# RMR Cust. Service-u decide



## tress33 (Jan 5, 2007)

So I bought a new 14' RMR raft years (2012?) ago and within three years the handles were falling off/degrading. I dealt with it and replaced them but the last two years the remaining handles are done and are taped with electrical tape. I heard that RMR had a deal because the Original batch, 2012, had issues with the handles... the deal was trade it in and RMR would give me a boat of my choice at a pro discount...well sounds great but we are teachers and can't spend the money at this time.

I emailed RMR to see if the deal was true and to see about fixing the handles. They said they would send me new handles and also tried to sell me a new boat. I appreciate the offer but we can't afford new rubber at this time. The handles never came. Bobby at RMR said he would send them out, I emailed him a week later asking if I should expect them....radio silence...thoughts? 

I kept my boat stored in my garage and never rolled it.


bobby
Aug 25, 2018, 5:54 AM
to me

Your boat looks like you have treated it well. I can send you some handles. I can also get you a 2018 raft at cost with a new warranty. Give me a call when you get a chance. 


Thanks, Bobby


Bobby Bower

General Manager

Rocky Mountain Rafts

www.rockymountainrafts.com


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## theusualsuspect (Apr 11, 2014)

I dunno. Replace the handles, sell the boat for half, buy a new boat which should be close to a wash with your discount. Now you have basically traded a 6 year old boat for a new one. Check the math, if that works I’d say that’s pretty fair. Even if you foot a few hundred to upgrade you’re coming out on top in my opinion. Others may disagree but I’d be all over that.


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## mkashzg (Aug 9, 2006)

Buy Hypalon it will last 5 times that long.


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## mkashzg (Aug 9, 2006)

You should buy the 14' 1991 Achilles S/B listed on the Buzz classifieds for $2,200. Comes with a frame, oars and trailer and will likely outlive almost any new PVC boat you buy today!


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## Dsuth82 (Apr 2, 2012)

How long ago? I think Bobby is on the road a lot in the summer. Gauley Fest just ended, so maybe he will get a chance to get them out soon. RMR is a small company that is growing fairly fast. I imagine your experience is a result of factors from that.

I'd probably replace the handles. Are they offering "pro" pricing or a boat at cost? If it's at cost you should take the deal and sell the old boat.


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## tress33 (Jan 5, 2007)

Thanks for the heads up of being out of town. Bobby called me today and we are playing phone tag but I don't doubt he will make it right. Just an FYI I can't keep the old boat and I completely understand. 



Update: I spoke with Bobby and he made me an offer I couldn't refuse. They took care of the issue with excellent customer service, I would not hesitate to buy another boat from them.



Admin: Please delete this thread... I am back on the RMR bandwagon


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## liltownhero (Mar 22, 2017)

Yeah they are good people over there, I've had nothing but good experiences with RMR


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## CB Rob (Feb 13, 2010)

nice to see RMR taking care of their people.


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## mtgreenheads (Jul 15, 2011)

Good to hear things have improved for RMR customers. I had very poor experiences a couple years ago.


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## CU_Mateo (Jul 22, 2016)

I have nothing but good things to say about Bobby and RMR! I have had nothing but positive experiences!


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## shannon s (Feb 20, 2015)

I have a recent experience with RMR. My one year old boat developed a seam leak. I used the company's email form to start the warranty process. After 7 days of crickets, I called. Bobby answered the warranty claims line and told me that "warranty wasn't his department, but he'd do his best. Zach with Raft-fix is apparently their repair guy and I got the boat to him the next week (Zach picked up the boat on his way back from Salida. Awesomeness!!)

Zach was timely with his repair, 10 days. The day before I had taken off work to go pick it up, Zach texted that night that the boat still wasn't holding air. I called RMR the next morning to get a head start on the process as I have a Grand trip coming up and would like to be super dialed in. Especially seeing the slow wheels turn. Julie answered the 1-800 number and promptly told me she was on vacation but would get this straightened out. Awesome. She called back within an hour stating that Zach verified I needed new tubes and she would send them out immediately. Catch being they only had forest green, I bought light grey. Their website showed grey being in stock. I told Julie I wanted grey, and immediately got radio silence.

