# Boundary Creek 2021



## IDriverRunner

It's never too early to start speculating on when the road to the Middle Fork will be open.... right?!

Well, here are the current conditions as of yesterday afternoon:


----------



## MT4Runner

Between a plague, murder hornets and avalanches, 2020 was plenty interesting.
Are we betting on boring snowpack delays or more crazy interesting delays?!

My pick is May 18. I had a 5/20 preseason invite that I'll miss to attend my youngest daughter's HS graduation, so I'm betting it will be open and my group goes and has a great trip.


----------



## LJPurvis

MT4Runner said:


> Between a plague, murder hornets and avalanches, 2020 was plenty interesting.
> Are we betting on boring snowpack delays or more crazy interesting delays?!
> 
> My pick is May 18. I had a 5/20 preseason invite that I'll miss to attend my youngest daughter's HS graduation, so I'm betting it will be open and my group goes and has a great trip.


I hope you are right. I have a trip for May 23!


----------



## carvedog

Nope. It smells different. Also gnarly faceted layer that will unleash all kinds avalanchular mayhem. June 4th is my guess.


----------



## codycleve

you got lucky they just closed banner for avalanche danger again. I'm with carvedog, the last couple of years the snow didn't even start until February. Regardless if I am feeling a big snowpack and put in for august dates it will tank and we wont get any snow but if i put in for early June it's going to snow like it's never snowed before lol.


----------



## Wadeinthewater

Predict early, predict often and remind them when you're right.


----------



## roundboater

carvedog said:


> Nope. It smells different. Also gnarly faceted layer that will unleash all kinds avalanchular mayhem. June 4th is my guess.


Avalanchular Mayhem. Great band name!😉


----------



## DidNotWinLottery

Looks good to go to me.


----------



## DarrylH

No prediction on road opening - just looked at Idaho snowpack and found this:
(Wife insists on a post-surgery test river run this spring before I get cleared to solicit river invites...)









https://www.wcc.nrcs.usda.gov/ftpref/support/water/SummaryReports/ID/BPrecip_1_2021.pdf?


----------



## NativeDiver

It is starting look like Boundary will be open around 5/23. I have heard the lead vehicle has a pretty open choice on camp sites when they arrive at the launch?


----------



## carvedog

NativeDiver said:


> It is starting look like Boundary will be open around 5/23. I have heard the lead vehicle has a pretty open choice on camp sites when they arrive at the launch?


What would possibly make you think this date?

And no vehicles are allowed on the MF. But I guess you mean camping at the put in....which is pretty wide open.


----------



## duct tape

Still have my chips on the table for Jerry. Hard to go against his call.


----------



## carvedog

duct tape said:


> Still have my chips on the table for Jerry. Hard to go against his call.


Thanks Jon. My guess (hope?) was pretty off the cuff...I hadn't even looked at the Banner Snotel. Things are not looking very spicy on the Middle Fork this spring. Hot and dusty this last week...(sigh)!


----------



## jamesg

Following...5/24 launch that's looking more possible with each passing day.


----------



## jamesg

SWE @ Banner is tanking. Must be hot up there. 

Any guesses on road opening?


----------



## UseTheSpinMove

It's been hot as heck around here! Cold today though.


----------



## Wallrat

We launch in ten days...i don't think we'll be so lucky.


----------



## carvedog

Wallrat said:


> We launch in ten days...i don't think we'll be so lucky.


I don't understand....are you wanting it to be warm or to stay cold until you launch?


----------



## MT4Runner

Wallrat said:


> We launch in ten days...i don't think we'll be so lucky.


You weren't planning to run Marsh...were hoping for Boundary to open all along?


----------



## Wallrat

We’re going to do Marsh only because we have to do it to get to the Middle. And if we have to do it, I’d a lot rather it were cold, with flows around 2’.
Or, I’d be happy with higher flows, and a bouncy ride from Boundary. Right now, my nightmares are a 3’+ flow, with Marsh full of strainers and floating trees.
It’s looking pretty good today, 2.40’ and falling, then forecast for warm temperatures on launch day.


----------



## IDriverRunner

Wallrat said:


> We’re going to do Marsh only because we have to do it to get to the Middle. And if we have to do it, I’d a lot rather it were cold, with flows around 2’.
> Or, I’d be happy with higher flows, and a bouncy ride from Boundary. Right now, my nightmares are a 3’+ flow, with Marsh full of strainers and floating trees.
> It’s looking pretty good today, 2.40’ and falling, then forecast for warm temperatures on launch day.


I am VERY interested to hear your trip report when you get back! Stay warm and safe!


----------



## Wallrat

IDriverRunner said:


> I am VERY interested to hear your trip report when you get back! Stay warm and safe!


A friend of my partner flew it this morning. There are a few trees across Marsh Creek, but no avi debris blockages. Snow as far as Indian Creek, but the runway looked dry.


----------



## carvedog

It doesn't get full of strainers until you get flows up in the 4 to 5 foot range. Not enough velocity or speed to move much around.


