# Ark river commercial guide school for non guide.



## caverdan (Aug 27, 2004)

Check out Buffalo Joe's. I sent my son to their guide school about 10 years ago and we were both pleased with how much he learned from it. They knew up front that he wasn't going to be a commercial guide and just wanted the experience. They were one of the few we checked with that didn't have a problem with him just going through their school for the fun of it. ( and so he could borrow my boats and take his friends without killing one of them.)


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## shredder-scott (May 21, 2013)

Why go all the way to the ark for the school when you live i front range.

Why not do guide school on clear creek ?


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## kayakfreakus (Mar 3, 2006)

Pretty sure Dvorak rafting does as well, they also do it outside of guide school but looks to be more expensive.

Instructional Seminars | Dvorak Expeditions| Colorado's Best Rafting & Fly Fishing Trips


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## salsasean (Apr 20, 2005)

I believe most companies on the Ark will allow you to go through guide school with zero interest in working for them afterwards,


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## riotstyle (Sep 12, 2007)

Liquid Descent on Clear Creek will let you go through guide school with no intention of becoming a guide. Definitely dont need to go all the way to the Ark when you can take the course much closer to home on Clear Creek. More continuous = better guides and also = more fun.


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## DesertRatonIce (Jan 1, 2015)

If you got the money honey, they'll have the time.


Woke up this morning at 10:13.


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## shredder-scott (May 21, 2013)

What about a company that operates on both cc & ark.....then it may be possible to train on different rivers.

Scott


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## MrScamp (Mar 19, 2013)

I'll second Dvoraks. I was very pleased as a private boater. It cost about $1k ($300 for the guide trainees) but that was for nearly three weeks of training, transportation all over, and food. We did 5 days on DesoGrey, every Ark section, overnights on the Ark, and a SWR class that blew away my previous SWR I took as a kayaker. They follow the water. Other classes have done different rivers. 

I liked the concentration on mulitday skills and I got about 80/20% oars/paddle because I wanted it that way. Lots of other companies I looked into concentrate on paddle boats on Browns because that's what their guides run. It was fun learning how to get a heavy 16ft gear boat down Siedels the first time or stern mount rig down The Numbers. For variety and quality it was excellent. 


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## Randaddy (Jun 8, 2007)

Clear Creek is pretty lame. Find a guide school that teaches rowing and paddling and isn't just for commercial paddle guides. Feel free to PM me for specific recommendations.


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## shredder-scott (May 21, 2013)

Randaddy said:


> Clear Creek is pretty lame. .


Really ?

Have you run black rock ?

Scott


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## Randaddy (Jun 8, 2007)

shredder-scott said:


> Really ?
> 
> Have you run black rock ?
> 
> Scott


Is that what they would spend their time on in guide school?


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## BrianK (Feb 3, 2005)

Clear Creek is a great kayaking (maybe shredder?) river once you get used to it's character. It's an acquired taste, and you can't beat the proximity to Denver. However, I would not put it on a list of great raft rivers. It's fast and tight - so it's much more challenging than the ark, but for my money rafting is better with more water than clear creek normally has. 

That said, if you can guide a raft down black rock you will be fine taking a raft most places.

Take the raft course on the Ark. Learn what you can. Then take those skills back to Clear Creek for practice. Idaho Springs to Kermits or Tunnel 1 down are good beginner Clear Creek runs. Then you can sprinkle in dumont, lower and upper clear creek runs when you get comfortable.


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## Pyranha_burn (Mar 12, 2015)

Randaddy said:


> Clear Creek is pretty lame. Find a guide school that teaches rowing and paddling and isn't just for commercial paddle guides. Feel free to PM me for specific recommendations.


Obviously you don't know what you're talking about Randaddy, calling clear creek lame shows that. Clear creek is the most challenging class Iv Run to commercially guide on. The river is tight fast and technical with only inches of width to make moves. It also boast far greater gradient drop than the Ark, Pouder, Animas runs that are done commercially. That bring said I'd take the first year guides on clear creek and run them against 2nd and 3rd year guides on the ark and the first year guides from clear creek would beat the Ark guides. I will be teaching guides for two different companies one on the ark and one from clear Creek this season, so don't think I'm biased.

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## DesertRatonIce (Jan 1, 2015)

I'm curious. What are the rules for the 3rd year Ark guide vs 1st year clear creek guide? What river and what flows are we talking about? I would love to see this happen. I've been guiding on both rivers for a bit. I have seen equally how good both guides from there respective rivers are. I'm more incline to take a 3rd year just for experience in handling flips, swimmers and carnage, etc. I think both rivers are amazing and whoever learns any type of river skills on the Arkansas or Clear Creek will leave well prepared.

