# Raft seat height



## cnalder (Jul 7, 2016)

I don’t have experience with rectech but several years ago bought a NRS flip seat. Put it on at home and hopped into seat. Wow it felt high. I did put 10” towers on at the same time. I said no way can I row being that high but had a lower Salmon trip coming up so decided to try. I came back and haven’t taken it off. If I was doing technical high water, I’d go back to the lower center of gravity. I love it the rest of the time as I have great visibility. That is on an aire 156r, not sure I’d still like on a narrower or shorter boat. It’s also amazing for fishing, you can see in the water so much better.


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## IDriverRunner (Aug 18, 2015)

I also have the NRS flip seat on my 156R (10" towers) and have one on back order for my Super Puma (8" towers). I have no issue being up that high.


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

Raises your center of gravity, and makes it easier for you to be thrown out of the seat in rough water. I see SO many folks sitting way up in the air and wonder to myself, why ? What advantage do you gain by doing this ? Perhaps I'm too old school, but sitting low reduces the forces on your oar towers, allows your center of gravity to stay low, reducing the chances you'll be tossed around... 

Just sayin


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## IDriverRunner (Aug 18, 2015)

MNichols said:


> Raises your center of gravity, and makes it easier for you to be thrown out of the seat in rough water. I see SO many folks sitting way up in the air and wonder to myself, why ? What advantage do you gain by doing this ? Perhaps I'm too old school, but sitting low reduces the forces on your oar towers, allows your center of gravity to stay low, reducing the chances you'll be tossed around...
> 
> Just sayin


I understand your position. That was my mentality until I tried it (and subsequently never went back). If I'm going to be tossed around I'm going to be doing so from the comfort of my high-back flip seat! haha

Honestly though, I feel more "locked" into the boat in a seat vs. drybox. The flip seat is the best way I've found to have a seat and utilize the space under it for a box. If there is a better/different way to achieve this and lower me down the extra inch that the flip seat takes up I am all ears. Until then I will keep flipping my seat, draining my cooler water, using oar rights, etc. Love you guys and gals!


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## cnalder (Jul 7, 2016)

MNichols said:


> Raises your center of gravity, and makes it easier for you to be thrown out of the seat in rough water. I see SO many folks sitting way up in the air and wonder to myself, why ? What advantage do you gain by doing this ? Perhaps I'm too old school, but sitting low reduces the forces on your oar towers, allows your center of gravity to stay low, reducing the chances you'll be tossed around...
> 
> Just sayin


Completely agree and if I was gonna do technical or high water, would definitely lower my center of gravity. For most class 2/3 rivers I actually like sitting higher, just see so much better.


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## craven_morhead (Feb 20, 2007)

Relevant to OP's interests:


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

Love that.. Well explained.. Good points.. Focus on the body mechanics, which is important.


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## LSB (Mar 23, 2004)

I like to be low too. I used a NRS high back seat for years but fairly recently I switched to a bench seat over a drop bag. Both setups are pretty much frame level. So I NEVER swim........


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

LSB said:


> I like to be low too. I used a NRS high back seat for years but fairly recently I switched to a bench seat over a drop bag. Both setups are pretty much frame level. So I NEVER swim........


Ouch, you better find some wood to knock on there my friend! Never say never!


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## LSB (Mar 23, 2004)

NEVERNEVERNEVER Swim... Bwahahahahahaha,


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## Rightoarleft (Feb 5, 2021)

Never say swim. In Latvia they call it body rafting.

I don't swim. I perform unscheduled aeronautic hydro-submersion maneuvers... to which any good captain will attest, is the most efficient way to train a boat in autonomy. And while we are on the subject of communing with fish, if an oarsman can get back in the saddle before his passengers know he's gone, does it still count?


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

Rightoarleft said:


> Never say swim. In Latvia they call it body rafting.
> 
> I don't swim. I perform unscheduled aeronautic hydro-submersion maneuvers... to which any good captain will attest, is the most efficient way to train a boat in autonomy. And while we are on the subject of communing with fish, if an oarsman can get back in the saddle before his passengers know he's gone, does it still count?


That brings a fond, well sort of fond memory of my commercial days on the Ark. Was running a Browns trip at 3KCFS, made it to Big Drop and the paddle crew was on top of their game, I decided (like an idiot) to gut Big Drop hole, which while doable at that flow, you had to hit it hard. I told my crew this, and at the top they DUG in, and I mean dug in.. We nailed the hole squarely and didn't slow down a lick. As the stern of the boat crested the back side of the hole, I got ejected right out of the back and into the water. Knowing that the river bent to the left at the bottom and there is a wall there, from the water I called a backpaddle, they missed the wall, I called left back 4 and a forward paddle from the water, the customers turned the boat 180 degrees and held it in the current as I floated to the boat and advised in a calm clear voice, NOW GET MY ASS BACK INTO THE BOAT!!. They had no idea I was in the water, didn't miss me one little bit till they saw me communing with the fish.. I got tipped well on that trip LOL.. 

