# Cooler Opinions??



## Tiggy

Who makes the best cooler?
Thanks in advance for opinions !


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## lhowemt

I've heard from many the more reasonably priced coolers do practically as well (or even better) than the super expensive ones like yeti and such. Spend your money on some foil covered bubble wrap. Layer ice in the bottom, then bubble wrap. Then food, and more bubble wrap. Easy to make it over a week like that. A cooler cover also helps in the heat, keeps the sun off the cooler.


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## DurangoSteve

I concur with lhowemt. The foil-covered bubblestuff can make an OK cooler a great cooler. I use it on the outside of the cooler as well as inside.


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## calendar16

Tiggy said:


> Who makes the best cooler?
> Thanks in advance for opinions !


I think answers (like mine) will be biased towards what people own.

Personally, I got a great deal (still 300 bones, yikes) for a Yeti Sherpa 145 quart cooler. The thing is bomber! It is easily the best cooler I have ever owned compared to my various other Coleman coolers. It held ice on a week long trip down Deso/Gray with daily cooler openings.

I would also say that cooler performance depends ALOT on how you pack it...I like to freeze as much stuff as possible within reason i.e. when you plan on eating/drinking it. For long trips I like to freeze water in containers so the cooler stays dry as opposed to ice melting and getting everything wet. Also, make sure you freeze or refrigerate all the stuff that will be in the cooler prior to packing the cooler, this reduces the energy needed to cool room temperature items which melts/thaws your ice/frozen stuff fast.

There are lots of good coolers out there but personally I have been very content with my Yeti both for it's cold retention and its bomber material.

Good luck!


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## Jensjustduckie

http://www.rubbermaid.com/rubbermaid/ecommerce/product.jhtml?prodId=HpdProd200014&catId=HpdCat190071

This is the one we have, built in ice/beverage dividers. We freeze jugs of water for extra ice but it's WAY cheaper than a Yeti and works just as well.


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## raftus

Here are my thoughts on Coolers - you can read the full article at Cooler Type and Packing - Rafting Grand Canyon



1) In this case, size matters. 
Bigger coolers are more efficient (read: hold ice longer) regardless of brand - this is pure physics. This also assuming that you fill each cooler to the top with ice and cold items. 
2) Cooler management makes a difference. This is REALLY important! 
If you want cold stuff at day 17 on a summer desert trip you need to: 
Have that cooler sealed for the first 2/3 of the trip, probably have it pre-frozen (a local grocery store, meat packer, or ice cream place may help you out), and maybe need to use some dry-ice. 
Keep you cooler covered, say with a Paco Pad. The photo of the boat here shows a cooler covered with a blue Paco Pad and a small white insulating cover under the pad. 
Try to stay out of the cooler at mid day. Get in/out of the cooler in the shade in the early morning. 
3) The expensive coolers seal themselves. The cheap coolers seal up with duct tape or a user installed seal. 
4) The cheaper coolers generally have hinges and latches that break somewhat easily and will be replaced by many users. The expensive ones have much stronger hinges and latches. 
5) If price is no object the expensive coolers are great. If price matters the cheap coolers may require some TLC, but will work just fine. The expensive coolers don't seem to have superior insulation, just superior construction. 
6) There's a very extensive Cooler Test at this page: [1] 
Cheap cooler - $59.87 - Rubbermaid Marine Cooler - 150 qt.: [2]


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## Randaddy

I have an Igloo and an Icy Kool. The Icy Kool has a rubber gasket and insulation that is at least twice as thick. I haven't used the Icy Kool yet, but it seems like it will keep stuff cold for at least a few days longer. It definitely looks more durable than the Igloo.


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## lhowemt

Randaddy said:


> The Icy Kool has a rubber gasket and insulation that is at least twice as thick.


Remember, bigger isn't always better.....:-D

depends on the type of insulation and it's R-value


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## rwhyman

My thoughts are that the "beefer" construction and tighter seal on the more expensive coolers make them the way to go for long hot trips. Use all the fore mentioned extra cooling tips and you can make ice last a long time.
I personally have a Yeti and bought an Engel for a Grand trip last year that worked great.
That being said, before I got the high dollar units, I used the Igloo's that came with the used rafts that I own and with proper cooler management, they served me well.


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## UserName

Whatever cooler,, I don't think i t matters much... 

- BUT -

What you can do is cut some plywood, seal it, rubber cement to the top, take a cheap foam sleaping mat and glue that to the plywood.

Makes for a beefy lid that you can sit on, stand on, jump up and down on - with a cushy seat for sitting on that also adds insulation and impeeds evaporitive features of a nice sunny day. 

If you really need to help it stay cool throw a wet towel over it. This evaporates the towel not your ice.

All the same, my first choice has always been the big GOTT coolers.

ps Walmart had some wicked sales on big coolers last fall, like $50 for 100+ quart coolers that seemed as sturdy as any. Don't know if these were ongoing prices or just end of season...


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## Tiggy

I like the looks of the Engles. I do not mind paying a little more for a cooler. I am gathering that the money comes down to the plastic construction, hinges etc..
Thanks for the tips!


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## Perdido

Nothing I've found compares to a Yeti in terms of cooling and pure bomberness.

They're too expensive and heavier than a dead preacher even when they're empty.


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## El Flaco

I have another quick cooler tip, above the ones that were already mentioned. 

If you haven't been able to freeze water containers beforehand, you can still make store-bought bags of cubed or blocks last pretty long by loading them in tied-off trash compactor bags (Costco) before they go into the cooler. The ice lasts longer, and keeps the water off your food. 

I always keep a big roll of compactor bags in my raft kit- they're good for everything for trash & coal/ash cleanup, to extra sleeping bag protection for a leaky drybag. Plus you can use each one of them 2-3 times because they're so durable.


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## Osprey

*really??*

have you guys who claim your cheap coolers work just as well as the expensive one's tried an expensive one or just think yours is as good? I have a really hard time believing from my experience that the cheap ones hold a candle. One of the key factors with the insulation is the density and pressure with which it is injected. In addition to the beefier construction the more expensive coolers have far superior insulation. Denser the better. That is why, as someone else mentioned, a Yeti or the others weigh a ton even when they are empty. It's not the plastic but the insulation just weighs that much more. 

I've still been serving myself up ice cubes for my liquid refreshment after over a week out of my Yeti on desert trips with opening it multiple times a day and still have the blocks be 80%+ at the end of the trip. I've never seen another cooler be able to do that. I have no doubt the cheaper coolers work just fine with good management on anything but the longest trips but it's nice to have a nice cushion and not have to worry about it a ton. 

Always make your own ice and blocks. I just get the 2.5 gal drinking water jugs and freeze the whole thing. Store bought ice has too much air in it to hold cold well. It's aerated in the process which is why it melts so fast. Get a beach towel and dip it in the river every few hours and drape it over the cooler. the evaporative effect helps a ton. Always pre-freeze your cooler. A ton of cooling energy is lost at first just getting the cooler down to temp. Get a couple blocks of dry-ice a couple days before the trip to super chill the empty cooler then leave any remainder under the blocks for an extra couple days cushion. 

and don't freeze your chicken if you're going to use it before day five of your trip. it will still be frozen and take an eternity to cook. (lesson learned last year on the Yampa....)


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## raftus

Osprey - check out the link I posted earlier to a cooler test with both cheap and expensive coolers. The Ultra Cool (made by Engel) did great, the Icey Tek did okay, and the Igloo Marine excelled. 

Here's the intro: The Official: 2007 Cooler Showdown - 2CoolFishing

And here's the results:The Official: 2007 Cooler Showdown - Page 8 - 2CoolFishing

For both the Ultra Cool and the Igloo Marine after 7 days only about 32% of their ice had melted. The Ultra Cool was better by about .5%, but that is well within the margin of error and statistically insignificant. And the Igloo costs a lot less if you get the cheap version like they used for this test - aka Ace Hardware not NRS. The Icey Tek (aka Yeti) did worse, about 44% of it's ice melted. 

Also - High density insulation isn't always better - a vacuum is ideal, and it has 0 density.


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## lhowemt

raftus said:


> Also - High density insulation isn't always better - a vacuum is ideal, and it has 0 density.


Exactly, it is actually the air that provides the insulation, not the foam. The better the foam holds air IN PLACE and doesn't allow it to convect, the better the insulation. But, that said, denser is usually better, but performance is what matters.

Our igloo marine had ice at the take out on an august 7 day lower salmon trip, 95+ degrees, VERY poor cooler management too. No wet towel, just a cover and foil bubble wrap.

Also, I had a cheap wally-world cooler on the grand last april, also 90+ degrees. Ice lasted 10 days. It's all how you make it work. As much as I love my cast iron, fry pans and won't leave home without them, I'd rather not have excessive cooler dead weight in my boat.


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## rwhyman

*FYI*

As I understand, a while back, Yeti bought out Icey Tek and now Yeti offers 2 different lines of coolers. Don't know which one was used in "the test".

Here is the Yeti link

Yeti Coolers


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## oopsiflipped

Gosh and if you can't trust the scientifc standards of the 2CoolFishing message board, who can you trust?

NO ONE!


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## shappattack

*Igloo marine 94 qt not $55*

They are well over $100, not $55 as quoted in the study. Anyone know were I could pick a new one up for under $60


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## Randaddy

shappattack said:


> They are well over $100, not $55 as quoted in the study. Anyone know were I could pick a new one up for under $60


Wal Mart sells Igloo Marine coolers. Not that I would recommend shopping there, but the website will probably give you the lowest price you could expect to pay for one. You won't find a 100 quart cooler for under $60 though.


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## shappattack

Search results for igloo marine - Wal-mart

$119 at walmart, over 2 times the quoted price in the 2007 study. I can't find this cooler for under $100, 55 to over 100 in a year? is that inflation or study bias?


