# Does this seem like a good deal? 14 ft. star packge



## engine22 (Jun 18, 2008)

This will be my first summer in 6 years not working on the river, so its time to get my own setup. Unfortunately I still live on a rafting guide's budget, so a nice new setup isn't really an option. I live in Durango, and am looking for something around 14 ft. Just big enough to run things like Cataract, Westwater, Yampa, etc, but small enough for smaller rivers and town runs on the Animas. 

This guy has this boat listed on CL in the Phoenix area. He says its about 10 years old. The frame doesn't look like the greatest for multi-days, the cooler looks cheap, and it has no thwarts. Also, I have not heard very good reviews about Star rafts. Certainly don't see them in commercial use. He says it was always stored inside rolled, but 10 year old glued PVC scares me a bit. 

I may be able to get him down on price, but still wondering if you guys think it would be worth it. I'm leaning towards holding out and saving to buy a good hypalon setup that would last forever, but getting the itch bad to be on the river, and I'll be working as a wildland firefighter instead of a guide this year. Here is the link to the ad:

http://phoenix.craigslist.org/evl/boa/3704186336.html


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## idahofloater (Feb 23, 2011)

Its a lot of stuff but I gona say not so much a good deal. The issues I see are in the valves and just over all age. You are going to have a hard time finding replacement valves for that boat and I'm am sure they will need some attention in the next 2 year if not now! Looks like one is already missing a hard to find cap. If your guiding you might want thwarts for your customers, and a raft of that age requires tlc. That tlc adds up in $. I too would be leaning on holding out.


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## carvedog (May 11, 2005)

What kind of valves are they? I couldn't tell. Maybe you have some knowledge. 

I think it's not a bad deal. 14 foot boat and all that stuff?? 

Pretty sure you can into a brand new 14 foot RMR for the low 2ks. I tried one last summer and I thought it was an awesome boat. I still have my Maravia but I liked the RMR. 

The reason I am asking about the valves is that I am having new Leafields put in my Maravia. So I will have a few back if they are the same. A fellow up in Bozeman has spoken for two but that leaves two more. 

While at Maravia I noticed they are carrying RMR at Cascade now. Surprising to me as they are owned by Maravia. So I think RMR is a cut above the PVC China built boats you usually see. And they are welded. 

FWIW.


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## idahofloater (Feb 23, 2011)

carvedog said:


> What kind of valves are they? I couldn't tell. Maybe you have some knowledge.



99% sure that's an AD-2. My first boat was a star just like that one. It was a good boat and all. But with boat like Rocky Mountain out there, I would say save a few more bucks.


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## carvedog (May 11, 2005)

Well then that would be the one according to google. It said AD-2 is the one used in Maravia before 2000. It has a pain in the ass fairly flush cap and then it is far enough down in that it always seems to get a little water in the entrance to the valve. So you have to blow it out before pushing the pump in.

Edit to add:

Oops maybe not. AD-1 maybe?? Mine has six phillips screws that hold it in. Ad-2 has a hex cap screw

Mine is below not a great detail on the valve but you can see it.


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## idahofloater (Feb 23, 2011)

Not 100% sure but those don't look to be ad-2 valves. I don't have any experience with ad-1s. Sorry.. 

PS, I have never seen oar towers like those. nice!


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## carvedog (May 11, 2005)

idahofloater said:


> Not 100% sure but those don't look to be ad-2 valves. I don't have any experience with ad-1s. Sorry..
> 
> PS, I have never seen oar towers like those. nice!


Cy Wort before he started Cambridge Welding I think. That frame was sold to the Crabtree's when they ran Middle Fork River Tours and hails from the mid to late 80s. 

/endofthreaddrift.


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## AndTheLab (Mar 19, 2006)

I have a 95 star 16' very similar to this. This one appears to be painted. Mine is grey. It has been a good boat although i just upgraded this year. I dont think it is missing any valve covers, if it like mine they are military valves and very easy to replace. The pics aren't good enough to get a feel for the frame. Star boats are glued pvc but the only pvc issues i have had are with the d-rings. I have reglued quite a few of them. With all the extra gear i would say its an alright deal.


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## caverdan (Aug 27, 2004)

I have a friend who's older Star came apart at the seams. It seems like the older glued PVC boats tend to do this. I came across a similar deal..... several years ago, except the boat was an 80's white Maravia. The boat seams totally fell apart but I ended up with a lot of gear I still use to this day. Personally.....I'd pass on it.


