# Watch out at Lee's Ferry!!!!



## Grif (May 21, 2008)

Hey y'all, a good friend just sent me some informashun about sum durned fool ranger at the put in fer the Ditch. These are his words, but it sounds like we got us a real piece o' shit out there - might even give Dave the Lodore Ranger a run fer his money! So mind yer Pees and Cues, and watch yer drinkin' and smokin' at Lee's!

_Heads up! There's a new young Ranger at Lee's Ferry that is training to be a cop and looking to bust folks for anything he can. He is openly telling folks that he is sitting up in the rocks with binoculars, and watching for people that are drinking at the ramp and jumping in their cars. At the orientation he lets them know they are drinking to much.

In early March he entrapped a guy into getting into his car after drinking a beer and then tried to bust him! A lawyer on the trip informed the ranger how illegal, and inappropriate the stop was. The boater being hassled blew a .01. Barnie finally gave him a ticket for a prescription bottle he was using for his fishing lures.

So there's going to be an increase in BS at Lee's Ferry until this Barnie gets a job carrying a cop's badge in come cursed town. He's a permanent employee and will be at the park until he makes it onto a police force. 

This new Barnie may have no perspective on what people go through to get on the river and may be willing to bust someone any way he can, regardless of how minor the offense is or that it may completely screw the entire party's GC trip._


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## GC Guide (Apr 10, 2009)

True story! And, there are many more stories out there. At the old "place of business" he would watch with binocs from the parking lot, see a boat operator finish a beer then let them park the boat. As they drove their truck to load the boat on the ramp, said Barney, would pull them over and bust driver for DUI, and (he is so proud) BUI. Double whammy! SCARY!!


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## yak1 (Jan 28, 2006)

Perhaps someone should council the officer that Who he is public knowledge and that if he keeps it up he may walk out of his house one evening and get a blanket party. Not advocating it but there's such a thing a karma.


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## Gumbydamnit (Apr 2, 2008)

This is one of the reasons bullying is all over the media these days, people who get bullied can grow up to be serial killers or in this case some douche bag on a power trip getting back at the "cruel world" This ex hall monitor has had one too many swirrlies!!


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## F.A.A.C. Slim (Jan 14, 2010)

The set up includes having everyeone guzzling openly out of beer cans that have been emptied and re-filled with water.....when he makes his move to give citations, drink openly in his face without saying anything. When he breaks out his whiz quiz machine or mouth-o-meter comply without saying anything. After a few groups play this game he will know he has been had. After the trip be sure to write a written complaint saying he harrassed your group for drinking water. Management will get him gone after only a dozen same complaints 'cause the gov don't tolerate "patterns of abuse" by employees.

P.S. If you drink enough water, you might accidently piss on his boots while he has you occupied and won't let you go to the loo.


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## cayo 2 (Apr 20, 2007)

...or you could do what Gomer did and catch him in some minor infraction of his own and slap a
"Citercens arrest-citercens arrest" on him.


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## okieboater (Oct 19, 2004)

Complaints with dates, what happened and written in a respective manner to the head ranger will get this individual squared away.

If everyone who deals with this man and gets uncalled for hassling and sends in a written complaint will solve the problem. Send the letter to the head ranger and post here as well. No government agency wants to see their lack of customer service listed in plain view of the general public.


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## Snowolf (Apr 8, 2012)

While I have not launched any river trips from Lees, I do a lot of back packing in Marble Canyon and get my permits from there. If this newbie is causing a problem, I suggest talking to Peggy if she is still there. I have had nothing but great service when dealing with her. She seems to be a no bullshit kind of lady and from my dealings with her, a nice lady. I think if enough people complain about "barney" she might step in and reign him in.


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## GC Guide (Apr 10, 2009)

F.A.A.C. Slim said:


> The set up includes having everyeone guzzling openly out of beer cans that have been emptied and re-filled with water.....when he makes his move to give citations, drink openly in his face without saying anything. When he breaks out his whiz quiz machine or mouth-o-meter comply without saying anything. After a few groups play this game he will know he has been had. After the trip be sure to write a written complaint saying he harrassed your group for drinking water. Management will get him gone after only a dozen same complaints 'cause the gov don't tolerate "patterns of abuse" by employees.
> 
> P.S. If you drink enough water, you might accidently piss on his boots while he has you occupied and won't let you go to the loo.


This along with Okie's suggestions ARE the way to go. He can only be a douche at the Ferry for so long before getting stepped on. It greatly concerns me that one of his "goals" (and this is from a very good source) is to give a DUI to a commercial trip leader the night before launch so that he can be responsible for a commercial trip getting cancelled. REALLY?


