# Main Salmon @ 1.5ft (family trip)



## cue2go (Sep 5, 2010)

kazak4x4 said:


> Just a bit of a TR and a video I made for my family. It's goofy, but it's for the memories of the kids


Looks like a great family time. Thanks for sharing.


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## cataraftgirl (Jun 5, 2009)

Glad you guys had a great time. The Main is an awesome family trip. We must have been just ahead of the yellow jackets (6/28-7/5), as we had little trouble with them. We saw the most at our last camp, but they didn't bother us much and no stings. I did however have one crawl through the sipper hole in my coffee mug lid and go for a caffeine swim. I always enjoy your videos. Thanks for posting.


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## Jake D (Jul 7, 2009)

Really nice video. How old were the kids on the trip? My daughter will be 4 next summer and would love to take her down.


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## spider (Jun 20, 2011)

Nice, that's the river Im applying for next year. Wife and boy have been getting left out but I think the boy will be of age by next year.


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## kazak4x4 (May 25, 2009)

The youngest was 5 I believe, but all our kids are river trained and experienced. All swam class 2 and 3 rapids in a controlled environment, all wearing crouch straps during bigger rapids and all know the river camp workings (groover, clean up, pack up, etc). We usually have very serious safety talks and practice throw roping, self rescues and assist rescues during flat water. Kids love it. 

Main is a great river to take kids and wives on. Make it comfortable for them and it will be the best trips you go on!


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## Montana Cat 65 (Jul 31, 2013)

That's a beautiful video and I am so envious. (We didn't draw any permits this year and now schedules have filled up so cancellations won't work.) We did it last year with a 7-year-old and a 9-year-old. Hoping for better permit luck next year.


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## MikeThulin1972 (Mar 23, 2012)

Thanks Alex , I'm going to apply for next year as well and plan in taking a 5 year old as well .. When is a good range of dates to shoot for. ?


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## David Miller (May 23, 2010)

Great vid thanks! I did it this year for the first time. What a great get-a-way.


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## kazak4x4 (May 25, 2009)

MikeThulin1972 said:


> Thanks Alex , I'm going to apply for next year as well and plan in taking a 5 year old as well .. When is a good range of dates to shoot for. ?


I am not an expert on Idaho rivers, but seems like anything below 2ft @ Corn Creek (<13,000 cfs) would be a good forgiving level for little kids to survive a swim. Looking at the charts, that level usually happens second half of July. I would definitely stay away from Main at high flow (June time).


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## cataraftgirl (Jun 5, 2009)

kazak4x4 said:


> I am not an expert on Idaho rivers, but seems like anything below 2ft @ Corn Creek (<13,000 cfs) would be a good forgiving level for little kids to survive a swim. Looking at the charts, that level usually happens second half of July. I would definitely stay away from Main at high flow (June time).


This would be my advice as well.


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## MikeThulin1972 (Mar 23, 2012)

Thanks ... I've been kayaking for years but kinda new to rafting ..and by the video the rapids looked pretty straight forward .. Thanks for info 


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## kazak4x4 (May 25, 2009)

MikeThulin1972 said:


> Thanks ... I've been kayaking for years but kinda new to rafting ..and by the video the rapids looked pretty straight forward .. Thanks for info


Following an advice from a guide book would put you in the right spot on bigger rapids. Just one rapid should be scouted just in case is the Black Canyon creek rapid. It's a straight run left of middle down the tongue.


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## duct tape (Aug 25, 2009)

MikeThulin1972 said:


> Thanks ... I've been kayaking for years but kinda new to rafting ..and by the video the rapids looked pretty straight forward .. Thanks for info
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Mountain Buzz


I will add, having followed kazak down the Main 5 days later, at roughly the same water level that:

1. Alex is a good oarsman and makes the lines look easy.
2. The video, as usual for most video, underestimates the volume and drop of many rapids.
3. It's not a hard river at that level, but there are still several spots where scouting might be a good idea and plenty of places to get in trouble. We did fine but a couple of missed pulls at say, Chittam or Five Mile (watch out for that one) could have meant a different story. Also, Black Ck is a straight shot down the left but big enough to flip a raft if off line.


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## MikeThulin1972 (Mar 23, 2012)

What is the best guide ? Doing ladore of Labor Day so that should be a good test


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## MikeThulin1972 (Mar 23, 2012)

Yeah I don't take any river or rapid lightly. .. Especially with kids in the boat .. Looks like worse case kids could wk something if I had any doubts .. And having done most of ark and Shoshone with a gopro. .. Videos are more of a help not a guide


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## kazak4x4 (May 25, 2009)

Thanks duct tape for the correction. Yes, the video does make it look small, I shouldn't make an assumption Main is a class 2 river. The problem I found with most rapids on Main, the scouts are too long and hard to do (except the Black Creek). We camped at Lower Pine (right before Big Ballard rapid), so we hiked a bit and scouted that just in case. But I found most of the rapids were easily scouted from standing on the cooler. At that level (<13,000 cfs) there is plenty of time to read and run and correct your position before hitting holes.

If interested, I have another video on my channel with all the rapids recorded and named but it's a lot lower water level (~2,000 cfs).

Mike, I used an old River Maps book, but it's way outdated. I just purchased this just to have the hikes and such:

Idaho's Salmon River by Eric Newell and Allison Newell once it gets here, I can post a review of it if you like.


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## duct tape (Aug 25, 2009)

MikeThulin1972 said:


> What is the best guide ? Doing ladore of Labor Day so that should be a good test
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Mountain Buzz


We had both the River Maps and Newell books. Both were good and often complimentary, especially when, as was often the case, we weren't exactly sure where we were and were trying to find the campsite. Good mile by mile descriptions.

