# CANCELLED - Lochsa 2011 boating season



## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

I just thought I'd let all you know that if Imperial Oil/Exxon Megal Hauls are allowed, they will be most likely be barricading virtually every pull-off along the Lochsa river (along with the Clearwater and Blackfoot along 200 - Hello, "A River Runs Through It"). The barricades will prevent use 24/7, no parking your vehicles there, no using it for river access. They might let you pass through, but what good is that since vehicles are needed for boating? Don't think you'll be able to park on the side of the road either, they will need to be keeping that clear for passage for the rigs.

Conoco-Philips has 2 loads going to Billings starting tonight, and has the same approval (and plan to do so) to barricade the pullouts. Picture how long it will take 207 rigs to go by. Likely a year or longer. Even if they only move at night, they will be parking during the day at the larger pull outs (including the main put-in @ Fish Creek). More details to come.

Let your voice be heard, tell the forest service that this impact to people is not acceptable. Tell ITD and MDT that this is not acceptable, they MUST plan their shipments to not utilize the significantly used pull outs (whether boating, fishing, swimming, etc) for day time staging and not allow them to barricade pull outs during the day. Public use of our roads and rivers must be maintained. 

All Against The Haul


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## kayakfreakus (Mar 3, 2006)

That sucks, unbelievably so. Signed the petition and will start calling/emailing parties involved once done with work.

Lameness abounds.


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## Whoapiglet (Aug 23, 2010)

I just signed the petition as well.


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## pinemnky13 (Jun 4, 2007)

Signed


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## 4CRS (Apr 16, 2010)

Signed


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## willieboater (Sep 8, 2006)

signed!


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## BmfnL (May 23, 2009)

Done. Bull-headed industry can suck it.


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## Osprey (May 26, 2006)

that is jacked. signed.


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## colomega (Mar 15, 2008)

Signed and sent the link to my river buddies who head towards the Lochsa on Memorial Day weekend.


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## catboatkeith (Jun 11, 2010)

Signed, hope to still play this spring, somehow!


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## GearDog (Jun 3, 2009)

Signed


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## Riparian (Feb 7, 2009)

Done. Douchebaggery must be confronted.


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## twitch (Oct 16, 2003)

Signed.


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## lmyers (Jun 10, 2008)

Signed and shared.


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## caverdan (Aug 27, 2004)

signed!!!


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## lmaciag (Oct 10, 2003)

Signed.


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## hkydef (Jun 7, 2006)

signed + forwarded.


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## malloypc (Jun 6, 2009)

signed & shared on FB


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## jboats (Apr 5, 2006)

signed and screw them....


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## raftus (Jul 20, 2005)

signed


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## frontrangefred (Apr 18, 2006)

Signed - Commercial use of public roadways should not come at the cost of public access to public lands.


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## Schenker (Mar 21, 2010)

signed and forwarded


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## jerbsen (Sep 10, 2010)

signed


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## jkodadek (Jul 19, 2006)

There is zero chance that these things will keep people off the Lochsa.

Most of the pullouts are way too small for these things. Fish Creek (the put in) is also not among the closed pullouts, at least as far as I have seen. 

Don't get me wrong, I am seriously opposed to the whole thing, but making shit up is stupid, unhelpful, and counterproductive.


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## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

jkodadek said:


> There is zero chance that these things will keep people off the Lochsa.
> 
> Most of the pullouts are way too small for these things. Fish Creek (the put in) is also not among the closed pullouts, at least as far as I have seen.
> 
> ...


I think you have a bit of learning to do. Granted, my titled was to encourage people to read the post, but also to convey the seriousness of the impact of the future hauls. 

Maybe if you read the news, you'd see what is easily found by anyone. I'll be posting more information as my review of Exxon's transportation plan proceeds. It is going to be important that boaters deluge the officials, and Exxon actually, to demand that the main pullouts be maintained free and clear during the day, and they do not use our critical boating ones for day-time parking.

Pdf : ConocoPhillips megaload route map

Fish creek is scheduled for parking THIS FRIDAY, as in two days from now. There is some other information that speculates they will actually be at MP 126 (logjam), but I'm not sure of the accuracy of that. What I have on this haul is what's in the paper, I have not yet reviewed the Conoco transport plan and I'm not going to, since my focus is the 207 + 60 + infinity shipments following. I'll have more details on Exxon's Idaho transporation plan later, however it will inevitably change through planning, and see my comments later, they'll do whatever the hell they want wherever they want when they get on the road.

The transportation plans make it clear all parking locations are "tentative", and I expect (although haven't yet seen that language, it is inevitable as even Conoco has admitted things may change) if they need to park in ANY of their designated pullouts, they will. 

Thanks for "motto", I love it!

Note the articles and photos in today's Missoulian, they had to groom the snowbanks on the sides of the road to make room. The modules are even wider than that (but up higher) so many of those "too small" pullouts will be off limits also if there is any chance they'll obstruct passage.


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## watermonkey (Aug 11, 2009)

signed


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## jkodadek (Jul 19, 2006)

Thanks for posting that link, I hadn't seen it. I guess I was wrong about Fish Creek, that sucks bad.

However, I still maintain that this mess won't actually keep us off the river this spring, but it WILL definitely detract from the whole experience. 

Thanks for your efforts in this matter. I sent you a PM.


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## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

It won't keep us off, those of us that know other places to put on, but how many boats and rigs will clog those places? Where are the commercials going to go? I am concerned about split creek (this year's new barricades make me worried they are going to use that other side), and Knife Edge. Thankfully knife edge is an actual campground, along with the huge pullout, so that seems reasonable to maintain access. 

Oh, it won't keep us off unless they block the road from Missoula, or dump one in the river, or destroy the road or a bridge. However there is always backrounds, I can't remember the name but there's a serious of dirt roads off the north starting around Lochsa Lodge. Very long, and very slow, perhaps half a day.

