# NRS movie - A River Out of Time - discussion



## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

Has everyone seen this yet? Dropped last week.








> “We pray for the rains to come, for the snow to fall, for moisture in the earth. Not just for the Hopi, but for everybody. For every living thing that’s out there.” – Howard Dennis, Hopi Elder
> 
> The Green and Colorado river systems form the backbone of the American West. Once spanning a 1,450-mile journey from the Rocky Mountains to the Gulf of California, today, none of the sediment-rich water reaches the Pacific Ocean. Instead, its water lies stymied in reservoirs and siphoned off to feed and nurture 40 million people from Salt Lake to Los Angeles. One hundred and fifty years after John Wesley Powell’s historic descent of the Green and Colorado rivers, an unlikely crew of scientists, artists, educators, and river lovers repeated his journey on a trip that was simultaneously a celebration of modern river life and a critical look at how we interpret the Colorado River’s history and use its waters. As the demand we place on the water of the Colorado continues to exceed its supply, we are forced to face uncomfortable truths about decisions made in our past. And we are reminded that the way we think about water—and all those dependent upon it—needs to shift if we want things to change for our future.
> 
> “Water is a life force for all of us. It has a spiritual and physical being to it that deserves respect. It’s not something that you take for granted.” – Lyle Balenquah, Hopi archaeologist


Thought it might provoke a worthwhile winter discussion....can we keep it from going off the rails?


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

Initial impressions: I liked it but didn't love it. I think it tried to be too many things. A buddy river video, an expedition video, a river documentary, a science video, a tribal documentary...but it was none of those things on their own and it didn't weave them very well together.
I liked the individual footage. The interviews were generally good, but it had jarring transitions between interview footage and river footage.

I really really really enjoyed the Howard Dennis interview. I think a movie could be shot with all tribal storytellers telling their own stories all the way down the river and it would be incredible.

Yet the cameos with the senior white river guides was 'meh'. So..there are lots of senior white river guides and we've heard most of their stories..which are interesting but detracted from this movie

I didn't understand the interview with the artist. He talked about it like an unfinished "project" but we never saw any finished art.


It was interesting that J.W.Powell was vilified a couple times in the movie. I don't think he was a flawless individual for sure, but I also feel he was vilified for things that he actually tried to do right. He tried to warn the growing American government that there wasn't enough water in the west, yet he also headed up the fledgling USGS and helped draw the map that people used to move west. He was painted in the movie as a foe to the natives, yet he founded the bureau of ethnology and tried to help them tell their story.

There are FAR worse villains who weren't mentioned...like General George Crook, General Nelson Miles, or Kit Carson who actively pursued the Government's genocidal policies or later Floyd Dominy who was the architect of the free-flowing river's destruction.



I was confused by the planting of beans scene. What?
And the footage on the two swimmers did little for me. For a river documentary, it just distracted from the main storyline.


Is this a good movie for an uninformed viewer?
Have I read too much, did I expect too much?

I think I'm going to re-watch it. There's a lot to unpack and discuss.


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## Wallrat (Jan 19, 2021)

MT4Runner said:


> Thought it might provoke a worthwhile winter discussion....can we keep it from going off the rails?


Hahahaha! Not bloody likely.


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## Montet202 (Aug 22, 2020)

A good friend grew up on the Navajo res. I laughed at that bean planting scene just imagining what he would think about it. I know they have good intentions, but I imagine Natives are over hollow gestures from us.


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## yardsells (Jul 14, 2014)

Of course they didn't credit my buddy who delivered their replacement motor, showed/helped them replace it and hauled out their dead one...

Meh.


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## Electric-Mayhem (Jan 19, 2004)

I'll probably try again.... but I had to stop two minutes into it with the gratuitous slow motion raft rigging scene. It felt like one of those films that was gonna make everything seem more dramatic and challenging when the reality of that trip was that it was pretty much just like any other river trip most of us have been on. 

Obviously I could be wrong and I probably need to tone down my cynicism a little and give it another chance. Sounds like there are some really interesting bits in it that are worth watching, but not sure I need to hear much of a bunch of river guides waxing poetic about their connection to the river and the history.

I'll likely skim through it and watch the interesting stuff at some point. I mentioned my thoughts to a friend... and his reaction was "Documentaries aren't really meant for the people who participate" and I think that is a very pertinent comment to this film. I'm sure the average person who has never been to the area or run a river will likely find this interesting... for those of us who have and know some of the history... its pretty easy to poke holes in stuff.


