# Middle Fork Salmon: flows, difficulty and skill level.



## Pine (Aug 15, 2017)

I know there are dozens of threads on this topic, but some of them are so long, it's hard to find all the relevant info. So, I thought I'd start another, as I'm sure all kinds of people are searching for this info this time of the year.

I've run the Middle Fork at very low flows like <1.65' which is super boney and technical, and makes you wonder if its worth it at times. I've also run it at screaming high flows, over 7.0' which involves long sections of big, continuous class IV with a definite risk of flipping if you miss a line. High flows also make you wonder if its worth it at times (I won't go back that high). One time I rafted it solo in the mid range between 3.0' to 3.5' which was super fun. There were some challenging lines and big hits here and there, and the potential to flip or pin definitely existed, but there were also sneaks at Velvet and Pistol. Overall, it was a fairly manageable and a lot less stressful than low or high flows.

At any level, I think the Middle Fork requires class IV rowing skills, but many people might argue with me that it's not that hard. My assessment is based more on risks of flips and pins, potential length of swims, as well as technical difficulty of the hardest lines. At low flows, consequences might be lower, but the moves are technically very difficult and require a high degree of precision. At high flows, you definitely better have your sh*t together and be with a solid group. For context, I have over 20 years private and commercial experience. I regularly solo runs like the Bruneau, though IMO I tend to be conservative about difficulty and flows.

What I'm wondering is, what to expect in the 4.0' to 5.0' range? Are there any particularly challenging rapids (Pistol Creek? Velvet? Tappen? Rubber?) and what is the over all character and difficulty like then. We would be on a single boat trip (14' gear boat) trip so I'm leaning towards caution here. 

I'd love to hear what other people have to say on this subject in general, as well as specifically about the 4' to 5' range.

Pine


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## carvedog (May 11, 2005)

Its super fun at that flow. The Cracker Wave in Rubber gets fairly spectacular at 4.5 to 5 feet. I also love the river at 7 feet and below 1.65 so my view may be moot. When are you expecting this 4 to 5 feet? The river will go up some with the warm weather today and the next couple, but I don't really think it has much legs.


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## jpurkiss (May 1, 2017)

Last year at 4.1' Rubber was intense. We almost had a flip and both parties at the take-out had flips that day. Otherwise, it was a great time and made easy miles on the river.


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## TFVandal (Oct 6, 2015)

I think MF has peaked, I wouldn't expect 4-5' rest of the year, could be wrong...


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## SpudCat (Aug 24, 2020)

TFVandal said:


> I think MF has peaked, I wouldn't expect 4-5' rest of the year, could be wrong...


Sadly, this seems likely. 

Dismal remaining snowpack: https://www.wcc.nrcs.usda.gov/ftpref/gis/images/id_swepctnormal_update.png

Short-term projection: National Weather Service Advanced Hydrologic Prediction Service
Recent historic peaks (frequently in mid-May): Recent Crests for Middle Fork Salmon River at Middle Fork Lodge

= pretty likely chance things have peaked. Rough water year.


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## Pinchecharlie (Jul 27, 2017)

As an aspiring m.f. runner...whats the friendliest level/s ?


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

jpurkiss said:


> Last year at 4.1' Rubber was intense. We almost had a flip and both parties at the take-out had flips that day. Otherwise, it was a great time and made easy miles on the river.


Ran it at 3.9' last year.
Yeah, Rubber surprised me!
Had two flips in Velvet--there's a clear line to the middle-left and you need to be on it!
Pistol was easy. I nearly cleaned it, but tapped the wall. Get closer to that middle rock than you think you should; the current will push you left.
Tappan Falls is grabby in the middle, but easy-peasy on the right--just be moving center after the first drop to avoid the hole in the bottom.

Otherwise my 18yo daughter who was raised on the Lochsa said, "that was it?"


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## Pine (Aug 15, 2017)

MT4Runner said:


> Ran it at 3.9' last year.
> Yeah, Rubber surprised me!
> Had two flips in Velvet--there's a clear line to the middle-left and you need to be on it!
> Pistol was easy. I nearly cleaned it, but tapped the wall. Get closer to that middle rock than you think you should; the current will push you left.
> ...


