# Worst Beta/Sandbag?



## festivus (Apr 22, 2006)

"I know this rapid is new, but we don't need to scout....

Third wave looks like a hole, but isn't. It will be fine. 

Just follow me."


A minute later... after 2 18ish foot rafts opened a yard sale of equipment and I was getting chundered in a kayak...

"Funny, not only did it look like a hole, it kinda feels like one too..."


----------



## benR (Aug 5, 2014)

Waterton is always just a class 3, even at flood stage 


Sent from my iPhone using Mountain Buzz


----------



## Shitouta (Apr 17, 2008)

In a small eddy above a large, misting horizon line on a steep stout big volume river in the Altai...In a thick Russian accent, the beta given before dropping in blind was...
"This.....is not a rapid"

Same scenario, different river the beta was
"This rapid.....Class four"

Same scenario, different river the beta was
"This rapid.....always middle. Watch for holes."

Russians give the best beta.


----------



## BrianK (Feb 3, 2005)

First time we ran the Slate we were eddy hoping looking for Wicked Wanda. We came to a horizon line, my friend took one step out of his boat and concluded: "This isn't it"
Me: "Anything to worry about?"
Him: "No just a little double drop, probably don't have to boof."

Cut to me and the scouter buddy surfing the hole/cauldron in wicked wanda while the third boater boofed on top of us.


----------



## Phil U. (Feb 7, 2009)

The New Testament failing to call the Virgin Narrows class 5...


----------



## jeffsssmith (Mar 31, 2007)

Phil U. said:


> The New Testament failing to call the Virgin Narrows class 5...


It's not class V. Maybe class IV at higher flows. Wood hazards exist which add danger but don't increase the class to V


Sent from my iPhone using Mountain Buzz


----------



## Panama Red (Feb 10, 2015)

Read and Run 

I'd take that deal n crawfish, then drill that ole devil in the ass.


----------



## Phil U. (Feb 7, 2009)

jeffsssmith said:


> It's not class V. Maybe class IV at higher flows. Wood hazards exist which add danger but don't increase the class to V
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Mountain Buzz


That was a joke, Jeff. There's been a tear or two shed here on the Buzz about this subject...


----------



## jeffsssmith (Mar 31, 2007)

Phil U. said:


> That was a joke, Jeff. There's been a tear or two shed here on the Buzz about this subject...


Ya got me. But it's a sensitive subject with me. The high limit of 600 CFS was set by the Zion National Park management for getting permits to kayak the Narrows based on their limited resources and some arbitrary opinions on what's considered high water in the Narrows. That all relates to misunderstandings about the true nature of the run which is sad for expert kayakers who are being punished for the actions of a few boaters that misunderstood the beta that they got. I'm all for spreading accurate beta so the river can maybe once again become "free."


Sent from my iPhone using Mountain Buzz


----------



## El Flaco (Nov 5, 2003)

Anything regarding Grape Creek.


----------



## Phil U. (Feb 7, 2009)

jeffsssmith said:


> Ya got me. But it's a sensitive subject with me. The high limit of 600 CFS was set by the Zion National Park management for getting permits to kayak the Narrows based on their limited resources and some arbitrary opinions on what's considered high water in the Narrows. That all relates to misunderstandings about the true nature of the run which is sad for expert kayakers who are being punished for the actions of a few boaters that misunderstood the beta that they got. I'm all for spreading accurate beta so the river can maybe once again become "free."
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Mountain Buzz


Umm, yes. I showed up the Monday after the two weekend chopper rescues that led the park to "close" the river. I had looked forward to that run for 20 years and I was finally there with decent water only to be threatened with arrest if I put on. 

And as I'm sure you know, the peak of the diurnal cycle there is at night so when it peaks at 600 you really only have half that during the day to float on.


----------



## Phil U. (Feb 7, 2009)

El Flaco said:


> Anything regarding Grape Creek.


Is there a beauty float in there below the mank?


----------



## jmacn (Nov 20, 2010)

Calling the Lower Cosanga at 12ft class three. "These Rapids are just busy..."


Sent from my iPhone using Mountain Buzz


----------



## Andy H. (Oct 13, 2003)

At the Upper Blue put-in, 1,400 cfs: 
"You're sure I can run this?"
Leader - "Yeah, no problem, you'll be fine!"

