# Jackson Plastic Repair



## windriver (Mar 26, 2009)

I hit the local run a few days ago which had a shamefully low flow. Needless to say the boat took a beating. I ended up with some NASTY gouges and grooves, some of which look like new body lines. Luckily there are no puncture points, but it's gotta be close. 

So I'm wondering if there is a way to repair cross-linked plastic; basically I'd like to fill in some of the gouges and grooves to smooth out the hull again. I'm probably over-worried, but I was wondering if the grooves could give me trouble while surfing a wave, or if the next time I scrape over a rock, the grooves will catch it and puncture the rest of the way through.

Any info or past experience of what's worked/not worked would be great.

Thanks


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## richp (Feb 27, 2005)

Hi,

Jack's web site has this info on how to do that.

Using Our Adheasive for Inflatable Boat Repair_Jack's Plastic Welding inc

I've done it once, and while it takes a while for the solvent to dissolve the plastic from the base material, in the end the repair is pretty much indistinguishable.

Hope this helps.

Rich Phillips


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## Dave Frank (Oct 14, 2003)

That is for rafts. you really can't weld that cross link plastic. You might consider keeping some Bituthane for fixing the crack if it develops.


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## [email protected] (Apr 26, 2006)

I have been told that you can weld cross link plastic it just has a super narrow range of temps, so it makes it damn near impossible. I have never tried to weld cross linked but I know others who have tried unsuccessfully, IMO the best thing to so is just slpa a huge patch o bitchethene on it when it cracks. I don't understand why they use cross-link?, maybe just for marketing, it seems to me that stuff is just another reason no to buy one.
-Tom


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## paulk (Apr 24, 2006)

I cracked my allstar twice in one run running the narrows are a terribly low level in early may ( I think it was -4 feet on the rock gauge). slapped some bitchathane on it and it held surprisingly well the whole season, no leaks at all. When it finally does crack, give this option a try.


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## richp (Feb 27, 2005)

Hi,

My bad. It was early in the morning, didn't have enough coffee in me, and I read the header as Jack's Plastic. Then, I very obviously didn't pay much attention to the second paragraph....

Are the bandwidth monitors going to charge me for the wasted electrons?

Rich Phillips


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## thecraw (Oct 12, 2003)

I work for JK and I am not aware of anyway to weld cross link. As Dave and Paul mention, bittuthane works really well for any cracked kayak. My only reason to comment here is to ask when you bought the boat? If in the last three years, there is warranty left on the kayak. 1st year 100%, 2nd year 20% of retail, 3rd year, 40% of retail...
What is probably news to everyone (new for 2010 and forward), Jackson is doing two models of kayaks. We are molding Super Linear and Cross Link both in every model of WW kayaks for 2010. Stars/Hero's/Funs... and the very soon to be released "Villains"!!!! More on that later. 
Back to the Super linear discussion... The price goes down for the Super Linear versions. They don't come with Sweet Cheeks/Happy Feet. Just foam for the feet, and a nice looking and really comfy outfitting package for the seat/hips/thigh. 
The Cross Link versions move up in designation but are exactly what was standard from years past. Sweet Cheeks/Happy Feet and cross link plastic.
A big difference though is the warranty. The Super Linear version will still have the standard JK 1st year 100%/20% of retail/40% of retail. But we stand behind Cross link as the best/strongest/lightest material out there today for ww kayaks. For that reason we are bumping the warranty on Elite models for 2010 and forward to 2 years at 100% and the third year at 20%. This is pretty solid and nothing comes close to how strongly we warranty our products. You break it... we warranty it... period. Now if there are tire tracks going over the boat, you may have some resistance...

Super Linear is way less expensive a material (30% less actually) and our goal is to offer a kayak that meets everyones needs. So now we have a price point version that compares to our competitors materials and cross link for those that want the most durable plastic and extended warranty. Something else to add, is yes, our cross link boats crack. No boat is impervious, especially boats in Colorado/Rocky Mts areas... But, the key is the warranty for the investment you made... Try us out, if you breaks in the first three years, you will be pleasantly surprised.

Marty (Crawdad)


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## windriver (Mar 26, 2009)

Thanks for the replies

Marty - Thanks for the reply, I actually emailed the company using a warrantee email address listed on the site, but never got a response, so thanks for the info. My boat is an 08' model, however I bought it used last summer, so I doubt the warrantee transfers....correct me if I'm wrong.

So should I wait for it to crack before using the bittuthane, or could applying the bittuthane now help delay a crack from forming? 

