# Am I ready for Class V?



## tskoe23 (Jun 19, 2010)

Hi, I am a 2nd year boater. I know this sounds bad but let me finish. I have a bomber roll, on and off side and hand rolls on both sides. I am extremely confident in all of them. I have ran Westwater and the Numbers and didn't feel challenged on either of them. I have a creek boat and I feel like I am ready to go. What do you guys think?


----------



## tskoe23 (Jun 19, 2010)

also what are some good runs to step it up?


----------



## BarryDingle (Mar 13, 2008)

Westwater's class III


----------



## wildh2onriver (Jul 21, 2009)

tskoe23 said:


> also what are some good runs to step it up?


I think your're ready for the Grand Canyon of the Stikine or the Acobamba Abyss.


----------



## wildh2onriver (Jul 21, 2009)

tskoe23 said:


> also what are some good runs to step it up?


I think your're ready for the Grand Canyon of the Stikine or the Acobamba Abyss.


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 26, 2006)

Try boating some harder runs, when you are not head ruddering your way down then try something harder. Class 5 has a lot of places where you don't want to be on your head. Try harder moves on easier runs to improve your abilities


----------



## tskoe23 (Jun 19, 2010)

tj, I've already been trying harder moves on easier runs and I have a strong brace. What are some good class 4 or 4 plus runs then?


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 26, 2006)

In durango it is hard to make the transition to class 5 but I like the 3rd gorge of lime creek as a good class 4/+ run but rockwood might be a bit scary for a class 4 boater. maybe the upper a at low flows. caslte creek/slaughter house are good near aspen. clear creek of the ark is a good into to creeking that is 4/+ at 300. upper east is class 4 and daisy is 4+/5-. There are a ton of great 4/4+ runs that I am brain farting on right now. I'm not trying to discourage you but class 5 is dangerous, some people try to step it up to fast (myself included) and get worked. I would rather swim all of the numbers than swim a class 5 rapid. Be safe and have fun, try to find a crew that is running a bit harder stuff than you and watch and learn from them and their technique.


----------



## leif (Jul 11, 2009)

Don't listen to tom. He hates because he doesn't know how to roll. What area are you in? Some good stepping stones might be (in no particular order) shoshone, poudre narrows, gore, numbers/fractions/pine creek, clear creek. Some of those are a lot harder than others, and of course you don't want to do any of them alone. Your best bet is to just make friends with a sick boater and get them to guide you down some stuff.

Also, once your local run gets too easy, invent more difficult moves to challenge yourself. Your best preparation is probably playboating, though. The main reason tom is so bad at kayaking is because he never playboats.


----------



## leif (Jul 11, 2009)

Ok actually I agree with most of what tom just said. Especially upper east, at low water.


----------



## tskoe23 (Jun 19, 2010)

thanks guys, i got some good boaters to run with who are competent. leif i am a pretty good play boater as it is. thanks for all the advice guys.


----------



## Mut (Dec 2, 2004)

Lief's point about finding someone to guide you down is good advice. Be sure you have a good crew that realizes you are stepping it up. 

Use your own judgement. There are plenty of boaters who have stepped it up to Class V in their second season. Just keep in mind that you are still green and you could die if you fuck it up.

But if you remember that you could die then hopefully you will also remember to be extra careful, use common sense and use safety. If you do those things you shouldn't die.


----------



## elcamino (Sep 8, 2009)

I think you'll know when you're ready. How high did you run the #s? Can you make hard ferries/ eddies/ lines in class 4 every single time? Do you have a good boof? How much class 4 have you paddled? Remember that making it down class 3/4 is different than running it capably and confidently. The way I learned was to find a big intimidating rapid, preferably with a pool after it, and with minimal consequences other than a beatdown, and practice the hardest lines I could down it. Be patient learning and don't push for class V before it's time.


----------



## Claytonious (Jan 17, 2008)

tskoe23 said:


> Hi, I am a 2nd year boater. I know this sounds bad but let me finish. I have a bomber roll, on and off side and hand rolls on both sides. I am extremely confident in all of them. I have ran Westwater and the Numbers and didn't feel challenged on either of them. I have a creek boat and I feel like I am ready to go. What do you guys think?


