# To Dry ice or not



## B4otter (Apr 20, 2009)

Unless you buy a bunch - like 20# or more - it's likely the dry ice will be gone by the time you get to Sand Wash, certainly the first or second time you open the cooler if not... It doesn't play well w/fruit and veggies, so if you use as you've explained - which may preserve your block ice for the first day or two - keep them from direct contact with the paper you've wrapped the dry ice in... honestly, for what you describe, I'd just pack it well (after a bag of cube ice for "sacrificial cooling" in the cooler overnight beforehand) using the best quality block you can find and then not open the cooler until you absolutely have to. And then only in the early morning, when it's coolest, and transfer the day's food to your other trip coolers (if any). If you freeze everything you can and it's a decent roto-molded cooler, you should still have ice at trip's end provided you exercise sound cooler management (cover with wet towel or cooler cover of some kind, keep out of sun as much as possible, and only open when you have to and always under shade). Knowing where everything is will help, as you lose ice run an ensolite pad on top to trap cool underneath - space that needs to be cooled will burn ice in the last few days, so try to create a "cool zone" and then a "not as cool zone" on top.

The science on draining vs. not draining seems to be you can keep the overall temp lower by draining but your ice won't last as long. I've tried both and agree. When I have too much water accumulated to feel comfortable that items will stay dry I go ahead and drain (into a collapsable bucket so the ice melt can be used to cool beverages). That's generally about Day 4 or 5 with my old Canyon 150, which I have had no problem keeping ice in for 8-10 days on Grand trips in the middle of summer. 

Good luck and have fun! It's going to be HOT and low...


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## jonseim (May 27, 2006)

Yeah, it’s going to be low and hot!
We run a towel that’s frequently wet and under a paco that’s under a bimini. I am not about to engage in the drain vs no drain debate, marriages have been lost over such things!
We try and pack food that can stay wet doubly packed and sometimes triply (is that a word).
Was hoping the dry ice would make it to day two or three, guess we’ll see and maybe just do what we’ve done.


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## theusualsuspect (Apr 11, 2014)

I have found dry ice useful for pre chilling a cooler. Few days before load it up, get ice forming on the outside of the cooler and you know the insulation is frozen solid.
On the Rio I think it’s a pain. When it sublimates you’re left with nothing but CO2 and you should vent it if you’re using it unless you want to be sitting on top of a bomb.

Best plan is to find a place that will give you dry ice from shipments each day. Its sort of cost prohibitive otherwise. 

Also, this is a good link on cooler data. Blakely LaCroix | Grand Canyon Private Boaters Association


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## dsrtrat (May 29, 2011)

Pre chill as suggested above, use good block ice and fill any spaces between blocks with cubes. Pay attention on where you place the cooler for transport to the river. IE: don't put it in the bed of a pickup over the exhaust area. Keep it in the shade if in a trailer, use tape to seal the lid after you fill it until the first opening especially if it's exposed to moving air in transport. Beverages in cans will freeze with dry ice and possibly burst and it will also ruin your veggies and fruits. Fruit doesn't need to be refrigerated on a short trip. If you have beverages in your cooler you will be opening it more than necessary, think about another plan for them IE. Drag bag or dedicated cooler without food in it.


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## Michael P (Mar 18, 2009)

I have used it successfully with some caveats. In a 120 qt cooler I put a layer of block ice on the bottom then put dry ice in a small plastic lunch cooler (usually about 10 lbs) seal the lid with duct tape, then cut about an inch slit in the tape at the lid seam to allow it to vent. The lunch cooler will still get very cold, so don't put anything close to it that you do not want frozen.
The dry ice needs to be insulated from the rest of the cooler to slow down its sublimation and keep the whole cooler from getting too cold. Dry ice sublimates at about minus 80 degrees celsius so always handle with gloves.
The benifits are that in normal summer temps I usually get at least a few days before my regular ice starts to melt. An added benifit is that CO2 will fill the cooler (its heavier than air) which displaces O2 which will also slow spoiling.
The better your cooler the more insulated the dry ice should be so if in doubt insulate more, as above your cooler is now full of CO2 and little or no oxygen, don't stick your head in there looking for something and expect to breathe. CO2 can get into some produce, if everything is bagged you probably will not notice. I have had apples that I had loose in the cooler have a slight effervescents that could only have come from the CO2 in the cooler. Not unpleasant but a little weird.
Finally there was a previous comment about sitting on a bomb. CO2 is completely inert and is used in many fire extinguishers. You may be adding to your CO2 footprint but if you consider that you are rowing a raft and not driving you are probably still on the plus side.


