# Salt River Tips



## KingElbear (Feb 28, 2013)

I just landed my first Salt permit in early April, Im supper excited and know that predicting flows is impossible. Im mostly interested in spending a few days in a raft or cat. Is this doable early April. At what point would it be considered not raft able and need to switch to duckies/ kayaks. Any tips for weather. Any tips are greatly appreciated.


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## craven_morhead (Feb 20, 2007)

I'm in the same boat - pulled my first Salt permit this year. Looks like the minimum for gear rafts is something between 1k and 1.2k, depending on who you ask. As for weather, sounds like "be prepared for lots of different weather" is the best advice out there.


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## cain (Dec 28, 2011)

Did the Salt about 5 years ago launching on April 1st at 1000cfs. 1 14' raft, 1 15' raft, 2 16' rafts and a 15' cat. We don't raft light so all boats fully loaded. Only problem was a little dragging at the top (more operator error LOL) I would think down to around 800 is still raftable but lighten the load. Amazing float trip, would love to do it again someday. It was a blizzard going out of Moab for a long ways, cold till our last gas stop and by time we reached the put in it was almost 70 degrees. We had great warm weather the whole trip but have heard it can change in an instant. Enjoy the trip if there's water. Last I seen snow conditions for run off are not looking very good but a lot can happen in the next few weeks.


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## pwolfehagen (Sep 18, 2018)

Cain is correct. As of now it looks pretty dire for this year. But maybe - pray for snow, invite friends and bring beer. Plan two nights. Expect temps at 60's-70's. 1000cfs and above is good. Less than 1000 gets frustrating. Mild to Wild does a nice job with shuttles.


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## adamread (Aug 31, 2011)

On the first day, take the first channel that looks like it has enough water to float on. Otherwise you'll have to bounce down some really steep cobble bars, especially at low water. If you aren't paying attention, these bars can really sucker you into committing to either a rough ride or being seriously stuck (or both). You'll be on vacation in the Sonoran desert though, so you'll enjoy it anyway.


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## j2%=c6 (May 19, 2010)

You'll be more than fine above 800.


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## cain (Dec 28, 2011)

Mild to Wild did our shuttle also with no problems. Agree with Adamread that's where we had our operator error LOL. Two nights sure seems a short trip to me we did 5 nights. It's a beautiful place.


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## blueotter (Nov 30, 2018)

What the salt dooo?


Howdy happy buzzards, I hope you are having an absolutely wonderful last couple days of 2021!!! How many of my AZ, NM duderinos are keeping an eye on this storm? May get some boatable flows on the mighty upper Salt and would love to rally for an overnight trip with some folks that want to kick...




www.mountainbuzz.com





This thread has some good info & links.

Also, this link is for Hannagan Meadows, which, I've been told, is the one to watch for an idea of what the snow level & snow water equivalent is/will be.
Sounds like we need around 10" of SWE, and right now there is about 5.



Hannagan Meadows (511) - Site Information and Reports


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## azpowell (Aug 14, 2014)

its a lot of fun at anything above 800, below 1200 pack light. I wouldn't think twice to take my cat boat down to about 650 packing backpacker light. the IK and packraft crowd will run it down to 500. I've heard stories of people running it all the way down to 250cfs but it seems like an "Adventure" at that point. 
make sure you get your WMAT permits before you get down there, they usually have a tribal cop posted up at the turn off


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## pwolfehagen (Sep 18, 2018)

Here is the basin report.


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## DidNotWinLottery (Mar 6, 2018)

No draws this year, but a 4/26 invite for the Salt


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## B4otter (Apr 20, 2009)

4/26 for the Salt? Bring roller skates...


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## KingElbear (Feb 28, 2013)

Thanks for everyone for the quick responses, I will continue to monitor this form. But this gave me the second opinion I was needed.


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## Iamquigley (Sep 6, 2020)

I also won a salt permit in the raft family!

... On May 12th 🤦‍♂️ 🤦‍♂️ 🤦‍♂️ 

Backpacking anyone?


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## GS Dave (Jun 13, 2016)

I got a salt permit for April 23.... Maybe little boats? never done the run I am hearing 2-5 days, whats the best time length?


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## cain (Dec 28, 2011)

As long as you can take. We did 5 nights and enjoyed every day and a layover.


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## cain (Dec 28, 2011)

Sorry but just noticed April 23rd. It may take you a couple weeks walking it.


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## craven_morhead (Feb 20, 2007)

I just released my March 17 permit after getting a more attractive (and solid, flow-wise) invite.


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## SheepEater (Jul 9, 2020)

You think it’ll be better before or after March 17?


