# Selway River Accident - May 2018



## cowboyclay (Jan 28, 2018)

I’m sure many of you have read or heard about this terrible accident on the Selway where 4 individuals unfortunately lost their life when the vehicle they were driving went into the river. For anyone with a Facebook page, search “Finding Reece Rollins” and listen to the video that the family of Reece did a few days ago telling their side of the story. I had only planned to listen for a few minutes but could not stop listening to the hell the family must have been going through and the lack of help and answers. Now I realize that this is only one side of the story and not wanting to get any of the searchers into any trouble, but shame on any of the authorities, individuals, and any of the rafting companies that stonewalled this family. My heart goes out to them!


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## slickhorn (Dec 15, 2005)

This is a super sad story, and I send my deepest condolences to anyone connected to those missing. Very very sad.

I haven't watched this video, but the Selway was ~30,000 cfs at that time. Literally no one - including expert preseason boaters - were on the river or able to access the putin at that time. 

Other than overflights, it's hard to see what could reasonably be expected in terms of a rescue. Are overflights legal in the Frank Church Church wilderness? Google tells me the FS was busted for using helos in there. 

The expectations around what might reasonably be done seem way out of whack with the conditions. 

Not that the average person might realize that...


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## wshutt (Jun 20, 2013)

I agree I don't think they have a clue what that water is like at those flows. If I was the Sheriff I wouldn't be sending anyone in and it would be gross negligence to put a rescue team in that kind of danger. I find myself getting mad at people who expect above and beyond rescue attempts be them on water, up mountains, flying choppers in bad weather etc etc.


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## mkashzg (Aug 9, 2006)

I wanted to say the same thing but was afraid to say it in a difficult time. Too many people in this country recreate outdoors and expect to be bailed out if they fuck up. If you pulled that crap in New Zealand you'd be on your own, no questions asked.


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## cowboyclay (Jan 28, 2018)

Did you guys even watch the full video? I would hope if it was your family in that situation that you wouldn’t just say oh they are in the vehicle and we aren’t going to look for them. From what I heard there were plenty of people willing and ready to help search but were not allowed to.


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## carvedog (May 11, 2005)

cowboyclay said:


> Did you guys even watch the full video? I would hope if it was your family in that situation that you wouldn’t just say oh they are in the vehicle and we aren’t going to look for them. From what I heard there were plenty of people willing and ready to help search but were not allowed to.


No I didn't watch the whole video. Well over an hour long. You may have the time to invest in this tragic situation but I don't. 

I have empathy for the parents losing their son. And it must be traumatic to think that he may never show up. But he's gone. And to put other potential rescuers into great risk would not be good. 

I did click thru and listen a bit. I heard one description of someone wanting to ride a cooler over the river on a rope to look. Just sounded weird to me. And what does 'the rafting companies' have to do with any of this. 

Please break it down for me. How and what would they have stonewalled? Not wanting to put resources on the river at extreme flood stage? 

They can't stop anyone from doing anything, any more than the Sheriff could. If you wanted to stand by the river for a week and look for someone, there would be no law to stop them from doing that.


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## slickhorn (Dec 15, 2005)

I watched parts of the video. "If ya can't say somethin' nice..."

I will simply say I am glad there are no additional people in need of rescue from dangerous rescue efforts on the Selway at 30,000 cfs when there was no access. 

I did notice they took their story to the Lars Larson show, a local-to-me talk radio personality who commonly rants and raves about the nanny state. 

hmmm. 

It is a very sad accident, no question.


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## cowboyclay (Jan 28, 2018)

Well if you don’t have time to listen to the whole thing then this really isn’t anything up to debate here because there is a lot to it. I honestly had no intention of listening to hardly any of it, but once I started listening to the bullshit they had to go through I couldn’t really stop. Like I said it is only 1 side of the story but the response was pretty damn poor in my opinion. If my son had been in that vehicle I would for sure hope for more help and more information. As far as the rafting companies. Well the family was trying to get to the other side of the river to search the other bank but they couldn’t find anyone who would rent them a raft for fear of losing their permit for the river. Sounded as if the word had been been given by the sheriff not rent any equipment or risk losing their permits. And I don’t think they were trying to do anything crazy and unsafe. But like I said if you don’t have time I understand, but the response sounded pretty piss poor and I have a hard time not believing the father! He seems like a pretty stand up guy!


