# Free or oar rights for rowing?



## Chip (Apr 7, 2007)

Me? Rope wraps, rubber donuts, and Sawyer Cobra locks. 

I tried oar rights, and they make rowing flatwater tough (no rotation or feathering) and can really bugger you up in the big stuff. 

A lot of boaters like 'em. So try both and choose.


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## Skyman (Jun 26, 2006)

I would not do without them. Some of the best river guides in the country use them. I have a hard time thinking that people actually are doing a lot of "feathering" in big rapids. I know I will take some flack for that one. When it's time to put the oar in the water, I want it in the correct position.

Skyman


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## Droboat (May 12, 2008)

I pulled mine off to compare, and so I could have first hand retort to the "training wheel" jabs, but never put them back on. Like the feel better without.

If you can't stand the pressure and badgering at the put-in, put the ore rights in a bag and put them on at first opportunity.


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## TakemetotheRiver (Oct 4, 2007)

It's personal- try it both ways and decide. I learned to row without and they drove me crazy when I tried to use them on Westy- flat water and a few rapids- I fought the oar rights the whole time.


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## danvill (Mar 11, 2006)

I use oar rights and love them but I like big water and most people like me make a few mistakes now and then losing rotational control can really f things up just when you can't afford to. over the last thirty years I have used oars without rights pins and clips and oar rights. the problem with pins and clips is that you can dislodge an our an d you can have trouble getting it back on the pin and you are trying to make a clean run down lava falls. other than that they work great. but the ease of loading your ours in and out of position can not be beat by any other method than the oar right with good positive control of the shaft which makes your job easier... ask any girl


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## mania (Oct 21, 2003)




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## BoilermakerU (Mar 13, 2009)

I'm in the midst of making that determination myself. I have oar rights, but even as a newbie, I find myself fighting them a lot. They don't seem natural for some reason. I haven't taken them off yet, thinking I'll get used to them. I like the idea of having the blades in the right orientation when the sh!t hits the fan. I also like to let my wife row occasionally, so I think they are a must for her. She's still trying to sort out pushing and pulling...


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## TakemetotheRiver (Oct 4, 2007)

mania said:


>


I just bought these oars on Mania's recommendation and I love them!


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## Chip (Apr 7, 2007)

Some people who run ass-thumping stuff like the Lochsa at high water use oar rights. It gives you one point of certainty in an otherwise fluid situation. 

I used rights my first two seasons rowing, tried the other way, and sold 'em. I don't like the oar being fully engaged the instant I dip it into the water (which in a smaller boat can spin you sideways) and have been in fixes (near-pin/wrap) where rotating my upstream oar saved the day. 

Rowing rivers with lots of flatwater (_e.g._ the Grand Canyon, with upstream winds) you quickly learn how to rotate through each stroke so your oars are square in the current at the middle of each stroke and feathered in the wind. The rotation also seems easier on the wrists and shoulders. 

My set-up:










Try both ways. No pressure to decide.


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## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

Chip said:


> Some people who run ass-thumping stuff like the Lochsa at high water use oar rights. It gives you one point of certainty in an otherwise fluid situation.


Yeah Boy!

This is good, I was thinking of taking off the wheels this spring. Then came high water on the Lochsa and I said NFW, at least not my first year on it, probably never in that situation for me. After I drop an oar, and go to grab it, I want it down in the water in the right spot NOW. 

But now that we're down to more mellow summer floating, I might take them off and try it for my next trip. We'll see. I agree with how stifling they are in flatwater, but flatwater is stifling anyways.

If you're indecisive, go without. Most people use what they learned on and if you can by without, what the heck.


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## Dave Frank (Oct 14, 2003)

I just got the convertibles. I really like not having the trainers most times, but when it gets bigger i love to be locked in at least as I learn. It can be really hard to disengage that upstream oar if you get it sideways. I got sideways with a sideways up stream oar in the royal gorge a few weeks and got pulled right out of the boat. Fortunately I had squeezed my oarlocks in the vice that morning and the downstream one held in the lock and I was able to pull my self back in with it.

With the convertibles, you can flip 'em right in at the top of a rapid if you feel the need. I assume I will get over that feeling with some more "untrained" experience.


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## brendodendo (Jul 18, 2004)

Hated them. Tried them when I first got my boat and they came with the setup. Tried again on cataract through the first couple rapids. Could not get the proper feel. tossed them in a bucket and they sit there today.The wrist action without the rights just feels natural. I think its a love it or hate it thing.

