# govt shutdown possible 10/1?



## caverdan (Aug 27, 2004)

mania said:


> Does anyone know if this would affect a westwater launch we have Friday?


Time to start calling the BLM and river office. There is a good chance you will not be allowed to launch if it shuts down. We were at Table Rock lake when the first shut down happened years ago. The camp grounds around the lake are owned by the army corp of engineers. They shut down and chased off everyone camped in them. We were lucky to have rented an airbnb with a take out ramp, or we would have been forced to leave too. The second shutdown caught us at Lake Powell. They came and found us on the lake and made us leave. The last few fall trips to Powell had us researching when the next shutdown could occur and planning around that date. Good luck as this really really sucks.


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## jbolson (Apr 6, 2005)

caverdan said:


> They shut down and chased off everyone camped in them. We were lucky to have rented an airbnb with a take out ramp, or we would have been forced to leave too. The second shutdown caught us at Lake Powell. They came and found us on the lake and made us leave.


The government spends more during a shutdown because of this shit. And who does it impact most - you and I. This never occurred prior to 1980, now it is a political football. Sad.

I empathize with the boaters that will loose their trips if this happens.


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## B4otter (Apr 20, 2009)

No, it never occurred before Newt Gingrich, 1994-95.


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## ColoRobo (Jan 22, 2021)

Repubs would rather watch the country go to shit than give the appearance of the Dems getting a 'win'. So sad, but let's not fall into the trap of blaming both sides, cussing out all of the damn politicians. This looming shutdown is solely b/c of one party.


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## hysideguy67 (Jul 15, 2021)

It was quite liberating running an unnamed permitted river last year with a cancelled permit shortly after the rona shutdown. Complete solitude.... aaaaahhhh


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## LLubchenco (Nov 23, 2016)

hysideguy67 said:


> It was quite liberating running an unnamed permitted river last year with a cancelled permit shortly after the rona shutdown. Complete solitude.... aaaaahhhh


that's quite a different situation. Not sure how that applies to a government shutdown, but glad you got your kicks in solitude.


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## hysideguy67 (Jul 15, 2021)

LLubchenco said:


> that's quite a different situation. Not sure how that applies to a government shutdown, but glad you got your kicks in solitude.


I'd say when Federal and State Gov shuts down public lands it could be called a government shutdown. IMHO


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## TennesseeMatt (Jul 21, 2005)

This has my attention too. I'm curious how a shutdown will affect national forest access since the first rifle season for elk opens in CO in a few weeks. Any incite?

Matt


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## upacreek (Mar 17, 2021)

Shutting down the government during a pandemic, does depravity have no bounds for the Repugnicans? It's both figuratively and perhaps more literally _sickening_...not that these clowns even pretend to care anymore about who they hurt or kill, so long as it spitefully "owns the libs" and feeds the Faux News churn. 

I'll be curious whether the same folks on here who rail against the Dems for ethereal problems are even capable of acknowledging whose actually responsible for these losses of river trips/permits/access. My guess is...no


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## GeoRon (Jun 24, 2015)

caverdan said:


> Time to start calling the BLM and river office. There is a good chance you will not be allowed to launch if it shuts down. We were at Table Rock lake when the first shut down happened years ago. The camp grounds around the lake are owned by the army corp of engineers. They shut down and chased off everyone camped in them. We were lucky to have rented an airbnb with a take out ramp, or we would have been forced to leave too. The second shutdown caught us at Lake Powell. They came and found us on the lake and made us leave. The last few fall trips to Powell had us researching when the next shutdown could occur and planning around that date. Good luck as this really really sucks.


Just got back from Powell doing some sea kayaking. Glad I got my trip done before the shutdown.


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## raymo (Aug 10, 2008)

TennesseeMatt said:


> This has my attention too. I'm curious how a shutdown will affect national forest access since the first rifle season for elk opens in CO in a few weeks. Any incite?
> 
> Matt


Elk hunting will be great but the access will suck. Packing your game out will definitely take alot longer depending on where you can set up camp and park you vehicles. Get there a few days early and steak your claim. Have fun.


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## caverdan (Aug 27, 2004)

TennesseeMatt said:


> This has my attention too. I'm curious how a shutdown will affect national forest access since the first rifle season for elk opens in CO in a few weeks. Any incite?
> 
> Matt


The answer lies with CPW. Call them up. I bet that since it's a state run entity, you'll be good to go. It shouldn't effect the game warden's, but I'm not positive.


