# Pumphouse @ High Water



## master of disaster

dunno, but will try it today in a 14 ft cat, leaving frisco at 10-1030.
going to try and thumb the shuttle.
Rich
three-oh-three-909-8877 if ya wanna give it a shot.


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## Ture

At least 2 dogs drowned this weekend on the Pumphouse section. I saw lots of dogs and even a few people without PFDs. Lots of people in shorts and T-shirts floating on ice water. Darwinism is in full effect for this season, starting now.

It was easy, everything was pretty washed out... but it is moving fast and there were flips every day. We saw a raft flip at Keyhole, a.k.a. Needle's Eye, or whatever you may call it.

Our kids and dogs stayed at camp, but we are pretty conservative. I'd say wear a life jacket and dress for a swim and you'll be fine... kind of surprising to me how many people don't do even that much.


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## nicho

Can't make it up today, let me know how it goes, Have fun!


master of disaster said:


> dunno, but will try it today in a 14 ft cat, leaving frisco at 10-1030.
> going to try and thumb the shuttle.
> Rich
> three-oh-three-909-8877 if ya wanna give it a shot.


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## nicho

The flip you saw in Needle Eye, did they go over sideways, small boat? Was up there a couple weeks ago around 4500 saw people in shorts no shirt or pfds boozin early which is not good on high ice water. Is it still easy to get left of Yarmony hole.


Ture said:


> At least 2 dogs drowned this weekend on the Pumphouse section. I saw lots of dogs and even a few people without PFDs. Lots of people in shorts and T-shirts floating on ice water. Darwinism is in full effect for this season, starting now.
> 
> It was easy, everything was pretty washed out... but it is moving fast and there were flips every day. We saw a raft flip at Keyhole, a.k.a. Needle's Eye, or whatever you may call it.
> 
> Our kids and dogs stayed at camp, but we are pretty conservative. I'd say wear a life jacket and dress for a swim and you'll be fine... kind of surprising to me how many people don't do even that much.


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## fking907

We'll be headed down this weekend (june 3rd-5th) and I was just hoping to chat with somebody that ran it to make sure that the river left line was doable at Yarmony. My 14' Highside would get eaten in the yarmony hole right now (8450cfs).


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## bookmillone

I was there this weekend, carnage all around. Talked to a guy that was about to bury his dog on the bank down-stream of yarmony, he was with a group of seven that flipped and lost everything, (nothing tied down!!) Saw two others that flipped in needles and nearly froze to death (rescued by commercial boaters). None of these folks were prepared for any river, let alone 42 degree Colorado River. If you don't think enough of your dog to buy him a pfd maybe you should take him to a shelter where he might get adopted by somebody that will


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## bookmillone

fking907 said:


> We'll be headed down this weekend (june 3rd-5th) and I was just hoping to chat with somebody that ran it to make sure that the river left line was doable at Yarmony. My 14' Highside would get eaten in the yarmony hole right now (8450cfs).


 You can go either side at this level. I chose the right on Saturday but left looked good as well


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## rafterswhite

When it got this high in the 90's, the problem wasn't the hole at Yarmony, but the lower shelf there. A right hand run allows you a little more lee way to maneuver away from the left side cliff below. Left side run pushes you towards the new hole on the lower shelf. It's worth a scout if your not familiar with it.

Common sense prevails... dress to get wet, and if all you have is low water or flat water experience, consider hooking up with someone who's comfortable running white water.


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## nicho

So if you go right do you just bow left and pull off the hole and the left wall or can you push past the hole and stay right of the hole on the lower wall. How much room is on the right side of the hole between the edge of the hole and the right bank?


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## rafterswhite

There's a good pic in the classified's here. Bow left and you can back in towards the bank behind the large house size rock by the tracks. Then forward and take as much or little of the hole as you want. Am told from the old- old timers that the laterals off the right bank get stronger as the water goes up.


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## ecarlson972

Bummed to hear about the dogs drowning last weekend so sad!!!


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## sebcaw

just go, be prepared, and scout it if you are unfamiliar. Piece of cake done correctly, but high winds (likely) can easily throw you off your line. Consequences are HIGH - rig to flip, dress to swim. Quote of the weekend - "we usually run this section in the fall, and it's just a trickle." (post Yarmony flip)


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## master of disaster

we hit the hole on the left side, sucked us right and up, and over. nice cold swim, boat was rigged to flip, broke oar keeper, lost some sunglasses and some dignitity. four stitches for the lady. . 
Thanks to those who helped scoop up the stray oar, and to those who comforted us and helped flip us back.
big hole.


