# Looking for intro to creeking creeks



## glenn (May 13, 2009)

If you are a CL III paddler just get runs in. Don't worry about whether or not you are creeking or river running or whatever. Just build skills and paddle different streams. The best creeking practice a CL III paddler can get it running hard moves on rivers that have rocks in them. Catch every eddy boof every rock, surf pillows, etc.


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## GoodTimes (Mar 9, 2006)

Taylor...

Upper East has a midget wrestler that will surprise ya.


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## tmcdevit (Jun 8, 2008)

*Foxton on N Platte*

Just go up to the boulder garden section when it's running (i.e. above 300 cfs) and run laps


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## abron (Nov 19, 2004)

So i am not a class V'er, but i got a little beta for you if you're interested.hopefully this is informative and not redundant or demeaning...

I Second on the taylor if it's flowing...thats your home 'creek' ..... low volume III with IV up top. if the Taylor is home, then the Arkansas river could be your second home. (i SO want to move up there, but it aint happening for about 14 years...til i retarr...lol) you have a great opportunity to hone your skills here.

2. Also x2 on what Glenn said. Catch every micro eddy and find hard lines through familiar rapids. dont worry about 'creeking' just yet.
the Ark at is a great place to learn test and push your skills. depending on which section youre comfortable, and certainly depending on flows, that will tell you where else to look, or... what to avoid. (the ark is certainly not the hardest, but its got the 'Colorado standard' class III & IV runs per the guidebooks, and is more then capable of serving up some humble pie...just ask me how i know... ) 

3. dont skip the essential gear, its essential for a reason. :mrgreen: maybe look up 'creeking kit/ gear' for the other pieces you will need sooner or later. 
a couple more things: 

4: Take a swiftwater class asap, and try and find a small crew that you have a good rapport with... you need to have a good team for challenging runs. You take swiftwater rescue for your own safety, but also for the group, so they should be prepared similarly. you have to practice skills more then once a year too 

5: Check out the Creeking clinic at Paddlefest this weekend. That will be an invaluable opportunity with some Pyranha team dudes, that is precisely what youre looking for. you need the foundation of the skills first, the rivers are all around you. you will meet tons of cool folks at paddlefest, and definitely (maybe) go home with more friends... i've alway tried to learn everything on the cheap,that is, from friends.... but sometimes paying for professional lessons are invaluable. you can spend a long time correcting bad habits you've acquired from paddling buddies.

CKS PaddleFest | May 24-26 2013 - Kicking off the paddling season!
ON WATER EDUCATIONAL COURSES - CKS PaddleFest | May 24-26 2013

I try to go every year. I would like to do the playboating clinic this year if possible, but i certainly would do the creeking clinic too. one can always learn... in years past i never went to any clinics, cause i was too busy trying to get laps in...! 

https://www.americanwhitewater.org/content/River/detail/id/428/
Taylor is almost up to minimum per AW, but i bet it goes... check with a Taylor Local like Yetigonewild. 
I sure wouldnt mind hitting the Taylor again, maybe on the way up to check the Upper East... :mrgreen:


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## yakr (Apr 30, 2010)

Taylor is a no brainer given how close you live. Also, gunny gorge at low water has a nice creeky feel, and it is all III in my opinion at low water. Another fun beginner creek is lower East Fork San Juan near Pagosa, but wood can be an issue so keep an eye out.


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## wabisabimike (Apr 28, 2010)

Wow, all of that is great info. I think I've got some pretty good skills in. I could always use more. The things I've got under my belt are, a solid roll, a whitewater park worthy backdeck roll, a skulling brace on my right(still a little sketch on my left), a solid brace on my left, a sketchy offside, I'm aware of my edges in attempts for eddies, I know that it's good practice to stick your paddle across eddie lines and dip that sides edge of my pyranha burn into the eddie to catch it, and I just recently ran Westwater running at 5800 in a playboat without even needing to roll once. However I portaged skull since the newbie rafters ditched us. I also self supported with two friends Cataract Canyon and ran satan's gut upside down then rolled up in time to punch the hole at the bottom of the right line. It was running only about 5000cfs. This is only my second year of really kayaking, so again, I'm tentative to run a solid class IV. Should I be?


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## abron (Nov 19, 2004)

Yes. but caution is a sign of intelligence. you'll last longer that way. :mrgreen:


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

wabisabimike said:


> This is only my second year of really kayaking, so again, I'm tentative to run a solid class IV. Should I be?


