# Hell's Canyon Proposed Fees



## Paul7 (Aug 14, 2012)

So if I'm reading it correctly it's either a $5 or $10 fee with proceeds going directly to the river corridor facilities and historical site preservation? If that's the case sounds like a reasonable fee for some work we would benefit from. Hopefully there would be some accountability built in to ensure that is indeed what happens. If that's the case sounds like a good deal for boaters, can't imagine $10 turning anyone around. 



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## dirtbagkayaker (Oct 29, 2008)

The $5/day/person seems to be the new deal. Its been that way for rafters on select rivers for years now. Like the main salmon where they are now trying to get the 5/day/person from people with cabins on the river. I can see a day in the not so distant future when it will be 5/day/person just to step foot on USFS public land.


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## TFVandal (Oct 6, 2015)

Looks like an expansion of government under the proposal, fund more crews, pay volunteers stipends, etc.


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## Anchorless (Aug 3, 2010)

Blame the Republican / right wing dickwads who continually underfund these agencies. 

On the other hand, user fees will be the wave of the future - better get used to it.


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## Learch (Jul 12, 2010)

Anchorless said:


> Blame the Republican / right wing dickwads who continually underfund these agencies.
> 
> On the other hand, user fees will be the wave of the future - better get used to it.


How about we blame the Government Dickwads that waste the money we give them already?


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## yakenman (Jun 7, 2016)

I don't mind paying 5 or 10 dollars a trip for Facilities Maintenance but I do not want to fund Increased Law Enforcement presence, don't think it is needed. I've heard talk of undercover on boats on the Middle Fork asking people for weed and then handing out tickets. We might as well just throw our money in the river if it's funding stupid stuff like that.


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## hand8272 (May 24, 2011)

yakenman said:


> I don't mind paying 5 or 10 dollars a trip for Facilities Maintenance but I do not want to fund Increased Law Enforcement presence, don't think it is needed. I've heard talk of undercover on boats on the Middle Fork asking people for weed and then handing out tickets. We might as well just throw our money in the river if it's funding stupid stuff like that.


Maybe I just think differently but who the hell goes around asking strangers for weed on the river? Sounds like pretty terrible police work. "Excuse me stranger, have you done anything illegal today you would like to confess?"


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## jbomb (Apr 10, 2015)

Ban the jet boats.


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## dirtbagkayaker (Oct 29, 2008)

yakenman said:


> I don't mind paying 5 or 10 dollars a trip for Facilities Maintenance but I do not want to fund Increased Law Enforcement presence, don't think it is needed. *I've heard talk of undercover on boats on the Middle Fork asking people for weed and then handing out tickets*. We might as well just throw our money in the river if it's funding stupid stuff like that.


O, for sure. They even hide in the trees across from the camps and spy on campers. There aint nothing we hate more than pot smokers over here. 

I also heard that the wolves can smell pot 10 miles away. They will sneak into your camp at night and take your pot and oats too!

Let all your friends know that they will get arrested or the wolves will eat their weed if they come to Idaho. Heheheheee.


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## dirtbagkayaker (Oct 29, 2008)

jbomb said:


> Ban the jet boats.


Elaborate. Why ban jet boats  ?


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## jbomb (Apr 10, 2015)

dirtbagkayaker said:


> Elaborate. Why ban jet boats  ?


They are antithetical to everything wild and scenic. Their impact on the river corridor is incredible. When they go by you feel like you're on the shoulder of the interstate. They are incredibly loud, they stink (and their stink lingers long after they've gone by), their wake destroys sandy beaches. They're dangerous to non-powered river traffic, and to themselves. They tell the same really lame jokes on their loudspeaker all the time. 

How "historic use" has been perverted to encompass a 1000 hp boat with 30 people on board doing doughnuts in a rapid is beyond me.


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## goldcamp (Aug 9, 2006)

dirtbagkayaker said:


> O, for sure. They even hide in the trees across from the camps and spy on campers. There aint nothing we hate more than pot smokers over here.
> 
> I also heard that the wolves can smell pot 10 miles away. They will sneak into your camp at night and take your pot and oats too!
> 
> Let all your friends know that they will get arrested or the wolves will eat their weed if they come to Idaho. Heheheheee.


Undercover federal agent came into our camp on the middle fork this year. They parked upstream to not be scene, they checked fishing permits and issued a marijuana ticket to one of the guys in our group.


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## Paul7 (Aug 14, 2012)

goldcamp said:


> Undercover federal agent came into our camp on the middle fork this year. They parked upstream to not be scene, they checked fishing permits and issued a marijuana ticket to one of the guys in our group.