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## mustloverafting

This past Saturday, I hit Yarmony head on backwards in a 16ft Cat (on purpose). I felt it sucking the boat back into the the hole but rowed it out. If it would have been a normal raft, it would have flipped. My suggestion is to go right at this level. The "Eye of the Needle" is washed out. You will not need to make a move through the Needle. Not sure how people flipped in the Eye unless it was just below the Needle or above in "Wake Up Rapid." Any how, we were dressed to flip with dry suits and both doggies had PFD's with a human holding on to each doggie. Good luck and see ya this weekend on the upper C!


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## nicho

Thanks for the pic, that hole is big right now. Where is the scout at this flow, is the scout eddy river left above the rapid available.


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## sebcaw

scout from river right, walk on the tracks, watch out for trains.

here are a few more pics at 7800 cfs.


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## nicho

Nice. Hope the flow holds for another couple weeks or rise more. The flow has actually gone down in the last couple days, don't think it peaked yet there is still a lot of snow to come down.


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## fking907

Thanks for the pics. Looks like plenty of room on both sides of the hole and besides the ledge downstream river left, should be a cakewalk with fun laterals and wavetrains. Looks and sounds like a great time at this level, can't wait to get down there this weekend! We will be putting on around 10:30 Saturday morning with a blue 14' Hyside, about 5 friends, and our chocolate lab, if anybody sees us come say hi. Happy paddling and as always rig to flip, dress to swim (including pfd's for the pups and NOT TYING THEM IN THE BOAT)


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## fking907

Oh yea, I forgot to ask. How long was the float from Pumphouse to State Bridge at this level? Anybody know if the Windy Gap camp spots are accessible or under water. They are the ones across the river and just downstream from state bridge on the one lane dirt road.


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## zlgirl

I wish people treated their dogs more like people and made pfds mandatory  
Sad to hear about that.


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## Teri_at_BLM

*Road to Windy Gap closed due to high water*

Water is on the road to Windy Gap, so the access gate is closed.


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## swedgen

Just did the Pumphouse to state bridge. The needle was a wash but Yarmony was pretty big. Went far left and still got sucked into the hole it was quite awesome. Then it tried to put me into the wall. Its the highest that I have seen it.


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## ecarlson972

So what is everyones thoughts? Right or left at yarmony?


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## Dave Frank

ecarlson972 said:


> So what is everyones thoughts? Right or left at yarmony?


Don't you run trips on that stretch professionally now, or have I got you confused with another buzzard?

I'd be scared if I found out my guide was soliciting advice on running the rapids of his home stretch on the buzz...


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## ecarlson972

Nice catch Dave! We are not running trips yet! We have trips next week and we are going up there this weekend to pre-run and figure it out.


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## frank gregg

Went down on sat fast fast fast cfs7500 stay far left at yarmany it's fast the people that fliped went over dump truck style with kids and dog dog didn't make the cold swim not cool .rig to flip PDFs an dry gear


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## Brotorboat

EC - Stay far left...then turn your bow left and stay off the bank as the river bends back to the right.


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## farp

ecarlson972 said:


> So what is everyones thoughts? Right or left at yarmony?


Back in 1996 when it was last at these levels, I went right. The lateral waves are less pushy over there and it sets you up perfectly to avoid the lower shelf. 
But when levels drop a little, the left line becomes my preferred line again.


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## slavetotheflyrod

zlgirl said:


> I wish people treated their dogs more like people and made pfds mandatory
> Sad to hear about that.


I wish people would leave the fucking dogs at home, or at least learn to pick up their shit and keep the fucking mutt on a fucking leash (as required by law).


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## pinemnky13

slavetotheflyrod said:


> I wish people would leave the fucking dogs at home, or at least learn to pick up their shit and keep the fucking mutt on a fucking leash (as required by law).


If you want to bitch about Dogs then post on this thread:

http://www.mountainbuzz.com/forums/f14/dogs-in-westwater-canyon-34958.html

This is about running pumphouse


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## mustloverafting

I would go right to avoid getting pushed into the wall on the left.


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## pinemnky13

I would go center cause my woman wants to


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## slavetotheflyrod

pinemnky13 said:


> If you want to bitch about Dogs then post on this thread:
> 
> http://www.mountainbuzz.com/forums/f14/dogs-in-westwater-canyon-34958.html
> 
> This is about running pumphouse


Uh, yeah, I gathered that by the title and all. I also happened to notice a few posts about dogs that drowned over the weekend due to the fact that some dumb fucks in this world don't know the first thing about reading water.

