# mf boundary creek road.



## carvedog

So this looks to be Banner Summit, not the Boundary Creek turnoff?? 

Just to be clear.


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## WyoPadlr1

carvedog said:


> So this looks to be Banner Summit, not the Boundary Creek turnoff??
> 
> Just to be clear.


My thoughts exactly, too. Be nice to see pic of turnoff to B.C., although another guide over there said the report coming out of the trees is that there is still 4ft + on most of the road, and 3 slide paths of considerably more depth. Sounds like a little midnight "assisted melting" might have to occur.


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## idahoriverguide

Yeah that's banner. Bc is covered as well. I highly doubt it will be open soon. You're all more then welcome to go in and shovel. Our first trip is flying in at this point.


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## WyoPadlr1

idahoriverguide said:


> Yeah that's banner. Bc is covered as well. I highly doubt it will be open soon. You're all more then welcome to go in and shovel. Our first trip is flying in at this point.


When's your first launch? We have a June 13 permit, and are just keeping our fingers crossed everything melts out at this point. We would probably not fly in nor run Marsh, especially if Dagger is still log-clogged by then.


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## idahoriverguide

I think it will be open by the 13th for sure, I'd venture a guess that it will be open by the 9th or so.


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## idahoriverguide

Here is the b.c. road as of this morning.


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## carvedog

thanks IRG for the update photo. That looks a lot better than one I saw about a week ago. Another night of no freeze at the Banner snotel too. Looking good.


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## WyoPadlr1

Just got back from a cold, rainy/snowy self-support on the W.Fork Bruneau/Bruneau and looked at the MiFork guage for while we were gone..... wow, unusual to see it dropping over 4 days in late May like that. Any new news on the road????? Still hoping to get in there on June 12 for a 13th launch.


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## idahoriverguide

Just drove by the road yesterday, not much has changed, it's still freezing at night. Still looks the same as the pic I posted a couple days ago. 4ft on Banner-


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## WyoPadlr1

idahoriverguide said:


> Just drove by the road yesterday, not much has changed, it's still freezing at night. Still looks the same as the pic I posted a couple days ago. 4ft on Banner-


Thanks. Nice to have eyes/ears over there in a year like this. Am guessing we might be screwed unless we step up for Marsh Creek, which is unlikely. Even if the road opens, river will probably be rising/peaking right about launch day.......


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## idahoriverguide

The issue is marsh is low and rocky with a portage.


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## Hap_

Thanks for the info and pics.
I've lost hope they'll get it open before the 8th.


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## WyoPadlr1

idahoriverguide said:


> The issue is marsh is low and rocky with a portage.


Yeah, that's what we keep hearing. The portage at Dagger is the real deal-killer. That, and having to go super-light and pay to have stuff flown in to Indian Creek. Trip was already on a super-tight budget to begin with.


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## carvedog

No freeze last night on Banner and 50 degrees at 8 am. Lets get some melting done.

I went outside at 10pm last night in Bellevue ( about 60 miles south of Stanely) and told her it was still 60. Truth is it was 58 but still very warm for that time of evening. She thought I was lying. 
Not quite up in the hills but still 5200 feet elevation. 

That's all I have.

I lied. Historically the most melt I have seen on the Banner gauge is about 1.5 inches per day on the SWE. We still have 21 something at the snotel site for SWE. So it would seem unlikely but who knows. I have driven to the put in with about 5 inches left on the SWE. Yes I got stuck once but not too bad. 

Hearing lots of rumors, that I won't repeat, but I will add there are some who are trying to get the road open. there are limitations to what the commercial folks can do relative to 'permitted' activities on the forest. 

What I am hearing is that those same restrictions may not apply to private boaters, but anythingn further would just be speculation right now.


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## FatmanZ

Will there be enough warm weather to keep things melting? 10 day forecast for Stanley shows low temps and rain/snow for this week, mid to high 60's Sat-Mon, then dropping back down to mid 50's with high chance of rain through the following Friday.


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## carvedog

FatmanZ said:


> Will there be enough warm weather to keep things melting? 10 day forecast for Stanley shows low temps and rain/snow for this week, mid to high 60's Sat-Mon, then dropping back down to mid 50's with high chance of rain through the following Friday.