That's such bullshit! Such an inefficient use of resources. Ridiculous that you can't be left alone on what for many is a bucket list trip. That shit just burns me up and I don't even smoke. 

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## restrac2000 (Mar 6, 2008)

With legal marijuana expanding to more states I would expect increased presence, especially from bordering states. For any agency that still buys into the war on drugs it is a completely rational choice to patrol and enforce communities and areas known for use. Hopefully in a few years most states will either be decriminalized or fully legal and people can make decisions for themselves about such relatively harmless pursuits. 

Living in Utah and working in the industries I do/have has educated me that there are few safe harbors for such use and until things change its just not worth the risk.


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## jbomb (Apr 10, 2015)

Even in legal states you have to keep your paranoia up if you're on federal land.


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## yakenman (Jun 7, 2016)

dirtbagkayaker said:


> O, for sure. They even hide in the trees across from the camps and spy on campers. There aint nothing we hate more than pot smokers over here.
> 
> I also heard that the wolves can smell pot 10 miles away. They will sneak into your camp at night and take your pot and oats too!
> 
> Let all your friends know that they will get arrested or the wolves will eat their weed if they come to Idaho. Heheheheee.


Now your just being silly, the wolves don't eat the weed, I trained them to bring it to me!

"I guess it happened at Sunflower. They busted somebody for smoking grass there, then apparently got someone for rinsing a dish in the river and someone else for fishing without a license."

This is from a Facebook conversation on the subject. There's even a pic posted of the undercover. Goldcamp is this one of them that got you? Beware the over friendly middle forkers that run without permits on their boats.


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## tteton (May 16, 2014)

goldcamp said:


> Undercover federal agent came into our camp on the middle fork this year. They parked upstream to not be scene, they checked fishing permits and issued a marijuana ticket to one of the guys in our group.


WHAT! 

Were they in uniform or plain clothes? 

IDAHO is a ssssstrange place. Keep IDAHO weird!


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## tteton (May 16, 2014)

Looks like a D-Bag cop to me! So much for being friendly to other boaters on the river now. First question outta my mouth is gonna be, "Are you a cop?" 
Used to be, "Hey friend! Need a beer??"

Probably trolling these threads too. 

So what happened to the usual river patrol? Those guys are cool and seemed to me doing a fine job of checking licenses, camps for trash and other reg violations. Always had no problems talking to them.


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## Paul7 (Aug 14, 2012)

Probably some cop that couldn't get a permit. 

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## restrac2000 (Mar 6, 2008)

jbomb said:


> Even in legal states you have to keep your paranoia up if you're on federal land.


True, not supposed to be in public spaces if I understand it correctly.


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## yakenman (Jun 7, 2016)

Started a new thread on the subject so people could be adequately warned before leaving on a Middle Fork Trip.


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## goldcamp (Aug 9, 2006)

tteton said:


> WHAT!
> 
> Were they in uniform or plain clothes?
> 
> IDAHO is a ssssstrange place. Keep IDAHO weird!


They were in plain clothes. I didn't really have much interaction with them since I was still sleeping. It was an illegal search though... the guy simple said "what do you have in there?" and pick up his kit and opened it... If it had been me I would have said none of your damn business and told then they have no right to go thru my belongings. There was no probable cause unless he had witnessed something prior to the interaction. But I do understand the intimidation factor... he was armed.


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## dirtbagkayaker (Oct 29, 2008)

goldcamp said:


> Undercover federal agent came into our camp on the middle fork this year. They parked upstream to not be scene, they checked fishing permits and issued a marijuana ticket to one of the guys in our group.


In the state of Idaho that would have been two different code enforcement agencies working together. That is almost unfreaking heard of. Law enforcement has no right to ask for fish and game license. And Fish and Game can't write a pot violation. USFS can enforce either. What County issued the Ticket. Where did said "friend" have to appear in court. What beach did said event occur. Just way too many variable and endorsement agencies to hold that story together. Just smells fishy to me.


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## mattman (Jan 30, 2015)

When you come sneaking into my camp with a weapon, I'm going to consider you some sort of whack job that I should view as a threat, as opposed to a public servant that I should respect, even if you are being payed good tax payer dollars, therefore" Just doing your job". There are lots of quality river rangers out there, we don't need to pay for a bunch of clowns sneaking around in the bushes.


