# Best 3 runs in the state?



## [email protected] (Apr 26, 2006)

There hasn't been enough controversy on this site in a while, so I decided while procrastinating from homework that I would stir some up and maybe risk coming off as more of a douche than Kanye West. 
1) Valliceto: who can argue with this one
2) Black Canyon: This is going to piss a some people off but it is THE only overnighter in colorado and thus the best training for California, has more whitewater than any run in the state, its in a sick as gorge, it runs more days than any (tied with gore?) and the hard work keeps the pussy gapers away.

3) Big South: Would be #2 if it was longer

Alright Fort Collins Dads let me have it.


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## JCKeck1 (Oct 28, 2003)

Please, where's cheeseman?


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## fred norquist (Apr 4, 2007)

1. Crystal gorge, love that place
2. Vallecito
3.Pandoras Box

Never done black canyon


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## raftus (Jul 20, 2005)

1. Union Chutes
2. Fractions
3. Upper C with a 40 mph headwind


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## CGM (Jun 18, 2004)

1. Big South
2. Vallecito
3. high water USB


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## gannon_w (Jun 27, 2006)

1. Golden play park on a tube
2. Filter Plant on a tube
3. Yule creek...on a tube!


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## Schizzle (Mar 26, 2004)

#1 Embudo#2 Encampment#3 WestwaterColorado's finest...


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## Don (Oct 16, 2003)

*Black Canyon*

[email protected]- the Black Canyon below the portage has been run many times. The last time it was run was by Chuck Kern. That's why no one does it any more. Sorry for the bummer FYI.


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## deepsouthpaddler (Apr 14, 2004)

If I could have 3 runs year round right outside my door at prime flows....

1) big south - all around classic
2) obj - primo waterfalls and slides
3) ssv - high speed mank action

I'd also need about 47 creekboats a year if they ran all year.


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## storm11 (Feb 10, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> 2) Black Canyon: This is going to piss a some people off but it is THE only overnighter in colorado


Umm.... what about the Pinos? 

and I really hope Don isn't trying to be serious.... Example A


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## jmack (Jun 3, 2004)

I'll add a vote for Escalante. More good rapids with less junk than just about any other run in CO.


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## [email protected] (Apr 26, 2006)

Ahh, forgot about the pinos, durango has some sick shit but i heard that one is bit manky.

Don, I thought Chuck Kern died in the portage (about halfway down on the left?), we were told by Larson that he didn't know of anyone running it, which surprised me a little bit, either way it is probably the best rapid in there.

Crystal gorge does look sick Fred, haven't made it in there.

Joe, what about the boulder playpark? and yes cheesman is #4 or 5.


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## Schizzle (Mar 26, 2004)

storm11 said:


> and I really hope Don isn't trying to be serious.... Example A


 
I strongly feel like people dropping into the hole should be cleaning their lines. That video link was not inspiring...


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## Shitouta (Apr 17, 2008)

Yeah, what a bunch o gumbies.


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## chrispy (Apr 6, 2004)

m flume


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## CGM (Jun 18, 2004)

[email protected] said:


> and yes cheesman is #4 or 5.


Cheeseman blows


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## Don (Oct 16, 2003)

*The goods*

Just stating that it's not new and others have run it. There is a reason others do not go in there. Chuck was the reason for it. But, he died in 1995. If you are a newer boater and getting after it you might look down and say hey that looks awesome I must be on to something. The same goes for Poudre Falls, yes it's in a Patagonia ad in CRCII, but after Dan's death people in the area decided it was best left alone. Someone may see that picture and think they need to check it out, and jump into the goods (only knowing that it was "good" for one guy).

It's boating and you pick your own lines, have fun and be safe.


"and I really hope Don isn't trying to be serious.... Example A" I stopped watching after the first 2 min. My brace is fine and I'm not sure I could learn anything more from that video. Thank you for your concerns. You should take a lesson for Tony M at 4 Corners, he's really solid and can help you with your form.


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## storm11 (Feb 10, 2006)

storm11 said:


> and I really hope Don isn't trying to be serious.... Example A


Edit: I'm a moron. Didn't read Dan's post correctly. So no, the Clown Posse didn't run the section he's referring to.


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## ACC (Oct 30, 2003)

CGM said:


> Cheeseman blows


Not when you properly set shuttle. By the way, USB sucks.


