# Seeking Westwater advice



## pbowman (Feb 24, 2004)

I got on a Westwater permit in a couple weeks, and am looking for any experience/advice for taking my little raft (11.5' Otter). Planning to run with the oar frame with one passenger, but also might consider going as paddle raft R3 if passenger space is an issue for my group and advice from the buzzards encourages that.

I am anticipating flows in the 5-7k range given historical data and the current downward trend over the past weeks. Would that flow present any major challenges for me? It seems like skull and sock-it/catchers mitt will be the most challenging, any advice on those rapids or others in the little raft? Also have a friend on the permit thinking about taking their culebra R2, any thoughts on how that boat would handle flows in the 5-7k range and what rapids would pose the biggest challenge for them? Thanks in advance.


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## brendodendo (Jul 18, 2004)

I've run my super puma as a row boat, R2, R3, R4 and R5 down Westwater at medium flows. I would say that your little boat will be just fine. Make sure you do you safety talk on rapid day for any style you decide on. 

I can honestly say that marble gives me the most issues in my boat. Skull is the same move it always is. I find it harder to run skull trying to come out of the eddy after a scout, mostly we just run it. I hardly remember Sok It, it's a wave train..stay right.

Run in the middle of your group if you want good backup.


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## Skyman (Jun 26, 2006)

Skull should be easy to miss. Not so sure about sock it to me. I don't think you can skirt it. I try and hit it from the right side, with speed.

Skyman


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## WestSlopeWW (Jun 26, 2008)

The Catcher's Mit will be a good hit, just paddle into it and keep it straight. Dont bother scouting Skull, just go right to left as always. Scouting will just screw up your line. Run the rest of them down the middle as usual. It should be fun!


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## kazak4x4 (May 25, 2009)

Here is my run through WW at 5k cfs in my little boat, maybe it will help you find your lines:

YouTube - Westwater Canyon August 2008

Around 5k WW is probably the easiest level to run it.

Little D - wave train, watch for the Little D hole at the end of the wave train in the center of the river a little to the left. I've seen boats flip even at 5k, don't go sideways into it.

Marble is a straight wave train, just keep your boat down the current and keep on those oars

Funnel Falls is going to be your biggest problem. Make sure to stay off the left lateral. Hit it dead in the center of the V and get ready for a nice push to the river right. Stay off the right wall and keep in the current down.

Surprise - just past FF, it's a cork screw, it will want to take your boat and turn it to the right, making you go sideways into the wave. Just keep on the oars and keep the bow down current

Skull - regular approach. Approach on river right with your bow facing 90 to the right wall. So you are completely sideways to the current and Skull. As you come over the crest and start seeing the white water, pull backwards away from the right wall hard. It really only takes 3-4 good pulls to clear Skull and be in the safety. Once you clear the current, just point your boat down river and steer away from Rock of Shock. At this level, even if you get sucked into Skull, you will be fine.

Bowling Alley should be a fun wave train, just big rolling waves, keep the boat straight and keep on those oars.

Sock It To Me - is the biggest rapid on WW at that level in my opinion. First, give your thanks and praise to the SITM Guardian before you enter the rapid (look up when you see/hear the rapid, you will know what I mean  )
SITM gets higher at lower water. On this one the safe approach is from the right, bow straight down the current. As you start dropping into the pour over, look on your right and get ready for a very hard right lateral. Once you pass the right lateral wave, turn your boat towards Magnetic Wall and pull hard backwards (towards river right wall) to pull away from the Magnetic Wall. MW is a flipper at this level if you hit it sideways.

Last Chance - at this level the rock will be exposed, so the only way is to the left of it. Just a straight pour over drop and you are done.

When is your launch? 

Alex


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## UserName (Sep 7, 2007)

Biggest challenge if you Paddle Boat may be the wind on the paddle out.


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## kclowe (May 25, 2004)

Hi Philip!
I've taken my 12' oar boat down several times at those levels and haven't really had any problems. This has all been good advice. I did find that at around 3500cfs the right line through SITM is gone and it pushes you straight into the meat. Not sure when that line really goes away, though. I ran it the next weekend going center-to-left-pull-like-a-crazy-person and it was actually a little easier. Unfortunately, you won't know until you get there. This is probably going to be the hardest rapid in the little boat. However, don't underestimate funnel or Surprise. Go several feet further right than you think you should in Funnel and square up to the lateral. Miss the holes in Surprise because they are nastier than they look.
Best bet is to have someone along who knows the lines. Scouting isn't really an option for most of the rapids and when you can scout its a real pain.
Oh yeah, and when you enter Skull, repeat to youself at least twice "wait for it" before you pull to the left and don't try to break the lateral too early in the little boat. It'll push you right into the hole.
Have a GREAT time!!!