Class V? Probably not yet. The numbers is barely above class three, and relatively safe. I would stay away from any runs that are truly class five until you spend a season running some class four. Remember that it is not only the difficulty of a run that matters but the consequences of messing up.

With that being said, it is a great year to get out on some runs that would normally be class five, but because of low water are now in the class four range. 

Also, I am kind of a pussy, so don't take my word for it. Go run a few solid class fours and if you are still bored then step it up.

Also, if you were ready for class five you would probably already be boating with class five paddlers and you could ask them if you were ready.

OK, I am going to get back to not kayaking now.


----------



## deepsouthpaddler (Apr 14, 2004)

No, you aren't ready for class V. Sounds like you are ready for class IV. Don't ask TJ for class IV runs, because 50 ft'ers in Cali are class III in his book. You'd be better off busting a season of class IV before attempting some IV+/V- runs like gore or Bailey. You wouldn't be the first gung-ho newbie to go too fast too soon, but you should know that the failure rate is way higher when you go too fast. Get a guide book and tick off all the class IV runs within driving distance and then step it up if it feels right.


----------



## DES (Apr 9, 2006)

Got to find the balance between confidence and experience 1st; sounds like you have the confidence, but certainly not the experience. This could potentially lead to a dangerous incident (or deadly, for you or your rescuers). I feel you though. Chompin' at the bit and all. My humble suggestion: you shouldn't be in a hurry. If you plan on paddling for a while, then whats the rush? Just check yourself, or you may get served (knock on wood).


----------



## mrkyak (Jul 11, 2005)

My second year boating I kayaked the Grand and did the Gore race. Just go for it you'll know if your out of your element when it happens.


----------



## Skillkilla (Mar 29, 2011)

did some solid fours last season when levels were ragin, ready to make that transistion myself but levels arent cooperating ! headin to paddlefest this weekend - some five light runnin up there. bailey runs at 5 mosta the time -try comin up for baileyfest. might be headin your way soon- slim pickins up here.


----------



## yakr (Apr 30, 2010)

I don't think asking a bunch of strangers in a chat room on the interwebs is the best place to find out. It sounds like you have plenty of confidence in your skills, so have a solid class V boater FOLLOW (not lead) you down a IV or IV+ and see what he thinks. How long you have been boating doesn't really mean anything. It's about the experience not the time, and the two are not the same.


----------



## pretender (Dec 23, 2008)

*besides your boof, roll, ferry, eddy turn how's the...*

rescue skills? An often overlooked but necessary skill for class 4/5 boating


----------



## glenn (May 13, 2009)

Do you have a V crew? If not then you aren't ready. If you do then you wouldn't be asking MBuzz. All the pieces have to come together skills, mindset, crew, safety skills and gear.


----------



## tskoe23 (Jun 19, 2010)

I am swift water trained. From you guys advice I think I'm going to fire up some 4 and 4 plus run here soon with a good crew. Im a strong paddler and I do agree that I need experience I know what I'm comfortable with and what I'm not. Upper a is close and sounds like a good step up


----------



## KSC (Oct 22, 2003)

So the question is: "I'm solid in class III, should I move up to class V?". Move up incrementally, not just through the full steps, but also through the partial steps, class III+, IV-, IV, IV+, V-, V, etc. Don't cheat either. Lots of people seem to declare themselves class IV boaters because they ran the numbers at 600 cfs. Run the #s at 2500 cfs and eddy hop your way down all the rapids, and then you can call yourself a class IV boater.

It's silly to be impatient, esp. as a second year boater, unless you're terminally ill or something and then you might want to push it.


----------



## lmyers (Jun 10, 2008)

Many class IV runs - Bailey, Lower South Boulder, etc. have class V rapids on them. It is much better to step up to a more difficult rapid on a run you are comfortable with then to jump into an entire run that's over your head.