Lemmee sum it up like this - If you have to ask about pumphouse at high water YOU SHOULDN'T FUCKING GO! (dog or no dog)


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## ecarlson972

Lemmee sum it up like this - If you have to ask about pumphouse at high water YOU SHOULDN'T FUCKING GO! (dog or no dog)[/QUOTE]

I disagree with you on that one! The ones that are asking questions are the smart ones! The dumbasses that just show up with no knowledge no PFD's drunk before they are even on the river are the ones we need to be scared about.


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## zlgirl

I read that this stretch is really dangerous for people too. I was only saying that people should use pfds on their dogs. 

I dont raft very often but if I did everyone in my raft would have a pfd including my dog

Sad that some dogs died. Who knows, maybe it could not have been prevented. But maybe it could have too!


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## slavetotheflyrod

ecarlson972 said:


> Lemmee sum it up like this - If you have to ask about pumphouse at high water YOU SHOULDN'T FUCKING GO! (dog or no dog)


I disagree with you on that one! The ones that are asking questions are the smart ones! The dumbasses that just show up with no knowledge no PFD's drunk before they are even on the river are the ones we need to be scared about.[/QUOTE]

You're both right and wrong. 

You're right in as much as you're correct that it's prudent to get as much info as possible before attempting any run.

You're wrong in as much as it's stupid to make a first run down a stretch of river at near record high water no matter how much info you have. 

And last - just because someone asks a few questions and gets a bit of info doesn't mean they won't show up drunk and sans PFD.


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## fking907

Just ran it today at 7800 and went river right around yarmony hole (easy). we watched a commercial trip run left and and lost 6 people at the ledge downstream.


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## pinemnky13

I saw on the news this morning that there was a drowning around Radium yesterday. There were no details released by the sheriff's office as of 7 this morning


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## stribtw

pinemnky13 said:


> I saw on the news this morning that there was a drowning around Radium yesterday. There were no details released by the sheriff's office as of 7 this morning


 
Possible drowning in Colorado River | 9news.com


RADIUM - The Grand County Sheriff's Office is investigating a possible drowning in the Colorado River near Radium. 
Radium is located southwest of Kremmling along Colorado Highway One.

The sheriff's office says they got the call around 3:15 p.m. Thursday of a possible drowning.

When they got there, they found an unresponsive male in the area.

No other information has been released.


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## Waterwindpowderrock

stribtw said:


> Possible drowning in Colorado River | 9news.com
> 
> 
> RADIUM - The Grand County Sheriff's Office is investigating a possible drowning in the Colorado River near Radium.
> Radium is located southwest of Kremmling along Colorado Highway One.
> 
> The sheriff's office says they got the call around 3:15 p.m. Thursday of a possible drowning.
> 
> When they got there, they found an unresponsive male in the area.
> 
> No other information has been released.


Hey, look on the bright side... maybe this year will weed out some of the morons who have no respect for the water & think it's just another excuse to go get hammered. We've made every other part of society safe for the lowest common denominator... maybe rafting is all there is left to help us?


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## nervouswater

waterwind: you're a 1st class tool. I hope I meet you on the river one day.


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## Waterwindpowderrock

nervouswater said:


> waterwind: you're a 1st class tool. I hope I meet you on the river one day.



Glad we had this talk.

I have no desire to see people DIE doing what we love, but it makes me sick that people can't just use a bit of common sense & be smart about the river.

IT'S A DANGEROUS PLACE, if you want to go out in board shorts & a t shirt with a bunch of beer... WTF do you expect to happen?? I'm just tired of people making poor decisions & expecting that someone is always going to be there to help them. 

(don't mistake this for times where shit just happens & people were prepared, but the day went wrong. It DOES happen, but that's not what I'm talking about)

Another example...

Rafters get in trouble on fast-flowing Colorado River | SkyHiDailyNews.com


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## Fallingup

The upper C is the most deadliest river in this region. Mostly fishing deaths, people with out pfds, entanglement, etc.

People are stupid, and inexperienced, and that mixed with alcohol and the sweet sound of summer is a deadly mix.

Flows will be hauling this weekend... Be safe out there everyone!


