# Swimming in Class IV, and V whitewater



## Fallingup (Feb 27, 2010)

You should look into taking a swiftwater rescue course. I am planning on doing this just to have it under my belt. You will be swimming rapids the correct way and using rescue techniques in the course (from what I am told)


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## Id725 (Nov 22, 2003)

Get OUT of the water. NOW.
That's the biggest thing. Don't just sit there and float and wait for somebody to paddle up to you and offer you a grab loop. Don't wait for a rope. Get your butt to shore.
If you're getting maytagged in a bad hole, remember the cannon ball. Ball up, go deep and flush out on the river bed below the hole.


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## cuzin (Oct 4, 2007)

Be in excellent cardiovascular shape. Swimming is WAY more work than kayaking. And you will be able to make your breath last a lot longer in the event you have some extended down time.


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## Flying_Spaghetti_Monster (Jun 3, 2010)

Fallingup said:


> You should look into taking a swiftwater rescue course. I am planning on doing this just to have it under my belt. You will be swimming rapids the correct way and using rescue techniques in the course (from what I am told)


Yeah that is first thing on my list for next season.


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## Don (Oct 16, 2003)

*Swim whiteboy swim!*

Go Cheerleaderon it. B> Aggresive B>E> Aggressive.

Don't roll over onto your back and count your toes like they tell people to do on raft trips. Get you head to the surface. Spot your exit route, roll over onto your belly and swim like you were in your kayak. Have a plan before you run the rapid. Scout options and have a plan A, B, C, & D before snapping your skirt on and launching.

Once you exit your boat, you only have one job. Get out of the water. 

PS. if you can keep your paddle and boat that would be awesome. But, if they are hindering you, drop'em and get out. Exposure in the water can be for worse than hiking out. Most river drowning come from too much time in the water.


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## gh (Oct 13, 2003)

Don said:


> Go Cheerleaderon it. B> Aggresive B>E> Aggressive.
> 
> Don't roll over onto your back and count your toes like they tell people to do on raft trips. Get you head to the surface. Spot your exit route, roll over onto your belly and swim like you were in your kayak. Have a plan before you run the rapid. Scout options and have a plan A, B, C, & D before snapping your skirt on and launching.
> 
> ...


Thats funny, I think I get the reference. We are crashing, we we are crashing. 
Good advice here. As I was told in SWR which stuck with me. Find somewhere you want to be and then go there, now.


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## dfindley11 (Sep 11, 2009)

I started using this technique as a commercial raft guide when i started guiding class V. With enough people/trips down the river, people will fall out of the boat (or swim out of a kayak), without fail. Better to be prepared than to believe that it won't happen.
Whenever I scout rapids, first I pick a raft/kayak line, then I pick a swim line. When scouting for a swim I look at features and assess which ones i'm willing to send myself through and which ones i'm not. I then choose a line that gets me away from that ONE super nasty feature. Then I make the line as simple as possible (ideally one direction or the other - it is far too hard to make multiple moves while swimming, just not mobile enough). If that swim line takes me through a couple of holes, oh well, it will keep me away from the undercut rock, boxed in hole, etc.
Then I SWIM. Not just casual marco polo swim. I'm talking ate my box of wheaties, got a pep talk from Al Pacino in "Any Given Sunday", and am trying to get away from my crazy ex-girlfriend swim.


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## Kendrick (Jul 8, 2010)

I've heard of people using their paddle to help them swim better. I found attempting this to be really awkward. Is that advisable, to practice using your paddle to swim or is it a lost cause, in your opinion?


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## Ken Vanatta (May 29, 2004)

A swim strategy depends on what kind of water you are in. 

If it's a big volume/wide river scenerio you do not let go of your boat for nothing. It is your floatation and you are not going to be getting out of the water quickly. It is best to hold the grab loop and paddle in one hand and side swim with the other hand ... always jerking the boat forward with the one hand to allow you to gain ground with the swim stroke by the other. Even then, it is best to identify the target down stream that the current will take you towards and time your aggressive effort to get you to the targeted eddy at the correct time. Work with the river. Sometimes that may mean not exerting much effort until the time demands it. Just keep ahold of the boat, relax, and wait for the time to act.

In technical water, as others indicated, it is most helpful to have scouted and know what plan A, B, C, and a swim plan may be. In a creek run it is likely that you sprint swim to the nearest shore. Sometimes, though, you have to make it to the side of an obstical or to a channel and target the next inviting eddy. Although, still trying to exit the water as quickly as possible. I would also add that a technical river can sometimes pin a person to the bottom and require awareness to know that you have to pull yourself along the rocky bottom and out the side of the hydraulic (sometimes the bank or eddy is right there). Often, whether upside down in your boat or out of it, you have got to open your eyes and try to observe what obstacle you might be pressed against and claw your way around and away of it. With probably one exception, it is generally best to open our eyes and try to evaluate before making a decision to pull the skirt.


