# Sotar is so backlogged...



## jonas_f (May 31, 2007)

Whaddya expect, it’s “Slow-tar”…


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## hysideguy67 (Jul 15, 2021)

Maybe check out the 16' Wing. A buddy was going to order a 16' Sotar a few months ago but delivery date was basically post season. He talked to Wing and should get by end of April. Not sure about custom tweaks but stock spec is pretty cool


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## Pinchecharlie (Jul 27, 2017)

Ohhhh wing that would be really nice and no doubt pro!


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## Pine (Aug 15, 2017)

hysideguy67 said:


> Maybe check out the 16' Wing. A buddy was going to order a 16' Sotar a few months ago but delivery date was basically post season. He talked to Wing and should get by end of April. Not sure about custom tweaks but stock spec is pretty cool


I didn't expect to get it by this season, but I did expect to get a call back at least, but nada, zip, zero, no response.


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## hysideguy67 (Jul 15, 2021)

Ahhhhh, gotcha. This demand insanity can't sustain itself forever imo. The demand is certainly a good problem to have but poor customer service because of the demand may come back to bite


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## westwatercuban (May 19, 2021)

Idk about a good problem to have..sure they are good for their business but for permits It’s a nightmare..


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## Big_B (Feb 17, 2019)

Think i heard that Dusty at drlrivergypsies.com might have a build spot for this summer. Worth a shot if you want a SOTAR this year.


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## Nanko (Oct 20, 2020)

Big_B said:


> Think i heard that Dusty at drlrivergypsies.com might have a build spot for this summer. Worth a shot if you want a SOTAR this year.


yep - try this.


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## BGillespie (Jul 15, 2018)

For a true custom, DIB all the way. Dave’s turnaround is _quick_ and you can’t get a tougher boat.


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## azpowell (Aug 14, 2014)

BGillespie said:


> For a true custom, DIB all the way. Dave’s turnaround is _quick_ and you can’t get a tougher boat.


dib for the win!!! no better boats in the world


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## Rightoarleft (Feb 5, 2021)

My friend who currently has an order with Sotar says the customer service drops off even more once they have your money. Repeated push back of delivery date, poor communication and bad information. He asked for dimensions to build a frame, which he did hoping to get on river by the agreed delivery date. That date has long been pushed back and they gave him the wrong specs... meaning the frame he built doesn't fit. He called me today thinking about canceling his order. I told him to buy a Hyside and be done with it.


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## tbduwyo (Apr 3, 2015)

I called SOTAR two weeks ago and spoke to someone on the phone. They told me December for a 16'. I called WING on the same day and they said end of April to early May for a 16'. Hyside told me October. I'm shopping for the 2023 summer anyway as I'm hoping my old boat hangs on for one more season.


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

Give em a break, it's a family business that basically builds the boats in their backyard garage for all intents and purposes. They got overwhelmed. So did half of the world. 

IMHO what they sell isn't what it used to be, and in the case of the brown boats made out of pond liner material, that's a really good thing, although many still like their offerings, they don't have the longevity of a Hypalon boat, they have built in market demand as the current boats age. Smart from a business standpoint, and as someone mentioned above, this lunacy can't last forever. 

Everybody is out on everything to some degree. bet in 4 or 5 years you'll be able to pick up a very lightly used boat for pennies on the dollar, so perhaps the smart money is in waiting a while.


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## spencerhenry (Jun 21, 2004)

I called Maravia about a new set of cat tubes back in December, I didn't get someone on the phone after a few tries, left a message, got no reply. So, I just ordered a boat online, got a call the next day. 10 to 12 months out they told me. But, they had a set of 17' tubes available. I bought them. I will probably sell them after the Grand trip, I don't like the color.


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## Rightoarleft (Feb 5, 2021)

MNichols said:


> Give em a break, it's a family business that basically builds the boats in their backyard garage for all intents and purposes.


Sotar? That doesn't fit a company with 96 employees and $18m in revenue, more than double Aire and Maravia combined, and $6m more than NRS. Judging by the disclaimer on their website, I'm thinking the legal team alone outnumbers original family members.

Sotar's reach goes far beyond rafting as we know it. I forget details so I should probably shut up but it seems they have international contracts and build all sorts of stuff unrelated to whitewater like pneumatic lifts for first responders, dip buckets for wildland firefighting, dock pontoons.