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## Osprey

raftus said:


> Osprey - check out the link I posted earlier to a cooler test with both cheap and expensive coolers. The Ultra Cool (made by Engel) did great, the Icey Tek did okay, and the Igloo Marine excelled.
> 
> Here's the intro: The Official: 2007 Cooler Showdown - 2CoolFishing
> 
> And here's the results:The Official: 2007 Cooler Showdown - Page 8 - 2CoolFishing
> 
> For both the Ultra Cool and the Igloo Marine after 7 days only about 32% of their ice had melted. The Ultra Cool was better by about .5%, but that is well within the margin of error and statistically insignificant. And the Igloo costs a lot less if you get the cheap version like they used for this test - aka Ace Hardware not NRS. The Icey Tek (aka Yeti) did worse, about 44% of it's ice melted.
> 
> Also - High density insulation isn't always better - a vacuum is ideal, and it has 0 density.


for some reason I couldn't get the results to come up right but I hardly think that a scientific or conclusive test. All I know is there is no way I would lose 44% of my ice on a 7 day trip in my Yeti. Or at least in my several years using mine I never have. Simply wouldn't happen I would bet we could get dozens of opinions from this board that would support that. My hunch would be since he didn't pre-chill the coolers that the Yeti took more energy to get all that insulation down to temp and that sucked the life out of the ice. You have to start with good management to get the best out of it and he didn't do that from the get go. 

I would be willing to bet that if anyone here did the same test but pre-chilled the cooler and then set it out back unopened like he claimed, my educated guess from actually using the cooler for several years would be that I would lose less than 5% of my ice. I don't really care about debating the physics of all of it, just to relay my impressions of my cooler to the OP like he asked for. I agreed with your first post, I'm sure the cheaper ones get the job done with good management. There were just a couple other people who seem to like to say a Coleman is as good as a Yeti without giving any examples of how they have been able to get the same results or really sounding like they've used an expensive cooler, just convincing themselves without firsthand experience that theirs is just as good. All I am conveying is as several others here have as well, they and I have been very impressed and content with their decision in going for a Yeti or similar cooler. Nothing else I've ever used has come close, that's all I'm saying. The best part is pulling out a still fully frozen water bottle out of the cooler on day 8 and seeing the look in their eyes since they've been drinking hot jug river dunked water for three days. Of course, I can always offer them some cubes for their glasses......


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## shappattack

I have a smaller boat and can only get an 80 qt Yeti sherpa in there and my Gott Marine cooler. Please note there is 2 inch foam glued on top of the Gott, and none on the Yeti at that time. The Yeti performance is much better than the Gott with no special treatment. I had ice in the Yeti last for 7+ days with no pre-chill or pre-freezing of food on the Owyhee last year, the Gott Ice was gone after about 5 days. No special treatment, no reducing open/closed or anything, just drunken shenanigans. Yeti won hands down.


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## spankey

calendar16 said:


> I think answers (like mine) will be biased towards what people own.
> 
> Personally, I got a great deal (still 300 bones, yikes) for a Yeti Sherpa 145 quart cooler. The thing is bomber!


I also have the Yeti 145. It's big, but you can't have too much ice.


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## WestSlopeWW

spankey said:


> I also have the Yeti 145. It's big, but you can't have too much ice.


We too have a Yeti 145, took it through Cat last summer. Four days straight of 105 degrees. The ice was still to the top of the cooler when we pulled into Hite. I doubt a Wal-Mart special can do that...


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## teletoes

*Just Wondering...*

My buddy has a freezer that sucks the air out when you close the door. Besides making a satisfying “whoosh” sound, it gets rid of the air contributing to conduction.

Every time I look at my spare valve, I think about hooking it up to my cooler and using my hand pump to suck out the air.

Obvious problems would be getting a good seal on the cooler, and closing the valve fast enough to make a difference. Assuming I could solve these problems and I got up the balls to drill a hole in my cooler, I wonder if it would help?

Would storing ice under lower pressure help preserve it?


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## raftus

It would be cool to do our own cooler test - get people to loan their coolers for a week in mid summer and see what happens. Will a Coleman Extreme 7 day Cooler keep ice as well as an Engel? Is the Yeti better than a Icey-Tek? Can Batman escape the Riddler?


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## TakemetotheRiver

I've read all the reviews and compared all the coolers and I still can't decide. The Igloo Marine is by far the cheapest at $119 but is the Walmart one identical to the $162 one from the Igloo online store?

http://www.igloo-store.com/product_detail.asp?T1=IGL+MARINE+94&HDR=marineseries

Walmart.com: Igloo Marine 94-Quart Cooler: Camping

Someone who has the Yeti, it appears that it has a nice lip that could keep it above the frame hold if it was the right size- is this true? Would I be better off with an Engel that's pretty uniform (box-like)? 

How about the ones with rope handles- are they sturdy, useful?

Anything else?


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## riverdoghenry

*Bear Proof*



TakemetotheRiver said:


> Someone who has the Yeti, it appears that it has a nice lip that could keep it above the frame hold if it was the right size- is this true?


I have the Yeti Sherpa 120 and I just measured the bottom of the lip to the floor and it's 15.5". Little less if you take the rubber feet off.

Did you know that the Tundra is approved as a bear-proof container on Federal Lands:

Bear Resistant Cooler | Yeti Coolers


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## TakemetotheRiver

Interesting, but it says that only the new Tundra coolers are bear-proof and only if they have padlocks on both ends. I'm looking at the Sherpa and the Roughneck. The Tundra is out of my price range- I guess I'll have to stick with tying things in trees and airhorns.



riverdoghenry said:


> I have the Yeti Sherpa 120 and I just measured the bottom of the lip to the floor and it's 15.5". Little less if you take the rubber feet off.
> 
> Did you know that the Tundra is approved as a bear-proof container on Federal Lands:
> 
> Bear Resistant Cooler | Yeti Coolers


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## riverdoghenry

TakemetotheRiver said:


> I'm looking at the Sherpa and the Roughneck. The Tundra is out of my price range-


I completely understand! It was hard for me to plop down a lot of cash for a plastic box (Sherpa), but I've had no regrets. FYI, the drain plug on my Sherpa sticks out past the actual side, beyond the measurements online. If you're buying it with a close tolerance you may have the drain plug digging in to the side of your tubes. The Tundra is recessed. 

I would put the Roughneck and Sherpa as about the same quality. It really comes down to which one fits your boat the best. There's the Roughneck Long, Roughneck Cubed, and Sherpa. All have different measurements for the same size cooler. The Sherpa fit my boat the best.


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## TakemetotheRiver

riverdoghenry said:


> FYI, the drain plug on my Sherpa sticks out past the actual side, beyond the measurements online. If you're buying it with a close tolerance you may have the drain plug digging in to the side of your tubes. The Tundra is recessed.
> 
> I would put the Roughneck and Sherpa as about the same quality. It really comes down to which one fits your boat the best. There's the Roughneck Long, Roughneck Cubed, and Sherpa. All have different measurements for the same size cooler. The Sherpa fit my boat the best.


This is exactly the kind of info I'm looking for- I'm not concerned about the plug digging into the tubes, but just being able to get it into the cooler hold on the frame- I have a coleman cooler now that the drain plug is destroyed from shoving it into the cooler drop. I want to avoid this with the new cooler. Do you know if the Roughneck has a recessed drain?


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## riverdoghenry

TakemetotheRiver said:


> This is exactly the kind of info I'm looking for- I'm not concerned about the plug digging into the tubes, but just being able to get it into the cooler hold on the frame- I have a coleman cooler now that the drain plug is destroyed from shoving it into the cooler drop. I want to avoid this with the new cooler. Do you know if the Roughneck has a recessed drain?


On the Yeti site it appears that they do stick out and you have two to deal with verses one on the Sherpa


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## riverdoghenry

*My Experience W/ Sherpa*

I used my Sherpa last July on the Salmon and prepped it and only opened it a couple times a day, like I did with my previous Igloo. Kept it covered. On the take out my ice had only melted 20%. I discovered I could be more relaxed with this cooler and just use it.

In late August, I ran Deso with some family, friends, and dogs. It was triple-digit. The last night it was triple-digit after midnight. I believe it was the hottest week of the year. Cooled the the cooler with a couple blocks of ice/water the day before and filled it with frozen food and cold beer. I was completely relaxed opened it multiple times a day. Left it in the sun. I made it out with ice. A lot had melted, but enough to stop in Green River and fill it full of melons for the drive back to Salt Lake. Two boats on the trip had cheap coolers and their ice was gone on the second to last day.


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## TakemetotheRiver

I am leaning toward the Sherpa, but the Ultra-Cool by Engel is about $20 cheaper for the same size with a recessed drain plug and rope handles (in addition to molded handles). The dimensions for the Sherpa say they are taken below the handle lip where the cooler would drop in a frame, but that doesn't tell me whether the drain plug would clear the frame and it appears to stick out as you said in the pictures. So, how much does the lip and plug add to the length and width? Will the plug clear the frame, but the lip rest above it? How do you secure it/hang it from your frame?



riverdoghenry said:


> I used my Sherpa last July on the Salmon and prepped it and only opened it a couple times a day, like I did with my previous Igloo. Kept it covered. On the take out my ice had only melted 20%. I discovered I could be more relaxed with this cooler and just use it.
> 
> In late August, I ran Deso with some family, friends, and dogs. It was triple-digit. The last night it was triple-digit after midnight. I believe it was the hottest week of the year. Cooled the the cooler with a couple blocks of ice/water the day before and filled it with frozen food and cold beer. I was completely relaxed opened it multiple times a day. Left it in the sun. I made it out with ice. A lot had melted, but enough to stop in Green River and fill it full of melons for the drive back to Salt Lake. Two boats on the trip had cheap coolers and their ice was gone on the second to last day.


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## spankey

TakemetotheRiver said:


> Someone who has the Yeti, it appears that it has a nice lip that could keep it above the frame hold if it was the right size- is this true? Would I be better off with an Engel that's pretty uniform (box-like)?
> 
> Anything else?


I have the Yetti and the sides and front back have a little taper so if you slide it in for the lip to hold it works but has to be close. The advantage of a taper is when you pull it out it comes out very easily, because of the taper.
I also use straps, not that I flip or anything like that.
Spankmeister.


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## coloradopaddler

*yeti drain plug*

i talked to ryan at yeti this afternoon and he said you can reverse the drain plug on the sherpa so it faces the interior of the cooler. i'm in the market too but can't find a cooler with about 100 qt. capacity that is 36 inches or less for my 143d. i've got a little galaxy that is only 65 qt or so. it can get pretty tight on longer trips.


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## riverdoghenry

*It Works*



coloradopaddler said:


> i talked to ryan at yeti this afternoon and he said you can reverse the drain plug on the sherpa so it faces the interior of the cooler. i'm in the market too but can't find a cooler with about 100 qt. capacity that is 36 inches or less for my 143d. i've got a little galaxy that is only 65 qt or so. it can get pretty tight on longer trips.


