# Help Identifying Material?



## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

Likely PVC... Inflatable boat cleaner works way better than 409.. very unlikely it's hypalon, looks like PVC.. I see the halkey valves, does it have bladders and zippers?


----------



## westwatercuban (May 19, 2021)

I assume it has bladders, it does have the zippers, but haven’t unzipped to inspect the bladders yet.


----------



## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

westwatercuban said:


> I assume it has bladders, it does have the zippers, but haven’t unzipped to inspect the bladders yet.


It's PVC then, definitely...


----------



## westwatercuban (May 19, 2021)

I’ll have to check out the inflatable boat cleaner, I’ve only heard of people using 409 for pvc boats.
Edit: meant to say 303 not 409.. 
Sweet thanks for confirming! That’s what I figured, but wanted to double check.


----------



## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

Inflatable Boat Cleaner | NRS


To keep your raft, cataraft, inflatable kayak and SUP board looking new, use Inflatable Boat Cleaner. Easily removes ugly dirt, stains and frame marks.



www.nrs.com


----------



## griz (Sep 19, 2005)

No way it’s anything but pvc but I believe the test is to rub a little toluene on a spot and see if it turns tacky or not. Tacky = PVC . Maybe someone else with less rusty knowledge there can confirm or deny that though. some tear aid in your repair kit for bladder boats is a good idea too, if you don’t have any.


----------



## k2andcannoli (Feb 28, 2012)

Just send the serial # to Aire and they will get back to you with the model and year of manufacture.


----------



## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

westwatercuban said:


> I’ll have to check out the inflatable boat cleaner, I’ve only heard of people using 409 for pvc boats.
> Edit: meant to say 303 not 409..
> Sweet thanks for confirming! That’s what I figured, but wanted to double check.


303 is not a cleaner, 303 is an aerospace protectant, folks started using it on hypalon boats years ago to keep the UV off of them and help keep the rubber from drying out. IMHO it does little for plastic boats, does keep the UV off until it washes off, but doesn't penetrate the plastic {PVC, or polyvinyl chloride}. 

When you wrestle the zippers open, if you can get them open, take the time to use a good wax based zipper lube, if you ever have to work on the bladders, you'll thank yourself, oh, and for the yearly bladder maintenance too, washing and drying before storing for the off season..


----------



## westwatercuban (May 19, 2021)

MNichols said:


> 303 is not a cleaner, 303 is an aerospace protectant, folks started using it on hypalon boats years ago to keep the UV off of them and help keep the rubber from drying out. IMHO it does little for plastic boats, does keep the UV off until it washes off, but doesn't penetrate the plastic {PVC, or polyvinyl chloride}.
> 
> When you wrestle the zippers open, if you can get them open, take the time to use a good wax based zipper lube, if you ever have to work on the bladders, you'll thank yourself, oh, and for the yearly bladder maintenance too, washing and drying before storing for the off season..


Have to admit, I feel embarrassed 🤦🏻‍♂️ You are exactly right on the 303 I guess that’s what I get for posting with a few drinks in me 😂 I can’t like your post enough with the zipper lube. Had to open one of my buddys rafts and it was a pain in the behind with all the silt build up.


----------



## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

westwatercuban said:


> Have to admit, I feel embarrassed 🤦🏻‍♂️ You are exactly right on the 303 I guess that’s what I get for posting with a few drinks in me 😂 I can’t like your post enough with the zipper lube. Had to open one of my buddys rafts and it was a pain in the behind with all the silt build up.


That's one of the downsides to bladder boats, the upside, if there is one is they are quite inexpensive comparatively..


----------



## westwatercuban (May 19, 2021)

MNichols said:


> That's one of the downsides to bladder boats, the upside, if there is one is they are quite inexpensive comparatively..


I always liked the ability to use tare aid in a pinch and being able to replace the bladders if needed. But every boat has its ups and downs. I love Hypalon given how easy it is to store and work with, but it comes at a price for sure.


----------



## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

westwatercuban said:


> I always liked the ability to use tare aid in a pinch and being able to replace the bladders if needed. But every boat has its ups and downs. I love Hypalon given how easy it is to store and work with, but it comes at a price for sure.


