# What do you tow with?



## readNrun (Aug 1, 2013)

V6 would be fine. We tow with our Sienna over mountain passes and all over the west without issue. The kids love it as well. 

At the takeout at Westwater a few weeks ago, we were 1 of 3 sienna's de-rigging.

Of course - you would have to be happy with a minivan. But it's very useful for the other 98% of the time you are not towing


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## stuntsheriff (Jun 3, 2009)

06 tundra 4 door


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## seantana (Mar 5, 2015)

I tow with my 04 Grand Cherokee with the I6, it can be a little gutless going over mountain passes, but it hasn't let me down yet, and my trailer is fairly heavy as far as raft trailers go.


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## brendodendo (Jul 18, 2004)

09 Tacoma long bed crew cab. Fits the family(4), dog and all the gear. Tows great (3500 lbs).


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## 90Duck (Nov 19, 2012)

'04 Honda Pilot. It does great with our light trailer and just one boat. When we stack up two boats and gear for 4 or 5 and head to Idaho for a week long trip it starts to get a little stressed, but 11 seasons later, it's still doing just fine.


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## Paul7 (Aug 14, 2012)

One more kid than you went with the Sequoia newer model. Really like it and I average 15mpg loaded pulling trailer could be a lot worse.

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## J (Nov 6, 2003)

stuntsheriff said:


> 06 tundra 4 door


Nailed it.


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## mountaingirlscout (Jul 22, 2015)

We have the same setup as you (14' Rmr) I haul with my v6 manual tundra but we also haul with a Subaru occasionally. It's a pretty light rig, my v6 is rated for 5,500lbs so I barely notice when towing. 
Even on multiday adventures with frame, dry boxes, cooler, firewood and cases of beer, loads of room and plenty of power. 


SD


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## carvedog (May 11, 2005)

Read_N_Run said:


> V6 would be fine. We tow with our Sienna over mountain passes and all over the west without issue. The kids love it as well.
> 
> Of course - you would have to be happy with a minivan. But it's very useful for the other 98% of the time you are not towing


This for us in my wifes Sienna. It is a beast and more power than the six cylinder in my Ford. 
I have a 94 Explorer which works great most of the time and better ground clearance for beating. The Sienna has a 3,500 lb tow rating I think. Pretty shocked to read that. 

And seven seat belts. Great shuttle rig. Goes through tires pretty quick from what I've seen.


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## shoenfeld13 (Aug 18, 2009)

'05 Honda Pilot. 148,000 miles. At least 6,000 miles towing 1 or 2 fully loaded boats. With 2 kids and a dog it works well for us. Just about any modern van, suv, or pickup has plenty of power for towing a raft or two.


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## captishmael (Feb 8, 2008)

2002 Dodge Dakota 4 Dr w/ 4.7 V8 and a Topper.

So far, a great rig. Comparable power and gas mileage to my buddy's 4 Dr Tacoma. Very comfortable inside, have hauled 6 people Split Mtn takeout to Front Range which was tight but doable. I think a topper on a pickup is ugly, but it increases the usefulness dramatically. Typical load for me is two inflated boats on a trailer, 4 adults in the cab and the bed loaded heavy with coolers, boxes, water, etc. Dodge costs about half what a comparable Toyota costs and is maybe even more reliable, at least as comfortable. There, I said it, let the trash talk begin!

Peace,

the Capt


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## shappattack (Jul 17, 2008)

The aire craft carrier, 2001 Tundra 8 cylinder, with headers, upgraded chip, cold air intake, and after market tranny cooler among other mods carrying an aire SDP, aire puma, and 7 aire IKs and all gear for a 9 person 4 day trip.


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## Brotorboat (Apr 14, 2009)

99' Forester for 6 or 7 years now. Use to tow an Aire 156R now a 15' Wave Destroyer. Looking to upgrade to 2013 6 cylinder Outback in the next year or two, though.


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## Lebowski (Aug 19, 2015)

4.0 L V6 '13 Tacoma 4-door long bed with a topper and rack and it has no problem. Family of 3, big dog. Trailer weighs about 400 pounds. Room to spare in the back and the rack is there for a rocket box or a buddy's canoe if needed.


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## readNrun (Aug 1, 2013)

I want a convertible vehicle for towing. The tow capacity of a vehicle is a combination of it's actual weight, powerplant, cooling and a few other items. The two biggest elements of that are vehicle weight and powerplant. 

So, I could see having a removable ballast and an engine that can run 4 or 6 cylinders. Being that I tow maybe 5% of the time, the rest of the time it would run as a lighter more fuel efficient vehicle. Then when I tow, I would add the ballast and it would kick on the larger engine capacity.

I want a 4-banger or hybrid for around town and then be able to convert it to a Tundra/F-150/what-have-you for towing.


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## shappattack (Jul 17, 2008)

Here comes the Toyota tundra diesel next year!

