# Recommendations buying my first raft



## Gipaldo (7 mo ago)

Hey all, new to the forum and novice rafter. Was informed of this forum site from a friend who said it's a great resource for all things rafting. I just recently took a two day instructional class with plenty of river time running the raft on class II-III on the Arkansas just south of Salida, CO. I'm now officially hooked and want to make the plunge buying my own set up, but pretty overwhelming with all the brands and options.

Live in Summit County, CO so I have great access to rivers all around. Main use would be day trips with buddies and shorter overnight trips. Would want frame and oars, sticking mainly to class II-III and chill float trips. Buddy I'm splitting it with has two kids and would like to do some low key family trips.

Was looking at the Aire 143R (which we used on our recent instructional trip as well as the 13' version) and found a shop in Washington St that has some in stock. Talking with some buddies yesterday and swore by Hyside and that's the only option. Can't find any in stock and crazy expensive. I know NRS is also solid and used by a lot of outfitters. A lot of people seem to not like the bladder system in the Aire rafts, which adds stability but also weight and have to drain it after. The Aire 10yr warranty is appealing though. 

Looking at the Big Horn I or II as frame options

Seems like buying skis where people get fixated on a certain brand, but plenty of solid options out there 

Thanks all, any advice or suggestions is much appreciated! Excited to take the next steps in rafting!


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## gwheyduke (Jul 3, 2008)

I think all three manufactures you listed make good boats. Here are some other things to consider and are just my opinions. Others may disagree. Personally, I'd look for a used boat and frame setup rather than purchase a new one. Once you have all the other gear and setup, and you are sure you'll love it, then sell the used stuff and buy a new one.

*Size*
Fishing only 13 or smaller
Multi-day trips excluding the grand canyon - 3 adults comfortably - 14 ft - 4 adults comfortably - 15ft.
Grand Canyon - 2 adults comfortably - 14-15ft 3 adults 16 ft to 18ft.
Day runs in Colorado and most places - I can fit in most flows - 14 ft and below. 15-16 you lose maybe 15% of runs.

*Materials*

Glued PVC - Vanguard, Star, Saturn - Lasts for 10+ years, maybe 20 if you keep it out the heat and sun. "Lowest" build quality
Welded PVC - Newer Vanguard and RMR - A good boat, more durable than glued PVC. Seems to last a long time. Heavy.
PVC and Bladder - Aire rafts - 10 yr warranty, pretty bomber. The tributary aire rafts have a 5 year warranty and have a thinner PVC, but my brother in law has one for the last 10+ years and its been great. I wouldn't hesitate to buy one (see storage constraints).
-Hypalon - NRS, Avon, Hyside - gold standard used all over the world. Just as good as Aire.
- Urethane - Maravia and Sotar - You love it or hate it. A great boat and very durable
-Wing Rafts - The best money can buy. I think they are Urethane...

*Storage Considerations*

I want to roll my boat and travel small. - Hypalon - NRS and Avon.
I want to roll sometimes, and don't mind a bit more bulk. - Aire, a Hyside coated in Urethane (that's what I have).
I want to trailer or roll very infrequently - the rest (i.e. PVC and Urethane).

*Durability - It all depends on how it was taken care of.*

Was it left out in the sun. Has the fabric faded?
Was it a PVC or Urethane boat that was rolled every year for storage and now has creases.
Was it a commercial boat that was ridden hard and put away wet?
Are any of the ibeam's blown in the floor? If so, that could mean the glue is starting to go. That's a big repair.
Are any of the baffles blown (that could mean the glue is going, not good).

Good luck!


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## craven_morhead (Feb 20, 2007)

Your sense is good - there are a lot of good rafts out there. They have pros and cons (hypalon vs. PVC, bladders vs. not) but they'll all get you down the river. In my mind, a 14' boat in Summit is in the category of "good at everything, great at nothing." A smaller boat will be more nimble for smaller water (the Blue, the Arkansas). A bigger boat will be more comfortable for overnights with a family (Ruby/Westwater, Desolation, etc.). So you could go either direction if you want to maximize one of those use cases, or split the difference with a 14 footer. A bighorn frame is fine; you can do better with a DRE frame with diamond plate etc. but you increase weight and cost.

