# Tube II



## Tube1 (Jun 23, 2005)

I want to thank all of the boaters who didn't jump to conclusions about us. We are the "gnar tubers" that you have been talking about. To get the record stright, we ALWAYS use safety equipment and scout more often than not. (We did NOT run rigo without a life jacket, but you're right, we do wear goggles.) We are NOT your Joe-six-pack-sunday-afternoon-tubers. For all of you naysayers, whats your beef? Just because we don't spend big $$$$ on kayaks does not mean that we lack knowledge about whitewater. This is our third season of Whitewater Tubing and the first season doing class V water. So far this season we've hit some great runs and have as a group only suffered one minor injury. Sure we get thrown and have pop back on but this is to tubing as rolling is to kayaking. All we ask is that you keep an open mind and share the river. We appreciate everyone who has been supportive of our efforts...(even if you only support us to see us fail.) Thanks for uderstanding.


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## Full_Tilt (May 3, 2004)

I think its cool that you guys run the big shit, I started tubing the south platte near deckers and were looking at doing waterton this summer, I'm a avid kayaker now, but still wanted to cast my support your way


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## DanOrion (Jun 8, 2004)

Were definitly looking forward to seeing some photos!


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## mvhyde (Feb 3, 2004)

*photos please!*

wear PFD's and helmets...

but cool shite bro... post some pics, maybe Frenchy will create a new photo catagory


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## De la Boot (Apr 21, 2004)

I'm not a tube hater but I still am dumbfounded by 99.9% of the tubers out there with nothing on but a swimsuit. 

I saw you on Boulder Creek and gave you props for wearing all the safety gear, but I still think you would have more fun in a kayak. You can actually control your movement, position, angle etc. Tubing is to kayaking as sleding is to snowboarding. I have a feeling that if you could experience carving into a tight eddie above a big drop, and then eddite pick you way down, then you may opt out of the tube and decide to spend the $$$ that you mention. 

Still, you've got bucket balls. If you do decide to get into a boat, just remember, just because you can run Class V in a tube, doesn't mean you can in a boat. very different story.


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## Fuzzy (May 25, 2005)

you should try Barrel Springs in a tube i bet that would be splashy


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## poudreraft (Sep 21, 2004)

hey - this guy that used to tube the Poudre used a kayak paddle, seemed to help give him momemtum and a bit more control. Just a thought. Be safe!!


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## bkp77 (May 9, 2004)

sorry,dude, i'm not buying it. it is good that you take precautions but it's still a craft that you can't control on the river which i find reckless and stupid. That lack of control puts you in danger and then when the shit hits the fan it's up to the unlucky rafters and kayakers with the real river skills that happen to be nearby to save your ass. I'm not on the river to fish dumbasses out of places they shouldn't be. I'm there to enjoy myself, the river and friends. 

The other issue i have with your lack of control is that you create a real moving hazard to other boaters. I've been sent into trees and rocks because dumbfuck tubers drifted into where my oar stroke is giving me the option to either deck the tuber with my oar(very tempting) or take my lumps on the rock,tree or bank. 

you aren't convincing me of anything with your pfd and throwbags. bfd. get a craft that takes some skill and where you are making the decisions til then you are a hazard to everyone else on the river.


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## Jiberish (Oct 20, 2003)

I think your better off with a pfd, and helmet a lone....

Ben


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## FlyingFluke (Jun 13, 2005)

Can you tell us when and where you'll be tubing next? I want to come watch.


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## mvhyde (Feb 3, 2004)

*Maybe you guys should do Lime Creek*

Adrenalin Falls is doable in a tube...do not ask me how I know this

Late July/Early August would be a good time


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## Tube1 (Jun 23, 2005)

Thanks for all of your support. As for bkp77's message, and the part about skill...I would love to see you try what we do, it is harder than it looks. I make no claim that most tubers are nothing more than driftwood, but I would encourage those of you who view tubing as a "non-skill" to try it. You may be surprised. I grew up on canoes and kayaks doing east coast runs like the New, Gauley. James and such. Its not that I don't like the traditional crafts, I just really like what the tube has to offer. It is a whole different skill set with a completely different feel to it. Some of you are rafters, some of you is canoes, we just perfer the tube. To answer some questions, we tried using paddles (both kayak and hand) but they hinder rotation and tube grab-ability. Tommorow (sat.) I'll be up on the Lower North Saint Vrain and then Boulder/Upper Boulder Sunday morning. We have plans for Bailey once the water comes up and whatever else catches our eye. We're always looking to make friends on the river and hit some white with whoever. I'll work on getting pictures to show. Mvhyde, Adrenalin Falls...it does look fun.