----------



## jamesg

Looking like a similar year to 2007. Great for us preseason launches. 



https://www.usbr.gov/uc/water/hydrodata/stf/Lower%20Snake/Mf%20Salmon%20R%20at%20Mf%20Lodge.html



Is it true that the road opening usually correlates to ~10in SWE? If so, I predict 5/11.


----------



## Wallrat

I picked the 4/15 timeframe because it looked like the last time before the big melt happens. On average levels really jump mid April. So, we’re looking very good for the 4/16 launch. Levels are in the mid 2’ now. That’s perfect! We won’t be hung up on rocks all day, and won’t be dodging floating trees.


----------



## carvedog

jamesg said:


> Is it true that the road opening usually correlates to ~10in SWE? If so, I predict 5/11.


We actually made it in a few days later in 2007. We launched on May 16th. 
But it is much more than just SWE although that is one of the biggest considerations. 
There are many factors that influence your ability to get in. Night time freeze thaw cycles average daily temps and that type of thing. It was very warm that spring so it was relatively easy. Another year we went in just below 10 on the SWE at Banner and had to work our asses off. A well armed and provisioned crew (shovels and beer, or whiskey for me) can get a lot done, I have also seen some folks really struggle to get in there too.

The main thing that I want to emphasize to anyone contemplating 'opening' the road' is to STAY ON THE ROAD.

If there is too much collateral resource damage to the edges of the road (and one year a bunch of people just drove up on the sidehill near the top) the FS can close the entire access. Don't fuck this up please. 

Don't make trenches in the road surface spinning out. There have been several different rangers in the last 25 years that I have been organizing private trips out there. I have talked to nearly all of them. They do not want to close the road but they also are tasked with protecting the resource. 

Everyone is hungry to get on the water and there are few non-rollover permits available, which makes it even more challenging. So please do it the right way.


----------



## Liam Hurlburt

carvedog said:


> There are many factors that influence your ability to get in. Night time freeze thaw cycles average daily temps and that type of thing. It was very warm that spring so it was relatively easy. Another year we went in just below 10 on the SWE at Banner and had to work our asses off. A well armed and provisioned crew (shovels and beer, or whiskey for me) can get a lot done, I have also seen some folks really struggle to get in there too.
> 
> The main thing that I want to emphasize to anyone contemplating 'opening' the road' is to STAY ON THE ROAD.


Would you mind elaborating a bit on freeze/thaw cycles and temps and what exactly you're looking at? Or is it just sorta a gut feeling, a " watch the conditions for a few years and you'll get a feel for it" type thing? 

Oh also while I'm here - Huge thanks to MT4Runner, codycleve, bsimcoe, IDriverRunner, carvedog, and all the rest of you that post info to these MFS threads every year. It's invaluable, truly, and enormously appreciated. BenSlaughter and his momma literally saved my trip (5/23 launch) last year! It was my first middle fork trip, and one of the best river trips I've ever been on. I hope someday I have the privilege to meet you all in person, cause I owe every one of you a beer!


----------



## sbarker

Well...........jerry what does it look like now. I know a team May 16th is going. Looks like it might be an easier year. That team has never faced battle in there before. We got a pretty awesome launch date so hoping we don't have to do all the work this year. Any pics would be sweet.


----------



## jrichins

Swe today on banner summit is at 13.4 and total depth is at 31 inches. Im really not stoked on my may 5th trip down marsh with the wood reports ive seen so far and with the river forecast to rise over 4ft in the next few days. Anyone going up to check out the boundary creek rd this weekend?


----------



## Liam Hurlburt

jrichins said:


> Swe today on banner summit is at 13.4 and total depth is at 31 inches. Im really not stoked on my may 5th trip down marsh with the wood reports ive seen so far and with the river forecast to rise over 4ft in the next few days. Anyone going up to check out the boundary creek rd this weekend?


I can't speak to the road, but where are you seeing the river will rise by 4ft? AHPS MFS at MF lodge shows a bump coming, but not that much










Either way, good luck with your trip!


----------



## jrichins

I meant that the river will be rising to over 4ft according to the guesses on that same graph. I didnt mean it was supposed to rise four additional feet. I also know those are just forecasts and seldom accurate. Im actually hoping for it to raise enough to flush some of that junk out.


----------



## carvedog

sbarker said:


> Well...........jerry what does it look like now. I know a team May 16th is going. Looks like it might be an easier year. That team has never faced battle in there before. We got a pretty awesome launch date so hoping we don't have to do all the work this year. Any pics would be sweet.


You have nothing to worry about for May 16. Except it might be dusty.


----------



## carvedog

Liam Hurlburt said:


> Would you mind elaborating a bit on freeze/thaw cycles and temps and what exactly you're looking at? Or is it just sorta a gut feeling, a " watch the conditions for a few years and you'll get a feel for it" type thing?
> 
> Oh also while I'm here - Huge thanks to MT4Runner, codycleve, bsimcoe, IDriverRunner, carvedog, and all the rest of you that post info to these MFS threads every year. It's invaluable, truly, and enormously appreciated. BenSlaughter and his momma literally saved my trip (5/23 launch) last year! It was my first middle fork trip, and one of the best river trips I've ever been on. I hope someday I have the privilege to meet you all in person, cause I owe every one of you a beer!


