# Non-rafter looking for expert advice on creek crossing



## Andy H. (Oct 13, 2003)

Jake,

It sounds like you're considering crossing Clear Creek in Clear Creek Canyon. Depending on where you go, you are considering a potentially fatal swim in ice-cold water in anywhere between Class II and Class V rapids. If you've never swam a rapid, it's easy to underestimate the power of moving water and swimming that kind of water is strongly discouraged even with the proper gear. 

You may want to check out packrafts. These open up a whole new world for hikers. Otherwise, you may be able to arrange a ferry across with some boaters in a raft.

Good luck and be safe,

-AH


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## griz (Sep 19, 2005)

Are you looking for hidden treasure?

With this year's "snowpack", if you wait a couple weeks, the river bed will probably be burning along with the rest of the state so time your adventure carefully.


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## JakeCCC (May 21, 2018)

Andy H. said:


> Jake,
> 
> It sounds like you're considering crossing Clear Creek in Clear Creek Canyon. Depending on where you go, you are considering a potentially fatal swim in ice-cold water in anywhere between Class II and Class V rapids. If you've never swam a rapid, it's easy to underestimate the power of moving water and swimming that kind of water is strongly discouraged even with the proper gear.
> 
> ...


Hey Andy! Thanks so much for the reply.

I'm a strong swimmer (NCAA collegiate swimmer) and I've done Pumphouse to the State Bridge in an innertube and no PFD, but I'd like to think I'm smarter now. In any case, if I thought I was going to end up swimming in Clear Creek, there's no way I'd do it given the hazards... like you said, water temps mean quick hypothermia along with rocks, strainers, etc.

There are some pretty slow-moving areas along the creek right now with no exposed rocks, so it looks pretty tame if you pick your spot, but I'm pretty naive and inexperienced so I could be deluding myself.

I've looked at packrafts, but they seem to be targeting the low-weight crowd where this isn't an issue for me since I'm driving up to the creek. I could use something a lot bigger and more robust if that increased my safety. Also, I wouldn't mind a motorized-pump for inflation.

To your last point: how would I go about arranging for a ferry across from a company? I could call a rafting outfit that does Clear Creek, but I worry about scheduling the trip back... getting stranded would suck.

(There is a cable tyrolean about a mile-downstream, if all else fails I guess.)


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## NoCo (Jul 21, 2009)

*try a zorb ball*

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V294tdGdkbk

make sure you post this impending disaster on youtube for us all to enjoy!


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## raymo (Aug 10, 2008)

*Came to the right place;*

What you are describing, does not sound like a good idea at your skill level. Early flows this time of year on Clear Creek are very dangerous, the fast and extremely cold water, along with rocks and boulders that brake fingers, wrists, arms, legs, heads etc. when propelled into them, is not a good mix of conditions. I pissed on an electric fence one time and for two weeks my girlfriend asked if there was something wrong with our relationship, I said there sure is, I did something really stupid.


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## GeoRon (Jun 24, 2015)

Not only are you likely to lose your life, more importantly, you might lose your rack of climbing gear. I assume that is why you want to cross Clear Ck.

Everyone is expressing appropriate concern for a reason.

With appropriate practice, in an appropriate boat(not a blue light special), at the appropriate location; what you are asking about is not out of the question. Accept for the lack of background in whitewater, you sound very competent and it should not take long for you develop the skill and river sense that will permit you to do what you want to do.


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## JakeCCC (May 21, 2018)

Thanks everyone for the comments. I realize you are not expressing concern to put me down or denigrate my abilities, but rather to encourage a responsible and safe (as possible) approach. 

I found a ferry spot along the creek today that looks really tame: huge eddys on both sides and a deep slow center. But of course I realize I'm probably being dumb thinking it's "easy" to cross there. And the runout is terrible: if I tried to cross and got pushed downstream, it immediately becomes Class 5 which would be... bad.

---

*Current Plan:* I'm really psyched about this. My current plan (no pun) is to find a kayaking expert (how hard could this be in Colorado?) and hire her/him to help me find an appropriate boat, then spend a few hours with me on slow water and then finally do this crossing with me if/when I'm ready.

*Question:* Where is a good place to hire such a guide/teacher? Are these forums appropriate?