----------



## gannon_w (Jun 27, 2006)

I'd also like to add that when I hear someone say they are a class V boater it means they consistently run and play on class V. I've ran a few class Vs and consistently play around on class IV and never had a bad line on any of them I wasn't screwing around on...but I only say I'm a IV+ boater.

Don't get caught up in being a class? Boater...most boaters are much more impressed if you say you've styled the big south or barrel springs or black rock versus saying you're a class whatever boater.

So develop the skills to run what you want to!


----------



## Ben.B (May 20, 2011)

Yeah just because you've run the numbers, doesn't mean you're ready for class V. Someone said "just go do it and find out". Thats terrible advice, you could endanger yourself AND the guys you're with. 

If you want to step it up, go run Bailey. It's a class IV creek with three Class V rapids and if you're feelin good, you could probably run the third one (deer creek rapid). The class IV on that run is really fun (especially the steeps) and its a beautiful canyon. 

take your time man, no need to be a hero


----------



## yak1 (Jan 28, 2006)

If ya gotta ask you ain't ready boy


----------



## DanOrion (Jun 8, 2004)

This blew up faster than a turkey leg. All the advice in here is good. There really isn't much Class IV this season to test your abilities on. 

With the current flows, try eddy-hopping Pine Creek rapid on the Ark. Nail the boof on the left a few times. Feeling good on that? Hook up with a competent Gore crew later this summer when flows rise and give'r a go. Walk Gore rapid for the first time out of respect and because a swim there is a huge pain in the ass for everyone involved.


----------



## Canada (Oct 24, 2006)

yak 1 summed it up. If you have to ask, then you would probably benefit from more time in IV. Once IV gets easy and more about play than avoidance, then the progression will occur naturally.


----------



## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

Read the book Deep Survival, and get some more experience. This advice from a catboater who stepped into Class V stuff pretty fast, and I consider myself lucky to not have gotten hurt. Now I work hard on gaining experience, getting "nearly" in trouble and making sure I've developed the muscle memory to deal with situations without even thinking about it. 

Did anyone say that you should start running lines that you don't want to run on your "normal" runs? Is there a line in a rapid that you usually avoid? Hit it, find out what happens, come out clean.


----------



## Crazy Nate (Aug 29, 2008)

First of all what level did you run the numbers at and how many times? Once at 1,000 cfs should not be a confidence booster. Class V has a lot more depth than any other class. Before you even think about class V you should have at least 80 class IV runs with half of those being at high flows. To be a true class V aficionado you need at least 500 days on the river. If you make it 500 days while continuously improving, your psyche and skills can handle running the shit that is class V. You sound confident. If you've put in the time go run some entry level class V and prove it.


----------



## caspermike (Mar 9, 2007)

Give er


----------



## MountainLove270 (Jul 11, 2011)

*Intro to Class V*

Having it all come together is the best advice ever, as is practicing advanced skills on easier runs.

The other day, I went for a hike with my mother whom goes quite slow while I generally power ahead with strength and endurance.

Second nature practically I picked up on only stepping on the tops of rocks on the trail. Figured it would be a great way to get a good sense of balance & fit, acquainting with the dimensions of my new Scarpa boots. Upping your skill level is a lot like this on easier runs... gradually, you become highly familiar, focused & comfortable on these runs. This progression leads to improved comfort and clarity, putting into proportion all the skills required & features of a rapid. Through beyond this improvement, you'll realize practically second nature the tremendous opportunity for growth and learning simply by picking up on what else is there. This not only ups your skills but is a challenge while fine-tuning river-reading ability. Your desire to push yourself may also help to tone down the skills & on-river awareness. Continued experience improving through a natural progression taking on advanced moves up into Class IV really may be the best advice for your paddling.

I second all the recommended runs. Upper East, Clear Creek of the Ark, Bailey, Gore, & Castle Creek/Slaughter House, are good ways to go while continued practice will help you in taking on what upcoming rapids will present.


----------



## FLOWTORCH (Mar 5, 2004)

I would just like to post in this thread to validate my classV experience.


----------



## JCKeck1 (Oct 28, 2003)

FLOWTORCH said:


> I would just like to post in this thread to validate my classV experience.