This is the one I use. 70s over the weekend?? i sure hope so.

Stanley, ID 83278 Month Weather Report - AccuWeather.com

Lows in the high 30s in Stanley is a good thing too. Just enough clouds to keep the heat from the day in and keep the melt going.

I sent an email, I thought. I will check it later.


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## lhowemt

Someone just sent me this amazing weather link:

10-Day Meteorological Forecasts Used In NWRFC Hydrologic Models


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## lhowemt

Marsh isn't too low or rocky, but it is technical and there's the fish trap and one lowish bridge. This year at 5.3' it was a dream, last year at about 3.8' it was a pain in the ass. We had to put in on Cape Horn Cr which included about a 300 yd drag of boats across snow and then launch on a creek about 2 boats wide and not much more than 12 inches of water. Then under a low bridge. I'd hate to think of the portage you'd be doing at high water to avoid the low bridge. I wouldn't say it's a good year to do Marsh where no one in the group has previously done it. It's nice to know where Sluicebox is.

The portage at Dagger was definitely a lot of work. But. We had 10 cats and 9 people to do it. We portaged for about 2.5-3 hours the first night, and got all the gear and half the boats over (gear to the campsites of course). The next morning we finished the boats and gear and rigged and were gone by maybe noon at the latest. If you have passengers without boats that can help it might be easier. However our cats are pretty light and 4 could do it with lots of stops, 6 people was much much easier. Some of the path was skinny and we had to carry from within our frames, carrying a raft would be tough (branches, trees, rocks, etc blocking an outside carry). Putting them in would also be tough with rafts, we carried a bit on the path (within frames) and then lined them down to the eddy where we could rig. I heard others rigged their rafts upstream and lined them completely down.


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## Aroberts

I have a early/mid June trip so I'm not very optimistic at this point. Can a private group legally plow/dig thier way in? 

With all the cash the state of Idaho, outfitters, shuttlers, etc are missing out on you would think there would be a solution other than sit and wait.


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## carvedog

Aroberts said:


> so I'm not very optimistic at this point.


 you gonna have to work on that. I melted the road one year with sheer optimism. Truly. But I have also been down Marsh Crick several times. 




Aroberts said:


> With all the cash the state of Idaho, outfitters, shuttlers, etc are missing out on you would think there would be a solution other than sit and wait.


There is another solution, two of them. One is called Marsh Creek and the other is called Indian Creek. The commercial back country pilots would love to fly you in to Indian if Marsh Creek is a deal breaker.


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## Aroberts

carvedog said:


> you gonna have to work on that. I melted the road one year with sheer optimism. Truly. But I have also been down Marsh Crick several times.
> 
> There is another solution, two of them. One is called Marsh Creek and the other is called Indian Creek. The commercial back country pilots would love to fly you in to Indian if Marsh Creek is a deal breaker.


I'll work on the optimism 

I've been down Marsh but it's a deal breaker for some in my group. Flying into Indian Creek isn't very appealing as well. I was just curious if its legal for private parties to plow/dig thier way in and if that ever happens.


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## Hap_

This is only the notion of an Appalachian boater, but has anyone ever given any thought to dragging gear up there with cats? Seems lucrative to me. A cat train can move a ton of stuff, and riders could kick it and sip beer on the way like the old beloved Glen Miller shuttle.


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## catboatkeith

Anybody know a person who has a truck/van with snotracks still mounted on it. Not sure how well a cat train would work on a down hill section though.


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## lhowemt

I once heard of people rigging their catboat frames onto skis, and then having them towed in with snowmobiles. A raft frame would be a bit harder, but probably doable.

From what I recall last year, the road stays closed to all vehicles because the FS wants the road to dry out and not get damaged/rutted. Something about protecting the resource. Privates were threatened with legal action if they disregarded the closure. A snowcat (or tracks) would probably tear the crap out of the road, while a snowmobile might be less of a footprint (and with more options).


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## idahoriverguide

The deal with outfitters is the fs makes them jump through so many hoops its crazy. All the 7 outfitters launching in the next week are flying in. 