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## WillYates

Water wind, I hope to meet you on the water as well. Don't say shit till you know details. Ass


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## Waterwindpowderrock

WillYates said:


> Water wind, I hope to meet you on the water as well. Don't say shit till you know details. Ass


LOOK at the details of the one I JUST posted. Exactly what I'm talking about.


You can call me all the names you want, but it won't keep the unprepared from putting themselves in danger. People need to think about the consequences of what they do. I also feel that rental companies should be giving people a full setup (wetsuit, PFD, helmet) when the water is this high. Some folks have no clue & someone should at least TRY to intervene.


btw will... you & I are friends with a lot of the same people... I think if you asked them you'd get a very different idea of what I stand for than one comment about people on a river. My comments about this & slides are usually pretty harsh, but it's because I give a crap about what's going on & want people to stop & think for a second. I'm the photag on Gore, and my wife is the photag on pumphouse... so I have ZERO interest in seeing people die on the stretches that I spend my days on. I've seen 2 very close calls, have had a few friends die & would prefer to never see or hear of it happening again.


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## rwhyman

Arizona woman killed on rafting trip near Radium - The Denver Post


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## pinemnky13

Fallingup said:


> The upper C is the most deadliest river in this region. Mostly fishing deaths, people with out pfds, entanglement, etc.
> 
> People are stupid, and inexperienced, and that mixed with alcohol and the sweet sound of summer is a deadly mix.
> 
> Flows will be hauling this weekend... Be safe out there everyone!


We had an experince there a couple of years ago with some drunks you fell out of the boat in late summer low flow and literally had to get one out of waist deep water. He was drunk, no pfd, wearing a cotton t shirt and his buddies left him behind. They were all trashed and got an earful from us about being prepared for the conditions. 
We saw them at the put in @ 11:00 passing a handle of Jack around, i knew we would see them again that day. 
I think we should just call out people who are going out without a pfd, boozing it up(and i don't mean a couple of beers while on the river and at put in) and let em know that they are gonna die if they don't wear a pfd and if they dont know what they are doing.
An, where are the sheriffs enforcing the pfd law that is posted at the put ins? If it's not enforced then why have the signs then?


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## WillYates

Sorry to call you an ass. I hate when people are not prepared too, but this new story has no details.. So we should wait


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## Waterwindpowderrock

WillYates said:


> Sorry to call you an ass. I hate when people are not prepared too, but this new story has no details.. So we should wait


My comments were actually more based on the link that I posted. Same run, COMPLETELY unprepared, and VERY lucky someone was there to save their asses.


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## Fallingup

This woman was 65 years old. We dont know the facts on this death.
For all we know she died of a heartattack. I doubt she was boozing it up!
I would also guess that she was wearing a pfd if she was part of a team building group.

I agree, more enforcement at the put-ins would be beneficial to all


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## CBrown

Fallingup said:


> I agree, more enforcement at the put-ins would be beneficial to all


 
Be careful what you ask for. Do you really want to start paying higher fees to pay some ranger to rummage through your shit at the put in. It wont stop the inexperienced from putting on or getting hammered along the way.

I could maybe see some danger signage like "this many people have drowned on this run, know your skill level" or something like that.


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## Waterwindpowderrock

CBrown said:


> Be careful what you ask for. Do you really want to start paying higher fees to pay some ranger to rummage through your shit at the put in. It wont stop the inexperienced from putting on or getting hammered along the way.
> 
> I could maybe see some danger signage like "this many people have drowned on this run, know your skill level" or something like that.


I think some kind of sign like that would be nice to see. I think people think of a run like PH as being rather benign & underestimate what will happen if they end up in the water.


As for enforcement, I can't imagine we'll see it. My opinion is that outfitters renting should have some responsibility (mind you, not LIABILITY) to simply inform people that they need more than just a duckie to get down the river safely. The two guys in the article I posted are prime examples, with proper gear it would have likely been a non issue, but in shorts & a t shirt... you're in trouble FAST when you get dunked.

It's not that much more is needed materially, but people need to be educated somehow.


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## fking907

I just hope everybody has an awesome safe weekend on the water. Retards are inevitably going to be out there. I just hope we have a fatality free weekend (dogs too). We were out Thursday and it was pretty fun at 7800, I just hope it gets to the projected 12000 while we are down there this weekend. I know it's the river and crazy shit can happen to anybody on any run. Its very sad to hear about the older lady that drowned yesterday and the multiple dogs that have drowned in the last week. 

