# Frontier Play Update After Last Season



## shappattack (Jul 17, 2008)

We have one of the 36x15x18 boxes, and my opinion has not changed. They work, but have a few issues.

while the actual box works, I hate, and I mean hate - the latches on that model which were too over sized with a tab that sticks out for a lock that catches and bends on everthing and the latches are not adjustable for tension and are too loose. You can't easily replace the latches because they are so oversized compared to other standard latchs (the rivet/screw whole patterns don't match) The wires to catch the lid when open are too close to the edge of the box and always seem to get between the lid and box edge when closing. All of the screws holding for the lid and hinges and latches were all loose when the box arrived and all needed tightening. 

The gasket around the bottom lid sill sucked (crappy cheep sticky thin foam) and needed replacing with a standard quality rubber gasket after 1 weeklong trip.

One small point - the Frontier play sticker is huge and kind of obnoxious looking to me. 

This box was baught new from frontier play about 2.5 years ago (maybe they have better latches, gaskets, lid wires, and have better QA/QC before shipping)

For roughly 30% more cost, I got a super box from Dave at madcatr with a superior handle design, lid, gasket, and latches, custom fit to my boat/frame dimensions maximizing space. Made in America by a fellow boater. This was worth it to me.

In retrospect, I wish I would haved drank a few less beers and saved a little mor money then baught a better box to begin with.
Shapp


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## riverdoghenry (Nov 18, 2008)

*Custom Box For $260??*



shappattack said:


> For roughly 30% more cost, I got a super box from Dave at madcatr with a superior handle design, lid, gasket, and latches, custom fit to my boat/frame dimensions maximizing space. Made in America by a fellow boater. This was worth it to me.


Shappattack,

Madcatr made you a custom box for about $260? Amazing price!


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## Shiryas (Jun 19, 2007)

I have a Frontier Play kitchen box that is on the start of its third season and just purchased two Captains box's for the footwell of the cataraft I am building up. I have been happy with the products especially at the price but would have to agree with the posts above.

The logo is massive and annoying. I peeled it off all three of my box's and removed the remaining adhesive with a little Goo Gone.

The 'hasp' section of the latch is a PITA. I snipped these off the three box's and filed the sharp edges down.

I have not had any latch tension issues yet but did have one latch that was very resistant to turning smoothly and was 'exploding' for lack of a better term. I was worried a bit since I had purchased the captains box's on ebay. With one email I received a reply and was sent one replacement latch plus a spare (2 latch's) plus a follow up phone call. With the phillips screw bolts and nylocks it was easy to put the new one on. 

The quality is good for the price. The customer service is phenominal for the price. I have not had any water ingress through Cataract at 52k in a 14' Avon, though miraculosly there was no inversion with submersion test either. If I need another drybox I would buy it from them.

Chris


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## caverdan (Aug 27, 2004)

I too cut off the hasp portion of the latch. I still need to replace the outer seal as it it a POS and was installed crooked. But for the price I think it's the best box out there. My old one filled with water in Skull last year.....this one looks more bomber by design.....but we'll have to wait and see what this year brings. Is there a metal dry box out there that is totally waterproof in an inverted situation? My experience is they all leak a little. This design looks like it will leak less than others I've seen and used.


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## riverdoghenry (Nov 18, 2008)

*Bike Inner Tube*



caverdan said:


> Is there a metal dry box out there that is totally waterproof in an inverted situation? My experience is they all leak a little.


My old Cambridge boxes had a inner lip and I thought about stretching a partially inflated smaller inner tube from a bike around the outer rim of the inside lip.


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## shappattack (Jul 17, 2008)

Roughly 30% in reality = 300 (actually 50% more), what can I say, sat in the back of math class 

Howver, I was nearly 1/2 right? 199 is about 33% less than 300


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## JennMiko (Dec 30, 2007)

Early last year I purchased a frontier play to save some dough. I have had the same problems regarding the big dumb latches that bend. Also 1 latches has to much tension making it hard to close. It has been water tight but it hasn't been upside down yet. Another problem is one of the cables that keep the to from flapping down has broken. I have used the box plenty but really didn't expect this many problems.

If I were in the market knowing what I know now I would spend more money and get a higher end box.

That being said . . . if saving a few hundered here and there gets you on the water (as it did me) it is worth it.

To the people who have sanded off the hasp . . . how do you open/close the box now?
-- jlm


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## Shiryas (Jun 19, 2007)

JennMiko,

When I say 'hasp' I mean the tab that sticks out perpindicular to the box that has a hole in it for placing a padlock to secure the box. The turnbuckle/latch mechanism is not really affected by the hasp removal. Bear in mind these are my applied terms for the parts of the latch.