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## craven_morhead (Feb 20, 2007)

To quote my Magic 8 Ball: Ask Again Later


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## jamesthomas (Sep 12, 2010)

Hate to rain on everyone’s parade but there is currently only 3.7 inches of SWE at hannigan meadows. Unless the weather pattern changes ( it is supposed to) you aren’t going to be running the Salt this year. General rule of thumb if there is 10 inches of SWE at hannigan she’s gonna go, Sheepeater, definitely before March 17th Is the better bet


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## Iamquigley (Sep 6, 2020)

jamesthomas said:


> Hate to rain on everyone’s parade but there is currently only 3.7 inches of SWE at hannigan meadows. Unless the weather pattern changes ( it is supposed to) you aren’t going to be running the Salt this year. General rule of thumb if there is 10 inches of SWE at hannigan she’s gonna go, Sheepeater, definitely before March 17th Is the better bet


Two questions from a relative newb:
1.) Where do you get the SWE measure for Hannigan and
2.) Sheepeater?


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## jamesthomas (Sep 12, 2010)

Sheepeater is another member of the buzz. Go to Arizona Snotel update report or any other state for that matter and you can look at the current SWE for your chosen river at various locations in the drainage. Your tax dollar at work.


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## Bootboy (Aug 25, 2020)

jamesthomas said:


> Hate to rain on everyone’s parade but there is currently only 3.7 inches of SWE at hannigan meadows. Unless the weather pattern changes ( it is supposed to) you aren’t going to be running the Salt this year. General rule of thumb if there is 10 inches of SWE at hannigan she’s gonna go, Sheepeater, definitely before March 17th Is the better bet


Got an invite on a March 24th launch. Here’s hoping…


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## kwagunt2001 (Jun 9, 2008)

jamesthomas said:


> Hate to rain on everyone’s parade but there is currently only 3.7 inches of SWE at hannigan meadows. Unless the weather pattern changes ( it is supposed to) you aren’t going to be running the Salt this year. General rule of thumb if there is 10 inches of SWE at hannigan she’s gonna go, Sheepeater, definitely before March 17th Is the better bet





jamesthomas said:


> Hate to rain on everyone’s parade but there is currently only 3.7 inches of SWE at hannigan meadows. Unless the weather pattern changes ( it is supposed to) you aren’t going to be running the Salt this year. General rule of thumb if there is 10 inches of SWE at hannigan she’s gonna go, Sheepeater, definitely before March 17th Is the better bet





NWCC Report Generator



So, am I misinterpreting the data? This SNOTEL indicates that today it is at 6.1 NOT 3.7 SWE. Would love to get the correct info as I am currently sitting on a 3/22 launch.

Thanks!
MC


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## kwagunt2001 (Jun 9, 2008)

kwagunt2001 said:


> NWCC Report Generator
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hannagan Meadows (511)
Arizona SNOTEL Site - 9020 ft
Reporting Frequency: Daily; Date Range: 2022-02-09 to 2022-02-16

(As of: Wed Feb 16 19:58:15 GMT-08:00 2022)
*Provisional data, subject to revision*


DateSnow
Water
Equivalent
(in)
Start of Day ValuesSnow
Depth
(in)
Start of Day ValuesPrecipitation
Accumulation
(in)
Start of Day ValuesAir
Temperature
Observed
(degF)
Start of Day ValuesAir
Temperature
Maximum
(degF)Air
Temperature
Minimum
(degF)Air
Temperature
Average
(degF)2022-02-096.0116.6355420382022-02-106.0116.6345426392022-02-116.0106.6325432412022-02-126.1106.7375625372022-02-136.196.7335525392022-02-146.196.7265420382022-02-156.196.7335031402022-02-166.186.733


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## jamesthomas (Sep 12, 2010)

The graph I usually check shows missing data as in no number. You data looks correct but I would cross reference in a few days. Good luck. A couple of good storms and you could be in the money.


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## upacreek (Mar 17, 2021)

Snow is indeed a good predictor, but there is *ALWAYS *the chance of a large rain event to bump up flows and that can last for weeks...so don't throw away a permit based on prognistication and anecdotes. Case in point, the conditions prior to my ill fated 2019 trip.


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## blueotter (Nov 30, 2018)

Iamquigley said:


> Two questions from a relative newb:
> 1.) Where do you get the SWE measure for Hannigan and
> 2.) Sheepeater?



lamquiq
check my post on the 1st page of this thread.
I put a link to the hannagan meadows site


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## adamread (Aug 31, 2011)

upacreek said:


> Snow is indeed a good predictor, but there is *ALWAYS *the chance of a large rain event to bump up flows and that can last for weeks...so don't throw away a permit based on prognistication and anecdotes. Case in point, the conditions prior to my ill fated 2019 trip.
> View attachment 73177


My 2019 Salt trip was pretty epic, but not "ill fated". We were pretty gripped, but had a fabulous adventure. I hope nobody on your trip got hurt.

In any case, the Colorado River Basin Forecast Center totally nailed it on flow predictions about a week or so out in 2019, so it's worth keeping on eye on this: SALT - CHRYSOTILE, NR (SLCA3)


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## jamesthomas (Sep 12, 2010)

Another rule of thumb for the Salt, its all fun until it goes past 7k, then you had better have your shit together.


