# a rough day on the river and lessons learned



## JeremyTheMonster (Jul 12, 2010)

Is everyone in the group you were with new(er) to paddling? Have they run that run before? What kind of helmet were you wearing and how's the fit? From the pic, it looks like some cheapish ProTec with like a trucker hat underneath?

Edit: Also, what kind of LL boat is that? Looks like a Biscuit... Definitely not the boat I'd recommend to a new boater, going down a class III with any kind of sticky holes and lots of rocks.

Edit #2: Only asking some questions, as I'm also a newer boater. Been at this for a couple-three years. Best advice that was given to me about helmets: "Get something that at a minimum hangs over your ears. Get something that once you have it on, it's snug enough that no matter how you try to twist it, won't move more than a 1/2" in any direction." - If this incident gets you into use a full face, good. 

Also, I had a LL Biscuit. Hardest boat I'd ever been in to roll (aside from rodeo rolling)... I also paddled a LL Remix. Most stable and best boat to learn in, for me.


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## brandob9 (Jun 13, 2010)

There are two things I've come to know about safety gear: 
- If you can't breathe, you can't drown
- If you can't see up, neither can the river

Helmets and PFDs are two things where you just can't play games, as you've rather painfully discovered. On your next helmet, make sure it cannot rock back and expose your head. The WRSIs have a nice way to prevent this and the Sweet Rockers do well too. 

Good luck with the cut and your boating, and remember to get back on the horse.


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## gannon_w (Jun 27, 2006)

Why would you catch shit for being brave enough to tell your story giving the chance for other newbs to learn from your mistakes. EVERYBODY good has overestimated their ability on the way up. Of course you need to push yourself...otherwise you'll never progress.

The things you should take from this is that you learned a great deal about YOU and the people you choose/chose to hang out with. EVERYBODY in your crew should be there to help each other on the rivers...Otherwise choose a better crew.

If you wanna wear a full face during a golden pool session that's your HEAD and you shouldn't give a damn about what others think you look like. I say you buy a full face pink helmut with a "Girl paddlers stroke it better" sticker plastered on the side! Again, your friends and a good crew won't care if it makes you feel more safe and more comfy on the river!


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## WyoPadlr1 (May 5, 2005)

Glad to hear and see you are mostly ok. FWIW, that helmet looks highly suspect to begin with, then you made a classic mistake of putting a full-on baseball/trucker's hat underneath it, which raised it up even farther, exposing a lot of your forehead. If you want a visor for sun protection, add one to the outside of your helmet so it doesn't change the internal fit and height. 

The chin, well that's going to remain exposed unless you go all-out for a full-face creeker of some kind (the WRSI helmets have a removable jaw-bar for creeking / bony runs). If you get pasted to your back deck underwater in shallow conditions, the only thing you can try to do is get your forearm over your face and try to maneuver to roll or exit the boat. 

Boat choice might have had something to do with it, though hard to say nowadays. People run some steep rocky stuff in playboats and do fine, but their skill level is also usually very high. 

This is just coming from a crusty old boater who has had more than one empty boat go sailing around a corner and out of sight or get hopelessly pinned: you should forget about carrying your wallet, cellphone, and especially any shuttle vehicle KEYS in your boat. Loss of any or all of those can make a semi-bad day go really bad. 

Get a better helmet, get back on the horse......


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## brandob9 (Jun 13, 2010)

I should have mentioned earlier - I don't paddle anything in an exposed face helmet anymore. I've just seen too many people take shots to the face. I also wear elbow pads, every time. Kind of like how seatbelts feel to those of us who grew up with them - I just feel naked without them. 

I think it was the first time (maybe the 2nd) I had the WRSI verison of the fullface out, I was rolled at the top of a slide and sent onto the back deck. There I was, sliding upside down for 20 odd feet on my elbow pads and chin guard. I popped up when I reached the pool, and boy was I happy about that choice.


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## deepsouthpaddler (Apr 14, 2004)

Ouch. Sounds like a rough day. Be thankful you only got stiches and didn't get knocked out. 

A couple of observations. Your helmet is way to high on your head, which obviously exposes your forehead to rock hits. A properly fitted helmet snugs down to just above your eyes and protrudes enough so that a rock hit to the forehead hits your helmet, not your skull. The helmet needs to have a snug fit so that it won't ride back up. I've seen folks do the baseball hat under the helmet, but its probably a bad idea. Hats will likely make your fit worse, and some of the hats have a little metal button on the top that can potentially seriously hurt your head if you take a shot that smashes the button on your skull. I you need the visor (95% of people don't), you can get visors that attach to the outside of the helmet. Or you could get a helmet with a built in visor. 