I just tried it and yes the plug threads backwards from the inside. I'll leave it there, less likely to be damaged from the inside.

Thanks!!!


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## TakemetotheRiver

coloradopaddler said:


> i talked to ryan at yeti this afternoon and he said you can reverse the drain plug on the sherpa so it faces the interior of the cooler. i'm in the market too but can't find a cooler with about 100 qt. capacity that is 36 inches or less for my 143d. i've got a little galaxy that is only 65 qt or so. it can get pretty tight on longer trips.


Jim- these are the two I'm looking at. The Engel is 115qt and 36 in. in length. The Yeti Sherpa is 120qt and 36in. in length. Thanks for the tip about the plug- that may be a deciding factor. The only thing is that cascade outfitters is the only site I found that has the 120qt with 36in.- the rest say 38.75?

Ultra Cool Fishing Coolers, Super Insulated Fish Coolers from alltackle.com

https://www.cascadeoutfitters.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/product.display/product_id/2050/index.cfm


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## riverdoghenry

Last year I was in the Market for an Engel, because my mother has two of them and has had them for years. My dealer friend who sells only Engel and Yeti pushed me towards Yeti, because he had had some issues with Engel in the last couple of productions. He said that he'd seen a lot of lids that did not seal tight on Engel because the molding was getting a little sloppy. I've not heard this anywhere else. 

Last year the Yeti was a little cheaper than Engel, but it now sounds as if Engel has lowered their price.

Upon getting my Yeti last year it had a very minute drip from the drain plug. I called Yeti and the owner answered and he expressed-mailed me a new plug assembly and spare, and even through in a extra latch for no charge.


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## TakemetotheRiver

OK- I'm definitely leaning toward the Yeti. How close does yours fit into your frame? The length of my cooler hold is 37" and the Sherpa is 38 at the lip and 35 at the base. I'm fine with the lip being above the frame, but I'm wondering if the handles will fit when I slide it in.



riverdoghenry said:


> Last year I was in the Market for an Engel, because my mother has two of them and has had them for years. My dealer friend who sells only Engel and Yeti pushed me towards Yeti, because he had had some issues with Engel in the last couple of productions. He said that he'd seen a lot of lids that did not seal tight on Engel because the molding was getting a little sloppy. I've not heard this anywhere else.
> 
> Last year the Yeti was a little cheaper than Engel, but it now sounds as if Engel has lowered their price.
> 
> Upon getting my Yeti last year it had a very minute drip from the drain plug. I called Yeti and the owner answered and he expressed-mailed me a new plug assembly and spare, and even through in a extra latch for no charge.


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## Snowhere

I want a Yeti! I will pick up their 105qt tundra when I can. I also have 37" tube to tube so at 35" the 105 will fit fine and hopefully still be manageable for me loaded. I have used their 85qt tundra, borrowed from a friend and loved the sturdiness of it. The first thing we did was have it fall off the tailgate of the truck driving at the put-in! The only thing damaged was a couple of broken eggs!


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## coloradopaddler

kirsten,
cascade lists their measurements from below the lip. 4 corners told me that they were going to start stocking the yeti's, i'll have to go fit one to my boat. i was worried about the handles fitting within my tubes but the 120 is so tall that it shouldn't be a problem. how is the end of the month shaping up?


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## TakemetotheRiver

Cool- I'll go talk to Tony and see when he'll have them in- testing one in the frame would be the best way to tell.

No takers on the Chama yet. Everyone is doing something else or working. 



coloradopaddler said:


> kirsten,
> cascade lists their measurements from below the lip. 4 corners told me that they were going to start stocking the yeti's, i'll have to go fit one to my boat. i was worried about the handles fitting within my tubes but the 120 is so tall that it shouldn't be a problem. how is the end of the month shaping up?


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## calendar16

*Had Sherpa now Tundra...*

I had the Sherpa 145qt. for a little over a year. It was a great cooler, super bomber and held ice better than any cooler I have ever owned.

My few gripes with it:

1. the handles, although they proved to be tough, they seemed like they would break when the cooler was completely full. Not the most comfortable hand grab on a cooler...rope handles are much better and more forgiving.

They are small enough that you should not have problems with them getting stuck when you lower it into the frame.

2. the drain plug since it was not recessed would rub the inner side of the tubes. I did not worry about it and just made sure to check that it was tight before lowering it into the frame. Well, I think on a Deso trip last year it finally fell out and I went without a plug. Yeti charges like $6 for pair of plugs. After spending $385 on a cooler, that extra $6 was the last of my priority at the time. I would suggest if you can to turn it around like someone said or even feed a paper clip through the plastic that is on the inside of the cooler so if it does work loose it has an "anchor" so it stays in.

I ended up selling it because it was a little too big and I wanted to modify my frame setup and the cooler was taking quite a bit of frame real estate.

I bought a Tundra 120qt. at 15% from Down River last weekend for $367 including tax...not bad compared to their suggested retail price.

Biggest differences that I like so far...

1. handles are rope with rubber hand grabs...much more comfortable than the Sherpa plastic handles...

2. drain plug is recessed...no more losing drain plugs...

3. Roughed top surface...If you step on a wet Sherpa cooler top be careful you could see your feet above your head...the Tundra surface is rough giving it a slip resistant surface...

my $0.02.

-Cal


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## riverdoghenry

*35.5"*



TakemetotheRiver said:


> OK- I'm definitely leaning toward the Yeti. How close does yours fit into your frame? The length of my cooler hold is 37" and the Sherpa is 38 at the lip and 35 at the base. I'm fine with the lip being above the frame, but I'm wondering if the handles will fit when I slide it in.


Below the lip/wide bulge it measures 35.5" wide. The lip/bulge sits above your bars. Also, there are two different handles. The first, is the black which are removable. Second, a concave under the lip/bulge. My boat is 40" wide compartment.

What size of raft? 37" seams a little short for a compartment width (tube-to-tube). Unless, you're running a paddle boat design as an oar boat.


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## TakemetotheRiver

riverdoghenry said:


> Below the lip/wide bulge it measures 35.5" wide. The lip/bulge sits above your bars. Also, there are two different handles. The first, is the black which are removable. Second, a concave under the lip/bulge. My boat is 40" wide compartment.
> 
> What size of raft? 37" seams a little short for a compartment width (tube-to-tube). Unless, you're running a paddle boat design as an oar boat.


The problem isn't width between the raft tubes, it's width between the frame tubes. My frame has about a 2 in. space between the outer cooler hold tubes and the raft tubes- presumably to hold a cooler more securely in the middle of the boat- the problem is finding a cooler big enough for week long trips that will still fit in the cooler hold. 

It's funny, virtually everyone on here has said that Yeti is the way to go, but everyone on the Utah rafters forum said not to waste the money and buy an Igloo Marine- that it's just as good. I guess I'll just have to make a decision and go with it (like finding a line).


----------



## dgosn

*coolers*

K,

Go to "goods for the woods" the huntin store by DMV, they have yeti's for pretty cheap. some are white, and some are brown. The brown ones were cheaper, and I have some high end white epoxy gelcoat you can paint it with. They were like $240 for big one(120 qt?)

I would also be torn between an Igloo marine, or nice cooler. I have an Icee Kool and a igloo marine, the Icee Kool performs better, but before i had it I had just a 120 qt Igloo, and a coleman Xtreme, with those 2 I could have cocktail ice for 7 days in summer desert temps.. Unfortunatly, my Icee - Kool is a piece of junk, it is falling apart, and they have went out of businessm or at least can be reached...

Sportsmans Warehouse also has some sweet coolers, like Yeti's but even thicker and about same price. The have close to 20 different sizes, wish I had got one of those instead of Icee Kool...

good luck

scott


----------



## riverdoghenry

TakemetotheRiver said:


> The problem isn't width between the raft tubes, it's width between the frame tubes. My frame has about a 2 in. space between the outer cooler hold tubes and the raft tubes- presumably to hold a cooler more securely in the middle of the boat- the problem is finding a cooler big enough for week long trips that will still fit in the cooler hold.
> 
> It's funny, virtually everyone on here has said that Yeti is the way to go, but everyone on the Utah rafters forum said not to waste the money and buy an Igloo Marine- that it's just as good. I guess I'll just have to make a decision and go with it (like finding a line).


Do you have pics of your frame? Also, the Roughneck Cube series may work for you better:

Cube Coolers : Ice Chest - Ice Box - Marine Cooler | Yeti Coolers

The Igloo Marine coolers are decent coolers. They will get the job done on a budget. My last few coolers were an Igloo and they got the job done. The last one was replaced, because 3 of the bottom four corners were cracked with the insulation showing through. If I could not afford a Engel or Yeti, I would only buy a Igloo Marine.

My last purchase was based on durability. After having had a few Igloo coolers over the years, I knew that a new Igloo would need to be replaced at some point. My mother's Engel coolers have outlasted all of my coolers and she uses her's every time she gets fresh food for a long remote drive home in back of a truck. I had come to the realization that I had payed just as much as my mother over the years for a few coolers and she still has hers and mine are in a landfill.

It was very hard to throw down that kind of money for a plastic box. I was able to get mine on sale last year for what two Igloo Marines would cost. I just hoped I was paying more up front to save in the long haul.


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## TakemetotheRiver

The space behind the front deck is the cooler hold. The black straps go over the top of the cooler. The cube coolers won't fit. I'm going to take Steve and Jim's advice and go down to Goods in the Woods and 4Corners and check it out. If I don't love the Sherpa in my frame, I will probably go with an Igloo marine. 

The thing is that I'm in the market right now because I will be car/boat camping for 6 straight weeks this summer in North Carolina and I want a good cooler to store food for at least a week at a time.


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## lhowemt

TakemetotheRiver said:


> The space behind the front deck is the cooler hold. The black straps go over the top of the cooler. The cube coolers won't fit. I'm going to take Steve and Jim's advice and go down to Goods in the Woods and 4Corners and check it out. If I don't love the Sherpa in my frame, I will probably go with an Igloo marine.
> 
> The thing is that I'm in the market right now because I will be car/boat camping for 6 straight weeks this summer in North Carolina and I want a good cooler to store food for at least a week at a time.