Toyota Tundra to Get Cummins Diesel V-8 – News – Car and Driver | Car and Driver Blog


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## dafewillis (Jun 21, 2014)

Honda element. Definitely labors in the mountains, but we manage. Just the wife, our 6 year old little guy and I, towing a 16' DRE with a fishing frame.

I post mostly just to make the point that you may not need as much power/car as you think you do. That said, we are new car shopping and the next family vehicle will definitely be a 6 cylinder. :-D


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## Rich (Sep 14, 2006)

For day boating with a light trailer and a 12' cat, the Prius works fine.
Two week trips to Idaho with a bit more gear and I take a 3.0L minivan so I can sleep inside.


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## wyosam (May 31, 2006)

2010 V6 4dr Tacoma. Pull a Sawtooth welding trailer (with under deck storage) Trailer is about 1100 empty, haul a 14' Sotar, and trailer full of gear. Have done Deso with a couple other rafts rolled and loaded, 4 people and gear for 6 for a week. Lots of day trips with a 3 stack on top. Plenty of power, even in the mountains, and plenty of brakes, too (thats the big one, dont care how fast it will go, you have to be able to stop it safely). We tow enough to justify a bigger truck, but the Taco does a great job, and fits the parking lot at the grocery store better.


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## elkhaven (Sep 11, 2013)

I tow with a Silverado 1500HD, 4 door, shortbox or a 2010 Taco long bed crew cab, v6. The taco does fine, no issues with power, but the mileage drops to 12-14 mpg towing the raft and all our gear. 15' boat is a big sail behind the Toyota. Chevy gets 12 mpg - empty, full, hauling ass or limping along. I'd much rather road trip in the chevy as it's WAY more comfortable than the Toyota, but usually the mileage wins out. Going to a newer 3/4 ton ford in the near future, can't decide between gas or diesel - that or the half ton Ram diesel if no more problems creep up. 



shappattack said:


> Here comes the Toyota tundra diesel next year!
> 
> Toyota Tundra to Get Cummins Diesel V-8 – News – Car and Driver | Car and Driver Blog


I was originally waiting for the Tundra diesel, but if you look that article was from early 2014. There has really been little new discussed on it since, so I'll believe it when I see it.


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## protechie (Jun 16, 2005)

98 4Runner v6. I definitely lose some speed and power, but that's mostly due to the trailer I'm hauling being exceptionally heavy. Plenty of room for gear, people and animals. I think overall you would be most pleased with a v8, either suv or double cab truck, but a v6 will certainly get the job done and save some money both on initial purchase and fuel.


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## sledhooligan (Mar 12, 2009)

Have been around a couple 5.7 Tundras I was not impressed with the fuel milage or the towing capabilities. They had a lot of power just didn't haul the gear and trailer well.
If your looking for a mid size I'd look into a Ford Eco Boost. They seem to tow well and get great mileage. I'd get one with the 3.73 gears and tow mirrors. 3.53s will be ok but you'll be working the tranny a lot harder over the passes. I think they still offer a max tow package with 4.10s . My dad has an 04 f-150 with a max tow package with 4.10 gears, seven lug wheels bigger radiator and tranny cooler and a few other things. The truck pulls two stacked 16ft cats nice also does pretty good pulling a 8000lb camper. But if you not pulling a lot the max tow package with the 4.10 might be a little much.
Or just buy a real truck and get a four door long bed diesel.


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## Swank (Jun 20, 2009)

Here is how I haul my 16' RMR cat with 4 people in my truck. I can maintain 75mph through the mountains no problem.


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## Schutzie (Feb 5, 2013)

07 Toyota Tacoma. V6 auto.

Will tow anything I can get on the hitch. For a little ways anyway.
Good gas mileage for a truck, reliable (100,000 miles and zero problems), not expensive compared to anything else.

If you want to have the extra capacity go for the Tundra crew cab extended bed.

Or, sell your rig, make new friends who have boats, and buy a Honda.
All a matter of cost VS benefit


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## shappattack (Jul 17, 2008)

With my mods, I get minimum of 16 mpg towing a full trailer with the camper on and can haul ass as well.



shappattack said:


> The aire craft carrier, 2001 Tundra 8 cylinder, with headers, upgraded chip, cold air intake, and after market tranny cooler among other mods carrying an aire SDP, aire puma, and 7 aire IKs and all gear for a 9 person 4 day trip.


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## cataraftgirl (Jun 5, 2009)

2008 V6 Toyota 4-Runner. Hauls my smaller trailer, 14 foot raft, and gear likes it's not even there. We used it to tow my buddy's big trailer with his 16 foot raft, my 14 foot cat and all our gear from Utah to Oregon for a Rogue trip a few years ago. No problem. Towed like a champ and did a little better on gas than his V8 4-Runner would have. Enough room for 4 adult humans and a big chocolate Lab river dog to be comfortable.


