# San Juan - low water questions



## DeeGardiner (Jun 18, 2009)

We have a permit for the San Juan May 10. We were expecting relatively high water, but it has been dropping like a rock. It is now down to about 1000 cfs and the forecast calls for down around 400-600 cfs during the week.

We launch at Sand Island and take out at Clay Hills. We have allocated 6 river days, but probably won't launch until early afternoon on the 10th and we hope to be off by noon on the 15th. That gives us 4 full days and 2 half days.

Questions:
1) With low water, can we make it in 4 full days plus 2 half days? Will it give us time to enjoy the canyon and side hikes? I realize wind plays a big factor, but wanted to know if we are doomed from the start.

2) We will have one 14' raft, one 16' raft, and one duckie. Medium load on the rafts. Will the low water be a problem for the rafts? Rocks, sand bars, etc.

3) Any advice to share for a low water trip?

Thanks.


----------



## Beardance42 (May 12, 2008)

We're launching on the 9th, and I think (hope) your forecast is a bit too pessimistic. The Animas is spiking at Silverton and the Four Corners flow should kick back up by Friday.

It's a shame there won't be a dam release this season, but as long as it stays warm in the SJ's, the flow should rebound. The dam is releasing a steady 500cfs and the Animas won't drop to 0 (  ) , so my suspicion is that we've hit a floor here. 

Fingers crossed. If it doesn't come up a fair bit while you're out there (we're out there, I should say), plan to scout Goverment. PITA, but not a big deal.


----------



## WestSlopeWW (Jun 26, 2008)

We just got out at Clay Hills yesterday. The float from Slickhorn out is a complete PITA because of the silt deposits. My raft was dragging bottom much of the time, and I had to get out and pull it many times. I would say the level was about 1250. If it goes down much more, you will be pulling the entire stretch.

Government was boney, but not too bad. Slickhorn Rapid is non-existant due to silt deposits.


----------



## DeeGardiner (Jun 18, 2009)

Here is the website where I got my forecast:

SAN JUAN - BLUFF, NR (BFFU1)

The forecast has gone up some since I posted earlier this morning.


----------



## bucket52 (Apr 26, 2010)

*San Juan Trip*

We ran the full stretch back in mid March in two duckies loaded to the gills, and we took 6 river days, with 5 of those being full days...the river was flowing at 1200-1400 then. I will seccond what a previous poster had made stating that the bottom 13 miles are terrible...you will have to drag boats pretty much regardless of flow.

We had to drag the duckies a number of times, even in duckies (though they were loaded to the max.)

Hope the trip is sweet for you guys, check out the John's canyon camp-site if you can at mile 59 i believe. Also Honnaker trail is a blast at mile 45...plan at least 3 hours for a full bottom to top and down hike...amazing views of Monument Valley.

With your time, I would plan to only spend one night on the upper, shoot to get past Mexican Hat the afternoon/ evening of the second day for a better experience in the lower canyon.

Scout Government regardless of level, but it is passable even in low water, only one real clean route.

Good Luck, have fun!

MN


----------



## Cutch (Nov 4, 2003)

We ran it in December at around 800 and didn't have to drag the rafts at all on the paddle out because it was plenty deep in the main flow. But, we had frozen eddies and banks which made it easy to see where to line up. At 1250 we all ended up dragging once or twice because we couldn't see the sandbars and mainflow. 

So, dragging isn't mandatory at all, but can be likely.

We made the 800cfs trip in 3.3 days... barely. Five days at 1250 was easy with ample time to hike, sleep in, etc.


----------



## oarframe (Jun 25, 2008)

WSWW - did you hapen to take a look at the remains of trimble camp or at ojeto? was wondering if a beach was redeveloping at trimble or how the mud flat at ojeto was.


----------



## WestSlopeWW (Jun 26, 2008)

oarframe said:


> WSWW - did you hapen to take a look at the remains of trimble camp or at ojeto? was wondering if a beach was redeveloping at trimble or how the mud flat at ojeto was.


Yeah, there is still nothing at Trimble. The place is totally destroyed with boulders everywhere. We did camp at Oljeto. The mouth of the creek is a muddy mess, but we pulled up on the rock just downstream and there is plenty of room to easily unload.

The road out CH is in really good shape, it has been worked on in the past few days. We made it easily with 2WD pick-up and trailer.


----------



## wreckoftheairefitzgerald (Jul 11, 2008)

Hey guys, our group is also doing SI to CH launching on the 10th. Wow I hope the flow picks up. On past trips we usually found the deepest channel up close to the riverbank down by Clay Hills. It may be on either side of the river though, and getting stuck on a sand bar while crossing over is common. Might be a good trip to pack light.


