# Trailer hub question



## wyosam (May 31, 2006)

The inner seal is bad. 


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## nemi west (Jun 22, 2006)

Yep. If you posted a pic I would probably say ..... " it looks like you blew a seal"


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## readNrun (Aug 1, 2013)

wyosam said:


> The inner seal is bad.


Ok - thanks. How does grease get to the outside of the rim from a bad inner seal?

Also - I assume I can replace just the inner seal without replacing the entire bearing or is it best to just replace the whole shebang?


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## elkhaven (Sep 11, 2013)

So is this on the outside of the wheel or inside? Outside of the wheel it's likely that the bearing buddy it'self isn't sealing tightly into the hub. It's either loose or there is a defect/ding/etc on either the hub or the bearing buddy. If the greese is on the inside of the wheel, I'd agree you blew a seal.


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## [email protected] (Jun 1, 2010)

These can help stop grease on the outside of wheels.


Opentip.com: Bearing Buddy 70019 Bearing Buddy Bra - 19-B


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## readNrun (Aug 1, 2013)

Grease in on the outside of the wheel (rim). There is no grease leaking from the bearing buddy or on the shaft what so ever. I'll take a better look tonight and see if I can see where it's leaking from.


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## readNrun (Aug 1, 2013)

[email protected] said:


> These can help stop grease on the outside of wheels.
> 
> 
> Opentip.com: Bearing Buddy 70019 Bearing Buddy Bra - 19-B


Already installed on both wheels. Still grease on outside of wheel rim.


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## sea hag (Mar 24, 2006)

Heh. Blew a seal. Said the walrus.


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## elkhaven (Sep 11, 2013)

sea hag said:


> Heh. Blew a seal. Said the walrus.


No, it was just mayonaise.


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## elkhaven (Sep 11, 2013)

Read_N_Run said:


> Grease in on the outside of the wheel (rim). There is no grease leaking from the bearing buddy or on the shaft what so ever. I'll take a better look tonight and see if I can see where it's leaking from.


If it's leaking from the BB/hub interface, you won't see it leaking from my experience, you'll just see splatters on the wheel. It only leaks when heated and running - hence the splatters. Pressure builds up and pushes it out through a small gap and it gets flung out to the wheel. I've had this happen several times - try tapping the BB back in and snugging it up. If that doesn't work take it off, clean up the mating surfaces and inspect for burr's, nicks, etc. file them off if necessary. But usually just taking it off and cleaning the surfaces fixes the problem.

Edit - have you looked at the inner seal? You'll notice if that's leaking. Usually there will be a crust of dusty desiccated grease with some fresh oozing from somewhere. If you do replace the inner seal just clean and repack the bearings after you remove them (unless you notice something odd, or it's been a long while since replacement).


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## caverdan (Aug 27, 2004)

Read_N_Run said:


> Grease in on the outside of the wheel (rim). There is no grease leaking from the bearing buddy or on the shaft what so ever. I'll take a better look tonight and see if I can see where it's leaking from.


Bearing Buddies have a spring inside them and they put a little pressure on the grease when you pump them full. This positive pressure keeps the water from wanting to come in through the rear seal. 

I agree with others about replacing the seal. Pull it back apart and look at the seal and it's mating surface on the axle. There might be a burr on the axle that cut the seal when you were installing it. If everything looks good, make sure you drive the new seal on straight and to the proper depth. Be careful you slide it together straight. Good luck.


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## Toysx2 (Dec 29, 2012)

I was having the same issue until I replaced these:

https://www.loadrite.com/store/product.php?productid=17995

They may be pretty much standard in size. I just showed the counter guy what I wanted. He did not ask what they were for. Cured the problem.
The ones that I got were a generic brand. I notice this ad says not to use the buddy bearing caps.....


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## readNrun (Aug 1, 2013)

I honestly don't think the grease is coming out of the end bb or from the cap that is covering the bb. Looking closer (ok...I'll post pictures soon) it /could/ be coming out from where the bb mates with the hub. I assume a few taps would remedy that but I haven't done it yet. 

Looking at the inside of the wheel I didn't notice much grease so it's almost all going on the outboard side on the outside of the rim.


