# HIGH water flows in the BLACK CANYON!



## milo (Apr 21, 2004)

several days a go i was called by the blm out of montrose..... they have been having trouble doing repairs on the dam above the canyon....this is why we have not seen the rumored releases yet.... he said, "hopefully, we will be testing the new bearings soon. we need to test them at full capacity which is 2,300 cfs......you will see flows at every level in between 600 and 2,300....." he added that they would be returning the flows back to the meager 300 cfs range(because of the past years of drought) after this test.....these high flows not happened for several years or more.....i am already losing sleep and writing down a list of excuses to get out of work!!!!!! a "nature seminar" in montrose is my number one so far........a run at 1800 cfs changed me as a person in the early days.... made my friend sell his gear and buy a motorcycle........a beating, a swim and a nearly unsuccessful swimmer rescue......temporarily blinded(lack of O2) and vommiting he was not being a good little swimmer man.... crawling all over me above LOWER INTESTINE(doomy class V) we almost flushed into it.....i was screaming for him to let go.....i wasn't going to "explore the left side of the drop" with him...... a most beautiful and GOD-LIKE surge came from under the wall(2,000ft) and we managed to surf-claw-5.15d-freak along the very wall that would not help seconds earlier to what is now called the "phone booth".... last year i had to make a "call" from the very same "phone booth"............sorry to ramble... i hope it is just the strong coffee making me sweat bullets right now.......keep you eyes on the flows......if you decide to go into the BLACK HOLE..... "waatch yourself"................milo


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## Meng (Oct 25, 2003)

Thanks for the update Captain Black. We've been waiting for the release.... 2,300 sounds, uhhh, a little scary though. Is there any more specific ETR (estimated time of release). And hows it gonna work?? I'd guess they'd gradually increase flows to 2300 and then gradually drop again. Keep us posted.

-Looking forward to water in the Black,
Menges.


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## hobie (Nov 3, 2003)

If anyone is headed there and wants company, please let me know. This is a run I have always wanted to do. Im game for short notice when it pops up to the right levels. Call me at 970 390-6860. Day trip or overnighter. whatever works.

hobie


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## MikeG (Mar 6, 2004)

*Ran it at 2200*

Thought I'd chime in- We ran it at 2200 back in 2000 and it was pretty epic. We had to portage way more than normal (you might not) and it was hard to finish in three days. Even the big waterfall looked too sticky to run and the guide rock couldn't be seen. Some of the must make eddies and ferries were a little sketchy too. The good news, though is that the forests of poison ivy are at there peak of ripeness this time of year! Have fun, be safe and via con rios.
MikeG


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## Meng (Oct 25, 2003)

Just in case anyone from work sees my above post, no Im not going to paddle the Black, potentially worsening my shoulder and jeapordizing my workmans comp. My buddies are hoping to go when its up and im just going to capture it on film from the rim and by hiking down to beach camp, so dont raise a stink, alert the authorities and get me in trouble..........
Thanks


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## ski_kayak365 (Dec 7, 2003)

*possible dates of flows*

I ran gunni this weekend, and the rangers said that possible dates are sept, 18-25 with flows up to 1600, peaking around the 22-23. thats all that they know. so if it happens it will be soon.


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## milo (Apr 21, 2004)

this weekend i am committing to another multisport DAY before the flows go UP......a solo playboat run, a scramble to meet my climbing instructor to get a 5-8 hour 5.9 rock route up to the N. rim, retreat(scramble) back to my boat, do the "swHELL" portage, finish the river fun, take my "new shortcut" back to the top of the S. rim(warner trial...3,000vert), get on my bike and ride 12+ miles back to the put-in car.......all said and done...... i should "enjoy" +-13,000ft of gain and drop thru car, boat, climb, hike and bike.....i should be able to shave at least 2 hours of the hike out warner trail(5 hours my first go because i got cliffed out or lost!) i will start in the dark(coffee at DAY WRECKER rapid) and finish or at least go into the fetal position in the dark! i expect 16+ hours of "enjoyment"... "RIM TO RIM"..... when the flows get close to 1,000cfs i will attempt a "double run"... twice the rapids, twice the nature, twice the ivy, twice the portages.....twice the fun....this can be achieved!!!! i feel this because i "accidentally" got to chukar trail in 5.5 hours at 750cfs on my first solo run 3 years ago!!!! that was with extra portages due to the "lonliness factor", a regular half hour lunch/smoke break and a minor epic which swoll one eye shut.....So, solo first run(speed purposes)no lunch on the first run, and paddle a couple more drops(LOWER INTESTINE, PRINCIPALS' OFFICE and SIEVE CITY), hike Warner trail the first run(eliminating the hell shuttle),along with increased confidence of a dozen or more runs in the "hole".... then, have a buddy along for the second run that knows the run well enough to not have to scout, paddle some mellow shit in the dark on the way to chukar trail( a super mellow hike at 850vert ft.) sound fun? i will let you know how they go....i am not crazed or crazy......i am bored and misunderstood and just turned 40!!!!


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## cosurfgod (Oct 10, 2003)

Will it be good to go on Saturday or will it still be rising? I would like to go this weekend but only if it is at least over 1200 cfs. Thanks for any info.


