# Telemark skiers...



## bobbuilds (May 12, 2007)

I was hoping some of you would elaborate on how it's done. the turn, weight placement, how to ski etc. I have noticed some times it looks like alpine with the heel down, but am wondering if that is right? Are there variations? are there times where it will be necessary to lean on the heel? 

(All)
Derk, if your reading this please drop some knowledge on me, maybe we can get after it, I don't have much but I am learning.

thanks
bob


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## Snowhere (Feb 21, 2008)

The heel is down if you are being lazy!

In a nutshell, your downhill ski has the weight on it and stabilizes you. Your uphill foot actually turns you. Think pressure big toe on downhill ski and little toe on uphill ski. It is that simple and your normal ski reflexes are the same as alpine. 

Some stand tall, but I am of the deep knee bend variety. easier to get face shots when you are lower!


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## Jay H (May 20, 2005)

best tip I was given was to imagine driving your pinky toe of your back foot into the snow, pretty much what snowhere said...

and when i start getting squirrely, it's usually because i'm not putting enough weight on my back foot

telemarktips.com has some pretty good instuctional vids and lots of chatter on the forums


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## peak (Apr 7, 2006)

weight should be even between front and back ski...like Jay, it all falls apart when I depend on only the front/downhill ski, which is a natural tendency. Helps me to think about driving my downhill/front heel down...theres also a cartoon/graffic book out there full of good drills and things to think about...


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## Highside (Jul 11, 2008)

Try getting the book "Allen and Mikes Really Cool Telemark Tips." Its a great book with a little humor. You could probably get it for under $10, well worth it.


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## freexbiker (Jul 18, 2005)

Do it and never go back!
The reason I started was that I got bored snowboarding the little dink of a area we have up here. Tele looked to be a challenge and it was.
Its tough to get started, alot of the movements feel counter-intuitive sometimes. But once you hit powder or even breakable crust it all seems worth it. The joyous feeling of floating feels so natural. Plus like snowhere said its much easier to get face shots. I ski a mainly low to medium stance so when you hit a good patch of snow it just sprays around you.
And if you can't make tele turns you can always make p-turns when you get tired.
Luke
Oh and don't get stuck in the NTN hype if you are learning. Too pricey.
Long Live The Duckbill!
Depending on your dimensions I might have a pair of skis that are great learners.
PM if interested...


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## COUNT (Jul 5, 2005)

I greatly appreciate the praise, but I'm no pro. I just taught myself when I was bored, so I'm sure my form is terrible, but I have fun (<-- Best tip anyone can give you; keep it real, no matter what you're doing).

For me, the hardest part transitioning from downhill was dropping the uphill leg back (beyond just bending the knee). When you're standing upright and you've got your weight evenly balanced on both feet, it's hard to drop the leg back when it's still providing a significant amount of support. For this reason, you've got to figure out how to unweight the leg that will be uphill when you are transitioning from one turn to the next. So basically, it goes something like this:

1. As you're switching, unweight leg as it's moving from downhill to uphill ski.

2. Drop leg back and knee down.

3. Smoothly replace this weight on the ski so you are roughly evenly balanced (50-60% downhill ski, 40-50% uphill ski).

All this happens between the transition and before the apex of the turn. The tip that most helped me with this was thinking about tucking the uphill leg behind the downhill leg and squeezing your thighs together. But like I said I'm pretty much self-taught other than 1 or 2 lessons, so take with a grain of salt. I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm way off base or if that style is no longer "cool." Peace.

D


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## chasingh2o (Dec 16, 2007)

like a wise man named happy gilmore once said its all in the hips. I think this is part of the reason kayakers take to it so well, every transition between turns is kind of like switching from left brace to right brace and vice versa. Also one thing that really helped me was grabing a piece of bamboo and using that instead of poles, great for the balance.


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## ZGjethro (Apr 10, 2008)

I've got a couple of pointers. Try to keep your torso upright, and don't look at your skis or feet (don't know why, many do). Like alpine, shoulders downhill, but try to touch inside hand to outside knee. Not literally, but really twist the hips. And lastly, make sure your outside ski is ahead of where you would weight it alpine skiing. This will give you proper weight distribution (60/40 approx.)) front to back. If you are skiing with your outside foot right under you, you are doing the fake-a-mark turn which is an alpine weighted turn with a lifted rear heel (super gay). If you face plant a lot this is probably the reason. The tele position is fairly stable front to back. Pole plants are the same as alpine with huge style penalties for double pole plants. For the ultimate gaper tele look, wear a camel back outside your jacket.


