# Oar locks



## Cascade River Gear (Aug 12, 2014)

Dianne P, is that you my friend? What are you looking to achieve with a different set up? ~ Renee


----------



## Learch (Jul 12, 2010)

I'd keep the locks and upgrade the sticks


----------



## Dianne (Oct 7, 2015)

Yes Renee, it's Dianne p...I'm hoping to never have my oars pop out of my oar locks in the middle of Staircase ever again! 

I would like lighter/more comfortable oars as well-hoping to find some help in getting my cockpit dialed in a bit more securely so I can up my adventure level...


----------



## idaho_h2o (May 5, 2005)

Cataract SGG shafts and Magnum blades for oars FTW.

For locks you should decide if you want to be able to feather your oars. If so, then you would be looking at either the posilockers or pro locks. I love posilockers. You also have the option of using an oar rite (wrong...) if you like. Haven't used the pro locks but they look like they would provide similar range of motion. Not sure how adjustable they are in terms of retention but if you often find your oars out of your hands a lot they may be a good option. Be aware that the posilockers will not release, so if you can't take care of your oars you will end up breaking shafts.

If you're just looking to not have your oars pop out of locks you might find that some tuning of the horns and really concentrating on oar control help significantly.


----------



## mattman (Jan 30, 2015)

I would also recommend taking a look at oar set up if you tend to have oars pop out.

If your handles are further apart, that can certainly make problems, since as you push forward, the handles get even further apart, and natural muscle tension, especially if it is a major rapid, will tend to pull the handles in, popping them out of the oar locks.

I have my oar shafts set up with just an inch or two between the handles max.
On Oar locks, my preference is pins and clips, partly because they are very secure in bigger water. There are downsides, not something you will ever be able to feather with,
and if you put a blade into the river at the wrong time, it will tend to yank you out of your seat. In general, I would say clips are easier on your wrists then feathering, but more risky for the shoulders, generally more suited to bigger water than technical rivers, though I use them everywhere.


----------



## ob1coby (Jul 25, 2013)

A lot of world-class boaters Run With Cobras. Many of them will tell you that cobras are the best. I would second the notion that they need to be tuned if your oars are popping out of them too easily but I wouldn't think less of the cobras.


----------



## ob1coby (Jul 25, 2013)

Out of the ones you mentioned the only ones I have used are cobras but I admit I've been interested in trying pins and clips. They are out of style and no longer trendy so I think people don't look at them as seriously as they should but I really like the idea of them. Especially the fact that the oars stay in place during a flip.


----------



## ob1coby (Jul 25, 2013)

BTW, which staircase are you talking about, lochsa or Payette or ???

Are you interested in opinions about oars or just locks?


----------



## Electric-Mayhem (Jan 19, 2004)

ob1coby said:


> Out of the ones you mentioned the only ones I have used are cobras but I admit I've been interested in trying pins and clips. They are out of style and no longer trendy so I think people don't look at them as seriously as they should but I really like the idea of them. Especially the fact that the oars stay in place during a flip.


That can be a good thing and a bad thing. We had a near flip on an eddy line on my last Grand Trip that bent an oar because the pins and clips held it in as the boat went up on its side. If it was a fiberglass one it probably would have cracked the oar.

I have a Grand trip at the end of this month and I'm definitely switching to Oarlocks from the Pins and Clips I've been using. They are great for knowing 100% where your oar is, but they are more complex to and have more points of failure, if you do have one pop its a lot harder to get back on the pin, and you can't ship your oars easily.

I like being able to feather when I want, so I got a set of the convertible oar rights. Flip them one way when you want to feather, flip them the other when you want the security of knowing where 90 degrees to the water is.

I considered the Pro-Locks, but there are compromises I didn't really want to make. I've thought about making something similar myself since I have the tools, but haven't gotten down to putting pencil to paper to design it or tools to material to make it yet.


----------



## ob1coby (Jul 25, 2013)

Yeah I understand, and Diane, if you do a site search on pins and clips or Pro locks or other types of oar accessories you will find a plethora of information and opinions. Some very heated. But in this case it looks like Diane was talking about a lightweight play boat application. 

there are risks of bending breaking or misplacing oars no matter what system you use but I've heard quite a few boaters say that pins and clips are still their favorite system for fast tight technical White Water play boating.

