# Tandem Ducky Cataraft?



## mr. compassionate (Jan 13, 2006)

I've had the same thought yet while sober! Don't know what this says about me.


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## DanRauer (Jun 8, 2006)

DurangoSteve said:


> Anyone ever try using 2 tandem duckies as "tubes" for a cataraft rig? The idea occurred to me last night after the ingestion of a mind-altering substance...


DurangoSteve, 

Check this link out. It has been done. Looks pretty funky, no space between the two duckies. This dude used a row machine as seat mount, I guess so it would slide back and forth for some reason. It would be my guess that that dude was probably on some mind altering drugs as well when he came up with that shit. I don't think it would haul to much, besides you and your stash.

inflatable kayaks made into a raft

Later,
Dan


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## DurangoSteve (Jun 2, 2006)

That was an "interesting link". I think the guy who built that was smoking crack when he dreamed it up. I lean toward green combustibles. My thought is to use a modified cat frame rather than a raft frame. I'll probably have to spend some quality time in the hammock to further "develop" this idea....




DanRauer said:


> DurangoSteve,
> 
> Check this link out. It has been done. Looks pretty funky, no space between the two duckies. This dude used a row machine as seat mount, I guess so it would slide back and forth for some reason. It would be my guess that that dude was probably on some mind altering drugs as well when he came up with that shit. I don't think it would haul to much, besides you and your stash.
> 
> ...


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## Chip (Apr 7, 2007)

*Weird cat rigs*

I saw a photo, perhaps on the Jack's Plastic Welding website (<www.jpwinc.com> of a cat rowing frame with Jack's duckies as tubes. But Jack hasn't made duckies for years, so maybe he took it off. They'd have to be self-bailers, and it doesn't strike me as being particularly hydrodynamic: 4 tubes and 2 floors. But on the other hand, you could strap drybags of gear in the duckies, and have a very low center of gravity for the hoo-hahs. 

My first rowing frame rested on the tubes from two Jack's Pack Cats, a single (about 10.5 ft., outboard) and a double (about 13 ft., inboard). Weird-looking thing, but it worked on the Colorado (Dewey Bridge to Moab) at 24,000 or so, with keeper eddies forming along the cliffs on the right. We got sucked in a few times and whirled like mad, without feeling at risk from tips or flips. Pretty wet, as boats go. 

Aire used to make double-tube cats that looked like two duckies, but they quit. 

Fun to try things out—

yrs, Chip


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## awineke (Apr 28, 2004)

Check out this link: 
http://www.theboatpeople.com/WhatsNew.html

I can see some benefits to the idea, but I think it would be really sluggish.

If you actually do it, be sure to tell us how it works.


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## robatnordic (Jul 1, 2005)

Been there, done that. We used a couple of SOAR 16' duckies. The frame was from AIRE (for their 12' fishing cat). It had about 2000 lbs capacity, and was incredibly manuverable yet stable. The down side was that everybody got wet in the smallest whitewater. Fun if you wanted it, but soon ran out of willing passengers. When broken down it could fit in my back pack.


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## awineke (Apr 28, 2004)

robatnordic said:


> Been there, done that. We used a couple of SOAR 16' duckies. The frame was from AIRE (for their 12' fishing cat). It had about 2000 lbs capacity, and was incredibly manuverable yet stable. The down side was that everybody got wet in the smallest whitewater. Fun if you wanted it, but soon ran out of willing passengers. When broken down it could fit in my back pack.


It was wet because the duckies had less rocker, or plowed more water or what?


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## Chip (Apr 7, 2007)

*Weird Cat*

Here's a pair of lousy photos of the Siamese Twin Pack Cat thingie. (Note the swivel fishing seats.) 

It's wet because it's so bloody low (12" tubes) and it tended to punch through waves rather than ride them. 

I've since moved on to more elegant and useful designs. 

yrs, Chip


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## DurangoSteve (Jun 2, 2006)

Thanks for all the input, ideas and links. My goal is to build a low-cost 2-person "yakcat" to be used for fishing and whitewater overnighters at Class III, max. I can certainly see the get-wet aspect of this proposed rig, as well as the lack of rocker/hole-punching limitations of the design.

Keep the ideas coming!





Chip said:


> Here's a pair of lousy photos of the Siamese Twin Pack Cat thingie. (Note the swivel fishing seats.)
> 
> It's wet because it's so bloody low (12" tubes) and it tended to punch through waves rather than ride them.
> 
> ...


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## Chip (Apr 7, 2007)

For photos of homebuilt frames, lists of materials, etc. search "Games with Frames." Not sure how to link to it, sorry.

If you use the normal sort of duckie (i.e. 12 ft. long) you end up with a boat that's rather short and wide. Might not track all that well. But it'd be fun to find out. One nice thing about using SpeedRail joint, toprail tubing, etc. is that if it doesn't work out, you can get some new toprail and re-use all the rest of the stuff. 

yrs, Chip


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## DurangoSteve (Jun 2, 2006)

I did follow your thread on the homemade frames - very cool stuff! 