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## Favre (Nov 17, 2010)

In my opinion, swimming difficult whitewater is a mix of three things.
1) Aggressive, proactive swimming generally towards shore, an eddy, or the safest spot for you to immediately be. This is almost ALWAYS what you should be doing should you find yourself in the drink. Turn onto your stomach, evaluate where you, decide what the best place for you to swim to is, and do a crawl (or freestyle) stroke towards your destination.
2) Whitewater swim position. This should only be done in places where the river is quite shallow or where you are approaching rocks or a small drop, where swimming on your stomach would risk hurting your limbs or worse. Whitewater swim position will not get to you safety in class 5, it will only protect your body.
3) Balled up, arms wrap around your shins might be considered over rocky drops. The only reason I ever say this is a legendary paddler died on my home river where he went over a drop feet first and he had some kind of body entrapment (at least that's how I understand it .) Being balled up might prevent your lower body and upper body going different directions in the mank.

I have heard using the paddle helps, but I have not found a way to swim with it nearly as effectively as abandoning my paddle and going for it.

I agree that when scouting rapids it's important to scout for the swim as well. Also, nothing can prepare you more than distance swimming at a pool. In high school, I was a competitive swimmer and could swim a mile or more without stopping. Ten years later, I'm still a good swimmer and paddler, but I become exhausted after about 100 yards. Guess I should get back in the pool before next spring!


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## leif (Jul 11, 2009)

*Why so few responses?*

Wow, it's been like 2 hours already and there are only about 10 or so responses. What's going on? I figured for sure that every yahoo out there (especially class IV paddlers that don't actually run class V) would have an opinion on this! Even rafters will probably chime in, because they swim all the time if they try hard water. Well, I can't resist adding my own two cents: is it really so bad to hold on to your paddle? Obviously if it's endangering you, ditch it, but don't panic, be reasonable. 

Maybe it's slow because the offseason is just around the corner.


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## [email protected] (Apr 26, 2006)

Ken Vanatta said:


> A swim strategy depends on what kind of water you are in.
> 
> If it's a big volume/wide river scenerio you do not let go of your boat for nothing. It is your floatation and you are not going to be getting out of the water quickly. It is best to hold the grab loop and paddle in one hand and side swim with the other hand ... always jerking the boat forward with the one hand to allow you to gain ground with the swim stroke by the other. Even then, it is best to identify the target down stream that the current will take you towards and time your aggressive effort to get you to the targeted eddy at the correct time. Work with the river. Sometimes that may mean not exerting much effort until the time demands it. Just keep ahold of the boat, relax, and wait for the time to act.
> 
> In technical water, as others indicated, it is most helpful to have scouted and know what plan A, B, C, and a swim plan may be. In a creek run it is likely that you sprint swim to the nearest shore. Sometimes, though, you have to make it to the side of an obstical or to a channel and target the next inviting eddy. Although, still trying to exit the water as quickly as possible. I would also add that a technical river can sometimes pin a person to the bottom and require awareness to know that you have to pull yourself along the rocky bottom and out the side of the hydraulic (sometimes the bank or eddy is right there). Often, whether upside down in your boat or out of it, you have got to open your eyes and try to observe what obstacle you might be pressed against and claw your way around and away of it. With probably one exception, it is generally best to open our eyes and try to evaluate before making a decision to pull the skirt.


I have to disagree with you on the big water stuff, in big water that boat is gonna go for miles best not to swim for miles. 
I always think of swimming as being aggressive when you need to be and being relaxed when you need to be. For example if you get stuck in some huge ledge hole you have to realize that you could be underwater for 20-30 seconds and no amount of fighting is gonna change that, just relax and go with the flow. But the second you get out assess are there eddies you can make it to? if yes then swim your ass off.
Another thing is that there are very few times when you should be holding on in a hole ride until you are absolutely done (maybe if there is a sieve/log portage just downstream) rather fight until you have given a reasonable effort to get out but still have enough for what the swim might entail.
And don't worry you will get enough practice, everyone I have met who paddles class 5 swims class 5 even that sicko sean lee.


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## brandob9 (Jun 13, 2010)

Swimming with your paddle requires lots of concentration, which I can assure you from experience you will be missing. You will generally have lots of side to side motion available, but hitting eddies is really hard. One trick is to dive for the upstream eddy line like you would the nose of your boat. Another is to roll with your arms extended along your long axis over the eddy fence. 

It's a nasty game of offence and defense in all. Hit the first eddy you can. Choose your move. Think of where the current is going to take you. Keep your feet off the bottom - a foot entrapment will kill you here. Most of all, stay calm, keep thinking and keep breathing when you can. 

