# Performance of Aire Force and Lynx IK



## John_in_Loveland (Jun 9, 2011)

So I was a hardshell kayaker for a number of years. I have run up to class IV runs on westwater, the Poudre, the Salt and a few others. I no longer kayak, but do have a raft. I am considering whether or not to get an IK for a preseason MFS trip instead of running my raft. Does anyone have any experience with these IKS and can tell me how closely they mimic a hardshell?

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## k2andcannoli (Feb 28, 2012)

I love paddling the force, it's feel tight and sharp compared to bigger ducks. Don't try to bring much with you because there is no room for gear, maybe a drybag or two. Aire has it on sale now...it looks like the current model has more rocker than I remember, has that been changed? I'm a big fan of Attila's boats at custom inflatables. The thrill seeker is a great boat and has room for a bit more gear. Probably the best combo of hard shell like paddling and gear capacity. They pack small and can be custom built...also are available in urethane instead of pvc.


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## Randaddy (Jun 8, 2007)

The Force is sweet. Small Pelican stowed above the back float bag and water bottle(s) up front is plenty for day trips. You're probably not going to overnight with it.


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## John_in_Loveland (Jun 9, 2011)

How well does it eddy hop and ferry?


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## Learch (Jul 12, 2010)

If you are a hard shell boater the Force is gonna be your best bet. Lynx's are great too, I have one right now. I paddled an old school Force XL for a decade, it excelled at some things and sucked at others. Rocker was the one thing that boat was really missing. They really made an improvement with the transition from the floor to the tubes. The floor stuck down below the tubes too far on the original Force line, making a chin that water could grab. Turbulent eddy lines sucked. (Mule creek canyon on the Rogue was interesting) That said the Lynx is great, and has storage space. The Force you can pack a lunch on, the Lynx you can pack for a couple day trip if you go back pack style.


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## shoenfeld13 (Aug 18, 2009)

I used to kayak, went to rafting, and now have 2 aire force ik's. I have not taken them on any 4's but they perform like a champ on the 3's. My other IK's feel much closer to a raft than a hardshell.


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## mikesee (Aug 4, 2012)

John_in_Loveland said:


> So I was a hardshell kayaker for a number of years. I have run up to class IV runs on westwater, the Poudre, the Salt and a few others. I no longer kayak, but do have a raft. I am considering whether or not to get an IK for a preseason MFS trip instead of running my raft. Does anyone have any experience with these IKS and can tell me how closely they mimic a hardshell?
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I545 using Mountain Buzz mobile app


If you're coming from a hardshell background, and want an inflatable to closely mimc that feel, there is nothing closer than this:

https://alpackarafts.com/product/alpackalypse/

Punches standing waves, carves into and out of eddies, braces and rolls much like a hardshell. Plus it's easy to self-support (like your preseason MFS) with all the gear inside the tubes.

I self supported the Grand Canyon in one of these last January. 11 days of bliss.

Check out some of the vids on their site to see what I mean.


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## okieboater (Oct 19, 2004)

Impressive stuff!!

and it fits in a backpack


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## JIMM (Nov 3, 2009)

Bakraft??Thoughts? Its also gone down the GC, I think...


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## k2andcannoli (Feb 28, 2012)

I'm surprised that I haven't heard more about the bakraft, seems like it would be an awesome ik and very similar to a hard shell


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## mikesee (Aug 4, 2012)

JIMM said:


> Bakraft??Thoughts? Its also gone down the GC, I think...


It almost made it down the Grand, but completely detonated a few miles above Lava. A few *feet* of one of the seams let go while we were lunching. We had some backcountry ninjas on that trip with a collective library of knowledge on field repair, and none of us had any interest in even trying to resurrect that boat. It was Dead.

Before it died I paddled it and felt that it was very well suited to small, low volume creeks with tight maneuvering, lots of pivoting and/or portaging. Very easy to get in and out since it has no skirt.

In water deep enough to roll I didn't care for it at all--didn't want to go straight, so wide and short you couldn't begin to lean or carve it. Could roll it in a green eddy with a lot of effort and a little luck. I would be flat amazed if anyone could roll that thing in a combat situation with any level of aerated water.


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## JIMM (Nov 3, 2009)

Hmmm, very interesting and informative.


