# Main Salmon at 73,000cfs



## copyfrank (Jun 4, 2011)

Does anybody have any information on the Main Salmon at Super High Water. We have a June 30 put in. I understand that it is at 73,000 cfs and rising. I spoke with one outfitter that said they have done guide trips at up to 80,000, but that they cut off commercial trips at 55,000. I am wondering whether to take my 13 year old daughter.

Any thoughts?


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## BarryDingle (Mar 13, 2008)

My brain hurts everytime I see these....I bet this has never been discussed. Ever.

Does it ever occur to someone to do a search? There's TWO threads on this from YESTERDAY,on page 2.


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## copyfrank (Jun 4, 2011)

Sorry I'm such an idiot. I'm just an analog guy living in a digital world


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## BCJ (Mar 3, 2008)

You might also want to check your information, or which gauge station you're looking at for flows. At Corn Creek, the launch, it should be roughly 35K today, maybe rising from there. That would be the Main Salmon trip that most people are familiar with. The river takes on more water below from sidestreams, and the South Fork, but the 73K number you're talking about could be down in the Lower Salmon, below Riggins, between Riggins and the confluence with the Snake. As for me, such high flows are not a good indicator of a "fun time" and instead a big flush.


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## Swissriver (Jun 24, 2011)

I have a launch for 30 June and am thinking hard about it. I talked to an outfitter in Salmon today who said that he would also think hard about it... He said the problems are lack of campsites (underwater), COLD water (45), and lack of people if something goes wrong. There's simply no one launching with the water this high. Both he and the ranger said they believe it will crest this weekend. If the weather cools at all then it will dip but could go back up when warmer. Strange year. Better to head to the Green or Yampa who are both on their way down but holding their own at great, fun levels...


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## copyfrank (Jun 4, 2011)

Buck: this is Frank Lilly. I started this thread. The gauge that I am looking at is the Whitebird gauge. Which is, think, a little ways above Riggins. The info. that I have based most of my thinking on is from talking to a couple of outfitters this morning. Call me now if you want. 970-471-0897


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## Swissriver (Jun 24, 2011)

this is jenny - swissriver - I'm totally interested in what you have to say about launching next week. please keep me posted. thanks!


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## rwhyman (May 23, 2005)

When you say something is above, most river folks would think upstream. White Bird is north of Riggins, if that is what you mean by above. Which puts it downriver from Riggins. Thus the large difference in flows between Corn Creek and WhiteBird. For the estimate flows at Corn Cr., add the flows on the Main @ Shoup plus the flows of the MFS near Shoup. As Buckcoff says above, that's about 35K today.


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## Outlaw (Mar 8, 2010)

I'm not sure why we have to be such assholes on this site (me included quite often). I have never run the Main Salmon. However, when the Middle Fork was raging, we thought about until the flows reached 90+K at Whitebird last year. Everything is measured from Whitebird because these are the flow that you'll contend with on the bigger rapids downstream of Corn Creek. Tributaries such as the South Fork Salmon and come in and increase flow. The Little Salmon is not part of the river at this point, but everyone gages the river by whitebird to simplify. As I understand, a rapid known as whiplash becomes a one-way ticket into the side of a cliff (class V above 75K). It's also not scoutable because once you arrive, you have to run it. I should re-phrase that it is scoutable with a rather large hike around a bend. A group of J-rig boats on a commercial trip called for an airlift last year to evacuate their custees after taking a look at the rapid. This should give you a few ideas, but I've never run it myself so it's all second hand info. Hope this helps.


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## BCJ (Mar 3, 2008)