Staying calm probably kept me alive this Feb. when I swam the Green Wall on the Illinois at 6,000 CFS from top to bottom. I knew where I needed to be from my scout, and what was coming. It sucked, and the thought of flush drowning crossed my mind, but I stuck with my plan and came out fine. I think I got dunked five times on my way down.


_For scale, the boulder in the middle left of the photo is about 6' out of the water_


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## Kyle K (Dec 17, 2008)

Swimming with a paddle: I've done it and it works, but it uses a_ lot_ of energy. I used this technique successfully to cross a river back to my boat (yeah, I swam) just above a long class V. Use an aggressive crawl style with the paddle in front, heading where you want to go. Make sure and kick your legs too. As noted, it will wear you out quickly. Don't expect to keep it up more than a dozen strokes or so. I think of it like NO2 on a car; only use it when you need to get somewhere _now_. 

Not using the paddle, I think of swimming two ways, as follows:

Defensive posture; used when simply trying to survive immediate circumstances:
On your back, feet forward, together and facing downstream (feet that is). Use your arms like oars to move laterelly across the river. You can see downstream quite well this way too. Make sure and keep your butt up so you don't crack your tailbone. 

Offensive posture: Once your are out of immediate danger swim _aggressively_ towards your goal, be it another boater willing to offer assistance, an eddy, the shore or even a safe rock you can crawl up on and re-assess where to go next. I suggest the old fashioned crawl as the most powerful stroke. Swim hard and get where you need to be. 

Crossing eddy lines (including getting out of a pourover type of reversal): It can be difficult for a swimmer to cross an eddyline as the majority of their body is underwater and tends to hit the eddy fence and get rejected, rather than skim over it like a boat. One way to help cross a strong eddy fence is to roll your body as you go over it. Go from a crawl to a back stroke at the moment of crossing, maybe even continuing to spin 360 degrees over and back into a crawl again. I've done this too and it works quite well. 

One more note about eddy lines: Think of your body angle towards the eddy fence just like you would your kayak: Keep the angle very aggressive, maybe even more so than you would in your boat.

Practice! Challenge yourself by swimming a rapid or two. Whitewater parks are great places to work on your technique. If you get bored of doing flat spins in your play boat, set it on shore and jump in for a few minutes. You might gain a new respect for the forces of moving water. It can also be a lot of fun, provided you're warm enough. 

As others have noted, take a Swiftwater or similar course. You can't be too prepared when it comes to class V! If you don't think you need too get certified for your own good, think of it as training to save your buddies instead. Everyone wants to trust their friends and partners when the shit hits the fan. 

Last but not least: Dress appropriately for the immersion factor. I wear a drysuit, even on warm days, if the water is cold or the canyon doesn't let in a lot of sunlight. Immersion in cold water saps your body heat (and strength) exponentially faster than cold air. 

Good luck. I hope you never swim in class V but the odds are you will sometime if you're pushing yourself. Might as well be good at it!


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## Oneriver (Aug 13, 2010)

This reminds me of the legendary running class V and can't roll thread. Mountainbuzz sure seems to be heavy on the swimming technique threads and light on the actual kayaking technique threads. 

When the river is more then a mile wide you aren't really swimming to shore, you're mid stream re-entering your boat with an h-resuce.


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## gh (Oct 13, 2003)

Oneriver said:


> This reminds me of the legendary running class V and can't roll thread. Mountainbuzz sure seems to be heavy on the swimming technique threads and light on the actual kayaking technique threads.
> 
> When the river is more then a mile wide you aren't really swimming to shore, you're mid stream re-entering your boat with an h-resuce.


More than a mile wide eh? If you are talking about the Arkansas river as it meanders through Arkansas, well why would you be swimming there? And why would you be in a kayak and not some power boat with 6 cases of beer, yelling, Hey watch this?


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## Nathan (Aug 7, 2004)

Or maybe a river that's near Fort Smith, NT eh? Like the Slave.


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## dfindley11 (Sep 11, 2009)

One more thought I had. The best technique that I have ever used to swim safely to shore (with all my gear) is to paddle with people who aren't imbeciles. No amount of training or technique can provide as much safety as paddling with competent people who can help you when it counts.

Another bit on the paddle issue. I tend to just throw it like a javelin. If i can get it to shore, awesome. If not, well I just threw it where I intend to go next so better start getting there quickly so I can throw that sucker again as I head to safety.


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## Kendrick (Jul 8, 2010)

Oneriver said:


> This reminds me of the legendary running class V and can't roll thread. Mountainbuzz sure seems to be heavy on the swimming technique threads and light on the actual kayaking technique threads.
> 
> When the river is more then a mile wide you aren't really swimming to shore, you're mid stream re-entering your boat with an h-rescue.