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## bkp77 (May 9, 2004)

Tube1 said:


> we just perfer the tube.


Each his own... even the military has a don't ask, don't tell policy now.

you sound like a decent person but who just doesn't respect rivers quite enough yet. I hope you and your buddies learn this respect the easy way and not hard way at some point. 

we aren't going to change each others views so... good luck,be safe and stay the fuck out of my way.  

and ,unfortunatly,SYOTR.


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## 3765 (Jun 26, 2005)

bkp77 said:


> sorry,dude, i'm not buying it. it is good that you take precautions but it's still a craft that you can't control on the river which i find reckless and stupid. That lack of control puts you in danger and then when the shit hits the fan it's up to the unlucky rafters and kayakers with the real river skills that happen to be nearby to save your ass. I'm not on the river to fish dumbasses out of places they shouldn't be. I'm there to enjoy myself, the river and friends.
> 
> The other issue i have with your lack of control is that you create a real moving hazard to other boaters. I've been sent into trees and rocks because dumbfuck tubers drifted into where my oar stroke is giving me the option to either deck the tuber with my oar(very tempting) or take my lumps on the rock,tree or bank.
> 
> you aren't convincing me of anything with your pfd and throwbags. bfd. get a craft that takes some skill and where you are making the decisions til then you are a hazard to everyone else on the river.


Hey, guess what? It is a craft we can control. Maybe we don't use paddles, but the group that has been mentioned is made up of swimmers, and we've gotten really good at being able to control the tubes. Maybe it's not as efficient as a paddle, but guess what, it still takes skill. And the reason we use safety gear is so we don't have to be rescued by rafters and kayakers. If any of you fall out, you and we are wearing the exact same gear.
And as to tubers drifting into your area, it's the same rule as on a ski slope. You're supposed to watch out for those in front of you, but if you're smart, you're also watching what's happening behind you. Sometimes people get out of control. I've seen it happen to rafts, to kayaks, to canoes, to tubers. It's something that just happens. Yes, some of the tubers are rude, but some of the kayaks I've encountered are rude as well. Just because we're not using the same equipment you are doesn't mean you have to put everyone down.


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## 3765 (Jun 26, 2005)

bkp77 said:


> Tube1 said:
> 
> 
> > we just perfer the tube.
> ...


How are we not respecting the river quite enough? Most of us (us being the group who y'all have been talking about) don't ever go alone, and usually it's a group of at least four people. We don't do rivers and runs that are above our skill level, and we scout the harder stuff before we run it. It's basically what a rafter or kayaker would do; we just have a different method of getting down the river. And none of us do a run we don't feel comfortable doing. We have a pretty good sense of what we can and can't do, and we listen to our intuition if it's saying, "Maybe not this run." As a group, we've had more injuries playing frisbee, longboard, running, and mountain climbing than on the river.


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## DanOrion (Jun 8, 2004)

Can you blast out of a nasty hole in a tube, or do you just go around and around and around?


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## 3765 (Jun 26, 2005)

*holes*

Well, sometimes. I tend to just fall out, especially in Boulder Creek, but a lot of people can surf them, or get out just fine. It's not as easy as with a kayak or anything, but it's still possible...just with more of a chance of going swimming!


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## Tube1 (Jun 23, 2005)

We tend to view holes as something to get into, have fun in, then get out. The nature of our sport is to stick the holes, not blast through. As far as abilities go, we have varying skill levels within our group. Not everyone does the serious water. The bigger part the group is working on the class IV drops with only a couple of us running the big stuff. And not everyone wants to run anything more serious than what they are doing currently. I say, do what your comfortable with.


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## huckit21 (Nov 4, 2003)

I'm with, bkp77. I just don't think it is a smart idea. I've tubed before and for the most part, control is available but only in slower current. Creeks should not be run in tubes. it would be impossible to: avoid all the obsticles, stay on line, and stop yourself if anything went wrong or one simply needed to stop. Catching eddies is the most important thing when creeking, and big eddies aren't always an option. Most creeks offer small, sometimes turbulent eddies and there is no way a tuber can catch micro eddies. 

I'm glad to hear that you all made it safe down black rocks, and i have no idea how the trip went. But ask yourself: how many times did you fall off the tube? even if you were able to get right back on, how many times did you end up swimming, even if it was just for a second? As we have seen, far too frequently this season, a second is all it takes, no matter who is on the shore running safety. As tubers, your odds for accidents increases dramatically and unfortunately, it is only a matter of time. Good luck.


