# Late September Middle Salmon Trip Canoes



## ski_it (Aug 27, 2015)

No problem, except weather can be quite bad (snow storm).


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## paulster (May 27, 2011)

The weather can also be delightful and the colors are off the charts. If you are comfortable in class 3-4 water, the MFS at very low water should be quite easy (the initial stretch from Boundary Cr to about Pistol Cr) is a bit character-building. Not technically challenging, but lots of shallows and rock dodging. It gets much easier and faster after that. Lightweight (backpack style) travel is key.


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## Dstruxx (Apr 1, 2021)

Not sure how late you're looking - we have done a few trips in the 20s of September and the weather swings drastically but has been pretty good overall. Once had a 14 degree launch night and were then sitting in swimsuits with sun on otter bar.


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## Dirtyrat (Oct 1, 2021)

Damn!!! Sounds like quite variable weather. Luckily we’re a hardy bunch who like to go light on principle. Have all of you canoed the MFS? Any canoe tips? Our timing is gonna be the third week in September. I can deal with teen starts and swimsuit action by the afternoon. Hahahahaha. What kind of mileage can one expect to make?


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## Dangerfield (May 28, 2021)

HUH? 2021 or 2022? FYI, Boundary is closed for the season. Not sure if pilots can fly in canoes unless they are inflatables.


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## Dirtyrat (Oct 1, 2021)

2022.


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## B4otter (Apr 20, 2009)

You will be fine. 

If you need + 1, PM me...


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## Dangerfield (May 28, 2021)

Dirtyrat said:


> 2022.



Crap, it’s October! Doh, my bad. Sorry


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## Dirtyrat (Oct 1, 2021)

No worries. Appreciate the heads up. Didn’t know BC closed on a certain date. May take you up on that B4. You single blade?


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## Dirtyrat (Oct 1, 2021)

Also. Just curious about mileage per day at low water. Thoughts?


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## Dangerfield (May 28, 2021)

Dirtyrat said:


> No worries. Appreciate the heads up. Didn’t know BC closed on a certain date. May take you up on that B4. You single blade?


Boundary closed due to massive fire in area. Really never closed unless gov shut down or covid in past. Snow/access is the main deterrent.


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## kanoer2 (Mar 5, 2011)

Have Tandem canoed the MF 3 times. 2 times went with Canyons (1994 & 2005) who let us being our Dimension, and once on a private permit (2007) OC2. OC1, IK & raft. All where mid August low flows. All trips we started at Boundary, and it was slowish going loaded down until Indian Creek. The 2 first trips we dead-headed in the day before with the guides. Lot's of fond memories! But we're aging out . . . You'll enjoy it, take at least 6 days-5nights. Private trip we carried al our personal gear, made for slow response time.
C


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## Dirtyrat (Oct 1, 2021)

Sounds highly doable from your account. I too am a Dimension paddler. It has been a life changing experience paddling that boat. Even done some creeking in it tandem here in western NC. 
Really want to take it to the MFS


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## nolichuck (Mar 11, 2010)

Dirtyrat said:


> Sounds highly doable from your account. I too am a Dimension paddler. It has been a life changing experience paddling that boat. Even done some creeking in it tandem here in western NC.
> Really want to take it to the MFS


I have paddled a canoe 8 times on the MFS. The lowest level was 1.6' but you will be okay at lower levels. You should consider scouting Sulphur Slide (left), Velvet (left), Pistol Creek (right), Tappan Falls (right). Weber (left), Rubber (left) and Devil's Tooth ( left). At Devil's Tooth there is a nice canoe/kayak slot just right of the center rock. I am from Transylvania County, NC but moved to Salmon, ID 15 years ago. The only drawback is that there is no paddling in the winter. Some folks say that their favorite river is the one they are on right now. I can tell you that after paddling 52 different rivers including the Colorado River through the Grand Canyon my favorite river - hands down - is the MFS. I hope it has the same affect on you and your group!