Let's make this competition happen!


Woke up this morning at 10:13.


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## Randaddy (Jun 8, 2007)

Pyranha_burn said:


> Obviously you don't know what you're talking about Randaddy, calling clear creek lame shows that. Clear creek is the most challenging class Iv Run to commercially guide on. The river is tight fast and technical with only inches of width to make moves. It also boast far greater gradient drop than the Ark, Pouder, Animas runs that are done commercially. That bring said I'd take the first year guides on clear creek and run them against 2nd and 3rd year guides on the ark and the first year guides from clear creek would beat the Ark guides. I will be teaching guides for two different companies one on the ark and one from clear Creek this season, so don't think I'm biased.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 9 using Mountain Buzz mobile app



Clear Creek is lame because it's next to the interstate. Clear Creek is lame as a choice for a private boater looking for training because it's almost entirely paddle oriented. Clear Creek is lame because it's practically in the city. Clear Creek is lame because camping sucks there. Clear Creek is lame because after peak it is 25 cfs and is lame. Finally, Clear Creek is lame because it's right next to the interstate. If you want a CDOT worker to be able to stop your raft while they blast a tunnel - guide on Clear Creek.

The whitewater at peak is really fun on Clear Creek but for the OP's interest in learning to raft my opinion is that it's lame.


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## DesertRatonIce (Jan 1, 2015)

Clear creek could be in some trouble this year. No snow means a totally lame season. 


Woke up this morning at 10:13.


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## shredder-scott (May 21, 2013)

Hi

Full discluser I am a big fan of cc.




DesertRatonIce said:


> Clear creek could be in some trouble this year. No snow means a totally lame season.
> .



um...I belive snowpack for cc basin is above 90%




Randaddy said:


> Clear Creek is lame because it's next to the interstate. Clear Creek is lame as a choice for a private boater looking for training because it's almost entirely paddle oriented. Clear Creek is lame because it's practically in the city. Clear Creek is lame because camping sucks there. Clear Creek is lame because after peak it is 25 cfs and is lame. Finally, Clear Creek is lame because it's right next to the interstate. If you want a CDOT worker to be able to stop your raft while they blast a tunnel - guide on Clear Creek.
> 
> The whitewater at peak is really fun on Clear Creek but for the OP's interest in learning to raft my opinion is that it's lame.



Randaddy, I am sorry you feel cc is such a lame run.

You, are accurate in many of your criticism of the cc.

However, for me cc has the following attributes that make it one of my favorites

Cold, fast clear water

Numerous extremely long continuous class III-IV sections, because of this I find cc to be more of a physical fitness challenge than any other class III-IV river I have run. I like the extra challenge 

Ability to pull out for lunch at decent river side resturant....think hot fresh bar b que, and cold draft beer :grin:

Numerous easy put ins and take out, fast efficient shuttles

Shore saftey eaisly set

Virtually entire run can easily be scouted from the road

Fast and easy access to virtually the entire river for emergency responders.

paddle on

Scott


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## Peev (Oct 24, 2003)

Ability to eat lunch at a restaurant? While boating? On I-70?

Ohhhh, Chunderboy would love this shit....


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## shredder-scott (May 21, 2013)

Peev said:


> Ability to eat lunch at a restaurant? While boating? On I-70?
> 
> Ohhhh, Chunderboy would love this shit....


Just for the record......there are significant kayak and raft segments of cc that are nowhere near I 70.

Paddle on

Scott


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## Peev (Oct 24, 2003)

No shit? Huh.


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## livin_tll (Apr 2, 2011)

Clear Creek is a very underrated river in my opinion. About 50 miles of rapids, all pretty easily scouted, easy shuttle, easy emergency response, good cell service the entire way now that the canyon is celled, around 20 class iv rapids, and its close to good food too  Yeah 70 is right next to you for some of it, but the best stuff isn't. Hwy 6 runs along 97% of the canyon but it's a 2 lane road. Same as a large percent of CO rivers. And some of the best guides in the country work on it  Just my 2 cents.


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## Rocky Mtn Outdoor Center (Jul 6, 2004)

Rocky Mountain Outdoor Center will be offering a course for non-guides this summer on the Arkansas River, June 1-12. Cost is $500. Click Here for details.


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