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## gringoanthony (Jul 4, 2009)

MNichols said:


> Give em a break, it's a family business that basically builds the boats in their backyard garage for all intents and purposes. They got overwhelmed. So did half of the world.
> 
> IMHO what they sell isn't what it used to be, and in the case of the brown boats made out of pond liner material, that's a really good thing, although many still like their offerings, they don't have the longevity of a Hypalon boat, they have built in market demand as the current boats age. Smart from a business standpoint, and as someone mentioned above, this lunacy can't last forever.
> 
> Everybody is out on everything to some degree. bet in 4 or 5 years you'll be able to pick up a very lightly used boat for pennies on the dollar, so perhaps the smart money is in waiting a while.


If that's the case, they've been overwhelmed for over a decade.

The owner could easily afford to take care of his employees and hire someone to answer the phone. If he cared to...


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## zbaird (Oct 11, 2003)

The old acronym rings true in this case.


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## Pine (Aug 15, 2017)

BGillespie said:


> For a true custom, DIB all the way. Dave’s turnaround is _quick_ and you can’t get a tougher boat.


DIB construction is definitely bomber, but they are way too heavy. I've found their fabric to be really sticky on the Idaho granite too.


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## Pine (Aug 15, 2017)

MNichols said:


> Give em a break, it's a family business that basically builds the boats in their backyard garage for all intents and purposes. They got overwhelmed. So did half of the world.
> 
> IMHO what they sell isn't what it used to be, and in the case of the brown boats made out of pond liner material, that's a really good thing, although many still like their offerings, they don't have the longevity of a Hypalon boat, they have built in market demand as the current boats age. Smart from a business standpoint, and as someone mentioned above, this lunacy can't last forever.
> 
> Everybody is out on everything to some degree. bet in 4 or 5 years you'll be able to pick up a very lightly used boat for pennies on the dollar, so perhaps the smart money is in waiting a while.


What was the problem with the brown Sotar boats? 

I would actually prefer a Hypalon boat, but in reality, trye Hypalon material is no longer available. The fabric NRS uses is super heavy compared to the original Avon fabric, and they also have a super long backlog, especially for custom boats. I'm pretty sure Hyside doesn't do custom builds.


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## yesimapirate (Oct 18, 2010)

Consider other American made high volume manufacturers. First that come to mind - JPW and Maravia. What's the current time for these guys to pump out a new inflatable with coviid's impacts? Four years ago my design/buy/build time for JPW tubes was around 5 months. I have to imagine their queues are longer now with demand to get out and play at all time high. And what about supply chain crap? Are they twiddling thumbs waiting on materials sitting on a boat? And what about staffing? How many smaller companies had to let go of a chunk of their workforce to stay alive? Ok great demand is back, but then you have find anyone who wants to work. And then you have to train them. You gonna put a 5-10 yr warranty behind Joe Suzy Bob who has 1 week of experience welding seems??? This isn't the only industry impacted by coviid's jacked-up-ness. Look at the car and camper van and RV industries. High demand, and long waits. If you haven't noticed any of that, then you really have been living under a rock. This is all a long winded way of saying similar to MNichols - give em a break. 

As far as them not answering the phone or returning vmails.... I would suspect that's staffing related, but I do agree it's not a great look.

This is absolutely a rumor mill comment, but while out at dinner in Co Springs last Aug I heard from a guy wearing a Lochsa Falls Festival shirt (who I ended up talking to for a while and is a Sotar customer from PNW) that the main welder/fabricator guy had a heart attack a few months before and they were uncertain of his return. If this rumor has any validity, I would suspect that has impacts on their throughput as well.

**Note - I typed this up 3-4 hrs ago and never hit "post reply". After hitting the button I see someone mentioned Maravia's timeline. Kinda what I suspected.


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## BenSlaughter (Jun 16, 2017)

I've always gotten top notch service from SOTAR. 
Like everyone, I'm sure they're overwhelmed right now. I know they've had struggles getting material, and like everyone, they're dealing with worker shortages.

As to quality, I can only attest to my old boat, which has been bomber.


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

Pine said:


> What was the problem with the brown Sotar boats?
> 
> I would actually prefer a Hypalon boat, but in reality, trye Hypalon material is no longer available. The fabric NRS uses is super heavy compared to the original Avon fabric, and they also have a super long backlog, especially for custom boats. I'm pretty sure Hyside doesn't do custom builds.


