# Rough Trip on Middle Fork of the Salmon, Idaho



## yetigonecrazy

im not sure but i maaaay know the boaters who were on that trip. a good friend of mine said some of his buddies just got off a middle fork trip that turned epic on them, one boat was completely destroyed, the other was torn apart (could be that one?) and a bunch of them ended up having to hike out. and if the pics are not from their group, then that is two different groups that have had epics this year. gotta love flood waters on a wilderness run......


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## Rich

This does not look like a whitewater raft. If you blow up the side view, you can see the propeller on the back. Way too big to row on the MF.

Motorized traffic on the Main Salmon is very common. Did also notice the PBR still on the boat. Someone should move that out of the sun!


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## pearen

A lot more than two groups had epics on the MFS this year! Our party was on for this year's peak (7.3 ft) and we passed no less than six parties that were freaked out, hiking out, flying out, or out a boat. On the other hand, there are plenty of boaters that can't wait to see the MFS at 10 ft. I guess wilderness runs at peak snowmelt have very different effects of different people.

And, that log at Cache Bar looks strangely familiar  

The lesson of our MFS trip was to always look upstream when pulling out of an eddy!


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## Wadeinthewater

Rich said:


> This does not look like a whitewater raft. If you blow up the side view, you can see the propeller on the back. Way too big to row on the MF. Motorized traffic on the Main Salmon is very common.


Gotta agree with Rich. Why would you have the outboard mounted on a Middle Fork trip? The boat is too big to row on the MFK and has no rigging for sweeps. I do know that it is registered to some folks from Central Point, Oregon.


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## Rich

pearen said:


> And, that log at Cache Bar looks strangely familiar
> The lesson of our MFS trip was to always look upstream when pulling out of an eddy!


 
Would like to hear that story!

Also yetigonecrazy: let's hear your friends story.

If I can't make this year's high water, I would at least like to hear the stories.


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## creedence

*Good luck with that!*

The MF is a non-motorized river/wilderness area there is no way in hell the ranger at Boundary would even consider allowing that monstrosity to even launch. 

Anyone who is interested in seeing the MF @ 10ft is not familiar with the MF, it's not a pretty sight! There are 2 kinds of BIG water MF boaters those that have flipped, and those that will!


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## yetigonecrazy

pearen said:


> A lot more than two groups had epics on the MFS this year! Our party was on for this year's peak (7.3 ft) and we passed no less than six parties that were freaked out, hiking out, flying out, or out a boat. On the other hand, there are plenty of boaters that can't wait to see the MFS at 10 ft. I guess wilderness runs at peak snowmelt have very different effects of different people.
> 
> And, that log at Cache Bar looks strangely familiar
> 
> The lesson of our MFS trip was to always look upstream when pulling out of an eddy!


i did not mean to imply there was only two epics this year alone. i merely said it is the second one i have heard about myself.

i dont have the full story yet, i will talk to my buddy today and get the full scoop. all i know is they dropped in, their oar rig surfed really bad and actually sunk somewhere, and they were left with one boat and no gear so a bunch of them hiked out. again, i will get the full scoop today


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## eideho

Rich said:


> This does not look like a whitewater raft. If you blow up the side view, you can see the propeller on the back. Way too big to row on the MF.
> 
> Motorized traffic on the Main Salmon is very common. Did also notice the PBR still on the boat. Someone should move that out of the sun!


No jet boat traffic below Corn Creek has been active this week due to high water- and no float boat w/motors allowed beyond Corn Creek through Frank Church Wilderness corridor. However, I have seen sweeps with motors out of the water on the MF and the Main for use in slack water downriver (NOT NEEDED THIS WEEK!!) beyond the wilderness boundary closer to Riggins. This looked like a sweep boat but I also did not see the rigging which could have gone the way of the pontoons. The sweep boats on the MF resemble this but I never saw the rigging (canvas and captain's chair) on one of those. It will be interesting on how this worked. Strains my imagination to think "oars" on this one.

There was some information from a neighbor who works at Corn Creek on some rescues for those hiking out - helio drops for survival gear and jet boats up the confluence to get gear floating down.

I will get the story for all when my neighbor returns from her training. Her boss runs the NF check in at Corn Creek.

I blew up the picture and there are oarlocks associated with the primary seat. A lot of boat for the oarsman!


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## raftus

creedence said:


> The MF is a non-motorized river/wilderness area there is no way in hell the ranger at Boundary would even consider allowing that monstrosity to even launch.
> 
> Anyone who is interested in seeing the MF @ 10ft is not familiar with the MF, it's not a pretty sight! There are 2 kinds of BIG water MF boaters those that have flipped, and those that will!