Thanks


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## tallboy (Apr 20, 2006)

windriver said:


> Thanks for the replies
> 
> Marty - Thanks for the reply, I actually emailed the company using a warrantee email address listed on the site, but never got a response, so thanks for the info. My boat is an 08' model, however I bought it used last summer, so I doubt the warrantee transfers....correct me if I'm wrong.
> 
> ...



You are right that the warranty won't transfer since it is used. However, I bought a '08 mega rocker last year through the buzz and it cracked on its first run. Jackson was amazing at helping me out and I would give them a call instead of email. I had to spend some money, but it was a very fair price for what they sent me. 

A friend of mine had the same problem with his jefe, however he bought his brand new. It was embarrassing how LL handled the deal and if it weren't for the local shop owner standing up for him he probably would have been completely hosed (he bought the boat brand new from shop but it was last year's model and they didn't believe it was new).

Good luck, their customer service is top notch


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## craporadon (Feb 27, 2006)

Don't do any modifications previous to warranty redemption. If you have welded it, your warranty is probably toast. SO try to warranty it prior to bitchuthaning it. With that said, Bitchuthane does rule, and should be in your emergency kit. You can use it cracked boats, blister care or as a bandage on a wound with neosporin.


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## thecraw (Oct 12, 2003)

Crapo... Never thought of the blister care... Dang good idea there.


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## TRINITYPADDLER (Dec 2, 2008)

So a while back I put a 6 inch crack in my superstar. At that point the boat was about 4 years old and wearing thin under the seat where the crack appeared. I tried to repair it many times with many different methods and I found that they all worked to some degree but nothing held up for very long. Untill I tried this technique that an old school boater shared with me.

First, drill holes at the ends of the crack to keep it from spreading (of course).

Second, scribe a V groove in to both sides of the crack from hole to hole, including both holes. Make the grooves deep enough that they barely touch and you can see a small void of light through the crack.

Then weld liner plastic (wavesport or similar) in to the crack from both sides using a standard plastic welding method.

After that, I put a 4 layer duct tape and heat gun patch on the inside of the hull just in case the weld failed and also for extra structural integrity.

I tested the repair by standing on the hull with out the outfitting in it bouncing up and down flexing the hull.

I now have 30+ days of class 3 playboating on the repair and there is no sign of stress in the weld and the boat is dry.

I would not trust this repair for a creek boat but for play it has worked so far.

Nick


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## Waterwindpowderrock (Oct 11, 2003)

bituthene will hold for a very long time. I had a huck with 16 cracks in it that was essentially lined with bitch.
If you put it on now, you won't have to worry about when it will break, just slap it on & paddle.

I carry a 4" x 12" piece of it, with a small shammy to dry the area & a lighter to heat the bitch in case it isn't warm enough for it to stick by itself. This kit weights next to nothing & could save the day in a bad situation.


As for the warranty, I bought a LL from a dealer & it cracked 5 paddles later...
I paddle Jackson after having to fight to get LL to help me (I ended up buying a new hull for $400), the fact that I had 16 cracks _*I thought*_ would have been rather indicative that there was a problem with the plastic, obviously they did not see it the way I did.


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## otis (Oct 6, 2009)

Unfortunately the Jackson kayaks have had a tendency to crack, that's the bad news. The Great News is not only are they great boats but EJ and the crew really do look out for their customers. Let the folks at JK know the story and they will definately do you right. I can't say enought good things about the Jackson company, it really is a family!


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## TRINITYPADDLER (Dec 2, 2008)

Jackson Kayaks is a good company with excellent customer service and they have taken care of me in the past. In my previous post, my intention was not to induce a debate over customer service or plastic, but to share another way to repair a cross link boat.
As far as bitchuthane being a solid repair, I would have to disagree, at least in my situation. The crack was under the seat and the plastic was maybe 35% the thickness of a new boat due to heavy use. The flex in the hull would separate the bitchuthane from the plastic after a couple of uses and I even used a heat gun to apply it. In my humble opinion bitchuthane is a great option for on the water repairs, but not for perminent repairs. For a truly solid repair on linear plastic, welding is the only way to go. As for crosslink, I am still trying to figure that one out, but what I shared in my last reply is the best way that I have found so far.


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## paulk (Apr 24, 2006)

To clarify, for my bad crack, I put bitchathane on the inside and out. It hasnt really affected me on a wave or downriver, but I am not much of a playboater. The only thing I do notice is that sometimes when splatting or for shallow boof takeoffs, the bitchathane sticks to the rock and the top layer has been beat to hell. Make sure you sand the areas that you apply to and drill holes at the end of the cracks to prvent spreading. I also cleaned it and let it sit outside in the sun on a hot day before I put it on.