What's wrong with Hyside's off the shelf models?


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## Awbcolorado (Feb 18, 2018)

I was ordering a SOTAR last summer and they offered my an in stock model with a small blemish. Glad I bought that one and didn't stay with the order. Used it last summer and my frame is currently in production so it will be 100% for this summer.


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## Pine (Aug 15, 2017)

MNichols said:


> What's wrong with Hyside's off the shelf models?


I was really hoping to do a custom design 16' with 23" tubes and the same geometry as an Avon Pro. I also think the Hyside farbic is very heavy. 

I do really like the looks of the Hyside 16' XT, but I would want to demo one before I bought it, which seems nearly impossible.


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## hysideguy67 (Jul 15, 2021)

Again, I'd check out the Wing "Serg" (zero affiliation but boat with several and can attest to quality). 16' w 23" tubes I believe. Might be a viable alternative to Sotar. They're bomber for close to same $s


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## BGillespie (Jul 15, 2018)

Pine said:


> I was really hoping to do a custom design 16' with 23" tubes and the same geometry as an Avon Pro. I also think the Hyside farbic is very heavy.
> I do really like the looks of the Hyside 16' XT, but I would want to demo one before I bought it, which seems nearly impossible.


Overall Hyside weight is definitely on the lighter end of the wide 16' boat offerings. I can lift and move a 16 XT by myself, definitely can't lift the NRS Star Outlaw 160 in my shop by myself.

Looks like the 16 XT at my shop is sold. If you want to stop by and check it out, we could inflate it. My other 16 XT is arriving in October as well.


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## westwatercuban (May 19, 2021)

Isn't the Outlaw PVC?..


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

Pine said:


> I was really hoping to do a custom design 16' with 23" tubes and the same geometry as an Avon Pro. I also think the Hyside farbic is very heavy.
> 
> I do really like the looks of the Hyside 16' XT, but I would want to demo one before I bought it, which seems nearly impossible.


Interesting. A plastic copy of a PRO.. neat idea, but it won't handle like a pro, plastic doesn't flex like Hypalon. I've got Hyside 22 foot snout tubes that I think are downright light, for as much fabric and urethane as they have / use.

Good luck, hope you get what you're looking for.


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## Pinchecharlie (Jul 27, 2017)

Oh man you have a snout!?? I gotta start being nicer to you lol!


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

Pinchecharlie said:


> Oh man you have a snout!?? I gotta start being nicer to you lol!


Indeed Charlie indeed!


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## BGillespie (Jul 15, 2018)

westwatercuban said:


> Isn't the Outlaw PVC?..


Yes it is.

In the next three weeks, I'll have a 1980 smaller tube Pro with a new NRS floor, a 16' NRS diminished hypalon boat (narrow for a 16--the Riken design), Hyside 16 XT, and the Outlaw 160. Happy to weigh them and pull any other dimensions someone would like.


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## rainbows&unicornsohmy (Feb 21, 2020)

Rightoarleft said:


> Sotar? That doesn't fit a company with 96 employees and $18m in revenue, more than double Aire and Maravia combined, and $6m more than NRS. Judging by the disclaimer on their website, I'm thinking the legal team alone outnumbers original family members.
> 
> Sotar's reach goes far beyond rafting as we know it. I forget details so I should probably shut up but it seems they have international contracts and build all sorts of stuff unrelated to whitewater like pneumatic lifts for first responders, dip buckets for wildland firefighting, dock pontoons.


Sotar currently has less than 50 full time employees, and that has been the case for well over a decade. They build somewhere in the ballpark of 300 boats a year on average. Obviously they do hope to increase that in the future, and have dramaticaly upped their production department to meet current market demand, but they are facing the same staffing and skillset shortages everyone else is dealing with, on top a crazy and unreliable supply chain. They do occasionally take on non boating projects, generally only for repairs these days, however that has never been their focus at any point. I know this because I worked there for a time, and I am still on good terms and regularly boat with the Lewman family and some of their staff.

I can't blame Wing for selling out at all in that regard: government firefighting equipment contracts pay far more and complain far less when they aren't treated like royalty. The whitewater community is fun, but that company has taken a big hit over the years by making it their primary focus. It'd be great if more people realized this instead of attacking them for not returning a phone call fast enough....


