# Salt closure 2021



## mania (Oct 21, 2003)

I was thinking about entering a salt lottery for 2021 but you can't. I asked Don about it and here is what he sent me FYI


> Hi Mania:
> 
> This is based on my conversation with the WMAT Recreation Director, which I had again yesterday. They are going into a complete closure and he has only very little hope that they will re-open in time for river season. They opened it temporarily so that tribal members could hunt, but will soon replace the big concrete barriers cabled together at the Highway. He said I would be his first call should they re-open before or during the season, at which point we will likely go with a first come first served permit.
> 
> ...


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## yardsells (Jul 14, 2014)

bummer.


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## spencerhenry (Jun 21, 2004)

Stupid
99.8% survival rate across the whole population. Statistically 100% if you are in good health.


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## craven_morhead (Feb 20, 2007)

spencerhenry said:


> Stupid
> 99.8% survival rate across the whole population. Statistically 100% if you are in good health.


Can we not with this? It's not binary - the only to results are not "you are fine" or "you die." But not every thread needs to be a referendum about whether the pandemic is a Big Deal or Not a Big Deal.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

craven_morhead said:


> Can we not with this? It's not binary - the only to results are not "you are fine" or "you die." But not every thread needs to be a referendum about whether the pandemic is a Big Deal or Not a Big Deal.


Thanks craven_morhead. The situation sucks, but it is what it is.

My opinion lies in the middle. 
More importantly, I do respect the decision of sovereign tribal nations to make their own rules, even while it kept me from boating the lower Flathead through the CSKT tribal lands.


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## Roseldo (Aug 27, 2020)

spencerhenry said:


> Stupid
> 99.8% survival rate across the whole population. Statistically 100% if you are in good health.


99.8% is not statistically 100%. In large populations, fractions of a percent make a huge difference.


MT4Runner said:


> Thanks craven_morhead. The situation sucks, but it is what it is.
> 
> My opinion lies in the middle.
> More importantly, I do respect the decision of sovereign tribal nations to make their own rules, even while it kept me from boating the lower Flathead through the CSKT tribal lands.


I think this is definitely an important point...beyond tribal sovereignty, there has also been a huge disparity in how this has affected Native Americans. I routinely work with several tribes, and the stories and the devastation there are in another universe compared to our small reservation adjacent town. I can understand a tribe wanting to prevent outside recreational tourism while they're all quarantined at home.


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## 2tomcat2 (May 27, 2012)

Thanks for the info, mania
It is discouraging for river runners...lack of snow and potential loss of a river season
It is a very tough time for the human race and all that live on planet Earth


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## reinharden (May 19, 2009)

spencerhenry said:


> Stupid
> 99.8% survival rate across the whole population. Statistically 100% if you are in good health.


By way of comparison, the case fatality rate in the Navajo Nation has been roughly 5%.

Who knows what the White Mountain Apache case fatality rate might be? But I can't say that I blame them for not wanting to invite outsiders onto their land if it might kill 1 out of every 20 tribe members.


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## AZ boater (Aug 29, 2014)

What's really a shame here, is that you can't even putin at Gleason, river left on the NF side. There are plenty of campgrounds on river left down to Roosevelt from Gleason, so a boater never has to step on Apache land. 0.0% chance floating from Gleason down will spread covid to tribal members. But closing this section of river if good flows do come, will be very detrimental to the mental health of local boaters.


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## okieboater (Oct 19, 2004)

any one know the condition of the dirt road from the paved highway down to Gleason Flats?

Would it take a big 4wd vehicle to get down to the river.

Gleason would make a good alternate put in for the Salt. Any one know if a Gleason put in has been pitched to the rangers?


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## AZ boater (Aug 29, 2014)

The river left road to Gleason is fit for a honda civic until the last mile, then you might need a honda accord (ok maybe something with 7 inches of clearance). 
This is the statement the US govt has put forth:
The Tonto NF supports the White Mountain Apache Tribes decision to close due to the Covid-19 pandemic. The Tribal Lands on river right, which run 29 miles down from the put-in, are closed and extend well below Gleason Flat, so the Forest will not be issuing permits (required) to enter the river there. The boundary is the middle of the river, and it is not possible to run the river below Gleason without entering their lands.
I hate to go into a ridiculous rant and brining up age old BS legal issues, but I feel it is needed at this time.:

A boater can totally float from NF side at Gleason and not step foot on Apache land.
However, _The boundary is the middle of the river, and it is not possible to run the river below Gleason without entering their lands. _So, does floating on water that is river right of the “middle of the river” constitute “entering their lands”. If you say it does then:
Technically, an experienced kayaker, who knows the run could totally stay river left of this magical centerline in the river. Would the kayaker be thinking about that when there is no one around anyway that you could spread covid to even if you were a terrorist (there no roads that access the river from tribal land below Gleason)? Well no; but he or she would camp river left.
I’ll stop there; but I do encourage everyone to “pitch to the rangers” as Okie said, that some sort of common sense should prevail.


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## okieboater (Oct 19, 2004)

That river center line decision does not make sense to me. The water and air on both sides of the river center line has to be mixed content to the max.


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