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## slickhorn (Dec 15, 2005)

these boats are all very different. you will not find in any inflatable the combination of hard chines, narrow width off the hip, large volume storage capacity, and precision edge control of a hardboat.

the aire force is about as close as traditional IKs get. I personally wouldn't want to be in one on high water MFS when swimming with 80' ponderosa is in play. Sure people roll 'em. getting chundered in Murph's hole? believe it when I see it. my main gripe with the force is nowhere to put minimum safety gear of spare paddle, pin kit, rope. 

the lynx, to me, is the clear winner here as the boat that can be self-rescued in. 

packrafts -- i have one, i love it, i do not roll it ... if you have a bomber roll though why did you stop hardshelling? if you don't have a bomber roll, you can't self rescue into a bucket boat with a spray skirt. 

I get all the non sexiness of the lynx. Throw your gear in a colorado duffel and do a self support post permit Selway trip and you'll come to appreciate how wide its versatility is.


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## mikesee (Aug 4, 2012)

slickhorn said:


> if you don't have a bomber roll, you can't self rescue into a bucket boat with a spray skirt.


come again?


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## JIMM (Nov 3, 2009)

I guess the Strike would be in contention also if we are talking about the Lynx?? Really not that different in handling compared to the L, maybe even better and certainly a lot cheaper. I certainly had no problems with it in big water around 3+.


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## slickhorn (Dec 15, 2005)

mikesee said:


> come again?


most packrafts, particularly the new ww oriented alpakalypse, are non self bailing and require a skirt like a hardshell. 

if you miss your roll you can't just climb back in -- you'd need to bail, and you're getting swamped while dicking around with your skirt 

a lynx is a 700lb flotation life preserver. just hang on to it.

for high water MFS I'd want an oar rig, or my IK. I'd probably go Lynx but would consider my sotar if not going self support. 

I'd take my alpacka for loon creek and big creek, but not for weber at 8 feet!

b


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## mikesee (Aug 4, 2012)

slickhorn said:


> if you miss your roll you can't just climb back in -- you'd need to bail


You should try it some time -- it works fine. Even if the boat is full of water, there's still plenty of flotation to paddle it to the next eddy where you can dump it and reset.

I've done it dozens of times while learning to roll, still occasionally when I miss my roll, and my non-rolling friends do it every time they swim.


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## slickhorn (Dec 15, 2005)

how many eddies ya got on a high water early season MF? How long can you safely be in the water, including debris concerns? when should boaters in your party should stop worrying about their line and worry about rescuing you? Or should they stick to their lines and let you fend for yourself in a partially swamped craft? Do you bail it out with your helmet?

Sounds like a technique that is fine for front country low volume pool n drop. Also sounds like it could lead to a 2 mile swim in 34 degree water on the MF.

But hey this sport is all about risk assessment, so if that sounds good to you, I'll hold yer beer! But why bother with the boat? bring some swim fins and give yourself a chance!


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## mikesee (Aug 4, 2012)

slickhorn said:


> But hey


Hyperbole much?

I haven't done MFS at high water. Can't comment.

But if it's that full on, and you don't have a roll, why are you there in the first place?


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## mikesee (Aug 4, 2012)

Also, a great example of how well this works just occurred to me.

Grand Canyon last fall, at Lava, 3 packrafts ran it in a line, maybe 60 yards between us. The line that day was straight through the v-wave, then hope the kahuna didn't stand up and slap you. The rest was just leaning and bracing.

First guy made it clean. Second guy got back endered by the kahuna wave. Panicked, missed his roll, swam. Third guy got munched above the v-wave, doesn't have a roll, swam. Both exited their boats within a second or two of each other.

Second guy wet exits, pops up hanging onto his boat, rights it, climbs in, catches the eddy immediately below the cheese grater. Not a huge amount of distance between where he flipped and that eddy. Point being, he was back in the boat and in that eddy lickety split. In time to see 3rd guy come swimming by, separated from his boat. So 2nd guy peels out, offers a stern line to 3rd guy, drags him into the same eddy he just came out of.

Similar scenario happened on a not-quite-high-water, but still big, Selway last spring.

It works, whether you wish to accept it into your reality or not.


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## bystander (Jul 3, 2014)

I haven't heard much about them online, but I've seen 3-4 different ones on the river. They are Packrafts btw. Not Bakraft.


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## Randaddy (Jun 8, 2007)

I thought I'd share my experience with the new (2010-2015) Force as a frequent swimmer. It's super easy to grab the webbing loop on the floor, flip it, and climb back in. Upside down you're basically clinging to a big SUP board in a rapid, and again the attached Web loops on the bottom of the floor are sweet for holding on to. If you're not packing it in, a pack raft makes no sense to me - get something tougher!

