# Buy life insurance!



## kazak4x4 (May 25, 2009)

I second the advice. I did just that 2 years ago. Now that 6 foot hole doesn't look as dangerous to me.


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## hnw2 (Jan 14, 2009)

Bump. 
And, as basic as it sounds, health insurance. If you can't afford that, you can't afford to boat.


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## Flying_Spaghetti_Monster (Jun 3, 2010)

Yeah I need to get on the ball, and get life insurance.


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## Randaddy (Jun 8, 2007)

My physical is Wednesday. I hope I pass.


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## MountainMedic (Apr 24, 2010)

Up, for the wee ones that get left behind when the river gets hungry.


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## El Flaco (Nov 5, 2003)

Randaddy said:


> My physical is Wednesday. I hope I pass.











_You using the whole fist_, _Doc_?


In all seriousness - get enough coverage to cover your lost income for at least 2 years + enough to pay off your mortgage + enough to cover your kids education.


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## Matt J (May 27, 2005)

hnw2 said:


> Bump.
> And, as basic as it sounds, health insurance. If you can't afford that, you can't afford to boat.


Like almost everything about in this topic, this is a gross oversimplification.

Are any of you insurance agents? Do you suggest Term, Limited, General Pay? How much of a deductible can I afford on my health insurance?

I understand where the OP is coming from and whether or not you kayak or participate in other high risk sports, if you have dependents, it is certainly wise to have life insurance, if you can afford it.

It would be nice to see a higher level of contribution than simply "do this."

Generally, insurance is a means of protecting personal assets. It is a very personal decision that each of us make, to decide whether or not we need coverage and what level that might be and conversely how much exposure we find reasonable.

To state that anyone that can't afford health insurance "can't afford to paddle" is crass although pretty on par for the buzz. Maybe I can't afford NOT to paddle for reasons that are not financial.


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## deepsouthpaddler (Apr 14, 2004)

Any recommendations for good insurance agents in the denver area to do this?


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## kazak4x4 (May 25, 2009)

Another note on this topic, you also might want to make a will for yourself. Even though you might not have much property to yourself, it's a good idea to do a will for medical reasons. Do you want to be berried or cremated? Do you want to be on life support or not? Do you want to donate your body parts? A lot of these decisions are tough to make for your family in the time of crises. It's good to be prepared and do it while your brain is in good condition.

A will can be written by hand, it just needs to be notarized by someone, like a bank notary. 

Just some small steps we can do to help our families after we join the Whitewater Heaven.


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## kazak4x4 (May 25, 2009)

deepsouthpaddler said:


> Any recommendations for good insurance agents in the denver area to do this?


No idea on Denver area, but when I got my insurance I went through MetLife. With them I was covered as soon as they received my first payment and all whitewater sports were covered, no matter how extreme.

I wasn't able to climb or canyoneer (anything on a rope) for the first two years after signing up. Basically if I kick a bucket on a rope within first 2 years of signing up, my policy is voided. 

I've checked with a couple of other insurance companies and most of them had a problem with whitewater sports, that was the reason I went with MetLife.

Alex


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## earthNRG (Oct 24, 2003)

Matt J said:


> Maybe I can't afford NOT to paddle for reasons that are not financial.


Amen. My state of mind and thus quality of life is very dependent on the activities I participate in, regardless of my financial and health insurance status. That said, for $25/month, if I were to perish living the life I love, my wife will be debt free and be able to build our dream house (of course it wouldn't fit the dream without me), and if I were to get hurt, your tax dollars will not be paying for my healthcare. You're welcome.


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## Matt J (May 27, 2005)

deepsouthpaddler said:


> Any recommendations for good insurance agents in the denver area to do this?


not to only be a negative nancy...

I am not an agent and admit to having only a precursory knowledge of insurance products. Some of my friends who are much more knowledgeable than I suggest term life insurance. I would suggest starting with some reading about the different kinds of products. Term is considered "pure" insurance, or what must of us think of as life insurance. Many of the other products are investment scams according to my more financially-minded friends.

