# Help me decide between Sotar and Maravia



## Bryan (Feb 3, 2005)

So, I am driving myself and my wife nuts trying to decide on whether to buy a new 15ft Maravia or 15'6" Sotar for us and our two kids and dog.
After hours of research and reading through old MB threads I am still up in the air.
Any opinions could be helpful, I understand that both boats are great and both have 10 yr warranties and need to be sent back to the factory for warranty to be honored.
Sotar: 
Pros
1.) Thick and durable 3000 denier weight urethane fabric yet lighter than urethane coated PVC. 
2.) Custom sizing and color options. Not super crazy about any of the colors though. We can't agree on any of them. They don't have any more of the tan Fabric which we both actually liked. 
3.) Boat known for tracking well,Floor is curved up front and rear adding to the kick and less drag. Also has custom option for SB floor draining.
speed.
4.) Boat is stiff when inflated which I like.
5.) 15 ft model can be stretched 6" at no additional cost.
6.) Custom tube diameter options of either 21" or 22" at no extra charge.
Cons
Boat has to be sent back to Factory in oregon for Warranty repairs. I am in Colorado.

Maravia:
Pros
1.)Urethane coated PVC known for its durability, but heavy.
2.)Smooth floor which makes it nimble in the water. I hear it tracks well also?
3.)I see many more Maravias on the water here in Colorado and few Sotars making me think that at least most people feel it's a better or best raft out there.
3.)Stiff when fully inflated.
4.)Nice color choices, wif and I both like the dark green.

Cons
1.) heavier by approx. 20-25lbs.
2.) Urethane coating makes patching slightly more difficult.
3.) Floor is PVC and not coated with Urethane.
4.) have read that Urethane can crack over time.
5.) needs to be shipped back to Maravia in Idaho for warranty work.

Anybody got anything else to add to that can perhaps push us in a single direction. 

I have ruled out,
Aire due to zipper issues and weight. I spend a lot of time in silty water and don't want floor or zipper issues to deal with.
NRS due to lack of research that they will stand the test of time and be a 20yr or more boat. I like the looks of the boats though.
Hyside ?? Expensive, no fall sale that i have found and don't know much about the boat. Glued Hypalon??

Thanks


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## pcrawford (Apr 13, 2005)

ligher is nice if you have a carry it with your wife. Also dark green is going to get damn hot on a desert float trip. You may want to think about that...


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## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

Sotar is known for superior performance. It is pretty much the best handling raft out there. It only has a 5 year warranty, not 10. Have you found a local rep to get a discount through?


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## Bryan (Feb 3, 2005)

They now offer 10yr warranty for non commercial. I was going straight from factory for 20% off unless you know of a better deal.


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## Bryan (Feb 3, 2005)

Pcrawford. 
Dark green cold be a little warm for kiddie in the desert. 
Sotar is coming out with a Kelley green in a couple months but I can't get my head around what that will look like on a raft. The love the pastels at sotar. Wonder who decides on the colors?


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## mttodd (Jan 29, 2009)

Both are top-notch units, and you will be happy with either. A note about the maravia floors, all of the diminishing tube series have rockered floors. They used a single pleat in years past on the top of the floor, this year they used two and have made it contour perfectly with the rise if the diminishing tube. I wish I had waited one more year to buy. I had the floor on my Zephyr coated with urethane, and it is the best upgrade that you can do to a maravia. I also had the bottom of the tubes second coated with the same floor gray, looks sharp, but not really needed. The patching process is the same as with any urethane boat. The drop stich floor is by far the standout feature maravia has going for them. Sotars do roll up easier, no argument there. My first set of cat tubes were the dark green and they weren't any hotter than a blue set. Good luck, and buy local!


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## kazak4x4 (May 25, 2009)

My boat is green, went through Deso and Yampa in the summer, no problems on the heat. Sometimes I'd spray it with river water to be a bit cooler. But I love to be different than the boring blue!

Maravia floor is bomber! No need to top it off during the day. And the diminishing tubes rock, more space for my family and cargo and punching waves is simple.

Bryan, I sent you a PM with a much longer version of my reply.

