# Seat or No Seat - That Is the Question?



## IDriverRunner (Aug 18, 2015)

A seat all comes down to personal preference. I use a seat and really like, and that could be because I have always had a seat since I started boating. I like the locked in feel, and the comfort, that a seat provides. Out of the thousands of miles I've floated I have never wished that I didn't have a seat.


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## Wallrat (Jan 19, 2021)

Seat. Definitely. You can build a stronger lower-body triangle and be locked-in better with a seat. Imho that allows you to generate more power on the oars. Others, no doubt, will say that is completely wrong.


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## craven_morhead (Feb 20, 2007)

This is a topic that has been beat to death on this site - do some digging for past forums. The arguments for a seat are generally comfort and feeling locked in and, for mesh seats, a drier butt. The arguments against are largely focused on a lower center of gravity and less faffing about if you want to get to the drybox or cooler you're sitting on.

I'm on Team Seat.


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## ShouldBeFloating (Jan 11, 2022)

craven_morhead said:


> This is a topic that has been beat to death on this site - do some digging for past forums. The arguments for a seat are generally comfort and feeling locked in and, for mesh seats, a drier butt. The arguments against are largely focused on a lower center of gravity and less faffing about if you want to get to the drybox or cooler you're sitting on.
> 
> I'm on Team Seat.


I like to rekindle kicking the dead horse. I'll checknout some past threads. Thanks!


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## cnalder (Jul 7, 2016)

I started on a dry box/cooler but now use a NRS flip seat. If I was doing river sections purely for the whitewater, I’d go seatless, just feels better lower. For most rivers the seat is awesome and comfy and let’s me lazily oar while lounging. If you have a small or narrow boat, I’d probably go seatless also. It felt high on the first trip but I got used to it. I have aire 156.


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## Roseldo (Aug 27, 2020)

I'm on team "Row from the Dry Box," but I would say that it's very much personal preference (and also descended from laziness and cheapness) and likely based on rowing style. If you like a seat...keep rocking it.


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## Wallrat (Jan 19, 2021)

craven_morhead said:


> This is a topic that has been beat to death on this site - do some digging for past forums. The arguments for a seat are generally comfort and feeling locked in and, for mesh seats, a drier butt. The arguments against are largely focused on a lower center of gravity and less faffing about if you want to get to the drybox or cooler you're sitting on.
> 
> I'm on Team Seat.


Not to nit-pick, but the seats on all my catboats (5), are much lower than if I were sitting on a cooler or drybox. I have trouble seeing how it could be otherwise.
The top of the seat mount varies from less than an inch above the frame, to an inch below. Every cooler and drybox I’ve seen are much higher.


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## Roseldo (Aug 27, 2020)

Wallrat said:


> Not to nit-pick, but the seats on all my catboats (5), are much lower than if I were sitting on a cooler or drybox. I have trouble seeing how it could be otherwise.
> The top of the seat mount varies from less than an inch above the frame, to an inch below. Every cooler and drybox I’ve seen are much higher.


He may be discussing the DRE style Captain's Chairs which do seem to sit a bit higher. I do row from a seat on my cat, but from a cooler on my round boat.


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## jgrebe (Jan 16, 2010)

cnalder said:


> I started on a dry box/cooler but now use a NRS flip seat. If I was doing river sections purely for the whitewater, I’d go seatless, just feels better lower. For most rivers the seat is awesome and comfy and let’s me lazily oar while lounging. If you have a small or narrow boat, I’d probably go seatless also. It felt high on the first trip but I got used to it. I have aire 156.


Tough to do this sitting on a dry box


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## Rick A (Apr 15, 2016)

I have a seat I use with a day frame or stern frame but row from a hatch cover over a drop bag or ammo cans for multiple day.


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## BenSlaughter (Jun 16, 2017)

I row from my drybox. Use the gear pile as a back rest. If I'm doing a day float and wanna be able to recline, I strap down one of those fold up stadium seats to lean against.


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## Whitewater Worthy Equip (Dec 11, 2013)

Day frame= seat. Long trip= no seat. Free advise is worth just that. Dealers choice.


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## Conundrum (Aug 23, 2004)

If you get a seat, remember to drain your cooler.