Or boat the St. Joe, or the SF Clearwater. Losing the lochsa for even a year will rip my heart open.


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## jkodadek (Jul 19, 2006)

lhowemt said:


> I am concerned about split creek (this year's new barricades make me worried they are going to use that other side)


I was at the Lochsa Lodge last weekend. There is a rumor circulating that they are trying to close the Split Creek pullout/parking area due to "safety concerns" unrelated to the big rigs. Smells like absolute bullshit to me.


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## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

jkodadek said:


> I was at the Lochsa Lodge last weekend. There is a rumor circulating that they are trying to close the Split Creek pullout/parking area due to "safety concerns" unrelated to the big rigs. Smells like absolute bullshit to me.


Well, that is a total cluster-f&@k there, I wouldn't be surprised if there have been complaints from truckers. It seems some more barricades, separating the parking from the road would help.

Thanks for the tip, just another reason to push as united boaters to represent our needs to ITD, and esp with Split Cr, to work towards solutions together.


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## billfish (Nov 22, 2009)

*signed and forwarded*



Schenker said:


> signed and forwarded


 
signed and forwarded to a lot of idaho voters


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## jonpowder (Dec 10, 2008)

Dont we need gas and oil to drive to the put out and keep our house warm. Im just say-in.


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## MountainMedic (Apr 24, 2010)

signed


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## blutzski (Mar 31, 2004)

signed


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## studytime (Oct 4, 2010)

jonpowder said:


> Dont we need gas and oil to drive to the put out and keep our house warm. Im just say-in.


We need water to drink but that doesnt mean we should drain the Lochsa to get it.


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## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

billfish said:


> signed and forwarded to a lot of idaho voters


Can you recommend other groups to send a call to action to? I'm not keyed into the kayaking internet (esp MT/Idaho), and as more information comes to light it would be nice to let people know the impact this could/will have to long term river access.


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## billfish (Nov 22, 2009)

lhowemt said:


> Can you recommend other groups to send a call to action to? I'm not keyed into the kayaking internet (esp MT/Idaho), and as more information comes to light it would be nice to let people know the impact this could/will have to long term river access.


 
pm sent


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## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

*Here's the latest on the Exxon plan*

I’ve done quick review of the Idaho Transportation plan for Exxon and have some information to report about their proposed uses of pullouts on the Lochsa. Note that there seem to be some inconsistencies, but this is the best info I have right now. This information is for the Exxon shipments, which may happen who knows when, but it could be this spring. The Conoco plan is quite a bit different (1 truck enroute, 1 more leaves Mon night), and to me this points out that while Exxon may not be planning on using Fish creek as a day stop, the next company, or the next, may do so. Each one may be different, and things may change when they are actually on the ground.


108.3, Knife Edge, no information if they will block the campground/river access.
109.9. This is the big turnaround spot just downstream of the little 110 takeout. I think we can expect the 110 takeout to be blocked to maintain clearance for the module.
112.4. I don’t recall any pullout there, but at least it’s not split creek.
113.2, this is about at Old Man Rapid
114.1, you guessed it, Lochsa Falls
116, Grim Reaper
117.6, just downstream of Morning Glory
120.3, yup, Fish Creek
124.2, WTF this is just upstream of Ten Pin. Maybe they’re actually planning Xmas rapid.
126.9, before the turn into Log Jam
128.1, no pullover, 3 lanes will allow them to stay on the road and clear traffic with 1 lane. @ County corner
130.4 no pullover, 3 lanes will allow them to stay on the road and clear traffic with 1 lane. @ Triple Hole
133.5, no pullover, 3 lanes will allow them to stay on the road and clear traffic with 1 lane. @ Stanley Cr.
136.1, no pullover, 3 lanes will allow them to stay on the road and clear traffic with 1 lane. @ Rocky corner, so may affect that access.
139, Night park at White Pine.

Please keep in mind that this is really not a distinct, xxx.x mile mark impact. The Conoco convey is a mile or more longer so far. They will be blocking quite a long sec tion of high way in front and behind the convey. This is not a small impact.


Please spread the word and start rattling the cages of ITD and the Forest Service. We must maintain access to the river, not only on weekends but weekdays during boating season. I expect fishing people have their own schedule of interest, along with general tourism.

The latest news is that Conoco is not staging at Fish Creek tomorrow, but at MP126. Time will tell where they actually end up


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## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

studytime said:


> We need water to drink but that doesnt mean we should drain the Lochsa to get it.


Brilliant! We also need food but we don't eat each other.


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## dirtbagkayaker (Oct 29, 2008)

I must have missed something cuz what I read states that the section from Three Rivers to The Lochsa lodge would be impacted for about 48 to 72 hours and durring mid week. What Infromation do you guys have that would suggest that the whole 2011 boating season would be closed???


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## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

I titled this thread "cancelled" to draw attention to likelihood that the Exxon and later hauls will have a major negative impact on river access. Right now there are 2 loads passing through, a smaller Conoco haul that is going to Billings. They have one load going up the Lochsa tonight and tomorrow night, the second load will go up next Wed/Thur, and then two more loads later in the spring. They have actually made an effort to go from their original plan of completely barricading everything they are using (both "clear" pullouts where they pull half way off the road to let traffic pass along with their daytime parks where they will be fully off the road, but only by 8 feet), to apparently mellowing out. After some legal and administrative battles, their loads have been given a pass and are no longer being contested. Maybe that's why they aren't being as hard core as they could be, the opposition has made it clear that the focus is no longer on them. There is a lot of stuff going on still, to monitoring the time they delay traffic, to rallies and probably some protestors.

So we turn to the Exxon loads, who will have 1-2 rigs going every day. That means they will need double the number of "day park" spots, probably increasing impact to our access.

It is highly likely their haul will be tied up in court for a while, maybe through this boating season, so it may not be a problem this boating season, just the next, and the next, and so on.

