# Clear Creek on The Today Show



## bigben (Oct 3, 2010)

when your guide says toes up, feet downstream he actually means it, dumbasses... welcome to the shitshow

lots funnier for me than it was for them!! hooray high water


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## powdahound76 (Jul 20, 2006)

I can't watch the vid, but having spent half of my swim time on Clear Creek, I know you dont want to swim there. Not only do you want to keep your feet downstream and toes up, keep them together, very close together. Learned that the hard way my first year kayaking and got the scar to remind me.


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## Phillips (Feb 19, 2004)

You only want to do this if you think someone is gonna pull you back in your raft. If your kayaking and wet exit, put your head down and swim for it.



powdahound76 said:


> I can't watch the vid, but having spent half of my swim time on Clear Creek, I know you dont want to swim there. Not only do you want to keep your feet downstream and toes up, keep them together, very close together. Learned that the hard way my first year kayaking and got the scar to remind me.


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## bigben (Oct 3, 2010)

*shartin' gravel ??*



powdahound76 said:


> I can't watch the vid, but having spent half of my swim time on Clear Creek, I know you dont want to swim there. Not only do you want to keep your feet downstream and toes up, keep them together, very close together. Learned that the hard way my first year kayaking and got the scar to remind me.


hmm... a rock enema, huh?? fuck that. don't want my taint turned into a tizzn't by some sharp ass clear creek rock!! my buddy broke his tailbone on a rock tubin the poudre with me last month. once again, way funnier for me than it was for him


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## powdahound76 (Jul 20, 2006)

Guess that depends on what you are in the middle of when you swim, eh? Many places in that creek I want my feet in front of me to make it through the rocks, then swim like a mo. Maybe I am crazy or just ignorant, but that is the way I go through rapids out of my boat. Fortunately, that is less often than my first couple of year (knockin on my head as I type with one hand).


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## powdahound76 (Jul 20, 2006)

*Swimmers.....*



bigben;236777 don't want my taint turned into a tizzn't by some sharp ass clear creek rock!! [/QUOTE said:


> Had I been "head down and swimming for it" I might have killed the whole swim team!


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## bigben (Oct 3, 2010)

head downstream just sounds awkward in any whitewater. i'd rather just roll over and upstream ferry myself with a swift butterfly stroke. at least i don't have to worry about breaking another helmet. the family jewels might not be so lucky tho.
haven't paddled it yet, but clear creek just looks so freakin rocky

i gotta work on that whole walking on water thing. it'd make fallin off my ducky so much more fun


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## Phillips (Feb 19, 2004)

"Head down" and head downstream" are two different things. Of course it would be awkward with your "head downstream". It would not only be awkward but it would be suicide. All I meant is that if you assume the "feet up and down stream position" for too long in sizable and serious whitewater your destined for a bad case of hypothermia and flush drownings. Not my cup of tea. So when you swim. . . put your head down and swim for shore (especially if your already gassed from that friggin hole ride that just beat you down). If you can grab your paddle thats an added bonus. 

cheers
Kent



bigben said:


> head downstream just sounds awkward in any whitewater. i'd rather just roll over and upstream ferry myself with a swift butterfly stroke. at least i don't have to worry about breaking another helmet. the family jewels might not be so lucky tho.
> haven't paddled it yet, but clear creek just looks so freakin rocky
> 
> i gotta work on that whole walking on water thing. it'd make fallin off my ducky so much more fun


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## powrider686 (Aug 12, 2009)

Well the video pretty much settles this debate for us eh? head downstream and trying to stand up equals a bunch of broken legs and feet while feet downstream on the surface lets you swim into that nice eddy on the side and walk out gracefully.


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## g.soutiere (Jul 7, 2009)

From the vidio the swimmer should have been able to make it to the raft if he would have tried to swim. I was always taught if you swim especialy in a class iv rapid you think of it as a self rescue situation. My 2 cents


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## powrider686 (Aug 12, 2009)

agreed. but once your out of reach of the boat he should have started looking downstream, feet downstream and prepared for it.


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## hojo (Jun 26, 2008)

Interesting discussion on swim options. I always find it interesting that they tell rafters the swim technique when the actual way we swim any rapid is so dynamic that the basic swim position becomes 1/10th of the necessary skill.

It's easy for an experienced boater/swimmer to point out how not to swim. It's also easy for anyone to take a bad swim even when they "know" what to do. Most of us have had practice starting with class I/II swims whereas commercial rafters get a 10 min briefing. Feet down stream and head up works until you hit that first hole where, if you're not experienced, it's ass over tea kettle and the memory of the 10 minute briefing is replaced with the sudden understanding of one's own mortality. 

Shawn is my friend and I'm quite sad that his leg is so very damaged.


