# Aire Force IK. Who has it? Is it for me?



## BatGrrrl (Oct 11, 2018)

I am a former hardshell boater. My last boat (12 years ago) was a WaveSport Diesel. I loved that boat and took it down the Colorado. I would like to get back into boating but feel I should transition to an IK for the increased safety and improved self-rescue capacity.




My complaint with the IK's I've demoed so far (NRS Maverik and AIRE Tributary) is the lack of maneuverability compared to a hardshell. I would be a day-tripper only unless with raft support. My goal is to do the Colorado again in an IK. The Aire Force seems to fit the bill. I would appreciate any advice. Also, is there anyone in the Southwest who has this boat? I have been unable to locate a dealer that has one to demo or even look at. Thanks for the help!


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## formerflatlander (Aug 8, 2013)

Picked up one used earlier this year, after paddling a tomcat solo for 3 years. Huge difference in handling. Very little storage. Everything, including k pump gets strapped over back inflation chamber/seat. And a very wet ride. I pretty much wear neoprene bottoms unless its very warm. I dont have any hardshell experience besides a few courses, so cant comment on difference there. If you're ever in the canon city, colorado area, you're welcome to paddle mine and give it a try. I ended up finding one with the foam floor, so not as easy to transport as the inflatable floor.


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## BatGrrrl (Oct 11, 2018)

Thanks for the intel! Do you partially inflate the front/back flotation so you can carry a bit of gear (Pump, lunch, throwbag?). Can the flotation be removed? Do you have the new or the old design? Do you use this as your primary boat? What length paddle do you use?


Thanks for the offer to test drive - if I'm in the area I will take you up on it!
BatGrrrl


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## formerflatlander (Aug 8, 2013)

Probably old design, in part because of the foam floor? Fully inflate everything, but back rest moderate a little for fit. All gear goes on back seat/chamber with 4 d rings. Not really gonna carry much. Primary boat til i see if i can get my roll down with a used pyrhana. Usig a 220 cm paddle, but curious how a 210 would work. Guy who sold it to me included a 230 cm, but unless someone was over 6', i wouldnt go that lenghth. I'm 5'10" and a little over 200#. So a little over recommended weight.


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## BatGrrrl (Oct 11, 2018)

Ok. I appreciate the info about the paddle, too. The manufacturer told me 220 for my height (5'8") but I'm inclined to go to 210cm as I paddle vertically and not horizontally.


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## formerflatlander (Aug 8, 2013)

Checked the serial number. Mine is a 98. So its held up well. I would expect improvements in the meantime, and they no longer have the foam floor. Offer stands if you're in the area. I kept my tomcat because of its ability to haul gear and being more newb friendly. Stability is slightly better than my pyrhana if that helps.


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## BatGrrrl (Oct 11, 2018)

Thank you much!
Keep the boat side down!
BG


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## cayo 2 (Apr 20, 2007)

A '98 would be one of the earliest models.They have changed the design to make it more stable.I think this,basically widening,probably makes it slightly less manueverable,.I have an original xl and hard shell creek boating ,with lousy roll,experience.I also paddled a Lynx for years.The force handles extremely well for a ducky. It is more fun for play,can catch micro eddies on steep creeks,and is faster than other ducks.The negatives ,much less forgiving,a little harder to reenter,and very little storage..One of those yellow triangular dry bags with grommets works well on back deck for small.items.They made a model with a seat and no back flotation so you could put a mid to fairly large size drybag there.It might have been called a "force expedition"

I used a 202 for awhile, thinking it was easier for playing ,but I think a 210-215 is better for bracing. an tall so maybe not right for you.


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## formerflatlander (Aug 8, 2013)

Definitely an interesting boat. I ran with a group in hardshells and had no problems keeping up. Fast for an inflatable. And i did reenter in river after a getting jammed on a rock. I run my thigh straps fairly tight. Straighten my legs and come off easily enough but still get control and lock in dropping into a hole. There's some vids on YouTube and even a few with somebody rolling back up. The only other negative i see is its always a wet ride. I wear neoprene bottoms 90% of the trips i run with it. The guy i bought it from always wore a drysuit. I may be transitioning to hardshells but its a good backup plan and will keep in class 3 water til i get my roll dowm.


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## rtsideup (Mar 29, 2009)

This what you're looking for?
https://westslope.craigslist.org/boa/d/raftframeinflatable-kayakammo/6720419577.html


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## k2andcannoli (Feb 28, 2012)

The ThrillSeeker would give you more versatility without sacrificing much performance.