Alex


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## sarahkonamojo (May 20, 2004)

Maravia WILL over time develop tiny pin holes due to the stiff nature of the material. If you can keep the boat inflated all the times, it won't be an issue.
Both nice boats. Color is important. It just is.


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## Bryan (Feb 3, 2005)

I should add Sotar offers drop stitch floor same as Maravia from same factory in PVC. It is cheaper than I-beam floor in Urethane standard. They have increase the denier strength and thickness in their drop stitch floor from maravias version. Just found this out today from Sotar.


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## caseybailey (Mar 11, 2008)

Interesting that you couldn't find anything on NRS being a 20 yr. boat. As far as glued hypalon goes, it is tried and true when it comes to durability. Both Sotar and Maravia have had longevity issues in the past, but I hear those have been recitfied in the recent years. (You will undoubtedly hear of 20 year boats from these companies, but they are the exception.) That said, If I were buying strictly on warranty, I'd get an Aire. If I had the million dollar magic wand, I'd buy either an Avon, a Hyside or a NRS.


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## lhowemt (Apr 5, 2007)

sarahkonamojo said:


> Maravia WILL over time develop tiny pin holes


People say this about Sotar also. I see lots of older boats, both brands, around.


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## kazak4x4 (May 25, 2009)

sarahkonamojo said:


> Maravia WILL over time develop tiny pin holes due to the stiff nature of the material.


That's what the 10 year warranty is for


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## raftus (Jul 20, 2005)

I've spent a fair bit of time guiding Maravias (as well as Hyside, NRS, Star, Avon, Domar, Riken, AIRE and probably one or two I'm forgetting). I enjoyed R2ing a Spider (drops waterfalls really well), but otherwise didn't like commercially guiding their boats. When guiding I specifically had issues with pinholes leaks, their thwarts attachment system bruising and bashing my shin when paddle boat guiding, and I didn't like how they handled - but their handling is only slightly different from other boats and I know other guides who like them.

Hyside and Avon make great boats and glued Hypalon had proven itself as being the most reliable raft technology over time. Glued hypalon seams are very durable and the material isn't prone to pinhole leaks. Welded PVC seams seem and probably will prove to be bomb proof, but they don't have the 40 history of performance that glued hypalon does.

I have the least experience with SOTAR. All I can really say about them is that their boats are fast (usually paddled by winning teams at whitewater races) and good looking. Urethane is very abrasion resistant and slippery over rocks. SOTAR's cat tubes are extremely well regarded among class V catarafters. I haven't spent enough time guiding them to have a well developed opinion.


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## Bryan (Feb 3, 2005)

Good info. Raftus. Thanks


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## brandob9 (Jun 13, 2010)

sarahkonamojo said:


> Maravia WILL over time develop tiny pin holes due to the stiff nature of the material. If you can keep the boat inflated all the times, it won't be an issue.


Are you saying that the pinholes are developing at the places where the boat is folded and that a constantly inflated boat doesn't suffer that problem?


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## carvedog (May 11, 2005)

sarahkonamojo said:


> Maravia WILL over time develop tiny pin holes due to the stiff nature of the material. If you can keep the boat inflated all the times, it won't be an issue.
> Both nice boats. Color is important. It just is.


I have a twenty yr old Maravia that gets rolled all the time. I do not have pinholes. I do lots of low water boating and had to do some patches this spring after getting on some water early. I soaped my whole boat down after we got off the river and didn't find any holes of any kind. 

Do you have a Maravia? How does this cause pinholes? The material is quite tough and thick. How does a fold equal pinholes.

Color me confused.

To the OP. I love my boat and wouldn't hesitate to get another. Sotars seem good too, but I haven't used them to give an opinion.


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## mgpaddler (May 3, 2009)

I have owned several Maravia's since the late 80's and have not experienced any issues. I have seen some pin hole issues arise with older Maravia floors in that the crease in the area between the flat grommeted section and the rise of the floor tended to be affected. I think that has been addressed with a taped seam on all their boats now. The floor as mentioned earlier is the only material not encapsulated with urethane as well. I have also been the recipient of incredible customer service as well as seen people get their boats replaced because of cosmetic issues. At any rate, they have a 10 year warranty. I don't think you would go wrong with Sotar, Aire, Avon, or any other quality manuf. I just prefer Maravia rafts and Sotar cats.


