# Yellow Jackets on Main Salmon 2014



## Wadeinthewater (Mar 22, 2009)

They were not awful last week, but the weather was cool and rainy. We had sunshine at T-bone and they were annoying at lunch.


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## cataraftgirl (Jun 5, 2009)

We launch on Saturday, 6/28. My group went about this time last year and had no issues at all with them. I've been doing the MS for over ten years, and never saw/heard of the YJ issues that were reported last summer. Fingers & toes crossed that it was a fluke? I will report back when I get home from the trip.


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## BlueTurf (Mar 9, 2013)

I floated the Main from 6/15 until 6/22. As another poster said it was rainy and cool at the beginning of the week. Once it warmed up the bees and yellow jackets were out but not bad IMO. It will probably get worse as the summer heats up. Haney (at least I think that is what it was called) had mosquitos pretty bad.


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## rockmonkey (May 3, 2011)

I got off the river on the 21st and saw not a one. Couple of skeeters every now and then but overall a bugfree trip. 


Sent from my iPhone using Mountain Buzz


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## Sembob (Feb 27, 2014)

Maybe last year wasn't so much a fluke as it had to do with no winter kill or something. I would say a high point in a cycle. I remember them being real bad in 97 as well. Not necessarily on the Salmon but all over, as was the case last year. I would be surprised to see a repeat of that. It was pretty brutal. On our Main trip last year we took a couple of those fake paper nests or hives. We put them in the kitchen and everyone was surprised how few if any were in there with us. Outside of the kitchen area it was bad and everyone got stung several times. Funny though as our trip progressed the hornets or whatever they were kind of tapered off and gave way to these biting flies. They would bite the hell out of my ankles and were relentless even mid river. I would rather deal with the wasps or whatever they were. 


Jim


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## duct tape (Aug 25, 2009)

Cataraftgirl, are you back? Trip report on YJ's, rapids ,etc would be appreciated. 

Any other updates?

Thx

- Jon


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## Kickinback (Jun 19, 2014)

Just got off the river on July 4th. Yellow jacket were not a problem.


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## cataraftgirl (Jun 5, 2009)

duct tape said:


> Cataraftgirl, are you back? Trip report on YJ's, rapids ,etc would be appreciated.
> 
> Any other updates?
> 
> ...


I just got home today. We launched 6/28 and took out 7/5. The river was 3.5 ft. when we launched and about 2.2 ft. when we finished. 3.5 is the highest I've ever done. We moved fast for the first two days, and were able to do three layover days. I got bounced off my seat (but not off the boat) in Five Mile & Elkhorn (got up close & personal with the Elephant Rock). Other than than that I was good. Our trip leader almost got pitched out in Big Mallard. He led the way on the left/traditional line, but the hole was big & nasty. He managed to avoid a flip and waved us off. The rest of us hauled ass to the right and made a clean run past the monster hole. Chittam & Vinegar were fine at just over 2 feet on the last day. We started the trip in rain and ended in blazing sun & heat. No problems with yellow jackets at all. Some of us got a few mosquito bites, but that was it. The ranger at Corn Creek told us that Mackay Bar was open to boaters if the open sign was out. We stopped briefly to check it out. They were friendly enough and let us refill water, but that was it. No store, no ice, no bathroom for boaters. They made it clear in a nice way that they don't serve boaters any more. Get your water, ice, beer, soda pop, T-shirts, and ice cream at Buckskin Bills. The trip was great & we had a good time as always on the MS.


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## wshutt (Jun 20, 2013)

Thanks for the info cataraftgirl. I have been telling my group that Mackay is off the tour this year after last year's incidents with rafters but didn't know they had completely shut the store. Figure Heinz & Barbara deserve all the floater business anyway. 
Will be my first time on the little red cat down that stretch and have to say I'm going to be hard pressed not to get bumped off the seat in a few places  So you couldn't run the left bank in Big Mallard at 3.5ft? Interesting, we have run that side at all flows that I remember, but maybe I just don't remember well!


