# Early season rafting



## cataraftgirl (Jun 5, 2009)

San Juan in late April - May. Probably not March. Also Deso in late April to mid May. Weather can vary but mosquitos aren't as bad.


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## Noah W (Jun 5, 2012)

The Ozarks of Missouri and Arkansas Can be really good that time of year if the rains fall.


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## eddy hopper (Sep 17, 2007)

Rio Grande in Big Bend Texas when there's water.


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## erdvm1 (Oct 17, 2003)

When you say the San Juan which section of the San Juan?


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## Phil U. (Feb 7, 2009)

I'll second the San Juan. Did it in early Oct. with a 2 year old and a 4- year old. The average temps are a couple degrees higher then than April. We were lucky and had average weather, nice. Spring tends to be windy in there. Had an epic early spring trip a couple years back when the 4 year old was new. Had to lay over because of the wind. You might consider just doing the 27 miles from Bluff to Mexican Hat in case the weather goes bad and you want to bail. The San Juan is a great kid friendly rio.


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## Dave Frank (Oct 14, 2003)

3rd for S.J. Bluff the M.H. Cam still be cold that early, certainly will be at night.

ten hour drive. A little more from Lyons. Look for at least 800 to a grand. We did 600 one March, and while totally doable, was slow and scrapey.


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## erdvm1 (Oct 17, 2003)

Has anyone run the verde in Arizona? 
The salt?
White river floats?
Moab daily?


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## dsmoake (Apr 2, 2010)

AZ is looking bleek right now. The Verde is flowing around 200 at Camp Verde which is doable (and can be fun)in a Soar canoe or ducky. The Salt is only 150. All of the snowtel sites feeding these 2 rivers have under 2 feet of snow which will not generate much run off. Jan-March can generate some good storms but it has not happened in the past 2 years. Hope for Snow!


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## erdvm1 (Oct 17, 2003)

How about your general impression of those runs in a decent to good snow year? Given the criteria listed in the first post. Thanks for any input (ie accurate useful input


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## Phil U. (Feb 7, 2009)

Just my opinion, and I've only boated it once, but I wouldn't put the Verde in the same class as the San Juan for beauty or side hikes/camping. Also, IMO, 600 works fine for the San Juan. (loaded 16' raft) Haven't over nighted the Moab daily but that could work though it would probably not be as warm as the San Juan.


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## mania (Oct 21, 2003)

I would never take a 4 and 6 year old on the salt.


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## lmyers (Jun 10, 2008)

dsmoake said:


> AZ is looking bleek right now. The Verde is flowing around 200 at Camp Verde which is doable (and can be fun)in a Soar canoe or ducky. The Salt is only 150. All of the snowtel sites feeding these 2 rivers have under 2 feet of snow which will not generate much run off. Jan-March can generate some good storms but it has not happened in the past 2 years. Hope for Snow!


Wow, really? I thought AZ was doing alright for snow.... when I looked last week the snotel sites near Hannagan Meadows and on the Mogollon Rim were showing like 6-8" of moisture in that 2 feet of snow.... that is significantly better than what we got going on in the Ark Valley at the moment with generally 3" of moisture at all the snotel sites (other than Monarch).


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## Dave Frank (Oct 14, 2003)

Agree with Mania. No little ones on the Salt.


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## erdvm1 (Oct 17, 2003)

Anyone else run the verde? Is it even worth the drive?


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## lmyers (Jun 10, 2008)

erdvm1 said:


> Anyone else run the verde? Is it even worth the drive?


Here is an excellent TR from Gene (Deadlizard) from a February run at a very similar flow:

Verde River - Pre-Trip Horseshoe Reservior to Agree on Take-out Location

Looks like fun to me, but I don't think I would try and take a raft down at these flows....


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## bigben (Oct 3, 2010)

anyone wanna chime in opinions on early season salt for me?!?
we applied for a march 11th launch date.
any you buzzards ever been in there that early?
or any opinions on minimum flows? 
i've heard you can still squeeze a 14er down it in the 600-800 neighborhood. hopefully we'll see at least that.
thanks!!


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## bigben (Oct 3, 2010)

and x2 on the verde at these flows. it goes, but just barely.
the 1 time i ran it was about 220 at the camp verde gauge. we duckied beasley to fossil creek. 
it's a beautiful place. but it's super boney. ton's of rock dodging with like 4 sweet class 3+(ish) rapids mixed in. way too low to even think about running verde falls too.
i'd think it'd take at least 600 before i'd try getting rubber down there. maybe even more for verde falls.

you thought about utah?? moab daily's probly running around then


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## atg200 (Apr 24, 2007)

Moab is having a deep freeze kind of winter. I wouldn't count on the daily or ruby/horsethief(which is my usual go to overnight with little kids) to not be frozen over at least in early march. keep an eye on the weather there.


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## erdvm1 (Oct 17, 2003)

verde looks like a no go for me


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## dirtbagkayaker (Oct 29, 2008)

May I thow in the Lower Owyhee in OR? If you haven't ran it, I'd say its worth the drive. Awesome canyons, caves, homestead, hotsprings, class 2/3.


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## dsmoake (Apr 2, 2010)

lmyers said:


> Wow, really? I thought AZ was doing alright for snow.... when I looked last week the snotel sites near Hannagan Meadows and on the Mogollon Rim were showing like 6-8" of moisture in that 2 feet of snow.... that is significantly better than what we got going on in the Ark Valley at the moment with generally 3" of moisture at all the snotel sites (other than Monarch).


This year is similar to 2 years ago. I had a Salt permit for March 30 and the flow was 330. The Verde was just under 600 so we ran Childs to Horseshoe and we were just over 400 at the take out. Last year was better for the Salt, there was around 3 feet of snow at Hannagan Meadows and the Salt maxed out around 1100 but it did not last long, maybe a week.


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## lmyers (Jun 10, 2008)

dsmoake said:


> This year is similar to 2 years ago. I had a Salt permit for March 30 and the flow was 330. The Verde was just under 600 so we ran Childs to Horseshoe and we were just over 400 at the take out. Last year was better for the Salt, there was around 3 feet of snow at Hannagan Meadows and the Salt maxed out around 1100 but it did not last long, maybe a week.


Hopefully there is more on the way. Doesn't seem like a bad start with more storms in the pipeline...


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## cadster (May 1, 2005)

I solo canoed the Verde the beginning of March 2011 when it peaked above 2000 CFS.

This video gives a good feel for the whitewater day run below Beasley Flats with the exception that the lead-in rapid to Verde Falls is tricky.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQEe9HSkdmk

I continued down to Horseshoe Reservoir for a 5 night trip. Here's a shot from below Childs in the Mazatzal Wilderness:










The main hazard on the run is strainers due to lines of willows crossing the river like this:










That isn't the worst spot and I was able to run it without portage because of previous "beavers" at work.

There's also a blowout channel below Childs that takes most of the flow over a steep rocky slide and leaves the main channel to low for most rafts at even high water.

A few more shots here.


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