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## flipper42 (Apr 8, 2011)

03 trailblazer Ext V6 3 row seating with a 8 foot trailer 14 foot raft


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## Andy H. (Oct 13, 2003)

Curently an '06 Outback wagon w/ the 2.5L engine. Before that I towed with a 94 Legacy wagon w/ the 2.2L engine which did just fine towing a fully-inflated and loaded raft on a modified SledBed tilt-bed aluminum trailer. With the Legacy: I've hauled a ton of stuff including kayaks and gear for multi-days. Cruising at 75 - 85 on the freeway, barely noticing the trailer until going up a hill, then dropping to 55 - 50 in 3rd on the steeper parts only. The wind drag of towing two rigged boats was about the only thing that really made a noticeable difference.

Don't let the tail wag the dog. I figured out that by having a car that gets 25 mpg (4 cyl) instead of 18 mpg (6 cyl), there's about a $5K gas cost savings over 100K miles of vehicle life - way more than enough to pay for a premium aluminum trailer. The Legacy was still towing just fine up til the end when it had 300K miles on it, carrying more gear on a rigged and loaded boat than shown in the photos of Shap's truck above. With a 2.2L four banger.

If you get a lighter trailer you won't need so much power up front to tow your boat and it'll pay for itself over the life of the vehicle. 

Here's the 2.2L Legacy, loaded for a multi-day trip.



-AH


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## shappattack (Jul 17, 2008)

Andy H. said:


> The Legacy was still towing just fine until it had 300K miles on it, carrying more gear on a rigged and loaded boat than shown in the photos of Shap's truck above


That all make sense and sounds good, but can you drive over logs or get in, and more importantly, back out of any place in the Owyhee basin upstream of Rome 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3blaSyCsrOY

Yes, thats me face down in the mud again!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2kp3ZWXOrY


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## PhilipJFry (Apr 1, 2013)

a V6 tacoma should work just fine, I see a ton of them hauling multiple rafts around here (Idaho) see a lot of guys with the 5.7L Tundra's too... I personally tow with a Chevy 2500 Suburban. with a 6.0L but I have 4 kids so a Tacoma or Tundra wasn't really an option. if I had two less kids, I'd probably be driving a Toyota.


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## sammyphsyco (Aug 15, 2012)

What ever you run get a good cooler for your transmission and change your fluid and filter often. Use a synthetic fluid, don't bitch about the price. New fluid and filter is way cheaper than a smoked tranny, and more convenient.


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## riverinstigator (Jun 13, 2013)

03 Chevy suburban with 4x4. Everything fits inside, and the 4x4 has gotten us out of some steep take outs

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## DanOrion (Jun 8, 2004)

+1 for 4-door tundras. Gen 1 gets better mileage and has adequate power. Gen 2 has passenger room for days...super nice for family trips.


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## Skikbum66 (Apr 5, 2014)

Dodge Ram Van 3500


Rich


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## Learch (Jul 12, 2010)

I Have towed with the 4.7 Dakotas and Durangos, they do okay. We had a 98 Sienna with 200K, and it towed a single loaded raft with a plenty of car camping gear in the bed of my utility trailer just fine. The mileage didn't suffer too much, and it would go over Mt. Hood (about 4400 ft elevation) at 55-60 with more power on tap, but I never pushed it. The only thing I didn't like about it was it was only front wheel drive, and that can be a pain in the ass on steep gravel ramps. I never got stuck, but I came close. That got totaled and now we have a 2002 Sequoia, we love it. Plenty of power, 15 mpg towing stacked rafts with overnight gear, and 4wd is very nice. I can easily fit 7 people, and 8 if I stack 3 kids in the 3rd row. I'm a big fan of Toyotas, my wife drove a Yukon Denali with the 6.0 liter (lots of power) but she like the interior and ride height of the Toyota better. I am longing for a 1st generation Tundra 4 door. 
Hey Shapp, what brand of header and edu upgrade did you get for your truck? My exhaust manifold is cracking, and your MPG claims sound better than what I'm getting


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## Learch (Jul 12, 2010)

Our Sienna in tow


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## BoscoBoater (Jul 11, 2006)

!995 Geo Tracker..... It adequately provides all the power a real man could ever need or want. 119 coked up horses on this bad boy STOCK straight from the factory... Sweet aluminum rims drop the unsprung weight for top notch cornering capability at speed.











Anything more is just a flagrantly obvious attempt at compensation for a diminished reproductive unit.



As you can see, I am totally secure in my manhood.....


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## SLVCampo (Jun 25, 2015)

Chevy Suburban V8 z71...

All you will ever need for outdoor anything! 


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## catwoman (Jun 22, 2009)

06 Toyota Tundra Double Cab with 4 full doors and a 6' bed. With two kids, you are going to want some serious cargo room, in the trailer or in the vehicle, or both.


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## yesimapirate (Oct 18, 2010)

2013 Limited 4Runner w/ 4.0 V6. Plenty of power. Decent gas mileage(15-17 with trailer). Transmission cooler came standard, and oversized engine radiator. I haven't put in a cold air intake yet, but I'm not sure it needs it. Really, zero worries when hauling the trailered boat. It also has 7 seat belts without being a minivan(no offense minivan'ers). 

