# Lower Salmon Questions



## Bean77 (Aug 7, 2016)

My dad just got off the Lower Salmon today, and we also ran it the first week of August. He said it's the lowest he's ever been on it, and most of the rapids were a lot less fun and more about picking your way through the rocks. They didn't have to worry about finding camps every night, but he said he's done with the Lower Salmon this year until the flow comes back up.

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## Duce (Sep 5, 2011)

Well, the Rogue cfs is up as of late (over 2k in GP). Have you considered the lower Deschutes?


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## Paul7 (Aug 14, 2012)

There are some folks asking the same question on river rafters anonymous of Facebook. Might want to join the conversation there. 

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## shappattack (Jul 17, 2008)

Bean77's dad must not have been on the lower salmon much. The current flow is 3740 cfs at 9:30 pm Pacific time on the USGS Whitebird gage. Median flows for Aug 16 are about 5000. 25 percentile flow (75% exceedence) for Aug 16 is 3720. The 75% exceedence is a good rule of thumb for a somewhat dry year, not a drought and not all that uncommon. Basically you have a 75% chance of that flow being equaled or exceeded each year, or in other words about a 25% chance that it will be lower than 3740 in each year. Another simple way to think about it is that a flow this low has a chance of occurring at this time of year in about 1 of every 4 years. Low but statistically pretty common. I floated the lower salmon in mid august 2007 on a 1 boat trip and the daily flow ranged from 3150 to 3350 cfs on this trip. By no means skinny whatsoever and totally enjoyable, We passed a couple 20 foot ROW gear rafts. Some pics at 3200 cfs from 2007. Its a big river, even at real low water its plenty to take 20 foot rigs loaded full of custy crap. For reference, its about like asking if the lower Deschutes is ever too low to float a huge raft down. Dave, feel free to talk off line anytime.

I think there is a big difference in perception of what "picking your way through the rocks" means. I wouldn't characterize it that way at this flow, its still big and deep. 


























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We past these fine ladies on the trip in 2007, If they can get down easy at 3200 cfs you will be just fine:


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## codycleve (Mar 26, 2012)

Why not the upper salmon.. there is a permit open for almost every day right now.. we ran it at -28" last year.. 

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## shappattack (Jul 17, 2008)

codycleve said:


> Why not the upper salmon.. there is a permit open for almost every day right now.. we ran it at -28" last year..
> 
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That would be a better trip, but not sure the OP has the time, and it is a tad harder rowing for his inexperienced friend/family. 

Mostly a time issue I bet. From Seattle, it is a long way to Corn Creek, I did that drive once. Toting kids and reasonable stops for food and pee, it is a 12 hour drive at least. So really you might want at least 1 or 1.5 extra days just for travel. The shuttle fee is more than double per rig. Also the trip is a lot longer so more days on the river (a positive if you have the time, not so good if you have limited days). I agree though, if you could score a permit, all things being equal, its a way better on-river trip on the Main Salmon.


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## Rivertrash (Jul 15, 2011)

*Walking around Snowhole*

I am not positive, but I am pretty sure your passengers could walk around Snowhole rapid, preferably down the river left side. I have seen people about half way down the rapid on the left bank and assumed that is what they were doing, but I'm not sure. It looks like you could. That being said I doubt if you would need to. I have been down it a couple of times below 3,000 cfs, I think the lowest was around 2,600 cfs and it is very runnable in a 16 ft. boat. When it gets that low, you are moving through the drops/rapids pretty slowly and you have a lot of time to miss obstacles. Being with a green crew I would recommend that take your time and scout many of the rapids, and keep the boats of the less experienced boaters a little lighter. I personally think the fast cfs decline will slow a little, the nights are getting a little longer and cooler, I think you will have a great trip, and the rapids on the lower will definitely be a little easier to run at this level than the main. I have taken quite few pretty green rowers down this river and they have always done fine - a great place for them to cut some teeth if they are with a good crew.