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## [email protected] (Jun 1, 2010)

I have used dry ice in the frozen food cooler, than only after the cooler is totally packed with frozen food and Ice. It is the last stop I make on the way to put in. Usually no more than 5 #'s needed, Much more important is to keep cooler in shade and or covered with a wet towel as much as possible. The bigger the block of regular ice is the longer it will last. I prefer a scepter 2 1/2 gallon frozen jug, equals a 20# block. I do not use bagged cube ice other than loose to fill in the cracks. Most of my cubed ice goes in one gallon Ozark thermos jugs. That way my ice melt can be used safely for drinking water and ice cubes for really cold 🥶 for cocktails. The Ozark one gallon jugs I carry are always packed in a cooler that will not have dry ice added. I have on day 8 on the river be able to pour off only 10-12 oz of water from a jug. One of the other great advantages of putting ice in the big double wall thermoses is they eliminate the problem of dead air space in cooler as the Ice melts.

A word of caution, as has been mentioned already veggies, fruit, eggs and etc. do not mix well with dry ice.
Have fun on Deso, I love that stretch of the Green river. I'm leaving Monday myself for a tune up trip on Ruby horsethief before MFS in July.


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## SherpaDave (Dec 28, 2017)

Michael P said:


> Finally there was a previous comment about sitting on a bomb. CO2 is completely inert and is used in many fire extinguishers.


I expect the bomb comment was more related to potential pressure buildup from solid>gas phase change, not combustible gasses. However,I haven’t found that the seals are so good on my Canyon to facilitate a dangerous condition.


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## theusualsuspect (Apr 11, 2014)

SherpaDave said:


> I expect the bomb comment was more related to potential pressure buildup from solid>gas phase change, not combustible gasses. However,I haven’t found that the seals are so good on my Canyon to facilitate a dangerous condition.


Correct. More of a bad memory from stuffing office water cooler jugs full of dry ice and watching them explode in the parking lot. Stories from a younger time in my life. 

I got about 40lbs one afternoon and threw it in my canyon. It froze the whole cooler solid over about a day or so. I vented it because I didn't want to win a Darwin award. 

On a side note, if you have some extra its a great party trick to pull out at camp and make cocktails with.


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## unlucky (Sep 2, 2012)

ive done the dry ice set up before and I am not really a fan. I use a rectangular 3 gallon bucket that I fill with water. I think the scepter 2.5 is genius though. They don't make the buckets I use anymore. I add a quart or so a day so the buckets don't crack (they crack during the 2nd use otherwise) On a really long hot trip where the drive is a full day or more I will bring the buckets of ice in the cooler, with a bit of dry ice and only frozen stuff so that I can super freeze it. The non frozen comes in another cooler and is put into the super frozen cooler the morning of our launch. Keep the ice in the buckets that way there is not much water in the bottom of the cooler. This helps to solve the draining debate. 

A 160 qt cooler has a good volume to surface ratio and I seem to do much better than the guys with 120's. You can place a piece of bubble wrap over the food and that will help keep ice in the cooler for longer. Since a 160 is so tall I use 3 baskets and put the vegetables in those with the bubble wrap underneath.

Really pack the cooler with ice and keep it in the shade. I think a bimini works better than a paco on top. A bimini with the paco on top is even beter I think. A damp towel doesn't hurt, but I do think you can keep it over watered. Most important is to limit the number of times you open the cooler and limiting the duration helps too. I will also stuff the cooler with frozen capri suns and frozen gatorade for the kids - but they don't get it until nearly the end of the trip. We need the cold stuff to stay in the cooler and take up space for as long as possible.

8 days with a 160 is possible but make sure the blocks of ice are big and you have a good ice to food ratio.