Damn, I need to get my cats wrapped. I love the donut though. Makes it so much easier to adjust the oar on the fly.


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## muttster (Jan 12, 2009)

I have always rowed without them, but for me it came naturally. There has been several times that if I had not been able to feather an oar under water, I would have been tossed. I just got off the San Juan a few weeks ago, and being able to feather in the wind was great. 

I am starting to teach my kids to row, and my 6 year old son is doing pretty good about keeping the blades in the right position. My 8 year old daughter on the other hand has a hard time doing it. The way she rotates her hands spins the blades, so I am considering getting the convertible ones to help teach her.


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## LSB (Mar 23, 2004)

I like to feather my oars both in the water and through the air. Oar rights dont let ya do that. But I hear ya about knowing where your blade is. 
That said I think I have devised a scheme to make an index on my Cataract grips ... 3" heat shrink tubing with something (not sure what yet) underneath, maybe something like a popsicle stick. I just ordered the tubes the other day. I'll let yall know how they come out.


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## Spade Hackle (Jun 18, 2007)

Newbie fisherman rafter, started 3 years ago...My buddy and I started with oar rights on our 14 foot raft, took them off after a few days on the water, never even thought about putting them back on.

SH


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## pearen (Apr 28, 2007)

So far I am seeing a lot a personal preference expressed here and while I give credence to the training wheels argument I presently run rights. I learned to row without but appreciate the help in keeping my blades vertical in big water and while surfing. You will break more blades with rights, just because there is less give in the system. Rights really suck if you don't get them on quite tight enough and the shaft spins in there. I also think rights will save you one flip in your career, that violent flip where the upstream oar gets sucked under the boat while you are getting side surfed.


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## yarmonymatoid (Nov 5, 2008)

I started out without and really didn't think anything about it... but when I bought my new boat I got new oars with rights to try them out. I have to say, I think the whole feathering thing is in your head. I remember looking at people with rights on and thinking it was for amateurs, thinking my feathering was so beneficial. Now that I've used rights for 3 years I can honestly say I'm not embarrassed to use them. They keep it simple and you are always in your power position. If you do slip an oar in big water the correct position is easily regained. Do what you are comfortable with. In big water or big wind, rights are helpful. My wife also likes them when she gets behind the oars.


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## dgosn (Sep 8, 2006)

Try it both ways....

I HATE oar rights, Even in 'ass thumping water' like the Lochsa, Cataract, etc.... I found that when running heavy water you often are trying to catch eddys (or avoid in the GC), or move around in squirrelly water. Often with oar rights I found have my oar gets yanked from my hand because it catches a different current and gets sucked away. when I have no oar rights I can usually feather or flick the wrist and get my oar back. With no oar in your hand you have become a passenger!!

I will disagree with Pearen's statement that rights would save you one flip due to an upstream oar beings sucked under the boat, I feel with out oar rights you can generally avoid that. I loose grip of my oars much, much less when I dont have rights on.

I also think that oar rights can really hurt yourself, or you passenger. You could rip out your shoulder or have the oar whack your passengers.

Conversely, I know a lot of really good boaters that like Oar rights, and Pin and Clips. You will also see people on NF Payette with pins a clips, this a serious river with all kinds of scary things. I think it comes down to personal preference. People used to take scows and wooden boats down many of the rivers we take our $5000 oar rigs!

Have fun!


Scott


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## rwhyman (May 23, 2005)

LSB said:


> I like to feather my oars both in the water and through the air. Oar rights dont let ya do that. But I hear ya about knowing where your blade is.
> That said I think I have devised a scheme to make an index on my Cataract grips ... 3" heat shrink tubing with something (not sure what yet) underneath, maybe something like a popsicle stick. I just ordered the tubes the other day. I'll let yall know how they come out.


I've heard of putting a pencil under the grip so you know, by feel, which way is up. Never tried it.


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## dirtbagpinner (Apr 25, 2005)

Agree that it's a personal thing -- you prefer oar rights or you don't, and trying it both ways is a great way to decide.

I've seen folks cut down the standard oar rights, eliminating a portion of the tongue -- cut back to the "G" in "Grant's" or thereabouts. The idea seems to be that's enough to use the rights when you wish, or pull the oar out far enough to not engage the oar right. 