Now... to the river retards: Please don't go near the water this weekend because rescuing hypothermic dumb shits without proper gear and experience (like we did yesterday) gets old and takes time away from my float and kills my buzz!


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## Fallingup




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## Fallingup

CBrown said:


> Be careful what you ask for. Do you really want to start paying higher fees to pay some ranger to rummage through your shit at the put in. It wont stop the inexperienced from putting on or getting hammered along the way.


Everyone has a right to their own stupidity...let them have it!

I hope I get down to see it at 12000 if it gets that big. You can never under estimate the power of moving water. The thought of it is exhilarating!

Have fun everyone and be safe
p.s. if you have a doggy pfd, use it!


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## two miles high

Does anyone know if the camp spots below yarmony are flooded out (Bench 1,2,or 3)?


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## fking907

two miles high said:


> Does anyone know if the camp spots below yarmony are flooded out (Bench 1,2,or 3)?


The water was really close to flooding a couple of the camp areas yesterday while some were just fine (7800cfs). I talked with BLM who was told by natural weather center that it's expected to reach 12000 cfs by sunday or monday. From what I've been seeing the water is actually going down a little but that doesn't mean it won't surge back up. I know that the road and most of the spots at the windy gap camp area just downstream from state bridge are under water.


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## slavetotheflyrod

I hate to say it, but if you're old enough to be collecting social security, you probably shouldn't be rafting in high water conditions. 3 deaths that come to mind in the past 2 weeks, all of them over age 65. I've known some pretty tough old birds, but none that could endure an extended swim in water like this. For that matter I know a few folks half that age that wouldn't fare so well either.


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## Waterwindpowderrock

Just heard the rest of the details on the lady, crappy deal. She WAS with a good crew, and DID have the right gear, so I'd guess there were other circumstances involved (age, health) other than just being dumped.

As a raft company, can you legally discriminate based upon age? (I know on gore they "discriminate" all the time, but not sure how it really works.


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## slavetotheflyrod

Yes, you can. 

I've several times told folks they're too old, too fat or in too poor of health to be rafting. They never like it, and always complain, but deep down they always knew I was right and they backed down. Though I no longer guide I still, as a rule, refuse to take anyone I think might be incapable of self-rescue.


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## raymo

slavetotheflyrod said:


> Yes, you can.
> 
> I've several times told folks they're too old, too fat or in too poor of health to be rafting. They never like it, and always complain, but deep down they always knew I was right and they backed down. Though I no longer guide I still, as a rule, refuse to take anyone I think might be incapable of self-rescue.


Do'nt forget about the fishermen with those chest high waders on that want to raft from fishing spot to fishing spot.


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## slavetotheflyrod

raymo said:


> Do'nt forget about the fishermen with those chest high waders on that want to raft from fishing spot to fishing spot.


Those are precisely who I'm talking about (for the most part). 

Truth is though, most fishing outfits don't run when the water's high and off color - the fishing's not so good under those conditions. 

My personal litmus test was this: If I wasn't 100% sure that I could haul your carcass back into the boat one handed if need be, we weren't going boating. 
I cost myself more than a few paydays that way, but up to now, I've never lost a client [knocking wood]


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## TELEYAKCO

No one person can tell another person what to do but,DON'T BE AN IDIOT!Buzzards seem to jump to conclusion about everyone on the river,but we're a little bit (not a lot) more knowledgeble than most people who raft that stretch,and know that now is not the time to play around with the Mighty Upper Colorado.I would gladly give the BLM an extra 5-10 bucks for parking if they could regulate the "Late summer Rafters",and regulate on PFD'S and doggy PFD"S.There is nothing worse than hearing about an animal that doesn't know any better going on a suicide mission.


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## raymo

slavetotheflyrod said:


> Those are precisely who I'm talking about (for the most part).
> 
> Truth is though, most fishing outfits don't run when the water's high and off color - the fishing's not so good under those conditions.
> 
> My personal litmus test was this: If I wasn't 100% sure that I could haul your carcass back into the boat one handed if need be, we weren't going boating.
> I cost myself more than a few paydays that way, but up to now, I've never lost a client [knocking wood]


So you used your good judgement to determin who rafted down a river, instead of lumping one group of individuals into one pot.


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## slavetotheflyrod

Yeah, I guess so. 

It was more about me than them.

I just didn't ever want to deal with the possibility that I might have a swimmer that I couldn't recover. 

As far as I was concerned they could go ahead and drown all they wanted, so long as they didn't do it from my boat.


