# Are Duckies Dorky?



## southbound (May 20, 2008)

Was skiing at Wolf Creek in April’05 when some guys I was riding the lift with were saying they found it weird they had their ski’s and boats in the truck at the same time. So I went online the next week and ordered an Aire IK but felt sorta silly when I got out there and found out they were called duckies. But I did Brown’s my 3rd day out and pretty much every Class III this side of I-70 in CO and NM the first two summers I paddled. I can do a IV- rapid but not a continuous IV- run. I’m trying to surf some but I still suck. So I see all the gay duckie and dorky wussie stuff and its all good. Its just gonna make me paddle harder. And if you can give me any pointers on surfing and getting good enough to do continuous Class IV- I’d love to hear it.


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## 1whitewattafoo (Nov 25, 2007)

when ever I would surf those bad boys I would end up like wrapping my arm around the downstreem tube and could get pretty much verticle in the thing, then i baught a shredder.


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## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

What's dorky is standing on the side of the river, or sitting on your couch, because you're too worried about looking dorky to go shred it!

Inner tubes are dorky, anything with a paddle blade is definitely NOT dorky.

Maybe I should change my siggy for all you guys worried about looking cool? Something like "It takes a studly man to carry my pursue"? Nah, no one would get it. Go shred it, in anything, in the next thing, then the next. You got a boat of any sort, use it!

Remember, the eddy below the muffin rock in Hance in the GC is called "the duck pond". Nothing dorky about Hance.


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## Kellman (Oct 14, 2008)

...yes


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## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

Kellman said:


> ...yes


That would come from someone living in "Montana's Boulder (CO)". Must be a newby!  Or else a newby's baby?

SB, ignore the testosterone addicts - boat in whatever you have fun in.


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## danger (Oct 13, 2003)

they're up there with mopeds and snowblades. but at least you're getting after it.


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## caspermike (Mar 9, 2007)

not just the duckier is dorky.


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## goldcamp (Aug 9, 2006)

lhowemt said:


> What's dorky is standing on the side of the river, or sitting on your couch, because you're too worried about looking dorky to go shred it!
> 
> Inner tubes are dorky, anything with a paddle blade is definitely NOT dorky.
> 
> ...


I agree at least your getting after it. But I disagree with inner tubes being dorky. Tubing is about as hard core as you can get. I was running Upper Boulder Creek in with nothing but swim trunks and shoes before I ever considered getting a boat and wearing rudimentary safety equipment. :wink:


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## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

goldcamp said:


> I agree at least your getting after it. But I disagree with inner tubes being dorky. Tubing is about as hard core as you can get. I was running Upper Boulder Creek in with nothing but swim trunks and shoes before I ever considered getting a boat and wearing rudimentary safety equipment. :wink:


Yeah, and I tubed one or two times in a previous life. But in hindsight, you still think tubers aren't dorks? You must have different ones that us. Tubing is just NOT the sport it was when I did it. We were COOL tubers, not like the ones you see today. They're just a bunch of partying river-unsafe morons. Wait, maybe I'm talking about hard shell kayakers here? Or maybe tubers are just snowboarders in the summer?

Sheesh, I gotta get some work done and get off this forum for the day!


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## WyoPadlr1 (May 5, 2005)

*Depends on the paddler......*

My wife paddles an Aire "Force" that has thigh straps and a rigid foam floor. It's super maneuverable, surfs pretty well, and I've rolled it successfully several times, although she hasn't tried. She's paddled all of the S. Fork Payette, including the upper Canyon. She's done the Selway, Lochsa, most of the Grand Canyon, Granite Creek, the upper Gros Ventre, the Mishawaka & Bridges on the Poudre, and catches eddies better than most intermediate hard-shell kayakers. She just can't get her head around being upside down banging down the river, but she's willing to fall out of that thing and climb right back in it in moving water. I got in it for kicks at the local slalom race once, and took 4th place in the Men's class against regular kayaks. It's not the duckie's fault if it doesn't have a competent driver. 
Duckies/IK's are only dorky if you don't get the skills to handle yourself on the river in the first place. Learn how to be an asset out there, and not a liability. My wife and her duckie have rescued many a swimming kayaker. Try telling one of the Snyder brothers that IK's are gay, right after they've landed a 20footer in one standing up..........


