# What type Winch for Trailer



## treemanji (Jan 23, 2011)

No such thing as a dumb question. The worst question is the one left unasked. They do make raft winches I've seen some great ones on the boat ramps.


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## Learch (Jul 12, 2010)

I think it's up to personal preference. The cable would most likely last longer, but I like that straps better myself. We just had our local raft repair expert from Goldwater boat works speak about raft repair and maintenance. Winching rafts came up. Be careful how you winch your boat up. You trailer either needs to be in the water or it needs to be empty or close to it. He has had to repair rafts pulled up on a trailer loaded several times. 
From my personal knowledge base, raft D rings have a load rating of no more than 1000 lbs, and many times you can only trust a D ring to about 500 lbs of load. pulling a raft up on a trailer by a winch can be done safely, just keep those limitations in mind to avoid a messed up raft.


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## flipper42 (Apr 8, 2011)

Thanks Learch for the info my boat is goin on mainly town runs not gonna be loaded down and of course ill empty it first I'm gonna go with the strap set up I just worry the cable might unwrap and become a hazard for the boat I just ordered the part so we will see how it goes thanks agian!


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## GreenWall (Oct 20, 2015)

We use straps on all our trailers winches, no reason to have a cable around an inflatable. We also make a 3 point harness for customers so they can pull on the 3 front D-rings at the same time while loading.

I have never used a winch loading a boat unless it was straight down the bank. We just back in float the boat on and leave most of the time.


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## mattman (Jan 30, 2015)

Go with the strap, cables fray and can stab ya in the hand with meat hooks of wire.
Ya, be careful about winching loaded boats onto your trailer for sure, especially cataract take out( ask me how I know!) I get away with it sometimes, but you can rip d-rings right off, multiple d-rings are best to attach to, a flying d-ring could remove flesh. Got a good winch from bass pro I like.( 3 ton?)


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## flipper42 (Apr 8, 2011)

Im not just winching it Im mainly getting it as an assist to help I wouldnt just winch the boat straight up most the time its just 2 of us me and my lady so a little help will go along way thanks for all your replys and a 3 anchor system would be the way to go for sure!


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## curtis catman (Sep 29, 2015)

Cable gets you a lot more length. Now you can purchase Kevlar rope that is twice as strong as wire rope. So if you are going to be winching down a long ramp get Kevlar rope. If not get nylon strap. Kevlar rope is now affordable.


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## grumper13 (Jan 14, 2008)

The main advice I would give about winches is that gear ratio matters. Besides choosing one of adequate capacity (1500#, 2000#, 3000#, etc), make sure it is at least 4:1 gear ratio, and higher is better. 

As others have said, a strap (instead of wire) is fine and friendlier to work with.

And I agree with others about the folly of pulling on D-rings, but the way I do it seems to work. I pull from the 2 rear D-rings (on either side of the center stern D-ring), running my stern rope under the boat to the bow, forming a V, then clip the winch strap into that V (you want the V to be a foot or so back under the bow). This V line is best rigged while the boat is floating in shallow water, then float the boat around to the rear of the trailer and clip the winch line into it. This divides the load into the 2 D-rings, and by running the V strap _under _the boat, it also lifts the bow up onto the trailer. Also, I loop a 4-5' strap through the bow D-ring and around the winch strap, to keep the bow from rising too high as it approaches the tipping point on the trailer roller. With it rigged this way, I can trailer a loaded raft. I don't often do it, but on a crowded ramp, I have and it works fine. And though a helper is nice, I can load it by myself. Another thing I did on my previous raft, was to tie a loop (a butterfly hitch) in each side of the chicken line, right where the rear rocker starts, and I'd clip my V line into those loops (and under the boat), which spread the load around the rear 1/3 of the boat's D-rings. That worked well, too, and obviously, my chicken line was stout enough for that load (a loaded raft).


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## mattman (Jan 30, 2015)

Hmm.... Thanks for the idea grumper!! 
Getting enough lift on the front of my raft, to get it up onto my trailer, is all way's an issue, that would solve the problem quite well.