On the same token, I haven't swam in awhile, been paddling Class 3+ to IV- (this is still challenging enough for me at my level), and I have a great roll and brace, but I'm not very good at paddling, committing to lines, reacting to sudden obstructions; like paddlers in front of me who are stuck on rocks; being aggressive, etc. I don't really slow the group down too badly, since I don't swim (except for the occasional train-wreck that wasn't my fault! I swear!), but I often have to yell at myself inside, to wake up and start paddling. Although I'm getting much better at rolling and bracing- so it's hard for me to complain too much. I think my coolest brace was completely taking a super-sloppy line down Waterton, running along a wall side-ways, but just bracing through it. That put a grin on my face. If I could just make stuff like that look like I did it on purpose, I'd be set. There's no substitute for experience when it comes to good paddling, I think. I'm at a point where, I'm like, yeah, I can, roll, I can brace, but can I even freaking paddle? It's too bad I haven't been able to exact my revenge on Foxton yet, though.


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## KSC (Oct 22, 2003)

Fort Smith, NT - I had to look that one up. Swimming, not swimming who cares - I would think freezing to death or getting eaten by a Polar Bear would be the major concerns. In Colorado the concept of a mile wide river is very foreign. In fact the concept of a wide river is very foreign. 

Seems like most of the protracted swims I've seen that could have been avoided would have required more aggressive paddling. Don't forget the often violated "dress for the swim" rule. In class V more than anything I'm not a huge believer in relying on your buddies being able to bail you out of situation no matter how great of boaters they are. 

Yeah, I guess I don't have much to add here, I just want to hear more about living in Fort Smith.


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## stankboat (Mar 30, 2005)

come on buzzards ... 20-something responses and no mention of the Most Important Thing:
BLOW YOUR WHISTLE!!!... over and over and try to get that dang turkey leg gobblin buffoon to save you.


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## [email protected] (Apr 26, 2006)

stankboat said:


> come on buzzards ... 20-something responses and no mention of the Most Important Thing:
> BLOW YOUR WHISTLE!!!... over and over and try to get that dang turkey leg gobblin buffoon to save you.



This is the dumbest thing I have seen in a really long time, blow your whistle while swimming?


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## leif (Jul 11, 2009)

Here's a map of the rapids that are on the slave river near fort smith: 
Slave River rapids - Google Maps
If you swim on the slave, a really effective strategy is to pull your skirt but not get out of your boat (unless you have to). That way, all your gear stays together. Last summer I had to rescue someone who swam and got separated from his boat. I solo paddled a duo out to the island he was on. It was a big pain in the butt.

Also, stankboat, sounds like you 'bout lost your life yesterday.


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## Flying_Spaghetti_Monster (Jun 3, 2010)

Also, stankboat, sounds like you 'bout lost your life yesterday.[/QUOTE]

Yeah that was a funny one Thanks for all the helpful advice. I plan to take a swiftwater rescue course at the beginning of the season, then practice swimming in a controlled environment, and try not to swim when it is not by my own will. I have been stepping it up this past season, and want to continue 
this coming season. I agree with the person that said not to rely on your buddies to save you in class V. I was had a boater tell me when boating class V you are all alone, because there is only so much, people can do to save you in the event of a swim, pin, or entrapment.


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## stankboat (Mar 30, 2005)

TJ ... yer memory is slippin dood. 
Check into the Hall O Fame for reference.


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## [email protected] (Apr 26, 2006)

stankboat said:


> TJ ... yer memory is slippin dood.
> Check into the Hall O Fame for reference.


Who in the hall of fame (I'm guessing your making a reference to charlie walbridge?) advocated blowing your whistle while swimming class 5? I really don't care if someone in the hall of fame said that you should do it, have you ever swam in class 5? That second or two that you would waste expelling air could cost you and in most cases you under water most of the time, how can you blow a whistle underwater? This just doesn't make any logical sense to attempt to blow a whistle when swimming a rapid that could kill you.
I totally advocate a rescuer blowing the whistle to get everyone on the same page but attempting to blow my own whistle when I'm swimming for my life isn't something I will ever try nor would I recommend it to anyone else.


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## [email protected] (Apr 26, 2006)

O I get it now joke, damn I'm slow on that shit, I guess I was trying to start a shit storm. Sorry I never actually read that thread, seemed to fuckin stupid to me.
-Tom


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## Randaddy (Jun 8, 2007)

Oneriver said:


> When the river is more then a mile wide you aren't really swimming to shore, you're mid stream re-entering your boat with an h-resuce.


Is this like the Wobbly-H Rescue? 

Whether you hang on to your paddle is an economic decision. 

Some people swim rapids for sport. 

Keep your feet up.


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## Gary E (Oct 27, 2003)

Swim laps in the pool and like said above, get in good shape, then you will be able to get out of the water asap. Nothing else will help until you feel it for yourself


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## Phil U. (Feb 7, 2009)

Randaddy said:


> Whether you hang on to your paddle is an economic decision.