I get that there's the fine print, Zach was quick to point that out to me, but It's a one year boat that I bought brand new. If I wanted green I would have bought green. Anyway, I called Judy at AAA to see if she had any advice. With no hesitation, she said come on up, she had a grey one in a box. 

I emailed all involved at RMR about what looked like a possible solution. Julie broke radio silence, AT&T apparently stopped working for a day, and admonished me for getting Judy involved. Zach called and even less tactfully admonished me for getting Judy involved, and the that night Bobby called and went off about me getting Judy involved, saying if she wants to do that its out of her pocket and he has a green one for me.

I got Judy involved because that's where I bought the boat and one of the reasons to shop local is to have an advocate in this type situation. I am still wondering why everyone was so pissed that I called her. Isn't that what anyone would do? I probably should have called her first. Anyway, after being made to feel like I should send apology letters to everyone at RMR, Bobby called back, 15 minutes after the pissed off call, saying Judy had been credited and I could pick up a boat from her whenever.

So...Yes, Rocky Mountain Rafts did do the right thing. I personally don't think it would have happened without Judy at AAA getting involved. All told this took about a month to work out and I'd imagine it could have drug on without Judy. Every time they mishandled an email, call or decision they had an excuse and a very passive way of putting it back on me. I spent a ton of time on the phone, emailing, and driving to get this resolved. Very unnecessary with a brand new boat in my opinion.

We dig our boat, but in hindsight, we would have waited to buy a higher quality boat. Of the 4 RMR's in our crew 3 have had serious problems.


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## griz (Sep 19, 2005)

It would be interesting to know how many folks have to use their warranty with RMR boats. 

Warranties are nice but don't mean spit when your boat is failing you on the river, 60 miles from the takeout.

It's always seemed best to judge boats by the fact you never have to talk to the company again until you want to buy something new, way, way down the road from them.

15+ years of Hyside and Avon for this asshole... never a single warranty issue. Maybe it's luck but doubt it... you get what you pay for is more likely.


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## donutboy (Sep 13, 2015)

*I have a 2012 and have had zero issues.*

I've had my boat now for 6 years. Rogue, Grand Ronde, Deschutes, Klickitat, and Middle Fork rivers. I've left it in the sun a couple of summers on a trailer. I've rolled it a couple of winters in the garage and have had zero issues with the boat. It has exceeded my expectations given what I paid for it. 





griz said:


> It would be interesting to know how many folks have to use their warranty with RMR boats.
> 
> Warranties are nice but don't mean spit when your boat is failing you on the river, 60 miles from the takeout.
> 
> ...


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## Treswright3 (May 20, 2013)

My boat from them was bomber tough. I put it through hell and it never showed any signs of wearing down. I think they are great boats.


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## PhilipJFry (Apr 1, 2013)

my 2015 14' RMR has been down the Main Salmon 4 times, and countless trips on the main payette, southfork payette, and Cabarton stretch of the payette. I've not had a single issue with it. I do keep it trailered and in the garage. I clean it frequently, and I never try to lift it with a load in it (I remove everything from the boat with the exception of the frame.) - she's treated me well.


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## shannon s (Feb 20, 2015)

PhilipJFry said:


> my 2015 14' RMR has been down the Main Salmon 4 times, and countless trips on the main payette, southfork payette, and Cabarton stretch of the payette. I've not had a single issue with it. I do keep it trailered and in the garage. I clean it frequently, and I never try to lift it with a load in it (I remove everything from the boat with the exception of the frame.) - she's treated me well.



I had my boat for 1 year and did one Lodore trip. Never even deflated, except for the seam leak.


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## mtgreenheads (Jul 15, 2011)

My RMR came completely apart, to the point my dealer couldn't believe I had floated in it recently, multiple seam failure. It was trailered, garaged, 303'd, etc. Owner, Denny, told me it was not a manufacturer issue, it was from me pouring "suntan lotion" over the boat and wanted $1300 to replace while still under warranty. I got 2 dealers involved and finally RMR replaced. I feel like without their support, I would probably not have been taken care of. I promptly decided to purchase a Maravia. I sold the replacement RMR boat, in the box, on Craigslist. The purchaser called, and out of the box the replacement boat was defective. This time, RMR replaced without question. Sooo, based on this, will not recommend RMR to anyone.