Negatives:
It attract rocks to the front window like moths to a flame. 
And the guy in Japan that designed it must have zero knowledge of trailer lights. On every other vehicle known to man the lights receiver is right next to the hitch receiver. On this thing it's about 13 inches left of center and about 4 inches back under the bumper. Not a big deal, just poor design.


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## portercassidy (Jun 10, 2010)

Just because they have been mentioned a few times now.

My 2005 Toyota Tundra Doublecab Limited


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## AlanS (Jun 18, 2015)

'07 Honda Element. It gets a tiny bit slower going up steep grades pulling a load, but not that bad. Even in the heat of Summer, the engine stays cool.


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## Treswright3 (May 20, 2013)

If you live in colorado than you are certainly going to want more power for the passes. Yes it can be done with smaller V6's but the passes suck. I would go V8 if your in CO.


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## Treswright3 (May 20, 2013)

I tow with a Toyota Landcruiser, mines actually a Lexus LX470 but there are the same car. You can pick up a 99'-07 land cruiser or LX470 for fairly cheap and they are well known to be some of the best cars ever made. I have owned 3 Landcruisers and I will always have them, my last one had 250,000 miles and I still sold it for a good price.

I would not recommend a Tundra at all. Look up all the Truck articles and they always rate the Tundra's a distant 4th out of the pickup brands. They are over priced, and have horrible gas milage and they are not near as nice as the American trucks. The Ford F-150 is by far the nicest truck out there, that Eco Boost engine is incredible. They feel nicer than a BMW too. If I was buying a truck there is no doubt I would get an F-150 4 door eco boost.


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## skiersteve3 (Apr 29, 2011)

My 2002 WRX wagon with 160000 miles. Tows my 5 x 8 trailer fully loaded with my 15' boat (deflated) and all the required gear and passengers for a week no problem. I pass vehicles up Parley's with ease, drove all the way out to the Rogue, routinely run Westwater, all while getting over 20mpg. Probably have about 6000 towing miles it. It may not be ideal but I still get on the river.


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## the_dude (May 31, 2006)

I used to drive a Tacoma before we had kids. It pulled the raft and anything we wanted to take with us into and out of the hills. Took it elk hunting, on remote fishing trips, etc. You name it that truck did it and never once got stuck or failed to start. Only drawback was I struggled to get more than 20 mpg even after a full tune up.

In 2009 my wife had our first kid, and in 2012 our 2nd was born. In 2009 I bought a used 03 Dodge 2500 w/ a Cummins turbo diesel w. 54k miles on it. It hauls us plus our 2 kids plus anything we put in it or tow with it, and it gets way better mileage than my Tacoma ever thought about. On a recent trip into the hills, I got a bit over 24 mpg. 

Not the best daily driver due to its size, so that's why I bike to work as often as possible.


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## Riverbound (Oct 3, 2013)

My tundra got horrible milage so sold it and currently looking at Chevy


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## cmharris (Apr 30, 2013)

*Dodge Hemi*

2012 Dodge Ram with a 5.7 Hemi. It has an eco mode which engages automatically when the load on the engine is light. I get about 21.5 on the highway without a trailer or with a small, light utility trailer. The mileage suffers when I stack two boats on my boat trailer and part of the top boat is exposed to the wind above the cab. I also notice the difference is a big head wind but that would probably be the case with any vehicle. I looked at all of the engine possibilities when I purchased this vehicle but concluded that the v-6 or smaller v-8 options don't save that much fuel but they do have significally less torque. The take away for me — modern V-8s get decent mileage and have the ability to handle trailers and mountain passes, if needed.


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## Swank (Jun 20, 2009)

Riverbound said:


> My tundra got horrible milage so sold it and currently looking at Chevy



We just got a new 4x4 F150 ecoboost here at work and I love it. If I were in the full sized truck market that would be my hands down choice.


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## mania (Oct 21, 2003)

Swank said:


> We just got a new 4x4 F150 ecoboost here at work and I love it. If I were in the full sized truck market that would be my hands down choice.


2.7L or 3.5L?


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## swedgen (Mar 29, 2011)

2015 Dodge Cummins. Tow anything over any pass into or out of any take out or put in. And still get 20 miles to the gallon. 


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## Sherpa9543 (Jul 22, 2014)

Donkey. 


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## yesimapirate (Oct 18, 2010)

Sherpa9543 said:


> Donkey.


