# The Ark... wtf?



## storm11 (Feb 10, 2006)

So all of you in the know, what the f is up with the ark? Looked like it was climbing this morning and now dropping out again. I know you guys blew through a lot of your water early on, just like the Animas did, but is this it? Are they gonna bump it back up for weekends or is it just done?


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## gh (Oct 13, 2003)

It rained quite a bit. Thats the only bump you will see until next May.


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## lmaciag (Oct 10, 2003)

This is a good site for what is going on with the Ark water flows. (It hasn't been updated most of the summer, but seems like they are starting to update more regularly.):

WaterFlow Announcements

Looks like there will be an increase of 50 on Friday at 6pm. From above site, posted today: "The Pueblo Board of Water Works will begin releasing 50.42 cfs from Clear Creek Reservoir to Pueblo on Friday, July 9 at 6:00 p.m. This will continue until further notice."

Not a lot of water, but information at least.


Also states they dropped it 300 cfs last week in two increments of 150.


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## steven (Apr 2, 2004)

it will still have at least 700 in the #'s through 8/15, correct?


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## lmaciag (Oct 10, 2003)

It is 700 on the Wellsville gauge, not #'s gauge. Numbers is already down to 560


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## storm11 (Feb 10, 2006)

boo... hiss...

so what's the best play at this level? BV? Salida? Canon?


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## gh (Oct 13, 2003)

That release is probably just to meet the agreed upon 700 at the wellsville gauge until 8/15


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## Blade&Shaft (May 23, 2009)

WEEEEAAAAAAAAKKKKKKKKKK


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## Len (Dec 11, 2003)

Whatever. You surface choads have had your highwater for long enough. We've been waiting patiently for the ark to hit proper levels all season. The best play at said level = THIS.


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## BoilermakerU (Mar 13, 2009)

Is Brown's too low to raft now? What's the lowest "normal" folks run it in a raft?


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## Phil U. (Feb 7, 2009)

Pine Creek to BV is all great fun at these levels. Choose yer section and work it. The BV park has multiple features that are in with the new bottom feature giving up whatever tricks you have the skill to hit at these flows. Spins, cartwheels, loops, air loops, blunts, air blunts, mcnastys, blunt mcnasty combos, air screws... This feature is world class solid at summer flows. 

The rio is beautiful right now. Can't wait to get me some this weekend.

Phil


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## lmyers (Jun 10, 2008)

BoilermakerU said:


> Is Brown's too low to raft now? What's the lowest "normal" folks run it in a raft?


"Normal" folks don't exsist...but on average most rafters don't bother with Brown's below 600. It should stay somewhere in the 700-800 range through August 15th now...


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## Snowhere (Feb 21, 2008)

The powers that be are only saying they have enough water to last through July. So we could see the bottom drop out before the magical August 15th date. They do have the option to buy more acre feet for the augmentation, but we shall see if that happens or not.

We rafted it as low as 318 this spring when the flows were still nothing. I would not run my own raft as it borders on boat abuse, but it was good to see that a 14' oar boat could still make it down browns at that low a of a level!


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## Rich (Sep 14, 2006)

lmyers said:


> "Normal" folks don't exsist...but on average most rafters don't bother with Brown's below 600. It should stay somewhere in the 700-800 range through August 15th now...


 
Actually, "normal" people do exist, you just will not find them on a whitewater forum!


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## BoilermakerU (Mar 13, 2009)

Snowhere said:


> ...We rafted it as low as 318 this spring when the flows were still nothing. I would not run my own raft as it borders on boat abuse, but it was good to see that a 14' oar boat could still make it down browns at that low a of a level!


See, that's why I qualified my statement with "normal". 318? Wow, that can't be "normal", even for boaters! LOL

Good to know though, I have a 14' oar boat too. We're going with friends though, so we may opt to paddle the 14 footer instead. I just don't want to spend all day shoving the thing off of rocks. Having to avoid them is one thing, getting stuck every 50 yards would be another.

Thanks for the info all.


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## kayakArkansas (May 14, 2004)

steven said:


> it will still have at least 700 in the #'s through 8/15, correct?


 
Theoretically yes. Depends on how much they have to release to get it to 700, and how early they have to start said release (it's awful early). There are X acre-feet of water accounted for in the Flow Program agreement (thank your local commercial raft guide's bosses for orchestrating that one...). Once that water runs out, they'll quit releasing anything. Without some rain/luck it is plausible that the 700 CFS flow through 8/15 could end sooner rather than later... Good news is Pine Creek/Triple drop are fun even when they're low... Or to this Arkie mank-boater anyway...