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## whitewaterjunkie (Feb 8, 2006)

*Douchebag*

His name is Dan Hovanec and here's what he looks like.


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## BarryDingle (Mar 13, 2008)

Lol....fuckin Junior Rangers.


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## captishmael (Feb 8, 2008)

I think the dude has a scary attitude, and he's armed. Maybe advise him of a possible opening in the Ft Collins Police Force, they are always looking for a few more good men like this-
Officer caught on video pushing a citizen. - YouTube

I don't get it. The cop intentionally provoked the possibly inebriated citizen. When the provocation worked, the citizen gets arrested for Assaulting an Officer. If the cop truly wanted to create space between himself and dude boy, he could have done that without the physical provocation. Unprofessional, Ineffective, Dangerous. This is how stuff escalates, folks!


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## chepora (Feb 6, 2008)

If he is a bother..please write in and file a complaint against him. He works for us and is there to ensure a safe trip not harass boaters. His boss will never know the full extent of his douchebaggedness unless everyone who has an issue with him calls or writes in.


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## MountainMedic (Apr 24, 2010)

As a former ranger this makes me both angry & sad. There is a certain % of parks officers that are like this (went to academy with some).

Write letters, make calls. Senior rangers simply don't want to deal with bad pr or an officer that generates multiple complaints. He will be talked to, possibly re-assigned.


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## blutzski (Mar 31, 2004)

whitewaterjunkie said:


> His name is Dan Hovanec and here's what he looks like.


That's not him. No mustache. He must have a mustache. Of course he does have the shades and shoulders like a girl.... so maybe. Is he dry-humping that post?!?


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## GC Guide (Apr 10, 2009)

Nope, he looks to be 22 or 23, y.o. Let the writing campaign begin! And, SHAME on the F.C. cop!


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## Snowolf (Apr 8, 2012)

captishmael said:


> I think the dude has a scary attitude, and he's armed. Maybe advise him of a possible opening in the Ft Collins Police Force, they are always looking for a few more good men like this-
> Officer caught on video pushing a citizen. - YouTube
> 
> I don't get it. The cop intentionally provoked the possibly inebriated citizen. When the provocation worked, the citizen gets arrested for Assaulting an Officer. If the cop truly wanted to create space between himself and dude boy, he could have done that without the physical provocation. Unprofessional, Ineffective, Dangerous. This is how stuff escalates, folks!


This kind of thing along with junior ranger there is the kind of thing that we as Americans seem to take as normal and its a dangerous trend for our democracy. We have got to stop taking this Orwellian attitude from our public servants. Every time I see things like this, I slide a notch closer to becoming an anarchist. 

This ranger at Lees Ferry is no someone who should even be in this position and I agree with CG Guide and others, start a massive letter writing and phone call campaign against him. You guys don`t need to start a great Grand Canyon trip on a sour note because of a guy like this on a power trip.

We have a US Forest Service law enforcement thug on Mt. Hood who loves harassing skiers and snowboarders. He also hides in the trees with binocs and busts people for "safety meetings" in the trees on the slopes at the ski areas.

Cant stand people like this and I have to assume that these are very unhappy people with some deep psychological problems who just cant stand seeing people having a good time whether it be on a ski slope or launching a raft.


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## MacDaddy (Feb 6, 2009)

Hey fellow douche bag_ haters here is Dan the douche bags e-mail address and Phone number It time to be vocal .

ADMIN EDIT - Ranger's personal contact info removed, harassing him personally will not be constructive. If you have a problem with him please document the incident and provide that info to his superiors._


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## okieboater (Oct 19, 2004)

For what it is worth,
Calling or emailing the ranger in question is not going to do anything much to solve the problem.

Writing the facts down and sending them to the head ranger is going to be the most effective way to get this guy doing the right thing.


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## MountainMedic (Apr 24, 2010)

Yup. Harrasing a federal officer, no matter how fun it may seem, is a pretty bad idea. Talking to the fbi about terroristic threats is not how i like to start my day.


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## chepora (Feb 6, 2008)

Do NOT email the ranger. Email his superiors, and write very polite, nice letters on why you feel this ranger is not an appropriate pick for Lee's Ferry.


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## bluebtr (May 27, 2011)

There is nothing worse than a bored cop, especially one with a vindictive little man complex, an email and snailmail deluge to the park HQ will take care of him, just be positive and state that every other ranger has been courteous and helpful. I forget the rangers name but back in 98 my trusty old chevy with 250k miles developed an oil leak on the way to LF and he gave me 3 qts of oil and would'nt accept any money , GREAT guy! Hopfully this d bag will be sent packn SOON!


