# Dishwashing / dishwater strainer



## readNrun (Aug 1, 2013)

I've used these: Strainers. They pack well, cost effective and you just toss them over your bucket/bin and dump.


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## Tubintheyampa (Jun 30, 2015)

called the middle fork ranger district today and they recommended that I use something around 100 microns.
Any idea what the micron size is on those?
I'm a hippy that likes to follow the "leave no trace" ideology.


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## Electric-Mayhem (Jan 19, 2004)

Tubintheyampa said:


> called the middle fork ranger district today and they recommended that I use something around 100 microns.
> Any idea what the micron size is on those?
> I'm a hippy that likes to follow the "leave no trace" ideology.


Well....a 100 Micron essentially means it has .1 millimeter holes....which seems a bit excessively small to me and not worth going out of your way to get to when most guys on the river are using a kitchen strainer or something made with a bucket and window screen.

One of the Home Depot pages about the paint bucket bags says they are either 250 microns or 650 microns (.25 mm or .65 mm respectively) which seems like its plenty good to me.

If letting stuff less then a millimeter through is gonna ruin the river then we probably shouldn't be rafting on it. I mean....the average small grain of sand is 2mm....so you be the judge.


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## Tubintheyampa (Jun 30, 2015)

Hahaha
Fair enough.
Just trying to do the right thing.
But you have a valid argument for sure.


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## wildh2onriver (Jul 21, 2009)

Uh, 5 gal paint strainer is plenty good enough. Thanks Josh for your detailed explanation as to why.

Personally, I think why strainers are mandated is because the managing agencies feel that food particles in the river are another way to leave a visual trace that people were there, especially on clear rivers. Nothing I've ever strained could hurt the Eco-system more than the dish soap used to wash the dishes.


Sent from my iPhone using Mountain Buzz


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## readNrun (Aug 1, 2013)

The one I posted is 300 micron. 100 micron!!! I agree - that's a bit excessive. Being that most people use a kitchen strainer that's probably 1/4"-1/8" (well beyond 800 micron). 

Based on what I saw during a high-water Juan trip - a 2.5 FOOT strainer would help get a lot of the stuff out of that river 

Bio diesel filtering is a big user of screening for waste oil. If you want a good visual of what the different sizes really look like check this out.


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## carvedog (May 11, 2005)

Somehow I get the impression that some of you are putting the strained water in the river??? The proper protocol is to broadcast above the high water line. I have seen trips that somehow generate 8 or 10 gallons of waste water and they use a little tiny strainer up the hill and over flow it so all kinds of food gets left in a puddle. 

To me this starts with eliminating food from the dishwater to start with. Then you need less soap, less water and have a lot less to strain. Have a decent garbage can that people can really scrape their plates into or the cookware. I have switched to almost all paper plates on the river and I am fine with that. With just having to wash silverware and pans we get it done with a gallon or two of water max. Even on big trips. 

Strain in your kitchen and then take the strained water up the hill and give it a wicked broadcast.


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## readNrun (Aug 1, 2013)

carvedog said:


> Somehow I get the impression that some of you are putting the strained water in the river??? The proper protocol is to broadcast above the high water line. I have seen trips that somehow generate 8 or 10 gallons of waste water and they use a little tiny strainer up the hill and over flow it so all kinds of food gets left in a puddle.
> 
> To me this starts with eliminating food from the dishwater to start with. Then you need less soap, less water and have a lot less to strain. Have a decent garbage can that people can really scrape their plates into or the cookware. I have switched to almost all paper plates on the river and I am fine with that. With just having to wash silverware and pans we get it done with a gallon or two of water max. Even on big trips.
> 
> Strain in your kitchen and then take the strained water up the hill and give it a wicked broadcast.


We scrape, use an orgo bucket (gamma) and then do a 4 tub wash system. Most of the remaining organic matter is in the first tub. That tub gets strained and that water goes into the river. Even with a 100 micron filter there is organic matter in the water and it seems that if everyone dumped this water on shore there would eventually build up a volume of organic waste (and potentially soap - albeit biodegradable) all around our camps. Same reason we use groovers and pee in the water. Remember - even the strained water has a good share of organic matter in it from food that is not exactly "native" to the camps.

My friend, who happens to be a river ecologist clearly stated that putting that strained water into the river was the best way to keep the camp clean and distribute any remaining organic matter that got past the filter - which it will.

This is the way we've always done it - the rangers I've spoken to seem to agree with this as well. It seems that the goal is to leave as little in camp as possible and even broadcasting (on land) your residual dishwater seems like a bad idea.

Even the guidelines for the Grand recommend straining into the river and then packing out the strained solids. Can you reference a river guide that states what you are recommending?


