# Dry Box Seat or Not



## bcpnick (Jul 16, 2015)

I like sitting on foam on the box. It makes the area more versatile, in my opinion. I am always make sure to strap down a large, comfy dry bag right behind it so I can fully recline as desired. Probably boils down to personal preference though. I used a chair for a while and didn't like it. Felt too high and too restrictive.


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## k2andcannoli (Feb 28, 2012)

Lower center of gravity and an abilty to easily shift your weight will make you much harder to flip.


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## fajawiebe (Sep 9, 2016)

I had a seat mounted directly to my dry box for few years and didn't like. It made the lid of the dry box too heavy (and a bit of a safety hazard) and eventually I had to replace the dry box hinge. I switched to flip-seat and it works great.


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## mattman (Jan 30, 2015)

Think the main pro's and cons got covered above. I sit on my cooler with my paco pad on top, and works well, so think you could be real happy sittin on your dry box. Having a good dry bag for a back rest will eventually be key for ya, cause you never get any younger, and it is safer, cause it makes so you couldn't fall over backwords in a flip, or after to many beers!!
Make sure it is not some kind of foam that will fill with water and soak your ass, that would just suck....


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## davbaker (Aug 4, 2013)

My last boat had a high back seat on the dry box. It was comfortable enough but made it damn near impossible to open the dry box when there was gear loaded behind it. I ended up removing it. On my new boat I sit on a Paco with dry bags behind me and am as comfy as can be.


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## Wadeinthewater (Mar 22, 2009)

gjoll said:


> I've also rowed drift boats with a rope seat and no back and didn't mind that either.Thanks


How about a rope seat on your box? That way you would not be sitting in a puddle all day with a wet butt. I have a similar seat on my frame but I use strapping instead of rope because I think it is more comfortable.


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## markhusbands (Aug 17, 2015)

those rope seats actually look like decent garage projects.


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## codycleve (Mar 26, 2012)

I built a flip seat for around 17 bucks. I had always sat on a seat with my cat and really liked it. So far this flip seat has been awesome. Here is a link. https://www.mountainbuzz.com/forums/f44/what-size-pipe-for-sleeve-over-nrs-pipe-87618.html


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## Treswright3 (May 20, 2013)

I have been using a low back NRS seat on my cooler and this summer I finally took it off and ordered a foam/fabric dry box cover from Wetdreams River supply. I hated the seat, Its not comfortable and you can't relax in it on flatware. Also I find I like to change my seat position when rowing in powerful water vs flat water, If I was rowing in a rapid I would be sitting forward on the edge of the seat and that wasn't comfy either. Plus, If Im just floating and not rowing much I prefer to be able to lean back on a paco or my gear pile. I decided Im just not a seat guy.


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## caverdan (Aug 27, 2004)

Personally, I would not mount a seat to my dry box lid. Besides drilling holes, you'll have to make a backing plate so the bolts won't pull through. 

I use to use a Paco pad for my seat on my dry box. A few years back, the corner of my dry box rubbed a hole in my Paco pad, during a Deso trip. I now use a square throw cushion like the one required if your boat 16' or longer. It's a cheap and easy solution to padding a cooler or dry box. I keep my Paco pad over my cooler for passengers and to keep the sun off of it. The Paco doesn't come off the boat till the sun goes down. The throw cushion is nice to sit on during lunch on the beach.......or if your chair breaks during a trip.


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## almortal (Jun 22, 2014)

I use a crazy creek style flip up camp chair. Its really handy because it flips down easy if I don't want it, is easily removed, and is multipurpose. I am a lounger/sloucher so I can loosen the straps and really lean back while rowing, or tighten it to have a very upright position. They are also great for passengers lounging across the front deck.


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## GeoRon (Jun 24, 2015)

Several good reasons have been mentioned for not mounting a seat to the top of your dry box.

When working with people outfitting their boat I'd always recommend a seat, tractor or flip. Forward flipping. 

I know that this statement will likely generate a response but here goes, it seems like more people without seats end up coming out of their boat when getting hammered in big water. Several times on Grand trips I'd notice someone in a rental boat having control problems which were mostly solved when I'd rig a seat back using gunnage. They were always grateful. 

Can you imagine a jet pilot sitting on a cooler? Seats with a back seem to allow people to lock themselves in better rather than slipping and sliding around on a cooler or dry box. Besides, I just at times love to lean back and enjoying seeing some of the most beautiful scenery in the world drift by.


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## newpc (Aug 3, 2009)

Mount the seat on a board, strap the board to the box.


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## carvedog (May 11, 2005)

GeoRon said:


> S
> Can you imagine a jet pilot sitting on a cooler?


What kind of raft you running? I have never even been close to Mach 1. I maybe maxed out at about 12 to 15 mph on the entry to some big drops.....


I have been sitting on a drybox for years. Only fallen out once. And I super comfy when rowing or leaning back on to the gear pile. No pesky high or low back to get in my way.


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## GeoRon (Jun 24, 2015)

Howdy Carve Dog.