You can go in and open the road. All I can tell you is there is more snow then you know, more this late then I've ever seen.16-24 inches 50 yards from the road. Plus the avalanche a mile away is huge, I've dug through it when it was 9' deep, its deeper now. 

There are no options with people in town to take you by cat. Plus boundary ramp is dry as a bone. 

As well I can report that the log after dagger is gone! That's from the fs just the other day. 

If you don't want to fly then go through marsh. It's not high right now and on the safer side. I will tell you that if it gets big stay away, I've gone in there on a recovery before and its crazy. Right now I don't think it will get big and I don't think the middle will get over 7 either. It should hold at 6 for a while when it starts to melt.

Don't like the fact that the fs won't plow the road? Don't bitch on here call them and tell them its crazy the won't allow you access to YOUR river. They make outfitters get a bond, and get all sorts of stuff approved by the higher ups in the fs. It's a timely and costly process. If you know anything about outfitters they don't like to spend money, so by them flying in that means its too much of a hassle to get the fs to help. 

I know what the weather says and I'm here in the snow, its cold and night and its not melting at night so it might be a few more days before it opens.


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## Aroberts

idahoriverguide said:


> The deal with outfitters is the fs makes them jump through so many hoops its crazy. All the 7 outfitters launching in the next week are flying in.
> 
> You can go in and open the road. All I can tell you is there is more snow then you know, more this late then I've ever seen.16-24 inches 50 yards from the road. Plus the avalanche a mile away is huge, I've dug through it when it was 9' deep, its deeper now.
> 
> There are no options with people in town to take you by cat. Plus boundary ramp is dry as a bone.
> 
> As well I can report that the log after dagger is gone! That's from the fs just the other day.
> 
> If you don't want to fly then go through marsh. It's not high right now and on the safer side. I will tell you that if it gets big stay away, I've gone in there on a recovery before and its crazy. Right now I don't think it will get big and I don't think the middle will get over 7 either. It should hold at 6 for a while when it starts to melt.
> 
> Don't like the fact that the fs won't plow the road? Don't bitch on here call them and tell them its crazy the won't allow you access to YOUR river. They make outfitters get a bond, and get all sorts of stuff approved by the higher ups in the fs. It's a timely and costly process. If you know anything about outfitters they don't like to spend money, so by them flying in that means its too much of a hassle to get the fs to help.
> 
> I know what the weather says and I'm here in the snow, its cold and night and its not melting at night so it might be a few more days before it opens.


That was exactly what I was looking for
Thanks


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## ridecats

I've been tracking this, as I too have a horse in the race. Some of the recent weather forecasts for Stanley have been: High, 40, Low, 19, rain. IMHO, not so special to play in all day long and then camp in, even if you could use the road. Wondering where the river level will get to if it gets even moderately warm?


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## lhowemt

MobileMe Gallery

Photos from a recent overflight. The road looks pretty darn snowed it, but I think the tree is Dagger looks gone.


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## catboatkeith

Saw these on the IWG Yahoo. Been fretting all day.


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## WyoPadlr1

lhowemt said:


> MobileMe Gallery
> 
> Photos from a recent overflight. The road looks pretty darn snowed it, but I think the tree is Dagger looks gone.


Thanks for posting these. This helps a lot. Looks like it's the Owyhee for us.


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## cmike1

Hap_ said:


> This is only the notion of an Appalachian boater, but has anyone ever given any thought to dragging gear up there with cats? Seems lucrative to me. A cat train can move a ton of stuff, and riders could kick it and sip beer on the way like the old beloved Glen Miller shuttle.


The problem with that is this time of year roads are usually not entirely covered with a uniform layer of snow. There may be lengths with drifts many feet deep and extended sections that have no snow that are either mud pits or totally dry. A cat would tear the crap out of a muddy road not to mention what would happen to whatever it was towing when it got dragged through the muck. 

As painful as it is to wait, it's best to wait for nature to take it's course


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## Hap_

I knew there had to be at least a dozen reasons why that was a bad idea, or somebody would have been doing it.