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## hooligan shmulligan (Jan 31, 2020)

I'm in the background in a few scenes. In hindsight wished I would of done more then just Ladore. But taking months off and being a boatmen for a more liberal crowd kind of scared me. Though the people that were on the Gates section were awesome. Glad they used some stuff from Noel, guy is a great story teller. Glad I got to be part of it and Jess inviting me.


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## Therealjohnjohnmiller (May 5, 2021)

I enjoyed it. Saw some of those folks floating the dolores last summer they were super chill and seem to be doing alot for river conservation even if the film didnt hit everyones fancy. I just like watching rafting stuff even if its slow motion rigging scenes haha


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## nervouswater (Jun 3, 2008)

I didn’t love it, but I was appreciative of being able to burn two hours watching rafting footage during a particularly cold spell in CO. It wandered too much for me and I don’t particularly understand the whole art theme, nor did it do much to raise any awareness for the watershed that wasn’t already widely known. The beans being planted was super corny too. I’m jealous of being able to spend 50+ days on the water though.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

yardsells said:


> Of course they didn't credit my buddy who delivered their replacement motor, showed/helped them replace it and hauled out their dead one...


That sucks.

But I actually looked closely to see if it was you. 



Electric-Mayhem said:


> not sure I need to hear much of a bunch of river guides waxing poetic about their connection to the river and the history.


True that. Yet they had an opportunity to tell a story from a new perspective...but didn't.




Electric-Mayhem said:


> "Documentaries aren't really meant for the people who participate" and I think that is a very pertinent comment to this film.


Interesting and generally true....but following my viewing last night, YouTube popped up the video "Martin's Boat" which I've already seen 6 times and I already have a dory and understand the dory magic... yet I watched it again and enjoyed it. I'll probably go back and rewatch Doryland







hooligan shmulligan said:


> I'm in the background in a few scenes. In hindsight wished I would of done more then just Ladore. But taking months off and being a boatmen for a more liberal crowd kind of scared me. Though the people that were on the Gates section were awesome. Glad they used some stuff from Noel, guy is a great story teller. Glad I got to be part of it and Jess inviting me.


Eh, depends on how people handle their politics on the river. Most river runners tend toward liberal, I also have conservative friends and a few who share my angry libertarian proclivities. If we can have an informative and respectful conversation, I fully welcome it. If people want to browbeat others about their opinions, they're probably highly opinionated about other things and don't make good tripmates in general.

The drone footage of Lodore/Echo Park was absolutely stunning.


What was the story of the trip while it was ongoing? Was the video a story they set out to tell from the beginning, or the story that evolved during the trip, or was there a different tone within the actual trip?


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

nervouswater said:


> The beans being planted was super corny too. I’m jealous of being able to spend 50+ days on the water though.


Beany, not corny!! ba-dum-tsh!


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## yesimapirate (Oct 18, 2010)

Get ready for my armchair QB comment - don't run Cataract without an oar saver. I use oar savers on every trip. Call me any name in the book, and I'll still have my loop straps from Tuff River Stuff connected to frame and oars.


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## yesimapirate (Oct 18, 2010)

In regards to the film, I'll take any river content. Was it perfect? No. Has there been a perfect river film that encapsulates all topics that involve rivers? I haven't seen it. And don't you even think about throwing Burt Reynolds and Merrl Streep's names out. Entertaining, possibly. Accurate depiction of rivers, not close.

Also, they didn't mention the introduction of tamarisk, and it's impacts.

And how did they get thru Gates or Deso/Grays and not have 1 mention of mosquitoes??? 

All the same, I'll share it on socials because even with imperfections it's still better content than housewives of roaring fork valley.


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## smhoeher (Jun 14, 2015)

I enjoyed watching it. Kind of fragmented, sometimes with no direction, so I'm still not sure what the story is actually about. Conservation? Politics? History? Recreation? 
River boaters are definitely not the targeted audience.


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## Senor D (May 22, 2018)

Electric-Mayhem said:


> I'll probably try again.... but I had to stop two minutes into it with the gratuitous slow motion raft rigging scene.


LOL. I said "Well, you know NRS is sponsoring this cause they're showing LOTS of cam strapping".