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## TELEYAKCO (May 17, 2007)

Close to the end of the video the green boat eddies out right and the swimmer just seems to look at him and keep leisurely floating by a 4 boat eddy.He never seems to be in a hurry to get rescued,even though the "safety" boater didn't look to rushed to help.It looks like alot could have been done different in this rescue.


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## basil (Nov 20, 2005)

What section of Clear Creek?


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## ZLSeth (Aug 17, 2004)

hojo… best wishes to your friend, I genuinely hope he recovers well.

I agree that when you're in the water all of that 10-minute briefing is forgotten.

I guess I have two problems with this whole thing:

One.. you are on Clear Creek during one of the biggest runoff seasons in recent history. Lots of cold water. Very rocky. Class IV. If you don't have it together 100%, you don't belong there.

Two… going on national TV to trash the reputation of a sport that we all know and love. We all know the risks. Most of us know a few people who have lost their lives in whitewater… experienced boaters. Nearly everyone who watched that and has never been in whitewater before was just spoon-fed a negative reputation for whitewater sports.


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## gannon_w (Jun 27, 2006)

Hope your friend gets better Hojo.

Did it seem like they were blaming someone for putting them in that situation? I just got the feeling "we were forced here and noone helped us" was what they were saying. Or maybe the interviewer seemed to be leading them in that direction.


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## hojo (Jun 26, 2008)

In my opinion, the only reason the interview happened was because of the head can footage and the fact no one died. The today show guy used the extreme language to characterize the river. Everyone on this list will agree that the decision to not deploy a turkey leg was the true issue.


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## Badazws6 (Mar 4, 2007)

They are just milking their 15 minutes, it is far worse for the rafting company's then it is for private kayakers. For me the most horrific and terrifying part of that story is the way you are basically forced to look up that guys skirt while they are sitting there on camera. I felt like I'm watching some version of "Basic Instinct" that has gone terribly wrong.


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## Randaddy (Jun 8, 2007)

hojo, I hope your friend's Balloon Boy-esque media lust made him enough money to get over his bruised leg.

I think when the girl refers to the river as "the course" it becomes clear that they had no idea what they were getting themselves into; maybe the raft company's fault, maybe their own expectations. 

Someone should send the Today Show a Gauley carnage video, they would shit!


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## FrankC (Jul 8, 2008)

Basically Clear Creek is a poor choice for inexperience rafters. Very shallow with sharp rocks everywhere. If you swim you will be fucked up. These folks should have been on Browns Canyon or something with deep water and less repercusions if you swim.


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## brettb (Apr 9, 2005)

Randaddy said:


> I think when the girl refers to the river as "the course" it becomes clear that they had no idea what they were getting themselves into; maybe the raft company's fault, maybe their own expectations.


for sure! as a resident up here on the "creek" raft guide and kayaker!
most of the tourists really cant comprehend what they are truly getting into!
many of my commercial passengers get a personal briefing that this is not a "roller coaster ride" and real consequences occur... this also gets them paddling better! 1 swimmer in 10 years is very lucky for me! Doing my best to keep tourons in the boat at all times!!! 

Powdahound: remember that rapid now as "A-hole rapid" and I smile everytime I watch you drop "A-Hole" sideways and backwards now grinning from ear to ear!
hows the ol' taint doing?:razz: cant remember the last time you swam?

All: waters gonna be huge this week ..over 600 in G-town as I type lets keep it right side up! and keep up the good work for safe/clean C.C. season!!!!!


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## powdahound76 (Jul 20, 2006)

A-hole rapid it is, almost had me another one that day. BrettB, could you tell where they were on CC? Also, I swam out of your mini-me two times in one race on Lawson a few years ago, or do I not count since I am just a dirty bum? Those dorks at NBC need to learn how to edit. I will say the swimming looked very leisure.


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## g.soutiere (Jul 7, 2009)

gannon_w said:


> Hope your friend gets better Hojo.
> 
> Did it seem like they were blaming someone for putting them in that situation? I just got the feeling "we were forced here and noone helped us" was what they were saying. Or maybe the interviewer seemed to be leading them in that direction.


 on the 9news clip they are completely blaming the guides and say that they started out in class I, II rapids(I didn't know there were classI,II rapids on clear creek). The whole news report was very ignorant of our sport, and the safty 90% of us practice and teach.


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## powdahound76 (Jul 20, 2006)

Looks like this is Upper canyon on CC, on the downstream side of tunnel 6? The river middle rock they are heading towards with the swimmer just upstream of the raft looks like it might be there. That corner is called Hell's Corner or something like that on the maps the FD/SWR team has. It is continuous waves and a few good holes to hit. One of the few places that has very little "blast rock". Some raft companies run the "town run" (class III) from IS to Kermits as a warm up and to make sure their paddling crews are up to the canyon. After they pick up the safety kayakers at the put-in, it is Class IV pretty fast with the Beavers right around the corner....


