# Group Costs???



## BreckBoater (May 7, 2014)

Just curious......how would most of you divide a 20 person Cat trip. Group items included all groover supplies, kitchen supplies, permits, and shuttles. 

Question is......would you divide the trip per person, or per raft????


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## colorado_steve (May 1, 2011)

per person


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## kengore (May 29, 2008)

We divide the river trip expenses per person, but since we have a mix of adults, kids and non-drinkers we do BYOB and encourage lots of trading/sharing. If the group car pools and some vehicles pull trailers loaded with group gear we might include fuel in the group costs.


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## jennifer (Oct 14, 2003)

Per person.


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## [email protected] (Jun 1, 2010)

Per person and always make it clear what expenses are being split equally. I.E. everything except the plane ticket for the guy from New York City!!


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## Randaddy (Jun 8, 2007)

Per person, but cook groups should buy all of the food for the meals that they sign up for. It gets to be too much when people start comparing grocery receipts...


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## climbdenali (Apr 2, 2006)

We haven't had great luck with the buy groceries for your days scheme. It makes packing a pain, and we usually wind up with one spaghetti and hotdogs asshole who spent a third what most of the other groups spent.

We always split per person, and usually include shuttle, food, fuel to/from a selected destination where the majority of the gear is coming from. Most of us are from nearby anyway. It blows when 5 kayakers hop into a subaru and split their fuel, and two of us hop into a pickup with trailer and 4 rafts and have to split fuel.


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## robfather (Dec 24, 2003)

Find a new crew if ur peeps r not pulling their weight. If u have to ask or r in question??. Their out!


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## Schutzie (Feb 5, 2013)

Per person

but Kayakers pay triple.

You know, cause they always drink the last beer


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## wyosam (May 31, 2006)

climbdenali said:


> We haven't had great luck with the buy groceries for your days scheme. It makes packing a pain, and we usually wind up with one spaghetti and hotdogs asshole who spent a third what most of the other groups spent.
> 
> We always split per person, and usually include shuttle, food, fuel to/from a selected destination where the majority of the gear is coming from. Most of us are from nearby anyway. It blows when 5 kayakers hop into a subaru and split their fuel, and two of us hop into a pickup with trailer and 4 rafts and have to split fuel.


Simple solution to hot dog man. Secret ballot for worst meal. Most votes cleans the groover at the takeout.


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## BoilermakerU (Mar 13, 2009)

I've only split costs per person once. It sucked. Everyone passing change back and forth, this person owes that person $16.72 and that person owes someone else $ 14.95, etc.

The group I go with splits responsibility for meals and gear evenly, taking into account what each person owns and can offer. Everyone does their own lunch, snacks and beer, although it inevitably gets shared across everyone of course. Everyone plans meals accordingly taking kids into account (most of us in our trips have them). Everyone does a dinner and a breakfast. Everyone brings dinner snacks, some wine, margaritas, etc to go with their meal. We split responsibility for some things like coffee, OJ, milk, etc (you bring a gallon of milk, I'll bring a gallon of OJ, etc). We just plan out the trip ahead of time with who is bringing what, and we've never had a complaint since. It's been WAY easier and more pleasant. 

In terms of transportation, everyone pays for their own gas to get to the put-in, everyone pays for their own gas to get home. We don't sweat who gets better gas mileage. The way I look at it is that I would have to get there and back whether I am going by myself, or with a group of 20.

The shuttle we split on a per vehicle basis. For example, if we have 4 vehicles and we drive 3 to the takeout and then pay to shuttle the 4th, we split the cost of the shuttle and the cost to fill the tank of that 4th vehicle 4 ways. Or, we just all pay to have our own vehicles shuttled. Either way, it's a per vehicle cost. Again, doesn't matter if there are 1 or 8 people that came in that vehicle, it has to get shuttled somehow.

We split permit costs on a per person basis, because that is usually how the permit works anyhow. That's about the only thing that goes that way, but the math is usually pretty easy.

Granted, we typically go with the same families (give or take a family or two) each time, so we all trust one another and know what to expect from one another. It's a lot more fun to not have to be a certified CPA at the end of the trip. LOL

If I were going with strangers, maybe it would be a different story, but with known groups, I like to keep it simple......


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## catwoman (Jun 22, 2009)

Per person on food, propane, shuttle, and sometimes fuel (damn kayakers and their Subaru). But, I have always forgiven the trivial amounts (<$20) I might be owed. 

One TL I know always issues a minor credit for the persons who supply groover and kitchen, and always suggests a maximum cost for meals. I like that. The best way to avoid argument is to be sure the TL is specific upfront. Some folks are on tighter budgets than others. 


