# Is this a swim?



## Phin Diesel (Oct 14, 2003)

Does pinning on a log and having to pull your skirt to exit the river count as a swim? Do I owe a booty beer for that? My thought are it wasn't that bad of a pin and I could have hung out there till the log washed downstream but to expedite the trip I pulled out and walked to shore. Any thoughts?


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## ZGjethro (Apr 10, 2008)

Not in my book. I'd call it an escape. And bootie beers are for class 3 newbies


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## [email protected] (Apr 26, 2006)

If you swam then it counts as a swim, and booty beers are for everyone.


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## Phil U. (Feb 7, 2009)

"Walked to shore"? That's called "de-boating". I had one of those this year... 
P.


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## dvanhouten (Dec 29, 2003)

Boof512 is an expert on what classifies as a swim. He should add something to this thread. Hell yes, if you got wet, it is a swim. I wouldn't drink from my booty, I wouldn't expect anyone else to drink from their's.


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## ZGjethro (Apr 10, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> If you swam then it counts as a swim, and booty beers are for everyone.


Aye, there's the rub. Why does the swimmer get the beer. The people who wrangle the swimmers gear should get the beers. Nasty beer is better than no beer at all, so where's the disincentive?


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## Phin Diesel (Oct 14, 2003)

This was kind of a test to see if my new picture would post next to my name, didn't work. ?


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## TheKid (Aug 25, 2004)

In the ice game it counts. Now if someone else on the river that day trumped you pin, swim, self rescue; say a full on swim, they buy the round of ice cream. IMHO booty beers are the dumbest tradition in any sport i have ever encountered. I dont think anyone should ever have to drink from a booty. So in my opinion, all you may possibly owe is some ice cream (ice cream can be substituted with another tasty food substance as long as the people you are paddling agree to it). 

P.S to those who play and created the ice cream game... Thank You... it is a much better system.


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## gnarseeker (Aug 14, 2006)

TheKid said:


> booty beers are the dumbest tradition in any sport i have ever encountered.


booty beers and/or booty shots are a quensisential part of kayaking. I personally think it is one of the best traditions of any sport I have encountered.....The river gods demand their bootet PERIOD! Any swim, pin raft or kayak including falling out of your boat putting in or taking out is a swim. 

I once did a booty shot for swimming out of a tube. 

Take your bootet like a man. enough said!


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## TrevarB (Apr 10, 2007)

Why were you against the log?.......Drink.


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## Demosthenes (Dec 19, 2008)

Booty Beers are a tradition that protects us by showing our respect to the river gods. Not drinking booty beers gives you serious bad luck karma. To demonstrate this I will share a story. 

When I just started to boat I was paddling at Smelter and practicing combat rolls. I swam and self rescued but didn't take a booty bear. Later, while driving back to my cabin I noticed blue lights in my rear view mirror. This was concerning because I had been enjoying the customary post boating bong hits. I also may have been driving with my knees. I did the responsible thing and pulled over, carefully placing my drytop over "gilgamesh the avenger". The officer, upon approaching the car asked for license and registration etc. While walking back to his cruiser he noticed the AW sticker I had just placed there. Coming back to the car he said because I was a boater he would let me off with a warning for a broken tail light. He also said if I happened to place gilgamesh on the curb and left, we'd be straight. While I lucked out to not wind up in jail, I blame the traffic stop entirely on not drinking the booty beer. The hot end of gilgamesh also happened to burn a hole in my brand new drytop which sucked.


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## caspermike (Mar 9, 2007)

as another story.... drink your damn beer choad. the gods will have their rath unless you do it asap. perferablly in front of your co workers and boss's.

my sotry from this year.
swam in the hoback on friday thanks to a canoe. didn't drink up that night(same thoughts as yours) next day had the kingpin icon stolen out of the back of my truck thank good they left the beer and the jefe. to say the least proudly drank some good ole free beer out of the best damn stanky 4 year old dung'g up teva booties while holding in a big ol G.B. hit. the gods have been pleased since.

drink your beers always! ice cream is the rule for rolls only. and if you swim of coarse you owe ice cream anyways.

so unless you intentionally pinned against the log and wanted to do that; stfu, drink your damn beeer and fing smile. couldn't have been as bad as mine. its what you get. and the gods have already started demanding respect(hence the pin!)

its up to you respect them or possibly face a beat down of magnitudal portportions!

sorry still little drunk from last night


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## Warren (Dec 28, 2003)

*Swims a swim*

I'll second TrevorB. You put yourself in a situation to swim then it's a swim. Pin and swim. Pencil, implode and swim. Big Hole and swim. Same thing when you are the one supposed to be controlling your craft.