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## Dirtyrat (Oct 1, 2021)

Love the handle!!! Nolichucky is one of my home rivers. I live on the S.Toe in Yancey county. 
Wow. 8 times is a lot. If your favorite river out of so many is the mfs I’m sure it will captivate me as well. Thanks for the beta. I’m really getting pretty pumped even though it’s still 12 months out. What boat do you paddle? I’ve got a Dimension and an Outrage.


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## kanoer2 (Mar 5, 2011)

I could dig throu the old notes, but sure our trips were below 2'.. The 1994 (honeymoon) & 1995 were the easiest regarding drops. That year Canyons flew passengers down to Thomas Creek, and the FS made us get a permit for the dead head day with the guides. Went back with Canyons for our 10 yr anniversary, this time dead headed to Indian Creek, no permit required. 2007 was the year after Lake Creek blew out, and that was a mess still. Lots of other river changes, Pistol was way different, with loaded boat we decided to portage Tapan Falls. Not as hard as the Rogue- meaning Blossom Bar thou. It took us all day to go the first 8 miles from Boundary Creek, our raft person had a miserable time. 

Aside from that, we are working on our 3rd Dimension. Had a Caption neither of us liked it. When the kiddo was still at home, I paddled a Mad River Flashback-loved that thing, then an Encore. Kiddo has flown the coop, back to the OC2. Fires this year closed our local rivers down. Life goes on!


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## Dirtyrat (Oct 1, 2021)

You sound kind of legendary. I wonder if I’ve watched you in your Dimension on YouTube?!?Im paddling an Outrage as my solo boat, but man, that Dimension makes me feel invincible which I know is dangerous. Sounds like you’ve paddled all over. What’s your home river?
Any particular rapid stand out on the mfs?


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## Dirtyrat (Oct 1, 2021)

Kanoer2. Do your kids paddle? Hoping to take my daughter on the mfs in my Dimension.


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## nolichuck (Mar 11, 2010)

Dirtyrat said:


> Love the handle!!! Nolichucky is one of my home rivers. I live on the S.Toe in Yancey county.
> Wow. 8 times is a lot. If your favorite river out of so many is the mfs I’m sure it will captivate me as well. Thanks for the beta. I’m really getting pretty pumped even though it’s still 12 months out. What boat do you paddle? I’ve got a Dimension and an Outrage.


Yeah the Nolichucky is one of my favorites. My favorite canoe is the Esquif Blast. I also have a Mohawk Viper 12, a Mohawk Probe 14, a Mad River ME with a triple saddle, a Dagger Encore and an Old Town Pathfinder. I paddled the Probe and the ME on the MFS because of their volume. We were strictly self support so no beer and dehydrated food. I have been on the MF 8 other times in a cataraft and I can honestly say that it is easier in a canoe - mainly because you can change directions so quickly and you can take easier lines if you want. Some times the sweep boat guides would give us beer and left-over food and that was always very much appreciated.


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## EricForsman (Mar 14, 2019)

Yes, the commercials will toss you a beer or two. And there’s that beer & ice cream store.


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## kanoer2 (Mar 5, 2011)

He started paddling bow of the Dimension when he was 10yrs, slowly worked his way to the Flashback by age 11 doing class II-II+ stuff. He and his (step)dad did do class III-III+ in the Dimension. In junior high we got him a Cascade C1 which he loved until he hit 6 ft and too uncomfortable. He went with us in 1995, 14 yrs, on the Main Salmon 1st week of July. Original plan he was going to paddle the Flashback, but it was cranking at @ 35K cfs, and I ended up solo (I put the solo on a raft at Chitim but they ran it) & he with his dad. Looking back I think he preferred the OC2. Over the years he paddled a lot of long term trips with us, like every summer when he lived at home. He now lives overseas-darn-no white water. But trip home in 2018 he wanted to go boating with his wife and us. Ended up on the Rogue. 

I hope you can get your daughter hooked. I miss those years.


