# Motor Heads..,Deso...Horsepower...Advice?



## Bongo (Sep 10, 2014)

I know there is a lot of good info out there but wanted some feedback on a motor issue....looking to push 7 rafts with 25 people and all the gear on July 7 for Deso / Gray....

I appreciate all the pure feedback about just rowing it and if you need to say more in that area, of course, you are free to do so...

*My question...* [/B]I am looking at a 4 stroke, 9.9 horse, 1998 Yamaha motor. I am willing to have it checked out by a shop but will cost $100. Asking price is $800...

I am I on the right track? Is this motor overkill? Others issues?

- Bongo (total motor newbie)


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## Bongo (Sep 10, 2014)

Another option could be a 1998 mercury long shaft 6hp - two stroke ...also at $800. Are these pretty loud? or not allowed on some rivers?
Thanks again to anyone who has advice on how this may work on a 15' raft..

Bongo


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

You gotta breathe the exhaust, too. Go for 4-stroke.


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## villagelightsmith (Feb 17, 2016)

Nice thing about a two-stroke: they are not sensitive to position when you have them off the transom. The 4-strokes have oil in the crankcase, and if they are positioned incorrectly it makes a real pain. Be careful not to pick an old Honda up by the tiller handle; my old Honda 10hp is on its 3rd tiller. They are a weak casting and a heavy motor and the tiller simply simply breaks off.
I use either 2 or 4 strokes. Many waters ban the 2-strokes. The old British Seagull ran a 16:1 or 10:1 gas/oil mix. Old outboards leaked, smoked, refused to start, and left a pretty rainbow colored oil sheen on the water. Moderns can't tolerate that idea. New 2-strokes run 100:1 gas/oil and they don't leak or smoke, but their old oily reputation still gets the 2-stroke banned. The 4-stroke Lehr outboard stands by itself as it runs on propane, so exhaust is a lot cleaner, but they cost a lot more to purchase. Still ... propane ... no spillage, and you're probably hauling propane anyway. Good luck! I hope this helps.


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## wack (Jul 7, 2015)

9.9 horse is a heavy motor to lift/mount, but you will get to Jack's creek in plenty of time. Last year in late July I pushed my overloaded 16' raft and a buddy's 16' cat with 3 people on a 3.5hp short shaft Tohatsu just fine. Wen't through about 3.5 gal of fuel.


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## villagelightsmith (Feb 17, 2016)

How many miles do you have to push that fleet? Are headwinds likely in that area? The kind of load and the kind of boat make a big difference too; 7 smallish cats are going to be a lot easier to move than 7 big, heavily laden bucket-boats!

"A Gentleman never sails against the wind. It simply isn't done, Old Chap."

(Somehow, I always end up rowing upwind.)


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## raymo (Aug 10, 2008)

How many hours a day are you planning on running your motor? How many gallons of petrol are you planning to bring? I would offer 600$ first, it's a 21 year old engine, still get it checked out and serviced. Motors can be a pain in the ass or a blessing in disguise, don't be too surprised if it craps out on you, shit happens, it's not the end of the world though. Definitely get the 4 stroker, 9.9 hp outboard is a little much, but bigger motors hold up better as they age. I would plan on 3/4 to 1 a gallon per/hour for fuel usage. If you bring five gallon fuel cans only fill to four gallons per can(expansion). I'm not going to get into tools, spare props, fire extinguisher, Holly Bible( to ask for forgiveness of foul words spoken to your motor), a quart of Holly Water to dab on it in the morning, etc. I will leave that to someone else. Have a nice trip and enjoy.


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## jspoon14 (Aug 5, 2012)

​
I pushed 6 raft fully loaded rafts with 15 people with a Suzuki 2.5 horse 4 stroke and it did fine. Did not set any speed records but we make good progress.


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## seantana (Mar 5, 2015)

villagelightsmith said:


> I use either 2 or 4 strokes. Many waters ban the 2-strokes. The old British Seagull ran a 16:1 or 10:1 gas/oil mix. Old outboards leaked, smoked, refused to start, and left a pretty rainbow colored oil sheen on the water. Moderns can't tolerate that idea. New 2-strokes run 100:1 gas/oil and they don't leak or smoke, but their old oily reputation still gets the 2-stroke banned.


I have a British Seagull that I've used to get down Snake lake, and to cruise some lakes around home with (no 2-stroke restrictions in MT, yet), and I nearly shat myself when I saw the recommended ratio. Biodegradable marine oil is good and all, but it still looks and smells like burning ass at that ratio. After experimenting, I've determined the old thing will run fine on 50:1 with no smoke or oil slick, as long as I give it a good few minutes in a barrel every few trips with the heavy stuff, to keep it lubed. It does sound like an angry chainsaw at full throttle, but I have a muffler idea for the intake to knock that down. 

I love that smelly old motor, it's lightweight, doesn't care about how you store it, and has never not fired within 3 pulls. The manual winding starter can be a trick sometimes, though. Won't get you there all that fast, but it'll run and run and run on a half gallon of fuel.

Not exactly relevant to the thread, but it's rare to see BS motors brought up anymore.


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## Whitewater Worthy Equip (Dec 11, 2013)

I have been through lots of different motors in the last 20 years. Like everything else, you’ll be a lot happier if you cry once and it works when you need it. I now have a 6 HP Tohatsu sail pro with 20” shaft and couldn’t be happier. Below is the prop guard I recommend. 

Someone will probably follow up with three reasons not to use a guard but after spending the money on a nice motor the last thing I want to do is replace the lower unit. 