Related question: What is an appropriate food cost? We recently did an eight person 22 day GC trip in which the group food, ice, propane, and charcoal came to around $16/person/day, including appetizers and desserts. The group handled all the food, no service company involved. I thought it was a pretty reasonable cost, and the food was quite good.


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## cataraftgirl (Jun 5, 2009)

We split everything per person. We are a smaller group who boats together all the time so we all know the system. Keep your receipts for what you provide.....food, supplies, gas, etc. Our trip leader is a math whiz/human calculator, and we figure it all out over burgers & milkshakes after we get off the river. Not difficult, and no problems.

Whatever system you use is cool as long as you communicate it clearly before the trip.


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## B4otter (Apr 20, 2009)

Longer trips, >5 or 6 days, actually drive the cost per person per day (pp/day) down as you eventually start running dinners w/dry (beans/pasta, rice) or canned (chicken/tuna/salmon) versus fresh everything, same for breakfasts and lunches. As those w/little or no access to fresh food can attest (many on food stamps, a lot of inner city residents), it's cheaper to buy cans or dried stuff...
$16 pp/day is *excellent* for a Grand trip (or any other!) esp. including ice, propane and charcoal. "Quite good..." isn't ringing endorsement, but pro'lly better than many folks eat at home. I'm budgeting $20 pp/day for same on a 16 person 17 night trip later this year, will refund any dimes and nickels if that's too generous.


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## daledevon (Jun 10, 2013)

Count the number of people. If any of the people have very large breasts, give them 50% discount. Those willing to cook get a 15% discount on the days they cook. If someone cleans the groover, they go for free. Charge double for anybody under 18. If someone talks politics during the trip, they get charged 50% more. Any body that brings Tofu also pays 20% more. Have a pre party with much alcohol to figure out the math. Pretty simple.


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## robfather (Dec 24, 2003)

Schutzie said:


> Per person
> 
> but Kayakers pay triple.
> 
> You know, cause they always drink the last beer


Yeah I'm sure that means something?


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## Schutzie (Feb 5, 2013)

robfather said:


> Yeah I'm sure that means something?


Um, a joke.

If it offends, sorry. You can insert whatever you want for Kayaker; conservative, liberal, Texan, politician, lawyer........... whatever floats your boat.

Me, I pick on Kayakers cause they have a sense of humor, and as a general rule have spent enough time upside down that they often miss my pokes at them. (another joke in case you are a Kayaker) :lol:


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## Curtiso (May 18, 2011)

*Spreadsheet*

Our group uses a spreadsheet where we put in what everyone has spent on the trip (for group needs; gas, food, permit, etc.) Then it shows how much was spent for the entire trip and how much each person owes. Shoot me an email if you would like it. [email protected]


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## rivers2run (Jun 7, 2012)

We do it per person, we all send the trip leader a set amount of money based on what we think the trip will cost, usually we add in a few bucks extra because it is easier to refund people. That money is used to purchase groceries, no booze, drinks or lunches are charged as a group cost, because everyone provides their own. We have a shopping list based on menus and go out and purchase everything, since we will sometimes spend over $1,000 for a longer trip the grocery stores will often give us a discount. Shuttles are paid by individuals using a vehicle so if 3 people are involved in 1 car it is divided 3 ways. If only 1 person is using a shuttle they pay 100%. Usually we group up to make it fairly even. After the trip any extra money is distributed back evenly. Much easier than having 6 people go out and purchase stuff, and we often get a discount. Paying in advance ensures people are serious about the trip, cuts down on last minute cancellations.


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## D-Sieve (Mar 15, 2012)

climbdenali said:


> It blows when 5 kayakers hop into a subaru and split their fuel, and two of us hop into a pickup with trailer and 4 rafts and have to split fuel.


If it takes 4 rafts to get you and your buddy downstream, you're bringing too much stuff. Leave something at home!


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## Aerocam (Jul 11, 2011)

We have large groups, (20+) and usually max out a Rogue permit and could bring more. Multiple families = almost 1/2 of the trip are kids, (6-14).

All trip expenses except alcohol are split per person. 

Whatever it takes to make the trip happen = trip expense. Shuttles, permits, boat rentals, food, etc. Everyone is responsible for getting themselves there. There are no discounts for being a kid or penalties for not having your own raft.

An approximate deposit is due a month ahead of time for working capital, (buying food). One person plans/purchases food. All the adults used to be guides so it's not that hard. The banker keeps track of the total and bankroles the rest. Within a week or so post trip and after everything is totaled people either pay the banker or get a refund.

For us, it's about being on the river with my best friends and our kids. This is the easiest for us. We try and keep the nickel and dimeing to a minimum.


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## rivers2run (Jun 7, 2012)

We don't take kayakers on multi-day trips (nothing against kayakers, there just aren't any in our group). If we did they would pay part of the gas for rafts, based on mileage, giving preference to the rafting group that carried their gear.


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