# Smaller overnight dory: McKenzie, baby Briggs, or...



## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

Eddyline Chub 13'-9"


http://www.eddylinewelding.com/blog-eddyline-meanderings/2018/11/6/our-aluminum-chub-hatchery




http://www.eddylinewelding.com/blog-eddyline-meanderings/2019/3/28/finishing-details-of-the-first-chub











Traditional McKenzie:









Dimock's Doryak:








Product testing


We loaded up a stack of boats in the rain and headed up to Utah for recess. We also wanted to see what Peekaboo would do. We headed do...




fretwaterlines.blogspot.com













Here's Derald Stewart's Ashkii, owned by a fellow forum member:










I think I want something in between the Chub and the Doryak. 1 person + gear, or 2 people for a day run.
Would still go for a 1/2" bomber floor with plenty of reinforcement, but sides/decks might be 1/4" cedarstrip + glass for weight savings. Lower sides at the chines could be doug fir or mahogany for impact resistance. Goal is ~200#

I don't love the McKenzie's more vertical sides, I do love the Briggs/Rogue flare.
Not worried about a wide floor, would go as narrow as ~44" if I'm carrying plenty of width at the gunnels.

What do you have, what do you love, what do you think?


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## Electric-Mayhem (Jan 19, 2004)

I think the Ashkii is too big for what you are wanting. Maybe that other Mckenzie you posted too. 

As I said on Facebook.... I almost bought the Chub last year, but couldn't come together with Mike on a price that worked for both of us. Part of me regrets not just going with it...but at the end of the day I was WAY over budget and couldn't go any bigger. It does look like a really cool "little" boat. As far as I could tell its basically the same width as a lot of Briggs boats but shortened to 14'. It seems like a very versatile boat that could handle big water and more technical low water duty. I know Mike took it down Cataract in the high 20ks with pretty good success....so it can definitely handle big water despite its relatively small size to most Dories on the market. That said...I think its a bit big for the "single guy and gear" use on small stuff though. I think Mike, with the help of Andy and Brad, designed it as a "3 person boat"... so bigger then you are looking for.

The second I saw the Doryaks that Brad Dimock and his crew made I wanted one. They look super fun and also more capable then one would imagine. I like the Spooky better size wise then the Peekaboo, but I'd be happy to row either one. Looks like it would be a hoot and would make runs that you had grown bored with fun again. I think if I was gonna build a Dory...it would be something very similar to this. From the pictures, it seems to be about 8' long and maybe 4' feet wide. In the design parameters, they said they wanted to do away with scarfing...so wanted to be able to do the sides with a 4'x12' piece of plywood and the floor with a 4'x8'. 

I think I agree with you going with something between the Chub and the Doryak. I know Andy, Mike,and Brad were planning something that was a "Goldilocks" boat...but it wasn't clear if that was the Chub...something bigger....or something smaller. Either way...I look forward to seeing what you come up with. Definitely wish we lived closer since I'd love to come help build a pair of them.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

Electric-Mayhem said:


> I think the Ashkii is too big for what you are wanting. Maybe that other Mckenzie you posted too.
> 
> As I said on Facebook.... I almost bought the Chub last year,.... That said...I think its a bit big for the "single guy and gear" use on small stuff though. I think Mike, with the help of Andy and Brad, designed it as a "3 person boat"... so bigger then you are looking for.


Yeah, full width is going to kill me from a weight perspective. I'm thinking max 72". If I scaled down the width 90%, that would give me the 43-44" floor.



Electric-Mayhem said:


> The second I saw the Doryaks that Brad Dimock and his crew made I wanted one. They look super fun and also more capable then one would imagine. I like the Spooky better size wise then the Peekaboo, but I'd be happy to row either one. Looks like it would be a hoot and would make runs that you had grown bored with fun again. I think if I was gonna build a Dory...it would be something very similar to this. From the pictures, it seems to be about 8' long and maybe 4' feet wide. In the design parameters, they said they wanted to do away with scarfing...so wanted to be able to do the sides with a 4'x12' piece of plywood and the floor with a 4'x8'.


