# Why some kayakers should learn manners in the ocean.



## hobie (Nov 3, 2003)

http://photos.surfline.com/norcal/carsh1

After dropping in on a sweet wave in Santa Cruz and getting a few yards down the line, some dumb ass goes ahead and does the unspeakable. Dropped straight down in my path and then after this shot caught me in the eye with his paddle. Just pointing out that if you go in the ocean know what you are doing or stay away. Had this guy done this to a non paddler he would have more than likely been throttled on shore. Especially at Steamers Lane. I gave him the business when I got back to the line up.
His response? " I didn't think you could catch up to me and i was trying to get out of your way" Answer to him "your a tool dude and should have never paddled for it"

hobie


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## Mike Harvey (Oct 10, 2003)

yeah but at least your ass looks good in that wetsuit....


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## Ture (Apr 12, 2004)

That was kind of you to be so gentle with him. I think he is sociopathic.

There is no excuse for a paddler to go out at a crowded spot on a good day in Nor Cal. Kayakers can paddle many spots that are too rocky or too difficult a paddle for board surfers. The number of surfable spots for surf kayaking in Nor Cal is orders of magnitude larger than that available to board surfers.

Kayakers should give board surfers a wide berth. If they don't then surfers will take care of it in the traditional manner and it will become not so fun for us to drive up to a spot with a boat on the roof and Colorado plates.


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## wycoloboater (Nov 18, 2003)

That sucks that that guy got in your way/ stole your wave, and I know that there is an eddicate to surfing in the ocean, ie stay away from surfers, don't steal waves, etc. etc. But why is it that surfers have such a dickhead attitude about the whole thing. What is it about surfers that makes them think they are so much better than everyone else? Share the f#@#ing water. When surfers go up to lunch counter on the snake they don't get kicked off and beat up in the parking lot, surfers are gay and need to drop the punk ass attitude. Learn to share, most of us learned that in kindergarden - maybe it is just the California "Rad Bro" attitude that keeps them from being cool. Even kayakers that surf seem to have the "Rad Bro" attitude when they are surfing, chill out and enjoy the water where ever it is plentiful.


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## Brook (Nov 22, 2003)

*reno*

Hey Hobie and Harvey when are you guys going to Reno. R U taking the Amtrack? I might come along to supervise the drinking, gambling, and debotchery!

-Brook


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## Ture (Apr 12, 2004)

You are retarded, wycoloboater, but I don't hold it against you. Let's go creeking some time.

Surfable ocean waves are a limited resource. I am a surfer who turned to kayaking when I became land-locked so I can see it from both a surfer's and a paddler's perspective. I am always a visiting surfer when in California these days because I live in Colorado so I don't like localism either. However it exists for a reason: when you are close to town there are not enough nice surfable waves for everyone to get one.

Surfers will not bother you if you surf respectfully. I have only seen one fight in almost 20 years. I have dropped in on people and people have dropped in on me. When it happens, an apology is given and that's that.


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## LoopDog (Apr 13, 2004)

Hobie,

Since when did you become such a little bi*ch? 

"your a tool dude and should have never paddled for it"

You would have done the same f***ing thing. Maybe you saw Point Break recently and are trying to be a Warchild.


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## benrodda (Mar 27, 2004)

Maybe kayakers dont know the rules. Who ever is closest to the first part of the beak keeps the wave. Its a pecking order. The better Surfers generally stay in the locations that get the first break. The thing that sucks is that if you are in a boat and you have caught the wave there really is no way to get off of it. You also cant carve out of the way of a surfer as easy as a surfer can. Kayakers generally dont work a wave the same way a surfer does either. A surfer can cover a ton of teritory on one wave they need the room. 

Then there is a perception issue. A surfers equipment is a board and a wet suit. Kayakers kind of look like "gear queers" with all of the stuff. To a surfer it looks a little less "pure" with all the crap (paddle, life jacket, helmet, spray skirt. You may not understand it but I think this is a perception that is had. In their minds they probably think it takes less skill to paddle a boat than to ride a board..... I can remeber how cheesy it was when Vanilla Ice used to ride his jet ski up the New River, possibly think along those lines.

My sugestion for you kayakers is this.... You have one thing to offer a surfer that he cant offer you..... Storage. Take some water out with you or even some beer.... It will go a long way.

all that being said.... it made for a pretty funny photo.

ben rodda


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## Hartje (Oct 16, 2003)

*Riverboarders*

Just wait till the riverboarders start massing at our favorite playspots wanting to belly surf on their little sleds. So I wonder if these same kayakers who think surfers should lose their dickhead attitudes, would wave a riverboarder into a hole when there are 25 boats in the eddy ahead of you and you've only had one ride, which you flushed from immediately, and you only have 20 minutes to paddle.