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## BarryDingle (Mar 13, 2008)

In the meantime,somebody please photoshop some dick and balls on his head


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## treehugger (Jul 29, 2009)

captishmael said:


> I think the dude has a scary attitude, and he's armed. Maybe advise him of a possible opening in the Ft Collins Police Force, they are always looking for a few more good men like this-
> Officer caught on video pushing a citizen. - YouTube
> 
> I don't get it. The cop intentionally provoked the possibly inebriated citizen. When the provocation worked, the citizen gets arrested for Assaulting an Officer. If the cop truly wanted to create space between himself and dude boy, he could have done that without the physical provocation. Unprofessional, Ineffective, Dangerous. This is how stuff escalates, folks!



Fort Collins Police are a nightmare. I was out at the bars one night and some stupid frat boys got in a fight. Police came in and maced the whole crowd that was trying to get out of their way. They all need to be sent to a real city with real crime until they figure out that there job is to protect and serve, not to harass and abuse. Also watch out for the WY state trooper in Saratoga near N Platte canyon. He has a black hole where his heart is supposed to be...... I wish the good cops would put pressure on these douche bags that give them all a bad name. Maybe talk them into joining some mercenary company over in sand land where they can get blown up and make the world a better place.


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## whip (Oct 23, 2003)

Daniel Hovanec Mug Shot


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## GC Guide (Apr 10, 2009)

whip said:


> Daniel Hovanec Mug Shot


 Way too old.......


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## GPP33 (May 22, 2004)

I love the irony of this thread. They dude is busting us for doing something illegal and we're going to write to his boss to complain and have him reassigned, like having a GC permit somehow makes us above the law. 

Now before you jump on my ass I understand the whole situation, it's a petty BS offense, that the FS has set a precedence of overlooking. The situation sucks and I hope he gets a new place to work or his attitude adjusted but it’s still funny that we're complaining about not being able to break the law.


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## okieboater (Oct 19, 2004)

"it's a petty BS offense, that the FS has set a precedence of overlooking"

That is just the problem. Based on what has been posted this officer is spending a lot of time on petty B/S things and using entrapment techniques to ticket folks for things that should be "overlooked". Drunk drivers should be put in jail, but my bet is very few folks get tipsy working their sweat glands over time in the blazing Arizona sun.

My bet is there are a lot more important to the safety of boaters and care of the Grand Canyon area that he could be doing than hiding in the bush playing sniper for folks who working and sweating big time in the open area at the rig area.


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## captishmael (Feb 8, 2008)

"_ but it’s still funny that we're complaining about not being able to break the law."_

I don't think that's the issue. We live in a very complex society with an immense number of often contradicting laws. I have no doubt that every one of us is somehow breaking some law every day. No doubt whatsoever. The issue becomes one of overzealous law enforcement, possibly with underlying social issues, trapping a citizen with the letter of the law. Let law enforcement personnel enforce the intent of the law, no one on this thread has yet complained about that. To intentionally create a situation where the average Joe is in violation of a statute? That's not law enforcement, that's totalitarian fascism. 

Just my two cents worth.


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## moetown (May 8, 2007)

*High and Tight*

It seems the Lee's Ferry Rangers have run a pretty good ship over the years. Peggy, and Dave have set up some pretty good rules to keep the ramp clear and working efficiently. Working it day in and day out must get old and they are pretty approachable and still work the humor when given the chance.

It might be good to use the info to the advantage and not give him anything to ruin the trip. High and Tight at Lee's Ferry Negative testimonials might eddy him out at Lee's Ferry forever


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

If you consume a beer and then drive...

Are you drunk? Nope.
Are you under the influence? Possibly.


If you consume a fatty or carb-laden dinner...
...are you under the influence and possibly too tired to drive while your body is busier digesing all those carbs? Probably.

DWI is a crime and if you're over 0.08, you're legally intoxicated and shouldn't drive.

DUI (officer's opinion and under 0.08) is IMHO unenforceable.


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## yesimapirate (Oct 18, 2010)

For some reason Farva comes to mind. 

super troopers-literacola - YouTube


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## okieboater (Oct 19, 2004)

*Peggy and Dave*

It would be a good thing for every one if Peggy and Dave would set down with this young pup and have a heart to heart talk on how to get the Ranger's job done at the put in rig area while keeping all parties happy.

It is stressful enough getting things set up on rig day without some untrained pup of a gun toting officer running around making the process much more difficult than it should be.


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## Canada (Oct 24, 2006)

*This thread reminds me of the Delores thread*

where everyone complained about the rangers catching them smoking pot and then showed up in court where all of their comments here were presented to the judge. 