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## milo (Apr 21, 2004)

who knows.. he said they have had many problems getting the repairs done... keep lookig into the flows... if it starts going up in a matter of days, we are all in "LUCK".....once we looked at the flow level at the ranger station at the s. rim....it said 1240cfs(a superb level) well, they added another 600cfs that day and i became lost(run #3)... we epic'd to say the least!!! it was very rowdy at the level we experienced that day..... i would be ready for the flows now....hope they come......


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## brendodendo (Jul 18, 2004)

*I talked to BoR manager today*

They told me the flows will vary greatly between 9/21 and 10/1. This weekend will run about 400cfs. Tuesday they will begin the tests and bump it up to aprox. 1600 to 1800 cfs and then take it down to about 300cfs. They do not know what the levels will be since they need to test it at all water levels to test the repairs they made at crystal dam. She also told me that they will vary very quickly and that the flow will definitely not be consistent. Dam, I was hoping this weekend would be good, but what can you do.


Knowledge and wisdom can not be gained without fist being given the chance- BP


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## tpalka (Oct 31, 2003)

Great -- thank you for the update -- I'll go run it anyways... curious what it's like at that level 

tom.


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## milo (Apr 21, 2004)

****5:45pm******on my way home from the gunny playhole, with the academy kids, i got the call from BLM man.... he stated that if "all goes well, we will start bumping up the flows....200cfs per 8 hours(sounds great for an overnighter) starting on the 22nd or 23rd.....will push it to 1600 cfs... peaking on the 24th, 25th or 26th depending on how it goes...".... i do not know why he said 2300cfs the first call several days ago!?!?!?!? regardless,.....we are in for some in your face "FUN"....sounds as though there may be some folks on the river during the releases....have fun,.... dawn dishwasher soap is the key to ivy control.....a thin layer on the skin... below your eyes only!... is super effective.......hey "salida tom", when are you going in this weekend? i am putting on.... on sat at about 530ish or 600ish am....the guy with the head-lamp and glassy red eyes with a BIG grin.......that'll be me.... 8)


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## tpalka (Oct 31, 2003)

Hey Crested Butte Milo  I'll be putting on sometime on Saturday morning -- but we'll be going down the Gunny Gorge, not the Black Canyon. My girlfriend started paddling just this year, so I'm looking for class III runs that she can enjoy. You're probably running the Black Canyon, right? I doubt that we'll be putting on too early on Saturday -- probably leaving around 10am from the Chukar parking lot... 

tom.


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## milo (Apr 21, 2004)

hey salida tom, yep i'm going in the "hole"... as for the gorge section.....there is one drop that beats up beginners... it is an "s" turn that turns left at the bottom....goes up against the wall... you need to make this left or you get into some nasty rocks.... the hole is a 5 ft pourover that flushes... just watch for the rocks....have fun and keep an eye out for the mtn. lions... thick population! later!


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## merry prankster (Mar 22, 2004)

edited to remove contact info


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## IllEspo (Sep 16, 2004)

*good luck Milo*

You guys should see this Milo guy right about now. He's freakin to an extreme level. Every day in the van on the way to the play park "Oh man guys..." It's pretty funny to watch. All I have to say is Miloshte, good luck man.


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## milo (Apr 21, 2004)

hey merry prankster... the call came from 970-248-6000...(swithboard) ..other calls came from 6000 something #'s.. like 248-6004....anyhow, the first call last week came from somebody at the Black Canyon.....who was definitely BLM.... steve or rick... i remember more about the cfs's than his name! eh hahh e h ah i requested to be put on a list that gets release info....they agreed because they know me because of the amont of permits i've filled out(kayking,2 person ducky, innertube)...what office are you talking about? My buddy Brent, a climbing RANGER is pretty dialed in on the flows....he lives on the N. rim....maybe he can help you.... milo


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## merry prankster (Mar 22, 2004)

Milo - Thanks! We were able to confirm it with the BOR this morning. I appreciate the follow-up and the call. The Grand Junction office will issue press releases next week... And, they said 2300 cfs was/is the target.


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## milo (Apr 21, 2004)

....


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## milo (Apr 21, 2004)

excuse the last post as i did not see or read the previous.......m


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## milo (Apr 21, 2004)

hey Ill....


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## tpalka (Oct 31, 2003)

*Gunny Gorge was good...*

...even at 480cfs. I agree with previous posters -- should be good for a while still. If you're curious what it's like at 480, check pictures here:

http://www.slackerdom.com/2004/09_gunnison_gorge/index.html


tom.