We MUST get ITD and the FS to support our right of unfettered access to the river. They should plan their day stops so they don't impact river access and not barricade their "clear" spots during the day. It wouldn't be too hard to post signage that there is no night parking (which nobody really does anyway), and add a tow truck or two to their menagerie to pull any they find out, and then they can turn around and put them back afterwards with a nice sweet fine that goes in the gov't coffers. Win Win. Sure, there are always going to be some people that just HAVE to get in the way, but that is inevitable. Turning the Lochsa corridor into a traffic police state to prevent a few actions certainly isn't justified in my opinion to have such a negative impact on use. 

My information is the EA and Traffic Control plan. Both the latest documents, and while I'm well aware it is changing and a moving target, it's the only submitted info out there.

Ideally, no permanent industrial corridor. That's my dream. Alternately, just let us keep using our public lands and our wild and scenic river. Work within the current paradigm, don't obliterate it.

There's also the issue of impact to campers (oh yeah, and the people that live FEET from the route), since a mile long caravan lit up like a city, honking LOUD horns constantly and such will be going by every night (possible two a night). Their plan says they'll try to minimize light, tip them down, blah blah blah, but if you look at the photos of Conoco's haul, it's full on lighting, full up, out, down, no shielding, nothing.


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## dirtbagkayaker (Oct 29, 2008)

So we should make this a big deal because??? I mean the Big salmon above Riggins has had access issues for years and up here is Spokane and new bridge has made access to deaddog difficult at best. Another new bridge has access blocked on the Spokane river at barker street for three years now. It seems like a small issue to raise such a big stink about, I guess I don't get it! In a year from now everything will be back to normal business. seems like a small price to me. I'll float the lochsa this spring and so be it if I need to "adjust" my schedule. There are ton of rivers and creeks to run that time of year anyway. Seems like this is just another way to promote negativity though out the kayaking community. And pit "us" against "them." This type of action takes away from more positive long term ventures because we are causing problems with entities that could become our allies in the future. Just saying. cheers


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## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

Oh silly me. I hadn't realized Exxon-Mobile/Imperial Oil could be our ALLY. Wow, hook me into that connection, OK? 

By working on maintaining access we are being positive. Contrary to just laying down and bitching about poor access elsewhere, and setting that as your target. Access issues are difficult, we really are nobody to Exxon, and so strength and voices in numbers will be more effective.

I certainly hope we have clear access this year. And the next. And the next. Wouldn't it be nice if Lochsa boaters organized and were able to start working with ITD regarding access issues in general? Instead of just showing up and finding barricades at Split Cr like we did this year? There's also working with the Forest Service, to maintain dispersed camping and not have that shut down. It's a pretty linear resource, and around the nation those tend to be the first places regulations are tightened.


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## emelson (Jan 11, 2011)

Laura's right. Staying positive is what is needed most right now. The more voices we can get to be heard the more big oil will hate to deal with this issue. They expect little opposition. That is why this Saturday, a rally is scheduled to take place on Lolo Pass to show local opposition to these loads and the precedence this will set for future permanent routes along HWY12. From All Against The Haul:

Join All Against The Haul, the No Shipments Network, and Northern Rockies Rising Tide for a peaceful rally at Lolo Pass, where we'll make it clear that Exxon and Conoco's plans for Montana's rivers, communities and roads are unacceptable. (Idaho too!)

Bring signs, banners, instruments, and most importantly, bring a friend! Oh, and don't forget your skis and snowshoes...(or boats)

CARPOOLING:
Meet at 11:30 on the top level of the Millennium Parking Garage in downtown Missoula next to the new First Interstate Bank Building and Hunter Bay Coffee. Cars headed for Lolo Pass will leave promptly at 12 noon. Click here for a map: Carpool Meet-Up Location for Lolo Pass Rally - Google Maps

PLEASE NOTE:
The date of this rally is dependent on the progress of the megaloads. Please stay tuned to updates on the All Against The Haul website (All Against The Haul | All Against The Haul) and facebook page (All Against The Haul | Facebook).

Also, for all the Missoulians out there, tomorrow is First Friday. All Against The Haul will be selling the newly releases book written by Rick Bass and David James Duncan titled The Heart of The Monster. Proceeds from the sales of these LIMITED PRODUCTION books written by two of the most iconic North West authors directly benefit All Against The Haul's efforts. Come grab a copy and learn more about the implication of having these loads permanently alter access to our rivers, camping areas, and scenic highways. 

On a different note, if you want to contact the Clearwater National Forest and work toward a FS/Boater partnership, contact the Developed Recreation Manager at Powell, or the Forest Supervisor in Orifino. Both are great people. 

See all you cats downtown tomorrow night, and on the pass Saturday!

End Rant.


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## Anchorless (Aug 3, 2010)

When this fails, boaters need to organize their own version of a "critical mass" and just raise hell this spring and summer.


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## lncoop (Sep 10, 2010)

lhowemt said:


> Can you recommend other groups to send a call to action to? I'm not keyed into the kayaking internet (esp MT/Idaho), and as more information comes to light it would be nice to let people know the impact this could/will have to long term river access.


Trout Unlimited maybe? They might have zero interest, but doesn't hurt to ask.


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## Anchorless (Aug 3, 2010)

lhowemt said:


> Can you recommend other groups to send a call to action to? I'm not keyed into the kayaking internet (esp MT/Idaho), and as more information comes to light it would be nice to let people know the impact this could/will have to long term river access.


Idaho Rivers United; Idaho Conservation League are the two obvious choices.


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## emelson (Jan 11, 2011)

Nez Perce Tribe could be an ally, as could the Clearwater Basin Collaborative, Save our Wild Salmon, Great Burn Study Group, Wilderness Society, any and all Outfitters and Guides who use HWY12, The Nature Conservancy, Clearwater/Nez Perce National Foreses and Friends of the Clearwater to name a few.