There is no ranger at Boundary on the Middle Fork during the early season. The first, and often only, ranger you will see is at Indian Creek. So if someone got that boat down Marsh Creek there would be no one to say a thing about it until Indian Creek.

My friends that have run the Middle Fork at 9 ft say it was a blast with many holes washed out.


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## lhowemt

creedence said:


> Anyone who is interested in seeing the MF @ 10ft is not familiar with the MF, it's not a pretty sight! There are 2 kinds of BIG water MF boaters those that have flipped, and those that will!


So what's wrong with flipping :wink:


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## creedence

lhowemt said:


> So what's wrong with flipping :wink:


Nothings wrong with flipping it's all part of the game. It's getting you rig to shore (in one piece) thats the problem.


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## pearen

creedence said:


> Anyone who is interested in seeing the MF @ 10ft is not familiar with the MF, it's not a pretty sight!


Alternatively, someone interested in seeing the MFS @ 10ft is extremely competent, knows the river well, has a high gnar threshold, and likes a little adventure. An appreciation of wood could also be beneficial...


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## carvedog

I enlarged the photo and couldn't see anything like oars mounts, sweep mounts or and outboard motor. 

I know that anyone taking a rig like that on the MF during near peak week is asking for an ass whipping. 

Not that I wouldn't be scared.....but I would love to see the Middle Fork at 10 feet. Maybe only need to do it once but WOW that would be a rush.


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## creedence

pearen said:


> Alternatively, someone interested in seeing the MFS @ 10ft is extremely competent, knows the river well, has a high gnar threshold, and likes a little adventure. An appreciation of wood could also be beneficial...


True, but knowing the river well @ low to medium flow and knowing it at 10ft are 2 different things. i.e. Ski Jump, Murph's hole, Hells-half-mile easy at lower flows but boat eaters at 8+. Of course to achieve the gnar threshold and adventure you must put-in at Marsh creek finishing with a run down Dagger!


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## GoodTimes

Anyone know what the highest succesful run of Dagger was at??? I saw her (and rowed it) at 6.3........just wondering when it gets stupid.


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## Snowhere

carvedog said:


> I enlarged the photo and couldn't see anything like oars mounts, sweep mounts or and outboard motor.


In the first pic look at the back of the rig. You can see the motor sticking past the tail. 

I think what some are thinking are oar mounts are just the rod holders. He has at least 2 per side on the rig. 

I gotta give them some credit, those logs strapped to the boat to allow them to finish must have made the craft very unwieldy. Still they 'duct taped' everything together and went for it. Many might have given up and asked to be rescued. I guess with a big enough motor on the back it was doable.


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## Matty

carvedog said:


> I enlarged the photo and couldn't see anything like oars mounts, sweep mounts or and outboard motor.


If you look at the picture. Double click it and it will open in a new tab(at least with firefox) and Ctrl= will blow it up even more. The metal upright above what looks to be garden hose looks very much like a super beefy oar mount, as well as the regular oar mount pivot just below it. There also seems to be one directly across from it. Not saying they rowed it down the middle fork with that 25 horse engine on it, but it is rigged to be rowed.


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## Rich

lhowemt said:


> So what's wrong with flipping :wink:


 
Spoken like a true Catwoman! Might as well sell the round boat, you might never use it again.


Blown up big, they look like rod holders, not oar locks.
I assumed the logs that are under it were rigged up to roll to on the ramp. They do not look like they are attached for floatation.

Would like to hear the story.

Would also like to see the MF at 10'. Not sure I would want to row it, but I would like to see it!


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## mgpaddler

Pretty sure I know that boat. The owners had just completed a MFS at average flows of 6.8 in a 15 foot raft. They had planned to pick up their Snout rig at Corn and continue to Whitebird. They did not take it down the MFS. It is possible a Log took them out while loading it down the ramp or they had problems just below and were towed back. At any rate, the couple is very experienced and I hope they are okay.