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## cataraftgirl (Jun 5, 2009)

I've owned two Maravia Cats, and my river buddy has 2 Cats & a Williwaw that he loves. Very pleased with Maravia products. My current Cat is Teal. A really cool looking boat. Maravia will do a two color fade for you if you want.
I was on the Middle Fork last month and met the owner of Solitude Outfitters. They had all teal rafts. When I remarked on the awesome color, he told me that he had come up with the teal color 8 years ago with the Maravia folks. Good call dude !!!! It's such an interesting color.... not our usual blue/yellow/gray.
KJ


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## Bryan (Feb 3, 2005)

Cataraftgirl,
I would like to see a picture of your teal cat when you get a chance,
Thanks,


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## cataraftgirl (Jun 5, 2009)

*Teal boat*

Bryan,
I'll attach a picture. I believe Alex has a teal Maravia raft also???
Good call on not going with Aire if you run silty rivers. Very nice boats, but I have personally experienced the zipper thing, and it was a major PITA. Our boating club sold the Aire raft after one season because of the maintenance issue with the zipper. Otherwise they're great boats.
I got my newest Maravia cat last fall during their sale. Saved a little money.
Good luck with your purchase.
KJ


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## Pulsefabrivergear (Oct 4, 2010)

*Get a Maravia*

Hello Bryan. I don't know if you have chosen your boat yet but I suggest the Maravia. This is my first post so there may be some mistakes.

I worked for Maravia for two years for their production Mananger George. I worked on all parts of production from welding to some painting. They use a 32oz. nylon woven pvc fabric from a company called Shelterite/Seaman's corp. All their seams are lap welded and then taped inside and out. Bullet proof seams!! They use hot air weld technoligy. They use a Miller 107 hot air welding machine.

I have attached some pics of me building my WW1.5(Williwa 1.5). I used a custom green color that looks similar to Kawaski green. They can do any paint job you can come up with.

As for the pin hole/pock mark argument- no boats develop this over the years. This does happen from time to time but it is caused by something during production and those boats don't leave the factory. I can explain this later. I have never seen any seams or their fabric leak form this pin hole theory
Feel free to PM if you have more questions. There production shop is just down the street from my house.

Get a Maravia

Ty from Pulse fab


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## carvedog (May 11, 2005)

PulseFab said:


> I have attached some pics of me building my WW1.5(Williwa 1.5). I used a custom green color that looks similar to Kawaski green. They can do any paint job you can come up with.
> 
> As for the pin hole/pock mark argument- no boats develop this over the years. This does happen from time to time but it is caused by something during production and those boats don't leave the factory. I can explain this later. I have never seen any seams or their fabric leak form this pin hole theory
> Feel free to PM if you have more questions. There production shop is just down the street from my house.
> ...


Bad Ass. Great color on a great boat. I have the Willi 2, but would love to have a little smaller for paddle boating. 

So the diamond plate looking thing??? Is the yellow a masking tape type of thing, then you sprayed/glued the gray chafe strip on and then pulled to reveal the Kawa Saki green underneath?

Very cool.


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## Pulsefabrivergear (Oct 4, 2010)

Thanks! I love this boat. 

As for the paint job, your close. What we did was have a local art shop cut out large negatives of the diamond plate section(long enough to go the length of the chafe pads and a bit wider), then painted the chafe pads with the grey. Finally we went back and picked out the little "diamonds" which stayed green under the negative. 

Little complicated but worth it in the end.

Thanks

Ty


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## Dave Frank (Oct 14, 2003)

Awesome looking boat Pulse.

I keep reading people bitching about the air zippers clogging with silt. While this does happen, it really doesn't take much maintenance to avoid, or to correct for that matter once they get sticky.


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## carvedog (May 11, 2005)

Dave Frank said:


> Awesome looking boat Pulse.
> 
> I keep reading people bitching about the air zippers clogging with silt. While this does happen, it really doesn't take much maintenance to avoid, or to correct for that matter once they get sticky.


