# Oars, oars, oars



## Randaddy (Jun 8, 2007)

So I need some advice, and as always, I am willing to listen to a bunch of homeless alcoholics. 

So I bought a mini-me and I'm getting a sweet little frame for it so I can roll solo or with a special lady (Yes, by special lady I mean labrador...) I need oars for this. I have heard that some people use 8' oars for the mini me. Anyone have any experience with this? Has anyone used the breakdown carlisle oars? My car is a shoe-box. Any frame/towers/locks advice for a little boat would be appreciated too.

Part deaux: I need oars for my Canyon trip. I will be buying a 15-16' boat, probably Hyside or NRS. How long do people like their oars? Is 9' a good length? How do you determine what is the right size?

Now here's the kicker: I want the oars I get for the mini-me to be my spares. So say I get 8' oars and put the 1' extenders on. This gives me 9' oars. What if I want longer? (or shorter oars for the mini-me?) So, you get the picture, I might find myself with spare oars that are breakdown with extensions on them. Is this a problem? I rowed Westy with extended oars last weekend, but I don't have any idea how long they were. They seemed pretty solid.

Any advice is welcome. Thanks!


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## mania (Oct 21, 2003)

The magic formula is roughly one third of our oar should be on the inside of the oarlock and two thirds on the outside. so it very much depends on the width of your frame and how far apart you like your handles when you row. other people have studied the physics of this and it works real well. don't f*ck with physics.


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## leery (May 16, 2005)

*my experience*

Go with the 9ers. I've got a 13' otter and went with the 8' oars originally and found myself standing up and missing strokes. The difference is huge. Plan on buying 3 oars for your rig, if your on an overnighter and something breaks you don't want to ruin your trip with one good oar and one bush league paddle. 

Here's the scenario, your thinking about how small your car is and how much easier it would be with smaller oars. Those oars may have to stick out the window when your driving down the road. It's worth it. 

While my understanding of physics is limited mostly to gravity, the stuff mania is saying is legit. 

If you don't believe it, get the smaller oars. Save the receipt.


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## the_dude (May 31, 2006)

nrs has fit lists, oar sizing guides, etc., on their website. might give that a shot.


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## caverdan (Aug 27, 2004)

I have 8' oars for my mini-mee. With my frame set up, they work great. The frame is narrow enough that any longer oars wear you out from the counter balance. What Mania is talking about holds true. How wide is your frame?


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## upshitscreek (Oct 21, 2007)

the other general rule of thumb is that a oar should be around 2/3 the length of your raft...

so a 9ft mini-me=

9 X .66 = 6ft (don't think carlisle makes them that short for the heavy duty ones and 8' sounds kinda huge to me for such a dinghy.:twisted: 

16 x .66= 10.5

and as mania say allot of this depends on width of your frame and boat. it's just an indicator. personal preference needs to be factored too. taller people like me tend to like longer oars vs. shorter folk liking shorter oars.

I run 11ft ers on my 16fter but I like long oars. For a big water run like the GC you may like them for their power and ability to give you a strong brace. Downside for some is they are heavy if you are a sally.

Also, the carlisle breakdown oars work fine. Are they great feeling oars? No but they get the job done. I use them cuz I do a fly out type trip at least once a year and they are perfect for that stuff where they need to fit in small planes,ect


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## TakemetotheRiver (Oct 4, 2007)

I was playing with a mini me last weekend on the Animas and the first thing I said was that I would prefer 9' oars. The ones that were on it were 8' and I felt like they weren't close enough and I couldn't get a lot of leverage in the water. 
ECJohnson would probably concur considering he may have had the inaugural flip on Smelter this year in the mini me on that run. 

Sorry Ethan-I couldn't resist.


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## Dave Frank (Oct 14, 2003)

Just say no to 8 foot oars. I'm no rafting expert, but length of the boat shouldn't matter nearly as much as frame width. Oars are for strength and leverage. If you put your handle such that you less than 1/3 to the inside, it really gets no leverage. I cant' imagine wanting less than a full 10 footer on a GC rig, so get 9s for the mm and extensions to make them into spares.

Keep your frame as wide as is practical. You don't want the oarlocks way out in space, bouncing off of rocks. A commonly overlooked spare item is the oar tower. if you flip in shallows expect to f*** them up. I keep meaning to kep 2 in my kit.


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## davecosnowboarder (Apr 25, 2007)

I ran into a guy on the upper c last week in a mini me he had 8 foot oars and said he thought they were to short and wished he had 9ers


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## EZ (Feb 10, 2004)

Go with 10' oars on the 16' raft. You will need two spares for the Grand Canyon, a total of four oars per boat. Be wary of putting on more than one extender. Get 8' oars for the Mini Me, put one foot extenders on them and use them as your GC spares. Chances are, with oar tethers, you will never need to use your spare oars in the Grand Canyon.

I agree with Dave Frank that oar locks and towers get bent pretty easily. I don't have a spare oar tower in my kit, but I always carry a spare oar lock.

Not sure what to say about the size of your car affecting the length of your oars.


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## Randaddy (Jun 8, 2007)

Thanks everybody! 

I think I'm going to get the 8 1/2 foot breakdown oars for the mini-me and see how they work. I don't want to be standing up the whole time, but I want to row narrow stuff with that little boat too. This fits the 1/3-2/3 rule with the blades sunk and a couple feet away from the boat. I'll try a few different lengths before my Canyon trip to find what I like for the big boat.