If you like the feeling of using your paddle and hips to balance your boat on moving water, not just your paddle to propel a "mini-raft" forward, you should check out the Force. I weigh 170, BTW. If you're over 200 pounds you might consider the Lynx...


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## AIRE Inc. (Feb 11, 2011)

*BAKrafts*



mikesee said:


> It almost made it down the Grand, but completely detonated a few miles above Lava. A few *feet* of one of the seams let go while we were lunching. We had some backcountry ninjas on that trip with a collective library of knowledge on field repair, and none of us had any interest in even trying to resurrect that boat. It was Dead.
> 
> Before it died I paddled it and felt that it was very well suited to small, low volume creeks with tight maneuvering, lots of pivoting and/or portaging. Very easy to get in and out since it has no skirt.
> 
> In water deep enough to roll I didn't care for it at all--didn't want to go straight, so wide and short you couldn't begin to lean or carve it. Could roll it in a green eddy with a lot of effort and a little luck. I would be flat amazed if anyone could roll that thing in a combat situation with any level of aerated water.


Hi all,

I have a couple clarifications to chime in with. Our BAKraft that went down the Grand Canyon with Forrest and crew was a prototype. Of course, we did not go with that prototypes construction or materials because it failed. (failed prototypes are major successes!) However, we did stick with the size and shape to keep the weight down. It is not designed with rolling in mind, I would also be flat amazed if anyone could roll it in a combat situation. 

Cheers,
Sheena Coles
AIRE Marketing


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## slickhorn (Dec 15, 2005)

John_in_Loveland said:


> So I was a hardshell kayaker for a number of years. I have run up to class IV runs on westwater, the Poudre, the Salt and a few others. I no longer kayak, but do have a raft. I am considering whether or not to get an IK for a preseason MFS trip instead of running my raft. Does anyone have any experience with these IKS and can tell me how closely they mimic a hardshell?


OP self-ID'd as a one-time IV kayaker. Specified run is preseason MFS. 

Lava? Not class IV. Self-rescuing into an eddy, retaining all your gear, then rescuing your buddy != rolling a hardshell. Exposure to water temps, debris in the water, and flush drowning significantly higher than simply hitting a quick roll. You ain't near as likely to swim out of the raft. Which choice is right? OP needs time in different boats himself to decide.

I get this place is full of badass MFers who just need a lil more Schlitz to give 'er, but ... "Class V extended swims are survivable" is not the answer the OP is looking for. 

I haven't run the MF at high flows either but I am aware of the hazards. They don't equate to a mellow Westwater trip, or a IV GC rapid with a 2 mile pool below. 

In any case, giving advice based on what the top tier of packrafters CAN do as a basis for what a class IV boater SHOULD do is equally as full of hyperbole as anything I've said. 

Did I miss the discussion about the OP's roll? Swim and swiftwater rescue experience? Drysuit ownership? Gear-hauling? Which of those runs OP listed were paddled vs rowed?


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## Issip (Apr 7, 2011)

*Floor Issues*

For those who have a lynx or force style Aire IK, do you have issues with the floor trapping pebbles? I recently bought an Aire Outfitter I and have had it for one season. While I like how it handles, it allows rocks into the floor, but then has a plastic mesh to prevent them from getting out the bottom. As a result they become trapped between the air cell and the PVC floor, and start creating gouges in the PVC. I removed the floor air cell 4 times during the season to remove the trapped pebbles, but the floor has already sustained considerable damage (and unzipping and removing the floor air cell after every trip is too much routine maintenance in my opinion).

I'm thinking about selling it before it gets torn up worse. I bought a Tomcat and it has holes that allow the pebbles to get out so I haven't seen the same problem with that boat, but I just bought it and have only taken it out once.

I'm curious if other IK's have this issue or if it's just the Outfitter style.