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## milo (Apr 21, 2004)

well, well well,......put on at 6:15(as soon as i could see the car parked next to me!) a few cartwheels and stalls and i was off....paddled to DAYWRECKER(a horrible sight at 6:40am)...a few extra portages because of the meager flows and then i was at the waterfall....not wanting to waste an hour portaging the falls, i managed(10 minutes of foul language,bullet sweating and super crimping 5.14) to pull myself up onto the rock(sketchy because of the sieve/drop/waterfall-spout thing less than 5 feet away) and plop down safely into the river left eddy! this maneuver put an "s" on my chest and off i went, cape flappin' in the drizzle(shizzle, manizzle,d-o double dizzle)...sent some smoke signals to my climbing instructor, then scrambled up the CRUISE to the base of the climb....9:00am started the climb, went super well(short and "easy") i then had a 1 hour picnic at the N. Rim overlook, watching climbers get worked in the rain and drizzle( i heard loads of cuss words echoing thru the canyon that day)....1:00pm started my retreat( 2 rappels, some mellow down-climbing-scramblin' and i was back at my boat....1:40pm sent more smoke signals(communication purposes)and started the "hell" portage.....2:35pm suited up and put back on(had to try a new low water sketch-ferry(instead of the 2nd ferry) inside NEW GENERATION FALLS....read: DOOMY...NOT RECOMMENDED!!) several more minutes portaging in the rain(greasy assed rocks!) and time to put back on.....Ok, i tell myself....pay attention.....5 paddle strokes later i was doing an unintentional rock 360....then slid into a "smallish" pourover....backlooped... hit rock.....then more rocks... then more rocks.... then got rodeo'd.....squezzed thru a slot(yuk!)....took one more heavy hit to head and back of neck( i love my WILDWATER helmet!).... this whole time i was attempting rolls.... i wondered how Rodney King would have felt being under water thru his ordeal!!!!...panic set in when i thought about how hard it is to get into my S-6:190.....swimming? , NO OPTION.....i rolled up on my 5th try..... a "calm spot" was actually a swirling drain backed up by a typical B.C. sieve....a struggle to get out of of my low angle stern stall....some hand work on a large boulder and before my hemet was finished draining i was back in the safety of the rapid......the drop had ripped the "S" of my chest and stuffed the cape up my ASS!!!! i was very concerned about the drops that were to come(below the beach-camp)... i started to portage drops that i hadn't before... they were a mess at this level(480cfs-not recommended!)....anyhow, an extra hour of portagages and i showed up at WARNER TRAIL(5:00Pm) i ripped the back side of my shorts when getting out of my boat....more on that topic later!...5:15pm started the "shortcut" hike...went smooth and i topped out on the saddle at 7:00pm(I did manage to "shave" 2.5 hours of the "hike").....with only 400 vert and a 3/4 mile hike on a FLAT maintained trail to go.....7:45pm-i reach HIGHPOINT parking lot....find the borrowed 1984 TREK ANTELOPE "CLUNKER"...cool, windy, rainy and pitch black, i search for my headlamp...i am not impressed by the "rotten" tires...a bagel,1/2 a snickers, a red bull and the usage of my "nose heater"......put on a dry shirt and windbreaker and off i went to get the car at the put-in.... i bare-assed the mtn bike(read: large whole in surf shorts) and cruised thru the rain and lightnin'...only a 6+ mile climb and a sketchy down hill.....a nice ride (minus the ass chaffe!!!) at 13 miles.......9:45pm-arrive at the car only to find the keys missing!!!!! another panic session(i am not talking about WIDESPREAD PANIC!!!) and then i found them hanging on the radio antenna!!!! they must have fallen on the ground from the bumper....off to get my kayak!!!! all said and done, i'd estimated 16 hours....with a long lunch, setbacks and short breaks, i'd come in at 15.5 hours........23 hours "bed to bed"....a great day of "nature"..........*****ALERT******Steve(BLM man) from G. junction just called.... he said problems have popped up... we may start to see the 200 cfs bumps this weekend, not on the 21st or 22nd..... ps. i do have other "multisport-mini-missions".... i'd like some company.....970-275-1890


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## gapers (Feb 14, 2004)

Damn Tpalka, Lisa's Hot. Can we get some more pictures of her?


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## milo (Apr 21, 2004)

no [email protected]#t, gaper.... how about more pics!? i like the other shots as well......hey lisa, what's your sign?... and what is you DEN setting? or do you tele?ehheheh ah ah ah eh


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## tpalka (Oct 31, 2003)

Ha, mental note, don't put pictures of girlfriend on the web


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## cosurfgod (Oct 10, 2003)

I see it has started to come up. Is this the big release? Will it be over 1000 for the weekend? What level does the surfing get good in the Gunni Gorge? Can anyone help with Shuttle Saturday morning at Pleasure Park? Will I get to see this Milo? Any info is greatly apreciated.

Thanks


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## milo (Apr 21, 2004)

i will be at a wedding on sat in telluride(bummer but moma's cookin' will be playing)... then off that night to go meet my boys...at east portal...anybody wanna help with the shuttle.. my boys think warner is not worthy...we will take out at chukar(old school)....just kiddin'...hey cosurfgod...are you goin in the "HOLE" call me.. am off to shoshone right now with the students from the Academy.....my number is posted.....


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## brendodendo (Jul 18, 2004)

*T are we still on for saturday?*

I'd love to goin if I can get the day off. My boss is not being cool with the idea. I think I can come Sat morning hopefully. Will rent boat in GS. More info call me


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## cosurfgod (Oct 10, 2003)

Brendodendo- 
The water has been great here and if it stays for the weekend we are going stay here. If not, Saturday morning is fine. We will have all day in the Canyon. Can we get some action on the Roaring Fork or Crystal or is it done? I saw it came up from the rain but not much. I think we are heading back Saturday afternoon/night. I would change plans for more rivers. Let me know.