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## doublet (May 21, 2004)

Don said:


> Just stating that it's not new and others have run it. There is a reason others do not go in there. Chuck was the reason for it. But, he died in 1995.


There are dozens of V+/VI drops between the 18'er and beach camp. I don't think you can really assume that the drops in the pics were the one Chuck died in. (Unless you have way more knowledge of Chuck's accident than I do.)

My 3 faves (in no particular order)

USB (aka Normandy Canyon)
Big South 
Gore (if you think I'm crazy for listing it you should run it at the good flow.)

If Upper Taos Box were in Colorado it would be #1. (If you didn't love UTB, you ran it too low.)

I think Pinos is mediocre but I'd do it again. Vallecito/Pandoras are incredibly sick but they're also kinda short and not in my backyard. Crystal Gorge is scary.


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## Cutch (Nov 4, 2003)

Don, I'm not sure you have been in there recently enough to know which drops those guys ran (the ones in the photos) and where they are. Chuck Kern died in the drops at the top of the portage, just below the waterfall and above cave camp. Not to say that he hadn't run the bottom stuff on another trip... he may have. The drops Christ-ian and tj fired up are the runout drops to the portage, below cave camp and above beach camp. I don't think they have been run, but I would check with Eric Bader and company... the old school Into The Black vid is priceless I hear. Sick that ya'll fired up the runout. 

TJ, last year Conor Flynn, Leif Anderson and myself fired the right side of the very last portage. We ran the top sequence, eddied right and finished our portage that side. That was at 850. Looks like that last pic is from the left side of that portage? aka Great Falls? 

Top 3 in Colorado
1. Big South high water
2. Vallecito high water
3. Gore Canyon high water


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## Cutch (Nov 4, 2003)

USB would kick Cheeseman's ass in a death match. It would be a good fight though.


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## deepsouthpaddler (Apr 14, 2004)

Gotta love the colorado boaters... the only thing better than classic class V... is classic class V at high water!


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## Mut (Dec 2, 2004)

How is the Black canyon the only overnight in Colorado? The Black is only an overnight if you are slow, or make it an overnight so you can hang out in an epic place.

The black is no more of an overnight than the Upper Animas.


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## [email protected] (Apr 26, 2006)

Cutch, that pic is at the bottom on the left and is a very tight line, did you guys run the top 2 drops on the right? and valleceto high=lots of scary ass stories. I need to get into big south higher, maybe that is why I ranked it 3rd.
Tyson I don't think we can call it Normandy canyon (aka war cry canyon) unless your in there 600+, I would love to get in there at those levels next year.
And Cheesman is sick as long as you run it above 400.
Gore is awesome at any water level but the higher the better.


Just because people paddle it in a day doesn't mean that it isn't an overnighter (for the record me and christian ran a day lap on friday before we did a 2 day trip on the weekend). Most people that go in there go for the two day trip, if I lived there I would do one day trips all the time, but the two day trip lets you run more of the big stuff.


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## Cutch (Nov 4, 2003)

Yep, the top right set of the last portage in the M-box. But that was it. We eyed that other stuff in the runout, and Wigston was all enthusiastic and I was like screw that. Apparently I need to take another look. 

Christian's 850 cfs solo of Normandy Canyon gets the Biggest Balls of the Front Range 2009 award. Just sayin.


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## seanlee (Apr 17, 2004)

[email protected] is like the most popular guy on here and i have no clue who he is


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## doublet (May 21, 2004)

seanlee said:


> [email protected] is like the most popular guy on here and i have no clue who he is


That means you're old school sean.

BTW - I think Christian's solo of USB was more like 650. Which of course makes him a complete pussy. He'll get sickbird award when he does it DD style.


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## Schizzle (Mar 26, 2004)

doublet said:


> That means you're old school sean.
> 
> BTW - I think Christian's solo of USB was more like 650. Which of course makes him a complete pussy. He'll get sickbird award when he does it DD style.


I thought of a new name for him, he's the 6 Sigma Enigma. Meaning he's got like a 0.0001 defect rate. TQP...Total Quality Paddling.
...Christian that is.


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## CGM (Jun 18, 2004)

Schizzle said:


> I thought of a new name for him, he's the 6 Sigma Enigma. Meaning he's got like a 0.0001 defect rate. TQP...Total Quality Paddling.
> ...Christian that is.


