. 

I've been stopped on class 2/3 lately on the Poudre by beginner paddlers that want to learn how to do a bow stall etc. while they still are not comfortable with eddy turns.

It's a Yin and Yang situations in my eyes. If you're very comfortable on a river then your progression of technique, for controlling a boat and running a river will be quicker. After all, at what point do you really need a playboat? Carthwheels?

Scott


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## rockinRio

I mean...

The boat you pick is determined by what you want to do in the sport.

Downriver only, or learn to surf and play while going down river.

I can only speak from my experience. Which is I started off in a downriver boat, and it took me years to get to a place where I understood what was going on in a river. I spent the last two seasons in playboats and free-runners and it has made a huge difference in my abilities and confidence. My buddy started in a playboat. He caught and passed me in skill and confidence in less than a season. Granted I wouldn't recommend that to everyone, he is aggressive, and has a stunted fear gene.

This is only my philosophy, but I know others share it. Get a versatile boat to begin with. Not a playboat and not a creek boat. Try out going downriver and playing in playparks. Learn read and run skills as well as getting into surf holes. You need all the skills to be a good comfortable kayaker.

I could flip the scenario on you. I've ran across boaters who have spent two seasons in downriver/creek boats, and are afraid to get flipped over because they only practice their roll in the pool or eddie. The boat hinders their ability to learn, because they don't need to have a solid roll doing II/III runs in a creek boat.

I think the most important obstacle for a beginner is getting used to being upside down under water in a boat on a river in a rapid. Your not going to overcome that doing II/III in a downriver boat.

Playing gets you tons of brace and roll practice. Along with entering and exiting eddies. You also get comfortable getting stuck in a hole (which will happen to everyone).

Going downriver gives the read/run and scouting skills as well as a great place to practice what you've learned in the playpark.

Unless you're willing to buy two boats out of the gate. I think the best beginner boat is a free-runner. It will keep most sane people from running stuff out of their league while giving them the ability to go down fun runs, and visit the playpark. 

No your not going to be able to throw loops in the free-runner your first time in the park, your also not going be able to run the Narrows your first time out either. But the free-runner class with give you the chance to do both disciplines to a degree in which you can decide which one you'd like to focus on.


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## amy leppo

Which boats have you tried so far? Have you been downriver? or getting familiar with flatwater stuff?


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## gh

It depends on you but just about any kayak school you go to, they will put you in a river runner. I think its a stable way to start and will also teach you good technique. If you are hanging out at the playpark and not going downriver as you progress, sell the rr and buy a playboat. I think the burn, trigger, lil joe, mamba, diesel work well in this category, have fun.


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## GAtoCSU

rockinRio said:


> I mean...
> 
> Granted I wouldn't recommend that to everyone, he is aggressive, and has a stunted fear gene.


I'm not going to get into a big arguement about which route is better. But, keep in mind that most women have a "self-preservation" gene that most of us men lost a long time ago. I was a very, very strong advocate that a playboat off the bat is the best way to go. It will FORCE you to learn edge control, balance, drive, etc that a creek/river runner wouldn't force upon the new boater.

After seeing the beginner boating scene agian (it had been years for me until recently) I've reverted away from that view of things and become a more conservative instructor. I want new boaters, and especially people who might be more timid to have the best time that they can.

Not every boater wants to get to the gnar and I would guess that a good 75%+ of whitewater boaters never get off class 3 and are perfectly content with it.

Have a good first few experiences on the river and it won't be your last. 

Scott


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## yourrealdad

I am going to have to agree with peaches here. A playboat or even a river running playboat is going to feel more squirrly than a true river runner. If a newbie is constantly feeling uncomfortable and swimming they are going to hate trying to kayak and might give it up. Yeah some people learn how to kayak at an exponential rate and are fine being in a playboat off the bat, but I think most people take at least a season or two before they are ready to be comfortable in a playboat. I think it is important to have an idea of what kind of boating you want to be doing in two years. As an instructor that is what I ask people who are looking at boats to decide what is right. Also if you buy a quality river runner like the Trigger or Diesel then you should be able to sell it later and easily have enough money for a playboat or river running playboat. Start safe and happy, do what ever you feel comfortable in.
To answer your question:
Riverrunner- Liquid Logic Trigger
Riverrunning Play- Wavesport EZ or EZG 
Playboat-Dagger Kingpin 6.1 or Wavesport Project 45 or Jackson Fun and Star series
I would say the Trigger is the most comfortable and "stable" feeling boat it is also a pretty sought after boat by women.


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## River Girl

What about the Pyrhana Burn? I am new to the sport, and loved that boat. It was nothing but smiles.

However, when I got in an old school playboat (Necky Witch) I seriously flipped coming out of 7+ eddy peel outs. Not very fun 

Yeah, I think I am gonna buy a solid river running boat.