There's also "new" convertible oar rights; here's a link: Convertible Oar Right

Me: I learned 20+ years ago to row without them, and prefer donuts (but also agree that the whole feathering thing is mostly in a rower's psyche -- the boat catches far more wind, and I've missed my fair share of "need it now" power strokes. Anyway...). My wife prefers the oar rights. Thinking I'll give the convertibles a shot to see if we can have the best of both worlds.


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## BarryDingle (Mar 13, 2008)

Sawyer Polecats,ropewrap,and donuts make me happy.


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## captishmael (Feb 8, 2008)

When I started rafting, I went bare, didn't like it when I'd lose track of my oar orientation in a rapid and grab what felt like air when what I needed was a big ol' handfull of water. I suppose that would have improved with time. I got Oar Rights as a remedy, and liked them a lot. When I got a second boat, I equipped it with Thole Pins and clips, just to try them. I like them slightly better than locks and Oar Rights. Pins (with stirrups) are definitely better when you pop an oar. Don't feel quite as nice when your oar is in the proper place, though.


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## Chip (Apr 7, 2007)

You ought to be getting the sense that there's no absolute right setup. 

As far as the advantages of feathering while rowing flatwater and long trips being in my head, GTFOH. Having earned my way most of my adult life through physical work outdoors, I'm pretty aware of the difference between stress and ease. 

One aspect that's key to rowing open locks is knowing where your blades are, which takes a strong and yet sensitive grip. One of the first things I did after taking the O-Rights off my Carlisles was to peel off the foam grips and rough up the plastic ones, so I could feel any movement. 

The wood oars I now like (Gull from NZ) come varnished with bare wood grips, and I love 'em. (If you want generic foam grips, shoot me a PM— I'll mail you a set, no charge.)


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## Wadeinthewater (Mar 22, 2009)

Chip said:


> with bare wood grips, and I love 'em.


Gotta agree with Chip. Just bought a pair of Cataracts with wooden handles instead of the foam grips. I believe Sawyer can set you up the same way.


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## JHimick (May 12, 2006)

I'm of the opinion that oar rights are nothing but training wheels. I think all the arguments that they're good in big water, keep you always in place for a power stroke, and may prevent a flip are total bullshit. If you don't know the position of your blade when you're in the shit then you don't have enough experience rowing. The benefit of being able to feather your blade in current to maintain complete control of your oar far outweighs anything else. As someone else said, if you don't have control of your oars, you're just a passenger. As far as feathering blades above the water... One, feathering as your blades exit the water makes for less resistance and a more efficient stroke. Two, feathering the blades on a windy day over ten to fifteen miles makes a difference... that's a fact, not imagination.


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## swiftwater15 (Feb 23, 2009)

*Oar rights as training wheels.*



JHimick said:


> I'm of the opinion that oar rights are nothing but training wheels. .


Amen, Brother. My kids don't need oar rights, and they are 11 and 13. Seriously, you soon get a feel for where your blades are. If you don't have that yet, you aren't ready to row anything hard.

Danno


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## yarmonymatoid (Nov 5, 2008)

Wow, those are some strong opinions, I'm going to take mine off and try it again. Due to work and family stuff I'd taken a couple of years off the river before I bought my latest boat. I just got the oars locks with the whole package, more or less because they were thrown in. I guess it's been quite sometime since I've tried it without. Never had a problem without them, just never noticed that I hate them. I'm going to take them off and see.


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## swiftwater15 (Feb 23, 2009)

yarmonymatoid said:


> Wow, those are some strong opinions,


Well, yeah. Weak opinions would be a waste of electrons.


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## ericnourse (Feb 13, 2009)

Dave Frank said:


> I just got the convertibles. I really like not having the trainers most times, but when it gets bigger i love to be locked in at least as I learn. It can be really hard to disengage that upstream oar if you get it sideways. I got sideways with a sideways up stream oar in the royal gorge a few weeks and got pulled right out of the boat. Fortunately I had squeezed my oarlocks in the vice that morning and the downstream one held in the lock and I was able to pull my self back in with it.
> 
> With the convertibles, you can flip 'em right in at the top of a rapid if you feel the need. I assume I will get over that feeling with some more "untrained" experience.


Dave, I'm a bit embarrassed to admit we paddled together the other day. Oar locks? You come across ass such a bad ass. Ditch the training wheels. Please tell me you don't use tethers. I don't dare throw my secrets out to the public, but since we are now friends, throw me a call. Good times on the creek the other day. Took the Sotar IK down the next day. Riot!