I cleared the wall just fine at Pistol, but got pushed onto the rock on the river right side at the bottom. All the other groups ran the right line that day. Left was easy, just had to watch that last move.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

Not sure if this is public, but a vid of my run:



__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10207086214190627


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## eyeboat (Feb 7, 2017)

IMHO: Been down a few times at all levels ( Stopped counting at 20) 6ish a lot washes out. I think 4.5-5.5 is when you have to be on your game. 3 to 4 is just fun time. 1.8 and lower- time to really pay attention.Two years ago at 4.5 I decided to run the the middle of Rubber in a 15 ft WD to see what boat would do.. Sunny day. Got my gear ready- crotchstrap on my PFD and ran in the back of the pack.Boat went vertical and was 3/4 straight up out of the water. I knew that it has an OK run-out.My first trip as a passenger, we flipped in Velvet !!! At 3.5 plus syotr Launch May22 this year.


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## captbarryw (Mar 9, 2021)

Have a trip June 8. Hoping to take the dory (wood), but not looking too promising for water levels


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## Wallrat (Jan 19, 2021)

MT4Runner said:


> Not sure if this is public, but a vid of my run:
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10207086214190627


Clean, elegant, stylish. Judges give it an 8.5.


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## cupido76 (May 22, 2009)

MT4Runner said:


> Not sure if this is public, but a vid of my run:
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10207086214190627


Super clean... nice!


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## Riverwild (Jun 19, 2015)

Around 5ft can be juicy and sharp. We had a rouge wave flip a experience guide in big pine the rapid right above elk bar. It was crazy. Waves were sharp everywhere in the lower canyon.


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## showme44 (May 13, 2013)

Pinchecharlie said:


> As an aspiring m.f. runner...whats the friendliest level/s ?


3.5


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## FatmanZ (Sep 15, 2004)

On a June trip last year with the level right around 4.0 I was really surprised at how friendly of a level it was from behind the oars. I'm much more comfortable in a kayak than a raft so I was prepared for big water and limited lines in the raft and it was a much easier level than I had expected. It was definitely easier than pushing rubber thru low water run. 

That said, the consequences on a remote run like that are always high regardless of how "easy" it may be overall based on flow. Velvet is a good example, a simple move or line to avoid the carnage, but with high potential consequences if you mess up.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

cupido76 said:


> Super clean... nice!





Wallrat said:


> Clean, elegant, stylish. Judges give it an 8.5.


I tapped the wall. Russian judge gives self a 6.


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## jpurkiss (May 1, 2017)

MT4Runner said:


> I tapped the wall. Russian judge gives self a 6.


How do you not hit the wall?


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

Get closer to the rock, ride the pillow. I pulled back too soon--almost should have pushed/downstream ferried when I got near the rock and sliced past.
I'm also being more critical of myself and considering how I'd make the same line in a dory. Pistol and Sulphur Slide/Chutes are the major reasons I'm hesitant to take a big hard boat down the MFS.

PLEASE--constructive criticism very welcome. I find this a very interesting rapid. Can take this to a new thread if this is distracting from the current one.

I'll find the vid--another boat in our group was cleaner.


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## Pinchecharlie (Jul 27, 2017)

Just need two big sweep strokes up front and a push. Of course iam not criticizing your girls at all !! Thats how the pros want you to kiss rocks anyway! Is that rock right center notorious for making trouble?


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

All these vids were the same group; we launched at about 3.9'

Started Left, used the waves/holes to slow his momentum. Pulling in the hard spots, only tapped an oar at bottom left:



__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10207086298632738



Way farther right, way more momentum. Then a lot of lateral momentum to the left and tapped the wall harder than I did.



__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10207086255831668



Good slow momentum at the top. Should have taken one more back stroke in the center, got kicked hard left.



__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10207086255831668



Started right, stayed in the meat in the middle at the rock, didn't get kicked left



__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10207086196150176



IMHO this is the prettiest line:



__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10207086077907220


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

Pinchecharlie said:


> Just need two big sweep strokes up front and a push. Of course iam not criticizing your girls at all !! Thats how the pros want you to kiss rocks anyway! Is that rock right center notorious for making trouble?