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## kwagunt2001 (Jun 9, 2008)

Any correlation between snow totals at Sunrise Park Resort and Salt River runoff/season flow estimates? Just looking at another possible data point besides Hannagan Meadows. I see that they just received 12" of fresh powder (2/16).
Snow Report 

Does any of this make it to the Salt when it melts? Not familiar with the area. Thanks much.
MC


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## zbaird (Oct 11, 2003)

Its fun to be hoplessly optimistic when you draw a salt permit. The consolation can come in the form of a pre permit run on rain if you can set yourself up for a short notice trip, have the skills to handle wild level fluctuations and like boating in the rain. Hopefully with all the raining on your parade in this thread we'll get some more snow down there and you can tell us how great your trip was.


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## Nanko (Oct 20, 2020)

From Don Sullivan: 

Hi Everybody:

First of all, you should know that at present, the Salt is running 200 cfs, and the river is blocked by flash flood debris at Horseshoe Bend. Last summer in the monsoon season, the side creeks there flash flooded and pushed a significant amount of debris into the river, forcing the river to re-route to the right into a tamarisk thicket. No Bueno. There looks to be a narrow channel left of this I am hoping will open up when the water comes up to create a left a left run. The rest of our river crew is going down there today for their assessment and to try to move some of the debris out of the way. Right now, at 200 cfs, it is a portage. I will try to send some photos soon.


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## azpowell (Aug 14, 2014)

there it is in all its glory, and what it normally looks like...


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## jamesthomas (Sep 12, 2010)

Big storm coming for the west. Not sure if will get far enough south to effect the Salt drainage but if it does late next week might be prime for a pre permit season run. Watch the weather and if you do go keep the CF mentioned above in mind. Be safe.


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## cain (Dec 28, 2011)

Just a heads up to anybody thinking on heading down. This from Don today. Be Safe.
Hi Everybody:

Brian called last night from Horseshoe Bend on the satellite phone. He was better able to access the blockage there and which direction the water was moving, as he had an IK with him. He doesn’t think the channel to the left will open up when the water comes up and there are no potential runs through the trees either. Consequently, until something changes, it is a hundreds of yards long portage.

If you paid for a permit and want a refund and are 21 days or more away from your launch date rec.gov should give you an automatic refund when you cancel the permit. If you are within 21 days of your launch date and want a refund send me an email and I will get back to you when have talked the rec.gov about the exact process.

If you are still going I recommend small boats and not much gear.

Recent debris flows in the river corridor typically keep changing for a while after they are deposited so it is still possible a run will open up when higher water comes by. I will let you know if that happens.

Bummer.

Thanks.


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## jamesthomas (Sep 12, 2010)

Doesn’t look like it’s in wilderness as there are what looks like roads in the sat pics. Who has a backhoe/skidsteer?


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## cain (Dec 28, 2011)

Maybe I'm just confused but if it's not in the Salt Wilderness run why are they offering refunds to cancel your Salt Permit?


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## jamesthomas (Sep 12, 2010)

Wilderness starts quite a ways down from the put in. I don’t know how far down horseshoe bend is but generally wilderness areas don’t have roads and it looks like roads in the sat pics.


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## GS Dave (Jun 13, 2016)

horseshoe is at river mile 39. It looks like there are roads to the south of the bend


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## GeoRon (Jun 24, 2015)

Because they are being nice about it. You have to go through Horseshoe Bend to get to the takeout. The green arrow shows the likely distance of your portage over the debris fan.

Don has always been a straight shooter in my opinion. He will keep us posted.

*







*


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## Sawatch Rescue (Apr 17, 2010)

Horseshoe Bend is well within the Salt River Canyon Wilderness (it's at mile 21.5 - for reference, Cherry Creek is just upstream at mile 24.2 and you're well below Quartzite at 28.3).


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## jamesthomas (Sep 12, 2010)

I just looked at the map and the south side of the river is not wilderness and there is river access at horseshoe bend.


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## Sawatch Rescue (Apr 17, 2010)

jamesthomas said:


> I just looked at the map and the south side of the river is not wilderness and there is river access at horseshoe bend.


FS Road 219 isn't in the wilderness but the river is. There is a FS gate and you can't park any closer than 300 yards up the road in the dry wash.


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## jamesthomas (Sep 12, 2010)

Bummer. You seem to be familiar with the area. You been in there?


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## Nankoweap (11 mo ago)

GS Dave said:


> I got a salt permit for April 23.... Maybe little boats? never done the run I am hearing 2-5 days, whats the best time length?


I've been boating it since the 80's. Nowadays, I tend to go for later permit dates and I use a Padillac ii. When I say later I mean after April 15. I have ran it as low as 100cfs, but that was a lot of work. I have become a wuss and like the warmer weather that late April and may typically brings. I always do 4 days.


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