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## kayakfreakus (Mar 3, 2006)

Demosthenes said:


> Later, while driving back to my cabin I noticed blue lights in my rear view mirror. This was concerning because I had been enjoying the customary post boating bong hits. I also may have been driving with my knees. I did the responsible thing and pulled over, carefully placing my drytop over "gilgamesh the avenger". The officer, upon approaching the car asked for license and registration etc. While walking back to his cruiser he noticed the AW sticker I had just placed there. Coming back to the car he said because I was a boater he would let me off with a warning for a broken tail light. He also said if I happened to place gilgamesh on the curb and left, we'd be straight. While I lucked out to not wind up in jail, I blame the traffic stop entirely on not drinking the booty beer. The hot end of gilgamesh also happened to burn a hole in my brand new drytop which sucked.


That is some funny shit.....love the name - gilgamesh the avenger

And yes you need to appease the river and drink your bootie beverage


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## rivermanryan (Oct 30, 2003)

Booty beers in whitewater paddling are as traditional as shooting the boot in rugby. I couldn't ever imagine that rugby would switch to an ice cream system.

If you don't drink alcohol, then you should start...I mean if you don't, you still should have a booty drink of some kind. Believe it or not, but we enforce the booty rule with the kids on our trips, we just let them do it with a Coke or something. Forget the ice cream thing, it doesn't count.


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## Canada (Oct 24, 2006)

*Thanks*

Intentionally placing your boat against the log in an effort to displace it and free this potential hazard is just proper consideration of the rest of your party. 
They owe you a beer for showing them this courtesy.

On a lighter note, I don't remember bootie beers before about a decade ago. Maybe I was just swimming to much and it is all a blurr?


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## routter (Mar 10, 2004)

Geez- I can't believe we are constantly revisiting this. You were forced to exit your boat by something other than your own volition? You swam AND YOU DRINK.


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## Kendo (Jul 26, 2006)

I liked the gilgamesh story - LMAO 

hey just think how lucky you are to be alive to drink a cold one out of your bootie, it could be worse like- someone elses bootie, or a case of beer for each person you were with who helped in retrieveing your stuff..


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## latenightjoneser (Feb 6, 2004)

Any [email protected] who doesn't drink when he wet-exits/swims/otherwise becomes separated from his boat needs to sack up and drink their booty beer. Anytime you come out of your boat counts. 

Give me a break with the ice cream. Sounds like my little sister's brownie troop.


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## carvedog (May 11, 2005)

Just so you know the River Gods could give a rats ass about your river trash asses falling out of your boat and floating down the river. 

When you swim and someone has to get your shit you buy them a 12 pak, case or a bottle of Jack or something. This bootie beer shit is dumb, dangerous and dumb again. 

I do know that if someone washes your river cup you almost certainly risk a flip and there is nothing you can do about it. 

Bwaaaahahha.

Edit to add I liked the Gilgamesh story. Sorry you lost the destoyer and ruined your top.


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## sarahkonamojo (May 20, 2004)

*Back in the day*

For swims, you bought the beer. If the swim was particularly stupid, then you bought dinner.

The river gods and I have a special understanding. The river gods don't like booties anymore then we do. Besides I wear shoes and they don't hold liquid.

SKM


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## leesonka (May 29, 2008)

Anybody see the guy swim at this year's Teva eight ball. He was called out and had to do a bootie beer in front of the crowd.


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## blutzski (Mar 31, 2004)

sarahkonamojo said:


> For swims, you bought the beer. If the swim was particularly stupid, then you bought dinner.
> 
> The river gods and I have a special understanding. The river gods don't like booties anymore then we do. Besides I wear shoes and they don't hold liquid.
> 
> SKM


You don't get to drink out of your own shoe. You drink out of the nasty bootie of the person who gathered your yard sale.