E-


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## ericnourse (Feb 13, 2009)

ericnourse said:


> Dave, I'm a bit embarrassed to admit we paddled together the other day. Oar locks? You come across ass such a bad ass. Ditch the training wheels. Please tell me you don't use tethers. I don't dare throw my secrets out to the public, but since we are now friends, throw me a call. Good times on the creek the other day. Took the Sotar IK down the next day. Riot!
> 
> E-


I meant oar rights.

E-


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## TakemetotheRiver (Oct 4, 2007)

ericnourse said:


> Please tell me you don't use tethers.
> E-


Tethers are not the same as Oar Rights. I learned the hard way. I didn't put tethers on through Brown's Park, figuring I'd put them on when I got to Lodore, long story short, I grabbed a sand bar with the down stream oar, it popped and was gone in seconds- never to be seen again. 

Tethers are more like insurance than training wheels.


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## rwhyman (May 23, 2005)

Well, thanks to all the comments on this thread, I guess I'm not worthy to post on here anymore. 

In the few years that I've been boating, I've run the Grand, a couple of Middle Fork trips at 5 to 6 ft., the Main Salmon, Westwater a few times, the Gorge a few times plus Lodore, Yampa at 11K and a bunch of other stuff. All with "training wheels". And yes, I've tried running without them.

Maybe some day I'll grow up, but I've always said, "If it works, don't fix it"

And while I won't say it, I'm still a member of one of the 3 types of rafters.


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## Riparian (Feb 7, 2009)

Roger, I feel you, man! I use oar rights *and* tethers, and I like 'em both. Perhaps most telling, I no longer haul my boat to the river in a horse-drawn cart. I use one of them new-fangled auto-mo-biles. Pussy city, I know. I'm pretty sure the decline into wimpdom started when I installed indoor plumbing and electricity in my little mountain shack. 

Clearly I am not worthy.


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## yarmonymatoid (Nov 5, 2008)

I hear ya fella's, I'm taking mine off so I can be cool again! (I am curious to see if it makes a big difference in your "control") I went without for about 7 years in really big and really small water and I just don't remember it being that different. I guess I'll have to carry an extra set of oars with rights for my wife when she's behind them, so I'm not considered a pussy.


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## Kendo (Jul 26, 2006)

I am still new to rafting(3 years), but have kayaked for 16 years, i currently use oar lock uprights, I am wondering if you loose the feel and ability to feather - like in a kayak when you always keep a paddle in the water for stablity and really direction adjustments.(angle the blade). is this what I am missing by using the locks?

I only raft class-3 and below

I am very interested in loosing the locks if it means I gain a little more in feel and control!

Thanks for this post it was informative!


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## Jack Bombardier (May 26, 2005)

All of you "Oar Rights are training wheels" types out there really make my eyes roll. MAYBE on multi-day trips through flat water I can see the need for feathering (as one poster noted the boat itself has a far larger profile than the blades while they are in the air), but in big water when you need to bust some moves Oar Rights rock. Two problems they prevent - one is when you REALLY need to get some bite to move your boat, and find that your blade has gotten a little sideways, and your boat doesn't move as much as you expected. The second problem is when you need to get your oar OUT of the water, and its gotten a little sideways and you can't lift it. In addition to being dangerous its a lot of wear and tear on your shoulders and elbows. 

I've got Oar Rights on both of my boats, but also work part-time for a local whitewater company that doesn't use them on theirs, and I HATE it. Oar Rights are the best nine bucks you can spend on your rig.


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## LSB (Mar 23, 2004)

Jack Bombardier said:


> Oar Rights are the best nine bucks you can spend on your rig.


Nope... a dozen Highlifes is


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## yarmonymatoid (Nov 5, 2008)

LSB said:


> Nope... a dozen Highlifes is



Agreed... got to have the Champagne!


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## carvedog (May 11, 2005)

Good God. I was going to stay out of this but JB you been hitting the long bong or something, cuz you are presenting as fact that which is merely your opinion. Dangerous to run without oar rights?? Bwaaaaaaaaa. 
Do you own stock in an oar right company?



Jack Bombardier said:


> All of you "Oar Rights are training wheels"..........blah, blah, blah....................blah..............blah............ but in big water when you need to bust some moves Oar Rights rock. Two problems they prevent - one is when you REALLY need to get some bite to move your boat, and find that your blade has gotten a little sideways, and your boat doesn't move as much as you expected.


