# Ruby Horsethief Fire Suspect



## stuntsheriff

Put Ryan Huff in jail for a year or two.


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## restrac2000

Cases like this challenge my values and ideas. The classic choice is incarceration and that would definitely be cathartic. That said, it ends up costing us the taxpayers and ultimately doesn't offset the damage down to Ruby Horsethief. More and more I think the agencies should collaborate to have multi-year bans for individuals like this. He showed a flagrant disregard for law and the environment. He damaged a resource that won't heal in our lifetimes and I do not believe he should have the privilege of using it again. Sadly, there is no way to enforce that concept without requiring groups to name everyone on their roster and increase general oversight which is also unappealing. Like I said before, gear confiscation does seem in order.

I hope they require him to pay off the large cost of suppression and rehabilitation from the fire. That to me would be justice. Even if it over decades I think it would be a proper consequence for his actions as well a deterrent for others. 

It would be immensely disappointing and a failure of justice if his connection to a company that has been philanthropic to the region affects the legal outcome. Fingers crossed that does not happen.

Such a bummer to see another fire in such a beloved river corridor. We just don't have many cottonwood galleries left in these places and it will decade many decades for them to provide the shade and ecological benefit again.

Phillip


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## yetigonecrazy

I vote for a Singapore style of punishment: public canings. 15 lashes, to be carried out in full view of the greater public. Public shame, humiliation, and a little bit of pain (but not enough to kill) is way more effective than most punishments the government could dole out.....


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## peak

this is starting to feel like a mob fueled witch hunt. beware.

I too was pissed when I heard about the fire, then I floated it last weekend. Not saying fireworks during a fireban or being from Breck are okay, but...Its not that bad. It aint miles of scorched earth in the canyon, you'll be wondering where the fire was when you float RH next summer. Also, fires happen in nature, but natural causes help us feel better about them.

I'm sure (I hope) the perp feels like a tool. After he changes his name, and we meet him on the river, we'll prob think hes not that bad...


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## Randaddy

peak said:


> this is starting to feel like a mob fueled witch hunt. beware.


Fuck that guy. Let the witch hunt begin. I'll get my pitchfork! Some bro bra Breckenridge POS burns a camp at Ruby and we should be gentle? Fuck Ryan Huff and fuck Breckenridge!


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## restrac2000

peak said:


> this is starting to feel like a mob fueled witch hunt. beware.
> 
> I too was pissed when I heard about the fire, then I floated it last weekend. Not saying fireworks during a fireban or being from Breck are okay, but...Its not that bad. It aint miles of scorched earth in the canyon, you'll be wondering where the fire was when you float RH next summer. Also, fires happen in nature, but natural causes help us feel better about them.
> 
> I'm sure (I hope) the perp feels like a tool. After he changes his name, and we meet him on the river, we'll prob think hes not that bad...


I don't support the witch hunt mentality but I cannot write off his actions as "not that bad". He willingly and knowingly took illegal items into a area with a fire ban and destroyed one of the limited resources there for boaters. On the big scale of the environment does one island on the Colorado River matter? Maybe not. But in the scheme of the region we are already losing cottonwoods because of dams (juvenile recruitment is down with the lack of flooding) and healthy riparian areas are severely limited and damaged through the river system.

It matters ecological and recreationally. His unethical and illegal actions should bear the weight of the actual costs. I believe that should happen in a just way in a court of law that recognizes the footprint he has as well as the statement it makes to other land abusers.

Phillip


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## bucketboater

You guys are ridiculous. Thinking a employer should be responsible for a off the clock employee and 1 to 2 year jail sentence for a little fire. Please, you don't even get one to two days for a dwi and that kills thousands of innocent people each year. The first thing I thought when I saw the pictures and video is no one will notice some burnt underbrush next year. Someone who just recently floated the river posted the same thing. What he did was dumb but turned out not to be a big deal and should be treated as such. The fine and having your picture in the paper is more than enough for me.


