# Selway access and runoff



## duct tape (Aug 25, 2009)

9 feet!!! Maybe at Lowell? Here’s what the Paradise gauge was today, which is still PLENTY big. 

https://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/fseprd730757.pdf


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## jgrebe (Jan 16, 2010)

Yeah correct. Lowell gauge. Just starting to watch the levels so didn't make that distinction. I'll refer to the Paradise gauge in future posts. Thanks


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

Well, Idaho is at Stage 2 for re-opening, so there's a mandatory 14 day self-quarantine for non-Idaho residents.

If you're coming in through Darby, MT; Montana is at our own Stage 2, which also has a mandatory 14 day self-quarantine for non-Idaho residents.

So...you need to hit the road tomorrow.


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## jgrebe (Jan 16, 2010)

According to the press release I read one day ago, Idaho is at stage 1 starting today. Stage 1 mandates the 14 day quarantine. Stage two will extend from May 15 through May 29th. So we will be in stage 3 when we arrive. Stage 2 and 3 regulations I read don't mention any quarantine but I know that can change. Let me know if you have information to the contrary. I'll follow the rules but I'm not going to sit on my thumbs and get caught flat footed when they open things up and the river is in prime condition (on a permit I've been drawing for for 20 years). I realize it's a low probability trip but just trying to be ready if the window opens. But thanks for the advice


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

Not trying to rain on your permit. I hope it happens for you!
And hell yeah, timing should work out, so definitely be prepared to hit the road and get to the river if the planets align. (and if they don't, you can bump it to 2021 and still go!!!)

I've been invited on a 5/24 MF launch, but I think we'll be a week early to make it happen (so yeah I'm jealous!)...fortunately it can get extended to 2021.

Cheers!


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## duct tape (Aug 25, 2009)

Is the FS plowing the Paradise road?


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## jgrebe (Jan 16, 2010)

Yes, that is what I'm told


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## zbaird (Oct 11, 2003)

How are these 14 day self quarantines proposed? Hotels? Seems like you'd have a hell of a lot less contact if your group just paid at the pump and hit the river. River trip would be a quarantine of sorts.


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## TGGSpin (Jul 15, 2017)

*Roads to Selway and MFS*

We have a permit for the Selway for 5/20 and a permit for the MFS on 5/25. So any information you have on the roads being open would be very helpful.

Our two permits fall into Stage Two. The biggest discussion point is the self-isolation for non-Idahoans. And of course, this is not a "Idaho" thing- but everywhere. One of the main reasons behind this rule is not to spread the virus to other communities as you "visit" one community to the next. I live in a small community that can easily quadruple in population from tourists over a 3-day weekend. I work at the local hospital and we would be easily overwhelmed by tourist with COVID without this rule. 

With that said, I think it is possible to do these trips with NO contact of people outside your party - and specifically no contact with any Idahoans (unless they are on your trip). You have to prepare and buy all food in your home town, and plan on preparing and eating your own food on the road. That is doable. Filling up for gas can be safely accomplished by using clorox wipes or gloves at self filling stations. Strictly no contact with others. Piss in the woods and take an extra goover box. Shuttles are a risk as well that can be managed. I have talked to one shuttle company and they have plans in place of how to protect themselves and us. Essentially wipe and spray the interior of the vehicle when we leave it, give it time before the shuttle people pick it up, then repeat for the shuttle drivers. So although not easy, it is doable. 

The obvious elephant in the room is if someone in your party got so sick they had to go to the hospital or if your group required some sort of rescue involving people outside your party. Then that is a whole other shitshow for sure. 

So I am curious as to what some of you folks are thinking about these rules and how to protect all involved. 

Thanks ahead for your constructive comments and thoughts.


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## joefromsf (Jul 16, 2010)

Not sure about Idaho, but I know the Montana 14-day quarantine for non-residents specifically says that camping is not a valid quarantine activity.


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## zbaird (Oct 11, 2003)

What is a valid quarantine activity? Are you supposed to go to a hotel? Im having a hard time understanding what they actually want you to do?


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## athelake (Dec 3, 2014)

This is what is posted on the Idaho website...

Persons entering the state of Idaho are required to self-quarantine for 14 days. If an individual will be present in Idaho for fewer than 14 days, that individual must self-quarantine for the duration of their visit. For purposes of clarity, this directive does not apply to persons performing an Essential Purpose or persons who as part of their normal life live in one state and travel to another state for an Essential Purpose.
“Essential Purpose” is interpreted broadly and includes travel required for personal safety; to obtain food, beverage or medicine; for medical care; pursuant to a lawful permit, license, court order, or rule; to care for others; and to perform work, services or functions deemed critical to public health and safety, as well as economic and national security. Travel into the state of Idaho for recreation is not an Essential Purpose.
Any individual required by this directive to self-quarantine shall be responsible for any and all costs associated with the requirement to self-quarantine, including transportation, lodging, food, and medical care.


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## wshutt (Jun 20, 2013)

zbaird said:


> What is a valid quarantine activity? Are you supposed to go to a hotel? Im having a hard time understanding what they actually want you to do?



They want you to stay home...... travel from out of state to the rural areas for the purpose of recreation is not part of these first phases of reopening. Many of the areas have maybe one or two known +ves in the entire county, get a spike in numbers and we will all be shut down again. We lost a GC to this, I feel your pain but now is not the time to go boating out of state.