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## Tiggy (May 17, 2004)

I usually C-1, but at home definitely prefer da' Tubes


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## ryguy (Jan 19, 2005)

how was your ride down the butress?? Maybe it was not U guys, but I am sure there are not too many of YOU.


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## Tube1 (Jun 23, 2005)

To huckit21, thanks for your imput. As far as my run on Black Rock, I swam zero times. All I can say is that you are grasping at straws here. You can only critique something that you have knowledge about. Concerning the safety, why do you say our odds increase dramatically? Who has more injuries/deaths? You hear about far more kayaking deaths than tubing. I would actually be interested in seeing that stat if anyone has it? Really, if you have this much doubt, then try it or shut up. I will be more than willing to teach anybody to tube. That way you can understand what you are knocking. You say you've tubed before, but how serious did you take it. I'm sure that the first couple of times you kayaked you had little to no control. I mean really, cyclists say share the road, come on, share the river.
Ryguy. the Upper Boulder was a blast...a workout, but a blast. Which boater were you? The one in the car or the ones I past on the riverbank? The water was better on Sat. but I won't complain about today. I'm the one in the yellow lifejacket if you're wondering.


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## ryguy (Jan 19, 2005)

The guy in the blue truck, was glad to see you guys made it down safe! take care and bounce safe!


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## jmack (Jun 3, 2004)

We saw your run down buttress this morning and I have to say it went alot better than I would have imagined. You definitely have bigger balls than most.

Notwithstanding the size of your balls, I am still dubious of the tubing on Class V idea. Buttress is pushy and fast but not really that technical or dangerous. There are definitely alot of creeks in Colorado that are not nearly so straightforward and forgiving. There are many drops that will most likely kill you if you float into them in a tube and not all of them are obvious and have good eddies above them (the first drop in four falls comes to mind). 

I'm not saying there is anything wrong with tubing, just that its good to keep in mind the inherent limitations of your watercraft.


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## 3765 (Jun 26, 2005)

huckit21 said:


> I'm with, bkp77. I just don't think it is a smart idea. I've tubed before and for the most part, control is available but only in slower current. Creeks should not be run in tubes. it would be impossible to: avoid all the obsticles, stay on line, and stop yourself if anything went wrong or one simply needed to stop. Catching eddies is the most important thing when creeking, and big eddies aren't always an option. Most creeks offer small, sometimes turbulent eddies and there is no way a tuber can catch micro eddies.
> 
> I'm glad to hear that you all made it safe down black rocks, and i have no idea how the trip went. But ask yourself: how many times did you fall off the tube? even if you were able to get right back on, how many times did you end up swimming, even if it was just for a second? As we have seen, far too frequently this season, a second is all it takes, no matter who is on the shore running safety. As tubers, your odds for accidents increases dramatically and unfortunately, it is only a matter of time. Good luck.


First, falling out of the tube is just like rolling over in a kayak. You get back in. If you're not comfortable getting back in, or can't always do it, then you stay off the harder stuff. I know exactly where my personal limitations lie, and one of them is getting back on. I didn't grow up on rivers, and since I'm a swimmer, my instincts lie with swimming. I try to use two hands to get back in tubes, I try to stand up when I fall out, and I try to swim when I need to just lay back. I know all this, and the people I go with know this, and I don't try to run something I know I have the potential to fall out and not be able to get back in. Second, in terms of eddies, since we can't move as quickly, we have to be looking far downstream if we know we're going to have to get out soon, or if we need to be able to hold up for the rest of the group. Thus, we not only have to keep track of what we're running, what's coming right up, but we also have to keep in mind where the possible spots to eddy out are, and to be able to be in a position to be able to. It's not something where we just go in the rapid for the adrenaline rush, but something that does take skill and planning.


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## 3765 (Jun 26, 2005)

jmack said:


> We saw your run down buttress this morning and I have to say it went alot better than I would have imagined. You definitely have bigger balls than most.
> 
> Notwithstanding the size of your balls, I am still dubious of the tubing on Class V idea. Buttress is pushy and fast but not really that technical or dangerous. There are definitely alot of creeks in Colorado that are not nearly so straightforward and forgiving. There are many drops that will most likely kill you if you float into them in a tube and not all of them are obvious and have good eddies above them (the first drop in four falls comes to mind).
> 
> I'm not saying there is anything wrong with tubing, just that its good to keep in mind the inherent limitations of your watercraft.


We do take our craft into consideration. That's what scouting is for. Before something more than a class II or III, it's scouted, and any problem spots are pointed out. Class V rapids are planned out carefully. The first time *tube1* ran Rigor Mortis, he actually talked to the kayakers who were going to run it, and routes were plotted, and what would be done in case the chosen route was missed. You have Plan A, Plan B, Plan C, and all the different combinations that can come of different routes.


