# "Where do you purchase your gear" Poll



## deepsouthpaddler (Apr 14, 2004)

Took the poll, but the choices don't really accurately represent how my kayak spending is distributed between online / local shops.

I try and support my local shop (Confluence!) as much as I can. If the local shop doesn't have what I need either due to selection, timing, etc, then I get it online.

For me, what ends up driving a lot of my kayak purchases is timing. I usually make major new purchases (boats, paddles, helmets, skirts) after gear fails on me. Its also usually right in the middle of the season when I need to get it replaced ASAP to get back on the water fast. If the local shop has exactly what I need (size, gear type etc) I will get it at the local shop. If the local shop doesn't have it, they I will likely go online to get it.

If I am buying something when timing is not an issue (ie offseason, or have to special order for both online/local), then I would typically buy at the local shop.

I like to try on clothing layers, so I typically would buy this local.

I wish I could buy shoes local, but many shops don't carry 5.10 shoes, so I buy shoes online.


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## Jesse-ImmersionResearch (Feb 25, 2011)

Thanks for taking the poll DeepSouth- 
We will take these things into consideration. The poll will give us a general idea of the mindset of the consumer. Please complete the answer to where the majority of your purchases lie when the sale is completed. 
Cheers!


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## ezwater (Sep 1, 2009)

"Immersion Research" has a terrific reputation, in spite of waterboarding.


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## KSC (Oct 22, 2003)

I'd also like to take this opportunity to bitch and complain about the poll. Why are there 2 verbs "buy" and "purchase" being used to apparently mean the same thing? I think it might go against the spirit of the poll, but since there was an option to make multiple selections I checked the first 4 since I buy both kayaks and accessories locally and online. However, the way it's formulated, you could easily contradict yourself with selections. Most kayakers are frequently under the influence of controlled substances so keeping it clear and simple helps a lot.


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## dirtbagkayaker (Oct 29, 2008)

I didn't see the option for: 

wait to find it used for 1/2 price cuz everything is way too spendy option.


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## PattyNYCO (Mar 21, 2005)

Of course I am biased, but GOLDEN RIVER SPORTS!


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## co_bjread (Oct 26, 2004)

Is Craigslist Online or local? 

I shop Craigslist online, but the people I buy from are locals. When I do buy new, I go wherever the gear is cheapest. My local retailer had some gear on clearance 40% off, you bet I bought it. For my wife, the best deal we found was online, so that is where we went. I am more loyal to my checkbook than any one store or website. Too many constraints on my budget not to be.


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## Mut (Dec 2, 2004)

I didn't take the poll because there was not an answer that accurately depicted my buying patterns. So I'll give you some feedback here and you can add it into the category you want.

I buy some of my gear online from a shop in a town where I used to be a local and a shop that I used to frequent in person.

I also buy things in person at my new local shop.

I use "local online" resources to buy used gear. Sites like MountainBuzz and Craigslist. 

I only use random online shops if all of my other go-to shops are out of the item and I need it fast, or if they do not carry what I like. 

But for soft good items like drytops, drysuits, base layers I always buy in person from a shop. I feel those items need to be tried on and If I am able to try something on at a shop and I plan on buying it, I will buy it from that shop and not go online to find it as cheap as possible. 

This may be off topic but if river folk want to be able to walk into your local shop and buy the items that you need right away I believe we need to support those shops as often as possible, even if that means ordering an item and waiting a couple days. The same goes for manufacturers. If a company wants me to buy their gear they need to support the local shops too. This might be in the form of quickly filling orders or assisting the shop in excellent customer service. I am sure the retail experts out there have much better ideas on how to support local retailers.


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## Andy H. (Oct 13, 2003)

Don't forget to check the list of local and national businesses that help support Mountainbuzz!


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## Mut (Dec 2, 2004)

Andy H. said:


> Don't forget to check the list of local and national businesses that help support Mountainbuzz!


Andy,
Good reminder. All of the stores I use support the Buzz.

Hey IR, are you on that list?


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## Anchorless (Aug 3, 2010)

I'll echo the complaints about the poll. I know that polling is the simplest way of collecting data, but it's the least accurate. 

For me it is mostly a matter of timing and convenience. Like most, I try to support the local shops when I can. But it also comes down to a price point. 

I buy most of my boats used, when good deals come along on boats that are in great shape. I have bought one boat from a local retailer, but it was a demo that was at a cut price, so that's a rarity. 

I typically buy my paddles and other gear from the local retailer, because they'll match online prices as close as they can, or they'll order something special if they don't have it and it won't cost me shipping. For instance, I just bought a new Werner and my Sweet Strutter from the local guys. I think in the past year or so I have also purchased a new PFD, booties, fleece and pogies from the local guys. 