If I were a GC guide, the last thing I would want to do is risk my career to attack some ranger on the internet. If I were going on a trip, the last thing I would want to do is make the ranger checking me in angry. 

Thanks for the heads up about staying sober at Lees Ferry. There will be plenty of time to catch a buzz down stream.


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## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

I think he got a good talking to, because he was awesome to us. Apparently the trip in question received big apologies from the river rangers, after hearing of the mess. The story (as heard from multiple trip members) sounded horrid. Not just baiting them to drive but completely tossing a vehicle. Three weeks later the same ranger reminded us to watch ourselves driving rigs with beer, especially moving to park and driving up to Marble Canyon. He even ignored Peggy when she pointed out we had 4 rigs on the ramp. Perhaps the death the night before also helped them settle down, put things in perspective. He could have rejected one of our trip members ID's also, and accepted it, whew!


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## upshitscreek (Oct 21, 2007)

Canada said:


> If I were a GC guide, the last thing I would want to do is risk my career to attack some ranger on the internet. If I were going on a trip, the last thing I would want to do is make the ranger checking me in angry.


canada... maybe you should change your name to france or italy? 

oh, i guess canada is pretty good too after thinking on it...


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## restrac2000 (Mar 6, 2008)

We had an amazing experience with Peggy in 2010 but she was the only one there if I remember properly.

I definitely would not send a letter unless I had the experience first hand. At that point its nothing but gossip and hearsay. Let the folks with the experience write objective letters to the proper authorities.

Also doesn't hurt to always have a designated driver. Don't hop into a shuttle car with a buzz. There is some personal accountability there and a beer or two is not worth jeopardizing a trip. That is plain and simple to me.


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## slavetotheflyrod (Sep 2, 2009)

While it does sound like this guys taking his job a little too seriously, I will say I have more than a few times seen a few folks get falling down drunk while rigging up, only to then hop in the car and run shuttle. 

Point is - if you're not breaking any laws there's only so much he can do to harass you.


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## Snowolf (Apr 8, 2012)

okieboater said:


> It would be a good thing for every one if Peggy and Dave would set down with this young pup and have a heart to heart talk on how to get the Ranger's job done at the put in rig area while keeping all parties happy.
> 
> It is stressful enough getting things set up on rig day without some untrained pup of a gun toting officer running around making the process much more difficult than it should be.



I will second the sentiment with regard to Peggy. I have not met Dave, but Peggy was super cool to work with on a hiking permit into ryder Canyon and camp at House Rock. My buddy and I had gotten wrong information about buying our permit at Cliff Dwellers but we met up with Peggy at Charlies place and had lunch with her then drove back to Lees where she got us all fixed up. Very friendly, helpful and super professional. We need more Peggy`s in the Park Service!


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## richp (Feb 27, 2005)

Hi,

Several recent posts suggest that this situation may already be resolving itself. But here's a couple of things to ponder.

Old timers here may recall that when Dave arrived at the Ferry, he was regarded as being a bit overly strict as well. IIRC, he had previously been stationed down on Lake Mead, where he had to deal with heavily armed gangs, drunks, and drugs as a normal part of his daily duty. One might suppose he had to recalibrate his LE antenna to the new environment. And it certainly seems he has, at least in my experience. Peggy likewise seems to have achieved a nice balance with boaters and our issues, while still enforcing the necessary stuff. 

So now consider. If the email address provided for this new ranger is accurate, he's from Glen Canyon NRA. The problems encountered up there are quite different than those at Lees Ferry. So we might suppose a similar recalibration could be taking place. 

Having said all that, a bit of moderation in public behavior seems advisable. You never can tell when a visiting bus passenger or aggravated fisherman might see you doing something that should really have waited until you got around the first bend. Ask the folks who had a real trip snafu a few years ago, when a tourist turned them in for drug use on the ramp. 

FWIW.

Rich Phillips


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## Rich (Sep 14, 2006)

Other than the checkin, how was your trip?




lhowemt said:


> I think he got a good talking to, because he was awesome to us. Apparently the trip in question received big apologies from the river rangers, after hearing of the mess. The story (as heard from multiple trip members) sounded horrid. Not just baiting them to drive but completely tossing a vehicle. Three weeks later the same ranger reminded us to watch ourselves driving rigs with beer, especially moving to park and driving up to Marble Canyon. He even ignored Peggy when she pointed out we had 4 rigs on the ramp. Perhaps the death the night before also helped them settle down, put things in perspective. He could have rejected one of our trip members ID's also, and accepted it, whew!