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## raymo

slavetotheflyrod said:


> Yeah, I guess so.
> 
> It was more about me than them.
> 
> I just didn't ever want to deal with the possibility that I might have a swimmer that I couldn't recover.
> 
> As far as I was concerned they could go ahead and drown all they wanted, so long as they didn't do it from my boat.


No worrie's man, I understand what your saying.
I have been there myself.


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## deltapapa22

so this will be my first reply on this site, but if you are boatin' the water this year,.,.,.use your brain..big water! skills, time, and boats. know the game, or stay home


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## kmcfall1

*pumphouse*

i ran an ik on pumphouse friday. everything was pretty washed out but i run yarmony to the right (no problems) but even with a wetsuit i was freezing


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## RiverCowboy

Maybe I am some kind of puss, but I've heard a couple people say that everything is washed out and am sort of confused. On Thursday I felt like the Upper Gorge was pretty big. It's not boat-eater stuff but it is flipping rafts - I heard firsthand of two flips and one dumptruck in Needles on Thursday.

I just don't want the inexperienced to hear the washed out stuff and think it's a good time for their first high water run...



kmcfall1 said:


> i ran an ik on pumphouse friday. everything was pretty washed out but i run yarmony to the right (no problems) but even with a wetsuit i was freezing


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## Waterwindpowderrock

RiverCowboy said:


> Maybe I am some kind of puss,



yeah... that's pretty much it Paul... 

You come with me, I'll show you down safe yo!


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## ecarlson972

Anybody want to paddle boat it tomorrow? I want to run it but I need some peeps.


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## catfishjon

so was the woman who drowned wit ha commercial trip?


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## RiverCowboy

Be at Pump tomorrow midday to see me flip when I eddy out from the ramp...if I make it past that we'll see what happens.



Waterwindpowderrock said:


> yeah... that's pretty much it Paul...
> 
> You come with me, I'll show you down safe yo!


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## RiverCowboy

*Hah I didn't flip at the ramp*

Well I didn't flip at the ramp. Yes, at 8200 Needles was kinda washed out compared to Thursday, which I think was 7600-ish. Yarmony isn't quite washed out though.



RiverCowboy said:


> Be at Pump tomorrow midday to see me flip when I eddy out from the ramp...if I make it past that we'll see what happens.


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## Waterwindpowderrock

RiverCowboy said:


> Well I didn't flip at the ramp. Yes, at 8200 Needles was kinda washed out compared to Thursday, which I think was 7600-ish. Yarmony isn't quite washed out though.



So... you went down in chest waders, a winter coat, steel toed boots... got wasted before even getting in the water... so it was a perfect trip then huh???


NIIIYCE!


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## nicho

RiverCowboy said:


> Well I didn't flip at the ramp. Yes, at 8200 Needles was kinda washed out compared to Thursday, which I think was 7600-ish. Yarmony isn't quite washed out though.


So what is Eye of the Needle like, been told its a big wave train with a big hole at the bottom?


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## goldcamp

So I was getting kinda nervous with all the hype on the Buzz about people and dogs dying and rafts getting flipped. But we ran it on Sunday and I though it goes easy. Yes there are some big feature but they are all easily avoidable. Set up early and ride the wave train. We ran the right side at Yarmony and after getting to the right at the top you get to just enjoy the view of the monster hole. Best part of the trip was after Island where we saw a black bear and her cub hanging out by the side of the river. Have fun and be safe.


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## openboat

goldcamp said:


> We ran the right side at Yarmony and after getting to the right at the top you get to just enjoy the view of the monster hole. QUOTE]
> 
> I've never run the right side, but when I went through 2 weeks ago, the left side was fairly narrow. I assume it is narrower now. Is the right wider?


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## foamdweller

The highest I've run pumphouse ~5500cfs (over a decade ago), but I can't believe it's anything other than class III even at these levels. 

People calling for regulation at the put-in annoy the hell out of me. You're probably the type of people that think the seat-belt laws are sane. GTFO. Freedom is a principle that needs to be upheld, not squandered for "safety."


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## RiverCowboy

That's about as accurate as it gets. A good wave train starts as you enter the gorge above Needles, but you get some slack water to set up above the hole. The hole is not river center where the rock would usually be, it's on river left against the wall. Just set up center to skirt the hole and ride the wave train, or right of center for the easy line. 



nicho said:


> So what is Eye of the Needle like, been told its a big wave train with a big hole at the bottom?