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## Todd (Oct 15, 2003)

LoopDog- what are you talking about, Hobie has every right to confront any kayaker, or surfer for that matter, who chases the wave when it is already spoken for. If he doesn't then the problem gets worse. We already have issues between boarders and kayakers. I have seen the problems mostly due to lack of kayaker etiquette or knowledge. so it is best to educate. 

Todd


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## spyk (Oct 13, 2003)

aight, so im goin to mexico to surf kayak ... what exactly are the rules, I dont want my ass getting kicked by big drunk mexican surfers..... Later
Shane Spyker


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## hobie (Nov 3, 2003)

*l*

ll


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## hobie (Nov 3, 2003)

Loops,
I have been surfing since I was 10. The first thing you learn are the basic "rules" of right of way and who has priority to a wave. I might mess with friends on an uncrowded day but to drop in (and go left on a right hander no less. Steamers is a right point break with a few lefties of which that wave was not) in front of a motoring surfer who has had the wave for many yards is dumb. And no I would not have dropped in. Also, the warchild thing. I think you know better. Why no name with your post?
And Wycoloboater.... Surfing an ocean wave is different in that they are often few and far between and some waves are far better then others. When the counter is in, it's in. It may get better at certain levels but ocean waves rely on tides, swell, winds, bottom, etc.. The surfer closest to the peaK has priorityin the ocean. That is a fact and has no attitude with it. You however seem to be showing a bit though. Are you directing these "punk ass" or "gay" attitude comments at me?

hobie


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## willoughby (Mar 15, 2004)

hobie you gay punk ass. let's go to barrel tomorrow after you do the weather.


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## 217 (Oct 27, 2003)

How many of you have had a texan (or front ranger) plow into you on the slopes, and then you proceeded to throw all of this dumbass's ski gear into the woods? Well, I know that I have. The anger was out of adrenaline. Texans (and front rangers) can hurt you. All because they haven't got a clue. Same goes for the ocean. Surfers get pissed because kayaks, other surf boards and paddles hurt. Plus, it is much easier to catch a wave in a kayak then it is on a surf board. If you are sharing a wave, then realize that you will probably get as many chances even if you give up the "right of way". The "storage" issue is good. They will be less likely to threaten you before you get in. An even better idea is to meet some surfers out of the water the night before or go with surfers who also paddle.

aaron


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## gh (Oct 13, 2003)

So here we go with the "front ranger" attitude again. Jeez, give it a break. As far as throwing equipment into the woods, that would be very interesting to see. Jeez, Hobie makes one comment about surfing manners and now everyone is a BMF. Give me a break.


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## LoopDog (Apr 13, 2004)

Hobie,

If that was the case, going left on a right hander, and dropping in before you when you had a better position, than he was at fault.
Loose the attitude though. How do you know it wasn't the guys first time paddling on the ocean, be a good rep and tell him about surfer etiquette. Todd is right, educate. If he does it again, then you and your posse can jump him on the beach.


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## hobie (Nov 3, 2003)

Loopner,
I have no attitude here. I am simply showing why surfers have a hard time with kayakers in the line up. Not all kayakers as some do understand the way it works. Take Rusty Sage, John Grossman, and many others that paddle rivers and ocean but also know the etiquette. Yes, this dude dropped in going straight to left on a right hander that broke for a while down the cliffs. Did I whip him? No. Did I give him a good talking to in the line up? yes. And so do others that witnessed it. Also, I have a one inch scar about 3/4 of an inch from my right eye where his next air stroked and caught my head. Very deep and had it hit my eye would have been a very bad scene for me. And by the way, the dude even went out on the town with our group one night and I was very cool to him. Bottom line. Know what you are doing in a line up or surf where there is no crowd.

h


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## latenightjoneser (Feb 6, 2004)

I hope you taught him a lesson. That S.O.B.

ha ha 

:twisted: :twisted:


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## Bal (Mar 17, 2004)

Hey guys, I am an expat Aussie that moved to Colorado 3 years ago. I have finally decided to have a crack at WW kayaking this summer as a methadone equivalent for the ocean that I miss so much. (2 nights in the pool and I'm loving it already) 

I don't know what surfing in the US is like compared to Aus, but back home there a few issues to think about. Basically there are two rules of thumb for who has right of way on the wave. The first is whoever is on the wave first has right of way - so if you see someone already on a wave, don't catch it - simple. The other is rule is, the closest to the curl of the wave has right of way - so if you and a surfer are paddling for the same wave and he is closer to the curl (i.e. the breaking part of the wave), then he has right of way. 