I was just trying to help. Like Rwhyman, the gauges I look at are the Main Salmon and Middle Fork at Shoup, which are right near the confluence. Corn Creek (the launch) is about 15 miles down from that. And I do that on this site: USGS Real-Time Water Data for Idaho Anyway, think I'll stop trying to help because some of these threads do tend to venture off into never never land . . . . I agree with Outlaw about Whiplash. Much above 9-10 ft (low to mid 40's at Corn Creek) and commercial outfitters begin to cancel out. It's a nasty one. And the water is real big up there, even at the 27K level we saw. Could be Whitebird is an OK gauge to use, but I got in the habit of using Shoup. South Fork is the only major tributary between Corn Creek and Riggins, but there are dozens of large creeks. Whitebird is downstream from Riggins, after the Little Salmon also dumps in near Riggins. So I figure the more accurate gauge for flow above the South Fork, which is quite a ways down from Corn Creek, are the Shoup flows, which right now are 35K not 78K, which sounds bigger and badder, but could be an exaggeration. But I've only run it 7 times, so maybe I don't know the geography. Be careful out there! (Frank - - I will give you a call man! But in case we don't connect, will also send a PM)


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## funkins (Jun 24, 2005)

BarryDingle said:


> My brain hurts everytime I see these....I bet this has never been discussed. Ever.
> 
> Does it ever occur to someone to do a search? There's TWO threads on this from YESTERDAY,on page 2.


This thread has become informative but remember we are hurting barry's brain every time this gets bumped to the top.


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## Outlaw (Mar 8, 2010)

Sorry if I offended anyone with my last post. I'm just a little annoyed when people dismiss questions about runs that are normally class III. I believe the last Main Salmon post was about running it at 30-40 K. I've always heard the Main referenced to Whitebird, so 75 to 80 K seems like it deserves a different response. Or for that matter, so what if someone asks about Westwater at 15K, or how they should tie their damn cooler down. If you're not interested, don't read it... we're all boaters here.... especially since someone has to carry my damn beer down the river.


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## FatmanZ (Sep 15, 2004)

Here's another resource you can use: http://www.fs.fed.us/r4/sc/recreation/4rivers/color-hydrographs 2006-2010.pdf

Page 2 is the flows for the last 5 years for the Corn Creek gauge. The flow at Corn Creek today (6/24) is currently over 40,000. From my uneducated perspective, it looks like the flows on the Middle and Main Salmon are about 2 weeks behind the "normal" schedule. Both rivers will eventually peak and likely drop fast (due to extended high water period) - but when they will drop, and how fast they will drop remain to be seen. 

Here's a good TR of the Main at high water:

http://www.mountainbuzz.com/forums/f11/main-salmon-beta-30-40k-37755.html


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## mcgow13 (Jun 8, 2010)

I'm in the same boat - we are launching on the 29th. Sounds like it could be over 40K at Corn Creek by next week.


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## ENDOMADNESS (Jun 21, 2005)

Buckoff is spot on....i have never heard of anyone (other than outlaw) use the Whitebird gauge for the Main Salmon (corn creek run). The whitebird gauge is normally almost twice as much water as you'll see in this section of river.

CopyFrank- if you are a competent Class 3-4 oarsmen and you daughter is a normal (strong) swimmer you will be fine. Whiplash, Chittam and Elkhorn are the only 3 major rapids of significance. The rapids are SO spreadout a swim/flip is not gonna ruin your trip (like it could in the Middle Fork)

I would not consider 40,000 cfs (as Buckoff measures) to be huge water...just a little burly

SOME MORE INFO HERE (on 30K - 40K runs and beaches)

http://www.mountainbuzz.com/forums/f11/main-salmon-musts-25602.html


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## BCJ (Mar 3, 2008)

Right on EOM - - "burly" is a good word for it, but I've never seen 40, only 27. Was lots of fun in a dory, but I definitely didn't play "high diddle down the middle" and skirted some holes in Elkhorn and pulled right at Chittam. But there is plenty of room to move and pull out of bigger wave trains, etc. if you want to. My uncle J, who was with me, called it an "angry river." But he's from Joisey so what does he know!!! (grin). For my money, at my age, and after 32 years of boating privately and commercially, moderate flows tend to be more fun anyway. Vaya con dios.


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## mgpaddler (May 3, 2009)

Copyfrank, The Main Salmon at high water wouldn't be a good idea for an inexperienced person of any age. When the Whitebird gauge approaches 50k then you're getting into some flows that even Jet boats quit running. Most rapids will flush out but some get much bigger. Notable rapids are Whiplash, worst at levels between 55k and 80k, above 90k it seems to smooth out a bit IMO. Elkhorn becomes a huge hole but can be cheated easily. Chittam becomes very big but can be missed by going far right over a very intimidating glassy wave. Camps are mostly covered but the bench camps are all in play. You won't need many anyway, at levels in the current range you can easily do this as an overnighter. Hope this helps a little. My experience is limited to about 50 trips ranging from very low to 96k at the Whitebird gauge. Have fun.