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## dirtbagkayaker (Oct 29, 2008)

lhowemt said:


> Oh silly me. I hadn't realized Exxon-Mobile/Imperial Oil could be our ALLY. Wow, hook me into that connection, OK?
> 
> QUOTE]
> Why Not! How much of there gas are you gona buy this year??? Consider yourself hooked up!! Your boat, paddle, polypro, helmet, ect... are all made of oil.


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## dirtbagkayaker (Oct 29, 2008)

My bitch here is that; treads like this are no better than government propaganda. You use some catchy slogan that is a lie to get the masses to stay uneducated to the overall big picture. Just to promote your narrow view of a certain situation. The truth is that “the 2011 boating season is NOT closed.” The truth is that several communities along the Clearwater corridor will experience a brief influx of cash to their strained economies. The truth is that we all use oil. And the truth is that the oil companies want you to email someone else with your issues and continue buying oil. Emailing IDT or USFS is pointless. This pushes the problem of dealing with the public from EXXON to a third party. This planned transport has been in the works for years and you all are just now bitching about it. Get real! It’s just too late. If you really want to invoke change, stop the hollow symbolism that emails represent. Start making discussions that make a real impact. Stop using the products that these corporations produce. My guess is that YOU are putting the money in EXXON’s pockets every day. My guess is that you are addicted to oil and you have falsely disconnected yourself from any responsibility of that addiction. This so reminds me of the smoker who gets lung cancer after 20 years of smoking and blames the tobacco company and continues to smoke. You have demanded low priced oil and in order to get it, you have been inconvenienced, so someone must pay. The truth here is that we are all to blame and we will all continue to buy oil. Or well we?????


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## emelson (Jan 11, 2011)

Collaboration between stakeholders is never 'pointless' dirtbag. by bringing the concerns of IDT, Forest Service, Nez Perce Tribe and others to EXXON we are using them as an ally to accomplish what different user groups desire, ie boating access to the Lochsa. This is by no means an effort to dump the responsibility to a third party for all the bitching and moaning, rather an effort to cooperate and accomplish realistic goals. 

I am addicted to oil as nearly everyone in our country is. I use petroleum products everyday, even to transcribe this reply. We are all in dire need to lift our dependence on oil, foreign oil most importantly and that is one of the benefits of the EXXON Tar Sands in Canada, it's keeping the oil production closer to home for the US. Peak Oil will surely fuck us big time, and until then lessening our need for the slimy substance is all we can do. We're beating a dead horse here, everyone knows this. 

One major concern I have about this is the precedence this will set for an established route through my community and my work area. I'm a Wilderness Ranger in the Selway-Bitterroot and drive HWY12 nearly every 10 days in the summer. Sometimes I get off hitches late in the evening and drive back to Missoula, the exact time when these rigs will be driving the same route, traveling 5mph or slower, causing tremendous stress to the road surface and potential hazards to vehicles sharing the road. You may have never driven the Lochsa and don't understand the true Wild and Scenic nature of the river corridor, or the sheer curves and twists the road makes, but I assure you it is no place for loads of this size to travel safely. Every year at lease one truck slides off the road and into the Lochsa. Imagine what one of these loads would do to the river if it fell in? 

It's a shame that these drilling components had to be made in Korea first off then shipped here, and that American industry has outsourced so much we can no longer produce the equipment we once could. 

It's positive attitudes like yours dirtbag that will help us protect our favorite rivers and communities. Thanks for getting involved!


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## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

*Mega Load - MEGA FAILURE*

Megaloads caused delays, scraped against rocks | KREM 2 News | KREM.com | When it Matters Most | News

Oops, maybe they should have asked someone what the roadway is like


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## Alphacyber (Mar 18, 2010)

So, why is it that narrow mountain roads were chosen as the ideal way to transport freaking huge cargo? Anyone who'd actually driven the road could have seen problems like that coming.


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## dirtbagkayaker (Oct 29, 2008)

emelson, I was rasied in Lewiston and know the Selway-Bitterroot area and the winding road very well. I am aware that a gas truck tanked in the river a couple years ago and it's not the only one to do so. It wont be the last. If I really had my way, I'd rip out the whole stinking HWY 12 and make the river a wilderness run. I aready feel that too many people boat the river as it is. Now I don't believe "colaboration" is pointless. I believe that "hollow emails" have no real effect. If we want to make change we need to go beyond emails. Emailing a government intity is about as effective as putting a "Breast Cancer Awareness Magnet" on your car. Most of the money goes to the manufacture who made it. It to, is a hollow jesture with no real action behind it. The manget should read "support your locol bumber stick company." Mass Emails are the same way.


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## dirtbagkayaker (Oct 29, 2008)

The clearwater corador was choosin because it is the path of least resestance. They can use the seaport in Lewiston and there are fewer power lines over the road. And few obsticals in general. At least that what I've heard. Don't know for sure. But HWY 12 was built to provide transport of goods and services from Lewiston to Montana. Not exclussivly to provide access to floaters of the Lochsa.


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## slickhorn (Dec 15, 2005)

dirtbag,

You sound like just the kind of person that makes America great. Don't try to change anything, don't try to have your voice heard, just take what the oil companies choose to give you. It isn't clear at all that you understand why this is a problem. Apparently, since other rivers are available at the same time as the Lochsa, it doesn't matter how impacted the Lochsa is? What happens when those other available rivers are also trashed for private industry? Eventually, you'll have no rivers left at all. Sounds like you should understand that, given the list of access problems you mention. 

The only serious argument I've heard in favor of these shipments is the token local revenue. I agree that's nice, especially in this economy. You gotta look at the whole picture though, and in my opinion, the small economic boost is not sustained or broad enough to justify the risk to the whole resource. 

Just my $0.02. If the only people allowed to oppose this were people completely independent of oil consumption, well, there wouldn't be opposition a'tall. Does that make this right?