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## fiya79

how about an ATV with track conversions. those things can do dry, snow and muck without much damage.


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## catboatkeith

I'm giving up hope on June11th Boundary launch


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## idahoriverguide

Here is the road today. Someone drove it with chains. I do not know how far they made it, my guess is the slide. This is a great sign, its going to help the melt. I would guess a few more days and the road will open.


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## carvedog

Thanks IRG. That's looking a lot better.


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## BDPADDLE

Yes, thank you for the updates!!! Looks like we will be in luck for our June 21st launch, maybe too lucky if the flow is more than we want... might be HUGE!


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## MountainMedic

catboatkeith said:


> I'm giving up hope on June11th Boundary launch


Same boat, plan B has been activated.....


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## lmaciag

This was just sent out to the YahooGroup "idahowhitewater." Not my post, just thought I'd share.
________________________________________________________________


*[idahowhitewater] Why the Boundary Cr. road is not open*

Wednesday, June 8, 2011 11:01 AM



From: 
"Birddog" <[email protected]>




To: 
[email protected]




The Forrest Service won't issue a permit to River Outfitters to plow the road this year. 

Here is my understanding:

The FS has completely changed their requirements this year and have come up with reasons why they won't issue a permit and requirements that hinder outfitters from plowing the road.

Historically outfitters have put up a $1,000.00 bond with the FS in order to obtain a permit, then paid to have someone from Stanley or Hailey punch through the deep spots. Cutting a single lane has always worked in the past - the dirt road radiates heat and within a few days the snow melts back on both lanes. Have you ever driven on a one lane road at any point in your life? You stop, look for oncoming traffic and proceed slowly, right? It works. 

This year the FS won't issue a permit unless both lanes are completely cleared for "safety reasons." I think a safety flagger was suggested at one point - like at road construction sites. Really?

Even if multiple outfitters pitch in to pay to have both lanes opened (there are seven outfitters with trips next week who are willing to pay and actively asking for a permit) the FS won't let anyone drive on the road until the FS road engineer inspects the work. To me, it sounds like they want their spring road maintenance costs covered by someone else....

One of the more recent FS block-out rationales is that if the road is opened there still won't be anyone at Boundary to check for the quagga mussel stickers. All outfitters have the stickers (for boats that never even leave the state, but just make circles all summer on the MF), so is the FS actually worried about privates not having the stickers? What about all the folks launching on Marsh Creek right now? Who's checking them? Right.....

It cost one outfitter $2600 to fly into Indian Creek last week (good for http://sawtoothflying.com) - that same outfitter contributes about $18,000/ year to the FS in user access fees! ($4/person/day + 3% of gross) 

Last week was a 4 day trip. With six day trips starting next week, and the water cranking along at six feet, those are going to be 5 minute days on the water (I hope you understanding that is an exaggeration - but not by much) and camp sites could get jammed up - in other words the FS is intentionally jamming together groups that would otherwise be spread out across the entire 100 miles.

With the road currently closed, more private boaters are going to be motivated to use Marsh Creek - remember a few years back when there were a couple deaths on Marsh Creek?

My personal opinion is that the FS is not issuing a road plowing permit largely for the same reason that they decided not to re-issue August cancelations to privates - they don't want people to access the river.*

The FS can't dangle a private boater's livelihood or job over their heads like they can with outfitters and guides. If you are a private boater and you have a June launch date, and you want to launch at Boundary Cr., why don't you just get together with other private groups and just go cut in a single lane after 5p.m. like a group of Colorado boaters have done the last couple of years? Just like the no reissuing of August cancellations, this is something that many privates boaters and outfitters can agree is a crock of sh... oh, wait better keep this a "G" rated forum. 

Life is Grand!

A
http://www.wildsalmon.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=348&Itemid=63
watch ex-Middle Fork Guide Jim Norton's eye-opening film:
http://video.pbs.org/video/1891112523/

*The reason I think that the cancellation re-issuing question is only partially about Salmon is because the biologist calling for the new rule admitted that the 4 lower snake dams are the actual problem preventing Idaho Salmon from recovery. The FS has been looking for excuses to reduce use since 1998 - ironically if an outfitter doesn't use a launch date the FS threatens to take that launch date away and re allocate to another outfitter for "lack of use" What????