ThrillSeekers | Custom Inflatables, Inc.


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## 76763 (Jul 16, 2018)

This might be heresy on this forum, but have you considered a packraft? They aren't the fastest watercraft, but fast enough (I've done 42 miles in a day without great effort), easy to portage and transport. One of the biggest draws, however, is that the good ones have a T Zipp zipper at the rear of the boat, which is water and airtight. It allows you to store an enormous anout of gear _inside_ the raft's tubes. Yes, you have to deflate the raft at night to access it, but during the day it's completely protected and really adds to stability, your gear is basically just above the water line. Fwiw, I've done 3 overnights this year, it really works. I keep a small dry bag clipped in the bow as my day bag. Just an idea, good luck on your search.
-Tom


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

Tom Pierce said:


> This might be heresy on this forum, but have you considered a packraft? They aren't the fastest watercraft, but fast enough (I've done 42 miles in a day without great effort), easy to portage and transport. One of the biggest draws, however, is that the good ones have a T Zipp zipper at the rear of the boat, which is water and airtight. It allows you to store an enormous anout of gear _inside_ the raft's tubes. Yes, you have to deflate the raft at night to access it, but during the day it's completely protected and really adds to stability, your gear is basically just above the water line. Fwiw, I've done 3 overnights this year, it really works. I keep a small dry bag clipped in the bow as my day bag. Just an idea, good luck on your search.
> -Tom


I think that's a pretty fair suggestion when someone is considering an IK. I'm intrigued...mostly because it would be far easier to hike in a packraft than a hardshell!

I think the OP's question may have more to do with on-water performance, particularly after they've come from a hardshell...any thoughts there?


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## T.O.Mac (Jun 6, 2015)

I know there are some folks who have run the Grand in the alpacka packrafts. 

I am not that solid of a packrafter as of yet, the performance of mine (with Gunny Gorge and Plateau Creek being more my skill set) has been faster and more maneuverable than a similar IK. I find, however, that at times they might be a little to quick in their handling as they ride more "over" the water than "in" it when they are unloaded. 

I love mine, and would certainly suggest that you check out the Alpacka "Alpackalypse" model if you want performance that will carve more like a hardshell and somewhat less like a ducky.

Thomas


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## 76763 (Jul 16, 2018)

I can't comment on the packraft vs. hardshell issue, I've only done sit-on-top kayak stuff. Based on what I've heard there's just no way a packraft will do better than a hardshell in WW performance. But a packraft is lighter and deflatable, thus easier to portage and transport. But a packraft vs an IK? I don't know for sure, but I'd bet it's a much closer comparison from a performance standpoint. When I've seen loaded IKs they look less stable in WW than a packraft with gear stored internally, but that's just speculation on my part. 

-Tom


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## slickhorn (Dec 15, 2005)

Good discussion here. I'll jump in, having experience in lots of these different boats. 

Let's be clear though. No inflatable boat is going to boat like a hardshell. No inflatable boat has hard chines or any secondary stability. No one is hitting combat rolls in the gnar in any inflatable. Sure, I've seen people roll a Force, a packraft, a Lynx, and a Stiletto in a pool, but that's not happening on the river. 

Of all these boats being discussed, the Force is my least favorite. It is a fun III play boat, but it's also a swim machine. Too little rocker to surf well. Too low volume to haul gear. I don't personally know anyone who uses the Force as their go-to boat for IV or harder water, though some Buzzards claim to.

I really like the Lynx or Outfitter for gear hauling. Self-support week-long trips are no problem, but some ww performance is sacrificed. But the Cali V IKers have mostly all switched to the Outfitter. Big tubes, real stable.

My alpacka Yukon Yak is one my favorite boats, but again, not that many folks are choosing one as their go-to for front country gnar. I love it on my sailboat as a tender, stashed in my raft on family float trips for side creeks or surfing, and for hike in anything. But it is an expensive and fragile boat that will suffer more than other boats under similar use. It's a specialty tool, a lot like a Force in that regard.

If I want a high-performance inflatable to paddle, I still prefer the Stiletto. flat hull and foam floor carves eddies better than anything else, can take anything you have the sack to run, but doesn't handle a multiday gear load too well. 

If your baseline for an inflatable is that it be as maneuverable as a hard shell, that might not be achievable.