There are some guidelines for how much insurance you should buy, perhaps try one of the online calculators and get a couple of quotes to ballpark it before sitting down with an agent.

I think the last time I looked at it, they recommended about $1 million worth for two young kids to get them through college, but there are a lot of factors like if you spouse works, how much money you make, what kind of quality of life your family expects (your income), etc.

Maybe a boating agent will sound off and give you more solid info or a recommendation...


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## earthNRG (Oct 24, 2003)

kazak4x4 said:


> No idea on Denver area, but when I got my insurance I went through MetLife. With them I was covered as soon as they received my first payment and all whitewater sports were covered, no matter how extreme.
> 
> I wasn't able to climb or canyoneer (anything on a rope) for the first two years after signing up. Basically if I kick a bucket on a rope within first 2 years of signing up, my policy is voided.
> 
> ...


Hmm... I haven't check if mine covers whitewater or other sports specifically, but I do know they cover suicide after the first year.


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## Matt J (May 27, 2005)

earthNRG said:


> your tax dollars will not be paying for my healthcare. You're welcome.


I think the people with health insurance basically pay for the healthcare of everyone, not the government. The government only mandates that hospitals must give enough care to stabilize a patient regardless of insurance, they don't as far as I know pick up the tab. Except for seniors who have medicare/medicade benefits, and at free public health clinics. You would think that would provide the incentive necessary to rework the system, but evidently not.


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## kazak4x4 (May 25, 2009)

The main choice you make when picking life insurance is the payoff and term vs whole life.

Term insurance is a lot cheaper up front, but obviously has an expiration date. Either it's your age or employment termination. Whole life doesn't have an expiration but up front cost is huge! Also with whole life, any money you put in to your account is available for withdrawal later. So it's basically kind of like a bank account.

With Term, you lose all your monthly payments.


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## El Flaco (Nov 5, 2003)

deepsouthpaddler said:


> Any recommendations for good insurance agents in the denver area to do this?


A close friend of mine recommended Dan Cable at Northwestern Mutual, who is a long time family friend. Super nice guy; he'll walk you through what he recommends based on your situation, and I didn't ever feel that he was trying to over-sell me. Northwestern is also a highly rated company, which counts for something. Nothing in the policy mentioned whitewater sport specifically, and it wasn't on the questionnaire. (I bought a Term life policy, BTW).

I know this thread started as "if you boat, you should" but really, if you have kids and no significant family wealth, it's critically important. In fact, there's a better argument to be made that "if you can't afford life insurance, you can't afford to have kids".

My brother-in-law put off getting decent life insurance coverage for 2 years after my niece was born (not sure why - never asked) and was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer at age 39. Even though he had $50K in savings and decent medical insurance, my sister was functionally broke by the time he died 2 years later. They lost his income, & being sick costs money regardless of medical insurance. He was self-employed so no coverage from work, and had a meager $20K life insurance policy that barely paid for the hospice bill. She's been clawing her way back with help from family, hard work, and a little bit of Social Security death benefits for my niece; but that pain could have been greatly lessened if he had been putting just a fraction of those savings deposits into a decent life insurance policy. It's a double whammy to deal with grief and trying to figure out how to keep your house.

No one would do that to their own family on purpose, but shit like that happens all the time. Figure out what you can afford, but get something in place (and a will). Many bigger companies provide 1X to 2X your annual salary as a standard benefit add on, so you usually can add onto that to get some degree of coverage that gives your family some piece of mind.


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## idahofloater (Feb 23, 2011)

Umm< Make sure your policy will pay out in the case of drownding due to whitewater boating. Or whatever else your doing. Insurance companies spend a lot of money to not pay you out.. My dad just died and we are finding thier ways are designed NOT to pay out. Its a very complex process that may require an attorney in the end.


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## Ken Vanatta (May 29, 2004)

*you are going to die*

 A basic strategy to calculate how much coverage to buy for a one income family is:
- Final expenses ($15,000 may be common)
- pay off totals of Mortgage and other debts 
- Education expenses for kids or spouse 
- Income replacement (with the above paid, your suriviors won't need to replace 100% of your income. Figure maybe half, though, and for the number of years until you were planning to retire. 