Good boatmen don't "find" that their blade has gotten a little sideways anymore than a kayaker rolling up "finds" their blade the wrong angle. Either you feel it or you don't. A kayaker looks for current and sculls around to find it. A good rafter does too. 




Jack Bombardier said:


> The second problem is when you need to get your oar OUT of the water, and its gotten a little sideways and you can't lift it. In addition to being dangerous its a lot of wear and tear on your shoulders and elbows.


 ===== you're doing it wrong. 


Your oar has "gotten" a little sideways??? Try holding on to your oars. It really isn't that hard. If you like to get drunk and slather yourself with sunscreen and be able to just grab and yank at an oar I guess it might be better with the rights, but I can't think of too many other situations. 



Jack Bombardier said:


> I've got Oar Rights on both of my boats, but also work part-time for a local whitewater company that doesn't use them on theirs, and I HATE it. Oar Rights are the best nine bucks you can spend on your rig.


I used to guide for a local whitewater company and they had a mix. Everyone once in a while I got stuck with oar rights and I HATED it. 

Save the nine bucks and go buy some Guinness. It will really help improve your boating. And Guinness makes an easy transition from coffee to beer when you are on the river.


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## skyegod (Apr 23, 2009)

I learned to row last year, no oar rights. I did try them once at the end of the season, and did not enjoy them. When I got my rig this year, I went with rope wrap and donut. It is definitely a learning curve. But hey I am learning. but when all is said and done, I think that if it works for you, and you end the day with a great big goofy grin on your face, and your passengers are feeling the same way - then what does it really matter. Just get out there and have some damn fun! DAMNIT!!!


Andrew


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## yarmonymatoid (Nov 5, 2008)

This topic seems to stir similar emotions as some of the political threads in the Eddy! Pretty damn funny, I agree with skyegod and Ween... just do what you wanna, it'll be oK!


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## Skyman (Jun 26, 2006)

So, am I seeing a link between big ego's and no oar rights? Sheesh, you non-oar right folks need to get your panties out of a bunch. It's just personal preference. Am I less of a man if I drink Miller Light vs. Guiness? Well, yes on that one.

Skyman


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## carvedog (May 11, 2005)

Skyman said:


> So, am I seeing a link between big ego's and no oar rights? Sheesh, you non-oar right folks need to get your panties out of a bunch. It's just personal preference. Am I less of a man if I drink Miller Light vs. Guiness? Well, yes on that one.
> 
> Skyman


Uhhhh, dude. I don't wear panties. Maybe that is part of your problem, besides the oar rights that is. Glad they work for you. The undergarments or the rights. Does that make it easier to dry your sack after you get flipped out of the boat from your oar getting stuck in an eddy and you can't twist it to get the oar out?


Dave Frank and Lhowe are boating buddies I met through the buzz, and I will still boat with them - oar rights and all. 

What is really over the top is the mention of that other beer in the same sentence as Guinness. NOT COOL.


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## rwhyman (May 23, 2005)

carvedog said:


> What is really over the top is the mention of that other beer in the same sentence as Guinness. NOT COOL.


I didn't know you could even call that other product a beer.


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## jmalefyt (Apr 23, 2009)

It's the champagne of beers!!


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## skyegod (Apr 23, 2009)

Skyman said:


> Sheesh, you non-oar right folks need to get your panties out of a bunch.


Kilts all the way - WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!
Free oars and Free Balls


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## Skyman (Jun 26, 2006)

carvedog said:


> Uhhhh, dude. I don't wear panties. Maybe that is part of your problem, besides the oar rights that is. Glad they work for you. The undergarments or the rights. Does that make it easier to dry your sack after you get flipped out of the boat from your oar getting stuck in an eddy and you can't twist it to get the oar out?
> 
> 
> Dave Frank and Lhowe are boating buddies I met through the buzz, and I will still boat with them - oar rights and all.
> ...


Help, I'm a panty wearing weekling who's not strong enough to get my oar out of an eddy! Please, throw me a turkey leg and a whistle!

You are correct though, the beer comment was way over the top. My sincere apologies to the beer gods.