It is a very fast cat pulling many "G's" instantly in many directions when getting gyrated around in big water Perhaps not exactly like sitting in the cockpit of a jet, but please, don't mess with my fantasy that that is exactly what I'm doing, flying very low and very fast and very controlled. 

Maybe you helped proved my point. In nearly 40 years of rowing I have flipped a couple of times but I've never felt like I've come close to falling out, flipping out, washing out, sucked out, rolling out, etc, of my boat. Usually, I feel firmly wedged in place between my foot bar and seat back. Sounds like you can't make that boast having fallen out of your boat "once".

I have many times pulled hard enough to find myself confined by the high back seat,,, which fortunately prevented me from ending up in one of the back bays or behind the boat in the river. I really like that feeling of positive positioning, a known front and back and minimized slop left and right.

Today I was in DRE designing my new fantasy frame with the guys, high grading the best of everything. I spent considerable time looking at a small cat frame that spends most of its time running Gore and many other Class V rivers of the West and NorthWest US. It had a high back seat. 

Check out videos of dudes rowing Gore, NF Payette, SF Salmon and other hairy rivers in rafts/catarafts. They are never sitting on a flat surface(aka cooler or dry box). They are always sitting in at least a low back tractor seat such that they know where their ass is and hope to have there ass there at the bottom of running long technical class V verging on (based upon the consequences) Class VI. Keeping your ass in the prescribed position is a very good idea. Letting your ass slim around the top and off of a slippery surface is not such a good idea. This is just an opinion and probably not just mine.

It is all a personal thing but when I have a chance to give my best two cents to someone dropping perhaps well over $5K on a boat, I recommend a high back seat if they plan to do big water or technical rivers. Just to complete just how biased I am, I also recommend oar rights if rowing open oar locks. I guess I'm just a sissy. 

I will save the tradition of Grand Canyon guides sitting on coolers running unrighted open oars for another day(they just never knew better-)).


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

I second the crazy creek chair, on top of a paco pad, on top of the cooler. Lower center of gravity, the ability to reposition oneself in a snap, and easy access to the cooler. Have tried many different iterations of seats, low back tractor, high back tractor, DRE/AAA kidney killer seats, and my first frame with a slant board and in my opinion, and old school tastes, nothing beats the crazy creek. 



MY 2¢, your mileage may vary


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## Dr.AndyDVM (Jul 28, 2014)

GeoRon nailed it. I used to sit on the box with etha foam. It soaked up the water and gave me gunnel butt. Then I switched to an inflatable pad sold by cascade just for the dry box. That was definitely an upgrade. But I would fall out if the boat a lot in rapids. I couldn’t “lock in” by wedging my feet against the foot bar and my back against the seat back. 

My first trip in Hells Canyon I had 2 watershed dry bags mounted directly behind the dry box. I noticed I was way more solid in the cockpit during rapids. Th bags allowed me to lock in. 

When I got back, I tried to get the DRE mesh seat for my boat but you have to have your dry box built with special spacers to allow for a wider hole. The radius of the pipes on the mesh seat won’t clear the corners of the dry box otherwise. My box was brand new and I didn’t feel like spending that much to get a new seat. I ended up opting for the NRS flip seat bracket. It gives me a seat on top of the dry box but it’s not attached to the box. It flips forward for access to the dry box while on the river. I think the mesh would dry your shorts quicker though. 

The cons of the flip seat are that it adds about 5” more height than the foam to where you are sitting. It means I need 10” rowing towers. I have the high back and I like the support. 

Having tried the box vs a seat, I like the seat and wouldn’t go back. I wouldn’t mind an alternative though that lowered the height of the seat. That would be the best of both worlds. Although, being up high does let me see over my passengers better.


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## markhusbands (Aug 17, 2015)

MNichols said:


> I second the crazy creek chair, on top of a paco pad, on top of the cooler. Lower center of gravity, the ability to reposition oneself in a snap, and easy access to the cooler. Have tried many different iterations of seats, low back tractor, high back tractor, DRE/AAA kidney killer seats, and my first frame with a slant board and in my opinion, and old school tastes, nothing beats the crazy creek.


Do you do anything to strap it down?


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## paulster (May 27, 2011)

I've never understood the infatuation with tractor seats on rafts. I have a pad that an auto upholstery restorer-friend made for me - soft white vinyl pad filled with closed-cell foam with a 6 inch skirt all the way around that covers the seam on my cooler (I sit on a cooler) and helps cooler performance. Before I had that, I just had a piece of closed cell foam. Both held on with the straps holding the cooler in. In something like 6,000 miles of rowing I've never missed the grip of a seat and in fact like the ability shift around, using my feet and legs on a plywood floor and side-dry boxes that keep my footwell pretty tight. All much more simple and efficient than a seat. And spouse and I can sit side by side on it in the evening with an adult beverage.


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## newpc (Aug 3, 2009)

they give awesome back support for pushing, you gotta try it and see for yourself. Works best with a drybox though not a cooler.