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## pyranha_rev (Aug 15, 2011)

Soatars are my second favorite boat behind Hysides. Sotars are the best at grabbing the water out in front of the boat. They’re an aggressive guides dream boat. Sad to hear their customer service sucks! Glad I got my mini me max before the prices shot up!


Rightoarleft said:


> My friend who currently has an order with Sotar says the customer service drops off even more once they have your money. Repeated push back of delivery date, poor communication and bad information. He asked for dimensions to build a frame, which he did hoping to get on river by the agreed delivery date. That date has long been pushed back and they gave him the wrong specs... meaning the frame he built doesn't fit. He called me today thinking about canceling his order. I told him to buy a Hyside and be done with it.


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## rainbows&unicornsohmy (Feb 21, 2020)

Pine said:


> What was the problem with the brown Sotar boats?


There were material defects in some of those rolls (a problem that was also present in many purple boats built around the same time in the mid to late 00s) that weren't showing up until many many boats were made out of them years down the road. Not all tan boats are duds, and most are probably still good and hold air just fine, but there are some out there that are really bad, and it's definitely something to be aware of if you're buying a used boat The best way to tell is to do a high pressure soapy water test: clusters of pinholes all around the boat in randomized patterns means the material is delaminating, and will continue to do so no matter how many times it gets patched. If it's just a few pins, and if its still holding air just fine the next morning it's good to go. Again, this is an issue specific to some mid to late 00s tan and purple sotars.


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## GNWRR (Mar 16, 2017)

BenSlaughter said:


> I've always gotten top notch service from SOTAR.
> Like everyone, I'm sure they're overwhelmed right now. I know they've had struggles getting material, and like everyone, they're dealing with worker shortages.
> 
> As to quality, I can only attest to my old boat, which has been bomber.


I'm going to second this that Sotar has answered everything and been responsive for me. I've received 2 emails from Kelly today about information I was looking for. Jeremiah has been super responsive as well. They may be back logged but I'm guessing all the manufactures are. I have another 143R on order with Aire and delivery is still TBD.


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## AK Andy (Jun 6, 2017)

Pine said:


> What was the problem with the brown Sotar boats?
> 
> I would actually prefer a Hypalon boat, but in reality, trye Hypalon material is no longer available. The fabric NRS uses is super heavy compared to the original Avon fabric, and they also have a super long backlog, especially for custom boats. I'm pretty sure Hyside doesn't do custom builds.


Hypalon all the way.... I love the durability of the NRS E boats but AVON nailed the sweet spot between performance, weight (rolled girth), and durability (build quality). If you have to put your kit in an airplane the NRS E series is heavy and big, the Otter boats are better and might be the closest thing to an AVON pound for pound but they don't offer a stock 16" and the lines just don't appeal to my old school bias.


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## OooAgates (11 mo ago)

rainbows&unicornsohmy said:


> Sotar currently has less than 50 full time employees, and that has been the case for well over a decade. They build somewhere in the ballpark of 300 boats a year on average. Obviously they do hope to increase that in the future, and have dramaticaly upped their production department to meet current market demand, but they are facing the same staffing and skillset shortages everyone else is dealing with, on top a crazy and unreliable supply chain. They do occasionally take on non boating projects, generally only for repairs these days, however that has never been their focus at any point. I know this because I worked there for a time, and I am still on good terms and regularly boat with the Lewman family and some of their staff.
> 
> I can't blame Wing for selling out at all in that regard: government firefighting equipment contracts pay far more and complain far less when they aren't treated like royalty. The whitewater community is fun, but that company has taken a big hit over the years by making it their primary focus. It'd be great if more people realized this instead of attacking them for not returning a phone call fast enough....


I've been to SOTAR a few times, and I would say that they wouldn't be able to even fit 96 employees (stated so surely by someone in past posts) in that building let alone space for 50. The maximum that I have ever seen in there were 1-4 in the office and maybe 10-12 in the shop on a good day. I can imagine that Merlin, Oregon, and the surrounding area, is a difficult place to hire from.


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## Willie 1.5 (Jul 9, 2013)

rainbows&unicornsohmy said:


> Again, this is an issue specific to some mid to late 00s tan and purple sotars.


Is it though?








