# Ducking a rope?



## rhm (May 16, 2006)

i know it is illegal to duck a rope to exit the boundary of a ski area, except for at a designated exit gate. is it illegal if you go out a legitimate exit gate, and then duck a rope to come back into the ski area. any info regarding this is pretty hard to find on the internet.


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## freeheelintodd (Aug 7, 2005)

*rope ducking*

backcountry gates are set by the national forest, not the ski patrol. Therefore policies are different in each county. Technically you must reenter through a gate but this rule may be more overlooked than your exit point. Just dont be stupid and reenter at apoint that has a lot of traffic/visibility or just ask your local patrol


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## Mike Harvey (Oct 10, 2003)

so I was thinking about this issue yesterday. At Monarch you can leave through a gate which are in terrible locations, basically low enough that it was hardly worth the lift ride up to leave through a gate because you have to skin again anyway. Then you can not re-enter the resort at all. What I have been told is that it is now a $1000 fine to duck a rope in Colorado (State Law). All of this is bullshit and I would like to send some letters to Monarch about their policy. I just got back from Nelson, BC where at Whitewater you can tour anywhere using the lift...they even have one ride tickets. I realize that liability laws may be different in Canada but if Jackson can do it why not my hill?

So does anyone know if aside from National Forest permitting issues are there other reasons that resorts can not open their boundaries? What I am really asking is do insurance companies make this policy cost prohibative for smaller areas? Why can't we have the skull and cross bones signs and gates at the top of runs? I am ignoring the fact that my ski resort might be scared of the liability issues regardless of how their insurance might view it. Any ideas....?


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## BastrdSonOfElvis (Mar 24, 2005)

Don't get caught.


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## rhm (May 16, 2006)

that is what i thought about only reentering at a gate, but what about just reentering the ski area at an unroped boundary. there are places in steamboat that you can exit through a gate and then reenter the ski area where there is no rope at the boundary, you technically aren't using a gate to reenter, but you are not ducking a rope to get across the boundary either.

the reason i ask this is a few years ago some friends of mine came to town and we exited at the forest service gate beside the east face gate. we were going to ski a long gradual gladed pitch that leads back to another gate right beside the morningside lift. i was under the impression that we were in the right as long as we didn't duck a rope. a ski patroller saw us on the other side of the rope while he was skiing inbounds. he started yelling at us to get back inbounds. said he was going to take everyone's tickets. once we all came back and ducked the rope right in front of the patroller to get inbounds, he let us off with a warning. my friends blamed me for getting them in trouble, and still bring it up every time i ski with them. i tell them that the only rule we broke was the one the patroller made us break by ducking the rope to come back in. they still think the patroller was right and that i am wrong.


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## Don (Oct 16, 2003)

*Now just in...*

Now just in...

SNOWMASS (AP) - Rescuers from the Pitkin County Sheriff's office pulled a 42-year-old snowboarder out of deep snow in an out-of-bounds area near Snowmass. 


A news release said deputies and the Snowmass Ski Patrol found the man, whose name was not released, in a deep ravine early Sunday morning

Moral: Don't get stuck.


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## couloircat (Nov 4, 2005)

from what I've been told by my boss's the way the law is written in colorado says if a boundary rope is adjacent to public lands than you can exit that rope whenever you want, but when you re-enter it must be through a gate. This can get tricky though because alot of boundaries are with private property and that's definitely a no no, also from what I've been told the summit area mountains have their boundary ropes set up 10 feet within the boundary so when you duck that rope you're entering a closed area within the ski are boundary wich can result in up to a $1,000.00 fine. As for reentering where there is no rope I'd imagine as long as you were cool to anyone who was upset with you for doing so and treated them with respect and explained that there was no rope and you thaought it was okay they'd probably give you the low down on that specific area and it'd be okay as long as you don't get aggro on them.


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## Mike Harvey (Oct 10, 2003)

sucks that we all have to play these games when we pay for our pass and pay our taxes for public lands.


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## rhm (May 16, 2006)

you would think that here in colorado with so many people who ski at ski areas that use the back country exits, that this would be an easy thing to figure out. there has to be some rules, and someone out there must know and understand the rules. it seems that even the ski patrollers at the ski areas don't even understand the rules. ski areas are very vague on the exit signs and also on the trail maps. they say you may only exit at a designated gate, but nothing is said about where to reenter. since the ski areas put this much in writing, i can't see that you would be allowed to duck a rope to exit the ski area even if the boundary was on forest service property.


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## Mike Harvey (Oct 10, 2003)

my understanding is that you can not "lap" the backcountry using the lifts. At least that is what I have been told at Monarch. So that is why gates are so low, you basically have to skin back up in order to ski the adjacent backcountry. My question is, name that last time that a ski area was successfully sued by someone when they were sufficently warned and basically were operating on an assumed risk type of sceanrio? It just does not seem like that happens and so it seems like ski areas just don't want the extra hassle...with the exception of places like Jackson that seem to cater to their hard core base.