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## BreckBoater

I was not on this trip, but I can only speculate. Breck Grand Vacations does some good things for the local Community, but that has nothing to do w/ a sanctioned or non-sanctioned "Employee Raft Trip". Their work crew def RAGES, and I have witnessed this firsthand. They had another incident about 10 years ago when one of their Employees were raging on Main St in Breck.....jumped onto the trunk of a car while highly intoxicated.....now a TBI patient. 
Breck Grand vacations has ruined the Peak 7 and 8 Base areas, and their Team seems to consist of people who seem to give a shit less about the environment. I am sure that there probably was NOT a speech by the TL at the Put-In re: Fire Dangers. Whoever the TL is....unfortunately, this burden should fall on their shoulders. Yes....blame the person w/ the Fireworks......but, I am pretty sure that others in the group were "in the know" re: the fireworks. 
Maybe Grand Vacations will do what is right and repair this area, along w/ a few other areas to make this right?! Okay Millisor Borthers (Owners of Breck Grand Vacations) that are Multi-Millionaires.......I am pretty sure that you guys covered the cost of this trip for YOUR employees.....so STEP UP!


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## lmyers

bucketboater said:


> You guys are ridiculous. Thinking a employer should be responsible for a off the clock employee and 1 to 2 year jail sentence for a little fire. Please, you don't even get one to two days for a dwi and that kills thousands of innocent people each year. The first thing I thought when I saw the pictures and video is no one will notice some burnt underbrush next year. Someone who just recently floated the river posted the same thing. What he did was dumb but turned out not to be a big deal and should be treated as such. The fine and having your picture in the paper is more than enough for me.


Have you boated this stretch? Have you seen the slow recovery work in the Mee Canyon area where new cottonwoods have been replanted to attempt to revegetate the last fire? Doubtful. There was actually a work crew camped a short distance down stream from this group that was working to plant more trees.....how disheartening this must be for them. This is probably the most popular overnight in the state of Colorado (competing with the Upper C), and the loss of a large and beautiful cottonwood gallery in a heavily used canyon will be a sorely missed resource. His actions should not be taken lightly, and I do feel punishment should be significant.


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## stuntsheriff

Huff has prior arrests for shoplifting, possession of alcohol as a minor, and driving under the influence in Colorado, according to Colorado Bureau of Investigation records.

birds of a feather.


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## Plecoptera

The woman in the Hayman fire got 6 years of Fed jail time, the state trial judge tried to give her 15 years. This guy is a Fed case. Feds have long memories, and will know about every penny he earns until the fine is paid (Fed judge in Haymen case thought original $14 million fine was excessive). Fines and restitution orders survive bankruptcy. My bet is this will prove to be a frowned on activity, and they will seek to send an unambiguous message for all to contemplate for the future. Moral: don't fuck with the 
Feds.


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## sj

Which Hunt Indeed. A large group of my employees are on RH right now not a sanctioned trip but none the less the whole connection is work. I loaned some gear am I liable? Well am I? Do you people calling out Grand Vacations have any proof the trip was a company trip? And dissing a whole town for the actions of one. Some Ark valley locals had to kill a rattle snake at zoom flume no one blamed the whole Valley for that incredible lameness. The dude should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law which should include a ban on permitted rivers period IMO end of story. sj


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## lmyers

sj said:


> Which Hunt Indeed. A large group of my employees are on RH right now not a sanctioned trip but none the less the whole connection is work. I loaned some gear am I liable? Well am I? Do you people calling out Grand Vacations have any proof the trip was a company trip? And dissing a whole town for the actions of one. Some Ark valley locals had to kill a rattle snake at zoom flume no one blamed the whole Valley for that incredible lameness. The dude should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law which should include a ban on permitted rivers period IMO end of story. sj


Because that comparison is relevant....

I'm not pushing for the crucifixion of Breck Grand Vacations, but if they are such stewards of their community and the environment,
Breckenridge Grand Vacations given state philanthropy award | SummitDaily.com 
then it seems a donation of several dozen Fremont Cottonwood saplings to either the BLM or perhaps Canyonlands Field Institute would be an appropriate action that would be noticed and appreciated by the river running community...


