# Holy Crap! (thats a big rapid)



## flyfishing (Feb 18, 2014)

Fear and fun go side by side. If you have no fear you will end up dead. On the other hand if you are constantly scared sh!tless you may choke at the wrong time and really end up regretting it (hurt someone else). Fear is healthy.


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## Stiff N' Wett (Feb 18, 2010)

Being scared and keeping your wits is what its all about. If your scared shitless during the run but then smiling and feeling alive afterwords then that's great. If your always scared and don't want more than maybe a new career is in line. Everytime i flip or go for along swim yeah its really scary but when its over and you get back to camp beers, cocktails, and life are way better.


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## climber-420 (Jan 10, 2014)

Go to work at The Home Depot. Try to stay as long as you can. You will then want to be a river guide.


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## mikesee (Aug 4, 2012)

Get in a small boat (kayak, IK, whatever) and run the same rapids a few times. Your current perch will seem umpteen times safer afterwards.


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## swell6 (Jan 17, 2014)

mikesee said:


> Get in a small boat (kayak, IK, whatever) and run the same rapids a few times. Your current perch will seem umpteen times safer afterwards.


It's funny you say this. I was duckying the same river that I train on a majority of the time, and I actually felt safer. Something about falling in vs falling out. Of course, I was following a experienced guide in a raft so choosing a line was easy as pie.


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## LSB (Mar 23, 2004)

If youre not just a little bit scared youre not really having fun.


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## glenn (May 13, 2009)

Are you having fun along with the fear? If it's not enjoyable at all you need to find something else. It's a lot of abuse for your body and wallet if you aren't loving it. Being scared is normal and healthy and will definitely mellow out as you get used to the runs, the water drops to summer flows and you get some more time under your belt.


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## whitewater_fishin (Mar 28, 2012)

i was a raft guide for 10-ish years. There are a few rapids that scared me every time i ran them, and i ran those rapids litterally over 1000 times. They still scare me.

That's what makes it fun. It will take 2-3 seasons before it really starts to slow down for you.

Learn from your mistakes, and figure out a way to focus the fear.


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## Anchorless (Aug 3, 2010)

They're not going to stick you on the big runs as a first year raft guide. Stick with it and get your practice on the mellow Class III runs, build your skills and confidence, and then see if you get any more comfortable.


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## benpetri (Jul 2, 2004)

It sounds like you enjoy it enough, so I think you just need to keep getting more experience. Rafting and kayaking are sports with steep learning curves when you're first getting started, and that's why a lot of people don't keep with it. But once you get over that first hump and gained more paddling and river reading skills, and some mishap recovery or rescue experience, your confidence should improve. A little fear is good in that it gives you a healthy respect for the river, but it shouldn't be an overwhelming emotion.


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## swell6 (Jan 17, 2014)

One thing I should mention about my swimming experience on the Cheat is that we were being taught to R1 that day, after learning to J-stroke the previous day. The instructors mentioned that "R1ing" isn't a skill that many paddle companies teach anymore. From a curiosity standpoint, Is this true?


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## coloradopaddler (Jun 16, 2005)

Knowing how to paddle the raft by yourself wouldn't be a bad skill to have, especially after you dump truck all of your custies out! Don't know that a J stroke would be very effective in a raft though.


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## TriBri1 (Nov 15, 2011)

I was never taught to R1, then after a few years of guiding the owner had all the customers get out and a higher takeout and I had to R1 through the last mile or so of river. I figured it out, but it was all about trail and error.

The questions has been asked, but not answered. Are you enjoying training along with the fear or are you just wishing that you were off the river? Everyone is scared when they first learn to raft/kayak/whatever. Working through that is part of the excitement.

When I went through training I was nervous every time I was on the stick and didn't get over that until partway through my first season. Even after 12 seasons I am still nervous hitting the meat of anything on the first few runs of the season.


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## laterwagged (Sep 29, 2011)

RE: Fear - it will get better, but the truth is it will always be with you. Also, it gets worse when you have people on your raft relying on you. I would think long and hard about how much you want to be a guide. I have respect for every rapid that I run. This respect comes from a measure of fear. (Cliche incoming) Remember that courage isn't possible without fear.

RE: R1 - We had a tube blow out on a raft on the Hood River (Class III section) a couple weeks ago. It was bad enough that there was no way to repair it to be inflatable so we duct taped the PVC closed and one of the other guides R1'd it like a canoe by sitting on the opposite tube.

R1 experience isn't mandatory, but like all skills in whitewater, it isn't going to hurt. There are a number of spots on PNW rivers where portages by clients means R1ing (or lining) around some sort of feature.

Did they have you R1ing from the stern? Bow? Or from center (on a tube)?


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## restrac2000 (Mar 6, 2008)

I categorize fear like stress, that which makes me perform and mitigate risk more effectively and that which harms my efforts. Having a healthy respect for the objective and subjective hazards is the way to float for life.