I never ever let go of my Jimistyk.


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## squeakyboater (Apr 14, 2008)

Your best bet is to have swam in college, if not your probably gona die. 

A story:
I was canoeing cataract canyon at 12k with just my buddy and I. We flipped in big drop 2. Yet by now we were practiced enough to get back in the boat in the rapids. So we both got back in the canoe in the tail waves of 2, then we flipped again. I got back in, but we were heading toward the rocks in the middle of 2.5 with my buddy between the boat and the rock. I yelled at him and told him to get away from the boat. He said "Peace" and swam right.

He swam through two and a half. However, he was a competant enough swimer to swim to the right shore through some burl eddies with no issue (he went deep though). He got to shore and stood up to take a look. He saw that I was probably going to go over big drop three holding onto the canoe while trying to swim it to shore. So...

He jumps back in with his paddle and swims the colorado river, gets to me, all the while throwing his paddle in front of him and helps me to swim the canoe into the eddy river left. 

It was nuts, I wouldnt have been able to swim across once! It was also useful because some people threw a throw bag to me from shore and for some reason let go once I grabbed it. It proceeded to tangle around my legs and chest. Good Times!

I think the moral of the story is that you are supposed to swim after the swimmer.


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## caspermike (Mar 9, 2007)

Have your paddle somewhat on mind when you pull.


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## BobN (Mar 28, 2006)

ONe thing to do is practice swimming in moving water and "safer" rapids. It will really help you understand the power of moving water and help you stay calmer when faced with the need to swim in big water. Also, a technique that is helpful for crossing eddylines is what I will call spiral swimming. Take one regular forward crawl stroke then rollover and do backstroke, roll over again to forward stroke, etc. Kick like hell the whole time.


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## Andy H. (Oct 13, 2003)

*Here's the rating system*

A little humor for When Its Too Cold to Boat

Someone asked an anonymous boater about his class IV comfort level and he answered something along the lines of "I'm comfortable that I can usually find an eddy to swim to." Thus, the interviewer was inspired to offer this International Scale of River Difficulty:

Class I: Easy
Fast moving water with riffles and small waves. Swimming is pleasant, shore easily reached. A nice break from paddling. Almost all gear and equipment is recovered. Boat is just slightly scratched.

Class II: Novice
Straightforward rapids with wide, clear channels which are evident without scouting. Swimming to eddies requires moderate effort. Climbing out of river may involve slippery rocks and shrub induced lacerations. Paddles travel great distance downstream requiring lengthy walk. Something unimportant is missing. Boat hits submerged rock leaving visible dent on frame or new gash in plastic.

Class III: Intermediate
Rapids with moderate, irregular waves which may be difficult to avoid. Water is swallowed. Legs are ground repeatedly against sharp, pointy rocks. Several eddies are missed while swimming. Difficult decision to stay with boat results in moment of terror when swimmer realizes they are downstream of boat. Paddle is recirculated in small hole way upstream. All personal possessions are removed from boat and floated in different directions. Paddling partners run along river bank shouting helpful instructions. Boat is munched against large boulder hard enough to leave series of deep gouges. Sunglasses fall off.

Class IV: Advanced
Water is generally lots colder than Class III. Intense, powerful but predictable rapids requiring precise swimming in turbulent water. Swimming may require 'must' moves above dangerous hazards. 'Must' moves are downgraded to 'strongly recommended' after they are missed. Sensation of disbelief experienced while about to swim large drops. Frantic swimming towards shore is alternated with frantic swimming away from shore to avoid strainers. Rocks are clung to with death grip. Paddle is completely forgotten. One shoe is removed. Hydraulic pressure permanently removes waterproof box with all the really important stuff. Paddle partners running along stream look genuinely concerned while lofting throw ropes 20 feet behind swimmer. Paddle partners stare slack-jawed and point in amazement at boat which is finally pinned by major feature. Climbing up river bank involves inverted tree. One of those spring loaded pins that attaches watch to wristband is missing. Contact lenses are moved to rear of eyeballs.

