# Rafter Forum?



## Andy H. (Oct 13, 2003)

Hi Bucky,

Welcome to the Buzz! There are actually quite a few of us rafters that hang out here. For a "Kayaking" website, I'm constantly surprised at the breadth and depth of knowledge that you can find here related to inflatable boats.

If you post rafting-related questions on the Buzz you'll usually get some good responses. Other sites to check would be the email lists run by UtahRafters-dot-com or the Grand Canyon Private Boaters Assoc. at GCPBA-dot-org. Those are really good sources of information for rafting in general and Canyon Country boating in particular. There's also the Denver group called High Country Rver Rafters at HCRR-dot-org - they have monthly meetings in Denver, as well as the Pikes Peak River Runners (PPRR-dot-org) down in Colorado Springs.

Stick around and I think you'll be pleasantly surprised with what the Buzz has to offer from the local perspective.

SYOTR,

--Andy H.


----------



## rwhyman (May 23, 2005)

If you have rafting questions, fire away.
Like Andy says, there are rafters lurking amongst the buzzards. I'm a rafter and I'm on here all the time.

For Idaho, try this yahoo group.
idahowhitewater : Idaho Whitewater
I get the feeling this group leans more toward the rafting side.

And also check out the groups Andy talked about.


----------



## caverdan (Aug 27, 2004)

Welcome to the buzz, Becky. 

I'm a rafter too and get all my info right here. We're all one big happy (disfunctional) family here so ask away. A lot of the kayaks here have driven a raft before............you just got to get them to admit it. :mrgreen:


----------



## oarbender (Feb 3, 2007)

yep, Im with you Bucky. I frequent BT a lot, but limited info about western goods.

I kayak, but given the option, I would rather row. I'll be here, On the buzz, and I will also be working the gorge this season. But when time permits, Im looking to hit Cat, WW, and other goodies in the area.

Lets get together.
I have a 12' cat, for playin' and a Maravia Willawa 2 for the multi-day stuff, they are both coming with me.


----------



## WhiteLightning (Apr 21, 2004)

Kayaker turned rafter here too. Boatertalk's raft thread is great for raft specific stuff. The buzz is a good all-round community for (mostly) Colorado. Despite the whole kayak thing, it is more of a general whitewater community and to some degree, a snow/backcountry type community too.


----------



## tuberslickmysweatyballs (Sep 24, 2005)

yeah, just post. nobody cares if you raft or kayak here beyond the i'm-bored-at -work shit talking.


----------



## raftus (Jul 20, 2005)

*Yep more rafters*

Another rafter, what is happening to this site?

Oh, wait, I am a rafter too. I also frequent Boater Talk's raft zone.


----------



## Andy H. (Oct 13, 2003)

wow, we're coming out of the woodwork!

...My name is Andy, and I'm a rafter.... :-D


----------



## Ture (Apr 12, 2004)

I'm wondering if I know who BuckyTheGREAT is. My good buddy captains a light blue Wing named "Bucky Blue" and he is an infamous nudist.

Is that you?


----------



## Mark_K (Mar 28, 2007)

Hi, my name is Mark and I'm a rafter. LOL

Looking forward to learning about potentially cool raft trips (first descents, etc), gear reviews, and hearing some good kayaker jokes.


----------



## N. Wigston (Nov 5, 2003)

Andy, 
Maybe the Buzz should have a rafting forum. I think it would draw more people than the dirtbiking one. 
nick


----------



## stinginrivers (Oct 18, 2003)

Hi my name is Danny and I am a rafter

I have been dealing with this rubber obsession for about 15years, it started as a fun thing to do every once in a while now it is just out of control.

I have at least acknowledged that I have a rafting problem but that is where my 12 steps ends.


----------



## oarbender (Feb 3, 2007)

as much traffic as the buzz gets by everyone who run rivers, having a "spot" for rafters would be great!


----------



## Andy H. (Oct 13, 2003)

> Maybe the Buzz should have a rafting forum


Andy R., the administrator and the Buzz Crew have already talked about that and decided (as seems to be the general consensus) that there are already more than enough forums on the Buzz right now. Its why the "Boater's Forum" isn't called "Kayaking Forum" or something like that - we're all boaters and there are too many that kayak AND raft that we don't want to split it out like that. If there's enough demand that may change but probably not while the Buzz is already going through enough growing pains with the makeover.