T


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## milo (Apr 21, 2004)

i noticed huge amounts of snow up that drainage(crystal) yesterday on the way to shoshone... you may be able to paddle it, but may also need to bring your ski-touring gear....it looked like full-on winter up there....super beautiful.....are you guys throwing down at the "derrango" riverpark????or are you guys creeking over there....would love to follow somebody down your creeks in trade for a "guide" down the BLACK....i "think"(j/k) i can remember the lines....i doubt that sikkos of your caliber of sickness need that but it does speed things up.........as far as the BLACK....if it goes 600cfs or more(maybe 700) i'd go in on sunday if you are interested....480cfs was a bit sketchy...slower, but kinda, um, dangerous......a great "creek" style run at flows up to 800cfs....lots of boofs..... one that comes in at about 16 ft! at higher water it probably lives up to its 18ft reputation.....i could pull off a monday run if flows look better(higher)970 -275-1890 m


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## TGunz (May 7, 2004)

*Black Canyon*

Whats up with the Black Canyon this weekend? Bored Salidan looking for some fun in the river, since I'm not in West Virgina  I've never been but eager to go.


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## milo (Apr 21, 2004)

*another rumor?*

i was called by a Western State College student who kayaks(one of two under-25-year-olds that i did not have to carry a boat thru the "hell" portage for)....anyhow, he had a guest speaker from the Black Canyon come and talk to his environmental class....apparently she said flows have already started to go up and that she expected "it" to peak on sunday at 1600cfs?!!?!??! has anybody else heard this? why does the BLM and the Black Canyon have differnet stories?????? i'd rather believe the BLM man out of G.J.!......... hey merry prankster, can you help with this? call or post.....it will be a good thing to know how much "FUN" will be awating us in the "hole"!... thanks....


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## merry prankster (Mar 22, 2004)

*From the Horses Mouth*

Quoting the Bueau of Reclamation:

Through the week of September 27th to October 4th and possibly into the following week, the Crystal Power Plant will be conducting generation testing at Crystal Dam. A variety of tests will be performed which will require a variety of release rates from the powerplant. The exact timing of these tests will be determined by plant operators at Crystal Dam and plant operators will coordinate all changes with the Glen Canyon Control Room. In order to maintain a degree of safety and channel habitat in the river channel below Crystal Dam, the following ramping restrictions should be followed during the testing period:

1. Assending Ramp rates should not exceed 200 cfs in any 8 hour period. 4
hours before the 100% load rejection test total releases should be equal to the maximum bypass release (~2000 cfs). It will be necessary to begin the ascending ramp 28 hours prior to the 100% load rejection test.

2. Descending Ramp rates when the initial total release is greater than 2000 cfs shall be limited to 150 cfs per 6 hour period.

3. Descending Ramp rates when the initial total release is greater than 1800 cfs shall be limited to 100 cfs per 6 hour period.

4. Descending Ramp rates when the initial total release is greater than 1200 cfs shall be limited to 125 cfs per 12 hour period. Changes will occur at 6:00 a.m. and 6:00 p.m. each day.

Prior to beginning the load rejection testing, operators at Crystal will coordinate the initial ascending ramp from 1350 cfs to 2000 cfs (total release) with the Glen Canyon Control Room. Total releases shall be held at 2000 cfs as much as possible during the load rejection testing. After the heat run testing is complete, the descending ramp shall follow the criteria described above until releases reach 1200 cfs. Total releases should be held constant once they reach 1200 cfs until further notice.


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## milo (Apr 21, 2004)

*from the incredible talking horse.... ED!!*

thththanks mmerry pprankster(gulp!)....i appreciate the post......do you boat??


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## Meng (Oct 25, 2003)

TGunz?? Youre a Salidian?? Me too! Who are you?? Im just wondering 'cause you end up knowing most of the boaters here (especially ones who can paddle the Black) and Tgunz doesnt sound familiar. Some folks from here might be heading over there so get in touch (i can only shoot on this one due to injured shoulder).
-Chris Menges.


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## milo (Apr 21, 2004)

......


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## brendodendo (Jul 18, 2004)

*talked to BoR today*

I called the Bureau of Reclamation today. they told me that they would leave the flows the same through the weekend. Now I read flows may come up? Disparity kills me. Whom to believe?


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## milo (Apr 21, 2004)

.....i guess the info that merry prankster posted is the shiznit...i believe the flows chart(phateye).....my boys went in this morning.....with some folks from durango....they are doing an overnighter...camping at the first ferry, the "climber-camp".....i think more kayakers camp there than climbers...there is a rad 40ish footer upstream of the camp....hidden in the boulders.....take a peek...i may put on sun am and catch them sleepin'....


