# Back deck roll without tearing out my shoulder



## Dodgington (Dec 2, 2007)

As someone with shoulder problems as well, my trick is to keep the elbow in. My shoulder will pop every time if my elbow is out, but is fine if I keep it in. Hope this helps


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## erdvm1 (Oct 17, 2003)

Not trying to be a smart ass but weight training will reduce the stress on your tendons/ligaments and make back deck rolls easier and safer.
also if you feel something weird stop the back deck roll and go to a c to c instead of forcing through it.
The back deck roll is a very good roll to have but knowing it increases your exposure to trauma and injury is very important.


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## gh (Oct 13, 2003)

There are many videos that show it done without extending the arms that far. I can backdeck quickly without extending my arms and staying in the kayaker box, so to speak. More like what this guy does.
YouTube - Back Deck Rodeo Roll Indentifier.
i like this video better, click on the rolling a kayak video, more info tab
Videos


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## gnat (Apr 17, 2008)

*keep those elbows tucked in!!*

Save your shoulder! Try it with the elbows tucked into your side and the paddle shaft in front of your chest. I find that when I do this I am able to keep my head dry as I do the roll and my shoulder is very safe. I think that keeping the elbows in is the single best piece of advice that I can give for any roll, be it back deck, rodeo, sweep or c to c. It makes the rolls faster, more reliable, and safer.


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## jonny water (Oct 28, 2003)

The back deck roll should only be used when playboating. Yeah its fast but as mentioned, you are exposing your face to potential hazards. It was initially used to roll quickly after ENDERING! Yea!


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## Mike Harvey (Oct 10, 2003)

first of all what in God's name is that guy doing (you tube vid) passing his head by Spelious' nether regions while he is rocking a speedo???....no one is ever going to convince me that posting a video of myself in a speedo on You Tube is a good idea and if I am holding a man's hands in pool, he better have proper trunks on.... 

anyway...I disagree that the back deck roll is necessarily worse for your shoulder than any other roll. It is faster and smoother and so it exposes you to less injury if it is done properly. Video yourself and post it up so we can see what you are doing. 

Off the top of my head...most people do not bring their head far enough forward to finish the roll, that will help you take weight off the blade of your paddle and stress on your shoulder. Remember with any roll or any other stroke, it is bad to treat your paddle like a walking stick and put a lot of pressure on it while leaning over. 

Get the motion dialed with your body and allow your paddle to guide the motion, keep your elbows tight and follow through until you are almost kissing your deck. That guy in your video stops mid way and just does a regular c to c.

that's all I got...say no to speedo...


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## nmalozzi (Jun 19, 2007)

Mike Harvey said:


> first of all what in God's name is that guy doing (you tube vid) passing his head by Spelious' nether regions while he is rocking a speedo???....no one is ever going to convince me that posting a video of myself in a speedo on You Tube is a good idea and if I am holding a man's hands in pool, he better have proper trunks on....
> 
> anyway...I disagree that the back deck roll is necessarily worse for your shoulder than any other roll. It is faster and smoother and so it exposes you to less injury if it is done properly. Video yourself and post it up so we can see what you are doing.
> 
> ...


yea i noticed that too... why does he need to wear a speedo and a shorty top? if it is warm enough to rock a speedo you can prolly take the top off, haha. although on second thought, if he wasn't wearing it i might puke a little.


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## Mike Harvey (Oct 10, 2003)

nmalozzi said:


> yea i noticed that too... why does he need to wear a speedo and a shorty top? if it is warm enough to rock a speedo you can prolly take the top off, haha. although on second thought, if he wasn't wearing it i might puke a little.


yeah seriously, t-shirt and panties=sexy when your wife wakes up on Sunday morning, not sexy when practicing rolling with a 200lb+ dude in a pool...just sayin'...


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## bobbuilds (May 12, 2007)

*back deck roll*

what fucked your shoulder up is what you did in the video you posted, in your video, he pulls down with his arm fully extendeded and his torso was over the boat the whole time. you need to lead the roll with your body not your paddle. do like the guy in gh video with some hand assistance and you will feel the body motion better, dont pick up your knee either, you will see what I mean after you try it.


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## routter (Mar 10, 2004)

> The back deck roll should only be used when playboating. Yeah its fast but as mentioned, you are exposing your face to potential hazards. It was initially used to roll quickly after ENDERING! Yea!


I've seen this BS espoused before. The best roll when creeking is the one that gets you up safely AND quickly. Clearly, you don't want to be floating face-down over mank, but you also don't necessarily want to be drifting into your next big class V move studiously setting up your C-C. 

There is no specific paradigm as to when you should or should not use a specific roll. A good paddler with a good feel for the water innately knows what roll he should be hitting at that particular time. 

I personally use a back deck often while creeking; and if you ask lotsawater's wife she will be sure to tell you that I'm still strikingly more handsome than he.


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## boofyak (May 30, 2005)

*Be strong!*

Just my two bits worth, be aggressive with your gut! Yes, keep your elbow tight (I try to bring my right elbow to my left shoulder, try to choke yourself with your bicep), but when it comes time to pull through, don't pull down with your paddle, instead, think about doing a stomach crunch. The 'crunch' pulls the blade through the water and completes the roll, and if you don't complete the roll, it has you set up leaning forward (safer position) so you're ready for your 'normal' roll!


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## KSC (Oct 22, 2003)

I agree with the majority here. Keep the paddle shaft head level or below and elbows in and it will not put undo stress on the shoulders. 

I just learned the back deck roll last season and have been working on making it more automatic over the winter. What I found was that when I first learned it, I learned it like the guy in your video. You get more leverage reaching out and it makes it easier. After reading up more on the roll I realized I needed to learn to keep my shoulders lower. Once you have the movement, this is easy to refine. Most of the roll comes from the torso and you only need apply a small amount of pressure to the blades. 

After training myself to go to this roll in the pool, on the river I now find myself going to this roll all the time and wish I'd learned it earlier in my kayaking career. The reliable speed of the roll has me sold. Not to say there's no place for your standard sweep/c-c, but I'm really enjoying having the backdeck in the arsenal. That's my pitch to not write it off just yet.


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## David Spiegel (Sep 26, 2007)

Keep your elbows in a box while you do it. If you reach out with your arms you are putting a lot of pressure on your shoulder and basically doing a high brace.

I would also agree that it is sometimes acceptable to use a back deck style roll while creeking. Obviously don't use it in a place full of shallow mank but there are times where the fastest roll is the best roll. Really, there comes a point where you roll from whatever position you flip in, never mind the name. It might be a labeled roll or just a jumbled combination of techniques or even just a huge hip snap/push with little technique. So yeah, I think the 'no back deck while creeking' theory is not really useful. It depends on your situation at the time, make your own call.


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