# Lower water main salmon beta wanted please



## cnalder (Jul 7, 2016)

I’ve done late august trips for multiple years. There is plenty of water and flows to do 10-18mi comfortably. There can be wind but if you can get out of camp by 10am you’ll be fine. Most large 21+ people and outfitters do 5 nights. I like 6 nights in low water.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

Should be similar-ish to Sept-Oct trips in normal years. 

growler is supposed to get a bit bony

BIG beaches and likely yellowjackets

hopefully cool evenings and pleasant days but could be hot


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## Pinchecharlie (Jul 27, 2017)

Sweet thanks you guys. Just trying to guess on milage for the camps. I've heard get ahead of pack and I've heard launch late . With kids I'd rather not have to go to late and or go to far to hope for a camp. We where thinking of seven days lazy? It's just hard for kids to make miles day after day but 6 full days sounds just right . Iam feeling good about it but just need more experience with what miles and how they add up for a trip to equal into a relaxed experience vs being to tired. Thanks! I'd take any and all tips you'd share . This will be my most ambitious trip to date...


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

Faster flows up top, make miles there

don’t expect to push as hard miles 50-70 through Salmon Lake…also fewer campsites in that section

don’t push hard every day.
layovers are awesome, too.


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## cnalder (Jul 7, 2016)

If you are a small group you won’t have any problems for camps. After the South Fork there are numerous beaches that are great camps not in the guide books or on the Forest Service list of camps.


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## Idagal (Jul 15, 2021)

Pinchecharlie said:


> Sweet thanks you guys. Just trying to guess on milage for the camps. I've heard get ahead of pack and I've heard launch late . With kids I'd rather not have to go to late and or go to far to hope for a camp. We where thinking of seven days lazy? It's just hard for kids to make miles day after day but 6 full days sounds just right . Iam feeling good about it but just need more experience with what miles and how they add up for a trip to equal into a relaxed experience vs being to tired. Thanks! I'd take any and all tips you'd share . This will be my most ambitious trip to date...


We've done the Salmon many times. It's a great river for kids. August isn't our first choice, but better than nothing. It will probably be hot, hopefully not smokey. Good chance there will be bees. There will be an up canyon wind after Mackay Bar that can trash you so don't be too late that day! Enjoy!


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## Pinchecharlie (Jul 27, 2017)

Thanks. Was just my first opportunity so I grabbed it lol. As long as we can swm i think we'll be OK . Typically what side of the rivers in the shade late afternoon? By bees you mean hornets and yellowjackets? Iam kinda getting scared for them. They can be very aggressive in fall. Hoping to do all smaller camps to maybe cut down on them? Well see! Hopefully my kids don't say "another of dad's bad brain ideas!"


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## cnalder (Jul 7, 2016)

This is a great river and August is a great time. What I’ve found in August is the water is warm, days are plenty hot, but it cools down at night, and rapids are fairly straight forward. Heck my 10 and 12 year olds have paddled the entire river the last 2 years. Primarily yellowjackets, stay away from the big camps and they won’t be as bad. Also in late august you won’t see the large groups. Definitely get on the water earlier the day you hit the South Fork and below. Stop at Buckskins for ice cream and black butte porter floats. If your a small group I’d forego reserved camps below the South Fork, there are plenty of unmapped beaches. 

For shade it really depends on the ridges. Most are beach camps so fairly exposed at low flows.


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## Pinchecharlie (Jul 27, 2017)

Well only way to find out is go I guess! Excited for sure. Now let's hope that the fire and smoke clears a little and the flash flood thing doesn't deposit strainers !! We had to do camps like this on the smith here and by chance our camps kinds sucked. Hoping that the groups are mostly large and we can have a better chance but I bet all of them are better than my office at work!!


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## BenSlaughter (Jun 16, 2017)

I much prefer The Main in late summer. I've never run it as low as it'll be this year, but I enjoy it far more at lower flows, sunshine, warm water, big beaches. Yes, the yellow jackets can be a problem. Take some traps, set them up away from camp. Doesn't solve the problem, but it mitigates it. Not sure how they are this year...
Caught these in about 30 hours while layover camped at South Fork Island a few years ago.


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## Pinchecharlie (Jul 27, 2017)

Never seen the small "capsule " inside the main trap? I have a bunch of those traps fir my bee yards but it's a cotton ball with stuff? What's inside the deally?


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## BenSlaughter (Jun 16, 2017)

Pinchecharlie said:


> Never seen the small "capsule " inside the main trap? I have a bunch of those traps fir my bee yards but it's a cotton ball with stuff? What's inside the deally?


Those were just the bait capsules that came with the traps. The refills are the more traditional cotton ball and stinkjuice kits.


