# Which one?



## TheSalamanderCo (Oct 28, 2014)

I’m looking at dry suits and can’t make up my mind. IR Arch Rival? Level 6 Emperor? Kokotat Meridian?
I just can’t make up my mind. Thoughts anyone?


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## Electric-Mayhem (Jan 19, 2004)

IMHO... Kokatat > IR > Level 6.

Kokatat is basically the industry standard and really stand behind their stuff.


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## mkashzg (Aug 9, 2006)

Kokotat hands down IMO. Turns out you get what you pay for!


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## Norcalcoastie (Jan 4, 2019)

Kokatat all day. I even own 2 of their “budget” Hydrus models for family members, and find them to be very reliable and durable. I personally use the Kokatat Expedition. 

I might use a drysuit 12-20 days a year if I’m lucky.


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

Don't settle for less than the Kokatat, I have the radius and am absolutely in love with it. The waist zipper is the bomb, relief from either end easily. Get the Chili Habenero liner to go with it, you won't regret it.


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## RogueGuide (Oct 25, 2019)

Kokatat 100%! I own the meridian and love it! I have been in my drysuit playing in the water every weekend for the last 2 months. Yesterday my buddy and I were doing laps for hours in our packrafts on a class 3 waterfall with snow on the ground! 

I would also highly recommend getting a onesie to go underneath. Kokatat sells one called the habanero, I think. I use a smart wool onesie. Either way you will want something that will keep you warm and wick any moisture away from your body. 

Invest in your fun! Black Friday is going to be the best/cheapest time to invest!


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## D. Hippie (Feb 18, 2008)

IR has essentially caught up with Kokatat in quality. Have had both and they both make great products. I was sold on the devils club from IR by the protection to the gaskets and zippers. Every time I hang up my Kokatat drytop I have to tuck the gaskets in to keep them out of the sun. Not a big deal, but details are the difference when overall the products are equal in quality.


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

Yeah, but IR is all pretty much rear entry, I had one of those back in the day, OMG what a pain to put on and take off compared to the front entry ones, nothing beats Kokatat's 2 piece waist zip for ease of entry and exit. For them to be equal in quality, one would think they'd be closer to equal in price. We had a gal with a 5 year old IR suit on this year's grand, the suit, not the gaskets failed at a seam when she was trying to don it. Never seen that happen, 24 inch long opening. Said she had only worn it once, and granted it was an older one, but wow.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

Electric-Mayhem said:


> Kokatat is basically the industry standard and really stand behind their stuff.


"Lifetime warranty" isn't quite the same anymore...but it's still great stuff.


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

Kokatat warranty:


All Kokatat products are fully guaranteed to the original owner against defects in materials and workmanship for the reasonable life of the item. Products found to be defective will be repaired or replaced at Kokatat’s option. Repairs due to normal wear and tear, accident, abuse, etc., will be made for a reasonable charge. Latex gaskets are not covered by the Kokatat warranty. There is a 2 year limited warranty on all Hydrus 2.5 suits. Kokatat specifically disavows any other representative warranty or liability relative to the condition or use of the product.


The IR warranty
*We stand behind our products 100%.* We can't promise your kayaking gear will last forever, but we can promise to take care of any defects in material, workmanship, or design for the life of the garment for the original owner


Both seem pretty reasonable given that folks likely try and have a suit they trashed covered under warranty. Things wear out, especially in a river environment.. I remember I had a favorite pair of ski bibs from Marmot, I wore the heck out of them, sent them back in as the fabric was failing in numerous places, they said they hadn't made them in 5 years, but did knock $250.00 off a pair of their new design for me, I thought that pretty magnanimous of them.


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## D. Hippie (Feb 18, 2008)

IR had a bad reputation in the past, but general consensus from what I have heard is they have caught up. I can only speak for my experience but I have had my devils club for five years and have yet to even need to send it in. Replaced the gaskets a few times but no less than on my Kokatat drytop. 

