# USFS approed Toilet options



## Skyman (Jun 26, 2006)

The Wag Bag system is much cheaper and you can make a receptacle out of a bucket. Purchase a toilet lid, with a router cut a groove in the underneath side of the toilet lid so it matches the diameter of the bucket. Toss the used Wag Bags in a rocket box. Some National Parks still do not allow the Wag Bag system though.


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## kengore (May 29, 2008)

Rules vary river to river. Wag bag is specifically forbidden on some of my local rivers. 

I went with the Eco-safe product. It was expensive, but it is really bomb proof and it is compatible with most everybody else for longer trips that need extra capacity. It has fittings that let you empty at any RV dump site. I can buy spare parts at most river shops.

After consulting with some river friends I decided that carrying a weeks worth of poo in my vehicle from the take-out to the nearest dump station was worth the investment. Horror stories about hot cars and explosive release of contents... 

I've seen people adapt a 5 gallon bucket and a screw on Gamma Lid. I used to use Gamma Lids for my food storage and have had O-ring failures AND had the lid pop off in a big wave. Glad is was just chips that escaped, not effluent.


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## mattman (Jan 30, 2015)

You could build yourself one out of a rocket box that has a leak proof seal.
We had Ceiba Rental on our Grand trip, it was basically just a rocket box, with a toilet seat frame that was stored in a separate box. The frame was made out of plate aluminum I believe, it had a groove that slid over the lip of the rocket box.
One advantage, is that you can just about fill it to the brim.
One disadvantage, is that you need a scat machine to empty the thing, or Ceiba to do it for you.
Only one seal on it, but the G.C.N.P. service still accepts them.
Take a look at an Eco safe online, I'm sure it's possible to fit a second lid with similar fitting's, swap out lids when you go to the R.V. dump.

For a very small overnight, I have used a bucket with a screw top lid, added some small bits of charcoal from the fire pan, to keep down smell down, and dumped it in my toilet when I got home. Was actually the most pleasant groover dump yet, the charcoal desicated and absorbed the stink.


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## mattman (Jan 30, 2015)

Should add that my Eco safe is what I use most of the time though, unless i am on a short small boat trip, and need to shave some weight


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## Skyman (Jun 26, 2006)

We've been using the ecosafe for years. We make sure we add some blue stuff to the receptacle prior to use as it really helps with odor and breaks down the solids so cleaning at an RV dump is a breeze. Scat machines are disgusting. Make sure you keep a certain amount of liquid in the groover or you will end up with a shit brick. NOT fun cleaning that.


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## lmyers (Jun 10, 2008)

The PVC tube is acceptable if your using a small, self contained craft.... this is my method and it is acceptable on a per person basis on the Grand: "_For the groover (or poop tube), I used a lightweight 18in x 4in PVC sewer pipe with a cap on one end and a screw fitting on the other. Inside, I made a foam stopper on a string to compact and separate the waste from my tp, hand sanitizer and unused Wag Bags. It weighed in at less than 2 lbs using the lightweight pipe, but I would go to 20” if I were to do it again. The “rule of thumb” is 40 cubic inches per day. With a 4” pipe, I think 2” of length per day is ideal._" https://www.riversports.com/self-support-kayaking-a-how-to/


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## rivers2run (Jun 7, 2012)

We use a rocket box when there is a scat machine and on other rivers with no scat machine we use wag bags both work just fine. PS reired Forest Service.


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## Roguelawyer (Apr 2, 2015)

There is a product named "Luggable Loo" that runs about $40. It is basically a 5 gallon bucket with a screw on lid. Comes with a toilet seat to attach. Works great for short trips with just a couple of people. I would hate to deal with one that was more than half full. I use mine for lower Rogue trips where I almost never use a groover.


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## MountainMedic (Apr 24, 2010)

Cheapest way is to gorilla glue two buckets together to make a double wall container and throw a gamma lid on it.

We use the ecosafe. It's a legit pain in a scat machine, the RV style dump is the way easier.

As gross as it sounds, I like to let it sit for a week before the big flush. It gives the stew time to become soup.

Sent from my XT1585 using Mountain Buzz mobile app


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## stuntsheriff (Jun 3, 2009)

i like my johnny partner because it is repairable in the field


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## slickhorn (Dec 15, 2005)

kengore said:


> Rules vary river to river. Wag bag is specifically forbidden on some of my local rivers.


Just to clarify...

I am aware of several rivers that prohibit wag bags used alone. I am not aware of any river where "wag bags are specifically forbidden."

The wag bag simplifies cleanup and contains deposits. I hate plastic trash too, but wag bags in a solid tank is as clean, fast, and easy as groover duty gets.

But wag bags are not how anyone packs their poo on their boat. Some rivers do not accept plastic bucket/PETT style storage. 

But you can use wag bags in an approved storage tank on any river.