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## JakeCCC (May 21, 2018)

Following up: I called the owner at Rennaisance Guides (Kayak, Stand Up Paddleboarding, and Instructor Training in Denver, Colorado :: Renaissance Adventure Guides) and talked to him about hiring a guide for a 1/2 day. The guide would give me some basic lessons, help me choose a vessel, drive out to the crossing with me and advise me on what I need to know.

He seemed to think we could do this in a safe and competent way, so I'm pretty psyched. Thanks to all who responded!


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## griz (Sep 19, 2005)

So what's the hurry? Just wait a month and wade across. Or is that too much common sense for everyone?


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## JakeCCC (May 21, 2018)

griz said:


> So what's the hurry? Just wait a month and wade across. Or is that too much common sense for everyone?


The creek is currently at 450 cfs. Next month, if we follow historic patterns, it will be double that. At peak, it will hit 1500-1600 cfs in midsummer, and won't get down to 100 cfs (which is where I feel safe wading the creek) until September.

https://nwis.waterdata.usgs.gov/co/...365&begin_date=2017-07-25&end_date=2018-05-21


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## GeoRon (Jun 24, 2015)

Obviously, first ascent fever? Just looking at a beautiful crag with no recorded first ascents results in uncontrollable urges. Been there, been afflicted.

Jake, I suggest that you go into Golden River Sports or Confluence Kayaks and ask about developing your paddling skills. They can put you in touch with a kayak school. Renaissance is one that I'm familiar with and is excellent. In that school, in a few weekends, you will learn all of the basic strokes and most of the river sense necessary to cross a creek safely at a location you describe(sedate). Who knows, perhaps a new affliction may result. As they used to say, "Old climbers don't die, they just paddle away." 

I suggest for a boat that you purchase what is called a ducky, aka inflatable kayak. Very, very stable. A boat that I would recommend is not as cheap as you might like. Paying for a decent ducky might cool your jets a bit. Getting a less than decent one might be next to the last bad decision you ever make. Putting it in the water and pushing off the bank might be your last. 

Of course you will need a paddle. I strongly recommend a helmet but your climbing helmet would be adequate. I suggest a dry bag for your gear.

Developing your skills and purchasing the appropriate gear is what you need to do, similar to your experience in climbing I assume. Once you get your boat, take it to a few places for practice runs and especially ferrying practice.

However, as Griz suggests. It won't be long before the river will be trickle, especially this year. However, wading a river at the wrong location with a pack on ones back has resulted in many body recoveries.


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## JakeCCC (May 21, 2018)

Thanks so much Ron!

I posted yesterday that I had contacted Renaissance and was scheduling a lesson with a guide who would drive out to the crossing with me and help me assess, plus learn some skills and advise on a ducky to purchase.

But my last two posts haven't shown up here, awaiting mod attention, perhaps due to the fact they had links (the first was a link to Renaissance, the second to USGS river data). Or it may be that I'm posting too much for a newbie and the site doesn't like it.

In any case, I think I'm in good hands now... thanks gents!

P.S. The post with USGS data was noting that the flow on Clear Creek remains high through August, historically, so waiting a month would probably not be a strategy.


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## luckylauren (Apr 3, 2016)

I'd encourage you to be mindful of how your decisions may impact other folks.

You have a whole thread of seasoned and trained professionals who are trying to, in the nicest way possible, tell you that this is not a great idea/decision.

Just remember, if something were to happen, will you have a friend/safety there who will be forced into a rescue situation. Will this friend have the adequate skills to assist? If no friend, do you have the skills to act in a self rescue?

What about Search and Rescue? While they are professionals and may have the skills to assist, I am sure participating in a rescue that can result in bodily injury or death isn't very high on their list of things they want out of their shift. And I'm quite certain that participating in body recoveries are even lower on that priority list.

There's that age old saying, Don't know, don't go.

Good luck on getting your education, and just know, turning around is always an option and never something to be embarrassed about.


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## griz (Sep 19, 2005)

JakeCCC said:


> P.S. The post with USGS data was noting that the flow on Clear Creek remains high through August, historically, so waiting a month would probably not be a strategy.


Historically , we don't have such a low, shitty snowpack, too.