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

Senor D said:


> LOL. I said "Well, you know NRS is sponsoring this cause they're showing LOTS of cam strapping".


That's exactly what my daughter said...and Yeti and Chaco.


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## BastrdSonOfElvis (Mar 24, 2005)

Product placement is THE most important part of any video content these days so...
Well, that and pushing the narrative.


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## hooligan shmulligan (Jan 31, 2020)

MT4Runner said:


> Eh, depends on how people handle their politics on the river. Most river runners tend toward liberal, I also have conservative friends and a few who share my angry libertarian proclivities. If we can have an informative and respectful conversation, I fully welcome it. If people want to browbeat others about their opinions, they're probably highly opinionated about other things and don't make good tripmates in general.
> 
> 
> The drone footage of Lodore/Echo Park was absolutely stunning.
> ...


I raft with a pretty diverse crowd. When Jess initially invited me it was for the Cat and Grand section. When I got on the Powell web site reading a lot of the bios were CU/Boulder academic types. You know how you know someone is from Boulder? Don't worry it'll be the first thing they talk about.
Working in coal industry I get a lot of shit for it from people like that. I can tolerate it on a short trip but when you're on a 16 day Grand trip schlepping gear and people.Being told you're everything wrong with the world its going to get to you.
The people on the Ladore section were great. The two professors on the section were very frank on how the west was won and pretty much said this is what happened. They didn't vilify anyone and didn't paint the picture of peace love and harmony before whity showed up. USGS was also a participant in it so the entire trip people were conducting different research projects.

The movie is Rig to Flip/Cody and Bens takeaway. For me Tom didn't have a agenda. He invited a lot of different people from the arts and academics to just reflect on the Grand Canyon ,Powell's journey, what we've lost and gained in the 150 years and how the canyon fits into the 21 century. Cody and Ben really narrowed in on a small portion I really hope in the future more of the footage is used and more of the people on the trip are showcased.

As far as sponsorship goes I don't think NRS was even involved with the trip. All the frames and sewn goods came from Down River Equipment. I gave Tom shit about Yeti and said it should of been Canyon Coolers he laughed and said Yeti was the first one to respond to the email. Ceiba handle all of the food pack. It was kind of weird just to show up to a put-in and hop on a brand new boat. They even had a brand new paco and chair for me. Being me I totally derigged and rerigged the boat at Ladore boat ramp in the morning while everyone else was doing there science talks at the gates. I was also informed I was rowing a bomb down the river.Since it had all the chemicals for the black and white photos Bailey was taking. Every night he had a miniature dark room he'd setup on a table and develope the glass plates.


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## k2andcannoli (Feb 28, 2012)

Watching a film about multiday rafting is about as interesting and exciting as watching one on cross country trucking. 

Here's a film my buddy put out several months ago. Its mainly kayaking but y'all might still enjoy.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

hooligan shmulligan said:


> I raft with a pretty diverse crowd. When Jess initially invited me it was for the Cat and Grand section. When I got on the Powell web site reading a lot of the bios were CU/Boulder academic types. You know how you know someone is from Boulder? Don't worry it'll be the first thing they talk about.
> Working in coal industry I get a lot of shit for it from people like that. I can tolerate it on a short trip but when you're on a 16 day Grand trip schlepping gear and people.Being told you're everything wrong with the world its going to get to you.
> The people on the Ladore section were great. The two professors on the section were very frank on how the west was won and pretty much said this is what happened. They didn't vilify anyone and didn't paint the picture of peace love and harmony before whity showed up. USGS was also a participant in it so the entire trip people were conducting different research projects.
> 
> ...


Thank you!

It would be interesting to hear more from those Lodore professors. I'm starting to appreciate "real" American history more and more. What really happened? How did it happen? etc.

Sponsorship was a side note. I don't think product placement detracted from the film. My original takeaway was that the storyline was disjointed.
The other "epic Grand Canyon" film that NRS sponsored 10 years ago seemed more cohesive.








Another video for review/discussion - Remains of a River


Here's one from 10 years ago:




www.mountainbuzz.com







k2andcannoli said:


> Watching a a film about multiday rafting is about as interesting and exciting as watching one on cross country trucking.


And I was going to invite you over Friday night to watch Gods of Glisse VII and eat green bean casserole. Meh.