If someone in my crew had a preference for ice cream over beer , however, I'd have no problem with DQ whipping up a nice peanut buster parfait inside my bootie for him/her to slurp down. Personally, I'd go for some alchohol to kill the fungus. I imagine that sugar would increase the bacteria count tenfold before you even got to the cherry.


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## caspermike (Mar 9, 2007)

you people don't realize the obvious.drinking a booty beer is not something you want to do, its something you must do. if you don't like drinking your booty beer than quit swimming. thats one reason behind the thought. think about it. if you don't like drinking out of a booty uyour are going to nail your lines there for you aren't drinking out of a booty.


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## blutzski (Mar 31, 2004)

caspermike said:


> you people don't realize the obvious.drinking a booty beer is not thing you want to do, s something you must do. if you don't like drinking your booty beer than quit swimming. thats one reason behind the thought. think about it. if you don't like drinking out of a booty uyour are going to nail your lines there for you aren't drinking out of a booty beer.


werd.


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## rivermanryan (Oct 30, 2003)

caspermike said:


> you people don't realize the obvious.drinking a booty beer is not something you want to do, its something you must do. if you don't like drinking your booty beer than quit swimming. thats one reason behind the thought. think about it. if you don't like drinking out of a booty uyour are going to nail your lines there for you aren't drinking out of a booty.


True


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## Afogel (Feb 16, 2008)

*Again*

I am afraid the "we don't drink botty beers because its nasty and DANgerous" group is starting to get some traction, sort of like the religious right in the late 80's. This aint good. We need to put a stop to it before the entire fabric of the paddling tradition begins to fall apart. DRINK THE BOOTY. Its not a choice. its the law, son.


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## caspermike (Mar 9, 2007)

AMEN


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## craporadon (Feb 27, 2006)

*the world is good*

I gotta disagree with C Mike. Drinking a Bootie Beer is definitely something you DO want to do. When you polish off that last drop and spike the bootie like Ocho Cinco in the end zone, a strange feeling of peace and calm transcends you, the group of friends surrounding you hooting and cheering their voices and sounds trail off as you become at peace in the River God Debt Erasure World for a moment of silence. You feel as if the world is alright again, all those butterflies in your stomach have flown and a peaceful halo transcends the parking lot. Then sound returns and you are surrounded by your friends cheering for you and you high five your mate, wipe the foam off your chin and the world is good.


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## carvedog (May 11, 2005)

Afogel said:


> I am afraid the "we don't drink botty beers because its nasty and DANgerous" group is starting to get some traction, sort of like the religious right in the late 80's. This aint good. We need to put a stop to it before the entire fabric of the paddling tradition begins to fall apart. DRINK THE BOOTY. Its not a choice. its the law, son.



Why don't you bootie beer drinkers just go lick a fresh dog turd instead? 

Or suck a fat babies ass? 

You have no fucking imagination whatsoever and this shit has only been going around for a few years really. 

When I learned to kayak if you swam you bought beer for the crew not drink out of someones fungus fest of a bootie. If you lost your shit you bought the guy who recovered it a bottle ( of their choice to some extent) and now you dirtbag kayakers come along and decide your too cheap to actually buy someone who saved your shit something good so you act like fucking clowns at a circus. 

"hey guys, I am not going to buy you a bottle, but I will drink a cheap warm beer out of my/your bootie." (If your going for clown points why don't balance a ball on your nose while you drink your nastiness? Or do it upside down or some shit at least a little creative.)

"Is that cool cuz I really don't want to have to go to the liquor store and throw down for a bottle of Jack or Crown cuz I'm a cheap dirtbag bastard."


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## kayakfreakus (Mar 3, 2006)

carvedog said:


> When I learned to kayak if you swam you bought beer for the crew not drink out of someones fungus fest of a bootie. If you lost your shit you bought the guy who recovered it a bottle ( of their choice to some extent)"


Wow - if I got a bottle for every time I gathered gear on river I would be at Betty Ford. Now that seems harsh for a newbie and expensive swims including beer for all and bottles for gear. Spose it has the same motivation of the booty beer which is keep your ass in boat.