Creeks scare me. I like big water class IV. :lol:
This is my 15th year in whitewater. You're progressing a lot faster than me. 

Do what makes you happy, not what makes other people happy.



abron said:


> Yes. but caution is a sign of intelligence. you'll last longer that way. :mrgreen:


Amen to that!


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## cayo 2 (Apr 20, 2007)

For intro creeks road or trailside runs are good so you can get a look first and bail easily if you are in over your head or lose gear....practice catching difficult eddies on easier runs, if you can 't catchem on bigger slower rivers. you 'll have trouble on tight pushy stuff...creekin ' is not necessarily harder than big water...creeky character but not really steep or creek elfin 'runs are not so pushy just tighter and more manuevering with wood and other creek hazzards ..so bring able to stop /catch micro eddies is critical...

Lake Fork seems perfect for you :small, semi technical in spots, roadside, close to Gunny, mostly 3, a couple better drops to step up to or portage...I think WWoSR mentioned some 3 /4 creekin' above Lake City on Henson (Capitol Flats ?)....Anthracite is creeky 2 plus or carry up to Dark Canyon easy 4, is cranking right now..carry up to where you feel comfortable ...

Tim Foxton is No.Fork of So.Platte ..N Platte is mostly in Wyoming...lets fl some easy creeking


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## deepsouthpaddler (Apr 14, 2004)

You are probably a ways off from "intro to creeking". 

My advice would be...

1) paddle tons of class III first. A variety of runs at a variety of levels. Don't just float down the middle without making moves. Catch eddies in the middle of rapids, and make ferries to catch tough eddies. Simply eddy hopping rapids will get your skills developed quickly. You also learn boat scouting and bank scouting when you practive eddy hopping in rapids.

2) After you have dialed in class III (might take anywhere from 30-50 days, might never get there, depends on your skills), then start venturing into class IV. Stuff like numbers, clear creek, slaughterhouse. Run tons of class IV on a variety of rivers and creeks at a variety of flows. 

3) Once you have really dialed in class IV (maybe 50 days on class IV depending on your skill level) I would take a kayaker based river rescue class (Downstream edge), and I would start thinking about intro to creeks. One of the best intro creeks in the state is Bailey. You need to be a solid class IV paddler to run it, and you should we a good team of paddlers with you.

Creekboating is exciting, but its not something to jump into quickly without a solid skill set. A class III creek with wood could kill a newbie in a heartbeat. You want to build up your river running skills (catching eddies, ferries, boat scouting, line selection, boofing, bracing, rolling, etc) so that when you do start running creeks you can safely navigate them.


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## chrispy (Apr 6, 2004)

yule creek.... just kidding


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## glenn (May 13, 2009)

deepsouthpaddler said:


> You are probably a ways off from "intro to creeking".
> 
> My advice would be...
> 
> ...


I mostly agree but consider Boulder creek from the play park down or Shelly's cottages or waterton etc. Do these streams suddenly stop being creeks because they aren't steep? Sure in the vernacular they don't qualify as "creekin", but they certainly are creeks, and they are relatively beginner friendly


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## milo (Apr 21, 2004)

Wasabi mike.... Call me bro.... I'll hook you up... The east has been fun... Taylor is the shit for where you are skill wise... Lets paddle... Milo 9702751890... I live just off elk ave and 1 st st in cb... Going to pull out a nasty piece of wood out of obj after lunch.... Call me today buddy---- ps I DO NOT SANDBAG PEOPLE ON THE WATER....


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## DangerousDave (Apr 11, 2007)

*Learning to paddle creeks*

You can learn a lot on class III water. Find someone with solid class IV skills and beg or bribe them (beer usually works) to show you how to boof and hit smaller slots. You can probably find some good spots in Bogan Canyon on the Crystal at low - medium water. I seem to remember some nice boulder gardens on Slaughterhouse but it's been a while since I've run it.

The most important thing is boat control. You need to be able to put the boat on very precise lines where there is little margin for error.

You don't really need a fullface helmet or elbow pads to run class IV water. Work on not slamming into rocks and staying upright.

You could probably even find some places to practice in the Gunny Gorge but that involves a lot of flatwater.