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## jirwindisc (Jul 16, 2010)

I've just got to say "Thanks" to all you helpful fellow boaters out here. Outlaw, EOM, Buckcoff,etc and even my brain-hurting friend BarryDingle. I'd say this is the most informative thread out here for sure. 

I'll be going with McGow13 on the June 29th trip, and there are some weak knees starting in our group as we've got 23 people, and 7 of those are under 17, including my 12 yr old daughter.

However, I'm feeling much better with most of your information, and will be very cautious, and hike out/Scout whiplash. I am seeing the forecast is that we will crest today/tomorrow, and be back down to 61,000 (whitebird) by our launch (according to the NWS).. we'll see how accurate they are. 

We ran the main salmon at 30K 2 years ago from Corn Creek, and it was a fun ride, but nothing terribly frightening. Big/Fast water and my 13 yr old son at the time did Ducky the whole thing... and swam often.

Thanks for all your assistance, and your information is valuable.
Jay


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## JBL (Jun 7, 2006)

I ran it in '06. It was 92,000 cfs at Whitebird when we launched. The Main at that level was HUGE. The gauge on the ramp (brass numbers embedded in the ramp) at Corn Crk. was at 11 ft. The sign at the put-in that explains river levels says that 8ft = 32,189 cfs and is rated "extreme". The sign doesn't even list water levels above 8ft. At 11ft we estimated the water to be running 52,000 cfs at the put-in. The water was scary because it was so big, fast and cold. But even scarier were the trees - not logs - trees that were floating down the river. We had 3 18' oar rigs and 3 17' dories. We also had two safety boaters in creek boats. We made huge miles very, very quickly. We'd average 25 miles in 2 hours. I had a GPS with me and according to it we hit 22 mph in one rapid on the second day. The boils, eddies and seams were nuts. Much more so than any of the rapids. I'd never seen literal eddy 'fences', which were tough to deal with. One of the hardest things to do each day was to break the eddyline to get into camp. The biggest rapids were Killum, Big Mallard, Elk Horn and Whiplash (huge). There were other big ones but these stand out in my mind. A lot of the rapids were washed out, like Salmon Falls. The waves were huge and the holes were the biggest I'd ever seen. We hit some waves that the 18' rigs barely made it over. You'd almost crest, think you were not going to make it, then the front of the raft would creep over the top of the wave and you fly down the backside. It was awesome. One of the guys on the trip is a Grand Canyon guide (has been for 30 yrs) and he was even surprised by some of the rapids and their size and power. The camping was interesting since there were no beaches. We camped in forest every night. In fact, I don't even remember seeing any sand the whole trip. It was definitely an expert run at that level. Not so much because of the rapids but because if you had a problem, a flipped raft, swimmers, etc. The speed and temp of the water would have made rescue very, very difficult. Fortunately, we didn't have any incidents. All in all, it was an amazing experience. Some of the biggest water Idaho had seen in the previous 10 years and it was great to be on it.


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## MountainMedic (Apr 24, 2010)

Whiplash tries to eat my friend. He managed to (somehow!) get right back in and row out of that mess. It was THE rapid that week, hands down.


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## Swissriver (Jun 24, 2011)

I decided to give the main a miss on the 30th. Got a cancellation for the middlefork on the 3rd. I'm a lot more familiar with it. I've run it up to 6.8. I'm hoping it will be below that by then. Love some advice. I'll have a couple new-ish boatmen. Have done ladore at 24,000. I think they'll be fine.


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## copyfrank (Jun 4, 2011)

Thank you everyone for all the helpful information. Thank you Barry for teaching me to use the search feature. FYI, I bailed on my friend's MF launch for Monday. I am still considering the Main portion, however (without 13 yr. old daughter), as the river is dropping and even the possibility of a swim is not as scary on the Main as the MF. Stay tuned if interested.......