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## JIMM (Nov 3, 2009)

*IKs*

I was fortunate enough to get a Sevylor SK100DS on Amazon a few yrs back at a bargain price and I have never regretted it. I was off hardshell boating for some time after that for health reasons and this boat did almost every thing my hard boat did in up to cl3/3+ stuff except surf bigger waves where carving was required. It caught eddies with ease and tackled big water like a champ.

I also got a solo Tomcat 2 yrs ago for a little more cargo capacity, and for tackling harder water I was unfamiliar with. This combo has served me fairly well. I just miss the big wave surfing I could do in my old hardshell.


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## Randaddy (Jun 8, 2007)

The Force is the best performance IK on the market. If you have a solid brace and are an experienced kayaker it should feel stable - but not like a mini raft, like most ducks. Also, it takes on almost no water because of the float bags. It surfaces in the foam way better than Sotar and Thrill Seeker boats. I've owned the past 3 models and the current size/shape/design is amazing. Get one - you'll have it forever!


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## mikesee (Aug 4, 2012)

slickhorn said:


> No one is hitting combat rolls in the gnar in any inflatable.



Bzzzzt, try again.


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## BatGrrrl (Oct 11, 2018)

Sounds like a great idea. I am a day-use boater and am looking for play-ability in an IK.
Thanks,
BG


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## BatGrrrl (Oct 11, 2018)

Can the flotation be removed if need be? Can the flotation be underinflated so I can store a pump or a lunch, etc between the flotation and the nose/tail covers? Which portable pump would you recommend? Is a drysuit essential?Thanks! BG


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## CB Rob (Feb 13, 2010)

I have an AF 1 IK, have not used it in years. My wife is a non boater and would have been much better off with a conventional IK.


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## iSki (Oct 11, 2005)

*Get the Custom inflatables*

Big +1 for the thrillseeker from custom inflatables, Custom Inflatables, Inc. | Ready to give you the ride of your life!. 



I hardshelled for 20+ years and the thrill seeker is the closest thing i have found to a hardshell. The continuous rocker allows the boat to surf like a dream and i can catch waves that my friends in other boats can not. It ferries very well and the rocker on the boat skips across holes and it can run bigger water.


I've paddled all of the boats you are thinking about. Most are like small rafts. If i had a 2 boat quiver my 2nd boat would be an Aire lynx for high water runs. 



I found the force to have a higher center of gravity which made it unstable and the outfitting/float bags are a little strange and make carrying day trip gear awkward. It also does not drain as fast which effects maneuverability in a rapid. it's not a bad boat, but i found better. 



Go with the thrillseeker and you will not be disappointed!


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## Shortblade (May 23, 2016)

*hard boat*

Have you tried an oc1 like an octane 85 or 91 ? If you are in the southeast..There are LOTS Or even a torrent I am sure the maneuverability may be more suitable for you.


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## Favre (Nov 17, 2010)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohySsS0qWzs


While SlickHorn is mostly correct that very few paddlers can surf and roll it, here is some video of the Force IK in action, with combat rolls and surfing in class 3 whitewater. This video was shot fifteen years ago.



-Micah


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

That's awesome. So not ducky-like!


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## slickhorn (Dec 15, 2005)

Favre said:


> While SlickHorn is mostly correct that very few paddlers can surf and roll it, here is some video of the Force IK in action, with combat rolls and surfing in class 3 whitewater. This video was shot fifteen years ago.
> 
> -Micah


That is a great video Micah! And a skilled paddler.

At the risk of being a contrarian, I'm gonna argue that "combat roll" requires a little more than rolling up in easy safe swimmable water. I too have seen a handful of folks perform rolls like this, often aided by the hydraulic that flipped them in the first place, and usually in the tail waves of III or easier water. 

To roll any inflatable boat, you have to hip-snap 10"-14" of tube. I have never seen it in IV or V water. I've never seen it after landing a ledge and flipping. I've never seen an inflatable paddler flip in the middle of long complicated rapid and re-right the boat in IV or hard water. I've never seen an inflatable paddler windowshade and chunder in a hole for minutes before flushing and rolling. 

Maybe I'm splitting hairs here, but I just strongly disagree with the idea that the average paddler can hit a reliable roll in any inflatable in continuous, difficult water. Which is what a combat roll is. If you need a combat roll in class III you are still a beginner aren't you?

We all know lots of club boaters who can roll in the pool, or even an eddy, but cannot roll in current, or carp their way out of a long hole ride.