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## brasscap (Jul 12, 2009)

I don't have a winch, but nobody has mentioned anchoring to the frame. Is there a reason that is not an option?


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## robemega (Feb 24, 2013)

*Wish someone would*



grumper13 said:


> The main advice I would give about winches is that gear ratio matters. Besides choosing one of adequate capacity (1500#, 2000#, 3000#, etc), make sure it is at least 4:1 gear ratio, and higher is better.
> 
> As others have said, a strap (instead of wire) is fine and friendlier to work with.
> 
> And I agree with others about the folly of pulling on D-rings, but the way I do it seems to work. I pull from the 2 rear D-rings (on either side of the center stern D-ring), running my stern rope under the boat to the bow, forming a V, then clip the winch strap into that V (you want the V to be a foot or so back under the bow). This V line is best rigged while the boat is floating in shallow water, then float the boat around to the rear of the trailer and clip the winch line into it. This divides the load into the 2 D-rings, and by running the V strap _under _the boat, it also lifts the bow up onto the trailer. Also, I loop a 4-5' strap through the bow D-ring and around the winch strap, to keep the bow from rising too high as it approaches the tipping point on the trailer roller. With it rigged this way, I can trailer a loaded raft. I don't often do it, but on a crowded ramp, I have and it works fine. And though a helper is nice, I can load it by myself. Another thing I did on my previous raft, was to tie a loop (a butterfly hitch) in each side of the chicken line, right where the rear rocker starts, and I'd clip my V line into those loops (and under the boat), which spread the load around the rear 1/3 of the boat's D-rings. That worked well, too, and obviously, my chicken line was stout enough for that load (a loaded raft).


Wish I could get a picture/drawing/additional explanation of how you run the stern line through the two rear side d rings so the load gets distributed to the side rings. I understand the V part and how the bow gets lifted. Thanks!


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## grumper13 (Jan 14, 2008)

mattman said:


> Hmm.... Thanks for the idea grumper!!
> Getting enough lift on the front of my raft, to get it up onto my trailer, is all way's an issue, that would solve the problem quite well.


Yeah, it sure is nice when it's just you and the crickets at the takeout..... crickets are not much help at loading rafts.


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## grumper13 (Jan 14, 2008)

robemega said:


> Wish I could get a picture/drawing/additional explanation of how you run the stern line through the two rear side d rings so the load gets distributed to the side rings. I understand the V part and how the bow gets lifted. Thanks!


On my current raft (Aire 143E), which has a D-ring on each corner of the stern, I just tie each end of my stern line to a D-ring, then pull it around (underneath) to form the V. On my previous raft, which had a more typical arrangement of D-rings, I tied a loop (a butterfly hitch) in the chicken line, just forward of each D-ring where the rear rocker starts (between the rear 1/3 and rear 1/4 of raft), then I would clip my "V-line" (with a loop and biner on each end) into these chicken line loops, then clip the winch line into the V. This makes a load bearing harness out of the rear 1/3 of the chicken line, spreading the load through 3 D-rings. And obviously, the chicken line needs to be strong enough for this use.


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## jimr (Sep 8, 2007)

I attach it to the front of my frame zing it right up. You can also use a sling or some webbing with a carabiner wrap around frame and leave it there so all you have to do is clip that loop. I run a dry box up front so it's a pain to slip the wench around actual frame webbing loop makes it quick. I've seen some guides who run a webbing loop through their Aire laced floor, seems a lil sketch but they been doing it for years on the same boat no issues.


