# Anyone run a 14 footer on the Grand?



## Badazws6 (Mar 4, 2007)

I ran a 14 in the winter a couple years back. Perfectly doable, just have a smaller margin of error. I dumped it once in Granite but the nice bit is that it only took 3 guys to flip it back upright. The other things you have to think about is load capacity and what that does to you in the wind if you have to load vertically. When I do it again I will be taking my own boat no matter what size it is at the time.


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## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

I took a 12.5' cat down last year. Take the FUN line!!!!


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## yak1 (Jan 28, 2006)

I had a trip with 2 Avon Adventures 12' only one fliped in the bottom of the 20's on some wierd wave.


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## Ture (Apr 12, 2004)

I took my 14' 6" Sotar down in July 2011. Flows were above average and I was taking aggressive lines, trying to hit everything in sight that wasnt too insane. 

Our only problem was funny water. My tubes felt small... They got completely sucked under once in a while by the funny water, which was pretty strong that year. It knocked me and my wife out of the boat on the runout of one of the small ones in the gems section when the entire starboard tube got sucked under deep in some flat water. Wife popped up and then got sucked down deep for the count... Pretty scary, I think swims are serious just about anywhere in that canyon.

I loved the small raft. I'm a kayaker so I lean towards a rock and roll ride versus a barge. Got vertical a few times and didn't end up flipping. Hit the meat nicely on Granite and it felt pretty crazy. Specter was good that year. I had my wife go in another boat and put rocks into the front drop bag for weight, nailed the meat of the meat and was looking at the sky.

By the time we got to Lava I was adding rocks to my load to replace the missing beer and I filled my jugs w/ river water at the top. We watched a commercial paddle boat go into the middle of the hole and it was a shit show. The line down the left was wild but easy to make. The 14 ft was easy to maneuver and fun but at the mercy of the funny water once in a while.


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## scannon (May 2, 2006)

I've done the Canyon in a 14' twice. First time I was in a Hyside, second time a RMR. Both trips were all outfitted entirely with 14' or smaller boats.

Flipped three times total. Once in Crystal, twice in Upset. No major damage, but I'd rather not flip in Upset in the winter ever again. None of the flips were due to the boat; all of them were caused by me F-ing up my line. 

I think the main issue is that rigging a smaller boat for a big trip takes a little more thought, but once you get it dialed, it's fine.


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## raftus (Jul 20, 2005)

I ran my 14'3" Hyside down in November of '08. It was fun. Ran some smaller lines and some more technical lines. Flipped once in Horn - cleared the meat, but then decided to row back into the fun - poor angle and low momentum equaled a flip off a 10-12' wave. I would do it again for sure. But if you're group wants to go fully outfitted - it is smooth to not bring your own boat.


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## Rez072 (Apr 21, 2008)

You should consider downsizing to a 9' raft. Hyside makes some nice ones:

"Mini-Me" goes Large in Lava Falls Ledge Hole: Colorado River of the Grand Canyon - YouTube

Lava Falls June 8, '09 - YouTube

Hortemiller trip Mini Me Lava Falls - YouTube


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## whip (Oct 23, 2003)

Run 4 times in 14' Hyside SB.I run the tubes a little soft. Remember you're not gonna drive all the way there to row around the rapids. Follow the the tounge. If you see something big keeper straight and push hard. You might want to pick up Lind lou Lindemans guide book.


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## Leland (Jan 25, 2004)

I rowed my Otter 142 (narrower than your boat) down on a winter trip back in 2005. There were also two other 14 footers on my trip, one DIB and one Maravia. I thought the larger tubes on the Otter made it perform better than the other 14'ers on the trip. I had no problems whatsoever, and found that the Otter actually carries as much stuff as many 16' boats do.

Our flows maxed out at 10-12k on that trip, and I actually found myself wishing there was more water despite the small boat.


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## richp (Feb 27, 2005)

Hi,

The quick answer is that it's done fairly regularly.

DavidL (who posts here from time to time but must be off doing something more fun than scanning the Buzz) runs a fourteen footer on the Grand, and does quite well. A few years back, I did a three boat trip with two guys rowing fourteens, and they did fine.

I row bigger boats for the most part, and I admire the skill that people bring to the task when they successfully run the Grand in smaller craft.

FWIW.

Rich Phillips


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## John the welder (May 2, 2009)

2008 High water event I rowed a mini-me down the grand. We had two thirteen foot otters and a 16 foot Hyside. One of the thirteen foot had a perfict run. Take the 14 and have some fun. Lava is the only one to worry about but s can happen any where.


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## wamsley (Feb 28, 2011)

Took a 14' 6" STAR and a 14' SATURN down the grand. Both never flipped, great trip.


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## crispy (May 20, 2004)

did one trip in a big tube 14 hyside, light load and only an occasional passenger. fast & manuverabe boat made for a very fun trip. ran the meat on everything at 10k level and never had a hitch except for catching a surge in one hole and getting stopped pretty good at house rock

on another trip at 12k level, shared rowing duty on a heavily loaded 18 footer with 1 or 2 passengers. felt like a barge and left me wishing i was back in the 14


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## pitty (May 3, 2011)

did it last april in a 14 foot nrs. really fun and never flipped. i felt like i had way more maneuverability than the bigger boats on the trip.


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## eddy hopper (Sep 17, 2007)

I've taken my 14' Avon Adventurer down three times and really like the way it rigs up and handles on the river. I have flipped it on all three trips but mostly from being stupid or just going big!


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## ccoats (Sep 30, 2006)

I love posting on the buuz. thanks for all the great testimonies!


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## ccoats (Sep 30, 2006)

rig to flip, dress to swim!!