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## dirtbagkayaker (Oct 29, 2008)

Slickhorn, Thanks I guess??? I believe that I make a huge impact. I use less energy to 99% of the population. I have spoken with real live people on access issues and I have shown up to many meetings that impact access when all my friends just emailed. What I am saying here is "go beyond the email and stop the propaganda" stop pitting everything in a negitive light from a community that stops at an email, this makes it every difficult to bring any other options to the table in a real face to face meeting. We have a new bridge being built here in spokane. There was a access issue. It was very difficult for our group to even speek with the designers of the bridge because of all the negitive email traffic generated. Once all the nagativity was clear up we were able to get the designer to actully improve the putin. But that was a lot of work. Then another bridge project came up and there was a play spot under it. Again the major obsticale we faced in saving the feature was the negativitly created by emails. Most of the time when I speak with real live people, they are suprized that all we want is to be able to get to the river. They always are prepared for the "tree hugger" that wants to stop everything. That is the barrier I face.


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## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

All very good points. However the place to start is to document public sentiment (email, phone, letter), then yes, people need to show up. The oil companies are claiming the opposition is all out of state environmentalists, and that is not true. We need to show it, and people from out of state that do comment need to emphasize their right to comment on a federal road, and a federal wild and scenic river, and federal FS land access issues. If you can, show up at rallies, at meetings, at hearings, everything. Since you know this, I expect you'll be there when the time comes.


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## slickhorn (Dec 15, 2005)

I don't really get your point dirtbagkayaker. One the one hand, you are clearly superior to the rest of us, since you "use less energy to 99% of the population" (I guess we'll just take your word?) and yet on the other hand "the 'tree hugger' that wants to stop everything" is "the barrier you face." 

Your post reads like a holier-than-thou kumbaya moment, and I don't get what it is you are trying to say. Laura is absolutely right with what she says above: "the place to start is to document public sentiment (email, phone, letter), then yes, people need to show up."

I'm not seeing that many hate-spewing rants on this topic, so I don't get your concern about email. And I'm following this on 4 or 5 different message boards. I see a lot of good questions and legitimate concern about the real impacts of these decisions. This affects a resource that is valued by people well outside the immediate communities that are directly effected. It is both necessary and appropriate that email is a major tool in demonstrating the breadth and depth of the opposition to these huge loads. 

Unlike saving an access point, there isn't any clear compromise that allows this to go forward but lessens the impact. So again, I guess I just don't get your point, unless it is simply "please write friendly letters to the nice oil companies"


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## glenn (May 13, 2009)

lhowemt said:


> Megaloads caused delays, scraped against rocks | KREM 2 News | KREM.com | When it Matters Most | News
> 
> Oops, maybe they should have asked someone what the roadway is like


I thought they would be going so slow that nothing like this could ever happen.

Well anyways, they need to make a new plan and hopefully this will be in the discussion the for the next time they want to bring something through.


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## dirtbagkayaker (Oct 29, 2008)

Ihowemnt, You do realize that I am not opposed to the transpertation of the equipment being transported via HWY 12. I don't have a good compromise to bring to the table for this issue. If you have a good compromise, then I may be swayed. So, if you want me there??? Also, I think that it is awsome that all there equipment is getting busted up. That means someone that works over here will have to fix it. I will be suprised if anyone will be effected negitivly long term by this project.


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## dirtbagkayaker (Oct 29, 2008)

Slickhorn; Thanks for your input, I too agree that public sentiment is very important. I am sorry that I "holier-than-thou kumbaya" you.


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## Riparian (Feb 7, 2009)

Mike from Casper has a new name?


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## jkodadek (Jul 19, 2006)

Delays too long: Idaho says ConocoPhillips needs new megaload transport plan

LEWISTON, Idaho - The Idaho Transportation Department says it is requiring ConocoPhillips to submit a new plan before allowing the oil company to send a second giant truckload of refinery equipment after the first caused a 59-minute traffic delay at a sharp curve on U.S. Highway 12.

Agency spokesman Adam Rush says the delay occurred as the load went around a sharp curve between Greer and Kamiah. The shipments are allowed to delay traffic no longer than 15 minutes.

The Lewiston Tribune reports that the load left Orofino just after 10 p.m. Wednesday and arrived at Kooskia by about 5:15 a.m. Thursday.
The company kept the load in Kooskia Thursday night because of snow predicted in the area.

The load is the first of four headed for a refinery in Billings, Mont.


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## emelson (Jan 11, 2011)

Great news! Thanks for the update jkodadek. Just spoke with the ED of All Against The Haul, and the rally for tomorrow on Lolo Pass has been CANCELED due to weather and the rig stopping in Kooskia. Next rally TBD.

First Friday tonight is still a GO. AATH will be on the SW corner of Higgins and Main till 8pm. Come meet Rick Bass and get a LIMITED PRODUCTION copy of The Heart of the Monster Co-authored by David James Duncan. 

...and just to add to the shadyness of these loads going through....If anyone has driven HWY12 lately you will surely notice (and hear) the new coating of large gravel chunks on east side of the pass. IDT did not authorize this dump and has no idea where the material came from....hmmm....the plot thickens!


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## kelly (Dec 13, 2003)

*Cancelled*

Signed.....


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## slamkal (Apr 8, 2009)

Hey aren't these rigs so huge you can just park underneath them??? Thanks for the shade, oil industry!!!


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## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

lhowemt said:


> Megaloads caused delays, scraped against rocks | KREM 2 News | KREM.com | When it Matters Most | News
> 
> Oops, maybe they should have asked someone what the roadway is like


Comments Page

Go to this website if you'd like to comment to ITD regarding Conoco's extended delays, apparent miscalculation in their ability to move the vehicle properly and per regs, and to encourage them to assert the appropriate penalties on all of the delays. And ask that Conoco be required to demonstrate the details of how they think they can continue without further problems (delays, damage, getting stuck). Promises aren't enough any more.