Class V: Expert
The water in this rapid is usually under 42 degrees F. Most gear is destroyed on rocks within minutes if not seconds. If the boat survives, it is need of about three days of repair. There is no swimming, only frantic movements to keep from becoming one with the rocks and to get a breath from time to time. Terror and panic sets in as you realize your paddle partners don't have a chance in hell of reaching you. You come to a true understanding of the terms maytagging and pinballing. That hole that looked like nothing when scouted, has a hydraulic that holds you under the water until your lungs are close to bursting. You come out only to realize you still have 75% of the rapid left to swim. Swim to the eddy? What #%^&*#* eddy!? This rapid usually lasts a mile or more. Hydraulic pressure within the first few seconds, removes everything that can come off your body. This includes gloves, shoes, neoprene socks, sunlasses, hats, and clothing. The rocks take care of your fingers, toes, and ears. That $900.00 dry suit, well it might hold up to the rocks. Your paddle is trash. If there is a strainer, well, just hope it is old and rotten so it breaks. Paddle Partners on shore are frantically trying to run and keep up with you. Their horror is reflected in their faces as they stare at how you are being tossed around! They are hoping to remember how to do CPR. They also really hope the cooler with the beer is still intact. They are going to need a cold one by the time they get you get out! Climbing out of this happens after the rapid is over. You will probably need the help of a backboard, cervical collar and Z-rig. Even though you have broken bones, lacerations, puncture wounds, missing digits & ears, and a concussion, you won't feel much because you will have severe hypothermia. Enjoy your time in the hospital, with the time you take recovering you won't get another vacation for 3 years.

Class VI: World Class
Not recommended for swimming.

___________________________________________________

Credit - this has been floating around on the net for years and is something I _wish_ I'd written. -AH


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## Airborne2504 (Jul 11, 2008)

*More Whitewater Swim Humor...*

*The Humourist's Guide to White Water Gradings.*
Class I: If you swim, you just get back in your boat ... and your friends all laugh at you.

Class II: If you swim, you grab your boat and paddle, swim to shore... and your friends all laugh at you.

Class III: If you swim, you get bruised a little, your friends gather up your boat and paddle... and they all laugh at you.

Class IV: If you swim, you get the cr*p beaten out of you; it takes your friends awhile to find your boat and paddle... and then they all laugh at you.

Class V: If you swim, your paddle is never seen again, one of your friends gets to keep your
boat, another keeps your significant other, they split your life insurance, and at the memorial service... and they all laugh at you.


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## GAtoCSU (Apr 18, 2005)

If you ever see me swimming class 5, it will be an all out olympian-type effort to get my ass out of the water. I will ditch my boat, paddle, shoes, dry suit, etc if it means that I can get out of the water faster.

Don't play games in class 5, unless you are on a pool-drop type of stream.


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## godwinaustin (Aug 30, 2009)

Ill tell you what, I swam almost all of IV Kirschbaums on Gore Canyon. I am an excellent swimmer and by the time I got to shore I was exhausted and had the fear of God in me. 

The key if you end up in a gnarly section of river, and more importantly if the rapid is continuous, is to swim like heck, keep your feet up, and get to shore immediately. You need an exit plan and you better hope you are a strong swimmer if it is a long rapid. Keeping your paddle is damned important. You can indeed swim powerfully with a kayak paddle.


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## Phillips (Feb 19, 2004)

Screw that. . . If I wet exit I'm swimmin to the shore ASAP. Don't break your neck or go hypothermic cause your trying to rescue your gear. Have a breakdown in your boat for good measure.



godwinaustin said:


> Ill tell you what, I swam almost all of IV Kirschbaums on Gore Canyon. I am an excellent swimmer and by the time I got to shore I was exhausted and had the fear of God in me.
> 
> The key if you end up in a gnarly section of river, and more importantly if the rapid is continuous, is to swim like heck, keep your feet up, and get to shore immediately. You need an exit plan and you better hope you are a strong swimmer if it is a long rapid. Keeping your paddle is damned important. You can indeed swim powerfully with a kayak paddle.


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## Stuntmonkey (Jul 9, 2009)

Andy H. said:


> A little humor for When Its Too Cold to Boat
> 
> Someone asked an anonymous boater about his class IV comfort level and he answered something along the lines of "I'm comfortable that I can usually find an eddy to swim to." Thus, the interviewer was inspired to offer this International Scale of River Difficulty:
> 
> ...


Hell FSM, you were with me when I swam on the Provo- A Class IV swim on a Class III river. Bolded points above are particularly fresh in my memory (I blame the very numb fingers for not rolling) I couldn't imagine swimming a Class V.


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## phlyingfish (Nov 15, 2006)

There's a big difference between swimming on creeks and rivers. I took a swim in the North Fork Payette at 6,000 one time. I got stuck in a hole, my skirt popped, and next thing I know I'm swimming a river with a very bad reputation at a very high flow. I was wearing a drysuit but still lost my breath from the cold. Every wave put me down underwater. I swallowed water and panicked. Olympian efforts to get to shore where long forgotten as were my boat and paddle. All I wanted to do was concentrate on breathing air and not breathing water. I now understand how people flush drown. 

I made some very weak progress toward shore, but the sweep of the current tends to funnel you back into the middle at those flows. The only reason I got out before swimming more than a mile to the next pool was because I had strong and competent friends with me. I grabbed a boat and kicked. We got to shore, I let go, and I planted my feet on some rocks. I stopped and clawed my way onto sweet dry land. Getting out of the river was a huge risk in its own right. I could have easily been foot-entrapped, but at that point it was a risk worth taking. 