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## TGGSpin (Jul 15, 2017)

*Roads to Selway and MFS*

Thanks for the comments. I do agree with your thoughts. 
Stage One and Stage Two of the reopening states "Minimize non-essential travel and adhere to CDC guidelines regarding isolation following travel." Whereas stage three states "Non-essential travel can resume to locations that allow it and do not have ongoing transmission (adhere to CDC guidelines regarding isolation following travel)."

Additionally - at least for the Selway permit, the Forest Service is requiring some sort of written documentation showing how you and your party have self-isolated for the 14 days. Interesting enough, the MFS rangers are not requiring that info. In fact, they are decidedly not interpreting the state's guidelines, but leaving it to each group to evaluate their situation and determine if they can comply with the rules. 

So basically, at this point, any launch dates before June 1st are extremely restrictive. Basically you have to be an Idahoan to boat on the Selway or MFS or Main before June 1st.


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## zbaird (Oct 11, 2003)

wshutt said:


> They want you to stay home...... travel from out of state to the rural areas for the purpose of recreation is not part of these first phases of reopening. Many of the areas have maybe one or two known +ves in the entire county, get a spike in numbers and we will all be shut down again. We lost a GC to this, I feel your pain but now is not the time to go boating out of state.


Thats the way I was seeing it too. They don't really tell you how they want you to self quarantine. If the wilderness doesn't count they want you to acquire lodging which puts you "in contact". Seems counter productive. Why don't they just say, don't come. 

I as well have a GC trip for 2022. Should be taking out tomorrow.


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## QuietHunter (Jun 8, 2010)

When I ran the Selway, we came in from the Montana side to get there. We stopped at the Ranger station on the way to Paradise Campground, and the ranger station was in Montana. All of this kind of makes me think you could self-Quarantine anywhere as long as you don't really violate the quarantine prior to launch...


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## salmo7000 (Jan 14, 2020)

At the end of May, there is no way to get to Paradise (by driving anyway!) other than going in from the Montana side. Not sure how it would work with self-quarantining in Montana for 14 days, then going to Idaho and launching that day or the next day. 

This is all a huge bummer. I live in Idaho but had to cancel a much-anticipated fishing trip on the Missouri River the third week in April. We were planning to camp, cook all our food in camp, do our own shuttles, and were bringing our own boat. In other words, we weren't planning to contact anyone outside of our 3-person group and were staying in camp when not on the river. I'm certain we could have done it without putting anyone at risk. But based on the self-quarantine rules, it was a no go.


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## TGGSpin (Jul 15, 2017)

I have yet to see any written guidelines saying how to self-Isolate. I believe the intention is that you, and whomever you are with, that are coming into a different state, must isolate yourself from the local residents, for 14 days. If I drove 1 mile over the boarder of Idaho and stayed in the woods for 14 days - I would meet the requirements, assuming I did not interact with the locals. So what is the difference between one mile past the boarder and 100 - not much from the point of isolation. And what is the difference of isolating in the woods or the river - not much - as long as you don't interact with the locals. And obviously, the main problem would be filling up on gas, but I still think that can be achieved safely. 

The self-isolation rule is not what is stopping our group from doing the 3 trips we had in Idaho (Selway, MFS, Main - and yes all back to back - dang), but more so the rule that only essential travel is allowed. And as noted in previous posts that recreation is not considered essential. 

So for anyone having trips in May - you pretty much are confined to your state. And even then, what if you live in a boarder town - then what? 

The bottom line to this whole exercise is to not infect others or be infected yourself. Stay healthy and stay out of the hospitals. This virus is not going away as we change from stage 1 to 2 to 3 to 4. But instead, we have to learn how to interact with other people safely. And that is a learning process for all of us.


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## jgrebe (Jan 16, 2010)

Anybody have any comments on the flows right now? I'm a little confused about the consistent drop all week. Running about 4 ft at Paradise right now - 12000 cfs at Lowell. With all the warm weather we have been having in Colorado I'd have thought the rivers would be roaring up there. Cold? Have we already peaked? Any local input appreciated


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

TGGSpin said:


> I have yet to see any written guidelines saying how to self-Isolate. I believe the intention is that you, and whomever you are with, that are coming into a different state, must isolate yourself from the local residents, for 14 days. If I drove 1 mile over the boarder of Idaho and stayed in the woods for 14 days - I would meet the requirements, assuming I did not interact with the locals. So what is the difference between one mile past the boarder and 100 - not much from the point of isolation. And what is the difference of isolating in the woods or the river - not much - as long as you don't interact with the locals. And obviously, the main problem would be filling up on gas, but I still think that can be achieved safely.
> 
> The self-isolation rule is not what is stopping our group from doing the 3 trips we had in Idaho (Selway, MFS, Main - and yes all back to back - dang), but more so the rule that only essential travel is allowed. And as noted in previous posts that recreation is not considered essential.
> 
> ...


Why are you so keen to split hairs? MT and Idaho have set their rules.

You still can't even legally recreate most places in your own state.


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## jgrebe (Jan 16, 2010)

salmo7000 said:


> At the end of May, there is no way to get to Paradise (by driving anyway!) other than going in from the Montana side. Not sure how it would work with self-quarantining in Montana for 14 days, then going to Idaho and launching that day or the next day.
> 
> Just to clear up one point of confusion, Travelers passing through Montana on the way to Idaho don't have to quarantine. See below for the official Montana website. As far a quarantine in Idaho, that is scheduled to end May 29 - unless extended by State directive.
> 
> ...


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## jgrebe (Jan 16, 2010)

bump


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