No negative criticism inferred!

Those two girls saved my ass in Tappan Falls (right down the meat in the middle) and in Rubber (go big or go home! They dug in the front and pulled me over the center of the wave)


Rock doesn't necessarily cause trouble...you just never want to get pinned on a rock in general, so people tend to give it a lot of space..you need only to give it a little space at this flow.


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## jpurkiss (May 1, 2017)

MT4Runner said:


> Get closer to the rock, ride the pillow. I pulled back too soon--almost should have pushed/downstream ferried when I got near the rock and sliced past.
> I'm also being more critical of myself and considering how I'd make the same line in a dory. Pistol and Sulphur Slide/Chutes are the major reasons I'm hesitant to take a big hard boat down the MFS.
> 
> PLEASE--constructive criticism very welcome. I find this a very interesting rapid. Can take this to a new thread if this is distracting from the current one.
> ...


I tried forward pushing into that pillow at 4' and I took way too much momentum into the same rock you did. Almost took off someone's head.


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## jpurkiss (May 1, 2017)

All those videos are great! 

It looks like being in the main current on the left creates the cleanest line as long as you dump the momentum going into the S-turn?


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## Wallrat (Jan 19, 2021)

MT4Runner said:


> I tapped the wall. Russian judge gives self a 6.


Clearly, that was an intentional “spin-to-win” move, and increased the score from what would have been a clean but somewhat boring line.


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## cain (Dec 28, 2011)

Launched at 4.25 and 3.5. From what I was told those are fun levels and they where right. At both those levels Rubbers first wave was huge. Stood my boat straight up both times but dropped right over and rode the wave train out. Great fun. Advice I was given for Rubber was Hey diddle diddle right down the middle and keep the nose straight.


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## carvedog (May 11, 2005)

cain said:


> Launched at 4.25 and 3.5. From what I was told those are fun levels and they where right. At both those levels Rubbers first wave was huge. Stood my boat straight up both times but dropped right over and rode the wave train out. Great fun. Advice I was given for Rubber was Hey diddle diddle right down the middle and keep the nose straight.


T up on the lateral coming from the left. Too many go 'straight' with the channel not realizing how fast that lateral is coming.


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## jamesg (Sep 22, 2016)

carvedog said:


> T up on the lateral coming from the left. Too many go 'straight' with the channel not realizing how fast that lateral is coming.


That move hosed me in Rubber at 5ish ft. Hit it right as it was surging and flipped us end over end. Likely the biggest wave I've ever seen. The rest of our crew made it through upright (more center and right) although not without a few swimmers. Seems like a bit of a crap shoot at that level.


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## duct tape (Aug 25, 2009)

MT4Runner said:


> I tapped the wall. Russian judge gives self a 6.


RussIan judge is a softy. Passengers hands firmly attached to boat, not in air. Zero style points.


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## Junk Show Tours (Mar 11, 2008)

jamesg said:


> That move hosed me in Rubber at 5ish ft. Hit it right as it was surging and flipped us end over end. Likely the biggest wave I've ever seen. The rest of our crew made it through upright (more center and right) although not without a few swimmers. Seems like a bit of a crap shoot at that level.


Same here. Count me in the camp of straight down the middle.


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## UseTheSpinMove (Nov 16, 2016)

Pine said:


> I'd love to hear what other people have to say on this subject in general, as well as specifically about the 4' to 5' range.


We did a trip once that started around 4.5 but went up to ~5 by the time we got to the lower canyon. What I mostly remember compared to other years below 4 feet was that the lines hadn't changed much but the speed of the water sure had. The line at Tappan Falls hadn't changed, for instance, but the hole down below was suddenly really big and suddenly quite a bit harder to miss! Rubber was shockingly big but I didn't have time to think much about it... was grateful to come out upright. A lot of the lower rapids below that were flooded enough to take their edge off... miles were easy. Nothing extreme like what I'd heard of at 6+ but I definitely was paying more attention at 4+ than I was at 4-. 

That river is funny in how much of a difference a little water can make.


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## NativeDiver (Jun 7, 2017)

jpurkiss said:


> How do you not hit the wall?


Portage the rapid- sure fire way to avoid the wall.


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