Seems like allot of fuss and expense over something you can wade or take a stupid $5 inner tube over with a little patience.

Anyway, good luck finding your buried treasure, dude.


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## cayo 2 (Apr 20, 2007)

Yeah ,it seems like you, and others giving advice,are making this out to be much more dangerous and difficult than is necessary.If you are a climber and ex- collegiate swimmer ,then I would think you are fit and have a high fear threshold.The only real skills you need are,good judgement on where to cross and understanding eddies and ferrying.The creek ain't that wide .Even on Black Rock there are class 2 spots.I saved a lady's dog that was stuck on the other side of the creek once right below Black Rock rapid(V).I was just looking at the rapid ,on the way home from an upstream run.The lady saw a ducky sticking out of my vehicle and recruited me to get the lab.The dog was pretty cooperative until I let go of him and tried to exit the eddy,he would jump out back onto the same bank.Finally,I just threw the dog out into the deep current while the lady called him eenthusiasically .He swam and ferried perfectly and caught the eddy slightly downstream like a slalom champion.The dog and owner were very happily reunited.All the dog had to do was overcome fear and do what comes naturally.The crossing is not that hard.Use a drybag with extra air trapped in it as a flotation device ,wear a life jacket and good shoes.Don't do it above dangerous rapids.You could use an innertube .Go tubing on something easier and practice ferrying.You only have to cover a short distance look for a place with one or more eddies on the other side and put in a little upriver.


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## JakeCCC (May 21, 2018)

Thanks Cayo. Of course I felt like this shouldn't be that hard, but so many people telling me I'm gonna die has given me pause.

This is the crossing I picked out: huge eddys on opposite banks, but a deep channel in the middle. It's at most 25' across the creek, and the moving part of the water is maybe 8' across. It probably goes Class 3 immediately downstream of this however.


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## cayo 2 (Apr 20, 2007)

I am not trying to encourage anybody to do anything foolhardy .That looks very doable to me,easier than I had even envisioned.You mentioned a cable,the only one I know of on C C is right by Double Knife rapid,the best rapid on the Kermit's to 119 run( you definitely don't want to swim that).Is this photo in the stretch just above it?Swimming across at the water level shown in the picture looks easy,but it looks like it would be pushier there at high fows.


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## DoStep (Jun 26, 2012)

Get the IK. Wear a pfd and tie your gear to the boat. Rent a couple models for your first few crossings until you ID which boat you like. They have a quick learning curve and are very stable. Practice ferrying a few times in flatter water downstream before you head up the canyon.


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## JakeCCC (May 21, 2018)

cayo 2 said:


> I am not trying to encourage anybody to do anything foolhardy .That looks very doable to me,easier than I had even envisioned.You mentioned a cable,the only one I know of on C C is right by Double Knife rapid,the best rapid on the Kermit's to 119 run( you definitely don't want to swim that).Is this photo in the stretch just above it?Swimming across at the water level shown in the picture looks easy,but it looks like it would be pushier there at high fows.


Lol, yup, I'm amazed you recognized that from one picture! 

This is about 1 mile upstream from the cable tyrolean (which is just west of Tunnel 2). It's right where the "6" badge is on the map below.


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## elkhaven (Sep 11, 2013)

Thank you cayo for putting this into perspective and great job on the pic Jake... I've kept my mouth shut because I have no experience with the water way being discussed, but I've been thinking what you want to do should be totally doable. I do this a lot for hunting access, it's not insanely difficult and that spot looks doable, but again I don't know what's down stream, just what you said.

I would suggest a very different tool for the job however. I'd do it in a kickboat, personal pontoon boat, mini cat, what ever you want to call them. They are easy in, easy out, carry gear and are much more stable than an IK. I'd row across what I see in that picture if Angel falls were 50 feet down stream. Get/borrow a little pontoon boat and practice in some moving water, figure out ferrying angles and how things change when you cross eddy lines and such. It should be totally doable. Only you know your limits practice somewhere safe until your confident... then check your limits and see if your well within them. That's my 2C.