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## foulhooked1 (Mar 29, 2010)

These are standard summer flows. After high water the raft compaies pay to maintain min flows. 700 is boney but easily runable. Ive been down browns down to 250 in a raft, nice walk. Follow comercial trips to the canyon to learn low water lines or you may have a frustrating start to your day.


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## BoilermakerU (Mar 13, 2009)

Can anyone beat 250? Going once, going twice... LOL

Lucky for me, I am going with a friend of mine that has been a guide for 20+ years. I hope he knows the lines by now...


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## lmyers (Jun 10, 2008)

BoilermakerU said:


> Can anyone beat 250? Going once, going twice... LOL


Actually yeah, did it down to 237 this fall...also ran #'s down to 119, but thats in a kayak, with lots of rock boofing.


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## Nathan (Aug 7, 2004)

Rafted it at 225 in a 14 footer.


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## Jahve (Oct 31, 2003)

The rafting companies pay to keep the river at 700 cfs at wellsville and also do all the footwork to make sure this happens.. The 700 is measured down below the town of exit (at wellsville http://www.dwr.state.co.us/SurfaceWater/data/detail_graph.aspx??MTYPE=DISCHRG&ID=ARKWELCO) not up in the numbers so the current flows are the flows for the rest of the summer unless it rains..

Right now there is just under 15k acr ft of water in twin for releases.. Many or most users of the river would like to see this all be used to be able keep the flows at 700 (or what is low boatable flows) in wellsville until aug 15th. Everyone but the fishermen and the DOW it seems. The DOW and fisherfolks would like to see the water as low as possible as quick as possible so they are pushing to only let us boaters use 10k of this 15k that is avaliable. Again the goal for them is to get the water as low as possible as quick as possible.... 

The Ark is managed for rec flows only 6 weeks of the year and the fisherfolks would like to cut into this and have made it clear that this is their goal. All of this so the fish grow maybe 1/4 of a in more on a fish that will not grow past 15" anyway due to the heavy metals.....

I have beat this drum for quite a while and boaters need to know that this year there was a big push to cut back on the flows that we get for boating. 

If you like these late season flows make sure and let the state parks (Arkansas headwaters rec area down in salida) know either via email or give them a call just to let them know that there are a bunch of folks that use the river other than just fishermen..

Good news is that the bodacious spot in BV is still great fun to surf and still is givin up all the tricks.. 

If that was not clear to anyone let me know what you dont and I will fill ya in...


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## BoilermakerU (Mar 13, 2009)

Nathan said:


> Rafted it at 225 in a 14 footer.


 Paddles or oars?

750 was low enough for me, even with a guide of 20+ years of experience. I'd go again at 750 on my own now that I've seen it that low and have seen the lines., but anything else seems like it would be too much work!


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## JDHOG72 (Jul 18, 2007)

RDNEK said:


> If you like these late season flows make sure and let the state parks (Arkansas headwaters rec area down in salida) know either via email or give them a call just to let them know that there are a bunch of folks that use the river other than just fishermen..
> 
> Good news is that the bodacious spot in BV is still great fun to surf and still is givin up all the tricks..
> 
> If that was not clear to anyone let me know what you dont and I will fill ya in...


Yo RDNEK, 
Can you post the email/phone of the state people to contact to let them know we want the water.

Thanks
JD


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## cooljerk (Jun 18, 2006)

*Flow Program*

The 1990 voluntary flow management program allows Fryingpan-Arkansas Project water and other supplies from Turquoise and Twin lakes to be released into the Arkansas River at strategic times to maintain flows for recreation through mid-August and for fish and wildlife during the winter months.

By agreement, the program is capped at 10,000 acre-feet of releases. On a side note, a new five-year agreement for the Upper Arkansas River voluntary flow program was agreed to in June of this year.

With cooperation from mother nature and a little luck, there is a chance that flows will remain somewhere near 700 cfs at Wellsville through August 15th. 

If you want to comment on the Flow Program one of the most direct and effective lines would be to contact the Southeastern Colorado Water Conservancy District board. They are the folks that approve the Program.


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## cooljerk (Jun 18, 2006)

Also on the subject of water in the Ark, due to the accident at Frog Rock, as of 7/12/10 flows on the Arkansas have been reduced to native flow until further notice. They may go lower if there is a need to assist in the recovery.