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## GC Guide (Apr 10, 2009)

We need more Peggy`s in the Park Service![/QUOTE]

Agreed!

" Old timers here may recall that when Dave arrived at the Ferry, he was regarded as being a bit overly strict as well. IIRC, he had previously been stationed down on Lake Mead, where he had to deal with heavily armed gangs, drunks, and drugs as a normal part of his daily duty. One might suppose he had to recalibrate his LE antenna to the new environment. And it certainly seems he has, at least in my experience. Peggy likewise seems to have achieved a nice balance with boaters and our issues, while still enforcing the necessary stuff. "

Again! Agreed! The river, no matter how you experience it, can be a life changer! (duh) I think there may be hope. Word is out, commercial and private. P's and Q's..... Easy!


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## rsmiller (Jun 28, 2004)

Dan checked our gear for our early launch in March. Great guy and had no problems.... stood with a beer in my hand chatting with him as w looked through gear.


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## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

Rich said:


> Other than the checkin, how was your trip?


Blissful, divine, magical, heavenly, otherwordly.


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## Rich (Sep 14, 2006)

Many first hand posts on yahoo whitewater groups (GCPBA, Idaho, GC Rafters & Utah Rafters) with details about new ranger and his run in with a group with 3 lawyers. Funny & sad. Sounds like his goal is to spoil someones trip.

Now I KNOW no one on this board would show up at Lee's Ferry with "reefer madness", BUT this guy is looking to jail a trip leader on a DUI.

Careful out there!


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## Phil U. (Feb 7, 2009)

lhowemt said:


> Blissful, divine, magical, heavenly, otherwordly.



Yes!!!!


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## GC Guide (Apr 10, 2009)

lhowemt said:


> Blissful, divine, magical, heavenly, otherwordly.


Hmmm.... Yup! That's right!!


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## Canada (Oct 24, 2006)

*Go to his manager.*

I once ended up at the jail for a trumped up charge from an overzealous ranger. The next day I met with his boss. Because his boss knew me he knew I wasn't lying about what went down. The charges against me and my friends were dropped and that ranger was quietly moved on as well. I think launching an internet stalker attack on a federal employee will end badly for someone.(Not saying that is going down here at this point at all.)


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## Ture (Apr 12, 2004)

whitewaterjunkie said:


> His name is Dan Hovanec and here's what he looks like.












He is masturbating in that photo.

Seriously though, he needs to go. It is so stressful to get ready for a GC trip. I was not in a relaxed state of mind when I was gearing up on that beach... I wanted to get on the water after years of preparation and about 6 months of last minute craziness. 

If someone had gotten in my face about a can of Coors Light, cop or not, on that day then someone could have gotten hurt, I just couldn't predict my behavior in a bullshit situation like that.

Get that guy out of there before some old boater ends up in prison for pistol whipping that kid with his own gun.


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## shappattack (Jul 17, 2008)

*one way to fix the problem*

one way to fix governmental budgets and loosen up the fuzz on us, legalize it!


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## swimteam101 (Jul 1, 2008)

*Vote in Nov*

It's going to happen this November in Colorado!!!


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## mania (Oct 21, 2003)

Closing this thread due to veiled threats, personal attacks, etc.


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## Andy H. (Oct 13, 2003)

As an epilog to this whole discussion, here are some correspondence from the GCPBA list below that provide context and perspective. 

NOTE - I had nothing to do with any of the trips below, have not met the ranger, and have no personal experience with this issue other than to have read many of the posts on this and other venues. I also removed inappropriate information someone posted regarding the ranger in question. Please do not address any questions about this issue to me. 

Here's a the first-hand account the episode in the original post appears to be based on:


----Original Message-----
From: On Behalf Of Jim Siebe
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 11:52 AM
To: 
Subject: [gcpba] Tubby's post on Utahrafters Concerning " Big Brother is Alive and Well at Lees Ferry"



Tubby's post obviously refers to an experience we had with ranger Dan on March 4, 2012 at Lees Ferry. Upon my return home, I typed up a trip report and chronology of how he hassled us at the put-in, but I lost everything when my stinkin' computer froze up. As busy as I've been after being gone for 3 1/2 weeks, I decided to let bygones be bygones until I saw the post. Unfortunately, I misplaced my note logging his last name, but it was of eastern European origin.

There were twelve (12) people on the trip, and nine boats. Eight of us ranged in age from 59-66. Another was 52, and three were 25, 26 and 32 (incidentally all three are commercial guides on other rivers and are serious about boating). All but one had been down the river multiple times; one of us, the imputed 66 year old DUI artist had been down approximately 20 times. Incidentally, our group included three criminal defense attorneys (I am one).