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## El quapo (Apr 14, 2006)

caspermike said:


> not just the duckier is dorky.


Swing and a miss. Again.

Duckies are fine. Kayaking flat out isn't for everybody...doesnt mean it's the only way down a river. Who gives a shit what anyone else thinks. As long as your doin somethin.


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## WyoPadlr1 (May 5, 2005)

El quapo said:


> Swing and a miss. Again.
> 
> Duckies are fine. Kayaking flat out isn't for everybody...doesnt mean it's the only way down a river. Who gives a shit what anyone else thinks. As long as your doin somethin.


Totally agree, on all five counts


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## DurangoSteve (Jun 2, 2006)

You've got yer "purists" and yer "snobs" in any sport.

Nuttin' wrong with duckies.


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## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

WyoPadlr1 said:


> My wife paddles an Aire "Force" that has thigh straps and a rigid foam floor. She's paddled all of the S. Fork Payette, including the upper Canyon. She's done the Selway, Lochsa, most of the Grand Canyon, Granite Creek, the upper Gros Ventre, the Mishawaka & Bridges on the Poudre, and catches eddies better than most intermediate hard-shell kayakers.


Uber-women boaters rock!


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## TakemetotheRiver (Oct 4, 2007)

Seconds before squaring up on a hard shell kayaker who wouldn't stop playing in the next wave. We BOTH swam, and it was worth it.


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## kayapelli (Aug 18, 2005)

I'm a dyed in the wool hard-shell boater (canoes, c-1s and kayaks) but check out this link if you think duckies are dorky. Most hard-shell boaters would not do this stuff!
California Creeks - Whitewater Rafting and Kayaking

-Chris


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## yetigonecrazy (May 23, 2005)

El quapo said:


> Swing and a miss. Again.
> 
> Duckies are fine. Kayaking flat out isn't for everybody...doesnt mean it's the only way down a river. Who gives a shit what anyone else thinks. As long as your doin somethin.


amen brother!! i cant kayak because of a destroyed shoulder....i can paddle and i can swim, but i cant roll, so what does that leave me? in a ducky!


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## aevanlloyd (Dec 23, 2007)

Duckies are great for friends, girlfriends, and wives. People whom you want to take down the river, but not got through all the effort of teaching them the roll.


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## Jay H (May 20, 2005)

shit, it's not about plastic or rubber, dorky or cool--it's about the big smile on your face when you're running shit that is above your comfort level, and your making it through, and then you're through and you're like "man, that was AWESOME!!!"

if you like it then it's cool, who gives a fck what anybody else thinks...

most important thing in life--have fun!


go 'canes!


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## paddlebizzle (Oct 15, 2003)

lhowemt said:


> What's dorky is standing on the side of the river, or sitting on your couch, because you're too worried about looking dorky to go shred it!
> 
> Inner tubes are dorky, anything with a paddle blade is definitely NOT dorky.


I agree. Think of road biking: someone riding a triple chainring up front might get a few looks by elitists for being a sand-bagger but ultimately, you're both on a bike outside and promoting a great sport.

Same thing for duckies. You might get a few looks but if you're confident, show that you're having a great time, people should pretty much be stoked you're on the river.


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## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

Rockin photo K - an appropriate response for an UBER woman boater!


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## catfishjon (Jan 27, 2007)

yes. super duper dorky.


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## randomnature (Jun 10, 2007)

Most people chastised as dorks end up going on to start endeavors like Microsoft or Apple or Black Flag. Run a duckie if that is how you choose to enjoy the river.


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## Chip (Apr 7, 2007)

Cool shot, TakeMe. 

This cat-duckie (Jack's Fat Pack Cat) was my ride through the Grand, Lee's Ferry to Diamond Creek. There was a hardshell kayaker on the trip, and he swam a lot more than I did. In fact I saw more than one raft with a 'yak tied down across the back end. 









The helmet is dorky (my old MSR ice-climbing lid with a visor). But big water duckie trips are high-adrenaline for sure. Knowing that a roll isn't an option raises the stakes.


