# Middle Fork of the Salmon



## Berger (Sep 10, 2004)

My brother and I are planning on kayaking the Middle Fork of the Salmon in the middle of May. We have a permit and are planning on a self-sustained trip in creek boats. I was wondering if anyone out there has ever paddled the Middle Fork self-sustained style in kayaks? Any beta would be great! Thank you!


----------



## raftus (Jul 20, 2005)

It definitely can be done - bring freeze dried food, minimalist camping gear, and lots of dry gear because it may snow on you every night. The real question is, unless you have ambition of doing self support expeditions in remote parts of the world, why? Get a raft or two to go with you. Then you can have cold beer, tequila, steaks, chairs, and somewhere other than inside of your boat to store your poop - yes you have to pack out your poop (I believe it has to be in a hard sided container), and you need a firepan. Just my rafting biased 2¢. However you decide to go, have a great trip, and depending on your launch date I may see you up there.


----------



## deepsouthpaddler (Apr 14, 2004)

Earthen Exposure: self-support kayaking

Good website with lots of info about self support kayaking. Middle fork the middle of may will be cold. Prepare for snow, and a launch on marsh creek. 

Also a great story about a self support middle for trip is a book called something like "An innocent on the middle fork". Story about a guy who solo self supported the middle fork in a foldboat in the 40's or something. If he can do it, it can certainly be done in modern creekboats.

I personally prefer the playboat with raft support, and cold beers in camp, but its a fantastic wilderness run that you will enjoy any way you run it.


----------



## Schizzle (Mar 26, 2004)

I guess this is obvious, but check the weather first and if it's a good forecast you're probably okay to not take a lot of warm gear. I've only run the MF on a freak warm spell in late-April and we had nice temps the entire time. My experience was at low-flows, but not stupid low.

The Marsh Cr. approach is no big deal at med or lower levels in a kayak (probably NBD at higher levels, too) and you get the experience of starting on a small creek and 100 miles later finishing on 50k cfs on the Main. Rafters get more concerned sometimes because there can be riverwide trees before the commercials cut them out. In a kayak though, you have a lot of time to pull over and portage. A raft overloaded with a week's worth of stuff would feel different.

Lastly, if the tribs are running high, definitely take the time since you have creekers to ditch your camping gear, hike up and run the lower sections of some these. Big Cr. is fun to put in just above the bridge about 2 miles up, and the creek that comes in at the Simplot ranch (can't remember its name, I think it was "Loon") was really fun, too. There's a good granite gorge on that one. There was one other, too, but it was a long hike past a bunch of class II for some hair (back where help would take days to get) so we didn't even think about doing it. We did look at it though by taking a stroll sans boats to just see what was up there.

Have fun. The MF would be fun in any style and while going self-support wouldn't be my first choice, it would certainly lower your overhead and simplify logistics. You will miss some great surfing and camp comforts though.


----------



## ag3dw (May 13, 2006)

Sounds like a great trip. Self support is a magical way to see rivers. Free and easy and you don't have to use big camps (you may have required camps on the MF) and have much less impact. Take your dry suit and plenty of warm gear, the weather should be cool at some point on your trip. 

Haven't done the MF self support but have done other trips: Salt, Selway, Jarbidge-Bruneau, so I will add some pointers. Work closely with the FS to make sure you have the required equipment. You may be able to take a fire blanket instead of a pan. Wag Bags instead of hard shell toilet. 

Pack as much dense heavy stuff like stove, fuel, pans and tent in front of your bulkhead/foot pegs as possible to trim the extra weight in back. Your boat will handle differently so try to do a trial run. At a minimum, pack your stow floats and all you gear in your boats to make sure everything fits as a dry run. If you backpack, you should have no problem. Ultralight backpacking web sites will have pointers too.

Hit the meat in Velvet, heavy boats pack a punch!


----------



## cadster (May 1, 2005)

Marsh is swift through out with several blind corners and one distinct rapid that starts with a horizon line. I'd expect at least one place with wood across which was the case last June. I would be surprised if commercials run Marsh Creek, but private rafters do before the road into Dagger opens.

Camas Creek has a class V gorge a half mile from the river.


----------



## raftus (Jul 20, 2005)

Marsh Creek is a likely part of any Mid-May Middle Fork. The Idaho Whitewater yahoo group is a great source of early season information. People usually put up trip reports starting in early May. The river wide logs on Marsh have killed several people including two in either 2005 or 2006 - but as mentioned earlier this is more of a rafter danger than a kayaker danger. Wood can also be a danger anywhere on the middle fork itself and log jams are somewhat common, there was a big one early season at Pistol in '07 - but it mysteriously dissaperaed. The commercails will try to cut out log jams on the Middle Fork, but I don't think they run Marsh creek. They are more likely to fly in instead.