Rolling vs. trailered may impact hypalon vs. PVC. 

If you can find a turnkey package you can save a fair bit of money, but the used market is pretty tight right now. Even so, building out a new package can feel like death by a thousand cuts. For one small example, cam straps are more expensive than you'd think and you need more of them than you expect. And oars and spares and dry boxes and on and on.


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## Gipaldo (7 mo ago)

Thanks all, great info!

We already have a trailer so was planning to use that the majority of the time, then whatever is the proper storage method for winter. I could get a tarp or something so it's not exposed to sun when on the trailer and not in use. 

My plan was to buy the raft new (if can find any in stock) and then try and find used frame, oars and accessories. Not sure I feel comfortable buying used and then ending up having durability issues, but open to anything really. I've got some buddies that said I could use some of their extra gear while I slowly acquire my complete rig.


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## craven_morhead (Feb 20, 2007)

I bought a used (nearly 20 year old) Hyside. I had a friend who has run hypalon boats join me to inspect it, since I wasn't super sure what I was looking at. So far so good. It may be tougher to piece together a used frame and all the other bits that fit together vs. finding a turnkey package and maybe reselling the rubber.


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## Gipaldo (7 mo ago)

Not sure if this link will work, but this might be a good option I found on Facebook marketplace. 15ft NRS with Big Horn II frame






Войдите на Facebook


Войдите на Facebook, чтобы общаться с друзьями, родственниками и знакомыми.




www.facebook.com


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## upacreek (Mar 17, 2021)

There's good advice here already, but will offer an affirming opinion of your plan in terms of new boat vs used....as the price discrepancy between them has likely never been smaller. Sure, for a good turnkey package ($5k _MAX _for a boat, frame, oars, etc), it might be worth it since you get everything needed to get on the water rather than having to buy/borrow gear...but otherwise for a first boat, I'd say you couldn't go wrong with a new RMR.


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## mcfarrel (Apr 1, 2006)

Gipaldo said:


> Hey all, new to the forum and novice rafter. Was informed of this forum site from a friend who said it's a great resource for all things rafting. I just recently took a two day instructional class with plenty of river time running the raft on class II-III on the Arkansas just south of Salida, CO. I'm now officially hooked and want to make the plunge buying my own set up, but pretty overwhelming with all the brands and options.
> 
> Live in Summit County, CO so I have great access to rivers all around. Main use would be day trips with buddies and shorter overnight trips. Would want frame and oars, sticking mainly to class II-III and chill float trips. Buddy I'm splitting it with has two kids and would like to do some low key family trips.
> 
> ...


Jordan River Boatworks has Hyside Rafts in stock. @BGillespie


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## craven_morhead (Feb 20, 2007)

To upacreek's point, the linked NRS package (rubber and frame) is 6.5k; a RMR frame and rubber package is $5k new. 14' boat vs. 15' boat, and PVC v. Hypalon, but yeah, the used market is tight.


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## griz (Sep 19, 2005)

Getting a new Hyside through Hyside usually involves a preorder so some waiting and planning ahead of time. Just call’em but if you want one for this summer might be SOL. and yeah, they are getting spendy. I think mine is $1500 more than it was just a couple years ago. Worth it if you have the time though. Generally, I think the big pre order time is in the fall and winter with the next spring/early summer for delivery times. I think they get a second batch but eh just call’em.

used frames and oars that fit your rig exactly might be tough to come by in a short timeframe. Just a heads up and personally wouldn’t bother going that route.