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## cadster (May 1, 2005)

The AHRA page adds to the confusion, go to:
WaterFlow Levels

It has the 10K af remaining for supplementing the flow, but shows the Program Flow Target as zero since July 1st.


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## cadster (May 1, 2005)

The flow recommendations start with the CO DNR. It would seem more useful to contact the DNR first. Below's the best description a search turns up of the VFMP from a congressional hearing.

_2. Upper Arkansas Voluntary Flow Management Program_
_It was noted in 1989 that commercial and private boating was _
_increasing, as were the number of fishermen on the Arkansas River above _
_Pueblo Reservoir. To answer the need for better management along the _
_river corridor, the Bureau of Land Management with the Colorado _
_Department of Parks and Outdoor Recreation (``CDPOR'') formed a new _
_management organization known as the Arkansas Headwaters Recreation _
_Area (``AHRA'')._
_The AHRA is assisted by a Citizen Task Force. The task force _
_reviews area issues and helps to give direction to the AHRA staff. This _
_task force is made up of volunteer citizen members throughout the basin _
_with representation from anglers, environmental groups, cattlemen, _
_water users, local governments, private boaters, and commercial rafting _
_companies._
_Prior to 1989, the rafting companies found that during the latter _
_part of summer, river flows became too low to continue their rafting _
_trips. They also noticed that river flows would increase as water users _
_made their releases to the various entities downstream. Early in 1991, _
_the rafting companies approached AHRA with an idea of a ``Volunteer _
_Flow Program.''_
_The Volunteer Flow Program was based in part on Reclamation timing _
_releases of Project water from Twin Lakes Reservoir and Turquoise _
_Reservoir to Pueblo Reservoir to meet the needs of fishermen and _
_rafters. The one problem with such releases was the increased _
_evaporative losses that resulted from storing increased amounts of _
_water in Pueblo Reservoir during the summer, rather than the higher _
_mountain reservoirs. In 1992, the Colorado Department of Natural _
_Resources (``DNR'') recommended that CDPOR use funds collected from the _
_commercial rafting companies to pay for replacement of evaporative _
_water losses caused by the summer augmentation. This repayment is only _
_necessary when the flows are released before they are actually needed _
_by Southeastern or Reclamation. The funds to pay for this replacement _
_are obtained from the commercial rafting companies' yearly licensing _
_fees._
_For many years, DNR, Southeastern and other interested parties _
_negotiated the terms of the program on an annual basis. In August of _
_2006, Southeastern, DNR, the Colorado Division of Wildlife (``CDOW''), _
_CDPOR, Chaffee County Board of County Commissioners, the Arkansas River _
_Outfitters Association and Trout Unlimited executed a five-year _
_agreement relating to the operation of the Upper Arkansas River _
_Voluntary Flow Management Program (``VFMP''). As was true in previous _
_years, the parties agreed to operate the VFMP on a year that runs from _
_July 1 of each year through June 30 of the following year (``Plan _
_Year''). For at least five Plan Years following the date of the VFMP _
_Agreement (2007-2011), DNR agreed that it would, after consultation _
_with the VFMP Parties, agreed to request Reclamation to operate the _
_VFMP by agreement with DNR and Southeastern on an annual basis._
_The highest priority for the VFMP is to maintain a minimum year-_
_round flow of at least 250 c.f.s. at the Wellsville gage, downstream _
_from Salida, to protect the fishery. To the extent possible, winter _
_incubation flows (mid-November through April) should be maintained from _
_250 to 400 c.f.s., depending on spawning flows. Between April 1 and May _
_15 the flow target is within the range of 250-400 c.f.s. to provide _
_conditions favorable to egg hatching and fry emergence. Any flow _
_augmentation for recreational use, or to maintain flows at a target _
_level greater than 250 c.f.s., is limited to the period from July 1 to _
_August 15. Subject to consideration of water and storage availability, _
_flows from July 1 to August 15 should be augmented to maintain flows at _
_700 c.f.s. through releases of Project water. The 700 c.f.s. level is a _
_target; the primary goal is to maintain predictable, consistent _
_recreation flows throughout the summer. Accordingly, Southeastern, DNR _
_and Reclamation evaluate the water likely to be available for _
_augmentation in a particular year and adjust the target accordingly to _
_ensure that augmentation water is not exhausted prior to the end of the _
_season. CDPOR is responsible for replacing evaporative losses to _
_Project water caused by this summer flow augmentation._
_To ensure that the Project is not releasing water that will be _
_consumed by other entities' exchanges, each year, the Parties request _
_Reclamation to include in its annual VFMP Operating Agreement a _
_provision restricting contract exchanges, to the effect that during the _
_time of the annual VFMP Operating Agreement, Reclamation will not _
_execute contract exchanges (non-Project water with Project water) until _
_after the May 1 water supply forecast from the NRCS has been evaluated _
_to assure that such contract exchanges will not interfere with _
_operation of the VFMP, nor impair the ability of the Fremont Sanitation _
_District or Salida Wastewater Treatment Plant to meet their Colorado _
_Discharge Permit System requirements. Reclamation has frequently _
_included such restrictions when granting contracts for storage in _
_Project facilities. The VFMP facilitates use of Project water for _
_multiple purposes by timing its release to support recreation and _
_fisheries while allowing consumptive use below Pueblo Reservoir._