Shoot, can you remove those side rails inside the cooler bay and give yourself a couple of more inches? I don't get why people are so proud that they only lost 20% of their ice on a trip? To me, that sounds like overkill, especially if that product is double or more the price of one that will make a week or more easily. We had an igloo marine as our freezer cooler on the grand, didn't open it until day 15 or something, and it rocked. It was ducttaped shut, which probably helped. 

I'm torn on the question of removing the air. I don't see it as a big advantage, mostly because you're going to pull the warm air that is up on the top, down by the ice and out the drain plug. I say let the thing stratify and leave the ice and cold air down there alone. But I wouldn't bet my life on it.


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## TakemetotheRiver

lhowemt said:


> Shoot, can you remove those side rails inside the cooler bay and give yourself a couple of more inches?


Not really because it's a breakdown frame and those side rails are connected to and stabilize the front part of the frame.


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## lhowemt

TakemetotheRiver said:


> The space behind the front deck is the cooler hold. The black straps go over the top of the cooler. The cube coolers won't fit. I'm going to take Steve and Jim's advice and go down to Goods in the Woods and 4Corners and check it out. If I don't love the Sherpa in my frame, I will probably go with an Igloo marine.
> 
> The thing is that I'm in the market right now because I will be car/boat camping for 6 straight weeks this summer in North Carolina and I want a good cooler to store food for at least a week at a time.



Shoot, can you remove those side rails inside the cooler bay and give yourself a couple of more inches? I don't get why people are so proud that they only lost 20% of their ice on a trip? To me, that sounds like overkill, especially if that product is double or more the price of one that will make a week or more easily. We had an igloo marine as our freezer cooler on the grand, didn't open it until day 15 or something, and it rocked. It was ducttaped shut, which probably helped. 

I'm torn on the question of removing the air. I don't see it as a big advantage, mostly because you're going to pull the warm air that is up on the top, down by the ice and out the drain plug. I say let the thing stratify and leave the ice and cold air down there alone. But I wouldn't bet my life on it.


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## Mr Beaver

As a mechanical engineer I have enjoyed reading this thread, however, some of the more technical comments about "which cooler is better" are not actually correct.

The weight/density of the cooler really does not matter, for example I could build a cooler sized box out of 2" steel plate and it would be damn hot inside if I left it out in the sun, because steel is a good conductor.

The link HowStuffWorks "How Thermoses (Vacuum Flasks) Work" has a good description of the 3 different types of heat transfer and you can see how this applies to coolers as well.

Also, good cooler design walks a fine line between capacity and insulation thickness. You could make a more efficient cooler by having 4 inch thick walls, but it would not carry much and would not be 2 times more effective as a cooler with 2 inch walls.

I would be really surprised if the insulating materials on a yeti where much different than a higher end coleman. Maybe, but my guess is that the price difference comes down to the hardware: drain type, better hinges, sealed lid, more durable shell, etc.


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## riverdoghenry

lhowemt said:


> I don't get why people are so proud that they only lost 20% of their ice on a trip? To me, that sounds like overkill, especially if that product is double or more the price of one that will make a week or more easily.


I've only shared my experience with having owned a Yeti to another requesting my impression as a owner. I don't believe, I've come across as "So Proud" of my ice retention. I was just relating how it performed and in what the results were in different conditions. If you were to read all of my posts, you would see that my decision to purchase a Yeti was based solely on durability after having replaced a few marine coolers over the years. My purchase was in hopes of a long-term investment and nothing to do with ice retention. You'll also read in my posts that my marine coolers always got the job done (ice retention). Again, I purchased the Yeti for about the cost of two marine coolers on sale, but feeling/hoping that I would get more user days per dollar in the long haul.


----------



## Snowhere

The other side to the 'proud of ice retention' debate is if a cooler keeps the ice better, you can get away with less ice leaving more room for beer/food. For those of us that might do more 1-5 day trips as opposed to 21 day trips, getting by with one block of ice rather then two, will free up a lot of room for the goods.


----------



## lhowemt

riverdoghenry said:


> I've only shared my experience with having owned a Yeti to another requesting my impression as a owner. I don't believe, I've come across as "So Proud" of my ice retention. I was just relating how it performed and in what the results were in different conditions. If you were to read all of my posts, you would see that my decision to purchase a Yeti was based solely on durability after having replaced a few marine coolers over the years. My purchase was in hopes of a long-term investment and nothing to do with ice retention. You'll also read in my posts that my marine coolers always got the job done (ice retention). Again, I purchased the Yeti for about the cost of two marine coolers on sale, but feeling/hoping that I would get more user days per dollar in the long haul.


Whoa now! Sorry you took it that way, I didn't mean it personally. There have been a LOT of discussions on MANY forums over the years about which cooler to buy, I wasn't commenting just on your statement, or just on you. And no, I'm not going to read all your posts! I don't have a need to have half the cooler filled with ice at the end of the trip, and wouldn't spend extra money for that benefit. Durability is a good thing too, the lid of the igloo is pretty weak, and really needs a board on it to be stood on without making horrible noises like the insulation is cracking inside. Good thing I have one on it! Many reasons, many ideas, we all throw them out and each person decides what fits their specific needs. That's another thing K might want to think about with her choice, as it's likely it will be in the line of traffic.

I don't know the specifics of which insulator each cooler uses, but I know I have a cheap coleman "xtreme" which is super thick (hence limited space inside) but isn't as good as the marine. I wager that different insulators are used, but have no idea if the Yeti's of the world use anything different than the Igloo's.


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## Osprey

not sure we beat the dead horse long enough so I needed to jump back in and share my good Yeti customer service experience this week. So I got to looking at my cooler lid the other day and upon close inspection it appeared that the top front corners had warped ever so slightly. So I got a battery powered lamp and placed it in the cooler in a dark room to see if the seal was still touching. If light can get through the seal so can cold air right? Yep, seeing just a bit leak through there and for the money I think it should be perfect. Plus I want to handle any issues before the warranty is up.

So I email Yeti, get a return number but fedex wants like 50+ bucks to ship based on dimensional weight. So I email Yeti back saying I'm not sure it's worth it and they offer to send me a shipping label based on the rate they get, $25. So cool, off I ship the cooler in a giant box and then I get a call today. Not only are they replacing the lid but giving me a whole new cooler. Awesome! He said since I bought mine they have improved the plastic in the lid to prevent warpage, improved the latches and seals, and the new one will havw a textured lid. Pretty freakin great I think. Nice to see a company standing behind their products with zero hassle. Kudos Yeti!

And yes, my cooler is better than yours ;-) haha. I agree with Snowhere, once I figured how much less ice I lost, I started using a lot less leaving more room for even more food.


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## Osprey

for some reason I couldn't edit my above post. looking at it I was probably the one that was super "proud of my ice retention" haha but of course, that is the purpose of a cooler! If you don't want to spend the money on that type of cooler cool, we all know some of the other brands will be able to get the job done with some TLC that a Yeti doesn't need (duct tape the lid; plywood reinforcement, etc) But a few of us have the means and like to have the best gear in certain categories, then why keep jumping in to disparage a product you haven't even used just since it's not worth it to you? I for one invite a bit of "overkill" on the performance of my cooler and don't mind spending the money for it. But I don't go into Avon threads saying that my Vanguard is just as good because they both float, because that is just not the case.


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## riojedi

Don't be so fast to bash the durability of the "cheaper" coolers. I've used the same Rubermaid 115 since 1990 and haven't need to repair anything. Just take care of your stuff and rafting becomes a lot less expensive.


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## riverdoghenry

*$39 Igloo Marine Costco*

I was at Costco this morning and they have the 70 quart Igloo Marine coolers for $39. It's this one:

http://www.igloo-store.com/product_detail.asp?T1=IGL+MARINE+72&HDR=marineseries


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## Chip

Good cooler (although too small for some). Shocking great price. I've used one for several years. Seals pretty well (I strap the lid down) and holds ice for 5-6 days under normal circumstances. 

Onliest problem is that the handle (on a plastic bracket with 2 self-drill screws) tends to pull off, especially if you horse it around when full and unload it from the boat regularly. I had to reattach one of the handles on mine several times. 

The optional snap-on pad makes a comfy seat (sez the Wolf Goddess who sat on one for eight days).


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## moetown

*Icee Kool*

I just pulled a trip out at South Cove after 20 days and 105 degree temps and they still had Ice in our Icee Kools(Galaxy Cooler). There are several reasons I like the Galaxy Cooler, and for these reasons can't buy anything else. 
1) We abuse our coolers to the max. Freeze thaw, bump, grind. After two years they are still going, except for the one that was rapped on Bedrock for two days but we just lost the lid. The cooler bottom was fine. There's been a bubble here and there. Doesn't bother us a bit. With the type of abuse we put them through they should be shattered. I don't even attempt to fix it. It's a waste of time, and works fine. FUNCTION BEFORE FASHION.
2) The skids on the bottom of the icee kools allows us to slide them wherever we need to go. And we go alot of places. Down driveways, across frames. Down diamond plate trucks and trailers. Because we freeze the coolers until there's a block 51" X 10" X 17" approx they weigh 200+ lbs. I am amazed they have split open yet. Not one.
3) Size. The 205 goes nearly tube to tube on an 18" boat. Maximum storage for 16-30 day trips, and less danger zones on our frames to step into.
4) Price. On all the high end coolers I think they are all right there on quality. R-value high, etc. But Galaxy Coolers are less expensive and better for commercial abuse and exceptionally better for the reasons above.
5) Small business. I like supporting small business. I would much rather see a number of small business's with a core group of employees than 1 mega business(Sams) supporting 100 people working for 1$/hour. 



Chip said:


> Good cooler (although too small for some). Shocking great price. I've used one for several years. Seals pretty well (I strap the lid down) and holds ice for 5-6 days under normal circumstances.
> 
> Onliest problem is that the handle (on a plastic bracket with 2 self-drill screws) tends to pull off, especially if you horse it around when full and unload it from the boat regularly. I had to reattach one of the handles on mine several times.
> 
> The optional snap-on pad makes a comfy seat (sez the Wolf Goddess who sat on one for eight days).


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## riverdoghenry

*Icee Kool Went Under*

I remember reading recently that Icee Kool went out of business. To confirm before I posted, I called both numbers listed on their website, and the numbers were no longer in service.