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## jimr (Sep 8, 2007)

Also I use the strap wench...
Would be sweet to have a motorized wench sling the clip to a big piece of webbing on the raft and press the button lol


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## wyosam (May 31, 2006)

Take a piece of webbing, put three loops in it (probably takes 25 feet?)- one in each end, and one in the middle. The ones on the ends go over the oar towers, webbing running under the raft, winch line to the loop in the middle- length is such that the middle loop is up near the front of the raft (but under). I do this with a semi loaded 14' all the time, onto a Sawtooth welding trailer with storage (deck is probably 4 1/2 feet up). Back the trailer to within a couple feet of the water, but never get it wet. One person loading, no stress on D rings. The webbing coming from under lifts the raft, the roller on the back of the trailer lets the winch strap (then the webbing) roll easy over the end. Takes 2 minutes.


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## Learch (Jul 12, 2010)

GreenWall said:


> We use straps on all our trailers winches, no reason to have a cable around an inflatable. We also make a 3 point harness for customers so they can pull on the 3 front D-rings at the same time while loading.
> 
> I have never used a winch loading a boat unless it was straight down the bank. We just back in float the boat on and leave most of the time.
> View attachment 10892


Two things, 

First, the front D ring is mounted in the correct direction for pulling on, but aren't the next 2 D rings getting pulled on from the wrong direction if you use a 3 ring strap? Or am I overthinking it? Would it be worth having 2 more D rings mounted 90 degrees from normal just for winching forward? 

Second, are you still building trailers along with boats?


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## grumper13 (Jan 14, 2008)

wyosam said:


> Take a piece of webbing, put three loops in it (probably takes 25 feet?)- one in each end, and one in the middle. The ones on the ends go over the oar towers, webbing running under the raft, winch line to the loop in the middle- length is such that the middle loop is up near the front of the raft (but under). I do this with a semi loaded 14' all the time, onto a Sawtooth welding trailer with storage (deck is probably 4 1/2 feet up). Back the trailer to within a couple feet of the water, but never get it wet. One person loading, no stress on D rings. The webbing coming from under lifts the raft, the roller on the back of the trailer lets the winch strap (then the webbing) roll easy over the end. Takes 2 minutes.


That's great! basically accomplishes what my system does, but simpler and quicker to rig!


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## elkhaven (Sep 11, 2013)

wyosam said:


> Take a piece of webbing, put three loops in it (probably takes 25 feet?)- one in each end, and one in the middle. The ones on the ends go over the oar towers, webbing running under the raft, winch line to the loop in the middle- length is such that the middle loop is up near the front of the raft (but under). I do this with a semi loaded 14' all the time, onto a Sawtooth welding trailer with storage (deck is probably 4 1/2 feet up). Back the trailer to within a couple feet of the water, but never get it wet. One person loading, no stress on D rings. The webbing coming from under lifts the raft, the roller on the back of the trailer lets the winch strap (then the webbing) roll easy over the end. Takes 2 minutes.


I'm having an issue visualizing, but I like the concept... how do you get the webbing under the boat from the oar towers? Down through the floor? or does it just angle down the side, then tuck under at the taper? I.e. make the thing just long enough that the loop positions it's self under the bow (kind of like a smiley face (when viewed from the winch)???

I really like the lift aspect of this concept.


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## elkhaven (Sep 11, 2013)

brasscap said:


> I don't have a winch, but nobody has mentioned anchoring to the frame. Is there a reason that is not an option?


From my experience this pulls down on the boat, not up. So in essence you may make it more difficult to pull the boat up the trailer. Unless your winch is mounted pretty high you will create a v (formed by the strap on top, trailer on bottom, with the point at the winch stand. As you pull the boat farther onto the trailer some of the force starts pulling the boat down onto the trailer, in essence making it heavier (more drag between the raft and trailer). This part is easily fixible by making the stand high enough but then things just get too high and you're cranking from your shoulder height. So I added a d ring under the bow to pull from which worked much better.

Secondly it's always a pain to get the bottom of the boat up onto the trailer (in the absence of a tilt bed) when pulling from the frame. I used to to pull from my anchor system, but it would take two people; one to run the winch and one to lift the stern high enough to get the bottom of the epiece ontop of the roller. The solution to this is to just dunk the trailer (or close to it). Which is what I've done for years anyways. I mostly float the boat halfway on then finish it off by pulling by hand. Winch is for harder ramps. 