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## deepsouthpaddler (Apr 14, 2004)

Cooljerk / RDNEK, any idea who the primary contact from the boating community would be for how the voluntary program got started in the first place and how it got approved? Would like to talk to someone about specifics. 

I'm working plans to try and get recreational flows on a handful of colorado rivers and this sounds like a good path that has precedent in colorado. Got some initial success on the north fork of the south platte, primarily because the south platte has a protection plan that sounds somewhat similar to the ark flow program to protect the fishery and improve recreation. 

Thanks for the info.


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## cadster (May 1, 2005)

Craig Stuller and Leslie Tyson are the current private boater reps with AHRA.


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## cooljerk (Jun 18, 2006)

DeepSouth,

Two good places to start would be: 

Reed Dils (719) 395-8949 at the Southeastern Colorado Water Conservancy District http://www.secwcd.org

and Terry Scanga (719) 539-5425 at the Upper Arkansas Water Conservancy District http://uawcd.com

Read has a long history in the Ark Valley and has been quite active politically over the last 30 years especially regarding water issues and recreational boating. He was around as a commercial outfitter when AHRA and the original River Management Plan for the Ark was created and he'd be able to give you plenty of insight on the history of the Flow Program as well.

Good luck!


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## cadster (May 1, 2005)

The AHRA page is now showing the Program water used and remaining.

It says there is enough water to maintain the flow thru the end of the year, but I'm assuming that's for only 250 CFS after 8/15.



cadster said:


> The AHRA page adds to the confusion, go to:
> WaterFlow Levels
> 
> It has the 10K af remaining for supplementing the flow, but shows the Program Flow Target as zero since July 1st.


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## cadster (May 1, 2005)

The AHRA page now shows the Program water running out before the 8/15.



cadster said:


> The AHRA page adds to the confusion, go to:
> WaterFlow Levels
> 
> It has the 10K af remaining for supplementing the flow, but shows the Program Flow Target as zero since July 1st.


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## huckit21 (Nov 4, 2003)

*What about duckies on Browns at this level?*

Thinking about taking some family down in duckies, not much whitewater experience for them. Is this something that people do, is it safe (relatively).


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## mbannister (May 19, 2006)

If you know what you're doing, and your family's in good shape they will probably survive.


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## BoilermakerU (Mar 13, 2009)

Does your family enjoy swimming? LOL


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## huckit21 (Nov 4, 2003)

so we are thinking about going aug 13-16 ish, hoping the level might be a bit lower. But if it stays the same it siounds like you all think it could be a carnage fest. Perhaps then the fractions? like i said, they are all very physically fit but have little to no whitewater experience.


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## Snowhere (Feb 21, 2008)

Browns is a much better run then fractions. If your family is in decent shape they will do fine. How old is everyone and are they active/physical people? When my brother came out to visit, I threw him in a ducky and had him follow me in my kayak. With just a little instruction at the beginning and someone to show him the lines, he did fine with no swims. My brother was a windsurfer, so I knew he would catch on quickly.


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## lmyers (Jun 10, 2008)

huckit21 said:


> Thinking about taking some family down in duckies, not much whitewater experience for them. Is this something that people do, is it safe (relatively).


You will most likely be fine, but you might benefit from having a companion who is familiar. You could post a thread in the "trip planner" forum, or contact RMOC and hire a guide...Either way I would suggest going sooner than later, it is slow and forgiving right now. If you wait later it will be more rock than water. Definitely Browns over Fractions for you guys, for lots of reasons.


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