# Halkey Roberts Long Stem Valve Caps



## arkriverrat (Apr 11, 2005)

Hi All,
My wife just bought an old Sotar with the old style Halkey Roberts long stem valves, and no valve caps. I have reverse engineered the caps, and am having some made for her boat. The more pieces I order, the better the rate. Would anyone buy these if I had them available? If I order 100, I could sell them for $25/piece, or 5 for $100. I know this is steep, but this pricing would barely cover my cost. I am not making the whole valve, literally just the cap and gasket in the cap. Would anyone be interested, or should I just make a few for my wife's boat?
Thanks,
Tim


----------



## snowjunkie (Jun 29, 2009)

I may be interested in one


----------



## arkriverrat (Apr 11, 2005)

Hi Snowjunkie,
I will let you know how the prototype I get looks, and see if you are still interested.
Tim


----------



## T.O.Mac (Jun 6, 2015)

i'd be interested as well


----------



## jporter59 (Apr 21, 2009)

*Maybe 2*

I would be interested in 2 if they work, keep us posted. Mine is 1 1/8 inch from rubber gasket to the end although it may not matter if it's just the cap but how do they stay on?


----------



## arkriverrat (Apr 11, 2005)

*Almost there!*

I got my prototype back, and most of the geometry worked well, though I did make a few changes and hope to have an improved proto next week. Once the design is locked down, I will likely have these available for sale. Check out the pics, and let me know if you would be interested. 
The prototype I made is in white, gray is original shown for comparison. I would likely make the caps in gray with black seals.
Thanks,
Tim


----------



## snowjunkie (Jun 29, 2009)

I am going to want 2 of these


----------



## arkriverrat (Apr 11, 2005)

I will update when I get the revised prototype and have a lead time.


----------



## natepelton (Feb 24, 2011)

Seems like a good candidate for 3D printing.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Mountain Buzz mobile app


----------



## Iceburn (Apr 29, 2017)

I would be interested in at lest 5 of those caps.


Sent from my iPhone using Mountain Buzz


----------



## Electric-Mayhem (Jan 19, 2004)

natepelton said:


> Seems like a good candidate for 3D printing.


Seems like an even better candidate for a silicone mold and some cast resin compound. Much cheaper, stronger, faster and easier to make a bunch of. You could do them out of a harder silicone too.

If you are serious about making a bunch of these, I could probably hook you up with a friend that does manufacturing in Vietnam and has a lot of experience with plastic and silicone injection molded parts. If you can show them a prototype they can crank em out pretty quick. Tooling would be the spendiest part, but once that is done I bet the parts would be less then 10 cents each.

Probably only worth it if lots and lots of people wanted them though.


----------



## TLaf (Sep 22, 2016)

Since they don't make them any more seems like there would be a group of boaters that have been doing without or have been thinking about switching out the hole valve to a C7 as maybe a repair came up. Finding that group may be a challenge?

I am down in Brazil and the rafting company I work for has two old Sotar's that I think have this valve type. I always get the shorter one and the longer cap confused. They have been out of service for two years due to major thwart and floor repairs needed. From memory they are from around the mid to late 90's? Maybe Sotar would even buy them if the mold came out good to service those customers they for sure can access and contact? 

I am tinkering with maybe buying either the 12.5 or 12ft they have here. 80% of the raft is in great shape still. Then bringing back the floor or thwart to have it factory repaired. I was thinking to replace the entire valve part but if there was a good cap would not be needed. 

If the company down here was going to repair they would want the valve cap option but when they would buy I have no idea. The Sotar's have been set aside the last couple years so they don't seem to motivated to get them going again. 

What other rafts had that valve type? My friend bought that Sotar model and sent it to Sotar to update all the valves and get it generally serviced. I am sure he would of loved to just buy caps. 