Yep, but hypalon boats outlast plastic boats many times over if cared for.In my opinion, they handle a lot better too...


----------



## stony2275 (Apr 26, 2010)

If it does not have zippers, it it most likely not an Aire. Check out the links to check out manufacturer etc. I used it to identify a used Aire on Craig's.









How to Identify Your Boat


Here's how to identify your boat's Hull Identification Number (HIN), or



www.nrs.com






https://soeasilydistracted.com/home/boat-manufacturer-identification-code-lookup-mic/










Hull ID Numbers | Boat Safe | Water Sports, Product Reviews, and Nautical News


Hull ID Numbers Play The Numbers Game: (What Is A HIN?) Did you ever wonder what that strange series of letters and numbers on the transom of your boat are. Well, if you have taken the Nautical Know How course you know they are Hull Identification Numbers (HIN) and that…




www.boatsafe.com


----------



## kengore (May 29, 2008)

I own a similar fishing pontoon. If it is like mine the outer cover is PVC, the inner bladder is urethane. My bladders are made of clear material (urethane) If it is milky it might also be PVC.

As other suggested Tear-Aid or Tenacious Tape products will work well in the bladder. Tear-Aid comes in 2 flavors, type B is best for PVC (vinyl) and type A for urethane. I think they well enough to use as a permanent repair. A standard patch kit for a PVC raft works for repairs on the cover. (PVC fabric and Stabond adhesive) For a field repair on the cover you can usually get by with some gorilla brand duct tape applied to the inside surface.

I prefer to do a permanent repair at home under ideal conditions. Don't use Tear-Aid for a field repair you hope to replace, it won't come off.


----------



## Wallrat (Jan 19, 2021)

I have that same boat, with 10’ tubes. I think you’re really going to love it. If I had to get rid of one of my boats, the little cat would not be on the list. I’ve run up to class IV with it, though I wouldn’t do it often. A couple of mods I use are 6’ straps around the tubes and frame, front and back, since the d rings are not bomber. I also carry a small drybox on the back deck for lunch, etc. It also adds flotation as an aid in preventing the unwanted Dumptruck. Add a breakdown oar, and you have a sweet whitewater boat.


----------



## westwatercuban (May 19, 2021)

Wallrat said:


> I have that same boat, with 10’ tubes. I think you’re really going to love it. If I had to get rid of one of my boats, the little cat would not be on the list. I’ve run up to class IV with it, though I wouldn’t do it often. A couple of mods I use are 6’ straps around the tubes and frame, front and back, since the d rings are not bomber. I also carry a small drybox on the back deck for lunch, etc. It also adds flotation as an aid in preventing the unwanted Dumptruck. Add a breakdown oar, and you have a sweet whitewater boat.


That's exactly why I wanted it. I'm glad to hear that someone else uses it for what I plan to. I can only imagine this boat is fun to play with in the waves. Just by looking at them, I can see how the D-rings are a fail point. I'm throwing away the crappy straps and gonna use some NRS ones. I'm excited about using it on the town run, the wife can be on her SUP and I can be chilling with a small cooler for a picnic. I did notice some of the adjustable spots on the frame have some wiggle to them. Do you have that too? I'm gonna rig it up tonight to see if I can get it a little tighter.


----------



## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

The letters on straps NRS stand for "Not Really Secure" 

Tuffriverstuff.com makes simply the best straps known to man, each with a "D" ring near the buckle for a convenient attachment point...


----------



## Wallrat (Jan 19, 2021)

I managed to widen the frame by 2”, then bolted everything. I also removed everything that didn’t have to do with whitewater. That removed about 10#. You’ll find out that helps a bit, widening it. That boat loves to flip over sideways.


----------



## westwatercuban (May 19, 2021)

MNichols said:


> The letters on straps NRS stand for "Not Really Secure"
> 
> Tuffriverstuff.com makes simply the best straps known to man, each with a "D" ring near the buckle for a convenient attachment point...


Look I really like the name okay...It's the only way to fit in with the cool kids...
I'll have to look into tuff river stuff. never heard of them, but always open to new designs. 