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## idahofloater

lmaciag said:


> This was just sent out to the YahooGroup "idahowhitewater." Not my post, just thought I'd share.
> ________________________________________________________________
> 
> 
> 
> It cost one outfitter $2600 to fly into Indian Creek last week (good for http://sawtoothflying.com) - that same outfitter contributes about $18,000/ year to the FS in user access fees! ($4/person/day + 3% of gross)


WTF. Not a penny comes out of the "Outfitters" pockets.. The cost is transfered to the customer. The outfitter is just pissed that they didn't plan for this and it will cut into their profits. CUSTOMERS contribute about $18,000/ year to the FS in user access fees! ($4/person/day) not outfitters..


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## ridecats

Perhaps the evil USFS ordered up the heavy snowpack, so as to deliberately block the road longer, just so they could further their REAL purpose and hidden agenda... cleaning the latrines less. :roll:


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## idahoriverguide

idahofloater said:


> WTF. Not a penny comes out of the "Outfitters" pockets.. The cost is transfered to the customer. The outfitter is just pissed that they didn't plan for this and it will cut into their profits. CUSTOMERS contribute about $18,000/ year to the FS in user access fees! ($4/person/day) not outfitters..


Wow, its your road too you know. Why is it the outfitter's job to open it? The fs is keeping you out of YOUR road. They have been and continue to passively keep people out of the middle fork. Don't believe me? Then you're not paying attention.


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## MikeG

idahoriverguide said:


> Wow, its your road too you know. Why is it the outfitter's job to open it? The fs is keeping you out of YOUR road. They have been and continue to passively keep people out of the middle fork. Don't believe me? Then you're not paying attention.


As far as I can tell, this is the _Forest_ Service, not the municipal department of snow removal. I like the fact that its not Disneyland and variable conditions require problem-solving. Commercial outfitters as well as private boaters all have choices to make when nature deals up variable (but not unexpected) conditions. There's always Marsh Creek. Perhaps the outfitter should have said 'I sure am thankful that the FS maintains the airstrip at Indian Creek so I have options for my customers.'

That being said, I sure hope the road opens before 6/18!


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## cmike1

MikeG said:


> As far as I can tell, this is the _Forest_ Service, not the municipal department of snow removal. I like the fact that its not Disneyland and variable conditions require problem-solving. Commercial outfitters as well as private boaters all have choices to make when nature deals up variable (but not unexpected) conditions. There's always Marsh Creek. Perhaps the outfitter should have said 'I sure am thankful that the FS maintains the airstrip at Indian Creek so I have options for my customers.'
> 
> That being said, I sure hope the road opens before 6/18!


Yup, I never thought of it as being th Forest Service's job to plow backcountry roads. Plowing and opening dirt roads during runoff has all kinds of potintial downsides. No doubt it sucks for the commercial interests and general public who want to use the road but nature doesn't give a shit about the agenda of human beings.


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## carvedog

I am doing some recon in the area and have heard several people mention a slide. Possibly on the downhill side of Cape Horn Summit. I would love to have the exact details on the location of this slide if anyone has such a thing.


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## obeyriver

*Just Melt*

We are coming all the way from Arkansas for a June 26 launch date at Boundary Creek. Just keep the sun out to melt snow on the road. And maybe bring the river level down a foot or so.


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## idahofloater

idahoriverguide said:


> Wow, its your road too you know. Why is it the outfitter's job to open it? The fs is keeping you out of YOUR road. They have been and continue to passively keep people out of the middle fork. Don't believe me? Then you're not paying attention.


I do realize it is a shared road. The outfitter wants money nothing more nothing less. Nature says NO! If outfitter wants it differently, then too bad. Its Idaho wilderness up there. I have zero loveloss for outfitters. If it was up to me I'd rip that road right out of the mountain. Just saying.


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## Ranco

idahofloater said:


> I do realize it is a shared road. The outfitter wants money nothing more nothing less. Nature says NO! If outfitter wants it differently, then too bad. Its Idaho wilderness up there. I have zero loveloss for outfitters. If it was up to me I'd rip that road right out of the mountain. Just saying.