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## cataraftgirl (Jun 5, 2009)

wshutt said:


> Thanks for the info cataraftgirl. I have been telling my group that Mackay is off the tour this year after last year's incidents with rafters but didn't know they had completely shut the store. Figure Heinz & Barbara deserve all the floater business anyway.
> Will be my first time on the little red cat down that stretch and have to say I'm going to be hard pressed not to get bumped off the seat in a few places  So you couldn't run the left bank in Big Mallard at 3.5ft? Interesting, we have run that side at all flows that I remember, but maybe I just don't remember well!


I don't think it was unrunnable, but a big & nasty hole along the left bank in addition to the monster hole. A lot to tangle with according to our boater who ran that line. Another boater I talked with at Corn Creek told me that his friend had run it left the week before at about the same water level and he got ejected. We have always run it left, up to 2.5 feet with no issues, but I was more than happy to get the "wave off" and skirt the hole to the right. It worked out well for all of us. This was my first whitewater in my new Sotar raft since switching from the cat. Now I row from a dry box instead of a seat. I gotta do some work on my foot bar to make a better "toe hold" so I'll stay locked in better. Have fun on the MS, and don't bother with Mackay Bar. I understand the change from a business perspective, but it was sad to say goodbye to one of our long standing ritual stops for cube ice & milkshakes


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## wshutt (Jun 20, 2013)

So you are no longer cataraftgirl! Of course, for all we know out here in internetland you could have always been a 50 year old guy with a full beard who rows an 18 foot self bailer ..... 
Just checked my notes on Big Mallard and I did forget: 6ft left, 1.9ft left BUT 4ft right tongue, so there you have it. I'm sure by the time we get on (2 weeks) it will be back to the left bank run.


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## cataraftgirl (Jun 5, 2009)

wshutt said:


> So you are no longer cataraftgirl! Of course, for all we know out here in internetland you could have always been a 50 year old guy with a full beard who rows an 18 foot self bailer .....
> Just checked my notes on Big Mallard and I did forget: 6ft left, 1.9ft left BUT 4ft right tongue, so there you have it. I'm sure by the time we get on (2 weeks) it will be back to the left bank run.


I still own a 10 foot fishing cat (the one that started it all), so I can legally keep my name. Who knows, I might get another cat someday???

We had discussed Mallard, and felt like left was always the preferred line at all water levels. The guide books seem to down play a right run, except for very high water when it's all pretty much washed out. So that was our plan, until the most experienced (20 years) person in the group waved us off. Man were we glad he did after seeing the hole and hearing he & his passenger tell of their harrowing near miss.

My out of seat experience at Five Mile was due to my own inattention. The Elkhorn out of seat fun was all about .......where the heck is that giant elephant rock that I'm supposed to pull around????? OH.....there it is. CRAP! Hi Mr. Elephant. Let me just slide right off your side for fun. I'll just blame it all on the learning curve of my cat to raft switch  Yeah.....that's it.


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## wshutt (Jun 20, 2013)

*Cataraft girl - out of seat experiences*

There is something that lurks in Five Mile I have that on my radar from previous trips and at higher water a nasty lateral coming in from the left on the curve; I swear our cat stood on end in that one - as passenger it was all I could do to hang on. I will be watching out for 5 mile for sure. As for Elkhorn I am so terrified of that big hole having seen it at higher water we have never done anything other than a hard right bank. Chittam has always bothered me too....... 
Guess I have a lot to worry about - need to get the big girl pants on and just do it!


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## cataraftgirl (Jun 5, 2009)

wshutt said:


> There is something that lurks in Five Mile I have that on my radar from previous trips and at higher water a nasty lateral coming in from the left on the curve; I swear our cat stood on end in that one - as passenger it was all I could do to hang on. I will be watching out for 5 mile for sure. As for Elkhorn I am so terrified of that big hole having seen it at higher water we have never done anything other than a hard right bank. Chittam has always bothered me too.......
> Guess I have a lot to worry about - need to get the big girl pants on and just do it!