Galaxy Coolers - THE TOUGHEST, COLDEST ICEBOX IN THE WORLD!



moetown said:


> I just pulled a trip out at South Cove after 20 days and 105 degree temps and they still had Ice in our Icee Kools(Galaxy Cooler). There are several reasons I like the Galaxy Cooler, and for these reasons can't buy anything else.
> 1) We abuse our coolers to the max. Freeze thaw, bump, grind. After two years they are still going, except for the one that was rapped on Bedrock for two days but we just lost the lid. The cooler bottom was fine. There's been a bubble here and there. Doesn't bother us a bit. With the type of abuse we put them through they should be shattered. I don't even attempt to fix it. It's a waste of time, and works fine. FUNCTION BEFORE FASHION.
> 2) The skids on the bottom of the icee kools allows us to slide them wherever we need to go. And we go alot of places. Down driveways, across frames. Down diamond plate trucks and trailers. Because we freeze the coolers until there's a block 51" X 10" X 17" approx they weigh 200+ lbs. I am amazed they have split open yet. Not one.
> 3) Size. The 205 goes nearly tube to tube on an 18" boat. Maximum storage for 16-30 day trips, and less danger zones on our frames to step into.
> 4) Price. On all the high end coolers I think they are all right there on quality. R-value high, etc. But Galaxy Coolers are less expensive and better for commercial abuse and exceptionally better for the reasons above.
> 5) Small business. I like supporting small business. I would much rather see a number of small business's with a core group of employees than 1 mega business(Sams) supporting 100 people working for 1$/hour.


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## GalaxyCoolers

*Creation of a Galaxy*

Well Galaxy isn't completely gone and just may have some good news for those of you that have stuck it out defending the first high end cooler in whitewater. We have had a tough time up against deep pockets like yeti and engel but just may pull out of it yet. Please feel free to jump in and ask away. I know we have the best. I know everything about these coolers from the R value of Polyethylene to exactly why our Polyurethane is better. I hope those that read this are glad to hear a small company with the dream of making the best coolers in the world is still alive. You can still reach us via email from the website and will have new numbers posted soon. Aloha


----------



## pbowman

*Old thread, but. . .*

was just looking at this for info on coolers. i bought the igloo marine 70 referenced by riverdoghenry at costco, and it is NOT the same as the igloo marine 72 shown in the link on his post or for sale on the NRS website at a much higher price. the costco version does not have a latch on the front, and does not have the same lid design (no fish measuring ruler in the costco version, and the costco lid appears thinner than shown in the igloo/NRS web pictures). i am still a fair amount shy of 300 lbs (the claimed lid support weight), but the lid on the costco version one creaks, sags, and bends substantially when i sit on it even when strapped into my frame with compression on the lid. apparently there are a couple versions of the igloo marine line, and the costco version seems to be much less sturdy thus allowing for the significantly lower price.

i am going to try the igloo marine 54 next to see how it compares to the costco version 70, both are about the same price and i just need a small cooler for my small raft. thought i had found a killer deal at costco, but just wanted to share my findings. later.


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## dgosn

GalaxyCoolers said:


> Well Galaxy isn't completely gone and just may have some good news for those of you that have stuck it out defending the first high end cooler in whitewater. We have had a tough time up against deep pockets like yeti and engel but just may pull out of it yet. Please feel free to jump in and ask away. I know we have the best. I know everything about these coolers from the R value of Polyethylene to exactly why our Polyurethane is better. I hope those that read this are glad to hear a small company with the dream of making the best coolers in the world is still alive. You can still reach us via email from the website and will have new numbers posted soon. Aloha


I will now have to eat crow and apologize for disparaging remarks I made about Icee-Kool/Galazy coolers.

I had a 165qt cooler that worked well, but the latches didnt work right, meaning that the seal was not the greatest. After posting this info several months ago Marty (Galazy Coolers) contacted me personally. He offered to look at the cooler and fix it. I was leaving for ID right before he called. He explained that I had an early version of the cooler, and he had come up with a fix. He fixed it in a timely fashion, added a new gasket and replaced the latches. Before the fix the 165 qt performed fairly well, not exactly what I had hoped but well enough. After fixing everything and replacing latches the cooler is now airtight and I would not hesitate relying on it to keep ice for 21 days in any environment, including a flipped raft. The seal is bomber! I had put 8 blocks of ice in it on the 30th, and when I got off the river on the 12th all 8 blocks were intact and probably only lost about 40% of the weight.

I also saw the new models that Galaxy is about to offer, they look great, and I cant wait until I can justify buying one of these as well. I was also pleased to see that a local (durango) person is still trying to make a go against large companies like Engle and Yeti.

In short I would rather have a new Galazy over a yeti or Engle cooler, better latches and helping a local business.

Other replies are correct about Igloo Marines, there seems to be several types, friends have some that perform great, while some dont perform any better than Coleman Extremes from Wally World....

scott


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## grandyoso

*Thwarts/Galaxy*

Does anybody else have experience with the Galaxy coolers?

I am in the market for a new cooler because got a new boat this spring. I was looking for something around 44 inches wide because the opening is 45. I have always thought your cooler and drybox act as your thwarts. What if those do not touch either side of the boat? Is this a problem? I thought about getting a water jug or something and shoving it in the space. Any thoughts?


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## joecoolives

TakemetotheRiver said:


> Jim- these are the two I'm looking at. The Engel is 115qt and 36 in. in length. The Yeti Sherpa is 120qt and 36in. in length. Thanks for the tip about the plug- that may be a deciding factor. The only thing is that cascade outfitters is the only site I found that has the 120qt with 36in.- the rest say 38.75?
> 
> Ultra Cool Fishing Coolers, Super Insulated Fish Coolers from alltackle.com
> 
> https://www.cascadeoutfitters.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/product.display/product_id/2050/index.cfm


 the measurement might be the top dimension. the sherpa is wider at the top then the bottom. I have a 100 qt. and was 7 days on deso in june ice lasted till the last day and I had the food for all 7 of us. I would consider the 120 qt sherpa it has the same footprint but is 3 inches taller(more ice)


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## cataraftgirl

*My Experience*

I own both a 72 qt. Marine Igloo, and a 70 qt. Yeti Sherpa. I have taken both on summer Main Salmon trips, with the same temps / packing technique/ cooler management. I saw no real difference in performance between the two. I was really disappointed that the Yeti didn't out perform my 10 year old Igloo for the money I spent. The Yeti is tough & well made, but it weighs a ton, almost double what the Igloo weighs. At this point, I'll probably sell the Yeti and get a new Marine Igloo. 
KJ


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## golson

*Small cooler management*

I have a Yeti Sherpa 25 qt -- I'm a canoeist, and that's the size that fits. I've tried standard approaches -- (1) using a freezer, freezing a bottom layer for ice; (2) freezing water containers and then filling spaces with water and freezing; (3) using block ice and cubes to fill.

All goods packed in cooler frozen or refrigerated. Only open cooler in evening, morning. Drape with wet towel during the day.

Ice is gone by day 5.

I'm going to experiment with dry ice, but I'm beginning to feel the cooler may be too small to expect better.

Has anyone had better results?


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## okieboater

that is an awfully small chunk of ice. I am surprised that it lasted 5 days.

you are managing the cooler well, so my guess is you need a bigger cooler.

I routinely get 3 blocks of Safeway Ice last 7 days maybe 8 days if I manage the cooler well. This is in a 125 qt cooler.

check the up scale coolers for different sizes. seems like galaxy and others are offering cube shaped coolers that may work for you.


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## GalaxyCoolers

You are correct. With all of the high end coolers ice retention has a limit when you consider how much cold mass you can actually start with. You could get longer results but only if you started with more ice then you would not have room for your good, Not much use in that. The Galaxy Cooler 60 cube can work nicely in a canoe. Not too high, not too wide and can keep food and drink cold for more then 5 days. You can fit 4 blocks in there with a little chiseling and have cold for close to ten days. Check out the sizes at Galaxy Coolers - THE TOUGHEST, COLDEST ICEBOX IN THE WORLD! and let me know if I can be of assistance. Thank you Marty from Galaxy


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## lhowemt

I was kind of hit in the gut to see a thread started by Tiggy bumped up to the top again. Such a sad reminder of all the people, and Buzzard friends, we've lost this year. Be safe out there. Take a rescue class, practice your throw bag skills, and read a rescue book for a refresher. The "River Rescue" book by Slim Ray and Les Bechdel is out with a new 4th edition.


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## Snowhere

lhowemt said:


> I was kind of hit in the gut to see a thread started by Tiggy bumped up to the top again.


I am sure Tiggy would of wanted the thread that he started to continue to help people with their raft/kayak/canoe gear. Think of it as a tribute to Tiggy.

Where does one find that foil faced bubble wrap? I am headed up to the plains of Wyoming for a 5 day camping trip and figured I would experiment with my cooler management. I can fit a 52quart cooler in my chest freezer, so I have it in there with 5" of water on the bottom become one good sized block. Now to get some foil faced bubble wrap to place on the ice and I will see if I can make a cheap cooler keep ice for 5 days!


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## eastcreek

foil bubble wrap is at home depot, comes in different widths, different places but last time over by the insulation.
We make and reuse boxes for inside our coolers separating frozen stuff and dry ice and less cold (lettuce etc) and colder stuff. Then put a layer on top and occ. between the layers
I freeze 2 liter and gallon jugs for ice. keeps things cold and on last day or so that icy water is a gift.
Freeze a milk also. 
We also wrap our 5 gallon orange drink cooler on the outside. 

last trip on the san juan, we had solid frozen meat etc 6 days after leaving oregon and had to thaw dinner on day 6
The bubble wrap seems to help


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## ridecats

To confirm/corroborate, I just dropped about $10 on an roll that is 2 feet by 10 feet, at Home Depot. The brand was Reflectix, www.reflectixinc.com, and the label shows many uses including lining coolers. Larger rolls are available as well, for more dough of course.


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## Chip

Snowhere said:


> Where does one find that foil faced bubble wrap?


Home Depot-type stores, ACE Hardware, Tru-Value: lots of places. A common name is Reflectix Insulation. I bought a 25 ft. roll, 24 inches wide. 

Besides the cooler blanket you can cut long pieces to use under ThermaRest pads for snow camping. It keeps you warmer and also prevents melting out a hollow in the snow. 