You mentioned you put your wallet and phone in a drybag in your boat, which is a really bad practice, especially for a new boater. If you swim and loose your boat, all your shit is gone. Even if you don't lose the boat, but its pinned in the water and you can't get to it... your wallet and phone is in the boat. If you want to keep some extra cash, ID, etc... get a small dry bag and keep a $20 bill and a photocopy of your drivers liscense in your PFD or on you so you will have it if you swim.

You mentioned flipping upstream a couple of times. Lean downstream agressively when you hit features. 

You also mentioned bracing off the creek bottom... this means that you don't have a fast brace to stop you from flipping. I'd recommend lots of practice in flatwater on braces to get the brace instinctive.


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## jonny water (Oct 28, 2003)

When flipping, go to your set up position: head tucked and face toward your spray skirt and paddle parallel with your boat on your strong (roll) side. 

This position is crucial for protecting yourself, only exposing the back of your helmet and back of your PFD.

I have bounced down some nasty rocks in this position and came out fine, even with a non-full-faced helmet.


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## Ryanrugger (Jun 7, 2005)

Yeah, that helmet looks shitay to say the least. Get a wrsi, sweet, or a tdub from shred ready. The tdub has a ton of protection. It's your dome piece and you only have one so spend the extra money on a good helmet. Most of the deaths caused to boaters are related to trauma to the head, drownig secondary to the head trauma. Good luck and get back on that horse!


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## KSC (Oct 22, 2003)

Damn, you got worked. This sport can be pretty capricious. I've seen people go upside down in terrible places and come out unscathed and others take some big knock in an innocuous place.

No shame in wearing a full face helmet anywhere as far as I'm concerned. Ironically, new boaters tend to have the worst helmets and yet they're the most likely to use them - esp. the full face feature. Personally, my first day on the water was at Golden and I had no concept of edging the boat upstream vs. downstream. I flipped in a hole and smacked my face against the upstream rock forming the hole. Just a bruise fortunately, but I've seen a couple other guys get smacked in a similar way at the Golden playpark and walk away with blood pouring out their face. So don't be shying about wearing the fullface while you learn balance and body awareness in the boat.

Don't be too bummed out, we've all had that "oh shit" humbling as we got into boating.


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## abrayciv (Jul 5, 2011)

*Thanks for all the suggestions.*

Hey, thank you all for all the constructive advice guys. The Pro-tec is DONE, maybe I'll hang it on the wall with the bill from the hospital. I will start trying on new helmets as soon as my face can take it and I suspect they will be full-face lids. I would never DH with out my DOT approved Shoei full face and I think I should give the same attention to my noggin in the water. 

Boat choice was also questionable, I was in my LL Freeride, that I had only been in the water with once the day before. The folks I was with were all in JK Funs so I just went with what they were doing. These guys also are more highly skilled than I though, should have taken that into consideration. I have a JK Super Hero and probably should have brought that one out. I can actually roll the Freeride quite well..... when there's enough water. 

There will no longer be my wallet and phone in the boat. Photocopying my drivers license and insurance card and getting them in my PFD will most likely be the move. Also a paper list of phone numbers for the folks I go with will be included. My key was in my board shorts so at least I had that. 

As far a experience in the group, we had a pretty wide range from super knowledgeable and once a certified instructor, former raft guides, to me, the least experienced. One had experience in this section of water and knew the run, where to hit stuff, etc. I was definitely the weakest paddler and should have been more vocal with my discomfort in the terrain. The mindset of trial by fire needs to be leveraged against the possible consequences. I made a poor assessment of how quickly problems can compound in moving water,.. this is a lesson learned. 

I will most likely set up a private lesson or 2, or 3, before heading out again. There are definite holes in my skill set and I am a newbie. I've been bumming info from those around me and reading all the books I can get my hands on. To be 1 on 1 with an instructor that can point out the holes and correct them will most likely be the best way to advance. I'm going to take a bit of a break, do some mountainbiking, maybe backpack for a weekend to let everything settle and then I'll head back to the water. 

Thanks again everybody !! Its support like this that really makes me enthusiastic to become involved in this community. 

Thanks,


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## Claytonious (Jan 17, 2008)

It is also very good to think about not just the difficulty of the run, but the consequences of messing up. Fast, continous, and shallow class III has much higher consequences than pool and drop, deep class III with lots of eddies. If the consequences of being upside down are very high, then I would only run things where you feel totally confident in your ability to stay upright. In other words, for higher consequence runs, downgrade yourself one level (only run high consequence class III if you are a class IV boater etc..) High water might add another whole rating (or two) to things as well.