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## Berger

My brother and I did a self-support of the Middle Fork two weeks ago in kayaks at some level above 7 feet. The FS said the river was at 8.8 but according the USGS records it was probably around 7.5 and I was fucking scared. Huge logs were floating with us, mainly through the Impassable Canyon. Does anyone know if the trail follows the river all the way to the confluence with the Main Salmon? Two female rangers at Indian Creek informed us that the trail followed the river all the way to the end, but from my map and from what I observed the trail swerves away at Big Creek. I was scared if I swam I would have to hike out, which would have been the case if I did swim, and from what I saw there is no fucking trail passed Big Creek. I planned on using the trail to either hike out if I lost my boat and/or portage some of the rapids at the end like Weber, Redside etc. the class IV's, but there was no trail and we ran the shit, and were freaked out. I thought about telling the FS about those dumbass girls but nobody really seemed to care. If someone was to swim in there at flood stage, or go into one of those holes, the likelihood of coming out would be slim.


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## mania

BUCK UP

or go home

just having fun please don't get all offended.


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## Wadeinthewater

Berger said:


> Does anyone know if the trail follows the river all the way to the confluence with the Main Salmon?


There is not a trail below Big Creek


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## Dave Frank

Wadeinthewater said:


> There is not a trail below Big Creek


That is why it is called impassable canyon. No trail, not impassable due to rapids.


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## carvedog

Berger said:


> My brother and I did a self-support of the Middle Fork two weeks ago in kayaks at some level above 7 feet. The FS said the river was at 8.8 but according the USGS records it was probably around 7.5 and I was fucking scared. Huge logs were floating with us, mainly through the Impassable Canyon. Does anyone know if the trail follows the river all the way to the confluence with the Main Salmon? Two female rangers at Indian Creek informed us that the trail followed the river all the way to the end, but from my map and from what I observed the trail swerves away at Big Creek. I was scared if I swam I would have to hike out, which would have been the case if I did swim, and from what I saw there is no fucking trail passed Big Creek. I planned on using the trail to either hike out if I lost my boat and/or portage some of the rapids at the end like Weber, Redside etc. the class IV's, but there was no trail and we ran the shit, and were freaked out. I thought about telling the FS about those dumbass girls but nobody really seemed to care. If someone was to swim in there at flood stage, or go into one of those holes, the likelihood of coming out would be slim.


You go to do a river at what is predicted to be peak week or close to it, you get scared and want to blame some FS interns for the trail not being where you thought it was - BTW this has been common knowledge that there is no trail through the last twenty miles since ohhhh around 1937 and then expect someone to give a shit cuz you want to tattle to the FS that someone may have given not great info or you misunderstood what they said.

Dude - grow a set, wash the sand out of your mangina and come see us again sometime. 
I have been down at that level and it was scary. Scary fast, but actually a lot of things were washed out. Going 15 miles an hour is interesting cuz things happen so fast. I would have loved to be out there a couple of weeks ago.

No sneak at Weber but almost everything else can be.

Oh yeah there is no trail after Big Creek. But you do wash out to the Main Salmon pretty easily. Just stay in the current for an hour and you'll be there.


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## raft3plus

*Looks like they have it under control..*

That is Jake and Marianne's J-rig. It has at least a 25hp 4stroke on it, but when motors are not allowed they run the rig with oars. It sucks oaring a boat that heavy, yet that is what the round beefy towers you see in the first picture are for. The hose is wrapped around it, and the cantilever log is strapped directly below it.

I have had the pleasure of assisting Captain Jake with rigging his boat and what concerns me is the lack of boxes below the deck in the fore and aft section. This looks like they de-rigged it along with the day cooler taking the snout tube to town, Riggins?.

Maybe find log, stick it into tube while surfing in a hole? Can't wait to get the scoop. His handle is oarboatman on our buzz... oh, hope they are ok.

They are the most competent boaters I have met who do their own month long Alaska trips etc all the time. Actually managed to learn a lot from Jake and Marianne during their stay in CO. Damn that kid knows his shit...

Respect.


.. we'll see you on the MFS on the 17th with flows around 3. L8.


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## FLOWTORCH

MiddleFork Mtnbuzz shitshow, June 17th, live and in color.

And Carvedog, whats on your avatar? Looks like a kid getting choked out under water. What did he do to deserve that?


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## ric

*Mini j-rig!*

I thought that rig looked familiar, I've help launch it with Jake at westwater, I think he got it in from ex grand guide in castle valley.
Are you sure thats his?
When did he leave westslope? after n school?
If it's his, he did have oars for it!


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## pinetree

A friend flipped in Velvet at 6.5 ft, they got the boat back at the big eddy 12 miles downriver. Flippin' ain;t bad, long swims sure are.