Hey Dave.

Are you running an Aire? Seems like you guys do plenty of SW rivers. Several of my friends have Aire. I have never even seen anyone have to do anything to one. Maravia will be my first love in rafts but I have never seen anyone have an issue of any kind with an Aire while on my trips. Maybe because of the bladder they seem to need less temperature induced topoffs.


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## Bryan (Feb 3, 2005)

Ty,
Thanks for your info. 
That is one sweet looking paint job.
I have not made up my mind yet but still leaning towards Sotar due to custom options available at no extra cost.
Let's face it, they are both sick boats. My main reasoning for choosing Sotar right now is that they will custom build my boat now to my specs with either drop stitch floor, from same factory as Maravia but thicker PVC. The boat material is thicker than Maravia and not encapsulated in Urethane paint to give it durability, Sotars seven chamber stern and bow seems like a sweet design, and I can add 6" to their 15ft boat making it 15'6" at no extra charge. I can also increase tube diameter by 1" at no charge.
And the fall sale from maravia only pertains to their in stock boats, which give me no room for customizing my raft. Sotar as I said will build my boat after I order it, and price will be 20% off now through the 15th of Oct.
It feels a little odd going with Sotar since I have had so much positive feedback on Maravia's from you folks and I have spent time on the Middle Fork and Westwater with a buddy that rows and loves his Maravia. I wish I could find a few more people that have owned Sotars to give me some input hereto go on. 
I have to go with my gut feeling here and after weighing all the pros and cons, Sotar keeps coming out on top. I may regret it later but at least we'll have someone here to give some beta next time this conversation arrises.:shock:


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## Pulsefabrivergear (Oct 4, 2010)

They are both great boats! I know a lot of guys up in Washington who love their Sotars! Well at least you did your home work and found the best deal possible.
As for the Fall sale at Cascade/Maravia, your right. They don't include any custom work in the sale and it sounds like you have talked with the guys at Sotar to get the story from the horse's mouth as they say. Nice work. 

Keep in touch through posts or PM if somethings comes up. Take care


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## kazak4x4 (May 25, 2009)

I got my boat last year, I got the sale price and custom design. Sounds like you did a lot of talking to Sotar folks. I'd call maravia and talk more to them, maybe even forward this post to them.

But it sounds like you made up your mind. I doubt you could go wrong either way.

Alex


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## sealion (Oct 13, 2008)

FWIW:

I have a Sotar from 1995-I bought it used from a local outfitter in Moab in 2001. I have used it on 4 25-30 day grands, 5 or 6 Cat trips, a deso, some moab dailys a middle fork and a Salt. It has this problem of the fabric getting bubbles whenits hot(like in the summer on river trips). If I don't pop the bubbles they will keep getting bigger.

When I first called them about this in 2001, they said it was a problem with some of their fabric from the supplier. The solution was to get this 3-part set of liquids to fix it. The bubble was the outer layer of the yellow plastic/urethane/whatever it was. It would expose the woven fabric(white)underneath when the bubble was peeled off.

The stuff is about $120 for the undercoat stuff, and the two topcoats, one clear, the other colored like your boat(yellow in my case) Over the years I have ordered 3 sets of this stuff to fix the bubbles that keep showing up. ONce repaired, though, that spot never bubbles up again. The boat looks interesting with its bright new yellow circles over the repaired areas. Other than that, it holds up well in big water, is carryable by myself-easier with two, holds air well-the only leaks are the valves which I have managed to clean up and fix, and the slow leaks from unrepaired-popped bubbles.

I was not impressed with them making me pay for the stuff to fix it. I understand that since it was used commercially for 5 years that there was no warranty to me when I got it. They did work with me to make sure I understood the repair process so I would have good results. They say it's not happening anymore.....

I got the boat for under 2 grand, and will probably use it for another 10 years.

Dave


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## Bryan (Feb 3, 2005)

Good idea Alex, i think I'll forward this conversation to the folks at Maravia and Sotar and see if they want to chime in in on this.