There is pic on our resources page https://www.whitewaterworthy.com/resources/


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## richp (Feb 27, 2005)

Hi,

Something four stroke in the 5-6 hp range, long shaft, should do the job and be useable on all rivers. That 9.9 will be substantially heavier than the 5/6 hp single cylinder motors, as well. And if you pay attention to the directional instructions provided by the manufacturer, laying a four stroke on its side is no big deal.

Hope this helps.

Rich Phillips


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## Bongo (Sep 10, 2014)

Whitewater Worthy Equip said:


> I have been through lots of different motors in the last 20 years. Like everything else, you’ll be a lot happier if you cry once and it works when you need it. I now have a 6 HP Tohatsu sail pro with 20” shaft and couldn’t be happier. Below is the prop guard I recommend.
> 
> Someone will probably follow up with three reasons not to use a guard but after spending the money on a nice motor the last thing I want to do is replace the lower unit.
> 
> There is pic on our resources page https://www.whitewaterworthy.com/resources/


I will definitely look at the guard. Funny - I just looked at a 2015 Tohatsu 6hp. Do you find that gives enough power. Do you think a 6hp Tohatsu could push 7 rafts and 12 adults, 12 kids and a crap load of gear? Also, does your motor have a self contained gas tank or a line to another tank? And, how much can you handle traveling upstream with just your boat (i.e what speed of current can you overcome for upriver travel?)... I am in 15' NRS fyi

Thanks, Bongo


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## Whitewater Worthy Equip (Dec 11, 2013)

6 hp will do fine pushing down stream. Don’t plan on up running with any size motor as it ain’t a rocket ship. It has external fuel tank and a charging coil for a battery but rarely use the charging.

Any time it’s been stored on its side, even the correct one, pull the plug and pull the starter rope a few times. If you fail at this procedure oil can get on top of the piston and you can bend the crank.... motor be trash.


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## matt man (Dec 23, 2011)

I have been fine running a 9.9 hp merc 2 stroke on the back of my 14’ er.

Be prepared to break down and cuss a bit when running a motor, basically all the things Raymo said.great tool sometimes, and great pita during others.
How many days you taking on Deso?


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## unlucky (Sep 2, 2012)

Id get the 6 hp 4 stroke. Yamaha makes great engines, the 9.9 twin will run smoother and probably last forever if you take care of it, but i'd go with the 6 hp for the weight and 6hp has more than enough power for pushing most fleets. I use a 4 hp 2stroke (paid $75 for it years ago) and it pushes 5 rafts no problem. 3.5 gallons is more than enough fuel for deso - and some trips we use the motor more than just the first 23 miles.

Getting rid of old 2-stroke gas/oil is a PITA and you dont want to be using gasoline that is a year or two old. Go 4 stroke.

4 stroke motors require special consideration when storing. the motor will tell you how to store it. You can use the tilt/store mechanism on the motor or lay it down-specific to the motor but it is not a problem.

Don't forget to do maintenance on your water pump/impeller. I've run across more than a few that quit working on Deso, even some commercial trips. Most manufacturers recommend changing every 3-5 years whether you use it or not. If you use it a lot then sooner. Sure the 10 yr old pumps still move some water, but not like a new one does. Rafters use the motors really hard, don't risk your power head. Water pumps are cheap and easy to do yourself if you are motivated.


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

MT4Runner said:


> You gotta breathe the exhaust, too. Go for 4-stroke.



Tohatsu 5 HP propane. I bought one and will never go back to gasoline, not to mention they are available with a 25 inch long shaft.


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## BackCountry (Nov 22, 2009)

I run a 6 hp Nissan (Tohatsu) with the Ultra Long Sail Pro with the 25" shaft and high torque propeller. No problem pushing 6+ boats down stream at a good pace even at idle. Quiet enough at just above idle when barged up that it is not noticed while in party barge configuration. As mentioned above keep an eye on the water impeller and carry a spare and tools. The Colorado and Green rivers are full of silt and hard on impellers. Had one go out on Westwater which overheated the exhaust valve and caused it to bend in the cylinder head requiring a rebuild with a new head and valves. Lesson learned the hard way - now I inspect the impeller yearly and carry a spare in my repair box along with checking the flow out the rear check port several times a day while motor is in use. 3.5 gallons with the external tank is more than enough fuel to push 6 boats on Deso or Separation to Pierce Ferry. 



If I were to buy it again I wouldn't hesitate but I would buy the new Tohatsu 5 HP Ultra Long Shaft propane version instead of the gasoline version. That way you have one fuel source for both cooking and the outboard. The Tohatsu outboard is an investment that will last you a lifetime if maintained and cared for. Every time you are barged up in a strong head wind and relaxing drinking a beverage with your friends motoring by those struggling without a motor sweating against the wind you will not regret the purchase.


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## Bongo (Sep 10, 2014)

Thanks all For the help - I ended up with a 2011 tohatsu 4 stroke 6hp in good shape — bought through a shop consignment ...:. Now on to frame configurations and mounting —- curious to pics of different mounting rigs for motors — NRS has the frame bars for attaching to their motor mount — anyone running a motor on some kind of mount by itself with just straps to back it up instead of these bars ( though their set-up looks solid)????

Also, are y’all just carving out a space in your real bay to stand and run the motor? Trying to figure out where to put all my multi day gear/bags if I need to be in the back of my rig and still have my main cockpit.


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## ckirrk (Jul 13, 2013)

I am a fan of the 6 hp tohatsu 4 stroke. its a great little motor. I pushed 6 rafts down meander canyon to cataract canyon (50 miles) then on to Hite (another 50 miles) without difficulty. (I used 5.5 gallons of gas) remember all you are going to be able to do is keep the package in the current, together and maybe add a bit of speed to the trip. I've not seen prop guards be beneficial if you tear off the lower unit a prop guard is just more scrap to haul out. Just sayin'.(don't tear off the lower unit)
Have fun


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