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## Vasevida (May 2, 2017)

The best kind of boat is one that never has any warranty issues. Working with Hypalon boats, specifically Avon and Hyside. Have never had an issue with a hypalon boat in 27 years boating. Well other than a year or two of Achilles boats when they went under. PVC degrades significantly in the sunlight which seems like a fatal flaw to me personally. I have worked with many materials including PVC in my job and 20+ years of engineering work with these type of materials reinforces this belief. PVC liner and covers rarely make it to warranty, while I have seen lots of instances of CSPE (hypalon) applications that last many, many years past its design life, even when exposed to direct sunlight. Cannot speak for Sotars, they seem pretty good too. Just my 2 cents.


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## CBow (Aug 26, 2007)

I purchased a Blue 16' RMR from DRE in the spring of 2016. I don't boat as much as I used to and have only used this boat on 3 to 4 multiday trips each season over the last 3 summers (Westwater, Lodore, San Juan, Dolores) and a few day trips here and there. I noticed that it was extremely hard to get this boat clean after each use and started noticing that the tubes were getting sticky in certain places as well. I called DRE and asked for some advice on cleaning and was told that there had been an issue with some of the older models leeching glue and that they would forward my e-mails to RMR. I finally got a response after a couple of weeks from Bobby and he stated that I must have gotten an older model and that yes, there had been an issue with the chemistry and that "excessive heat" made the glue leech to the surface of the tube. He said this was a legit warranty issue and sent me a new set of tubes but only had green in stock. I was ok with that but am now wondering what I am getting after reading about all these other issues. I was not planning on opening up the box with the new tubes until next spring as I am done boating for the season but am now wondering if I should get em out and take a look. Like a lot of you folks, I have been boating for decades and have used many boats over the years without out any issues. This is my first PVC boat however and am now wondering if this was a smart purchase.


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## shannon s (Feb 20, 2015)

I suggest everyone pop some popcorn. This is about to get crazy!


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## SherpaDave (Dec 28, 2017)

At least RMR seems to be doing a better job on warranty than Sotar did when they had their issues a few years back.


Cheers,
Dave


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

With the days of material costs rising, driving up the end cost of the product, manufacturers are looking for ways to cut corners. Having been in the industry for years, years ago, I learned a long time ago that you get exactly what you pay for, and just cause you pay thru the wazoo for something, doesn't necessarily mean you got a good product. Companies that have been in business for years and years have been thru the gamut of how to properly build a quality product. Newcomers to the scene, not so much. 



At the end of the day, I've run Avon, Maravia and Hyside and never had even a slight problem with any of them. Avon is no longer, but since being bought by Zodiac, they sell the same pattern boats under the "Mil Spec" name. I'd buy one if I needed one, but Inflatable Technologies in Denver completely restored my old Pro, right down to creating the dies to extrude the original Avon Rub Strake, it's like having a new boat. 



I will give Zach at Raft Fix huge kudos for fixing the tear in my boat after a grand trip this april, he did a nice job for a very reasonable price considering the mess we made trying to patch it on the river, and the fact that he's less than 2 miles from where I live made it an easy decision.. 



I won't even get into SOTAR and their famous "Delamatron" pond liner material LOL


Pray for water this winter !!


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## RMrafts (Feb 12, 2008)

*RMR Customer Service*

We,here at RMR, would like to thank everyone for their comments. The positive comments make us feel that we are accomplishing our goals of providing everyone the opportunity to have a quality raft at an affordable price and to back up our products with great customer service. The negative comments encourage us to recognize that we can do better and to motivate us to continue our efforts to improve both our products and customer service. 

First, many thanks to those of you on this thread who have taken the time to compliment us on our products and customer service! It is much appreciated.

For those of you who have stated some concerns, thanks for your comments also and I’ll try and address them individually. 

Shannon S.: We acknowledge that we could have been more expeditious processing your warranty claim and apologize for taking that length of time (20 days from notification to you receiving a new raft) According to our records, it was 48 hours from the date of your first email to us to your phone call with Bobby. We try and respond to all our customers within 24 hours. Your problem was one that we don’t see often so it took a while to determine the best course of action as there were a couple of options available that complied with our warranty policy. We will surely do better if this issue comes up in the future. We hope you enjoyed your Grand Canyon trip with your new raft!