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## carvedog (May 11, 2005)

cowboyclay said:


> Sounded as if the word had been been given by the sheriff not rent any equipment or risk losing their permits. And I don’t think they were trying to do anything crazy and unsafe.


Have you seen the Selway at 30,000 cfs? I have seen it close to 20K and with multiple years of experience it was a puckering event for me. Without having extensive rafting experience and some very good kayakers on standby for rescue of the rafters, I wouldn't even consider it. 

That the rafting outfitters would not want to rent rafts to someone wanting to do the Selway at flood stage is a very responsible way to keep more people from dying. They would almost certainly lose their equipment anyway. 

Something doesn't add up to me. The sheriff would have absolutely nothing to do with anyone's permits on the Selway. That is federal. Sheriff is county. And the USFS is not known to bow down to county government. 


If there are folks in the area that rent rafts, they would not need a permit to do that and the Sheriff would not have any input into that either. A business license may be needed depending on where they are located. Almost all businesses in that area are in Montana, not Idaho. And the Sheriff of an Idaho county would have squat to do with who is renting what to whomever else. g

The conspiracy theory angle just makes the whole thing fall apart for me. If it was feasible they would have rescuers in there. What little bit I know of this incident of the known factors tell me that rescue or recovery is not likely or feasible at that water flow. 

The poor woman who went into the log cave on the Rogue was there for several weeks. They could do nothing because it was too dangerous. And they knew exactly where she was.

There was also a situation on the Payette where someone rented a raft. Tehy were told where to go to raft, where not to go and were warned by several people including some kayakers that I know. They launched on the NF Payette in a class 5 section. Of course they flipped and the mother tragically died in a log jam in front of her family. 

I know the family is hurting and they have my complete sympathy and I hope they find peace and their son. To start pointing fingers at people over what they think should have been done will not bring him back or help the situation. I can't stress enough that the water flow at the time was extremely dangerous. 
No one that I know of that rafts would even consider it. And I have been down five times at high water with some very capable rafters with tons of experience. We had four flips on the last trip.


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## slickhorn (Dec 15, 2005)

cowboyclay said:


> I don’t think they were trying to do anything crazy and unsafe.


All righty then. I guess the sheriffs, outfitters, FS, and SAR are just wimps.


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## Grifgav (Jun 20, 2011)

cowboyclay said:


> As far as the rafting companies. Well the family was trying to get to the other side of the river to search the other bank but they couldn’t find anyone who would rent them a raft for fear of losing their permit for the river. Sounded as if the word had been been given by the sheriff not rent any equipment or risk losing their permits. And I don’t think they were trying to do anything crazy and unsafe.


Crossing that river at 30K in a raft is completely crazy and unsafe...which is why SAR wouldn't do it...


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## LJPurvis (Apr 12, 2017)

CowboyClay,

This is a sad story. You keep making the statement that "if that were my/your son in the truck...". I have a cousin that is search and rescue. Their team is highly trained to handle very dangerous situations. However, they don't do anybody any good if they get hurt or die in a rescue/recovery attempt.

So I will ask you this, if that were your son/daughter that was ordered to perform a dangerous rescue, would you condone it?

The military, the police, the fire department, SWAT, etc., ALL of them assess the situation and will not risk the lives of their teams to perform a rescue or recovery that they deem to be too dangerous. And the county sheriff has the authority from allowing any individuals to perform such an attempt if it has been deemed too dangerous.

It is sad. Very sad. But it could have been much sadder.


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## cowboyclay (Jan 28, 2018)

Guys I’m not gonna debate this on here if you don’t want to bother to watch the whole video and truly get a grasp of the entire story and response. I would like to hear the other side of it also. 

Carvedog the whole riding the cooler deal was one of the 2 survivors who was on the other side of the river and then swam back across the river when the sun came up and they used the cooler on a rope to try and help get him to the bank. It was a self rescue operation and not what you implied.