Chris


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## caverdan (Aug 27, 2004)

Shiryas said:


> JennMiko,
> 
> When I say 'hasp' I mean the tab that sticks out perpindicular to the box that has a hole in it for placing a padlock to secure the box. The turnbuckle/latch mechanism is not really affected by the hasp removal. Bear in mind these are my applied terms for the parts of the latch.
> 
> Chris


I am also referring to the hole made for the lock as Chris discribes. I got lucky I guess...... My latches work like a champ.


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## riverdoghenry (Nov 18, 2008)

*18"*

Again, I'm wondering what your thoughts are about the boxes being 18" tall? These are the only typical size boxes (L & W) on the market taller than 16". I'm use to 15.5"/16" tall boxes.


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## Shiryas (Jun 19, 2007)

Riverdoghenry,

I really like to have everything as low as possible in my raft and I am building up my cat the same way within the confines of performance. This especially applies to my seat at the oars.

That being said and in complete contradiction I am actually shimming up the kitchen box on the cat so that the top of the kitchen box is the same height as the front cooler, 21.5". It just makes sense as far as a flat deck area for lounging and those oddball times that I would sleep on the boat.

As for the second cooler/captain seat I am really thinking about putting in a 135qt or so cooler instead of the 150qt the bay is designed for since most coolers in that size are 18" instead of 21"+. Still playing with it on Sketchpad.

Chris


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## riverdoghenry (Nov 18, 2008)

*Thanks!*

Thanks for your updates. I spoke with the company and I was told that they were making some changes:


Going to start using smaller latches.
Going to have welded hangers.
Over all, my impression is that these are not Rolex of boxes, but for $199 not junk either. A decent box for the money. They also seem to be improving their boxes a little every season.

For a $199, I can use industrial lock-tight on the screws, replace seals, and replace a broken cable for very little cost and effort. 

Frankly, many of the complaints here, I've encountered over the years in expensive boxes as well. I've seen bad seals and cracked boxes.

The wife is a lot more understanding paying $400 for a couple boxes verses $800 -$1000 for customs. To her these are just over sized shoe boxes.


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## shappattack (Jul 17, 2008)

Good analysis of the issue, however custom boxes from Madcatr (as good as any available) will run you about $650 for 2, well under the 800-1000. Not saying that $250 is not significant though. Good luck.
Shapp


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## HPMG (Nov 2, 2008)

If the Cambridge, Recretek, DRE, MadCatr etc. come with tabs welded on them, then that needs to be included in the pricing comparison, if youre using something other than straps to mount the boxes, you will need to buy a NRS type mount, or have someone weld tabs onto the Frontier boxes. $200 + $70 for the NRS Dry Box Mounts(or welding) brings you almost to the price Shapp paid for his, made to his specs. Something to think about at least. 

I bought a pair of the Frontier small captains boxes, and aside from the same complaints as above (gaskets not lined up, cutting off hasp on latch), I am happy with them. The 18" height is probably the only thing that would keep me from buying a full size box from them. That additional 2+ inches plus my seat on the top will be a little too much.


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## riverdoghenry (Nov 18, 2008)

*$820*



shappattack said:


> Good analysis of the issue, however custom boxes from Madcatr (as good as any available) will run you about $650 for 2, well under the 800-1000. Not saying that $250 is not significant though. Good luck.
> Shapp


Shapp,

I called Madcatr because for $325 it would be worth getting a custom for that price. I was quoted $380 to have a 5.14 cu in box made, plus $30 for hanging tabs. $410 puts Madcatr prices right in line with other customs prices. This is a $422 difference between Madcatr and Frontier for two boxes. I can buy a lot of lock-tight, latches, and seals for $422!

I may very likely buy a custom, because that's what I've always had. I'm just taking a good look a Frontier, because it's simply just a metal box no matter which one you go with at the end of the day. I've not seen any complaints on the actual boxes, welds, or cracking. Latches, seals, and wire-catch can easly be switched out if the box alone is solid. If the box is solid, I can easily convince myself to save $400 for a couple cheap and easy changes.

Thanks!


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## scooby450 (Dec 4, 2008)

I like mine so far but it is new. The latches were tough to close but some lubrication took care of that. The gasket looks right and the way I boat it won't be long until I find out if it leaks!


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## shappattack (Jul 17, 2008)

I got mine made this winter from Dave for $320 total for a 4.2 cubic foot box. Materials aren't that much more, maybe even less now. Bummer for you. 
Shapp


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## shappattack (Jul 17, 2008)

I hope my last message doens't sound flip, I really mean that is a bummer they went up that much in 2 months, hard times maybe means try to charge more? doesn't make sense to me.