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## readNrun (Aug 1, 2013)

I pulled the entire hub apart including the inner seal (which ate itself as I removed it). I was amazed at the sheer volume of grease that was in the hub, on the spindle and all over. Most of it was very dark black and pretty putrid. 

I cleaned everything and of course I'm going to head off to get a new inner seal and probably a new cotter pin for the castle nut as well since it got a little gnarled when I pulled it.

The bearings look pretty reasonable - but I'm thinking since I have everything apart - why not replace it all. I haven't headed to the AP store yet but looking online it seems the kits run somewhere between $10-$15. 

What's the going consensus - replace everything while I'm doing it?


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## Paul7 (Aug 14, 2012)

If it's a good bearing such as Timken no need to replace. Wash the old grease out with solvent look for pitting and color from heat then just repack. A good quality bearing can last a very long time. Make sure you don't over tighten the bearing. You should have just the smallest amount of wiggle when you're done. Take the time to actually pack the bearings don't rely on the bearing buddy. 

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## elkhaven (Sep 11, 2013)

Read_N_Run said:


> I honestly don't think the grease is coming out of the end bb or from the cap that is covering the bb. Looking closer (ok...I'll post pictures soon) it /could/ be coming out from where the bb mates with the hub. I assume a few taps would remedy that but I haven't done it yet.
> 
> Looking at the inside of the wheel I didn't notice much grease so it's almost all going on the outboard side on the outside of the rim.


That's what I was trying and apparently failed to say.

Sounds like you've been getting water in there for a while. Yes replace the bearings too - you're already 90% there.


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## semievolved (Nov 12, 2011)

you're getting some good advice here, especially from elkhaven. i'd check the inside surface of the hub, where the BB presses in very carefully. Depending on how old the hub is and what kind of cap was in there, it's not uncommon to have a rust pitting or scoring from rough cap removal (think screwdriver gouge) or just plain wear or damage from lots of presses and removals. Should be able to clean any damage up as long as it's not too severe. The other thing I wonder about is if maybe too much grease was injected. In that case, the excess will seep out as soon as it gets warm.


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## Learch (Jul 12, 2010)

If you dunk the trailer in water I'd suggest marine grease for the hubs, not water, regular grease is fine. I don't replace bearings unless they give me indication they are bad or going bad, but I know what to look for. For a do it yourself person, you might be able to fine an entire hub kit that comes with bearing races already installed in the hub and all new parts. We have a place called Rockwell American I can order from here in Oregon. I'm sure you can find a place online if you can wait a few days. My bearing buddy did that too, pretty sure that mine bled out of the weep hole like it was designed to do.


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## Learch (Jul 12, 2010)

Trailer Idler Hub Assembly for 3,500-lb Axles - 5 on 4-1/2 etrailer Trailer Hubs and Drums AKIHUB-545-35-K

for example


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## readNrun (Aug 1, 2013)

More on the work.....

After close inspection the inner bearing needs replacement because of my graceful(not) removal of the inner bearing seal. Since I'm doing that I'll replace the outer one as well.

My spindle is a tapered one with a 1 3/8 inner diameter and 1 1/8 outer. so I actually need two different size bearings. It seems pretty common so I just need to figure out where to get it from.

That being said - it seems there is a great variety in the quality of bearings. Timken is supposedly one of the top ones and they make a kit (here) that includes a lot of stuff I don't need. I guess I could buy the parts separate but by then I'm still pretty close to the kit. 

I haven't pulled the other side off yet but will after I get this side all back together.

Any guidance on other companies that supply quality bearings? This is really something I don't want to roll the dice with. Also - most of these kits come with the races - but it seems my hub has them "integrated" so I assume I just toss the ones that come with the kit?

Oh - and as far as water. My wheels almost NEVER go into the water.


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## Paul7 (Aug 14, 2012)

If the trailer has some years on it you might want to consider getting a new axle assembly. You can get a complete assembly for under 200. As far as bearings go any us made bearing will do just stay away from the imports from northern tool or harbor freight. 

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## readNrun (Aug 1, 2013)

Paul7 said:


> If the trailer has some years on it you might want to consider getting a new axle assembly. You can get a complete assembly for under 200. As far as bearings go any us made bearing will do just stay away from the imports from northern tool or harbor freight.