Griz: Whitewater products get a lot of abuse from both normal operations (slamming cargo laden boats into large rocks, recirculating in powerful hydraulics, floating over miles of rocky river beds, etc.) and sometimes from harsh treatment by owners (leaving your boat bake in the sun all year round, dragging it down boat ramps, securing it to trailers with the handles, over inflating, etc.) We do our best to produce products that mitigate damage from these actions while keeping our prices in an affordable range. We have manufactured over 5000 rafts, cat tubes and IKs over the last 8 years. All our products are welded and assembled by hand so there are going to be some manufacturing issues. Our goal is to keep those issues to less than 3% and we have been pretty close to that. Over the years, we have made significant improvements in our products and material and are constantly striving to bring our customers the best products possible at an affordable price. (As a side note, we did NOT raise our prices in 2019!) If a customer does have a problem, and it's due to a failure on our part, we take care of it during the warranty period. If the boat is out of warranty, we will normally offer the customer a solution to their problem at a VERY reduced cost. 

Mtgreenheads: We are sorry to lose you as a customer and hope you are enjoying your $5000 Maravia raft. They make a very nice product and I congratulate you on your success such that you can afford to pay that much for a raft, and I mean that in all sincerity. In reviewing your post, I see that we serviced your warranty and sent you a new raft at no cost. Your statement that we “wanted $1300 to replace while still under warranty” requires some clarification. That was an offer for you to get a brand-new raft with a brand-new 5-year warranty instead of a new raft with no additional increase in your warranty period, which was nearing its end. We were just offering you an option, not requiring you to pay for a raft that was under warranty.

 Once again, thanks for all your comments. They serve as a valuable tool for us to review and improve our procedures, policies and products. Feel free to contact me anytime at [email protected].


  Happy boating!!
Cheers,
Denny Hugo, Owner


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## Rockgizmo (May 21, 2009)

I bought an RMR back in 2011, when the company was a new local raft company in Colorado. I thought it was a cool idea to be able to support a local Colorado company. I have owned two boats in my short rafting career, an Aire cataraft and a 14’ RMR.

Over the years, I have supported RMR and recommended their product to many people. And yes, I do know Shannon, he and another friend bought RMR boats based on recommendations I gave them on RMR behalf. Recently, he had had an issue with his RMR. The customer service he received was subpar, and it took AAA to get involved before RMR did the right thing. It seems to me RMR doesn’t respect or believe private boaters they are selling their products too. I also have a problem how RMR has not owned up to their manufacturing wrongs- specifically in how they manufactured their 2011 boats and come to find out other years as well. I knew that the D-rings and chaffers on my boat were glued on but everything else was welded. I thought, "Hey it’s still better than a Saturn that’s all glued". After purchasing the raft in Colorado, I added 2 D-rings to help strap my gear load down for multiday trips. I’ve now owned my 14’ RMR for 7 yrs now. It has been down the Grand, Middle Fork Salmon, Lodore and Yampa. Every single year I have ended up re-gluing an original D-ring or spots on the chaffer done by RMR. The D-rings I added or spots on the chaffer I have personally re-glued have been a "one and done" with no problems since, which leads me to believe it is an issue with their manufacturing.

Recently, I became aware of RMR program to buy a new raft at cost in exchange for cutting out the valves and serial number of their older/2011 model and returning it to them. I contacted Bobby about this program and we talked at length. My boat has issues with the gluing but nothing compared to my friend who also owns a 2011 that has come completely apart. RMR instead of repairing their manufacturing have asked him to invest another $1400 in RMR for a newer boat. To be honest I liked the idea of up grading my boat to a newer model but recently I came across “RMR Customer Service” thread here on the Buzz and it is eye opening to see how many people have had issues with RMR boats and their warranty. So, I reached out to Bobby last week in an email, I inquired about the deal some more and to see if we could do a better deal. Since it seems like RMR has continued to have manufacturing issues with their boats, and after reading the Buzz thread, I end up having a big issue with giving them another $1400 for a new boat. When IMHO RMR knew, they had a manufacturing problem with their original boats. Also, it seems to me RMR waited until the manufacturer's warranty ran out on these boats to do anything. So after work I called Bobby to talk about my email and the email he meant to forward to his Warranty Department but replied to me instead (see photo attached). In our conversation, we discussed the issue I had with my boat, in this conversation he also accidently admitted RMR knew about 3-4yrs ago their boats were having gluing issues. My question is why wait to let the hard-working individuals who purchased an RMR boat know about this until after their warranties had already expired? I’d hate to think that this was done so they could continue to make money off the boating community instead of doing the right thing, but it sure seems like it. Also, how RMR talks about their customers internally has solidified my future boat buying.


