# Chama River Closed - 5/19/2022



## TJP (Nov 20, 2020)

FYI: Just got a call from the Taos BLM with a notification the Chama will close effective 5/19 due to stage 3 fire restrictions.


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## agrankin (Aug 31, 2017)

TJP said:


> FYI: Just got a call from the Taos BLM with a notification the Chama will close effective 5/19 due to stage 3 fire restrictions.


Shit. Was planning to float the day run this weekend. Closure includes the put in Chavez Canyon to Big Eddy?


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## TJP (Nov 20, 2020)

Below is an email I got a bit ago:

"Santa Fe National Forest is entering Stage 3 Fire Restrictions on May 19, 2022. As a result, all 2022 Rio Chama river permits will be canceled and refunded on a month by month basis beginning May 19, 2022. The cancelation of your permit and refunds will be automatic. The hope is that the monsoons will return and the forest and the Rio Chama will reopen in late July or August, although this is not guaranteed."

I'd call the Taos BLM before heading out for verification.


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## agrankin (Aug 31, 2017)

TJP said:


> Below is an email I got a bit ago:
> 
> "Santa Fe National Forest is entering Stage 3 Fire Restrictions on May 19, 2022. As a result, all 2022 Rio Chama river permits will be canceled and refunded on a month by month basis beginning May 19, 2022. The cancelation of your permit and refunds will be automatic. The hope is that the monsoons will return and the forest and the Rio Chama will reopen in late July or August, although this is not guaranteed."
> 
> I'd call the Taos BLM before heading out for verification.


Thanks. The fires were are experiencing are total catastrophe.


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## Inertiaman (Jun 4, 2021)

I believe Big Eddy is within the Santa Fe National Forest, so it would be included in the closure. FWIW the closure is forest-wide, not just the river. All trails, trailheads, parking lots, etc in the Santa Fe and Carson national forests are closed.

I haven't seen the "order" PDF yet but here's a news report:
Santa Fe, Cibola, Carson National Forests announce closures effective Thursday


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## agrankin (Aug 31, 2017)

Inertiaman said:


> I believe Big Eddy is within the Santa Fe National Forest, so it would be included in the closure. FWIW the closure is forest-wide, not just the river. All trails, trailheads, parking lots, etc in the Santa Fe and Carson national forests are closed.
> 
> I haven't seen the "order" PDF yet but here's a news report:
> Santa Fe, Cibola, Carson National Forests announce closures effective Thursday


Yep -- Big Eddy is USDA FS. The website shows it is pending closure. 



Santa Fe - Big Eddy Boat Take-out



Dang.


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## jsheglund (Feb 20, 2021)

Yep bummer, I had two June trips scheduled. Looks like they are going to roll the permits over to next year. Bummer, but I get it. Fires are popping up everywhere, everyday.


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## Therealjohnjohnmiller (May 5, 2021)

Snagged a permit for this weekend as the chamas officially reopened!


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## agrankin (Aug 31, 2017)

Therealjohnjohnmiller said:


> Snagged a permit for this weekend as the chamas officially reopened!


Did you get it off rec.gov? called BLM?


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## Therealjohnjohnmiller (May 5, 2021)

wreck.gov


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## agrankin (Aug 31, 2017)

Sorry - misspelled wreck.gov


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## Inertiaman (Jun 4, 2021)

I also grabbed one. As soon as I saw the news reports of the forest reopening, I started watching the permit page, and sure enough on the 26th a handful of them showed up.
A couple things to keep in mind this weekend:

dam will release through noon Monday rather than noon Sunday (at least this was the pattern in prior years when 4th fell on a weekend).
forecast is pretty wet


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## agrankin (Aug 31, 2017)

I checked the flows. Marginal but hopefully that is because they haven't been releasing recreational volumes due to closure. We are headed to Montana and Idaho on 7/5 otherwise I would have tried to grab one of those permits. 

Enjoy!


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## Inertiaman (Jun 4, 2021)

Last weekend release was 600cfs and they may be increasing when inflows to El Vado rise (which the weekend rains may help).
So I'm assuming 600 with a chance of few 100 cfs bump higher. More than enough to enjoy.