There are lots of previous year comparisons on SWE at Banner and other significant snotel sites on the USBR site. 

SWE at Banner does not directly translate into if it is this number (x) it will be open. High temps followed by hard freezes at night do different things to the melt rate than warm temps that don't freeze at night. Yes it is kind of gut thing, but I also look at prior years SWE and to get really into it I look at time at highest temperature and time of freeze. This is what I do to keep me from productive work. I don't have to do any of that this year. I got invited on a May 30th and I expect it to be normal year mid July flows then. So the fishing will be good. I don't envy my outfitter friends as it will likely be the lowest we have seen in August since 2002. God help us all that the West doesn't totally burn down this year. 

As for a prediction on road opening I have been too busy to even look at the road so it's tough to guess. Mid May launches should have no problem.


----------



## sbarker

carvedog said:


> You have nothing to worry about for May 16. Except it might be dusty.


I will be in there May 26th.....great launch date.......I think the rest of the world will be there too.


----------



## Liam Hurlburt

carvedog said:


> SWE at Banner does not directly translate into if it is this number (x) it will be open. High temps followed by hard freezes at night do different things to the melt rate than warm temps that don't freeze at night. Yes it is kind of gut thing, but I also look at prior years SWE and to get really into it I look at time at highest temperature and time of freeze.


So if a few days are warm and sunny but then freeze hard again that night, the snowpack consolidates and gets icy and then doesn't melt as fast on subsequent days? That makes sense. Thanks!



carvedog said:


> This is what I do to keep me from productive work.


Idk what you mean, what more productive work could there be? 😂


----------



## jpurkiss

carvedog said:


> There are lots of previous year comparisons on SWE at Banner and other significant snotel sites on the USBR site.
> 
> SWE at Banner does not directly translate into if it is this number (x) it will be open. High temps followed by hard freezes at night do different things to the melt rate than warm temps that don't freeze at night. Yes it is kind of gut thing, but I also look at prior years SWE and to get really into it I look at time at highest temperature and time of freeze. This is what I do to keep me from productive work. I don't have to do any of that this year. I got invited on a May 30th and I expect it to be normal year mid July flows then. So the fishing will be good. I don't envy my outfitter friends as it will likely be the lowest we have seen in August since 2002. God help us all that the West doesn't totally burn down this year.
> 
> As for a prediction on road opening I have been too busy to even look at the road so it's tough to guess. Mid May launches should have no problem.


See you out there, we are launching the same day.


----------



## carvedog

jpurkiss said:


> See you out there, we are launching the same day.


Cheers! Large blue Maravia with some old logos still visible, bimini, group of about 15. Please do say hello.


----------



## studytime

We are launching on the 12th. Hoping to get into Boundary Creek. Bringing a few shovels.


----------



## jtn4148

studytime said:


> We are launching on the 12th. Hoping to get into Boundary Creek. Bringing a few shovels.


We are launching May 11th, Bringing shovels and chain saws. Looks like 6 groups are coming in that day, we will get that road open.


----------



## jamesg

Thanks for all the hard work teams. We have a 5/24 launch and are so grateful. 

Off topic sorry, but do they assign camps for Preseason launches?


----------



## studytime

Nice! Thank you for getting the road open. Maybe we will see you on the river.


----------



## jtn4148

jamesg said:


> Thanks for all the hard work teams. We have a 5/24 launch and are so grateful.
> 
> Off topic sorry, but do they assign camps for Preseason launches?


Yes, It's all done thru email. When I sent my camp list, the ranger told me they will assign them 6 days before launch.


----------



## carvedog

You will have your work cut out for you. It is warming up later this week to give you some hope.
This photo taken Sunday at 2: pm.

I recommend muck boots of some kind, square toed landscaper shovel, aluminum scoop shovel and a few pairs of gloves. I use the light mechanics ones that are kind of rubberized and still protect when wet. Oh yeah, chains too and a high clearance 4WD. A week can make a lot of difference in this view. The one year there were about 15 of us at it for around 6 or 7 hours. Not trying to talk you out of trying, just be prepared - it may be a marathon not a sprint. Weirdly, in looking for an extended temperature forecast, Ketchum is closer to the temps on Banner than Lowman or Stanley on accuweather anyway.

Please stay on the road.


----------



## scoop

5/13 launch. I just have a wimpy stock four wheel drive Tacoma and no winch. Are you guys in 4x4 machines?


----------



## carvedog

A winch won't help much. Where you need to get thru any anchors are pretty far away and would only pull you toward the side. Some of these guys are trying three days before you.


----------



## jtn4148

Thanks for the info carvedog, I hope we can actually make it in. I've never tried to open the road before, but some of our group has. We will do our best. I suppose if I don't post anything after May 13, you can assume we made it and our floating down, otherwise I'll post a failed status here and how far we got...


----------



## MT4Runner

Does anyone ever air down and chain up?
...or does that cause hassles for the shuttle coming back out with your rig?