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## cayo 2 (Apr 20, 2007)

'you mean the progression is not Decker's -Golden Play Park -Shelley's Cottages -upr. NSV put in rapid (cascade 1) laps -Yule creek -Toltec high in like. a month?...


easy creekin ' intro creekin ' whatever it is you better dabble in that before you try what Ian would consider real creekin '....you might never progress much beyond that (like me) but it is a fun alternative to 'regular 'river running....if you don 't boat easy creeks it is pretty limited selection for 3-4 boaters on the front range...


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## yetigonecrazy (May 23, 2005)

Mike in a lot of other places the Taylor would be a creek. Lets go out and do it at an ELF flow and trust me it will feel like a creek. I'm in gunny until August 6 Lets go kayaking


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## ouachita (May 27, 2009)

deepsouthpaddler said:


> 3) Once you have really dialed in class IV (maybe 50 days on class IV depending on your skill level) I would take a kayaker based river rescue class (Downstream edge),
> .


Why wait to take rescue until you are a class iv boater? Shit can hit the fan on any class river. I say take it now.


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## abron (Nov 19, 2004)

deepsouthpaddler said:


> You are probably a ways off from "intro to creeking".
> 
> My advice would be...
> 
> ...


good stuff. that is great advice to progress cautiously. 
I would also advise to do a Swiftwater class ASAP... I just did the Downstream Edge Level 2 class in Pilar, and it was awesome.(wasnt due to recert, but didnt want to miss an opportunity to learn from those guys.) everything is real life stuff. how to do on the fly rescues with minimal setups, (i.e. @ 1-3 throwbags,) and getting hands or a rope on the pt in less then a minute if possible. 
I would honestly recommend both classes, because a regular SWR class is good for the didactic portion (classroom/book learning) but the skills are always hard to remember. The DSE class is great repetition of actual rescues, (nick paddled a cracked hoss and literally pinned everywhere, and a couple times not so intentionally, lol)

if i was new to all this the DSE class would be more then adequate. i also guide and work fire/ems so the whole enchilada was the appropriate route, with the kayak specific course for my personal knowledge and well bieng..

just to give an example of my learning curve, I have been paddling since 1999, and i am still not sure if i am up to a run like Bailey yet. (yes thats a slowass learning curve. i am on the swim team for many a river...:mrgreen if i have a phenomenal year paddling, then I will try to go to Baileyfest,(btw, thanks IAN!!best time of year to have a rescue in place for your first tampax run!!) 
if not then...next year maybe. some people do class V their first year paddling, some will never even do class IV.


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## wabisabimike (Apr 28, 2010)

MT4Runner said:


> Creeks scare me. I like big water class IV. :lol:
> This is my 15th year in whitewater. You're progressing a lot faster than me.
> 
> Do what makes you happy, not what makes other people happy.
> ...


Lol thanks man I know that I'll regret it if I don't run something that's a solid IV this season. I also want to continue to paddle with my buds, who are progressing even faster than I am lol.


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## wabisabimike (Apr 28, 2010)

glenn said:


> I mostly agree but consider Boulder creek from the play park down or Shelly's cottages or waterton etc. Do these streams suddenly stop being creeks because they aren't steep? Sure in the vernacular they don't qualify as "creekin", but they certainly are creeks, and they are relatively beginner friendly


I ran Waterton last year the day after a hail storm that lasted for an hour and left three foot thick snow drifts on the highway. Waterton was AWESOME. I freaking love that run. I thought I was going to die when I was running it since it was one of the first runs I ran that year, but still. It was SICK. I'm more than comfortable on that run now.


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## wabisabimike (Apr 28, 2010)

yetigonecrazy said:


> Mike in a lot of other places the Taylor would be a creek. Lets go out and do it at an ELF flow and trust me it will feel like a creek. I'm in gunny until August 6 Lets go kayaking


Hell yeah dude!


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## wabisabimike (Apr 28, 2010)

ouachita said:


> Why wait to take rescue until you are a class iv boater? Shit can hit the fan on any class river. I say take it now.


I'll take it when I can get the money together. I need to get a driver's license first lol.


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## wabisabimike (Apr 28, 2010)

abron said:


> good stuff. that is great advice to progress cautiously.
> I would also advise to do a Swiftwater class ASAP... I just did the Downstream Edge Level 2 class in Pilar, and it was awesome.(wasnt due to recert, but didnt want to miss an opportunity to learn from those guys.) everything is real life stuff. how to do on the fly rescues with minimal setups, (i.e. @ 1-3 throwbags,) and getting hands or a rope on the pt in less then a minute if possible.
> I would honestly recommend both classes, because a regular SWR class is good for the didactic portion (classroom/book learning) but the skills are always hard to remember. The DSE class is great repetition of actual rescues, (nick paddled a cracked hoss and literally pinned everywhere, and a couple times not so intentionally, lol)
> 
> ...