The first truck is still stuck in Kooskia due to weather, and not expected to consider moving until Monday.


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## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

*A river poet*

David James Duncan, one of the two gear river poets IMO, writes this piece for Outside magazine regarding the Mega Hauls.

The High and Wide Industrial Corridor | OutsideOnline.com

If you've not read the book, you can check it out here, or ask you local independent bookseller to order it for you. It is truly inspirational:

All Against The Haul |*All Against The Haul

If you aren't familiar with DVD, I recommend "The River Why".

The current "en route" load is still stuck in Kooskia and we continue to get normal winter weather and tons of snow. And no word on modifying their Plan to incorporate their numerous traffic delays and problems with curvy roads and rock faces on night #2 (their last move). Can someone get Emmert/Conoco a tape measure, topo map, and weather data?


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## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

*Pray for the Lochsa tonight*

Tonight is the first night the beast is entering our boating waters. Starting from just below the Knife Edge campground/takeout, they plan to move 30 miles along the Lochsa tonight alone. Let's hope it isn't easy for them, they rethink their plan, yet nothing goes into the river.

Here's a photo of the beast:
No North Idaho Transport Corridor!'s Photos - Wall Photos | Facebook


There is hope for our Lovely Lochsa, perhaps they do have another route after all:

Mackenzie River industrial shipping closer than ever
________________________
Despite massive oilsands modules getting the go-ahead for road shipment through northwestern USA, the company hoping to use northern riverways for transportation of Asian-manufactured industrial goods says a northern transportation route is closer than ever.
NTCL (Northern Transportation Company Limited.) claims its idea for shipping modules from Asia down the Mackenzie River to Hay River, and then by road to Alberta, has taken root in Asian markets following a December trip where company representative Martin Landry visited three Korean companies. 

Landry told The Journal that talks are progressing on a small contract with a Korean manufacturer that could see the first shipment going directly from an Asian port to Herschel Island, and then up the Mackenzie to Hay River.

The contract would be split into two shipments, with modules small enough to be easily transported by road into Alberta, Landry said. He added that the contract would act as a trial run, showing other manufacturers that the route can be cost and time-effective compared to other shipping options.

The Inuvialuit and Inuit-owned company's northern shipping route was originally conceived as running up the Mackenzie and Slave Rivers to Lake Athabasca, before joining a road for transportation links into Alberta's oilsands region.

That option fell through due to the cost of building a road from Fort McKay, 90 kms north of Fort McMurray, to Lake Athabasca.

The northern shipping option resurfaced late in 2010, as Imperial Oil's plan to truck giant oilsands modules through Idaho and Montana met with stiff resistance from protestors along the route.

By then, however, the northern route had been modified to take the modules off barges in Hay River and truck them south through Alberta to Fort McMurray.

At the time, Landry said that up to seven bridges in northern Alberta would have to be expanded to deal with large oilsands modules as part of the road route.

With the new proposal NTCL is considering, however, Landry said that those kinds of road modifications will not be necessary as the goods are small enough to transport by road.

Although Landry would not say who NTCL's client is, he did confirm that modules would not be for the oilsands.

The proposal came out of the trip he took to Korea before Christmas.

"Korea is industrialized like crazy," Landry said. "I got the feeling it's not just oilsands stuff they are looking to bring to Canada."

Meanwhile, Idaho legislators gave the go-ahead for Conoco-Phillips to ship three-story-high modules through the state earlier this year, leading to speculation that Imperial Oil's giant modules heading to its Kearl project near Fort McMurray will also be approved.

Thirty of the 207 modules that will eventually be pieced into a bitumen separation facility at Kearl currently sit at the Port of Lewiston, in Idaho.

If the company gets state approval, the modules will be trucked 2,100 km, crossing into Canada at the Alberta-Montana border and going on to Fort McMurray.

The USA section of the route has met resistance from environmentalists, tourism operators and locals of the region.


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## hnw2 (Jan 14, 2009)

Alright- I'm confused. I realize that barging to Lewiston is probably much cheaper than trucking this equipment from the coast, but the added issues/expenses associated with going through the 12 corridor with such big loads would make an I-90 route through Spokane much more attractive to me, especially since Billings is the destination. 
It's like they paid some head-up-his-ass consultant to do the analysis using google map's trip feature and the idea that enough wheat goes through there to feed half the world, so giant oil equipment can too. 
Or maybe he thought it would be cool to reenact the parts of the Lewis and Clark expedition with 26 foot wide big rigs instead of starving Shoshone horses and Clatsop canoes. 
Either way, the whole thing is a bit illogical to me.


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## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

hnw2 said:


> It's like they paid some head-up-his-ass consultant to do the analysis using google map's trip feature and the idea that enough wheat goes through there to feed half the world, so giant oil equipment can too.


Close, they didn't use Google Maps, they used actually Google Earth to map the route in their Travel Plan. That's right kids, 100 pages of Google Earth screen shots, even used to diagram turn radii, and not even to scale, nothing. Heck, if you have Google earth you don't even have to travel to inspect the route, you can do it from the comfort of your office! 

That's right kids, if you act now you can get your own KMTP/Conoco/Emmert/Mammoet Civil Engineering Bachelors Degree online, directly from Mountain Buzz. Just buy one of those Saturn Rafts from Shapp and we'll get your diploma in the mail to you forthwith. Heck, I thought "PE" stood for gym class, and now we know what BS is.


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## hnw2 (Jan 14, 2009)

the MtnBuzz MEng. Sign me up. 

It's pretty clear from their agreement to only block traffic for 15 minutes at a time that they've never been anywhere near 12. This is what all those Ivy twats I knew in schoowho couldn't even do their own laundry or put their brand new cars in four wheel drive when it snowed are doing with their lives now...building travel plans for Exxon. 