My recommendation is to check your skirt, check your fitness, check you skills, and check your partners. Any one can save your life, and you shouldn't be paddling IV-V without them.


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## Phil U. (Feb 7, 2009)

phlyingfish said:


> There's a big difference between swimming on creeks and rivers. I took a swim in the North Fork Payette at 6,000 one time. I got stuck in a hole, my skirt popped, and next thing I know I'm swimming a river with a very bad reputation at a very high flow. I was wearing a drysuit but still lost my breath from the cold. Every wave put me down underwater. I swallowed water and panicked. Olympian efforts to get to shore where long forgotten as were my boat and paddle. All I wanted to do was concentrate on breathing air and not breathing water. I now understand how people flush drown.
> 
> I made some very weak progress toward shore, but the sweep of the current tends to funnel you back into the middle at those flows. The only reason I got out before swimming more than a mile to the next pool was because I had strong and competent friends with me. I grabbed a boat and kicked. We got to shore, I let go, and I planted my feet on some rocks. I stopped and clawed my way onto sweet dry land. Getting out of the river was a huge risk in its own right. I could have easily been foot-entrapped, but at that point it was a risk worth taking.
> 
> My recommendation is to check your skirt, check your fitness, check you skills, and check your partners. Any one can save your life, and you shouldn't be paddling IV-V without them.


Well said. As a 60 year old guy paddling at 8500', or any elevation, I'm much more willing to paddle a class 4/5 creek than a big water class 3/4 run. And if I'm at any kind of a personal edge I'm paddling with strong young bucks who could be the difference in getting me out of the rio quickly.


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## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

Stuntmonkey said:


> Hell FSM, you were with me when I swam on the Provo- A Class IV swim on a Class III river. Bolded points above are particularly fresh in my memory (I blame the very numb fingers for not rolling) I couldn't imagine swimming a Class V.


Imagine this. The fear of god is upon you, you have become wonderwoman (or superman, whichever you prefer), you experience super human strength and drag yourself back onto your boat with such amazing speed that some people don't even realize you swam. Your mind continues to race even while you must proceed into the following numerous Class V rapids. This was on the NF Payette at 1400, I really can't imagine living through a swim at 6000! FN-A. I had elbow/forearm and knee/shin armor, and while I remember actually impacting nothing, I ended up with a few bruises (really weird places) and quite a few marks on the plastic armor. I was glad I had them as I clawed my way back on my boat through the last few drops of the rapid. My boat had gotten just a bit away from me, and I gave it one good stroke towards it (not proper protocol at all) and my oar slid down through the oarlock right into my hand. I really have no idea how I crawled over 22.5" tubes from the outside, but I think using the rocking of the boat as it went over the drops was key. Never let go of your boat!

Morale of the story, practice dragging your sorry ass back into your boat A LOT (in controlled situations) and never get separated from your boat (raft/cat). Better yet, don't get bucked off.


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## NathanH. (Mar 17, 2010)

Not that I really know too much about this or anything for that matter but...

1. The water takes you back to the middle of the river... so if you take a break on your trek to shore you will end up back in the middle of the river. Identify where you are and swim for your best option like you life depends on it (oh wait! It Does!)

2. Most rescues are self rescues. It's awesome having a great crew to help you out and depend on but when it comes crunch time in some gnar and you're swimming, it's all you. (Phelps going for gold... weed and all)


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## Flying_Spaghetti_Monster (Jun 3, 2010)

Yeah I think swimming in the North Fork the only option you have is to swim for the sides. From what I heard it is hard to see your lines in your boat much less out of it.


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## raymo (Aug 10, 2008)

lhowemt said:


> Imagine this. The fear of god is upon you, you have become wonderwoman (or superman, whichever you prefer), you experience super human strength and drag yourself back onto your boat with such amazing speed that some people don't even realize you swam. Your mind continues to race even while you must proceed into the following numerous Class V rapids. This was on the NF Payette at 1400, I really can't imagine living through a swim at 6000! FN-A. I had elbow/forearm and knee/shin armor, and while I remember actually impacting nothing, I ended up with a few bruises (really weird places) and quite a few marks on the plastic armor. I was glad I had them as I clawed my way back on my boat through the last few drops of the rapid. My boat had gotten just a bit away from me, and I gave it one good stroke towards it (not proper protocol at all) and my oar slid down through the oarlock right into my hand. I really have no idea how I crawled over 22.5" tubes from the outside, but I think using the rocking of the boat as it went over the drops was key. Never let go of your boat!
> 
> Morale of the story, practice dragging your sorry ass back into your boat A LOT (in controlled situations) and never get separated from your boat (raft/cat). Better yet, don't get bucked off.