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## DanRauer (Jun 8, 2006)

I'll try to keep this short............

I have had this problem on several boats that I have had. I'll fill you in with the most recent problem. I was on a Grand trip this past March. I ran a large JPW cataraft that I just purchased using a frame I had before on a smaller cat (16') . On the small cat I ran 9' oars which were too short for the boat. To combat this I turned my oar towers in to make to feel like I had a shorter oar. This worked fine on the small boat. When I got the new boat I bought 10' oars thinking that that was the size I needed. So I left the towers turned in and setup the oars based on that. I would say that it was slightly less than 1/3 of my oar inside my locks, but I thought with the bigger oar and flex I would be ok. It was far from ok. For the first 80 miles I got my ass handed to me in nearly every rapid. I was rattled hard, and I don't really get rattled. At camp after a scary run through Sockdoglar I was sitting by the fire drinking away my nerves and being pretty silent thinking that tomorrow I'm going through Horn, Granite, Crystal you know. My bro asked me what was up so I told him that I was having problems controlling my boat and I thought I was facing disaster tomorrow. He says, you know to me it looks like your oars are not set up right and seem short on length inside the oar lock. I got up stumbled over to me boat to find that the dude was right and I really never noticed that. Then I figured that I could not take any worst lines than I already was, and change needed to happen right then. So, 80 miles in I completely changed my oar setup. Moved the towers out and slid the oars in and raised the seat. Sounds like a small adjustment, but it was not. The first stroke I took I could feel the power and the flex of the oar that I was not feeling before. For the rest of the trip I regained my confidence and started killing shit. Leverage is key. 

My point is that oar geometry is EVERYTHING when it comes to power. I would not guess and I would not rely on the NRS charts (they don't account for seat height). Borrow a set from someone else and see where it lands in the water. These guys are right in 1/3 the length in side the oar locks. Try to get the towers setup at the right height and get the right length oar so in the middle of your power stroke your hands are about nipple height. The higher your stoke, the less power. In my experience it is better to have a longer oar the a shorter oar. Try some on your boat before you spend $, that you will loose anyway when you realize that your oars are too short. 

Sorry this is so long, but this has been a problem for me for years and I just starting to figure out what feels "right".


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## laughing water (Apr 26, 2008)

*Stay away from Carlisle.*

I know, I know. You're all set up for Carlisle oars. Me, too. 
Last season I had to rescue a novice boater in our trip. He had gotten himself and his family into grave danger (Is there any other kind?). To effect the rescue I had to sacrifice my own boat into a rock wall. I am glad to say the outcome was good, all safe, and I was paid many cold beers for my services. But, the handle of my oar impacted the wall, snapped off and was given up to the river gods. 
When I contacted my local and, indeed, every national outfitter, I found that one can no longer purchase a $10 handle. 
:-( *JOHNSON OUTDOORS :-( *bought Carlisle and has discontinued selling the handle. They want you to buy a whole new $100 oar. They will soon discontinue selling the blade as well. Even though every outfitter in the U.S. has sold out of them (the market exists and the need is there!), you cannot buy the replacement parts for the Carlisle oars.
Look, instead, to  *CATARACT OARS  . *Cataract oars are strong, lightweight and, best of all, you can buy the component you need instead of being forced to purchase a whole, new system at ten times the cost. I have Cataracts as well and they sell a great product.

As for length. I find an 11' oar with an 8" blade on my 17' boat is ideal for big river running like the Green and the Colorado, but only in flat water. If I will be running any serious whitewater, I switch out to a shorter shaft and a narrower blade.
Bottom line. You have to find the oars that suit you. There is no mathmatical computation for a solution. 

*


Randaddy said:



So I

Click to expand...

*


Randaddy said:


> need some advice, and as always, I am willing to listen to a bunch of homeless alcoholics.
> 
> So I bought a mini-me and I'm getting a sweet little frame for it so I can roll solo or with a special lady (Yes, by special lady I mean labrador...) I need oars for this. I have heard that some people use 8' oars for the mini me. Anyone have any experience with this? Has anyone used the breakdown carlisle oars? My car is a shoe-box. Any frame/towers/locks advice for a little boat would be appreciated too.
> 
> ...


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## laughing water (Apr 26, 2008)

*Spare towers!*

You have a great point! I got a spare for my Speed-Rail frame. It breaks down to fit in my patch kit ammo-can. I got it before my last Grand trip. Everyone has spare oars, but if you (foul) up an oar tower on a wall or a rock or flipped in some shallows, you're up a stream of manure! You'll spend the next 20 days rowing with your oar strapped to your frame. That sucks! I know. Been there, done that in Westwater on another boat.



Dave Frank said:


> Just say no to 8 foot oars. I'm no rafting expert, but length of the boat shouldn't matter nearly as much as frame width. Oars are for strength and leverage. If you put your handle such that you less than 1/3 to the inside, it really gets no leverage. I cant' imagine wanting less than a full 10 footer on a GC rig, so get 9s for the mm and extensions to make them into spares.
> 
> Keep your frame as wide as is practical. You don't want the oarlocks way out in space, bouncing off of rocks. A commonly overlooked spare item is the oar tower. if you flip in shallows expect to f*** them up. I keep meaning to kep 2 in my kit.


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