I also made a reflective screen for my workspace, to bounce back the radiant heat. Besides using it as insulation.

If you have one of those windshield heat reflectors that you're not using, you can cut that to fit and not have to buy anything.


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## Snowhere

We just got back from a 6 day trip to Wyoming. I tested my ability to make a cheap ass igloo cooler I bought 20 years ago with no latch and big metal hinges I screwed into the foam with wood screws, keep ice. I also used a $40 Coleman 70quart cooler with very little insulation. 

I placed a single store bought block of ice in the smaller Igloo cooler with 5lbs of dry ice. I placed the foil lined bubble wrap over the ice and then filled the cooler with beer. The Coleman had 3 milk jugs frozen + 5lbs of dry ice. Bubble wrap covered that ice too and then I filled the cooler with our food. I then placed 2 layers of the bubble wrap over the top of the contents within the coolers. 

After 5 days out camping, I still had about 1/2 the block of ice in my beer cooler, I did not bother draining the water as it was keeping the beer throughout the cooler cold. In the Coleman cooler, the milk jugs still had 80-90% ice. In the scheme of things, it was not as hot as it could of been. Just the same, just simple foil lined bubble wrap with a small amount of dry ice worked great. The bubble wrap kept things above from freezing from the dry ice and kept the jugs and block from melting as fast. The bubble wrap at the top much improved the coolers insulation and contributed to keeping ice. 

I feel confident I can make a low end cooler keep ice for a week or two. I did not even use duck tape nor really worried about opening and closing the cooler often. With more disciplined cooler management, a couple of weeks is possible. Eventually I will get a bomber cooler, but for now, the cheaper ones will do just fine.


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## cataraftgirl

*To drain or not to drain ......that is the question???*

Since we're on the subject of coolers & cooler management technique, here's my burning question. Is it better to drain the cold ice melt water out of the cooler during your trip or not??? I have this discussion/ fist fight with my rafting friend all the time. I'm a drainer, he's a non-drainer. He uses block ice (plastic bag removed) and then fills in with loose ice. After a few days, the "cooler soup" begins to accumulate in the bottom of the cooler and it drives me nuts.
Case in point - just returned from a Main Salmon trip on Sunday. When we stopped at Buckskin's, I reloaded with ice, and drained the ice melt water. He freaked. Said I was crazy for draining the cold water.
What's the opinion of the Buzzards on this touchy subject?
I think for my next trip I'm going to try the frozen water jugs & foil bubble wrap ideas. Just don't like my food floating in the cooler.
Thanks - Cat Girl


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## kayakfreakus

cataraftgirl said:


> Since we're on the subject of coolers & cooler management technique, here's my burning question. Is it better to drain the cold ice melt water out of the cooler during your trip or not???
> Thanks - Cat Girl



Even has pictures and a science experiment - awesome:

http://www.mountainbuzz.com/forums/f15/cooler-meltwater-to-drain-or-not-to-drain-26991.html

:mrgreen:


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## TakemetotheRiver

cataraftgirl said:


> Since we're on the subject of coolers & cooler management technique, here's my burning question. Is it better to drain the cold ice melt water out of the cooler during your trip or not??? I have this discussion/ fist fight with my rafting friend all the time. I'm a drainer, he's a non-drainer. He uses block ice (plastic bag removed) and then fills in with loose ice. After a few days, the "cooler soup" begins to accumulate in the bottom of the cooler and it drives me nuts.
> Case in point - just returned from a Main Salmon trip on Sunday. When we stopped at Buckskin's, I reloaded with ice, and drained the ice melt water. He freaked. Said I was crazy for draining the cold water.
> What's the opinion of the Buzzards on this touchy subject?
> I think for my next trip I'm going to try the frozen water jugs & foil bubble wrap ideas. Just don't like my food floating in the cooler.
> Thanks - Cat Girl


Drain the meltwater. It conducts heat faster, therefore melting your remaining ice faster. 

I've been following a similar heated debate on Utahrafters covering everything from cooler management to cost to whether hot water freezes faster than cold water to the thermodynamic properties of water as the only substance which expands when frozen- or something like that. 

It's fascinating- I can't add the link because I can't access google groups at work (firewall), but you should be able to find it if you are interested.


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## JohnsMom

It has been our experience that the water will only help the ice to melt faster and ruin anything that touches it - with the exception of beer cans! We drain it as fast as we can! But, we've had several methods that seem to work well with little or no puddles . . .
1st experiement . . .
2 liter soda bottles filled but with a little water squirted out at the end to account for expansion - but don't let the air back in! Milk jugs would work well too depending on the shape of your cooler.
2nd experiment . . .
2 coolers. Big cooler with produce and no ice just extra blue foam under the lid. INSIDE that cooler a small cooler with dry ice, meat, and cheese. Worked well for a 4 day trip on the San Juan in June
3rd experiment . . .
Our friend was on a 40 day trip and froze his entire cooler in layers. Everything in ziploc freezer bags and layered as he needed them and froze a whole yeti cooler solid in a resturant freezer... He said that it was working well until he got drunk and left the cooler open . . .so, we really can't tell, but it SOUNDS cool!
4th....
A thick layer of beer in cans on the bottom with a block of ice, the cans keep the water away from the food - good for short trips- the beer seems to always run out before the food.

Also, on longer trips, we avoid meat and cheese in place of shelf stable produces like silken tofu and some produce and olive oil instead of butter. My fave river breakfast is tofu scrable in a tortilla.
-js


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## GalaxyCoolers

Well, Now here's something worth talking about. I want to technical insight but I think it is truly a choice of if you like cooler soup or not. Cooler soup is nasty. So the first thing you need to do is get a Galaxy Cooler, they are the best and guaranteed your ice will never melt....., okay just kidding but they are the best and you don't need bubble wrap. Actually what I think is the friction of moving water in the environment of rafting makes the ice melt faster. If your sitting still not draining it is better. I have been told air will transfer the hot temps of the outside world to ice faster but I also know less hot air in the cooler when you do open it is better. I could go on but the biggest hot opinion I have is that, milk jugs are made out of polyethylene, the same thing as high-end coolers like, you guessed it Galaxy Coolers. One of the reasons we use PE is because it actually has an R-value which means it insulates. So in reality if you have frozen water in a milk jug it is insulating the frozen energy to its self and not out into the cooler. I know hundreds if not thousands of people that live by the format of frozen milk jugs, for the benefit of no cooler soup, economics and the water at the end. Scientifically it can not be better for long term ice retention. The last thing that has always forced me to give up my stance of no draining is that all river companies drain. They say it is because it works better but I think it is cooler soup. Friction on ice must be the culprit. Who would of thought a simple serene trip down the river would cause such an intense intellectual discussion.


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## Chip

There's another thread on whether to drain in the Gear Talk section, where I posted some of the following:

The reason coolers work is that the state change (solid to liquid) takes 80 times more energy than simply raising the temperature one degree. The resistance of things to state change (solid to liquid, liquid to vapor) is known as the latent heat of fusion. 

Meltwater (above 32°F) in contact with the ice is a much more efficient means of heat transfer than chilled air. So, while the water _is_ cold, relatively speaking, it also disperses the coldness of the ice more quickly, to the chest and to the hot air. 

On a well-supported trip, having different coolers for beer and food is a good idea. Especially if you open the cooler many times a day for a cold one. Water does transfer chill to beers effectively (as you lose your ice block faster). So you might drain your ice cooler into a bucket and pour the cold water in your beer cooler. (I don't put beer in the cooler— a drag bag keeps it cold enough for me, especially on the Grand Canyon). 

On a self-support Pack Cat trip down Deso in August, temps over 100°F. I rigged a 25 qt. Igloo Marine box solely to ice the G & T at each night's camp. Filled it with water (leaving a few inches headroom, froze it in a chest freezer, then taped it shut for the drive. Got some dry ice in Roosevelt and added it, then taped the lid down again. Kept a wet towel over it on the river. Drained morning and night. Opened once a day for happy hour (with an ice pick handy). 

We had ice for drinks six nights out of seven.


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## JohnsMom

Okay, so because this is such a fun debate, I decided to make and experiment . . .
3 pint glasses on my stove (that hasn't been used since last night)
5 ice cubes of similar sizes
All Ice was added @ noon
In glass ...
#1 a plastic straw to periotically drink the water out of the bottom
#2 control - this glass just sat there
#3 a wooden chop-stick to periotically stir the ice 
Now that I think of it maybe I should have had a four to stir and drain but ya'll can do that if you have some spare time...

Every hour we took pictures of what was going on.. the results are
at 3 pm the first cup of ice was gone! Any guesses?
#3 stir cup
in second place cup #2
And in FIRST #1 the Drained Cup! And there are the pics if you don't believe me! Check out My User Album . . . "Cooler /Ice Experiment"
-JS


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## greenwater780

*Drain it!*

The specific heat capacity of water is greater than air. It takes more energy for the ice to keep the water cold than it does to keep the air cold. The water has a greater thermal mass and therefor causes the ice to equalize it's temperature (i.e. melt) sooner. Whew, this is too much science on only one cup of coffee!


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## Chip

greenwater780 said:


> The specific heat capacity of water is greater than air. It takes more energy for the ice to keep the water cold than it does to keep the air cold. The water has a greater thermal mass and therefor causes the ice to equalize it's temperature (i.e. melt) sooner. Whew, this is too much science on only one cup of coffee!


Yay!!! Good explanation. I love applied physics!


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## cataraftgirl

*Thanks*

Thanks to everyone for their advice on draining coolers. Now I have some scientific ammo to use when my rafting friend freaks out as I drain the "cooler soup." I have always double bagged everything in my cooler, but have suffered from the occasional ziplock seal failure, thus ruining my food. I will definitely try the foil bubble wrap, and perhaps the frozen milk/water jugs. I like the idea of draining the meltwater into a bucket to cool beverages. A bit labor intensive, but perhaps worth it ...... put that meltwater to work, instead of just dumping it in the river. Since I row a small Cat, with a smaller (72 qt) cooler, I'm often the "lunch boat." My cooler gets opened daily, at the worst time of day. Anything I can do to maximize my ice retention will help.
Thanks again
KJ - The Cat Girl


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## lhowemt

Chip, as I find NEVERENDING uses for polymax boating. I have one more. Cooler soup-evader. We're going car camping this weekend, so the cooler will often be where it isn't drainable (in camper/van). I took some pieces of polymax and put them in the bottom of the cooler, next to the ice blocks. That half inch to inch of soup that inevitably forms before you can drain it won't get to our food this time!

