# Electric Trucks



## NoCo (Jul 21, 2009)

300 miles isn't very much for a lot of shuttles. I guess if its a day trip. For example gates of loose is 140+ miles one way. How much for the main Salmon? All day right. Im 100 percent for electrics, but I think there place is going to be as an everyday driver more than a tripper. As a fork lift mechanic, I see the electric lifts go well over 20k hours, as compared to an internal combustion engine lift that go about 10k. To put hours of operation into perspective, a car with average drive times and distances takes a little over 3000 hoyrs to go 100k. Im sure the indoor environments help the electrics go that long. Remember that maintaining an electric lift is easy compared to an ICE lift.


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## kengore (May 29, 2008)

I bet that 300 mile range is under the most ideal conditions. How does that convert to rough dirt roads or really muddy rutted hills? (every driven out of mineral bottom after rain?) And what do you do if you run out of juice in the back country? A really long walk followed by a tow to the nearest charging station? I once ran out of gas driving Cheyenne to Laramie because of a fierce head wind, in spite of careful math.

I think the electric truck would be great for highway and metro travel. Especially fleet vehicles that could charge each night when off shift (while the electric rates are low) But the idea driving 10 hours to a river, stopping every 300 miles while the car needs to slow charge. By contrast I can gas up the 4runner in less than 5 minutes, and I can double my range with a couple of jerry cans. I could hike in enough fuel to drive out a few hundred miles if I needed to.

I wish the electrics were further along, but I think it will be a while before I can give up internal combustion.

A potential downside to the electric truck is the weight, I wonder how big a tow truck you would need to drag one out of the back country?


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## PDX Duck (Mar 17, 2015)

Electric cars - the next great talking point in the 2 car (commuter / weekender) Vs. 1 car (luxury truck / suv / sprinter van conversion) debate


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## theusualsuspect (Apr 11, 2014)

To make this work it’s pretty simple team. Buy f150 lightning, then buy 3/4 ton diesel. You can then choose which truck depending on the needs you have on any given day!


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## Liquidsunshine (Mar 6, 2020)

Big fan of electric technology, but just not there yet for big road trips. Routinely drive 300 in a day for work. Can't imagine doing a multi day shuttle with an electric truck until ranges hit another level. Getting stuck on Bear Camp Rd without juice or cell service would be a bad deal.


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## mukunig (May 30, 2006)

I can't wait to get an electric truck but agree that range is limited as a shuttle vehicle. I'm already planning to get an EV truck in 2022 and will just have to figure out the long shuttles. I don't get to do those trips very often so the truck will be great almost all of the time. The torque and hp sure would make driving and towing fun.


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## okieboater (Oct 19, 2004)

kengore pretty much covered it !!

Some day electric vehicles (maybe when solar panels get so efficient they can by them selves power/charge a super efficient battery) may well be there for travel outside your home city.

Till then my gas powered Tacoma is my vehicle of choice for boating trips anywhere.


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## [email protected] (Jun 1, 2010)

not practical for shuttles in my lifetime IMO


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## mukunig (May 30, 2006)

Bighorrn, we have to hope it isn't true as many/most/all(?) vehicle manufacturers are planning to only produce EVs at some point in the next two decades. If EVs are the only vehicles you can buy, that would mean gas stations would start to go away, leaving us with an EV world even if we try to hold onto our Internal Combustion Engine vehicles. We better hope they figure out longer range batteries (battery prices are coming down fast, and capacity keeps increasing) and/or ways to do quick charges in the field.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

PDX Duck said:


> Electric cars - the next great talking point in the 2 car (commuter / weekender) Vs. 1 car (luxury truck / suv / sprinter van conversion) debate





theusualsuspect said:


> To make this work it’s pretty simple team. Buy f150 lightning, then buy 3/4 ton diesel. You can then choose which truck depending on the needs you have on any given day!


^^
I'd argue for 2-car. Run an electric commuter and have the ol' 3/4T truck (or really a new-ish 1/2T fuel injected pickup) is plenty for weekend/home improvement limited mileage uses.

Everyone's needs and uses are different. Do appreciate the discussion and looking at these uses for alternative fuel vehicles.