Kim


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## pbowman (Feb 24, 2004)

*The time is now. . .*

any last minute advice? i decided to take the oar rig, and will be fairly light (one passenger only) with minimal gear. practiced on shoshone with no issues last w/e at 2500 cfs, and actually worked on moving the boat around in some of the longer rapids/bigger waves of Wall, Superstition and the runout of Tombstone with no issue. i guessed that shoshone would be the closest i could get to the westwater experience this time of year.

i was pretty impressed with kazak's video, it seemed like those little narrow boats were about to dump you guys multiple times. launch is on saturday, so i anticipate flows just over 5k as well. the R2 culebra is not going, so i will be the only little boat on the trip as all others are 14' and bigger. later.


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## kazak4x4 (May 25, 2009)

5,000 cfs is probably the nicest flow at WW. The rapids are still serious enough, but the recovery is very good. SITM will be your biggest problem.


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## basil (Nov 20, 2005)

Yea, 5000 cfs is nice because the paddle out is still flowing. 

Scout Skull after you run it. Pull hard to the right into the big eddy. 

Don't forget beer for the float out. And water.


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## kazak4x4 (May 25, 2009)

Basil, I hope you meant to say left (as in river left) after the Skull, on the river right is Room of Doom. At that level it will be fine in there, but still. I have seen people flip coming out of it at lower than 5k cfs.


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## basil (Nov 20, 2005)

Yes, left, sorry. Don't know what I was thinking, ......or drinking.


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## jwey (Aug 14, 2008)

Straight forward at this level... Just keep your eye on the water (laterals). Skull is the usual move. Otherwise, start early if afternoon thunderstorms are forcasted... we did an August run 2 years ago and it took us a few hours to get through the flats due to strong afternoon winds.


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## mania (Oct 21, 2003)

Phillip I have decided to take a Paco Pad down so you won't be the smallest boat. Just follow my lines and it will all be good.


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## rivermanryan (Oct 30, 2003)

Phillip is a fine boater. I think he uses the 'buzz to build up his nerves for a more exciting trip.

Still have 6 spots available, PM me this morning if interested.


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## Colorado Ice (Jul 7, 2009)

*Advice on westwater*

I ran WW last weekend(July 18) at 6k in a 2 person NRS duckie with one person in the boat. I was floating with a small group consisting of one kyaker and 2 rafts. We all ran skull without misadventure. One raft, a 12 footer, rigged for fishing, with one person, moved back up river and scooted into the "Room" and circulated around for a few minutes and eventually pulled his way out without difficulty but with great effort.

I managed the enitire float in the duckie with one easy swim in SITM. I stalled at the top and of course got sideways and that was it---floated a minute or two and managed to get back in and continue. Seems if I'd had more momentum I would have made the wave in SITM. 

Bob


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## kazak4x4 (May 25, 2009)

I ran Skull once and that was in a paddle boat. When is Skull actually runnable? I'd like to try it, I am launching 15th of Aug.


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## WhiteLightning (Apr 21, 2004)

Philip, it is all read and run, square up to the waves as you see them, except you want to be ready for the one move at Skull. SITM, have some strong forward momentum. It may be better just to charge it than to try to skirt it. You will be able to scout from the boat a little bit during your approach.


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## Highside (Jul 11, 2008)

kazak4x4 said:


> I ran Skull once and that was in a paddle boat. When is Skull actually runnable? I'd like to try it, I am launching 15th of Aug.


Saw 2 boats run skull at 5000. 1st was a 5 or 6 person paddle boat that made it with no problem. The second was an oar boat and the 3 people and a dog were all tossed but no flips. Dont get me going about the fact the dog almost drowned! and they caused a big cluster***k because they did not know how to rescue each other much less the dog.