The duckies I want to use are 12'9" long and 38.5" wide... so I think I need to keep the width of the rig to no more than 7 ft.


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## robatnordic (Jul 1, 2005)

The "get wet" factor is due to the low deck height. I was partially sumbmerged most of the time, but never got stuck in holes (westwater 12k, lower barrel springs)


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## robatnordic (Jul 1, 2005)

By the way Durango Steve, I am moving to d-town this sunday. Once settled in I want to do some after work rafting. Is there a lot of that? Is the river crowd pretty accepting of newbies? Saw Piper the surfing corgie last week.


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## DurangoSteve (Jun 2, 2006)

I'm not part of the local hardcore, as I am a relative neophyte who duckies and rafts pretty easy stuff, so I dunno. I have photographed lots of highly skilled playboaters who are also crazed creekers and they all seem very cool. 

Get your boat in the Animas as soon as you can, 'cause after lots of mini-spikes in the flow, it's now going down pretty quickly. For me, it's time to start slinging caddis to hungry fishies.




robatnordic said:


> By the way Durango Steve, I am moving to d-town this sunday. Once settled in I want to do some after work rafting. Is there a lot of that? Is the river crowd pretty accepting of newbies? Saw Piper the surfing corgie last week.


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## Mike Hartley (May 1, 2006)

I know this thread has been dead for a while but I just ran across it while looking for other information. I have used a rig like this quite a bit. We call it the Super Duck. I have one Air Super Lynx II and one Tandem Tomcat. The Frame is simply two breakdown pieces of raft frame tubing. The way I rig it there is about 6" of space between the two boats. I think it's a hoot. I've used on varied runs like a very low water self-supported trip on the Middle Fork of the Salmon (two adults and a 10 year old) to Brown's on the Ark at 3000 cfs. It tracks well, is very maneuverable, and very stable. I fill all of the dead spaces with float bags. Yes, it is a very wet ride but that's the only negative I can think of. It's a very versatile rig that adds a great extra dimension over simply owning two duckies. I've also used it with two single IK's and one tandem and one single. All worked great


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## Chip (Apr 7, 2007)

Two pieces of frame tubing? Do you have a paddler in each boat, R-2 style?

Can't imagine it being an oarframe without more structure.


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## Mike Hartley (May 1, 2006)

Chip,

No, I've never set it up as a rowing frame. We paddle the rig with 2 - 4 people. The two pieces of tubing are each 7' long with a breakdown joint in the middle. The breakdown aspect not only works well for transport, but also makes for easy portage options. The tubing can stay strapped to the two boats but the frame "broken" down so they can be portaged or paddled as single boats. I use a "clevis pin" type of connector off of my rowing frame. The frame clips together or breaks down in seconds.


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## Andy H. (Oct 13, 2003)

> The tubing can stay strapped to the two boats but the frame "broken" down so they can be portaged or paddled as single boats. I use a "clevis pin" type of connector off of my rowing frame. The frame clips together or breaks down in seconds.


Lets hear more about this, do tell. Ya got any photos?

I wonder what one could do with an NRS Bighorn I frame.....


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## Mike Hartley (May 1, 2006)

Andy,

I use 4 staps per boat. Each strap loops over the frame tubing, then goes under the boat tube, up through the drain hole(s), and once again loops over the frame tubing. I can crank it down tight without any worries of breaking a cargo loop on the boat itself. I can email you some pictures but I haven't taken the time to learn how to post them on this forum.


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## Chip (Apr 7, 2007)

Since you couldn't carry more weight than two duckies apart, I'm guessing that the major advantage would be to have a more stable and powerful rig for the rough stuff: with two paddlers you have more blade in the water more of the time, hence more power. And you'd be a lot less likely to flip. 

But to switch from the double rig to single IK's, wouldn't you need to carry both types of paddles: canoe and kayak?  Or do you have breakdown yak paddles with those handle-plug fittings, to convert them? 

I was thinking that if you had the breakdown yak paddles with removable blades (e.g. AquaBound) you could use the shafts to rig your R-2. 

Anyhow, it sounds like you're thinking—

Chip


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## Mike Hartley (May 1, 2006)

Chip,

The only reasons I use this rig is it's incredibly stable and it's really fun to paddle with someone else versus solo kayaking. I can take people down water that they'd surely flip an IK in and feel confident. On the Middle Fork I was hesitant to take my daughter down in a tandem IK but we didn't have any trouble with the Super Duck.

On trips where I've broken the frame down and paddled the two boats independently we had breakdown kayak paddles with us since there were a bunch of solo paddlers along. The adapters that allowed you to use a breakdown kayak paddle as a canoe paddle would be nice but I don't have any.


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## DurangoSteve (Jun 2, 2006)

The Super Duck sounds pretty cool. I started this thread a year ago and still haven't built my DuckDeluxe. Thanks for reminding me of this project I shelved.


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