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## copyfrank (Jun 4, 2011)

*Friend getting eaten*

Mountain Medic: what water level was that picture taken at? Either Whitebird or put-in information will tell me what I need to know.

Copyfrank


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## MountainMedic (Apr 24, 2010)

copyfrank said:


> Mountain Medic: what water level was that picture taken at? Either Whitebird or put-in information will tell me what I need to know.
> 
> Copyfrank


That was at the put in. it was 8.8 the day before when we showed up & rigged. we felt like it came up a bit after we put in.

seriously, scout whiplash. that pic doesn't even come close to doing it justice.


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## BCJ (Mar 3, 2008)

Wish I could remember what Whiplash actually looked like. I recall being there and nearly rolling the dory, falling out, being pulled back in, and tearing up my left knee after stupidly trying to "push" my way left through the entry trying to get out of the wave train. Beyond that, all I can recall are a bunch of ferocious curling, criss-crossing, stopper-waves crunching together against one another in a gigantic hydraulic whirpool! Yikes! (GRIN) If you want to get left at Whiplash, start early and PULL stern first - - don't try to push your way out of trouble! (The golden rule!)


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## jevc (May 10, 2009)

Swissriver said:


> I decided to give the main a miss on the 30th. Got a cancellation for the middlefork on the 3rd. I'm a lot more familiar with it. I've run it up to 6.8. I'm hoping it will be below that by then. Love some advice. I'll have a couple new-ish boatmen. Have done ladore at 24,000. I think they'll be fine.


Ladore at 24,000?
how old are you?


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## Swissriver (Jun 24, 2011)

Sorry. It was 20 when we put on. Then 24 when we got to jones. I'm 41. And I am apparently losing my memory because it was the yampa. Apologies. It was middle may of this year.


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## jevc (May 10, 2009)

Well, there are probably some old timers that saw ladore at that level. That would be a screamer.
At any rate, the yampa at 20,000 is no comparison to the middle fork at 7 foot. Not even close.


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## MikeG (Mar 6, 2004)

Swissriver said:


> I decided to give the main a miss on the 30th. Got a cancellation for the middlefork on the 3rd. I'm a lot more familiar with it. I've run it up to 6.8. I'm hoping it will be below that by then. Love some advice. I'll have a couple new-ish boatmen. Have done ladore at 24,000. I think they'll be fine.


Just got off the MF and it rose from 6 to 7 while we were on it. The hardest stuff is definitely on the top 25 so squeemish folks could fly in to Indian Creek. The tricky part is that the normal rapids were largely washed out while there were huge waves and holes in "flatwater" sections. I almost flipped in a monstrous hole in lower cliffside that I did not know was there. I've run it at high water before but in a kayak so it was all read and run. Definitely more on my toes in a raft. The commercials all lined their boats around velvet but we all thought it was a fairly easy pull behind the rock and down a wide tongue on the Left. Pistol was surgey but right down the middle. Lake Creek was an exciting addition with a huge hole on the bottom right (easily missed on the Left if you set up early). The guidebook I had was worthless (the big topo map one) as it was clear they had no idea what the high water lines were. Even the better book had some bad beta but everything has a clean line through it- trust your reading, not the guidebook. The impassable canyon was largely washed out, as was Kramer Creek on the Main.


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## jirwindisc (Jul 16, 2010)

Our whole group bailed for the 29th on the Main Salmon. Concerns on high water. Certainly thanks for the posts, but if anyone else out there is running at this time, I'd love to tag along with you and have mucho gear. 

I'll also check Trip Planner to see what else is out there.


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## farp (Nov 4, 2003)

We ran Whiplash two days ago at about 80,000 cfs. 
It was huge. 
It's a must scout. 
By the way, if you continue beyond Vinegar Creek, Ruby is colossal and Lake Creek is nearly as big. 
I would definitely recommend scouting Ruby as well.