I can't confirm it but I'm really interested in trying them.

I do see your point though that they don't seem as attractive for a fully loaded Grand Canyon rig.


----------



## Electric-Mayhem (Jan 19, 2004)

I wasn't saying its not worth considering Pins and Clips, just giving a few downsides to them.

The closest I've done to "tight and technical creeking" in a raft was the Slickrock to Bedrock section of the Delores. Easy run, but had some very tight spots. I will say it would have been awfully nice to be able to quickly ship my oars in a few spots, which is definitely not something Pins and Clips excel at. 

Pins and Clips definitely have some benefits though. Less likely to pop an oar. Since they are more securely anchored in place you can brace off of them much better then oarlocks. If forced to, you could probably find the parts to fix Pins and Clips at your local hardware store which is not the case for Oarlocks.

I've had both, and I know for my small boat I instantly went with Oarlocks and didn't consider Pins and Clips. It certainly is personal preference though, and either kind of setup will do the job. It just comes down to what set of tradeoffs you want to deal with.


----------



## garystrome (Jan 6, 2007)

*Popping and oar out of the lock*

The newer bronze locks will not allow the oar shaft to pop out. Some of the older locks were tapered to conserve material and that tapering allowed the deflection necessary to pop the oar. There are also oriental cobra locks on the market which are a soft brass alloy. These are junk and make sure you get the good ones from Sawyer.

If you want to look like a pro, I suggest pins and duct tape. A 5/8" shaft with a ball fitting on end (no impalement hazard) with multiple wraps of duct tape makes a mighty fine oar retainer system. The duct tape allows feathering, oar retention and a certain old school appeal... not to mention conversations about the uniqueness of the application. 

Since the application implies a poor boatman (or boatwoman), one should get offered more free beer, cocktails and other implements of comradery.


----------



## spencerhenry (Jun 21, 2004)

Tight Technical water?

I ran 13 runs down Slaughterhouse last summer, one run from Woody Creek to Basalt, Westwater 3 times (not tight and technical), Numbers several times (at over 2000cfs), Bogan Canyon, Dowd Chutes, and Gore Canyon. 
I run cataract sgg's with magnum blades and NRS oar locks. I broke one oarlock in Numbers (due to R&D on a new frame design). I never once had an oar pop out of the lock, not even when I flipped in toilet bowl in Gore. In fact in 15 years of cat boating I have never had an oar pop out of the lock. I have had them punch me in the jaw, or chest, had them shoved up to the blade and then come out but never pop up out of the lock.
I ran oar rights for many years, but when I got serious about technical unforgiving water I switched to rope wrap with stops only. I think I have missed more oar strokes with partially shipped oars and oar rights than i ever have with rope and stops.


----------



## elkhaven (Sep 11, 2013)

I'd say this is likely a tuning issue. Try to get the horns narrower so they hold the shafts. As mentioned below the plastic sleeves don't give you as long of a surface as rope wraps do, so it's even more critical. You can tune cobra's with approiately sized pipe, or rocks. In my experience, brand new cobra's are really opened up for sawyers bigger shaft. They usually need to be narrowed down for the smaller shaft diameter.

As for oars, I'm always a proponent of nicer oars. It's your connection to the water and all the work you do is transfered through them. You won't be unhappy with the results of better oars. The cost can suck sometimes but the performance rarely does. I really like dynalite blades on what ever shaft you decide. I really like the flex and durability of the blade and they are the lightest out there... though I haven't really looked into cataracts version. You won't be unhappy upgrading oars. The lock system is more difficult these days; there are just so many options. I'm sure you have friends that have opinions on those as well (I think I know you too, Fire Bunny?). Assuming I'm right I'm sure someone will let you try some other set ups. I personally like tried and true open locks and rope wrap. I'd seriously consider proloks if I were starting from scratch but I have too many wrapped oars to get serious about that yet (I'd have to cut off all the rope wrap).