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## carvedog (May 11, 2005)

Read_N_Run said:


> We scrape, use an orgo bucket (gamma) and then do a 4 tub wash system. Most of the remaining organic matter is in the first tub. That tub gets strained and that water goes into the river. Even with a 100 micron filter there is organic matter in the water and it seems that if everyone dumped this water on shore there would eventually build up a volume of organic waste (and potentially soap - albeit biodegradable) all around our camps. Same reason we use groovers and pee in the water. Remember - even the strained water has a good share of organic matter in it from food that is not exactly "native" to the camps.
> 
> My friend, who happens to be a river ecologist clearly stated that putting that strained water into the river was the best way to keep the camp clean and distribute any remaining organic matter that got past the filter - which it will.
> 
> ...


Not on the Middle Fork. 
Particularly see points 5 and 9. They can and will cite you for doing this. And I agree with them. I had this argument with someone who ignored my suggestion to broadcast above high water. NO SOAP in the river EVER, PLEASE. Grand Canyon in climate and volume of water is much different than the high alpine environment of the Middle Fork. It is essentially a low volume river after June and soap and food particles increase nitrogen levels in the water not to mention the biophosphates t

Salmon-Challis National Forest - Water Activities


Not that a few bucket of dish water approach this level of harm but why go there in the first place. Relatively large flows of water in Grand Canyon dilute this problem but not up here.

What occurs if detergents show up in freshwaters?
Detergents can have poisonous effects in all types of aquatic life if they are present in sufficient quantities, and this includes the biodegradable detergents. All detergents destroy the external mucus layers that protect the fish from bacteria and parasites; plus they can cause severe damage to the gills. Most fish will die when detergent concentrations approach 15 parts per million. Detergent concentrations as low as 5 ppm will kill fish eggs. Surfactant detergents are implicated in decreasing the breeding ability of aquatic organisms. 
Detergents also add another problem for aquatic life by lowering the surface tension of the water. Organic chemicals such as pesticides and phenols are then much more easily absorbed by the fish. A detergent concentration of only 2 ppm can cause fish to absorb double the amount of chemicals they would normally absorb, although that concentration itself is not high enough to affect fish directly. 
Phosphates in detergents can lead to freshwater algal blooms that releases toxins and deplete oxygen in waterways. When the algae decompose, they use up the oxygen available for aquatic life.
The main contributors to the toxicity of detergents were the sodium silicate solution and the surfactants-with the remainder of the components contributing very little to detergent toxicity. The potential for acute aquatic toxic effects due to the release of secondary or tertiary sewage effluents containing the breakdown products of laundry detergents may frequently be low. However, untreated or primary treated effluents containing detergents may pose a problem. Chronic and/or other sublethal effects that were not examined in this study may also pose a problem.

Read more: Effects of detergents on aquatic freshwater life


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## readNrun (Aug 1, 2013)

Thanks for the info - most of my rafting has been down south there. I found a bunch of references (BLM, OARS, etc) that using bronners and campsuds is acceptable - but only off the river as you pointed out (above the high water line). This includes not using it in any hot springs (duh) or other spring or side water source. FYI - these guides were specifically for the MF, LS & MS.

Again - thanks for the guidance. Since I'm typically the chief bottle washer - I'll share this with the rest of the group.


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## wshutt (Jun 20, 2013)

The desert rules vs the "Idaho rules" do make for confusion among groups who regularly go between the two systems. I was horrified the first time we were on the Yampa and watched someone soap up in the river. Then again I was horrified a few weeks ago on the MF when we sat across the river and witnessed a group soap up and shave legs in Hospital Bar hotspring, I can only guess that they were from CO and thought this was OK and not just mindless dicks. 

Having been introduced to the desert way of doing things where everything goes in the river (dilution is the solution etc) I do wonder about the strained dishwater above the high tide line. In theory dispersion into the brush works allowing filtering etc thru sand and rocks. However, in practice many of those camps are used almost every night throughout the season and there is only so far into the poison ivy people will venture thus there is a concentration of stinky stuff and grease. I have wondered before and will muse again that especially in places like the Main Salmon (hot, dry during July/Aug) this may be contributing toward the yellow jacket problems that seem to have been getting worse. 

Definitely agree with CarveDog that straining into a bucket in camp reduces spillage vs trying to strain directly from dishpan, also increases dispersion. The guidelines I have seen say a "strainer fine enough to filter out coffee grounds" goodness knows what mesh size that actually is but a regular kitchen sieve seems to serve that purpose.

Now what about the kitchen tarp issue? Seems like Idaho should be adopting that from the desert rules, yes? Having spend 30 mins "straining" spilled oatmeal out of the sand before now I am a convert. It really helps the minimal trace cause. No, I won't use the phrase "no trace" as that is a blatant lie when groups of 25 or 30 are permitted but that will be the topic of a future rant I'm sure.


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## [email protected] (Jun 1, 2010)

Read_N_Run said:


> I've used these: Strainers. They pack well, cost effective and you just toss them over your bucket/bin and dump.


 +1 they are great. Note an 100 micron filter will take all night to filter dish water and plug up. The ranger did not know his microns.
+1 on kitchen Tarp


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