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## ric (Apr 12, 2004)

*Sunset runn !!*

Put on 6pm Tues, 5,000ish, 
It's all coming back................. beautiful green wave trains, 
LD beautiful breaking wave hole....
MC awesome sets! 
SurrPrise!!!!!
Skull is sharping up....
BA not there yet.......
SITM There.......
LJ over the top.........
Awesome sunset No moon 9:15 take-out #15
great level


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## mania (Oct 21, 2003)

You guys gave TERRIBLE advice to poor pbowman! Look what happened to him!

- mania


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## WhiteLightning (Apr 21, 2004)

awww man! What happened, besides growing a bushy beard??


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## kazak4x4 (May 25, 2009)

Oh man, was this last weekend? Looks like SITM got ya.


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## OleMissBoater (May 22, 2007)

Post-run advice.... You probably didn't have enough beer for the float-out... Bring more next time!


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## rivermanryan (Oct 30, 2003)

WhiteLightning said:


> SITM, have some strong forward momentum. It may be better just to charge it than to try to skirt it.


oops! must have missed this one before you left. j/k


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## kazak4x4 (May 25, 2009)

Look on the bright side, he did make it to SITM. SITM always gets WW newbies lol. Swimming after SITM is not as dangerous as from Funnel to Skull. So I assume everyone came out alright?


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## pbowman (Feb 24, 2004)

*trip report*

everything before SITM went fine, ran clean with no missed lines. greased skull, was to the left line with only a couple strokes and was well clear of the hole - big sigh of relief.

i was 5th in the lineup at SITM with the first paddle boat (mania the aspiring paparazzi photog) going thru well in front so i didn't see his line. watched the second boat (15' raft) go ok, slight stall on top but no issues. watch the third boat (16' raft) with no issue, even less stall. the fourth boat (16' cat) freaked me out because he stalled completely and spun on the wave, and i thought he was about to flip in front of me. i was trying to ferry out/slow down so if he did flip i wouldn't be adding to the carnage factor. he flushed off just as i was getting in the fast water above the tongue, so i still had time to set up and make my line but my nerves were shaky. i hit the wave square right in the gut, but only got one forward stroke in before the hit. i think another couple forward stokes would have helped, but i was definitely right on the line i wanted to make and square to the wave. the wave stood the boat up nearly vertical - the last "picture" in my mind was the bow and ellen being high above me completely out of the water - before the current pushed the stern out to the left, creating more of a roll instead of an bow-over-stern flip. ellen and i both got clear of the boat so no one was under it, and we both got caught before last chance. ellen lost her sunglasses, but everything on the boat stayed put. mania put down his camera to help me re-flip the boat, and we were back on track for last chance.

i got the flip out my system early in my rafting career, with a great safety crew around to help me out. thanks to everyone for your help in getting the boat collected, and to mania for making sure the moment was well documented. later.


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## pbowman (Feb 24, 2004)

new avatar in honor of mania's photo skills.

and BTW, the booty was not even my own. ellen must have had a premonition because the shot was patron gold she brought along rather randomly. later.


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## kazak4x4 (May 25, 2009)

Looks like you guys cleared the Magnetic rock, which is good! SITM is always a challenge at low water. Glad you made it out ok. I have my first video on youtube that I recorded of my buddy flipping an 18 foot cataraft on SITM at the exact same manner as you described your buddy cat surfing. He did exactly the same thing, surfed, turned side ways on the wave and rolled. 

Did you like the canyon overall?

Alex


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## Andy H. (Oct 13, 2003)

> i got the flip out my system early in my rafting career


I think what you really mean is you got your FIRST flip out of your system early.

My first oar rig flip was also SITM. This rapid is underrated and is the real raft flipper on Westwater. I think gets a lot of folks because after getting past Skull, people lower their guard, have a fun run on Bowling Alley and then get hammered by SITM or the Magnetic Wall. Good to hear you had a strong crew to recover before going into Last Chance.

And if you're going to drink out of a bootie, at least Patron's got antispetic capabilities!

SYOTR,

-AH


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## Fuzzy (May 25, 2005)

I will be rowing westy for the 1st time in two weeks and have to admit I am not looking forward to sitm. Heard storys of a line far right any truth for a 16' sneak


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## mania (Oct 21, 2003)

Fuzzy said:


> I will be rowing westy for the 1st time in two weeks and have to admit I am not looking forward to sitm. Heard storys of a line far right any truth for a 16' sneak


Don't sneak it! Gut it! Seriously its one of the best hits.