But having said all that, basic manners must prevail particularly in relation to paddlers. A surfer on a short board essentially has to catch the wave at the point where it is starting to break - he has almost no momentum when padding a peice of foam that is less than 1inch thick and is sitting just below the surface of the water. He has to rely on the natural momentum of the wave to get him moving, so the take offs are very very late. A 10ft Malibu on the other hand can be up and riding on the swell of the wave before it even breaks. Then we have padlers which are at the extreme end of this - you are sitting on the suface of the water with a paddle to propel you - therefore you can be on the wave before a short board surfer has even started to paddle. 

I have never seen a surf kayaker in the section of coast that I surfed, but surfers in general had a real problem with paddlers with the surge of surf-skis (aka goat boaters) in the 1980's. Surf skis allowed people who had never surfed before to get out into the lineup. The problem then occurred when they thay had far superior paddling power and were on waves before anyone else. So then it comes down to manners. You can paddle out into a crowded surf break, just show some common courtesy. When you get out into the lineup, have a look around see who is out there and wait your turn. i.e. Don't paddle out there and take the first wave and then paddle stragith back out and get another one - there are only so many waves and you need to share them around. I hope this makes sense as I seem to be rambing now.....


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## Mysterious_Jho (Nov 23, 2003)

How disappointing to find this post on mtnbuzz. As a surfer first and boater a distant second, I ask you....YOU GO TO SANTA CRUZ AND EXPECT SOLITUDE? Its not going to happen. Then to
carry this reactionary grudge home and post on a message board about how "kayakers should learn manners?" looks really bad. Cmon, you are smarter than that.
Getting angry on the water is no different than giving the finger on the highway because someone cut you off. Both will make you look mentally inferior. 

We should all try to understand the real meaning of surfing which is to reach a peaceful and harmonious rhythm, not the corrupted system of localism and egomania which run rampant today.

I would suggest reading some of Duke Kahanamoku's writings it may shed some light for you. Duke always considered other surfers to be brothers, not adversaries. We can all learn.


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## Geezer (Oct 14, 2003)

Yeah, yeah, yeah... we are all brothers but there is protocol to be followed in most sporting activities and if you are going to play, then learn how to play. 

The surfers are probably not happy to see their territory invaded by a bunch of kayakers. The nerve! Same thing when mountain bikers invaded hiking trails or snowboarders invaded the ski slopes. Learn to play the right way (re: not offend) and you will be better accepted by the group that was there "first". Same thing would happen if the board surfers started showing up at the Golden WW park... there would be a bunch of pissed off kayakers for sure. The surfers would have to follow established etiquette for hole riding. 

Hobie - you were in the right and handled it the way it should have been handled. Poo-poo to all the nay sayers. :roll:


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## goatboater (Oct 18, 2003)

I was a surfer first, then a kayaker, then a surf kayaker, so I can see this topic from all the different sides. It works like this- us kayakers are essentially spoiled in terms of our resource, the river. We can sit at a playspot and surf all day long and the wave never goes away. For this reason, we usually don't have any problem sharing the wave. Out in the ocean, however, things are a little different. On a crowded day, you might get five good waves in three hours and that's a pretty good session. So you can understand that when someone snakes you from one of your waves, it's frustrating. It's pissed me off more than once, and I've probably come off as an asshole to people for getting pissed, but really I don't harbor any anger toward the person, it's just frustrating. Welcome to the real world. Share the waves, explain the rules to the rookies, and get out there to have fun, not to get pissed.


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## HINDS (Oct 14, 2003)

Surfing Story about Localism

You all have some interesting views. Whoever said paddle out there look around and let the people already out there take some waves was right. After 6 years of kayak surfing and some surfing (if you could call my skill level that) I know the rules. Most surfers are cool with you out there if you have the manners. One day I was in Barbados surfing a break which was large and fired only a few times a year. I was in a Prijon Delerium and it was some serious acceleration and fun. It gets dicy paddling out in a sort of point break as surfers are riding in. Usually you paddling your ass off in one direction and staying constant and them seeing you works. You get out of the way in time, no harm done. I had been out there for an hour, stretched and gone back out. I caught one of the largest waves of the day and was loving the surf down the line. I saw a surfer paddling out and tried to stay on the wave and miss him. Why that bastard did not duck dive I will never know. But I had to kick off the wave to avoid hitting him, I did spray him in the face full force and missed his face by about a foot. Was I in the wrong, I did not think so. But he paddled over to me and told me he was going to bash my head in with a rock when we got back on shore. After my local friends told me he has been shot multiple times by the police and was on the run I decided to leave, jumped in the car, threw my boat in the trunk and blazed. This is localism and a few encounters like this can make you jaded. Never have I had another incident like this. I back off the wave if someone else is riding it. Just be careful out there and represent surf kayakers.