In the meantime, here's a little contest for the rubbermen - Name this rapid:


----------



## oarbender (Feb 3, 2007)

I can't remeber the name, or my guess is "suprise", but its just down stream from the room 'o doom.

ya?


----------



## Andy H. (Oct 13, 2003)

Boy, that didn't take long... Its actually called Bowling Alley but you got the most important thing right. Its the first rapid below Skull (and the 'Room) on Westwater when the flow's below about 4 to 5K. It's a great hit and good place to eddy out below and, uh, review your safety procedures before running Sock-it-to-Me, while your kayaking buds surf their hearts out on it.


----------



## raftus (Jul 20, 2005)

*seperate but equal?*

I also vote to keep it as one forum - we are all Colorado boaters - well a few Nuevo Mexeicano's too, but ultimately we are all here for the same reason. I have friends that occasionally kayak along when I raft - or give me their friends and significant others to carry - apparently they mistakenly trust me, or maybe them just don't like their girlfriends anymore. 

Except for the smaller creeks, rafts can run most everything the kayaks can, and some rafters like to push that as far as possible be rafting things like Vallecito and the North Fork of the Crystal. So lets all be friends and drink beer.


----------



## brendodendo (Jul 18, 2004)

I have a problem, and i know it. I accept myself for who I am. I like rubber and unconventional river transport. See also... (shamelss plug) Home Page

I am perfectly fine with the buzz as is. The OT forums have there place, but the river beta and discussions would get segmented if we started a raft forum. Then what, a tuber forum, a race boat forum. No I think we get the best by leaving it all together.


----------



## vardaddy (Jun 14, 2004)

I own both types of vessels. I'll raft or kayak depending on the need.


----------



## YakaRaft (Dec 7, 2006)

*I think my name says it all....*

I love both! can't we all just get along?


----------



## onebakedpotato (May 12, 2005)

Both? There is more than two ways to get down a river.


----------



## JBL (Jun 7, 2006)

I too have an obsession with oar rigs and try to get mine on the water as much as possible. Always looking for other rafters to run with. Some of my favs are the Ark, the Poudre, the Eagle, Westwater, Shoshone, Upper Blue and the Pumphouse. If it's class II-IV, I want to row it - I just like being on the oars. I'd like to run Royal Gorge, Northgate Canyon and the Rio Grand (above Creede, CO) this year if anyone is interested...

How about this one (should be pretty damn easy)?


----------



## vardaddy (Jun 14, 2004)

That looks like the top of Zoom Flume from the little bit I see of it and the parade of rafts behind it.


----------



## Robt (Mar 20, 2007)

Well since we're all coming out of the woodworks here I'll itroduce myself. Just threw in the towel and got a 14' cat last summer and gave up on off and on IK, OC-1 and OC-2 persuits in search of something different (and better so far imo)

I've got 5 spots on a Westwater permit putting in Sunday going overnight if anybody is interested. It's my first time running it too if anybody has some beta to pass along (not trying to jack the thread though). 

I spend a lot of time on the Upper-C since it's close and easy. Plan on lots of Shoshone trips this summer though, and some Roaring Fork trips too. Hoping to get down to Taos this spring, Gunny Gorge this summer and some short desert trips in the fall. 

Weekends are pretty dedicated to rafting (or will be once ski season ends) if anybody is looking for people to get out with. 

Rob


----------



## sj (Aug 13, 2004)

OK I too am a Rafter. I think if you ask here and on the BT raft site you should get the answers you are after. sj


----------



## sj (Aug 13, 2004)

Rob I spend my weekends in Blue River. Lets keep in touch. sj


----------



## JBL (Jun 7, 2006)

rafting, rafting, rafting


----------



## BuckytheGREAT (Mar 6, 2007)

*Sweet!!!*

Hey. Thanks for replying here. It's much appreciated. Now I know there are a lot of rafters out there. I feel better now.  I was beginning to think that there wasn't many when I put out a post asking for advice on food for the Salmon River in Idaho and no one really replied. I figured it was a rafting question that kayakers didn't want to answer.

