# Grand Canyon 2019 - 42 Launch Dates Available Now!



## mania (Oct 21, 2003)

I really have a beef with these getting posted here every single time. some of us are signed up to get the notices and have tried every lottery and followup in the last five years, then some newb sees this post of yours and wins. sorry I guess I am a bitter.


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## waterdude (Apr 20, 2017)

I'm not bitter, but do make my yearly donation to the lottery and wonder if its necessity to repost to a public forum a notice sent to those who support/subscribe to the GC permit system. 

That said....if it weren't for newbs getting these permits then dropping the ball, how would a long-time loser like me ever score in these follow-ups?


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## mania (Oct 21, 2003)

what I really hate is "hey everyone in the world look look there is a rec.gov permit for x at time y go on and start clicking!"

yeah no kidding some of us check every day and are serious about this. the people that really want the permit cancellations know when and how to look for them.


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## BrianK (Feb 3, 2005)

It's nice to see the two dates my group won but didn't confirm go back to the public. It's always sad to drop a potential Grand launch - much less two at once - but that's a problem you have to deal with when your permit party pulls three Grand permits in the main lottery. (I think we may have used up all of our luck in one lottery)

Also, I agree - I always get mad when I see these posted online. If people want to know about follow-up lotteries they should sign up for the emails. Why make it harder to pick up a cancellation?


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## Fumble (May 23, 2013)

This thread as been hijacked by people complaining about providing public information. 

I believe GCPBA goal is to make sure all private dates get used so there isn't an excuse to give more trips to commercials.


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## waterdude (Apr 20, 2017)

No, if it was an issue about public information then these would posted in a more appropriate place like the *Access & Safety* forum. And demand is not the issue when it comes to the economics of rivalrous, excludable public goods.


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## landslide (Dec 20, 2014)

I have no problem with this announcement on Mountain Buzz because if you're already here on the site, then you are probably a boater. Maybe still a newbie, but someone who is committed to this sport/lifestyle.

What I hate to see is when non-boaters are encouraged to sign up for permit lotteries, just because "they're outdoors people" and wilderness rivers are awesome, so why shouldn't everyone in the world put in for a permit? Here's a perfect example from Sierra Magazine: https://www.sierraclub.org/sierra/2014-5-september-october/green-life/how-win-4-most-competitive-park-lotteries-america

Not once do they mention that you actually need to have some river experience and knowledge and skill to do this trip. It's just, "Hey, look everybody! Here's how to win a highly sought after wilderness river permit! Anybody can do it, so come on down and get yours while supplies still last!"


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## Daryl (Apr 16, 2013)

This whole supplemental Lottery is a hoax.

Do not apply, it is just a scheme to get your information so it can be sold.

I have really good anti-info harvesting software on my computer so I might give it a whirl but I do not recommend anyone else even try.


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## panicman (Apr 7, 2005)

I really doubt what few it adds to the lottery by posting it here diminishes your chances by any measurable amount.


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## crispy (May 20, 2004)

*?????*

To be eligible, you must have applied for the main 2019 lottery, and provided your email contact

They already sent the notice to everyone who is eligible so I don’t understand why anyone would post it here.....


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## Wadeinthewater (Mar 22, 2009)

crispy said:


> To be eligible, you must have applied for the main 2019 lottery.....


I believe you can enter the subsequent cancellation lotteries for a given year even if you didn't enter the main lottery if you are willing to pay the $25 fee. The NPS sends me notifications about permit cancellations for lotteries I did not enter.


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## [email protected] (Jun 1, 2010)

crispy said:


> To be eligible, you must have applied for the main 2019 lottery, and provided your email contact
> 
> They already sent the notice to everyone who is eligible so I don’t understand why anyone would post it here.....


I did not apply for 2018 or 2019 but am signed up for e-mails and I get every notice


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## Will Amette (Jan 28, 2017)

Wadeinthewater said:


> I believe you can enter the subsequent cancellation lotteries for a given year even if you didn't enter the main lottery if you are willing to pay the $25 fee. The NPS sends me notifications about permit cancellations for lotteries I did not enter.


True. They are happy to take your application fee any time. I played the follow up and got the expected result. Kind of missing the place because I turned down an invitation and would otherwise be there now


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