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## raymo (Aug 10, 2008)

*Sage's fishing hole;*

By your picture and your description on the map, you posted. That is Sage's fishing hole on highway 6 not on highway 119, it is only 3/4 of a mile to one mile from a new foot bridge at Clear Creek Trail Head that crosses Clear Creek, easy hike with 30 lb. of gear. You are right it is only about 1 mile from cable Tyolean which is under Mission Wall at tunnel 3 and not tunnel 2, which I have climbed 4 times back in the 70's and still popular with climber's today, I don't know if the cable is still there though. I use to hunt north of tunnel 3 in Elk Creek ,beautiful country and quite a number, of Big Horn Sheep, of course you could not hunt them back than. Have fun in your adventure and be safe.


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## JakeCCC (May 21, 2018)

raymo said:


> By your picture and your description on the map, you posted. That is Sage's fishing hole on highway 6 not on highway 119, it is only 3/4 of a mile to one mile from a new foot bridge at Clear Creek Trail Head that crosses Clear Creek, easy hike with 30 lb. of gear. You are right it is only about 1 mile from cable Tyolean which is under Mission Wall at tunnel 3 and not tunnel 2, which I have climbed 4 times back in the 70's and still popular with climber's today, I don't know if the cable is still there though. I use to hunt north of tunnel 3 in Elk Creek ,beautiful country and quite a number, of Big Horn Sheep, of course you could not hunt them back than. Have fun in your adventure and be safe.


Hi Raymo,

Yeah, it's Clear Creek along Hwy 6 (see my photo above which shows the "6" badge on the map).

I checked out options for hiking the south bank either from the Mission Wall tyrolean or back from the bridge, but there's no trail and there are cliff barriers that prevent passage in both directions.

There was no cable at Mission in the 70s. It was all rope tyroleans through the 90s but someone kept removing them. In 2000, six different ropes went up and someone cut all six down. Finally JCOS gave permission for a steel cable and it has remained in place nearly 17 years now. A 2nd steel cable went in last month (for some reason) so now there are 2 at Mission Wall. 

And Mission is just west of Tunnel 2, which has Wall of the 90s, Monkey House, Irok, Wannabe, and a bunch of other formations. Tunnel 3 is very close, maybe 200 meters upstream, and hosts Anarchy Wall.


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## raymo (Aug 10, 2008)

*Tyrolean traverse;*

Hi jakeCCC; I'm impressed sound's like you climb, very nice. Always nice to talk to another climber. I understand your information about the Tyrolean cable ( fancy name for a zip line) that is used in rock climbing, mountain rescue, caving, tree climbing etc. to get from point A to point B, designed with steel cable or rope. Back in the 70's when I climbed Mission Wall there was a steel cable line, midway between tunnel 2 and tunnel 3 suspended between two trees (Tyrolean traverse, zip line, call it what you like) that traversed Clear Creek and had a wooden cart suspended by a single pulley. Someone used it for something, who knows for what purpose. Glad to hear they installed two steel cables for traversing Clear Creek. Wall of the 90's above tunnel 2 has some challenging routs like Double Snout, Centerfold, Hellcats, Horlots to name a few. Than if you traverse the river to reach Mission Wall, Genesis Route, Billy The Kid are always way fun. How many times have you climbed Mission Wall or Wall Of The 90's. You still have not explained why you want to cross Clear Creek at Sage's Fishing Hole or should I mine my own business.


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## mkashzg (Aug 9, 2006)

luckylauren said:


> I'd encourage you to be mindful of how your decisions may impact other folks.
> 
> You have a whole thread of seasoned and trained professionals who are trying to, in the nicest way possible, tell you that this is not a great idea/decision.
> 
> ...



There is another that says 'you got to go to know!'


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## JakeCCC (May 21, 2018)

raymo said:


> Hi jakeCCC; I'm impressed sound's like you climb, very nice. Always nice to talk to another climber. I understand your information about the Tyrolean cable ( fancy name for a zip line) that is used in rock climbing, mountain rescue, caving, tree climbing etc. to get from point A to point B, designed with steel cable or rope. Back in the 70's when I climbed Mission Wall there was a steel cable line, midway between tunnel 2 and tunnel 3 suspended between two trees (Tyrolean traverse, zip line, call it what you like) that traversed Clear Creek and had a wooden cart suspended by a single pulley. Someone used it for something, who knows for what purpose. Glad to hear they installed two steel cables for traversing Clear Creek. Wall of the 90's above tunnel 2 has some challenging routs like Double Snout, Centerfold, Hellcats, Horlots to name a few. Than if you traverse the river to reach Mission Wall, Genesis Route, Billy The Kid are always way fun. How many times have you climbed Mission Wall or Wall Of The 90's. You still have not explained why you want to cross Clear Creek at Sage's Fishing Hole or should I mine my own business.