Interesting. The Sherpa needs a donkey. 

https://youtu.be/UPl-zGNaCyA?t=63


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## MSW9 (May 1, 2008)

4 door long bed Tacoma


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## Pinned (Apr 19, 2012)

Treswright3 said:


> I tow with a Toyota Landcruiser, mines actually a Lexus LX470 but there are the same car. You can pick up a 99'-07 land cruiser or LX470 for fairly cheap and they are well known to be some of the best cars ever made. I have owned 3 Landcruisers and I will always have them, my last one had 250,000 miles and I still sold it for a good price.
> 
> I would not recommend a Tundra at all. Look up all the Truck articles and they always rate the Tundra's a distant 4th out of the pickup brands. They are over priced, and have horrible gas milage and they are not near as nice as the American trucks. The Ford F-150 is by far the nicest truck out there, that Eco Boost engine is incredible. They feel nicer than a BMW too. If I was buying a truck there is no doubt I would get an F-150 4 door eco boost.


The newer Tundra is a pig but the older has the same engine and transmission as your LX. 

The ecoboost is a nice engine and packs a punch. I would gladly drive a new F150 if they weren't so $$.


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## Treswright3 (May 20, 2013)

Pinned said:


> The newer Tundra is a pig but the older has the same engine and transmission as your LX.
> 
> The ecoboost is a nice engine and packs a punch. I would gladly drive a new F150 if they weren't so $$.


This is true, I am a huge Toyota fan and I have always had them but if I were looking at a newer model truck I would go Ford. I wanted to buy a ford before I got my newest land cruiser (2000 model) but I didn't want to drop that kind of cash! I dont mind spending a little more in gas knowing that I paid so much less for the car up front.


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## Paul7 (Aug 14, 2012)

FYI there is a new tacoma coming out this fall with an improved v6.

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## Electric-Mayhem (Jan 19, 2004)

There is also the Nissan Titan with a brand new design Cummins V8 diesel coming out too. I think its butt ugly (especially compared to the original Titan which I think is one of the best looking full sized trucks) with its huge grill and headlights, but its still an interesting option.

I'm very new to raft ownership(I've been a whitewater guy since I was kid, but just bought my first multi-day raft). I'll be hauling mine with my 99' Ford F-250 with the 7.3 Powerstroke diesel. It is complete overkill for towing a raft, but it does pretty well mileage wise and hardly feels the trailer behind you. I haven't decided yet whether I'll be towing or just carrying everything in the back, but both will work.


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## brendodendo (Jul 18, 2004)

Why can't we get this here: LINK> 2016 Toyota Hilux

"The larger 2.8 litre engine is rated at 177 horsepower at 3,400 rpm and 450 Nm of torque at 1,600-2,400 rpm (reportedly 420 Nm with a manual), while the 2.4 litre does 160 horsepower and 400 Nm. However different tunes may be used in different countries and/or different models.

The new GD engines will feature common rail direct injection at 1,350 bar and a variable geometry turbocharger. They will be mated to a six-speed / automatic gearbox."


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## whiskey_river (Mar 2, 2015)

Ha, that thing looks like a mix between a Subaru and a Prius.


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## jamwin33 (May 20, 2008)

Gotta agree with Swedgen - Ram 2500 with the Cummins - five boats (2 round boats rolled underneath), five people and all the gear. Set the cruise at 75 mph head to the river. 15 mpg loaded, 20 mpg otherwise.


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## readNrun (Aug 1, 2013)

I think it's funny how everyone ignored my previous post. We're talking 18-22MPG for most of these vehicle (sans some of the 4 bangers) when not towing which for most folks is probably 98% (or higher) of the time.

Would it be such a niche market for a vehicle capable of towing at a lower MPG but then being super efficient around town for the 98% of the driving most of us do?

Yes, I use my vehicles for hauling lumber, sod, landscaping materials and such, but that's still a VERY small amount of time. 

I'm looking for a LARGE differential in the towing vs. non-towing efficiency. And yes, I know this is a hypothetical discussion, but how about a vehicle that can tow ~3000lbs without flinching at 15 MPG but run around town at 40+ MPG. 

I'm sure Volkswagen can come up with something like this


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## shappattack (Jul 17, 2008)

Read_N_Run said:


> I'm looking for a LARGE differential in the towing vs. non-towing efficiency. And yes, I know this is a hypothetical discussion, but how about a vehicle that can tow ~3000lbs without flinching at 15 MPG but run around town at 40+ MPG.


Those do exist, or nearly so, just not in the US. Some of the top of the line small block diesels get serious gas mileage even when towing huge.


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## CROE (Jul 29, 2008)

2006 Honda Pilot with trailer and 14 foot Hyside inflated fishing rig with gear underneath (not really too heavy)....75 miles per hour highway, 20 mpg with 4 people and overnight trip gear


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## bucketboater (Jul 9, 2012)

markfortcollins said:


> Hi there. So we are new to rafting this year and just purchased a new raft about a month ago (14' RMR). We are also in the market for a truck... I'm contemplating what type of rig will work best. We are a family of 4 and intend to use the raft for day/weekend trips with a few longer haul multi-days mixed in. I love Toyota's and drove a Tacoma for many years. I am just unsure if a V6 will be good enough pull the raft/trailer/gear/passengers, etc... I am debating a V8 type vehicle (Titan/Tundra) or a V6 (Tacoma/Frontier). Thoughts? Suggestions? I'm open to other crew cab vehicle recommendations for rafting lifestyle too. Thanks!