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## zbaird (Oct 11, 2003)

Any more, I never dry ice. The pre chill is an often overlooked step that seems to provide about the same extension as a bit of dry slipped in on top of the frozen stuff. also mitigates the risk of burned produce. A sacrificial bag dumped in the day before loading goes a long way and is cheaper than a couple pounds or so of dry. Dump before loading, load and seal. If you have late (past day 6 lets say) meals don't be using it as a day beverage cooler, that will hose you faster than anything. If you put some super cold beers in there to grab only when you open it for the food that's fine. In and out for drinks every few hours and expecting ice at the end of an 8 day summer deso is asking a lot of any cooler.


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## NativeDiver (Jun 7, 2017)

These Tundra Blocks from Artic ice are the only way to go. When they thaw, they do so at about 5F. They will freeze your salad and eggs though. After you buy dry ice twice these pay for themselves. They are also easy to pack in a cooler and stack around. You can also buy 5lb blocks- your choice! Let me know how they work for you.


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## panicman (Apr 7, 2005)

This is how I used my dry ice on our deso trip last year and we launched august 1st. I layed it on some pieces of card board on top of everything in my cooler and under it had frozen jugs of water and food ect. The dry ice was really just used to keep everything frozen solid for the drive out there and maybe the 1st day ish. We drove from arkansas. So I put a layer leaving town and as it dissapated I replensished it as I went through denver and then added some more in vernal before we went to the put in. I was sure to leave the drain plug partially unscrewed to vent it so I did not have a bomb go off with the pressure. But also I had another regular cooler with stuff I did not want to get hard frozen/vegs ect and on launch morning transfered it into the big cooler and left it in the car. By then there wasnt much dry ice left to freeze that stuff just keep evrything real cold.


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## Senor D (May 22, 2018)

I use dry ice in my root molded 160 quart cooler. I start with an old yoga mat that I cut to the size of the bottom of my cooler. I put in 20-30 pounds of dry ice on the mat. I have 5 plastic 1 gallon containers that perfectly fit the bottom of the cooler wall to wall. I freeze them in my chest freezer. They go in next. 
The only downside is everything in the cooler freezes solid. We coordinate as a crew so that I end up packing all the frozen stuff, usually the group meals for the last 3-4 days. Anything that can’t freeze goes in a someone else’s cooler. 
I have been able to serve ice cream on day 4, and still have mostly solid blocks at the end of the 8 day 100 degree Deso trip. 
I also agree that with pre chilling, freezing solid blocks of ice, and proper cooler management, you can get by without it.


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## Jim Bob (May 19, 2020)

Just off Deso for 7 days, it was hot. We had lots of coolers and lots of ice. We pre cooled all coolers and packed food last day to first in 3 coolers. We didn’t open day 5/6 cooler until night 5 and still had frozen food. We had lots of cocktail ice at last camp. No dry ice was used. Just be good about cooler management and you will be fine. Did I mention it was hot?


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

I've found the only tried and true way to ensure ice without a lot of hassle is to take your cooler to your local meat locker after you've layered your meals in the order you want to eat them in, last days on the bottom, first days on the top, ask them to freeze it solid by adding 2-3 inches of water a day. Never had a lot of luck with dry ice..


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## 2tomcat2 (May 27, 2012)

Jim Bob said:


> Just off Deso for 7 days, it was hot. We had lots of coolers and lots of ice. We pre cooled all coolers and packed food last day to first in 3 coolers. We didn’t open day 5/6 cooler until night 5 and still had frozen food. We had lots of cocktail ice at last camp. No dry ice was used. Just be good about cooler management and you will be fine. Did I mention it was hot?


My cooler management includes all of the above excellent suggestions and I'll add....NO ONE opens the food coolers, but me
Separate beverage cooler, have at it!


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## jonseim (May 27, 2006)

Didn't use dry ice, took an extra 75 qt for the gear pile and buddy carried the kitchen box. We froze a 5 gal brownie (Military water jug) and used two of the arctic ice xxl. Food was frozen when it entered from the deep freeze and stayed nice and cold for the 8 days. We put frozen gatorade and other drinks in the 75 and one of the arctic ice in there. We pulled frozen chunks of gatorade out on day 8. I gave out 12 qts of water from the 5 gal frozen brownie at the take out, one to another crew, so very happy. Still had plenty of frozen in it.
Best part was the weather, lots of cloud cover up top, some cooler temps and all was wonderful! Desolation was nice, had a Bald Eagle, the only of the trip, buzzed up river on July 4, pretty patriotic for sure!


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