Having volunteered my own time as well as many close friends that participate in our local SAR I am by no means suggesting putting anyone else in danger and making the situation any worse. If you actually took the time to listen to what actually happened you may have a different perspective.


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## idaho_h2o (May 5, 2005)

I did bother to watch to the whole video and agree with others here. 

I've also boated the Selway at ~35k. It took four hours on the water to go from Paradise to the Falls. Searching the same couple of miles near the accident is silly. Could you ferry across at that flow- sure. Is a county sheriff / SAR likely to condone that or have someone qualified- no. Two Bear flew and detected no heat signature of live body. Why risk lives for a recovery?

Last year it took all night to get in to Paradise. We had torrential rain, downfall, rock slides, blowouts, etc. The rest of our party that drove in earlier that morning had no problems at all. Just while we were driving the river went from ~4.5ft to ~7ft. Pretty regular event with rain on snow in that country.

I'm also not sure many folks commenting on the facebook page understand the geography involved here. It's not like the sheriff can hop in his truck and drive 20 minutes to the accident site. Even though parts of that road were rebuilt recently I seriously doubt they were engineered for the size of equipment they were hoping for to pull the car out. Also seems to be a fair amount of ignorance of agencies/ entities involved- sheriff threatening outfitter permits- doesn't hold water... 

This ain't Disneyland, if you play in the backcountry you should be prepared to face the consequences. That may include your family never having a body to bury. Having said that, if it was my loved one, I'd be out there using every resource I could muster to find closure- certainly don't blame them for that.


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## slickhorn (Dec 15, 2005)

idaho_h2o said:


> Two Bear flew and detected no heat signature of live body.


I am really glad to hear they took this step. 

What is reasonable to expect, in terms of further resources, if the statement above is true? Overflight w/infrared is the only conceivable way to cover that terrain.


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## MThikergirl (Jul 7, 2016)

I skipped through but listened to the bulk of the video. My heart goes to the families involved. I live in the Bitterroot, and this was on the news quite a bit. I know our SO had deputies up there since we are "closer" then the ID deputies, but even that took a few hours as this is a remote location and MT deputies would make it hours before an ID deputy would. I know Two Bear Air flew immediately. They kept saying it took hours for them to show up. Two Bear Air is based out of Whitefish, about 3 hours (most likely further) by car north of this location. Its wild country up there, and so is the river. Especially run off this year. I don't have any information other then the news reports that aired multi times for multiple days about this.


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## caverdan (Aug 27, 2004)

I'm not a Facebooker, but was curious as to where is accident took place. I came across this news article and the comments at the end of it. This might help shed some more light on the actions the sheriff took to look for the missing hunters. Condolences to the family and friends of all that are missing. 
Terrebonne Man Still Missing In Idaho Wilderness


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## carvedog (May 11, 2005)

Good lord. The one parent is now trying to get the Prez and the NRA involved. Veiled threats: 'guns don't kill people, people with problems kill people' WTF kind of crazy is this? And people commenting on that article wanting the Sheriff to lose family members so he would know how it feels to the family. That is despicable. 

Where this happened is on the edge of the some of the roughest and wildest wilderness in the Lower 48. Grangeville ( where the Sheriffs office is) is only 65 to 80 miles away, depending on where the accident took place. But it is almost five hours drive to Darby and then another 2 to 3 to get in to the location on the river. And it's rough road. One time we had four flat tires (in the group) and blew up a trailer on the way in. 

And reading thru the comments it looks like family did bring in a raft and a diver perhaps...but I thought the evil sheriff wouldn't allow it? And people commenting that the water is 'not that bad'. 

Looks like it pinned the Suburban to a rock in the river. 



















And if you watch this news report the parents of Reece admit that the Sheriff said they could search if they want. What about the allegations that he tried to stop them from searching. 
The Sheriff would also have a certain amount of liability if he put people in the water to search and they got hurt. 

Search for Reece Rollins - Zolo Media

I know these people are hurting and they want to find their son, but they are lashing out at the wrong people.