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## kanoer2 (Mar 5, 2011)

Yep, lots of fun trips recorded for prosperity on youtube. 
Local rivers are: Trinity, Klamath, Cal Smith.
Owyhee is the one river I really want to get back to. But my sweety was diagnosed with Parkinson's, so nothing over class II anymore.









Tapan Falls, I think this blew out a month afterwards so very different.


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## Dirtyrat (Oct 1, 2021)

Wow. I really just want to know all the cool trips you’ve been on. Do tell!!!
35k cfs sounds pretty damn high! My daughter’s 21 and soon to graduate college. She’s amazing as a bow woman. Killer water reading capabilities. We’ve tackled some lll-lV stuff in the OC2 which I love as well. 
Hahahahaha. Snagging beer from commercial trips sounds like a good river tax!!


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## Dirtyrat (Oct 1, 2021)

So sorry about your sweetheart. Glad you’re still enjoying a good paddle. 
Is Tappan so very different now? Love the picture. Thank you


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## kanoer2 (Mar 5, 2011)

Unknown about Tappan, someone else will have to chime in.
Enjoy boating with your daughter as long as you can, my kiddo turned 40 this year. 

Ok you asked for it!!! This is just the vacation trips, otherwise lots of day trips to local rivers. My boss and co-workers thought I was nuts. Life slowed way down starting 2017, but still having fun. Focus has shifted, a lot more backpacking now. Now you get to share your rivers and trips over the years. Did your daughter get to grow up paddling?

1994 MF Salmon - honeymoon (commercial)
1995 Main Salmon (commercial)
1996 McKinze & Umpqua R base camp & day trips
1997 Smith, Montana
1998 McKenzie, Oregon - base camp & day trips
1999 Klamath - week base camp & day trips
2000 Payette R - base camp & day trips -. Had permit for Main, but fire closed river down
2001 Main Salmon - raft supported
2002 Main Salmon - raft supported
2003 Oaxaca Mexico no boating vaca
2004 Grand Canyon - raft supported
2005 Mf Salmon (commercial)
2006 Smith, Montana (canoes only) & Rogue R - permitted with raft support
2007 Mf Salmon - raft supported
2008 both sections of John Day
2009 Lower Salmon - raft supported
2010 Main Salmon -raft supported, Deschutes- raft supported, & Grande Ronde
2011 Owyhee, Oregon
2012 Japan for wedding
2013 Lower Salmon - raft supported
2014 Main Salmon - raft supported
2015 commercial dory Grand Canyon
2016 Klamath & Rogue non-permited
2019 Green River - raft supported, Grand Canyon private no canoe, Boundary Waters, Minn


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## Dirtyrat (Oct 1, 2021)

Holy crap!!!! That’s some serious river time. Are a lot of those rivers bigger volume, or more technical or both? I hope to have a river resume that is that long someday. Thanks for sharing. I recently came across a video of some young Canadian canoe guides self supporting the first tandem trip through the Grand Canyon.

I guess I’m twenty years behind you. Hahahahaha. Unfortunately it’s only been the last few years I switched to paddling. I really wish she had grown up that way. But she’s darn good for the little time she’s spent in a canoe.

I fricking love Oaxaca. There are some amazing rivers in Mexico


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## paulster (May 27, 2011)

Regarding mileage: I've done a handful of September trips with some combination of kayaks, IK's, and packrafts (no rafts). I've taken 7 or 8 days, meaning going slow, with time to fish, hike, run, etc. You can go much faster if you are focused on moving, don't spend as much time on the shore, or are willing to push hard. It gets easier to make miles as you get lower - I always plan on the first 2 days being pretty short mileage-wise and then making up for it down lower.


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## nolichuck (Mar 11, 2010)

kanoer2 said:


> Yep, lots of fun trips recorded for prosperity on youtube.
> Local rivers are: Trinity, Klamath, Cal Smith.
> Owyhee is the one river I really want to get back to. But my sweety was diagnosed with Parkinson's, so nothing over class II anymore.
> View attachment 70415
> ...