----------



## sbarker

I don’t go in there without chains


----------



## tBatt

carvedog said:


> I got invited on a May 30th and I expect it to be normal year mid July flows then.
> 
> As for a prediction on road opening I have been too busy to even look at the road so it's tough to guess. Mid May launches should have no problem.





jpurkiss said:


> See you out there, we are launching the same day.


@natepelton is lanching 5/30 as well. 

5/29 Launch here. Going thru to Carey Creek. 6/1 through the confluence for us. Was thinking we might have a bit more water, but we'll see..


----------



## MT4Runner

tBatt said:


> @natepelton is lanching 5/30 as well.
> 
> 5/29 Launch here. Going thru to Carey Creek. 6/1 through the confluence for us. Was thinking we might have a bit more water, but we'll see..


dang, you're going to have to be movin!


----------



## cjohnson415

Hey all, we are planning a Main Salmon run for launching on 5/11. But based on this thread, we're trying to see if getting into Boundary might be possible and doing a 5/11 MF launch would work.

Shuttle company said they haven't heard anyone get through and so as of now they aren't willing to pickup our cars at Boundary.

Any thoughts or advice on whether or how this might be feasible? We had previously avoided the MF as we didn't want to deal with the wood in Marsh Creek.


----------



## tBatt

jtn4148 said:


> We are launching May 11th, Bringing shovels and chain saws. Looks like 6 groups are coming in that day, we will get that road open.





cjohnson415 said:


> Hey all, we are planning a Main Salmon run for launching on 5/11. But based on this thread, we're trying to see if getting into Boundary might be possible and doing a 5/11 MF launch would work.
> 
> Shuttle company said they haven't heard anyone get through and so as of now they aren't willing to pickup our cars at Boundary.
> 
> Any thoughts or advice on whether or how this might be feasible? We had previously avoided the MF as we didn't want to deal with the wood in Marsh Creek.


Grab a shovel and join the folks on the previous page.


----------



## cjohnson415

tBatt said:


> Grab a shovel and join the folks on the previous page.


tBatt – that's exactly what I was thinking. We're game for it and have the cars for it. Our main challenge is getting the shuttle company to agree to pick up our cars. Any advice on that or alternatives for running the shuttle?


----------



## MT4Runner

Get there a day or two early, go shovel...and line up the shuttle from cell range in Stanley?


----------



## carvedog

Why don't make your kayakers drive them out to Hiway 21 and then run Marsh Creek back to Boundary.


----------



## cjohnson415

Thanks all. Found another shuttle co who said if we can get our cars in then they'll happily pick them up. Trying to getting touch with jtn4148 to see if we can coordinate a team effort to open the road. Our group doesn't have any experience opening the road, but we have 9 people willing to help, 6 of whom are very tall and strong (not me).


----------



## MT4Runner

cjohnson415 said:


> we have 9 people willing to help, 6 of whom are very tall and strong (not me).


OK, we're sending you ahead in the snow tunnel with the stick of dynamite. Good luck!


----------



## roundboater

MT4Runner said:


> dang, you're going to have to be movin!


Agree. Why burn through such a magical place?


----------



## tBatt

roundboater said:


> Agree. Why burn through such a magical place?


So I have enough vacation time to get to Gates of Lodore and the Rogue this summer, too.


----------



## MT4Runner

To each their own.
Some people love cranking out both river and highway miles.

Personally, I'd rather trade more river days for fewer windshield days. Once I get there, I don't want to be anywhere else.

I hope you all enjoy each and every river mile this season, however you choose to enjoy it.


----------



## kateb

@jtn4148, I am launching on May 14 and would very much appreciate an update if y'all don't make it through. Good luck and big thanks to you, @cjohnson415, and anyone else heading in there!


----------



## jtn4148

kateb said:


> @jtn4148, I am launching on May 14 and would very much appreciate an update if y'all don't make it through. Good luck and big thanks to you, @cjohnson415, and anyone else heading in there!


If you don't hear anything by May 13, you should assume we made it and are floating down.


----------



## kateb

@jtn4148 excellent. I hope you have a great trip.


----------



## kateb

oh and @cjohnson415, in case our shuttle company does not agree that the road is passable, who did you end up going with?


----------



## Rafterdave208

I have a May 17th Middle fork Salmon launch and the reports from Marsh creek are brutal! I have no desire to navigate numerous portages on Marsh creek with Cat boats. I would be driving up on the 16th or morning of the 17th of May. Does anybody know if the road to Boundary is open? Thanks


----------



## cjohnson415

kateb said:


> oh and @cjohnson415, in case our shuttle company does not agree that the road is passable, who did you end up going with?


Blackadar boating. They said: "If you can get in, then we'll get you out".

I'll post a report here if we don't get in. If we do get in, we will be texting our shuttle company Blackadar with our InReach, so you could call Blackadar on May 11th or 12th and Jerry should know if we got in or not and can pass on the message.


----------



## MT4Runner

Rafterdave208 said:


> I have a May 17th Middle fork Salmon launch and the reports from Marsh creek are brutal! I have no desire to navigate numerous portages on Marsh creek with Cat boats. I would be driving up on the 16th or morning of the 17th of May. Does anybody know if the road to Boundary is open? Thanks


read back a few posts.