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## kfalls (Sep 10, 2015)

*similar*

Family of climber who died on Mt. Hood sues for $10M - KOIN

This is another sad story but is similar. A man fell while climbing Mt Hood and was evacuated in 5 hours. This is a fast recovery for a mountaineering accident. However, his family is suing the county for wrongful death because it took them 5 hours to get him off the mountain.


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## kfalls (Sep 10, 2015)

On the other hand, you can't really expect parents who have lost a child to act rationally and think logically. This pain will cut deep until the day they die. 

The problem with all this is that it hurts the local search and rescue units because they have to use funding to defend themselves should this go to court.


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## slickhorn (Dec 15, 2005)

carvedog said:


> Good lord. The one parent is now trying to get the Prez and the NRA involved. Veiled threats: 'guns don't kill people, people with problems kill people' WTF kind of crazy is this? And people commenting on that article wanting the Sheriff to lose family members so he would know how it feels to the family. That is despicable.


I dunno, Trump on the Selway at 30k sounds like a great idea to me ...


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## randowhite (May 7, 2010)

I've seen the put-in at 11.5 feet and would never send or approach the water in any craft....heck Snow cap creek had some class 5 moves at that level.....
we enter life as a miracle and sometimes exit in a whirl wind.....


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

cowboyclay said:


> Now I realize that this is only one side of the story and not wanting to get any of the searchers into any trouble, but shame on any of the authorities, individuals, and any of the rafting companies that stonewalled this family.





cowboyclay said:


> Well if you don’t have time to listen to the whole thing then this really isn’t anything up to debate here because there is a lot to it. I honestly had no intention of listening to hardly any of it, but once I started listening to the bullshit they had to go through I couldn’t really stop. Like I said it is only 1 side of the story but the response was pretty damn poor in my opinion.
> 
> 
> 
> But like I said if you don’t have time I understand, but the response sounded pretty piss poor and I have a hard time not believing the father! He seems like a pretty stand up guy!


I'm not sure you do realize there is only one side to the story, nor are you actually looking for a rational discussion, cowboyclay, but I'll give it a shot. Yes, per your debate rules, I watched the entire video:


The family is in hell right now. Their son is presumed dead, but they have absolutely zero proof. They're anxiously wondering whether there's a tiny hope he's still alive, and they're feeling insanely guilty that they may not be doing EVERYTHING they can to act on that hope.
The river was at 30,000cfs. This is a boating website. I would presume that anyone reading this thread would have a general idea of how large of water that is, particularly in the Idaho wilderness.
The father says multiple times that he's not an expert on kayaking, or rivers, or rafting, yet he presumes to shame those who are. See note #2.
The number one rule of swiftwater rescue is *do not put yourself in danger*. Within the first couple of hours after the accident, this changed from a rescue to a recovery. Again, acknowledging the hell the family is in, they still wanted others to risk their lives for a recovery. Sorry, that's not good swiftwater decision-making.
Conversely, I just yesterday finished "Never Turn Back", the biography of Walt Blackadar by Ron Watters. In this book, one of Blackadar's boating companions, Julie Wilson, perished in a waterfall on the WF Bruneau; Blackadar later died on the SF Payette. Their families, knowing the risks of whitewater, didn't ask for inordinate rescues/recoveries; yet they still faced the same loss.

_Does someone who doesn't know the risks deserve a greater risk from their rescuers than someone who does know the risks?_


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## shannon s (Feb 20, 2015)

slickhorn said:


> I dunno, Trump on the Selway at 30k sounds like a great idea to me ...


Seconded...we have a motion.


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## semievolved (Nov 12, 2011)

Seconded...we have a motion.
Aye vote


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## natepelton (Feb 24, 2011)

Read more here: Body found of one of 4 missing hunters who crashed in Selway River | Idaho Statesman​
One found



Body found of one of 4 missing hunters who crashed in Selway River | Idaho Statesman


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## mkashzg (Aug 9, 2006)

Hopefully they will do a toxicology report. so they were out chasing wolves in the middle of the night!??


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## Conundrum (Aug 23, 2004)

mkashzg said:


> Hopefully they will do a toxicology report. so they were out chasing wolves in the middle of the night!??