I really like the principle of wyosams rig if I understand it correctly. Solves both problems mentioned above and I'm curios to explore it.


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## Osprey (May 26, 2006)

I have a Rapid Rig so I have to pull the boat up super high. My webbing has a loop on either end that that goes to the back of the frame. NRS frame so the rear cross beam is just forward an inch to create the nub to loop onto. Then it’s like was mentioned, the webbing goes to a V to the front end underneath, having that V makes a huge difference to get the nose of the boat up in the air. I never had any issue using the front d-ring but I would always have to lift the front end up to keep the metal ring from catching on the roller. The V is way better and essentially I am pulling on the boat with the full straps of the frame.

At Lodore I saw the rangers with their electric winch rig and one of them had sewn a sling that went around the rear tubes of the boat that tapered to two long straps that met in the middle at the front after going underneath. The whole sling was made from NRS straps.


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## wyosam (May 31, 2006)

elkhaven said:


> I'm having an issue visualizing, but I like the concept... how do you get the webbing under the boat from the oar towers? Down through the floor? or does it just angle down the side, then tuck under at the taper? I.e. make the thing just long enough that the loop positions it's self under the bow (kind of like a smiley face (when viewed from the winch)???
> 
> I really like the lift aspect of this concept.



I loop the first tower, then hook the winch strap, pull webbing under raft (pulling from last loop) over second oar tower. 


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## mattman (Jan 30, 2015)

Doesn't the government have such nice stuff!? Wonder how they afford it? Wish I had that kinda money.... (Just couldn't help it)


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## Osprey (May 26, 2006)

They have the best gear your lost permit fees can buy! Lol


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## lll100 (May 11, 2011)

I second grumper13. Use a V under raft made of tubular webbing to rear of boat. I attach the V line to the rear of my frame on each side and run it thru under the bow D-ring to winch. Also the ratio on winch is key as well. I had to upgrade/replace mine to lower ratio as it was impossible to turn winch without folks pulling on raft to help, its a 16 foot pig. Will just float it on if ramp has the water to put trailer in deep enough, otherwise winch it. Good Luck.


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## grumper13 (Jan 14, 2008)

lll100 said:


> I second grumper13. Use a V under raft made of tubular webbing to rear of boat. I attach the V line to the rear of my frame on each side and run it thru under the bow D-ring to winch. Also the ratio on winch is key as well. I had to upgrade/replace mine to lower ratio as it was impossible to turn winch without folks pulling on raft to help, its a 16 foot pig. Will just float it on if ramp has the water to put trailer in deep enough, otherwise winch it. Good Luck.


Yeah, though my way works fine (rigging to rear D-rings or the chicken line) works fine, I REALLY like the idea of rigging to the frame or oar towers, as a few have mentioned in this thread. It's quicker to rig, simpler, and NO D-ring anxiety. Will be doing this from now on. Win-win.


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## brasscap (Jul 12, 2009)

elkhaven said:


> From my experience this pulls down on the boat, not up. So in essence you may make it more difficult to pull the boat up the trailer........
> 
> I really like the principle of wyosams rig if I understand it correctly. Solves both problems mentioned above and I'm curios to explore it.


Are you guys winching from the ground or are you lifting the front up first?


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## grumper13 (Jan 14, 2008)

brasscap said:


> Are you guys winching from the ground or are you lifting the front up first?


From the water (raft floating on the water, behind the trailer) and winch strap goes over roller at rear of trailer.


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## curtis catman (Sep 29, 2015)

Winch line over trailer roller. Loop straps of equal length over oar towers, under boat. Winch strap connected to loop strap under the end going on trailer first. Loop straps pulls frame down onto raft. Winch strap picks up front of raft and onto trailer it goes. Not stress on D rings. takes about 1 minute to rig. I know that this has been explained already. I was just trying to simplify it.