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## Patricia

*We were there, too! It was awesome!*

We were there the same time it was great, minus losing lots of gear (mainly a raft) and leaving some behind which was just picked up yesterday at Dagger! Marsh was *full on*, we lost a raft in Marsh. It got set-up on a strainer, flipped, finally dislodged and was rode like a bull after our friend Tim caught up with it about 3 miles downstream on his kayak as it floated down the river upside down with a river wide tree on it. He was able to get it off to the shore and tie of the tree and lodge into some others. I just had images of never seeing the gear or raft again and pictured it as it was thrased in Dagger. The raft is toast now, a cross bar broke....You can thank the sacrifice of the raft for the almost river wide log jam that is no longer there about 6 miles upstream from Dagger on river left. We also had someone flip at Velvet - quick recovery. My boyfriend flipped us below Rubber - thinking Devil's Tooth. Flipped stayed next to the boat and held on we were able to get into another - long ass time to get it into the eddy about 1 mile from the confluence - lost even more gear, stoves, my chacos and some other minor things. Cold water - couldn't even catch my breath - that's early season, high water boating We took off on the 24th and hit the bubble on the 1st three days. The weather in the upper eighties on two of them (at least that was the forecast) - it was warm.

When you go early season you expect big water, flips, z-drags! Must be prepared to swim, flip and lose gear if it's not rigged properly! Marsh Creek - lots of trees. not wood trees!

As a note...the forecast leading up to the trip the level were forecasted to be 4.5 feet and I was going to kayak, but the weather changed dramatically and we hit it at above 8' and most of it was coming from Marsh Creek. My kayak stayed behind 

Happy paddling.


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## Berger

Yeah Carvedog, not blaming anyone. Just thought if you're job is to inform people about flows and the river, you should know just a little about it, especially for people who have never been down. To tell someone that there is a trail out, and then there is not is kind of a big deal. There was only two of us, and yes we were on edge, so I was kind of pissed about someone giving me inaccurate information. No need to get all wild about a simple post. I was also trying to let other people know that there is no trail out, just in case something was to happen and they had to maybe hike out, especially for self-support kayakers.


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## Riogoodtime

Hey Carve Dog I bet you're a bitch come on down to colorado for some creekin or give me a call and we'll come down to Idaho and get on some real shit bet you might bitch out and cry mommy, or have an excuse not to go, big water or big anything is scary at higher flows and especially blind reading and running with no one who has been down, yea it is not fs responsibility its the paddlers getting themselves into the situation still props to berger for putting on first time with no one whos been down to guide em, so eat dog shit carve dog, all you probably carve is your dogs ass. peace the mf out


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## lhowemt

Riogoodtime said:


> Hey Carve Dog I bet you're a bitch come on down to colorado for some creekin or give me a call and we'll come down to Idaho and get on some real shit bet you might bitch out and cry mommy, or have an excuse not to go, big water or big anything is scary at higher flows and especially blind reading and running with no one who has been down, yea it is not fs responsibility its the paddlers getting themselves into the situation still props to berger for putting on first time with no one whos been down to guide em, so eat dog shit carve dog, all you probably carve is your dogs ass. peace the mf out



I LOVE the Buzz! We get to experience the world's biggest losers, without really having to experience them.

MFS - June 17 - RAD!

I am planning on recalibrating my "cat-brain", from "flipping is OK", to "must not flip". Or at least - never let go of your boat!


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## caspermike

BERGER go cry to your mommy. a self support kakaker aint a see kayaker. in stead of rellying on somebody knowledge whom you don't know check the shit out yourself... wahh wahhh.. they told me their was a trail wahh wahhh


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## carvedog

FLOWTORCH said:


> MiddleFork Mtnbuzz shitshow, June 17th, live and in color.
> 
> And Carvedog, whats on your avatar? Looks like a kid getting choked out under water. What did he do to deserve that?


That is my daughter practicing dunking her head before her first MF trip ( at age 5) to show me she could hold her breath for a while. Had the Nikonos and thought this came out pretty cool. She loves this shot and loves to see it on my posts when she peaks over my shoulder. 



Berger said:


> Yeah Carvedog, not blaming anyone. Just thought if you're job is to inform people about flows and the river, you should know just a little about it, especially for people who have never been down. To tell someone that there is a trail out, and then there is not is kind of a big deal. There was only two of us, and yes we were on edge, so I was kind of pissed about someone giving me inaccurate information. No need to get all wild about a simple post. I was also trying to let other people know that there is no trail out, just in case something was to happen and they had to maybe hike out, especially for self-support kayakers.


Just giving you some shit. And there is a trail out, it just goes over a ridge that is about 2,500 vertical above the river and then it drops you right down to the main. Anyone running flood stage rivers should not be relying on anyone other than themselves to get out of the shit. 
I just wasn't as subdued as Mania about giving you the bizness. 



