# Invites



## dwjohnson (Mar 1, 2020)

I'm a couple of years into owning my own boats & have had some great adventures. Problem is I don't like going alone for safety, shuttle logistics, and like a few other people along to help load boats, & have fun. 

I have a lot of people who tell me they want to go & looks like fun, but when I send an invite it just happens to be their cousins one year old nieces birthday and the child will be devistated for life if they don't attend, but next time for sure!!! 

Those that have gone with us mention how much fun they had and what a great adventure it was and would love to go again, so I'm not a complete asshole to be around I guess... 

Am I alone out here? I'm not a planner & usually don't look more than a couple of weeks out. What's the experience with blind invites on social media?


----------



## 2tomcat2 (May 27, 2012)

Those who bail due to anything but death, you don't want on your trip
Those of us who plan, scheme and dream will go again and again and....
You are not alone, many threads on this topic, some very much enjoy having new folks on their trips, some don't
Trip expectations should be clearly (and early) communicated to everyone; it makes for a much better trip


----------



## Wallrat (Jan 19, 2021)

I usually do three invites. After that I look elsewhere if they don’t come out for a day. Too many people are crazy about boating, but never go.


----------



## no1kobefan (Aug 29, 2019)

Post here, friend. I’d be glad to join a trip depending where it is. Sucks when people cancel. I basically have to beg people to go.


----------



## cupido76 (May 22, 2009)

I try not to judge but I get frustrated by the same thing. We regularly have people tell us how awesome it sounds but don't follow through when the time comes up.

There are a lot of reasons but I think it comes down to priorities. 

People only have so much time off and often tend to plan out their entire summer. This didn't used to happen when I was younger... FOMO maybe?

They want to go but it's an unknown and even when it's great it's still a lot of work... and there are other things they want to make sure they do.

Ironically my 2 boat crew has 3 newbies coming on a trip this weekend. I'm looking forward to it!


----------



## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

I don't mind boating alone, don't mind other folks as long as they are in their boat, and not mine LOL. Have done a lot of trips with folks I've met on the interwebs, quite a few Grand invites came to me that way, and have met a lot of great folks on those trips. Yep, there's always the risk of having one asshole, but so far I've been lucky most trips. One thing that seems to have become pervasive in the last 3 or 4 years is some folks want to bring their politics to the rivers, and that causes me to be a lot more careful in vetting folks. Not so much of an issue on an overnight or a multi day of 5 or so days, but on a 21 day GC trip, it can become annoying. My boating circle of friends has shrunk over the years, still have a few that are able to go at the drop of a hat, but they are getting fewer and farther between.

Where are you located ?


----------



## Pinchecharlie (Jul 27, 2017)

Well...I wanna go!!! But oh wait I have a job and they said they need me. Wait, iam off work but my hot water heater rusted through and floodedmy house. Now I can go , oh crap my kids need me. Finally I can go! No wait my wife says she'll leave me if I don't spend more time with them! Can I take them? No they are scared and wanna go to the museum.....wtf....ok now everything has settled down and I have some time and family is good....nope dog ate tampons and had surgery and I have no gas money and he can't be left alone....fuc$!! (This is my actual last 6 weeks) sometimes it's hard to do anything especially when it's short notice and seasonal!!!


----------



## SherpaDave (Dec 28, 2017)

dwjohnson said:


> Am I alone out here? I'm not a planner & usually don't look more than a couple of weeks out. What's the experience with blind invites on social media?


Where are ya from? You might be alone, you might not.


----------



## dwjohnson (Mar 1, 2020)

Wallrat said:


> I usually do three invites. After that I look elsewhere if they don’t come out for a day. Too many people are crazy about boating, but never go.


That's usually my limit too, 3x & you know my number!