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## agrankin (Aug 31, 2017)

Chama above 800 cfs is awesome.


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## jsheglund (Feb 20, 2021)

Recreational flows don’t start until mid July


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## Inertiaman (Jun 4, 2021)

jsheglund said:


> Recreational flows don’t start until mid July


I realize the BLM defines their "release season" permits as July 15-Sept 15, but the Bureau of Reclamation states:

_"Reclamation targets 400-600 cfs for rafting during the weekends during July, August and September when possible, given the needs of downstream water users"_

If you look back through prior years flow data, there's a conspicuous alignment of releases with weekends, even in June and early July. The July 4 weekend, in particular, shows three day 500cfs+ releases for the 5 or 6 past years I checked.

There are a couple instances of June weekends without 400+ releases, but seem relatively rare.

I don't think there's _any_ risk of seeing flows below 400cfs this weekend, and highly unlikely it will be below 500-600.


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## Therealjohnjohnmiller (May 5, 2021)

I spoke with the BLM ranger and he confirmed that water will release Monday until noon and that it takes about 10-12 hours for the water to drop at big eddy.


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## wack (Jul 7, 2015)

Update from the Taos BLM. I had a 6/20/22 permit get cancelled and just asked about reissuing it next year. This was the response:
"Thanks for reaching out. 
Rio Chama permits that were cancelled within the Santa Fe National Forest Stage 3 Order (closure) - between Thursday May 19 and Friday, June 24, 2022 - will not be reissued.

Barry Weinstock"


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## TJP (Nov 20, 2020)

Well that’s a shame. I see how they’re in a bind too, it’s not like they started the fire…wait a second…

Guess I’ll be back in the scrum trying to pick up permits come spring.


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## jsheglund (Feb 20, 2021)

I'll have to investigate further. This is quoted directly from my cancelation email for my June date.

"The Bureau of Land Management (BLM) will institute a hold-over permit process for 2023. For those permits that the BLM cancels, we will be notifying permit holders of the canceled permits and how and when you will need to claim the 2023 permit for the same day of the week that you are currently scheduled."


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## Inertiaman (Jun 4, 2021)

Those of you who had May/June 2022 permits cancelled due to the fire closure, have you received any correspondence from the permit office regarding your holdover permit for 2023?

The notification of closure email mentioned that I would be "notified regarding how and when to claim the 2023 holdover permit." But I've heard nothing. The lottery for 2023 just started (ends on Jan 31) so it seems they would want the holdover permits all squared away.

EDIT: now I noticed post #19 above saying the permits won't be re-issued. Well that's a bummer. Seems odd to proactively state they are doing holdovers in the cancellation, and subsequently decide they won't do any.


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## jsheglund (Feb 20, 2021)

I haven't heard. Its shitty to issue an official correspondence offering a re-issue, but not put out any word if they did in fact renege on that...

I did see that there are some other changes coming this year too, assigned campsites being one of them, that doesn't excite me.


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## agrankin (Aug 31, 2017)

jsheglund said:


> I did see that there are some other changes coming this year too, assigned campsites being one of them, that doesn't excite me.


Interesting. Where did you see info on assigned campsites? While that may impact freedom and flexibility, I kind of like the comfort of certainty of assigned campsites will provide. I hate the scramble for sites, especially as you get down to the the no camping section of the river.


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## jsheglund (Feb 20, 2021)

agrankin said:


> Interesting. Where did you see info on assigned campsites? While that may impact freedom and flexibility, I kind of like the comfort of certainty of assigned campsites will provide. I hate the scramble for sites, especially as you get down to the the no camping section of the river.