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## Andy H. (Oct 13, 2003)

Fuzzy - The right side sneak line is good. I like to run it by starting left and then forward-ferrying to the right for extra momentum to punch through SITM's right-side lateral. Its not a hard lateral to punch but you have to time your L > R move properly. If I just jinxed myself I'll let you know in a couple of weeks...

-AH


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## Fuzzy (May 25, 2005)

Andy H. said:


> Fuzzy - The right side sneak line is good. I like to run it by starting left and then forward-ferrying to the right for extra momentum to punch through SITM's right-side lateral. Its not a hard lateral to punch but you have to time your L > R move properly. If I just jinxed myself I'll let you know in a couple of weeks...
> 
> -AH


 Thanks Andy. I will be pretty loaded down as we are taking out in Moab so a flip would really suck.


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## kazak4x4 (May 25, 2009)

Fuzzy, when is your launch? I will be down there on 15th and running the rapids on 16th.


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## Fuzzy (May 25, 2005)

kazak4x4 said:


> Fuzzy, when is your launch? I will be down there on 15th and running the rapids on 16th.


we put on Monday the 10th counting down the days!!


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## kazak4x4 (May 25, 2009)

Sweet! Let us know how it goes.

You know, now that I think about it, I wonder if PBOWMAN gave his praise to SITM guardian? I bet ya that was his mistake, he was watching the dudes in front of him too much to pay attention to the only one you should be praying to approaching SITM! lol

Alex


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## st2eelpot (Apr 15, 2008)

I guided this for 3 years. SITM seems to be the biggest hit around 4500 cfs. 
3 or 4 ways to run SITM-

1a- left to right- hit the meat. Tends to be the biggest hit
1b- great to do with custies- left to right, same as above, but moments before the rapid tell everyone (paddle boat) to run to the front of the boat. Can submerge crew if the wave is good- acts like a torpedo.
2- Same line as #1 but backpaddle prior to rapid. enter SLOW. Boat will stall on the wave, fill the entire raft (if not entirely submerge it), push you left into the closet missing magnet wall by about 15 ft. (eddies out before magnetic) Is fun. Then, eddie out of the closet once the boat drains, and cruise by magnetic wall. The trick of this line is to still be lined up w/ the laterals the whole time, yet enter as slowly as possible.

3- right to left into the catchers mitt. Smaller hit, and can back ferry towards river right so no where near Magentic wall. Make sure to line up with the larger of the 2 laterals making the catchers mitt!

4- far right sneak. Don't know it, never ran it.


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## kazak4x4 (May 25, 2009)

#2 sounds pretty technical but would be fun to try without gear. Have you pulled it off successfully? Thanks for sharing!


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## coloradopaddler (Jun 16, 2005)

i've always just ran right down the middle, with as much forward momentum as possible. so far i've only been stopped in my canoe, rode out a little back surf and it let me go. so far anyway!


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## jmetten (Apr 23, 2008)

Run the meat in Skull, hit it straight on. Last year's mini me attempt:


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## boatmusher (Jun 18, 2008)

jmetten

Impressive! Very impressive. I've always wanted to take my mini-me down there.


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## st2eelpot (Apr 15, 2008)

I've run #2 a few times, but not many. I've also gotten stuck on magnetic wall. 

One of our other guides ran #2 every time since it meant he didn't have to worry about getting stuck on the wall.


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## kazak4x4 (May 25, 2009)

I've seen too many boats get into trouble with the Magnetic wall to mess with it at lower water. I try to hit the right lateral and then get the hell away from the wall.


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## CUBuffskier (Jul 7, 2005)

I agree with basil we just paddled from little d to cisco yesterday and it was pretty much a perfect level. Every move and set up was easy to make and the wave trains in staircase are still very big and consequence free. 

I'm not sure if the right line is there for kayaks yet in skull, was pretty hard to see.

SITM seemed a lot more like a horizontal breaking wave then a v-wave running it yesterday. You could kind of skirt it on the right edge, but it was very straight forward lining up for the big meat of the wave in the middle. Not really many sideways laterals to throw you off line.

We floated the entire stretch after the rapids and still didn't take terribly long - was about 6-8 beers worth in length for me, not sure what that was time wise.


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## jco6560 (Aug 3, 2009)

6-8 beers was the equivalent of about 3 hrs of total float the last 6 miles.


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