Opinion Needed-Sotar Warranty


I’ve been a big fan of Sotar boats for 30 years now. My first boat, 14’, lasted 25 years with rough treatment. Sotar told me that I could spend more money on my old boat regluing it or just get a new one made of better materials. Got a new one, duh. I boasted about these rafts just like the...




www.mountainbuzz.com


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

Rightoarleft said:


> Sotar? That doesn't fit a company with 96 employees and $18m in revenue, more than double Aire and Maravia combined, and $6m more than NRS. Judging by the disclaimer on their website, I'm thinking the legal team alone outnumbers original family members.
> 
> Sotar's reach goes far beyond rafting as we know it. I forget details so I should probably shut up but it seems they have international contracts and build all sorts of stuff unrelated to whitewater like pneumatic lifts for first responders, dip buckets for wildland firefighting, dock pontoons.


Apparently not... You obviously must be thinking of another manufacturer. Inflatable Technologies used to do the ancillary sort of things you describe, stuff for the military, custom one off boats, but as I understand it, they simply got too diverse, and decided to focus on what they did best. I bet they didn't have 18 million of revenue either. The markup on whitewater rafts isn't nearly what you'd think, especially made in the USA boats due to material and labor costs. Why most rafts are made outside the US..

Would be hard pressed to believe they have a large on staff legal team either LOL.. Or that they would need one. 

18 million in revenue? Larger than NRS and Maravia together???? Highly unlikely. Hyside, NRS and AIRE respectively are, and have been the highest volume manufacturers of boats for as long as I can remember, that is unlikely to change any time in the near future, according to me.



rainbows&unicornsohmy said:


> Sotar currently has less than 50 full time employees, and that has been the case for well over a decade. They build somewhere in the ballpark of 300 boats a year on average.


300 boats a year sounds more along the line of possibility. A screen name of "Rainbowsandunicornsohmy", really ? 
Not judging, but...Wow.



OooAgates said:


> I've been to SOTAR a few times, and I would say that they wouldn't be able to even fit 96 employees (stated so surely by someone in past posts) in that building let alone space for 50. The maximum that I have ever seen in there were 1-4 in the office and maybe 10-12 in the shop on a good day


That sounds closer to reality, and as a first person account, very high on the believability scale. 

As for all the boats with the de lamination issues, this was a problem from the late 90's thru the mid to late 2000's. The majority of them were brown, as in babyshit brown, not even close to "tan", which might be a nice way of saying brown.. Don't know about purple,, Most of the boats they made out of this material had these issues, not most of them are OK. I've only seen one in the last 20 years out of this fabric that was totally OK, and the color, well. 

The story I heard at America Outdoors, the largest outdoor retailer show in the US was, they bought an overrun of pond liner material (hence the attractive brown color), at a really good price, and a lot of it, started making boats out of it. The material failed, spectacularly in some cases. Damn near put them out of business as the story went. It's totally unsubstantiated gossip, but given the width and breadth of the problem, sounded believable at the time, still does today for that matter. Everyone makes mistakes, SOTAR was most certainly entitled to theirs.

Supposedly they developed something called "Liquid Lex" (They called the material "Lexatron") that one could paint on top of the fabric that would slow this down some, but never heard of anyone using it, or having success or failure using it. It could be some fanboy trying to downplay the situation. As I recall, it came across the idahowhitewater yahoo group back in the early 2000's, so it's certainly of dubious origin. These issues seem to be long resolved though, haven't heard of anything other than the run of the mill manufacturing defects that plague every manufacturer in the last 10 years or so.

At the end of the day, my estimation that they are a small family business, and likely doing the best they can with what they have probably has more truth to it than 50, or 96, or whatever amount of employees that was posted. 

I'd imagine that they aren't answering the phones like one would expect, as it'd likely be some long winded private boater wanting to spend a couple hours deciding what they want, and what they don't want, taking up time they COULD be using to build boats.. Been there, done that when I was in the WW business. 

My 2 cents, YMMV


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## Patch1010 (Mar 5, 2021)

Pine said:


> ...they don't even answer the phone or return calls anymore. Must be a nice problem for a business to have.
> 
> Just when I was getting ready to start building out a new 16' boat, it looks like the chance of getting anyone to do a custom design is essentially zero.


I have spoken with Randi on the phone, and received responses to my emails. Yes it has taken longer than normal, but with all the political science and COVID garbage going on most places are hurting for workers. I have a boat being built, and although it is taking longer than expected I realize the world situation and still choose to support an awesome manufacture. I too have a choice to go somewhere else, but am trusting Sotar will come through. We as an American populace are spoiled. We are used to getting our wants and desires immediately. This is our new normal for now. Most people and businesses are doing as much as they can as fast as they can. I choose to support them not bad mouth them!