I figured with all the recent poop-slinging going on on the Buzz that some video review/discussion would be interesting.
Even at the expense of Nana, that Bedrock video actually provided some very good informative/educational discussion. The video at the top of this post missed it with the rescue footage. We didn't see the line-up, we didn't see the flip, we didn't really see both swimmers rescued, we didn't see the setup for the raft re-flip. We only sorta saw the aftermath. It wasn't all that valuable in the storyline of a 1hr movie.



> Here a film my buddy put out several months ago. Its mainly kayaking but y'all might still enjoy.


Post that vid up in a new thread, let's review/discuss!


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## mr. compassionate (Jan 13, 2006)

yesimapirate said:


> Get ready for my armchair QB comment - don't run Cataract without an oar saver. I use oar savers on every trip. Call me any name in the book, and I'll still have my loop straps from Tuff River Stuff connected to frame and oars.


What is an oar saver?


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## GOTY2011 (Mar 18, 2018)

I watched last evening, and having grown up in the Desert SW my comments and experiences are influenced by living on/near SIPI, taking field trips to Acoma and other sites, as well as having had the opportunity to float the Rio Grande, San Juan, the Green from Dutch John to Swinging Bridge, and Gates of Lodore, over the course of the last 40 years.

We have to do better in respecting the rights of the people, environment, and the future of the region. I’m jealous of the folks that got to experience this trip, but not more so than the feeling of remorse that the future looks bleak for all of us. And the only solutions I see are reducing use, no more dams, and returning the land to its original state.


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## J Flo (9 mo ago)

Hi Everybody! I'm thrilled that you all took the opportunity to watch "A River Out of Time". I think it's fair to say that our main goal was to promote dialogue and have conversations about many challenging issues facing the Colorado River Basin. Based on this forum, I think we have had some success. I'll go through and respond to some specific questions throughout the thread but if you have anything you'd like to ask, I'm happy to offer some insights into various aspects of the expedition and subsequent film. Sincerely, Jessica


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## J Flo (9 mo ago)

MT4Runner said:


> Initial impressions: I liked it but didn't love it. I think it tried to be too many things. A buddy river video, an expedition video, a river documentary, a science video, a tribal documentary...but it was none of those things on their own and it didn't weave them very well together.
> I liked the individual footage. The interviews were generally good, but it had jarring transitions between interview footage and river footage.
> 
> I really really really enjoyed the Howard Dennis interview. I think a movie could be shot with all tribal storytellers telling their own stories all the way down the river and it would be incredible. _[[Me too! Howard's perspective and thoughtful insights were greatly appreciated.]]_
> ...


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## yesimapirate (Oct 18, 2010)

mr. compassionate said:


> What is an oar saver?


As long as you've been on here, I have to assume you're trolling me but I'll answer all the same. I've called them oar savers for almost 20 years. You call them what you want. Tethers. Leashes. The item that keeps the oar from floating or sinking away if popped out of oarlock. aka 31:52 in the video









NRS Oar Tethers


Don't lose your oar. The NRS Oar Tether keeps that oar anchored to the boat if it pops off the oarlock or pin. The tough cam buckle lets you easily adjust the length and remove the oar when needed.



www.nrs.com









Phantom Soft Tie Tethers – Cascade River Gear







cascaderivergear.com









Oar Tether, Pair – Cascade River Gear







cascaderivergear.com












Down River Equipment Down River Oar Leash, Deluxe (pair) Accessories More at Down River Equipment


Down River Equipment Down River Oar Leash, Deluxe (pair) Accessories More at Down River Equipment




www.downriverequip.com


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## J Flo (9 mo ago)

yardsells said:


> Of course they didn't credit my buddy who delivered their replacement motor, showed/helped them replace it and hauled out their dead one...
> 
> _[[Jeff Campbell was a key contributor to our success in motoring across Lake Powell and his help was greatly appreciated. We are fallible human beings and certainly didn't mean any disrespect by not including him in the credits. We were thrilled to have Jeff come to a screening of the film at John Wesley Powell River History Museum in Green River, UT. If you are interested in reading more about the expedition and seeing the extensive list of people, businesses and organizations who helped us complete it you can read the attached SCREE (Powell 150) Booklet. Thank you for taking the time to watch the film. Much appreciated. Jessica]]_
> 
> Meh.