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## sj

Ok so Employers are now financially responsible for employees behavior on said employees day off ? In your world I would be responsible for a person I hire at entry level on their weekends.


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## lmyers

No, not responsible, but if it is a company trip where you supplied the gear it just seems like the right thing to do. Especially if BGV is financially successful enough to throw around millions in donations...


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## sj

If my gosh IF. Not one person in this thread knows IF it was a sponsored trip IF it was then yes they should step up. But to sit here and totally slam a company that does so much good and have absolutely NO PROOF that's right NO PROOF they even knew one of their employees was on a river some were. They give millions to the community here I run a small biz and they support me daily so I will talk to them today and ask that they throw some love to the river community if they knew if not. YOU can buy a few cottonwoods for the river community how's that. sj


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## lmyers

It wasn't "one" of their employees from the sound of it. According to the article it was a "rafting trip with coworkers". If BGV doesn't care to financially help rectify the actions of one of their managers that's fine, they have no obligation to do so. I expect nothing less.


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## sj

You're just talking in circles. Co workers recreating together does not equal company sponsored trip.


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## Randaddy

I think the whole town of Breckenridge should be responsible for paying to heli-lift mature cottonwoods in and bury the roots. If you live there or have a condo there you owe $500. You owe and additional $500 for each child in your household.


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## lmyers

There is no point arguing with you because you have a financial motivation to defend BGV. I feel they have a moral obligation to the state of Colorado to help mitigate the damage done. There is no legal obligation. It's just the right thing to do, and from what I read a few dozen cottonwood saplings would be a drop in the bucket. I did not say it was a company sponsored trip, but if multiple employees were on the trip as implied then BGV knew about the trip and in my opinion it reflects on the type of company they run/employees they hire. I would think this would be motivation for them to make some kind of public ammends....


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## sj

Ms. Meyers your Socialist leanings are coming through loud and clear as well as your ability to jump to conclusions. I retired and got bored I do not need anybody's money nor do I let it sway me one way or another. This is about personal responsibility to me I know a dirty word to you. The kid that started the fire is solely responsible and should be punished to the full extent of the law. Which I hope includes jail time ,restitution and a life time ban on permitted rivers. And further more you sound like the Mike Huckabee feeling like you solely can judge large groups of people from what you've read on the internet. sj


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## sj

Randdaddy. I will talk to the Mayor about serving the jail time as this is an example of the kind of person he lets into town and he should pay. sj


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## BreckBoater

*Shot-Ski*

So, this same Company also Sponsors the "World's Longest Shot Ski" every year during Ullr Fest in Breck. What if an employee were to do damage to the Town Of Breck's Property during this event? I am sure that either the Employee, or BGV, would be the responsible party......would they not???

Bottom line....this Crew was wreckless, yahoo's, and everyone on that trip should be banned for life from Ruby/Horsethief, due to either their direct participation or guilt by association.

Then....we can see if your conversation w/ the Millisor's @ BGV went well, and we will ALL be able to enjoy new Cottonwood Saplings, and a reclaimed Dog Island next Spring?!


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## restrac2000

There is a fundamental difference between sponsoring an event and coworkers going on a trip together. If/when it becomes part of the public record that this was a sponsored trip by the company than I think the implication, moral and legal, will be settled. The speculation and simple connection to the company at this point doesn't seem to be much to stand on.

For example, my wife and her female coworkers go out to dinner every month? Say one person gets drunk and causes a ruckus? Is the company ethically obligated to cover for any issue that may arise in that situation? I have talked about getting some of the veteran skiers from my program together for the summer to maintain contact but it would be all out of pocket and unpaid? Is the resort liable ethically for our actions? Answering yes to those is an expansion well outside of what I understand to be accurate.

I often argue that people should consider the implications of their actions on their off-time but that is different than spreading defuse responsibility to the company. Personal accountability is paramount in this case, until (if/when) details confirm it was a company trip. 