Glad it's not up to you


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## BDPADDLE

I called a ranger today about my June 21st permit and was informed there is a log at the top of Dagger (ranger hadn't seen it in person, could be gone).

The ranger also said several have tried to drive in Boundary, but they have only made it about 2.5 - 3 miles in. Then they had to pull each other out of the snow on the way back out.

Has anyone else run Marsh since lhowemt ran it about a week ago? Did you have any major wood? Were you able to pass the fish trap without problems? Any visual flow reports for Marsh Creek?

Thanks!


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## Anchorless

idahoriverguide said:


> Wow, its your road too you know. Why is it the outfitter's job to open it? The fs is keeping you out of YOUR road. They have been and continue to passively keep people out of the middle fork. Don't believe me? Then you're not paying attention.


This is pure BS. The Forest Service has no obligation to clear snow from a road to provide access. 

Your statements show a fundamental misunderstanding of the FS purpose, especially in accord with NEPA, ESA, and other publicly approved statutes and regulations that have purposes that suit other peoples, interests, and species beyond the recreational gain of outfitters. 

The bigger picture is more important here, in my opinion. I say this as someone who is not only professionally trained and educated in natural resources policy, but as an avid outdoorsman and recreationalist who at times is at odds with public lands policy. I deal with it, though, because I do respect and appreciate the larger context.


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## raftercat

*Boundary Creek Road June 14*

Spoke with Donna this morning June 14th, no new information, furthest in anyone has reported getting up the road is about 3 miles, stopped by snow. No prediction on opening.


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## kaya dog

I have 4 sleds, will tow gear in for anyone that has room for 1 guy 2 girls. 2 cat boats. Rafts would be towed on mat made for hauling crashed sleds. So no dragging on snow/rocks. Open for whatever.


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## raftus

There is talk on Idaho Whitewater that people in 4wd vehicles with chains have made it in to Boundary. Also there may be some people working to open the road today with shovels...might be a sign that the road is getting close.

While the Forest Service might not have an obligation to plow the road, plowing roads is a normal function of many local, state and federal organizations. My vote is that if the outfitters want to pay to plow the road - let them.


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## Anchorless

raftus said:


> There is talk on Idaho Whitewater that people in 4wd vehicles with chains have made it in to Boundary. Also there may be some people working to open the road today with shovels...might be a sign that the road is getting close.
> 
> While the Forest Service might not have an obligation to plow the road, plowing roads is a normal function of many local, state and federal organizations. My vote is that if the outfitters want to pay to plow the road - let them.


The problem is that letting outfitters plow a forest service road probably involves a lengthy, expensive bureaucratic process that involves NEPA, possibly open bidding, and a whole slew of other crap that makes it not worthwhile. 

I can't find ANYTHING that suggests that plowing snow is a normal USFS function.


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## idahoriverguide

Anchorless said:


> This is pure BS. The Forest Service has no obligation to clear snow from a road to provide access.
> 
> Your statements show a fundamental misunderstanding of the FS purpose, especially in accord with NEPA, ESA, and other publicly approved statutes and regulations that have purposes that suit other peoples, interests, and species beyond the recreational gain of outfitters.
> 
> The bigger picture is more important here, in my opinion. I say this as someone who is not only professionally trained and educated in natural resources policy, but as an avid outdoorsman and recreationalist who at times is at odds with public lands policy. I deal with it, though, because I do respect and appreciate the larger context.


-You think I don't see the big picture? Unlike you I make my living off the back country, I didn't just study it in a class room. I am not saying the FS should plow the road, I'm just saying that it's a public road and thus up to the public to do as they wish, i.e. have the option to plow if they get the proper permitting. 

Have you even taken into account the economic impact that this is causing? Do you even care? The fact is hundreds of people have canceled permits this season for the MFSR, that has impacted the already fragile economy in the Salmon River Valley. That's hundreds of people who didn't come through the towns in the area to spend money. I live in one of the towns effected and I'll tell you first hand it's made a large impact. Standing behind the ESA is not, in my opinion, what it's there for. I am all for preservation of the Frank Church. How much money is the FS losing right now due to the canceled permits? $4 a day per person, that's $576 per permit with 24 people on it. That's $2304 per launch day. Wouldn't you like to see that money help your "big picture"?