Riogoodtime said:


> Hey Carve Dog I bet you're a bitch come on down to colorado .........wah, wah, wah, wah, wha.


Well aren't you just the CO gangster boater. Yeah I pretty much just talk shit on the internet and wish I had bigger balls. You're probably so gnar I don't know how you fit into your boat with your incredibly manly package. 
Jeez when I grow up I want to be a rad boater just like you. 
Maybe then I will really learn how to talk shit on the interwebz. 

But, there are quite a few on the board here who I have helped with beta, logistics and boated with - they can verify what a little bitch I am.


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## mr. compassionate

caspermike said:


> BERGER go cry to your mommy. a self support kakaker aint a see kayaker. in stead of rellying on somebody knowledge whom you don't know check the shit out yourself... wahh wahhh.. they told me their was a trail wahh wahhh


 
So I see you've moved from belittling people in the Eddy to strictly doing it in the Boater's Forum. Any reasoning behind this?


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## pearen

*Buzzards will have fun with this...*

I wasn’t really planning to share my Middle Fork Salmon experience on the buzz, but this thread is getting juicy and I’m in the mood.

Our party launched on 5/19 and took off on 5/22, perfect to hit this year’s peak of 7.3 ft. We were 5 people in 2 playboats, 2 14’ cats, and a 14’ round boat. I would describe us overall as being less experienced, but competent boaters, safety minded and adventurous. We had zero carnage other than the story below and we loved every second of the trip. We were good kids and said our prayers before bed every night, “Please river, could I not swim in you tomorrow! Oh, and by the way do you mind coming up another foot overnight!”

Before I tell my story I also want to say that the Middle Fork the week before Memorial Day was the biggest junk show I have ever seen! We encountered 10 other parties in 4 days and only two of those groups were solid. Of the competent parties one consisted of three well seasoned catboaters from Boise and the other was a dude in a Dagger Green Boat running the whole thing solo in a day. On the river I was under the impression that the brothers Burger were also competent, but recent buzz posts have proven otherwise. We saw two parties on Marsh that we heard later had epiced. Three parties at dagger, two of whom were waiting for the snow on the road to clear so they could escape, the other party had lost a raft on Marsh, but did fine for the rest of the trip. We also saw two scared shitless parties at Loon that were flying out and one party from Bellingham, WA that had the biggest fucktard asshole I have ever met on a river. In my opinion, we should have been one of the least experienced parties, not one of the most experienced. The overall level of competence was minimal for a 100 mile wilderness Class IV run at peak flows and lots of folks got their shit handed to them. Why anyone would go in there if they are going to spend the whole time scared shitless of the river rising another inch is beyond me?

I also got taught a lesson by the Middle Fork: 

Beatdown Lesson #37 - Always look upstream before pulling out of an eddy.

The story of my beatdown- Dagger Falls @ 7’:

We arrived at Dagger Falls to find the bank lined by freaked out gapers with whistles and throwbags waving at like crazy fools to eddy out. My first reaction was, ‘Shit, someone died! Hopefully they just have ropes in the river or there is wood in the falls.’ The Dagger scout is pretty hard to miss. Bridge over river. Check. Giant eddy with stairs leading to it. Check. Thundering Class V clearly audible around the corner. Check. Why people were offering to throw me bags as I made the easy pull into the eddy is beyond me. Anyway, I looked at the first competent seeming person and asked what was wrong and if our assistance was needed. “Nothing is wrong we just wanted to make sure you guys knew this is the portage.” Portage?

I had a quick look at the falls to make sure it was wood free and to get my bearings. The two other oarsmen in our group decided they didn’t feel up to it. The three extremely competent Boise catboaters and I agreed to run it Blue Angel style for safety and off we went. Four cats four clean lines. The three Boise cats agreed to set safety for me while I ran our round boat through and our two kayaks joined me in running the falls. Raft and two kayaks, three more clean lines. At this point our group has just one more cat at the top of the falls and the Boise crew graciously agreed to set safety for me while I ran the final cat through the falls.