I have 09 tundra 5.7 and my buddy has 08 Tacoma crew cab with a 4.0. With the same amount of gear we get the same mpg, 15. Its a bit crowded with 4 people but has no problem pulling a loaded trailer. For a family of four and gear I think your biggest issue will be space not the engine with a Tacoma/tundra.


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## gmmccalden (Apr 23, 2013)

I have a. O7 tacoma access cab with a v6 6-speed manual. Usually tow my 14'cat fully rigger on an aluminum sled trailer and don't even feel it. Loaded it up with two boats worth of gear and drove the 14 hours to idaho for mfs this year and it was a little bogged on the passes but not too bad.

I also pull a 12' enclosed trailer for work quite a bit loaded with concrete countertops and furniture. It's a bit much but always does fine going to telluride, etc. 

You would be fine with a v6 taco. And they are killer trucks for just about everything you would ever need.


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## gmmccalden (Apr 23, 2013)

But whatever you do get the long bed. Short bed is so tiny....can't even put your bike back there....


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## Wadeinthewater (Mar 22, 2009)

Read_N_Run said:


> I'm looking for a LARGE differential in the towing vs. non-towing efficiency. And yes, I know this is a hypothetical discussion, but how about a vehicle that can tow ~3000lbs without flinching at 15 MPG but run around town at 40+ MPG.





shappattack said:


> Those do exist, or nearly so, just not in the US. Some of the top of the line small block diesels get serious gas mileage even when towing huge.


MB GLK250. Gets 38-40 mpg highway and 34+ mixed city/highway. It is rated for 3500 lbs towing. Now if I can just convince my wife to let me take her car on a river trip I'll let you know the mileage while towing.


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## shappattack (Jul 17, 2008)

Wadeinthewater said:


> MB GLK250. Gets 38-40 mpg highway and 34+ mixed city/highway. It is rated for 3500 lbs towing. Now if I can just convince my wife to let me take her car on a river trip I'll let you know the mileage while towing.


 Toyota should throw that motor in a 4 door long bed Taco!


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## lll100 (May 11, 2011)

94 Dodge 1 ton Van. Not a daily driver. Bought it at a GSA Auction with 80K miles in 2002 for $8K. Put air ride assist bags on rear axel and added 2 tranny coolers. Currently has 164K miles. Only gets used to haul gear and the occasional move. Gets 10 mpg but usually hauls 10 folks, 3 rafts, 1 cat and 3 dogs. Keeps the shuttle costs down and its a party.


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## Learch (Jul 12, 2010)

shappattack said:


> Toyota should throw that motor in a 4 door long bed Taco!


They do, but it's called Hilux and it ain't sold here. Toyota said it would cost too much to make it worth the public's while or Toyota's effort. The Tacoma is already at a high price point, the Diesel engine would put it over the top. (Or so they say) Ram is having great success with the 3.0 Ecodiesel in the 1500, and those are getting around 28 mpg in 4wd models. Ram has increased production and sales forecasts on those trucks twice now.


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## Jim S (May 26, 2015)

I just bought a 2015 Tundra (5.7). It's overkill for one boat with gear, but nice if you are towing a trailer with multiple boats on it. I think a v6 truck is plenty for 1 boat and gear and people. I'd even consider using a Subaru for that load. 

As mentioned above the Tundra is the clear loser on MPG when compared to other trucks. I seriously shopped Chevy, Ford (EcoBoost) and Dodge (EcoDiesel), but I'm a Toyota guy at heart. Have had great experiences with all of my Toyota's: 2008 Tundra (5.7), 2004 Tundra, 2002 Tundra, 1997 4Runner, 1992 4Runner, 1998 Tacoma and 1993 pickup.


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## abron (Nov 19, 2004)

2007 4DLB... 
:mrgreen:


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## spokanefisherman (Sep 28, 2018)

markfortcollins said:


> Hi there. So we are new to rafting this year and just purchased a new raft about a month ago (14' RMR). We are also in the market for a truck... I'm contemplating what type of rig will work best. We are a family of 4 and intend to use the raft for day/weekend trips with a few longer haul multi-days mixed in. I love Toyota's and drove a Tacoma for many years. I am just unsure if a V6 will be good enough pull the raft/trailer/gear/passengers, etc... I am debating a V8 type vehicle (Titan/Tundra) or a V6 (Tacoma/Frontier). Thoughts? Suggestions? I'm open to other crew cab vehicle recommendations for rafting lifestyle too. Thanks!


Tacoma will be fine. I tow with a highlander when the kids bring friends, or a gladiator when its just the fam and the dogs.


