# Guiding in the Arkansas Valley



## David Spiegel (Sep 26, 2007)

Work for Buffalo Joe's Rafting up in BV, those guys rock.

I love BJs


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## raftus (Jul 20, 2005)

First, apply to a lot of companies. Applying this time of year through January is ideal. Some Companies have cut off dates for application in Jan and Feb so you want to get in early.

Next, ask lots of questions:
• How many trips per day/week/month can I expect from you? No one will make promises, but there is a huge variation in the number and type of trips you will get. This will have a huge impact on how much cash you make for the season. Pin them down on this even if it takes some real effort and get actual numbers if possible for last years rookies. Remember that generally a company that can put you on three or four trips a day is better than someone that can only get you one trip a day. Get tipped 4 times or once – even if you only get a few trips at least you are working versus not getting any work/cash that day. 
• What’s their tip policy? Do they allow signs, guide speeches, or have other tipping inducements? Tips will make up anywhere from 10-40% of your guiding income, and you want it to be the latter not the former. 
• What work is required outside of guiding, safety talks and dealing with putting away/cleaning rafts, wetsuits, lifejackets, helmets and paddles? The stuff just mentioned is par for the course – vacuuming the shop, folding t-shirts, cleaning bathrooms, dealing with landscaping and numerous other duties are piled on by some companies as part of your PER TRIP pay. Watch out. Make sure you get paid extra for non-guiding duties and understand if this affects how many trips you get per day/week. Picking weeds should never be part of your per trip pay, being forced to “volunteer” for work w/o pay to get trips should never happen.
• What is their per trip pay? Rookies may make as little as $25 per half day, but senior guides can get $70+ for the same trip. More trips (and Tips) are usually better than a bit more per trip, but look for the most you can get. Top guides can make over $200/day plus tips, although that is rare on the Arkansas.
• Ask how many of their senior guides are returning. A high percentage indicates a generally good work environment, low percentage usually means something is wrong – bad management, low pay, lots of extra unpaid work, etc.
• Ask how close they are to the river and put-in/takeouts. Generally you don't get paid for riding in the van/bus, so the less time you are in a vehicle the higher your per hour pay is. 

I know you asked for specific company recommendations – I only worked on the Canon City vicinity of the Ark. That was 7 years ago so I can’t make any real recommendations – but the stuff above should help you get on the right track. (I have guided commercially for 7 seasons in CO, WV and AK). I would also recommend checking out opportunities on other river/places in CO - Durango and the Animas, Canon City - Ark, Clear Creek - Golden, Poudre - Ft. Collins.


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## WhiteLightning (Apr 21, 2004)

Consider working for one of the resort town companies that has an Arkansas outpost. Lakota and Timberline in the Vail area service that area, and both have offices with staff based near the Numbers on the Arkansas. I can't speak for Timberline, but there may be some (loosely speaking) "housing" options available too. You will get (sometimes) big spenders who are shuttled over from Beaver Creek and Vail. Trip pay is maybe a little higher, and tips are way better from those guests than what the usual guests probably give. The Aspen companies might have a similar setup, but I'm not sure. If you want to do Royal Gorge, you might consider someone else, however (once again, don't know about the Aspen companies).


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## Meng (Oct 25, 2003)

Do you want to work 'upstream' in the BV area or down south in the Canon city/8 mile hill area?

That's your first consideration. BV is better for kayaking.

Good companies to work for include:

BV-

River Runners
AVA

Canon-

Raft Masters (if you want to work every single day)
Echo


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## tango (Feb 1, 2006)

yo i hear noah's ark is pretty rad if you hate drinking, getting laid, or making money.