When I bought my dry suit, though, I went online for that. Also went online for my last spray skirts.


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## Jesse-ImmersionResearch (Feb 25, 2011)

Hi Guys, 
Again, thanks for taking the time to provide some feedback on this. The poll is to reflect purchase of new items only. The ability to check more than one option is given to provide multiple answers for the reasons that your concern expresses. 
As far as IR not being on the "list of MB supporters" Mut....we sponsor and support every single whitewater event that we are approached about- in the majority of the country- that adds up to a couple hundred events per year. We also support your local dealers the best that we can by directing sales their way when we receive inquiries. We also donate a large amount of money to AW each and every year, as well as require that prodeal recipients donate $5 to AW for every order that is placed thru IR. We feel that our limited marketing budget gets put to the best use possible by doing this, as most of our resources get put back into helping our dealers, or R & D. The idea is to help where help is needed in regards to keeping our rivers open and available for all of us to enjoy- and help keep the interest in our sport alive!


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## Anchorless (Aug 3, 2010)

I personally don't think IR needs to justify itself or its contribution to the WW community. Most everyone I know thinks of IR as a very solid member of the community who makes extremely good products.


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## eklars (Mar 28, 2006)

Let's not forget MountainBuzz is a for-profit enterprise.


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## Mut (Dec 2, 2004)

Jesse,
You absolutley do not need to justify IR. I appologize for the quick reponse. I wasn't really paying attention to my reply like I did the my first post. 


I have all sorts of IR dry and warm gear and love it. 

I also see your company's presence at every event I attend. I really like your policy of donating $5 for every item that is bought through IR.


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## adgeiser (May 26, 2009)

Ian, 
please note post #13

just saying the floatie boat race at bailey could use a runner up prize.


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## Jesse-ImmersionResearch (Feb 25, 2011)

No worries Mut, it was bound to come up at some point. Lets try stay on topic here...this is valuable feedback that virtually every dealer, and every manufacturer has questions about. Until this point, no one has actually taken this type of public poll that we know of about how the majority of purchases are being made these days- in todays economy, and with the expansion of online dealers. Thanks to those of you who chose to contribute.


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## abron (Nov 19, 2004)

Well, I voted 'accessories online, kayak from Local store, although my 'local' store is CKS.5 hours away in Buena Vista. its all about the boat swap at CKS....:mrgreen: I also use CL and MB if anythings available locally. 

The accessories I buy online because of the Pro-form through the rafting company. Its hard to beat the deal NRS gives 'rafting industry' folks. what IS hard though is wanting to Raft after thirteen years. so who knows. been lucky enough to have that for a long time. just need a raft and those goodies and I can quit! (so yeah,at least like 5 more years....so much crap to do multi-days...lol)
that pro form is why i dont have any IR gear, unfortunately. I know its the goods. 

Keep up the good work with AW, thank you guys for that !!!!


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## Randaddy (Jun 8, 2007)

I usually buy direct from the company, because I qualify for pro purchase. That said, IR told me that if I wanted a pro purchase I could just go to their local retailer, which is a direct competitor of my employer, for an in-store discount. They knew nothing about it and weren't about to give me 30+% off. I was told that y'all don't give a pro deal direct. This is weak. I've been in the business for over ten years and any company that gives a shit about its name hooks up a direct discount for the dirtbags on the front lines because we tell a ton of people what gear to buy. 

So, Jesse, to make this long story short, I buy my gear from NRS, Kokatat, Stohlquist, Bomber Gear, Astral, Patagonia, Shred Ready, WRSI, Aire, Hyside, Smith Optics and all the other AWESOME companies that hook up outdoor professionals with pro pricing. I'll also be referring my rookie raft guides and all of my kayak clients to these companies this season.

Maybe IR should rethink its pro-deal policy.


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## abron (Nov 19, 2004)

Well holy shit. I sure did not intend to start a bitch-fest at a great paddler owned company, so let me just separate myself from that spray right now. as far as I know, Pro forms are a privilege not a right... 
way to show tact and grace dood. jeez.

I guess this is why companies dont want you to talk about pro deals. cause someones always got to get butthurt. I think they are a small company. not friggen confluence/nike/sprawlmart/ ny yankees evil empire status. it sounds like you have local issues, not IR issues, cause according to you... IR does have a discount . :neutral:


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## ednaout (Jun 3, 2005)

I'll mimic what someone else said about not being sure "local" and "online" can be the same. I have bought a few things off Mountainbuzz, so I'm not sure where that lies within the poll's options. 