Phillip


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## stuntsheriff

"The kid that started the fire is solely responsible and should be punished to the full extent of the law. Which I hope includes jail time ,restitution and a life time ban on permitted rivers." Exactly. 
Personal responsibility and accountability . Sorely lacking in America today. 🇺🇸


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## caverdan

stuntsheriff said:


> "The kid that started the fire is solely responsible and should be punished to the full extent of the law. Which I hope includes jail time ,restitution and a life time ban on permitted rivers." Exactly.
> Personal responsibility and accountability . Sorely lacking in America today. 🇺🇸


 I totally agree with this statement. I'm glad the guys name is out there for the world to see.


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## soggy_tortillas

sj said:


> Ms. Meyers your Socialist leanings are coming through loud and clear as well as your ability to jump to conclusions.
> 
> This is about personal responsibility to me I know a dirty word to you.
> 
> And further more you sound like the Mike Huckabee feeling like you solely can judge large groups of people from what you've read on the internet. sj


Hmmmmm.... awful lot of conclusions you jumped to in that comment...:roll:


Tough to say what defines a company trip. Many places in Steamboat have end of season parties and trips... I would consider that an organized company trip, and for that I would consider the company liable.
On the other hand, if it's just a bunch of workers getting together for some fun that's totally different. Anybody know if BGV does something along these lines every year?
If every one of the people on the trip were employees, this certainly isn't going to help BGV's image. I agree with LMeyers that they could pay for a few dozen cottonwood saplings, maybe even send out the employees that were on the trip to plant them.
I'd volunteer to re-tree any stretch of river.


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## sj

Jumping to Conclusions interesting choice of words considering the initial Law Enforcement Report issued One person 2 tickets. No mention of Biz Trip or anything like that. Jumping to Conclusions that was my whole point. I can say everyone that disagrees with me is a Anti Business Socialist that spent time under the Gov's desk in Arkansas and have just as much factual evidence as those that say this was a sponsored trip. 

I will throw in a tree the planting and the watering apparatus. And would be interested in starting another thread about how the heck do you all put river trips together and fill permits other than ask your Family then all the hot people you know then the ones with money that can help you that way And then the people you work with. sj


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## restrac2000

sj said:


> Jumping to Conclusions interesting choice of words considering the initial Law Enforcement Report issued One person 2 tickets. No mention of Biz Trip or anything like that. Jumping to Conclusions that was my whole point. *I can say everyone that disagrees with me is a Anti Business Socialist that spent time under the Gov's desk in Arkansas and have just as much factual evidence as those that say this was a sponsored trip.*
> 
> I will throw in a tree the planting and the watering apparatus. And would be interested in starting another thread about how the heck do you all put river trips together and fill permits other than ask your Family then all the hot people you know then the ones with money that can help you that way And then the people you work with. sj


WTF? This requires an entire gallery of side eye gifs:


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## lmyers

I don't fill all my permits. Sometimes a small trip is better. Especially if you have to bring a douche with fireworks to fill it. My statements are personal opinion and I stand by them. If you don't agree that's fine....feel free to call me whatever you want.


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## sj

You are entitled to your opinion and I listened respectfully then pointed out how I thought you were jumping to conclusions and IMO wrongfully speculating about others. Again one person was issued 2 tickets and should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. I pledged my tree. You going to be part of the solution or continue to slander others for no apparent reason you to Breck boater. sj


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## lmyers

If you want to start a go fund me account or show me a direct way to contribute to getting a couple trees planted, I'm all over it.


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## jakoby

Dumb move for sure. I believe jail time is excessive. Since there was a fire ban imposed large fines and an enourous amount of community service hopfully would teach this guy a lesson.


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## Canada

An aquintance of mine did hard time for setting off a pipe bomb that started a fire. So, it has happened before.


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## Miller Time

I like how a certain moderator on this thread is making assumptions as if he was on the trip. I believe this is rude content and has no social value.Did you file the police report; talk to anyone on the trip? 

Moderator: someone who leads a discussion in a group and tells each person when to speak. 