Wallrat said:


> I managed to widen the frame by 2”, then bolted everything. I also removed everything that didn’t have to do with whitewater. That removed about 10#. You’ll find out that helps a bit, widening it. That boat loves to flip over sideways.


I'll see if mine can adjust sideways. I think it's just the legs for me. But definitely would agree that would help with stability.


----------



## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

westwatercuban said:


> Look I really like the name okay...It's the only way to fit in with the cool kids...
> I'll have to look into tuff river stuff. never heard of them, but always open to new designs


Tuffriverstuff pioneered many of the items other sewn goods places have copied over the years, was started by an Ark river guide that had worked in the awning industry in another life that was disgusted with the expensive straps that degraded in the UV, and we're generally cheaply built. He decided to make better ones, and eventually it turned into a full time business as once people used his gear, they were completely sold on it.

True story, I have some of his straps that are over 25 years old that I bought back when I was a commercial guide, still going strong, not a thing wrong with them..


----------



## westwatercuban (May 19, 2021)

MNichols said:


> Tuffriverstuff pioneered many of the items other sewn goods places have copied over the years, was started by an Ark river guide that had worked in the awning industry in another life that was disgusted with the expensive straps that degraded in the UV, and we're generally cheaply built. He decided to make better ones, and eventually it turned into a full time business as once people used his gear, they were completely sold on it.
> 
> True story, I have some of his straps that are over 25 years old that I bought back when I was a commercial guide, still going strong, not a thing wrong with them..


I was taking a look at their design and I have to say I can see the quality improvement from photos alone. Gonna have to order some to check them out. Thanks for pointing me in this direction. And for the history lesson.


----------



## Wallrat (Jan 19, 2021)

I ran this with it…but probably wouldn’t do that too often. It was a sporty day.


----------



## Wallrat (Jan 19, 2021)

MNichols said:


> Tuffriverstuff pioneered many of the items other sewn goods places have copied over the years, was started by an Ark river guide that had worked in the awning industry in another life that was disgusted with the expensive straps that degraded in the UV, and we're generally cheaply built. He decided to make better ones, and eventually it turned into a full time business as once people used his gear, they were completely sold on it.
> 
> True story, I have some of his straps that are over 25 years old that I bought back when I was a commercial guide, still going strong, not a thing wrong with them..


I’ve got NRS straps that look like crap after one trip. I’ll definitely check him out.


----------



## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

Wallrat said:


> I’ve got NRS straps that look like crap after one trip. I’ll definitely check him out.


Veteran and Boater owned.. River Rat Ray who owns it, is being progressively taken down by Multiple Sclerosis, Sad to watch it happen.. 

I'm sure he'd appreciate the business, and I know you'll appreciate his products..


----------



## westwatercuban (May 19, 2021)

Wallrat said:


> I ran this with it…but probably wouldn’t do that too often. It was a sporty day.


Lifes an adventure, live it to the fullest. That looks like a rad run!


----------



## Wallrat (Jan 19, 2021)

If you bring your new little cat up here, I’ll bring mine and run it with you…just for fun. Beartrap Canyon is the best run in the Bozeman area, and the only real big water we have, most of the year.


----------



## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

Wallrat said:


> If you bring your new little cat up here, I’ll bring mine and run it with you…just for fun.


And I'll bring my round boat, and bag you both out of the water 😂


----------



## westwatercuban (May 19, 2021)

Wallrat said:


> If you bring your new little cat up here, I’ll bring mine and run it with you…just for fun. Beartrap Canyon is the best run in the Bozeman area, and the only real big water we have, most of the year.





MNichols said:


> And I'll bring my round boat, and bag you both out of the water 😂


I'm down! I'll bring the beer. MNichols just get one too and join us 😂


----------



## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

westwatercuban said:


> I'm down! I'll bring the beer. MNichols just get one too and join us 😂


Sorry buddy, I'm round boat sort of guy, and in lieu of a round boat an oblong wooden boat lol but I don't think one would fare very well on that particular stretch


----------



## Sonder (Feb 26, 2021)

Enjoy the craft I had a river tamer 2 for years and had plenty of class 3 rapids n lots of fishing. Then the divorce happened 😆


----------



## westwatercuban (May 19, 2021)

Sonder said:


> Enjoy the craft I had a river tamer 2 for years and had plenty of class 3 rapids n lots of fishing. Then the divorce happened 😆


They always go for what you love the most....Sorry for your loss my friend


----------



## yardsells (Jul 14, 2014)

griz said:


> I believe the test is to rub a little toluene on a spot and see if it turns tacky or not. Tacky = PVC .