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## InflatableSteve (Jun 12, 2013)

Issip said:


> For those who have a lynx or force style Aire IK, do you have issues with the floor trapping pebbles? I recently bought an Aire Outfitter I and have had it for one season. While I like how it handles, it allows rocks into the floor, but then has a plastic mesh to prevent them from getting out the bottom. As a result they become trapped between the air cell and the PVC floor, and start creating gouges in the PVC. I removed the floor air cell 4 times during the season to remove the trapped pebbles, but the floor has already sustained considerable damage (and unzipping and removing the floor air cell after every trip is too much routine maintenance in my opinion).
> 
> I'm thinking about selling it before it gets torn up worse. I bought a Tomcat and it has holes that allow the pebbles to get out so I haven't seen the same problem with that boat, but I just bought it and have only taken it out once.
> 
> I'm curious if other IK's have this issue or if it's just the Outfitter style.


I don't seam to have that problem with my old Lynx. It does catch a little bit of small pebbles (more like large sand), but no damage to the floor. Even if jagged pebbles are trapped in the boat, I don't see how it would cause that much damage to the floor unless you are dragging bottom a lot, or walking on the boat when it is on land.


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## mikesee (Aug 4, 2012)

slickhorn said:


> OP needs time in different boats himself to decide.


Here we can agree.


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## JIMM (Nov 3, 2009)

I cannot figure out why they went to a mesh . I can see that trapping pebbles and ultimately even getting blocked off with particulate matter unless regularly cleaned off. I have one of the dropstitch floor IKs and even with holes for drainage very small pebbles do get trapped. I have only had to clean that up once in the last year and it also depends a lot on the quality of water you paddle in.


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## John_in_Loveland (Jun 9, 2011)

slickhorn said:


> OP self-ID'd as a one-time IV kayaker. Specified run is preseason MFS.
> 
> Lava? Not class IV. Self-rescuing into an eddy, retaining all your gear, then rescuing your buddy != rolling a hardshell. Exposure to water temps, debris in the water, and flush drowning significantly higher than simply hitting a quick roll. You ain't near as likely to swim out of the raft. Which choice is right? OP needs time in different boats himself to decide.
> 
> ...


 I thought maybe to clarify a bit. I have Class IV hardshell experience and have run a number of rivers, including dozens of runs on the Poudre at various levels (does 5' from Stevens to BTO count), The Salt at medium to high water, Westwater at both 3500 and 25,000, The Ark at average water, and the Grand. What I don't have NOW after years away from kayaking is a bombproof roll. However, I am very confidant all my other kayaking skills are still solid, or will return quickly - bracing, eddy hopping, ferrying, attainments, maybe some hole playing, etc. And yes, I have significant "swim" experience.

I have less rafting experience - The Main Salmon, Westwater, Poudre Upper C and the Ark. 

My reason for exploring an IK for a MFS trip is that the one thing I do have for sure is a healthy respect for the MFS preseason. I am not confident of my oar skills at high water on the MFS and am considering alternatives to just sitting on someone else's raft...and believe it or not, the VERY first thing I decided was that if I do this trip, I will spend whatever is needed to be safe and not risk myself or others. This includes a drysuit!!

Thus I am exploring what IK might be appropriate and how it might perform given my situation and skill level.


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## mikesee (Aug 4, 2012)

John_in_Loveland said:


> I thought maybe to clarify a bit.


Sounds like you're on top of it.

If you want to demo an Alpackalypse, and are in the ~5'10" range, I'm happy to loan you mine. Just had surgery so I'm off the water til xmas.

Lots of Westwater permits available these days. Like, all of 'em!

Good luck,

MC


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## Randaddy (Jun 8, 2007)

JIMM said:


> I cannot figure out why they went to a mesh . I can see that trapping pebbles and ultimately even getting blocked off with particulate matter unless regularly cleaned off. I have one of the dropstitch floor IKs and even with holes for drainage very small pebbles do get trapped. I have only had to clean that up once in the last year and it also depends a lot on the quality of water you paddle in.


After the 2012 Colorado wildfires I boated the Poudre during a black mud flow. The mesh got completely clogged and I bathtubbed the Force. It didn't do this to the bailing holes of rafts. This is the only time I've had a problem with this though and I've paddled a lot of chocolate milk in the Force.

Sand and silt and twigs do get stuck in between the bladder and the floor. I clean in out about once a year. In my opinion the sealed floor pocket option should be offered on the Force.


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## eyecon (Nov 18, 2015)

I have not seen anyone mention any of the NRS IK's 

NRS Outlaw 

OR

NRS MaverIK

any thoughts?


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## Randaddy (Jun 8, 2007)

eyecon said:


> I have not seen anyone mention any of the NRS IK's
> 
> NRS Outlaw
> 
> ...