It seems you have nothing but opinions on the Buzz. You must respond to EVERY thread, especially those on anything involved in your river valley. 

Is it impossible to believe the employees own their gear and happen to be recreating together on a weekend?

I'm anticipating my 'ban for life' email sometime soon from the Buzz suppression group. And no - I do not live in Breckinridge.


Sent from my iPhone using Mountain Buzz


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## lmyers

Just for your info I had nothing to do with the Porker fiasco. I was out of state when that went down.

I was only suggesting his billionaire philanthropist employer might consider a donation to help mitigate damages done by his/their employee(s). If it sounded like I implied the company is somehow legally liable for his actions, I apologize.

I would have liked to have spoke with someone on that trip, but they snuck out in the dark. I was camped at BR 8, and was directly affected, and did speak with rangers.

Sorry if I post too much for you. I TRY to keep my contributions positive.....


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## lmyers

Miller Time said:


> It seems you have nothing but opinions on the Buzz. You must respond to EVERY thread, especially those on anything involved in your river valley.


Why is it a problem for me to respond to most threads involving the Ark? I attend between 10-12 hrs of meetings a month regarding resource management and recreation and generally have pretty good information. The number of private messages I get asking for specific advice about the Ark lends itself to my belief that most of those posts are appreciated.

BTW for anyone interested the next AHRA Citizens Task Force meeting is the 22nd in the basement at the Bank of the West in Salida at 9:30.


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## twmartin

Here's a new Angle to this thread.

Why isn't the State of Colorado exercising it's concurrent jurisdiction and prosecuting Huff for Second Degree Arson.

18-4-103: Second Degree Arson: A person who knowingly ... by the use of any explosive damages or destroys or causes to be damaged or destroyed, any property of another...

Second Degree Arson is a class 4 felony if the damage is over $100.00.

Furthermore, why isn't the Grand County DA prosecuting any and all of the trip members who may have encouraged Huff's behavior as complicitors.

18-1-603 Complicity: A person is legally accountable as principal for the behavior of another constituting a criminal offense if, with the intent to promote or facilitate the commission of the offense, he or she aids, abets, advises or encourages...

Certainly food for thought!


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## bonzola

Miller Time said:


> I like how a certain moderator on this thread is making assumptions as if he was on the trip. I believe this is rude content and has no social value.Did you file the police report; talk to anyone on the trip?
> 
> Moderator: someone who leads a discussion in a group and tells each person when to speak.
> 
> It seems you have nothing but opinions on the Buzz. You must respond to EVERY thread, especially those on anything involved in your river valley.
> 
> Is it impossible to believe the employees own their gear and happen to be recreating together on a weekend?
> 
> I'm anticipating my 'ban for life' email sometime soon from the Buzz suppression group. And no - I do not live in Breckinridge.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Mountain Buzz


👍


Sent from my iPhone using Mountain Buzz


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## soggy_tortillas

*Fucking crybabies.*

Gotta say... coupla you are being really douchey about this one.
This is all a bunch of speculation based on the article referenced. It DOES say Huff was with coworkers in the article. It may or may not have been a company sponsored trip, but he was indeed with coworkers. The FACT that the sources of information are not named in the article, leads me to believe that there is indeed a lot more to the story. Time will tell.
Guess I'm wondering why you guys are so quick to assume that it WASN'T a company sponsored trip, and attack others when they consider other possible scenarios. 

Get over your shit with the moderators, it was funny for a while but for feck's sake get over it. Fuggin babies.
I can't help but wonder that if this were proposed by anyone other than a moderator if you guys would still react the way that you are.... I guess moderators aren't people? Their opinions are no longer valid because they're moderators?
I get it. I like talking shit too (when appropriate)... but seriously, get over it. Or you know, maybe call your mom to cry about it, I'm sure she'll give two shits.

"I like how a certain moderator on this thread is making assumptions as if he was on the trip. I believe this is rude content and has no social value.Did you file the police report; talk to anyone on the trip? 

WERE YOU ON THE RIVER THAT NIGHT??? Did you file a police report or talk to anyone on the trip?