The guides in my company anyway, never called it swimming if it happened to them, it was an unscheduled out of boat experience.. Customers swam LOL


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## ol'scruffy (Jan 25, 2021)

IDriverRunner said:


> I understand your position. That was my mentality until I tried it (and subsequently never went back). If I'm going to be tossed around I'm going to be doing so from the comfort of my high-back flip seat! haha
> 
> Honestly though, I feel more "locked" into the boat in a seat vs. drybox. The flip seat is the best way I've found to have a seat and utilize the space under it for a box. If there is a better/different way to achieve this and lower me down the extra inch that the flip seat takes up I am all ears. Until then I will keep flipping my seat, draining my cooler water, using oar rights, etc. Love you guys and gals!


Get rid of those oarights, just do it, you will be glad you did. Doing a river with big swirly's (Grand Canyon-Snake R) you are fighting boil's constantly grabbing your blades and it always occurs when you are in the middle of a big hole. No oarights you just change blade pitch and no more swirly grab...i quit using mine 25 years ago and now hate the things. I haul them along stored at the bottom of gear box for people who don't row much on technical rivers-middle fork Salmon. At some point we all should give up our "training wheels".


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## Rightoarleft (Feb 5, 2021)

MNichols said:


> That brings a fond, well sort of fond memory of my commercial days on the Ark. Was running a Browns trip at 3KCFS, made it to Big Drop and the paddle crew was on top of their game, I decided (like an idiot) to gut Big Drop hole, which while doable at that flow, you had to hit it hard. I told my crew this, and at the top they DUG in, and I mean dug in.. We nailed the hole squarely and didn't slow down a lick. As the stern of the boat crested the back side of the hole, I got ejected right out of the back and into the water. Knowing that the river bent to the left at the bottom and there is a wall there, from the water I called a backpaddle, they missed the wall, I called left back 4 and a forward paddle from the water, the customers turned the boat 180 degrees and held it in the current as I floated to the boat and advised in a calm clear voice, NOW GET MY ASS BACK INTO THE BOAT!!. They had no idea I was in the water, didn't miss me one little bit till they saw me communing with the fish.. I got tipped well on that trip LOL..
> 
> The guides in my company anyway, never called it swimming if it happened to them, it was an unscheduled out of boat experience.. Customers swam LOL


I love how, as the decades pass, our experience boils down to a handful of defining moments. 

In Grand Canyon, there are a handful of rapids that make oarsmen fret. Bedrock and Crystal seem to top the list and rightfully so as either may take your boat. I've never had a problem with them. The rapid I hate is Hance. It is long, hard to scout and delivers a train of opportunity to get flushed... resulting in 90 seconds of heavy whitewater to swim. It's the kind of experience that can ruin a day, or even a trip. If you have older folk in your party, it can be worrisome.

So I was nearly done with my Hance run. My line was far right which drops you over a staircase of bedrock, no big deal. I was exactly where I wanted to be... or so I thought until Hance invited me down for a chat. The bow broke deep and my hard deck struck bedrock. Full stop. River crashed over the stern and I was thrown forward with such force that it expelled my air before plunging me deep. It happened FAST. I was underwater before I even realized I wasn't holding oars. I was just suddenly getting twirled in the dark, deep depths of Hance's inner workings. I curled into fetal position and trusted in my PFD. Being down there with no air in my lungs seemed like an eternity but the currents kept me deep. Eventually, the forces relaxed and I shot to the surface. I didn't expect to see my boat nearby and was not disappointed. Looked left, nope. Looked right, nope. Did it vanish?!? Whatever, I started swimming for the eddy line I knew was coming and suddenly an oar shaft came over my shoulder. I spun around and there it was! It was a strange appearance but I grabbed the frame and before I could even start to pull myself in, a wave heaved me right back into the foot well. 

You ever get the feeling you are not in control? I was taken out. I was put back in. Good talk, Hance, good talk.


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## Rightoarleft (Feb 5, 2021)

ol'scruffy said:


> Get rid of those oarights, just do it, you will be glad you did. Doing a river with big swirly's (Grand Canyon-Snake R) you are fighting boil's constantly grabbing your blades and it always occurs when you are in the middle of a big hole. No oarights you just change blade pitch and no more swirly grab...i quit using mine 25 years ago and now hate the things. I haul them along stored at the bottom of gear box for people who don't row much on technical rivers-middle fork Salmon. At some point we all should give up our "training wheels".


I agree overall experience is better with open locks, especially in bigwater. I take it personal when current grabs my blade and keeps it. 