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## J Flo (9 mo ago)

hooligan shmulligan said:


> I'm in the background in a few scenes. In hindsight wished I would of done more then just Ladore. But taking months off and being a boatmen for a more liberal crowd kind of scared me. Though the people that were on the Gates section were awesome. Glad they used some stuff from Noel, guy is a great story teller. Glad I got to be part of it and Jess inviting me.


_[[It was wonderful to have you along, even if it was only for a short section. Being able to invite and take some of my best rafting buddies on various sections was definitely one of the best parts for me.]]_


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## J Flo (9 mo ago)

yesimapirate said:


> Get ready for my armchair QB comment - don't run Cataract without an oar saver. I use oar savers on every trip. Call me any name in the book, and I'll still have my loop straps from Tuff River Stuff connected to frame and oars.


_[[In addition to the loss of the oar that was in the film, the cataraft that was on the trip lost one when they went through Satan's Gut in Big Drop 3. However, he had taped "floaties" to each oar (the same kind of arm floaties that you might put on little kids) and we found his oar floating in the reeds a few miles later.]]_


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## J Flo (9 mo ago)

yesimapirate said:


> In regards to the film, I'll take any river content. Was it perfect? No. Has there been a perfect river film that encapsulates all topics that involve rivers? I haven't seen it. And don't you even think about throwing Burt Reynolds and Merrl Streep's names out. Entertaining, possibly. Accurate depiction of rivers, not close.
> 
> Also, they didn't mention the introduction of tamarisk, and it's impacts. _[[Discussing tamarisk is definitely important. We had to leave out numerous worthy topics as it's a one hour documentary. Cody and Ben captured over 16 Terabytes of video and photos and had the arduous and lengthy task of editing/reducing it to a one hour film that engaged the audience and asked viewers to think critically about some of the challenges facing the Colorado River Basin. I think it's safe to say that we'd be happy to conduct another expedition which examines more closely the flora and fauna of the river corridor. ]]_
> 
> ...


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## mr. compassionate (Jan 13, 2006)

yesimapirate said:


> As long as you've been on here, I have to assume you're trolling me but I'll answer all the same. I've called them oar savers for almost 20 years. You call them what you want. Tethers. Leashes. The item that keeps the oar from floating or sinking away if popped out of oarlock. aka 31:52 in the video
> 
> 
> 
> ...


No, sorry didn't mean to troll. I get it now, i call them tethers.


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## 3d3vart (Apr 15, 2010)

k2andcannoli said:


> Watching a film about multiday rafting is about as interesting and exciting as watching one on cross country trucking.
> 
> Here's a film my buddy put out several months ago. Its mainly kayaking but y'all might still enjoy.


And watching a movie about boating through a tiny island of wilderness back east is about as interesting and exciting as watching one about morning jogs through Central Park. I kid, I kid! To each their own! You gotta take the adventure you can find, I guess.


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## yardsells (Jul 14, 2014)

Cool.


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## k2andcannoli (Feb 28, 2012)

3d3vart said:


> And watching a movie about boating through a tiny island of wilderness back east is about as interesting and exciting as watching one about morning jogs through Central Park. I kid, I kid! To each their own! You gotta take the adventure you can find, I guess.


The number of people that have boated some of those creeks and falls is in the 100s, if that. My point was we all know what the Green and Colorado look like. With the funding and size of that film they could have gone somewhere much more unique and actually made a film FOR boaters, not one about them.


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## 2tomcat2 (May 27, 2012)

k2andcannoli said:


> The number of people that have boated some of those creeks and falls is in the 100s, if that. My point was we all know what the Green and Colorado look like. With the funding and size of that film they could have gone somewhere much more unique and actually made a film FOR boaters, not one about them.


What would that look like? What would you like to see (which rivers, carnage, instruction, etc.)
Just curious...


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## k2andcannoli (Feb 28, 2012)

2tomcat2 said:


> What would that look like? What would you like to see (which rivers, carnage, instruction, etc.)
> Just curious...


It's a big world and rivers are everywhere... The 1st choice for where (for me) would without doubt be Siberia. That obviously would be rather impossible right now. Mongolia (think Eastern PNW but bigger) or China are great choices as are Pakistan and India. I'm a sucker for thrills for sure, but I always enjoy a good documentary about the people and places. Its not about killer footage and expert eggheads but the journey and the struggle to see the unseen. Maybe because this was basically a turnkey trip (once the filming started) it lost all aspect of adventure... I guess simply put, if the river has a paved ramp and parking lot, I've already lost interest.