This is a 3500lb (2 3/8") capacity axle and I can tell you the assembly would be WAY more than $200 for this axle. 

Looking around it's really hard to find which bearings are made in the US. Even US based companies are now mfg bearings overseas or often in Mexico.


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## Paul7 (Aug 14, 2012)

I don't know exactly what you have but here's something that must be similar.

https://www.etrailer.com/Trailer-Axles/Dexter/35545I-EZ-89.html

As far as bearings I just go to a store that sells nothing but bearings Google something bet you have such a store near you. 

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## elkhaven (Sep 11, 2013)

Read_N_Run said:


> More on the work.....
> 
> After close inspection the inner bearing needs replacement because of my graceful(not) removal of the inner bearing seal. Since I'm doing that I'll replace the outer one as well.
> 
> ...


Each part should have part numbers stamped on them. I usually go to Napa with nicely cleaned parts and come back with new ones for under $20 a side. I believe they are usually Timkin, but I'm not towing the space shuttle so I typically don't worry too much.

My wheels go into the water @most ramps, all three boat trailers. It's really not that big of a deal, the're designed to get wet. 

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## PhilipJFry (Apr 1, 2013)

I paid $220 for a 3500lb axle built by some local company here in boise... i'd have a hard time believing that you would spend *way* more any place else with a population similar to Boise.

etrailer has your exact axle for less than $200 
Dexter Trailer Axle with Idler Hubs - 5 on 4-1/2 Bolt Pattern - 89" Long - 3,500 lbs Dexter Trailer Axles 35545I-ST-89


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## readNrun (Aug 1, 2013)

Yep - my bad. I'm just not sure I want to go replacing the entire axle when just the bearings would suffice. The trailer is probably about 4 or 5 years old.


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## PhilipJFry (Apr 1, 2013)

yeah, as long as the spindle is okay and you haven't eaten that up. My trailer was a good 30+ years old when I replaced it's axle, I should have repacked the bearings a long time prior, I waited for a wheel to fall off though. *HA* picked up the axle and an hour later, I was back in business.. I considered it cheap for what I did.


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## readNrun (Aug 1, 2013)

PhilipJFry said:


> yeah, as long as the spindle is okay and you haven't eaten that up. My trailer was a good 30+ years old when I replaced it's axle, I should have repacked the bearings a long time prior, I waited for a wheel to fall off though. *HA* picked up the axle and an hour later, I was back in business.. I considered it cheap for what I did.


Yea - spindle looks great. Figure what it really rides on are the bearings and the hubs. So I want to make sure I put some good quality bearings in. 

I'm just seeing a lot of reviews for bearings of questionable origin. I'll check back in at Napa tomorrow to see if they carry Timkin bearings.


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## spencerhenry (Jun 21, 2004)

the race is not "part of the hub". 
a race is pressed in, or driven in with a mallet. drive the old one out with a hammer and a punch.

IF the hub as a "built in" race, throw that set up in the trash. i have NEVER seen a built in race in any hub of any kind.

bearing buddies seem like a great idea, but adding grease on a regular basis is a good way to make a mess. if grease gets past the seal, it attracts dirt. dirt in the grease will tear up the seal, leave it that way for a while and the dirt will also tear up the spindle where the seal sits.
pack the bearings properly with a quality grease and they should last a good long time. set up the bearings with zero end play but not too tight. spin the hub as you are tightening the nut. go TOO far and get the bearings tight, then back off the nut and tighten it down to snug, while turning the hub.

almost all trailer bearings i have looked at are set up loose. it is possible for the races to seat, and loosen up. checking the end play after a couple of uses is not a bad idea. bearings will never get tighter, only looser.


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## readNrun (Aug 1, 2013)

spencerhenry said:


> the race is not "part of the hub".
> a race is pressed in, or driven in with a mallet. drive the old one out with a hammer and a punch.


Yea - after writing that I watched some videos and then look back at the hub and realized that those races are just pressed in. It's just that from first inspection it seems like they are integral to the hub.

That being said - they look like they are in perfect condition and I'm just going to replace the bearings and seal.

Thanks for the tip on the bb and putting the hub back on the spindle. The sheer volume of grease that the bb allows to be in the hub seems like an issue as it accumulates over the years. I'll continue to use the bb but will probably still pull the hub every few years to clean out ALL of the old grease.