Unless you mean like lost gear gone from your group on the river and returned by someone else that is a good Samaritan that definitely requires you to pony up....


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## kayakfreakus (Mar 3, 2006)

And I also know many well educated, respectable, working professionals who contribute to the community that gladly pay the penance of a booty and are not "dirtbags"


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## NoCo (Jul 21, 2009)

bootie beer tradition is only a few years old...was that a swim YES it was also an escape from the spot you put yourself in... now for the bootie beer, no way... feet are disgusting...i wouldn't put my mouth on my feet or yours even if your a hottie...it sounds like a good way of getting sick...so in my mind all you owe is a 12 pack to your friends and to continued harrasment you will recieve untill they swim...dont drink the bootie beer i might puke just seeing it


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## brendodendo (Jul 18, 2004)

I'm a rafter... and I still think that you need to DRINK THE BOOTY BEER> I know that I have one coming. Calender, you and I owe. 

DRINK UP and BE SOMEBODY


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## foreverhard (Apr 14, 2009)

*Superstition ain't the way*

The way I look at it is I'm not religious/superstitious. I don't believe in god(s). I do not believe the river is intelligent or spiteful; it can not read my posts or emails. 

When I swim, it's because I failed, not because the river is pissy about some stupid floater. Nobody likes a swimmer. Being one is highly embarrassing, a pain in the ass for everyone around, and likely leads to injury. These reasons are much more powerful deterrents for me.

Fuck drinking out of a bootie that isn't even allowed in the house.


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## st2eelpot (Apr 15, 2008)

Working in South America we had a variation of the system. A swim = a bootie beer. A flip = buying the booze for all guides the entire night.

Keep in mind, the pay wasn't bad (for South America) and the beer was cheap.

Glug glug glug glug. glug.


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## BoilermakerU (Mar 13, 2009)

I'm glad this is a KAYAKER's tradition and that I'm a rafter...


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## atom (Jan 14, 2004)

*not sure that it is only a few years old*

Not sure that it is only a few years old. I've been drinking out of bootie since 1994 and I know alot of other folks have also. pay your dues, you swim, drink that bootie beer! 3 already for me this year. At this rate, I might start drinking the bootie beer before putting on the river....Beers, Atom....


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## adgeiser (May 26, 2009)

2 things. 
1. my definition of a swim, if more than your feet, ankles and legs touched water guess what you swam.

2. Obviously your "mishap" was the worst of your group otherwise you would not be bellyaching here about.....so I side with the DRINK UP!!!


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## friscofreeskier (May 15, 2006)

*bootie beer*

Here is me drinking a bootie beer this weekend at the NF crystal. DRINK OR SWIM!!


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## SummitAP (Jun 23, 2007)

My group's method: if you had to have your yardsale picked up by others, then you buy them beer (good beer). It seems more productive than pouring a PBR into a stinky bootie as penance. Isn't the swim penance for pulling the skirt?


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## Demosthenes (Dec 19, 2008)

Drinking a Booty Beer = Notorious BIG
Not Drinking a Booty Beer = Lil Bow Wow

*DRINK THE FUCKING BEER AND STOP BEING PUSSIES YOU AMATEURS. *


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## caspermike (Mar 9, 2007)

afuckingmen


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## yourrealdad (May 25, 2004)

Do Evan and Kyle need to make a new edition of the guidebook that has beer drinking rules in it?

A swim = bootie beer
Crew members who pick up yard sale=beer later at bar
Self rescue all your gear=buy yourself beer at bar for being a stud
Falling out while guiding a raft=12 pack for everyone (one 12 pack total)
Flipping a raft=you falling out=12 pack for everyone

Do I follow this all the time, f no, drinking out of a bootie is nasty. I would rather do Caspermike's mom. If it is enforced I sack up though and drink the shiat.
Foreverhard: If you don't believe in river gods call out a few of your local rivers and talk shit to them on this forum, then let me know how life goes.

P.S. I think I got Giardia for the second time this year for drinking a bootie beer.


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## Kendi (May 15, 2009)

So glad I'm a rafter.