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## JCKeck1 (Oct 28, 2003)

TGunz - how was the summer Tom? I ran into Watson at a hospital in CO Springs while doing my EMT clinicals - he says hi. I called you a couple of times to go to Crested, but I think I may have the wrong number. This winter I'll be patrolling at Keystone so gimme a call if you're in the neighborhood. Say hi to the Roots crew for me.
Joe
(303) 594-9733

P.S. I was in North Carolina and WV right after hurricane frances and it was sick. Sorry you missed it. :lol:


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## cosurfgod (Oct 10, 2003)

Where is our 1000+ CFS?!! Is it this weekend? Those rangers don't know shit! :roll:


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## milo (Apr 21, 2004)

*??????????????*

i'm puttin' my money on mid week.....cosurfgod, wanna go in when it starts to go up?....it is doin' nothing right now...normal fluctuations and by the way at flows near the 6-700 range there really is good play in there....some rad walls and rocks to splat.... 2 really good holes, one is kinda sketchy though, the other is at the end of the run, at the bottom of the Painted Wall....just below the 8' boof(at the big pink boulder)... it is a good looking hole with a good eddy river left!... i've been munched in it at higher flows... it is in a safe place, just above the last 5' boof....anyhow, i wanna bring my H3 in there with some water....."where oh where have the releases gone?.....where oh where could they be?".....


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## ski_kayak365 (Dec 7, 2003)

milo:
what kind of experience do you need to run the black? i know im not ready for it, just interested.
thanks
josh


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## cosurfgod (Oct 10, 2003)

Milo,
my creekboat just cracked and I am desperately trying to get a Gus/ new creekboat. I haven't had any luck. I was just wanting to surf in the Gunni Gorge. I hear there is good surf when the water is up. I don't think I have the skills to take my S6 down the Black Canyon but with someone experienced like you I am tempted. Big consequenses for mistakes in there. Sorry.


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## milo (Apr 21, 2004)

I remember when i was first starting to think about the "run"(circa 1993-94)... my hairboater buddies told me that, "once you're cartwheelin' thru GORE canyon...then you'll be ready for the BLACK"... this made sense at the time because nobody was really cartwheelin' in there....now, everybody is!....in fact i've never taken a creek boat thru there....so, i do not know if that still stands to be true....the "HOLE" paddles really well, but is very sketchy....every rock is part of an undercut-sieve-cave system it seems(not always obvious)....the lines are there...just don't miss'em....many drops paddle like class 4's, but doomy consequences await the off line boater.... there are some bigISH class 5's(DAY WRECKER, LOWER INTESTINE, PRINCIPAL'S OFFICE, PINBALL CITY(aka SIEVE CITY) and BALL CRUSHER....several others might seem to be 5- with other's hittin' the scale at 5+....the rapid below the Painted Wall(GREAT FALLS of the GUNNY) needs some exploration!!!!others will always be portaged.... then again there many 3's and 4's... a great canyon experience... it is not as hard as... say... the N.F. Payette(nothing like it)....i'm lost now... i am not a hairboater...there are drops that i've paddled solo, but portaged when others are around....it is a place that makes you think....and makes you trust your gut.....you could be a solid class 4 boater and portage your ass off, but mentally it may be too much!.....i've seen many wipeouts in there and heard of many more.....i think that it is super important to know how to boof in there....i have not answered your question, i know....it is a difficult question.....what i can say is that every 100 cfs goes a long way in there...it gets pushy and much harder at say 1200-1400cfs...i feel that 800-900cfs is a great level for first timers....********BEWARE OF THE DROPS IN THE HELL PORTAGE ZONE******** i just like the BLACK, it offers more than kayaking.....nature and adventure.....bla bla bla..just call me when you want to go in....i'll go with you,...we'll have a blast!!!!!....cosurfgod,get a boat soon!!!


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## ski_kayak365 (Dec 7, 2003)

thanks for the info milo. You did answer my question in a way that I understood. Ill let you know, but it will be some time, i only ran gore for my first time this summer in a creeker. but thanks anyway.


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## merry prankster (Mar 22, 2004)

Milo -- I boat, but I am up in SLC. California usually get's chosen over color'd for long drives. The Black C has been on my list for a long time, but something always seems to get in the way... Let me know if they actually manage to get the flow over 600. 

One can never really be sure what the Bureau of reclamation (BOR) is thinking. I got skunked out of a release on the murtaugh that they had told me over the phone was "guarranteed to happen, it was just a question of when..." Lying bastards. I hope you get the flows you want...


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## Bryan Houle (Nov 5, 2003)

milo, i'm trying to figure out what the named rapids are. i assume daywrecker is that first V? what is the name of the rapid right above the 18 footer? that's definitely a solid V.

and how about the name of the rapid about halfway down to the 18 footer, it has some sweet double drop boofs at the entrance, followed by a cave/sieve jumble blocking 2/3 of the river and a sketchy "safe" line on the left?

cosurfgod, are you still looking for a gus? i have one that i may be able to part with. great condition. orange.