Hey Raymo!

I've climbed in that area countless times now, but I'm trying to get to New Economy Cliff, which is about 1 mile upstream near that photo I posted. There are some lines I'd like to climb there and normally that cliff is hard to climb because


In Summer it's perfect but the creek can't be crossed with waders
In Winter you can walk across the frozen creek, but the cliff faces north and is too cold to climb

So people only climb in late August through September when the creek can be waded but it's not too cold yet. A really short season, even though Summer is perfect.

I figured I'd learn a little bit about whitewater and get competent enough to cross in summer. I'm learning so much about water now that I might get seduced into kayaking this summer instead of climbing now!


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## cayo 2 (Apr 20, 2007)

I hope you do get into boating! 
Another approach you could try is a wilderness survival book having nothing to do with boating.I have a book by Hugh McManners ,a former British commando and survival expert,sort of a military Bear Grills,where he tells how to improvise and overcome all sorts of survival situations including crossing big rivers and gnarly creeks.


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## raymo (Aug 10, 2008)

*JakeCCC;*

Your going to become and excellent kayaker. I have never met a kayaker on the river that ever refused to have a six pack or two, of beer's with me. Get to it and stay with it and you will love it. Have fun and enjoy. Nice chatting with you.


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## JakeCCC (May 21, 2018)

Hey all, just to put a finishing note on this thread, I did end up getting a lesson in a ducky on some fairly tame whitewater in Golden CO with a guide. I probably did 10-15 practice ferries in water much faster than what I aimed to cross in the photo posted above in this thread. In the end, I opted to abandon my project, however, because the expense (a ducky, pfd, dry bag, pump, wetsuit, etc) was going to hit $1000 just to cross 10' of water.

However, I've caught the bug again this spring and I'm once again thinking of ways I might get across. Anyway, thanks again to everyone who helped me back in 2018!


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## raymo (Aug 10, 2008)

*just becare full!*



JakeCCC said:


> Hey all, just to put a finishing note on this thread, I did end up getting a lesson in a ducky on some fairly tame whitewater in Golden CO with a guide. I probably did 10-15 practice ferries in water much faster than what I aimed to cross in the photo posted above in this thread. In the end, I opted to abandon my project, however, because the expense (a ducky, pfd, dry bag, pump, wetsuit, etc) was going to hit $1000 just to cross 10' of water.
> 
> However, I've caught the bug again this spring and I'm once again thinking of ways I might get across. Anyway, thanks again to everyone who helped me back in 2018!


Thought you might enjoy seeing some my old climbing gear from the 70's that I used to climb some of the routes we spoke of in Clear Creek Canyon earlier. Hope it all works out for you, play it safe.


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## Ever_Cat (Jan 20, 2009)

Ha, that looks a lot like my old rack Raymo. Brings back many great memories.


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## JakeCCC (May 21, 2018)

raymo said:


> Thought you might enjoy seeing some my old climbing gear from the 70's that I used to climb some of the routes we spoke of in Clear Creek Canyon earlier. Hope it all works out for you, play it safe.


Yeah, you were climbing about a decade before me! I do have hexes though! 

I'm trying to get to some of the really good 5.12's on the other side of Clear Creek. Still kinda obsessed with the idea, but everyone's telling me I'm gonna die unless I spend $1000 on a ducky (instead of $100 on a cheap raft). So yeah... giving up.


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## DoStep (Jun 26, 2012)

Oh Jeez shut up and get your asses across the river with your climbing gear gear you lame ass dirtbags!!


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## Awbcolorado (Feb 18, 2018)

Get a spud. $400 bucks brand new.


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## missiongravity (Jun 10, 2007)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hknVoAoyy-k


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## HitMcG (Jun 6, 2018)

Thanks for this MG. Well played.


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