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## farp (Nov 4, 2003)

Raftus said:
• What’s their tip policy? Do they allow signs, guide speeches, or have other tipping inducements? Tips will make up anywhere from 10-40% of your guiding income, and you want it to be the latter not the former. 
• What work is required outside of guiding, safety talks and dealing with putting away/cleaning rafts, wetsuits, lifejackets, helmets and paddles? The stuff just mentioned is par for the course – vacuuming the shop, folding t-shirts, cleaning bathrooms, dealing with landscaping and numerous other duties are piled on by some companies as part of your PER TRIP pay. Watch out. Make sure you get paid extra for non-guiding duties and understand if this affects how many trips you get per day/week. Picking weeds should never be part of your per trip pay, being forced to “volunteer” for work w/o pay to get trips should never happen.
• Ask how many of their senior guides are returning. A high percentage indicates a generally good work environment, low percentage usually means something is wrong – bad management, low pay, lots of extra unpaid work, etc.


Hahahaha...I know where this comes from. Great advice.


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## Matt J (May 27, 2005)

*some advice*

The best advice I can give you is to be prepared and versatile:

I would apply in several watersheds, maybe the Ark, and the Poudre in Colorado, and the American in Cali, and on the Ocoee in Tennessee, that way if there's a drought you have a job somewhere with water.

Beware that a lot of companies run their "guide school" for profit and take way more applicants then they plan on hiring so if possible go somewhere you have an "in."

The more prepared you are going into the season the more likely you are to work. Any offer you have to get on the water, take it, even if it's just floating Loma early season. Save some money over the winter to buy the proper gear i.e. throw rope, rescue vest, helmet, splash pants. Take a CPR / First Aid class as soon as possible, look into early season swiftwater classes, and think about getting a commercial drivers license to drive the bus (drivers are usually in shorter supply than guides).

Keep an open mind and be willing to work hard. Trust your gut when it comes to who you work for, there are a lot of good companies and work environments that work for different personality types.

Good luck.


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## CUkayakGirl (Mar 31, 2005)

Good advice so far...

I worked for River Runners last summer as a rookie. There was a smaller number of returning senior guides...this was good for the rookies, I think we got more work than past rookie classes by far. 

From my other friends in the valley and what i heard around town...
From the rookies I knew (I did not know rookies from every company), they were getting the most work at: Runners, Kodi, PT, Noahs and AVA. 

Some of the companies hired too many rookies and most of them had second jobs somewhere in town. 

It is so hard to have a bad time guiding, you will probably be fine anywere, everyone is pretty neat and every comapny has their good and bad sides.

The ark valley is awesome!!!! I am totally heading down that way again next year.

Good luck!


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## tango (Feb 1, 2006)

american adventure expeditions was just on Trading Spaces, so you can't go wrong there.


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## ecarlson972 (Apr 24, 2007)

Thanks for all the info! I would prefer to guide on the Ark because I love the area. I have always wanted to live there. It has everything I love to do in outdoor recreation. The river, 14ers, climbing etc. As far as planning goes I should be an EMT by then and hope to get an early season SWR class in. I already have most the gear so I am set there!

I do like the idea of applying to all the companys. One question I do have is what companys make you live in employee housing as a rookie? I would prefer to rent a place on my own. One I have done the employee housing before and was not to thrilled by it. And two I would love to bring my lab along for the summer! It just would not be the same without him!

Again thanks for all the info.

Eric


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## ecarlson972 (Apr 24, 2007)

Has anyone ever worked for Wilderness Aware? Are they firm on living in their employee housing as a rookie? Seems like they have the best traing program from the research I have done!

Eric


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## tango (Feb 1, 2006)

i'm pretty sure employee housing is virtually nonexistent at most companies on the ark. unless you consider sleeping in a truck in the parking lot to be housing. there is plenty of free camping in the area though. i had a hard time looking for an apartment to rent in BV back in 2006, but did find one. most locals are not particularly stoked on the river guide lifestyle. 

i think most of the WA kids stay in a trailer park by the little daisy liquor store. maybe that's what you're thinking of.

i've been guiding on the ark for 5 years. the companies i would recommend checking out are Performance Tours, River Runners, AAE, and Buffalo Joe's. 

i work at The Adventure Company, but we're the only outfitter that does not hire inexperienced guides.