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## Idagal (Jul 15, 2021)

Idagal said:


> We've done the Salmon many times. It's a great river for kids. August isn't our first choice, but better than nothing. It will probably be hot, hopefully not smokey. Good chance there will be bees. There will be an up canyon wind after Mackay Bar that can trash you so don't be too late that day! Enjoy!


Most of your questions were answered. Sun does depend where you are in the canyon, but I'd say river right might get more sun. When we had young kids (5, 6, 7 years old) in our group, we brought a screen tent for them to eat in because of the bees. Bring bee traps or just put your empty soda/beer cans out. Don't be turned off by the bees (you may not have any), it's just good to be prepared. Also, keep your money out for Buckskin Bills (5 Mile bar) for treats. You can also get ice there and you can fill up your water jugs. The ranger has a book at Corn Creek with pictures of most of the campsites. They change with the flow and the willows have taken over some. It's a beautiful river! Your kids probably won't get out of the water until it gets dark!


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## craven_morhead (Feb 20, 2007)

We ran it for the first time earlier this year, and we had a small (one boat) trip. I was amazed at how many nice, unreserved beach champs there were, and we had more water than you'll have. Running a small trip gives you a ton of options. Some sort of shade structure will likely come in handy though - a lot of the beaches are fairly exposed. We also had a bimini on the boat which was nice for insta-shade.


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## Pinchecharlie (Jul 27, 2017)

STOKED!!!
iam a gear head...got it all even the yellowjacket traps lol! Hopefully for everyone's sake and the good people local the fires and wind will give some relief soon. Thanks so much for your replies!!


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

Oh yeah:
If you can swing the time, an extra day between Carey down to Spring Bar..or 1.5 days down to Shorts bar is worthwhile.
the view is way better from the water than from the bridge








...plus you can run Ruby and Lake Creek.


And yet one more day down past Riggins to run the big water Daily and take out at Old Lucile would be VERY worthwhile!








...and run Time Zone, Tight Squeeze, Black Rock, Ladder....


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## Pinchecharlie (Jul 27, 2017)

Lol!!! Iam starting to be like "oh shit I gotta do this and that and this..." so maybe I'll try and do more next time! Been so much talk about buzz being lame but I could have ten posts going now for advice!!!!! Thanks though hopefully someday we can run it all from "the top" together!!!


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

You realize that running it from the top is like a 440 mile trip??!


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## Pinchecharlie (Jul 27, 2017)

I feel like that with just one stretch!!! Lol! My buddies doing m.f. main lower snake in the fall!!! Iam just being humble cause this is my first real trip and even though it's common and easy for most it's daunting to me lol!!! And I want it to be fun not stressful! Yahaha! Gonna eat more humble pie... again!


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## BenSlaughter (Jun 16, 2017)

I agree w\Mr4Runner on taking the extra day to go to Spring Bar, at least. That section of canyon down by the Mann Cr bridge is beautiful, good camping available on the "other" side of the river, to avoid the drive in campers.
A few years ago, I had a crew of VERY attractive ladies on one of those beaches show me their goods...without my even asking!!
I felt bad I didn't have any beads to give them....


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## Pinchecharlie (Jul 27, 2017)

Dumb question. If you reserve a camp does that mean you HAVE to camp there? For instance theres only two small reserve camps on our day one milage but there's one I'd like to have first come. Does that mean I gotta not reserve one and risk it? Ect ect on down the river?


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## cnalder (Jul 7, 2016)

Yes. If you request and are assigned a reserved camp you are required to stay there. It’s a real a-hole move to be assigned a camp that someone else may have also requested but it was assigned to you and you stay somewhere else. If you are only going for 5 nights ask for some of the larger camps. In late august large groups are rare. 

I wish the main would assign all camps.


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## BenSlaughter (Jun 16, 2017)

How many people in your group?

If you're on the small side, I wouldn't bother reserving camps.
At low water, un-named beaches are aplenty.


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## Pinchecharlie (Jul 27, 2017)

Only 11 in our group but one wife (mine) is a real wet blanket and is scared we'll float off in the night looking cause they are full lol.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

Pinchecharlie said:


> Only 11 in our group but one wife (mine) is a real wet blanket and is scared we'll float off in the night looking cause they are full lol.


In fairness to your wife, it can happen. They won't ALL be full, but you could easily have to float another 5-10 miles to find an open camp.


At low water, there are plenty of beaches that will fit 11.


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## BenSlaughter (Jun 16, 2017)

I concur.
If you were maybe 8-10 people, I'd roll the dice on not picking reserved. Any bigger, and you could get skunked out of a decent camp...
However, I wouldn't reserve them EVERY night. Study the book, the areas with lots of camps listed, take your chances.
Not as many folks on the river later in the season. Wish I was goin!