I'm not saying they shouldn't build the refinery in Billings or extract the oil, that's another issue- I'm just saying that driving all the legos up 12 before you build the castle doesn't make much sense.


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## Rich (Sep 14, 2006)

hnw2 said:


> Alright- I'm confused. I realize that barging to Lewiston is probably much cheaper than trucking this equipment from the coast, but the added issues/expenses associated with going through the 12 corridor with such big loads would make an I-90 route through Spokane much more attractive to me, especially since Billings is the destination.


 
I believe it is overpass heights on I-90 that make that route unuseable.
Our National Defense Highway System was not designed to be a mega load industrial corridor.


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## hnw2 (Jan 14, 2009)

Rich said:


> I believe it is overpass heights on I-90 that make that route unuseable.
> Our National Defense Highway System was not designed to be a mega load industrial corridor.



Thanks.


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## jpbay (Jun 10, 2010)

Well maybe now they will take better look at the money they saved from the over seas manufacturing. Hey, Who Knows maybe they can bring in a few thousand asian workes to North America to build the cheaper here.------ Its all about the route !The other side of the mountians for fabrication solves the problem and the jobs will benifit local economy


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## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

*conoco hits Montana*

Three more nights of travel and the Conoco unit is 9 miles inside the Montana border. What a [email protected]$$ that haul is. The traffic control is extremely
unorganized and the ISP involvement is sketchy at best. Without going into details, I experienced such a bizarre encounter with the module that means
either they are completely disorganized, or there was a calculated effort to create a situation where observers could be painted as making trouble. Either
way, safety was thrown out the window.

Think again if you have any notion that their plan means anything. They are winging it and whatever is written on a piece of paper is worth less than the
paper and ink. Whether that is what their planned pullouts are, how they will (mis) manage traffic, and complying with their 10/15 minute rule. They pretty
much have control of the highway and will do what they see fit to get their move done. You can sit and wait as long as it takes.

Hopefully Exxon really is having second thoughts and is figuring out a way to
use the freeways.

Some megaloads will bypass U.S. 12

There is no word on how they are going to proceed with the next step. Supposedly module #2 is going to cross Idaho and meet #1. However the multiple delays are requiring them to come up with a new "plan", for as worthless as those are.


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## Schenker (Mar 21, 2010)

*No reason to hate*



billfish said:


> signed and forwarded to a lot of idaho voters


Didn't realize you had to be an Idaho voter to paddle the Lochsa and care. My bad.


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## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

Schenker said:


> Didn't realize you had to be an Idaho voter to paddle the Lochsa and care. My bad.


Geeze, hate? I don't think any of that is here. Notice who the contacts are, Montana and Idaho politicians mostly. Support from everywhere and everyone is important, but (generally) politicians don't care what you think if you can't vote for them.


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## Schenker (Mar 21, 2010)

*Paddle and be free*



lhowemt said:


> Geeze, hate? I don't think any of that is here. Notice who the contacts are, Montana and Idaho politicians mostly. Support from everywhere and everyone is important, but (generally) politicians don't care what you think if you can't vote for them.


No worries. I support your cause.


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## outbackjack (Feb 10, 2010)

Signed, good luck!!!!!


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## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

*Is there hope???*

ExxonMobil: Some Canada-bound megaloads downsized for interstate

There is hope for our Lochsa! It seems Imperial Oil/Exxon is cutting a bunch of their modules down so they fit under the freeway bridges! Yahoo! They've been hauling some "test" modules (the ones they cut down) over from Vancouver WA (where most of the modules sit as the Columbia Dams/Locks are current closed for some scheduled repairs/upgrades). The speculation (even in this article) is that the modules in Lewiston will go up Hwy 95 to the interstate, and take the interstate all the way to Canada. That route isn't without it's own issues, maybe there is hope they'll ship the modules back down to Vancouver and truck them from there. We won't know until the Columbia is cleared for barge traffic, I'm not sure on those dates.

So much for these modules being "non divisible". Of course, they are not stopping any efforts at permitting the original proposed route. Idaho just issued approval for those permits so the administrative hearings there now begin. Montana published a FONSI for the EA, clearing the way for Montana's permit to proceed also.

In other news, no word from Conoco on when they'll start the move of their 2nd module. Supposedly they are being required to come up with plan modifications to address the permit non-compliance in their first run.

Please let the Idaho Transportation Dept know your thoughts on requiring Conoco to comply with their permit, especially the traffic delay. It is not acceptable that they just shut down the highway, public be damned, to get their module moved. We should not have to pay for their negligent planning!

http://apps.itd.idaho.gov/apps/WebComments/default.aspx


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## kevinhindtown (May 2, 2009)

Signed and shared on FB.


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## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

Well it seems a lot of momentum has shifted away from Hwy 12 and the Oil companies are truly going to cut modules in half and move them via the freeway. It is not clear whether or not any of the modules that have moved are from the group in of Lewiston, and it seems unlikely as getting up the in Lewiston hill will make for interesting news. The modules that have moved via the freeway seem to be ones that are still sitting in Vancouver. Even in admitting that they are cutting modules and using the freeways, Exxon still expresses that they have not abandoned Hwy 12. And let's not forger that there is another shipper in line behind them for 60 loads. Without Exxon paying for the infrastructure modifications, it's hard to say if that next shipper would still consider the route. The fight is not over.

There was a sudden permit approval for Exxon to move a test module up Hwy 12, and that was supposedly going to start Tuesday. It seemed unlikely because the 2nd Conoco module was already on the road and that would be a logistical problem. I can't even remember when Conoco #2 started, but it's been stuck in Kooskia for over a week now. They had one night of mechanical problems, and the rest has been weather. The planned Exxon test module was to be smaller than their permitted modules, which didn't have an obvious benefit. Why would you "test" with something not representative of your plan? Anyways, on Tuesday Exxon abandoned that test shipment for now, and there are some that are saying they did this to push along the administrative process for their main permit of 207 loads.