Sent from my iPhone using Mountain Buzz


----------



## arkriverrat (Apr 11, 2005)

*Prototyping done, about to do a production run*

Hi all, 
The second iteration works well. I am about to do a run of these caps. These will be made out of PVC, not the original acetyl. This material is strong, but slightly more brittle. These will be susceptible to breakage just like the originals, there is a reason that they changed the whole valve design. PVC appears to be the only way I can make these even remotely cost-effective right now. On less my supplier finds that they can come down on price after running a couple of test parts, it looks like I will need to sell these at $25 ea, or 5/$100. I know it is steep for valve caps, but this literally will cover costs. I will post a drawing with dimensions so that you know exactly what to expect. My wife wants hers to be lime green, so they will likely all be lime green or white (white has best UV resistance). Once I have the color locked down and pricing back, I will let you all know. I imagine I can do custom colors in 10 lots or larger orders only.
Happy floating!
Tim


----------



## arkriverrat (Apr 11, 2005)

Hi TLaf,
I do not know what manufacturers used these valves other than SOTAR, thought I am sure several did during that time frame. I don't know the time frame either, just know that our new boat needed caps or new valves, and I don't want to pay someone to cut up my boat to put in new valves, I would rather make new caps. If you or your company decides to get these boats going again, then get in touch. Until then, have fun on the river!
Tim


----------



## natepelton (Feb 24, 2011)

*Valve replacement*

I have changed several valves by just replacing the top of the valve and reusing the half inside the tube. The bottom part is identical on the old and new style.


----------



## arkriverrat (Apr 11, 2005)

jporter59 said:


> I would be interested in 2 if they work, keep us posted. Mine is 1 1/8 inch from rubber gasket to the end although it may not matter if it's just the cap but how do they stay on?


Hi jporter, they look very similar to the stock caps, and I included pictures in one of my posts. They use the same features as the original caps to engage and hold the cap.
Tim


----------



## arkriverrat (Apr 11, 2005)

natepelton said:


> I have changed several valves by just replacing the top of the valve and reusing the half inside the tube. The bottom part is identical on the old and new style.


Hi Nate,
I was under the impression that the inside half was different, requiring major tube work to replace valves. That is not the case? I thought there was a depth issue which led to underengagement of the threaded portion if you tried to use the inner of the old and the outer of the new. That said, I have never had them in my hand side by side. Please correct me if I am wrong.
Thanks!
Tim


----------



## arkriverrat (Apr 11, 2005)

Electric-Mayhem said:


> Seems like an even better candidate for a silicone mold and some cast resin compound. Much cheaper, stronger, faster and easier to make a bunch of. You could do them out of a harder silicone too.
> 
> If you are serious about making a bunch of these, I could probably hook you up with a friend that does manufacturing in Vietnam and has a lot of experience with plastic and silicone injection molded parts. If you can show them a prototype they can crank em out pretty quick. Tooling would be the spendiest part, but once that is done I bet the parts would be less then 10 cents each.
> 
> Probably only worth it if lots and lots of people wanted them though.


Hi Electric,
I am sure a silicone molded part would be far superior, but would require a much larger initial investment. I want to take care of my wife's boat (7 pieces total) and since I have a part that works, thought I would offer it up to others whom like their old boats and want to keep them in shape without a major investment. Printing is an easy way to get unique parts in small quantities. I have heard that Halkey will put the mold back into production if someone will order 1,000, but I sure don't want 993 extra parts! 
Tim


----------



## natepelton (Feb 24, 2011)

All I know is I've done it in a pinch and back at home and never had any problems. All the parts that wear out are on the top half. I'd rather have a new valve and cap than just the cap.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Mountain Buzz mobile app


----------



## arkriverrat (Apr 11, 2005)

Finally got an order placed after finding a more reasonably priced supplier. I should have 25 of these caps ready for sale early next week. They will be PLA not ABS, and they will be lime green. If you want any, I can sell them for $10/piece, or 6 for $50. Actual shipping charges will be extra, or they could be obtained in Golden. I could do custom or other colors, but there would be a surcharge on less I need to reorder anyway. I have not done any real durability testing yet, so I can not guarantee quality until I actually get these fit on my wife's boat and take a few trips, so there is a little bit of a gamble on your part. PM me if you want to place an order. Hope you are all well!
Tim