----------



## dwjohnson (Mar 1, 2020)

MNichols said:


> I don't mind boating alone, don't mind other folks as long as they are in their boat, and not mine LOL. Have done a lot of trips with folks I've met on the interwebs, quite a few Grand invites came to me that way, and have met a lot of great folks on those trips. Yep, there's always the risk of having one asshole, but so far I've been lucky most trips. One thing that seems to have become pervasive in the last 3 or 4 years is some folks want to bring their politics to the rivers, and that causes me to be a lot more careful in vetting folks. Not so much of an issue on an overnight or a multi day of 5 or so days, but on a 21 day GC trip, it can become annoying. My boating circle of friends has shrunk over the years, still have a few that are able to go at the drop of a hat, but they are getting fewer and farther between.
> 
> Where are you located ?


God, politics, & work talk are to be avoided at all times. I'm in EMS & public safety and that's why I'm on the river to get away from that crap! Located in SW Wyoming & float the Green & Snake Rivers mostly.


----------



## dwjohnson (Mar 1, 2020)

Pinchecharlie said:


> Well...I wanna go!!! But oh wait I have a job and they said they need me. Wait, iam off work but my hot water heater rusted through and floodedmy house. Now I can go , oh crap my kids need me. Finally I can go! No wait my wife says she'll leave me if I don't spend more time with them! Can I take them? No they are scared and wanna go to the museum.....wtf....ok now everything has settled down and I have some time and family is good....nope dog ate tampons and had surgery and I have no gas money and he can't be left alone....fuc$!! (This is my actual last 6 weeks) sometimes it's hard to do anything especially when it's short notice and seasonal!!!


OK, not just me then & I have heard many of those excuses as well and it's frustrating as hell.


SherpaDave said:


> Where are ya from? You might be alone, you might not.


SW Wyoming


----------



## dwjohnson (Mar 1, 2020)

no1kobefan said:


> Post here, friend. I’d be glad to join a trip depending where it is. Sucks when people cancel. I basically have to beg people to go.


Where are you located?


----------



## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

dwjohnson said:


> God, politics, & work talk are to be avoided at all times. I'm in EMS & public safety and that's why I'm on the river to get away from that crap! Located in SW Wyoming & float the Green & Snake Rivers mostly.


Fire and EMS here as well, and I totally concur !!!


----------



## psheya (May 14, 2012)

Just keep in mind, if there are no assholes on your trip...you're it!


----------



## Dangerfield (May 28, 2021)

If there is any chance for a pre trip conflict that could come onto "The River" , talk it out before hand. Even that might not be sufficient, and for example 9 days on the river (MF/Main) with a "former" friend turned asshole is not worth it. Edit: former "friend/long time rafter" due to the 9 days.


----------



## Pinchecharlie (Jul 27, 2017)

And just for cause....I lost friends when I didn't invite them on a stupid smith trip cause I was full!!! I'll seriously go any where with anyone. I drink and smoke ALOT and cant be trusted with beautiful women (any woman really)but ill keep my religious views to my self!! Grand canyon in September anyone??


----------



## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

Being a fireman, if I see you smoking around me, I will assume that you are on fire and take the appropriate actions lol

You got a grand permit for September?


----------



## Pinchecharlie (Jul 27, 2017)

No I want on the guys with the hot wife!!! Badumpcha...


----------



## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

Pinchecharlie said:


> No I want on the guys with the hot wife!!! Badumpcha...


From your posts, I don't know that I'd want you around my wife!


----------



## Pinchecharlie (Jul 27, 2017)

My wife says the same thing lol! Iam going boating now hooray!!!!


----------



## Wallrat (Jan 19, 2021)

Charlie’s not nearly as handsome as he thinks he is...I’d say your wife is safe, unless she gets hammered! Charlie, you’re being a bad boy!


----------



## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

Thankfully, my wife does not drink or do drugs of any sort. What she does do is train horses, castrate cattle and pretty much anything that a male ranch hand would do. Not to mention she rose her own boat in class 5 water... Woman's got bigger balls than I do on some days...I don't think Charlie's got a chance lol


----------



## Wallrat (Jan 19, 2021)

MNichols said:


> Thankfully, my wife does not drink or do drugs of any sort. What she does do is train horses, castrate cattle and pretty much anything that a male ranch hand would do. Not to mention she rose her own boat in class 5 water... Woman's got bigger balls than I do on some days...I don't think Charlie's got a chance lol


Pay attention Charlie, she cuts horses for a hobby. That’s Natures way of saying “stay away”.