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## brettb (Apr 9, 2005)

g.soutiere said:


> The whole news report was very ignorant of our sport, and the safty 90% of us practice and teach.


yes much like avalanches! these folks cant do the job they are trained to do!
cant do weather or cover a simple non-story! thank god i dont have a TV!
think about the many people who swam phoenix ... a couple even broke legs!
no story there... duh swimming sucks anywhere but clear creek seems to be my fear more so than the Ark or any where where that I found myself and my boat momentarily seperated!

powdahonud: does it count as swimming in lawson if you get to shore or back in boat in under 5 secs? if so .... I can proudly say i never swam lawson!!! 2 times!!! which leads me to other comments regarding those folks not helping themselves..... actively take your life in your own hands if you go rafting commercially!!!!!!! and reinforce that to you wonderful clients! they talked about the boat being outta control!!! of course thats why I told you" if someone falls in *only 1 person* help them back in otherwise more will fall in and we will not be able to navigate accordingly"


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## powdahound76 (Jul 20, 2006)

If you only kiss a guy for 5 seconds or less....... Just saying sucka. The nastiness of CC is why I gave up swimming and just stay in my kayak now. hehe
I think people just think it is safe because it only costs about $50-75 for a really exciting ww rafting trip. If it was dangerous, they would have to charge more, right? I also think think the hype and excitement keeps people from paying attention to the safety talk and making sure they know what do when they swim.
On my first trip on the river upon the Poudre, we were told we could pull our feet from the thwarts and relax in the eddy. We were moving a little bit, hit a hidden rock and I was going out backwards. The guy opposite me grabbed my foot as I was going in, trapping my head underwater. It took several seconds of me kicking and the guide yelling for him to let me go. An easy swim in a big eddy for me, but the guide was beside himself heading down the upper mish at 4.5 with part of a crew that didn't listen.
News reporters are like politicians, full of BS and have no clue about what happens in the real world!


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## FLOWTORCH (Mar 5, 2004)

I kinda just saw that today show clip as a gapers_ caught on camera_ moment rather than a bash against our _sport_ but I didnt see the 9news interview...or really listen to them.

What I wanna know is why the two swimmers we had on the white mile yesterday weren't on Good Morning America this a.m.

I swam Dumont @ 900 last year after following too close to shizzle into a hole. Worst swim ever. Couldnt hardly stand when I finally got out. Could totally see that knee injury happening to any swimmer there.


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## KSC (Oct 22, 2003)

I think this just underscores the lack of awareness most non-boaters have of what they're getting into when they sign up for a WW rafting trip. Most hear the same warnings whether they're jumping into high water CC or low water Brown's Canyon... to say nothing of the commercial Gore trips.


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## Kendrick (Jul 8, 2010)

Nice vid. The green boat in the beginning and at the end is the same as mine, I think (Green Prijon Pure)! That guy's my hero


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## rwhyman (May 23, 2005)

powdahound76 said:


> News reporters are like politicians, full of BS and have no clue about what happens in the real world!


This has to be one of the most profound things I've ever read on the Buzz.


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## Andy H. (Oct 13, 2003)

Wow, I hope the guy has a full recovery and don't envy him for his injuries but there's just so much in that video that amazes me and continues to my mistrust of anything the media reports.

"River Expedition" - I usually think of expeditions as being more than a day trip beside a road... 

"They were thrown into an unexpectedly powerful and violent current" - Let's see, peak runoff, record high flows, and you can see the creek from the road all the way to the put-in. If these guys weren't expecting powerful water, I don't know how I could ever tell them what to expect if they fall out of the boat.

"He joins us exclusively this morning..." - Are the other news outlets elbowing each other for a chance to interview a guy that fell out of a raft at high water and had to go to the hospital?

"...along with fellow survivors..." and "... its a tale I'm glad you all lived to tell us about..." - Were all the others on this routine 1/2 day trip killed?

The only thing unusual about this is that it was caught from a POV. But there's nothing unusual about a news station picking it up and milking a routine story. William Randolph Hurst is alive and well.... 

-AH


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## Waterwindpowderrock (Oct 11, 2003)

FrankC said:


> Basically Clear Creek is a poor choice for inexperience rafters. Very shallow with sharp rocks everywhere. If you swim you will be fucked up. These folks should have been on Browns Canyon or something with deep water and less repercusions if you swim.



Yet hundreds of noobs come down the river every day & very few of them have issues. Some people are going to have problems no matter where they go.

When I was on channel 7 this winter... I TRIED to make it something other than the usual "avalanche accident" BS... they sure do everything they can to turn it into a stack of BS when they do these things. Reporters are a step below politicians (TV reporters that is... we've got a few good writers among us on here!).


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