I would say that the Newell offered better, more complete descriptions of the rapids, including warning of the occ. hole etc. in the smaller ones, but frequently we felt the verbal description made the rapid sound much worse than it turned out to be. Could be simply due to different water levels though. The River Maps rapid descriptions were much briefer.

Both were plenty waterproof as we constantly found out.


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## duct tape (Aug 25, 2009)

kazak4x4 said:


> The problem I found with most rapids on Main, the scouts are too long and hard to do (except the Black Creek).


Agree completely. The Chittam and Big Mallard scouts were both a rocky, poison ivy mess.

The Elkhorn scout, IMO at that level, was completely unnecessary (we went left and then around (some over) the domer rock. The bottom half of the rapid, which we didn't scout, was easy.

Vinegar scout was also not needed. Just down the right middle for us.

Enjoy you videos Alex. I watched the Westwater ones yesterday as I might be going there later this month.


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## duct tape (Aug 25, 2009)

MikeThulin1972 said:


> Looks like worse case kids could wk something if I had any doubts ..
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Mountain Buzz


Walk would be a real b*itch at most bigger rapids. Plenty of talus/scree rocks where I kept saying to myself - I'm better off running blind than breaking a leg here. Plus poison ivy everywhere. I'd think the kids would probably be safer in the boat.


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## kazak4x4 (May 25, 2009)

Westwater is at 8400cfs now, very fun but intimidating level. If it stays, hit Last Chance rapid right over the rock, you won't be disappointed, make sure you are squared off! 

Remember, at Skull, point bow to the river right, pull 5 back strokes as you pass the crest of the river, turn down river and grab a beer as you enjoy the views of the massive Skull.


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## MikeThulin1972 (Mar 23, 2012)

How hard was it to get your permit ? How many years did you apply ?


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## cataraftgirl (Jun 5, 2009)

kazak4x4 said:


> Thanks duct tape for the correction. Yes, the video does make it look small, I shouldn't make an assumption Main is a class 2 river. The problem I found with most rapids on Main, the scouts are too long and hard to do (except the Black Creek). We camped at Lower Pine (right before Big Ballard rapid), so we hiked a bit and scouted that just in case. But I found most of the rapids were easily scouted from standing on the cooler. At that level (<13,000 cfs) there is plenty of time to read and run and correct your position before hitting holes.
> 
> If interested, I have another video on my channel with all the rapids recorded and named but it's a lot lower water level (~2,000 cfs).
> 
> ...


That guide is excellent, and has very good diagrams and info on all the big rapids at different water levels. The maps on the other hand suck. They are very small and hard to read. I supplement with the big guide/big maps by Duwain Whittis. It's much easier to see. A combo of those two will get you down the MS quite well.


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## MikeThulin1972 (Mar 23, 2012)

Thanks for info .. Just need to figure out permit and make a plan for next season. !! 


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## PBR62 (Feb 17, 2014)

Alex
Thanks for posting and thanks for Lodore guidance. We had a great trip.
Ran a Super Puma on the Main two years ago 4.5' at Corn creek. A bit under-boated: really pushed my limits. Big Mallard looked alot more manageable for you than what I saw as we flipped in the Bonzai wave.


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## carvedog (May 11, 2005)

MikeThulin1972 said:


> Thanks for info .. Just need to figure out permit and make a plan for next season. !!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Mountain Buzz


This is raftable almost year round. October would be cooler but good. 
Hit it this fall.


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## Fuzzie (Jan 23, 2009)

What gauge are you looking at when you say 1.5 ft. I put in on June 24 of this year what was the flow then on the same gauge?


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## cataraftgirl (Jun 5, 2009)

Fuzzie said:


> What gauge are you looking at when you say 1.5 ft. I put in on June 24 of this year what was the flow then on the same gauge?


There is no USGS gauge at Corn Creek. They report feet based on direct measurement at the ramp. So in order to figure out your Corn Creek level you can do one or two things.....call the North Fork Ranger office and ask for the level at Corn Creek, or guesstimate by adding the USGS flow at Shoup + the flow at the mouth of the Middle Fork at Shoup = cfs flow at Corn Creek. Then you convert to feet. The guidebook by Eric Newell has a cfs to feet conversion chart. The daily cfs & feet level is always posted at the Corn Creek ranger A-frame.


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## Fuzzie (Jan 23, 2009)

Thanks Cataraftgirl, now I understand why I could not find it. I missed it at the put in...


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## cataraftgirl (Jun 5, 2009)

Fuzzie said:


> Thanks Cataraftgirl, now I understand why I could not find it. I missed it at the put in...


It would be great if Corn Creek had a gauge. It's kind of confusing, since some of us like to reference feet and others go by cfs.


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## kazak4x4 (May 25, 2009)

cataraftgirl said:


> It would be great if Corn Creek had a gauge. It's kind of confusing, since some of us like to reference feet and others go by cfs.


That's the reason I state both when I mention Main, cover both basis


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## duct tape (Aug 25, 2009)

I liked to think more about the Whitebird gauge. Made me think the bigger water was coming.


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## Whetstone (May 17, 2013)

I always enjoy your vids. That was certainly a fun one. Your boy in the bikini top is a little concerning,  but what the heck. Looks like fun had by all. Makes me a bit jealous. My river days have been too few this season.


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## kazak4x4 (May 25, 2009)

Whetstone said:


> I always enjoy your vids. That was certainly a fun one. Your boy in the bikini top is a little concerning,  but what the heck. Looks like fun had by all. Makes me a bit jealous. My river days have been too few this season.


Thank you! That was truth or dare game, my buddy Dan is the best at that game and would play for hours with kids coming up with craziest dares for the little ones. We had them count turds in the groover, jump in the freezing water, smelling stinky toes and eating sand. The kids would do anything for a dare!

Sadly, I didn't get to go on many trips myself this year either


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