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## kazak4x4 (May 25, 2009)

By the way, I forgot to mention, when I picked up my new boat from the factory, I picked it up in a Honda Civic! It fit perfect in there, folded up and everything. So ya a Maravia can be folded up tight, I just don't think it's a good practice to do it often.


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## Bryan (Feb 3, 2005)

Dave,
Thanks for chiming in with your experience with Sotar and the fabric bubbling.
I will try and find out if this is still an ongoing issue.
How does the boat row and handle big water? Does it track well? Anything you would change about the boat.
Thanks,
Bryan


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## Bryan (Feb 3, 2005)

I'm still on the fence and have 10 more days to decide before Sotars fall sale ends and Maravia's sale is running until their stock is depleted.


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## Bryan (Feb 3, 2005)

So, after pondering this question for days and logging hours on the internet and telephone with both Maravia and Sotar, I have decided to go with Maravia.
Obviously this was not an easy decision for me because both boats have their attributes and down falls. I loved the fact that Sotars were lighter than Maravia by at least 20 pounds in the 16ft lengths and I also liked all the custom options available from Sotar, and the fact they would build my boat after I ordered it to my specs. 
The Maravia I went with is a 16 ft Typhoon. This is a diminishing tube version or the Williwaw 2. The boat should handle like a 15 footer due to short water line, and the drop stitch floor should be a benefit for tricky last minute moves in this beast.
The choice has been made and the boat should be here in Colorado by Monday. Color, Royal blue. Chris at Maravia explained that the lighter the color, the less it shows dirt. Important since Maravias are known for looking like pigs after being on the water for a few days.
I also chose Maravia for a couple other reasons. One, their diminishing tube boat was several hundred dollars cheaper than the diminishing tube boat by Sotar. The other reason and really the main reason was that Maravia outsources their warranty work locally here in Colorado to Inflatable Technologies. Sotar requires you to get the boat back to Oregon for warranty work.
I hope tat this has been helpful to others finding themselves in my position.
I can't wait to get the boat on the water next spring to see how she performs. I will report back anything I think might be helpful.
Cheers, and thanks for everyones input.


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## raftus (Jul 20, 2005)

Congratulations on the new boat! It will be a source of joy for decades to come. Post some pictures when you break her in. Shoshone is still running!


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## Dave Frank (Oct 14, 2003)

Surely you're not going to wait until spring to try it on the water?


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## kazak4x4 (May 25, 2009)

I got my boat the exact same time as you did (and the exact boat too!) and I waited until next year to try it out. It sat in my basement fully inflated while I worked on it through out the winter. I wish I would have tried it before putting it in the basement, looking back now. The season isn't over yet, take her out.

And congrats on the new boat, you will really enjoy it I have no doubts. Chris is a cool guy at Maravia, I've met him a few times. You will feel like you are well taken care of by maravia people.

Alex


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## Bryan (Feb 3, 2005)

I am gonna try and get her out at least once before storing for the winter. Seems like winter is approaching fast here in Co. Maybe Shoshone or upper C just to get a feel of how the boat handles.


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## sealion (Oct 13, 2008)

Been out of town working. Glad you finally got off the pot!! Enjoy the new toy- I'm sure you'll get 20 years out of it.

As for the Sotar, I worked for a company on the grand that use d Wings and sotars, and last I heard the bubbling issue was a one time thing. (not the kind of thing that can be ongoing and stay in business) 

As for handling in big water, like I said its been down a few grands and Cat at 21,000, and like many boats, if you are square to the big stuff, it works just fine. I also run my self bailer floor REALLY SOFT. Like so soft that when you step in the front your foot gets wet if you keep it in one space for long. this avoids the beach ball effect- you know, you hold a beach ball under water and it wants to wobble its way to the surface. Your boat does the same thing if you have a hard floor-especially in the old self bailers where the floor was the same level as the bottom of the tubes. I think they are making newer boats where the the floor starts part way up the inside of the boat. I may not be describing this very well, but you want the tubes on the water so the boat tracks, if the floor is puffy, the tubes aren't the main thing on the water and you get the beach ball effect. 