Add all four catagories to estimate how much life insurance you may need. If your spouse earns a substantial salary, you might be able to decrease the requirement. However, if family members have or might develope an expensive medical history you may want to add a substantial amount.

Also consider how many years you'll need insurance. If you need coverage beyond 20 or 30 years, or after age 65 (which is when life insurance gets real expensive), you might want to consider permanent insurance rather than term. Regardless, purchasing coverage when you are younger rather than old is basically when rates are more affordable. 

Additionally, if you own a business, Key-Man or Buy-Out coverage should be consider.

CRS Insurance Brokerage is a Denver recommendation. For health insurance ask for Bernadette. For life ask for one of their Life agents. Or I can help with life insurance out of our Salida branch.

Ken


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## Canada (Oct 24, 2006)

When I did it, I found tools on line to estimate what I needed. I then went to an on line search engine that got me quotes from like ten carriers. I also went to an agent. The agent brought me something more competitive, so I went with him.

My point was not meant to judge or to be condescending. If you can't afford it, don't. I do think that if you have kids, and you boat, you should find a way to fit it in. Many of you will remember this same topic from years past. I bring it up once a year at run off.


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## jen84 (Sep 5, 2005)

kazak4x4 said:


> A will can be written by hand, it just needs to be notarized by someone, like a bank notary.
> 
> .


No just write it by hand and sign that shit...... At least that is what this book in front of me says to do..... Finally, my finals studying and buzz time have collided.


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## Matt J (May 27, 2005)

Canada said:


> When I did it, I found tools on line to estimate what I needed. I then went to an on line search engine that got me quotes from like ten carriers. I also went to an agent. The agent brought me something more competitive, so I went with him.
> 
> My point was not meant to judge or to be condescending. If you can't afford it, don't. I do think that if you have kids, and you boat, you should find a way to fit it in. Many of you will remember this same topic from years past. I bring it up once a year at run off.


I agree with you. I was just making the point that it's about DEPENDENTS and/or easing the cost of your funeral if that would be a hardship on your loved ones. I do in fact remember your posts from years past as well and think it's a worthy psa. I was more referring to the bit about health insurance which is a different and more complicated issue.

If you have dependents you should have life insurance whether you boat or not. Let's not forget that for most paddlers the drive to the put-in is the most dangerous part of the day.


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## earthNRG (Oct 24, 2003)

Matt J said:


> Let's not forget that for most paddlers the drive to the put-in is the most dangerous part of the day.


I'd bet the drive home is more dangerous with all the beer drinking and fatigue, but the essence of your point is true.


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## bolsito (Aug 26, 2007)

kazak4x4 said:


> Do you want to be berried or cremated?


I definitely want to be berried, sounds awesome.


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## earthNRG (Oct 24, 2003)

bolsito said:


> I definitely want to be berried, sounds awesome.


I was thinking it sounds sweet, but tried to resist posting my lame pun-y-ness. Oh well... I really need to find some work to do.


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## kazak4x4 (May 25, 2009)

bolsito said:


> I definitely want to be berried, sounds awesome.


I thought the spell checker looked funny. Sorry  how the hell do you spell it?


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## Jensjustduckie (Jun 29, 2007)

kazak4x4 said:


> I thought the spell checker looked funny. Sorry  how the hell do you spell it?



You would be speaking of buried - as in underground.


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## lcscmllr (Sep 23, 2010)

bolsito said:


> I definitely want to be berried, sounds awesome.


Not only that but delicious too


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## slavetotheflyrod (Sep 2, 2009)

If you're a military vet or dependant you can't beat USAA for pretty much any type of insurance. I honestly can't tell you what I pay for term life through USAA cuz I get it direct deducted from my checking acct 3x a year and the amount is so small I don't even notice - we're talking comparable to the price of a case of micro's. 