I think the one thing we often fail to do as a recreational communities is acknowledge that each of us has different thresholds for safety and risk. Analyzing that personal boundary ahead of time as a guide will only help you survive and thrive in the job. Unfortunately, no one but yourself will know what those limits are and how comfortable you are skirting those boundaries. 

As well....dividing fear into 1) fear of danger to life and limb versus 2) fear of experiencing discomfort is an important distinction I have had in the outdoors. Knowing that line as a professional is pivotal. You can flirt a lot more with hazards that just fall into the last category.

I would spend more time with the company before deciding myself. You are focusing on training which is a key component of moving along in one's professional and avocational career in whitewater. But only good things can come from the awareness you spout here....even if it means you walk away at some point.

Phillip


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## jbolson (Apr 6, 2005)

I think fear and excitement are the same emotion, one you like (excitement) and one you don't (fear). Learn to like it or give it up.

Also, you may want to practice swimming in safe conditions and learn the techniques to escape hydraulics.


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## birdman413 (Jul 16, 2013)

Stiff N' Wett said:


> Being scared and keeping your wits is what its all about. If your scared shitless during the run but then smiling and feeling alive afterwords then that's great. If your always scared and don't want more than maybe a new career is in line. Everytime i flip or go for along swim yeah its really scary but when its over and you get back to camp beers, cocktails, and life are way better.


the best part is fighting back the waves of panic with a smile!


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## climbdenali (Apr 2, 2006)

I agree with previous posters that rational fear can be healthy. On the other hand, there's something to be said for the confidence that a guide exudes bringing out the best in his (or her) crew. I know several former guides who I think are great guides, but who fell more into the "afraid" category, and that affected their guiding, and ultimately led them away from guiding whitewater.

When I started guiding, I was more from a climbing background. I saw the safety in the two sports as being opposite in a couple of ways. First, the protection: in climbing, once you fall, there's nothing to do except hope that the systems you built in beforehand were adequate. In boating, there's not a lot you can do until things go downhill. Now, obviously, we can definitely set up safety in boating, especially on bigger stuff. My views have evolved with experience, but the point remains that learning how to swim, how to flip, and how to recover is important stuff! To me, it's as important as learning to place cams and nuts effectively. 

Second, I felt that with climbing, you could almost always back down, take a rest, try again, back up, and so forth, until you felt you had it dialed. In boating, once you hit that glassy water at the horizon line, you're all in, and you'd better follow through. I still look at it that way sometimes. When I get that feeling of, "hmmm, I wonder how this is going to go?" but I'm already committed, my approach is to force that down, and focus on the matters at hand. Being afraid once you're committed doesn't help me a whole lot.

Now, a healthy respect and fear before being committed to running a rapid is good. Never feel ashamed, or wrong or whatever for deciding to walk a rapid. I think it takes more guts in some circumstances to walk away than it does to shove off and run it against your better judgement.

I like Restrac's point:


> dividing fear into 1) fear of danger to life and limb versus 2) fear of experiencing discomfort is an important distinction


Learning to differentiate between the two can be difficult, but is so important.

Alright, enough babble. As to your original question, I think since you're already three weeks into the training, you might as well stick it out til the end of training and decide then, that is, unless you're just miserable with it. If you're so afraid that you hate it, then stop, but if you like it and have some fear at the same time, might as well at least finish training and see how it goes for a bit. If the latter is the case, my guess is that that fear will mellow with time, experience, and skills.

Good Luck!


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## swell6 (Jan 17, 2014)

Thanks for all the input guys.

To clarify, I am having fun, and enjoying myself. After I survive a rapid usually I have a grin on my face. Sometimes I'm even talking to myself in my head during a rapid, "oh shit, oh shit, hell yeah, All right!!) Once I'm done a rapid. The thing is, on the way to the Cheat the other day, the fear just consumed me. I had heard that the rapids were big, and that we were gonna swim alot. Heading into an experience like that sucks, no if, ands, or buts about it (from my perspective). I think once I begin working for the company, and working the same rivers, I'll be able to control staying near my comfort zone a bit better and chipping away at my skills, vs. jumping into water that I'm super uncomfortable with. That make sense?

With all that being said, I think I'm going to like rafting 10x more once I get it down. I'm a motorcyclist and the first month or two on the roads I was pretty nervous. So nervous that it made me not want to go out that much. Once I learned a bit though, I was out riding more and more, building that confidence and enjoying it so much more. With that being said, I still get pretty nervous right before I get on the bike knowing that I'm about to do something pretty risky..


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## LSB (Mar 23, 2004)

Another thing about those rivers back east is that there are a lot of undercuts. 
That raises the puckerfactor plenty.
Knowing which way to swim in all those rapids is really important. 
That beta should come from the trainers. They will be able to tell you where the dangerous stuff is in every rapid.
But hey, at least the water is warm and the rapids are pool drops right?