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## protechie (Jun 16, 2005)

Recently switched from a 1998 4Runner to a 2014 Sequoia. I pull a RMR 14' on a steel snowmobile type trailer, and also sometimes pull a pretty heavy steel utility trailer with more gear loaded up on it. I'm sure the newer model 4Runners have a little more oomph, but my 1998 was definitely weak going over mountain passes. That was one of the main reasons I decided to finally get a new rig. The Sequoia was awesome this summer and tows the raft great. Also now using it to tow a smallish travel trailer. Having had both now, I'm definitely happy I spent a little more for the bigger engine, cargo space, interior, etc. on the Sequoia.


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## T.O.Mac (Jun 6, 2015)

I moved from a 2006 Trailblazer with the 6 cyl engine, and it would just barely pull a loaded trailer up and down some of Utah's roads...when I transitioned to a 2019 Ford F150 with the ecoboost 3.5, I was able to go the speed limit up and down the road, and went up from 9 mpg towing to 18, and about 21 mpg unloaded


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## pilom (Dec 28, 2010)

All these trucks make me laugh. I tow a 16'er in Colorado with a Pontiac Vibe. It has a manual transmission so it is rated to tow 1500 pounds (unlike the automatic). Raft and trailer weigh 1300. Sure it has almost no torque so I rev it pretty high it going up the passes in Colorado and I'm extremely conservative with downshifting and going slow coming back down the passes and my top comfortable speed is only about 68mph even if I'm very particular about loading it correctly (10% on the hitch, weight as close to the trailer axel as possible etc), but I also get 25mpg when towing and 34 when not. It also only cost me like $6k about 100k miles ago. Best car I've ever owned.


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## tBatt (May 18, 2020)

3.6L v6 ram 1500. 22mpg empty, 17mpg towing a single axle trailer with a fully loaded 16’ and a 15’ with just the frame, 4 people and gear in the truck.


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## IDriverRunner (Aug 18, 2015)

I love it when old threads randomly get brought up and everyone just rolls with it! haha

I'll join right in... I tow with a Yukon XL. It has the 6.2l with tons of power. Very comfortable interior. I've taken to many places that I probably shouldn't.


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## Jim Bob (May 19, 2020)

98 3/4 ton Dodge Cummins, because it is what I have. I don't have any issues with it and the 8' bed is great for hauling gear.


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## DidNotWinLottery (Mar 6, 2018)

2018 Power Wagon. I will get there!


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## athelake (Dec 3, 2014)

Dodge 3500. We get a put in and take out shower. It gets 14-16 mpg while towing 2-3 boats in Idaho.


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## tBatt (May 18, 2020)

IDriverRunner said:


> I love it when old threads randomly get brought up and everyone just rolls with it! haha


Saw that right after I posted. Oops.


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## ACheateaux (Dec 3, 2008)

2000 E350 7.3l powerstroke aka the “GnaRV”

















She’s been to Cabo and back twice, all over the Rockies through nasty snow and to the coast a bunch. Just turned 225k. Gets 17mpg no matter what.


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## T1NMAN (Feb 11, 2021)

2007 E 350 5.4 5:30 gears ,custom tune , custom lift and aluminum high top , fridge for the cold beer running of solar . i dont check the gas mileage lol. hauls all our crew and gear .


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## Whitewater Worthy Equip (Dec 11, 2013)

There is no kill like overkill!!!!!


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## 90Duck (Nov 19, 2012)

That old '04 Honda Pilot I posted about back on page 1 had 3rd gear go out in the transmission pulling the boat home from a Rogue trip in 2018, leaving us only 1 week to find a replacement for a Middle Fork trip launching the following weekend. Our new haul vehicle is Finn, a 2018 Toyota 4runner TRD Off Road. It's serious bro-mobile, but I love it.


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## azpowell (Aug 14, 2014)

I'm a big fan of the overkill myself... this was a weekend trip over to glamis for some high octane fun....pretty stoked on spending a week up at westwater this year running laps... the sxs easily comes off and the raft pulls plenty fine... stoked to get the snout out for a test run this next week. Its nice to be able to launch an entire trip with one vehicle


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## Andy H. (Oct 13, 2003)

OK, well this thread has been around long enough that I've upgraded what I tow with. A few years ago hail totaled my 2006 Suby and I upgraded to a 4-cyl. 2013 Outback ('13 - 14' was the last model that had a stick) - really clean car with fewer than 30K miles when I got it. Since 2018 I've been hauling the same trailer I've had since about '04, and boat, fully loaded with people and gear, over the passes with no trouble. This is it heading back up from Hecla for another lap with some friends, I would be wary of taking it on a long trip with multiple inflated boats stacked like this due to the wind drag, but it does just fine for me with just one inflated raft, probably would do fine with a second if I really wanted to run a long trip like that.


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## tBatt (May 18, 2020)

azpowell said:


> I'm a big fan of the overkill myself... this was a weekend trip over to glamis for some high octane fun....pretty stoked on spending a week up at westwater this year running laps... the sxs easily comes off and the raft pulls plenty fine... stoked to get the snout out for a test run this next week. Its nice to be able to launch an entire trip with one vehicle


Are you dropping the sxs and trailer at the take out, then hauling the raft back to the top with that setup?