In so far as I know, it goes like this:

First commercial trip = garbage can full of bootie water over the head (well used wash water after the trip)

Guide falls out = Beer bought for whoever had to pull his/her butt back in the boat if the guide didn't do it himself

Guide looses paddle = case of beer to the rescuer of said paddle


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## foreverhard (Apr 14, 2009)

*Very superstitious writings on the wall*



yourrealdad said:


> Foreverhard: If you don't believe in river gods call out a few of your local rivers and talk shit to them on this forum, then let me know how life goes.


Life goes on, man; the river does not care about me.


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## caspermike (Mar 9, 2007)

Pretty bold statement? you think you are jeezus or something?

doesn't sound like you have much respect for the river in general?

as you say you finditclimbitand desend it you don't sound like a noble paddler


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## carvedog (May 11, 2005)

caspermike said:


> Pretty bold statement? you think you are jeezus or something?
> 
> doesn't sound like you have much respect for the river in general?
> 
> as you say you finditclimbitand desend it you don't sound like a noble paddler



No casper he's got it right. It would be the high of self-centeredness to think that the river gives two shits whether you drink a beer after you fall out of your kayak or not. 

Don't know how you got lack of respect out of his statements - I didn't.
Oh BTW I do have the utmost respect for the river. I think it is a disservice to rivers everywhere to think that something that borders on fratboy behavior could cause the river to change it's ways and revolve around you to make you swim/lose gear/not get laid or whatever else you can attribute to a vengeful river.
Must be an old testament river you are talking about.


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## caspermike (Mar 9, 2007)

my soul doest havith a deeper connection than thou! i feelith onith withith the onith we callith the River or Matura Natura!

if you been through half of what the beleivers have than you wouldn't deny her. you raft i understand where you come from you need beer on a boat to have a good time.


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## carvedog (May 11, 2005)

caspermike said:


> my soul doest havith a deeper connection than thou! i feelith onith withith the onith we callith the River or Matura Natura!
> 
> if you been through half of what the beleivers have than you wouldn't deny her. you raft i understand where you come from you need beer on a boat to have a good time.


casper - you don't know dick about my connection. you understand nothing. 

to think that whatever God you think you serve wants you to drink from a bootie...........


Ohh never mind. You must like worshiping the booty.


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## mania (Oct 21, 2003)

people who won't drink their boot when they swim (and this includes rafters who are guiding/rowing) are just not team players and you ought to think twice about boating with them. they can't even man up for a drink how are they gonna man up for a rapid or a rescue. they'll probably shirk their camp responsibilities too. when it comes to throw down for gas these guys will be the ones to owe you but never pay you since they spent it all on fucking ice cream.


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## caspermike (Mar 9, 2007)

people who don't drnk the booty are just pussies! what the hell is there to worry about? alcohol kills bacteria!

lets see the pic!


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## mlmercer (Aug 1, 2008)

*pink boots*

Look, if you take a swim you are endangering yourself and those who may have to rescue you. You need to manup or girlup and take your penalty for said endangerment. This will appease those you endangered and discourage you from repeating your offense in the future.

If you're too much of a wuss to drink a beer after a paddle, then have a nice diet coke or nehi grape and at least give the gesture. 

If you're still a wuss and won't drink from the booty...then your paddling buddies must find a suitably embarassing substitute. I would head down to the nearest megalomart and pick up some nice pink boots. Preferably something like Hello Kitty or Dora the Explorer would be suitable. I'd clean 'em up nice and keep them hermetically sealed until your inevitable washout. I'd even consider some latex gloves for you to wear so that you don't get any germs on or near your wussiness.


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## Demosthenes (Dec 19, 2008)

Not drinking booty beers represents an irresponsible and sick lack of judgement. It also demonstrates complete disrespect towards fellow paddlers. 

Despite common assumption, there are actually 8 deadly sins. 
Lust
Gluttony
Greed 
Sloth
Wrath
Envy
Pride
Failure to drink Booty Beers

If somebody doesn't drink their booty beer I refuse to paddle with them. Grand Canyon permit or otherwise.

By the way, whats with the "Equestrian Singles" adds on this site?


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