# going small and packing light .... ideas ?



## dscott58 (Nov 4, 2014)

OK ... transitioning from a good tow vech, 14 ft trailer, 15 'Avon, to a 12 ' So tar, and a Honda Fit! Don't want to give up on 3-4 night trips etc...myself and one other ( hopefully by spring anyway )... 
Not a minimilist by nature so would love some ideas on how others have done it .... thanks!

Like the guy who self supported the GC in a mini...


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## Stiff N' Wett (Feb 18, 2010)

Is this a joke? Why would go from a truck that can pull a trailer to a Honda fit.


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## cataraftgirl (Jun 5, 2009)

Nothing wrong with downsizing. Sometimes your life or your goals take you in a new direction. Think of it as a new challenge or adventure and it can be fun. The trick is to think like a backpacker. Small tent or tarp/groundcloth. Light weight pad to sleep on. If you'll be somewhere with ample trees then sleep in a hammock. Super comfy, small, light weight. Backpacking stove & cook kit. No cooler, or small cooler. Get a dehydrator and start making your own meals. Small packable camp chair like a Helinox One, or Travelchair Joey. Get a good filter and filter water as you go if possible. Sawyer Squeeze or Sawyer Mini. I'll be doing 2-3 nighters with a 10 foot Mini-Cat or 13 ft. touring SOT kayak this summer, so I've been getting my UL gear together. I have learned a ton from the UL backpacking crowd about gear selection. You'll be fine on a 12 footer with some planning. Have fun!


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## k2andcannoli (Feb 28, 2012)

Practice drinking warm beer


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## lmyers (Jun 10, 2008)

This site has some good information that pertains to going light whether in a kayak or raft.

Self Support Kayak Camping

Treat it like a backpacking trip and you can get 3-4 people in a 12' raft.


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## mattman (Jan 30, 2015)

Great advice from cataraft girl. Jet boil's are awesome to save space, have heard of metal trash can lids being used as cheap, lightweight fire pan (provided you keep them off the ground somehow). Giving up cold beer would be a hard one,would have to switch to whisky. Have allways brought to much stuff , but trying to figure out how to run multi-days with a small boat for some of the tributaries that look super cool, or bigger runs(that the damn controllers don't allow water to go down) like the dolores ,most years.


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## dscott58 (Nov 4, 2014)

Agreed Matt...warm beer is not an option! One of the
Reasons for the So tart is that I could fit a 105 yeti in it...will start looking at UL sites...
Tire Cat girl on life changing directions sometimes and agree that looking at it as a new adventure is key... will check out some of the items you mentioned... thanks... those were the types of things I was looking for!


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## BilloutWest (Jan 25, 2013)

k2andcannoli said:


> Practice drinking warm beer


Depends on the river.

Location, Location, Location.

Move to a state with good beer where one doesn't need to chill taste buds.


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## restrac2000 (Mar 6, 2008)

dscott58 said:


> Agreed Matt...warm beer is not an option! One of the
> Reasons for the So tart is that I could fit a 105 yeti in it...will start looking at UL sites...
> Tire Cat girl on life changing directions sometimes and agree that looking at it as a new adventure is key... will check out some of the items you mentioned... thanks... those were the types of things I was looking for!


I am just impressed you can fit a rolled 12 footer and a 105 Yeti inside the Honda Fit. Impressive!

As much as "less is more" is an important approach for such boating so is making sure your hard skills are bomber. Specifically those in planning logistics and camp choices. Fewer clothes, UL shelters, etc all require you to be on your A-game. UL shelters often require more skill is setting up so knowing a broader range of knots and pitching techniques is key.

All very attainable and likely already have all the skills. I love my small boat, less gear trips as the provide a very different experience. Hope you have some great adventures with your new setup.

Phillip


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## FrankC (Jul 8, 2008)

Cold beer and steaks for me baby. I didn't spend thousands of dollars on a boat and gear so I could suffer eating freeze dried food on my vacation. Downsizing everything just seems like a big pain in the ass.


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## dscott58 (Nov 4, 2014)

It's going to be tight restract... May have to take out a back seat and or get a bumper hitch... frame and oars on top and I'll be off! Did a lot of 4-5 day backpacking trips growing up around Mt Rainer, and that was forty yrs ago... gear's much better now. I also agree that a smaller simpler outfit may lead to taking more spur of the moment trips vs the production of the larger outfits and more people.


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## GratefulOne (Jun 12, 2010)

yeah scott! I agree... small, light, simple = more trips, in my experience... I go rafting after work. week days... all the time... I spend my time boating and having fun, not rigging and de-rigging... 