I've paddled the Mav quite a bit. Hypalon ducks don't seem to stay as stiff, in my opinion. They also sick to rocks at low flows. They will, however, last a lifetime. 

I really want to try an Outlaw for a season and see how it holds up. I've never paddled and IK with a drop stitch floor. It might be sweet. Of course, it would need thigh straps and a float bag up front for my feet.


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## merritrd (Feb 1, 2010)

*Rocks in Aire floors*

I have a force, lynx and tomcat. Small rocks get trapped in all my boats and the rocks wear small holes in the floor if I don't manually remove the rocks every few trips by unzipping the floor. At least I don't see any wear on the bladders.


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## Learch (Jul 12, 2010)

Don't they have mesh in the floor holes now? I know my Force needed a clean out now and again, but I didn't paddle tons of brown water either.


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## Randaddy (Jun 8, 2007)

Wouldn't this be a great thread for an IK forum?


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## Issip (Apr 7, 2011)

*2015 Outfitter*

I bought my Outfitter 1 new in April of this year. It has holes on the upper floor PVC to let things into the air cell compartment, but has mesh that lets water drain out the bottom but traps debris. I think most of the pebbles that are causing me problems are being brought in with the mud and sand that sticks to my shoes or sandals, once I track it into the kayak chances are it ends up trapped in the floor.

I started noticing the gouges in the floor right away because the boat was brand new, and where there were marks I could feel the rocks trapped between the air call and PVC floor. The pebbles themselves aren't really doing the damage, but they make that tiny part of the floor stick out, then when you drag over rocks while paddling that part of the floor gets worn.

Toward the end of the season I would very carefully avoid tracking anything into the IK, but I still have to unzip the floor and remove the air cell to remove pebbles frequently to prevent damage to the floor.


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## John_in_Loveland (Jun 9, 2011)

Just found this video. It looks like the Force can run some intense stuff, but of particular interest to me was how long it took to get back into it after a flip.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rgu2QDmI8Ls


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## JIMM (Nov 3, 2009)

This is the new , current Force, correct?


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## InflatableSteve (Jun 12, 2013)

John_in_Loveland said:


> Just found this video. It looks like the Force can run some intense stuff, but of particular interest to me was how long it took to get back into it after a flip.
> 
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rgu2QDmI8Ls


Sweet video.

Single Ik's are pretty easy to flip back over and self rescue. I really want to try a Force out one of these days. As someone else mentioned the Thrillseeker from Custom Inflatables is another one on my list. The Lynx is a great boat, but won't have the performance as the others.

Old school video of the Thrillseeker in action.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCjKlm4x4rs


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## mikesee (Aug 4, 2012)

Randaddy said:


> Wouldn't this be a great thread for an *IK/SUP* forum?


Fixed.


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## InflatableSteve (Jun 12, 2013)

mikesee said:


> Fixed.


There already is a SUP subforum.


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## Randaddy (Jun 8, 2007)

mikesee said:


> Randaddy, sorry for changing your quote. I realize that this was wrong and I hope the community can forgive me. I promise to drive shuttle for all of you next season as an apology. I promise to never change a quote again.


Thanks mikesee! I appreciate your sincere alology!

They created a SUP forum. Because SUP is the new rollerblading, the forum doesn't get near as much traffic as IK discussions do.


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## mikesee (Aug 4, 2012)

Randaddy said:


> Thanks mikesee! I appreciate your sincere alology!
> 
> They created a SUP forum. Because SUP is the new rollerblading, the forum doesn't get near as much traffic as IK discussions do.


Holy handwringing, batman...


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## eyecon (Nov 18, 2015)

Found good video of the Force on some class IV+

Video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tb5oR3rOHRk


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## mikesee (Aug 4, 2012)

Embedding videos to illustrate is a good idea.


Low volume Mexico creeking:

https://vimeo.com/94900174



Westwater @ 5200 cfs:

https://vimeo.com/144517935



New and Gauley:

https://vimeo.com/139596354



Alaska steep creeks:

https://vimeo.com/131969465



Dinking in the WW park:

https://vimeo.com/124718513



10-day winter Grand Canyon self-support:

https://vimeo.com/119564901



Heap o' variety in the PNW:

https://vimeo.com/115153736



All POV shot from the cockpit of the above-linked Alpackalypse, with many other varieties of packraft represented in the vids.