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## markhusbands (Aug 17, 2015)

I actually believe that wag bags are prohibited on Rio Chama, even if you store the bags in a waterpoof, hard-sided container during transport.


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## PhilipJFry (Apr 1, 2013)

markhusbands said:


> I actually believe that wag bags are prohibited on Rio Chama, even if you store the bags in a waterpoof, hard-sided container during transport.


bring an ammo can and wag bags, the can itself is approved. don't mention the bags.


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## slickhorn (Dec 15, 2005)

BLM Rio Chama regs perpetuate the various inadequacies of passive voice and imprecise language giving rise to this whole debate: 

Rules, Permit Stipulations and Other Requirements
» Solid human waste must be carried out in a washable/reusable container.
Plastic bags are not allowed. Liquid waste should be strained into the river.
The human waste vault at Big Eddy remains closed. Please flush your toilet at
an RV dump station, available in Española, Santa Fe, Taos, and Durango.
» Washable/reusable toiletsthat meet our requirements are available at river
or outdoor equipment outlets. Contact your local boating supplier, orsearch
the internet.

https://www.blm.gov/sites/blm.gov/files/uploads/Rio Chama Brochure - 2016.pdf

You will not get busted for using a wag bag in combination a proper washable/reusable container. You will get busted if you sh*t in a wag bag and toss the full wag bag in a roll top dry bag.


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## Infidien (May 27, 2013)

Dinosaur prohibits wag bags except for "small boat " trips


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## slickhorn (Dec 15, 2005)

https://www.nps.gov/dino/planyourvisit/upload/2017DinosaurBoatingInformation-forwebsite.pdf

"Bag systems (such as wag bags or PET systems) are only permitted for small craft, self-supported river groups. Bags need to be stored in a crush-proof container."

Again, wag bags are not prohibited. A wag bag only SYSTEM is prohibited. Go find pictures of the old original PET wag bag based portable toilet. That is the system that is prohibited everywhere. 

Call a ranger on any permitted river and ask if wag bags are ok and they will all say no. Because wag bags are not a groover. But on any river you can use wag bags in your approved groover system. Just as mentioned above re the pvc kayaker poop tube.

So long as your groover container meets the other requirements, wag bags are just fine. Don't be a jerk, don't dump them at takeout, take 'em into town to a gas station dumpster.

a 50mm ammo can and a couple of wag bags makes a great lunch time on-call groover.


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## wycoloboater (Nov 18, 2003)

Might be a silly questions, but for those that are using wag bags, how many uses are you getting out of a bag? I've carried them for years but never actually used one? Are you getting multiple uses out of a bag or swapping out each use?


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## Skyman (Jun 26, 2006)

you can do multiple uses in a WAG bag if disposing in a 50MM ammo can. Not sure if I would do more than two or three per bag.


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## Infidien (May 27, 2013)

We use 1 per morning for a small group. Wouldn't want to reopen and reuse.


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## lmyers (Jun 10, 2008)

wycoloboater said:


> Might be a silly questions, but for those that are using wag bags, how many uses are you getting out of a bag? I've carried them for years but never actually used one? Are you getting multiple uses out of a bag or swapping out each use?


When using a Wag Bag in the PVC tube system I generally get like 4-6 uses from each one. The tube I made is 4" instead of the 6" that is standard for the Grand Canyon, but I still can carry several extra bags and even on a 6 day trip (longest I have done) the tube was nowhere near full.


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## 2tomcat2 (May 27, 2012)

Stipulations for Deso Gray:

e. a washable, leak-proof, reusable toilet system that allows for the carryout
and disposal of solid human body waste in a responsible and lawful
manner. The system must be adequate for the size of the group and length
of the trip. Leaving solid human body waste on Public Land or dumping it
into vault toilets or trash receptacles at BLM facilities is prohibited.
If you are using Wag-bags, or similar waste containment systems pay particular
attention to the word “leak-proof” in this stipulation. Leak-proofing your wag bag
system will be best accomplished using an ammo can or other hard sided container
to prevent punctures to the bag. Whatever kind of toilet system you are using,
please read the manufactures recommendation on suitable user day expectations.


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## solboater (May 9, 2011)

Roguelawyer, hopefully the reason that you are rarely using your groover on the Rogue is that you have the means to stay in the lodges, or the luck and skill to get the limited camps that have pit toilets. The reason I bring this up on the forum is to make sure as locals we are perpetuating a culture of taking care of our resources and not abusing them. 
The new policy is "When a current pit toilet is full, the pit will be filled and the structure dismantled, restoring the resource to its natural character." Not using your groover on the Rogue will become more and more challenging if you follow the regulations and don't stay in lodges. Here is a link to the current pit toilets in place. www.blm.gov/or/resources/recreation/files/brochures/portable_toilet_guide.pdf

Here is an article speaking to issues on the Rogue around improper human waste : http://www.siskiyoumountainclub.org/roguepoop/

Cheers


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