Good Luck!
Brian


----------



## Livenswell (Sep 19, 2016)

*Sounds like a tuning issue*

I also run the cobra scull oar locks and had some issues with them at first with oar shafts (counter-balanced cataract SGG and SGX) popping out in bigger water. I was shooting the bull with a crusty ol river rat and he told me the key to the cobras keeping your oars locked in place was to tune them.... by bending in the horns by beating them inward with a couple of rocks! 

Yep, thats right, pull a couple of nice heavy and smooth fist-sized river cobbles out of the rio and take one in each hand. Hold/brace one rock as an anvil against the outer horn of the lock, then carefully-squarely smack the other horn with the rock in your other hand thereby reducing the gap between the two horns to a width that will not pass the oar shaft. I was slightly aghast at the idea of taking a rock to my brass but I let him show me on my brand new oar locks and by-golly that did the trick. Come to find out, this is the suggested tuning method (beating on them with rocks) recommended by Sawyer!

It may take a smack or three and some testing to make sure that you make the gap perfectly sized and don't over do it. To get them in and out of the locks you have to thread them through each lock handle side first or drop them in at the skinny point where the shaft meets the blade. 
.02


----------



## ob1coby (Jul 25, 2013)

I've had to do it that way but I don't recommend it if you can help it. Beating them with rocks is pretty hard on them. I'll bet most rafting shops can tune them up like this. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7dPfFmUxMw


----------



## Livenswell (Sep 19, 2016)

*Field vs. Shop Oarlock Tuning Methods*

True that! definitely a way or two to do it afield on the river and a way to do it at the shop. I reckon I shouldve clarified we were not indoors, didnt have a vise or other leveraging advantage device. 

Below is the link to info from Sawyer, which includes a link to the YouTube indoor method you describe but also provides some additional info and drawings explaining the rock and hard place methods, very good info. 

Incidentally, regarding the damage.. I noticed very little marking and/or abrasion on them after the rock treatment on the side of the river and when I mentioned my initial concern of taking a rock and scuffing up my new shiny brass oarlocks to Mr. River Rat - he looked up at me sorta cross eyed and said "its what gives them character" then he belly laughed so hard he nearly fell into the river... he was pretty hammered but gave good advice at the time as that ended the business of popping oars at the most un-opportune time for me.

Heres that link to Sawyer's advice:

OARLOCK TUNING GUIDE


----------



## SpeyCatr (Aug 14, 2013)

I've used a bench vise with great success to tune Cobras. With an oar shaft in the oar lock (while in the vice) being very slow with the adjustment it really lets you dial in the optimal placement (assuming your Cobras need to be tightened). If you go too far for some reason clamp the oar lock shaft in the bench vise and use a wedge or similar with a hammer to open them up a bit. 


Sent from my iPhone using Mountain Buzz


----------



## Dianne (Oct 7, 2015)

Ha ha! Yes, it is firebunny!

Thank you all for The insightful comments!

I have Never tuned those cobras, And i definitly want new oars, so Maybe That is step one.

Still, there has to Be a reason all those bad ass play boaters use some type of locking system...


----------



## elkhaven (Sep 11, 2013)

Howdy,

Hope you're having a good winter!

There are reasons that I've heard for many top playboaters to run fixed locks... I'm not into that so I don't feel qualified to list all the reasons, but it's been my understanding the main reason is so that the oars are always ready. They're always in the right position (i.e. width at the hands) and the blades are always perpendicular to the water (ready to row). That way if dropped nothing is lost once picked back up again. Maybe one of those folks will chime in with a more nuanced response but that's the gist I've gotten.

I want different things out of locks so to be totally locked down or even in pins and clips is not for me. Feathering and shipping oars, finesse is my goal. 

See if you can borrow Spider's proloks for a trip this spring. To me they would be the best of all worlds. Also, you've got to know someone with pins and clips - they're everywhere once you start looking. Borrow and try, it's a pretty easy changeover with the oars you have, just to see if you like the idea of being more locked in. I used to have a pair that some one gave me - I think I gave them away, but I'll look and see if they're still in my garage somewhere...(long shot).

