# Might get me a Pack Raft



## Zwo_ (Jul 23, 2013)

So, I have been kayaking for a long time. Been rafting for a long time too. I have sorta lost my passion for it over the years. Now I see these pack raft things and they have me interested. They seem like a great way to explore the wilderness and see new places and mess around in boats. My question though- are they the real deal and will a former devotee of the steeps be satisfied with the performance of them, or will they just seem like a pool toy? Any real boater into them? Or are they just for folks who never learned to kayak


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## Gluck (Mar 18, 2013)

I guess I'm not a real boater. For me, packrafts opened up the boating thing by packing small and being light. I'd not have a boat at all if it weren't for that. 

Seems like the limits of the boats are still being explored. Videos like this might help to start answering your questions. 
Show Up and Blow Up: Mexico - YouTube

Spray skirts, whitewater decks, knee straps, back bands, cargo fly… Some mods people are making for whitewater are available from Alpacka. Many of the mods are DIY based on perceived needs of the paddlers. I've seen some prototype boats that are further blurring the line between inflatable raft and hardshell.

My wild guess is that one should probably spend less time trying to make a packraft into a kayak. Instead one should explore the genre for its own merits. Packable. Capable. 

Notes from my limited experience: Packrafts are more stable, less "carve-able", more buoyant. Rolling takes a modified technique and is a bit harder due to the stability. (Kayak guys can't seem to jump in one and roll it immediately.) Cargo fly equipped rafts have amazing capacity for multi-day gear. (I've had 6 days of crap loaded in mine.) My packraft has encouraged me to go where I wouldn't have gone before. 

Definitely a great way to mess around in boats!

--Greg


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## BarryDingle (Mar 13, 2008)

Well put,Greg. Packrafting is not about being a "real boater." Its about exploration. Not first descents type stuff(usually) but more about getting to wilderness and rivers that most other boats can't get to. Unless you're Dan Mcain.

I'm new to PR'ing so have limited experience in it yet. 2weeks ago I drove out to the Olympic peninsula and broke it in on some mostly class II sections on the Hoh river and upper Queets. I started out kayaking(raft now mostly) so have some hard boat experience. That being said,I was really surprised with how well it handled. I was catching every eddy and and ferrying with ease. They don't handle as well when you backstroke though,due to the big butt design. But not a big deal. Im pretty amazed with the design of them-they're very cool little tools. From the cargo fly to the skirts to the weight and pack ability....very cool.

think the biggest draw to Packrafting is the exploring aspect of it. If you're going to get one and truly utilize what makes Packrafting so much fun and unique,you HAVE to incorporate the hiking side of boating. They're meant to be lugged into the wilderness. Half the fun is trying to find/create routes,and rivers,where you can hike in and boat out....the upper Queets that I did was pure primitive wilderness that most people can't even access without fording the river first. I was able to inflate my boat,ferry across,then pack it up and hike for miles on a trail with no one there but bears and elk. Then boat back down,on a section of river that very few get to see,back to my truck and camp. 

You get the idea....plan on incorporating hiking to your boating regime. If you're just doing roadside stuff then I wouldn't get one.

My .02. I'd elaborate more but got to get to work...


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## Zwo_ (Jul 23, 2013)

That video is awesome. Those guys are good paddlers! thanks for the info


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## -k- (Jul 15, 2005)

I boated this spring with a guy in a pack raft on Gore Creek at moderate flows and echo how nimble it seemed. He could hit the same lines slide over holes and catch the same eddies. Biggest limitation seem to be punching standing waves.


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## Zwo_ (Jul 23, 2013)

Didn't mean to offend with the phrase "real boater"....but, there is a certain time investment required to be able to truly call yourself a 'kayaker'- (which I no longer am, now I am just a guy with a kayak) however, people can hop in a ducky or pack raft and be running stuff with some degree of success right off the bat. 

I am excited about the possibilities that the Pack raft option opens up. Much more exciting to me than a SUP or cataraft (the other old man options).


