# Selway High Water



## paulk (Apr 24, 2006)

For years I thought the Selway was a myth, but have an opportunity to finally go May 25. Could be YUUUGE. What should we expect?


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## duct tape (Aug 25, 2009)

Assuming the pass has beeen plowed (or you snow shuttle), the latest Paradise gauge read is only 2.4', but that's a few days ago and reads are off line until May 12. Clearwater basin snowpack is now 118% with a cool wet April. May 25 will prob be big but I'm guessing peak will be a couple of weeks later. Who knows? A lot depends on the next two weeks and it looks like a short term warm up for Darby, Salmon, and Kooskia.


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## ric (Apr 12, 2004)

*Selway survival run...*

Ran two different years,mostly yakers both trips, above flood stage, 6' plus, ranger came by camp advising us not to go.... NOT, we went, had two wrapped rafts first 6 miles, kayakers had to draw straws that night in camp, oars persons did not want any more of it... both years a death in Ladle, not a great place to chase swimmers, scouting double drop at 10k, standing right next to river the standing waves 20ft away were over our heads, and water bookin it down the canyon, go with confident friends, have fun, check out the Harlequin ducks nesting in the cascading side creeks, very cool bird !


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## riverrafter (Mar 5, 2014)

One of my favorite rivers, first time I ran it levels were optimal. Below Ladle / Little Niagara it was read & run class III - IV. Tight canyon so no place to stop. Second time was a high water run ( can't remember how high ), rapids were all cooking big time and below Ladle / Little Niagara it was read & run class IV - V. I put two paddlers up front in my raft and went for it. Big waves, big holes, no flips but God help a swimmer cuz they're in for a long, cold swim. Solid group of boaters with Grand Canyon experience. Love that river, go with preparation.


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## mcoper8901 (Mar 28, 2011)

Pretty mellow for kayakers, but rafters better be on point/have prior selway experience imo


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## kayakfreakus (Mar 3, 2006)

I got some good feedback on my thread back in 2014:

http://www.mountainbuzz.com/forums/f41/selway-flows-and-info-51574.html

Not sure I would go with "mellow" for kayakers at high water, but they do have an easier time and can pick and choose. The lack of eddies at high water in addition to the whitewater do make it consequential. My motto was duck, dodge, and roll cause that shit was big but try to keep the respect and realize I am no high water hero.

According to Paradise Earl we have somewhere between 5.1 and 5.5 - the gauge was washed out by high water before we launched. Ours was a mixed trip - rafts, cats, kayaks and we could have done it in two days if we knew the river. Kayak trips only do one day descents if they know the river as I understand it. How you approach the river depends on the crafts, so maybe expand on that to get better replies.

Never spent a layover day scouting downstream ~6 miles from river view to fairly high above the river for an upcoming canyon. Then spent the rest of the night trying to memorize lines and identifiable features. Perspective from the scout and the river were not as close as I had hoped. Never seen an 18 foot cat get worked and flipped like that before, don't relax until after wolf creek. Miles fly by and can be interesting gauging where you are at, when the guide book says "Large holes, waves, and boulders - choose your route wisely" for a lot of the rapids it adds more spice.

Two quotes I had new respect for after that trip - 

"You can't get into whitewater heaven til' you've run the Selway over five feet on the Paradise gauge.."
- anon

"I do not remember any of the lines on the Selway, all I remember is you better make your line work"
-Harvey


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## idaho_h2o (May 5, 2005)

With the weather we've been having it's hard to imagine it peaking until early to mid June this year. Crystal ball says about 5ish ft on that date.

The only high water trips I've done were 5.5 and somewhere around 10 (peaked around 35k).

Don't remember much about 5.5 other than big and fun, although I know plenty of good boaters who've had carnage at those flows in round boats. I'd guess about 6.5 is where I would start thinking real hard about taking a loaded raft. 

35k was a pretty incredible. Probably some of the biggest features I've ever seen on a river, marching eddy fences, waves surging out of nowhere, very chaotic. If you have problems in DD or Ladle it could easily lead to a fatality. About 4 hours on the water in lightly loaded cats, so about 12 mph overall, significantly faster in Moose Juice.


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## whip (Oct 23, 2003)

Be afraid...very afraid!


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## paulk (Apr 24, 2006)

Thanks for all of the replies. I'll be in a kayak with a few others, but we will likely have 1-2 cats along with us. 

Any comparison of other runs out there? I could be way off, but it seems like if you took all of the big ones in the grand and stacked them, the selway is what you would get? 

Not a ton of high water idaho experience, but been on the lochsa at medium ish (I think 5-6 ft) and lower 5 on the NF payette at around 1800. In Colorado, poudre at 6 feet, cc @ 2k. Any of these sound similar? (obviously not even close to the amount of water) 

Mostly stoked, but I like to make sure before committing that far into the wild.


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## barry hatch (Mar 26, 2006)

*What to expect running the Selway*

The Selway is alot like the Lochsa. The difference is that you have all your camp and river gear on the boat with you. And most importantly you are not by any highway, and there is only 1 launch per day so your not likely see other parties. You'll only have yourselves for help if things go south.
If your in a yak or cat and can self rescue, that helps a lot. It's particularly important that gear and passenger carrying rafts be piloted by very competent rowers. Flipped rafts are hard to deal with, so the group needs to stay close enough for immediate coordinated help.
Water temp 47 to 50 degrees.
Take time to scout all class IV. And it's best to scout from above Double Drop down to Miranda Jane in one stop so your not wearing yourselves out landing repeatedly while trying to run the moose juice. It seems best to get into a rhythm and just knock it out in one shot. More enjoyable too. 
It's maybe my favorite stretch of river. Happy Boating!