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## Senor D (May 22, 2018)

mukunig said:


> Bighorrn, we have to hope it isn't true as many/most/all(?) vehicle manufacturers are planning to only produce EVs at some point in the next two decades. If EVs are the only vehicles you can buy, that would mean gas stations would start to go away, leaving us with an EV world even if we try to hold onto our Internal Combustion Engine vehicles. We better hope they figure out longer range batteries (battery prices are coming down fast, and capacity keeps increasing) and/or ways to do quick charges in the field.


I expect that someone will get the bright idea to make a standard vehicle battery (probably 2, ala VHS & Beta) that is swappable. All the gas stations will remain as a place to grab a freshly charged battery, leave your used one for a recharge, buy some garbage food, and use the toilet. You could bring a second battery for long distance off road trips. 
Fuck, shoulda patented that shit before I wrote this...


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## mukunig (May 30, 2006)

Well, what do you know: 
"Tesla’s plan for a retractable solar bed cover on its Cybertruck electric pickup truck has been revealed in a new patent application.After the launch of the Cybertruck, CEO Elon Musk surprised many when he said that Tesla’s new electric pickup truck will have a solar roof option that will add 15 miles of range per day."









Tesla Cybertruck retractable solar bed cover revealed in patent


Tesla’s plan for a retractable solar bed cover on its Cybertruck electric pickup truck has been revealed in a new...




electrek.co





The ability to add 15 miles a day to the battery doesn't sound like much, but over the 6 or 7 days you are on the river it might be enough to help get back to civilization. No, this isn't the solution, but it might be the beginning of one.


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## bmason (Mar 22, 2021)

Shuttles require a lot of mileage and are often remote. Batteries would need to come a long way for me. I've been eyeing an electric as a replacement for our city car though.


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## SherpaDave (Dec 28, 2017)

Senor D said:


> I expect that someone will get the bright idea to make a standard vehicle battery (probably 2, ala VHS & Beta) that is swappable. All the gas stations will remain as a place to grab a freshly charged battery, leave your used one for a recharge, buy some garbage food, and use the toilet. You could bring a second battery for long distance off road trips.


Tesla already did this. They converted a car wash between SF & LA. Removes your battery 1 way then swap back on the return trip.


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## SherpaDave (Dec 28, 2017)

I have an electric that I use for a commuter/daily driver and a suburban for road trip family hauler. My EV is cheap to operate, minimal maintenance and equally important- fun to drive on my windy commute.
I find the (2) biggest limitations for EV at this point is limited charging infrastructure, especially in remote areas, and time to charge. Over time I expect more charging infrastructure and quicker charge times. Currently some vehicles can charge from 20%-80% in about 30 min. With my family I spend that anyway at a fuel stop every 350 mi... if I’m lucky. Both of these will likely improve over the next decade which could make them viable options for long shuttles but alas it is not the case today.


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## mukunig (May 30, 2006)

SherpaDave, I agree that charging infrastructure is the biggest limitation right now, especially in remote places where we want to boat and recreate. Kia is coming out with the EV6 crossover in 2022 that has the ability to charge 80% in 18 minutes. But, what rural areas will install those high speed chargers? Without major incentives, I doubt any remote river areas would install those. There are surprises out there as small remote towns like Red Lodge, MT have installed public EV chargers to attract tourists. Lander, WY is exploring adding them to draw people driving to Yellowstone/Grand Teton to pass through town and stop to eat or shop. No boating towns that I know of have these sorts of plans though.


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

Electric trucks, especially made by Ford, well.. Nice idea, but #1) I wouldn't buy anything on the first year it comes out, especially using new and unproven technology, and then from Ford, known for it's recalls and spontaneously combusting vehicles.. 

Secondly, shuttles are hard on vehicles, and the given range for electrics don't take into account the rough roads and slower speeds that comprise most shuttles, I'd worry, especially if your shuttle company isn't familiar with an electric truck, of it getting from point A to point B..

Many shuttle companies employ older retired folks to shuttle your vehicle, likely not going to be familiar with the latest technology. Get a Chevy Bolt or something for around town, and a regular pickup for your towing needs. I have a Chevy Colorado diesel that gets 35 mpg running around empty, and about 25 to 28 towing my raft trailer or Dory.


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## SherpaDave (Dec 28, 2017)

Mukunig - I expect over time more places will be self incentivized to install chargers as demand increases. The cost of chargers is less than fuel tank & pumps. The maintenance on chargers is less than fuel pumps. And critically if someone has 15-20 min they are more incentivized to go inside the shop where the actual money is made at a fuel station. Will the timeframe be 5 years, 20 years, or never - I have no idea. But I believe in business that if it’s profitable someone will fill the gap, if not they won’t.