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## CUkayakGirl (Mar 31, 2005)

Rent a place? You will be living the high life.

Most of the companies do not have any sort of housing for you... We all camped, you probably won't make enough money to afford to rent a place your rookie year.
You will learn to love Church Dinner (good home cooked food and showers).


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## Meng (Oct 25, 2003)

Dude-

WA is THE ONLY company that makes you live there (I think). They are a great company though.

I wouldn't waste my time applying to all the companies. Just pick 5, max,to apply to. It's not hard to get hired on the Ark. They all need help every year and unless you are a totall slacker who's deathly afraid of the river you'll get hired. Your current river experience (if any) combined with an emt will put you well ahead of the game. It's not like your applying to be a highly professional, top of the field, world class international guide for EX Chile or Mtn. Sobek or something.

Then, call/email the companies you choose with your detailed questions.


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## caspermike (Mar 9, 2007)

check out raft masters in canon. warmer climate fun water and great rafters


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## catfishjon (Jan 27, 2007)

*WA*



ecarlson972 said:


> Has anyone ever worked for Wilderness Aware? Are they firm on living in their employee housing as a rookie? Seems like they have the best traing program from the research I have done!
> 
> Eric


Wilderness Aware sucks. They are super strict. They give drug tests to there guides. They make their rookies live in trailers. They have this bunk ass hiring system where you have to pay to go on an "interview trip" in the spring. Forget those guys. Runners, AVA, AAE, and PT are all great companies.


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## Harry (Apr 16, 2007)

*A.R.T.*

what are your thoughts about Arkansas River Tours?


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## kayakgawd (Apr 24, 2006)

*ark raft company*

I would look into buff joes. Awesome company to work for great owners and lots of work. worked for lots of companies in the valley and they top all of them.


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## buckmanriver (Apr 2, 2008)

Quote:
Originally Posted by *ecarlson972*  
_Has anyone ever worked for Wilderness Aware? Are they firm on living in their employee housing as a rookie? Seems like they have the best traing program from the research I have done!

Eric_

Wilderness Aware sucks. They are super strict. They give drug tests to there guides. They make their rookies live in trailers. They have this bunk ass hiring system where you have to pay to go on an "interview trip" in the spring. Forget those guys. Runners, AVA, AAE, and PT are all great companies.

WA Sucks?

If you are poor and want the best training in the valley look no further.
It is a month long and your on the river every day getting yelled out for fucking up. But you learn more than you would in a water based college rec. program.

The Catch is WA (wilderness aware) owns you for two years. 
You don't haft to pay for training which usually cost $500.
But you haft to live in a trailer park your first year which will cost you $487.17 as of 2007. I lived in my truck my first season a WA because i like solitude after work and wanted to live where i could see the mountains not in a trailer park next to the highway. 

I sat down with Joe Greiner the owner and ask him not to charge me for rent as i was not living the trailer park. I told him that i needed the money for college. 
His response
"you are a first year guide you haft to live in the trailer park your contract says that"

This is way WA has been making money since the 1980s when Joe bought the company. 

Joe is not your friend he is a business man try to run the best raft company in the valley.
He is has a reputation throughout Colorado as a man who expects perfection from his employees and suppliers. 

My advise to all looking to raft guide and considering WA go on the interview trip and if you have any seconded thoughts about working for the company apply somewhere else.

DON'T work at a company just because you read on a internet form "work at ..... they are a great company with awesome guides"


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## Full_Tilt (May 3, 2004)

Personally I would try to guide on Clear Creek closer to Denver, you will learn how to guide better in your first year on the Creek Clear than down on the Ark. Simply because the gradient drops more on clear creak, this makes it so you have to make choices quicker than down on the Ark. People who guide on Clear Creek go to the Ark and think its boring.


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## farp (Nov 4, 2003)

I just got done reading Wilderness Aware's website, and I thought it was very telling. 