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## Gipaldo (7 mo ago)

The limited stuff for resale I'm seeing locally on CL and FB seems to all be very used and old, or priced damn near the same as buying new


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## BenSlaughter (Jun 16, 2017)

Arguing raft brands(as well as skiis) is akin to a Ford, Chevy, Dodge debate.

Most of it comes down to personal preference. So I'll throw in my(not so humble) opinion. (You know what they say about opinions....)
Sotar, Wing, Maravia are the premium brands.
Aire, NRS, Hyside, etc are second class(but still good). Then there's everything else RMR...(budget, ya get what you pay for)
If you've got the loot, can store it inflated on a trailer (COVERED!!) get one of the top three I mentioned. If you're gonna roll it, get a rubber(hypalon) boat.
Buying new, and a boat\frame package is ideal. If you can make it happen.
I'm a firm believer that a 16' is more comfortable, especially for overnight trips. There aren't many places a 14' will fit, that a 16' won't also.
If ya need nimble, get a 12'.

My .03¢ (inflation, ya know)


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## Gipaldo (7 mo ago)

Like what I am seeing with the RMR rafts and seem to be in stock and certainly easier on the wallet. Is there a big difference with the drop-stitch floor or not? $400 difference 

Looking at the
SBDS-140 14' Drop-Stitch Raft or 
SB-140 14' Self-Bailing Raft


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## FR1DAYx (8 mo ago)

I'm pretty sure the local raft shops down in Durango have some NRS Otters in stock. at 4CRS if you buy the boat from them they give a discount on all the accessories. Its worth the look and they are great people to deal with!


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## upacreek (Mar 17, 2021)

Gipaldo said:


> Like what I am seeing with the RMR rafts and seem to be in stock and certainly easier on the wallet. Is there a big difference with the drop-stitch floor or not? $400 difference
> 
> Looking at the
> SBDS-140 14' Drop-Stitch Raft or
> SB-140 14' Self-Bailing Raft


Drop-stitch is def worth it..


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## Gipaldo (7 mo ago)

RMR also has frame packages. For $5,339 you get the 14ft drop stitch raft, two bay frame, oars, Sawyer components, a poly deck, drop bags, cam straps...tough to beat









14′ RMR Frame Package/SBDS-140


Introducing RMR's series of lightweight, plug n' play frame packages. The Rocky Mountain Raft 4-bay 14' Frame Package comes with EVERYTHING you need to hit the river in style. Choose your color of the SBDS-140 (drop-stitch floor) - and leave the rest to us. RMR Frames are made in Fayette County...




rockymountainrafts.com


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## psu96 (May 9, 2006)

There is a reason RMR are in stock, heavy come unglued(when they were glued), don’t track well. I owned a14ft.


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## griz (Sep 19, 2005)

psu96 said:


> There is a reason RMR are in stock, heavy come unglued, don’t track well. I owned. 14ft


owner seemed like a dbag when he came on the buzz a few years back,too. I lost all interest in RMR after that thread. for pvc, I’d go Aire. Buy once,cry once.


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## jeffro (Oct 13, 2003)

Get the drop stitch if you want to stand up and fish from the floor. If not get the standard self bailer; it will track better. You could probably run the drop stitch soft but save your $400 if you don't need it.

I think pretty much every manufacturer has had QA issues at some point. From my understanding RMR did an excellent job taking care of their customers during that period and that's about all you can ask for. I believe they are welded now too. Not sure if that is good or bad but they won't "come unglued" since they aren't glued. Not to say welds can't fail. I don't have an RMR so I could be off base though.


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## Gipaldo (7 mo ago)

Per the website
Welded I-beams, baffles and seams, triple-fused with welded seam tape inside and out which eliminates the need for glue... and its problems. The best seam technology in the industry--durable, consistent, reliable 

3000-denier PVC which I believe is higher than Aire

Does seem like a decent option if I can't fine used or drop the $10k for a higher end package


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## Nanko (Oct 20, 2020)

psu96 said:


> There is a reason RMR are in stock, heavy come unglued, don’t track well. I owned. 14ft


RMR are fully welded these days if I’m not mistaken. Yea very heavy but I’ve found mine to be bomber despite lots of abuse. I’d go new RMR for sure over used unless you find a unicorn deal. You’ll get 15 solid years out of it. Aire/ Sotar etc. are incredible boats and there is something to be said for supporting US manufacturing. That said, I think the vast majority of boaters reach the point of diminishing returns with the higher end brands from a purely practical standpoint.