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## azpowell (Aug 14, 2014)

AK Andy said:


> Hypalon all the way.... I love the durability of the NRS E boats but AVON nailed the sweet spot between performance, weight (rolled girth), and durability (build quality). If you have to put your kit in an airplane the NRS E series is heavy and big, the Otter boats are better and might be the closest thing to an AVON pound for pound but they don't offer a stock 16" and the lines just don't appeal to my old school bias.


Neoprene all the way. get your custom rubber boat vulcanized and never worry about glue failures or crappy plastic pinholes... nothing like rowing a dib


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

azpowell said:


> Neoprene all the way. get your custom rubber boat vulcanized and never worry about glue failures or crappy plastic pinholes... nothing like rowing a dib


That would be true, and Dave Demaree is a hell of a nice guy, but I'd have to mortgage my house to pay for one, and then take out a second to buy a forklift to haul it on and off the truck. 

Hell for stout they are though, and would likely outlast many humans if properly cared for.. Only rowed one in my life, was a boat Canyonlands NPS loaned the BLM for us to use in tamarisk eradication efforts, was a bucket boat, loaded with death kill herbicide and chainsaws and water cubies. It handled well thru Westwater, but I was damn glad we had a crew from Moab Helitak to load the damn thing on the trailer, and even they were straining...


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## azpowell (Aug 14, 2014)

MNichols said:


> That would be true, and Dave Demaree is a hell of a nice guy, but I'd have to mortgage my house to pay for one, and then take out a second to buy a forklift to haul it on and off the truck.
> 
> Hell for stout they are though, and would likely outlast many humans if properly cared for.. Only rowed one in my life, was a boat Canyonlands NPS loaned the BLM for us to use in tamarisk eradication efforts, was a bucket boat, loaded with death kill herbicide and chainsaws and water cubies. It handled well thru Westwater, but I was damn glad we had a crew from Moab Helitak to load the damn thing on the trailer, and even they were straining...


my 18' isn't that much heavier than an NRS, I managed to get one of his boats that he built for Steve Hatch back in 2011 (i think that's who he built them for). drop stitch floor, more 3 inch D rings than you can shake a stick at, bomber chafe strips, urethan on the bottom and in the rowing compartment. it is by far the best boat i've ever seen.
"buy once, cry once" pvc boats have like a 10-15 year lifespan? the set of snout tubes i had were well over 30+ years old and had been in use most of that time....

really contemplated keeping my dib snout tubes but decided to run my 25' maravias instead (a decision ill likely regret in 15 years)


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## Rightoarleft (Feb 5, 2021)

MNichols said:


> Apparently not... You obviously must be thinking of another manufacturer. Inflatable Technologies used to do the ancillary sort of things you describe, stuff for the military, custom one off boats, but as I understand it, they simply got too diverse, and decided to focus on what they did best.


Fom Sotar's website: "Now designing and manufacturing for large industrial applications including: helicopter water buckets and fire hoses; floating dry docks for boats and ships; building tubes and pontoons for specialty crafts; manufacturing tubes for motorized ocean-going vessels; and manufacturing military fuel tanks."








SOTAR CUSTOM PATTERNS & INDUSTRIAL DESIGN


Now designing and manufacturing for large industrial applications including: helicopter water buckets and fire hoses; floating dry docks for boats and ships; building tubes and pontoons for specialty crafts; manufacturing tubes for motorized ocean-going vessels; and manufacturing military fuel...




sotar.com







MNichols said:


> 18 million in revenue? Larger than NRS and Maravia together???? Highly unlikely.


From Datanyze: 
Sotar revenue $18.2m, 96 employees.
Maravia revenue $3.9m, 20 employees.
Aire revenue $4.3m, 22 employees.
NRS revenue $12.4m, 120 employees.








SOTAR Company Profile | Management and Employees List


Find contact information for SOTAR. Learn about their Automobile Dealers, Retail market share, competitors, and SOTAR's email format.




www.datanyze.com







MNichols said:


> Would be hard pressed to believe they have a large on staff legal team either LOL.. Or that they would need one.


Compare Sotar's warranty page to Aire or Maravia. In a nutshell it says "You agree no problem is our problem because Sotar doesn't make mistakes". Sotar is most certainly lawyered up.


