# newbie, I bought a jackson Rogue 10'



## thecraw (Oct 12, 2003)

Yo willy... You are super fired up. The rogue 10 is an awesome boat and will get you into all types of great places in and around Colorado. I don't own or know much about jeeps, but there are many options for using your roof. Obvious answers are to get a Thule or Yakima rack, but if $'s are an issue, there are foam block types w cam straps that work OK. 
There are so many rivers around that are perfect for the rogue. Do you have a roll? If not, it's always a good idea to get that down, but not critical to start enjoying you new adventure craft. Start in really mild moving water (class 1) or lakes. Don't know where you are located, but around boulder, you can check out gross reservoir, or boulder rez, or even horse tooth to get started. Moving into rivers, i would suggest the pump house section of the Colorado as a great next step. Along with mild sections of the Yampa. Also certain sections of the Arkansas, Gunnison, Taylor are great options as well. One of the better is the grizzly section of the Colorado just below the Shoshone section (you put in at the takeout of Shoshone and paddle into glenwood, warm up in the hot springs and grab a beer to wrap up a great day!!!)
As your skills develop, just know that you have the perfect craft for self support overnight kayak trips! With a great roll and a couple (2-3) years experience, you could consider tackling the Grand Canyon. There are many stories online of the rogues (and other crossover kayaks) that can share how to pack for overnighters and there is no shortage of options to get out and have a great adventure. 
Kayaking on rivers is amazing. It requires that you develop skills as you attempt harder water, but you can start easy and work your way up! Look into a roll class soon though. It makes the whole experience a LOT more fun to know you can right yourself instead of swimming every time.


----------



## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

You'll find more info on a Jeep site on mounting racks--try JKOwners.com. Toss the forum owner Lance over there a :flipoff2: for me. 

To get started, leave the back gate open, lower your back and passenger seats and just stuff it inside. Hit the water!!!!

Beyond that, check out a Yakima or Thule retailer for the right mounts and clips. They are $$, but so is your new Jeep. Foam blocks and cam straps work if there's a chance you'll be changing rigs or hauling your boat on someone else's rig. They are very inconvenient for frequent loading/unloading. A Yak or Thule rack with a kayak stacker (vertical bar) is the way to go. When you start running rivers, you'll need to shuttle others. It will be nice to have the ability to haul 4 boats on top when you can haul four paddlers inside. (no, the JK doesn't have much back seat legroom, but we all willingly suffer on shuttle runs to get to the rio!)

Awesome to hear that your buddy is also into it. Whitewater kayaking is a very social activity--and there is safety in numbers. Consider taking a swiftwater rescue class, too. Not only will you learn a ton more about safety, it will also teach you more about river hydraulics--that will also make you a better boater.

Welcome to the addiction!


----------



## Learch (Jul 12, 2010)

Quadratec.com is the place for all things Wrangler, and Jeep for that matter. There are body mount racks that you can still use while the top is off it you so desire. Jeeps are their own addiction!


----------



## rackattack.com (Apr 4, 2013)

wytewaterwilly - We are a new partner with Mountainbuzz and can help you out with getting that kayak up on your roof. We have a couple locations in the Denver area and also offer installation. Mention you spoke to us on the forum for 15% off most Yakima or Thule product.

As far as a good place to learn, I liked practicing on the platte river up near Deckers, as long as it's flowing it's a mostly class I, II water with the exception of the chute section which is class III. I always check eddyflower.com for water flow and class of river info.

Ryan

Rack Attack Denver


----------



## lemsip (Sep 11, 2009)

Congo cage or similar is the best way to get kayaks on a JK. You probably want one that can pivot up, allowing the hard top to come off without unscrewing the rack.

I was going to get one of these, but instead I got rid of the jeep and now weep daily.
Kargo Master 5034-1 - Kargo Master Congo Cage for 07-13 Jeep® Wrangler JK 2 Door - Quadratec

I've seem racks attached to the rain gutters on hard tops, but I think it was on an unlimited. On a 2door they would be too close together.


----------



## BCxp (Jun 3, 2012)

+1 on Rackattack. They know their stuff.

Rogue is an awesome boat and IMO the best of all the crossovers. a lot of that for me is the super comfy Jackson outfitting, especially the backband.

I've had one out on a lake in 20 kt. (G35) winds and 2-2.5 ft. short-fetch chop and it was a hoot! Paddle it right and you can get a little downwind surfing in those conditions. What impressed me the most compared to the LL Remix XP and Pyrana Fusion (both of which I owned and paddled a lot for a while) is:

In lake chop like above if yo want to take a rest, you can park the boat broadside to the wind and it'll pretty much stay there without weather or lee cocking. Yeah, you bob a bit, but you also don't have to fight boat & wind every second like the others. Especially in an unladen boat. Not sure how that would change if you load it up, but if you're careful about keeping cargo trim even it should be perhaps better due to lower CG. 