----------



## Rafterdave208

MT4Runner said:


> read back a few posts.


Thanks


----------



## Nickdanger

I just picked up a 5/20 launch. For a self-support kayak trip with a solid crew, how gnarly will Marsh be? I've never run it, so I have no sense for the gradient etc. I don't mind portaging a bunch of times, but I don't like the idea of blind horizon lines with strainers lurking out of sight and no eddies to be found. Of course, if Boundary is open, we'll go there. Also, should I assume +1 day? Thanks!


----------



## kayakfreakus

Nickdanger said:


> I just picked up a 5/20 launch. For a self-support kayak trip with a solid crew, how gnarly will Marsh be? I've never run it, so I have no sense for the gradient etc. I don't mind portaging a bunch of times, but I don't like the idea of blind horizon lines with strainers lurking out of sight and no eddies to be found. Of course, if Boundary is open, we'll go there. Also, should I assume +1 day? Thanks!



Maybe just read this thread that says people are trying to open the road before you, or the numerous other posts, or the TR specific to Marsh - love the hype, but a little reading answers most questions. I am just bitter not going to Idaho this year most likely…


----------



## jamesg

Nickdanger said:


> I just picked up a 5/20 launch. For a self-support kayak trip with a solid crew, how gnarly will Marsh be? I've never run it, so I have no sense for the gradient etc. I don't mind portaging a bunch of times, but I don't like the idea of blind horizon lines with strainers lurking out of sight and no eddies to be found. Of course, if Boundary is open, we'll go there. Also, should I assume +1 day? Thanks!


Road should be open. Boundary’s at 36% and there are numerous crews going in with shovels and chainsaws this week.


----------



## roundboater

Nickdanger said:


> I just picked up a 5/20 launch. For a self-support kayak trip with a solid crew, how gnarly will Marsh be? I've never run it, so I have no sense for the gradient etc. I don't mind portaging a bunch of times, but I don't like the idea of blind horizon lines with strainers lurking out of sight and no eddies to be found. Of course, if Boundary is open, we'll go there. Also, should I assume +1 day? Thanks!


I’ve run Marsh Creek 5 times for early season trips. The earliest trip was May 17, 2012.The gauge was 6.9’ I run a cataraft. It is definitely the hardest part of the MF trip. There isn’t a straight section in it and there are blind horizon lines. We have been very fortunate with no issues. I have seen many boats pinned and abandoned however.—An eerie sight. We run a tight crew with kayakers, carry radios and set clear communication at the put in. It took us 3 hours. It’s always a good feeling when you reach the conference on bear Valley Creek and marsh Creek. The river gets bigger and visibility does too. If the level is 5’ or above, it is bank full with no with few eddies to catch. There is a large sign that warns you of dagger falls and a nice Eddie with trail to the scout. It is definitely a rewarding experience after successfully going over DaggerFalls but I am usually gripped until then. Hope that helps and have a good time. I recommend getting Matt Leideckers guidebook. It is an excellent resource and it gives you the high points of marsh Creek


----------



## Nickdanger

roundboater said:


> I’ve run Marsh Creek 5 times for early season trips. The earliest trip was May 17, 2012.The gauge was 6.9’ I run a cataraft. It is definitely the hardest part of the MF trip. There isn’t a straight section in it and there are blind horizon lines. We have been very fortunate with no issues. I have seen many boats pinned and abandoned however.—An eerie sight. We run a tight crew with kayakers, carry radios and set clear communication at the put in. It took us 3 hours. It’s always a good feeling when you reach the conference on bear Valley Creek and marsh Creek. The river gets bigger and visibility does too. If the level is 5’ or above, it is bank full with no with few eddies to catch. There is a large sign that warns you of dagger falls and a nice Eddie with trail to the scout. It is definitely a rewarding experience after successfully going over DaggerFalls but I am usually gripped until then. Hope that helps and have a good time. I recommend getting Matt Leideckers guidebook. It is an excellent resource and it gives you the high points of marsh Creek


Thank you for the detailed description—valuable beta if the road-opening crews aren’t successful.(1,000 thank-yous for your efforts regardless). I’ll pick up Leideckers’ book for sure.


----------



## Esod1981

Following, I'm on a 5-24 launch.


----------



## shortbus

I posted this to a different thread a few days ago:
We have run Marsh many times and are very familiar with the run and the usual debris magnets. I would not say this year was much out of ordinary, except that no high water surge has yet come through to purge the creek...

My party of 7 kayakers launched on 5/2. We encountered 6-8 strainer/ wood jams. We were able to push our way around 4 of them though the rocks on the bank. One jam was multiple logs and river wide, which we walked on the right. There was another full-river log below the canyon that we walked, but noticed folks before us had cut out limbs to pass under, presumably when the creek was lower. There were two parties ahead of us, one of which had a puma and a small cat. It looks like they carried around all the obstacles without issue.
The rapid in Sluicebox canyon had a couple of logs on the right bank, but neither were in play unless you found yourself over there by accident.
It looked like we were riding the result of a rain-on-snow event and that levels have since tapered off and then rose again. Predictions look to level off with the cold temps coming in.


