# Aire Lion 14. Thoughts?



## Michael Arthur (Jun 8, 2017)

*Aire lion thoughts*

good choice on the Aire lion. the flat top on the lion provides a multitude of options for frames,little day frames to massive cargo rigs.(it'll float 1300 lb's of gear and such). That said. I have one I'd like to sell. If you're interested give me a call @253 267 1052. If you just want to talk about the boat call me,I'm Mike.


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## idaho_h2o (May 5, 2005)

If you want something that you can get some use out of on the east coast, buy a small raft. Something like a super puma or spider would be small enough for east coast and just barely big enough for week long trips in the west. Raft would be much better for dog as well.


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## MountainVisions (Jan 6, 2017)

idaho_h2o said:


> Raft would be much better for dog as well.


Raft would definitely be better with the dog and for gear, more versatile overall. The problem is, I already have a small (micro raft) which is a lot of fun creeking here in the east. I'm looking for something more suitable for big water, Hudson Gorge at high water, New River, Gauley. On the Hudson, which is local to me, most of the rafting companies use cats as support boats in big water, for ducky trip support, or gear boats for overnights. 

I'm definitely not set on a cat, in fact I've gone back and forth on which I think is better for my needs. I really don't see myself using it as a paddle raft much, if ever. Nothing except maybe the Hudson, Moose, Black (at higher levels) and some far off stuff in Maine (Kennebec and Dead at high water, that I hit once a year or two) is big enough to justify a larger paddle raft or oar rig for day trips as a private boater. Storage space wise, I'd like to break it down and have it stored rolled and compactly. I'd like to be able to move it solo (moving my Trib 9.5 is about the reasonable limit for me). Most of our put in aren't trailer friendly. Most involve a hike. The cat should be lighter for day use. And then there is price. Cheaper cost of entry for the cat. Probably $1000 difference if buying new, and you don't find used rafts in the Northeast, so I'm probably buying new. 

Am I looking at it cockeyed or is my logic reasonably sound? I definitely want to end up with something I won't regret.


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## Pinned (Apr 19, 2012)

If you are considering storage and transport, a raft is favorable there as well, IMO. The raft may be heavier rubber but cat frames are a pain to store, especially large cats. I think a cat is a great choice but just want you to have all the info for your decision.


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## dirtbagkayaker (Oct 29, 2008)

The 14 Lion would rock. Its all in how you load and how much you load up. Two ppl and a dog works if thought out. You just dont get to bring two dry box's, full kitchen, 5 dutch ovens, and johney partner. Make sure your dog can walk on top of the gear without getting hung up. A cfd with a good handle too.


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## codycleve (Mar 26, 2012)

I run a 16' lion and my brother in law runs a 14' lion.. He has a 10 foot frame on his boat and it is usually him his wife and a dog.. His set up is as follows front to back.. font bay is a cooler, second bay is rowers foot bay. third bay is a dry box with flip seat over the top of it, fourth bay is passenger foot bay, fifth bay is another cooler slash passenger seat and sixth bay is a drop everything bag by jan at stitches and stuff... It has been down the middle fork at 1.78' with a rookie on the sticks and did pretty well.. it has been down the lower owyhee, main, lower main, and hells several times. 
It is a pretty good little set up and he carries his fair share of gear.. I can see if i find a picture or two. i'm not sure what the rivers back east are like but the middle fork at 1.78' isn't big or forgiving.


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## jerseyjeff (Apr 16, 2016)

This is a tough one because the raft and cat are very different options, On the hudson I have seen folks running 11 and 13 foot outcasts (the videoboaters) and they have a blast in a small continuous curve boat. 
A long time ago I was running a 14 foot ocelot up there, and the kennebec, and the lehigh, but it was most fun at really big water, and I would find myself waiting years between hurricanes. I tried running the ocelot with a plywood platform for my dog, but turns out he was not a water dog, and eventually he stayed off the water. I sold the ocelot and ran an 11 foot tube bobcat, which was a hoot on all water, but that was a day boat with one person and lunch. 

With a cat, you can carry each tube to the water separately and then the frame, and rig at the water, or in the case of the hudson, right above the chute, but, that can be a bit of work with straps and kit everywhere. 

