# Screwed by Rec.gov on Yampa / Green



## Snowhere (Feb 21, 2008)

That sucks! :twisted: I did not win a permit, so I never got that far. Now I will be careful if I ever win a permit, thanks for the heads up.


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## RichardJames (Feb 16, 2015)

when i applied i thought i read the permit had to be accepted online and paid for by feb 28th or any unclaimed launches would be released for call-in march 2nd


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## jennifer (Oct 14, 2003)

Sorry your group lost the permits, but they are gone. Me and a trillion other folks wasted umpteen million calls and 4 mornings of our lives trying to get one of them. I was unsuccessful in getting through...


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## dfresh (May 19, 2010)

Screwed by Rec.gov 
Considering you didn't apply yourself, I guess you wouldn't have known. BUT, the site did say that you had to accept by Feb 28th. I did look just now to see where this was said exactly, and it looks like they have changed the wording since everyone got butt hurt. SO, I understand how you may be confused at looking at the site now, but that was not what was stated prior to March 1st. I applied and knew this, did not receive a lottery, but did pick up a cancellation. 
I'm kinda tired of people saying they got screwed. Technically you didn't get screwed cause you didn't apply, unless you consider being screwed cause your buddies failed to read the guidelines for lotteries. And because of your little rant, you are kinda making your friends look dumb because they did not bother to read the stipulations of being granted a lottery permit. But hey, there are always commercial trips!


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## riverdoghenry (Nov 18, 2008)

*Read...Don't Assume*



RichardJames said:


> when i applied i thought i read the permit had to be accepted online and paid for by feb 28th or any unclaimed launches would be released for call-in march 2nd


You are correct, I took the time *to read through the details of my application* and it was very clear that I had to accept a winning application by February 28th. I read this more than once:

"Permits awarded through the lottery need to be confirmed with full payment ($185.00) no later than 10 p.m. MST, February 28, 2015 or they will be cancelled."

I understand everyone's heartache over loosing their permits. At the same time, the application process indicated this deadline more than once when I read through all of the detail print before submitting my application. There was also a reminder to read all of the rules and regulations right before I hit the submit button. 

In all honesty, folks had to just skip over all the written details, and assumed it was blah, blah, blah, nothing ever changes, and hit the submit buttons. 

River permits are highly regulated and not consistent from one river corridor to the next. Not even consistent within the same agencies e.g. BLM etc. Every season at least one river has new rules and regulations. 

For several years, I keep a permit application journal, just to keep track of all the details and keep each river permit sorted. Otherwise, it's just a too many dates and details to keep in my mind for months. I write down the permit application number, I look for and record all deadlines, I look for cancellation rules, can I get a refund, if so, is their a refund deadline, and any other details.


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## riverdoghenry (Nov 18, 2008)

dfresh said:


> Screwed by Rec.gov
> Considering you didn't apply yourself, I guess you wouldn't have known. BUT, the site did say that you had to accept by Feb 28th. I did look just now to see where this was said exactly, and it looks like they have changed the wording since everyone got butt hurt. SO, I understand how you may be confused at looking at the site now, but that was not what was stated prior to March 1st. I applied and knew this, did not receive a lottery, but did pick up a cancellation.
> I'm kinda tired of people saying they got screwed. Technically you didn't get screwed cause you didn't apply, unless you consider being screwed cause your buddies failed to read the guidelines for lotteries. And because of your little rant, you are kinda making your friends look dumb because they did not bother to read the stipulations of being granted a lottery permit. But hey, there are always commercial trips!




Regarding, "I understand how you may be confused at looking at the site now, but that was not what was stated prior to March 1st.":

This is Google's cache of the page as it appeared on Jan 10, 2015 12:29:23 GMT. 

On Jan 10, 2015 12:29:23 GMT, it clearly stated:

*"Permits awarded through the lottery need to be confirmed with full payment ($185.00) no later than 10 p.m. MST, February 28, 2015 or they will be cancelled."*


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## David L (Feb 13, 2004)

Edward Murrow quoted Shakespeare:

"The fault, dear Brutus, is not in our stars, but in ourselves".

Next time, Read what you are supposed to do!!!


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## Brotorboat (Apr 14, 2009)

All I can say is...

Why didn't your friends (and everyone else who got "screwed") confirm immediately? Why would anyone wait more than a couple days???

I would confirm within minutes of finding out!


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## Gremlin (Jun 24, 2010)

Each one of these lotteries are different. I was waiting to confirm my Deso launch until I had a number of people and boats but found out it is OK to pay for a single person and change the totals before launching. Otherwise I would have waited too, which makes more sense than having to pay again or try to get a refund. Also, when I tried to pay online the link wasn't working. Luckily I had time to call the river office and confirm.

This system could certainly be better and some consistency would really help people who apply for multiple trips with their boater circles.