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## RiverCowboy

Yeah but it was hot, and we were sweatin' from slammin' Jack Daniels, so I had to take my winter coat and PFD off before Eye of the Needle. Almost ended up in the hole because I was fishing the whole time instead of rowing. The trout were really biting right in Yarmony, so I rowed back up from the little ledge hole and got in the big hole up top. You can catch half a dozen fish before you get flipped, then you drink whiskey while you right your boat and row back up and do it again. Perfect trip!



Waterwindpowderrock said:


> So... you went down in chest waders, a winter coat, steel toed boots... got wasted before even getting in the water... so it was a perfect trip then huh???
> 
> 
> NIIIYCE!


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## yesimapirate

We did PH to SB Saturday afternoon. Water was at 8130. The needle was completely gone and just a smooth drop with a lateral wave on the far left side. It would take seriously crappy boat placement to dump passengers or flip there. 
At Yarmony, I went right keeping the nose at a diagonal towards the hole to be able to pull off if needed. It was not needed. The drop was probably 6-8ft, but totally do-able. The left side looked do-able as well, but you have to work a lot harder to not hit the wall when the river starts to bend.

Trip's total time with monster head winds - 3 hours.


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## JAFR

I just posted a couple of pics from 6/6 at 8500cfs of Yarmony. Don't get too close. I went into that thing a couple weeks ago and three of us swam. Dress to swim rig to flip


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## summitraftgirl

Does anyone know the current status of the campsites between Pumphouse and Rancho? Is anything under water right now? Thanks in advance!


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## Rich

slavetotheflyrod said:


> I hate to say it, but if you're old enough to be collecting social security, you probably shouldn't be rafting in high water conditions. 3 deaths that come to mind in the past 2 weeks, all of them over age 65. I've known some pretty tough old birds, but none that could endure an extended swim in water like this. For that matter I know a few folks half that age that wouldn't fare so well either.


 
Followed a 67 year old catboater down Slaughterhouse Falls last weekend,
he had just gotten home from a highwater Yampa trip. As soon as he gets back from this week's highwater adventure, I'll let him know he should stay home, on the couch.


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## fking907

summitraftgirl said:


> Does anyone know the current status of the campsites between Pumphouse and Rancho? Is anything under water right now? Thanks in advance!


Just went down at 9000 and most of the campsite were still ok. Some were close to underwater but not quite there


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## nicho

At what level does the right line at Yarmony go away?


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## fking907

I think it's close if not already gone. Friends are headed down tomorrow and I'll have them take pics and get a report.


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## nicho

Right on that'd be cool to know.


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## troutslayer

Right or left at needle eye at the current flow of 2880?


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## openboat

Right at ANY flow. Last time I was through there (about 4k) I found a big curler just below the "eye" on the right, and it about flipped the raft. Keep your eyes open.


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## dryflier

At that flow, u will be fine right.


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## pinemnky13

Umm high water worries are done now, just worry about getting too buzzed and missing a rapid.


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## TELEYAKCO

We've been running left also for s#&ts and giggles.It's nice calm water coming into Needle's Eye right now.Right still has a little bump below the center rock i.e. Needles Eye.


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## nicho

nicho said:


> At what level does the right line at Yarmony go away?



The right line at Yarmony looked gone at 5500ish A couple weekends ago. Only gone right there once at 8500.


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## Beardance42

openboat said:


> Right at ANY flow. Last time I was through there (about 4k) I found a big curler just below the "eye" on the right, and it about flipped the raft. Keep your eyes open.


I was a bit surprised by that curler also, last weekend at about 3100. Saw it in time to scoot beneath needle eye rock and miss it...but the move at needle eye is still a bit more than 'go right' at this flow.


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## swedgen

The needle in pretty straight forward at this level. It is just a booze cruse now. We even damn near touched yarmony rock last weekend in my bucket boat for some excitement.


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## Mr. Shlitzenturkey

So not to be a super gaper but.... I have a group with young kids that wants to run Pumphouse to Rio in the next week, I've only run it at 1000, whats the beta at 3000. I'm not too worried about needle but have heard different things about yarmony. Is it kid worthy at this level?

Oh and I'm running pins and clips with a Galaxy cooler.


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## pinemnky13

Mr. Shlitzenturkey said:


> So not to be a super gaper but.... I have a group with young kids that wants to run Pumphouse to Rio in the next week, I've only run it at 1000, whats the beta at 3000. I'm not too worried about needle but have heard different things about yarmony. Is it kid worthy at this level?
> 
> Oh and I'm running pins and clips with a Galaxy cooler.