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## milo (Apr 21, 2004)

bryan, the drop just above the 18ft'er is called LOST BOY SLOT(after my friend who forgot which slot to run....middle-most flows or left-highwater, never right-doomy).. he swam, solo and found the "jurassic park" cave entrance just before he washed over the far right curling-doomy slot!!1 anyhow, the bigbird, 2 drops up from the 18'er is called BALL CRUSHER....I've seen grotesque displays of river carnage in there! the other big bird is called TRIPLE DROP(far left for life!!!..horrible toilet bowl-drain, backed up by the 2/3'S riverwide blocks-sieve)...it "empties directly into PRINCIPALS' OFFICE(old growth log spanning the river at end)...if you want i could send(email) the sequence or list.....


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## milo (Apr 21, 2004)

*releases are here!!!*

game on , the flows-releases are here!!!!!.. who wants to go in?calll soon to make plans.... mid week or weekend!!!!970-275-1890


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## hobie (Nov 3, 2003)

Im in. How about Thursday? 

hobie


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## N. Wigston (Nov 5, 2003)

hobie,

we are putting in on thursday morning. call me and we can set up shuttle. 
303-809-8942

nick wigston


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## milo (Apr 21, 2004)

*releases are here!!!*

...


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## N. Wigston (Nov 5, 2003)

does anyone know the number for the bureau of reclamation.


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## timmaay (Sep 29, 2004)

*I'm going in on Sat*

Looks like flows could still be up if they ramp up slowly and then ramp it back down again. If anyone wants to meet me there on Fri night then let's do it. I've run it before.... once. Call 801-560-3653 (SLC). 

Also, Merry Prankster, you live in SLC too. Do we know each other? I mainly boat in Cali too. Give me a call. I'm always looking for someone to boat with that lives here in SLC.


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## N. Wigston (Nov 5, 2003)

i talked to a guy at the bureau of rec today. the reason it stopped rising is because they had some issues with the turbine. he got an update from the dam and they said things are going well now. they will probably begin releasing again tonight or tomorrow. IF ALL GOES WELL. They are not 100% sure about anything. Keep your eyes on the flows, if it jumps up 200cfs that means they are starting. if they start today or tomorrow, flows will be over 1000 cfs. highest over the weekend. (~1500 - 1800cfs)
again, this is not 100% sure, but they seemed fairly confident. they have been very helpful to tell us this info. 

nick


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## merry prankster (Mar 22, 2004)

Timaay -- If you drive a big ass white truck, and love chainsawing on moonlite nights, then I do know you. This is Ed. If not, I too am in bad need of new boating partners, preferably with decent non-imploded shoulders...


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## doublet (May 21, 2004)

Drive a big truck.....


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## Larsen (Oct 20, 2003)

Any one in for a one day run on sunday, if it's still high?


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## milo (Apr 21, 2004)

************they're here!!!!!**********

jimmy hinge(larsen),get your shit together before you go camping with your girl in the BLACK...i'll bring your boatin' shit... i will probably go in on sat as well as sunday.....back to back runs should be fun.....w'ell get melentrod for sunday.....C. Blackmore! ps are you sure you don't want to cancell the camp trip?!!!!>!>!>!>!>!>!


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## Chief Niwot (Oct 13, 2003)

*Road into Gunni Gorge and the Chuker Trailhead*

I hear the road to the Chuker trailhead put in is 4X4 quality and can be a real problem if it rains. Can anyone confirm this and has it been raining there? Thanks for your responses.


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## Schizzle (Mar 26, 2004)

*Road to gunny gorge*

It's bumpy, but I was in there when it was dry and I think a high-clearance 2X could send it no prob. I also don't think a 4X4 would have any problems when it's wet either. There's some junior sandstone shelves you have to go over (6-8")and I think that's what everyone makes a fuss about. Maybe some puddles, but pretend you're in your boat and you're punching a hole (-:


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## rivermanryan (Oct 30, 2003)

The road is a totally different story when wet. I think Schizzle is right about the back side that tends to be a little rough, but the front side is in some Mancos Shale that gets super snotty very fast with little rain. With a decent amount of rain, I would say 4x4 is mandatory. After a good rain it might not be passable or at least have some rope or a winch.

If dry, you can do it in a 2wd with decent clearance.


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## tpalka (Oct 31, 2003)

Yup, I think it's a different story when wet. Was on it once after the rains and went for a loooong slide down one of the sections. 

The guys who drive for Leroy say that generally it takes 3-4 hours for the road to be driveable again -- so bring a good book and wait until the road dries up.


tom.


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## CREEKER138 (Apr 14, 2004)

Looking for someone to do the bc with this weekend. one or two day. give me a call. 970 668 0517 
glen


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## el gordo (Oct 10, 2003)

I just got off the phone with the Forest Service? 970-240-5300 in Montrose, and Leroy (shuttle service) from Pleasure Park. 

Gov't folks says some vehicles have been stuck on the Chukar road. Leroy said he cancelled shuttle service yesturday and today. The word seems to be the ground is saturated, and may take more than the usual 4-5 hours to dry out. Leroy said, eight or nine times to me, that the road is snotty, snotty, snotty, but that he had plenty of Fat Tire on tap should you choose to wait it out til Fri or Sat. The flows are expected to die off Monday.

This really sucks because the flows are not due to the RAIN. For once, I am asking for NO Rain. Weird. So, who wants to hike in? Snowshoes anyone?