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## ArgoCat (May 14, 2007)

*Permits*

Yep. Got to be paranoid. I was awarded a smith permit on March 2nd, haven't seen an e-mail or gotten anything in the mail but it shows up in my "MYFWP" profile. Cancellations are released on March 17th. So I called the river office to confirm and make sure I"m not missing anything. They say: I don't think packets have gone out yet. No need to confirm, just show up with your people and pay on the day of your launch." Still makes me nervous not having a letter in hand or anything but a comment on a website.


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## patrick l (Mar 8, 2012)

Smith has always been that way, don't worry. Its run through the state park system. 


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## Randaddy (Jun 8, 2007)

River permits are not that complicated, just read the rules carefully so you can go. Sorry the OP missed out but if he could have gone they probably would have been "screwed" by the ranger for not knowing they need a firepan or spare PFD... One more permit for the telephone troopers!


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## restrac2000 (Mar 6, 2008)

I don't think its either/or with the accountability in this situation. Too many people fell into the transition's changes to be wiped away so cleanly. Yeah, read the rules carefully. That said, there should have been so good faith effort on the agency and rec.gov's part when they saw how many people failed to comply. The requirement to pay upfront and commit is new and obviously threw a lot of people off. 

I still don't understand why the lottery winners had to pay upfront but those who pick up cancellations have until 30 days before the launch to pay. Just odd to me.

Phillip


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## dfresh (May 19, 2010)

*Can I show up to the put-in without a permit? I'm mean it's not really my fault for not reading the rules, right? I should be given some leeway for not knowing....*
Anyone defending those who got "screwed" out of their lottery permit, would probably be sympathetic to the above statement. 


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## dfresh (May 19, 2010)

And thank god there are ding dongs out their that "fell into the transition" of the permit system. Seriously, if it weren't for them, than many of us would have not been able to pick up a cancellation.
Yeah I guess it kinda sucks that you had to pay your lottery fee within a couple of weeks, or whatever it was once receiving the acceptance notice. But if you were really wanting that permit, you should have checked and double checked everything. I would have put down a deposit ahead of time to secure a date. If anything, it weeds out the yahoos. 

I mean would you feel bad for someone who didn't bring their throw bag, or bring a first aid kit bc they didn't read the regulations? Hell no, cause that means that they have no business being on a multi-day and that they are not prepared. 


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## riverdoghenry (Nov 18, 2008)

Thinking back several years ago when river runners were bitching about not reading their permits then:

River Ranger _"Can I see your fire blanket?"_

River Runner _"Fire blanket?"_

River Ranger _"Yes, the fire blanket that is now required as of this season (2008)."_

River Runner _"You've never required a fire blanket before."_

River Ranger _"We are now requiring it and you were notified in the permit packet."_

River Runner _"I never read that, I just assumed....."_

This is just another river season, with the same chronic issue!


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## Stiff N' Wett (Feb 18, 2010)

When I pull a permit from an unfamiliar river I Always call the river office and get the run down on everything. The last thing you want is to have all your buddies take off work and get excited and your to lazy to get the proper beta. My first Dino trip the lady at the office new me by name because I called her so often.


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## mvhyde (Feb 3, 2004)

This is an interesting thread. But the more important question here is WHY the F$%k do we need permits for something that belongs to "We The People"??????

I could understand a commercial company needing permits & licenses. But for private parties? Really?

Each and every single one of you needs to ask yourself how it is that you can support this type of nonsense from the government you voted for to represent you.

Rec.gov is a government monopoly and ripoff....


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## Randaddy (Jun 8, 2007)

mvhyde said:


> This is an interesting thread. But the more important question here is WHY the F$%k do we need permits for something that belongs to "We The People"??????
> 
> I could understand a commercial company needing permits & licenses. But for private parties? Really?
> 
> ...


Because without limitations on user days there would be no peace and solitude. Pretty naive Littleton...


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## restrac2000 (Mar 6, 2008)

mvhyde said:


> This is an interesting thread. But the more important question here is WHY the F$%k do we need permits for something that belongs to "We The People"??????
> 
> I could understand a commercial company needing permits & licenses. But for private parties? Really?
> 
> ...


Tragedy of the Commons....the system is highly imperfect but it avoids the degradation we have seen throughout time with shared resources.

Phillip


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## dfresh (May 19, 2010)

mvhyde said:


> This is an interesting thread. But the more important question here is WHY the F$%k do we need permits for something that belongs to "We The People"??????
> 
> I could understand a commercial company needing permits & licenses. But for private parties? Really?
> 
> ...


 I asked myself, and I came up with this. I support this nonsense to keep tards like you off the river. The very fact that you stomp your feet and question why every jack dick shouldn't be able to freely jump on a river without a permit is reason enough to have permits. Its this type of reasoning why Ruby Horse had to become permitted. When every ass clown and their mom are allowed to freely float without regulation, river sections camp areas turn into dumps! Nothing majestic about camp sites covered with toilet paper and old bonfire pits and a lurking smell of urine/poop stench. Go sign up for a commercial trip so you don't have to worry about all this crazy bureaucracy


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## pinemnky13 (Jun 4, 2007)

Apparently my freinds, others, and myself were able to read the fine print
And its going to be a beautiful start and end to,the season!


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