Chittam wasn't too bad by the end of our trip, as it was down to about 2.2-2.3 feet by then. We entered center and pulled hard right to avoid the wall crash. Vinegar has always been my nemesis in the past, and this time it was totally fun. We did 25 miles on day two of the trip, with all of the major rapids. Black Creek, Bailey, Five Mile, Split Rock, Big Mallard, and Elkhorn. That was a physically & emotionally tiring day.

This was the first trip I've done where I got mosquito bites. Just a few, but still annoying. Not enough for me to break out the bug spray, but then I really hate bug spray. It was quite damp at the start of our trip, so maybe that was it. There were the usual number of yellow jackets. No swarms, no bites, just a few soda pop can/coffee mug swimmers. No bears and no snake were seen during the trip. By the time we took out, the temps. were up to the upper 90s, maybe even triple digits? The beaches were starting to come out nicely by the end of the trip.

The rest of July should be just about perfect, water level wise. Bring shade, and float early to avoid the heat & wind. Have fun.


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## duct tape (Aug 25, 2009)

Took off today so I guess I'll answer my own question. 

Yellow jackets were pretty bad at Corn Ck the night before the put-in (7/20) and were maybe worse at Carey Ck today. All told I got stung 6 times, mainly while cooking, or derigging today. They were moderate at California Ck yesterday, esp on the east end near the rocks. And were much less bothersome at Lantz, Haynie, and Rabbit. 

Water level was great, as was our group. Lots of good runs and plenty of big hits on the meat lines. Perhaps the biggest one for us was surprisingly the wave at Lugwig, not a commonly mentioned rapid but big air for the bow and stern riders. No major issues except the downpour mid week which caught several of us sleeping outside w/o tents. And the windstorm the next night where a tree fell in our camp (Haynie).

On the way home and sad to be off the river. 

PS. Nice shuttle service by Blackadar Boating.


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## Yukon77 (Jan 30, 2013)

Cataraftgirl,

Thanks for the trip report. Now that the new Sotar raft is broken in, can you share your feelings about the change in boats? Many thanks.


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## duct tape (Aug 25, 2009)

Also, an evaluation of the effectiveness of traps on YJ's, who apparently have been reading Mtn Buzz. In a word, poor. 

The rescue traps caught very few - using the "west" version on amazon which I think has a meat bait. The bucket of soapy water below suspended chicken legs contained only 8 after a full night/ morning. 

They seemed to prefer sweet stuff, and, unfortunately, us, over the meat. I never got around to the best idea from our group - dipping the chicken in the cobbler.


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## cataraftgirl (Jun 5, 2009)

Yukon77 said:


> Cataraftgirl,
> 
> Thanks for the trip report. Now that the new Sotar raft is broken in, can you share your feelings about the change in boats? Many thanks.


Here's the scoop on the Sotar 14 SL & the change from the cat.

Practical differences - Way easier to rig. Way easier to load each morning in camp. I've cut my strap supply by about 60%. Perfect size raft for me. Way easier to get in & out of the boat with a bad leg, especially with the diminishing tubes. I carried my same gear load from the cat.....two dry boxes, 105 QT cooler, plus a moderate amount of group gear.

Performance differences - While not as fast & nimble as a cat, I was able to move it without much trouble. It's definitely not a tank. I do have to get used to setting up a little farther ahead than the cat, because last minute coarse changes are a bit harder. However, the last minute right hand maneuver at Big Mallard went well. It's a lot smoother through the big water & waves than the cat. No bouncing around like the cat. With the diminishing tubes, I still got wet from big waves, so that was nice. A front passenger would definitely get wet.