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## gh

You will see the burn in my list. I think it as a great boat and will serve you well as you improve. I love mine.


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## yourrealdad

the burn is a great boat, but it is not really for women who are on the lighter side of life. If you look at the small version it is 63 gal and is for paddlers 99-209lbs. That is a pretty big range. Mid is 150lbs. The trigger is 53 gal I believe and that seems a little more reasonable for a lighter paddler (under 150lbs) to push around, not that 63 is huge but that is ten more gallons.


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## holley

Personally, I would advocate learning in a hybrid or riverrunning-playboat. I agree that a person can get a little too relaxed in a big river runner or a creek boat as a beginner. Then when they get their next boat, they wonder why they are spending so much time upside down. I learned in a Method and I loved that thing! It was small but stable, great running rivers, and it did not allow me to be lazy about edge control. I learned about edges right away, and I think it helped define my boating style as a beginner. 

I guess I would put the Fun series in the same category as the EZ/EZG. And maybe even consider a Juice? It's still a little slicey, but not too big and really stable through rapids. I haven't paddled a Trigger, but I do have a pretty reliable roll and I feel like the LiquidLogic boats are the hardest boats I've ever tried to roll. I'm not a big fan, at least of the smaller LL boats. 

And speaking of size...it does matter here. Animasgirl, I would really recommend that whatever you choose, you make sure it is the right size for you. Too small or too big can really mess with your learning curve, so be careful of buying something because it is a bargain and not because it is suited for you. Get out there and demo boats on the river before you decide, because the way it feels in a pool or pond is not a great gauge for what it will feel like on the river. I think an experienced boater can get a good feel for a boat in flat water, but I think an on-river demo is wise for a beginner. 

Last thing...outfitting. Get some help with your outfitting, and if possible get help from a gal pal. I think we tend to outfit our boats a bit differently than the guys. Our hips are different so hip pad thickness and placement can be different; and we often sit lower in the boats than they do, so a thin layer of foam under the seat can be helpful. Often, the right outfitting can make all the difference with boat control. 

Hope you find what you like and have some fun out there!


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## animasgirl

Wow- I didn't expect such awesome feed back! Thanks, I'm thinking the EZ seems to be the consensus...


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## mojomom

*Ezg*

I'd suggest the EZG rather than the older EZ. There is enough difference to make a difference and if you are smaller, you'll probably get a better fit in an EZG 42. I'm 5'5", 115, and the old EZ felt a bit big, but the EZG 42 is just right.

Holly, great advice! It was fun to see the Method mentioned. It wasn't my first boat, but it was my "step-up" boat and the first boat I every really loved. In lots of ways my EZG feels a lot like the Method, which is probably why I like it so much.


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## COUNT

Has anyone suggested the Inazone yet? Great intro boat similar to the EZ and Method. Pretty stable, easy to roll, playable, good in big water. I loved mine.

COUNT


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## ldebell

I would also suggest the EZ/EZG. I own an EZ because I got a screaming deal on it the year the EZG came out--but the EZG would be a better fit given my size (small). Most of the women I paddle with have an EZ or EZG or there are a few in the playboat in this series (ZG I believe). The Jackson boats--either the fun series or the star series are what I'm looking at for my next boat. Jackson seems to be one of the only companies really paying attention to the needs of the smaller boater. The EZ took alot of work to outfit to scale it down for my 5'2"--I have foam blocks inserted under the seat to lift it up so that my knees actually reach the knee pads and a fair bit of extra foam in the hip pads. Beware of the cracking issue found in early models of the EZG. 

Linsey


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## WisegirlII

I'm not so far removed from what it's like to be a beginner boater and I'd cast my vote for a more stable "scary water" boat as my friend Lisa would say, rather than a playboat design.

When I started out I asked the same question as you and got similiar advice. In the end, after demo-ing many boats, I ended up with a Trigger. It was a great boat. It punched through things (read: when I ended up going where I didn't want or mean to, into holes etc. I could often punch my way through), which helped build my confidence and allowed me to get down the river without swimming all the time. I was also able to try things out, like paddling over little pour overs, or hitting big waves or going for scary looking eddy lines, that I might have avoided in a less stable boat. This fit with my style of how I (key word there, versus others ideas) wanted to learn. Was this boat so bomb proof that I never had to learn any skills? No. I doubt it's possible as a beginner to get on the river, in any boat, without learning some new skils, even a creek boat. 

When I started out and was told to get a "river running playboat", so that I'd have a better learning curve, I took this advice and demoed a 2 Fun for a Girls at Play clinic (I had paddled the end of the previous season, could roll in the pool, lake, and sometimes the river, but that was it). All the other girls were in river runners or creek boats. After the clinic, when I turned the kayak back into the shop, I told the guys there I'd renamed it the, "2 Fun My ASS", because while everyone else, for the most part, was making it down the river, I had a hard time staying upright in the rapids. One of the instuctors pointed out that a river running play boat is built to play and so, by design, it will want to stay in the feature and "play". As a begginer, unless your goal is to just learn to playboat, you probably want to be able to move through and/or around things rather than get stuck in them until you are savvy enough to want to stick in features.