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## slickhorn (Dec 15, 2005)

well, I'll side step the whole "real boater" issue .... 

but I'm getting one, waiting on it right now. If anyone is interested in WA trips in the north cascades, olympic peninsula, or gifford pinchot, hit me up!

I love self-support boating. Dunno how much raft-packing I'll do, but a 5lb boat sounds ideal for stuff like the Chetco, or low water OWyhee type trips.


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## mikesee (Aug 4, 2012)

A good boater will be satisfied with a packraft most of the time. A newb boater will get away with stuff they probably shouldn't.

The only people that seem disappointed are steep creekers in steep creeks looking for a point-and-shoot hardshell experience, or big water types at peak flows. Neither of those are within the design intent of packrafts, though that is slowly changing with each evolutionary iteration of the genre.


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## Kendrick (Jul 8, 2010)

FWIW, me and the lady are looking at Alpacka's Explorer 42. This is more about getting her on the water with me than anything. I won't be hitting up Gore with her anytime soon (like, ever), but time on an easy river with her is the goal I have in mind. Remote runs that require lots of hiking and light-packing (or a helicopter, if we hardshell it in New Zealand) are enticing but not on the agenda for the first couple of seasons. 

Just sorting out her gear list right now and our budget. Alpacka truly knows their stuff when it comes to packrafts. For my end, I'll just need a slightly longer paddle. 

If you're going for the single-person setup, I'd definitely consider the outfitting they have catered to that. There's video of people doing rolls in packrafts; if you're new to the kayak roll, I can't imagine trying to learn one with a packraft though. It's going take a really powerful roll or some pulled muscles trying to learn one in it, I imagine. Still though, the spraydeck (single-person setup only) would be nice, even without a roll.


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## catflipper (Jun 22, 2011)

What a sweet technology! They are starting to look like kayaks. Interesting to see where this goes. Dudes must drink a lot of bootie beers!


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## Zwo_ (Jul 23, 2013)

thats what I have been thinking too...they seem to be awesome technology


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## Micah Ruth (Jun 28, 2012)

I am not sure what I'd call myself (in terms of being a real boater or not), but since I've gotten the packraft, it's enabled me to have a great time running some amazing rivers. In the year since I've gotten my Alpaca, I've run the Gunnison Gorge, Browns Canyon, Westwater Canyon, the Upper Salt Wilderness run, the Gila Box, and a never before rafted river in Lake Clark National Park in Alaska. Not knowing the difference between the packraft and a hardshell, the packraft seems to handle everything I throw at it. Next up is the Rogue River wilderness and the Middle Fork of the Salmon. Not too shabby for a "pool toy"..


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## David Spiegel (Sep 26, 2007)

Definitely get a packraft! They are tons of fun, get you into beautiful places, and are actually pretty awesome for running whitewater. I would like to think I'm a "real boater," and I still have tons of fun in the pool toy. 

The real question is whether or not to get a spray deck, cargo deck, etc. I just have the basic boat with no thigh braces, skirt, or cargo zip. I kind of wish I had braces and a skirt. Not sure about the cargo zip. Either way, it is definitely a great investment. 

Attached a photo of a friend paddling the basic Yukon Yak in Montana.


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## mikesee (Aug 4, 2012)

David Spiegel said:


> Definitely get a packraft! They are tons of fun, get you into beautiful places, and are actually pretty awesome for running whitewater. I would like to think I'm a "real boater," and I still have tons of fun in the pool toy.
> 
> The real question is whether or not to get a spray deck, cargo deck, etc. I just have the basic boat with no thigh braces, skirt, or cargo zip. I kind of wish I had braces and a skirt. Not sure about the cargo zip. Either way, it is definitely a great investment.
> 
> Attached a photo of a friend paddling the basic Yukon Yak in Montana.


Awesome pic. Where?

And, did we meet at the BV playpark a few weeks ago? You were looping the shiznit out of the top wave, while I was, um, flailing in a packraft!


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## David Spiegel (Sep 26, 2007)

Mike- Yeah, I ran into you in BV the other week. You were slaying it in the packraft! Surfing in that thing looked like a total blast. 