Next big trip is the Middle Fork in September. We shall see how it handles the low water. My rafting buddy claims that rafts get stuck a lot less than cats. Based on my experience with getting stuck in my cat, that seems true. But it could be "user error." The MF will be the true test of how this raft handles.


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## cmharris (Apr 30, 2013)

*Bees/Hornets/Yellowjackets*

Took off 7/24. Compared to last year the population was much smaller and overall not difficult to deal with. We were a small group (1 boat/2 people), stayed at one reserable camp and avoided sweet things so that may have had some impact on the yellowjacket numbers. I don't have enough experience with the river to know if there were more or less than normal but they didn't detract from our enjoyment of the river or require extreme measures like tenting the kitchen. Also, I think they were less agressive compared to last year which made a difference.


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## salmonjammer (Dec 14, 2011)

*reserved camp*

We put on the 10th and got off the 16th. We were a group of 20, so we stayed at the reservable camps as often as possible. Had issues with yellow jackets at Lantz, (only not reservable) and sand flys at Ground Hog, otherwise not bad.
Did switch from a 14' Hysides boat to a 16' Sotar Legand. Biggest issue i found was we always overloaded the boat, cause we could! Did load Sotar up, but it was still easier to move back and forth across river.
Have a August 29 MF where we are using only cats. My experience with both so far is cats hang less than boats, more maneuverable and you can straddle rocks??  Interesting your experience the other way.


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## wildh2onriver (Jul 21, 2009)

I've owned both and currently row a 14' Sotar ST raft. It can carry up to 2000lbs with 1/3 ratio below water, whereas, the 16' legend with 25" tubes is rated for about 1500lbs. That means that the raft drafts slightly less then 7" at max load, and the Legend drafts slightly more than 8" at max load, and has about 25% less carrying capacity then the raft.

From my experience, the raft carries more weight and performs better under that weight than any cat I've owned. Especially in low water technical runs with gear loads.

Ymmv.


Sent from my iPhone using Mountain Buzz


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## cataraftgirl (Jun 5, 2009)

My friend has been running the MF at 1.5-2 feet for about 15 years, in both rafts and cats. I respect his opinion, but will find out myself in September. One thing I thought about when I switched from the cat to the raft was the possibility of carrying more gear/ passengers than I did on my cat. Ultimately, what goes on my boat is in my control, so I can keep from overloading.


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## salmonjammer (Dec 14, 2011)

*low water*

So, what does your friend prefer?? We are thinking of going with one person / cat, very little gear, even thinking of no beer!!!! (whiskey instead!) Have done it at 1.87 in a raft and had LOTS of problems, mainly jumping in and out to get off rocks, and by the time you are back in being stuck again! one advantage of the cat, just stand up, push off and back into the seat.


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## cataraftgirl (Jun 5, 2009)

salmonjammer said:


> So, what does your friend prefer?? We are thinking of going with one person / cat, very little gear, even thinking of no beer!!!! (whiskey instead!) Have done it at 1.87 in a raft and had LOTS of problems, mainly jumping in and out to get off rocks, and by the time you are back in being stuck again! one advantage of the cat, just stand up, push off and back into the seat.


He swears I'll get stuck a lot less in the raft. Like I said.....I will see what happens. He prefers a raft, and rarely gets stuck. I've done about 5 low water trips. All in a cat, and all involved a variety of get stuck episodes. We fly in to Indian Creek, so we bring anything we want. We don't pack any different than we do on any other river trip.


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## Yukon77 (Jan 30, 2013)

cataraftgirl said:


> Here's the scoop on the Sotar 14 SL & the change from the cat.
> 
> Practical differences - Way easier to rig. Way easier to load each morning in camp. I've cut my strap supply by about 60%. Perfect size raft for me. Way easier to get in & out of the boat with a bad leg, especially with the diminishing tubes. I carried my same gear load from the cat.....two dry boxes, 105 QT cooler, plus a moderate amount of group gear.
> 
> ...