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## B4otter (Apr 20, 2009)

Just know that if you are "running an unnamed permitted river" after a shutdown - if access is closed by the administering agency/department (NPS, BLM, USFS, etc.) - law enforcement ("LE") personnel are deemed essential and not/not furloughed. That means they're on duty, often with less to do... since most visitors won't visit.

There's a long, sad, stupid history for Grand permits. Some years NPS has blockaded the road into Lee's, a few times causing justifiably angry folks who've spent a ton of time and money to prepare their trips to get into very personal confrontations with the rangers (LE personnel). Not a healthy situation for anyone...

You might get away with visiting "closed" public lands during a shutdown (MFS? Rogue? RHT-WW?) but if you do get busted be aware you will have to spend time&$ to contest any charges and it can be an expensive and lengthy process. 
Yes, they are our public lands. We should be able to visit/use them, and we can - but when "the Government" shuts down, that doesn't suspend its ability to manage/administer/police access.


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## hysideguy67 (Jul 15, 2021)

Being knee deep into the "not getting any younger" category our group decided to say screw it, let's go! We were well aware there could be consequences. It will go down as a top most memorable river trip of our lives


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## B4otter (Apr 20, 2009)

Happy for you - any "most memorable" is worth doing!


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## hysideguy67 (Jul 15, 2021)

B4otter said:


> Happy for you - any "most memorable" is worth doing!


It is and it was, thank you. Sometimes increased age doesn't equate to increased wisdom but wtf. We decided it was best to turn off any music and keep our mouths shut whilst rowing past a popular access. It was probably laughable watching 6 fully rigged boats row past the access, lined up in a row, everyone crouching low (wide eyed and giggling) in full view for 100s of yards.


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## JFOinCO (Oct 9, 2017)

Just looked at the gauge, a 2000 cfs/day increase. I guess it's raining over there. Have fun Dana


https://waterdata.usgs.gov/nwisweb/graph?agency_cd=USGS&site_no=09180500&parm_cd=00060&period=7


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## Electric-Mayhem (Jan 19, 2004)

Who knows about most permitted river areas...but last time the Government shut down, the state of Arizona said they would pay to keep Grand Canyon National Park operating. Obviously the COVID shut down was a thing too...but that wasn't due to lack of funding but because of quarantine/public health procedures.


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## azpowell (Aug 14, 2014)

upacreek said:


> Shutting down the government during a pandemic, does depravity have no bounds for the Repugnicans? It's both figuratively and perhaps more literally _sickening_...not that these clowns even pretend to care anymore about who they hurt or kill, so long as it spitefully "owns the libs" and feeds the Faux News churn.
> 
> I'll be curious whether the same folks on here who rail against the Dems for ethereal problems are even capable of acknowledging whose actually responsible for these losses of river trips/permits/access. My guess is...no


We are almost 30trillion dollars in debt.... shut the whole damn thing down until these asshats (both sides of the shitbird) figure out how they are going to actually pay for anything. I could care less about a few permits or access. eventually someone has to pay for all this. People need to stop financing our shit off my kids future labors. It's like running up a credit card that your kids have to pay off after you die. 


On a side note if there is a guy that can stand at the road into Lee's and tell you, "you shall not pass" then his ass can sit at the launch ramp and sign your permit and check your gear... no excuses for this.


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## ratking (Sep 23, 2021)

azpowell said:


> We are almost 30trillion dollars in debt.... shut the whole damn thing down until these asshats (both sides of the shitbird) figure out how they are going to actually pay for anything. I could care less about a few permits or access. eventually someone has to pay for all this. People need to stop financing our shit off my kids future labors. It's like running up a credit card that your kids have to pay off after you die.


Shutting down the government over budgetary decisions that were made by Republicans while Trump was in power doesn't make a lot of sense, especially when the act of doing so would cause serious financial harm to the country.


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## azpowell (Aug 14, 2014)

I don't give a shit who did what... we haven't had a "budget" in a long time. these people need to go line by line and cut everything and fix the budget. Government spending is completely out of control, inflation is through the roof, folks are trying to spend another 5 trillion dollars this year. All these idiots need to be run out of congress and tar and feathered for what they have done.


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## hysideguy67 (Jul 15, 2021)

But apparently it won't cost a thing. That's what I heard. BTW mania, hope you get your trip


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## ratking (Sep 23, 2021)

azpowell said:


> I don't give a shit who did what... we haven't had a "budget" in a long time. these people need to go line by line and cut everything and fix the budget. Government spending is completely out of control, inflation is through the roof, folks are trying to spend another 5 trillion dollars this year. All these idiots need to be run out of congress and tar and feathered for what they have done.