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## caverdan (Aug 27, 2004)

Whitewater Worthy Equip said:


> Day frame= seat. Long trip= no seat. Free advise is worth just that. Dealers choice.


I'm in the same boat. My day frames have seats and my gear frame has a dry box. I like sitting on a paco pad and building a back rest out of dunnage.


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## MountainVisions (Jan 6, 2017)

For sport boats a seat. For gear boats no. Different paddling styles and uses.


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## ShouldBeFloating (Jan 11, 2022)

This has been a great thread! Lot's of things to think about. 

Does anyone run a front seat? My wife is insisting a long trip frame has a seat in the front for her. I also have 2 boys (12yrs and 9yrs). How do people situate a raft on longer trips with 4 people? FYI: This is a 16ft raft, so not small by choice. 

Thanks!


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## caverdan (Aug 27, 2004)

Get her a crazy creek style chair and she can sit wherever she wants.


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## Roseldo (Aug 27, 2020)

caverdan said:


> Get her a crazy creek style chair and she can sit wherever she wants.


100% Crazy creek on top of a paco pad is perfect. If you only have one person up front, they can sit facing sideways, which is a super comfortable way to do it.


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## BenSlaughter (Jun 16, 2017)

∆∆ 
What those guys said.
Also, that's the style seat I use on top of my drybox, when I don't have a gear pile to lean on. 
I have 1" of cross linked polyethylene glued down for padding on both boxes, with an additional 2" glued 'around' my seat for some lateral stability, and extra deep beer holder cut outs. 😎


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## MR. ED (Jan 21, 2008)

I found a used seat mounted on a crossbar locally that fit my boat. I have never used it though. Nice to have options. You're going to spend a lot of money anyways, might as well spend a little more!


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

IMHO on long trips, sitting on a paco pad is luxury. You can sit forward/backwards, sideways, lie down, etc.
PVC pad over the front hatch for passengers, pvc pad over the drybox for me.

I have a seat on my day frames where carrying a paco is unnecessary. I also like to be a little more "locked in" for day runs. For multidays, me being "locked in" means little in relation to the huge mass of gear in my boat. If I flip, it's a bad line and not because my butt wasn't centered.


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## Andy H. (Oct 13, 2003)

Probably depends on what kind of water you'll be running and what you'll be doing. I like having a seat because it gives me something solid to brace against if I'm in rocking water. Also if I'm playing on a surf spot a seat's nice to have. (DRE high-back seat)

Then again, I've never rowed for any extended time without one, so what do I know?


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## Smoregon (Aug 14, 2017)

Sitting directly on your cooler or drybox while rowing is unwise unless you are running pins and clips.


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## Rick A (Apr 15, 2016)

Smoregon said:


> Sitting directly on your cooler or drybox while rowing is unwise unless you are running pins and clips.


Not your preference understandable, but to claim it's unwise is pushing it. Plenty of folks do, and they can stay in the boat just fine. Of 6 rafts on my last Grand trip none had a seat but the 2 cats did row from seats.


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## IDriverRunner (Aug 18, 2015)

Rick A said:


> Not your preference understandable, but to claim it's unwise is pushing it.


100% 
It really just boils down to personal preference. Some prefer seat, some don't. It really is as simple as that.


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## Andy H. (Oct 13, 2003)

Rick A said:


> Not your preference understandable, but to claim it's unwise is pushing it. Plenty of folks do, and they can stay in the boat just fine. Of 6 rafts on my last Grand trip none had a seat but the 2 cats did row from seats.


I think he meant to make that post in SnarkFont (TM).