Under the section "River guide job description and pay scale" it reads: "Repairs or replaces equipment damaged or lost due to gross negligence that was specific guide's responsibility."

I suppose it depends on who is judging "gross negligence." Oh yeah, the owner does. It's not like there is an impartial jury. 

That opens the door for some pretty ugly disputes. I wouldn't agree with those terms unless I really trusted the person judging "gross negligence."

Reading the long, long list of guide expectations and the overall tone of the employment pages, I would avoid WA. I may be wrong and WA might be a great place to work, but it doesn't come across like that to me on the company's website. 

I know nothing of the owner, manager, or company, but I'm no spring chicken. When I see such a long list of guide expecations, it makes me think that the company runs into problems with its guides. 

It looks to me like a adversarial working arrangement between the owner(s) and employees. 

I don't care where you work, that's not a lot of fun.


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## buckmanriver (Apr 2, 2008)

*WA reconsidered*

After completing my 2 year contract with WA my view of the company has has changed. This small essay should explain what i haft to say and the kind of person its coming from. Disregard the miss spelling and poor writing i did not take time to edit it. 

This Is where we stand. This is what i now tell people who want to work at WA

The senior guide trip down the Deloris the best way possible to plug back into WA for a second season. It was by far the most efficient 3 day raft trip that i haver ever been on. Hints we did a five trip and 3 days and spent a 2 days on the river. But the best part of the trip was that Joe Griner was on it. And after a deep conversation around the fire the first night. One in which every guide shared a short story about one thing that has changed the course of their life. WA went from being a raft guiding job with co workers, to a job with a few good friends and a community of people close enough to each other to share very personal events in there life that led them to a circle of people around a camp fire in the hart of southwestern Colorado desert country. 

This is me a 19-20 year old boater.

"I understand my lifestyle may eventually kill me. It is no different that high-risk lifestyle of the police officer or soldier, the fire fighter, the drug dealer and gang leader or the political revolutionary. I can not turn off my hunger. I demand more and more from myself. Each successful climb waters a small seed of dissatisfaction. It might have been to much, but it could never be enough. Some men have high ideals, which they're willing to die. for. Others are willing to try living for them. My hunger helps keep me alive. There is always more." -Mark Twight: Confessions of a Serial Climber.
My hunger keeps me alive it brings me to creeks like Oh-Be-Joyfull and to climb in the Black Canyon on routs like Russian Arreat. A route with so much lose rock and poor gear despite it moderate ratting of 5.9. Real 5.9 Laton Coor comparied the route to a game of Russian rulete. 

During the best possible rafting season a high water year. Where the river stayed over 3000cfs for over a month. Soon even with the worst crews I am not scared of the water and demand more from my self. After a few solo trips down the numbers in my kayak the same thing happens. I am no longer getting the fix. The creeks are to high to boat or mabey i just don't have the head to boat them at there pushiest levels... few do. Using the party seen is a dangerous way to fill this void. It is so easy to get fired up and just start climbing things and walking over bridges balancing on only the railing. In my head it is as easy as walking on the street. If my lifestyle is going to kill me i want it to be in the mountains or the rivers. Not in town.


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## Randaddy (Jun 8, 2007)

I worked for Breckenridge Whitewater. It is now owned by AVA. I have rent-a-guided for AVA and I will tell you that they are (IMHO) the best company running the upper stuff (Pine Creek, Numbers, Browns Canyon. Duke is a nice guy, he has many super experienced guides, he throws the best parties on the river (chime in if you've ever been to the crawdad boil!), and has good equipment. He understands if you partied a little too hard the night before, but still has expectations that make you become a better guide. The location is perfect too, you can live in Leadville or B.V., or camp across the road at Maytag. Great climbing near by, and Pine Creek is also right across the street. 

Oh yeah, and they guide Gore commercially. Some people like that, some don't, but you will be able to get some Gore time in if you want it. This can also extend the season a bit in low water years...