I buy lower ticket accessories at my local shops: Confluence and Golden River Sports. I would buy larger ticket items, if I had more money to spend. Once out of school, I will be more able to spend more of my money in local shops because I feel strongly about supporting local/small business...however...I have never been a gear head and happily buy most all of my kayak related purchased second hand - it's not just the monetary savings, but an effort to reduce, reuse and recycle.
I hope that info is of value, in some way.


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## Kendi (May 15, 2009)

I ain't gonna lie- I buy where it's cheapest. Sure I look for the good stuff and don't buy crap, but as we all know it ain't cheap. I buy from where it costs me less. Sometimes that's on clearance at the local shop but mostly it's online. I refuse as a matter of principle to pay MSRP on anything I own. But as I said- "cost". If over the life of the product it will outlast a less expensive product- even if the price is a little more- I'm willing to pay it because it will cost less over the life of the item. FWIW

BTW-Didn't take the poll as it only refered to "kayakers"....guess rafters don't spend money on stuff.


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## Randaddy (Jun 8, 2007)

abron said:


> Well holy shit. I sure did not intend to start a bitch-fest at a great paddler owned company, so let me just separate myself from that spray right now. as far as I know, Pro forms are a privilege not a right...
> way to show tact and grace dood. jeez.
> 
> I guess this is why companies dont want you to talk about pro deals. cause someones always got to get butthurt. I think they are a small company. not friggen confluence/nike/sprawlmart/ ny yankees evil empire status. it sounds like you have local issues, not IR issues, cause according to you... IR does have a discount . :neutral:


I was merely posting information about where I buy my gear, from the companies that appreciate what raft guides and kayak instructors do for their business. I love IR gear, it's some of the best in the industry, but I can't afford it so I go with the companies that give me a pro deal. IR would have a more open line of communication with industry professionals if they offered the deal direct. Just my two cents, I didn't mean to "get butthurt." Also, no company has ever asked me not to talk about pro deals. I didn't know it was supposed to be a big secret. I don't scam the pro-deal, I only order gear for myself and am super grateful for the generous discounting.

That said, I buy most of my gear locally from Down River Equipment in Denver. Awesome service, knowledgeable staff, and top notch gear!


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## ednaout (Jun 3, 2005)

> BTW-Didn't take the poll as it only refered to "kayakers"....guess rafters don't spend money on stuff.


Awww, I think your little rafter feelings got hurt. Sorry, I digress.....


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## Kendi (May 15, 2009)

ednaout said:


> Awww, I think your little rafter feelings got hurt. Sorry, I digress.....


Not a bit- just pointing out they might want to expand their marketing research.


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## topbud (Apr 9, 2010)

Sounds like there is a dick on here. Should always say things in a nice way, and be kind


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## ednaout (Jun 3, 2005)

I swear to god, I am not a dick, it's not anatomically possible. Seriously, I was just being jovial.... all in good fun...
happy new year.


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## abron (Nov 19, 2004)

lol...it must be that snarky time of the year... and La Nina winter to boot!!! ...the buzz always get a case of the crabbypatties in the winter. not enough water on the brain.


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## topbud (Apr 9, 2010)

wasn't about you ednaout.


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## H2UhOh (Jul 27, 2010)

I agree that the poll doesn't allow much other than Yes/No kinds of answers, so it can't yield much useful (and accurate) info.

Another problem with your poll is that "local" is not defined. For example, one of the places I phone-order from is in Colorado but a few hours' drive from me. I'd rather UPS the item than spend a day driving back and forth.

For WW gear ONLY, I buy locally (as in "within one hour's drive") if the item is available (or soon to be), phone or online order if it's not.

For sea kayaking gear, I phone-order from coastal dealers I like who are "local" out of state but not local to me here in Colorado. If I'm there in person, I buy it right at the store. I buy this gear from out of our region because the array of gear and depth of knowledge of shop personnel are much better there, for sea kayaking. However, sometimes REI in the Denver area has something I want, and I will buy it "locally."


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## sealion (Oct 13, 2008)

I steal all my stuff. 

Ha ha, not really. I wait till my local shop puts stuff on sale, then buy. I have bought maybe nose plugs at full retail, and thats about it. I can't believe how nice they are about my sting-y-ness.(Just in case Don reads this)


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## twitch (Oct 16, 2003)

"We feel that our limited marketing budget gets put to the best use possible by doing this, as most of our resources get put back into helping our dealers, or R & D."