----------



## Electric-Mayhem (Jan 19, 2004)

arkriverrat said:


> Hi Electric,
> I am sure a silicone molded part would be far superior, but would require a much larger initial investment. I want to take care of my wife's boat (7 pieces total) and since I have a part that works, thought I would offer it up to others whom like their old boats and want to keep them in shape without a major investment. Printing is an easy way to get unique parts in small quantities. I have heard that Halkey will put the mold back into production if someone will order 1,000, but I sure don't want 993 extra parts!
> Tim


Not really more expensive. I think the place where making a mold would take over printing would be around the 15-20 unit mark. I think the stuff to make the silicone mold would be in the $25-50 range and enough Urethane resin to make 15-20 parts is $85. If you wanted to make more then one part at a time the mold cost would go up, as well as if you wanted it a specific color other then white.

I would be very gentle with the printed parts. PLA isn't super strong, so just keep that in mind.


----------



## arkriverrat (Apr 11, 2005)

Electric-Mayhem said:


> Not really more expensive. I think the place where making a mold would take over printing would be around the 15-20 unit mark. I think the stuff to make the silicone mold would be in the $25-50 range and enough Urethane resin to make 15-20 parts is $85. If you wanted to make more then one part at a time the mold cost would go up, as well as if you wanted it a specific color other then white.
> 
> I would be very gentle with the printed parts. PLA isn't super strong, so just keep that in mind.


Hi Electric Mayhem,
I understand that the cost for a silicone mold is low, but so far have been pleased with the caps I have printed. When installed, I think they are as strung and effective as any design would be. Sure, you should be gentle when they are removed from the valves, as you should be with any valve cap of this style. Bottom line is these caps are ready now, and FAR superior to running a boat with no caps whatsovever. Given that I do not have mold design experience, I am happy to move forward with these. If I start seeing failures, then I may go down that road. 
Have fun out there!
Tim


----------



## arkriverrat (Apr 11, 2005)

*Halkey Roberts Long Stem Valve caps are ready!*

Hi all,
I now have some of these caps ready for sale if you need them. As I have stated, they are printed PLA, not the original molded acetal. That said, I have used them on the river, and they are far superior to naked valves, and I believe will serve you well for years if you treat them gently when out of the valves. If you are interested, I am selling them for $10 a piece or 6 for $50. buyer pays shipping or pick up in Golden. Current color is lime green, other colors available for a surcharge, or when I need to make more. If you plan to pick up locally, give a heads up so that i can be sure to have them available. PM me if you want any or have any questions. Otherwise, it is time to let the thread die.
Thanks, and have a wonderful time on the river!
Tim


----------



## snowjunkie (Jun 29, 2009)

You lost me at lime green. I ended up milling one out of steel and painting it. If you could do a HDPE version there is a real need for that. I couldn't find a big enough block in town and thought wood will break off causing more problems.


----------



## arkriverrat (Apr 11, 2005)

snowjunkie said:


> You lost me at lime green. I ended up milling one out of steel and painting it. If you could do a HDPE version there is a real need for that. I couldn't find a big enough block in town and thought wood will break off causing more problems.


Hey Snowjunkie,
I am glad you were able to take care of your needs. My next batch will likely be a different color, maybe even boring old gray, but since my main objective was caps for my wife's new boat, she got her pick of colors.:razz: I can't get them machined for anywhere near the what I am offering them for, or I might go that route. I would be leery of using a steel cap, I would rather have my cap fail before the valve it is installed in! Also for clarification, I am offering these to help out those of us running old boats. I am not trying to start a business here, if I were I would likely go with a silicone molded epoxy or similar part. Fact of the matter is there is not the demand to support it, and I have other projects (and rivers) requiring my time! Regardless, I hope it works very well for you, have a great summer floating!
Tim


----------



## powderrush (May 24, 2017)

I would be stoked to buy the 6 for $50!