No, I'm not the Bucky you're thinking of!  I probably don't know anyone in this fourm.


----------



## vardaddy (Jun 14, 2004)

Robt said:


> I've got 5 spots on a Westwater permit putting in Sunday going overnight if anybody is interested. It's my first time running it too if anybody has some beta to pass along (not trying to jack the thread though).
> 
> Rob


Rob the most important move is to make sure when you approach skull that you are on the right side of the river with your boat at an angle so you can back paddle and start moving from right to left before you enter the rapid.
The other danger part is the magnetic wall which is a couple rapids after skull. The name of the actual rapid escapes me right now but there is a lateral on the right that will typewriter your boat over into the left wall and flip you so make sure you stay right. It doesn't look like much but there is a strange hydraulic there.


----------



## vardaddy (Jun 14, 2004)

JBL I made a guess am I correct?


----------



## JBL (Jun 7, 2006)

Yep. Nailed it.


----------



## JBL (Jun 7, 2006)

The name of the rapid in question is Sock It To Me. 

Run the meat of that shiat. :twisted:


----------



## COUNT (Jul 5, 2005)

Sock-It-To-Me is the rapid with the Magnetic Wall. That wave has also been known to flip rafts (I don't know the raft line, but I've run all the lines in my plastic coffin). I believe it goes Skull, Bowling Alley, Sock-it-to-Me. And I'm in agreement with Vardaddy on peak season Zume Flume.

COUNT

EDIT: Oops, you guys both beat me to it while I was posting.


----------



## vardaddy (Jun 14, 2004)

Sock it to me line can be done a couple of different way in a raft. I've done it both ways but I like being about in the middle of the river and moving towards the right side forward paddling and punching the the right side of the wave with a lot of momentum and that should keep you from getting pushed over into the wall. 
The other way is to to have the front of your boat pointed towards the magnetic wall (left side) and back paddling hard as you go through the wave to move right.


----------



## oarbender (Feb 3, 2007)

so, You COULD go backwards pointed river right, and push. Or go backwards, pointed river left and pull.......you could also ship your oars, and pop a top..... ( I wear a hi-float, and Im a great swimmer.......)


----------



## Robt (Mar 20, 2007)

Thanks for the info. 

I can't wait to get on the river.

Rob


----------



## Andy H. (Oct 13, 2003)

Oarbender - You *better* wear a Hi-Float if that's how you're gonna run SITM! :-D


----------



## coloradopaddler (Jun 16, 2005)

hey guys,
i paddle whitewater canoe, as well as other types. i just sucked it up and ordered a raft, mostly for my family. i have a daughter that will be one next month and needed a baby barge. i figured that if i wanted to be on the river that i would just have to take her and her mom with. so anyway, i'll definately be following any raft topics that arise, and probably asking a few questions every now and then. my rafting skills have come from rowing fishing rigs, not much whitewater. maybe someone around bayfield, co. will help me learn the ropes.
later
jim


----------



## grammicci14 (Apr 3, 2007)

*rafts?*

Az boater here, names Joey and I'm shopping for my first raft. 
What boats are people running out there?

I'm looking at the NRS Otter,Aire R, and Vanguards. all 14'.

Any advice is always welcome, and as soon as I get a boat I'll be looking for some action!
Cheers


----------



## caverdan (Aug 27, 2004)

grammicci14 said:


> Az boater here, names Joey and I'm shopping for my first raft.
> What boats are people running out there?
> 
> I'm looking at the NRS Otter,Aire R, and Vanguards. all 14'.
> ...


I own a 12' Vanguard and absolutely love it. It's one of the rare hypolon models. As far as 14', if your going for a gear boat, I'd go for an NRS expedition series or an old Avon. I love my Avon. IMO, the 14' Avon is the best all around boat out there. Everyone else is trying to copy them. Vanguard is basically a copy off of Avon. If I had to choose between NRS and Vanguard, it would be aa tough choice. Stay away from the cheaper NRS's. Go with an expedition series if you choose that brand.