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## RMrafts (Feb 12, 2008)

*RMR Customer Service*

Buzzards: Sorry for the lengthy posts but we think this is important information for everyone who owns or is considering owning an RMR.

Rockgizmo: Thanks for your support of RMR over the last 7 years! 

If you have never started a manufacturing company from scratch, I can assure you it isn’t easy. It has high capital costs and low margins, at least in the rafting business when your goal is to produce a quality product at an affordable price. It takes years to even turn a profit and I can assure you, I make a lot more money flying 737s as a Southwest Captain than I do manufacturing RMRs. I would have been eating beans and weenies and living in a box if I would have had to rely on my income from RMR the first 5 years of our existence! But, I love rafting and am committed to giving everyone, not only wealthy people, the opportunity to own a quality raft to enjoy the great rivers in our country. 

For many start-ups, the first couple years can be difficult both financially and with trying to get your product up to the quality standards you want. We were no exception and it would have been easy for me to shut it down in the first 3 years. I didn’t need the money, wasn't turning a profit, and it was taking up most of my free time. But, by then we had hundreds of boats on the water and I promised all of you, our customers, I would take care of any manufacturing problems for 5 years and we have done that, despite the time and cost. If I would have closed the company, and I did consider just that, you would have all been left with boats that had some issues and nowhere to go. We are still here, we are still taking care of our customers, and we are still trying to build the best quality boat possible at an affordable price, so more people can afford to enjoy our rivers.

We have made many improvements to our products since we started in 2010. We know our 2011 boats weren't great and we want to take care of those of you who have been with us since the beginning. So, starting in 2018, we have been offering any original owner with an out of warranty, 2011 boat, the opportunity to purchase ANY NEW RMR for half price. That’s about $1400 for a new 14’ boat with a full 5-year warranty. We think this is an extraordinarily generous offer. We also have a layaway program we have offered to those who can’t come up with that sum of money in a short time. Try taking your 7-year-old, out of warranty car with a bad transmission to the dealer you bought it from and see if he will give you a brand-new car with a brand-new warranty for HALF PRICE. I’m thinking you won’t find that kind of deal anywhere. 

As for your assertion we knew of the glue problems and should have recalled our boats, that would have been a very poor business decision for several reasons. First, none of the issues with the 2011s were safety related. The welded main tubes were solid, and the glue issue was with the handles, D-rings and chafers. (In 2012 we started welding the D-rings and handles) These are just not safety related issues and not worthy of a recall. And, they did not affect all boats. So, the purpose of a warranty is to handle these types of issues and anyone who called us with a problem was taken care of under our warranty. I would have closed the business rather than recalling every 2011 boat and you wouldn’t now have a half price boat being offered to you with a 5-year warranty.

I’ll be in Colorado Springs this weekend and would be happy to meet up with you, Shannon, Matt, and any of your other friends who have RMRs and would like to discuss all things RMR and rafting. Pick your favorite Brew Pub and I’ll buy! Just shoot me an email at [email protected].

Thanks again.
Cheers,
Denny
Owner, RMR


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## shannon s (Feb 20, 2015)

"Shannon S.: We acknowledge that we could have been more expeditious processing your warranty claim and apologize for taking that length of time (20 days from notification to you receiving a new raft) According to our records, it was 48 hours from the date of your first email to us to your phone call with Bobby. We try and respond to all our customers within 24 hours. Your problem was one that we don’t see often so it took a while to determine the best course of action as there were a couple of options available that complied with our warranty policy. We will surely do better if this issue comes up in the future. We hope you enjoyed your Grand Canyon trip with your new raft!"

 As I said before, it was 7 days before I heard from Bobby, and that was because I called him. Bobby said the warranty form on your website didn't work. Glad I called, huh? I emailed him after that conversation and then called him back after 48 hours. The only time anyone from RMR called me was at the end of the process after I got Judy from AAA involved. If you're going to cite the process you should make sure the process works.