What needs to be on the radar of boaters on the MFSR is the new regulations about canceled permits August 15th- September 15th. I personally don't feel it's a huge deal at this point, but if boaters don't stand up and make a voice Chris Grove will have this policy extended throughout the whole permit season. It's just a foot in the door at this point and Chris himself has said he hasn't heard any feedback from 'private boaters' 

Anchor, I agree with you it's not the FS job to remove snow, I never said it was. The fact that they make it such a mess just to pay to plow it says a lot. The fact that in the last 10 years well over 90% of the people who have lost their lives on the river has been those on Marsh Creek. And don't start me on that, I've personally gone in and got the bodies out of that creek, without the help of the FS I might add. 

I'm done with this topic. The road is still closed and the slide on it is still huge. No one has made it through to boundary as of today. Have a great summer and if you get out on the MF enjoy the hell out of it, it's a magical place that will find a home in your hearts.


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## Alectoris

Posted on idaho whitewater forum:

Dear Middle Fork Boaters,

We were notified today that the road to Boundary Creek has been shoveled open
and 4WD and high clearance vehicles have made it in. Expect muddy, snowy
single-lane sections, changing conditions, and water over the road at Poker
Meadows; one lane is washed out. Water is not available yet at Boundary or
Dagger, and the bottom boat ramp boards have not been installed.

Today's water level is 6.66 feet, a level that is considered extremely
hazardous.


After emailing permit holders about the new Boat Check requirements (attached)
for the Middle Fork of the Salmon River, a boater asked if he could get his
Idaho Invasive Species Stickers at the launch sites after his boats were
checked.

Sorry, but no; these stickers are not available from our employees at the
launches.

The sticker requirement is a relatively new law (2009) enacted by the State of
Idaho. According to their website, "any non-motorized vessel (canoe, kayak,
raft, drift boat, etc.) will be required to purchase and display IISF stickers
in order to legally launch and operate in Idaho. Inflatable, non-motorized
vessels must be less than 10 feet in length to be exempted from this
requirement."

For purchase options, and to learn more about Idaho's invasive species program,
visit their website at:
Idaho Invasive Species Fund

While both the State of Idaho and the Forest Service are working to prevent the
introduction of Aquatic Invasive Species into our waters, these are two separate
government entities. The sticker requirement is administered by the State of
Idaho.

Before launching on the Middle Fork of the Salmon River, the permit holder must
sign their float permit, which states that they "have read and understood the
rules and regulations", one of which reads "Observe all local, State and Federal
laws and regulations pertaining to the area. This includes the State of Idaho
Invasive Species Sticker. All craft must be clean and dry and free of invasive
species."

Some boaters have not heard about Idaho's new state law, so we are emailing this
to all permit holders, and asking them to forward to boat owners going on their
float trip. I am attaching the boat check requirements for new reservation
holders who may not have seen this yet.


Donna Leuzinger, River Clerk, Middle Fork District


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## BDPADDLE

Idahoriverguide,

Are you sure no one has made it in using Boundary due to the slide? As a permit holder I received the same letter yesterday that was posted by Alectoris. We were planning on running Marsh Creek, but would prefer to drive in Boundary. Any confirmation would be appreciated.

Thanks!


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## fiya79

confirmed again on idaho whitewater this morning. 

"The Boundary road opened yesterday, recommend 4x4 vehicles, one lane and slushy in places."