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## milo (Apr 21, 2004)

it is true, the road gets horrible!!!!!... i spent an extra night and 1/2 day sleeping in wet shit, under the picnic table....our shuttle guy blew his tranny trying to get us out....the only people moving had chains and had the "pedal to the metal"....our shuttle driver's gal didn't show up to work....next thing you know there was a heli hovering over us.... then, it disappeared up river looking for "the missing kayakers".....a good campfire story!!...can anybody go in sat.....me and my bro are trying to pay for a shuttle(find a shuttle bunny) or a 3rd person right now.....going in sunday too....


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## tpalka (Oct 31, 2003)

Yikes -- that's crazy -- no rain and the road is still soaked. Crossing fingers it dries up soon, I'll be out in the midwest this weekend, skating around Chicago, but wish you fun paddling and wish I could come along... 

tom.


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## kayakingricht (Apr 13, 2004)

*Anyone heading over to bc from Denver?*

I'm thinking about going over to paddle on Saturday. 
Is there anyone going over from Denver? 

If so, can you ring me on 303 249 6599 and we can talk about sharing the driving and paddling together.

also
Is it a good idea to head over friday night camp and start the run in the morning?
Does anyone know how long it takes to drive over from Denver?

Rich


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## milo (Apr 21, 2004)

sic nik, i cannot reach you by phone...we will be at the put-in at 8:30ish...we will be running the shuttle in the early am.... group of three so far...3 for sunday as well....


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## Mainer in CO (Apr 30, 2004)

If the water levels are good for a first timer Sunday or Monday I would be down to go. I would love a good guide and crew. I live in Salida, my name is Phil. Any beta on the logistics would also help...hike in, poison oak, etc.


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## milo (Apr 21, 2004)

to the Dunbar Hardy crew,.....sorry to only leave one "sports beverage" for the 3 of you at the camp...some climber types must have found my stash......did you like the level the next day...1460cfs?? did you camp at the "first ferry(aka kayaker-camp)"? how about that IVY?....beautiful wasn't it??!!??..
Sick Nik,....how'd it go in there for the "heavy hitters"?...be cool to that shoulder.....


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## Schizzle (Mar 26, 2004)

Milo, how'd things go. I want to hear about the weekend. When the sleeping giant wakes up, is she grumpy?


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## milo (Apr 21, 2004)

*"meow"-the sound an offline boater makes!!!*

meow(she was AWAKE!)...MEOW(no swims allowed ".")... meow(X-factor)....me...ow...meow...me...ow(increased potential for hole ridin')....meooooooow(some drops filled in nicely, others got "tricky").....mmmmeow(some funky boils in crucial spots)....meoowwww(overall, a great level!).....meowpprrrpprrr(took some very hard hits to head-2, shoulder-1, but didn't loose paddle or teeth!)........MEOW(my crew was solid!)....meow(2 blood types donated during 'swHELL'portage)......pprrpprrpprrpprr(found my lost s-6 bulkhead jammy!).....MEOWMEOWMEOOOOOW(going in again late in the week or weekend if it is still going.....)meomeomeow(wanna have an "on" day next time)........mmmmmmeow(a good mental and physical challenge)........meow(creeker 138, keep in touch about next weekend!!)meowmeowmeowmeooooow(excuse our behavior at the takeout, we like to laugh and talk shit!!!!......*****ALERT****1840CFS****CHUNDERFEST***TICKETS ON SALE NOW******HURRY UP AND GET YOURS SOON!!!!********


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## el gordo (Oct 10, 2003)

Captain Black Jack Milo,

Good to see you got out OK, hope the beer was cold, and it wasn't too dark at the take-out. I should've stayed after this weekend. I can't believe it's at 1840 now! 

We're still crackin' up about Steve's "Texas" flag and his love for Gorge W. What a hoot! You two guys are characters! Daytime soap: "Boofs of our Lives".

Thanks everything and see you later,
Gordo


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## ski_kayak365 (Dec 7, 2003)

Milo

Thanks for helping us set up a great shuttle. I'm sorry we missed meeting, but glad to here that ur head/shoulder isn't beat up too bad. Gunny deffenity had great play at that level. sad to see it going back down. perhaps we'll meet again.

josh


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## Dunbar (Mar 17, 2004)

*black canyon - thanks*

milo - 
thanks for the 'support' after the long portage. we wound up camping at the cave camp. had big fire, hung out in the warm night full of stars. a little sore the next morning, but we got 'er done. also want to thank nick for shuttle and snacks at the take out. he earned his karma points. truly a special and powerful place! respect it! peace.


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## waynechorter (Oct 10, 2003)

Milo, thanks for the beer that was a nice offering. Unfortunately, try as we did, were unable to open the sacred ale. The all knowing bottle mocked us and called us sissies for portaging all the big stuff. "Only those with large cajones who have no plans of dying from old age may drink me" it said. So let it be known to all the buzzards who think their a man, a sacred ale awaits you in the depths of the mighty black if your worthy.

The heavy hitting turned tail tucking Hardy Dunbar Crew. 
That shit was big!