I also used milk crates for beverages on the Main Salmon. The crates formed a key spot of the dog pile in the stern, so I made polymax lids so no matter how much stuff I had in them, the girls had a nice flat spot. It also contained the beverages in the crates. Never-ending uses!


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## restrac2000

*Cooler Management*

I though I understood specific heat but now I am confused...

What I thought: Water has a high specific heat and is slower to change. Therefor not draining the water slows down the melting process of the ice.

What I hear: Water has a high specific heat and therefore increases the melting of the ice. 

A couple other options for cooler management that I have found helpful (never actually have done much with draining etc, always found it secondary to other concerns).

1) I use 2-2.5 refillable water jugs that you can find by most water stations at grocery stores or Walmart. I freeze these about 2/3 full in a deep freezer at home several days before the trip. This keeps water contained as it melts which prevents food contamination as well as provides drinking (cold) near the end of the trip. 

2) Stage coolers. On our last Deso trip we had the 1st half cooler and the 2nd half cooler. There wasn't much in the way of perishable food in the 2nd half cooler but we transferred half/half, when it was opened. It was closed, sealed with a cam strap, covered with a burlap cloth that was continually drenched, covered with a Paco at all times when in the sun and further strapped with 2 more cam straps. it was filled with aforementioned ice containers, ice from every frozen tuperware container I could find, and cubed ice boat as close to the put-in as possible. When we opened it on day 4 or 5 it still had 95% of the cubed ice, all the frozen containers, and very little water at the bottom. It worked much better than I would have expected. We had on day ten after the cooler sat in our garage for several days.

3) A small beer cooler is a must during summer floats like Deso when the water is not cold enough to keep beer cold. We had cocktail ice and cold beer the entire trip without much effort. We transfered ice to beer cooler on day four and were fine. 

4) Everything I have read proves that most of the top end coolers perform the same on 7-10 day trips, may be a different story on something like the summer GC. My only complaint with my Igloo 94 quart is that the closure and joints are cheap. That said I have a hard time believing it is worth upgrading another $200 for a comparable size rotomolded cooler. Not financially sound enough of idea for my budget. The IceeKools that we have had on our trip often had the same amount of ice by the end but struggled to cool all the empty space. 

5) Never have had much luck with dry ice. Tried it on the Salmon and it was dissappointing, gone by day 3. If it was less expensive it might make sense but I can't justify bringing enough to work for 7-10 day trips.

6) The melted swamp water is a health concern for me on river trips. Instead of draining, most of the time, i have started using a vaccuum sealer for just about everything (especially meat, butter). I only buy eggs in styrofoam containers when they are to be placed in the cooler. I also freeze all the food I can in order to slow the thawing process.

The never ending experiment will continue no less, we all seem to get slightly different results depending on brand and care. Best of luck with your set-up.

Phillip


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## Chip

lhowemt said:


> Chip, as I find NEVERENDING uses for polymax. Never-ending uses!


A PolyMax addiction. Hmmm. 

I have a new use. I strap a piece to my face and watch movies through it. Gives everything that illicit, Tarantino-creepy feel. 

cool


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## Droboat

*Orange Juice Jugs*

Basic physics on the thread is fine and sound, but as applied to jugs filled with ice, it poses a different question.

The heat exchange between the melt water and the air in the cooler is interrupted by the jug material itself and the lack of air contact with the melt water and the beloved ice. The heating of the melt water *and* the melting of the ice are therefore slowed, by some degree, due to the physical barrier *and* heat exchange properties of the jugs. 

May not be enough to match the longevity of the maniacally drained cooler, but might be close enough so that the inevitable opening of the cooler during maintenance by anyone except the most OCD cooler nazi might nullify any gains. 

Most important, the jugs might free up more time to enjoy the cold beer.


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## Wadeinthewater

restrac2000 said:


> What I hear: Water has a high specific heat and therefore increases the melting of the ice.


What I hear is that water circulates heat from the shell of cooler to the ice more efficiently than air does.

I couldn't agree more with points 1-6, especially burlap and a sleeping pad. They make a big difference.


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## Chip

Droboat said:


> The heat exchange between the melt water and the air in the cooler is interrupted by the jug material itself and the lack of air contact with the melt water and the beloved ice. The heating of the melt water *and* the melting of the ice are therefore slowed, by some degree, due to the physical barrier *and* heat exchange properties of the jugs.


I tried freezing water jugs on our last Deso trip. The ice in the jugs seemed to be melting fast, so I started draining the water from the jugs into our jerrycans, which slowed the melt somewhat. But we still lost ice more quickly than from a solid block in a drained cooler. 

That is, splitting the water-ice into smaller subsystems doesn't alter the physical equation. What matters are the relative volumes of meltwater and ice, and the area of contact between ice and water (which, by confining the water, a jug tends to increase). 

Here's an experiment: freeze water in two identical containers, without hollow handles (e.g. 2-liter soda bottles). Cut the plastic away from one ice block. Place both in a cooler, leaving it closed. Drain it as you would on a trip, 2-3 times per day. Open after two days and compare, then at regular intervals until all the ice has melted.


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## Droboat

"Here's an experiment: freeze water in two identical containers, without hollow handles (e.g. 2-liter soda bottles). Cut the plastic away from one ice block. Place both in a cooler, leaving it closed. Drain it as you would on a trip, 2-3 times per day. Open after two days and compare, then at regular intervals until all the ice has melted."

Convincing sounding physics and sounds like a good experiment. 

Maybe we could pass the hat to employ a couple of unemployed raft guides to run a series of ice experiments until their metamorphosis into a liftie in November. Even full time, couldn't cost much.


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## Chip

Put two jugs in the freezer this afternoon. I'll do phase B and stick 'em in a chilly bin tomorrow morning. 

We shall see. . .


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## Faucet Butt

*Cooler?*

After reading through this tread and having a few good chuckles about the extensive analysis of all this, here is what I have to say. What do companies who operate down in the Grand use? This is a great testing ground for coolers and all kinds of gear in HOT weather. When I worked down in the Grand we used Icee-Cool coolers (Galaxy). Why? for the heavy duty skids on the bottom, super durable hardware, high end insulation, durability. A HUGE factor is of course, ICE. City Market ice sucks-half of it is air. Ideally, one should make his or her own ice-this is common practice with outfitters running on the Grand. As mentioned in this thread, the ideal way to prep a cooler for maximum ice retention is to pour water into the puppy, freeze it, pack everything in it while in the luxurious walk-in freezer, and as the ice melts, drain it. Some people I know drill a small hole into the drain plug so the cooler self drains-eliminating the icy-bath syndrome. You should buy a Galaxy cooler. They're reasonably priced, insulate just as any high end cooler would, and you'd be supporting a river-oriented cooler company that definitely has your best interests in mind. Also, go to the local fu-fu coffee house and get some heavy duty burlap bags. Keep them wet and on top of your cooler to aid in keeping it cool-they work really well for this. Cooler management is KEY.


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## Chip

Faucet Butt said:


> Get some heavy duty burlap bags. Keep them wet and on top of your cooler to aid in keeping it cool-they work really well for this. Cooler management is KEY.


I take ratty old towels, which I've got— no need to bother the folks at the coffeehouse. 

Anyhow, with good solid ice and evaporative cooling on the outside, you're making two-fold use of that latent heat of fusion/state change stuff. The ice in the cooler takes 80 cal/g of heat to melt and the water in the towel takes 80 cal/g of heat to vaporize. 

Just for reference, to raise the temperature of a gram of water by 1°C takes 1 calorie. So that 160 cal/g double bump really helps keep things cool.


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## cataraftgirl

*Vacuum*

Someone mentioned using a vaccum sealer for their food. I tried those new Ziploc Vacuum bags on the Main Salmon a few weeks ago and they worked great. They are heavy duty freezer Ziplocs that come with a pump to suck out the air. I used them for breakfast sausage, brats, and a meat & veggie mix for a dutch oven casserole. Sealed'em, sucked'em, froze'em. They maintained suction very well. Brats were sealed tight on the last night. I also like that when they are sucked down tight, they take up less room in the cooler. 
KJ


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## restrac2000

One more on the science of ice, water and specific heat...

I was talking with my close boating friend who is a professor. The other thing he mentioned that affects the "drain/no drain" decision is that the water surrounding ice should theoretically remain about the same temperature as the ice, approximately 32F. 

His recommended experiment was to take two dixie cups with ice frozen into them into a sauna. Cut holes into the bottom of one so it self drains. See which ice melts faster. 

Obviously this is a matter of temperature and fails to account for the sanitation issues that can be "swamp water" at the bottom of a cooler.


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## BoilermakerU

restrac2000 said:


> ...His recommended experiment was to take two dixie cups with ice frozen into them into a sauna. Cut holes into the bottom of one so it self drains. See which ice melts faster...


I'm guessing they'll both melt faster... They're both in the sauna, right? :mrgreen:


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## Droboat

Chip said:


> Put two jugs in the freezer this afternoon. I'll do phase B and stick 'em in a chilly bin tomorrow morning.
> 
> We shall see. . .


Did the same this am with a flip top (not pre-cooled). Opened and drained at lunch. Couldn't really tell which was melting faster. Will drain again this evening. 

One part of the experiment is confirmed. Draining cut into time which could have been used for a three martini lunch.


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## Droboat

Chip said:


> Put two jugs in the freezer this afternoon. I'll do phase B and stick 'em in a chilly bin tomorrow morning.
> 
> We shall see. . .


Did the same this am with a flip top (not pre-cooled). Opened and drained at lunch. Couldn't really tell which was melting faster. Will drain again this evening. 

One part of the experiment is confirmed. Draining cut into time which could have been used for a three martini lunch.


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## BoilermakerU

I just had an idea for another experiment. Somebody buy two coolers - a Rubbermaid Gott 150qt marine cooler and the Yeti equivalent. Put some water in the bottom of each and freeze them both. Put a couple of jugs of frozen water in each (the Gott makes this easy, it comes with the jugs). Load them both up with a few cases of beer. Fill in the spaces with as much ice as will fit. Seal one of them off, cover the other one. Put wet towels and Paco pads on one, leave them off of the other and then set them in the backyard - one in the sun and one in the shade - for a week. Drain one of them daily, leave the water in the other.