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## Eagle Mapper (Mar 24, 2008)

I sit on a small paco pad on the dry box. I like that I can move around more and I like the clean lines it gives the boat. I have been ejected from the boat a couple of times due to not having something to stop my backwards momentum. Try it without and you can always add one if need.


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## dport (May 10, 2006)

I bolted a cutting board to my low back seat cut a slot in each corner for cam straps. I now have a low rise seat that I can strap to the top of a cooler or dry box.
The seat stays in place well on top of the dry box with the foam on it. It is some what adjustable as well. It can also be stowed away if you want to just sit on the box in calmer water.


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## Pine (Aug 15, 2017)

*I would recommend not mounting a seat to the drybox*

...the aluminum is very soft, and my suspicion is that it would eventually cause problems. Also, as others have mentioned, it makes it nearly impossible to open the dry box when the boat is loaded with out derigging.

There are some mounting options were the seat is on a separate mount that flips forward, out of the way of the box. These seem like a better idea if you want a tractor seat. I sit on my dry box, which has 1" dense ethafoam on it. It is super comfy, especially with a dry bag rigged for a back rest. 

I prefer using a dry box as my seat, as opposed to a cooler. With my rig the cooler sits up way higher than the dry box, and would mean investing in higher oar towers, and would create a higher center of gravity. My dry box also clamps into the frame with Southco latches, so it is much more solid than the cooler, which has quite a bit of play in the frame.


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## mttodd (Jan 29, 2009)

I gave up on seats. I’ve used about everything mentioned above. Including boards with seats strapped to them. Crazy creeks are ok too. I sit on ethafoam currently, it isn’t as ass locked as a high back, but the real world benefits are way more functional. Neff turned me on to these foam self adhesive kayak seats that I will be using from now on. Surf To Summit Hot Seat Kayak... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00BTKI3RW?ref=yo_pop_ma_swf


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

Why is everything so black or white?


It's not a binary decision.


If your thing is running meaty class V's, I'm just guessing it's not a ton of multidays..other than the Grand, there isn't that much big water all linked up. Grab that high back seat and rock it.


If your thing is multidays, you have a cooler, drybox, table, etc. Go for what is most comfortable and just find a way to lock in for the biggest water you'll see each day.


I like a light, slick boat for the Lochsa. The drybox never goes along. I use a lowback seat in a stern frame or a small 2-bay frame. I just don't like all those extra bars to bang into, and yes I flip...and it has nothing to do with my seat choice.


For multidays, I love the PVC pad on my drybox, it's just so darn comfy...and i do like some soft drybags behind me to lounge back or to lock in for the occasional III+ or IV-.


Everything is a compromise. Run what feels good to you and for the water you're in that trip.


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## fishlake (Dec 10, 2012)

*canoe seat*

I re-outfitted a 14-foot Hyside for the Grand a couple years ago. Wanted to sit on the foam-topped dry box but it was difficult to figure out how to strap on gear to give me good back support. I bought a folding canoe seat that came with straps to attach to a regular flat canoe seat. Of course the straps were way too short but just bought strap extenders (extra strap material with matching buckles) so they would wrap all the way around the dry box. Worked like a charm and just had to unclip the buckles to open the box.


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## Gearman (Apr 28, 2015)

As many replies as there are variables! 
Personally I'm in the Crazy Creek Chair on a Paco on a foamed dry box crowd for multi days and without the Paco for day floats. Comfy enough, ass locked enough and easy enough to access the box when needed. That being said I DO have DRE/RiverBoatWorks captain's flip seat envy... BADASS COMFY! And, you are sittin' up in the world for a good view. However, one must think of the flip side (pun intended), that height gives more to get beat up, hung up, and wracked when wrong side up! If you do go with the tractor seat option tho, I've seen and rowed a pretty slick setup with the seat mounted to synthetic (Trex) deck boards held onto the dry box/cooler with NRS straps over the top of the boards and box/cooler. And personally not a big fan of the NRS seat bar mount 'cause I think it's a waste of space (very strong and positive tho).
Bottom line, go with what you "feel" comfortable with and works for you. 
Don't over think it, keep it simple, have fun, boat often, and boat safe!


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## bulltrout (Apr 3, 2015)

It comes down to personal preference. My first raft (a used 1989 Avon) had a low back seat bolted to the top of the dry box. I really enjoyed it and thought that it was more comfortable than sitting on a dry box with ethafoam or a pvc pad. I recently purchased a new raft and had the Recretec tractor seat assembly welded to the top of my dry box with a low back seat. I am really happy with it. It is adjustable, so if my wife or kids want to row they can slide the seat forward. It is nice having some back support and I like sitting up a little bit higher. It does make getting into the rear dry box a little more difficult with the seat. With a fully loaded raft, I can open the box up about halfway. Not a big deal since all the food and snacks are up in the front dry box under where the kids sit.


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## BENT BEARD (May 25, 2018)

I use a NRS gig bob seat strapped to the crossbar in front of my box. It flips down so the drybox can open. The back is like a crazy creek totally adjustable. The low profile doesn't buck you off in big water and you can pop out to high side when needed.


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