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## Learch (Jul 12, 2010)

I'd recommend replacing the races as well. Our Napa out here carries SKF bearings, and they work great. The place I work also carries SKF brand bearings, so I have installed lots of their bearings in all sorts of applications. You will want to rent borrow or buy a bearing race installation set too.( I know our O'Reilly auto parts out here loans them) They are designed to install the bearing race without damaging the wear surface. You can also use the old bearing race as an installation tool, but it takes some care. The bearings I take apart on vehicles and trailers typically have one issue, corrosion. I don't see many bearings that just look worn out, I almost always find rust pitting on a wear surface of a wheel bearing that lead to the failure. I'm a firm believer in making even a cheap bearing last by keeping it good and lubricated. I also think you can junk a good bearing by not keeping in lubricated. It sounds like you are on the right track.


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## caverdan (Aug 27, 2004)

Read_N_Run said:


> That being said - they look like they are in perfect condition and I'm just going to replace the bearings and seal.


If your replacing the bearing......you need to replace the race too. When cleaning old bearings, make sure to get them back in the same race they came out of. 

The bearings and races make wear patterns you can't sometimes see with the naked eye. If you mix them up, they wear out quicker due to the different wear patterns being introduced to each other. If a new bearing goes into an old race, it's not going to be a smooth ride for the new bearing. Trust me...I use to be an A&P mechanic.....replace them both. 

Once again.......Always replace bearings and races as a set and don't get them mixed up when repacking them. Buy your parts that you depend on.....like wheel bearings......from NAPA. They sell quality parts and will try and get you whatever brand you want.

Edit to say....Learch and I posted at the same time....I agree that SKS bearing is a good brand to go with


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## readNrun (Aug 1, 2013)

All good stuff...you guys rock. 

Ok. If I'm going to replace the races too, at what point it it just worth it to replace the whole hub that comes with the races and bearings as a match.

And yes, I know the bearings I buy will come with races. 


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## caverdan (Aug 27, 2004)

It comes down to whatever is cheaper and/or more convenient. If you don't have the tools or know how, it might be better to go with the whole set up. If your cheap like me and have done it before.....I replace exactly what's needed.....if it's cheaper that way.

I doubt your going to get Timken bearings in a cheap complete assembly.

As far as your question on when to replace the hub. When the race doesn't fit tight when you drive the new one in.....it is time to replace the hub. Last thing you want is the race to spin in the hub.


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## readNrun (Aug 1, 2013)

I started this thread with a blow-by-blow so why stop now 

Can't find any place locally that has everything in stock - bearings, oil seal, races, etc. So, it looks like I need to order it online. That means I've been asked "by the powers that be" to move the trailer out of the garage. I slapped the hub and bearings back together with the old ones without any grease. I figured all I need to do is roll it out of the garage and across the street - and I can do that without grease and a oil seal.

When the bearing kit comes in, I'll be pulling the races as well and then putting it all back together. For the other side - I'll have a look at how it is as well and may or may not replace the bearings on that side. I'm guessing the only issue on the other side is that it's got some really old grease in there from when the trailer was first put into service. 

Side note - I found a faint "made in china" on the bearings that I pulled out so I assume it will be an upgrade to timken from the current bearings. 

Once again - thanks to everyone for their help in this project and I'll follow up once the new parts are in.


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## elkhaven (Sep 11, 2013)

Wow, I thought it was hard to get things in bozeman... This should have been a simple fix, bummer it was such a hassle! Go have a well deserved frosty cold one.


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## Sherpa9543 (Jul 22, 2014)

If you replace the bearings REPLACE the races also. I learned this one the hard way. You cannot be positive that one make of bearing/races dimensions will match what you already have inside. I put a new bearing inside of old races that had a slightly different pitch (unbeknown to me at the time) made it about 100 miles and the new bearing was thrashed. Luckily I made it to my driveway to find this out, but I wasted time and $$ trying to cut a corner. 


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## readNrun (Aug 1, 2013)

Sherpa9543 said:


> If you replace the bearings REPLACE the races also. I learned this one the hard way.<snip>


Yep - will be replacing the races as well. I'm just glad I didn't remove the current races since I had to put the hub back on in order to move the trailer temporarily.