A good place to observe this is in the tail waves of rapids with serious eddy action-like the riffles below the Little Colorado on the grand- if your boat is getting pushed off into the eddys against your will, your floor is too hard. I have to credit Jimbo Tichenor with this tip. Guiding for 40 years now, I asked him what was up with my boat, or I was doing some whinging and he dropped the aside "Floors' too hard" and when I let out a bunch of air, he said "Softer". Got to say it did the trick.

I have friends who I can not get to run their floor as soft as I do. They flip more than I prefer to. Knock on wood, so far one row flip with 30+ trips in Cat over 30k-although many of those were in bucket boats that by the time I got through Big Drop 2 they were pretty full of water and pretty hard to flip at that point. All but 3 of those were pre claw, so who knows. I've felt I do better when lucky than good.


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## Wavester (Jul 2, 2010)

*Maravias*

Good boats but have fun trying to fold it. Maravias don't roll they fold, every one I have helped fold gets wrapped up in a tarp because they don't fit in a boat bag for their respective size. Also imo a 16' boat with diminishing tubes handles like a...16' boat.



Bryan said:


> So, after pondering this question for days and logging hours on the internet and telephone with both Maravia and Sotar, I have decided to go with Maravia.
> Obviously this was not an easy decision for me because both boats have their attributes and down falls. I loved the fact that Sotars were lighter than Maravia by at least 20 pounds in the 16ft lengths and I also liked all the custom options available from Sotar, and the fact they would build my boat after I ordered it to my specs.
> The Maravia I went with is a 16 ft Typhoon. This is a diminishing tube version or the Williwaw 2. The boat should handle like a 15 footer due to short water line, and the drop stitch floor should be a benefit for tricky last minute moves in this beast.
> The choice has been made and the boat should be here in Colorado by Monday. Color, Royal blue. Chris at Maravia explained that the lighter the color, the less it shows dirt. Important since Maravias are known for looking like pigs after being on the water for a few days.
> ...


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## Osseous (Jan 13, 2012)

Hey Bryan- Wondering if you could give us an update on your boat? I'm in a similar situation right now, trying to choose between these two brands for mostly the same reasons you were. I'm wondering if you have rowed Shoshone in your boat and how that length of boat handled in that (at least this year!) tight section? I'm also in Evergreen- you may see me towing my tan Sotar cat around sometime- Jeff


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## idahofloater (Feb 23, 2011)

I own both a sotar (15 years old) and a maravia (13 years old) Both are sweet boats and you can't go too wrong with either. My .02

Pros
1.)Urethane coated PVC known for its durability, but heavy.

No real different in weight differenced noticed when actually on the river.

2.)Smooth floor which makes it nimble in the water. I hear it tracks well also?
Maravia floors are the bomb, if you use them properly. Tracking, turning, and bailing rate can all be somewhat controlled by how you lace the floor and how much air pressure you put in the floor. As with all drop stich floors, if you over inflate them they will develop pinholes. Maravia recomends 1.5 to 2.0 psi. Most ppl way over inflate them and cause thier own problems with the floor. My floor holds air all weekend and its 13 years old. My sotar I-Beam has blown once and is repaired. Sotar tracks better due to I-beam but don't do well when crossing strong currents in must move rapids.

3.)I see many more Maravias on the water here in Colorado and few Sotars making me think that at least most people feel it's a better or best raft out there.
Shouldn't even be a consideration in my book.

3.)Stiff when fully inflated.
Both boat can be adjusted easily by air pressure. You will find times when you want a flexi boat (ie Low rocky h2O and big rolling wave trains) and other times you may go stiff. When ya gota pound out 15 miles of lake.

4.)Nice color choices, wif and I both like the dark green.
Prefference.

Cons
1.) heavier by approx. 20-25lbs.
Thats just splitting hairs here. I have never heard anyone say, "only if my boat was 30 lbs lighter" maybe 50 or 100 would make a bigger difference

2.) Urethane coating makes patching slightly more difficult.
If I had to make a river patch, I would rather do it on my maravia. But really both boats a very easy to patch.