----------



## carvedog

46 degrees in Stanley and it looks like it's trying to snow. Could be a rough day up on the pass. Still snow on the road by the turnout at the parking lot on Saturday evening and not super warm yesterday. I have had challenges getting in when this 
part of the road had no snow cover. You don't know until you try. It could be a real battle for those guys. I need whiskey not beer for this type of digging in.


----------



## tBatt

Updated: Pardon my ig'nance. 

Also, 5/30 permit might be opening up.


----------



## sbarker

cjohnson415 said:


> Thanks all. Found another shuttle co who said if we can get our cars in then they'll happily pick them up. Trying to getting touch with jtn4148 to see if we can coordinate a team effort to open the road. Our group doesn't have any experience opening the road, but we have 9 people willing to help, 6 of whom are very tall and strong (not me).


Prepare for war and make sure you give yourself a full day.


----------



## bsimcoe

The Forest Service has been very clear on this. DO NOT use any excavation equipment to open the road. Caught doing so would result in a full on road closure to Boundary Cr. That would be the end of May trips accept via Marsh Cr.


----------



## cjohnson415

Neither JTN's group not our group got in today. Too much snow for the vehies we had. We're both headed to the main. Good luck to the other brave soldiers!


----------



## Jhaagenson

CJohnson, thank you for the update. Our group was planning to go in tomorrow. Would you be willing to chat on the phone for a few minutes about the conditions you ran into? Do you think anyone can pass or is this pretty much impassable regardless of the vehicle you are going with?


----------



## carvedog

bsimcoe said:


> The Forest Service has been very clear on this. DO NOT use any excavation equipment to open the road. Caught doing so would result in a full on road closure to Boundary Cr. That would be the end of May trips accept via Marsh Cr.


Yeah they threatened me with a $10K fine too....


----------



## trevorhaagenson

cjohnson415,

I am planning to drive in to Boundary Creek tomorrow afternoon. We have a lifted Dodge 4wd with heavy duty chains for all 4 wheels. Based on what you saw today do you believe the road would be passable to someone in a vehicle different than yours or did you find a 5 foot tall snowbank? What were you driving? I sent you a private message with my phone number but I (and I'm sure others) would be grateful for some more details if you have them.

Cheers,

Trevor


----------



## studytime

We are hoping to get in Wednesday. Would love a report from anybody. 406-407-1343. We will be in Stanley tomorrow night.


----------



## studytime

Anybody planning to do Marsh Creek if they don't get in? We've got two kayakers to go ahead of us and radio about strainers and eddies. Im not worried about portaging log jams. I like marathons. How come the guys today didnt jsut put on Marsh Creek?


----------



## 2scared2go

Well I agree. 
I'm actually a part of that group today and I didn't get a say so. We've also ditches guys I didn't want to put in a little extra effort considering we're already here and drove 15 hours to get in here we're taking out a Heller bar the full entire Salmon River Run I've spent so much money time and planning to be dictated because they couldn't get in at boundary Creek we already knew that we couldn't get in the boundary Creek so for the last two months I've been telling people let's go to Marsh Creek so I will go with you guys tomorrow Marsh Creek knowing that we have saved the kayakers I'm a boater in 30 years white water rescue and instructor Whitewater guide trainer and many other credentials that I have on the water and off the water call me 425 359 3030 
T


----------



## trevorhaagenson

Can you give a description of the condition of the road? How much snow? how far did you make it? What were you driving?

Thanks,

Trevor


----------



## carvedog

Good old FS Road 579. I would actually love to be up there and try to help get in because I must be a masochist of some sort. I would venture to say that I have spent more time on that pass in the last 20 years than anyone I know of. So here is what I know. Things start to get interesting after the gravel pit. There is slight shaded switchback that can hold quite a bit of snow. I call this the first challenge. It doesn't get much sun so it can be at least a couple of ft deep. After you get thru that 200 to 300 yards the long steady uphill 3/4 mile might not be too bad or deep as it gets decent sun. The first gentle right turn up the hill is where it gets more serious. The ultimate set up is first vehicle chained and ready and the 'removal' vehicle ready to back up to it to pull it back out of the snow bank. Then chop snow to soften and break up, shovel to remove what you can and repeat as necessary. Speed can help you thru some of the smaller snowbanks, but it can bury your vehicle if you just launch into them. Better to do smaller bites. Back out when you can, shovel, chop and try again. The best rig I have seen up there was a lifted diesel rig running 35s with a flatbed so you could access under the frame. I know you aren't bringing that necessarily, just saying.

Plastic shovels suck. You will break them. Mostly you will need long handled shovels (square landscaper shovels my favorite) to reach the frame rails or under the front axle that will high centered. Did I say regular snow shovels suck? They do. You will hate yourself.

So now you have made it up the hill to the last 1/3 of a mile. I would expect at least the 2-3 feet ( or more at the very summit) thru this last section. I have been stuck in here so deep that I had to crawl out the window.

If and once you do make it thru the summit, there may or may not be an avalanche path at the bottom of the long downhill on the other side. And once past that you will get to the logging portion of the expedition. One year we cut 20 deadfall off the road. I was almost wishing I brought more gas for the chainsaw but we made it. Once down the hill and the avy path, you should not encounter much snow to challenge.