It seems you have nothing but opinions on the Buzz. You must respond to EVERY thread, especially those on anything involved in your river valley."
HMMMMMMMMMMM.... NOT SURE RUBY HORSETHIEF IS IN THE ARK VALLEY, but congratulations for being an idiot. Answering threads in regards to your backyard run, and runs that you know well, is pretty expected. I think all of us do that.



Maybe instead of jail time or a hefty fine, or god forbid some fucking hard work to help rebuild what they knowingly destroyed, someone should just shove a carbon fiber AT paddle up his ass.


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## daairguy

If anything, I think this group should be banned from permitted rivers. Maybe a 1-2 year(s) suspension for the members of the group and a lifetime ban for the douche with the fireworks.


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## daairguy

* i think group accountability needs to be addressed, imo


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## climbdenali

I haven't read through the Ruby permits, but most other permits that I've ever held have stated that the permit holder is responsible for ensuring that trip members don't break any rules, and that they're responsible.

I've been the permit holder on rowdy trips, to the point that I was the douche for forcing the bad behavior to stop by hiding things. Trips like that made me nervous enough to not invite some of those folks on trips that I held the permit for again, even though I've been on trips with some of them since, though not as the permit holder. I'm not willing to take on the *legal* responsibility.

I think it's perfectly reasonable to hold both the bad actor and the permit holder responsible. Holding everyone else responsible may not be reasonable unless they encouraged, or the like.


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## Rich

Just saw on the news that the owner or Grand Vacations (Ryan's employer) died on a trip to Nepal for earthquake rebuild.


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## BreckBoater

Breckenridge Grand Vacations owner dies while on tour of Nepal | SummitDaily.com


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## Randaddy

Breckenridge Grand Vacations owner dies while on tour of Nepal - The Denver Post

Not the best year for Breck Grand Vacations...


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## Randaddy

Maybe I should have read the last few posts before posting myself...


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## SKeen

soggy_tortillas said:


> Maybe instead of jail time or a hefty fine, or god forbid some fucking hard work to help rebuild what they knowingly destroyed, someone should just shove a carbon fiber AT paddle up his ass.


Precisely. Since its an AT it will break, causing twice the pain.


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## Jensjustduckie

soggy_tortillas said:


> Get over your shit with the moderators, it was funny for a while but for feck's sake get over it. Fuggin babies.
> I can't help but wonder that if this were proposed by anyone other than a moderator if you guys would still react the way that you are.... I guess moderators aren't people? Their opinions are no longer valid because they're moderators?
> I get it. I like talking shit too (when appropriate)... but seriously, get over it. Or you know, maybe call your mom to cry about it, I'm sure she'll give two shits.
> 
> "I like how a certain moderator on this thread is making assumptions as if he was on the trip. I believe this is rude content and has no social value.Did you file the police report; talk to anyone on the trip?
> 
> WERE YOU ON THE RIVER THAT NIGHT??? Did you file a police report or talk to anyone on the trip?


Uhh, actually the moderator WAS ON THE RIVER THAT NIGHT!!!!!!

Soooo.... there. Tell 'em that!

http://www.mountainbuzz.com/forums/f14/dog-island-burned-down-59094.html


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## soggy_tortillas

It seems it's easier for some to private message others in regards to this thread. If your facts are solid, please feel free to post them here, rather than to send me cryptic messages about how meaningful your life is, and why there's justification in your being a douche.


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## BreckBoater

^^^

DO TELL! Or, better yet.......fwd the msg to the Mesa County Sherriff's Office! 

I know that someone was ticketed for this mishap, but hearing the 1st hand account from Lmyers that they tried to slip out under the cover of darkness should equal "BANNED FOR LIFE" for ALL persons that were on that trip, as they all became an Accessory to the Crime when they all launched from Dog Island in the Pre-Dawn hours.

If it were one of my Co-Workers that did this and I was TL, I would have waited at the Scene of the Crime, and Cooperated fully w/ the Sherriff/BLM Officers when they arrived.


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