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

SherpaDave said:


> Mukunig - I expect over time more places will be self incentivized to install chargers as demand increases. The cost of chargers is less than fuel tank & pumps. The maintenance on chargers is less than fuel pumps. And critically if someone has 15-20 min they are more incentivized to go inside the shop where the actual money is made at a fuel station. Will the timeframe be 5 years, 20 years, or never - I have no idea. But I believe in business that if it’s profitable someone will fill the gap, if not they won’t.


From what I've seen, America is not getting on the EV bandwagon, too many drawbacks not enough pluses.

Not to mention at the end of the day the infrastructure is not in place, and there's no incentive to put it in place
The Biden agenda will die,, along with what could be loosely defined as a presidency will die as well.


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## mukunig (May 30, 2006)

MNichols said:


> From what I've seen, America is not getting on the EV bandwagon, too many drawbacks not enough pluses.
> 
> Not to mention at the end of the day the infrastructure is not in place, and there's no incentive to put it in place
> The Biden agenda will die,, along with what could be loosely defined as a presidency will die as well.


Up until now EVs have been quite a bit more expensive than internal combustion engine vehicles, and combine that with the limited charging infrastructure outside of major coastal cities, and EVs have been impractical and way too expensive for most Americans. For the most part they have been only for elite city dwellers, and labeled as vehicles for rich liberals. As prices come down - price parity is only a few years away - and charging infrastructure is installed (auto manufacturers are investing in this now), it will be interesting to see what happens. The auto industry may have the most to say about this if they really do shift their R&D and factories to electric. They have a strong financial incentive for all of us to buy new EVs. They are coming out with trucks now to try to convince the non coastal elites to buy electric. It will be interesting to see if this demographic will accept the trucks, or will more coastal elites buy them?


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## SherpaDave (Dec 28, 2017)

MNichols said:


> From what I've seen, America is not getting on the EV bandwagon, too many drawbacks not enough pluses.
> 
> Not to mention at the end of the day the infrastructure is not in place, and there's no incentive to put it in place
> The Biden agenda will die,, along with what could be loosely defined as a presidency will die as well.


I won’t disagree that currently EV’s are a very low percentage of vehicle sales. I won’t disagree that there is a very long way to go before mass adoption takes place and I am not convinced that it is inevitable EV’s will completely replace ICE’s.
That being said I bought an EV 5 years ago on economics and was very pleasantly surprised by the performance. I spent $400 to install a charger at my house so I rarely charge elsewhere.
This is a substantial digression from the threads original question as my EV is not a truck, has a fraction of the range of any new EV, and is not my only vehicle. But range of vehicles has increased 3-4x in the past 5 years, not that I have any expectation this rate will increase.

As for political agendas it seems more happened in EV development the last few years than any other so I give little credence to the ever shifting political winds.

To go back to the initial question in the thread - now is probably not the right time for an EV rig beyond your local runs. Things could be different a decade from now... Or not.


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## trialsize (May 11, 2018)

Keep an eye on Rivian. Horrendously expensive right now but bound to come down eventually.


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## MotorMan27 (May 9, 2014)

Ev... the higher the load i.e. speed or weight the range decreases exponentially. I'm saving $ to buy a fleet of diesels that can handle the loads and miles required to travel the west when they quit producing them


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## zaczac4fun (Mar 21, 2018)

Apparently the 300mi range on on the lightning is very conservative. Based on a 1000lb payload. Not that this fixes the range problem.

I looked into two shuttle lengths to see how feasible an EV would be. On Deso, there are rapid chargers close enough to the put in, there are some about 1/2 way along the shuttle and some in Green. So very feasible with a 40 minute charge stop (the lightning can speed charge from 15-80% in <40minutes). Obviously the shuttle service would have to charge more. The other I looked at was the Salmon, no joy there. No fast chargers anywhere in the area or along the shuttle. 
I know it partly ruins the point, but I also wonder about the feasibility of using a quiet gas generator overnight at a put in for 12hr slow charge (out of the estimated 19hrs needed for a full charge). Haven’t done the calculations on that yet…



https://www.engadget.com/ford-electric-f-150-lightning-range-estimates-174237685.html


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## dwjohnson (Mar 1, 2020)

I want one too, but my understanding is that range isn't the issue with e-vehicles for this application, its range while towing. Its supposed to eat batteries and rapidly towing even a light load. I also own a slide in camper and need a dually for the load with that thing in the bed & wonder how much that would affect range.