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## cataraftgirl (Jun 5, 2009)

My friends opted out of their June 18th Main Salmon trip and did the Owyhee instead. They had a good time and were happy with their decision.
KJ


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## Matthew73 (Jun 26, 2011)

Farp (#31),

I have a July 3 launch date on the Main. Would you mind telling me what the level was at Corn Creek, and any other details you care to share on Whiplash? Thanks


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## Matthew73 (Jun 26, 2011)

Sorry, typing too fast. Meant to say "what the level was at Corn Creek the day you launched . . ."


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## farp (Nov 4, 2003)

Matthew73 said:


> Farp (#31),
> 
> I have a July 3 launch date on the Main. Would you mind telling me what the level was at Corn Creek, and any other details you care to share on Whiplash? Thanks


I can't remember the cfs, but it was 10 on the gauge at the ramp. 
All the boats on our trip ran right, toward the rock wall where huge boils belched and funny water spun the raft around. It was the lesser of evils.


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## Swissriver (Jun 24, 2011)

MikeG, Thanks for the info! I think it'll be down in the low 5's by the end of the week, you? Sounds like your trip was an adventure. How was the last day, past Parrot? Also, the Chutes?


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## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

I wouldn't count on much dropping, we're getting a heat spell, then maybe a touch of rain, and the rivers are going to go back up by Friday.


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## cholmberg (Jun 27, 2011)

Thanks everyone. This info is very helpful. We have a July 4 launch date, and I am quite concerned about the big water. I'm interested to hear anything else that folks have to say about runs above 30k... I'm hoping that by this weekend it will be down below 7 feet and will start to mellow out (fingers crossed). thanks!


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## dgosn (Sep 8, 2006)

I've been down at 9.0ft on the corn creek gauge. The water was fast and big, not really very technical. You can avoid the wave trains if you choose. The exception is Chittum, and one of the Mallards. Those rapids have flipper holes but nice green water through them. Elkhorn has one of the best wave trains I have ever seen, and a crashing wave in the middle, -could eat you.

We ran whiplash near the left bank, not really a problem. Had we not scouted it and taken the usual inside corner(R) tactic it could have been ugly. 

My only complain at those level were the camps. Most all the nice big camps that were left were wood magnets. Lots of big wood cooking down the river. A boater proficient on normal west water flows, or cataract below 20k should have no problem. With kayakers swims should be short.

Seems like the jet boats don't run often during big water due to the wood? We saw 2 jet boats and only a handful of people. Do it!


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## funkins (Jun 24, 2005)

I'm gonna bump this to the top so my buddy can find it.


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## palidog (Apr 28, 2005)

Launching on July 6th. I can't wait.


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## boneboater (Apr 3, 2004)

Thanks Funkins for bumping the thread. Based on the current Shoup gauge readings and my 3rd grade math skills Corn Creek is about 32,500 cfs (16,900 cfs MF at Shoup and 15,600 cfs Main at Shoup).

That is still pretty damn high. I think it should drop a bit for our 11 July put-in.

I'm not scared.


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## jirwindisc (Jul 16, 2010)

boneboater said:


> Thanks Funkins for bumping the thread. Based on the current Shoup gauge readings and my 3rd grade math skills Corn Creek is about 32,500 cfs (16,900 cfs MF at Shoup and 15,600 cfs Main at Shoup).
> 
> That is still pretty damn high. I think it should drop a bit for our 11 July put-in.
> 
> I'm not scared.


Don't be scared. There is a ton of people trying to scare others out of this trip, and it is truly just big class III water. We had our TL cancel our trip, and now looking at the flows, we should have gone. My 13 yr old son Duckied this at 30,000 before. Mind you, he swam often, but it was all just fun pushy stuff, and just pay attention at Whiplash. Hang it right.


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## bzen (Jul 11, 2009)

My buddies ran whiplash at 79k around 24th of June. Holy Moly. All lines involve staying left. Risk the hole (actually, a big wave that looks like a hole) and the following death eddy (72 year old Donald made this line rowing for two boaters who flew out sick--he didn't eddy up, he "Donald up" and ran it, later saying he didn't want to spend vital energy eddying or portaging, which were considering until he failed to stop with the rest of us, at which time, after watching him and Tyler, his nephew, who took off right after him, navigate the rapid) or bounce off of and not over the big waves than end at the wall of death. Our most experienced boater flipped and swam out hanging onto his boat to avoid being sucked down. All made the trip without serious injury and it was a great trip. You can eddy out on the left just before going through whiplash and scout, but the best view is from the right. We all avoided the wall, which is important. Guess a crew 3 days before us didn't and, according to Jim, a local, "Got ground up pretty good but all lived." The complete story is great, but I gotta run now.