----------



## RidgeLivin (Apr 25, 2019)

The worst are the ones who don't even respond to the invitations. If you can't go, that's fine, but at least SAY IT. 

It's also frustrating when you get radio silence from the confirmed group after spending 30+ minutes sending well thought out emails about logistics, food, etc. Everyone is "so busy" that they can't send a one sentence response even though the TL is just as busy in everyday life, but is also doing 95% of the work to ensure all the crewmembers have the adventure of a lifetime. 

Then when the trip is over, it's like pulling teeth to get some people to pay up. There are plenty who will pay right away, but there is nothing more frustrating than doing 95% of the work and then paying more than anyone else did for the trip. Everyone always jokes that we shouldn't pay anything due to all the work we do, but we still end up footing most of the bill somehow. This is one of the main things I'm working on. For our next trip, we have to rent a raft based on the group size and I'm asking that all the non boat owners pay up front for the rental because why the hell should we front damn near $1000 when we've spent well over $10,000 on our own gear and will be buying most of the food for this 9 day trip.

Alright, that turned into a rant but I'm sure others can relate.


----------



## Wallrat (Jan 19, 2021)

RidgeLivin said:


> The worst are the ones who don't even respond to the invitations. If you can't go, that's fine, but at least SAY IT.
> 
> It's also frustrating when you get radio silence from the confirmed group after spending 30+ minutes sending well thought out emails about logistics, food, etc. Everyone is "so busy" that they can't send a one sentence response even though the TL is just as busy in everyday life, but is also doing 95% of the work to ensure all the crewmembers have the adventure of a lifetime.
> 
> ...


I’m with you on that one: if I bring a boat on the trip, I’m not obligated to help pay for those people who need to rent a boat for the trip. I’ve already paid, and no doubt will be hauling some of the other folks gear. So I paid for my boat, pay in sweat to haul their gear, and pay for their rental boat? I did this once, but would never do it again.
This spring we did everything separate...separate kitchens, separate menus. It worked quite well, with no sense of feeling left out, or not being sociable.


----------



## showme44 (May 13, 2013)

Fortunately I was invited on a Middle Fork permit 30 years ago because they needed a Boatman that had his own Boat, Out of that trip I met enough Oarsman that through the years I have always had a crew to invite along or go with. It has been added to subsequently each year. I hope you can find a crew like this.
The guy that invited me Turned 80 this year. He just rowed the Middle Fork last week with me.


----------



## RidgeLivin (Apr 25, 2019)

showme44 said:


> Fortunately I was invited on a Middle Fork permit 30 years ago because they needed a Boatman that had his own Boat, Out of that trip I met enough Oarsman that through the years I have always had a crew to invite along or go with. It has been added to subsequently each year. I hope you can find a crew like this.
> The guy that invited me Turned 80 this year. He just rowed the Middle Fork last week with me.


That's awesome. My best friend took the plunge and bought himself a 16' Aire Lion that I affectionately call The Aircraft Carrier. He recently moved to CA, which sucks. He was able to join us on a 9-day San Juan trip earlier this year, but he can't make the next one. Two other boating couple friends joined us on the Chama for 3 days, but 9-day Deso is too much for them. Luckily, our crew for Deso has all done trips with us, so they're a great crew but things are just more complicated when you have to rent a boat and everyone is looking to your for what to do. Hopefully it's just one step closer to them getting their own boats.