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## Quiggle (Nov 18, 2012)

It could be a lot of things, Your guides trying to scare you, every other trainee is a little nervous too so that doesn't help boost you confidence. As for swimming, swimming is part of rafting, that initial shock you get when you enter the spring run off will go away. Soon you will instantly be looking for your boat and your customers as you climbing back in your boat. You won't have to think about how scared you are, it will just be second nature. like said above fun and scared run hand and hand. My girlfriend jokes that my face looks exactly the same when I'm scared and when I'm having fun.

My first year guiding was on the Kern River in California. Awesome River with some of the biggest rapids I've ever seen, even 20 rivers later. Many of them like Sock em dog and Vortex into gauntlet still scare the shit out of me. There is something to be said about taking customers that probably haven't walked on any thing but the sidewalk for years down a section of river that they will remember for a long time. Even more to be said about flipping in a rapid commercially, getting everybody back and drinking beer with them when the trips over.

keep with it, It will be an awesome summer!!!


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## Learch (Jul 12, 2010)

You won't be scared for long. Being that you don't have a lot of experience, I'd call your reactions pretty normal. It is scary the first few times out. I get overconfident on the rivers I paddle a lot, but when I paddle something I have never or seldom run I am much more cautious and I get coffee grounds in the stomach kind of feelings. 
I think the butterflies will go away if you choose to stick with it. I would try the same runs on your personal time when you don't have the pressure to perform in front of employers and customers. I haven't commercially guided, but I love to take paddle teams of new people down local runs. I am always a little more on edge with those groups because I care about them and they don't know what I know.


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## rioperro (Jan 11, 2013)

97% total tranquility. 3% sheer terror. Any day on the river is a good day.


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## caverdan (Aug 27, 2004)

Rafting is Disneyland with a death factor. 

Lots of good advice given so far. Hang in there. The good things in life don't come easy. Even if you don't go on to be a guide......finish your training. You will always kick yourself if you don't.


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## Schutzie (Feb 5, 2013)

I forget who said it but it's especially true with guides;
If you aren't afraid you haven't fully grasped the situation.

When we were training new guides we were on the lookout for the macho dudes, the ones who were full of bluster and testosterone. The ones who weren't nervous. They were the dangerous ones. They had not fully grasped just how powerful the river could be, and how powerless they were in comparison.

It's why we wear life jackets and helmets. Always. 
I mean, they call them life jackets for a reason.

It appears to me that you have a grasp on the situation.

Concentrate on learning to read the river. Learn what the river bed looks like based on what the water is doing and what the banks look like. What does it mean when you see water pouring into a hole from down stream? Why does water form a pillow above a rock? What can you do with that information? How do you know where the main flow is? 

When you can read the river and are confident your fear will turn into respect. Then they can turn you loose on passengers. Not before.

Dude; ask questions and pay attention. You should do fine.


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## swell6 (Jan 17, 2014)

Schutzie said:


> I forget who said it but it's especially true with guides;
> If you aren't afraid you haven't fully grasped the situation.
> 
> When we were training new guides we were on the lookout for the macho dudes, the ones who were full of bluster and testosterone. The ones who weren't nervous. They were the dangerous ones. They had not fully grasped just how powerful the river could be, and how powerless they were in comparison.
> ...


 Thanks for the advice!


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## swell6 (Jan 17, 2014)

Thanks for all the input guys. I'm going to finish training and see where I am by then (the middle of May).

Why is it that most of the members here are from out West? I've seen only a few members that are from anywhere on the East Coast. Is Mountain Buzz a West Coast forum mainly or is it that there are just more rivers out there to raft?


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## glenn (May 13, 2009)

swell6 said:


> Thanks for all the input guys. I'm going to finish training and see where I am by then (the middle of May).
> 
> Why is it that most of the members here are from out West? I've seen only a few members that are from anywhere on the East Coast. Is Mountain Buzz a West Coast forum mainly or is it that there are just more rivers out there to raft?


It's mostly a Colorado forum. Boatertalk is more of an east coast forum with a couple other more region specific forums as well.


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## swell6 (Jan 17, 2014)

glenn said:


> It's mostly a Colorado forum. Boatertalk is more of an east coast forum with a couple other more region specific forums as well.


Ahhh. So I've been in enemy territory all this time without knowing...


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## glenn (May 13, 2009)

swell6 said:


> Ahhh. So I've been in enemy territory all this time without knowing...


Most have lived in a variety of the good spots. No enemies amongst river brethren.


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## Schutzie (Feb 5, 2013)

swell6 said:


> Thanks for all the input guys. I'm going to finish training and see where I am by then (the middle of May).
> 
> Why is it that most of the members here are from out West? I've seen only a few members that are from anywhere on the East Coast. Is Mountain Buzz a West Coast forum mainly or is it that there are just more rivers out there to raft?


We noted where you are from, but didn't hold it against you


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## triggle (Sep 6, 2013)

Hit the meat bro. I was scared as shit when I went over the lip of Rainey Falls in my ducky and I got pummeled taking the center line like a boss and then against the middle chute exit and went under again at the fish ladder tail out. I was in love. Happy swimming.


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