# Wallowa/Grande Ronde Rafting/Floating Information



## shappattack (Jul 17, 2008)

I have noticed over the last several years an increase in fire pits and fire scars on the Wallowa/Grande Ronde. A lot of these are built by d-bag steelhead fisherman hiking the railroad tracks in the winter and spring on the Wallowa section. However, there are also a lot of issues further down. It is apparent from the videos listed below (of what not to do) that boaters themselves are also exhibiting ignorant and lazy d-bag behavior. This river is well "loved?" and sees intense seasonal use. A lot of tent spots are no longer suitable due to fire damage. In march this year, in a favorite campsite, we found more than 5 distinct fire pits within a 50 foot diameter, all on the vegetated flats that do not get flooded right in good flat tent spots. We also found a dirty diaper in the middle of camp. Know and follow the fire rules below, as well as pack out every thing you bring in (poop and trash as well), which are also the rules. Hopefully someone will find this on a google search while looking for float information and become educated on the subject. 

The rules regarding fires when floating the wild and scenic section of the Wallowa/Grande Ronde Rivers:

From the BLM website:
When not prohibited, fire shall be contained in a fireproof container with sides of a height sufficient to contain all ash and debris, and all ash and unburned debris removed from the river corridor. Avoid building rock fire rings. Fireworks are prohibited year-round.

From the USFS website:
Firepans: Check first to see if campfires are allowed! Open fires built or maintained on any BLM, State or Federal lands within the river corridor must be contained in a fire pan or fire blanket and all ash and debris must be removed from the river corridor and disposed of in a refuse container. Traditional rock-ring fire pits cause heavy impacts to a campsite by attracting and concentrating visitor traffic, compacting and sterilizing soils, and accumulating unburnable debris. Do not construct rock fire rings, and if you would like to help further, dismantle those rock rings that you find. Seasonal fire restrictions may also be in effect. It is common in mid to late summer for campfires to be prohibited due to wildfire danger. Please check regulations before you head out.

Some guidance on what to do:
http://www.blm.gov/or/resources/recreation/files/brochures/firepans.pdf

another good cheap alternative are 2 metal oil pans, put one pan upside down and the other righted up on top of it to elevate. A couple doubled up turkey roasting foil pans work for kayakers, elevate on some rocks on the cobble/gravel bar.

Some examples of what not to do:

https://vimeo.com/98503367

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Gy8b9ym430

This guys is also apparently a river guide?:
https://vimeo.com/127324451

For further information on all the rules see:
http://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/umatilla/recreation/wateractivities/?cid=fsbdev3_062366
http://www.blm.gov/or/resources/recreation/site_info.php?siteid=331


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## bucketboater (Jul 9, 2012)

Lol what's next, going on petas website and tell them meat is murder. We all know the rules here. Try going to Pendleton and tell those hicks how to camp if you want to make a difference. Good luck with that.


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## bucketboater (Jul 9, 2012)

One last comment. You should of posted bring a extra trash bag. NE Oregon is a little slice of Alabama. Place is beautiful but locals give zero fucks. Signed- born and raised Oregonian.


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## wshutt (Jun 20, 2013)

Come on Bucket boater he has a point here - these are newly posted videos of boaters not being respectful to the river corridor so although posting here may be preaching to the choir perhaps there is more we can do to spread the word through the community. I did note that on one video someone had commented about no firepan, perhaps it was our poster.

I suspect the Grand Ronde gets more than its share of multi-day first timers and with being self issue permits etc there is no checking of gear or ranger talk to ensure that everyone knows how to behave. Maybe I'm just trying to be charitable, perhaps they really are being d bags.

I love the GR but haven't floated for a few years; I don't like to hear that it is getting messy.


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## restrac2000 (Mar 6, 2008)

Luckily the 2 camps we used were in pristine shape over Memorial Day weekend but we took smaller, lesser used ones from what I could tell.

Biggest problem we noticed was unleashed dogs whose owners didn't pick up their crap. I know that has led to prohibition of dogs elsewhere so hopefully its not a trend up there. 

Most of the folks were good people and the scenery was stunning. 

Phillip


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## shappattack (Jul 17, 2008)

wshutt said:


> I suspect the Grand Ronde gets more than its share of multi-day first timers and with being self issue permits etc there is no checking of gear or ranger talk to ensure that everyone knows how to behave.