----------



## arkriverrat (Apr 11, 2005)

powderrush said:


> I would be stoked to buy the 6 for $50!


I need to reorder, so do you have a color preference? PM me and we can get you set up.
Tim


----------



## jonranper (Feb 20, 2018)

*halkey roberts long stem caps*

I've been scouring the internet for old stock halkey roberts long stem valve caps. If you still have any available for sale, I am very interested.


----------



## Fastaction (Jun 10, 2015)

*I'll Take 5*

I'll take 5 in any color.


----------



## Kevinpent (May 23, 2018)

If you have anymore, I would take 4


----------



## joefromsf (Jul 16, 2010)

I'd also buy 4.


----------



## desertrat (Aug 20, 2007)

I would love to buy six for $50 and pay the shipping to Flagstaff. Any colour is fine - red might be fun!


----------



## aaronbox (Jun 13, 2018)

I would also buy 6 and pay shipping to oregon


----------



## castuller (May 15, 2016)

If you have more of these, I'd take a few. I'm headed to ID Tuesday and one cap came up missing. I'm in Buena Vista but I'll be around Golden this weekend if that helps. Text 719-486-6670


----------



## Kevinpent (May 23, 2018)

I'll buy 6. Text me details. 5096710789


----------



## TLaf (Sep 22, 2016)

So funny story... I replied last year about the older Sotar’s I was using in Brazil. I ended up bringing one back to the states and I am looking at bringing it back to life. The tubes checked out good but I am missing 5 caps. 4 for the tubes and one for the thwart. Where are you with things currently? Sending some pics I took today. But I am sure they are long stem. 

I also talked with Beau at Sotar and as I was going over what can be done on my raft it came up about the valves. Sounded like he was interested to keep some at their shop. He said it has been over a year since Sotar had any on hand.


----------



## natepelton (Feb 24, 2011)

I posted it before, the inside piece is exactly the same on old valves and new ones. All the oarts that break/wear out are on the outside piece. Just screw out the old outside piece and screw in a new outside piece. Unless you want to cut and patch every valve you are upgrading. Inside pieces never see any UV either.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Mountain Buzz mobile app


----------



## TLaf (Sep 22, 2016)

Nate, I did read your post then someone else I thought posted it isn’t true. Thanks for reposting your thoughts. I know NRS has the new Short HR valves for sale so I will try one and post back.


----------



## dsrtrat (May 29, 2011)

The last post got me thinking as I have a boat with the old style long valves.


I pulled out my stock of old Hakley Roberts valves and did some cross checking. I had some of each type and this is what I discovered. There are different internal pieces although the thread pitch is the same. The old long is longer and has a different thread depth. The new short has a shorter body by 1/2 inch and a different internal configuration. 


The old short will not screw into the old long body as it will just catch a couple of threads. Same for the new short internal body. I don't have an old short body to check if a new short will fit but the threads are the same. The new valve is longer by about 1/4 inch and has about 1/8 inch more threads so don't know if it would work. This valve is not made anymore so probably not a factor for most people.


The new short will thread into the old long body although the O ring on the outside of the new short just makes it into the smooth part of the internal long body piece. The old body valve seats this O ring about 1/4 inch further in. The O ring is designed to keep air from leaking past the threads of the internal piece. It may or may not seal depending on the thickness of the raft material. If you have a good seal on the outside of the raft fabric it should work. 


The rubber valve seal from the new short valve will interchange with the old long in case the cause of a leak is not a weak spring but a bad seal.


Just my direct observations, take it for what it is worth. Now if I could just figure out how to take one of these apart to replace the spring.


----------



## RodneyR (11 mo ago)

arkriverrat said:


> I need to reorder, so do you have a color preference? PM me and we can get you set up.
> Tim





arkriverrat said:


> I need to reorder, so do you have a color preference? PM me and we can get you set up.
> Tim


I am in need of one or more long stem valve caps. Do you still have these, or do you plan (or can you) make more. I would prefer grey with black o-rings, but will take what I can get. 

Thanks in advance for any help you can provide.
Rodney


----------