Another launchee and I had driven my truck, trailer and two boats straight down from North Idaho; an 18 hour jam. We stopped at Page and purchased ice, fresh food and beer. We arrived at the ramp around 1:00 p.m. to rig for the next day's launch. The 66 year old (John) is a dear friend that I had not seen or boated with for five years, so I offered him a beer shortly after I stepped out of the truck. 

Ranger Dan (that may be a little too endearing, so hereafter I wil refer to him as "B.C.", short for "Bad Cop") immediately sought me out as trip leader (accosted me might be a better description) and started pressing me for paperwork. He promptly rejected two lifejackets for faulty straps. He also rejected our fire extinguisher, resulting in our leaving the two 2 hp four stroke motors we planned on using from Diamond down in our rigs. Amazingly, he then told me that he had cause to cancel my permit, because another member of our group (a 62 year old) had possessed an open container of alcohol in his vehicle. I didn't take a threat of that magnitude lightly, especially since he had no cause to cancel my trip for something another individual might have done that was totally unconnected to my activities or the river trip. (The offender in that instance was driving a crew cab containing a cardboard box on the back seat with a half gallon whiskey bottle that had been opened and duct-taped shut. No one in the vehicle had been drinking, period, let alone from that bottle.)

B.C. then told John to move his truck (we were the only ones rigging there, but rules are rules). As my friend set his beer down and started for the truck, he asked him if he was ok to drive. He answered "yes" and B.C. made no attempt to stop him. Immediately after ignition, while starting to back up, B.C. yelled for him to stop, informed him that he had not attached his seatbelt, and ordered him out of the truck to perform field sobriety tests. John told him he had consumed less than 2 beers (I observed no indica of intoxication, myself). Nevertheless, he made a spectacle of my friend and subjected us to a several hour ordeal as set out below. 

I went up to B.C. and asked what the problem was and was told to stand clear as I "was obstructing a DUI investigation". (The community caretaking function as cops lovingly refer to it, allows them to have friendly contacts without reasonable suspicion, in order to make certain drivers or the community are safe. While allowing John to walk the 50 feet to his truck after asking if he was ok to drive seems to conflict with that function- if he was genuinely was concerned for everyone's safety, Arizona seat belt laws are secondary, meaning an officer cannot pull a driver over if he observes that a seatbelt is not attached- he or she can only ticket you for the same if you are stopped for another violation). 

B.C. then subjected John to over an hour of testing, while our and another group that had just arrived, watched. Having prosecuted and defended in excess of 5,000 DUIs in a 33 year legal career, I cringed to see how poorly he administered the tests. At one point, B.C. read from a a manual while he tested my friend. That aside, NHTSA and health experts warn that field balance tests are not approved for those over 60 years of age. B.C. also failed to adequately demonstrate the tests. After a seemingly interminable period of time (and readministration of the tests, over and over), he gave John a breath test. The result was .012, or less than one sixth of the required amount to constitute a DUI. After letting John go, B.C. came up to me and lamely stated that they had experienced trouble with people speeding at the put-in and that last summer someone had almost run over a three-year-old girl.

Before resuming inspection of our remaining gear, B.C. walked past another truck and spied an unmarked prescription bottle lying on the seat, whereupon he reached in, seized it and asked that truck owner (also another John) what was in the bottle. John told him it contained fishing lures (he had purchased an Arizona fishing license and was looking forward to fishing for Stripers below Separation Canyon). B.C. then went off on a rant, stating that unmarked pill bottles were suspicious and that using one in that fashion was improper. He warned that John that he was going to test the contents and that if it contained even a residue of a controlled substance, he'd arrest him for a felony. He also grilled John about whether there were any other drugs in the truck. At some point, B.C. opened the medicine bottle, inspected and smelled it and pronounced that it had once contained marijuana. He donned latex gloves and announced that he was going to search the vehicle. I approached to question this latest round of harassment and was again told to stand clear, as I was interfering with an investigation. B.C. then announced that if he found any marijuana he was going to search all of our boats. While tossing the truck, he grilled John about how he knew us, whether he knew if anyone in the group smoked marijuana, and other particulars that were none of his business. He fished items from the glove box, under the seat, and emptied bags and boxes. Contents were strewn everywhere just like you'd expect if cops tossed a house pursuant to a search warrant. He then left with some muscle relaxers, antibiotics, the infamous fishing lure pill bottle and John for testing and further interrogation. Not finding anything illegal, he returned, and again warned us that pill bottles weren't meant for such use. No citations of any kind were issued.