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## markb (Jul 16, 2008)

Rez072 said:


> You should consider downsizing to a 9' raft. Hyside makes some nice ones:


Watching those vids and others, I think most people don't realize how easy Lava can be if you backferry in as close as you can to the last big rock on the top right. You fight the boil a little, then it's a straight shot to hit the v-wave center with a touch of left angle, so you're kicked out to the middle and hit the bottom waves straight and charging. Otherwise first you're scrambling right to avoid ledge hole, hitting v sideways, and then struggling to get back middle.

The boil/pillow at the top's stronger than people think.

No room for anything off--perpendicular in a small boat.


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## Andy H. (Oct 13, 2003)

I ran my 14' VG and had a blast. If you don't want to go big, you can run the sneak lines around the bus-eating holes on the big rapids and then all the other rapids that no one talks about are a real kick - the Jewels, the Roaring 20s, etc. If your crew doesn't need you to row a gear pig then it's the best way, IMHO.

Also, I'm not sure but I think David L may actually be running a 13' Hyside on his yearly GC trips.

[EDIT] Oh yeah - you'll be getting wet a lot more than the other folks on the big boats. You probably don't need to hear this but rig to flip, dress to swim, every single day. 

Have fun!

-AH


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## peakone (Apr 5, 2008)

All else equal...
If you're a crappy boater then take at least a 14' raft.
If you're a good boater then take at most a 14' raft.


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## Doubledown (Sep 23, 2008)

peakone said:


> All else equal...
> If you're a crappy boater then take at least a 14' raft.
> If you're a good boater then take at most a 14' raft.


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## David L (Feb 13, 2004)

Well, I'll comment about this, especially since my name was mentioned twice.

I've run my 14 foot Hyside down there almost every year for the past 15 years or so. When I didn't it was because I used to run a 13-1/2 foot Riken for a couple of years, or I joined a trip that rented all the gear and I ran a 16 footer. Each time I wished I could have my 14'er instead! By the way, with my Riken people said that I looked like a bobbing cork in some waves.

To me, the 14 foot boat is no problem to row down there and it makes me feel more like I'm rowing a boat than if I had a larger boat. I can "feel" the river currents more and I have to read and run rapids with more care, sometimes with maneuvering, because the boat is more susceptible to large, rogue waves. But, it's much more enjoyable to me than a large barge simply pointed downriver and kept straight. It does take more analness to rig a fair share of the gear.

I remember a couple of trips I joined, in one case to get a group of Alaskans downriver and see the good hikes and such, but only if I got to row a 16 foot rental, not an 18 footer the rest of them had. That's just personal preference, not a comment on the usefulness of an 18 foot gear boat.

Anyway, I can still row into large waves and get a big ride (Sapphire!) because there is so much momentum in that river to push the boat's ass up and over the wave. The main thing is to watch out for a stopper wave/hole and a rogue wave coming from the side. (That's how I flipped in Indian Dick, going for a dance with that fuckin' right side lateral devil wave).

Bottom line, don't worry about rowing a 14 footer down there. It's great fun.


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## brandob9 (Jun 13, 2010)

I hate to say the obvious, but it's just a continuum between dancing ability and punching ability. Plenty of people have run one down there, and often their stories are a little more fun than everyone else's!


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## ptwood (May 4, 2004)

peakone said:


> All else equal...
> If you're a crappy boater then take at least a 14' raft.
> If you're a good boater then take at most a 14' raft.


 just make sure you don't ask the guy with a big boat for a beer when you run out....


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## DocDC (Aug 18, 2010)

I ran a 14 Hyside and had a blast doing it. I wouldn't want it any other way unless I had a passenger that must not flip. 18,000 cfs and an awesome ride.


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## liquidphoto (Oct 22, 2010)

brandob9 said:


> I hate to say the obvious, but it's just a continuum between dancing ability and punching ability. Plenty of people have run one down there, and often their stories are a little more fun than everyone else's!


Like when you get a 20'er stuck high and dry on night 1 camp!! What's up Broth'a!


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## cataraftgirl (Jun 5, 2009)

While we're on the subject of smaller boats on the GC, what about a 14 ft. Cat? I know the gear carrying capacity isn't there, but what about the ability to punch holes and ride the big water?
Laura are you out there???? Give me some feedback river sister


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## Avatard (Apr 29, 2011)

cataraftgirl said:


> While we're on the subject of smaller boats on the GC, what about a 14 ft. Cat? I know the gear carrying capacity isn't there, but what about the ability to punch holes and ride the big water?
> Laura are you out there???? Give me some feedback river sister


... Key superhero theme song ...


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## cataraftgirl (Jun 5, 2009)

Avatard said:


> ... Key superhero theme song ...


Any river sister who rows a 12 ft Legend down the Grand deserves some superhero music in my book. 
But seriously.....how do cats stack up on the Grand vs rafts of the same size?


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## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

I think the grand is one place cats shine. Any big water brings out their benefits, slicing through the waves instead of getting tossed so much like a round boat does. But I don't have gear in front of me (except drybags on the front tubes) and I'm not using a floor. Even with stuff up there I believe the pointy cat tubes make you slice through vs a round raft bow. Take a cat!

A girlfriend on my last trip had a 14' maravia and rocked it. She had a floor and a cooler up front. She's been down the grand twice but is pretty conservative. That is, until she inadvertently took the "fun line" through Hance. She ran the hole at the bottom, and "front sided" hard and did great.

You guys are funny, some think of it more as "knucklehead"!


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## cataraftgirl (Jun 5, 2009)

Thanks Laura. Maybe someday my 14 ft. Maravia cat (aka "Jewel of the Nile") and I will make a trip down the Grand. Sounds like fun in a small boat....cat or raft.
KJ


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## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

Another girlfriend took an 11' Legend last year. She sure had fun!


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