W.A. is retarded. They drug test guides and treat them like children. It might be a good place for an 18 year old fresh out of high school to guide and learn a little discipline, but if you've spent time on the water you'll hate being babied. You'll get fired for that hangover, charged for popping a boat or pulling off a d-ring when you wrap as a rookie, and you can't ever mention tips. Fuck that, most tourists don't know about tipping guides and a casual, appropriate mention is often needed. It's not tacky if you're simply being informative. Sure, you'll hear guides say that they loved working at WA. Of course they did, they guided rafts all summer. It doesn't mean that there aren't better opportunities.

The Arkansas guiding experience is one of camping, PBR, kickball at Kogan's land, Disco night at "The Rope", and trying to nail the college girls that come rafting. It is not about drug tests, employee housing, and all that hand-holding NOLS bullshit that's taking over the outdoor industry.

My 2 cents. I earned it on the Ark.


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## 1whitewattafoo (Nov 25, 2007)

I work at ava for 7 yrs now I have tried to leave that place but just keep getting way too much work to leave. 
As a rook at ava you only work half day full day or overnight trips. also half day trips at AVA pay you 3/4 day pay. its a fun place to work. we have caterers that make breakfast burritos in the morning so if you are a lazy bastard you can still have that great hangover breakfast burrito. and when you are on full day or overnight trip you go get your coolers from them and at the end of the day you drop it off to them. no dishes no pain, just pbr and pine creek numbers fun runs in the afternoons.... the down side to ava downstreeem work is the shuttle. it's the longest on the ark but once you are an upstream guide you have a 5 minute shullte for pine creek and 15 for the numbers. most fun trips are pine creek numbers generally putting in across the road from the boat barn and you can walk the hole if you want then run tripple dropp and through the numbs. If I were you I would definatly apply to PT and BJ's jimmy crain at pt is prably the best boss you will ever have, you can do multiple half day trips there and everyone is super fun. but if you work at ava you get to crash their 4th of july party starting by streaking those punks. bj's gives ya alot of work but watch out for those employee busses, I've lost my mind in there before. dont work at WA Also you should apply at TAC.


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## 1whitewattafoo (Nov 25, 2007)

tango said:


> i'm pretty sure employee housing is virtually nonexistent at most companies on the ark. unless you consider sleeping in a truck in the parking lot to be housing. there is plenty of free camping in the area though. i had a hard time looking for an apartment to rent in BV back in 2006, but did find one. most locals are not particularly stoked on the river guide lifestyle.
> 
> i think most of the WA kids stay in a trailer park by the little daisy liquor store. maybe that's what you're thinking of.
> 
> ...


Hey tango you gonna come down the grand in january with baer and gang. I heard you might be interested. as of right now there are 7 of us going, total cost should be under 1000.00. 

oh and hey ecarlson there aren't very many chics that work at ava, pt has loads of hotties, even if they are taken they are still better to look at then a bunch of dudes in neoprene. 

anyone interested in a winter grand trip that has access to a big raft and knows how to row that shit, is cool, isn't lame, and likes to get loosecome find me :twisted:


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## tango (Feb 1, 2006)

1whitewattafoo said:


> Hey tango you gonna come down the grand in january with baer and gang. I heard you might be interested. as of right now there are 7 of us going, total cost should be under 1000.00.


man i'd love to go, but i just got invited on a trip launching Nov 20th. at the moment i'm still trying to afford that one. yall are doing 30 days to lake mead or something ridiculous right? who else is going other than you and baer?

2 grand trips in one winter... maybe i can pull it off.


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## 1whitewattafoo (Nov 25, 2007)

tango said:


> man i'd love to go, but i just got invited on a trip launching Nov 20th. at the moment i'm still trying to afford that one. yall are doing 30 days to lake mead or something ridiculous right? who else is going other than you and baer?
> 
> 2 grand trips in one winter... maybe i can pull it off.


 
you should really try to pull it off..
Are you going with some aspen folks, my bud steve is launching nov 20th. um baer, matt house, his girl sally, jeff catlett(works for luke in browns), kevin maxie, fish and I, possibly liz, possible fred, have fun in november and hey could you save some drift wood for us. ahhhh 25 days to diamond jan 17th launch [email protected]


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## Barrie P (Feb 20, 2012)

*ARt*



Harry said:


> what are your thoughts about Arkansas River Tours?


