# Upper Gauley/Frog Rock link



## Phil U. (Feb 7, 2009)

Hey, so there's been a lot of talk about the Gauley here in recent days and also huge threads about Frog Rock on the Ark. There's a benign looking, but very dangerous, spot on the Upper Gauley in Initiation Rapid that has claimed lives and as a result a coalition of organizations installed a sign at the Upper G. put in. 

Here is a link to a story, with pics, about a dramatic rescue at the danger spot in Initiation with a picture of the sign. I think something like this would be useful at the Railroad Bridge put in, the normal put in for the section with Frog Rock. I'm also in favor of a sign river right and left above Frog Rock Rapid.

THINK RAIN: Initiation

Thoughts?

P.


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## hawkiirock (Jun 19, 2010)

scary stuff. Thanks for posting


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## TinTexas (Mar 29, 2010)

A good rule of thumb on the Gauley, is that everything is undercut.


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## lmyers (Jun 10, 2008)

Thanks for sharing Phil. That is pretty scary, but educational. I totally agree with a similar sign at Railroad Bridge, but I think there should be one at the Numbers launch too. Lots of people run both as a full day trip.


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## kglaeser (Feb 21, 2004)

Phil,
I think a sign at the putin is too little information too late. Getting the information out through the community is probably the most important. Those Nealy type maps of rapids are absolutely priceless. I know that I would feel alot better having that kind of detail when jumping into a new to me river!

Ken


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## SummitAP (Jun 23, 2007)

Phil - WOW!


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## chepora (Feb 6, 2008)

I really liked the sign at the gauley put-in...but something right above the rapid is nice for people who have no idea where initiation/frog are. I ran the lower G once at 600 cfs and it was hideous...you could fit whole rafts in places under most of those rocks.


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## hot750four (May 1, 2010)

Hi all any help is always good, by the way what are the : Nealy type maps of rapids are absolutely priceless. thanks for any info and keep it up right


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## Phil U. (Feb 7, 2009)

lmyers said:


> Thanks for sharing Phil. That is pretty scary, but educational. I totally agree with a similar sign at Railroad Bridge, but I think there should be one at the Numbers launch too. Lots of people run both as a full day trip.


Good call...


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## lmyers (Jun 10, 2008)

hot750four said:


> by the way what are the : Nealy type maps of rapids are absolutely priceless. thanks for any info and keep it up right


 "Nealy type rapid map"-










here is a good place to find his books:

Amazon.com: William Nealy: Books


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## hillmooley (Jun 4, 2008)

*please*

Attention: All you walmart boaters that want to put up signs on the river should try paddling the NC man made park. Please stay off real rivers. They are dangerous and nobody wants to see you sally club boaters getting hurt. You can talk rivers at the meetings, dream of rivers. tell people you shoot rapids, jack yur meat to canoe porn but please stay off the river. Nobody wants any god damn signs on the river. Thanks for understanding. Wes


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## lmyers (Jun 10, 2008)

hillmooley said:


> Attention: All you walmart boaters that want to put up signs on the river should try paddling the NC man made park. Please stay off real rivers. They are dangerous and nobody wants to see you sally club boaters getting hurt. You can talk rivers at the meetings, dream of rivers. tell people you shoot rapids, jack yur meat to canoe porn but please stay off the river. Nobody wants any god damn signs on the river. Thanks for understanding. Wes


Your a jackass and don't know what your talking about.


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## MtnGuyXC (Jul 20, 2006)

Geee!.....Sorry Wes....but I don't undertstand you....What skin is it off your back to see a sign at the put in of one of these highly comercialized rivers that are used by thousands of boaters every year if it could save a life??? It's not like we are talking about posting Neon signs on some wilderness/backcountry creek run....You probably wouldn't read it anyways so what diference does it make?

The rapid on the Gauley being referred to has an inviting surf wave right above it...that you really don't need to mess with...but you just might say...hey look at that & zip right into it for a surf...& later on that day they we could be doing an extraction on you.....S*#t can happen no matter how experienced you might be...so stay humble Wes...


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## LineDawg (Oct 18, 2009)

Didn't some of those Missouri boaters get in Black Rock this year and barely live to tell the tale? No offense to the victim, just don't think flat landers w/ a few rolling hills should be telling us how/what to boat.