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## sofia (Mar 17, 2008)

i've been making tele turns for 7 or 8 years now and think i have a pretty good understanding of how it's done and i agree with parts of what everybody has had to say. to simplify...
1- 50 / 50 weight distribution on both skis.
2- your driving with that front ski out in front of you...so yes...press hard with your big toe! back foot little toe??? i find it hard to concentrate on two things at once. 
3- pole plants is where i see most beginners get confused. i like what somebody said about pole plants are like a kayak brace. make that a low brace where your hand doesn't come back any further than your hip! if the timing seems awkward to you...go pole less or with the bamboo idea.
4- be bouncy and don't try to hold onto a turn for too long. telemarking is hard work....if you are stiff and making big sustained turns you will get tired and your form will suffer. 
5- low dip vs. upright is a personal preference. i find that i will lower my center of gravity in bad snow conditions and will stand much more upright when the snow is good. 
6- have fun and make lots of face plants! if your falling back or to the side your not trying hard enough!

it's all about the face shots!


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## lmyers (Jun 10, 2008)

sofia said:


> 6- have fun and make lots of face plants! if your falling back or to the side your not trying hard enough!


That's good to hear - I faceplanted about a dozen times yesterday at Monarch, good times.
It seems to me that powder makes it a lot easier to make good tele turns, and what I want to know is - what is the secret to making those same sweet, deep knee tele turns in the icy hard-pack double black moguls (It seems like I can do it everywhere else). Granted, I have only been working on it for about a month, but I keep reverting back to my alpine turns, and I don't have $175 to spend on a 1.5 hr private lesson. Any help?


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## bobbuilds (May 12, 2007)

*fell on my face a little more today....*

Thought I had it, I was humbled today....I will get back to you.


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## Snowhere (Feb 21, 2008)

lmyers said:


> That's good to hear - I faceplanted about a dozen times yesterday at Monarch, good times.
> It seems to me that powder makes it a lot easier to make good tele turns, and what I want to know is - what is the secret to making those same sweet, deep knee tele turns in the icy hard-pack double black moguls (It seems like I can do it everywhere else). Granted, I have only been working on it for about a month, but I keep reverting back to my alpine turns, and I don't have $175 to spend on a 1.5 hr private lesson. Any help?


Practice, grasshopper, practice....


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## freexbiker (Jul 18, 2005)

On ice I've learned that you have to edge waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more than you think you do. Lean your upper body uphill and make that C with your body. Crank those edges down and be prepared to slide out.
Skiing where I have learned as like learning on the Ice Coast so I've gotten much better at skiing on ice than in powder.


The secret is having fun and freeing the mind because you freed the heel.
Keep at it. It took me half a season to teach myself to make turns that I was proud of. I never skied the run below the lift because I didn't want anybody to see how crappy My turns were. Now I lap that run because its fun to show off your sweet turns.


Start trying some monomarks where you carve down the hill in one static position in one turn. Make several turns on one leg going both directions then switch to the other leg and carve a couple of turns. Start on a green or easy blue then just keep working up. Lately I've been working on mono marking through moguls.(Thigh Burners)


Keep the head up and Laugh a lot
Luke

Oh and I don't know if it has been said but Get Mike and Allens Cool tele Tips. Great book with some great drills to work on.
Ok I'm done adding stuff on....


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## freexbiker (Jul 18, 2005)

freexbiker said:


> On ice I've learned that you have to edge waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more than you think you do. Lean your upper body uphill and make that C with your body. Crank those edges down and be prepared to slide out.
> 
> 
> > Woops Lean DOWN hill....It helps to keep those edges grippy


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## jbolson (Apr 6, 2005)

For me, the pole plant technique is key, especially in bumps. Unlike alpine skiing where a simple wrist hinge works well, when I tele I really have to be deliberate to quickly pull my pole plant hand down and in. Otherwise, my pole stays on the bump I have just skied around pulling up my hand, pulling my shoulder into the hill and really causing problems.


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## freexbiker (Jul 18, 2005)

Bob Pm returned. If I may ask what have you been skiing?


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## lmyers (Jun 10, 2008)

Thanks guys, everyday I seem to get a little better (soft snow helps). I'll just keep on practicing until I can rip like I do with alpines. Oh yeah!