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## milo (Apr 21, 2004)

to the "heavy hitters" turned.... "smart guys", the place will help you figure out who you really are......tight, twisting, beautiful drops SURROUNDED by drains, sieves, WALLS and rock-bridges....all tucked inside a nearly inescapable nature fortress...things can get real messy in a real hurry.....the place never gets boring....regardless of the number of journeys....hope you guys got some good photos in there.....*****ALERT***** to let all you BUZZARDS know......i drank a beer with my buddy last night at the Eldo...he said, he drank the "lone beer" the next day.....the same day you left it behind with the words written on it!!!!heheh hah h he h ahhah....I am suprised that you did not chew a hole in the bottom of the bottle....you where partially cave-man'n-out weren't you ??!?!?!? he deserves the [email protected]&king beer!!! he has "stepped up"(READ: has sack!!!) more than anybody I know in there...and been right behind me on at least 10 runs......we got a good laugh out of it!!!******SICKO-ALERT****** little Conner Finney, aged 17, occupation: highschool punk.... paddled, portaged and hiked the Chukar Trail all in a DAY!!!! my boys said he held his own on the big portage...only slowed down going up CHUKAR......CONGRATS to him.... that shit is 25 and older terrain....STATISTICS HAVE SHOWN THIS TO BE TRUE....My name is Milo Wynne, and i approve this message....


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## bigboater (Dec 10, 2003)

Does anyone have a forecast for the phlows this weekend. Will it stay above 600 or are they going to turn it back down to 400 or so. It looks like they are waisting not time shutting the water off. Thanks, Matt


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## milo (Apr 21, 2004)

If the flows stay above 530cfs, the rapids still go, even the waterfall(must do the center-left slot-slide-instaboof)....things slow down a bit but the dangers are super visible!!!! 
last season i threw down in my S-6 at the meager flow of "420 dude"...drops above the portage were "ok", but the waterfall was a supersieve!!! portaged thru the mess on river left-{1 hour}(no rope to use on the tree, river right, bummer).... i then hiked up SOB(with my boat as a sombrero) to meet with some gals to go climbing the next morning.... so, i did not see the drops below the portage....3 weeks ago, i went in at 480cfs, the drops above the portage zone were "nifty" and i got to experience several drops below the portage... got the RODNEY KING EXPERIENCE as well....so, i'd say the paddle is worth it at flows between 550-1100cfs...beyond 1,100ish i'd feel good only with my bros! you may need them to help you!! only your best bros would bust a move to make sure you didn't disappear(gulp)......as you can see, the flow is dropping off...i'll go in again if they are stay above 550cfs(anybody want in?)....otherwise, i will wait until they hit 300-ish cfs and.............attempt another innertube run(anyone in?).....i figured on 3 days, self supported, large tubes(heavy duty recommended), with a bill's bag(large) strapped into the center hole....this protects "slim Jim and the twins"( i rode on my stomach on our first attempt) and puts shoulder straps at hand for quick and easy portages!!! of course there will be some difficult sections and many extra portages......we only had one hand paddle each and this made us go in circles more than anything!!! i'd never tubed before our first try.....just in case you were wondering... we ran everything up to DAYWRECKER, and i can say that it was very exciting!!!!my non boating buddy had one of the sickest splats i've ever seen....the whole time yellin', "i'm splattin' it!.... i'm splattin' it".....we came upon DAYWRECKER(with 2 tubes between the 3 of us), i forgot to tell you that my tube popped when i first jumped on it at the put-in! so i took off after my bros with just my Bill's Bag!!we did the old 3 person pyramid thing for a bit until my bro gave up his tube... he took off on foot(caveman style)...........at DAYWRECKER, we found kids clothes in the river, backpacks(wife beaters and wranglers and medications), paper plates, a K-MART style rafting oars in the left side of the drop, kid's pfd in a log-rock strainer, cooler floatin in an eddy.....a rafting explosion!!!!...we did a body search and regretfully had to retreat to the put-in to call 911... which we did....the rangers looked into the permit box and saw that 3 "innertubists" had put on....all hell broke loose... we'd started drinkin' whiskey at DAYWRECKER and had some herbal remedies to prepare us for the epic retreat....the BOYS wanted to talk to us in person, assuming we were kayakers(they never asked)... we feared them more than the Black Canyon at this point so we split!! they kept callin for info and the like....we drove to the north rim to let my non-boater buddy see what he'd missed out on(a funny smell came out of his pants)...and my ranger buddy said 3 innertubers were missing, presummed dead....they had called our crested butte emergency number and the rumors started!!! I told him that the innertubers were "ok" and he asked if i'd talked to them....i said "they are right over there" and that i was the 3rd... he gave me a ration of "fecal matter"(that's shit for you nonscience folk) and we told him more details... someboby "thought" they'd put on the GUNNY GORGE!!!! and floated willy-nilly into DAYWRECKER....we'd been seen puttin' on with wifebeaters,straw hats, overalls and false teeth(we wanted to go "looking authentic")..... i never heard what happened....we'd collected the stove and gas bottles and stashed them for future use, the rest of the mess we put in a big pile for the rangers to come get.....the ranger agreed to come meet us at river level when we attempted it again....he's cool... wants to learn how to kayak....my name is Milo Wynne and i do not approve this message!...


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