That's so weak Jesse. You could easily offer us a calendar entitled "The Ladies of Hood River" featuring a few local hotties wearing nothing but IR bootie shorts...just sayin'. I'm sure you know a few that fit the bill 

Oh yeah, polls need to be kept concise for data gathering purposes. Otherwise, as illustrated by all of us, it would be ridiculous to try and compile all the 'other' feedback. But I'm sure it's appreciated by IR none the less - just not Jesse as he never did learn to read.

And to the douche-*** bagging on IR's pro-deal policy, cry me a river. I'm an industry professional and I make a POINT to purchase items at small, locally owned businesses. I do not expect a discount in any way shape or form. If they extend one to me it's of their own doing and I graciously will accept it, if not, I feel good that my dollars are supporting someone as passionate about the sports I love as me...not to mention probably helping to put food on their family and employees tables. And one more thing, Stohlquist - while born right here in the great state of CO - is owned by a Chinese holding company. Enjoy your "pro-deal".


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## jsh (Oct 11, 2005)

Randaddy said:


> I was merely posting information about where I buy my gear, from the companies that appreciate what raft guides and kayak instructors do for their business. I love IR gear, it's some of the best in the industry, but I can't afford it so I go with the companies that give me a pro deal. IR would have a more open line of communication with industry professionals if they offered the deal direct. Just my two cents, I didn't mean to "get butthurt." Also, no company has ever asked me not to talk about pro deals. I didn't know it was supposed to be a big secret. I don't scam the pro-deal, I only order gear for myself and am super grateful for the generous discounting.
> 
> That said, I buy most of my gear locally from Down River Equipment in Denver. Awesome service, knowledgeable staff, and top notch gear!


 The first rule of Pro Form is: you do not talk about Pro Form. The second rule of Pro Form is: you DO NOT talk about Pro Form!

Pretty sure if you read the Rules and Regs for your Pro Form they almost always ask you to not discuss.

Just sayin


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## kayakchick (May 10, 2010)

Ten Mile Creek Kayaks in Frisco Colorado is were I do my shopping. Has a great selection of women's inventory, always seems to have fresh designs that I don't see else where. Staff is very knowledgeable and friendly.Sweet shop, cool vibe!!!


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## Cphilli (Jun 10, 2010)

Getting a pro deal is great and all, and you must be wicked bad-ass to get them and turn around to brag on the buzz about it. No pro deal can suck this!

Personally I make enough money in my job to buy a few new things every year, which I get from my local shop(Ten Mile Creek Kayaks). Matty at Ten Mile has always offered me competitive pricing that few can match. I like buying retail to get the service and warranties. Speaking of, Matty has gone above and beyond to make things right if gear is, "faulty."


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## eklars (Mar 28, 2006)

A small shop with an in store owner always helps. I've seen Matti give someone a boat upfront and then make payments with no collateral, outright give stuff to needy kayakers, and ordered me the exact LL Stomper I want at no extra charge and no deposit.

In Summit Ten Mile Kayak really is the center of the paddling community. Hell, if I need a paddling buddy I bring lunch into the shop and eat it till someone shows. I have yet to finish my food while waiting!


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## Kendrick (Jul 8, 2010)

Both my boats I bought used and found out about them online. I was picky about having a prijon pure and getting a good deal on it, so that limited where I could buy it. 

My first helmet and PFD which I still use, I bought as part of a package, used from the classifieds.

My last two sprayskirts, carbon paddle and most of my other miscellaneous brand-new gear is from Confluence Kayaks. I was looking at their used consignment stuff in earnest, but I just found a better deal elsewhere. When I'm in the market for a brand-new boat though, I will get it from Confluence. They're my neighborhood shop, and I just go there a lot. I am well aware I've paid a bit more for things than I would have online, but the difference in price is usually small. 

Bought a drysuit on clearance sale CK online and other misc. gear I couldn't find at Confluence at the time. $450 is hard to beat. I've been to this store in person a few times, when I was at BV. Usually I'm there with other people, and they buy stuff. Great location. Great website, too. 

My wooden paddle's from the person who made it in Oregon. If I could get a paddle of this quality locally, I definitely wood.


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## Brotorboat (Apr 14, 2009)

When I lived in Summit, I bought MOST of my gear from Ten Mile Creek Kayaks.


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## t up (Dec 11, 2011)

Ten mile creek kayaks!!
Matti has always gone above and beyond to make sure that what im getting is whats goin to work for me. I break everything,helmets,drytops,oarblades,paddles,shoes,on and on ,Matti does an excelent job keeping me on the water. If you live in the area or if you dont,Ten mile is legit.


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