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## teletumbler (Jun 2, 2005)

duct tape said:


> Assuming the pass has beeen plowed (or you snow shuttle), the latest Paradise gauge read is only 2.4', but that's a few days ago and reads are off line until May 12. Clearwater basin snowpack is now 118% with a cool wet April. May 25 will prob be big but I'm guessing peak will be a couple of weeks later. Who knows? A lot depends on the next two weeks and it looks like a short term warm up for Darby, Salmon, and Kooskia.


Are the Paradise gauge readings posted somewhere? All my searching has found nothing for extrapolation from Lowell.

Thanks,


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## kayakfreakus (Mar 3, 2006)

teletumbler said:


> Are the Paradise gauge readings posted somewhere? All my searching has found nothing for extrapolation from Lowell.
> 
> Thanks,


Found this data set:

http://www.1river.org/docs/Selway River Gauge Info.pdf

And this article about it:

Pat's Selway River Flow Comparison - Lowell vs. Paradise

I thought I was checking a different way when we went but cannot find that info or made it up in my mind.


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## teletumbler (Jun 2, 2005)

Yeah, I found those too, but where do they get the readings for Paradise? Is the a number to call into, does the ranger send them out on an email distribution list, post them to a blog?

Duct tape said the 2.4 reading was a couple days old and the readings are offline until May 12. What I want is where can I find them online starting May 12?

I'll PM duct tape.


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## carvedog (May 11, 2005)

I thought the Paradise gauge is usually read on site and radioed in. 17K at the bottom is starting to get pretty big. Something like 5.5 to 6.5 but all depends on if it's coming down Moose Creek or the upper headwaters. 

I have seen the launch on clear waters and nice flows and arrived at Moose to brown muddy and cranking coming down the creek. So who knows? 

The lowest I have done it was 3.7, the highest was about where it is now. I personally would go in a round boat up to around 20K and would love to see that. The last time at 10 to 12K at Lowell we had four flips, two were cats and two were rafts. I actually thought the higher flow was easier ( but much faster) in some ways. Ham got really huge and nearly surprised me. Good luck, hope you make it.


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## BrianK (Feb 3, 2005)

Hey Paul - throw some beer in the back of your kayak, drive to the put in, paddle to the takeout and don't swim on the way down. It's not that hard.


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## duct tape (Aug 25, 2009)

Replied by PM also

They are posted in the Selway readings link in the upper right corner of this site:

https://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/bitterroot/home/?cid=STELPRDB5262645 

Nancy yesterday said they'll be back online ? Tomorrow. She told me yesterday's reading was something like either 4.5 or 5.5 Can't exactly recall but it's going up with warm weather. Hope you early floaters save us enough water for July 10

Jon


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## duct tape (Aug 25, 2009)

Looking at Jerry's post, I'm not really sure what level or what day she told me. I wasn't paying close enough attention. Am clear it's gone up quickly and they hope to have online postings back up in a day or two. 

Jon


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## duct tape (Aug 25, 2009)

We can have a pool. I'll take 5.4 for May 13.


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## raftus (Jul 20, 2005)

Have any of you rowed a round boat on the Selway above 6 or 7 ft? Thoughts? Advice?

I have a 14' x 7' wide Hyside that I've taken down most of the multi-day trips in the west (including the Selway at low-medium flows). We have a June 10th launch and I'm concerned about being under gunned. I have experience guiding class V - both rowing and paddling on low and high volume rivers (the Nenana in AK at about 28,000 cfs being the biggest other than the paddle out of the Middle Fork). The description of running the Moose Juice section at high flows makes it sound like the extra security of a larger boat might be pretty valuable. Thoughts?


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## carvedog (May 11, 2005)

raftus said:


> Have any of you rowed a round boat on the Selway above 6 or 7 ft? Thoughts? Advice?
> 
> I have a 14' x 7' wide Hyside that I've taken down most of the multi-day trips in the west (including the Selway at low-medium flows). We have a June 10th launch and I'm concerned about being under gunned. I have experience guiding class V - both rowing and paddling on low and high volume rivers (the Nenana in AK at about 28,000 cfs being the biggest other than the paddle out of the Middle Fork). The description of running the Moose Juice section at high flows makes it sound like the extra security of a larger boat might be pretty valuable. Thoughts?


At least a couple of the trips I have done were at six feet or a little higher. 

Have you looked at this?

https://www.wcc.nrcs.usda.gov/ftpref/states/id/webftp/snow-stream/selway_halfmelt.gif

I don't think you will have over six feet by June 10. If I had to bet I think you will have between 10 and 13K at Lowell and 4-5 on the Paradise gauge. Just pulling numbers out of my ass but I am thinking I will be close. 

We had a couple of guys on those trips running 14s who didn't seem to have any more trouble than I did. I run a 17 foot Maravia. 

I think you will be fine in your boat with your experience. Can I go?


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## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

barry hatch said:


> The Selway is alot like the Lochsa. The difference is that you have all your camp and river gear on the boat with you. And most importantly you are not by any highway, and there is only 1 launch per day so your not likely see other parties. You'll only have yourselves for help if things go south.


I recommend to people that it is a step up from the Lochsa, even a step up from the upper Lochsa. Or perhaps add 5K to the Selway flow for a more similar Lochsa feel.


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## snow hole (Dec 7, 2012)

*moose juice*

here is a video i took of the selway at 4.5. My favorite river!! in the moose juice section the rapids become continuous. bring a sat phone and get martys number at three rivers. If you flip in moose juice you can call them and they will wait at the take out and grab your gear before it goes over selway falls. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SucCu_qCj2U


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