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## psu96 (May 9, 2006)

Yes, they are welded I changed my wording. I simply meant when I had mine. There customer service sucked when it did fall apart. The boat was a few years old and they wanted me to throw it in the landfill and give me 25% off a new boat. WTF.


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## upacreek (Mar 17, 2021)

These days RMR's are indeed fully welded, have a legit 6-year warranty, and to me represent an all around excellent value especially for a first boat. But the 'buzz will always be rife with anecdotal experiences and fuzzy memories, although as _I've heard it _the whole_ "_PVC_=_heavy" hype was dreamed up by raft manufacturers still sniffing glue at the time and looking to hate on pioneers like Jacks Plastic Welding. 

Honestly though, let's not kid ourselves here that something that costs 2x as much delivers 2x the performance. These aren't classic cars, you're still just buying a boat (to abuse), which as the old saying goes is merely "a hole in the water in which you pour money"...how much is wholly and entirely up to you.


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## Gipaldo (7 mo ago)

really appreciate the input and info from everyone


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## foreigner (10 mo ago)

If you have a trailer, I wouldn't worry about PVC vs Hypalon or bladder systems. Aire is a solid brand, with tons of fans. NRS and Hyside are great too. I also wouldn't hesitate to purchase a used raft. Full packages are great for new boaters because there is a lot that goes into outfitting a raft, and it will take you some time to get up to speed.

If you buy new, you will likely make some mistakes and they will cost you money. Purchasing the wrong oar length, wrong oar mounts, cooler doesn't fit properly in a bay, you name it. When you buy a package, somebody has already done all the hard work for you. In a couple years, you might decide you want to outfit your own raft, and you will have the cash and knowledge to do it. You'll have seen things on the river that you like and dislike, and you'll be better armed to make sound decisions. My 2cents.


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## Pinchecharlie (Jul 27, 2017)

Definitely rnr..but ...for a phat cat!! Cats meow lol! As a dude who had bought boats for cheap to try and figure it out. I'd say buy a 14ftr for a good price and go put on miles. You'll buy again anyway so just get a good deal regardless. Yheres a raft company here selling their fleet of 13 foot Aires for cheap. Great small river boat. Just sayn cause now I have 700 boats and there all the wrong ones lol! Perfect quiver???
Phat cat
12 ft mini max
14ft sotar/maravia/aire
16ft " "
12 foot w.d./legend
15ft. " "
Creature craft for me cause I can't swim to good...


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## griz (Sep 19, 2005)

upacreek said:


> These days RMR's are indeed fully welded, have a legit 6-year warranty, and to me represent an all around excellent value especially for a first boat. But the 'buzz will always be rife with anecdotal experiences and fuzzy memories, although as _I've heard it _the whole_ "_PVC_=_heavy" hype was dreamed up by raft manufacturers still sniffing glue at the time and looking to hate on pioneers like Jacks Plastic Welding.
> 
> Honestly though, let's not kid ourselves here that something that costs 2x as much delivers 2x the performance. These aren't classic cars, you're still just buying a boat (to abuse), which as the old saying goes is merely "a hole in the water in which you pour money"...how much is wholly and entirely up to you.


 don’t forget that the $3500 RMR will have already been in a landfill for 20+ years when a $6500 somewhat maintained Hyside finally gives it’s last run. So yes, long term, the Hyside comes out cheaper and a more reliable boat.

that said, a lesser boat now is better than no boat for a year or whatever all the backorders timelines are these days.