Both Idaho and Montana are seeing bills being proposed that will make it more difficult for citizens to legally fight permit applications such as these. Idaho proposes a monstrous bond for legal challenges (forfeit if you lose) and Montana proposed to not allow judges to hold projects when there is a legal challenge to a MEPA EA. 

The Idaho Administrative process (where the legal challenge must be heard before it goes to the courts) includes a recent petition by the Intervenors to withdraw the Exxon permit because the modules clearly are divisible. Non-divisible is one of the criteria of review for oversize permits.

The Rural People of Highway 12 ? Fighting Goliath
ITD Director Asked To Withdraw Exxon/Imperial Permits | Advocates For The West

It's good to see it in National News.

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2011/02/25/business/AP-US-Megaloads.html?_r=2&hp

And what I consider incredibly important. Whatever the oil companies want to use, regarding pullouts, they will use, when and how they see fit. If they are given unfettered access to block a local tourist and cultural spot, you think they will care that we don't like them blocking our boating accesses or Lochsa Falls?

FightingGoliath

If you oppose this, and want to help out, funding is needed for the legal battle. Advocates for the West and All Against the Haul are both taking donations.

Donate |*All Against The Haul

I don't see how you can specify for AW that it is for the Mega Haul, but if that is important to you I expect they'll take a check with a note, or maybe a phone call.

https://www.advocateswest.org/civicrm/contribute/transact?reset=1&id=3


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## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

Amazing news! The Lochsa is protected from megaloads!!! Can you believe a few ragtag groups and regular people from Montana and Idaho prevailed against Exxon? Whoop Whoop!

https://www.idahorivers.org/newsroo...storic-uses-on-highway-12-restricts-megaloads


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## rwhyman (May 23, 2005)

I wonder how long it will take for Trump to sign an executive order to reverse this decision?

A day or two?


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## Soup76 (Aug 19, 2009)

rwhyman said:


> I wonder how long it will take for Trump to sign an executive order to reverse this decision?
> 
> A day or two?


Good God. He has WAY bigger fish to fry than this. He'll be too busy playing pin the tail on the Muslim and building a wall across the Canadian border. Wake me up when it's over...

Nes Perce hanging tough... good for them!


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## daairguy (Nov 11, 2013)

rwhyman said:


> I wonder how long it will take for Trump to sign an executive order to reverse this decision?
> 
> A day or two?


Hopefully the dumbass will do something to get impeached sooner than later.


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## elkhaven (Sep 11, 2013)

daairguy said:


> Hopefully the dumbass will do something to get impeached sooner than later.


Hopefully? I wonder what the odds are in Vegas that he actually makes it through 4 years? They've got to be steep. I don't see any way he makes it that long, I doubt half that long. Hell, I'll be surprised if he makes it to March.


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## dirtbagkayaker (Oct 29, 2008)

elkhaven said:


> Hopefully? I wonder what the odds are in Vegas that he actually makes it through 4 years? They've got to be steep. I don't see any way he makes it that long, I doubt half that long. Hell, I'll be surprised if he makes it to March.


I'll take that bet. 

This is the same sad song I hear from the losers that do not believe in democracy after every election. The haters will push, cry, and make sad faces. I'm not super old but, Clinton, Bush, and Obama were all hoped to get the axe. It will never happen even though they are all horrible people. The people in the know got their man in and there is nothing anyone can do about it. So what are my odds of Trump for 4? and the odds of anther 4, elk?????? I think in 8 years from now we will get someone even more miserable. Just think that person is out there and her name could be Hillary.. As a country we are hosed!


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## elkhaven (Sep 11, 2013)

dirtbagkayaker said:


> I'll take that bet.
> 
> This is the same sad song I hear from the losers that do not believe in democracy after every election. The haters will push, cry, and make sad faces. I'm not super old but, Clinton, Bush, and Obama were all hoped to get the axe. It will never happen even though they are all horrible people. The people in the know got their man in and there is nothing anyone can do about it. So what are my odds of Trump for 4? and the odds of anther 4, elk?????? I think in 8 years from now we will get someone even more miserable. Just think that person is out there and her name could be Hillary.. As a country we are hosed!


Your on. 

FWIW, I'm a republican at heart. I felt Trump was the lesser of the two evils and was actually excited when he ran. I was seeing someone that could make real change to the system, run it like a business not a charity but as time wears on I see his ego is too big to enable change. The thing he lacks that the others had was a filter. He doesn't apparently listen to his advisers and spouts off every chance he gets. It's only a matter of time that he fails to listen and does something illegal. You're right, many folks despised those that came before him and plenty of them talked impeachment but none of them held a candle to his level of indifference. I certainly didn't think Obama would get reelected, but he did. So only time will tell. Most of me would really like to see what he can get accomplished but my gut says he can't help but shoot himself in the foot. That's where my statement really comes from - he just can't stop himself.

I can see good things coming from him (there is lots of if's in this statement) but I wish he'd focus on overhauling the government process and stop posting his feelings on social media. He's a genius and a moron - a dichotomous and dangerous pair of attributes.


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## LSB (Mar 23, 2004)

it's all part of their plan. He will get impeached because he is an idiot. Then super right wingnut Pence gets in because he couldn't have gotten elected on his own. I do love conspiracy theories. On the other hand I might have his plan figured out too. 1 close the borders. 2 pull all military out of the middle east and let them kill each other. 3 build the pipeline so we don't need their oil. 4 conduct all diplomatic relations over Skype ... America First... Right? Except I really don't believe any of it I just say it here because my wife has somehow lost her sense of humor over the last decade or so . PS good luck on your permits everybody.


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## elkhaven (Sep 11, 2013)

I almost posted an analogy yesterday... Trump and Greenwall have a lot in common; they just can't help themselves... turns out there was a great example last night, but the evidence is gone this morning. Oh well, I had fun laughing.


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