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

zaczac4fun said:


> Apparently the 300mi range on on the lightning is very conservative. Based on a 1000lb payload. Not that this fixes the range problem.
> 
> I looked into two shuttle lengths to see how feasible an EV would be. On Deso, there are rapid chargers close enough to the put in, there are some about 1/2 way along the shuttle and some in Green. So very feasible with a 40 minute charge stop (the lightning can speed charge from 15-80% in <40minutes). Obviously the shuttle service would have to charge more. The other I looked at was the Salmon, no joy there. No fast chargers anywhere in the area or along the shuttle.
> I know it partly ruins the point, but I also wonder about the feasibility of using a quiet gas generator overnight at a put in for 12hr slow charge (out of the estimated 19hrs needed for a full charge). Haven’t done the calculations on that yet…
> ...


Huh, I read a test drive article from one of the major magazines, and they said that 300 miles was quite optomistic, the range was calculated at 55 mph on the highway. The article you posted cites "estimates" and the one I read was in a real time test drive, empty and being driven in varying conditions they related a realistic 260 mile range. As many have noted, more drag and weight, equals less range.


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

dwjohnson said:


> I want one too, but my understanding is that range isn't the issue with e-vehicles for this application, its range while towing. Its supposed to eat batteries and rapidly towing even a light load. I also own a slide in camper and need a dually for the load with that thing in the bed & wonder how much that would affect range.


Well, a total capacity of 2000 lbs.. 2 big guys in the truck, with a boat and gear for a multi day and it'd be overloaded. They say it can tow 10K pounds, but only with the very pricey extended range battery, which I'm guessing is where the range estimates in the article zaczac posted came from. Car and driver says with the standard pack it has a 230 mi range, 300 with the extended battery pack









563-HP 2022 Ford F-150 Lightning Turns America’s Top Seller Electric


Ford's new electric pickup claims up to 300 miles of range and a 10,000-pound towing capacity.




www.caranddriver.com





Everything I've read points to a whole lot of hype, as these things aren't out in the wild right now.. I can only imagine the quality issues that will crop up for the first couple years, likely similar to Tesla with roofs flying off and such.


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## Waterhopper (Jul 3, 2017)

MNichols said:


> I have a Chevy Colorado diesel that gets 35 mpg running around empty, and about 25 to 28 towing my raft trailer or Dory.


MNichols likes his Chevy Colorado diesel, and some one else touted their gas engine version. M, is that the 2.8 liter Duramax? And for the other driver, what kind of mileage on the gasoline version, and which engine was it?


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

Waterhopper said:


> MNichols likes his Chevy Colorado diesel, and some one else touted their gas engine version. M, is that the 2.8 liter Duramax? And for the other driver, what kind of mileage on the gasoline version, and which engine was it?


It indeed is the 2.8 Duramax, ballsy little motor considering it's displacement. I haven't found any reasonable load that would slow it down yet


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## mukunig (May 30, 2006)

MNichols said:


> Everything I've read points to a whole lot of hype, as these things aren't out in the wild right now.. I can only imagine the quality issues that will crop up for the first couple years, likely similar to Tesla with roofs flying off and such.


This made me laugh out loud. Ford has been building trucks a long time. I don't think we'll see roofs flying off. Could there be problems with the electronics? Sure. But I bet it's generally nothing a software upgrade can't fix. That's part of the beauty of an EV. There are way fewer moving parts and things that can break.

As for adoption by the mainstream, change can happen quickly when the new technology is better.

"In one decade, cars replaced horses (and bicycles) as the standard form of transport for people and goods in the United States.

"In 1907 there were 140,300 cars registered in the U.S. and a paltry 2,900 trucks. People and goods still travelled long distances on land by railroad, and short distances by foot or horse-drawn carriage. Almost nobody rode horses, but plenty of people rode bicycles for pleasure and for transport.

"Ten years later in 1917, there had been a 33-fold increase in the number of cars registered, to almost 5 million, and a 134-fold increase in the number of commercial, agricultural and military vehicles, to almost 400,000. Horses were now an imperilled minority on the roads; bicycles were in decline in the U.S., although still popular in Europe."