----------



## Andy H. (Oct 13, 2003)

It really depends on what rivers you plan to spend most of your time on and what kind of boating you'll be doing (headwaters paddle boating or desert multi-day trips?). I've got a 14' Vanguard (see photo). I love it and feel like a 14' boat is optimum for a single-boat owner in Colorado. Its small enough for the headwaters rivers and big enough to run the Grand with, and was a great deal when I picked it up a few years ago. Others will tell you a 12' is best. 

Do the research and good luck!

--Andy


----------



## vardaddy (Jun 14, 2004)

Own a 14' Hyside. I agree with Andy that a 14' is a great size for only having one boat.


----------



## caverdan (Aug 27, 2004)

I'd edit my above post but I don't see a way with this new software........Anyways........I'd pick a Vanguard over an Otter series. The Vanguard has thicker material and has more chafe pads in the right spots.

As far as Aire's go........never owned one and never driven one, but have seen someone try and fix one once. It wasn't pretty...... had to completely derig to get to the bladder......then spent several hours trying to get the thing to zip back together. Would have been soooooo much easier to throw a patch on the outside. It's the one downfall of having a bladder system.


----------



## JBL (Jun 7, 2006)

I row an NRS E140 (14') and agree that a 14'er is the way to go if you're only going to have one boat. You can boat everything from Upper Rustic on the Poudre to Browns Canyon to Westwater to the Gates of Lodore.


----------



## rwhyman (May 23, 2005)

I agree that a 14'er is the best all around size. I row an Aire 143R that's been good to me, although I've never had to do a river repair or any repair for that matter, but I do try and keep the zipper in good working order.
My Cat is also an Aire.


----------



## El Flaco (Nov 5, 2003)

_I'm looking at the NRS Otter,Aire R, and Vanguards. all 14'._


Before buying a boat, take a close look at the warranty- I personally think that's a big selling point. I'm buying an Aire 156 this spring, and the 10 year warranty is a big part of that decision. I also had a Aire cat for 7-8 years & was happy with the quality. Never had a blowout, although I saw my buddy John blow out the outer seam of his Aire Super Puma in its 9th year. He was able to keep the inner bladder in its place (which had expanded but not burst) with a strap-wrap system, and finish the run (the Numbers). When he got home he sent it to Aire and they fixed it & sent it back for only the shipping cost. 

Upsides- 

Durability (IMO from owning an Aire boat for most of its warranty life)
Cost- A little cheaper than the NRS expedition and Avons
Supposed quick fixes are debatable; although I know personally that you can service or replace a valve very easily yourself
You can replace the bladders easily and relatively cheaply
Downsides-

Weight (bladder adds more)
Cost compared to Vanguards
You have to take care of your zippers or they will be tough to open when you need to & they scare some folks as a weak point
Hypalon vs PVC debate, if that's a concern to you (it isn't to me b/c my boat isn't in the sun all summer long)
I stuck with the Aire's because of the warranty, that they can be serviced stateside, cost, and I'm brand loyal after owning one. I almost bought the 15' Pro DRE - those are really nice as well and you have the manufacturer right here in CO. Plus they're great guys that make great frames & accessories too. But, they're Hypalon and cost more, and the warranty is only 5 years. Same with NRS Otters; only the E-series have a 10 year warranty. Couldn't find anything about warranties on the Vanguard boats.

Good luck!


----------



## WhiteLightning (Apr 21, 2004)

I have a hypolon Hyside that I think was made in about 1993 or so. It has seen some pretty serious commercial miles, and looks like hell. The thing is, that sumbitch can do a 2 day trip without having to be topped off after the putin. The floor usually needs a couple of puffs in the morning due to the pressure release valve, but other than that it is bomber, and is maybe 14 years old? The outfitter I work for uses Hyside almost exclusively and they are ~almost~ indestructable. If you can manage having a little bit softer boat, these are great, and they fold up pretty small. We can even get them pretty damn tight for class IV-V trips, especially the new ones.