----------



## ngeoym (Jun 13, 2007)

Look at the animas gauge add 48 hours and i think you should be fine. With 70 degree temps predicted all week in Durango and the inevitable increase in flows coming, I suspect that you will have plenty of water!


----------



## Beardance42 (May 12, 2008)

I agree, ngeoym. The Animas gauges are spiking happily right now, and as long as the temps stay up, it should rebound to 1500+ cfs by Sunday. (find me some wood to knock on!) 

My source in Bluff also thinks that we've probably seen the floor, but I feel bad for the folks who launched two or three days ago.


----------



## wildh2onriver (Jul 21, 2009)

I ran it a couple of years ago when the river dropped to 350 cfs 2 days prior to taking out. 18' cat was no big deal, though, I had to push/pull a few times. The self bailers had the least amount of trouble because of the sb floor flotation. I wouldn't hesitate to run it at those flows--but I would take a sb raft.

Government rapid is a must scout at low flows--the route is hard to see.


----------



## DeeGardiner (Jun 18, 2009)

Thanks for the all the excellent input everyone! My confidence level is on the rise! Both of our rafts are self-bailers, which should help. Now we just need a week without wind.


----------



## pasta (May 17, 2006)

*sj low*

River is runnable as low as 350. Comfortable @750ish, Only problems are Ledge, Hard pull off the wall. Not impossible. One layover at that level (below 1,ooo) Government is the real problem. Straight ahead and ROWIN" is the way to do it. Right down the middle. Just right then left. 
Anything over 1500 is straight forward.
Once you come around the corner @ slickhorn your on the LAKE. 
Past Grand Gulch it gets really braided. Anything over 2,ooo you;ll be ok. under that????
Although under 750cfs. It;s actually easier. Cause you can read the water.( If ya know what yer doin) 
My advice, Do the first strech in 2 days. Then make it past Mex Hat. continue to the first loop camp.lay-over then make it to johns. etc...


----------



## ch678 (May 6, 2007)

This should be fun for a May 9th launch. Ugh!!! Dave, don't tell Sharon. LOL


----------



## rivermanryan (Oct 30, 2003)

Something is not right with the CBRFC models on the Animas and San Juan reaches. I am going to contact them to see if I can get the problems resolved. I have an idea of what the problem may be.

Regardless, flow on the San Juan will be above 500 cfs and likely much higher with the Animas. The problem is that my model uses the Animas at Farmington forecast to predict downstream flows on the San Juan and it is that part of my model that doesn't look right. I'll update this if I find out anything.


----------



## Beardance42 (May 12, 2008)

Thank you sir!

Since Durango is at 1700 right now, how soon should we be seeing a spike at Four Corners, which is still showing 800-900?


----------



## WestSlopeWW (Jun 26, 2008)

How much water is getting pumped out at A-LP?


----------



## ngeoym (Jun 13, 2007)

If you look at the gauge at durango: USGS Real-Time Water Data for USGS 09361500 ANIMAS RIVER AT DURANGO, CO

and then the new gauge below the pump station: USGS Real-Time Water Data for USGS 09362520 ANIMAS RIVER BLW DURANGO PUMP PLANT NR DURANGO, CO

It looks like they are taking 110 CFS.


----------



## rivermanryan (Oct 30, 2003)

The 6-10 day forecast from NOAA is showing below average temperatures, which is driving down the forecasted flows. In my opinion this maybe too much of an influence, but it doesn't appear to be a bust. Don't count on a lot of water.


----------



## rivermanryan (Oct 30, 2003)

WestSlopeWW said:


> How much water is getting pumped out at A-LP?


A-LP is taking approximately 285 cfs right now, which is full capacity for the pumping plant. Minimum bypass flow for this time of year is 225 cfs, but more is going downstream because of the higher flow in the river.

Animas-La Plata Project Home Page - Upper Colorado Region


----------



## rivermanryan (Oct 30, 2003)

Beardance42 said:


> Since Durango is at 1700 right now, how soon should we be seeing a spike at Four Corners, which is still showing 800-900?


From Navajo Dam, it usually takes 2 days to see an influence at the Four Corners gage, so my guess is 2-2.5 days from Durango to Four Corners. Bluff would be about 3-3.5 days.


----------



## BackCountry (Nov 22, 2009)

As other posters has said the last 18 miles from Slickhorn sucks. At 1200 - 1500 it is hard to see the main channel. The water flows deepest along the banks, sometimes switching from one side to the other. Did a bit of pushing after choosing the wrong rout.

Government Rapid is bony at low water. One line for a raft. Scout it. Hug the left side of the upper rock almost touching it and pull left after passing the upper rock. You want to be well right of the lower rock as the water wants to push you right at and up on top of it. Once there have fun practicing some self rescue with a breached boat!


----------