Later D,

Brian


----------



## SpeyCatr (Aug 14, 2013)

I've heard of pro locks but does anyone have a picture of posi lockers?


Sent from my iPhone using Mountain Buzz


----------



## ob1coby (Jul 25, 2013)

SpeyCatr said:


> I've heard of pro locks but does anyone have a picture of posi lockers?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Mountain Buzz


I've got em on my truck but I'm not about to crawl under it to take some pics ;-)


----------



## jamesthomas (Sep 12, 2010)

Gumbydammit has a set of posilockers. Hey gumby post up a pic of those bad boys.


----------



## jamesthomas (Sep 12, 2010)

Check these out. They are sized to work with rope wrap, sleeves, oar rites or donuts.


----------



## markhusbands (Aug 17, 2015)

same technology used to keep beers upright on sailboats. and that you must respect.


----------



## mattman (Jan 30, 2015)

jamesthomas said:


> Check these out. They are sized to work with rope wrap, sleeves, oar rites or donuts.


MMMM.... Dohhhnuttt's..... Arrrhhhggrrrggghhhhlll......


----------



## Electric-Mayhem (Jan 19, 2004)

jamesthomas said:


> Check these out. They are sized to work with rope wrap, sleeves, oar rites or donuts.


Looks very similar to the proloks. Not saying which one came first, but it looks like a good idea.

One thing I really like about oar locks is they don't require a lot of hardware and are dead simple. No worrying about nuts coming loose or getting lost.

I like the look of the Prolok and the ones JT posted, but they certainly have more hardware and such to worry about. Same with Pins and Clips. Its one of the main reasons I'm switching from Pins to Oarlocks (plus I like to feather).

Definitely lots of good ideas and ways to go in this thread though.


----------



## Riverman4utoday (Jun 21, 2013)

Dianne, lots of great advice on this post! This is Aaron with Sawyer. If you are needing help with tuning your oarlocks, please PM with your phone # and I can walk you through the process so that they are done correctly. If you are wishing to discuss which oars/blades would be a great fit for what you do....or want to do, more than happy to discuss that with you also. 

Cheers~
Aaron/Sawyer Paddles & Oars
970-208-4643


----------



## curtis catman (Sep 29, 2015)

Dianne said:


> Ha ha! Yes, it is firebunny!
> 
> Thank you all for The insightful comments!
> 
> ...


The reason they all use some kind of locking system is simple. This past year I rowed a drift boat down the Upper Gauley. This was the first time it had ever been done. A guy rowed a small dory down it 20 years ago. Any ways to get to the story. I used locks and rights. I do not drill the oar and put the screw through the oar shaft. I actually run the locks lose enough to turn with some force. The reason bad ass play boaters use some type of locking system is because there will be a time when you will not have time to make sure your oar blade is in verticle position and you have to make the stroke. The last thing you need is the current twisting your oar and missing the move you desperately needed to make. 

The reason I run my locks a little loose is because no matter how tight you make them, when you mess up and stick a blade somewhere it does not belong, the lock will turn and you will be stuck with an oar that is useless until you can stop and get out your screw driver and fix it. If you run them lose enough to turn back with some force then you can fix them on the fly. Just my method. 

So, when fishing up to class three I open oar row. When play cating class 5 I run locks and rights. Pins and clips are probably better for this application. I just don't have pins and clips any more. They are handy when you start out running Class 5. Some boaters keep on there play boats some don't. They are nice when you flip over because 9 times out of 10 when you reflip your cat between rapids the oars are right where they should be. With oar locks and rights almost always 1 or both oars are out and the tether has them. Always run a tether. It can just be a short piece of rope. Don't run a long tether. Two reasons. 1 It becomes an entrapment hazard. 2 the longer it is the more chance that when your boat is upside down dragging a lose oar, the oar can become wedged between two rocks and will break the oar or tether or will hang up the sport cat somewhere you can not get to it without trouble.

I run cats on small technical class 4 5. And i run them on big water class 4 5. Not bragging just letting you know I have some experience.

P.S. And I know I am going to hell for running locks on a drift boat from all these fishermen on here but, I don't run them when fishing just when doing incredible dumb stuff in my drift boat.


----------

