# Rescue Jacket for big Kayakers /Astral Green



## MtnGuyXC (Jul 20, 2006)

Any of you bigger kayakers 190 lb & above paddling the Astral Green jacket? I know it's rated to have enough flotation but are you bigger guys finding that to be true. Any other recsue jackets that you guys like I also would have interest in hearing about. I weigh about 215lb.

Thanxs,
MtnGuyXC


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## stinginrivers (Oct 18, 2003)

Just so you know how flotation works, the bigger you are the less flotation is needed as you displace more water.

An average adult needs any where between 10 and 11lbs to float them. To be a type 3 pfd it is required to have 15.2 lbs of float.

If you are using this for lot's of rescue situations were you will be a rescue swimmer then a higher float jacket is definitely advised.

If you are using this for kayaking beware of higher float jackets as they tend to NOT let you go all the upside down to set up for your roll.


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## Jensjustduckie (Jun 29, 2007)

While that sounds logical a bigger person will also go way deeper in a rapid. My husband swam funnel on Westy and went DEEP, so deep he came up choking as his body was trying to force him to breathe while he was still under water. He is a BIG man though 300+lbs.

He is now looking for the highest float jacket possible for kayakers.

If you're on small rivers it is not a big deal but big water where you may be going many feet under water is a different story.


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## stinginrivers (Oct 18, 2003)

Big water is a little bit different story, that story is stay in the boat.

It does not matter though if you are kayaking as a high float jacket will not always allow you to set up for your roll properly.


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## kayakfreakus (Mar 3, 2006)

I cant speak for the actual float as I have not had to test it yet  But I will say I am really impressed with it as a bigger guy - lets just say bigger than you. I have had it out already this year a couple times, with my max cold water layering and there is plenty of room, it sits in place really well, and I barely notice it.

I used to have the Lotus P-vest and had the same thoughts as you due to a swim in Gore years back where I went deep and met the bottom so I bought the extra insert for the top pocket that gave you extra float, it helped mentally but I did not think it made a real big difference.

There was a thread I cant find now about high float PFD's (rafters) where a couple people said they used their normal PFD's and then added this and liked it:

NRS Anti-Gravity Shirt

Been thinking about trying it out if I could find it in a store, there is definitely enough room in the Green Jacket to accomodate it, just wonder about how bulky it would feel.


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## FLOWTORCH (Mar 5, 2004)

Cant say I've tested the waters with it either but did just get off a 21day gc trip and surprise surprise, it works. I'm 6ft 210-15 too. About the only place I tried it was swimming in pools at places like Deer Creek. The jacket failed miserably at letting me drown but the fit is incredible.


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## Claytonious (Jan 17, 2008)

stinginrivers said:


> Just so you know how flotation works, the bigger you are the less flotation is needed as you displace more water.
> quote]
> 
> That would be true if big people were somehow less dense than small people, otherwise that argument doesn't hold water.


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## spartankayaker (Aug 28, 2006)

*Extrasport Pro Creeker*



MtnGuyXC said:


> Any of you bigger kayakers 190 lb & above paddling the Astral Green jacket? I know it's rated to have enough flotation but are you bigger guys finding that to be true. Any other recsue jackets that you guys like I also would have interest in hearing about. I weigh about 215lb.
> 
> Thanxs,
> MtnGuyXC


I'm 6 ft and 220lbs and I just got an Extrasport Pro Creeker. I've had it out about half a dozen times... really comfortable, lots of adjustment points and easy to tuck up and roll... I think it has comparable float to the Green Jacket and is less expensive... I got my swiftwater resucue cert last summer through Rescue 3 Int'l and my instructor recommended it for people who primarily kayak.


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## Greg88 (Apr 7, 2009)

*floating bodies*

Lets see, if a body is less dense than water it will float and if a larger person displaces more water it should float easier because the waters density and the body's density doesn't change but there is more water displaces and per the ratio of the densities. Lets see, a cat with larger tubes floats/sits higher out of the water than a cat with smaller diameter tubes. It doesn't really float better but it sits out of the water more. This seems right to me. Any Physics Guru's out there with some real math or something to support this?

I think it would be harder to submerge a larger balloon than a smaller balloon because it displaces more water.


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## ted0 (May 19, 2008)

I'm about 255-260lbs, and switched from the Astral 300, to the Green Jacket. It floats me fine. I have swam a rapid with it on, too. I switched vests because the 300 sits too low, limiting mobility, especially while tucking with a Astral throw rope in the front pouch. The Green Jacket sits higher, and due to the tetonic plating system (similar to their Willis design), it allows more movement. 

I have not had any issues with rolling due to the Green Jacket sitting higher than the 300. My only swim was because I lost my paddle  I say check out the Green Jacket for sure. But one thing to note, is there seems to be less rib protection than the 300 rescue vest, but honestly, I don't think the 300 offered much protection anyway.


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## randomnature (Jun 10, 2007)

Baloons and boats are hollow, people are filled with beer and chicken mcnuggets. I think that the difference is weight to total displacement. This is a job for the myth busters.


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## acetomato (May 6, 2006)

It probably is a job for mythbusters but really the only way a big guy floats better than a small guy is if their weight difference is all fat. And while, for many of us (cough, cough), fat makes up a large (probably too large) amount of the difference, there is still alot of muscle weight too.

As to the original question, I'm a big guy (larger than you) and decided to go with the 300r over the green (tried on the willis before the green was available) because of the way it sat on my body. I like that its lower and out of the way. It's a personal preference thing, so try them both on for a little while and move around if you can and see how they feel. The 300r has definitely floated me on some (too many) swims.


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## stinginrivers (Oct 18, 2003)

This is taken from here.

USCG: PFD Selection, Use, Wear & Care of PFDs

These are the guys that create the specs for PFD's


Buoyancy - The tendancy of a body to float or sink in water or any other fluid. Most people will naturally float in water, especially if they fill their lungs with air. Most require only about 11 pounds (50 Newtons) of extra buoyancy to keep their head out of water. That is why a PFD with just 15.5 pounds (70 Newtons) of buoyancy can provide adequate flotation for an adult -- even a very large person. PFDs with 22 to 34 pounds (100 to 155 Newtons) can provide superior performance.

In technical terms, buoyancy is determined by Archimedes' Principle:
Any body partially or completely submerged in a fluid is buoyed up by a force equal to the weight of the fluid displaced by the body.

That means someone immersed in water is "buoyed" upward by a force equal to the weight of the volume of water that their body takes up (displaces). Gravity pulls a person's body downward by a force equal to their weight. The difference between these forces is a person's net buoyancy. A PFD is very light weight, but displaces enough water to make the PFD and the person wearing it very buoyant.

It also follows that the people hardest to float are those with compact, dense bodies. These tend to be people with athletic body builds, with a lot of bone and muscle mass, and not much fat. Fat is not as dense as muscle and bone, so people who are overweight can actually be easier to float than someone who is much smaller and leaner. Heavy people do not need a higher buoyancy PFD because of their weight.


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## acetomato (May 6, 2006)

So using that logic shouldn't kids jackets have higher buoyancy not less?


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