3.) Floor is PVC and not coated with Urethane.
The PVC floor is coated with stock urethane, not maravia urethane. You can apply new coats of urethane to floor. I have done that to the bottem of my maravia floor 3 years ago. Sotars a more difficult to apply urethane too, but still very doable

4.) have read that Urethane can crack over time.
I would disagree here and say that the cracks in tubes on both boats come from poor care. Maravia boats don't like to be folded and if done poorly will cause damage to both types of boats. Sotar boats are a bit better about folding. If you need a boat that will be folded often consider a rubber boat.

5.) needs to be shipped back to Maravia in Idaho for warranty work.
Not always ture. I believe that there are supported repair facilities in CO. and really you probabily wont need repair work for either boat. 

Both are solid boats you can't go wrong with either boat. Just be careful out there and have fun. My "prefference" is maravia. My sotar only goes out with a friend needs a boat. But I'd never sell it and if my maravia dies then I would be a very happy camper to run the sotar the rest of my life. 

PS, edited to realise that I am a bit late. as mentioned about your 16' boat will run like a 16' boat only weter.


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## Anchorless (Aug 3, 2010)

Did you do Red Sox colors on purpose?


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## Bryan (Feb 3, 2005)

I've been rowing the Maravia for two seasons now. Two trips down Gates of Ladore both at lower water levels many upper C trips (one at high water for what it's worth), a couple Sa Juan's. And several trips down Browns Canyon w at least one at high water Etc., my over all impression so far is that I have a very solid boat that will last 20 +years assuming its cared for properly. As you can see from my past trips I have not done any huge water in the boat yet, but from what can tell so far is that the boat should handle most anything you could throw at it within reason. The tracking is outstanding, and it is very nimble in both flat an whitewater. I will say that with my Typhoon being over 16 ft long and 7 ft wide it is a beast, and requires early set ups when heading down stream in fast moving water when loaded w gear. Probably true w any large boat. I am still getting used to rowing her and hence have put it up on a few rocks fully loaded and she so far is none the worse for it. I admitidly damn near wrapped her on pyramid rock at the bottom of zoom flume at 2,000 CFS loaded for overnight but was able to pull off a high side maneuver which meant hanging on to down river tube like spiderman bouncing while upriver tube all but fully submerged. This process took about 20 seconds and felt like forever. I think the stiffness of the Maravia fabric helped keep the boat from fully wrapping and eventually roll off the rock.
I have a wife and two kids and we pack the gear in there for long trips. This brings up the topic of how it handles being loaded w gear. I run a drop bag under front of frame with aluminum river table over the top of this for passenger seating. Behind this I have my dry box followed by rowing compartment with captains box on left and say cooler on right in custom sling from Jan at Stitchrs-N-Stuff. Then my 123 Engel fits under AAA flip seat. For gear storage in back I use again by Stitches -N-Stuff, an Everything bag. I love my set up and have had numerous complements of how clean everything fits in the boat. With the family loaded for an 8 day trip down the San Juan, we pack her to the hilt and she handles the load very well and usually seems to sit level in the water when passengers are loaded in front even w huge amounts of beer in the cooler. I do have my seat and oar towers positioned behind center of boat which looks a little odd on the river especially w such a long boat but doesn't seem to affect rowing that much. This was necessary to have three 19" compartments in my frame and 25 inches in rowing compartment which was what Mark at AAA assured me was the best set up. I deferred this decision to him since he has logged many many more river miles than myself and was going to be making my frame custom to this raft. He was right and I have no complaints about the set up, only praises (thanks Mark) I did go with the diamond plate runners for comfort. If I could make a complaint about my rig, it would be the weight of the boat and frame alone. It is virtually impossible to load and unload on the trailer without at least one other person. Preferrably you would have at least three people to trailer it at takeout. The other down side is the Maravia spray coat with grit in it stays filthy on the river and is not real easy to clean when you get home. I use a coarse straw brush to clean it when I do clean it and this helps get in between the course coating. I have two rafts, one is this Maravia Typhoon and a smaller fishing raft which is a RMR 12 ft. My kids are usually vocal when they hear we are taking the scratchy boat out ( the Maravia) because its hard on their arms an knees when climbing in and out of it. They are 5 and 8 years old and don't realize the benefits of the non skid to prevent slipping when walking in the tubes only that it is like sand paper on their skin. I like the rough coat and feel it is a plus concerning overall safety. 
I would recommend this boat and I am especially sold on the dimenishing tubes for both handeling and roominess. even if you are a purest and feel like Maravia Williwa series is the only way to go, you should at least find a diminishing tube boat and row it to feel the difference. I do feel that the boat rows like a 15 footer instead of a 16.6ft. That being said it still is 16.6 ft long and requires early set up as stated above. I should also mention that when loaded and balanced properly, she will track fairly easily in as little as 6" of water. Feel free to contact me for more specifics if you like or want photos of my set up.