Cheers,

MC​


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## eyecon (Nov 18, 2015)

here is a good video of a freestyle IK ....not sure what IK is used 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohySsS0qWzs&feature=player_detailpage#t=27


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## PhilipJFry (Apr 1, 2013)

eyecon said:


> here is a good video of a freestyle IK ....not sure what IK is used


That's a force


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## John_in_Loveland (Jun 9, 2011)

Both those Force videos showed me something on which I'd welcome comments. It looks like as if this kayak doesn't track well. They seem to be pointing the nose and stroking but the boat sometimes doesn't react, like it almost sideslips or there is a lag before moving. I see the paddlers taking strokes and the boat not immediately moving into that direction. If I remember my hardshell days, when you dig in, the boats almost jump in that direction particularly if you get them a bit on edge.

Am I seeing this right?

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Mountain Buzz mobile app


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## okieboater (Oct 19, 2004)

After many years of hard shell kayaks, I had an accident and am experimenting with IK's to get back on WW.

I have a Thrillseeker and an Aire Outfitter 1.

Just got the Outfitter and took it out to the Nantahala for a few days a month ago. A fun IK for me. Great down the middle. Hitting eddies is taking me time to get in sync. Seems to me that the IK's slide into a eddy and if I weight the edge like I used to in a hardshell, the IK catches and almost flips over. I like the feel of the outfitter tho and enjoy it. IK's to me do turn but lots of slide to deal with zero carving for me so far.

The Thrillseeker seems to me to be a hi performance IK compared to the Outfitter. Great down the middle, surfs, relatively fast, does ferry moves well and while it does seem to slide into eddies if I set up well the boat does seem to do ok.. Nothing like my old hard shells did tho.

I have seen the Thrillseekers do some pretty gnarly runs right up there with the hard shells. Gonna take me a lot of technique work to get it even close tho.

The Outfitter seems to me to be just a fun hit the river type of boat that is stable as a rock. Which can be an awfully good thing.


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## InflatableSteve (Jun 12, 2013)

John_in_Loveland said:


> Both those Force videos showed me something on which I'd welcome comments. It looks like as if this kayak doesn't track well. They seem to be pointing the nose and stroking but the boat sometimes doesn't react, like it almost sideslips or there is a lag before moving. I see the paddlers taking strokes and the boat not immediately moving into that direction. If I remember my hardshell days, when you dig in, the boats almost jump in that direction particularly if you get them a bit on edge.
> 
> Am I seeing this right?
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I545 using Mountain Buzz mobile app


Any Ik will do this. It is an inflatable, so it definitely won't be as responsive. You are going to give up some performance, but you are gaining a lot of comfort. The wind will affect an IK more as well. You might find your self getting spun around and having to run a rapid backwards. If you have no IK experience, see if there is someone in your area that will let you try one before your trip. Ik's are very forgiving, but you should at least have a pretty good idea of how they handle before you run class lll and up.


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## eyecon (Nov 18, 2015)

Crazy on a IK

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liIg6bS-bpw


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## k2andcannoli (Feb 28, 2012)

Love that stryder back deck roll, Jeff is a mad man.


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## eyecon (Nov 18, 2015)

Does the Aire Force or hell any of these IK's come with the air pump or bag?


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## PhilipJFry (Apr 1, 2013)

eyecon said:


> Does the Aire Force or hell any of these IK's come with the air pump or bag?


Of course... if you pay for the pump and the bag. The IK will come with whatever you pay for. Request it of the seller, and I'm sure they'll provide it for a price.


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## Learch (Jul 12, 2010)

eyecon said:


> Does the Aire Force or hell any of these IK's come with the air pump or bag?


 Aires come with a 10 year no fault warranty, a DVD, and a patch kit in a dry box. The DVD is instructional. I know some cheaper rafts (like Saturn) come with a basic hand pump and paddles, but I don't know of any Premium brand like Aire, NRS, Sotar or Hyside (to name a few) that come with anything but some basic instructions and a quality repair kit. Most of us have our own ideas about what pumps and paddles that we want, and you couldn't easily include a kayak paddle that would fit a large swath of paddlers. It just wouldn't be right to buy a high end product with a paddle that just didn't work.


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## eyecon (Nov 18, 2015)

Anyone have any experience with RMR Animas IK?? 

The price looks good and from most reviews it sounds good...but has anyone ever used one? 

Have a friend looking to get a new IK for next year for WW up to class 3+
He's got an older sea eagle...not sure the make


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