( mini max, paddle rig... )


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## Phil U. (Feb 7, 2009)

10' Jackson Rogue, and LL LP10. 2 of us self support with other kayaks on Deso Grey. We carried a cooler with dry ice. Jet boil, lobster, shrimp, steak, pesto chicken, salmon, turkey, fresh veggies. The meals were mostly precooked and frozen. Breakdown firepan with grill, groover tube, tent, sheets, pillows, chairs. Yup, we had to pack tighter and more carefully than a raft but we were living large. I plan to glue in layers of mini cell behind the bulkhead and make a built in cooler for this year's trips.


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## 2kanzam (Aug 1, 2012)

When I'm bckpacking, exchanging cornwhiskey for beer goes along way, obviously (I prefer my cornwhisky neat and warm). Also unrefrigerateds item to eat so you don't have to carry a cooler. Think dry sausages (like soprasseta) and hard cheeses (like parmesan), oatmeal w/ TVP dried fruit and nuts, flavored foil packed tuna, pita bread, peanut butter, honey, jerky and even olive oil to drink (just a lil bit).

Other things I try to adhere to: Only 2 sets of synthetic clothes (not including outerwear), hammock, water filter and I LOVE my helinox chair!


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## geobucket (Oct 16, 2009)

If you have backpacking or bike touring experience, you'll have no issues in a 12'er for two. Just need to decide where to splurge with all the stuff you can carry. In reality, I can and do carry a _lot_ more on my small raft than I ever could on my back or bike.

Still looking for a good chair to replace my REI folder (slowly going bad) so I appreciate the above comments on these.


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## no_big_deal (Apr 3, 2013)

We're not downsizing, but starting small instead. Just purchased a used mini-max and are thinking about documenting the entire build on MB.

The choice to go small was driven mostly by the need for everything to fit in the ambulance we live in during the summers. For us, just the ability to go boating on our own is vacation enough, no need for steaks/pounds of ice (...yet). Plus, having your kit dialed enough to fit in a 10.5 foot boat is pretty sick.

Good move on the 12ft! That size is perfect. Multi-day trip, huck with the hard boaters, or surf at a play spot.


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## dscott58 (Nov 4, 2014)

Sounds like you're having fun, and keeping it simple. I spent a couple years off and on in a long bed 63' Govt van that we got from a GSA auction in the late sixties ($640)... ski bumming, beaches, kayaking, (even what would be downtown Vail now). Never owned enough to have to worry about over crowding! Looking backk , those trips were as much fun as anything I've done lately with all the comforts of home... Good Luck Did you get the Orange Mini Max that was listed here a few months ago? By the time I decided to go for it , it was gone...


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## cataraftgirl (Jun 5, 2009)

Here's some pictures of my 12 foot Hyside that I used to have. I sure miss that little raft, it was a hoot. Sold it and my 14 ft. cataraft to buy my 14 ft. Sotar raft. These pics are from a 7 day Deso trip. I had one dry box and a 52 Qt. cooler on the raft.

On the chairs....The Helinox and the TravelChair Joey are pretty much the same except the Joey is about 2 inches taller. I got the Joey because I have a bum knee, and getting in & out of it was easier. The new Joey models have a better foot on them now, with a wider base to prevent sinking in the sand. These are really nice, comfy camp chairs that pack up really small.


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## glenn (May 13, 2009)

... it takes rafters to purchase more gear to carry less gear.


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## dscott58 (Nov 4, 2014)

Thanks for the heads up... looks like the helinox chair will be on my list ...That 14 ' Sotar sure looks nice, but looking forward to a small boat for a while at least, looked at the 13, but it seemed too big to be small and too small to be big... sometimes life just needs simplifying... have gotten some great tips here... Check out Lucy lights... I ordered a couple along with a 1lb refillable propane tank that was rec'd...


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## lmyers (Jun 10, 2008)

These items are in my light weight arsenal, and worth looking at:

REI Igneo Sleeping Bag - REI.com

SynMat UL 7 LW | Exped USA

Products - Katadyn Products Inc.

http://www.jetboil.com/Products/Flash-Cooking-System-Carbon/

Looking to upgrade my tent from the 4 pound Coleman Peak 1 Cobra to something closer to 2 pounds soon...


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## cataraftgirl (Jun 5, 2009)

I got the Exped Synmat 7 and a Sierra Designs Lightning UL tent for Christmas. The tent is a two person, so under 4 lb. but packs pretty darn small. If trees are on the menu, then I'll use my hammock set-up for sure. Way more comfy than the pad & tent. The biggest hurdle for rafters (other than the beer cooler thing) is the groover & fire pan regulations.