True as long as you are not refering to Tom - which I don't think you are...Sean, meet Tom (aka TJ, aka "The Gore Race loser")


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## CGM (Jun 18, 2004)

And yes, Cheeseman sucks at any level and with no hike out....

Cutch/ACC, if there was a cage match between Cheeseman and Normandy canyon, Normandy would take that title like candy from a wee babe.


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## fred norquist (Apr 4, 2007)

jmack said:


> I'll add a vote for Escalante. More good rapids with less junk than just about any other run in CO.


escalante sucks..... just my 2 cents


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## chiefton (Aug 3, 2006)

Escalante may not be gnarlyherpegonnorheaiffic, but it definitely doesn't suck. And now my feelings are hurt.

Karl 2008


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## kuuskv (Nov 28, 2008)

I guess I'll add to the controvery:

#1 TIE: Crystal Gorge and Pandora's Box
#2 Vallecito
#3 I want to say Clear Creek of the Ark, I ran that thing probably 20 times this summer and it was an awesome run to have in my backyard(ish)

Close calls would be Big South and the OBJ quadra (in a day)

kevin


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## xkayaker13 (Sep 30, 2006)

1) Vallecito
2) Black Canyon
3) Normandy Canyon (USB > 600cfs)

Gore Canyon is close to being in there.

Clear Creek of the Ark is a shitty mankfest with minimally defined rapids. Probably my top 5 least favorite runs in Colorado. Just because it's located near you doesn't men it is one of the best.

I've never run Pandoras, and I broke my back in the Crystal Gorge so I'm somewhat biased on that one. Maybe next year I can talk one of you roaring fork guys into showing me how to run zute chute the right way.

You gotta learn to love the Cheese...


I don't know how high Normandy Canyon was the second time I soloed it. I left my house when the gauge was reading 900cfs and when I got back they had dropped it down to 600cfs. I think I probably hit it around 650-700cfs.


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## doublet (May 21, 2004)

xkayaker13 said:


> I don't know how high Normandy Canyon was the second time I soloed it. I left my house when the gauge was reading 900cfs and when I got back they had dropped it down to 600cfs. I think I probably hit it around 650-700cfs.


Whatever the flow was that's pretty burly shit...not that I condone it but it's pretty badass. I guess I can give you the DD style points for leaving your house when the gauge read 900. I'd probably only do that if I had safety Nick following me in a helicopter with a throwbag.


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## kayapelli (Aug 18, 2005)

To be considered the 3 best runs in the state, they must take up a full day, be challenging and be really really fun, so that you want to go back again and again. With this in mind my top 3 would be...

1) NFSP - Bailey to Pine - long fun class IV with 3 fun class V's to keep it interestering.
2) Upper Animas - long, very fun and never boring. Option for overnighter.
3) Arkansas, Granite through the numbers - long very fun, very high quality run with lots of play and Pine Creek thrown in to keep it spicy.

-Chris


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## seanlee (Apr 17, 2004)

how did USB become Normandy Canyon? And Christian you soloed that at 700? That is just redic!! Did you bike the shuttle?


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## Gary E (Oct 27, 2003)

Nope Christian? I'll argue that a 15 minute run is the best. It's a great run, just like C gorge but they're 15 minutes long.

Big South
NSV
Cheeseman
Embudo @ or above 3.5

Black Canyon can be done in 4 hrs, far from a Cali over nighter.


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## Meng (Oct 25, 2003)

1. Gunni town section
2. Milk run of the ARk
3. Any flatwater


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## seanlee (Apr 17, 2004)

And Escalante doesn't have any junk because it doesn't drop. For a run with that gradient and difficulty Bailey blows it out of the water.


Top 3:
OBJ 
Big South
Crystal Gorge 



To spice things up a bit.... The 3 best and memorable runs I have had in Colorado: 

OBJ (in a raft) 
Source around 500
OBJ - with high water Nick - Slate guage was 1350+ probably one of the sickests run I have ever done


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## Cutch (Nov 4, 2003)

seanlee said:


> how did USB become Normandy Canyon?


Because at any level over 450 it feels like bombs are going off all around you and the guys next to you are getting picked off one by one.