I jogged back to the top of the falls and took a breather for a second to get my game face on for round three then hopped in my buddy’s cat and pulled out of the eddy. I was in the swirly room above the falls getting boiled and swirled around similarly to my previous two runs when all of a sudden I experienced what can only be described as whiplash. It took a split second to realize that something totally unexpected was going on and I turned around to see the two foot diameter butt end of a 60’ pine tree between my tubes and pushing on my cat frame. At this instant the thing was lined up perfectly behind me and pushing me off line and sideways into a part of Dagger falls I had no interest in investigating. My first instinct was to get ahead of the thing so I started pushing on the oars like a crazy fool, but I quickly realized the insanity of dropping into Dagger Falls with a tree chasing me. My second instinct was, ‘Get me the fuck out of here before I die.’ I pushed harder than I ever have for the fish ladder on river left and abandoned ship in one magnificent leap. I mantled up onto the concrete of the fish ladder and turned around just in time to see the log mash by buddy’s cat into the boulder that forms the lip of the falls. The log then released and chundered on through the falls followed closely by another huge tree trunk and a full tree with attached limbs and greenery.

All three trees disappeared around the corner and I turned my attention back to by buddy’s pinned cat. His boat was pinned, bow upstream, right at the lip of the falls with the only damage being a mangled oarlock and a broken oar shaft. Realizing that I would only be rowing with one oar over the falls backward I hopped back in the cat and bounced it a couple of times so it would release. I promptly flipped in the hole at the bottom of the falls and climbed into the cockpit of the upside down cat. My safety chased and we herded the cat into the eddy at Boundary Cr. We reflipped, replaced the oar and oarlock and proceeded to have the best MFS trip ever.

All told, I feel incredibly fortunate to have escaped the nightmare situation of being pushed around by wood above a big Class V with only a broken oar and oarlock. This could have turned out very badly! I learned this lesson and learned it well, I will always look upstream before pulling out of an eddy!


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## Dave Frank

Fantastic and well written to boot. They've got some big trees in that river.


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## lhowemt

Unbelievable. Crazy shit, it's always good to get such reminders, especially on the computer instead of first hand! Glad all was OK.


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## paddlepilot

Pearen,
The only thing better than reading your story, was watching it live, it was a hell of a show of Spidermanesque agility, and one the most entertaining things I have seen on a river (and I spent a number of years video boating on the Gauley). Have to agree with you about the boating quality of a lot of the parties (including ours) on the river those days, but watching people mentally loose their shit in a group v. nature setting like that has an entertainment value all it's own, much better than anything on reality TV.
I've included a few photos from our 'incident' above Dagger. The guy rowing this boat saw the signal to go right to avoid the log and pulled hard to get there while switching off his river reading googles. He went into the hole on the right, above the log, it spat him out to the left all discombobulated and without time to recover. Fortunately no injuries were sustained and Andy's guitar which is in the green bag you can see at the back of the boat came out almost in tune! The only real casualty was a p.o.s. rotting airbag of a raft that should never have been on that river in the first place, and our beer carrying capacity.
The MFS at peak runoff is an awesome trip that will eagerly spank the unworthy and unprepared, and well reward those that are up for it. I'll be back!


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## pearen

Damn. That is a pretty impressive piece of work! I'm glad everyone was ok. Did folks go over or under that log? Also, how did you get her out of there? Did you move the log or pull her the rest of the way under? Did someone have to walk the plank to get a rope on the boat? I just can't get over how nasty that flip-pin-wrap-strainer looks.

I know there are lots more carnage pics from this spring on Marsh, let's see em...


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## eideho

*More like Bad Trip Down The Salmon River Road*

[Rich, et. al. were correct. I just got the story. The wreck did not go down the Middle Fork ( I was struggling to see how also, plus if wrecked below Corn Creek, no reasonable way to get back to ramp). It wrecked on the road to Corn Creek. The boat evidently fell off the trailer, popping the missing pontoon. It was taken back to Blackadar in Salmon, repaired, and reinstalled on the boat. They did launch on the Main. Still, a lot of boat for an oarsman with the flows currently being experienced. It may have been a blessing. The cool weather may have lowered the level some even with the rain we have had. Trips from Corn Creek to Riggins are being made in two days with level at 9 feet on the ramp (35,000+ cfs)


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## paddlepilot

pearen said:


> Damn. That is a pretty impressive piece of work! I'm glad everyone was ok. Did folks go over or under that log? Also, how did you get her out of there? Did you move the log or pull her the rest of the way under? Did someone have to walk the plank to get a rope on the boat? I just can't get over how nasty that flip-pin-wrap-strainer looks.
> 
> I know there are lots more carnage pics from this spring on Marsh, let's see em...