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## Anchorless

idahoriverguide said:


> -You think I don't see the big picture? Unlike you I make my living off the back country, I didn't just study it in a class room. I am not saying the FS should plow the road, I'm just saying that it's a public road and thus up to the public to do as they wish, i.e. have the option to plow if they get the proper permitting.
> 
> *You clearly aren't seeing the big picture and are a bit mislead as to what public lands are and how they are managed. I'm glad that you're able to make a living off of the back country. Most of us envy you in being able to do so. At the same time, it is simply not feasible that everyone do so, and there are obviously regulations to that effect. But don't think you'll gain sympathy from me - or any one else - because you have been able to leverage a living from public lands. This alone is a rather contentious topic. However, more power to you.
> 
> The point is, at no point in public lands management has the public ever been allowed to "do what they wish," roads included. That's an extremely stupid position to take, even if you disagree with the current level of state/federal bureaucracy.
> *
> Have you even taken into account the economic impact that this is causing? Do you even care? The fact is hundreds of people have canceled permits this season for the MFSR, that has impacted the already fragile economy in the Salmon River Valley. That's hundreds of people who didn't come through the towns in the area to spend money. I live in one of the towns effected and I'll tell you first hand it's made a large impact. Standing behind the ESA is not, in my opinion, what it's there for. I am all for preservation of the Frank Church. How much money is the FS losing right now due to the canceled permits? $4 a day per person, that's $576 per permit with 24 people on it. That's $2304 per launch day. Wouldn't you like to see that money help your "big picture"?
> 
> *I actually do care very much about this - more than you'd probably imagine. At the same time, these mountain towns that depend on recreation money are historically used to and situated for these kinds of ups and downs. Any tourism dependent economy is. And that's just the way it has to stay unless you want to continue seeing private development and getaways encroach in these towns (ie, become more like Western Montana, Jackson Hole, Sun Valley, etc.). The economic volatility is part of who they keep their character and charm, like it or not.
> 
> Despite what you think, these are all factors considered in the "broader picture" goals. The USFS is not out to get you or your small town. At the same time, there does need to be a little flexibility for these types of situations. On the other hand, it's an unusual snow year. What can you expect, really? *
> 
> 
> What needs to be on the radar of boaters on the MFSR is the new regulations about canceled permits August 15th- September 15th. I personally don't feel it's a huge deal at this point, but if boaters don't stand up and make a voice Chris Grove will have this policy extended throughout the whole permit season. It's just a foot in the door at this point and Chris himself has said he hasn't heard any feedback from 'private boaters'
> 
> *Fair enough.*
> 
> Anchor, I agree with you it's not the FS job to remove snow, I never said it was. The fact that they make it such a mess just to pay to plow it says a lot. The fact that in the last 10 years well over 90% of the people who have lost their lives on the river has been those on Marsh Creek. And don't start me on that, I've personally gone in and got the bodies out of that creek, without the help of the FS I might add.
> 
> *All it says is that there are larger regulations in place with broader policy in mind... I'm sorry you don't think it should apply to plowing roads, but NEPA applies to any action on federal land... and there are larger reasons for this type of bureaucracy. In my opinion, I'll take the bs red tape if it means we can continue to preserve the integrity of the public lands and waters in our state without catering to industry, timber, mining, or private development. Gladly.
> 
> As far as your ridiculous Marsh Creek argument goes... that's same argument people will make for increasing regulations or stupid ideas like hand rails and warning signs in Wilderness. People who decide to cruise down Marsh know exactly what they're getting into, and if they don't... well, that's the risk they take. Do you want to close down rivers because people make stupid decisions on them?
> *
> I'm done with this topic. The road is still closed and the slide on it is still huge. No one has made it through to boundary as of today. Have a great summer and if you get out on the MF enjoy the hell out of it, it's a magical place that will find a home in your hearts.


*I'll be on the MF (and Main) this year in July and August, respectively. I will certainly cherish it, as I do every time I am able to be on it.*


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## slamkal

idahoriverguide said:


> -
> What needs to be on the radar of boaters on the MFSR is the new regulations about canceled permits August 15th- September 15th. I personally don't feel it's a huge deal at this point, but if boaters don't stand up and make a voice Chris Grove will have this policy extended throughout the whole permit season. It's just a foot in the door at this point and Chris himself has said he hasn't heard any feedback from 'private boaters'


this time window is when the water levels are low and the fish are spawning and hence most vulnerable to man made disturbances. i highly doubt they will attempt to stretch this policy across the summer months, any more than i doubt that not plowing the road is a conspiracy to keep us off the river (or take away our guns)


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