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## chepora (Feb 6, 2008)

Wes, with that sort of ego you must be a second year raft guide. Yes it is annoying to have signs all over the river, but that's not what we're talking about here. We're talking about the effectiveness of using one of the many helpful ideas that have been presented as options to make a busy, commercialized stretch of river safer and more enjoyable. I watched a fellow guide and his cousin swim the undercut at initiation and it was truly frightening. I would hate to think that someone might try to surf the wave above there or not pay attention b/c they had no idea it was there, the sign at the put-in at least gives people a heads up. Plenty of us boaters love the rivers out here and we understand our risks, no-one going to put up a sign at Gore telling boaters where the line is. However there are areas, such as putins/takeouts or the location where the CURRENT sign is located above frog rock, which are on stretches of river that get huge quantities of commercial and private use especially by beginners or in the Gauleys' case by boaters from different regions who are unfamiliar with the run. So unless you have something helpful and informative to add, why don't you jerk your tiny penis off in someone else's direction. 
Thanks and have a great day!


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## hot750four (May 1, 2010)

hay nothing wrong with a little HELP to let someone know of a problem area, sounds a little bit like you are a bunny huger


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## cadster (May 1, 2005)

This year’s Gauley deaths put undercuts in perspective. From today's The Morning Report for Thursday, September 30, 2010:

_New River Gorge National River (WV)_
_Two Drown In Separate Rafting Accidents On Gauley River_

_The Gauley River National Recreation Area and the community of Summersville are hosts to American Whitewater's largest festival of the year – the Gauley Fest. Originally started 1983 to celebrate the derailment of a hydro-electric project that would have dewatered the upper river, Gauley Fest today is one of the largest whitewater festivals in the world and attracts tens of thousands of people. Canyon District and Gauley rangers mobilized to handle the large crowds and traffic. Few law enforcement incidents resulted from the crowds, but rangers conducted six whitewater patrols, assisting many visitors who were pitched from their boats, handled three emergency evacuations (a back injury, a dislocated shoulder, and a seizure) from the remote area, and recovered two drowning victims._

_The first occurred on Sunday, September 19th. A 26-year-old foreign exchange student, Jie An Yang, spilled out of her commercial raft along with several others at the Iron Curtain rapid on the Gauley River at approximately 9:30 a.m. Iron Curtain rapid is located approximately 3.2 miles below the Lake Summersville Dam. Raft guides commenced a search immediately and notified the National Park Service. NPS rangers trained for swift water rescue, Department of Natural Resources personnel, the Summersville dive rescue team, the Nicholas County Sheriff’s Department, a Jan Care ambulance crew, and the Kessler’s Cross Lanes volunteer fire department responded and began search efforts. Initial search efforts were unsuccessful, so the National Park Service made a request for a reduction in the river flow. The Army Corps of Engineers at the Summersville Dam commenced a progressive drawdown of the Gauley River at approximately 11:00 a.m. to reduce the amount of water cascading through the river corridor. Normal river flows at the time of the accident were about 2800 cubic feet per second. The drawdown resulted in flows of about 200 cubic feet per second, which allowed rescuers and divers to begin working in the pools in and around the Iron Curtain rapid. The victim was found under a large rock that was undercut by the river around 4 p.m. and her body was recovered. The accident investigation is ongoing._

_On Monday afternoon, rangers received a report that a 21-year-old man in a private raft had disappeared while running Fingernail Rapid on the Gauley River. The rapid is located about 7.5 miles below the Lake Summersville Dam. National Park Service swift water rescue personnel, Kessler's Cross Lanes volunteer firefighters, Nicholas County Sheriff's Department divers, and West __Virginia Department of Natural Resources personnel conducted a search of the area. The raft was recovered, but the missing man was not found. The NPS again asked for a reduction in the river flow. The Army Corps of Engineers at the Summersville Dam commenced a progressive drawdown of the Gauley River, reducing the flow to about 300 cubic feet per second. This made it possible for searchers and divers to begin working in the pools in and around the rapid. Due to darkness and river hazards, search operations had to be suspended for the night. A crew remained on scene overnight to monitor the area. Search crews began working their way back into the area early Tuesday morning and again set up search operations on the rapid. Due to the intricacies of the water system and the distance downstream from the dam, it took most of the day for water flows to recede to levels that allowed searchers to safely work under the deep undercut rock. The body of Matthew Hanes, a 21-year-old Cleveland, Tennessee, man who was an experienced Ocoee River guide, was found by rangers in the rapid that afternoon. An NPS liaison was assigned to the family and friends, later escorting Hanes’ mother and father to the coroner’s office. [Submitted by Jeff West, Chief Ranger] _


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## hawkiirock (Jun 19, 2010)

I hope to see more details on Matt's tragedy. Just so we can learn more from it b/c seemed like an easier rapid

I will say that I never saw the sign about Initiation at the put in on the Upper Gauley. Didn't notice any signs. So to the guy cussing about signs, they must not stick out that much because nobody in our group noticed them.


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