I'm also a big fan of the rear entry. Was skeptical at first, but the constant water down the tunnel of the front zip was frustrating. I don't have any trouble zipping it up by myself. Could see issues if you had some shoulder problems. I am wary of the two piece waste zip, although I do see the appeal. Don't really have a specific reason against it other than I'm happy with the rear entry. 

I do remember liking the original Kokatat gaskets.

Bottom line, you can't really go wrong with either.


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## dirtbagkayaker (Oct 29, 2008)

NRS has Dry suits on sale now!


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## crackeryaker (Oct 15, 2003)

I've had an IR for 7-8 years and been very happy with it.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

MT4Runner said:


> "Lifetime warranty" isn't quite the same anymore...but it's still great stuff.





MNichols said:


> Kokatat warranty:
> 
> All Kokatat products are fully guaranteed to the original owner against defects in materials and workmanship for the reasonable life of the item. Products found to be defective will be repaired or replaced at Kokatat’s option. Repairs due to normal wear and tear, accident, abuse, etc., will be made for a reasonable charge. Latex gaskets are not covered by the Kokatat warranty. There is a 2 year limited warranty on all Hydrus 2.5 suits. Kokatat specifically disavows any other representative warranty or liability relative to the condition or use of the product.
> 
> ...


I'm not complaining--just being real about Kokatat.

I bought my first suit in 2003 or so and put 9 years on it when it delaminated. Kokatat said they didn't like the delam and worked with Gore to get me a new suit. That suit is now 6 or 7 years old. I didn't trash the first one, but they made a lifetime customer of me.



Maintenance/inspection used to be free. It's now a fee:
https://kokatat.com/shop/mens/repairs-maintenance


for those rates, I'll replace my own gaskets...and I've now gone through 3 sets of gaskets in the 2nd suit. Thinking I'll use NRS gaskets this round. I have an NRS drytop that is 14+ years old and still on its original gaskets.

Do I still hands-down recommend Kokatat? Heck yeah!


The Kokatat GTX suits I bought for my ladies were new/used on eBay and $200/ea. I won't expect a bit of warranty on them as I'm not the original purchaser, but I'm glad to buy their product for my loved ones.


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

Nice story of outstanding customer service. Every time I've interacted with them the results have been positive, but it's never been on a warranty issue as I've never had an issue with their gear, we have a local shop that replaces hand and neck gaskets for 100$, for that amount I'm glad to pay them for the hassle. 

Glad to know they treat customers like this, another vote for Kokatat from me


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

At $100, I'd definitely get mine done locally. Do they do the Kokatat hot glue system, or Aquaseal? 

Kayak Academy in Seattle uses Kokatat's proprietary system, but is the same price. Shipping also adds up...and if I'm hammering a gasket in 3 years, I may as well replace myself!


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

MT4Runner said:


> At $100, I'd definitely get mine done locally. Do they do the Kokatat hot glue system, or Aquaseal?
> 
> Kayak Academy in Seattle uses Kokatat's proprietary system, but is the same price. Shipping also adds up...and if I'm hammering a gasket in 3 years, I may as well replace myself!


Aquaseal...


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## jspoon14 (Aug 5, 2012)

MT4Runner said:


> I'm not complaining--just being real about Kokatat.
> 
> I bought my first suit in 2003 or so and put 9 years on it when it delaminated. Kokatat said they didn't like the delam and worked with Gore to get me a new suit. That suit is now 6 or 7 years old. I didn't trash the first one, but they made a lifetime customer of me.
> 
> ...


I second this story, they did the same thing for me with an old dry suit i bought at an auction. GorTex delimited and they made me a new one with custom pockets like the other one I had. Also a customer for life, I send it back to them yearly to get pressure tested and patched and they do a great job. I had them replace the gaskets on the new one as well and they did a great job, looked like new not a replacement. They did much better than I can do! 

Just my 2 cents.


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## LLubchenco (Nov 23, 2016)

*kokatat>IR*

Mostly the same experience as everyone else has mentioned so far. If you're taller, the kokatat ones tend to have a bit better inseam to height ratio. Also, for me, the gore-tex fabric has proven to be just slightly more prone to pinholes, but far more breathable than when I tried my friends devil's club suit. They are both worthy, and $42 for a yearly pressure test and patch from kokatat is worth every penny. Good luck with your purchase!