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

Well, that totally explains it. Datanyze: Find Business Contact Info for B2B Sales Prospects is a cold calling sales tool, hardly what I'd consider a reliable and or verifiable source of information, and what one puts on a website may well be their aspirations, but I'm not seeing it. I do wonder what their automobile dealers market share is though.. 

Stuff like their warranty is available in cut and paste from all over the web. Disclaimer Examples
I agree that theirs is a little over the top, but you don't need lawyers to make legalese with the interwebs. I still highly doubt they have an attorney on staff. Too many things in reality are disagreeing with what you found on the interwebs..


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

azpowell said:


> my 18' isn't that much heavier than an NRS, I managed to get one of his boats that he built for Steve Hatch back in 2011 (i think that's who he built them for). drop stitch floor, more 3 inch D rings than you can shake a stick at, bomber chafe strips, urethan on the bottom and in the rowing compartment. it is by far the best boat i've ever seen.
> "buy once, cry once" pvc boats have like a 10-15 year lifespan? the set of snout tubes i had were well over 30+ years old and had been in use most of that time....
> 
> really contemplated keeping my dib snout tubes but decided to run my 25' maravias instead (a decision ill likely regret in 15 years)


Lotta cryin going on with PVC boats, but then some like them. i'm a rubber guy myself, if I were to buy a PVC boat, it'd be a Maravia.. 

My snout tubes are Hyside, no complaints from me, so far.. i wish I had Dib's, but Hyside will have to do LOL.


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## Conundrum (Aug 23, 2004)

I just looked up those four manufacturers on the different business analytics tools my company has access to and none of the tools agreed on sales or employee counts. Those tools are all algorithm modeled and I’ve never found them to be that accurate. If I we’re guessing, Sotar wouldn’t be doing the most in sales volume but just a guess.

But what do I know, my boats are made of plastic.


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## Pine (Aug 15, 2017)

MNichols said:


> Interesting. A plastic copy of a PRO.. neat idea, but it won't handle like a pro, plastic doesn't flex like Hypalon. I've got Hyside 22 foot snout tubes that I think are downright light, for as much fabric and urethane as they have / use.
> 
> Good luck, hope you get what you're looking for.


It won't be quite the big water wave puncher that the Pro was, but it should handle OK. There are outfitters running Sotars are the Futalafu, which is about the biggest water out there. It's definitely going to be a prototype.


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## kanuman (May 13, 2013)

Pine said:


> It won't be quite the big water wave puncher that the Pro was, but it should handle OK. There are outfitters running Sotars are the Futalafu, which is about the biggest water out there. It's definitely going to be a prototype.


I 've got a SOTAR that is 16'6" with 23" tubes that I had them build in 2017 and I really like it. It's a sturdy big water platform that I can load to the max. Sorry to hear they are having customer service issues...they've always been great for me. This is my second SOTAR, the first was 20 years old when I sold it and it still had no patches.


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## Pine (Aug 15, 2017)

That is a sweet looking boat. How have you liked the extra tube diameter?



kanuman said:


> I 've got a SOTAR that is 16'6" with 23" tubes that I had them build in 2017 and I really like it. It's a sturdy big water platform that I can load to the max. Sorry to hear they are having customer service issues...they've always been great for me. This is my second SOTAR, the first was 20 years old when I sold it and it still had no patches.
> View attachment 73750


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## kanuman (May 13, 2013)

Pine said:


> That is a sweet looking boat. How have you liked the extra tube diameter?


When I added an inch to the tube diameter and 6" to the length the boat ended up bigger than I expected. It's a beast compared to my old 16' boat. It feels very stout on the water and makes me a bit more relaxed about taking big hits in waves and holes. I'm sure with added air in the tubes it draws a bit less in the shallows as well. I hope you get what you want...things are a bit off on the supply side right now. I wanted a new outboard for my fishing boat and the best I can do is about 30 weeks out !


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## TheAlaskan (Aug 9, 2015)

Slow and steady wins the race right now with sotar. I ordered mine in May 2020, didn't get it until Sept or Oct.

They did sort of go quiet at times but it's worth the wait.


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## SixPek (Jul 19, 2016)

14' Mint Condition SOTAR Whitewater Raft - sporting goods - by owner... (craigslist.org) 
Mark Taylor at Reliable Raft Repair in Coloma CA selling this ... (for the SOTAR fanboys!)


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