NICK


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## Tweeker (Apr 13, 2004)

**********to the rookie (hobie)*******

Look dude if u don't know how to surf don't mess with the waves, just stay in the rockies and do some paddeling (know whats good for u) I don't think surfing is a good sport for a rookie like u. so u also got a cut on ur eye, sweet man! I wonder why, wait I know because ur not a good surfer. I think u should buy a begginers book about surfing and try to gain some basic knowledge about surfing and then think about going to the beaches. I 've been surfing my whole life, I moved from lajolla beach cali. U need coordination to surf. Real surfers don't bitch about little cuts.


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## benrodda (Mar 27, 2004)

Hey double..... the front ranger/texan comment stung a bit. Living on the wrong side of the tracks (divide) doesnt make you bad.... "Cant we all just get along?" HEHE


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## matts (Oct 29, 2003)

first of all, if you think peeling out of a wave in a kayak is more difficult than on a surfboard, then i suggest more practice before you paddle out into your next line-up.

i, too, grew up surfing, just down the street from where hobie's home break was. when i was in high school, we started surfing in kayaks on days when the breaks weren't all that. the above post from the guy from australia pretty much sums it up. first on gets it, closest to the lip keeps it.

hobie is absolutely correct in this matter.

imagine if you are surfing the kahuna on the dry's or the m-wave or throwin down in a hole and a paddler either drops in on you or paddles right into you for the eddy. 

there is etiquette on the river. as paddlers we take the time to learn the rules and practices before going out on the river, BEFORE SURFING OCEAN WAVES, LEARN THE RULES.

sincerely,

matt solomon


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## Jiberish (Oct 20, 2003)

Hey tweeker....

Why dont you put your name down? Its easy to bash and look big on the internet, especially when you dont put your name~ Also, can someone list the rules of surfing the ocean? im going to mexico soon......need to know so i dont get chased around by some big spanish soccerplaying surfdudes......

Also, does CHUNDERBOY have an opinion?

haha
Ben Guska


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## matts (Oct 29, 2003)

ben...i'll fill ya in on specifics between the huge airs we will be hucking the next time we boat. question: how do you spell P-A-D-D-L-I-N-G?

gimme a call if you can boat tomorrow...


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## bigboater (Dec 10, 2003)

Every time I'm on a beautiful remote river with high quality drops I wonder where everyone is at. Now I know. You are all slugin it out on the beach and at the local play spot. Keep it up I don't mind the solitude.


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## Jiberish (Oct 20, 2003)

HEy Matt...
I just got what you mean by the PADDLING, it only took me a few days, haha..Now there is no need to make fun of my whitetrash paddle...I actually tried a full (blade that is) paddle and i just didnt feel right, so perhaps when mine gets in ill have to sand er down.....haha....anyways.
sorry i couldnt make it today, but im heading out on friday about 4 ish......I think im bringin the video camera, so if your feelin up to life after death, I'll get it on tape.....Call me if you wanna go
Ben Guska


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## matts (Oct 29, 2003)

i wasn't just commenting on your paddle blades, i was poking fun at "tweeker" for not learning how to spell in the third grade.

friday afternoon sounds good, should be able to finish my work by then...i'll give ya a call or vice versa....

ms


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## Tweeker (Apr 13, 2004)

It is this simple, kayakers don't belong on my waves. If I see one of you, I'll shave your heads with my board. Hobie, if I see you in a board, I'll run over your sack. Let it be known that rivers are for yakers, ocean is for surfers! Don't mess around out there or you will get smoked and more cuts on your face.
For those of you that want my name, it is Alex "Ripcurl" Huber. I live in San Diego. 
"If you don't know, now you know."


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## Andy H. (Oct 13, 2003)

Sounds like yet another case of that old ailment - testosterone poisoning...

Jeez, like the guy said, "Can't we all just get along?"

--Andy


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## teach (Mar 31, 2004)

I say we all give ourselves cool nicknames to impress and intimidate each other. I'll be Brian "Hits Rocks" Riccatone. Yeah, that'll show em.


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## teach (Mar 31, 2004)

Ooops, did I just say that outloud?


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## Tweeker (Apr 13, 2004)

How bout I teach you a thing or two about surf etiquite:
Stay off of my damn waves you friggin kayaker!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Geezer (Oct 14, 2003)

Geez... I wonder what brought that surfing TWEAKER to a 'friggin kayaker' website in the first place? Whadda dick.


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## Tweeker (Apr 13, 2004)

Geezer, come out to Cali and let me shred on you and Hobies heads.


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## Geezer (Oct 14, 2003)

Naw... Cali ain't my kind of place. Since Hobie and I live here, you should have to come out to "shred on my and Hobie's head" - whatever the heck that means (I'm just an old geezer). Does that make sense or what? You want to shred us but we have to go out there to get shredded? You come here and we will surf some waves together. Too bad Big Sur isn't going to run this year. We could have a surf-off with TWEAKER, Hobie and geezer. 

I really hope all of us have a nice boating season and get along well on the waves. Surfers too. I'm outa here for the weekend.


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