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## Pinchecharlie (Jul 27, 2017)

Yeah we've done that before is why she's apprehensive. The challenge so far has been that's there are only so many reservable sites within certain distances and if it's only a request it makes it challenging to know your next day? You know? So if your request is denied then you go another 5 miles and your 2nd day was granted now you have a short day. Just a bit confusing for me lol. It's OK though worse problems to have. I have two party members really want to know exact sites where iam a bit more willing to wing it. Of course I have a track record of full campsites and long days


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

> So if your request is denied then you go another 5 miles and your 2nd day was granted now you have a short day.


Yes and then your short day you have more time in camp and you play horseshoes, bocci, cook on the DO, read, nap, etc.



> I have two party members really want to know exact sites where iam a bit more willing to wing it. Of course I have a track record of full campsites and long days


You are still the TL and this is still the Main. Tell them you will have a couple sites reserved, and a general plan for a couple sites.
And getting those sites is incumbent on getting out of camp early and getting on the water to get to those non-reservable sites. If they or you don't want to roll that early or push that hard, be more Zen about it and take what you get.

The other nice thing about non-reserved sites is that you could take a spontaneous layover.


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## BenSlaughter (Jun 16, 2017)

Does anyone know what the gauge at Corn Creek is reading? I'm just curious. I know the flow is ~2k I'm just wondering how far below zero that is, zero being ~3400.

I guess I could email the ranger...


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

Saw another post from a few days ago, IIRC it was then 13" below the ramp.


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## Pinchecharlie (Jul 27, 2017)

It's really low huh?


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## BenSlaughter (Jun 16, 2017)

Last year we put in on 8\31 and it was at just about zero.
So it's already significantly lower. The graph does kinda flattens out this time a year.


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## Pinchecharlie (Jul 27, 2017)

So should I be concerned at all? Lol. Boney can be as hard as juicy for me sometimes really! Yahaha....hey man if you wanna jump into the large group size therrs obviously room? Pm if you want but you have to be trip leader lol!


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

Consider that there's still flow in the river. 2,000cfs is still 2,000cfs. Similar flow as the MF Salmon average in late July (when it's moderate/low but not "low water MFS"), or like the Gallatin in early May.


Unless you really know a river, I'd much prefer to discuss/compare CFS than foot gauge (or ramp gauge)

YT vid of the Main at 2,000cfs in mid-Sept 2012..also smokey. Sorta awkward to watch as it appears to be sped up about 1.5x, but good idea of the flow




Tell me this doesn't look like fun??!!!


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## BenSlaughter (Jun 16, 2017)

I shuuuure do love that river.
And low water is better than high, in my opinion. 
The inverse is true, for me, on the Middle Fork...


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

I sure do love the Main as well. EVERYONE wants the MF, (and now apparently the Main more and more) but if I had a choice, I'd pick the Main 9 times out of 10.
Haven't seen it at low-low water, but have seen it from 1.6-4.6


I'd much rather kayak the MF than raft it.


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## jge1 (Aug 10, 2014)

I did the Salmon in September at about 2Kcfs (first time I ever ran a boat) and Bailey had a nice-sized hole, right at the bottom of the tongue, that apparently forms only at very specific flows. Might've flipped me, except TL got hung up trying to do right-side sneak, so we did an accidental scout while helping him.


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## Pinchecharlie (Jul 27, 2017)

Nice to know!!


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## cnalder (Jul 7, 2016)

At low flows all rapids are easy boat scouts although it’s worth stopping to look at blacks creek. Five mile, split rock, Ludwig, vinegar are the standouts with low flows IMO. I actually like the main in Late August more than the MFS for more solitude. MFS just has so many people. 
Get the river maps guide, it’ll be helpful and look at whitewatercampsites.com for camps.


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## Idagal (Jul 15, 2021)

Pinchecharlie said:


> Dumb question. If you reserve a camp does that mean you HAVE to camp there? For instance theres only two small reserve camps on our day one milage but there's one I'd like to have first come. Does that mean I gotta not reserve one and risk it? Ect ect on down the river?


What sites are you thinking of camping at?


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

Charlie, great chatting with you on Friday. I hope you have an amazing trip!!


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## Hoomalimali (Aug 19, 2021)

MT4Runner said:


> Consider that there's still flow in the river. 2,000cfs is still 2,000cfs. Similar flow as the MF Salmon average in late July (when it's moderate/low but not "low water MFS"), or like the Gallatin in early May.
> 
> 
> Unless you really know a river, I'd much prefer to discuss/compare CFS than foot gauge (or ramp gauge)
> ...


Terrific, thanks for sharing!


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