 Many thanks for the report


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## duct tape (Aug 25, 2009)

Back to Yellow Jackets...

One final comment. The Corn Creek ranger told us that the YJ's were only starting to get bad this time last year. She also said once they became much worse in August they had a very large number of cancellations (I can't recall number but it was impressively large and I'm guessing included both commercial and private boaters). 

I was very disappointed with the results of our trap using the buckets with soapy water with hanging bait (we used raw chicken). Especially after reading the reports of great success on this thread:
http://www.mountainbuzz.com/forums/f41/yellow-jackets-how-to-deal-with-them-50033.html 

Re: Rescue traps - also only average success for us but it's possible we may not have set them up correctly. I didn't watch but don't recall anyone adding any water to the trap which someone mentions on this thread:

http://www.mountainbuzz.com/forums/f42/main-salmon-yellowjackets-49788.html

So maybe the Rescue traps are worth another go.


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## tmacc (Sep 6, 2009)

Are the Rescue brand trap you're referring to, the reusable ones or the disposable ones? 
There are just two of us going, so we usually stay at smaller or no name camps, but I want to be prepared.


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## duct tape (Aug 25, 2009)

We took these, but only tried them out one day and I'm thinking forgot to add the water, so maybe they deserve another go.

My plan was to not reuse them, and carried one for each camp night.

Amazon.com : Rescue YJTD-DB12-W Disposable Yellow Jacket Trap, West of the Rockies : Insect Traps : Patio, Lawn & Garden

Reviews on Amazon are mixed. One says works best in the sun.


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## cmharris (Apr 30, 2013)

duct tape said:


> Back to Yellow Jackets...
> 
> One final comment. The Corn Creek ranger told us that the YJ's were only starting to get bad this time last year.


This was not my experience. The yellowjackets were bad during a July 3 trip last year. Much worse than during our July 19 trip this year. Concerning cancellations, I'm not surprised. It was epic last year.


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## brasscap (Jul 12, 2009)

Is it possible that these traps (homemade bucket or the commercial Rescue type) are making the issue worse..?..

Not necessarily from a breeding point, but maybe drawing them out of the forest from deeper in?


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## tmacc (Sep 6, 2009)

Thanks duct tape,
Home Depot carries that trap. We'll stock up before heading out. We're thinking of taking some of the soda bottle homemade traps as well.


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## duct tape (Aug 25, 2009)

brasscap said:


> Is it possible that these traps (homemade bucket or the commercial Rescue type) are making the issue worse..?..
> 
> Not necessarily from a breeding point, but maybe drawing them out of the forest from deeper in?


Who knows? But i can say they swarmed us at several spots as soon as we arrived, and got worse once we started cooking. And we tried the traps only one day.


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## tmacc (Sep 6, 2009)

We have used these Bottle Tops to keep the river from diluting our canned beer, but now I'm thinking they will be helpful in keeping YJ out as well.

Amazon.com : Bottle Top Cold Beverage Koozie, Set of 12 : Sports Water Bottles : Sports & Outdoors


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## patrick l (Mar 8, 2012)

I went late August last year and brought a screened in shelter and traps, neither worked worth a shit. In fact, we didn't use the shelter once as there were more bee's in it than outside. All the hype leading up to our trip last year was overrated in my opinion, they really were not that bad, I would say corn creek was annoying but that's it. Going again in couple of weeks and won't be bringing any of that stuff.


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## lawlessr (Aug 6, 2013)

I was on same trip as Patrick. We brought a guy with a badminton racket...that seemed to help. Set up the netted tent, then send in badminton guy after a couple hours. Cook outside tent. All good.


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## Sembob (Feb 27, 2014)

Last year we used those fake paper wasp nest. Supposedly yellow jackets are territorial and avoid taken areas. We put two in the kitchen and it seemed to work great. We also set up some of those traps shown above and they filled up with YJ's. 


Jim


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