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## Bryan (Feb 3, 2005)

Correction, the Maravia Typhoon is 16 ft Long and 7'6" wide.


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## dmnboater (Apr 20, 2007)

SOTAR!!!


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## RiverMamma (May 3, 2009)

Bryan said:


> Maravia:
> Pros
> 1.)Urethane coated PVC known for its durability, but heavy.
> 2.)Smooth floor which makes it nimble in the water. I hear it tracks well also?


1.) Maravia's are actually pretty darn light compared to any hypalon boat, or an AIRE. 
2.) Maravia's actually track pretty poorly, unless you run a soft floor... always run a soft floor in a Maravia.


ps. I know they are heavy, but I firmly believe that AIRE's perform best on the water. As far as the floor goes, I've dealt with allot of AIRE floors and allot of Maravia floors... a floor is a floor is a pain in the ass no matter which way you slice it. And the zippers really aren't that bad. One Maravia floor perk though is that the wider lacings are allot easier to get your fingers in to climb on top of an upside down one! Good luck choosing your boat, whatever boat you get I'm sure will treat you well. And yeah, re-consider dark colors... can be a serious issue in the hot sun.


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## treemanji (Jan 23, 2011)

You don't see many older maravias on the water if any. I know they had some serious issues in years past.


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## Bryan (Feb 3, 2005)

15 ft Hyside pro hypalon 119lbs
15 ft Maravia Williwaw 145lbs
I'd say Maravia is a fair amount heavier than its hypalon competitors.


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## RiverMamma (May 3, 2009)

I donno where you got your beta, but I didn't look up any numbers... I'm just going off of actually tossing boats around at the put in. & I toss allot of boats... You know though, honestly, I'm used to OLD hypalon. You can't tell me that an old Riken is light.


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## Bryan (Feb 3, 2005)

Gotcha. I got the info from Hyside and Maravia's websites. My Typhoon's rubber *is 160lbs. *I'm sure that is rivaled by an Aire of same size.*


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## salmonjammer (Dec 14, 2011)

*riken vs Hysides*

Our 'floating group' has two Riken and had two Hysides. No compairson! The Hysides are considerably lighter.


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## Villainista (Jul 28, 2011)

Sotars rock!!! Light fast, stiff love the 7 piece front ends. 30 LBS of weight does not matter? Ask my X jajajajajajajajajaja!!!! She was a pig of a Hyside, after I met Ramona (14 ft. Sotar) and all of her gorgeous “plastic” parts I never looked back


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## rivers2run (Jun 7, 2012)

I have owned 3 SOTAR boats I am from SW Oregon so they are very convenient compared to Maravia. About 15 or more years ago they did have delamination issues, I had a boat that delaminated. They were excellent about making it right; I was extremely impressed with their willingness to back their warranty it is one of the reasons I purchased other boats from them. They switched to another company for their fabric and those issues are behind them. I had a friend who purchased a raft he was horrible about boat inflation. He inflated one chamber to full pressure at a time sitting while in the hot sun. He did the same thing when he deflated his boat, completely let the air out of the chamber while the chamber next to it was still at full pressure. He did everytime he used his boat I tried to tell him you will blow the internal baffles, but he ignored me. Well the baffles blew he took it into SOTAR and they gave him a brand new boat. I was floored, but SOTAR is really good about backing their product, in this case I really don't believe it was a problem with their product. I am sure Maravia makes a great product as well. Love my SOTAR, their willingness to customize, and their product warranty.


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