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## jeffsssmith (Mar 31, 2007)

Not IK, RD--or rubber ducky, or real dorky.


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## Randaddy (Jun 8, 2007)

Duckies are gayer than Richard Simmons with a six pack of wine coolers. They're fun though!


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## willieWAO (Jun 14, 2005)

Forget hard-shells and duckies! Meet the best of both worlds, the mighty perception torrent!!!!


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## junkshowriverchick (Oct 3, 2008)

'inner tubes are dorky, anything with a paddle blade is definitely NOT dorky.'

not true, sir! me and my river girls take inner tubes down large play waves, and we look good doing it! sometimes we do take paddles with us. buuut mostly we just sit on each other's laps and try to keep the thing upright. our record is 3 people on one tube through some huge waves on cataract canyon! meow!

oh and we also take down inflatable sharks and whales. damn right.


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## mania (Oct 21, 2003)

I think this should settle it. Catfish jon and kellman can you run this kinda stuff in your non-dorky boat? didn't think so. :roll:

more here riverlog: ELF Boating: Little White Salmon


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## FatmanZ (Sep 15, 2004)

*IK's rock!*

Inflatable kayaks rock - one of the best investments I've made. Anytime a newbie wants to try the sport - they go in the ducky. Anytime my boys want to go kayaking - I take them with me in the ducky. 
A friend of mine styled Browns his second time on a river using a ducky. The IK was great for him to learn the basics and from there he moved into a hardshell. 
On a trip down the Main Salmon at high flows we brought along an IK of sorts (mini cataraft, size of IK but more stable) just in case my sister in law got tired of riding raft. She tried the IK the afternoon of the first day - and ended up using it for the rest of the trip. She styled the 75+ remaining miles of big high water, making some of us in hardshells look like wimps. 

Downside to IK's - my cousin's boys started in them and preferred them over hardshells, especially on multi-day runs. The IK's enabled them to goof around (water fights, capture the IK, etc, etc) and have fun - they thought harshells were too restrictive (boring). 


-FMZ


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## caverdan (Aug 27, 2004)

junkshowriverchick said:


> not true, sir! me and my river girls take inner tubes down large play waves, and we look good doing it! sometimes we do take paddles with us. buuut mostly we just sit on each other's laps and try to keep the thing upright. our record is 3 people on one tube through some huge waves on cataract canyon! meow!


Three girls stacked on a tube = Hell yea.....not dorky at all. 

Three guys stacked on a tube = Not on my trip....sounds dorky as hell. 

Are IK's dorky? Only if you paint them pink and stuff them full of guys .....on each others laps. :mrgreen:


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## FLOWTORCH (Mar 5, 2004)

junkshowriverchick said:


> buuut mostly we just sit on each other's laps.....meow!


giggity giggity

Jesus, think i'm in love. Junkshowriverchic, get that junkshow in order and do that Grand trip in March wit us.

Duckies are fine. Duckies on the little white are sik.


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## SSOWDEN (Apr 29, 2004)

*more toys*

S(h)e who dies with the most toys wins.
quiver of hardshells-check
duck-check
sit on top-to come
big rubber-to come

I gotta catchup on the classics and start working on the "new"(at least to me) stuff, sup and river boarding.

What other stuff is out there, I don't care if it is dorky, gay or cool as long as it is fun?


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## sarahkonamojo (May 20, 2004)

What paddlebiz, a triple is dorky? OMG! Well, maybe, until I'm climbing near the top of Rist... When I need it, I'm glad it is there.

The river is what it is all about. And IK's make great beach sofas.

s


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## Kendo (Jul 26, 2006)

Are they dorkey? only when you paddle them down a river ,hehe just kidding.... Nah they aren't bad, not everyone is meant to paddle a hardshell, the roll is difficult for alot of people to feel comfortable with. I think a duckie helps you get down a river to see all the gloriuos features without being competent at the roll. a hard shell offers unlimited play though(more versatile)...
hey as long as you are out there, thats all that matters


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## Canada (Oct 24, 2006)

Any one in the woods who isn't in the group I am with using the same equipment I am is a whimp and a dork.