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## mattman (Jan 30, 2015)

So several people have talked about backing trailer into water far enough to float on.
I have all way's stopped before bearings get wet, but has anyone that backs in farther ever actually had bearings get fried from gritty river water, or is it not that much of an issue?


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## PhilipJFry (Apr 1, 2013)

mattman said:


> So several people have talked about backing trailer into water far enough to float on.
> I have all way's stopped before bearings get wet, but has anyone that backs in farther ever actually had bearings get fried from gritty river water, or is it not that much of an issue?


I've had it happen. but I was bad about packing my bearings too.. I'm sure if i would have repacked them after that trip, that I wouldn't have fried them on the next trip. water is hard on bearings. if you can't %100 seal it out, it's going to cause problems.


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## elkhaven (Sep 11, 2013)

mattman said:


> So several people have talked about backing trailer into water far enough to float on.
> I have all way's stopped before bearings get wet, but has anyone that backs in farther ever actually had bearings get fried from gritty river water, or is it not that much of an issue?


I run bearing buddies, they seal and pressurize the grease so it's at a greater pressure than the water. No water gets into the hubs. I rebuild my hubs every few years for added peace of mind.


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## Dr.AndyDVM (Jul 28, 2014)

I have a 6' loop of tubular webbing that I hook onto the chicken line at the bow and then run into the boat and out through the floor.













That gets attached to the hook on my winch rope. 







My winch is a 2 speed with a high and a low. My kids use the low, but I mostly use the high gear. 













My trailer is pretty tall, but rigging the rope and webbing this way lets me load the raft from the ground onto the trailer deck without having to lift the bow of the boat onto the roller bar. I usually try to get the trailer part way into the water if I can though. We winch it on loaded for day trips or overnight camping every trip. 
I would like to see pics of the "V" under the boat and attached to the frame. I'm having difficulty visualizing it. 



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## Learch (Jul 12, 2010)

Yes, if you dunk your axle, repack them once per season. I think it's best to do it at the end of the season when the trailer is going to sit. Everything sits in there at that point with water in the hub and rust sets in. I pack bearings at work, so I see the affects water has on trailers, even trailers that don't go in rivers. It is simple insurance to pull the grease cap, remove the cotter pin, spin the nut off, pull the hub, replace the seal, and repack the bearings with fresh marine grease. Marine grease is awesome, until it dries up. If it sits for too long, it dries up like a lake bed and doesn't like to move anymore. Bearing buddies are great, they are a spring loaded grease cap that puts positive pressure in the hub cavity.


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## grumper13 (Jan 14, 2008)

I don't get my bearings wet, I just back the trailer out 'til the back end is over about 6" (or so) of water. Sometimes the tires get wet, sometimes not, but 6" is enough to float a raft.


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## mattman (Jan 30, 2015)

Thanks for responses! You haven't lived till you beat that stuff apart with hammer and chisel! Rebuild mine yearly now, doing it at end of season is a good idea learch. My trailer is just to short behind hubs to float on, will adopt the v next time.


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## Dr.AndyDVM (Jul 28, 2014)

Can someone provide some pics of the V?


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## Schutzie (Feb 5, 2013)

mattman said:


> So several people have talked about backing trailer into water far enough to float on.
> I have all way's stopped before bearings get wet, but has anyone that backs in farther ever actually had bearings get fried from gritty river water, or is it not that much of an issue?


So like elkhaven said, bearing buddies, and clean and repack your bearings at least annually. They run about $20, and just snap right on.

Shooter spent a lousy day sitting on a Nevada roadside waiting for a bearing for a trailer. Lesson learned!

Of bigger concern are your trailer lights. Rule one, sealed lights Rule two, disconnect the electrical BEFORE you back it into the water. You likely won't notice you popped a fuse but a cop will, and as we all know, raft/kayak+Colorado plates =traffic stop. Don't give em a valid reason to stop you.