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## Jay H (May 20, 2005)

lmyers:



lmyers said:


> what is the secret to making those same sweet, deep knee tele turns in the icy hard-pack double black moguls


Be super aggressive--this is not a lazy walk-in-the-park. Commit fully and lean forward and...TRUST YOUR BACK SKI/LEG! I'm just getting to where I can hop-tele turn thru Palavacini bumps, but if I let up in the slightest, I'll miss that next turn...and after a series of even 4 or 5 turns I gotta rest--I'm sure I'm not the most efficient, so I'm probably paying a penalty for that, though


Sofia:



sofia said:


> back foot little toe??? i find it hard to concentrate on two things at once.


 
well, the tele front leg technique is somewhat different than alpine, but it's not unfamiliar to anyone who's alpined--some may quible with that statement, but it's not--yeah, your knee is bent, but your knee bends on alpines too...anyway, the back ski/leg technique is what radically differentiates tele from alpine--so I focus more tips for the back leg technique for myself and for anyone asking advice--but this is not to say that the front ski big toe tip isn't a good one...truth is you've got to bring it all together--but as Allen and Mike say--"don't think about all these tips at once"


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## sofia (Mar 17, 2008)

yes...i agree with those two guys you mention...whoever they are. just don't think about it too much. 

if your 50/50 on your skis initiating the turn with your front ski / big toe your rear ski should follow around just fine. 

actually...when i'm making really good turns sometimes it feels like my taint is always directly between my front and back ski...bobbing up and down between them. 

some have been talking about pole "plants". don't do it...especially in the bumps. you'll jack up your shoulder for kayak season! i mean...they're out there...you reach out and touch snow with it...but as soon as you do that you should be initiating your next turn with your other pole. i think it is the same as alpine technique. for balance more than anything.


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## ZGjethro (Apr 10, 2008)

I'm not sure the tip for "front ski big toe" is that good. Properly done, the front (outside ski) foot will be ahead of your center of gravity in a fore/aft sense. More pressure will be exerted on the heel of the front foot. Do a lunge and you can feel what I mean. My preference is not to ski deep lunge though. The big toe tip is applicable to what edge to use, but that should be a no brainer. I would also disagree with leaning forward. The Tele turn is stable since one leg is forward to brace off of and one is behind. Kind of like the legs of a triangle. Even in alpine skiing, with the stiff boots and locked heal you don't lean forward. Hands/shoulders face forward, but mass is over foot. Your mass should be centered 50/50 to 60/40 with an upright torso in tele. Leaning any way will lead to falling that way, and that means faceplants while telemarking. All lateral angulation should be from the hips down. Try to have a quiet upper body without large arm balancing motions or double pole plants, unless you ski in knickers and edgeless skis. As an added note, often dissimilar advice can be different peoples perceptions of how to do a sport and we can be trying to explain the same sensation. This is my take on it


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## freexbiker (Jul 18, 2005)

I hate to create an argument but you really should be putting pressure on the front boot too. So actually you will be pressuring the big toe! When you are putting pressure on the tongue of the front boot it allows you to initiate turns much better.If you are just using your front foot as a brace I would like to see you ski on anything with variable terrain or bad snow.
To illustrate what I am saying is that no matter if you ski a low or high stance your back foot should always be under your ass and your front foot should be directly under your front knee.


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## Jay H (May 20, 2005)

'sall good, 'sall good ...woohoo, man I'm gettin' stoked after all this yakkin' to get up there tomorrow and get after it.

I'll be at breck tomorrow--yeah, I know, it'll be a shit show, but it's a long story--slight chance I may possibly go to A-Basin, or finally check out the back bowls at crapstone, but most likely breck. I would love to make some tele turns with other tele-ers--if anybody's gonna be up and is interested, PM me and we'll set it up! --or a future weekend if not this weekend...and I will most likely be at A-Basin on Monday

remember, the most important thing is to have fun...
if you're not smiling: YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG!! :-D

Jay


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## ZGjethro (Apr 10, 2008)

freexbiker, I think we are roughly saying the same thing, as was Sophia when she said she felt centered between both skis in a more graphic description. My comments were more directed to the person a few posts above my last posting who advocated leaning forward. The analogy of the triangle brace is valid, just don't take it so literally. Obviously the human foot/ankle/knee is a little more fluid and adaptable than a straight brace. My point was more that the tele stance is more stable than an alpine stance (no bindings). If you do not agree, then get in a tele stance in your living room and have someone give you a push forward or back. Pretty stable. Try it again with your feet together and you can easily be pushed off balance. The alpine style relies on a stiff boot, locked heel and the lever of the ski to resist fore/aft movement. I agree that the front foot should be under the knee, but with tele, the heel should be more under the knee and alpine places the toe more under the knee. If one's toe is under the knee in tele, chances are their weight is to far forward and they will have to extend their rear leg backwards to resist going forward. this will result in too lightly of weighted rear foot and instability.