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## Matthew73 (Jun 26, 2011)

I just posted a new thread - report on our trip down the Main Salmon, July 3-7. For those of you still following this thread I am pasting it here as well: 

-------- 

We ran the Main Salmon from Corn Creek to Carey Creek last week. Launched on July 3, very late in the day, at about 7.3' on the ramp. Looking at the USGS site I would estimate water levels are now (Sunday, July 10, one week later) about 5.8' but I am going to go ahead and post this in hopes that it will be useful to someone in the future. 

As the trip leader I really struggled regarding whether to go ahead and make this trip or whether to cancel due to high water levels. We finally opted to make the trip. For reference purposes (for those of you considering a trip at similar levels) I would call myself a strong, reasonably competent oarsman, with valid and reasonable but not particularly extensive experience. I had previously run the Yampa and Green, Green/Gates of Ladore, and Westwater, among others, but it had been several years since I had been on the water. We had a total of 6 people on 2 boats, including a 15.5' self-bailer and a 17' cataraft.

In general, as has been reported in many other places on this forum, the Main is not particularly technical at these water levels. The water is big, fast, and cold. There are plenty of boat-flipping holes in the river at these levels, but the river is so wide that it is very easy to avoid most of them. We had the river almost entirely to ourselves. We were the only launch on July 3. On July 4 a large commercial and a large private group launched. Both groups passed us on the morning of July 4, we passed both groups later on July 4, and never saw another boat on the river except for 3 kayaks which passed us on July 6. 

Other than a very late launch on July 3, our first and second days on the river were relatively uneventful. We spent the night of July 4 at Bargamin Creek, which is a very nice high water camp. At our water levels there was just enough room for us to pitch a tent on the beach there so we didn't have to hike up to the tent sites in the trees. Bargamin had the added benefit of allowing us to scout Bailey Rapid in the am (about a 1/2 mile walk downriver from Bargamin). Bailey had a nasty hole on the left side which was easily avoided; we ran center and just enjoyed the large wave train.

The next rapid worth scouting was Elkhorn. Unless all six members of our group are blind (which is possible) the Elk Antlers marking the approach to the rapid are now gone. However, it was easy to see from our maps that we were approaching the rapid. We attempted to pull over to scout from the right bank but missed the eddy due to strong current and ran Elkhorn blind. I was in the lead boat and since we had not scouted I opted to run right and had no trouble at all. (The hole created by Elephant Rock was pretty obvious from about 100 yards or so upstream. We avoided it to the right, although it looked like there was plenty of space on the left as well. At these water levels Elephant Rock does not show; the river just flows over the rock with a massive hole behind). 

The oarsman in the other boat thought he was running "part one" of Elkhorn and ran it straight down the middle, right through the hole at Elephant Rock which we were frantically gesturing for him to avoid. That hole flipped the 17' cat end-over-end as if it were a matchstick. I cannot overemphasize how powerful that water and that hole were. Fortunately 2 of the 3 occupants came up close to the capsized cat and scrambled up onto a pontoon; I tracked down the other passenger in my raft and we got him onboard our raft within a couple of minutes. We then tracked down the cat and managed to row it to an eddy, river left, before we hit whiplash. 

After getting the cat flipped back over we proceeded on to whiplash. After missing the scout at Elkhorn we pulled over river right, well above whiplash, as suggested by our guidebooks. We ended up pulling over about 1/4 mile further upriver than we needed to; at these water levels there is no trail and it took a fair amount of work to hike down to the rapid itself. There is a nice campsite just above the rapid, river right, but it does not give you much room to navigate the rapid itself so we skipped that. At our flows (probably right around 7' on Corn Creek that day, perhaps a bit higher) Whiplash was the most intimidating water we saw. A combination flipper/lateral hole with a nasty eddy right side, with the current running right into the cliff face. After scouting from the right side we actually rowed across the river and scouted from the left as well. We ended up scouting for a total of almost 3 hours, including our extra-long hike, and ultimately ran left, without incident. Had we not scouted and taken the inside (right) route it would have been ugly. 