Again, it depends what you want to do. Playboating can teach you a lot of skills, but so can knowing how to read and run a river. I've been fortunate to have great kayaking mentors and most of them agree with having a more stable beginner boat that allows you to try different things while learning river running skills. If you get out there and get after it, you'll have plenty of chances to practice rolling and to bump up your learning curve the way *you* want to, without your boat doing it for you!

Have fun out there!


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## KimW

I would agree with those pushing the general river runner design. I have had a couple friends get into the sport this year. Those that chose something like the Trigger, Mamba (or for a better deal the Inazone 222 would be awesome) have honestly had more fun. The first year or two unless you are quite agressive is really about feeling comfortable and learning how to read the river and get from point A to B safely. My friends who have picked more playful boats have felt scared not as excited to get in the river. Plus, if you decide later that you want a more playful boat you can always hold onto your river runner for when you want to step up to more challenging water later on. 

I have an EZG 42 and love it as well, but it wasn't my first boat. I just think for a true beginner something less squirty and stable will make you have more fun which will keep you on the river! Good luck and have fun!

Kim


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## kclowe

I don't know where you are located, but I have a trigger on the swap. I'm in Aurora and I paddle every weekend. If you would like to try it out, get in touch with me and if we're going to be in the same area you can take it for a spin. 

Kim

720-935-7768


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## hanala

Hey there. You probably have already purchased a boat (and you should let us know because we are all following this ) but I thought I would add my two cents. I have been out of town teaching for the last few weeks, and just saw this e-mail. Another female perspective might help.

I agree with what everyone is saying, it comes down to your own agression towards the sport and what you want out of your first years of kayaking. I have to admit, I was middle of the road, and still am. I wanted to be able to run down a river and surf some waves. The thought of doing cartwheels in holes was not my thing when I first started. My first boat was the Inazone 220. It was a great boat for my desires. I flipped enough to dial in my roll, but went through enough rapids upright to build confidence. It also surfed. I finally got a place where I wanted more. Now I am in the 2 Fun. I don't think that I would have been happy learning in that boat, but it is perfect now.

That being said, we tend to put most students in river runners, like the Mamba. They still flip (as I can attest to the multiple recuses that I did in the last couple of weeks) but they are more stable than playboats. Our students built up a lot of confidence in a little time. They were able to learn how to eddy turn, ferry and work their way down class III rapids. The river runners have enough edge (and planing hull) to learn eddy turns, ferries and even surf some waves. Once you are ready to move up, you can keep it for big water or sell it to the next newbie who needs a boat.

If you are anything like me, I think you would be happy in the Inazone or Mamba (or something like that.) I have a Mamba 7.5 in my "quiver" and love taking it out on big water runs. If you want to be doing bow stalls, go for the 2 Fun or EZG. Note: my friend who is very like me just got the EZG. She said she is glad she has it now, but wouldn't have wanted to learn in it. 

Hope this helps. Just remember, everyone is different. What worked for me might not be the best for you. But, no matter what, have fun out on the river!

Oh, and I totally agree with the outfitting. My girlfriends and I spend hours getting our boats just right (but we are lazy enough to wait for our first swim, then we outfit the boat. I don't know why we do this.) I know a lot of people who purchase JK Happy Feet and the Sweet Cheeks/Happy Seat (I never know what to call it) and put it in their non-Jackson kayak. They love it. For many, it is the way to go.

Hanala


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## Boat-ERS

You may have already bought a boat, but I am going to put my 2 cents in and say a Jackson Fun. They are stable, but not so stable that you are never going to flip over in moving water. I would stay away from an Inazone, there are better boats out there (unless $$ is a concern). I started a Inazone (I had some great experiences) and switched to a Jackson this year (I just wanted a new boat). 

I had a friend who was a true beginner, went out one day in a Inazone, hated it, then went out a week later in a FUn and Loved it! She is progressing well and loves the sport and loves her FUN! She flips over, but it is making her try her roll in moving water (she hasn't gotten a combat roll yet, but it is almost there, and she tries everytime!) Although it is also making her actual paddling skills strong because she knows that she could flip over if she doesn't use the right strokes. 

We have a friend who is in a tank of a boat, he is starting to run class III and hasn't had a swim because the boat doesn't tip over. I am concerned that he is getting the wrong kind of confidence because of the super stable boat he is in and not because of his actual skills. His actual skills are no where near the women's in the Fun because he is not forced to use them in a big boat.

You will make the right choice for you (if you haven't already!).


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