I can think of "class III" runs that I would feel comfortable taking a complete beginner on because they are so low consequence (deep water, lots of eddies, pool and drop style. Other "class III" runs should only be done by people who are completely confident in their brace and their roll (class IV or V boaters).


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## Skibum84 (Aug 30, 2010)

I just tightened up my helmet and checked the fit to avoid a similar accident. Thank you for sharing your lesson.


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## fids11 (Nov 26, 2009)

Good on ya for posting this. I got my A$$ handed to me in Bogan Canyon trying to step up my game this year and the singular thing that helped me most was getting back in there with a good crew at lower water. Got my mojo back that day and feel like I'm twice the paddler I was when I swam that section. After I swam, I realized I needed to improve my strokes, my scouting ability, and staying cool under pressure. Took that knowledge and started working on making tough lines and eddies on runs that I knew very well. Although I feel so much more confident now (since I've worked on my deficiencies), I'm not just bombing down any new run without scouting cuz I know the river will eventually get me and SWIMMING SUX in scary places. Now get your dome healthy, pick up a new helmet and get back in there! be safe and thanks for posting


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## Stuntmonkey (Jul 9, 2009)

Excellent share. Stuff like this reminds us to mind our safety gear. 
Personally, my biggest helmet issue is going from cold to warmer waters- where I wear a head warmer(NRS hood thingy) in very cold water but when it's not needed for warmer temps the helmet strap is loose, still adjusted for the hood. Since it's the last thing to put on before sliding in the water, "I'll tighten it later" turns into "I need to tighten this now!" after rolling and it's sliding all over my head.


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## adgeiser (May 26, 2009)

You can find helmet threads all ovver the buzz. You have felt what (essentially ) not wearing one feels like. It is really impressive to take a big hit with a good one on and feel it actually work. 
Glad you are ok. 
On clear creek and other high blast rock runs I always wear my full face.... hell, it's way more comfortable than my none full face.... I have pelretty much gone to wearing it for everything. Elbow pads are huge on some of our creeks as well.


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## gannon_w (Jun 27, 2006)

I paddled with a crew of 3 (1 lady, 1 American, & 1 British guy) and the Brit carried a laminated EKG in his vest!


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## Sidnye (Dec 9, 2003)

*I wear a full on cascade face cage (almost like a lax helmet)*

I know it looks a little fruity on the main payette.
I took a hard hit about 15 years ago and it scared me big time---almost made me give up kayaking.
The face cage is a crutch for sure but it makes me much more comfy----hard to drink a beer w/o a sippy straw though.


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## brandob9 (Jun 13, 2010)

Since you say you are a rookie, how tight are you in your boat? Remember that this is your new lower body and you'll need it to fit just right for maximum control. 

One other thing I learned early: "Cuban hips" - keep'em loose and sashaying!


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## abrayciv (Jul 5, 2011)

*cuban eh?*

My fit is actually real tight in that boat. I might suffer from white guy hips though, deff not as "loose and sashaying" as they should be. I am also not impressed with my reactions to losing balance. I don't think my reaction with a brace happens quickly enough. When you practice, you know that you are going to fall and on which side. I haven't talked someone into tipping my boat for me so I actually have to react,.. Quickly... like I said, lots to learn and the feedback on here is super helpful..


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## JeremyTheMonster (Jul 12, 2010)

I have a Freeride as well. I love it. I went from a Remix and Biscuit to the Freeride. The Freeride is solid, and for sure easy to roll.

Though, as a newer boater myself, I think it's comfy when you're trying to play, or run pool drop stuff. Clear Creek, I think it can handle if you've been boating a number of years like your friends. For us newbs, big monster boats are probably wiser on the outset... Like you said, lesson learned, take the Super Hero down new runs, especially the rocky fast moving kind like Clear Creek.


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## carvedog (May 11, 2005)

A better helmet and stop bracing upstream....you'll be fine. Glad you are relatively ok.


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## river_danno (Mar 29, 2011)

*Helmet discussion*

So on helmets, what are the safest ones out there? i have a WRSI, but i'm not crazy about how it fits. 

Are there other helmets on the market with the same safety features?


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## briandburns (Jan 12, 2010)

The hospital billed you, but I'm guessing the rafting company that came to your aid didn't. They sound amazing. Service and care come naturally to most folks involved in commercial rafting. They need a nice "thank you" letter from you to post on their wall, although you've probably already taken care of that. 
Thanks for sharing your story.