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## Smokey Carter (Aug 31, 2005)

mania said:


> I think this should settle it. Catfish jon and kellman can you run this kinda stuff in your non-dorky boat? didn't think so. :roll:
> 
> more here riverlog: ELF Boating: Little White Salmon


This is Scott Waidelich with Canoe and Kayak magazine. Dude's a badass - in any craft.


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## boatmusher (Jun 18, 2008)

Duckies are like fat chicks and scooters..... Fun to ride, just don't let your friends see you on one!


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## junkshowriverchick (Oct 3, 2008)

march 2010 im all about the grand- THIS march will be a junk show of college classes, a WFR class, and possibly going to germany. if youre planning a crazy fun group in 2010 keep me posted. i definitely want to get on in march/april.

ill be in moab this summer though, where i'll be honing my tubing, kayaking, and rafting skills...not to mention significantly increasing my alcohol tolerance. yeah! substance abuse in boating- isnt it really just performance enhancing behavior?


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## junkshowriverchick (Oct 3, 2008)

haha aw, fat chicks. that was kinda mean!
on the other hand, scooters are dorky and should never be ridden in public. or at all. i agree.


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## boatmusher (Jun 18, 2008)

Come on.... Lots of guys like both fat chicks and scooters! I'm not one of them. But who is to knock it..... FLOWTORCH?


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## milo (Apr 21, 2004)

*....gayness happens....*

....once upon a time, a long, long time ago...in a prehistoric land not too far from here(MONTROSE) i found my self on the deflated backseat of a pinkish-purple inflatable canoe(ducky?)...........................drinking beer at the eldo one night describing a previous trips' "highlights" to my very best buddy, he looks at me thru the PBR haze and says... " i wanna see it from the bottom"....my very competent climber buddy wanted to see the canyon from river level!!...he was a super rookie in a hard shell(hurricane).... he got BROWN'S CANYON on day 1 or 2 @5300cfs...cranked out 5 rolls......UPPER TAYLOR @ 2900....got his ass kicked on the TAYLOR that day but stomped all other easier runs we "took" him on.....finally, he'd had enough for a couple of seasons.... being a BLACK CANYON veteran climber and my roomate he'd heard it all...i decided to borrow a duckie for him...told my other buddy, "got a date with a hot blonde...can i use your wife's duckie for the date?...we wanna go hit the LOWER GUNNY"....i never planned on gettin in the thing...i just wanted to "SAFETY" boat...it's just that it had two seats when we unrolled it at the put-in....READ: always check your inflatable(to see what the fuk it is 1st) for leaks/patch kit/pump....my bro instantly claims that since it has 2 seats(gay little fukers) it must "NEED" 2 people to work out right or "give 'er"........shit, one of lifes' suprises i thought to myself ...pumped it up and off we went....i was suprised how well we did in the shit we ran.......eventually i could see my boy was "peaking" or "red linin'"....the drop above BALL CRUSHER had REALLY tested us and the badly sinking inflatable....barely got out above B. CRUSHER!....he smoked several camels while looking at the drop we almost floated into....so, we "bailed" halfway thru the HELL portage and went out "CRUISE GULLEY".....7.5hrs from B. CRUSHER to the N. RIM campground....13.5 hrs, start to our first "borrowed beer" at the rim.....i never felt dorky or gay(festive)....maybe a bit "silly" at times but that may have been the just the situation we put ourselves in.....READ: I DO NOT AND WILL NOT RECOMMEND THE BLACK CANYON TO ENTHUSIASTS OF INFLATABLES UNLESS YOU ARE A SICK CHOP....we just had "beginners luck".....neither one of us had ever tried a duckie before....feelin'dorkynow420cb....


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## FLOWTORCH (Mar 5, 2004)

Hilarious comment there, bet it got _tons_ of laughs. 

Go back to being irrelevant douchebag, before I donkey punch your mom in the back of the head for you.


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## caspermike (Mar 9, 2007)

good to see whitechocolatte's mom on the board for once. (puking)


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## FLOWTORCH (Mar 5, 2004)

...wait a second...boatmuncher, is this scotty?


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## boatmusher (Jun 18, 2008)

FLOWTORCH said:


> ...wait a second...boatmuncher, is this scotty?