I don't know you so I'll assume you were this upset when Trump signed the 2017 tax cuts and jobs act which added 2T in debt to pay for corporate stock buybacks. 

Regardless, not raising the debt ceiling just makes the situation worse.


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## azpowell (Aug 14, 2014)

ratking said:


> I don't know you so I'll assume you were this upset when Trump signed the 2017 tax cuts and jobs act which added 2T in debt to pay for corporate stock buybacks.
> 
> Regardless, not raising the debt ceiling just makes the situation worse.



The old tax cut the unleashed the stock market, made a killing on my 401k. Was super stoked about them cutting taxes, wasn't happy they didn't cut the budget at the same time...

Thing about not being a member of the 2 parties is I'm able to say "hey these assholes didn't balance the budget either", and I don't think the excuse of " well the other party didn't do it last time so we don't have to do it now" is OK... all of them, lined up, tarred and feathered.

But back to the original intent of the post, I launch on a trip on Saturday and will be fighting mad if some government dork says I can't float on a river because "its closed"...


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## hysideguy67 (Jul 15, 2021)

I'd say the debt ceiling is stratospheric already but we digress. If'n guv shuts down til they decide to play fair..... PLEASE take my fees, fines donations, etc and let us be. We'll leave our campsites, campgrounds and all dispersed areas for the better. Altruistic? Yep. Far fetched? No. I trust in goodness. Mania, do it!


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## Andy H. (Oct 13, 2003)

Looks like they reached a deal to keep the government funded. And that extra 2000 cfs is going to make for a much more fun ride!









Senate reaches deal to avoid government shutdown, Schumer announces


The bill would ensure that the federal government remains open until December.




www.nbcnews.com


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## sporkfromork (Dec 16, 2020)

There's also a chance you just walk up to the boat ramp and put on, no ranger, no nothing. I've pulled up to Westy and had a permit but there was nobody there to check it, it was on a Monday I think


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

sporkfromork said:


> There's also a chance you just walk up to the boat ramp and put on, no ranger, no nothing. I've pulled up to Westy and had a permit but there was nobody there to check it, it was on a Monday I think


There is a self-check-in process, there is a metal box to the left of the kiosk where you fill out your information and place your permit in the box. Just to the right of that is a campsite sign up sheet. As long as you have a legitimate permit, you can launch ranger or not.


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## John the welder (May 2, 2009)

On Labor Day there was no check in ranger but a law enforcement officer did put in a little before we did. I think he was mostly looking for non permitted trips.


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

John the welder said:


> On Labor Day there was no check in ranger but a law enforcement officer did put in a little before we did. I think he was mostly looking for non permitted trips.


That would be Jeff Arbon, he is Utah State Parks, and not affected by the federal government. You will find him anywhere from cataract all the way up to the state line.

Really nice guy, if you take the time to get to know him and don't lie to him lol he worked for Utah State Parks for like 8 years and then went to Utah State patrol for another 8 years and came back to Utah State Parks, he's a total LEO, but a real nice guy too, unless you're fucking up..


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## John the welder (May 2, 2009)

Yes, Jeff was his name and he was a very nice guy. He quickly looked us over and gave us a nod of approval. Then he was on his way.


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## mkashzg (Aug 9, 2006)

Jeff is definitely a good guy and I have attached a photo of a trip I did with him in 2011 on the Floodstage on cataract at about 77,000 on big drop 2 and it was off the hook! I am in the front right in yellow. It was quite a day!


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## MNichols (Nov 20, 2015)

mkashzg said:


> Jeff is definitely a good guy and I have attached a photo of a trip I did with him in 2011 on the Floodstage on cataract at about 77,000 on big drop 2 and it was off the hook! I am in the front right in yellow. It was quite a day!
> View attachment 70397


I'll bet it was, can barely see you,but that looks like a line he'd take 🤣


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## americanspiritcarshuttle (Mar 17, 2020)

hysideguy67 said:


> It was quite liberating running an unnamed permitted river last year with a cancelled permit shortly after the rona shutdown. Complete solitude.... aaaaahhhh


Good for you! They are taking away more and more of our freedoms. Don't knuckle under!


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## americanspiritcarshuttle (Mar 17, 2020)

mania said:


> Does anyone know if this would affect a westwater launch we have Friday?


I just spoke with Moab field office of BLM. Both RH and Westwater Canyon sections are open.


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## ratking (Sep 23, 2021)




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