One person went over and one went under. Luckily most of the logs on the Salmon don't have a lot of branches (the 2nd or 3rd log following you through Dagger was an exception) We had a saw and the plan was to either use another piece of wood to lever the log off, or cut it. Right after I took the close up pic the rising river took care of things and raft and log floated free and headed down river. A few of us gave chase in kayaks, I got on the raft and was able to roll the log off. The first line to shore blew out the rope it was attached to on the raft but the second attempt held and after a mile or two we had the raft and log tied to the bank. Unloaded the raft and re-inflated whatever was still holding air on it and rowed the remains to Dagger where it was unceremoniously laid to rest. Days like that leave you thinking that whitewater rodeos are missing something.


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## Patricia

Pearen props to you! I saw the video - nothing short of amazing. Between you and Tim "paddlepilot" you guys get the bad ass award for the MF this year. Tim I only wish we a picture of you rowing that sorry ghetto raft down to Dagger with the tubes sinched up with cam straps! and Scott thinks he is going to repair that raft (one in the picture above) but he has no idea. It was an awesome trip and am ready to go back!!! Reality TV would have been great especially the first three days - the freakouts, ghetto rafts and people hopping from camp to camp trying to get on other trips (which I still can't believe)!

Pearen - I wonder if the guy you are referring to at Loon Creek was our biggest ass...blondish hair, wearing a cowboy hat.......??? He was the biggest $&*! ever!

Can I have some more tea please???

Happy paddling )


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## pearen

Patricia said:


> I wonder if the guy you are referring to at Loon Creek was our biggest ass...blondish hair, wearing a cowboy hat.......??? He was the biggest $&*! ever!


That's the guy! Six round boats, no cats or kayaks. Party from Bellingham, WA area. The guy had major short man complex and couldn't stop spraying if he tried.

One of my favorite things about high water runs on the MFS is the sense of community between different groups. I recognize everyone is there for some variation of a wilderness experience, but there is also a firm understanding that if the shit goes down everyone is there for everyone else. This dude thought he owned the MFS and wanted to tell everyone else to piss off. 

Whatever, we only had to deal with him for a few hours and he provided entertainment for the rest of the trip.

BTW, What video?


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## Arn

I just got off the MFS on Sat with a group of nine. The flow hung around 6' the entire time and was a big water flush. Glad we did not flip anything or have any substantial swims as that would have been very ugly. The take out had two large logs on it now. We had to rope our rafts into the landing to unload them. It was pretty sketchy as we almost lost a cataraft.


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## jkisraft

pearen said:


> That's the guy! Six round boats, no cats or kayaks. Party from Bellingham, WA area. The guy had major short man complex and couldn't stop spraying if he tried.
> 
> 
> BTW, What video?


Yea- where is the video. I would love to see it. By the way, I put up 5 of your (Pearen) pics from Dagger on the Idaho whitewater Yahoo group site.


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## Patricia

pearen said:


> That's the guy! Six round boats, no cats or kayaks. Party from Bellingham, WA area. The guy had major short man complex and couldn't stop spraying if he tried.
> 
> One of my favorite things about high water runs on the MFS is the sense of community between different groups. I recognize everyone is there for some variation of a wilderness experience, but there is also a firm understanding that if the shit goes down everyone is there for everyone else. This dude thought he owned the MFS and wanted to tell everyone else to piss off.
> 
> Whatever, we only had to deal with him for a few hours and he provided entertainment for the rest of the trip.
> 
> BTW, What video?


Agreed - you just don't see that attitude anywhere ont he river especially high water when things are more likey to happen. My boyfriend and him got into it at Sheepeater becaue again he felt like he "owed" the MF. Large campsites up stream and down stream - we hit the downstream eddy and camped in the large campsite. He was so out of control I have never seen such a thing on the river - ever. During high you get the camps you can get and there was plenty of space and he wanted no part of us near Sheepeater even though we we out of sight. Sorry but dude was an ass. They had one cool guy, Jesse, in their group and not even sure how he got hooked up with them. Dude was a complete ass - had no business being there. I had to walk away from the conversation between them - he just wanted to hear himself talk. They flew out, huh??? Interesting.... So not cool the river ...we called him Tom Petty the rest of the trip  He was upset that we had camped in his crouquet course that took up the entire camp, which we didn't know and wasn't obvious. I think Tim spoke to him when we first arrived, but didn't help and he just ranted the entire night and morning about other people taking over "his" campsite. I think he would have tried to chase off anyone passing through just to stop at the hot springs - they had already been there the night before and technically weren't allowed a second night at the same campsite. You just have to sit back and shake you head......not try to understand.