----------



## raftus (Jul 20, 2005)

*Hyside*

I have a 14' Hyside as well - it is an older commercial model with the military valves, it was used commercially before it came to me. It is fairly bombproof and it's a great all around boat for CO. Despite the commercial use and abuse it still holds air well and has done good for me on Gore, Clear Creek, Pine Creek, Pineview Falls, Slaughterhouse and everywhere else I have taken it. The newer Hyside outfitter models are even better - lighter and faster in the water but still very durable. The newer style valves (Leafield) are also a big improvement.

Personally I don't like PVC as much but I have friends who love and swear by their AIRE's. I have also heard generally good things about the NRS boats.


----------



## JBL (Jun 7, 2006)

While I love my NRS Expedition, if I had to do it over again i'd definitely give the Hysides a good look in addition to NRS. I've been on lots of trips with folks who have Hysides and they're well built and well designed.


----------



## grammicci14 (Apr 3, 2007)

*More ????*

Got some more newbie questions. Some of these might be preference but hey?
Frame- Spreader bars or just a rectangular frame that sits on top?
Oars- cataract or carlisles?
My friends dad said to splurge and get cataracts (was an outfitter in the 70's/Grand).
Any frame suggestions also welcome!
:-D


----------



## El Flaco (Nov 5, 2003)

I would defintely recommend those internally counter-balanced Cataracts. Those make rowing a lot easier - I had the Carlisles for years and didn't realize what a difference that made until rowing someone else's boat.

As for frames, I'm trying to decide exxactly how to lay mine out as well. The one thing I'm sold on is the DRE Captain's chair.


----------



## raftus (Jul 20, 2005)

*NRS vs. Hyside*



JBL said:


> While I love my NRS Expedition, if I had to do it over again i'd definitely give the Hysides a good look in addition to NRS. I've been on lots of trips with folks who have Hysides and they're well built and well designed.


What don't you like about the NRS? What do you like better about the Hyside?

Does anyone have Hyside's Rio Bravo's? How do they compare to other boats? It looks like they have a lot fewer seams which could mean fewer wear points and a slightly faster boat. Any downsides/compromises?


----------



## WhiteLightning (Apr 21, 2004)

Timberline Tours is a Vanguard dealer, and they have some ok deals at Rafts for Less Timberline Tours. If you have money get good oars, if not, then carlisle will still get the job done. I got some counterweights on my carlisles. It's one of those things where you probably will be happy with your carlisles until you upgrade or row someone elses. It's like driving a Camry, it's fine, but when you get a Porsche you won't want to go back.


----------



## JBL (Jun 7, 2006)

I like everything about the NRS except how low the floor is stitched into the tubes, which exposes the floor more than I'd like. If you flip a Hyside over and look at how the floor is stitched to the tubes, it's done in a way that makes the floor ride higher off the water, and therefore susceptible to less abuse. Additionally, the bottom of the tubes (at least on the models I've seen) is considerably more reinforced than the NRS tubes. I have a good friend who has a '93 Hyside and it's still in great shape due (I think) in large part to the design. 

As for frames, take a look at:

NRS Home - Frames

Rowing Frames for Whitewater Rafts, Fishing Boats, and Catarafts.

Cascade Outfitters Whitewater Rafting Equipment: Raft Frames

PRO: Grand Canyon Rafting Equipment Sales

Whitewater River Rowing Frames for Rafts, Catarafts and Inflatables from The Boat People

I row wtih Carlisles and they're fine for the money. Like anything, it all depends on how much you have or want to spend.


----------



## zbaird (Oct 11, 2003)

as for the rio bravo. my experience is very limited but heres my take. i am not sold on the material and or chafe areas nor am i fond of the seemingly wet ride or lack of floatation. buddy of mine has multiple leaks in a newer boat. the diminishing tubes in front are real small and the rocker is low. it does seem fast and is very light. probably worth it for a entry level paddle raft, but it seeems to be just that. 

on oars. carlisles work. cataracts work better and are lighter. counter balance is nice but the cataracts are so light that when coupled with a higher end lighter blade it really isnt needed. counters also make the oars a bitch to recover and also leave deeper bruises in passengers when they give someone the inevitable beatdown.