That is one proven technique. Another one is to hold your breath like you are pleasing the love of your life, while being Maytaged ( wash, rinse and spin cycle) through Snaggle Tooth rapid on the Dolores River at peak run off before the dam was in place. Then being plucked out of the water by a 6 ft. 2 in., 230 lb. guide that will row you to your lost boat, so you can lick your wounds like a house cat that just finished a dog fight with a 130 lb. German Shepard. It is also a good idea to double check your safety equipment ( life jacket, helmet etc.) and give each other's safety equipment a good check too. Did I mention to check and double check your life jacket, helmet etc.?


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## Mike Hartley (May 1, 2006)

Raymo,

You bring back memories of me swimming Snaggletooth in 1984 at 5000 cfs. As I crawled out of the water on my hands and knees I looked up into the faces of my concerned partners and uttered those oft repeated words, "man, I just got the shit beaten out of me". And I know compared to the Class 5 folks are talking about in this thread my swim was nothing. But if my friends hadn't hit me with a throw bag if figure I would have gotten out of the river on my own somewhere around Bedrock!


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## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

raymo said:


> That is one proven technique. Another one is to hold your breath like you are pleasing the love of your life, while being Maytaged ( wash, rinse and spin cycle) through Snaggle Tooth rapid on the Dolores River at peak run off before the dam was in place. Then being plucked out of the water by a 6 ft. 2 in., 230 lb. guide that will row you to your lost boat, so you can lick your wounds like a house cat that just finished a dog fight with a 130 lb. German Shepard. It is also a good idea to double check your safety equipment ( life jacket, helmet etc.) and give each other's safety equipment a good check too. Did I mention to check and double check your life jacket, helmet etc.?


Yes, and always sing praises to the god of lifejackets. In another V- swim last year, I was fortunate enough to get a huge breath as I went over a drop into a hole. As I was underwater I kept thinking "I love my high-float, I love my high float, etc, etc", and I stayed amazingly relaxed until I saw some light. I knew I'd pop up, and thankfully I sailed clear. I agree with a previous poster who alluded to swimming practice, although I don't have any college experience I've always been a fish and springboard diving really helped teach me to manage my breath underwater. I thin the key is measured nasal exhalation, it helps relieve the stress (only if you have a good breath though) and keeps water out better. But other than during the smooth tongue going over that drop I felt as if I could see nothing until a beautiful cat boat came over me and I was able to crawl aboard (barely). My goal for 2011, no swimming Class V.

Another poster mentioned the ball position, which is key in swimming big or technical water. You don't want those appendages hanging out there to get stuck in anything. Cannonball when dropping and aggressive swimming to get to shore or your boat.


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## raymo (Aug 10, 2008)

Mike Hartley said:


> Raymo,
> 
> You bring back memories of me swimming Snaggletooth in 1984 at 5000 cfs. As I crawled out of the water on my hands and knees I looked up into the faces of my concerned partners and uttered those oft repeated words, "man, I just got the shit beaten out of me". And I know compared to the Class 5 folks are talking about in this thread my swim was nothing. But if my friends hadn't hit me with a throw bag if figure I would have gotten out of the river on my own somewhere around Bedrock!


I'm glad it was high water and not low water. Because at high water I hit every other rock, at low water I would have hit every rock.


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## cmike1 (Sep 10, 2006)

I swam Pine Creek from just below the hole through triple drop and beyond at 2300 once. My bud were right beside me but could only offer limited help through the meat. I swam as hard as I could, but kept getting pounded through wave sets and holes. I'd get a brief moment to spit out water and take a breath before getting bounced down to the bottom again. When I finally self rescued and drug myself up on shore I laid face down coughing out water for several minutes. Closest I've ever come to dying on the river. 

After that, I definitely believed one could flush drown. Getting into anything above -IV messed with my head for a long time.


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## gh (Oct 13, 2003)

cmike1 said:


> I swam Pine Creek from just below the hole through triple drop and beyond at 2300 once. My bud were right beside me but could only offer limited help through the meat. I swam as hard as I could, but kept getting pounded through wave sets and holes. I'd get a brief moment to spit out water and take a breath before getting bounced down to the bottom again. When I finally self rescued and drug myself up on shore I laid face down coughing out water for several minutes. Closest I've ever come to dying on the river.
> 
> After that, I definitely believed one could flush drown. Getting into anything above -IV messed with my head for a long time.


Thats a suck swim at any flow. I have swam it at lower flows and its not fun at lower levels either.


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## laughing water (Apr 26, 2008)

Ask Jesus how he did it and start walking on water, buddy.
Keep your head, but use the adrenalin! You're gonna hit stuff. Just go into the hit like it was your plan all along. Fighting to miss it is just gonna put you in the wrong position to hit and bounce and recover smoothly. Pick a direction and keep heading that way. The longer you're in the water, the chances of a crappy ending just keep going up.


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