I find it odd that the only emails you guys will send out are the ones calling a customer a liar and telling your staff not to respond because it will get posted on the buzz. Oh wait, that was a mistake.

I understand the desire of not leaving a paper trail. Wasn't it just last week, that Julie told a guy she'd get his falling apart boat fixed? Only to renege on the deal after this post comes out. Unfortunately her offer to fix the boat was verbal on the phone, even though she was asked for an email.

The offer of $1,400 to buy back a boat that shouldn't be failing is great. I'd imagine that's the same thing a dealer gets them for, so doesn't really seem like much skin off you guys' back. 

Maybe try laying off the snark a little when responding to people telling their story about your product. You guys have a ton of excuses and I'm sure it's challenging starting your own boat company, but... it was your idea.


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## Lebowski (Aug 19, 2015)

For what it's worth, I have a 2013 14' that I bought in 2014. It's been a bomber boat and I've had zero problems with it. Trailered and transported throughout the west in the summer, rolled in the winter.


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## Whitewater Worthy Equip (Dec 11, 2013)

We’ve sold lots of RMR boats and have had great experience. We were not selling their boat in the “early years”. From a dealer perspective they have been very responsive and easy to work with. We also have a number of their boats in our personal fleet and continue to be impressed with the quality. 

I have been approached by a few people that ended up with second hand boats from the glue issue years and recommended they contact RMR directly before attempting any fix. They reported that RMR offered them a solution that was both fair and reasonable. 

I feel for people that have bad customer service experience as most people have had more than one. It really sucks to feel taken advantage of when you spend your hard earned money on a product and don’t feel issues are addressed appropriately.


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## sbtm (Jan 28, 2016)

I just bought a 14' RMR. I know a couple of guys who have their boats and are happy campers. I am expecting years of enjoyment out of mine. 

Customer service the hardest part of owning and running a business. There will be people who do not complain even though they had a terrible experience, and then people who are like babies, where they shit themselves, you clean it up, and still all they do is cry.

Good on ya RMR for trying to clear the air here.


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## yesimapirate (Oct 18, 2010)

I'm not a big defender of a businesses, but let's have some perspective people. The "customer is always right" mentality is extremely delicate for businesses to deal with. Not every company has the ability to absorb the returns like Walmart and Amazon, or have a 24x7 staff to address concerns on your time. Hell even REI doesn't do the unlimited warranty anymore. The fact that RMR is on here responding, owning up to mistakes, trying to make things right with those effected by their mistakes(even outside of warranty periods), and not ignoring them is HUGE in my book. I'm not saying they are saints. I think they've admitted that.

Perspective example 1: After a re-roofing in July of this year, I have solar panels collecting dust on the side of my house because I can't get Tesla out to re-install them until the end of May of 2019. And getting that install date took 4 phone calls that were 2+ hours each. They gave me a certified 3rd party installer's number as an alternative, and I can't even get them to call me back.

Perspective example 2: Our pop-up camper broke the weekend of FIBARK. The only people in town that would fix took almost 3 months to fix after quoting me 3 weeks, and were 40% over what the said it would cost. Multiple times they went weeks at a time without getting back to me. 

Yes, the examples aren't identical, but you get the point. Other companies can be way less responsive. I'm not gonna hold it against RMR if they have 1 manager and he's not able to respond for 7 days. Could've been on vaca as previously said. Could've been swamped. Could've been that he had to discuss internally with parties that were OOO. Possibilities are many with a small business. 

Shannon/Rockgizmo's case is obviously ugly, but you have gotten their attention. Was Bobby's mistaken supposed-to-be-internal email wrong for him to say if it was really kept internal? I don't know. I've said some mean shit internally that doesn't make it external. I bet many of us have. Was it right to share that publicly? That's Rockgizmo's decision. I probably would not have, but I am also not in his/her place.

Conclusion - I don't own a RMR, but I have sent several friends their way for purchases, and will continue to do so. For the price, their product(after 2011-2012) seems very solid. I would highly consider them on my next inflatable purchase... if the wife let's me have any more.


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## griz (Sep 19, 2005)

RMR, if 3% of your boats have manufacturing issues then basically 1 out of every 33 boats you sell is defective in some way. 

That's not very impressive.

FWIW, I had a relatively positive view of RMR rafts until this thread. Now, much less.