----------



## tuberslickmysweatyballs (Sep 24, 2005)

When shopping for a frame and oars... make sure you look at all it's uses down the road. Both my frame and oars are breakdown stuff because at least once or twice a year it is getting shoved on a bush plane or the back of a horse. So while Carlisle's are not the best feeling oars in the world, the two piece ones work well for my needs and they are bombproof oars,no doubt.

Another vote for Hyside,too. The Rio Bravo's are pieces of shit though. Go Outfitter or Outfitter Pro. 

Nothing wrong with Aire or NRS though. You'll most likely be happy with any of them. All good brands.


----------



## Robt (Mar 20, 2007)

As far as frames it is pretty personal, and you won't have things figured out right off the bat. I feel that lighter and smaller is better for me, but that's not for everybody (think about: where you're going, how many people you're going with, how strong those people are, how big the water is, how the raft will be moved, how it will be stored). As far as frames Down River Equipment is the best way to go imo. Well worth the money. Check them out online: www.downriverequip.com Get one of their captains chairs whatever you do for your frame though. 

As far as oars everybody’s advice has been right on. I'd throw Sawyer oars into the mix too. I would splurge on some Sawyers if I were to splurge on oars. Alternately, their Polecats are pretty nice oars and not really much more money than the Carlisles. 

Rob


----------



## vardaddy (Jun 14, 2004)

Back up what everybody said on oars Carlilse oars are good and definitely get the job done. I was fortunate when I bought my boat from a guy that he threw in a set of cataract oars and while I had no idea at the time it is definitely a nice perk. 
I have an old DRE frame with the white tractor seat but my roommate has a newer DRE frame and I would agree they are one of the best in the business. They have every kind of option under the sun including some nice fishing set-ups that I drool over for times when the whitewater is low. Like others said it all depends on your interests. I would try and go see as many set-ups as possible before purchasing a frame.


----------



## JBL (Jun 7, 2006)

There are a gazillion ways to set up your frame but for multi-day trips you'll usually see either a 3-bay or a 4-bay frame (bay=compartment). I run a 3-bay (cooler/seat, rowers compartment w/ wood drop floor, dry box in front). I have room in the rowers compartment to safely and easily store 3 rocket boxes and 1 sm. ammo can (repair kit). I also have a wood drop floor in the stern for loading gear onto. I have a custom double-rail frame that has wood decking along both sides of the raft which is really nice. I'm very happy with my set up and have used it on day trips and multi-day trips. For day trips, I don't run the dry box - luckily my front thwart fits perfectly in that compartment and so I run a board over the thwart and cover it with a paco pad. It's lighter and much easier to deal with for day trip than dragging out the dry box. I still run the cooler on day trip since it doubles as my seat and I love beer. I don't run the floor in the stern but do run the center floor. I've toyed with the idea of adding one more cross bar on the frame to add a 4th bay, which I'd use for a drop bag and cover with one of those long skinny folding tables. Those tables are hard to beat but I don't want to give up the system I have for carrying rocket boxes (food storage, trash, etc.). Clavey has a great "expedition package manual" which fully explains the 4-bay system in detail. 

http://clavey.com/CLAVEY PACKAGE MANUAL.pdf


----------



## leo_amore (May 30, 2006)

*For what it's worth....*

We went through a couple of new boats last spring (long story)...the first boat was a 14' Aire Tributary. It was OK, a little sluggish and kind of a wet ride and it really wasn't what we were looking for. Fortunately, we found a good home for it and didn't take too much of a hit on it. We then upgraded to a 13'10" Hyside Outfitter. It is quite a bit better boat (at least in my inexperienced opinion). It's a pretty dry ride, at least sittin' in the DRE Captains Chair. Tracks well and is very manueverable. I may be wrong but I think the outfitter line is heavier denier fabric then the NRS Expidition boats. I agree with Rob about Downriver, the frames are bombproof and the customer service is great. You also might want to talk with Ron at Riverboatworks in Salida, he's got a good gig going on down along the Arkasas. He sells Hysides and Jacks Plastic (I will own a Snubbed DaddyCat someday!) and builds frames. 
Can't wait to get on the river...Rob, what are you doing this weekend? It might be my last chance for a while, did the cooler work out OK? Did any water leak thru the tooth holes? Give me a ring.