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## Steve Kahn (Apr 17, 2004)

*anyone else?*

well, not really the convo you're having, but i've noticed that here in colorado, there are ropes everywhere, and lots of ropes, and lots of lines under ropes. 

we all love pow - and i do quite alot of rope ducking for pow. 99.9999% of the time, it is an inbounds duck to get some pow, and then another duck back into the area. rinse and repeat.

however, i've noticed that when i have carried this out in other states (utah/wyoming) - i end up above some fucked up cliff with heavy trees below.....

basically, my point is that here in colorado, there are lots of ropes up, to keep people out, probably because of some hazard (gnerally mostly shallow rocks) - but in other states, when they put the ropes up, they really mean it, and ducking is not a good idea.


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## COUNT (Jul 5, 2005)

Definately. I've found that at the areas I have a good respect for (the more hard core ski areas like A-Basin, Telluride, Alta, Snowbird, Jackson)the ropes are usually there for a good reason and you definately don't want to duck them unless you know what you're doing and exactly where you're going. Places like Keystone, on the otherhand, tend to use ropes to show you where you most want to be .

COUNT


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## rhm (May 16, 2006)

*Re: rope ducking*



freeheelintodd said:


> backcountry gates are set by the national forest, not the ski patrol.


if this is true then why does monarch put them at the bottom of the hill and steamboat puts them at the top. seems that the forest service would have the same reasoning, and criteria for placement of gates no matter which ski area they are placing them at.


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## JCKeck1 (Oct 28, 2003)

From what matt says, it sounds like things are different at vail, but here's the low down at keystone. Yes the gates are definitely set by the forrest service and one of the major reasons they are so inconvienent is because the back country is supposed to be just that - back country. If the forrest service wanted to see the amount of skier traffic that is inbounds they would just allow the resorts to expand their boundries. 

If you leave a gate, you may re-enter the resort only at the lifts in the base area. The ski area boundries in all of colorado are closed and not leaving through a gate is punishable by a $1000 fine. Same goes for cutting ropes in-bounds. That $1000 goes to Flight for Life/S&R opperations and so you may find that some resorts wont blink at awarding it. 

Keystone has had several massive inbounds slides this year - be sure you know where you're going.

On a final note, you can get away with a lot if you definitely know where you're going, bring friends and carry a positive attitude when confronted. Drop the wrong words and you may meet the sherriff at the bottom.

I'm not necessarily defending all these policies, that's just the way they are.

Also, be sure to see the silverton thread on this forum.
Joe


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## DaleTR (Jan 11, 2005)

Curious as to people's thoughts on a another version of the rope ducking scenario. 

How about ducking a rope to ENTER an area after accessing it from the BC outside? Say ski up & over from Montezuma to the top of Keystone, or ski Commando run then down Vail? (Both old, classic routes...) No lift ticket, BC access from a completely different route. Would this require coming in thru a gate to remain within the "spirit" of the laws?

I will say that the patrol at Keystone was "split" on us doing that with a few dogs years ago... One thought it was cool, one was "less happy" with it.  The Tuorons were confused... "How do you get the dogs on the lift?" Our relpy: They are 1/2 price


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## JCKeck1 (Oct 28, 2003)

Dale, yes that would violate the "spirit" of the law. You can probably get away with it though. However, you still cannot use any lifts without facing "theft of services" charges, which can be substantial and are always prosecuted when discovered. I'm not sure about the dogs. I would imagine it's ok, but I know the resorts operate under special permits which allow them to ban things such as sledding and in the past, snowboarding.


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## earthNRG (Oct 24, 2003)

I'm under the impression that all these rope rules stem from the cost of S&R. Simple solution: privitize S&R. Stuck in the BC? Pony up and we'll get you out of there. You say you're not one of the idiots, did everything right, and still got stuck or injured in a "freak accident?" So what, you knew the risks, now you need to accept responsibility for your rescue or death. Your choice.


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## Mike Harvey (Oct 10, 2003)

Here is my dream scenario here at Monarch. 1. Put gate at top of ridges with appropriate warning signs, 2. leave old gates at lower points for re-entry, 3. let those who are prepared and willing leave high gates and ski to low gates, 4. jump back on lift and repeat.

As far as increaseing S&R incidents...same as any other backcounty experience. There is nothing stopping gapers from getting in trouble everywhere else...let 'er rip and pay the consequences or buy a COSAR card and don't. Why are those who are able, willing, smart and prepared constantly penalized to help protect Citizen Gape?

with the noted exception of areas where gapers or anyone really can trigger a slide that runs back inbounds, that scenario does not actually exist here at my home hill but does other places I am sure.


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## tress33 (Jan 5, 2007)

Well said Mike. That would be sweet.


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