Dude. You rock. I think that's about as much information as I can ask for. I'll try to get my certs as the money comes in.


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## pablovhh (Jun 13, 2008)

*Fossil creek Arizona!!*

I know you said your looking for something close but when it starts snowing up there in colorado and your all warmed up from paddling all year check out fossil creek near camp verde arizona... i took my friend in there for his first creek and he fell in love with it, there are small drops but the travertine rock is very grippy and makes it slow and forgiving at base flow 46 cfs. and drop the falls when you hike up there! we took a first time kayaker off the 15' and he didnt even flip!! he was hooked after that. just be aware the road from strawberry is closed due to erosion so you have to drive 15 miles on washboard dirt from camp verde to the hike up alongside the creek. Enjoy!!! it runs year round!!! warm spring water, no ice!


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## johng (Apr 25, 2005)

OK Mike. Can't tell if you're serious about this, but either way get those punk friends of your Jameson and Ryan and drive your shaggy ass up here to the Fort. Surfs up and you can pick and choose. If you get here next week the warm weather will likely mean everything will running - main stem, N Fork, Little South, lots on the main stem, and if you want to be destroyed then Spencer and Joe Wright. 

jg


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## wabisabimike (Apr 28, 2010)

johng said:


> OK Mike. Can't tell if you're serious about this, but either way get those punk friends of your Jameson and Ryan and drive your shaggy ass up here to the Fort. Surfs up and you can pick and choose. If you get here next week the warm weather will likely mean everything will running - main stem, N Fork, Little South, lots on the main stem, and if you want to be destroyed then Spencer and Joe Wright.
> 
> jg


Lol, I might hit you up. Have I met you before?


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## Flying_Spaghetti_Monster (Jun 3, 2010)

Yule


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## wabisabimike (Apr 28, 2010)

Flying_Spaghetti_Monster said:


> Yule


Lol thanks but I think that is a little higher than class IV.


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## johng (Apr 25, 2005)

wabisabimike said:


> Lol, I might hit you up. Have I met you before?


Yes; you'll figure it out. The Poudre is at a great level for upper (Rustic) and lower runs.


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## wabisabimike (Apr 28, 2010)

johng said:


> Yes; you'll figure it out. The Poudre is at a great level for upper (Rustic) and lower runs.


Sorry I didn't get back to you until now. I was in west virginia for a little while. Man that would be awesome, but those guys are tied up pretty hard in work and I'm too poor to even hitch hike lol. Thanks for the invite. Are you the same john that I met at Martha's after we did Cataract?


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## wabisabimike (Apr 28, 2010)

News flash. I ran Numbers (not a creeking run) and Upper East (super scary awesome for me lol). I didn't flip what so ever on Upper East but found a pretty tiny extremely sticky hole right above number five. You know the type of pour-over that has a glassy hole and no foam. Pretty freaky man lol.


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## booferton (Nov 19, 2012)

*Punk friends*



johng said:


> OK Mike. Can't tell if you're serious about this, but either way get those punk friends of your Jameson and Ryan and drive your shaggy ass up here to the Fort. Surfs up and you can pick and choose. If you get here next week the warm weather will likely mean everything will running - main stem, N Fork, Little South, lots on the main stem, and if you want to be destroyed then Spencer and Joe Wright.
> 
> jg


Hey John its Jameson! wondering how the poudre is doing we could totally make a road trip there!


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## johng (Apr 25, 2005)

Hi Jameson,

Nice trip on the Crystal!! 

I just got back from Idaho last night (excellent boating trip!!) and it looks like things here are rapidly dropping. Rock Report says 3.25, which is a good level for the middle narrows, too high for upper narrows (at least for me ...) and probably good for Spencer and maybe Joe Wright. Lower than optimal for the usual runs (Mish, Bridges, etc). I've got to get a boat from Vail and we thought we might go to the Ark this weekend but we could likely do that later. Best to ring me at nine-7-O 58one 7nine-eight-three and sort out schedules. It would be fun to show you around. If you're driving all the way out here, you ought to catch a couple other runs - I'd put Bailey and Lawson high on the list (for different reasons).


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