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## Paul7 (Aug 14, 2012)

dirtbagkayaker said:


> In the state of Idaho that would have been two different code enforcement agencies working together. That is almost unfreaking heard of. Law enforcement has no right to ask for fish and game license. And Fish and Game can't write a pot violation. USFS can enforce either. What County issued the Ticket. Where did said "friend" have to appear in court. What beach did said event occur. Just way too many variable and endorsement agencies to hold that story together. Just smells fishy to me.


In Idaho conservation officers with the fish and game are law enforcement officers who can enforce any law. 

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## Wadeinthewater (Mar 22, 2009)

Paul7 said:


> In Idaho conservation officers with the fish and game are law enforcement officers who can enforce any law.


Same in Oregon. Game cops are Oregon State Police and can write citations for game violations, drugs or traffic infractions.


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## case_seth (Nov 21, 2008)

dirtbagkayaker said:


> In the state of Idaho that would have been two different code enforcement agencies working together. That is almost unfreaking heard of. Law enforcement has no right to ask for fish and game license. And Fish and Game can't write a pot violation. USFS can enforce either. What County issued the Ticket. Where did said "friend" have to appear in court. What beach did said event occur. Just way too many variable and endorsement agencies to hold that story together. Just smells fishy to me.


I had a buddy in Colorado get a ticket for marijuana on federal land, it was just a $50 ticket, no court or anything else.


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## tteton (May 16, 2014)

mattman said:


> When you come sneaking into my camp with a weapon, I'm going to consider you some sort of whack job that I should view as a threat, as opposed to a public servant that I should respect, even if you are being payed good tax payer dollars, therefore" Just doing your job". There are lots of quality river rangers out there, we don't need to pay for a bunch of clowns sneaking around in the bushes.


I was going to also mention that fact. I carry a gun and keep it handy on the river. If some plain clothed, armed, D-bag walked out of the bushes like that at me I would also consider it a threat. No self respecting LEO should be acting like this. 
If the put in search stories are true that's just plain ole violation of our Bill of Rights. I'll never consent to a cop to snoop around my things to satisfy his ego. Doesn't matter if there's nothing in my bags. 
I am all for game rangers checking fish licenses and river patrol keeping us educated and appreciate their efforts handling the camps for fire and trash violations. The Middle Fork is a beautiful place because of hard working rangers who have done an excellent job thus far. I pay my permit fees, invasive sticker fees without reservation because it helps keep the place awesome. This shit that were discussing now is just stupid. 

+1 on some DBag cop who couldn't get a permit.


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## caverdan (Aug 27, 2004)

They should be hiding at the put in's and take out's........ to catch the thieves breaking into cars.


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## tteton (May 16, 2014)

caverdan said:


> They should be hiding at the put in's and take out's........ to catch the thieves breaking into cars.


AMEN


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## dirtbagkayaker (Oct 29, 2008)

Paul7 said:


> In Idaho conservation officers with the fish and game are law enforcement officers who can enforce any law.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900V using Mountain Buzz mobile app


Kinda true. But Fish and Game has limited jurisdiction. Fish and Game COs are required by Idaho state law to be wearing uniform if issuing a ticket. 


https://legislature.idaho.gov/idstat/Title36/T36CH13SECT36-1301PrinterFriendly.htm


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## dirtbagkayaker (Oct 29, 2008)

case_seth said:


> I had a buddy in Colorado get a ticket for marijuana on federal land, it was just a $50 ticket, no court or anything else.


In the state of Idaho the average position of a small amount pot first time is around $200 fine, a couple drug classes, and 10 hours volunteer time. Your "friend" got very very very all most tooo lucky. Just saying. :mrgreen:


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## case_seth (Nov 21, 2008)

dirtbagkayaker said:


> In the state of Idaho the average position of a small amount pot first time is around $200 fine, a couple drug classes, and 10 hours volunteer time. Your "friend" got very very very all most tooo lucky. Just saying. :mrgreen:


The ticket was issued by a federal officer on federal land in the Colorado National Monument. I think that's why there wasn't any associated county court proceedings. He definatly got lucky in that he wasn't in Idaho. I definitely agree that Idaho is a place to be avoided. Take their permits float their rivers and get the hell out. Leave those potato pickers to bicker among themselves


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## Aroberts (Apr 20, 2009)

case_seth said:


> The ticket was issued by a federal officer on federal land in the Colorado National Monument. I think that's why there wasn't any associated county court proceedings. He definatly got lucky in that he wasn't in Idaho. I definitely agree that Idaho is a place to be avoided. Take their permits float their rivers and get the hell out. Leave those potato pickers to bicker among themselves


100% agree with you!


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