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## stuntsheriff (Jun 3, 2009)

pretty sure it has leafield valves. get eight hundred- dollar bills and have at it.


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## spider (Jun 20, 2011)

carvedog said:


> Well then that would be the one according to google. It said AD-2 is the one used in Maravia before 2000. It has a pain in the ass fairly flush cap and then it is far enough down in that it always seems to get a little water in the entrance to the valve. So you have to blow it out before pushing the pump in.
> 
> Edit to add:
> 
> ...




I think our boats might be cousins. Big bomber oarlocks. I like the trailer frame


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## engine22 (Jun 18, 2008)

Thanks for all of the advice. I am trying to get a bit more info out of the guy before I make a decision. I have started looking at RM rafts, been hearing a lot of good things about them, and they're about $2500 brand spankin new for a 14 footer. After that, its looking like about another $1500 in gear to make a bomber multi-day rig, since I am basically starting with nothing. 4k for brand new everything isn't really so bad, but then I think for another 2k I could get a bomber hypalon boat that will last the rest of my life, where as PVC will at some point degrade. This setup just seemed like a pretty inexpensive way to get basically everything to start running trips tomorrow.


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## fourtyfloater (Aug 26, 2011)

There is a 13 ft vanguard on the buzz up in Dillon for for 3K. Much closer than PHX given you are in Ram country. Good luck!


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## verendus (Nov 4, 2012)

engine22 said:


> I think for another 2k I could get a bomber hypalon boat that will last the rest of my life, where as PVC will at some point degrade.


Somehow people think that Hypalon is more durable than PVC boats. Not all PVC boats are created equal. And not all Hypalon boats are made equal either. Hypalon may be easier to repair on the spot, but is not necessarily more durable than PVC. I enjoy the stiffness of PVC boats. See if you could find a whole setup instead of peace meal. You will save a lot. Another option would be RMR. Bomber construction, welded seams, laced-in floors, if you take care of them, they will outlive you.


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## theBoatPeople (Jun 19, 2012)

We have a fairly large page on the subject of pvc vs. rubber on our site.... if you have a couple hours! 
hypalon rafts vs pvc rafts 

A ten year old Star is going to be a bit dicey in terms of how much life is left in the boat. AndTheLab mentions a 1995 vintage Star that they are still using, which is great, but I have to say this is an exception and not the norm. Normally 14 - 15 years is about tops on glued pvc unless the boat has spent all it's time in a chilly environment. Even that would normally only add maybe 2 years. 

The problem with hunting for used rigs this time of year is that it tends to be more of a seller's market rather than a buyer's. Fall is always the best time to shop for used boats.


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## carvedog (May 11, 2005)

spider said:


> I think our boats might be cousins. Big bomber oarlocks. I like the trailer frame


Yours is 18 I think? Mine is a stretch Willi 2 which adds 10 inches to the length so just a touch under 17. Drop frame makes all the difference. I put the cooler back there with a couple of rolled up pads on there. Gives me a place to lean back on. Table over the front bay, big box in 2nd, side boxes are obvious and then the seat box. It is an old outfitter setup and I love it. 

Like the decking on your side rails. I have thought of that, but mine still breaks down easy and it is heavy enough already so I doubt I will do it.


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## fourtyfloater (Aug 26, 2011)

There is a 14 ft Hyside with frame, plus for $3500 in Frisco. On CL high Rockies section. Age of raft not listed so tough to say if good deal.


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## Learch (Jul 12, 2010)

Whitewater Raft 13 foot RICOR That one looks like a decent deal. I don't like fixed thwarts, but a 13 foot Riken is a really fun day boat. And that thing will last a long while. One of my paddling buddies has that same boat, he bought it in 1997. It's never had a problem. PS- I have no idea why the title is wrong, maybe they posted from an autocorrect phone?


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## spider (Jun 20, 2011)

My frame is welded solid so break down wont be happening. I have a double axle trailer that it will be riding on. I need to cut more slots in the side decking. How tall are your oar towers? how far off the frame is the top of your seat? How far forward in the rowers bay do your towers sit? How long of oars? Just wondering, not too many of us in round boats that big to question. Whats the eraser trick? 

For the OP I found that boat for under 2k w/o oars. Not the most versatile boat but I have a 13' too. Look for a used maravia they are bomber.