B.C. pulled me aside and told me that we were a bunch of troublemakers (all three lawyers and rest of the group had bitten our lips and had said nothing during this fiasco, which ultimately meant that we rigged until dark). He again threatened me to pull my permit. When I asked what was the matter at that point, he pointed to several people who were drinking beers. I told him that there was nothing illegal about that, that it was a warm day and that none of them planned on driving. He responded: "It still doesn't look good". (Apparently that's what everyone rigging at Lees Ferry wants to do: look good). B.C. told me that we had better straighten out our act and that he was sending river rangers down to check on us after we launched.

The next morning , he gave us the talk and quiz, acting like we were pals and that nothing had ever happened. He used the phrase "River Karma' no less than half a dozen times. Then, as he was winding down, he cut things short, bolted the scene, and headed towards another group that had just pulled in, stating that he could smell marijuana. We didn't see any arrests, but their welcome must have resembed ours. When I later told an outfitter of the experience, he mentioned that B.C. was new and that he had bragged about hiking down under the rim on his days off to spy on camps with binoculars (we call that voyeurism in Idaho). 

Postscript: Aside from rigging in a rush, leaving some important things in my truck as a result of the distractions, thinking at various times I might have to drive to Page to bail people out of jail and then delay our launch while I ran down lawyers for my friends, the interruption precluded my driving back Page to buy a new fire extinguisher, which was a sore spot as at times we battled 30-50 mph winds the last 50 miles of the 18 day, 290 mile trip. 

Several days later a group of river rangers rolled into our camp at Lava, where we chose to lay over to hike. They were very conciliatory and apologized, telling us that they had heard about our travails from another group. They explained that B.C. was new and gave us a large dry bag full of firewood. Below Separation, we spoke with another group of mostly retired NPS personnel. The leader also told us that B.C. was new- just out of the "academy" and that it would take some time for him to learn people skills and to become a ranger. 

My take: Anyone with a badge, bullet-proof vest and a gun is not there to help. It appears that the focus of interest at Lees Ferry is what is in the vehicles or on the boats at the ramp, just like any other traffic stop. Reflecting back on a few years of experience with cops makes this all the less surprising. (Don't forget that 5 years ago (right before my last launch) the Coconino County Sheriff brought drug dogs down to the ramp to check boats...)

Jim Siebe


-----Original Message-----
From: On Behalf Of rymndbligh
Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2012 11:58 AM
To: 
Subject: [gcpba] Big Brother


Having been the first of our group to be accosted by Ranger Dan (AKA BC) on the now infamous Siebe trip March 5th, I feel the need to respond to the follow-up threads.

Early afternoon, on March 4th having just inflated 2 rafts & 1 cat, I was now busy with pre-launch rigging. While observing BC coming around the corner. I realized with the new arrival of Siebe & Chuck that our group now had 3 vehicles on the launch. The other pre-launch group had no vehicles on the launch. Being a retired D.O.E. government employee myself I know how some government employees can be a stickler for rules.
So jumping into Mike Scott's truck, i attempted to move off the launch in order to avoid any hassles.

While driving up the incline at about 3 mph, BC jumped out of his vehicle & rather briskly walked up to intercept me. At that point I expected an ass-chewing for having too many vehicles on the launch. I was wrong. BC immediately informed me that he had observed I was not wearing a seat belt. i pointed to the parking space now 75' away that was my target stopping place and said "I was just going right there". 
BC now informed me that he could give me a $150 fine for not wearing my seat belt. At this point BC noticed a 3/4 full bottle of whiskey and asked me if I had been drinking. I responded "no sir I have not been drinking. I do not drink whiskey. That bottle belongs to Mike Scott." 
BC then informed me that he could issue me a citation for and open container. I pointed to Mike S who is also a retired government employee ( Lt. Colonel Air Force) and told him again that the whiskey was Mike's. BC asked me again if I had been drinking and my reponse was the same.

BC told me that everyone needs to be safer on the launch and that he does not want to see anyone hurt. He asked me for the third time if I had been drinking. This time my reponse probably resembled the stare-down Mike Tyson gave his opponents that he was soon going to thump. i am pretty sure my tone of voice changed also. "No sir I have not been drinking! I do not drink whiskey!" BC then turned and walked toward the launch.

I returned to launch myself and informed everyone of the situation and that they should keep any beer whiskey or any other substances under wraps and fasten their seat belts. I also warned all new arrival groups.

Siebe covered the rest of our hassle excellently like the professionial he is. I might add that BC also turned down our fire extinguisher that I had taken on a trip last June. As I was putting my 2hp honda into the truck, Ranger Dave informed me that it would not be safe as there had been a lot of vehicle break-ins at the overnite parking lot

I will conclude with this thought. Rangers at Lee's Ferry can not secure the overnite parking area but after 3 hrs of harrassment at launch, they sure seem to be protecting us from ourselves!