Now my big inflatable of choice is a super puma, and it works well as a floating play pen for float trips with my littles, and is a blast with oars and one to two other paddlers on bigger water. It is a great paddle rig as well for up to 5 plus a guide (although it is tight, and I prefer a max of 5 in the boat for a day paddle). The big problem with the super puma? It is heavy. like stupid heavy to carry. Sure there are stud guides on the upper yough that can carry it solo, but I am not one of them. I can wrangle it with one other person, but prefer 3, with 4, I can move it with the frame on. I have played around with wheels, and found with a C-tug and a rock hard floor I can maneuver it pretty well solo, but I do have to drag it over the tracks at the hudson for solo runs (although often there are folks to help) 

I think cost wise it will be pretty close to the same, with the cat, cheaper tubes, pricier frame and way more straps, with the raft, pricier boat, cheaper frames and way less straps. 

The lion has a really long water line, and will not dance like a wave destroyer, but a wave destroyer will not carry as much a Lion, a super puma is ready to go for a 4 legged friend, but will be a PITA at the put in and take out. 

For my family, the raft was the best choice, but, all of the boats are a compromise, and it just depends on what compromises you want to make.

Shoot me a PM if you want to hop on the super puma and try rowing it a bit in the spring. I can also let you try carrying it to the put in too...


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## Duce (Sep 5, 2011)

I run a 14ft lion with a NRS frame. Its set up with dry box in front, 120 and 70 qt coolers in back. I use it for multi day trips all the time and have had up to three passengers although, 1-2 passengers is preferred.


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## BoscoBoater (Jul 11, 2006)

jerseyjeff said:


> I have played around with wheels, and found with a C-tug and a rock hard floor I can maneuver it pretty well solo, but I do have to drag it over the tracks at the hudson for solo runs (although often there are folks to help) /QUOTE]
> 
> Dude, you're doing it wrong. The railroad tracks are probably the hardest place to take out a raft by yourself. It's a very long distance to carry, and it's always crowded with people.
> 
> ...


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## MountainVisions (Jan 6, 2017)

Not to divert topics. But since we are talking Hudson takeout, I'll add that doing another mile of flatwater past Ehlers rapid (2nd rapid past north river) is a relatively flat roadside picnic area that is 10ft from the road. I usually take out there. I guess in theory you could pull a trailer down to the water, but if not this spot gives you plenty of space to derig and load up. 

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## MountainVisions (Jan 6, 2017)

jerseyjeff said:


> ....
> 
> Shoot me a PM if you want to hop on the super puma and try rowing it a bit in the spring. I can also let you try carrying it to the put in too...


Thanks for this info. And I'll definitely be in touch for the spring. Currently most of my paddling buddies are canoeist so I'm always in search of rafters (specifically oarsmen). Your comments really covers the Northeast end of my raft use pretty well. 

The main problem with the super puma is I could buy a NRS universal frame today (nrs is having a sale) and Aire Lion (or especially NRS River Cat) tubes are less than a super puma. Along with some credit card rewards I could be on the river for under $4k, with a brand new poverty setup, that I could build out fully in the next few years. I spent my early life backpacking, the next 20 years backcountry canoe camping in the Adirondacks were the loads for a 10 day trip where under 100lbs for two people. so I don't need every bell and whistle to start. I figure I'll rent some stuff this year. 

The Puma Super Puma series would probably out me closer to $6000 just to get on the water with a poverty setup. 

In terms of rafts, the Tributary HD or NRS Outlaw series would be closer to what would be reasonable for my budget. And I am definitely considering the Trib 14...but it's like 160lbs before the frame. I like the solid nature of PVC boats and the Aire double bladder design works for me (so far). They are constructed the same as the USA made models. The downside of the Tribs is how much kick they have. Very short chafes so frame configuration is limited. 

If I went with an NRS universal frame (thinking 66/72x120), I could fully disassemble the frame when I don't expect to use it, and I could set it up for day use with the breakdown side rails (I think it can be setup as a 66/72*48 or 66/72*72) . The whole thing probably wouldn't weigh a lot more than my Trib 9.5 for day us. 