They might have been setting up for a first light hunt. If they were not, they would either be committing crimes for wildlife harassment or hunting outside of hunting hours. Either way, a bunch of early 20 year olds at a car based hunt camp in the woods sounds like there could have been some drinking going on. 

With the tragedy that happened, I'm not sure a toxicology report is going to help anything. Two thirds of the occupants are dead. The family is grieving. Maybe if the family wanted to prove they were sober it might help there but I don't see the point.


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## pezeshki (May 13, 2018)

*Spent a lot of time in that country..*

I listened to a goodly amount of the family's video. It's a tragedy, and it is never clear whether it is Ravalli County Sheriff's office, or Idaho County's sheriff who didn't deliver appropriate service. 

From the comments, it's pretty obvious that most of the armchair quarterbacking is happening from people that have never been to that spot. Paradise is a long way from Darby, and literally on the other side of the mountains from the Idaho County seat.

The Selway at 30K cfs (which I have run multiple times at that level -- that's the easiest time to get a permit because of cancellations) hauls ass. The family seemed to have focused close to the site, unfamiliar with the raw force of the river. The sheriff may have been incompetent -- Idaho County is low on resources, and a poor, enormous county. Ravalli County has more money, but it's still a huge place, and Paradise is a long way from the backside of the Bitterroots. 

I don't know exactly where the rig went into the river, but the canyon along the road before Paradise is super steep. I have no idea how one would meaningfully hike on the far bank. 

It's a tragedy of disorientation -- the folks in the video are obviously not familiar with the topography off the road, how the river actually works, or the vegetation. When you add a lackluster performance by under-resourced, remote sheriffs' departments, it just gets crazier. The family wonders why a TV crew doesn't show up. They obviously do not understand how disconnected from the world this little patch of real estate is.


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## MThikergirl (Jul 7, 2016)

Well local news is saying they have found a second body, but the article doesn't make much sense

Body of 2nd missing hunter recovered near Selway River - KPAX.com | Continuous News | Missoula & Western Montana


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## pezeshki (May 13, 2018)

The fact that both bodies were found 40 miles downstream, unfortunately, doesn't indicate if they drowned when the car went into the river, or if they drowned trying to swim back to the river right side. We'll never know.

When I go back there, I have no illusion -- there will be no help, and I'm on my own. Whether the sheriff was competent, or incompetent, doesn't matter. I've arranged heli-vacs back there and it takes a minimum of four hours. Forget terrible weather and nighttime.

As we continue to cut federal budgets for anything other than science-fiction weaponry, we should have no illusion that there exists adequate search-and-rescue in these areas, nor will there be in the predictable future. I was just in the Escalante country, canyoneering, and there is only one ranger in the Escalante District -- gotta be 500K acres- and only volunteer search and rescue.

I think the family is still grieving their loss, and can't believe the actual status of the country we live in, or the effects of the chronic defunding of our society.


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## Wildernessismylife (Jun 19, 2018)

This is a sad story all around. 4 young people passed away from driving into a raging river in the backcountry of Idaho. I stopped and looked at where they drove in, the two passenger side tires were off the road for 20 plus feet before the vehicle left the road and rolled into the river. It traveled forward for another two to three car-lengths before it entered the river 25 vertical feet below the road. It looks like the suburban probably entered the water inverted. It’s resting place in the river was about 100 feet downstream. It was 3am and the group was going after wolves they hear howling at that time. That raises legality questions. It was their last day of the hunt. 
The first victim was found about 40 miles downstream on this last Tuesday. The second was found Thursday morning. He was about 70 miles downstream.If you think about it, these guys floated through class 4 water for almost 3 weeks. Rocks, logs water traveling almost 6-8 miler per hour, 24/7 as they say. I’m amazed there were 2 found under these conditions. There are 2 more missing. There is the French family that is missing a member from last year, they only found license plate, they never found him or his vehicle. The young lady from Grangeville that disappeared in the salmon 2 months ago. They may never be found. Idaho is wild, it is untamed, it is a challenge. That is what is intriguing and also a hardship for families if accidents happen. Heroic efforts if there is a chance but No one should risk their life for a body recovery. That is the experience and training of our first responders, all around sad but SAR has family too.


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