# John Day River - change to 2022 permitting system



## 2tomcat2 (May 27, 2012)

Thanks for posting
There is certainly a need to change the system


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## dr.erinabernethy (May 14, 2021)

I agree that a change is needed. Unfortunately, the change in the system (essentially having more release dates) will not alleviate the two issues I see with this style of permitting, increasing the time burden on the public and it being inequitable.

1) The new system increases the amount of time and emotional stress that I (and everyone else) will have to devote to getting a permit.
Instead of two days, I will now be trying for as many days as it takes to get a permit.
I'm already dreading February and April (4 months and 1 month out from a May launch date) and the number of mornings that I'll be trying to get a permit. I'm not sure how many hours over those 2 months I will have to devote to this. 3? 5? 10 hours?
That is an unnecessary burden on the public, for whom we should be making access to this public resource easier, not more difficult.
We limit the number of people to protect the resource, but we should not make getting a permit only accessible to those with the available time to devote to getting a permit.

2) This permitting system replicates the inequities of the original permitting system.
I will describe how it is inequitable for folks with disabilities and slow internet connections, who are disproportionately communities of color, rural, and poor.
With the new system, you must still have nimble fingers (and be otherwise quick on a computer) to snag a permit.
There are many people with disabilities (e.g., visual impairments, reduced finger dexterity) that make quick navigation of a webpage difficult to impossible.
This change to the permit system places the same barriers in front of folks with this difficulty, as you still have to make quick cursor clicks to get a permit.
Plus, you must have a fast internet connection. Covid has reminded us that many people, especially communities of color and rural and poor communities, do not have this resource. 
I believe that the BLM is in favor of making its online systems as accessible as possible, which in this case will also directly increase the diversity of users in the natural areas that it manages.

Having a lottery style permit system, like what is used for Desolation Canyon on the Green River through Recreation.gov, alleviates the time burden and the inequities that I mentioned above.
People can take the time they need to navigate the online system, putting in for the dates that they would like to boat.
There is minimal stress, minimal time commitment, and it allows people with disabilities and/or slow internet to move at a speed that works for them.
Additionally, unlike the Desolation Canyon system, I would suggest a point system, similar to that used by the Oregon Department of Fish and Game (e.g. bear tags for hunting).
If you are unable to get a permit this year, you get a point that increases your chances of getting a permit next year.
If multiple people in a party are drawn and choose to decline a permit, that permit should go to the next lottery winner.
The current system has a declined permit become available whenever the former permit holder declines it, which only benefits people who have the time to constantly monitor the Recreation.gov webpage. 

[that is a relevant excerpt from my comment submitted to the BLM]


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## cnalder (Jul 7, 2016)

So my question is, if you had a segment 3 permit were you able to float into and potentially thru segment 2 without a segment 2 permit? If so that’s where it’s all gone wrong. Sounds like they should limit the permit to the segment the permit is for. If you want to do a longer trip than you need both permits. Just like doing a middle main trip during the lottery period.


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## Nanko (Oct 20, 2020)

cnalder said:


> So my question is, if you had a segment 3 permit were you able to float into and potentially thru segment 2 without a segment 2 permit? If so that’s where it’s all gone wrong.


Yeah, this is what happened. I don’t know if it was allowed or ignorance - willful or otherwise - by the public though. The long distance boater permit is a great solution. It’s style-cramping to have to meet a series of precise launch dates whereas the Middle/Main it’s just 1.



dr.erinabernethy said:


> 2) This permitting system replicates the inequities of the original permitting system.
> I will describe how it is inequitable for folks with disabilities and slow internet connections, who are disproportionately communities of color, rural, and poor.
> With the new system, you must still have nimble fingers (and be otherwise quick on a computer) to snag a permit.
> There are many people with disabilities (e.g., visual impairments, reduced finger dexterity) that make quick navigation of a webpage difficult to impossible.
> ...


100% correct, I’m surprised I don’t hear this more. I hope the BLM doesn’t listen to this part for selfish reasons though. My trigger finger and connection are dialed. Bots such as are used for popular wreck.gov campgrounds (and never for river permits - right!?) add strength to your privilege argument here.


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