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## kayakfreakus (Mar 3, 2006)

Another kokatat vote, will be replacing mine after a decade this year. The repair prices have gone up significantly and sometimes the wait can be a bit are only gripes, but prices on everything everywhere have gone up significantly.

Look at kayak academy repairs, they are authorized, quick, and have been super happy with them when I needed a quick fix.


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## Dave Frank (Oct 14, 2003)

I switched to IR about 5 years ago, when they started to sponsor Riley. The suits have preformed as well if not better than Kokatat's and as others have said, the Devil's Club I have now seems really bomber.

I have an XL old Gmer that got gaskets and all the little leak bandaids that I've not worn once since switching to IR five years ago. $350. its yellow. gaskets and leak proofing were $250.

I have a gray XL IR that was new in '15, but has been stored (lost) since '16. Just found it. Also $350


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

I have a gray XL IR that was new in '15 said:


> I'll take it, I pm'd you


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## kellycorbin (Jun 29, 2007)

*KOKATAT! *

No question.


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

kellycorbin said:


> *KOKATAT! *
> 
> No question.


Agreed, but I want an Emergency spare, for me or a passenger on grand canyon. Cheap insurance when you think about it....


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## treewell (Mar 20, 2006)

Several seasons ago I sent my Kokotat drytop in for the $20 water test. Got a message that they'd noticed a bit of delamination and were sending a new one.


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## MikeG (Mar 6, 2004)

*Sweet?*

Same great experience with Kokatat. I had my last one for at least 15 years and sent it in twice for the air test and repair. The zipper finally died and it was too costly to repair.

I was going to buy another one but then found an amazing deal on a Sweet drysuit. I have had it for a couple years now and it is great. The T-Zip is much nicer to use and I think it will last as long. Also, the Sweet is much better designed for kayaking. The zipper is better placed, the spray skirt tunnel is MUCH better, and the cut is generally better. Rugged in all the right spots. The one downside is that it is slightly more clammy than the kokatat material- not bad but noticeable.


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## KSC (Oct 22, 2003)

Both are good choices so there's not a wrong answer. I had bad luck early on with IR, but because I've heard they've gotten better and the price difference was substantial, I bought an IR drytop (not suit) when I needed to replace my drytop. 

My complaint with the IR I'd bought in the past was that it felt great at first, but within a year was leaking a lot. This one seems to be holding up better, but not as good as Kokatat. 

I'm going to need a new drysuit in the next year or so and plan on going Kokatat again for that. They seem to have better longevity and what's key to me is you can send it and get it pressure tested and patched. I'm not quite sure how that works with IR, but I'd find out the answer before you invest in a drysuit.

I put a quite bit of use on my drysuit in a season and currently have 7 seasons on it. I've sent it back a few times for patching. I sent it in last summer and it's still quite dry, although there's a bend in the zipper that I'm worried might fail at some point.

Now that said, the pricing doesn't make the choice as obvious to me as it used to be. If you send in your suit to Kokatat, you can end up spending upwards of $200. If you can get a sale on a Stohlquist or IR and purchase it for $600, then you're looking at spending 1/3 of the cost just for a maintenance repair. But if you're looking at $1200 Kokatat vs. $1000, then it seems like you're still better off w/ Kokatat.


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## lmyers (Jun 10, 2008)

MT4Runner said:


> At $100, I'd definitely get mine done locally. Do they do the Kokatat hot glue system, or Aquaseal?
> 
> Kayak Academy in Seattle uses Kokatat's proprietary system, but is the same price. Shipping also adds up...and if I'm hammering a gasket in 3 years, I may as well replace myself!


I've had my gaskets replaced by Kokatat and by the shop in Salida. I can't personally tell any difference between Kotatat's "proprietary system" and Aquaseal.... and I go through a set every other year.


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

Frasier at Colorado Sports Recycler in Salida just did a set on my old drysuit for me last week, I compared the job he did to the brand spanking new set on my Kokatat and I can't tell the difference.


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