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## mervo (Dec 29, 2014)

10.5 foot JPW Fatboy owner here. It fits me, wife and 18 month old for multi-day trips. 

Then again we're climbers and being able to bring a MSR luxury lite cot is 5 star camping for us. We don't drink beer, (1 bottle of vodka or tequila) and we can still bring the steaks and fresh veggies and cook on a biolite grill, we feel like living the highlife! 

It's all your perspective.


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## bluebtr (May 27, 2011)

dscott58 said:


> Thanks for the heads up... looks like the helinox chair will be on my list ...That 14 ' Sotar sure looks nice, but looking forward to a small boat for a while at least, looked at the 13, but it seemed too big to be small and too small to be big... sometimes life just needs simplifying... have gotten some great tips here... Check out Lucy lights... I ordered a couple along with a 1lb refillable propane tank that was rec'd...


Go with a cat. I have a 12.5 SOtar Legend with a larger frame that will hold 2 dry boxes a 110 qt cooler and room for bags ,fire pans etc. that's 72'' wide. And I am building a frame that's 60'' wide for skinny low water rivers that will be set up for back packing gear. I learned that light is right when I ran the Selway at 1.4 ft. It was one of the best trips ever. Nobody loves cases of beer and crab legs more than me. But going light with a small rig is just as awesome.


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## dscott58 (Nov 4, 2014)

Meyers showed me a good video of kayakers self supporting the GC, used a PVC pipe for a Grover, pretty cool. I have an old fire pan I like and a good hiking tent and exped... never was able to get comfortable in a hammock, don't know why...if I go the vodka route , its going to entail a lot of olives and tomato juice... but that would also take care of my veggie needs so maybe a good idea?
Can't belive all the info being passed on, a
I thought rafting was just all about taking everything! Actually really starting to look forward to this ... thanks all!!


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## bluebtr (May 27, 2011)

dscott58 said:


> ...if I go the vodka route , its going to entail a lot of olives and tomato juice... but that would also take care of my veggie needs so maybe a good idea?


Well ifn you REALLY want to go light ... try powdered countrytime lemonade with the Vodka, and catch up on the veggies when you get home


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## Andy H. (Oct 13, 2003)

glenn said:


> ... it takes rafters to purchase more gear to carry less gear.


Good one, Glenn.

I've supported 6 peeps in a 12' paddleboat (only one kayaker) for a highwater deso trip and we did just fine; on the nights we didn't have steak no one complained. We planned and shopped all meals in Vernal the morning we launched, there wasn't a foil packet of freeze-dried anything on the boat. 

River temperature is good for beer on most trips, and you can make do with less ice by pre-cooling the brews in the rio and then chilling them in a bucket of meltwater from when you drain that 48 qt Coleman. Drinking quality beer and doing so in moderation go a long way when ice is limited.

And when all else fails, the ice is long-gone and the river is tepid and muddy, thou shalt abide by the maxim, "The warmest beer I ever had was cold enough for me."

Enjoy your trips on the smaller boat.

-AH


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## dgoods (Jul 15, 2013)

Is the trip about gear and food or about the river and the canyon? For me, its the latter. Travel simply and safely:
Two burner/break apart hinge partner stove w/composite propane tank-or Jet-boil
Ultra-light 2-3" inflatable nylon pads
Down bag
Mega-light/mid or ultralight tent if buggy
Good quality whiskey
Really look at your menu planning- use a small, efficient cooler, pre-cook what you can
Katadyn Gravity Filter
Focus on exploration- not meal prep and getting plastered.


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## dscott58 (Nov 4, 2014)

Checked out the biolite grill someone mentioned ... pretty cool gear and a company with a great mission... anyone use a kelly kettle... really like mine and they come in different sizes. A few sticks and twigs and I have hot coffee and oatmeal in the am..,.


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## sauksister (Jul 23, 2014)

We have a 12' sotar - seems like the perfect size for us (two adults, two kids). Granted, we've been doing mostly day trips but like many here our camping experiences have been with backpacking and trying to reduce our carrying weight by the ounce; just part of the fun. We also like being able to get out of the car and go - less gear=less hassle. Beer - I've seen a 64 oz insulated beer growler that supposedly keeps beer cool for 48 hours (if it lasts that long). Small and light weight and holds water in the morning (hydro-flask). Good goin' packing the raft into the honda - it will fit with no seats in the back. We have tried it in the trunk of a honda accord but it didn't quite make it. Great thread!


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## dscott58 (Nov 4, 2014)

Thanks Sauksister.... was surprised at how many people here were doing the lightweight thing. Like you say going the backing route , over nights even with four should be doable... and easier on the back!


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