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## cadster (May 1, 2005)

Anyone use an Aire kayak seat as a rower's seat? Deluxe Kayak Seat - AIRE Rafts


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## peernisse (Jun 1, 2011)

ShouldBeFloating said:


> In the market for a new raft frame. Will be going on 16ft raft. Do I want one with a tractor seat or not? I've used my drift boat (has low tractor seat) for a couple 2-3 day trips and feel I can get away without one. Though I'd hate to not have it and found out I need it.
> 
> Any thoughts? Pros/cons? Thanks in advance


I think it is personal preference. I have a removable seat that swings over my dry box. I haven’t brought it on a trip in years though. I think because I found it in the way a lot. But, it is removable so at camp I would take it off to clear the cockpit area . Plus I guess I have used it to sit in at camp too… I row on my paco pad on my dry box nowadays. I don’t have a backrest bc I don’t rig a big pile of stuff in the stern, I rig on my frame, maybe some of the more incidental stuff goes in the stern but no big high gear pile like some people do it. Anyway, try both and see what you like. Now, a hard floor though, that is cockpit stylin’ I would not want to do without…


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## peernisse (Jun 1, 2011)

cadster said:


> Anyone use an Aire kayak seat as a rower's seat? Deluxe Kayak Seat - AIRE Rafts


Haha. I have definitely seen that before. Looks pretty pimp.


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## mountain boy (Aug 20, 2021)

ShouldBeFloating said:


> In the market for a new raft frame. Will be going on 16ft raft. Do I want one with a tractor seat or not? I've used my drift boat (has low tractor seat) for a couple 2-3 day trips and feel I can get away without one. Though I'd hate to not have it and found out I need it.
> 
> Any thoughts? Pros/cons? Thanks in advance


When my NRS seat started rotting away I went to no seat, just a 1960's motorboat pad on my box. A 2" thick pad with a loop strap on each side. What i like about having no seat-back is that if you are in a PLF moment (pull like f#ck) you can put more into it without the seat stopping full extension. About 10 years later I rowed somebody elses's boat and hated the seat w/back. That NRS seat died on me 25 years ago and I haven't missed it once. I can't remember what they are called but somebody used to build a seat that folded w/3 pads, no legs, called...Wind River?...anyone...anyone...


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## Pinchecharlie (Jul 27, 2017)

Are you older? Skinny and fat kinda at the same time? Well then buy a seat cause man I tell ya I rowed off my dry box pad for one damn day on a busy little creek and rubbed a damn hole in my arse bone that seriously would not heal and was a real wound and pain in my arse for weeks. So if "real men" like having raspberries on their ass then by all means . Yes a paco would solve that but they are unwieldy at times and squishy at times too! Be "that guy" with the hyper controlled cockpit! Custom captains boxes with sat phone at arms length,, cushy seat with TWO drink holder, coolio map display and custom footbar with massage knobbies! Through ALOT of money at it so it's perfect!!! Ahh... your ass will thank you and you'll be able to do other fun stuff like set-up and break down camp ...BY YOURSELF!!! Just sayn...lol


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## mountain boy (Aug 20, 2021)

Pinchecharlie said:


> Are you older? Skinny and fat kinda at the same time? Well then buy a seat cause man I tell ya I rowed off my dry box pad for one damn day on a busy little creek and rubbed a damn hole in my arse bone that seriously would not heal and was a real wound and pain in my arse for weeks. So if "real men" like having raspberries on their ass then by all means . Yes a paco would solve that but they are unwieldy at times and squishy at times too! Be "that guy" with the hyper controlled cockpit! Custom captains boxes with sat phone at arms length,, cushy seat with TWO drink holder, coolio map display and custom footbar with massage knobbies! Through ALOT of money at it so it's perfect!!! Ahh... your ass will thank you and you'll be able to do other fun stuff like set-up and break down camp ...BY YOURSELF!!! Just sayn...lol


Use a motor boat cushion. Strip yr boat down, eliminate excess gear and then build it back up, trust me, I'm a gear hog.. I am used to no seat and I like it, I use a good pad. You can always rig the big mound behind you as a seat back, even on a cat. Been soloing with my dogs for 30 years I already have the 2 cup holders going, one big enough for my beer and huggy and one deeper, slotted for the handle for my coffee cup, that first couple of hours after morning launch coffee tastes damn good. No sat phone because I ain't out there to solve problems back at home. a big f#cking unbrella so my dog ( the coolest of dogs-a rottie) and I can maintain the cool and the serene silence that you get when cutting behind a big rock and have this outrageous view that only a river trip can give you. I love that silence, I love the sound of small water eddy's, water over rocks and the splash of fish in the dark. I have never found more peace than when being part of the river. 22 day solo's are the meaning of life.


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