Be prepared for the FS to show up. One year we opened the road and the next morning the FS showed up at about 10 am in our camp. Uh Hello there officer.

And PLEASE for the love of access do not drive off the road to get around the snowbanks. If we don't self regulate this the FS will. Most of the rangers are decent and know what we are up against, but they are tasked with protecting the resource and if we don't, they will. Please don't F this up.


----------



## carvedog

Avy path at bottom of hill two years ago. This made the summit look easy.


----------



## carvedog

The Summit


----------



## coult45

carvedog said:


> Avy path at bottom of hill two years ago. This made the summit look easy.



I’ve gotta know, how do these FS rangers arrive? Snowmobiles?


----------



## carvedog

coult45 said:


> I’ve gotta know, how do these FS rangers arrive? Snowmobiles?


The road we had just opened. After six or eight vehicles go thru and then you get your trailers which scrapes it down more it's much easier.


----------



## Whitewater Worthy Equip

I just released 5/22. Someone should use it!!!!


----------



## duct tape

Jerry, you have convinced me if I ever get the urge to join an early season shovel party, to just lie down until it goes away!

. Jon


----------



## duct tape

carvedog said:


> The Summit


so the second (avy path) pic is suggesting that the celebratory beers at the summit were premature?🤓😳😀


----------



## carvedog

duct tape said:


> so the second (avy path) pic is suggesting that the celebratory beers at the summit were premature?🤓😳😀


That year we lucked out and had smooth sailing in and only a bit of logging. Two years ago we had the debris path from hell. Busted up trees and branches throughout and how should I say...quiet firm. It's pretty neat to be the first ones in for the spring though.


----------



## studytime

We are going in tomorrow. 12 of us. Two chainsaws. Lots of shovels. Big trucks. We will be sending Blackadar a message when we get in to do our shuttles. You can check with them about our progress. 

And we wont drive off the road.


----------



## LZMJRAFT

Yay git er done hats off to you!


----------



## mlbeck44

cjohnson415 said:


> Hey all, we are planning a Main Salmon run for launching on 5/11. But based on this thread, we're trying to see if getting into Boundary might be possible and doing a 5/11 MF launch would work.
> 
> Shuttle company said they haven't heard anyone get through and so as of now they aren't willing to pickup our cars at Boundary.
> 
> Any thoughts or advice on whether or how this might be feasible? We had previously avoided the MF as we didn't want to deal with the wood in Marsh Creek.





jtn4148 said:


> We are launching May 11th, Bringing shovels and chain saws. Looks like 6 groups are coming in that day, we will get that road open.


Hope you guys got to launch from Boundary Creek. Have a great time on the river!!


----------



## Montanamade1

Any further update if any of the groups made it in? Hoping to launch on the 14th. Jerry at blackadar hadn’t hear back from all the people going in


----------



## IDriverRunner

Montanamade1 said:


> Any further update if any of the groups made it in? Hoping to launch on the 14th. Jerry at blackadar hadn’t hear back from all the people going in


They are probably still shoveling. Hoping to hear something this evening... or is this a "no news is good news" situation, meaning they are boating?


----------



## Montanamade1

Any further word on if people made it in? Trying to launch Saturday morning and need to make a decision soon to start driving or book a plane into Indian, blackadar shuttles hadn’t heard anything else


----------



## carvedog

With temps yesterday, today and projected for tomorrow. I can't imagine you won't be able to get in. My two cents.


----------



## Nickdanger

From their shuttle company at @11 MT today, 5/23: "No word yet." Perhaps that means they got in and are rigging and will send word to the shuttle company just before casting off. Finalizing shuttle is always the very last thing I do in case something comes up and arrangements need to be changed. Or maybe they dug a snow cave, camped on the road and are back at it now!


----------



## MT4Runner

Not gonna lie, it's kind of exciting that they are off the grid and we're not getting immediate updates.

Knowing exactly where they got to would be boring!


----------



## mlbeck44

carvedog said:


> With temps yesterday, today and projected for tomorrow. I can't imagine you won't be able to get in. My two cents.


A friend of mine called the ranger station. She said she was told that the ranger was only able to drive in about one mile. I sure hope they took some heavy duty shovels!


----------



## carvedog

mlbeck44 said:


> A friend of mine called the ranger station. She said she was told that the ranger was only able to drive in about one mile. I sure hope they took some heavy duty shovels!


Pretty sure I could drive in a mile without putting it in 4WD and that was Sunday. Not minimizing how much snow, but the rangers don't ever try to dig in and they have never driven in to see how far they can go before getting stuck. Solo. With no one else around....that would be me.