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## GreenWall (Oct 20, 2015)

No worries I do this at least 100 times a year, dunk and grab down the road in 5 minutes. Of course I make sure the trailers are built for it also, most tailers I see on here are glorified utility trailers so sound advice above. No need for me to unplug wiring, I do the bearings once a year like Learch said.


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## brasscap (Jul 12, 2009)

Dr.AndyDVM said:


> I have a 6' loop of tubular webbing that I hook onto the chicken line at the bow and then run into the boat and out through the floor.
> View attachment 10907
> View attachment 10908
> 
> ...


Great Post! Not a bad method, especially when starting from the ground. 

I too would like to see the "V" method.


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## mattman (Jan 30, 2015)

Mine is only a glorified utility trailer, but I need it to haul my fire wood to, so I make it work. 
A tilt trailer would be awesome, but I am able to take mine 4weelin' after trips, when I'm hunting for a free camp site! (Why did the road turn into an ATV trail?)
Ya, probly time I fork out the $20 for bearing budy's so I don't have to worry about backing in to deep.


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## lncoop (Sep 10, 2010)

mattman said:


> Mine is only a glorified utility trailer, but I need it to haul my fire wood to, so I make it work.
> A tilt trailer would be awesome, but I am able to take mine 4weelin' after trips, when I'm hunting for a free camp site! (Why did the road turn into an ATV trail?)
> Ya, probly time I fork out the $20 for bearing budy's so I don't have to worry about backing in to deep.


What do BBs have to do with backing into the water?


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## caverdan (Aug 27, 2004)

BB's add positive pressure to the grease inside the hub by using a spring, so water can't enter, thus preventing corrosion.


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## mattman (Jan 30, 2015)

Ya, there something you would have on an actual boat trailer for power boats and such. Something a utility trailer doesn't come with normally, hence my dirtbag ass should really get some.


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## Dr.AndyDVM (Jul 28, 2014)

Can someone post a pic of the V


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## lncoop (Sep 10, 2010)

mattman said:


> Ya, there something you would have on an actual boat trailer for power boats and such. Something a utility trailer doesn't come with normally, hence my dirtbag ass should really get some.


I've towed many many boat and other trailers over the years and am very familiar with BBs and I don't recommend counting on them to keep water out of your bearings. I know they claim to but they don't always, especially when added to trailers that have been in service for a while. BTDT. I'm not saying they're useless or a bad idea. They're great and I know you'll be happy you added them. Just don't count on them to keep water out or you may be disappointed. Also, lots of people make the mistake of pumping in too much grease, either all at once or over a period of time by "topping off". They do have a weep valve to prevent this from causing inner seal blowout, but again, I've seen it happen anyway. Fortunately it's easy to avoid. 

The best critter is the EZ Lube (and other identical products with different names) setup. It allows you to hook up the grease gun and pump away until old grease and water are completely replaced with new grease. It's the cats.


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## curtis catman (Sep 29, 2015)

and don't be a cheap skate, buy quality water proof grease. Now I know what some of you are thinking ( water and oil don't mix, this guy is an idiot) Well I am here to tell you water and oil do mix especialy in the blender that we call a wheel bearing.


OH and I don't have a picture of the V but it is two 10' or close to that loop straps, or pieces of rope tied in a loop. Take and drop the loop over an oar tower, grab the far end of the loop, take it to the front of your raft under neath. Hook it to your winch line. Do the same thing with the other strap forming a V under neath your boat near the front. When you start winching this will lift your boat up over your rolling tailboard, that is the rolly thing on the back of your trailer.


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## Dr.AndyDVM (Jul 28, 2014)

Thanks Curtis! That helps me picture it. I might try that with my raft. 


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## curtis catman (Sep 29, 2015)

You are welcome Andy. It works slick and is easy to rig.


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## 348win (Apr 1, 2018)

*Loading Harness*

Do you leave the "V" in place on the trailer once it's loaded?


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## Dr.AndyDVM (Jul 28, 2014)

You can. I’ve done both. If you leave it on, leave it connected to the winch


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