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## clevedave (Jun 10, 2005)

*tubers*

you guy f-ing rock!!! Keep up the safe tubing!!


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## jonny water (Oct 28, 2003)

We took some tubes down Boulder Creek a couple of years ago when the water was low. While in the playpark i got in my tube with my ass in the center (sitting on my back) and my feet pushed on the inside of the tube so that it was stretched out, and I was able to get in a whole and throw like 20 ends.....to tell you the truth, it really set me straight on good form for cartwheeling in my boat. I was even trying loops and mystery moves!!! Do you guys play in the holes???


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## milo (Apr 21, 2004)

*....tube'n ain't a crime!!!....*

.....bkp77, chill out hotshot!!!....i am not an avid tuber but tried it once...we put in at east portal....tried to make it to chukar trail....i ran everything above DAYWRECKER...it was a fucking blast and look forward to out next attempt....never laughed so much...we would have kept goin' but we came across a rafting accident...they had no clue that they'd put on for the BLACK CANYON...911 action...we retreated back to the put-in....we went in with 3 tubes and came out with one...my dumpster scored tube is still kicking...i had 1 hard plastic hand paddle which made things tricky...purchased neoprene webbed handies which will increase control...we strapped our bill's bags into the center hole... this provided protection for "slim jim and the twins" and provided shoulder straps for portage purposes as well as camping gear and food and FOSTERS OIL CANS...helmets and pfds were not used(we were looking for the authentic tube'n trip)...drytops, overalls, false teeth and straw hats were the call...warmer foot wear would have been nice(feet were used as rudders!)....next time we will bring an air pump and patch kit....point is...you don't like tubers and or tube'n?... who gives a rat's ass!....the ability to make choices is what separates us from the other animals on this planet....go get sum tubers....interested in a fall run in the HOLE?9702751890


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## cutthroat (Jun 27, 2005)

lilgreenfish said:


> I try to use two hands to get back in tubes, *I try to stand up when I fall out*, and I try to swim when I need to just lay back. I know all this, and the people I go with know this, and I don't try to run something I know I have the potential to fall out and not be able to get back in.


Try to stand up!? One of the first rules of swimming is to never try to stand up in the river until you are very near shore and out of the current. At the least, you will end with with battered shins and knees, and at the worst, you'll get your foot pinned, and your body can end up trapped underwater because of it. 

I used to tube down the Boulder ww park. That was alot o fun and taught what its like to get pounded in a hole, and how to swim with the river, and not against it. Back then I thought rafting was cool, tubing was fun, and kayakers were 30-something dorks. Now that I'm a "30-something kayaking dork", rafting seems so-so, kayking is where its at, canoeing is very impressive, and tubing class IV or V is just plain ridiculous. Funny how perspective can change over time.


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## cutthroat (Jun 27, 2005)

*Stand up?*



lilgreenfish said:


> I try to use two hands to get back in tubes, *I try to stand up when I fall out*, and I try to swim when I need to just lay back. I know all this, and the people I go with know this, and I don't try to run something I know I have the potential to fall out and not be able to get back in.


Try to stand up!? One of the first rules of swimming is to never try to stand up in the river until you are very near shore and out of the current. At the least, you will end with with battered shins and knees, and at the worst, you'll get your foot pinned, and your body can end up trapped underwater because of it. 

I used to tube down the Boulder ww park. That was alot o fun and taught what its like to get pounded in a hole, and how to swim with the river, and not against it. Back then I thought rafting was cool, tubing was fun, and kayakers were 30-something dorks. Now that I'm a "30-something kayaking dork", rafting seems so-so, kayking is where its at, canoeing is very impressive, and tubing class IV or V is just plain ridiculous. Funny how perspective can change over time.


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## 217 (Oct 27, 2003)

amazing.....but what is really impressive is watching twitch and his "friend" Reed put on their water wings and pool noddles to throw huge space godzillas surfing toilet bowl. yeah if Laird can get on a permit to board surf the grand then it seems that anything is possible.....

-aaron


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## 3765 (Jun 26, 2005)

cutthroat said:


> lilgreenfish said:
> 
> 
> > I try to use two hands to get back in tubes, *I try to stand up when I fall out*, and I try to swim when I need to just lay back. I know all this, and the people I go with know this, and I don't try to run something I know I have the potential to fall out and not be able to get back in.
> ...