Yeah, before you go taking insult to everything.... I was just throwing out some bro love to a "Grand" friend. Just keeping you on your toes, brother. Besides... Anyone who hasn't taken a scooter for a ride...


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## FLOWTORCH (Mar 5, 2004)

Ooo you asshole, way to sneak up on me ya fawker!  It clicked all of a sudden! You'll have to forgive me i'm a wittle slow. 

But I stand by what i said. I will bend that mother over her suzuki and kic.....aww, I cant say it...with them bein Holy and all.  Thanks for keepin me on my toes. 

And who you kiddin, you the love the thick ones...nothin wrong with a slumpbuster big guy.


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## paulk (Apr 24, 2006)

*I love watching duckies*

best carnage I saw this year on one of Poudre Rive Kayaks legendary class V ducky trips. 8 men enter, one man leave.Charley everywhere. A few duckies on fire. Swam pinewiew in a ducky at 3.5 trying to surf the hole. Those things are terrifying.


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## caspermike (Mar 9, 2007)

snap out of it, your rant sounded like some half vietnam flash back /half carnage bull shit. "finish the fucking story man" as said by the late and great Hunter S.Thompson


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## LSB (Mar 23, 2004)

Back on topic..... those back east guys used to run some sick stuff in Thrillseekers. They were a stiff foam bottom duckie with small tubes and thigh straps made by a guy named Atilla. The theory was that you could run shallow drops and not vertical pin because they flexed. I got in one and rolled it once but never really paddled one .... wouldnt want the other kids to see me running a fat chick after all.


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## hojo (Jun 26, 2008)

The purists are pussies. Why? (like you really care) Because they're not really purists.

They're just pompous posers...

As I've had to explain before, if you think your kayak or canoe is the real shit then you must either have a seal skinned Inuit kayak or an oak boat that Powell used, because your plastic abomination is no more "real" or "better" than an inflatable kayak. So, I'll bow to the purists when I actually see one.

So, I'll paddle a dorky duckie, or a C1, C2, OC1, OC2, Raft, tube, creature craft, river board, standup paddle board or whatever’s appropriate for your skill and the type of water. Hell.. anyone who's really in love with whitewater should love to get out and swim the swimmer-friendly rapids!

Now, you want to see dorks.. Those people who do that Canoe Poling… they’re just down right evil.


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## paddlebizzle (Oct 15, 2003)

sarahkonamojo said:


> What paddlebiz, a triple is dorky? OMG! Well, maybe, until I'm climbing near the top of Rist... When I need it, I'm glad it is there.
> 
> The river is what it is all about. And IK's make great beach sofas.
> 
> s


Sarah...if you have a triple, you need to be in better shape - sorry. Of course I'm super macho and I can ride a fixed gear backwards uphill faster than most roadies alive. 

Water's gettin' low....this post has over 1000 hits and its about duckies...


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## Chip (Apr 7, 2007)

I like to get wet. Bash through waves and feel the water, head to toe. Feel the sun on my thighs. Wiggle my toes in the river.  

Sure, once you get the roll and the basics, a hardshell is damn sure easier to paddle in hard rapids, and you can run stuff that's chancy in a duck. 

But (personal prejudice looming up here) it makes me feel like I'm hermetically sealed in a streamlined Porta-Potty from the waist down. 

No problem with most of you liking that. But I don't.


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## cold77 (Nov 16, 2008)

Are those Alpacka Rafts considered duckies? 

See Alpacka Raft LLC - The World's Finest Packrafts
or search packrafting on YouTube


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## cold77 (Nov 16, 2008)

Alpackas on steep creeks in Alaska






Lighter and more maneuverable than IKs, but not pointy so probably not so good on bigger drops.

Maybe good for some remote first descents?


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## caverdan (Aug 27, 2004)

I watched a guy run Gore rapid a number of years ago in a ducky........standing up......with a really long paddle.......and a wooden helmet on his head. It looked kind of dorky.....but very cool at the same time. 

So are stand up duckies the next revolution to take over this sport?