Oooh, me too. I have class V experience. Even dropped a brown stout claw the other day. Working my way up to a fiddler grab...
Joe


----------



## smauk2 (Jun 24, 2009)

What you need to do is increase your post count. Being on the water is over-rated. In all seriousness run more class 4 and runs with 5- rapids on them.


----------



## Crazy Nate (Aug 29, 2008)

Class IV is over rated...just follow somebody you don't know into Pandora's...nothing like doing it your first time blind with a stranger...hey little boy want some candy...validation complete...now wheres my medication...


----------



## JDHOG72 (Jul 18, 2007)

Crazy Nate said:


> Class IV is over rated...just follow somebody you don't know into Pandora's...nothing like doing it your first time blind with a stranger...hey little boy want some candy...validation complete...now wheres my medication...


Slowly step away from the computer


----------



## Crazy Nate (Aug 29, 2008)

...are you following me right now...


----------



## Mut (Dec 2, 2004)

Crazy Nate,
I don't know you. But we could be friends.

This thread is bullshit. Of course the guy is ready. We live in such a goddamn nanny state. 

Go fire that shit!


----------



## JP Griffith (Sep 7, 2010)

Solo boating burly class 5 will let you know if you are really ready for class 5... Charge hard!!!!


----------



## Cheyenne (Oct 14, 2003)

For Class II - have a solid wet exit
For Class III - have a solid swim
For Class IV - have a solid roll
For Class V - have a solid brace


----------



## Phil U. (Feb 7, 2009)

tskoe23 said:


> Hi, I am a 2nd year boater. I know this sounds bad but let me finish. I have a bomber roll, on and off side and hand rolls on both sides. I am extremely confident in all of them. I have ran Westwater and the Numbers and didn't feel challenged on either of them. I have a creek boat and I feel like I am ready to go. What do you guys think?


This thread is a good start, but bottom line, you gotta get your post count up and you gotta start talkin trash. All class 5 boaters learn to talk and then progress to running the goods. Oh, and a mullet would help.


----------



## chepora (Feb 6, 2008)

Run numbers and slaughterhouse a few times at high water, then hit Gore canyon up. Walk Gore rapid (if you want) and maybe Tunnel. Have fun!


----------



## chrispy (Apr 6, 2004)

How close are you to the m wave?....that's class five


----------



## marko (Feb 25, 2004)

tskoe23 said:


> Hi, I am a 2nd year boater. I know this sounds bad but let me finish. I have a bomber roll, on and off side and hand rolls on both sides. I am extremely confident in all of them. I have ran Westwater and the Numbers and didn't feel challenged on either of them. I have a creek boat and I feel like I am ready to go. What do you guys think?



No.


----------



## adgeiser (May 26, 2009)

all of these post are good advice....

but the true barometer is your brown claw skills,
do you routinely through the brown claw when you pass other boaters on the road?
how about after, or even better, while you are running the crux rapid of the run?
do you throw it for your buddies after they have just launched a sick boof?
or after you launched that boof?
are you throwing it in a minimum of 63% of the photos taken with your kayak buddies? (this question scores you double points)
how about after you just flipped.... but before you roll up?

there are more of course but we find that if you answered yes to 4 out of these core 6, then you are either ready or very close.


........(insert brown claw here)


----------



## pem27 (May 5, 2011)

Rather than sift through all the bullshit on this thread go paddle...


----------



## caseybailey (Mar 11, 2008)

Boat whatever you'd be comfortable swimming.


----------



## Flying_Spaghetti_Monster (Jun 3, 2010)

I was running Class V my second year, but I was charging pretty hard, and working on skills that would help me. If you have not taking a kayaking coarse I suggest you do so. I three day skills clinic changed the way I looked at rivers, and spiked my progression. I am now a Level IV kayak instructor, and still work on technique every day. You need to learn alot before dropping into a Class V. Class V is also such a large spectrum that one Class V may not be like another. You may style one, and die in the next. With that being said start working on hard Class IV's first. Take a Swift Water Rescue coarse, and a kayak skills clinic at the least.


----------