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## deepsouthpaddler (Apr 14, 2004)

I agree with Trinity, bitchithane definitely has limitations. Almost all of my cracks have been under the seat on a creekboat. Even if you drill out the ends of the crack and put the bitch on, hull flexing unevenly on opposite sides of the crack will tend to propogate the crack more and will end up flexing the bitchithane eventually causing leakage. Bitchithane is great for cracks that aren't under the seat or cracks that are small, but my personal experience is that cracks under the seat that are bitchithaned up will only hold up for a very short time. 

As for on river repair, its another mixed bag for bitchithane. Many times the crack is under the seat where its hard to get the bitch on. Unless you have a screwdriver to take your entire seat out, you are hosed. Even if you did have a screwdriver, are you going to take the seat out on the side of the river and have your crew wait 30-40 minutes while you repair your boat? Most likely you will simply paddle the cracked titanic of a boat out and patch it up at home.

I feel that welding is far superior to bitchithane, but thats just my personal experience. Of course the cross linked plastic isn't supposed to be able to be welded.

Bitchitane is still good to have on you though, especially for multidays. I brought some bitch on the middle fork of the salmon. One boater had a hole in the boat hear the thigh brace and didn't realize his boat was leaking like a sieve until miles away from the put in. Night one in camp I gave him some bitchithane and the boat was dry for the rest of the trip.


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## goldcamp (Aug 9, 2006)

thecraw said:


> I work for JK and I am not aware of anyway to weld cross link. As Dave and Paul mention, bittuthane works really well for any cracked kayak. My only reason to comment here is to ask when you bought the boat? If in the last three years, there is warranty left on the kayak. 1st year 100%, 2nd year 20% of retail, 3rd year, 40% of retail...
> What is probably news to everyone (new for 2010 and forward), Jackson is doing two models of kayaks. We are molding Super Linear and Cross Link both in every model of WW kayaks for 2010. Stars/Hero's/Funs... and the very soon to be released "Villains"!!!! More on that later.
> Back to the Super linear discussion... The price goes down for the Super Linear versions. They don't come with Sweet Cheeks/Happy Feet. Just foam for the feet, and a nice looking and really comfy outfitting package for the seat/hips/thigh.
> The Cross Link versions move up in designation but are exactly what was standard from years past. Sweet Cheeks/Happy Feet and cross link plastic.
> ...


Wow 2 years at 100% and 20% for the third year. Thats good stuff. Marty does this increase in warrenty correlate to an improvement in the durability of the cross link? In other words, has Jackson made some improvements in the cross link that make it less likely to break in those first couple of years?

I've had great experiences with Jackson customer service but I did feel that on at least one occasion my boat broke an hadn't really been subjected to any real abuse before it broke.


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## Schizzle (Mar 26, 2004)

TRINITYPADDLER said:


> Second, scribe a V groove in to both sides of the crack from hole to hole, including both holes. Make the grooves deep enough that they barely touch and you can see a small void of light through the crack.
> 
> I'm having a hard time picturing what you mean by V-groove? Can you describe that some more? I think I follow, but want to make sure.


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## TRINITYPADDLER (Dec 2, 2008)

V groove=Open up the surface of the crack on both sides of the hull, so that it has room for the new linear plastic.
I hope this helps.


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## TRINITYPADDLER (Dec 2, 2008)

Also, when welding the two types of plastic together, I found that they did not want to blend very well, but they bonded together.


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## darinm (Nov 7, 2005)

"As for on river repair, its another mixed bag for bitchithane. Many times the crack is under the seat where its hard to get the bitch on. Unless you have a screwdriver to take your entire seat out, you are hosed. Even if you did have a screwdriver, are you going to take the seat out on the side of the river and have your crew wait 30-40 minutes while you repair your boat? Most likely you will simply paddle the cracked titanic of a boat out and patch it up at home."

Just remember when you're in Cali bring the bitch cause you don't want to paddle that titanic out of the Middle Kings, and bring your own multi-tool so I don't have to constantly fish mine out of the drybag for repairs  

Speaking of Jackson boats and the bitchithane, I've patched boats on the river and paddled them hard for over a month after without drilling holes at either end, the crack didn't spread any of the three times I've done this.

cheers,

Darin


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## ActionJackson (Apr 6, 2005)

Tell me again for the first time...where do you get bitchithene? Home Depot? Roofers' supply? Other?


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## thecraw (Oct 12, 2003)

You get it from Dave frank.. He has been the sole source for everyone I know that has it. Classic.


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## David H (Oct 14, 2003)

You can get it at almost any hardware store it’s simply "roof and gutter patch tape".
It looks like tar on a paper roll sort of like fruit roll up.


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