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## cayo 2 (Apr 20, 2007)

Those Alpacas are sweet for carrying into remote areas ,light[4 lbs.or 6 lbs] and compact + huge tubes = forgiving, but I don't know about more maneuverable,they are shorter but donut shaped,and durability is an issue ,no mank the material is too light.That video looked fun ,nice little creek too,but you could see it was hard to keep the boat straight and you get back endered on big pour overs because you sit so far back.It is so buoyant and blunt that you don;t go deep at all.I would say they are 2/3 's ducky one third tube.Are they self bailing?That flimsy skirt would implode in big waves and bathtub the boat,not trying to dog them ,I'd like to have one ,just think their application is limited.Not a good boat for front range mankskateer.


There are big differences among duckies ; bigger tubes and wider equals forgiving,smaller duckies require more skill.The outfitting makes a huge difference a lot of the thigh strap and foot braces are ineffective,the side tube mounted foot braces work a lot better and are more adjustable,the thwarts and thigh straps tend to be back a little too far back,look for ones you can move forward easily.Using displacement/float bags helps a lot too.You start pushing it too far you may as well kayak since you need skills anyway and are more exposed when self rescuing or swimming than when rolling,it is easier to get out of pins and is the easiest boat for others to chase down.Rambling on here I love duckying but admit hardshells are better have been kayaking more often the last couple years ,but can't give up the duck .


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## cayo 2 (Apr 20, 2007)

Caverdan that sounds like Jeff Snyder striding,no ordinary paddler!!!There are about a half a dozen guys striding class 5 stuff.I think the boards made for stand up paddling are better in general,maybe to run harder stuff you would need the added buoyancy and foot cups ,as stand up gets more popular it is natural people will try to run harder stuff so it[striding] probably will get more popular.


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## CanyonEJ (Jul 28, 2008)

Wish I had the balls to do this... 

YouTube - Alpacka Raft creek decent

My buddy's brother is doing a lot of cool shit in Alpacka Rafts. There's other awesome video's also.

Edit: If you check out the rest of his video's, check out Lime Creamsickle and Salty Schnitzel


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## mania (Oct 21, 2003)

I think one of those guys is my buddy Roman - he had an alpaca while we were on the grand last january. they swam a bit but had no major problems really.


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## cold77 (Nov 16, 2008)

cayo 2:

No they are not self-bailing: everything you said pretty much seems right on


cayo 2 said:


> Those Alpacas are sweet for carrying into remote areas ,light[4 lbs.] and compact + huge tubes = forgiving...That video looked fun ,nice little creek too,but you could see it was hard to keep the boat straight and you get back endered on big pour overs because you sit so far back.It is so buoyant and blunt that you don;t go deep at all.I would say they are 2/3 's ducky one third tube.
> 
> 
> There are big differences among duckies ; bigger tubes and wider equals forgiving,smaller duckies require more skill. ....You start pushing it too far you may as well kayak since you need skills anyway and are more exposed when self rescuing or swimming than when rolling, it is easier to get out of pins and is the easiest boat for others to chase down. .


Guess I am pretty much interested in pioneering a new boat and finding its limits and looking for others who are doing same. They are surprisingly durable - but I think, since I was never a hardshell boater -- at least not in this century -- I don't really know how to hardshell boat. And my experience in the IKs was that I had trouble getting them to turn as quickly as I was used to in a packraft.

The Media Feliz boys (videos of: Dingford, Salt, Lime, Fossil) are hucking and falling, and Hig and Erin (Ground Truth Trekking Blog) are "sea-rafting", but big rivers and technical creeks appeal more to me: stuff that takes seeing/finding and especially holding thin lines. I'm too old, brittle, and testosterone dried to huck! And (maybe nervous to admit here) like to walk 'till my feet hurt then boat 'till the view from the water's boring me.

So for long walks combined with water to Class III+ or IV- (too much technical boating and the load needs to be really light) the packraft's cool. Becaause so few people are doing it, it's hard to know what the really good palces to do it might be.

Escalante, Dirt Devil, Canyonlands Rivers (Green & CO), Cataract Canyon are all turning into popular packraft spots, I hear.