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## jimbridge2010 (Feb 17, 2015)

get a hypalon boat if you can. get the biggest one you can afford. anyone who tells you that you cant take a 16 foot boat the same places you take a 14 is blowing smoke.


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## UseTheSpinMove (Nov 16, 2016)

griz said:


> Buy once,cry once.


You'll find that everybody has so many opinions, and that there are so many options, that it there's no one answer. But I find that this advice (quote) is really important.

Raft set ups are expensive no matter what you do. You can try to save money by piecing together used, or you can get lucky with a unicorn deal on a great used set-up, or by buying cheaper-made rafts, and that's all fine and good, but if you're reasonably sure that you want to own a raft with your buddy and have some great family and friend experiences for a long time to come, it's worth considering spending money to just do it right. The only people I've ever met who have regretted buying a raft have been people who bought a piece of junk and spent a lot of money trying to get it to work well and it was never fun and then they finally gave up and their piece of junk still was not worth much. 

Plenty of advice already on here about brands and materials and sizes, etc (personally, I think 14' is pretty max for ideal for day fishing trips and 14' is big enough to run multi days on many rivers at many levels WITH a family on board if you get good at packing and planning). I have a 15' that is totally big enough for a few people on a multi-day, but would feel a little big to me for just going day fishing. That's all just personal though.


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## hysideguy67 (Jul 15, 2021)

Gipaldo said:


> RMR also has frame packages. For $5,339 you get the 14ft drop stitch raft, two bay frame, oars, Sawyer components, a poly deck, drop bags, cam straps...tough to beat
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You're post says 2 bay frame, dealer says 4 bay. If you pull the trigger clarify it's 4 bay. A 2 is a dayframe with a cooler bay


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

Hypalon... Buy once, cry once. Is well worth the investment in so many ways. Hyside, NRS, quality is great on both. You won't regret not buying a plastic boat, they work, but have their own draw backs.. The drawback to Hypalon is cost, but is completely offset by it's durability and longevity IMHO


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## okieboater (Oct 19, 2004)

The bottom line for a first raft, kayak, mountain bike genre of fun pieces of gear is find a decent deal, get on the water or trails and learn what works for you. Personal experience is what counts not what others think.

In my opinion, it does not matter what you buy first because soon as you can you will get rid of it because what works for other people may or many not work for you. And, till you get time on the water or trail you do not know what you do not know as far as rafting and what is the "best" setup for you.

I spent most of my boating life in kayaks. Always looked for the best one kayak. Never found it. When an accident made hard shell kayaks not recommended big time for me, I had 7 selected "best" kayaks that I had acquired over many decades of paddling kayaks. For me every one of those kayaks was the ideal craft for a specific run or float. 

Bottom line my recommendation is read all these opinions then buy what ever you can find that looks good (new or used does not matter) and get on the water ASAP and as often as you can on any water you can. No matter what your first raft is, I bet unless you really screwed up, that will not be your last raft. It sure was not for me.


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## Pinchecharlie (Jul 27, 2017)

My only dis agreement with okie is to wait till after peak run off before you buy lol! That way you don't get all kid at Christmas excited and get to worked an harsh your mellow! Youll buy again unless you spend a fortune.


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## Roseldo (Aug 27, 2020)

I’d focus more on size/use case more than brand. Boats are a lot like mountain bikes these days; there aren’t a lot of turds out there. Get a boat from any well known brand and it’ll be fine.


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## Nanko (Oct 20, 2020)

Go with a breakdown frame if possible, gives ample opportunity to experiment and customize as you learn what works best for you.