I have 10 days until I get to put her on the river. 



carvedog said:


> Yours is 18 I think? Mine is a stretch Willi 2 which adds 10 inches to the length so just a touch under 17. Drop frame makes all the difference. I put the cooler back there with a couple of rolled up pads on there. Gives me a place to lean back on. Table over the front bay, big box in 2nd, side boxes are obvious and then the seat box. It is an old outfitter setup and I love it.
> 
> Like the decking on your side rails. I have thought of that, but mine still breaks down easy and it is heavy enough already so I doubt I will do it.


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## engine22 (Jun 18, 2008)

Just went and looked at this boat: http://westslope.craigslist.org/spo/3709716714.html

Its over 20 years old, but it seriously looks brand new. It has always been stored inside and the guy pulled it out and put 303 on it once a year. It sounds like it was barely ever used. Anything I should be worried about because of the age of this raft? Its a hypalon boat, and it is my understanding that the older NRS boats were a little better material before they were made is South Korea.


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## Learch (Jul 12, 2010)

I think that would be a good deal with a frame, dry box, cooler, etc. But, you could buy a new RMR for that price and not have to question the boat. If you are gonna go used, I look for a package, like ready made. There are good deals that will pop up. It took me 2 years of waiting, but I got the deal I wanted used. Once you popped for that boat, you'd still need to purchase gear.


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## fourtyfloater (Aug 26, 2011)

That is not a small raft. What rivers will you be going on? Would expect the flows here in CO to be modest at best for at least the next few years given our currrent conditions. Would be a great multiday raft but will you have help on daytrips or will you be solo? How long of a drive was it from FC to Delores?


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## engine22 (Jun 18, 2008)

Well I guess I need to update my info. I live in Durango now so only about 40 min to Dolores. I ended up going for it. Got the guy down to 2k, didn't come with a frame but came with 3 oars and a bunch of other stuff. Pretty much only needs a frame to be ready for a 5 day trip. The boat did not have a scratch on it, and after talking to my friend who worked at Inflatable Technologies fixing every type of raft for years, he said this is basically a brand new boat because of how it had been stored and the material. Pretty much like buying a brand new NRS E150 at 1/3 the price.

I will be making a frame as I can make one better than NRS at about 1/4 the price. 

15 Ft is a little on the bigger side, but it will primarily be used as a multi-day rig (Westwater, Cataract, San Juan, Deso/Grey, Grand). Just rowed a 16ft boat down the San Juan at 500 cfs last week, so I don't think it will be too big. I'll also be using it for town runs on the Animas and possibly Upper. Its a little on the bigger side for that, but its the same size a lot of the companies use here. Also be taking my old man a some fishing trips every now and then. It is definitely on the bigger side for that, but it will make do.

All in all I am just stoked to have a boat now


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## cataraftgirl (Jun 5, 2009)

engine22 said:


> Well I guess I need to update my info. I live in Durango now so only about 40 min to Dolores. I ended up going for it. Got the guy down to 2k, didn't come with a frame but came with 3 oars and a bunch of other stuff. Pretty much only needs a frame to be ready for a 5 day trip. The boat did not have a scratch on it, and after talking to my friend who worked at Inflatable Technologies fixing every type of raft for years, he said this is basically a brand new boat because of how it had been stored and the material. Pretty much like buying a brand new NRS E150 at 1/3 the price.
> 
> I will be making a frame as I can make one better than NRS at about 1/4 the price.
> 
> ...


Congrats & welcome to the madness. Have a great summer on your new rig. Post up some pics of the boat & frame when you have it done on the "Raft Porn" thread.
KJ


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## fourtyfloater (Aug 26, 2011)

Sounds like you made a good call. Plus living in Durango you could resell it no problem if it is not right for you. I agree that you need to post some pics when you get it all set but not on raftporn, just a general post. That will do great on the Upper! Nice work.


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## Wounded Knee (Jul 5, 2011)

I bought a 2 year old, 15 foot long Star Super Bug in 2007. It got me down the Grand Canyon that year, followed by great trips on the Snake in Hell's Canyon, the Rogue twice, Main Salmon and Middle Fork Salmon. The raft is very stable in big water; easy to maneuver in shallow water and has never let me down. It still looks like new. I store it rolled up, but do clean it after every expedition and apply a fresh coat of 303 protectant. The photo is from a relatively high-water trip (for late July anyway) on the Rogue in 2011. 

If its still available and in good condition it looks like a great deal.


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