Skyman


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## mania (Oct 21, 2003)

carvedog said:


> Good boatmen don't "find" that their blade has gotten a little sideways anymore than a kayaker rolling up "finds" their blade the wrong angle. Either you feel it or you don't. A kayaker looks for current and sculls around to find it. A good rafter does too.


perfect response.


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## Chip (Apr 7, 2007)




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## Chip (Apr 7, 2007)

Just to get this back to the gear— I used oar rights and decided I liked open locks better. But I'm not on a crusade. I could row a trip with a bunch of boaters with rights and not say a word. Might as well argue briefs vs. boxers. 

I can see how rights would feel good if you like a really solid coupling of your oars to your frame. They could also be good if you had a raftful of dudes to manage, and had to hop back to your seat and get a few heroic strokes in before grabbing Mr. Elfington by the scruff and hauling him back into the boat. Or if you row crazy, close-spaced rapids, losing and grabbing oars, and get your butt kicked in big water. You do what works for you. 

But for the sort of generalized rowing I do, on long trips with rapids and lots of flat stretches, open Sawyer Cobra locks, rope wraps, and donuts let me use my physical skills (limited, to be sure). 

I think open locks give you the chance to learn the craft of rowing. That includes using your entire body, not just your arms, and feathering, and rotating through each stroke, and other fine points I've yet to learn. 

I just got my ass chewed on another forum (for wooden boat sailors) about using rope wraps on my wood oars. When anyone who counts uses only stitched leather. 

Can't win. So you have to figure out what works, and get on with it. 

Still, if you'd rather mix it up, then go for it. Only limpwristed right-wing shithead pimp mommy-shaggers wear BOXERS! 

So there.


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## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

carvedog said:


> What is really over the top is the mention of that other beer in the same sentence as Guinness. NOT COOL.


Shit, I didn't know Guinness was BEER. All these years I thought it was some sort of wilderness-compact-packing liquid bread. No wonder, that explains soooo much!


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## riverguy (Jun 12, 2009)

Oar rights are just one more thing that can go wrong. Keep it simple.


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## caverdan (Aug 27, 2004)

I say use what makes you happy and confident. If one type was good for everyone......there would be only one type. 

( Being old school....I'm still using hinges on a stick, 2x2's and yield signs.  )


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## Skyman (Jun 26, 2006)

My Mother and Grandmother grew up in Scotland/England. During my Grandmothers pregnancies, the doctor prescribed my Grandmother to drink one Guinness a day. Where do we find doctors like that now?

Skyman


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## brendodendo (Jul 18, 2004)

boxers and briefs are overrated. Just another government ploy to get you to spend money and cover your bum. Free is the only way. Those dudes need air.


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## skyegod (Apr 23, 2009)

brendodendo said:


> boxers and briefs are overrated. Just another government ploy to get you to spend money and cover your bum. Free is the only way. Those dudes need air.


Get a Kilt ! :twisted:


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## BoilermakerU (Mar 13, 2009)

ericnourse said:


> ...Please tell me you don't use tethers...


I'm glad I use tethers! I let my wife row last weekend, and had I not had my tethers, I would have lost one of my shiny new cataract oars (SHE would have lost it actually). She got herself in a minor bit of trouble, paniced, and the oar ended up in the water. As I saw it sinking to the bottom, the tether tightened and it hung on so I could get my wife back in her seat and I could grab the oar and put it back where it belonged - in the oar loack.

And because I do still ahve the oar rights on, it was in the right position for me to get the boat back online in a hurry...


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## Chip (Apr 7, 2007)

Skyman said:


> My Mother and Grandmother grew up in Scotland/England. During my Grandmothers pregnancies, the doctor prescribed my Grandmother to drink one Guinness a day. Where do we find doctors like that now? Skyman


When I found that old Guinness sign on the web, I was searching for a classic old Guinness poster that showed a young mum with babe in arms, with that same line: _Guinness Is Good For You_. 

It was prescribed for nursing mothers and patients in TB hospitals, mainly for the iron content, I reckon. The yeast and dregs from the brewing vats are recycled as Marmite and Vegemite, beloved by many UK folks for nutritional value and unique flavor.


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## Chip (Apr 7, 2007)

skyegod said:


> Get a Kilt ! :twisted:


Several guys on a Grand trip would get out of their rubber bondage gear at camp and put on those sarong wrap thingies. When we played the game where you stand on rocket boxes and tug on a rope, they kept falling off the boxes and exposing their stuff to the heavens. 