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## Blade&Shaft (May 23, 2009)

I appreciated the spirit of the film, but agree that it was a little all over the place in trying to define its storyline and character. The rigging scenes in the beginning were standard. The videography was slick and I actually really liked the footage of the Uinta Basin leg of the trip - that's a stretch of the river you don't see or hear about much. What an awesome expedition though! I saw this group down on the Grand Canyon and as seasoned guides, we were all pretty envious of them doing the entirety of Powell's run. I also agree that the transitions were a bit harsh and toward the end I felt like the narrative was fizzling out in an effort to get the film over with. Overall, it was worth a watch and I think that a lot of Buzzards, myself included, will serve up some realistically harsh criticism as we are all boaters that live by the water and therefore will be the hardest crowd to happily consume this film. Not sure I could do much better. My wife fell asleep while watching it. 

I'll continue watching beater vids in the meantime, but thanks for sharing. Good way to spend a lazy cold night at home.


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## yesimapirate (Oct 18, 2010)

k2andcannoli said:


> The number of people that have boated some of those creeks and falls is in the 100s, if that. My point was we all know what the Green and Colorado look like. With the funding and size of that film they could have gone somewhere much more unique and actually made a film FOR boaters, not one about them.


I know it's not unheard of, but how about the fact that they got Gates, Deso, Cataract, and Grand permits to all line up for one epic trip? Perhaps they got special permits, but if not.... that's a feat in and of itself. (and yes, I know Cat permits are easy) Perhaps the editing or storyline aren't at big budget expectations, but like Jessica said - they had 7 TB of videos to dig thru and it was only 2 dudes. The fact that they got to float and video the vast majority of one of the US's major drainages, I don't care if it was the clunkiest film I would still watch it and appreciate it. If all we do is bash people's work and say this is stupid they should've done a different project, do you think that will lead to anyone else wanting to do any projects like this? To critique what might've been better I can see as valid on a forum that is full of critics, but to say the project should've been scrapped and do something else... I don't agree. They took on a project. Sponsors agreed to that project. I'll leave it at that.

And in this era of the most ignorant tiktok blips getting millions of views - I'll watch this video more than once, click like, share it, and say kudos to the river rats that were able to make it happen.


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## k2andcannoli (Feb 28, 2012)

Yeah it's amazing that Uncle Sam allowed them to boat the public's rivers... Let's hope the video gets a billion views and everyone in America gets a ready to run rig from DRE. There's enough permits to go around I'm sure 🙄


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## Idatah (Dec 30, 2021)

I liked it. I really enjoyed and appreciated the material that Ben K and others have posted over the last couple of years, including during the filming. I went in with no expectations and wasn't disappointed. I'm assuming they ran it on mostly science/research permits (J Flo, can you share?). I appreciate the time these folks put into this, they don't owe us anything.

I agree that the beans scene was not needed.

Also, thanks to NRS for putting this out there to the larger public audience. They obviously weren't a major sponsor and I appreciated that it wasn't an NRS fashion show. Cool of them.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

Jessica, first of all, THANK YOU for taking the time to respond in person. As both @Blade&Shaft and @yesimapirate both noted, we're probably a harsh group of critics on this forum, especially also being river lovers...and also the fact that it's winter and we wish we were out boating and instead are arguing with each other on the internet to pass the time.



J Flo said:


> Hi Everybody! I'm thrilled that you all took the opportunity to watch "A River Out of Time". I think it's fair to say that our main goal was to promote dialogue and have conversations about many challenging issues facing the Colorado River Basin. Based on this forum, I think we have had some success. I'll go through and respond to some specific questions throughout the thread but if you have anything you'd like to ask, I'm happy to offer some insights into various aspects of the expedition and subsequent film. Sincerely, Jessica





J Flo said:


> I really really really enjoyed the Howard Dennis interview. I think a movie could be shot with all tribal storytellers telling their own stories all the way down the river and it would be incredible. _[[Me too! Howard's perspective and thoughtful insights were greatly appreciated.]]_




If you could produce some shorter followup features of him or other indigenous trip participants, that would be awesome. Their point of view and voices haven't been heard as much as others.. 