Tappan Falls is still the same. It is loud and visually impressive from below but a very straightforward run. The blowout occurred about a half mile below Tappan Falls at Cove Creek. We hit it a couple days after the blowout and it was rather gnarly what with a mixture of new boulders and wood. We looked at it for a good 30 minutes before deciding on the best canoe line.


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## kanoer2 (Mar 5, 2011)

So a bit of back story: worked at a DDS office for 35 yrs, every January he would ask for vacation time (we closed office down), everyone looked at me and said "Well?". Wait until February to see if I won any permits. Only time he put his foot down and said *no* was the 2004 GC trip. My sweetie paddled that with another amazing paddler. 

West coast rivers I don't think of as big volume other then maybe the Klamath. Smith is flashy during the winter, did at @ 8K and that was serious stuff. In spring we did an over nighter on the Eel, and highest was 11K with a nasty stop you dead up-river wind. My understanding is we're more pool-drop then your neck of the woods. More technical? Someone else needs to address that.

Of all the rivers I've paddled, the permitted section of the Rogue is the one that we were at our maximum comfort zone. I had no desire to canoe it again. Blossom Bar was scary for me. Sweetie said for him, lining the Fish Ladder was the worst. Flow was 2900 at what ever gauge is used by Grants Pass. 

Happy Paddling!
C


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## Dirtyrat (Oct 1, 2021)

Yeah. I wonder if your sweetheart was one of the paddlers I’ve seen in the GC paddling Dimensions through that wild stuff. 

The Rogue sounds fun! Maybe I’ll make it out there someday. Right now I’m obsessed with Yukon and NWT rivers. Gotta dream right? Well I’m in awe of all your adventures. 
We’re pretty pool drop out here. A lot of class lll-lV creeks. I think you’d dig it. 
Gaelan


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## Dstruxx (Apr 1, 2021)

As far as mileage, we have done many IK trips at 1.6+ and we always do 6 nights. We flex distance around hot springs but most days are not uncomfortable. We are waaay faster than raft groups - I assume canoes would be on par or just slightly slower?


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## kanoer2 (Mar 5, 2011)

Couldn't resist This is Satin's Cesspool III+, American River about 1998














, SF


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## ski_it (Aug 27, 2015)

Nice pic- I can only take so much of the river RV talk/pics


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## raferguson1 (Feb 13, 2007)

We ran the middle in Canoes at 1.7 ft. I would not do it again at that level. There were a lot of rocks. Three out of four boats needed repair at the end of the trip; I have never had that kind of carnage with equipment, before or since. This was a very experienced group of canoeists. Your mileage may vary.


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## ski_it (Aug 27, 2015)

Raf- what were the layups?


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## nolichuck (Mar 11, 2010)

raferguson1 said:


> We ran the middle in Canoes at 1.7 ft. I would not do it again at that level. There were a lot of rocks. Three out of four boats needed repair at the end of the trip; I have never had that kind of carnage with equipment, before or since. This was a very experienced group of canoeists. Your mileage may vary.


It is true that at lower levels the first 25 miles are chocked with rocks and the river becomes channelized. If you are lucky or know the river well you take the best channel. After many trips my friends and I have never damaged our canoes other than losing a little paint and picking up a few dings. I am not saying that it is impossible to damage a canoe on the MFS just that I find it very unusual. Royalex is pretty tough stuff. Please do not take this the wrong way. I just want open boaters who may be considering a MF trip to understand that they can do a low water trip without bad consequences. Go light!


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## cadster (May 1, 2005)

Dirtyrat said:


> Hey all
> Just looking for some opinions about canoeing the MFS in later September. We’re pretty competent southeast ww canoeists both tandem and solo. Comfortable in class 3-4 technical water. Thanks in advance 😁


Always went with raft support on the MFS. Highly recommend doing a self-support canoe trip on the Selway in August which is after permit season. OC1'ed, more difficult to tandem.


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