----------



## showme44 (May 13, 2013)

RidgeLivin said:


> That's awesome. My best friend took the plunge and bought himself a 16' Aire Lion that I affectionately call The Aircraft Carrier. He recently moved to CA, which sucks. He was able to join us on a 9-day San Juan trip earlier this year, but he can't make the next one. Two other boating couple friends joined us on the Chama for 3 days, but 9-day Deso is too much for them. Luckily, our crew for Deso has all done trips with us, so they're a great crew but things are just more complicated when you have to rent a boat and everyone is looking to your for what to do. Hopefully it's just one step closer to them getting their own boats.


I have a friend in New Mexico that enjoys Deso. If you have an opening, he is a great guy and has lots of equipment and time. He just finished a MFS with us.
I ran many a Deso back when the kids were small. My daughter rowed Middle Fork this year. Proud Dad Moments. Heck, I would be happy to run a Deso. Not enough vacation time left this year.


----------



## showme44 (May 13, 2013)

RidgeLivin said:


> The worst are the ones who don't even respond to the invitations. If you can't go, that's fine, but at least SAY IT.
> 
> It's also frustrating when you get radio silence from the confirmed group after spending 30+ minutes sending well thought out emails about logistics, food, etc. Everyone is "so busy" that they can't send a one sentence response even though the TL is just as busy in everyday life, but is also doing 95% of the work to ensure all the crewmembers have the adventure of a lifetime.
> 
> ...


About 15 years ago we mostly stopped bringing non boaters. Its no fun to try an insure people are having a good time. Boaters that own their own gear know what they are getting into. Charge deposits and make a non refundable commitment date. I know this is easier when you have a bunch of people that really want to go. Our typical week long trips cost $350 per person not including shuttle. I feel your pain.


----------



## ConanYourBarbarian (Jun 26, 2021)

RidgeLivin said:


> The worst are the ones who don't even respond to the invitations. If you can't go, that's fine, but at least SAY IT.
> 
> It's also frustrating when you get radio silence from the confirmed group after spending 30+ minutes sending well thought out emails about logistics, food, etc. Everyone is "so busy" that they can't send a one sentence response even though the TL is just as busy in everyday life, but is also doing 95% of the work to ensure all the crewmembers have the adventure of a lifetime.
> 
> ...


I totally agree! I have a bunch of dumb, rediculous and expensive hobbies. I've learned that if I want people to come along I've got to provide gear, food and beer. If it was just me doing everything solo my expenses would be much much less!

As far as time spent planning goes, I devote a lot of time to typing out packing lists, meal plans etc and usually get emoji responses or nothing. That's frustrating because if yall are like me I want input on how I can improve for the next trip, or what things I can bring to make someone a little more comfortable (within reason). I had a friend try to bring his not waterproof Bluetooth speaker backpack and guitar with no case on an overnight trip once. He was pretty disappointed when I handed him a 45L Tuff sack and told him if it didn't fit he couldn't bring it.

I think we forget just how passionate we are about the things we love and this can be lost on a lot of people.

It's all worth it though, the frustration, the stress of planning, telling people they can't wear they're nice wrangler plants on my boat or skinning.... once everybody hits the white water or cracks a beer it's game on


----------



## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

Dude I love your thinking! You pay for my trip, not only will I TL your trip, but I'll do your food pack for minimum cost, empty your groovers, for minimum cost, and give you my 40 years worth of river running expertise for free! Invite me on your trip!

Shameless self-promotion aside, I used to do shit like that, entice people to come along, and I was generally disappointed. I wanted people that were enthusiastic about going, and I am very thankful to have a very close circle a very good voters and very good passengers to rely on when I need


----------



## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

MNichols said:


> Dude I love your thinking! You pay for my trip, not only will I TL your trip, but I'll do your food pack for minimum cost, empty your groovers, for minimum cost, and give you my 40 years worth of river running expertise for free! Invite me on your trip!
> 
> Shameless self-promotion aside, I used to do shit like that, entice people to come along, and I was generally disappointed. I wanted people that were enthusiastic about going, and I am very thankful to have a very close circle a very good voters and very good passengers to rely on when I need


Boaters*


----------



## Dangerfield (May 28, 2021)

Hope your invites have the character of Bighorn1478 (Scott). We should all be so lucky to have known's and unknown's with glowing reviews to rely upon, from what I have read.