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## yetigonecrazy (May 23, 2005)

mania said:


> they swam a bit but had no major problems really.


thats pretty much the attitude i have when i ducky. i throw down and yes, i'll swim once in a while, but what it comes down to is me trusting myself in a swim over worrying about my shoulder in a roll.........swimming is fun and enjoyable, dislocating your shoulder trying to snap off a roll is not

the fact that this thread is 7 pages long and has over 50 replies astounds me. there is also a lot more support, or at least acceptance, of them than i thought as well. i figured most people hated them, but i imagine there is a larger percentage of folks who hate them and haven't voiced their opinions....


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## cold77 (Nov 16, 2008)

yetigonecrazy said:


> the fact that this thread is 7 pages long and has over 50 replies astounds me. there is also a lot more support, or at least acceptance, of them than i thought as well. i figured most people hated them, but i imagine there is a larger percentage of folks who hate them and haven't voiced their opinions....


In australia they call packrafts "micro-ducks" -- and they actually saved a the Franklin River (a super fun wilderness run of 60 miles w/Class IV-V) in the 1980s during Australia's first enviro-crisis. Check out this video at about 3.5 mins or so YouTube - The Franklin River Blockade 1983, Tasmania (Part 2 of 2) and you can see the two-person packrafts makin a blockade.

Back in 2002 I was in Oz packrafting the Franklin and ran into a guided group. The Canadian guide turned his nose up at my little Alpacka but the Aussie jumped in and gave it a go. That's the effect of history, there, on people's perceptions, and many Norte Americanos can be pretty snobby, craft-wise.

So I guess I'm a ducky-boater (really think of myself as a "packrafter", as I often walk the boat as far as I paddle it, and that's not portaging around rapids but walking between watersheds -- and when I have packrafted w/folks in IK they sneer a bit at my puff-boat) I think that duckies keep the joy in boating that hard-shells have a tendency to push out to the margins.

Hard-shells, like ice climbing in the days before dry-tooling, seem to just lead to more difficult/more/dangerous runs, leaving fun behind for the good-feeling of conquering bile-deep dread.

It sorta seems like hard shells just encourage folks to feed their f-ing rat


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## Mike Hartley (May 1, 2006)

*IK's for sale*

IK's are so cool you need to run out and buy one or two! FYI - I just posted a Hyside Padillac and an Aire Force Expedition for sale under "All Around Boats" if interested.


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## WhiteLightning (Apr 21, 2004)

Duckies are usually not as graceful as hardshell kayaks and are more forgiving in some aspects, so people think dorks drive them. Kayaks don't make you dorky, acting like a dork does. (It is the tuber, not the innertube that tends to be retarded, for example). 

I have to go with the people who say who gives a shit, do what you want.


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## elcaminoqueen (May 6, 2008)

scooters are bad ass! you just can't run a good shuttle with them.


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## b_liner1 (Apr 8, 2007)

*what about this incept duckie!*

Whitewater Inflatable Kayak K30X Incept Marine Boise Idaho

this thing is pretty cool, looks like you could pack it anywhere


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## mania (Oct 21, 2003)

b_liner1 said:


> Whitewater Inflatable Kayak K30X Incept Marine Boise Idaho
> 
> this thing is pretty cool, looks like you could pack it anywhere


wow. never seen that before. could be worth a try.


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## tboe101 (May 10, 2005)

I've seen West Virginia guides in their own class V version of duckies paddle some bad-ass water. You can load a duckie with a ton of gear and whiskey and paddle some remote rivers like the Escalante and live large. It is indeed the paddler who may be dorky, not the boat. If you add drugs and alcoho to the messl you have dorky times ten.


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## Mike Hartley (May 1, 2006)

mania said:


> wow. never seen that before. could be worth a try.


Incept was kind enough to send me one of these last spring to demo. I have a review that I did on it that is too long to post here but if you want a copy PM me and I'll send it to you.

Basically it's a very specialized boat for those wanting light-weight pack-ability with kayak like performance. It delivers all of those qualities well. You could even do an over-night in it if you packed very lightly. It rolls easily and the sprayskirt seals well and I stayed dry. 

The Sally requires a lot of balance and some practice to get used to it as it is very narrow. I spent MUCH more time bracing than usual. Also I'm old with a bad lower back and found the Sally to be uncomfortable to stay in for long since you are "locked" in with the thigh straps (which need to be very tight) and the sprayskirt prevents you from popping your legs out to change position or even wiggle much. I've heard younger, lighter weight paddlers find it to be comfortable. And while it is great for old-school enders I found getting it out of a hole once I was settled in sideways to require a lot of effort - like I swam out a couple of times.