And thanks for the lesson how rafts are used, treated and all, bro. Who knew they hit rocks and shit?!!!! Eye opening stuff to a guy who started running rivers four decades ago. Learn something new every day. 

Anyway, from what I've read here from both sides....do better or go home.


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## Liquido (Feb 27, 2012)

RMrafts said:


> We,here at RMR, would like to thank everyone for their comments. The positive comments make us feel that we are accomplishing our goals of providing everyone the opportunity to have a quality raft at an affordable price and to back up our products with great customer service. The negative comments encourage us to recognize that we can do better and to motivate us to continue our efforts to improve both our products and customer service.
> 
> First, many thanks to those of you on this thread who have taken the time to compliment us on our products and customer service! It is much appreciated.
> 
> ...


Since I know what it's like to have to post here or ask for a vendor's help to get decent customer service I'll chime in. First off I'd suggest RMR newer rafts to friends. I did Lodore last year with a guy who had a new one from DRE and was impressed. Particularly with the floor. 

That said, telling customers who are already frustrated that you're doing them a favor by being in the business and that you could make more money doing something else does sound like something Scadden would say. Offering a discount on a new boat when all a person wants is to get a problem addressed isn't going to be well received by all. If I spend $1700 on a boat and ask for it to be fixed under warranty only to get an offer on a newer boat at $1400, I might not feel like I'm getting a good deal on what would now be $3100. If you want to have everyone celebrate your awesomeness just comp the amount spent on the jacked up boat towards a new boat at the reduced cost. 

Saying that more expensive boats are for the "wealthy" is BS. Some like to buy a higher quality product like Aire, Sotar or Maravia be it used of new. I'd rather have a used Maravia than a new RMR, but that's just me. 

Cheers to all and good luck to RMR figuring out their CS. I'm guessing Quality Control for boats made in China isn't easy. 1 out of 33 seems really good if it's true. 

JJ


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## Critter70 (Nov 22, 2016)

Few things can make me angrier then bad customer service, especially on a big expensive purchase. That being said, seldom have I seen the owner of a company, come on a public forum to address the issues being raised, opening themselves up to any and all points of view PUBLICLY!! In my opinion huge props to RMR for not just standing by their product but by trying to own and address consumers concerns about their product. Not only that but from what I see genuinely reaching out to make it right the best way possible. I’ve been in this game for 30 years, don’t own an RMR but recommend them without hesitation to many friends, and after seeing this thread will whole heartedly do so in the future.
To the staff at RMR, well played in my book, way to stand behind your product and welcome insight and feedback for a better future. Keep it up, very refreshing to see personally.


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## yesimapirate (Oct 18, 2010)

griz said:


> RMR, if 3% of your boats have manufacturing issues then basically 1 out of every 33 boats you sell is defective in some way.
> 
> That's not very impressive.


I don't know why I feel compelled to defend again, but here I go.

If you are calling a 3% "issue" rate bad, what grounds do you have to go on? Are you aware of other inflatable boat manufacturer's "issue" rates? Do you work in the industry to speak to the standards? I don't suspect we'll get other manufacturers to chime in, but do you think they are error free in their production regardless of whether made in the Asia's or US? 

I think back to business classes where tolerances and failures are discussed in lots of industries. Six Sigma and such. It's never a true 0% failure. It's always a goal of working towards 0%.

Not personally knowing these inflatable industry stats I still have a hunch that 3% is very much an accepted rate. RMR doesn't get a free pass just because they're newer. I assume their business plan allotted for mistakes in the early years. That's why I think, overall, you see them here trying to correct their mistakes which is better than many businesses do. And as the owner said, they're working towards making better products.


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## yesimapirate (Oct 18, 2010)

And I assume it was meant as a joke, but this isn't the Dave Scadden mess. This is an owner being open and honest.


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## Liquido (Feb 27, 2012)

yesimapirate said:


> And I assume it was meant as a joke, but this isn't the Dave Scadden mess. This is an owner being open and honest.


I found some of his comments to be arrogant and scaddenesque, but I respect your opinion.


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## donutboy (Sep 13, 2015)

*20 bucks says that these folks posting Neg. and trying to play angles use Yelp poorly*

Just a hunch


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## Randaddy (Jun 8, 2007)

As a long time 'buzzard and RMR user I thought I'd give my two cents. I manage an outfitter on the New and Gauley Rivers 7 months a year. We know Bobby well and started demoing RMR rafts a few years ago. They have been outstanding. Guides love them, they suffer heavy use impossibly well, and we trust their construction in wild and remote places on hard whitewater. 