I just don't see how endorsing inflatables as combat rollable is doing any service to folks considering boat choices. 

It's just plain rare, like top 2% of inflatable paddlers rare. 

Unless we all agree Mikesee is a baseline average boater? That ego though...surely he earned it right? :roll:


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## iSki (Oct 11, 2005)

*A token of my extreme*

Does anyone know where to get a better quality copy of this video, A Token of My Extreme? Very cool footage of some steep creeking in duckies!


https://youtu.be/NCjKlm4x4rs


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## mikesee (Aug 4, 2012)

slickhorn said:


> Unless we all agree Mikesee is a baseline average boater? That ego though...surely he earned it right? :roll:


You made a definitive statement. I quoted it so that it would be clear exactly what I was responding to. And then I corrected it.

Now you're prevaricating and qualifying and, best of all, calling names on the internet. Classy.

I stand by my statement.


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## JIMM (Nov 3, 2009)

*IK*

Wasn't there an IK shaped like a hardshell called the something Sally from a company in NZ many yrs back? If I remember right, the promo vid. showed it being rolled in pretty hard water, but I may be wrong.It never did become popular as far as I can tell.


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## JIMM (Nov 3, 2009)

https://youtu.be/1wAb9xvE_fg

I found the link. I guess its just another "hardshell" but made of rubber. So probably doesn't fit the OPs requirement...


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## cayo 2 (Apr 20, 2007)

Yeah that boat was sweet (and the paddler) but it is pretty hard for a super expensive boat that you can't demo unless you go to NZ to catch on..Innova made one that was cheaper and more accessible ,but it seems more like a decked Safari than an IK shaped like an actual hardshell. tI think Grabner also made a decked IK..

I think Slickhorn is mostly right,very few people are combat rolling IKs in difficult water consistently .Packrafts seem more capable.Hell, rolling an IK in flatwater even with a decent hard shell pool roll is pretty damn difficult.I always felt having a strong,practiced,efficient,reentry technique was your roll ,in advanced duckying.I used to use my Force as my go to boat on IV/IV+ creeks and play runs.Yes you do flip or swim more than a Lynx for sure.I considered a super fast efficient self rescue/reentry more like a roll than a swim.
The newer models have more rocker and width.The old one with little rocker boofed better ,was the fast duck,and actually surfed fine with the low rocker great for enders,yeah pretty old school but fun.Where i feel it is way less forgiving/ "a swim machine" was on runs with squirrely laterals or if you penciled into a hole at the base of pourover.You better hit anything big with good angles..


Oh ,how easy is it to reenter a packrat in say solid 3 or harder rapids?Is the cockpit comparable in space to a ducky?Are the tubes bigger than most ducks?If it is decked can you reenter or does decking block part of the cockpit? Is your ass hitting rocks in mank?Durabiity,pretty tough but needs periodic repairs?......thanx


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## jerseyjeff (Apr 16, 2016)

I have a force xl (serial number ending 99) and it gets out a lot, 10-15 times a season, I am 6'2" 225 before gear. It is wicked fast because of its lack of rocker, and turns pretty well, good thigh straps are mandatory in the boat. There is NO storage, and then best solution I came up with is running a sea kayak deck bag over the back bag, but, that can mess a bit with the center of gravity. It is a great boat for lower volume stuff, and I can be out of it running downstream or upstream with a throwbag in a flash, but, it also really does not like big confused water, and gets knocked around by waves a bit. I just recently found an old expedition force, which is the XL without the front and rear bags, with footpegs and a cheetah chair, and I am hoping that will be my last IK. force performance and storage. I love it, but it is not for everyone, I run it in up to IV lower volume steeper stuff, and it is a good fit for me.


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## slickhorn (Dec 15, 2005)

cayo 2 said:


> Oh ,how easy is it to reenter a packrat in say solid 3 or harder rapids?Is the cockpit comparable in space to a ducky?Are the tubes bigger than most ducks?If it is decked can you reenter or does decking block part of the cockpit? Is your ass hitting rocks in mank?Durabiity,pretty tough but needs periodic repairs?......thanx


Re-entering my alpacka is not any tougher than climbing back into a lynx. it might have some water in it, but it paddles like any IK that is swamped from a big feature. Slugish, but easy to navigate into an eddy.

I think tube diameter is similar to a lynx. I have the sprayskirt/ww cockpit setup and it is not difficult to get out of when flipping, nor does it encumber re-entry. bow weight is critical though.


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