He also said 1/2 the length, but that looks like more than an 8.5' boat. 9'? 10'? 
3/4 width is ~60" which is not abnormal for a boat of its size.
2/3 height or ~14" seems LOW!!



Electric-Mayhem said:


> Looks like it would be a hoot and would make runs that you had grown bored with fun again.


Now you're scaring me. If what you said rings true and I build too large of boat it will haunt me! hahaa

this is my buddy Blake Miller's micro dory the Lil' Bastard:








He runs it on Class III but hasn't yet taken it on the Lochsa. He does regularly run the Lochsa in a Mini Me.



> I think I agree with you going with something between the Chub and the Doryak. I know Andy, Mike,and Brad were planning something that was a "Goldilocks" boat...but it wasn't clear if that was the Chub...something bigger....or something smaller. Either way...I look forward to seeing what you come up with. Definitely wish we lived closer since I'd love to come help build a pair of them.


Jon/duct tape said he's sketching a smaller boat, too. Would be fun to collaborate.


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## Electric-Mayhem (Jan 19, 2004)

I haven't had the pleasure of running the Lochsa yet...definitely on the short list. That said, I think it would be super fun but white knuckled to run it in a small Dory. I think the main scary part would be if you flipped and having to get it back upright before it got pushed somewhere you wouldn't want it to.

I had a Mini-Max for a few years but sold it earlier this year. It definitely made thigns more interesting and I had a ton of fun...but ended up getting a Cataraft last year that reduced the drama when I was pushing the limits of my comfort level. I've been kayaking more this year...which has brought some challenge and enjoyment back to the easier runs. Used to be a class -V boater (really a comfortable Class IV boater that did a few class V runs) but moved to mostly rafting over the last few years....so its been fun to get into small craft again.

I guess that is all my way of saying that its a fine line between what makes easy runs more fun and how the boat performs when you are pushing limits... like taking a tiny Dory down high water Lochsa. Personally... I think it sounds awesome... but there will be some obvious risk of damage.

I sort of want to make a ultra durable dory using those Rock Crawler techniques we both have experience with. It won't adhere to the "lightweight" thing you are going for....but I think it would be really neat to make a frame using round aluminum tubing and roll cage building techniques...and then skin it with either composites or aluminum sheet and then do a UHMW floor and chines. The goal beeing to be able to take some rock hits and not have to worry too much...but still take a hard boat.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

I freakin' love the Lochsa. It's my jam. I never was a Class V boater, either. The Upper Lochsa is a semi-technical IV+ with a couple of V- rapids at higher water. 

Pic from Marsha Mike Garoutte on the WW dories forum of a full size dory in Lochsa Falls at 6':


















A small dory in the Lochsa is going to be a white-knuckle experience for me, too...and I've run it 70 times. Definitely a risk of damage giving the white knuckles!
So it would be tiny dory at moderate-water Lochsa..with big water being too fast and pushy, and low water being too bony. Somewhere between 8k and 14k CFS.

Rather than trying to make an indestructible boat, I'll go for a burly floor, lightweight everywhere else, and plan to have a maneuverable enough boat to avoid the big hits.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

Can't eat just one.

I adopted Blake's Lil' Bastard. Crazy fun. But only for one person








So I've started working on another just to share the love:

Bottom one (v1.0) was too plumb in the stern and too raked in the stem.
Next 3 are all the same pattern.
Small 1/2"=1' paper one has a good shape, 1"-1' paper pattern was closer. Raised the stern slightly. Mocked it up in tagboard and can see how important spreaders are to get that full "Briggs" curve.









I'll do one 1:6 scale and then make the hull out of plywood.
Should finish out at 10'-6" LOA, 36" floor, 60" beam.
I can fit the sides on two sheets of plywood (one ripped in half lengthwise, the bow section cut in half through the width). Floor fits on a single sheet (~36"w x 96" long)

Will probably start with $30/sheet 1/4" AC ply from Home Depot. $100 will tell me if I like the hull shape.


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