# Middle fork salmon river- need info



## natevon04 (Mar 3, 2014)

Looking for someone local to the Lewis Clark Valley that can help answer some questions I have about floating the MF late season potentially below 1.5’. Any help is appreciated though. Thanks


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## carvedog (May 11, 2005)

It sucks. Don't do it.


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## codycleve (Mar 26, 2012)

I made a pretty detailed video of most the rapids at 1.78 and dropping of the top half.. It will give you an idea of what your in for.. in the video im in a 10.5' raft


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## Riverwild (Jun 19, 2015)

That video does give you a pretty good idea what your in for. I would caution also that 1.78' is quite different than 1.5'. It might not seem like it, but it is a BIG difference. There are a number of rocks that appear at the lower flow. That being said I've had a 176R down at 1.55', and the next week after that rowed a super puma. The super puma was much easier but the big boat still did just fine. Honestly it's not something I would attempt unless you either know the river very well OR you have a high tolerance for pain and love tech low water boating at it's best.


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## Conundrum (Aug 23, 2004)

I recommend good shoes.


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## FatmanZ (Sep 15, 2004)

The upper section at low flows is a lot of work but also an amazing experience. I've run it a couple times at flows lower than 1.5' and wouldn't hesitate to do it again. Just pack light (and then go thru your stuff and get rid of more), follow all the other suggestions (soft tubs, spin to win, etc) and be ready for a couple low mileage heavy effort days. ELF boating on the Arkansas and Poudre rivers in Colorado make for some great training runs. 

IF in doubt, heed CarveKitty's solid advice and bounce over to the Main - that is never too low.


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## carvedog (May 11, 2005)

Soooo....some people gave you seriousish replies. What is your date? riverwild is right about 1.5, the closer it gets to that magical and painful number the harder it gets. 1.8 or 1.7 is pretty easy by comparison. It all depends on your threshold.


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## natevon04 (Mar 3, 2014)

No date yet just trying to see what we’re up against and start putting in next year. We’ve done a ton of back country fly fishing all over Idaho and I can’t believe i haven’t floated this section yet. Can someone help me understand how it works if you try to go after the permit season ends in September?


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## natevon04 (Mar 3, 2014)

codycleve said:


> I made a pretty detailed video of most the rapids at 1.78 and dropping of the top half.. It will give you an idea of what your in for.. in the video im in a 10.5' raft


Cool video. Thanks!


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## carvedog (May 11, 2005)

natevon04 said:


> No date yet just trying to see what we’re up against and start putting in next year. We’ve done a ton of back country fly fishing all over Idaho and I can’t believe i haven’t floated this section yet. Can someone help me understand how it works if you try to go after the permit season ends in September?


You always need a permit. They are easy to get in October. You still need to take all the required gear. You will be asked to sign the permit that says you will do all the things they ask like pack out all ashes, garbage, poop etc. 
Camps are much less likely to be assigned that time of year. Maximum stay is 8 days.


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## OregonianRG (Jun 14, 2010)

Great video. Good job.


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## carvedog (May 11, 2005)

I watched way more of that video than I should have for being at work. Great job. To the OP. Flow in the video is somewhere around 700cfs. At 1.5 or below you are dealing under 500 cfs. (Measured at MF Lodge at mile 33, so even less up top.) I go every chance I get, but I have also seen people get absolutely wrecked in the first 8 miles. Conversions courtesy this webpage. https://www.dreamflows.com/rates/gauge.206.php


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## dirtbagkayaker (Oct 29, 2008)

natevon04 said:


> Can someone help me understand how it works if you try to go after the permit season ends in September?


Sorry you live in Lewiston. I spent the first 33 years of my life in the valley. Its an SOB to get a permit. The Sept permits usually open up. The water is super low so you need to know your shit when it comes to lines in the shallow rapids. You need to go lite and cover distance every day in the late season and prepare to be floating in the the dark or braking ice in the flats. Its slow going with about 10 hours of light and long ass cold nites. You can't find enough fire wood but you don't need ice.


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## JakeH (Nov 1, 2003)

codycleve said:


> I made a pretty detailed video of most the rapids at 1.78 and dropping of the top half.. It will give you an idea of what your in for.. in the video im in a 10.5' raft


Great video Cody


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## MT4Runner (Apr 6, 2012)

dirtbagkayaker said:


> Sorry you live in Lewiston. I spent the first 33 years of my life in the valley. Its an SOB to get a permit. The Sept permits usually open up. The water is super low so you need to know your shit when it comes to lines in the shallow rapids.


Is it still read and run, or do you need to actually know the specific lines?



> You need to go lite and cover distance every day in the late season and prepare to be floating in the the dark or braking ice in the flats. Its slow going with about 10 hours of light and long ass cold nites. You can't find enough fire wood but you don't need ice.


When does ice generally start forming--October? Sounds like a hot tent would be the ticket.

Is it just a suffer-fest or still worth doing...especially if one doesn't fish?


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## carvedog (May 11, 2005)

MT4Runner said:


> Is it still read and run, or do you need to actually know the specific lines?


Lines you say?? Like there is more than one? Ha, ha, ha, ha...
I guess in the sense that there is a less painful line and then lots of OMG how in the Frick are we getting out of this?
Particularly in the first ten miles. Does not necessarily apply at over 600 cfs. And some people think below a 1,000 cfs is low.



MT4Runner said:


> When does ice generally start forming--October? Sounds like a hot tent would be the ticket.
> Is it just a suffer-fest or still worth doing...especially if one doesn't fish?


What you do in your own tent is your own deal dude.

I have seen it resemble a suffer-fest and also had it be glorious. The coldest I have ever been has been in October on the Middle Fork. One year five out of seven days pretty hard rain. Last day rain so hard it brought the river up to 4 feet. Being October 10th or so, it wasn't a warm rain either. All day. Never let up. By then we were all out of dry clothes anyway. Not that it would have mattered. I actually burned books to get the fire going and we almost ran out of propane from running the stove to let the girls warm their hands when the fire got put out again.

In other news the canyon was just about as beautiful as it gets in mid October. Unbelievable layers of yellows and reds. Every single bush at the mouth of Loon was yellow. Foul weather and I was cold, but still so in awe of how different the canyon looked. 
River won't freeze until it stays below 32 during the day. 

Not sure if that helps, but it's what I have.


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