We also pay less than we would if we continued to go with Hyside, NRS, Sotar, etc. and are able to keep a newer, fresher, warranteed fleet of boats in inventory.

I'm stoked on RMR - and after test driving a duckie and 12 foot raft this season, plan to make a personal purchase soon! Thanks RMR for giving the inflatable consumer another quality option at a good price!


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## wariverdog (Sep 2, 2014)

I've had a 2011 14' RMR since new. It's been stored on a trailer, rolled in the garage, and left outside with no cover. It's been down deep rivers, shallow rivers, hit rocks, and been puked on. The boat has never let us down. Never. It does not leak at all. I called Bobby a few days ago to talk about the 2011 exchange program because I was curious. He answered on the 3rd ring and jumped right in to rafting talk even though is was nearly 8pm in WVA. It sounds like the 2018 boats are MUCH better than the first batch, in both quality and design. I made the jump for a freshie and I'm now very much looking forward to my new orange 14 footer and a green Cloud Nine. I would recommend RMR boats without hesitation.


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## Z_in_MT (Mar 30, 2017)

Interesting thread. I want to thank all the people posting issues and success stories with RMR. I also appreciate RMR's responses. It sounds like you are working hard to build a great company and I think that's pretty respectable. I can't imagine how difficult it is to manufacture these boats. 



It has been good to see the history and challenges/successes of RMR. Sounds like things are starting to go good, and hopefully those older boats that are haunting you will soon be taken care of! 



I'm looking forward to buying a set of 14' RMR cat tubes to add to my quiver. Just trying to collect enough dolla-dolla-bills y'all! Looking at my options though, I cannot justify the cost for Sotar/Aire. Seems like RMR will be around a while and will stand behind their products, and that means a lot to me. 

Thanks Shannon S, Rockgizmo, Denny and Bobby for chiming in. And Tress33 who ended up pretty happy after starting this thread!


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## Kilroy (Oct 23, 2011)

RMR is a great boat in our experience (i have 3), and Denny is quite a personable & level headed guy as opposed to some of the other turds out there in the industry. I know he has quite the passion for boating, and his customers. This too will pass as reputation will prevail. Shit happens and we all know you just can't please everyone 100% of the time. 

Sent from my SM-G960U using Mountain Buzz mobile app


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## rtsideup (Mar 29, 2009)

100% Respect for Denny.
He isn't in it for the money, he wants to make happy boaters.
I've hung out with him, stayed at his place in CB. 
He's really trying to deliver a cost effective, quality boat to us delinquents. Not an easy task.
I've got two RMR boats and the fit and finish is perfect on both.
As Denny has said himself; if you've got really deep pockets, go Hypalon.


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## NoCo (Jul 21, 2009)

Isn't in it for the money!!!! Haha. You better be in it for money or you'll be out!!!

My pockets arnt deep and I push rubber not plastic. Been fun reading this thread. 

Rmr responding to all the critism does give me mixed feelings. It's good to represent and defend one's self but why doesn't nrs, hyside, maravia, or sotar do it? Maybe by coming on here and representing themselves shows that they don't feel that they are above us. That's cool. Or maybe they represent themselves here so we don't start calling there products trash. I really don't feel either way. I will never have a rmr cause I will continue to find hypolon cause pvc just isn't as good so them impressing me really does not matter, but it did make me contemplate weather responding to everything is a good public relations practice. 

And for the 3% failure rate over 5 years. As a mechanic, I wish the product line I fixed only had 3% failure, or maybe I don't cause I'd have to find something else to do if it did. 3% really isn't bad,. And if it is then that's why you have a warranty!


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## Wiggins (Sep 26, 2009)

How do you tell if your boat was a 2011? I bought mine in 2012, but I think it was part of an end of year sale to clear out old stock.

Kyle


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## newpc (Aug 3, 2009)

Wiggins said:


> How do you tell if your boat was a 2011? I bought mine in 2012, but I think it was part of an end of year sale to clear out old stock.
> 
> Kyle


It is in the serial number, typically the last 2 digits, depending on manufacturer.


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