Its in the notifications alert at the top of the rec.gov page 

Here are the contents of that alert

There will be some notable changes on the Rio Chama in 2023. 
1. The BLM Taos Field Office and Santa Fe National Forest have proposed an increase in the recreation fee for the Rio Chama River Permit from $5 per person to $10 per person. If this proposed fee increase meets BLM process
requirements and is approved by the BLM Northern New Mexico Resource Advisory Council (RAC), it will go into effect for permits issued in the 2023 float season.
Remember: Maximum Group size is 16 and you are required to pay the permit fee year-round. 
2. The BLM Taos Field Office and Santa Fe National Forest have determined that beginning the 2023 Release Season (16 Jul - 15 Sep) the BLM will be assigning campsites to Thursday, Friday and Saturday launches. Weekday Release
Season launches will be required to clear the Wilderness Section by Thursday afternoon.
Implementation of assigned campsites will: 
Provide the release season permit holders campsites without diminishing the river environment, quality of the wilderness experience or having to decrease permit numbers.
Reduce crowding at the launch site by ensuring each Thursday through Saturday launch has a campsite within or before the wilderness section, even if you launch later in the day. 
Provide the ability to enjoy the river, hike or lunch knowing the permit holder has a confirmed campsite on the first night.
Spread out the use of campsites, which will aid river managers in determining if and where new campsites need to be developed during the river management planning process.
Allow for campsites to be temporarily closed for protection of ground cover vegetation, riparian conditions, resource damage and the enhance impact monitoring. 
3. There are additional permit stipulations updates. It is the responsibility of the permit holder to read and ensure their group complies with regulations and permit stipulations. 
*Warning*: The Rio Chama has continued to experience large numbers of dogs per permit, not leashed or under control while on shore including at boat ramps and not being picked up after. This behavior is being closely monitored. If monitoring indicates that the impacts of dogs on the corridor continues to increase, to include harassment of wildlife or the public, the number of dogs per trip will restricted or dogs will be excluded all together in the future.


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## agrankin (Aug 31, 2017)

Thanks! Interesting that dogs are becoming a problem too...


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## Big Wave (6 mo ago)

Irresponsible dog owners about to close another river corridor to responsible dog owners.


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## jsheglund (Feb 20, 2021)

Last fall I was there and we floated by a ranger and he said my dog was required to wear a life jacket, which I didn't even have in possession (even though I own one, whoopsie). Thankfully the ranger didn't cite me, but when i got home i looked around and couldn't find that regulation anywhere. I do pick up after him and he's on a shock collar which keeps him very obedient. But i did pick up some dog shit that wasn't my dogs, and see some digging in the bank at one camp, so it's definitely happening.


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## jsheglund (Feb 20, 2021)

Inertiaman said:


> Those of you who had May/June 2022 permits cancelled due to the fire closure, have you received any correspondence from the permit office regarding your holdover permit for 2023?
> 
> The notification of closure email mentioned that I would be "notified regarding how and when to claim the 2023 holdover permit." But I've heard nothing. The lottery for 2023 just started (ends on Jan 31) so it seems they would want the holdover permits all squared away.
> 
> EDIT: now I noticed post #19 above saying the permits won't be re-issued. Well that's a bummer. Seems odd to proactively state they are doing holdovers in the cancellation, and subsequently decide they won't do any.


I just spoke on the phone with BLM. Only a few permits cancelled after the forest reopened will be rolled over. The logic being that the folks who had a permit in those early days of reopen didn't have enough time to prepare for their trip so they got roll-overs. The rest of us who had permits cancelled during the forests closure - better luck next year!


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## Inertiaman (Jun 4, 2021)

jsheglund said:


> I just spoke on the phone with BLM. Only a few permits cancelled after the forest reopened will be rolled over. The logic being that the folks who had a permit in those early days of reopen didn't have enough time to prepare for their trip so they got roll-overs. The rest of us who had permits cancelled during the forests closure - better luck next year!


So , , ,
People who actually had a choice to use their permit (albeit on short notice) and chose not to: _they get a rollover._ 
People who had no choice at all and were forced by FS action to cancel trips, in some cases despite already driving to the region: _ they get no rollover._

Seems like indefensible logic to me. I understand the motivation to close the forest, but this approach to rollovers is dumb.


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## Rick A (Apr 15, 2016)

I can't speak how it worked for other's, but I have a roll over permit. When they closed the forest and refunded my money, I made other plans. I received a call less than a week before we were supposed to launch and told due to recent rain the forest had been reopened. I was given the option to roll it over to this year or go ahead and launch. I chose to roll it over, per the email I received there are 20 other permits that if confirmed for the same weekend as the the original permit will be rolling over.


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