Any feedback on working for ART?


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## brmidjones (Feb 27, 2009)

forget about it, it will ruin your life


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## Matt J (May 27, 2005)

ART is a well respected outfitter in the valley.


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## lmyers (Jun 10, 2008)

brmidjones said:


> forget about it, it will ruin your life


Hopefully you are being sarcastic, ART is well respected in the valley. Great owners and employees. You don't see them up on Numbers and Browns as much as others, but where they are located they can run long cheap trips in the Bighorn and Gorge.


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## Meng (Oct 25, 2003)

I worked there and lived at Itty Bitty circa summer 2003 and had a blast. If you like to kayak everyday, I do think BV is the place to be though.


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## DVKEXP (Aug 3, 2009)

tango said:


> man i'd love to go, but i just got invited on a trip launching Nov 20th. at the moment i'm still trying to afford that one. yall are doing 30 days to lake mead or something ridiculous right? who else is going other than you and baer?
> 
> 2 grand trips in one winter... maybe i can pull it off.


November 20th Tango... Nice we are taking some boats out of Phantom on the 18th. You know they are blasting it to like 42,000 then right..? Gonna be sick!



tango said:


> american adventure expeditions was just on Trading Spaces, so you can't go wrong there.


ha


tango said:


> yo i hear noah's ark is pretty rad if you hate drinking, getting laid, or making money.


ha

Thoughts:
Some companies in the Ark valley have on property housing and a lot of others will direct you to a campsite. Most of them have in house training, but this usually does not include SRT training ($375 course) or oar instruction (at least initially). 

The biggest question to ask yourself before becoming a river god is what your interests are. Do you want to see 7 different people every couple hours and hustle their fat A's down some riffles, or do you want to spend some time out under the stars learning the multi-day thing...

Shameless Plug: DVK has a May guide training that lasts 3 weeks and includes an SRT course and 4 different rivers right off the bat in your raft guiding career. We also have guide housing and food optionally included for those that are hired. This is probably the most expensive training around and due to that it deters some, but you must understand that your first trip is a 6 day Green River trip in Utah (clients pay a lot to go on that trip) and then you run 3 other rivers before your first work day. So at $750 it's not that bad of a deal. Usually our rookies have nearly 500 miles within their first month of work and from that point on you are entirely judged upon your skills. I. E. if you are competent in your first season then there is a chance we will check you out in the Royal Gorge or Numbers as well as give you some solid international connections to further your boating career. Many companies will not check someone out on a Grade IV section until at least their 3rd season.

Also if you scrub out of DVK for whatever reason (very few do) then you've got SRT Training and Echo or Noah's Ark will be all over your junk with that (it means you'd probably be the most trained at the company)...

You can't go wrong in the valley though honestly they are all winners in their own way. Except Noah's Ark those guys should just stick those whistles where the sun don't shine and learn some freaking river signals.


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## DVKEXP (Aug 3, 2009)

Last but not least get ready for some of this action, cause that's what the summer party season is all about!!

MACKLEMORE & RYAN LEWIS - THRIFT SHOP FEAT. WANZ (OFFICIAL VIDEO) - YouTube


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## Franz (Aug 12, 2014)

Zombie Thread! This thread currently spans 5 years, why not add a few more.

Anyone have any 411 on good companies still looking for guides on the Ark? So far I've tried 
WA - I'm too old and funny looking. (Went on the interview trip)
AAE - They'll call me back if they need me.
AVA- Full.
DVK - Full
RR - Didn't call back. 
Buffalo Joe's - Their phones don't work, are they still in business?
PT - only hiring inexperienced guides ( I thought that was me, but with my one season on class III+, I guess I'm a vet now) 

I realize it's very late to be finding a job, I've learned a valuable lesson about applying to more than one company. I still have offers to guide back in TN, but was really hoping to make the move out West this year. 