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## bobbuilds (May 12, 2007)

ZG, I am totaly learning what you are talking about, and I feel the stability in the stance(tele) question, when I am in the flats, and on the catwalk I try to pose that stance, foot to foot(changeing leads) and loose ballance side to side, should I hold a wider stance or should my skis be close together?(80's alpine) 


second, right now I have my lead leg bent to about 120(degrees) and a medium bend in the trailing foot about a boot width back and apart, I am feeling 60/40 it is feeling alpine-ish though. It is not that easy right? It only works with short turns predominantly down hill, that same stance on a green run with a wide turn is tossing me back on my heels and I am wailing my arms to catch up. I will post video tomorrow.


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## Jay H (May 20, 2005)

ZGjethro said:


> My comments were more directed to the person a few posts above my last posting who advocated leaning forward.


as the person to whom these comments were directed I feel I must clarify--

what I actually said to a question about skiing bumps was:



Jay H said:


> Be super aggressive...


and



Jay H said:


> Commit fully and lean forward and...TRUST YOUR BACK SKI/LEG!


All I can say is when I'm slamming bumps and I don't "lean forward", then I'm in the back seat and going for a ride I don't nec. want to take--obviously "lean forward" on tele's has a different meaning than on alpines--and that's not what I meant--I capitalized "TRUST YOUR BACK SKI/LEG" because I know that while I have to commit and "lean forward" to aggressively ski bumps, I also must weight the back leg in order to have any semblance of stability and control--and that I think is the essence of tele skiing--relying on and trusting your back leg.

it's obviously hard to convey in words, but I think everybody's sayin' more or less the same thing--so just take what speaks to you, and what makes sense to you, and work on it--and have a blast!


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## ZGjethro (Apr 10, 2008)

Jay H, well taken and put. There must be a thousand ways to teach skiing, and I don't teach it. Some things are easier to do than explain.


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## freexbiker (Jul 18, 2005)

Bob Like ZG and I were talking about you want to keep your front foot below your knee. Don't get too stretched out. Stay compacted. Hopefully that will help with the stability issue too. Depending on what kind of terrain I ski is how I vary the width of my skis. Groomers I go into a relly deep close together stance where you get as much edge control as possible. Powder I go a lot wider shoulder width with a higher stance unless I want to get real deep with faceshots. Variable conditions I ski a shoulder width stance also.

Because I keep saying lean forward I'll explain. On your front foot in the initiation lean into the the tongue of the boot. Not enough to flex the bellows but just enough to give you some power to the front.
Just remember Keep compact. Don't get the front leg out too far infront of you or youll lose control and balance.


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## SSOWDEN (Apr 29, 2004)

when i was learning to roll in my kayak I suffered from a serious affliction technically called analysis paralysis.
y'all need to kiss. A ski turn is a ski turn, all about weigth transfer. The tele turn allows you to get way into the turn and teaches you to keep better balance to avoid going over the handlebars. Other than that and keeping you upper body still use the technique that works best for you on the terrain you are on whether it is wanye wong or the herminator(in really deep voice someone say "Hermann Meier") style.
Generally I find myself initiating tele turns with the downhill ski and initiating alpine turns with the uphill ski, that is just me.


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## bobbuilds (May 12, 2007)

Got back after it today, really feeling good now. Not as hard as I thought it would be but it does beat your legs down a ton. Thanks for all the help, I appreciate it.

See you on the mountian.

bob


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## bobbuilds (May 12, 2007)

check this out. it was filmed in the 90's but looks oldschool.... YouTube - Telemarkskiing in Norway...vintage style !


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## SSOWDEN (Apr 29, 2004)

That is tooooooo cooooool.
What is the one stick called?


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## freexbiker (Jul 18, 2005)

Its called a Lurk. Its what the old Norwegians used before we cut em up into two pieces.


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## SSOWDEN (Apr 29, 2004)

Those wyomingings are a wealth of knowledge, need to think of a way to remember the Lurk. No yahoonificating going on up north.


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## freexbiker (Jul 18, 2005)

Damn straight.


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## Geezer (Oct 14, 2003)

In the words of DanoCruz... get low and you will flow. It's works.


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## Pinner (Jan 29, 2004)

In the words of Pinner, *Telemarking is stupid*.


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## buck123 (Mar 20, 2007)

SSOWDEN said:


> That is tooooooo cooooool.
> What is the one stick called?


Here's the modern equivalent:
The Telestick

I orded one at the beginning of this season and most likely won't go back to using poles at the resort (well, maybe at least until the novelty wears off). I recommend it for any kayaker-telemarker since it is a similar feel as your paddle. But I'm not quite sold on the lurk for backcountry even though it breaks down (still a bit heavy and clumsy for poling but convenient for the lift) .

Oh, and it's a great conversation piece. When asked impolitely, I tend to explain that it is a medical device prescribed by my proctologist and that usually shuts 'em up.


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## bobbuilds (May 12, 2007)

nice.


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