If you watch the video you can see that the boat has a lot of play potential. After actually paddling the thing it also became even clearer to me that Richard Sage (video paddler) is a very, very good boater. I can't imagine taking this boat (or any boat for that matter) through some of the stuff he does.


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## Chip (Apr 7, 2007)

*Mallards vs. Coots*

Lots of different ducks about. Hence, a few thoughts—

Alpacka sent me an early raft to demo. Amazingly light by virtue of very thin fabric— I'd expect to have to patch it rather often on streams with sharp rock, willow stubs, etc. Rather than let the test boat scrape on shore, I disembarked in the water and waded it in. One weird hazard of such extreme light weight— when you get out, the wind blows it away. 

Performance wasn't thrilling— my legs barely fit so most of my weight was at the stern. Given the poor trim, it was hard to paddle a straight line and the boat weathervaned like mad. Hard to keep it pointed downstream through a wave train (and I don't fancy backwards rapid-running). Paddling across a lake with a wind was bloody awful. When I jammed a loaded pack in the bow, the trim improved and it tracked better, but it was uncomfortable, with my feet wedged. 

What I'd use it for: backcountry trips across watery country, e.g. muskeg or tropical forest with shallow lakes, ponds, swamps, etc. that can't be crossed on foot and are tortuous to detour around. Running multi-day whitewater would be chancy, I'd think. 

The Incept Sally looks great for backpacking in and a 1-2 day dash out— first descents and flash stunts. But the inflatable tubes eat up what little cargo capacity a hardshell would have. 

For self-support trips with a backpack approach, there are quite a few open ducks that weigh less (25 lbs or so) and would hold a fat drybag so you could at least eat and sleep with reasonable comfort. I've done trips with solo paddlers in 2-seater ducks: reasonable handling and good load capacity. 

My favorite is the Jack's Pack Cat, that's stable, tracks well, weighs about 25 lbs. and can carry more gear with a lower center of gravity than a duckie. I've got one of those old Coleman plastic packframes that can carry a big load in and then shed the straps and rig as a gear frame. 









For eight days on the Escalante (UT) we took a single Pack Cat and a 2-seater as a gear-hauler. Here they are pulled up in a tributary. Notice how low the loads are rigged. The seating is very comfortable and adjustable. For backpacking or fly-in trips, having two tubes that roll small really helps to make a compact load. (Some people use the seat and foot frames to make up a backpack.)

I talked with Jack about building lightweight tubes (somewhat tougher than the Alpackaraft fabric) and aluminum frames— it could be done, given the do-re-mi. But it'd cost a minimum $2500. So I'm still thinking about it. . .

Some people are duck-hunting fanatics. I'm a duck-paddling fanatic.


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## elcabojota (Nov 21, 2008)

Ducks are fun, as a paddler you should just have the confidence to go out and paddle whatever you want to try out. About every new boat design out there is termed dorky at one point, then people get in and say, "sheeeeeit, this is pretty fun!"

I just ducked the whole GC from Lee's to Diamond Creek. I loved it, being on the water and the moment of terror when you realize how big that wave actually is!!! I rode through the Gems on a 18footer and thought that it was big, but I appreciated the water-level feel of ducks and kayaks...

Just bought a shredder so there is my love affair


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## Chip (Apr 7, 2007)

The GC is a rip in a duck. I'd paddle like a madman into the big waves and ramp off the crests: airtime. Sky between the tubes. 

Took a few swims— definitely worth it.


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## hotchkiss (Jun 17, 2006)

Duckies rule! I don't care how long you've been a kayaker, learning to ducky big or steep water in a ducky is terrifying. West Water is far and away more fun in a ducky than a kayak. 

That said, I've only been in one twice. Still, what a great time. Dorky or not, a ducky narrows the gap between the class 2 kayaker and the class 4 boater. You don't have to spend hours in a pool learning to ducky roll, just get your ass in the boat. Ducky's are great watercraft, dorky or not.


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