----------



## Pine (Aug 15, 2017)

Any more, we pretty much do all our trips alone, just my wife, our dog and I in our 14' boat. It ends up being way less complicated than the cat herding experience of organizing a large trip, and less stressful than tagging along on a large unorganized trip. You also avoid the _people_ wild card, like that friend of a friend who has an emotional melt down, or the obnoxious drunk, or the person that decided to bring a loud radio and constantly blares hip hop music in camp, or the person that drops the ball on their share of chores, or the slow poke. We're both more on the introverted side so we don't miss the social aspect too much. I always run into interesting characters to visit with to counter the solitude periodically.

Since we are small and agile, and have flexible work schedules, we score lots of cancellations. It kind of sucks during high water season, because of the risk of boating alone, but thats the only con I can think of. Even then, we've usually been able to hook up with other groups for safety at big rapids. 

When I kayaked, I used to have a more regular pool of trip mates, but they all got older, had kids, grew other responsibilities, etc. That being said, I really don't like bringing kayakers along on multi-day raft trips anymore. It's just extra weight for the oarsman, and the kayakers I know tend not to contribute as much to the group effort (not generalizing here, just referring specifically to the kayakers I know).

One of the main reasons I quite kayaking is that it was hard to find reliable boating partners that wanted to boat the same stuff I did. I was boating about 50% of the time solo, but with age decided it wasn't safe for me any more. With Rafting is a lot easier to be self-sufficient, and a lot safer to go on a single boat trips.


----------



## Pinchecharlie (Jul 27, 2017)

I'd like to do solo stuff too. I don't have a group at all because I started late. Unfortunately I am kinda scared to go alone cause i don't have much experience. Bummer is I don't go at all. What's worse ? Was actually just thinking I'd go on a lower salmon trip. Stuff it. Better to try than just dream about it. Will be kinda pathetic at camp all alone though lol.


----------



## dwjohnson (Mar 1, 2020)

cupido76 said:


> I try not to judge but I get frustrated by the same thing. We regularly have people tell us how awesome it sounds but don't follow through when the time comes up.
> 
> There are a lot of reasons but I think it comes down to priorities.
> 
> ...


People plan their whole summers??? I guess i don't need those kind of people in my life! lol Im more of a "hey its the weekend, where are we going this time kinda guy"!


----------



## dwjohnson (Mar 1, 2020)

MNichols said:


> Fire and EMS here as well, and I totally concur !!!





SherpaDave said:


> Where are ya from? You might be alone, you might not.


SW Wyoming, You?


----------



## dwjohnson (Mar 1, 2020)

psheya said:


> Just keep in mind, if there are no assholes on your trip...you're it!


HAHAHAHAHAA have you been stalking me on social media???? perhaps you are right!


----------



## dwjohnson (Mar 1, 2020)

Pine said:


> Any more, we pretty much do all our trips alone, just my wife, our dog and I in our 14' boat. It ends up being way less complicated than the cat herding experience of organizing a large trip, and less stressful than tagging along on a large unorganized trip. You also avoid the _people_ wild card, like that friend of a friend who has an emotional melt down, or the obnoxious drunk, or the person that decided to bring a loud radio and constantly blares hip hop music in camp, or the person that drops the ball on their share of chores, or the slow poke. We're both more on the introverted side so we don't miss the social aspect too much. I always run into interesting characters to visit with to counter the solitude periodically.
> 
> Since we are small and agile, and have flexible work schedules, we score lots of cancellations. It kind of sucks during high water season, because of the risk of boating alone, but thats the only con I can think of. Even then, we've usually been able to hook up with other groups for safety at big rapids.
> 
> ...


I agree with you as far as muti day trips, and I recently went on a trip with another boater in my "Circle" I have never rafted with & wont again, total douche & wouldnt lend a extra paddler my boat needed for the run, wanted all the girls on his boat, was creeping on all the women, and had his bluetooth speaker going. Perhaps its time to just find the $ for a smaller boat for just us & keep the big boat for expedition trips.