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## jbolson (Apr 6, 2005)

Surprised this hasn't been mentioned, but sounds to me like you were on a run that was considerably over your skill level. Gain confidence on runs like the Chutes on S platte, milk run on Poudre, Pumphouse to Rio on Colorado, Grizzly Creek on Colorado. Also, Clear Creek and many front range rivers are still running relatively high which adds difficulty.


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## coloclimber512 (Aug 29, 2009)

Thanks for sharing your story. I highly recommend wearing a full face/full cut helmet on a majority of the front range runs. Most of them are shallow and full of blast rock. Both of these helmets protect your ears and the full face obviously adds protection to your face. I had a similar helmet issue last year. I was a boater of about a month, pretty solid, good head from previous sports I had done and found myself running a creek run high on the NFSP. No problems for the first half of the run, we get to the next major rapid in the middle of the run. After scouting the rapid and noticing the two easy looking "from the trail" drops in the second half of the rapid I decide to run it. Stoked from watching to much boat porn, and the dreaded "I think I can do that" I saddle up in the eddy and peel out. The pushy water immediately throws me off line then proceeds to flip me. Missed two rolls then just tucked tight to my deck and hung on. I was wearing a shred ready above the ears type helmet. And while even staying tucked the river bottom was right there and drug my ear right across it. Jacking it up pretty good. Luckily after being hairy side down over two sizable drops I swam in the hole at the bottom with a scraped ear and some busted ribs. Good thing as we were only half way through the run. 1 portage and running everything else we got to the car and I nursed my wounds on the way back to Denver. Met at some pizza joint right by Confluence, my buddy always has to go into Confluence everytime we are near there. Straight to the helmet srction I go immediately I spot this "Sweet" full face helmet put it on fits like a glove. Check the price, damn! Like $380 US dollars. Needless to say the next day I went and bought that helmet. Gave my shred ready to my friend since the cinch strap worked way better to keep it tight than her WRSI. I only wear that helmet now. Playboating, river running, creeking, class 2-4. Doesn't matter. Sometimes people are like damn dude you look like your going to run waterfalls or something. My response always is. "Gotta be to work on Monday" Not sure what it cost ya to get stitched up. But I know I got stitched 5-6 years ago and the doc billed me for $308. With all the hits I have taken with this helmet id probably had to fork out way more than the cost of the helmet. If I break this one I will get another one straight away.


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## Jensjustduckie (Jun 29, 2007)

coloclimber512 said:


> Gave my shred ready to my friend since the cinch strap worked way better to keep it tight than her WRSI.


Your friends WRSI is not adjusted correctly if the retention system doesn't work. My WRSI helmet does not move on my head at all and the tighter my chin strap is pulled the snugger the cinch strap gets on the back of my head.


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## hojo (Jun 26, 2008)

abrayciv said:


> My fit is actually real tight in that boat. I might suffer from white guy hips though, deff not as "loose and sashaying" as they should be. I am also not impressed with my reactions to losing balance. I don't think my reaction with a brace happens quickly enough. When you practice, you know that you are going to fall and on which side. I haven't talked someone into tipping my boat for me so I actually have to react,.. Quickly... like I said, lots to learn and the feedback on here is super helpful..


Get in some relatively flat water and take a friend for a ride on the stern. That'll get your brace in good working order. Have em just simply try to climb onto the boat and every time you start to flip and brace they'll slide off and try again.


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## mbannister (May 19, 2006)

I think someone mentioned it but deep water is your friend. Pick and choose where you get your ass kicked. With deep water and big pools you can flip and swim all day long and not get hurt. Almost any mistake in shallow water will be painful, no matter how "easy" the run is. If you have easy access to a play park and a semi-decent roll surfing is a great reasonably safe way to learn leaning/bracing and perfecting rolling. Hike the park and practice punching holes forward, sideways and backwards, with lots of speed and no speed. Sounds like you had an educational experience, stick with it and have fun!


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## abrayciv (Jul 5, 2011)

*stopped by the raft guys yesterday*



briandburns said:


> The hospital billed you, but I'm guessing the rafting company that came to your aid didn't. They sound amazing. Service and care come naturally to most folks involved in commercial rafting. They need a nice "thank you" letter from you to post on their wall, although you've probably already taken care of that.
> Thanks for sharing your story.


Brought those guys and gals a box of beer w/ a thank you letter yesterday afternoon. Good folks. 

Maybe banging my face will actually turn out good, I now have a clear list of skills to work on, a list of helmets to check out, and a list of places that I Should be spending time paddling. Stitches come out wed, I will prob give it another week and I'll be heading out with my lists !!! Thanks again.


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