Ray Bligh


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## Andy H. (Oct 13, 2003)

From Rich Phillips, a GC veteran who posts here on MB and is one of those rare individuals that actually thinks before he hits the "submit" button when composing posts.


-----Original Message-----
From: On Behalf Of richphil47
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2012 9:33 AM
To:
Subject: [gcpba] Re: Tubby's post on Utahrafters Concerning " Big Brother is Alive and Well at Lees Ferry"

Hi,

Watching the trajectory of this story over five different boards/lists has been interesting. And trying to boil it down has been sort of hard, but here's the way I see it.

One day in early March, there indisputably was a prolonged and unpleasant episode on the ramp, witnessed by many reputable people. 

Later in that trip, there were indications that other NPS personnel already had become aware of the problem.

There has been a massive amount of internet commentary -- much of it speculative. We know the Park monitors the major lists and boards, so they surely are aware of the discourse that incident created.

The TL with the original problem has posted on another list that he has "forgiven" the ranger for what happened on the ramp. It's not clear whether he ever filed a formal complaint.

There have been subsequent posts by other boaters who report that more recently the ranger involved has treated them in decently.

IIRC, in Dave Chapman's early days at the Ferry, he was the cause of a lot of unfavorable comment on this and other lists. But today, I think that folks generally would recognize him as a decent guy who has struck a nice balance between the law enforcement requirements of his job and the practicalities of getting people on the river. Likewise with Peggy -- people almost uniformly describe good check-in experiences with her as well.

So where does that leave things? It well could be that after a little time in his new assignment, this individual has re-balanced his approach to the ramp and its transient inhabitants. Maybe after a bit of a rocky start, some guidance and OJT from the more experienced hands has had the intended effect. 

FWIW.

Rich Phillips


-----Original Message-----
From: On Behalf Of richphil47
Sent: Friday, April 20, 2012 9:35 AM
To: 
Subject: [gcpba] Re: Ranger rapid Class V, New Barney Hole formed

Hi DaveY,

Having followed this issue on five different venues (GCPBA, Idahowhitewater, Utahrafters, Rafting Grand Canyon, and Mountainbuzz), I think this has been a very troubling use of internet communications.

And I say this not to impugn for one moment Jim or others in his group, as they reported the events in question. Nor to depreciate the tension and aggravation that this episode surely created in the party launching that day. It undeniably was a bad way to start a GC river trip.

But what if this situation had been reversed? What if this had kicked off with an anonymous post (which is how it actually started, although Jim's first-hand account eventually emerged) that cast the boaters in a really bad light? Wouldn't we be beseiged with numerous cries of, "There are two sides to every story -- we also need to hear the boater's point of view before we decide?"

I don't know this ranger. I don't defend unreasonable tactics used by any LE officer. What I do defend is the concept of getting all the facts before slurring someone in a public forum, posting his picture, phone number, and email address -- all of which have been done on the internet in the last week. And I'd further object to over- generalizing one incident to the entire law enforcement community -- which also has been done. 

FWIW.

Rich Phillips

It got so bad at Mountainbuzz, they finally locked the thread. And folks who follow the Buzz know that the acceptable level of rowdiness and disrespect is set pretty high over there.


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## Andy H. (Oct 13, 2003)

Story of a trip that went well and launched about 3 weeks after the first event documented by someone with a bad experience:

-----Original Message-----
From: On Behalf Of Riverat
Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2012 12:19 PM
To:
Subject: Re: [gcpba] Tubby's post on Utahrafters Concerning " Big Brother is Alive and Well at Lees Ferry"

I just have to weigh in with my recent experience (March 26 & 27).

I first met Peggy in the gas station at Marble Canyon and could see that she was all business. When she ramp checked us a few hours later I had things pretty well organized for her to check out and it took less than an hour to complete. She double checked all of the PFD's. I had emphasized beforehand to the people in our group the importance of PFD's that would pass muster so we had no problems with that. Peggy also handled getting the dates for our arrival at Phantom for an exchange, our passing Diamond and arriving at Pearce changed at the last minute. 
I thank her for that.

The next morning we were given the lecture by Dan and were on our way without a problem. I also insisted that all of our group confirm to me that they had watched the video before we got to Lees Ferry.

By taking seriously the requirements our check out went smoothly with no more than the expected bureaucratic hassles and I had a good experience with the rangers.

If you have a negative attitude toward the rangers it may be reflected back on you.

Dave


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