The Motor Vehicle, 1917 [Slide Show]


Greater utility and more luxury




www.scientificamerican.com





It took less than a decade for smartphones to replace flip phones atop the cellular market. Computers replaced typewriters rapidly.

Personally, I wouldn't bet against EV's dominating in 10-15 years. As sales increase, prices will come down and innovation will increase. 

Check out this Aussie coal miner trying a friend's Tesla:Video: Aussie truck driver lets no-nonsense coal miners drive his Tesla | Daily Mail Online
EVs are more fun to drive and will convince skeptics.


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## Bleugrass (Feb 5, 2018)

Was just reading that the refreshed Tundra is supposed to offer hybrid and EV configurations (in addition to a standard twin turbo V6) within the next few years. Nothing official announced yet, but lots of Car and Driver-type places are getting the hype train rolling.

I agree with the posters here who find EVs unsuitable for shuttle vehicles at the current time. Things are changing... heck, I was in Mancos, CO last weekend, and they have a nice new EV charging station in their little overgrown town park. But I'd personally need something closer to a 400 mile range in real-world towing situations AND a heck of a lot more charging stations in remote locations to consider an EV for a shuttle truck.


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

mukunig said:


> This made me laugh out loud. Ford has been building trucks a long time. I don't think we'll see roofs flying off. Could there be problems with the electronics? Sure. But I bet it's generally nothing a software upgrade can't fix. That's part of the beauty of an EV. There are way fewer moving parts and things that can break.


Ummm, have you taken a look at the list of active recalls for ford products? 26 of them, for everything from the suspension, driveline falling out, axles seizing up... No roofs flying off, yet.. They hardly have building reliable vehicles down pat..


https://www.cars.com/research/ford/recalls/




Bleugrass said:


> Things are changing... heck, I was in Mancos, CO last weekend, and they have a nice new EV charging station in their little overgrown town park.


Did ya happen to notice what sort it was? The reason I ask is depending on the type, it takes from 21 hours 3.7kw) to 2 hours (43-50 kw) to charge an EV (tesla numbers here) depending on the type of charger, and the type the EV needs. Not to mention that if someone is already using it, then you would have to wait your turn. Not really a speedy process.


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## Bleugrass (Feb 5, 2018)

MNichols said:


> Did ya happen to notice what sort it was? The reason I ask is depending on the type, it takes from 21 hours 3.7kw) to 2 hours (43-50 kw) to charge an EV (tesla numbers here) depending on the type of charger, and the type the EV needs. Not to mention that if someone is already using it, then you would have to wait your turn. Not really a speedy process.


I didn't notice... was too busy stuffing an Absolute Bakery burrito into my mouth. I did a little search and it looks like it was installed in 2019, which suggests it isn't the latest and greatest.


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

That seems to be part of the problem, the whole EV thing might work better if they didn't put the cart before the horse..


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## mukunig (May 30, 2006)

It's a chicken and egg thing. Nobody will buy EV's if there isn't charging infrastructure, but who wants to invest in charging infrastructure if nobody drives an EV.


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## mukunig (May 30, 2006)

Investment analysts think the EV revolution is for real. It will be interesting to see what innovation comes about in the next decade. Maybe there will be some trucks capable of long challenging shuttles?: 

"Competition among automakers is setting up the 2020s to be a time of rapid innovation. UBS said in its report that its analysts are increasingly confident that EVs will have 20 percent of the global market by 2025 and 50 percent by 2030, and a chance of 100 percent by 2040. Their current share is 4 percent globally, and 2 percent in the United States."








Inside Clean Energy: Well That Was Fast: Volkswagen Quickly Catching Up to Tesla - Inside Climate News


This is a big month for Volkswagen’s aspiration to become the leading maker of electric vehicles. The all-electric ID.4, a compact SUV that is a crucial part of the company’s planned transition, began arriving at U.S. dealerships this month. And Volkswagen held a “Power Day” event last week, in...




insideclimatenews.org


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## powshots970 (Sep 27, 2010)

*







*


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## theusualsuspect (Apr 11, 2014)

The solution long term isn’t stringing together Li-ion batteries. There needs to be more innovation in the space which I’m confident will happen.


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## mukunig (May 30, 2006)

That meme reminds me of the old saying: "I may be fat but you're ugly, and at least I can diet." Bad mining is bad mining and must (and can) be done better. But continuing to burn fossil fuels can only lead to global disaster. The pipeline is not the problem- it's what it carries that matters. 