----------



## cemartin (Oct 11, 2003)

Berger said:


> My brother and I are planning on kayaking the Middle Fork of the Salmon in the middle of May. We have a permit and are planning on a self-sustained trip in creek boats. I was wondering if anyone out there has ever paddled the Middle Fork self-sustained style in kayaks? Any beta would be great! Thank you!


How do you have a permit for the Middle Fork when the lottery doesn't even close until February 2? If I'm correct the permit season doesn't even begin util late May. Did you mean to say that you're running it before permit season?


----------



## Berger (Sep 10, 2004)

Thank you all so much for the information, especially safety concerns...always crucial to know. Hopefully I won't have to put a fire pan in my boat! If anyone wants to join our excursion please feel free to let me know. There is only two of us at the moment and with more paddlers and rafters the party will be more rockin' and the safety more secure. Thank you all again.

Josh


----------



## upshitscreek (Oct 21, 2007)

Berger said:


> Hopefully I won't have to put a fire pan in my boat!


 a self supported kayak trip gets some slack on fire pans,ect. you still need them but considerations are made that a raft supported trip doesn't get. give the rangers a call and get the low down from the source.


----------



## dow1200099 (May 23, 2006)

DITO!!!


----------



## Mike Hartley (May 1, 2006)

Berger said:


> Hopefully I won't have to put a fire pan in my boat!


Josh, self-supported trips still have to "comply" with the firepan, groover, shovel, and other regs. The rangers in my experience are pretty easy to work with on this. Your paddle blade can be a shovel, WAG bags work for a groover, and a small baking pan for a firepan.


----------



## mouflon (Jan 24, 2009)

My friend and I ran it self-support in mid May about 10 years ago. At that time, they let us take a space blanket for a fire pan, 1/2 of a break-down paddle was a shovel, and a small (1qt?) plastic container for a groover. It was a great trip and very easy to do if you put a little planning into supplies and boat packing. I love big rafting trips with pig boats full of food, beer, and people, but sometimes it's nice to keep things simple (and quiet!). Have fun. I'm envious!
PS Watch out for ticks. I got several on me that week. Luckily none attached, but 1 was on my TP after I wiped my ass!


----------



## Berger (Sep 10, 2004)

cemartin said:


> How do you have a permit for the Middle Fork when the lottery doesn't even close until February 2? If I'm correct the permit season doesn't even begin util late May. Did you mean to say that you're running it before permit season?



I am not sure? My brother secured a permit and told me we were set to go. What the fuck is it to you Anyway?


----------



## Berger (Sep 10, 2004)

Mike Hartley said:


> Josh, self-supported trips still have to "comply" with the firepan, groover, shovel, and other regs. The rangers in my experience are pretty easy to work with on this. Your paddle blade can be a shovel, WAG bags work for a groover, and a small baking pan for a firepan.


Thanks for the info man! I am sure it will come in handy.


----------



## cemartin (Oct 11, 2003)

Berger said:


> I am not sure? My brother secured a permit and told me we were set to go. What the fuck is it to you Anyway?


 
You don't need to be a asshole about it. I just asked a legitimate question being that I applied for a Middle Fork Permit myself. Go fuck yourself.


----------



## upshitscreek (Oct 21, 2007)

cemartin said:


> You don't need to be a asshole about it. I just asked a legitimate question being that I applied for a Middle Fork Permit myself. Go fuck yourself.


the mfs lottery controlled season runs from 5/28 - 9/3. douchebag here is going before the lottery season and those permits are first come, first serve starting in oct. the year before the season. basically when you can really freeze your butt off with little good access or when the water is really,really low.

cemartin, you should rally a rubber supported trip and throw beer cans and steak dinner scraps at the guy while he huddles under his little tarp tent in the snow eating a dinner of Cup-o-noodles.


----------



## FrankC (Jul 8, 2008)

How do you have a permit already? I thought the permits were issued in Feb.



Berger said:


> My brother and I are planning on kayaking the Middle Fork of the Salmon in the middle of May. We have a permit and are planning on a self-sustained trip in creek boats. I was wondering if anyone out there has ever paddled the Middle Fork self-sustained style in kayaks? Any beta would be great! Thank you!


----------



## FrankC (Jul 8, 2008)

Never mind, I just read the answers that question. This Berger guy seems like a real punk ass. 



FrankC said:


> How do you have a permit already? I thought the permits were issued in Feb.


----------



## Berger (Sep 10, 2004)

cemartin said:


> You don't need to be a asshole about it. I just asked a legitimate question being that I applied for a Middle Fork Permit myself. Go fuck yourself.


I was under the impression you were questioning my intentions of doing the middle fork since the permit lottery, according to you, does not begin until the beginning of February. I guess I misunderstood your intentions. Sorry about my comment, it won't happen again. No hard feelings!