----------



## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

dwjohnson said:


> SW Wyoming, You?


Salida Colorado


----------



## Pinchecharlie (Jul 27, 2017)

Salidas where iam moving when I hit the powerball!!


----------



## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

Pinchecharlie said:


> Salidas where iam moving when I hit the powerball!!


I thought you were moving to Hawaii?




MNichols said:


> One thing that seems to have become pervasive in the last 3 or 4 years is some folks want to bring their politics to the rivers, and that causes me to be a lot more careful in vetting folks.





MNichols said:


> > voters
> 
> 
> Boaters*


I'm so confused now! You prefer the non-political uninformed voters?
haha



ConanYourBarbarian said:


> I totally agree! I have a bunch of dumb, rediculous and expensive hobbies. I've learned that if I want people to come along I've got to provide gear, food and beer. If it was just me doing everything solo my expenses would be much much less!


They don't even bring their own Beer??! Ah, the humanity.






MNichols said:


> I don't mind boating alone, don't mind other folks as long as they are in their boat, and not mine LOL.





Pine said:


> That being said, I really don't like bringing kayakers along on multi-day raft trips anymore. It's just extra weight for the oarsman, and the kayakers I know tend not to contribute as much to the group effort (not generalizing here, just referring specifically to the kayakers I know).


Kayakers have a place if you're on a river where a nasty flip/swim is possible and it's great to have someone pulling swimmers to shore..but I agree it's always extra weight for the oarsman.
Really a pain if people don't pack light-ish...some kayakers have never rowed and think they can bring all their favorite cast iron!

I have been fortunate to bring a childhood buddy on a couple trips.. he's backpacked forever, so even when he thinks he's packing "heavy", it's only "backpacker heavy" and actually "rafter light". 😂


----------



## Pinchecharlie (Jul 27, 2017)

If I hit the powerball I'll have a place tgere too! I moved here from kauai! Was a surfer now iam class2charlie!!


----------



## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

Pinchecharlie said:


> Salidas where iam moving when I hit the powerball!!


You wouldn't like it here, we're overrun with tourists we have snakes bears mountain lions scorpions spiders, it's not a nice place at all


----------



## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

MT4Runner said:


> I thought you were moving to Hawaii?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Kayakers have a place with most of God's other creatures, right next to the mashed potatoes and gravy lol


----------



## idahoriversrat (Jul 1, 2011)

I have been rafting for nearly 23 years and what seems to work best is if you show up you show up. The least amount of work I placed on inviting guests the more seems to show up. This last weekend I shared with a group that a group shared with me and we had over 30 in our group. We made it simply and shared this is where we are camping and this is where we are rafting. Overall, it was a very fun weekend. When I lived back east and ran the Gauley and New on a regular bases, the people back there really jump on the chance to go paddling. I have found the trips with the least amount of guests are just as fun. It seems that we are blessed to be living in the part of the USA that we have so many options for the great outdoors. Since living in Utah I gone to enjoying mountain biking over rafting. Seems like it is way less work and I have been able to explore more the beauty of Utah.


----------



## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

We had 20 people and 9 dories on an all-dory trip. Benefit of dories is that .... well, they're fragile and don't like to be heavy... oh sorry--that nobody gets a dory for their first boat. Everyone on the trip had been on multiple multidays, had kayaked, rafted, most had guided, and everyone knew what to do in camp. We'd pull in and groover-handwash-kitchen-cocktails-dish station-hors'deuvres were all going with no discussion about the task.

And had 2 other dory trips with the same launch date and we shared a few campsites and also had some evenings with just our single group. Had half the crew leave the 1st week and a smaller crew the 2nd week. Like others have said, there's something to be said for a small group trip; yet I'd swap in anyone from the first big group week into the mellower 2nd week.

It's worth being TL if you have an amazing group. Sometimes you get lucky.


----------