> I didn't understand the interview with the artist. He talked about it like an unfinished "project" but we never saw any finished art. [[_Patrick Kikut was the lead artist for the expedition. Prior to launching, Pat and 7 other artists created a wide variety of artwork which was on display at four different museums throughout the basin. After the expedition, Pat created 18 more oil paintings and has contributed artwork to three different publications. If you want to see two of his large paintings in person, you can visit me at my shop in downtown Laramie, WY. They are gorgeous.]]_




Can you link some of those? I'm a 13 hour drive away from Wyoming. It's cool that they were inspired, but I'd love to see some of the art this trip inspired.
That might also be worth a followup featurette.

_



Powell's role was the focus as the 150th anniversary of his expedition offered us the opportunity to retrace his route and consider the many challenging issues facing water in the West for the next 150 years. We worked to foster dialogue about current relevant issues facing the basin and its users rather than focus too much on the past.

Click to expand...

_THANK YOU again. 
The Colorado and related water issues are already a topic of frequent conversation here. I think you did kickstart some additional worthy dialogue.
Sincerely,
Shawn


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## Down River Equipment (Apr 12, 2006)

yardsells said:


> Of course they didn't credit my buddy who delivered their replacement motor, showed/helped them replace it and hauled out their dead one...
> 
> Meh.


I'm sure a credit in the movie would be more meaningful, but Jessica and Tom did give him good props and recognition when they showed the film at our movie night event.


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## Montet202 (Aug 22, 2020)

k2andcannoli said:


> The number of people that have boated some of those creeks and falls is in the 100s, if that. My point was we all know what the Green and Colorado look like. With the funding and size of that film they could have gone somewhere much more unique and actually made a film FOR boaters, not one about them.


Did you watch it? It’s not about boating as much as it is about that particular watershed and it’s issues. The multi day trip was the vehicle for getting the issues out to be discussed.


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## theusualsuspect (Apr 11, 2014)

The hardest permit to get was the lodore permit. Uncle Sam said if they scored lodore they would help with the others. That’s what they said during a screening and I’m sure a film contributor can clarify.


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## hooligan shmulligan (Jan 31, 2020)

More info


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## k2andcannoli (Feb 28, 2012)

Montet202 said:


> Did you watch it? It’s not about boating as much as it is about that particular watershed and it’s issues.  The multi day trip was the vehicle for getting the issues out to be discussed.


Of course I did...and if you watch the short film I 
originally posted, it to touched on a particular watershed and it's geology (less about our indigenous neighbors obviously, as the eastern tribes are sadly far removed from their traditional lands...or worse). I suppose my smart ass remarks may have come off wrong.

I was asked what I'd like to see in a WW documentary and I responded. This film while obviously worthwhile, just ain't to my taste. 

As someone planning on a White through Deso trip this spring, I'm terribly jealous of the members of this production that got to row all those beautiful miles.


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## denali1322 (Jun 3, 2013)

MT4Runner said:


> I think it tried to be too many things. A buddy river video, an expedition video, a river documentary, a science video, a tribal documentary...but it was none of those things on their own and it didn't weave them very well together.


I really wanted to like this documentary. MT4Runner hit it on the head - I couldn't figure out what this was trying to say to me as it skimmed the surface of so many topics. I realize the broad scope perhaps stimulates discussions on lots of topics (not a bad thing), but as a stand alone documentary, I thought this fell short. Nothing inaccurate about the messages - we're running out of water, we flooded glorious canyons, art is nice, big rapids can go bad, white people ruined everything, native americans got screwed, etc; but it superficially hit on all these points. Not trying to be a hater as I appreciate the challenge of something like this - like I said, I really wanted to like this.


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## DismalRiverRunner (Oct 30, 2020)

I watched the entire documentary and enjoyed most of it. I do agree with many that constant vilification of "American" History is getting old. I don't think any country on this planet has a history of rainbows and unicorns. Let's start focusing on making the future brighter instead of trying dig up every skeleton of the past. 

Unfortunately overpopulation is the subject that always gets skirted when we talk about the over-use of our natural resources. Growing municipalities with millions of people are really what is weighing in on the issue. The Colorado is just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to water and water rights in this country. Sad but true. There is also a chance 10 years from now there will be flooding all over the West and the flood gates will be open trying to rid these old rickety Dams of every gallon possible. I believe the right approach is conservation but the future is never predictable.


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