----------



## Berger (Sep 10, 2004)

upshitscreek said:


> the mfs lottery controlled season runs from 5/28 - 9/3. douchebag here is going before the lottery season and those permits are first come, first serve starting in oct. the year before the season. basically when you can really freeze your butt off with little good access or when the water is really,really low.
> 
> cemartin, you should rally a rubber supported trip and throw beer cans and steak dinner scraps at the guy while he huddles under his little tarp tent in the snow eating a dinner of Cup-o-noodles.


Flows in the northwest come earlier than in Colorado and the flow should be just fine in mid may. Thanks for the comment! And sorry to have offended your friend, I misunderstood his intentions.


----------



## cemartin (Oct 11, 2003)

Berger said:


> I was under the impression you were questioning my intentions of doing the middle fork since the permit lottery, according to you, does not begin until the beginning of February. I guess I misunderstood your intentions. Sorry about my comment, it won't happen again. No hard feelings!


No hard feelings at all. Best of luck with your trip. I've often thought of doing another Selway or Salmon trip pre-season myself. Idaho is my favorite place in the entire world, and I've often plotted to move up there. I hope it works out for you. I applied for an early season trip because I think it's going to be a dry year in the northern rockies. It's just a hunch, but I think you might have access to the conventional put-in as well. If you don't feel like self-supporting it, fly into Indian Creek, and you should have a good trip from that elevation down. 

Cheers, 
Curtis


----------



## Berger (Sep 10, 2004)

cemartin said:


> No hard feelings at all. Best of luck with your trip. I've often thought of doing another Selway or Salmon trip pre-season myself. Idaho is my favorite place in the entire world, and I've often plotted to move up there. I hope it works out for you. I applied for an early season trip because I think it's going to be a dry year in the northern rockies. It's just a hunch, but I think you might have access to the conventional put-in as well. If you don't feel like self-supporting it, fly into Indian Creek, and you should have a good trip from that elevation down.
> 
> Cheers,
> Curtis



Yeah, sorry again man. Thanks for the beta about Indian Creek. But I was just up near the Lochsa River back country snowboarding two weeks ago and I've never seen that much snow there in the last 5 years. I went to school in Missoula and frequently ran the Lochsa and skiied in Lolo pass all the time. I think there is going to be some serious hydro there this year man so prepare for some action.

Josh


----------



## cemartin (Oct 11, 2003)

*Snotel Average*



Berger said:


> Yeah, sorry again man. Thanks for the beta about Indian Creek. But I was just up near the Lochsa River back country snowboarding two weeks ago and I've never seen that much snow there in the last 5 years. I went to school in Missoula and frequently ran the Lochsa and skiied in Lolo pass all the time. I think there is going to be some serious hydro there this year man so prepare for some action.
> 
> Josh


Here's the latest NRCS info on Idaho as of 1/24/09:

It looks like the basins in Idaho are all about average. Hope this helps.

http://www.wcc.nrcs.usda.gov/report...=SNOTEL+Snowpack+Update+Report&condensed=true

Hope this helps. When I was looking for work a couple years ago, I got on a summer fire crew in the North Fork Ranger District of the Clearwater Forest. Early on in the season the locals were always up riding down the summit of Hoodu Pass. Tje fire fighting was hard work there, but I love that Missoula area. My girlfriend is actually from Missoula as well. Good luck with the trip. It's one of those once in a lifetime trips you hope you can do many times over.

Curtis


----------



## tboe101 (May 10, 2005)

Rafted the Middle Fork a few years ago at high water and it was the best raft trip other than the Grand that I've ever done. Good luck getting this trip together.


----------



## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

Berger said:


> Yeah, sorry again man. Thanks for the beta about Indian Creek. But I was just up near the Lochsa River back country snowboarding two weeks ago and I've never seen that much snow there in the last 5 years. I went to school in Missoula and frequently ran the Lochsa and skiied in Lolo pass all the time. I think there is going to be some serious hydro there this year man so prepare for some action.
> 
> Josh


yeah, everyone needs to jack down a bit before flaming! You can get off-season permits starting in Oct, 7 a day until it is filled up. 

Thanks for the beta on the Lochsa snowpack, I just started running it last year and am jacked to get back on! Were you in there last year during the winter? Last lochsa season, so I'm told, was epic largely in part to the late spring, very little runoff until mid May. My last day on it was the weekend after 4th of July, the next weekend it was gone. There's another post on here that I linked to the water report, but that is so specific, as you know, just 3 sites of data. 

Just got a bit more snow last night, but more in town than at the bowl, maybe more later this week. There's a lot of winter left to change things.... Mid Dec I was thinking pre-season too, fortunately winter showed up so we put in for a lottery season permit too, crossing fingers.


----------



## upshitscreek (Oct 21, 2007)

Berger said:


> Flows in the northwest come earlier than in Colorado and the flow should be just fine in mid may. Thanks for the comment! And sorry to have offended your friend, I misunderstood his intentions.


no problem. the low water reference is for the past 9/3 permit dates.

toodles.


----------