One Scottish chap was quite upset that the ten or twelve women on the trip had seen his "willy." Not that he had anything to be ashamed of. 

OK. Back on topic: if I were running Oar Rights, I'd definitely use floating oarblades, to keep the grips more-or-less within reach. Or counterweights. Or both. Any feedback on that combination?


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## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

Chip said:


> The yeast and dregs from the brewing vats are recycled as Marmite and Vegemite, beloved by many UK folks for nutritional value and unique flavor.


Have you ever had that stuff? PUKE! It is nasty!

No floating blades, I prefer the carlisles. But I do use some duct tape to shim the skinny neck where they don't have a smooth transition from the blade to the shaft, where my tether o ring gets caught after some shit. Cataracts are better designed in that way. It would be nice to have the floaty, but a different shape and you know how it goes (what I started with, tried the other and didn't like it). I never use counterweights anymore when I'm on something I think there's a good chance of popping an oar. They dive to the bottom and can cause the oar to jam in rocks. On mellow stuff, you bet, take a load off the arms! 

I'll never row without tethers, I want my oar to come back. Especially if I am still upright and rowing, and super especially after I have to reflip. 

I figured it was those Righties that wear the tighty-whities! Aren't boxers for Lefty-Loosies?

It's much more fun to argue open/rights pins/clips boxers/tighty-whities than sit around the boating camp-fire and talk politics, religion, and work.

It's not about winning, it's about playing the game. I sure like the game of rowing.


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## BoilermakerU (Mar 13, 2009)

Chip said:


> ...OK. Back on topic: if I were running Oar Rights, I'd definitely use floating oarblades, to keep the grips more-or-less within reach. Or counterweights. Or both. Any feedback on that combination?


I didn't know you could get floating oar blades.  But I'm a newbie, so what do I know. I did get the counterweights on the Cataract oars, and am really glad that I did. Those 10' oars are heavy suckers, especially for my wife. My spares are 9' Carlisles, and I haven't tried those yet, but they don't have counterweights. They do have oar rights though....


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## ENDOMADNESS (Jun 21, 2005)

Purdue U- Your cataract blades (if you have the magnums) will float, the regular cataract blades don't float so well. So will Sawyer wooden blades. I have sawyer wooden blades with counterweights and they bob in the water at perfect position when you let them go.

I also have Carlisles blades.....float?....not so much.


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## BoilermakerU (Mar 13, 2009)

ENDOMADNESS said:


> ...Your cataract blades (if you have the magnums) will float....


I do have the Magnum blades, but they didn't float all that well. I think that's because the shafts are so long and heavy, and then there's the extra weight for the counterbalances.  Maybe they sink a bit slower though, because I was able to get to it rather easily (but it was also tehtered) when my wife dumped it in the river. :-D


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## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

BoilermakerU said:


> I do have the Magnum blades, but they didn't float all that well. I think that's because the shafts are so long and heavy, and then there's the extra weight for the counterbalances.  Maybe they sink a bit slower though, because I was able to get to it rather easily (but it was also tehtered) when my wife dumped it in the river. :-D


The counterbalances completely overwhelm the flotation of the cataract blades. Good job with the tethers. The blades aren't all that floaty, but they are much more than carlisles (which have NO flotation)

What would you do if you lost an oar, and you had to use your spare? They need to be the same length. You can get 1' extensions that would be fine for a spare.


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## BoilermakerU (Mar 13, 2009)

lhowemt said:


> ...What would you do if you lost an oar, and you had to use your spare? They need to be the same length...


I have two spares.  I got three 9' shafts from a friend who needed to get rid of them, and they were cheap (and it got them out of his way). Some day, I'll get the extensions, but for spares and since I have two (on the boat), they'll do in a pinch.


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## raymo (Aug 10, 2008)

If you are not rowing a huge and heavy 20 foot cargo raft (pig boat) in big water with your ass off the seat, pulling with your legs and back watching your oars bend, too keep the rig from sliding side ways into a large hole.(must have pin and clip set-up). Other than that free spining or pin and clip will work fine, just depends on what you prefer. Sounds like you have tried both.


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## Chip (Apr 7, 2007)

lhowemt said:


> Have you ever had that stuff? PUKE! It is nasty!












In Australia, Vegemite is pretty near sacred. There was a big to-do when Kraft Foods changed the formula by adding cream cheese. The wise men of OZ swear by Batman Toast: toast bread crisp, smear on Vegemite, top with scrambled eggs. Not a breakfast for the fainthearted.