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## Bean77 (Aug 7, 2016)

@ shappattack: We usually run it in July to mid-August, so just used to it at higher flows than 4000. I think he just prefers the slightly higher flows, not that it's unrunnable. Nice to know it's still good at 3100 as I'd like to do a September trip this year  

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## dirtbagkayaker (Oct 29, 2008)

The lower rarely gets this low. I don't think it will get too much lower. Kids can walk around snowhole. Pine bar will be the biggest hit! If your in a 14' or bigger boat you'll need to try hard to put in wrong side up.


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## shappattack (Jul 17, 2008)

dirtbagkayaker said:


> The lower rarely gets this low.


 
The data does not support this statement. Daily mean flows for the USGS at Whitebird gage can be reviewed here and the record goes back to 1910:

USGS Current Conditions for USGS 13317000 SALMON RIVER AT WHITE BIRD ID

Lets take a look at the month of August and specifically today's date of August 17 for the prior 20 years, 1997 to 2006. The instantaneous flow right now is 3710 cfs at 3:45 pm pacific time.

The meain daily flow was essentially at this level or lower in 10 of the last 20 years (counting this year), not rare, in fact it is as common as a much higher flow (i.e. 50% of the years in the last 20 were at this same level or lower this time of year).

Mean daily flow on Aug 17 for years that were essentially the same as todays flow (on a side note, it is mathematically interesting that the mean daily flow on Aug 17 in 2013 and 2015 was the same):


year mean daily flow (cfs)
2000 = 3390
2001 = 2840
2002 = 3570
2003 = 3720
2004 = 3570
2005 = 3700
2007 = 3160
2013 = 3460
2015 = 3460


If you were a boater on the lower salmon in the prior decade, this low flow was in fact the norm and not unusual at all, with the majority of years being this low or lower. It is the high flows in between 2007 and 2013 that has likely skewed your minds-eye to thinking these flow flows are rare.


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## Paul7 (Aug 14, 2012)

I'd be more worried about snakes while portaging than Snow hole rapid itself. 

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## dirtbagkayaker (Oct 29, 2008)

Shipp.. O my goddddd! you are sooooo right. It gets this low for a month or so every year. Thats like all the fucking time. Its ALLWAYS this low. How could I be so wrong????


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## davbaker (Aug 4, 2013)

Once again great advice from the buzzards! It's good to hear from some of you who have run the Lower this low - I do not think we will have a problem but we will spend lots of time scouting. In terms of running the Lower versus the Main - I have my sights on the Main for next summer! I chose the Lower (after much advice from buzzards) as a good river to take some relatively green boaters on, and a great family trip. We are great friends with this family (and the kids are all good friends) - I am hoping this trip will plant some seeds and get them into the sport! If so, I have my sights on the Main for next year!

I definitely do not want the kids to walk Snow Hole (and my kids would be pissed if I made them). However, I think it may calm some nerves for the newbies if they feel there is at least an option if they feel in over there heads.

Thanks again!

Dave


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## shappattack (Jul 17, 2008)

dirtbagkayaker said:


> Shipp.. O my goddddd! you are sooooo right. It gets this low for a month or so every year. Thats like all the fucking time. Its ALLWAYS this low. How could I be so wrong????


 pardon me if I misunderstood your original statement that it rarely gets this low. I thought you meant it rarely gets this low in August, not it rarely gets this low during the entire year. Hard to read your mind.

The information is still handy, the flows occurring now are not unusual for this time of year, and the Salmon is always easily boatable at low flows with a standard sized raft with all the comforts.


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## dirtbagkayaker (Oct 29, 2008)

Shipp, I live 20 minutes from the Lower. I ran it monday and tuesday. There aint a whole lot of difference between 3700 and 3000. I've run that streach 5 to 10 times a year. I'm hear to tell you that running wise it don't get much lower even if the gage drops to 3200. The river does not change much at these flows. And it don't get much lower


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## shappattack (Jul 17, 2008)

dirtbagkayaker said:


> I'm hear to tell you that running wise it don't get much lower even if the gage drops to 3200. The river does not change much at these flows. And it don't get much lower


Sweet, we agree on something


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## Paul7 (Aug 14, 2012)

I see lots of posts saying the main is never too low, wouldn't the lower be the same? 

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