Slogging upwind in those condition was hugely easier than in the other hybrids. Again less cocking plus better tracking with skeg down, primarily because the fin dropped deeper than the others.

You might find some of the web articles on boat trim interesting. And definitely read posts about expedition packing that The Craw suggests. There's some good ones at "jacksonkayak.com. in the Rogue and Journey sections and also over at the LiquidLogic site. And then go play with trimming the skeg. There's more to flatwater paddling than just going from A to B, IMO. he Rogue wold be fun to sail, too. If ou want to learn about deepwater rescues, there's a lot out there,some of the best at Wayne Horodovitch's Universiy of Sea Kayaking site. Get out on the flats in winds and you'll learn a lot about boat handling & control

Other advantages IMO: 1) it's easier to carry for me. Balances better on my shoulder. 2)I thought the skeg control was the easiest of all three and the best at setting between full up and full down. And those subtle differences will become noticeable and more useful as you learn the boat.

The aft hatch was the best because it didn't take Godzilla like the Pyrana, and was more durable than the LL. Surprisingly, I had no leakage on that bouncy day above. I suggest keeping it (and the entire boat) treated every month or more with 303.

If you get into deep water self rescues (which you should unless you get a reliable roll the Rogue seemed the easiest to get back into the cockpit. If you do flatwater a lot, consider a pump and definitely float bags. The Rogue will hold a lot of water if you capsize. Bags ate a must for WW. Skirt is good not only for WW but also rough days on the flat.

Have fun. You're going to love it. if you're ever over WestSlope way and looking for good river/pond fishing send me a PM. We've got a super C1-II fish float here.

A rod holder might be something to consider if you fish enough and don't have a Popeil, and definitely a paddle park. (Suggest a leash, too for flatwater)

A Rogue is on my wishlist, too. What color did you get? The Rogue is also a good workout boat.

Enjoy...it's a blast!


----------



## rackattack.com (Apr 4, 2013)




----------



## wytewaterwilly (Aug 21, 2011)

Thanks for the overwhelming amount of replies. I actually am big into the jeep scene already and feel like I've seen it all when it comes to jeep parts. Thats why I was lookin for a unique setup that would be cost efficient. (Like everything else in this sport, even the racks will bend you over!) I have not yet mastered a roll, got out on the river at the golden play park for my first time this Saturday. It was amazing! Practiced a few rolls and even swam a couple times. Thanks for all your guys' help thus far! I'm definitely hooked


----------



## wytewaterwilly (Aug 21, 2011)

Hey BCxp, what have you to say about the boat on river water? I really would like to use it to build some half way decent whitewater skill also.


----------



## BCxp (Jun 3, 2012)

Willy--no river time on a Rogue yet. It should be pretty fine on CLASS I-III. It has a good shape for it for a hybrid

If there was such a thing as a 1-boat quiver, it might have a Rogue in it...just my opinion.

I'd like to see a Unishock front bulkhead option in the Rogue. Like the Fusion has the choice between bulkhead or pegs. My
JK Karma has that bulkhead and it is mighty fine.

You'll be fine in flat, frothy, fishy.


----------



## wytewaterwilly (Aug 21, 2011)

I wish it had a bulkhead like the villian I sat in. I can't stand the foot pegs already, seems like my feet are duckfooted to the extreme... I am gonna use my rogue to learn to river run until I feel experienced enough to step up to a river/creek boat I guess.


----------



## BCxp (Jun 3, 2012)

Excellent plan. And keep the R for lake jaunts.

There may be aftermarket pegs out there that'll fit the tracks on the Rogue. I can't remember if the Rogue track is an innie our outie. some aftermarket pegs are cushioned. But that doesn't really help the splayed feeling. 

There are ways to put in a bulkhead, but I'm not the person to ask about that. A good JK dealer (Confluence in DEN) might have suggestions. And have you considered emailing Ian or Jeff at JK customer support? "info.jacksonkayak.com" Maybe they have ideas. A Rogue with the JK Unishock Bulkead (prolly what you saw on the Villian) would sing very, very sweetly, IMO.


----------



## lmyers (Jun 10, 2008)

wytewaterwilly said:


> Hey BCxp, what have you to say about the boat on river water? I really would like to use it to build some half way decent whitewater skill also.


The Rogue isn't the greatest boat for whitewater. It is intended for II-III with a full camping load. It will work ok for learning the basics, but you should really look at getting a whitewater specific boat for practicing your skills. I have a Pyranha Fusion which is very similar to the Rogue, but I wouldn't suggest people use it to learn in. It is a purpose specific boat that performs best for someone who already has the skills to maneuver it. I wouldn't say get rid of it, but I would tell you to look around and try to find a used playboat. It will serve the purpose of learning to eddy hop, ferry and roll much better than the Rogue.



BCxp said:


> There are ways to put in a bulkhead, but I'm not the person to ask about that. A good JK dealer (Confluence in DEN) might have suggestions. And have you considered emailing Ian or Jeff at JK customer support? "info.jacksonkayak.com" Maybe they have ideas. A Rogue with the JK Unishock Bulkead (prolly what you saw on the Villian) would sing very, very sweetly, IMO.