But this thread is about whether or not EVs like the upcoming F150 Lightning are ready to be rafting shuttle vehicles. Whether you like EVs or not, whether you accept the reality of climate change or not, the question is are they ready now and/or will they be soon.

Judging from the money being invested in them it seems their share of the vehicle market will grow quickly and we will see a great deal of innovation in cars and batteries over the next decade. One goal of car makers is to create batteries that use smaller and smaller amounts of rare and/or expensive metals and to find ways to get more power and faster charging out of smaller and lighter batteries. I'm betting on innovation in EVs for the future.


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

Well, at the end of the day, from my view point, electric vehicles dependent on batteries are going to be little more than a flash in the pan. Current technologies suck compared to ICE, and considering how long Tesla's, and the various offerings from GM and Nissan have been out there, the same stale technology is being re used, with no real innovation past trying to make them self driving and do cool tricks, nobody has done anything toward making the range on the EV anything close to usable for what 80% of the US needs their vehicles for. 

Something called a truck, that has a 230 mile range that evaporates rapidly when is actually used as a truck to haul something, and granted it doesn't have a lot of capacity, well, that wouldn't work even for me locally to do a day float on the Ark, and I live here. 

Now, if they were able to work out the kinks of hydrogen




__





Alternative Fuels Data Center: Fuel Cell Electric Vehicles






afdc.energy.gov




That might stand a chance as it can be refueled every 300 miles in 4 minutes using current infrastructure such as gas stations. 
Toyota is already making a car








2022 Toyota Mirai Fuel Cell Vehicle | Innovation is Power


Explore the 2022 Toyota Mirai on the official Toyota site. Find this Toyota fuel cell car at a dealership near you, or build and price your own online today.




www.toyota.com




So is Honda




__





Vehicle Electrification – Benefits and Technologies | Honda


Discover the advanced technologies and benefits of a Honda electrified vehicle. Compare the stylish and elegant electrified lineup from Honda and take our quiz to see what electrified vehicle is right for you.




automobiles.honda.com





It's got Elon Musk scared








Elon Musk says the tech is 'mind-bogglingly stupid,' but hydrogen cars may yet threaten Tesla


Tesla and a growing list of competitors in the electric vehicle market dominate debate over the future of cars and recharging networks, but there's another kind of green transportation making inroads, based on the most abundant resource in the universe: hydrogen fuel cells.




www.cnbc.com




Toyota is already making hydrogen powered semi's..

My crystal ball is busted right now, but it would seem that something that costs 4 times less than batteries, and has a much longer range may indeed come to fruition in a good way.


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## BenSlaughter (Jun 16, 2017)

I didn't notice anyone mention what towing an inflated raft does to range. Let alone a stack of 3 boats.
My ole Powerstroke gets 16-18mpg empty. Drops to 11-12 with one raft, no matter how heavily it's loaded. 2-3 rafts it's down around 10mpg. So that 300 mile range just became 150.
Can't get very far in the American West with that kinda range. 

If they can gettum up 3x, I'll think about one.


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

BenSlaughter said:


> I didn't notice anyone mention what towing an inflated raft does to range. Let alone a stack of 3 boats.
> My ole Powerstroke gets 16-18mpg empty. Drops to 11-12 with one raft, no matter how heavily it's loaded. 2-3 rafts it's down around 10mpg. So that 300 mile range just became 150.
> Can't get very far in the American West with that kinda range.
> 
> If they can gettum up 3x, I'll think about one.


My 2004 ram 2500 gets 23 to 25 mpg running empty, same for 1 or 2 boats, a 4 stack trims it down to 20, 30,000 of hay on a 40 foot trailer takes it to 18mpg.. My wife tows 3 horses all over hell and back, 3 horse slant load trailer with a small living quarters, 18 mpg all day, all the time, ram 2500 2007 model.. that being said, yes I did rebuild the engine in my two thousand and four at 390,000 miles, now it's good for another 300,000 plus.... Its stories like yours, that makes me damn glad I've never considered anything Ford motor company ever put out.. as a friend pointed out the other day, you always hear about Ford owners putting Cummins motors into their Fords, but you never ever hear of anybody ever putting a power stroke, or is there more commonly known choke and smoke diesel into anything else.


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