Yeah, I _know_ you're not supposed to stand up. Hence it was with the other things I do that I shouldn't. I was pointing out that I know my limitations, and know what I can and can't do. My first time ever on a river or a creek, doing more than playing with my dog or wading in the ditch in front of my house, was tubing Boulder Creek last year. However, in all the times I've tried to stand up, I've never been hurt.
And I hope that when I'm older, I never look back at the things I've done and think they're "plain ridiculous". Doing things that are extreme, and quite possibly dangerous, is part of growing up. I don't know about my mom, but I know my dad did some outrageous things when he was younger, and when he looks back, yeah, he does admit that some of the things were stupid, but he also says that he had fun. That's the whole point of life. To have fun. It's boring to always take the safe route, to do what's normal. And if we didn't have people always pushing the limits, we'd still be in the Stone Age, living in caves, talking in grunts, and eating leaves and twigs.


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## 3765 (Jun 26, 2005)

double-a-ron said:


> amazing.....but what is really impressive is watching twitch and his "friend" Reed put on their water wings and pool noddles to throw huge space godzillas surfing toilet bowl. yeah if Laird can get on a permit to board surf the grand then it seems that anything is possible.....
> 
> -aaron


Water wings and noodles? *Awesome!!*


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## The Dude (Jun 28, 2005)

*To Each his own*

Whoever is out on the river taking responsibility for their own actions and aware of the safety issues can do what they like... More power to you!


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## Tube1 (Jun 23, 2005)

Lilgreenfish is new to the river. But she tries and is improving. Her real strength on the river is her heart. If she fails a run, she'll pick herself up and do it again. She knows better than to stand up, we all do. But I am willing to bet that the first time anyone in any craft found themselves swimming they felt some panic. What is so great about the extreme sports is being able to understand your panic, and work to control it. It has a learning curve just like anything else. I just responded to a request on Extreme Tubing? about running some water with other boaters. I will repeat my answer here. I would love to run any water with any boater, kayak, canoe, board, or raft. My goal is make friends on the river, not to alienate us from the rest of the boating community. I am also willing to help anyone learn to tube. To be honest, I feel the WW park in Boulder is the best to learn on. I'm up that way every weekend so just drop me a line if you're interested.


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## 3765 (Jun 26, 2005)

thanks michael, you're such a sweetheart!


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## Tube1 (Jun 23, 2005)

To the Boulder crew. Lets run Sunday morning. All crafts welcome.


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## chopchopturtleboy (Jun 29, 2005)

I got into tubing when I was a Boy Scout. We used to run the Indian River in upstate NY. Jeans and sneakers with pdf's. Dangerous? Probably, because there was no safety. But we never ran it when it was big. Never were any serious injuries, just good fun.

Started tubing the Poudre when my buddies got into kayaking. I couldn't see spending the money on a sport that I wasn't that into, so I bought a tube. It was $12, new. I used to bust my buddies balls, saying I spent $12 to have fun on the river and they spent hundreds on a boat and gear.

My buddies were newbies, so we stuck to the lower Poudre runs, Mish and Filter Plant. Always had a blast, wore a wetsuit, booties and pdf.

Until one day when I got lazy and floated into a pourover hole and got stuck. The cfs had doubled from out last float and I didn't take the river changes into account. Got recirculated 5 or 6 times, inhaled some water, and popped out. Scared the shit out of me, and was my first real lesson in the power of water. Learned what a friendly hole is (I was in one) and that I needed to avoid holes. Did the same run again later that day and made sure to avoid the hole.

My point it that you do have the ability to maneuver a tube. And with a little knowledge you can avoid stupid things. Sure, you have more control in a kayak, but what beginning kayaker hasn't freaked when they first flipped in a rapid? It's the same learning process for tubers and kayakers.

If there were more people like Tube1, there might be more tubers being educated and safe.

Tubers have just as much right to use the river as kayakers or rafters or anyone else. And do stupid things if they so choose.

That quote from Abbey sums it up for me...

"...let them take risks, for godsake, let them get lost, sunburnt, stranded, drowned, eaten by bears, buried alive under avalanches-that is the right and privilege of any free American." -Desert Solitaire


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## uber-tuber (Jun 29, 2005)

*Control*

So, I just wanted to clarify the level of control we extreme tubers have. Everyone who tubes big water with us either is or used to be on the University of Colorado swim team. You will see us kicking and pulling to avoid obstacles, and most importantly (at least to most of you, anyways) kayakers. 

Nobody touches a class IV without weeks of work in the Boulder Creek park, and our rule of thumb is "If you don't feel comfortable, get out and find something you do feel comfortable in."

All we continue to do is ask for a chance, and maybe a kind hello on the river. Take care, all.


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