The Craw is a Jackson rep. If he doesn't respond to this thread again I would private message him.


----------



## Phil U. (Feb 7, 2009)

The pegs allow you to access the bow of the boat for packing. The boat comes with a drybag/float bag that fits forward of the center pillar which is removable. Also, if you get into self supporting out of it the center pillar is perfect for cutting out to hold a 6" pvc poop tube. Check out the LL site for a how to on that. The boat is long enough forward that there is room for more storage in front of the foot pegs and behind the foward bag. After one 4 day self support trip in it, my advice would be to make sure you pack the heavy stuff aft and light stuff forward.

I'm still getting mine dialed in but I can tell you that being able to drop a skeg on long flatwater sections had a bunch of self supporters paddling creekers pretty envious.

I agree that it wouldn't be the best boat to start whitewater in but certainly not impossible.


----------



## hojo (Jun 26, 2008)

Willy, watch out for that Craw guy. He's some kind of noob from what I've read. While his advice was spot on (this time) be wary of his nefarious ways...especially if he's holding a camera while you're paddling some hairy drop.

For local jaunts, just stick the boat right in the back. It works on my jeep with a 9 foot boat so I bet the extra foot won't give you too many problems. I usually put the passenger seat all the way forward so it's a solo adventure. I have a soft top and never got a rack (we transport the boats on a different car).


----------



## wytewaterwilly (Aug 21, 2011)

Sounds like that craw guy is a real bottom feeder, eh??  

So, after reading some of these posts, I'm starting to second guess my decision of buying the rogue in the very beginning. I noticed while I was in the river the other day, that the boat doesn't feel nimble at all and lacks any sort of playfulness. Not only that, I didn't notice my skeg had dropped down at one point or another and I was has having one heck of a time maneuvering up and down stream. Then once it was pointed out while I was practicing some roll technique, I lifted the skeg and was able to control the boat much better. Problem with this is, I don't want to even worry about that at any point, especially once I am running something a little gnarly. 
I realize that I have a thrill seeking nature and sorta knew all along that I would make a transition into whitewater at some point, I had a little more hope that this boat would be a decent river runner. I'm really not looking to do tricks or hang out in the eddy half the day... I wanna get out and do some day trips and have a boat that can handle the flats but charge some nasty stuff once I get in it.. has anyone had experience using this boat on "big water" class III/ class IV?


----------



## abron (Nov 19, 2004)

Willy, honestly it sounds like you need a Zen or a 4fun to really have fun learning whitewater. the 'Crossover' kayaks are great for their purpose.
( BTW, I want a Rogue or Remix XP10 for self support river trips...so if you want to get rid of yours, let me know.... :mrgreen

If you are wanting to lean toward learning to playboat- the JK Fun series is a great boat, and for river running performance the Zen series looks phenomenal. Most of us end up with two (or more) boats- a creeker/riverrunner and a playboat. if you have to pick one first, iwould get a Zen unless you're inclined to jibbing. playboats flip easier, which makes them playful, ...and scary for beginners.

I have a Superstar, and a Superhero. I love both boats. I had a 4fun previously, and I learned immensely from it. they roll reliably, are comfortable, and stable when you need them to be, running rapids, but still 'playful'. 

There are several boat swaps coming up, and the classifieds have quite a few 'all-around' boats for sale. CKS, 4corners, confluence all have swaps. CKS Paddlefest at the end of may will have boat demos and clinics/ professional lessons available. and used boats and gear for trade-in/sale. highly recommended.... I will be up there for that weekend for sure... thats where i wheel and deal my way into a new boat every year or so. (trade-in old boat for store credit + couple hundred cash = new boat.... or just find a used on in the swap for cheap. it's the way to go.as you found out buying new isnt always the best idea, because your preference will develop with experience.)

From my experiences, I am biased to JK, but some other brand river runners that people like would be WS Diesel, LL Remix, Dagger Mamba, Fluid Detox, and Pyranha Ammo...to name a few. River runners will be more crisp and fast then a creek boat, unless youre creeking....
you will find a buyer/trade in for the rogue no problem.... get a whitewater boat for sure unless camping and cruising are your main goals. 
I want a Rogue so i can pack as much beer and keep up with Phil U. and Logan on the chama this weekend...! gonna get ditched with no skeggggggg. lol
Good luck!! SYTOR


----------



## hojo (Jun 26, 2008)

Willy, don't' get too disenfranchised too quickly. I've seen those types of boats paddled down rather difficult whitewater. Your skill will need to develop, and if you want a boat for a good deal of lake/flat water use, that's the way to go. It's true that it won't be the boat to take down the class V gnar but you're a ways away from that!


----------



## BCxp (Jun 3, 2012)

Learn the boat. Up your skills. Hang in then if/when you change, you'll know better what you want.


----------