As soon as the parts arrive I'll be stopping by O'Reilly to borrow a race setting kit.


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## sledhooligan (Mar 12, 2009)

Do not just replace a bearing without replacing the race with it. Unless a hub is damaged from a full on bearing failure you don't need to replace the hubs.
Napa should be able to measure the seal and bearings and get you what you need.
Have you ever done a job like this? You need to know how to pack the bearings with grease and adjust preload.


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## readNrun (Aug 1, 2013)

sledhooligan said:


> Do not just replace a bearing without replacing the race with it. Unless a hub is damaged from a full on bearing failure you don't need to replace the hubs.
> Napa should be able to measure the seal and bearings and get you what you need.
> Have you ever done a job like this? You need to know how to pack the bearings with grease and adjust preload.


Ummm....I know..isn't that what Sherpa9543 along with a few others have said? 

Nope - never done it before but I've done a lot of other wrenching so I'm pretty sure I can figure it out. Google/youtube is my friend.


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## Gremlin (Jun 24, 2010)

I had a catastrophic failure with my trailer that made me very careful about bearing maintenance. I felt a thud and saw my tire passing me. I had gone to Napa and they sold me the closest match to repack my bearings the week before.

I then replaced the axel and bought extra parts. Napa had an exact match and I have been able to buy new seals and regularly repack the bearings. No need to replace the race if the bearings are the right match. I wouldn't wait for the other to fail. Old grease is contaminated and should be replaced.


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## readNrun (Aug 1, 2013)

Gremlin said:


> I had a catastrophic failure with my trailer that made me very careful about bearing maintenance. I felt a thud and saw my tire passing me. I had gone to Napa and they sold me the closest match to repack my bearings the week before.
> 
> I then replaced the axel and bought extra parts. Napa had an exact match and I have been able to buy new seals and regularly repack the bearings. No need to replace the race if the bearings are the right match. I wouldn't wait for the other to fail. Old grease is contaminated and should be replaced.


The OP was actually started from the fact that I had grease coming out of the hub. Other than that, it spun freely, had almost no play in it and was without issue.

I decided to dig into it to see what was causing the grease to come out - something I still haven't figured out.


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## CROE (Jul 29, 2008)

My utility trailer with 15'' wheels is 5 years old and doing fine, I think..I put a few hundred miles a year on it...I have not touched the bearings, but don't get the wheels let alone axles in the water....what should I be doing for bearing maintenance and how to learn about it?? thanks, Chet


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## Paul7 (Aug 14, 2012)

CROE said:


> My utility trailer with 15'' wheels is 5 years old and doing fine, I think..I put a few hundred miles a year on it...I have not touched the bearings, but don't get the wheels let alone axles in the water....what should I be doing for bearing maintenance and how to learn about it?? thanks, Chet


Bearing maintenance is pretty easy lots of YouTube videos. Basically wash the bearings clean and repack. 

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## readNrun (Aug 1, 2013)

Final thoughts on the job:

I just wrapped it all up this weekend. To summarize, I pulled both hubs, took out the races and replaced the races, bearings & inside seal (castle nut and cotter pin too, but just because it came with the kit). So - notes on the job:



All bearings and races replaced were USA Temkin - seems like there is a difference between these and some roll-the-dice China made ones
Cleaned everything with degreaser & brake cleaner
Spent quality time packing the bearings
Hub spins freely with tire with no play in it (side to side)
Cleaned and replaced bearing buddy
There was substantial grease in the hub (between the bearings) that seemed due for removal - just putting more grease on with the bearing buddy wouldn't have solved this
Used quality marine grease for everything
If I were to do it again.....


They make new galvanized hubs with quality bearings (you can even get them pre-packed). I'd probably go this route as my wheels do get wet from time to time - but still, probably nothing close to seawater wet.


The whole experience gave me a much better understanding how it all works and I'm glad to have done it. The toughest part was getting the old cotter pin out as it was too big for the spindle and took close to 20 mins to get it pulled.

Takeaway: These parts are the life blood of your trailer. The wheels/bearings/hubs/tires are the most likely failure point so putting time into properly maintaining them is well worth it.


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