If you don't qualify for USAA then Travelers can't be beat - I use them for everything that USAA doesn't cover. They're a bit more than the others but as the old saying goes "spend less, get less" I've learned that lesson the hard way (fuck you, State Farm).


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## hnw2 (Jan 14, 2009)

earthNRG said:


> Amen. My state of mind and thus quality of life is very dependent on the activities I participate in, regardless of my financial and health insurance status. That said, for $25/month, if I were to perish living the life I love, my wife will be debt free and be able to build our dream house (of course it wouldn't fit the dream without me), and if I were to get hurt, your tax dollars will not be paying for my healthcare. You're welcome.



Gold star for bein' a thinker.


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## Stonewalker (Oct 7, 2006)

I am a kayaker and a partner in an agency based here in Colorado. This post brings up a lot of good points about having the right coverage in life & health policies if you spend time on the water or not. To say one product is right for everyone is not true everyone's needs are different. I would be happy to talk with anyone with questions either on the phone or in the eddy my number is 970-216-3635 and my email is [email protected] if you have questions. Please remember, I have never delivered a death benefit or helped get a medical claim paid to a widow or family who asked, "What type of policy did my husband buy?"

See you on the water this year!
Bill Ballou


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## kayakArkansas (May 14, 2004)

Stonewalker said:


> Please remember, I have never delivered a death benefit or helped get a medical claim paid to a widow or family who asked, "What type of policy did my husband buy?"
> 
> See you on the water this year!
> Bill Ballou


I'm not sure what that means exactly.


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## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

Maybe it means if you don't know what's coming to you, you are more likely to be flagged as an easy target that won't be able to force them to pay?


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## cwhoppe (May 10, 2011)

As an agent in the Denver area, I can give free quotes to anyone interested. Prices for any plan will be the same from any broker/agent. It will depend on what your individual needs are. If you purchase a 10 year term policy, with a face value of $1,000,000, at 30 years old, and in perfect health, your premium is fairly inexpensive. The problem with that term coverage, is that people expect to pay the same premium 10, 20, or 30 years later for the same $1,000,000 worth of coverage. That unfortunately, is not the case. Universal policies may be a better choice if you think that later in life, you will still want, or need the coverage. 

Chuck Hoppe


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## the_dude (May 31, 2006)

life insurance is cheap. do your family a favor and buy a policy. your spouse should do the same. completed ours about three months ago. i was ranked in the "elite" health category, and the price wasn't bad at all.


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## Ture (Apr 12, 2004)

jen84 said:


> No just write it by hand and sign that shit...... At least that is what this book in front of me says to do..... Finally, my finals studying and buzz time have collided.


LOL. Love it. I'm going to do exactly that. I'll bet a lot of people don't have a will because they think it is a pain in the ass procedure. I know that's the reason I don't have one. 

Who has time to see an attorney and/or notary to get a will done? I don't even have time to eat a proper breakfast. 

A hand written note is certainly better than nothing.


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## mbannister (May 19, 2006)

Is there a reason to get life insurance if you don't have kids/spouse?


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## cwhoppe (May 10, 2011)

If you don't have any dependants, and you do not wish to leave anything to anyone, remember that someone must pay for your funeral. Final expense plans are cheap when you're young. They are small whole life plans (usually $10,000 to $25,000) to pay for the things that we don't like to think about or talk about. These types of plans are often payed up front in full, or payed annually.


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## brian a (Sep 1, 2007)

Hello All,

I'm a boater of five years and I've been a financial advisor for the last 15 yrs. In 2009 I established an independent practice up here in Eagle. This may have been covered already but I would say for most of us, term insurance would be a great baseline product to consider. It is quite inexpensive relative to the benefit it provides and frankly it provides the insurance for a period of time that most of us likely would need it (10 - 30 years). Of course we all have unique situations that may require different solutions but term is a great starter.

Thanks,

Brian
970-432-7040


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## SBlue (Jun 5, 2007)

mbannister said:


> Is there a reason to get life insurance if you don't have kids/spouse?


In this case a disability policy might be a wise call. That would allow you to take care of yourself financially, should that unfortunate situation arise.


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