The cooler with the most ice left after a week wins. Keep that one. I'll take the losing cooler (I'll PM you my address), including the warmer beer...:mrgreen:

Honestly, how many different ways can we try to debunk the physics and collective years of experience on this site? Next thing you know, we'll be trying to prove that the rivers all flow uphill...


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## raymo

Droboat said:


> Did the same this am with a flip top (not pre-cooled). Opened and drained at lunch. Couldn't really tell which was melting faster. Will drain again this evening.
> 
> One part of the experiment is confirmed. Draining cut into time which could have been used for a three martini lunch.





Droboat said:


> Did the same this am with a flip top (not pre-cooled). Opened and drained at lunch. Couldn't really tell which was melting faster. Will drain again this evening.
> 
> One part of the experiment is confirmed. Draining cut into time which could have been used for a three martini lunch.


How many breakfast martini's, just just curious.


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## Droboat

BoilermakerU said:


> Honestly, how many different ways can we try to debunk the physics and collective years of experience on this site? Next thing you know, we'll be trying to prove that the rivers all flow uphill...


I guess it comes from watching the water from the Animas pile up in Ridges Basin. Water does run uphill in Durango, at great cost.

Breakfast martinis, not so much. Prefer a yeasty Belgian or chewy porter in the am.

Almost no ice left in the bottle this rainy evening. Considerable, perhaps half, left in the unsheathed block in the day cooler.

Physics doesn't change, but the cooler soup, laziness, having icy jugs to easily move from the main cooler to the day cooler, drunkenness, and jugged icewater on the last day says I'll be using jugs on trips that last less than 7 days. Slacking on the river is why I spent too much $$ for the IceeKool in the first place. Maybe I can make some of it back by not buying ice blocks at 2-3 bucks a pop.

I'm left with no doubt that longer trips and stretching ice requires attention to the drain. 

On the other hand, collective wisdom is wasted if it only results in dumping ice at the takout.


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## Chip

Chip said:


> Here's an experiment: freeze water in two identical containers, without hollow handles (e.g. 2-liter soda bottles). Cut the plastic away from one ice block. Place both in a cooler, leaving it closed. Drain it as you would on a trip, 2-3 times per day. Open evening and morning, to drain and inspect, until all the ice has melted.


Done. Froze water in two 32 oz. Mixed Nuts jugs. Cut one off leaving bare ice. Turns out I have two identical coolers, so I put the frozen jug with the lid tight in one and the bare ice block in the other. Opened both coolers morning and evening, draining the bare ice and checking on the sealed jug. 

The ice melted a bit more slowly in the sealed jug at first. Then when it was surrounded by water, it melted faster. After 48 hrs. the amount of ice left was virtually identical, about 2/3 cup. At 60 hours, no ice remained in either cooler: the jug held liquid water, still fairly cool. 

So the net result was the same for a sealed jug and a bare block of the same volume. But a cooler with several sealed jugs would probably keep food cool for an additional day. 

I'll give it another go with a greater volume of ice, just to see how that affects the melting rate.


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## ridecats

BoilermakerU said:


> ...
> Honestly, how many different ways can we try to debunk the physics and collective years of experience on this site? Next thing you know, we'll be trying to prove that the rivers all flow uphill...


That's just it. The collective years of experience were telling us two different things.


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## AdventureCanoe

I have a Yeti Tundra 65 and I am currently testing it against my old Igloo.




























After 32 hours the Yeti is spanking the Igloo.


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## Droboat

"Then when it was surrounded by water, it melted faster. After 48 hrs. the amount of ice left was virtually identical, about 2/3 cup."

Nice thing about doubt, it can come and go. I now have doubt about solid/draining vs jugged/drinking.

For clarity, I put both 32 oz ices in the same day cooler, at the same time.


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## dgosn

Isn't the ultimate test one of temperature. If I had 2 calibrated thermometers and identical coolers i would try. Anyone?


I am not a drainer, I put a tub (like a dish tub) on top of my ice with things that cant get wet. As an experiment(a practival one) I used a Galaxy 165, put lots of ice and cocktail in it on the 13th, went through the desert for 6 days, used most of my cubed ice for libations, opened the cooler maybe 3 times a day, and lots on day #6.

I drove home night #6, cleaned all food out of my cooler on day #7. Left the cooler sitting on my cat in the driveway (full sun exposure). When I took out the food there was 3-4 inches of water in it. On day #10, most of the ice was gone when I checked it. Yesterday on day #12 I opened again, the ice was long gone, there was about 8 inches of COLD water. Today i was out of beer during home improvement project, went to galaxy and pulled out pretty cold beers, the water was probably pretty cold. The beers werent icy cold, but quite cold still.

My theory is that i put vaccum sealed food on bottom of cooler, and block on top. the water then is around the food (which thaws faster anyway) and the ice doesnt contact so much water. The cold water can act as a large thermal mass. Air heats and colos way quicker than water, think of your tubes on a hot day.....

I read somewhere, and will look again for a a link, but water has more resitance to change than air, but the energy to heat water compared to melt ice is a new one to me. I am all about science that lets me have iced cocktails and t-bones on day 12 at dark canyon!


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## Chip

Phase 2: Testing the melt rate under conditions closer to actual cooler use.

I filled three identical jugs with water and dumped them into a cooler, then refilled them and put both jugs and cooler into a chest freezer. I also put an identical empty cooler in the freezer, for the sealed ice-jugs. 

Tomorrow morning, I'll put the jugs in one of the chilled coolers with the other one containing a solid chunk of ice. Once again, I'll open 2x per day and drain the solid chunk. I'll also check the temp and humidity inside the coolers, with a digital thermohygrometer (that I bought to test how well tents are ventilated). 

Results in 3-4 days.


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## ridecats

update on experiments underway?


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## AdventureCanoe

The Yeti was loaded on Tuesday morning with ice and beer and left in the back of my hot car next to an Igloo Ice Cube consumer cooler. The water in the Igloo was 46 degrees after two days. 

Five days later on Saturday I tossed the Yeti into my boat and went for an afternoon paddle on the Huzzah enjoying ice cold beers.

There was still a good amount of ice in the Yeti after our 4 hour float. If I had used some blocks and packed it with some better ice I'm sure it would have gone a full seven days.


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## Chip

Chip said:


> Phase 2: Testing the melt rate under conditions closer to actual cooler use. I filled three identical jugs with water and dumped them into a cooler, then refilled them and put both jugs and cooler into a chest freezer. I also put an identical empty cooler in the freezer, for the sealed ice-jugs.
> 
> Tomorrow morning, I'll put the jugs in one of the chilled coolers with the other one containing a solid chunk of ice. Once again, I'll open 2x per day and drain the solid chunk. I'll also check the temp and humidity inside the coolers, with a digital thermohygrometer (that I bought to test how well tents are ventilated). Results in 3-4 days.


Just finished. 









The coolers are on the small side, but identical. Temps were taken with a high-quality digital thermometer.

Day-by-day account:

28 Aug 0900— Coolers and frozen jugs removed from chest freezer, 4 cans of beer added to each, set outside in shade, kept closed all day. Blue cooler has 3 jugs of water poured in and frozen in a single block. Red cooler has three jugs individually frozen and sealed. The Blue cooler was drained about 0700 and 1900. Red cooler was opened, with meltwater kept in jugs. 

29 Aug 0700— Temps= Blue 38.6°F, Red 37.8°. Drained again at 1900. 

30 Aug 0700— Drained. Temps= Blue 51.3°F, ice 90% gone, Red 46.4°, jugs retain 1/2 to 2/3 ice. Drained 1200, Blue 55° ice gone.

31 Aug 0700— Red 43.5°, jugs retain 1/3 to 1/4 ice. 1900 Red 49°, jugs retain 1/4 or less ice.

1 Sept 0700— Red 55°, trace of ice in one jug. 1300, Red, no ice remains.

Summed up, the single bare block of ice lasted 51 hours. The frozen jugs lasted 100 hours. Not what I would have predicted.


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## rwhyman

Chip, Question, when you drained the blue cooler, how did you drain it? Tip it up and pour the water out? If so, you would also be pouring the cold air out. And the remaining ice would have to re-cool the new air and thus melt faster.
Like you, I would not have expected the result that you got.


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## Chip

rwhyman said:


> Chip, Question, when you drained the blue cooler, how did you drain it? Tip it up and pour the water out? If so, you would also be pouring the cold air out. And the remaining ice would have to re-cool the new air and thus melt faster.


Good thought. These coolers don't have draincocks, so I did have to tip one up. I tried to minimize the difference by opening both up for the same amount of time and taking out the sealed jugs from the red cooler (so the air was stirred up). 

If there's anyone (hint) with larger identical coolers, say 100+ qt., you could do a similar test with sealed jugs and bare block ice, and be able to drain more frequently. The coolers should be opened at least twice a day, for a real-world comparison. 

What we're trying to determine is not a majority of opinion, but what works best. A worthy pursuit, I think.


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## Droboat

Chip said:


> What we're trying to determine is not a majority of opinion, but what works best. A worthy pursuit, I think.


Pretty big discrepancy - 51 hours bare and drained vs 100 hours jugged. Would be interesting to see if a second run with same parameters turned in a similar result. 

Don't mean to pimp you, as suggested in my snarky post concering off season guides, but you've got a solid experiement going.


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## Chip

Droboat said:


> Pretty big discrepancy - 51 hours bare and drained vs 100 hours jugged. Would be interesting to see if a second run with same parameters turned in a similar result.


Been thinking it over. Two factors probably made the most difference: 

First, the blue cooler block was the same shape as the bottom of the cooler, so it was bathed in meltwater that was in direct contact with the inside of the chest (i.e. no air gap between the thermal mass and the insulation). 

Second, each time I drained water, the thermal mass in the blue cooler decreased, while the mass (ice & water) in the red cooler stayed constant. 

I'll come up with another test in the near future. Definitely need some fresh experimental beer.


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## kazak4x4

Were you measuring the temp of the air inside the cooler or the temp of the jugs?


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## Chip

kazak4x4 said:


> Were you measuring the temp of the air inside the cooler or the temp of the jugs?


Air temp, about 4" below the top.


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