Oops— off topic again.


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## pearen (Apr 28, 2007)

*Mania will be proud...*

Getting back on topic...

I just got off the South Salmon and EFSF and rowed both without rights. Recall from an earlier post, I learned to row without, but have been running rights for the past couple of seasons on my cat.

Running without was just like riding a bike. It came back instantly with no loss in performance. Basically, I really enjoyed the freedom and feeling of being without rights again. It was great with one major caveat...

Surfing without rights sucks! That control stroke where you only engage half of your blade in the green water does not work without rights. No matter how strong your wrists are you can't hold the blade vertical on strong fast waves. I found myself spinning off the big powerful waves, where with rights I would have been able to carve back and forth across the face.

So, if you need rights to know where your blade is, then maybe they are training wheels. But, if you know where your blade is and just can't keep it there, then maybe they are more like depends...


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## wayniac (Mar 31, 2007)

Rockhead said:


> Yo Buzzards
> 
> Here's a question for you. Oar rights on your sticks or free spinning? I've been trying both, small water and large and am interseted in hearing the vast and varied opinion found in this forum.
> 
> bottoms down


I've rowed with 4 different oar systems- a very large pin clamp attached to the oar that fit into an oar stand, pins and clips, oar rights and open oar locks. I've been noticing the boat dealers pushing open oar locks as well as counter weights. The setups I've rowed are on the one hand, very comfortable, but just not what I'm used to. If all I did was fish on flat stretches, I'd switch. I also don't care to swing around the additional weight when I'm doing fast moves in tight technical whitewater. I used pins and clips for years but developed problems in my wrists from slamming them back in when they popped out. When I went to oar rights, my wrist injuries cleared up and I quite breaking blades. Here's something you may want to have a look at if you run IV+ stuff- find pics of folks who routinely run this and you will see the majority of them either use pins and clips or oar rights. They simply try to reduce the number of things that can go wrong when every stroke needs to be precise under the worst possible scenarios for swim consequences. When boating internationally though, the gear will always be open oar locks, so anyone who decides to take part should have this skill. And by the way- I'd be glad to compare river running resumes with anyone who wants to give me a hard time about using my oar rights.
wayne


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## carvedog (May 11, 2005)

pearen said:


> Getting back on topic...
> 
> I just got off the South Salmon and EFSF and rowed both without rights. Recall from an earlier post, I learned to row without, but have been running rights for the past couple of seasons on my cat.
> 
> ...


He Who Dances on Water and Logs comes up with the best reason to ever have oar rights. Good point. I don't surf my Willi 2 very much but in a cat I can see it.


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## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

pearen said:


> where with rights I would have been able to carve back and forth across the face.


You're making me droooool! Someday surely I'll be there, instead of just getting punted out. Have you ever seen Dave Becker surf? smooth operator!


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## GoodTimes (Mar 9, 2006)

I know I'm comin' in late on this one........but I learned on pins/clips, spent the first 12 years of my rowing experience on them, pops and g-pops LOVED them, it's all I knew.

When I finally bucked "family tradition" and went with locks (much shit-getting)....I could NEVER imagine going back. 

BUT, I was quite used to putting the oar in the water and not having to worry about feathering....it was always "right". Soooooo....oar rights felt better for me when I started out on locks. And I'll almost always use oar rights when I'm on more challenging runs.......not that I'm concerned about strength or feathering or whatever....I just want to limit mistakes.

I do like without rights on easier trips/floats 

Pearen's right......surfing without is a B$%$H!!!


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## Wirednoodle (Feb 10, 2009)

Has anyone tried the convertible oar rights?
Oar Right: Oar Rights


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## mania (Oct 21, 2003)

Wirednoodle said:


> Has anyone tried the convertible oar rights?
> Oar Right: Oar Rights


so its like this where you can move them out of the way?










sweet!

disclaimer: In all fairness I know some very good class V oarsmen/women who use clips although I prefer open on V it really is not the equipment it's the boater but I like to poke a little fun!


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## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

mania said:


> disclaimer: In all fairness I know some very good class V oarsmen/women who use clips although I prefer open on V it really is not the equipment it's the boater but I like to poke a little fun!


You just can't pull off "disclaimers" anymore since your avatar became a skinless monster on fire. EWWWW! That gives a whole new meaning to "flaming" someone.


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