----------



## raftus

I spoke to Blackadar and he is planning to go in on Sunday May 16th... But he hadn't heard from any of the crews that were trying to get in so far. Banner Summit SNOTEL is losing 2-3" a day right now, down to 6", and overnight lows are barely forecast to go below freezing (29-34ºF) with highs in the mid 50's-70's the next few days (depending on which forecast you use). SWE (snow water equivalent) is down to 3.2" and dropped about 1.2" in the last 24 hours. We have a permit for Monday May 17th and I think we will get in either Sunday afternoon or Monday. Apparently there is a crew going in on Saturday that has opened the road several times before. I have never opened the road or tried to predict an opening date, so take this with a grain of salt, and preferably some tequila and a lime. Also the last update I got was 4-6 portages for rafts on Marsh Creek but that kayaks _might_ be able to skirt them/do a little rock hop shuffle to get through.


----------



## mlbeck44

Thanks so much for the update!!


----------



## MikeG

raftus said:


> I spoke to Blackadar and he is planning to go in on Sunday May 16th... But he hadn't heard from any of the crews that were trying to get in so far. Banner Summit SNOTEL is losing 2-3" a day right now, down to 6", and overnight lows are barely forecast to go below freezing (29-34ºF) with highs in the mid 50's-70's the next few days (depending on which forecast you use). SWE (snow water equivalent) is down to 3.2" and dropped about 1.2" in the last 24 hours. We have a permit for Monday May 17th and I think we will get in either Sunday afternoon or Monday. Apparently there is a crew going in on Saturday that has opened the road several times before. I have never opened the road or tried to predict an opening date, so take this with a grain of salt, and preferably some tequila and a lime. Also the last update I got was 4-6 portages for rafts on Marsh Creek but that kayaks _might_ be able to skirt them/do a little rock hop shuffle to get through.


Last week (@4.5 ft) we had only two strainers to walk around with our kayaks and both in very easy places to do so. Would be a bit more of an ordeal with rafts but not terrible if they were light and small. In several other places we were able to scoot over logs safely. That might be different with lower water.


----------



## raftus

I spoke to two other shuttle companies today. No one has made it in yet and a large crew got turned around on Thursday. Guesstimates for opening vary from tomorrow May 15th to Friday May 21st with move votes for the later end of that range. If I get back to service before we launch I'll update; but that's unlikely. Current banner SWE is 2.2" and depth is 4." Apparently drifts in the shade melt when they want to!


----------



## carvedog

Road is open.


----------



## duct tape

Did you have any help Jerry, or go it solo?


----------



## carvedog

A couple rigs got in last night. The road still had one pretty deep spot this morning, but I didn't even chain up. I did get stuck for a bit, but not too bad. There was a couple that spent the night on the pass in a Tundra. Lots of tree debris on the road all the way in. Glad I have 12 ply tires.


----------



## Mtroserider

Thank you for the update. We're heading in on the 18th. Good news!


----------



## carvedog

raftus said:


> I spoke to two other shuttle companies today. No one has made it in yet and a large crew got turned around on Thursday. Guesstimates for opening vary from tomorrow May 15th to Friday May 21st with move votes for the later end of that range. If I get back to service before we launch I'll update; but that's unlikely. Current banner SWE is 2.2" and depth is 4." Apparently drifts in the shade melt when they want to!


Not sure who got turned around - I have seen it much worse. But yes there were some drifts in places that were pretty deep. There was an unusually thick surface crust. All slabbed up and about five inches thick. I am putting a pruning saw on an extension for the tools for next year.


----------



## Nickdanger

Does anyone want to hazard a guess at what the level will be on Sunday, 5/23? The NOAA River Flow and Near Term Forecast forecast is for it to go back down to 3.5', but I don't think it forecast the bump over the last few days and I am wary about putting much stock in it. 

And while we're at it, any predictions for when it will peak and at what level?


----------



## lhowemt

Nickdanger said:


> Does anyone want to hazard a guess at what the level will be on Sunday, 5/23? The NOAA River Flow and Near Term Forecast forecast is for it to go back down to 3.5', but I don't think it forecast the bump over the last few days and I am wary about putting much stock in it.
> 
> And while we're at it, any predictions for when it will peak and at what level?


have you seen the snowpack (35%) ? It is bad, and it has likely peaked without significant rain. Have a great trip!


----------



## carvedog

Nickdanger said:


> Does anyone want to hazard a guess at what the level will be on Sunday, 5/23? The NOAA River Flow and Near Term Forecast forecast is for it to go back down to 3.5', but I don't think it forecast the bump over the last few days and I am wary about putting much stock in it.
> 
> And while we're at it, any predictions for when it will peak and at what level?


Pretty sure it peaked about 10 days ago. I don't think it will continue to go up after today. Seems like the 3.5 is not too far off.


----------



## studytime

Just got off yesterday. We ran marsh creek. Wild ride but only two places we had to pull boats over logs. Left them fully loaded.


----------



## mlbeck44

Did anyone drive to the put-in yesterday or today? How is the road? The email I received from the Forest Service stated 4wd was mandatory. Is the road really still that bad off? We launch on Saturday...

Thank you,
Moriya


----------



## Fishboy!

mlbeck44 said:


> Did anyone drive to the put-in yesterday or today? How is the road? The email I received from the Forest Service stated 4wd was mandatory. Is the road really still that bad off? We launch on Saturday...
> 
> Thank you,
> Moriya


In and out yesterday (May 21). Road good.


----------