Ideally I'm looking for a respected outfit, that does oar and paddle guiding, runs the numbers and is in BV. PT fits all of those, if I can't find anything else I'm going to be calling them back and offer to give them $500 and be hired on as an inexperienced guide. Training is fun anyway, I just need to gather a few pesos.


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## fuzzysideup (Oct 23, 2013)

Give Chuck a call at Acquired Tastes, 719-839-1390. AT has a small guide roster - SO - if hired after training, rookies get more trips and are paid more than other companies. AT has hands down the best take out for their half day trips as well.


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## InflatableSteve (Jun 12, 2013)

Any of you guys have experience with WAO (Whitewater Adventure Outfitters)?


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## Randaddy (Jun 8, 2007)

Damn, you paid for the WA interview trip and didn't get an offer? Did they tell you you're funny looking? 

I inquired about a position this year with WA and the owner Joe told me I would have to pay for the interview trip. I'm a 13 year guide with 10,000 miles, WFR, SWR, etc. He actually told me that he doesn't like hiring experienced guides. Maybe he's cheap. His loss.

Lots of good companies on the Ark, but if you've spent one summer guiding on some other river they'll probably want you to pay for training - especially if you don't have a detailed training and river log.


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## RiversRohrer (May 7, 2011)

InflatableSteve said:


> Any of you guys have experience with WAO (Whitewater Adventure Outfitters)?


WAO is a good company. Can't go wrong working or boating with them.

If you're looking to guide out of Cañon City,
Clear Creek is worth a look as well and they are currently hiring (according to the Industry Ads section). They are a smaller outfitter but their head boatman is solid and the owner is a good guy.


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## DoStep (Jun 26, 2012)

There are also outfitters from beyond the ark valley that float here like eagle and summit counties and aspen/snowmass. Just keep on it, there is always work for someone who wants to work.


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## RiversRohrer (May 7, 2011)

In addition to Acquired Taste, you might check with Independent Whitewater although they aren't in BV.


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## PrEx (Feb 4, 2015)

Yep Noah's Ark has the hottest guides that you can't talk to... But they have a chilli cook off. Buff Joes is the closest to the Rope so you can get wasted and stumble home through the railroad tracks. If you want to run an all day half day talk to Aquired Taste. I personally like the fish tacos at River Runners. No matter where you go there you are.


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## InflatableSteve (Jun 12, 2013)

How many outfitters run Numbers? Also how long after you become a guide, before they let you guide Numbers?


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## lmyers (Jun 10, 2008)

Pretty much all the outfitters in the BV area run Numbers...except Noah's Ark. Don't think I've ever seen them up there. The companies located north of town definitely spend more time on Numbers (AVA, Kodi, Lakota, Timberline, etc).

As far as when.... I don't think anyone can tell you that. It would depend on your skills, the number of senior, experienced guides working for the outfitter, and customer demands. You can count on it being very unlikely in your first season with a company.


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## Randaddy (Jun 8, 2007)

InflatableSteve said:


> How many outfitters run Numbers? Also how long after you become a guide, before they let you guide Numbers?


You have to have 1,000 miles of Class III, at least 500 of which are commercial. You also need training time and a legal minimum of two practice runs plus a qualification run. Very few complete this in their first year. You pretty much need to be a boater already and already familiar with Numbers. Since 100% of first year raft guides come from Iowa this is rare.


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## RiversRohrer (May 7, 2011)

InflatableSteve said:


> How many outfitters run Numbers? Also how long after you become a guide, before they let you guide Numbers?


If you want statistics on what companies run on the Ark, then spend some time looking through this website:

Colorado Parks & Wildlife - River Outfitters


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