The pic is in Glacier NP. It's some random roadside drop on McDonald creek right on the going to the sun road. We were driving past it and couldn't resist trying it out.

Also- I ran into your buddies in the middle of the Bridger-Teton Wilderness in the North Buffalo Fork valley!

David


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## cayo 2 (Apr 20, 2007)

I 'm looking at the Denali with rhe zipper compartments...tried doing that type boating and exploration with duckies...did some ...but a6-8 lb.boat would be soooo much easier than 32-35 lb....what pump do you use?compact? Is there any inflation or padding in the floor or just fabric?...,

not / to sound like a broken record but you Pack raft dudes ought to check out Belize and Chiapas for jungle carry in runs (www.mayanwhitewater.com) ...Sibun Gorge! There are harder drops and it has been hardshell kayaked at least once, contrary to the write up, still awesome for pristine tropical wilderness run that can be 3 with portaging....carry farther in on Swasey and South Stann Creeks deep in the jaguar sanctuary ..carry above Vaca or down from Che Chem Ha...2nd D Privassion there are ways out without dealing with the dam...hike down to the base of 1600 ft. Hidden Valley Falls (tallest in C A) and paddle untouched wilderness out...etc.....Chiapas is bigger and generally better and there is a lot of beta waiting to br utilized that did not exist 8 to 15 years ago when i went there a bunch....oh yeah Mullins if you want a long day of overnight with lots of 3-4 and a committing remote 4 plus gorge....


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## cayo 2 (Apr 20, 2007)

Copper Canyon ditto ...substantially biigger canyon system than the Grand ..no permits ...www.SierraRios.org


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## mikesee (Aug 4, 2012)

David Spiegel said:


> Mike- Yeah, I ran into you in BV the other week. You were slaying it in the packraft! Surfing in that thing looked like a total blast.
> 
> The pic is in Glacier NP. It's some random roadside drop on McDonald creek right on the going to the sun road. We were driving past it and couldn't resist trying it out.
> 
> ...


Serendipity! Forrest's pics/vid/words from that trip are here:

Forrest McCarthy: Du'Mor' — Packrafting Wyoming's Wildest Corner

Bummed I missed it.


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## DownRiver_ut (May 11, 2009)

I just got into pack rafting this year as a way to combine outdoor sports and add some flavor to my travel menu. Caught a couple of guys in AK last fall packrafting and just knew I had to try. This last April I scored a legit Permit from GCNP to hike in at Little Colorado and floated down to Hance Creek and hiked back out Grandview. And did it all on a 4 day weekend!








Typical Rig - Gear across bow. Depending on needs you can cross sling or length wise as well.










I've got a fair amount of river experience - Yaks, Rafts and few summers on a 37' S-Rig. But like each of those crafts this is an experience unto itself. For me it's the mix that makes the salad. Since the Big Ditch this spring we've pulled off a couple of over nighters and have a bike-raft-bike set up in 2 weeks (hope the water holds). 

As for the rafts - I have two Alpacka's- a Yukon and a Denail. Both have skirts and I've glued a couple of mini-D's for load carrying. (pretty typical I think) With inflation bags and 3-piece paddles my rigs are just over 5lbs each and pack down to the size of a 3 man tent. They paddle pretty clean - no keels or edges really so they feel like a Yak. I ran Tanner, Unkar and Hance (x3) in my Denail - Didn't swim anything that weekend.


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## BoilermakerU (Mar 13, 2009)

BarryDingle said:


> ....plan on incorporating hiking to your boating regime. If you're just doing roadside stuff then I wouldn't get one....


That's certainly the original intent and a great reason to get one, but I still want one even for roadside stuff. Would give me a low water option for when things start drying up and I don't have time to go hiking and looking for water. And it just looks FUN, and easier than kayaking (which I don't do).

I'm a rafter myself, and my mini-max has me looking at smaller and smaller stuff because of the fun factor and the increased options it gives me. This would increase those even further I would think!

Can I get a frame on that? What size oars? LOL


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