----------



## bula (Feb 2, 2005)

I am kayaker and rafter, but I am leaning more and more toward rafting. Unfortunately for me, my finances won't allow for the 5 grand for a good boat set-up, and I've been skating by on renting and borrowing.

Wondering if anyone on this board would be interested in allowing a fellow rafter to defray the costs of the boat in exchange for three or four weekends this season? :-D

Unlikely, I know, but its tough to get the cash together for a set-up, especially when I don't own a house yet to store it in!


----------



## vardaddy (Jun 14, 2004)

You can get a boat and everything for much less than 5 grand if you hunt and with a little luck. I bought an older boat that had a whole new layer put on the floor, was in great shape, with DRE frame, oars, decking for 2,200. All I had to do was go out and buy a cooler and straps and then slowly over the next few years got a dry box etc...... Who needs a house


----------



## JBL (Jun 7, 2006)

Granted it's a bucket boat but you can get the whole package for $1000 http://www.mountainbuzz.com/swap/showproduct.php?product=6537&cat=3


----------



## oarbender (Feb 3, 2007)

jump on that boat! even if its a bucketboat. everyone bailed at one time or another, theres no shame in it at all.


----------



## brettb (Apr 9, 2005)

Located here in Clear creek county out of Georgetown!

last year our bunch of rubber & plastic feans got out at least 4 nights a week on clear creek! looking to dupe last season and more if possible!!

keep in touch if you want to go out or learn the river!!!!

we also ran Coors Falls both in raft and kayak last year with lots of safety and some beer & BBQ!(no carnage) would love to get others to join in the insanity!

We stomped it once in a raft!!!

Hyside for sure!!!! 14 Avon is great I may be getting rid of mine as I dont have time for extended trips now and like the "kayak" feel of my 9' Hyside!

Safe Ventures,
Brett


----------



## wayniac (Mar 31, 2007)

*the reason why I decided to sign on*

I'm always looking for info as well and this site seems to offer it all. I own around 8-9 boats (I lose track)- 16' raft, a couple hard plastic cats, along with another of the inflatable variety, a sit on top, a ducky and two canoes- one river one lake. Never really had the time to develop the skill required to kayak the stuff I was interested in running. And anyone who will tell you it doesn't require more skill than running a raft is fooling themselves. But I can count as friends some fairly accomplished kayakers and it's always fun to haul their gear and beer. See you on the river.


----------



## Andy H. (Oct 13, 2003)

From the Denver Post online classifieds, searched under "raft":

"Whitewater rafts, used, 14 and 16', self baling, Hysides, $1500-$1800. Also Vanguard 14' and 16' self baling rafts, $1900-$2300. (623)687-7478"

If these boats are in good shape these could be pretty good deals.

Here's a Vanguard on Craigs List, $2K http://denver.craigslist.org/boa/302565258.html

--AH


----------



## Robt (Mar 20, 2007)

brettb said:


> Located here in Clear creek county out of Georgetown!
> 
> last year our bunch of rubber & plastic feans got out at least 4 nights a week on clear creek! looking to dupe last season and more if possible!!
> 
> ...


I'd love to see how to run Clear Creek sometime. It's on my list for this year. I'll drop you a line when I'm heading over that way. 

Rob


----------



## Chip (Apr 7, 2007)

*A Cat for all seasons*

My amigo, Jack (aka Paco) hooked me on catboats, so I'll sing their praises. I like how they handle, running light. I love looking down and seeing the river. (Also, peeing without hanging off the boat.)


----------



## grammicci14 (Apr 3, 2007)

hey now, 
SEe if we can get this thread going again!!!

Anybody have any feedback/experience with any of the Swift Water rowing frames?( http://www.swiftwatersports.com/main_content/PDF%20Files/Catalogs/Frames07.pdf) the cooler frame in particular. Did you like it or not, Pros/cons etc... 

Seems like these guys have some pretty decent package deals but I am unsure about their frames.
Any ans all feedback welcome
Joey


----------



## danadog (Mar 18, 2005)

bump 
Good reading as we just bought a 14' Aire


----------



## WhiteLightning (Apr 21, 2004)

Welcome to the buzz. Aire makes a good boat, you will have a blast!


----------