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## MountainVisions (Jan 6, 2017)

codycleve said:


> I run a 16' lion and my brother in law runs a 14' lion.. He has a 10 foot frame on his boat and it is usually him his wife and a dog.. His set up is as follows front to back.. font bay is a cooler, second bay is rowers foot bay. third bay is a dry box with flip seat over the top of it, fourth bay is passenger foot bay, fifth bay is another cooler slash passenger seat and sixth bay is a drop everything bag by jan at stitches and stuff... It has been down the middle fork at 1.78' with a rookie on the sticks and did pretty well.. it has been down the lower owyhee, main, lower main, and hells several times.
> It is a pretty good little set up and he carries his fair share of gear.. I can see if i find a picture or two. i'm not sure what the rivers back east are like but the middle fork at 1.78' isn't big or forgiving.


This is great info on the setup. Sounds perfect for a week long trip. Definitely gives me. Good idea what is possible. Thank you. 

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## jerseyjeff (Apr 16, 2016)

Oh boy... 15-17 years of using the hard take out... and getting across the road there is terrifying. I will definitely bring something awesome to share when I see yall on the water. 

We will be floating another mile down from now on! (unless it the super puma is being run as a paddle rig) 
I have an NRS longhorn for the superpuma, and had Gary at rowframes.com design a frame and I ordered the oarstands (and oarlocks) and then got the pipe at a local metal shop. It was really inexpensive, but at 20% off the longhorn might beat it. 
Having said that, all of the kit can get crazy expensive, fast. One thing that has proven itself for rigging (for me) is the wetdreams (out of flagstaff) rigging bag, it has pre sewn strap ends in the bag that makes orginizing all the straps so much easier. 
You really cannot go wrong with either aire, I think the superpuma is pushing 19 years on the water, and, there have been no issues, but, a cat could be a good solution as well. 
If I was independently wealthy, and had a BIG barn, I would definitely have both, but, since I cant, I am digging the super puma right now.


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## Baldy (Oct 23, 2015)

Here's my question. I have a 10x6' three person fishing frame and have been running 16' tubes. Would like a shorter tube, either 14' Lion or NRS have larger diameters than others. Assuming I'm just day tripping with three, would the 14' tubes give me enough floatation or would it be a heavy pig to row?


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## codycleve (Mar 26, 2012)

Baldy said:


> Here's my question. I have a 10x6' three person fishing frame and have been running 16' tubes. Would like a shorter tube, either 14' Lion or NRS have larger diameters than others. Assuming I'm just day tripping with three, would the 14' tubes give me enough floatation or would it be a heavy pig to row?


a 14' lion has about the same carrying capacity as a 16' jaguarundi. Seeing a 14' lion have no problems while loaded up with 2 people and gear and beer for a week makes me think you would be very nimble with 3 people on a day trip. and we drink a lot of beer.


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## codycleve (Mar 26, 2012)

here is a picture of a 14 foot lion loaded for a week. 2 coolers, one dry box, and one drop everything bag. on low water middle fork.


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## MountainVisions (Jan 6, 2017)

codycleve said:


> here is a picture of a 14 foot lion loaded for a week. 2 coolers, one dry box, and one drop everything bag. on low water middle fork.


Thanks. This is exactly what I was looking for. Definitely looks good for me plus 2 passengers or 1 + K9. In fact this is exactly how I had it setup in my mind.

That being said, looking at it, I also see how it's far less dog friendly (which I knew, but seeing it very close to my setup, highlights that). A floor between the rower and the passenger deck would definitely be necessary. I still think for my overall needs a small length, large tube cat is probably slightly better than a round boat, especially at my price point, and pros and cons matrix. Although, both have substantial shortcomings... If only money grew on trees and I had a warehouse to store all my boats. 



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## jamesthomas (Sep 12, 2010)

I have a cat boating pal that has, IMHO opinion, the ultimate cat tube. Custom Sotar Legends, 26.5 diameter, 15.5 long. There's no custom fee cause they been done before. My next tubes will be these either from him used, (fat chance of that), or straight from Sotar. New is spendy. Cats are all about displacement. Floatation works like this, you have to displace the same weight of water as your boat weighs. Longer waterline/bigger diameter means you float higher. Float higher, the boat drives sportier. Bigger diameter tubes are worse in the wind as a trade off. A 14 foot Lion will carry a bigger load than my 16 foot X 24 inch hyside by probably almost double because of the above. I can take two passengers and a cooler of beer and lunch on a fishing day trip or one passenger and a good amount of gear on a multiday and the boat still handles well. The 14 foot lion will handle a lot more.


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