I encourage new boaters to ditch oar rights straight away but it is ultimately a matter of preference. It has been argued that open locks cause more mishaps than they prevent. That's probably a fact, especially with long oars on heavy boats where precise blade angle is key for power moves.

If a person is not in love with the art of finesse, they should probably keep the rights. And for small, fast rivers, I know expert oarsmen who lay a strong case for pin clips. Gasp! Horror of horrors!

Open locks are very satisfying but I don't push the issue. Different strokes for different folks.


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

Rightoarleft said:


> I love how, as the decades pass, our experience boils down to a handful of defining moments.
> 
> In Grand Canyon, there are a handful of rapids that make oarsmen fret. Bedrock and Crystal seem to top the list and rightfully so as either may take your boat. I've never had a problem with them. The rapid I hate is Hance. It is long, hard to scout and delivers a train of opportunity to get flushed... resulting in 90 seconds of heavy whitewater to swim. It's the kind of experience that can ruin a day, or even a trip. If you have older folk in your party, it can be worrisome.
> 
> ...


Hance is my nemesis as well. Never in all my runs thru it, did I feel I was 1) Where I wanted to be in the rapid, and 2) in control of where I was going. Only swam once in that miserable place, but nothing on the grand elicits such, well extreme concern is one way of putting it in me. 



Rightoarleft said:


> If a person is not in love with the art of finesse, they should probably keep the rights. And for small, fast rivers, I know expert oarsmen who lay a strong case for pin clips. Gasp! Horror of horrors!


I love my pins and clips, but i row open oarlocks just as well. They both have advantages and disadvantages. Opens, you can feather the oars, but you can also blow an oar out of the top, and I really hate when that happens. P&C, well no feathering, but no blown oars either. Given my druthers, I'll use P&C over opens any day, but I'd never run oar wrongs.. 

My 2¢, your mileage may vary.


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## peernisse (Jun 1, 2011)

Blastosist said:


> I recently installed a recretec slider seat on my dry box and now my seat height is much higher. Does anyone have experience with the slider seat and if so dId you increase oar tower height and if so how is your experience with the increased height.


I do not have that brand of seat, though I have a seat that fits over my dry box and folds over to get in the dry box. It is cool for fishing on a day trip. On any multi day trip it is just in the way. I have not used it in about 11 years, it hangs out in my garage still. I just strap a Paco pad on dry box. I think if you do want to use the seat, yes you may want to adjust your oar lock height or your oar stops (probably simpler) to accommodate that. I reckon you could find that fit well enough with some dry-land tinkering. Cheers.


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## NoCo (Jul 21, 2009)

I'm am a cooler sitter. Keep it low, your stroke feels better. I once got rid of a pelican cooler that I stole at the price I paid, just cause I felt it sat too high. 

As for oar rights. Get rid of them, get rid of your oar locks too. Pins and clips the superior set up. Besides open oar locks are $$ when compared to simple pins and clips. Besides the clip everything else is found at ace or recycled. 5/8 bolt $?. 3/4 schedule 80 pvc conduit $?. And I made my stirrups from cutting up some bias ply tire tread $free. I do buy the pin toppers from nrs for like $2.50 I think. Simple, cheap, indestructible.


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

Rightoarleft said:


> I spun around and there it was! It was a strange appearance but I grabbed the frame and before I could even start to pull myself in, a wave heaved me right back into the foot well.
> 
> You ever get the feeling you are not in control? I was taken out. I was put back in. Good talk, Hance, good talk.


That's awesome.

Got flipped in Lochsa Falls on Saturday. As I was setting up my roll and waiting for the confusion to stop, I suddenly found myself upright and breathing air. "Thanks, 'Falls!!"
My crew asked me how I rolled up so quickly. Had to give the river credit. Sometimes it's better to be lucky than to be good!




Rightoarleft said:


> If a person is not in love with the art of finesse, they should probably keep the rights. And for small, fast rivers, I know expert oarsmen who lay a strong case for pin clips. Gasp! Horror of horrors!
> 
> Open locks are very satisfying but I don't push the issue. Different strokes for different folks.


Yep!


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## Rightoarleft (Feb 5, 2021)

MT4Runner said:


> Got flipped in Lochsa Falls on Saturday. As I was setting up my roll and waiting for the confusion to stop, I suddenly found myself upright and breathing air. "Thanks, 'Falls!!"
> My crew asked me how I rolled up so quickly. Had to give the river credit. Sometimes it's better to be lucky than to be good!


I've seen river flip boats back upright. I've seen river put swimmers back into the raft. I've seen river give non-floating gear back. I've even seen river spare a swim by tossing an oarsman into the bow of his buddy's boat. 

I am still waiting for the honor of all honors --to have a river put an oar back in the lock for me.


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