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## Schizzle (Mar 26, 2004)

Cutch said:


> Because at any level over 450 it feels like bombs are going off all around you and the guys next to you are getting picked off one by one.


Sounds like "fun"...but I do love the metaphor. Railroad ties, every rock is undercut & facing upstream, entire rails, probably even a locomotive with the grinning dead engineer - his bony hand still on the throttle in there somewhere, too. Yell, "INCOMING", the next time you float under the bridge, then deal for the next hour...or 15 minutes.Even if I was good enough, that run will never be on my to-do list.


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## jmack (Jun 3, 2004)

Escalante is better than Bailey (unless Bailey is 600+). 
My list:

Big South 
Embudo
Escalante

Gore is fun.
OBJ is on my shit list for breaking my Jefe.
CCArk- seriously?

Also- Christian, you are sick in the head.


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## Schizzle (Mar 26, 2004)

Meng said:


> 1. Gunni town section
> 2. Milk run of the ARk
> 3. Any flatwater


I'm laughing because that second hole in the Gunni play park scared me last year. Got up on the pile, looked down in there, big eyes, sunk a blade and washed off the back. If I saw that thing on a river I'd get on edge & start chucking blades for the nearest sneak line ASAP.


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## Schizzle (Mar 26, 2004)

jmack said:


> Escalante is better than Bailey (unless Bailey is 600+).
> My list:
> 
> Big South
> ...


I think I agree with this 100%, except that Embudo requires interstate commerce so to stay inside the regs, I'd maybe replace it with Black Canyon...good boofs...technical, clean lines...no elbow pads...no blast rock...scenery...and some good crowd filters. I could do without the sieves, but they reinforce the value of bringing your A-game...spiders.OBJ could use a granite makeover...or I could quite being a sally and do it with more flow...probably my own fault it's not in my favor.


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## caspermike (Mar 9, 2007)

Lake creek kicks most of the above mentioned creeks ASS's. big south is a hout the entire way. And number three. Would have to be nothing in Colorado cause the granite in good ol Wyo is closer to anything in cali than half the shit hole trashed runs listed above! Sorry to say it Colorado mank sucks tom's left testicle!


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## JCKeck1 (Oct 28, 2003)

You know it's funny cause my top 3 definitely rotate from year to year, depending on the days I've had there. At various times, I've listed all of the above runs (Esca, Gore, Crystal, CC Ark, OBJ and of course the Source), yet the Big South always makes the cut. The USB was pretty good to me this year, so she's making the list. I do like how kyle mentioned that you never ever see another group there - either putting on or taking off, but there's a pretty solid crew that goes in a lot.

The USB
Big Steezy
Pandoras or Valle

are my top three this year in no particular order...
Joe


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## Force (Apr 27, 2004)

Little North
M Box (that's Milo's box for the unexperienced)
Valle 

Suck it!


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## hartle (May 8, 2006)

Crystal gorge
Escalante
OBJ


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## Meng (Oct 25, 2003)

Ok, I want to post my 'real' top 3 so I can procrastinate doing my job - 

Big South (length and quality)
Vallecito (only thing with Cali or BC - esque geology)
Royal Gorge at 3200 and above (big water class 4 fun, low stress, just fun)

Runner ups - 

Escalante (awesome warm up to the season, low stress and unique)
Embudo (no in CO but close enough and super quality)
Black Canyon (adventure and an intense place)
OBJ (10 minutes from my office or house)
Cascade Creek/Rockwood Combo ( nice hike in, creek and big water combo adventure in one run)
Lime Creek main run (Adrenaline, Dragons and S-Turn)

Ok, back to work i guess.....


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## Este (Apr 18, 2005)

had to get in on this one. vallecito-big south- embudo in that order with 2 runs on vallecito


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## cirque (Mar 16, 2007)

*Black Canyon portage*

I think it has been done since , just not bragged about - thanks Ian


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## Schizzle (Mar 26, 2004)

cirque said:


> I think it has been done since , just not bragged about - thanks Ian


It's not bragging. It's about sharing. It's getting information out there so that people know what's been done and can ask questions about it. Plus, its cool for someone for be able to see a line, set the right safety, then execute to plan.Hard and easy rivers have good stories, I just like to hear a good story & see the pictures.


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## chrispy (Apr 6, 2004)

confluence at 114 cfs, lefthand and turkey creek


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