We ran with 5 kid last week, no problems but then again a pin came off an clipped me in the head and the galaxy cooler did not hold ice long enough to get a cold schlitz on my head but thats 2 other stories


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## SimpleMan

I'm so ready to run left, but I've got commercial paddlers. Been running it commercially as a guest guide for 6 days now, and I aim for the wall and then ride the pillow on the "sleeper" rock and it puts me just proper. Think I'm gonna run it left of the rocks tomorrow just for fun.


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## SummitSurfer

I do this stretch with my 4 year old all the time (note: she is a bad azz little swimmer and I often toss her in the water to keep her "familiar" with it swimming.....ha ha!)
But Eye of the Needle is hard to screw up as long as you are watching what your doing and have some basic boat handling skills.
Eye of the Needle is best run just right of center of the big rock in the middle. So I typically aim my bow slightly towards the hole below and ride the obvious tongue down, then I do a couple of back strokes away from the wall and ride that wave train fun below.
Yarmony is best run left side. Friday I saw someone attempt to run it right and didn't get flipped but came God awful close. He was on a perfect line for right but the hole reached out and sucked him river left, he high sided in a 14 ft with mad skills and ended up coming out the river left side of the whole....it was awesome to watch. With that being said I think its safe to say, RIGHT IS NOW CLOSED, unless ya want some swim fun.
After approaching Canyon Door on river right this should signal you to start watching for a small safe and easy tongue to the left of the hole. Keep your bow pointed at the hole and do several mild back pulls away from the hole as you pass. You may be able to straighten out a little as you pass the hole and see your path and clearance is good. I sometime will try and grab some of the hole on the side just to cool the family off a little but on the left outsides it wont suck you in, especially with some forward hole punching momentum. After pass that hole start rotating your boat around to face the wall which the river will be pushing you into above the next shelf drop. A few back pulls keeps you off this river left wall and a nasty little sleeper hole below, but with those back pulls you have nothing to worry about. I often, depending on timid people in my boat will punch that river left hole a little to living things up, but wouldn't recommend it if you don't run it a lot, if my family is on board I like to hit it cause they love that hole and with the right approach can be harmless, especially below 1500 CFS.
You should be fine at this flow as long as your attentitive and run the lines described in this thread. Plus, there is a good margin of error as long as you have some ok boat handling skills.
I was a little nervous this year running at above 5k but I did my homework on here and talked with some others and remember "Luck favors the prepared".
Have fun, be safe and always expect the unexpected.
****


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## RiverCowboy

**** is right, there is not a lot to it for whitewater boaters at these levels. Read and run, but be conservative if you're unsure. IMHO, if you are asking, you might be unsure. Just don't ever take on the mindset that "highwater is over so I don't have a thing to worry about"...you dance with the river, but the river always leads.

On an embarrassing side note, I have dumptrucked a 12 ft oar boat in the meat at Yarmony...at 3.5K...


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## BoilermakerU

If you have any experience rowing at all, you'll be fine with kids at this level. I've been taking my kids up there since they were 4 and 6, at levels from 1,000 cfs to over 9,000 cfs (this year). It's a good time at all levels, and really not that hard. it looks harder than it is really. That's not to say it should be taken lightly, as others have said, but just don't psych yourself out of doing it.


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## jalthage

We ran PH to Rancho a couple of times last week and I think I actually made a comment like "you have to blacked out or dead to flip in either of those canyons"...then watched someone flip by trying to go OVER the Yarmony rock. Presumably they were trying to go right, but made the move to late.
Seriously, just keep your eyes open and you should have no problems, there is no "trick move" it's pretty straight forward, avoid what looks like you should avoid and go where it looks like you should go.
Have fun and pace yourself, it's a long float after Lone Tree CG to Rancho, don't want to run out of beer!


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## shoenfeld13

I just ran Pumphouse to Rancho today with a 5, 6, 8, and 10 year old. Idiot proof may be a stretch, but as long as you don't ride the rock at Yarmony then it is really pretty basic stuff.


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## snakester

jalthage said:


> Have fun and pace yourself, it's a long float after Lone Tree CG to Rancho, don't want to run out of beer!


 I'm planning on being up there in two weeks to run Pumphouse to Catamount bridge.I wonder How much beer is that going to require?


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