Eddied out above the Boulder Creek Rapid, loud roar ahead:
Leader - "How's it going?"
"I feel pretty good, that first part was fun!"
"Are you nervous?"
"No, this is great!"
"Well, you should be" leader peels out of eddy

-> Chundering


----------



## BrianK (Feb 3, 2005)

Actually my favorite story was when a boating partner sandbagged himself. We we're looking at Tunnel, and our hero looked at us and said, "You can plug the right side of the hole and just pop out the other side." 

Everyone scouting with us grumbled in disagreement.

"It's true. I've talked to a bunch of people that have done it. It works everytime."

We were not convinced, "That's a sticky hole - there's no way you're going to get through it."

"Maybe for you in your creekboats," he said "but I'm in a playboat. I'll just subout and resurface downstream." 

Our hero proceeded to test out his theory. He plugged the right side with a purpose and emerged in a glorious backender/backloop back into the hole. I'm pretty sure he lost a shoe in the ensuing beatdown. 

Fun fact - our hero in this story is the same as the scouter in my first story.


----------



## duct tape (Aug 25, 2009)

Says the race director at the Mascoma slalom, "Just save a little at the finish to get out before the low-head dam"...

Same guy a year earlier on my first whitewater kayak trip, this day on the East Branch of the Pemigewasset, "It's all easy read and run". .... Three swims later, "You're doing great, just try to miss the biggest holes". 

Different trip a couple of years later with a new trip leader (soon to be fired) on a second descent of some long forgotten river way north in Canada, "I think it gets easier from here". Followed by three consecutive 5-ish drops (by our 1979 standards) and then a Black Canyon-esque portage. 

Spring break trip to Nantahala March 1980. Wettest spring in years. Every river in full flood. Ran the Ocoee way higher than I've ever seen it since. I think by then the flume had already been closed. Says trip leader, "Maybe tomorrow we should try out Chatooga Section 4, all of the main features will be flooded".


----------



## Miller Time (Apr 3, 2009)

Best (worst) beta: 

'Don't follow me - you won't survive' 


Sent from my iPhone using Mountain Buzz


----------



## KSC (Oct 22, 2003)

jeffsssmith said:


> Ya got me. But it's a sensitive subject with me. The high limit of 600 CFS was set by the Zion National Park management for getting permits to kayak the Narrows based on their limited resources and some arbitrary opinions on what's considered high water in the Narrows. That all relates to misunderstandings about the true nature of the run which is sad for expert kayakers who are being punished for the actions of a few boaters that misunderstood the beta that they got. I'm all for spreading accurate beta so the river can maybe once again become "free."
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Mountain Buzz


Seems like a good AW project. Anyone know if this is on their radar?


----------



## jeffsssmith (Mar 31, 2007)

Phil U. said:


> Umm, yes. I showed up the Monday after the two weekend chopper rescues that led the park to "close" the river. I had looked forward to that run for 20 years and I was finally there with decent water only to be threatened with arrest if I put on.
> 
> And as I'm sure you know, the peak of the diurnal cycle there is at night so when it peaks at 600 you really only have half that during the day to float on.


Wow that sucks! I was lucky enough to get a run in there when it peaked at, no lie, 601 CFS and they let us in. Great level but it would be better with more water. 


Sent from my iPhone using Mountain Buzz


----------



## lmyers (Jun 10, 2008)

Phil U. said:


> Is there a beauty float in there below the mank?


I think the beauty float would be above the mank. I've looked at a spot or two, and done some satellite scouting via the internet, and it looks like a fun class II-III overnight to go from near the outlet of Deweese to the top of Temple Canyon.
Bear Gulch would provide alternate access, halfway through.


----------



## Phil U. (Feb 7, 2009)

lmyers said:


> I think the beauty float would be above the mank. I've looked at a spot or two, and done some satellite scouting via the internet, and it looks like a fun class II-III overnight to go from near the outlet of Deweese to the top of Temple Canyon.
> Bear Gulch would provide alternate access, halfway through.


I'm down...


----------



## almortal (Jun 22, 2014)

"The shuttle isn't too long"


----------