Close. MEK is the solvent you meant.


----------



## westwatercuban (May 19, 2021)

yardsells said:


> Close. MEK is the solvent you meant.


If you can even find it..I had to make a repair on my buddies boat...couldn't find MEK anywhere. Something about it being banned? I think I ended up using toluene.


----------



## k2andcannoli (Feb 28, 2012)

I've got an 11' PAC prototype... Really fun and capable little cats. I snapped the frame in half twice running a little waterfall, so I replaced it with a whitewater quality frame from rowframe.com


----------



## westwatercuban (May 19, 2021)

k2andcannoli said:


> View attachment 71730
> 
> View attachment 71729
> I've got an 11' PAC prototype... Really fun and capable little cats. I snapped the frame in half twice running a little waterfall, so I replaced it with a whitewater quality frame from rowframe.com


Okay that’s bad ass!


----------



## yardsells (Jul 14, 2014)

westwatercuban said:


> If you can even find it..I had to make a repair on my buddies boat...couldn't find MEK anywhere. Something about it being banned? I think I ended up using toluene.


MEK isn't banned. It *is* on a DEA list for Meth manufacturing. Unless you're in CA, MEK is readily available. Sunnyside is a brand that is sold in West Marine and most commercial paint distributors.

Your buddies boat that you repaired... was it hypalon or neoprene?

Acetone is also a ketone... in a pinch.


----------



## westwatercuban (May 19, 2021)

yardsells said:


> MEK isn't banned. It *is* on a DEA list for Meth manufacturing. Unless you're in CA, MEK is readily available. Sunnyside is a brand that is sold in West Marine and most commercial paint distributors.
> 
> Your buddies boat that you repaired... was it hypalon or neoprene?
> 
> Acetone is also a ketone... in a pinch.


It was pvc. I couldn’t find it anywhere in my town. Everyone I asked said you couldn’t buy it in Colorado. So I didn’t try to order it given I needed to fix it that weekend.


----------



## climbdenali (Apr 2, 2006)

kengore said:


> As other suggested Tear-Aid or Tenacious Tape products will work well in the bladder. Tear-Aid comes in 2 flavors, type B is best for PVC (vinyl) and type A for urethane. I think they well enough to use as a permanent repair. A standard patch kit for a PVC raft works for repairs on the cover. (PVC fabric and Stabond adhesive) For a field repair on the cover you can usually get by with some gorilla brand duct tape applied to the inside surface.
> 
> I prefer to do a permanent repair at home under ideal conditions. Don't use Tear-Aid for a field repair you hope to replace, it won't come off.


As far as I'm aware, the going repair recommendation from AIRE is:
1. Tear-Aid on the inner bladder.
2. Baseball stitch the exterior.
3. Bring back to AIRE for a permanent fix.

If you use glue, or other solvents on the outer, they won't be able to weld the repair.

I have left Tear-Aid repairs on for multiple seasons, but they do wear off, like wearing a bandaid a little too long. I have not had trouble peeling off tear-aid in the shop to make a more permanent repair, but it does leave some residue. I've easily removed that residue with Toluene, and in a pinch rubbing alcohol (but it takes a little more work). Unless it's a large cut, or if it's in a tricky spot, I typically run with the Tear-Aid til it peels off, then replace with new tear-aid, rather than actually patching the Inners, except for the floors in the SB rafts, which just don't hold onto Tear-Aid that well. I don't try to patch the floors on the river- the nylon face fabric holds too much water to do an effective field patch. Sta-Bond is my glue of choice for the floor inners in the shop, but in the field it's still tear-aid.

For my river repair kit for AIREs I bring Tear-Aid and a curved needle with nylon "thread" (more like 1/16" cord, I guess?). That's it. I've baseball stitched a ~40" T-shaped rip in the Outer before. Funny thing on that one- the hole in the bladder was probably only 3/4" long.


----------