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## azpowell (Aug 14, 2014)

tBatt said:


> Are you dropping the sxs and trailer at the take out, then hauling the raft back to the top with that setup?


Drop the 5thwheel at a camping spot up the road a little ways... take truck and sxs to put in and rig cat boat...run shuttle down to Sisco drive sxs back to put in... run lap on river...throw raft on trailer and drive back to camp.... rinse and repeat...


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## 2tomcat2 (May 27, 2012)

2018 Ford F150 and 2013 Toyota Tacoma


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## NativeDiver (Jun 7, 2017)

shappattack said:


> The aire craft carrier, 2001 Tundra 8 cylinder, with headers, upgraded chip, cold air intake, and after market tranny cooler among other mods carrying an aire SDP, aire puma, and 7 aire IKs and all gear for a 9 person 4 day trip.



Glad to see you were not in a line 25 vehicles to get your raft out at Wildcat Bridge!!!!


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## NativeDiver (Jun 7, 2017)

Drive by a Chevy dealership and see what they have on the lot- then buy the largest engined truck they have! Drive it for a year and repeat.


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## Jim Bob (May 19, 2020)

We just got a new rig, we are replacing our '98 Cummins with a 2016 Chevy Colorado Duramax. I haven't hooked up the trailer yet, but I don't expect any issues. The Diesel Colorado has a tow rating of 7,700 lbs!


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## NativeDiver (Jun 7, 2017)

Jim Bob said:


> We just got a new rig, we are replacing our '98 Cummins with a 2016 Chevy Colorado Duramax. I haven't hooked up the trailer yet, but I don't expect any issues. The Diesel Colorado has a tow rating of 7,700 lbs!
> View attachment 64044


Nice truck- great engine, and I am a fan of the color!!!

Good Work


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## Wadeinthewater (Mar 22, 2009)

Wadeinthewater said:


> MB GLK250. Gets 38-40 mpg highway and 34+ mixed city/highway. It is rated for 3500 lbs towing. Now if I can just convince my wife to let me take her car on a river trip I'll let you know the mileage while towing


My wife lets me take her car now. Gets about 30 mpg towing this mess to Idaho and back. A little better than that hauling the 14 ft raft from Eugene to the Rogue.


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

Jim Bob said:


> We just got a new rig, we are replacing our '98 Cummins with a 2016 Chevy Colorado Duramax. I haven't hooked up the trailer yet, but I don't expect any issues. The Diesel Colorado has a tow rating of 7,700 lbs!
> View attachment 64044


I have a 2018 Colorado with the little DuraMax, it tows my boats across the res at 80MPH, up and down the mountain passes and you hardly know anything is behind you. The exhaust brake holds things back nicely. Couple that with 35MPG and it's a winner all the way around. 









Note that the boat is fully loaded (to the gills) for a Grand trip...


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## duct tape (Aug 25, 2009)

Wow, my 17 F150 (gas, not diesel) gets 20-22 and I thought that was good.


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

duct tape said:


> Wow, my 17 F150 (gas, not diesel) gets 20-22 and I thought that was good.


And for what it's worth, I believe the towing capacity of the Colorado is about double of your F-150, but specifications change from year to year, especially along the Ford line


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## tBatt (May 18, 2020)

Initial purchase price is big, too.
I strongly considered a Colorado Duramax, but you can buy a whole lot of fuel for the $12,000 difference in price. With my dismal income, I wasn't about to make $180 more in monthly payments to save $70 a month in fuel costs. Underwriters agreed, and wouldn't qualify me for a $35k loan. Also, I can sleep two in my bed without going diagonal. I'll likely be kicking myself in the pants in 5 years when my transmission fails at 150k, but that's a Future Ted problem. Future Ted likely won't be living of a ski resort salary.

I'm likely hauling 500# in the bed, a 600# trailer, and 1800# with a fully loaded 16' and and an empty 14' double stack. 3000# isn't even close to the GCVWR of my v6 ram.


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

You play the hand you're dealt, I worked in the ski industry for 10 years as a snowcat operator, I feel your pain, although I was never so poor that I had to drive a Ford... I guess maybe my priorities were a little different. Good luck on making it to 150K before you need a new transmission! There will probably be many more things requiring attention before that, but I wish you luck!


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## tBatt (May 18, 2020)

MNichols said:


> You play the hand you're dealt, I worked in the ski industry for 10 years as a snowcat operator, I feel your pain, although I was never so poor that I had to drive a Ford... I guess maybe my priorities were a little different. Good luck on making it to 150K before you need a new transmission! There will probably be many more things requiring attention before that, but I wish you luck!


I had a Ford before my Ram. That hog got 13mpg, on a good day.

It was an ‘08 3/4 ton from Vermont with 175k and rust holes big enough to put my head thru.

One day I’ll join the duramax bowtie club, but not today!


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

Yeah, but the ram would go 300k miles.. perhaps a rust bucket, but 300k?


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