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## jerseyjeff (Apr 16, 2016)

If the boats are taken care of, they will last crazy long. I have 3 aires that are over 20 years old, and they still look great and handle great. Over time the valves can get tired, and need to be rebuilt. I have learned to really really hate rebuilding the valves "ship in a bottle" my ass. The nice thing is if you get a decent boat, but it is not the flavor you want, you will take a very small loss on it reselling it. If you want to use it this season, you need to buy something that is in stock and the seller can put their hand on it. If they say it will be there in a few weeks move on. I waited for 4 months for a frame that would be in "in 2 weeks" before I ordered a whitewater machine works frame (and I am WAY happier). It is a good idea to figure out what you will be boating most and get a ride for that. I am a fan of renting canyon boats because the sand and sun are the top two enemies of inflatables, and it can really hasten a boats demise. Also boating out east there really is no need for an 18 footer.


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## Gipaldo (7 mo ago)

Pulled the trigger on the 14ft RMR with 4 bay frame package. Super excited and appreciate all the helpful insights and info. Also super pumped to have stumbled onto this forum/community as it seems like a great resource for so many things.


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## jbLaramie (Feb 1, 2021)

Liked the ski analogy, spot on. Gweyduke’s post hit the nail on the head. For size, consider what you are now and then what might you use for the future. A lot of people who get serious about this have multiple rafts for different uses. If you are going by yourself with maybe 2-3 people on your boat, a 13 or 14 foot raft is a great jack of all trades. If going with family/kids on overnights or longer trips in bigger water, you’ll most likely want a 16 footer. If you get a 13–14 footer now, almost guarantee you’ll want to keep it if you decide to buy a bigger boat in the future.


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## alexisfire02 (6 mo ago)

Surprised to see a few people put Maravia and Sotar up with Wing and above Hypalon boats. My 3 cents coming in...

Tier 1 rafts. 
1. Wing / Hyside / Well made hypalon like Achilles / NRS. These are the cream. Many outfitters still have 40 year old Rogue Inflatables going strong.
2. Maravia / Sotar. But these are such a pain to store and really offer zero advantage over Hypalon. Hypalon is expensive. But these aren't?
3. Aire. Very good, but for some reason some of their boats still have fabric wear way too soon. 


Not Tier 1 rafts - Everything down here is a huge step down from everything above here. 
1. All luck of the draw with all these.


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## Whitewater Worthy Equip (Dec 11, 2013)

RMR makes great boats at a reasonable price point. The Construction is solid and I’ve not had a single warranty issue. They allow customers to put more into outfitting while keeping the investment below a price that is unobtainable to many buyers. Their quality is significantly higher that any other brand with a similar price point.


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## Gipaldo (7 mo ago)

Took it out on the upper C for the maiden voyage a week or so back. It's already been an endless money pit, but seeing light at the end of the tunnel. Splitting things three ways is a huge help


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## seydou (6 mo ago)

Gipaldo said:


> Took it out on the upper C for the maiden voyage a week or so back. It's already been an endless money pit, but seeing light at the end of the tunnel. Splitting things three ways is a huge help
> View attachment 80673
> 
> View attachment 80672


Congratulations, I am envious. I decided to buy new as well but went with a Hyside/DRE. And because of that decision, i will have to wait until next year before I can take pictures like yours. Enjoy.


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## coult45 (May 14, 2020)

Gipaldo said:


> Took it out on the upper C for the maiden voyage a week or so back. It's already been an endless money pit, but seeing light at the end of the tunnel. Splitting things three ways is a huge help
> View attachment 80673
> 
> View attachment 80672



Ahh just know, that light, you speak of. Isn’t the actual light you think it is. Trust me. You won’t ever get to the end. The tunnel doesn’t end. It’s tunnel-ception. The sooner you can accept this, the happier you’ll be. -some guy who just bought another piece of river gear, again.


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## Gipaldo (7 mo ago)

Oh I get it, skiing and every other expenseive hobby is the same way. I'm over the big hurdle of expenses though.


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## seydou (6 mo ago)

Gipaldo said:


> Oh I get it, skiing and every other expenseive hobby is the same way. I'm over the big hurdle of expenses though.



You're right. You've finished digging the hole. All that's left now is throwing money into it.


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