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## Osprey (May 26, 2006)

another vote for it here. I've got their largest box and no complaints. Like someone said, the key is the box is solid. the core construction is just as good as anybody else's. Yeah, I too replaced a few bolts and played with the wires a bit to get the box to open and close how I liked but $5 at the hardware store and a few minutes are certainly worth not spending $100+ on the same thing to me. Zero problems with the latches here. I think on ebay he has all the sizes for $199 or best offer so I bet you could get another few bucks off that. I think I got mine for $180 but that was quite awhile back. 

As for the height, it's fine for me but I don't try to use a seat on top of it, just ethafoam. really just depends on your boat, frame, oarlock setup if in fact you are planning on the rower sitting on it. fits my boat great so even if I had one custom made it probably would have been the same size. If I was trying to put my low or highback seats on top of it then it would be too tall. Part of that though is how a seat changes the angle of your thighs, on a box its easier to sit on the edge and brace. I'm using the NRS dry box mounts and NRS tall oar locks fwiw.


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## riverdoghenry (Nov 18, 2008)

*Booked Out*



shappattack said:


> I hope my last message doesn't sound flip, I really mean that is a bummer they went up that much in 2 months, hard times maybe means try to charge more? doesn't make sense to me.


He said he was booked out till mid summer. I've also charged my customers more when I have had more work coming in than I can handle. Economics 101! Good to hear that someone is doing well in this economy.

Now I know this guy who would like to take a good chunk of his success and spread it around!


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## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

shappattack said:


> I got mine made this winter from Dave for $320 total for a 4.2 cubic foot box. Materials aren't that much more, maybe even less now. Bummer for you.
> Shapp


I don't know how Dave makes any money at that, I'm getting a frame from him for something like $850 (cat), plus he is loaning me one so I can run my new tubes until he can make mine. Super good man!


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## JennMiko (Dec 30, 2007)

RDH,
My box (heehee) is 18" high, 19" with the ethafoam and I am suspending it from frame with cam straps and sit directly on the box. I do not use any seat and am 5"4". I have a ghetto rigged lo back tractor seat but feel to high in it with the tall drybox. But if your towers are taller (or yourself) the height of a 19" may be fine. Your logic on cost is valid, if I were you I would set up my set up then mimic 4" - 5" below your seat (phone books?) and see if rowing will feel comfortable from that height.
-- jlm


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## dlskayak (Mar 26, 2008)

We went with the 18" height on the boxes because most coolers are 18" or higher. There are various activities in which the FrontierPlay dry box is used so the latches are larger and have the tab on the latch for locking. Rafters like the lower profile latch so we recommend bending the lock tab outward from the latch with pliers.

How durable is the FrontierPlay dry box? It's worth checking out.
YouTube - FrontierPlay dry box1 wmv 0001


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## restrac2000 (Mar 6, 2008)

You guys did beat the crap out of that box, but the submersion test was a little weak to say the least. Put a 200 lb guy on it in the shallows (with it upside down) for at least 15-20 minutes. Haven't flipped a boat now I am skeptical that what you did in the waterproof test doesn't mean jack squat. Fun video though.


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## shappattack (Jul 17, 2008)

As an owner of one, the latches SUCK! They suck so bad cause they are huge and the lock tab snags on everthing, even bent over. And the tension is not adjustable as on my other more expensive box, The frontier play latches are now too loose 2 years out from purchase for a good tight seal. I would replace them, but it would be a major PITA cause the hole pattern is so big.


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## Chip (Apr 7, 2007)

Pretty lame testing program: dropping it in the dirt? Dragging it behind an ATV? Horsing it around in the shallows? 

Obviously it's aluminum, i.e. fairly rigid and rugged. The tests in your low-budget infomercial don't show much that matters. 

Haven't you ever heard of pressure differential? Flexing? That's what causes a drybox to leak. 

If you want to get real, try this. Tether it and hit with a high pressure hose, aimed up under the rim of the lid. Load it with some lead and drop it to about 30-40 feet and leave it for a day. With a bit less ballast, secure it in the outfall of a big culvert (lots of irrigation ditches in Idaho) and let it bonk and spin for a while. 

Then, measure the volume of water that gets in. And report. 

And, _please_, get a new, discreet logo. 

Sorta cranky tonight, but I wish you well.


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## shappattack (Jul 17, 2008)

p.s. the lower lip gasket (99 cent sticky back 1/8 inch foam) needed replacement after the first trip (5 days usage sitting on for rowing), what a POS that was.


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## Randaddy (Jun 8, 2007)

I used a $199 Frontier Play dry box on a 2 month river trip, which included a flip in the Grand Canyon. No problems at all.


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## shappattack (Jul 17, 2008)

In all honesty, besides the POS latches and lower gasket, the construction overall is very good.
I can tell you though, that given the current loose state of the closed latches on our box, it would definitely not be water proof in a flip. So basically we have a $199 bear box, not a dry box.


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