I will have to find out who has the video(s) but it shows you rowing and the tree coming up behind you and you entered Dagger with more behind. It came right between your tubes then you jumped off to the concrete fish weir and then back on (crazy! & big skills!) - I think someone may have the flip, but it seems eveyone saw it but me in realtime - I was probably cooking while all the guys portaged gear - gotta keep them fed.

I will get ahold of it and have it e-mailed to you some how.....drop me a line. Glad you guys had a great trip! 

Happy Paddling 
Patricia

[email protected]


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## Canada

Please put that up for all of us. Sounds amazing! To catch it on film even more so.


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## pearen

Patricia said:


> Dude was a complete ass - had no business being there. I had to walk away from the conversation between them - he just wanted to hear himself talk. They flew out, huh??? Interesting....


I didn't write very clearly before. We encountered this party at Sheepeater the night before you guys with very similar results. We stayed in the exact same lower camp you guys used and got bitched at. Two different parties flew out at Loon.

Oh, and I totally expected to get called out on the buzz for saying that the MFS was a shit show. I guess it is pretty hard to disagree at this point, or maybe buzzards just enjoy a little smacktalking.


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## Snowhere

So what was his problem? Was he trying to keep people out of a camp besides his own?


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## raft3plus

*Oh my*

Pearen, your post is so well written and entertaining! Thank you for contributing. Great to know no one got hurt in everyone's escapades, especially when everything around you degenerates into said shitshow.

Please post video on youtube and put link here.... yes? Ohboyohboyohboy I can't wait!!!

Buzzards like us prove that a little smacktalking... not only smells like victory, but is also best done with 3 PBR minimum.


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## Patricia

When I get my hands on the video I will post it - Pearen you must have copies for your own use...to be passed down from generation to generation!! I only wish we had video or pics of Tim riding our poor raft down Marsh cranking with a log on top of it. Amazing stories on both sides...at some point I will be writing a small (maybe not so small) trip report of our journey - it is worth the effort in putting it in ink.

For the record it was a cluster that week with people freaking out, hiking out, flying out, jumping trips, leaving gear behind - it's all good on the river - people just need to learn to hold the shit together and be prepared not all trips are smooth sailing especially big water. IT"S ALL GOOD and everyone was safe and we had a blast! Ready for next year but I would love to see it for once at lower water. This was trip #2 at high water. I would love to kayak it at lower flows 

Patricia


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## oarboatman

Wow what a thread.... It is amazing how the game of telephone makes the story sooooo much bigger and [email protected]#$%ed. Thanks for all the shit talking. Its nice to known that only two members posted something positive about us, my rig, and my boating abilities was 3+ and Mike. 

We launched on Marsh on the 24th and took out at Clarkston, WA 25 days later. I may post more about the trip but everyone should know that our party is all well and we did not have any carnage that was not due to a ranger being incompetent regarding Main Salmon rules.


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## ActionJackson

pearen said:


> ...and the other was a dude in a Dagger Green Boat running the whole thing solo in a day.


Come back? How many miles is that for a single day?


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## dgosn

oarboatman said:


> I may post more about the trip but everyone should know that our party is all well and we did not have any carnage that was not due to a ranger being incompetent regarding Main Salmon rules.



I too was not too impressed with the rangers at corn creek. I had to explain during the equipment check out what a firepan and groover was. The gitl couldn't have been more than 19. She looked at the firepan and asked 'So this is a groover..." 

glad to see you guys had a kick ass trip

scott


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## jkisraft

ActionJackson said:


> Come back? How many miles is that for a single day?


 Would be about 115 if he had finished what he intended but he quit at about 85 miles.


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## Badazws6

We are putting on Friday. Anyone have anything recent on the logs at the take out?

MR


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## carvedog

Badazws6 said:


> We are putting on Friday. Anyone have anything recent on the logs at the take out?
> 
> MR


As of last night at about 5:30 the ramp was clear. At Cache Bar that is. Seems like that is what you were referring too. 

We heard stories about some stuff going on out there still last week. FTW?
Pretty mellow flow right now. Don't know what is happening to cause all this. Maybe too much blood in some peoples alcohol supply. I know that didn't happen to me.


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## Badazws6

Nice, thanks.


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## Junk Show Tours

I took out on June 14, the ramp at Cache bar had been cleared of the tree.


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## pearen

jkisraft said:


> Would be about 115 if he had finished what he intended but he quit at about 85 miles.


We saw him a week few days later over on the Lochsa. On day 2 he paddled from Fish Camp all the way to Riggins, another 120 miles. 200+ Miles on the Salmon in two days!


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