Not much happened of significance between there and Chittam. Again, some large holes, but easily seen and avoided. However, after we passed Shepp Ranch the river had some very strange hydraulics; for just about the entire remainder of the trip we experienced a very narrow main current, with large eddies on either side, and large whirlpools popping up spontanously. This was manageable but a bit unnerving. 

We spent the evening of July 6 at Lower Bull campsite, which was very pleasant at our water levels; we had a nice beach, shade, a creek, and a visit by a herd (?) of about 7 bighorn sheep in the morning.

We easily hit the eddy to scout Chittam, and the walk was easy at our water levels. There was a cheat to the far right, but it was right next to a monster hole that we wanted no part of, so we opted to run the tongue and row away from the pillow waves crashing from the wall, river left. As I was rowing to get away from those waves I had an oar mishap and lost my right oar for about 3 crucial seconds, during which our raft rolled right up against those waves and went vertical. The raft didn't flip, surprisingly, but it ejected me and my two passengers. One passenger was able to climb up on to the raft, I was able to make it to the right bank, and our cat was able to track down the other passenger. All of us were dunked repeatedly by the river through Chittam but thank heavens none of us were pinned against that wall on the left and we are all still alive and well. 

Vinegar, the final rapid, was just a big wave train and nothing to worry about at these levels. 

At the ramp at Carey Creek, as we were de-rigging, we heard that a jet boat had mis-timed the rapid at Chittam and had sunk the previous week. I have not been able to confirm this but it's easy to believe; that water was powerful. I'd be interested in hearing more about this incident if anyone has any info.

All in all we had a fantastic trip . . . in 4.5 river days, we had a total of about 10 minutes of terror (people floating Elkhorn and Chittam), a couple of hours of apprehension (scouting Whiplash), and the rest was just fantastic. If you are considering a trip around the 7' level I would echo what has been said elsewhere: you can avoid most of the obstacles if you simply pay attention, but Whiplash and Chittam are tough.


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## BCJ (Mar 3, 2008)

Terrific post Matt. Brings back memories and sounds just like what I recall. Thanks, BCJ


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## Matthew73 (Jun 26, 2011)

Thanks Buck. Again, I really appreciated your sharing your notes with me. They were a big help. Take care


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## mcgow13 (Jun 8, 2010)

jirwindisc said:


> Don't be scared. There is a ton of people trying to scare others out of this trip, and it is truly just big class III water. We had our TL cancel our trip, and now looking at the flows, we should have gone. My 13 yr old son Duckied this at 30,000 before. Mind you, he swam often, but it was all just fun pushy stuff, and just pay attention at Whiplash. Hang it right.


I am the TL who canceled this trip. This individual is mistaken. He ran the Main in late June 2009 when the Whitebird gauge was at 28K and Corn Creek was less than half of this. I canceled this trip when Whitebird was 67K. Just setting the record straight


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## tomyj (Apr 17, 2011)

all the rapids except whiplash wash out at high water...you get into some huge fun tasty wave-trains that are a blast! be safe and stay in the boat and keep your oars in your hands and you'll do just fine!


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## funrivers (May 14, 2008)

Here are some videos of Black Creek Rapid. Jet Boat was hauling our gear back and we had to hike around-Jim said he wouldn't run it again until something changes for the better. It was 7-21 and CC gage was 3.5. Rafter was also on 7-21--note the hole opening up on that right run! The left and right runs were our party on 7-15--CC was 4.6. Enjoy!

Jet boat: ‪Black Creek Rapid - Main Salmon‬‏ - YouTube

rafter: ‪Black Creek Rapid - Main Salmon‬‏ - YouTube

river left: ‪Black Creek Rapid - Main Salmon‬‏ - YouTube

river right: ‪Black Creek Rapid - Main Salmon‬‏ - YouTube

another river right: ‪Black Creek Rapid - Main Salmon‬‏ - YouTube


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