I think this could be a significant concern. I would wager lots of new or very infrequent users float this section due to the relative low difficulty and long float season. This might be preaching to those who know, new folks googling for info might find this post. There is no checking and very little educational materials or effective signage. I would guess a little in-person education/enforcement at the putin would go a long way.


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## shappattack (Jul 17, 2008)

bucketboater said:


> One last comment. You should of posted bring a extra trash bag. NE Oregon is a little slice of Alabama. Place is beautiful but locals give zero fucks. Signed- born and raised Oregonian.


Having lived in NE Oregon for many years and also in the Seattle area for many years, I can firmly say that you have this backwards. NE Oregon is a relatively clean sanctuary compared to the garbage dump that is puget sound area. Pick any gravel road outside seattle and you will find a garbage dump. Drive up any gravel road outside La Grande, John Day, Baker City and you will not find a pile of washing machines, mattresses and the like. Try the same outside Black Diamond, Granite Falls, Arrlington, what will you find?


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## RogueRat (Apr 29, 2015)

That Harry apple palm guy is out of PDX , I talked to him about a bunch of tomcats for sale on craigslist. He was using his Aire outfitter discount to sell boats. Pretty sure he is a member of the whitewater club to the north in Portland. Although the fire seen may have not been actually shot on the G.R 

Interesting enough talking to that guy the outfitters actually get better pricing on boats then the dealers? Wtf is with that. I guess I need a 2 boat guide shop.

In fishing season my local river here has fire remains everywhere, and yes a pan is required


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## jamesthomas (Sep 12, 2010)

Why is it as a general rule that fisherman and hunters are the biggest camp pigs around. I mean really, worm containers, salmon egg jars, snelled hook plastic stuff, cans and broken glass in the stupid fire pit, seriously? Its been my experience that fly fisherman are much better than bait dunkers. I would love to see a ranger writing out 500 buck tickets some day as thats the only thing lots of americans give a shit about, their wallets. Hit them there and they just might get the message.


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## shappattack (Jul 17, 2008)

shappattack said:


> This guys is also apparently a river guide?:
> https://vimeo.com/127324451
> 
> [QUOTE]
> ...


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## Roguelawyer (Apr 2, 2015)

jamesthomas said:


> I mean really, worm containers, salmon egg jars, snelled hook plastic stuff, cans and broken glass in the stupid fire pit, seriously?


I hate this. Big Gulp cups and other trash left on the shore. A huge sign of ignorance.

I generally don't get too worked up over a single fire ring but never can understand why every once in a while you see several in the same area. 

That said, ya gotta love when someone videos and then posts their criminal behavior. . . . and to such soothing music. It would be too funny if the guy ends up with a citation in the mail. Wouldn't be all that difficult to find him.


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## shappattack (Jul 17, 2008)

Furthermore, for newbies that have landed on this site with a google search for Wallowa/Grande Ronde floating info, a couple more videos on impacts from lack of fire pan use.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nk2DtuiWY4g

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBL-YpC3VvY

here is a little lecture on groover use:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bdO8Tx0N7d0


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## shappattack (Jul 17, 2008)

jamesthomas said:


> ts been my experience that fly fisherman are much better than bait dunkers.


Well take a look at the second video above of what not to do on my original post. The video is of a group of kayakers, also showing them fly fishing, with a big ass fire right up on the bar in the middle of camp. Ignorance is not limited by fishing style. Also if interest is, 2 of the 3 videos are of Kayakers. Maybe they think cause they have limited space they are exempt from packing out poop and not using a fire pan. FYI to kayakers, you also must follow the rules.


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## shappattack (Jul 17, 2008)

As another spring rafting season commences, I am amazed by the lack of use of fire pans and grooves by what appear to be well seasoned river crews. 

My hope is that folks looking to float the Wallowa-Grande Ronde might find this thread through a google search. If this is pertains to you, please do not build fire rings (or use existing rings) for big old camp fires like these shit weasels do at minute 2:42. It is against the law. It is easy to use 2 oil change pans to make a simple fire pan. 

Stephen Mathras, you and you crew are assholes, I know exactly the camp you and your crew felt the need to defile. congratulations for making my long running shit weasel list
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lozu8hLLJ5w


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## shappattack (Jul 17, 2008)

not my video, but the start shows a cheap way of how a fire is properly contained in a cheap oil pan. Bravo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6HEUJhT0OUw


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## lncoop (Sep 10, 2010)

LOL shit weasels. I really want to OC1 this with my daughter. Just have to convince the GF to row and find some other fun stuff to justify the loooooooong drive.


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